#ubuntu-meeting 2005-02-19
<zul> whoo...right in time
<fabbione> you have plenty of time
<zul> goody
<fabbione> it's at 15:00 UTC
<Simira> oh, that right... today. Have to get on soon then
<zul> bleah...im not use to utc yet
<dholbach> fabbione: 15 utc?
<fabbione> kernel meeting at 15:00 UTC
<dholbach> fabbione: ah alright
<fabbione> as announced on ubuntu-devel
<zul> well back to tomcat and iis then yay!
<thom> zul: have fun, hope the docs have improved since the last time i did that
<thom> ;P
<zul> they havent
<zul> but i know now who i can bother :)
<thom> doh
<thom> i should note the last time i looked was in tomcat3 era ;P
<zul> damn
<thom> best part of 5 years ago :-)
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:fabbione] : Tuesday 08 February 2005 15:00 UTC: Kernel Team meeting -- 16:00 UTC Community Council meeting -- https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/CommunityCouncilAgenda || Tuesday 15 February 2005 20:00 UTC: Technical Board -- http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/TechnicalBoardAgenda. || This is NOT #ubuntu, nor #ubuntu-devel
<zul> so who is here for the kernel meeting besides fabbione
<fabbione> lamont might be late
<zul> k
<zul> hey pitti
<pitti> Hi zul
<fabbione> hi everybody
<zul> heylo
<T-Bone> ola
<fabbione> it's time to start and build up this team
<fabbione> and very fast
<fabbione> first of all we need a temporary team leader while i will be away
<fabbione> but if there are no objections we will wait to discuss this issue when lamont is back
<fabbione> in the meantime, is there any voluteer for that position?
<zul> it should be a cannonical employee imho
<fabbione> zul: why?
<fabbione> i don't see the need of that since it is a temporary team leader
<zul> fabbione: or with someone with access to main
<fabbione> zul: according to the wiki there is a "packager" position
<fabbione> there is no need for team leader to be also the packager
<fabbione> hi dilinger
<dilinger> hello :)
<fabbione> dilinger: in short. i am asking around if there is any volunteer as temporary team leader while i will be away
<zul> if no one else does it ill do it
<fabbione> but we will wait for lamont to take the final decision
<T-Bone> fabbione you'll be off for 1 month, right? If the leader isn't the packager, what's his role (factually, so to speak)?
<zul> but ask lamont first
<fabbione> zul: noted
<fabbione> T-Bone: i will be off 2 weeks
<T-Bone> ok
<T-Bone> I can help then ;)
<fabbione> T-Bone: ok noted
<T-Bone> but let's see what ladude has to say ;^)
<fabbione> ok
<fabbione> the next item in agenda is Procedures/Policies
<fabbione> we need to have some well defined procedures and policies
<fabbione> for people that wants to work in the team
<fabbione> that also describe how to maintain the package
<fabbione> procedures on how to request new drivers
<fabbione> policies for inclusions of new drivers
<fabbione> and so on.
<fabbione> this is important at this point in time
<zul> ok well everyone should state their interest
<fabbione> because kernel is "special" compared to other packages
<fabbione> and it easily violates Upstream VErsion Freeze
<fabbione> and Feature Freeze
<T-Bone> heh
<fabbione> is there any volunteer that would like to start drafting these documents
<zul> not me
<fabbione> and get in touch with ubuntu-doc team?
<T-Bone> fabbione shouldn't the driver requests be managed through BTS?
<fabbione> T-Bone: yes, but that is not 100% clear
<T-Bone> k
<fabbione> i still receive mail like: "Oh ubuntu kernel's God, please add...."
<T-Bone> heh
<T-Bone> fabbione i don't know what the new Ubuntu BTS look like, is it any closer to the Debian one?
<T-Bone> because I think that such  a featureful BTS would help a lot in that area...
<fabbione> T-Bone: that's offtopic. For now we have bugzilla and we will live with it
<fabbione> when we will switch to the new one we can ask for extensions
<T-Bone> fabbione that may not be offtopic in the long run...
<Kamion> it's off-topic for the next two weeks :)
<T-Bone> heh :)
<fabbione> so i guess there are no volunteers to start drafting documentation
<dilinger> fabbione: well, what *is* policy for new drivers?  for debian, we're very strict about it since it is such a pain to maintain third party patches when forward porting to new kernels
<fabbione> dilinger: we have the same issue here, but we are a bit more flexible
<fabbione> we try to include what is supposed to have an active upstream
<fabbione> but we also kick out stuff that becomes dead
<fabbione> (see mISDN in warty -> killed in hoary)
<fabbione> until now i judged based on my own experience
<fabbione> but clearly that's not good enough in a team work
<T-Bone> fabbione, Kamion : my point is that I don't see the interest of drafting some doc that will be obsoleted soon (assuming the new BTS comes up soon)...
<Kamion> it's not going to be usable for us for hoary at least
<Kamion> at least I don't think so
<fabbione> T-Bone: you still need procedures for qa and other stuff. there is not only the drivers or other details
<T-Bone> makes sense then
<T-Bone> fabbione roger that
<Kamion> and really documentation should only require patching for a change of bug tracking system, not a total rewrite
<fabbione> T-Bone: eg: when i need to release a kernel with major changes, i always ensure that it builds on all 6 arches
<fabbione> T-Bone: so you need some kind of document that says that you must do it
<T-Bone> fabbione : heh, that's not enough. d-i is b0rken in ia64 with the new kernel ;)
* T-Bone hides
<T-Bone> fabbione : ok
<fabbione> T-Bone: also.. you want to document how to provide info to Kamion when some changes will arrive
<fabbione> see bumping the ABI
<fabbione> or adding/removing drivers
<fabbione> T-Bone: are you up for it?
<T-Bone> right
<T-Bone> fabbione : writing doc? No.
<fabbione> any volunteer that would like to involve the doc team in writing them?
<fabbione> (since we have a doc team let see what they can do)
<zul> exactly we would juat have to proof read it
<fabbione> zul: exactly...
<T-Bone> fabbione : why not asking the doc team if they wanna do it, and then give them what they need...
* T-Bone concurs
<fabbione> <fabbione> any volunteer that would like to involve the doc team in writing them?
<fabbione> T-Bone: that's what i meant
<T-Bone> ah ok
<fabbione> so anybody up to mail -doc?
<Kamion> s/Kamion/the installer team/g please (hoping that some day it'll be more than just me ...)
<T-Bone> hehe
* lamont gets back from the slow drive to school
<fabbione> Kamion: sorry Allmighty of D-I vahalla
<lamont> sorry I'm laste
<Kamion> fabbione: :P
<zul> hey lamont 
<lamont> late, even
<fabbione> lamont: wb
<fabbione> ok i will mail enrico to involve the -doc team
<fabbione> we can go back to the first item since lamont is here
<fabbione> Temporary Team Leader
<fabbione> zul and T-Bone offer their availability
<fabbione> given that somebody can sponsor their uploads
* lamont reads scrollback
<T-Bone> fabbione i'm a maintainer. Don'tneed sponsor iirc
<T-Bone> (read: full maintainer)
<T-Bone> or whatever it's called ;)
<fabbione> T-Bone, zul: would you like to lead togehter?
<zul> sure
<fabbione> since between both of you, you can cover a wider range of TZ's
<T-Bone> hehe ok.
<T-Bone> what about lamont?
<fabbione> zul, T-Bone: after the meeting please stay around that we need to discuss some details
<fabbione> does anybody have any objections?
<fabbione> it's time to speak up, otherwise be silent forever :)
<T-Bone> fabbione : i think lamont is reading scrollback
<fabbione> let's wait a few secs than
* lamont catches up
<lamont> if elected I will serve
<T-Bone> lol
<zul> heh...fine with me
<T-Bone> are we gonna have a 3 heads hydra for 2 weeks? ;)
<lamont> fabbione: I'd be happy to be temp team leader, don't really want the headaches, but ...
<fabbione> i have no objections with any of you.
<Mithrandir> fabbione: well, since it's temporary, one doesn't have to be quiet forever. :P
<fabbione> so i think the best would be for you 2 to cooperate from the beginning
<fabbione> s/2/3
<lamont> with majority rules, or will there be a point-man?
<fabbione> lamont: majority rule works for me
<zul> same here for me as well
<lamont> 'k
<T-Bone> lamont has mentored me for my debian kernels, I'm fine with him ;)
<fabbione> since i am still the Team Emperor, i still decide... until the meeting is finished :)
<T-Bone> hehe
<lamont> fabbione: lol
<fabbione> after the meeting you are all fucked :P
<zul> hehe...
<T-Bone> lol
<fabbione> ok let's keep going
<fabbione> Subsystem leaders
<zul> ooh...i elect myself as patch monkey
<fabbione> right now we only have mjg59 for acpi
<fabbione> is there anybody that feels confident with a specific subsystem?
<fabbione> like USB, alsa?
<T-Bone> fabbione what are the eligible "subsystems"?
<fabbione> T-Bone: everything basically
<T-Bone> and what's the role of the subsystem leader?
<fabbione> if you use XFS on 99,9% of your machines you are a perfect candidate to test XFS changes
<T-Bone> lol
<fabbione> T-Bone: bugfixes/testing/patching
<fabbione> but if it is something you particulary like
<fabbione> it gets easier and nicer for you
<T-Bone> sure
<fabbione> Mithrandir: iirc you have tons of hardware, right? ;)
<Mithrandir> fabbione: fair bunch, yes.  I lack time, tho.
<fabbione> ok
<Mithrandir> I'm going to help out with anything amd64 specific I can.
<zul> well does anyone have ppc or have access to ppc?
<lamont> fabbione: it's all about the same to me...  I/O and process management are where most of my history is
<fabbione> so is there any person that would like to work on a specific subsystem?
<Mithrandir> zul: I have a PPC, but it's usually powered off.
<fabbione> Mithrandir: ok
<jbailey> zul: I use ppc as my main box, but it's pegasos not mac.
* T-Bone can help with ia64/ppc/hppa specific stuff
<fabbione> that is great guys
<fabbione> please add your names to the wiki pages
<fabbione> page even
<fabbione> to the porter section
<Mithrandir> fabbione: what are the main problematic areas in the kernel?
<T-Bone> fabbione : what about PPC porter btw?
<fabbione> Mithrandir: i was going right there with the TODO list
<lamont> Mithrandir: I'm betting on vm :-)
<fabbione> ACPI, USB, alsa 
<zul> Mithrandir, usb
<zul> amongst others
<fabbione> for ACPI mjg59 is pretty active
<fabbione> but we lack alsa and usb
<zul> ill work on usb
<fabbione> also ide-* needs some love
<fabbione> for what i can tell DMA is half broken
<dilinger> i can do ide stuff
<fabbione> dilinger: that would be great
<fabbione> ok for the subsystems guys.. please add your names to the wiki
<fabbione> is there anything else on this topic?
<dilinger> general block device stuff too, but i don't have any scsi hardware, so i can't test that
<fabbione> (we only have 30 minutes left)
<fabbione> dilinger: that is perfect
<T-Bone> fabbione : don't we need a PPC porter?
<fabbione> now.. let's go to the TODO list
<fabbione> T-Bone: yes, but we don't have an official one
<T-Bone> (maybe that's on the TODO list...)
<fabbione> The todo list needs to be built on the wiki
<fabbione> right now is only one long list in my head
<zul> fabbione: well i have a personal todo list that you know of
<fabbione> zul: and that i can't remember 
<lamont> fabbione: sounds like you';re the ideal person to write the TODO page
<fabbione> not all of it
<zul> heh
<fabbione> lamont: yes. that is right
<fabbione> but there are 2/3 items we need to discuss now
<fabbione> first of all
<fabbione> 2.6.10 and 2.6.11
<T-Bone> hoho
<fabbione> we are going to maintain 2 kernels in parallel
<zul> eek
<fabbione> not both of them in stable state
<T-Bone> yuck
<fabbione> 2.6.11 is actually boiotstrapped on top 2.6.10+today's bk
<Kamion> T-Bone: fortunately powerpc tends to work reasonably well without particular attention, since it's a mainline architecture upstream
<fabbione> that i will upload tomorrow
<T-Bone> Kamion : right. Except that a ppc porter could give some love to ppc-specific flavours (G5, pegasos...)
<fabbione> since we need to be able to sync bits between unstable/stable release
<fabbione> we also need a shared archive
<Kamion> T-Bone: that's not so much general powerpc as people with those specific bits of hardware, but yeah
<dilinger> fabbione: er, so 2.6.11 will be 2.6.11rc3+bk stuff?
<fabbione> dilinger: it will until 2.6.11 will be official out
<dilinger> oh, ok
<lamont> fabbione: any chance of getting it into launchpad?
<fabbione> dilinger: basically the orig.tar.gz is a 2.6.10 + a big fat patch
<fabbione> lamont: no.
<fabbione> because the kernel is in bk
<T-Bone> Kamion : my main concern is toward default kernel conf. It's rather bad last time I checked...
<fabbione> also.. for the stable release i would like to start using the -as tree
<fabbione> instead of plain vanilla
<T-Bone> taht's definitely a good idea imho
<fabbione> that will reduce the workload for the team
<fabbione> (well almost all the team)
<dilinger> heh
<fabbione> dilinger: is your archive shared now?
<makx> not yours
<Mithrandir> -as is dilinger's?
<dilinger> fabbione: not yet, i can do that, though
<fabbione> Mithrandir: yes ;)
<Mithrandir> dilinger++ :)
<fabbione> dilinger: would it be possible to start branching out of your archive?
* T-Bone read -ac instead  of -as, nevermind
<fabbione> if so please coordinate everything with the new team leaders ;)
<fabbione> at least it will be a good solution to start with
<dilinger> fabbione: well, it's just an arch repo w/ patches; i'm unable to keep a full kernel tree in arch.  so, a branch would just contain patch files on top of whatever i have.  it's certainly doable; i'm just not sure it makes sense
<fabbione> dilinger: ok
<fabbione> we can figure the best way to use the archive
<fabbione> next in the TODO list is BTS cleanup
<fabbione> we have plenty of bug reports in NEEDINFO state
<fabbione> and no info
<fabbione> i suggest that the bug trackers will send a general message to all the bugs.
<zul> i think we can drop most of the 2.6.8 ones cant we?
<fabbione> and ask people to test and report
<fabbione> no info in 2 weeks -> CLOSE or kill the bug
<lamont> fabbione: good plan
<fabbione> it's getting impossible to track all of them otherwsie
<fabbione> people can still reopen the bugs if they figure out that is not fixed
<fabbione> last item in the TODO is to write the full TODO and that will be my task
<zul> exactly
<lamont> if no one gets to it this week, I can go on an email spree next week
<zul> fabbione: ill send you my list
<fabbione> lamont: you mean for the BTS?
<lamont> yes
<fabbione> zul: no. i will add a wiki page and you will add your stuff there
<fabbione> lamont: sounds a good plan
<zul> fabbione: yeah that works
<lamont> fabbione: feel free to so note on the todolist page.. :)
<fabbione> we need to centralize the doc and other stuff on the wiki
<fabbione> lamont: ok ;)
* lamont makes a note to buy fabbione a beer
<fabbione> eheh
<fabbione> last item in the agenda:
<fabbione> AOB
<fabbione> i have one
<lamont> AOB?
<fabbione> dilinger, zul: the config tool?
<fabbione> Any other business?
<zul> fabbione: dilinger is working on it
<T-Bone> doh
<zul> i havent had a chance to work on it yet
<fabbione> (it's a brand of tampons)
<fabbione> i mean.. it's NOT
<fabbione> dilinger: status?
* dilinger doesn't know how to make tampons
<dilinger> i started it yesterday, but got caught up doing other stuff
<Mithrandir> dilinger: as long as you know how to make kernels, that's fine
<fabbione> but you know how to use them ;)
<fabbione> ok
<zul> ok thats a bit off topic :)
<fabbione> zul: sorry...
<fabbione> does anybody have any other comment or topic or question?
<zul> heh
<makx> fabbione: any automatic builds in the pipe?
<dilinger> i'll resume work on it today, after i finish up beating some hardware into submission
<zul> so the temp leaders is me and t-bone correct?
<lamont> zul: and me
<fabbione> makx: not yet.. but i have been thinging about it several time.
<Mithrandir> makx: automatic builds?
<zul> and lamont
<Mithrandir> that should be easy enough to do
<T-Bone> mailing list? ;)
<lamont> T-Bone: ubuntu-devel until we get kicked out
<fabbione> makx: would you like to write some code to do it?
<makx> makx: would be cool to // that with debian kernel testing
* mako waves
<lamont> mako: you're either way early, or way late. :-)
<makx> fabbione: we need machines that have remote power switches
<Mithrandir> makx: you want to have full remote testing and stuff as well?
<fabbione> makx: you said building, or booting?
<makx> said building, meant both.
<fabbione> no we have nothing like that atm.
<lamont> fair chunk of booting can be done with xen for at least one arch...
<mako> lamont: early i hope :)
<lamont> heh
<fabbione> i think we will land on hoary+1 before we can have such infrastructure working
<fabbione> at least in a central location
<lamont> fabbione: certainly not hoary
<fabbione> we can work at least on daily build
<lamont> well, almost certainly
<lamont> building should be doable for hoary, certainly
<makx> yes that's a good starter
<Mithrandir> daily builds should be easy enough to set up
<fabbione> makx: would you like to work on that? i am sure lamont can help you setting up the stuff in the dc
<lamont> given the necessary stuff, we could put the daily builds in the dc without much pain
<fabbione> yes but we need daily builds out of an archive
<zul> fabbione: we should look at how osdl handles that
<fabbione> like an arch repo or something
<T-Bone> Mithrandir : daily builds check that a kernel builds, which rather meaningless...
<fabbione> T-Bone: not really
<lamont> T-Bone: not always...
<fabbione> it gives you an idea that the kernel at least can build
<lamont> and said kernels would be available for people to download and test
<fabbione> and that's how i released kernels for 4 arches in the last period
<Mithrandir> what lamont says.
<fabbione> ok
<fabbione> so everybody has already his fair amount of work and tasks
<fabbione> anything else?
* T-Bone lags like hell
<fabbione> 3
<fabbione> 2
<fabbione> 1
<fabbione> ok
<T-Bone> lamont, fabbione: i can build tons of building kernel that will utterly fail on some archs we know about
<fabbione> meeting is finished
<T-Bone> anyway...
<lamont> T-Bone: that's why we test them
<lamont> (just just the ones you build, mind you... :-)
<fabbione> T-Bone, zul, lamont: i would like to talk with you 3 sometimes today
<fabbione> perhaps after the CC meeting
<lamont> after CC would be good for me - 
<T-Bone> lamont : remind me to kick you next time we meet ;)
<Mithrandir> T-Bone: saying that "they can fail while still building" doesn't imply that building them to test they build is useless
<lamont> heh
<zul> fabbione: yep ill be here i have an ultra-sound later this afternoon though
<fabbione> ok perfect
<T-Bone> fabbione not before late today i think
<fabbione> thanks everybody
<lamont> Mithrandir: building them to test that they build and make the bits available for testing to people who have the hardware, but not the ability/space/whatever to build their own
<fabbione> T-Bone: than i will start to talk to lamont and zul
<Mithrandir> lamont: ack
<fabbione> and you will sync with them
<T-Bone> ok
<zul> that was a quick meeting :)
<fabbione> let's take 8 minutes break before the CC meeting
<fabbione> zul: i hate long meetings ;)
<zul> fabbione: dont we all
<fabbione> and i said i wanted to be quick
<fabbione> zul: not managers ;)
<lamont> fabbione: at least T-Bone is reasonably TZ-proximate to you
<T-Bone> fabbione : when do you plan to talk to us?
<fabbione> they need to explain who they spend their time
<zul> fabbione: im no freaking manager...oh wait
<fabbione> T-Bone: after the CC meeting
<T-Bone> i'll have a much better connection in 1h30
<lamont> fabbione: I'm going to disappear for a short while, when lamont_r shows up, I'm back...
<fabbione> T-Bone: i don't think it will last less than that
<fabbione> ok
<lamont> given most past cc's I think I'll be back before the end of the meeting
<fabbione> ehhe
<T-Bone> fabbione : ok then. TCP over HTTP plain sucks, especially when the proxy is overloaded...
* lamont tsks at t-bone
<T-Bone> lamont : huh? ;)
<lamont> fabbione: anything else before I flee?
<lamont> T-Bone: if they wanted you to have TCP, they'd have enabled it... :))
<T-Bone> lamont : not like i had a choice, mind you ;)
<T-Bone> lamont : heh. I have a regular work you know. Not supposed to be hanging around right now ;)
<fabbione> lamont: nope
<lamont> ok.  back with better bandwidth in a little bit the
<lamont> n
* T-Bone is about to leave as well...
<mako> Kamion: around?
<Kamion> yes
<mako> still waiting for sabdfl
<mako> i've got a quick thing to add the agenda
<sivang> hey mako 
<mako> agenda is http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/CommunityCouncilAgenda
<mako> go ahead and add or propose new additions now if you want to cover something not on that list
<mako> CC members should take a look over the people/wiki pages on that list if you have not already
<mako> speed up the meeting once we get going
<Kamion> I thought we dealt with the majority of those people earlier?
<Kamion> oh, that was MOTU or something
<sivang> mako: doing that at the moment
<sabdfl> hi all
<sivang> hey sabdfl 
<Mirv> sorry, in a middle of a crisis, I'm a bit late (I think)
<sabdfl> apologies, crossed wires
<zul> Kamion: dealt with me and tseng last week
<sabdfl> did i miss the beginning, or should we begin?
<Kamion> neither of you are on UbuntuMembers; who's responsible for updating that page?
<mako> i just told people to look over the list
<mako> of wikipages/new members
<mako> and then asked for any extra items
<mako> i'm addinging one myself now
<sabdfl> isn't dholbach already a member?
<Kamion> sabdfl: dholbach was fast-track-approved as MOTU
<Kamion> (IIRC)
<sabdfl> that covers membership too
<mako> alright, i just added "reply-to revisisted"
<sivang> Kamion: yeah, I think it was last meeting?
<mako> smurfix_away: you around, i suspect from your name maybe not
<Kamion> sabdfl: in that case everyone on that list except for Scott Ritchie is already done, if memory serves correctly
<sivang> mako: pinged him couple of hours ago, didn't reply
<sabdfl> yes, some of those folks didn't make it for main uploading is all iirc
* mako nods
* amu sponsored 2 packages from dholbach last week, they are ok
<Kamion> and somebody *really* needs to update UbuntuMembers before we lose track completely :)
<sabdfl> we have a spec for an automagix system
<mako> Kamion: i have a list of everyone i've recieved signed cc's for
<sabdfl> it will be done by hoary
<sabdfl> it will track signed cc's
<sivang> sabdfl: that's the "people" part of launchpad right?
<Kamion> oh, dholbach was approved just today I think, haggai said he was happy
<sabdfl> and membership
<mako> can i suggest we start at the top of the agenda and go through
<sabdfl> do we have the LoCo team leads around?
<mako> even if it's to say that we're skipping something
<mako> just for the logs, reporting, etc
<sabdfl> ok mako
<mako> that really was a question.. :)
<sabdfl> lead off on reply-to
<mako> ok.. 
<mako> alright.. 
<mako> so two weeks ago, we decided to switch reply-to for ubuntu-users 
<mako> for a trial period
<mako> i wrote the message as we'd discussed and made the change
<Kamion> it was only actually switched about a week ago, iirc?
<mako> yeah.. i think last monday
<mako> FWIW, i've recieved no negative feedback to -owner
<sabdfl> ok, that's good news
<mako> it's been less than two weeks..
<sabdfl> one week is too short to make it final though
<mako> so if we want to revisit this again, we can
<mako> but i suspect we won't hear more
<sabdfl> how about we keep it till the end of the month, then decide?
<Kamion> has anyone been individually CoC-warned or -banned, or are we saving that for the next flamewar?
<mako> there seems to a be a number of people who don't really care a non-trivally small group of people who are happy
<Mirv> sabdfl: I'm the one asking for Finnish team lead
<sabdfl> next flamewar :-)
<sabdfl> hi Mirv
<mako> Kamion: i think we're saving that
<mako> i mentioned in that message that we were upset about the way that things in terms of tone
<sabdfl> do we send the CoC when people sign up to the list?
<mako> and taht we would be enforcing the CoC in the future
<sivang> sounds good
<mako> sabdfl: that was mentioned in the last meeting but i don't think we've gone ahead and done it yet.. i'll mention it to jdub
<sabdfl> ok
<mako> i'm not sure if anyone has any comments
<sabdfl> anybody unhappy with leaving it as-is till the end of Feb?
<sabdfl> another two weeks?
<Kamion> seems sensible
<mako> i'm happy with that
<sabdfl> ok, done
<sabdfl> thanks mako
<sabdfl> appreciate your steering the community wagon trail
<mako> np ;) 
<sabdfl> do we have good feelers into the forums and lists if things get testy?
<sabdfl> does stuff bubble onto -devel or sounder?
<mako> i am working with a few people who are active in the forums for traffic stuff.. they may good candidates to sort of police them as well
<mako> sounder, not yet
<mako> devel, not often and it's stopped quicker
<mako> even user is overwhelming only topic and civil
<sabdfl> maybe the welcome message should also let people know to raise CoC issues with any CC member
<mako> right, i get them too all but often not until after the fact for traffic later on some lists
<sabdfl> don't want a police state, but also want people to know that they can raise an issue and we will take it seriously
<sivang> we should probably refer people to CoC upon subscription maybe?
<sivang> tell them to reach CC people when things get out of hand etc
<sabdfl> mako, is there a canonical (!) CoC.txt? we need one for the ubuntite mgmt system
<sivang> lol
<mako> sabdfl: i have one that can be the canonical one
<sabdfl> mako: could you commit it to rocketfuel, under lib/canonical/launchpad/templates/coc/ please?
<Kamion> sivang: yes, that was what we were discussing
<sabdfl> current.txt
<mako> sabdfl: ok
<sabdfl> also publish on the website till the launchpad stuff is done
<sabdfl> cool
<sivang> Kamion: ah ok, "mind the backlog" (tm) :)
<sabdfl> i must say the community spirit is fantastic
<sabdfl> we will need to defend that, growth makes it harder
<sabdfl> it won't stay great unless we defend  the coc
<sivang> I agree
<mako> many of the recent reviews have had references to the community in the titles or otherwise very central
<mako> can we move to loco teams?
<mako> smurfix_away isn't here and he appoints those leaders...
<sabdfl> ok
<mako> so i'd say we put this aside unless he shows up.. he can report via email, etc
<mako> unless anmyone has any reservations about either of those candidates they want to voice
<Kamion> smurfix shouldn't have to do that at CC meetings, should he? it can be out of band
<sabdfl> Mirv?
<mako> which seems unlikely
<sabdfl> Mirv is here
<sivang> Kamion: IIRC this was also agreed upon last meeting, that he can approve new people without having to dedicate CC meetings for it.
<fabbione> i never closed it
<fabbione> ops
<sabdfl> i'd still like new LoCo guys to swing through the CC, so we can chat a bit and find out if there are ways we can support them
<sivang> hmm , right.
<mako> sabdfl: yes, where timezones don't make that impossible.. either way they should swing bby
<mako> and to let them know that we're interested in supporting them and that we value their hard work
<mako> (a lot)
<sabdfl> for example, i'm keen to know if there are linux magazines in finland, and how we could get ubuntu reviewed in them
<sabdfl> whether they would be interested in interviewing some of the ubuntu rock stars (keybuk takes a bow :-)
<sivang> hehe
<sabdfl> how many languages there are in finland, which will need rosetta teams
<sivang> sabdfl: rosetta teams == loco teams? 
<mako> sivang: not always
<sabdfl> not necessarily, but the LoCo leader is likely to help setup the translation teams
<mako> sivang: a nl loco team make sense. but there are multiple languages in nl
<sabdfl> Mirv, if you are around, say hi so we can chat briefly
<mako> sivang: or, for example, there are *80* languages in ethiopia
<sivang> mako: man :)
<amu> mako: wow
<Mirv> sabdfl: yes, hi. I came from a trip 30 minutes ago, our hamster is killing itself but otherwise I'm here
* mako raises his eyebrows at Mirv
<sabdfl> gosh
<sabdfl> that's the best entry to a cc meeting i've ever seen
<sivang> heheh
<Mirv> Linux is quite known in Finland naturally, because of Linus, but still all the magazines are only PC-centric and largely interested in MS stuff
<mako> Mirv: i hope that works out for you.. and your hamster
<sivang> sabdfl: he did that just to get famous :)
<sabdfl> Mirv, where are you based?
<Mirv> mako: yeah, no prob, the hamster is now safe.
<Mirv> sabdfl: I'm in northern Helsinki
<sabdfl> are there multiple languages spoken in finland?
<sabdfl> indigenous languages?
<Mirv> sabdfl: yes, Finnish and Swedish are official languages because of historical reasons and that 6% of the people have Swedish as their primary language
<Kamion> /usr/share/i18n/SUPPORTED lists fi_FI and sv_FI
<sabdfl> Lap?
<mako> http://www.ethnologue.com/show_country.asp?name=Finland
<Mirv> in practise the bilinguality is limited to official stuff, and most Finnish people know English much better than Swedish
* ogra reads the logs
<sabdfl> wow, that's an awesome site
<mako> sabdfl: it *really* is
<Mirv> in addition to Finnish, Swedish, Lappish is recognized for the few people who speak it as their mother tongue
<sivang> mako: btw, have you been contacted for arabic team leads?  I was trying to push some peopel to maybe voulnteer for that, and even has one linux new newbie as candidate, but he won't be available until he finishes his CS degree... , from my talks over #arabeyes --> "We'd better contrib to debina etc etc.."
<sabdfl> Mirv: would it be interesting to people to have Ubuntu translated into Lappish?
<ogra> sabdfl, Kamion: dholbach wasnt approved for upload last time, but he already has sponsored uploads in universe, it would be a big help for MOT if he could get approved 
<mako> sivang: i have been contacted by arabic speaking people.. but not by anybody who introduced themself as such
<sivang> mako: when, you have names? (from .il ?)
<sivang> mako: and good to know :)
<sabdfl> ogra: for universe, you plus one other can approve him
<Mirv> sabdfl: it would be, but there are only about 6000-7000 of them in Finland. anyway, it'd be interesting to see if anything could be done to translate Linux/Ubuntu to Lappish.
<ogra> sabdfl: i know.... but the other was missing last time ;)
<mako> there are also several very different dialects apparently
<sabdfl> any other TB / CC member comfortable enough with dholbach's work to second him on a fast-track?
<sabdfl> ok
<Mirv> yes, there are 10 different Lappish languages...
<sivang> wow
<sabdfl> Mirv, what are your plans for Ubuntu in Finland?
<ogra> Kamion: did you find time to look over his coaster paqckages ?
<Kamion> ogra: no, as it turns out, sorry :(
<sabdfl> Kamion, could you ask one person on the distro team to review dholbach's work within 48 hours, and give a straight yes / no?
<sabdfl> you or anyone you trust to advise you?
<Kamion> I'll try lamont
<ogra> sabdfl, Kamion: amu already sponsored uploads for him....
<ogra> so he may know his work
<sabdfl> amu isn't TB / CC / MOTU
<mako> Mirv: your work and interest on the finish team (past, present and future) is appreciated :)
<Kamion> I don't know amu as well
<amu> sabdfl: nope, neighter offical on the distro team 
<ogra> sabdfl, but he could give a hint on the packages :)
<sabdfl> sure
* amu sponsored 2 packages from dholbach last week, they are ok
<Kamion> (which is no offence to amu, just a transitive-trust thing :))
<sabdfl> ok guys
<sabdfl> can we wrap up? any other business?
<mako> yes
<mako> we had one person on the list of candidates who was not approved yet, correct?
<amu> Kamion: hehe :) 
<sabdfl> i have another meeting starting
<sabdfl> my apologies, i thought this was moved to 20h00 UTC, but that's next week's TB meeting
<ogra> mako: which one...do we need sabdfl for that ?
<sabdfl> mako, can you chair from here on?
<mako> sabdfl: we can approve the rest w/o you
<mako> sabdfl: yes, no problem
<Treenaks> sabdfl: I wouldn't mind this meeting moving to 2000 UTC as well
<Treenaks> next time
<sabdfl> would like to hear a more detailed plan from mirv on ideas in finland
<Mirv> basically I saw that some people had already joined #ubuntu-fi, but there was no "official" way Finnish Ubuntu users could reach each other. I'm hoping to correct this, and see if Finnish Ubuntu community could prosper
<sabdfl> ok, cheers all
<mako> can we go through the list of maintainers?
<mako> ajmitch: you taken care of?
<Mirv> I'd also like to see that any Ubuntu-specific packages are translated to Finnish
<ogra> mako: was approved today
<mako> we handled tseng last week, IIRC
<ogra> yup
<Treenaks> mako: ajmitch has been approved today, afaik
<mako> dholbach is going to be taken care of today
<mako> chuck short?
<elmo> ajmitch has been done
<zul> last week
<ogra> zul was approved last week
* mako giggles
<mako> (i watched ghostbusters this weekend)
<Mirv> well, I'll contact sabdfl anyway on these things at some point, because of the Lappish things etc.
<zul> mako: yeah yeah
<mako> Mirv: you can also work/discuss this diretly with other tb members of the rosetta people
<mako> Mirv: which might be faster :)
<mako> so scott richie
<ogra> mako: YokoZar is awaiting package review first.....since he took a huge package as first one....(wine and friends)
<mako> scott ritchie even
<mako> ok, wow
<Mirv> mako: tb=?
<mako> ogra: so you're going to suggest waiting on that
<Treenaks> Mirv: tech board
<ogra> mako: haggai has it on his list....
<ogra> mako: lets wait for his ok then
<mako> Mirv: yeah, i mean cc instead of tb
<mako> alright, sounds fair enough
<mako> so that's the agenda
<mako> is there any other business?
<ogra> Mirv: tb=technical board
<mako> going once...
<mako> Kamion, elmo: other business?
<elmo> not from me
<mako> anyone else?
<mako> next meeting...
<mako> is 1600 really problematic for anyuone on the CC?
<mako> otherwise, i'd be alright w/ sticking with it
<sivang> i'm ok with it
<elmo> I prefer it to the 2000 UTC of TB, certainly, FWIW
<ogra> an hour later would be nioce for europe, but a pita for au i guess....
<mako> alright then, lets keep it at 1600
<mako> if for no other reason than half of the people will forget if we change it :)
<mako> (including me)
<mako> next meeting Feb 22, 1600UTC
<mako> see you all then
<Treenaks> OK
<Treenaks> mako: not later?
<Treenaks> (1600 is a really bad time here in CET :))
<mako> Treenaks: elmo expressed a desire to not have it later and i'm hesitant to change slightly
<elmo> well, I'm not trying to be awkard ,if there's a consensus it should be later, that's fine by me.  you just asked for opinion so I gave mine :)
<mako> i like 1600 too
<Treenaks> ok
<mako> but i guess later is the same for me
<Treenaks> 1700 UTC would be better for me, or 1500 UTC.. 1600 is in the middle of my commute
<mako> Treenaks: ahh, ok
<mako> Treenaks: earlier becomes unmanigable for the west coast of the us
<ogra> i guess this matches many europeans.....
<sivang> mako: just make the announcement for he new time for the CC on the main apge of the website :)
<Treenaks> mako: yeah, I can see that
<mako> sivang: of course
<sivang> (or I'll forget it also)
<sivang> :)
<mako> Treenaks: and later gets into the evening for folks in europe
<mako> there is no way we keep everyone people happy :)
<Kamion> no other business from me, sorry I was away for a few minutes
<Treenaks> mako: 17:00 UTC is 18:00 CET, 19:00 for Finland, Greece, Israel (or 20:00 for Israel?) afaik
<sivang> Treenaks: 19:00 for israel
<sivang> (+2 hours
<mako> Treenaks: fabbione is, i know, very against having the meeting any later because he does them from/for work and likes to keep a normal workday
<mako> Treenaks: i think the only real solution is a rotating time
<ogra> ahem....just reading the log...... wasnt reply to on the agenda ?
<Treenaks> mako: that would be OK, I think
<mako> ogra: first thing
<ogra> mako: i cant find anything in the logs.... did you talk about it ?
<mako> ogra:  we talked about and there has no negative feedback so far.. since it's been less than two weeks since the switch happened, w are going to bring it up again at the next meeting
<ogra> mako: hmm, no negtive feedback, sure, but a guy who recived gmail invite answers acidently to the list ;)
<mako> ogra: i haven't seen that one yet :)
<ogra> which were sent by another guy by PM ;)
<ogra> was quite funny to read.....
<sivang> ogra: lol
<zul> boo
<fabbione> ok that's the situation
<fabbione> i am going to leave for holidays the 17th
<fabbione> so from tomorrow till the 17th
<fabbione> and excluding this weekend
<lamont_r> moo
<fabbione> i will be your kernel bitch :-)
<zul> wohoo! :)
<fabbione> basically i would like you to start looking at the package
<thom> whaddyamean, excluding the weekend? slackarse
<fabbione> +s
<fabbione> .10 and .11
<zul> is .11 around?
<fabbione> thom: sorry.. getting married this weekend.. i really can't find a good excuse to skip it
<zul> i did ;)
<thom> pfft, miserable excuse
<fabbione> zul: not yet.. i am still fixing some minor compilation problems
<ogra> absolutely
<zul> k
<fabbione> i plan to upload .11 tomorrow
<fabbione> and it does not need the same love as .10
<fabbione> but it needs at least to be in sync
<fabbione> use .11 as test bed basically
<zul> well ill be working on usb this week and ill add the wiki page for todo at least start it
<fabbione> since it has all possible updates
<fabbione> zul: ok. let's open a kernel/ on the wiki
<zul> k
<fabbione> that includes the TODO
<fabbione> i will add all the stuff there
<fabbione> (tomorrow)
<zul> yep no problems
<fabbione> i want you to get confident in managing the package too
<fabbione> specially when there is the need to change ABI
<fabbione> so any question you have, either drop me a mail
<fabbione> or catch me on irc
<lamont_r> fabbione: can I disappear for a bit? (fire call)
<fabbione> sure
<fabbione> i have done
<fabbione> it was just to sum up the last bits
<zul> it shouldnt be too dificult to understand if i have any questions ill either ask lamont or someone else or email you
<fabbione> before the 17th i would like the 3 leaders to take over
<lamont_r> ok.
<lamont_r> bbiab then
<fabbione> lamont_r: later
<zul> toodles lamont
<fabbione> and start uploading kernels
<zul> neat
<fabbione> eta for new leaders to take over is no later than next tuesday
<fabbione> so i will be around for 2 days just in case
<fabbione> after that you are on your own for 2 weeks (at least)
<zul> sounds good do you want to relay the info to t-bone?
<fabbione> zul: the chan is logged ;)
<fabbione> http://people.ubuntulinux.org/~fabbione/irclogs/ubuntu-meeting-current.html
<zul> duh
<fabbione> he can read here
<zul> anything else?
<fabbione> not from me
<fabbione> any question?
<fabbione> no
<zul> nope if i think of antyhing ill ask
<fabbione> lamont_r, zul, T-Bone: you are the weakest link. KTHXBYE!
<zul> buh bye
* lamont_r is bak
<zul> lamont_r you might want to scroll back
<lamont_r> yeah
<lamont_r> actually, I need stuff from before I joined the channel, it appears
<lamont_r> reading the log
<lamont_r> fabbione: what TZ are the logs in? +2, or 0?
<lamont_r> damn funky tz is what they are...
<lamont_r> +13 wow
<zul> lamont_r which timezone are you ni?
<mdz> are you guys finished with this channel?
<zul> yep
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:mdz] : Tuesday 22 February 2005 16:00 UTC Community Council meeting -- https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/CommunityCouncilAgenda || Tuesday 15 February 2005 20:00 UTC: Technical Board -- http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/TechnicalBoardAgenda. || This is NOT #ubuntu, nor #ubuntu-devel
<mdz> Kamion, haggai: ping?
* amu pongs randomly
<haggai> mdz: pong
<mdz> ok, waiting for Kamion
<Kamion> mdz: pong
<mdz> Kamion: hi
<mdz> so, first order of business is to sort out the package lists for kubuntu
<mdz> seeds and germinate
<Kamion> I suggest branching the hoary seeds archive
<mdz> sounds logical
<amu> yep, i packaged a kubuntu-meta, which is probably a good base for a seed   
<Kamion> other way round probably (see ubuntu-meta), but yes
<mdz> what about main vs. universe issues?
<Kamion> the seeds archive is currently on chinstrap; any suggestions for a better place to put it?
<Kamion> that's just a matter of running germinate in a different way
<Kamion> i.e. -c main,restricted,universe,multiverse (with current germinate)
<haggai> I've been holding off on moving to main until really necessary, but now sounds like a reasonable time to move to main
<mdz> rookery would be a fine place
<Kamion> mdz: no more people have shell access to that than to chinstrap, though
<Kamion> we have read-only access on rookery already
<mdz> we don't have public webdav yet
<mdz> we can put it on chinstrap in the interest of expedience, and amu can commit to it at least
<Kamion> others can branch and request merges ...
<mdz> or it can be hosted somewhere else, and we can mirror it
<haggai> I have a contract to sign so perhaps I can ask for an account there too
<amu> mdz: thats fine with me    
<haggai> (the contract is for amu but covers the company, so may be enough)
<mdz> amu: have you worked with baz much?  would you be able to create the branch and such?
<amu> ... putting it on chinstrap .. 
<Kamion> http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/SeedManagement
<amu> mdz: never, only checked out code serveral times 
<Kamion> I'll create the branch for you if you'd rather
<Kamion> just tell me what it should be called; kubuntu-hoary?
<amu> Kamion: yes please 
<haggai> kubuntu-hoary sounds good
<mdz> or hoary-kubuntu?
<mdz> or khoary? ;-)
<Kamion> actually, shouldn't it be kubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com/... rather than ubuntu-devel@?
<Kamion> i.e. a different archive
<mdz> makes no difference to me
<Kamion> then we can just have kubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com/seeds--hoary--0
<mdz> this damage goes away with baz-ng anyway ;-)
<mdz> let's do that
<mdz> unless there are strong feelings to the contrary
<haggai> sounds fine to me
<mdz> Kamion, can you get germinate set up for that branch?
<Kamion> working
<mdz> I didn't necessarily mean right now, while we're talking, but ok ;-)
<Kamion> yes, will do
<mdz> amu: did you look at how ubuntu-meta works?
<mdz> it downloads a copy of the seeds and generates the metapackages based on that
<amu> mdz: for a live it works, i would say there are no known conflicts
<mdz> kubuntu-meta should use the same approach
<Kamion> ok, 'baz register-archive sftp://chinstrap/home/warthogs/archives/kubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com; baz get kubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com/seeds--hoary--0'
<amu> live=liveCD 
<Kamion> I'll set up public mirrors and stuff too
<mdz> amu: I don't understand
<mdz> amu: I'm talking about the infrastructure to create the metapackages
<mdz> amu: kubuntu-meta should be derived from kubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com/seeds--hoary--0
<mdz> start with the control/rules/update stuff from ubuntu-meta, and modify it for kubuntu
<mdz> change the URL to point to Kamion's public mirror
<mdz> and then it will generate the dependencies for you
<mdz> ok?
<amu> mdz: i did it otherwise, copied from the ubuntu-meta und changed the packages .. 
<mdz> ...
<amu> mdz: sure, i understood this, how the metapackages will be created
<mdz> ok, as long as the result is the same
<mdz> kubuntu-meta doesn't seem to be in hoary yet; can you upload it today?
<mdz> or tomorrow?
<amu> i'll do my best  
<mdz> Kamion: how will we work the package selection in the installer?
<elmo> err, can I ask some meta questions?
<mdz> elmo: yeah, we're short on time though
<elmo> where's kubuntu going?
<mdz> same place as Ubuntu
<Kamion> mdz: I'm willing to work to a spec
<Kamion> mdz: but I don't know the right answer
<elmo> mdz: as in, it'll be _in_ Ubuntu?
<elmo> no separate Packages files or release schedule or anything?
<mdz> elmo: they will be different lists of packages to install, within the same release
<mdz> for now anyway
<mdz> Kamion: what's the simplest way to get different desktop sets without branching d-i?
<mdz> Kamion: preseed a variable with the name of the task?
<elmo> right, but from a purely selfish (i.e. archive) point of view, the packages will still be in pool/main/ ?
<mdz> elmo: yes
<amu> elmo,mdz: the release schedule of kde is different than ours
<elmo> ok
<Kamion> mdz: preseed file, yeah
<Kamion> mdz: base-config/package-selection (Ubuntu addition) supports this sort of stuff; it defaults to ~tubuntu-desktop
<amu> kde release, if hoary is released
<Kamion> ideally I'd get Task: kubuntu-desktop lines or similar
<mdz> amu: we can talk about releases once we have a distribution
<mdz> elmo: can Task: kubuntu-desktop be arranged?
<mdz> hmm, probably not
<elmo> sure?
<mdz> can a package be in more than one Task sanely?
<mdz> does aptitude actually handle that?
<elmo> sure?
<mdz> hm, ok
<elmo> console-cyrillic        Task    cyrillic, russian, ukrainian
<Kamion> it happens all the time in Debian
<elmo> ^-- from Debian
<Kamion> public mirror of the above archive: http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/kubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com
<mdz> elmo: ok, so you'll translate the kubuntu germinate output into tasks?
<elmo> mdz: can do, yeah
<mdz> amu: can you commit the changes to the seeds on your own, or do you need help with it?
<Kamion> ... and public checkout (for use by germinate) at http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/seeds/kubuntu-hoary/
<mdz> Kamion: thanks
<amu> mdz: need some help at beginning, never worked with it
<mdz> Kamion: when do you think you can fit some time to set up germinate?
<Kamion> germinate doesn't need to be set up
<Kamion> it should just work
<mdz> oh?
<mdz> where will the kubuntu output go?
<Kamion> germinate.py -s kubuntu-hoary -a $ARCH -c main,restricted,universe,multiverse
<mdz> for elmo, sure, but shouldn't we have published germinate output at some point?
<Kamion> mdz: the output in ~cjwatson/germinate-hoary-output/ and the like is purely informational, I don't think anything automatic uses it
<mdz> if amu and haggai don't need it, ok
<mdz> elmo: what about anastacia?
<elmo> Kamion: I don't even need to update my germinate ?
<Kamion> elmo: no, just run with that -s
<elmo> mdz: if I run germinate.py for kubuntu-hoary too, anastacia will pick anything in there up
<Kamion> elmo: (I'm assuming you have a germinate vaguely recent enough to understand -s)
<mdz> ok
<elmo> she just works on the concatenation of 'all' files from all the germinate runs I do
<mdz> perfect
<Kamion> running germinate now, output going to http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/germinate-output/kubuntu-hoary/
<Kamion> amu: grab me first time you need to make a seed change, I'll walk you through it
<amu> Kamion: thx
<mdz> let's get the initial seed list in place right away; that's a prerequisite for everything else
<Kamion> amu: do you have bazaar installed?
<amu> yep
<mdz> amu: do you have a checkout of the seeds?  Kamion gave the commands above
<Kamion> 18:21 < Kamion> ok, 'baz register-archive sftp://chinstrap/home/warthogs/archives/kubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com; baz get kubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com/seeds--hoary--0'
<amu> mdz: yep
<Kamion> amu: make changes, then "baz commit -s 'summary of your changes'"
<mdz> amu: ok, so they're just text files, with items delimited with ' * '
<Kamion> amu: oh, you'll need to set up gpg signing
<mdz> oh hell
<Kamion> amu: mkdir -p ~/.arch-params/signing; echo 'gpg --clearsign' > ~/.arch-params/signing/=default
<mdz> echo 'tla-gpg-check gpg_command="gpg --verify-files -"' > ~/.arch-params/signing/=default.check
<Kamion> make that bazaar-gpg-check
<mdz> good call
<mdz> er
<mdz> no, there is no baz-gpg-check
<mdz> or else it's in a package I don't have?
<mdz> tla-gpg-check is in tla
<Kamion> bazaar-gpg-check was not a typo
<mdz> right
<mdz> I didn't read what you wrote at all
<mdz> amu: ok?
<Kamion> amu: er, anyway, are you following? the above should let baz do signed commits to your seeds archive
<Kamion> if you disentangle mdz and me debating it
<amu> Kamion: gpg-check done
<amu> Kamion: yes, i'm following ... 
<mdz> amu: now you can edit one of the files (just add a comment or whitespace or something) and commit it as a test
<mdz> it should prompt for your gpg passphrase
<amu> just a second, looks like proxy isnt enabled from my desk
<elmo> ugh, cron.sync is getting hideous
<Kamion> cron.sync?
<elmo> the thing that runs germinate
<amu> ok, checkout done 
<mdz> amu: <mdz> amu: now you can edit one of the files (just add a comment or whitespace or something) and commit it as a test
<mdz> make the change, then "baz commit" just like cvs
<Kamion> oh, I would recommend not changing 'base'
<elmo> could someone commit kdelibs or something so I can test the Task kubuntu-desktop stuff?
<Kamion> or indeed generating a separate metapackage for it, at the moment
<mdz> agreed
<Kamion> I haven't worked out how to handle having separate debootstrap scripts for Ubuntu and Kubuntu yet
<Kamion> I'd prefer not to unless I absolutely have to :)
<amu> summary: what i changed ? keywords:? 
<mdz> amu: summary should be a one-line description of the change
<Kamion>     Summary:
<Kamion>       move English language pack from supported to ship
<mdz> amu: keywords should be empty
<Kamion>     Summary:
<Kamion>       bump kernel udebs to 2.6.10-3
<Kamion>     Summary:
<Kamion>       Add openoffice.org2 packages to supported
<Kamion> that sort of thing
<mdz> amu: if you have more to say, you can write a paragraph at the bottom, but that is optional
<mdz> with the seeds, usually there is only a summary
<amu> done, please check
<mdz> no change to the archive
<mdz> please paste the output from your commit\
<mdz> amu: please paste the output from your commit
<amu> amu@ppc:~/seeds--hoary--0--base-0 $ baz commit
<amu> * no log found, creating one automatically
<amu> * (Use "tla make-log" to create a log file.)
<amu> Password:
<amu> WARNING: no rule found for checking signatures from kubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com
<mdz> Kamion: do you need to go?
<amu>   Consider creating ~/.arch-params/signing/kubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com.check
<amu>   or ~/.arch-params/signing/=default.check
<amu> M  base
<amu> arch: no arch user id set
<amu> amu@ppc:~/seeds--hoary--0--base-0 $
<mdz> that was a fatal error
<Kamion> amu: 'baz my-id "Andreas Mueller <your@email.address>"'
<Kamion> mdz: I have about 25 minutes
<mdz> amu: I gave you the command above to create =default.check
<mdz> echo 'bazaar-gpg-check gpg_command="gpg --verify-files -"' > ~/.arch-params/signing/=default.check
<Kamion> the .check thing was not fatal, the user id bit was fatal
<mdz> Kamion: yes, I know
<mdz> but you already told him how to fix that
<Kamion> ok :)
<amu> Kamion: i've to set into my .profile ? 
<Kamion> amu: no, just run that once
<amu> mdz: i did :) letme check
<Kamion> baz remembers it
<Kamion> amu: oh, you might like to rename the checkout directory to something without --base-0 in it; it's technically harmless but will confuse you
<Kamion> I don't know why baz does that by default :-/
<amu> ah now it ask about my gpg pass
<amu> * update pristine tree (kubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com/seeds--hoary--0--base-0=> seeds--hoary--0--patch-1)
<amu> * committed kubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com/seeds--hoary--0--patch-1
<Kamion> that worked, although I did ask not to change base for now :-)
<Kamion> anyway, I expect it will take a while to get the Kubuntu seeds set up right; can we do the other stuff I'm needed for first, if possible?
<mdz> Kamion: I think the next steps for you are the installer package selection, and from there CD building
<mdz> that's the end of my list
<mdz> anything I've overlooked?
<Kamion> ok, installer package selection is a matter of somebody telling me what aptitude pattern to install
<Kamion> it ties in with CD building
<mdz> oh, I thought that was hardcoded in d-i at the moment
<mdz> er, base-config
<Kamion> it's the default value in a debconf template; it can be preseeded to something different
<Kamion> (and already is, in server installs)
<mdz> oh, great, I didn't realize that had been done already
<mdz> that'll be kubuntu-desktop, then
<Kamion> ok
<mdz> ~tkubuntu-desktop
<Kamion> are the CD images going on cdimage.ubuntu.com, or elsewhere?
<Kamion> in either case, where exactly?
<mdz> I don't see a reason to build them anyplace other than little
<mdz> as for where they're mirrored to, that's up to elmo, but I imagine the same places as for ubuntu
<Kamion> right, I meant the mirror bit
<mdz> elmo?
<Kamion> (it's perhaps worth noting that the DVD can be a combined Ubuntu/Kubuntu installer, if everything fits ...)
<mdz> Kamion: how soon are we likely to run up against that problem?
<haggai> guys, I need to go sorry.  Looks like you have everything sorted with amu
<Kamion> mdz: which problem?
<mdz> haggai: can we catch up later on bounty stuff?
<mdz> Kamion: where to mirror the ISOs
<haggai> mdz: sure I'll ping you later
<Kamion> mdz: as soon as I set up CD building
<elmo> I think the isos should eventually go on kubuntu.com, certaintly for releases
<mdz> Kamion: and when will you have a chance to do that?  you said recently that you still have things on your plate for feature freeze, which would be higher priority
<elmo> cdimage.u.c is fine for now, as no one sane mirrors it anyway
<Kamion> mdz: (I was partly fending off thully)
<Kamion> pretty much all of my feature freeze work's done now; so grab me as soon as the seeds are vaguely sensible, basically
<Kamion> I'll stick them in http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/kubuntu/daily/ for now them
<Kamion> then
<elmo> I'll try and get kubuntu.com DNS to somewhere useful
<mdz> amu: are you confident in completing the work on the seeds?
<mdz> amu: you should only need to change desktop at this point
<amu> yep, i understood now, how it works
<Kamion> oh, one thing
<amu> yep, just looking it into 
<Kamion> amu: keep an eye on the 'deb size' figures at the bottom of base, desktop, and supported in germinate-output
<Kamion> sorry, base, desktop, and ship
<Kamion> you need to make sure the sum of those does not exceed the size of a CD minus a bit for the installer :)
<amu> Kamion: ok, i've to remmove openoffice on my test live kde is bigger than the gnome one
<Kamion> well, you have koffice
<elmo> gnome has abiword ;)
<amu> ;) 
<mdz> not on the CD
<amu> openoffice rocks
<haggai> rock OOo :)
* haggai really goes now
<mdz> Kamion: hmm, we have a problem
<mdz> Kamion: ubuntu-base is in the base seed
<mdz> I guess that's ok
<Kamion> mdz: changing that would involve changing debootstrap anyway
<mdz> right
<Kamion> amu: I suggest you check out germinate and get used to running it by hand
<Kamion> amu: the seeds checkout on people.u.c/~cjwatson/ is updated within 17 minutes of a commit; if you want output faster, or if you want to test before committing, change the SEEDS variable at the top of germinate.py
<amu> running it by hand? 
<mdz> amu: germinate is a Python program
<mdz> you can run it on the command line and it outputs a bunch of files
<Kamion> germinate is a program whose input is seeds and whose output is a dependency-expanded list of packages with some additional information
<Kamion> so that we don't have to write all the dependencies into the seeds by hand
<amu> i c, so germinate run on my local desk and checks my seed?  
<Kamion> germinate gets run automatically (a) by the archive scripts to work out what should be in main, (b) by the CD image building scripts to work out what should be on CDs, (c) informationally for http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/germinate-output/*
<Kamion> amu: yes, provided you fiddle with SEEDS to point at the right place
<Kamion> if you don't modify SEEDS, it will use the official seeds
<mdz> amu: http://www.ubuntu.com/wiki/SeedManagement
<amu> ah now got it. After an commit germinate will check within 17min., and the output therefore is at ~cjwatson/      
<Kamion> more that it takes 17 minutes for various cron jobs to shuffle commits to the seeds archive over to ~cjwatson/seeds/
<Kamion> in order that they are visible to unmodified germinate
<amu> is there something more i should take special care? something i could break?
<Kamion> basically best keep your changes to {desktop,ship,supported} for now, should only need to be desktop
<Kamion> if you break anything by doing that, it's a bug :)
<Kamion> 'baz update' every so often, as usual with revision control
<Kamion> only stuff prefixed by ' * ' ends up in the output
<Kamion> if you need help with germinate, I maintain it, so feel free to mail me or ping me on IRC
<amu> sound good, thanks
<Kamion> I have to go now; good luck :)
#ubuntu-meeting 2005-02-20
<mdz> ok
<jbailey> I've just offered to paste our conversation to him in /msg, just a sec.
<doko> just wanted to clarify the gcc-4.0 upload
<mdz> mpfr should be fine
<doko> autogen is for the fixincludes testsuite, I did replace type-handling
<mdz> autogen looks fine as well
<doko> currently 4.0 didn't branch yet. I'd like to make one update when gcc-4.0 is branched. that's not a guarantee that there are no more ABI changes, but it's closer to a release.
<doko> The only packages affected are libgcc1 and libobjc1, the others should be used by Jeff's Java stuff only.
<mdz> is this the same update that jbailey mentioned?
<doko> yes
<mdz> hmm
<mdz> libobjc1 is not very important
<mdz> but we would need to carefully review the libgcc changes
<jbailey> mdz: I did an ABI check yesterday on libgcc, and that's the same.
<mdz> jbailey said mid-to-late February
<jbailey> I haven't audited the changes between them, but it's easy enough.
<mdz> we need to be very careful as we approach preview freeze
<mdz> after preview we will be a bit less strict, but the preview release must be very solid
<doko> maybe more late February. OTOH, we can track libgcc1 specific changes in the upstream sources
<jbailey> mdz: http://gcc.gnu.org/ml/gcc/2005-02/msg00079.html is the message from Mark Mitchell (RM for GCC) saying that he plans to branch on Feb 24th.
<mdz> is it possible to reduce the number of gccs in main?
<mdz> with 4.0, that will be 3
<mdz> do we need all 3?
<doko> no. certainly not 3.3 at this point, 3.4 is currently configured for amd64 to be C++ ABI compatible with 3.3 to build the mozilla packages.
<mdz> gcc-3.4 seems to be used only for a few packages on amd64
<doko> yes, and maybe the kernel? at least the non-official Debian port uses it for the amd64 kernel packages
<mdz> we use the default compiler for the kernel
<jbailey> Does it address your concern if gcc-4 is the only thing providing Java, and it doesn't provide C, C++ packages?
<doko> ehh, we do have to provide C and C++, we can package them in the same package, but why?
<mdz> I don't mind if it builds the C and C++ compilers (they'll end up in universe)
<doko> no, they'll go to main, as gcj-4.0 depends on these.
<mdz> hmm, I did not realize that
<mdz> but still, not a big problem
<doko> the other question is, if we want to build gcc-4.0 for other languages, but they don't hurt in universe (fortran, objc, maybe ada)
<mdz> if they do not initroduce any new build-deps
<mdz> and they do not cause FTBFS on any release architectures
<mdz> then sure, no problem
<mdz> s/initr/intr/
<doko> I'm unsure if I can get the python plugin for eclipse uploaded until tomorrow...
<doko> that's why I currently disabled ada for all architectures. fails at least on ia64
<doko> ia64 is rel.arch?
<mdz> no
<doko> ok, then I can just disabled it for ia64.
<doko> you can find a current set of binaries on chinstrap:~doko/uploads. These should work on i386.
<mdz> if you are ready to upload, then please upload sooner rather than later
<mdz> especially if the remaining java work is dependent on it
<doko> ok, first thing I do tomorrow, however I do test builds before the upload.
<mdz> jbailey: you need gcc-4.0 before uploading eclipse stuff, right?
<jbailey> mdz: Yes.
<mdz> jbailey: is there anything else that we are targeting for main?
<jbailey> mdz: No.  That was actually going to be one of my questions is whether eclipse was approved for main or universe.
<jbailey> main would be nicer, at least for ecj.  The rest of it could go into universe for now.
<mdz> if it's supportable, it should go into main
<jbailey> Yeah, I think it is.  There's a huge community around it.
<mdz> are they mostly using commercial JVMs with it?
<mdz> will we be on our own with gcj, or are there others taking the same path?
<jbailey> FC4 has compiled eclipse with gcj.
<doko> redhat ...
<mdz> ok, good
<doko> btw, I did talk to Michael Koch, who does a lot of libgcj/classpath stuff upstream. He does seem to have time, so if something needs to be done on this side ...
<mdz> we talked with him about gcjwebplugin, but he said it would be a very large project and take a lot of time
<jbailey> doko: He no longer has alot of time, he's just accepted a job offer.
<mdz> are there any applications, other than eclipse, that we can use to "show off" our java functionality in hoary?
<jbailey> He does have 10% person time to allocate to various things, and I think he's planning on using it for mostly classpath related stuff.
<doko> well, we can look at the rhug site and see what is worth including ...
<jbailey> mdz: Only things that really want useful SecurityManager support.  I spoke to Michael about that, and he said that it's not possible to do a stub one.
<mdz> so can we get all of this into hoary sometime tomorrow (earlier is better)?
<mdz> jbailey: can we get tomcat working?
<jbailey> mdz: I think so.  I can beat on that one hard.
<mdz> or that file sharing app that everyone seems to use, I forget the name
<mdz> I think we probably shouldn't go crazy with bringing Java apps into main for hoary, but it would be nice to have a bunch of stuff ready-to-run in universe
<mdz> and eclipse in main
<jbailey> mdz:  Is universe locked down after tomorrow as well?
<mdz> jbailey: no, we'll be fairly liberal with universe
<jbailey> mdz: 'kay.  I can see about encouraging folks who've spoken to me about Java to get stuff into universe.
<jbailey> The MOTU fast track stuff might be nice incentive. =)
<mdz> right
<mdz> ogra has been doing some recruiting activities
<mdz> Java should give him additional ammunition
<mdz> anything else?
<doko> ok, my cough is getting worse, I'll sleep now. mdz, until when are you available tomorrow morning UTC?
<jbailey> doko: nasty, don't let it get you.  I lost a pile of last week to coughing/sneezing/fever last week.
<mdz> doko: I'm usually here starting at 1700 or 1800 UTC
<mdz> doko: good night
<doko> mdz: no, I meant tomorrow morning
<mdz> doko: 1700 UTC is tomorrow morning for me
<mdz> oh, morning UTC
<jbailey> doko: You two are 10 hours apart. =)
<doko> mdz: ok, when do you leave tonight ;)
<mdz> I am not usually awake after 0800 UTC
<doko> ok, let's try to talk at 07:00 UTC?
<mdz> ok, I expect to be online at that time
<doko> fine, good night!
* netjoined: irc.freenode.net -> kornbluth.freenode.net
#ubuntu-meeting 2006-02-13
<blackmanda> Ciao 
<blackmanda> Hello...
<blackmanda> Somebody can help me with my new Kubuntu installation??
<MarioMeyer_> Riddell, ping
<JaneW> hello
<kjcole> hi
<licio> hi
<flint_> good morning jane, nice reporting from the sprint.  
<jsgotangco> cheers
<kjcole> flint, suck  up.
<JaneW> flint_: thanks
<JaneW> I had to get creative
<flint_> I have coffee today kevin, and I am a suck up!
<flint_> :^)
<JaneW> there are only so many ways to say 'everyone threw up today' ;)
<jsgotangco> heh
<flint_> yea that was interesting... still haven't talked to matt was he sick?
<ogra> say "kate moss wednesday" 
<jsgotangco> food poisoning can be bad
<JaneW> Wednesday was the worst of it
<ajmitch_> JaneW: sounds like the aftermath of linux.conf.au :)
<JaneW> yes Matt was sick
<kjcole> ogra,  ouch!  harsh.  ;-)
<flint_> ubuntu sprints on its stomach....
<JaneW> it was more a virus than food poisoning I think
<jsgotangco> at least it wasnt the distro sprint of doom
<ogra> kjcole, but matches somehow ;)
<jsgotangco> only death
<jsgotangco> =)
<JaneW> well I am calling it the Gastro Sprint now ;)
<ajmitch_> yes, LCA had the linux virus of doom striking down attendees
<JaneW> ok are we all here?
<jsgotangco> gastro sprint ewww
<JaneW> ajmitch_: :/
<flint_> ogra, ollie i got a flight3 install questioin swtiching channels...
<ogra> is highvoltage around for website stuff ? 
<mhz> hi all
<ogra> flint_, i answered it yesterday
<JaneW> is jelkner planning to attend?
* mhz had not seen the time
<JaneW> I think he wanted to go first again today?
<kjcole> no jelkner...
<ogra> flint_, but feel free to ask again ;)
<JaneW> kjcole: you wanna do it
<flint_> ogra, on the irc?
<ogra> yes
<JaneW> hi hno73 
<jsgotangco> heh mark suggested a docteam sprint in london...that can be scary
<kjcole> hold a sec
<JaneW> jsgotangco: brace yourself!
<JaneW> highvoltage: you here?
<hno73> hi JaneW
<JaneW> we need to make web decisions today - or at least confirm them
<jsgotangco> henrik!
<hno73> jsgotangco: ! (sorry I was away friday)
<JaneW> ok who has updates for me?
<kjcole> I'll be brief. 
* jsgotangco just uploaded new edubuntu-docs and will prepare a script to publish on doc.ubuntu.com for preview
<flint_> I am supposed to be standing in for Jeffster...
<flint_> kevin should report.
<ogra> ltsp had 36 code commits since last week ... we support a lot more options now (serial mice, 16Bit graphics cards etc) and i did a lot of fixes ...
<JaneW> jsgotangco: great thanks :)
<jsgotangco> serial finally got tested?
<JaneW> belated Hi mhz
<ogra> i'm just starting to prepare for flight 4, testing and feedback before would be fine ...
<mhz> ;)
<kjcole> Not a lot to report, actually.  Working with a lore developer, we now have an indexing system (or the beginnings of one)
<JaneW> yes ogra was busy last week
<JaneW> (and not just drinking) ;)
<JaneW> ogra: does flight 4 have a date yet?
<jsgotangco> yeah right he's caught on camera with a bottle of bourbon or something..
<JaneW>  I haven't heard...
<ogra> additionally i have a good bunch of code offered by the debian ltsp team ... i'm currently reviewing their patches#
<JaneW> jsgotangco: yup ;)
<ogra> JaneW, filght CDs never have a date ... only a rough "this week" 
<ogra> it depends on the bugs we find during building the CDs :)
<kjcole> I just secured some space at my school where we can set up a Dapper Edubuntu "lab" and work from that to get a real feel for how it all fits together.
<ogra> thats why testing *before* is so important
<ogra> (which nobody but me is doing normally :( )
* jsgotangco volunteers to test amd64
<ogra> yay !
<flint_> ogra, ollie you seem to be on a workstation binge.  Anything you are working on the server side?
<JaneW> jsgotangco: you are great!
<JaneW> thanks
<mhz> ogra: I do apologize for not being helpfull at all in this testings but I have almost no hardware where i can test now
<JaneW> ogra: right but as the magic date gets near it becomes apparent, no?
<kjcole> mhz will be pleased to know that jelkner has "seen the light" and we're trying to keep something on the wiki in parallel with our docs.
* jsgotangco has 3 amd64 machines at his disposal at the moment
<flint_> ogra, The Veromont testing facility is spooling up to speed.
<ogra> cool :)
<ogra> mhz, you do enough ... i only want people with decent bandwith to be testers
<kjcole> Bad news: We don't think we'll have something mid-april.  Shortly thereafter, is jelkner's prediction.
<jsgotangco> its ok
<flint_> ogra, I will be sending you a copy of the Vermont Lab facility documentation when complete.
<ogra> flint_, great :)
<mhz> ogra: good potential news is that on friday/monday I should have a definit answer wether I have at least a 5 pc lab and one server to test Edubuntu whatever and invite teachers to it, to give us feedback on monthly basis :D
<ogra> kjcole, the #edubuntu channel is grown a bit recently ... probably you can recruit more people there
<jsgotangco> i notice a trend on #edubuntu though, a lot of people ask about desktop apps rather than server
<jsgotangco> just today i had 3 random people asking
<kjcole> We're looking at qemu as a possible screen-capture mechanism (among other things).
<ogra> jsgotangco, yes
<jsgotangco> kjcole, imagemagick can't do enough for app-specific sceencaps?
<kjcole> A lot of my week has been LoCo-related and getting space for the lab.
<mhz> jsgotangco: yup, seen that too. And in #edubuntu-es.. many users show up just for 'ubuntu-stuff' rlated issues :(
<jsgotangco> yeah
<ogra> mhz, point them to #ubuntu
<kjcole> jsgotangco, we're hoping for screen captures from the get-go: The splash screen, and at least some of the install screens that are Edubuntu specific -- LTSP NG DHCP config etc. 
<jsgotangco> mostly newbies though, lots of patience needed
<jsgotangco> kjcole, qemu =)
<jsgotangco> VMWare GSX Server =)
<mhz> ogra: they usually come from #ubuntu or #ubuntu-es
<ogra> mhz, but #edubuntu(-es) is not for general #ubuntu stuff 
<JaneW> kjcole: we really need a cook book for 6.04 - even if it's lean
<jsgotangco> yeah
<JaneW> kjcole: we missed it for 5.10 which was dissapointing
* jsgotangco failed the first time
<ogra> mhz, we support the edu apps and ltsp in #edubuntu ...
<kjcole> Will inform jelkner
<JaneW> is there no way we can get ppl to collaborate with you?
<JaneW> it's the one thing ppl would like to help with
<mhz> ogra: heheh, yeah, but 2 users who usually help on little edubuntu stuff (testing, mainly) have complained that if nobody is talking, why not give help on ubuntu topics in the mean time :(
<JaneW> I know you guys are aiming for perfection, but I;d be happy with 'good enough' - on time
<JaneW> no pressure ;)
<jsgotangco> at least something to review
<jsgotangco> :)
<mhz> ogra: edubuntu-es is usually 4 people and 3 or 5 more that come twice a week
<mhz> hence the urgent need of "the tour" idea :)
<mhz> urgent = maybe not
<jsgotangco> mhz, i think ES is your sphere of expertise, you are very much authoritative to decide on what's best
<flint_> mhz, I have never been on ubuntu-es what is so special?
* jsgotangco no habla espanol
<flint_> mhz, i ment edubuntu-es...
<mhz> jsgotangco: maybe yes that's why before scaring or inviting people go somewhere else, I usally take some vitamin C and patience and let them ask ooftopics :)
<spacey__> hi
<mhz> flint_: oh, just supposed to be another channel but for edubuntu users/admins needing support and help
<flint_> oh, ok.
<mhz> ogra: good thing is there are many people subsrcibed to ML (weired)
<flint_> JaneW, maybe we need a docsprint.  we writers want to get wretching sick from hotel food...
<flint_> :^)
<mhz> lol
<JaneW> heh
* mhz is so much wanting to put hands on CookBook translation and maybe additions
<JaneW> so what's the plans for the next week?
<jsgotangco> flint_, you'll probably get your wish by the end of march if things go well
<JaneW> also where is highvoltage ?
<flint_> JaneW, you would be invited to bring your world famous collection of beadpans!
<kjcole> JaneW, I'm not opposed to the idea...  I've been following jelkner's lead, since he'd published a book and I haven't. 
<flint_> kjcole, "those who cannot do...teach"
<spacey__> sorry for being late, but was there a list of documentation missing? last week was noted that such a list would be avail this week. ?
<JaneW> flint_: I supply Amarula to those that behave....http://www.kdedevelopers.org/node/1789
<kjcole> Also, there was the business of choosing Twisted Lore over Docbook or wiki, though as I say, he's now been convinced to at least start using the wiki for collaboration.
<jsgotangco> amarula?
<jsgotangco> ahhh
<flint_> that is a great shot of ollie hunched over a keyboard...
<jsgotangco> liquer or something...
<kjcole> Jeff put an outline in place of what was on the wiki before and we're hoping to add to that this week from our Lore docs.
<JaneW> kjcole: think we can get it done somehow?
<mhz> kjcole: flint_: I am collecting pieces of info because if all my plans go well, in May I'll start a book about Edubuntu
<mhz> and obvioulsy reinventinn the wheel is my worst option
<flint_> JaneW, ever do a project plam?
<flint_> mhz, is this stuff up on the docbox yet?
<JaneW> flint_: sure, they are most ignored
<flint_> mhz, you have an account.
<JaneW> flint_: at best they are snap shots in this non-conformist community
<flint_> JaneW, you never send me your project plans... I am hurt!
<jsgotangco> bzr..*cough*
<flint_> I read science fiction avidly
<mhz> flint_: can we have a short 'let's talk' after meeting in #edubuntu, with coffee on table?
<kjcole> JaneW, Dunno.  I've not done any collaborative work before.  I'll try to get jelkner et al onto #edubuntu later today and see if we can speed things up.
<mhz> jsgotangco: you mean ! :D
<flint_> I have a window up for both you and ollie...
<JaneW> kjcole: I realise it's putting pressure on you, but we can give you more ppl, will you talk to jelkner about the first edition not needing to be PERFECT (not that we'd mind if it is) ;)
<flint_> JaneW, you know I would never defend these two if I did not see their problem.  The issue here is the classic infastructure one of women months and babies. Get it?
<kjcole> JaneW, understood.
<flint_> you cannot add more women and get the baby faster than 9 months.
<flint_> the reason I thought project plan was to get some subtask milestones to shoot at.
<jsgotangco> huh?
<mhz> kjcole: _o/   \o/    \o_     (a cheering you!  based on CC meetings) 
<flint_> a project plan is sort of like kicking the mother to induce premature birth...
<flint_> saves you a month but is tough on the baby :^
<jsgotangco> why was it not raised from the start?
<kjcole> There's also the issue of documenting something that's a moving target.  (It would be nice to document what Edubuntu WILL be in April, rather than what it WAS in October or MIGHT be.)
<flint_> jsgotangco, hindsight is 20/20, this enterprise is geared to hacking software, not writing books.  The infastructure for hacing code (eg bzr) is in place.  Does this work for books? 
<kjcole> However, I realize that it's probably reasonably settled now and from Flight whatever we should be working with something close to the finished look and feel...
<jsgotangco> it works for the docteam surely
<kjcole> There is that.
<flint_> what kevin and jeff ( and maybe me) have been involved with has been forging the tools to write the book.
<mhz> kjcole: but if we can get something done based on breezy, in a couple of weeks we could have dapper ready
<JaneW> flint_: what kind of subtasks you looking for?
<mhz> (even after release)
<jsgotangco> we've relesed preview docs since flight 2
<JaneW> flint_: if you are refering to the cook book, that was left up to Msrs Elkner and Cole to handle
<flint_> JaneW, you and I have got to fight that out offline...
<flint_> JaneW, they are doing it, I bear witness to that.  are they moving as fast as the developers? nah.
<JaneW> ok highvoltage is still not here, but we have discussed the option of using MoinMoin for the whole edubuntu site instead of Drupal
<JaneW> mhz: what do you think of that?
<kjcole> Mea (or whatever the Latin for "we" is) culpa.
<flint_> as soon as they get a section done, (say the installation section) I read in your reports that there is a graphical user interface for dapper!!!!!
<JaneW> hno73: thin we can call it decided now? (MoinMoin instead of drupal?)
<JaneW> thin=think
<flint_> JaneW, moinmoin drupal who cares that is not the book.
<jsgotangco> go Moin
<hno73> JaneW: I think so yes
<jsgotangco> its pretty damn stable
<mhz> JaneW: hehehe, I know Moin has some limitations (php can obvioulsy deal with much more "features" today) but I am not sure these limitations do affect edubuntu-gang purposes
<jsgotangco> and we already got working proofs
<freeflying> hno73: hi
<mhz> JaneW: however, Moin 1.5 lets you do more stuff
<jsgotangco> meh
* hno73 is just re-doing the main site community section with pretty icons: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Website/CommunitySection
<hno73> the layout is quite flexible
<hno73> hi freeflying :)
<spacey__> possible to link the edubuntu site with all the other logins? launchpad/ubuntu wiki?
<spacey__> think that is important criterium
<flint_> spacey__, that would be the best!
<hno73> spacey__: yes, that's possible
<freeflying> hno73: I'd prepare using moinmoin for www.kubuntu.org.cn ,will u give me any advice?
<mhz> JaneW: jsgotangco: however, I would not feel comfrotable if we dont see/test highvoltage efforts on drupal
<spacey__> i think that is one of most important points at least
<JaneW> mhz: are you willing to help us with Moin magic?
<flint_> spacey__, this issue of namespace is an infastructure issue that mere writers should not be inconvienced by, and they currently are...
<mhz> JaneW: OF COURSE!
* mhz apologizes for the caps but you know Moin is my other 'lover' :D
<hno73> freeflying: look at the 'balanced' themes here: http://moinmoin.wikiwikiweb.de/ThemeMarket 
<mhz> jsgotangco: and yes, moin as 'loverl is a scary thought :D
<hno73> they are nearly the same as the ubunt/kubuntu ones
<jsgotangco> heh
<hno73> (I should post some updates soon)
<mhz> hno73: I downloaded balanced 2 days ago :D
<freeflying> hno73: may we use the artwork of kubuntu ?
<mhz> freeflying: yes, you can
<JaneW> mhz: yay, that was the response I was HOPING FOR :)
<mhz> ;p
<JaneW> we have 12 mins left, is there anything else official to discuss?
<hno73> mhz: I'll send you the latest copy of my theme (it's fairly stable now)
<JaneW> does every/anyone want these meetings more structured?
<mhz> hno73: I will email you about my questions.. yesterday the phone call was too long and after that I had to do other stuff
<spacey__> that would be nice
<jsgotangco> im cool with the current stuff
<spacey__> structure
<mhz> hno73: thx!
<spacey__> but i really missed that part on missing documentation?
<flint_> JaneW, we have the doc section and the programming section.
<ogra> JaneW, just going back to the structure we once had would already suffice
<mhz> hno73: and one of the topics is I do want to make a CSS for a11y
<ogra> we once had structure
<ogra> it just vanished over the last meetings
<mhz> hno73: so, edubuntu users could choose a11y theme if needed
<hno73> mhz: I pretty much have that complete, just need to sort out some javascript magic for switching
<mhz> JaneW: so basically your idea is I help hno73 i guess?
<flint_> ogra, I think the structure comes from the participants, elkner helps a lot to keep me in check :^)
<mhz> JaneW: and what will happen to highvoltage's efforts on drupal? lost?
<JaneW> ogra: I agree, I would prefer to handle the tech side first..
<hno73> mhz: or rather that I help you :)
<ogra> flint_, we started off with a clear structure who speaks when ...
<JaneW> but jelkner normally attends for 15 mins or so and wants to talk docs
<ogra> that disappeared
<mhz> JaneW: yes, I liked your 'structure'  for metings
<JaneW> the trouble is the docs stuff tends to ramble
<flint_> ogra: janew: elkner indicated he could not be here he will be back.
<mhz> hno73: we help each other :D
<JaneW> let's agree for next week we go back to the original
<ogra> yes
<JaneW> Tech progress and calls for testing etc
<JaneW> the Docs progress and calls for help
<JaneW> then Artwork update and calls for help 
<JaneW> etc
<ogra> we can shuffle around the bits, but keep a bit of dicipline 
<JaneW> yes agreed
<flint_> I would like to throw the floor open to nominate a dominatrix.
<ogra> (phew, that sounds so german)
* ogra blushes
<JaneW> as I think we are getting limited benefit now
<mhz> yes, structure!
<mhz> +1
<freeflying> hno73: how shall I configure moinmoin , and make it perform like www.ubuntu.com ?
<JaneW> +++
<mhz> ogra: we know you just can't help it :)
<JaneW> freeflying: you going to help too?
<freeflying> JaneW: I just want to host www.kubuntu.org.cn using moin
<ogra> mhz, i'm the chaos in person ... 
<hno73> freeflying: ubuntu.com uses mod_proxy to deal with heavy trafic, but that's a special case
<jsgotangco> i'll email the list when the script for doc.ubuntu.com is done showing edubuntu-docs
<ogra> its not my usual behavior to sound german
<mhz> hno73: so you prefer email better than irc?
<mhz> ogra: stop drinking then!
<mhz> :D
<ogra> heh
<freeflying> hno73: I know about this
<flint_> ogra, truth is you sound practically dutch most of the time :^)
<hno73> freeflying: See http://www.theopencd.org/ for a site that uses moin to do pretty much the same thing
<JaneW> ogra: when can we start drafting the edubuntu flight 4 announcement?
<ogra> flint_, lol
<hno73> mhz: yes please :)
<JaneW> let's try to get it out quicker this time
<ogra> JaneW, as soon as you like ...
<flint_> mhz, lol
<spacey__> hm, i'm off, bb
<ogra> i bet there is a flight 4announcement for ubuntu prepared already
<ogra> (a draft)
<JaneW> ogra: ok I'll look for that
<hno73> freeflying: if you email me on henrik@ubuntu.com I can send you my latest theme files and some suggestions
<JaneW> can you send me notable edu progress and enhancements
<flint_> JaneW, one proposal for structure would be to divide into three sections, software, documentation, and web.
<mhz> hno73: no problem, I can do it and we can add 'urgent' when I need responses in a day time ?
<freeflying> hno73: yep , just what I want , but how to configure moin 
<ogra> JaneW, sure
<JaneW> I'll tack it together and then we can edit finely together
<mhz> JaneW: yes,m there is
<ogra> freeflying, thats somehow offtopinc in a edubuntu meeting ...
<freeflying> ogra: sorry
<ogra> but i guess we're done anyway
<jsgotangco> \o_ \o/  theopencd.org  \o/ _o/
<ogra> so go ahead :)
<JaneW> ogra: will the flight be out this week or next (your guestimate)
<mhz> hno73: what if you upload the theme to wiki:HenrikOmma
<hno73> freeflying: well, 'how to configure' is a big question. Do you want just the conf files, acl settings, a detailed tutorial?
<ogra> JaneW, i guess weekendish
<JaneW> ok
<freeflying> ogra: after kubuntu.org.cn , we shall host edubuntu.org.cn
<ogra> ah 
<ogra> i didnt get that
<hno73> freeflying: It's difficult to know what place you are starting from. Do you have moin set up for a start?
<mhz> jsgotangco: at least I started translating some bits of tocd
<jsgotangco> mhz, yay!
<ogra> freeflying, then its on topic ;)
<freeflying> hno73: I have setup moin  kubuntu.3322.org
<freeflying> hno73: I have setup moin  http://kubuntu.3322.org
<JaneW> ogra: ubuntu is planning to have flash intros will we just have a progress bar?
<freeflying> hno73: so I want configure moin like  official website 
<jsgotangco> flash?
<flint_> JaneW, oh god please no flash!!!
<kjcole> gotta  run...  i  hope some  of  us  be chatting  before next week.    will  try to set  something  up.
<highvoltage> hi. sorry, i'm here
<mhz> JaneW: one thing b4 you leave...
<flint_> kjcole, good job, keep it up!
<jsgotangco> flash?
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: not as in macromedia, i presume
<jsgotangco> jeezz i hope not!
<hno73> freeflying: I see, that's already quite good. OK, I'll send you further instructions on email
<mhz> JaneW: meeting minutes are sooooo hard to keep on current moin setup
<flint_> ogra, if they put flash up on the web, you gotta rewrite in visual studio.  Any problems with that?
<Kamion> flash> this is in the context of espresso (live installer), and it would be Flash 3 so that the free players can deal with it
<flint_> :^)
<mhz> JaneW: I'd love to see some solution proposals with hno73 
<freeflying> hno73: thx
<jsgotangco> Kamion, thanks for clearing that up
<mhz> highvoltage: hey!!!
<ogra> JaneW, lets have the same ubuntu has ... but as i said i wont focus on express ...
<highvoltage> mhz: hi
<ogra> my main target is the install CD, since thats what we'll have pressed
<jsgotangco> hold on
<flint_> highvoltage, good morning Jonathan!
<highvoltage> hi flint!
<jsgotangco> are we doing the livecd route?
<ogra> nope
<jsgotangco> ok
<highvoltage> (got the name right again!)
<mhz> ogra: JaneW: any news from designer work?
<jsgotangco> so no espresson
<ogra> we'll have a live iso ...
<highvoltage> ogra: so we'll have plain old d-i? yay!
<flint_> highvoltage, I am practicing...
<ogra> and it will have esporesso for the workstation install 
<flint_> highvoltage, thanks.
<ogra> highvoltage, the server part doesnt fit on the live CD 
<highvoltage> ah, ok.
<jsgotangco> \o_ \o/  edubuntu  \o/ _o/
<ogra> the pressed CDs will be the install CDs ...
<JaneW> mhz: feel free to abandon that format, bullets or wahtever works isfine
<ogra> as long as we focus on ltsp and server stuff it will stay this way
<freeflying> ogra: if you can provide us a well Chinese supportted livecd , it will be efficient promote edubuntu in china
<ogra> freeflying, lets see ... i'm not sure we can fit this many languages on the live iso
<mhz> JaneW: oh, okis
<JaneW> ogra: I think the issue was that the flash stuff feature Ubuntu so wouldn;t really go with edubuntu - what do you think?
<mhz> JaneW: designer news?
* ogra would love to drop the KDE apps, that would solve all problems instantly
<ogra> JaneW, why shouldnt it go with edubuntu ?=
<jsgotangco> ogra, but you'll loose a lot of edu apps
<JaneW> mhz: I have not heard anything no, but I know we are getting 1 set of designs
<ogra> its justa flash movie ...
<flint_> ogra, can we fork edubuntu to edukbumutu?
<flint_> er edukubuntu
<JaneW> ogra: well it will look diff for a start won't it?
<mhz> JaneW: when could we know?
<ogra> jsgotangco, some have a valid replacement in gnome 
<ogra> (but not all)
<JaneW> we need ppl making gnome apps - please
<jsgotangco> ogra, if its justifiable and still ok for dapper i guess that's a good compromise
* mhz says we should not include or promote flash movies... it's against our manifesto
<ogra> JaneW, making a screencapture is an easy task ...
<JaneW> mhz: Jane Silber handles that according to the artwork deadline
<JaneW> mhz: I think she is handing briefs over this week
<highvoltage> sorry, i don't have time to catch up on the older messages, did hno73 mention anything about the website?
<ogra> jsgotangco, amd64 and powerpc isos are constantly overflown
<jsgotangco> argghhh
<mhz> JaneW: okis...it's just that I'd love to see something
<JaneW> ogra: ok maybe we can do some with our stuff. Corey is handling the content we should speak to him.
<ogra> KDE takes a hell lot of space ....
<JaneW> mhz: me too
<ogra> and i doubt its justified for the 5 KDE apps we ship
<jsgotangco> ogra, ok i'll evaluate this weekend
<JaneW> mhz: howvere like last time it;s one of the last pieces of the puzzle and is not completed or released until right near the end
<mhz> ogra: I have looked for gnome apps... not very successfully
<ogra> jsgotangco, king could esily be replaced by drgeo ... it finally matured ... for example
<highvoltage> ok, i'm almost on my way out so just some notes on edubuntu web/wiki site
<JaneW> highvoltage: we decided on moin in your absence - ok>
<JaneW> ?
<ogra> mhz, there are a lot
<mhz> ogra: but I have found xmaxima (GTK) for higher levels
<jsgotangco> yeah
<highvoltage> JaneW: yep, that's good, i cancelled the drupal with Znarl (much to his delight)
<JaneW> where are the gnome app ppl?
<mhz> ogra: equivalents??
<JaneW> heh, thanks
<ogra> mhz, yes
<ogra> not for all of them ...
<highvoltage> and as far as i understand mhz is going to work with hno73 and do some nice moin tweaking
<ogra> but for dapper its to late for such a big change anyway
<highvoltage> so that we can do everything with moin we could with drupal.
<JaneW> highvoltage: I only figured out yesterday that drupal is 'drupal' <- afrikaans (well dutch actually) for drop
<flint_> ogra, when is code freeze for dapper?
<JaneW> hence the water droplet logo d'oh!
<ogra> flint_, feature freezy is 23rd 
<JaneW> so from now on it's pronounced dripel ppl
<jsgotangco> ogra, we can still drop the kde apps we're still not in freature freeze yet
<ogra> and i'm busy with ltsp and edubuntu-artwork until then
<mhz> ogra: I can do testings for apps, that this HW can do ok
<JaneW> jsgotangco: er but we'd need to add replacements, and not sure we can still do that...
<flint_> ogra, I blame all this talk of the dutch on you... :^)
<ogra> jsgotangco, but there is no time to get replacements in and if it fails we cant go back
<jsgotangco> right
<jsgotangco> but overflowing images ain't good
<jsgotangco> (for other arches at least)
<ogra> i'll have to drop stuff, indeed
<JaneW> agreed, but we have had that problem for a long time now
<highvoltage> it'll be available on universe though
<ogra> and shuffle a bit ...
<highvoltage> ogra: how do you feel about a semi-official edubuntu add-on CD?
<ogra> lets just keep in mind to check the option to go gnome only in dapper+1  ...
<mhz> highvoltage: add-on cd?
<Riddell> ogra: how about all the python modules
<highvoltage> ogra: i'm not suggesting it, since i don't have time for it, but i think it's necassary to think about it
<flint_> highvoltage, the ticket here is to use the automatix framework for addons.
<ogra> Riddell, i'll manage, dont woirry ....
<highvoltage> mhz: a CD with some additional .deb's for KDE support and additional, relevant software
<mhz> ogra: cool, dapper +1. This way I can more easily make that edubuntu lite thing
<ogra> Riddell, if i drop python stuff elkner will come to my house and whine 24h a day ...
<highvoltage> flint_: automatix? you've got a link to that?
<ogra> highvoltage, no option for dapper
<ogra> eeek
<mhz> highvoltage: ahh, good idea
<highvoltage> ogra: and after that?
<jmont> hello all, sorry that I am late for the meeting
<ogra> stop even talking about automatix crack while i'm in the room please ... i might go blind
<flint_> highvoltage, google "ubuntu automatix"  it is multimedia heaven for breezy
<ogra> automatics is the suck ...
<jsgotangco> heaven for people at the first but hell when they try to uninstall and upgrade
<ogra> it breaks users systems and upgradeability  ...
<flint_> ogra, sorry ma man. it is a hack indeed
<ogra> i wont even give a line of support to any user who touched it ...
* mhz dislikes the automatix idea, flint_ ... too much a user dont see can't be good
<flint_> ogra, but it is in the spirit of hackish ness...
<jsgotangco> oh you can see it, but its not a pretty sight
<JaneW> ok our time is up.
<ogra> its not supportable and breaks systems in intresting ways ... please dont advise it to anyone
<jsgotangco> scary sources.list
<highvoltage> ah yes, it does seem quite sucky, although we've done similar things in tuxlabs, due for change after we switch to dapper, of course.
<flint_> ogra, i hear you.  however the framework that it developed may prove useful for addons.
<mhz> jsgotangco: yes! well said. Automatix = Norton stuff
<mhz> jsgotangco: I mean, they are = when trying to uninstall or upgrade :D
<jsgotangco> yeah
<highvoltage> hacks are good in my opinion, but when it breaks more than it fixes, it's not worth while
<ogra> flint_, synaptic is fine for addon stuff 
<flint_> ogra, I am just pleased that I can still create FITS on the channel!
<jmont> isn't possible to made an Automatix version that simply don't break the system?
<jsgotangco> we should probably put edubuntu love in gnome-app-install
<highvoltage> i was thinking of synaptic for the edubuntu add-on cd
<highvoltage> apt-cdrom add ; apt-get install edubuntu-addons-all
<JaneW> ok I need to dash, thanks guys, and let's aim for more structure next time. So we can get to the good discussions sooner!
<jsgotangco> jmont, gnome-app-install is much saner on this regard and can accomodate multiverse apps if needed
<highvoltage> yes, cheers!
* ogra goes for food
<flint_> JaneW, good talking.  Ollie I may call you!
<mhz> JaneW: +1
<jmont> jsgotangco, I undestand... so we should make gnome-app-install better than Automatix, and make ads about it
<jmont> I mean, I know gnome-app-install is better... but we should improve it even more
* mhz goes back to #edubuntu and invites everyone there for a coffee break with JaneW's famous cakes
<flint_> jmont, keep in mind the framework is what i found facinating.  
<jsgotangco> sure its a nifty bash script
<jsgotangco> it can be improved upon
<flint_> ogra, thanks for your insight on automatix
<jmont> I understand..
<flint_> ogra, i will contact you when I am back on the edubuntu machine...
<jmont> flint_, Automatix is C/C++ powered?
<flint_> jmont, na it is a buncha bash scripts with a gui on top (maybe pycard)
<jsgotangco> nope it looks more like a python card script
<flint_> jsgotangco, ollie is correct it is NOT to ubuntu standard...
<flint_> honestly that is what I found most charming about it.
<flint_> ...and it gave me muich multimedia...
<flint_> be back soon...
<jsgotangco> sure it gets lots of votes on the bling factor
<jsgotangco> i guess we cool now eh?
<jmont> yup
<jsgotangco> cool i'm grabbing some late nite dinner
<jmont> btw, what time is it in GTM/UTC?
<freeflying> jmont: date --utc
<jmont> thanks!
<jmont> btw (again), do anybody know a nice backup utility?
<jmont> i have tryed rsnapshot, but i need somethink I can upload to an remote FTP backup server (like .tar.gz's)
<jmont> that dont spend too much disk space
<jmont> (i will ask this in #ubuntu, sorry)
<MarioMeyer_> Riddell, ping
<Riddell> MarioMeyer_: hi
<Riddell> MarioMeyer_: -> #kubuntu-devel
<sorush20> guys will ubuntu have a recovery option? 
<sorush20> is the meeting going to happen today? 
<sorush20> has it happened already? 
<sorush20> to be able to recover they system if an upgrade has gone wrong and your system has stoped responding/ 
<sorush20> that would be and excellent feature
<Kamion> sorush20: try 'rescue' on the install CD, or use a live CD
<Kamion> please ask in #ubuntu in future rather than #ubuntu-meeting - this is a special-purpose channel and not really for general questions
<sorush20> I want to put a take over bid for conocial 
<azeem> sorush20: wrong channel
#ubuntu-meeting 2006-02-14
<mdz> JaneW: do we have a quorum?
<dholbach> good morning
<Kamion> morning
<Mithrandir> ehlo
* jsgotangco waves from the bleacher section
* fabbione waves
<JaneW> mdz: yes I think so
<JaneW> just checking now
<JaneW> haven't had a response from BenC yet
<JaneW> I did mail him separately an hour ago too.
<JaneW> mdz: we have apologies from infinty, as Zofia is still very ill and requiring care. I have his update though.
* ogra yawns
<Riddell> morning
* pitti waves
* mvo blings
<dholbach> ah mvo
<JaneW> ping: ajmitch, BenC, doko, , jdub,   mjg59, mvo, 
<mdz> mvo is here
<mvo> hello 
<BenC> here
* dholbach hugs mvo
<JaneW> hello all
* dholbach calls doko
<JaneW> ok quite a few are still missing
<dholbach> hey seb128
<seb128> morning
<seb128> hi dholbach
<dholbach> hrm, mailbox.
* Kamion will try phoning Diziet
<mdz> good morning everyone
<mdz> JaneW: any update from ajmitch?
<JaneW> no
<Kamion> Diziet is on his way
<mdz> ok
<mdz> BenC: you're up
<BenC> community-server-hardware-testing: Announcement was held off until daily-builds are more automated.
<BenC> kernel bug work: 14394 - cdrecord/k3b/kernel issues, bugs related to ipw2200 firmware errors, firware related bug, bugs related to SMP regressions on amd64
<BenC> additonal, daily builds will be automated starting tomorrow
<mdz> BenC: the announcement shouldn't be contingent on the daily builds; users can start testing using the kernel in Dapper
<mdz> please send it out today
<BenC> ok
<pitti> hi Ian
* JaneW will mail ajmitch for an update
<iwj> pitti: Ug.
<mdz> BenC: apart from daily builds, preventing-hardware-support-regressions had some other components, like calling on users to test
<mdz> BenC: did that happen as well?
<BenC> yeah, that was a second announcement that needs to go out
<mdz> ok, that should be marked as in progress until all of the steps are complete
<BenC> that one was contingent on daily builds needing to work :)
<mdz> thanks BenC
<mdz> dholbach: ?
<BenC> right, I'll revert that
<dholbach> example-content: first bits and pieces packaged and uploaded, is in NEW
<dholbach> this week (done): visited London, caught a cold, tried to catch up with bugs, random other bits
<dholbach> this week (todo): more bugs
<dholbach> next week: GNOME 2.13.91 (beginning of the week), bug day (end of the week), apt-get.org review
<mdz> dholbach: just a cold rather  than the death plague?
<dholbach> Yeah, just a cold, nothing that prevents me from working. :-)
<mdz> if you don't rest, it will last longer
<dholbach> I'll be fine, it isn't that bad.
<mdz> dholbach: have the test-plans been announced to the community?
<dholbach> Not yet. I will do it asap.
<mdz> dholbach: also include a note in the next Flight announcement that users who want to test can use the provided test plans
<dholbach> Right.
<mdz> thanks
<mdz> doko?
<doko> [status] 
<doko> - no changes from last week, besides
<doko> - openoffice.org: one more test build, computer at home unreachable at the moment
<doko> [this week] 
<doko> - vacation day
<doko> - dropping python2.3
<doko> - bug tracking work
<mdz> doko: are you back at home now, or still in london?
<doko> mdz: still in London, going back to Berlin tonight
<mdz> will dropping python2.3 involve rolling out python-central, or using the old approach?
<doko> pycentral will be used for private modules at the moment, there are still concerns, which I discussed yesterday with elmo and Kamion
<doko> proposing these on debian-python first
<mdz> private modules?
<doko> the change involves dropping dependencies on the interpreter for pure modules
<doko> modules outside the default sys.path, like mailman
<doko> those which need to be recompiled changing the default python version.
<mdz> I feel uncertain about rolling out pycentral at this point in dapper
<mdz> what are the risks?
<mdz> it would need to be well sorted by feature freeze
<doko> no risks, I can collect my changes on p.u.c., and then we can decide if we upload it, if it's stable enough for dapper
<mdz> I mean the risks of the implementation itself, not our strategy for rolling it out
<mdz> build failures? broken packages?
<mdz> do we need a new Zope when dropping python 2.3?
<doko> pycentral at that point just recompiles stuff, when you change the default python version, nothing more. I don't see how this can break packages. otoh, it doesn't have a visible value for the end user
<doko> we would need zope2.9, but there's no plone yet for 2.9
<mdz> ok, we need to move on.  please send me an email with details of your plan and links to the debian discussion
<mdz> thanks doko
<mdz> fabbione? 
<doko> so just lets keep 2.8 with the existing plone in uinverse
<doko> mdz: ok
<fabbione> * server-candy: switch to ssl-cert-snakeoil certificate is in progress.
<fabbione> * ubuntu-cluster: working on update for redhatcluster suite. A lot of our patches have gone upstream and we got some bug fixes from upstream pushed to us.
<fabbione> * boot-from-usb: implemented.
<fabbione> * last week: return from distro sprint, kernel security (warty/breezy/dapper, hoary not affected) and fixed a regression upgrading from hoary to breezy/dapper (pending upload on -security queue). Being sick one day.
<fabbione> * next week: ocfs2 updates, complete the ssl-cert-foo transition, cleanup ssl-cert package to be more user friendly (core was done before starting the transition). Fix a couple of bugs in partman-auto-lvm since it is getting decent testing around now. Get kernel server on server CD if infrastructure to build cd is in place.
<pitti> fabbione: what's the status of the new ssl-certs? my new postgresql-common is still pending 
<mdz> fabbione: boot-from-usb was already implemented last week; you can exclude it from further status updates
<fabbione> pitti: that's part of the "make it user friendly"
<fabbione> mdz: ok.
<pitti> fabbione: heh :)
<mdz> fabbione: someone I know wrote https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Installation/LVMOnRaid ; would you review it for correctness?  perhaps it could become the basis for a test plan
<fabbione> mdz: ok i will try to do it
<fabbione> i am slightly overloaded 
<mdz> fabbione: it's low priority; just keep it in mind for when you have a spare moment
<mdz> thanks fabbione
<fabbione> mdz: ok
<mdz> JaneW: infinity's update?
<fabbione> i already found a bunch of errors... *sigh*
<JaneW> one sec
<JaneW> infinity: last week: tail end of the distro sprint, lots and lots of traveling home (hey, can we have the next sprint in Australia? <bat lashes>), some initramfs-tools hacking locally, tidying up LRM to hand it over to BenC, preparing PHP security updates, learning the ropes of the new buildd infrastructure, and helping with some hiccups therein.
<JaneW> next week: not entirely sure, actually, but I have a feeling it will involve a lot of back and forth with cprov to make sure the LP buildds do exactly what we want them to do, when we want them to do so.
<JaneW> splash-down: A mostly-working implementation is running on my laptop, but doesn't quite behave as I'd like it to, so I need to hack a bit of extra intelligence into usplash itself before I polish this off and upload it.
<JaneW> pitti will give the update for reducing-duplication...
<mdz> ok
<mdz> I would like to see the splash-down implementation before it goes in
<JaneW> ok, will note that in report and convey to infinity
<mdz> thanks JaneW and infinity
<mdz> iwj?
<iwj> AutomatedTesting: Initial phase complete and published in dapper and sid.  Discussions with Debian have been encouraging regarding the per-package tests.  It's not clear when to call the goal complete, as it's more of an ongoing project, but a clear milestone has been reached.
<iwj> AutomatedTesting: Next: I need a discussion with some sysadmins and/or Launchpad people to capture their requirements for wiring autopkgtest into the build machinery.  I also need to consider generic (non package-specific) tests like those provided by piuparts.
<iwj> Firefox: New upstream (stability/security), new Debian version (incorporating many of our patches, so our diff is shrinking).
<iwj> Firefox: pygnome crash not fixed, reported upstream :-/.
<iwj> DeveloperDocumentation: Just started.  Currently I'm reviewing the existing Debian Dev. Ref. document and planning the redaction process to make the UDR.
<iwj> DefaultApplicationsFirefox: no change since last report.  I aim to revisit this this coming week to make sure that everything that can sensibly be done is finished before feature freeze.
<iwj> Bugs backlog: awful.
<iwj> Email backlog: none
<mdz> iwj: can I get that demo/transcript of autopkgtest?  or better, maybe put up a wiki page with information on how to drive it so that everyone can try it out
<iwj> There's a transcript in my {ubuntu,debian}-devel post.
<mdz> I'm behind on lists; please forward me a copy
<iwj> Done.
<mdz> JaneW: package-dependency-fix is deferred; we don't want to make intrusive changes to the packaging toolchain for dapper
<mdz> thanks iwj
<mdz> Kamion?
<JaneW> mdz: ok, noted
<Kamion> cd-bootloader: Localised help done. Implemented.
<Kamion> cd-build-process: Parallelisation by image type implemented; as predicted, it does not provide a performance win, although it may be convenient. Implemented. (If we desperately need to get install+live ISO build time down beyond the current 20 minutes, I can backport changes from Debian that eliminate the apt-ftparchive bottleneck, but that will take some work.)
<Kamion> ubuntu-express: Done the API shakeups mentioned last week; still working on the actual non-blocking debconf handling to fix the UI. Not much else this week due to illness, not having sorted out my test machine after getting back from London, and clearing other stuff out of the way.
<Kamion> misc: Have been receiving basic training on ftpmaster work in Soyuz; I can do some NEW queue processing but can't do override changes yet (including main<->universe changes and removals); please ask elmo for the latter. Disabled archive-copier by default.
<Kamion> next-week: Really kill off the Espresso UI responsiveness problems and start in on the rest of its to-do list.
<mdz> Kamion: does the parallelisation at least give us all the builds in one directory?
<Kamion> no
<Kamion> that's a quite separate job
<mdz> oh
<Kamion> and is in fact easier if it's serial
<mdz> gah
<Kamion> I can look at that if you want, it's just not what the spec asked for :-)
<mdz> yes, I'm noticing that didn't make it into the spec, though we have talked about it
<Kamion> should be a few hours' work
<mdz> since UBZ
<mdz> Kamion: do you have some notes about the soyuz tools that you could send me?
<mdz> I need to get up to speed on that as well
<Kamion> I can send you the IRC transcript, yes
<mdz> thanks
<Kamion> sorting out test machine> embarrassingly I left the power cable for it in London :-( will go out and get a spare today
<mdz> Kamion: have you handed off some espresso bits to Mithrandir?
<Mithrandir> mdz: I don't feel there just yet, I need to poke the system a bit more; hopefully for next week or in a few days.
<mdz> ok
<mdz> thanks Kamion
<Kamion> mdz: he's coming up to speed, but I haven't explicitly said "you work on this" yet; I'll explicitly hand something off today and he can work on it when it's convenient
<mdz> where is Keybuk?
<JaneW> I don;t think keybuk is in...
<mdz> no email update?
<JaneW> no, sorry
<JaneW> I'll mail him now
<mdz> thanks
<mdz> need to know especially about network-manager
<mdz> Mithrandir?
<Mithrandir> probe-for-root-filesystem: implemented
<Mithrandir> live-cd-performance: no further progress, need to do lzma testing.  Waiting for Scott to produce readahead infrastructure
<Mithrandir> simplified-livecd: some further work done in London, It's currently missing stackable file systems (which should make building the CDs a bit quicker) and suspend to disk (pending a patch from me to be tested).  I'm wondering if it should encrypt all the swap too, to not possibly leave private data behind.  Keymapper still not there.  We need customisation docs, I get daily mails on how to customise the cd.
<Mithrandir> faster-networked-x-through-nx: no progress, some sabdfl interest.  We might want to get this spec beefed up and ship nomachine nx stuff in universe
<Mithrandir> misc: cleaning up some amd64 stuff, such as getting ddcprobe working, reading up on espresso to be able to help Colin, some bug gardening
<Mithrandir> blocked on: have been blocked on bits of LP not working as expected (debootstrap broke) and the live cd build failing (which has now been fixed).  Still no access to popcon.u.c
<Mithrandir> next week: get rest of specs cleaned up, get going on espresso
<JaneW> mdz: you meen network-magic?
<mdz> JaneW: network-manager is the piece of network-magic which matters
<JaneW> mdz: right, ok
<mdz> Mithrandir: please ensure that the next Flight includes test instructions for probe-for-root-filesystem; should be an exciting feature for the community
<Mithrandir> mdz: will do.
<Mithrandir> mdz: it's only enabled on installations to removable devices, though, but I guess they're not that uncommon
<Kamion> Mithrandir: at least basic handling of the keymap passed by gfxboot would be good even if we don't get keymapper
<mdz> Mithrandir: please make espresso your highest priority now; the existing improvements in simplified-livecd and live-cd-performance are already looking very good for dapper
<mdz> Mithrandir: yes, we want users to test installation to USB devices and such
<Mithrandir> Kamion: yeah, that's my thought as well.  I think just getting the minimal support in should be a few hours work.
<mdz> it's been a requested feature for a while
<Kamion> [we need some kind of keymap handling in simplified-live-cd as a dependency of espresso] 
<Mithrandir> mdz: ok.
<mdz> thanks Mithrandir
<mdz> mjg59?
<Mithrandir> I'd love comments on the encrypted swap for live cd idea, though.  Thought about it while walking through the snow yesterday
<JaneW> mjg59 doesn;t appear to be around either - will mail him too
<ogra> mdz, power management is implemented so far ... aprat from normal bugfixing and a lid mode to lock the screen it should be fine
<mdz> ogra: is someone working on the screen locking bit?
<pitti> ogra: we still need to clean up the ppc side
<ogra> mdz, me and mjg59 as fallback if i dont make it ...
<ogra> pitti, i thought you did that already
<JaneW> the spec is still in drafting and mjg59 siad 'hal may need some loving now'
<pitti> ogra: partly
<pitti> ogra: I made pmi not require pbbuttonsd any more
<ogra> mdz, we have a sabdfl bug open about it ... so i consider it somewhat prioritzed
<JaneW> who is going to complete the spec and/or get it approved?
<pitti> but we still install pbbuttonsd by default
<mdz> ogra: about what? powerpc or screen locking?
<ogra> pitti, that should be handled by mvo's tool
<mdz> the screen locking issue is a regression from breezy, so it needs to be fixed regardless
<ogra> mdz, lid -> screenlock
<ogra> #29881
<pitti> ogra: no, I mean, it still does some important things, like CD ejection and tap keybard handling
<mdz> mvo: next?
<mvo> ogra: can you give me details what is required after the meeting please
<mvo> Did:
<mvo> * third-party-packages:
<mvo>   - gnome-app-install gui improvements (new-look branch)
<mvo>   - menu-data file updates
<mvo>   - non-root mode 
<mvo>   - uploaded
<pitti> erm, s/keyboard/mousepad/
<mvo> * release-upgrades:
<mvo>   - various bugfixes, more flexible rules
<mvo>   - non-interactive Dist-Upgrader ready 
<mvo> * misc:
<mvo>   - new update-manager that fixes a anoying focus,  problem, fix a apt regression with install and --print-uris, usual bugtriage etc
<mvo> Will do:
<mvo> - revert update-notifier back to use libgamin instead of gnome-vfs to fix 100% cpu consumation bug
<mdz> mvo: what remains before third-party-packages is implemented?
<mvo> - talk to infinity about a chroot for the automatic dist-upgrade testing 
<mvo> mdz: we hardly have any 3rd party channels yet, so it gets little testing
<mdz> are upgrades from breezy working again so that further release-upgrades testing is possible?
<pitti> mvo: we need to talk about translations in the desktop files shipped in g-a-i
<mvo> but otherwise I think we are more or less done
<mdz> mvo: we have a test channel, though, right?
<Riddell> mvo: we need to split the .desktop files and icons from g-a-i for the new adept simplified installer
<mvo> mdz: yes, a skype test-channel and jbaileys
<mvo> mdz: dist-upgrades should work again, there was a linux-restricted-modules upload yesterday (nvidida was borken)
<mvo> pitti: ok
<mvo> Riddell: ok, will it use the same bits?
<Riddell> mvo: yes, it does
<mvo> Riddell: nice, I'll do that then next week
<Riddell> thanks, let me know when you have and I'll check it works with adept
<mdz> mvo: are test reports still coming in for release-upgrades?
<mvo> mdz: yes, but less now
<pitti> still any major failures?
<mvo> I'll update the backport to the latest code and ask for another testing run
<mdz> ok
<mvo> I don't think anything major, a lot was fixed over the last week
<mdz> thanks mvo
<JaneW> hi Lathiat, just in time for an update...
<mdz> ogra?
<ogra> * thin-client-memory-usage: kernel image handling implemented (dropping of l-r-m from thin clients), only missing bit is nbd swap
<ogra> * thin-client-faster-startup: wrapped all preseed values to not call debconf-communicate if not necessary, only missing bit is initscript handling
<ogra> * gnome-screensaver-default-image: no work done
<ogra> * general: tons of ltsp merges, bugfixes and small enhancements, powerpc can bootstrap thin clients now (still some yaboot bits missing to make it fully work), xscreensaver fixes, serial mouse autodetection: no valuable feedback yet, usplash-on-thin-clients spec (infinity): implemented
<ogra> * next week:  finish ltsp nbd implementation, finish init script handling in ltsp, finish powerpc support for ltsp, flight4 preparation, more ltsp merges (its really nice to see that debian speeds up to match feature freeze with their ltsp enhancements for us, even if there is no urge for them), implement a "lock only" mode for gnome-powermanagers lid function (sabdfl bug #29881).
<mdz> ogra: ok, please prioritize completion of the thin-client-* specs over other small features for ltsp; need to finish those off
<mdz> powerpc support is also low priority
<ogra> mdz, i was planning to have that done this week ...
<Lathiat> hi jane
<JaneW> ogra: :)
<JaneW> ogra: then you can create some gnome apps to replace the KDE ones :P
<ogra> i have ppc working locally (pitti tested it in london) its just a small amount of work
<mdz> ogra: once they're complete, ask the LTSP guys for feedback since they were driving the requirements
<Riddell> JaneW: bah
<ogra> will do
<mdz> thanks ogra
<mdz> Lathiat: do you have an update prepared?
<Lathiat> mdz: not prepared but i can hammer something out quickly
<mdz> Lathiat: I'll come back to you at the end
<mdz> pitti?
<Lathiat> ok
<pitti> this week so far:
<pitti>  * evaluated scim for main inclusion and functionality, integrated its modules into language-support for OOTB support for Asian languages
<pitti>  * changed PowerPC's pmi to not depend on pbbuttonsd any more
<pitti>  * improved sudo hint, added manpage
<pitti>  * some bug fixes
<pitti>  * caught up with lots of stuff that got deferred in the sprint week (email, bounty review, security updates, bug mail)
<pitti> status of unimplemented specs:
<pitti>  * reducing-duplication: DONE last week: Dropped MySQL 4.0 and 4.1, Gnome 1, OpenSSL 0.9.7; converted most packages to db4.3; still TODO: actual demotion of mysql 4.1, only one openldap version (hard!), gnutls11->12 (mostly easy, but openldap still needs 11), split enigmail to drop mozilla (infinity), drop python 2.3 (doko)
<pitti>  * langpacks-desktopfiles: DONE: nothing last week, BLOCK: zyga needs to send me his current patches for langpacks-desktopfiles; if that does not happen RSN, I'll just do it from scratch; PLAN: finish this by next week.
<pitti>  * firewall: DONE: almost finished negotiating the bounty with carstenh, with 95% probability this will be deferred to dapper+1; BLOCK: final approval by mdz
<pitti>  * automated-problem-reports, automatic-printer-conf: no blocks, no time, deferred to dapper+1
<pitti> other stuff next week:
<pitti>  * release the pile of pending security updates, BLOCK: working -security uploads
<pitti>  * fix breakage of Georgian langpacks in breezy-updates, BLOCK: breezy-updates uploads
<pitti>  * catch up with bug triage some more
<pitti>  * find out why tbird locale packages don't work, upload m-t-locale-all source package, drop obsolete locale source packages
<mdz> pitti: are you getting information from the SIL guys or elsewhere regarding which scim modules we should use?
<pitti> (sorry, got a bit lenghty this time)
<pitti> mdz: yes, I cooperated with freeflying
<pitti> mdz: he knows about that stuff really well
<mdz> JaneW: please get an update from infinity regarding the enigmail work which is blocking demotion of mozilla; that will be a big win for reducing-duplication
<mvo> pitti: sabdfl asked me to add input method support in language-selector, maybe we can talk about that after the meetig
<mdz> pitti: who is freeflying?
<JaneW> mdz: will do
<pitti> mvo: already done through the support packages
<mdz> pitti: sabdfl basically wants to remov ethe distinction between support and pack in the selector
<pitti> mdz: he hangs around in #u-devel quite often and is involved heavily in scim development
<mvo> pitti: do you think we should try to add the scim stuff automatically to the users session ? or is this not required
<freeflying> mdz: hi I'm from china 
<mdz> pitti: I mean what is freeflying's real name?
<Riddell> freeflying is leader of cjk-testers on launchpad and has helped me lots getting CJK support in kubuntu
<pitti> mdz: I replied to his current email, btw
<Riddell> real name Hou
<mdz> freeflying: hello and thanks
<pitti> mdz: Zhengpeng Hou
<pitti> mvo: scim itself will be installed in ubuntu-desktop, it's pretty small
<mdz> pitti: the only remaining bit of langpacks-desktopfiles is .server files, right?
<pitti> mvo: but the modules are really big, that's why I made them l-support dependencies
<pitti> mdz: right
<mdz> if that doesn't make it, it's still a success for dapper; that bit is low priority
<pitti> mdz: zyga already has some code, but not yet uploaded
<pitti> I didn't reach him recently
<mdz> if zyga makes it, good, if not, that's ok
<pitti> mdz: yes, I agree; but it should be cheap to fully complete it
<mdz> thanks pitti
<mdz> seb128?
<seb128> this week: catching up with bugs and mails from previous week, some GNOME updates, tracked some issues with the current GNOME and forwarded them upstream
<seb128> .
<seb128> next week: GNOME 2.13.91, dapper-desktop-plan
<pitti> mdz: and it involves a fair bit of package rebuilds
<mvo> pitti: I guess it must still be activated by the user somehow?
<pitti> mvo: let's talk after meeting
<mdz> seb128: have you talked with sabdfl about his UI sprint?
<seb128> what UI sprint?
<mdz> ok, that's a 'no'
<mdz> I'll send email
<seb128> thanks
<JaneW> heh
<mdz> thanks seb128
<mdz> sivang: any update?
<Lathiat> im leaving shortly so if i could go next
<mdz> Lathiat: go ahead
<JaneW> I don't think sivang is here
<Lathiat> for network-manager
<JaneW> will mail him too
<Lathiat> has it yet been decided is thats being done in dapper?
<mdz> Lathiat: no
<Lathiat> or is that still pending?
<ogra> waiting for more feedback from tests
<Lathiat> ok
<pitti> tests looked quite good last week, but it still needs some work (like ignoring /etc/network/interfaces devices and such)
<mdz> Lathiat: do you have an update on your own work to present?
<Lathiat> done:
<Lathiat> * avahi is in main, recently updated to 0.6.6
<Lathiat> not done:
<Lathiat> * waiting on status of networkmanager integration regarding zcip config
<Lathiat> * is not set to not listen on network by default, need some more discussion with
<Lathiat>  others about the exact way to do this (not installing vs not listening)
<Lathiat> * gnome dialog to activate/deactivate not done, pending interface listen changes
<Lathiat> , blocking on above
<ogra> pitti, and its going mad if you have two running interfaces at the same time ...
<mdz> the consensus before was that we should have a simple way to enable it in the desktop
<mdz> perhaps via that applet that displays available services?
<Lathiat> mdz: right, there was alos discussion of doing it per interface etc
<Lathiat> and then integrating it into network-admin
<Lathiat> as opposed to "on/off"
<mdz> I don't think it needs to be that fancy, just on/off
<Lathiat> that woudl be good, because the interface stuff needs more work on the avahi side which isnt done yet
<Lathiat> thats largely a matter of a /etc/default file
<mdz> is there an existing dialog where we can add a toggle?
<Lathiat> i'll look into doing that this week
<mdz> where it would be appropriate?
<Lathiat> mdz: hrm
<mdz> seems awkward to add a whole new preference dialog just for this
<Lathiat> i dont think so
<Lathiat> mdz: true, but im not sure where itd fit
<Lathiat> i suppose the network admin
<Lathiat> could get an extra tab
<mdz> yeah ,was just looking there
<mdz> I think that would be reasonable
<mdz> seb128, what do you thinkx?
<Lathiat> i dont have a gnome desktop handy right this second to look myself
<mdz> s/x//
<Lathiat> i'll look into it this week and discuss and report next week?
<seb128> a network-admin tab seems fine to me
<mdz> ok, sounds good
<seb128> maybe on the second tab
<mdz> thanks Lathiat
<mdz> Riddell?
<seb128> there is just the hostname atm
<Riddell> kubuntu-express: got a good chunck ported from gtk, give it another week and it might be done
<Riddell> also: getting ipod slave to work, fixing kdelibs to ignore Gnome's new autostart files, get kde network-manager working (but needs CVS network-manager so not for dapper)
<Riddell> todo: kubuntu-express, flight 4
<mdz> Lathiat: please discuss with seb128 and the desktop team and get a consensus; shouldn't take long
<Lathiat> mdz: sure
<Riddell> (where done in kubuntu-express there means matching the gtk frontend)
<Kamion> I was about to say. :)
<mdz> Riddell: cool, any screenshots of kubuntu-express?
<Riddell> mdz: yes, see my blog (on planet)
<ogra> on his blog :)
<mdz> nice
<mdz> Riddell: thanks, looking forward to more
<mdz> Kamion: quick outlook for flight 4?
* sivang is here
<mdz> (we're out of time)
<JaneW> Everyone: Please all let me know if you have status changes to your goals so I can update them. Alternately change them yourself in LP, and I'll pick it up.
<Kamion> mdz: need to sort out my test machine before I know the state of current images
<Kamion> so I guess next week
<mdz> ok
<mdz> sivang: if you have a prepared status update to paste, go ahead
<JaneW> sivang: shoot if you have an update, I'll grab it for report
<JaneW> or mail me if you prefer
<mdz> otherwise mail janew
<sivang> mdz: mainly, some more improvments for the utility classes, I'm now researching to ue threads to implement the burner class, and then move on to finish the GUI.
<pitti> is that backup?
<mdz> presumably
<sivang> pitti: yes, home-user-backup
<JaneW> I had hoped for the firewall spec last week, but it doesn;t look like it will happen for dapper without more of a concerted effort.
<mdz> sivang: think you'll have something ready to present for feature freeze?
<mdz> JaneW: it needs a lot of work
<sivang> mdz: I'm going to cut down to minimum stuff that can be dropped for a first version, and then see
<mdz> ok
<mdz> we're out of time
<mdz> thanks, everyone
<mdz> adjourned
<JaneW> mdz: yes I figured :/
<sivang> thanks mdz 
<JaneW> thanks mdz
<JaneW> report should be sent out later today
<pitti> thanks everybody
<BenC> good night all
<mdz> night BenC
<Riddell> sivang: kubuntu has JRe working on keep as a new backup tool, you might want to compare ideas
<ogra> mdz, gnome-power-manager simply needs an additional action implemented that just calls "gnome-screensaver-command --lock" and a option in the pulldown menu for this ... should be few lines of code to implement it in the existing functions ..
<sivang> Riddell: thanks, I'll give that a look now
#ubuntu-meeting 2006-02-15
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:robitaille] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 14 Feb 20:00 UTC:  Technical Board | 15 Feb 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 15 Feb 20:00 UTC: MOTU |  16 Feb 14:00 UTC: Dapper Development Status | 16 Feb 20:00 UTC: Kubuntu
<sorush20> hi guys
#ubuntu-meeting 2006-02-17
<sorush20> hi guys
#ubuntu-meeting 2006-02-18
<MarioMeyer> ajmitch, any tips on that?
#ubuntu-meeting 2006-02-19
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:robitaille] :  Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 14 Feb 20:00 UTC:  Technical Board | 15 Feb 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu |  15 Feb 19:00 UTC: Accessibility Team | 15 Feb 20:00 UTC: MOTU |  16 Feb 14:00 UTC: Dapper Development Status | 16 Feb 20:00 UTC: Kubuntu
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:jsgotangco] :  Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 14 Feb 20:00 UTC:  Technical Board | 15 Feb 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu |  15 Feb 19:00 UTC: Accessibility Team | 15 Feb 20:00 UTC: MOTU |  16 Feb 14:00 UTC: Dapper Development Status | 16 Feb 20:00 UTC: Kubuntu | 17 Feb 14:00 UTC: Documentation Team |
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:jsgotangco] :  Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 14 Feb 20:00 UTC:  Technical Board | 15 Feb 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu |  15 Feb 19:00 UTC: Accessibility Team | 15 Feb 20:00 UTC: MOTU |  16 Feb 14:00 UTC: Dapper Development Status | 16 Feb 20:00 UTC: Kubuntu | 17 Feb 14:00 UTC: Documentation Team |
<jsgotangco> clear
<jsgotangco> ls
<jsgotangco> lol
<Lord_Athur> hi all
<atie> hello
<raphink> hi atie 
<atie> raphink, hi
<LaserJock> hi raphink
<raphink> hi LaserJock <><
<raphink> how are you today LaserJock ?
<LaserJock> oh, I'm alright. I thought I would miss the TB meeting because of a real life meeting but the real life meeting didn't happen so I'm here
<raphink> I thought you were applying for dev tonight LaserJock ?
<raphink> yet I don't see you in the list LaserJock 
<mjg59> mdz: I believe Kinnison may have gone out for the evening
<mdz> mjg59: that would be a very unfortunate choice
<ogra> he wanted to celebrate valentine ...
<mdz> good morning everyone
<jpatrick> good evening
<sivang> morning mdz 
<raphink> hi mdz 
<mdz> tech board meeting starts now, agenda at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoardAgenda
<raphink> mdz: Tonio (Anthony Mercatante) might be a bit late
<ogra> evening
<raphink> yop ogra 
<mdz> I don't think we have any core developer candidates to process; the pending memberships in launchpad (apart from Kinnison, who isn't present) are invalid
<mjg59> mdz: Is it possible to process kinnison in his absence?
<mdz> mjg59: I suppose so, if we both agree
<ogra> i sponsored an upload for him today if thats worth something 
<raphink> that would be a great surprise for him :)
<ogra> and he wants to grab gnome-powermanager, its would be helpful if he could upload
<mjg59> He's been an active Debian developer, and we're now entirely dependent on infrastructure he helped implement
<mdz> we're fairly well acquainted at this point
<mjg59> I'm inclined to say that he'd be a valuable and competent member of the team
<mdz> I spent the better part of a week working with him on soyuz
<mdz> mjg59: what did you sponsor?
<mjg59> mdz: I haven't sponsored any of his uploads as yet, but I've been working with him on g-p-m
<ogra> mdz, i did ... 
<mdz> I am somewhat concerned by the fact that he seems to like lua
<ogra> mdz, g-p-m
<sivang> mdz: ?? :)
<mdz> the humour-impaired may disregard my last statement
<sivang> hehe
<mjg59> mdz: Oh, christ, yes.
<sivang> I doublechecked :)
<mjg59> But anyway, +1 from me.
<elmo> he doesn't just like it, he packages it
<ogra> mdz, he fixed a sabdfl bug :) #29881 ... so the lid -> lock screen stuff is done as well ;)
<mjg59> (Unless anyone has any objections)
<mdz> mjg59: has he maintained non-lua packages in the past?
* sivang cheers for Kinnison in his absence.
<elmo> I object on the basis that perpuating lua is a crime against humanity
<sivang> and what about Arannah?
<sivang> elmo: LOL
<mdz> I don't nkow who Arannah is
<mdz> know
<sivang> not who, 
<sivang> what
<sivang> ah ops
<sivang> disregard that. 
<dholbach> i think he was in the uploaders list of dbus
<mjg59> Yes, he used to work on dbus (with Daniels)
<mdz> oh how confusing
<mjg59> Having lost a Daniel, I feel we need to compensate by adding another
<mdz> anyway, there is precedent for both considering someone in absence if we have sufficient first-hand experience with them, and for 50% quorum
<mdz> so I think we can vote
<ogra> yay
<mdz> s/I think //
<sivang> yay 
<mjg59> +1 from me
<mdz> +1 with intentions to have a serious talk with him about this lua business
<mjg59> And the beard
<ogra> haha
<sivang> mdz: given you just said that, note http://www.digital-scurf.org/software/aranha
<mdz> mjg59: will you communicate the decision to him?
<mjg59> mdz: Yup
<mdz> thanks
<mdz> I've twiddled the launchpad bits
<mdz> so in theory he should have upload privileges effective immediately
<ogra> note that he's on ubuntu-dev as well ...
<mjg59> Ok. Next set of people?
<mdz> yes, that is obsolete
<mdz> the motu applicant list is sort of a mess
<ogra> yup
<dholbach> mdz: Sorry, I'll mail the guys and report back ASAP.
<mdz> dholbach: thanks
<dholbach> (note the capital letters)
<mdz> dholbach: would you be sure to do that before each meeting?
<mdz> I can process any improper applications which should be declined for you
<dholbach> Yes.
<mdz> quickly, is there anyone here in regard to a MOTU application?
<Tonio_> hi everyone
<LaserJock> mdz: I'm Jordan Mantha
<dholbach> hi Tonio_
<mdz> ok, that's two
* jpatrick is Jonathan Patrick Davies
<mdz> 3
<raphink> hi Tonio_ 
<raphink> :)
* Tonio_ is Anthony Mercatante
<mdz> Ivailo Ivanov?
<mdz> freeflying?
<mdz> ok
<jpatrick> not here
<mdz> Tonio_ is first up, then
<mdz> Tonio_: so it looks like you're interested in KDE?
<Tonio_> mdz: absolutly ;)
<mdz> who has been sponsoring your uploads?  Riddell?
<Tonio_> mostly Riddell, but since he is MOTU, raphink uploaded many too
<raphink> quite a bit recently yes
<mdz> is Riddell here?
<jpatrick> was a minute ago
<Riddell> I am
<mdz> Riddell: any comments?
<raphink> mdz: Tonio_ has been a very active Kubuntu developer for a long time
<Riddell> was politely waiting for Tonio_'s 3 line introduction..
<dholbach> me too
<Riddell> but I fully support Tonio_'s membership of ubuntu-dev
<raphink> mdz: I have to confess he was the one introducing me to Ubuntu packages :)
<mdz> I am satisfied with his wiki page intro
<Tonio_> I'm really sorry, but I didn't have the time to prepare a little text instroducing me...
<mjg59> Tonio_: No problem
<Riddell> he's a good packager and fixed some bugs too like the bluez pin issue we found recently
<mdz> Riddell: can you provide any specific feedback on his packaging work, especially that done under your sponsorship?
<mdz> Riddell: you reviewed his uploads carefully?
<raphink> Tonio_ has been working on kubuntu default settings lately
<Riddell> mdz: yes, I've sponsored a number of his uploads, there's usually minimal problems with them
<mdz> Riddell: can you give us an example of a problem and how it was resolved?
<dholbach> I reviewed a huge bunch of Tonio_ and he's been there for months, improving them on my requests and adding even more packages. He follows up quickly and I'm happy with this packaging skills.
<raphink> dholbach: + :)
<ogra> additionally he seems to be a good guy to help newcomers in #ubuntu-motu
<ogra> i saw him often help out on questions ...
<Riddell> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1145  random example, mateedit, needed to tidy upstream tar file and I'm usually quite strict in asking for patch names to be in changelogs
<mdz> Riddell: so you suggested those corrections and he made them?
<raphink> mdz: Tonio_ considers all corrections to packages on REVU
<Riddell> mdz: yes
<raphink> mdz: and is eager to defend his technical choices when a MOTU is wrong on a comment, too
<mdz> Tonio_: you mention the laptop team on your web page; have you worked with mjg59 on any projects there?
<mjg59> Not as yet
<mdz> oh, I see, that's a future interest
<mjg59> Though it would be good - KDE's lacking some love compared to Gnome
<Tonio_> mdz: I must say not at the moment, cause I never found any problems with my laptop right now, but it is something I would like to find the to do
<mdz> Tonio_: can you tell us about your plans for laptop team participation?
<ogra> someone needs to rewrite g-p-m for kde :)
<ogra> (probably a bit late for dapper )
<sivang> ogra: wait until it's better in dapper for gnome :)
<Riddell> ogra: (I'm in contact with the kpowersave developers about improvements I'd like to have matched funcationality)
<ogra> sivang, it already is
<ogra> Riddell, ++
<Tonio_> mdz: my plans are limited I must say
<mdz> Tonio_: what do you think could be done to improve laptop/power management integration in KDE?
<ogra> sivang, now that Kinnison cares actively for it :)
<sivang> ogra: rock :)
<Tonio_> I don't have many laptops, just one, so unsuring that the compatibility with that specific model is okay, and certainly adding an entry on the wiki
<Tonio_> but that is quite limited, indeed
<mjg59> Tonio_: Would you be interested in working on more general support, even if you can't test it all?
<raphink> I think Tonio_ 's main interest in really Kubuntu right now 
<raphink> s/in/is/
<mdz> raphink: he can speak to his own interests, surely
<Tonio_> mjg59: that could be interesting, although there are software dedicated to laptops that could/should be integrated
<raphink> sure mdz :)
<ogra> raphink, kubuntu needs powermanagement help and i guess Riddell would be happy if someone can help out
<Tonio_> I discussed on powersave with riddell recently about that
<mjg59> Tonio_: Ok, cool
<mjg59> Tonio_: Unrelatedly, have any of the tools you've packaged been uploaded to Debian since you first packaged them?
<Tonio_> but has raphink was saying, my main priority is more kubuntu than anything else, and if specific things can be done for kubuntu on the laptop part, I would take pleasure wokirng on it
<Tonio_> mjd59, I didn't personally performed the debian submission, but I know certain packages have been included to debian by the utnubu team
<mjg59> Tonio_: Once that happens, do you continue packaging new upstream releases or do you start syncing from Debian?
<Tonio_> generally, when a package gets into debian, and that I am not the maintainer, I don't continue the packaging stuff
<Tonio_> ubutu's main purpose is to be synched to debian, I think
<Tonio_> but if the debian package is the one I did for ubuntu, I continue maintaining it, of course
<Tonio_> packaging an application isn't a "one time" stuff
<mjg59> Tonio_: Ok, cool
<mdz> Tonio_: Ubuntu's _main_ purpose is to be a high-quality free operating system, though coordinating with our upstreams is also important ;-)
<mdz> mjg59: I'm finished, you?
<Tonio_> mdz: sure ;)
<mjg59> mdz: I think so
<mdz> ok, votes
<mdz> +1, based on positive feedback from existing motu and core developers and a substantial history of packaging contributions
<sivang> phew, /me thought MOTU applications just got alot harder :)
<mjg59> +1 for me
<raphink> sivang: indeed ;)
<mdz> Tonio_: congratulations and welcome
<sivang> raphink: this is for main right?
<ogra> sivang, we're still waiting for you :)
<raphink> welcome aboard Tonio_ :)
<raphink> sivang: not even ;)
<ogra> welcome Tonio_ !
<Tonio_> thanks very much !
<ogra> next ? 
<dholbach> congratulations Tonio_!
<allee> Tonio_: congrats
<Tonio_> I hope not to deceive you
<mdz> jpatrick: you're next; would you like to introduce yourself?
<Tonio_> allee: thanks :)
<jpatrick> Yes, thank you I wrote sometime up
<mdz> your wiki page is informative, but feel free to summarize here
<jpatrick> I started MOTU and packaging things when people started asking for packages at the Kubuntu Forums about five months ago, that's when I decided to give it a try. My work can be found at my wikipage ( https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PatrickDavies ). While doing my first packages, I discovered REVU and started helping out, I've placed some notes on the KubuntuPackagingGuide at the wiki. I only did a few merges (kmymoney2 and kxdock
<jpatrick> lp people on #ubuntu-motu by reviewing their packages on IRC (with no power to upload or advocate on REVU (kblogger for example)). I plan to help out with MOTU KDE/Kubuntu (most of my packages begin with the letter K).
<mdz> jpatrick: it looks like your message was truncated
<mdz> I received:
<mdz> I only did a few merges (kmymoney2 and kxdoc
<mdz> <jpatrick> lp people on #ubuntu-motu
<ogra> yeah, the mid part ...
<mdz> (nothing between)
<jpatrick> sorry, one second
<jpatrick> I started MOTU and packaging things when people started asking for packages at the Kubuntu Forums about five months ago, that's when I decided to give it a try. My work can be found at my wikipage ( https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PatrickDavies ).
<jpatrick> While doing my first packages, I discovered REVU and started helping out, I've placed some notes on the KubuntuPackagingGuide at the wiki. I only did a few merges (kmymoney2 and kxdocker, I think). I helped fix a YaKuake bug sometime ago.
<jpatrick>  I help people on #ubuntu-motu by reviewing their packages on IRC (with no power to upload or advocate on REVU (kblogger for example)). I plan to help out with MOTU KDE/Kubuntu (most of my packages begin with the letter K).
<dholbach> jpatrick: are you an Ubuntu member already?
<jpatrick> dholbach: yes
<mdz> jpatrick: who has been sponsoring your work so far?
<dholbach> Ok.
<jpatrick> mdz: Riddell's done all my uploads
<mjg59> Riddell: How do you feel about the quality of the packages?
<Riddell> mjg59: his packages often need some work, but he's very responsive to fixing any problems
<mdz> Riddell,jpatrick: I wasn't aware of KubuntuPackagingGuide until now; how did it originate?
<raphink> jpatrick is quite active in Ubuntu, and learns fast
<jpatrick> mdz: was created some time ago to help get people packaging
<mdz> jpatrick: by whom?
<raphink> mdz: I think JRE created it
<allee> JRe
<jpatrick> mdz: Riddell, JRe
<Riddell> it was JRe I think
<raphink> :)
<ogra> is JRe still active ? havent seen him for a while
<raphink> and JRe is not even here ;)
<mjg59> Well, consistency is good :)
<jpatrick> ogra: he's mostly doing KDE work
<raphink> ogra: yes he's active
<ogra> ah
<Riddell> ogra: he's very active, e.g. just wrote Keep as a new backup tool for Kubuntu
<raphink> ogra: JRe is busy on keep and katapult lately ;)
<mdz> jpatrick: which of the packages on your page did you create based on upstream software, and which are packages you contributed changes to?
<ogra> oh, cool
<jpatrick> mdz: only packages I've done from scracth is ksplash-engine-moodin
<jpatrick> and kcontrol-kdetheme
<raphink> jpatrick: where did others come from?
<jpatrick> raphink: they were built up from Debian/Ubuntu files with new upstream releases
<mdz> is there anyone else present who has first-hand experience working with jpatrick who would like to speak?
<raphink> well if I might add something to that
<jpatrick> allee has been helping me with kmplayer
<raphink> I'd say I've seen the quality of his packages improve on REVU
<raphink> although sometimes more checks would be nicer
<raphink> but overall it ends up in pretty good stuff :)
<mdz> is there any way to get a history of all REVU activity for a particular user?
<mdz> that would be useful
<raphink> indeed
<raphink> mdz: grepping the motu-reviewers mailing list might help
<ogra> mdz, afaik thats planned for revu2  ... it was in the spec at ubz iirc
<mdz> I see
<mdz> jpatrick: what do you like most about working with the MOTU team?
<atie> I'd hope to see what mdz saying from launchpad
<dholbach> http://tauware.de/pipermail/motu-reviewers (unfortunately it doesn't have people in the message subjects)
<mdz> dholbach: any particular reason why that list isn't on lists.ubuntu.com?
<dholbach> mdz: siretart and sistpoty set it up as a quick solution (until revu2 was there)
<jpatrick> mdz: to be honest I'm not too sure
<mdz> jpatrick: well, why do you do it? ;-)
<jpatrick> mdz: I like the feeling of helping out and developing
<mdz> jpatrick: based on your experience, do you have any ideas about how the team could work more effectively?
<jpatrick> mdz: more revu-ing on KDE packages
<mjg59> Heh
<mjg59> jpatrick: Do you feel that KDE packages are held to the same standards as Gnome ones right now?
<mdz> jpatrick: meaning what?  there aren't enough reviewers to keep up with packages needing review?
<jpatrick> mdz: only Riddell and raphink really do KDE revu
<jpatrick> mjg59: yes
<mdz> I think the best solution to that is to recruit more KDE contributors, who will gain experience and participate in review
<mdz> fortunately there seems to be strong interest in this area recently ;-)
<jpatrick> :)
<atie> mdz, yes users love kubuntu too.
<allee> jpatrick: if non motu could comment on revu, it would be better ;)
<raphink> allee: you can send your comments to MOTUs, they will sponsor them
<ogra> allee, that could quickly get messy ...
<ogra> the way raphink describes leaves at least some control
<mdz> I don't see any reason why non-motu shouldn't be able to comment, so long as it was clear from the comment whether the person is a registered developer or not
<allee> ogra: sending e-mails or irc is not better (btw. siretart said it on revu2 list)
<Tonio_> raphink, although it is an exception, was commenting on REVU before beeing MOTU
<ogra> allee, afaik revu2 is planned to be included into launchpad ... there we have account management etc ...
<mdz> ok, we're getting a bit sidetracked into REVU discussion
<ogra> yup...
<ogra> and we already met the 1h mark
<mdz> jpatrick: can you tell us a bit about kubuntu-es.org and your goals there?
<jpatrick> mdz: first thing is get the site back and try to encourage the kubuntu spanish community to do some contributions :)
<mjg59> jpatrick: Is there a strong Spanish KDE community?
<jpatrick> mjg59: yes
<mdz> jpatrick: how can we encourage more developer interest in that community?
<jpatrick> might be going to aKademy-es
<jpatrick> I could translate the MOTU guides for packagers, etc
<mjg59> jpatrick: What distributions are currently popular in Spain?
<mjg59> (Especially KDE based ones)
<jpatrick> I know some OpenSuse users and there's a crowd that's always in #kubuntu-es
<mjg59> jpatrick: So, how do you think we can get hold of all the OpenSuse users? :)
<jpatrick> mjg59: the one i know used Kubuntu
<mjg59> jpatrick: Heh
<mdz> jpatrick: does opensuse offer particular advantages to the Spanish community?
<jpatrick> not that I know of :)
<mjg59> jpatrick: What sort of community contributions do you envisage?
<jpatrick> envisage?
<mjg59> Imagine in the future
<jpatrick> Translations, more packages and maybe more support at the forums
<mjg59> Ok
<jpatrick> and some coding for Kubuntu express maybe
* Riddell notes that the University of La Laguna are making a kubuntu derivative distribution
<Riddell> and want to help with kubuntu express
<mjg59> Riddell: Good news
<mjg59> jpatrick: So do you feel happy with your packages being used by (potentially) millions of people?
<jpatrick> mjg59: I feel happy that they're happy :)
<mdz> we need to move on, any further questions?
<mjg59> I think I'm ok.
<jpatrick> without having to compile the programs (which sometimes problems.)
<mdz> ok, votes
<mdz> +1 based on positive feedback on contributions to packages and developer resources
<mjg59> +1 for me, though with faint concern over package quality in the past
<mjg59> But it sounds like you're dealing with that, so no problem
<mdz> jpatrick: it wouldn't hurt to continue to participate in package reviews
<jpatrick> yes, I plan to help the kde packages :)
<mdz> extra eyes are always a good idea even for experienced developers
<mdz> jpatrick: anyway, congratulations
<jpatrick> thanks
<Riddell> I hope he'll revu lots more in future, Tonio_  too :)
<Tonio_> jpatrick: congrats ;)
<ogra> congrats jpatrick 
<allee> congrats jpatrick 
<Tonio_> Riddell: that's on my plans ;)
<sivang> congrets jpatrick 
<dholbach> congratulations jpatrick
<raphink> congratulations jpatrick :)
<dholbach> !!!REVU DAY TOMORROW!!!
<raphink> welcome aboard :)
<jpatrick> thanks everyone :)
<dholbach> :-)
<raphink> dholbach: yeah :)
<Tonio_> dholbach: I'll be there ;)
<jpatrick> count me in!
<dholbach> ROCK! :)
<Kyral> hmm REVU Day tomorrow..I should get a package uploaded soon then...
<mdz> LaserJock: you're up
<LaserJock> mdz: thanks
<LaserJock> I'm a PhD physical chemistry student that has been hanging out with the MOTU since about August. I am very interested in both good documentation for MOTUs and wannabes and also looking after science related packages in Universe.
<LaserJock> I am a member of the documentation team and am the lead writer of the Ubuntu Packaging Guide (very alpha at this point, but should be ready for Dapper).
<LaserJock> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuPackagingGuide
<LaserJock> http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/index.html
<LaserJock> I also started the MOTU Science team to try focus some effort on science related packages in Universe. I broadly define science related as packages in the math, science, and tex sections. About 450 source packages in all.
<LaserJock> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Teams/Science
<LaserJock> sorry if that is a little too much
<LaserJock> also, dholbach did an interview of me for the MOTU report at https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2006-February/015279.html
<mjg59> LaserJock: So what have you been packaging so far?
<LaserJock> mjg59: I package plotdrop (http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1344) from scratch and it is now in Debian and I also took over a Debian ITP for gausssum and it is now in unstable
<LaserJock> I did ~ 10 merges for dapper and a few for Breezy
<mjg59> LaserJock: Excellent
<mjg59> Who's sponsored your uploads?
<LaserJock> I'm starting a run through the science related packages
<LaserJock> crismun, \sh, and bddebian (for breezy) are my main sponsors but they don't seem to be available
<LaserJock> azeem is my debian sponsor
<LaserJock> I haven't had any complaints so far about my packaging. All of my merges were accepted without changes
<ogra_ibook> grmbl
<Riddell> LaserJock: have you looked at the KubuntuPackagingGuide page mentioned earlier?  can it be merged into the Ubuntu Packaging Guide?
<LaserJock> Riddell: yes, I have a section outlined for it
<mjg59> LaserJock: Scientific programs are often licensed under bizarre non-free licenses. How's your legalese?
<mdz> LaserJock: it helps us a lot to hear from people who have reviewed your packages first-hand
* ogra is eager to grab some of the packages from LaserJock for dapper+1 edubuntu ;)
<mdz> since we don't have time to do such a comprehensive review during the meeting
<azeem> the package I sponsored was well done, albeit not extremely difficult either.  
<LaserJock> mdz: I understand
<mdz> LaserJock: do you think you could arrange for them to attend the next meeting, or perhaps send us some email with their thoughts?
<azeem> I am very impressed by LJ's pursuit for MOTUScience and working together with Debian
<sistpoty> LaserJock has been around for a long time, and often hangs around in -motu... his packaging skills (to what I've seen) are good
<raphink> :)
<LaserJock> mjg59: my leagalese isn't great but I've had to deal with some over in the doc team. Science packages are tought that way. debian-science is working on form emails for asking upstream for better licenses
<jjesse> and he is doing a great job on the packagin guide along with contrib to other doc team stuff
<raphink> LaserJock is often around, he's helpful and makes good packages :)
* sivang notes he was pleases to see the packaging guide taking form, something he wisehd for since no-name-yet.com days.
<mjg59> LaserJock: That sounds extremely worthwhile
<sivang> s/pleases/pleased/
<LaserJock> I'm working on good relations with debian-science
<LaserJock> I somewhat naively sent an email about MOTU Science. 
<LaserJock> I got a lot of good feedback with some not-so-welcom feedback as well
<mdz> sistpoty,raphink: have either of you sponsored his uploads?
<LaserJock> but I was able to show the DDs what I was up to and satisfied most
<raphink> mdz: no, I've reviewed some of his packages iirc, but never sponsored any
<dholbach> I can't remember, if I looked at any.
<sistpoty> mdz: no, I didn't sponsor any packages either, at least not that I could remember
<LaserJock> I really wish crimsun could have made it
<mdz> LaserJock: would you mind deferring to the next meeting?  we've run a bit long, and it would be beneficial for your sponsors to attend
<LaserJock> mdz: I don't mind
<mdz> LaserJock: I appreciate it
<mdz> is freeflying here?
<mdz> he proposed a discussion item
<mdz> but I don't think he's here
<atie> mdz, he isn't here
<atie> mdz, but I can speak up for the item.
<jpatrick> mdz: he is sleeping
<atie> and ok with next meeting too
<mdz> atie: if we could defer, so that freeflying can participate and we have more time, that would be good
<mdz> atie: if it's urgent, feel free to send me mail and we can discuss that way as well
<atie> mdz, no problem
<mdz> atie: thanks, will you communicate that to freeflying as well?
<atie> mdz, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BetterCJKSupportSpecification/FontConfig
<mjg59> atie: It would probably be helpful if it could be written up in a little more detail - I didn't get a good idea what the issue was from the thread
<atie> mjg59, I agree.
<atie> but can we make a channel with someone in core dev?
<atie> to discuss detail before meeting
<Riddell> freeflying said huahua would speak for it, I've just pinged him
<mdz> atie: sure
<mdz> atie: feel free to ping me anytime before the next meeting
<atie> mdz, could you let me know whom?
<atie> mdz, sure
<mdz> atie: ok, thanks
<mdz> I think we need to adjourn
<mdz> please mail me about anything which can't wait until the next meeting
<mdz> thanks, everyone
<sistpoty> just a quick question (in case anyone knows right here): is it possible to have all packages in universe test-rebuilt like we had it for breezy?
<atie> bye everyone. Congrate you Tonio_  and jpatrick !
<jpatrick> atie: bye and thanks :)
<Tonio_> too late....
<jpatrick> Tonio_: another temps
<Tonio_> jpatrick: ;)
<Tonio_> thanks everyone, bye
<jpatrick> Good night everyone and thanks
#ubuntu-meeting 2007-02-12
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 12 Feb 20:00 UTC: Screencast Team | 13 Feb 12:00 UTC: Community Council | 13 Feb 16:00 UTC: Forum Council | 13 Feb 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 14 Feb 10:00 UTC: MOTU | 14 Feb 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu
<mruiz> schedule Sydney
<mruiz> @schedule Sydney
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Australia/Sydney: 13 Feb 07:00: Screencast Team | 13 Feb 23:00: Community Council | 14 Feb 03:00: Forum Council | 14 Feb 07:00: Technical Board | 14 Feb 21:00: MOTU | 15 Feb 07:00: Edubuntu
<sid> @schedule New_York
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/New_York: 12 Feb 15:00: Screencast Team | 13 Feb 07:00: Community Council | 13 Feb 11:00: Forum Council | 13 Feb 15:00: Technical Board | 14 Feb 05:00: MOTU | 14 Feb 15:00: Edubuntu
<mruiz> @schedule Sydney
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Australia/Sydney: 13 Feb 07:00: Screencast Team | 13 Feb 23:00: Community Council | 14 Feb 03:00: Forum Council | 14 Feb 07:00: Technical Board | 14 Feb 21:00: MOTU | 15 Feb 07:00: Edubuntu
<emonkey> @schedule zurich
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Zurich: 12 Feb 21:00: Screencast Team | 13 Feb 13:00: Community Council | 13 Feb 17:00: Forum Council | 13 Feb 21:00: Technical Board | 14 Feb 11:00: MOTU | 14 Feb 21:00: Edubuntu
<Hobbsee> mruiz: another sydney person!
<mruiz> Hobbsee, yes
<Hobbsee> :)
<elkbuntu> Hobbsee, did you not meet miguel at LCA?
<Hobbsee> elkbuntu: dont think so
<xdatap> fabbione: hi, i'm a guy from loco-it, may i ask you a thing in pvt?
<benanzo> is the screencasters meeting supposed to start in a hour?
<ogra> @schedule
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: 12 Feb 20:00: Screencast Team | 13 Feb 12:00: Community Council | 13 Feb 16:00: Forum Council | 13 Feb 20:00: Technical Board | 14 Feb 10:00: MOTU | 14 Feb 20:00: Edubuntu
<ogra> benanzo, looks like
<benanzo> ok.  I wasn't sure if I did the math right to get the time in my time zone
<ogra> where are you ?
<benanzo> west coast US.  Pacific Time
<ogra> @schedule los angeles
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Los_Angeles: 12 Feb 12:00: Screencast Team | 13 Feb 04:00: Community Council | 13 Feb 08:00: Forum Council | 13 Feb 12:00: Technical Board | 14 Feb 02:00: MOTU | 14 Feb 12:00: Edubuntu
<ogra> ;)
<benanzo> thanks
<benanzo> i'll be back in awhile
* popey counts down 10 mins
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: Screencast Team | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 13 Feb 12:00 UTC: Community Council | 13 Feb 16:00 UTC: Forum Council | 13 Feb 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 14 Feb 10:00 UTC: MOTU | 14 Feb 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu
<tonytiger> Evening.
<benanzo> morning
<tonytiger> :)
<emonkey> @schedule zurich
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Zurich: Current meeting: Screencast Team | 13 Feb 13:00: Community Council | 13 Feb 17:00: Forum Council | 13 Feb 21:00: Technical Board | 14 Feb 11:00: MOTU | 14 Feb 21:00: Edubuntu
* popey says https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ScreencastTeam/Meeting in readyness.
<popey> Right then, here we go!
<popey> Anyone about?
<benanzo> here
<Coli1> yes, i am here. (Kent, UK)
<davmor2> here sir
<Owdgit> lurking
<popey> Groovy. Okay, welcome to the first Meet of the Ubuntu Screencast Team
<popey> The agenda is up, if anyone would like to add to it, feel free to edit under "Any other business" and we will get to it at the end.
<popey> Any questions, feel free to bring them up at any time.
<popey> ok, to the first item:- * Current status
<popey>   * What's happened, happening, planned
<popey> What happened: I made some screencasts for the Ubuntu-UK LoCo team, Matt East suggested we move it to the Documentation team so that it is not so UK-centric. Started out on my personal webspace - quickones.org, now moved to doc.ubuntu.com/screencasts
<popey> Clearly other people have been making screencasts before me, I am by no means the first here
<popey> youtoob and google are littered with them
<popey> However I wanted to set a standard and have a format that we could use for numerous screencasts over an array of topics
<popey> which leads to:-
<popey> Happening: I have been working on fine tuning the method we use to create screencasts. The method is not perfect, but yields good results. Working also on getting the specifications written up for new screencasts, getting others to write some too. Also great input for new slides for the start/end of screencasts.
<popey> I punched out a load of screencasts back in december, but since we became the "screencast team" this has dried up, partly so that we can get a process right so that others can contribute
<popey> (more on that in a bit)
<popey> Planned: Have asked for screencasts.ubuntu.com - no word yet on when/whether we can have it as a more permanent home. Of course we also need to churn out a load more high quality screencasts. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ScreencastTeam/Roadmap is of course worth mentioning.
<popey> the key thing at the moment from my point of view is 1) get the process nailed down, 2) get lots of specs written, 3) churn out lots of screencasts
<popey> now when I say "churn" it's of course important we keep the quality high when making these
<popey> I dont want us to turn into youtoob with hundreds of beryl screencasts and none on the real basics..
<popey> So that's "current status"..
<popey> any comments..
<benanzo> what's the process like for getting the domain screencasts.ubuntu.com?
<tonytiger> Only to say good work so far.
<popey> ta tonytiger
<popey> benanzo: actually I don't know, mdke is dealing with that
<popey> we will likely just get it as an alias and point it to the current site
<benanzo> do they want to see some content first?
<popey> we have some content:- http://doc.ubuntu.com/screencasts/
<popey> we could always do with more of course :)
<tonytiger> :)
<benanzo> right.
<popey> but like I say, I'd like us to have that process nailed so people can actually say "yeah, I can do that"
<popey> at the moment I am getting comments like "process to complex" "cant be bothered with qemu" etc
<popey> or "xvidcap too slow"
<popey> but more on the tools/process in a bit :)
<tonytiger> Is all the necessary stuff packaged in Feisty?
<tonytiger> Oh yeah.
* tonytiger shuts up
<Coli1> i have a 'xvidcap too slow' problem
<popey> will look at that in a sec Coli1, thanks.
<benanzo> I have the bug in X wont let my macbook playback hi-res vids
<popey> yeah, that seems common :(
<popey> intel chipsets seem to get that a lot
<popey> I am guessing the macbook isnt intel graphics?
<benanzo> it is intel
<popey> ah, ok, well thats good in a way
<popey> its a known problem as opposed to an unknown problem
<popey> </donald_rumsfeld>
<benanzo> I sorted it by just playing back on a dif machine..we discussed it on the mailing list
<willvdl> still a problem :)
<popey> of course, and still a valid concern
* Coli1 was thinking about donald too. :-)
<popey> :)
<popey> ok, so back to the first item
<popey> my basic question is, do you think the roadmap looks sane?
<Coli1> yes. i do.
<popey> if you have anything you think should be on the roadmap, shout
<tonytiger> Yes.
<tonytiger> Is the roadmap chronological?
<popey> roughly
<benanzo> looks good.
<tonytiger> Would be nice for the dubs to be sooner, IMHO
<popey> some parts may be paralleli(s|z)ed
<popey> well the dubbing cant happen until they're made can it?
<popey> oh, before the magazines.. I see
<popey> and dvd
<tonytiger> yeah
<popey> yeah, you're right, I see
* tonytiger nods
<tonytiger> \o/
<davmor2> If you are doing translation work would it be possible to just do the video section and not the audio
<popey> ok, changed that
<popey> well, tha audio gives the translator a clue what you were on about when you made it
<davmor2> true
<popey> I am only guessing, but I suspect that might be useful for a translator?
<tonytiger> I'd have thought so.;
<popey> I only speak English so am unaware of those issues
<willvdl> what about the front/back slides? would need translating too?
<benanzo> perhaps a spot for video with no audio and just some text transcripts for another to translate
<popey> yes, willvdl
<popey> so I suspect it would make sense for us to make the videos availabale with no slides front/back
<tonytiger> Makes sense.
<popey> so they can be localised and added in later along with the audio, good point
<tonytiger> Just the video and then versions in each language.
<willvdl> or at least a logical "black space" divide so taht an editor can cut easily
<popey> I tend to keep copies of the "masters" without the audio and front/back on anyway, so thats not a problem
<tonytiger> Would be reasonable to expect the creator of the video to produce one in their own language though, to make it clear what they were thinking when they created it.
<davmor2> I think it adds to the to the professional image if there are fewer voices
<popey> there would be only one voice
<popey> when I say dub, I mean replace
<tonytiger> Perhaps we need to employ Tom Baker to voice them? ;)
<popey> should I make that more clear?
<tonytiger> Perhaps "redub in other languages"
<popey> so when listening to the french version you would hear only french, not a mix of english and french
<Coli1> yes i did not know they would be dubbed with nicer voice
<popey> haha
<benanzo> I understand.  The original creator can make the screencast in full, then offer transcripts and just the video for someone else to translate.
<popey> yes, that makes sense
<davmor2> no I mean that if there are a couple of people doing the speech for each translation that it adds to the uniformity
* Coli1 cancels his voice coaching lessons.
* tonytiger nods
<popey> quite a bit of work to create a transcript
<popey> ahh davmor2 get you now
<tonytiger> And then translating it.
<benanzo> that's true, maybe just some bullet points
<tonytiger> I suspect that what davmor2 suggests is how it would work out anyway.
<willvdl> it really shouldn't be that hard for an experienced user to translate but it would help for consistency
<tonytiger> i.e. a french speaker interested in contributing comes along and offers to dub a load of screencasts.
<popey> ok, this kinda covers the "internationalisation" section well
<davmor2> that way you can get loads of video of the same standard then a couple of good voice overs for each video
<popey> in fact if someone *just* recorded the audio, that would be fine
<popey> they could send a WAV of the right duration to us for dubbing
<benanzo> realistically, anyone can pull down a complete video, strip the audio and the slides and remaster it in a different language.  Are we just looking for a better way to streamline the translation process
<popey> rather than them have to do the dubbing themselves
<tonytiger> popey: Good idea.
<popey> kinda
<popey> anyone can benanzo yes, but should we make them do all that
<popey> all we "need" them to do is translate and record their voice
<popey> if we dub then it saves a lot of effort on their part
<tonytiger> It would be good if someone could just record themselves using Audacity and submit it to someone to do the hard work.
<Coli1> i agree
<popey> they dont need to download the full size mpeg, just the ogg - or even watch the flash video
<popey> yes tonytiger
<popey> ok, we have deviated slightly :)_
<popey> anything else on the roadmap before we move on?
<tonytiger> No
<popey> ok, next item is:  * Tools and methods
<popey>   * Discuss the method used for screencasting
<popey> Currently I use QEMU to host a virtual machine on my desktop. I record that window using xvidcap to record to an AVI file at 1024x768.
<popey> I then use various tools to convert to other formats and generally get them ready for distribution.
<popey> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ScreencastTeam/RecordingScreencasts shows how I record screencasts. This page needs some love, and could probably benefit from being broken up into easy steps rather than being one monolithic page.
<popey> It is also possible to run the demo on another machine and connect via VNC, then record the VNC client window using xvidcap (or whatever).
<popey> Discuss :)
<willvdl> the 1024x768 thing...
<willvdl> I find it still hard to read, perhaps because of the encoding
<popey> on which video? flash/ogg or avi?
<willvdl> both
<willvdl> well, flash is quite lossy
<popey> flash I expect, because it gets downsized as well as compressed
<popey> ogg/avi shouldn't be too bad
<tonytiger> I find the ogg fine.
<willvdl> the other thing is that it makes the vids quite large...
<benanzo> ogg/avi is fine.  I don't think we can expect too much from flv anyway
<popey> it does make them large
<popey> indeed, flv is a "nice to have" for the youtubers
<benanzo> right
<willvdl> so for us Africans, it is very inaccessible
<popey> the large videos are a worry
<popey> there is work we can do there though
<popey> we can either downsize the video (makes it less readable)
<popey> or we can drop the bitrate (I think? tonytiger ?)
<tonytiger> Yeah.
<popey> I have used the default settings when using ffmpeg2theora
<tonytiger> Again you sacrifice clarity in doing so.
<willvdl> bitrate I reckon. there is not that much "action"
<popey> I suspect dropping the bitrate for the audio and video would help quite a bit
<Shish> I would think 800x600 is plenty; and an upsized small video is easier to read than a downsized large one~
<tonytiger> Audio can be pushed very low.
<popey> I need to test that out
<popey> thats a good point Shish
<Coli1> i think there should still be a high quality version though, for us bandwidth fat cats.
<Shish> Could audio be speex?
<popey> some dialogs dont fit in 800x600 though, its only a few though
<popey> Shish: I guess we are limited by the container formats we use, ogg, avi, flv
<tonytiger> Shish: The codec is sort of irrelevant TBH
<willvdl> I would like to have 800x600 as a preference.
<popey> ah, so we could use vorbis but very low bitrate
<tonytiger> That's not to say speex couldn't be one of them, I AFAIK you can't use it in video containers (?)
<Coli1> i vote for 800x600 that is what i did my attempts in.
<benanzo> I've never tried
<tonytiger> popey: Yes, 56kps is probably the lowest reasonable.
<Shish> eh? It's an audio codec, you can put it in whatever container you want...
<popey> ok, I'm getting an 800x600 vibe here :)
<popey> Shish: only if the player plays it
<popey> I have seen some players not like codec A in container B
<tonytiger> popey: Personally I prefer 1024x768, but I accept I have a lot more bandwidth than some places.
<Shish> yeah, that's what I was getting at with my first point -- does ubuntu support it out of the box?
<popey> we need these things to play in totem to be first target
<willvdl> also default preference for containers/codecs/formats that come "out-the-box"
<popey> yeah, which is why ogg/theora/vorbis are #1 choice for us
<tonytiger> I think vorbis/theora covers the Linux market.
<willvdl> viewer should not *have* to download codecs if they can't
<popey> agreed willvdl
<Shish> speex is from the ogg group, same as vorbis
<popey> Windows/Mac is a whole other story
<willvdl> urk, true
<popey> Shish: does ffmpeg "do" speex?
<popey> I can do some tests with the mpeg master videos I have, and post some comparative sizes
<tonytiger> popey: Doesn't seem to.
<popey> I can also do some tests with 800x600 compared with 1024x768
<popey> Shish: what programs can create speex?
<Shish> ummm, speexenc? I haven't actually done much with it <_<;
<davmor2> why not do 2 1024x768 for dvd/cd and 800x600 for tinternet
<popey> davmor2: then we would have to re-record everything
<popey> if we have to have two versions of every video
<davmor2> true
<popey> better to have one size fits all (which it wont)
<willvdl> there can be an exception for dialogues that don't fit 800x600
<popey> we cant please everyone, but to impose a silly-large resolution on people with bandwidth-impaired connections seems wrong to me
<willvdl> (and maybe it will make developers rethink their dialogs)
<popey> we need to listen to people on low speed connections, because they may well be the kinds of people who cant afford training
<willvdl> ++
<popey> I will run a machine at 800x600 for a while and see how much doesnt fit
<popey> ok, so, in conclusion we need to a) update the process documents, b) look to use more efficient encoding, c) look to use lower resolution for the videos?
<popey> 800x600 also has te benefit that the person recording will have less load on their system
<benanzo> I've recorded a couple screencasts by using a separate user account instead of qemu.  It really only works as long as you're demonstrating superficial things, not like installing packages or other invasive stuff.
<davmor2> good plan but why not try doing the same set of vids in both sizes to pick the best for quality then vote on it for the next meeting?
<popey> benanzo: that's a good method, I have tried that too
<popey> well, we already know how good 1024x768 looks
<popey> I just need to make some 800x600 to compare
<popey> plus there is the time factor
<willvdl> davmor2, ++
<popey> I can create one screencast in both resolutions
<popey> a nice simple 2 minute one, would that be okay?
<tonytiger> Sounds good.
<benanzo> pending the results, I vote for 800x600 because I have bugs
<popey> then encode in diffierent formats and so on
<popey> hehe, understandable benanzo
<popey> you are not the only one
<popey> that bug has sent a few people nuts!
<popey> ok, shall we move on?
<benanzo> no kidding
<benanzo> righto
<popey> some of this we have covered
<popey> I will paste in anyway so we all are on the same page:-
<popey>   * How can we streamline the processes and make it easier for people to get involved in our team?
<davmor2> sound good then just throw up a poll on the site, which can log the votes
<popey> I appreciate some people find xvidcap difficult / slow to use. I have been contacted by the author of xvidcap (Karl Beckers), I'm sure he would love to have some input from us as to how the product can be improved. I know other tools are available such as Istanbul and Recordmydesktop, and if others can use them, and achieve similar results as I do with xvidcap then go for it!
<popey> ok davmor2
<popey>   * Should we care what tools people use
* Shish humms, notes that ffmpeg claims to be able to capture from x11
<popey> No, so long as the content created meets our criteria for quality and the videos can easily be converted to other formats for distribution, I don't care what tools are used to create the screencasts.
<benanzo> I've never had good luck with istanbul
<willvdl> popey, the technical side is one. The proposal/review is another
<popey> Shish: it can, yes
<popey> Shish: http://popey.com/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?VideoDemos/FfmpegOnly
<popey> benanzo: me neither
<Coli1> popey when you say ' I don't care what tools are used to create the screencasts.' does that include Windows???
<popey> no
<popey> :)
<popey> well
<Coli1> doh :-)
<popey> thats a tricky one
<popey> what do we think?
<popey> personally I would rather use free tools
<popey> should we forgive those you use tools like camtasia on windows?
<popey> and let them contribute?
<Coli1> i agree, but i have old machines :-( and xvidcap does not work for me.
<popey> i think maybe I should relax that one, and say, go for it, do whatever works for you, to make demos
<benanzo> right, I think that's the point, but if non-free tools are used to essentially *promote* a free alternative, I think it's fine.
<Coli1> i will try again to get ubuntu dual booting at work on my good pc.
<Coli1> and then do screencasts after work.
<popey> yes benanzo
<tonytiger> popey: It depends on whether the screencasts project wants to be able to get the videos for their own archiving in a format like MPEG2.
<popey> yeah, if the only result you can generate is .flv I am not interested :)
<Coli1> but it was not working for me and staying at work is hard because people still think i am working and ask me stuff.
<tonytiger> popey: Quite :)
<popey> so for example wink is out, as is vnc2swf, because they only generate .flv
<davmor2> what license are you publishing them under
<popey> but if you send me an mpeg2 or avi of 800x600 at high bit rate I should not care how you made it
<popey> davmor2: http://doc.ubuntu.com/screencasts/license
<Shish> is it just me, or is xvidcap not available as an ubuntu package?
<popey> Shish: correct
<popey> yet
<popey> there is a deb for it
<popey> http://sourceforge.net/projects/xvidcap/
<popey> ok, I will clarify that stipulation
<popey> is everyone happy with that? "we dont care how you make it, so long as its in a usable format and is of the quality we require"?
<Shish> seems sensible
<tonytiger> Yes.
<Coli1> i agree. (but will try 'free tools and OS')
<popey> ok, lets crack on..
<popey> good man Coli1
<benanzo> right.
<popey> if its too much pain, dont worry
<popey>  * Keeping current
<popey>   * Should we mandate all new screencasts should be done on Feisty, is there a place for Edgy/Dapper?
<tonytiger> There's a place for Dapper.
<popey> There probably is a place for Dapper and Edgy, especially as some will not upgrade yet to Feisty, especially corporate desktop users (although questionable whether they would gain as much from a screencast as a fresh new user). I would like to see as many Feisty screencasts as is technically possible.
<Coli1> i support 6.06 LTS :-)
<popey> Especially given there are such fundamental changes in feisty as the Gnome Control Center, the automatic codec grabber thing and binary packages in general.
<popey> (note: I don't want to get into a philosophical discussion about the relative merits of binary packages in ubuntu and the free-ness of it, that's not our concern as the screencast team really)
<tonytiger> I think any current LTS release and whatever is the current release are the obvious choices.
<Coli1> the Ubuntu Cd's are 6.06 so that is what people are picking up
<davmor2> I think current and lts and only reproduce any intrim vids where things change massively
<popey> true Coli1
<Shish> "Get the latest version" is much simpler than "video X applies to ubuntu Y, video Z applies to ubuntu N, video G applies to ubuntu J"...
<popey> heh
<popey> we can tag videos on the site
<Seeker`> Perhaps there is a place for Dapper, as it is LTS, but if people are using edgy then perhaps they arent as interested in LTS, so edgy may be a bit of a wasted effort
<popey> to show what versions they apply to
<popey> ok, so I am hearing we do need to think about dapper, and current release is good too
<tonytiger> yup
<popey> maybe for current release we stick to stuff we know isnt massively changing?
<popey> e.g. approprirate in edgy to demo how to use evolution for example
<Coli1> i think 'generic' application stuff should be in LTS and then highlights or specials on the latest release.
<popey> not appropriate might be codec downloading, because we know that is changing massively?
<tonytiger> For stuff you produce in the next two months, you mean popey ?
<Shish> depending on how close the next release is and how long we plan to work on screencasts before a big announcement, maybe LTS and current+1 would be more appropriate?
<davmor2> lts is important in schools.  etc for stability
<popey> current+1 can be somewhat hairy!
<popey> and the UI can change pretty soon before a release
<popey> I agree with Dapper and Current
<tonytiger> davmor2: workplaces in general, I think
<popey> but if someone wants to make a current+1 screencast I am not going to stop them
<Shish> I mean if it's in feature freeze, ie, fairly stable
<popey> sure Shish
<popey> thats the plan :)
<davmor2> well that's what the etc was for :)
<tonytiger> Shish: The artwork for Edgy changed two days before release. :)
<benanzo> I've been doing screencasts on topics not incredibly cutting edge, so really it's fine do use any recent version since it will apply across current or near-future versions
<popey> yeah, there are loads of topics which are nice and generic
<popey> any other comments about releases?
<davmor2> no covers it I think
<popey> Ok, so we should target dapper and current, but current+1 is acceptable if we are close to a release?
<tonytiger> s/dapper/lts/
<popey> yes
<popey> ok, next item:-
<popey> * How do we best keep in contact with the developers to find out what is new within apps, and what new apps are being delivered, or in the pipeline?
<popey> This I do not know. :)
<tonytiger> :)
<benanzo> so at what point are we re-recording old screencasts?  when the methods have changed or when a new version arrives (even though the method is the same)
<popey> benanzo: thats another item we will come to in a mo
<Shish> when following the instructions stops working, I'd say
<tonytiger> "when there's a significant and noticable difference" IMHO
<benanzo> k
<popey> actually
<popey> yes talk about this now
<popey> we will come back to talking to the developers
<popey> I agree, if something is wrong/ stops working / is no longer appropriate it may need re-recording
<benanzo> ok, so the dapper LTS would be fine to stay posted even after the next LTS arrives as long as the methods haven't changed?  or are we planning to do a new vid just for that version?
<tonytiger> Does the old version then get dropped from teh site?
<popey> benanzo: we could keep both
<Shish> I would think "marked as 'only applies to version X'" rather than dropped
<popey> agreed
<benanzo> right.
<tonytiger> Shish: good idea
<popey> we can tag on the site, so can use version number as a tag to show that
<popey> we can also put in the notes "for release x+1, see this screencast also:-"
<popey> so in general we dont delete stuff
<popey> if we were pressing a cd/dvd we might consider leaving out older stuff for space reasons
<popey> make sense?
<benanzo> y
<tonytiger> yes
<popey> ok, moving on,
<popey>  * How do we best keep in contact with the developers to find out what is new within apps, and what new apps are being delivered, or in the pipeline?
<popey> I am thinking, when reading developers blogs, we are mindful of the screencast project
<Coli1> popey some sort of screencasts newsletter???
<popey> so that as people blog about new stuff, we add it to the requests page
<popey> I am more thinking, "how do we find out whats coming up, so that we can be ready to screencast it"
<tonytiger> I think that will follow pretty naturally with even a handful of interested people in the project.
<Coli1> sent to developers so they know what we are demoing or want to demo
<Shish> yeah, I can't think of a clean way of doing it automatically -- just paying attention to developers and having a public to-do list would be ok
<popey> Coli1: not sure theyd be interested :)
<popey> yes Shish
<benanzo> I think the majority of effort on this should go toward informing them that this project exists.  I think they would find it in their own interest to keep us informed
<popey> Ok, so nothing we could specifically do, but keep eyes open
<davmor2> could you not get the devs putting new stuff in to drop it on a wiki or is there not a change log
<linuxphotogeek> There is a "What's New in Fiesty" page on the wiki. Rich with ideas
<popey> you got a url linuxphotogeek ?
<linuxphotogeek> So there will be a Whats new in Fiesty+1 page.
* linuxphotogeek looking
<benanzo> brb
<willvdl> well, apart from decyphering LP specs :)
<popey> heh
<popey> ok, well I dont see this as a high priority problem
<popey> moving on...
<willvdl> the doc team is usually in line in general
<popey> heh
<popey> matt east said they have the same issues in the doc team :)
<willvdl> following the release notes should suffice
<popey> ok, next item - I plan to rattle through these.. keep up at the back :)
<popey>  * Communication
<popey>   * Should we have a separate mailing list, focus discussion of screencasts
<popey> "yes"
<popey>   * Separate IRC channel
<popey> "yes"
<willvdl> "no" better to not dilute the community IMHO
<popey> currently we are using ubuntu-doc and #ubuntu-doc
<linuxphotogeek> Found them = http://www.ubuntu.com/testing/herd3 and http://www.ubuntu.com/testing/herd2
<popey> well, I would say we keep in contact with the -doc team
<popey> thanks linuxphotogeek
<willvdl> it's easier if you use the same channel. if the bandwidth gets big enough to warrant it then create a new channel/list
<popey> fair point
<willvdl> we face a similar issue in edubuntu
<davmor2> I think it would be good to have separate irc but combined mail that way we can keep our eye on what is going on in general
<popey> ok, lets stay where we are, but will look at this in the future at an unspecified date?
<willvdl> +
<willvdl> the irc channel does not have that much noise. better to leverage from the doc-team
<popey> indeed
<Shish> I'd say stay until screencasting talk starts using more bandwidth than other doc talk
<popey> we can learn good stuff from them
<popey> yes, Shish agreed
<willvdl> and pull in new contributers
<popey> ah, also good point
<linuxphotogeek> some of them are us!
<popey> ok, last point before any other business..
<popey>  * Accessibility
<popey>   * Should we add subtitles?
<tonytiger> Tricky.
<Coli1> how easy is that?
<popey> or, transcripts (which we already suggested for translation purposes)
<willvdl> ooh. affects localisation again
<popey> I dont know
<popey> but I envisage this will be somewhat time consuming
<willvdl> transcripts makes more sense I guess
<tonytiger> Tricky, tricky, tricky.
<frederific> hmm, could we combine the 2?
<willvdl> two birds, one stone
<frederific> Have a number pop-up in the bottom right every so often, which matches up to a number on a transcript?
<tonytiger> You're almost certainly looking at more post-processing with Kino or Cinelerra for on-screen subtitles.
* popey doesnt know
<Shish> if using ogg, we could have many subtitles in one file, and let the user choose which (if any) to view
<frederific> (my way would also be easier to translate I think)
<tonytiger> Shish: Oh, true.
<tonytiger> Shish: How do you generate them though?
<popey> Shish: that would mean re-making the ogg every time a new set of subtitles are made?
<linuxphotogeek>  Farm this out - opportunity to pull in volunteers that can't screencast
<Shish> remuxing yes, but not reencoding
<popey> which also means re-uploading
<Shish> yeah :-/
<tonytiger> That's tough with archive.org
<frederific> but its not just off is it? People also watch the google video, mpeg, etc; what about them?
<popey> shall we look at transcripts first, subtitles possibly later?
<popey> tonytiger: we dont use archive.org any more
<popey> all hosted by us on doc.ubuntu.com
<Coli1> everything can't be done straight away
<frederific> *ogg btw
<popey> it would be very time consuming
<popey> text is easier for us to update
<popey> on the site that is
<Shish> we *could* store video, audio, and subtitle streams seperately, then mux them on the fly when the user downloads, if anyone feels up to programming that :P
<popey> hahaha
* popey pegs that as "nice to have"
<popey> transcript then?
<popey> for now?
<Shish> yeah
<frederific> yeah, transcripts are good
<popey> ok, finally
<popey> any other business?
<benanzo> are we looking a word-for-word transcripts or notes
<linuxphotogeek> Has any one done a screencasting screencast?
<Coli1> i think it should be word for word so help with the translating.
<frederific> linuxphotogeek: I think Ive seen one
<tonytiger> It's on the list, IIRC :)
<Shish> back to technical bits, I've been trying out xvidcap during this conversation -- a 640x480 capture is maxing out my 2GHz box, and only capturing 75% of frames at that...
<benanzo> are you running qemy
<benanzo> qemu
<tonytiger> linuxphotogeek: Not quite a screencast on screencasting, but popey did a talk on it: http://hantslug.org.uk/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?TechTalks/5thAugust2006
<Shish> nope, just a regular desktop
<Coli1> linuxphotogeek i did a screencasting screencast but it used a 'bad' OS :-)
<benanzo> yikes
<Shish> I suspect I could fiddle with settings to get more out of it (ie, not encode to mpeg4 in realtime)
<tonytiger> That's advisable.
<popey> I encode to mpeg2 / avi
<popey> no audio
<popey> however this is a dual-core 2.2GHz machine
<davmor2> have you discussed what content to include?
<popey> I have planned on doing a screencasting screencast
<jwsurrey> Hi guys, i've joined an hour late, will this be archived somewhere i can find later?  Popey, can you remind me that web address good for irc, i need to return to wifey and lurk using [cough]  a non-ubuntu mechanism (they exist!). Ta!  PS: solns for a 500MHz box???
<popey> davmor2: no because thats on the wiki already, what did you want to say/ask/suggest?
<popey> hi jwsurrey yes, I will archive and summarise too
<willvdl> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/  ?
<benanzo> i miraculously am able to play back 1280x800 video using mplayer and -vo x11 instead of xv.  weird.
<popey> ok, so anything that needs sorting in the meeting that we can't talk about in -doc?
<benanzo> anyway, I'm on a 2.2ghz core duo and got 6 frames/sec
<Shish> Yeah, I've found xv is faster for small video, but really choppy for anything more than 640x480 :|
<popey> I'd like to wrap this up soon
<popey> benanzo: I get ~20fps on this
<tonytiger> Sounds like some time to talk about technical issues might be appreciated.
<frederific> we've got another 40mins booked, may as well us it
<popey> yes tonytiger
<davmor2> when the next meeting going to be?
<popey> hehe okay
<benanzo> hmmm
<popey> that s next on the agenda davmor2 :)
<popey> is 2 weeks too soon? should we meet in 4 weeks?
<popey> I am open to suggestion
<tonytiger> What will have changed in 2 weeks?
<popey> ok, I need some actions then :)
<davmor2> no 2 weeks sort out the screen size issue it's a biggy to get sort asap
<willvdl> could have tested different resolutions...
<popey> yes
<popey> and compression rates
<Shish> do we have a screencast to-do list anywhere?
<davmor2> yes the wiki
<popey> Shish: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ScreencastTeam/Requests
<Shish> thanks
<popey> I dont understand why xvidcap is so fast for me, and slow for others
<popey> I dont know what I am doing differently
<tonytiger> Disk speed?
<benanzo> what are your prefs at
<davmor2> what's your setup
<davmor2> memory
<popey> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ScreencastTeam/RecordingScreencasts see that page
<davmor2> processor speed
<popey> look for "Set the preferences in xvidcap"
<popey> 2GB ram, core2duo 2.66GHz
<Coli1> how did you install ubuntu?  do you do something funny?  write your own kernel in binary? :-)
<popey> heh
<davmor2> that could do it
<popey> it's an up to date feisty install which was previously edgy - upgraded
<davmor2> 2 gig of memory
<popey> note I record to mpeg2 video
<popey> well, actually there is less available because I give 512MB to the virtual machine
<davmor2> yes but if you 256 or 512 and are giving half to the virtual machine then that explains a lot
<popey> guys, being really selfish here, but I would like to wrap up the meeting because I appear to have caught a bug from my daughter, not to put to finer point on it, I am not well :(
<willvdl> sweet
<davmor2> no excuse :-P
<benanzo> ..
<davmor2> tatz
<popey> ok, well thank you all for coming \o/
<davmor2> sed /z/a
<tonytiger> Good meeting popey
<benanzo> good meeting
<tonytiger> Well run.
<davmor2> not bad
<Coli1> yes, thanks for all your hard work so far
<popey> who is going to put the logs up? me?
<popey> oh, they're already there :)_
<popey> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/Screencast2007-02-12
<davmor2> vote pope \o/
<popey> ok, sorry to duck out, i *need* to go lie down
<willvdl> ciao
<popey> thanks again, will write up everything on the wiki and mail -doc
<popey> bye
<Coli1> cheero
<benanzo> bye
<tsmithe> @schedule
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: Current meeting: Screencast Team | 13 Feb 12:00: Community Council | 13 Feb 16:00: Forum Council | 13 Feb 20:00: Technical Board | 14 Feb 10:00: MOTU | 14 Feb 20:00: Edubuntu
<tsmithe> ooooh
* tsmithe is excited about tomorrow's CC meeting
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 13 Feb 12:00 UTC: Community Council | 13 Feb 16:00 UTC: Forum Council | 13 Feb 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 14 Feb 10:00 UTC: MOTU | 14 Feb 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 15 Feb 05:00 UTC: IRC Operators
#ubuntu-meeting 2007-02-13
<effie_jayx> !schedule caracas
<effie_jayx> @schedule caracas
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Caracas: 13 Feb 08:00: Community Council | 13 Feb 12:00: Forum Council | 13 Feb 16:00: Technical Board | 14 Feb 06:00: MOTU | 14 Feb 16:00: Edubuntu | 15 Feb 01:00: IRC Operators
<Seveas> @schedule amsterdam
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Amsterdam: 13 Feb 13:00: Community Council | 13 Feb 17:00: Forum Council | 13 Feb 21:00: Technical Board | 14 Feb 11:00: MOTU | 14 Feb 21:00: Edubuntu | 15 Feb 06:00: IRC Operators
<jsgotangco> @schedule manila
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Asia/Manila: 13 Feb 20:00: Community Council | 14 Feb 00:00: Forum Council | 14 Feb 04:00: Technical Board | 14 Feb 18:00: MOTU | 15 Feb 04:00: Edubuntu | 15 Feb 13:00: IRC Operators
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: Community Council | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 13 Feb 16:00 UTC: Forum Council | 13 Feb 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 14 Feb 10:00 UTC: MOTU | 14 Feb 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 15 Feb 05:00 UTC: IRC Operators
<alex_muntada> @schedule barcelona
<alex_muntada> @schedule andorra
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Andorra: Current meeting: Community Council | 13 Feb 17:00: Forum Council | 13 Feb 21:00: Technical Board | 14 Feb 11:00: MOTU | 14 Feb 21:00: Edubuntu | 15 Feb 06:00: IRC Operators
<Seveas> gooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooodmorning :)
<Admiral_Chicago> oh it's a healty 6 am here
<Admiral_Chicago> morning
<jsgotangco> hello
<elkbuntu> no, sorry, that's in an hour :
<tsmithe> hiya Seveas
<tsmithe> hiya Hobbsee
<jsgotangco> i must be dreaming, i finally got to attend CC again
<jsgotangco> hehe
<Seveas> jsgotangco, heh
<elkbuntu> jsgotangco, yes, i know. i keep looking to see if im supposed to be counting sheep
<Seveas> jsgotangco/elkbuntu: that's actually why this time was picked
<elkbuntu> Seveas, :)
<jsgotangco> yeah poor us living in the far east and the pacific
<jsgotangco> hehe
<Seveas> there aren't enough sheep left in .au for elkbuntu to eat^Wcount
<amachu> Hi, this is sriramadas (nick: amachu) from Ubuntu Tamil Team
<Seveas> hi amachu
<Hobbsee> hey tsmithe!
<Hobbsee> CC is on now?
<tsmithe> heya
<Hobbsee> nice
<amachu> Seveas: Hi
<tsmithe> yeah :)
<Seveas> Hobbsee, it's on when the council arrives
<elkbuntu> Seveas, wasnt me that ate them, im not so much a fan of lamb.
<tsmithe> mmmm lamb
<tsmithe> mutton?
<Seveas> elkbuntu, shrimps!
<elkbuntu> Seveas, scallops!
<alex_muntada> amachu: good to see you here, too
<elkbuntu> Seveas, we need to get ourselves into that cafeteria again somehow
<Seveas> elkbuntu, www.google.com/employment
<amachu> alex_muntada: Thank You
<elkbuntu> Seveas, im not smart enough :(
<effie_jayx> ok.. I just got hungr... brb
<jsgotangco> hahaha
<Hobbsee> Seveas: of course.  glad to see that it hasnt changed.
<elkbuntu> Seveas, and fyi, it's /jobs
<Hobbsee> Seveas: 404'd
<Hobbsee> ah
<jsgotangco> hahahhaa
<Seveas> hi lyz
<pleia2> hey Seveas
<Seveas> The agnda for today is https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda
<Seveas> Hopefully the meeting will start soon
<Seveas> cjwatson, elmo: ping
<amachu> ok
<elmo> I'm here
<nocturn> Hi guys
<Seveas> elmo, welcome!
* Hobbsee wonders when  a new CC will be chosen?
<dinda> Seveas - I'm/ we're here with the Ubuntu-Women's Project
<Seveas> Hobbsee, Soon(tm)
<Hobbsee> Seveas: how soon?  as in, today?
<Hobbsee> hey dinda!
<ShankarGanesh> hello there
<ShankarGanesh> everybody
<Seveas> Hobbsee, as in Soon(tm)
* elkbuntu takes Hobbsee's red cordial off her.
<Hobbsee> elkbuntu: red cordial?  now there's a good idea...
<Hobbsee> Seveas: pathetic.
<elkbuntu> well crap.
<amachu> ShankarGanesh: hi Shankar Ganesh also represents Ubuntu Tamil Team
<Seveas> amachu, is tamilteam on the agenda?
<dinda> Seveas - did you see the pics from he pilot?  the snowball one is great of you - imho
<mako> greetings
<tsmithe> hi mako
<Seveas> dinda, I saw them but I still don't agree with the description "boyband"
<MikeB-> hey mako
<Seveas> hi mako
<dinda> lol - that was Billy, I promise
<Seveas> were 2/3 there with CC availability
<elkbuntu> Seveas in a boyband? this I *got* to see...
<Seveas> unless I missed cjwatson somehow
<amachu> Seveas: I have applied for Membership
<dinda> oh, and I have vidoe of him singing too!
<mako> i'm making coffe right now :)
<elkbuntu> dinda, ol buddy, ol' pal!
<dinda> He did a Great job - really
<dinda> now I can't get that song out of my head, "Always look on the bright side of life. .  "
<tsmithe> hi Vorian :)
<Vorian> hey tsmithe :)
<tsmithe> :)
<elmo> sabdfl's apparently on his way...
<Seveas> elmo, very nice! I thought he was not able to make it
<jsgotangco> yay
<cjwatson> hi, sorry
<Seveas> hi colin
<Seveas> nocturn, good to see you made it
<Seveas> cjwatson, elmo, mako: shall we get startd once mako has coffee or dowe wait for mark?
<nocturn> Seveas: I hope I can stay (I'm at work)
<elmo> if colin's happy to be part of the meeting (I thought we'd let him off of CC duties - he did resign after all), we may as well get started.  we have quorum and Mark can catch up
<gnomefreak> elmo Seveas cjwatson mako if im not around i would like to say that Admiral_Chicago (freddy) has been doing alot of bugs, wikis, and alot of work with the mozilla-team (im sure a few others will be here to cheer also from that team)
<nocturn> So excuse me if I have to leave during the meeting...
<Seveas> gnomefreak, noted, thanks!
<gnomefreak> :)
<Seveas> elmo, ah sorry, didn't know that yet
<cjwatson> elmo: I can if need be, but if you're happy with just three for today I'd certainly rather be doing other things
<elmo> cjwatson: as a compromise, would you mind puppeting as mark till he arrives?
<jsgotangco> :D
<cjwatson> sure
<mako> sound good then
<Seveas> ok, let's get started
<Seveas> Dennis Kaarsemaker
<Seveas> 
<Seveas> Expiring members
<Seveas> I took the liberty of extending Paul Sladens membership until the meeting but we should implement a procedure for handling expired members
<sabdfl> hi all
<Seveas> hi sabdfl !
<gnomefreak> hi sabdfl
<tsmithe> hello sabdfl
<Hobbsee> yay, sabdfl!
<nocturn> Hi sabdfl
<amachu> hi sabdfl
<alex_muntada> hi sabdfl
<Seveas> we were about to start the meting with point one on the agenda
<Seveas> so, let's repeat that:
<mako> cjwatson: lucky :)
<Seveas> Dennis Kaarsemaker
<Seveas> 
<Seveas> Expiring members
<Seveas> I took the liberty of extending Paul Sladens membership until the meeting but we should implement a procedure for handling expired members
* sladen looks around
<Seveas> in the mean time Paul Sladen and Brandon Hale have expired (well, their membership), but they are still members via ubuntu-(core-)dev
<mako> so i talked to a few LP people in mountainview
<mako> about having the pinging and such be automatic
<jenda> Hello
<sabdfl> that work is underway, iirc, and may already have landed just not deployed
<mako> so that folks that were interested in staying members could just reply to something quickly and stay on board
<mako> sabdfl: right
<jenda> sorry for being late
<mako> Seveas: so in the mean time, i guess we just do it by hand
<Seveas> mako, ok
<alex_muntada> hi jenda
<jenda> (could someone please pastebin me the backlog?)
<mako> Seveas: someone sends and email and asks if they want to renew their membership
<tsmithe> jenda, ok
<sabdfl> have pinged salgado who was working on that
<Seveas> will renewing involve coming to a meeting?
<mako> Seveas: if they do, we renew a year, that's it :)
<mako> Seveas: not until they don't respond and we unreg them
<Seveas> mako, how about "we're not sure whether you are still contributing" cases
<sabdfl> in the case of people who are members via another team, like artwork or edubuntu or kubuntu or -dev, i think we should encourage them just to maintain that angle
<mako> Seveas: we trust them to make that distinction on their own
<Admiral_Chicago> jenda: http://pastebin.ca/353506 you didn't miss anything
<jsgotangco> +1
<sabdfl> in other words, minimise the CC interaction, delegating as much as possible
<jenda> Admiral_Chicago: thanks - for some reason I panicked and thought it was a different meeting ;)
<Seveas> sabdfl, so bhale and sladen can stay on expired because they still are in -dev
<mako> Seveas: it's not bulletproof, but if we don't trust folks, we shouldn't make them members in the first place
<sabdfl> yes
<sladen> it depends whether -member is the representation of agreement with an idealogy (the CoC) or a declaration of consistent commitment
<bhale> ah, sorry i am sortof here
<sabdfl> i think we could get the expiration email to even describe that explicitly
<mako> sabdfl: yes, that's right
<mako> Seveas: we can work on that text now, and then whatever we come up with probably be send when LP starts doing it
<Seveas> mako, sounds good - shall I work on some words and e-mail it to cc@?
<sabdfl> "your direct membership in team foobar will expire in 4 days, but because you are a member in the following teams you will effectively stay active in foobar:
<sabdfl>  - bazbar
<sabdfl>  - blubar
<sabdfl> "
<mako> Seveas: sure, or we can put a draft in the wiki
<mako> Seveas: whatever works
<Seveas> ok, so nothing for that needed in this meeting right now afaics
<Seveas> let's move on unless someone objects (respond quickl if you do :))
<Seveas> Belinda Lopez
<Seveas> 
<Seveas> Ubuntu Women's Project - Website admins for the domain have been unresponsive, we have no access to the main site, Project leaders have gone missing as well, we want to move forward but make sure previous leaders/admins have had an opportunity to step down. Should we be considered a Loco Team?
<dinda> We're here: dinda pleia2  nurseGirl hobbsee
<dinda> Greetings all!
<Seveas> hi dinda
<sabdfl> hey guys
<jsgotangco> wha? she's still not a member all this time?
<mako> hola
<sabdfl> yes, i think the general process should be similar to a loco team
<dinda> lol - next meeting I'll be ready!
<Hobbsee> jsgotangco: sorry?
<sabdfl> who are the website admins and project leaders?
<dinda> Pleia2 can give those names?
* Hobbsee will admit to not knowing much about the project, nor knowing much about it.  from the outside, it looks interesting though.
* Hobbsee cant really plead the case as a loco team.
<pleia2> sabdfl: currently Vidya Ayer is the only one who has access to the website, she also controls the Launchpad team and mailing list
<pleia2> she even called herself the project lead, but she pretty much was, she was the one who spearheaded the creation
<pleia2> s/even/never
<mako> pleia2: and is unresponsive atm?
<pleia2> mako: the last I heard from her was late December, I have emailed her twice since then
<sabdfl> ok, i have contact details for vidya
<mako> yeah, so do i
<sabdfl> who would be the new leader?
<mako> one of us should send an email and if we don't hear back in a week or so, we'll xfer stuff over
<mako> sabdfl: should you do it or should i? i'm happy to right now
<sabdfl> lp allows us to add admins to the team
<pleia2> I'd volunteer to be the new leader, I've been with the group since almost the beginning
<sabdfl> mako: i'll do it, right away, and cc the cc
<dindatx> sorry, connection reset
* mako nods
<mako> ok.. we can also just add another admin right now
<sabdfl> do we have consensus from the folks here that pleia2 would be a good admin for the lp team?
<dindatx> definitely
<sabdfl> and also website admin if we need to add that?
<pleia2> thanks dinda
<Hobbsee> from the little i see of it, yep.
<sabdfl> i don't know how the website stuff works. elmo?
<elkbuntu> i'm in the same situation as hobbsee with this
<pleia2> sabdfl: the UW site is on a loco box (if that helps)
<pleia2> you'd need my ssh key
<elmo> sabdfl: we can recover it and give others access
<NurseGirl> I support pleia2, definitely
<sabdfl> pleia2: pls privmsg me your email address and full name, and lp username
<sabdfl> mako, could you make pleia2 an admin on the ubuntu-women lp team?
<sabdfl> if we don't hear from vidya in a week we can make pleia2 the owner, and one of the other women an admin as a backup
<mako> sabdfl: sure
<sabdfl> mako, if you need lp-admin to do that you should have it
<mako> sabdfl: i'll let you know in a second
<sabdfl> mako: pleia2 is lyz in lp
<pleia2> and just for the record, Vidya did tons of work with this group and her contributions are greatly valued
<mako> sabdfl: i do need lp-admin
<mako> pleia2: absolutely
<dindatx> all of the previous folks did great work, which is why we didn't want to just take over
<MikeB-> pleia2: probably a case of real life taking over, hopefully she will be back
<pleia2> MikeB-: nod, before I lost contact entirely she was quite busy (since about August I've been trying to get changes made on the site, she's been busy)
<dindatx> both Pleia2 and I emailed Jono for guidance and he recommended we come here for help
<elmo> mako: I'll do it
<sabdfl> mako: sent
<Seveas> is the website access being done now as well or will that be waiting unitl Vidya had a chanceto respond to that e-mail?
<sabdfl> pleia2: cc'd you, let us know if there's no reply to you in a week
<sabdfl> website should wait
<pleia2> sabdfl: thank you
<sabdfl> in lp we can *add* an admin
<Seveas> ok
<elmo> I've made pleia2 an admin of u-w in LP now
<mako> awesome
<dindatx> thanks
<pleia2> thanks
<Seveas> ok, that's all for the ubuntu-womens team for now I guess
<dindatx> no we can move forward following the Loco Team format
<dindatx> no = now
<Seveas> yup
<Seveas> let's hope to see you back as LoCoTeam in one of the next meetings!
<dindatx> anything else, Pleia2?
<sabdfl> btw, salgado says that we should be sending daily notifications to people who's memberships expire within a week
<Seveas> sabdfl, ewwww....
<sabdfl> if anyone here did *not* get such a heads-up in thelast few days, please contact salgado to debug
<jsgotangco> ohhh
<Seveas> that's too spammy to my taste :)
<mako> sabdfl: daily notifications mean there is a batch send once a day
<jsgotangco> at least we show we care hehe
<sabdfl> mako: yes
<mako> sabdfl: not you get a single email EVERY DAY after you have expired
<sabdfl> not after you expire
<sabdfl> in the week before
<mako> ok
<pleia2> dindatx: there is the mailing list too, but we might want to wait to tackle that with the website access after a week
<sabdfl> then you get the "you have expired" mail
<sabdfl> then radio silence
<Seveas> ok, so we're moving on to locoteams
<mako> sounds good
<Seveas> Anyone from ubuntu-ve?
<effie_jayx> Me
<Seveas> Rolando Blanco?
<effie_jayx> here is here
<rolando-ve> Hi
<sabdfl> Seveas: i think this choice was the simplest, feel free to talk with kiko and salgado about other ideas
<sabdfl> less spammy ones
<Seveas> hi rolando-ve and effie_jayx
<mako> ok
<effie_jayx> hi all
<rolando-ve> Hi Seveas! hi all
<effie_jayx> Seveas,  hi :D
<Seveas> do you have an english wikipage/websote about ubuntu-ve?
<Seveas> I'm afraidI don't speak spanish
<effie_jayx> Seveas,  our proposal is in english
<Seveas> (and please ignore my bad spelling, I'm feeling a bit ill)
<Seveas> effie_jayx, where is it? The CC agenda links to a spanish page
<effie_jayx> Seveas,  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/VenezuelaTeam/ApprovalApplication
<effie_jayx> sorry about that
<elkbuntu> C3s4r, is also a member of ubuntu-ve. hola C3s4r :)
<Seveas> effie_jayx, how's the collaboration with other locoteams going?
<C3s4r> hi elkbuntu :D
<effie_jayx> Seveas,  well ... it has been interesting
<effie_jayx> this past few months we have helped them get stablished... but
<effie_jayx> they are also workigin in gathering more people to use the services...
<sabdfl> rolando-ve, effie_jayx: have things settled down with quidam now?
<sabdfl> i had mail fromhimrecently asking if the changes had been made
<sabdfl> they had, but he couldn't see that on the relevant lp page
<effie_jayx> sabdfl,  we have.. and we are working on the three admins to give direction to the team
<mako> that's all good to hear
<effie_jayx> Seveas,  in teams like ubuntu-do ... the main problem is they have power failiures
<effie_jayx> very frequntly... they don't stay online for long
<sabdfl> i'm glad those issues straightened out so nicely, well done
* mako nods to sabdfl enthusiastically
<effie_jayx> sabdfl,  quidam is a great friend of a friend of mine.. so no harm there
<mako> the ve team looks large and active from what i can see, you should be proud :)
<effie_jayx> sabdfl, here is really keen to see team he started go somewhere...
<effie_jayx> mako,  it has been the collective spirit of various LUGs in my country
<Seveas> mako, indeed, the -ve team has been a good example to other latin american teams
<mako> awesome :)
* elkbuntu agrees with Seveas.
<effie_jayx> the key has been to be open to freedom and brotherhood
<sabdfl> ok, i'm quite happy with the state of this loco team
<sabdfl> they've handled one change of leadership well, which is a good sign
<effie_jayx> something rolando has always tried to put in  everything
<sabdfl> and are organised with a clear plan
<sabdfl> so, +1 from me
<elmo> +1
<mako> +1 form me as well
<Seveas> Wel done rolando-ve, effie_jayx, C3s4r and others!
<elkbuntu> congrats venezuela :)
<Seveas> Congratulations!
<effie_jayx> :D
<rolando-ve> :D
* effie_jayx high five's rolando-ve 
<jatem> :D
<Seveas> sabdfl now has the stage for an extra item on the agenda
<Sapote> :D
<amach1> congrats from Tamil Team also
<effie_jayx> Thanks cc for the trust you put in the team
<sabdfl> ok, i've taken too long to get this sorted, my apologies to cjwatson and others who have been waiting patiently!
<jenda> Congrats effie_jayx and others ;)
<sabdfl> it's time to nominate new folks to the CC
<effie_jayx> this is not a goal... this is the continuation of the challenge
<tsmithe> well done!
<ShankarGanesh__> :)
<jatem> ;)
<sabdfl> we have a much bigger community, and I think it would be good to get representation from some new parts of that community
<sabdfl> so i will be nominating some folks from the forums, and other parts of the broad ubuntu project
<sabdfl> currently, there are 5 nominations, all of whom have said they are happy to stand for the post
<C3s4r> :D
<sabdfl>    y daniel holbach
<sabdfl>    y matthew east
<sabdfl>    y mike basinger
<sabdfl>    y corey burger
<sabdfl>    y jerome gotangco
<Seveas> how many people will be in the new CC? Who of the current CC will stay?
<sabdfl> cjwatson will be stepping down from the CC (but standing for the TB iirc)
<sabdfl> elmo, mako, and i will stay
<Hobbsee> no one from x/kubuntu there.  looks good though
<sabdfl> i don't yet know the xubuntu community well enough ( not sure it yet has the scale)
<jenda> Hobbsee: Why did I read that as "no one from x/kubuntu there.  looks good"
<mako> jenda: :)
<sabdfl> would like a kubuntu representative, but haven't yet met the person who is CC-ish from that group, mortly TB-ish folks still
<Hobbsee> jenda: er, those statements were supposed to be split :P
<gpocentek> the xubuntu community is not large enough to have members in the CC IMO
<jenda> How will the election work for this?
<mako> for the record, the cc is not supposed to be strictly representative
<sabdfl> well, a really good CC candidate would represent all of us
<sabdfl> not just a constituency
<mako> every member on the CC will be dealing with issues pertaining to the entire project
<sabdfl> mako: +1 :-)
<jsgotangco> gpocentek: it does not follow strictly though
<Hobbsee> sabdfl: you'd probably have to ask the kubuntu community who would fit that.
<mako> and so it's important that they be know and respected by folks in all parts
<sabdfl> Hobbsee: i've gone through quite a process to put this list together
<sabdfl> would really like 2 more names, and am open to suggestions today
<Hobbsee> sabdfl: of course, wasnt suggesting that you hadnt :)
<sabdfl> people should have made an impact outside of a particular group
<mako> Hobbsee: the idea would be that if there were additional names, it would be an election
<sabdfl> anyhow the suggestion is that we should vote and the top n-2 out of n should get a seat on the CC
<sabdfl> that way, there is some real competitive position
<sabdfl> and we have at least 2 candidates for the next round to start with :-)
<Seveas> wouldn't that make the CC rather large?
<sabdfl> well
<Seveas> ah, next round :)
<sabdfl> it would make it 6
<sabdfl> but we want to have some rotation
<sabdfl> i would like to cover more timezones
<Seveas> \o/
<sabdfl> and have more processes that involve just one or two cc members
<sabdfl> so we can respond to regional issues without a full meeting
<sabdfl> and have quorum at meetings in all timezones without having to ask mako or an aussie to be up at 4 am
<mako> sabdfl: 8 by my count with the current list
<sabdfl> mako: not if we take the top 3 of 5
<mako> ah, right
<mako> in any case, i'm all for a larger cc
<mako> it will allow us to be more active as a group
<sabdfl> we will do the same with the TB
<sabdfl> relatively few things require close-to-consensus
<sabdfl> binary drivers....
<sabdfl> tough decisions
<sabdfl> most things can be done with quorum
<mako> we're all stretched thin.. but with more people we can at least be broad and thin ::)
<sabdfl> which we should try to keep attainable in all timezones without too much difficulty
<Seveas> I'm trying to think of people who have been around long enough and made an impact
<Seveas> the current list is pretty good
<Seveas> for how long will they be on the council? 2 years?
<sabdfl> yes
<sabdfl> with the MC we nominated some for 1, some for 2, to get the rotation
<sabdfl> but here i think we want broader representation
<Seveas> MC?
<sabdfl> motu council
<Seveas> ah
<sabdfl> dholbach is nominated for both
<sabdfl> ok, let's go with this list
<mako> i'm glad to hear that there's no objections :)
<sabdfl> ok, i will verify that LP polls allow us to select the top m of n options
<mako> hard work and clean living pays off
<sabdfl> perhaps some condorcet variation has been implemented
<sabdfl> hopefully there are not too many bugs!
<Seveas> sabdfl, us devotee *evil grin*
<Seveas> s/us/use/
<mako> sabdfl: if it isn't, we should just go with approval voting
* mako has written his own election methods library :)
<sabdfl> mako: not sure how we select top "top 3 of 5" if we just have approval voting?
<jsgotangco> in ruby? heh
<sabdfl> those who get the most votes?
<Seveas> nocturn, if you're still here: you're up after this so please prepare your introduction (all other member candidates, also be prepared)
<mako> sabdfl: you count up the approvals
<jenda> sabdfl: most approvals
<sabdfl> ok
<mako> sabdfl: it's the easiest method to implement that usually selects the same as preferential systems
<sabdfl> right
<nocturn> Ok Seveas
<sabdfl> i think we can do that
<sabdfl> may need some behind the scenes data analysis
<sabdfl> ok, done
<sabdfl> thanks to those candidates for standing
<sabdfl> voting will run from monday, for two weeks, roughly, unless naybody has objections to that?
<MikeB-> sabdfl: thank you
<sabdfl> all ubuntu-members are eligible to vote
<jenda> mako: just for clarification, would that mean everyone can approve or disapprove of each of the 5 candidates?
* nixternal tried to vote
<jenda> sabdfl: and would there be a possibility to vote outside that period? eg. by email
<jenda> (because I can't)
<mako> jenda: i wouldn't say disapprove, but yes
<mako> jenda: that's the interface
<mako> but sine most people will probably approval candidates
<sabdfl> jenda: you can't?
<mako> a prefential system would probably be, er, preferred
<jenda> I'll be on the road for a month
<mako> jenda: find an internet cafe?
<MikeB-> sabdfl,: I can remain on the FC is I serve on the CC?
<jenda> mako: of course, I can try, but I'd greatly prefer if I could email my votes before hand :) But I don't want to disrupt the meeting with this.
<elmo> MikeB-: absolutely
<posingaspopular> jenda: good luck to you on your travels
<jenda> (thank you, I'll be meeting the indian loco team ;))
<sabdfl> MikeB-: certainly
<Seveas> any more outstanding issues with the CC votes?
<mako> MikeB-: i hope you choose to :)
<posingaspopular> India(n)?
<sabdfl> ok
<sabdfl> next?
<Seveas> member candidates!
<amach1> jenda: do not forget to meet us too.. we too are from india
<Seveas> nocturn, you're up
<nocturn> Hi all
<nocturn> I'm nocturn, candidate for Ubuntu membership.
<nocturn> I have been a moderator on Ubuntuforums for 1,5 years now if I remember correctly
<nocturn> So, on that basis, I would like to apply
<Seveas> MikeB- (or any other forums folks), can you vouch for nocturn?
<MikeB-> nocturn is a fantastic forums mod
<Vorian> I am here to cheer for nocturn.  He is a wonderful staff member on Ubuntu Forums, and is extremely helpful to all.
<jenda> yes, nocturn has been a very good mod :)
<MikeB-> +1 from me
<sabdfl> ok, +1 from me. i think any moderator in good standing for more than 3 months would qualify
<Seveas> hmm, last time I looked at the ubuntuforums-staff teampage it had much less members. Great improvement there
<sabdfl> nocturn: that said, do you have the relevant wiki page?
<nocturn> sabdfl: you mean about me?
<jenda> Seveas: there are yet even a few who aren't on the LP page yet.
<MikeB-> very helpful and level headed when helping people
<sabdfl> nocturn: yes, we usually expect new members to have a wiki page describing their work to date and plans in ubuntu
<nocturn> My wiki page is here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Nocturn
<sabdfl> that's a bit thin!
<mako> so usually i'd like to see a lot more in terms of wiki pages
<sabdfl> who has a good example?
<nixternal> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RichardJohnson :)
<MikeB-> seveas: I have been updating the ubuntuforums-team page
<mako> i'm happy to proceed in this particular case because we've explicitly said that we would give the benefit of the doubt to long-time forums moderators
<ogra> sabdfl, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DanielRobitaille
<nocturn> Thanks Mako
<nixternal> sabdfl: yours isn't a good example? ;)
<mako> RichardJohnson's is pretty good :)
<nixternal> yay :)
<jsgotangco> goodness
<carlos> mako: but isn't that duplicating most of the info in launchpad?
<mako> carlos: some of it, yes :)
<carlos> I mean... mine doesn't have all that information because most of it is already tracked there...
<mako> yes, that makes sense
<mako> although it's nice to highly particular things taht show up in launchpad that you are proud of
<elkbuntu> so long as the info is somewhere
<ogra> well nixternal os a doc guy ... they love to play with layouts, you know ;)
<carlos> mako: ok
<nixternal> thanks ogra, just set me out :)
<ogra> ;)
<ogra> nixternal, your page is great :)
<sabdfl> nocturn: can you see the sort of thing we're looking for?
<jenda> nixternal: how about making it into a userpage template, hmm?
<sabdfl> mikeb, could you ask other forums staff who look for explicit membership to follow those examples?
<nocturn> sabdfl: I see
<sabdfl> MikeB-: ^^
<ShankarGanesh> NIXTERNAL: your blog really rocks!!!
<MikeB-> sabdfl: sure
<sabdfl> in this case, happy to +1 give the longstanding work done by nocturnal, and this is the first case
<ogra> MikeB-, nice quote on planet btw :)
<sabdfl> but in future we'll ask for that web page to be something other people can read and gain some real insight into the person
<nocturn> sabdfl: I'll update it soon.  I followed an example of another mode
<MikeB-> orga: thanks
<nocturn> s/mode/mod
<sabdfl> ok
<sabdfl> elmo?
<elmo> +1
<mako> nocturn: awesome, thanks :)
<mako> nocturn: welcome!
<nocturn> Thanks guys!
<Vorian> yay nocturn !!!!
* PriceChild highfives nocturn 
<MikeB-> congrats
<mako> whose next?
<Seveas> \o/
<Seveas> amach1, you're up
<amach1> nocturn: congrats
<amach1> hi all
<amach1> I am Sri Ramadoss and is seeking for Ubuntu Membership.
<amach1> I am currently the contact person of Ubuntu Tamil LoCo Team.
<amach1> We are from Tamil Nadu, India. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/sriramadas is my wiki page giving a glimpse about my contributions.
<ShankarGanesh> I know amach1 and he's been my friend for just a month. He's introduced me to a lot of things about ubuntu localisation
<amach1> I have been managing Ubuntu Tamil Team for the past eight months.
<amach1> I have here with me Shankar Ganesh, who joined us recently and currently part of our student wing.
<ShankarGanesh> so, +1 for Ramadoss (amach1) from me
<ShankarGanesh> He's organised a good group with support from organisations here who've been with him supporting him financially
<elkbuntu> amach1, is active and enthusiastic with LoCo stuff, and reguarly contributes to discussions between LoCos
<ShankarGanesh> yeah, he does
<sabdfl> amach1: very good wiki page - thank you!
<sabdfl> gives me a clear idea what you are doing
<sabdfl> can you tell me - i'm ignorant - what's the relationship between Tamil Nadu and the Tamil's of Sri Lanka?
<amach1> sabdfl: thank u
<mako> Seveas, sabdfl, elmo: is someonbody approving these as we go?
<amach1> sabdfl: we work together in Translation
<Seveas> mako, I'll do that
<sabdfl> mako: i have the page up, just haven't approved any.. ok thanks seveas
<amach1> sabdfl: as we both share same common mother tongue
<amach1> sabdfl: Tamil is one of the official Language in India as well as Sri Lanka
<sabdfl> ok, and is there a loco team there?
<Seveas> nocturn, please join the ubuntumembers team on launchpad
<amach1> sabdfl: i hope there is a Sri Lankan Team
<Seveas> (other member candidates who have not done that yet: please do so as well)
<nocturn> Seveas: OK
<amach1> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SriLankanTeam
<elkbuntu> there is a sri lankan team, but i believe it's dormant at the moment
<sabdfl> ok, i'm happy with amach1 for membership on the back of his role in the tamil nadu loco team
<amach1> sabdfl: thank you
<sabdfl> i'd be thrilled to hear that the ubuntu sri lankan tamil / non-tamil folks had strong collaboration and cooperation in place
<nocturn> Seveas: done
<sabdfl> so let me know if there's movement on that front
<amach1> sabdfl: sure
<sabdfl> ok, great work. elmo? mako?
<elmo> +1
<mako> +1 from me as well
<Seveas> congratulations amach1!
<MikeB-> congrats
<mako> amach1: i was reading through your stuff.. lots of it :)
<Seveas> meatballhat (Dan Buch), you're up
<amach1> Seveas: Thank You everyone
<meatballhat> Hello! My name is Dan Buch and here's my profile: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DanBuch  Most of the work that I do can be seen here http://diy.devubuntu.com
<meatballhat> My primary focus is advocacy in every way possible, which is what led me to the Marketing Team.  I continually push for adoption of FOSS at my place of work, and I've fallen into the habit of steering every conversation possible into the subject of Ubuntu.
<meatballhat> In the long term, I would like to push for adoption of Ubuntu throughout the public sector, especially as my state has had a particularly spotty recent history with regard to fiscal responsibility.  With the help of my fellow LoCo Team members, I am confident that a significant Ubuntu presence in Ohio is not only possible but inevitable.
<meatballhat> To sum it up:  I would like to see Bug #1's bug head on a bug pike.<!--end canned speech -->
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 1 in ichthux "Microsoft has a majority market share" [Critical,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/1
* AstralJava applaudes
<jenda> Dan has been an amazing help in both creation and design/planning of diy.devubuntu.com . He is a very dedicated Ubuntero and Ubuntu would be half without him :)
<Vorian> Dan has been instrumental in the work that has been done to make the start up of the Ohio LoCo team such a success to this point.  With Dans help, we have become the largest LoCo team in the United States, with over 75 members and growing.
<Vorian> Dan's vision on spreading Ubuntu has inspired many on our team to become very active ubuntero's.
<Vorian> He has been very determined to help our LoCo team become an approved team.
<Vorian> Besides all that, Dan Buch is a perfect gentleman.
<jenda> hehe
<jacobmp92> Dan has helped out a ton in our LoCo team, subbing for meetings, controlling sub-teams, etc
<jenda> He hasn't bribed me, I dunno about vorian, though.
<jacobmp92> he has recruited a ton of members
* jenda rolls by as the tumbleweed watches
<tsmithe> haha
<jacobmp92> (i thought my connection died from the snow)
* meatballhat eeps quietly to self
<tsmithe> meatballhat's application was just too good. everyone's lost for words!
<Seveas> it's always like this after someone introduces himself: people are reading wikipages etc.
<Seveas> long silence means lots of good things to read, so is generally a good sign
<jsgotangco> nice pic too
<meatballhat> jsgotangco: much thanks :)
<Seveas> are there other ohio folks here to cheer?
<jsgotangco> although i admit this is the first time i saw a wedding pic in the wiki, nor to a distro one at that
<jsgotangco> :D
<nixternal> lol
<meatballhat> Seveas: many of our members are in school right now despite the snow  :)
<Seveas> heh
<jacobmp92> meatballhat: not here, im out from snow :)
<Vorian> Seveas, the ones who are already cheered :)
* nixternal is refreshing the universities website waiting for it to say "ClOSED"
<sabdfl> meatballhat: *great* wiki page!
<mako> meatballhat: yes, your work on the team seems really great
<meatballhat> sabdfl: thank you oh so much ... it's good to finally meet you in, er, person  :)
<meatballhat> mako: thank you :)
<nocturn> I have to leave now guys, I'll leave my client logging
<mako> nocturn: sounds gsood, thanks for coming
<nocturn> Thanks Mako
<sabdfl> meatballhat: tell me about diy marketing and the loco teams
<sabdfl> how can we coordinate that relationship
<sabdfl> so the loco teams receive a steady stream of ideas, materials, etc?
<meatballhat> we've been holding off to get the site in a better state of readiness, mostly
<sabdfl> hey ryan
<ubuntugeek> hello
<meatballhat> there are so many materials out there
<jenda> oi, ubuntugeek
<MikeB-> hey ubuntugeek
<SD-Plissken> Hello  ubuntugeek.
<ubuntugeek> hey
<meatballhat> most of the work we need to do is simply catologing and such
<sabdfl> ok
<sabdfl> do you think it would be possible to have a "marketing top of the week"?
<mako> sabdfl and ubuntugeek and i have been talking about the new cc candidates and people on the cc and member councils, he's got some good poitns we should raise after we're done processing new member candidates
<sabdfl> with some materials etc?
<sabdfl> which loco's could translate and use?
<jenda> (/me notes that a click on diy.devubuntu.com will show the four main categories of items the project will categorize...)
<sabdfl> i think over a year it would be good to take the locos through a cycle of building up media contacts, for example
<meatballhat> sabdfl: absolutely, yes ... we're working to make it easier for volunteers to jump in and contribute within the Branding and Trademark guidelines
<sabdfl> and then feed thema steady stream of news or event related information
<sabdfl> ok
<sabdfl> +1 from me for meatballhat on the back of amazing work with the diy marketing effort
<mako> +1 for me.. in total agreement
<sabdfl> meatballhat: have you chatted with jono bacon much?
<meatballhat> sabdfl: thank you!!  :D
<sabdfl> elmo?
<meatballhat> not much yet, no
<elmo> +1
<meatballhat> I'd like to talk to him a lot more, though :)
<Vorian> congrats meatballhat !!!!
<Seveas> woohoo
<jenda> Congratulations Dan :)
<Seveas> tsmithe, you're up
<tsmithe> Hi. I'm Toby Smithe, a student at the Judd School in Tonbridge. I've been using Ubuntu as my main system for just over one year now, and various other Linux distributions on and off since about 2001. During my period of consistent Ubuntu exposure, my involvement has increased exponentially. I started off helping out on the forums, reporting off, and am now packaging packaging, learning Python, and triaging those bugs that once upon a time
<tsmithe> I would have been filing.
<tsmithe> I have recently become very involved in the Ubuntu Studio project, and have been packaging various softwares for that, with alsa-firmware, alsa-tools, wired and enblend sitting on REVU; and having created a product in Launchpad, with the Cinelerra-CV upstream SVN being imported, so that we can get to work with fixing licence issues on the way to inclusion in Universe. I have packaged my own application to change the default sound card,  as
<meatballhat> Thank you to everyone!  :)
<tsmithe> oundconf-gtk, and this is now in Feisty Universe. I wrote it as a result of not being able to find an applet like it in XFCE, which I was using at the time.
<tsmithe> You may have noticed above a number of sound-related packages. I was in the right place at the right time to get involved with helping to maintain ALSA; crimsun and the Ubuntu Studio team wanted packaging alsa-firmware, and I wanted to learn how to do the same. I picked up the package, and crimsun walked me through it. I am now in the process of creating a kernel patch for ac97 regressions since Edgy, and have been triaging various ALSA bu
<tsmithe> gs. I would like my involvement with ALSA and UbuntuStudio to continue, and UbuntuStudio to be a smash hit (however high an expectation this may be).
<tsmithe> hmm
<tsmithe> that was more than it looked earlier :S
<sabdfl> meatballhat: bend his ear for a while about diy-marketing + loco's
<sabdfl> i think there's a lot of low-hanging fruit that just needs a well organised wiki page and a weekly mail
<sabdfl> tsmithe: wiki page?
<AstralJava> Vouching for tsmithe here, I'm also in the ubuntustudio team and he's shown a superb effort in Making It Happen(tm). I might even dare to say we'd be in trouble had he not been with us. :)
<tsmithe> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TobySmithe
<MikeB-> I have to go, and get my son ready for school (7:00 AM here).
<tsmithe> sabdfl, ^^ :)
<tsmithe> thanks AstralJava
<_MMA_> Im cheering for tsmithe. He has been a great help with the Ubuntu Studio project. Without him as a packager we would not have progressed as far as we have. He has been very instrumental in getting the project better connected with Launchpad and Bazaar as well.
<PriceChild> tsmithe's been very helpful drafting the "Forum Ambassadors" spec which we're hopefully presenting to the FC in a couple of hours. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ForumAmbassadors
<mako> MikeB-: thanks for coming, we should follow up afterwards
<tsmithe> _MMA_ and PriceChild, thanks a lot
<Admiral_Chicago> I've also seen tsmithe working on the Ubuntu Studio project, he is a solid member and I was glad to see him apply. His packaging has been very helpful
<MikeB-> mako: i had someone wanted me to ask you if you ever approved the member from last month?
<tsmithe> Admiral_Chicago, cheers :)
<Seveas> MikeB-, that happened earlier today
<jenda> Toby has been a good community member, from what I've seen.
<tsmithe> jenda, hehe :)
<Vorian> I here to cheer for tsmithe too, very helpful!
<mako> MikeB-: i did, yes
<tsmithe> thank you Vorian
<MikeB-> mako:)
<Seveas> sabdfl/elmo/mako: I have to go now, will do launchpad/wiki/summary duty later today. Just wanted to add my \o/ for tsmithe before I leave
<tsmithe> thanks Seveas :)
<Seveas> sabdfl/elmo/mako: please set the time and date for the next meeting at the end of this one. On the 27th, the TB has #ubuntu-meeting from 21:00 to 23:00, the rest of the day it's free
<sabdfl> thanks Seveas
<mako> Seveas: sounds good
* Seeker` adds in a cheer for tsmithe 
<tsmithe> hi Seeker` :)
<mako> Seveas: thanks again
<jsgotangco> ok 5 more
<mako> PriceChild, tsmithe: wow, that's great! thanks for helding out on that
<sabdfl> tsmithe: where are you based? in the UK?
<tsmithe> mako, i'll be very happen to see it happen
<tsmithe> sabdfl, yeeah
<mako> tsmithe: i'm impressed with the range of projects you've helped out on in the community
<tsmithe> mako, thanks :)
<tsmithe> i like to do my bit :)
<tsmithe> i get all this for free, kinda feel obliged to give back to it
<Vorian> nicely put tsmithe :)
<tsmithe> ;)
<sabdfl> +1 from me on the back of toby's excellent work in the forums and ubuntustudio
<sabdfl> just finishing reading some of the links on your wiki page
<tsmithe> thank you, sabdfl
<sabdfl> really superb work!
<sabdfl> impressed you got a response from becta
* tsmithe chuffed and goes red
<tsmithe> sabdfl, haha - it took some work, though
<sabdfl> keep up the pressure :-)
<tsmithe> i'll try
<mako> absolutey, +1 form me
<tsmithe> yay!
<elmo> +1
<tsmithe> danke, elmo
<sabdfl> welcome aboard!
<sabdfl> who's up next
<_MMA_> Nice tsmithe. ;)
<tsmithe> thanks ever so much, everyone :D
<mako> alright
<Vorian> congrats tsmithe  !!!! porc::inca
<mako> stgraber: you're up
<tsmithe> :dito::love:
<mako> alright, we can move on
<mako> tmarble: you're up
<tsmithe> oh - and i may have to leave soon, but i want to give a big cheer for Admiral_Chicago's application later
<tmarble> ok, thanks
<mako> maybe sooner rather than later :)
<tmarble> Hello all, I'm Tom Marble and I champion Ubuntu within Sun Microsystems ==> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TomMarble
<tmarble> I promote the choice of Ubuntu with Sun Servers with engineering and the field sales organization
<tmarble> I work with fabbione on the SPARC architecture team
<tmarble> And I provide technical guidance to implement our partnering strategy of making Sun's Free Software (and soon-to-be-Free-Software) available in Ubuntu
<tmarble> I have collaborated with doko on sun-java5 and sun-java6
<tmarble> At the moment I am working with our NetBeans (IDE) and GlassFish (application server) teams to make this software available for Feisty
<mako> fabbione i believe is back to cheer for tmarble, although he pasted some stuff to me earlier
<fabbione> yeah i am here
<fabbione> I fully support Tom Marble to be an Ubuntu memember. He did several non trivial things for the sparc port that are not immediatly noticeable if not because now we can just run on it without problems. He is extremely pro-active in testing sparc and feeding info back to get the stuff done as they should. His contribution has/is relevant. I can't personally speak for his Java packaging skills but his name didn't pass unnoticed in -changes.
<fabbione> He is definetely a +1 for our community.
<doko> we have to invent the MOTM for tmarble (uploading only to multiverse ;)
<mako> tmarble: i believe we met in MTV, no?
<dholbach> (I reviewed another package of his and he did very thorough work, was quick to reply back and easy to work with.)
<tmarble> mako, yes.. i really enjoyed meeting many people at UDS -- from Ubuntu and the community
<sabdfl> awesome wiki page tom
<tmarble> sabdfl, spasibo!
<mako> yes yes, loads of good stuff
<doko> supporting tmarble, we need more people involved with java in the distro. +1
<sabdfl> i have worked with tmarble and been really impressed with how seriously he takes community issues, dynamics and processes
<sabdfl> the fact that he's here reflects that
<mako> tmarble: so is working on ubuntu stuff part of your job?
<mako> i assume yes
<tmarble> mako, this is a very interesting question -- the short answer is YES (stay tuned for the longer answer ;)
<mako> i am personally really happy to see people working on ubuntu as parrt of their job and not working at canonical.. i think that's a really important step for our community
<mako> i know it's happened in other places too, but it's great to see it sort of end in membership
<mako> in the interest of moving forward, i'm happy to give my +1
<tmarble> mako, we see the partnership with Ubuntu as extraordinarily strategic.... it's mutually beneficial at many levels... obviously we benefit from -- as our CEO says -- hardware revenue from those users who want GNU/Linux and our eco-friendly server technology
<sabdfl> tmarble: are you already a MOTU, or is that your next port of call?
<elmo> +1 from me, very glad to see Tom becoming an Ubuntu member, I've enjoyed working with him on the java licensing stuff and seeing him at UDS
<tmarble> more importantly our company realizes the importance of Free Software to developer and user adoption of technology generally --> and this is championed by webink who has had an enormous impact on our direction
<tmarble> sabdfl, i am following the process to become MOTU (MOTM?) to the best of my ability, as indicated by dholbach  (currently not MOTU)
* mako nods to tmarble 
<sabdfl> ok. +1 from me for membership (and thanks for coming here explicitly)
<sabdfl> also, fwiw, +1 from me for MOTU membership, feel free to convey that to dholbach &co
<dholbach> tmarble: it'd be great to have you in the team :)
<tmarble> I have one mini package in REVU at the moment as a technical study (add-apt-key) (no advocators :(
<mako> carlos: you're up
<carlos> Hi, My name is Carlos Perell Marn and I would like to become an Ubuntu member.
<carlos> I'm a Launchpad developer working for Canonical Ltd. and my main task is to provide infrastructure to handle internationalisation in Ubuntu, including language packs exports.
<carlos> I'm also current Spanish translation team coordinator, but I'm in the process to move this role to someone else in the team as I don't have much time to translate and handle the tasks required as the coordinator.
<carlos> As part of my work I have a lot of interaction with Ubuntu translators and try to help them in the best way to improve its language support in Ubuntu.
<dholbach> tmarble: i'll take another look at it
<carlos> After more than 2 years and a half improving Ubuntu localisation, I think is a good time to get a bit more involved in Ubuntu process and that's why I would like to be accepted as an Ubuntu member.
<carlos> You can see my brief wiki page at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CarlosPerelloMarin and my Launchpad account at https://launchpad.net/~carlos
<tmarble> and I have one of our "real" packages : NetBeans in REVU -- which we are working aggressively on preparing for multiverse
<jsgotangco> whoa
<sabdfl> carlos! very happyto see you here :-)
* pitti cheers for carlos
<carlos> sabdfl: I thought it was time to do it ;-)
* tmarble thanks all!
<sabdfl> cheers tmarble
<mako> carlos: your wikipage is also a little thin ;)
<sabdfl> welcome aboard
<sabdfl> his lp account is pretty phat, though!
<carlos> mako: yeah, I noticed that after the first membership review...
<mako> yes, that's very very true... but you have the advantage of having all of us all be extremely familiar with you :)
<carlos> mako: but didn't have time in this hour to 'fix' that :-(
<sabdfl> carlos: what are the biggest community requests for rosetta these days?
<carlos> sabdfl: more translation/traslators review oriented tools
* mako nods
<carlos> we already added some improvements to the translation review process which seems is exactly what our translators wanted
<mako> carlos: i remember talking to you about membership like 2 years ago :)
<mako> carlos: i'm glad you've followed through and have appreciated your community contributions during the intervening period
<mako> this is sort of one of those "you're not a member already?" situations so i'm happy with a +1 from me
<carlos> mako: well, I guess it was more a problem of me being lazy to do this step than other thing...
<sabdfl> +1 from me on the back of carlos' long dedication to translation in ubuntu and gnome
<elmo> +1
<mako> alright then
<mako> ife, the former Kawashima Kiko, is a member of the Japanese imperial family. She is the first-born granddaughter of Emperor Akihito and Empress Michiko and is currently a third-year student at Gakushuin Girls' Junior High School in Tokyo.
<mako> sorry
<mako> bad paste
<mako> lionel:
<mako> that was wikipedia :)
<lionel> Hi all
<carlos> mako: ;-)
<mako> someone else name mako who is princess in japan
<carlos> thank you guys!
<lionel> I'm Lionel Porcheron from France. I work as a system administrator in a small compagny. I am a Ubuntu user since Hoary, and I sarted to contribute during the Dapper cycle: I started packaging, bug triaging, and writing some documentation. I am also one of the fren
<lionel> ch translator of the Ubuntu Weekly News.
<lionel> Today, I am a contributor to Universe: I do merge/sync, bug fixes and packaging. I also plan to enhance server guide before Feisty string freeze (based on my Wiki contributions).
<lionel> You can find the details of my contributions on my wiki page.
<lionel> LP: https://launchpad.net/~lionel.porcheron
<sabdfl> i will personally congratulate kiko on his sex change and newfound nobility
<lionel> Wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LionelPorcheron
<jsgotangco> lol
<mako> sabdfl: wait, when was kiko not a princess?
<sabdfl> well. now you mention it. that hair, with a tiara, would work
* nixternal faints
<elkbuntu> mako, you've always been a princess in our eyes :)
* elkbuntu ducks
<mako> i think this meeting is officially too long :)
<sabdfl> lionel: how is the MOTU process working for you? any suggestions or comments?
<nixternal> 1 more after lionel then it is miller time
<mako> sorry lionel :)
<lionel> mako: no pb :)
<sabdfl> mako: i have a call in 30 so let's shoot to be done by then
<lionel> sabdfl: I am planning to apply for MOTU in few week/months
* zakame cheers
<sabdfl> lionel: but are you finding that community helpful, and responsive?
<lionel> sabdfl: yes, really !
<sabdfl> ok
<sabdfl> i'm happy to +1 on the basis of packaging and documentation contributions, and also UWN translation
<lionel> My current sponsors (crimsun, geser, Adri200) are reallyhelpfull and applied patch in a few ours
<sabdfl> UWN combined with a DIY marketing tip of the week would be amazing...
<sabdfl> cool!
<mako> yes, i'm happy with +1 as well
<elmo> +1
<sabdfl> welcomeaboard, lionel!
<lionel> tanks a lot !
<sabdfl> drum roll...
<nixternal> sabdfl, mako, elmo, Seveas: I sent an email in about Admiral_Chicago, but since it didn't kick off at 06:00 Chicago Standard Time, I am here :)
<Admiral_Chicago> sabdfl: you drum rolling for me?
<nixternal> you wouldn't be so lucky :)
* Jucato_ is a member of the Admiral_Chicago fan club, of which nixternal is the president :) 
<Admiral_Chicago> a man can wish nixternal. Should I begin?
<nixternal> wait for the Dr. Mako to call you in :)
<elkbuntu> nixternal, isnt that princess mako?
<zakame> hahaha
* nixternal leaves that one alone!
<mako> hold up
<mako> Admiral_Chicago: you're up
<Admiral_Chicago> I am Freddy Martinez, I work heavily in the Mozilla Team and have been working with structuring our team since the very beginning. A major component of my work with the team is new team member education, wiki structure, and general bug work.
<Admiral_Chicago> I work very closely with the Chicago LoCo, event planning, keeping the team running smoothly, and advocacy. I also have worked on things like UWN and spend as much time as possible helping users in #kubuntu and other channels on IRC.
<Admiral_Chicago> In the future I would like to learn packaging, documentation, and work on migration tools to make new users more comfortable with Ubuntu. More information can be found https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FreddyMartinez and https://launchpad.net/~freddymartinez9.
<mako> nixternal: i got the email, IIRC
<AlexLatchford> I would like to cheer Admiral_Chicago, he has been a vital part of the ongoing effort into the Mozilla Team, helping to squash loads of bugs and contributing greatly to the wiki efforts :)
<sabdfl> Admiral_Chicago: by the mozilla team, you mean the same one that asac is involved with?
<dfarning_> Freddy has been a great triager for the mozillateam.  While I was gone for the last several weeks,  Freddy stood up and helped get things rolling.  I felt very comfortable asking him to take responsibility for establishing our triaging and new member development processes.
<Admiral_Chicago> sabdfl: exactly.
<asac> I can confirm that his contributions Mozilla bug triage are substantial and of great value so far.
<sabdfl> ok
<nixternal> rock on! Anywho, Admiral_Chicago is w/o a doubt an asset as the email said. He has helped me out tremendously with Ubuntu Chicago, he is a Bug Addict, and he is from Chicago :)
<sabdfl> i've been watching that team, and it's EXACTLY what I would like to see for each and every upstream!
<Admiral_Chicago> sabdfl: the same one you mailed several weeks ago
<sabdfl> very well done to them
<sabdfl> they have done a super job of figuring out how to coordinate well between the distro and upstream
<Admiral_Chicago> the team is a ton of work, i'm trying to structure the team as best as possible
* Admiral_Chicago is listening to a jono talk about team work ATM
<sabdfl> i would like this for kernel, for X, for OO.o, for Gnome, KDE, XFCE, apache, samba....
* jsgotangco hides
<nixternal> Isn't KDE the Kubuntu team?
<mako> nixternal: well i don't know about that bug stuff but if he's from chicago... ;)
<nixternal> hehe
<amach1> congrats to every new member...
<nixternal> he will be Ubuntu Chicago Co-Leader hopefully soon
<amach1> am leaving for time being
<amach1> thank u all
<Admiral_Chicago> when you leave town.
<nixternal> when I leave, you become #1 then :)
<nixternal> You are my Dick Cheney, just don't shoot me
<Vorian> lol
* jsgotangco groans
<nixternal> haha
<mako> anyway there is loads of great stuff here
<mako> and a very nice wikipage
<elmo> +1
<Admiral_Chicago> took it from richard
<nixternal> mako: he stole it from me :)
<nixternal> haha
<mako> +1 from me as well
<nixternal> drum roll....
* Jucato_ waits...
* Admiral_Chicago waits
<mako> sabdfl: you're up
<elkbuntu> nixternal, now look what you've done. i bet he's holding out just to irk you.
<nixternal> elkbuntu: I had my Congrats already typed out waiting :)
<Admiral_Chicago> nixternal: listen to melissa
<nixternal> Admiral_Chicago: I have to, she's my loco boss
<dfarning_> One of the funny things about Freddy is how hard he works.  When he starts griping it is time to automate the process;)
<nixternal> lol
<nixternal> dfarning_: I just /ignore
<nixternal> hehe
<mako> ok..
<nixternal> hehe
<mako> is sabdfl has not already turned into a pumpkin...
<nixternal> looks like it
<mako> there was one final issue
<Admiral_Chicago> which one is that?
<mako> about the CC membmership stuff, ryan troy (ubuntugeek) and a number of other forums council members expressed some concern about having folks on both the CC and the FC
<jsgotangco> and that is?
<nixternal> hehe
<sabdfl> no, i'm still here
<mako> in theory, this would also apply to other team councils
<sabdfl> pumkin time in 15
<jsgotangco> yes
<nixternal> yay sabdfl isn't a punkin
<sabdfl> +1 from me on the basis of great work with the mozilla team
<nixternal> YAY! Congrats Admiral_Chicago \o/ \o/
<Admiral_Chicago> w00t! thanks everyone.
<sabdfl> Admiral_Chicago: would love you to pick one of those other upstreams and try to lead the same magic there!
<asac> Admiral_Chicago: welcome!
<Vorian> congrats Admiral_Chicago :)
<sabdfl> well done
<nixternal> thanks sabdfl, mako, and elmo! I needed that :)
<Jucato_> congratulations Admiral_Chicago!! though I barely said anything :)
<elkbuntu> congrats freddy :)
<AlexLatchford> Congrats Freddy
<mako> i hope it's ok if i post this stuff
<nixternal> bbiaf
<mako> matthew from the forums council says:
<mako> 09:30 <ubuntugeek> First off: congratulations, Mike! What an honor to be nominated.
<mako> 09:30 <ubuntugeek> Second: I would tend to agree with Ryan. There would certainly appear to
<mako> 09:30 <ubuntugeek> be a bit of a conflict of interest. I totally trust Mike, but it
<mako> 09:30 <ubuntugeek> wouldn't project the best appearance and could give rise to some
<Admiral_Chicago> sabdfl: we are working on upstream development, i've spoken to dfarning_ about our contact and getting them more integrated
<mako> 09:30 <ubuntugeek> criticism.
<mako> ryan and jdong have said something similar
<mako> and even mikeb expressed some hesitation
<sabdfl> i saw ubuntugeek here a while earlier, is he still around?
<mako> sabdfl: he'll be back in a few, but i don't think we'll overlap
<sabdfl> i personally think there's value in some overlap
<mako> i just sort of wnated to get general reactions from the meeting and then finish it up over email
<mako> sabdfl: oh, i agree
<sabdfl> hence nominating dholbach to both motu council and cc
<sabdfl> and mikeb for both cc and fc
<sabdfl> there is certainly potential for conflicts of interest
<mako> but i think that there's a concern that being your own conflict resolution body and oversight body defeats part of the purpose
<sabdfl> if the cc for example is unhappy with the motu council, then dholbach will need to do a very diplomatic job :-)
<sabdfl> true
<jsgotangco> my opinion is that most would see the potential for conflict rather than the value of overlap
<sabdfl> at the same time, it makes for less of an "us vs them" story
<mako> sure, i think that given the types of candidates, it's primarily a theoretical conflict of interest
<mako> sabdfl: right
<elkbuntu> in such a situation would said individual not step aside for the particular decision?
<sabdfl> they could recuse themselves, yes
<mako> i think that there's a very good chance that this point, mikeb would choose not be on both
<jsgotangco> elkbuntu: thats his choice though
<mako> since a majority of his council has expressed some reservations
<elkbuntu> jsgotangco, of course. bad wording.
<mako> but i won't try to speak for him
<sabdfl> i feel that's just deepening a potential divide, and i would like to bridge it as much as possible
<sabdfl> i'm sure many forums *users* would like to have a forums person on the CC
<mako> sabdfl: oh sure
<sabdfl> and more and more of them are actually members, so could vote accordingly
<mako> sabdfl: i'm not suggesting that we not nominate mikeb
<mako> sabdfl: i'm suggesting that he might choose one or other if presented with both
<mako> and that in the interest of managing percieved conflicts of interest, that's probably a pretty reasonable thing to do
<mako> now, if mikeb would continue going to FC meetings as a CC member, that would be great :)
<mako> he's already doing the inverse
<mako> but part of the team council policy stuff encourages/requires that the councils have reps at the cc meetings, so i think we're probably reasonably covered
<mako> sabdfl: in any case, the fc itself is the one expressing a little concern, so i think that in terms of dividing/bringing-together, it makes sense
<mako> i think that in the curren vision of the CC as largely working above the FC and delegating most work to them, the role is mostly oversight and firefighting.. and in those contexts, it makes sense to not have it be the same people
<dinda> and having different people means greater overall involvement
<dinda> more diverse
<mako> that's the idea
<mako> it has the benefit of makingn it less cabalish :)
<sabdfl> well, i'm not convinced, but i'm happy to try it
<elkbuntu> that context applies to just about any project in the community, really.
<mako> it can still be cabalish
<sabdfl> i think it would be better for the person to recuse themselves from the other group in the case of a conflict of interest
<sabdfl> so, in this case, from the FC
<sabdfl> since sitting on the CC has a broader impact than the FC
<sabdfl> how about that as a proposal, not in general, but for this case?
<dinda> mako: I thought you talked about the overlap issue at UDS?
<mako> dinda: i don't recall ever thinking about it this hard
<sabdfl> that mike, if he's elected to the CC, would recuse himself from the FC when he felt that appropriate?
<mako> dinda: we talked alot about how to handle precieved conflicts of interest
<dinda> mako: for some reason I recall you drawing a diagram on the board
<sabdfl> i'd rather deal with a conflict of interest when it arises, than lose mikeb from either body "just in case"
<mako> sabdfl: right, but if he's going to recuse himself from anything he migth have to vote on as part of the cc, it's going to make him ineffective
<elkbuntu> the fact that mike himself had reservations makes me confident he would identify appropriate situations anyway
<mako> sabdfl: someone who brings up an issue to the fc, and has a result they are not happy with is not going to be happy bringing it up before the same person the next week
<tsmithe> am i too late to say well done to Admiral_Chicago? /me hopes not... well done Admiral_Chicago!
<mako> elkbuntu: i also trust mike
<sabdfl> well, in the case of judicial systems, a superior court would certainly consider the opinion of the original court
<sabdfl> though they might not go with it
<dinda> and it's not the same judges
<mako> sabdfl: right, but you're not allowed to sit on both courts
<sabdfl> true
<mako> sabdfl: and if you were involved in the case before, you have to recuse yourself
<sabdfl> ok
<sabdfl> well, then i would be happy with that as a guideline
<sabdfl> that mike would recuse himself from issues that he's already discussed as part of the FC
<mako> sabdfl: in fact, people interviewing to become high judges don't answer many questions based on the fact that they may have a case on them oin the future and don't want to color their "objectivity"
<sabdfl> that way we still get the benefit of his presence for other issues
<sabdfl> mako: i thought it was just because they didn't want to demonstrate their prejudices before confirmation ;-)
<mako> sabdfl: that's the real reason, not the accepted justification :)
<sabdfl> if the rest of the CC prefers for MikeB not to stand for the CC, then i won't nominate him
<sabdfl> personally, i think he's a great candidate, and would like him to be in the list because forums are important
<mako> sabdfl: i agree
<sabdfl> i think it's mistaken to *reduce* the ability of the best Forums community leaders to stand for the CC
<sabdfl> and i'm confident we can deal with any conflicts that arise if and when they do
<mako> i see a couple choices
<mako> one if that we adopt a policy like the one your suggesting
<mako> which with a larger council might be possible
<mako> and the second is that we continue to nominate people but give them a choice of where they want to be
<mako> i honestly don't know mike thinks he's most useful
<mako> but i'd love it if he continues to come both meetings regardless of what happens
<mako> we don't need to decide something right here.. i'm interested to hear what the folks on the FC who have expressed concern with this think about the first proposal
<mako> i'll email this now before i run off to my lab
<sabdfl> ok
<forumsmatthew> I am on the FC, may I give a quick bit of input?
<sabdfl> go for it
<mako> forumsmatthew: yes yes :)
<mako> please
<forumsmatthew> I like the idea of Mike serving on both
<mako> forumsmatthew: didn't realize you were here :)
<forumsmatthew> if he recuses himself from
<forumsmatthew> any issues related to forums governance
<forumsmatthew> etc
<mako> forumsmatthew: i would want to make it policy
<mako> nobody is allowed to weigh in on the same issue twice
<mako> forumsmatthew: but your statement is actually a bit broader
<mako> forumsmatthew: since it would also cover things like approving fc members
<mako> which we would definitely need him to recuse himself from
<mako> but there's still a potential for people being uncomfortable i think
<forumsmatthew> I totally agree
<forumsmatthew> I said so to Mike
<mako> when it comes to a body that he sits on approving his position in another body
<forumsmatthew> it's a difficult question
<mako> forumsmatthew: think about it :)
<mako> forumsmatthew: not just you, but the whole fc, and mike
<mako> it's better to deal with this issue before something comes up :)
<bapoumba> hi !
<elkbuntu> mako, maybe set a meeting for a week's time, to let people think it over?
<sabdfl> forumsmatthew: the FC charter says that the CC will seriously consider the views of the FC and other Forums staff and members in making FC nominations
<sabdfl> what beter way to do so than to have a voice on the CC itself?
<forumsmatthew> sabdfl, good point
<sabdfl> statistically, a person is likely to be in the majority on the FC
<sabdfl> if that same person is on the CC, then that majority gets even more weight
<sabdfl> i can imagine that there are some hard issues where recusing would be wise
<sabdfl> but i'm not convinced it should be a fixed policy
<sabdfl> other than that it should be mentioned as a graceful way to deal with significant tension and cases where others on either side feel there's a conflict
<sabdfl> i guess i'm willing to be trusting because i have some say in the appointments on both bodies and it would be a personal failure to end up creating a bad situation
<sabdfl> ok
<sabdfl> let's leave it to settle
<sabdfl> hi ryan
<ubuntugeek> hello
<sabdfl> you got here just in time
<sabdfl> mako raised the discussion you have been having with him
<sabdfl> several folks weighed in
<sabdfl> we'd like to hear your thoughts
<ubuntugeek> Great
<ubuntugeek> Well, as I stated to Mako and Mike I feel there is a strong conflict of interested in serving on both councils.
<ubuntugeek> If the FC did not report directly to the CC then there wouldn't be an issue. But even if there is an objective stance taken on situations that could arise there is alot of room for error there.
<mako> ubuntugeek: yes, there are two proposals, i'm summarizing them in an email
<mako> ubuntugeek: one would have people choose one council to serve on
<mako> an exception could probably made for the TB since it's non-overlapping and not under the CC
<ubuntugeek> I think even having a CC memeber as part of staff could possibly slew any constructive results if there was an issue that was taken to the CC
<mako> the second would establish that nobody gets to vote any issue that relates to their team council
<mako> or that team's perview
<ubuntugeek> Well, I really think the first choice is the only and best choice.
<mako> they could of course argue for a position, but wouldn't get to make a decision
<jsgotangco> brb
<ubuntugeek> What you are asking could really open a huge can of "worms" so to speak.
<mako> it's certainly the more conservative choice in this regard
<mako> ubuntugeek: well, i don't think that CC forums staff member should be banned any more than FC staff members should be
<ubuntugeek> banned?
<mako> barred
<mako> kept from happening
<mako> not banned in the forums or irc sense :)
<mako> heh
<mako> but
<ubuntugeek> Right, but then basically that person is a gratified FC member.
<mako> i do think that we'd expect such a person to recuse themselves from issues where their involvement would imply a conflict of interest
<ubuntugeek> It can be perceived as a "go" around to slide step the FC authority, and frankly makes us look like wish washes.
<mako> ubuntugeek: i don't understand what you mean
<mako> what is?
<ubuntugeek> if a CC member was a forum staff member
<mako> we're talkinga bout expanding the CC to at least six people
<mako> one cc member isn't particularly important alone
<forumsmatthew> u-g, I actually think if he were to recuse himself from any topic relating to forums governance it could be a good thing to have someone directly involved in forums leadership on the council
<mako> especialy if they recuse themselves from issues related to the forums
<ubuntugeek> forumsmatthew: sure, however will that happen? can we be guaranteed? No.
<sabdfl> ubuntugeek: what if i were to nominate you for a future CC?
<forumsmatthew> there would be some insights gained by the CC that are not necessarily available currently
<mako> ubuntugeek: everyone on the cc should be very involved in some area of ubuntu, ideally in a leadership role
<sabdfl> would you stand down from the FC?
<mako> ubuntugeek: mdke is very involved in the doc team and the italian team and other things
<ubuntugeek> sabdfl: I wouldnt accept the position. My focal point is the forums.
<sabdfl> it seems wrongto me that the FC folks who have a broader interest and impact in ubuntu should have to stop working in the FC in order to contribute to the CC
<mako> ubuntugeek: but we're not asking him to quit those things to take on a cc position, in fact, that'w hy we're doing it!
<sabdfl> having overlap is a good way to get the FC's views represented
<ubuntugeek> I really have to disagree.. And this is why we never come to any complete and strong resolutions. You guys don't listen.
<mako> ubuntugeek: this is a reasonable conversation, there's no need to conclude that
<mako> ubuntugeek: nobody has decided anything
<ubuntugeek> I'm just stating a fact Mako. I am not being negative.
<mako> we're having a conversation with you now because we care about your opinion on this, it's not fair to say that we don't listen
<ubuntugeek> Thats fine move along then.
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 13 Feb 16:00 UTC: Forum Council | 13 Feb 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 14 Feb 10:00 UTC: MOTU | 14 Feb 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 15 Feb 05:00 UTC: IRC Operators | 15 Feb 21:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team
<ubuntugeek> The point I am trying to make is simple, there is a conflict of interested in serving on both councils.
<sabdfl> ubuntugeek: can you give us an example of that?
<sabdfl> as i was saying earlier, statistically, any member of the CC is likely to be in the majority on any issue
<mako> sabdfl: the one i'm concerned with is approving members of the FC
<sabdfl> so the odds are that the majority view also gets expressed by a CC member, if that person is also on the CC
<sabdfl> mako: because that would give one member of the FC a "stronger" say in FC nominations than the others?
<ubuntugeek> You guys win.. I wont agrue this point anymore.
<mako> sabdfl: taht's right
<mako> ubuntugeek: i'm arguing your position here man
<mako> sabdfl: even if that person does not vote (and they shouldn't), one would conclude that they would be more likely to be reapproved for the FC than other FC members
<mako> sabdfl: whether or not that's true, its very hard to avoid that appearance
<sabdfl> right
<mako> sabdfl: it seems difficult to imagine that a cc/fc member would not be approved by the fc for the cc
<mako> we could argue that's because the cc is approved by all members and so is, as a result, going to always be trustworthy
<sabdfl> you mean, for the fc by the cc :-)
<mako> yes, that's what i mean
<mako> i think that recusing from forums business handles almost every other situation pretty well
<sabdfl> i would say that the confirmaiton process of being on the CC is such that a person who makes it is someone who would also do well on any other specific community body
<mako> that's true
<Admiral_Chicago> mako: i have a signed CoC with a GPG key, do you need that mailed to you for membership
<mako> MikeB-: hola
<mako> Admiral_Chicago: launchpad, launchpad
<MikeB-> hola
<sabdfl> ubuntugeek: this is not about winning or losing, or giving up, it's about a structure that works and lets the best people have the biggest impact everywhere
<dennda> Admiral_Chicago, just upload it to launchpad
<ubuntugeek> I really think its a mistake and is not a well thought out process.
<MikeB-> long meeting:)
<Admiral_Chicago> okay. it's up there now.
<mako> MikeB-: the meeting is basically over, we're just discussion dual memership now
<sabdfl> MikeB-: i've deferred another conversation to keep up with this one
<mako> ubuntugeek: that'w why we're talking about it now
<ubuntugeek> mako: with all do respect you guys are talking and telling how its going to work.
<dennda> Admiral_Chicago, please read this for further information. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NewMemberHowto (a meeting is going on right now, right here :) )
<sabdfl> i am happy with mako's suggestion that people on the CC should recuse themselves from decisions where there is a feeling of a conflict of interest w.r.t. another community position
<mako> ubuntugeek: we don't know how it's going to work, so i find that unlikely
<ubuntugeek> I see.
<mako> ubuntugeek: i proposed two options, that was one
<mako> the other was that folks should choose between one or the other
<mako> ubuntugeek: and i've been laying out the argument for that over the last 10 minutes
<mako> ubuntugeek: i'm trying to argue for the situation you've suggested. go easy on me :)
<ubuntugeek> mako: Ok
<ubuntugeek> On your second suggestion, in theory it could work. But I think its a hard line for anyone to walk to be objective in that sense.
<MikeB-> can someone send me the two suggestion, I missed that part
<mako> MikeB-: yes, i'll mail it now
<ubuntugeek> Suggestion One: choose between the teams.
<MikeB-> thanks
<jenda> ubuntugeek: in politics, both schemes work just as well... or not ;)
<ubuntugeek> jenda: I am really not interested in politics. I am interested in protecting the forums.
<MikeB-> wow, it has been hours since I caused this much trouble:)
<Seeker`> If you make someone choose between the teams, one of the teams may be "losing out" on a valuable member of their team
<mako> sorry had a phone call
<ubuntugeek> seeker: thats life.
<ubuntugeek> seeker: it isnt all gravy.
<sabdfl> ubuntugeek: we've identified the case where new FC members are appointed. what other cases do you think might be a case where the forums need protection?
<Seeker`> ubuntugeek: But that may damage the team that you want to protect
<mako> MikeB-: i just sent the proposals to the fc list
<mako> MikeB-: and the cc list
<ubuntugeek> sabdfl: honestly, our issues are dynamic I cannot give a exact case. I do however feel strong that if a person was on the FC and the CC and a issue from the forums was presented to the CC objective or not there is a room for serious errors and judgements if a person was serving on both teams.
<mako> ubuntugeek: ok, i totally agree that nobody should be aloud to vote twice on any issue
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: Forum Council | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 13 Feb 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 14 Feb 10:00 UTC: MOTU | 14 Feb 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 15 Feb 05:00 UTC: IRC Operators | 15 Feb 21:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team
<mako> ubuntugeek: i think that folks in the forums will be worried about appealing anything to what appears to be an overlapping board
<forumsmatthew> mako: you're saying if they have given input as an FC member then they don't do so as a CC member, right?
<sabdfl> conversely, they have already expressed concern about appealing to a board which "doesn't understand their issues"
<ubuntugeek> mako: agreed, but it goes beyond just a vote. For example, would the CC consult said FC member for information about the subject? Could that FC be objective enough to give a whole hearted opinion to the CC on the situation?
<mako> forumsmatthew: taht's right
<jenda> forumsmatthew: that sounds very reasonable to me.
<mako> ubuntugeek: well the CC should be consulting the whole FC on any issue that involves the forums
<mako> ubuntugeek: that was part of the deal :)
<ubuntugeek> mako: sure, i am not saying it isnt :)
<mako> ubuntugeek: i think for internal forums issues that pass the cc, the fc/cc member could reperesent the issue, or otheres from the fc could
<mako> but the fc member wouldn't vote as part of the cc
<mako> on that issue
<sabdfl> that would be fine
<sabdfl> by me
<mako> ubuntugeek: i'm just trying to feel you out on this
<sabdfl> i think that as soon as this happens the FC will say "hey, we want our guy to vote"
<ubuntugeek> mako: sure its hard to explain over irc
<mako> the only potential problem i see
<MikeB-> agree, that is how business and other board do it
<sabdfl> but i'm happy to have a guideline that someone on the FC (or MC) recuses themselves from decisions over that body in their CC capacity
<mako> actually, the thing i was thinking about wasn't really a problem
<mako> ubuntugeek: we could make it a rule
<mako> the leadership coc says to delegate decisions to others where there is a percieved conflict
<sabdfl> right
<mako> if we think this will be very common, that person will become a less valuable cc member
<mako> or if we think the other issues i've brought up are problematic enough
<ubuntugeek> mako: thats alot of rules and whatifs floating around :)
<mako> those would be reasons to go the more conservative route of not allowing people on both teams
<mako> ubuntugeek: well, constructing the justification is
<mako> ubuntugeek: the rule as i'd write it is pretty simple
<ubuntugeek> mako: ok spell it out..
<mako> "Nobody who serves on the CC and a team council can vote, as part of the CC, on any issue in the domain of their team council."
<sabdfl> i would put it different;y
<mako> sabdfl: go  give a exact case. I do however feel strong that if a person was on the FC and the CC and a issue  from the forums was presented to the CC objective or not there is a room for serious errors and judgements if a person was serving on both teams.
<sabdfl> a member of the CC should recuse themselves from decisions by the CC which are a ruling on a prior decision of a subordinate team
<mako> hmm
<mako> i think that was another past problem
<sabdfl> if the issue is presented to the FC *first*, and then re-presented to the CC, then I can understand the potential for concern (though I'll say again that *I* would want more representation, not less, on the CC if I was in the shoes of the FC)
<MikeB-> The CC, FC, Tech Board  can vote out a member if needed, before their tearm is up on the team?
<mako> sabdfl: of which they are member
<mako> sabdfl: you forgot that part :)
<mako> sabdfl: the one you listed basically invalidates the need for CC i think
<mako> by charter, anny forums issue needs to be presented to the fc first :)
<ubuntugeek> sabdfl: this would be about if that person can be objective enough. More representation is good, but if that person cannot be objective then whats the point?
<bodhi_zazen_work> Hello Ubuntu :)
<ubuntugeek> I'm not saying that Mike couldn't be objective, I just saying "what if" and could apply to anyone.
<PriceChild> bodhi_zazen_work, previous meeting is still going on... we'll start soon ;)
<forumsmatthew> PriceChild, sweet!!!
<mako> ubuntugeek: that's right, i hope MikeB- realizes that nobody is doubting his own credulity here :)
<sabdfl> ubuntugeek: to me, the fact that someone is on the CC suggests that the whole community has faith in them
<forumsmatthew> sorry...wrong channel
<ubuntugeek> sabdfl: sure but thats not the point.
<sabdfl> it's certainly *a* point ;-)
<sabdfl> look, i don't want this to be a contentious issue
<sabdfl> i think MikeB- would be a superb CC member
<sabdfl> and would make good decisions that affect the whole community
<ubuntugeek> sabdfl: well not really, because even if the community has faith, it doesn't guarantee that person will be objective.
<sabdfl> and i am surprised that ubuntugeek is arguing against having someone with strong forums roots on the CC
<mako> ubuntugeek: right, that's undestood
<mako> ubuntugeek: i'm actually not worried that they won't be objective, but that people will feel that they might not be objective
<sabdfl> i think the reality is that nobody likes being overrules
<sabdfl> d
<ubuntugeek> sabdfl: no reason to turn this around on me. I am mearly pointing out a flaw in your process.
<forumsmatthew> Is objectivity always desirable? Don't we want people to represent their interests (assuming of course they ultimately have the community's best interests at heart)
<sabdfl> the hierarchical structure we have *inevitably* means that groups that have decisions delegated to them are at risk of having another group disagree in a binding way
<sabdfl> that creates tension
<sabdfl> regardless of who's on that other group
<mako> ubuntugeek: right, are you still uncomfortable with the position with the proviso that i listed?
<sabdfl> that's just the nature of things
<sabdfl> it seems to me that overlap at least has the benefit of ensuring that insight is there when needed
<sabdfl> if the CC were to overrule the FC on something, that will bite regardless, frankly
<ubuntugeek> sabdfl:  and thats still a huge problem to me.
<sabdfl> i think it more likely that the FC would be satisfied with decisions taken by a CC that has people who understand the subtleties of the forums world
<sabdfl> and the same is true of *any* community in the project
<mako> ubuntugeek: that's why we are working really hard to creates structures that prevent that from happening
<ubuntugeek> mako: so why is mark threatening it?
<sabdfl> in fact, i woul dbe concerned if any one large constituency had too much weight on the CC, regardless of the fact that we want all CC folks to represent the whole community's interests and not just one part of it
<mako> ubuntugeek: i didn't see it as a threat, just a point
<ubuntugeek> mako: from my point of view its a threat.
<sabdfl> ubuntugeek: that is the nature of oversight, it's pointless to discuss all the times we agree, the times that *count* are the times we *disagree*
<mako> ubuntugeek: well, sabdfl the benefit of the doubt or we'll never move forward
<mako> ubuntugeek: but it seems that having someone from the forums on the CC could only help the situation
<sabdfl> in a judicial system, the appeals that have real consequences are those that change the previous verdict
<mako> ubuntugeek: but threats or no threats aside.. in the interest of moving forward
<mako> ubuntugeek: would a committement like the one i suggested resolve your concerns?
<mako> ubuntugeek: by removing the person with a conflict from any decision where it would play a role
<sabdfl> this is a really interesting situation
<mako> ubuntugeek: and allowing forums input into other higher level sort of things (i.e., approval of changes to policy, the coc, etc)
<sabdfl> mako: would you suggest that, in this case, the relevant CC member recuse themselves if *any* FC member raised such an objection?
<sabdfl> because then the CC member will always be asked to recuse themselves, by folks on either side of the FC, if there was *any* dissent in the FC decision
* sabdfl doesn't know enough jurisprudence
<mako> sabdfl: i would hope they would recuse themselves in situations where no fc member made an objection
<sabdfl> funny, i tend to go with the idea that more insight helps make a better decision
<mako> sabdfl: i'm as worried about non-fc members who brought issues before the fc and then appealed to the cc as anything else
<sabdfl> unless personal issues are at stake
<mako> i'm not suggesting a lack of insight
<mako> i think every fc member, including someone who could potentially be on the cc, should help inform every cc decision regarding the forums
<mako> i'm suggesting that they should cast a vote on an issue they've already cast a vote on
<mako> or have a known position on
<mako> it's a not fair hearing if you know how the person feels ahead of time
<mako> sorry, i'm suggesting that they should not cast a vote on an issue they've cast a vote on before
<mako> a hearing before a person who already has decided is a kangaroo court
<ubuntugeek> need to catch up. was afk
<mako> ubuntugeek: cool
<sabdfl> mako: are you happy with us narrowing the scope of the conflict down to specific decisions under review by a higher council?
<mako> sabdfl: sort of...
<ubuntugeek> mako: so you suggesting is to write a rule/policy that if a issue arises in said persons 'domain'  that person would only weigh opinions inside that 'domain' ?
<forumsmatthew> for those waiting for the Forums Council meeting: sorry, we're a bit delayed getting started
<mako> forumsmatthew: let us know if we need to shut up :)
<sabdfl> i'm not happy with the domain view, because it means that the person would be excluded from many of the discussions where they would be most valuable
<sabdfl> i can see the argument against "reviewing a decision they took before"
<mako> sabdfl: i said vote, not discuss
<mako> sabdfl: or i meant to
<MikeB-> sabdfl: Voice but no vote
<mako> sabdfl: ok ok, but there's another important case
<mako> sabdfl: which is appointing team council members
<sabdfl> we have very, very few discussions on the cc that are not open to every voice, in any event
<forumsmatthew> mako, I think we have a few more minutes. this is important and we are getting close to some sort of consensus I think
<mako> sabdfl: it's not in the domain of the tc, but it's very important
<sabdfl> ok, i agree there too
<mako> ubuntugeek: more or less, we're discussing the extend of what domain means right now
<ubuntugeek> mako: Ok
<sabdfl> agree it is contentious, though i would still fall in favour of participation there on the basis of valuable insight
<mako> ubuntugeek: sabdfl and i agree that applies to at least any decision made a by the fc, and the fc membership
<Rootvzla> hi mako
<sabdfl> but i can live with a guideline of recusing in cases of (a) reviewing an FC decision and (b) FC nominee confirmations
<mako> ubuntugeek: because by charter, forums stuff percolates up through the fc, that's probably effectively the same thing
<sabdfl> this should all be generalised so it is not specific to the FC
<mako> sabdfl: yes, that's right
<sabdfl> ok
<ubuntugeek> mako: thats fine
<sabdfl> ubuntugeek?
<mako> ubuntugeek: anything else you want to add to that
<ubuntugeek> nope
<mako> ok, if you think of something, or if others on the fc do, let us know
<mako> that's just the two areas for abuse and conflict of interest i see
<mako> but there mayb e more
<ubuntugeek> can this be summarized in an email for the record?
<sabdfl> we can amend the guidelines as those arise
<mako> yes, absolutely
<mako> to both of you
<mako> i'll send an email
<sabdfl> MikeB-: would you be happy to serve on both bodies, given these guidelines?
<MikeB-> yes
<sabdfl> ok
<sabdfl> mako: where would be the most appropriate place to enshrine this guideline?
<sabdfl> team councils?
<mako> sabdfl: part of the team council document i guess?
<sabdfl> what's the interaction with the TB (which I do see as reporting to the CC as much as to me)
<sabdfl> i would hate to lose the TB's views if things get escalated to the CC
<mako> the tb and the cc have non-overlapping magisteria, no?
<sabdfl> binary drivers are a classic case where both are required
<mako> both view ares required
<sabdfl> ultimately i think that's a cc decision, but we had tb on the call for certain
<mako> yes yes
<mako> if its ultimately the cc's decision, it's not an issue
<mako> the only real question is, if it's a joint vote, does someone get counted twice
<mako> but i don't think that's likely, or perhaps even possible
<sabdfl> right - we just did it as a joint discussion
<mako> yah
<sabdfl> ok, let's not worry about it - long meeting already
<mako> that's good enough for me
<mako> today at least :)
<sabdfl> i've thought of nominating TB folks to CC but it's too much time
<mako> ubuntugeek, MikeB-: thanks :)
<mako> sabdfl: i'm sure they appreciate it
<sabdfl> ok. mako will you draft something and send to CC / FC?
<MikeB-> thanks mako
<mako> yeah, something short
<sabdfl> cool
<mako> forumsmatthew: thanks for being patient
<mako> forumsmatthew: we'll  shut up now
<forumsmatthew> mako, you're welcome. This was important and affected us as well
<sabdfl> ok, thanks very much all
<sabdfl> elmo, cjwatson, happy?
<elmo> yes
<sabdfl> well, respond to the email :-)
<sabdfl> ok
<MikeB-> I hope some people will stick around for the FC meeting
<mako> hmm.. i'll stick around
<forumsmatthew> Shall we start with a roll call of sorts?
<sabdfl> i can't i'm afraid
<Vorian> ----------------->Begin Forum Council Meeting<-----------------
<sabdfl> enjoy guys
<ubuntugeek> mako sabdfl: thanks
<ubuntugeek> ok
<forumsmatthew> thanks, mako and sabdfl
<ubuntugeek> as the result of that
<ubuntugeek> we are running late
<ubuntugeek> heh
* mako takes the blame
<ubuntugeek> so lets shut downt he backyard
<Vorian> lol
<ubuntugeek> ban all the people we dislike
<PriceChild> lol
<superuser> lol
<forumsmatthew> that would be easier
<ubuntugeek> make the theme purple
<forumsmatthew> +1
<ubuntugeek> or even bright pink
* mako shakes ubuntugeek's hand
<forumsmatthew> neon?
<ubuntugeek> and then watch people cry
<MikeB-> purple and green, or hulk smash
<ubuntugeek>  /end evil
<ubuntugeek> ok now
<mako> very effective meeting style
<mako> the cc could learn something
<MikeB-> is Kiwi around ?
<SD-Plissken> ubuntugeeks sounds like ubuntuforums version of punk'ed
<forumsmatthew> I haven't seen him today
<PriceChild> mako, don't you know it :)
<ubuntugeek> mako: heh got have some fun
<PriceChild> Kiwi's not online ont he forums
<bapoumba> remove the submit button, when you're at it
* forumsmatthew reminds everyone of the agenda https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ForumCouncilAgenda
<forumsmatthew> jdong can't make it
<PriceChild> Maybe Vorian should lead this meeting?
<MikeB-> we have 3 out of 5, so we have voting concesus
<tsmithe> PriceChild, ping me when we get to f-a
<ubuntugeek> OK, so lets deal with "Review Forum guidelines"
<ubuntugeek> Basically I just wanted to bring this up and get a FC approval or denial to our current set of guidelines.
<forumsmatthew> I like the current set and would like to
<Vorian> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=341868
<forumsmatthew> suggest a couple of small changes
<forumsmatthew> namely: allowing languages other than English in the Loco forums
<forumsmatthew> and cleaning up the language
* SD-Plissken sits,and listens...
<ubuntugeek> forumsmatthew: sounds good to me. also the url vorian pointed out has some fixes
<forumsmatthew> I will volunteer to do the grammar/phrasing editing
<ubuntugeek> forumsmathew: ok, i can show you were to edit that.
<forumsmatthew> ubuntugeek, thanks
<ubuntugeek> for the changes in the mentioned thread and matthew cleaning it up +1
<MikeB-> I would also suggest maybe renaming the Forum Guideline the Forums Code of Conduit, so we match other simular policies in the community
<ubuntugeek> MikeB: good idea
<forumsmatthew> MikeB-, +1
<ubuntugeek> +1
<forumsmatthew> I'll spell it right, though. :)
<forumsmatthew> at least I'll try
<MikeB-> I be up since 4:30 Am for the CC meeting:)
<Vorian> lol
<forumsmatthew> I don't always spel gud when I sleep late
<ubuntugeek> ok so shall we move on to the next subject?
<forumsmatthew> +1
<MikeB-> +1 for clean up and name change
<Vorian> Forum Teams......
<Vorian> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=340827
<ubuntugeek> Ok,
<PriceChild> Could the applicants present shout up?
* jacobmp92 shouts
<mssever> I'm here
* bodhi_zazen_work :D
<Vorian> apjone?
<forumsmatthew> LordIllidan?
<Vorian> LordIllidan cant make it forumsmatthew
<forumsmatthew> Vorian, thank you
<ubuntugeek> I think apjone sent me a PM saying he just wanted to a member of the team not a leader
<ubuntugeek> lemme verify
<Vorian> ah
<Vorian> ubuntugeek, that would mean we have no candidate for the hardware team.
<forumsmatthew> Lord Illidan said he was interested in either
<ubuntugeek> i could be totally lost in my thoughts tho
<forumsmatthew> http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=1695147&postcount=3/
<forumsmatthew> Beginners or Hardward
<forumsmatthew> hardware
<forumsmatthew> serves me right for teasing mike
<Vorian> well both of the unanswered post candidates are here... we could start there.
<Vorian> forumsmatthew, you are correct :)
<MikeB-> bwhaha!
<Vorian> MikeB-, does that mean no :)
<forumsmatthew> Vorian, lets start there
<forumsmatthew> jacobmp92, state yor case:
<forumsmatthew> doh! your
<Vorian> http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=1700569&postcount=19/
<ubuntugeek> no clue i must be lost.. soo carry on
<Vorian> application link
<jacobmp92> Hi, I'm Jacob Peddicord, and to be honest, I wasn't planning on being here today, but school was closed due to school.
<mako> jacobmp92: where is home?
<Vorian> snow* right :P
<jacobmp92> mako: Ohio :)
<mako> jacobmp92: hopefully that snow storm hits me tonight :)
<jacobmp92> So, I wrote everything in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JacobPeddicord/UnansweredPostsIntro
* Vorian loves Ohio
<jacobmp92> but I'll restate some things:
* forumsmatthew goes to read
<jacobmp92> I come to the forums almost daily, and try to post as much as possible
<jacobmp92> I use the Unanswered Posts search link to find all of the empty topics, and attempt to answer them
<PriceChild> jacobmp92's post history seems to be Very helpful :)
<jacobmp92> My post rate is climbing, the reason it is at a low 1.4 is because I was not too active in the summer :-P
<forumsmatthew> PriceChild, agreed
<forumsmatthew> jacobmp92, have you ever led a project of any kind?
<forumsmatthew> school, etc.?
<jacobmp92> forumsmatthew: yes, last summer at OSC I was the lead developer for an application to crack /weak/ RSA keys
<forumsmatthew> how many people worked with you on that?
<PriceChild> OSC?
<jacobmp92> there were two others
<jacobmp92> PriceChild: OSC is a summer program at OSU
<PriceChild> OSU?
<jacobmp92> PriceChild: it stands for Ohio Supercomputer Center
<PriceChild> Ah ok wow cool :)
<jacobmp92> PriceChild: Ohio State University :)
<forumsmatthew> what is your vision for the Unanswered Posts team? What would you do do?
<jacobmp92> Again, I stated most of this on that wiki page, but I would plan on organizing members into their areas of expertise, and try to get them on a minimum of 1 unanswered post per day
<jacobmp92> and up that post rate weekly, so the next week would be two per day, and so on
<forumsmatthew> since members would be volunteers, would that be a hard an fast quota or more of a guideline?
<jacobmp92> Basically I'd  like to see the team take care of all of those posts, of people who thought no one wanted to help them on the forums
<jacobmp92> forumsmatthew: more of a guideline
<jacobmp92> because everyone has other plans :)
<forumsmatthew> thank you
<forumsmatthew> anyone else have a question for jacob?
<jacobmp92> :)
<ubuntugeek> nope
<MikeB-> nope, sounds good
<forumsmatthew> mssever, are you ready
<JayTee52> jacobmp92: if you want volunteers, I'd be glad to be on your team
<sid> @schedule New_York
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/New_York: Current meeting: Forum Council | 13 Feb 15:00: Technical Board | 14 Feb 05:00: MOTU | 14 Feb 15:00: Edubuntu | 15 Feb 00:00: IRC Operators | 15 Feb 16:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<jacobmp92> JayTee52: I think that will be handled after the meeteing
<mssever> I'm Scott Severance, in Texas
<Vorian> http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=1703030&postcount=20/
<mssever> My thinking is similar to jacombp92
<mssever> I would like to set up a sort of unanswered post triage system
<mssever> so My team would compile a list of subject area experts
<forumsmatthew> interesting
<forumsmatthew> tell us about any experiences you have leading teams or projects
<mssever> then the team would point out difficult posts to thise experts
<mssever> well, I'm currently the chair of my church board, and I've chaired several other committees in church and when I was in college
<forumsmatthew> any specific projects while on those committees/boards?
<forumsmatthew> just a "we did this"
<mssever> general administration, mostly...
<forumsmatthew> okay
<mssever> on one of the committees, we reoriganized our structure during my tenure
<forumsmatthew> can I ask each of you to answer this question: what is your leadership style? (top down, consensus, etc)
<mssever> I'm very democratic/consensus based
<jacobmp92> i'm very much the same, I ask for opinions and go based on a general consensus
<forumsmatthew> how do you feel about sharing responsibilities?
<forumsmatthew> both, again
<jacobmp92> perfectly fine with me :)
<mssever> As far as I'm concerned,m it's essential
<bodhi_zazen_work> Depends, generally consesus
<SD-Plissken> I don't buy it,and don't honestly feel you can have two leads,and them both be willing share the responsibilities.
<ubuntugeek> hmm
<forumsmatthew> brb...knock at the door
<tsmithe> don't answer it!
<forumsmatthew> I'm back
<adamant1988> Ok... sorry I missed so much.. what are we talking about?
<forumsmatthew> Here's what we're thinking
<ubuntugeek> perhaps looking at it like this.. if the team was a forum category (unanswered posts), and both were "administrators" of that category and team members were moderators. that would essential be what we are talking about
<forumsmatthew> it's an experiment
<forumsmatthew> do you think the two of you could communicate and work together as co-leaders
<ubuntugeek> ok i am going to +1 both for team leader positions on the unanswered team. I think this team has the potential to be large.
<Vorian> a very large team indeed :)
<jacobmp92> forumsmatthew: sure, I think having two leaders would spread the load, since I think many will be applying for the team
<ravtux> I am here
<mssever> perhaps, although I think things work better if the areas of responsibility are fairly well defined to avoid conflict
<MikeB-> +1
<MikeB-> for  both for team leader positions on the unanswered team
<mssever> but I'm willing to work with Jacob
<forumsmatthew> mssever, I was just about to ask that
<forumsmatthew> okay, then +1
<forumsmatthew> for the experiment
<forumsmatthew> Please make it work well, guys
<forumsmatthew> :)
<jacobmp92> experiments are fun
<Vorian> congrats jacobmp92 and mssever!
<MikeB-> congrats
<jacobmp92> thanks! :-)
<mssever> thanks
<forumsmatthew> I'm looking forward to seeing good things from this team
<forumsmatthew> congrats
<forumsmatthew> okay, next team is...
<SD-Plissken> I'm not. personally i think it's doomed to fail.
<ubuntugeek> sd: thats possible, lets give it a go and see how it plays out.
<ubuntugeek> Beginners Team
<ubuntugeek> Who's here to represent?
* bodhi_zazen_work I'm here :p
<Vorian> bodhi_zazen_work, your up
<bodhi_zazen_work> What can I tell you ?
<bodhi_zazen_work> I am active in my community and teach an adult ed course
<bodhi_zazen_work> on Linux
<forumsmatthew> great
<Vorian> cool
<ubuntugeek> Great, you are very active on the forums as well
<bodhi_zazen_work> I enjoy assisting people transitioning into Linux
<forumsmatthew> and very helpful
<bodhi_zazen_work> Thanks :)
<bodhi_zazen_work> I try to keep my foot out of my mouth ;)
<ravtux> bodhi.zazen has also had articles written up on him, how he converts donated computers to give to the needy
<forumsmatthew> I notice your application says you want a position on the team
<ubuntugeek> How do you in-vision the beginners team helping beginners? what improvements would you make to the beginners area?
<SD-Plissken> ubuntugeek I can vouch for bodhi_zazen.
<forumsmatthew> are you interested in leading it?
<bodhi_zazen_work> I would like to flesh out FAQ
<ravtux> +1 for bodhi.zazen
<bodhi_zazen_work> Have solutions peer-reviwed
<bodhi_zazen_work> and then move them into tehe wiki
<bodhi_zazen_work> the
<forumsmatthew> that would make some people happy...do you currently contribute to the wiki?
<bodhi_zazen_work> I have not ...
<bodhi_zazen_work> I haev need active with the UDSF
<bodhi_zazen_work> and Flucbuntu
<bodhi_zazen_work> Fluxbuntu
<frodon> yep bodhi_zazen_work is a great UDSF contributor
<forumsmatthew> okay
<frodon> he's the man
<ubuntugeek> heh
<ubuntugeek> I dont have any further questions..
<forumsmatthew> me either
<MikeB-> none here
<bodhi_zazen_work> Thanks Frodon :)
<forumsmatthew> +1
<ubuntugeek> +1
<PriceChild> What about Lord Illian though?
<PriceChild> I'm thinking its a bit unfair to make a decision without considering him because of timezone differences
<MikeB-> +1
<forumsmatthew> his timezone is very close to mine
<ubuntugeek> I thought someone said Lord wanted hardware?
<forumsmatthew> he also applied for the hardware team
<forumsmatthew> either one
<forumsmatthew> I think he would be an excellent leader for that
<Vorian> http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=1695147&postcount=3/
<ubuntugeek> matthew agreed
<ravtux> perhaps he would be great for hardware
<Vorian> first line
<Vorian> Beginner Area Team OR Hardware Area Team
<ubuntugeek> vorian: thanks..
<Vorian> :)
<ravtux> +1 lord illian for hardware
<MikeB-> there will be a ton of cross over between beginner and hardware anyways
<forumsmatthew> since neither he nor apjone are here I will make my decision for leading hardware based on what I know of each
<forumsmatthew> +1 for Lord Illidan
<ubuntugeek> I think lord would be great for the hardware position, he has been around the forums for awhile now
<MikeB-> +1 for Lord Illidan
<ubuntugeek> +1 lord
<forumsmatthew> congratulations in your absence, LI
<Vorian> congrats Lord Illidan!!
<MikeB-> lol
<Vorian> haha
<ubuntugeek> grats all
<ravtux> congrats bodhi.zazen and lord Illian
<MikeB-> congrats to all
<ravtux> yes congrats to all
<ubuntugeek> I'll send you guys all a PM today or tomorrow explaining how the team signup works on the forums
<bodhi_zazen_work> Thanks ravtux :p
<Vorian> congrats bodhi_zazen_work !
<highvoltage> congrats!
<ubuntugeek> and how to approve members etc.
<ravtux> bodhi_zazen_work: awesome!
<ubuntugeek> ok whats the next agenda item
<frodon> congrats bodhi_zazen_work ;)
<forumsmatthew> shall we open up the backyard
<ubuntugeek> ambassadors, anyone here to discuss this?
<forumsmatthew> lol
<PriceChild> Hey I am
<forumsmatthew> good call
<MikeB-> forumsmatthew: I have not had nearly enough beer for that discussion yet
<ravtux> ambassador here
<ravtux> potential
<ubuntugeek> saving the backyard for last :)
<forumsmatthew> okay
<PriceChild> "best till last?" ;)
<PriceChild> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ForumAmbassadors/
<PriceChild> That's the link to the spec as it stands now
<PriceChild> I wish I'd remembered the meeting and poked ubuntu_demon and maniacmusician about this FC meeting.
<MikeB-> is ubuntu-demon still busy, I know that was his baby
<forumsmatthew> I like the idea
<PriceChild> Yeah... I don't want to pretend I've contributed to this anywhere near as much as UD and maniac
<PriceChild> ping tsmithe
<forumsmatthew> will the name cause this problem: "The Forum Ambassadors will also *not* be responsible for resolving inter-user and user/staff grievances. We have a resolution centre for that (Also FC and CC in the future)."
<tsmithe> PriceChild, yeah - i'm a bit busy :S
<ubuntugeek> I really like the idea and I we can help facilitate their needs as best as we can
<PriceChild> Basically We're looking for feedback on the spec
<tsmithe> bzr is a pain
<tsmithe> PriceChild, could you tell me how it goes?
<PriceChild> tsmithe, will do
<ubuntugeek> forumsmatthew: agreed
<tsmithe> thanks, appreciate it
<PriceChild> A big point would be how much you would endorse us :)
<PriceChild> For example the setting up of the subforum etc.
<ubuntugeek> pricechild: not a problem
<forumsmatthew> I really like the idea...I'm not sure the name is as fitting as it could be. That's my only hesitation on the spec, etc.
<PriceChild> To be brutally honest... I'm completely and utterly fed up of drafting... and want to get the ball rolling in time for feisty+1
<PriceChild> Hehe the name can be changed :)
<ubuntugeek> forumsmatthew: yeah the name might be confusing.. but in regards to the forums supporting the ambassadors I dont see any issues with that
<forumsmatthew> Maybe "forums-developer ambassadors"
<forumsmatthew> ubuntugeek, agreed
<ubuntugeek> its about time honestly that something like this gets going.
<forumsmatthew> u-g +1
<forumsmatthew> I've read the spec. My only comment is that I like it.
* PriceChild tries to find the section on you guys appointing leaders
<ravtux> +1 "forums-developer ambassadors" name
<PriceChild> ah yes "appointed by forum admins"
<MikeB-> we should have someone mention this at the Tech Board Meeting
<forumsmatthew> FA Leaders are appointed by Forum Admins. FA Members nominations (and recommendations) are put forward to Forum Admins by FA Leaders and approved by Forum Admins.
<mako> yeah, forums-developer seems a little bit more accurate, but it's just a semantic difference
<forumsmatthew> anything else we need to discuss with this?
<MikeB-> nope, glad see it happening
<ubuntugeek> nope not from me.. when its time and you need the subforum etc just send me a PM
<PriceChild> Ok good good....
<PriceChild> I'll email ud and maniac with the snippet of this conversation
<ubuntugeek> sounds good
* PriceChild smiles
<ravtux> :-)
<ubuntugeek> Alrightly.. vorian whats next?
<Vorian> put on your riot gear! its time for the backyard.
* PriceChild wonders whether anyone else has come for this...
<Vorian> Ryan Troy
<Vorian> 
<Vorian> RFC on the future of the Backyard
<Vorian> Discussion on the purpose and future of the Backyard
<ubuntugeek> Ah yes our lovely backyard :)
<Vorian> hehe
<ubuntugeek> where the children tend to not play nice
<ravtux> very un-ubuntu like
<JayTee52> agreed
<ubuntugeek> ravtux: explain?
<forumsmatthew> okay, I'm back
<forumsmatthew> connection problems
<MikeB-> I think the backyard is important in a weird way, it is a pressure value for that type of chatter and keep other sub-forum cleaner
<ubuntugeek> One of the major issues with the backyard is people A. not reading the rules.
<forumsmatthew> agreed
<forumsmatthew> I think with consistent enforcement we are doing better
<ubuntugeek> I think if we can find a happy medium and direct people to read the rules and understand them there wouldnt be so much drama.
<forumsmatthew> even this week
<SD-Plissken> What rules? if you read some of those threads it would seem there are no rules.
<MikeB-> that is a problem in our business, no one read the EULA:)
<forumsmatthew> week's crud we're doing well
<ubuntugeek> So, is the general consensus that the backyard is an important aspect but we need to improve the visibility and understanding how it works?
<forumsmatthew> I think if we eliminate it we don't have any place for the "not appropriate for the cafe, but not really bad" topics
<PriceChild> +1 ubuntugeek
<forumsmatthew> ubuntugeek, that's what I'm thinking
<forumsmatthew> +1
<MikeB-> +1
<SD-Plissken> I don't understand why we as Linux support forum have to support politically based threads,and other rants.
<Vorian> +1
<SD-Plissken> -1
<PriceChild> SD-Plissken, we don't support it...
<forumsmatthew> SD-Plissken, because Linux attracts people interested in politics...free software is often a political topic
<MikeB-> SD-Plissken: people want community with people they like
<forumsmatthew> because people like to be in relationship, not just get tech support
<ravtux> I think it's important to remind members that it is moderated and not mf
<SD-Plissken> The heck you say PriceChild. You have a section for this crap to be posted that is a form of support
<bapoumba> backyard is a drawback to members feeling at home on the forums
<forumsmatthew> because adults talk about issues
<PriceChild> SD-Plissken, In my view its more of a place where it can be pushed to the side
<_MMA_> bapoumba: +1
<PriceChild> SD-Plissken, if we get rid of the backyard, it only appears further in the cafe
<ravtux> I have talked with new members who are afriad to post in the beginners section much less the backyard
<ravtux> bapoumba: +1
<MikeB-> phone brb
<forumsmatthew> ravtux, is that because of the existence of the backyard, though?
<SD-Plissken> forumsmatthew if you going to take that stance then you need to remove the rules since it's a place for adults to vent. I mean if your going to make it feel home like might as well go all the way.
<forumsmatthew> no, I don't have to remove the rules
<forumsmatthew> people can have a discussion
<ravtux> forumsmatthew: because of post be members
<forumsmatthew> of difficult
<forumsmatthew> topics
<ravtux> forumsmatthew: who tend to bully
<forumsmatthew> without forgetting to be polite and use manners
<ravtux> forumsmatthew: which the backyard breeds
<forumsmatthew> the people who are posting this way in the backyard are being dealt with, aren't they?
<forumsmatthew> brb, phone
<MikeB-> back
<ravtux> forumsmatthew: yes, I just agree with that it makes new members uneasy
<SD-Plissken> The yard needs to go along with the topics.  Unless your willing to have atleast two mods who job is to police that section.
<mako> if it's not too late
<ravtux> SD-Plissken: strong agreement with stronger moderation if the backyard stays
<forumsmatthew> back
<PriceChild> SD-Plissken, I think one of the great things about being a mod is that we aren't expected to fulfil quota of our activities
<forumsmatthew> mako: please speak up
<mako> my general feeling is that places like the by are probably worth putting up with a certain amount of trouble
<mako> because they help turn technical communities into real communities
<ravtux> SD-Plissken: we don't need a mod-free forum
<MikeB-> mako +1
<mako> so on planet, the one thing we ask is that people consider providing a whole feed with more than just ubuntu related stuff
<ravtux> at ubuntuforums.org
<mako> which may seem kind of weird
<bapoumba> ravtux, ^^ they have mods on mod-free ;)
<mako> and some people are comfortable doing it
<mako> but you get to know each other as people, and not just hackers on the same project
<forumsmatthew> mako, I like seeing people's vacation pics and baby stories pop up on planet--it's humanizing
<mako> and sometimes you don't like what you find ;)
<ubuntugeek> mako: agreed
<mako> there have been some political stuff that there caused problems
<mako> all the same stuff that gives you crap in the by
<ravtux> bapoumba: we just need to enforce that the backyard does not become a place to voice hate
<mako> obviously, there are lines
<JayTee52> ravtux +1
<bapoumba> ravtux, +1, and bear with complains
<forumsmatthew> I think we just need to make the lines clear(er?)
<PriceChild> Could we maybe take a look over the current rules?
<ravtux> the stuff that gives trouble is reoccuring and has been effectively dealt with in the past
<PriceChild> (backyard rules)
<mako> and there plenty of rss feeds in existance that would *not* be ok for planet, or stuff that does not belong in the by
<mako> but while it's a pain to have a more open space, i think it really serves your community to have it
<SD-Plissken> The by serves to only allow posts that seem to incite fighting. Rules are ignored,and when enforced come under fire by those posting that section.
<mako> that's my very general feeling
<forumsmatthew> Again, I will volunteer to oversee any adjusting to the backyard rules we need and review changes with the rest of the FC for approval
<MikeB-> how hard would being for people to have to check a box and agree to the Forums CoC and Ubuntu CoC when posting to the Backyard?
<Vorian> I think that the phrase "lightly moderatored area" is what causes problems
<bapoumba> MikeB-, +1
<ubuntugeek> mikeb: not hard
<SD-Plissken> forumsmatteh you don't understand no matter what you revise in the rules they will continue to be ignored.
<JayTee52> MikeB, excellent idea
<PriceChild> MikeB-, Like a checkbox you have to tick every time you post?
<ravtux> Vorian: agreed it should be Strongly moderated
<MikeB-> PriceChild: yup
<PriceChild> I like that... rather than a one time thing :)
<ubuntugeek> perhaps just removing the lightly moderated text
<ravtux> ubuntugeek: +1
<PriceChild> ubuntugeek, +1
<forumsmatthew> Vorian, good point
<ubuntugeek> we cant please everyone specially with 237,000 users
<Vorian> ubuntugeek, yep
<MikeB-> ubuntugeek: +1
<ubuntugeek> OK, so I will remove the lightly moderated text and put up a general "agree to the rules" system for the backyard
<MikeB-> consider we have 237,000 users the backyard is not that crazy:)
<ubuntugeek> that the plan?
<SD-Plissken> MikeB are you kidding come on not everyone values the CoC as those in here may. It easy to click that and still get into fights in the thread. fine you ban that person for breaking the rules yet they are still able to  re log in under a different ip and user name.
<MikeB-> sounds like
<forumsmatthew> works for me
<Vorian> sound good
<forumsmatthew> ubuntugeek, +1
<ubuntugeek> mikeb: right :) the problem is that some topics in the backyard touch on personal issues/beliefts of others. its really a catch 22.
<ubuntugeek> ok +1
<ubuntugeek> wasnt to bad of a conversation :)
<Vorian> hehe
<Vorian> feel free to take your riot gear off now.
<ubuntugeek> anything else?
<ravtux> what about new mods
<Vorian> kiwi's proposal???
<ubuntugeek> we are going to deal with new mods in march
<forumsmatthew> kiwi's not here
<ravtux> ok
<MikeB-> SD-Plissken: I wish I had a good answer for that
<ubuntugeek> lets move kiwi's proposal to march
<ravtux> ok
<MikeB-> sounds good
<Vorian> ubuntugeek, done
<forumsmatthew> agreed
<PriceChild> SD-Plissken, the point is that if they click... they agree to the rules and therefore the consequences if they violate these rules
<ubuntugeek> I think we are going to arrange the FC meetings to a different time so more of us can attend. Dates to be posted in the near future.
<PriceChild> SD-Plissken, it makes it easier for us to enfoce
<ravtux> anything else,....my wife wants me to clean the bathroom
<Vorian> thats all of the agenda....
<mako> ubuntugeek: your proposal sounds reasonable to me :)
<PriceChild> Any new mods being considered?
<ravtux> perhaps on a Sunday evening?
<ubuntugeek> Thanks all.. Grats to Mike for his CC nomination and thanks to everyone for hammering out the issues in the previous meeting.
<forumsmatthew> and to all selected as team leads
<ubuntugeek> ravtux: not sure yet
<mako> thanks for listening to me spout, it was cool to be able to watch a meeting
<MikeB-> yes thanks all, and congrats to the new teams
<mako> i'm totally thrilled you guys have gotten off to such a running start
<Vorian> ubuntugeek, I'll have the wiki updated later tonight
<ravtux> congrats to all
<ubuntugeek> mako: only our second meeting so its still rough around the edges :P
<forumsmatthew> thanks, mako
<ubuntugeek> thanks vorian..
<SD-Plissken> PriceChild enforce what CoC please like i said even if you ban them for the offense they can still re-log in under a different ip user name
<ravtux> Vorian: thanks for the reasonable solution to the backyard
<Vorian> thanks ravtux :)
<forumsmatthew> SD-Plissken, and the new accounts get dealt with as we saw this week...
<ubuntugeek> sd-plissken: not for long.. I am working on a new module to block this kind of stuff
<PriceChild> ubuntugeek, hehe :)
<forumsmatthew> ubuntugeek, ooh...cool
<ravtux> take care all have a great week
<Vorian> anything else?
<MikeB-> ubuntugeek: woot
<ubuntugeek> Nothing from me..
<Vorian> ----------------->End Forum Council Meeting<-----------------
<forumsmatthew> Vorian, I think we're done
<PriceChild> Oh ubuntugeek could I pm you for a minute about ubuntu-uk?
<ravtux> for March bodhi.zazen for mod
<bapoumba> just a thank you for taking me onboard :)
<_MMA_> Hey guys. How do I get something talked about at the next meeting?
<Vorian> _MMA_, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ForumCouncilAgenda
<_MMA_> \m/
<MikeB-> later all work calls
<forumsmatthew> bye, everyone
<Vorian> bye MikeB-
<forumsmatthew> family is calling and food is ready
<ravtux> wife calls
<ravtux> bye all
<ravtux> matthew pm later ok if need be
<eft> leave
<eft> quit
<eft> doh
<bapoumba> bye then
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 13 Feb 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 14 Feb 10:00 UTC: MOTU | 14 Feb 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 15 Feb 05:00 UTC: IRC Operators | 15 Feb 21:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 17 Feb 15:00 UTC: Xubuntu
<jean> hi
<PriceChild> Hi jean ?
<AlexLatchford> :)
<jean> yes
<jean> Lord Illidan on the forums
<PriceChild> Ah jean, we ended about an hour and a half ago sorry :)
<jean> I know I'm late
<jean> what went on?
<PriceChild> jean, you got selected as the Hardware Team Leader though: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=360619
<jean> ouch
<jean> 10x but I cannot possibly accept the offer
<jean> I'm about to start 3 months of exams :S
<jean> though I am extremely honoured to hear that I had been selected
<PriceChild> Ouch
<PriceChild> Best you pm ubuntugeek then I suppose :(
<jean> k
<jean> I won't be active for some time
<jean> also, I'm not using Ubuntu anymore
<PriceChild> :(
<PriceChild> Heresey!!! :)
<jean> ah well
<jean> as long as it is linux :)
<PriceChild> Hehe :)
<jean> hey, even RavTux doesn't use Ubuntu :)
<PriceChild> shh ;)
<jean> I find Zenwalk faster :)
<jean> i got to go continue studying
<jean> Don't get me wrong, PriceChild
<jean> I love Ubuntu..It was the distro that really got me started with Linux
<PriceChild> Haha don't be silly, I've got nothing against you running other OS's :)
<jean> and if it wasn't for these damned exams, I'd accept without hesitation
<PriceChild> and yes work is infinitely more important than ubuntu :)
<jean> but I got some more priorities...if I don't pass these exams no career, no money, I shoot myself
<jean> and for what it's worth, I'd recommend Ubuntu over Zenwalk to newbies anyday
<PriceChild> hehe good good :)
<PriceChild> Well good luck :)
<jean> 10x, I need it :)
<jean> cya in summer :S
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: Technical Board | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 14 Feb 10:00 UTC: MOTU | 14 Feb 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 15 Feb 05:00 UTC: IRC Operators | 15 Feb 21:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 17 Feb 15:00 UTC: Xubuntu
<Lure> @schedule Ljubljana
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Ljubljana: Current meeting: Technical Board | 14 Feb 11:00: MOTU | 14 Feb 21:00: Edubuntu | 15 Feb 06:00: IRC Operators | 15 Feb 22:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 17 Feb 16:00: Xubuntu
<mdz> (FYI: I haven't been able to reach any other tech board members, so we don't have a quorum)
<asac> mdz: you think they still might pop up or is the meeting officially cancelled?
<mdz> asac: Scott is definitely not available, and I have heard nothing from sabdfl or mjg59
<asac> mdz: ok, then I think I will sign off now :)
<mdz> asac: apologies for the inconvenience
<asac> mdz: no problems ... every 2 weeks? thats fine.
<mdz> asac: by the next meeting, you'll have some Ubuntu uploads under your belt, so that will be good anyway
<asac> k
<sabdfl> evening all
<ajmitch> hi
<sabdfl> asac: ping
<asac> sabdfl: pong
<sabdfl> asac: if we can get some time from mdz, perhaps we could handle your -core-dev application now?
<asac> sure ...
<mdz> I have only 6 minutes before an important conference call
<sabdfl> asac, do you have a few sentences prepared?
<asac> shall I go ahead and provide some infos on me?
<sabdfl> go for it
<asac> Hi all!
<asac> I applied to become (core-)dev team member as I think it is important for my work on mozilla applications to be able to upload to main and to be able to do proper bug triage with full control on all bugs related to firefox et al.
<asac> I did setup a tiny wiki page to introduce myself on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlexanderSack
<asac> If joining the team so quickly - taking kind of a shortcut - is against all common procedures, I would offer to cancel my application. I /can/ go the standard community way after all.
<asac> Obviously, I prefer to get all privileges I need and start to work on my main duties right away ;).
<asac> What do you think? Any questions?
<sabdfl> i am quite happy with the idea of giving someone a fast-track for a defined set of packages
<mdz> note, I sent mail just now with information about joining the QA team (which is sufficient for bug triage)
<sabdfl> i think mdz is less so
<sabdfl> i would actually like us to support htis in the LP upload security model, though we don't yet do so
<asac> as my current task fill me quite well I doubt that I will come to upload other packages that are not mozilla related.
<mdz> asac: in general, we are happy to fast-track developers with substantial Debian experience, with only limited Ubuntu experience, because of the similar skills involved
<sabdfl> asac: would you be willing to commit to just uploading the moz* set until a more general -core-dev approval was reasonable?
<asac> so there is no danger that I will touch anything else for the time being.
<sabdfl> i would be self-enforced, since there is no restriction on main uploads beyond membership in -core-dev
<mdz> asac: did Colin review the application process with you?
<sabdfl> i think it would be good for debian/ubuntu relations too
<asac> sabdfl: sure ... as I said ... I won't touch other packages
<asac> mdz: he gave me some hints today ... e.g. that i should upload an initial package and prepare a wiki page.
<mdz> right, it's usually best to have done at least some uploads which have been peer-reviewed by an existing developer
<asac> mdz: but no thorough review.
<mjg59> Apologies for the insane lateness
<sabdfl> mjg59: how do you feel about giving permission for someone to upload just a restricted set of packages to main?
<asac> i did an initial upload of enigmail today (sponsored by martin)
<sabdfl> upside is he's a DD with lots of experience
<asac> mjg59: hi
<sabdfl> tricky part is he's #canonical now and we don't as a rule fast-track them
<mdz> asac: is martin here?
<mjg59> sabdfl: My personal feeling is that anyone with the ability to upload to main can distrupt pretty much anyone else who can upload to main
<asac> mdz: he left for dinner already
<asac> unfortunately
<sabdfl> mjg59: right, we don't have the ability to restrict to package sets except voluntarily
<sabdfl> and an upload can disrupt a release or milestone easily
<mjg59> And therefore, unless the set of packages is a very carefully chosen subset, the decision process should be pretty much identical
<sabdfl> moz* is carefully chosen but totally critical and potentially disruptive :-)
<mjg59> More socially, introducing new processes for someone who is on-staff is likely to engender some feeling of ill-balance
<sabdfl> i'm ok deferring the approval for now
* ogra wonders if the ability to maintain a non easy and big package shouldnt suffice for -core-dev ....
<sabdfl> for that very reason
<sabdfl> ogra: we have unique processes
<sabdfl> it's familiar packaging, but new protocols, conventions, tla's
<sabdfl> someone could easily just make a mistake
<mdz> even where the target is a specific set of packages, I think it's important to have confirmation of work that has been done through a sponsor
<sabdfl> even experienced DD's need to show some insight and interest in the ubuntu community
<sabdfl> before getting +1 on MOTU and -core-dev
<sabdfl> so i think it would be wrong to fast-track a #canonical person
<mjg59> With hindsight, I regret the fact that I never worked through MOTU
<sabdfl> mjg59: i don't think MOTU existed when you first got involved ;-)
<mdz> and that we should be careful not to show a bias for people employed by Canonical, except insofar as it's supported by fact (e.g., time and inclination to contribute)
<sabdfl> right
<mjg59> So while I'm clearly in favour of better support for our Mozilla packages
<sabdfl> ok, asac, do you mind continuing to bounce things through other -core-dev, and getting going with dholbach &co afap
<mjg59> My feeling is that having it sponsored in the normal way is a better bet
<sabdfl> agreed
<asac> as I said ... going the long way is fine with me.
<sabdfl> shouldn't be too long, you get to do this 9-5 :-)
<sabdfl> tada. fastest TBmeeting EVA
<mjg59> sabdfl: Not /strictly/ true
<ogra> not true ...
<ogra> :)
<mjg59> We've had one take < 5 minutes
<sabdfl> bugger
<mdz> (sorry, I'm on a phone call now)
<asac> bye and thanks for the time.
<sabdfl> mjg59: how are the flies?
<mjg59> Flies should be in bed by June
<sabdfl> euphemistic for "sleeping forever on a bed of cotton wool and formalin"?
<mjg59> Something like that
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 14 Feb 10:00 UTC: MOTU | 14 Feb 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 15 Feb 05:00 UTC: IRC Operators | 15 Feb 21:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 17 Feb 15:00 UTC: Xubuntu | 21 Feb 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu
#ubuntu-meeting 2007-02-14
<sid> @schedule New_York
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/New_York: 14 Feb 05:00: MOTU | 14 Feb 15:00: Edubuntu | 15 Feb 00:00: IRC Operators | 15 Feb 16:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 17 Feb 10:00: Xubuntu | 21 Feb 07:00: Edubuntu
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: MOTU | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 14 Feb 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 15 Feb 05:00 UTC: IRC Operators | 15 Feb 21:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 17 Feb 15:00 UTC: Xubuntu | 21 Feb 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu
<dholbach> hello everybody - do we have a motu meeting right now?
<sistpoty> hi dholbach
<ajmitch> we do!
<dholbach> I thought maybe everybody was out to celebrate Valentine's day :)
<ajmitch> at least I hope we have enough people
<ajmitch> I think a few are
<ajmitch> (or just sleeping)
<dholbach> ok... who's here?
<ajmitch> laserjock sends his apologies, 2AM isn't suitable
<TheMuso> Valentine's day? Who'd waste their time with that?
<jsgotangco> lol
<ajmitch> TheMuso: people who aren't single :)
<TheMuso> Thats understandable IMO
<ajmitch> hey jsgotangco :)
* jsgotangco gives TheMuso @}--,--
<dholbach> http://xkcd.com/c223.html
<sistpoty> ajmitch: I tend to agree... 11am isn't suitable *g*
<ajmitch> sistpoty: I'm impressed that you're awake at this early hour :)
<dholbach> scottk has an item on the agenda, but doesn't seem to be here
* tmarble notes 4 AM isn't ultra suitable either, :)
<ajmitch> so the rest is sistpoty? :)
<sistpoty> ajmitch: well... awake is a different state than I'm in now *g+
<dholbach> sistpoty: you have some items on the agenda - why don't you start us off?
<sistpoty> ok
<sistpoty> anyone volunteering for the minutes?
<ajmitch> um
* ajmitch may as well
<sistpoty> cool, thx ajmitch
<TheMuso> ajmitch: I will if you'd rather not.
<TheMuso> I don't mind you doing it, but if you really don't want to.
<ajmitch> TheMuso: ok, thanks :)
<sistpoty> great, thx TheMuso
<sistpoty> let's get started, right?
* TheMuso is autologging so can follow up.
<sistpoty> first item: Proposal to drop the requirement for MOTU's to have new packages reviewed
<sistpoty> well... we're always lagging with revu behind
<ajmitch> and enough MOTUs skip this step
<sistpoty> and imo it doesn't seem that sane that motu's should have the same requirements as non-motus to bring new packages in
<TheMuso> As well as already having the rights and responsibilities that come with the title of MOTU.
<ajmitch> it wasn't the same, but it was 1 other ACK
<sistpoty> practices differ ;)
<ajmitch> yeah
<TheMuso> Yep.
<ajmitch> the intended practice was that a MOTU upload to REVU & get 1 other MOTU to check it
<sistpoty> well... I'd propose that motu's are "encouraged to get a new package reviewed" instead of forcing them to go through revu
<sistpoty> what do you think?
<ajmitch> that has frequently been skipped by MOTUs who've been around awhile :)
<ajmitch> sure
<TheMuso> I like that.
<dholbach> I agree, TheMuso has a point... although I think that probably the MC should take that decision once it's active. This decision has more consequences than others.
<TheMuso> One area that other reviewing is useful is copyright related stuff.
<tfheen> as an archive team member, I'd be fine with you dropping the requirement, but if it ends up being even more rejects because of it, I'd like you to reconsider.
<TheMuso> Fair enough.
<sistpoty> great
<sistpoty> any objections?
<dholbach> what do you think about deferring the decision to the first MC meeting?
<ajmitch> sounds fair
<sistpoty> fine with me
<TheMuso> Yep. I'm sure crimsun would have something to say on this.
<dholbach> we gathered enough arguments now, but I think that a policy decision should be made by the MC
<dholbach> alrighty, let's move on
<sistpoty> ok... scottk isn't here, right?
<dholbach> yeah, let's move on - we can discuss his question on the mailing list
<sistpoty> Decide on standard policy for upstream debian dirs
<dholbach> I don't think it's necessary to have a policy for that, but a "best practice" bit in the FAQ maybe
<dholbach> shall I kick off a thread on the mailing list for that?
<TheMuso> I saw one package that renamed upstream's debian to debian.upstream.
<sistpoty> well... it was discussed on the ml in the past, but without a result
<sistpoty> so I'd rather discuss it here to have it settled
<dholbach> ok, there are 3 possibilities: 1) remove it, 2) rename it, 3) leave it (and in all cases talk to upstream to get it removed there)
<dholbach> (maybe also: repackage, native package)
* ajmitch tends towards  leave it + fix it
<TheMuso> I have seen many a package that ships with .spec files etc for rpm based distros, so what has been the problem with upstream providing a debian dir in the past?
<sistpoty> imo the first thing would always be to ask upstream to remove it... if that won't work, I'd tend to say that any packager may do as he seems fit
<sistpoty> TheMuso: the problem is that you cannot remove files from it (unless you remove them from the tarball) and that the .diff.gz looks kinda weird
<ajmitch> TheMuso: it's harder to change a number of files in a .diff.gz, since it doesn't track deletions well
<TheMuso> Right.
<dholbach> I don't think I'd dictate a workflow there.
<ajmitch> it depends on how messy upstream's debian/ is
<ajmitch> so up to the packager
<ajmitch> I think the issue was new people getting conflicting advice
<dholbach> who wants to add a blurb to MOTU/FAQ? :)
<sistpoty> ok... everybody agreeing that it's up to the packager?
<TheMuso> Yep.
<dholbach> yeah
<sistpoty> great
<sistpoty> I'll add the text to motu/faq, if no one else is faster ;)
<sistpoty> let's move on, shall we?
<dholbach> sure
<dholbach> thanks sistpoty
<TheMuso> yep ok
<ajmitch> make it a fast meeting :)
<sistpoty> :)
<sistpoty> well, this was discussed on the ml as well... do we want zero-install injector?
<tmarble> here's a naive question... if upstream debian/ is significantly changed does that hamper fix flow back to debian (i.e. does not minimize the debian-ubuntu diff)?
<ajmitch> seems like there's only 4 of us here & active
<ajmitch> tmarble: in this case, upstream is the original author, rather than debian
<TheMuso> What is zero-install injector?
<tmarble> ajmitch, ah i see (sorry for the confusion)
<sistpoty> TheMuso: it let's an user install packages, which get downloaded by some means
<ajmitch> tmarble: often the original upstream project might have someone who's contributing packaging in their project, and it's not in debian yet
<dholbach> sistpoty: do we have a link to the project? who wanted to bring it into ubuntu? it sounds more like an archive admin decision to me?
<grimace> www.0install.net
<ajmitch> sistpoty: I'm not really a fan of more breakage, but I've heard less scary things about zeroinstall than about autopackage
<tsmithe> i think we should let 0install in, on the basis of not what it is, but it being an ok and legal package. we don't have to support it's efforts
<sistpoty> tfheen: still there? could you share us your opinion on zero-install?
<dholbach> ask pitti :)
<tfheen> sistpoty: let me take a look.
<ajmitch> see if he runs away screaming?
<sistpoty> well, I reviewed the package (also looking at the code a lilttle bit) and it didn't seem too offensive security wise
<tfheen> like klik, it seems.
<sistpoty> however it provides an alternate means to install software
<talex> Hi guys. I'm the author of Zero Install, so if you have any technical questions, ask away...
<sistpoty> so I'm really undecided
<sistpoty> hi talex
<grimace> I've been running it for years very nicely ;)
<sistpoty> how about letting archive admins decide on this issue?
<dholbach> sistpoty++
<TheMuso> THat sounds sane to me.
<tfheen> depends on how it works, but if it's like klik which does something like MacOS disk images, I'm fine with it, from an archive POV, but I think we can offer a much better user experience by packaging the software properly.
<tfheen> talex might be able to comment (short) on that?
<grimace> tfheen: then it will be up to the user to agree with you?
<talex> It installs to a self contained directory, rather than a disk image, but same principle.
<talex> Also, the download is an XML file, rather than a shell script, but the effect is the same.
<tfheen> ok.
<tfheen> from an archive point of view, that's fine with me and as long as it doesn't end up tripping the rest of the system (*cough* autopackage *cough*) it shouldn't cause problems either.
<talex> Right. It will never install anything outside of ~/.cache/0install.net or (if run as root) /var/cache/0install.net
<sistpoty> tfheen: ok, then I'll just upload the package and you can look at it via new... ok?
<tfheen> sistpoty: sure.
<sistpoty> great... let's move on
<ajmitch> great, halfway through the meeting items
<dholbach> sistpoty wants to review the uvf-process
<ajmitch> UVF team/process
<ajmitch> some confusion here
<sistpoty> well... UVF has just started...
<dholbach> slomo, siretart and I agreed to have the same uvf team again to avoid having to vote etc again
<dholbach> the next team should be appointed by the MC (in time!) :)
<dholbach> we just didn't want to have a delay because of that
<TheMuso> dholbach: Makes sense.
<sistpoty> ok... have there been many UVF requests yet? are you getting along well?
<dholbach> atm there are 7 open afaik
* ajmitch wasn't sure if he was meant to vote or not, so refrained from confusing people :)
<sistpoty> (basically the item was just a ping to make sure everything's working as expected)
<ajmitch> dholbach: if I get going this weekend I'll have a bunch more
<dholbach> I'll go through the open bugs later today
<ajmitch> dholbach: there's 1 unconfirmed assigned to motu-uvf
<ajmitch> I think that once they're confirmed, motu-uvf should be unassigned, right?
<dholbach> yeah that'd make sense
<tmarble> sorry for the n00b question, just what exactly *is* the UVF process? (i.e. file special bugs, etc.)?
* ajmitch would think that would be internal team agreement
<ajmitch> tmarble: yep, file a bug, assign it to motu-uvf
* ajmitch pulls up the wiki page
<dholbach> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FreezeExceptionProcess#head-9523bc4076ff011324d67cddc97969ec609618d6
<ajmitch> thanks
<sistpoty> ok... if everything is working (as it looks to me), I see no need for further discussion
<dholbach> tmarble: we're in upstream version freeze now, so a special team checks a upstream changelog diff and a diffstat before approval
<dholbach> revu sprint sounds good :)
<ajmitch> sistpoty: so from that, motu-uvf don't upload on the 2nd ack, that's only for SRU :)
<ajmitch> I thought another revu sprint was already scheduled?
<sistpoty> ajmitch: yep, right... there is no debdiff involved
<sistpoty> is it?
<dholbach> no
<TheMuso> ajmitch: News to me.
<ajmitch> if not, then let's do it
<sistpoty> ajmitch: since you're chief of qa, please pick a sensible date ;)
<ajmitch> hah
<TheMuso> haha
<ajmitch> what time suits people?
<sistpoty> hehe
<ajmitch> monday/tuesday?
<TheMuso> Whenever at the moment. I'm around a lot of my waking hours.
<dholbach> sounds good to me
<ajmitch> ok
<sistpoty> sounds sane
<ajmitch> it's generally just a time for people to do more reviewing
<ajmitch> sanity, from me?
* ajmitch is slipping\
<dholbach> :-)
<sistpoty> hehe
<TheMuso> ajmitch: lol
<dholbach> ok... moving to TODOs
<sistpoty> well... this point is up for everyone...
<dholbach> sistpoty: is the item a try to update the TODO page?
<ajmitch> yeah, I've slipped behind on getting more lists, and getting commented lists
<dholbach> UnmetDeps for sure
<dholbach> I see one 'transition' coming up, but the documentation for that is not ready yet: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PyDbgBuilds
<ajmitch> since I promised a commentable unmet deps list & some others
<dholbach> so don't mention that yet
<ajmitch> how much work in that one?
<dholbach> doko will write something to the lists too
<TheMuso> Is there a way of getting a list of unmet deps for source packages?
<ajmitch> TheMuso: the basic way is apt-cache -u unmet
<ajmitch> and then pushing that through a few filters to get a list of source packages
<sistpoty> hm... how about doing mass bug filing for unmet deps?
<ajmitch> should be easy enough if they're verified before filing
<sistpoty> dholbach: didn't you do that with a script for edgy?
<dholbach> sistpoty: massfiling bugs?
<sistpoty> dholbach: yep
* ajmitch would like to see that pre-tagging support for filing bugs in malone
<dholbach> sistpoty: http://daniel.holba.ch/bzr/massfile
<sistpoty> cool
<ajmitch> who's going to do it? we don't want 2 or 3 people mass-filing :)
* sistpoty hides behind his thesis
<dholbach> I thought about using python-bughelper to determine if bugs are already filed.
<ajmitch> sistpoty: fine, I'll volunteer :P
<dholbach> but I'm not sure it's going to work as it is atm
<sistpoty> ajmitch: great :)
<geser> on which arch will the checking be done for the bugs?
<ajmitch> dholbach: it'd be slow & cause plenty of LP load
<ajmitch> geser: amd64 or x86, I've got both
<ajmitch> in a nice squeaky clean chroot
<dholbach> ajmitch: no no :)
<geser> there are some unmet deps which only appear on one arch (due to ftbfs)
<dholbach> what else do we have? how are the merges looking?
<ajmitch> dholbach: no no?
<ajmitch> merges are looking better
<dholbach> ajmitch: no no "slow" :)
<TheMuso_> um.... ok guys
<sistpoty> well... we still have ajmitch's list of RC-bug fixes
<ajmitch> there are still a number of serious/grave bugs that debian has fixed
<TheMuso_> I was cut off. What'd I miss?
<ajmitch> yeah
<sistpoty> and lucas list's of FTBFS
<ajmitch> TheMuso: you've been delegated to fix universe bugs
<dholbach> TheMuso_: I'll paste you what happened
<ajmitch> logs should be on the usual place later
<TheMuso_> dholbach: Thanks.
<dholbach> what else do we have? pythondbg (once it gets started), unmet deps, merges - what else? :)
<sistpoty> bug fixing, bug fixing, bug fixing ...
<dholbach> ok, sounds good :)
<ajmitch> so more sync request need to be filed for the RC bugs, I filed about 50 already, I'll get onto doing some more
<dholbach> ahh... how many motus are you mentoring at the moment?
<ajmitch> I may need UVF exceptions, so be ready :)
<ajmitch> none
* ajmitch is too scary to mentor people
<dholbach> i don't believe a word :)
<dholbach> ok... if people talk to you, we should be good at pointing them at the todo
<TheMuso_> ajmitch: You are thorough.
<sistpoty> ok... anything else on the TODO-list? if not let's agree on a date of the next meeting
<dholbach> maybe we should also try to tag universe bugs as "packaging bug" or something
<ajmitch> ok, we've got enough to keep the TODO updated?
<dholbach> so people who are interested can get involved easily in fixing packaging
<TheMuso_> who's updating it?
<sistpoty> dholbach++
<dholbach> what do you think about having a universe bug sprint to do just that
<ajmitch> bug triage, or bug fixing?
<dholbach> for bughelper bugs we use "bitesize" to indicate an easy bug
<TheMuso_> I guess that sort of thing can happen after FF?
<dholbach> triage, so we can point people to a list of bugs
<dholbach> maybe we should have a discussion about bug tags on the mailing list
<ajmitch> dholbach: sounds like something the bugsquad may be able to do
<sistpoty> that would be great
<dholbach> i can see "packaging" and "bitesize" as useful already
<dholbach> ajmitch: we should do that too
<dholbach> ajmitch: we can't shove bugs to "bugsquad"
<ajmitch> if there are people in the bugsquad who can identify stuff as packaging bugs
<dholbach> that doesn't work
<ajmitch> no, but I'd hope that they be the first line of bug triage :)
<dholbach> we should make an effort too
<dholbach> and explain what our "guidelines" and "ideas" are
<ajmitch> of course, I'm not saying that we should drop it on them
<dholbach> ok
<dholbach> any other business?
<geser> what should we do with mozilla-browser in feisty? it's removed from debian and replaced with seamonkey upstream
<ajmitch> next meeting time
<ajmitch> if we keep mozilla-browser in feisty, someone will need to keep it updated
<geser> from where will you update it? upstream abandoned it
<sistpoty> I'd like to go with debian in this respect, unless someone is volunteering to take care of it
* ajmitch agrees
<dholbach> next meeting time: maybe we should have a MC meeting first and discuss where we want to go with MC meetings vs MOTU meetings
<ajmitch> dholbach: sounds good, so we need a MC first :)
<geser> should we replace mozilla-browser with iceape?
<dholbach> right-o
<dholbach> what about MC meeting end of next week?
<ajmitch> sounds good
<dholbach> that'd leave some time for the MC to talk to each other etc
<ajmitch> 3 (potential) MC members here to agree on it, so it should work
<sistpoty> yep... sounds sane
<dholbach> friday same time? a bit later?
<ajmitch> votes close in 13 hours, will you announce to the world after that?
<ajmitch> friday 10:00UTC?
<sistpoty> dholbach: a bit later would be nice for me :P
<ajmitch> will sistpoty be awake?
<sistpoty> hehe
<dholbach> sistpoty: 2h more? :)
<ajmitch> not too much later, please :)
* TheMuso_ notes that ajmitch set himself a trap.
<sistpoty> well.. 10utc is fine for me as well... I wanted to get a saner wake-sleep rythm anyways
<ajmitch> TheMuso_: sistpoty is more in my timezone than dholbach's ;)
<dholbach> ok fri, 23rd 10 utc MC meeting
<ajmitch> ok
* ajmitch notes that on his calendar
<dholbach> excellent
<dholbach> thanks a lot to everybody for a QUICK meeting
<sistpoty> cool :)
<ajmitch> thanks!
<dholbach> we're getting quite disciplined :)
<sistpoty> thanks
<ajmitch> it helped that there were so few of us
* TheMuso_ will endever to have the minutes on the ml in the next hour or so.
<ajmitch> TheMuso_: thank you very much
* dholbach writes a mail to ubuntu-bugsquad@ and ubuntu-motu@
<TheMuso_> np
<ajmitch> http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/ubuntu-meeting-current.html should have the full log in 30min or so, or I can stick it somewhere for you
<TheMuso_> Now if freenode could just kick my original connection, I'd be happier. :)
<dholbach>   /msg nickserv ghost themuso <password>
<TheMuso_> ajmitch: Besides the cutoff, where dholbach msgd the missed bits, I have it logged
<TheMuso_> dholbach: thanks
<ajmitch> ok, I've got the whole thing
<TheMuso> ajmitch: Thanks, but I'll probably not need it.
<ajmitch> http://ajmitch.net.nz/~ajmitch/motu-meeting.log
* TheMuso grabs anyway
<TheMuso> thanks
<TheMuso> I think NSW ADSL customers experienced something weird.
<TheMuso> anyways, back to -motu
<TheMuso> thanks folks
* Hobbsee waves
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 14 Feb 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 15 Feb 05:00 UTC: IRC Operators | 15 Feb 21:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 17 Feb 15:00 UTC: Xubuntu | 21 Feb 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 22 Feb 16:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team
<juliux> @schedule
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: 14 Feb 20:00: Edubuntu | 15 Feb 05:00: IRC Operators | 15 Feb 21:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 17 Feb 15:00: Xubuntu | 21 Feb 12:00: Edubuntu | 22 Feb 16:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<juliux> @schedule berlin
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Berlin: 14 Feb 21:00: Edubuntu | 15 Feb 06:00: IRC Operators | 15 Feb 22:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 17 Feb 16:00: Xubuntu | 21 Feb 13:00: Edubuntu | 22 Feb 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<azeem> W62
<azeem> oops.
<gnomefreak> @schedule new_york
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/New_York: 14 Feb 15:00: Edubuntu | 15 Feb 00:00: IRC Operators | 15 Feb 16:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 17 Feb 10:00: Xubuntu | 21 Feb 07:00: Edubuntu | 22 Feb 11:00: Ubuntu Development Team
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: Edubuntu | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 15 Feb 05:00 UTC: IRC Operators | 15 Feb 21:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 17 Feb 15:00 UTC: Xubuntu | 21 Feb 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 22 Feb 16:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team
* ogra waves
<willvdl> woot
<ogra> RichEd cant attend today
<willvdl> Firstly, thanks to anyone that is facing the wrath of wives, girlfrineds, boyfriends etc. by being here
<ogra> on my side there is not much for tech  ... last week was bus feautre freeze week ... this week is herd4 preparation week
<ogra> *busy
<ogra> so all i can say, help testing ! https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/ReportingResults has the new testing procedures
<ogra> to compensate the not implemented fat clients i enabled the kiosk plugin in ltsp ... you are able to build a webkiosk now very easily
<ogra> so we have at least the basic structure for a fat client ... people wanting a full desktop kiosk mode can even install (ed)ubuntu-desktop in the client ...
<willvdl> cool
<willvdl> had a chat with heno
<willvdl> seems LP is used mainly for test tracking (ooh what's that link again)
<ogra> it explains how to use LP :)
<ogra> what i'd like to point out to everyone is: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UES-Sevilla
<juliux> evening
<juliux> sorry i am late
<ogra> we will have our next educational conference in may
<willvdl> ogra: yeah :) https://launchpad.net/ubuntu-iso-tests
<willvdl> v. excited about this
<ogra> from may 3rd to may 4th we'll try to gather as many educators as possible in sevilla
<ogra> anybody is free to come indeed :)
<Spec> in spain?
<ogra> yep
<willvdl> yip
<willvdl> right before UDS
<ogra> it is directly attached to UDS
<ogra> anyway, thats all from my side unless there are questions
<willvdl> as RichEd would put it, it is a conf aimed at both "above the desktop" and "below"
<ogra> oh, if you test feisty, please test the serveraddon iso as well
<willvdl> how's 2nd CD coming along?
<willvdl> haven't had a chance to look this week
<ogra> well, i havent done the seed changes yet
<juliux> ogra, when is herd4 released?
<LaserJock> well, I still have a list of MIR Candidates at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JordanMantha/EdubuntuMIRCandidates
<ogra> so it's still the same as last week
<juliux> or will release
<ogra> juliux, tomorrow is ETA ... dunno if it will make it
<juliux> ogra, yes my fault i thought today is already the 15th;9
<LaserJock> I've almost finished a MIR for rasmol (I had a nightmare the other day that iwj found a CVE I didn't find)
<ogra> i'm planning to shuffle the seeds as soon as the Cd is out ... the dailies after that miught break horribly, so be careful
<willvdl> LaserJock, rasmol?
<ogra> LaserJock, heh
<LaserJock> molecule visualization
<ogra> LaserJock, so we share some fears actually :)
<LaserJock> it's like the first chemistry app I used
<LaserJock> the problem I'm seeing is the field get's narrowed down very fast if you take out apps that have a lot of dependencies in Universe and ones that aren't maintained well (either in Debian or upstream)
<ogra> yep
<ogra> but the field of apps in main we dont ship yet is big as well
<ogra> i'm pretty sure we'll get together something sufficient for feisty ... even if only one or two new apps come from universe
<LaserJock> I'd like to get qcad, octave, and stellarium in
<ogra> qucad is a good one
<ogra> -u
<LaserJock> drgeo has a dead upstream otherwise I'd do it
<ajmitch> is moodle going into main?
<LaserJock> it'll have to be reworked
<LaserJock> i.e. not for Feisty that I  know of
<ogra> ajmitch, it would have needed to be in before FF
<LaserJock> maybe ogra's worked on that
<ajmitch> ogra: a shame
<ogra> yeah
<LaserJock> I'd *like* to do it for Feisty+1
* ajmitch of course has authtool still stuck in NEW, so it won't get into main
<ogra> i'll package the most recent version for feisty+1 closely working with upstream (who will come to UES i hope)
<LaserJock> I was going to do it for Feisty but my time has been severly short
<ogra> it can be a ubuntuesque package that doesnt need to go to debian i.e. moodle1.7
<LaserJock> as far as 2nd CD stuff goes
<LaserJock> I really need feedback from educators
<ajmitch> ogra: I suggest looking at dbconfig-common to replace wwwconfig-common :)
<ogra> that saves us headdaches with upgrade paths and gives us the possibility to keep the 1.6 package for people who want it ...
<LaserJock> I have some ideas of packages but I'd rather package what educators already know they need, rather than what I think they need
* ajmitch won't derail the meeting further
<ogra> ajmitch, well, either that or totally without ***config-common
<ajmitch> if you want to write all the db creation & management scripts yourself
<ogra> for new packages we have all options :)
<ogra> notMax, but i can ask upstream to maintain them in a way that my postinst doesnt need to be freakys
<LaserJock> ogra: how strict is the "only one app for each task" for Edubuntu?
<ogra> that was supposed to read "no", sorry notMax
<ogra> LaserJock, depends, what do you propose ?
<LaserJock> I found several good calculator/function plotter type apps
<LaserJock> but they are really for different levels
<willvdl> LaserJock, I would imagine they would also tie into different backends?
<ogra> do you think you will find more of such apps ?
<LaserJock> lybniz is a really basic and usable function plotter that would be good for younger kids
<LaserJock> but qalculate is a really cool and powerful calculator (I hate to even call it that)
<LaserJock> it does unit conversion, plotting, etc.
<willvdl> and the kde one? kplot is it?
<ogra> kig i think
<LaserJock> yeah, there are a few kde ones
<LaserJock> qalculate has both gtk and qt versions I believe
<willvdl> yeah, kig
<LaserJock> seperate source though, which is weird
<willvdl> LaserJock, what about Logo/Squeak type thingies?
<LaserJock> Squeak is non-free
<LaserJock> not sure what we have for Logo
<ogra> we should go with the best still ... if we find more apps to categorize them i.e. in an edubuntu-science-advanced metapackage we should do so ...
<ogra> we have kturtle
<willvdl> love kturtle
<LaserJock> ogra: my point was, if I find apps that are sort of the same thing, just designed for different age ranges, is that considered a duplicate?
<ogra> thjats apparently still the best logo app
<willvdl>  kturtle :)
<ogra> LaserJock, not if we can group them into install tasks i would say
<ogra> if its only one single app i'd say we should consider exceptions on a case by case base
<LaserJock> ok, that's sort of what I was thinking
<LaserJock> so far calculators are the only ones I've run into
<willvdl> LaserJock, I'm not familiar with the packages but I woudl assume it's OK if one=primary and the other=secondary
<ogra> i'm all for replacing the gnome default calculator for example ...
<ogra> that leaves us with only one additional app ;)
<LaserJock> ogra: ok, so what is your feeling on me doing some more MIRs?
<ogra> since i expect at least one of them can work like a standard calculator
<LaserJock> I asked -devel if FF applied to these 2nd CD apps
<LaserJock> and they said it was basically up to you
<ogra> LaserJock, itz wont hurt ... if we dont get them in we still have MIRs we only need to update
<LaserJock> ok
<ogra> concentrate on the ones with the lest deps
<LaserJock> I'll continue working on them, and hopefully at a much more rapid pace
<ogra> *least
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> that's why I started with rasmol
<LaserJock> rasmol, lybniz, and qcad don't need any deps from Universe
<ogra> great
<LaserJock> octave is one that has a few
<LaserJock> but in my  thread on the forums it comes up a lot
<LaserJock> as the best free Matlab replacement
<ogra> is drgeo in main ?
<LaserJock> but it needs lam, mpich, hdf5, gnuplot, libgd
<LaserJock> no
<ogra> its an often requested app
<LaserJock> and it's upstream is dead so I didn't know if we could do a MIR or not
<juliux> octave is the beste math tool i ever used
<ogra> drgeo ?
<ogra> hmm, that ssad
<LaserJock> yeah, Burgwork found it for me
<willvdl> octave upstream dead?
<LaserJock> not octave, drgeo
<willvdl> ah
<LaserJock> drgeo really looks like a good app
<ogra> yeah, but nothing for now ...
<LaserJock> anyway
<LaserJock> I've been digging around
<LaserJock> trying to see which ones are worth it, etc.
<LaserJock> and I'm almost done with rasmol
<ogra> good
<LaserJock> but I should have more up by the end of the week
<LaserJock> I got some gchemutils work out of the way last night
<ogra> i'll kick kdeedu and gcompris off the CD on friday then ...
<ogra> and have a look around main for apps we could use
<LaserJock> oh, and I talked with jono about jokosher
<LaserJock> I don't know if I mentioned it to you ogra
<willvdl> intersting angle
<ogra> yep you did
<LaserJock> k
<ogra> inkscape looks like a good one ...
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> I'll go through Main too, I hadn't really thought about that
<ogra> with the free space we can finally ship mono ...  how about f-spot by default ?
<ogra> *f-spot
<willvdl> interesting, these are not what one "traditionally" lumps into educational tools?
<LaserJock> willvdl: it's still a computer :-)
<LaserJock> I think f-spot would be good
<LaserJock> tomboy too
<LaserJock> as students can keep notes
<ogra> willvdl, well, an app for vector drawing should be a standard
<ogra> we ship gimp for pixel pushing ... so we can as well grab inkscape :)
<willvdl> ogra, it should be in main as DTP app...
<ogra> inkscape is in main
<ogra> it's just not on any CDs yet
<willvdl> ah. there we go. gotcha
<LaserJock> is there an easy way to see what's in Main but not on the CDs?
<ogra> there are a bunch of such apps, i need to dig through that ...
<ogra> the seeds ...
<ogra> and germinate should be able to help you as well
<LaserJock> well, I could grab the Packages.gz from Main and subtract out what's in the seeds
<ogra> right
<LaserJock> I'm sure Pete could write something ;-)
<ogra> heh
<LaserJock> he wrote me a little script to check the deps
<LaserJock> for MIRs
<pochu> @now
<Ubugtu> Current time in Etc/UTC: February 14 2007, 20:34:29 - Current meeting: Edubuntu
<ogra> i'll need him for the TCM fixes ....
<LaserJock> :-)
<ogra> so dont put to much on hi,
<LaserJock> how's TCM going?
<ogra> *him
<LaserJock> I won't I promise?
<ogra> i fixed the final glitches with the package today
<LaserJock> s/?/:-)/
<LaserJock> sounds like big improvments since SCP
<ogra> the vnc part on my side is missing ... but thats a trivial one ...
<LaserJock> I haven't had a chance to use it as I don't have an LTSP setup
<LaserJock> but the screenshots look pretty cool
<ogra> will be fixed with the next ltsp upload i think
<juliux> ogra, is there a working TCM in herd4?
<ogra> juliux, kind of
<ogra> all old features will work ...
<ogra> there were no regressions ...
<juliux> and the new ones also?
<ogra> the new features still all have bugs
<juliux> ok
<ogra> but try them out and file them please :)
<ogra> so we get a list together
<juliux> we will do
<willvdl> is TCM registered on Malone?
<ogra> great :)
<juliux>  we have the whole sunday for testing,)
<ogra> willvdl, only the package i think ... not sure pete has an LP branch for it
<willvdl> so no bzr branch, but can catch bugs
<ogra> as long as we're only two devs its fine to play pingpong with the source package
<ogra> but it should have a branch indeed
<ogra> i'll talk to pete about that
<willvdl> not really, maybe as it's released
<ogra> oh, one other thing ... if you test, please give feedback about the new usplash :)
<juliux> ogra, ok
<willvdl> got a snpashot?
<ogra> kwwii made us aa new one :)
<willvdl> snapshot rather?
<ogra> not of a running one, but i can upload the pic, one moment
<willvdl> coool
<LaserJock> is the other artwork new yet?
<ogra> http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/usplash_1024_768.png
<ogra> nope, not yet
<LaserJock> k, I just wondered
<LaserJock> hmm, I like the usplash
<juliux> nice usplash
<ogra> ken will develop an ubuntu theme weher we will just apply color changes as i understoofd his plan
<LaserJock> the lettering looks a little too "fuzzy" for me but I love the logo
<ogra> i'm currently hacking on svg support for ldm ...
<LaserJock> doh
<ogra> LaserJock, you need to scale it right :)
<willvdl> LaserJock, zoom in
<LaserJock> I just needed to get it at 100%, my browser was shrinking it
<willvdl> as you mentioned it, I thought the same thing :)
<LaserJock> ok, yeah, I really like it
<willvdl> snap
<ogra> we have a nice redish progressbar for that ...
<willvdl> same style?
<ogra> same style as ubuntu
<ogra> just a different color
<willvdl> I'm not mad about the 6.10 progress bar
<ogra> test the herd4 liveCD :P
<ogra> there you can see it in action
<willvdl> ogra, I wish. bandwidth is a commodity here :)
<LaserJock> willvdl: I didn't like it either
<willvdl> fortunately I sit next to marilize so I can steal CDs :)
<ogra> willvdl, you should get a cdimage mirror to the hbd office ...
<ogra> rsyncs are cheaper than downnloads
<willvdl> ogra, there is one but that's another story. perhaps not in here :)
<ogra> ok :)
<willvdl> I guess we're in artwork?
<ogra> well, i guess that was artwork
<ogra> unless someone else has anything to show :)
<ogra> i'll talk to colin after herd4 if we can get the usplash pic into the CD bootscreen as well
<willvdl> is that guy on https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuArtwork/Palette modelled on Pete? :)
<ogra> that urgently needs an update
<ogra> thats from pete and his wife afaik
<willvdl> looks a bit like him. if you squint jsut right
<willvdl> ogra, I presume the motd thingy will wait a bit?
<ogra> i'll look into it ... might be only a trivial confiog switch in gdm
<ogra> if not it has to wait, yes
<ogra> really depends how big that change might be
<willvdl> the icons that get shipped, how are they genrally licensed?
<ogra> i think they are gpl ...
<ogra> not the best for icons
<ogra> let me look it up ... one sec
<ogra> the debian package says GPL
<willvdl> so if I reuse on the wiki and the wiki is CC-BY-SA...
<ogra> F.A.Q:
<ogra> Q: What's Gartoon License?
<ogra> A: Starting 0.5 Gartoon lincensed under GPL (read GPL.txt)
<ogra> aha
<willvdl> I should then just make a reference/attribution where I reuse
* LaserJock loves licensing :-) *cough*
<willvdl> e.g. https://wiki.edubuntu.org/Edubuntu?action=show
<willvdl> anyhoo, above link is not "live" yet but is the culmination of work I've done trying to cleanup and organise our wiki pages
<willvdl> I think I need a "misc" section though
<LaserJock> I think nixternal is getting the edubuntu-docs MIR written up
<ogra> yippie
<LaserJock> we have a few bugs to work out in the yelp frontpage
<willvdl> now we jsut need to get the edubuntu-docs written up :)
<LaserJock> but mdke said he'll work on that
<ogra> i thought there is a lot
<LaserJock> we dep on ubuntu-docs
<willvdl> just kidding
<ogra> we just need them imported into the package
<LaserJock> so people will get all the Ubuntu documentation
<willvdl> LaserJock, I can't wait to see the end result cause then I reckon I'll finally get my head around the technicalities of TBH
<LaserJock> so the "bug" we need to fix is to remove About Ubuntu
<LaserJock> well, it'll be interesting
<LaserJock> but at least better than what we've had in the past
<willvdl> one option is to make the "About" page generic to all derivitives
<LaserJock> I think Feisty+1 will be more consistent
<willvdl> which could possibly make sense... less duplication on common features
<nixternal> LaserJock: I am looking at the MIR now, sorry but I have been so bogged down this week
<nixternal> Availability:  Not yet?
<LaserJock> the package *is* in Universe
<LaserJock> just not the final form
<ogra> ogra@edubuntu:~/packages/gartoon-0.5$ apt-cache madison edubuntu-docs
<ogra> edubuntu-docs |      0.4-1 | http://de.archive.ubuntu.com feisty/universe Packages
<ogra> edubuntu-docs |      0.4-1 | http://archive.ubuntu.com feisty/universe Sources
<ogra> if you need any repackaging etc, ping me
<LaserJock> I had a look at nixternal's packaging
<ogra> currently it installs two html files without any integration ...
<LaserJock> built and installed it too
<ogra> i'm fine with replacing whats there
<LaserJock> it seems good, it's based off of the ubuntu-docs source package
<ogra> LaserJock, if ayou are fine with the package feel free to upload
<LaserJock> nixternal: we should check the firefox page though
<LaserJock> ogra: k
<ogra> the firefox page is in edubuntu-artwork
<ogra> please check for other clashes as well
<nixternal> LaserJock: yes, I will work on that unless you want to rock it out quickly
<nixternal> LaserJock: whoa whoa
<LaserJock> nixternal: what?
<nixternal> LaserJock: the Firefox page is packaged with edubuntu-artwork
<nixternal> so you need to fix it there, unless it gets removed from there and incorporated into the edubuntu-docs package, which of course only makes sense
<ogra> its the only doc we have, it didnt really justify a whole package ...
<LaserJock> nah, -artwork is fine for now
<LaserJock> I don't want to "rock the boat" too much at this point
<ogra> well, it should move eventually ...
<ogra> but that must not be now if it generates extra work
<LaserJock> anyway, we can talk details later
<ogra> really up to you guys ... i'll do what the docteam says ;)
<LaserJock> we need a MIR and get it going
<ogra> right
<LaserJock> we can fix bugs a bit later
<ogra> just wipe the existing package with something with a higher version
<nixternal> LaserJock / ogra: we can always start out feisty+1 with the new implementation to save issues?
<ogra> as long as we keep a working upgrade path we can do everything ;)
<nixternal> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MainInclusionReportEdubuntuDocs <- LaserJock
<nixternal> oh shoot, I forgot that we were in a meeting right now :) I just connected from school
<nixternal> haha, I thought we were in #*-motu
<ogra> well, i dont think there is much left oin the plate for the meeting
<nixternal> LaserJock: that MIR is rough, but started :)
<LaserJock> nixternal: I can tweak it when you're done :-)
<nixternal> I am done for the time being if you want to tweak it a little
<ogra> so we could as well end it here and you can go on with packaging in #edubuntu :)
<nixternal> that is the first time I have done one, so I am expecting it to be horrible
<ogra> well, its our own package so there wont be any external CVEs or something ...
<nixternal> true
<ogra> and its only docs
<nixternal> ya, how dangerous can they be :)
<ogra> i dont expect problems with the MIR
<nixternal> oh wait, I have been working on them, so be careful ;p
<ogra> ujnless iwj complains about the format ...
<nixternal> sure, whatever that means
* nixternal whips out a perl script to decypher
<ogra> make sure to not use the plain template ... but put some formulation work in etc
<ogra> he wants to see some effort from a MIR writer
<nixternal> ahh
<ogra> so you show your intrest in the package
<ogra> (thats how he said it )
<nixternal> very well put I must say
<nixternal> gotta sell it!
<ogra> heh
<willvdl> stelis, are you in here?
<stelis> Yes
<willvdl> can you paste the link to the docs you're working on in here?
<willvdl> I lost it in my logs
<stelis> http://www.elsn.org/downloads/edubuntu/drafts/edubuntu-quickstart.html
<willvdl> thanks. sorry for the noise folks but I want to start integrating more from other peoples docs
<nixternal> stelis: you think that your docs could be incorporated into the current Edubuntu Handbook?
<nixternal> willvdl: I take it you are on it already :)
<willvdl> nixternal, time :)
<nixternal> woohoo, one less thing for me to worry over right now
<willvdl> but if things don't go according to pplan then I will have next week relatively free
<stelis> I'm not actually sure where the current HB is
<ogra> instead of https://wiki.edubuntu.com/EdubuntuLtsConfParams you should rather point to /opt/ltsp/i386/usr/share/doc/ltsp-client/examples/lts-parameters.txt.gz that will have always the recent supported list
<ogra> stelis, ^^
<stelis> I pulled a SVN before Xmas
<willvdl> https://wiki.edubuntu.org/Edubuntu/Documentation/Handbook
<stelis> ogra: Thanks
<nixternal> stelis: the docs are stored at https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos/trunk
<ogra> apart from that this is a really beautiful doc, kudos
<stelis> Thanks
<nixternal> more info can be found at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/Repository
<stelis> FWIW, the idea was to have a stopgap until there is a HB
<nixternal> stelis: yes, it is an awesome doc, and just what we needed! As it stands, this makes the handbook almost complete, then you are my new HERO!
<nixternal> hell, all the work you put into it, you are my hero :)
<stelis> I guess it depends how comprehensive you want your HB to be
<willvdl> stelis, as comprehensive as possible
<nixternal> stelis: we shall leave that up to willvdl, I am just a docmonkey
<willvdl> as as many audience as possible.
<willvdl> v. ambitious
<stelis> This Quickstart is enough to get somebody going
<nixternal> they feed me bananas and I type, quite horribly I might add
<stelis> The text is complete enough as is
<stelis> Bananas are good :)
<willvdl> nixternal, as long as you can fix my broken links I'm happy
<nixternal> willvdl: what broken links?
<willvdl> you'll see
<nixternal> lol
<willvdl> my docbook is still rusty and frayed
<nixternal> ahh
<willvdl> stelis, I wanted to this week but hopefully next week I can dedicate hours to integrating your stuff
<stelis> OK.
<willvdl> now that I've got the wiki under wraps
<stelis> FWIW, this works as a standalone
<stelis> So you could just add screenshots
<stelis> I'm conscious that time is short
<stelis> But feel free to use it as you need
<stelis> There's some other pieces in the same directory
<willvdl> stelis, thanks to you we now have options
<stelis> I don't have lots of time myself
<willvdl> I will, hopefully, up until march
<stelis> But I could write up some Release Notes or a few sections of this and that
* ogra looks up "lots of time" in his dictionary
<willvdl> nixternal, who normally does our finals for the release notes?
<nixternal> willvdl: dunno, but I can probably work something out for you since I do the Kubuntu ones
<willvdl> I got very confused with the old releases: there where wiki versions, docbook ones, release notes, install notes, release announcements...
<willvdl> ogra, clearly you have enough time to do that :)
<ogra> :P
<willvdl> ok, cool. I'll work something out with stelis and find a path of least resistance
<willvdl> shall we wrap up?
<ogra> yeah
<willvdl> just want to punt my mockup for https://wiki.edubuntu.org/Edubuntu?action=show again
<willvdl> shamelessly :)
<willvdl> I will work on maing it easier and easier to read as we go
* ogra does the same with  http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UES-Sevilla :)
<willvdl> something like henrik's testing page
<ogra> yep
<ogra> ok, any other business ?
<willvdl> and since we normally end with community: UES Sevilla!!!
<ogra> going once
<ogra> going twice
<ogra> COME TO SEVILLA !!!!
<ogra> adjourned !
<ogra> thanks all
<willvdl> sweet.
<willvdl> sorry for late minutes.. I'll get these ones in as well
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 15 Feb 05:00 UTC: IRC Operators | 15 Feb 21:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 17 Feb 15:00 UTC: Xubuntu | 21 Feb 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 22 Feb 16:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 24 Feb 17:00 UTC: Ubuntu US LoCo Team Mentor
#ubuntu-meeting 2007-02-15
* dungodung will be sleeping during the 15 Feb 05:00 UTC: IRC Operators
<dungodung> :(
<superuser> :(
<dungodung> well, I won't miss much... I'm an op on a minor, peripheral channel
<Hobbsee> @schedule sydney
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Australia/Sydney: 15 Feb 16:00: IRC Operators | 16 Feb 08:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 18 Feb 02:00: Xubuntu | 21 Feb 23:00: Edubuntu | 23 Feb 03:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 25 Feb 04:00: Ubuntu US LoCo Team Mentor
* Hobbsee thought that was over by now
<Hobbsee> oh, 4pm....
<beuno> @Buenos Aires
<beuno> @BuenosAires
<beuno> now, how did that work..
<dungodung|sleep> @schedule Buenos Aires
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Argentina/Buenos_Aires: 15 Feb 02:00: IRC Operators | 15 Feb 18:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 17 Feb 12:00: Xubuntu | 21 Feb 09:00: Edubuntu | 22 Feb 13:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 24 Feb 14:00: Ubuntu US LoCo Team Mentor
<beuno> thank you very much dungodung|sleep
<dungodung|sleep> np. sleep now
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: IRC Operators | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 15 Feb 21:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 17 Feb 15:00 UTC: Xubuntu | 21 Feb 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 22 Feb 16:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 24 Feb 17:00 UTC: Ubuntu US LoCo Team Mentor
<elkbuntu> can i request we wait 5 mins please. i've only just got home and i need to get a drink
<Hobbsee> elkbuntu: sure.  until Seveas actually materializes, we cant do much anyway
<elkbuntu> this is true
<mneptok> we could start the dumming and watch fires.
<mneptok> +r
<mneptok> well, "duwwing," too.
* Hobbsee sets mneptok on fire, to start with
<Madpilot> I see that mneptok is using his Keyboard of Incoherency this evening. That'll make the meeting more interesting.
<Hobbsee> doesnt he always, though?
<Madpilot> sometimes he's just pasting song lyrics
<ajmitch> oh there's a meeting
* ajmitch had better go back to lurking
<mneptok> sorry. the "keyboard of incoherency" was actually "keyboard with a penny in it"
<Madpilot> ajmitch, eventually it will be a meeting. Currently it's just overflow from the den of insanity that is #ubuntu-ops
* Hobbsee attacks Madpilot with the Long Pointy Stick of DOOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 
* Madpilot thanks Hobbsee for proving his point about insanity.
<Hobbsee> hah
<ajmitch> Madpilot: that's ok, I used to lurk in there as well
<mneptok> Hobbsee: when are you putting that stick under a CC license?
<Madpilot> oh, and I'll thank the Academy, too. Apparently it's the done thing.
<Hobbsee> mneptok: godo question
<Madpilot> it's LPSoD licensed, isn't it?
<ajmitch> sigh, licence proliferation
<mneptok> you were just attacked with a trademarked stick
<Madpilot> LPSoDL - the Long Pointy Stick of DOOM License
<mneptok> copyrightintoyourhead
<Madpilot> we're spamming -meeting, aren't we?
<elkbuntu> yep
<ajmitch> nalioth!
<nalioth> ajmitch!
<sid> elkbuntu: Did those poll results ever go public?
<elkbuntu> sid, not yet. this is not an appropriate place to discuss it either
<Jucato> oh?
<Jucato> oops sorry
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 15 Feb 21:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 17 Feb 15:00 UTC: Xubuntu | 21 Feb 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 22 Feb 16:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 24 Feb 17:00 UTC: Ubuntu US LoCo Team Mentor | 25 Feb 17:00 UTC: LoCo Team
<dungodung> so it wasn't a big meeting, I see
<tsmithe> boredandblogging, hi. what's your blog address, then?
* tsmithe is testing his new blog crawler
<boredandblogging> http://boredandblogging.com
<boredandblogging> nothing worthwhile though, lol
* tsmithe doesn't care
<mdz> good evening
<ajmitch> hi mdz
<ajmitch> devel team meeting, is it?
<pochu> @now
<Ubugtu> Current time in Etc/UTC: February 15 2007, 20:48:40 - Next meeting: Ubuntu Development Team in 11 minutes
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: Ubuntu Development Team | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 17 Feb 15:00 UTC: Xubuntu | 21 Feb 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 22 Feb 16:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 24 Feb 17:00 UTC: Ubuntu US LoCo Team Mentor | 25 Feb 17:00 UTC: LoCo Team
<mdz> ajmitch: yes
<mdz> roll call
<bdmurray> present
<_kyle> batman! er. nope, just me.
<Riddell> hola
<rtg> here
<_kyle> (connected xchat since my ssh is all laggy)
<kwwii> howdy all
<mvo__> hello
<mdz> cjwatson,heno,doko,BenC,pkl,asac,tkamppeter,Keybuk,pitti,fabbione,tfheen,iwj,ogra: ping
<doko> pong
<heno> pong
* ogra waves
<Keybuk> _o/
<asac> hi
<pitti> hello
<cjwatson> here, just making coffee
<mdz> BenC: is pkl around?
<BenC> mdz: checking
<tfheen> pong
<BenC> cjwatson: coffee, sounds good
<mdz> cjwatson: expecting till?
<mdz> fabbione: ping
<BenC> he's coming
<mdz> ok, moving along
<mdz> rtg: you started last week, but this is your first weekly meeting. welcome!
<asac> rtg: hi!
<rtg> Thanks.
<Riddell> hi rtg
<fabbione> pong
<pitti> hello rtg!
<fabbione> sorry i am late
<mdz> rtg is Tim Gardner, who I believe remains the newest addition to the kernel team
<ogra> hey rtg
<mvo> hello!
<mdz> agenda is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DevelTeamMeeting20070215
<mdz> any last-minute additions?
<cjwatson> mdz: Till didn't say he wasn't coming
<mdz> ok, moving right along
<mdz> pitti: you're up
<pitti> #
<pitti> Do we want to use XSBC-Original-Maintainer (which works, modulo the small bug fix that is already prepared), or teach dpkg about a proper 'Original-Maintainer:' field?
<mdz> there was some discussion about this by mail
<pitti> so, the point is, XSBC- looks ugly, but works
<iwj> We should use XSBC- for at least the next while, as I say.
<pitti> the .debs, .dsc etc. have Original-Maintainer, so for users it's fine
<tfheen> adding the field is trivial, but I don't know if Debian will take it.
<iwj> Well, let's offer them the patch and if and when they take it and it's widely deployed we can switch to it.
<pitti> so the effect won't change if we later teach dpkg about the new field
<tfheen> iwj: why?  If we actually think it's a good idea, we should just go with O-M, IMO.
<iwj> There's no harm of XSBC- in the meantime except that it's slightly ugly.
<iwj> tfheen: Because people often run source-processing tools not on the distrorelease.
* pitti agrees to iwj here, especially if we have tool support for making these changes
<iwj> ... that they are intended for.
<iwj> I said all this by email ...
<cjwatson> where was this e-mail conversation?
<tfheen> distro-team@, iirc
<pitti> replies to my activity report
<cjwatson> ah, yes
<iwj> Should it have been in ubuntu-devel ?
<cjwatson> OTOH, failing to use XSBC- only has the consequence of an ugly error message, not build failures, IIRC
<tfheen> cjwatson: correct.
<mdz> iwj: yes
<iwj> mdz: OK
<pitti> cjwatson: and that the field doesn't actually appear in the debs/dsc?
<tfheen> iwj: then I say we can just add it to our dpkg and those who don't use our dpkg can use XSBC-.
<cjwatson> pitti: sure, but whatever
<iwj> cjwatson: Err, using O-M when the tool doesn't support it means the field gets lost.
<pitti> cjwatson: but that'd miss the point?
<cjwatson> iwj: does that actually matter?
<cjwatson> all we've promised to do is have it in our archive
<iwj> tfheen: But the question is _what do we put in our packages_, which other people besides us touch too.
<tfheen> pitti: the debs will be fine as they're built on the autobuilder.
<mdz> there's no reason to use O-M in Debian
<pitti> right, just .dsc
<cjwatson> it makes no technical difference to the package
<iwj> cjwatson: All universe maintainers are now to be forbidden from running dpkg-foobarpackage other than on feisty ?
<cjwatson> oh, that's true, it would make a difference to the .dsc
<cjwatson> in that case I agree with Ian
<mdz> iwj: do you develop on Feisty?
<iwj> mdz: Yes, but I run dpkg-signchanges on sarge.
<tfheen> signchanges is irrelevant; -gencontrol is the interesting one.
<iwj> tfheen: Yes, but this is turning into a complex set of rules that everyone has to get right.
<cjwatson> I have in the past built Ubuntu source packages on Debian (quite regularly) and I see no reason why we should break that
<iwj> XSBC- just works and we should use it.
<tfheen> except it doesn't work correctly due to a bug?
<iwj> What cjwatson said.  Sometimes I don't have a feisty install to hand.
<pitti> tfheen: I have fixed that in my pending upload
<iwj> tfheen: The bug we can get fixed in etch even probably.
<pitti> well, cjwatson did the fix
<tfheen> pitti: oh sure, but the "you can't build packages on !feisty" argument applies until it actually is in other stable releases.
<pitti> tfheen: but the bug is irrelevant mostly, it only affects propagation to .debs, not to .dsc
<tfheen> "can't" here meaning "will not have a 100% compliant .dsc", nothing will actually break.
<pitti> tfheen: irrelevant for building source packages, that is
<iwj> And why oh why oh why are we having this argument by IRC ??  IRC is a terrible medium for arguments.
<tfheen> pitti: oh, ok.
* pitti actually prefers discussing stuff synchronously
* ogra too
* tfheen prefers IRC over email any day.
<cjwatson> I'm not hearing serious objections to XSBC-
<pitti> I'm still in favour of eventually supporting O-M, but that's something for later
<cjwatson> so I think we should do that and move on to the next of the several items on the agenda
<cjwatson> pitti: sure
<iwj> pitti: Yes.
<cjwatson> * Can we find a sane method that dch can use to tell apart main from universe packages? If so, we could add an automatic change of [Original-] Maintainer:.
<pitti> great
<cjwatson> mdz addressed that on distro-team@
<iwj> mdz was right.
<pitti> ok, so we set it to $DEBEMAIL?
<pitti> and warn if it's not m/ubuntu/?
<cjwatson> no, leave it alone
<Riddell> pitti: or kubuntu or edubuntu...
<cjwatson> often you want it to be the relevant team mailing list instead
<pitti> cjwatson: my q is about doing something if there's no O-M
<pitti> I'm fine with fixing it manually, it's just a bit cumbersome
<pitti> and, as doko noticed, pro/demotions will break the default ML values
<cjwatson> I don't think we should mess with debian/control (or even Maintainer in the .dsc) automatically. It's far too fragile.
<cjwatson> doko's point is valid but later on the agenda :-)
<doko> heh
<pitti> it's just closely coupled
<pitti> anyway, if noone is in favor of automatic changing, lets go on
<cjwatson> For main packages, should we rather use ubuntu-devel-discuss@ instead of ubuntu-devel@? If so, we need to change and sign off the spec.
<cjwatson> addressed on distro-team@ (yes)
<cjwatson> Do we need to get all packages fixed in Feisty? IOW, do we need mass-uploads or can we just slowly migrate the fields over time?
<pitti> that's done
<cjwatson> also addressed on distro-team@
<cjwatson> handling of addresses where source/binary are in different pockets; CORE address for packages in universe.
<pitti> not really
<Keybuk> some packages built in feisty do not have equivalents in Debian
<cjwatson> not really to which?
<pitti> I'd really like to discuss the schedule here
<Keybuk> so automatic modification would be wrong in that case
<iwj> If we do nothing special, all the packages will be updated by feisty+1, right ?
<pitti> cjwatson: slow/quick migration
<pitti> iwj: we need to modify debian/control, that won't happen automagically
<pitti> so, mdz and I had the compromise of fixing all 350-some main .debs for feisty
<cjwatson> I'm with mdz on this; we are way behind on our commitment and we need to get it done
<iwj> All of the .debs will be updated and not all of the .dscs, then ?
<pitti> and do the source-only and universe ones with the feisty+1 merge
<tfheen> iwj: not magically, no.  Just through churn.
<pitti> I think that's fair
<pitti> we have 750 main and > 1000 universe sources which need to be modified, and rebuilt by beta otherwise
<pitti> and if we get new X.org packages anyway, a good chunk of the 350 .debs will already be sorted out
<mdz> the source maintainer is much less visible, and unlikely to be noticed by users reporting problems with the package
<pitti> (explanation: fixing the .debs is a matter of pure rebuild)
<mdz> which is the source of the complaint
<pitti> so we'd get the dpkg-source check into feisty now, so that we do not continue to upload sources with wrong maintainers
<mdz> so fixing the remaining .debs is a solid incremental step toward finishing the job
<mdz> as is fixing dpkg-source
<pitti> ok, if we don't have further comments, I'll care for the rebuilds and take doko's gcc changes into account
<cjwatson> ok
<cjwatson> * handling of addresses where source/binary are in different pockets; CORE address for packages in universe.
<pitti> doko: ^ you need some rebuilds?
<Riddell> win 12
<pitti> I think for this only source packages matter
<Riddell> erk
<cjwatson> source/binary is irrelevant, as discussed on the list
<doko> pitti: yes, I'll send you the list; please start after GCC-4.1.2 is in the archive
<pitti> doko: ETA?
<doko> after the freeze ends. tfheen ?
<pitti> doko: ah, that's fine
<cjwatson> * Promotion/demotion invalidates the address.
<mdz> regarding promotion/demotion, I'm personally not fussed
<cjwatson> I suggest that somebody write a tool which points out the inconsistencies, and we can garden it from time to time
<mdz> this is much more about masking the original address than providing the best contact
<cjwatson> much like the other such tools we already have
<pitti> if people set it manually anyway, then we hopefully will get more specialized teams or individual maintainers anyway
<cjwatson> but I agree it is not urgent
<tfheen> doko: freeze ends tonight; It seems the current set of ISOs is good, so I'll release them tonight and thaw the archive, then send out the announcement tomorrow morning.
<mdz> they'll be fixed when rebuilt
<pitti> we actually need to rebuild such packages anyway for translation changes
<mdz> ok then, it's only an issue for the source, so even less urgent to change things
<doko> tfheen: just ping me when I can upload (if it's before bedtime)
<mdz> so we're all clear on debian-maintainer-field now?
<pitti> yes, sorry for the abundance of questions
<pitti> but this affects so many packages that we should get it right at the first shot
<mdz> agreed, thanks
<mdz> pitti: I answered you about apport-retrace on the list; I think it's very useful, but we're behind on a few higher-priority items where you might be able to help out if you have spare cycles
<pitti> right, got that
<mdz> pitti: did you already talk with Scott about your tasks?
<pitti> spare cycles go into bug fixing, but I'm happy to help out with specs where appropriate
<pitti> mdz: not yet, I was away in the evening, sorry
<cjwatson> * ISO release testing (Henrik Omma): I think we should decide before Beta whether we are going to actually use the Malone-based tracker. Are people comfortable with it or is the wiki better after all? Simon, Tollef: are you two leading beta release/testing together or do I have a key part in this (beyond the community-based contribution)?
<Riddell> it works well enough from my point of view
<heno> It seems to have worked fairly well today
<pitti> personally I found the wiki much better for getting an overview of the overall state, but bugs parallelize better
<ogra> ++
<cjwatson> heno: on the latter item, I'd like you to lead the testing side of this, since you've been making good progress with it so far
<heno> that is true
<tfheen> I'm much happier this time than the previous time.
<cjwatson> heno: let's talk about that on the phone tomorrow?
<cjwatson> tfheen: are bug comments from individual testers getting through to you effectively?
<heno> cjwatson: ok, s long as it's clear that I'm doing it
<mdz> pitti: can you think of a way to improve the overview using the bugs?
<heno> cjwatson: sure
<tfheen> cjwatson: we haven't really had many individual testers, but yes, I have subscribed to the product.
<cjwatson> heno: thanks, I appreciate it
<pitti> mdz: we could use bughelper to create a report
<mdz> heno described a scheme using the status field to provide a sort of overview, though of course it requires someone to maintain the state
<ogra> mdz, a generated table overview ?
<heno> people who post a result can update the state
<ogra> that would need to parse the bugtexts though
<heno> wejust need good etting of testers
<cjwatson> heno: I don't think that will happen in practice
<tfheen> pitti: I need to chat a bit with dholbach about bughelper, I guess; I really want to generate reports from malone and can't today.
<pitti> a mere matrix with the current bug states would already be helpful, I figure
<heno> to make sure they are clued in and committed
<tfheen> not just for ISO testing, but also for other release metics.
<cjwatson> and it would be best if the amount of education of testers required is as small as possible
<mdz> I don't see how bughelper helps, can you explain?
<heno> I envision just a small group of 'trusted' community testers this cycle
<heno> mdz: it can scrape useful state info from the bug pages
<cjwatson> I'm worried that we'll swamp a small group; it's a lot of work even for full-time staff
<pitti> mdz: I meant, using the bughelper library to find the bugs and get their states, and then cobbling together some HTML report
<heno> and present them in an html table
<pitti> heno: :)
<tfheen> cjwatson: yes, it should be possible to just jump in and test a single ISO without having to go through a big process to do so.
<mdz> what would that tell you which wouldn't be visible from the table on the iso tracker bug page?
<heno> so we get a non-editable 'wiki' page powered by the malone content
<ogra> the problem is that finer grained info like the different install variants is only in the bugtexts
<pitti> mdz: we could count number of testers, parse out the ok/fail comments, parse out bug numbers to make them clickable, etc.
<tfheen> mdz: the malone bug page is going to be unwieldy when we have the full test cases there, as we will for beta, RC and release.
<heno> ogra: no we will do separate bugs for those in later milestones
<ogra> ah, cool
<mdz> pitti: oh, I see, using the format conventions described in the docs
<mdz> it looked like some people were using those at least
<heno> so there will be very many tracker bugs
<heno> so an overview html page is a must really
<mdz> tfheen: no more unwieldy than the wiki page, and probably less
<heno> I think it would be worse tha the wiki
<heno> unless you filter by tags
<pitti> . o O { using an apport GUI to create a report with parseable standard syntax, yummy }
<cjwatson> perhaps we can brainstorm mad ideas by mail? :-)
<heno> but the bughelper hack should be easy
<heno> yep
<heno> I'll prepare something
<tfheen> but as I said, I'd really like to be able to pull statistics out of malone since I can't today and I'd love to for a release status page.
<heno> (email with ideas)
<cjwatson> ACTION: heno, tfheen, pitti etc. to discuss and prepare status overview page for ISO tests
<heno> tfheen: that's doable
<heno> ok, done :)
<mdz> [UbuntuSpec] increase-hwdb-participation (Sebastien Bacher): do we need a menu item for hwdb participation? that's something that is likely to be launched once only and will clutter the menu then
<mdz> the point here is that we want it to be obvious how to contribute to the database
<seb128> and we want to keep the menus or shell not too long if possible
<pitti> heads-up: right now we have an one-time notification pointing people to the menu item
<mdz> and we do want people to contribute again if their hardware changes
<seb128> because many items make them hard to use
<ogra> we discussed that the other day in -devel ... the most proper solution (having a button in the notofocation) braks the notofocation policy
<pitti> we can easily point people somewhere else
<ogra> meh ...
<seb128> well, there is a button to do that to hal-device-manager
* ogra goes for a typing course
<kwwii> why not put it in System-->Administration ?
<mdz> seb128: no one knows that is there
<pitti> no, no button in the notification, that'd be wrong
<seb128> we can point people to h-d-m
<ogra> right
<seb128> mdz: we display a notification bubble if I understood that correctly
<ogra> without the control center i agree ...
<seb128> mdz: we could point people to hal-device-manager
<tfheen> seb128: yes, we do that today already.
<mvo> we already have a lot of icons in the control-center, I don't think it will get worse
<ogra> yep we do
<heno> we could mention it on the default firefox homepage
<seb128> mvo: we try to reduce the list
<heno> (if people look at that)
* mvo is not sure if people actually read that ff page
<seb128> mvo: we should not start accepting random icons because the list is already long, that's not a reason to make it longer
<pitti> another option is to just open hwdb-client right away on first login
<seb128> what would be wrong with pointing people to h-d-m?
<cjwatson> pitti: ugh
<pitti> but I understand that contradicts our 'no wizards' policy
<ogra> i'm not opposing to point to h-d-m ... if users dont have to wait for control-center and have to search there
<mvo> I think the new g-c-c concept does not work very well, but that is a different discussion
<mdz> heno: that's not a bad idea
<pitti> cjwatson: ugh indeed :/
<seb128> grrraa
<heno> I agree with seb128 on this, and icon for a one-time item is a bit much
<seb128> please stop the constant ranting on the shell
<seb128> I already said we will switch back to menu
<tfheen> seb128: I think the new shell is much better.
<mdz> to return to the issue at hand...
<heno> we could make it quite prominent on the FF page
<seb128> (that's especially for ogra and mvo who keep telling that every day)
* mvo hugs seb128
<pitti> heno: you just cannot open programs with HTML links
<ogra> right ..., thats why i'm not opposed to drop the menu item completely
<mdz> we're concerned with the use case "I want to submit my system profile to the Ubuntu hardware database"
<ogra> seb128, ^^^
<pitti> ogra: people have to find it again if HW changes
<seb128> tfheen: it still has some bugs and could be faster, it's likely to be default upstream next cycle
<heno> pitti: right but you can show a screenshot with colourful arrows :)
<ogra> pitti, but then they have seen it once at least
* pitti thinks that in fact most of the things in c-c will only be used once, so *shrug*
<seb128> mdz: well, that mean the menu item will be used like once a year (you don't change config every week usually)
<seb128> mdz: and it'll be in the way the rest of the time
<heno> pitti: actually you can, with a custom mime-type
<mdz> seb128: agreed, it's rarely used
<pitti> seb128: neither do users change their theme or keyboard layout
<seb128> pitti: those are configuration tools
<pitti> heno: urgh :)
<seb128> pitti: and people might play with theme more often than you think
<heno> filename.launch-hwdb :)
<pitti> seb128: sure
<seb128> but that's not the point
<mdz> seb128: the data we collect from it is very important, and if users don't see it, they don't participate.  I agree with your concerns about the menu, but how else can we present it where users will discover it?
<seb128> I'm just trying to keep the list of menu or shell items not too long
<pitti> another idea:
<seb128> mdz: we have a notify bubble, pointing them to hwdb menu item or hal-device-manager is about the same no?
<pitti> how'bout adding it to update-notifier? people would get a tray icon and if they click on it, it'd open h-c, and then the icon would disappear
<mvo> we could do it as a post-install note
<seb128> mdz: h-d-m is also to the menu and it has a button to run hwdb-client
<heno> can we make it very prominent during testing and much less at release time?
<mvo> u-n has support for this already
<mvo> it can even include scripts
<ogra> i really think it doesnt needed an extra menu entry ... and if i remember correctly that was the initial polcy when mdz assigned the project to me ...
<tfheen> pitti: and then readd the icon if the hardware changes?
<pitti> tfheen: that's harder
<ogra> i had a bunch of whishlist bugs that made it appear
<heno> the people who run feisty are the most likely to participate anyway
<seb128> pitti: well, that's what I said before, use a notification area icon, that would work too
<tfheen> pitti: not really; store a md5sum of the lspci output or something somewhere and check that on login.
<pitti> tfheen: but it would bring people to it once, and then we can hide it behind h-d-m and explain where it is in the icon notificatino
<mdz> ogra: it originally had a menu entry; it was removed during one of the menu cleanups
<pitti> tfheen: and usb, and there it gets trickier
<mdz> pitti: isn't that what the increase-hwdb-participation spec was meant to be?
<ogra> mdz, the first hoary version only had the h-d-m button ... in breezy i added the menu entry mainly because kubuntu complained ...
<mdz> pitti: notify the user once?
<pitti> mdz: it talks about a notification, not a tray applet
<heno> When we get a slideshow in ubiquity we can show it there
<mvo> pitti: we have the post-install notifications in u-n, we could use those
<pitti> mdz: from a notification we cannot launch programs, but from a tray icon we can
<mvo> they are there and ready (and support scripts)
<pitti> well, we can launch programs from notifications, but it is *very* ugly usability-wise
<cjwatson> this item is dragging on somewhat
<mvo> the u-n post-install hooks have a dialog that contains a button. nice text + button
<seb128> let's use that then
<pitti> mvo: sounds good
<tfheen> a problem with regular notifications is they disappear, so if you don't pay attention, they go away and you can't get them back
<tfheen> so interacting with notifications is bad.
<mdz> so long as the user is inivted to participate when they install, I'm happy
<mdz> either launching the client directly or providing simple instructions
<mvo> pitti: lets check this out tomorrow together, ok?
<pitti> mvo: yes
<mdz> opening device manager and finding the button is not simple enough, though
<mdz> ACTION: mvo/pitti to review options for hwdb notifications
<mdz> moving on
<pitti> mdz: the install note could explain where it is
<mdz> Maintenance "costs" of python debug packages (Matthias Klose)
<pitti> (this was about maintaining a large delta from Debian for the -dbg packages, since Debian is frozen ATM, and hasn't decided yet whether to adopt it)
<pitti> and the debian/rules code for that is nontrivial
<pitti> doko: ping ^
<doko> yes, the thing is, if we want/can afford it. it's a diff for every package we want to build extensions
<doko> in debug mode.
<cjwatson> I thought we had discussed this already
<mdz> I'm afraid I don't have the context
<cjwatson> how many packages are involved?
<doko> about 50 in main
<cjwatson> in fact I'm sure I spoke with you about this before and said yes
<mdz> oh, this is for debug packages for extension modules?
<cjwatson> 50? yes
<doko> ok
<mdz> why doesn't the autobuild infrastructure handle that?
<cjwatson> mdz: needs two build passes
<mdz> oh, right
<doko> debug mode needs a separate compilation
<mdz> ok, sounds like this has been resolved anyawy
<mdz> anyway
<mdz> Document bug escalation to release team (Tollef Fog Heen): Started, but I want to agree with Simon about it before writing it down on the wiki.
<mdz> this sounds like an action, not an agenda item
<doko> ok, was just brought up today on #u-d
<mdz> anything to discuss?
<mdz> tfheen: ?
<tfheen> mdz: no, I'm not sure why it ended up on the agenda.
<cjwatson> tfheen: write it down first, then discuss it. :-)
<mdz> ok, moving on
<tfheen> I should have taken it off; sorry.
<cjwatson> scott's/my fault for it ending up there.
<mdz> iwj/asac/pitti: firefox ready to go?
<asac> waiting for unfreeze
<iwj> I spoke to asac in quite a bit of detail.
<Keybuk> tfheen: you listed it under "Agenda Items" :p
<asac> i will go one more time and polish changelog but then pitti will sponsor upload :)
<tfheen> Keybuk: I must have been asleep; sorry.
<cjwatson> asac: (you don't need to wait for the freeze to end in order to have an upload made)
<mdz> asac: note that it can be uploaded during the freeze, and will just wait in the queue
<mdz> in fact that's preferred
<pitti> asac: will do after the meeting
<asac> hmmm ... thanks ... didn't know that ... misunderstood pitti then :)
<cjwatson> the queue in question is visible at http://people.ubuntu.com/~tfheen/unapproved-queue/feisty/
<mdz> ACTION: upload firefox (pitti, asac)
<tfheen> Keybuk: actually, it was under "action items", not "agenda". :-P
<mdz> discuss adept-notifier integration of apport (pitti/Riddell)
<pitti> so, we did that, and Riddel meant, that it should be fairly straightforward to port the update-notifier code to adept-notifier
<mdz> has that happened?
<Riddell> nope
<pitti> and we definitively want to have it done
<Riddell> it's on my todo for next week
<pitti> mdz: the discussion, yes, not the porting
<mdz> Riddell: I meant the discussion
<Riddell> oh, yes, we discussed
<mdz> ok
<Keybuk> tfheen: sorry, then it was me that was asleep :p
<Riddell> and apport is on the herd 4 CDs
<mdz> iwj to write up summary of experiences debugging udev
<iwj> udev> I haven't made a proper writeup but I have a few replies to bug reports which document some of the udev debugging procedures and which would make a reasonable source text.
<mdz> Keybuk: ^^ I thought that was your todo?
<Keybuk> mdz: I asked iwj to summarise his thoughts as well
<iwj> He palmed it off on me, since I, err, volunteered.
<mdz> ah, ok
<Keybuk> more as a "how can we improve this?" rather than "what to do"
<Keybuk> the "what to do" is still mine
<mdz> and we already reviewed the bug escalation item
<mdz> tfheen: release readiness?
<Riddell> I'm good except for powerpc CDs
<Riddell> but I believe that's the case for ubuntu and edubuntu too
<ogra> me too except one ppc kernel bug
<mdz> oh, speaking of powerpc
<mdz> those are no longer release blockers ;-)
<Riddell> so we don't care :)
<tfheen> mdz: I'm putting together a list of indicators on how ready we are (bug trends, oversizedness, etc) which I am going to put into some tool and put that on a web page somewhere.
<Keybuk> <mdz> with all due respect, ...
<tfheen> I don't have any numbers to give you, but the current state is looking good.
<tfheen> herd 4 is slightly delayed, but this is due to external factors, not bugs popping up in the distro.
<Keybuk> the bit where they forgot to turn Soyuz back on?
<tfheen> slightly as in I am doing the release now and not 12 hours ago.
<Keybuk> or something else?
<tfheen> Keybuk: yes, that bit in particular.
<mdz> what's needed in terms of infrastructure changes for the powerpc transition?
<mdz> cdimage bits?
<cjwatson> we're going to start considering powerpc as part of ports, yes?
<tfheen> I'm not sure; Colin knows that bit of cdimage much better than I since he set it up.
<fabbione> moving ppc to ports as of debs is not going to be easy
<cjwatson> also actually moving it to ports.ubuntu.com, which will be Hard
<fabbione> cjwatson: probably impossible any time soon
<cjwatson> because that requires per-release mirroring
<mdz> cjwatson: yes
<cjwatson> fabbione: it's not impossible, it's just work
<mdz> I don't see any hurry with the .debs
<fabbione> cjwatson: it's difficult for how it works now
<cjwatson> fabbione: "impossible" means "cannot be done even if work goes into it". Don't exaggerate.
<mdz> but we should move it out of the standard cdimage set
<cjwatson> that's fairly easy
<fabbione> cjwatson: the split at the moment is done with 2 rsync set of filters and not via dists/.. so it's difficult at the moment
<cjwatson> yes, i.e. "work"
<cjwatson> ACTION: cjwatson to move powerpc out of standard cdimage set
<cjwatson> (ten minutes)
<tfheen> cjwatson: If possible, I'd like to do it together with you.
<cjwatson> sure
<cjwatson> Keybuk: ^-- add tfheen to that
<tfheen> I know the basic bits of cdimage, but knowing it better is good.
<cjwatson> (assuming you're collecting items)
<cjwatson> * Other business
<Keybuk> cjwatson: yup
<mdz> anything else outstanding?
<BenC> big pat on the back to everyone
<mdz> ok, thanks everyone and good night
<seb128> thank you mdz
<mdz> onward and upward
<pitti> thanks, fellows
<asac> thanks ... good night!
<mvo> good night!
<ogra> thanks
<BenC> thanks everyone!
<seb128> 'night
<cjwatson> next time let's have less discussion in the meeting. :-)
<fabbione> night everyone
<pkl_> good night
<doko> good night
<kwwii> night all...that was, erm, fun
<bdmurray> night all
#ubuntu-meeting 2007-02-16
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 17 Feb 15:00 UTC: Xubuntu | 21 Feb 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 22 Feb 16:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 24 Feb 17:00 UTC: Ubuntu US LoCo Team Mentor | 25 Feb 17:00 UTC: LoCo Team | 27 Feb 20:00 UTC: Technical Board
<stgraber> @schedule Zurich
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Zurich: 17 Feb 16:00: Xubuntu | 21 Feb 13:00: Edubuntu | 22 Feb 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 24 Feb 18:00: Ubuntu US LoCo Team Mentor | 25 Feb 18:00: LoCo Team | 27 Feb 21:00: Technical Board
<popey> Mez: tag!
<Rinchen> @new york
<Rinchen> @nyc
<Rinchen> ok then. :-)
<cjwatson> @schedule America/New_York
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/New_York: 17 Feb 10:00: Xubuntu | 21 Feb 07:00: Edubuntu | 22 Feb 11:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 24 Feb 12:00: Ubuntu US LoCo Team Mentor | 25 Feb 12:00: LoCo Team | 27 Feb 15:00: Technical Board
<cjwatson> Rinchen: ^--
<Rinchen> doh
<Rinchen> Thanks Col
<Rinchen> Running on 3 hours of sleep here at Ubucon in NY
<elkbuntu> sleep? at a conf?
<Rinchen> hehe yeah.  Plane was late so I got to bed at 3:30am and got up at 7am  so 3.5 hours
<elkbuntu> you're *so* spoiled
<Rinchen> hehe
<Rinchen> I'm sitting next to Belinda Lopez so I *am* spoiled. :-)
<Rinchen> we're on #ubucon ..some of us at least.
<elkbuntu> meanwhile, 3am approaches here so i should sort of go to bed myself. try to not like enjoy yourself there too much, you'll make me jealous and cry
<Rinchen> ;-)
<elkbuntu> see! you're already acting smug!
<Seveas> Rinchen, please tell belinda that I am waiting for photos and video from geneva :)
<elkbuntu> yes!
<elkbuntu> my life will not be complete until i have seen these
<Rinchen> Seveas, she says "Hi!" and says that she owes them to you and Mark VDB
<juliux> hey Seveas
<elkbuntu> anyway, we're spamming meeting logs here, (oops!) g'nite
<Rinchen> yeah, I'm over in #ubucon for related. Cheers
<Seveas> hi juliux
<lotusleaf> Kubuntu r00ls j00
<gnomefreak> @schedule
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: 17 Feb 15:00: Xubuntu | 21 Feb 12:00: Edubuntu | 22 Feb 16:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 24 Feb 17:00: Ubuntu US LoCo Team Mentor | 25 Feb 17:00: LoCo Team | 27 Feb 20:00: Technical Board
<gnomefreak> @schedule new_york
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/New_York: 17 Feb 10:00: Xubuntu | 21 Feb 07:00: Edubuntu | 22 Feb 11:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 24 Feb 12:00: Ubuntu US LoCo Team Mentor | 25 Feb 12:00: LoCo Team | 27 Feb 15:00: Technical Board
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 17 Feb 15:00 UTC: Xubuntu | 21 Feb 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 21 Feb 16:00 UTC: Kernel Team | 22 Feb 16:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 24 Feb 17:00 UTC: Ubuntu US LoCo Team Mentor | 25 Feb 17:00 UTC: LoCo Team
<Seveas> gnomefreak, it now also works as simply new york
<Seveas> @schedule new york
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/New_York: 17 Feb 10:00: Xubuntu | 21 Feb 07:00: Edubuntu | 21 Feb 11:00: Kernel Team | 22 Feb 11:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 24 Feb 12:00: Ubuntu US LoCo Team Mentor | 25 Feb 12:00: LoCo Team
#ubuntu-meeting 2007-02-17
<pochu> @now
<Ubugtu> Current time in Etc/UTC: February 16 2007, 23:15:21 - Next meeting: Xubuntu in 15 hours 44 minutes
<juliux> @schedule berlin
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Berlin: 17 Feb 16:00: Xubuntu | 21 Feb 13:00: Edubuntu | 21 Feb 17:00: Kernel Team | 22 Feb 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 24 Feb 18:00: Ubuntu US LoCo Team Mentor | 25 Feb 18:00: LoCo Team
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: Xubuntu | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 21 Feb 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 21 Feb 16:00 UTC: Kernel Team | 22 Feb 16:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 24 Feb 17:00 UTC: Ubuntu US LoCo Team Mentor | 25 Feb 17:00 UTC: LoCo Team
<highvoltage> so			
<cbx33> highvoltage, ?
<highvoltage> cbx33: meant to ping somerville32, my connection just went a bit dodgy there for a while
<cbx33> hehe
<somerville32> Oh right
<somerville32> Meeting time :)
<somerville32> I've been away in the hospital for the last little while so I'm a bit disorientated.
<somerville32> Luckily they let me come home for a weekend :)
<highvoltage> nice
<highvoltage> how's janimo doing? been a while since I heard from him
<somerville32> I heard RL is getting to him
<somerville32> ie. consuming more and more time
<somerville32> I've never seen him on IRC
<highvoltage> ah
<somerville32> Just correspondence via e-mail
<highvoltage> yeah, email seems the best way to stay in touch
<highvoltage> somerville32: did you get any other pongbacks for the xubuntu meeting?
* somerville32 nods.
<somerville32> Errmm... not yet
<somerville32> lol
<highvoltage> :)
<somerville32> This time has never really been too good
<somerville32> We might need to change it
<somerville32> The wednesday meetings tend to get more people
<highvoltage> seems so, yes
<highvoltage> for some people weekends seem to be better sometimes
<highvoltage> perhaps alternate it?
<somerville32> We do, Wedo
<somerville32> Wednesday and Saturday
<highvoltage> d'oh!
* highvoltage has been out of touch with xubuntu meetings
<somerville32> Hopefully a few more people show up because there is a concrete agenda for today
<highvoltage> I would probably be away now if I didn't get a burn on my arm from my motorbike today
<highvoltage> but I'll make a point of being here more often for the meetings
<somerville32> Awesome :)
<cbx33> how many people are involved in xubuntu...if you don't mind my asking
<somerville32> Tough question
<somerville32> 4-6 different people, I'd say
<highvoltage> as far as I understand, janimo packages most of the core packages, and then there's a cloud of xubuntu around that
<highvoltage> the xfce packages from xubuntu are going on the second edubuntu cd as well
<somerville32> Janimo, Gpocentrek, Crimsun, and myself too most of the packaging stuff
<somerville32> s/too/do
<highvoltage> that might help xubuntu in the long run
<somerville32> :D
<somerville32> Thats pretty cool
<somerville32> How is Edubuntu doing with testing?
<cbx33> highvoltage, AWESOME
<somerville32> Thats someone we're struggling with
<hyper_ch> may I ask something?
<cbx33> testing it always hard
<somerville32> hyper_ch, Sure :)
<hyper_ch> what I wonder is the following: When I install Ubuntu (for example) and then do sudo aptitude install xubuntu-desktop --> why isn't it the same as when I install xubuntu directly?
<highvoltage> somerville32: cbx33 is probably edubuntu's most prominent tester, probably followed by myself
<highvoltage> somerville32: well, except from ogra, that is
<cbx33> indeed
<cbx33> I test, but I suppose I dev more and more lately
<highvoltage> somerville32: some schools also switch to the next version before release, giving good feedback
<kalikiana> hyper_ch, what is different exactly?
<hyper_ch> kalikiana: can't tell... it just doesn't look the same and hasn't the same appz installed as by a default installation of xubuntu
<hyper_ch> same goes if I install xubuntu and then add kubuntu-desktop
<hyper_ch> and so on
<grazie> somerville32: I was getting iinvolved with doing some xubuntu testing..i contacted jani about it..but now the ppc plus has been pulled it changes things :(
<kalikiana> is it possibly fewer apps as in 'required' but without some optional things? i didn't actually notice that.
<grazie> s/plus/plug/ ^^
* somerville32 nods.
<somerville32> Alrighty
<somerville32> Today we need to discuss artwork, documentation, and testing
<somerville32> I'd first like to focus on how we can improve testing to ensure that we get pre-releases out on time.
<somerville32> I get the impression that people do test but maybe don't report it?
<Jmak> Hey, I am here
<Jmak> Iam working on some icons
<somerville32> Hi Jmak
<somerville32> We're just discussing testing
<Jmak> I am testing feisty so far everything works great
<somerville32> I think to resolve the issue with testing, we simply need to promote it more and make sure we're promoting the correct way of reporting so that the pre-releases get released automatically
* cbx33 can proabably throw in a quick test of xubuntu feisty later in the week if that'll help
<somerville32> cbx33, It would be a big help :)
<grazie> somerville32: for myself...reports failures is fine...reporting passes is tedious..hence coverage is not recorded
<cbx33> ok
<highvoltage> somerville32: I test Xubuntu packages regularly for work purposes
<cbx33> I'll set it downloading now
<highvoltage> somerville32: but I don't report back on Xubuntu stuff
<highvoltage> somerville32: so I'll make a point of giving more feedback
<cbx33> install or desktop?
<cbx33> preference?
<somerville32> highvoltage, Maybe there are ways to facilitate communication with Edubuntu and Xubuntu with regarding to testing to prevent duplications of efforts.
<grazie> somerville32: I think a webform for test coverage would be good
<highvoltage> somerville32: absolutely
<somerville32> How do people find using launchpad?
<somerville32> Isn't that what we're suppose to be using these days?
<highvoltage> most complaints are about the UI and the licensing
<highvoltage> the UI is getting an overhaul, though
<highvoltage> some people have posted screenshots of the new lp interface
<somerville32> Linkie? :)
* highvoltage looks for it
<grazie> LP it's mostly good. However more assistance in what package to report against would be a big improvement
<grazie> *is
<highvoltage> egh, I can't find it, I read it on planet ubuntu about a week ago
<somerville32> Isn't there one specific package you're suppose to report ISO testing to?
<somerville32> s/package/product
<highvoltage> here's the post: http://www.ogmaciel.com/?p=321
<highvoltage> can't remember where I saw the screenshots though
<grazie> somerville32: yes, but when a bug is found bug report is also needed
<kalikiana> I may say that I do like launchpad. Two drawbacks: license and random errors, but I think they've been working on the errors.
<hyper_ch> btw, I have herd2 installed and it works good except that I was not able to run vmware
<highvoltage> hyper_ch: it's best to test with the latest alpha, it might be fixed in herd4 now
<highvoltage> hyper_ch: it might also be possible that you just need to install the kernal headers package, since vmware would not ship pre-compiled modules for feisty yet
<somerville32> Xubuntu has been unable to release herd 3 and herd 4
<hyper_ch> highvoltage: well, I haven't tested it so far again because I used the same /home as in edgy and the quicklauncher was replaced... feisty doesn't like the one from edgy and vice-versa
<somerville32> I'd like to be able to get the release candidate out
<highvoltage> oh wow, ok
<grazie> rync is excellent for keeping up to date!
<grazie> *rsync
<somerville32> grazie: The issue is that the distro team won't release it until we can prove we've tested the ISOs
<Jmak> somerville32: take a look at the new terminal icon, i just emailed to the list
* somerville32 nods at Jmak.
<somerville32> I dunno if it is because of lack of man power or lack of reports
<grazie> somerville32: what proof do they need?
<somerville32> Just people saying it worked
<somerville32> Same as the other distros
<grazie> somerville32: that can be arranged :)
<somerville32> Awesome.
<somerville32> Does Edubuntu have a testing team?
<highvoltage> somerville32: it does. it's fairly loose, there's a team in LP too
<highvoltage> somerville32: and a bunch of wiki pages for co-ordination
<somerville32> highvoltage, Do you find it effective?
<highvoltage> somerville32: it could be better, but so far it has worked well
<highvoltage> somerville32: we'll need something better as edubuntu becomes more complicated
<highvoltage> somerville32: the benefig that edubuntu has is, it uses the exact same desktop environment as ubuntu, so it gets a lot of free testing there
* somerville32 nods.
<highvoltage> somerville32: i think xubuntu's testing is even a bit more work than with edubuntu
<somerville32> The biggest thing is making sure the ISOs are tested for us
<grazie> somerville32: I suppose what I really meant is that saying that the iso's worked can easily be faked :(
<highvoltage> ah I see
<j1mc> somerville32, i had a great install experience with the nightlies leading up to herd4.
<somerville32> j1mc: Did you report that?
<j1mc> no  :(
<somerville32> hehe
<somerville32> See, we need that
<somerville32> We need to get an official testing team together maybe
<j1mc> i'm mostly on xubuntu-user mailing list.
<somerville32> j1mc: Would you like to head up an Xubuntu testing team?
<j1mc> what would it entail?  are there other examples of testing teams?
<somerville32> IT seems like you already do quite a bit of testing
<somerville32> So you'd just need to recruit a few more people to help you out and schedule regular testing
<somerville32> Especially just before a pre-release
<somerville32> So that we can release an image as the pre-release
<j1mc> sure.  i think i can do that.
<somerville32> What platforms can you test on?
<j1mc> just i386 right now.
<somerville32> Ok
<j1mc> i could get another machine pretty easily.  i volunteer for free geek chicago
* somerville32 nods.
<j1mc> we use xubuntu there, so they'd be willing to donate a machine.
* somerville32 nods.
<somerville32> So you'd just need to find a few dedicated individuals who could help test the other official platforms too
<somerville32> Awesome! :)
<j1mc> and then get them to report their results.  :)
<j1mc> hehe
* somerville32 hands j1mc the "Xubuntu ISO QA Manager" hat.
* j1mc accepts hat
<somerville32> I directed the testing for Herd 2 so we'll have to get together to chat ASAP.
<somerville32> I'll pass off everything I have to you
<j1mc> i think you set up a wiki about testing, so i'll want to look at that.
* somerville32 nods.
<somerville32> You'll also want to review all the ISO qa stuff you can find on the wiki for the other derivatives too to see how we can improve our processes.
<j1mc> i emailed you about xubuntu-docs, so you have my email address
<somerville32> Ok, aweosme
<somerville32> *awesome :)
<j1mc> ok
<j1mc> i work at a healthcare software company (just in the HR dept, though), but I know some QA people.  i can talk w/ them about what they do for QA, too.
<somerville32> Awesome :)
<somerville32> If things go well, your position might evolve into a more general Xubuntu QA guy if you'd like
<somerville32> Up to you :)
<somerville32> But for now, we need to focus on the ISO testing for upcoming Feisty Release (yea!!) :D
<j1mc> Sounds great, somerville32 (the initial testing for Feisty, that is)  :)
<j1mc> i'll be in touch with you
<somerville32> Perfect.
<somerville32> I feel much better about that now that there is someone leading that up
<somerville32> Thanks a bunch j1mc
<somerville32> Next on the agenda is Artwork, Jmak :)
<highvoltage> j1mc++
<hyper_ch> btw, I had one big problem with feisty... I have IDE and SDA drives and after the isntall everything was mixed up.... grub wasn't able to select/assign them correctly
<j1mc> haha  j1mc++  :)
<somerville32> j1mc: A good person to chat with is sfflaw as he heads up ubuntu-qa (which extends to Xubuntu)
<hyper_ch> but that's not xubuntu specific
<j1mc> thanks . . .  i'll note that.
<somerville32> Awesome.
<somerville32> Jmak, ping
<j1mc> Jmak, I think the new terminal icon looks great.
<somerville32> Jmak, Did any of the new artwork get uploaded yet?
<j1mc> Seems like Jmak is away . . . is there another agenda item that we can go to, and then come back to artwork?
<somerville32> Documentation
<j1mc> Yessss  :)
<Jmak> They are on the wike page https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Artwork/Feisty/Incoming
<j1mc> oh, there's Jmak.  back to artwork then.
<somerville32> But nothing has been uploaded to the repositories?
<Jmak> as far as know none
<somerville32> ok
<somerville32> I'll upload some of it
<Jmak> ok
<somerville32> Anything else you'd like to touch on jmak?
<j1mc> One thing I like about ubuntu's new GDM login is that the font has a bit more weight to it.  perhaps it's just bolded, but it looks more professional.
<Jmak> We have to decide on the use of icons
<Jmak> Tango?
<Jmak> Dropline looks great
<somerville32> link?
<Jmak> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Artwork/Feisty/Desktop/Incoming
* cbx33 now has the install iso
<cbx33> I'll give it a go
<somerville32> cbx33, Thanks
<somerville32> Dropline isn't bad
<Jmak> I like it too
<somerville32> Is it complete?
<Jmak> The most popular icon set on the gnome look org
<somerville32> Ok
<Jmak> Very complete
<j1mc> fwiw, i think the gion icon set looks great, too.
<somerville32> :)
<somerville32> Ok
<somerville32> Jmak: Do you have a "package" to present yet?
<Jmak> But that one not very complate
<Jmak> What package?
<somerville32> Like, you're going to have to present a package that includes all the changes you'd like to make so that we can see what it looks like
<somerville32> And then if it gets approved, it gets implemented
<Jmak> The artworks on the wiki are now, pretty complate
* alyn3d is away: Traduc o chestie...
<somerville32> It is hard to navigate and see what is decided
<somerville32> I dunno what should be changed to accomplish what you want
<somerville32> I just a few screenshots here and there
<Jmak> I already sent some time ago the xubuntu.xml to the list, I hope someone saved that too
<Jmak> From the wiki I will deleat all artworks except the final ones. Is that ok?
<somerville32> No
<somerville32> Please don't
<somerville32> Create a new wiki page that clearly outlines the gtk theme engine, theme, icons, etc.
<somerville32> Give each package a name
<Jmak> ok
<somerville32> And then organize it under that name
<j1mc> that sounds like a good approach
<somerville32> So, if there are a few "packages" that you'd like to propose
<somerville32> You might nickname them A, B, and C
<Jmak> all right
<somerville32> And then you'd create a wiki page for each package and have everything related to it on that page (or linked under that page)
<somerville32> Make sure to have a clear hierarchy when actually naming the pages
<somerville32> ie.
<somerville32> Xubuntu/Artwork/Proposed/A
<somerville32> Xubuntu/Artwork/Proposed/B
<somerville32> Xubuntu/Artwork/Proposed/C
<Jmak> ok
<somerville32> That way when we visit Xubuntu/Artwork/Proposed/A it shows us exactly how Xubuntu would look if we went with Option A
<somerville32> :)
<Jmak> sounds good
<somerville32> Unfortunately there is a deadline
<somerville32> Can you get this all done by the 22nd?
<somerville32> Thats 5 days
<Jmak> Sure I can do the weekend
<somerville32> Ok, perfect.
<somerville32> After 22nd, we will start voting
<Jmak> ok
<somerville32> March 15th is the FINAL deadline
<somerville32> We'll be decided on the artwork at the next meeting
<somerville32> *deciding
<Jmak> ok
<somerville32> So please be ready :)
<Jmak> sounds good
* somerville32 nods.
<somerville32> Ok, lets talk about Documentation
<Jmak> Now I go and start plannning it
<Jmak> see you next time
<j1mc> thanks, Jmak
<somerville32> j1mc: Re testing: Herd 5 will be released March 1st
<somerville32> I'd really like to see Herd 5 be released via the efforts of your new team :)
<j1mc> ok.  i'll do my best.
<somerville32> Ok, onto Documentation
<somerville32> We're doing better then Edgy
<somerville32> We've seen some small updates
<somerville32> But nothing substantial has been completed
<j1mc> i saw your spec up.  how does that stand?
<j1mc> i can't remember the name of it off hand.
<somerville32> That'll have to be deferred to Feisty+1
<somerville32> Where we'll really have to pull up our socks
<somerville32> For the rest of this release, we should focus on improving current documentation
<somerville32> ie. removing/updating outdated info
<somerville32> And adding in new stuff that is applicable
<j1mc> i've been filing just a few bug reports, but would like to file some more.
<somerville32> We simple do not have time to do the big overhaul that the other derivatives have done with their documentation.
* somerville32 nods.
<hyper_ch> btw, how do you select the appz that get added to the standard install?
<somerville32> seeds
<somerville32> j1mc: Are you interested in helping with documentation?
<j1mc> i am, but i don't know docbook xml.  i have the current ubuntu-docs files installed locally via subversion, though.
<somerville32> It is pretty easy
<somerville32> It isn't anything special
<somerville32> I think we should organize a documentation sprint
<j1mc> yeah . . .  i think that if i'm going to be doing the QA stuff, that i shouldn't try to take on too much writing of documentation.
<somerville32> Unfortunately, with me being in the hospital currently, I dunno when we could
<somerville32> j1mc: *nods*
<j1mc> my regular job is going to be pretty crazy between now and the end of the month.
<somerville32> :D
* somerville32 nods.
<j1mc> i plan to do a major bug reporting day, though.  checking links, looking for items that are outdated, etc.
<somerville32> Alrighty, so we'll try to set a date for a sprint
<somerville32> Where we all get together on IRC and work on the documentation
<somerville32> We can discuss the date on the xubuntu-devel and -users mailing list
<j1mc> would it be good to have the bugs filed prior to our sprint?
<somerville32> We'll certainly review the bugs at the sprint
<somerville32> So it would be a good way to create a todo list if you'd like
<somerville32> Infact, that would be a wonderful idea
<somerville32> It would make it easy for new people to find things to do
<j1mc> yes... it would help to focus our efforts
* somerville32 nods.
<somerville32> Alrighty
<somerville32> This has been a VERY productive meeting :)
* somerville32 is happy.
<j1mc> ok . . . i have tomorrow and monday off from work, so look for a bunch of bug reports from me over the next few days.
<somerville32> highvoltage, What do you call your guy's qa team?
<somerville32> :D
<somerville32> j1mc++
<j1mc> haha
<j1mc> is that it for documentation?
<somerville32> I guess so :)
<j1mc> ok, well, we'll get the bugs filed, and then . . . do you want to set a tentative date for the doc-sprint?
<somerville32> Well, I dunno when I'll be discharged from the hospital and I'd really like to be at the sprint
<somerville32> Not to say that you can't hold it without me
<j1mc> no, i think it would be best if you were there.
<somerville32> Alright
<somerville32> We can discuss it on the mailing list and I'll try my best to get there.
<j1mc> ok.  good luck getting better!
<somerville32> Thanks :)
<somerville32> If there isn't anything else...
* somerville32 declares the meeting over.
<j1mc> thanks, somerville32
<somerville32> btw
<somerville32> Documentation freeze is March 8th
<somerville32> Thats 19 days away
<j1mc> ok.  i'll be out of town on the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th
<j1mc> before that = work craziness + QA craziness.  i'll file a bunch of bugs this weekend.
<somerville32> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Testing
<hyper_ch> somerville32: do you use vmware?
<somerville32> nope
<j1mc> somerville32, thanks for the link
<somerville32> j1mc: I just created it.
<somerville32> You'll want to fill in the blanks
<j1mc> yep
<j1mc> still, thanks.
<somerville32> j1mc: What is your launchpad id?
<j1mc> jwcampbell
* j1mc thinks it is . . . goes to double-check
<j1mc> yes, that's correct
<somerville32> Ok
<somerville32> You're now an administrator of the xubuntu-testers team
<j1mc> thanks . . .
<j1mc> that was quick
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: Xubuntu | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 19 Feb 21:30 UTC: Mozilla Team | 21 Feb 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 21 Feb 16:00 UTC: Kernel Team | 22 Feb 16:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 24 Feb 17:00 UTC: Ubuntu US LoCo Team Mentor
<hyper_ch> if someone could check vmware... that would be great :)
<somerville32> j1mc: Please make sure that you stick to the wiki hierarchy
<somerville32> So, there are a few pages under Testing that you'll want to move around
<somerville32> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Testing/Dapper <-- Dapper Testing Results
<j1mc> ok
<somerville32> You might move that to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Testing/Archive/Dapper
<somerville32> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Testing/Current <-- Herd 2
<somerville32> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Testing/Short <-- Short test
<j1mc> if i have questions, i'll be in touch.
<somerville32> Have fun! :)
<somerville32> You're going to want to have clear hierarchies
* somerville32 giggles excitedly.
<somerville32> Awesome.
<j1mc> hehehe . . .
* j1mc giggles nervously.
* j1mc thinks he can handle it, though.
<somerville32> I'm sure you can
<highvoltage> somerville32: it's called edubuntu-testers
* somerville32 nods.
<highvoltage> (sorry for late reply, had to fetch my mom from work and take her home)
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 19 Feb 21:30 UTC: Mozilla Team | 21 Feb 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 21 Feb 16:00 UTC: Kernel Team | 22 Feb 16:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 24 Feb 17:00 UTC: Ubuntu US LoCo Team Mentor | 25 Feb 17:00 UTC: LoCo Team
#ubuntu-meeting 2007-02-18
<pochu> @schedule
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: 19 Feb 21:30: Mozilla Team | 21 Feb 12:00: Edubuntu | 21 Feb 16:00: Kernel Team | 22 Feb 16:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 24 Feb 17:00: Ubuntu US LoCo Team Mentor | 25 Feb 17:00: LoCo Team
<effie_jayx> @schedule caracas
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Caracas: 19 Feb 17:30: Mozilla Team | 21 Feb 08:00: Edubuntu | 21 Feb 12:00: Kernel Team | 22 Feb 12:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 24 Feb 13:00: Ubuntu US LoCo Team Mentor | 25 Feb 13:00: LoCo Team
<freeflying> @schedule shanghai
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Asia/Shanghai: 20 Feb 05:30: Mozilla Team | 21 Feb 20:00: Edubuntu | 22 Feb 00:00: Kernel Team | 23 Feb 00:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 25 Feb 01:00: Ubuntu US LoCo Team Mentor | 26 Feb 01:00: LoCo Team
<sid> @schedule New_York
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/New_York: 19 Feb 16:30: Mozilla Team | 21 Feb 07:00: Edubuntu | 21 Feb 11:00: Kernel Team | 22 Feb 11:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 24 Feb 12:00: Ubuntu US LoCo Team Mentor | 25 Feb 12:00: LoCo Team
<stgraber> @schedule Zurich
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Zurich: 19 Feb 22:30: Mozilla Team | 21 Feb 13:00: Edubuntu | 21 Feb 17:00: Kernel Team | 22 Feb 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 24 Feb 18:00: Ubuntu US LoCo Team Mentor | 25 Feb 18:00: LoCo Team
<Victor_> http://www.fourmigration.com/link.php?pid=15&cont=5
<Victor_> gpocentekHirvinenHuahuaJanC hoora_214  phanatic  popey  ryanakca  Seveas
<Victor_> http://www.fourmigration.com/link.php?pid=15&cont=5
<Victor_> http://www.fourmigration.com/link.php?pid=15&cont=5
<mr_pouit> Victor_, stop your flood and spam please ;)
<Victor_> ok
<Hobbsee> Victor_: are you a bot?
<elkbuntu> Hobbsee, serial spammer, kb if you can
<mr_pouit> Hobbsee, I think bots don't use chatzilla and a French ISP "wanadoo" :D
<Hobbsee> elkbuntu: i've already done so, everywhere i can that he's entered
<Hobbsee> elkbuntu: i dont have ops everywhere - Seveas does, i've told him repeatedly how this is bad, as he cant use them when he's asleep
<ompaul> worry not
<elkbuntu> any freenode staffer can do here also
<ompaul> the network is not going down
<Hobbsee> yes - funny, they're never around at this time, are they?
<elkbuntu> depends how hard you look
<Hobbsee> nothing on /stats p
<Victor_> http://www.fourmigration.com/link.php?pid=15&cont=5
<mr_pouit> Victor_, arrte ton flood, t'es lourd, hein
* Hobbsee test
<ompaul> !test
<elkbuntu> i think we're missing something here ;)
<ompaul> oui
<ompaul> but it is handy for flushing silly bots
<Seveas> Hobbsee, what's bad?
<elkbuntu> Seveas, see -meeting scrollback
<Hobbsee> Seveas: that you're hte only op in here, apart from any staffer
<Seveas> Hobbsee, I agree
<elkbuntu> oh, this is -meeting.. hehe oops
<Hobbsee> Seveas: when will you fix it then, please?  :)
<Seveas> when I figure out who to add
<Seveas> I'm thinking council + leads of regular meetings
<Hobbsee> Seveas: council will do for a start, yeah.  also, #ubuntu-motu
<Hobbsee> sounds smart
<Hobbsee> thanks
* mode/#ubuntu-meeting [+o Hobbsee]  by ChanServ
* mode/#ubuntu-meeting [-o Hobbsee]  by ChanServ
<Seveas> Hobbsee, what's with -motu?
<Hobbsee> Seveas: there are only 2 ops there
<Seveas> I see
<Hobbsee> [00:04]  [Notice]  -ChanServ- 2   10    sladen                              6h 19m 20s
<Seveas> sladen, poke
<Hobbsee> [00:04]  [Notice]  -ChanServ- 3   10    Riddell                             6h 19m 20s
<sladen> Seveas: pong
<Seveas> sladen, would you mind adding some more ops to #ubuntu-motu?
<sladen> Seveas: just message chanserv
<Seveas> you need level 10 for ops :)
<Seveas> and only 2 people in there have that
<sladen> you didn't used to, who changed that?
<Seveas> don't know
<sladen> Seveas: " Contact access is required for [LEVEL] "
<Seveas> sladen, /msg chanserv identify #ubuntu-motu password-of-ubuntu-motu
<sladen> there /wasn't/ one
<Seveas> heh
<Seveas> shall I poke freenode staff to get this solved?
<sladen> Seveas: that's probably the only way to solve it
<Seveas> ok, I'll poke
#ubuntu-meeting 2008-02-12
<zul> @schedule montreal
<ubotu> Schedule for America/Montreal: 13 Feb 08:00: Education Team | 13 Feb 16:00: Server Team | 13 Feb 17:30: Forum Council | 14 Feb 09:00: Desktop Team | 14 Feb 23:00: MOTU | 19 Feb 20:00: TriLoCo-Midwest
* ubotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 12 Feb 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 13 Feb 13:00 UTC: Education Team | 13 Feb 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 13 Feb 22:30 UTC: Forum Council | 14 Feb 14:00 UTC: Desktop Team | 15 Feb 04:00 UTC: MOTU
* ubotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 12 Feb 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 13 Feb 13:00 UTC: Education Team | 13 Feb 19:00 UTC: Platform Team | 13 Feb 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 13 Feb 22:30 UTC: Forum Council | 14 Feb 14:00 UTC: Desktop Team
<nixternal> @schedule chicago
<ubotu> Schedule for America/Chicago: 12 Feb 14:00: Technical Board | 13 Feb 07:00: Education Team | 13 Feb 13:00: Platform Team | 13 Feb 15:00: Server Team | 13 Feb 16:30: Forum Council | 14 Feb 08:00: Desktop Team
<slangasek> nixternal: hmm, where is that schedule set?  the platform team meeting appears to be offset by 12h
<nixternal> the Fridge
<nixternal> slangasek: 13 Feb @ 01:00 UTC then? I will fix it for you
<slangasek> nixternal: should be 0700UTC, which is 0100 in America/Chicago
<nixternal> derr
<nixternal> I forgot I did Chicago :)
<nixternal> @schedule
<ubotu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: 12 Feb 20:00: Technical Board | 13 Feb 13:00: Education Team | 13 Feb 19:00: Platform Team | 13 Feb 21:00: Server Team | 13 Feb 22:30: Forum Council | 14 Feb 14:00: Desktop Team
<nixternal> I wonder why they did 21:00
 * nixternal checks fridge mail
<nixternal> It is weekly from 07:00 to 08:00  <-- Colin had it right, whoever added it to the fridge had it wrong
<nixternal> fixing now
<nixternal> fixed
<slangasek> cheers
* ubotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Technical Board Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 13 Feb 13:00 UTC: Education Team | 13 Feb 19:00 UTC: Platform Team | 13 Feb 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 13 Feb 22:30 UTC: Forum Council | 14 Feb 14:00 UTC: Desktop Team
<lool> @schedule Paris
<ubotu> Schedule for Europe/Paris: Current meeting: Technical Board 13 Feb 14:00: Education Team | 13 Feb 20:00: Platform Team | 13 Feb 22:00: Server Team | 13 Feb 23:30: Forum Council | 14 Feb 15:00: Desktop Team
* ubotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Technical Board Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 13 Feb 07:00 UTC: Platform Team | 13 Feb 13:00 UTC: Education Team | 13 Feb 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 13 Feb 22:30 UTC: Forum Council | 14 Feb 14:00 UTC: Desktop Team
<mdz> Keybuk,mjg59: ping
<Keybuk> mdz: ä¹
<mdz> I got a response rate of exactly 0% from my nag email
<mdz> I've sent an SMS to sabdfl
<Keybuk> mdz: lies
<Keybuk> From: 	Scott James Remnant <scott@canonical.com>
<Keybuk> To: 	Matt Zimmerman <mdz@canonical.com>
<Keybuk> Cc: 	Mark Shuttleworth <mark@canonical.com>, Matthew Garrett <mjg59@srcf.ucam.org>
<Keybuk> Subject: 	Re: Tech board next week
<Keybuk> Date: 	Fri, 08 Feb 2008 12:43:01 +0000
<mjg59> Hi
<mdz> Keybuk: I stand corrected
<mdz> TheMuso: are you here?
<TheMuso> mdz: Indeed I am.
<mdz> ScottK,ScottK2: you?
<ScottK> Yes
<mdz> lool?
<lool> Yup
<mdz> mathiaz?
<mathiaz> o/
<mdz> rtg?
<rtg> yo
<mdz> this will be a long meeting
<mdz> thanks for coming
<mdz> we are waiting on sabdfl
<Keybuk> that's ok, I brought the crumpets, butter and toaster upstairs
<TheMuso> Keybuk: lol
<mdz> just phoned sabdfl, he swears he'll be here shortly
<mdz> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 20:03. The chair is mdz.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<mdz> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoardAgenda
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoardAgenda
<Keybuk> mdz: he swears that he'll be here, or he swore and said he'd be here? :)
<mdz> Keybuk: more whinged than swore
<mdz> we'd best get started without him if we're going to get anywhere
<mdz> [topic] ubuntu-core-dev application from Luke Yelavich: [WWW] https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/motu-council/2008-January/000713.html
<MootBot> New Topic:  ubuntu-core-dev application from Luke Yelavich: [WWW] https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/motu-council/2008-January/000713.html
<Keybuk> TheMuso: what do you see as the biggest problem right now for a derivative like Ubuntu Studio which does all of its work within the existing Ubuntu structure?
<mdz> TheMuso: are any of your sponsors here to participate in the discussion?
<TheMuso> mdz: Unfortunately, not that I know of.
<sabdfl> evening all
<mdz> TheMuso: that's ok, they all sent feedback to the list
<mdz> [agreed] sabdfl is late
<MootBot> AGREED received:  sabdfl is late
<sabdfl> mootbot passed the turing test, i see
<sabdfl> agenda?
<TheMuso> Keybuk: Being able to adjust some settings that were originally designed to only be set for one use, and one use only. A good example is the GNOME sound scheme. Currently, this is set via some files in /etc.sound/events in several files, and not in gconf like one would expect.
<TheMuso> We need to dpkg-divert the originals to place new ones to set our own sound scheme.
<TheMuso> Then there is setting different settings in /etc/security/limits.conf for realtime priority for the audio group, however we've largely gotten around that one.
<mdz> TheMuso: you dpkg-divert conffiles? :-o
<lool> sabdfl: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoardAgenda
<mdz> lool: (I pasted scrollback to sabdfl in /query)
<TheMuso> mdz: Unfortunately, we have to. I wrote up a spec for UDSs, but it wasn't considered. I do not like it at all.
<lool> mdz: Ah, thanks; I was about to do this next
<Mithrandir> TheMuso: you're aware that doing so is not supported and does not always work correctly in upgrades?
<mdz> TheMuso: which spec?
<TheMuso> Mithrandir: Yes I am.
<TheMuso> mdz: derivative-sound-schemes I *think* it is, I'd have to check to be sure.
<mdz> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DerivCustomSoundThemes
<TheMuso> thats the one
<mdz> TheMuso: were you involved in any other open source projects prior to Ubuntu?
<TheMuso> mdz: Yes, I was. I used to maintain a package repository of Audio/Multimedia packages for Slackware, and was involved with an attempt at standardizing Slackware 3rd party packaging, before that fell through. I was also on the fringes of the GNOME Accessibility project, as a user, and tester.
<mdz> TheMuso: what brought you here from slackware?
<TheMuso> mdz: The packaging system for a start, and the fact that I recently had bought a new notebook, which took ages to configure for every install. This got frustrating, however the real breaker for me was attempting to set up cups on my server one day...
<TheMuso> I had to crank up the debug log to max to find shared libraries were missing, which were X libs.
<TheMuso> Since Slackware doesn't track dependencies.
<mdz> ...
<mdz> TheMuso: you joined MOTU about a year ago.  from your point of view, how has the project changed since then?  what's better, what's worse?
<TheMuso> MOTU seems to be expanding quite a bit, which is great. There are so many packages that need attending to, its impossible to get to them all.
<sabdfl> TheMuso: do you think it would be helpful to let folks manage a single set of packages, or do you think it's better to look for generalists in MOTU?
<TheMuso> However, I fear we the MOTUs may get overun with contributors, and may not be able to handle them all. I.e we will have to spend our time sponsoring all the time, which may put some MOTUs off very quickly.
<TheMuso> I am also concerned about the quality of some MOTUs work. We as a community are doing our best to address this however.
<TheMuso> sabdfl: I think generalists are best, as then everybody gets experience with different packaging styles etc, which willhopefully produce higher quality work fro mthe MOTU.
<TheMuso> We are potentially working on software for millions of people, and we have to get it right.
<mdz> TheMuso: most of those packages, of course, come from Debian.  what kind of tending do they need in order to fit well into Ubuntu?
<TheMuso> mdz: For a start, there seems to be a push to add .desktop files to packages that have GUIs, but aren't in the menus. These are being done, and are being sent back up to Debian. There is also init scripts that need altering to work around /var/run as a tmpfs. Again, being sent back to Debian.
<TheMuso> Then there are kernel module source packages, that may have to be changed to work with our kernels.
<TheMuso> There is of course, times when changes to Ubuntu packages are not meant for debian, such as firefox/xulrunner stuff.
<TheMuso> I haven't seen the details of those, but I do know about them.
 * LaserJock notes that there are ~ 4k Ubuntu versioned source packages in Universe, 700+ of which are not in Debian, just for reference
<sabdfl> TheMuso: what would be your top three list of things you'd like to change about the way ubuntu is structured, run, or organised?
<mdz> TheMuso: do you have any ideas for how we might make that process more efficient, to make it easier for MOTU to work with many packages?
<mdz> I'm badly lagged
<TheMuso> sabdfl: Good question. To be honest, I haven't given it much thought, as I personally am happy with the way things are, however I personally feel there should be more in the way of ensuring prospecitve MOTUs can show what they know WRT packaging. For example, I don't think as a whole, we know enough about shared libraries, and how to package them properly. I won't deny being in the same boat.
<sabdfl> thanks. other candidates might want to prep answers to that question, too
<sabdfl> i wonder how we could rigorously test MOTU skills without building NM, or requiring folks to have gone through NM
<TheMuso> mdz: Try and encourage inactive MOTUs back to help, and if possible, stagger the amount of newcomers, so that the existing newcomers have a chance to get their skills up, and become a MOTU. I haven't given it a lot of thought, as I am not sure what could be done without upsetting a part of the system somewhere.
<sladen> people need to "learn on the job" at /some stage/.  Debian sets that perhaps a little too far off; I don't think Ubuntu loses enourmously if somebody has stuck out MOTU for a while
<TheMuso> sladen: Yes, but not if there is little time remaining to get an important fix in, and you're the only one who can do it, but don't know how, and don't do it properly.
<mdz_> was that only me, or a freenode problem?
<TheMuso> No problem here.
<keescook> level3 appears to be having issues
<mdz> last thing I saw was <sabdfl>        i wonder how we could rigorously...
<sabdfl> some sort of glitch in the matrix
<TheMuso> ScottK2: I would call it challenging me. I'm enjoying this.
<TheMuso> ugh wrong one
<keescook> mootbot has it all: http://kryten.incognitus.net/mootbot/meetings/ubuntu-meeting.log.20080212_2003.html
<TheMuso> mdz: Try and encourage inactive MOTUs back to help, and if possible, stagger the amount of newcomers, so that the existing newcomers have a chance to get their skills up, and become a MOTU. I haven't given it a lot of thought, as I am not sure what could be done without upsetting a part of the system somewhere.
<sabdfl> TheMuso: should we up the ante? ;-)
<mdz> keescook: thanks
<TheMuso> sabdfl: Perhaps, but certainly we don't want to make things too discouraging.
<TheMuso> So its a balance.
<mdz> TheMuso: that wasn't exactly my question; we'll always be limited by the number of people involved in the project, and so are always interested in finding ways to help them work better
<mdz> I just got an SMS from Keybuk, apparently he's affected by the network outage
<TheMuso> mdz: Re-reading it then, I don't really have any ideas at this point. I thought the team idea would work, but from what I've read, it hasn't.
<mdz> mjg59: are you still here?
<mdz> Keybuk_: welcome back.  http://kryten.incognitus.net/mootbot/meetings/ubuntu-meeting.log.20080212_2003.html
<mdz> TheMuso: sorry about all this, but it's obviously beyond our control
<TheMuso> mdz: Understandable.
<mjg59> I am
<mdz> mjg59,Keybuk_,sabdfl: I think we need to call a vote and move on.  any further questions for TheMuso?
<Keybuk_> none from me
<Keybuk_> assuming I'm here :)
<mdz> everyone had a chance to review the links?
<mdz> Keybuk_: you are
<Keybuk_> I have
<mdz> sabdfl: ping?
<mdz> now we've lost sabdfl
<mdz> it's like whack-a-mole
<sabdfl> yay
<sabdfl> where are we?
<mdz> <mdz> mjg59,Keybuk_,sabdfl: I think we need to call a vote and move on.  any further questions for TheMuso?
<mdz> <mdz> everyone had a chance to review the links?
<mdz> sabdfl: and then noticed you were offline
<keescook> this is reminding me of an intarwebs 2.0 version of "who's on first?"
<sabdfl> +1 on TheMuso from me
<sabdfl> what's the mootbot voting magic incancation?
<Keybuk> sudo mdz [VOTE] TheMuso for core-dev
 * lool :)
<mdz> [vote] ubuntu-core-dev application from Luke Yelavich: [WWW] https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/motu-council/2008-January/000713.html
<MootBot> Please vote on:  ubuntu-core-dev application from Luke Yelavich: [WWW] https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/motu-council/2008-January/000713.html.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<mdz> oh good, MootBot didn't get confused
<mdz> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from mdz. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<mjg59> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from mjg59. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<Keybuk> +1 from me
<MootBot> +1 received from Keybuk. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<mdz> ...and sabdfl prevoted
<mdz> #endvote
<mdz> that never works
<nixternal> mdz: [endvote] does work
<mdz> [endvote]
<MootBot> Final result is 3 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 3
<mdz> nixternal: thanks
<nixternal> np
<mdz> TheMuso: welcome!
<nixternal> congrats TheMuso!
<TheMuso> Thanks folks. I really really appreciate it!
<mdz> [topic] ubuntu-core-dev application from Scott Kitterman: [WWW] https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/motu-council/2008-January/000776.html
<MootBot> New Topic:  ubuntu-core-dev application from Scott Kitterman: [WWW] https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/motu-council/2008-January/000776.html
<ScottK> TheMuso: Congrats
<mdz> [link]  https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/motu-council/2008-January/000776.html
<MootBot> LINK received:   https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/motu-council/2008-January/000776.html
<\sh> congrats TheMuso well done :)
<sabdfl> welcome, TheMuso
<ScottK> Since I applied, Riddell has sponsored a number of Main uploads for me too.
<ScottK> He can't be here now, but earlier today said: "<Riddell> ScottK: but "I advocate ScottK for core-dev, he's very reliable for backports and motu activity and has done some important merges in main""
<nixternal> I can vouge on that paste from #kubuntu-devel earlier
<sabdfl> ScottK: how robust is amavis these days?
<ScottK> sabdfl: It's security record is VERY good.  It is Weitse Venema's preferred way to integrate spam/virus stuff into Postfix and that speaks volumes.
<sabdfl> well
<sabdfl> indeed
<mdz> I read the code once
<mdz> but I feel much better now
<sabdfl> would you suggest that amavis would be a good idea as a standard part of the ubuntu server mail stack?
<ScottK> Yes.
<ScottK> That's why I did ~a dozen MIRs to get it promoted.
<sabdfl> what other features do you think would make for a killer mail stack?
<ScottK> Once you get to far out there are many many options.
<ScottK> and it's hard to generalize.
<mdz> ScottK: there's been some muttering lately about the overhead of the MIR process.  what do you think about it?  do you think it could be streamlined while preserving the original goal?
<ScottK> I think that the mail server tasksel is pretty new.
<ScottK> mdz: It's painful, but I don't know a better way.
<ScottK> It does ensure someone is doing some research.
<mdz> ScottK: what's painful about it?
<ScottK> Even for a simple perl module it takes ~ 30 minutes to an hour per package.
<ScottK> As I said earlier, amavisd-new took about a dozen MIRs because of dependencies.
<mdz> ScottK: which parts of it are most time consuming?
<ScottK> So it adds up.
<ScottK> Researching security history is probably the longest, but also most important.
<mdz> committing maintenance for more packages is something we need to do very carefully (hi keescook), but if we can make the diligence easier, I'm interested
<ScottK> Since packages can be named many different things ...
<ScottK> I don't have any great ideas. One advantage of the current process is someone has to really want it.
<mdz> ScottK: what about SRU?
<ScottK> If a project has a real champion, odds are it's a better idea.
<ScottK> I've only done a very few in Main.  In Universe I think we have a good balance now.
<ScottK> My biggest concern is it seems too inviting for end users to run with *-proposed enabled.
<ScottK> That's almost never a good idea.
<mdz> I think it would be a plus if more people ran with -proposed
<mdz> since those packages would see more testing before going to -updates
<ScottK> I think for more technical users, yes.
<mdz> right, I mean members of the community, rather than casual users
<ScottK> We had a bad svn upload to proposed that got a large number of bug reports from people that I don't think had any business running proposed.
<ScottK> Yes.  Agreed.
<ScottK> That's the source of my concern (my experience triaging that issue and answering the reports).
<mdz> ScottK: what do you think Ubuntu Server is most lacking compared to more established server distros?
<mdz> apart from, well, history :-)
<ScottK> My experience is primarily in mail servers.
<ScottK> In that area, I believe we are in pretty good shape overall.
<ScottK> We just need to mature the tasksel over time.
<ScottK> Postfix is one of the reasons I picked Ubuntu.
<ScottK> Running the same core on server and desktop is another.
<sabdfl> ScottK: what sort of shape is our backport community process in at the moment?
<ScottK> It's pretty good.
<ScottK> We need more testers with more experience, but that will likely always be the case.
<ScottK> We will need more core-dev involvement (or relax the source backports rule) as Dapper continues to age.
<mdz> ScottK: it seems that some enthusiasts want more of a "rolling release" rather than the stable releases we provide
<ScottK> Yes.  I like the way we do it with.
<mdz> do you think that's practical?  is it really what they want, or would they be disappointed with the inevitable breakage?
<ScottK> I don't think it's practical.  There's a balance and I think ours is pretty good.
<ScottK> You can run a stable foundation and pull needed new features from backports is a good combination.
<mdz> do we get many requests from end users for backports?
<ScottK> Yes.  That's where most of them come from.
<mdz> or is it mostly those involved with the project who make the decisions?
<ScottK> Lots of users asking, some of them testing, and then a few of us deciding.
<ScottK> I also think backports can provide some essential infrastructure for long term support of thing.
<mdz> does the backports team look after security vulnerabilities which affect those packages?
<ScottK> We try to.
<mdz> how do you find out about them? does the security team notify you?
<ScottK> It's much like universe in that respect.
<ScottK> I read the USNs.
<ScottK> There are packages I watch after (clamav in particular).
<mdz> it seems things could slip through the cracks if they don't affect a released version
<mdz> but I don't know how common that is, perhaps keescook would
<ScottK> Yes.  That's quite true.
<mdz> mjg59,Keybuk,sabdfl: further questions?
<Keybuk> none from me
 * jdstrand would like to point out that ScottK is very timely with his clamav updates
<keescook> as far as backports?  We haven't tended to track it.
<sabdfl> nothing from me, thanks ScottK
 * jdstrand is not core-dev yet (for the record)
<mdz> [vote] ubuntu-core-dev application from Scott Kitterman
<MootBot> Please vote on:  ubuntu-core-dev application from Scott Kitterman.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<mdz> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from mdz. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<sabdfl> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from sabdfl. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<Keybuk> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from Keybuk. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<mdz> I think we may have lost mjg59
<mdz> no time to lose
<mdz> [endvote]
<MootBot> Final result is 3 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 3
<mdz> ScottK: welcome!
<TheMuso> ScottK: Congrats!
<ScottK> mdz: Thanks
<ScottK> TheMuso: Too.
<mdz> [topic] ubuntu-core-dev application from Loic Minier
<MootBot> New Topic:  ubuntu-core-dev application from Loic Minier
<mdz> [link] https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/motu-council/2008-January/000817.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/motu-council/2008-January/000817.html
<lool> sabdfl: http://paste.debian.net/49057
<lool> SÃ©b sent this after Daniel's recommendation: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/motu-council/2008-January/000822.html
<\sh> ScottK, well done buddy :) congrats :)
<lool> SÃ©b is by far my biggest sponsor
<ScottK> Thanks
<lool> BTW, TheMuso + ScottK: congrats :)
<TheMuso> lool: Thanks.
<ScottK> lool: Thanks
<mjg59> Wurgh. Sorry about that, back now.
<mdz> lool: you were involved in Debian for some time before Ubuntu.  if you could make just one suggestion to all Debian developers regarding Ubuntu, and to all Ubuntu developers regarding Debian, what would they be?
<mdz> lool: put another way, what do you think we understand least about one another?
<sabdfl> thanks lool
<lool> I would suggest Debian Developers to steal more from Ubuntu; Ubuntu has many processes which can be envied, notably the "Spec" / blueprint concept which is running really nicely, but patches could also be taken more frequently
<sabdfl> odd choice of paste service, under the circumstances :-)
<lool> To Ubuntu developers, I would like to suggest working hand in hand with Debian on all non-distinguishing topics; I think we can share most of our technical base, and would like distros to work more effectively together
<mdz> lool: do you think it would help to work on some standard way of making technical decisions together?
<Keybuk> do you have a suggestion how/on what?
<lool> mdz: Hmm, reading how you refined your question, I think many Debian folks see Ubuntu as a competitor or an enemy instead of a different offer for end users
<mdz> it's all too easy to bring something up on a mailing list, get little or no response (or only dissent) and get stalled
<mdz> it's important to us that we always keep moving and don't get blocked
<lool> mdz: I think it would help to take technical decisions, especially wide ranging ones or deep reaching ones together; the DEP concept floating around at the moment lets me think Debian folks see how the concept was successful with many groups
<mdz> so while we would like for Debian and Ubuntu to stay aligned, we need some agility as well
<lool> Perhaps this will be ground on which to base cross-distros proposals
<lool> sabdfl: I tried to paste on ubuntu.com first, but it failed wrapping the text
<lool> sabdfl: You can note that down as an Ubuntu infrastructure improvement  ;)
<lool> Keybuk: I'm sorry, which point(s) was your question aimed at?
<Keybuk> lool: how to work hand-in-hand and what kind of topics?
<lool> mdz: I can only agree that Ubuntu was right at organizing itself to be able to differ on all topics; I mean to take the choice of having the possibility to change the whole distro instead of -- say -- try to work in Debian directly; I agree independance in decision making and technical changes is key
<lool> Keybuk: It's quite a large topic, but I can see some topics where convergence seems natural between the two distros: toolchain, or QA for example
<lool> These topics can be handled in many ways similarly for the two distros, and folks do share and exchange on these fronts
<sabdfl> lool: it's easy to say we should work together on technical directions, but as mdz points out, there's no clarity on what that actually means, and how you keep moving forward on an idea
<sabdfl> do you have specific suggestions in that regard?
<lool> On other topics, such as the kernel for example, there's no alignment at all
<sabdfl> for example, if we want to consider moving to SMART as a default package manager, what would be the right process or venue to agree that with debian as opposed to simply executing it in ubuntu?
<sabdfl> don't panic anybody, this is a thought experiment ;-)
<lool> I didn't think through as to what would moving to SMART imply; this is certainly a very long term discussion for which I'd try to gather interest in the Debian community first, perhaps explaining the concepts of SMART at Debconfs and proposing to mentor work on SMART
<lool> But I think there are more places where Debian and Ubuntu can truly share forces, such as packaging of base library which often carry little patching be it in Debian or Ubuntu
<mdz> I like the idea of presenting more at debconf
<mdz> we can't wait until debconf to make decisions, of course, but it would help to keep debian informed of what we're doing
<lool> It's kind of the software supermarket concept which has been frowned upon, but as I see it it could be applied to e.g. libraries or infrastructure packages
<sabdfl> lool: DebConf*s* implies a multi-year process
<lool> sabdfl: SMART implies a multi-year process as I see it :)
<mdz> realistically, moving to a new package manager framework probably is a multi-year process...
 * lool fives mdz 
<mdz> mjg59: questions?
<mjg59> lool: What do you think of the Debian enhancement proposal work
<mjg59> ?
<mjg59> (I may have the precise name here wrong0
<mjg59> )
<mdz> mjg59: <lool> mdz: I think it would help to take technical decisions, especially wide ranging ones or deep reaching ones together; the DEP concept floating around at the moment lets me think Debian folks see how the concept was successful with many groups
<mdz> (I think that was referring to the same thing anyway)
<mjg59> Ah, ok, that does cover it
<lool> I did mention DEP shortly, and I think it's great Debian realized how useful such a process is
<mdz> I'm not familiar with what's been discussed; is there a document which explains it?
<lool> Perhaps when it's around for a little while we will have some cross-distros proposals which will be declined as specs and deps at the same time
<lool> mdz: I think there is; as a result from the Extramadura discussions there were some links floating around
<mdz> lool: declined?
<mdz> defined, perhaps? :-)
<lool> Err expressed or defined; sorry, a Frenchism
<mdz> that sounded uncharacteristically pessimistic, I thought
<lool> http://dep.debian.net http://lists.debian.org/debian-project/2008/01/msg00045.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://dep.debian.net http://lists.debian.org/debian-project/2008/01/msg00045.html
<mdz> thanks
<geser> mdz: see also http://dep.debian.net/deps/dep0
<mdz> Keybuk,sabdfl,mjg59: any further questions for lool?
<sabdfl> none here, thanks
<Keybuk> none from me
<mdz> geser: thanks
<mjg59> I'm god
<mjg59> Sigh.
<mjg59> This keyboard is vexing me.
<mjg59> I'm good. Not god.
<mdz> [vote] ubuntu-core-dev application from Loic Minier
<MootBot> Please vote on:  ubuntu-core-dev application from Loic Minier.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<mdz> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from mdz. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<mjg59> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from mjg59. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<Keybuk> I feel that I should abstain, since lool reports to me
<MootBot> Private +1 vote received. 3 for, 0 against, 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<mdz> sabdfl: was that you?
<keescook> heh.  private vote was me.
<keescook> I hadn't noticed that feature before.  apologies.
<mdz> keescook: not a very good time to experiment with it
<keescook> mdz: yup, sorry.
<mdz> sabdfl: vote?
<keescook> (there needs to be a way to define the "voting pool")
<mdz> I suppose we could moderate the channel temporarily
<mdz> so long as nobody gets clever and privmsg's it ;-)
<Keybuk> we're not a large enough group to worry, surely?
* ubotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 13 Feb 07:00 UTC: Platform Team | 13 Feb 13:00 UTC: Education Team | 13 Feb 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 13 Feb 22:30 UTC: Forum Council | 14 Feb 14:00 UTC: Desktop Team | 15 Feb 04:00 UTC: MOTU
<mdz> Keybuk: it's been confused in the past, when someone is overenthusiastic
<slangasek> mjg59: if your keyboard vexes you, surely you should smite it?
<mjg59> It's an option
<mdz> Keybuk: (+0 abstains, I believe)
<mdz> I count 2 for, 0 against, 1 abstain, and sabdfl's vote pending
<mdz> going to time out in a moment and consider it a vote among the 3 of us
<mdz> [endvote]
<MootBot> Final result is 3 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 3
<mdz> [agreed] correction: 2 for, 0 against, 1 abstained.  Total: 2
<MootBot> AGREED received:  correction: 2 for, 0 against, 1 abstained.  Total: 2
<Keybuk> mdz: oh, you were telling me *how* to do it
<Keybuk> heh
<mdz> lool: congratulations
<Keybuk> I was still hunting in the docs
<lool> mdz: Thanks
<sabdfl> +1
<Keybuk> lool: congrats
<Mithrandir> lool: congrats.
<lool> Thanks!
<Mithrandir> well deserved
<lool> Wow, that fast
<mdz> [topic] ubuntu-core-dev application from Mathias Gug
<MootBot> New Topic:  ubuntu-core-dev application from Mathias Gug
<mdz> mathiaz: still with us?
<mathiaz> yes
<ScottK> lool: Congratulations
<mdz> we're moving westward from here, so it shouldn't be so late for the remaining folks
<mdz> [link] https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/motu-council/2008-February/000855.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/motu-council/2008-February/000855.html
<sabdfl> mathiaz: could you answer the question i posed to TheMuso, about a top 3 list of things you'd like to see improved in the way ubuntu is structured, run or organised?
<TheMuso> lool: Congrats!
<mathiaz> sabdfl: I've recently though about ways to improve the number of contributors to the Server team. One thing I'd like to change is the put the sponsorship process in a more important place than becoming a MOTU.
<mdz> mathiaz: what do you mean, in a more important place than becoming a MOTU?
<mathiaz> sabdfl: whenever I'm faced with a potential contributor that would like to get his package in ubuntu, the anwser was to point them to become a MOTU
<mathiaz> I've always found that MOTU is something that is heavily promoted.
<mathiaz> However the barries to become a MOTU are high and some contributors turn away.
<ScottK> mathiaz: Congratulations.
<mathiaz> I've sent an email about a mentoring proposal on ubuntu-server and got some private replies from people stating that they don't know where to start contributing
<sabdfl> so, more important, or more accessible?
<mdz> mathiaz: in other words, you think it should be easier / more encouraged to contribute before becoming a MOTU?
<mathiaz> and would like to contribute somehow but not become a MOTU because it seems to high for them.
<mathiaz> sabdfl: more accessible is a better world I think.
<ScottK> Sorry about that, I can't read.
<sabdfl> i think i agree - MOTU is a wonderful team, of folks who make a huge contribution
<sabdfl> generally, though, they care about the whole system, and are generalists
<mathiaz> mdz: my point is that MOTU is not necessarly what you should aim for if start contributing to ubuntu
<mdz> mathiaz: what if, say, someone could be granted commit privileges on a bazaar branch for a package, and contribute that way?
<sabdfl> there is a class of people who care about a specific area, or category, or function, and we don't handle their contributions well
<mathiaz> mdz: that would be much better
<mathiaz> sabdfl: aggreed. I especially see this in the server team.
<mdz> that would avoid the issue of upload privileges, and provide a natural sponsorship mechanism with low overhead
<mathiaz> mdz: I'm all for this.
<mjg59> Something broadly along the lines of the Debian Maintainer policy?
<mathiaz> mdz: I think it'd make more sense to have a middle ground between the team approach used in ubuntu and the maintainer approach of Debian
<mdz> mjg59: in concept, yes, but with fine-grained access control via revision control, rather than a keyring
<mjg59> Sounds doable
 * sabdfl would still like to see package-based upload permissions
<mathiaz> sabdfl: I've met people wanting to get their application into ubuntu, but I was a bit unconfortable stating they should become a MOTU
<sabdfl> but i can live with VCS
<mdz> mjg59: the main problems are, 1) package source code isn't in revision control, and 2) the LP access control model for branches would mean a new team for every package
<Keybuk> sabdfl: what if there was no upload? :)
<mdz> Keybuk++
<Keybuk> s/dput/bzr tag/
<sabdfl> Keybuk: *nice* idea!
<Keybuk> (or bzr something)
<mdz> yeah, we should write a specification for that or something
<mdz> *cough*
 * ScottK kindly requests we not hard wire a particular VCS into our processes.
<mdz> mathiaz: you were involved with gentoo before this, right?
<mathiaz> mdz: as a user only
<sabdfl> ScottK: DENIED
<mathiaz> mdz: on of my previous job assignement was to build a web hosting using gentoo :/
<mdz> mathiaz: what do you miss about gentoo?
<mathiaz> mdz: being able to take long coffee breaks while my systems are updating ;)
<mathiaz> mdz: it's a distro usefull if you like to tweak your environement
<mathiaz> mdz: and learn how things are working.
<mdz> mathiaz: why?
<mathiaz> mdz: so for personal education it's great. But I'd not use in a production environement. You always need to deploy binaries and make sure their qa is good.
<mathiaz> mdz: you have to go through a whole manual install process - you get to learn how things are done then.
<mdz> mathiaz: do you think it's possible for a distro to be both good for learning and good for production?
<mathiaz> mdz: yes - that's what opensource is about.
<mdz> mathiaz: so how could Ubuntu become better for learning?
<mathiaz> mdz: in the case of gentoo, I'd say it lacks the production.
<mathiaz> mdz: making easier for user to contribute.
<mdz> I am much less interested in making gentoo better ;-)
<mathiaz> mdz: you start studying your system when you wanna fix a bug.
<mathiaz> mdz: and the easier the fix will be accepted, the higher the chance are someone will take the time to fix it.
<mathiaz> mdz: especially in companies where sysadmin maintain their own software
<mathiaz> mdz: such as a webhosting company that has its own version of apache and php
<mdz> mathiaz: it's pretty easy for people to send patches now.  getting a good turnaround on them is much harder, though
<mdz> even in Debian, which has many, many more developers, patches often fall on the floor
<mathiaz> mdz: I'd like to tell them: send us your patches we'll integrate them !
<mdz> mathiaz: isn't that what the sponsorship process is?
<mathiaz> mdz: yes. But it's not so widely used.
<mdz> why not?
<mathiaz> mdz: that goes back to my first argument.
<mathiaz> mdz: there is also a lack of manpower on the other side of the queue.
<mathiaz> mdz:  I base my comments on the patches for server packages - as a side note.
<mdz> which means we need more developers.  so it is a circular argument :-)
<Keybuk> again it sounds like that if the developers could get their patches in themselves, and someone just had to ack them, it would be easier?
<mathiaz> Keybuk: you still need to review them.
<mathiaz> Keybuk: especially if it's a new contributor.
<Keybuk> that's certainly true
<Keybuk> different question
<Keybuk> how do you think Ubuntu Server and Ubuntu Desktop could be closer aligned?
<mathiaz> Keybuk: I'd put that in a entreprise environment.
<mathiaz> Keybuk: so authentication is key part here, with SSO.
<Keybuk> SSO?
<sabdfl> mathiaz: would a standardised approach to patch submission be a help?
<sabdfl> single-sign on
<mathiaz> Keybuk: Single Sign On
<mathiaz> sabdfl: I think the sponsorship process is already good at this.
<Keybuk> elaborate?
<mathiaz> sabdfl: there are ressources on how you should submit patches and debdiff.
<mathiaz> Keybuk: one great use case would be to deploy an Ubuntu Server and when adding new desktop you can authenticate using the accounts defined on the server.
<Keybuk> would that authentication automatically apply to servers on the server as well?
<mdz> servers on the server?
<mathiaz> Keybuk: yes.
<mathiaz> Keybuk: we've started to work on integrating postfix and dovecot so that they can leverage each other.
<Keybuk> ...you'll set mdz off ;)
<Keybuk> does anyone else have other questions?
<mdz> not from me, I've read the feedback from the list
<Keybuk> me also
<Keybuk> mjg59 ? sabdfl ?
<mdz> Keybuk: are you using french punctuation to help mathiaz feel at home?
<lool> :)
<mjg59> No, I'm happy
<Keybuk> mdz: Â¿no?
<Keybuk> (and isn't that Spanish punctuation?)
<mdz> sabdfl: stay awake, we have one more after this
<mdz> and then we will be caught up
<Keybuk> let's move to the vote
<mdz> [vote]  ubuntu-core-dev application from Mathias Gug
<MootBot> Please vote on:   ubuntu-core-dev application from Mathias Gug.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<Keybuk> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from Keybuk. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<mdz> +1, sustained good quality contributions, and anyone pitti trusts is OK by me
<mjg59> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from mjg59. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<mdz> and for MootBot:
<mdz> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from mdz. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<mdz> [endvote]
<MootBot> Final result is 3 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 3
<mdz> mathiaz: welcome!
<lool> mathiaz: Congrats!
<mathiaz> mdz: Thanks :)
 * soren hugs mathiaz
<mdz> rtg: still here?
<TheMuso> mathiaz: Congrats.
<rtg> yup
<mdz> [topic] ubuntu-core-dev application from Tim Gardner
<MootBot> New Topic:  ubuntu-core-dev application from Tim Gardner
<jdstrand> yea mathiaz!
<mathiaz> TheMuso: lool: Thanks -
<mdz> [link] https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/motu-council/2008-February/000861.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/motu-council/2008-February/000861.html
<lool> My apologies for not attending any longer; I need to drive back home
<mjg59> lool: No problem
<Keybuk> rtg: what has been the biggest challenge of Ubuntu kernel maintenance?
<mdz> rtg: it's very unusual to join ubuntu-core-dev directly (rather than via MOTU) without a lot of prior packaging experience
<sabdfl> sorry, +1 from me on mathiaz
<rtg> Keybuk: learning the debian way.
<ScottK> mathiaz: Congratulations. (now)
<rtg> mdz: I've been getting some excellent practice at packaging.
<rtg> mdz: I notice that you dabbled in linux-meta. That one made my head hurt.
<mdz> rtg: that one has grown many heads over the years
<mdz> rtg: I'm familiar with your work on the kernel itself, but can you tell me more about the packaging work you've done?
<rtg> One advantage I've had is that the packages I'm maintaining were relatively well structured.
<rtg> mdz: I started the packages for Hardy, based on the Gutsy stuff.
<rtg> I also worked with Ben to break the lrm dependencies.
<rtg> so that dist-upgrades don't drag lbm from one dist to the next.
<sabdfl> rtg: do you have any interest in packages beyond the kernel?
<rtg> let me rephrase, I broke the lbm dependencies.
<rtg> In as much as the packages allow me to upgrade code and fix bugs, not really.
<rtg> There are a number of packages outsire the core kernel that I need to deal with.
<rtg> pci-ids, initramfs-tools, mosule-tools-init, etc.
<rtg> s/mosule/module/
<mdz> rtg: initramfs-tools has become pretty complex.  how do you think it could be improved?
<rtg> I feel that I understand packaging basics well enough to wade in and make changes without breaking anything.
<rtg> mdz: I don't know about initramfs-tools enough to comment.
<rtg> Most of my touches have been very light.
<rtg> I do think its one I'm going to get familiar with pretty soon.
<mdz> rtg: your situation is a good example of what sabdfl keeps talking about, where the existing process is a bit awkward
<mdz> your focus is very much on a particular set of software (the kernel and surrounding parts), which also happens to live in main
<rtg> mdz: I agree. I don't have the time or experience to be a MOTU.
<rtg> Also, a great number of the folks I deal with are outside Debian.
<mdz> it makes sense for you to be able to push kernel changes in, but the way that we've set the guidelines, we expect something quite different from people joining ubuntu-core-dev
<mdz> in most cases, it makes more sense for folks to join MOTU first and work on packaging there, but if you joined MOTU, it probably wouldn't change your workflow at all
<rtg> would you expect me to restrict my uploads to a core set of packages?
<mdz> you'd still need to get the same kind of sponsorship
<mdz> so I'm hesitant to recommend an incremental step which wouldn't make your life any easier
<mdz> sabdfl: what are your thoughts?
<mdz> rtg: in general, no
<rtg> mdz: I think I lost the thread. Are you saying I don't need core-dev?
<mdz> rtg: since ubuntu-core-dev carries privileges to touch *every* core package, we expect core developers to have demonstrated that they can work with a variety of non-trivial packages
<sabdfl> we don't have the infrastructure to support this right now
<mdz> rtg: I'm saying that you're highlighting a shortcoming of our existing team structure
<sabdfl> the suggestion in the past has been to create the ability to approve someone as an uploader of a specific set of packages
<sabdfl> they could collaborate with motu or core-dev on just those
<mdz> in the past, we've sometimes dealt with this situation with a sort of limited mandate
<rtg> mdz: That would work for me 'cause I'm really only interested in a few packages.
<sabdfl> as their interest and ability expanded, they could become a full MOTU or core-dev
<mdz> basically doing what sabdfl says, but with social mechanisms rather than technical ones
<rtg> In practice, how many core-devs upload stuff just willy nilly?
<rtg> don't they always cooperate with maintainers?
<sabdfl> you'd be amazed!
<sabdfl> especially since we don't really have designated maintainers
<sabdfl> so it's not always clear who they should collaborate with
<mdz> there is currently a shortage of kernel team members who can upload the kernel, and you've shown that you can do that, so I want to find an arrangement which would work
<rtg> the kernel team already has a social mechanism in place for the packages we deal with.
<sabdfl> it takes time for folks to learn the ubuntu way
<rtg> I promise not to upload anything outside the sphere of my responsibilities.
<mdz> rtg: it's true, part of what we want to be sure of is that a core developer won't make changes they're uncertain of without getting advice
<rtg> I'd be too worried about stepping on someones toes.
<mdz> rtg: which set of packages would that be?
<mdz> see, even if we had a per-package mechanism, it would be pretty limiting
<rtg> mdz: all of the kernel and dependent packages, plus a few related packages.
<rtg> its a finite set.
<mdz> Keybuk,mjg59: I'd appreciate your input on this as well, since it's not a straightforward case
<mdz> I know it's late, but we're almost finished
<mjg59> Given that Tim can already commit to the kernel, I'm not convinced that letting him upload arbitrary packages is actually any more dangerous
<mdz> it's true, he already has root on all of our boxen
<mdz> but the same could be said of anyone with commit access to a package branch, and many upstreams, so it's an awkward precedent
<rtg> mdz: I only have root on a few, not all.
<mjg59> I certainly agree that it would be advantageous to have a more fine-grained setup here
<mdz> rtg: you commit changes to the source code for the kernel I run on all my computers :-)
<mjg59> But I'm not sold on the idea that we should block people from being able to get work done until that happens
<mdz> mjg59: I agree, so I'd like to find a solution
<rtg> mdz: I see your point. I guess I don't think deviously enough.
<mdz> our attention is wandering due to the marathon meeting
<mjg59> Indeed
<mdz> but I'm going to propose that we consider you for core-dev membership with a proviso for kernel work
<mdz> rather than general package maintenance
<rtg> that certainly works for me.
<mdz> Keybuk,sabdfl,mjg59: is that workable?
<sabdfl> +1 on the idea of a limited mandate. i have a separate question, for when this thread is done.
<sabdfl> rtg: if you could spend a few days with linus, andrew morton, greg k-h, building a better process between upstream linux and distro kernel teams, what would you recommend?
<mjg59> I'd have no issue with it
<Keybuk> +1 from me
<mdz> ok, a vote then
<rtg> sabdfl: I think Linus has a pretty good system in place.
<rtg> Its messy, but it works for a large number of folks.
<rtg> The distros should not be treated any different then the normal developer.
<mdz> [vote] ubuntu-core-dev application from Tim Gardner, with the stipulation that it would specifically enable him to upload kernel-related packages (and he'll tread lightly elsewhere)
<MootBot> Please vote on:  ubuntu-core-dev application from Tim Gardner, with the stipulation that it would specifically enable him to upload kernel-related packages (and he'll tread lightly elsewhere).
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<mjg59> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from mjg59. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<mdz> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from mdz. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<Keybuk> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from Keybuk. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<mdz> sabdfl: your +1, as I interpreted it, was only for the idea of considering a limited mandate
<mdz> sabdfl: could you vote on the application itself?
<mdz> ok, sabdfl abstains
<mdz> [endvote]
<MootBot> Final result is 3 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 3
<rtg> thanks, gentlemen.
<mdz> rtg: thanks.  if and when you think it's time, you can come back to us to revisit your mandate
<rtg> mdz: we are gonna have to deal with this same issue for other kenel devs.
<mdz> that's it for the applications.  I suggest that we defer the remainder of the agenda to the next meeting due to the late hour
<mdz> any objections?  none?  good
<mdz> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 22:39.
<Keybuk> :p
<sabdfl> thanks all
<emgent> @schedule
<ubotu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: 13 Feb 07:00: Platform Team | 13 Feb 13:00: Education Team | 13 Feb 21:00: Server Team | 13 Feb 22:30: Forum Council | 14 Feb 14:00: Desktop Team | 15 Feb 04:00: MOTU
<emgent> @schedule italy
<emgent> @schedule rome
<ubotu> Schedule for Europe/Rome: 13 Feb 08:00: Platform Team | 13 Feb 14:00: Education Team | 13 Feb 22:00: Server Team | 13 Feb 23:30: Forum Council | 14 Feb 15:00: Desktop Team | 15 Feb 05:00: MOTU
#ubuntu-meeting 2008-02-13
* ubotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 13 Feb 07:00 UTC: Platform Team | 13 Feb 13:00 UTC: Education Team | 13 Feb 20:00 UTC: Security Team | 13 Feb 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 13 Feb 22:30 UTC: Forum Council | 14 Feb 14:00 UTC: Desktop Team
<bmk789> @schedule EST
<ubotu> Schedule for EST: 13 Feb 02:00: Platform Team | 13 Feb 08:00: Education Team | 13 Feb 15:00: Security Team | 13 Feb 16:00: Server Team | 13 Feb 17:30: Forum Council | 14 Feb 09:00: Desktop Team
<keescook> @schedule PST
<keescook> @schedule US/Pacific
<ubotu> Schedule for US/Pacific: 12 Feb 23:00: Platform Team | 13 Feb 05:00: Education Team | 13 Feb 12:00: Security Team | 13 Feb 13:00: Server Team | 13 Feb 14:30: Forum Council | 14 Feb 06:00: Desktop Team
<keescook> sweet
<emgent> :)
<emgent> @schedule rome
<ubotu> Schedule for Europe/Rome: 13 Feb 08:00: Platform Team | 13 Feb 14:00: Education Team | 13 Feb 21:00: Security Team | 13 Feb 22:00: Server Team | 13 Feb 23:30: Forum Council | 14 Feb 15:00: Desktop Team
<emgent> cool
<scott21> register cttnmth21
<scott21>      /msg nickserv set hide email on
 * calc thought staying up to 1am would be easy, heh
 * calc thinks he should take a nap next time
 * bryce hands calc some coffee and toothpicks for the eyelids
* ubotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Platform Team Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 13 Feb 13:00 UTC: Education Team | 13 Feb 20:00 UTC: Security Team | 13 Feb 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 13 Feb 22:30 UTC: Forum Council | 14 Feb 14:00 UTC: Desktop Team
<calc_> hi
<evand> good morning
<bryce> heya
<TheMuso> Hi guys.
 * slangasek waves
<ArneGoetje> hi
<cjwatson> good morning
 * ogra yawns
<asac> hi
<TheMuso> Now you guys know how I felt the last couple of weeks. :)
<doko> good morning (although I have to leave in 10min)
<cjwatson> doko: ping?
<cjwatson> aha
<cjwatson> oh, and of course you're on vacation
<slangasek> TheMuso: you had a nasty sinus cold the last couple of weeks?  My condolences :)
<cjwatson> right, let's get started then
<cjwatson> first off, congratulations to TheMuso for making ubuntu-core-dev last night
 * ogra applauds
 * asac hugs TheMuso 
<cjwatson> this and others brings ubuntu-core-dev past the 50 mark
<ogra> yay
<evand> congrats!
<TheMuso> Is that 50 active core-devs?
<slangasek> \o/
<ArneGoetje> congrats!
<bryce> congrats TheMuso
<TheMuso> Thanks folks.
<cjwatson> TheMuso: I'm not sure I'd go THAT fra
<cjwatson> far
 * TheMuso scores. :p
<cjwatson> looking down the list, I think maybe 45 or so are what I'd call active
<TheMuso> Was just wondering, I didn't mean for people to check.
<cjwatson> so, feature freeze
<ogra> gah, he said the bad word
<cjwatson> we have one day to go, and it's time to look down the list and figure out what's done, what should get an exception for some reason, and what we should defer
<ArneGoetje> exception until when?
<calc> april 17?
<calc> ;-)
<TheMuso> lol
<ogra> only for openoffice
<cjwatson> exceptions are usually for where there's a clear plan to completion (and usually a fixed end date), low risk, and usually not for too long since they eat into time available for other work
 * evand had been thinking FF was Friday.  Argh.
<cjwatson> evand: last thing Thursday, in my book
<evand> cjwatson: you're correct, I had been running off of false memory rather than checking the wiki.
<ogra> valentine freeze
<ogra> easy menmonic
<evand> heh
<cjwatson> let's run down the roster; I hope folks have a summary prepared
<cjwatson> asac: you first
<doko_> cjwatson: please me first
<asac> cjwatson: ffox transition as main browser should be done by that time. last upstream version not :)
<asac> network-manager started to prepare 0.6.6 (0.6.6 RC1 has been released yesterday) ... so I assume we want an exception for that as well
<cjwatson> oh, sorry
<cjwatson> doko_: yes, go ahead
 * asac holds back
<doko_> toolchain: completed (outstanding is gfortran transition for universe; do we want to propose that for MOTU)?
<doko_> dist-compiler-flags: uploaded, first breakage fixed.
<cjwatson> happy for universe transitions to extend past feature freeze if MOTU are happy with the scope of the work
<doko_> robust-python-upgrades: will probably not upload tomorrow, but on Friday/Saturday
<doko_> java-for-main: still based on gcj, discussions about openjdk are going on
<cjwatson> slangasek: are you ok with the python upgrade work stretching out an extra day or two?
<slangasek> yes, I'm comfortable with that
<doko_> thanks
<cjwatson> doko_: ok, go :-)
<doko_> sorry, have to leave
<asac> bye doko_
<asac> ok i think i should continue?
<cjwatson> argh, the problem with this time is that it intersects with my mirror update ;-)
<cjwatson> asac: yes please
<asac> ok ... so network-manager might see a new upstrewam version after FF (upstream plans to release by end of Feb), but its merely a bug-fix release
<cjwatson> I think we knew in advance that we probably wouldn't have fx3 final by FF
<asac> and our network-manager already carries a load of cherry-picks that would go into 0.6.6
<cjwatson> oh, new upstream in the 0.6 series?
<asac> yeah ... unexpected. appeared after some mailing list discussion
<asac> ubufox: we will have an ubufox for firefox 3 in time for FF (its completed). If we want to get a shiny new system-extension integration we need a FF exception. sorry, but firefox code didn't have the required bits to work on this seriously until recently.
<asac> but its in-house development ... if that matters
<cjwatson> system-extension => teaching firefox how to install extensions that are packaged as .debs
<asac> right
<asac> you will see what i mean with the beta 3 upload
<cjwatson> it would be a regression from gutsy if we didn't have that
<asac> you can now search for extensions in the addons-dialog
<cjwatson> we marketed that quite strongly
<asac> cjwatson: read what i said: we will have ubufox with the same featurees for FF
<asac> e.g. you can now click on the lnk that opens package manager
<cjwatson> oh, what does "shiny new" indicate then?
<asac> cjwatson: that our package search is directly integrated in their addons search
<slangasek> and how far along is that effort today?
<asac> this depends heavily on my over all work load
<asac> http://people.ubuntu.com/~asac/Add-ons.png
<asac> http://people.ubuntu.com/~asac/AddonsResults.png
<asac> i think it will take a week of work if nothing else pops up and some upstream code changes
<asac> to make our extensions display in the same list
<cjwatson> as opposed to in the separate "Ubuntu Addons" tab?
<asac> no ... as opposed to a link in the bottom that opens the package manager (like what we have in ffox 2)
<cjwatson> ah, right
<asac> the other option is to display the package manager in a separate tab
<asac> i evaluated that as well, but the amount of work should be more or less the same
<asac> -> http://people.ubuntu.com/~asac/AddonsEmbedded.png (thats the gnome-app-install as a plugin prototype)
<cjwatson> my experience with using xembed for things has generally not been great in the long run, so that wouldn't be my favoured option
 * evand chuckles over gparted
<asac> yeah ... the right way is to integrate our search results in the main search io
<asac> imo
<cjwatson> asac: how are things looking for you for the bug-fix part of the cycle? obviously my main concern is that further feature work eats into your time for stabilisation
<cjwatson> so it depends on our comfort level with that
<slangasek> it sounds to me like it would be better to postpone these UI enhancements, given that there's a fair amount of work left to be done and you're likely to have your hands full with ff3 and NM, without also having to worry about fixing bugs in the new UI
<slangasek> but perhaps I misjudge, and updates to newer FF3 upstream releases will be a walk in the park :-)
<asac> i agree to some degree. my priority is: fix xulrunner + NM issues
<asac> only then do these UI enhancements to ubufox
<asac> slangasek: updates won't be a problem
<asac> the main problem is that epiphany upstream refuses to work on anything mozilla related nowadays so i have to do all the upstream work to fix the major blockers
<cjwatson> how are the rest of the xulrunner issues looking?
<cjwatson> I gather OOo is nearly there
<asac> cjwatson: xulrunner looks decent imo
<asac> our packaging rocks for ffox 3 and xulrunner ... only thing that might cause work is that upstream has not yet committed to freeze api/abi ... so there might be respins needed
<cjwatson> do we have a means of detecting ABI changes, or are we reliant on people reporting breakage?
<asac> breakage for now ... but we see breakage early due to ffox/xul split
<cjwatson> ok, I think we're going to have to move on, let's come back to ubufox UI changes if we get a chance later
<cjwatson> thanks for the details
<cjwatson> ArneGoetje: you're up
<asac> thanks
<ArneGoetje> langpack-o-matic is ready for merge and testing
<ArneGoetje> I disabled the package split for zh-cn and zh-tw though...
<ArneGoetje> that means the installer won't need to be changed for now
<ArneGoetje> I will ping pitti later to let him take a look
<cjwatson> ok, has pitti looked at any of it so far?
<ArneGoetje> seems not... he let me do the testing on my machine... :)
<cjwatson> heh
<ArneGoetje> however, locally it works.
<cjwatson> ok, that really ought to go into the archive today
<ArneGoetje> ok
<cjwatson> similarly with cjk-unifonts work?
<ArneGoetje> I didn't have time however to pursue on the language-selector changes and the font-selector though... so for language-selector would probably need an exception. font-selector maybe needs to be deferred...
<ArneGoetje> cjk-unifonts is almost ready for upload.
<cjwatson> font-selector was a bit of a late addition anyway, nice though it would be
<ArneGoetje> I'm currently fixing some bitmaps in the uming font and will then do the packaging
<cjwatson> the language-selector work seems needed in order to take full advantage of the language pack changes
<ArneGoetje> I expect to upload the new package tonight
<cjwatson> which I think is something we want so we have flexibility later
<ArneGoetje> yes
<cjwatson> how much more is to be done there?
<ArneGoetje> I'm not sure... need to consult with mvo
<ArneGoetje> (he wrote the code, I'm just a coding newbie)
<cjwatson> ok, I'll grab mvo later on today and find out what's happening there, if you don't beat me to it
<cjwatson> ArneGoetje: thanks
<cjwatson> bryce: ?
<bryce> ok
<ArneGoetje> ok, I will ask him too
<bryce> * autoconfigure-monitor-frequency:   100% done.
<bryce> * multi-monitor-config:              75% done.
<bryce> * x-testing-infrastructure:          25% done.  Not FF-critical
<bryce> * monitor-settings-database-online:  Postponed to Hardy+1
<bryce> * hardy-console:                     Reassigned
<bryce> multi-monitor-config (aka Xrandr GUI) is coming along well, but will need a few more days until it's ready for upload.  Relatively recent screenshot:  http://bryceharrington.org/files/screenrez_9.png
<bryce> Part 1 was extending libxrandr; this is done.  I talked to Keith Packard about taking it upstream; he says he'd rather see it implemented as an independent library.  That's going to take another 2-3 days though.  I decided to press on with getting something functional, and will come back to that later.
<bryce> Part 2 is the GUI itself.  This is about half done, and will take a few more days before its functional enough to be uploaded.  I'm hoping to get here by Thursday, but it might take another day or two beyond that.
<bryce> Part 3 is basically lots of testing against different configs.  :-)
<bryce> x-testing-infrastructure has no components that need uploaded to Hardy, so I've postponed focusing on it for the time being.
<bryce> There is some remaining work to do with input-hotplug and hal support.  Timo is going to look into what's needed and will let me know if my help is needed there.
<bryce> Inkscape's pre-release has been uploaded.  Final version will come in 2-3 weeks.  Inkscape's in feature freeze, so it'll just be bug fixes from here on out.
<cjwatson> I'm concerned about input hotplug and hal; if that's changing, we need notice as it's going to be moderately complex to handle in the installer
<cjwatson> I think at this point we should probably stick with the input configuration mechanisms we've got, unless it lands by tomorrow
<bryce> cjwatson: okay
<bryce> cjwatson: I will check this with timo
<bryce> all the other stuff on my todo list is either bugs or other stuff that can be postponed until after freeze.
<cjwatson> multi-monitor-config is sexy enough in potential that I'd like to allow a few more days
<bryce> great, that'll help a lot
 * slangasek agrees
<bryce> I don't know why someone else hasn't already done this work, but it's definitely something that everyone has been expecting for a while
<cjwatson> I'll have to poke mjg59 about the hardy-console kernel bit again, bit concerned about that
<cjwatson> let's move on
<cjwatson> bryce: thanks
<cjwatson> calc: you're up
 * bryce nods
<calc> lzma is pretty much ready aiui, i uploaded test OOo lzma source today
<calc> i think they may end up rolling it out tomorrow, but i am not certain
<cjwatson> kiko has told me they'll cherry-pick the required LP change rather than having us break feature freeze fo rit
<cjwatson> for it
<calc> i am working on converting OOo over to use xulrunner-1.9 which will be uploaded along with the lzma fix (hopefully)
<cjwatson> (and with that I think I'm definitely all out of LP team credit)
<calc> s/fix/usage/
<calc> heh
<asac> calc: great.
<cjwatson> ooo-langpacks hasn't happened, right?
<calc> cjwatson: no
<calc> cjwatson: deferred to splitting of source
<calc> which i will be concentrating on more as i get more time
<cjwatson> ok
<calc> also working with hsqldb upstream on a patch to correct the security misfeature, i verified the versions he wanted to use work and just waiting to get the patch from him at this point
<cjwatson> for cd-reduction we'll have to see how things look once the alternates have lzma packaging
<calc> yes
<cjwatson> that's good news
<calc> once we have lzma done i can go about adding lzma compression to various bits if you would like
<cjwatson> did you get the useless en_GB bits stripped out of the English langpacks?
<cjwatson> that we identified in Cambridge
<calc> i'll have to go back and check that to make sure
<calc> i think i did, but i don't recall for certain at the moment
 * calc adds that to his todo list to verify
<calc> i think that is all, but i may be leaving out something
<cjwatson> that one looked like low-hanging fruit, so we should grab it if we can
<cjwatson> calc: ok, thanks
<cjwatson> evand: your turn
<calc> yea, i will check it before uploading the next set of debs
<evand>  * UbuntuSpec:ubiquity-preserve-home : Major bug needs to be fixed and
<evand> tested, but otherwise done.
<evand>  * UbuntuSpec:hardy-ubiquity-usability : Need to finish merging and
<evand> refining new tzmap.  Keyboard selection, time estimates, and auto-resize
<evand> text need to be done.  These are smaller tasks.
<evand>  * UbuntuSpec:hardy-ubiquity-reliability : Need to finish "repeat steps
<evand> on failure" and merge in file copy integrity check work.  Need to add
<evand> retry dialog for the bootloader and finish porting the rest of the
<evand> bootloader work to Kubuntu.  Insufficient file space check needs polish.
<evand>  * UbuntuSpec:encrypted-filesystems : Deferred, discussed at previous
<evand> meeting.
<evand>  * UbuntuSpec:installer-for-windows : Done, just a matter of fixing
<evand> bugs.
<evand>  * UbuntuSpec:gobuntu-hardy : Haven't spoke to Kurt about the status.
<evand> Will follow up for next meeting.
<evand> The bug in ubiquity-preserve-home wont take long to fix.  But I'd like to test it thoroughly before uploading that again.
<evand> My biggest concern is the new tzmap.  If possible, I'd like to have the weekend to finish it.  I can make ubiquity switch between it and the old tzmap with a flag, so it can be easily backed out, if necessary.
<evand> The rest should be doable by tomorrow night.
<cjwatson> with the lack of development work on Gobuntu, we may have to do something drastic there
<cjwatson> (but that's not your problem)
<cjwatson> slangasek: what do you think about the timezone map UI changes? I'm too close to it. The reason it's being considered is that it's what's needed to make the installer fit in smaller screen sizes, which is a major source of confusion and bugs
<evand> anything I didn't mention is done or about to be uploaded
<cjwatson> though I think the things Evan mentioned under reliability are larger sources of bugs and higher priority
<evand> indeed, that's exactly why I want to push the tzmap into the weekend -- so I can spend the remaining time on the reliabilty spec
<cjwatson> evand: the map doesn't have to be in its absolute final form for FF, of course, just good enough
<evand> well, that will happen either way
<evand> cjwatson: ok
<slangasek> it sounds like the higher-prio stuff is well in hand, and I agree that the TZ map UI is a big deal for usability on smaller screens
<slangasek> so I think an exception through the weekend is fair
<evand> fantastic, thanks slangasek
<cjwatson> ok
<cjwatson> evand: thanks for the hard work on installer-for-windows, in particular
<evand> you're welcome, though I mostly enjoyed it.  I think we're set to grab a whole new class of users with that feature.
<cjwatson> I should slot in myself at this point
<cjwatson> hardy-bootloader-review: Most of the hard work done; still need to make menu item changes and apply some visual tweaks. Should be able to do most of the rest today.
<cjwatson> apt-authentication-reliability (mostly mvo): done
<cjwatson> networkless-installation-fixes (mostly mvo): done except for adding a progress bar to apt-setup for the 'apt-get update' stage, which was already tried in Debian and caused some problems; this probably won't happen
<cjwatson> and of course the seed reorganisation, which happened on Monday night and should relieve us from merge busywork in future; that was also a prerequisite for edubuntu-addon, coming up later ...
<cjwatson> TheMuso: anything from you?
<TheMuso> initramfs error handling: Essentially done minus the update-manager part, but waiting on kees to get back to me re implementatino and mdadm, however he is still catching up on email, so this may not happen for a while, and I don't think this is critical.
<TheMuso> However, there is a new merge of initramfs-tools and lvm2 that need to be done, and I don't feel up to doing what appear to be rather big merges at this point, so if someone wants to do them, I can pass on my spec work to add to the packages.
<TheMuso> Still looking at dmraid, and doing testing, however since its universe, can easily push it in as an addition later, or at the most, get an exception for it for a few days, once I've had a chance to install, integrate into initramfs error handling, and test.
<cjwatson> TheMuso: first step is to get whatever parts of the feature work you're comfortable with so far uploaded
<cjwatson> it doesn't all have to go in one giant upload
<TheMuso> If we are keen on possibly gettind dmraid in, there is also a new upstream version that might be worth uploading. I can take cae of that if we want it.
<TheMuso> cjwatson: ok
<cjwatson> on initramfs-tools merging, it's rather late and we may want to consider just backporting the stuff we need
<cjwatson> dmraid will need to go to main if it's going to be useful
<TheMuso> Fair call. What about lvm? From what I remember, there is a new upstream version.
<TheMuso> cjwatson: Yeah I know re dmraid, which is why I'm willing to help test and integrate with error handling.
<cjwatson> TheMuso: once you have some basic testing of dmraid done, would you deal with the main inclusion review? now that you're -core-dev you can take that over from evand :-)
<TheMuso> As I happen to have the hardware that makes use of fakeraid.
<cjwatson> s/review/report/
<TheMuso> cjwatson: Sure, can do.
<cjwatson> what's the reasoning for looking at the new upstream of lvm2?
<TheMuso> But I don't think its worth doing till we've got the partman-dmraid bugs worked out.
<TheMuso> Oh I thought it may be desirable thats all.
<TheMuso> I didn't dig any deeper, was just looking through what Debian has done since our version.
<cjwatson> only if there are compelling improvements
<TheMuso> Fair enough. Unless someone wants to look into it, I say just leave it.
<cjwatson> ok, thanks
<cjwatson> ogra: ?
<TheMuso> np
<ogra> classmate:
<ogra>  * image creator -> freeze releveant stuff (packages) done, final changes on builder scripts pending until packages are in the archive
<ogra>  * usb suspend kernel fixes -> no feedback from amitk yet, will hunt him down this week
<ogra>  * theft protection -> behind on that, will need some more days ...
<ogra> .
<ogra> edubuntu-content-server:
<ogra>  * behind, needs exception (doable until the weekend i think)
<ogra> .
<ogra> edubuntu-addon-cd:
<ogra>  * seed integration between edubuntu and ubuntu ongoing
<ogra>  * debian-cd changes pending
<ogra> .
<ogra> ltsp:
<ogra>  * upstream reorganization in ldm and ltspfs are finished as well now, new versions packaged
<ogra>  * a majority of the open LP bugs closed (still 38 open though)
<ogra>  * ldm CK integration will still need some love on the CK side (local vs. non-local sessions)
<ogra> .
<ogra> edubuntu-and-italc (classroom management):
<ogra>  * not officially approved boston spec stgraber worked on with massive success, he reworked the whole italc UI, made it compatible with ltsp5 as well as recent VNC with massive upstream participation (not something that eats much of my personal time apart from testing the package, but that huge effort should be mentioned somewhere :) )
<ogra> .
<ogra> packages:
<ogra>  sabayon and tuxtype had new releases that incorporate plenty of fixes i'd like in hardy, so i'd like to ask for freeze exceptions for these (both are edubuntu packages, sabayon follows the gnome schedule loosely)
<ogra> I'm mortified about the theft protection thing, it somehow slipped off all my todo lists and when i remembered it last night i recognized the upload from intel is broken ... :(
<calc> my connection is bouncing :-\
<cjwatson> theft protection is only going to appear in classmate, so feature freeze only applies insofar as slipping it takes away from your bug-fixing time
<ogra> well, i'd like to not have ppa's in the classmate sources.list
<ogra> oh
<cjwatson> ogra: I'll grab you today and we can do the edubuntu-addon integration
<ogra> i misread
<ogra> oki
<ogra> i have edubuntu meeting at 12:00 UTC
<cjwatson> ogra: openssh CK integration is needed for ltsp, right?
<ogra> right
<cjwatson> so I had probably better upload that :)
<ogra> well, the ssh side of things seems fine
<ogra> with your patches
<ogra> CK isnt yet
<cjwatson> CK upstream acked it and seemed happy except that he thought the need to make the session explicitly active was a CK bug
<cjwatson> but we can live with that
<ogra> its not about active/inactive, its about local/nonlocal
<cjwatson> ogra: please deal with sabayon and tuxtype in the usual way by mail to the RM if those are after FF
<ogra> will do
<ogra> the general concept of CK doesnt allow administrative tasks for non local sessions as i understood it
<ogra> i have the session listed in CK and marked active
<cjwatson> well, policykit disallows it
<ogra> anyway, that doesnt belong here
<cjwatson> CK doesn't inherently say anything about it
<cjwatson> ogra: either way, right now, you can work around it by running the admin tools as root, which will tell policykit to just let you through already
<ogra> ah, right, s/CK/polkit/
<cjwatson> (I know I said earlier that that wasn't needed any more ...)
<cjwatson> ogra: please make sure there's a bug filed on policykit about ltsp's needs here
<ogra> right, well, i'd like it fixed somehow, but yes thast a feasable workaround
<ogra> will do
<cjwatson> ogra: what's left in edubuntu-content-server?
<ogra> everything, but thats an afternoon fingertraining ... its actually only an empty metapackage for now with deps on the needed packages
<ogra> i can probably do it today if i have time left
<cjwatson> ogra: ok, thanks
<cjwatson> slangasek: last up
<slangasek> grub-configuration-improvements: in beta since shortly before alpha 4, have a couple of bugs yet to stomp out but looking good for FF
<slangasek> larger-livefs: RT opened requesting more disk space on the livefs buildds to accomodate building another set of images for the DVDs; it seems unlikely that the buildd that's tight on disk space now will have more available by FF, but I expect to be able to have something in place for the other arch before Thursday
<cjwatson> which arch is which there?
<slangasek> double-checking
<slangasek> i386 has space, amd64 does not
<cjwatson> that's a good way round
 * slangasek nods
<slangasek> cjwatson: if we have it going for i386 in time, would it be ok to enable this for amd64 post-FF when the resources become available?
<cjwatson> PAM auth we deferred, IIRC
<slangasek> yes
<cjwatson> I think so, if the idea is confirmed to work on i386
<cjwatson> also, I would like to mutter vaguely about user percentages
<cjwatson> anything else of concern to you for FF?
<slangasek> heh
<slangasek> not of personal concern, no :)
* ubotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 13 Feb 13:00 UTC: Education Team | 13 Feb 20:00 UTC: Security Team | 13 Feb 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 13 Feb 22:30 UTC: Forum Council | 14 Feb 14:00 UTC: Desktop Team | 15 Feb 04:00 UTC: MOTU
<cjwatson> and I think ubotu is hinting to us that we're over-time
<slangasek> seems to be :-)
<cjwatson> all right, AOB?
<asac> just quick for my actions from last week: i couldn't verify that icedtea java doesn't work work on amd64 ( i tested a pbuilder build first and then the bits in the archive and both worked fine for me). so lets review if we can send j2se1.4 to graveyard next week i guess
<asac> for vpn plugins in main, soren said: "Last I checked, they never even had a proper release. I've always just grabbed a random svn checkout."
<asac> so most likely this is a no go for main inclusion
<evand> :( oh well.  Thanks for looking into it asac .
<cjwatson> asac: was that just vpnc, or openvpn too?
<asac> i could upstream upstream list on release policy though - if we want.
<asac> cjwatson: for both iirc
<cjwatson> asac: it's worth contacting them even if it doesn't make this release, I think
<asac> ok will do
<cjwatson> asac: did you get anything sorted with regard to 1.4's buildability?
<cjwatson> you were to upload it to a PPA if you couldn't fix the build locally
<asac> cjwatson: well given that i couldn't verify that icedtea doesn't work (which was the reason to look into resurrecting 1.4) i didn't put more resources in that
<asac> was that a wrong judgement?
<cjwatson> a useful extra data point, is all
<asac> ok, i can upload ppa then (though i think we should seriously consider to refer to icedtea as our java plugin for amd64)
<cjwatson> I would like to, I'm just conscious that people have evolved personal preferences here so it would be nice to have strong reasoning for dropping things
<cjwatson> ok, anything else before we adjourn?
<asac> well, i doubt that anyone would have preference for this broken 1.4 plugin. but anyway, will do
<asac> ok
<cjwatson> going ... going ...
<asac> ;)
<cjwatson> adjourned, thanks all
<ogra> thanks
<asac> thanks!
<evand> thanks
<ArneGoetje> thank
<ArneGoetje> s
<bryce> thanks
<slangasek> thanks :)
<TheMuso> thanks
 * TheMuso goes to fetch dinner.
<dholbach> @now
<ubotu> Current time in Etc/UTC: February 13 2008, 11:32:03 - Next meeting: Education Team in 1 hour 27 minutes
<dholbach> @schedule berlin
<ubotu> Schedule for Europe/Berlin: 13 Feb 14:00: Education Team | 13 Feb 21:00: Security Team | 13 Feb 22:00: Server Team | 13 Feb 23:30: Forum Council | 14 Feb 15:00: Desktop Team | 15 Feb 05:00: MOTU
<RichEd> hi ... who's here at the moment for the edubuntu/education meeting ?
<emgent> @schedule rome
<ubotu> Schedule for Europe/Rome: 13 Feb 14:00: Education Team | 13 Feb 21:00: Security Team | 13 Feb 22:00: Server Team | 13 Feb 23:30: Forum Council | 14 Feb 15:00: Desktop Team | 15 Feb 05:00: MOTU
<emgent> RichEd, wait one hour :P
<RichEd> emgent ? any special reason why ?
<emgent> RichEd,  13 Feb 14:00: Education Team
<emgent> (13.00 in italy)
 * stgraber waves
<RichEd> strange ... looks like the fridge event was put in an hour late
<RichEd> emgent: we normally kick off at 12h00 UTC ... which is now
<emgent> @schedule
<ubotu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: 13 Feb 13:00: Education Team | 13 Feb 20:00: Security Team | 13 Feb 21:00: Server Team | 13 Feb 22:30: Forum Council | 14 Feb 14:00: Desktop Team | 15 Feb 04:00: MOTU
<emgent> Etc/UTC: 13 Feb 13:00: Education Tea
<emgent> seems to star at 13.00 UTC
<RichEd> emgent: yep ... same as the fridge event ... looks like the event creator shifted the time out
 * RichEd is confident about what time it *usually* is supposed to start since ogra and me manage the meetings :)
<emgent> :)
<RichEd> ogra: you around & about ?
 * RichEd suggets then that we move the meeting to the *advertised* time slot
<RichEd> == edubuntu/education meeting = will commence in an hour ==
<RichEd> (sorry guys ... the fridge schedule was incorrect ... we'll stick to the schedule)
* ubotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Education Team Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 13 Feb 20:00 UTC: Security Team | 13 Feb 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 13 Feb 22:30 UTC: Forum Council | 14 Feb 14:00 UTC: Desktop Team | 15 Feb 04:00 UTC: MOTU
<RichEd> === edubuntu/education meeting = in 2 mins ===
<RichEd> if you are here for the education meeting, say hi ... ogra does not seem to be available ... the meeting will probably be quite short with no tech
<ogra> 'm here now
<ogra> sorry, i worked through the night and had to get 3h of sleep, else i wouldnt survive the day
<ogra> so, geature freeze is tomorrow
<ogra> *feature even
<RichEd> ogra: suspected that you were busy busy busy with that :)
<ogra> yeah, i was ... last night
<RichEd> quick tech report ? ... we will not keep you from either your desk or bed ... whichever calls the loudest
<ogra> ltsp is the latest and greatest ... i could close about 30 bugs after i had the three packages sorted :)
<RichEd> stgraber: you around ? and highvoltage ?
<ogra> and there are more to come :)
<ogra> italc is uploaded
<RichEd> ogra: :) good stuff
<RichEd> on both LTSP and italc
<RichEd> thanks due to stgraber for his work on that
<ogra> yeah
<ogra> he's a hero
<ogra> fro sabayon i already anounced that i'll file a freeze exception (will do so later today) so we can get the upstream fixes in
<ogra> laser is concentrating on getting squeak in shape atm
 * highvoltage is here
<highvoltage> (thanks for the hilight)
<ogra> which is also important for the OLPC guys
<ogra> since they do a lot in squeak
<ogra> (which is quite weird since sqeak isnt free)
<highvoltage> (not yet anyway?)
<ogra> well, seems it as four different copyright holders and licenses
<highvoltage> ouch.
<ogra> getting that sorted will take quite a while
<alkisg> (thanks for italc! - a school teacher :))
<highvoltage> :)
<ogra> alkisg, as stated before, send flowers to stgraber, he deserves 100% credit for that :)
<highvoltage> RichEd: could we start blogging/getting the word out about edubuntu being an add-on, and the benefits about that?
<ogra> right
<ogra> CD changes
<RichEd> highvoltage: indeed you can ... and we'd like that very much
<highvoltage> ok, cool
<ogra> colin has changed germinate and the seed design over the last days
<ogra> i cleaned up and prepared the seeds
<RichEd> there *will* be some confusion, and concern at the changes ... so the more info we can get out in a human friendly discussion before we get to release, the better
<ogra> during the next days we'll change the dependency chain for the metapackages and seeds and then we're ready to go
<RichEd> what would also be good, is if someone could do a fresh install of ubuntu + add-on and blog about it, and compare it to the "old way"
<ogra> so i finally expect to have the proper setup by alpha5
<RichEd> especially an LTSP install
<RichEd> ogra: at UDS you were concerned about the "extra workload" anticipated due to the change
<RichEd> but lately, you've been saying it is in fact reduced
<ogra> well
<ogra> there is a lot extra workload ahead ...
<ogra> there will be bugs
<ogra> and time to fix them is short
<RichEd> does this new structure work better for you now once it is bedded down
<ogra> sure
<RichEd> assuming the bugs are from the transition, which should be a once off leap to the left
<ogra> all i'll have to maintain for edubuntu is a list of edu desktop packages and the server seed
<ogra> (currently my seeds contain 14 files of which i maintain 6 ... one of them is nearly identical to ubuntu-desktop)
<RichEd> and how is the "handover" of LTSP etc. is that now in a general distro area, or is it still effectively you ?
<ogra> thats still effectively me and i guess it will stay that way
<RichEd> and is it seen by the rest of the team as an "education special focus" or is it viewed more generally
<ogra> as long as i'm involved upstream that closely it will at least
<ogra> i dont think the rest of the team cares much about ltsp :)
<ogra> so i dont expect them to haven an opinion about edu or not here ...
<RichEd> okie
<ogra> (dont forget they will look at it from a tech POV with the "oh, thats cool technology" view)
<ogra> anyway, ltsp is still pending menu integration ... so that needs documentation (there are tw mails on the ML already with instructions)
<ogra> s/tw/two/
<ogra> the experience will be different for users until thats done
<ogra> (vs edubuntu now)
<ogra> btw tonights iso should be intresting to test ... i havent tested all changes yet :)
<ogra> consolekit -> ldm integration is still not done ... worst case we'll need to run administrative apps with sudo on ltsp ... which is indeed quite suboptimal
<RichEd> ^do we have many people helping you with testing ?
<ogra> (consolekit is supposed to replace all the sudo stuff transaparently)
<RichEd> or is the answer the usual "not enough"
<ogra> well, there was not much to test wrt ltsp
<ogra> the changes i made are already two milestone builds old :)
<ogra> so the intresting time starts just now
<ogra> and indeed i can never have enough testers :)
<ogra> on the classmate front i uploaded the packages for all classmate specifics yesterday
<ogra> tehy sit in the NEW queue atm
<highvoltage> ogra: ooh, ooh, forgot to tell you
<ogra> highvoltage, congrats btw
<ogra> :)
<highvoltage> ogra: my classmate arrived last Thursday
<nixternal> mornin'!
<ogra> (i'm reading my backlog )
<ArM-eye> amon-ra everyone
<highvoltage> ogra: so if you want me to do any testing or work on that front, just say and your wish is my command!
<RichEd> hi nixternal ... how's the Edu chapter of the Big Book coming along ?
<nixternal> halfway through round 1
<nixternal> I should be finished up by this weekend with it
<ArM-eye> Do you want to read the reveal?
<ogra> highvoltage, did you try the gutsy image ?
<nixternal> I had one question though, will there still be a CD and a DVD, or just a CD now?
<highvoltage> ogra: not yet, where do I find it?
<ArM-eye> It involves biblical figures
<highvoltage> ogra: It was my birthday party on Friday night and I was a bit useless the weekend :)
<ArM-eye> yes or no?
<ArM-eye> it must not be given against will
<RichEd> ArM-eye: yes or no to which question above ?
<ArM-eye> Do you want to read the reveal?
<ogra> highvoltage, oh, you had on friday ? happy belated b-day then ... mine is on sat.
<highvoltage> thanks :)
<highvoltage> ooh, another aquarian
<ogra> yeah
<ArM-eye> I saw yes
<ogra> we rule the world :)
<ArM-eye> BEGINNITIO REVELATIONEM
<ArM-eye> DECODE BIBLIA
<ArM-eye> Revel - Abraham is associated with the Egyptian pharaoh Amenemhat I (translates: amen is the head) who worshiped the god Amun (Amen). Abraham god then be associated with in the Abrahamic religions god as amun, amon, omon, amen and the deity aamon. Abraham/Amenemhet I
<ogra> ArM-eye, can you stop that ? we have a meeting here
<ArM-eye> Revel - Jacob = King Yakubher
<ArM-eye> Revel - Moses = Thutmose III
<ArM-eye> Revel - David = Psusennes I
<ArM-eye> Revel - Solomon = Siamun (translates: son of amun)
<ArM-eye> Revel - James = Ptolemy Philadelphus
<ArM-eye> Revel - Thomas Judas Didymus = Alexander Helios
<RichEd> ArM-eye: we're actully in a meeting at the moment ... can we keep the religion out of here
<nixternal> !ops
<ubotu> Help! Seveas, Hobbsee, LjL, ompaulafk, Keybuk, mdz, sabdfl, janimo, ogra, mdke, dholbach, or jono
<ArM-eye> Revel - Mary Magdalene = Cleopatra Selene II
<ArM-eye> FINALIZE REVELATIONEM
<ArM-eye> BIBLIA CHARACTER 1
<ArM-eye> REVELATIONEM DE CHRISTUS
<ogra> oh, i'm an op
<ArM-eye> Revel - JESUS = CAESARION, Ptolemy XV, King of kings, little ceasar, Isa, Jesus
<nixternal> lol
<ArM-eye> The son of Julius Ceasar / Divine Julius and Clepatra VII / Goddes Isis
<ArM-eye> Married to his half sister at "wedding in cana"
<RichEd> ? can we get an op to boot the loony off the channel please ?
<nixternal> thanks mdz
<RichEd> thanks mdz
<ogra> mdz, thanks i was stil looking for the right IRC commands
<RichEd> right let's get back on track
<RichEd> ogra: any more tech ?
<ogra> edubuntu-content-server might slip the freeze, iasked for an exception though and i might get the skeleton done today stil
<ogra> (its actually only an empty package with dependencies for the start)
<ogra> thats it about tech ...
<RichEd> thanks ...
<RichEd> moving on then to docs ... nixternal you got any issues / questions
<RichEd> "<nixternal> I had one question though, will there still be a CD and a DVD, or just a CD now?"
<RichEd> ogra ^ accurate answer to that for nixternal
<ogra> hmm, good question
<ogra> i doubt we'll build a dedicated DVD
<nixternal> that's what I figured...I think that is the only question I had
<ogra> i can answer that later precisely ... but my gut feeling tells me thats not possible easily
<RichEd> ogra: *if* the add-on CD could at some stage be included on the ubuntu desktop DVD, would the add-on procedures work in the same way ?
<ogra> RichEd, no, we would have to adjust
<ogra> it would work in the same way in some areas but there would be stuff that needs love
<RichEd> ogra: well keep it in mind for UDS and a forward view towards 8.10
<RichEd> if we could get all the edu stuff included on the standard ubuntu DVD, then we'll have a much wider potential audience
<ogra> ok
<ogra> but space restrictions again
<RichEd> ogra: noted ... but if at least the main "selection options" were available ... then the rest could get pulled down across the net by the user
<ogra> currently the addon CD is filled 2/3 with langpacks we dont need ... if i drop them we'll have several 100MB
<RichEd> (in a simply selection via a nice GUI front end, and not command line)
<RichEd> nixternal: any other book questions
<ogra> well, you can do that today already
<RichEd> ?? explain ?
<ogra> (just install teh metapackages from the net)
<highvoltage> nixternal: can the book be previewed anywhere currently?
<nixternal> RichEd: that is it for now
<ogra> http://packages.ubuntu.com/cgi-bin/search_packages.pl?keywords=edubuntu-addon&searchon=names&subword=1&version=hardy&release=all
<nixternal> highvoltage: it is just updating the last books chapter...thus far it is just changes to the ways of getting, downloading, and installing Edubuntu 8.04 - Ubuntu Education Edition
<RichEd> nixternal: in addition to highvoltage's question, one from me ... will we have access to the edu doc stuff you are writing ?
<ogra> RichEd, ^^^
<nixternal> RichEd: I will check with Deb, but I am sure her or mako won't have a problem with that
 * RichEd loads ogra's link
<nixternal> I do know they don't want it public, that's all I was told
 * RichEd ponders creative commons and all of that
<nixternal> RichEd: that only applies after the release I guess
<RichEd> :)
<RichEd> ---
<RichEd> anyone else with issues / topics / questions ? we're heading up to the hour mark
<RichEd> ogra ? shall we wrap ?
<ogra> we could go on holding monologues :)
<RichEd> going Once ...
<ogra> but yes, lets wrap up :)
<RichEd> going Twice ...
 * RichEd looks around
<RichEd> and done ... thanks ogra and highvoltage and nixternal
<ogra> thanks
<RichEd> meeting over ... any other topics move back to #edubuntu
<highvoltage> thanks Riched, nixternal and ogra
<nixternal> np, thanks!
* ubotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 13 Feb 20:00 UTC: Security Team | 13 Feb 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 13 Feb 22:30 UTC: Forum Council | 14 Feb 14:00 UTC: Desktop Team | 15 Feb 04:00 UTC: MOTU | 20 Feb 01:00 UTC: TriLoCo-Midwest
<pedro_> hello!
<bdmurray> hello to you too
<liw> greetingses
<heno_> hi
<pedro_> hey hey
<nand> hi
<heno> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 16:00. The chair is heno.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<heno> Welcome all
<heno> agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Meetings
<highvoltage> hi heno
 * ogasawara is here
<heno> [TOPIC] Splitting hardy qa bug list into teams
<MootBot> New Topic:  Splitting hardy qa bug list into teams
<heno> hi highvoltage :)
<ogasawara> it's been on my todo list to split the list into teams, just haven't gotten around to it
<heno> ogasawara: do you need help with sorting the bugs, is it a manual process or will you get info from LP on bug contacts or something?
<bdmurray> ogasawara: is that in the bzr tree yet?
<ogasawara> heno: I'd prefer for it to not be a manual process :)  so was going to look at making it more automated first
<bdmurray> I think I've seen a "platform team" in launchpad now
<ogasawara> bdmurray: yes, it's in the bzr tree - well my branch in plb since the script doesn't require a separate text file to contain the list
<ogasawara> bdmurray: uses plb and sorts against the tag
<heno> so we can get platform, desktop, kernel and 'other'
<heno> or do we need more groups?
<heno> server perhaps
<bdmurray> Is the platform team confirmed?  I'm poking around now.
<bdmurray> Well, regardless there should be one. ;)
<heno> I'm just thinking a manual sort could be done in 20-30 minutes (but that won't be of any use in the next cycle of course)
<ogasawara> heno: agreed.  I'm just thinking going forward maintaining a manual sorted list will be a pain
<heno> ogasawara: It's your call; go with automation if you fell that's right and have a rough idea of how it could be done
<ogasawara> heno: I'll send everyone email if I run into any issues and need help
<heno> ok, great
<heno> next topic
<heno> [TOPIC] Revising the bug hint page to point at ReportingBugs. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/LpGuideText
<MootBot> New Topic:  Revising the bug hint page to point at ReportingBugs. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/LpGuideText
<heno> bdmurray: does that new version look OK to you?
<bdmurray> One reasonable thing I've heard is splitting 3 into 2 bits. so 3) what happened? 4) what you expected to happen?
<liw> in point 1, I would say System -> About Ubuntu first, cat second
<pedro_> i have al ittle concern with it
<liw> likewise in 2, I guess
<pedro_> oh liw yes that one
<heno> bdmurray: sounds fine
<bdmurray> The third paragraph I might add a bit how "Report a Problem" automatically does 1 and 2.
<heno> pedro_: was that your concern?
<pedro_> do you  find really useful the cat /etc/lsb-release ?
<pedro_> I've found that some reporters tend to submit that like "new shiny info"
<bdmurray> pedro_: The information regarding the release is valuable.  What are you getting at?
<pedro_> and re open bugs just because of that
<heno> bdmurray: without the text growing too much :)
<bdmurray> heno: right ;)
<pedro_> we've experience that last weeks at least
<bdmurray> pedro_: I'm not following do you have an example?
<pedro_> sure let me find one
<heno> I'm still not sure we need the command line versions there; can we move that to a wiki page this links to?
<heno> those who absolutely prefer that would know to use it
<heno> people running servers for example
<heno> The tighter the text the more likely it will be read
<liw> I'm fine with moving command line versions elsewhere
<pedro_> i'd really happy with that
<heno> 'dpkg -l PKGNAME | cat' will make many just skip reading the whole thing IMO
<bdmurray> When I talked to mpt about it he thought the command line versions were the best as they are the most accessible.
<bdmurray> Additionally, they are available across flavours of Ubuntu.
<liw> lots of people who need to read that text don't even know what a command line is and will go ga-ga if they see such stuff...
<heno> Yeah, I think we should over rule mpt on this point
<bdmurray> I think we should look at bug reports and see what the reaction has been rather than guessing.
<heno> people generally know that Synaptic is replaced by Adept if they use Kubuntu
<pedro_> liw: yes it confuse more than help them
<liw> then again, I go ga-ga myself, if there's more than four words or so
<liw> bdmurray, good point
<liw> bdmurray, although... people who go ga-ga might not be reporting problems at all anymore?
<heno> ok, let's implement the other suggestions and revisit this one at the next meeting
<heno> bdmurray: will you look at a sampling of bugs to see what we are getting?
<bdmurray> heno: sure
<heno> that will be interesting in any case
<bdmurray> maybe 100?
<pedro_> bug 187638
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 187638 in nautilus-sendto "package nautilus-sendto 0.13.1-0ubuntu1 failed to install/upgrade: unable to fill /var/lib/dpkg/updates/tmp.i with padding (dup-of: 187634)" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/187638
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 187634 in linux-restricted-modules-2.6.24 "package linux-restricted-modules-2.6.24-5-generic None failed to install/upgrade: failed in buffer_write(fd) (10, ret=-1)" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/187634
<pedro_> there's one reporter that's sending the same info with apport
<bdmurray> I wouldn't complain about having too much information
<pedro_> doing the cat lsb-release, so maybe we should write an exception on the filing bugs help about it
<heno> I would agree with that
<pedro_> i'm totally ok on getting the more info that's possible but replicate info isn't good
<heno> we'll let bdmurray make the case for leaving it in at the next meeting ;)
<heno> armed with data
<heno> ok, next topic
<heno> [TOPIC] Data gathering for Bugs/PathsToFile -- log analysis and survey
<MootBot> New Topic:  Data gathering for Bugs/PathsToFile -- log analysis and survey
<bdmurray> well system -> about ubuntu is wrong on hardy
<pedro_> bug 176678
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 176678 in ubuntu-docs "Startup page for firefox states "Welcome to Ubuntu 7.10!" when it should say "Welcome to Ubuntu 8.04 (alpha 1)!" " [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/176678
<bdmurray> That should really happen right at the beginning of the development cycle.
<heno> perhaps we should get some bug guidance info on that page too
<heno> Please look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/PathsToFile
<heno> I'm hoping to identify how people arrive at filing a bug and what docs they see along the way
<heno> We can get some access logs from IS
<stgraber> hello
<heno> Anyone want to have a poke at those to see how people navigate to the bug page?
<ogasawara> I'm just curious what we plan to do with this information once we get it?
<heno> ogasawara: make sure that people are exposed to information on how to file a good bug along the most common routes to filing one
<heno> The survey might actually provide better info though
<heno> we are looking for a rough overview rather than detailed stats
<heno> And we don't expect to do a running analysis
<bdmurray> it seems like the ubuntuforums admins might be worth talking to
<heno> good point. I think there is a Fourum Council meeting soon
<heno> I'll bring it there
<bdmurray> google says nothing links to +filebug
<heno> interesting
<heno> from seeing the logs of that page, nearly all refs were from the LP ubuntu page
<bdmurray> I could be doing something wrong though
<heno> but we should track back from that
<ogasawara> http://www.ubuntu.com has a "Report a Problem" link
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://www.ubuntu.com has a "Report a Problem" link
<heno> bdmurray: could you try the same with the LP ubuntu page?
<stgraber> bdmurray: Is the file a bug button visible when not logged in ? that would explain why it isn't on google
<bdmurray> stgraber: yeah, I just got to thinking that
<stgraber> that or the +filebug page returns a no-index value so it isn't indexed by search engines
<bdmurray> but shouldn't links to it show up? or does google just ignore "broken" links
<liw> why would anyone link to a page people can't access unless they create an account and log in? if they log in, they can just click on the "report bug" link from lots of places, can't they?
<heno> http://www.ubuntu.com/community/reportproblem needs some improving; I'll email Matt Nuzum about it
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://www.ubuntu.com/community/reportproblem needs some improving; I'll email Matt Nuzum about it
<heno> Can anyone think of questions that should be added to the survey?
<heno> (I will run the by mpt as well)
<heno> I've shown this to the LP bugs team as well
<bdmurray> How will people answer question 4?
<bdmurray> It's possible the bug still is filed about the appropriate package.
<bdmurray> gah - isn't
<heno> true - it should rather be whether they found it easy to identify and mark the right package
<heno> some packages are just tricky - openoffice, kernel, xorg
<bdmurray> mark *a* package - right is rather subjective
<bdmurray> 3.5 should be do you know what a package is?
<liw> "right" also requires them to be confident they chose the right package -- I often guess, sometimes wrongly
<heno> these will be full text questions/answers so we would get that info
<heno> I'd like to see the posibility to select a category before selecting the package so it can at least go to the right team
<heno> openoffice, printing, display, system
<bdmurray> I think some of that exists to a degree already
<heno> as possible categories
<bdmurray> display - xorg
<bdmurray> printing - cupsys
<heno> bdmurray: on the package search?
<bdmurray> No at FindRightPackage
<heno> I've got to run to a phone meeting in a minute
<heno> bdmurray: ok, I was thinking to create LP functionality like guidel filing in the gnome bugzilla
<heno> final topic: would someone like to summarize today's meeting?
<bdmurray> okay, I don't think having a whole separate pseudo package is best
<liw> heno, I can do that
<heno> liw: great thanks!
<pedro_> http://bugzilla.gnome.org/simple-bug-guide.cgi <- guide bug filing
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://bugzilla.gnome.org/simple-bug-guide.cgi <- guide bug filing
<heno> sorry, I've got to run
<heno> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 16:54.
<heno> thanks all!
<pedro_> thanks !
<dvl> damn... I often type unbuntu by accident....
<dvl> server meeting in about 35 minutes?
<zul> @schedule
<ubotu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: 13 Feb 20:00: Security Team | 13 Feb 21:00: Server Team | 13 Feb 22:30: Forum Council | 14 Feb 14:00: Desktop Team | 15 Feb 04:00: MOTU | 20 Feb 01:00: TriLoCo-Midwest
<zul> hey dvl
<zul> @schedule montreal
<ubotu> Schedule for America/Montreal: 13 Feb 15:00: Security Team | 13 Feb 16:00: Server Team | 13 Feb 17:30: Forum Council | 14 Feb 09:00: Desktop Team | 14 Feb 23:00: MOTU | 19 Feb 20:00: TriLoCo-Midwest
<zul> 1hr 35 minutes
<dvl> zul: my server time must be off
<zul> ah
<dvl> No, it's not, I was off.  My cellphone says 4pm EST, my head said 20:00
<dvl> so I do have time to eat
<zul> plenty of time
* ubotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Security Team Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 13 Feb 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 13 Feb 22:30 UTC: Forum Council | 14 Feb 14:00 UTC: Desktop Team | 15 Feb 04:00 UTC: MOTU | 20 Feb 01:00 UTC: TriLoCo-Midwest
<lobo> hi
<keescook> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 20:00. The chair is keescook.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<keescook> hi everyone!
<gouki> 'night keescook!
<jdstrand> hi keescook!
<propagandist> ;o} hey!
<keescook> I figure I'll wait a few moment to let anyone else show up, and then we can get started.
<gouki> Sure.
<keescook> [TOPIC] review agenda
<MootBot> New Topic:  review agenda
<keescook> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<keescook> okay, so, anyone new to the meeting this week?
<mra> I have never been to one of these before
<keescook> cool, well, this is just the 2nd of it's kind, so we're new to it too.  :)
<lobo> me too
<nijaba> me neither :)
<keescook> mra, nijaba: do you want to give a quick introduction about yourselves?
<nxvl_work> o/
<keescook> introductions from last week are near the top of the IRC log:
<keescook> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/Security/20080130
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/Security/20080130
<keescook> lobo, nxvl_work: you too, if you feel up to it.
<nijaba> ok, I am the Ubuntu Server PM -> Nick Barcet IRL
<mra> I'm interested in security work in Ubuntu, and also ia64 related issues
<keescook> PM == Project Manager, yes?
<keescook> mra: do you mean ia64 or amd64?
<nijaba> nope, product manager, but you do know that, keith ;)
<keescook> keith!
<nijaba> that was for project :)
<keescook> right, I used the wrong word there.
<nxvl_work> i'm a contributor to ubuntu, not yet even ubuntu member, i'm a student of system engineering on Lima - PerÃº
<jdstrand> heh
<mra> I'm interested in all kinds, but not alot of people watch ia64 so I try to pay closer attention there
<keescook> mra: what kinds of security work interests you?
<nxvl_work> i'm working for 3 years as network and security consultant, most of the time making sysadmining
<mra> I am part of the HP team that brought SuSE and RH through their CAPP/LSPP evaluations
<keescook> mra: cool.  did you find that to be tricky?
<mra> so I'm interested in all kinds of security, but I'm more interested in what Ubutu wants to do with security
<mra> yes.
<mra> but worthwhile
<keescook> nxvl_work: cool
<keescook> okay, welcome everyone.  :)
<keescook> any other agenda items anyone wants to add at the last minute, go ahead and update the wiki, I'll reload it when we get near the end.  :)
<lobo> im 26 years old, live in the southern part of germany. work for about 4 years as network administrator for a mid size company. i'm interested in network security monitoring, computer networks in general and i'm also very interested in linux security. i run a couple of grsecurity hardened servers.
<keescook> lobo: excellent.  I'd be curious to hear which grsec options you have enabled.  I'd like to get some of those features broken out and put into the mainline kernel.
<keescook> okay, forging ahead -- we only have an hour :)
<keescook> [topic] CVE status
<MootBot> New Topic:  CVE status
 * siretart waves into the round :)
<keescook> I was on holiday last week, so I think I'll lean on jdstrand and anyone from motu-swat for this one.  :)
<keescook> heya siretart
<lobo> keescook: ok, maybe we can have a talk in ubuntu-hardened later about grsec ;-)
<keescook> lobo: sounds good
<gouki> keescook: I'm actually thinking about updating the Wiki with grsecurity. I was wondering if it's a possibility to Ubuntu and it's downsides (incompatibility with other software, wine for example)
<jdstrand> umm-- not sure what to say here that wasn't in USNs...
<keescook> gouki: yes please!  I'd love to see some feature details.  Perhaps use SecurityTeam/Roadmap/GRSecurity and outline the details (and link to it from the Roadmap page?)
<gouki> keescook: Sure thing
<jdstrand> (I'd be happy to talk a length-- just want to stay on topic)
<jdstrand> at length
<keescook> jdstrand: agreed.  maybe this agenda item is redundant.
<mra> what is USN?
<jdstrand> I will say that people were wondring about clamav
<keescook> mra: Ubuntu Security Notice:
<keescook> [link] http://ubuntu.com/usn/
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://ubuntu.com/usn/
<jdstrand> it was pushed out today for gutsy and feisty, but there is a buildd issue that isn't resolved yet causing a problem with dapper
<jdstrand> (something about translations-- should be fixed soon)
<jdstrand> I'll also mention for anyone who doesn't know that the local root exploit from slashdaot et al was patched yesterday
<keescook> cool.  I think I put this on the agenda just to have a place to talk about CVEs in general.  Perhaps for next meeting, people can call out specific CVE issues they want to talk about.  And if the list is empty, we can skip it.  :)
 * keescook hugs jdstrand for those fixes :)
<\emgent> sorry ofr away
 * jdstrand high fives keescook will he hugs him
<\emgent> my adsl sux.
<keescook> \emgent: heh, no problem.  logs should be available from Mootbot
<jdstrand> (however that is actually done, is up to your imagination)
<\emgent> cool
<keescook> okay, moving on
<keescook> [topic] AppArmor progress
<MootBot> New Topic:  AppArmor progress
 * jdstrand wonders why he can't type
<keescook> I haven't heard anything new from upstream, but will ping them today
<nxvl_work> jdstrand: irssi via ssh?
<keescook> [action] keescook to ping AA upstream for anything to sneak in before FF
<MootBot> ACTION received:  keescook to ping AA upstream for anything to sneak in before FF
<jdstrand> nxvl_work: ?
<keescook> mathiaz, jdstrand: you were both working on more profiles
<jdstrand> keescook: yes
<nxvl_work> jdstrand: are you having troubles to type using irssi via ssh connection?
<jdstrand> I am getting the packaging together for slapd, named and mysqld
<jdstrand> nxvl_work: oh, heh, no-- just not too good today
<nxvl_work> jdstrand: oh ok
<mathiaz> keescook: kind of. dendrobates added an abstraction for likewise.
<jdstrand> the profiles are tested with our qa-regression-tests, and seem in good shape
<mathiaz> keescook: It's a good way to figure out the workflow needed to get new profiles added.
<jdstrand> will be taking usr.sbin.named and usr.sbin.mysqld out of apparmor-profiles and adding them to their respective packages
<mathiaz> jdstrand: could you document how this should be done ?
<mathiaz> jdstrand: especially from a packaging POV (like Replaces etc...)
<jdstrand> mathiaz: I sure will when it's all tested ;)
<propagandist> jdstrand: would these regression tests be useful for selinux testing?
<keescook> [link] https://launchpad.net/qa-regression-testing
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://launchpad.net/qa-regression-testing
<jdstrand> propagandist: sure-- they exercise various parts of the application-- especially the default installation
<keescook> jdstrand: the goal is to run them enabled?  That might be the distinction: if it's in "complain" they stay in apparmor-profiles, and in "enforce" they go into the target package?
<jdstrand> they aren't apparmor specific by any means
<mathiaz> keescook: yes. That is the plan.
<jdstrand> keescook: oh yes-- full-on enabled
<keescook> mathiaz: heh. yay :)
<jdstrand> complete with note in README.Debian to go to DebuggingApparmor ;)
<keescook> hehe
<jdstrand> (which I wrote last week)
<jdstrand> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingApparmor
<keescook> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingApparmor
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingApparmor
<jdstrand> propagandist: https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-bugcontrol/qa-regression-testing/master
<propagandist> jdstrand: nice ;o) I will take a look at those and see how SELinux fares
<keescook> propagandist: more tests are always welcome.  ;)
<keescook> okay, good time to transition to...
<jdstrand> absolutely!
<keescook> [topic] SELinux progress
<MootBot> New Topic:  SELinux progress
<propagandist> Packages all pbuild succesfully and are available from the Hardened PPA:
<propagandist> [LINK] https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-hardened/+archive/
<propagandist> They are also on revu.
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-hardened/+archive/
<propagandist> Sources are available from:
<propagandist> [LINK] https://code.launchpad.net/~calebcase/+junk/selinux-support
<propagandist> Hardy server and desktop boot successfully SELinux enabled and enforcing.
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://code.launchpad.net/~calebcase/+junk/selinux-support
<keescook> I'm a slacker and haven't managed to get through all the package reviews, but I have been working through the TODO list propagandist sent via emai.
<propagandist> External Package Status:
<propagandist> grub            [bug 189173, submitted]
<propagandist> openssh         [bug 188136, submitted]
<propagandist> pam             [bug 187822, merged]
<propagandist> shadow          [bug 191326, submitted]
<propagandist> ustr            [new package, ?]
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 189173 in grub "trigger for update-grub" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/189173
<propagandist> ubuntu-standard [change apparmor-utils recommend to meta, keescook?]
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 188136 in openssh "package openssh-4.7p1 configure.ac improperly fails to recognize getseuserbyname and get_default_context_with_level" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/188136
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 187822 in pam "package pam-0.99.7.1 pam_selinux.so doesn't support seusers" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/187822
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 191326 in shadow "package shadow-4.0.18.2-1 enable pam_selinux in login.pam" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/191326
<propagandist> keescook:  ;o} vacations are so rough!
<\emgent> :)
<keescook> pam is done, openssh just hit the archive (building now)
<propagandist> As keescook says, the packages are in need of revieweing and merging.  I am available to fix any problems with the packages (Freeze is tomorrow right!?) Please let me know what needs to be done!
<propagandist> keescook: oh nice!
<keescook> ustr is accepted in Debian.
<keescook> I'll file a sync for it in Ubuntu right now...
<crimsun> I've been helping joejaxx with reviewing the selinux source packages, but I'm traveling this week, so further progress will (unfortunately) be by proxy
<keescook> propagandist: what would help me is a checklist of the packages to review.  I can browse your PPA, but it'd be handy to have a wiki to take notes on.
<propagandist> keescook: kk, I will put them up
<keescook> okay, ustr import requested.
<\emgent> cool
<propagandist> ;o}
<keescook> it sounds like things are in good shape.  I'm going to poke at grub too.  I think shadow should be trivial as well.
<keescook> we'll make FF, and if not, it shouldn't be hard to get an exception since selinux doesn't work correctly currently, so new uploads can't really regress.  :)
<propagandist> ;o}
<propagandist> heh
<\emgent> :>
<ScottK> Breaking your package just before FF is the surest way to get to upload updates later.
<keescook> heh
<ajmitch> ScottK: shh, this is publically logged
<propagandist> Are we using /[TASK] to assign these or just remember? ;o}
 * jdstrand makes a note of that
<keescook> propagandist: I think our [action] list would get long.  I think just making the TODO list in the wiki should be fine.  I've been able to see which things need sponsoring so far, so we're good.
<propagandist> keescook: kk sounds good
<keescook> we're skipping joejaxx's selinux UI stuff for this meeting since he hadn't slept in 36 hours.  :)
<gouki> heheh
<gouki> true, true
<keescook> but, based on screenshots he posted a while back, it looks like it's very cool
<\emgent> :)
<keescook> [topic] hardening wrapper testing
<MootBot> New Topic:  hardening wrapper testing
<gouki> keescook: Are this screenshots publicly available?
<keescook> anyone get a chance to do more hardened builds with the wrapper?
<keescook> gouki: yeah, but I don't have the link handy
<gouki> keescook: No problem. We'll talk about it on -hardened.
<mra> keescook, are there links to those screenshots?
<keescook> crimsun: did you get the pbuilder bits documented?
<crimsun> keescook: yes.  I have a document that's sitting in $employer's prepublication review queue (due to my doing it on work time);  I'll get those bits posted onto the Ubuntu wiki upon their approval.
<keescook> mra: see above (no)
<gouki> mra: Yes, but he doesn't have them handy. We'll talk about it on #ubuntu-hardened.
<keescook> crimsun: cool.  were you able to do any builds?
<crimsun> keescook: as a test, I built the entire audio stack from alsa-driver->alsa-lib->pulseaudio->gstreamer->bmpx
<crimsun> keescook: things were considerably easier than using hooks.  pbuilder provides bootstrap-time options for it.
<keescook> nice! how did it do?
<keescook> ah, good
<crimsun> went fine.
<keescook> \o/
<\emgent> :)
<keescook> can anyone else make some time to do rebuild tests?  packages you're interested in, etc?
<keescook> general use of the wrapper is documented here:
<keescook> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Security/HardeningWrapper
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Security/HardeningWrapper
<jdstrand> it would be good to run the qa-regression-tests scripts on packages compiled with HardeningWrapper
<keescook> yeah, good idea
<crimsun> indeed, that's queued on my list
<keescook> we do need behavioral tests instead of just compile tests.  :)
<keescook> I'd also like to see some benchmarks.  Some suggestions were made on the Debian mailing lists.
<keescook> [action] keescook to find debian benchmark mailing list post link
<MootBot> ACTION received:  keescook to find debian benchmark mailing list post link
<keescook> [topic] ubuntu-pentest
<MootBot> New Topic:  ubuntu-pentest
 * keescook turns it over to emgent
<\emgent> heya :)
<\emgent> well, ubuntu pentest team wiki page is up
<\emgent> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuPentest
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuPentest
<\emgent> now we can define "working tools docs" and PT draft report
<keescook> I'm waiting to get the mailing list up (I sent an RT for it)
<\emgent> ok cool
<\emgent> I think that it's important write a draft report for monitoring all works
<nxvl_work> also we need to check the appliance of memberships to the team
<\emgent> nxvl_work, later see agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<\emgent> [action] emgent to write report draft
<nxvl_work> \emgent: i mean to avoid this -> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-hardened/2008-February/000294.html
<\emgent> someone interested to write some docs about working tools for new members?
<gouki> nxvl_work: There is a topic for that on the Wiki
<nxvl_work> \emgent: first we need to decide which tools are we going to use
<keescook> some "process guildlines" would be good too (i.e. keep vulns private until fixed, etc)
<nxvl_work> gouki: yep, but read the link i have just posted
<\emgent> nxvl_work, we can talk about it in ml, if it's ok for all.
<keescook> and people can be team members if they agree to abide by those guidelines, CoC, etc.
<gouki> nxvl_work: I'm aware of that. I followed the discussion. But we will get to it.
<\emgent> well about working method
<keescook> [action] emgent to write report draft
<MootBot> ACTION received:  emgent to write report draft
<nxvl_work> also we need to have standards and policies about the tools used (i.e: not to use dangerous tests, which tools to use, etc..)
<jdstrand> keescook: can we get them to sign something separate for the CoC, or is that enough?
<\emgent> i think that it's good decide one 1-2 day for month for pentest-sessions
<nxvl_work> not to touch anything if you gain access
<nxvl_work> not to break anything
<keescook> that can include upstream contacts, where/when to test live services (i.e. staging.launchpad.net)
<\emgent> we can talk with infra people and working to services.
<keescook> jdstrand: I'm not sure there is a general way to do "sign this thing", so we just have to take people at their word.
<astharot> 1/2 days couldn't be enough
<\emgent> it's important see "draft report" and wrte a new with all tests
<mra> keescook, you could ask them to gpg sign something
<mra> its a way to register that you agreed to it
<jdstrand> keescook: maybe if they gpg signed the contents of an email message and sent it to the mlist?
<nxvl_work> keescook: we can make a Contract of Confidentiality and everyone on the team must sign it
<\emgent> astharot, what do you propose ?
<jdstrand> those contents would be the 'policy'
<nijaba> mra: right, and post it on their own wiki page
<keescook> mra: true, we could look in to it -- but I think an email confirming should be good enough.  yeah, sure, sign the email.  cool.
<crimsun> astharot: for specific components of the infra, I don't see why it wouldn't.
<astharot> it depends on how platforms do you want to test per month
<jdstrand> keescook: I think it's important from a mindset point of view, as well as potentially legal
<\emgent> keescook, can you talk with infra people for number pt sessions ?
<gouki> Other than that, we could also have in account contributions done by that person.
<jdstrand> (people will take it more seriously if they sign it)
<astharot> first there should be a census of the platforms to be checked
<astharot> then start thinking to a "schedule"
<keescook> \emgent: I'm unclear what you mean?  I think we'll need to coordinate infra-poking on a case-by-case basis with the infrastructure folks
<\emgent> astharot, +1
<\emgent> keescook, ok
 * jdstrand feels they *must* sign the email
<keescook> \emgent: i.e. we can make a list of things we want to test, and then bring it to them, and schedule times to do it.
<\emgent> ok cool.
<keescook> jdstrand: I agree -- it's not a very high barrier.  :)
<astharot> moreover, you should decide how many times per year/month/week you want to test each platform
<astharot> or on "new releases" basis
<\emgent> astharot, yep later, now we should write report draft
<dvl> nothing like having the laptop die 15 minutes before the meeting...
<keescook> nxvl_work: would you be willing to go through this IRC log and pull out all the method/guideline ideas we had?
<nxvl_work> mm
<keescook> if they got recorded in the wiki, it'd be a great starting point for more details
<\emgent> about Ubuntu Pentest day i think that first is good complete other docs (draft report, working tools docs etc..)
<nxvl_work> i'm kind of out of time this week, but if you can wait until weekend there is no problem
<\emgent> i think that we can decide date in ml or next meeting
<\emgent> and write a calendar
<astharot> first the census, then the schedule
 * jdstrand wants to go on record that we need to have our CoC in place, signed, and our policies defined before any pentesting
<\emgent> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuPentest/PentestDayCalendar
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuPentest/PentestDayCalendar
<keescook> nxvl_work: yeah, weekend should be fine.
<\emgent> me too, weekend +1
<keescook> [action] nxvl_work to prepare rough draft of pentest guidelines in Wiki, including ideas from ths IRC logs
<MootBot> ACTION received:  nxvl_work to prepare rough draft of pentest guidelines in Wiki, including ideas from ths IRC logs
<\emgent> well, according to astharot  is good first the census and later the schedule
<keescook> jdstrand: I think that's fine.
<\emgent> keescook, when pt private meilinglist is ready we can use it for coordination
<\emgent> s/meilinglist/mailinglist/
<\emgent> it's ok for all ?
<keescook> yup, sounds good.
<gouki> Sure
<\emgent> ok, now candidature
<nxvl_work> we can use bug reports on LP team as mailing list
<nxvl_work> we use to use it on DCT :P
<keescook> (10 minutes left, let's trying to be quick...)
<keescook> s/ing//
<\emgent> andrea-bs, nxvl_work  online ?
<gouki> \emgent: please, proceed. It's important to define that.
<nxvl_work> o/
<andrea-bs> \emgent: I'm here :)
<gouki> Maybe it would be good for Zelut to be around
<\emgent> about bugreports we can use launchpad np
<gouki> He the listadmin and owner of the hardened team.
<keescook> I'll send a meeting-minutes note to the hardened ml
<\emgent> gouki, i know.
<gouki> I'll talk to him.
<\emgent> ok
<\emgent> we can procede to membership approvation ?
<keescook> please do :)
<gouki> I believe so
<\emgent> cool
<\emgent> andrea-bs
<keescook> I think if applicants understand they need to be careful and use responsible disclosure (private bugs, etc) that should be good.  :)
<andrea-bs> I'm a developer who use Python as main programming language, but I know C/C++
<andrea-bs> and ASM on x86 (AT&T syntax) too. I'm interested in bugs and of course in
<andrea-bs> security issues in Linux and expecially in Ubuntu. I work with Ubuntu
<andrea-bs> BugControl and I'd like to join PenTest to help out better.
<\emgent> i saw him wiki page and launchpad page
<\emgent> for me +1
<keescook> +1 too :)
 * jdstrand knows he is harping on the same thing, but if we have all our policies, etc figured out, this will fall into place
<gouki> I also read it, and if I have anything to say, +1
<\emgent> jdstrand, please vote :)
<\emgent> astharot, please vote too.
<astharot> +1 ? :)
<\emgent> heheh :P
<\emgent> jdstrand, ?
<jdstrand> +1 (but wants something signed by all of us)
<keescook> (oops, I need to do the mootbot voting)
<jdstrand> (am I obsessing?)
 * jdstrand think you are jdstrand
<\emgent> hehe
<keescook> [agreed] we'll retroactively make sure all pentest members sign the pentest CoC
<MootBot> AGREED received:  we'll retroactively make sure all pentest members sign the pentest CoC
<keescook> welcome andrea-bs :)
<\emgent> crimsun, plese vote
<andrea-bs> thanks everybody! :)
<keescook> heh, getting ahead of myself, but 4 minutes left!
<\emgent> ok :D
<keescook> quick quick, on to nxvl_work :)
<crimsun> +1 here
<\emgent> ok
<nxvl_work> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Nxvl
<\emgent> welcome andrea-bs
<nxvl_work> https://edge.launchpad.net/~nvalcarcel
<\emgent> nxvl_work, go
<jdstrand> (we might also define who gets a vote, etc)
<nxvl_work> as i said before
<andrea-bs> \emgent: thank you
<nxvl_work> i'm a 23 years old student
<\emgent> jdstrand, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuPentest/Members
<keescook> [action] \emgent to define who votes for pentest membership
<MootBot> ACTION received:  \emgent to define who votes for pentest membership
<\emgent> keescook, all members.
<nxvl_work> and i have 3 year experience working as network and security consultant
 * jdstrand thinks this is sounding like a Council
<nxvl_work> most of my work has been sysadmining and pentesting
<gouki> As webmaster of PUU, I believe nxvl_work would be good. He has made several good and informative posts fetched by PUU.
<keescook> based on discussions, i'm +1
<\emgent> +1
<crimsun> also +1
<nxvl_work> my area of specialization is security, cause i love it
<nxvl_work> :D
<keescook> hehe
<\emgent> astharot, jenda
<jdstrand> +1
<\emgent> astharot, ?
<astharot> +1
<\emgent> ok welcome nxvl_work
 * astharot is automatic +1 :)
<keescook> welcome nxvl_work :)
<keescook> 2 min!
<nxvl_work> thanks to all
<gouki> 2 minutes left! :S
<\emgent> keescook, switch topic
<keescook> [topic] Contributing to ubuntu-cve-tracker - what's the best way?
<MootBot> New Topic:  Contributing to ubuntu-cve-tracker - what's the best way?
<keescook> everyone please review the README in the ubuntu-cve-tracker and prepare questions about it for next meeting!
<keescook> [topic] todo list
<MootBot> New Topic:  todo list
<nxvl_work> gouki: what's puu?
<keescook> everyone please fill in our roadmap wiki page.  :)
<keescook> [topic] next meeting
<MootBot> New Topic:  next meeting
<gouki> nxvl_work: ubuntuweblogs.org
<nxvl_work> ah yes
<nxvl_work> :D
<keescook> I'll defer motu-swat membership
<jdstrand> I put that there for thinking about bzr branches, etc.  so we should be thinking of that too
<keescook> next meeting, in two week, same time/place?
<crimsun> sounds fine
<nxvl_work> +1
<\emgent> +1
<gouki> Sure
<andrea-bs> +1 from me (if I can vote :D)
<keescook> the ayes have it.  done!  :)
<jdstrand> wfm
<keescook> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 20:59.
<keescook> :)
<\emgent> lol
<\emgent> very fast :D
<keescook> a bit rushed.  :P
<keescook> but I think we have some good stuff to work one.
<keescook> on
<\emgent> thanks for all
* ubotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Server Team Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 13 Feb 22:30 UTC: Forum Council | 14 Feb 14:00 UTC: Desktop Team | 15 Feb 04:00 UTC: MOTU | 20 Feb 01:00 UTC: TriLoCo-Midwest
<keescook> mathiaz: all yours.
<keescook> thanks everyone for coming!
 * jdstrand thinks that meeting flew by...
<propagandist> thanks ;o}
<jdstrand> thanks keescook!
<nijaba> thank keescook
<nxvl_work> thanks all
<ScottK> jdstrand: I did the feisty-backports update for clamav, so all the pockets are now covered.
<nxvl_work> see you on 2 weeks
<jdstrand> ScottK: I'll add that to my ever growing todo list
<jdstrand> :)
<mathiaz> thanks keescook !
<mathiaz> Let's move on to the Ubuntu Server Team meeting
<ScottK> jdstrand: No. It' published.  No more work required.
<zul> hello
<jdstrand> oh-- -backports.  duh
<sommer> hey all
<dvl> hi
 * nealmcb waves
<dendrobates> \o/
 * jdstrand thanks ScottK for not adding something to his todo list at this moment
<mathiaz> keescook: did you stop your meeting with mootbot ?
<dvl> hey, that's my emoticon!
<jdstrand> o/
<nijaba> \o
<keescook> mathiaz: yup
<dvl> that's better
<mathiaz> keescook: ok - I hadn't seen it.
<mathiaz> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 21:03. The chair is mathiaz.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<mathiaz> Welcome to the Server Team meeting !
<mathiaz> Let's try to make it shorter than last week.
<mathiaz> The Agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Review ACTION points from previous meeting.
<MootBot> New Topic:  Review ACTION points from previous meeting.
<mathiaz> Previous meeting log and minutes: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/Server/20080206
<mathiaz> ivoks: started to work on the bacula merge.
<ivoks> right
<ivoks> i proposed a python script, but this is going to be replaces by awk script
<dvl> [if I fail to respond to a question, my link died, flaky laptop today]
<ivoks> replaced
<mathiaz> right - I suggested to try to get upstream to accept our changes
<ivoks> dvl: is bacula dev, so we are trying to coordinate work
<dvl> It came upstream.  It was good.
<dvl> I liked it, others liked it.
<mathiaz> dvl: would accept the python script ?
<soren> o/
<mathiaz> dvl: talking with ivoks, it seems that you'd better stick with a shell script.
<ivoks> dvl: if we finish awk script, which should work as the python script, would that be ok for upstream?
<dvl> mathiaz: yes.  But if awk is preferred, we'll go with that too.  We think awk is better supported on our platforms.
<dvl> ivoks: the awk script will be fine.
<ivoks> great; only thing to do - teach ivoks awk :D
<dvl> mathiaz: shell script would be good too, if we can parse it.
<mathiaz> dvl: well - I'm just hoping that if we fix something in ubuntu upstream devs are ready to accept the change.
<dvl> ivoks: well, Python is pretty popular, but awk is pretty much everywhere.  You folks are writing the script, if you have a preferred language, propose it
<dvl> mathiaz: We are happy that Ubuntu is doing this work. It's great.  We'll take it.
<ivoks> dvl: we'll do it in awk ;)
<dvl> mathiaz: I've already tested the python script with a PostgreSQL database.  worked with minimal changes (that were PG specific)
<dvl> ivoks: OK.
<mathiaz> ivoks: dvl: ok - let's go for a awk script
<dvl> mathiaz: in short, if it comes, we'll use it, if it's anything like the Python script.
<ivoks> i think we can move on, this one is decided
<mathiaz> is there anything else needed for bacula ?
<mathiaz> ivoks: ^^
<dvl> OK, anything else for me?  if not, I'll move on....
<ivoks> dvl: thank you for your time
<dvl> Thanks folks.  The Bacula project wanted me to say thanks too.  later.
<zul> just a MIR for bacula
<ivoks> mathiaz: some packaging stuff
<mathiaz> thanks dvl
<dvl> laters.
<mathiaz> ivoks: how confident are you to get it uploaded before FF (ie tomorrow) ?
<ivoks> not very
<nijaba> ivoks: how complex it the python script?
<ivoks> nijaba: it's simple, but we've droped it
<nealmcb> and what does the python script do?
<mathiaz> nijaba: we've chosen to go for a awk script
<mathiaz> nealmcb: parses the bacula configuration files to extract database information
<nijaba> ivoks: yes, understood, but if not too complex I could translate python->awk for you
<mathiaz> nealmcb: such as db name, password and username
<ivoks> nijaba: that would be great
<nijaba> ivoks: where can I find it?
<ivoks> nijaba: ubuntu-server mailing list :)
<ivoks> there's already one part mathiaz did
<ivoks> nijaba: i'll send it to you on email
 * nijaba must be blind, can't find this mail in the ml
<ivoks> nijaba: i'll send you both then...
<mathiaz> [ACTION] nijaba to help ivoks with rewriting the bacula python script in awk
<MootBot> ACTION received:  nijaba to help ivoks with rewriting the bacula python script in awk
<mathiaz> I've scheduled a session to present the Server Team during the Ubuntu Developer Week.
<mathiaz> I will run the irc session next monday at 20:00 UTC
<mathiaz> That's all for the last meeting actions.
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Ubuntu community
<MootBot> New Topic:  Ubuntu community
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Ubuntu community - forums
<MootBot> New Topic:  Ubuntu community - forums
<mathiaz> faulkes-_: any updates on the forums ?
<faulkes-_> sorry, was in another window
<faulkes-_> 1. The "Servers & Security" forums how been split into two seperate forums
<faulkes-_> they are "Server Platforms" & "Security Discussions", they are now listed in the main support categories rather than the "Other Community Discussions" area
<faulkes-_> this was the first of our objectives, in order to equalize the importance and prominence of the server side of ubuntu
<faulkes-_> 2. A forum sticky detailing information on the Ubuntu Server Team
<faulkes-_> a message was sent to the ML, on wich we received feedback from a number of members, Loye agreed to review the proposed sticky for grammar, spelling, etc.
<faulkes-_> I am still waiting to hear back from Loye so it can be posted
<faulkes-_> 3. The forum council has offered the Ubuntu Server Team moderator priveleges for the Server Platform forum
<mathiaz> faulkes-_: great - who are the moderators ?
<faulkes-_> specifically, this was sent to me, such that I would be listed as a moderator
 * nealmcb is surprised to see the second google hit for "forum ubuntu server team": a microsoft forum page saying "Join the ubuntu home server team - Windows Home Server".  above the ubuntu forums themselves.  need to figure that out 
<antdedyet> faulkes-_: it looks like the now named "Server" forums holds all the past data and "Security" was created anew?
<mathiaz> faulkes-_: I though about having a way to get feedback from the forums
<mathiaz> antdedyet: correct
<faulkes-_> my initial reaction was that this would need to be discussed with the group and have agreement that I would take this on
<mathiaz> faulkes-_: Most of the people in the team don't go to the forums.
<faulkes-_> and secondly, that a secondary person be nominated (volunteer) to be a backup
<antdedyet> mathiaz: alright.
<faulkes-_> mathiaz: correct, although I did see recent postings from Loye in there
<mathiaz> faulkes-_: but having someone compile a list of problems coming up over and over would help.
<faulkes-_> so, I am willing to take this on
<faulkes-_> with the groups approval
<faulkes-_> group's even
<mathiaz> faulkes-_: I think it'd be good idea considering that you've already been active in the forums.
<faulkes-_> mathiaz: yes, I have a number of thoughts that are along that line
<mathiaz> faulkes-_: excellent. Could you send a proposal to ubuntu-server ml with ways to report back to the server team ?
<faulkes-_> I was only concerned with getting approval and asking if a secondary volunteer would be interested, for redundancy
<faulkes-_> mathiaz: yes, I can do that
<mathiaz> faulkes-_: great.
<mathiaz> [ACTION] faulkes-_ to send an proposal about bringing feedback from the forums to the developer team to ubuntu-server ml.
<MootBot> ACTION received:  faulkes-_ to send an proposal about bringing feedback from the forums to the developer team to ubuntu-server ml.
<faulkes-_> ok, duly noted that I will take on responsibility for that and as well provide a proposal to the ML on ways to report bak
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Ubuntu Community - ml and irc
<MootBot> New Topic:  Ubuntu Community - ml and irc
<mathiaz> dendrobates: ?
<dendrobates> mathiaz: it would be nice if we had a group of volunteers that could help users that show up in the irc channel
<dendrobates> or the ml.
<dendrobates> or if they are lost point them the correct way.
<faulkes-> dendro: I have been trying to help as much as possible on irc as well
 * ScottK thought we pretty much did already.
<nxvl_work> dendrobates: that wouldn't be part of the "tasks" of the sponsor team?
<dendrobates> ScottK: we do most of the time.
<nxvl_work> i also think ScottK is already doing that job
<nxvl_work> he has help me a lot
<dendrobates> nxvl_work: that is basically what I am saying is to make sure we include this in the sponsorship program.
<nxvl_work> oh ok
<dendrobates> ScottK is also not awake 24 hr/day
<mathiaz> dendrobates: would you define shifts ?
<mathiaz> dendrobates: or having people on duty ?
<nxvl_work> so, the sponsors are not only asked to help their mentees but also the new people
<dendrobates> I just wanted to open it up for discussion.
<antdedyet> I try to help out in #ubuntu-server occasionally too, although I have been somewhat lurking to make sure my answers are on par with what the server team would thinks.
<mathiaz> dendrobates: I think we're already good at doing it.
<nxvl_work> what we can do
* ubotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Server Team Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 13 Feb 22:30 UTC: Forum Council | 14 Feb 14:00 UTC: Desktop Team | 15 Feb 04:00 UTC: MOTU | 20 Feb 01:00 UTC: TriLoCo-Midwest | 20 Feb 19:00 UTC: Platform Team
<nxvl_work> is to use more often the "offer mentoring" option on LP
<faulkes-> I think a better solution is already somewhat it the works, by knowing who works on what (i.e. ScottK on postfix), so that the people who are present can pass along to the appropriate people
<dendrobates> I notice in the late evenings EST, people pop in and never get questions answered, and leave.
<faulkes-> if they can't answer it directly
<nxvl_work> so new people can quick start working on some basic/easy task with someone helping them
<nealmcb> my focus on the factoids is a step in that direction
<mathiaz> dendrobates: right. But I'm not sure we enough members to covers the IRC channel 24h a day
<faulkes-> nealmcb: we should collude, based on what I'm doing in the forums, it is likely I coud help to build out additionals
<nealmcb> faulkes-: right on
<ScottK> dendrobates: I think with volunteers there is only so far you can go with trying to get coverage.
<dendrobates> mathiaz: maybe not yet
<faulkes-> ScottK: agreed
<faulkes-> but knowing who to point someone to is a big help if you can't answer someone directly
<dendrobates> The idea was for there to be more ways that non-programmers can contribute
 * faulkes- nods
<mathiaz> dendrobates: humm... I see your point.
<mathiaz> dendrobates: the GettingInvolved page on w.u.c already list helping out on IRC and ubuntu-server as the easiest way to get involved.
<nealmcb> dendrobates: right - and real-time help on irc is one good way to help
<nealmcb> sysadmin gurus on call :-)
<ScottK> A not unrelated point is that it'd be nice for it to be easier to leverage this work into additional consulting business.  It helps the volunteer motivation.
<mathiaz> dendrobates: may be we could give some more advice/help on how to do it.
<nealmcb> s/on call/online/ ...
<antdedyet> <-- is a freelancing sysadmin >:)
<mathiaz> ScottK: right - although I'm not sure if you can find business leads in #ubuntu-server
<faulkes-> I think looking for business leads in #ubuntu-server would be a bad idea
<faulkes-> we don't want people to think that we charge for support, or give that impression
<mathiaz> what about adding a role that covers helping out in #ubuntu-server and ml ?
<faulkes-> that's canonical's gambit
<nealmcb> faulkes-: and many others....
<faulkes-> I think defining "helping out on irc/ml" a little more in-depth would be of greater benefit
<ScottK> I don't have a hard time saying that someone has gotten beyond the level of help I'll give for free.
<faulkes-> ScottK: understood
<antdedyet> == ScottK # we have bills too.
<ScottK> Just saying ...
<faulkes-> ScottK: however defining that for each individual would be different
<faulkes-> and likely to cause issues or give the wrong impression
<mathiaz> ScottK: I think that's great. But I wouldn't mention the business side of things as a point to encourage people contributing on #ubuntu-server
<faulkes-> mathiaz: agreed
<nealmcb> perhaps a factiod on more in-depth help that would point to the web page that lists folks offering support for ubuntu?
<mathiaz> so - how could the section on GettingInvolved be improved ?
<mathiaz> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/GettingInvolved
<ScottK> mathiaz: Agreed.
<dendrobates> mathiaz: but pointing people to a wiki of consultants, when they need extra help might be fine.
<mathiaz> dendrobates: sure - I think we should point to the ubuntu marketplace.
<ScottK> dendrobates:  +1
<mathiaz> dendrobates: that's what it's been created for.
<faulkes-> mathiaz: I think to improve the GettingStarted, for irc and the ML we need to define some criteria based upon involvement with the Team
<nxvl_work> mathiaz: i think to write it more consistent when i read it a lost myself and don't know to get involved
<nealmcb> why does http://www.ubuntu.com/support only point to canonical for Professional support?
<nxvl_work> also showing examples of what we do (i.e: putting links to some interesting bugs like postfix dovecot integration)
<soren> "Professional support is also available from companies listed as Canonical Partners."
<faulkes-> mathiaz: the same suggestion you gave to me about the forums sticky, have the information for becoming a member at the top and bottom
<faulkes-> currently it's at the very bottom
<nxvl_work> so the ones who read the page can felt in love with the team and his tasks
<faulkes-> so it's misleading to people who think to be officially part of the team, they need only be on irc and the ML
<ScottK> soren: Is there a pointer on how a small business might become such a Canonical Partner?
<jdstrand> ScottK: there is
<mathiaz> faulkes-: agreed with a link to become member at the top.
<soren> ScottK: Yes.
<faulkes-> mathiaz: and I was also add the forums to the list of irc and ml for ways of being involved
<jdstrand> ScottK: I forget where off-hand
 * ScottK will investigate that then.
<soren> ScottK: Not right there, though. It's a bit out of scope for that page.
<jdstrand> but I read it once
<mathiaz> faulkes-: good idea
<mathiaz> [ACTION] mathiaz to update the GettingInvolved page with a link to the forums.
<MootBot> ACTION received:  mathiaz to update the GettingInvolved page with a link to the forums.
<nealmcb> I still think the ubuntu support page should point to a list of support options that are independent of canonical
<nealmcb> though of course I am very appreciative of the many wonderful canonical folks here and in general :-)
<antdedyet> ScottK: let me know what you find out -- I'm interested in that too
<mathiaz> So to move on, let's talk about the mentoring program.
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Community - mentoring
<MootBot> New Topic:  Community - mentoring
<antdedyet> ScottK: that == my business becoming a Ubuntu Partner
<soren> antdedyet: http://www.ubuntu.com/partners
<zul> nealmcb: i think that might be out of the scope of this meeting
 * nealmcb nods
<mathiaz> I sent out a proposal and got some feedback, publicly and privately.
<dendrobates> nealmcb: we should discuss this later though.
<nealmcb> dendrobates: thanks
<mathiaz> I plan to create wiki page that outlines the program, what it has to offer to mentee and what is expected from mentors.
<antdedyet> soren: Thanks. I will mention my experience later on #ubuntu-server.
<mathiaz> Hopefully I'll get something ready for Monday
<mathiaz> [ACTION] mathiaz to create a wiki page about the mentoring program for the server team.
<MootBot> ACTION received:  mathiaz to create a wiki page about the mentoring program for the server team.
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] ebox statux
<MootBot> New Topic:  ebox statux
<nxvl_work> mathiaz: you can base it on the MOTU one
<mathiaz> nxvl_work: yes.
<nxvl_work> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Mentoring
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Mentoring
<mathiaz> zul: how is ebox shapping up ?
<nxvl_work> it has good information and also a good format
<mathiaz> nxvl_work: will do. thanks.
<nxvl_work> np
<nxvl_work> :D
<zul> mathiaz: its got some issues still i ran it through pbuilder and some of the builds failed, i generated some patches for my work but I got distracted with FF stuff
<zul> mostly ServerPackageReview
<zul> mathiaz: mostly the issues right now are missing build-depends and policy issues
<foolano> zul: i'm one of the eBox developers, feel free to report stuff to me
<mathiaz> zul: considering that ebox is affected by FF, what are the chance it gets in ?
<zul> mathiaz: still alot of work to do
<zul> foolano: hi there
<dendrobates> we can ask for an exception.
 * nealmcb nods
<soren> ScottK: Any chance of granting an exception?
<soren> (ISTR you're on the motu-ff team)
<mathiaz> foolano: are you using ppa ?
<ScottK> soren: I am.  I think it's an excellent candidate, but you'll need to ask when it's ready.
<nealmcb> are we still expecting ebox to be in a tasksel?
<mathiaz> foolano: it may be a option to get things tested on ubuntu.
<nxvl_work> mathiaz: i think his upsream developer
<soren> Of course, but if you can "Hell no!" already, we could save ourselves the trouble.
<foolano> nxvl_work: we do packaging work too
<mathiaz> zul: can you keep foolano in the loop with packaging issues you've seen ?
<nealmcb> foolano: thanks for all your work and mesages to date!
<zul> mathiaz: yes I can send an email tonight
<foolano> i've been working on modify stuff to comply with the debian policy
<ScottK> For tasksel it would need to get into Main.
<zul> Ill stick my debdiffs up tonight
<foolano> we dont overwrite configuration files without ask permission
<mathiaz> foolano: excellent !
<foolano> and most of the modules are doing that in a very nice way
<foolano> the only thing is the packaging
<mathiaz> [ACTION] zul to mail foolano the packaging issues he has seen with ebox
<MootBot> ACTION received:  zul to mail foolano the packaging issues he has seen with ebox
<foolano> it needs some love
<foolano> :)
<nealmcb> http://trac.ebox-platform.com/roadmap
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://trac.ebox-platform.com/roadmap
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] MIR status 2 days away from FF
<MootBot> New Topic:  MIR status 2 days away from FF
<mathiaz> nijaba: what are you concerns about this ?
<nijaba> not much, just a general status of where we are
<nijaba> snort has been pushed back
<nijaba> drdb needs some work
<zul> drdb is almost done :)
<nijaba> most of the others have been accepted but nee some minor bugfix
<ScottK> amavisd-new is approved and hoping for some tasksel love from ivoks.
<antdedyet> s/drdb/drbd/g
<antdedyet> no?
<antdedyet> :)
<jdstrand> the nut audit is still on my todo list
<mathiaz> ok - seems that we've done well for the MIR process.
<mathiaz> nijaba: any outstanding ones ?
<nijaba> ok, so everything seems to look good on that front in general...
<nijaba> munin has not been reviewed yet
<mathiaz> nijaba: have all the mir been reviewed ?
<nijaba> mathiaz: ^^
<mathiaz> nijaba: only one left ?
<nijaba> yep, I beleive so
<mathiaz> nijaba: excellent ! :)
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Review each section of the ServerTeam/Roadmap.
<MootBot> New Topic:  Review each section of the ServerTeam/Roadmap.
<nijaba> apart from the last one added by support yesterday
<mathiaz> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Roadmap
<ScottK> I've updated the server roadmap with the list of packages needing update to get rid of libdb4.3 (and updated where we are on 4.2).
<ScottK> If people want to get some easy packaging experience, that's a place to look.
<mathiaz> ScottK: have you filed bug for this ?
<mathiaz> ScottK: you can use the sponsor feature then.
<ScottK> No.  Just put it on the wiki page.
<mathiaz> ScottK: ok.
<ScottK> I may do that though.  It's a good idea.
<ScottK> Someone else wants to do the launchpad foo, I'll be happy for it.
<mathiaz> ScottK: It could be a task to start with.
<mathiaz> I'd like to use the sponsor feature more often.
<mathiaz> There is also the bitsize tags - that should raise the visibility of tasks so that bug ends up in the MOTU list for example.
<mathiaz> dendrobates: how easy is it to join an AD domain now ?
<sommer> does the libdb task need to be done before FF?
<dendrobates> mathiaz: you already know :)
<dendrobates> It is very easy, if your dns is correct.
<mathiaz> dendrobates: yes :) - but I'm sure the whole world'd like to be updated ;)
<mathiaz> dendrobates: Has the package been published ?
<dendrobates> I uploaded likewise-open, but the AA's requested a change.
<dendrobates> Just finished fixing it.
<mathiaz> dendrobates: so it should hit the archive tomorrow ?
<dendrobates> It seems to work, but we could use more testing.
<dendrobates> I hope.
<nealmcb> is there a tool to file bugs in launchpad based on library dependencies?  seems like a common thing, and helpful for libdb....
<mathiaz> nealmcb: not that I know of.
<dendrobates> if you want to check it out it is in my ppa.
<mathiaz> dendrobates: I've seen some test reports already.
<mathiaz> dendrobates: but we need to wait for the package to be published to file bug reports.
<ScottK> sommer: No.
<dendrobates> https://launchpad.net/~dendrobates/+archive
<sommer> ScottK: cool
<mathiaz> soren: what's new on the virtualization front ?
<soren> Hm..
<soren> virtio in the installer is this close: |<--->|
<soren> The code is done, it just needs a fresh debian-installer upload to enable it. That's pretty cool.
<soren> open-vm-tools will be updated as soon as this meeting is over, so I can get to upload it.
<soren> dnsmasq-base and netcat-openbsd landed, so now we have dhcp/dns for virtual networks and remote management without any fuss.
<soren> That's the highlights, I believe.
<mathiaz> soren: great.
<mathiaz> jdstrand: ufw ?
<nijaba> soren: what about vm-builder?
<soren> Will upload tomorrow.
<jdstrand> ufw 0.12 has been accepted in to main
<nijaba> \o/
<jronnblom> soren: do you fix the problem with loading the vmxnet in open-vm-tools? Or perhaps we shoudl discuss this privately after the meeting?
<nijaba> \o/ x 2
<jdstrand> sommer has been updating documentation
<nealmcb> soren: and you're a cnet news authority :-)
<soren> jronnblom: Er... I'm unfamiliar with "the problem with loading vmxnet in open-vm-tools". AFter the meeting sounds good.
<nijaba> soren is a MOVW ;)
<zul> heh soren is a rockstar
<soren> MOVW?
<mathiaz> soren: you've also been doing some work on iscsi ?
<nijaba> master of virtual world
<soren> I have. It's been integrated into the installer (pass iscsi=true to the kernel, and you win).
<soren> nijaba: Ah. :)
<soren> It's sort of blocked on new installer as well (kernel support).
<mathiaz> zul: news on xen ?
<zul> mathiaz: we fixed a libxen issue and getting some bug reports about things
<mathiaz> dendrobates: did you get a chance to test libvirt with xen ?
<zul> and which I will fix of course
<dendrobates> nope.  there were version issues.
<dendrobates> I had eto move on.
<dendrobates> I can test it with the new libvirt that soren just uploaded.
<mathiaz> on the ldap front, jdstrand has been filing bug about openldap2.4
<dendrobates> after FF.
<mathiaz> and things are been fixed by slangasek.
<mathiaz> jdstrand: is there a lot of failure left in openldap 2.4 ?
<jdstrand> TLSCipherSuite needs to be migrated as gnutls does is differently than openssl
<jdstrand> if you leave that out, TLS/SSL works fine
<jdstrand> I found where SASL was failing, and slangasek said he fixed it
<mathiaz> what about migration ?
<jdstrand> the only thing left is proxy cache fails our qa-regression-tests
<jdstrand> mathiaz: with openssl, you can do TLSCipherSuite HIGH
<mathiaz> are there issues in upgrading from the openldap version in dapper ?
<jdstrand> gnutls doesn't understand 'HIGH', but it has its own adjectives
<jdstrand> mathiaz: if people use TLSCipherSuite, TLS/SSL will not work
<jdstrand> and openldap may not start, depending
<mathiaz> jdstrand: is slangasek dealing with this case in the postinst script ?
<jdstrand> oh, you also need the new ssl-cert which fixes the snakoil certificate for use with gnutls (IIUC)
<jdstrand> slangasek is handling that, and is aware of the issues.
<mathiaz> excellent.
<jdstrand> mathiaz: I am not sure of his plans
<mathiaz> so let's finish this review with documentation.
<mathiaz> sommer: how is the server guide going ?
<sommer> good good... should have extensions for the bacula, virt, open-likewise sections
<sommer> jdstrand mentioned the ufw section... which turned out to be an overhaul of the firewall section
<jdstrand> sommer has done a great job
<mathiaz> sommer: is there a place where the latest dev version of the guide available ?
 * jdstrand thanks sommer :)
<ivoks> soomer always does a great job
<sommer> jdstrand: thanks
<mathiaz> sommer: how do you think managing reviews ?
<ivoks> doh.. sommer too :)
<sommer> mathiaz: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-doc/ubuntu-doc/ubuntu-hardy
<mathiaz> sommer: right - that's the source.
<mathiaz> sommer: I was think about an online version.
<sommer> mathiaz: right... nope there isn't currently a HTML version
<mathiaz> sommer: so that we can ask people to go over the server guide and reviewing it.
<nealmcb> is there any sort of ubuntu server faq?
<mathiaz> sommer: it would lower the barrier for doc reviewing.
<sommer> there are some bugs about doc.u.c being out of date
<mathiaz> nealmcb: not that I know of.
<nijaba> sommer: what is http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/serverguide/C/ ?  it shows 8.04 at http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/serverguide/C/preparing-to-install.html
<mathiaz> nealmcb: what would you put in it ?
<nealmcb> mathiaz: the sorts of questions that come up on irc and the forums
<mathiaz> nealmcb: isn't that what the factoids are for ?
<nealmcb> it is such a common term (faq) that we might benefit from having a wiki page of that sort
<sommer> nijaba: probably a DocBook macro that inserted the latest release number into the HTML
<mathiaz> nealmcb: right. But a faq targeted at users, not developers.
<nealmcb> I don't think we have a list of server-related factoids anywhere, and having that as a google target might help
<nijaba> right...
<nealmcb> mathiaz: right
<mathiaz> nealmcb: that would be great.
<mathiaz> nealmcb: however we'd have a way to figure out what are the most common questions asked on irc, ml forums.
<nealmcb> faulkes-: collecting the forum input on the wiki and pointing folks at the wiki for faqs would be great
<sommer> I can ping Mathew East about the status of doc.u., I think he was given shell access
<mathiaz> let's see how we can deal with the content coming from the forums and integrate it into a faq.
<mathiaz> sommer: that would be great, especially during reviews.
<faulkes-> nealmcb: noted
<nealmcb> :-)
<mathiaz> sommer: could you send an email to ubuntu-doc about this ?
<sommer> mathiaz: sure
<mathiaz> [ACTION] sommer to send an email to ubuntu-doc about having an html version of the latest server guide online available during reviews.
<MootBot> ACTION received:  sommer to send an email to ubuntu-doc about having an html version of the latest server guide online available during reviews.
<mathiaz> I think that's all for the Roadmap.
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Any Other Business
<MootBot> New Topic:  Any Other Business
<mathiaz> anyone want to add something ?
<nealmcb> good meeting!  Seems like hardy is coming along pretty well - congrats, folks!
* ubotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Forum Council Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 14 Feb 14:00 UTC: Desktop Team | 15 Feb 04:00 UTC: MOTU | 20 Feb 01:00 UTC: TriLoCo-Midwest | 20 Feb 19:00 UTC: Platform Team | 20 Feb 20:00 UTC: Education Team
<ubuntugeek> Howdy all
<TechnoViking> howdy
<forumsmatthew> hello
<nijaba> thanks mathiaz
<ubuntugeek> Mike, Matthew.. howdy
<ubuntugeek> Glad you could make it matthew
<forumsmatthew> how is everyone?
<TechnoViking> does the server team need anymore time?
<forumsmatthew> thanks
<mathiaz> TechnoViking: not.
<mathiaz> just a minute
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Agree on next meeting date and time.
<MootBot> New Topic:  Agree on next meeting date and time.
<mathiaz> next week, same place, same time ?
 * nealmcb nods
<sommer> +1
<mathiaz> ok - great then
<mathiaz> thanks all.
<mathiaz> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 22:32.
<sommer> thanks mathiaz, later all
<faulkes-> good meeting, later all
<TechnoViking> ok everyone ready?
<forumsmatthew> all set here
<TechnoViking> ===== FC Meeting Start ====
<TechnoViking> hey jdong
<ubuntugeek> Well our agenda is pretty light.. The first Item has already been done.
<forumsmatthew> cool
<forumsmatthew> I haven't even had a chance to look
<forumsmatthew> what is item two?
<vorian> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ForumCouncilAgenda
<forumsmatthew> thank you, vorian
<vorian> np
<ubuntugeek> Item two is an idea I got from another forum to differentiate staff posts from normal users. It seems to work pretty.. It might not work for us but its worth discussing I think
<jdong> ubuntugeek: I think it is important to distinguish staff in a simple manner
 * PriceChild waves
<vorian> ubuntugeek: i like the sound of it
<forumsmatthew> I can see how it would be useful for moderation tasks, but I don't know that I would like it all the time
<jdong> but I think anything done to the post text can be faked by users, or appear too annoying
<forumsmatthew> can it be toggled on/off?
<jdong> forumsmatthew: like a "staff hat"? :)
<forumsmatthew> yeah, something like that
<ubuntugeek> Well I was thinking the text color would stay the same, but the background of the post would be different.
<TechnoViking> good point matthew
<PriceChild> I wouldn't like it unless it was "optin" on a post by post basis.
<forumsmatthew> we always wear our red name badges and have custom user titles/icons, so people pretty much know we are staff
<forumsmatthew> the different background sounds neat
<forumsmatthew> I'm not sure it would be universally useful, though
<forumsmatthew> do you have a link to a forum or two where you have seen it in use?
<ubuntugeek> Sounds good, was just a suggestion..
<forumsmatthew> ubuntugeek, you know I love new toys...
<forumsmatthew> especially shiny ones
<ubuntugeek> Well everyone generally doesnt like it, I can tell.. So no reason to put work into something people wont like :)
<vorian> I like the idea
<ubuntugeek> Or find usefull
<forumsmatthew> that's probably true, though
<forumsmatthew> sorry
<forumsmatthew> I do like the toys and shiny stuff, but this one doesn't seem real valuable to me
<forumsmatthew> for our purposes
<ubuntugeek> anything else?
<forumsmatthew> now, in another context...
<forumsmatthew> I don't have anything else
<forumsmatthew> and I'm tired and in ramble mode...
<ubuntugeek> :)
<TechnoViking> :)
<ubuntugeek> mike you plan on replying to my private msg?
<forumsmatthew> blah blah blah blah blah
<TechnoViking> when did you send it?
<ubuntugeek> like 10 mins ago
<ubuntugeek> doesn't matter..
<ubuntugeek> Anyways, I got nothing.  I got vb3.7 setup so we can start testing that. I'll post the link
<TechnoViking> I got got out of a meeting, and went directly into irc
<forumsmatthew> ubuntugeek, PM me the link and I'll start testing in the morning
<TechnoViking> UG: did not get the msg, sorry
<vorian> just as a matter of record, ajmorris is now the team leader of the Unanswered Posts team.
<ubuntugeek> Will do.. I'll post it in the staff area
<ubuntugeek> Also  faulkes is a moderator in the server platform forum.
<ubuntugeek> the FC was CC'd on the email
<vorian> is mssever still considered a team leader on the UA team?
<TechnoViking> FYI, I think Jono is working on a dov for membership approval for team councils
<TechnoViking> dov =doc
<ubuntugeek> Sounds good Mike
<vorian> should we set a meeting time/date for next month?
<ubuntugeek> I should just mention really quick.. So everyone is prepared, when we launch the upgrade to vb 3.7 categories will be consolidated and we will be moving to a thread prefix/tagging system.
<forumsmatthew> cool. Is this version better (less server intensive) than the earlier version of tagging we tried?
<forumsmatthew> If so, it should certainly help with searching issues
<ubuntugeek> March, 12th 22:30 ?
<forumsmatthew> looks good to me
<ubuntugeek> The functionality is built into vb3.7 so its not a hack
<TechnoViking> good with me
<forumsmatthew> excellent!
<ubuntugeek> Yep!
<vorian> cool, I'll get it set up then :)
<ubuntugeek> Awesome thanks vorian!
<forumsmatthew> thank you
<ubuntugeek> Anything else? Next month I would like to discuss the vb3.7 after everyone has had time to test it out
<vorian> it's been eerily quiet lately :)
<vorian> Hardy is gonna rock
<ubuntugeek> And discuss how we can remove some of the hacked in functions and replace them with core vb functions
<TechnoViking> nothing here
<vorian> so this next cycle will be fun
<forumsmatthew> I will start playing with 3.7 asap...probably tomorrow
<ubuntugeek> Agreed!
<forumsmatthew> I predict the forums will continue to grow at an increasing rate
<ubuntugeek> Well thats a given :P
<forumsmatthew> ;)
<TechnoViking> ok
<TechnoViking> ==== FC Meeting End ====
<ubuntugeek> Thanks all.. until next time.
<forumsmatthew> catch you later!
<TechnoViking> later all
<PriceChild> when's 3.7 being released?
<PriceChild> is there a date?
<ubuntugeek> Still in beta..  Beta 4
<forumsmatthew> I need sleep...see you all later
<ubuntugeek> We'll probably upgrade before its released as we have in the past. It depends on how it goes with testing.
<ubuntugeek> See ya all later.
#ubuntu-meeting 2008-02-14
* ubotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 14 Feb 14:00 UTC: Desktop Team | 15 Feb 04:00 UTC: MOTU | 20 Feb 01:00 UTC: TriLoCo-Midwest | 20 Feb 19:00 UTC: Platform Team | 20 Feb 20:00 UTC: Education Team | 20 Feb 21:00 UTC: Server Team
* ubotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Desktop Team Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 15 Feb 04:00 UTC: MOTU | 20 Feb 01:00 UTC: TriLoCo-Midwest | 20 Feb 19:00 UTC: Platform Team | 20 Feb 20:00 UTC: Education Team | 20 Feb 21:00 UTC: Server Team
<pitti> hi
 * mvo_ waves
 * tedg yawns
<Riddell> abend
<pedro_> hello folks !
<Keybuk> ...
<mvo_> ...
<Keybuk> now, I would normally at this point be checking the wiki
<Keybuk> and loading up Launchpad
<Keybuk> except neither epiphany or firefox want to play with me
<kwwii> Riddell: it is a bit early to say that :-)
<Keybuk> :-(
<mvo_> links!
<Riddell> kwwii: moin
<MacSlow> hi
<seb128> Keybuk: did you upgrade epiphany?
 * MacSlow feels not so well today
<seb128> Keybuk: it has been fixed this morning and the new version is available for a few hours now
<Keybuk> seb128: I upgraded a couple of hours ago, but I've been in meetings with Mark since then
<seb128> ok
<seb128> maybe you got the xulrunner update but not the epiphany one
<asac> Keybuk: blame me ;)
<Keybuk> maybe
<Keybuk> firefox is being held now
<Keybuk> *shrug*
<Keybuk> Annnnnyway
<Keybuk> Feature Freeze
<Keybuk> *scary music*
<MacSlow> I hate that "sound"
<pitti> TEH DAY OF RECKONING!
<Keybuk> I'll run down specs in alphabetical order that aren't marked Beta Available yet
<MacSlow> and most of that because I suck at packaing
<Keybuk> an update on where it is, what bits remain, etc. would be appreciated
 * MacSlow steps at the front of the queue
<Keybuk> pitti: partition-management
<pitti> fsck usplash integration is beta available, rest not started
<Keybuk> (I may have lied about alphabetical order, I've clicked something on LP and it's gone random on me)
<pitti> I might get to it a bit later, so that it'll either land in hardy+1, hardy.1, or hardy if I get a FF exception
<Keybuk> ok, we talked about this on the phone yesterday - the other bits are a "nice to have" but we won't mind if we don't get them
<pitti> but it's low prio
<pitti> right
<Keybuk> so it's a good side project while you fix bugs, but don't spend much time on it
<Keybuk> it can go in a PPA, or it might make the release
<pitti> I definitively need to sort out root partition fsck, though
<Keybuk> yes, that would be very good
<Keybuk> what's the timescale on that?
<pitti> it works with ext3, but immediately kills your reiserfs root partition :)
<pitti> Keybuk: today is crazy (merging Arne's langpack stuff, MIRs, NEW, etc.)
<pitti> is 'by next meeting' acceptable?
<pitti> (note that I didn't modify checkroot.sh for that reason, it won't kill kittens until then)
<kwwii> reiserfs killing things, like father like son?
<MacSlow> kwwii, that was nasty
<kwwii> I'll shut up now
<mvo_> pitti: the langpack changes are in?
<pitti> mvo_: I spent an hour reviewing and fixing the branch, not yet
<pitti> I'll continue after meeting
<pitti> but I shuold be able to get it in today
<tedg> kwwii: Oh, I was thinking that too -- couldn't figure out phrasing :)
<mvo_> pitti: ok, language-selector need to be updated then as well
<pitti> mvo_: why?
<pitti> mvo_: we still have language-support-XX meta-meta-packages
<mvo_> pitti: aha, good. then its not a must-have
<pitti> or do you actually want to add knobs for part installations?
<pitti> like, 'only input support and translation aids'?
<Keybuk> pitti: by next meeting would be great
<mvo_> it was planed to add the knobs, but I'm not sure how far arne went down this path
<pitti> Keybuk: ack
<mvo_> pitti: I personally think that its not that important, the common case is well covered, I will still double check that the transition does not break assumptions in it
 * pitti hugs mvo_
<Keybuk> ok
<Keybuk> pitti: hardy-reducing-duplication
<pitti> that has come quite far
<pitti> I hope that we can kill gcc-4.1 when the kernel folks manage to build with 4.2 on ppc and hppa
<pitti> the rest is "utterly hard and requires lots of upstream work" and thus unrealistic
<Keybuk> I assume that there's no major pieces of work there, other than killing more deps?
<pitti> right; as I wrote in the status window yesterday, it's just gcc-4.1 left for hardy
<Keybuk> ok
<pitti> perhaps db4.2 if a miracle happens with openldap
<pitti> but that's a target of opportunity
<Keybuk> ok, cool
<Keybuk> Riddell: gold star ;)
<Riddell> yay
<Keybuk> mvo_: likewise
 * mvo_ beams
<Keybuk> kwwii: your specs should probably not have been specs
<kwwii> Keybuk: yeah, I am glad that we agree on that :-)
<Keybuk> MacSlow: hardy-desktop-effects-shortcuts
<MacSlow> Keybuk, are exposed in pager, show-desktop-applet and window-action-menu
<Keybuk> what's missing on the spec?
<MacSlow> most of the stuff needed to patch libwnck
<Keybuk> that gives us which bits?
<MacSlow> Keybuk, nothing I guess
<Keybuk> are the keyboard shortcuts showing up in the general preferences dialog?
<pitti> I get kb shortcuts help in the pager and in the window menu now
<MacSlow> there's a small tweak I still like to do for the pager-tooltip... have the stuff for expo, scale and zoom only show up if these plugins are actually active
<MacSlow> Keybuk, that's what mvo did
<Keybuk> they don't show up here :-/
<MacSlow> Keybuk, and that's... urps
<mvo_> Keybuk: oh? they should be available under compiz
<Keybuk> mvo_: that sounds like a bug ;)
<mvo_> Keybuk: however there is a bug in super key
<mvo_> Keybuk: I mean, the super key is not displayed nor can be set
<Keybuk> yeah, my oldest reported Ubuntu bug <g>
<seb128> mvo_: there is no compiz in the shortcuts dialog
<mvo_> I think I can fix the display bit
<mvo_> its under desktop
<Keybuk> MacSlow: hardy-desktop-effects-profiles
<Keybuk> mvo_: oh, wait "initiate window picker" ?
<mvo_> yes
<mvo_> the descriptions suck
<MacSlow> Keybuk, stuck about "half-way-through" due to packaging issues
<mvo_> but that can be fixed realtively easily
<Keybuk> MacSlow: what are the packaging problems?
<seb128> MacSlow: feel free to ask on #ubuntu-desktop when you have packaging issues
<lool> Yeah, same offer here; plenty of packager around to help you :)
<seb128> or in query
<lool> +s
<mvo_> ++
<mvo_> from me
<lool> GIVE US THE BLING
<Keybuk> MacSlow: sounds like there's plenty of people to help ;)
<MacSlow> Keybuk, profile selection and recognition in g-c-c works... simple-ccsm bits still todo... all of it not in repos yet due to me sucking at packaging (being slow)
 * Keybuk has had a lunch-time conversation with mdz today about sucking less at a company at getting training for new people
<MacSlow> Keybuk, beta for profiles is +2 days I guess
<Keybuk> especially in packaging, but also in things like our release cycle, processes, etc.
<MacSlow> Keybuk, lost some days last week due to packaing issues
<Keybuk> MacSlow: ok, let us say Thursday next week for -profiles
<MacSlow> Keybuk, that sounds doable
<Keybuk> there weren't any remaining pieces in hardy-desktop-effects right?
<MacSlow> Keybuk, no... was more of a "meta-spec" and umbrella for profiles, shortcuts and general integration work
<Keybuk> (the remaining pieces on my list are covered by profiles)
<Keybuk> ok
<Keybuk> that's beta available then <g>
<Keybuk> please update the status
<MacSlow> Keybuk, well if I get libcompizconfig and g-c-c sorted out packagin-wise part of it can already land today
<Keybuk> hardy-shine and sparkle aren't really on the 8.04 list, and neither is gdm-face-browser (though it's targetted for May)
<MacSlow> Keybuk, only creating a custom-profile via simple-ccsm will probably not land today
<Keybuk> ok, thanks
<Keybuk> tedg: about-this-computer
<tedg> I need to finish the package, but that should be done today.
<Keybuk> do you need help with the packaging?
<MacSlow> Keybuk, I'm looking forward to continue working on those... mostly because that's a bit more focues and sounds less like packaing-work needed ehre and there :)
<tedg> I got all the python build stuff done yesterday, but starting on Debian stuff today.
<tedg> Keybuk: Not yet :)  I probably will later today.
<Keybuk> MacSlow: we do need to get you up to speed on packaging though
<seb128> same sa MacSlow, feel free to ask on IRC or by mail since it's harder to use on IRC when on different timezones
<Keybuk> I'll sort something out and let you know as soon as I can
<Riddell> tedg: how's the qt side?
<tedg> Riddell: Not great, but I was told that can be a bugfix and wasn't required for FF.
<Keybuk> kwwii: I might rope you into that too, since it'd help you unblock artwork issues if you know the basics
<MacSlow> Keybuk, seb128: yes... some intense "become a real MOTU/deb-dev" is something I seriously need
<kwwii> Keybuk: okidoki
<tedg> Riddell: I also need to figure out which KDE package to adjust to put it somewhere.
<Riddell> tedg: right
<tedg> Riddell: I figure I'll ask when I have the QT one working better.
<tedg> I do also have a gnome-panel patch that puts it in the panel.
<Riddell> tedg: that's not hard, although it does need doing twice for KDEs 3 and 4
<Keybuk> cleanup-audio-jumble I think colin was going to track that with Luke and ask you for help as needed?  or are there remaining bits on your plate?
<MacSlow> seb128, isn't there also some deb-dev related talk at FOSDEM next week?
<tedg> There are a couple of remaining bits on my plate.  Not a lot though, Luke already had a lot done.
<Keybuk> could you send me a mail cataloguing the remaining bits there?
<Riddell> MacSlow: I'm doing that
<MacSlow> Riddell, ok... then I'll be in the audience!
<tedg> Keybuk: Sounds good.
<Keybuk> seb128: you have a pppoeconf-gui assigned to you?
<Keybuk> didn't that one get a "go straight to implemented, thanks upstream!" pass?
<seb128> Keybuk: yes it did
<Keybuk> ah, it's beta available
<Keybuk> sorry
<Keybuk> I'm blind
<lool> So that's provided by NM now?
<Keybuk> lool: gnome-system-tools iirc
<lool> Aha
<seb128> lool: yes, network-admin does that
<Keybuk> ok, I'd like to run back through you all again to confirm what you'll be working on for the next couple of months
<lool> Indeed, 2.21.3, pretty cool
<Keybuk> (not just for yours and my sake, but for the rest of the team as well :p)
 * lool will try the UMTS support then
<seb128> lool: you are welcome to test if you use pppoe ;-)
<seb128> that too
<Keybuk> mpt is on leave, but he'll be working on some early sketches and mockups for the 8.10 UI Refresh
<lool> (I don't have pppoe that I know of)
<Keybuk> he's also available for UI critique/help, but as we get closer to Beta, UI shouldn't be changing much :-)
<Keybuk> kwwii: what will you be working on?
<kwwii> Keybuk: finishing up the UI mockups, finalizing panel icons, getting the wallpaper for 8.04 ready, looking in to making that look good with gdm
<Keybuk> UI mockups for the 8.10 theme?
<kwwii> oh, and the clear looks stuff
<Keybuk> when's the clearlooks change likely to happen?
<kwwii> Keybuk: yes
<Keybuk> and when will we see the first 8.04 wallpaper idea?
<seb128> Keybuk: when will mpt be back?
<kwwii> Keybuk: I would like to test it out in the next day or two
<Keybuk> seb128: monday
<seb128> ok
<kwwii> Keybuk: the first one should be in already (if pitti or seb included it yesterday)
<seb128> doh, didn't
<kwwii> I put the source package online for them to check
<seb128> pitti: did you? ;-)
<pitti> o_O? no, I'm not aware of it
<pitti> I don't have a mail about it
<seb128> I've been busy debugging g-p-m and forget
<seb128> pitti: he asked on #ubuntu-desktop
 * pitti looks in his spam folder
<pitti> oh, then I probably missed that, sorry; I get too much IRC stuff ATM (FF crazyness)
<seb128> pitti: yesterday afternoon
<seb128> no problem
<Keybuk> ok, which of you will do that for Ken? :)
<seb128> I said I would look at it if you didn't and I've been busy with other things
<seb128> kwwii: what is the URL again?
<kwwii> seb128, pitti: I'll send an email with the urls
<Keybuk> so for 8.04, we're using clearlooks and having new wallpaper
<pitti> so, no ubuntu theme any more?
<kwwii> right
<seb128> kwwii: don't bother I'll look at it now
<kwwii> and perhaps a gdm update
<Keybuk> 8.10 you're preparing some mock-ups I can hand around when I'm in the office next week (so, err, soon please :p)
<seb128> Keybuk: that is good news ;-)
<seb128> clearlooks with orange colors, right?
<kwwii> Keybuk: right, I'll get that done by tomorrow
<Keybuk> ok
<pitti> heh, and I was about to report a bug report against compiz which always has blue window decorations at startup until I start gnome-appearance-properties :)
<Keybuk> tedg: what will you be working on?
<Keybuk> pitti: metacity does that too sometimes, apparentlyt
<mvo> pitti: meh, a race condition
<seb128> pitti: that's a known bug, I've been pinged mvo every now and then about it :-)
<mvo> seb128: you have fix, no?
<mvo> its just not applied yet because I'm not 100% confident in it
<seb128> Keybuk: that would be weird, never noticed that, but compiz does it almost every time
<seb128> mvo: well, using dbus again for the decorator
<pitti> never saw it with metacity either
<Keybuk> seb128: desrt thought it was pretty, and made a real theme that does it on purpose
<tedg> Keybuk: Audio jumble bits probably first, as to get that out of the way.  Then I need to really start on GPM bugs, I've let it linger and they've collected.
<Keybuk> tedg: *nods* :-)
<seb128> Keybuk: ;-)
<Keybuk> tedg: and gnome-screensaver needs some harsh love too
<seb128> tedg: agree, I started looking at those yesterday, they is 300 bugs, 200 of them are NEW which means ignored
<seb128> s/they/there
<MacSlow> seb128, aren't these bugs mostly compiz/DRI issues?
<seb128> maybe we can convince pedro_ to organise a bug day to clean some of those ;-)
<tedg> Yeah, the crux of the problem is trying to figure out where in the system things broke down.  Half the time GPM is just the messenger.
<kwwii> Keybuk: btw, I sent you a tar.bz2 with the raw pics for the 8.10 mockups a few days ago
<pedro_> seb128: only if we have some debugging instructions ;-)
<Keybuk> tedg: if you need a hand understanding HAL, pitti can help
<pitti> tedg: right, I guess many hw specific issues are hal or pm-utils bugs
<seb128> MacSlow: the theme one? it's a race between the gnome-settings-daemon and the decorator
<Keybuk> if you need a hand with packaging, anyone can help
<Keybuk> kwwii: you did indeed :-)
<MacSlow> seb128, no the 200 new screensaver-bugs
<seb128> MacSlow: I was speaking about gnome-power-manager
<Keybuk> ok
<Keybuk> Riddell: what will you be doing?
<mvo> MacSlow: there shouldn't be many, we run fullscreen windows unredirected
<MacSlow> seb128, mixed up the context then
<seb128> tedg: ^ what pedro said, if you could write a wiki page on how to triage g-p-m bugs that would be useful
<Riddell> Keybuk: KDE 4 CDs (just stuck on a bug, I think cjwatson_ needs to look), KDE 3.5.9 packaging, KDE 4.0.2 packaging, getting out all the bugs in the hardy features
<mvo> so games are (most of the time) fine too
<MacSlow> mvo, that's what got me wondering
<Keybuk> Riddell: did you get unblocked on the seeds?  have you spoken to colin about the bug?
<Riddell> Keybuk: yes, spent most of yesterday working on it with his help
<mvo> pedro_ is a wizard, he did wonders on the update-manager bug count (similar problem, most of the time its just the messanger)
<MacSlow> mvo, all of these issues never happened to me after gutsy was released... maybe a bit earlier
<tedg> seb128, pedro_: My goal was to go through and start triaging to write the instructions.
<pedro_> i was about to organize one based on pidgin next week but we can delay that and organize a gpm one
<Riddell> Keybuk: it's all there but breaks somewhere that I can't work out
<Keybuk> cjwatson: ^ :-)
<cjwatson> yeah, I saw, it's something to do with the universe mirroring process
 * pedro_ hugs mvo
<seb128> tedg: good
<tedg> pedro_: No, I think two would be better, give me a chance to get some good instructions together.
<cjwatson> I've seen it before in other flavours that build from universe
<cjwatson> I'm happy that the bulk of the work is in place though
 * seb128 hugs pedro_
<pedro_> tedg: ok cool!
 * pedro_ hugs seb128 back
<cjwatson> Riddell: I actually suspect that it would work eventually if you kept retrying - it's a race between the main and universe mirroring processes AFAICS
<Keybuk> ok
<Keybuk> pitti: what will you be working on?
<pitti> my next tasks, in decreasing priority: discuss some language-support-* reorganization problems with Arne (will slip FF then, as he is already asleep), debug and fix the fsck+usplash+rootfs issue, start working on general bug fixing and catc
<pitti> hing up on my bugs folder
<pitti> so I already need a FF exception for the language-support-* split
<pitti> (which is relatively unintrusive, but arne put in loads of new packages which need review and discussion)
<pitti> for the record, we are currently on top of the MIR queue \o/
<Keybuk> *nods*
<Keybuk> lots and lots of general bug fixing? :)
<pitti> (almost all bugs are incomplete or done)
<lool> pitti: Cool, thanks for the UME stuff, that was probably lots of work!
<pitti> Keybuk: my "in progress" list needs urgent attention :)
<Keybuk> :-)
<Keybuk> mvo: and how about you?
<mvo> next tasks:
<mvo> â¢ update-manager bugfixing, more robustness
<mvo> â¢ compiz updates for the upcomming fusion 0.7 release
<mvo> â¢ trying to catchup on my bug mail
<mvo> upgrade testing
<mvo> general maintainance (desktop database update, command-not-found data update, ddtp update)
<Keybuk> mvo: if you could take first-pass over compiz bugs (Mirco has some 8.10 things to deliver early) that would be much appreciated
 * mvo nods
<mvo> sure, I will do that
<Keybuk> thanks
<Keybuk> MacSlow: ?
 * MacSlow thanks mvo too
<MacSlow> * finish desktop-effect-profiles
<MacSlow> * sparkle
<MacSlow> * shine
<MacSlow> * gdm-face-browser
<Keybuk> so to expand on that for the others
<Keybuk> Mark is very keen for us to demonstrate some of the 8.10 pieces early
<MacSlow> (in between getting up to speed with Xorg/DRI, clutter and some newer OpenGL-stuff)
<Keybuk> (ie. at UDS)
<Keybuk> the chosen piece is face browser
<Keybuk> so Mirco will be implementing that before UDS, so we can show it off there
<Keybuk> and will therefore beat everyone at getting the first Implemented hardy+1 spec :-)
<Keybuk> (those who've been at this company for a while will recognise that "very keen" is an understatement :p)
<Keybuk> and last, but no means least
<Keybuk> Loic and Seb
<MacSlow> Keybuk, I guess it means it the highest prio it can ever have, right?! :)
<seb128> GNOME updates and desktop bugs fixing
<lool> For the desktop half of things:
<lool> â¢ Continue misc stuff; usually GNOME updates and bug chasing
<lool> â¢ If time permits, resume work on the "memory requirements" topic
<Keybuk> ok
<Keybuk> and pedro_ will be helping us with QA wherever it's needed
<seb128> lot of testing, making sure all strings are translatable, etc too
<Keybuk> except those "   " ones that preferences dialogs seem to like? :)
<seb128> pedro_ rocks on desktop bug triage ;-)
<pitti> has there been any outcome on login speed testing?
<seb128> pitti: not really, we could win a bit without deskbar-applet
<seb128> otherwise to obvious target
<seb128> gconf and disk fragmentation don't help
<seb128> there is some user comments about readahead on the launchpad bug saying that makes quite a difference but nobody really worked on a clean solution to do that yet
<lool> If gconf's disk fragmentation is an issue, we could schedule a periodical check like fsck to rebuild the gconf tree on login
<Keybuk> ok, I've got to run to the team leads meeting now, so I'll have to adjourn the meeting :)
<Keybuk> we've hit an hour anyway
<Keybuk> if there are other agenda items, please carry on and discuss, and I'll keep an eye on the log
<pitti> thanks everyone
<mvo> I would like to ask about the feeling of samba-share vs. shares-admin (from gnome-system-tools)
<MacSlow> ok... I'll get back to my packaing-battle... and come crying in #ubuntu-devel if I'm totally lost
<mvo> IMHO the samba-shares has the nicer gui and seems to be generally easier now that we have the samba usershares enabled by default
<MacSlow> Riddell, ehm... when is you talk at fosdem?
<MacSlow> Riddell, I just skimmed the pages on the fosdem'08 site and did not find it
<pitti> mvo: where does samba-share come from? not g-s-t apparently?
<Riddell> MacSlow: http://www.fosdem.org/2008/schedule/devroom/crossdesktop
<mvo> pitti: nautilus-share is a seperate package (sorry for the confusion with the packagename)
<mvo> its in the archive already
<mvo> not enough sleep :/
<MacSlow> Riddell, ah thanks!
* ubotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 15 Feb 04:00 UTC: MOTU | 20 Feb 01:00 UTC: TriLoCo-Midwest | 20 Feb 19:00 UTC: Platform Team | 20 Feb 20:00 UTC: Education Team | 20 Feb 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 21 Feb 14:00 UTC: Desktop Team
<zul> @schedule montreal
<ubotu> Schedule for America/Montreal: 14 Feb 23:00: MOTU | 19 Feb 20:00: TriLoCo-Midwest | 20 Feb 14:00: Platform Team | 20 Feb 15:00: Education Team | 20 Feb 16:00: Server Team | 21 Feb 09:00: Desktop Team
<vince-rouge> bsoir
<vince-rouge> heu hello
#ubuntu-meeting 2008-02-15
* ubotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: MOTU Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 20 Feb 01:00 UTC: TriLoCo-Midwest | 20 Feb 19:00 UTC: Platform Team | 20 Feb 20:00 UTC: Education Team | 20 Feb 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 21 Feb 14:00 UTC: Desktop Team
<nxvl> @date
<emgent> @schedule rome
<ubotu> Schedule for Europe/Rome: Current meeting: MOTU 20 Feb 02:00: TriLoCo-Midwest | 20 Feb 20:00: Platform Team | 20 Feb 21:00: Education Team | 20 Feb 22:00: Server Team | 21 Feb 15:00: Desktop Team
<nxvl> @schedule lima
<ubotu> Schedule for America/Lima: Current meeting: MOTU 19 Feb 20:00: TriLoCo-Midwest | 20 Feb 14:00: Platform Team | 20 Feb 15:00: Education Team | 20 Feb 16:00: Server Team | 21 Feb 09:00: Desktop Team
<nxvl> emgent: isn't the MOTU meeting in 10 minutes ?
<emgent> today is 15 Feb
<emgent> motu meeting is in 20 Feb
<nxvl> as in schedule
<nxvl> but i think i read a mail saying it's tpoday
<nxvl> today*
<emgent> false
<emgent> i think
<emgent> but general meeting ?
<emgent> or motu Loco meeting ?
<nxvl> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-motu/2008-February/003280.html
<nxvl> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-motu/2008-February/003330.html
<pochu> nxvl: that's in one hour, isn't it?
<pochu> @now
<ubotu> Current time in Etc/UTC: February 15 2008, 03:57:45 - Current meeting: MOTU
<pochu> No, it's right now
<emgent> some minutes ago should start
<emgent> @now rome
<ubotu> Current time in Europe/Rome: February 15 2008, 04:58:30 - Current meeting: MOTU
<nxvl> @now lima
<ubotu> Current time in America/Lima: February 14 2008, 22:58:42 - Current meeting: MOTU
<TheMuso> @now Sydney
<ubotu> Current time in Australia/Sydney: February 15 2008, 14:58:46 - Current meeting: MOTU
<TheMuso> Ok, who do we have here?
<nxvl> o/
<emgent> nxvl, you are not motu :P
<nxvl> not yet
<TheMuso> emgent: The meetings are open.
 * pochu is half asleep, but here
 * nxvl es like pochu 
<nxvl> i need to sleep in while
<TheMuso> Hey LaserJock.
<pochu> hey nxvl :)
<LaserJock> wahoo, made it
<TheMuso> Are people here who posted agenda items?
<LaserJock> well, I added the last 2
<TheMuso> Ok, what aobut the first? Well I guess the first doesn't matter so much.
<TheMuso> about
<TheMuso> As it is, unless someone else wants to chair, I don't mind doing it.
<TheMuso> Volunteer for minutes?
<pochu> I think that was ScottK or \sh (the first one)
<TheMuso> Right.
<pochu> I can do them... tomorrow ;)
<TheMuso> pochu: Thanks.
<LaserJock> did we do a roll call already?
<TheMuso> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 04:05. The chair is TheMuso.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<TheMuso> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Meetings
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Meetings
<TheMuso> LaserJock: I just asked who is here.
<TheMuso> Does anybody have anything to say about he first agenda item, or should be postpone it for the next meeting?
<TheMuso> Hrm, and since there are only a few of us, I'm wondering whether we should leave them for the list/the next meeting/
<pochu> It sounds good to me, although it says "e.g." so it sounds as it should be discussed (or postponed)
<pochu> TheMuso: we can wait a little to see if there is someone late
<TheMuso> pochu: Yeah, perhaps I was a little hasty in starting things. :p
<LaserJock> heh, we could at least have a quick discussion I suppose
<TheMuso> LaserJock: About which one(s)?
<LaserJock> all of them
<LaserJock> if not a lot of people show up
<TheMuso> Yeah, and its looking increasinly like they won't, but we can wait a bit.
<TheMuso> Yay, another MOTU.
<TheMuso> RAOF: You are here for the meeting, aren't you?
<pochu> motus += 1
<RAOF> TheMuso: Yes, I am.  Just a little late :)
<TheMuso> Tis alright, we haven't started in urnist yet.
<RAOF> Unless my UTC-foo is particularly bad.
<TheMuso> RAOF: NO it isn't.
<TheMuso> Well, what say we get started?
 * ajmitch isn't exactly here for the meeting, is almost beer o'clock :)
<TheMuso> Or do you all think we should postponee?
<RAOF> How many do we have?
<TheMuso> nxvl, pochu, LaserJock, yourself, and myself.
<RAOF> Hm.  Doesn't seem a particularly good turnout, but will postponing get a better turnout?
<pochu> and half of ajmitch!
<RAOF> The soper half :)
<RAOF> s/p/b/
<TheMuso> RAOF: Well I think the times rotate now, so the next one is more likely to land in a more suitable timezone.
 * LaserJock likes this time :-)
<RAOF> TheMuso: So that means we should go ahead, surely.  The idea of rotating timezones would be so that everyone can participate.
<TheMuso> RAOF: Yes I know.
<TheMuso> Alright, lets go.
<TheMuso> [topic] mailing list policy (e.g. all MOTUs must be subscribed to devel-announce, should be subscribed -motu and -devel, where to post announcements etc.)
<MootBot> New Topic:  mailing list policy (e.g. all MOTUs must be subscribed to devel-announce, should be subscribed -motu and -devel, where to post announcements etc.)
<TheMuso> Since whoever added that doesn't seem to be here, what does everybody think? It sounds rather self-explanetory.
<LaserJock> are we wanting a wiki page that has the "You need to be sub'd to ubuntu-motu, ubuntu-devel, and ubuntu-devel-announce"
<LaserJock> ?
<RAOF> It does, yes.  I think it's obvious that MOTUs should be expected to be subscribed to at least -motu & -devel-announce, and almost certainly -devel.
<pochu> I think the "must be subscribed to -devel-announce" is sensible.
<TheMuso> I think devel-announce, and -motu certainly.
<pochu> The others shouldn't be enforced IMHO
<pochu> hmm, -motu maybe...
<LaserJock> really?
<LaserJock> I feel like both -motu and -devel should be required
<TheMuso> LaserJock: Certainly -devel if you are about to/are a MOTU.
<TheMuso> As you are more active in the development community.
<pochu> well important things go to -devel-announce. The rest is discussion so I don't think we should enforce it.
<pochu> Although we should encourage it, of course.
<LaserJock> mdz and others have said that the design of -devel should be for *all* developers and -motu should be just motu specific stuff
<LaserJock> so I think people are really missing out on important stuff if they aren't sub'd
<TheMuso> LaserJock: Now that you put it that way, -devel is important enough, as some important discussions do come up from time to time, or someone wants something tested.
<LaserJock> it's not like they are high traffic
<pochu> I still don't think we should force people to subscribe to a list because they might be interested in a few mails
<pochu> LaserJock: true that, due to the split in -devel-discuss for devel and -mentors for motu
<TheMuso> nxvl: You still with us? Do you have any thoughts?
<RAOF> pochu: Surely it's not *that* much of a burden?  I get ~40 Ubuntu mails/day on busy days, and I'm subscribed to all sorts of lists.
<pochu> Messages: 205 <--- ubuntu-motu in January
<TheMuso> Yeah the traffic is not high at all.
<pochu> Messages: 105 <--- ubuntu-devel in January
<TheMuso> on -devel
<LaserJock> I just feel like if -motu and -devel are really burdens then I have some other questions
<LaserJock> if you know what I mean
<pochu> RAOF: lucky you ;) I get hundreds every day, but I'm subscribed to too many I'm afraid...
<RAOF> So that'd be ~10 mails/day for -motu & -devel being mandatory.  That doesn't seem onerous at all.
<LaserJock> I don't think we need to have some sort of penalty or ML cops or anything
<TheMuso> No, I see it more as an encouragement.
<TheMuso> As they'd get more out of the development community at least reading those lists.
<RAOF> It would just be listed somewhere as expected behaviour.
<TheMuso> RAOF: Yeah.
<pochu> Well I'm saying all the time that we should encourage it, but not force it
<LaserJock> but a wiki page that says that you *should* be sub'd is good, and generally saying it's assumed
<pochu> Although -devel-discuss should be enforced.
<TheMuso> devel-discuss?
<TheMuso> You sure?
<pochu> Err, -devel-announce
<LaserJock> -devel-announce yes
<RAOF> pochu: I thought d-discus was at least partially a honeypot :)
<pochu> TheMuso: I'm considering unsubscribing from -discuss ;)
<TheMuso> Right, I thought so.
<pochu> RAOF: yeah sadly it is
<TheMuso> So does anybody wan to volunteer to update the wiki?
<LaserJock> do we have a good wiki page for that?
<RAOF> LaserJock: That's what I was thinking.  I can't think of one, offhand.
 * TheMuso doesn't know, as he rarely looks at the MOTU part of the wiki these days.
<TheMuso> Well perhaps its someting we tell new contributors who are regularly involved.
<TheMuso> something
<TheMuso> And, how do we enforce devel-announce?
<TheMuso> We can't really enforce any of it really.
<RAOF> Sign up ~ubuntu-dev to devel-announce? :)
<LaserJock> sure we can
<LaserJock> have a devel-announce admin sign up everybody in ~motu
<LaserJock> :-)
<TheMuso> Yeah, but I don't think its something we can force contributors to do.
<RAOF> Why would we need to force contributors to do that?
<RAOF> We can suggest it to them, and if they don't then, well, that's one of the reasons their work is filtered through MOTUs.
<LaserJock> no, this should be a MOTU thing
<pochu> LaserJock: then motus could just filter mails from whateverlist to /dev/null :P
<LaserJock> well, that would be very  unfortunate
<LaserJock> hmm, we need a "MOTU Reference" wiki page
<LaserJock> I just get so lost
<RAOF> Hey, maybe https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopers is a good page?
<LaserJock> well
<LaserJock> that one is just so big
<LaserJock> I need like the reference version
<RAOF> "MOTUhood for dummies"
<LaserJock> that links to all the stuff and has nice checklists so we don't forget
<RAOF> That'd actually be a useful page, yeah.
<LaserJock> so it's not "I need to learn how to ..." but "I need to remember how to ..." ;-)
<RAOF> Updated with "current/impending freeze: <url> (exception process <url>)", etc.
<LaserJock> yep
<RAOF> "Where's that useful page about reviewing new library packages again?"
<RAOF> Etc.
<TheMuso_> Sorry, just got booted and reconnected.
<TheMuso_> What did I miss?
<RAOF> I didn't see you get booted, so I don't know.
<LaserJock> TheMuso_: what was the last you saw?
<RAOF> Last thing you saw?
<RAOF> LaserJock & I have been musing that a "Daily MOTU tasks quick reference guide" wiki page would be nice.
<TheMuso> < RAOF> Why would we need to force contributors to do that?
<RAOF> TheMuso: http://pastebin.com/mcce1ddb
<TheMuso> RAOF: thanks.
<TheMuso> So... What should we do? Perhaps raise it on the list?
<RAOF> Unless someone here wants to volunteer to write such a page, yes.
<RAOF> The result of this discussion is "MOTUs are expected be subscribed to at least -motu, -devel, and -devel-discuss.  Also, a MOTU Reference wiki page wourld be good", yes?
<TheMuso> Does everybody agree with RAOF assessment of the discussion?
<LucidFox> I agree.
<TheMuso> Ok, I'll take that as a yes, as we are almost out of time.
<TheMuso> [agreed] MOTUs are expected to be subscribed to at least -motu, -devel, and -devel-discuss. A MOTU wiki reference page would also be useful.
<MootBot> AGREED received:  MOTUs are expected to be subscribed to at least -motu, -devel, and -devel-discuss. A MOTU wiki reference page would also be useful.
<TheMuso> Moving along...
<TheMuso> should Ubuntu Membership be a general requirement for MOTUship? (see the [WWW] MOTU Council thread for more details)
<TheMuso> [topic] should Ubuntu Membership be a general requirement for MOTUship? (see the [WWW] MOTU Council thread for more details)
<MootBot> New Topic:  should Ubuntu Membership be a general requirement for MOTUship? (see the [WWW] MOTU Council thread for more details)
<TheMuso> So, shoudl this also be something that gets put to the list?
 * TheMuso thinks again that we postpone to either the next meeting, or to the list.
<RAOF> As I see it, the only reason why Ubuntu Membership should not be a requirement for MOTU would be if the process for aquiring UM is swamped by applicants.
<RAOF> TheMuso: That seems reasonable.  Send to list.
<TheMuso> Anybody got anythign else to say? Otherwise I say we leave this and the other items either for the list, or the next meeting.
<superm1> are some folks from motu-release present right now?
<superm1> i've got some things to mention at least to them
<TheMuso> Yes, I am, but we as a group haven't had a chance to talk about anything yet.
<superm1> I'll hold off then until everyone on the team talks then
<superm1> carry on :)
<TheMuso> Anybody?
<TheMuso> going....
<TheMuso> going..
<TheMuso> going.
<TheMuso> gone.
<pochu> Adjourned!
<TheMuso> [agreed] Discussion of whether Ubuntu membership should be a general requirement of MOTUship, as well as feature freeze policy, should be discussed either on the MOTU mailing list, or at the next meeting.
<MootBot> AGREED received:  Discussion of whether Ubuntu membership should be a general requirement of MOTUship, as well as feature freeze policy, should be discussed either on the MOTU mailing list, or at the next meeting.
<TheMuso> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 05:01.
<TheMuso> Thanks everybody.
* ubotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 20 Feb 01:00 UTC: TriLoCo-Midwest | 20 Feb 19:00 UTC: Platform Team | 20 Feb 20:00 UTC: Education Team | 20 Feb 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 21 Feb 14:00 UTC: Desktop Team | 27 Feb 12:00 UTC: Education Team
<dholbach> good morning
<coolbhavi> hi dholbach
<emgent> heya dholbach :)
* mako_ changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 20 Feb 01:00 UTC: TriLoCo-Midwest | 20 Feb 19:00 UTC: Platform Team | 20 Feb 20:00 UTC: Education Team | 20 Feb 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 21 Feb 14:00 UTC: Desktop Team | 21 FEb 20:00 UTC: Community Council Meeting | 27 Feb 12:00 UTC: Education Team
* ubotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 20 Feb 01:00 UTC: TriLoCo-Midwest | 20 Feb 19:00 UTC: Platform Team | 20 Feb 20:00 UTC: Education Team | 20 Feb 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 21 Feb 14:00 UTC: Desktop Team | 27 Feb 12:00 UTC: Education Team
<nxvl_work> @schedule
<ubotu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: 20 Feb 01:00: TriLoCo-Midwest | 20 Feb 19:00: Platform Team | 20 Feb 20:00: Education Team | 20 Feb 21:00: Server Team | 21 Feb 14:00: Desktop Team | 27 Feb 12:00: Education Team
#ubuntu-meeting 2008-02-16
<pochu_> Does a team owner need to be a member of the team to be able to administer it?
<pochu_> Err wrong channel, sorry
<jpatrick> pochu_: how dare you
<jpatrick> ;-)
<jpatrick> pochu_: answer is no
<ubuntuwestbengal> is this the correct channel to discuss the approval process for a new LoCo Team?
<ubuntuwestbengal> ?
<emgent> @schedule rome
<ubotu> Schedule for Europe/Rome: 20 Feb 02:00: TriLoCo-Midwest | 20 Feb 20:00: Platform Team | 20 Feb 21:00: Education Team | 20 Feb 22:00: Server Team | 21 Feb 15:00: Desktop Team | 27 Feb 13:00: Education Team
<schultmc> hrm - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda says there's a Community Council meeting on 2008-02-21 at 20:00 UTC - is that incorrect?
#ubuntu-meeting 2008-02-17
<protonchris> @schedule denver
<ubotu> Schedule for America/Denver: 19 Feb 18:00: TriLoCo-Midwest | 20 Feb 12:00: Platform Team | 20 Feb 13:00: Education Team | 20 Feb 14:00: Server Team | 21 Feb 07:00: Desktop Team | 27 Feb 05:00: Education Team
* ubotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 20 Feb 01:00 UTC: TriLoCo-Midwest | 20 Feb 19:00 UTC: Platform Team | 20 Feb 20:00 UTC: Education Team | 20 Feb 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 21 Feb 14:00 UTC: Desktop Team | 21 Feb 20:00 UTC: Community Council
<Buzz-CP> sup bro
#ubuntu-meeting 2009-02-09
<knome> qense, hello.
<qense> hello
<qense> if you're coming for the Ubuntu Wanted meeting you should come to #ubuntu-website :)
<knome> a-ha....
#ubuntu-meeting 2009-02-10
<Keybuk> afternoon all
<cjwatson> afternoon
 * cjwatson wonders if mdz and sabdfl will emerge from the managers' sprint
<mdz> I don't know where sabdfl is
<Keybuk> Texas?
<mdz> he's in London today but he's not with me
<mdz> cjwatson: would you mind chairing?
<cjwatson> initiation, huh? :-)
<cjwatson> sure
<cjwatson> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoardAgenda:
<cjwatson> * Patent policy (mdz)
<mdz> heh
<mdz> so, we need a patent policy
<Keybuk> you were talking to Amanda about that?
<mdz> I've asked jono to start working on it
<mdz> but it's a relatively low priority
<mdz> I continue to keep it on the radar because it's blocking us responding to a request for a TB ruling (ffmpeg)
<mdz> I don't think there's anything to discuss or report in the meeting at present
<mdz> cjwatson: mootbot?
<cjwatson> whoops
<cjwatson> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 09:09. The chair is cjwatson.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<cjwatson> [TOPIC] Patent policy (mdz)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Patent policy (mdz)
<cjwatson> Nothing to report
<cjwatson> [TOPIC] Per-package uploader policy (persia)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Per-package uploader policy (persia)
<cjwatson> for the audience, there was a short thread on the TB list today
<cjwatson> Mark proposed that the language oriented towards small sets of packages and small developers be removed, on the grounds that the same requirements should apply to larger sets too
<cjwatson> he also recommended that the "for which there is no existing maintenance team" text be removed
<Keybuk> ah, the chicken entrails worked ... ;)
<sabdfl> hello all, voodoo voodo
<cjwatson> after a bit of back-and-forth, it seems that all posters are agreed on all counts
<persia> So this document should be generalised to cover packaging groups and package sets of arbitrary size, from 1 (member|package) to largest feasible sets?
<cjwatson> where no other document governs
<Keybuk> persia: to be honest, just deleting a couple of words seems to generalise it adequately
<Keybuk> the Requirements *almost* document the requirements for any developer at this point
<persia> Keybuk, I'd probably change the title, but yes.
<Keybuk> and I like that
<cjwatson> (e.g. the desktop team might want to impose slightly different requirements, although I'd expect them to be generally starting from this baseline)
<sabdfl> +1 from me
<sabdfl> this document doesn't address the idea of delegation, which will become relevant when we really do have packagesets
<persia> cjwatson, So a given maintenance team may have additional requirements, but this would be the baseline set for all Ubuntu Developers?
<mdz> I'm afraid I haven't had the chance to read the proposal yet
<persia> sabdfl, Shall I add a section in "Commentary" to specifically address delegation?
<sabdfl> in the xubuntu case, we would end up with a xubuntu team who could add people to themselves independently of the TB
<mdz> and so I can't give an opinion yet
<persia> mdz, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopers/PerPackageUploaders
<sabdfl> persia: i would say we defer that till later
<cjwatson> sabdfl: but in general I would expect them to be playing by roughly the same rules
<persia> sabdfl, OK.
<sabdfl> cjwatson: very much so, yes, and we'd undelegate if we thought they weren't
<mdz> persia: thanks, though I had that already.  what I'm missing is a quiet 20 minutes when I'm not doing anything else to think it over ;-)
<cjwatson> shall we ratify this by mail, then, to give mdz a chance to absorb it?
<Keybuk> mdz: when was the last time you honestly had a quiet 20 minutes? :p
<Keybuk> cjwatson: +1
<cjwatson> there do not seem to be any major issues at present
<Keybuk> it seems we're generally in alignment, and simply need a final text to debate
<mdz> if the rest of the board is all +1, that's sufficient to move forward and i can review/comment/propose changes later on
<persia> If it is to be ratified by mail, I'd like to request someone else make the necessary changes to the page, to accurately represent the consensus of the TB.
<sabdfl> i can do that in 30 secs if you'd like, why don't we move on in the agenda, and i'll whip up a diff in the background?
<cjwatson> works for me
<Keybuk> sure
<cjwatson> I've been trying to absorb a list mdz sent me out of band with some pending business from a while back not on the agenda
<cjwatson> the one I didn't recognise was:
<cjwatson> * Blockage/issues in getting new developers into the project via MOTU
<cjwatson> has this been resolved, or does it need further discussion? if the latter, can somebody give a quick precis?
<mdz> this has largely merged into #4 on the same list
<mdz> which is ArchiveReorganisation governance
<mdz> the consensus seemed to be that the issues mainly have to do with the disconnect between the scope of MOTU and the range of contributions that developers want to make
<cjwatson> [TOPIC] Other business
<MootBot> New Topic:  Other business
<mdz> sabdfl: you have an update on cdrtools
<cjwatson> whoops
<cjwatson> [TOPIC] cdrtools
<MootBot> New Topic:  cdrtools
<sabdfl> eben moglen says that we cannot ship cdrtools
<Keybuk> rationale?
<sabdfl> so for the moment, that is off the table
<sabdfl> Keybuk: cddl and gpl incompatibility
<sabdfl> there are two things that could change that
<sabdfl> joerg could grant a specific permission on his cddl code, which he has declined to do
<sabdfl> or the incompatibility could be resolved through discussions between cddl and gpl stakeholders
<sabdfl> we can't influence either of those
<sabdfl> so for us, the matter is now closed
<Keybuk> *nods*
<sabdfl> mdz, you planned to minute that and get it onto the ubuntu-devel-news?
<cjwatson> in the event that the latter avenue resulted in a change to the CDDL, it would also require Joerg to release cdrtools under the new version of the licence, since the CDDL doesn't auto-upgrade (I'm told)
<mdz> sabdfl: it will be included in the minutes from this meeting
<cjwatson> although that would presumably be an easier sell
<sabdfl> cjwatson: it sounded like this was more a matter of "public commitment to interpret subtleties this way rather than that way"
<cjwatson> indeed
<sabdfl> eben was appropriately vague about who he may or may not be talking to in that regard
<cjwatson> as so often the case with licence interactions :-/
<sabdfl> ultimately, it boils down to the SFLC / FSF and the people who wrote / endorse / heavily used CDDL agreeing that they agree
<sabdfl> and of course, a judge could ruin everying afterwards
<sabdfl> but so far, there's no movement on that front
<sabdfl> that's all from me, mdz
<cjwatson> all right
<cjwatson> [TOPIC] Other business
<MootBot> New Topic:  Other business
<mdz> cjwatson: I sent you two other topics via PM
<cjwatson> that other business is going to keep on losing
<cjwatson> [TOPIC] Kernel firmware licensing
<MootBot> New Topic:  Kernel firmware licensing
<mdz> so, the TB was approached with concerns about unclear licensing for some of the firmware we ship
<mdz> the kernel team has investigated this, and as of the next upload, they have cleared everything except the DVB firmware
<mdz> which is still a work in progress
<mdz> the work is on track to be resolved for 9.04 as planned
<mdz> that is all, unless there are questions
<cjwatson> are there any process changes we need to ensure that this doesn't happen in future, or is that already handled within the kernel team?
<mdz> pgraner can answer that
<sabdfl> pgraner: is there a list of firmware removed in that upload?
<pgraner> cjwatson, I am reviewing all new firmware for licenses going forward and we added a milestone to the kernel schedule to review prior to relesase
<sabdfl> are we now stricter than debian, aka whiter than white?
<pgraner> sabdfl, I will publish to ubuntu-devel once we finish
<mdz> sabdfl: not in the least
<sabdfl> will this result in a significant regression of "just works" to the long tail of users?
<mdz> sabdfl: our policy remains unchanged: we will ship it if we have the legal right to redistribute
<mdz> the cases in question here were where the license was unknown or undocumented
<mdz> as with every other package, we need to include the license terms for all of the contents, and in some cases that may have been missing
<mdz> sabdfl: does that, plus the detail that pgraner will send to ubuntu-devel, address your questions?
<sabdfl> yes thanks
<cjwatson> [TOPIC] Kernel team upload privileges
<MootBot> New Topic:  Kernel team upload privileges
<sabdfl> but i had another question :-)
<cjwatson> whoops, go for it
<cjwatson> I'll just fix up the report afterwards
<sabdfl> is anybody tasked with trying to obtain redistribution privileges for the pieces we didn't have them for?
<mdz> sabdfl: not at present
<sabdfl> mdz: i think we should, in cases where we don't know definitively that the permission would be denied
<mdz> sabdfl: who do you think would be the appropriate person or people to chase that?
<mdz> it will be a long and twisty process of researching and possibly negotiation
<sabdfl> krafty, but let's discuss between you and i
<mdz> no bandwidth
<mdz> ok
<Keybuk> if the firmware is already in the kernel source, isn't it more likely that the licence is simply an omission of permission?
<Keybuk> or are you referring to only the firmware in the linux-firmware package?
<cjwatson> we pulled in a lot of things independently
<mdz> sabdfl: are you saying that I need to make it a priority to track down the copyright holders and contact them about this?
<mdz> Keybuk: as cjwatson says, it's not from the kernel source
<sabdfl> it's much lower priority than making ubuntu rock on ec2 ;-)
<sabdfl> but it's very much in line with wanting to make ubuntu rock on the long tail
<sabdfl> which is itself a priority
<mdz> sabdfl: I'm sure Pete can take someone off of OEM enablement to do that then
<mdz> to maintain the balance
<sabdfl> ok
<sabdfl> that's all from me, thanks
<cjwatson> can we move on to the upload privileges, then?
<sabdfl> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopers/PerPackageUploaders
<sabdfl> that has two edits from me
<cjwatson> I'm familiar with the general topic but do not know if particular people are being proposed here
<mdz> so I'm lacking a bit of background here, but I'm raising this on behalf of the kernel team because it is an urgent issue
<Keybuk> sabdfl: you've reintroduced a paragraph that suggestions that per-package-uploaders are not full ubuntu developers?
<mdz> they are short on team members who can upload the kernel, and are seeking better coverage there
<sabdfl> Keybuk: i thought i added one which specifically said they were!
<Keybuk> Per-package uploaders are Ubuntu developers for the purposes of polling Ubuntu developers, and are members of Ubuntu
<sabdfl> where did i miscue?
<Keybuk> "for the purposes of"
<mdz> Pete sent a request to the TB on 21 January
<Keybuk> I'd just say
<cjwatson> can we take the perpackageuploaders bit to mail
<cjwatson> ?
<sabdfl> Keybuk: i thought those were all the purposes that mattered :-)
<cjwatson> rather than interleaving it here
<sabdfl> oh, sorry cjwatson
<sabdfl> you mean't the kernel team's request
<cjwatson> oh, right, sorry
<sabdfl> i thought you meant acking the changes
<cjwatson> the "Kernel team upload privileges" topic we're on
<mdz> yes, see my messages above
<cjwatson> my bad
<cjwatson> the specific request to technical-board@ was for Stefan Bader
<mdz> Pete sent a request to the TB on 21 January, which was +1-ed by sabdfl
<mdz> regarding Stefan Bader
<mdz> but I'm not aware of a decision having been taken by the board yet
<Keybuk> We didn't actually consider it at the previous meeting, since the content of the policy was still in debate
<mdz> they are in a bind, and so I would like to expedite this
<Keybuk> given we've reached near-consensus on that, it may be appropriate to consider the applications now
<Keybuk> even though we don't have a final copy?
<cjwatson> +1
<mdz> I don't think it's necessary to block on final text
<mdz> and clearly sabdfl doesn't think so as he voted for it
<cjwatson> smb_tp is not here, although we could grab him
<sabdfl> yes, i think we can ack their request, as we're agreed on the principles and only lacking final words
<sabdfl> at least, their request is fine given my understanding of what we're agreed on :-)
<cjwatson> hi Stefan, thanks for joining
<smb_tp> cjwatson, np
<cjwatson> having reached broad consensus on what we need to grant per-package upload rights, we are considering Pete's request on your behalf for kernel upload privileges
<smb_tp> ah ok
<smb_tp> so what would you need from my side for that?
<cjwatson> I understand that this is generally for stable uploads, although the privileges would be granted for the packages in general (i.e. including jaunty)
<smb_tp> correct, I will be mainly focusing on the stable kernels and related packages (lrm, lum, linux-meta)
<smb_tp> and lbm
<cjwatson> I think we can waive the matter of ensuring that you understand that this isn't sole maintainership, given how the kernel team works
<cjwatson> I'm interested in how you've found the matter of working with userspace developers (beyond things like metapackages) - have you needed to do much of that?
<smb_tp> up to now, not yet. except for one or two cases of packages which are somewhat done by the kernel team (like module-init-tools)
<cjwatson> Keybuk probably has more direct knowledge there than I :)
<Keybuk> I've found that Stefan has integrated well with the kernel team, and works well with the parts that touch userspace
<sabdfl> any other questions or concerns?
<cjwatson> smb_tp: can you explain the current version of the kernel team's policy for which changes to take in stable releases?
<cjwatson> [sorry, will get a move on in a moment :-)]
<smb_tp> Currently it is to take all patches from the approriate stable kernel tree and apply them after reveiw. However there have been concerns about regression. Which was discussed on the sprint in Berlin
<smb_tp> So we agreed to keep on doing dso for LTS releases but limit that process for other releases to 4 months after release
<cjwatson> does that mean that for issues that we determine independently to be a problem (that nobody else has noticed yet), we're generally now pushing them round through upstream so that they can go into the upstream -stable tree?
<smb_tp> yes. those two regressions have been pushed and are now included int the 2.6.27.14 update from upstream
<cjwatson> that's great
<cjwatson> ok, I've reviewed a few of Stefan's uploads before and generally had no problems
<cjwatson> so I'm happy to go to a vote
<cjwatson> I prepared a list of affected source packages, which I believe to be:
<cjwatson> linux linux-backports-modules-2.6.28 linux-firmware linux-lpia linux-lpia-meta linux-meta linux-meta-rt linux-ports linux-ports-meta linux-restricted-modules linux-restricted-modules-rt linux-rt
<cjwatson> [VOTE] Stefan Bader for upload privileges to kernel source packages
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Stefan Bader for upload privileges to kernel source packages.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<cjwatson> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from cjwatson. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<sabdfl> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from sabdfl. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<sabdfl> mdz, Keybuk?
<Keybuk> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from Keybuk. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<smb_tp> cjwatson, Just to be complete. Do we have to sort out the list of modules now or can we do later. There might be some gaps.
<cjwatson> smb_tp: having established the general principle, I think we can add other source packages that match the same criteria later
<cjwatson> with minimal discussion
<smb_tp> ok, great. thanks
<cjwatson> (this is implementing package sets on the cheap)
<cjwatson> I'm going to assume that mdz has timed out, but we have 3/4 now
<cjwatson> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 3 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 3
<cjwatson> smb_tp: congratulations; I will implement this after the meeting
<cjwatson> thanks for stopping in at short notice
<cjwatson> [TOPIC] AOB
<MootBot> New Topic:  AOB
<smb_tp> Thanks to all. NP
<cjwatson> in the three minutes we have remaining ...
<sabdfl> nothing from me
<cjwatson> ok, that's a wrap then
<cjwatson> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:00.
<sabdfl> thanks all! berlin was great, looking forward to the release sprint :-)
<cjwatson> (I realised out of band that the list above is incomplete because I was only looking at jaunty; I will complete it using the same criteria)
<nijaba> o/
<ivoks> o/
<sabdfl> roll it
 * mathiaz waves
<kirkland> o/
<nxvl> \o/
<sommer> hey all
<Koon> o/
<mathiaz> let's get the ubuntu server team started
<mathiaz> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 10:02. The chair is mathiaz.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<mathiaz> today's meeting agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting
<zul> hello
<mathiaz> Last week minutes: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/Server/20090203
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] SRU for ebox
<MootBot> New Topic:  SRU for ebox
<mathiaz> sommer: I've uploaded all the packages to intrepid-proposed
<mathiaz> sommer: ebox, libebox and ebox-usersandgroups
<sommer> mathiaz: great thanks
<mathiaz> nxvl: what's the next step now?
<mathiaz> nxvl: IIRC you are/were part of the motu-sru team?
<nxvl> i still am
<nxvl> well, after the ACK from the motu-sru it goes to SRU-verification team
<nxvl> they need to ack it again
<nxvl> and then the archive admins will push that into -updates
<mathiaz> ok - so we're at step 5 from the SRU procedure  - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
<mathiaz> kirkland: do you know how to accept SRU ?
<kirkland> mathiaz: not yet, but i know where to find the procedure
<mathiaz> kirkland: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArchiveAdministration#Stable%20release%20updates
<mathiaz> so it seems that the ebox sru is in the hand of the archive admins
<kirkland> mathiaz: Riddell and I didn't go over that one yet, but I'll take care of it
<mathiaz> kirkland: great - thanks.
<mathiaz> [ACTION] kirkland to look into accepting the intrepid SRU for ebox packages
<MootBot> ACTION received:  kirkland to look into accepting the intrepid SRU for ebox packages
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Screen profiles
<MootBot> New Topic:  Screen profiles
<mathiaz> kirkland: ^^?
<kirkland> mathiaz: uploaded 1.20 yesterday
<kirkland> mathiaz: clears the bug queue
<kirkland> mathiaz: and takes into account some advice I got from the Ubuntu UI team
 * nxvl loves screen profiles
<kirkland> aka Desktop Experience
<mathiaz> kirkland: no new features? just bug fixes?
<kirkland> aka The Bling Team
<kirkland> mathiaz: there are new features too
<kirkland> mathiaz: including an ec2-cost estimator for the status bar
<mathiaz> nealmcb: have you updated the screen factoids?
<kirkland> changelog at https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/screen-profiles
<nxvl> kirkland: you haven't upload it to the ppa for testing, right?
<nxvl> kirkland: i still have 1.15
<kirkland> nxvl: oh, thanks for the reminded!
<nxvl> \o/
<kirkland> there's a screen-profiles ppa now
<kirkland> so that you don't have to take all of the rest of my ppa-cruft :-)
<mathiaz> kirkland: link?
<kirkland> https://edge.launchpad.net/~screen-profiles/+archive/ppa
<kirkland> includes packages for Intrepid and Hardy
<kirkland> as well as Hardy/Intrepid packages for screen too, which fixes a couple of very minor (annoying) bugs there
<kirkland> i'd like to push those through backports, i think, after Jaunty development slows down
<mathiaz> kirkland: great - anything else to report on this front?
<kirkland> i'm slammed until FF at least, right now
<mathiaz> kirkland: screen in -backports?
<kirkland> mathiaz: screen-profiles in backports
<mathiaz> kirkland: I don't think you can push *new* packages in -backports
<kirkland> mathiaz: oh?
<kirkland> mathiaz: hmm, okay, sorry, then
<mathiaz> kirkland: I'm not 100% sure though
<kirkland> mathiaz: okay, well, now that we have a screen-profiles ppa, i'm not that worried about it
<kirkland> mathiaz: i would like to see if zul could/would include it in the ec2 images?  (that's a separate discussion)
<kirkland> should be easy for the Jaunty ec2 instance
<kirkland> maybe more difficult for Hardy/Intrepid images, if it doesn't exist in the archive
<zul> kirkland: probably for the release after this one
<kirkland> zul: cool
<zul> kirkland: ill talk to you after
<sommer> kirkland: I wrote up some info for the serverguide on screen-profiles, not sure how complete it is though
<kirkland> mathiaz: so i'd just ask for more testing
<kirkland> mathiaz: file bugs, if things aren't working like they should
<kirkland> mathiaz: i'd call it feature complete now
<kirkland> mathiaz: there's nothing else i really plan before FF
<kirkland> mathiaz: but i have some longer term ideas/plans for future versions after Jaunty
<mathiaz> kirkland: right - keep them somewhere in a wiki page
<kirkland> mathiaz: more flexible applet configuration of the status items
<kirkland> mathiaz: that's *really* hard to do though
<kirkland> mathiaz: cool, will do
<kirkland> mathiaz: i'll probably track them as wishlist bugs in Launchpad
<kirkland> mathiaz: i'm done
<mathiaz> sommer: is http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/serverguide/C/index.html up-to-date?
<mathiaz> sommer: ie is it the dev version?
<sommer> mathiaz: nope, I'll ping mdke about it
<mathiaz> sommer: ok
<mathiaz> [ACTION] sommer to ping mdke about keeping doc.ubuntu.com up-to-date
<MootBot> ACTION received:  sommer to ping mdke about keeping doc.ubuntu.com up-to-date
<mathiaz> sommer: that way it would be easier to perform reviews
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Encrypted private/home with filename encryption available
<MootBot> New Topic:  Encrypted private/home with filename encryption available
<mathiaz> kirkland: did you make a call for testing?
<kirkland> mathiaz: hmm, well, no...
<kirkland> mathiaz: so Alpha4 has an encrypt-home option *working* in the installer
<kirkland> mathiaz: in fact, i've reinstalled several of my machines with it now
<kirkland> mathiaz: seems to be working well so far
<mathiaz> kirkland: -server and -alternate?
<kirkland> mathiaz: there's some kernel noise in dmesg that i'm trying to track down
<mathiaz> kirkland: what about -desktop?
<kirkland> mathiaz: the -server and -alternate Alpha4 are slightly broken
<kirkland> mathiaz: encrypt-home works, but encrypted-filenames do not work
<kirkland> mathiaz: but the daily ISO's have this fixed
<kirkland> mathiaz: i've tested the -server and -alternate daily's
<mathiaz> kirkland: ah ok.
<kirkland> mathiaz: the -desktop live CD works well in Alpha4, with encrypted home and encrypted filenames
<kirkland> mathiaz: however ....................................
<kirkland> mathiaz: kees has brought up concerns
<kirkland> mathiaz: and he's recommending that we might pull encrypted-home from the desktop installer
<kirkland> mathiaz: we don't have encrypted swap support yet
<mathiaz> kirkland: but not from -server and -alternate?
<kirkland> mathiaz: right
<mathiaz> kirkland: is encrypted swap still on track for inclusion in jaunty?
<nijaba> kirkland: is the encrypted home working with shares now?
<kirkland> mathiaz: i don't think encrypted swap will be in the installer for Jaunty, shy of a miracle
<kirkland> nijaba: shares = nfs/cifs?
<kirkland> nijaba: if so, no.
<nijaba> kirkland: yep
<nijaba> ok, too bad
<kirkland> mathiaz: basically, there will be a manual step, to convert your swap to encrypted swap
<kirkland> post installation
<mathiaz> kirkland: anything else on this matter?
<kirkland> mathiaz: i don't think we can expect desktop users to take this extra step
<kirkland> mathiaz: and thus, we'll run the risk of leaking their encrypted data in an unencrypted form to swap space
<kirkland> mathiaz: should the user do something like hibernate their system
<kirkland> mathiaz: no more on this matter
<mathiaz> great - let's move on then
<mathiaz> kirkland: thanks for the update
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Update ServerGuide for Jaunty
<MootBot> New Topic:  Update ServerGuide for Jaunty
<mathiaz> sommer: how is it going?
<sommer> mathiaz: getting there
<sommer> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JauntyServerGuide
<mathiaz> sommer: as mentionned above if doc.ubuntu.com could be up-to-date it would help in reviewing the new sections
<sommer> I was wondering if we need information on the new cloud virtualization stuff?
<mathiaz> zul: soren: ^^ ?
<mathiaz> sommer: in the wiki page, what's the difference between Done and Needs Review?
<zul> mathiaz: i think it would be a good idea to put in the ec2 stuff in it
<mathiaz> sommer: Done section don't need to be reviewed?
<sommer> mathiaz: no I need to change that, really it'd be great for everything to be reviewed
<sommer> or as much as possible anyway
<mathiaz> sommer: ok - we have some more time after FF to do documentation review
<sommer> zul: I think there's a wiki page on the ec2?
<zul> sommer: there is
<sommer> mathiaz: yeppers
<mathiaz> [ACTION] sommer to mark all relevant section as Needs review rather then Done
<MootBot> ACTION received:  sommer to mark all relevant section as Needs review rather then Done
<mathiaz> zul: link?
<mathiaz> sommer: hm - well I'm not sure if there should be a section on EC2 in the server guide
<sommer> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/EC2StartersGuide ?
<sommer> mathiaz: because it's proprietary?
<mathiaz> sommer: on the eucalyptus and all the cloud stuff soren is working on make sense
<zul> mathiaz: they use the same tools
<sommer> mathiaz: ya I'll concentrate on that aspect
<mathiaz> sommer: great - thnaks.
<mathiaz> sommer: anything else on the documentation front?
<sommer> mathiaz: don't think so
<mathiaz> great - let's move on
<mathiaz> that's all from last week meeting
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Status of the mail-stack
<MootBot> New Topic:  Status of the mail-stack
<mathiaz> ivoks: ^^
<ivoks> so, i have a solution for almost everything
<ivoks> i've created a patch:
<ivoks> http://www.init.hr/dev/jaunty/ubuntu-mail-server.debdiff
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://www.init.hr/dev/jaunty/ubuntu-mail-server.debdiff
<ivoks> it introduces a new binary package in dovecot - ubuntu-mail-server
<cjwatson> why isn't this a seed-generated thing and done in ubuntu-meta?
<ivoks> since dovecot uses ucf, i can 'steal' /etc/dovecot/dovecot.conf from dovecot-common
<ivoks> cjwatson: mail server?
<cjwatson> yes
<cjwatson> seems pretty bizarre to me to have dovecot.conf not in dovecot-common, and to have ubuntu-mail-server not be a pure metapackage
<cjwatson> violates several expectations
<ivoks> cause i can't overwrite config file with package that's not owner of a config file
<cjwatson> why not just change it in dovecot itself?
<ivoks> cause not everybody uses postfix
<mathiaz> cjwatson: the issue here is that we'd like to change the configuration of dovecot when postfix is installed
<ivoks> and this configuration is tied up with postfix
<cjwatson> I think you should create a separate configuration file rather than eating dovecot.conf, then
<ivoks> if there's no postfix, dovecot won't start
<cjwatson> add a dovecot-postfix.conf and have ubuntu-mail-server start dovecot with that
<cjwatson> you may have managed to get away with it technically, but I think this approach is still a policy violation
<nxvl> there isn't a devecot.d/*.conf stuff?
<ivoks> cjwatson: i was looking how to avoid any policy violation
<ivoks> but maybe i missed something :)
<mathiaz> nxvl: it wouldn't work. the configuration file has to be modified
<cjwatson> .d should, normally, be for when a set of files in a directory are concatenated to form a single configuration file
<ivoks> nxvl: no, not possible
<cjwatson> ivoks: the best way to do so is to use a separate configuration file
<nxvl> mathiaz: oh, so it's not adding directives, but to modify the existent ones, ok make sense
<mathiaz> nxvl: yes
<ivoks> cjwatson: outside dovecot source?
<ivoks> as a meta package
<ivoks> ?
<cjwatson> ivoks: not necessary if you give it a more descriptive name, like "dovecot-postfix"
<cjwatson> then that could sensibly be in the dovecot source itself
<ivoks> hm, but it's more than that...
<ivoks> it's a product, isn't not just dovecot-postfix relation
<nxvl> then dovecot-$product
<mathiaz> ivoks: I think that for now, we're just looking at integrating dovecot and postfix
<cjwatson> I honestly think ubuntu-* should be reserved for pure metapackages (dependencies only), particularly when the * coincides with an existing seed name
<ivoks> still, i'd have to change init script
<mathiaz> ivoks: once that's working we can look into the ubuntu-mail-server task
<ivoks> cjwatson: ok, name is irrelevant
<cjwatson> or a separate init script
<cjwatson> when you find yourself trying to change configuration files of another package, it's an excellent sign that the design is wrong
<ivoks> :)
<ivoks> ok, i'll take another approach then
<mathiaz> ivoks: ok - it seems that sasl integration of postfix and dovecot needs more discussion
<ivoks> i just look at ucf as a perfect tool for this, but ok... :)
<mathiaz> ivoks: what about using dovecot LDA as a default?
<ivoks> mathiaz: everything is included in this diff
<mathiaz> ivoks: right.
<ivoks> maildir, sasl, lda...
<mathiaz> ivoks: what's the default LDA for postfix now? procmail?
<ivoks> default is postfix
<ivoks> postfix delivers mail
<mathiaz> ivoks: ok
<ivoks> ok, back to start...
<lamont> mathiaz: if procmail is unpacked when postfix is configured, then it defaults to using procmail
<lamont> otherwise it just delivers mail
<mathiaz> ivoks: how about dropping a dovecot-postfix.conf file and modify the dovecot init script to use that if it's there and use dovecot.conf if not?
<mathiaz> lamont: could a similar hook be implemented if dovecot lda is there?
<ivoks> mathiaz: well, that's what i do, since this is wrong
<lamont> mathiaz: not that modifies dovecot, no.  unless dovecot provided an api
<ivoks> well, dovecot can provide lda by default
<mathiaz> lamont: in the postinst the following command is called: postconf -e "mailbox_command = /usr/lib/dovecot/deliver"
<ivoks> that doesn't depend on postfix
<ivoks> i'll do what cjwatson suggested
<ivoks> another config, another init script
<mathiaz> ivoks: why another init script?
<ivoks> maybe creating dovecot-common-ums?
<mathiaz> ivoks: I'd just modify the existing dovecot init script to look for /etc/dovecot/dovecot-postfix.conf
<ivoks> mathiaz: right, but then i have to provide new init script in binary package
<ivoks> mathiaz: i can't change dovcot-common's init script
<mathiaz> ivoks: that's ok. we can modify dovecot-common init script
<ivoks> so, why now create additional -common-xyz which would conflict with plain -common
<ivoks> :)
<mathiaz> ivoks: anyway - let's move on
<mathiaz> ivoks: we can discuss that later.
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Power management
<MootBot> New Topic:  Power management
<mathiaz> kirkland: ^^
<kirkland> mathiaz: yessir
<kirkland> mathiaz: okay, 2 things ....
<kirkland> mathiaz: first thing i noticed, installing Jaunty yesterday, cpu frequency scaling was not immediately enabled
<kirkland> mathiaz: i had to install powernowd
<kirkland> mathiaz: i'm curious if we've considered adding this to the server seed before?
<soren> kirkland: We have.
<kirkland> mathiaz: ubuntu desktops install powernowd, and are configured to run with the "ondemand" governor by default
<kirkland> soren: and?
<soren> kirkland: Let me find the link...
<soren> kirkland: I don't think it caused any objections, it just never happened.
<kirkland> soren: ah
<soren> I'll bet if I looked far enough down my todo list it'd be there somewhere.
<kirkland> mathiaz: so i propose adding powernowd to the server seed
<soren> Let me find the link, though.
<kirkland> mathiaz: so i thought i'd bring it up here and see if there are any objections
<kirkland> mathiaz: let me know if there's a better forum for posing that question, though
<mathiaz> kirkland: how big is it?
<soren> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-server/2008-September/002184.html
<mathiaz> kirkland: would that be considered as bloating the default install?
<kirkland> Size: 27414
<kirkland> mathiaz: i'd think not
<kirkland> mathiaz: on the contrary, i'd argue that not having this makes Ubuntu servers rather wasteful on the power consumption front
<kirkland> mathiaz: always running at full blast
<kirkland> mathiaz: http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/main/p/powernowd/
<kirkland> mathiaz: <30KB
<kirkland> mathiaz: i'll chase the dependencies too
<kirkland> mathiaz: there's a dep on "laptop-detect" that may not be necessary
<mathiaz> kirkland: ok - I think it makes sense
<kirkland> mathiaz: cool
<kirkland> mathiaz: second thing here ....
<kirkland> mathiaz: on that fresh jaunty server install, i also tested suspend and hibernate
<kirkland> mathiaz: as well as resume
<kirkland> mathiaz: all of them worked beautifully
<kirkland> mathiaz: i installed pm-utils
<mathiaz> kirkland: great
<kirkland> mathiaz: and used pm-suspend and pm-hibernate
<kirkland> mathiaz: and i was able to wake it up using wakeonlan
<kirkland> mathiaz: i have filed an MIR for wakeonlan package
<kirkland> mathiaz: i couldn't find a WoL package in main
<mathiaz> kirkland: ok.
<mathiaz> kirkland: anything else (we're running out time)
<kirkland> mathiaz: there's one thing you have to do on the server to enable it to be awoken
<mathiaz> kirkland: ?
<kirkland> mathiaz: you have to run this ethtool command
<kirkland> mathiaz: i'm going to try and figure out what that's actually doing
<kirkland> mathiaz: and if that's something we could configure in /etc
<mathiaz> kirkland: ok.
<mathiaz> kirkland: anything else on this subject?
<kirkland> mathiaz: so i'd like anyone to test suspend/hibernate
<kirkland> if possible on their servers
<mathiaz> kirkland: seems like a good candidate for a call for testing blog post
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Agree on next meeting date and time
<MootBot> New Topic:  Agree on next meeting date and time
<mathiaz> next week , same place, same time?
<sommer> +1
<Adri2000> no open discussion? wanted to bring up another topic
<Adri2000> (sorry for not putting it on the agenda)
<mathiaz> Adri2000: we're running out of time
<mathiaz> Adri2000: add it to the agenda and we'll talk about it next week
<mathiaz> see you all next week, same place, same time
<Adri2000> hmm, it's about including a new upstream version, so FF is approaching...
<Adri2000> s/so/and/
<mathiaz> Adri2000: let's talk about that in #ubuntu-server
<Adri2000> ok
<mathiaz> thanks all all
<mathiaz> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 11:02.
<rtg> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 11:02. The chair is rtg.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
 * apw is here
 * cking too
 * manjo here
 * amitk here
<rtg> kernel team meeting time. Pete is out this week, so I'm gonna lead.
 * smb_tp too
<apw> got an adjenda link?
<rtg> agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<smb_tp> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<rtg> [TOPIC] Security & bugfix kernels
<MootBot> New Topic:  Security & bugfix kernels
<rtg> smb_tp: you're on
<smb_tp> Yeah. Not much new
<rtg> no promotions last week?
<smb_tp> The Intrepid -proposed got up and also a respin of the last -proposed for Hardy wth the security updates
<rtg> any brewing issues?
<sconklin> sry I'm late
<smb_tp> Hardy: a somewhat regression for Acer Aspire One
<apw> do we have any other atom hardware to confirm if its atom or system specific?
<smb_tp> Intrepid: just usual catchup with stable and I think a few bugfixes
<smb_tp> Oh yes, for Hardy the intention is to add the vmware patches to fix the tsc in the next upload
<rtg> cool, I know Alok has been waiting patiently
<smb_tp> apw, Good point. I got an CMPC2 hee
<rtg> anything else worth mentioning?
<smb_tp> Beside of me being able to do my own uploads?
<rtg> smb_tp: good point. congrats!
<amitk> \o/
<apw> yay!
<cking> horrah
<lieb> likewise
<smb_tp> yeah. rtg rejoice. less hassle
 * rtg gets some upload relief
<rtg> ok, next topic
<rtg> [TOPIC] Stable update policy change
<MootBot> New Topic:  Stable update policy change
<rtg> any comments about the compromise?
<apw> wanna state the compromise in one line?
<amitk> was it 4 months post-release?
<rtg> correct
<rtg> end of Feb is the deadline
<smb_tp> I would hope to have less stable updatesby that time, so lets see how this turns out
<amitk> we slurp in everything for 4 months and then cherry pick
<rtg> .27 has been real active
<apw> i think thats pretty good idea, mostly the stable churn is worse during the next lreeases -rc1->rc4
<sconklin> seems reasonable to me
<apw> so early adopters get more pain (potential) but those who are more circumspect with upgrades will come in later, when its lower risk
<amitk> apw: good observation!
<cking> potentially lower risk
<smb_tp> agreed. just anote that the regressions we got have been somewhat cornercases and were a good option to join upstream work
<apw> we should likely have it well stated, so that people know when the change occurs in the life of the product so they can can move later
<smb_tp> both of tem are in 2.6.27.14
<smb_tp> err. 15
<rtg> we can announce the end of stable update uploads on various lists
<rtg> ok, if everyone is in agreement, then lets move on.
<rtg> [TOPIC] Archiving the Hardy/Intrepid OEM LPIA trees
<MootBot> New Topic:  Archiving the Hardy/Intrepid OEM LPIA trees
<apw> rtg there probabally should be a wiki of the policy
<rtg> apw: are you volunteering?
<apw> can do, i would just take your email and tart it up
<rtg> ooh, I love the tart part :)
<cking> steady on
<rtg> [ACTION] Andy tarts of the stable update policy change.
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Andy tarts of the stable update policy change.
<rtg> ok, back to LPIA. Any objections?
<apw> which trees are those, the ones which are ubuntu-*-lpia in our git?
<sconklin> no, aside from some ABI cleanup, we have everything we need in the tree I think
<rtg> sconklin: ?
<cking> ..and where will they be archived too
<sconklin> I meant everything in our repos
<rtg> cking: there is an archive directory under /src/kern...
<rtg> apw pointed out that some of the trees may have references
<rtg> object references, that is
<sconklin> If we can take the old -mobile-lpia repos and make them read only that would be adequate, move them to the archive directory
 * apw will find out how to get rid of alternates if they exist where we do not want them
<rtg> sconklin: ok, I'll work with IS to get ownership and write rights changed
<cking> sconklin: we need iron out the minor issues with the hardy lpia lrm when tony is back tomorrow
<rtg> cking: BCM update?
<sconklin> cking: ok, but do it early, I'm going to be out tomorrow afternoon traveling.
<rtg> is that what the minor issue is?
<cking> rtg: and possibly one or two other niggles
<rtg> sconklin: its not a big yank. we can archive LPIA anytime
<sconklin> it doesn't matter much since future development will be on Jaunty
<rtg> on a related topic
<rtg> [TOPIC] Moving Jaunty LPIA into distro kernel
<MootBot> New Topic:  Moving Jaunty LPIA into distro kernel
<rtg> I'm starting that effort today.
<cjwatson> yay
<rtg> mucho packaging changes.
<apw> we will be popular if we can get it to be the same tree, with the same abi etc
<rtg> yeah, hopefully the ABI stuff won't come back to haunt us :)
<amitk> apw: same abi shouldn't be a problem per se, lpia is laggin
<rtg> I'll need to get some testing done on it, but its mostly just grunt work
<rtg> anything else?
<amitk> rtg: but didn't we say that we merge back _until_ OEM schedules require it to be forked again?
<apw> rtg while you are there rip out the retag-* scripts and bin them
<rtg> amitk: correct. I think its highly likely to happen.
<rtg> apw: done
<rtg> or rather, will do
<rtg> I think we'll fork for ARM at some point as well
<apw> just make sure we have a copy of the rebase malarky in case we need it for the forks
<rtg> yep.
<amitk> email to the list
<amitk> email it
<cking> fork == branch?
<rtg> amitk: re: ?
<rtg> cking: topic branch
<apw> i'd say just leave it in the tree, ie add it to the main tree
<apw> as an example of how, ports is now using it
<rtg> ok, next topic
<rtg> [TOPIC] Jaunty Status
<MootBot> New Topic:  Jaunty Status
<rtg> apw: how are you feeling about the bug load for Jaunty?
<apw> most of our bug load has been intrepid still, though i am hearing about panics and problems in the halls
<apw> it feels like people are starting to switch those with good hearts
<rtg> with the cessation of stable updates in Intrepid, its time we turn our attention to Jaunty
<apw> sound is still a mess, but thats mostly userspace not us
<ogasawara> I'm seeing a few regressions come in for Intrepid - bug 326891, bug 322886, bug 323256
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 326891 in linux "2.6.27.11 kernel breaks r8169 support for rtl8102e" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/326891
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 322886 in linux "Notebook crashes after suspend with new Kernel 2.6.27-11-generic" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/322886
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 323256 in linux "2.6.27-11 Intel Ethernet e100e Remains active after shutdown" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/323256
<rtg> ogregressions from the prior ABI?
<rtg> ogasawara: ^^
<ogasawara> rtg: yes
<rtg> at any rate, I'll make sure smb_tp focuses on those.
<apw> ogasawara, do we mark those differently? and should we mark those specially in your stuff
<rtg> if he hasn't already
<smb_tp> noted I will do
<ogasawara> apw: I tag them regression-update and I'm going to start highlighting them in my buglist
<apw> cool
<rtg> ogasawara: do you think they were the result of a stable update patch?
<ogasawara> rtg: my hunch is yes, but have not dug into which specific patch
<rtg> ok, lets make sure this doesn't escape into the wild (or -updates as it were)
<amitk> will kerneloops make it in before feature freeze?
<rtg> yep.
<rtg> lieb is working to get that in place.
<lieb> paperwork etc. today
<rtg> Is everyone aware what feature freeze means?
<manjo> no
<rtg> We'll start implementing an SRU style patch process in advance of that being enforced by the SREU team.
<rtg> SRU team, even
<apw> so an increase in acks needed to apply etc
<rtg> I want to approach release with a stable kernel.
<rtg> apw: correct. we start to look real hard at what we're doing
<rtg> I'd like to have very few substantive changes for a month before release
<rtg> ok, lets move on.
<rtg> [TOPIC] Suspend/Resume
<MootBot> New Topic:  Suspend/Resume
<rtg> do we have results posted from the sprint testing?
<apw> suspend resume testing has been good, as per the sprint
<ogasawara> rtg: we do, but it's on the internal wiki
<rtg> are there plans to open up the call for testing to a wider audience?
<ogasawara> rtg: I believe the plan is to do so around Beta
<apw> that should occur for beta1
<rtg> couple of weeks from now, right?
<ogasawara> rtg: correct, I believe March 26 is Beta
<apw> very little feedback from the internal call, but i suspect that that is more about the fact people had done testing at the sprint
<apw> the test script itself got a real boost in the process, and should be a better test vehicle for the beta test
<rtg> other then proprietary driver problems, were there any surprises?
<amitk> nv
<rtg> the 2D driver ?
<apw> that there was only one machien which exhibited actual kernel resume failures was staggeringly good
<apw> nv going into a flat spin on vt switch was unepected
<sconklin> That was a good catch
<rtg> likely the infamous lieb race condition.
 * cking notes that one single suspend resume tests is fairly lightweight testing
<lieb> ;)
<rtg> cking: no body has time for 300 s/r cycles :)
<apw> cking, agreed, i had hoped to get more testing from people from leanns call
<apw> that test takes of the order of 30 mins total
<pgraner> rtg: cjwatson found a keyboard hang that happens randomly, davidm has the same hang as well
<pgraner> rtg: on suspend/resume
<amitk> apw: 10 cycles in your script?
<apw> pgraner, yes i had forgotten that one
<apw> amitk, the full run is about 35 overall
<ogasawara> amitk: I think the new script has 60 cycles
<sconklin> I thought it was 30 - 60 seconds down to 2 in 2 second steps
<cjwatson> pgraner: it's an X bug, though
<apw> so all but one has been x or graphics
<pgraner> cjwatson: cool... nice to know
<rtg> cjwatson: punted to Bryce ?
<apw> lieb, yours is the one we don't know about
<apw> and we could do with getting more information on
<lieb> yea. poor me.  there is a debubgging op ther
<rtg> ok, done with s/r ?
<apw> yep
<rtg> [TOPIC] Vanilla Kernel Builds
<MootBot> New Topic:  Vanilla Kernel Builds
<rtg> apw has done a  great job of getting these in order.
<apw> ok those should be ready for mainstreaming ... ie ready to be
<apw> placed under the kernel-team user on kernel.u.c
<amitk> cheers apw!
<apw> rtg has volunteered to test as the first victim, to catch non-apw breaks it
<rtg> I'll have time to play with it while I'm waiting on LPIA builds
<apw> if it all works well then we should be able to get those who upload a stable update
<rtg> we'll have a suite of kernels from Dapper through tip-of-Linus tree
<apw> to also hit the script to get a mainline equivalent.  its a single mainline-build v2.6.27.16 job
<cjwatson> the evdev driver decides that the keyboard device has subtly changed and so discards it
<amitk> what will be the publishing mechanism (website?) for the .debs
<amitk> ?
<apw> for the first cut yes, on the kernel.u.c kernel user page
<rtg> kernel.ubuntu.com/~kernel-team/...
<apw> we have been asked to work out how to get them into a PPA and i have that on my todo
<apw> we may be able to offer at least the lastest of each that way, .27, .28 etc
<rtg> apw: I thought we decided 'no' on that?
<apw> its not possible to have them all in there, we have high level pressure to try at least
<apw> so we can say why its not possible.
<apw> if we can get just the tips in there for the less able users to test with i think the requirements would be met
<rtg> hmm, I thought if folks couldn't figure it out with some minimal directions, then they shouldn't be running these kernels.
<apw> my plan was to report on whether its possible next week
<rtg> ok, we can knock that topic around later in the week.
<rtg> [TOPIC] Announce and publish the intended kernel version for Jaunty release
<MootBot> New Topic:  Announce and publish the intended kernel version for Jaunty release
<apw> rtg i tend to agree.  the utility is lower, but i think we need a conherient no if not we chose
<rtg> is there any question in anyone's mind about this?
<sconklin> no
<rtg> its going to be 2.6.28, period.
<rtg> [TOPIC] Open discussion
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open discussion
<rtg> anyone have general concerns?
<apw> is everything we are aiming for jaunty, feature wise, been status checked
<rtg> CRDA is still in progress
<apw> just to be sure i am doing everything i am meant to be doing before FF
<rtg> I should review some Blueprints and make sure we aren't missing anything
<apw> sounds like an offline thing
<rtg> yep
<rtg> looks like thats it. next week, same time, same bat channel.
<rtg> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 11:46.
<amitk> bye all
<sconklin> by
<sconklin> or bye
<cjwatson> rtg: I filed a bug, haven't particularly lit a fire under anyone yet
<rtg> cjwatson: being an X bug, its in Bryce court, right?
<cjwatson> rtg: bug 327175
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 327175 in xorg-server "sometimes loses input devices on suspend/resume" [Unknown,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/327175
<cjwatson> rtg: yes
<rtg> cjwatson: ok, thanks
#ubuntu-meeting 2009-02-11
<jro> a
<cjwatson> good afternoon
<Keybuk> cjwatson: hey
<mvo> hello
<liw> hi
<james_w> hello
<cjwatson> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 10:02. The chair is cjwatson.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<cjwatson> doko said he was unlikely to be able to make it
<doko> back and still living =)
<cjwatson> oh good
<liw> TheMuso is probably asleep; we discussed the possiblity of a meeting and came to the conclusion there wouldn't be one
<cjwatson> ah, I was too late, sorry
<cjwatson> so missing evand and vorlon (presumably vorlon is asleep too if he was in that conversation)
 * cjwatson prods Evan elsewhere
<liw> no, just me and TheMuso
<slangasek> hmm, didn't I see an email from robbiew saying the meeting was cancelled?
<liw> slangasek, I got one from Google Calendar
<evand> Sorry, lost track of time.
<cjwatson> he cancelled it on the calendar, but I sent out a separate mail
<liw> cjwatson > Google Calendar
<cjwatson> it seems as though we ought to have a FF round-up in time to be able to do something about it ...
<slangasek> hmm, oh
<Keybuk> cjwatson: but you didn't readd it to the calendar, so those people with alarms set wouldn't be alerted ;)
<cjwatson> I blame the lack of telepathic calendars
<cjwatson> ok, so in my mail I asked for people to have a quick summary of what they were doing FF-wise that was potentially in trouble
<cjwatson> how about I start
<cjwatson> most of oem-config-server is done, and the parts that remain should be in time for FF (most significantly, a tasksel component)
<cjwatson> server-pre-installation involves a lot of little bits, some of which have been agreed to be relatively unimportant and probably won't make it; the thing I'm pushing on hardest is support for manual package selection, on which I've made progress but haven't quite managed to get it to work, so at some risk
<cjwatson> I'm working on LVM by default for the server at the moment, which should be in time
<cjwatson> otherwise I may be able to help other folks out a bit
<cjwatson> [end]
<cjwatson> evand: how about you?
<evand> the slideshow work has been deferred as Julian's team does not have the resources for it this cycle, I'm currently in the middle of the oem ID work, and should have that done tonight or tomorrow, and there's some little bits left on the ubiquity work that I'll be able to knock off in the few days we have left
<cjwatson> ok, that was quick :)
<cjwatson> james_w: yours mostly aren't FF-critical, but ...?
<james_w> I like to try and have bzr-builddeb contain the code that is doing the lifting on package-import.ubuntu.com, but that is not required
<james_w> there probably aren't features needed to be added to get Debian branches available, so that should be safe
<james_w> I do want to try and tackle a couple of usability things, but I'm not sure what the solution is, so they may have to wait until next cycle
<cjwatson> usability in bzr-builddeb, or elsewhere?
<james_w> the rest of the work is de-synced from FF I believe
<james_w> (though I want to get the latest launchpadlib snapshot in, but that's not too much work)
<james_w> cjwatson: yes, usability in bzr-builddeb
<james_w> for instance making it easy to supply "-v" when building a merge from Debian
<cjwatson> ah, yes
<cjwatson> (isn't that just a bug? ;-) )
<james_w> that's all from me I think
<cjwatson> ok
<cjwatson> liw:
<liw> I need some help from mvo to merge Computer Janitor and update-manager code bases, and someone to sponsor uploads, but that should be it
<liw> I should be able to get all necessary changes in (just) in time for FF, unless I break my back further
<mvo> yeah, sorry for that, I was not as helpful as I should be
<liw> (end)
<liw> mvo, you'll get more mail tonight :)
<cjwatson> breaking backs considered a bad idea for making FF ...
<cjwatson> and now I'm reminded that I've been meaning to try out doko's PPA
<cjwatson> doko:
<doko> cjwatson: for python?
<cjwatson> yep
<cjwatson> want to play with 2.6 :)
<mvo> me too!
<mvo> :)
<doko> well, upload of python2.6 will follow later today. will depreacate 2.4, so that the packages that we will rebuild don't increase in size
<doko> 2.5 still the default, until we rebuilt the extension modules for 2.5 and 2.6.
<doko> then switch to 2.6, before feature freeze
<cjwatson> I assume that people maintaining python applications should start playing with 2.6 ASAP
<doko> yes, but please let's rebuild the extensions first. should be done by the weekend
<cjwatson> ok, weekend sounds fine by me - do you have time for the helper package changes discussed at the sprint before FF?
<slangasek> I'm a bit worried that we're talking about switching the python default right before feature freeze when AFAICS python2.6 isn't even in the archive yet
<slangasek> has testing been done in PPA of rebuilding the extensions, to make sure that works, or are we going to have a pile of bugs to sort through right at FF?
<cjwatson> my concern is sort of inverse, that unless we switch in this release we're going to have a harder time getting to python3
<doko> I had done some rebuilds using 2.6. there are a few uploads needed to cope with new keywords, like 'with'. but it's not as invasive as the switch from 2.4 to 2.5
<slangasek> cjwatson: I concede to the bigger picture, then
<slangasek> but the sooner python2.6 is in, the happier I'll be
<cjwatson> (python3 is still going to be a hugely complex switch of course, but I'd like to be able to go through and lint things with -3)
<cjwatson> ok, we should continue
<cjwatson> mvo:
<mvo> partner-repositories> policy draft almost ready and will go out to ubuntu-devel for discussion
<mvo> (but should not really be a FF item)
<mvo> jaunty-backup> not a lot that I have done, but I will sponsor deja-dup into universe, its quite nice
<mvo> apturl-add-repo> done, in the archive
<mvo> jaunty-codec-install> done and in the archive, may need a legal warning dialog in the same spirit as the old one (asked amanda about this)
<mvo> (and seeded)
<mvo> UX team wishes for update-manager, update-notifier> hopefully make it, bits are done, others are not
<mvo> (end)
<cjwatson> UX == DX?
<mvo> yeah, whatever todays name is ;)
<ogra> update-effects ? :)
<cjwatson> I get confused
<mvo> they want eg. update-manager to start automatically when updates are available
<mvo> and not display notification bubbles/icons
<Keybuk> UX is Julian's team, DX is David Barth's team?
<mvo> its not a big amount of work, but still stuff
<liw> mvo, ugh
<cjwatson> hmm, interesting, I'd have to see the implementation of that ...
<cjwatson> I assume if you close it it gets out of the way
<liw> I saw that in the new laptop in our house yesterday. With Windows. It ruined the movie.
<mvo> liw: haha
<mvo> I'm not convinced about it myself, but it will start unfocused so at least it does not jump in peoples faces
 * liw mumbles something about every interruption, even unfocused ones, costing fifteen minutes of time when in hack mode...
 * liw stops mumbling, this being off-topci
<mvo> liw: there will be a gconf key to get back the old behaviour
<cjwatson> I think it's a valid objection, but maybe it would be better if mvo could supply a UX/DX/whatever contact to have the conversation with
<mvo> mpt would be the person to talk to
<cjwatson> Keybuk:
<Keybuk> before FF I'd like to get upstream updates for udev, module-init-tools and util-linux-ng in
<Keybuk> obviously these all depend on upstream ;)
<Keybuk> also would like to land the hwclock changes and the console changes (which still need testing)
<cjwatson> happy to help with those if you have prototype work, since my system seems to have stopped crashing upon switching to console
<slangasek> the fix to make pm-utils not call hwclock is in, thanks to james_w - suspend/resume is a fair tick faster now :)
<Keybuk> it's not a long enough job to need help
<cjwatson> ok
<cjwatson> I confess to the sin of offering help rather than Just Doing It
<cjwatson> slangasek:
<slangasek> good progress on hotkeys, I think everything that counts as "feature" work will be done on schedule - with a fair number of bug fixes we can follow up on after
<slangasek> the grub2 spec is well behind where it ought to be; I'm certainly going to try to make up the difference this week and next, but that could probably use some help, particularly on the installer side - though part of the problem is that I don't have the spec itself ready for review, so I need to get that done today/tomorrow :(
<slangasek> (that's also a low-priority spec, so if it doesn't make it, that's unfortunate but not the end of the world)
<slangasek> the copyright format spec isn't FF material
<cjwatson> I can offer whatever help is needed on the installer side (of course grub-installer *should* already support grub2, it's just a switch to flip)
<slangasek> and there's work to be done on the power management cleanup spec as well - hopefully I'll get a chance to dive into that this week too
<cjwatson> I agree that copyright format isn't FF material but would like to see it sooner rather than later, since other parts of Canonical are on our backs about that :-/
<slangasek> indeed
<cjwatson> the hotkeys stuff has been looking great, I can almost understand it now ;-)
 * slangasek grins
<slangasek> I think there'll probably be an update to Samba 3.3 before FF; I need to discuss this with the server team though, but it does look like Debian unstable will move to the new upstream version soon
<slangasek> that's it for me, I think
<cjwatson> perhaps relevantly, debian-devel-announce suggests that lenny will release on Saturday
<cjwatson> so for a small number of packages that may be useful
<slangasek> yep - that should restore a bit of balance to unstable :)
<cjwatson> making it live up to its name? :)
<cjwatson> that's all from me, anyway - AOB?
<slangasek> not from this quarter :)
<cjwatson> guess not, thanks all and I'll let you get back to work :)
<cjwatson> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:52.
<slangasek> thanks!
<mvo> thanks
<evand> thanks!
<liw> thanks
<davmor2> Hi all :)
<pedro_> hey hey hey
<bdmurray> howdy
 * ara waves
 * charlie-tca waves
<heno> hey all!
<schwuk> hi heno
<jcozens> hi.
<sbeattie> hey
<pedro_> hey charlie-tca, jcozens
<heno> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 11:01. The chair is heno.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<heno> welcome back everyone :)
<heno> agenda as usual: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Meetings
<heno> * UbuntuBugDay resume
<heno> pedro_: ?
<pedro_> Last week we ran the update-manager hug day  -> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugDay/20090205
<pedro_> Martin Mai (MrKanister on IRC) helped us with the organization since we were sprinting at Berlin so if you see him online give him a big hug
<pedro_> the Hug Day hero was the awesome Michele Mangili (mangili on IRC) if you look to the page you'll see what i'm talking about
<heno> indeed
<pedro_> next hug day (tomorrow) is going to be based on the bugs without a package https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugDay/20090212
<pedro_> there's already people working on them ;-) so feel free to join us at any time
<heno> mangilimic is already out in front :)
<bdmurray> pedro_: I'd like to put the no package bugs w/ attachments in the More Bugs section, alright?
<heno> thanks pedro (and mangilimic!)
<heno> [TOPIC] hugday-tools call for testing
<MootBot> New Topic:  hugday-tools call for testing
<pedro_> bdmurray: yes that's totally ok, feel free to add them
<ara> that was a topic by thekorn, but he doesn't seem around
<ara> but it is kind of related with ubuntu-qa-tools that I added, I could talk about it
<heno> anyone know the LP URL or so?
<pedro_> ah hugday-tools right, thekorn rewritten the hugday-tools in order to work with the new wiki format
<pedro_> he was asking for testing, so tomorrow is the perfect day to test the tool *cof* *cof*
<pedro_> I've added some documentation at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugDay/Tools
<heno> great, thanks
<pedro_> but it needs to be updated since it's now included on the ubuntu-qa-tools
<pedro_> i'll do that after the meeting
<heno> so let's jump to
<heno> [TOPIC] New ubuntu-qa-tools package
<MootBot> New Topic:  New ubuntu-qa-tools package
<ara> the project in lp ubuntu-qa-tools is now packaged and should be available in Jaunty anytime soon
<pedro_> \o/ !
<davmor2> Yay :)
<ara> it was approved by the sponsors and it is awating in the queue
<bdmurray> sweet!
<ara> it will also include the new hugday tool by thekorn
<charlie-tca> tools are in the repository already
<heno> those who are attending other team meetings might mention it and ask if they use tools that might fit in there
<davmor2> ara: looks to be in with the latest updates :)
<maco> ara: what's the hugday tool?
<maco> er oh that nevermind
<charlie-tca> Read-me for hugday tool is /usr/share/doc/hugday-tool
<ara> please, report any bugs in the ubuntu-qa-tools package in launchpad
<heno> thanks ara!
<heno> [TOPIC] GlobalBugJam reminder
<MootBot> New Topic:  GlobalBugJam reminder
<heno> I don't see jorge online
<heno> anyway here is more info: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GlobalBugJam
<heno> I'll be heading to the London one
<heno> who else is going to an event?
<davmor2> I might be going to the birmingham one
<jcastro> I am here sorry, was on a call
<maco> charlie-tca: even after installing, that file doesn't exist, just for the record
<pedro_> I'll be participating with the guys at Chile and i'll be online as well helping on #ubuntu-bugs
<heno> jcastro: sorry, my bad
<jcastro> I'll be participating in detroit and online
<maco> Washington, DC, we have one on Saturday
<maco> (the 21st)
<pedro_> there's a couple of sessions about how to run a bug jam so if you're interested :
<jcastro> we're up to ~26 teams signed up, if we can hit 30 teams that would be great
<pedro_> February 13  at 1200 UTC with dholbach as the speaker
<pedro_> and February 14 at 0000 UTC with jcastro
<jcastro> yeah, those are the typical training sessions
<pedro_> the sessions are taking place in #ubuntu-classroom
<heno> Great, looking forward to the GBJ :)
<heno> [TOPIC] New GNOME desktop testing team
<MootBot> New Topic:  New GNOME desktop testing team
<ara> A new GNOME team was created a couple of days ago. It is focused on automated testing for the desktop
<ara> http://live.gnome.org/DesktopTesting
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://live.gnome.org/DesktopTesting
<ara> A new SVN module is set up with the ubuntu-desktop-testing project, but without things specifically for Ubuntu (in this case called gnome-desktop-testing)
<ara> there is also a mailing list: http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-testing-list
<ara> please, join the mailing list if you're interested in making gnome a better desktop for linux (and ubuntu)
<maco> does KDE have a corrolary?
<heno> a nice place to announce LDTP 1.5 :)
<heno> maco: KDE is still a bit lacking in a11y infrastructure
<heno> which is what we use for automated testing
<maco> LDTP?
<ara> maco: I am afraid no, the at-spi layer (the accessiblity layer) will move to dbus any time soon (?) and then it would work
<heno> maco: http://mail.gnome.org/archives/desktop-testing-list/2009-February/msg00002.html
<ara> LDTP is the testing framework that we are using in the ubuntu-desktop-testing project.  LDTP 1.5. was released a couple of days ago.
<ara> I packaged it for Ubuntu (to avoid debian version not reaching feature freeze) and it is now fully available in Jaunty
<heno> ara: is there a screecast that explains test automation?
<ara> heno: there isn't
<ara> heno: shall I add that to my todo list?
<heno> I think there are some AI2 and accerciser ones, but not pure LDTP
<maco> er...didnt mean to re-paste that
<heno> ara: for a start you could request one from the screecast team
<maco> oh i didnt. i scrolled. sorry
<heno> (though realistically it might turn out better and sooner if you do it)
<davmor2> just pick on popey :)
<heno> right, I'll meet him next week
<heno> ara: can you post a request on the screen cast team page?
<ara> sure
<heno> then I'll check with popey
<heno> [TOPIC] Possible issues with menu systems in testcases - davmor2
<MootBot> New Topic:  Possible issues with menu systems in testcases - davmor2
<davmor2> Right so with the wiki migration we've hit an issue involving the differing menu systems in the *buntu family.  Because none of them are the same you can't tell people to click on xmenu->ymenu->app to start an app
<maco> er, the XDG stuff is generally the same
<davmor2> So although OO.o is in Ubuntu, Kubuntu and netbook remix to access it they all use slightly different methods
<davmor2> mid uses next to no menus at all
<ara> would be includes and meta information enough?
<ara> like #common- #ubuntu-
<maco> in kde i open the kmenu, click applications, click office, and pick one. in gnome i open the applications menu, click office, and pick one
<heno> I'm weary of making the wiki mark-up too complex
<heno> we'll always run into quirks that we need to account for
<heno> can we write a page for each of Kubuntu, UNR etc to explain the differences in that flavour
<maco> and if you use the older gnome menu instead of the gnome menu bar, its exactly the same as using the kmenu
<maco> (but not as pretty)
<heno> one of the early 'test cases' for a Kubuntu could the be 'read this page'
<maco> actually, gnome's old menu is the same as xfce's menu is the same as the old kmenu
<davmor2> maco: but the differences need to be obvious to the read who is following the instructions so the difference become a pain in the arse
<maco> davmor2: the names of the sections do not change from desktop to desktop
<maco> davmor2: the only difference is whether you need to open the menu before you go to Applications or not
<davmor2> maco: mid has no menu
<maco> that can be fixed with "go to your main menu and click applications..."
<maco> davmor2: fair enough. but for the other 3 they're the same
<davmor2> heno: that's possible
<heno> davmor2: ok, let's talk this through on the call tomorrow
<davmor2> okay :)
<heno> [TOPIC] regression review - sbeattie
<MootBot> New Topic:  regression review - sbeattie
<sbeattie> A few things:
<sbeattie> I updated the page at http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/regression/regression_tracker.html to use some of the lp css/js goo, so the tables are all sortable now.
<pedro_> nice!
<ogasawara> Oooo, pretty
<sbeattie> the regression-potential bugs need a little bit of love
<davmor2> very pretty
<ara> neat!
<sbeattie> yeah, the layout's a bit wonky still, but it's an improvement.
<heno> nice :)
<sbeattie> ogasawara: is https://edge.bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/327431 on your radar? Looks like there may have been a regression in the last hardy update re wpa/hidden ssid/iwl3945.
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 327431 in linux "iwl3945 cannot connect to hidden ssid WPA enterprise with Hardy 2.6.24-23 - Regression" [Undecided,New]
<sbeattie> oh, I also added the assignee to that page so we could see if a bug's already on someone's radar.
<ogasawara> sbeattie: thanks, hadn't seen it yet
<ogasawara> sbeattie: I raised a couple regression at the kernel team meeting yesterday
<sbeattie> yeah, I read scrollback, but I didn't see that particular issue mentioned.
<sbeattie> IIRC, we'd agreed we'd start assigning regression bugs to the teams to get them on their radar, is that correct?
<heno> sbeattie: right
<heno> the correct link is https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/327431 btw
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 327431 in linux "iwl3945 cannot connect to hidden ssid WPA enterprise with Hardy 2.6.24-23 - Regression" [Undecided,New]
<heno> both seem to work for the bot but not FF (?)
<sbeattie> heno: yeah, that was a manual fixup tyop on my part.
<sbeattie> I'll walk through and assign bugs later today, may need some help figuring out which teams to assign to.
<sbeattie> (unless someone else would like to take that task)
<heno> sbeattie: ok, please set the importance and state of these too
<sbeattie> okay.
<heno> bugs we touch should have those set
<heno> thanks
<heno> let's do a lightning round table
 * heno starts
<heno> I spent the past 4 days in London at the management sprint.
<heno> Highlight is that the other engineering team leads committed to use the team-assignment lists to track their bugs.
<heno> We will aim to eventually move all Triaged bugs to those lists or to flag them as not a resource priority for Canonical.
<heno> [done]
<heno> let's each prepare a few round table points for these meetings
<heno> we'd esp. like to hear from non-Canonical folks!
<heno> anyone wish to add something at 0-minutes notice? ;)
<sbeattie> heno: a couple of SRU items:
<sbeattie> first, thanks to Rolf Leggewie (r0lf on launchpad) for doing a bunch of verifications, it's very much appreciated!
<sbeattie> second: It'd be great if people with a Samsung NC10 Netbook, Dell Latitude D810 laptop, or the HSUPA modem found in Acer Aspire One could test the hal-info update in hardy-proposed.
<sbeattie> [end]
<heno> rock r0lf!
<heno> davmor2: do you have the Acer Aspire One?
<davmor2> Yeap
<ogasawara> I want to give a shout out to michele mangili who's done an amazing job helping close out kernel bugs
<heno> sbeattie: can you walk davmor2 thought testing that SRU?
<sbeattie> heh, sure. :-)
<heno> any other topics?
<maco> can i point out that if any of you have authored patches for ubuntu, its a good idea to check with upstream to see if they want them too?
<heno> that's esp. true one bugs with upstream tasks
<heno> jcastro: do we have guidelines on doing that?
<heno> I think we often leave it to the next sync
<heno> which may not be so useful for upstream
<maco> i can say it works much better to send the patch to a -devel mailing list than to set it on a bugtracker
<heno> maco: what upstreams do you have most experience with?
<heno> (preferences often vary)
<maco> heno: gnome and alsa. with gnome i've pinged maintainers on IRC to tell them "there's a patch here" but with alsa i cant find anyone on irc so the mailing list (which requires subscription) is what i used after waiting about 2 months of it being ignored on the bugtracker
<stgraber> hello
<heno> perhaps we should make it part of the patch sponsorship process?
<maco> i think "new bug with patch" and "new bug" dont register any differently in inboxes, but a "live" notification of a patch from a human (not a bugtracker bot relaying things) helps speed things along
<maco> which is why jcastro wants us to get involved with communicating with upstream, right?
<heno> indeed
<heno> speaking of Gnome upstream :)
<heno> jcastro: can you speak with dhobach about whether we can fit upstreaming into the patch sponsorship process?
<heno> any other topics?
<heno> (briefly)
<james_w> it's normally discussed as part of sponsorship
<heno> so it's the non-sponsored patches that are slower to get upstream?
<heno> let's wrap up
<bdmurray> Spread the word about http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/needs-packaging/needs-packaging-popularity.html
<heno> now with new bug-hotness hotness!
<heno> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 12:06.
<davmor2> bye
#ubuntu-meeting 2009-02-12
<lool> oy
<lool> persia: ?
<persia> heh.
<persia> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 06:02. The chair is persia.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<persia> So, welcome to the Mobile Team meeting
<persia> Agenda is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2009/20090212
 * ogra meeps
<lool> StevenK: Around?
<StevenK> I might be
<davidm> I'm here
<persia> First up: action items from the last meeting
<davidm> thanks persa
<persia> [topic] persia to get initial results from mobile-setup-wizard (co)
<MootBot> New Topic:  persia to get initial results from mobile-setup-wizard (co)
<davidm> s/persa/persia/
<persia> Well, it runs, but we probably have to tune some things.  I need to file some bugs about this, and update the spec.
<persia> [action] persia to file bugs to fix mobile-setup-wizard issues
<MootBot> ACTION received:  persia to file bugs to fix mobile-setup-wizard issues
<ogra> no NCommander ?
<persia> NCommander seems missing, so we'll carry those over
<persia> [topic] persia to request conclusions from application research delegates for mobile-applications (co)
<MootBot> New Topic:  persia to request conclusions from application research delegates for mobile-applications (co)
<persia> So, I poked you each individually, and I've not seen any updates.  Given that we're a week before FF, I'm convinced nobody is testing anything.
<persia> Did anyone test their apps?
<lool> I wasn't poked, but I didn't have any update
<lool> I didn't take anytime to test anything indeed
 * ogra was more busy researching the d-i breakages on nslu2 which has higher prio for me atm
<ogra> so i didnt do any research either
<persia> So, shall we defer the mobile applications review until jaunty+1 ?
<davidm> Yes
<ogra> well, at least to post FF
<persia> OK.
<persia> [topic] davidm to target mid-screen-rotation for A5
<MootBot> New Topic:  davidm to target mid-screen-rotation for A5
<ogra> FF is somewhat threatening
<lool> Yes
<ogra> that was marked obsolete
<persia> What replaces it?
<davidm> Yes, it's priority is very very low
<ogra> though i think we could nearly go with what is in gnome atm
<lool> davidm: You have updated a bunch of specs, how did you decide to obsolete some?
<ogra> the new gnome rotation applet is pretty neat and would work with small modifications in MID
<davidm> Based on the hardware platform is changing next cycle and it makes no sense to address a platform that will disapear
<davidm> ogra, if you have time great but it's priority is low low
<ogra> well, MID is a desktop flavour
<ogra> not really related to HW on the top level
<persia> MID ought be hardware independent, really.
<ogra> but i agree we should not care to much this round
<lool> I think davidm might be hinting that we're targetting netbooks before MIDs this cycle
<ogra> right
<davidm> Yes, netbooks critical to address, MID much less so.
<lool> davidm: perhaps you should update https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Roadmap to not list the specs you obsoleted?
<persia> Or superceded.
<davidm> And with acceleromitors coming out very cheap next cycle an on-screen applet is even lower in priority
<davidm> lool, will do
<persia> [action] davidm to update roadmap to reflect specs targeted for jaunty
<MootBot> ACTION received:  davidm to update roadmap to reflect specs targeted for jaunty
<persia> OK.  Moving on...
<persia> [topic] davidm to explore eee PC WiFi with pgraner this week
<MootBot> New Topic:  davidm to explore eee PC WiFi with pgraner this week
<davidm> I've done so,  the eee PC that I have and it seems most eeePC's have is ATH5K
<davidm> it's beeing looked at
<persia> Great.
<ogra> right, only the really new ones have the realtek
<lool> davidm: It should wokr OOB in jaunty
<davidm> My eee PC works but loses it's mind every once in a while
<persia> Next up is Roadmap.  I'll preview and skip those that are obsolete or superseded
<lool> davidm: And it should work with the backports-module package in intrepid, or with the proprietary module in plain intrepid (except it wont suspend/resume properly)
<davidm> lool, agreed, it's a top priority for kernel team
<lool> davidm: I mean, I'm saying this should be the case TTBOMK
<lool> +already
<lool> See lp #275692
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 275692 in linux-backports-modules-2.6.27 "ath_pci must be reloaded after resume" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/275692
<ogra> yes, we tested it in intrepid on the Q1 ... but there might be other chipsets in the eee
<lool> I tested the hotkeys under UNR myself during FOSDEM, and all were working except the sleep one
<lool> ogra: I tested on an eeepc
<ogra> i thik slangasek is on that
<ogra> oh, you had an eee in intrepid ?
<ogra> i didnt know that
<lool> Yes, at FOSDEM
<ogra> ah
<lool> I don't have one, just grabbed the one on the Ubuntu stand
<lool> Anyway, topic closed
<ogra> i was thinking during develpment
<persia> So, moving on...
<persia> [topic] ogra: offline-installer
<MootBot> New Topic:  ogra: offline-installer
<ogra> started hacking on a script, but not much progress due to d-i oddities with the slug
<ogra> i hope to have something uploadable on the weekend
<persia> [topic] StevenK: unr-handling-jaunty
<MootBot> New Topic:  StevenK: unr-handling-jaunty
<ogra> though i dont know how important the spec still is
<ogra> we have no kernels that could be used at all
<persia> It's still "Approved"
<StevenK> Hmmm?
<ogra> and the slug wont run a desktop session
<ogra> davidm, ^^^?
<StevenK> Is it Good Progress or something else?
<persia> Err.  untopic, since this seems to require discussion.
<ogra> right
<persia> [topic] ogra: offline-installer
<MootBot> New Topic:  ogra: offline-installer
<ogra> i'm not sure what to build here without having any arm kernels
<ogra> whoops, sotty i mixed the spec with selection-of-arm-images
<ogra> *sorry even
<persia> OK.  Then for offline-installer ?
<ogra> i started looking at vm-builder and beyond that https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM/RootfsFromScratch seems to be widely used already
<ogra> jerone started sending fixes and to make changes to the wikipages
<ogra> *page
<persia> Are you planning to get a new package in pre-FF to handle this, or does it not need that?
<ogra> topic done ... will come to the kernel stuff later :)
<ogra> i would like to have a package, but worst case the script will do as i would rather like to base a packaged thing on vm-builder and i'm not done with that yet
<persia> Right.
<persia> [topic] StevenK: unr-handling-jaunty
<MootBot> New Topic:  StevenK: unr-handling-jaunty
<ogra> i'm also not sure how much time the slug will still take
<ogra> which constraints my time pre FF massively as it has to be ready for A5
<StevenK> Right, so what the Status of UNRJaunty?
<persia> "Good Progress".
<StevenK> It's still that
<ogra> implemented ?
<ogra> :)
<persia> RIght.
<persia> Next up.
<ogra> its there, we have dailies ...
<StevenK> There is a whole bunch of patches in the spec too ...
<ogra> oh, right
<persia> [topic] ogra: selection-of-arm-images
<MootBot> New Topic:  ogra: selection-of-arm-images
<ogra> well, what i said above
<ogra> cant do much without desktop kernels
<persia> OK.
<ogra> and we currently dont support any arm arch that could run desktop
<persia> That's all the specs on the roadmap that don't appear to have been obsoleted or superseded, so roadmap is complete.
<persia> [topic] Any Other Business
<MootBot> New Topic:  Any Other Business
<ogra> so i would like to set it to deferred ... until we have something we can do with it
<lool> I appended a bug to the roadmap
<lool> I didn't have time to look into it, would be nice to research it before tomorrow (release team meeting)
<lool> I researched on babbage and evm, it needs to be researched on rimu (porter box)
<lool> bug #299847
<ogra> weird
<persia> Oh, sorry I missed that.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 299847 in libipc-sharelite-perl "armel build failure (without ignoring testsuite results)" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/299847
<persia> [topic] bug 299847
<MootBot> New Topic:  bug 299847
<lool> Would someone have bandwidth to have a look?  whether the FTBFS can be reproduced on rimu and diagnose it a little?
<ogra> does it need to be pre FF ?
<lool> ogra: You think you will be done with NSLU2 today and can have a look?
<lool> ogra: It needs to be ASAP, preferably before tomorrow
<lool> (release team)
<ogra> i wont be done with nslu2 today ... but i will have spare cycles waiting for kernels
<lool> This bug is currently RC, but if you diagnose it further, we might discover it's not RC
<lool> ogra: Mind if I assign to you?
<ogra> fine, go ahead
<lool> done, thanks!
<lool> Done with this tpoic
<persia> [topic] Any Other Business
<MootBot> New Topic:  Any Other Business
<lool> persia: I'd like to discuss where to track a couple of things in the ether
<lool> One is the MID install test case
<persia> [topic] tracking things in the ether
<MootBot> New Topic:  tracking things in the ether
<lool> I think you have been working on that, but we didn't track it here
<lool> persia: Would you like to track it as an action or in the roadmap or continue tracking it outside these meetings?
<persia> testcases will be on testcases.qa.ubuntu.com
<lool> Good, do you want an action on this?  or a roadmap "Other item"?
<persia> action sounds good, as I don't really want to draft a testing-mid spec.
<lool> Ok, please action yourself :)
 * lool hopes not to be quoted out of context
<persia> [action] persia to post install testcases for MID and UNR
<MootBot> ACTION received:  persia to post install testcases for MID and UNR
<lool> thanks
<lool> persia: Same issue with the vfp libs
<persia> That's just a spec missing from the roadmap: I'll add it.
<davmor2> persia: Still no solid solution at the moment for that but we are working on it
<lool> persia: Thanks
<persia> davmor2, Understood.  Thanks for the timely update.
<lool> StevenK: How would you like to track Poulsbo intrepid packaging updates?
<persia> [action] persia to put vfp spec on the roadmap.
<MootBot> ACTION received:  persia to put vfp spec on the roadmap.
<lool> StevenK: Should these be tracked with the spec?
<StevenK> lool: Hmmm, we could track it.
<StevenK> I'm still waiting for the kernel team
<lool> StevenK: We had an UDS session and spec on it; should we add to the roadmap?
<StevenK> And have been otherwise caught up with **********
<lool> StevenK: Is there a bug for the addition of intrepid psb-drm to intrepid's kernel tree?
<StevenK> lool: Nope, please file one :-P
<lool> StevenK: Mind if I action you to do so?  You've been tracking intrepid poulsbo so far
<lool> I prefer the same person to do it bottom up, otherwise we mix responsabilities
<StevenK> lool: Fine
<persia> [action] StevenK to file poulsbo packaging bugs
<lool> If I ever need to pick it up, I'll pick up the lot   :-P
<MootBot> ACTION received:  StevenK to file poulsbo packaging bugs
<lool> persia: Also action the roadmap addition please
<persia> [action] persia to finish pouslbo-packaging spec draft and add to roadmap
<MootBot> ACTION received:  persia to finish pouslbo-packaging spec draft and add to roadmap
<lool> Thanks
<lool> People, are there any other items you're working on for jaunty/ubuntu which aren't tracked in the roadmap/these meetings?
<lool> e.g. NSLU2 d-i, or armel ftbfs, or image builds.... no idea
<lool> ogra: Anything from you?
<lool> persia, StevenK: did I forget any?
<ogra> nslu2 mainly
<lool> ogra: Should we track that as a bug?  As an "other item" on the roadmap?
<ogra> but i'm waiting on all the bits and pieces to appear in the archive atm
<ogra> "other item" is fine ...
<ogra> not a bug
<lool> ogra: I think we have a bug on the nslu2 not booting, right?
<ogra> i dont think so, but i can go digging after the meeting
<StevenK> lool: I don't think so
<persia> [action] ogra to add nslu2 enablement to the Roadmap
<MootBot> ACTION received:  ogra to add nslu2 enablement to the Roadmap
<lool> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/debian-installer/+bug/322217
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 322217 in debian-installer "ixp4xx image does not boot" [Undecided,New]
<ogra> ah, gracias
<lool> ogra: Mind updating this bug with an apex task and assign you to it?
 * ogra subscribes
<lool> I think you had in your plans to fix apex soon anyway
<ogra> its uploaded since 2h
<ogra> not the final fix but the workaround that will make it work with next d-i
<ogra> as soon as the kernel is there i'll know more
<lool> I added the bug to the RM
<ogra> ok
<ogra> status high or critical ?
<lool> persia: I'll check for possible additions with NCommander
<ogra> err importance
<lool> davidm: Anything from you?
<lool> ogra: High
<persia> [action] lool to follow up with NCommander to further extend the roadmap
<MootBot> ACTION received:  lool to follow up with NCommander to further extend the roadmap
<lool> persia: Thanks; I'm done
<persia> [topic] Any Other Business
<MootBot> New Topic:  Any Other Business
<lool> actually I didn't update my specs?
<davidm> MOstly from me is meetings, there may be more ARM hardware soonish, will know by feature freezed
<lool> A couple were deprecated, but here are my updates:
<lool> mid-display-manager: No update
<lool> lpia-versus-i386: Some progress; plan is clear now; need to catch infinity to implement changes before jaunty+1
<davidm> I'm just back from sprinting
<lool> recovery-partition: No update
<lool> lpia-versus-i386 saw progress over the sprint thanks to Colin and Matthias
<persia> lool, All those were obsolete or superseded, from my quick look.  Did I miss something?
<lool> persia: I think lpia is still on track
<ogra> davidm, is there any more HW among that that might add FF exceptions ?
<davidm> Nope, I can't see anyone else making it in, in time.
<ogra> (if you only know by FF ... sounds worrying)
<persia> lool, Oh, sorry.  I usually consider Approved/Informational to be complete.
<ogra> good
<lool> persia: Yeah well this one is weird
<lool> persia: suggestions to fix it welcome
<davidm> The problem is that OEM and others within the company need them to make it but ack that they must at least meet FF
<lool> The actions would now be on infinity's side
<persia> Maybe remove the informational flag?
<persia> Generally "Informational" specs don't require implementation.
<lool> persia: Changed to needs infrastructure
<persia> Right.  Needs an assignee as well, if something is to be done.
<lool> Oh actually I have one more thing
<lool> I had to check whether a bug was fixed on my jax10 for the kernel team
<lool> But I don't have it anymore
<davidm> Someone with a JAX10 will need to pick up this testing
<ogra> the jax or the bug ?
<persia> What's the bug number?
<davidm> ogra, the JAX
<ogra> oh
<lool> I'm afraid I need help from someone with a jax10; basically the goal is to check two things: a) whether jaunty kernels for i386 and lpia properly see 2 SSD drives of 2GB on the jax10 and b) whether UDMA 5 is selected on boot (just attach dmesg to the boot)
<persia> Right.
<lool> Bug 280669
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 280669 in linux "Doesn't detect second part of SSD drive on jax10" [Low,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/280669
<persia> [topic] bug #280669
<MootBot> New Topic:  bug #280669
<lool> If the UDMA5 isn't selected, you want to test the linux-lpia in apw's PPA (as noted in the bug)
<persia> Who volunteers to verify?
<davidm> Who has jax10's right now?
<davidm> I don't
<StevenK> I do
 * ogra but is already drowning ... i'D really prefer to not do additional pre FF tasks
<lool> ogra and ncommander as well I think
<lool> ogra: it's less urgent
<lool> I guess I can ask NCommander
<davidm> StevenK, can you flash image and test?
<ogra> ah, cool
<davidm> Or NCommander
<lool> persia: Action me to tell ncommander to look into this
<davidm> ogra, you have a lot on your plate now
<persia> [action] NCommander to test fix for 280699
<MootBot> ACTION received:  NCommander to test fix for 280699
<ogra> yes
<lool> As he's not around and I don't want him to discover he's an assignee overnight :)
<persia> [action] lool to remind NCommander of previous action
<MootBot> ACTION received:  lool to remind NCommander of previous action
<StevenK> davidm: My Jax is already running alpha-4, it saw it at least
<ogra> davidm, and the nslu isnt really making it easier ... one install takes 8h !
<davidm> OK
<lool> Any other business?
<davidm> ogra, ouch
<ogra> (thats for a minimal commandline system)
<davidm> lool, yes
<davidm> We need to finish spec definition several are still in drafting
<davidm> really need to finish that phase
<persia> [topic] Finish specs definition
<MootBot> New Topic:  Finish specs definition
<lool> davidm: Do you have a list of specs?
<lool> I think we should subscribe ubuntu-mobile to all specs if that's not the case to have a good list of specs on bp.lp.net/~u-m
<ogra> which ones are still drafting ?
 * ogra is sure his paperwork is done 
<persia> I just got the list.  Actioning those that need drafting
<persia> [action] persia to finish drafting arm-library-optimisation
<MootBot> ACTION received:  persia to finish drafting arm-library-optimisation
<davidm> poulsbo-packaging ARM Softboot Loader ARM library optimization  mobile spec cleanup
<ogra> arm-softboot-loader is deferred, no ?
<persia> [action] persia to finish drafting poulsbo-packaging
<MootBot> ACTION received:  persia to finish drafting poulsbo-packaging
<persia> [action] NCommander to finish drafting arm-softboot-loader
<MootBot> ACTION received:  NCommander to finish drafting arm-softboot-loader
<lool> mobile spec cleanup needs to be cleaned up: too many level of recursion
<ogra> it needs new research
<persia> ogra, No, blocked.
<davidm> ogra, the spec should be finished as it might suddenly get undefered
<ogra> it isnt researched properly yet
<persia> That's what Drafting (Needs Guidance) means :)
<ogra> there are a ton of existing implementations that werent taken into account
<davidm> persia, yes you are correct it's blocked but might become unblocked
<lool> persia: We already have an action earlier on StevenK for poulsbo-packaging; who is it who will complete it: you or StevenK ?
<StevenK> persia said he would
<persia> lool, StevenK does it, and I write down what he's doing.
<lool> Erf ok, whatever works for you two :)
<persia> OK.  Anything else for this topic?
<davidm> Nope
<persia> [topic] Any Other Business
<MootBot> New Topic:  Any Other Business
<lool> I'm happy
<persia> Seems like we covered it all then.  Ending the meeting.
 * ogra is happy that lool is happy :)
<lool> ^D
<persia> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 06:53.
<ogra> haappyness for everyone !
<persia> As a reminder, actions and minutes from the meeting will shortly appear on the agenda page: be sure to check to make sure you didn't miss anything.
<slangasek> ogra: "on that" - I'm not doing anything with eeepc hotkeys besides ripping out redundant code from acpi-support; I thought I've seen some bug reports that there's an asus acpi kernel driver needed?
<ogra> slangasek, well, all apart from sleep seems to work
 * ogra grins at popey ... "desktop furniture" heh
<popey> :)
<popey> ogra: in britain street lights are called "street furniture" by the local council.. "desktop furniture" seemed appropriate
<ogra> heh, funny, i aways thought that only applies to houses and flats
<popey> yeah, odd
<popey> i had a car accident once and knocked over a lamppost, council billed me for "reconstruction of street furniture", I had to call them to ask what it was!
<ogra> *grin*
<ogra> english is a funny language ...
<popey> :)
#ubuntu-meeting 2009-02-13
<Megiddo> when is the next ubuntuforums council meeting?
<huats> morning
<dholbach> hiya huats
<huats> hey dholbach
<emgent> @schedule rome
<persia> emgent, The bot doesn't know the schedule since the transition to the new calendar.  If you (or anyone) can make SupyBot understand Google Calendar and recurring events, it can be reenabled.
<ScottK> \o
<huats> morning scottK
<didrocks> hello ScottK
<ScottK> ola
<dholbach> hello everybody! :)
<dholbach> soren: around?
<soren> o/
<dholbach> yoohoo
<dholbach> didrocks, huats, Laney: alive and doing well as well? :)
<didrocks> dholbach: alive, for sure, at least ;)
 * jono high-fives everyone :)
<dholbach> didrocks: nervous? ;-)
<huats> alive yeah.... and sleeping an bit :)
<dholbach> we have an action-packed agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Council/Meeting
<didrocks> dholbach: no, it's ok. Just surprised to see huats wake up so early :p
<dholbach> let's first chat a bit with Didier Roche
<dholbach> :-)
<dholbach> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DidierRoche/MOTUApplication
<dholbach> didrocks: you said that you worked on the bzr-desktop documentation - how did that work out generally?
<dholbach> is it an easy, intuitive process? something that could be done by default?
<didrocks> dholbach: there were an original and deprecated documentation for bzr-desktop team. As I am found of Vcs, I wanted to try to put some packages in bzr
<didrocks> so, asking for some tips to james_w, I try to make it easier to use in the process
<didrocks> and rewrote the documentation
<didrocks> I think now it's quite easy to use. Putting a package in bzr is quite easy nowadays
<didrocks> and then, updating a package in bzr is just fantastic :)
<didrocks> I think that, as usual, the first step is the harder one
<didrocks> but then, it's a gain of time, when you have to diff between two revision, and so onâ¦
<dholbach> right
<dholbach> all the desktop packages just store the packaging in bzr, right?
<dholbach> erm... some of the desktop packages :)
<didrocks> we are putting them one by one :)
<didrocks> using bzr merge mode
<didrocks> and not everyone
<dholbach> right, but you don't store the actual source there, right?
<didrocks> yes, the merge mode is used to only store debian/ folder
<dholbach> could some of the DesktopTeam/Bzr docs go into DistributedDevelopment?
<didrocks> I think, yeah, there is some updates to do accordingly to branch destination, but I think I can handle that easily
<dholbach> super
<didrocks> I have to discuss with james_w about synchronisation
<dholbach> ah... talking about documentation: did you document the dh_install --list-missing pbuidler hook? :-)
<didrocks> because ATM, packages in ~desktop-team aren't synchronised if someone do not use bzr
<didrocks> dholbach: it's on my schedule
<didrocks> I want to better document hook
<dholbach> didrocks: great, it's going to be handy for lots of others as well
<didrocks> dholbach: it's written in the ~desktop documentation one
<dholbach> didrocks: where's that?
<didrocks> but also, I want to change some little things in the proposed hook
<didrocks> dholbach: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Bzr
<didrocks> (in updating a package)
<didrocks> but, for instance, there is a hook that install/remove/install/purgeâ¦
<didrocks> it's using depkg -i *.deb
<didrocks> dpkg
<didrocks> but when you use pbuilder, the external runtime dependency aren't install
<didrocks> I was thinking of changing it for dpkg -i *.deb || apt-get install -f
<didrocks> to avoid crashing on unresolved dependency
<dholbach> didrocks: you could take a look at the check-symbols script, I think kees added some functionality there to do something similar
<didrocks> dholbach: ok, I will, I just have used this script once and I have to review huats' work on it :)
<ScottK> Is it OK if I jump in with a question?  I need to get to bed.
<persia> ScottK, Yes.
<dholbach> ScottK: fire away
<ScottK> didrocks: I see you used to use KDE.  Have you tried KDE4 yet? (this isn't my actual question)
<didrocks> ScottK: hehe. I was sure it was KDE related :)
<didrocks> ScottK: I saw KDE 4.2 in FOSDEM and I was really impressed
<ScottK> In the Kubuntu team we are also using bzr to store the debian dir.  The basic is https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Ninjas/ReleasePackaging
<didrocks> especially with the "activities" dimension
<didrocks> I will have a look at the Ninjas' documentation
<ScottK> I was wondering if given your interest in bzr and desktop team you might be interested in working with us a bit and see how the two work flows compare.
<ScottK> See what we can learn from each other ...
<didrocks> so, yes, KDE 4.2 is a great step forward. I really want to see 4.4 when activities will be bind to worspakces
 * ScottK didn't pick the names ...
<didrocks> ScottK: for sure
<didrocks> ScottK: I will have a look and see how we can bind our workflows
<ScottK> vorian: ^^^ Be sure to grab this one the next release.
<dholbach> that sounds like a good idea
<ScottK> I don't know that it makes sense to 'bind' them, but see what we can learn from each other.
 * ScottK sits down.
<dholbach> thanks scottK
<persia> didrocks, One of your endorsements mentions small mistakes in upload candidates.  What strategies do you expect to use to avoid these in the future?
<didrocks> persia: my mistakes were mostly in my first uploads (something like september?)
<didrocks> I was more typos and stuff like that
<didrocks> (I remember a LP:# ...)
<didrocks> persia: I think having commit rights is well different
<didrocks> and this kind of responsibality will make you check things 3 or 4 times :)
<didrocks> and as I said "when I don't know, I ask"
<persia> Fair enough.
<soren> didrocks: You mention the server team a bit in your application. How have you found working with the server team? Is there anything we could do to improve?
<didrocks> seb128 and dholbach  are used that I bothered them with question
<didrocks> soren: I must say that I worked less recently with the desktop team. desktop team is time consuming :)
<didrocks> but well, I really want to get involved in both team
<didrocks> I find there very kind people and I think it's easy to get involved
<didrocks> I hope that, for instance, integration of upstrart, writing event script can make people join the team
<didrocks> upstart*
<didrocks> for improvement, well
<didrocks> I think more call for volonteer in special project can be a great help in that
<soren> Really? That's interesting.
<didrocks> as I get involved with removal of "multiuser" in init scripts :)
<soren> I think we often tend to aim wide to reach more people, but perhaps we should be more specific and just ask more often?
<didrocks> yeah, because people are some times, a little bit afraid, I reckon
<dholbach> that reminds me of james_w saying "if people scratch their own itches, maybe we need more itching powder" :)
<soren> Heh :)
<didrocks> knowing that "I can help on that" is easier for them to start
<didrocks> dholbach: that's true :)
<dholbach> didrocks: one thing I was really interested to read was your experience with Africedu - was it an experience you'd recommend to somebody else? would you do it again? what was the most challenging thing for you?
<didrocks> Africedu was really a great experience
<didrocks> I think I can share the video (30 minutes) of all the project
<didrocks> I would recommend to everyone who has a lot of time (one year project)
<dholbach> didrocks: I'd be very very very interested to see it
<didrocks> the non governemntal organization still exists
<soren> dholbach: Don't get any ideas. We need you here :)
<didrocks> it has 10 years now
<didrocks> every one, with a new team a new African country
<didrocks> so, it's really a human adventure
<didrocks> within the team (working togetherâ¦)
<dholbach> that sounds absolutely fantastic
<didrocks> and in communication, working with people with different way of living, cultureâ¦
<didrocks> sharing knowledge, etc.
<didrocks> the most challening part is as usual
<didrocks> money!
<didrocks> it's was quite hard to raise enough founds
<didrocks> to ship computers there
<didrocks> the most easy part is to find computers :)
<dholbach> Ok, let's chat about that some other time again - maybe you should write a long blog post about what you did there :-)
<dholbach> soren, persia: any more questions?
<persia> Also, you mention an interest in a content control mechanism.  Last month, it was mentioned that Ubuntu ME and ichthux both claim to have one on their websites.  Is your solution similar to the ones used there, or independent?
<didrocks> dholbach: for sure, it's quite old now, but why not, posting with the video :)
<soren> No, I'm good :)
<didrocks> persia: my solution is independant.; I search a lot time for such controls
<didrocks> but there aren't at all user friendly to me
<didrocks> you can find the result of my research at https://edge.launchpad.net/gchildcare
<didrocks> (if you want, I can give you more direct pointers)
<didrocks> but they are not integrated in the desktop environment
<didrocks> I really want to follow some KISS rules
<persia> Do you have any plans to coordinate with others to build a content control model that can be shared by all interested flavours?
<didrocks> I have already a guy with another team who joined me
<didrocks> and a OOo developper who wants to develop a plugin on it
<didrocks> (so, I have still to develop the plugin mecanism ;))
<persia> OK.  I'm good.
<dholbach> Votes
<dholbach> +1
<soren> +1!
<persia> +1
<dholbach> congratulations didrocks!
<didrocks> dholbach: thanks \o/
<dholbach> :-)
 * persia wonders if we oughtn't use MootBot
<huats> congratulations my friend !
<jono> congrats didrocks!! :)
<dholbach> persia: maybe next time? :)
<didrocks> thanks huats , it will be your turn soon :)
 * didrocks hugs jono
<huats> didrocks: let's see...
<dholbach> next up: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ChristopheSauthier/MOTUApplication
<persia> dholbach, Sounds like a plan.
<huats> hey everyone
<dholbach> huats: you've been quite involved in the Desktop team as well - what was your experience like? what do you think should be easier?
<huats> I think my experience was great :)
<huats> the guy are really great
<huats> seb128 is always present by instance
<huats> may be it might be interesting to continue the work that was started by norsetto to know the states of the various packages
<huats> I think that right now the centralised model we are using in the distribution of work is not optimal
<dholbach> what could be improved there? have a link to the page?
<huats> and a webpage listing the various states would be better
<persia> http://norsetto.890m.com/desktop_packages.php
<dholbach> persia: gracias
<huats> thanks persia
<huats> I think integrating that and most of all, using it might be a more  efficient way
<huats> to distribute the work
<huats> I have talked a bit with seb about that
<persia> huats, You mention you dislike the merging process, and raise this tracker in discussion of the Desktop Team experience.  How would you adjust or improve the workflow if you were responsible for a new definition?
<huats> clearly it was a question of lack of time if it hasn't been done so far
<dholbach> do you have examples of what should be changed on there to make the Desktop team more efficient?
<huats> persia: I will start with your question (sorry dholbach)
<dholbach> huats: take your time
<huats> persia: I said it was one of the thing I like the least
<huats> since there was something to fond :)
<huats> found
<huats> as I said
<huats> I haven't done tons merges
<huats> and that is probably the reason
<huats> persia: I really think that may be using bzr (or svn in the debian collaboration) might be a solution
<huats> to ease the process
<huats> besides
<persia> huats, How so?  Do you mean the manual merge effort, or the tracking of necessary variance?  You mention working upstream to avoid needing to merge (which is nice), but there are cases where we cannot do that.
<huats> I do think that the workflow is great as it is, and I don't see how we can simplify it
<huats> persia: one of the advantage of using a VCS might be the revision grouping of modifications
<huats> in the same revision you will likely to find things that are related
<huats> so you can sort them more easily, and keep the one you need
<huats> the manual merge effort still have to be here...
<huats> and of course there are cases where the upstream collaboration is not possible...
<huats> persia: did I answer your question and can deal with dholbach one ?
<persia> Sure.
<huats> dholbach: so improvments...
<huats> so far we are working mainly on a centralized way, where people go to the channel and ask seb : what can I do...
<huats> he is the only one who is keeping records of the stuffs that are needed to do
<huats> it might be better to use a common place to store that
<huats> there used to be a wiki page
<huats> but it was not very useful...
<huats> since you have to deal with colors and stuffs like that
<huats> having the same kind of page that persia pointed out in the url
<huats> might be better
<dholbach> so you're saying that it's not clear enough to newcomers what needs doing and what needs special attention?
<huats> you can annotate it, saying that you wokr on that (to avoid dupplicate work)
<huats> exactly
<huats> and you have the various versions available...
<dholbach> sounds like a good topic for ubuntu-desktop@, what do you think? :)
<huats> well it helps for the beginners AND for people who are daily working on it
<huats> absolutly
<huats> :)
<huats> there was a thread already
<huats> (in september if I remember well)
<huats> but it was too close of the intrepid release I think...
<dholbach> that might be
<huats> (and you need some time to be able to set an infrastucture)
<huats> even if in that case, it is almost done
<huats> (apparently vuntz is using the same kind of stuffs in the opensuse team)
<dholbach> huats: can you give us a quick update from the MOTU Mentoring Reception?
<huats> dholbach: sure :)
<huats> we have currently something like 20 mentee in the junior program
<huats> and 2-3 in the senior one
<huats> we are a bit short on mentors available everywhere except in europe (the location is important because we try to match mentee/mentors in the same timezone)
<huats> currently the main problem is that people sometime drop the mentoring program after a few days...
<huats> We have noticed that if your mentee is still here after 2 weeks you have good chances to keep him
<huats> I am thinking of asking every mentee to have like a bugpage, where he put the things he did...
<huats> (using the example of the great didrocks)
<dholbach> sounds like that would help to keep track of what the mentees are doing
<didrocks> (I told myself, "humâ¦ it reminds me something"â¦ ;))
<huats> so that it will be easier for us (the mentoring team) to notice people who are not doing stufs lately....
<huats> and so we can contact him quite fastly enough...
<huats> dholbach: exactly
<huats> currently I am sending an email to every mentors (something like every2 monthes)
<huats> and I am dealing with the answers...
<dholbach> huats: who's helping out in the mentoring reception at the moment? is it just you?
<huats> dholbach: were a 3 in the reception team
<huats> porthose and nxvl
<huats> but they are currently quite busy
<huats> so for some monthes I a bit alone... but they promised me they will be back ;)
<huats> and I trust them :)
<dholbach> ok :)
<dholbach> a question that was bound to come up: Mr 4k: how do we get those 4000 people in Paris to help out in Ubuntu development?
<dholbach> :-)
<huats> LOL
<huats> by doing more and more stuffs in France :)
<jono> I think it should be a requirement of his approval
<jono> at least 50% become MOTU in a year :)
<huats> jono: thanks :)
<huats> I might need some help in the mentoring reception then :)
<huats> dholbach: I think bugs jams are a very good start
<dholbach> huats: so you're going to do the "developers developers developers" dance in Paris next time?
<huats> we are doing one in paris for the global one
<huats> (didrocks chairing it)
<huats> and I am doing one in Toulouse too
<didrocks> (http://blog.didrocks.fr/index.php/post/What-to-do-after-Fosdem-Bug-jam! for more information)
<huats> yeah, if we are doing it with didrocks :)
<dholbach> didrocks, huats: promise? :)
<dholbach> ok... I'm all set :-)
<dholbach> soren, persia: any more questions?
<huats> you are of course invite to take pictures ;)
<huats> or to participate
<huats> :)
<soren> Nope, I'm good :)
<dholbach> huats: I'm sorry, I don't know how to translate "developer" into French :)
<huats> the same word
<didrocks> dholbach: dÃ©veloppeur (2 p) :)
<huats> developpeur
<dholbach> that's easy enough then :)
<persia> soren, Anything?
<dholbach> <soren> Nope, I'm good :)
<dholbach> persia: anything else from you?
<soren> What dholbach said :)
<persia> Nothing else from me.
<dholbach> OK
<dholbach> Votes
<persia> +1
<dholbach> +1 from me
<dholbach> soren: SeÃ±or Hansen? :)
<soren> +1 from me too!
<dholbach> congratulations huats!
<dholbach> :-)
 * didrocks hugs huats 
 * pochu cheers huats :)
<didrocks> congrats my friend :)
<huats> thanks guys !
<jono> congrats huats! :)
 * soren had an angry baby that needed a bit of attention.. Sorry.
 * huats hugs didrocks dholbach pochu persia soren
<dholbach> soren: I thought you wanted to keep the suspense high :)
<dholbach> Laney: around?
<didrocks> dholbach: I'm sure of that, soren likes this ^^
<jono> soren, drama queen...making huats wait :)
<huats> ;)
<soren> jono: Yeah, I'm like that. :)
<jono> hehe
<huats> soren: I knew it
<jono> Laney...a man named after my very first guitar amplifier
<dholbach> no surprises there
<jono> that has to be a reason for approval
 * jono chuckles
<dholbach> I hope Laney is not having second thoughts
<didrocks> jono: :)
<dholbach> quoting from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IainLane/MOTUApplication - section Areas of Improvement: "Iain is unfortunately not very good at applying for MOTU when he should, often waiting some months too long. "
<didrocks> dholbach: that's quite a good quotation which can be verified :)
<pochu> I guess he hasn't practiced very much :)
<didrocks> I am sorry, I really have to go to work now (more than one hour of transportation, Paris \o/)
<persia> Well, perhaps this is the practice run :)
<didrocks> so you later guys and thanks again ;)
<didrocks> see*
<dholbach> persia, soren: should we wait a few minutes for Laney to show up or organise an impromptu meeting or ask to show up in the next meeting?
<dholbach> or is there a different option you see?
<persia> I'm for waiting up to 7 minutes, and then asking for attendance at the next meeting.
<soren> I'm with persia.
<dholbach> alrighty
<soren> Unless the time is bad for Laney, though.
<dholbach> AFAIK he lives in the UK.
<persia> Well, that's the asking part.  If it's not good, we can expect him to respond, or reschedule.
<soren> Ok, so 1700 UTC should be good for him, I suspect.
<huats> he was here at the begnning of the meeting
<dholbach> huats: I don't think he replied here
<soren> He was?
<persia> Not in my backscroll, but perhaps not set Away.
<huats> dholbach: oh
<huats> may be I mixed it indeed...
<dholbach> last thing he said yesterday in #ubuntu-motu:    [23:11 UTC]  * Laney cuddles Debian      :)
<huats> :)
<dholbach> persia: do you think you can send Laney a mail about it?
<persia> Sure.
<dholbach> I'd take the action points of processing the applications of huats and didrocks :)
<dholbach> Next meeting: Feb 26th, 17:00 UTC.
<dholbach> Any other business?
<dholbach> Going once
<dholbach> twice
<dholbach> Thanks everybody. Adjourned.
<huats> dholbach: I have to go
<huats> (going to work)
<dholbach> huats: have a great day
<huats> thanks everyone
<huats> dholbach: I am sure it will :)
<Laney> oh CRAP!
<soren> o/
<dholbach> We're back for an impromptu meeting of the MOTU Council because of mis-scheduling... or something.
<Laney> :$
<dholbach> persia: want to drive MootBot?
<boredandblogging> there is an irc council meeting in a few minutes
<dholbach> boredandblogging: takes ~an hour?
<dholbach> I mean... does your meeting roughly take an hour?
<soren> #ubuntu-mc-meeting?
<boredandblogging> dholbach: an hour should be fine
<persia> soren, Not logged.
<dholbach> soren: we could do it afterwards?
 * persia won't be available in an hour
<soren> persia: Point.
<dholbach> geser, soren, Laney: would you guys be there?
<Laney> I'm here all day
<soren> Yes.
<Laney> besides 1-2pm
 * dholbach would be there too
<geser> dholbach: that would also give me an hour for a crash review of Laney application
<dholbach> excellent
 * Laney sets numerous alarms
<dholbach> let's recovene in an hour then
<Laney> !schedule
<ubottu> Ubuntu releases a new version every 6 months. Each version is supported for 18 months to 5 years. More info at http://www.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/releases & http://wiki.ubuntu.com/TimeBasedReleases
<Laney> erm
 * Laney cannot remember the command
<persia> Laney, It's disabled for now.
<Laney> right
<dholbach> thanks boredandblogging
<persia> Laney, Essentially, Supybot needs a plugin to parse Google Calendar feeds.
<boredandblogging> elky, jussi01, Pici, Pricey: ping
<elky> o hai
<jussi01> o/
<boredandblogging> hello!
<jussi01> where is nal?
<elky> not here unless he has to be, i'd guess
<Pricey> pong
<boredandblogging> should we give nalioth a couple of minutes?
<elky> he appears to be detached, judging by his /away
<jussi01> Pici: said he is busy, no?
<elky> we also have a quorum here, and a queue waiting behind us
<boredandblogging> true
<jussi01> well lets et it hppening
<elky> someone got a link to an agenda?
<boredandblogging> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IrcTeam/IrcCouncil/MeetingAgenda
<jussi01> ok
<boredandblogging> then let me start
<boredandblogging> i realize me being on the council is a bit odd
<boredandblogging> been around the community for a couple of years
<boredandblogging> spend quite a bit of time on irc
<boredandblogging> while I haven't done any ops work
<boredandblogging> think I've been involved in lots of different aspects
<boredandblogging> and hope that I can be of some help
<boredandblogging> particularly in helping the Irc Team communicate better with the rest of the community
<boredandblogging> even though Irc so important
<boredandblogging> it seems, at least to me, that its hard for the rest of the community
<boredandblogging> to know whats is going on with it
<boredandblogging> just want to help smooth all that part out :-)
<boredandblogging> thats all I got
<boredandblogging> anything more on that or shall we move on?
<jussi01> I got nothing to add. elky Pricey??
<jussi01> except, welcome ;)
<boredandblogging> jussi01: thanks
<elky> no, i'm distracted in several directions at the moment. dont expect immediate answers.
<jussi01> ok, lets move on, if Pricey wants say something then he can in a min.
<Pricey> not sure its a dicussion point
<boredandblogging> then IRC contributors team?
<Pricey> Currently we have the ubuntu-irc team, for 'reccomended operators'.
<Pricey> (I don't think it is technically needed any more for ubottu bt access)
<Pricey> The CC asked we start thinking about a process for approving Ubuntu membership.
<elky> define 'contributor' in terms of IRC. and what scope this involves in terms of what channels
<Pricey> yeah...
<Pricey> This isn't like the forums, we can't easily see other people's activities unless we were personally in that channel and have logs.
<jussi01> should it not then be limited to publically logged chans?
<Pricey> jussi01: i've heard the user with the nick "asiudj" has been great, can you go review logs for him on planet.ubuntu.com and come back to us with a report?
<elky> jussi01, depends. do you want to trawl #ubuntu logs anyway?
<jussi01> hrm
<boredandblogging> ask them to provide some evidence from logs in irclogs.u.c?
<Pricey> bah, i was reading planet, yeah meant irclogs.
<elky> boredandblogging, the problem with doing that is that you'll guaranteed get the good stuff, and not the bad stuff like them telling someone to stfu or rm....
<Pricey> boredandblogging: that could be very selective and overwhelming. I want about 3 months contribution I think, and reviewing 60+ days of logs to see what he's done in this other random channel?
<boredandblogging> elky: is that the problem with any evidence that a candidate would submit?
<elky> boredandblogging, forums are far more searchable than mbs of irc logs.
<boredandblogging> true
<Pricey> the original memberhsip teams didn't mind that what the candidate produced would be selective, regional ones still don't
<Pricey> so i htink we can ignore that
<Pricey> but they base a lot of "is this person a good contributor to ubuntu's irc community" on cheers from the ircc for example
<Pricey> and we wouldn't have cheered for that unless we had 1st hand experience with the person over a long time.... an operator
<elky> yeah. i'm not sure there's a list of checkboxes you can draw up for that either
<elky> it'd be a list of 1. and 100% interpretive
<Pricey> we have just cheered if we felt they deserved it
<elky> exactly
<elky> jussi01, Pici, boredandblogging any input?
<Pricey> Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | Check out the scheduled meetings at http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar
<Pricey> bah
* Pricey changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | Check out the scheduled meetings at http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar
<boredandblogging> not sure how to do it without some logs
<Pricey> operators that operate in the main ubuntu channels are going to be the easiest people to talk abot
<Pricey> *about
<boredandblogging> would people to able to nominate themselves?
<Pricey> well we haven't got any kind of process written down yet, but i assume so as everyone else does it that way
<elky> i kind of hope not. we'd have every second banned person applying.
<Pricey> and that's not going to make it fun, i see what you're getting at
<elky> especially the ones who actually tell us they're going to get us sacked and take down the channels
<elky> those are the most fun of all.
 * elky prods the screen.
<boredandblogging> like RMBs, why not ask for testimonials from operators when users nominate themselves?
<Pricey> See if I had my way, we would probably only really be dealing with main ubuntu operators, maybe a very small number of people who would probably have turned down +o etc. That's probably not good enough.
<Pricey> What kinds of people do we envisage coming to us for membership?
<elky> boredandblogging, the problem with this is a textbook Catch-22. Anyone who wants to be an op is clearly insane and should not be. Anyone who doesn't want to be is clearly sane and shoud.
<elky> the ones of us who are -- are the gulliable few from the second category
<boredandblogging> are we setting the bar too high? this team is to recognize their good work
<boredandblogging> not giving them the keys to anything
<Pricey> Is there a demand for this process? Can you think of more then 5 people you would suggest come to membership for this?
<elky> Pricey, well, if you want my honest, battleworn and slightly cynical opinion: the people who are least qualified to. the genuine ones are not actually going to ask.
<elky> Pricey, currently no. I dont even know who the active helpers are at this present time.
<elky> we're running out of time too
<jussi01> Sorry guys, had a very important phone call
<elky> boredandblogging, Pricey, Pici, jussi01
<elky> i think we need to think about this point some more. can we move on to the last so we can hand over to the patient motus?
<jussi01> 1 sec
<jussi01> I honestly can see some demand for mebership through IRC contribution, BUT! it seems to me, people hwo actually contribute on IRC also contribute other places, so should be handled buy the regional board
<Pricey> Unless they are someone from #ubuntu-ops? In which case, they might just contribute there?
<elky> in which case we've probably already assimilated them. all ops should be members first, imho.
<elky> but, this needs to be thought about some more, and we're out of time.
<jussi01> yes, but still why should we deal with it? they go to the regional board, with us in tow, and the regional bord makes the decision - we just cheer/give evidence
<elky> boredandblogging, you have another item waiting. were you invisaging that taking any more than 5 minutes?
<boredandblogging> no, its just grunt work stuff...
<boredandblogging> thinking we should post logs, summaries, do the team reports, etc, et
<elky> that sounds like volunteering then.
<jussi01> I see no real reason to make 'yet anothe member approval place'
<boredandblogging> i can kick off the reporting
<boredandblogging> unless someone else wants to do it
<elky> boredandblogging, we already post logs... or more to the point canonical does on our behalf.
<elky> secondly, summaries of what?
<elky> 'hi, we banned joe, billy and mary bob today.
<boredandblogging> any decisions, highlights of these meetings
<Pricey> bullet pointsont he wiki?
<boredandblogging> Pricey: yeah
<Pricey> i think the rest of ubuntu would like these reports summarised in the monthly team reports too
<boredandblogging> yes, the monthly team reports
<elky> Pricey, saying what exactly though?
<elky> there's absolutely no way i could summarise a month of my op stuff
<boredandblogging> no, just summarizing the council meeting
<boredandblogging> is that it for today?
<elky> uh ok then. i dont actually see anything reportworthy from this meeting though.
<dholbach> bullet points are OK :)
<jussi01> thats it for me
<jussi01> hi dholbach
<dholbach> hiya jussi01
<boredandblogging> someone want to set up the next meeting?
<elky> boredandblogging, want is probably the wrong word to use.
<boredandblogging> hah, we can do it later
<elky> good. because now that this is over, i can have friday drinks.
<boredandblogging> elky: have fun
<jussi01> same day, same time next month? :P
<jussi01> Ok, then, meeting over. MOYU's all yours :)
<dholbach> gracias!
<jussi01> MOTU's ;)
<elky> jussi01, dunno at this point. friday evenings are not the stable type for organising things.
<boredandblogging> thanks  everyone
<dholbach> Laney, geser, soren, persia(?)? :)
<Laney> howdy
<dholbach> I hope everybody else is busy sponsoring and reviewing
 * dholbach is not going to accept any other excuses :)
<jpds> Morning.
 * persia really isn't here, despite what the client may claim.
<dholbach> persia: ok
<dholbach> soren, geser: around? well prepared? :)
<soren> Yes.
<geser> yes, I'm ready for a second try :)
<dholbach> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 05:07. The chair is dholbach.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<dholbach> [TOPIC] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IainLane/MOTUApplication
<MootBot> New Topic:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IainLane/MOTUApplication
<dholbach> hiya Laney :)
<Laney> hello
<Laney> apologies for the false start
<dholbach> no worries, I think we as the MC want to show that we're flexible after ... some public display of procrastination with other applications :)
<Laney> heh
<dholbach> Laney: so you're interested in getting stuff upstream earlier and in a more streamlined way - do you have any ideas on how we could do that? is there anything missing today?
<Laney> Well
<Laney> I don't think there's really anything wrong with our processes
<Laney> just that they don't really emphasise the importance of getting stuff back to our upstreams as much as they should (IMO)
<dholbach> is it a matter of education and documentation, you think?
<Laney> pretty much
<Laney> Asking for bug links before sposoring patches, for example
<dholbach> volunteering for a UDW session next time? :)
<Laney> I'd be happy to do that!
<dholbach> excellent :)
<dholbach> do you make use of the submittodebian tool?
<Laney> yeah, that's how I submit bugs back
<dholbach> nice
<Laney> it seems to work well
<Laney> except I wish it would know how to ignore maintainer field changes
<dholbach> sounds like a feature request :)
<dholbach> you mention agda in your application, what is it?
<Laney> yeah, I started working on it
<Laney> ah yes
<dholbach> great
<Laney> this is a dependently typed programming language which I'm using in my PhD
<Laney> (DTP is a language where types can depend on values - a simple example is you can have a type of vectors of a certain length)
<dholbach> ah I see
<Laney> having better types in your programs gives more assurances that what you're writing is correct
<dholbach> Have you found somebody else with an interest in it already to start getting it in Debian/Ubuntu?
<Laney> I talked to sistpoty a while ago and he said he'd be happy to look at it too
<dholbach> ok
<dholbach> In your application you say: "I also support the mighty Nottingham Forest, currently battling their way to safety in the Championship after a shaky couple of months in the relegation zone." - what does that mean exactly? :)
<Laney> but I discovered that we're missing some dependencies
<Laney> hah!
<Laney> This is the football team in my city
<Laney> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nottingham_Forest
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nottingham_Forest
<dholbach> ahhh, it was a bit misleading - I was expecting some tree hugging activity going on there ;-)
<Laney> sadly nothing so noble
<dholbach> geser, soren: do you have questions too?
<geser> yes :)
 * Laney hides
<soren> geser: You go first.
<geser> Laney: I read that your are interested in haskell packages and also done a ghc transition already. I've helped with haskell transitions in the past and it was a hell to get the build order right. What's your impression from the haskell transition?
<Laney> geser: Yes. Basically I just built all of the packages and then drew a graph of which ones had unsatisfiable build-deps
<Laney> debian-haskell are talking about how to get past this
<Laney> I think a current idea is to use provides in a clever way
<geser> so the haskell packages are in a usable state currently in jaunty again?
<Laney> Until the next GHC upload breaks everything, yes
<Laney> but we probably won't get another one this cycle
<Laney> and things should be better for 6.10
<Laney> so maybe we only have to do this pain once more...
<soren> Does every ghc upload break things?
<Laney> They don't guarantee ABI stability
<Laney> so potentially
<soren> I mean... Even one without any changes in it? Is it that strict?
<soren> Or just ones that actually change internal data structures?
<Laney> the problem this time was slightly different though
<soren> Or whatever.
<Laney> the maintainer +dfsged the upstream version
<Laney> and therefore a lot of the dependent packages had to be rebuilt
<geser> Laney: and a last question: what's your impression/expierence with working with Debian in general?
<Laney> but in general, every upstream release (not each Debian one) will break ABI
<Laney> geser: Mixed to be honest
<geser> why?
<Laney> I love working with packaging teams in Debian, because you get a lot of people with specialist knowledge all working together on a focused set of packages
<Laney> but I've found some maintianers unwilling to work with me on things
<Laney> some people prefer to do everything themselves
<geser> soren: your turn
<Laney> and separately, I always feel guilty asking individuals for sponsorship
<geser> so the Ubuntu sponsoring models is better?
<soren> I'm good, actually. My question was already answered.
<Laney> geser: I prefer it because sponsors can take from it when they choose
<Laney> instead of being pinged
<dholbach> geser, soren: all set?
<soren> Yes!
<Laney> a lot of Debian teams have more DDs than contributors, so there's a lot of blocking on a single personw
<geser> yes, you can take over now again
<Laney> which doesn't feel fair to me
<dholbach> [VOTE] Should Iain Lane become a MOTU?
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Should Iain Lane become a MOTU?.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<soren> +1!
<dholbach> +1
<geser> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from dholbach. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<MootBot> +1 received from geser. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<soren> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from soren. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<dholbach> #endvote
<dholbach> err
<dholbach> ... whatever
<dholbach> [AGREED] Iain Lane to become MOTU
<MootBot> AGREED received:  Iain Lane to become MOTU
<Laney> it's [ENDVOTE]
<Laney> ;)
<dholbach> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 3 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 3
<dholbach> thanks Laney :)
<Laney> \o/
<soren> \m/
<Laney> nice one chaps
<dholbach> [TOPIC] Any other business?
<MootBot> New Topic:  Any other business?
<dholbach> nothing from me
<soren> Nor me.
<geser> nope
<dholbach> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 05:27.
<dholbach> thanks a bunch everybody!
<dholbach> congratulations Laney :)
<Laney> thanks a bunch
 * dholbach will do the honours
<dholbach> Laney: shall I directly add you to ubuntu-universe-sponsors? :)
<Laney> yes please
<dholbach> thanks
<slangasek> morning
<robbiew> hi
<ScottK> o/
 * lool waves
<dendrobates> o/
<pgraner> Yo
<pitti> hello
<cjwatson> hiya
<pitti> don't we have the release team meeting now?
<slangasek> yes
<slangasek> still doing a head count
<slangasek> mdz and rickspencer send their regrets
 * rtg is here
<slangasek> lool: will davidm be joining us also?
<lool> slangasek: No, he gave me his apologies
<slangasek> ok
<lool> He had a conflicting meeting
<pgraner> slangasek: rtg will be the kernel rep this week
<slangasek> Riddell, sbeattie: ping?
<sbeattie> hey
<slangasek> morning
<Riddell> hi
<slangasek> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 09:05. The chair is slangasek.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<slangasek> and we're off :)
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Outstanding actions
<MootBot> New Topic:  Outstanding actions
<slangasek> I sent out a list of these after the last meeting; I'll skip the ones that I know are resolved
<slangasek> (or that are going to be covered later)
<slangasek> robbiew: is dbarth on the google calendar invite list for this meeting?
<slangasek> I forgot to include him on the agenda mail :(
<robbiew> slangasek: yes
<slangasek> ok
<slangasek> but unavailable today, I guess
<lool> slangasek: I invited him, didn't see him right now
<slangasek> pgraner: hmm, looks like we have a carry-over item to discuss milestones in the kernel team
<lool> robbiew: I didn't seem him in the google calendar event
<robbiew> hmm
 * lool added him now
<robbiew> thnx...strange
<slangasek> pgraner: and we didn't get a chance to talk about the "kernel to userspace" communique during the sprint - at the end of the meeting, can we schedule some time to talk about these two items?
<robbiew> I added him, but perhaps it didn't update for all meetings
<pgraner> slangasek: we can talk later this afternoon if you want...
<slangasek> lool: did you chase up bug #299847?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 299847 in libipc-sharelite-perl "armel build failure (without ignoring testsuite results)" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/299847
<lool> slangasek: I delegated to ogra
<lool> ogra: ^
<ogra> yeah
<pgraner> slangasek: I'm in calls for two hours right after this meeting....
<lool> And asked that he sends his findings on the bug
<slangasek> pgraner: ok - at the end of the meeting, let's figure out a time that works?
<ogra> seems the porter boxes and buildds have issues all other armel devices dont show
<pgraner> slangasek: ack
<cjwatson> ogra: but on the upside at least it reproduces on the porter box, eh?
<ogra> i'm just testbuilding on qemu, it builds fine on all my arm devices here
<ogra> yes
<slangasek> lool, ogra: where does that leave us, then?  with a critical bug that needs fixed on the buildd/porter boxes, or a standing disabled testsuite for release?
<lool> slangasek: We'll continue investigating to understand severity of the issue, the fact that it only happens on one kernel / hardware seems to imply it might not be critical for the other platforms
<ogra> porter shows the same behavior as the buildds
<slangasek> lool: right; do we have to worry about misbuilds?
<lool> Hard to say what might be using the same interface; I don't this particular package or other perl packages in the stack are in danger though
 * ogra waits for the qemu build to get to the make test stage just this very moment
<lool> I just fear we discover this causes a class of syscalls to misbehave
<lool> Hopefully not creating broken binaries
<slangasek> ok
<lool> slangasek: So we'll continue debugging, nothing to report here apart slow progress in the research
<ogra> qemu is fine too btw
<slangasek> alright.  Given the size of the "makes a class of syscalls misbehave" unknown, we probably need a final assessment of this well before beta - what are the chances we'll know what's going on two weeks from now at the next meeting?
<ogra> (i wouldnt have expected differently)
<lool> ogra: Do you think you can finish investigation, perhaps with help from kernel or foundation folks?
<ogra> yeah, kernel and IS i think
<ogra> i have no clue what they are running on these machines
<lool> The kernel is older than the ubuntu jaunty armel ones, so this might be a cause
<ogra> right
<pgraner> ogra: ping amitk if you need kernel assistance
<lool> (the buildd hardware is not supported by our jaunty kernels)
<slangasek> ok, moving on
<slangasek>  * slangasek to ask armel/versatile/d-i to be added to ISO tracker
<ogra> pgraner, yep, i'll also need someone from IS to assist
<lool> slangasek: Could you also add NSLU2 and N2100 images?
<slangasek> I thought I did the asking, but I don't find it in my logs and it's not done; so I'll follow up on this today :/
<slangasek> lool: we're building all of those images currently?
<lool> slangasek: Also, make sure to reference the netboot images
<ogra> slangasek, versatile and nslu2 are netboot only
<lool> slangasek: We do, as inherited from Debian
<ogra> not sure about n2100
<lool> slangasek: NSLU2 is one of the board we have available in the mobile team and we're trying to enable
<slangasek> ok, so what we need is 'netboot arm' added to the tracker
<slangasek>  * lool, davidm to provide MID test case documentation for the ISO tracker
<slangasek> lool: was this done?
<lool> slangasek: I delegated to persia
<ogra> slangasek, a link to a howto on the wiki and to the dir that holds the netboot image would suffice
<lool> persia: ^
<lool> I know he was blocking on the move of testcases to testscases.qa.u.c
<slangasek> hmm, ok
 * persia is currently drafting, and expects to have something on the wiki soon.  Integration with testcases.qa.ubuntu.com will take longer due to issues with multiple flavour support for that site.
<lool> persia: Will you be done on Monday, before A5 testing begins?
<slangasek> Riddell: I see bug #289907 is fixed, kudos
<persia> Should be done in a couple hours.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 289907 in qt4-x11 "Event handler drops some events when rate of incoming events is high" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/289907
<slangasek> and that's it for outstanding actions - everything else was taken care of
<persia> Is Alpha 5 next week?  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JauntyReleaseSchedule says the week after.
<slangasek> alpha 5 on the 26th
<lool> Sorry, it's in two weeks, I'm confused with FF
<slangasek> would have had the answer more quickly if gnome-panel's calendar wasn't broken for me right now ;)
<slangasek> ok, team reports
<slangasek> [TOPIC] QA team
<MootBot> New Topic:  QA team
<sbeattie> The QA team is still looking for new features to test on an upcoming testing day
<sbeattie> Please add them to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/UbuntuTestingDay/Features
<sbeattie> Daily smoke testing continues apace: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/DailySmoke
<seb128> slangasek: use evolution directly ;-)
<sbeattie> We're ramping up a new person for hardware testing (fader), but he's still figuring out our infrastructure, so we don't have anything to report on that front.
<slangasek> seb128: I have enough apps left open without adding evo :(
<fader> Also in QA, I'm working on getting the hardware certification tests running on a regular basis across all the hardware I have access to
<fader> But I am currently blocking on access to some systems and on some work by cr3 and schwuk
<fader> Hopefully next week I'll be able to say at least a little something useful :)
<slangasek> :)
<sbeattie> that's all for us for this week.
<slangasek> ok, cheers
<slangasek> skipping over Desktop for the moment, at pitti's request
<pitti> I'm ready
<slangasek> oh
<pitti> but as you wish
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Desktop team
<MootBot> New Topic:  Desktop team
<pitti> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus
<slangasek> well then :)
<pitti> is our detailled report
<pitti> summary, we are still struggling with a couple of Xish bugs, but by and large the largest blocker is getting the Dx work into jaunty
<slangasek> do you have code drops scheduled for that?
<pitti> we are asking daily, but we won't get them until next Monday or Tuesday
<pitti> so far we only have a few internal testers
 * slangasek nods
<slangasek> is there a need for a wider call for testing?
<pitti> we'll send one out as soon as it lands
<slangasek> or should the focus be on getting the code landed in jaunty?
<slangasek> ack
<pitti> oh, internal testin?
<slangasek> I meant public
<pitti> it should land in jaunty proper ASAP
<slangasek> pitti: the status for bug #320632 says "debugging going on" - who's driving this?  based on conversations had with the kernel team during the sprint, I wonder if the remaining issue isn't a kernel regression
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 320632 in xfree86-driver-synaptics "tap-to-click and edge-scrolling broken in Jaunty" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/320632
<pitti> however, on the bright side, all the necessary bugs are filed now
<slangasek> a plus :)
<pitti> bugs> for the packages we need to fix for notifications
<pitti> 320632> I'll talk to bryce
<slangasek> also, is there any other potentially-disruptive spec work we should expect to see landing between now and alpha-5?
<pitti> the language selector shoudl get a better UI
<slangasek> rtg: do you have any insight into bug #320632?  Could the issue with side-scroll not working be related to that kernel regression, and is that synaptics reset issue now fixed in the kernel?
<pitti> but it doesn't change functionality, so it's only intrusive in terms of UIF
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 320632 in xfree86-driver-synaptics "tap-to-click and edge-scrolling broken in Jaunty" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/320632
<rtg> slangasek: I have no idea
<slangasek> who would know? apw?
<ScottK> WRT bugs for notificatios related changes. I've seen bugs filed on Universe packages for this.
<ScottK> I don't think MOTU is in a position to maintain a bunch of diff for this  and the changes should just be in Main.
 * ScottK had thought that was the plan.
<slangasek> [ACTION] slangasek to follow up with kernel team (apw) on the question of bug #320632 being a kernel bug
<MootBot> ACTION received:  slangasek to follow up with kernel team (apw) on the question of bug #320632 being a kernel bug
<pitti> ScottK: still good for having them, to attach upstream bug refs and patches to them
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 320632 in xfree86-driver-synaptics "tap-to-click and edge-scrolling broken in Jaunty" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/320632
<ScottK> pitti: I think the Ubuntu tasks should be wontfix though.
<pitti> ScottK: for all of them? I don't see why interested people shouldn't do/take them if they want
<slangasek> that sounds like a discussion we should take to #ubuntu-devel after?
<ScottK> OK
<slangasek> pitti: anything else from your team?
<pitti> not right now
<pitti> hopefully we'll have some better news next week
<slangasek> [ACTION] ScottK, pitti, slangasek to follow up on question of DX patches for universe
<MootBot> ACTION received:  ScottK, pitti, slangasek to follow up on question of DX patches for universe
<rtg> slangasek: the only synaptics patch that I'm aware of is the reset issue (which allows synaptics touchpads to be correctly identified)
<slangasek> pitti: "we're not breaking the release" is pretty good news as it stands, thanks ;)
<slangasek> rtg: right - I think the upshot of that bug is that the synaptics X driver now thinks all touchpads support scroll methods that they don't
<slangasek> rtg: anyway, I've taken an action to discuss this further after the meeting
<rtg> slangasek: hmm, I'll sic Andy on it since he did the bug work.
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Mobile team
<MootBot> New Topic:  Mobile team
<lool> Our jaunty roadmap is more or less tracked at <https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Roadmap>.
<lool> Since last meeting we dropped/postponed endangered specs and we discussed blockers at the sprint, either with foundations or kernel people; in particular toolchain changes (to enable FPU notably) are out of the picture for jaunty (303232).  However we expect to work on random libs to add VFP (FPU-enabled) flavours to t
<lool> hem ASAP; the list is discussed in 303232.
<lool> We assigned actions on other teams such as kernel actions to identified individuals where applicable (e.g. armel config fixes, or missing syscalls on armel).
<lool> We'd like to link to netboot images as part of the alpha 5 release announcement even if these aren't self-contained; we will be testing them against the archive around alpha time.
<lool> We're looking at some potential last minute work on the kernel to add a new flavour, but it remains uncertain that this will land in time for FF.
<lool> Finally, we will try to integrate the Poulsbo driver in jaunty as we receive it; first and biggest code drop is expected in the next 10 days.
<slangasek> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus
<slangasek> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Roadmap
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Roadmap
<lool> (That's about all the release worthy stuff which I've got)
<lool> Basically the vfp lib stuff is in flux right now, and the biggest other items are out of our control
<slangasek> lool: does the state of bug #303232 need to be updated to reflect your comments?  If we're not making toolchain changes, gcc-4.3 seems like the wrong package for the bug to be against?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 303232 in gcc-4.3 "armel gcc default optimisations" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/303232
<lool> slangasek: Yes; I'll update the bug when I have a list of bugs for library changes as I don't want to let the submitter think we're dropping the ball on the topic
<slangasek> ok
<lool> (Got an early list of libs earlier today only)
<slangasek> you'll open tasks on each of the libs that are going to be changed?  (You said 'list of bugs')
<lool> No, I think I'll open new bugs, one for each lib, due to prior bad experience with a bug with a long list of tasks
<lool> Perhaps I'll link them to this bug, or another meta bug
<slangasek> lool: bug #319729 wasn't on your report webpage, but was in the agenda - anything to say about the status there?  Is the course of action clear for resolving it?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 319729 in linux "ARM architecture lacks support for pselect() and ppoll()" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/319729
<lool> I'm happy to follow the best recommended practice here; I just have had poor experience with things like transition bugs or libv4l enablement and the like
<slangasek> [ACTION] slangasek, cjwatson, lool to discuss inclusion of ARM netboot images in the alpha-5 release announcement
<MootBot> ACTION received:  slangasek, cjwatson, lool to discuss inclusion of ARM netboot images in the alpha-5 release announcement
<lool> slangasek: Thanks for pointing it out, I will ad it to our "roadmap"; it's in the hands of the kernel team to bring this problem up to upstream now
<slangasek> ok; I see amitk is assigned to it
<slangasek> when we expect him to have an answer back from upstream?
<lool> (added to our "roadmap")
<slangasek> s/when we/when do we/
<lool> slangasek: I don't know; I asked for this during the sprint and reminded by email recently
<lool> 2 days ago
<lool> I tried subscribing to the upstream list since a month myself, but my subscription is pending moderation
<rtg> frankly, I doubt if he's had time to pursue it.
<lool> (tried via email and via web)
<lool> pgraner: Could you make sure amitk has enough time for this, or assign somebody else?
<slangasek> lool: put another way: what's an appropriate deadline by which this needs to be done, in order to keep ARM on track?
<ogra> they probably only accept snailmail subscriptions :)
<lool> slangasek: That's a good question, neither do we know how much ubuntu breaks without this support; I'm told udev will deadlock randomly due to races
<ogra> slangasek, to be honest nobody has seen the bug that can introduce yet
<pgraner> lool: we are going to have to let a contract to get that done, I'm in process now of working thru it. However I've been on travel for weeks
<lool> slangasek: So anytime our release team is happy for us to add the syscalls to the kernel, and before release I guess?
<slangasek> hmm, right
<lool> pgraner: Sure, thanks
<slangasek> lool: so it's clear that the solution will be to get the syscalls added?
<slangasek> as long as that much is clear, we have some time to get the implementation sorted
<lool> slangasek: I was told by NCommander that this didn't seem to be overly complex -- but he underlined that he isn't enough into kernel stuff to judge -- so that would be the preferred solution, yes
<lool> I don't know whether any other exist; AFAIK, newer udev just relies on that unconditionally
<slangasek> ok
<pgraner> slangasek, lool: do we have a bug that *demonstrates* this behavior
<ogra> we would need to ask Keybuk to provide a testcase
<lool> pgraner: No; I think Keybuk might have more information as he pointed out this syscalls as required for future upstart
<ogra> he brought it up
<lool> ISTR he mentionned upstart / init hanging without them
<lool> *these
<ogra> and udev
<cjwatson> it's a race, so a deterministic reproducer will be tough ...
<pgraner> lool: If we do this it will be expensive and I find it hard to believe if its that big of an issue it has not been fixed upstream yet
<lool> I don't think he saw udev hanging
<Keybuk> pselect() ?  it's part of POSIX!
<NCommander> Keybuk, glibc provides an emulation of it if the kernel doesn't
<Keybuk> it's not been done upstream because Russell King simply doesn't implement anything he doesn't need
<cjwatson> NCommander: the emulation doesn't fix the race
 * NCommander is now backish for five minutes.
<lool> pgraner: New udev only came out recently; perhaps it's fixed in 2.6.29 and we don't have it?  I don't know
<Keybuk> NCommander: the emulation suffers the exact race condition the syscall was designed to avoid
<pgraner> Keybuk: Is the definitely needed for Jaunty? If not we can work it for 9.10
<NCommander> Keybuk, no, I know, I'm just saying why glibc has it even though our kernel doesn't :-)
<Keybuk> pgraner: if the syscall is not implemented in the kernel, you will have random hangs in any program that uses pselect() or ppoll()
<lool> Keybuk: We plan to ship products based on jaunty/arm and tell people to install it; is it a serious issue which will prevent the use of jaunty?
<Keybuk> lool: I believe it is a critical issue
<lool> THanks
<slangasek> Keybuk: can you quantify the probability of such hangs?
<Keybuk> slangasek: no, it's a race condition
<Keybuk> I can describe it
<Keybuk> you have a main loop
<cjwatson> a small test program that loops a zillion times around pselect would probably be vaguely helpful
<Keybuk> your main loop, like just about every other, is a loop around a select() or poll() call that sleeps until there is activity
<Keybuk> you want that woken up by a particular signal
<Keybuk> but you don't want those signals otherwise being delivered to your process
<slangasek> Keybuk: maybe this would be better left for after the meeting then, we've already overrun the mobile team's slot
<Keybuk> so you set a signal mask to include that signal
<Keybuk> and before you select()
<Keybuk> restore the original signal mask
<Keybuk> select() with the original signal mask (so the signal can be caught)
<Keybuk> then restore the previous signal mask again after
<slangasek> Keybuk: #ubuntu-devel or elsewhere, please
<Keybuk> the race is that the signal can be delivered between the calls to sigprocmask() and select()
<lool> slangasek: Any other question on the list of things I dumped?
<Keybuk> if that happens, you will stay in sleep even though the signal has been delivered
<slangasek> lool: nope, thank you
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Kernel team
<MootBot> New Topic:  Kernel team
<rtg> need wireless-crda promoted to main (which pitti has promised to do)
<slangasek> rtg: bug #308387 is a one-liner control file change that's been lingering for a bit; who can take care of getting this fix into the next kernel upload?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 308387 in linux "[Jaunty] trying to overwrite `/usr/include/drm/drm_sarea.h', which is also in package libdrm-dev" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/308387
<rtg> slangasek: I think its done
<rtg> "Added libdrm-dev as a 'Replaces' to linux-libc-dev" in 2.6.28-8.21 changelog.
<slangasek> rtg: ah, you closed it an hour ago, ok :)
<slangasek> wireless-crda> I don't have a bug number on my watch list for that, is there an open bug that should be escalatd?
<rtg> slangasek: yeah, I've been slogging through several
<rtg> there is an MIR
<slangasek> bug #325801
<rtg> yes
<slangasek> what does not having wireless-crda block us on?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 325801 in ubuntu "Main inclusion request: wireless-crda" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/325801
<lool> slangasek: wireless-crda was just added to Ubuntu a couple of days ago
<pitti> saw it a couple of hours ago, will get to that asap
<rtg> The kernel won't install because wirel;ess-crda is a dependency
<lool> MIR has been set in progress some hours ago
<lool> By Kees IIRC
<pitti> lool: but not approved,  right?
<pitti> (yet)
<lool> in progress is approved AFAIK; albeit I had some comments against it
<slangasek> targeted to jaunty now
<lool>        Status: New => In Progress
<slangasek> rtg: er. why is it a depends instead of a recommends, which is what was suggested in the bug log?
<rtg> because its a requirement for CRDA. why wouldn't it be a depends?
<slangasek> definitely an alpha-5 issue if the kernel can't be installed, though ;)
<pitti> depends sounds too strong, there are certainly pleny of systems without any wifi at all?
<cjwatson> when I was asked about this, I said Recomments
<cjwatson> Recommends
<cjwatson> for pitti's reason
<lool> Yes, I wasn't personally sure whether this should be pulled by some higher level meta package or the kernel itself; I don't mind where but I want it to be optional in some use cases as well
<rtg> I'll defer to you guys. I just think it really needs to be installed.
<pitti> rtg: recommends just means that people can uninstall it, it'd still be installed by default
<slangasek> rtg: recommends -> installed by default, but users who don't have wifi can uninstall it for a slimmer system
<rtg> we have no kernels that do not also have wireless.
<lool> There was the question of upgrades; hopefully people don't turn off recommends
<slangasek> lool: users who do that are shooting themselves in the foot generally
<rtg> slangasek: CRDA is really small.
<cjwatson> I actually wondered why this isn't simply part of udev
<rtg> 'cause its not part of the udev upstream
<cjwatson> "why this isn't simply part of udev upstream"
<slangasek> right; anyway, Recommends vs. Depends doesn't need to be hashed out here and now
<rtg> disparate developers I guess
<cjwatson> maybe that's something that needs to be talked about
<slangasek> rtg: do you know if there's progress on bug #261318?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 261318 in linux "Regression: new Toshiba Laptop Support (tlsup) driver breaks Toshiba hotkeys; input device does not support 'kbd' input handler" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/261318
<slangasek> ... right, 'fix released', guess so
<slangasek> (bah, developer race conditions)
<rtg> I was looking at that. I thought we revereted to tochiba_acpi (which should fix the probnlem)
<rtg> toshiba_acpi, even
<slangasek> sounds right
<slangasek> the last bug I had on the list is #88746
<slangasek> IIRC I targeted this to jaunty because someone had already accepted a nomination for hardy
<rtg> bug 88746
<slangasek> but I don't know that anyone is working on it currently?
<ubottu> Error: Could not parse data returned by Launchpad: timed out (https://launchpad.net/bugs/88746/+text)
<slangasek> (or if it's even actionable, honestly)
<rtg> oh, that one. there are 472 comments.
<slangasek> yes
<rtg> I've never been able to get a handle on it.
<slangasek> what would help us get a handle on it?
<slangasek> do we need to get users to give us PCI IDs for their USB controllers, and get them to confirm that the devices work at USB2.0 speeds under !Linux?
<rtg> danged if I know. get a platform that exhibits the problem?
<rtg> looks like upstream has declined the bug report as invlaid
<rtg> uh, nevermind. I misread that
<slangasek> is there someone on the kernel team who could take care of distilling this bug?  or should we ask the QA team for help?
<rtg> lets put it this way, I have no plans to address this bug before release.
<slangasek> well, it's also been marked as an SRU candidate for hardy; so if we're not going to handle the bug we should follow through on documenting this in the bug state
<rtg> sure
<slangasek> [ACTION] slangasek to follow up on bug #88746
<MootBot> ACTION received:  slangasek to follow up on bug #88746
<ubottu> Error: Could not parse data returned by Launchpad: The read operation timed out (https://launchpad.net/bugs/88746/+text)
<slangasek> rtg: anything else we should discuss before moving on?
<ubottu> Error: Could not parse data returned by Launchpad: The read operation timed out (https://launchpad.net/bugs/88746/+text)
<rtg> CRDA was the big item for me.
<slangasek> ok
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Foundations team
<MootBot> New Topic:  Foundations team
<slangasek> cjwatson:
<slangasek> robbiew: you too, though I guess I saw cjwatson preparing the report :)
<robbiew> I'll defer to cjwatson, as I would just be a "parrot" for cjwatson's report..
<cjwatson> hah
<cjwatson> ok, bugs first
<cjwatson> 325690: (udev breaks cryptsetup initramfs hook) - fix committed
<cjwatson> 323602: (kernel upgrade fails when casper is installed(?)) - this is probably bug 292159, which I've discussed with Evan and we'll get fixed after FF
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 292159 in linux "MASTER update-initramfs is disabled since running on a live CD but it is running from a flash drive. " [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/292159
<cjwatson> 322482: (update-manager fails over remote GDM) - almost certainly not really an update-manager problem, as Steve points out, but it's true that there are lots of things that can go wrong in this scenario and a warning does seem called for; we'll get this fixed after FF, just need to figure out the best detection method
<cjwatson> 313218: (IPv6 causes slow Internet access) - still on my plate for as soon as I get feature work out of the way; there's been good progress upstream for at least a workaround
<cjwatson> 303515: (passwd gives wrong return code on failure) - this one's Steve's, likely to make progress upstream within the next few weeks
<cjwatson> 311228: (extra translations not installed for the default language) - fix committed
<cjwatson> 44194: (wpasupplicant interfaces don't start right with separate /usr partition) - I meant to discuss this at the sprint but didn't have time. One possible fix would be for all necessary binaries and libraries to be outside /usr, and to use somewhere like /var/run in case the root filesystem is not writable yet.
<cjwatson> 309215: (python-numpy vs. pygtk package split) - still an open question
<cjwatson> 325257: (migration-assistant incompatible with encrypted home directories) - per security team comments on lack of encrypted swap, we're going to have to disable encrypted home on the desktop CD, so this is moot for jaunty but we'll look at it anyway
<cjwatson> regarding feature freeze, major things yet to land are a couple more installer changes (including manual package selection for server installs and some more timezone map changes in ubiquity), python2.6, update-manager/computer-janitor merge, hwclock and console changes for boot performance
<slangasek> (ack on 44194, that was my thought as well)
<cjwatson> I NEWed python2.6 source earlier and should be able to NEW the binaries before leaving for the day
<cjwatson> (I'll be offline all weekend)
<cjwatson> robbiew: any other relevant feature bits I'm missing?
<robbiew> no...not that I'm aware of
<cjwatson> hmm, python2.6 failing on lpia not a good sign
<cjwatson> anyway, yeah - my general feeling from our last foundations meeting was that it's a bit of a sprint to the finish, but that most people are fairly well on track
<slangasek> sounds good, thanks
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Server team
<MootBot> New Topic:  Server team
<slangasek> dendrobates: hi-yo
<dendrobates> slangasek: nothing big from us.
<slangasek> dendrobates: I gave you two bugs in the agenda so you didn't feel left out :)  is jdstrand owning bug #305264?  we discussed at the sprint that the openldap behavior should be changed so it's consistent when built with gnutls vs. openssl
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 305264 in openldap "gnutls regression: failure in certificate chain validation" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/305264
<ScottK> I'll toss in that clamav 0.95 is expected in ~ 1 month another set of "let's break all the libclamav rdepends" changes.  They promise though that this is the one true last redesign.
<slangasek> or if not jdstrand, is there someone else on your team who can drive it?  (mathiaz?)  I'm happy to make sure the Debian openldap packages follow suit, but I don't have time right now to figure out what needs patching
<robbiew> dendrobates is on a call, so he may need to follow up via email
<slangasek> ScottK: heh
<slangasek> robbiew: ah, thanks
<slangasek> ScottK: and 0.95 is intended for jaunty?
<robbiew> has his head in the clouds ;)
<dendrobates> slangasek: mathiaz should handle anything ldap related.
<slangasek> [ACTION] slangasek to follow up with mathiaz on bug #305264
<MootBot> ACTION received:  slangasek to follow up with mathiaz on bug #305264
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 305264 in openldap "gnutls regression: failure in certificate chain validation" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/305264
<ScottK> slangasek: I'd say so if we can unbreak the rdepends in a reasonable time.
<ScottK> I've talked with Debian and upstream about a svn snapshot in experimental soonish so we can start working.
<slangasek> ok, great
<slangasek> dendrobates: thanks
<slangasek> [TOPIC] MOTU
<MootBot> New Topic:  MOTU
<slangasek> ScottK: still you, then :)
<ScottK> Yeah.
<ScottK> We got a volunteer for our 5th person, so it seems we'll be fully manned.
<slangasek> excellent
<ScottK> My biggest concern right now is Lenny releasing 5 days before feature freeze, what will get uploaded and what that does to the sponsorhip quueu
<ScottK> for some better spelling of queue
<slangasek> hmm
<cjwatson> you can always say no to merges :)
<ScottK> We also have a charter we're working with other MOTUs to clarify what it is we are supposed to be doing.
<ScottK> It's sort of grown organically up to now.
<slangasek> right; based on my experience with Debian post-release uploads, saying no might be a good idea anyway :)
<ScottK> heh.
<james_w> perhaps a mail to -motu@ would not go amiss?
<ScottK> That's it for MOTU I think.
<ScottK> james_w: For the post-release question?
<cjwatson> I think Mark Hymers' mail to d-d-a is apposite
<ScottK> We'll deal with it one way or another.
<cjwatson> "We'll drop an email to d-d-a again once this happens and then go and hide somewhere while everyone uploads a new version of every package to sid simultaneously :-)"
 * slangasek grins
<james_w> ScottK: to explain that there will be an explosion of things in MoM, and we probably don't want them all
<ScottK> Ah.
<ScottK> Makes sense.
<ScottK> james_w: I have to drop offline shortly after this meeting, would you draft something?
 * lool suggests we sponsor beer to Debian to make sure everybody is drunk for long after the release
 * ScottK suspects lool is wearing his Debian hat when he suggests that.
<james_w> ScottK: I'll draft it and let you take a look
<slangasek> [ACTION] james_w to draft an email to -motu about handling of post-lenny-release MoM explosion
<MootBot> ACTION received:  james_w to draft an email to -motu about handling of post-lenny-release MoM explosion
<lool> ScottK: argh!
<ScottK> That's it for MOTU.
<slangasek> lool: I'm not sure why you think that would reduce upload frequency, as opposed to upload quality ;)
<slangasek> ScottK: thanks :)
<lool> haha
<slangasek> [TOPIC] General feature update
<MootBot> New Topic:  General feature update
<ScottK> james_w: You can mail me, as I'll be getting mail.
<slangasek> (AKA: AOB?)
<pitti> thanks slangasek
<ScottK> It looks like we now have functional kernels/libdrm on all the ports archs.
<slangasek> goodgood
<slangasek> I think all the other features I'm aware of being in the pipe have been covered, so...
<ScottK> I've been working on getting the rebuild sequence right for KDE.
<ScottK> On hppa I will be blocked by Bug #311952
<ubottu> Error: Could not parse data returned by Launchpad: The read operation timed out (https://launchpad.net/bugs/311952/+text)
<ScottK> I'd appreciate it if someone could talk to the LP people about that one.
<ScottK> (since the bot isn't helping, it's a PAS problem that makes it so kdebidings gets skipped on hppa)
<slangasek> ah, hmm
<slangasek> cjwatson: I think we also need to talk through management of P-a-s for Ubuntu now that Debian has moved to git
<slangasek> pkern sent a mail to u-devel, I don't think there was any followup there
<ScottK> For intrepid, we have KDE 4.1.4 in -proposed and it is just lacking verificaton of https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kdeutils/+bug/318866
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 318866 in kdeutils "printer-applet does not display when new printers get configured" [Undecided,Fix committed]
<ScottK> Unfortunately haven't found someone with a USB printer to test it.
<ScottK> I was wondering if sru-verification could take that one on so we can get the set pushed to -updates.
<cjwatson> slangasek: yes, we'll need to grab infinity for that
<cjwatson> slangasek: assuming that we can't just continue to pull it
 * ScottK sits down.
<slangasek> sbeattie: can you help with that KDE SRU verification ScottK mentions above?
<sbeattie> ScottK|slangasek: yeah, I can take a poke at that one.
<slangasek> thanks
<ScottK> sbeattie: Thanks.
<ScottK> pitti: Once that one is verified, I think we can push 4.1.4 (all package bugs tagged kde4.1.4.)
<pitti> \o/
<slangasek> and I'll summarily truncate "Hardware testing, ISO size" since I think everything's been said which needs to at this point
<jdstrand> slangasek: IIRC we wanted to SRU the gnutls bug. I can take it
<jdstrand> dendrobates: ^
<slangasek> so I think were done here - thanks, all
<slangasek> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:31.
<pitti> thanks all
#ubuntu-meeting 2009-02-15
<j1mc_> hi all
<chewit> hi
 * charlie-tca waves
<j1mc_> i'm on a bit of a laggy connection - hope i stay with things.
<knome> hello.
<j1mc_> hi knome & JPohlmann
<JPohlmann> Hey
<knome> i'm also connecting (still) through my mobile phone
<cody-somerville> Hey! :)
<titan_ark_> hello :)
<j1mc_> hi cody-somerville
* knome changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | Check out the scheduled meetings at http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar
* knome changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/
<cody-somerville> j1mc_, hey
<knome> so are we ready to start or are we waiting for somebody to arrive?
<cody-somerville> Who is all here? :)
 * j1mc_ waves
 * charlie-tca nods
 * knome farts
 * JPohlmann is kinda here
<knome> ok, shall we start?
<j1mc_> sure
<chewit> it is 8mins in, so everyone wanting to be here is here
<ScottK> Which meeting is this?
<j1mc_> i'm a bit out of it today, and we don't have an agenda... if anyone would like to go first, please go ahead.
<knome> ScottK, xubuntu developer
<j1mc_> ScottK: xubuntu meeting
<cody-somerville> Alrighty
<cody-somerville> There are a few things I'd like to discuss today
 * ScottK will just toss in that the kernels on the ports archs (sparc, powerpc, ia64, and hppa) recently got fixed, so if you've got broken stuff you want to retry, now's a good time.
<charlie-tca> thanks, ScottK
<cody-somerville> ScottK, thanks :)
<cody-somerville> 1. Team Reports
<cody-somerville> OH wait
<cody-somerville> Lets see if we can use mootboot.
<cody-somerville> #STARTMEETING
<MootBot> Meeting started at 14:10. The chair is cody-somerville.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<mr_pouit> o/
<j1mc_> mr_pouit: yeay - glad you're here.
<knome> aye.
<cody-somerville> [TOPIC] Team Report
<MootBot> New Topic:  Team Report
<cody-somerville> The team report is a great way to help let the rest of the community know what we're up to.
<cody-somerville> Team leads: Please ensure you do your part to update it
<cody-somerville> It is located at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/TeamReports
<knome> Question: If the Team has been inactive, should I make a note on that?
<cody-somerville> Yes, please.
<knome> Ok.
<cody-somerville> I'm wondering, is anyone willing to take responsibility for the report?
<knome> Question: What if I am not allowed to edit the team report page?
<cody-somerville> ie. Poking people to update it, submitting it monthly, etc.
<cody-somerville> knome, You just need to login to edit it
<knome> ah! true. sorry. :)
 * charlie-tca raises hand s-l-o-w-l-y
<charlie-tca> I'll take it
<knome> I think this is something that one person should not take responsility.
 * j1mc_ nods - we need each team lead to be responsible to update it.
<cody-somerville> I agree
<cody-somerville> However, it would be nice if we could have someone volunteer to remind folks :)
<charlie-tca> but don't we need a leader to submit it to Ubuntu and remind people?
<j1mc> we're adults - we should put it in our calendars.  :)
<knome> I think the team reporting system is a bit confusing, for me at least.
<knome> Splitting it to separate parts is fine, but also quite restrictive.
<j1mc> when do we need to have the team reports updated every month?
<cody-somerville> 22nd
<cody-somerville> j1mc, I think you make a good point.
<knome> If I have tried to get new contributors to Xubuntu, is it part of Marketing, Community or what ever team the people decide to join or not to join?
<cody-somerville> knome, It would be a part of Marketing
<cody-somerville> knome, However, "community" is the catch-all category IMHO.
<cody-somerville> So if you don't think something fits somewhere, slot it into community
<cody-somerville> So, lets all take responsibility for updating it.
<knome> yes.
<cody-somerville> (instead of relying on someone to remind us)
<knome> can we add notifications on *bot ?
<j1mc> sounds good - i've just added it to my calendar
<j1mc> brb
<cody-somerville> The calendar idea also sounds like a great one.
<cody-somerville> I'm going to create two events on the calendar (repeating monthly) and invite the team leads. It'll be a reminder to update the team report and the deadline.
<knome> yes. sounds great. where is the calendar? :P
 * charlie-tca wondering that too
<cody-somerville> Thats another great idea. We should create a team calendar!
<knome> under xubuntu.org maybe?
<knome> i can take responsibility for that.
<cody-somerville> knome, I was thinking a Google Calendar
<JPohlmann> Liaison is not a team lead position, is it?
<knome> google calendar would then be just-an-another-site-you-have-to-visit (tm)
<cody-somerville> knome, I was thinking the same thing about adding a calendar to xubuntu
<cody-somerville> However, the nice thing about google calendar is that you can sync it with what ever you want
<knome> does ubuntu have a calendar?
<cody-somerville> A google calendar, yes.
<knome> can we just add our things there?
<knome> or are team reports already there?
<cody-somerville> JPohlmann, A leadership position but not a team lead position (unless you wanted to create an army of liaison)
<j1mc> team calendar sounds fine w/ me.  :)
<JPohlmann> cody-somerville: Not really ;)
<cody-somerville> knome, The Ubuntu calendar is more for events and less for this sort of coordination. However, we do use it internally
<knome> hmmh.
<knome> i think a xubuntu calendar would be useless if we only have team reports and maybe feature freezes there.
<knome> nobody would visit it anyway if there's only the things they know.
<knome> maybe by the spec (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Specifications/Jaunty/GrowXubuntuCommunity) try to communicate more.
<knome> #
<knome> Regular IRC & Skype Meetings
<knome> skype++
<cody-somerville> [ACTION] Cody to investigate the use of a team calendar
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Cody to investigate the use of a team calendar
<cody-somerville> Okay, lets move on.
<knome> right.
<cody-somerville> [TOPIC] Review roadmap
<MootBot> New Topic:  Review roadmap
<cody-somerville> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap
<cody-somerville> It looks like the roadmap page needs updating.
<knome> yes,
<knome> i will do it live.
<cody-somerville> However, I'm happy to announce that thanks to a number of folks such as mr_pouit, jeromeg, NCommander, and the debian xfce team... we now have xfce 4.6 uploaded to the archive.
<cody-somerville> mr_pouit, correct? :)
<cody-somerville> (4.6 Release Candidate 1 that is)
<mr_pouit> yes ^^
<j1mc> :)  thanks, all.
<knome> JPohlmann, what about thunar improvements?
<cody-somerville> We're still smoothing out the rough edges but I'm nor running jaunty and am very happy with a number of new features and improvements.
 * JPohlmann blushes
<cody-somerville> err..
<knome> ok, so the status "Starting to work on." is accurate.
<cody-somerville> *I'm now running
<knome> to where?
<JPohlmann> knome: There are only few new features in Thunar. We mostly fixed bugs.
<knome> what about user switcher applet?
<cody-somerville> Also, I'm happy to note that Jeromeg's xfswitch-plugin has been uploaded to the archive. xfswitch is a session switcher. Although not as featured as gnome's version, it does do the job and jeromeg is going to help add some extra features before jaunty releases.
<knome> \o/
<JPohlmann> Benedikt, the original author has been inactive for a while, so there wasn't much we could do. Thunar will receive a major overhaul (in form of GIO/GVfs support) in the next months.
<cody-somerville> w00t
<cody-somerville> So, back to "Thunar Improvements", thats actually Xubuntu specific.
<j1mc> mr_pouit: regarding the xfce-menu - the menu entries that are included in Applications > Settings > ...  (e.g., Appearance)... will we be able to hide the menu entries that are also included in the Xfce4 Settings Manager?
<knome> JPohlmann, will it make it to jaunty?
<cody-somerville> JPohlmann, do you think you could spare a half hour some day to help me look over the samba hack? :)
<j1mc> mr_pouit: i'm not sure if that sentence made sense.
<mr_pouit> j1mc: as we did with the previous dialog?
<JPohlmann> knome: Nope. I'll work on that the next 3+ months as a student thesis. I'll take my time ;)
<JPohlmann> cody-somerville: Does it not work anymore?
<knome> JPohlmann, yeah, no problem. i'll just update the roadmap page.
<j1mc> mr_pouit: yes, they appear in the settings manager, and they also appear as a separate menu item - can we hide the menu item like we did before?
<cody-somerville> JPohlmann, I haven't had a chance to look at it at all yet nor am I very good with autoconf stuff :)
<knome> cody-somerville, does "uploaded to the archive" mean the objectives ar fulfilled?
<cody-somerville> knome, We didn't really write a spec so its difficult to say. I'd say its good progress
<JPohlmann> cody-somerville: Ok. Sure, I can help you with that.
<cody-somerville> j1mc, mr_pouit: I think it looks better when items in the menu.
<knome> cody-somerville, ok. i'll make a new color scheme for the objective listing.
<cody-somerville> Next, "Refresh distro artwork"
<cody-somerville> knome has volunteered to do the distro artwork this release
<cody-somerville> jmakz is unfortunately too busy this cycle to be able to help :(
<knome> [TOPIC] Refresh distro artwork
<mr_pouit> +1, some (French) users complained that they were missing ;]
<j1mc> it seems weird to have them in two places, though.
<cody-somerville> knome, Any updates on the artwork?
<knome> cody-somerville, not yet. next week.
<cody-somerville> Finally, on the topic of the roadmap, Id like to look at our growing the xubuntu community spec unless someone has anything else to say about the other objectives.
<charlie-tca> j1mc: you get used to it after a little bit
<j1mc> ok - i can understand how people can get used to it, but you can say that about the other approach, too, and i think it makes more sense to have settings in one place.
<j1mc> otherwise, why even include the settings manager?
<knome> cody-somerville, go on.
<cody-somerville> The specification is located at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Specifications/Jaunty/GrowXubuntuCommunity
 * j1mc will bring up the other topic later - sorry all.
<knome> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap - updated.
<cody-somerville> I think this specification is an important one.
<knome> yes.
<chewit> knome, the xfce 4.6 milestones are not correct
<knome> chewit, ?
<chewit> on the roadmap
<JPohlmann> BTW, I could imagine another point in that specification: Be present at user and developer oriented conferences like FOSDEM. There were a lot of distributions present with a booth this year, but no Ubuntu and no Xubuntu.
<knome> JPohlmann, it would be interesting to have xubuntu there, yes.
<knome> chewit, yes. can you tell me what is wrong?
<cody-somerville> All of us are here, contributing to Xubuntu. People come and go and in a years time some of us will still be here, some of us will have moved on, and some of us will be new faces. So, I'd like to ensure we invest in recruiting new contributors and retaining existing ones.
<Myrtti> JPohlmann: LIES
<Myrtti> JPohlmann: there was a ubuntu desk
<JPohlmann> Really? Must have missed that.
<chewit> the dates are incorrect. for example. the release date on the list says it is in september 2008
<Myrtti> it was next to the gnome desk
<knome> a-ha on the spec page.
<JPohlmann> Fedora and CentOS were quite well represented IMHO but I couldn't spot the ubuntu logo anywhere
<knome> chewit, right?
<knome> chewit, ah, there. got it. yes.
<knome> JPohlmann, could you update the milestones section of the roadmap page on the wiki?
<chewit> though, not sure what the current release date is. It was meant to be the 6 Feb 09, but thats been & gone
<cody-somerville> Lets review the different items we brainstormed up
<cody-somerville> [IDEA] Improving the content on the "Get Involved" pages.
<MootBot> IDEA received:  Improving the content on the "Get Involved" pages.
<cody-somerville> We said:
<cody-somerville> # Ensure that there is contact information.
<cody-somerville> # Minimize the amount of information presented to the user at once.
<cody-somerville> # Point users at low hanging fruit.
<cody-somerville> # We want users to feel like they're apart of the team; link to 5-a-day.
<cody-somerville> # Improve more comprehensive documentation on the wiki.
<cody-somerville> knome, How is this coming along?
<JPohlmann> knome: You mean the Xfce wiki?
<knome> JPohlmann, ubuntu wiki
<knome> JPohlmann, see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap
<knome> cody-somerville, not really at all.
<JPohlmann> It's kinda difficult. We don't have a planned release date at the moment :-/
<knome> cody-somerville, i need the help of documentation team.
<knome> i would totally do taht by myself if i had the time. i hope that i'll have enough time to work on everything xubuntu the next week.
<j1mc> knome: what do you need help with?
<j1mc> re: documentation team
<knome> j1mc, improving the content on the "get involved" pages
<j1mc> knome: i could probably hash things out with you.
<knome> j1mc, or i don't know whether it should be the doc team.
<cody-somerville> What do you think about setting something up like the MOTU reception. ie. Volunteers who agree to help get new contributors contributing?
<j1mc> well, it's the xubuntu portion of the wiki, so we should really take responsibility for it.
<j1mc> i'm glad to help,though
<knome> j1mc, and http://xubuntu.org/contribute
<knome> j1mc, the wiki should include *all* the information available
<knome> j1mc, the website only main points.
<j1mc> knome: so you want to merge the info from the website section there into the wiki?
<knome> j1mc, nope, because the website info is not up-to-date
<knome> j1mc, we need to review that.
<knome> j1mc, and improve.
<j1mc> knome: ok - i'll take a look
<j1mc> ok
 * j1mc will help with that
<knome> the first item is critical, i think: # Ensure that there is contact information.
 * j1mc nods
<knome> cody-somerville, good idea. though that means we have to ave resources for that.
<knome> co	even if the people won't start conrtributing after the wha
<knome> *wha=hard work we put into that
<knome> i'm sorry about this crap, my connection is dying.
<cody-somerville> Who wants to volunteer to take that up and run with it?
<cody-somerville> I'm happy to volunteer to be a "mentor" or what ever you want to call it
<knome> i think that is something which should be done by the team leads.
<j1mc> cody-somerville: could you clarify "that"?  :)
<knome> if a user wants to contribute to marketing, i'm more than willing to help.
<knome> but if he wants to hack xubuntu's code, i just can't help.
<knome> i just can point them to saying hello to you (cody-somerville) and maybe JPohlmann or charlie-tca who know about that more.
<j1mc> i already said that i'd help update the getting involved portion of the wiki.
<knome> j1mc, and the website? :]
<cody-somerville> [ACTION] Cody to write up e-mail to xubuntu-dev ML about reception idea.
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Cody to write up e-mail to xubuntu-dev ML about reception idea.
<cody-somerville> Get more contributors blogging & talking about Xubuntu
<cody-somerville> We said:
<cody-somerville> # Get current contributors to apply for Ubuntu membership so that their blog posts are syndicated to planet.ubuntu.com
<cody-somerville> # Post/blog about the monthly team report.
<cody-somerville> #
<cody-somerville> Get people contributing to the team reports; see: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/TeamReports
<cody-somerville> # Encourage current contributors to help out more on the #xubuntu support channel.
<cody-somerville> # Start an official Xubuntu blog?
<cody-somerville> # Micro-blogging
<cody-somerville> # Ubuntu Weekly Newsletter
<cody-somerville> Who here is a Ubuntu member?
 * cody-somerville raises his hand.
 * j1mc 
 * knome is applying currently
<JPohlmann> It's a bit of a twist. I mean, with <10 people you just don't have the resources to make that all happen. But you need it to reach the point where you have >10 people helping out.
 * charlie-tca didn't think I did enough to apply
<j1mc> knome: yes, i'll help with website content if you can upload/format it
<knome> JPohlmann, true. but if we are mentoring, we might get new contriubtors who could mentor themselves.
<knome> j1mc, sure.
<j1mc> there is already a xubuntu group on identi.ca - http://identi.ca/group/xubuntu
<knome> JPohlmann, i mean, we lack this mentoring tradition.
<knome> who is on facebook?
 * j1mc 
 * JPohlmann   
<knome> j1mc, JPohlmann: do you have a xubuntu group?
<j1mc> not on facebook, i don't think
<knome> j1mc, create one and write a mail to the ML
<j1mc> ok
<cody-somerville> Facebook might be a little personal
<knome> (users and devel)
<knome> cody-somerville, why?
<knome> cody-somerville, it is still something that unites people and it's big atm.
<cody-somerville> Sure,
<cody-somerville> just saying some people might find it a little too personal
<j1mc> joining a group doesn't permit other people to see your entries.
<knome> then they won't join the group.
<knome> anyway, the point is to make people feel like they belong to this something called "the xubuntu community"
<knome> if they don't want to feel it, ok, then they won't.
<knome> and they won't join the group.
<knome> it's alower barrier to join the facebook group than to join #xubuntu on freenode and subscribe to the mailing list.
<knome> joining to a facebook group doesn't oblige you to anything.
<JPohlmann> Groups on Facebook are more a showing-off-what-you-like kind of thing. I don't think it's worth it. At least there are more important things.
<knome> JPohlmann, it's not a big thing to do, but it might grow up into something.
<knome> JPohlmann, isn't xubuntu something you'd like to show off that you like?
<knome> JPohlmann, (if, in the first place, you were using it?)
<JPohlmann> Well, maybe. But Facebook is not part of the Ubuntu community infrastructure so ... I'm not sure.
<knome> does it matter? neither is identi.ca
<knome> i don't know what the facebook groups are like but i expect you can have some content there.
<knome> just tell what xubuntu is, how to get it and how to contribute
<Nafallo> hahaha
<knome> like "hey, join this group if you like xubuntu" and once you're in "hey, who don't you join our community at thebiggestubuntucommunitysiteeverakaubuntu.com"
<knome> Nafallo, yes?
<JPohlmann> Right. Still, if it's about attracting new contributors Facebook is almost irrelevant.
<knome> JPohlmann, it's not attracting new *contributors*
<Nafallo> knome: just found it funny that the community would host facebook :-)
<knome> JPohlmann, community is not only contributors.
<Nafallo> having seen their kit and all... ;-)
<knome> JPohlmann, community is not only developers.
<knome> JPohlmann, community is people who use xubuntu.
<JPohlmann> Hmm. I thought we were talking about new contributors initally.
<knome> JPohlmann, yes, but you never know what a use can grow to, right?
<knome> JPohlmann, you remember me popping in at #xubuntu-devel? i had quit amarok and joined the channel and asked whether i could do something for xubuntu, because i like it. like a week or two after we had a new website.
<cody-somerville> I'm in favour of doing anything that doesn't drain our resources that might possible create a feeling of community and attract new contributors.
<cody-somerville> *possibly
<cody-somerville> So, lets move on
<knome> yes.
<knome> maybe a few words about the other items:
<cody-somerville> Lets all agree to make an active effort to blog, micro-blog, etc. etc., about Xubuntu
<knome> i've done efforts to get my new personal website up.
<JPohlmann> Yeah, that's right. It's true that facebook groups don't really cause any maintainance overhead. So if someone wants to go for it I'd be happy to join the group ;)
<knome> once i do, i'll start writing about xubuntu
<cody-somerville> :)
<cody-somerville> awesome
<knome> j1mc, ?
<j1mc> knome: yes?  :)
 * charlie-tca nods; he mentions xubuntu on his website
<knome> j1mc, maybe you are willing to create the xubuntu facebook group and send the mail as i asked, plase? :]
<j1mc> i'll get the fbook group set up
<j1mc> sure
<knome> i've also written about xubuntu in finnish on my personal blog.
<knome> and i've felt a need to write about it more and in english.
<knome> anyway, let's go on.
<cody-somerville> What do folks think about a Xubuntu blog?
<knome> isn't vinnl kind of writing one already?
<knome> or do you mean an aggreated blog from all of our entries?
<knome> keeping strictly xubuntu-only would make sense, but there is not a lot of subjects we can write about.
<cody-somerville> Thats not true
<cody-somerville> There is lots of Xubuntu stuff to write about
<cody-somerville> I'm thinking of an official Xubuntu blog
<knome> then i would not be the correct person to write that.
<cody-somerville> Where we'd post official xubuntu team blog entries.
<cody-somerville> Sort of like what the Server and launchpad team do
<knome> cody-somerville, can it be aggregated, please? :]
<j1mc_> cody-somerville: kind of like the server team, right?
<j1mc_> right
<cody-somerville> yup
<charlie-tca> We can't even keep the TeamReports up, how can we do a blog?
<cody-somerville> knome, any blog can be aggregated
<knome> charlie-tca, maybe that would be the solution.
<cody-somerville> charlie-tca, If the tool is available, people might be more inclined. Furthermore, blog entries are more fun to write then the the team report :)
<knome> cody-somerville, i mean aggregated like planet.
<cody-somerville> knome, I think it would be a wordpress instance and people who want to write for the blog could get accounts.
<cody-somerville> knome, We could use the xubuntu.org website for it even
<knome> cody-somerville, yeah. we might get off of drupal. is that possible?
<cody-somerville> Yup
<knome> \o/
<knome> +1 (billion)
<cody-somerville> [ACTION] Cody to investigate possibility of using xubuntu.org for official team blog.
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Cody to investigate possibility of using xubuntu.org for official team blog.
<cody-somerville> Okay, lets move on now.
<cody-somerville> "Create teamwork opportunities "
<JPohlmann> Planets usually aren't very coherent in their topics. If it's supposed to be about Xubuntu only, then aggregation like that doesn't make much sense.
<cody-somerville> We said:
<cody-somerville> # 5-a-day
<cody-somerville> # User-created content on the CD (ala Ubuntu Free Culture Showcase)
<cody-somerville> # "Community Help Contact"??? (could tie in with channel opping)
<cody-somerville> #
<cody-somerville> Bug & Package Jams
<knome> JPohlmann, true.
<cody-somerville> charlie-tca, What do you think of 5-a-day?
<j1mc_> JPohlmann: check out the server team blog or the launchpad team blog
<charlie-tca> 5-a-day is great for promoting bug-triaging.
<charlie-tca> But it is only useful for bug work
 * cody-somerville nods.
<cody-somerville> charlie-tca, How about we setup a 5-a-day Xubuntu team? :)
<knome> and only possible/relevat with bugs!
<knome> +n
<charlie-tca> If you want
<charlie-tca> I'll get one set up
<knome> charlie-tca, do you think that would draw people?
<cody-somerville> I think it would. It'll certainly get me more involved in bug triage.
<charlie-tca> I don't really know. I see a few people triaging our bugs, but we are at a point we have to triage all bugs to get 5-a-day
<knome> ok. let's certainly do that.
<charlie-tca> We only have 63 new bugs right now
<cody-somerville> [ACTION] Charlie to setup 5-a-day team
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Charlie to setup 5-a-day team
<knome> charlie-tca, i think the idea behind 5-a-day is not *5*, but improving contiributor quality and motivation.
<charlie-tca> okay
<cody-somerville> I think the user-created content on CD is something we can look at next cycle
<knome> yeah. agreed. we are too busy now already.
<cody-somerville> However, what about a "Community Help Contact". We could take turns herding #xubuntu :)
<charlie-tca> yes, good idea
<knome> community help contact could be also linked a bit with mentoring, right?
<knome> and also is linked to improving the get help&support and involved -pages :)
<cody-somerville> Sure
<cody-somerville> I'll see if TheSheep will champion the community help contact idea
<cody-somerville> [ACTION] Cody to speak with TheSheep about organizing the community help contact idea
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Cody to speak with TheSheep about organizing the community help contact idea
<knome> +1
<cody-somerville> "Regular IRC & Skype Meetings"
<knome> +1
<cody-somerville> It seems like we are doing IRC meetings regularly
<knome> ;)
<cody-somerville> How about we try Skype sometime?
<cody-somerville> :)
<charlie-tca> I have no Skypoe
<charlie-tca> Skype
<knome> we are, but i miss the impromptu meeting we've had a few times.
<j1mc_> me neither
<JPohlmann> Skype could be funny.
<cody-somerville> charlie-tca, We can call you
<cody-somerville> "Create resources for loco teams (flyers, artwork, etc.) "
<cody-somerville> knome, ^^
<cody-somerville> and last but not least, "Default settings for IRC and Pidgin could point to #xubuntu "
<knome> JPohlmann, it's easier now as we've met each other (at least many of us)
<cody-somerville> mr_pouit, Can you volunteer to explore this option?
<knome> cody-somerville, resources will come once we've progressed in the artwork for this cyclw.
<knome> *cycle
<cody-somerville> ok
<cody-somerville> great
<Myrtti> mumble
<Myrtti> for audio conference calls over IP
<cody-somerville> hehe
<cody-somerville> Myrtti, Hey!
<knome> cody-somerville, i'll just export thing to different shapes and sizes
<mr_pouit> cody-somerville: ok (if pidgin supports xdg config directories, it should be easy...)
<cody-somerville> Myrtti, Do you want to volunteer to champion the community contact idea for #xubuntu?
<cody-somerville> mr_pouit, I was thinking xchat as well
<knome> Myrtti, the official language for audio conferences should be finnish. ;)
<mr_pouit> ok
<Myrtti> cody-somerville: sure, if I can get a quick roundup on what's to be done.
<cody-somerville> mr_pouit, either have specific config for Xubuntu install or have it open #ubuntu, #kubuntu, and #xubuntu no matter what desktop you're on
<knome> cody-somerville, mr_pouit: i think that's already been done on ubuntu, irrc.
<knome> *iirc
<cody-somerville> [ACTION] mr_pouit to look into modifying pidgin and xchat to open #xubuntu in addition to #ubuntu on startup
<MootBot> ACTION received:  mr_pouit to look into modifying pidgin and xchat to open #xubuntu in addition to #ubuntu on startup
<knome> or kubuntu.
<knome> or then somebody was talking about that
<cody-somerville> [ACTION] Cody to also contact Myrtti regarding community help contact idea.
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Cody to also contact Myrtti regarding community help contact idea.
<cody-somerville> [TOPIC] Documentation
<MootBot> New Topic:  Documentation
<cody-somerville> JPohlmann, j1mc_ ^^ :)
<cody-somerville> Hey jeromeg
<JPohlmann> Discussion on the Xfce developer mailing list has started about how to improve the upstream end user documentation.
<jeromeg> hello
<cody-somerville> JPohlmann, excellent.
<knome> \o/
<cody-somerville> JPohlmann, do you think we'll see updated documentation for Jaunty?
<j1mc_> yeah - i sent them a note to get that ball rolling.  i'm working on some merges from ubuntu docs tonight.
<j1mc_> most inappropriate ubuntu references are out of the xubuntu docs, but i still need to update much of the content.
<JPohlmann> Jim is in a dialog with Nick and a few others. We're currently investigating different options. One way would be to write the documentation in a wiki and then importing it into the tarballs for releases. Another is to generate online content based on documentation that is shipped with the tarballs.
<j1mc_> being able to merge off of ubuntu docs is helping to keep things up to date, i think
 * cody-somerville nods.
<knome> agreed.
<cody-somerville> Interesting. I'm excited to hear this.
<JPohlmann> Nothing has been decided yet and this won't happen in 4.6 because we're now close to the final release.
<JPohlmann> So that's something for the next release cycle unfortunately.
<cody-somerville> j1mc_, I'd like to see a Xubuntu doc hug day or something to see if we can get the docs some love.
<j1mc_> i had proposed having xfce devs file a bug against their own packages to indicate if the docs needed updating
<j1mc_> some of the xfce devs have updated their docs - others haven't.
<j1mc_> i think jeromeg had updated his, right?  :)
 * JPohlmann hasn't. Shame on him.
 * knome throws a rotten tomato on JPohlmann 
<JPohlmann> AFAIR jeromeg has also updated the xfdesktop docs.
<jeromeg> j1mc_: I have an up to date doc for xfce4 screenshooter and I updated the xfdesktop one
<j1mc_> if xfce devs would file a bug against their packages in bugzilla - that would help things along.
<JPohlmann> j1mc_: I guess I could do that since I'm contributing to most of them.
<j1mc_> cody-somerville: a hug day sounds good.  i don't know how many docteam members are familiar with xubuntu, but we could still get some input.
<j1mc_> JPohlmann: if you could do that, it would be great.
<cody-somerville> [ACTION] j1mc_ to organize a Xubuntu doc hug day closer to doc freeze.
<MootBot> ACTION received:  j1mc_ to organize a Xubuntu doc hug day closer to doc freeze.
<JPohlmann> cody-somerville: Can you create an action for the bug filing thing for me?
<JPohlmann> Erm, yeah, I guess I can do that myself ...
<cody-somerville> [ACTION] JPohlmann to get developers to file bugs against their packages that need doc updating.
<MootBot> ACTION received:  JPohlmann to get developers to file bugs against their packages that need doc updating.
<JPohlmann> Ok
<cody-somerville> [TOPIC] Last minute topics
<MootBot> New Topic:  Last minute topics
<cody-somerville> Anything else anyone would like to bring up before we conclude this meeting?
<knome> I'm married!
<knome> WOOHOOO
<Myrtti> knome: congrats!
<j1mc_> wow - congrats, knome!!!
<knome> partee at my house any summer day ;)
<charlie-tca> Yes, I would like opinions on expanduing the testing of the LiveCD to about what we do on an install
<JPohlmann> On a side node: I've almost finished work on move/merging support in libxfce4menu. It won't make it into 4.6 but at least it's now pretty sure that it will be finished in 4.8 ;)
<j1mc_> :)
<knome> Myrtti, j1mc_: thanks
<cody-somerville> JPohlmann, knome :)
<j1mc_> JPohlmann: wonderful.
<cody-somerville> charlie-tca, Can you elaborate?
<charlie-tca> Many people are using the desktop cd as a live cd without installing. They are finding bugs we miss in testing
<charlie-tca> I think we need to expand testing to actual use cases
<cody-somerville> That sounds like an excellent idea to me.
<charlie-tca> AbiWord, for example, will mis-spell words that work on the installed version
<charlie-tca> pulse audio has to be installed to use totem and VLC
<cody-somerville> oh bloody hell
<charlie-tca> \o/
<cody-somerville> [ACTION] Cody to speak with Luke and Charlie about audio issues.
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Cody to speak with Luke and Charlie about audio issues.
<jeromeg> xubuntu ships vlc ?
<cody-somerville> jeromeg, no
<charlie-tca> No, but using it with the livecd fails
<jeromeg> ok
<cody-somerville> charlie-tca, are there bugs for all this?
<charlie-tca> some of it.
<charlie-tca> bug 329252
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 329252 in xubuntu-meta "No sound on Jaunty Alpha 4 Live CD (missing pulseaudio)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/329252
<charlie-tca> I don't think most of it is reported
<cody-somerville> I was hoping we could avoid pulseaudio
<cody-somerville> We'll have to investigate I guess
<charlie-tca> doesn't seem like it
<j1mc_> i know we talked about it earlier, and it looks like others disagre with me, but ... do we really want two menu items / places to update the same thing in Xubuntu?  (re: settings manager items or regular menu items)?
<cody-somerville> Anything else we need to discuss before I conclude this meeting? :)
<j1mc_> Of course, I'm partly asking because having them in two places requires that I document them being in two places, but it also doesn't make a lot of sense.
<cody-somerville> j1mc_, I like both
<cody-somerville> j1mc_, especially with the divider between the settings manager and the rest
<j1mc_> others agree?
 * charlie-tca nods
<charlie-tca> I like the "other" menu, too
<j1mc_> ok - so be it.  :)  i'll figure something out.
<cody-somerville> j1mc_, sorry for the extra work ;p
<j1mc_> no biggie
<cody-somerville> j1mc_, I recommend for documentation that you pick one way and use it throughout for consistency
<j1mc_> it would've been extra work for mr_pouit the other way, too.  :)
<cody-somerville> ;]
<cody-somerville> Okay, any other things? :)
<knome> hmmh. who administrates the identi.ca xubuntu group?
<j1mc_> i'll probably direct people to the settings manager, but will also note that they are available as individual menus
<cody-somerville> j1mc_, okay
<j1mc_> knome: boredandblogging
<cody-somerville> #ENDMEETING
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 15:44.
<j1mc_> he set it up  (nick ali)
<knome> ok.
<j1mc_> All - next meeting is set for april 5th
<j1mc_> a little earlier given the release cycle deadlines
<knome> j1mc_, ali like right now in freenode?
<cody-somerville> Who wants to update the wiki for this meeting?
<knome> it's a long way there.
<j1mc_> knome: he goes by boredandblogging on freenode
<knome> ok.
<cody-somerville> j1mc_, knome? :)
<j1mc_> cody-somerville: i'll update the wiki
<cody-somerville> thanks
<knome> j1mc_, thanks.
<j1mc_> np
#ubuntu-meeting 2010-02-16
 * popey pokes dholbach Technoviking pleia2 ..
 * popey pokes nixternal_ too :)
<Tarek> the meeting should start now, isn't it ?
<persia> Tarek: Waiting on quorum.
<Tarek> ok
<popey> nobody seems to be about
<lifeless> which team ?
<popey> cc
<cjohnston> iirc pleia2 is moving today?
<persia> lifeless: Comunity Council
<persia> lifeless: That's why we never meet third tuesday :)
<lifeless> :)
<lifeless> in which case, ngight
 * lifeless zzz's
<dholbach> popey: pong
<popey> dholbach: cc meeting?
<dholbach> we don't seem to have quorum (yet) - do we have an agenda?
<popey> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda
<popey> no
<popey> :)
<persia> Do you need quorum if there is no agenda?
<popey> do we need a cc if there's no agenda ;)
<cjohnston> heh
<persia> Yes, to address all the outstanding action items pending return to the agenda.
<popey> I was being humourous
<popey> or not
 * persia at least is anxiously awaiting deeper feedback on the council selection process unification item
<persia> popey: Well, I worry about statements like that: I've seen teams dissipate due to lack of agenda over a period of time because that question is asked.
<persia> (and I'd hate to see that happen to the CC, because I'd have nobody to whom to report for some of my roles)
<dholbach> there's no need to worry
 * cjohnston could make an agenda for yall
<cjohnston> ;-)
<persia> dholbach: I'm not at all worried about the CC going away: just about statements of that form :)
<sagaci> for a lesser being who's never attended an online ubuntu meeting, are all ubuntu meetings this well organised?
<dholbach> ok, in an attempt to get back to less theoretical discussions, I'm going to chase the thread about council staffing unification again
<cjohnston> sagaci: some are better, some arent...
 * dholbach adds it to his TODO list.
<sagaci> cjohnston: thanks for the info
<cjohnston> sagaci: alot of times it depends on if the members can make the meeting time.. For anyone in the US, this is a hard meeting time...
<dholbach> popey: it might be worth to check for any other open threads again - shall we do that together later today or maybe tomorrow?
<persia> dholbach: Thanks.  I remember pleia2 volunteering to ask some folk about it, but never received the questionnaire myself (and would have expected such).  I heard some people got asked, so it may be in-process (although perhaps not).
<dholbach> persia: what kind of questionnaire are you referring to?
<sagaci> cjohnston: most of the meetings are held 11pm-7am Australia time, hence why I've been reluctant to observe these things
<popey> dholbach: sure
<dholbach> popey: awesome :)
<persia> "How has your council/board done selection in the past?" was the gist I heard from rumours, but I didn't get one yet, so can't say with certainty.
<dholbach> that's the first time I hear of any questionnaires
<dholbach> so it might be rumour :)
<persia> sagaci: The CC meeting rotates: the one at 20 or 21 UTC (I forget which) may be easier for you (early in the morning).
<persia> dholbach: Or an informal beginning :)
<dholbach> ok, popey and I have two action items, if there's nothing else, let's adjourn.
<dholbach> thanks a lot everybody. adjourned.
<persia> Y'all should schedule more agenda items for this timeslot.  It always seems quiet (and the other one makes me yawn) :)
<czajkowski> persia: but this time slot doesn't have a lot of people at it. so I guess they could add the same agenda items to both meetings ?
<czajkowski> not sure if that's been suggested before though.
<persia> same items in both meetings is wasteful.
<persia> If CC can't make this timeslot, the timeslot should move a bit so it can be made (but still not exclude this side of the world)
<koroskawy> Øµ
<mako> oh shoot, i'm an hour off
<czajkowski> mako: what timezone are you in ;)
<mako> EST
<persia> That's UTC-5, as opposed to other ESTs (like +11)
<persia> (Well, +11 is currently EDT, but that's a different matter)
<NCommander> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 07:00. The chair is NCommander.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<asac> o/
<NCommander> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2010/20100216
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2010/20100216
<asac> dyfet: plars: JamieBennett: StevenK: ping
 * plars is here
<asac> ogra: GrueMaster: ping
<NCommander> [topic] Action Item Review
<MootBot> New Topic:  Action Item Review
<ogra> mooo
<JamieBennett> baaa
 * StevenK wavers
<asac> NCommander: maybe wait till all are here? ;)
 * persia checks mail in hopes of last minute responders
<NCommander> asac: yup, just waiting a moment
<asac> good
<dyfet> hi
<davidm> hi
<NCommander> hrm
 * dmart is here
<NCommander> no ericm or coolney
<asac> hi dmart
<dmart> hi there
<asac> i think in china its holiday
<NCommander> Oh
<JamieBennett> dmart: If you feel like adding your AR to the wiki please do :)
<NCommander> ok
<ogra> still new year ?
<asac> almost whole week afaik
<ogra> wasnt that on friday ?
<ogra> oh, k
 * GrueMaster is here
<asac> arne said he is off whole week
<asac> ok lets get started
<asac> NCommander: go ;)
<NCommander> [topic] ericm to smoke-test dove images to confirm that the gnome-panel crashes have now been fixed
<MootBot> New Topic:  ericm to smoke-test dove images to confirm that the gnome-panel crashes have now been fixed
<NCommander> (I know no ericm, but I have stuff to say)
<asac> i think someone  of us can take that over now
<NCommander> gnome-panel looked fixed w.r.t to X0, and I can test later today if no one else is setup with X0
<asac> NCommander: i think you have X0 set up already?
<dmart> JamieBennett: ok, cam do.  Mostly wiki editing though...
<NCommander> asac: not yet, I'll get it later today
<asac> NCommander: i have to run at some point today to get an atx power thing for my board
<GrueMaster> My X0 came yesterday.  I'll have it online momentarily.
<NCommander> GrueMaster: want to take the action item?
<asac> then it will be up soonish too i hope
<GrueMaster> Sure, since I have to do testing anyways.
<asac> great
<NCommander> [action] GrueMaster to check gnome-panel on X0 and report if crashes have been fixed
<plars> seemed to be fixed at the sprint, but I would say everyone booting on their new boards should just keep an eye out for it, since we didn't have a definitive way to reproduce it or not reproduce it
<MootBot> ACTION received:  GrueMaster to check gnome-panel on X0 and report if crashes have been fixed
<NCommander> [topic] persia to investigate into moving the team IRC meeting to a more universally acceptable time
<MootBot> New Topic:  persia to investigate into moving the team IRC meeting to a more universally acceptable time
<persia> Right.  So, y'all failed to respond to my mail.  I got a total of three responses.
<asac> plars: we wanted to explicitly smoke test the board extensively when we first get them (we didnt have time to do that during sprint to full extend)
<asac> was there another?
 * JamieBennett responded
 * plars responded
<JamieBennett> so just keep it as it is
 * GrueMaster responded.
<persia> No need to identify yourselves.
<persia> Anyway, a couple people wanted to move the meeting a couple hours later, but most seemed flexible.
<asac> any suggestion of time?
<persia> This or 14:00 is probably best.
<plars> So, seeing as how (presumably) the people that care about the meeting are here right now, please check ubuntu-mobile mailing list if you have it filtered, and responde to persia's email if you have an opinion on the time of the meeting
<asac> 1400 UTC feels good if StevenK and persia are fine
<persia> But 14:00 will slam into the TB meetings when DST comes, as the TB likes to move.
<asac> well. we should adjust it same as TB meeting i think
<ogra> ++
<JamieBennett> ++
<GrueMaster> If the TB likes to move, then they are more flexible about moving away from our meeting.
<persia> I don't.  Daylight savings is for silly countries!
<StevenK> I'd rather not start a meeting at 1am local time
 * NCommander has no strong preferences
<ogra> StevenK, 2am better ?
<StevenK> Worse
 * ogra hides
<persia> Plus, daylight savings changes in *different* directions in different countries at different times of year, and is messy.
<asac> we should say we always have meeting in the hour before TB ;)
<asac> ok ... so from what i understand all but StevenK would be happy with 1400UTC?
<persia> That's the 1am that was indicated as bad.
<asac> ok. any other suggestion?
<JamieBennett> keep as is?
<NCommander> hey ericm
<ericm> hi all, sorry late on this
<asac> ok ... seems needs more thinking/talks/decision
<davidm> 01:00 is bad, 05:00 is worse in some ways
<persia> Keeping it the way it is seems to be least bad given the ranges I was given.  The other time that works internationally is around 21:00 UTC, but most of the ranges I received didn't include that.
<GrueMaster> works for me
<JamieBennett> davidm: depends on if you have young children who get up at 5am ;)
<persia> asac: Let's not revisit this for at least a few months, and I'll send another mail.  This time is fine for now.
<asac> ok
<persia> NCommander: next?
<ogra> lets revisit it for next release in any case
<persia> ogra: Seems a good schedule.
<NCommander> [topic] StevenK to talk to seb about gnome-games refactoring.
<MootBot> New Topic:  StevenK to talk to seb about gnome-games refactoring.
<ogra> cycle switch is a perfect time to make a time swithc too
<asac> StevenK: ?
<asac> ok ... lets move on ... we can check when he is back
<asac> NCommander: ?
 * NCommander skips StevenK's other action item
<StevenK> Argh, I've not done that
<persia> Well, gnome-games seems to now be essentially a metapackage.
<NCommander> [topic] asac to blog about the new ARM 2D netbook launcher UI.
<MootBot> New Topic:  asac to blog about the new ARM 2D netbook launcher UI.
<NCommander> Oh,a rgh
<NCommander> [topic] StevenK to talk to seb about gnome-games refactoring.
<MootBot> New Topic:  StevenK to talk to seb about gnome-games refactoring.
<StevenK> But if that's the case (as persia says), then it's unneeded
<asac> NCommander: make that a "asac to blog about arm alpha-3 summary"
 * ogra pointed from planet to JamieBennett's blog entries for the two blogging items
<JamieBennett> I did something: http://www.linuxuk.org/2010/02/the-new-ui-for-arm-based-ubuntu-devices/
 * persia double-checks
<NCommander> Safe to go on?
<asac> NCommander: ad d the action i mentioned for me
<ogra> and wipe the two other blog actions
<NCommander> [topic] StevenK to fill up armel img with langs without busting i386
<MootBot> New Topic:  StevenK to fill up armel img with langs without busting i386
<asac> NCommander: and carry stevenk's item forward
<ogra> both done in some way
<NCommander> [action] asac to blog about arm alpha-3 summary
<MootBot> ACTION received:  asac to blog about arm alpha-3 summary
<asac> nevermind for StevenK's item ... go on
<asac> NCommander: ^
<asac> oh
<asac> StevenK: did the lang fill happen?
<StevenK> I started it on, and then got distracted
<asac> will that happen for a3?
<StevenK> I was going to do it today if images built, and then cheese was broken
<ogra> yeah
<ogra> no indication why though
<ogra> nothing notable on the ftbfs list
<persia> StevenK: Confirmed: gnome-games now only contains /usr/share/doc/gnome-games/* (and /var/lib/dpkg/info/gnome-games*)
<StevenK> ogra: Because it was split into multiple packages and the NEW ones landed in universe.
<ogra> ah
<ogra> k
<asac> oh ok
<StevenK> ogra: And UNE only builds from main
<ogra> right
<asac> did the promotion happen now?
<ogra> which is good :)
<StevenK> I promoted them like 12 hours ago?
<asac> i ask you ;)
<StevenK> No paperwork, no mess, just fix the archive
<ogra> tnhen tonights build should be fine again
<JamieBennett> \O/
<asac> ok, so lets carry that action forward
<NCommander> [action] StevenK to fill up armel img with langs without busting i386
<MootBot> ACTION received:  StevenK to fill up armel img with langs without busting i386
 * ogra doesnt think langpacks are that important atm
<ogra> we usually dont start to shuffle them before beta
<StevenK> Then we can leave it be, if you wish
<ogra> (historically)
<asac> i dont mind. if you say its better done at later time, scratch that item
<ogra> well, translations wont happen properly until the UIs are frozen anyway
<ogra> so they will still be inclomplete
<persia> Lets do translations later, because the size *will* vary a lot around UIFreeze
<ogra> right
<ogra> they are a good beta1 target
<asac> ok next?
<NCommander> [topic] asac to organize couple of sprints on thumb2 porting issues and get team attend/contribute
<MootBot> New Topic:  asac to organize couple of sprints on thumb2 porting issues and get team attend/contribute
<asac> we had one last week
<asac> we want to do that weekly
<ogra> first one happened and made us all look dumb :)
<asac> you also said we wanted another date, right?
<persia> Can we have the next one starting a little earlier in the day?
<ogra> (apart from dyfet who rocks wrt assembler)
<ogra> !
<asac> like one where we only work on stuff ... do we need that really? maybe we can make pairs that coordinate when they work together on their own?
<dmart> I linked an intro to ARM assembler from the porting wiki page now, in case anyone didn't see it.  Might help people get started.
<StevenK> If it's at the same time, I won't make it again
<asac> persia: i will try ... how many hours?
<ogra> how about 10:00 UTC ?
<asac> might be a bit bad for dyfet
<persia> asac: Even just 2-3 would make it better for me, but then I really just want to know someone is available to work around my inconfidence with assembler.
<dmart> Sprints are good, but if someone wants to have a go at this stuff at other times, I should still be availble on IRC some of the time.
<StevenK> 2-3 hours still makes it hard time of day for me to grok ASM
<asac> ok i will talk to you and StevenK after the meeting to see if there is any good time
<asac> right
<persia> asac: If you don't mind bad for you, I'm sure there's a time that works for dyfet, StevenK, and I.
<asac> well ;) ... dmart also might be good to have
<asac> if you want to organize a american/asia sprint outside of that its fine.
<persia> dmart: You're in UTC, right?
<dmart> yes
<dmart> I can be available occasionally later if that helps
<dyfet> And I could try to be early
<asac> ok i will find a time and schedule ;)
<persia> Right.  We'll discuss times later (in -arm)
<asac> talk to you
<asac> go on
<asac> standing items
<asac> NCommander: ?
<NCommander> [topic] Standing Items
<MootBot> New Topic:  Standing Items
<NCommander> (sorry, RL pulled me away for a sec)
<NCommander> [link] http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/canonical-mobile.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/canonical-mobile.html
<asac> [topic] http://macaroni.ubuntu.com/~pitti/workitems/canonical-mobile.html
<NCommander> [link] http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/canonical-mobile-lucid-alpha-3.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/canonical-mobile-lucid-alpha-3.html
<ogra> still broken link, sigh
<asac> the wiki poage is again wrong ;)
<asac> macaroni doesnt exist anymore
<JamieBennett> asac: no you are!
<JamieBennett> wiki is fine
<NCommander> ogra: I updated it this morning. Refresh
<JamieBennett> :)
<asac> JamieBennett: seems you fixed it ;)
<asac> i had macaroni here ;)
 * ogra too
<asac> ok
<JamieBennett> yeah, fast moving page
<ogra> :)
<JamieBennett> are there items there that stand out as problems?
<asac> i am behind.
<asac> thumb2 is blocked on two things: a) that we couldnt do the respin before a3 anymore
<asac> and lib-test
 * ogra still needs to finish the rootstock gui stuff ... working on it though and it will wipe the last three items from the spec
<asac> lightweight browser decision is pending a meeting with security team and robbie
<asac> and the webservice stuff needs to come after a3; at least email integration is a must imo. for office we might just follow what desktop team does
<JamieBennett> was a decision made there asac?
<plars> anything that can be done on those? both have 10 items with no start so far
<JamieBennett> (office)
<persia> I think we might need to just follow, because of FeatureFreeze.
<asac> StevenK: can we drop GNOME games refactored and split: TODO wi?
<asac> JamieBennett: we will try to go for chromium because of the performance
<StevenK> asac: Yes, persia has confirmed that desktop has already done it
<StevenK> We can't seed chromium until it's in main
<asac> StevenK: please update the blueprint then ;)
<JamieBennett> asac: what about the web office wi's
<ogra> desktop pull sOO.o back in
<asac> JamieBennett: but security update process is messy
<ogra> *pulls
<asac> JamieBennett: wanted to talk to you about that after meeting
<asac> not sure when you need to leave ;)
<StevenK> Yeah, we can't change components on a per-arch basis
<JamieBennett> I'm at the dentist after the meeting but I can do something later if your around
<StevenK> JamieBennett: Anything bad?
<JamieBennett> StevenK: checkup
<asac> i would still like to develop it and depending on how well it works either bring it in archive only or make it default on arm (but more likely the former as we are late)
 * JamieBennett notes dentist is always bad
<StevenK> Ah. I had one of those last week
<asac> JamieBennett: have fun ;)... i feel with you
<asac> ok thats it on the blueprints for me
<asac> lets move on
<asac> (if you have any blueprint you feel stuck with or are completely out of work items, just let me know offline)
<asac> ANNOUNCE: ^ ;)
<NCommander> [topic] Kernel Status (cooloney, ericm)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Kernel Status (cooloney, ericm)
<asac> ericm seems to be heroic ...
<ericm> so far, waiting for x0 to test the remaining issues on dove
<asac> attending on vacation
<asac> ericm: didnt you take the x0 with you after sprint?
<ogra> or just not a party animal :)
<ericm> asac, no - returned to Marvell office
<ericm> ogra, heh - you know me well
<ogra> :)
<asac> ericm: right. ok. but you got a confirm that one got shipped to you?
<ericm> asac, not yet - since all Marvell Shanghai office are on vacation, I'd expect to receive it next week
<ericm> I'd expect some of you may have received the board?
<asac> yes
<plars> yes
<asac> i got one ... NCommander got one, plars and GrueMaster ;)
<ericm> so the remaining issues seem to be suspend regression and hibernation issue
<asac> ericm: bug id?
<ericm> asac, wait
 * ogra points to https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/mobile-lucid-arm-per-soc-powermanagement
<asac> bug 516811 ?
<ericm> bug 509006
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 516811 in linux-mvl-dove "[dove] system hangs with resume after suspend" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/516811
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 509006 in linux-mvl-dove "[dove] hibernation failed to resume" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/509006
<asac> hmm
<ogra> bug 502983
<asac> ericm: both= or just the hibernation one?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 502983 in linux-mvl-dove "CONFIG_HIBERNATION needs to be set for dove kernels" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/502983
<ogra> oh, thats fix released
<ericm> asac, both - yet last time suspend/resume worked alright on X0
<ogra> NCommander, can you make sure the above two atre linked on the spec
<plars> yeah, the option for hibernate is available now, it just doesn't seem to resume the session
<NCommander> [action] NCommander to link power management spec to dove bugs
<MootBot> ACTION received:  NCommander to link power management spec to dove bugs
<asac> ericm: so do you need testing?
<ogra> i think i saw saeed work on it in #ubuntu-arm
<ericm> asac, and Marvell reported their hibernation works - so can possibly get this solved
<asac> ericm: right. seems you are already working with plars on that
<ericm> asac, yes
<ogra> he was developing a patch (with lool's help)
<ogra> seems the kernel sends a worng keypress event
<ericm> ogra, that's for the power button, i.e. pressing the power button to invoke the suspend/hibernation/shutdown/restart dialog box
<asac> ericm: ok good. keep us updated.
<ogra> ericm, ah
<ericm> asac, sure
<asac> anything else on dove ?
<ericm> kexec works now
<plars> nice
<asac> NCommander: please dont link all bugs to spec
<ericm> the latest issue with initramfs being incorrect I guess affects imx51 as well
<asac> NCommander: specs are for feature implementation
<asac> not to track bugs
<ericm> asac, I've updated all the information on bug 517841
<asac> if its a bug tracking spec, then we should have milestoned it with beta-1 or 2
<ubottu> Bug 517841 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/517841 is private
<ogra> asac, err, we used to do that all the time
<asac> ericm: yes. i think kexec is fixed now (according to ncommander)
<ericm> I've yet uploaded a kexec kernel for imx51, not sure if anyone has tested that as well
<ogra> thats why the specs have the "related bugs" function
<asac> ogra: we can discus that later. some bugs are ok. but not all bugs
<ericm> asac, which fix, link?
<ogra> asac, well, the *related* ones indeed :)
<asac> ericm: kexec being broken ;)
<asac> NCommander said its now working
<NCommander> It is
<asac> NCommander: so what about 517841?
<asac> ericm: why is that bug private?
<ericm> asac, per request by Marvell engineers .....
<asac> ok
<asac> ok lets move on
<asac> time is running low
<NCommander> [topic] ARM Application status (JamieBennett, dyfet)
<MootBot> New Topic:  ARM Application status (JamieBennett, dyfet)
<asac> NCommander: QA is first
<NCommander> [topic] QA Status (GrueMaster, plars)
<MootBot> New Topic:  QA Status (GrueMaster, plars)
<plars> I wanted to talk about possibly setting up an LP team to subscribe armel/UNE image related bugs against, similar to what we did with UNR last cycle
<plars> The purpose would mainly be for collecting and tracking bugs that we care about w.r.t. the une armel image
<plars> just wanted to see if anyone has strong opinions on this, or about what to name it
<asac> plars: why cant we use the armel tag for that?
<plars> my suggestion was ubuntu-armel-une or ubuntu-une-armel
<asac> otherwise i would just suggest to use ubuntu-armel ...
<plars> asac: the armel tag is used for *anything* found on armel
<asac> err ubnutu-mobile
<asac> sorry
<plars> asac: and ubuntu-armel is for bugs that are confirmed to be specific to armel, and things that the ubuntu-armel team is working on
<plars> asac: many of the bugs we want/need to track around the une image are not specific to armel at all, but we still care about them since we are the main consumers of the 2d une interface right now
<asac> plars: yes, ubuntu-mobile i mean. i think thats the best general purpose team suitable for high level apps concerning mobile
<plars> I'm fine with using ubuntu-mobile, but didn't want to go use that without agreement first
<asac> any objections?
<ogra> none
<asac> lets try that. if someone shows up complaining about bug spam, we can review
<plars> works for me
<plars> next?
<asac> GrueMaster: daily qa report?
<NCommander> [topic] ARM Application status (JamieBennett, dyfet)
<MootBot> New Topic:  ARM Application status (JamieBennett, dyfet)
<asac> NCommander: ring ring
<asac> ;)
<NCommander> asac: :-P
<ogra> GrueMaster is first :)
<asac> GrueMaster: still your turn
<asac> ;)
<GrueMaster> Testing lsb lib on imx51 to compare the results seen on dove karmic.
<GrueMaster> WIP.
<GrueMaster> daily testing of new UNE images.
<GrueMaster> What more can I say?
<asac> maybe prepare a summary of the daily testing next week on the wiki
<asac> you can add that to the meeting wiki before
<GrueMaster> I'm still waiting to hear from the Linux Foundation folks to see if our testing is good.
 * ogra would appreciate if QA could start rootstock tests after FF
<asac> like what days where the images good, what days they were broken
<asac> and if you find a bug on some day, maybe add that to that days column
<ogra> so i get some additional testing
<asac> ok
 * asac notes that
<asac> ogra: can you make a testplan
<asac> ?
<ogra> asac, sure, i'll do that next week and send it around
<asac> like a wiki page of combinations to test to hit a few corners?
<asac> ok
<asac> ok lets move on then
<ogra> mainly for oem-config tests and indeed rootstock itself
<Keybuk> GrueMaster: tangent, I'm testing UNE on i386 daily now
<GrueMaster> And that does what for armel?
<plars> ah, good to know :)
<davidm> Keybuk, is that the 3D version or the 2D version?
<asac> ok we are in "ARM Application status (JamieBennett, dyfet)"
<asac> now
<davidm> Keybuk, they are very different
<asac> any news on that front or can we skip that?
<JamieBennett> not sure if dyfet has anything to add about Thumb2 stuff but I see no major topics to raise
<plars> GrueMaster: if you see something that you are unsure if it is specific to armel or not, Keybuk should be able to tell you easily
<asac> ok lets move on
<GrueMaster> plars: I also have x86 images that I compare with.
<asac> NCommander: next topic ;)
<dmart> Stupid question, but can anyone point me to where the UNE images appear?  I haven't been able to find them.
<NCommander> [topic] ARM Porting/FTBFS status (NCommander, dyfet)
<MootBot> New Topic:  ARM Porting/FTBFS status (NCommander, dyfet)
<plars> GrueMaster: ok, good I didn't know you were testing it on both i386 and armel
<asac> dmart: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-netbook/
<asac> ther under ports
<dmart> asac, thanks
<ogra> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-netbook/ports/
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-netbook/ports/
<ogra> bah, to slow
<dmart> MOVING ON
<asac> NCommander: dyfet: persia: did you make some progress on thumb2 porting end last week=
<dmart> oops, caps lock
<asac> ?
<dyfet> yes we did
<dyfet> on lwp, and we did get the remaining boose blocker closed I think
<asac> persia: dyfet: i saw you worked together. very good. did that end in uploads? what packages?
<ogra> \o/
<dyfet> (boost)
<persia> asac: A bit, but not too much.  We picked a bad time, so I was slow, and dyfet was distracted.  I did manage to get one correct upload though.
<ogra> dyfet is a hero !
<NCommander> asac: been working on OOo, so nothing new to report, but I've been looking at a strange KDE buld failure with persia
 * ogra cant cheer enough 
<asac> NCommander: right i consider oOO to take some time, but i would think while its bulding you can help on thumb2 and ftbfs ;)
<asac> help on kde ftbfs is welcome
<ogra> NCommander, the kde stuff is muchly appreciated since it breaks rootstocks oem-config-kde
<asac> NCommander: maybe check if the kde issues corralate with the thum2 issues identified
<persia> ogra: It breaks lots of stuff :)
<ogra> persia, bah, i dont care about the other stiuff :P
<persia> asac: No, it's an issue with build-dep resolution.
 * persia cares about liquid
<NCommander> asac: its a problem of dependency installing. I enlisted persia to help me on this
<asac> err ... on what?
 * ogra just wears blinds 
<persia> asac: apt-get build-dep kdebindings fails.  manually installing all the build deps works.
 * persia is still trying to figure out why
<asac> anyway. lets move on. i think we are making progress (even if slow) on the porting stuff
<asac> persia: right. i didnt really refer to that one though ;)
<asac> just talked about general help on kde being good
<asac> NCommander: next topic?
<NCommander> [topic] ARM Image Status (ogra, persia)
<MootBot> New Topic:  ARM Image Status (ogra, persia)
<ogra> broken due to cheese :)
<ogra> but overall good
<asac> right. thats what i figure
<asac> not muhc to say there this week i think
<asac> next?
<ogra> thats it
<ogra> AOB i think
<asac> Ubuntu Liquid?
<ogra> oh, right
<asac> should we remove that from the standing items list?
<rbelem> :-)
<NCommander> [topic] Ubuntu Liquid
<MootBot> New Topic:  Ubuntu Liquid
<persia> Please do.
<asac> rbelem: do you want to keep this item in the meeting?
<asac> if not, just ping me when you want a slot back in
<asac> ian_brasil: ^^
<persia> I *think* we'll get a -meta and -default-setttings into lucid, but it won't be ideal, and we don't really want anyone to use it.
<rbelem> nope
<persia> Lots of upstream work and fiddling work happening (probably in a PPA) for the rest of the cycle, for a real release in lucid+1
<asac> [ACTION] NCommander to remove liquid from standing item list
<ian_brasil> asac, ok..we are targeting lucid +1 now anyway
<NCommander> [ACTION] NCommander to remove liquid from standing item list
<MootBot> ACTION received:  NCommander to remove liquid from standing item list
<NCommander> [topic] AOB
<MootBot> New Topic:  AOB
<asac> i have something, but if you have something go ahead first
<persia> I had a user ask about hildon-gtk Ubuntu Mobile today (and realise this is a frequent question).  Is there consensus that people interested in this area should be redirected to the Mer project?
 * NCommander is glad to have Mer take over hildon stuff
<asac> would we refuse contributions?
<ogra> is mer still existing now that there is meegoo ?
<asac> e.g. is there consent we want to get rid of hildon?
<rbelem> asac, nope
<asac> right
<ogra> asac, every looked at it ?
<ogra> *ever
<asac> so i dont think we should redirect them
<persia> asac: We can't do it right because of the libgtk variation.
<asac> rather catch them
<ogra> its painful
<rbelem> asac, it will be qt based
<asac> ok misunderstood rbelem's nope i think
<asac> so ok
<ogra> yeah, i think that nope was directed to me
<asac> ok so seems there is a consensus that we redirect ;)
<JamieBennett> asac: yes
<ogra> ++
<JamieBennett> for now until mer switches to QT
<rbelem> ++
<asac> so from my side i wanted to discuss to make the meeting more efficient.
<persia> Good.  Mind you, some mer folk are moving to Qt, but that's a different issue : at least their codebase works and is a basis for hacking :)
<ogra> we're only 6 min over time
<NCommander> If its clearer when to move topics, it would work better for me.
<asac> right
<ogra> :)
<asac> but i think the standing items could as well be filled in on the wiki up front
<asac> would it be ok for everyone owning those items to spend 10 minutes before the meeting to fill that in?
<ogra> and NCommander asking before switching topics would help too
<asac> then we can just make a standing items topic ... and raise points we want to discuss rather than getting a full status report typed in ;)
<asac> yes
<NCommander> ogra: I've done that plenty of times, no one answers
<ogra> even if we loose a minute per topic or so due to that it would be better structured
<asac> NCommander: so usually you should ask ... anything else? can we move on? etc.
<asac> and give folks a minute or so to move on
<ogra> right
<asac> its just messy to have interleaving topics discussed. that makes things go longer summed up in my feeling
<asac> so anyone has problems with filling in the status on his standing items?
 * GrueMaster would also like to see less non-essential chatter.
<asac> (i would take the work item standing item)
<asac> GrueMaster: right. we can try to remind ourselves everytime it happens
<ogra> nope, fine with that
<asac> but its tough ... also its not easy to see what is really essential
 * JamieBennett has to leave
<asac> what feels essential to you might feel non-essential for others and vice versa
<ogra> JamieBennett, good luck
<JamieBennett> :)
<asac> JamieBennett: good bye
<GrueMaster> I might be able to fill in the wiki if I had more that a few hours notice prior to the meeting.  I would request at least 24 hour notice.
<asac> ok thanks. i think we are over
<asac> [ACTION] everyone to fill in status on standing items for next week meeeting
<asac> NCommander: ^
<NCommander> [ACTION] everyone to fill in status on standing items for next week meeeting
<MootBot> ACTION received:  everyone to fill in status on standing items for next week meeeting
<asac> GrueMaster: notice?
<ogra> [ACTION] send out meeting reminders on time
<ogra> :)
<GrueMaster> Meeting notice.
<asac> GrueMaster: just add a reminder to your calendar
<ogra> yeah
<asac> you can get SMS and stuff like that
<ogra> gcal is great for that
<asac> for free
<GrueMaster> I do, but it is set to ping me 30 minutes prior (as a backup alarm).
<persia> (depending on your local telecommunications provider)
<ogra> though still, we used to have the mail some days earlier
<asac> GrueMaster: you can add more than one notification for each entry
<asac> i have one 1 day before and 10 minutes
<persia> Fridays might be a good day for the mail to be sent.
<asac> by default
<ogra> or add a specific reminder entry :)
<asac> and you can change that individually as well (for things like this meeting reminder)
<ogra> persia, ++
<asac> ok ... i think we are done
<GrueMaster> And is there a way to add the wiki links to this reminder?
<ogra> i think there is
<asac> good point
<persia> GrueMaster: Write a cron job that builds the link based on the date at runtime?
<asac> [ACTION] JamieBennett to include wiki links to friday reminder; ncommander to include wiki link in weekly reminder
<asac> NCommander: ^^
<NCommander> [ACTION] JamieBennett to include wiki links to friday reminder; ncommander to include wiki link in weekly reminder
<MootBot> ACTION received:  JamieBennett to include wiki links to friday reminder; ncommander to include wiki link in weekly reminder
<asac> ok ... lets finish... anything else?
<ogra> thanks
<asac> thanks all!
<NCommander> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 08:12.
<persia> cody-somerville cjohnston geser nixternal soren stgraber Meeting time
<cody-somerville> :)
 * stgraber waves
 * geser waves
<cjohnston> ?
<persia> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 09:00. The chair is persia.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<highvoltage> hi DMB o/
<persia> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperMembershipBoard/Agenda
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperMembershipBoard/Agenda
<geser> cjohnston: persia wanted to highlight cjwatson
<persia> cjohnston: Sorry.
<cjohnston> gotcha.. /me goes back to hiding.. np
 * persia fails
<persia> [TOPIC] Action Review
<MootBot> New Topic:  Action Review
<persia> DMB is now an admin of ~universe-contributors \o/
<persia> ScottK is still to start discussion on future of MOTU Council.  I'll start something if he doesn't.
<persia> TB confirmed MOTU spec, that DMB approves MOTUs, and that MOTU shall discuss MC.
<persia> Oh, and the email voting completed for statik, with permissions to be left as implemented at our last meeting.
<persia> [TOPIC] Chow Loong Jin for MOTU
<MootBot> New Topic:  Chow Loong Jin for MOTU
<hyperair> ohai
<geser> persia: do we need 3 or 4 DMB members for quorum?
<persia> 4, which we have (stgraber, cody-somerville, geser, persia)
<geser> right
<persia> hyperair: You say that you need to pay more attention to bugs in the Debian bug tracker.  Do you have any suggestions as to how these bugs can be made more visible to developers?
<hyperair> suggestions eh..
<hyperair> perhaps launchpad should show a list
<hyperair> or maybe just a bug count
<hyperair> similar to how packages.qa.debian.org/<pkg> does it
<cody-somerville> hyperair, Are you a proficient user of the bzr VCS?
<hyperair> i won't say i'm proficient
<hyperair> but i can commit
<hyperair> and view logs
<hyperair> and uncommit
<hyperair> =D
<hyperair> push and pull
<hyperair> the basic stuff necessary.
<hyperair> i think i knew how to do more with bzr, but i haven't done much with bzr in ages.
<hyperair> so i'm kind of rusty
<hyperair> i use git bzr for almost everything though, so there isn't any problem for me to interface with bzr repositories
<cody-somerville> hyperair, Whats your favorite patch system and why? If any, under what circumstances would you use a different patch system?
<hyperair> quilt
<hyperair> it's got the most functionality, i think
<hyperair> i've only tried three patch systems, i.e. quilt, cdbs, and dpatch
<hyperair> i think there aren't many others
<hyperair> if any
<persia> The others are either VCS-variants or generally derided :)
<hyperair> as for using a different patch system, i think it's only if the package was already using that patch system to begin with
<hyperair> and if i don't feel like making too many changes to begin with.
<persia> hyperair: Most of your work and many of your endorsements seem to be in specific areas (pkg-cli and applications you maintain).  Can you share why you choose to apply to join MOTU, rather than seeking for some pkg-cli access, or for packages you maintain?
<hyperair> most of my contributions are in these areas, but i don't think that should stop me from contributing in other areas.
<persia> Fair enough, so long as you understand that the set of packages to which MOTU grants upload access is only expected to be reduced over time (giving us more time to get them right :) )
<geser> hyperair: just curious: when looking at your sponsored package for lucid, I see only one. time issues or is there any other reason?
<hyperair> geser: there were some time issues, but mostly, since karmic was released, i've been trying to get my fixes into debian and then synced into ubuntu.
<geser> and did you succeed?
<hyperair> yes.
<hyperair> you can probably see banshee's upload changelog for an example. although all the packages were uploaded to debian, many of the entries by me have LP: # tags
<persia> Other questions for hyperair?
<cody-somerville> No, I'm ready to vote.
<persia> stgraber: geser ?
<stgraber> I'm ready to vote
<geser> no questions left
<persia> [VOTE] approve Chow Loong Jin for MOTU
<MootBot> Please vote on:  approve Chow Loong Jin for MOTU.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<ivajotha> I'm ready to vote
<MootBot> Private +1 vote received. 1 for, 0 against, 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<persia> +1 : I'm happy with the technical quality of the work I've seen, and always happy to have more volunteers to help with QA efforts.
<MootBot> +1 received from persia. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<geser> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from geser. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<stgraber> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from stgraber. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<highvoltage> yay
<cody-somerville> +1 Clear technical aptitude and sustained contribution.
<MootBot> +1 received from cody-somerville. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 5
<persia> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 5 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 5
<persia> Congratulations hyperair, and welcome!
<hyperair> ^_^ thanks everyone
<chrisccoulson> yay hyperair \o/
<cyphermox> congrats hyperair :)
 * hyperair high-fives chrisccoulson
<highvoltage> congrats and welcome hyperair
<hyperair> thanks =)
<ivajotha> thanksthanksthanksthanksthanks
<ivajotha> !!
<persia> [TOPIC] Bhavani Shankar for MOTU
<MootBot> New Topic:  Bhavani Shankar for MOTU
<coolbhavi> hi all
<cody-somerville> What does it mean to be an 87 edition Indian?
<persia> coolbhavi: You decline to answer what you like least.  As much as I agree Ubuntu is a wonderful environment, there must be at least one thing that is less excellent than everything else.
<coolbhavi> cody-somerville, i m 87 born :)
<cody-somerville> Ah.
<stgraber> Quickly looking at your wiki page, it seems like you mostly worked on sync/merges and fixing FTBFS. Did you also work on some "complete" packaging as in, packaging something from scratch ?
<coolbhavi> persia, being a physically challenged guy its great to be a part of the community
<persia> coolbhavi: Sure, but is there nothing that could be improved?
<coolbhavi> stgraber, None as of now but I have worked on ITA's in debian
<cody-somerville> coolbhavi, You seem to be in a lot of different teams; desktop, server, sound, uwn, boot, etc. Do you actively contribute in all of them?
<coolbhavi> persia, as I ve seen there is nothing
<coolbhavi> cody-somerville, yes but when time permits off my academics
<cody-somerville> 704 uploads to Ubuntu; how many of them would you say are sponsored uploads and how many are syncs?
<coolbhavi> cody-somerville, 350+ syncs 250+ merges
<persia> coolbhavi: Could you share your view on how python-carrot was affected by the new upstream version of python-stompy ?
<persia> (just to pick a recent sync at random)
<coolbhavi> persia, please bear with my slow typo
<persia> coolbhavi: No problem :)
<ari-tczew> +1 for coolbhavi @ MOTU ;-D
<coolbhavi> persia, yeah I look at the changes first and test build it and install it on my system before a sync and when time permits i do a test
<cody-somerville> I have to go now.
<persia> Other questions for coolbhavi
<persia> cody-somerville: Can we keep you another 20 minutes?
<coolbhavi> persia, and since my internet is around 10kpbs here testing packages out sometimes cause a real hindrance
<cody-somerville> persia, I might be able to squeeze it. I have an appointment to go to.
<persia> geser: stgraber cody-somerville: any more questions for coolbhavi ?
<cody-somerville> Nope.
 * persia tries to go quick-like to keep quorum
<stgraber> nope
<geser> nope
<persia> [VOTE] approve Bhavani Shankar for MOTU
<MootBot> Please vote on:  approve Bhavani Shankar for MOTU.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<persia> -1 Great level of involvement, but insufficient evidence of technical expertise
<MootBot> -1 received from persia. 0 for, 1 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -1
<cody-somerville> -1 Insufficient evidence of technical expertise
<MootBot> -1 received from cody-somerville. 0 for, 2 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -2
<cody-somerville> Great level of involvement though!
<geser> -1 based on the repeated feedback asking for more experience
<MootBot> -1 received from geser. 0 for, 3 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -3
<cody-somerville> Your work on syncs and merges is greatly appreciated.
<stgraber> -1 Would like to see more evidence of technical expertise (as in, from scratch packaging)
<MootBot> -1 received from stgraber. 0 for, 4 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -4
<persia> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 0 for, 4 against. 0 abstained. Total: -4
<persia> coolbhavi: Please keep up the good work: those endorsing you all seem to believe you can get there soon.
<persia> [TOPIC] Matt Trudel for MOTU
<MootBot> New Topic:  Matt Trudel for MOTU
<coolbhavi> :( okay thanks
<cyphermox> hi!
 * stgraber quickly looks at cyphermox LP page
<persia> cyphermox: What sort of work would you expect to be doing as a MOTU?
<stgraber> though I already know he's a great contributor, helped a lot with NM as asac mentioned. I met him in person a few times and completely forgot to leave a testimonial on his wiki page.
<persia> (as MOTU cannot upload in the desktop and server realms you identify as your interests)
<cyphermox> I feel there's a large number of packages that are part of what the motu team deals with, many of them requiring love badly, or at least every once in a while
<cyphermox> (looking up for the example)
<cyphermox> dvbsnoop
<cyphermox> is one I have worked on very recently
<stgraber> cyphermox: pastebinit ? ;) (though I'd have to release it first ...)
<cyphermox> that too :)
<cyphermox> I'm aware of the issue with being unable to upload NM, for example -- and I still have to work on a MIR for -pptp too :)
 * persia is very familiar with cyphermox from previous recent applications : do others have questions?
<stgraber> ready to vote
<geser> cyphermox: I see that you have only two endorsements, didn't you work with other people or didn't they have time to add an endorsement?
<cyphermox> well, i bugged stgraber a bit, and bdrung has uploaded some things I've done but I figured the two uploads (with little discussion about them) weren't necessarily warranting asking for an endorsement
<cyphermox> it's hard to approach somebody you've only "worked with" because an upload was sponsored and didn't really have issues.
<persia> cody-somerville: Just let us know when you have to dash: feel free to vote in advance if you're ready
<cody-somerville> -1 PPU permissions or package set permissions seem more appropriate at this time.
<persia> cody-somerville: And we won't need quorum for the last item.  Thanks for sticking around.
<cody-somerville> Cheers.
<highvoltage> cheers cody-somerville
<persia> geser: more questons?
<geser> no
<persia> [VOTE] approve Matt Trudel for MOTU
<MootBot> Please vote on:  approve Matt Trudel for MOTU.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<persia> +0 The technical skills shown are great, but I'd like to see more breadth of work for MOTU
<MootBot> Abstention received from persia. 0 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 0
<cody-somerville> -1 PPU permissions or package set permissions seem more appropriate at this time.
<MootBot> -1 received from cody-somerville. 0 for, 1 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now -1
<stgraber> +1 I believe his current work show the required technical skills to become a MOTU and believe that even though PPU would make sense for his current work. I think he'd be making good use of being a MOTU especially as he's deeply involved in the local community (that can clearly use another MOTU).
<MootBot> +1 received from stgraber. 1 for, 1 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 0
<geser> +0 missing some visible breadth on the touched packages I like to see for MOTU
<MootBot> Abstention received from geser. 1 for, 1 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 0
<persia> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 1 for, 1 against. 2 abstained. Total: 0
<persia> cyphermox: I'll send an email to the remaining members of the board for their votes.  Based on the last result, you should know within a week.
<cyphermox> alright
<cyphermox> thanks for hearing me :)
<persia> [TOPIC] Edubuntu Developers Deligation
<MootBot> New Topic:  Edubuntu Developers Deligation
<geser> cyphermox: if you are really interested on network-manager-*, try getting PPU rights for them
<cyphermox> geser, will do
<persia> highvoltage: For this, you need to apply to the Technical Board: we're powerless to help you.
<highvoltage> persia: Ah, I'm quite sure some wiki page said we must apply to the DMB
<persia> [TOPC] Select a chair for the next meeting
<geser> that answers my question if we are the right board for this
 * persia goes off to dig up the reference, hoping someone will volunteer to chair next time before we run out of time
<highvoltage> persia: but we will do so and I'll check that wiki page again and sees that it gets fixed
<persia> highvoltage: At the very bottom of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopers/TeamDelegation
<persia> geser: stgraber: which of you wants to chair next time?
<stgraber> I'll do it
<persia> Excellent.
<persia> [TOPIC] AOB
<MootBot> New Topic:  AOB
<persia> Anyone have anything so urgent it can't wait two weeks, and can be handled in two minutes?
<persia> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:01.
 * JFo waves
 * smb looks expectingly
 * cnd waves
 * jjohansen waves
 * JFo truffle shuffles
 * ogasawara waves
 * apw looks like someone else
<bjf> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 11:01. The chair is bjf.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<bjf> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<bjf> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Lucid
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Lucid
 * amitk slides in
<bjf> NOTE: '..' indicates that you are finished with your input.
 * manjo wazzzap
<bjf> There are no open action items from last week.
<bjf> [TOPIC] Release Metrics:
<MootBot> New Topic:  Release Metrics:
<JFo> Release Meeting Bugs (3 bugs, 2 blueprints)
<JFo> ===
<JFo> Alpha 3 Milestoned Bugs (25 bugs against all packages (down 10))
<JFo>  * 1 linux kernel bugs (no change)
<JFo>  * 3 linux-fsl-imx51 bugs (up 1)
<JFo>  * 0 linux-ec2 bug (no change)
<JFo>  * 2 linux-mvl-dove bugs (up 1)
<JFo> ===
<JFo> Release Targeted Bugs (132 bugs against all packages (down 1))
<JFo>  * 14 linux kernel bugs (up 3)
<JFo>  * 4 linux-fsl-imx51 bugs (up 2)
<JFo>  * 0 linux-ec2 bug
<JFo>  * 2 linux-mvl-dove bugs (up 1)
<JFo> ===
<JFo> Milestoned Features -
<JFo>  * 1 blueprint
<JFo>     * https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-lucid-new-kernel-on-lts (smb)
<JFo> ===
<JFo> Bugs with Patches Attached:107 (not counting Fix Committed)(no change)
<JFo> http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ogasawara/csv-stats/bugs-with-patches/linux/
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ogasawara/csv-stats/bugs-with-patches/linux/
<JFo> ..
<bjf> apw, any comments on any of that?
<apw> nope ta
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprints: kernel-lucid-bug-handling (JFo)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: kernel-lucid-bug-handling (JFo)
<bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-lucid-bug-handling
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-lucid-bug-handling
<JFo> No update, all items are still in progress.
<JFo> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprints: kernel-lucid-review-of-ubuntu-delta (apw)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: kernel-lucid-review-of-ubuntu-delta (apw)
<bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-lucid-review-of-ubuntu-delta
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-lucid-review-of-ubuntu-delta
 * cking saunters in late
<apw> Followed up on "under-discussion" patches, this led to four patches being
<apw> dropped as they are no longer required.
<apw> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprints: kernel-lucid-kernel-config-review (apw)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: kernel-lucid-kernel-config-review (apw)
<bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-lucid-kernel-config-review
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-lucid-kernel-config-review
<apw> Benchmarking pulling out PATA/SATA controllers appears to indicate there is a time penalty, we therefore need to look at the most common controllers to retain.
<apw> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprints: kernel-lucid-kms (sconklin / apw)
<bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-lucid-kms
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: kernel-lucid-kms (sconklin / apw)
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-lucid-kms
<apw> There is much discussion regarding the quality of KMS for ATI Radeon.  It seems that upstream is not interested in supporting KMS for ATI on 2.6.32.  So far we have only one confirmed broken card, and we may have a small patch stack to make that workable.  As we are already backporting Nouveau should we extend that to ATI; discussions continue.
<apw> ..
<sconklin> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprints: kernel-lucid-suspend-resume (manjo)
<bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-lucid-suspend-resume
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: kernel-lucid-suspend-resume (manjo)
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-lucid-suspend-resume
<manjo> I am reworking patch as per amitk's comments
<manjo> will submit soon
<manjo> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprints: kernel-lucid-apparmor-development (jjohansen)
<bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-lucid-apparmor-development
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: kernel-lucid-apparmor-development (jjohansen)
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-lucid-apparmor-development
<jjohansen> Testing newest update atm, new post going out today, and pull request going out
<jjohansen> today.  Fixes Bug #496110, Bug #507069, and Fix of locking bug
<jjohansen> Also fixed Bug #131976
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 496110 in linux "AppArmor oops when loading an empty profile" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/496110
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 507069 in linux "aa-status is wrong for unconfined processes" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/507069
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 131976 in apparmor "apparmor doesn't work on stacked file system (livecd) -- DHCP/cups/others fail to start" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/131976
<jjohansen> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprints: kernel-lucid-boot-performance (apw, csurbhi)
<bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-lucid-boot-performance
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: kernel-lucid-boot-performance (apw, csurbhi)
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-lucid-boot-performance
<apw> We remain around the 1.6s to rootfs mark.  We have one outstanding bug to do with new locking to protect USB strings which have become mutable as a result of the introduction of wireless USB hubs.  Patches to fix this issue using RCU techniques are in testing.
<apw> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Other Release Tasks: Lucid Audio Support (bjf)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Other Release Tasks: Lucid Audio Support (bjf)
<bjf> I've rolled the alsa c-o-d for karmic as well as lucid in the last
<bjf> week. It's obvious that they are being used, which is good news.
<bjf> That's all.
<bjf> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Other Release Tasks: Lucid Better Power Mgt (amitk)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Other Release Tasks: Lucid Better Power Mgt (amitk)
<amitk> nothing new to report (caught up with some other things)
<amitk> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Other Release Tasks: EC2 Lucid Kernel Status (jjohansen)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Other Release Tasks: EC2 Lucid Kernel Status (jjohansen)
<jjohansen> Looking good we had a small update regression last week that should be fixed now Bug #520015 (haven't tested)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 520015 in linux-meta-ec2 "bad dependencies on karmic linux-ec2, linux-image-ec2" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/520015
<jjohansen> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Status: Lucid (apw)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Status: Lucid (apw)
<apw> Lucid is now updated to stable v2.6.32.8 and to include a couple more [sigh] Ironlake patches.  Light testing it seems no worse than previously.
<apw> Progress was pretty good over the sprint week with us tending towards the trend-line (ie. catching up).  Most of the prime features seem on track, graphics is still problematic.
<apw> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Security & bugfix kernels - Karmic/Jaunty/Intrepid/Hardy/Others (gnarl/smb)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Security & bugfix kernels - Karmic/Jaunty/Intrepid/Hardy/Others (gnarl/smb)
<smb> Dapper:      2.6.15-55.82  (security)
<smb> Hardy:       2.6.24-27.65  (security)
<smb> Intrepid:    2.6.27-17.45  (security)
<smb> Jaunty:      2.6.28-18.59  (security)
<smb> Karmic:      2.6.31-19.56  (security)
<smb>              2.6.31-20.57  (proposed)[8]  5/18 verifications done (+1)
<smb>  - LBM       2.6.31-20.22  (proposed)[8]  0/ 2 verifications done
<smb>  - mvl-dove  2.6.31-211.22 (security)
<smb>              2.6.31-211.23 (waiting for acceptance)
<smb>  - fsl-imx51 2.6.31-108.21 (security)
<smb>              2.6.31-108.22 (waiting for acceptance)
<smb>  - ec2       2.6.31-304.10 (security)
<smb>              2.6.31-304.11 (waiting for acceptance)
<smb> Not much more to say this week.
<smb> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Incoming Bugs: Regressions (JFo)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Incoming Bugs: Regressions (JFo)
<JFo> Incoming Bugs
<JFo> 130 Lucid Bugs (up 8)
<JFo> Current regression stats (broken down by release):
<JFo> == regression-potential (down 1) ==
<JFo> 38 lucid bugs
<JFo> == regression-update (no change)==
<JFo> 9 karmic bugs
<JFo> 5 jaunty bugs
<JFo> 2 intrepid bugs
<JFo> 1 hardy bug
<JFo> == regression-release (down 1)==
<JFo> 55 karmic bugs
<JFo> 22 jaunty bugs
<JFo> 11 intrepid bugs
<JFo> 4 hardy bugs
<JFo> == regression-proposed (no change)==
<JFo> 1 karmic bug
<JFo> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Incoming Bugs: Bug day report (JFo)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Incoming Bugs: Bug day report (JFo)
<JFo> A gentle reminder that today is Kernel BugDay. If you have any spare cycles, your help would be greatly appreciated.
<JFo> The information on this weeks bug focus (suspend resume bugs) is available at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/BugDay/20100216
<JFo> Last week's bug day was postponed due to the previous week's Platform Sprint.
<JFo> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Open Discussion or Questions: Anyone have anything?
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open Discussion or Questions: Anyone have anything?
<apw> REMINDER: 4 weeks to freeze
<bjf> thanks everyone
<bjf> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 11:14.
<apw> bjf thanks
<JFo> thanks bjf
<cking> blink and it's over
<smb> ta
<jjoani> sudo su
<jjoani> hola  atodos
<soy_tu_padre> hi
<soy_tu_padre> bye
<soy_tu_padre> :D
 * MagicFab warms up
<hobgoblin> hola
<Guest90507> aqui llegando para el reconocimiento del foro como team oficial de ubuntu
<fetova> Guest90507, te recomendaria poner tu nick ;)
 * fetova waves
<fetova> :P
<Guest90507> lo puse pero me lo vot quien sabe por que
<Guest90507> entro con el mismo usuario del foro
<Guest90507> pero me lo vota
<Guest90507> deja entro de nuevo
<fetova> mejor conversamos en privado... aca se habla en ingles ;)
<Guest90507> para ver que es lo que pasa
<fetova> ok
<testing> test...
<pvandewyngaerde> test
<fetova> [13:50] -NickServ- This nickname is registered. Please choose a different nickname, or identify via /msg NickServ identify <password>.
<fetova> was that
<paco> ya esta
<paco> solo cambie el nick name por otro
<fetova> ok, hope will be fine
<paco> ya no falta mucho
<jorgevazq> paco: nope
<jorgevazq> brb
<czajkowski> Aloha
<fetova> czajkowski, hi :)
<svaksha> czajkowski: hi
<Toluxero> czajkowski: hi :)
<jean7491> hello, good evening
<czajkowski> all early :) good stuff
<pvandewyngaerde> hi
<fetova> :)
<Toluxero> jean7491: good afternoon here in Mexico :P but good evening...
 * MagicFab brandishes the Quebec flag
<czajkowski> popey: JanC itnet7  meeting time
 * fetova the mexican one :D
<JanC> yep, I'm here
<czajkowski> lovely
<czajkowski> huats will be a little late
<mongolito404> Hi
 * komputes is here to show support for ubuntu-qc
<cyphermox> komputes, MagicFab: \o/
<JanC> popey: ping ?
<czajkowski> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoCouncilAgenda Agenda
<czajkowski> we need more than JanC and myself here though..
<dupondje> i'm here also :)
 * DuCkNeT is here also to support ubuntu-qc
 * jamesjedimaster is here to support for ubuntu-mx
 * Toluxero is here to support for ubuntu-mx
<fetova> jamesjedimaster, Toluxero  :P
<MagicFab> ah, the agony :)
 * Gargadon is here to support for ubuntu-mx
<Gargadon> hehehehe...
<fetova> :P
<paco> ya
<Toluxero> Gargadon: wow, you're here, I'am surprised!
 * fetova is nervious... :P
<czajkowski> fetova: no need to be
<czajkowski> we just need more of us here, just give us a few mins
<czajkowski> people probably having pancakes :)
<fetova> xD
<Toluxero> plop
<Toluxero> xD
<fetova> i want! :P
<czajkowski> while we are waiting are there any questions regarding the RE approval process ??
<paco> si el foro es soporte en espaÃ±ol
<fetova> sorry, i need to practice more my english, have me patience :)
<czajkowski> fetova: that;s ok :)
<paco> por que todos escriben en ingles
 * MagicFab hugs akgraner fetova asac brettalton cjwatson cody-somerville czajkowski dinda DuCkNeT elky formolQC highvoltage jcastro Joeb454 jpds kees kirkland komputes mdeslaur  mvo  NCommander  nijaba ogasawara ogra pleia2 RoAkSoAx shang Snowrunner stgraber swe3tdave zul
<czajkowski> MagicFab: yay *hugs*
<brettalton> MagicFab: yaay, why me?
<MagicFab> brettalton, side effect
<komputes> I loves me some hugs
<fetova> paco, el idioma oficial del canal es ingles, necesitas ayuda?
<meraz> im here supporting for ubuntu-mx
 * Snowrunner cheers at MagicFab
<fetova> :P
<akgraner> MagicFab, *hugs* rock :-) thanks!
 * formolQC cheers for Ubuntu QC
<paco> creo que si un poco
<Toluxero> meraz: o/ partner
<paco> no se mucho de ingles
 * RoAkSoAx *hugs* MagicFab back :P
<MagicFab> Y donde estÃ¡ la barra del mx ??
 * mdeslaur is here for Ubuntu QC
<shang> yeah~ QC
 * shang hugs MagicFab 
 * shang shang_QC
<pmatulis> if ubuntu qc joins we'll need to have a special clause that will prevent "separation"
<DuCkNeT> w00t w00t QC
 * swe3tdave cheers for Ubuntu QC
<cyphermox> pmatulis, nice ;)
<Toluxero> MagicFab: here! de mexico mi estimado
<jamesjedimaster> MagicFab: aqui de mx tambien
<highvoltage> heh, thanks MagicFab!
<paco> es que stoy intentando instalar el sistema ubuntu en mi lap
<paco> pero se traba
<Gargadon> paco: pues entra a los canales de soporte
<MagicFab> Viva MÃ©xico :D
<fetova> paco, de donde eres?
<fetova> MagicFab, \o/
<highvoltage> what meeting is this?
<paco> mexico
<komputes> pmatulis: like a prenuptial agreement?
<MagicFab> highvoltage, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoCouncilAgenda
<paco> vengo del foro ubuntumexico.org
<fetova> metete a #ubuntu-mx
<pmatulis> komputes: anything, just write it down
<fetova> en el canal nos cuentas que te pasa ;)
<MagicFab> we're relaxing while all the voting parties arrive
<MagicFab> luis_lopez, ~o~
<luis_lopez> MagicFab: yo!
<fetova> :D
<Toluxero> paco: el canal de ayuda es #ubuntu-mx este es un canal internacional para juntas :D
<paco> ok
<MagicFab> paco, en #ubuntu-co tambiÃ©n te ayudan
<paco> thank's ya entre a mx
<paco> thank's
<pmatulis> shouldn't we be working?
<fetova> :P
<MagicFab> czajkowski, remind us who is missing to start the meeting ?
<czajkowski> MagicFab: there is only myself and JanC here at present, we need at least 3 if not 4 to vote.
<czajkowski> MagicFab: popey hutes and itnet7 and keffie-jax
<czajkowski> so I think right now, rather than delaying folks, we're going to have to reschedule
<MagicFab> so we need 3 of them to come by :(
<czajkowski> I'm sorry
<czajkowski> if anyone has any questions myself and JanC are here to answer
<czajkowski> but there isn't any oint in going through the applications as there can't be any voting done
<itnet7> here now sorry
<czajkowski> ok so we have 3
<czajkowski> whoo
<czajkowski> making progress
<jamesjedimaster> good
<jono> who from the council is not here?
<czajkowski> jono: popey hutes and keffie
<jono> hmmm
<cjohnston> :-(
<czajkowski> huats will be on later
<jono> this is not good
<czajkowski> he had said he'd be late
<jono> were they aware of the meeting?
<jono> popey, are you around?
<JanC> s/hutes/huats/
<JanC> huats said he might be late because an important IRL meeting at work
<jono> it seems like there is just not enough members to join
<czajkowski> we still need a 4th I think due to there being 6 of us
<jono> how many members are here?
<czajkowski> so again, sorry about this, but if anyone has any questions relating to loco issues
<czajkowski> or re approval we're here
<itnet7> o/
<czajkowski> jono: me itnet7 and JanC
<jono> two of your?
<jono> ahhh three
<itnet7> Sorry had to put out some fire's for work
<jono> ok you need one more member
<czajkowski> jono: aye
<komputes> jono: ubuntu member and ubuntu-qc member here o/
<jono> so maybe you can all vote and then follow up on the list
<jono> that will be a good use of the time
<JanC> maybe if huats shows up later..., we can start to look at the approvals already
 * komputes agrees - can we vote now so I can eat
<jono> sorry folks I need to run to the airport
<komputes> jono: ciao
<jono> I recommend council members vote here and then follow up on the list with missing members
<itnet7> safe travels
<jono> ok, later all
<czajkowski> ok
<czajkowski> jono: safe travels
<JanC> also, I can't vote on re-approval of my own team, so we actually need 2 more for that  ;)
<czajkowski> ok
<DuCkNeT> janc: can we still proceed with the other 2 approval ?
<czajkowski> lets start with  the Quebec LoCo
<czajkowski> and we can work on things that way
<czajkowski> ok
 * MagicFab -> fireworks
<czajkowski> So who here is from Quebec
 * Snowrunner_QC cheers for Ubuntu-QC
<komputes> o?
<cyphermox> o/
 * swe3tdave cheers for Ubuntu QC
<komputes> o/
 * DuCkNeT cheers for quebec
<Snowrunner_QC> o/
 * DuCkNeT is here
<DuCkNeT> for quebec
<MagicFab> luis_lopez, ^ shang_QC pmatulis and others too :)
<luis_lopez> o/
<DuCkNeT> hum.. ubuntu-qc
<czajkowski> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QuebecTeam/ApprovalApplication
 * itnet7 looks over the App/Team Wiki
<pmatulis> o/
 * shang_QC cheers for Ubuntu-QC
<czajkowski> so who from the  Quebec would like to tell us about some of the stuff you've been doing
<czajkowski> ?
<komputes> czajkowski: well Fabian has started the Ubutnu Hour, let him talk about that
<komputes> then I will talk about globaljam
<komputes> MagicFab: floor is yours
<czajkowski> ok
<czajkowski> sounds good
<swe3tdave> then i will talk about ubuntu drupal
 * DuCkNeT rolling the red carpet
<MagicFab> Yes, we've come up with some simple but effective ways to do more with less people
<MagicFab> komputes, and cyphermox here have been stars at the last Global Jam
<MagicFab> and we're gearing up for another good one
<cyphermox> yep :)
<komputes> I was one of the organizers of the first Ubuntu-QC Global Bug Jam last year, and will be organizing the second one this year.
<czajkowski> MagicFab: yes we've even taken a leaf out of you book and running our own. great idae.
 * komputes is checking member count for the LoCo
<czajkowski> Idea
<MagicFab> we have great people in Quebec joining our parties - like stgraber (who just made it in the Ubuntu tech board) and all his colleagues from Revolution linux
<itnet7> Your LoCo has done some extraordinary work!!
<czajkowski> yes well done
<MagicFab> I'd say our main activity is social stuff - we network. This was mostly visible during the recent tou.tv advocacy sprint for Ubuntu support of a webtv site
<czajkowski> can you tell me a bit more about that please?
<Snowrunner_QC> that was amazing!
<MagicFab> So the team is small but I believe we have great impact
<komputes> Ubuntu-QC has  89  active members
<MagicFab> well, Radio Canada, state-run TV + broadcast organization launched a huge site for their webtv (40 thounsand+ fans in Facebook)
<JanC> http://www.fabianrodriguez.com/blog/2010/02/10/thank-you-ubuntu-qc-and-facebook/ --> nice work
<MagicFab> well, huge as per our context
<MagicFab> unfortunately only Flash, and untested in Linux. Our team list picked that up quickly, organized, and pressured into addressing this.
<komputes> I have found that Quebec is a great place to find people who agree with the free software ideology. With more events we will gather many new members in no time.
<MagicFab> I believe community events and simple, visible, tangible efforts like that bring out the best Ubuntu has to all - we plan on keeping doing that.
<czajkowski> ok so on your roadmap you mention double your numbers, how do you see this happening??
<Snowrunner_QC> I must add that this advocacy is the last event of a long struggle against Radio-canada, their website never was linux friendly.
<MagicFab> czajkowski, social networking on sites like Facebook, identi.ca, and in-person-events.
<JanC> any plans for events to try to reach people who don't know Ubuntu & open source yet?
<cyphermox> If I may answer that one :)
<czajkowski> sure
<komputes> Word of mouth and events i find are very effecting in having growing numbers in the LoCo
<MagicFab> We also have great visibility in local media - the Ubuntu "regular users" here in Quebec are hiding but we'll find them . Our FB group brought 400 together which is way more than the 89 we have in LP right now.
 * DuCkNeT proud to be on ubuntu-qc team for what they have done so far
<cyphermox> Out global jam event is held (and should be again) in a university
<czajkowski> cyphermox: you make channels highlight when I'm not around :)
<MagicFab> So I think double is even low.
<cyphermox> we work with the local LUG and user groups to get this known by a larger body of people
<cyphermox> I do usually try to get the release parties advertised by local newspapers, but so far without much luck
<czajkowski> cyphermox: very hard to get local paper s involved I find
<cyphermox> indeed
<MagicFab> As you can see ubuntu QC is much more than just me :D
<komputes> We also have many memvers who are part of bugcontrol which helps.
<fetova> thats wonderful, MagicFab :D
<czajkowski> MagicFab: that is is!
<Snowrunner_QC> About release party, they are often in a 3 floors pub, and people always come asking question on the release party floor about ubuntu.
<DuCkNeT> also members in the testing.... <----
<czajkowski> So is there anything else you'd like to tell us about your LoCo ?
<Snowrunner_QC> we rock! ;)
<MagicFab> yes, our parties are known as *the* place to network around Linux :D
<DuCkNeT> we do rock
<czajkowski> heh good stuff
<komputes> enough of patting our own backs, but really, we do really rock
<MagicFab> czajkowski, as a France-born Colombian living in Quebec since 1989, I am very proud this would be recognized as an official team :)
<czajkowski> that;s a great thing MagicFab
<czajkowski> ok so I think we're ready to vote
<MagicFab> but many others drive it where it is.
<swe3tdave> lets not forget all the work we did on the web site has been used to create Ubuntu Drupal, other teams are now using and contributing to our code.
<czajkowski> just to note, while JanC itnet7 and i can vote , we need to get the others to vote, so we will take it to the list afterwards,
<MagicFab> swe3tdave is right, many Loco teams now have "turnkey" website thanks to the Drupal Theme he initially started :D
<czajkowski> I think you guys are doing a great job, and look forward to reading more about you  +1
<czajkowski> itnet7: JanC
 * Snowrunner_QC cheers
<itnet7> +1 absolutely
<itnet7> very good work!
<JanC> +1 from me
<czajkowski> and with that we shall pass this information ont the loco council mailing list and get back to you this week. Ok
 * MagicFab pour Aguardiente - throws a cup over his shoulder for the other teams
<fetova> gratz! :D
<czajkowski> okie dokie
<komputes> thank you guys - good luck to ubuntu-mx!
<MagicFab> czajkowski, np - thank you! And thanks to all who cheered for the team - you rock!
<fetova> ty! :D
<Snowrunner_QC> thank you!
<czajkowski> ok so who's here for Mexico
<fetova> me!
<czajkowski> Aloha :)
<fetova> Aloha
 * MagicFab installs the Quebec flag in the hall, awaiting official confirmation
<jamesjedimaster> me from mx
<fetova> :P
<czajkowski> fetova: is it just  you?
<czajkowski> oh 2nd person also good.
 * Toluxero from mx
<fetova> nope
 * Gargadon too, from mexico
<JanC> ubuntu-qc: maybe you can do more at places that are less likely to know Ubuntu already, but I know sometimes that's also dependent on opportunities  âº
 * jorgevazq form mexico
<jorgevazq> *from
<jamesjedimaster> hahaha he's nervous
<Snowrunner_QC> JanC, yes, will do!
<jorgevazq> yeah, and kinda cold... isn't supposed to be this cold here :S
<MagicFab> JanC, ack that
<czajkowski> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuMxTeam/ApprovalApplication
<czajkowski> ok so let us continue with Mexico
<fetova> sorry, i'm at work now... this is hard :P
<fetova> ready :)
<fetova> shoot :P
<meraz> here i am
<czajkowski> ok so can you tell me a bit about your LoCo
<czajkowski> how you get things done?
<jorgevazq> excuse me in advance, I'm at webchat right now, so I may experience problems... pidgin is trying to fly over the Firewall
<jorgevazq> all ready
<czajkowski> jorgevazq: ok :)
<meraz> hi there jorgevazq
<fetova> ok...
<Toluxero> jorgevazq: :)
<itnet7> jorgevazq: lol
<fetova> we have sub teams to work
<paco> I am already here
<fetova> we have a artwork team
<fetova> a doc team...
<fetova> mentoring, podcast :D
<fetova> marketing
<meraz> support team too
<czajkowski> you have  a large break down of teams, are there many in each teams, and how do you get people to take part ?
<meraz> off course lol
<fetova> all be small teams
<jorgevazq> czajkowski: the largest team would be podcasting
<fetova> and we try to involve the people on them
<fetova> seeing what they do
<fetova> example
<fetova> someone ask a lot of faq...
 * JanC remembers ubuntu-be "stole" one of ubuntu-mx's members recently  ;)
<fetova> we try to involve him on the doc team to apport ideas
<fetova> really? :(
<jorgevazq> fetova: focus
<fetova> ok...
<JanC> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-be/2009-December/006194.html
<fetova> i see...
<fetova> well...
<fetova> a permanent work on ubuntu-mx is...
<fetova> get the people together
<jorgevazq> get people's ideas and make them work
<fetova> a lot of people know ubuntu, use ubuntu... spread ubuntu...
<czajkowski> ok and in the past, I'm only seeing 4 events listed
<czajkowski>  all in 2008 what happened in 2009
<jorgevazq> in 2009 we had the H1N1 situation
<jorgevazq> which... kinda stopped several events from happening, such as FLISoL
<czajkowski> jorgevazq: why aren't these on the wiki page ?
<czajkowski> were there no other meet ups?
<jorgevazq> some of them were
<jorgevazq> we actually had presence in events in universities, but failed to collect proof
<jorgevazq> besides, the podcast project started in 2009
<JanC> jorgevazq: you can list them without proof too
<jorgevazq> from scratch
<jorgevazq> JanC: didn't know about it ;)
<fetova> good to know :)
<JanC> and for the future you can ask people to write (short) reports of such events
<jorgevazq> JanC: good to know, what happened is that th organizing staff of several events
<czajkowski> yes like add a blog post on an event or an update to your reports
<jorgevazq> such as FESoL, promised to email us the pictures... but haven't had the time to do so
<jorgevazq> czajkowski: what we were thinking was to mention those activities "on air" in the podcast
<czajkowski> jorgevazq: great idea, don't get me wrong, but it'd be nice to see them listed on the wiki.
<JanC> it doesn't have to be staff, everybody present can make a blog post or whatever
<jamesjedimaster> but it's a good idea to have them on the forum
<jorgevazq> czajkowski: ok, we'll do our best to keep our wiki updated from now on ;)
<czajkowski> jorgevazq: thank you
<jorgevazq> FYI: we do have pictures on FESoL 2009, just failed to put the exact date (is the last event marked)
<jorgevazq> anyway... we also had several organizational improvements on 2009
<jorgevazq> an example would be the creation of ubuntu-mx-council, which we believe have helped to quicken the entire process of getting things done
<jorgevazq> ubuntu-mx-council is actually composed by the LoCo Leader (fetova) and 3 team leaders
<jorgevazq> but once other projects take off, then their leaders will also be invited to become part of the council
<itnet7> I would like to see more clearer documentation and some photos, I do think that all of you are dong a good job though
<JanC> ubuntu-mx: we'd like to propose that you come back next month with more activities listed
<itnet7> I agree with JanC !
<czajkowski> you've done some good, work, but think your wiki could do with some more activities on it
<czajkowski> do come back next month please
<jamesjedimaster> ok, we will work on it
<jorgevazq> ok, we'll do
<czajkowski> Thank you
<jorgevazq> anyway its just a matter of listing what we have already done
<fetova> ok, we will work more on the wiki :)
<JanC> for example I also see on your site you have sort of a local distribution network for CDs (from what I understand) which isn't listed on the wiki page either?
<fetova> yeah, we have it :)
<Toluxero> JanC: czajkowski too much info is posted into the forum.
<czajkowski> Toluxero: forum is not the wiki page
<JanC> Toluxero: okay, so link to that from the wiki page too  âº
<czajkowski> ok
<czajkowski> so moving on please
<czajkowski> ok so next up is the Belgian LoCo https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BelgianTeam/ReapprovalApplication2010
<fetova> well... thanks :)
<czajkowski> 1st reapproval to be done
<czajkowski> :)
<czajkowski> who here is from Belgian LoCo ?
<jean7491> yes
 * mongolito404 is from Belgium
<czajkowski> jean7491: aloha!
<JanC> o/ (which means I won't comment of course)
 * rulus is a Belgian Being too :)
 * zuzuzzzip is also from Belgium
<czajkowski> right so
<pvandewyngaerde1> hello from belgium
<czajkowski> this is the application https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BelgianTeam/ReapprovalApplication2010
<czajkowski> nice work
 * MagicFab offre un peu de caribou aux amis belges :)
<czajkowski> you do a lot of work at different events, how do you  organise it. how do you get people to take part? you've come  a long way since 1st setting up,, how have you changed or done things differently in that time
<itnet7> You all have done some outstanding work!
<czajkowski> MagicFab: send me white chocolate!
<jean7491> 1st is the activation of an events team ...
<itnet7> good show of support!
<jean7491> looking for events and contacting people to find local coordinators
<pvandewyngaerde1> and enthusiastic people with lots of time in weekends
<jorgevazq> if you excuse me, I'm currently in class... shouldn't even be chatting
<jean7491> and looking for ad-hoc local teams with volunteers (and entousiastic people
<jean7491> 2d thing for the events team is to look where it is posible to work with other groups - clubs
<czajkowski> nods
<itnet7> Your team seems good in the collaboration dept. taking part in Fossdem, and your other listed projects
<jean7491> so we were able to organize a lot of events and projects ...
<jean7491> like fosdem or international fair in ghent, thanks local contact
<czajkowski> yes your team was very present at FOSDEM
<czajkowski> How do you think you'll still draw new people in? to take part?
<jean7491> yes , but fosdem is not my personal level, i'm only end-user
<JanC> several team members are also FOSDEM organizers, so we actually lose some possible volunteers for our booth there  ;)
<czajkowski> hehe
<czajkowski> well they get bonus points for running fosdem so!
<czajkowski> :)
<czajkowski> ok again we cannot vote on this properly
<itnet7> I think I'm ready to vote, czajkowski ?
<itnet7> Yeah
<czajkowski> but I think you guys are doing a great job
<czajkowski> +1 from me
<JanC> for finding possible volunteers we ask people on the forums & on our support points map
<Nun--> it's here and now the event UbuntuMx Loco team?
<itnet7> +1 from me also, as before we will have to wait on the mailing list
<itnet7> Ubuntu-be is doing really great things!!!
<czajkowski> ok
<czajkowski> thanks to all those who came sorry it took a while to kick off
<JanC> maybe other locoteams using drupal for their site will be interested in the new supports point map that will be a drupal module
<czajkowski> for  Quebec and belgium we shall get in touch with you this week
<itnet7> I would really like to apologize for holding everyone/anyone up
<czajkowski> mexico see you next month
<czajkowski> with that I've to dash off to another meeting
<itnet7> Defiinitely looking forward next meeting!
<jean7491> thanks czajkowski and other members, bye
<itnet7> bye jean7491 !
<pvandewyngaerde1> thanks
<zuzuzzzip> cya
<mongolito404> bye
<fetova> thanks czajkowski
<huats> sorry for the late arrival...
<huats> already finished ?
<zuzuzzzip> yes huats
<huats> zuzuzzzip, thanks
<fetova> see ya
<Nun--> Bueno, como dijo el chupacabras.. me marcho.
#ubuntu-meeting 2010-02-17
<zul> morning
<Daviey> (afternoon)
<nijaba> o/
<kirkland> o/
<ttx> _o
<nijaba> ttx: you look a little flat today...
<alexm> o/
<ogra> nijaba, he was grepping in his coffee, probably he burned his fingers while searching for strings in hot liquid :)
<Daviey> \o
<kirkland> nijaba: he's making a right turn on a motorcycle
 * nijaba shows ttx where the turn signal switch is located on the handle
<jjohansen> \o
<mathiaz> ~^O^~
<zul> ooOOoo
<jiboumans> smoser, ping
<jiboumans> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 08:00. The chair is jiboumans.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<smoser> here
<jiboumans> good afternoon folks (or morning if you're so inclined)
<mathiaz> *morning*
<jiboumans> today's scribe will be mathiaz (well volunteered, thanks)
<jiboumans> [TOPIC] Action points from last meeting
<MootBot> New Topic:  Action points from last meeting
<jiboumans> [ACTION] zul to forward issues about ctbd to jelmer to see if those can be lifted before FF
<MootBot> ACTION received:  zul to forward issues about ctbd to jelmer to see if those can be lifted before FF
<zul> done
<zul> opened bugs in debian
<jiboumans> zul: so worst case, ctdb doesn't make it into main?
<zul> yes thats the worst case
<jiboumans> alright. i can live with that
<jiboumans> ACTION: zul to do another call to action for the apport hooks involvement
<zul> done
<zul> see the blog post on planet ;)
<jiboumans> :) any volunteers?
<nijaba> zul: url?
<zul> http://zulcss.wordpress.com/2010/02/17/apport-for-ubuntu-server/
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://zulcss.wordpress.com/2010/02/17/apport-for-ubuntu-server/
<jiboumans> ACTION: kirkland to propose a karmic fix for bug 503180 in PPA
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 503180 in eucalyptus "[SRU] eucalyptus-cloud doesn't reply to requests (eucalyptus doesn't work after reboot or services restart issues due to upstart networking behavior)" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/503180
<kirkland> jiboumans: done
<jiboumans> excellent
<jiboumans> [TOPIC] Spec status review (ttx)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Spec status review (ttx)
<kirkland> jiboumans: fix confirmed in the ppa
<kirkland> jiboumans: pushed to -proposed
<ttx> OK, featurefreeze coming up... tomorrow
<ttx> Specs with FeatureFreeze-affected work items that I wanted to discuss are:
<ttx> server-lucid-aws-client-libraries
<ttx> smoser: I completed the review, please have a look at them, ping me when ready if it's still in my time
<smoser> ok. ill do that.
<ttx> ping /someone else/ if too late
<ttx> those needs to be uploaded today, are in pretty good shape methinks
<ttx> mathiaz: comments ?
<mathiaz> those needs to be uploaded today, are in pretty good shape methinkstoo
<ttx> mathiaz: copycat !
<ttx> server-lucid-contextualization
<jiboumans> soren's out sick today unfortunately
<ttx> This one needs soren's completion of a feature in VMBuilder... but that may not happen
<ttx> server-lucid-asterisk-integration
<ttx> Looking at the blueprint, we seem pretty far on that one
<ttx> Lots of things would need to go in before FF
<jiboumans> Daviey: ^
<jiboumans> and jmdault
<ttx> server-lucid-cluster-stack is in a slightly better shape, but still requires some pre-FF action
<ttx> nobody from ubuntu-ha around
<jiboumans> ttx: let's follow up on both of these via email
<ttx> ok
<ttx> High specs < 80% completion
<Daviey> jiboumans: \o
<jiboumans> [ACTION] ttx to follow up on server-lucid-cluster-stack and server-lucid-asterisk-integration via email
<MootBot> ACTION received:  ttx to follow up on server-lucid-cluster-stack and server-lucid-asterisk-integration via email
<ttx> server-lucid-uec-testing (kirkland)
<kirkland> ttx: good; i have one more topo to test today
<kirkland> ttx: will be done today
<ttx> kirkland: ok, so you'd mark the "A2" tests completed then ?
<Daviey> ttx / jiboumans : server-lucid-asterisk-integration is going to be less adventerous than intially planned.. defering to non-lts.
<ttx> kirkland: and get ready to test A3 candidates early next week :)
<kirkland> ttx: i will
<ttx> server-lucid-seeds (zul, mathiaz)
<zul> i think its pending on the ha stuff?
<jiboumans> Daviey: please update the blueprint to reflect that
<mathiaz> ttx: on track. need to check if all relevant packages have been demoted to universe
<Daviey> jiboumans: wilco
<ttx> the idea would be not to be pending on external specs
<mathiaz> ttx: if not more investigation for some package may be required
<ttx> mathiaz, zul: so we coud move the ha-related stuff to cluster-stack spec
<jiboumans> +1 on that
<mathiaz> ttx: done
<ttx> mathiaz: your opinion on that ?
<ttx> ok
<ttx> that leaves ctdb as a potential target
<ttx> and the triplecheck everything was done.
<ttx> Medium specs < 60% completion
<ttx> server-lucid-daily-vcs (zul)
<ttx> zul: anythig blocking, or on track ?
<zul> on track
<ttx> still planning to complete all of it by A3 ?
<zul> i hope to get most of it done by a3
<ttx> As a general note, try to reflect the work you're doing with work items completion, even if that means rewriting them as you go
<ttx> i.e. if you're 90% done on one item but blocking on the remaining 10%,; makes sense to split it between a DONE and a INPROGRESS item
<ttx> gives everyone confidence the thing is moving
<ttx> jiboumans: I think I'm done, anything to add ?
<jiboumans> nope, let's move on
<jiboumans> [TOPIC] Boto 1.9 vs Boto 1.8 for euca2ools (smoser/ttx)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Boto 1.9 vs Boto 1.8 for euca2ools (smoser/ttx)
 * nijaba waves at ivoks
<ttx> we'll go back to cluster-stack in Open Discussion, time permitting
 * ivoks o/
<ttx> summary of issue: euca2ools is certified with boto 1.8 and we ship boto 1.9
<ttx> three options:
<smoser> we have no known issues without fixes.
<ttx> 1/ Fix bugs a they come up, as its not black magic
<ttx> 2/ Revert to 1.8, and be stuck with an old lib
<ttx> 3/ Ship both (if that's possible ?)
<jiboumans> -1 on option 2
<ttx> Wated to have input on how feasible (3) was
<ttx> Wanted, even
<ttx> Eucalytpus came up with a list, but it's hardly comprehensive
<jiboumans> will upstream take the patches if we do 1/ ?
<zul> does ec2-init depend on boto 1.9?
<smoser> well i'm sure there are examples of other python libraries with 2 versions in main.
<ttx> zul: no
<smoser> s/ec2-init/cloud-init/ does not depend on boto 1.9
<ttx> zul: but we want to ship with an uptodate boto
<ttx> smoser: so you +1 option (1), I gather
<zul> gotcha
<smoser> i really favor 1
<zul> i like 3 but 1 makes more sense
<ttx> mathiaz: would (2) or (3) need to be done pre-FF ?
<ttx> (if yes, sounds like a sensible case for requestion a FFe)
<smoser> we really *should* be fairly confident at this point that our euca2ools are reasonably sufficient, as we use them for our testing of eucalyptus.
<kirkland> ttx: i would +1   on option 1, if we can get Eucalyptus on board with us
<kirkland> ttx: it's tough going against them on this, though
<mathiaz> hm - (3) would be a good candidate for a FFe
<jiboumans> smoser: will upstream take the patches if we do 1/ ?
<mathiaz> I would be reluctant to grant a FFe for (2)
<ttx> kirkland: they have been very much against option (1)
<smoser> in each of the 3 cases I'm aware of, It hasn't taken me more than a couple hours to identify the root cause of a bug and come up with a 1.8 or 1.9 compatible fix.
<smoser> jiboumans, upstream as Eucalyptus has taken 2 of the 3.  I think they've just not looked at the 3rd yet.
<jiboumans> so that makes 1 and 3 viable still
<smoser> actually the 3rd (bug 520707) is most easily fixed in boto. much harder to fix it in euca2ools.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 520707 in python-boto "euca-describe-snapshots invalid literal for int() with base 10" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/520707
<smoser> but the "real fix" is in Eucalyptus
<ttx> ok, so I think we can go (1) and use (3) as a fallback if hell breaks loose
<ttx> *but*
<jiboumans> ttx: +1
<ttx> we need to do some test coverage ourselves as well, or convince eucalyptus to run it for us
<ttx> so that (3) is done asap if we decide it's necessary
<ttx> getting "some bugs" is not good enough. We need to get "the bugs"
<mathiaz> part of the uec-testing spec was to write more test for the euca commands
<mathiaz> it boils down to writing more tests for whatever test framework/scripts we go with
<ttx> mathiaz: ack
<mathiaz> there are ~30 commands IIRC
<ttx> other comments ?
<smoser> its terribly easy to replace the boto that euca2ools use and test with one or the other
<smoser> export PYTHONPATH=$PWD/boto-1.9b
<kirkland> perhaps we should keep a boto-1.8 in a PPA?
<ttx> kirkland: yes, makes sense
<kirkland> like a 50lb bag of rice in a fallout shelter :-)
<ttx> ok, moving on...
<jiboumans> skipping this weeks 'Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (soren, hggdh)' -- neither are available today
<jiboumans> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (jjohansen)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (jjohansen)
<jjohansen> well I don't think I have anything new
<jjohansen> smoser how are the new kernels working out?
<jiboumans> i was wondering exactly that :)
 * smoser claps, as we have -virtual and -ec2 kernels without ramdisks booting
<zul> yay!
<jiboumans> jjohansen++ smoser++ nice one
<mathiaz> smoser: have you looket at the bug I reported about images not working on UEC?
<ttx> smoser: pre-A3 cloud images are looking good so far ? Haven't tested them yet
<mathiaz> smoser: is this related to the kernel or something else is wrong?
<smoser> i think its not related, bug 522292 is to be mentioned there, but I do not think it is related.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 522292 in ubuntu "Lucid UEC image 20100215 unable to start on UEC" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/522292
<smoser> ttx, they boot and run well on ec2.
<mathiaz> ttx: ^^ - doesn't work on UEC though
<smoser> mathiaz, i think its error, somehow the file not getting registered correctly.
<ttx> mathiaz: ok, will have a look into that
<smoser> maybe tomorrow, as other feature work is done, i'll try to install euca here to have more easily testable.
<jiboumans> anything else on the kernel?
<ttx> no
<jiboumans> thanks jjohansen
<jiboumans> [TOPIC] Server Papercuts (ttx)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Server Papercuts (ttx)
<ttx> OK, I hope everyone had the time to quickly look at this week's candidates :)
<ttx> https://bugs.launchpad.net/server-papercuts/+bugs?search=Search&field.status=New
<ttx> Let's fdo the +1 +0 -1 game again
<ttx> https://bugs.launchpad.net/server-papercuts/+bug/56679
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 56679 in netcfg "provide a method to use a specified MAC-address as the installation device" [Wishlist,Confirmed]
<ttx> -1 (installer issue)
<jiboumans> -1
<ttx> https://bugs.launchpad.net/server-papercuts/+bug/79371
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 79371 in cyrus-sasl2 "saslauthd init script does not allow movement of PID" [Low,Confirmed]
<ttx> +1...
<zul> shouldnt it be converted to upstart?
<ttx> zul: that's a way to fix it
<zul> +1 then
<ttx> zul: thanks for volunteering :P
<ttx> https://bugs.launchpad.net/server-papercuts/+bug/165184
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 165184 in amavisd-new "amavisd-new + spamassassin: cronjob spams root user" [Medium,Triaged]
<ttx> +1, worst case as a doc thing
<ivoks> huh?
<ttx> since it didn't really reach clear consensus
<ttx> ivoks: if use_bayes=0 or something
<ivoks> that's a doc thing
<jiboumans> +1 # doc fixes are cheap
<zul> +1
<ttx> https://bugs.launchpad.net/server-papercuts/+bug/182572
<mathiaz> +1
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 182572 in samba "Samba Fails to Split GECOS on Comma" [Unknown,Confirmed]
<ttx> +1
<zul> +1
<ttx> I kinda like this one :)
<ttx> https://bugs.launchpad.net/server-papercuts/+bug/211915
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 211915 in amavisd-new "Insecure dependency when using sql for Log Reporting" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<zul> fix is upstream
<ttx> this one had me go uh?
<ivoks> i'll take a look at it
<ttx> +0
<zul> -1
<ivoks> +/-0
<ttx> let's keep it for next week
<ivoks> :)
<ttx> https://bugs.launchpad.net/server-papercuts/+bug/269251
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 269251 in bacula "package bacula 2.4.2-1ubuntu4~hardy1 failed to install/upgrade: AbhÃ¤ngigkeitsprobleme - lasse es unkonfiguriert" [Medium,Confirmed]
<ttx> +1...
<ttx> ivoks: my understanding is that you already have a fix in PPA
<zul> not an easy fix imho
<ivoks> that was a year ago, i have to look at it
<jiboumans> +1
<ttx> https://bugs.launchpad.net/server-papercuts/+bug/321091
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 321091 in bacula "Probleme de dependance" [Medium,Triaged]
<ttx> same for this one, +1...
<jiboumans> let's speed this up a bit
<ivoks> ttx: +1 same problem as the previous one
<jiboumans> +1
<ttx> https://bugs.launchpad.net/server-papercuts/+bug/325109
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 325109 in bacula "bacula-director-pgsql fails postinst because of missing check for running psql daemon" [Medium,Triaged]
<ttx> +1 (same)
<ivoks> unfixable
<ttx> ah
<ttx> -1 then :)
<ivoks> we could recommend sql installation by default
<ttx> https://bugs.launchpad.net/server-papercuts/+bug/427701
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 427701 in openvpn "OpenVPN client always runs" [Wishlist,Triaged]
<ttx> +1
<zul> +1
<ttx> https://bugs.launchpad.net/server-papercuts/+bug/454566
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 454566 in chkrootkit "False positive for SucKit" [Wishlist,Incomplete]
<ttx> +0, not sure we should change lousy rootkit detection rules blindly
<zul> -1
<ttx> https://bugs.launchpad.net/server-papercuts/+bug/494380
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 494380 in bacula "mtx-changer.conf is missing in bacula-sd" [Low,Confirmed]
 * nealmcb looks around, sleepy-eyed
<ttx> +1
<zul> +1
<ttx> https://bugs.launchpad.net/server-papercuts/+bug/495372
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 495372 in bacula "Please upgrade to 3.0.3 for lucid" [Wishlist,Triaged]
<ttx> -1 not a papercut
<zul> -1 not a papercut
<ttx> https://bugs.launchpad.net/server-papercuts/+bug/508382
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 508382 in bacula "bconsole does not connect to bacula-director" [Medium,Confirmed]
 * ivoks hides
<zul> +1
<ttx> +0
<ttx> not so sure about the fix
<ttx> OK, I'll update status accordingly
<ivoks> build without support for SSL, i guess
<ttx> that makes ~20 nominees
<ttx> with 5 weeks between A3 and beta2freeze
 * ivoks takes bacula and amavisd-new
<ttx> I think we should target 5 bugs fixed every week
<jiboumans> ivoks++
<ttx> ivoks: that's about half of them ! thanks !
<ivoks> you all owe me a six pack
<ivoks> :)
 * kirkland passes ivoks a cold one
 * jiboumans starts working out
<alexm> ivoks: sorry for bringing you a lot of extra work, let me know if i can help somehow
<zul> ivoks: sure the finest american swill coming up ;)
<ttx> should we atregt 5/week ? or 6 to have some room for new ones ?
<jiboumans> the latter -- more *will* come ;)
<Daviey> I think we should have capacity to allow more papercuts this cycle.
<ttx> Or I'll just attach all of them to the blueprint and we'll follow completion there
<jiboumans> soudns like a plan
<jiboumans> moving on
<jiboumans> [TOPIC] Weekly SRU review: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/KnowledgeBase#SRU%20weekly%20review (mathiaz)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly SRU review: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/KnowledgeBase#SRU%20weekly%20review (mathiaz)
<mathiaz> there aren't any bugs nominated for this week
<mathiaz> http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ubuntu-server-team/fixedbugs.ubuntu-server.latest.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ubuntu-server-team/fixedbugs.ubuntu-server.latest.html
<mathiaz> ^^ anything SRU worth on this list?
<jiboumans> going once...
<ttx> no
<zul> the php one maybe
 * ivoks ignores sru for now
<mathiaz> allright - then - that's all for now
 * ttx ignores importance:undecided ones :P
<mathiaz> for the SRU review
<jiboumans> [TOPIC] Open Discussion
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open Discussion
<jiboumans> ttx: you wanted to get back to cluster stack?
<mathiaz> ivoks: my good friend!
<ttx> Back to the cluster-stack spec, wanted to get some pre-FF status from ivoks
<ivoks> eh, beat me
<mathiaz> ivoks: what's up with the cluster stack?
<ttx> ivoks: looks like you have a few things to complete by the end of today :P
<ivoks> as you know, we usually don't need MIRs completed before FF
<jmdault> If anyone has the time, I need some feedback/sponsoring for Asterisk
<mathiaz> ivoks: are all the packages ready in your PPA?
<ivoks> but the thing is that once cluster stack is in main, we could change couple of main packages
<jiboumans> jmdault: definitely -- let's discuss right after the cluster stack
<ivoks> mathiaz: yeah, i just need to change versions
<jmdault> jiboumans: great
<ttx> ivoks: what about "create cluster task for tasksel: TODO" ?
<ivoks> mathiaz: they are -ubuntu0ppaX for now
<ttx> ivoks: sounds like a real feature to me
<ivoks> ttx: that's a really easy one and can be completed in 5 minutes
<ivoks> ttx: but it can't happen before everything is in main
<ivoks> my plan is to finish mirs asap (like in couple of hours)
<ivoks> and then i'll need push if that's ok with everybody (security etc) to get them in main before FF
<ttx> ivoks: ok, so you still plan to complete it by tahiti's EOD wednesday ?
<ivoks> mirs? yes
<ttx> the tasksel thing should get a FFe, I think
<ivoks> then just a sync from my ppa would be enough
<ivoks> ttx: +1
<ivoks> tasksel thing, ocfs2-tools and lvm2
<ivoks> that can go in FFe
<ivoks> everything else before FFe
<ivoks> FF
<ivoks> i reserved my time today to finish everything
<ttx> ivoks: cool
<ttx> nothing else from me
<ivoks> there's also mail stack that just needs patches to amavis
<nijaba> jmdault: wanted to talk about asterix
<jiboumans> jmdault: go ahead
<jmdault> great
<jmdault> The packages are in my PPA
 * jiboumans thinks nijaba read too many comics
 * nijaba admit jiboumans is not wrong
<jmdault> I need to know what steps to do to get them in the distro
<ttx> The asterisk spec seems pretty far away from being feature-complete to me, looking at the blueprints work items status
<jmdault> It's stuck at the testing status
<jmdault> Packages work individually
<jmdault> But we need to test the integration
<jiboumans> jmdault: it's missing a tasksel, meta packages, gui according to the spec
<jmdault> The gui is there
<jiboumans> daviey, jmdault: is htat what you're intending to cut?
<ttx> "Create tasksel in server for pbx install: TODO" I don't think this one is wanted, since asterisk would not be in main ?
<Daviey> jiboumans: I do not believe the integration can be seemless for lucid.
<ttx> the metapackage should take care of the "easy install" part, right
<jmdault> yes
<jmdault> ttx is right
<Daviey> ttx: err, mythtv has some tasksel options and that is universe.
<nijaba> Daviey: yep, but not a server task that shows up in the installer
<jmdault> anyways, the tasksel should just install the meta package
<nijaba> Daviey: taskel -s IIRC
<ttx> jmdault: so what do you expect FFe for ?
<jmdault> Right now, the packages are in my PPA
<ttx> so it's a question of review / upload ?
<jmdault> yes
<jmdault> I can live without the tasksel
<jiboumans> anyone with a few spare cycles to give jmdault a hand?
<jmdault> But we need to have at least the dahdi and asterisk packages uploaded ASAP
<Daviey> jmdault: can you produce a diff or debdiff please?
<ttx> our time is getting limited unfortunately
 * Daviey will take this out of band with jmdault 
<jmdault> Daviey: great
<ttx> Daviey++
<jiboumans> daviey++ indeed
<jmdault> thankx
<jiboumans> jmdault: anythign else on asterisk we should discuss here and now?
<ttx> jmdault: maybe stgraber can have a look at your packages as well
<jmdault> jiboumans: no
<jiboumans> ok, any other topics?
<jiboumans> going once..
<jiboumans> .. twice..
<jiboumans> [TOPIC] Next meeting Wednesday, Feb 24th, 1400 UTC in #ubuntu-meeting
<MootBot> New Topic:  Next meeting Wednesday, Feb 24th, 1400 UTC in #ubuntu-meeting
<jiboumans> thanks all for your time
<jiboumans> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 08:56.
<ivoks> ok, let's work
<ttx> long day ahead :)
<Daviey> \o/
<Keybuk> ev: activity report?
<ev> sending now
<Keybuk> slangasek: you too ;-)
<lool> Hey folks!
<tremolux> lool: howdy lool!
<lool> cjwatson is on leave
<Keybuk> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 10:03. The chair is Keybuk.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<lool> I think doko might be at PyCon or something
<Keybuk> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/Meetings/2010/0217
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/Meetings/2010/0217
<Keybuk> Hey folks
<Keybuk> Agenda at the usual URL
<Keybuk> I'm guessing Barry might be at PyCon too?
<Keybuk> it seems like his kind of thing
<tremolux> Keybuk: he is, yes
<lool> Keybuk: :)
<lool> james_w, slangasek: around?
<james_w> hi
<lool> mvo: w00t
<Keybuk> [TOPIC] Lightning Round
<Keybuk> order: me, lool, tremolux, ev, mvo, james_w, slangasek
<MootBot> New Topic:  Lightning Round
<Keybuk> I've been working (shockingly) on boot performance all week
<Keybuk> as you may have seen, we're getting very close
<Keybuk> 10.83s is the lowest number so far :-)
<Keybuk> --
<lool> That's to gdm with rotating storage?
<Keybuk> lool: no
<lool> Focus on fixing various issues with ARM related tools; killed a bunch of FTBFSes
<lool> --
<mvo> hi
<tremolux> Finished up presentation of individual sofware sources feature in Software Center, it's landed.
<tremolux> Now working on back/forward navigation feature, making good progress.  Working to get it ready to go for FF.
<tremolux> Also working on two bugs for s-c tagged for alpha-3.
<tremolux> (done)
<tremolux> mvo: heya!
<ev> Adding some polish to the installer at the design team's request, unbreaking things after the plugins conversion, working through some finer points of the installer design specification (gtk doesn't make my life easy - need to write a new layout widget), trying to sort out shoving usb-creator inside wubi per a request from Mark, looking for bugs to fix before I head to Pycon tomorrow.
<ev> (done)
<mvo> working on software-center ratings&reviews, wrote prototype django backend server (now that we know that launchpad will not be used), in discussions how to do authentication, moderation etc
<mvo> updating python-apt, apt
<mvo> (done)
<james_w> Yay for feature freeze
<james_w> writing features, fixing bugs, merging code, talking to LP developers
<james_w> (done)
<mvo> ha! I did the same :)
<Keybuk> I have a feeling that slangasek is fast asleep
<Keybuk> [TOPIC] Outstanding actions from last meeting
<MootBot> New Topic:  Outstanding actions from last meeting
<Keybuk>   * mvo to add Bug:506709 to sprint agenda
<Keybuk> seems to be still on the list?
<mvo> eh, I think we can remove that now
<Keybuk> ok
<Keybuk> [TOPIC] Outstanding feature freeze exceptions
<MootBot> New Topic:  Outstanding feature freeze exceptions
<Keybuk> I guess today is the day ...
<mvo> I will probably need one for ratings&reviews, just as a early warning
<Keybuk> anyone else got any bad feelings?
<Keybuk> no? :)
<james_w> I'll probably realise that were are in dire need of a new bzr-builddeb feature in about 24 hours :-)
<ev> I might need some for things design want, but nothing specific yet
<Keybuk> I may end up with a couple of small ones for extra tenths of second
<slangasek> more instant-shake asleep
<james_w> morning slangasek
<Keybuk> [TOPIC] Milestoned bugs
<MootBot> New Topic:  Milestoned bugs
 * slangasek waves
<Keybuk> [LINK] https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/lucid/+bugs?field.milestone:list=21445
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/lucid/+bugs?field.milestone:list=21445
<Keybuk> anything alarming on there?
<Keybuk> I see a lot of ARM :p
<lool> I didn't do it!
<james_w> I'm entirely focused on bzr-related stuff at the moment, so don't have hardly any bugs assigned to me at all. Therefore I might be able to help you out if you are drowning for a particular milestone
<Keybuk> ok, quiet here too :p
<Keybuk> [TOPIC] Good News?
<MootBot> New Topic:  Good News?
<Keybuk> either we're all in a state of shock, or this feature freeze seems a little relaxed
<Keybuk> which is it? :p
<lool> ev: Is g-i desired for lucid?
<lool> Like nice to have or somethiing
<ev> g-i?
<slangasek> g-i being the gtk d-i frontend
<lool> graphical installer
<ev> ah
<ev> I certainly don't care about it.  I know Colin has a certain affinity for it though.
<lool> (I was wondering WRT to feature freeze, since cjwatson followed the discussions there and mentionned a while ago that it might be of interest to ubuntu)
<lool> ev: ok thanks
<james_w> hamster-applet and gtg are pretty nice
<james_w> the former made writing my activity report a breeze this week
<Keybuk> who wants to chair next week?
<tremolux> how about me?  I haven't yet
<Keybuk> tremolux: ok! :)
<Keybuk> [TOPIC] AOB
<MootBot> New Topic:  AOB
<james_w> none from me
<Keybuk> ok
<Keybuk> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:23.
<Keybuk> thanks all
<mvo> thanks
<tremolux> thanks, see ya
<ev> thanks!
<lool> wee
 * marjo waves
 * ara waves
 * fader_ waves.
<bdmurray> \o/
<marjo> #startmeeting QA Team
<MootBot> Meeting started at 11:00. The chair is marjo.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<marjo> hi folks!
<marjo> Agenda
<marjo> # Introduce Carlos De Avillez (Marjo)
<marjo> #
<marjo> nVIDIA & ATI proprietary drivers testing (Update: Reports available) -- ara
<marjo> [TOPIC] Introducing Carlos De Avillez
<MootBot> New Topic:  Introducing Carlos De Avillez
<hggdh_> er. Hello folks ;-)
<marjo> folks: please help me welcome Carlos (hggdh) to the Ubuntu Platform QA Team as the Server QA Engineer
<ara> hggdh_, welcome to the mad house!
<fader_> hggdh_: Welcome!
<marjo> you will all recognize him through his nick
<bdmurray> hggdh_: hey, welcome aboard
 * hggdh_ feels welcome, although still a bit lost
<marjo> hggdh: would you like to do a short intro?
<hggdh_> yes, np
<hggdh_> Although most of you already know it, I have some long years in this business, most of it with proprietary software
<hggdh_> I have done many different things, from basic software (O.S.) development to support.
<hggdh_> which means QA also. But this is the first time I am actually pure QA
<hggdh_> so... I am yours to use & abuse, but tenderly, if you don't mind
<marjo> hggdh: you shoudn't have said that
<marjo> welcome!
<hggdh> thank you.
<marjo> [TOPIC] nVIDIA & ATI proprietary drivers testing (Update: Reports available) -- ara
<MootBot> New Topic:  nVIDIA & ATI proprietary drivers testing (Update: Reports available) -- ara
<ara> Hello
<ara> as I told last week, we have started with the weekly proprietary drivers testing
<ara> reports are being generated daily
<ara> and they are available at http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/xorg_prop_drivers/
<ara> [LINK] http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/xorg_prop_drivers/
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/xorg_prop_drivers/
<ara> (in case any one is interested in the results)
<fader_> ara: I haven't submitted anything yet but still plan to this week... it's not too late is it? :)
<ara> fader_, no, you have all week :)
<fader_> \o/
<hggdh> I am. My ATI is not working since start of Lucid
<ara> hggdh, yes, no drivers yet
 * hggdh is starting to feel deep love for Intel chips
<ara> and that's it. I just wanted to let everyone else know
<marjo> ara: thx
<marjo> folks: that's all we have on the posted agenda
<marjo> are there new topics?
<bdmurray> I gave a class on bug triage last week to the Greater Seattle LUG.
<bdmurray> http://castrojo.wordpress.com/2010/02/16/bug-triage-101/
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://castrojo.wordpress.com/2010/02/16/bug-triage-101/
<bdmurray> Not that you all need to watch it but I thought it might be a useful resource to tell others about.
<ara> bdmurray, indeed
<hggdh> and nigelnb already added it to the BugSquad wiki
<marjo> bdmurray: thx for sharing that
<marjo> folks: anything else for today?
<davmor2> sorry to interrupt ara nvidia still has the enter issue for me  only bigger issue is I can't hit enter in terminal so I can't bug it
<bdmurray> At the sprint weren't we talking about adding a FAQ to qa.ubuntu.com?
<fader_> davmor2: We've reproduced the same thing in the Montreal lab, though we preseed sshd so we're able to ssh into those machines and gather data
<fader_> davmor2: So there's a bug somewhere... I can dig up the number if you're interested
<davmor2> fader_: please
<fader_> davmor2: One moment
<fader_> davmor2: bug 522692
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 522692 in plymouth "Pressing <Enter> key causes X to freeze" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/522692
<davmor2> ta
<ara> have we lost the meeting chair?
<marjo> folks: anything else?
<hggdh> back to bdmurray: will there be a FAQ for QA?
<bdmurray> The context was answering the same questions on the ubuntu-qa mailing list
<fader_> bdmurray: I started pulling something together for that but it's been a low priority for me
<fader_> And then I saw that it's mostly already on the QA site, though it could possibly be a bit more prominent
<bdmurray> okay, fair enough
<marjo> bdmurray, fader: any suggestions on next steps?
<bdmurray> maybe a bug report to track the progress?
<bdmurray> or so we don't forget ;-)
<fader_> marjo: Not at the moment; I'll stick it in my calendar to look at this weekend and see what suggestions I come up with
<marjo> fader_: ok, thx; will follow up next week
<marjo> folks: any other topics?
<marjo> ok, if nothing else, i propose we adjourn the meeting
<marjo> going once
<marjo> twice
<marjo> meeting adjourned
<marjo> thx folks!
<marjo> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 11:30.
<highvoltage> Good evening!
<mgariepy> hi
<Lns> good morning ;)
<alkisg> Good evening
<sbalneav> o/
<sbalneav> present
 * stgraber waves
<alkisg> future
<Lns> lol
<highvoltage> Agenda is quite simple, it's up at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/Meetings/Agenda
<highvoltage> anything else that we should add to the agenda?
<stgraber> artwork, website, bugday ?
<stgraber> oh, bug day is already there
<alkisg> Woohoo, LTSP live :)
<highvoltage> bug day is there, I'll add the others
<highvoltage> ok let's kick it off with technical.
<stgraber> ok, guess I'll start then
<stgraber> for the daily DVD, it started to work again yesterday
 * sbalneav has something to add to technical
<stgraber> we now have daily builds, including over 130 different languages, the LTSP packages on the DVD, the netbook packages on the DVD, the menu editor and updated artwork
<highvoltage> thanks for doing so once again stgraber
<stgraber> I haven't tried to install it though but everything else seems to work quite nicely
<highvoltage> stgraber: this was kde language packs related right?
<stgraber> KDE is working (though slightly broken) and the langpacks are fixed
<stgraber> nope, it was some KDE game (parley) that was breaking everything
<stgraber> I had to make LP rebuild it to fix the DVD + nag ArneGoetje about some langpacks :)
<nixternal> hola
<Riddell> what was parley breaking?
<highvoltage> hola senor nixternal
<stgraber> Riddell: it was simply not installing a week or so ago as it was depending on an old version of some library. Clicking rebuild in LP fixed the issue
<nixternal> was on the phone
<stgraber> I guess it's pretty much it for the DVD, only remaining items are the netbook interface and LTSP live
 * mhall119|work is here now
<highvoltage> *nod*
<highvoltage> ltsp-scripts for live cd isn't such a monster, but we need that ltsp squashfs
<nixternal> plasma-netbook ftw! :)
<highvoltage> stgraber wrote a nice blog post on the edubuntu menu editor: http://www.stgraber.org/2010/02/16/say-hi-edubuntu-menu-editor
<sbalneav> Should I interject with my stuff now?
<highvoltage> (skipping ahead to that)
<highvoltage> sbalneav: fire away
<sbalneav> Ok, 2 things:
<sbalneav> 1) more work today was done on ltspfs to squash the "everyone sees everyone elses mounts" problem.  I have something committed to the branch, and stgraber's going to cut ltsp 5.2 soon
<sbalneav>  
<sbalneav> TEST TEST TEST TEST TEST
<sbalneav> please
<stgraber> yeah ? :)
<mhall119|work> lagging?
<sbalneav> 2) Bug day next week
<sbalneav> so far, only "gimp
<sbalneav> 's" been identified
<sbalneav> can't type today.
<stgraber> I'll release ltsp 5.2, ldm 2.1 and ltspfs 0.6 later tonight. So all versions will be bumped and it'll be easily to track versions of our users. Just so you're all aware.
<sbalneav> looking at the bug list, there's a few edu programs with patches.
<highvoltage> sbalneav: I've been meaning to add the new edu packages we've added to your bug day request
<highvoltage> sbalneav: I've just been completely horrible at e-mail this week since my attention has been scattered way too much
<sbalneav> slap 'em on the packagebug page we have
<highvoltage> sbalneav: *nod* will do
<sbalneav> kk
<sbalneav> that's all from me.
<mgariepy> yesterday I added the possibility to show/hide system groups (gid < 1000) in profilemanager.
<mgariepy> Comments also started to come in from launchpad, i'll probably have some bug fix to do soon.
<alkisg> mgariepy: menueditor is translated directly in launchpad, right?
<mgariepy> yes
<alkisg> k
<mgariepy> there is a few strings to correct thought ;)
<highvoltage> stgraber: how are things comming along with the ltsp release today?
<Lns> mgariepy: profile manager = sabayon?
<mgariepy> Lns, profilemanager is part of edubuntu-menueditor
<stgraber> highvoltage: waiting on sbalneav ;) and need to do more testing of everything else.
<mgariepy> it does apply menu profiles to groups
<sbalneav> stgraber: My patches are done.
<Lns> mgariepy: oh ok :)
<highvoltage> on the artwork front, I've updated the default wallpaper and the icon theme to Breathe
<sbalneav> I tested my changes here, seem to work.
<highvoltage> although I did something wrong with specifying the icon theme so it falls back to the Gnome icon theme
<highvoltage> I'll have that fixed by friday
<sbalneav> the /media/userid directory is now user owned, mode 700
<Lns> woot!
<mgariepy> sbalneav, nice :D
<sbalneav> highvoltage: Did we switch to gartoon-redux?  Sorry, I forgot to post a screenshot somewhere :(
<highvoltage> sbalneav: we need to get that packaged first, but the plan is to use that for the young ones
<highvoltage> sbalneav: and the breathe-icon-theme for the old timmers
<highvoltage> *timers
<Lns> highvoltage: how will that be chosen, a simple gnome theme config?
<Lns> or during install?
<highvoltage> Lns: you'll be able to choose the default by choosing a debian task after installation
<highvoltage> Lns: but besides that users can also choose for themselves if they aren't locked down
<Lns> cool! :)
<Lns> I think that's going to be a very good feature. Helps with sense of ownership
<sbalneav> highvoltage: check my ppa.  I packaged it.
<sbalneav> I agree.  that will be awesome.
<highvoltage> stgraber: do we have to get it into revu or could we just review it and sponsor it?
<stgraber> is that a package update or a new package ?
<highvoltage> stgraber: it's not currently packaged in ubuntu (at least not the -redux theme)
<stgraber> if that's a new package, we need it on revu today and uploaded before FF (and then hope to have it accepted ...)
<highvoltage> hmm yes it's a new package
<highvoltage> sbalneav: will you have any time for that today?
<highvoltage> I know you have a lot of work to do with the LTSP release
<sbalneav> Time for what?  putting it on revu?
<highvoltage> sbalneav: yes
<sbalneav> I've never done that before, as I've always just had someone else handle my uploads for me, but after my meeting, I can try it.
<highvoltage> sbalneav: thanks
<highvoltage> on the website front, I've been way too slack on pesting dhillion-v10 and Hedgemadge. They're usually on IRC but I haven't bumped into them for the last two weeks
<highvoltage> I'll send them both an e-mail (adding to to-do list) and ask them for an update
<highvoltage> about 2 weeks ago they already had big parts of the work they have planned finished
<HedgeMage> I was summoned?
<Lns> ;)
<highvoltage> HedgeMage!
 * HedgeMage 's ears are ringing.
<highvoltage> yes :)
<highvoltage> HedgeMage: we need a website update :)
<highvoltage> HedgeMage: (if you can give us one now)
<HedgeMage> highvoltage: Vdhillon has been really helpful in getting most of the settings stuff hacked out -- I need to do the theme and a couple of feature set-ups.  I'll be knocking some of that out in the next few days if all goes according to plan.
<HedgeMage> (No promises, though, it's my son's birthday weekend and I'm playing catch-up after being ill)
<highvoltage> ok, no problem! thanks for the update
<highvoltage> anything else for Technical or Community before we move over to EC part?
<stgraber> nothing here
<mhall119|work> Qimo packages are in revu
 * Lns will brb
<mhall119|work> I'm not sure what, if anything, was planned for including Qimo stuff in Edubuntu
<highvoltage> mhall119|work: I didn't have a chance to look at them again today, but I think they should be looking quite good if you addressed all the things nixternal mentioned yesterday
<mhall119|work> yes, I make a list of every file in the package according to license
<sbalneav> ok, gartoon-redux uploaded to revu
<highvoltage> mhall119|work: basically... we need to get those packages uploaded today
<nixternal> yeah, haven't had a chance to look, been busy wrestling debian/experimental merges and some other garbage today
<mhall119|work> also inlined the GPLv2 and cc-by-sa into debian/copyright
<highvoltage> mhall119|work: ah great
<mhall119|work> highvoltage: by 'we' you mean someone besides me, right?
<highvoltage> mhall119|work: by 'we' I'm including you and whoever advocates and uploads those packages
<highvoltage> mhall119|work: sounds like you've done your part, at least :)
<mhall119|work> yeah, I don't know what it means to upload, and I doubt I have access to do it
<highvoltage> mhall119|work: ok let's talk after meetting
<highvoltage> we have 20 minutes left so let's move on to EC section
<mhall119|work> should I dput a new version with my bug fixes, or wait until it's approved?
<mhall119|work> ok, sure
<highvoltage> I think this is our first EC meeting since the new EC?
<highvoltage> shall we start with mgariepy's membership application?
<stgraber> yep
 * Lns is back
<highvoltage> mgariepy: still here?
<mgariepy> yes ;)
<mgariepy> wouldn't miss it !
<highvoltage> mgariepy: please tell us about yourself
<mgariepy> My real name is Marc GariÃ©py. I live in Sherbrooke, QC, CA. I work for RÃ©voluiton Linux, as a linux technician, I mostly deploy ltsp-cluster for school districts. I'm quite familiar with desktop management (gnome, kde, freedesktop.org). I am most active on Launchpad, I try to be present on IRC.
<mgariepy> I am upstream member of ltsp (https://launchpad.net/ltsp) and ltsp-cluster(https://launchpad.net/ltsp-cluster), so I have submited/corrected a few bugs for those projects. I have contributed edubuntu-menueditor ( https://launchpad.net/menueditor) for Edubuntu, so administrator simply change menus layout on the system for differents group of users.
<highvoltage> mgariepy: what do you mean when you say you work 'on launchpad'?
<mgariepy> i also was at last ltsp by the sea
<mgariepy> bug management
<mgariepy> packaging in ppa
<mgariepy> stuff like that
<sbalneav> mgariepy: What's your favorite beer?
<highvoltage> mgariepy: why would you like to be an ubuntu member?
<mgariepy> i had a few pacakages sponsored by stgraber
<mgariepy> sbalneav,  hmm i would say "black one from ''La mare au diable'' here in sherbrooke"
<sbalneav> Excellent.
<mgariepy> I want to help making ubunut better for users
<sbalneav> stgraber knows him personally, and vouches for him.  His work's been excellent, he hangs out in the channel to answer questions.  I've met him, and he likes beer.
<sbalneav> +1 for me.
<Lns> +1
<alkisg> +1
<stgraber> +1
<nixternal> +1
<highvoltage> I've only known him briefly, but he's always friendly and helpful and the reasons that sbalneav pasted is plenty enough reason. +1 from me as well
<highvoltage> mgariepy: that's 6/6, congrats!
<mgariepy> thanks guys ;)
<nixternal> congrats and welcome mgariepy \o/
<Lns> woohoo! welcome mgariepy =)
<sbalneav> So was that for ubuntu-members, or edubuntu-members.
<mgariepy> highvoltage, i think soon we will know each other quite well
<sbalneav> AFAIC, he should also be a member of edubuntu-dev.
<mgariepy> \o/ < yahoo!!
<highvoltage> mgariepy: *nod* :)
<stgraber> sbalneav: edubuntu-members which in turn gives ubuntu-members
<highvoltage> sbalneav: yes, we'll do that once edubuntu-dev is sorted out
<stgraber> sbalneav: we cleared edubuntu-dev, we'll have that team approved next week, then will review who will be in the team
<stgraber> sbalneav: we need to do that in step or the team won't be accepted for upload in archive
<highvoltage> sbalneav: I added it to the developer-membership-board agenda, but I was an idiot, it was supposed to be on the TB agenda. that's happening next week at least
<highvoltage> ok, one more item...
<highvoltage> one moment please...
<highvoltage> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/Council
<highvoltage> we need to choose a chairman or leader (or find a reason why we won't have one)
<highvoltage> since the EC has an evil number of members we also need to decide what happens in the even of a split vote
<nixternal> chairman/leader for?
<highvoltage> uhm, s/evil/even/
<stgraber> highvoltage: oh, whot put that requirement ?
<stgraber> ah, ok
<highvoltage> nixternal: we were asked this by the CC before... and yesterday...
<highvoltage> http://paste.ubuntu.com/378574/
<nixternal> ahh yeah
<highvoltage> ^^^ seems like they care for the edubuntu-dev group as well
<highvoltage> I'm not sure how much a requirement it is, I think we're doing quite well at the moment
<sbalneav> In the event of ties, my vote counts for .5 :)
<nixternal> lol
<highvoltage> I wondered about co-leadership but that wouldn't necessarily help for tie-votes
<sbalneav> as for leader, I nominate either hv or stg
<sbalneav> off to my meeting.
<stgraber> we already have a special case of highvoltage and I, as we are "release managers" for eduubuntu
<Lns> bye sbalneav
<highvoltage> stgraber: that's different that having a leader or chairman right?
<stgraber> yeah
<nixternal> I say, every meeting where the EC needs to vote on something, one of us will be the chair for the meeting if needed, and the chair will not vote?
<nixternal> I really don't see a tie vote happening anytime soon, but just in case
<nixternal> we draw straws or rock-scisors-paper
<highvoltage> nixternal: I'm fine with that. or perhaps having the chair being able to swing the vote either way in the case of a tie
<Lns> rotating chair sounds good to me =)
<highvoltage> nixternal: rock-scissors-paper-spock-lizard
<nixternal> well, if all 6 of us show up, 1 chair, 5 voting members would be no tie, but in case 5 of us show up, then there would be no chair
<highvoltage> shall we do it alphabetically by irc nickname?
<Lns> highvoltage: haha, was just thinking that =p
<nixternal> highvoltage: that works
<highvoltage> ok, I'll add it so and send it to the edubuntu-devel list before sending it to the CC
 * alkisg doesn't think that he qualifies as a chairman, and would gladly pass his turn to the next alphabetical person :)
<highvoltage> that should sort us out for everrything we need for our edubuntu-dev rights as well
<nixternal> and the chair will only be used in the case where all 6 are present? or do we always keep a chair, and if 6 aren't present, send the vote to the mailing list if there is a split vote
<nixternal> I think if there is a quorum, then it wouldn't need to be passed on
<highvoltage> alkisg: don't worry, it's not that often we fundamentally disagree on something to the level that it causes a split vote :)
<Lns> it's mainly going to be for technicalities anyway, we might as well just say "you're it" each time, i don't see any harm
<highvoltage> nixternal: so that's basically a question on quorum right?
<nixternal> I guess so
<highvoltage> nixternal: our EC charter says that a quorum will be 3 members. so as far as I understand, if there are 3 members present and they all say +1 then it shall be so, however...
<highvoltage> nixternal: that was decided for an EC of 5, and we're 6 now. perhaps it should be 6 instead?
<highvoltage> I mean, 4
<nixternal> so quorum should be 4
<nixternal> yes
<highvoltage> stgraber, sbalneav, Lns, alkisg: you concur?
 * alkisg agrees
<stgraber> +1
<Lns> me too
<highvoltage> I'll send the proposed changes to the list anyway
<highvoltage> ok great. that means we can finally finalise our Edubuntu Council page and all our outstanding issues with CC will be dealt with
<highvoltage> anything else for this meeting? (we are currently 7 minutes over but at least we're not stepping on anyone yet)
<stgraber> nothing here
<highvoltage> going once....
<highvoltage> going twice....
<highvoltage> *BONG*
<highvoltage> thanks everyone! edubuntu is growing nicely and thanks for everyone who's making it happen!
<highvoltage> we'll continue in #edubuntu...
<nixternal> woohoo
<stgraber> thanks everyone
<Lns> thx all
<alkisg> Bye!
<mgariepy> thanks all ;)
#ubuntu-meeting 2010-02-19
 * marjo waves
 * Riddell high fives
<pitti> hello
<ttx> o/
<davidbarth> o/
<asac> o/
<jiboumans> o/
 * apw fades gently in from the background
 * ttx executes a quick dance to entertain the audience while waiting
 * Riddell nudges slangasek 
<Riddell> anyone want to phone him?
<slangasek> he
<slangasek> sorry
<slangasek> s/he/hi/
<slangasek> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 10:09. The chair is slangasek.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<slangasek> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseTeam/Meeting/2010-02-19
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseTeam/Meeting/2010-02-19
<slangasek> [TOPIC] QA Team
<MootBot> New Topic:  QA Team
<slangasek> marjo: hi
<marjo> slangasek: hi
<marjo>    * Hardware testing
<marjo> http://people.canonical.com/~fader/hw-testing/current.html
<marjo> Netbook:
<marjo>    passed:   9 (70%)   failed:   2 (15%)   untested: 2 (15%)
<marjo> Laptop:
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~fader/hw-testing/current.html
<marjo>    passed:   25 (96%)   failed:    1 ( 4%)   untested:  0 ( 0%)
<marjo> Server:
<marjo>    passed:   52 (98%)   failed:    0 ( 0%)   untested:  1 ( 2%)
<marjo> Desktop:
<marjo>    passed:   11 (92%)   failed:    0 ( 0%)   untested:  1 ( 8%)
<marjo> Bug 499940 remains open and detected in certification:
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 499940 in linux "[lucid regression] does not resume from hibernation, restarts fresh" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/499940
<marjo> 499940 - [lucid regression] does not resume from hibernation, restarts
<marjo> fresh (Confirmed, High)
<marjo> slangasek: would like your help nudging 499940 along
<marjo> seems got unassigned from kernel
<apw> marjo, unassigned from canonical-ekernel-team ?  that would be normal
<marjo> apw: don't know next steps
<marjo> any suggestions?
<apw> the suspicion seems to be there is things are going wrong in userspace cause it is finding two matches for the disk
<apw> i've not looked any closer ... who knows that side of things
<slangasek> I can look into this on the cryptsetup side
<apw> slangasek, perhaps you an i can coordinate on this one
<slangasek> (not for a3; beta-1 seems like the realistic milestone there still)
<marjo> slangasek, apw: much appreciated
<slangasek> (assigned myself)
<marjo> thx gentlemen!
<marjo>    * UbuntuSpec:lucid-qa-checkbox-desktop-experience-tests
<marjo> Desktop Experience Team PPA has been enabled across HW Cert. satellite
<marjo> servers in order to test packages. Attachment has been added to the
<marjo> checkbox-certification package in order to gather information returned from
<marjo> dbusmenu-bench to create metrics across certification hardware.
<marjo> Still targeting for lucid-alpha-3.
<marjo>    * UbuntuSpec:qa-lucid-automated-server-testing
<marjo> Alpha 3 work items are at risk, sbeattie working to resolve test
<marjo> integration blockers
<marjo> that's it from QA team
<marjo> any questions?
<slangasek> marjo: lucid-qa-checkbox-desktop-experience-tests shows as 0 of 4 workitems completed; is this still on track for a3?
<marjo> yes, see above notes
<marjo> re progress made overnight
<slangasek> ok
<marjo> after consulting w/ cr3, will change wording of work items, if appropriate
<slangasek> no other questions from me; anyone else?
<marjo> slangasek: thx!
<davidbarth> marjo: i think we only need a hook to get packages out of our ppa in the test images and then a hook to trigger a test script within the packages
<marjo> davidbarth: ack
<marjo> that would be sufficient integration, i think
<marjo> will work w/ cr3 on finishing up
<marjo> w/ your team's feedback
<davidbarth> ok
<marjo> thx davidbarth
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Server Team
<MootBot> New Topic:  Server Team
<slangasek> marjo: thanks
<ttx> o/
<slangasek> ttx: hi
<ttx> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/ReleaseStatus
<ttx> Server Alpha3/Milestoned Bugs:
<ttx> bug 524258: cloud-init update check code is not enabled (smoser)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 524258 in cloud-init "update check code is not enabled" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/524258
<slangasek> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/ReleaseStatus
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/ReleaseStatus
<ttx> This is ready, pending some cloud-init upload
<ttx> (more on this later)
<ttx> High/Essential specs at < 90% completion:
<ttx> server-lucid-mysql-5.0 (80%): All work committed, only one test work item left
<ttx> server-lucid-uec-testing (82%): Last work items are about testing Alpha3 candidates next week
<ttx> server-lucid-seeds (80%): Last work item about CTDB MIR, will be dropped if it cannot meet requirements
<ttx> Bugs affecting server, in other teams:
<ttx> Only one blocking a3 spec delivery:
<ttx> bug 524484: upstart fails to build (fixes needed for earlier boothooks)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 524484 in upstart "upstart 0.6.5-2 fails to build" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/524484
<ttx> contains fix for bug 504883
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 504883 in cloud-init "job with "mounted MOUNTPOINT=/ and net-device-up IFACE=eth0" blocks boot" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/504883
 * slangasek nods
<ttx> I think it's pretty straightforward :)
<ttx> Other b ugs:
<ttx> bug 506297: Graphical Ubuntu logo enabled on servers, no more login prompt
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 506297 in plymouth "Graphical Ubuntu logo enabled on servers, no more login prompt" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/506297
<ttx> and the recent bug 524439
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 524439 in console-setup "20100219 Server ISO fails to set up console keyboard correctly" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/524439
<ttx> the combination of both would make the milestone look nasty :)
<slangasek> I can upload 524484 today, rather than waiting for Keybuk to be around again Monday
<ttx> slangasek: great, thanks
<ttx> all bugs targeted to Lucid and milestones to a3
<ttx> We expect to file a few FeatureFreeze exceptions:
<ttx> cloud-init: runcmd feature enabled in cloud-config + possibly moving earlier in the boot sequence, after bug 524484 is fixed
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 524484 in upstart "upstart 0.6.5-2 fails to build" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/524484
<slangasek> console-setup> am going to assign that one to Keybuk, it's probably fallout from the plymouthification change
<ttx> slangasek: yes
<ttx> that's th only one affecting High specs ^
<slangasek> (and even if I could get to it today, I doubt I'd make any headway)
<ttx> the other two are for Low specs:
<ttx> vmbuilder: soren is still working on a few new features, should file FFe on Monday
<ttx> cloud-utils: add euca-run-instances-and-[wait|connect] utility
<ttx> that last one is mostly harmful, but you decide.
<ttx> We don't expect anything else
<ttx> fresh cloud-init ffe request: bug 524516
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 524516 in cloud-init "[FFE] run cloud-init early and add runcmd support" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/524516
<ttx> (that's just-in-time reporting)
<ttx> All for me, questions ?
<slangasek> a little too fresh, ubuntu-release hasn't been subscribed to it :)
<ttx> ah
<ttx> let me parallelize
<slangasek> no questions here; anyone else?
<ttx> slangasek: moving the boot hook earlier in the boot process is the most disruptive "feature"
 * slangasek nods
<ttx> slangasek: could be considered a bug depending on how you look at it
<ttx> We want to land it today rather than next week, if possible
<ttx> so that we have plenty of time to revert it if it proves unstable for any reason
<slangasek> yes, so I'll get upstart fixed so that's possible, but then we still have the "ssh not running" issue that didn't shake out at the sprint
<smoser> slangasek, i have that resolved.
<slangasek> smoser: oh, great
<smoser> the other cloud-init jobs were blocking boot due to imposible 'start on (a nd b)' combinations.
<slangasek> ah
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Mobile Team
<MootBot> New Topic:  Mobile Team
<slangasek> ttx, smoser: thanks
<slangasek> asac: hi
<asac> hi
<asac> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/ReleaseStatus/Lucid#preview
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/ReleaseStatus/Lucid#preview
<asac> damn preview ;)
<asac> so we were able to verify that our X0 dove boards are good
<asac> still testing, bceause we had a kernel issue half of the week
<asac> i also added "firefox yahoo rollout" to the summary, because that occupied me quite some time this week
<asac> on work items:
<slangasek> asac: is that bug #522834?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 522834 in linux-mvl-dove "Dove X0 fails to boot past uncompressing the kernel" [Critical,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/522834
<asac> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/canonical-mobile.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/canonical-mobile.html
<asac> slangasek: ack thanks.
<slangasek> (ah, bug closed since last night, ok)
<asac> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/canonical-mobile-lucid-alpha-3.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/canonical-mobile-lucid-alpha-3.html
<asac> i tried to postpone most stuff that wasnt done today ... will review another time after the meeting
<asac> so probably important for this meeting the potential post a3 items
<asac> * mobile-lucid-arm-gcc-v7-thumb2: green light for rebuild after a3
<asac> * mobile-lucid-arm-lightweightbrowser: security team decision pending
<asac> -> this one is most likely a no
<asac> security team and me agree mostly that it would be better not pushed into lucid+1
<asac> there might be push back from other stakeholders though ... so lets cross fingers
<asac> (chromium)
<slangasek> when do you expect that security team decision?
<asac> the other two blueprints we still would really like to see getting done are the webservice specs
<jdstrand> slangasek: we'll likely review it today
<asac> slangasek: once kees is up ... i want him to give his NO on the MIR bug
<slangasek> ok
<asac> or YES fwiw ;)
<asac> slangasek: the webservice specs are definitly none-intrusive. my internel almost-hard deadline for the implementation is end of next week. if we dont have that by then, we will develop it outside of the archive most likely
<asac> point is that without them we wont have office on arm and email is really just a mailto: handler that parses the mailto: url and opens the proper webmail url based on the users choice of webmail provider
<asac> slangasek: of course we would file FFe bugs once we know that those happen
<asac> or do you want that bug up-front?
<slangasek> those are the medium-priority specs mobile-lucid-arm-webservice-for-{email,office} +
<slangasek> ?
<asac> yes
<slangasek> if you don't know yet whether you want it in the archive, no need to file the FFe yet
<asac> slangasek: right. how much delay would release team be ok to accept? i guess you need to see the code first?
<slangasek> not necessarily
<pitti> for the web services links?
<asac> pitti: its not links only
<asac> pitti: its a mailto: handler for email that does some nice stuff
<slangasek> most FFes are done based on a description of what's being uploaded, not the code
<asac> and for office its an auto import/view on the web
<pitti> well, I guess there's some .desktop file and some glue code around it
<ogra> mime types too very likely
<asac> more or less yes, pitti
<asac> right. i consider mime-types to be part of auto import/view ...
<asac> anyway, i will file the bugs with info we have now
<asac> thats it from our side.
<asac> questions
<asac> ?
<slangasek> asac: the number of thumb2 FTBFS bugs targeted at a3 has gone down some since this morning, but not much; are these others still in progress, or are they going to need deferred to beta-1?
<slangasek> and does the slow progress here mean more resources need to be thrown at them?
<asac> slangasek: i will push them to beta-1 ... and if we get fixes before a3, just upload (if its before the freeze)
<ogra> i think thats a constant task
<asac> slangasek: the list is quite short. we should be fine
<slangasek> ok
<asac> slangasek: problem is that this week half of the team was travelling for two days ;)
<slangasek> ah
<asac> slangasek: i will just retarget them. those are just bugs that need to get fixed for release
<slangasek> any other questions for Mobile?
<asac> of course the sooner the better
<asac> (thats why i used the early a3 target initially)
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Kernel Team
<MootBot> New Topic:  Kernel Team
<asac> thanks
<slangasek> asac: thanks
<ogra> thanks
<slangasek> apw: hi
<apw> hi
<apw> Overall Kernel Team status is summarised at the first URL below, including the items called out in the agenda.  Alpha-3 activity is summarised at the second URL below, of which we have completed approximatly 65%.  We remain above the line on our burn-down chart (at the third URL below), but are still making progress.
<apw> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Lucid
<apw> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Lucid#Milestone%20lucid-alpha-3
<apw> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/canonical-kernel-team.svg
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Lucid
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Lucid#Milestone%20lucid-alpha-3
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/canonical-kernel-team.svg
<apw> We have suspend/resume testing going on this week at SCALE.  The ubuntu delta tasks are close to complete with the final driver being dropped.  AppArmour has just been updated again and almost all tasks there are complete.  On boot performance we are within budget and the 5s usb-id bug is now fixed.  Of the ARM bugs picked out one is closed, one should be fixed awaiting feedback, one we have patches, and last is under investigations.
<apw> We thought we had uploaded the last kernel for the Alpha-3 freeze, but it seems toolchains have just been uploaded so there will have to be a rebuild there.  Otherwise we have a reasonable kernel ready for Alpha-3.  Marvell Dove has been brought up to the same level and tested to boot with the hardware we have.  Freescale IMX51 also has been tested, and is unlikely to change before Alpha-3.
<apw> We have had a lot of discussions this week about the quality of the DRM stack particularly with respect to ATI KMS.  Upstream is basically calling 2.6.32 unmaintainable for DRM.  The upstream position is that we should be takeing a complete DRM backport; and is suggesting that other distros are already doing this.  We are investigating the options here.
<apw> ... done
<slangasek> hmm, HTTP 500 from wiki.ubuntu.com
<slangasek> ah, cleared up
<pitti> just got it as well, but works agian
<apw> was going to say looks ok here ...
<slangasek> apw: these other three kernel bugs are all still targeted to alpha-3; are any of these going to be included in the toolchain rebuild upload?
<apw> slangasek, the arm ones you pulled out.  they arn't with the distro kernel anyhow
<apw> i'll find out monday i suspect as its 'christmas' in .cn this week
<persia> New Years.
<apw> i beleieve we have bootable kernels for them all right now, the other fixes may have to wait till right after the un-freeze
<slangasek> "aren't with the distro kernel" - not sure what that means?  they're open tasks on the kernel packages
<apw> ahh miss thinking there, of course i need to upload them alll cause of GCC ... recompile tastic
<apw> i will try and get any that are ready in, due to the time it takes we may not get them in time and get a build in before tuesday end
<slangasek> ok; you'll retarget those that don't get included?
<apw> ack
<slangasek> apw: kernel-lucid-boot-performance only has one outstanding workitem for alpha-3, but it's a doozy - is that still on your radar for the coming week?
<slangasek> (investigate readahead by inode number)
<apw> yeah thats on my adgenda for next week
<slangasek> ok
<apw> i have a re-sync with all the 'investigate' type items planned for next monday
<slangasek> no other questions here; anyone else?
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Desktop Team
<MootBot> New Topic:  Desktop Team
<slangasek> apw: thanks
<slangasek> pitti: hi
<pitti> o/
<pitti> Spec/bug status: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus
<pitti> By and large we are done with our alpha-3 work items. Except for desktop-lucid-social-from-the-start, which still needs some packaging changes, MIR, and seeding (all in progress); some bits got postponed, like the new plymouth artwork freeze (which has time until UIF), and some X.org bug harvesting scripts (which are not bound by the release cycle, and just became victim of higher urgency tasks)
<pitti> The most "interesting" issue that we have right now is bug 507148.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 507148 in xserver-xorg-video-ati "[lucid] desktop runs out of video memory on ATI Radeon Mobility 7500" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/507148
<pitti> This was discussed quite extensively in #u-devel earlier today, and right now it looks like we'll need to backport the linux 2.6.33 drm to our kernel (same like Fedora); it seems drm in 2.6.32 is pretty much doomed, buggy, and unsupported. apw kindly agreed to checking feasibility.
<slangasek> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus
<pitti> hm, of course apw beat me to this report-wise
<pitti> Specs called out in release team meeting invitation:
<pitti> - desktop-lucid-default-apps: Remaining WI is a new feature in F-Spot which was just applied to the 0.7 branch; it does not have a release yet, and it's not clear whether it'll be stable by beta-1. Ken now worked on a backport and has a first version available in a PPA; did not make it into alpha-3, but believed to be fixable for beta.
<pitti> - desktop-lucid-new-firefox-support-model: The alpha-3 tasks of this spec are all done; there is one extra (localize the Yahoo search engine start page) which is all done in langpack-o-matic, and just waiting for the new langpack export to happen over this weekend.
<Riddell> Kubuntu?
<Riddell>  * generally in a good position for feature freeze
<Riddell>  * Qt 4.6.2 still not packaged, waiting on patch from upstream
<Riddell>  * KOffice 2 also still due, packaging is progressing
<Riddell>  * Mozilla approved the KDE integration patches to firefox yesterday, asac reviewing for inclusion
<Riddell>  * Kubuntu Netbook Remix now in a working state for Lucid
<Riddell>  * kdebindings not compiling on ARM (the important bits do compile so we can just work around the unimportant bits)
<slangasek> pitti: AIUI, the plymouth theme change involves much more than just artwork; I don't think UIF is the right target there
<Riddell>  * main blocker for alpha 3 is installer currently broken, I think it's cross desktop bug 523648
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 523648 in ubiquity "install.py crashed with AssertionError in __init__() [regression from 2.1.20]" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/523648
<Riddell>  * AMD64 CD still not over mysql breakage but should now be fixed and tomorrow's CD should not be oversized
<Riddell>  * https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kubuntu/Todo
<pitti> ah, speaking of which, I got the desktop CDs to build finally, but they are still oversized despite some langpack chopping
<pitti> FF was quite a hit apparently
<pitti> I'll still work on that
<slangasek> pitti: ok; feel free to hand off to me any remaining items that need investigating for CD size at EOD today
<pitti> questions anyone?
<pitti> slangasek: I'd like to compare alpha-2 CDs to the current ones, to see what sticks out
 * slangasek nods
<pitti> </desktop> apparently then
<slangasek> yep, no more questions here - thanks!
<slangasek> [TOPIC] DX Team
<MootBot> New Topic:  DX Team
<davidbarth> hi
<slangasek> davidbarth: hi
<davidbarth> so, relase status as usual at: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopExperienceTeam/LucidReleaseStatus
<davidbarth> we've landed modules destined for alpha-3 yesterday
<davidbarth> details at: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopExperienceTeam/LucidWeeklyReleases
<slangasek> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopExperienceTeam/LucidReleaseStatus
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopExperienceTeam/LucidReleaseStatus
<davidbarth> generally quite a lot of new packages, and the end of the dbusmenu/indicate infrastructure
<slangasek> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopExperienceTeam/LucidWeeklyReleases
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopExperienceTeam/LucidWeeklyReleases
<davidbarth> now we have even more dynamic menus, to finish the messaging indicator!
<davidbarth> ie, apps can register desktop actions in their desktop files, and override that at runtime with other particular action items
<slangasek> davidbarth: dx-lucid-gtk-improvements seems to say the changes still need to be integrated in the package; I agree this should be done for alpha-3 - is this on-track?
<davidbarth> apart from that excitment...
<slangasek> "for alpha-3" -> "ASAP, now that we're past feature freeze"
<davidbarth> cs-deco is in gtk as of yesterday evening
<slangasek> so that workitem status should be updated?
<davidbarth> so that has landed already
<slangasek> ok
<davidbarth> yes
<davidbarth> seb128 created a special gtk-csd tag to track issues created by that gtk patch
<davidbarth> (can't find the bug link, but there are a few that are being worked on right now)
<davidbarth> dx-lucid-xsplash
<davidbarth> no progresses on the x11-plugin (xsplash replacement); postponed to beta-1
<davidbarth> so we're late on this one
<davidbarth> ie the move to xsplash being an x11 plugin of plymouth
<slangasek> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/dx-lucid-xsplash doesn't reflect that this has been postponed, AFAICS
<slangasek> (marked as "INPROGRESS")
<davidbarth> right, need to update that too; cody has that back on his plate next week, but we prefered to focus on gtk
 * slangasek nods
<davidbarth> gtk being "roughly behind us now", xsplash gets more of bratsche's bandwidth
<davidbarth> for the rest, the details are in the report: quickly
<davidbarth> dx-lucid-application-indicator
<davidbarth> Implementation completed; maintenance mode now
<davidbarth> #524150 has been fixed and uploaded as a distro patch this afternoon
<davidbarth> so a3 is safe with the session menu, even if you're not running gdm
<davidbarth> dx-lucid-sound-indicator
<davidbarth> several bug fixes (incl. mousewheel support in the right direction)
<davidbarth> support for output device switching
<davidbarth> dx-lucid-me-menu
<davidbarth> bug fixes and support for the "me" entry
<davidbarth> sorry, not #524150, that one is blocking app. indicator porters; currently being worked on
<davidbarth> dx-lucid-session-menu
<davidbarth> Implementation complete; maintenance mode
<davidbarth> 506683: indicator-applet doesn't show menu choices when selected
<davidbarth> that last one ^^ is now fixed and released
<slangasek> hurray :)
<davidbarth> yeah ;)
<slangasek> (been fixed for me here for a while now, glad to see it's now fixed for everyone)
<davidbarth> that's it for the report
<davidbarth> dx questions?
<davidbarth> well, there were probably two issues in this bug
 * slangasek nods
<davidbarth> but the first one was masking another error
<slangasek> no questions here
<slangasek> anyone else?
<davidbarth> glad we kept it under the radar
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Foundations Team
<MootBot> New Topic:  Foundations Team
<marjo> davidbarth: thx for the fix to 506683
<slangasek> davidbarth: thanks
<slangasek> is there anyone here representing Foundations this week?  (cjwatson is off today)
<slangasek> [ACTION] slangasek to check with cjwatson Monday on status of Foundations a3 spec work
<MootBot> ACTION received:  slangasek to check with cjwatson Monday on status of Foundations a3 spec work
<slangasek> ScottK: foundations-lucid-supportable-binaries> if you've given me a link to the build test results, I think I've misplaced it; I could help unblock that if I had access to the data
<slangasek> ScottK: (I think cjwatson has it, but we didn't get a chance to look at this during the sprint)
<slangasek> no sense in dwelling on the rest of these specs, I think, unless others have questions?
<persia> lucas sent it to the mailing list a couple weeks back: I'll hand you a URL if ScottK doesn't soon enough
<slangasek> oh, that mailing list post has the details?  ok, great
<slangasek> I can pull it from there
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Security Team
<MootBot> New Topic:  Security Team
<slangasek> jdstrand: hi
<persia> Not details, but a link to the rebuild failures :)
<jdstrand> hi
<jdstrand> as always: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/ReleaseStatus/Lucid
<jdstrand> we are in good shape for alpha-3
<slangasek> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/ReleaseStatus/Lucid
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/ReleaseStatus/Lucid
<jdstrand> we finished all the stuff assigned to us
<slangasek> well done :)
<jdstrand> as for our essential bps, they are coming along-- the one assigned to kees in the above link actually has only one outstanding item that is assigned to me, and not tied to FF
<jdstrand> thanks :) though we don't have nearly as much as other people due to our other obligations
<jdstrand> the slow progress bp of mine (security-lucid-libvirt-apparmor-devel
<jdstrand> ) does not have new features, and are just bug fixes
<jdstrand> overall, we are in good shape for release
<jdstrand> that's pretty much it from me
<slangasek> ok
<slangasek> any questions for security?
<slangasek> [TOPIC] MOTU
<MootBot> New Topic:  MOTU
<slangasek> jdstrand: thanks
<jdstrand> sure! :)
<slangasek> no ScottK or sistpoty today
<slangasek> persia: do you have anything you think is worth mentioning wrt MOTU?
<persia> How is the motu-release/ubuntu-release merge progressing?  Is that complete?
<persia> slangasek: I've not been following release issues closely.  I know there's heaps of NBS and FTBFS.  There's an issue with libSDL that the squeeze version doesn't work with some stuff we have, and the lucid version doesn't work with others.
<slangasek> still some details being sorted out on list; the freeze exception process wiki will need updated.  Once that's all done, I'll send out another mail to u-d-a
<persia> Dunno of anything else offhand.
<slangasek> (I haven't done the actual team merge in LP yet, I think I can get that done today)
<persia> Excellent.  I have seen requests for freeze exceptions in -motu.
<slangasek> persia: ok - so business as usual then
<slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
<MootBot> New Topic:  AOB
<slangasek> anything more before we adjourn?
<slangasek> anything that has people concerned regarding alpha-3 overall status?
<slangasek> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 11:29.
<slangasek> guess not :)
<slangasek> thanks, all
<apw> slangasek, thanks
<marjo> slangasek: thx!
#ubuntu-meeting 2010-02-20
<YoBoY> Hi
<YoBoY> there is a mistake in the date for the next EMEA membership meeting on this page : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/RegionalBoards/EMEA
<YoBoY> popey : ping
<popey> YoBoY: fixed, thanks!
<YoBoY> :)
<YoBoY> i can put my name on it now ;)
<popey> heh
<YoBoY> done
<Smex> nite all
#ubuntu-meeting 2010-02-21
<skydrome> NGEN
<skydrome> NGEN
<vish> skydrome: ??
<skydrome> ?
#ubuntu-meeting 2011-02-14
<persia> cody-somerville, soren, cjwatson, geser, stgraber, bdrung: about?
<soren> yeah
<cjwatson> hi
<cjwatson> don't we have a new board yet? :)
<persia> We're picking one today, so this is the last for both of you.
<persia> If we fail to get quorum to pick one, I'll pass the information received to the TB, and so there will be one for next time.
<persia> stgraber, cody-somerville, bdrung ?
<persia> Just need one more.
<cjwatson> sigh
<persia> Right.  I don't want to chair a non-meeting.
<persia> cjwatson, soren: Thanks a lot for serving on the DMB.  You will be missed.
<persia> I'll ask the TB to select a new DMB from the nominees, with the poll data.
<persia> And the new DMB can process the pending applications.
<cjwatson> You're welcome; bye!
<cjwatson> oh wait
 * geser waves
<persia> Oh, hey geser!
<cjwatson> aha, quorum
<persia> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 06:15. The chair is persia.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<persia> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperMembershipBoard/Agenda
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperMembershipBoard/Agenda
<persia> [TOPIC] Selection of a new DMB
<MootBot> New Topic:  Selection of a new DMB
 * persia ends the poll
 * Amaranth rushes to vo....oh
<Amaranth> ;)
<persia> So, we had some nominees, and we had a poll.
<persia> Results are now available, with 93 voters.
<persia> [LINK] http://www.cs.cornell.edu/w8/~andru/cgi-perl/civs/results.pl?id=E_924ef5b8e9f6d03b
<geser> not bad
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://www.cs.cornell.edu/w8/~andru/cgi-perl/civs/results.pl?id=E_924ef5b8e9f6d03b
<persia> So, do we wish to accept the winning set from CIVS?  Any reservations or concerns?
 * bdrung is here now.
<soren> persia: lgtm
<cjwatson> so all incumbents stay, and Laney and maco replace soren and me
<persia> That would be the result, yes.
<cjwatson> fairly tight race around the boundary
 * cdbs came last
<cjwatson> but I don't see a reason to be concerned about the result
<persia> Well, if both of those departing are happy, and since the rest of us have obvious bias, I'll call that agreed.
<persia> [AGREED} New DMB to be the winners of the CIVS poll, without modification or adjustment.
<MootBot> AGREED received: [AGREED} New DMB to be the winners of the CIVS poll, without modification or adjustment.
<Daviey> "None of the above" did particularly poorly.
<cjwatson> does that come into effect after this meeting, or immediately? :)
<cjwatson> (because if immediately, we probably just became inquorate)
<persia> We'd lose quorum if it's immediate.  You're the closest to the TB we have available: how long did the term extension last?
<cjwatson> "does not expect this to be complete until after 14th February", from your original mail
<cjwatson> and the TB agreed to an extension covering that
<cjwatson> so I think it's OK to consider the extension as covering this meeting
<persia> I assert it's still 14th February, as none of us are in New Zealand or points east.
<persia> Moving on.
<cjwatson> the new DMB will need to select their own meeting times, etc., anyway
<persia> [TOPIC] MOTU Application for Sylvestre Ledru
<MootBot> New Topic:  MOTU Application for Sylvestre Ledru
<persia> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/SylvestreLedruMOTU
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/SylvestreLedruMOTU
<persia> The LP link on that page is broken.
<persia> [LINK] https://launchpad.net/~sylvestre
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://launchpad.net/~sylvestre
<cdbs> Why was the page created under the UbuntuDevelopment/ directory?
<cdbs> is there a change in policy?
<cjwatson> no
<persia> No
<cjwatson> wiki layout in "random" shocker :)
<bdrung> the launchpad link is broken
<persia> bdrung, That's why I posted two links :)
<persia> Sylvestre, are you present?
<cjwatson> I've taken the liberty of editing his application to fix the LP link
<persia> He doesn't seem to be present.
<persia> Moving on.
<persia> [TOPIC] Development application for Dave Walker
<MootBot> New Topic:  Development application for Dave Walker
<Daviey> o/
<persia> Daviey is applying for all of MOTU, Server, and Core at the same time.  I trimmed that down to just core-dev.
<Daviey> persia, Yes, but i did want to go through the process for the other two
<persia> Daviey's application has not yet aged the week we request.  Do we wish to review it today, or wait for general comments, and review next time?
<cjwatson> core-dev covers the lot, although it's rational to apply for the lot since that means that if we decline his core-dev application he doesn't need to go through another application cycle for the others
<persia> Daviey, code-dev is a member of both others.
<persia> Indeed.  That's how I read it: if we reject core-dev, we re-review MOTU and Server.
<Daviey> persia, Direct inclusion or through inheritance?
<persia> inheritence.
<persia> But, in practice, it doesn't matter.  You get the badges on LP.  You get accepted by the teams if you're working with them, etc.
<Daviey> persia, yeah, it's just that server-dev is looking  kinda neglected.. so wanted to help raise the membership count addionally.
<soren> Well, not he server package set one.
<soren> s/ he/ the/
<soren> core-dev isn't a member of that team, IIRC.
<Daviey> the package set isn;t quite ready yet, is it cjwatson ?
<soren> Or am I on crack again?
<Daviey> I was under the impression  it was waiting for the first member for the process to be completed
<soren> Yeah, core-dev is not a member of that team.
<cjwatson> the package set exists and AFAIK is administered by the DMB
<persia> No, the process is complete.  At this point, any issues are implementation bugs.
<Daviey> Last time i polled the ACL, server-dev didn't have access.
<cjwatson> indeed, that would imply the DMB delegating permissions
<cjwatson> which is generally a separate discussion from creating a package set
<cjwatson> oh, wait, the DMB owns ubuntu-server-dev
<persia> And I believe we had that discussion at the time server-dev was created, and decided that we would not delegate at this time.
 * Daviey wonders if he can be heard this meeting, but with the final ack being done with now+1 week pending criticism of his application.
<cjwatson> == All uploaders for package set 'ubuntu-server' in 'natty' ==
<cjwatson> Archive Upload Rights for ubuntu-core-dev: archive 'primary', package set 'ubuntu-server' in natty
<cjwatson> Archive Upload Rights for ubuntu-server-dev: archive 'primary', package set 'ubuntu-server' in natty
<cjwatson> so ubuntu-server-dev does have access to the ubuntu-server package set
<persia> So all is good.
<cjwatson> and mathiaz was the first member there
<Daviey> oh... that has been updated since i  last polled then :/
<Daviey> or i am on soren;s crack
<persia> Opinions on questioning Daviey today?  Do any DMB members want more time to develop interesting questions?
<soren> I have perhaps one question.
<soren> Is there anything specific that you intend to work on that's outside of MOTU+ubuntu-server-dev's reach?
<Daviey> soren, yes - I have an interest in the whole platform
<Daviey> Which was one reason i worked on dpkg.
 * soren can relate to that :)
 * bdrung is still reading the application.
<Daviey> The server set isn't exactly complete for my interests.
<soren> ...but if we're not going the process the applicatino today, it doesn't matter anyway.
<Daviey> You can see the difference if you look at the assigned packages for bug purposes and the package set
<Daviey> it's reasonably large.
<persia> cjwatson, geser: are you fine with questioning Daviey today?
<geser> I'm fine
<cjwatson> I'm OK, though I've added a brief endorsement on his application too so don't really have any questions
<Daviey> One of the reasons i've got around to apply, is that i'm finding that I want to work on less - as i'm using up my favours of sponsorship working on things i HAVE to work on, rather than the addition of things i want to work on.
<Daviey> s/apply/applying/
<persia> Daviey, How do you think we can encourage more peer-review by Ubuntu Developers?
<Daviey> persia, well the patch pilot scheme has IMO already made a massive difference to this.
<Daviey> But it still lacks personal attachment.
<soren> People use the patch pilot for peer reviews?
<Daviey> No.
<Daviey> Ah sorry
<soren> Oh.
<Daviey> i missread the question
<persia> Does it?  While I like what patch-pilot is doing for sponsoring, I don't see how it helps peer-review between Ubuntu Developers.
<Daviey> I think UDD can make a larger difference with this.
<Daviey> I don't feel enough people use merge requests.
<cjwatson> what do you mean by peer review?
<Daviey> I agree that JFDI attitude can help productivity
<cjwatson> you mean people who are already Ubuntu developers?  (just clarifying)
<Daviey> cjwatson, Developers that can upload, asking peers to review it before uploading
<cjwatson> ah, right, thanks
<cjwatson> if you understood the question I suppose that's all that matters :)
<Daviey> heh
<Daviey> Yes, well JFDI can aid productivity - but something i have noticed; tradionally the server has often got a little rough end of the deal, when a feature in Desktop is needed
<Daviey> Plymouth introduction was quite bad for Server IMO.
<persia> Do you think encouraging peer review would help that, or do you think we need more coordination between flavours?
<Daviey> And some packages where silly mistakes have been made, could have been avoided if they had a once over.
<soren> Plymouth will end up as a big advantage for server users, too, though.
<Daviey> Some packages i've seen have had almost hacking away at a bug, until it's fixed.
<soren> ...but that's a separate discussion :)
 * persia has seen packages hacked away at until they aren't fixed, but the tests passed
<Daviey> persia, Yeah, i realised as i was typing that; it's two issues really.
<cjwatson> one thing I noticed, as somebody caught in the middle, was that a number of server folks basically had the attitude of "no, it was fine as it was, we want you to rip this all back out" rather than an attitude of trying to improve new packages so that they could cover both server and desktop bases
<Daviey> soren, agreed... but the introduction could have been better handled perhaps.
<persia> So, what's your proposal?  Since you don't like it, and you're wanting to join Core dev...
<cjwatson> do you think this is a fair criticism, is it recognisable to you, and what do you think we can do about it?
<cjwatson> (this is very much something core-devs need to deal with - we're supposed to be integrating, not just picking a side)
<Daviey> cjwatson, interesting... i had not seen that attitude being too obvious.
<Daviey> cjwatson, I know some *users* mentioned that...but not sure it was clear cut within the team
<cjwatson> ok, that's a reasonable response, the boundary wasn't always clear to me
<Daviey> Many of the server team want to see more polish... and on a non-LTS release perhaps making it better is greater than stability on server.
<Daviey> (not desktop or other flavours)
<soren> I cannot count how many hours I've spent on IRC, IRL, on blogs, eetc explaining that event driven boot isn't *just* about speeding things up.
<Daviey> soren, yes, upstart actually has more benefits to server than desktop IMO.
<Daviey> Particulary if upstart adds some of the features it initially blueprinted.
<soren> I can kind of see where people are coming from, though. Stuf that used to work suddenly didn't. It's easy to blame The New, Big Thing[tm].
<Daviey> such as xinetd incorporation.
<persia> So, let's step away from discussing upstart features.
<Daviey> It's unfortunate that this often means increasing the delta with Debian.
<persia> I'm still curious how the issue that makes Daviey unhappy could be addressed.
<Daviey> persia, Something we considered at a team level was peer review of every upload after a certain mark in the release schedule
<Daviey> It wasn't entirely agreed... but there was also some support for this.
<Daviey> This was also discussed at the last UDS...
<persia> Daviey, Did you imagine people would have reviews by people in their immediate teams (with interest in the package), or from other teams?
<Daviey> ... and that was "eventful"... but that was the whole platform, not just a specific area.
<Daviey> persia, both...
<persia> Will you be bringing this issue to next UDS?
<Daviey> If the package is depends/recommends of another team, then the merge proposal is a good way of notifing them of a potential diff
<Daviey> persia, Yes.
<geser> Daviey: isn't this peer-review like a spsonsorship for each upload which seems to slow you down in your productivitiy?
<Daviey> geser, interesting you say that...
<soren> :)
<Daviey> I would like to point out the peer review blog post regarding either bzr/lp... don't have it handy
<Daviey> But i think it might slow people down initially... but a review can be quite fast when in the habbit
<bdrung> Daviey: how can we encourage devs to review packages from other teams? i am doing reviews for the package in the teams i am involved with and doing sponsoring, but i never reviewed packages from outside the team IIRC.
<Daviey> geser, equally, sometimes it's good to be slowed down :)
<Daviey> bdrung, It depends - is this packages outside a set?
<persia> Not all team-maintained packages happen to have corresponding packagesets today.
<bdrung> Daviey: i maintain most packages in Debian
<persia> But for several teams, there are no outside contributions, despite the lack of packageset
<Daviey> bdrung, you must be busy :)
<Daviey> persia, The blog post i'd like to refer you to made specifc references to working outside your comfort zone.
<Daviey> I'd LOVE to be more involved in development outside my daily duties
<Daviey> I think it adds an education factor, and better understanding
<persia> Hrm?  I'm just responding to the question "is this packages outside a set", to indicate that we have a very weak mapping of teams and packagesets currently.
<Daviey> Sometimes doing reviews can be harder than doing the change yourself.. and reviewing outside comfort zone makes everyone better IMO.
<Daviey> persia, Perhaps my response would have been better targeted towards bdrung
 * persia is done with questions
<Daviey> persia, but yes, having good defintions of teams/people linked to packages makes it easier to know who to talk to
<Daviey> It then reduces the need to maintain in-head knowledge
<Daviey> For example, i know not to touch some packages without speaking to certain individuals/teams
<Daviey> And having a good person+team/package list defintion helps new contributors IMO.
<bdrung> Daviey: assuming that i want to have my changes reviewed. then i push the bzr branch with my changes and create a merge proposal. wo will get notified with this merge proposal? what do i need to do to get notified about the packages i care about?
<Daviey> bdrung, It might require a bug against LP, AIUI currently you have to select who reviews it.
<Daviey> I want to add, that i don't think it should be mandatory, but a better ethos of people asking each other,.... perhaps even informal
<bdrung> hm, it would be nice if lp gives you the possibility to subscribe to merge proposals for specific packages and a way to query who is subscribed and has upload rights (= similar to Uploaders in d/control)
<Daviey> What i have said so far, is possibly better continued in a shared UDS session.... and not one chappy spouting his opinions :)
<Daviey> bdrung, agreed!
<bdrung> Daviey: yes, let's continue this discussion on an other channel / next UDS
<persia> Daviey, The key is that this is a time when you have the spotlight to complain, and we have a duty to ensure you can move forward to solve the problem.  You taking it to UDS is the right answer in both cases.
<persia> Anyone else have other questions for Daviey?
<bdrung> no
<soren> no
<cjwatson> not I
<persia> Great.
<persia> Please feel free to vote by email to the d-m-b list, and I'll take a final tally when the comment period completes, with a renewed call for votes in the event that quorum is not reached.
<persia> [TOPIC] Next Meeting
<MootBot> New Topic:  Next Meeting
<cjwatson> why vote by e-mail rather than here?
<Daviey> Oh, and one more thing... i am *sometimes* wrong.  Greater peer review just might not work.. but it'sworth trying - if it doeshelp improve quality.
<persia> I don't want to vote until after the comment period, in case something happens to change my vote.
<cjwatson> in that case I shouldn't vote at all
<persia> Probably not: we'll consider your comment.
<Daviey> ho hum ding.
 * cjwatson sends mail
<persia> So, the newly selected DMB does not have agreement on meeting times.  We'll try to select some by email, and try to announce them by next Monday, to ensure that applicants can know when they have to attend a meeting when applying.
<persia> [TOPIC] Anything else
<MootBot> New Topic:  Anything else
<persia> Anyone have anything here?
<persia> Excellent.
<persia> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 07:11.
<soren> \o/
<persia> Thanks everyone for coming.
<cjwatson> So long and thanks for all the fish!
<bdrung> :)
<Daviey> thanks all for hearing me.
<cjwatson> persia: oh, somebody should take over developer-membership-board@ and devel-permissions@ list administration from me.  Do you want to do it?
<persia> Oh, very much not, but I suppose I ought.  Please do adjust them to me.
<cjwatson> or if somebody else wants it that's fine too
<cjwatson> do you have the passwords?
<persia> And I'll hope I can find another victim from the new DMB.
<persia> I don't believe I have the passwords: I'd appreciate them fresh in any case.
<cjwatson> I'll send you them by encrypted mail
<persia> Thanks.
<persia> How would you like us to make requests for TB-changes to ACLs?  random ping?  mail to you?  Mail to TB?
<cjwatson> mail to TB is probably the right thing
<cjwatson> I'm sure I'll often pick them up, but it would be best not to enshrine myself in a process
<persia> makes sense.  I'll ensure we do that in the future.
<maco> <bdrung> hm, it would be nice if lp gives you the possibility to subscribe to merge proposals for specific packages and a way to query who is subscribed and has upload rights (= similar to Uploaders in d/control)  <-- yes yes yes please
<skaet> hi ara, bjf
<bjf> moin
<ara> hey skaet!
 * charlie-tca waves
 * skaet waves back to charlie-tca 
 * hggdh grabs new coffee
<jibel> Hi all!
 * marjo waves
<skaet> looks like quorum,  so time to start.  :)
<skaet> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 10:01. The chair is skaet.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<skaet> Reminder, please follow the convention  of using ".." on a separate line when you've finished typing.    Also, If someone wants to comment on the last point, please "o/", so we know to wait.
<skaet> This meeting will be focusing on the 10.04.2 release.
 * charlie-tca hides
<skaet> Couple of snags cropped up in the image creation on Friday, and a few more on the sniff testing over the weekend, so want to make sure we're all seeing the same priorities
<ara> sounds like a plan
 * zul waves
<skaet> On the good news front,  hardware cert has mostly finished the 2 week hardware certification runs, and no regressions were found as of last friday.  More details from ara later. :)
<skaet> Images currently under rebuild are Xubuntu, and the K/Ubuntu DVDs.
<skaet> Any questions before I get into the mailed out agenda/round table?
<skaet> ..
<ara> skaet, are we building Xubuntu 10.04.2 images? :)
<skaet> ara, yes they're being rebuilt.
<ara> I thought point releases images were just for Ubuntu
<ara> I guess I was wrong
<charlie-tca> \o
<skaet> charlie-tca, go
<charlie-tca> There are being built by request, for Xubuntu
<charlie-tca> We did not do the .1 release, and wanted to get new stuff into the image, instead of the 352 updates after installing
<charlie-tca> ..
<marjo> charlie-tca: are testers lined up & committed?
<charlie-tca> yes
<marjo> charlie-tca: thx much
<charlie-tca> You are welcome
<skaet> ara, marjo - They are also being built for kubuntu.
<marjo> skaet: ack
<skaet> ok, no more hands, so on to the round table
<skaet> [TOPIC] HW cert results and final image tests planned - ara
<MootBot> New Topic:  HW cert results and final image tests planned - ara
<ara> The HW testing for 10.04.2 went pretty well. We are happy with the coverage we got. The results are available at:
<ara> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~hwcert/point-release-testing/10_04_2.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~hwcert/point-release-testing/10_04_2.html
<ara> The systems that didn't get tested are due to problems of infrastructure or faulty hardware that needs to get replaced, but all in all, I think the results are good enough to give the thumbs up hardware wise.
<skaet> :)
<ara> About the testing of the final images, has anything hardware related changed from the candidate images until now?
<skaet> bjf, sconklin: ^^ ?
<sconklin> Not sure why you called on me, we don't have anything to do with the testing . . .
<skaet> sconklin - has any change gone in in the last 2 weeks that could impact the hardware that you're aware of?
 * skaet thinks not, but is just double checking.
<sconklin> no.
<bjf> you've not taken a new kernel from us during the point release process, so how could it ?
<skaet> bjf, fair enough
<ara> skaet, then, I guess there is no need to test the final images in hardware
<ara> skaet, ?
<skaet> ara,  sorry,  thinking if the boot infrastruture has changed
<skaet> lets assume not unless rest of meeting brings up a good reason then.
<ara> skaet, OK, so that's all from me
<ara> ..
<skaet> [TOPIC] QA sniff testing from weekend and hot issues - jibel
<MootBot> New Topic:  QA sniff testing from weekend and hot issues - jibel
<jibel> 10.04.2 ISO Testing started last weekend and is going well.
<jibel> 2 major issues have been found:
<jibel>  * bug 718749 (rebuild in progress)
<jibel>  * bug 645818 (not a bug in lucid)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 718749 in Ubuntu CD Images "Xubuntu i386 Lucid 10.04.2 images will not boot" [Critical,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/718749
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 645818 in usb-creator (Ubuntu Natty) "10.04.1 image created in Maverick does not boot in my Dell Mini9" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/645818
<jibel> For 645818, we are looking for someone with a Lucid system, to create a bootable usb and confirm that he's not affected by this issue.
<jibel> Last week, we have tested the upgrades from K/Ubuntu Desktop i386/amd64 Hardy and Karmic to 10.04.2.
<jibel> 2 have been found issues found:
<jibel> * bug 715206
<jibel> * bug 715247
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 715206 in gnome-panel (Ubuntu) "9.10 to 10.04.2: The panel encountered a problem while loading "OAFIID:GNOME_ClockApplet"." [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/715206
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 715247 in nautilus (Ubuntu) "8.04.4 -> 10.04.2 upgrade: popup with corba error during upgrade" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/715247
<jibel> Untested images:
<jibel> * Ubuntu Server Installation and upgrade
<jibel> ..
<jibel> any question ?
<zul> do you guys need help with that?
<jibel> hggdh, ^
<hggdh> jibel: sorry, I was not aware I was to test 10.04.2
<jibel> :-)
<jibel> zul, okay we need help then
<hggdh> I spent last week on hardy...
<zul> jibel: ok ill bring it up in the meeting tomorrow then
<jibel> zul, thanks.
<skaet> jibel, how are we going to get testers to work around the maverick/natty bug for creation of 10.04.2 iso cds and usbs?   Is there some good documentation on this somewhere?
<jibel> skaet, For testers I'll send an email to explain the issue, and point them to the bug report.
<skaet> jibel, thanks - that will help.   I'll make sure its documented in release notes.
<jibel> skaet, it's not a nice bug but the workaround is easy.
<skaet> thanks jibel.    any other questions?
<skaet> [TOPIC] Image build status and plans  - cjwatson
<MootBot> New Topic:  Image build status and plans  - cjwatson
<cjwatson> as far as I know most things are green, with the exception of my screwup that broke the Xubuntu images and Ubuntu DVDs (i386 only).  The code bug is fixed and rebuilds are in progress.
<cjwatson> The only build issue I'm aware of is that the following images are oversized: Xubuntu desktop amd64, Xubuntu desktop powerpc, Xubuntu desktop powerpc+ps3, Xubuntu alternate powerpc
<cjwatson> oh, and Kubuntu desktop i386
<cjwatson> I don't know how much we care about those, and about which ones
<skaet> charlie-tca, Riddell,  ^^ ?
 * skaet looks around..
<charlie-tca> we will live with it if I can't get them dow
<charlie-tca> I will get someone to look at the Xubuntu desktop amd64 and try to squeeze it down
<charlie-tca> The other ones, I guess I don't really card so much
<skaet> charlie-tca, ok, thanks.   If we can't squeeze, we'll need to release note, so we should probably open a bug to track.
<charlie-tca> I will do that
<skaet> cjwatson.  I'll follow up with Riddell about Kubuntu after the meeting about Kubuntu
<skaet> any other questions?
<skaet> thanks cjwatson
<skaet> [TOPIC] any new business?
<MootBot> New Topic:  any new business?
<skaet> or issues/concerns about 10.04.2?
<skaet> ok,  thanks for attending,  we'll go back to the regular agenda next meeting.
<pitti> I'm terribly sorry, missed the time
<skaet> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:33.
<charlie-tca> Thanks, skaet
<ara> thanks skaet
<skaet> thanks bjf, sconklin, ara, jibel, cjwatson, charlie-tca
<marjo> thx skaet
<jibel> thanks for chairing skaet
<skaet> thanks marjo
<pitti> skaet: any fires which I need to put out in lucid?
<skaet> pitti,  thanks,  can you look at the bugs that jibel raised, and make sure no kitten killers in them,  cjwatson's handling the image rebuilds.  I'll paste them or the log (if available) to you directly
<pitti> skaet: thanks, will have a look once you paste
<jjohansen> \o
 * jdstrand waves
<JackyAlcine> o/
 * micahg waves
<mdeslaur> hellow
<kees> \o
 * jdstrand waits for sbeattie 
<jdstrand> ok, let's get started
<jdstrand> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 12:05. The chair is jdstrand.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<jdstrand> The meeting agenda can be found at:
<jdstrand> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Review of any previous action items
<MootBot> New Topic:  Review of any previous action items
<jdstrand> only thing from last week is the ia32-libs. aiui, mdeslaur is doing lucid and sbeattie is working on the rest. Since it is assigned I don't think we need to bring it up every week
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly stand-up report
<mdeslaur> jdstrand: I'm doing hardy, not lucid
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: oh, I actually knew that. not sure why I put lucid...
<jdstrand> anyhoo
<jdstrand> I'll go first
<jdstrand> I am on community this week
<jdstrand> Mozilla updates are imminent, so I will be testing and publishing firefox, xul and tbird soon
<jdstrand> I got sidetracked last week by several things and made no progress on dbus/apparmor or dbus-glib update. Hopefully I can start on it again
<jdstrand> Some of those things were profiling gnome thumbnailers, a chromium update, writing aa-disable, patch piloting and a number of meetings
<jdstrand> I'm hoping this week will fair slightly better. micahg starts tomorrow, so I'll be handing off all the browser/mozilla stuff to him in the coming weeks
<jdstrand> I think that's it from me
<jdstrand> kees: you're up
<mdeslaur> oh sweet! hi micahg!
<micahg> hi mdeslaur
<kees> okay
 * jdstrand is *very* happy to have micahg coming on board :)
 * kees hugs micahg
 * micahg hugs kees back
<kees> I've got a few USNs coming up this week
<kees> I'm in happy-place, which means I'm going to try to knock out the gcc testsuite change upstreaming. maybe some more %pK patches to LKML
<kees> honestly, the gcc stuff will probably eat most of my time. running the suite is crazy time-consuming
<kees> I'd like to try to find people to fix the firefox and chromium hardening stuff
<kees> afaik, firefox is still not PIE in natty, and chromium ARM has PIE disabled too
<mdeslaur> :(
<kees> that's it from me...
<jdstrand> kees: is that not PIE for armel/firefox or all archs?
<kees> jdstrand: non-PIE for all archs with firefox
<jdstrand> bummer
<kees> yeah, it's a gcc-4.5 regression. following-up with chrisccoulson has bubbled to near the top of my todo list finally.
<jdstrand> micahg: would you be willing to work with chrisccoulson to conditionally set PIE for non-armel? (assuming it works for non-armel)
<jdstrand> then kees can continue to try to find people to fix armel stuff
<micahg> jdstrand: it was failing before on all arches, but sure :)
<jdstrand> meh
<chrisccoulson> jdstrand, it fails on i386
<jdstrand> well, if it was failing everywhere, it sounds like chrisccoulson already knows about it
<kees> yeah, I'm pretty sure the chromium and firefox PIE issues are separate
 * jdstrand nods
<chrisccoulson> jdstrand, the behaviour is unique to the i386 implementation of TLS
<chrisccoulson> but i need to refresh my memory on the issue again ;)
<jdstrand> chrisccoulson: cool. it would be great to not regress on this issue for natty release
<jdstrand> I would think upstream would be interested in this too...
<kees> the arm-pie-chromium issue is technically not a regression (it's been disabled for a while). I just want to also get it fixed.
<jdstrand> kees: actually, on lucid it was only recently turned off
<jdstrand> I'm not sure if that is because only recently people noticed or because it recently broke
<kees> jdstrand: right, but my understanding was that it was due to chromium version bumps
<kees> i.e. it became new enough that someone hit it. or something. dunno; this is why I want to spend some time to investigate and delegate. :)
<jdstrand> I don't know the cause. I do consider disabling pie in a security update, regardless of version bumping, as a regression
<jdstrand> of course, there isn't a lot we can do there...
 * kees nods
<jdstrand> kees: I appreciate you looking into it! :)
 * sbeattie is here, reading scrollback
<mdeslaur> my turn?
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: as kees mentioned that was it from him, why don't you go
<mdeslaur> So, I'm currently testing fuse updates, and will release them once lucid's fuse package in -proposed gets released
<mdeslaur> Besides that, I need to take a look at ffmpeg
<mdeslaur> and still have work to do on apparmor-profiles
<mdeslaur> I also have some gnome-screensaver fixes I want to push to natty, and possibly SRU into lucid and maverick
 * sbeattie saw mdeslaur's commits to the apparmor-profiles tree; nice start!
<mdeslaur> and there was another package I wanted to work on this week...but...it slips my mind right now (d'oh!)
<mdeslaur> that's it from me
 * sbeattie takes his turn.
<sbeattie> I have a krb5 update that I'll release once this meeting is over.
<sbeattie> I have an openssl update for right afterward, though I need to do a little more testing with it.
<sbeattie> I made some progress on apparmor release stuff, and have more to do on that this week.
<sbeattie> That's pretty much it for me.
<jdstrand> sbeattie: I've seen a lot of those reviews. some of it should be quite nice (especially the opensuse stuff you slurped in)
<sbeattie> thanks.
<jdstrand> micahg: I know you only officially start tomorrow, but is there anything you'd like to mention? typically we mention what we hope to work on in the coming week, and occasionally work that we did last week as it might affect this week (or that is particularly cool)
<jdstrand> micahg: it is ok to say 'no'. I know I just sprung this on you :)
<micahg> Finish getting set up, I'd like to start looking at the webkit update, 1.2.7 is out
<jdstrand> sounds great
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
<MootBot> New Topic:  Miscellaneous and Questions
<jdstrand> One thing sbeattie mentioned to me last week is vendor-sec tracking
<jdstrand> I'll let him expand on it if he wants, but the basic idea is that we treat it as quite ad-hoc
<jdstrand> whoever happens to see something, mentions it
<jdstrand> eg, the last postgresql update
<jdstrand> we knew about it early, but we didn't let pitti know, and basically reacted to it
<jdstrand> I wonder if this could be improved more?
<jdstrand> we could try to use the CVE-2011-NNNX method more often
<mdeslaur> jdstrand: did you have anything in mind?
<kees> I've found the vsec threads difficult to really "triage" until they're reached a certain stage
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: not really, this is just open for discussion (beyond what I just mentioned)
<jdstrand> kees: yes, I tend to agree
<jdstrand> I also don't tend to update my embargoed branch very often...
<kees> sometimes there are weeks between something being brought up and it being remotely actionable.
<jdstrand> true. that was indeed the case with postgres, iirc
 * sbeattie wondered if he just needs better management of that particular email folder.
<jdstrand> perhaps it would be best to identify any problems with the current system, and then see if we actually need to fix them
<jdstrand> sbeattie: are there particular things you find lacking?
<sbeattie> the concern I have is us not noticing stuff that comes through vendor-sec, because it comes in a mish-mash of stuff we don't as much about, because there's other active threads that are developing fixes that "drown" out other issues.
<sbeattie> s/don't/don't care/
<jdstrand> I think that is a valid concern
<jdstrand> what do others think?
<sbeattie> Was wondering if there was a light-weight way of coordinating that we can ignore certain threads, should watch others for deveopling fixes, etc.
<micahg> maybe if one person can keep an eye on vendor-sec each week?
<kees> traditionally this is the person doing "triage"
<jdstrand> we could do something like what we do with USN assignments-- a one line assessment in a file...
<jdstrand> I'm not sure how helpful that would be...
<mdeslaur> I think vendor-sec is important enough that we all should be looking at it, not just the triage person
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: what are your thoughts?
<kees> I don't exactly see a specific problem to solve yet.
<mdeslaur> bug, that being said
<kees> mdeslaur: that's fair
<jdstrand> I was on triage last week
<mdeslaur> I think we should make sure to call out any packages we see that appear there, and make sure someone takes responsability for it
<jdstrand> I mentioned only one item
<mdeslaur> whether it be in a file or not
<mdeslaur> if we notice that we're skipping some, I think we can move into doing the CVE-XXXX stuff, or even a simple file
<jdstrand> in a way, this is preassignment
<mdeslaur> so, in the case of postgresql, what exactly did we do wrong there?
<mdeslaur> we didn't notify pitti?
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: in that case, pitti told us about it, when we actually had the info
<mdeslaur> when we saw something about postgresql, did we just assume pitti would be telling us about it?
<jdstrand> well, without divulging too much info
<jdstrand> there was a question posted regarding notifying upstream
<jdstrand> the answer was that upstream was notified
<jdstrand> then it sat there until pitti told us about it
<jdstrand> but, the issuing wasn't critical
<jdstrand> s/issuing/issue/
<jdstrand> we all probably read the thread
<jdstrand> I know I wasn't thinking it was a huge deal at the time
<mdeslaur> I'm sorry...I though pitti _was_ postgresql upstream
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: he is the debian maintainer
<mdeslaur> oh!
<jdstrand> he does not do upstream postgresql afaik
<mdeslaur> ah, I thought he did, so I'm mistaken
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: and he happens to provide updates for -security out of tradition
<mdeslaur> so...we couldn't have told him anyway
<jdstrand> yes we could have
<mdeslaur> hmm
<jdstrand> we are allowed to let developers who work on it know
<jdstrand> eg, kernel embargoed stuff
<jdstrand> they just have to know not to talk about it, etc
<jdstrand> in fact, pitti may have already known
<jdstrand> which I think is part of the problem in this particular case-- we didn't communicate
<jdstrand> but then again, I wasn't thinking it was world-burning and a 0day we had to jump on
<jdstrand> at least, as I recall from reading the thread from weeks ago
<jdstrand> so, ok, let's drive this to resolution
<jdstrand> a) is there a problem? b) if there is, is the answer pre-assigning?
<jdstrand> I'm not sure there is a problem, per se
<sbeattie> jdstrand: are you sure you're thinking of the right vuln? I don't see a "thread" about it, just a singlepost.
<jdstrand> hold on
<jdstrand> sbeattie: yes, I was. I responded privately
<jdstrand> so, postgres aside
<jdstrand> 12:47 < jdstrand> a) is there a problem? b) if there is, is the answer pre-assigning?
<jdstrand> kees, sbeattie, mdeslaur: ^ opinions?
<jdstrand> micahg: ^
<sbeattie> right, the fear is that, if we didn't this particular postgresql issue until we were prompted from pitti, are we letting other things slip through the cracks.
 * micahg doesn't know whether or not there's a problem yet :)
<sbeattie> heh
<mdeslaur> well, whatever slips through the cracks simply shows up after CRD
<mdeslaur> it's not as if we're skipping updates altogether
<jdstrand> right
<mdeslaur> of course, we need to publish stuff at CRD
<jdstrand> and we jump all over the world-burning stuff
<mdeslaur> and I think everybody needs to read vendor-sec and make sure someone's got the ball on things we spot
<jdstrand> well, that is a gray area
<mdeslaur> I think postgresql is a bad example in this case
<jdstrand> I mean, we don't need to jump on a low issue
<mdeslaur> yes, and there are low issues on vendor-sec...and universe stuff also
<jdstrand> many mediums we probably don't, though it is nice if we do
<jdstrand> alright
<kees> perhaps we should put stuff into the embargoed tree once a CVE has been assigned on vsec, or if it's serious enough with a very short CRD
<jdstrand> kees: that is a good idea
<jdstrand> if it has a CVE, put it in embargoed
<jdstrand> tbh, we should have ben doing that all along
<jdstrand> I certainly haven't
<kees> right
<kees> but they develop so slowly that it can span triagers
<jdstrand> yeah
<jdstrand> well, so we need to be updating our embargoed tree daily probably
<kees> so perhaps the current triager should add CVEs, and update changing CRDs
<jdstrand> and then as we see CVEs assigned in vsec, we add them
 * jdstrand nods
<mdeslaur> and skip everything that doesn't have a CVE? :P
<kees> but, as mdeslaur says, we should probably all read it
<jdstrand> others can check/follow-up with the triager
<mdeslaur> seems to be that doesn't solve the problem :P
<jdstrand> agreed
<jdstrand> I think it does
<jdstrand> it is tracked
<jdstrand> it'll show up in cve_todo
<mdeslaur> only stuff that has a CVE gets tracked
<kees> mdeslaur: if something is coming fast without a CVE, it should get the CVE-2011-NNN1 or whatever
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: or high priority stuff
<jdstrand> then we use the convention kees just mentioned
<mdeslaur> ok, so triager adds everything he sees to embargoed tree
<jdstrand> when a cve is assigned, we bzr mv CVE-2011-NNN1 ...
<jdstrand> I don't think so
<kees> (and update the internal name)
<jdstrand> all CVEs assignments
<jdstrand> s/CVEs/CVE/
<jdstrand> high priority or higher get CVE-2011-NNNX
<jdstrand> but that is my opinion
<mdeslaur> ok
<mdeslaur> what about stuff not in main, we ignore it?
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: yes
<jdstrand> (again, my opinion)
<jdstrand> well, ignore it in terms of CVE-2011-NNNX
<jdstrand> ok
<mdeslaur> jdstrand: so if it does get a cve, but is not in main, we add it to embargoed anyway?
<jdstrand> I think that is fair
<jdstrand> most of that ends up in oss-security anyway
<jdstrand> (ie, not much maintenance work)
<mdeslaur> ok
<jdstrand> to summarize:
<jdstrand> if has CVE with CRD, add to embargoed
<jdstrand> if no CVE, but is officially supported and high priority, add to embargoed
<jdstrand> (with CVE-YYYY-NNNX)
<jdstrand> everyone reads the list
<mdeslaur> ok
<jdstrand> the triager adds
<sbeattie> +1 from me
<mdeslaur> what about CVE with no CRD?
<jdstrand> kees, mdeslaur, sbeattie, micahg: ^ will that address the concerns/issues appropriately?
<kees> mdeslaur: skip it, I think.
<jdstrand> I agree
<kees> jdstrand: sounds good; I've updated the Duties page
<jdstrand> kees: thanks! :)
<mdeslaur> ok, +1
<jdstrand> well
<jdstrand> actually, if it is supported, with a CVE but no CRD, we should ad it
<jdstrand> otherwise skip
<jdstrand> (that way it still shows up in our cve todo list
<jdstrand> )
<jdstrand> which gives us an opportunity to be reminded to followup with upstream, etc
<jdstrand> kees, mdeslaur, sbeattie: ^
<jdstrand> micahg: ^
<mdeslaur> jdstrand: that sounds good
<kees> +1
<micahg> sounds good to me
<kees> (Duties re-updated)
<sbeattie> +1
<jdstrand> micahg: you are not under my fingertips just yet :)
<jdstrand> cool
<jdstrand> ok
<jdstrand> so, that is it from me
<jdstrand> does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
<micahg> just an update on Mozilla stuff
<micahg> no release today, on a day-to-day slip
<jdstrand> thank goodness
<jdstrand> I was going to be hardpressed to get it tested by eod
<micahg> jdstrand: I wouldn't bother, there might be new builds
<jdstrand> micahg: what is the new date?
<micahg> jdstrand: when it's ready :)
<jdstrand> micahg: and that is tentatively when? :)
<micahg> jdstrand: they didn't say, I think they're hoping for tomorrow, but can't promise
<jdstrand> well, then I need to test the current builds
<jdstrand> otherwise I'll be hours to a day late
<jdstrand> (depending on when they push it out)
<jdstrand> anyhoo
<jdstrand> I'll talk to you in #ubuntu-mozillateam
<jdstrand> I think that's it then
<jdstrand> thanks everyone! :)
<jdstrand> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 13:14.
<mdeslaur> thanks jdstrand!
<sbeattie> jdstrand: thanks!
<micahg> jdstrand: thanks :)
<kees> thanks jdstrand :)
<jdstrand> sure!
#ubuntu-meeting 2011-02-15
<persia> lifeless, elky, Vantrax, e-jat, takdir, freeflying, amachu : meeting starting in a few minutes.  Let's make sure enough of us are here in advance.
<lifeless> 11pm
<lifeless> kinda here
<freeflying> should be here
<persia> Right.  Need one more.
<czajkowski> persia: i'm about if you need one more
<persia> Well, let's make sure we have some candidates then :)
<persia> ogitux, You seem to be the only candidate on our list currently in -meeting.  Are you up for your membership review now?
<sagaci> is this Asia-Oceania meeting or the Community Council meeting
<udienz> sagaci, Asia/Oceania meeting
<persia> sagaci, Asia-Oceania.  Community Council would be in an hour, although the agenda doesn't have any specific items, so there may not be a formal meeting this week.
<sagaci> no worries, I had a look at the calendar but I'm not good with timezones
<persia> Well, looks like ogitux quit.
<udienz> persia, wait..
<udienz> ogitux says me he try to got new connections
<persia> udienz, Ah, OK.
<udienz> he will reconnect soon
<ogitux> sorry dc
<sagaci> yay
<persia> Right then.
<persia> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 04:11. The chair is persia.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<persia> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/RegionalBoards/AsiaOceania
<persia> [TOPIC] Membership application for Adnan Kashogi (ogitux)
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/RegionalBoards/AsiaOceania
<MootBot> New Topic:  Membership application for Adnan Kashogi (ogitux)
<persia> [LINK] http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Adnan_Kashogi
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Adnan_Kashogi
<persia> ogitux, Please introduce yourself.
<ogitux> My name is Adnan kashogi I live in jakarta Indonesia, the activity of my work and college, I worked in the IT Staff and I went to college majoring in information systems
<ogitux> I joined in ubuntu members to develop open source in my country, I now also active in BlankOn Linux as a team Packager
<ogitux> enough
<persia> Yes.  Looking at your wiki page, you have a lot of sections, but not much content.  What have you been doing for Ubuntu?
<ogitux> persia:I have been active in mailing list ubuntu - and so did my irc help translate the Indonesian translator. to witnesses here udienz
<czajkowski> ogitux: but your wiki page doesnt mention any of this work
<ogitux> czajkowski: I forgot to prepare my constraints on the wiki wiki recording was just being my friends can see my activity on the account launchpad
<czajkowski> ogitux: https://launchpad.net/~vmlokal/+karma
<persia> ogitux, Do you want to try to document stuff on the wiki page for the next meeting, or explain your activities in depth now?
<czajkowski> shows here you were very active in the last few hours, then a few days ago.
<ogitux> persia: ok
<ogitux> my activity not only in the launchpad, but I work, dimilis, and irc
<persia> What are dimilis?
<ogitux> at milis and irc
 * udienz supporting ogitux
<ogitux> udienz: thx :)
<persia> Anyone else have questions?
<ogitux> udienz: is my partner in ubuntu indonesia
<persia> OK.  No other questions.  Time for voting.
<persia> [VOTE] Confirm Adnan Kashogi as an Ubuntu Member
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Confirm Adnan Kashogi as an Ubuntu Member.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<persia> -1 : I need to see clear documentation, on the wiki or in IRC of significant and sustained contribution to feel comfortable confirming a member.
<MootBot> -1 received from persia. 0 for, 1 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -1
<persia> lifeless, freeflying, czajkowski ?
<czajkowski> -1 right now
<MootBot> -1 received from czajkowski. 0 for, 2 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -2
<lifeless> -0
<persia> freeflying, ?
<freeflying> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from freeflying. 0 for, 2 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now -2
<persia> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 0 for, 2 against. 1 abstained. Total: -2
<persia> ogitux, Please document your contributions in a bit more detail, and come back as soon as they are documented.
<ogitux> persia: ok
<persia> If you have questions about the documentation, or are unsure, feel free to ask me for assistance.
<persia> udienz, Could you also help ogitux to improve the wiki page?
<ogitux> persia: ok thanks
<udienz> persia, yup, i will help him
<persia> udienz, Thanks
<persia> OK.  Thanks for coming everyone.  We'll have our next meeting on the first of March.
<czajkowski> persia: hopefully more members will show :) otherwise just ask for members from other boards :)
<czajkowski> it was just by chance I looked at this channel.
<persia> czajkowski, I'll do that.
<persia> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 04:38.
<czajkowski> 20 mins to CC meeting
<czajkowski> time for tea
<persia> tea!
<czajkowski> persia: dholbach popey CC meeting ??
<czajkowski> is there one taking place now ?
<persia> There's one scheduled now.  The agenda doesn't have anything for current discussion
<persia> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda
<dholbach> there is - thanks for the ping
<persia> We talked about 605969 a while ago.
<dholbach> persia, maybe we can use this as an opportunity to catch up about things that are WIP right now?
<czajkowski> persia: so should it still be on agenda, or has a resoltion been made about it ?
<persia> dholbach, Works for me.  Do we have quorum?  Shall we flush out the agenda?
<popey> o/
<dholbach> let me see who else I can round up
<dholbach> let's wait 2-3 more mins
<dholbach> I pinged everybody on the CC
<dholbach> ok, let's just go on
<dholbach> indeed, there's bug 605969 - but I don't have any updates on it
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 605969 in Ubuntu Website "Redirect /employment to webapps.ubuntu.com/employment" [Undecided,Won't fix] https://launchpad.net/bugs/605969
<dholbach> there's also bug 689893
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 689893 in Ubuntu Code of Conduct "Doubt about the CoC" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/689893
<dholbach> popey, persia: do you have other "open items" to add?
<popey> i do not
<persia> Not I.
<dholbach> there's the wiki relicensing question - I'll get an update from IS on the question of mailing contributors tomorrow or the day after
<popey> actually I have a new issue
<dholbach> I think the CoC problem is something we should address - maybe we can ping everybody to reread the thread and come up with possible solutions?
<dholbach> popey, which one?
<popey> I'd like someone to respectfully, nicely and with the right words.. kick the IS team to fix the wiki.
<persia> I think hggdh had some good ideas: maybe we could ask for some recommended definitions, to focus on approval?
<czajkowski> popey: the time out issue when you make an edit on the wiki ?
<persia> popey, fix meaning not crash several times on each operation, or fix meaning the licensing?
<popey> the former persia
<popey> yes czajkowski
<popey> the numerous errors that result in the wiki being a frustrating service to use
<persia> Yes, that would be nice.
<czajkowski> it is crazy how that is still happening, and it must happen a lot of people.
<persia> I know of cases where people have not put information on the wiki because it is frustrating.
<dholbach> does anyone want to talk to IS about it? I'm sure there's an open ticket for it?
 * popey invokes AlanBell 
<popey> AlanBell: whats the status of the 'fix the wiki' issue?
<popey> I am getting Deja Vu, I'm sure we have discussed this before.
<czajkowski> *grin*
<czajkowski> I thought that was due to the wiki theme ?
<dholbach> what do we have as possible action items for the issues listed above?
<czajkowski> dholbach: couldn't someoen find the right IS person to ask why this is happening
<czajkowski> dholbach: how can it be fixed so it stops happening
<czajkowski> it really doesn't look good if you make a change and see the error messages.
<dholbach> czajkowski, that's why I asked for an RT ticket for it?
<popey> which is why I asked AlanBell, because I believe he has one open
<dholbach> ok
<dholbach> popey, maybe you can try to find out with AlanBell which RT ticket it is and mail the number to the CC so we can follow up?
<dholbach> regarding the CoC bug, I'll send a ping to the CC members about it, so we can have another good look at it
<popey> sure dholbach
<dholbach> and regarding the licensing issue, I'll take an action for it as well
<dholbach> ok, noted it down
<dholbach> is there anything else?
<czajkowski> dholbach: can the CoC bug be discussed publically somewhere ?
<dholbach> in the bug report
<dholbach> I just wanted to ping everybody about it again
<czajkowski> ok thanks
<czajkowski> so the discussion will take place there. was all I was checking
<dholbach> yep
<dholbach> popey, persia: are you happy with the actions and the list of outstanding items?
<czajkowski> dholbach: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-website/+bug/668530
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 668530 in Ubuntu Website "Wiki - 500 Internal Server Error" [Undecided,Invalid]
<dholbach> anything else you want to talk about?
<popey> not that I can think of
<dholbach> czajkowski, thanks
<popey> other than our own inability to hold regular meetings and update the wiki
<czajkowski> aye tis kinda bad when the CC don't meet tbh
<czajkowski> doesn't really set a good example to  other teams or council to operate
<dholbach> popey, yes, I agree
<persia> We should get better at that: if nothing else we need to set an example for our expectations of other boards and councils.
<czajkowski> persia: +1
<dholbach> persia, popey: what do you think would help there?
<dholbach> reminder mails of meeting times?
<popey> yes
<popey> and responsibility for chairing
<popey> as per the TB
<popey> so the wiki gets updated by the person chairing
<dholbach> that's a nice idea, yes
<czajkowski> rotating the chair and making sure the next meeting that will take place actually takes place is good
<czajkowski> as I know it is oftend displayed it is happen, but it doesnt always happen
<dholbach> if somebody would write a very quick minutes of the meeting later on, we could start discussing and setting us up for the change
<persia> I think we'd also do well to encourage folk to bring things to the meetings.  I feel there's a lot of discussion happening out of the context of the meeting that could happen in meetings, and it may make the entire process seem more approachable.
<persia> Especially for cases where we just have to vote, already (although the entire CC will only rarely be present for any meeting, due to timezones)
<czajkowski> persia: is that because people are unsure of what should be brought to a CC meeting
<czajkowski> persia: or even that anyone can attend this meeting and talk?
<persia> I think it ought be anything for CC attention that doesn't need to be private.
<persia> Speaking personally, I would prefer that people add stuff to the agenda, and only talk during their agenda item (or one in which they have a direct interest), but don't see any issues aside from that.
<popey> we discuss a lot of the mailing list, and dont bring it here
<popey> persia: that has the effect that stuff slows down
<popey> or gets bumped from one meeting to the next
<popey> doing stuff via the mailing list is allegedly faster (hah)
<persia> I don't claim to say how it ought be done: I'm new :)
<dholbach> let's try the meeting time reminders + deciding on a meeting chair
<persia> I've been on teams that switched from mail to IRC to be "faster" and teams that switched from IRC to mail to be "faster".  I'm not sure either is better or worse.
<persia> dholbach, Sounds like a good plan.
<dholbach> ok, who's going to do quick minutes later on? I'm very happy to follow up on it and make sure that we set up a chair, etc.
<popey> ok, i will
<dholbach> thanks, I'll put it into the Team Reports place as well
<dholbach> thanks popey
<persia> I'll pre-volunteer for chair+2 (as I'm not expecting to be around for the next meeting, but probably have the best timezone for the one following)
<dholbach> great
<dholbach> progress!
<popey> \o/
<dholbach> ok, anything else? :)
<popey> i had something but it's gone
<popey> brainfail
<dholbach> so we don't make popey's minutes longer than they already are :)
<dholbach> alright, I guess that's it
<dholbach> thanks everybody
<dholbach> and thanks czajkowski for the ping :)
<czajkowski> np :)
<popey> dholbach: should I send the minutes to the cc list and to the ubuntu news team to publish?
<dholbach> yeah, sounds good!
<popey> ok
 * popey saves the https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda page and gets an HTTP 500 error. The irony of this is not lost on me.
<head_victim> It happens every page save of late
<nigelb> popey: heh
<czajkowski> popey: *grin*
<czajkowski> popey: at least you've a sense of humour about it all
<hggdh> ~Ã´~
<zul> hi
<zul> O/
<ttx> \o
 * smb reminds the channel of his existence. :)
<robbiew> o/
<RoAkSoAx> o/
<JamesPage> o/
<zul> so who is running the meeting?
<Daviey> .
<Daviey> hmm
<RoAkSoAx> I'll run it if there's a wikipage where I can learn how to do it in a matter of seconds (either way I have to learn sooner or later :) )
<Daviey> James, were you last week?
<JamesPage> yep
<smoser> o/
<RoAkSoAx> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 10:07. The chair is RoAkSoAx.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<RoAkSoAx> [TOPIC] Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<MootBot> New Topic:  Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<RoAkSoAx> ok so actions of preivous meetings are
<RoAkSoAx> ALL:  ISO testing (including as much real hardware as possible) to smooth the way to A3!
<RoAkSoAx> Anyone anything to report here?
<zul> nope
<JamesPage> I've run quite a few installs in the last few days on hardware with no issues to report
<Daviey> i did 2 installs and a maverick upgrade
<Daviey> looking good
<RoAkSoAx> ok so I guess we didn't have any oustanding issues
<RoAkSoAx> next: robbiew to ensure notifications of release candidates (and re-rolls) sent out.
<Daviey> no
<Daviey> RoAkSoAx, defer it :)
<RoAkSoAx> ok then
<RoAkSoAx> [ACTION] robbiew to ensure notifications of release candidates (and re-rolls) sent out. (deferred)
<MootBot> ACTION received:  robbiew to ensure notifications of release candidates (and re-rolls) sent out. (deferred)
<RoAkSoAx> next is zul - Email ubuntu-devel to gather consensus on whether MySQL 5.5 should be included for Natty.
<robbiew> oops..sorry
<robbiew> skaet will do the notifications
<zul> done but 5.5 is not going into main for natty
<zul> oracle screwed up the versions for the libmysqlclient and i really dont want to break the archive
<RoAkSoAx> robbiew: awesome!
<RoAkSoAx> zul: I'm assumming this will be in PPA then?
<zul> RoAkSoAx: probably yes
<zul> but definently natty+1
<Daviey> hurrah
<JamesPage> \o/
<RoAkSoAx> awesome then
<RoAkSoAx> next: hggdh & JamesPage to check sizing for minimal installation for QA purposes.
<JamesPage> done - once we had fixed the preseed it was OK - cjwatson also made some minor amends to help
 * hggdh is slow
<JamesPage> now well under 500MB :-)
<Daviey> Jamie
<cjwatson> oh good
<RoAkSoAx> JamesPage: awesome!!
<Daviey> JamesPage, where is that documented?
<JamesPage> So the automated test case preseed is part of the ubuntu-server-iso-testing project
<JamesPage> it was not aligned to the minimal server install preseed on the ISO
<JamesPage> but other than in the preseeds in these areas its undocumented.
<Daviey> does that damage the testing suitability?
<hggdh> no
<hggdh> the ISO test asks to check for < 500M
<hggdh> it is now conforming
<Daviey> ahh
 * Daviey happy
<RoAkSoAx> Alright then. I guess that's all from previous meetings. Next topic is:
<RoAkSoAx> [TOPIC] Natty Development
<MootBot> New Topic:  Natty Development
<RoAkSoAx> Anyone anything to bring up here?
<zul> yeah there is a bunch of bugs that have been targeted to release ill post a list to ubuntu-server ml today and ask people to help out
<Daviey> euca 2.0.1 has even uploaded
<zul> finally ;)
<hggdh> \o/
<RoAkSoAx> YaY!
<smoser> Daviey, woot!
 * hggdh should not be that happy, it is more work to be done...
<Daviey> heh
<kirkland> cool
 * RoAkSoAx has finished an OCF RA for eucalyptus CLC. This will allow HA clusters to correctly and successfully monitor the CLC
<Daviey> hggdh... grab me out of band
<hggdh> Daviey: roj
<RoAkSoAx> anything else?
<zul> erm close your work items when they are done ;)
<RoAkSoAx> alrighty then.
<RoAkSoAx> moving on
<RoAkSoAx> [TOPIC] 10.04.2 ISO testing (zul)
<MootBot> New Topic:  10.04.2 ISO testing (zul)
<RoAkSoAx> zul: you're up :)
<zul> hi so 10.04.2 is going to be released and we need to be testing the ISO before release we have them configured on hudson but I would like to have some manual testing done (besides myself)
<zul> any volunteers
<kirkland> zul: i'll help you with that, if you like
<RoAkSoAx> I can also help later today
<JamesPage> zul: I'll pick up some as well
<Daviey> the iso needs posting on the tracker
<Daviey> candidate
<zul> right Ill probably send out an email to ubuntu-server for wider testing as well
<Daviey> it hasn't ye
<RoAkSoAx> [ACTION] kirkland JamesPage RoAkSoax to help zul testing 10.04.2 ISOs
<MootBot> ACTION received:  kirkland JamesPage RoAkSoax to help zul testing 10.04.2 ISOs
<zul> right once i get more information ill pass that off
<hggdh> who adjkust the ISO tracker for new releases available?
<RoAkSoAx> [ACTION] zul to send e-mail to ubuntu-server ML requesting help for testing 10.04.2 ISOs
<MootBot> ACTION received:  zul to send e-mail to ubuntu-server ML requesting help for testing 10.04.2 ISOs
<zul> ok thanks
<kirkland> zul: what's the deadline on this?
<kirkland> zul: today?
<zul> thursday would be nice
<kirkland> zul: cool, thanks, will do
<RoAkSoAx> we have little bit of time then.
<RoAkSoAx> zul: anything else that you'd like to mention?
<zul> yes the ISO are already posted on the ISO tracker
<Daviey> hmm
<zul> 20110211.1
<zul> thats it from me
<RoAkSoAx> let's move on then
<RoAkSoAx> [TOPIC] Ubuntu Server Team Events
<MootBot> New Topic:  Ubuntu Server Team Events
<RoAkSoAx> Same as last week
<RoAkSoAx> SCALE9x (spamps and kirkland) and UKUUG (ttx will be there)
<RoAkSoAx> let's move on
<RoAkSoAx> if noone has any other conference they are attending this month
<RoAkSoAx> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
<RoAkSoAx> hggdh: you are up
<hggdh> No news. I have been busy with the kernel SRUs, and will get busy with the new Euca as well
<Daviey> hurrah
<RoAkSoAx> ok let's move on then
<RoAkSoAx> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb)
<RoAkSoAx> smb: your turn :)
<smb> Mostly doing support escalation it feels
<smb> I think we could resolve mostly bug 709414
<ubottu> Bug 709414 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/709414 is private
<smb> bah
<smb> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/709392
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 709392 in nfs-utils (Ubuntu Lucid) "NFS client does not submit "nfs_file_sync" write requests when the file open call includes O_SYNC." [High,Triaged]
<smb> So its the implementation that differs but not sure whether the doc is right or the implementation. Waiting for upstream there
<smb> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/lucid/+source/linux-ec2/+bug/717177
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 717177 in linux-ec2 (Ubuntu Lucid) "Import missing stable update changes into Lucid-ec2" [Medium,Fix committed]
<smb> Completed that now and have asked people in bug 708920 to test. Unfortunately they keep on complaining that maverick seems to work while current lucid does, instead of testing the test kernel. :-P
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 708920 in linux-ec2 (Ubuntu) "Strange 'fork/clone' blocking behavior under high cpu usage on EC2" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/708920
<smb> Then there is customer complaint about bug http://people.canonical.com/~smb/lp710319/linux-image-2.6.32-28-generic_2.6.32-28.55+lp710319v1_amd64.deb
<smb> eh bug 671001
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 671001 in linux (Ubuntu) "[lucid] system locks up (system_call_fastpath+0x16/0x1b)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/671001
<smb> Which currently has not much useful information and needs more debugging (apart from the customer not wanting to use test kernels)
<smb> That would be all..
<RoAkSoAx> ok then. anyone have questions/concerns for smb ?
<RoAkSoAx> I guess not. let's move on!
<RoAkSoAx> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the Documentation Team (sommer)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the Documentation Team (sommer)
<RoAkSoAx> sommer is still not around. So moving on...
<RoAkSoAx> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the Ubuntu Community Team (kim0)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the Ubuntu Community Team (kim0)
<RoAkSoAx> kim0: are you around?
<kim0> well I am
<RoAkSoAx> kim0: anything you'd like to report ?
<kim0> I thought my section was removed however robbiew
<robbiew> doh!
<kim0> um not really
<kim0> if there's any questions though .. let me know
<robbiew> kim0: sorry...I thought that email went to the team...not just me
<robbiew> yeah...no need to have a specific section for kim0
<RoAkSoAx> awesome them. We'll update the wiki :0
<RoAkSoAx> [TOPIC] Open Discussion
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open Discussion
<robbiew> though we still should have a Ubuntu Community section ;)
<kirkland> robbiew: +1
<RoAkSoAx> wouldn't it be good to merge open discussion with Ubuntu Community?
<robbiew> hmm
<kirkland> RoAkSoAx: Open Discussion and Community are different, IMO
<Daviey> +1
<RoAkSoAx> (I used to wait for Open Discussion to discuss community stuff) But it's fine with me.
<RoAkSoAx> [ACTION] Create a new meeting section for Ubuntu Community.
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Create a new meeting section for Ubuntu Community.
<robbiew> So we are hiring :)
<robbiew> https://tbe.taleo.net/NA3/ats/careers/requisition.jsp?org=CANONICAL&cws=1&rid=159
<robbiew> anyone interested...please apply!
<RoAkSoAx> I think it would be good to announce it on twitter/facebook/etc
<kim0> I can probably push it around
<SpaMiPhone> o/
<robbiew> spam away!
<SpaMiPhone> At jury duty, did anybody need me for anything?
<RoAkSoAx> lol
<ttx> SpaMiPhone: guilty !
 * RoAkSoAx thanks god he doesn't have to do jury duty
<SpaMiPhone> I like the idea of calling somebody on a spamiphone to spam them
<RoAkSoAx> ok then so I guess we can put an end to the meeting
<RoAkSoAx> [TOPIC] Announce next meeting date and time
<MootBot> New Topic:  Announce next meeting date and time
<RoAkSoAx> Next meeting is: Tuesday, February 22 2011 16:00 UTC
<RoAkSoAx> thank you all for coming
<RoAkSoAx> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:49.
<SpaMiPhone> Great meeting!! Epic even. :)
<RoAkSoAx> SpaMiPhone: indeed
<smoser> SpaMiPhone, what app do you use ?
<SpaMiPhone> Irc999
<Daviey> pah .. iTelnet
<SpaMiPhone> The lag here is bad otherwise I would ssh to my server
<apw> o/
<smb> \O
<herton> \o/
<sforshee> \o
<flag> o/
<jjohansen> \o
<cking> o/
<sconklin> o/
<bjf> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 10:59. The chair is bjf.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<bjf> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<bjf> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Natty
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Natty
<bjf> # Meeting Etiquette
<bjf> #
<bjf> # NOTE: '..' indicates that you are finished with your input.
<bjf> #
<bjf> [TOPIC] Release Metrics (JFo)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Release Metrics (JFo)
<JFo> Release Meeting Bugs (8 bugs, 12 Blueprints)
<JFo> ==== Alpha 3 Milestoned Bugs (54 across all packages (down 7)) ====
<JFo>  * 3 linux kernel bugs (up 1)
<JFo>  * 0 linux-ti-omap bugs (no change)
<JFo>  * 0 linux-meta-ti-omap bug (no change)
<JFo> ==== Release Targeted Bugs (246 across all packages (down 3)) ====
<JFo>  * 22 linux kernel bugs (up 1)
<JFo>  * 0 linux-ti-omap bugs (no change)
<JFo>  * 0 linux-meta-ti-omap bug (no change)
<JFo> ==== Milestoned Features ====
<JFo>  * 7 blueprints (Including HWE Blueprints)
<JFo> ==== Maverick Updates Bugs ====
<JFo>  * 55 Linux Bugs (no change)
<JFo> ==== Lucid Updates Bugs ====
<JFo>  * 93 Linux Bugs (up 2)
<JFo> ==== Bugs with Patches Attached:98 (down 4) ====
<JFo>  * [[https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bugs?field.has_patch=on | Bugs with Patches]]
<JFo>  * [[http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ogasawara/csv-stats/bugs-with-patches/linux/ | Breakdown by status]]
<JFo> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprints: Natty Bug Handling (JFo)
<bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/hardware-kernel-n-bug-handling
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: Natty Bug Handling (JFo)
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/hardware-kernel-n-bug-handling
<JFo> nothing to report
<JFo> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprints: Enhancements to the firmware test suite (cking)
<bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/hardware-kernel-n-firmware-test-suite-enhancements
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: Enhancements to the firmware test suite (cking)
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/hardware-kernel-n-firmware-test-suite-enhancements
<cking> Changes to fwts (natty development branch):
<cking>  * Fix DMAR test: double free error.
<cking>  * Tests: smbios, virt, crs, apicinstance - mark tests status correctly.
<cking>  * Restructure arg handing - more generic modular and extensible.
<cking>  * add --s3-device-check, --s4-device-check options.
<cking>  * add --s3-quirks, --s4-quirks options.
<cking>  * add --s3-device-check-delay, --s4-device-check-delay options.
<cking>  * improve s3,s4 args value range checking.
<cking>  * improved progress feedback, s3, s4 tests.
<cking>  * s3, s4 tests: add device checking pre/post each cycle.
<cking> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprints: Review of the Stable Maintenance Process (sconklin / bjf)
<bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/hardware-kernel-n-stable-process-review
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: Review of the Stable Maintenance Process (sconklin / bjf)
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/hardware-kernel-n-stable-process-review
<sconklin> ||
<sconklin> || New kernels packages were build and uploaded last week for all supported series. These have been copied
<sconklin> || to the -proposed and the verification phase has begun. Verification tags should all be in place today.
<sconklin> ||
<sconklin> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Status: Cert. Team  (ara)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Status: Cert. Team  (ara)
<ara> o/
<ara> We will start next week with a new cycle of SRU testing for Maverick and Lucid, as soon as the validation phase is finished.
<ara> Going forward, if that's possible, we would appreciate if you could subscribe the Hardware Certification team to the tracking bugs that we need to test (Lucid and Maverick kernels, non EC2 kernels). Thanks!
<ara> ..
<ara>  
<bjf> [TOPIC] Status: Ecryptfs (jj)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Status: Ecryptfs (jj)
<jjohansen> - Some minor improvements to the base code have been made
<jjohansen> - The longname in header version isn't stable yet as it ate my data last night :(
<jjohansen> - Still waiting on upstream review
<jjohansen> - the on disk format can not be considered stable as it may change based on upstream review
<jjohansen> - starting to get wider testing, with latest built kernel attached to bug
<jjohansen> - setting up ppa to facilitate even wider testing, though I am still worried about this being used by people who aren't aware of potential breakage
<jjohansen> - userspace tools updates to make configuration by users feasible yet to be done (kirkland has volunteered)
<sconklin> ara: got that, thanks
 * kirkland waves
<jjohansen> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Status: Natty (apw)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Status: Natty (apw)
<apw> The natty kernel is now at v2.6.38-3.30 (v2.6.38-rc4 based).  We are expecting v2.6.38-rc5 to release imminently and we plan on uploading as soon as that is available.  Overall we have most of our development out of the way, with just the ecryptfs long filename work ongoing.  It looks like the v2.6.38 final will drop arround A3 so we should have a good period before final release.
<apw> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Security & bugfix kernels - Maverick/Lucid/Karmic/Hardy/Dapper (sconklin / bjf)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Security & bugfix kernels - Maverick/Lucid/Karmic/Hardy/Dapper (sconklin / bjf)
<sconklin> || Package                                    || Upd/Sec              || Proposed             ||  TiP || Verified ||
<sconklin> ||                                            ||                      ||                      ||      ||          ||
<sconklin> || dapper   linux-source-2.6.15               || 2.6.15-55.91         || 2.6.15-55.93         ||    0 ||        0 ||
<sconklin> ||                                            ||                      ||                      ||      ||          ||
<sconklin> || hardy    linux                             || 2.6.24-28.81         || 2.6.24-28.86         ||    0 ||        0 ||
<sconklin> ||                                            ||                      ||                      ||      ||          ||
<sconklin> || karmic   linux-fsl-imx51                   || 2.6.31-112.28        || 2.6.31-112.30        ||    0 ||        0 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-ec2                         || 2.6.31-307.23        || 2.6.31-307.27        ||    0 ||        0 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux                             || 2.6.31-22.70         || 2.6.31-22.73         ||    0 ||        0 ||
<sconklin> ||                                            ||                      ||                      ||      ||          ||
<sconklin> || lucid    linux-ec2                         || 2.6.32-312.24        || 2.6.32-313.26        ||    7 ||        3 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-ports-meta                  || 2.6.32.28.21         || 2.6.32.29.22         ||    0 ||        0 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-mvl-dove                    || 2.6.32-211.27        || 2.6.32-214.30        ||    5 ||        3 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-meta-mvl-dove               || 2.6.32.209.12        || 2.6.32.214.15        ||    0 ||        0 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-lts-backport-maverick       || 2.6.35-23.41~lucid1  || 2.6.35-25.44~lucid1  ||    0 ||        0 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-meta                        || 2.6.32.28.32         || 2.6.32.29.34         ||    0 ||        0 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-firmware                    || 1.34.3               || 1.34.4               ||    0 ||        0 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux                             || 2.6.32-28.55         || 2.6.32-29.58         ||    5 ||        3 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-fsl-imx51                   || 2.6.31-608.20        || 2.6.31-608.22        ||    0 ||        0 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-backports-modules-2.6.32    || 2.6.32-28.27         || 2.6.32-29.28         ||    0 ||        0 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-meta-ec2                    || 2.6.32.312.13        || 2.6.32.313.14        ||    0 ||        0 ||
<sconklin> ||                                            ||                      ||                      ||      ||          ||
<sconklin> || maverick linux-ports-meta                  || 2.6.35.25.19         || 2.6.35.27.21         ||    0 ||        0 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-mvl-dove                    ||                      || 2.6.32-414.30        ||    2 ||        2 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-meta-mvl-dove               ||                      || 2.6.32.414.4         ||    0 ||        0 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-firmware                    || 1.38.3               || 1.38.4               ||    0 ||        0 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux                             || 2.6.35-25.44         || 2.6.35-27.47         ||    8 ||        8 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-backports-modules-2.6.35    || 2.6.35-25.16         || 2.6.35-27.18         ||    0 ||        0 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-meta                        || 2.6.35.25.32         || 2.6.35.27.34         ||    0 ||        0 ||
<sconklin> ||                                            ||                      ||                      ||      ||          ||
<sconklin> ||
<sconklin> || Note - There is a new live(ish) web page that displays the kernel versions in a format similar to that above,
<sconklin> || without the bug verification counts. That page is here: https://kernel-tools.canonical.com/versions.html
<sconklin> || The page is updated every 15 minutes.
<sconklin> ||
<sconklin> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Incoming Bugs: Regressions (JFo)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Incoming Bugs: Regressions (JFo)
<JFo> Incoming Bugs
<JFo>  169 Natty Bugs (up 20)
<JFo>  1152 Maverick Bugs (up 11)
<JFo>  1013 Lucid Bugs (up 8)
<JFo> Current regression stats (broken down by release):
<JFo> ==== regression-update ====
<JFo>   * 39 maverick bugs (up 4)
<JFo>   * 77 lucid bugs (up 2)
<JFo>   * 7 karmic bugs (up 1)
<JFo>   * 0 hardy bugs (no change)
<JFo> ==== regression-release ====
<JFo>   * 228 maverick bugs (up 8)
<JFo>   * 208 lucid bugs (up 2)
<JFo>   * 38 karmic bugs (no change)
<JFo>   * 2 hardy bugs (no change)
<JFo> ==== regression-proposed ====
<JFo>   * 3 natty bugs ()
<JFo>   * 6 maverick bugs (down 8)
<JFo>   * 0 lucid bugs (down 2)
<JFo>   * 0 karmic bug (down 1)
<JFo> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Incoming Bugs: Bug day report (JFo)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Incoming Bugs: Bug day report (JFo)
<JFo> The  next bug day will be next Tuesday. I will put out information on this bug
<JFo> day today. I'd like to go into the bugs in the new state again as many of these
<JFo> are still in an incorrect status.
<JFo> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Triage Status (JFo)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Triage Status (JFo)
<JFo> nothing to report
<JFo> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Open Discussion or Questions: Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open Discussion or Questions: Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
<bjf> thanks everyone
<bjf> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 11:10.
<JFo> thanks bjf
<smb> ta
<ajmitch> morning
<stgraber> hey ajmitch
<ajmitch> I think the others might be on the other side of the netsplit, great timing :)
<ajmitch> hopefully it'll be resolved soon, I'm wanting this meeting to be quick
<ajmitch> I guess we may as well get started, hopefully fagan will be here soon
<ajmitch> wendar: ping :)
<stgraber> I have an appointment at 2pm here so won't be able to do meeting overtime ;)
<ajmitch> right, I'm seeing if we even have enough around for it to be worth it :)
<stgraber> how many do we need to be to have quorum again ?
<ajmitch> 3
<ajmitch> probably the same with statik stepping down, would have to check that
<wendar> ajmitch: I lost you in the netsplit
<wendar> seems everyone is back now
<wendar> or not?
<ajmitch> 3 of us are here
<ajmitch> shall we begin?
<ajmitch> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 12:14. The chair is ajmitch.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<ajmitch> OK, ARB meeting time, I'm just digging up the irc logs for the last session for the action items
<ajmitch> the old agenda was at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AppReviewBoard/Agenda
<ajmitch> from the logs, I can also see a couple of action items on fagan looking into /opt & tools in natty, and fagan & wendar doing some wiki pages on creating submissions
<wendar> the wiki pages are in progress
<ajmitch> great, are they up on the wiki now?
<wendar> I've been developing them offline, but I'm adding them to the wiki now
<wendar> you should find them linked from the main AppReviewBoard page
<ajmitch> thanks
<wendar> I went for a simple starting page, linking to more details on each of the steps
<wendar> I'll probably add a "checklist" too
<ajmitch> We can probably add various tips & other things there
<wendar> there are some inconsistencies between the original spec'd process and what we've actually been doing
<ajmitch> such as in the reviewing & voting?
<wendar> but, as far as it doesn't impact the security of the process, I'm documenting what we're actually doing
<wendar> more in the format of the request
<ajmitch> OK
<wendar> the original spec asked them to create a wiki page of their request and submit a link to the wiki page
<ajmitch> I've had some thoughts about the reviewing that we can come to later
<wendar> but everyone is just putting the information straight in the bug, and really, that's a lot easier to work with than a separate wiki page anyway
<wendar> (it's only a few lines of information)
<ajmitch> agreed, the bug record is just as useful as a wiki page
<wendar> (thoughts on reviewing) okay, great, we can talk about that too
<wendar> so, I'm documenting it as "put the info in the bug report"
<ajmitch> for the reviewing before the final vote, I'd like it if we announced that a package was ready for vote on the mailing list prior to the meeting, and then voted on in the meeting
<ajmitch> that'd give people a heads up that there's something final to review
<ajmitch> sound reasonable?
<wendar> yes, that's a good idea
<stgraber> yep
<ajmitch> great
<ajmitch> other items to look at..  Discuss conventions for ARB proposals on public code repository/tarball/etc
<ajmitch> I'd need to read the logs again for a history of this one, we'll keep it on the list of things to do for now
<ajmitch> any other action items to add for now?
<wendar> the public code repository is relevant to the guide
<wendar> I'm going to add it as a suggestion in the submission that they provide links to upstream resources, and the group can review
<ajmitch> sounds good
<stgraber> yeah, they should always point to where they found the upstream code, be that a tarball or some branch
<stgraber> would also be great to encourage them to include a debian/watch file
<wendar> we can explicitly mention debian/watch in the packaging section
<ajmitch> generally they should be upstream, a pointer to where the code can be downloaded from is needed in debian/copyright, but it'd be good to have it in the bug
<ajmitch> I see that we're making slow (but some) progress on the apps to review
<ajmitch> wendar: for the news app, any of us should be able to push to the extras PPA
<ajmitch> I'd have to check permissions on the screenshots branch
<wendar> ajmitch: I wasn't sure if the extras PPA had been enabled for the group in general, or just for stgraber
<ajmitch> pretty sure it's any of us
<ajmitch> looks like mvo or one of the software-center developers needs to merge in screenshot branches
<stgraber> any of you should be able to upload
<ajmitch> great
<stgraber> the only current issue is that we need to ping mvo or someone else everytime to merge the branch, then wait for the screenshot to be available on the web service
<stgraber> then push the package and wait for the sync to extras.u.c
<stgraber> last time mvo opened an IS ticket to get the screenshots updated from the branch
<ajmitch> that sounds cumbersome
<stgraber> ideally this part should be more automated and ARB should be able to do the merge directly (to the current branch or to another one, not really important)
<wendar> ultimately, software center will be using a web form for these screenshots
<wendar> and we can use the same web form submission process
<wendar> merging into a bzr repository is cumbersome, but should only be temporary
<ajmitch> similar to screenshots.debian.net, which is what's mostly used at the moment
<ajmitch> so news should be ready to go, SIR was ready as well?
<wendar> on SIR I'm waiting for the screenshots from the developer
<wendar> otherwise it's ready
<ajmitch> ok
<ajmitch> pytask - with statik unavailable, one of us will need to pick it up
<stgraber> I can take it
<ajmitch> ok
<wendar> there's also a new one: schedio
<ajmitch> yep, was getting to that one :)
<ajmitch> I haven't taken a look at it yet, does anyone want to take it, or shall I?
<ajmitch> I don't see people clamouring to review it, so I'll take it
<ajmitch> simple-stopwatch - I pushed a branch with some packaging changes, the author has some other fixes he wants to make once his exams are over
 * wendar is traveling for the next few weeks, so can't take on anything more than seeing news and SIR the rest of the way through the process
<ajmitch> cdbs & python apps are a bit of a pain for /opt, still
<ajmitch> wendar: ok
<ajmitch> suspended sentence was done, thanks stgraber :)
<ajmitch> & fagan was lookign at 4dtris, reading the lp bug he hadn't had a chance to look at it in depth
<ajmitch> am I missing any?
<ajmitch> looks like we don't have anything to vote on this week
<ajmitch> I guess by the silence, we're pretty much done
<ajmitch> who'd like to be chair for the next meeting?
<ajmitch> stgraber?
<stgraber> next meeting is the 1st of March right ?
<ajmitch> yes
 * wendar checking calendar
<stgraber> ok, I seem to be available so I can chair
<ajmitch> thanks :)
<wendar> I probably won't be able to attend that one
<wendar> ajmitch: could you note that in the Agenda page?
<ajmitch> ok, we'll see who's available onthe list - we'll have to discuss replacing statik there too
<ajmitch> sure
<ajmitch> sorry for the rush, but I'll need to run off for work
<ajmitch> thanks everyone for attending, I'll write up minutes when I get a chance
<ajmitch> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 12:56.
<czajkowski> 20:06 [freenode] -Martinp23(martinp23@freenode/staff/wikimedia.martinp23)-  [Global Notice] Hi everyone. You will have possibly noticed some  instability on the network earlier this evening. The network is under  a sustained DDoS and so lag and possible further splits are to be  expected. We apologise for the inconvenience - our fantastic
<czajkowski>  sponsorship andinfra teams are working to minimise the furthear  impact. Have a nice evening!
<czajkowski> folks should +w in order to see wallops
<JackyAlcine> czajkowski: You do that by /umode +w?
<czajkowski> JackyAlcine: yes
<JackyAlcine> Alright, thank you.
<itnet7> Hey there paulta[g] !
<paulta[g]> howdy itnet7!
<czajkowski> Aloha
<czajkowski> 3 mins to go
<czajkowski> 2
<itnet7> How are you czajkowski !
<czajkowski> tired and grumpy, stupid tooth ache from hell
<itnet7> Sorry :-(
<itnet7> I would rather have a tooth ache then listen to the FUD of this instructor :-)
<czajkowski> heh
<czajkowski> paulta[g]: you're missing from over there
<paulta[g]> oh yes
<paulta[g]> I'm on webchat, sorry
<paulta[g]> I'm at my buddies, he has a bricked 9.10 install
<itnet7> uh-oh
<czajkowski> not sure the others will be on due to net splits
<paulta[g]> roger
<itnet7> Yeah, I saw your message earlier, it's been crazy lately with the NS's
<czajkowski> we were under a DDoS earlier on
<huats> helo everyone
<czajkowski> huats: Aloha
<huats> sorry I am late
<czajkowski> it's ok
<itnet7> Hey there huats !
<huats> hello itnet7 !
<paulta[g]> hey huats
<czajkowski> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoCouncilAgenda
<czajkowski> short agenda at least
<huats> oh paulta[g] !
<czajkowski> just poking jono now
<paulta[g]> oh!
<paulta[g]> czajkowski: righto
<czajkowski> so who's here for LC meeting ?
<czajkowski> o/
<AlanBell> o/
<paulta[g]> o/
<itnet7> o/
<czajkowski> huats: ?
<huats> I am
<czajkowski> right well we'll move on as net splits seem to have lost a popey on us
<huats> ok
<czajkowski> Ubuntu Global Jam
<czajkowski> is fast approaching us
<czajkowski> and http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/global/567/detail/
<czajkowski> there are not that many teams registered for this
<czajkowski> how can we get more teams involved folks?
<czajkowski> we need to promote it and encourage and help teams
<czajkowski> so thoughts?
<paulta[g]> Well, I know not too many people are always aware
<paulta[g]> so blogging might help
<huats> czajkowski, I think it might be good to do again the sessions that jcastro have lead in the past
<huats> to help and explain how to organise a GBJ
<paulta[g]> +1 there huats
<itnet7> They were good sessions
<czajkowski> aye I'm just worried nobody turned up for them
<mhall119> czajkowski: it can be promoted during UDW
<itnet7> +1 mhall119
<czajkowski> mhall119: oh good call
<czajkowski> yes
<huats> +1
<czajkowski> so maybe next month we could also run a how to rung a UGJ n this meeting ???
<paulta[g]> howdy joaopinto
<paulta[g]> erm, jono
<itnet7> lol paulta[g] !
<paulta[g]> itnet7: damn alphabetic tab complete! :)
<paulta[g]> czajkowski: that sounds great
<itnet7> exactly my thoughts
<czajkowski> ok
<czajkowski> so I think what we need to do now is
<czajkowski> spread some blooging amongst us
<huats> czajkowski, you mean to replace that meeting by how to run a UGJ  ? or todo both ?
<czajkowski> huats: replace the meeting
<mhall119> how about small-scale, narrowly focused jams that are easier for someone to organize?
<huats> czajkowski, ok sounds a good idea
<huats> mhall119, that is the idea I thik
<czajkowski> mhall119: can you explain more
<mhall119> finding a place for 10 people to get together to triage bugs is no easy task
<mhall119> having a friend over to your place for pizza and hacking is relatively easy
<czajkowski> indeed
<czajkowski> true good point
<czajkowski> and I think sometimes that is missed
<mhall119> so call them micro-jams or buddy-jams or something
<huats> that is the idea of the UGJ at the launch
<mhall119> or even coffee-jams, where you meet for a hour at starbucks
<mhall119> getting people to organize something has been our biggest hurdle in -fl
<itnet7> true mhall119
<itnet7> especially lately
<mhall119> yeah :(
<czajkowski> I think the issue is people not knowing what to do tbh
<czajkowski> Everyone wants to help
<mhall119> and I'm as much at fault, I haven't organized anything in a while
<czajkowski> but unless you know what to do, it is somewhat pointless
<itnet7> Well maybe we can try to highlight some of the plans on planet and try to encourage more particpation word of mouth and through the lists
<czajkowski> ok
<czajkowski> itnet7: do you have time to write a blog post this week ?
<czajkowski> ideally I'd like one a week please from us
<itnet7> Sure
<czajkowski> so we can help people
<czajkowski> itnet7: ok thanks
<czajkowski> huats: paulta[g] can ether of ye do one next week ???
<paulta[g]> sure, I'll do it
<czajkowski> ok
<czajkowski> huats: can you do the week after
<itnet7> I was thinking that some of the teams that have already signed up to participate could write a little about their plans on the list to help give new teams some ideas
<czajkowski> then I'll do the folllowing week
<czajkowski> that'll bring us up to the meeting wherewe can do a Q&A session here
<itnet7> sure!
<mhall119> and make sure everyone is using #ugj in tweets/dents/photos
<pleia2> I'd also send an announcement email to loco-contacts and ubuntu-news-team
<czajkowski> pleia2: aye I kinda forget about news :(
<czajkowski> sorry!
<pleia2> was it sent to loco-contacts?
<czajkowski> has been in the past
<czajkowski> will send out tomorrow
<pleia2> cool
<huats> czajkowski, sure
<huats> (sorry I was away)
<czajkowski> huats: np
<czajkowski> so to recap
<czajkowski> itnet7: this week
<czajkowski> paulta[g]: next week
<czajkowski> huats: following week
<huats> ok
<czajkowski> me final week
<czajkowski> tomorrow I'll mail the contact list
<mhall119> I know there's a big desire to see Unity get a lot of testing during UGJ, can we have a separate session on how to run a Unity testing jam?
<czajkowski> next meeting we will run a Q&A session
<czajkowski> mhall119: will need someone to run it
<czajkowski> but I don't see why not
 * czajkowski spies a jcastro 
<mhall119> maybe jcastro will be willing
<mhall119> heh, great minds think alike
 * czajkowski bribes jcastro 
<jcastro> busy send me mail psl
<czajkowski> will do
<popey> o/
<czajkowski> anyone any other comments on the UGJ ? and how we can get more coverage of it ?
<popey> sorry, had to reboot my irc server thing
<czajkowski> popey: :)
<czajkowski> maybe we can get huats and leogg to run sessions in their languages also ?
<czajkowski> get more folks involved
<czajkowski> leogg: what do you think of a spanish session?
<itnet7> We can add the banner's to our blogs
<leogg> czajkowski: for the ugj?
<itnet7> if you haven't already
<czajkowski> leogg: yes but also in here, next month run a session on how to run a UGJ in Spanish ?
<itnet7> chat it up a bit on FB
<czajkowski> I think it was posted to the fb page
<huats> czajkowski, might be a good idea
<huats> I can run one indeed
<czajkowski> perhaps getting jono to do a Q&A session specifically on how to do stuff at a UGJ and how to take part
<czajkowski> huats: great!
<czajkowski> I dont want community members feeling left out as sessions are only run in one language
<czajkowski> so I'd like where possible to get as much out there in multiple ways,
<czajkowski> over kill but I'd prefer that to only some members knowing
<czajkowski> any other comments?
<itnet7> not that I can think of
<huats> nope
<czajkowski> ok
<leogg> czajkowski: I can't promise anything... the date for the UGJ is really bad for us, it's a few days before a really big event, so...
<czajkowski> well can someone summerise this and add to our team report :D
<czajkowski> leogg: np, but perhaps it may help other spanish speaking teams...
<itnet7> czajkowski: I'll do the summary
<leogg> czajkowski: it's actually pretty bad date for all spanish speaking teams
<itnet7> and update the team report
 * czajkowski hugs itnet7 thank you
<czajkowski> leogg: ahh why is that ?
<itnet7> and hopefully blog tonight as well!
<MrChrisDruif> Hai y'all :)
<czajkowski> itnet7: you rock
<czajkowski> thank you
<leogg> czajkowski: http://flisol.info/
<MrChrisDruif> Meeting over?
<czajkowski> MrChrisDruif: nope
<leogg> czajkowski: it's on April 9
<MrChrisDruif> Great :)
<czajkowski> leogg: nods
<czajkowski> leogg: does that happen on the same date each year?
<leogg> czajkowski: usually it's the fourth Saturday of April, but they changed it this year
<czajkowski> :S
<czajkowski> ok any other thoughts comments, ?
<czajkowski> agenda only had this topic down
<popey> be nice to promote local UGJ events
<popey> "Hyper local"
<MrChrisDruif> Agenda?
<popey> I am thinking of having one at my house
<MrChrisDruif> What is the current topic?
<popey> MrChrisDruif: this is a loco council meeting
<huats> popey, that is the focus we try to have : local event
<czajkowski> popey: indeed
<popey> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoCouncil/Agenda
<popey> maybe we should focus on that?
<popey> rather than the big massively organised events
<czajkowski> popey: houses or coffee shops are ideal
<popey> just 3 people in a room with laptops is UGJ
<czajkowski> popey: so true!
<itnet7> +1 popey !
<popey> saves people travelling
<huats> popey, like I said I think this is the idea that was behing UGJ in Prague
<popey> means people can have one local to them, and not massively inconvenience them
<MrChrisDruif> czajkowski: What is this Ubuntu Global Jam about?
<czajkowski> MrChrisDruif: http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/global/567/detail/
<itnet7> Yeah, and those that want to can still have big events, it will just let everyone know it's not required..
<popey> MrChrisDruif: http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/02/15/ubuntu-global-jam-call-for-events/
<popey> itnet7: exactly
<itnet7> Think Globally act locally ;-)
<popey> set the barrier for entry as low as we possibly can
<popey> yes!
<huats> at least we all agree :)
<MrChrisDruif> Why that weekend? :P
<MrChrisDruif> You could do it the weekend after Natty release and make it an installfest :D
<czajkowski> MrChrisDruif: the idea is to do it before natty is released to find bugs and help out and work on translations etc
<MrChrisDruif> Yeah....first read the details...sorry :)
<czajkowski> MrChrisDruif: :)
<czajkowski> anyting else folks or shall we finish up ?
<itnet7> I think we're good for now...
<czajkowski> excellent
 * czajkowski hugs the loco council ye rock :D 
<MrChrisDruif> Let me just say I was thinking about organizing a installfest, not a bug/test fest
<MrChrisDruif> First make a bit of community here in Holland O:-)
<MrChrisDruif> Which want to meet up for things like ugj :D
<MrChrisDruif> Other than that...great initiative :)
<czajkowski> MrChrisDruif: sounds like fun
<MrChrisDruif> Yeah, hope it will be :D
<itnet7> ttyiab, leaving class now
<czajkowski> thanks folks
#ubuntu-meeting 2011-02-16
<mvo> hello
<doko> hi
<robbiew> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 10:01. The chair is robbiew.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<robbiew> o/
<psurbhi> o/
<ev> \o/
<jhunt_> o/
<robbiew> [TOPIC] Lightning Round
<cjwatson> hi
<MootBot> New Topic:  Lightning Round
<robbiew> any volunteers?
<ev> o/
<ev> trying to sort out how to properly draw on the root window in a compiz world in support of moving the installer session to it. Finishing up the usb-creator specification.
<ev> Documenting the state of the partitioning UI in preparation for a meeting with ivanka on the home preservation and package retention stuff on Friday. Sorted the oem-config slideshow stuff.
<ev> (done)
<cjwatson> o/
<cjwatson> I've spent almost all of this week on the bootstrap project, with a bit of 10.04.2 archive/CD-building work on the side.  No other progress to report.
<robbiew> thxn ev and cjwatson
<cjwatson> Unfortunately I think I'll have to defer GRUB-on-the-CDs for another cycle.  Sorry. :-(
<cjwatson> --
<barry> o/
<barry> bug 686257 (python-keyring), bug 664276 (python-numpy), bug 710711 (network manager crashes - not fix), bug 693671 (wubi - not fixed), bug 711225 (subprocess.Popen() crash), bug 697792 (fuse verified for lucid-proposed), bug 702375 (launchpadlib), bug 715707 bug 601585 bug 591433 (computer-janitor).  also: several udd discussions, python archive analysis, python3 porting c/c, c-j bug triage.  done.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 686257 in python-keyring (Ubuntu) "upgrade to python-keyring 0.5.1 (and MIR)" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/686257
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 664276 in python-numpy (Ubuntu Natty) "python-numpy doc related build failure" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/664276
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 710711 in network-manager-applet (Ubuntu) "NetworkManager crashed with SIGABRT in raise()" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/710711
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 693671 in Ubuntu Natty "wubi install will not boot - phase 2 stops with: Try (hd0,0): NTFS5" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/693671
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 711225 in python2.7 (Ubuntu) "subprocess.Popen() crashed with TypeError in _cleanup(): an integer is required" [Medium,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/711225
<barry> ev: i think i'm going to need some help on the wubi issue.  i can't even get as far as the original bug reporter
<robbiew> sweet...thnx for working the bugs barry
<psurbhi> o/
<psurbhi> 1) still debugging mountall - upstart communication in initramfs. Analaysed that "a read on a socket is occuring for 0 bytes" , so connection between mountall and upstart is getting disconnected. Just have analyse what is happening :( but not the why part! (need to discuss this) hopefully by next week shall have a better status. not much PROGRESS in this week- sorry!
<psurbhi> 2) spent some time today on samba 526464 and 496160 (looked at the patch back portability and code trace), traced some nfs code last week.
<psurbhi> (done)
<ev> barry: sure
<robbiew> doko:?
<doko> short week, starting on Mon. still catching up, long call with bjoern for LO, more mentoring, gcc linaro merges, gcc-4.4 and gcc-4.5 updates, binutils update, started eglibc-2.13 merge/packaging
<doko> done
<robbiew> mvo?
<cjwatson> mountall/initramfs> if you can get strace into your initramfs and run mountall under it, that would probably be helpful
<mvo> apt: merges from debian
<mvo> aptdaemon: fixes, merges, upload new version
<mvo> auto-upgrade-tester: add python-all test profile, run test, fix #715075, fix main-all bootstraping (always a bit of a pain)
<mvo> mago: modernize packaging, upload new bzr snapshot (needed for s-c)
<mvo> Review lp:~csurbhi/+junk/mdadm.fixes (looks good, but needs changelog updates to refer to the individual bugs for the SRU)
<cjwatson> oh, unless you've already done that
<mvo> rnr-server: debug/fix encoding issues (#714582), expose usefulness via API, add offline mode to piston-mini-client
<mvo> Softwae-center: branch review/merges, cleanup, debug oneconf issues, upload 3.0-sru, work on "was-this-review-useful" feature,
<mvo> Update-manager: look at native python-patch impleentation (for applying emergency hot-fixes during the upgrade as some minimal systems do not even have "ed" installed). not much luck yet
<mvo> (done)
<robbiew> psurbhi: did you see cjwatson's suggestion?
<psurbhi> cjwatson, thanks..! i will try that too
<robbiew> mvo: so are there plans to allow people to sort applications by reviews?
<psurbhi> currently i am redirecting all the output to a serial port in kvm (and that goes to a file)
<psurbhi> and i have put a trillion printfs in libdbus.. and mountall
 * robbiew is too lazy to read the novel/spec
<mvo> robbiew: not currently, but maybe a top rated section
<mvo> robbiew: but FF is close :/
<robbiew> mvo: heh...sure...not meaning for 11.04
<robbiew> just in general
<psurbhi> cjwatson, i will try the strace today and hopefully find something more, thanks!
<robbiew> top rated is probably good enough
<mvo> in the long term I think it would be really useful
<mvo> we plan to have search results ranged by it too
<robbiew> cool
<robbiew> jhunt_:?
<jhunt_> Finished Upstart visualisation tests and pushed branch. Then found a bug in the Graphviz script which has led to a rework. Ironically, that rework ended up showing up a bug in autofs (bug 718664 which I fixed), and a minor bug in the Upstart visualization parser. A side-effect of the tests for the visualisation means that I have been able to write a script for users to syntax check their .conf job files prior to installing them into /etc/init/. Currently
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 718664 in autofs5 (Ubuntu) "upstart config fo file autofs5 requires space" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/718664
<jhunt_> EOT
<mvo> nice
<cjwatson> cut off at "Currently"
<robbiew> jhunt_:  ^^
<robbiew> hmm...maybe lost connection
<robbiew> [TOPIC] Natty
<MootBot> New Topic:  Natty
<robbiew> Feature freeze next week!!!!
<mvo> *urgh*
<ev> !!!!!1
<highvoltage> *panics*
<robbiew> we do have the option of submitting feature freeze exceptions...but I think skaet and the release team plan to hand those out sparingly ;)
<robbiew> http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/team-assigned/canonical-foundations-assigned-bug-tasks.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/team-assigned/canonical-foundations-assigned-bug-tasks.html
<robbiew> A total of 252 bug tasks are assigned to the canonical-foundations team!
<robbiew> Michael Vogt has 107 tasks assigned
<robbiew> Colin Watson has 54 tasks assigned
<robbiew> Canonical Foundations Team has 28 tasks assigned
<robbiew> Barry Warsaw has 17 tasks assigned
<robbiew> Surbhi Palande has 17 tasks assigned
<robbiew> Evan Dandrea has 14 tasks assigned
<robbiew> Matthias Klose has 10 tasks assigned
<robbiew> James Hunt has 5 tasks assigned
<jhunt__> sorry - slight case of kernel barfage...!
<robbiew> (10:10:20 AM) jhunt_: Finished Upstart visualisation tests and pushed branch. Then found a bug in the Graphviz script which has led to a rework. Ironically, that rework ended up showing up a bug in autofs (bug 718664 which I fixed), and a minor bug in the Upstart visualization parser. A side-effect of the tests for the visualisation means that I have been able to write a script for users to syntax check their .conf j
<robbiew> (10:10:23 AM) ubottu: Launchpad bug 718664 in autofs5 (Ubuntu) "upstart config fo file autofs5 requires space" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/718664
<robbiew> (10:10:27 AM) jhunt_: EOT
<robbiew> (10:10:41 AM) mvo: nice
<robbiew> (10:10:50 AM) cjwatson: cut off at "Currently"
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 718664 in autofs5 (Ubuntu) "upstart config fo file autofs5 requires space" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/718664
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 718664 in autofs5 (Ubuntu) "upstart config fo file autofs5 requires space" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/718664
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 718664 in autofs5 (Ubuntu) "upstart config fo file autofs5 requires space" [Undecided,Fix released]
<robbiew> okay....
 * cjwatson unassigns another handful from himself
<robbiew> so the bug numbers for the team are not bad...unless you are mvo, who apparently loves to work bugs
<cjwatson> might eventually get down to a comfortable level
<mvo> *cough* I guess I love to collect them
 * mvo will agressively fix/unassign
 * robbiew vows to get mvo under 100
<robbiew> I probably can't fix any of them....but I can unassign/invalidate the REALLY old ones
<robbiew> ;)
<psurbhi> :D
<jhunt__> robbiew: shall I re-paste?
<robbiew> jhunt__: would be nice :)
<jhunt__> hold onto your pants, here we go...
<jhunt__> Finished Upstart visualisation tests and pushed branch. Then found a bug in the Graphviz script which has led to a rework. Ironically, that rework ended up showing up a bug in autofs (bug 718664 which I fixed), and a minor bug in the Upstart visualization parser. A side-effect of the tests for the visualisation means that I have been able to write a script for users to syntax check their .conf job files prior to installing them into /etc/init/. Currentl
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 718664 in autofs5 (Ubuntu) "upstart config fo file autofs5 requires space" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/718664
<jhunt__> EOT
<psurbhi> jhunt_, the message is cut off at Currentl :P
<cjwatson> IRC has a line length limit - you need to split
<jhunt__> take 2, part 2...
<jhunt__> Currently finishing off graphviz script and a "check mode" for initctl to detect invalid configuration combinations (useful for dpkg) and will then concentrate on looking at Keybuks branches in earnest along with packaging up my code for natty. I think we're running out of runway for my "interactive boot" work for this cycle (it wasn't actually scoped), but we'll see...
<jhunt__> I think I'll revert to my old style of pasting next time :)
<robbiew> heh...well, there's no shame in postponing work to the next release
<cjwatson> FWIW I'll be more than happy if we get the scoped work done, aside from future work ;-)
<robbiew> as long as we do it
<robbiew> http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/natty/canonical-foundations-natty-alpha-3.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/natty/canonical-foundations-natty-alpha-3.html
<robbiew> speaking of scoped work :P
<robbiew> not that many work items really listed, so assuming they aren't SUPER generalized ones, like "fix bugs"....I'm fine with it
<robbiew> http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/natty/canonical-foundations.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/natty/canonical-foundations.html
<robbiew> that looks even better :)
<robbiew> [TOPIC]AOB/GoodNews
<MootBot> New Topic: AOB/GoodNews
<mvo> I ran a python-all upgrade test (including python packages from universe) from maverick->natty and it looks very good
<robbiew> \o/
<mvo> (filed some bugs, did some fixes, but overall very good, tag python27 for the remaining ones)
<mvo> and I just uploaded apt-btrfs-snapshot to natty
<psurbhi> yey
 * mvo is very excited about this one
<psurbhi> :)
<barry> mvo: thanks!
<cjwatson> that went fast after the infrastructure was done :)
<mvo> thanks psurbhi for the work to make this happen (in the installer)
<psurbhi> mvo, thanks to you too for the wonderful feature
<mvo> cjwatson: yeah, its not hard, the tricky part was what you and psurbhi did (and the initial thinking)
<robbiew> what does apt-btrfs-snapshot do?
<mvo> it will create btrfs snapshots
<mvo> ;)
<cjwatson> there are still some issues in grub2 that make it tricky to use by default (aside from any problems with btrfs itself)
<mvo> on each apt-get install/remove/upgrade run
<cjwatson> in particular we don't have anywhere to put the environment block yet, so a few features won't work
<mvo> plus it provides the needed hooks so that the release upgrade can use it
<cjwatson> we have a design for a solution to that, but no code for it yet
<mvo> cjwatson: I also noticed that btrfs and dpkg do not play that well, everything feels slow because of the fsync() calls I assume
<mvo> this needs fixing IMO as well before we can consider it as default
<mvo> but its still a really nice step forward
<robbiew> mvo: ah...cool
<robbiew> thnx
<mvo> robbiew: I should add that it works seamlessly, you install apt-btrfs-snapshot and you get snapshots plus a cli to manually create/list/delete
<mvo> (well, on my test machine anyway ;)
<robbiew> sweet
<robbiew> heh
<barry> nice
<robbiew> ubuntu timemachine
<mvo> indeed, a bit like it
<robbiew> anything else?
<robbiew> going once......
<robbiew> twice.....
<robbiew> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:32.
<psurbhi> thanks!
<robbiew> thnx all!
<mvo> thanks
<jhunt__> thx
<barry> thanks!
<ev> thanks
<highvoltage> Anyone present for an Edubuntu meeting? :)
 * alkisg waves
 * mgariepy waves
 * highvoltage rolls
<highvoltage> http://www.uct.ac.za/images/uct.ac.za/contact/campusmaps/big/upper.jpg
<highvoltage> oope, not that one
<highvoltage> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/Meetings/Agenda
<highvoltage> should we make Edubuntu meetings monthly instead and just plan more if we need them?
<mgariepy> Would work for me.
<highvoltage> we don't usually have many people attending, and most of us that do usually follow #edubuntu
<alkisg> Sounds good
<alkisg> Or we could have shorter meetings :)
<alkisg> :P
<highvoltage> we've been doing that too :)
<highvoltage> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/Devel/RoadMap
<highvoltage> Feature Freeze is next week
<highvoltage> so I'll work on getting acire/python-snippits in
<highvoltage> librecad is uploaded, so we'll change the seeds to switch qcad for librecad
<highvoltage> stgraber said that he should be ok working on the ubiquity stuff before then
<highvoltage> not sure if mhall119 made progress for the qimo gnome session yet, but as I know him he'll probably pop in any moment to give an update
<highvoltage> I emailed the artwork team to let them know about our intentions working with doctormo, hopefully that turns out ok
<highvoltage> and that's it I can think of now. anyone else have any news of what's been happening in Edubuntu recently?
<alkisg> The italc problem didn't cause much noise after all...
<alkisg> Nope, nothing from me
<mgariepy> nothing for me
<highvoltage> alkisg: yeah, I was (pleasantly) surprised
<highvoltage> ok, let's call it a meeting then, thanks alkisg and mgariepy
<alkisg> Ty highvoltage
<mgariepy> thank you guys
 * mhall119 pops in
<mhall119> no qimo progress at all to report ;9
<mhall119> :(
<mhall119> debmower still doesn't work, and I haven't gotten around to ripping apart an xubuntu iso yet
<mhall119> highvoltage: if push comes to shove, is there room on the DVD for Xfce?
<highvoltage> mhall119: hmm, room yes, I think the bigger issue is shipping another desktop environment.
<highvoltage> mhall119: I have some time allocated to work on debmower, I'm also going to look at Offspring and see if it's worth while, it's CA'd though and I'm not sure if I'd be comfortable with the future of that
<mhall119> CA'd?
<highvoltage> copyright assigned
<mhall119> ah
<highvoltage> I'm not too confortable of having the possibility of having a free software project that might have to compete with an exact non-free version, but that possibly has more features added for show or something
<mhall119> we can fork it though, if we wanted to
<mhall119> it's OSI licensed?
<highvoltage> yep
<highvoltage> cody-somerville: will it support building debian CDs too?
<cody-somerville> highvoltage, Offspring isn't a build tool its self. If the build tool you use for a project supports it, then yes. Offspring ships with support for using live-build out of the box which is actually a Debian project. It supports building theoretically any Debian-based system.
<highvoltage> cody-somerville: ok, that's pretty cool then
 * stgraber waves
#ubuntu-meeting 2011-02-17
<czajkowski> http://design.canonical.com/brand/10.%20Photography%20treatments.pdf  <----- very useful document
<NCommander> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 09:00. The chair is NCommander.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
 * rsalveti waves
<NCommander> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2011/20110217
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2011/20110217
<NCommander> Who's here this morning
<janimo> hello
 * NCommander pokes GrueMaster ogra persia 
<NCommander> and davidm
 * GrueMaster is pre-caffeinated.
<GrueMaster> davidm may be running late.
<GrueMaster> (he mentioned it last night in a different channel).
<NCommander> ah
 * ogra pokes NCommander back
 * NCommander is poked
<NCommander> k
<NCommander> let's go
<NCommander> [topic] Action Item Review
<MootBot> New Topic:  Action Item Review
<NCommander> [topic] NCommander to talk to the release team on which team to track w.r.t. to bugs (co)
<MootBot> New Topic:  NCommander to talk to the release team on which team to track w.r.t. to bugs (co)
<NCommander> Done. Thanks ogra for bringing it up at the release meeting
<NCommander> [topic] Standing Items
<MootBot> New Topic:  Standing Items
<ogra> i didnt
<NCommander> ogra: I thought you said you did in #ubuntu-release
<rsalveti> I had one action to talk with cooloney to work on the DVI patches, and he's already working on it
<ogra> i just changed our report but that didnt mean that kate used the other tracker
 * NCommander coughs
<ogra> she does now after our conversation in #ubuntu-release, yes
<NCommander> I also did talk with skaet_ on this the other day
<ogra> i dodnt think she noticed it in the report
<NCommander> ah
<ogra> (which is why you should talk to her ;) )
<NCommander> either way, its resolved
<ogra> yes
<ogra> :)
<NCommander> [link] http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/ubuntu-armel.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/ubuntu-armel.html
<NCommander> [link] http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/ubuntu-armel-natty-alpha-3.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/ubuntu-armel-natty-alpha-3.html
<NCommander> no comments on the workitem tracker?
<ogra> we look pretty good i'd say
<NCommander> cool
<ogra> we need to move items next week though
 * NCommander moves on
<NCommander> [topic] Unity 2D Status
<ogra> if there are any we dont make
<MootBot> New Topic:  Unity 2D Status
<rsalveti> also good :-)
<ogra> its on the images since yesterday
<ogra> i'll care for the new upstream next week
<GrueMaster> And semi-works too.
<ogra> the dash isnt fixed in that version
<ogra> upstream has the fix already afaik
<ogra> upstream is at 3.4 while we are at 3.2
<GrueMaster> Is une-efl still seeded in the image or no?
<ogra> no
<ogra> its gone to universe already
<rsalveti> oh, cool
<GrueMaster> Ok.  Hadn't checked due to other high priority testing.
<GrueMaster> It was useful in that unity-2d can't launch apps yet.
<ogra> we're waiting for QT for NEON stuff
<ogra> it launches apps for me
<ogra> just doesnt show the dash
<GrueMaster> Try launching a terminal.
<ogra> well, shows it but doesnt get you search results
<ogra> i dont have a terminal in the launcher
<ogra> and the dash doesnt work
<ogra> what i click on in the launcher works here
<GrueMaster> Filemanager also crashes, but I think that is due to the icons bug.
<ogra> hmm, works for me too
<GrueMaster> (can't tell as I have no terminal. )  :P
<ogra> i have issues with it on my x86 lappie, but not on the panda
<ogra> but as i said. new upstrea pending that will solve the dash issue
<GrueMaster> Open the file manager and go to /usr/share/applications.  It will crash trying to display the .desktop icons.
<GrueMaster> (which was the alternate way to launch the terminal)
<ogra> ah, i didnt try that
<ogra> well, overall unity-2d looks ok apart from known bugs
<GrueMaster> yep
<rsalveti> that's fine
<ogra> NCommander, move (if there arent any other issues)
<rsalveti> now we need to blog about it :-)
<rsalveti> or wait alpha-3
<NCommander> [topic] Kernel Status (cooloney, rsalveti)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Kernel Status (cooloney, rsalveti)
<ogra> rsalveti, davidm alrteady did ;)
<ogra> see planet
<rsalveti> new kernel for omap3, based on 38-rc5, should work quite same way for us
<rsalveti> ogra: nice, will check
<rsalveti> for omap 4 cooloney is still working on the DVI patches
<rsalveti> once he's done he'll update the ti-omap4-dev branch
<ogra> did anyone test the ppa kernel yet ?
<rsalveti> janimo?
<janimo> I ran it today
<janimo> and booted, but reverted to .35 after that
<rsalveti> should work, as it's basically upstream
<ogra> what didnt work ? ;)
<janimo> I tried turning off proc1
<janimo> and the command hung
<janimo> even if the board did not
<ogra> no PM in that kernel
<janimo> so no CPU hitplug?
<ogra> so thats not surprising
<janimo> the sysfs file is exposed though
<rsalveti> janimo: don't expect pm to work :-)
<ogra> i would think hotplug is a PM feature
<janimo> it should not if it does not work
<rsalveti> well, pm is there
<GrueMaster> That's the same on .35 kernel.
<rsalveti> just doesn't work :-)
<ogra> GrueMaster, on the natty .35 one ?
<janimo> also I saw tiwlann errors in dmesg but maybe I did not nstall some firmware pkg
<ogra> there it should work
<janimo> did not test much else
<rsalveti> janimo: could be
<GrueMaster> Mmm.  May have been mav.
<janimo> as I wanted to build mono and did not want to risk an oops or something
<ogra> natty .35 has the PM patches
<rsalveti> natty should be fine
<GrueMaster> I hit it testing f-spot last night.
<rsalveti> I tested yesterday while testing mono
<ogra> .38 wont have or get them though
<janimo> rsalveti, so tiwlan on panda should work without TI PPA now?
<rsalveti> put second cpu off and still going fine
<janimo> that would be nice
<rsalveti> janimo: yup, just need the right firmware
<janimo> hmm, so a restriced package just as on x86?
<janimo> without needed to fetch from the TI ppa?
<ogra> likely that way
<persia> Is the firmware merged into linux-firmware?
<rsalveti> yeah
<ogra> persia, not yet
<janimo> anyway we'll discuss in #arm  later
<ogra> and i think the codebase isnt fully merged either yet
<rsalveti> but no other news from TI
<rsalveti> nor Linaro, about newer changes for OMAP 4
<ogra> we have to wait for TI's "go"
<janimo> do TI make a new code drop in the PPA sometime?
<janimo> ok
<rsalveti> once we have the "go" we can update the branch and publish it to the ppa
<ogra> janimo, for natty, yes, but note they are not bound to release schedule
<janimo> sure
<ogra> its a PPA after all
<ogra> just needs to be ready by release
<janimo> I see tiwlan firmware on x86 so maybe I just need to get that pkg on the panda too
<janimo> if it is built against this kernel version
<ogra> try it :)
<rsalveti> current schedule ways that we'll have a working 38 kernel days before the final release hehe :-)
<rsalveti> *says
<ogra> if it works we can just pull it over
<rsalveti> we'll see :-)
<rsalveti> move?
<ogra> well, as long as we have sound and display we can drop .35 imho
<NCommander> [topic] QA Status (GrueMaster)
<MootBot> New Topic:  QA Status (GrueMaster)
<rsalveti> ogra: probably
<ogra> the other features will just stream in
<GrueMaster> This week has been busy with a flurry of kernel updates from the kernel team on older releases.
<ogra> and network :)
<ogra> oh, we moved =
<persia> And USB, please.
<GrueMaster> sigh.
<ogra> persia, network expects USb
<GrueMaster> Kernel updates for Lucid and Maverick on Dove have a serious regression in that they corrupt the console output.
<rsalveti> ouch
<GrueMaster> Also working on a revised script for pulling a bug list from LP that better suits the teams needs.  WIP.
<GrueMaster> May not be able to get everything as some search query capabilities appear to be missing from lplib.
<ogra> file bugs ;)
<GrueMaster> Linaro team has me hopping on some old (karmic) bugs.  Apparently they can't reproduce the failures on natty with newer platforms.  Go figure.
<ogra> heh
<GrueMaster> ogra: planned on it once I can dive back in.  Kernel testing preempted this for the moment.
<GrueMaster> That's it for QA.
<ogra> great
<NCommander> [topic] ARM Porting/FTBFS status (NCommander, janimo)
<MootBot> New Topic:  ARM Porting/FTBFS status (NCommander, janimo)
<janimo> triaged/tested and closed a few bugs in yesterday's porting jam
<NCommander> Did some debugging work on mono, made some interesting progress
<janimo> fixed one more alignment related FTBFS during the week
<NCommander> janimo: any chance you looked at kdebindings? I'm stumped on that build failure, and a second set of eyes might help
<janimo> NCommander, ok, will take a look
<ogra> the mono smp finding was awesome, kudos to rsalveti and GrueMaster !!
<janimo> yes
<NCommander> ogra: unfortunately, even adding memory barriers to mono doesn't quite fix it :-(
<NCommander> If anything, it breaks worse now
<rsalveti> urgh
<janimo> I think both banshee bugs have the same root and should be dupes
<GrueMaster> It will be a major step in the right direction.
<rsalveti> NCommander: did you talk with upstream already?
<NCommander> rsalveti: yeah, and we cooked a patch
<janimo> NCommander, did they have a patch in 2.8 or 2.10 already?
<NCommander> http://pastebin.com/aRZ0R2HK - for reference
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://pastebin.com/aRZ0R2HK - for reference
<ogra> NCommander, it works with nosmp
<NCommander> janimo: no charges to the code in 2.8 or 2.10, I am working against 2.10 for the moment with intergration with upstream
<NCommander> ogra: yes, I know :-)
<ogra> rthats a massive progress
<rsalveti> we can just say, turn one cpu off in case you want to play music with banshee :-)
<janimo> NCommander, is that for armv6?
<ogra> rsalveti, if PM works ;)
<NCommander> janimo: and great, we're continuing to work on it :-/
<rsalveti> ogra: haha, true
<janimo> on ARMv7 memory barrier is DMB I think no coprocessor instrucitons involved
<ogra> but yeah, gross hack but would work
<NCommander> janimo: we decided for the sake of upstream to do it with the MCR instruction so they don't have to specifically decide at runtime which ARM variant we're on :-/
<janimo> NCommander, from what I've seen in the code they test for armv7 in a few places already, but it's ok
<NCommander> janimo: I think I figured out why our code is busted though
<janimo> what seems interesting is that on their CI site (monkeywrench) 2.8/arm/ubuntu 9.04 passes tests
 * NCommander is now more awake and relooking at the patch
<davidm> G;day NCommander ogra janimo rsalveti GrueMaster persia
<ogra> how about discussing that offline ?
<ogra> seems to get a bit to much into detail for the meeting
<GrueMaster> janimo: 9.04 was armv5 iirc.
<janimo> GrueMaster, oh that would explain a lot of things
<ogra> yes
<ogra> 9.04 was essentially debian recompiled
<janimo> they don;t have more arm boards to set up more CI boxes. too bad
<GrueMaster> They can order panda's.  :P
<ogra> move ??
<NCommander> [topic] ARM Image Status (ogra, NCommander)
<MootBot> New Topic:  ARM Image Status (ogra, NCommander)
<ogra> failed today (as all arches did)
<GrueMaster> yep
<ogra> thanks to computer-janitor
<ogra> lool fixed that afaik
<GrueMaster> Zzzzzz
<NCommander> [topic] AOB
<MootBot> New Topic:  AOB
<ogra> flash-kernel has issues with panda with the new kernel
 * NCommander groans
<ogra> specifically with linaro using a unified omap flavour
<NCommander> ogra: ugh, they changed omap4 to use 'omap'?
<ogra> but also with the kernel reporting omap4 boards differently
 * NCommander notes that breaks a ton of sanity checks ...
<ogra> NCommander, yes
<ogra> that was on their roadmap for quite some time
<GrueMaster> How will that even be possible?
<ogra> ??
<ogra> it apparently works
<GrueMaster> Can one kernel run both platforms?
<ogra> ask linaro kernel devs how they did it
<ogra> sure
<GrueMaster> ok
<rsalveti> sure, at least one omap kernel for all
<rsalveti> that's the upstream direction
<ogra> well, i guess it wont run on omap2
<rsalveti> hehe, true
<rsalveti> omap 3 and omap 4
<ogra> but who has the hw to test that anyway
<GrueMaster> Oh, boohoo.
<rsalveti> nobody cares for omap 2 anymore
<ogra> anyway, just wanted to mention it
<ogra> aob seemed appropriate
<GrueMaster> Interesting.
<rsalveti> and soon just one u-boot too
<ogra> we need to look into that
<ogra> and most likely reqork some of the subarch detection
<rsalveti> x-loader should still be different for the moment, as it needs the hardware id
<GrueMaster> ...and in the darkness, bind them.
<ogra> (as we need to do for blaze anyway to fix the open bug)
<janimo> these are all post natty right? unified uboot and kernel
<ogra> janimo, fixing flash-kernel is natty
<ogra> bootloaders arent
<rsalveti> janimo: unified probably
<janimo> right, I mean omap3/4 unification
<janimo> binaries
<ogra> and will likely require HW changes anyway
<ogra> the rom code wont just handle unified x-loader
<rsalveti> nops
<ogra> janimo, unified kernels are reality in linaro
<rsalveti> but only one u-boot and kernel is cool enough already
<ogra> and flash-kernel currently breajs for them
<ogra> 'breaks
<rsalveti> lool seems to be fixing it
<ogra> lool fixes upstream
<ogra> we need to fix it downstream for the moment
<ogra> debian doesnt support omap4 yet
<ogra> and i dont even thing omap3 atm
<persia> So we should have unified kernels in "linux" for natty+1?
<rsalveti> at least for omap
<ogra> yes
<persia> Cool.
<ogra> possibly +2 who knows
<ogra> in any case linaro has it today
<ogra> anyway, thats all from me
<rsalveti> I'm also done
<NCommander> anything else?
<rsalveti> move! :-)
<NCommander> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 09:52.
<lool> rsalveti: I'm not working on Ubuntu's flash-kernel ATM
<rsalveti> lool: yeah, ogra explained
<lool> rsalveti: So I don't think I'll be fixing any Linaro/Ubuntu issue soon; the work I'm doing is rather longer term investment in having a more useful flash-kernel
<rsalveti> but good anyway
<ogra> lool, thats what i expected
<lool> In any case, I kept relatively quiet on this because I don't want to discourage people from improving flash-kernel just because I might possibly be working on it
<beardygnome> hi charlie-tca, we're selling our house at the moment and I've got someone coming round to see it for the first half of the meeting, but will try to make the second half.
<charlie-tca> Okay, thanks for letting me know
<charlie-tca> take your time with the house. That is more important
<beardygnome> cheers charlie-tca, catch you later
<charlie-tca> I would like to keep this a short meeting. I am already a week behind on minutes from last week, so we got to wing it a bit
<charlie-tca> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 12:59. The chair is charlie-tca.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<charlie-tca> Welcome to the Xubuntu Weekly community meeting
<charlie-tca> The full agenda is available at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings
<charlie-tca> [TOPIC] Old Business
<MootBot> New Topic:  Old Business
<charlie-tca> Since I am behind on the minutes, does anyone remember if there is any old business to discuss?
<knome> marketing
<knome> says agenda
<knome> no - i think that's for the prev meetin
<knome> +g
<charlie-tca> Yes, we still need to create a marketing plan on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu
<charlie-tca> any volunteers to do that?
<ochosi> yeah, btw i'm sorry since i wasn't here the last couple of days i didn't manage to move the publicity-section from shimmer-wiki to the xubuntu wiki yet
<charlie-tca> No problem, I remembered you were gonna be busy
<knome> don't add a specific action for me, but i'll work on the marketing plan, probably with ochosi and mr_pouit (and maybe pleia2)
<charlie-tca> and make it on the wiki?
<knome> it would be great if ochosi could take the item so we can move our plans to the ubuntu wiki once we have something more
<Sysi> knome suggested it for me once but i'll propably be just watching and trying to learn
<charlie-tca> Okay, carried forward then
<knome> i need to go toi toilet, but you could even make it a shimmer action
<knome> :P
<charlie-tca> (yes, i am in a bit of a hurry today)
<charlie-tca> [ACTION] shimmer project to move items pertaining to Xubuntu to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu
<MootBot> ACTION received:  shimmer project to move items pertaining to Xubuntu to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu
<charlie-tca> Thanks, knome
<charlie-tca> [TOPIC] Team updates - Team Leads
<MootBot> New Topic:  Team updates - Team Leads
<charlie-tca> [TOPIC] Packaging & Development
<MootBot> New Topic:  Packaging & Development
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: your turn for updating us
<mr_pouit> okay, sorry for being late
 * charlie-tca thinks you got here right on time, packaging and development updates
<mr_pouit> * More syncs from debian experimental
<mr_pouit> * Updated xfce4-session and tumbler to the latest upstream releases
<mr_pouit> * More bugfixes/improvements for xubuntu-default-settings (Bug #79053, Bug #718177, mostly menu tuning, feedback welcome!)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 79053 in xfdesktop "Network menu entry is confusing (Xubuntu)" [Unknown,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/79053
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 718177 in xubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu) "The current Xubuntu menu hides too many entries" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/718177
<mr_pouit> * Uploaded update-notifier to fix restarting with 4.8 (Bug #716905)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 716905 in update-notifier (Ubuntu Natty) "[Xubuntu] Unable to restart" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/716905
<mr_pouit> * Fixed a few plugins to work with the new panel (xfce4-weather-plugin, xfce4-timer-plugin).
<charlie-tca> I want to say the weather plugin is working in Natty now
<mr_pouit> great
<mr_pouit> and some bugs reported for the integration with ubiquity
<mr_pouit> that's all
<charlie-tca> You have been busy!
<mr_pouit> as I wrote, some feedback is welcome for the menu
<charlie-tca> Thank you for your hard work.
<ochosi> one more quick note in the packaging department from me: i'm working hard on making gmusicbrowser final for natty, should be ready next week before the freeze
<ochosi> iirc micahg does the packaging of that one?
<charlie-tca> yup
<mr_pouit> (yeah, the two remaining items are a new elementary-icon-theme release and gmusicbrowser)
<charlie-tca> and the wallpaper, right?
<knome> that isn't a "feature" ?
<micahg> yeah, I've been trying, I need to get someone to show me how to get the debian upstream dir not to import
<ochosi> yep about elementary icons: talked with upstream today, they will do a new release for us in time for the feature freeze and will also accept our packages until then
<mr_pouit> yeah, but it can be uploaded after feature freeze (next thursday)
<mr_pouit> (the wp)
<charlie-tca> okay
<ochosi> micahg: can we talk about gmusicbrowser in #xubuntu-devel after the meeting?
<mr_pouit> for the icon theme and gmb, it's easier it they are ready before that :)
<mr_pouit> s/it/if/
<charlie-tca> micahg: mr_pouit or cody-somerville should be able to help with that, can't they?
<micahg> charlie-tca: well, it's a git issue
<charlie-tca> oh
<charlie-tca> any other questions for Packaging and Development?
<charlie-tca> thank you, mr_pouit.
<mr_pouit> :)
<charlie-tca> [TOPIC] Bug Triage & Testing
<MootBot> New Topic:  Bug Triage & Testing
<charlie-tca> Busy couple of weeks. This week we tested the iso images for 10.04.2
<charlie-tca> and they passed
<charlie-tca> I fell down on bugs again, but will pick them up next week
<charlie-tca> We need some testers and probably a new testing lead, if anyone is interested
<charlie-tca> We need to have some more people looking at Natty, so we can get the feedback to mr_pouit and ochosi in time for any changes needed.
<charlie-tca> We have Natty Alpha3 coming out in two weeks.
<ochosi> mhm, good point
<ochosi> > marketing?
<charlie-tca> Xubuntu 10.04.2 will be released either today or tomorrow, depending on testing for Kubuntu and Ubuntu
<charlie-tca> what marketing?
<charlie-tca> did I get lost again?
<knome> next topic?
<Sysi> i didn't get alpha2 to boot from usb, syslinux config fail
<charlie-tca> any questions on bugs and testing?
<ochosi> (no i meant: maybe getting more people to test is also an issue for marketing)
<charlie-tca> Sysi: correct
<knome> i suppose it's an issue for anything
<charlie-tca> If you create the image on 10.10 or 10.04, you have to type "live" or " help" at the boot:  prompt
<charlie-tca> then it will work
<charlie-tca> and I don't know why
<mr_pouit> I guess unity is getting all attention, that's why we have less testers
<charlie-tca> [TOPIC] Website & Marketing
<MootBot> New Topic:  Website & Marketing
<charlie-tca> We do have users running Natty, and they are quite happy so far
<charlie-tca> anyone have an update on this? pleia2 or knome maybe?
<knome> no updates. i suppose pleia2 should investigate if we can switch to wordpres
<knome> +s
<pleia2> I was supposed to ask knome to do some drafts with a grey background and a black background as some folks requested at the last meeting, but I didn't
<knome> pleia2, well now you did :)
<pleia2> :)
<charlie-tca> I am sorry, it would have helped if I had gotten the minutes out
<pleia2> not sure who I can follow up with re: wordpress, would that be cody? or canonical?
<knome> pleia2, probably canonical IS would be the best place to ask
<charlie-tca> I don't know for sure
<charlie-tca> I think it is Canonical, though
<knome> pleia2, afaik cody can't decide anything (he can help on us getting what we want though)
<pleia2> ok, I can submit an rt ticket to get things started
<charlie-tca> okay
<knome> pleia2, err, if there is any other way, please use that
<charlie-tca> You want an action for any of that?
<knome> it took over two years for my last rt tickets to go through
<knome> and they were really trivial
<pleia2> knome: the process I tend to find works best is submit rt ticket, then join #canonical-sysadmin after a couple weeks and ask directly :)
<knome> pleia2, sure, feel free to ask me to join as well
<charlie-tca> It helps to know how to push
<pleia2> but they are currently under a lot of pressure to upgrade the wiki, so I'm not hopeful that they'll have time in the super near future
<pleia2> (they have wiki plans that are being put into place these next few weeks, yay!)
<charlie-tca> A nice change for O maybe?
<knome> pleia2, also, do you have time to look at the website later today - let's say at 22 or 23 utc?
<pleia2> knome: I can try, I don't get out of work until 1UTC
<knome> okay. ping me @ #shimmer
<pleia2> k
<knome> anyway, i have a proposal
<charlie-tca> Thank you for the update, pleia2.
<knome> let's arrange a skype meeting to discuss the marketing plans
<charlie-tca> knome: proposal for here or for pleia2 ?
<knome> as well as possible changes to the xubuntu strategy document
<knome> here
<charlie-tca> go ahead
<knome> ^ there you go ;)
<charlie-tca> Don't we all need skype to do that?
<knome> yeah. we can do any other voip-call as well, if skype is a problem
<charlie-tca> I don't have any, but you can conference me in, if needed
<knome> but i think it would make much more sense if we could really discuss things
<Sysi> does everybody have a microphone?
<knome> not only by typing
<knome> arrangeable, i think
<charlie-tca> No, but I can get one
<knome> i'm not proposing on keeping the meeting now, but arranging one later
<charlie-tca> okay, knome is to set up a tele-conference of some type to discuss marketing
<knome> you can add an action item for me to do some preparation stuff for that
<Sysi> (mumble?)
<charlie-tca> [ACTION] knome is to set up a tele-conference of some type to discuss marketing
<MootBot> ACTION received:  knome is to set up a tele-conference of some type to discuss marketing
<charlie-tca> leaves it nicely open to what ever can be done
<knome> ...as well as the strategy document and the future of xubuntu
<knome> :)
<charlie-tca> I don't think I can hit that one today, but it is still in the minutes, too
<charlie-tca> I keep carrying it forward
<knome> sure
<charlie-tca> visibility counts
<charlie-tca> [TOPIC] artwork
<MootBot> New Topic:  artwork
<mr_pouit> Not an update, but a todo item: we need someone to update the slideshows displayed during the installation, they are badly outdated (they were made for karmic or lucid)
<mr_pouit> (sorry, that was for marketing)
<charlie-tca> valid point
<ochosi> yeah, true
<charlie-tca> that is artwork too
<knome> artwork but documentation as well
<charlie-tca> That just hits everything, huh?
<knome> mmh
<charlie-tca> [ACTION] find someone to update the slideshow
<MootBot> ACTION received:  find someone to update the slideshow
<knome> i can work on the technical/artwork side
<charlie-tca> ochosi: any updates?
<knome> but i need somebody who knows natty
<charlie-tca> I kind of know natty
<ochosi> hm, yeah, small updates
<ochosi> mr_pouit helped me figure out the last remaining issues for panel-plugins in greybird
<charlie-tca> knome: we will get together somehow on it
<ochosi> i think in alpha3 everything should work great
<Sysi> i'll be testing natty (and i have archlinux with xfce 4.8)
<ochosi> but the changes are not comitted yet
<ochosi> i have to test it a bit more and and clean up the code for the panel in greybird (which i couldn't do yet since i was away till today)
<ochosi> the xfwm theme is still missing the stick-button, but i'll add the one from bluebird for now, i think it'll work ok and then the xfwm-theme is also complete
<charlie-tca> ochosi: can it be done by Feature Freeze on the 24th?
<ochosi> those two items can be done, yes
<ochosi> i'm also looking for problems in the icon theme
<ochosi> so far everything seems ok
<charlie-tca> ouch, I forgot, I got one more for you
<ochosi> especially after i've done the appfinder-icon
<ochosi> yes?
<mr_pouit> (even if it's not fully ready, it's more bugfixes than new features, so it's ok to upload later imho)
<charlie-tca> change the cursor color and size, it reverts to default in parts of the desktop and windows
<ochosi> cursor-color and size means mouse-cursor?
<charlie-tca> yes
<ochosi> hm, to be honest i
<ochosi> 've never dealt with the mouse pointer
<charlie-tca> It will be the changed cursor in the window, then revert in the title bar
<Sysi> charlie-tca: for what i know it's common 4.8 problem
<charlie-tca> darn
<charlie-tca> Thanks, Sysi
<Sysi> (have it on arch too)
<ochosi> k, so i guess that's an upstream bugreport, not artwork :)
<charlie-tca> Well, never mind then
<mr_pouit> yeah, it was present in 4.6 already
<charlie-tca> Any questions or comments for artwork?
<Sysi> but it's after X restart too?
<ochosi> ok, if anyone finds other missing or problematic icons in elementary (pulled from launchpad/bzr), please let me know
<charlie-tca> It depends on the theme, Sysi
<charlie-tca> some do it no matter what, others are not as bad when starting, but get worse over time
<Sysi> still propably upstream thing
<charlie-tca> yeah
<charlie-tca> since it does spread itself over many themes
<charlie-tca> [TOPIC]Discuss panel launchers for natty
<MootBot> New Topic: Discuss panel launchers for natty
<ochosi> ok, the generic icons/launchers should also be ready for natty, haven't tested them yet personally
<charlie-tca> Are they in natty, or need to be downloaded?
<ochosi> should be uploaded already
<ochosi> right mr_pouit ?
<knome> left charlie-tca
<knome> har har
<charlie-tca> I will be testing the images this weekend
<knome> :)
<ochosi> what a funny knome :)
<ochosi> ok great
<mr_pouit> yep, uploaded already
<charlie-tca> Thank you, ochosi and mr_pouit
<charlie-tca> anything else for the default launchers?
<ochosi> my suggestion for panel items would be something like: Desktop | Browser Email Musicplayer Terminal Abiword | Folders and maybe Trash
<ochosi> oh, and Software Center
<Sysi> terminal in panel is.. handy but questionable
<charlie-tca> software center ? people really use that?
<Sysi> i think advertising it would be good
<charlie-tca> I agree with the panel launcher list as presented then
<ochosi> oh, and Appfinder
<Sysi> if it fits our target groups
<ochosi> ok
<Sysi> personally i've never used appfinder, and would it give good picture about xubuntu?
<charlie-tca> [IDEA] Default panel launchers to be Desktop | Browser Email Musicplayer Terminal Abiword SoftwareCenter Appfinder | Folders
<MootBot> IDEA received:  Default panel launchers to be Desktop | Browser Email Musicplayer Terminal Abiword SoftwareCenter Appfinder | Folders
<charlie-tca> appfinder is xfce specific and it is great
<ochosi> +1
<Sysi> though i don't see real promlems in about anything added to panel
<ochosi> and: it will get even better in xfce 4.10
<charlie-tca> It lets you find any app on the computer, whether or not they show in the menus
<charlie-tca> and it is fast. I have been using in Natty, since we didn't have a menu when I upgraded.
<charlie-tca> I did tell a gnome guy to use one day, that was bad
<charlie-tca> s/use one/use appfinder one
<charlie-tca> any other comments on launchers?
<ochosi> sry people, g2g
<ochosi> will read the log tomorrow
<charlie-tca> [TOPIC] Announcements
<MootBot> New Topic:  Announcements
<charlie-tca> I have one announcement - Xfce is starting on 4.10 now, to be ready in January 2012.
<charlie-tca> It will include Accessibility built in, if it goes according to plan
<charlie-tca> and if it stays on schedule - ready for LTS release in April 2012
<mr_pouit> thunar 1.3.0 is already out (first development release for 4.10)
<charlie-tca> Thanks, ochosi
<charlie-tca> late agaibn
<charlie-tca> [TOPIC] Any Other Business
<MootBot> New Topic:  Any Other Business
<charlie-tca> Does anyone have anything further for this meeting?
<charlie-tca> I propose we take up the strategy document starting in three weeks, a bit at a time.
<charlie-tca> the meeting of March 10 is what I am thinking
<charlie-tca> I want to thank everyone for attending and participating in this meeting.
<charlie-tca> we will have another meeting in one week, 2011-02-24 at 19:00 UTC
<charlie-tca> Thanks, all
<charlie-tca> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 13:52.
<charlie-tca> and we will need to discuss alternate meeting times later too
<beardygnome> hi, is the meeting still going?
<Sysi> <MootBot> Meeting finished at 13:52.
<beardygnome> cheers, i'll catch up with charlie-tca in xubuntu-devel
#ubuntu-meeting 2011-02-18
 * greg-g waves
 * beuno waves
<greg-g> hiya
<maco> hola, amigos
<Pendulum> hiya maco :)
<nhandler> o/
<beuno> so, should we get this party started?
<greg-g> sure
<pleia2> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 19:00. The chair is pleia2.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<pleia2> Hello and welcome to the Ubuntu Membership Review Board for the Americas meeting for February 18th, 2011. The wiki page for the Review Board is available here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/RegionalBoards/Americas
<pleia2> We will attempt to get through all of the applicants that have added themselves to that list before today's meeting. If we are unable to make it through the entire list due to time constraints, then at the next meeting we will pick up where we left off.
<pleia2> The format for the meeting is as follows: We will go through the list of applicants one by one, by date of application (FIFO).
<pleia2> Each applicant should introduce themselves (1-5 sentences) and provide links to their Ubuntu Wiki page. After the introduction the members of the Membership Review Board will review the pages and, if needed, ask the applicant further questions.
<pleia2> During this time it is encouraged for other members of the community to show their support for the applicant. Do not be alarmed if the members of the Membership Review Board are quiet during this time; they are most likely reading wiki/launchpad/forum/other pages and deciding how they are going to vote.
<pleia2> When the board is ready to vote, they will publicly vote in the channel with either +1, 0, or -1 (for membership, abstain, and against membership, respectively). If the sum of those numbers is positive, then the applicant is now an official Ubuntu member! (feel free congratulate them!)
<pleia2> Now, with any further ado, lets get started with the first applicant...
<pleia2> geeknik doesn't appear to be here
<pleia2> james78 are you here?
<james78> Roger.
<pleia2> great!
<pleia2> [TOPIC] james78 membership
<MootBot> New Topic:  james78 membership
<james78> Alright. Here goes.
<james78> I'm a computer geek (haha), been using Ubuntu since 8.04 LTS, and never turned back since really.
<james78> I enjoy programming in my spare time, (PHP, Python, etc)
<james78> More recently I've gotten involved with Ubuntu Server. I've setup my own site using it (including BIND, Apache, Postfix, all the works!).
<james78> I've learned a lot through the process.
<james78> I'm applying for membership because I'd like to get more involved in helping out (tech support).
<james78> For example, making wiki pages, help documenation, and especially the Ubuntu Forums.
<james78> I'm a very active member on the Ubuntu Forums in fact. :)
<maco> since you said you went and learned to handle server stuff, any chance you've been helping folks out in #ubuntu-server?
<james78> If you've seen my recent Wiki page vs last time, I've launched a new phpBB MODification also (PHP).
<maco> (if this is on your wiki page, sorry, my connection is really slow)
<james78> maco: I'm not very active in IRC type things yet, but I plan on soon helping people out a lot in IRC as well as the original methods.
<maco> or mailing list or server subforum....
<maco> server questions tend to go unanswered in #ubuntu due to being a bit specialised knowledge, so getting more help on that front is always nice
<james78> On Ubuntu Forums I help out mostly in Server Platforms and General Help. :)
<james78> Good to know. :)
<james78> I'd be happy to help out more on that front.
<nhandler> james78: You mentioned wanting to do some work with the doc team. Have you done any so far?
<james78> nhandler: I haven't done any doc work yet, that's one of my future goals at the moment, but right now, like I said, my most main goals are tech support and more tech support. :)
<james78> If anyone wants to see an example of some work I've done for my website in fact. http://paste.umaclan.com/
<james78> I've made most of that from scratch, the theme especially, but also most of the features.
<james78> It's made in Python, using Werkzeug atm.
<maco> james78: so uh, in what part of the world are you? Is there a LoCo nearby?
<james78> I live in Washington, US. This was a topic of discussion last time in fact! There is a Washington LoCo team, however I don't know at the moment exactly where they're located though.
<james78> I plan on finding out. :)
<greg-g> james78: (when you're done with maco's question) You listed some bug work, have you gotten involved with the bug squad? read the triaging guides?
<maco> ah ok, sorry i missed last month. i think i was moving to the /other/ washington :)
<maco> james78: i believe there are some in the Seattle direction. valorie in #kubuntu could give you info
<ScottK> to/close to
<maco> ScottK: across the street
<ScottK> very close
<james78> greg-g: That was another one of my goals slated for the future. My bug work currently has just been reporting, confirming, and the like.
<james78> maco: 6 hours from here. :/ I live in a small town.
<greg-g> ah, I see.
<maco> james78: well valorie's involved in organising things over there, so she could probably tell you what's on your side of the state
<maco> worth a shot at least
<james78> Indeed. (:
<james78> Right now I'm working on increasing my knowledge of Python, and I plan to sometime start using something liek pyGTK and pyKDE to make some useful apps, then get them into the repositories. Still researching ideas for good apps though.
<beuno> james78, I really like all the help you've been giving out in the forums
<pleia2> james78: last month I mentioned that "we'd really like to see you getting into some of those areas you mentioned, documentation, packaging, bug triaging and reporting"
<pleia2> I think I'd really like to see more of this, maybe going ahead and getting involved with bug squad if bugs are the way you want to go (looks like you have started!)
<james78> In fact, I actually have a KDE bug I need to report ha. Kubuntu backports. :P
<maco> james78: fixing up existing apps also = helpful
<james78> beuno: Thanks. :)
<maco> so if you see a bug on launchpad in a python app..
<greg-g> I really recommend getting involved with the bug triaging team. they're very friendly and helpful. The IRC channel (#ubuntu-bugs) is a great place to hang out.
<greg-g> Also, if you have any questions about triaging, feel free to ping me in #ubuntu-bugs and I can probably help you out.
<james78> greg-g: Alrighty.
<ScottK> james78: https://bugs.launchpad.net/~pythonistas/+packagebugs are bugs in Python packages that maco can upload the fix if you can tell her what it is.
<maco> ScottK: they're all motu-capable packages?
<james78> Oh, by the way, last time I was here, it was also mentioned that I should get a few more recommendations. I worked hard (Ubuntu Forums) and asked a lot of people to give me some recommendations, 2 or 3 more (that aren't on my wiki page) said they would, but didn't do it I guess. I however did get another recommendation from 1 user, and from a ubuntu forums staff member (cariboo907 I think).
<ScottK> maco: Modulo it takes manual updates to keep things correct when stuff gets promoted, yes.
<james78> I hope that's enough. ;)
<beuno> james78, so, I hate to do this again, but I think we'd like to see a little bit more involvement in the community, get some endorsements from existing ubuntu members
<beuno> get more integrated into the existing channels
<james78> Alright.
<maco> if you find a way to have an in-person event, photos are a valid replacement for a testimonial about it
<beuno> you seem to be helping out a huge amount in the forums, there will soon be ubuntu memberships given our for participating in the forums, maybe that's a good place to focus on?
<pleia2> thanks for all your hard work james78 :)
<james78> beuno: My main area of what I do is tech support actually, mostly via the forums. :)
<ScottK> james78: If you want to get involved in fixing Python stuff, you can ping me on #ubuntu-motu.
<beuno> artfwo, you reay?
<artfwo> yes.
<pleia2> [TOPIC] artfwo Membership
<MootBot> New Topic:  artfwo Membership
<beuno> james78, yeah, super valuable. I don't want you to get discouraged by this  :)
<artfwo> Thanks. My real name is Artem (pronounced Artyom), I'm from Russia. I am a long-time user of open-source hardware and software, and I started contributing to Ubuntu since Dapper mainly through the Russian translation team.
<artfwo> Occasionally, I've fixed bugs and worked on MOTU tasks. I've also been involved in local activism.
<artfwo> I tried to collect all of my activities on my wiki page: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArtemPopov/Activity It's all documented there and I have little to add to it.
<nhandler> artfwo: I see a number of Natty uploads. Any plans to apply to work towards upload privileges?
<persia> I'd like to support artfwo.  His intermittent, but sustained work with the development teams has consistently improved the experience for some users who would otherwise be poorly served.
<beuno> artfwo, you have an impressive track record!
<pleia2> wow, you do work all over the place :)
<artfwo> nhandler: yes, in the future. I don't feel like I'm experienced enough for MOTU yet.
<nhandler> Ah, I just saw the goals section on your other wiki page
<greg-g> persia: thanks for that
<nhandler> persia: Thank you
<artfwo> persia: thanks!
<maco> thanks persia
<persia> artfwo, After this many years, it's just nice to see you finally applying for membership :)
<beuno> ooooh, support from persia!   can't get better than that
<artfwo> beuno: I'm feeling the same
<greg-g> :)
<nhandler> I also like the translation work you've done
<greg-g> ditto, I'm impressed with the record here. Even if persia called it intermittent.
<pleia2> [VOTE] artfwo Membership
<MootBot> Please vote on:  artfwo Membership.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<pleia2> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from pleia2. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<beuno> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from beuno. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<greg-g> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from greg-g. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<nhandler> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from nhandler. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<maco> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from maco. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 5
<pleia2> [endvote]
<MootBot> Final result is 5 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 5
<greg-g> congrats and welcome, artfwo !
<pleia2> congratulations and welcome artfwo!
<beuno> \o/ artfwo
<maco> artfwo: just a quick thing, as far as your theme for gedit, if you want it in natty raise it quickly because feature freeze is next week
<artfwo> maco: yup, I remember that
<artfwo> thank you!
<pleia2> looks like geeknik, matthewrohaly and DBO still aren't around, so I think we'll wrap this up
<beuno> yeah
<pleia2> thanks everyone :)
<beuno> gives me time to go get ice cream
<pleia2> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 19:31.
<nhandler> artfwo: Also, be sure to add your blog to the planet
<beuno> did I say that out load?
<nhandler> beuno: :)
<greg-g> thanks everyone!
<nhandler> Great meeting
 * beuno waves
<artfwo> did anyone even scrolled down to the pics of our release parties? :)
<pleia2> yep, and those great little ubuntu buttons!
<artfwo> I though that'd be important too
<pleia2> oh yes, we love pictures
<beuno> loves them
 * marjo waves
<apw> o/
 * joshuahoover waves
<ev> o/ (standing in for cjwatson)
<seb128> hey
 * jdstrand waves
 * charlie-tca observing
 * skaet_ waves
<skaet_> hi all,  looks like quorum, so lets start.
<njpatel> hey
<njpatel> standing in for dbarth
<skaet_> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 10:01. The chair is skaet_.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<skaet_> Reminder:   please use ".." on separate line when you've finished typing.    If someone wants to comment on the last point, please "o/", so we know to wait.
<skaet_> Agenda is at: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseTeam/Meeting/2011-02-18
<skaet_> Milestoned bugs for alpha3 can be found https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.milestone=33573.
<skaet_> Just a reminder to everyone that Feature Freeze is next Thursday.
<skaet_> Anyone have any updates to the open action items before I go into the round table?
<skaet_> ..
<skaet_> [Topic] QA team update - marjo
<MootBot> New Topic:  QA team update - marjo
<marjo> hi folks
<marjo>  * Natty Alpha 3 Work Items
<marjo>  http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/canonical-platform-qa-natty-alpha-3.html
<marjo>  https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/ubuntutheproject-qa-n-bugsquad-roadmap
<marjo>  100% complete.
<marjo>  Other blueprints, not started yet.
<marjo>  QA Dashboard
<marjo>  http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/qadashboard/qadashboard.html
<marjo> Note linux, ubiquity, evolution and update-manager are all in both the "Last Day" and "Last 7 Days" metrics.
<marjo>  * Testing status:
<marjo>  Desktop Automated Testing results
<marjo> http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/desktop-testing/natty/
<marjo> List of bugs found is at the bottom of page.
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/desktop-testing/natty/
<marjo>  Server Automated Testing results
<marjo>  http://204.236.234.12/view/ISO-server-Natty/?
<marjo>  3 failures under investigation by hggdh.
<marjo>   Automatic Upgrade Testing
<marjo>   http://people.canonical.com/~mvo/automatic-upgrade-testing/current/
<marjo> per mvo, the post-upgrade-test failure is https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/sudo/+bug/690873 and the main-all bug is https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/openoffice.org/+bug/715075
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 690873 in sudo (Ubuntu Natty) "latest natty sudo upgrade prompts for conffile update and potentially removes %admin from /etc/sudoers" [High,Triaged]
<marjo> ..
<skaet_> thanks marjo.     questions?
<skaet_> [Topic] Hardware Certification team update - victorp
<MootBot> New Topic:  Hardware Certification team update - victorp
 * skaet_ looks around for victorp?
<skaet_> ok,  will move on
<skaet_> [Topic] Security team update - jdstrand
<MootBot> New Topic:  Security team update - jdstrand
<jdstrand> hi!
<jdstrand> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/ReleaseStatus/Natty
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/ReleaseStatus/Natty
<jdstrand> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/canonical-security.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/canonical-security.html
<jdstrand> For the most part, this last week we have been very busy focusing on stable release updates and have also been fixing security issues in natty.
<jdstrand> We did add a new member to our team: micahg. He will be handling browser related items in the stable releases (eg, webkit, mozilla, chromium) as well as helping prepare the dev release to make it easier to maintain. Welcome micahg!
<jdstrand> We have no remaining milestoned features or bugs for alpha-3. bug #718208 is being worked on and sponsored by the security team. I may have time to look at bug #702774 this coming week.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 718208 in openssl (Ubuntu Natty) "CVE-2011-0014" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/718208
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 702774 in apparmor (Ubuntu) "Update of AppArmor disables libvirtd dynamic profiles" [Undecided,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/702774
<jdstrand> For feature freeze, we plan to upload the apparmor 2.6 rc userspace early next week. We already have a pre-release version in natty, so are not expecting any issues.
<jdstrand> We added a couple more bugs to our list of interesting bugs (to us) from other teams: bug #663294 and bug #716703.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 663294 in gcc-4.5 (Ubuntu Natty) "Firefox built with gcc-4.5 is a non-starter on i386 with -pie" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/663294
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 716703 in chromium-browser (Ubuntu Natty) "chromium-browser not built PIE on ARM" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/716703
<jdstrand> As a personal note, I can say that unity/compiz has been much more stable for me lately. thanks!
<jdstrand> ..
<skaet_> thanks jdstrand
<skaet_> welcome micahg!  :)
<skaet_> I'm experimenting with ways of denoting the bugs of interest to the security team in the agenda summaries, so may ping you off line about that.
<jdstrand> skaet_: ack
<skaet_> any questions?
<skaet_> [Topic] Kernel team update - apw
<MootBot> New Topic:  Kernel team update - apw
<apw> Overall status is reported at the first link below.  Burn down for the release milestone is at the second link below.  Burndown for the cycle is at the third link:
<apw> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Natty
<apw> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/canonical-kernel-team-natty-alpha-3.html
<apw> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/canonical-kernel-team.svg
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Natty
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/canonical-kernel-team-natty-alpha-3.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/canonical-kernel-team.svg
<apw> We are a bit above the line on the burn-down but that is mostly an artifact of there being so very few specific items for our team.  The natty kernel is now at v2.6.38-4.31 (v2.6.38-rc5 based).  We are expecting v2.6.38-rc6 to release imminently and we plan on uploading as soon as that is available.  Overall we have most of our development out of the way, with just the ecryptfs long filename work ongoing, we are now tracking mainline and fielding issu
<apw> es as they appear.  It looks like the v2.6.38 final will drop arround A3 so we should have a good period of stabalisation before final release.
<apw> Of the bugs called out on the agenda against the kernel, status is as below:
<apw> #344878 ecryptfs long filename prototype continues to evolve with a second push going to upstream, the on-disk format is not yet agreed and this is highly unlikely to be resolved in time;
<apw> #539467 SATA alpm is now disabled in userspace, upstream discussions are ongoing;
<apw> #542660, still present, needs pushing upstream;
<apw> #600453 and #681877 (all black screen issues) a fix for this issue has been identified and pulled into the Natty kernel and will hit in the next upload;
<apw> #630748 remains waiting on Intel for updated wireless firmware;
<apw> #636091 is looking like a locking issue in USB, possibly to do with the BKL, investigation continues; and
<apw> #702090 looks to be an interaction with vesafb, upstream are saying "don't do that".
<apw> The other bugs seem to be non-kernel packages, status is recorded on our status page where available (first link above).
<apw> ..
<skaet_> Thanks apw.  good news about 2.6.38 and a nice stable sabilisation period.
<apw> yeah i was worried but these  -rc's have come out smartish, and things are settling
<apw> and i am pleased to have the black screens on those dells sorted
<skaet_> *\o/*  on that one.   Will work through the bugs a bit, and get with you offine.  thanks for the details.  :)
<skaet_> any questions?
<skaet_> [Topic] Foundations team update - ev
<MootBot> New Topic:  Foundations team update - ev
<ev> http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/natty/canonical-foundations.html - we're below the line \o/
<ev> http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/natty/canonical-foundations-natty-alpha-3.html - we're mostly okay.  I'm not sure the datetime stuff is going to land, but that's really just pushing code around as we already have a working implementation in 10.10.  Somewhat blocked on the nvidia item due to the incompatibility with the new X server (is that still the case?), but will build on 10.10 if need be.
<ev> Team summary: I've been tackling moving the installer session to compiz.  Colin has been working on the bootstrap project, with 10.04.2 work as well.  GRUB on the CDs is likely to be deferred to O.
<ev> Barry has been tackling bugs in python, computer-janor, wubi, and a few others.  Surbhi is debugging mountall/upstart communication. doko brought updates to gcc-4.4, gcc-4.5, and binutils.
<ev> mvo has been hard at work on ratings and reviews, apt & aptdaemon merges, and the automatic upgrade tests.  James finished the upstart visualization branch.
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/natty/canonical-foundations.html - we're below the line \o/
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/natty/canonical-foundations-natty-alpha-3.html - we're mostly okay.  I'm not sure the datetime stuff is going to land, but that's really just pushing code around as we already have a working implementation in 10.10.  Somewhat blocked on the nvidia item due to the incompatibility with the new X server (is that still the case?), but will build on 10.10 if need be.
<ev> (done)
<skaet_> thanks ev.
 * skaet_ still reading
<skaet_> I think that most of the bugs I'm worried about at this point have your name tied to them so will get with you offline for more details.
<skaet_> any questions?
<ev> hah, sure :)
<skaet_> [Topic] Server team update - Daviey
<MootBot> New Topic:  Server team update - Daviey
 * skaet_ looks around for a Daviey ?
<Daviey> hello  o/
<Daviey> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/packageselection-server-n-upstart-server-enhancement
<Daviey> Good progress.  The documentation is coming along and while that is a mountain of TODO's, Clint still expect to get them all done before release.. most of it is wiki/web page work and so isn't subject to most of our freezes.
<skaet_> hoo.. nick of time
<Daviey> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/cloud-server-n-webscale-tech
<Daviey> Making progress.  The mysql and mod_pagespeed tasks may end up getting postponed.
<Daviey> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/packageselection-server-n-drizzle-integration
<Daviey> Recently became more active, and expected to be complete relatively quickly
<Daviey> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/packageselection-server-n-commandline-userfriendly
<Daviey> This is low priority, and is in danger of getting dropped.. pending work load.
<Daviey> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/packageselection-server-n-cluster-stack
<Daviey> Making progress, Resource agent element complete and should be released today.  Eucalyptus parts of the spec might be re-considered, pending discussions with upstream.
<Daviey> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/cloud-server-n-install-service
<Daviey> Recently undergoing more commitment, and therefore expecting to be good progress by next meeting.
<Daviey> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/packageselection-server-n-javaappservers
<Daviey> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/packageselection-server-n-hudson
<Daviey> Good progress.. James has managed to tame Jenkins (formally hudson) \o/.  For natty it will be a semi-supported PPA, landing in O-Series when it opens.
<Daviey>  
<Daviey> Current progress - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/ReleaseStatus/Natty
<Daviey> Can you not hear me?
<Daviey> http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/natty/canonical-server-natty-alpha-3.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/natty/canonical-server-natty-alpha-3.html
 * Daviey suspects there is an issue with his net connection.
 * victorp says hi and sorry to skaet 
<Daviey> Did you see my flood?
<hggdh> Daviey: you are clear here
<apw> Daviey, yep all there
<skaet_> yup Daviey,  got it now - just a bit delayed.
<Daviey> thanks apw
<Daviey> So, the WI trend is looking above the line.. but many of the items are not release related
<Daviey> Docs / Wiki / PPA work etc.
<Daviey> Bug #717166 is one of our importiant release related bugs, and we need upstream help to resolve it
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 717166 in eucalyptus (Ubuntu Natty) "Broken with v4 isc-dhcp-server in Natty" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/717166
<skaet_> thanks Daviey.  assuming you're .. (done)  re: bug,  will mark it blocked then in the status.   if WI's are in the milestone, and are not really key to it, can you move them out earlier rather than later?
<Daviey> skaet_, hmm.. well.. yes.. The thing is the complexity points for the WI are skewing the chart.
<Daviey> They should still be on track to align with A3
<skaet_> Daviey,  ok, lets take it offline, and you can help me understand.
<Daviey> skaet_, okay, thanks
<Daviey> any questions?
<skaet_> any other questions?
<skaet_> lol
<Daviey> :)
<skaet_> [Topic] Ubuntu One Team - joshuahoover
<MootBot> New Topic:  Ubuntu One Team - joshuahoover
<joshuahoover> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOne/NattyReleaseStatus
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOne/NattyReleaseStatus
<joshuahoover> details on where we're at with blueprints and releases are in the link above
<joshuahoover> updates on items at risk:
<joshuahoover> 1) u1 shotwell integration is not happening due to a lack of time on our part and late additions of plugin support...i'll be updating blueprint today to reflect this
<joshuahoover> 2) unity integration (progress indicator) is blocked by libunity bug #709240 - i'll be filing a freeze exception today since we're going to need it once that bug is fixed
<seb128> hum, did desktop just got skipped?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 709240 in libunity "libunity support gobject-introspected languages" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/709240
<joshuahoover> 3) u1 music store in banshee & rbox is completely broke right now...we're looking into it
<joshuahoover> the rest of our new features work for natty is either done or will be released in new packages before next week's freeze
<joshuahoover> and that's about it
<joshuahoover> ..
<skaet_> thanks joshuahoover,  re: shotwell, ack and thanks for doing the update now.
<skaet_> pitti,  oops, my bad.
<seb128> skaet_, no pitti today, he's on holidays
<seb128> but I will tell him ;-)
<skaet_> double ooops.  thanks seb128.  :)
<seb128> ;-)
<skaet_> any questions for joshuahoover?
<skaet_> [Topic] Desktop team update - seb128
<MootBot> New Topic:  Desktop team update - seb128
<seb128> hey
<seb128> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/canonical-desktop-team-natty-alpha-3.html
<seb128> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/canonical-desktop-team.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/canonical-desktop-team-natty-alpha-3.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/canonical-desktop-team.html
<seb128>  
<seb128> Weekly update:
<seb128> * Work items on track for entire cycle a bit behind on alpha3 though a lot is DX integration (which we need to wait on), the quickly ones are blocked on landing additional Launchpad API
<seb128> * libindicator ABI changed and the indicators got rebuilt for the transition, Unity got a new release with quite some bug fixed, systray support is back for limited cases (whitelist)
<seb128> * the feature work has settled down a bit in profit of bug fixing
<seb128>  
<seb128> Bugs:
<seb128> * 681412 Can not enter password for Administrative tasks using Onboard Keyboard (at-spi): Not a regression; asked Luke about some details
<seb128> * 696527 LibreOffice - Human icons theme disabled, patch needs an update: is being work by BjÃ¶rn
<seb128> * 705572 [retracer attaching incomplete backtrace]: broken bug reports apparently had a corrupted stack; synthetically triggering X.org crash doesn't invoke Apport at all; unclear how to improve this at the moment
<seb128> * 710582 webkit crashes on amd64 architecture: Assigned to developer now
<seb128> * 710796 [hibernate no longer works on natty]: not a bug, more an experiment; currently being discussed
<seb128> * 711896 Upgrade to Natty fails to install xserver-xorg-core: mvo says the bug is puzzling, no duplicate and only one user commented on the bug, to watch but not really concerning either
<seb128> * 637827 [Firefox and Thunderbird (XUL) menus dont appear in the menu bar]: Fixed for thunderbird; there is a working implementation for Firefox, rollout is blocked on getting upstream permission
<seb128>  
<seb128> (that's it)
<skaet_> thanks seb128.  any questions?
<mvo> 711896> is a bit dubious as dpkg should deal with that automtically (we pass the right options to it)
<skaet_> mvo, ack.
<mvo> Sarvatt pointed out that it might just be a really odd inconsitent archive, I will followup in the bug
<skaet_> thanks.  :)
<skaet_> [Topic] Kubuntu Team update - Riddell
<MootBot> New Topic:  Kubuntu Team update - Riddell
 * skaet_ looks around for Riddell...
 * skaet_ wonders if he has communication feed issues too?
<skaet_> [Topic] Desktop Experience Team Update - njpatel
<MootBot> New Topic:  Desktop Experience Team Update - njpatel
<njpatel> Hi!
<njpatel> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopExperienceTeam/NattyReleaseStatus
<njpatel> [LINK] https://launchpad.net/unity/+milestone/3.4.6
<njpatel> [LINK] https://launchpad.net/unity/+milestone/3.6
<njpatel> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/natty/canonical-dx-team.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopExperienceTeam/NattyReleaseStatus
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://launchpad.net/unity/+milestone/3.4.6
<njpatel> Unity - in Rick's words: We're coming in hot, but we should be good for A3.
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://launchpad.net/unity/+milestone/3.6
<njpatel> Features wise, there aren't many that are missing, main concern is the panel + launcher a11y landing before A3 so we get testing
<njpatel> Graphics wise, we're kinda stuck on fixing nvidia/fglrx bugs until new drivers come out, but we're going to try and make sure at least Intel and Radeon are good for A3 so we get testers
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/natty/canonical-dx-team.html
<njpatel> Compiz should be a lot better for everyone, but there are still niggles to fix. We might punt them 'till after A3 (non-criticals) so we can add remaining features
<njpatel> Foundations wise, all the indicator work is landing in time, both indicator-sound and -datime are gaining features quickly and should be feature complete for A3 (with bugs to fix, of course!)
<njpatel> dbusmenu has had lots of performance and bug fixing work, as well as a11y work and that should be good for FF
<njpatel> The two Unity buglists I pointed to still need cutting down to mostly features instead of bugs but everyone knows what they need to do for A3
<njpatel> bug update:
<njpatel> 637827 Firefox and Thunderbird (XUL) menus dont appear in the menu bar (firefox): FF done (waiting for ACK from Moz), TB done
<njpatel> 657771 'Keep in launcher' item missing for some applications (unity): A3 targetted
<njpatel> 685682 compiz crashed with SIGSEGV in nux::IOpenGLSurface::UnlockRect: Driver related (passed to AMD) inprogress
<njpatel> 689179 Pressing Alt key does not underline mnemonics: A3 targetted
<njpatel> 692823 compiz crashed with SIGSEGV in nux::BaseTexture::GetDeviceTexture: incomplete
<njpatel> 705347 compiz crashes in add_match_done (dconf)(compiz): fixed (patch in transit)
<njpatel> 662077 WxWidgetsWxWidgets apps don't have menus (appmenu-gtk): fixed upstream, need to sync
<njpatel> 690537 Unity app launcher is filled up with doublettes (unity): fixed
<njpatel> 683065 Menu bar becomes blank periodically: fixed
<skaet_> ..?
<njpatel> I'm assuming no messages came through?
<njpatel> let me try again
<skaet_> no
<njpatel> bug update:
<njpatel> 637827 Firefox and Thunderbird (XUL) menus dont appear in the menu bar (firefox): FF done (waiting for ACK from Moz), TB done
<njpatel> 657771 'Keep in launcher' item missing for some applications (unity): A3 targetted
<njpatel> 685682 compiz crashed with SIGSEGV in nux::IOpenGLSurface::UnlockRect: Driver related (passed to AMD) inprogress
<njpatel> 689179 Pressing Alt key does not underline mnemonics: A3 targetted
<skaet_> they did,  just wasn't sure if you were done.....
<njpatel> ah, sorry
<skaet_> lol
<skaet_> no worries
<njpatel> yeah, not much more to say really :)
<skaet_> thanks njpatel.
<skaet_> there are some bugs that are milestoned to A3, that I don't think will get fixed
<skaet_> can someone take a look at them, and adjust the milestones if that's the case?
<njpatel> yep, that's the plan
<njpatel> we cna also move some actual bugs 'till after FF
<njpatel> and concentrate on the features
 * skaet_ nods
<njpatel> will try and have it done monday morning, just so it's easier to track (team already knows what they need to do)
<skaet_> yup.   for the bugs that wont be able to be handled after FF, please move the milestones.   monday's good.   thanks!
<skaet_> any other questions?
<skaet_> njpatel,  by the way,  very very glad to hear compiz is improving.  :)
<njpatel> heh, as are we ;)
<skaet_> [Topic] ARM team update - ogra
<MootBot> New Topic:  ARM team update - ogra
<ogra> oh, me !
<skaet_> yup.  :)
<ogra> Status is at:
<ogra> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARMTeam/ReleaseStatus/Natty
<ogra> ..
<ogra> Summary:
<ogra>  * 705689 is waiting for a gcc upload, this bug now also affects KDE, QT has a workaround that will be dropped.
<ogra>  * OMAP4 2.6.38 import of the DVI driver patch has started
<ogra>  * SGX GLES driver for natty is available in the TI PPA for OMAP4
<ogra>  * WI work is going well.
<ogra>  * QA work for better bug assignment strategy is still being worked out, tags vs team subscriptions vs team assignment
<ogra>    is being sorted to get some actually meaningful reports using lplib
<ogra>  * Upgrading the bootloaders from cmdline is largely implemented (one WI left)
<ogra>  * Unity-2D is now the default UI on all armel images \o/
<ogra>    upload of final major upstream version will happen during next week before FF
<ogra>  * florence on-screen-keyboard is sitting in revu getting the final touches nefore going into the archive
<ogra> ..
<ogra> Image status:
<ogra>  * Current builds are failing due to nux FTBFS which fails due to some non arch independend casting, bug is being inspected
<ogra> Specs:
<ogra> Entire status: http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/ubuntu-armel.html
<ogra> Milestone: http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/ubuntu-armel-natty-alpha-3.html
<ogra> ..
<ogra> Serious Bugs:
<ogra> bug 705689
<ogra> ..
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 705689 in gcc-4.5 (Ubuntu Natty) "Qt applications crash with segfault error on armel when Qt is built with gcc 4.5 on natty" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/705689
<marjo> ogra: thx for the update on bug assignments work
<ogra> marjo, yes, i think you are in contact with GrueMaster too, arent you ?
<marjo> ogra: ack
<skaet_> thanks ogra.   can you include me in the discussion on the better bug assignments,  I've got some ideas/preferences... ;)
<ogra> skaet_, its all in GrueMasters hands, i'll ask him to set up a meeting
<marjo> ogra: thx
 * skaet_ hoping to get some unification going on, so things get a little saner at the overview.
<skaet_> thanks ogra
<ogra> :)
<skaet_> questions?
<skaet_> [Topic] MOTU team update - ScottK
<MootBot> New Topic:  MOTU team update - ScottK
<ScottK> Hello
<ScottK> Glad to have the python situation resolved.
<ScottK> Nothing new to report.
<ScottK> ..
<skaet_> thanks ScottK.
<skaet_> any questions?
<skaet_> [Topic] Linaro update - JamieBennett
<MootBot> New Topic:  Linaro update - JamieBennett
<JamieBennett> \o
<JamieBennett> So its been a quiet week release wise for Linaro
<JamieBennett> We gained two new hwpacks so two new supported boards
<JamieBennett> we do not have much planned for the archive by FF
<JamieBennett> possibly a new kernel but that will most likely land after FF but it is only used by us
<JamieBennett> ..
<skaet_> thanks JamieBennett.   any FFE's beyond the kernel, expected?
<JamieBennett> skaet_: not on my radar atm, no
<skaet_> ok,  thanks.
<skaet_> any other questions?
<skaet_> [Topic] Hardware Certification team update - take 2 - victorp
<MootBot> New Topic:  Hardware Certification team update - take 2 - victorp
<victorp> hi
<victorp> I am here this time
<skaet_> :)
<victorp> This week we couldn't test the desktops either, as they are being
<victorp> installed in the new Lexington lab. We should be able to test them next
<victorp> week as usual.
<victorp> We helped apw with the testing and he has now committed a fix for it. We
<victorp> will be testing this machine again next week to see if it fixes the issue.
<victorp> There are a couple of systems that are not waking up from sleep:
<victorp> [LINK] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/719474
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/719474
<victorp> [LINK] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/719620
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/719620
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 719474 in linux (Ubuntu) "HP ProBook 6550b - System doesn't resume after suspend" [Undecided,Triaged]
<victorp> The machines are available for any required testing with upstream
<victorp> kernels or patches.
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 719620 in linux (Ubuntu) "Toshiba Tecra A11 - System doesn't resume after suspend" [Undecided,Triaged]
<victorp> ...
<skaet_> thanks victorp,  for those bugs you just quoted,  can you guys fill in the priority for them?
<victorp> skaet_, ack
<skaet_> cool.  thanks.
 * JFo makes a note
<skaet_> lol
<JFo> :)
<victorp> lol
<skaet_> any other questions?
<skaet_> [Topic] any other new business/kudos/comments/questions?
<MootBot> New Topic:  any other new business/kudos/comments/questions?
<skaet_> going once....
<victorp> boot metrics
<victorp> discussion happening today
<victorp> ..
<skaet_> ahh yes,  good topic.
<skaet_> cool.   will summary be produced, or is there something I can join in on?
<victorp> We will send a summary
<victorp> (marjo and me)
<skaet_> excellent.  thanks.  looking forward to it  :)
<skaet_> anything else?
<skaet_> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:57.
<marjo> skaet_ thx!
<skaet_> woot!   under an hour, and nice and efficient.    Thanks everyone!!!
<victorp> skaet_, thanks!
<apw> skaet_, :)
<skaet_> thank you marjo, jdstrand, apw, ev, seb128, Daviey, joshuahoover, njpatel, ogra, ScottK, JamieBennet, victorp !
<ogra> thanks
<ev> thanks
<seb128> thanks
<jdstrand> thanks
<wolfrage> wendar:  I would PM you but empathy does not support "/msg" yet, although I plan on fixing that. Thanks for the consideration. I would be ok with quick review of the apps so long as they can not access my hard drive or are confined to a section of my drive that does not contain my files so not "/home/username/" but something further like ~/.sandbox ... I look forward to the blog article.
<wendar> wolfrage: indeed. flash and the browser use strategies to allow saving "local state" for an app that doesn't require access to any general portion of the user's computer
<wendar> wolfrage: there are other considerations too, like access to memory regions that might be exploited to gain escalated privileges on the user's computer
<wendar> wolfrage: basically, running an app on your computer needs to be as safe as running a web page in your browser
<wendar> wolfrage: notice that there's no access from one browser window to another? that's secure sandboxing
<wendar> wolfrage:  X, btw, is notoriously bad about allowing apps unfettered access to each other's information. That's one of the security advantages of Wayland.
#ubuntu-meeting 2011-02-19
<ScottK> wendar: Given the rate of security uploads for the major browsers, I'd argue safer ...
<livwire> Hello everyone!  This is my first time in this channel and I'm a week old Ubuntu user.  I'm looking forward to joining the sessions that take place in here.
<charlie-tca> livwire: the meeting schedule is at http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar; What I show is no meetings scheduled until Sunday at 13:00 UTC
<livwire> Thank you charlie.  I'll be looking forward to it!
#ubuntu-meeting 2011-02-20
<Chat8754> hala pps
<MrChrisDruif> MEETING!! :D:D:D
<gilir> MrChrisDruif, I'm pinging people to see if there are available
<gilir> if not, I'll cancel the meeting, I don't want to be the only one to talk :)
<MichealH> :)
<highvoltage> which meeting is it, btw?
<MichealH> highvoltage, Lubuntu Meeting
<MrChrisDruif> lubuntu deskto[
<MrChrisDruif> s/[/p
<UndiFineD> o/
<MichealH> gilir, You have.... 4 people :P
<gilir> :)
<MichealH> Take to the stage
<gilir> ok let's start it, at least, I'll make my annoucements :p
<MichealH> :p
<gilir> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 11:08. The chair is gilir.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<gilir> Welcome to the Lubuntu Project Meeting
<hajour> o/
<gilir> You can find the full agenda on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/Meetings/20110220
<gilir> Say hello to appear in the logs ;)
<UndiFineD> hai
<MrChrisDruif> Hai :)
<hajour> hello
<MichealH> o/
<MrChrisDruif> Hai hajour :)
<gilir> [TOPIC] Previous items
<MootBot> New Topic:  Previous items
<gilir> About items we had from the last meeting
<gilir> All seeds modifications done (music player, archiver, webcam)
<gilir> no big change should happen now
<MrChrisDruif> Alright...great going?
<gilir> no complain so far :)
<UndiFineD> :)
<gilir> about the control-center, there are still some problems with pcmanfm as a control center : useless columns and no entry translated for launching the control center
<NRWlion> id like to attend the meeting as guest if possible
<MrChrisDruif> NRWlion:  no problem...
<gilir> So, I'll not add it in the menu until it's fixed
<MrChrisDruif> Can make program suggestions here?
<gilir> any questions about last meetings items ?
<UndiFineD> makes a note to translate lubuntu control center
<MrChrisDruif> did gucviewer or something reviewed?
<MrChrisDruif> gilir: ^
<gilir> MrChrisDruif, I think nobody tested it
<gilir> or I missed the mail about it
<MrChrisDruif> I heard about it 1 or two meetings back...to test a persons webcem with installation,..
<MrChrisDruif> never heard anythign else about it..
<gilir> MrChrisDruif, I'll ask again on the mailing list, just to be sure :)
<gilir> [ACTION] Ask on the mailing list about gucviewer feedbacks
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Ask on the mailing list about gucviewer feedbacks
<MrChrisDruif> Was for livecd, I suddenly remembered...but indeed, ask please :)
<gilir> ok, let's go to the next topic
<gilir> [TOPIC] LightDM testing result
<MootBot> New Topic:  LightDM testing result
<gilir> I tested LightDM last weeks, to evaluate it over LXDM
<gilir> There are still some bugs and work to do to make it a full replacement of LXDM
<MrChrisDruif> gilir: but other than that?
<gilir> I also don't have the time to properly test it and integrate it in Lubuntu
<gilir> MrChrisDruif, it's good :) And I'm sure it will be very nice in the futur :)
<MrChrisDruif> What are the pros and cons of lightdm vs lxdm
<gilir> MrChrisDruif, you should look at the previous meeting, and the mailing for a detail description :)
<MrChrisDruif> Alright, will do that...
<gilir> to be short, lightdm will be better (more features, more devs ...) than LXDM, but it's not finished yet :)
<UndiFineD> more devs is good :)
<gilir> LXDM have the advantage to be already here, and a bit more tested
<MrChrisDruif> gilir: alright, thanks :)
<bioterror> 11.04 with lxdm and 11.10 maybe lightdm?
<gilir> bioterror, yes, it's the current plan
<gilir> and try to make lightdm useable for Lubuntu users for 11.04, to get more testing
<gilir> any questions about this topic ?
<MrChrisDruif> will it get regular update if it's for testing?
<gilir> MrChrisDruif, it's already part of Ubuntu official repository, so yes :)
<MrChrisDruif> Sorry...really need to read meeting logs :P
<gilir> :)
<gilir> [TOPIC] Testing new theme
<MootBot> New Topic:  Testing new theme
<gilir> A new theme from Raphael is available for testing on Lubuntu PPA
<gilir> He would like to have feedbacks about it
<gilir> Also, some tests with GtkPerf should be useful to validate that the new theme is not slower than the current one on 10.10
<gilir> [LINK] https://lists.launchpad.net/lubuntu-desktop/msg03318.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://lists.launchpad.net/lubuntu-desktop/msg03318.html
<gilir> So far, tests are good :) No problem in performance
<MrChrisDruif> Great to hear gilir :)
<gilir> not that it doesn't mean that it will be the next theme for Lubuntu
<MrChrisDruif> I heard once on the irc channel someone had some problems....
<gilir> We have still 1 month to decide
<gilir> MrChrisDruif, do you have more details ?
<MrChrisDruif> Sorry, not precise....running from my own memory atm....but I thought it had something to do with the widgets or something :-/
<MrChrisDruif> But it can be read in the logs...(so if anyone is willing :P)
<gilir> MrChrisDruif, the problem with root windows, like update-manager ?
<MrChrisDruif> gilir: I don't know...(I'm not even running Lubuntu at all)
 * MrChrisDruif hides in the corner of shame
<gilir> Raphael is aware of this, I hope he will find a solution
<gilir> MrChrisDruif, if you remember some details, send a mail to Raphael, he will be happy to help :)
<gilir> any questions about the theme ?
<gilir> [TOPIC] Other items
<MootBot> New Topic:  Other items
<gilir> If you want to discuss other topics :)
<MrChrisDruif> Alright..I got something for ya :P
<MrChrisDruif> Someone asked on the channel if we had a character map thing, like gucharmap in ubuntu...
<MrChrisDruif> So I suggested gucharmap to him....he said it didn't had any dependencies needed...
<MrChrisDruif> We could think about adding it to the default applications list...
<gilir> MrChrisDruif, ok, we need to evaluate it
<MrChrisDruif> I understand :)
<UndiFineD> is it still possible to make the virual desktop bigger than the actual screen size ? that would really help systems with small screens, as certain applications fall out of screensize , like synaptic
<bioterror> gilir, run (alt+f2) seems to come from lxpanel?
<gilir> [ACTION] evaluate gucharmap for inclusion
<MootBot> ACTION received:  evaluate gucharmap for inclusion
<gilir> bioterror, yes
<MrChrisDruif> gilir: Should I put it on the mailing list? Or is mentioning it here enough?
<bioterror> gilir, could it be part of some another app than lxpanel
<gilir> UndiFineD, I don't think it's currently possible :(
<gilir> MrChrisDruif, You can ask on the mailing list yes, to see if people have concern about it
<UndiFineD> it used to be  possible with old X
<MrChrisDruif> bioterror: when I turn of gnome-panels run (alt+f2) is also disabled
<gilir> bioterror, you mean if it could be replaced by something else ?
<bioterror> gilir, if I kill lxpanel, you cant get it back easily ;)
<gilir> UndiFineD, if you find some documentation about it, I can try to make it easier on Lubuntu, but no promise
<UndiFineD> ok
<gilir> bioterror, like gnome-panel ;) it's the same problem
<bioterror> UndiFineD, you cant use virtual "800x600" in xorg.conf?
<gilir> bioterror, but maybe we could evaluate synapse for the futur ;)
<UndiFineD> bioterror: synaptic windows are longer than 600 pc
<UndiFineD> px
<bioterror> gilir, I just noticed that when I was changing calendar settings
<bioterror> UndiFineD, it was example, what you want
<bioterror> what ever youw ant it to be
<UndiFineD> ok, I will have some play :)
<bioterror> I can test, I have xorg.conf
<gilir> ok, anything else for today ?
<gilir> ok , let's close this one, thank everyone for your participation :)
<gilir> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 11:50.
<MrChrisDruif> Your welcome gilir :)
#ubuntu-meeting 2012-02-13
<amithkk> Hey
<amithkk> Andybody here?
<amithkk> *Any
<amithkk> *Anybody
<amithkk> :P
<eQuiNoX__> hey amithkk
<amithkk> does anybody know how to cahnge your @ubuntu.com alias
<amithkk> *change
<eQuiNoX__> i'm not aware of how to do that, but i think the right place to ask that would be #ubuntu
<pleia2> amithkk: change the address it forwards to?
<amithkk> yep
<amithkk> Oh, I got the naswer
<pleia2> amithkk: it'll forward to your "preferred contact address" in launchpad
 * amithkk http://askubuntu.com/a/103790/17722
<pleia2> it'll take a few days to update though
<pleia2> there you go
<amithkk> pleia2: Why dont you hang out at AU :D
<pleia2> I'm not in AU :)
<amithkk> \o/ We have a great community :D
<pleia2> it's midnight here in california, I fear I sleep during most of your awake time!
 * pleia2 should get to sleep
<amithkk> lol
<amithkk> Its 13:24 or 1:24PM here
<pleia2> yeah, still yesterday here ;)
<amithkk> Why isnt the earth falt :P
<amithkk> *flat
<tumbleweed> !dmb-ping
<ubottu> bdrung, cody-somerville, persia, Laney, micahg, geser, tumbleweed, stgraber: DMB ping
<micahg> o/
<Laney> hello
<tumbleweed> hrm, we retired persia, we should remove him from that
<tumbleweed> anyway, the'll be other modifications soon...
<MrChrisDruif> DMB ping?
<tumbleweed> MrChrisDruif: developer membership board meeting starting as soon as we are quorate
 * stgraber waves
<MrChrisDruif> Ah, good luck with that tumbleweed (and the rest ofc)
<Myrtti> I can change the factoid to what it should be
<Myrtti> just remove per s ia, or replace with something else?
<tumbleweed> Myrtti: just remove. But there'll be another modification real soon
<tumbleweed> well, that's 4 of us, I guess we should start
<Myrtti> that's not a problem
<tumbleweed> #startmeeting Developer Memberhsip Board
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Feb 13 14:07:46 2012 UTC.  The chair is tumbleweed. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Developer Memberhsip Board Meeting | Current topic:
<tumbleweed> Agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperMembershipBoard/Agenda
<tumbleweed> #topic Review of previous action items
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Developer Memberhsip Board Meeting | Current topic:  Review of previous action items
<tumbleweed> #subtopic cody-somerville to write some documentation on how to endorse someone
<tumbleweed> I guess we are carrying this forward again?
 * stgraber is quickly writing a testimonials for cyphermox ... bad /me ;)
<stgraber> tumbleweed: yeah, just keep that one on the list
<tumbleweed> righto
<tumbleweed> #subtopic micahg to E-Mail TB to extend Laney's term 1yr
<tumbleweed> IIRC that's all done
<micahg> yep
<tumbleweed> #subtopic tumbleweed to run the election to fill geser's seat
<tumbleweed> well, that's pretty much finished
<tumbleweed> the question is do we cheat and end it 8 hours early?
 * tumbleweed should have announced the end date as being last night
<Laney> when does geser's term end?
<tumbleweed> today
<Laney> then aye aye
<tumbleweed> sorry, it already has
<tumbleweed> in that case, here goes
<tumbleweed> #link http://www.cs.cornell.edu/w8/~andru/cgi-perl/civs/results.pl?id=E_ffe5b07a14f4161e
<tumbleweed> the new DMB member is barry
<tumbleweed> #subtopic tumbleweed to send mail requesting nominations for the open DMB seat
<tumbleweed> obviously done
<tumbleweed> #topic cyphermox's core-dev application
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Developer Memberhsip Board Meeting | Current topic:  cyphermox's core-dev application
<cyphermox> good morning.
<stgraber> hey cyphermox
<stgraber> DMB: If you loaded cyphermox's wiki page before the meeting, please refresh ;)
 * tumbleweed just realises he was reviewing the action items from two meetings ago. stgraber: you owe us minutes
 * tumbleweed thought something was fishy
<stgraber> tumbleweed: yeah, I know I've not finished the paperwork. The Agenda is correct though (including the list of action items)
<tumbleweed> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MathieuTrudel/CoreDevApplication
<tumbleweed> DMB: please pepper cyphermox with questions (assuming you have any)
<stgraber> cyphermox: when is Feature Freeze (exact time please)?
<cyphermox> stgraber: what I understood was midnight UTC, start of Thursday 16th, unless there was a different time announced?
<stgraber> there was a different time announced, though at least what you said won't make you upload past FF :)
<stgraber> 16:03 < skaet> Feature Freeze is at 2100 UTC
<tumbleweed> freezes are usually at 2100 UTC
<cyphermox> ah
<micahg> that's documented: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PrecisePangolin/ReleaseSchedule?action=show&redirect=PreciseReleaseSchedule
<tumbleweed> cyphermox: you are, of course, subscribed to ubuntu-devel-announce?
<cyphermox> I am
<micahg> cyphermox: as a core dev, when would you not sponsor an upload?
<cyphermox> micahg: I tend to only sponsor uploads when I have a strong knowledge of the package and code in that software, unless the changes are pretty obviously safe. I can't think of a better answer to give you right now.
<micahg> cyphermox: ok, what about factors besides your knowledge that might cause you not to sponsor something
<micahg> (which are good reasons in general, but over time you want to push that envelope)
<tumbleweed> core-dev is a general upload right to the entire archive, one can't have strong knowledge of every package
<cyphermox> micahg: when the sponsored upload might clash with an ongoing transition ?
<micahg> cyphermox: there's not only one answer here, but that's one, anything else?
<cyphermox> micahg: for my edification, could you elaborate? I may have got stuck on that "factors beside your knowledge" part
<micahg> well, what other criteria would you look at besides the quality of a diff to determine whether or not to sponsor an upload
<cyphermox> ah
<cyphermox> I don't have a better answer than the one I gave you
<stgraber> cyphermox: what do you consider "pretty obviously safe"?
<cyphermox> stgraber: a small change to packaging for a missing file to be installed, minimal code changes for safety checks, etc.
<cyphermox> it of course depends of the actual change being done, but that's examples
<stgraber> ok
<stgraber> now let's say you're asked to sponsor a sync from Debian for a package in main, what would you check?
<cyphermox> are there changes from the package in Ubuntu we might want to keep; any thinks likely to fail to build or work as a result of the the new package.  that would most likely involve checking with the last person who touched the package first
<stgraber> good. Anything to be careful about regarding the resulting binary packages when we're talking about packages in main?
<cyphermox> new dependencies that might need to be in main as well
<stgraber> exactly :)
<tumbleweed> or that can be safely avoided in ubuntu by turning off features
<cyphermox> on account of wpasupplicant experience I would also say where the libraries end up on the filesystem
<micahg> cyphermox: is there a way to check if an upload might affect other packages besides the one you're uploading?
<cyphermox> yes. checking reverse-depends or reverse build-depends; I've also hacked the transitions tracker before to make myself a page for libnl3.
<tumbleweed> cyphermox: on a slightly different tangent I know users would love to see more usb-modeswitch* backports for hardware-enablement. Do you think that's possible?
<cyphermox> backports, certainly, though not really SRUs
<cyphermox> I think it could be done though to just SRU the usb-modeswitch-data package with micro-exceptions such as we do for mobile-broadband-provider-info since it's just data
<cyphermox> in the cases where it works with the version of usb-modeswitch available
<tumbleweed> if the formats stay the same, that'd probably be nice to have
<Laney> (answer when you're finished) Do you think spending some time on +1maint gave you valuable experience? What did you learn there and would you encourage others to seek to spend some time with the team?
<tumbleweed> (and then we need to finish up and go to a vote, we have 5 mins remaining)
<cyphermox> Laney: it's great exposure to a large variety of different problems. I feel it gave me some experience, although I'm generally unhappy with my "performance" there, I don't feel like I've been able to fix that many things
<tumbleweed> was that partially because you weren't a core-dev?
<tumbleweed> err mainly
<cyphermox> maybe, but that could have been worked around by sponsoring
<Laney> Was there enough support from your fellow team members?
<cyphermox> some of the issues were much outside my comprehension
<Laney> or did you miss some 'training' or a way to find issues to work on?
<Laney> find/select
<cyphermox> yes, there was, though I was trying hard to get things done by myself to learn "better"
<cyphermox> Laney: I don't think so, maybe that was missing "experience", and some fixes just take time, I was trying to get them though debian first (re: asciidoc IIRC)
<cyphermox> but you can't get the experience chasing these kinds of errors without being exposed to them before
<cyphermox> fixing builds that were requiring network access was quite interesting; so was fixing things due to the kernel we use for buildds
<Laney> sure, so maybe you'd have a better experience next time aroudn
<cyphermox> Laney: yes, my second run was already better
<tumbleweed> are we done with questions, can we go to a vote? (I don't see anything sheduled for the next slot, but no need to drag on for another hour :P )
 * stgraber is ready
<cyphermox> please, don't drag on for another hour :)
<stgraber> (as much as I'd enjoy questioning cyphermox for another hour ;))
<tumbleweed> #vote Should cyphermox become a core-dev
<meetingology> Please vote on: Should cyphermox become a core-dev
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<stgraber> +1
<tumbleweed> +1 [ I don't see an enormous amount of activity outside your main area of interest, but there is some, and that shouldn't be a blocker. There are a fair number of good endorsements ]
 * stgraber pokes meetingology
<Laney> +1
<micahg> +1, good packaging work, would like to see more work outside of area of expertise, but libnl3 transition was a good start
<tumbleweed> that appears to be everyone who is here today
<tumbleweed> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: Should cyphermox become a core-dev
<meetingology> Votes for:0 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Deadlock, casting vote may be used
<tumbleweed> err any ideas?
<Laney> ignore
<tumbleweed> #action tumbleweed to add cyphermox to core-dev after the meeting
<meetingology> ACTION: tumbleweed to add cyphermox to core-dev after the meeting
<tumbleweed> cyphermox: congrats
<cyphermox> thanks
<tumbleweed> #topic AOB?
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Developer Memberhsip Board Meeting | Current topic:  AOB?
<sagaci> cyphermox: good work
<tumbleweed> next chair?
<micahg> cyphermox: sorry, I spaced on the +1 stuff you did, you already did quite a bit outside your area of expertise :)
<tumbleweed> do we need to poke tech-board to add barry?
<micahg> tumbleweed: we need to confirm the nomination
<tumbleweed> micahg: oh, probably I wasn't looking hard enough :)
<tumbleweed> in that case
<tumbleweed> #vote add barry to the DMB to take geser's seat
<meetingology> Please vote on: add barry to the DMB to take geser's seat
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<tumbleweed> +1
<stgraber> +1
<Laney> +1
<tumbleweed> micahg: ?
<stgraber> AlanBell: your bot is broken :) (not sure if it's actually yours but I remember you playing with it a bit)
<AlanBell> hi stgraber
<micahg> +1
<tumbleweed> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: add barry to the DMB to take geser's seat
<meetingology> Votes for:0 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Deadlock, casting vote may be used
<tumbleweed> ignoring meetingology: motion carried
<AlanBell> ooh sorry about that
<tumbleweed> next chair?
<stgraber> do we need TB confirmation for the new DMB member or we just need TB to add him and announce?
<stgraber> if it's the later, just give me the action
<tumbleweed> Laney: you were the last person to do this
<tumbleweed> going from last time, this is pretty easy
<tumbleweed> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2011-September/001080.html
<tumbleweed> #action stgraber to get barry added to the DMB
<meetingology> ACTION: stgraber to get barry added to the DMB
<stgraber> ok, doing that post-meeting (with the minutes from our previous meeting ...)
<tumbleweed> next chair:
<tumbleweed> presumably bdrung (going from the top
<tumbleweed> no objections, done
<tumbleweed> #endmeeeting
<AlanBell> tumbleweed: can you say "#voters"
<tumbleweed> AlanBell: oh, duh, sorry. My first meetingology meeting
<AlanBell> tumbleweed: thats fine, I can't see what went wrong
<micahg> oh wait, before we end
<micahg> or is it too late now?
<tumbleweed> the bot doesn't seem to have noticed that we finished :P
<AlanBell> #voters
<meetingology> Current voters:
<AlanBell> mind a quick test vote?
<AlanBell> #vote a quick motion to test the bot
<meetingology> Please vote on: a quick motion to test the bot
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<micahg> AlanBell: are we still in the DMB meeting from meetingology's point of view?
<AlanBell> +1
<AlanBell> micahg: I am not sure
<sagaci> +0
<micahg> +1
<AlanBell> #endmeeting
<meetingology> Voting ended on: a quick motion to test the bot
<meetingology> Votes for:0 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Deadlock, casting vote may be used
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
 * micahg wanted a comment on the record, but fears it's too late
<tumbleweed> micahg: I haven't written the minutes yet
<stgraber> micahg: well, it looks like we don't really have records ;)
<AlanBell> #startmeeting test meeting
<meetingology> AlanBell: Error: Can't start another meeting, one is in progress.
<AlanBell> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<AlanBell> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<AlanBell> #startmeeting test meeting
<meetingology> AlanBell: Error: Can't start another meeting, one is in progress.
 * AlanBell will go give the bot a slap
<micahg> last meeting with notes was the release meeting on Friday
<AlanBell> #startmeeting test
<meetingology> AlanBell: Error: Can't start another meeting, one is in progress.
<geser> at least the bot is persistent
<micahg> well, I just wanted to thank geser for his many years of service on the DMB and the MOTU council and wish him well on his future endeavors
<AlanBell> it is working great in the #meetingology test channel, seems to be in a fluster here though
<micahg> tumbleweed: can you include the above in the meeting notes ^^
<stgraber> micahg: +1
<micahg> #help
<tumbleweed> micahg: sure :)
<micahg> #endendmeeting
<AlanBell> it is getting exceptions when writing logfiles
<AlanBell> tumbleweed: sorry, looks like no meetingology logs, it can't write to the directory it stores them in for this channel, reallly odd
<tumbleweed> np
<AlanBell> I can't even touch a file in there, I get touch: setting times of `foo': No such file or directory
<AlanBell> lets remove that directory and try again
<AlanBell> #startmeeting test
<meetingology> AlanBell: Error: Can't start another meeting, one is in progress.
<AlanBell> #endmeeting
<AlanBell> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Feb 13 15:36:25 2012 UTC.  The chair is AlanBell. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<AlanBell> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<AlanBell> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Feb 13 15:38:09 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-02-13-15.36.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-02-13-15.36.html
<AlanBell> better
<AlanBell> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Feb 13 15:38:25 2012 UTC.  The chair is AlanBell. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<AlanBell> #vote is there a problem with the filesystem on the server?
<meetingology> Please vote on: is there a problem with the filesystem on the server?
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<AlanBell> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from AlanBell
<AlanBell> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: is there a problem with the filesystem on the server?
<meetingology> Votes for:1 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<AlanBell> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Feb 13 15:38:54 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-02-13-15.38.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-02-13-15.38.html
<AlanBell> yay
<AlanBell> but it isn't totally happy
<roadmr> hi all!
<ara> hello!
<jedimike> hi
<roadmr> ok it's 16:00 UTC so let's get this show on the road
 * roadmr was going to say 11:00 - how EST-centered of me :(
<roadmr> #startmeeting Ubuntu Friendly meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Feb 13 16:00:48 2012 UTC.  The chair is roadmr. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu Friendly meeting Meeting | Current topic:
<roadmr> Hi everyone, welcome to the Ubuntu Friendly meeting!
<roadmr> Today we have the following topics to talk about:
<roadmr> * Checkbox 0.13.1 - call for testing (roadmr)
<roadmr> * Submitting test results anonymously (cr3)
<roadmr> * Any Other Business
<roadmr> As usual, you're welcome to participate, to do so, indicate you want to speak by raising your hand (o/). Don't forget to also signal when you're done using ..
<cr3> o/
<roadmr> hey cr3!
<cr3> hello everyone!
<cr3> ..
<roadmr> Let's get started with the agenda!
<roadmr> [TOPIC] Checkbox 0.13.1 - call for testing (roadmr)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu Friendly meeting Meeting | Current topic:  Checkbox 0.13.1 - call for testing (roadmr)
<roadmr> Checkbox version 0.13.1 was just accepted in Ubuntu, with lots of fixes and new goodies.
<roadmr> We'd like to ask for everyone's help in running it and reporting any bugs you may find (by running ubuntu-bug checkbox, for instance).
<roadmr> This will allow us to start focusing on fixing those bugs in time for the 12.04 release.
<roadmr> Installing it should be as simple as applying available updates in your Ubuntu Precise installation.
<roadmr> That's all on this topic, as it was basically just an announcement :) Any questions or comments?
<roadmr> nothing? :) Let's move on then...
<roadmr> * [TOPIC] Submitting test results anonymously (cr3)
<roadmr> [TOPIC] Submitting test results anonymously (cr3)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu Friendly meeting Meeting | Current topic:  Submitting test results anonymously (cr3)
<roadmr> cr3, go ahead!
<cr3> The new checkbox-qt interface provides a button to submit test results and hardware information anonymously.
<cr3> The problem is that Launchpad does not like anonymous information on the basis that information not linked to anyone is useless.
<cr3> We could workaround this problem by providing a dummy email address when users click on the button to submit anonymously.
<cr3> Or, we can remove the button to submit anonymously. Note that the interface prompts for an email address which doesn't need to exist in Launchpad.
<cr3> If a user eventually creates an account in Launchpad with the same address, the submissions will be linked to the new user retroactively.
<cr3> So, should we vote on removing the button to submit anonymously?
<mlegris> +1 -> yes
<roadmr> sounds OK to me, anyone want to comment anything before we vote?
<roadmr> let's go then
<roadmr> #vote remove the "submit anonymously" button from Checkbox? (+1 means "yes, remove it")
<meetingology> Please vote on: remove the "submit anonymously" button from Checkbox? (+1 means "yes, remove it")
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<cr3> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from cr3
<jedimike> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from jedimike
<bladernr_> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from bladernr_
<mlegris> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from mlegris
<roadmr> +1 but we need to let the user know that any email address can be specified, to avoid "oh, do I have to create a launchpad account?" questions
<meetingology> +1 but we need to let the user know that any email address can be specified, to avoid "oh, do I have to create a launchpad account?" questions received from roadmr
<cr3> roadmr: +1, but I don't think we need to vote on that :)
<ara> -1
<meetingology> -1 received from ara
<ara> I think it is better to use a dummy email
<cr3> ara: people could provide a dummy address themselves if they really want, but at least it wouldn't make bad behavior as common
<ara> but it would make the UI messy
<cr3> ara: we're removing a button, how's that messy?
<ara> what will be the label for the email text box
<ara> currently is Launchpad ID email
<ara> (or something along the lines)
<roadmr> cr3: but will the text that explains that even a non-launchpad email address be briefer than the button?
<roadmr> cr3: people aren't too good at those "implicit" behaviors, so we *need* to spell it out
<cr3> ara: whether we have the anonymous button or not, I think the email input field will need the same text
<roadmr> that's a good point
<ara> I don't think so
<cr3> ara: please explain, I'm not sure I follow
<ara> Right now you can:
<ara> * Submit anonymously
<ara> * Submit with your Launchpad email
<ara> that implies that you need a Luanchpad account to submit with the email text box
<ara> if we remove the submit anonymously
<ara> we will need to remove the Launchpad all together, to avoid confusion
<ara> Launchpad label, I mean
<ara> or add a too lengthy explanation about the eamil
<cr3> * Submit with your email, optional
<cr3> so, if you click on submit without anything, it submits anyways?
<cr3> in other words, remove the big red button to encourage bad behavior and still support your use case?
<ara> I will need to see a mock up to get the idea
<cr3> ara: I'm thinking the same as it was which we now works with Launchpad requirements
<cr3> s/now/know/
<ara> I don't see why submitting anonymously should be consider "bad behaviour"
<ara> but I will be happy to see other mock ups
<cr3> ara: if it weren't bad behavior, why should we prompt for an email address at all?
<roadmr> so maybe this feature needs a bit more thinking?
<roadmr> let me close the vote, I think despite the clear majority this still merits some discussing
<roadmr> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: remove the "submit anonymously" button from Checkbox? (+1 means "yes, remove it")
<meetingology> Votes for:5 Votes against:1 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<roadmr> ignore meetingology :)
<cr3> roadmr: agreed, but we might not have that luxury. I'd say try to propose a way to submit both anonymously and with an email address with as little confusion as possible, or fallback to the previous behavior in time for FF
<cr3> ara: ^^^ how does that sound to you?
<roadmr> checkbox-deluxe
<cr3> roadmr: if we name it checkbox-++, does one minus cancel one plus?
<roadmr> cr3: yes I guess
<cr3> checkbox+, just like google+, we'd be trendy!
<roadmr> ok so 1- user has a launchpad account and wants to submit with his email address
<roadmr> 2- user has NO launchpad account and wants to submit with his email address
<cr3> roadmr: it seems that we dispensed with the whole raising hand practice
<roadmr> 3- user wants to submit but not give his email address
<roadmr> 4- user doesn't want to submit at all
<cr3> roadmr: +1
<roadmr> so coming up with a UI that makes all those cases easy, with as little implicit behavior as possible (i.e. no "if you leave the email address blank and click "submit" we will make up an address and submit anonymously")
<roadmr> ..
<cr3> roadmr: should that be an action item?
<roadmr> cr3: ideally, but it has to be a quick action as FF is in a couple of days
<roadmr> [ACTION] Propose a way to handle the four use cases (see above) - preferrably with a mockup, maybe send to UF mailing list
<meetingology> ACTION: Propose a way to handle the four use cases (see above) - preferrably with a mockup, maybe send to UF mailing list
<roadmr> [ACTION] Decision made based on clearness and ease of implementation (due to time constraints)
<meetingology> ACTION: Decision made based on clearness and ease of implementation (due to time constraints)
<roadmr> sounds about right? I didn't put anyone in particular since at this point we'd be looking at any proposals that come in
<roadmr> OK anything else on this topic? ara, are you OK with this course of action?
<cr3> roadmr: sounds right to me
<ara> roadmr, yes
<ara> (I am OK)
<ara> roadmr, who are the owners of the action items?
<roadmr> ara: since it's about making proposals, I guess anyone who has an idea :)
<cr3> roadmr: I should take it since I opened the can
<roadmr> ok thanks!
<roadmr> ok then let's continue with this
<roadmr> Next on the agenda... the beloved...
<roadmr> [TOPIC] Any Other Business
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu Friendly meeting Meeting | Current topic:  Any Other Business
<roadmr> Got anything Ubuntu Friendly-related you'd like to discuss or bring to the team's attention? now's your chance!
<roadmr> any takers? :)
<roadmr> ok then...
<roadmr> Well I guess this wraps things up for today. Thanks for attending! Remember the mailing list is open to all your UF-related comments and inquiries.
<roadmr> Thanks! have a good day!
<roadmr> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Feb 13 16:38:55 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-02-13-16.00.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-02-13-16.00.html
<roadmr> I'll have the minutes up in a minute :)
<roadmr> thanks everyone!
<cr3> roadmr: thanks dude!
<jdstrand> hi!
<mdeslaur> \o
<jdstrand> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Feb 13 18:00:49 2012 UTC.  The chair is jdstrand. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<jdstrand> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Announcements
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Announcements
<jdstrand> FeatureFreeze is this week (February 16th). Please try to finish any non-bugfix work items that are tied to the release by this date. Please talk to mdeslaur (and optionally me) soon if there are issues meeting this deadline. This is particularly true for essential and high priority items.
<jdstrand> Thanks to the following people:
<jdstrand> Imre Gergely (cemc) provided debdiffs for hardy-precise for pdns (LP: #918588)
<jdstrand> Zubin Mithra (zubin-mithra) assisted with updating atop in lucid and maverick (LP: #820497)
<jdstrand> Your work is very much appreciated and will keep Ubuntu users secure. Great job! :)
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Review of any previous action items
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Review of any previous action items
<jdstrand> ACTION: sbeattie to follow up on qrt bugs from QA team
 * sbeattie facepalms
 * jdstrand keeps action on list
<jdstrand> :)
<sbeattie> thank you.
<sbeattie> :-)
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly stand-up report
<jdstrand> I'll go first
<jdstrand> I'm in the happy place
<jdstrand> last week I had meetings around the partner archive. the issues surrounding it should now be resolved with clear processes
<sbeattie> \o/
<jdstrand> some of this was mentioned briefly on the TB mailing list
<jdstrand> I've got quite a bit of internal follow-ups I am working on
<jdstrand> I'm surely behind again on archive admin stuff (tough time in the cycle with FF looming) and will need to spend some time on that
<jdstrand> got through several MIR audits last week, but there are a lot more
<jdstrand> As mentioned last week, I might ask for help, but not yet
<jdstrand> besides that, I might try to finish a few work items before FF
<jdstrand> we'll see
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: you're next
<mdeslaur> I'm on community this week
<mdeslaur> there's a few community security updates to sponsor
<mdeslaur> and I'm currently working on cvs
<mdeslaur> and will probably steal apache2 from sbeattie if he doesn't object
<mdeslaur> and will further go down the list
<mdeslaur> wednesday, I'll be patch piloting
<sbeattie> mdeslaur: no objections here
<mdeslaur> and, that's about it from me. sbeattie, you're next
<mdeslaur> sbeattie: ok, consider apache2 stolen
<sbeattie> I'm on triage this week
<jdstrand> oh I forgot-- I've got 2 pending updates
<sbeattie> php regression fix just went out the door.
<mdeslaur> sbeattie: my apologies, I didn't triage on friday as I was out
<sbeattie> mdeslaur: no worries
<sbeattie> I've got glibc and an embargoed issue on my plate
<sbeattie> I also need to get back to my apparmor work items
<sbeattie> ... and I think that's it for me.
<sbeattie> micahg is away for a bit, I think, so tyhicks?
<tyhicks> I'm in the happy place this week
<tyhicks> I'm still working on the ruby1.8 update
<tyhicks> I have accumulated a few eCryptfs kernel fixes that I'll need to prepare a pull request for sometime early this week, but that should be quick and smooth
<tyhicks> That's it for me
<tyhicks> jjohansen: you're up
<mdeslaur> tyhicks: cool, glad to have you back on reactive work
<tyhicks> mdeslaur: Glad to be back on it :)
<jdstrand> \o/
<jjohansen> so, its mount rule testing and bug fixing for me, as well as martially all the changes to submit patches and pull requests
<jdstrand> tyhicks: me too. thanks for all your hard work getting ecryptfs into good shape for precise
<jdstrand> jjohansen: nice :)
<sbeattie> jjohansen: what shape are mount rules in>
<jjohansen> errr, s/martially/marshalling/
<jjohansen> sbeattie: well not as good as I would like, but I am boot a kernel to do more testing on now
<jjohansen> sbeattie: I let you know when it blows up on me again
<jjohansen> :/
<sbeattie> jjohansen: okay. Note that I have work items to help write testcases for mount rules.
<jjohansen> really they aren't that bad off, most things are there I am testing with a reduced permission set right now as there is a bad bug in the extended permissions
<jjohansen> sbeattie: yeah you will be getting stuff to play with today
<sbeattie> jjohansen: awesome, thanks!
<jjohansen> sbeattie: they are passing the parser regression tests atm
<jjohansen> not that it couldn't use a lot more
<jjohansen> hrmm, I guess thats it from me, jdstrand back to you
<jdstrand> thanks
<jdstrand> as mentioned micahg is not here today, but he is working on tbird and chromium updates, ff10 bug triage and back to webkit
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Highlighted packages
<jdstrand> The Ubuntu Security team will highlight some community-supported packages that might be good candidates for updating and or triaging. If you would like to help Ubuntu and not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so.
<jdstrand> See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details and if you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-security. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved.
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/sitecopy.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/libspring-2.5-java.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/smbind.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/php-suhosin.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/icecast2.html
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Miscellaneous and Questions
<jdstrand> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
<jdstrand> mdeslaur, sbeattie, tyhicks, jjohansen: thanks!
<jdstrand> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Feb 13 18:20:47 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-02-13-18.00.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-02-13-18.00.html
<jjohansen> thanks jdstrand
<sbeattie> jdstrand: thank you
<mdeslaur> thanks jdstrand
#ubuntu-meeting 2012-02-14
<oscalation> Evening
<head_victim> Evening
<head_victim> Just a quick ping to all the Asia/Oceania Board Members - Destine, persia, ejat, vantrax, elky, takdir, oneleaf, lifeless & amachu
<oscalation> An d myself head_victim
<head_victim> oscalation: you're an applicant though right? I was trying to ping the board members to make sure we have enough people here to hold the meeting.
<head_victim> It would appear not.
<oscalation> oh I see.
<oscalation> Im hoping enough members join to hold the meeting.
<oscalation> yes I am an applicant, not a member yet
<ChrisGagnon-> me too oscalation
<head_victim> We need 4 board members to constitute quorum for the meeting and so far, I'm alone.
<oscalation> can we request assistance from another channel ?
<head_victim> oscalation: I've just requested assistance from other boards, we need actual board members, not just ubuntu members.
<czajkowski> I can help
<czajkowski> head_victim: AlanBell you about ?
<head_victim> czajkowski: you rock
<head_victim> Just looking for another couple.
<head_victim> oscalation & ChrisGagnon- sorry for the hassles.
<oscalation> no worries
<head_victim> We'll keep trying to rustle up people for now but if we haven't got it by about half past it might be a bit fruitless.
<ChrisGagnon-> np head_victim  I'll wait around for 15 more minutes :)
<czajkowski> stgraber: highvoltage ogra_ ?
<AlanBell> hi czajkowski
<czajkowski> ok head_victim we need one more
<czajkowski> AlanBell: A/O is short folks for their board
<head_victim> Yep
<head_victim> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/RegionalBoards/AsiaOceania is the wiki if anyone wants to start reading
<AlanBell> ah, ok, guess IRCC is a membership body so I can stand in
<AlanBell> not looking good is it :(
<head_victim> AlanBell: not really.
<ChrisGagnon-> thanks for trying AlanBell
<ChrisGagnon-> and head_victim
<head_victim> Thanks AlanBell & czajkowski for trying.
<head_victim> Apologies to ChrisGagnon- and oscalation - you are free to apply at other boards if their timing is suitable.
<oscalation> thanks. will this meeting be rescheduled ?
<oscalation> if we hang around is it possible others will show up to have the meeting later today?
<head_victim> oscalation: it's held monthly when we have quorum.
<oscalation> oddly enough I set the A/O wiki page for this meeting and its time.
<head_victim> oscalation: I actually had it set to change it the day after you had.
<head_victim> I'd forgotten to do it when I posted the results of the last meeting.
<oscalation> cool
<sagaci> the Americas meeting is on in a couple of days
<head_victim> sagaci: good poing
<head_victim> oscalation - the other baords are https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/RegionalBoards/Americas & https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/RegionalBoards/EMEA if either of them are suitable times
<ashickur-noor> What about the meeting?
<head_victim> ashickur-noor: we can't have a meeting if enough board members aren't available.
<ashickur-noor> oh
<ashickur-noor> So todays meeting is cancle?
<ashickur-noor> Or you will wait?
<head_victim> Postponed to next month. If applicants prefer to attend other board meetings for EMEA or Americas they can.
<ashickur-noor> OH
<Daviey> o/
<justinlw> howdy
<hallyn> \o
<utlemming> \o
<hallyn> Ursinha running the show today?
<Ursinha> I can do that :)
<arosales> \o
 * Ursinha grabbing the meeting script
<Ursinha> #start-meeting ubuntu-server-team
<Ursinha> hmm
<hallyn> i think just startmeeting
<Ursinha> #startmeeting ubuntu-server-team
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Feb 14 16:03:47 2012 UTC.  The chair is Ursinha. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:
<Ursinha> :)
<Ursinha> thanks hallyn
<Ursinha> [TOPIC] Review ACTION points from previous meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:  Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<jamespage> o/
<zul> hello
<adam_g> \o
<Daviey> hullo
<Ursinha> man, I can't find any
<Ursinha> hehe
<Ursinha> there is none, it seems :)
<Ursinha> moving on
<Ursinha> [TOPIC] Precise Development
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:  Precise Development
 * Ursinha looks at Daviey
<Daviey> Ursinha: want me to drive this?
<Ursinha> Daviey, please, go ahead
<Daviey> Firstly, everyone needs to look at their Work Items (http://status.ubuntu.com)
<Ursinha> (http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ubuntu-server/release-bugs.html)
<Daviey> Any feature which will not be uploaded by this Thursday, needs to be marked defered or discuss a FinalFreeze Exception
<Daviey> Anything shouting out as a concern to anyone?
<hallyn> MIRs?
<Daviey> The MIR's are pretty stacked, that is true.
<hallyn> not entirely under our control...
<hallyn> just take our pick about defer or ffe i guess?
<Daviey> The fact they are raised before FF, carries some benefit.
<Daviey> I'll talk with jdstrand later today, and see what we can do to make progress
<hallyn> clone him
<rbasak> openmpi, still.
<Daviey> hallyn: Use judgement, but discuss with the driver or release team if more appropriate
<hallyn> ok
<Daviey> rbasak: is that going ahead?
<arosales> Daviey: rbasak and jamespage are currently working through issues with OpenMPI 1.5.  I am trying to find out the use case, and how critical it is.
<rbasak> Looking unlikely to make FF.
<Daviey> arosales / rbasak: Did i see a mail that it might be dropped?
<arosales> sorry for the redundancy.
 * Daviey comes back to it
<arosales> Daviey: we are working on delivering, just having to discern the potential impact to other dependent packages.
<Daviey> Okay.. but really - anything of concern should be raised by EoD today to be discussed for defer or raise FFe
<rbasak> Right now I'm fighting all the rdepends at once, but it's looking like perhaps there's a single root cause. If so, I might have a fix pretty soon, but still unlikely to have an upload before FF because of the lag in build testing a sponsor would have to do.
<Daviey> arosales: ok
<arosales> which also hinges on the use case
<Daviey> right
<Daviey> Okay, shall we move on to bug progress?
<Daviey> For those at home: http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ubuntu-server/release-bugs.html
<Daviey> bug 924739
<Daviey>  - Looks like a sucker of a bug for upgrades, and we need to do /something/.. any interest?
<Daviey> https://launchpad.net/bugs/924739
<Daviey> no bug bot
<zul> then we have no bugs? :)
<Daviey> bah
<Daviey> zul: you do, bug https://launchpad.net/bugs/883988 :)
<zul> everything is perfect release now!!
<Daviey>  .. adam_g might have thoughts
<adam_g> Daviey: i took a look last week but made litle progress, unfortunately
<Daviey> adam_g: can you poke jaypipes about it/
<Daviey> ?
<adam_g> Daviey: yeah. i was working on nova's db code yesterday, ill take another look at glance and see if i can propose something as well
<Daviey> https://launchpad.net/bugs/893926 - COntains traces of UEC - euca'.. low priority. Expecting euca to provide some love to the packages.
<hallyn> (curious, bug 904014 doesn't show up on http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ubuntu-server/release-bugs.html)
<Daviey> adam_g: rocking
<Daviey> hallyn: odd, i'll investigate
<Daviey> bug 898373 W fsck.ext3: Device or resource busy while trying to open /dev/xvda2
<Daviey>  - bug for smoser who is not here right now
<Daviey> 911812 W processor fact does not handle arm, others
<Daviey>  - roaksoax / rbasak ?
<rbasak> I offered testing IIRC, but not looked at this otherwise. roaksoax?
<roaksoax> Daviey: i don't have access to my pandaboards yet. Next tuesday I will
<Daviey> okay, great
<Daviey> 914392 W LXC local provider does not respect 'series' (only installs oneiric) W juju
<Daviey> Spam apes ?
<Daviey> Hmm, he is not yet here.
<rbasak> I noticed that this was Fix Released in juju
<rbasak> Waiting on the packaging I guess
<Daviey> rbasak: great! thanks
<Daviey> bug 923681 W Server install fails when selecting everything but 'VM host' & 'Manual selection' from tasksel
<Daviey> zul: ^^ ?
<zul> yeah i need to look at that
<Daviey> bug 850443 W Nova API does not listen on IPv6
<Daviey> i'll look into that
<Daviey> 928383 W python-glance package contains stuff about API and registry W glance
<Daviey> zul: ?
<adam_g> uh
<zul> uh
<adam_g> thats invalid, filed against the upstream ppa
<Daviey> ahh
<Daviey> 928990 W fsck / dirty filesystem on instance is death - cloud-init
<Daviey>  -- smoser bug
<Daviey> bug 929780 W console.ring files should not be world readable
<zul> thats fixed
<Daviey> rbasak:
<Daviey> (nova)
<Daviey> your last comment is still accurate?
<zul> although the console patch is causing problems
<Daviey> zul: i rebased it, still an issue?
<zul> Daviey: ill check this afternoon
<rbasak> I think we need to verify whether the instance directory is secure or not
<Daviey> rbasak: good thinking
<Daviey> 929127 W linux_net.ensure_metadata_ip() fails on precise W nova
<adam_g> rbasak: ping me later today, i can verify
<rbasak> If it is, then I'd say that the bug is invalid. If it's not, then I'd say that the bug is that the instance directory is insecure
<Daviey> zul: ^^
<rbasak> adam_g: thanks
<Daviey> zul: see 929127?
<zul> adam_g: that should be fixed but needs to be verified
<rbasak> zul: fixed how?
<adam_g> ?
<adam_g> its fixed upstream, is it released yet in our packaging? i dont think it will be till this weeks snapshot?
<zul> Daviey: should be fixed
<zul> rbasak: should be ill double check
<rbasak> ?
<Daviey> zul: think rbasak was looking for more detail :)
<zul> Daviey: heh once i get more detail ill tell him
<Daviey> okay ;)
<Daviey> 875262 W PHP Startup: Unable to load dynamic library '/usr/lib/php5/20090626+lfs/sqlite.so' W php5 - SpamapS was working with koolhead17
<Daviey> need Clint to update status
<rbasak> zul: OK, so I'll leave it with you, then?
<zul> rbasak: yes
<rbasak> cool, thanks
<Daviey> roaksoax: 880339 W AppArmor profile needs update W mysql-5.1
<adam_g> rbasak: no, i think he was talking about 929127, unrelated to the instance dir
<roaksoax> Daviey: trying to reproduce it again as we speak, but have been unable too
<rbasak> zul, which bug are you talking about that is fixed?
<Daviey> roaksoax: cool
<zul> rbasak: the libvirt console one
<Daviey> zul: 906654 W nova should depend on openstackx and load appropriate osapi_extensions by default W nova
<rbasak> zul: which libvirt console one?
<zul> rbasak: lets do this after the meeting i have too many plates in the air
<zul> Daviey: that should be invalid
<adam_g> Daviey: thats invalid now, finally
<SpamapS> o/
<Daviey> great!
<Daviey> zul: can you update it so
<Daviey> SpamapS: good morning
<zul> Daviey: ack
<SpamapS> ahoy
<Daviey> SpamapS: can you comment on bug  875262 W PHP Startup: Unable to load dynamic library '/usr/lib/php5/20090626+lfs/sqlite.so' W php5 ?
<Daviey> SpamapS: amd bug 914392 W LXC local provider does not respect 'series' (only installs oneiric) W juju - Fixed, awaiting upload, right?
<SpamapS> Daviey: I am going to re-introduce the idea of shipping PHP 5.4.0 today actually. It appears that 5.4.0 final will release on Thursday..
<Daviey> SpamapS: neat!
<Daviey> SpamapS: Are you going to look at deps?  Last time we broke a string of packages :)
<Daviey> rdeps
<SpamapS> Daviey: either way, 875262 will be fixed by a merge with Debian, whether its 5.4.0~rc7 from experimental, or 5.3.10 from testing
<SpamapS> Daviey: 5.4 is *a lot* different than 5.3
<zul> but hey thats php for you
<SpamapS> Daviey: the list of backward incompatible changes is about 4 items long, and all of them were marked as deprecated in 5.3 .. so I expect a lot less code explosion
<Daviey> lets defer for the RFC :)
<SpamapS> PHP has changed its ways
<SpamapS> they have a firm RFC process for features, and a feature freeze on major releases.
<Daviey> zul: bug 907197 W ip address can't be injected into the instance when using lxc W nova
<zul> still waiting for time
<m_3> fix for 914392 has made it into juju trunk and ppa... still needs to be bumped in the real archives
<Daviey> zul: bug 879666 W chown error for console.fifo when launching vm W nova ?
<zul> will be fixed today
<Daviey> lynxman / jamespage: ipxe upload?
<Daviey> m_3: thanks!
<jamespage> done
<SpamapS> Daviey: the LXC bug was fixed upstream in juju yesterday
<Daviey> jamespage: it's been uploaded?
<jamespage> yes
<SpamapS> Daviey: so I'll upload that today or tomorrow.
<Daviey> SpamapS: neat
<Daviey> jamespage: bug 916489 W grub-ipxe says "B: command not found" , not closed?
<jamespage> hmm
<Daviey> is this hallyn or justinlw: 918791 W qemu-kvm dies when using vmvga driver and unity in the guest
<Daviey> utlemming: bug 926160 W precise cloud-images significantly larger than oneiric W ubuntu ?
<jamespage> Daviey: missing from changelog - I'll close it manually and with required details.
<Daviey> jamespage: thanks!
<utlemming> Daviey: it looks to be file system meta-data, but I'm still investigating that
<jamespage> Daviey: done
<Daviey> utlemming: okay, how is it progressing?
<hallyn> Daviey: I've not been looking at that one
<utlemming> Daviey: its moving along fine...the fix involves changes to the build system.
<Daviey> adam_g: happen to know how: 928378 W glance client should be separate from server W glance & 901881 W nova and glance should depend on python-keystone W glance is doing?
<hallyn> I was hoping upstream woudl get involved...
<Daviey> utlemming: significant changes?
<hallyn> I can look at it after thursday
<Daviey> utlemming: Can you expand a bit more of what needs to change?
<adam_g> Daviey: i +1 that
<Daviey> adam_g: fix committed?
<adam_g> Daviey: no
<utlemming> Daviey: we need to change the creation of the file system (define the journal size and the max file system size)  or lay down the exact file system used for the instance store images.
<adam_g> Daviey: that might be something to attempt to change in upstream packaging before ubuntu
<Daviey> utlemming: is this a current priority?
<Daviey> adam_g: ok, are you tracking/driving that?
<adam_g> Daviey: no, but ill ping smoser about it
<utlemming> Daviey: smoser and I determined that it is not critical, and thus medium priority. The fix will come a bit later in the cycle. We're trying to get Query2, Glance and mirroring scripts ASAP.
<Daviey> adam_g: was smoser working on it?
<Daviey> roaksoax: 887186 W squid proxy big and small buckets not functioning correctly .. did you see smoser did some investigating into squid configs.. is that helpful/useful?
<adam_g> Daviey: he had filed the original, i haven't touched it yet
<Daviey> utlemming: Okay, obv. The nearer we get to deeper release milestones, varying of the build system is a concern :)
<Daviey> adam_g: thanks
<justinlw> daviey: I will take a look at https://launchpad.net/bugs/918791
<Daviey> justinlw: discuss it with hallyn.. you two have a better understanding of that, than i could hope to :)
<utlemming> Daviey: understood :)
<Ursinha> Daviey, any other bugs?
<roaksoax> Daviey: we need to test the newest squid for that really, but I'm not really sure whether we should pull it directly from upstream or wait for debian
<Daviey> utlemming: can you follow up with infinity about 759545 W user prompted to update unmodified grub configuration during Ubuntu server upgrade ?
<utlemming> Daviey: ack
<Daviey> Hmm
<Daviey> utlemming: 920749 W pam configuration for SSH prevents LANG override, was interesting, right
<utlemming> Daviey: interesting, but the fix is going to take some discussion, probably a blue print for 12.10.
<utlemming> Daviey: there will be no fix for 12.04
<Daviey> utlemming: can you follow up with cjwatson if it's viable for this cycle?
<Daviey> stgraber: is bug 850960 on your roadmap?
<utlemming> Daviey: I've had some discussion with him, and the idea is to create a way for dynamic locale's. I developed a fix for it for the images, but cjwatson wants a more holistic solution for desktop and server.
<Daviey> utlemming: right
<Daviey> ok, i'll leave the other questions unanswered for now
 * Daviey passes the baton back to Ursinha
<stgraber> Daviey: it's on one of my lists, not high priority though as I don't actually use iscsi ;)
<Ursinha> merci Daviey
<Ursinha> [TOPIC] Ubuntu Server Team Events
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:  Ubuntu Server Team Events
<Ursinha> any events worth mentioning?
<SpamapS> Is strata coming up soon?
<stgraber> Daviey: the current iscsi works, it's just really ugly as it basically does an exit 0 if it notices an existing iscsi mount from initramfs
<SpamapS> http://strataconf.com/strata2012
<SpamapS> m_3 will be there
<SpamapS> Feb 28 - Mar 1
<Ursinha> anyone else?
<SpamapS> everyone else is still recovering from FOSDEM ;)
<jamespage> :-)
<Ursinha> hehe, okay :)
 * Ursinha takes notes
<Ursinha> moving on then
<Ursinha> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
<hggdh> nothing new from me
<Ursinha> is hggdh around?
<hggdh> :-)
<Ursinha> thanks hggdh :)
<Ursinha> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb)
<smb> Not really much to say right now.
<Ursinha> all right
<Ursinha> moving on..
<Ursinha> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions regarding Ubuntu ARM Server (rbasak)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions regarding Ubuntu ARM Server (rbasak)
<rbasak> Nothing to report.
<Ursinha> :)
<Ursinha> thanks rbasak
<Ursinha> [TOPIC] Open Discussion
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:  Open Discussion
<Ursinha> go wild
<Daviey> okjfiojgpoikgrh
<Daviey> ger
<Daviey> hg
<Daviey> th
<Daviey> rth
<SpamapS> huats: did you want to discuss Zentyal?
<Ursinha> lol
<SpamapS> While we await huats response.. I am in the process of updating erlang and rabbtimq ..
<Daviey> SpamapS: lemme chat out of band to you about rabbitmq
<Ursinha> do you want to discuss that in the meeting or can we just move on?
<Daviey> move on
<Ursinha> righto
<Ursinha> [TOPIC] Announce next meeting date and time
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:  Announce next meeting date and time
<Ursinha> next meeting should be same time (16utc), Feb. 21
<Daviey> Ursinha: suprise us with the time/date
<Ursinha> who wants to be the chair?
<Daviey> heh, thanks fordriving Ursinha !
<Daviey> Ursinha: you did a GREAT job, fancy making it a regular fixture?
<SpamapS> indeed thanks
<Ursinha> Daviey, lol, I can do that but I know that's only because you all hate to do so
<Ursinha> and I'm a nice girl
<Daviey> netx should be utlemming ?
<utlemming> I thought I was on this week, so I'll plan on it
<Ursinha> utlemming was the first on the list
<Daviey> Ursinha: NO, IT'S THE HILIGHT OF MY WEEK.!
<Ursinha> hahaha
<Ursinha> utlemming, do you want to chair?
<utlemming> Well, if it means so much to Daviey, I can defer
<Daviey> hmm, talking of which - we need to review who isn't on the list..
<Ursinha> you are all so funny
<Ursinha> technically I'm not
<Ursinha> urshina is
<Ursinha> :P
<Ursinha> okay, next week I won't be around, utlemming and Daviey, you decide then!
<Ursinha> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<arosales> Ursinha: Thanks for hosting :-)
<Ursinha> thanks all for joining the 2012 valentines' day server meeting
<Ursinha> cheers!
<Daviey> xxxxx
<SpamapS> XOXO
<adam_g> <3
<Ursinha> rofl
<jsalisbury> #startmeeting
<jsalisbury> ##
<meetingology> jsalisbury: Error: Can't start another meeting, one is in progress.
<jsalisbury> ## This is the Ubuntu Kernel Team weekly status meeting.
<jsalisbury> ##
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Precise
<jsalisbury> # Meeting Etiquette
<jsalisbury> #
<jsalisbury> # NOTE: '..' indicates that you are finished with your input.
<jsalisbury> #       'o/' indicates you have something to add (please wait until you are recognized)
<jsalisbury> Ursinha, did you issue a #endmeeting?
<Ursinha> jsalisbury, yes
<Ursinha> let me do this again
<Ursinha> #endmeeting ubuntu-server-team
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<Ursinha> jsalisbury, what about now?
<jsalisbury> Ursinha, thanks
<jsalisbury> #startmeeting
<meetingology> jsalisbury: Error: Can't start another meeting, one is in progress.
<jsalisbury> ##
<jsalisbury> ## This is the Ubuntu Kernel Team weekly status meeting.
<jsalisbury> ##
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Precise
<jsalisbury> # Meeting Etiquette
<jsalisbury> #
<jsalisbury> # NOTE: '..' indicates that you are finished with your input.
<jsalisbury> #       'o/' indicates you have something to add (please wait until you are recognized)
<Ursinha> (jsalisbury, it didn't work)
<jsalisbury> Roll Call for Ubuntu Kernel Weekly Status Meeting
<apw> o/
<herton> o/
<jsalisbury> The bot is broke
<ppisati> o/
<bjf> \o/
<sforshee> o/
<ogasawara> o/
<ppisati> bad bot, no cookies
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] ARM Status (ppisati)
<ppisati> P/omap4: nothing new to report this week
<ppisati> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
<jsalisbury> Release metrics and incoming bug data can be reviewed at the following link:
<jsalisbury> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/kt-meeting.txt
<jsalisbury> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Milestone Targeted Work Items (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> [LINK] http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-precise/canonical-kernel-distro-team-ubuntu-12.04-beta-1.html
<ogasawara> || apw        || hardware-p-kernel-boot                || 2 work items ||
<ogasawara> ||            || hardware-p-kernel-config-review       || 3 work items ||
<ogasawara> ||            || hardware-p-kernel-delta-review        || 2 work items ||
<ogasawara> || ogasawara  || hardware-p-kernel-config-review       || 4 work items ||
<ogasawara> || sconklin   || servercloud-p-ceph                    || 1 work item  ||
<ogasawara> If your name is in the above table, please review your Beta-1 work items.
<ogasawara> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Blueprint: hardware-p-kernel-power-management (cking)
<jsalisbury> No update this week.
<jsalisbury> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Precise Development Kernel (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> We've recently rebased to upstream stable v3.2.6 and uploaded.  Please
<ogasawara> note that Beta Freeze is next week, Thurs Feb 23.  I ideally want to
<ogasawara> upload our final Beta-1 kernel by the end of the week, but no later than
<ogasawara> Monday.  If there are any patches which need to land, submit them now.
<ogasawara> Important upcoming dates:
<ogasawara>  * Thurs Feb 23 - Beta Freeze (~1 week)
<ogasawara>  * Thurs Mar 01 - Beta 1 (~2 weeks)
<ogasawara> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: CVE's (apw)
<apw> Currently we have 73 CVEs on our radar, one new CVEs were added this week.
<apw> See the CVE matrix for the current list:
<apw>  
<apw> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/cve/pkg/ALL-linux.html
<apw>  
<apw> Overall the backlog is unchanged this week, though we have closed a couple
<apw> of hardy CVEs and one CVE across the board:
<apw>  
<apw> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/status/cve-metrics.txt
<apw> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/cve/pkg/CVE-linux.txt
<apw>  
<apw> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Oneiric/Natty/Maverick/Lucid/Hardy (bjf/herton)
<bjf>  
<bjf> Here is the status for the main kernels, until today (Jan. 24):
<bjf>  
<bjf>  * Hardy - 2.6.24-31.99
<bjf>   * Several CVE commits. There was also a significant change implemented by Tim and Andy for xen and openvz to make
<bjf>     them easier to maintain.
<bjf>  
<bjf>  * Lucid - 2.6.32-39.86
<bjf>   * Probably close to 100 upstream stable commits in this upload. We were in a holding pattern on lucid last cycle
<bjf>     as work was done on the 10.04.04 point release. This will get us caught up again.
<bjf>  
<bjf>  * Maverick - 2.6.35-32.66
<bjf>   * Just a couple CVEs.
<bjf>  
<bjf>  * Natty - 2.6.38-13.56
<bjf>   * Just a couple CVEs.
<bjf>  
<bjf>  * Oneiric - 3.0.0-16.29
<bjf>   * In addition to some CVEs, there are a bunch of stable upstream commits.
<bjf>  
<bjf> Current opened tracking bugs details:
<bjf>  * http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/kernel-sru-workflow.html
<bjf>  
<bjf> For SRUs, SRU report is a good source of information:
<bjf>  * http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/sru-report.html
<bjf>  
<bjf> Future stable cadence cycles:
<bjf>  * https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PrecisePangolin/ReleaseInterlock
<bjf> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
<jsalisbury> Thanks everyone
<jsalisbury> #endmeeting
<AlanBell> sorry about the bot fail, we have a server problem :/
<Ursinha> bug 123456
<marvin_> Launchpad bug 123456 in xine-lib (Ubuntu) "podcast crashes amarok" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/123456
<Ursinha> AlanBell, what happened? (if you are talking about ubottu...)
<AlanBell> Ursinha: meetingology and ubottu are on the same host
<Ursinha> AlanBell, I see
<AlanBell> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Feb 14 21:42:13 2012 UTC.  The chair is AlanBell. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
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<AlanBell> yay
<AlanBell> #topic foo
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: foo
<AlanBell> #topic bar
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: bar
<AlanBell> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Feb 14 21:42:34 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-02-14-21.42.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-02-14-21.42.html
<AlanBell> \o/
 * skaet smiles at AlanBell's meeting test
#ubuntu-meeting 2012-02-15
 * slangasek waves
<ev> hi
<ev> apologies in advance for the flood
 * stgraber waves
<stgraber> ev: oh, you mean it's even longer than usual ;)
<jhunt> o/
<ev> stgraber: exactly
 * ev teas and hopes he's not first up
<slangasek> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Wed Feb 15 16:04:58 2012 UTC.  The chair is slangasek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
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<slangasek> [TOPIC] Lightning round
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Lightning round
<slangasek> ev: sorry ;)
<slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e barry bdmurray cjwatson doko ev jhunt_ stgraber slangasek)
<slangasek> ev doko jhunt_ barry stgraber slangasek bdmurray cjwatson
<stgraber> ;)
<slangasek> doko: do you want to go ahead while ev is tea-ing?
<doko> ok
<doko> - LinaroConnect last week, cumbersome way back home
<doko> - forwarding GCC 4.7 upstream issues, another 4.6 test build (will hit precise this week)
<doko> - started openjdk-6 security updates
<doko> - eglibc fixes, thanks to cjwatson
<doko> done
<jhunt> Finished changes for bug 926468. Reworked early job logging code and
<jhunt> combined both into upstart-1.4-0ubuntu7~jh in my
<jhunt> https://launchpad.net/~jamesodhunt/+archive/upstart-job-logging PPA for
<jhunt> testing prior to FF (if you're not running it, please install and !)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 926468 in upstart (Ubuntu Precise) "Stopping ssh with a logged in user causes init to spin at 100%" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/926468
<jhunt> Investigating test failures on PPC+ARM*. Spent a little time looking at
<jhunt> bug 931220/931584 with stgraber.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 931220 in lxc (Ubuntu) "lxc-start should get a close-all-fds option to avoid weird issues" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/931220
<jhunt> â
<jhunt> ... and provide feedback that is :)
<ev> back
<stgraber> ev: go ahead
<ev> apols for that
<ev> okay, cheers
<ev> - Lots and lots of work on the new Apport UI:
<ev>   - More work on matching the KDE frontend to the GTK changes.
<ev>   - Some bug fixes.
<ev>   - Handle errors better in the information collection thread.
<ev>   - Fix some issues around displaying multiple reports in one run.
<ev>   - Unit test the GTK+ frontend, complete with a pair of bug fixes.
<ev>   - Add KDE frontend unit tests, along with some more bug fixes.
<ev>   - Remove old GTK+ dialogs.
<ev>   - Put graphical tests under xvfb. Only use it if it's present.
<ev>   - Don't hardcode Ubuntu.
<ev>   - Move UI tests out of their respective modules, per pitti's request.
<ev>   - Bring apport-cli into the new threaded way of collection problem
<ev>     information. Update its calls to the UI backend.
<ev>   - Merge review with Martin in:
<ev>     https://code.launchpad.net/~ev/apport/whoopsie/+merge/92753
<ev> - Lots and lots of work around whoopsie's security review:
<ev>   - Don't fail if there are no crash files (LP: #928735).
<ev>   - Do not attempt to load the control center panel UI from the build
<ev>     directory.
<ev>   - Check the return value of the open call in get_system_uuid.
<ev>   - Properly initialize libcrypt.
<ev>   - Check that the call to gcry_md_open succeeds.
<ev>   - Ensure that reading the SHA512 message digest succeeds.
<ev>   - Protect against changes to the message digest length creating a security
<ev>     vulnerability.
<ev>   - Check the returncode of setenv.
<ev>   - Use /var/lock/whoopsie instead of /tmp/.whoopsie-lock.
<ev>   - Future proof by using getrlimit instead of explicitly closing STD*.
<ev>   - Redirect stdin, stdout, and stderr to /dev/null.
<ev>   - Ensure strings created in update_to_crash_file are NUL-terminated.
<ev>   - Only process regular files in /var/crash.
<ev>   - Replace calls to *alloc with g_*alloc, which calls abort on failure.
<ev>   - Remove unused system_uuid pointer references.
<ev>   - Recover from being unable to get the system UUID.
<ev>   - Fix warnings in make check.
<ev>   - Initialize all of curl.
<ev>   - Redirect stderr to null in chgrp and chmod calls.
<ev>   - Set home directory to /nonexistent.
<ev>   - Enable libcrypt secure memory.
<ev>   - Put the lock file in /var/lock/whoopsie/.
<ev>   - Sanity check the CRASH_DB_URL environment variable.
<ev>   - Add some more tests for parse_report, along with data from Jamie
<ev>     Strandboge.
<ev>   - Check handling of embedded NUL bytes.
<ev>   - Verify that symlinks in /var/crash produce the correct error.
<ev>   - Verify that keys without values in reports produce an error message.
<ev>   - Ensure that the report does not start with a value.
<ev>   - Correctly identify a report without spaces as malformed.
<ev>   - Verify that directories in /var/crash produce the correct error.
<ev>   - Ensure that blank lines in a report are treated as errors.
<ev>   - Change the crash database URL to http://daisy.ubuntu.com :)
<ev>   - Ensure that carriage returns are escaped.
<ev>   - Do not start multiline values with a newline.
<ev>   - Check that a valid report has the exact expected contents.
<ev>   - MIR/security review with Jamie in:
<ev>     https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/whoopsie-daisy/+bug/913694
<ev> - Slideshow planning meeting with Christian and Dylan.
<ev> - Meeting to understand Canonical UK pension scheme.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 913694 in whoopsie-daisy (Ubuntu) "[MIR] whoopsie-daisy" [Undecided,In progress]
<ev> (done)
<ev> I will need a freeze exception, but I'm buried in interview prep work, so I'll sort that later tonight
<stgraber> - Networking
<stgraber>  - Waiting on SRU test results for ifenslave/vlan/bridge, I'm told I should have these later today
<stgraber>  - Got daily IPv6 testing ported to regular bridge-utils so it can run within a container (yeah, container in containers)
<stgraber> - Arkose
<stgraber>  - Updated the Arkose cli tool to show all the new features, did some minor bugfixing of the python module, updated translations and released 1.5
<stgraber> - Friendly-Recovery
<stgraber>  - Updated menu landed, all options are always displayed now and switch from read-only to read/write is done when selecting an option requiring it
<stgraber>  - Still working on a 'system information' option, should land later today or early tomorrow
<stgraber> - LTSP
<stgraber>  - Improve ltsp-live for Edubuntu
<stgraber>  - Lots of changes happening upstream to get the new shiny stuff ready by Feature Freeze. Testers are still busy and I expect an upload very shortly before FF.
<stgraber>  - Merged nbd from unstable to get some fixes needed for LTSP.
<stgraber>  - I've also started cleaning up the maintainer scripts and will spend some time to deal with our current installer bugs (ltsp-client-builder udeb)
<stgraber> - Upstart
<stgraber>  - Tried to figure out why some jobs sometimes inherit an extra fd (a socket in this case), tracked down to something around libldap/libnss-ldap/libnss affecting
<stgraber>    machines using libnss-ldap. This was breaking LXC's upstart job, now fixed in LXC by having lxc-start close the extra fds.
<stgraber> - Containers
<stgraber>  - Uploaded a new LXC with reworked template and Serge's patch to have our consoles and ttys in /dev/lxc, fixing upgrade/dist-upgrade in LXC for good. (bug 927519))
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 927519 in lxc (Ubuntu) "makedev fails to upgrade in lxc container with error 'Device or resource busy'" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/927519
<stgraber>  - Updated shadow to add the new LXC consoles and ttys to securetty
<stgraber>  - Added a network-interface-container upstart job to ifupdown to simulate net-device-added for 'lo' in containers
<stgraber>  - Disable udevadm trigger --action=add in containers (bug 925122) - commited to the packaging branch, waiting on upstart to build on armel/armhf/powerpc.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 925122 in udev (Ubuntu) "container's udevadm trigger --add affects the host" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/925122
<stgraber> - Other
<stgraber>  - Helped some friends of the LTTng project, sponsored the new LTTng2 stack (now in NEW) and filed the needed package removal bugs for the old broken stack
<stgraber>  - Will release pastebinit 1.3 later today, waiting for some extra translations at the moment
<stgraber> (done)
 * slangasek runs out of breath reading ev's report
<ev> hah
<jhunt> ENOSPC over here! :)
<slangasek> stgraber: huh, why does lxc need different names for its ttys?
<stgraber> slangasek: lxc was bind mounting its ttys from outside the container to /dev/tty[1234] which is all fine, except when you deal with anything like udev/makedev/... which tries to move them, remove them, ...
<stgraber> slangasek: so the easiest solution to fix it until we get a proper device namespace and can stop with the bind mounts was to use another location
<slangasek> hmm, ok
<slangasek> right, my turn
<slangasek>  * short week, was off Monday
<slangasek>  * interviewing
<slangasek>  * helping test/merge upstart fixes to be landed in precise today
<slangasek>  * resolvconf finagling
<slangasek>  * discussions about how to minimize future breakage from eglibc uploads
<slangasek>  * libnih1 uploaded for essential-ish pre-dependency issues
<slangasek>  * working with IS to get qemu-linaro situated to where it can be used as an emulated armel buildd running on top of a hardy VM
<slangasek>  * minor eglibc work
<slangasek>  * virtual sprint planning
<slangasek> ..
<slangasek> questions?
<bdmurray> review of bug pattern merge proposals from Vadim Rutkovsky
<bdmurray> fixing of SRU for bug 873424 after discussion with verifier
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 873424 in update-manager (Ubuntu Oneiric) "ask me later fails" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/873424
<bdmurray> test and fix for bug 901381 regarding ubiquity's apport behavior
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 901381 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "excepthook in gtk_ui.py should write a crash report instead of calling ubuntu-bug" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/901381
<bdmurray> triage of bug 922330 regarding wubi installing precise
<bdmurray> fixed lp_buttontags to make tagging bugs easier
<bdmurray> modifications to lp-grab-attachments to download bugs about a project
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 922330 in Wubi "Wubi.exe from 11.10 official CD installs 12.04 snapshot if CD not available" [Medium,Won't fix] https://launchpad.net/bugs/922330
<bdmurray> updated bugsquad tags to include new ubiquity bug tags
<bdmurray> research into and fixing of universe packages assigned to the foundations team in the package to team mapping
<bdmurray> upload of update-manager to lucid-proposed which adds in apport package hook
<bdmurray> fixed bug 878335 regarding moving bugs to grub-installer from ubiquity
<bdmurray> creation of packageset recent package bug graphs
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 878335 in apport (Ubuntu) "ubiquity source package hook should move more bugs to grub-installer" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/878335
<bdmurray> â
<cjwatson> Interviewing.
<cjwatson> Another try at fixing ports installs (bug 919356).
<cjwatson> Investigation of fixes for glibc 2.15 regressions.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 919356 in choose-mirror (Ubuntu) "Default hostname needed for PowerPC" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/919356
<cjwatson> Added a mock GResolver to the ubiquity test suite to make it more reliable in various contexts (the powerpc build, stgraber's LXC setup).  Would have been much quicker except that https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=669847 meant I had to do this in C.
<ubottu> Gnome bug 669847 in gio "GSimpleAsyncResult introspection annotates methods as functions; unusable for creating results for errors" [Normal,Unconfirmed]
<cjwatson> Clearing out http://lintian.ubuntuwire.org/tags/preinst-uses-dpkg-maintscript-helper-without-predepends.html.  Very slow and tedious, but everything is uploaded or has patches in a BTS somewhere now.
<cjwatson> Made a pass through some outstanding team work items with Steve and postponed a few.
<cjwatson> Tested transfer speed between cdimage and ftpmaster for foundations-p-image-build-pipeline.
<cjwatson> Reorganised the ubiquity test suite to be able to run in a DEP-8-compliant package tester (i.e. testing the installed version of the package).
<cjwatson> Working on a refactoring of how ubiquity removes about-to-be-copied files from the target system that fixes a slew of bugs and is more testable.
<cjwatson> ..
<jhunt> cjwatson: have we got the infrastructure to run DEP-8 tests yet?
<cjwatson> autopkgtest exists; I don't know its current status, and we don't yet have it set up in a datacentre machine or anything
<cjwatson> in theory should be a simple matter of sysadmin
<jhunt> great as I'd like to be able to run the upstart tests in this way too.
<cjwatson> You should be able to give autopkgtest a spin locally if you have time :)
<slangasek> stgraber: this udev change would more than slow the boot, it would prevent events from being triggered entirely... this requires a versioned dep on upstart.
<cjwatson> I admit I didn't actually try it out, merely ran the test in the appropriate environment under strace to ensure that it was testing the installed system and read the spec for the control file very carefully
<jhunt> cjwatson: ok, ta.
<slangasek> is the QA team involved with the autopkgtest discussions?
<stgraber> slangasek: indeed, I'll add the versioned dep.
<cjwatson> slangasek: there were QA people present at the appropriate UDS sessions, and jibel has a work item that came out of that; can't speak for after that
<slangasek> stgraber: please check that such a versioned dep doesn't cause upgrade problems, too...
<slangasek> cjwatson: ok
<slangasek> cjwatson: just wondering if this is something that should be set up to run as part of the QA lab
<cjwatson> eventually, yes; the blueprint calls for initial metadata to be added to a few key packages, and for something to be written that's able to feed it into a putative "should this be allowed to migrate from -proposed" tool
 * slangasek nods
<cjwatson> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/foundations-p-upload-intermediary
<slangasek> any other questions?
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Bugs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Bugs
<bdmurray> I've run across a couple this week worth discussing
<bdmurray> Is bug 930304 something our team should fix?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 930304 in eglibc (Ubuntu) "gdm is attempted to be reloaded even when not runnning" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/930304
<slangasek> yes
<bdmurray> okay
<slangasek> I'll probably wind up doing that one with my Debian eglibc committer hat
<slangasek> (feel free to assign to me)
<doko> ohh, nice =)
<bdmurray> regarding bug 818760 should the timeout be increased or might it be something with the server?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 818760 in update-manager (Ubuntu) "update-manager crashed with timeout in readline(): timed out" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/818760
<bdmurray> uri=urllib2.urlopen(req, timeout=20)
<cjwatson> in principle it's always possible for network communication to fail for all kinds of reasons
<bdmurray> from the traceback
<cjwatson> u-m has to cope somehow without crashing
<cjwatson> and preferably without stalling the UI forever while it tries to talk through a firewall that's dropping all its outbound packets, say
<slangasek> right, so it needs to be fixed to not crash
<bdmurray> got it
<bdmurray> bug 926581 - that should have tasks for the meta package or the package manager?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 926581 in msttcorefonts (Ubuntu) "eula not shown when installed via restricted-extras" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/926581
<mvo> (fwiw, this stuff should be running in a thread already, but indeed, it should not crash)
<ev> ah, debconf. Can we set fire to it yet?
<cjwatson> :-P
<ev> :D
<slangasek> no, but feel free to fix its protocol ;)
<cjwatson> what's the protocol-level problem here?
<slangasek> here? none
<ev> sure, I'll just make it NOP every instruction
<slangasek> but I was offering ev productive outlets for his anger ;)
<ev> give me the source code to dpkg and hook me to a turbine. I'll power London with my rage. ;)
<slangasek> bdmurray: seems like a synaptic problem
<bdmurray> and software-center (that's what I tested)
<bdmurray> er, not software-center
<bdmurray> okay, thanks!
<slangasek> oh
<slangasek> sorry, read to fast
<slangasek> I read comment 3 but didn't digest 4
<bdmurray> well my grammar didn't help I'm sure
<slangasek> that's a puzzling one
<slangasek> anyone want to take a closer look at it?
<slangasek> well, I'll have a peek then
<slangasek> bdmurray: any other bugs?
<bdmurray> just wubi bug 862003
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 862003 in Wubi "wubi installs successfully but ends in 'permission denied' error due to the presence of a virtual or readonly drive; this only happens running wubi.exe standalone i.e. when installing using the tar.xz preinstalled image" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/862003
<cjwatson> ... how's that Windows hire going? ;-)
<slangasek> ... workin' on it
<slangasek> add that bug to the queue :P
<bdmurray> I'll have to make a queue but okay
<slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<slangasek> anything else?
<ev> filing a freeze exception for the crash database stuff as mentioned above
<ev> not a lot more work, just more than I think I'll manage tonight
<cjwatson> the freeze is actually 2100 tomorrow, I believe
<ev> yay, that buys me a bit more time
<slangasek> :)
<ev> should I request an exception, just in case, or is mentioning it here enough to make the release team aware that I'm cutting it close?
<slangasek> it's already on Kate's list
<slangasek> as a "late-landing change"
<cjwatson> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PrecisePangolin/FeatureLanding
<slangasek> yep
<ev> wow, hyper-organized
<ev> cheers guys
<slangasek> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Feb 15 16:54:10 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-02-15-16.04.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-02-15-16.04.html
<slangasek> that's a wrap
<slangasek> thanks all
<ev> thanks!
<stgraber> thanks!
<doko> bye
<jhunt> thanks!
<balloons> yar.. it be time to talk about some QA yar
<balloons> so let's begin
<balloons> #startmeeting Ubuntu QA
<meetingology> Meeting started Wed Feb 15 17:04:27 2012 UTC.  The chair is balloons. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
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* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu QA Meeting | Current topic:
<balloons> I'll go ahead and ask for a brief roll call, while I grab the agenda :-)
<albrigha> o/
 * charlie-tca here
<phillw> o/
<balloons> hello everyone
<balloons> first item on the agenda
<balloons> [TOPIC] Previous Actions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu QA Meeting | Current topic:  Previous Actions
<balloons> ACTION: phillw to update wiki to better reflect activities and automated testing pages
<balloons> phillw, any updates on this?
<phillw> I've had a dig around, and the main source of information seems to be https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-p-qa-automated-test-submissions does anyone know of any other infornmation?
<phillw> I apologise, life has been a little hectic of late. I will ask on the mailing list / search archives etc. to try and garner further information this week.
<balloons> no worries phillw.. Happy to have you working on it
<balloons> i believe the idea was to change up the wiki page a bit to give more light to the activities link
<phillw> Hopefully with feature freeze imminent, things will quieten down a bit.
<balloons> yes.. this week has been quite busy
<balloons> and the work previous
<balloons> :-)
<phillw> I'll have a draft up before the next meeting and circualte it.
<balloons> so for instance on this page, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam, the activities is still buried as a link
<balloons> sounds great..
<balloons> [ACTION] phillw to provide draft on wiki updates to activities and automated testing pages
<meetingology> ACTION: phillw to provide draft on wiki updates to activities and automated testing pages
<balloons> ok, moving along
<balloons> [TOPIC] Ubuntu Updates
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu QA Meeting | Current topic:  Ubuntu Updates
<balloons> ok, Lucid ISO testing for 10.04.4 is going on today.. I know everyone is busy busy
<balloons> I have been as hammered as everyone else, but I plan to do so testing this afternoon on those isos
<balloons> not sure if jibel wants to say anything more.. he's likely knee-deep right now
<charlie-tca> o/
<balloons> go ahead charlie-tca
<charlie-tca> I am testing Kubuntu, and that could use any help we can get. I think 10.04.4 is Kubuntu and Ubuntu only, isn't it?
<charlie-tca> Ubuntu is looking pretty good, but nothing is done yet for Kubuntu
<charlie-tca> ..
<balloons> charlie-tca, yes it should be only those 2
<balloons> I know ScottK was asking for help as well.. I'll do some kubuntu isos :-)
<balloons> if anyone else has a spare moment, they would greatly appreciate it
<balloons> the other update for ubuntu is feature freeze as phillw mentioned, and it affects everyone. Lots of calls for testing have gone out this week and last in preparation for it
<balloons> i'll talk more about those "calls for testing" at the end.. I wanted to get some feedback from everyone
<balloons> any questions?
<Riddell> thanks balloons
<balloons> k, let's move on to the flavors! :-)
<balloons> [TOPIC] Ubuntu Flavor Updates
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu QA Meeting | Current topic:  Ubuntu Flavor Updates
<balloons> yvw Riddell
<balloons> Riddell, since your here.. anything additional to share on Kubuntu?
<Riddell> umm, what's the meeting?
<balloons> :-) this is for the QA team
<Riddell> QA?
<balloons> yep yep
<Riddell> I just put telepathy-kde on the CD, that needs testing to decide if it's better or worse than (unmaintained) kopete
<Riddell> owncloud could do with some testing (come to #kubuntu-devel to try it out with music streaming!)
<Riddell> we hope to get kubuntu-active CDs being made soon, that'll be i386 simple live sessions test, not install
<Riddell> means we'd be the first distro with a tablet edition I think
<balloons> kubuntu-active?
<Riddell> and of course kubuntu isn't going to be supported by canonical any more so we'll need to consider how that affects QA in future
<balloons> Riddell, any plans to change up how qa works in kubuntu?
<Riddell> kubuntu-active is a proposed remix of kubuntu with plasma active, the tablet UI http://www.plasma-active.org/
<Riddell> we have no plans yet
<balloons> ahh.. ok, plasma-active is neat.. will be interesting to see where that goes
<balloons> ok.. anything else to update or questions for kubuntu?
<Riddell> that's all
<balloons> thanks Riddell
<balloons> phillw, can you update us on lubuntu?
<phillw> usual hectic stuff, the alternate iso's are still over-sized but that is being worked on. We seem now to have enough people interested for Power PC testing to happen. As such I created https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/Testing/PPC
<phillw> If anyone is familiar with adding the ppc emulation in qemu (KVM), please do give a hint!
<phillw> that's about it from lubuntu.
<balloons> thanks phillw -- I saw the thread about messing about with qemu -- I hadn't used qemu in awhile. back in the days of qemu and kqemu :-)
<balloons> how about xubuntu?
<charlie-tca> We seem to be in pretty good shape
<charlie-tca> all images are at least working, even if they are oversize.
<charlie-tca> The oversize is expected at least until after Feature Freeze, when Ubuntu quits adding things
<charlie-tca> We are trying to keep up with daily testing as much as possible.
<charlie-tca> I am hopeless when it comes to automating the testing for Xubuntu.
<charlie-tca> ..
<balloons> charlie-tca, on the automation piece, do you feel xubuntu could piggyback onto the tools ubuntu uses / plans to use?
<balloons> err.. well is xfce moving to gtk3?
<charlie-tca> I can't. I don't have the background to figure out how to do it
<charlie-tca> Xfce won't move to gtk3 until 4.10, so we will have both gtk2 and gtk3 until then, probably Xubuntu 12.10
<balloons> ok.. no 4.10 in plans for precise (I don't think it releases to almost after precise :-) )
<charlie-tca> The chances of Xfce 4.10 coming out in time for precise are slim]
<balloons> ok, but they are moving.. I would assume then it might be possible
<charlie-tca> We keep hoping, though.
<balloons> something to think aboue
<balloons> alright, how about ubuntu studio?
<balloons> astraljava or  anyone else about?
<balloons> alright moving on.. edubuntu.. any updateS/
<balloons> stgraber, or highvoltage ?
<stgraber> nothing for edubuntu
<balloons> thanks :-)
<balloons> ok, moving topics
<balloons> [TOPIC] Blueprint updates / discussion
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<balloons> anyone want to discuss anything from the blueprints?
<balloons> or give an update, request help, etc?
<balloons> going once, twice..
<balloons> sold, and moving on :-)
<balloons> [TOPIC] Other topics
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<balloons> Ok, last on the agenda.. anyone have anything to add before we get into these final topics?
<balloons> i'll add you to the list right now :-)
<balloons> ok, let's start then
<balloons> first up is Lucid ISO Testing Updates
<balloons> I gave them for ubuntu, and the kubuntu guys have spoken about them for kubuntu.. if you can, please help test.. Riddell, if someone wants to help test kubuntu lucid 10.04.4 isos, is there an irc channel to hang out in?
<Riddell> welcome in #kubuntu-devel
<balloons> awesome, thanks
<balloons> next I wanted to speak about my "Calls for Testing" that have gone out.. these calls are still a work in progress, but I was hoping to get feedback from everyone if they felt they were helpful and they liked the format of them or not, etc
<balloons> any comments are appreciated if you got them ;-) I want to get more / better tools and metrics around doing this manual testing and I would take ideas on that as well.. both what we can do in the short-term as well as long-term
<charlie-tca> o/
<balloons> go ahead charlie-tca
<charlie-tca> I think the wording of the last three or four was great. I also like the fact that you are explaining the issues involved in messing up the install on your blog entries.
<charlie-tca> Letting people know if they do the test, they may have to reinstall to get back to where they were is always a good idea.
<charlie-tca> and thanks for your patience in explaining things.
<charlie-tca> .
<charlie-tca> ..
<balloons> charlie-tca, thanks for the feedback.. glad it's coming across as making sense
<charlie-tca> I usually try to see what the new people will be seeing. It is making good sense at this time.
<balloons> excellent to hear :-)
<balloons> we're pushing our time, so I'll move on to the last item
<balloons> Manual TestCase Review Updates
<balloons> albrigha, I'll let you speak a bit :-)
<albrigha> Hello!
<albrigha> well I completed copying over the wiki test cases to the test case spreadsheet
<albrigha> hopefully that will help on reworking them. otherwise I haven't done much more with them
<albrigha> there was some debating on updating them, etc. and i'm rather distracted with another project >_<
<albrigha> here is the spreadsheet document if others don't have it: https://docs.google.com/a/canonical.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AgtV30nnv18edFQzNVB4S2duOWNOT05zaHo3S0pNekE&hl=en_US#gid=0
<albrigha> i learned a lot while copying them over however, right now there isn't a lot of consistency
<balloons> i have been attempting to push out and get in any rewrites as quickly as possible. we've had a couple edits directly on the wiki as well.. some new tests for shotwell which never existed, etc
<balloons> so work is continuing and I appreciate all the work that has been done. we'll get there :-)
<balloons> thanks albrigha
<balloons> anything else from anyone? questions / comments?
<balloons> if not, let's call this meeting a wrap. Thanks for attending everyone. Hopefully the coming weeks will find all of us just a bit less busy! ;-)
<balloons> #endmeeting
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<meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Feb 15 17:53:44 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-02-15-17.04.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-02-15-17.04.html
<charlie-tca> balloons: thank you for chairing
<balloons> charlie-tca, et la.. as always, thanks for attending!
<charlie-tca> Got to just keep trying here.
<bdmurray> hi
<charlie-tca> Hi
<bdmurray> time for the bug squad meeting
<bdmurray> hey charlie-tca
<bdmurray> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Wed Feb 15 18:03:09 2012 UTC.  The chair is bdmurray. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<bdmurray> #topic Previous Actions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Previous Actions
<bdmurray> ACTION: create a better list of apport-crash bugs with "DBus.Error.NoReply" in the title with bug information regarding status, importance, number of dupes and users affected: bdmurray
<bdmurray> that was something Ursinha wanted to see
<bdmurray> and its at http://paste.ubuntu.com/843325/
<bdmurray> I stripped out the titles because they were all the same
<bdmurray> more or less
<bdmurray> so I think if the bug is Confirmed or Triaged they should be manually inspected otherwise they could automatically be marked as invalid
<bdmurray> with an explanation regarding why the client error isn't helpful and how we really want the crash from the server
<bdmurray> #topic Engineering Team Bug Status
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Engineering Team Bug Status
<bdmurray> I've been looking at update-manager bugs and realized there isn't an apport hook for update-manager in Lucid so I've added one and that upload is in lucid-proposed
<bdmurray> this should help us get higher quality bug reports from people performing distribution upgrades from lucid to precise
<bdmurray> that's bug 927979 if anybody wants to subscribe and do the sru verification
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 927979 in update-manager (Ubuntu Lucid) "include apport hook in Lucid version of update-manager" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/927979
<bdmurray> I've also had a change merged to ubiquity that will result in more apport-crash reports. Not more bugs but rather some crashes were being reported as apport-bug reports rather than crashes.
<bdmurray> so that'll be good
<bdmurray> as the bugs will have tracebacks and can be auto duplicated
<bdmurray> I also updated lp_buttontags and firefox-lp-improvements so that tagging works again
<bdmurray> finally I've a merge proposal that allows lp-grab-attachments to work with a project (I was using this to download all wubi bug attachments)
<bdmurray> Ursinha: Do you have anything?
<bdmurray> jsalisbury: ?
<jsalisbury> No major updates.  Continuing to address new precise kernels bug to get as many fixed as possible.
<jsalisbury> I need to ask the kernel team when kerneloops should be disabled in precise.
<bdmurray> kerneloops, ah right.  that's an easy thing so whenever
<jsalisbury> ok, I'll let you know shortly
<bdmurray> thanks!
<bdmurray> #topic Bug Escalations (any High or Critical bugs that community members have seen that need attention)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Bug Escalations (any High or Critical bugs that community members have seen that need attention)
<bdmurray> charlie-tca: have you seen anything?
<bdmurray> #topic Other Topics
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Other Topics
<bdmurray> anything else then?
<charlie-tca> sorry,
<bdmurray> charlie-tca: no problem
<charlie-tca> no, I haven't seen any really serious issues this cycle
<charlie-tca> It seems like a really good cycle for bugs
<bdmurray> that's good to hear, thanks
<bdmurray> if that's all then
<bdmurray> #endmeeting
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<meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Feb 15 18:24:28 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-02-15-18.03.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-02-15-18.03.html
<jsalisbury> thanks bdmurray
<charlie-tca> bdmurray: thank you for chairing
<gilir> #startmeeting Lubuntu Team Meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Wed Feb 15 20:03:38 2012 UTC.  The chair is gilir. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
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 * gilir looks around for people :)
 * Unit193 
<phillw> o/
 * wxl    
<Unit193> wxl: Monkey.... ;)
<wxl> ;)
<gilir> few people tonight, it should be a quick one this time :)
<gilir> aganda : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/IRC%20Meetings/Agenda
<kanliot> k
<gilir> #topic gilir - Review ACTIONS from the last meeting
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<gilir> clipboard "issue" is fixed, in time for feature freeze :)
<phillw> well done :)
<wxl> \o/
<wxl> "yes!"
<gilir> still looking for the oversize of alternate
<wxl> gilir: looking FOR or looking INTO?
<gilir> wxl, into
<phillw> it's very close. with feature freeze, I'm told that ubuntu should not keep adding stuff into them!
<wxl> k
<gilir> sorry, my english is worst when I'm tired :)
<gilir> phillw, same for us, we will focus on bug fixing after FF
<gilir> no more actions from previous meeting, I'll continue with the agenda
<gilir> #topic phillw - Weekly report - Update from QA meeting and team
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<wxl> brb need more coffee
<phillw> As with all teams, a mad rush for FF. There are no screaming bugs and we do now seem to have enough people interested in PPC to form https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/Testing/PPC
<StephenSmally> Hi guys, sorry i'm late
<phillw> I've queried about adding the ppc emulation onto KVM / qemu - but this needs some more research.
<phillw> that's all from QA
<gilir> thanks phillw , let us know if you have big issues when testing PPC
<gilir> #topic Unit193 - Weekly report - Update from IRC OP's team
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<Unit193> 1. There is confusion as to how someone gets unbanned, this was brought up after someone got unbanned. 2. We've swapped ubot2 out for ubottu now, so the bantracker will help keep track of bans, and package info should be working better. 3. I may be m
<Unit193> issing something, so if anyone has a comment?
<MrChrisDruif> There WAS confusion about unbanning, but this was cleared in the mailing-list afaik
<Unit193> Not quite it seems.
<Unit193> Questions? Comments?
<MrChrisDruif> What is still unclear then?
<Unit193> Well, not having official access to bantracker yet will make it harder, but everything else should be about good.
<Unit193> Though, it was ubot5, not ubot2.
<gilir> ok, thanks Unit193 :)
<MrChrisDruif> The Lubuntu ops decide if and when a person gets unbanned, so I'm certain about why there seems to be confusion about bans at all
<Unit193> Well, telling what the issue was with someone, or if they understand what went wrong.
<gilir> I'll go directly to dev team report, if you have comment on comm or support team, we will answer them at the end of the meeting
<MrChrisDruif> But now with ubottu should make this more clear for all the ops?
<Unit193> MrChrisDruif: Yes, once everything is finished with setting up.
<MrChrisDruif> Alright, no further questions ^_^
<gilir> we just need to be nice with the new bot ;)
<Unit193> Aye, no kicking her.
<MrChrisDruif> Ghehe
<MrChrisDruif> Only sweet-talk to her?
<MrChrisDruif> ;-)
<gilir> #topic gilir - Weekly report - Update from Devs teams
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<phillw> kicking ubottu would result in death !
<gilir> As you may know, Feature Freeze is very close
<MrChrisDruif> Yes, tomorrow!
<phillw> 24 hours and 40 minutes...
<gilir> after this, no new feature can be added, unless we add some documentation and justification for it
<gilir> and I don't like to write this :)
<gilir> we manage to update some components last week
<gilir> new lxkeymap with autostart support
<gilir> lxsession with clipboard
<MrChrisDruif> o/
<gilir> LSC with ratings
<gilir> lxpanel with a lot of bugfixes
<gilir> so if you are running precise, please test them :)
<gilir> especially, if you had bugs with lxpanel, please test again :)
<gilir> but don't worry, we can still fix bug after FF
<phillw> o/
<gilir> I think it's all, any questions ?
<MrChrisDruif> Yup
<kanliot> question time?
<kanliot> yes
<kanliot> in lubuntu precise, every new window gets maximized.  annoying at first, it gets worse and worse as you try and get work done.
<kanliot> it's a feature that should be removed from lubuntu because we aren't using the unity stuff
<phillw> is there any way that setting up full screen on launch of apps could be integrated, or are we too late for that now?
<gilir> kanliot, we added so people can test it :)
<MrChrisDruif> Not current release, but I just thought about it: 10.04 was supposedly a LTS release? What needs to be done to make a dot-release for it (as I think we haven't had one in all this time)
<leszek> hi
<MrChrisDruif> Aloha leszek
<kanliot> please take the maximized windows out..  it's horrible
<gilir> phillw, I may have a solution to have an option available to swith it on or off, but it may be short in time :(
<phillw> MrChrisDruif: we simply do not have enough people in dev to have LTS's
<phillw> gilir: I appreciate that time is short now!
<gilir> kanliot, you are not the only one who complain about it, we can still turn it off
<leszek> yeah for LTS we need maintainers that want to maintain and also patch pcmanfm, lxpanel and all other packages for 5 years
<leszek> thats a huge work
<MrChrisDruif> phillw; a dot-release is more than packaging I understand?
<gilir> MrChrisDruif, you mean dot-release for 10.04, or for 12.04, or both ?
<phillw> MrChrisDruif: as 10.04 was before adoption, it was never an LTS. We want to support it, as it is the last one with the old chip-set stuff.
<leszek> MrChrisDruif: sometimes you need to write patches or backport them, especially when a software isn't maintained in this version in upstream anymore
<MrChrisDruif> gilir; 10.04
<MrChrisDruif> As we've already decided that 12.04 won't be a LTS
<gilir> MrChrisDruif, considering the horrible work we done to maintain 10.04, I'm not sure it's a good idea
<gilir> MrChrisDruif, also, people can still install 10.04, and upgrade after
<gilir> it's the same result than a dot-release, you just dont have ISO already updated
<MrChrisDruif> So the work is already done, but it isn't "packaged" into a release/iso?
<Unit193> And LX stuff may not get in.
<phillw> gilir: I have a crazy idea, but if on installation of 10.04 as a minimal iso - would people be able to lock the kernel from exceeding their kernel limit but still get a newer lubuntu-desktop?
<gilir> MrChrisDruif, there is no ISO yes
<gilir> phillw, you mean to prevent the drop of the support of some CPU after 10.04 ?
<phillw> afaik, it is the dropping of cpu support as of 10.10 that is the issue.
<gilir> :)
<phillw> gilir: yes.
<leszek> phillw: hmm... an unofficial precise ISO with the 10.04 kernel ?
<gilir> phillw, unfortunatly no, because it's not only the kernel, every packages are affected
<phillw> leszek: a way of them getting the precise stuff, but retain their kernel.
<gilir> it's not the same issue than PAE
<leszek> yeah they could use the old kernel with the newer precise base, that should be possible
<phillw> gilir: okies... I did say it was a crazy idea. :P
<leszek> ah ok
<leszek> I only thought about PAE
<phillw> I was also only thinking about PAE.
<gilir> non-PAE are available on precise, so people can still upgrade from previous release
<leszek> ah nice :)
<phillw> from 10.04? That would be one mass of updates to go 10.04 --> 10.10 --> 11.04 --> 11.10 --> 12.04 !
<gilir> and about maximised by default, we can talk about it next week, and let people discuss on the mailing list about this
<gilir> phillw, I think there is an option for 10.04 to 12.04 directly
<gilir> any other question for devs ?
<phillw> gilir: I think that needs a 10.04.4 - which is relased for ubuntu, kubuntu and server tomorrow.
<gilir> #topic MrChrisDruif - Weekly report - Update from Docs team
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<wxl> gilir: is max by default now the plan??
<wxl> (i thought it was a bug)
<wxl> regardless of one's preference, if that's the intention, then that's fine
<gilir> wxl, under discussion, but can be drop later
<wxl> ok well someone intended it, so that's fine :D
<MrChrisDruif> Various "bugs" reported and dealt with, otherwise nothing to report.
<MrChrisDruif> Questions?
<gilir> thanks MrChrisDruif :)
<wxl> MrChrisDruif: the "game plan?"
<wxl> i might have missed it; i've been very busy personally lately
<MrChrisDruif> My personal keeps heavily interrupting any plans/time to work on anything like that.
<wxl> MrChrisDruif: well we can discuss this afterward but i think some direction would be good for the team as a whole. if you have some like quick notes or something i could probably embellish on them and get them up somewhere.
<MrChrisDruif> But if others from the Docs team have a great plan to implement, I'm mainly a POC (Point Of Contact)
<MrChrisDruif> A good team leader doesn't determine the route to go, but makes sure everyone on the team is going the same direction.
<phillw> wxl: MrChrisDruif I do have an update re: duplicated/ triplicated pages. I'll get something into a mail.
<wxl> phillw: thx nuff sed ;)
<MrChrisDruif> This means that if the general consensus is a certain idea, I'll try to keep everyone working on that idea
<MrChrisDruif> wxl; sed? ;-)
<wxl> MrChrisDruif: yeah it's direction that i'm referring to. like i wonder what the major issues are. what's the low hanging fruit, etc.?
<wxl> MrChrisDruif: s/sed/said/ ;)
<gilir> ok, let's continue :)
<gilir> Yorvyk is not here, let's move the item to next week
<MrChrisDruif> Low hanging fruit? Major obstacle is indeed the duplication and information on the wrong area (help on wiki and vice verse)
<gilir> StephenSmally, something to say about LSC, since it's released ? :)
<MrChrisDruif> gilir; shouldn't this be in a new topic?
<gilir> MrChrisDruif, it was a topic last week, now I don't think there is something to say :)
<gilir> let's move to the last item
<gilir> #topic wxl - dependencies of lubuntu-core
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<StephenSmally> Not much to say
<wxl> oh yeah forgot about that one
<gilir> wxl, I finally understand what you mean about this :)
<StephenSmally> It's out :-P
<StephenSmally> (Anyway, no one removed the old item in the agenda about LSC, i wasn't planning to talk about)
<wxl> gilir: i think this may be resolved if i read the mailing list correct in that it sounds like lubuntu-core is growing a bit to be a bit more "functional" and require the average user to be able to install it without having to do anything extra to get some basics going
<gilir> wxl, to clarify, I added a depend on some common packages for desktop meta-package
<wxl> although i think for some people it would be nice to have a totally stripped down version, but this is possible with net install, yes?
<MrChrisDruif> You mentioned it in the mailing-list already gilir
<gilir> wxl, yes, everything is possible with a net install :)
<gilir> MrChrisDruif, arf, sorry, my memory is not so good today :)
<wxl> gilir: right so we're done with this topic. MrChrisDruif/phillw -- have we already fixed the wiki on this subject?
<MrChrisDruif> I think so, but I'll update the minimal install with links to the corresponding packages.ubuntu.com pages
<phillw> wxl: 12.04 is not yet released, along with the three options out of the 5 that we expect people to wish to use.
<phillw> but it is not a major re-write :)
<wxl> phillw: ahh good point. we should put that on the todo list for later
<wxl> or perhaps just populate the wiki with the new info (maybe at the bottom) for those that are already testing
<MrChrisDruif> We do need to decide on which installations we might want to suggest on the minimial install page
<phillw> MrChrisDruif: I'd go for the 3.... full desktop, core and minimal core.
<phillw> doing a desktop with no-recoomends seems so wierd :P
<MrChrisDruif> phillw; yeah, but I'd go for core, minimal-desktop and desktop
<wxl> when in actuality there are 5 real options: core, minimal-core, desktop, minimal-desktop, and whatever you want with the netinstall
<phillw> MrChrisDruif: but we can discuss the 5 available options,
<wxl> i think we should explain them all because in reality people are giong to ask about them all at some point
<MrChrisDruif> Yup, seems like a mailing-list topic
<wxl> that will allow those people that aren't happy with just the standard install to just pick and choose what works for them
<wxl> of course standard install is desktop, so why talk about it? ;)
<gilir> we are closed to the end of the meeting, anything to add ?
<phillw> on the areas of comms-team.... a discussion is ongoing for a re-vamp of lubuntu.net on the general mailing list. For support team, it seems to be gelling and allowing people from the various support systems chat to each other. nothing else to really report on them both that I am aware of.
<gilir> #topic others topics
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<wxl> i will add re: comms that the facebook group is up to 52 members
<wxl> and growing
<wxl> discussions are active, especially with phillw's help ;)
<Unit193> What facebook group? There's quite a few now.
<MrChrisDruif> Lubuntu Official I think he means
<wxl> https://www.facebook.com/groups/lubuntu.official
<wxl> there is only "one" now
<phillw> I'm on them all... makes little difference to me :)
<kanliot> i talked to one of the team member doing the website.  he's doesn't knwo what is required from him
<wxl> unlike the others, this is one that we actually have control over
<phillw> wxl: I though lubuntu was under the control of Mario?
<kanliot> i think the guy is frustrated that he feels that he doesnt have control
<kanliot> i donno
<kanliot> IMHO could be fixed easily
<wxl> phillw: didn't think so-- from what i gathered
<phillw> one for the mailing list :)
<gilir> phillw, it should be
<kanliot>  i'll bring it up onthe mailing list thnx
<gilir> ok thanks everyone, it's time :)
<gilir> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Feb 15 21:04:09 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-02-15-20.03.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-02-15-20.03.html
<wxl> thx all
<phillw> oh, and thanks gilir for all the late nighta
<phillw> nights..
<leszek> n8 @ all
<phillw> you've really put some hours in since the house move :)
<moergaes_> bye everybody
<manhunter> hi
<manhunter> anyone there?
#ubuntu-meeting 2012-02-16
<h00k> .2
<charlie-tca> .4
<NCommander> #starteeting
<NCommander> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Feb 16 14:58:35 2012 UTC.  The chair is NCommander. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<ogra_> you are early today
<janimo`> hi
<infinity> o/
<NCommander> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM/Meeting/2012/20120216
<NCommander> #topic ActionItem Review
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: ActionItem Review
<NCommander> #topic rsalveti to follow with riku to see if chromium will get fixed
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: rsalveti to follow with riku to see if chromium will get fixed
<ogra_> looks like that was done
<infinity> Riku and micahg were discussing chromium earlier.
<infinity> Seems like it's nearly there.
<ogra_> we had an extensive discussion this morning
<mahmoh> o/
<ogra_> and while we are at fixing, 1000 hugs to janimo` for fixing libO in just a few days of work :)
<janimo`> ogasawara, well it was a few days work preceded by a few days of staring at the code dumbfounded
<ogra_> heh
<NCommander> yay janimo`
 * ogra_ hugs ogasawara ...
<infinity> ogra_: You've been upgraded to ogasawara!
<ogra_> she always steals my pings !
<janimo`> awesome!
<janimo`> ogra_, start lurking the kernel channel and steal some back
<NCommander> anyway, no rsajdok so moving on
<ogra_> janimo`, i'm resident there, she steals them there too
<NCommander> #topic Standing Items
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Standing Items
<NCommander> #topic http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-precise/ubuntu-arm.html
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-precise/ubuntu-arm.html
 * ogra_ guesses we need to postpone everything thats FF cfritical today 
<ogra_> *critical
<GrueMaster> Looks like the TODO items have taken a dip.
<infinity> I don't think any of my items will be blocked by FF.  Sadly.
 * ogra_ is still planning to fix the ubuntu-core DL page if i ever find out how the heck infinity manages to make make-web-indiciec being ignored
<NCommander> ogra_: deep voodoo
<ogra_> yeah
<ogra_> maple voodo :)
<infinity> :P
<infinity> We can talk later.
<infinity> I didn't realise you were having issues.
<NCommander> [topic] ARM Server Status (NCommander)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: ARM Server Status (NCommander)
<NCommander> linux-armadaxp exists
<ogra_> yeah, not today though
<infinity> It even installs.
<ogra_> .... i didnt shout yet since i want to find out myself first :)
<NCommander> working on the d-i portion, and working with cooloney to merge in the lastest bits from Marvell
<ogra_> ready today ?
<NCommander> We didn't quite make feature freeze withthe actual d-i bit but the rest should be there
<NCommander> except images tonight/tomrrow
<ogra_> ready tomorrow ? (else i need to notify about the FF exception in tomorrows release meeting)
<ogra_> ok
<NCommander> ogra_: probably tonight if everything goes as planned.If not,tomorrow
<NCommander> disclaimer
<ogra_> ok
<NCommander> this is for netboot. I do plan to try to build alternates but I don't know ifthey'll work right offthebat
<ogra_> if not tomorrow, please let me know
<NCommander> will do
<NCommander> [topic] Kernel Status (cooloney, ppisati)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Kernel Status (cooloney, ppisati)
<ppisati> new kernel release yesterday (1406.8)
<ppisati> with audio fixes
<GrueMaster> yea!
<ppisati> now i'm working on the "set mac address" from the cmdline
<ppisati> it's broken since natty
 * janimo` is currently building a new ac100 3.0.19 kernel and if all's well it is going to be uploaded soon. 
<ogra_> \o/
<ogra_> janimo`, i think -exp was merged yesterday into the stable branch btw
<GrueMaster> janimo`: Let me know when it gets in.
<janimo`> ogra_, yes, and two more sound related commits since yesterday
<janimo`> GrueMaster, sure
<ogra_> yup
<GrueMaster> I want to see if it fixes the start-r board.
<janimo`> GrueMaster, start-r ?
<infinity> Wrong kernel..
<janimo`> I may need extra config options if that is some USB dongle
<GrueMaster> New rev.
<janimo`> GrueMaster, ac100
<GrueMaster> Oh.
 * GrueMaster sips more coffee.
<ogra_> NCommander, move ?
<NCommander> [topic[ ARM Porting/FTBFS status (NCommander, janimo)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: [ ARM Porting/FTBFS status (NCommander, janimo)
<NCommander> bah ninjaed
 * NCommander hugs janimo` for libo
 * janimo` hugs NCommander 
<janimo`> for libo
<ogra_> humm ... upstart
<NCommander> and funeral services will be held for his sanity next thursday at 15:00 UTC.
<janimo`> I am debugging upstart now
<ogra_> ah, cool
<infinity> The upstart failure isn't arm-specific.
<janimo`> as in just fired up gdb. Not sure why it built on armel
<infinity> It takes several builds to beat the race on x86 buildds.
<NCommander> infinity: thatbug is STILL around?
<infinity> We've just been throwing it back until it sticks. :/
<NCommander> I remember keybuk working on that race when he was still here
<janimo`> infinity, so it is a bug but very subtle. throw it back I guess then :)
<infinity> janimo`: That said, arm-specific or not, the upstart devs might appreciate someone finding the problem.
<ogra_> infinity, well, let the awesome janimo` look at it :)
<infinity> janimo`: We can't get it to stick reliably on arm, that's the problem. :P
<janimo`> if we used systemd we could just blame Lennart. Now we have to do actual debugging, grumble
<ogra_> lol
<ogra_> now thats a reason for switching
<GrueMaster> heh
<ogra_> "because we can whine about lennart"
<NCommander> somehow, I don't think it would make ARM bugs vanish
<GrueMaster> I think slangasek was looking at this yesterday as well.  Saw a post of him mucking with cross-compiling in qemu.
<ogra_> NCommander, no, but we could just just blame him for them ;)
<janimo`> we should persuade Lennart to take over upstream upstart maintainership, then we can blame him without switching
<NCommander> ogra_: but we can blame Scott for upstart so whats the difference :-P
<ogra_> janimo`, awesome idea !
<infinity> vorlon's upload was meant to fix the test that still fails so, yeah, catching up with him might be good.
<ogra_> NCommander, we like scott
<NCommander> [action] janimo` to get Lennart to maintain upstart
<meetingology> ACTION: janimo` to get Lennart to maintain upstart
<NCommander> I figured you got libo fixed, that shouldn't be hard
<janimo`> hmm, you have apoint
<NCommander> anyway
<NCommander> [topic] ARM Image Status (ogra, NCommander)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: ARM Image Status (ogra, NCommander)
<ogra_> broken today
<NCommander> To soon be existing for arm server
<ogra_> thanks to compiz ftbfs
<ogra_> (across the board)
<janimo`> that compiz ftbfs seems like a QT issue
<ogra_> oh, and an announcement (seems to fit here)
<janimo`> the kde backend is the one failing
<ogra_> canonical will from today on support armhf
<ogra_> '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
<janimo`> \o/
<GrueMaster> WOOT!
<ogra_> and turn armel into community supported
<NCommander> so GrueMaster will still test it!
<infinity> I'm dropping armel+mx5 and armel+omap4 images today.
<ogra_> i guess infinity can tell us which images we still build for armel
<GrueMaster> Are we dropping image builds for armel?
<GrueMaster> YEA!
<ogra_> GrueMaster, not all
<infinity> We'll still build armel+omap and armel+ac100, and drop ac100 when nvidia gives us armhf drivers.
<janimo`> that means there are slots freed for live image testbuilds sometime soonish ?
<infinity> Ultimately, we should just be building armel+omap for smoketesting.
<infinity> janimo`: Not really.
<infinity> janimo`: It means we don't have to wait 16 hours for all the images to build.
<janimo`> infinity, you keep shattering my dreams
<ogra_> janimo`, there are tons of slots once infinity is done with the move to LP buildds for image builds
<NCommander> janimo`: he's good at that
<ogra_> but that will still take a bit
<janimo`> he has no sleep and dreams, so messes with others'
<infinity> Yes, yes, I'm a bad man.
<infinity> Moving on.
<ogra_> ++
<NCommander> [topic] QA Status (GrueMaster, mahmoh)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: QA Status (GrueMaster, mahmoh)
<GrueMaster> I wrote a few scripts to do server load testing.  One for the lamp stack, one for rabbitmq.
<GrueMaster> Also working on getting power meter data acquisition going.  Works on a panda so far.
<ogra_> nice
<ogra_> do you have any intel based comparison data ?
<GrueMaster> Tested daily images earlier this week, no sudden deaths.  Looking solid.
<ogra_> (i.e. from cking)
<GrueMaster> Unfortunately, it is just a digital amp meter.  Very hard to get power loads across multiple voltages.
<ogra_> ah, k
<GrueMaster> he is testing with a laptop.
<ogra_> right
<GrueMaster> And completely different loads.
<ogra_> k
<NCommander> anything else?
<NCommander> [topic] Linaro Updates (rsalveti)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Linaro Updates (rsalveti)
<ogra_> move
<NCommander> er
<GrueMaster> I put my arm server test system on a kill-a-watt device, but it barely registers.
<mahmoh> I ran some kernel burn in yesterday and pushed a PTS script to the workload branch - getting to WI today
<ogra_> oh. lots else :)
<NCommander> still no rsajdok
<NCommander> er
<NCommander> still no rsalveti
<NCommander> [topic] AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<ogra_> well, lets skip this then
<Riddell> janimo`: it seems gcc has got stricter again and some new errors are turning up, that compiz issue is one
<ogra_> though i would have loved to hear where compiz stands :(
<GrueMaster> janimo`: I'd like to get info on how you tested erlang & rabbitmq last cycle. after the meeting
<Riddell> janimo`: and so is digikam and something else
<janimo`> GrueMaster, ok
<janimo`> Riddell, ah, so a bug for Linaro gcc folks I guess?
<ogra_> or for doko .)
<Riddell> janimo`: it's probably not hard to work out the way to keep the compiler happy but it's hard for me with no arm hardware
<Riddell> janimo`: or just drop the kde compiz bits as a workaround
<Riddell> janimo`: only if they enjoy fixing c++ cast problems :)
<janimo`> Riddell, ok, we'll probably do that as a workaround since the alternative is fixing and uploading Qt
<GrueMaster> Riddell: I thought you had a panda?
<janimo`> which takes longer
<Riddell> janimo`: compiz is a "bug" in kdelibs not qt
<janimo`> Riddell, it's part of their job to fix C++ cast problems :)
<Riddell> GrueMaster: I do, yet to find time/knowledge to set it up
<infinity> janimo`: Fixing the errors seems saner than disabling features.
 * ogra_ agrees that compiz is a bug .... not only in kdelibs
<janimo`> infinity, sure unless fixing it means no images for weeks?
<GrueMaster> Riddell: Get with me offline, I can get you up and running in minutes.
<ogra_> yes, getting a panda up is a matter of a few minutes nowadays
<Riddell> GrueMaster: I will do next time I find some minutes
<ogra_> (plus download time)
<NCommander> anything else or can I close?
<ogra_> close
<NCommander> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Feb 16 15:33:03 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-02-16-14.58.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-02-16-14.58.html
<AlanBell> o/
<czajkowski> AlanBell: aloha
<dholbach> hey
<czajkowski> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Feb 16 17:02:26 2012 UTC.  The chair is czajkowski. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<czajkowski> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda
<czajkowski> is todays agenda
 * Pici waves
<czajkowski> who's here from the CC ?
 * dholbach is
<pleia2> o/
<Gwaihir> o/
<czajkowski> ok shall we start with the IRCC catch up ?
<czajkowski> #topic IRCC Catch up
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: IRCC Catch up
<czajkowski> aloha and welcome to the IRCC Catch up, thanks for coming along
<AlanBell> hiya
<czajkowski> who's here from the IRCC
<dholbach> hey - how are you all doing?
<AlanBell> not sure the time worked out for funkyHat and topyli
<AlanBell> we are doing great :)
<Pici> Yeah!
<czajkowski> AlanBell: Pici thanks for coming along
<czajkowski> it's pretty informal, just care to tell us what ye've been doing, anything we should know about, and what we can do to help
<AlanBell> we have had three productive team meetings so far
<Pici> We're organizing a bot-jam to get some requested features implemented in ubottu
<AlanBell> and made progress on the floodbot code which is now in a launchpad private repository
<pleia2> great
<czajkowski> thats good to hear
<AlanBell> the process of welcoming #lubuntu into the list of core channels is well underway with operator training starting soon
<pleia2> I'm glad to see the training system in place for the IRC team, some teams struggle with proper training once folks are appointed
<dholbach> what do you feel takes up the most time of the IRC Council right now?
<AlanBell> interesting question :)
<dholbach> is it more about starting discussion and keeping the discussions going or is it things like op/member approval and other governance process bits?
<dholbach> (I don't have a doubt you all are busy people. :-))
<Pici> Hmm.. Things are relatively quiet right now, but channel/operator organization and appeals tend to be the biggest timesinks.
<dholbach> is channel/operator organisation and appeals something which comes up in bursts or is it always busy like that?
<Pici> It comes in bursts.  Also just keeping an eye on how operators deal with issues, before they become something that might warrant a user's appeal.
<sabdfl> hello all, sorry for my tardiness
<czajkowski> Pici: AlanBell and how is the new council working out? Is there any way we the CC can help ?
<popey> sabdfl: http://paste.ubuntu.com/844650/ for catching up
<sabdfl> thanks popey
<AlanBell> sorry, got interrupted for a sec
<Pici> I think we're doing fine right now.  I know I've poked some CCers in our channel in the past for advice/questions, but nothing serious at this time.
<czajkowski> Pici: great stuff. and how goes the plan for the IRCC for the coming months?
<AlanBell> we have a bit of a list of task to organise around bots
<czajkowski> so is the main focus the sorting out of bots for the time being then ops?
<sabdfl> on the people front, what's the escalation process? i.e. how quickly does stuff land on the IRCC's desk when there's a dispute?
<czajkowski> AlanBell: Pici ?
<Pici> Beyond speaking to the operator who took action, the current appeals process asks a user to first drop into #ubuntu-ops if they have an issue.  If they still think that they have been treated unfairly, or do not agree with an operator, they are given information on how to contact the IRCC directly.
<Pici> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/AppealProcess
<Pici> There has been some discussion on using the bot to automatically provide that link to people who have been removed/banned/muted in our channels, but for now we provide that manually.
<Pici> Unfortunately, we can't stop people from going over our heads at the outset of a ban, some people think that their best course of action is to email sabdfl directly.  As far as I see from emails forwarded back our way, this doesn't happen that often though.
<sabdfl> i haven't had one of those for ages
<czajkowski> Pici: the same happens to the LC and they mail jono people dont always follow the process
<sabdfl> which is, i think, a good sign
<sabdfl> that people recognise the delegation of responsibility
<Pici> Agreed.
<sabdfl> can we tell which ops are around, and have some sort of random raw for a quick "review team" which cannot be gamed?
<sabdfl> i.e. cannot have an op do something knowing her friends will be on the review team?
<sabdfl> or does this just happen in #ubuntu-ops now, informally?
<AlanBell> resolution of issues is done in #ubuntu-ops which is publicly logged and open for everyone to review
<AlanBell> it isn't unheard of for people to want to discuss their ban with a different operator to the one that banned them, which is fine
<Pici> By way of our bots, we also track and store all bans made in our channels in a searchable web app, so we can be sure what op banned and which removed a given ban.
<AlanBell> escallated issues come to the IRCC, we have had only one this year (which was directed to sabdfl and arrived at us via Claire)
<AlanBell> are there any particular things the CC would like us to focus on?
<pleia2> is there anyone here from the broader IRC team who has any comments?
<pangolin> Just got here, not sure what the topic is though
<AlanBell> it is our IRCC checkup with the CC
<oCean> I'd like to say that I really like how the new IRCC is taking up responsibilities, and putting a real effort in getting things done. Things that have been on hold way too long
 * AlanBell notes the nice bot set the topic
<pangolin> ah, from a quick scroll back I see I am sorta the topic
<pleia2> thanks oCean :)
<czajkowski> oCean: good to hear
<dholbach> Do many IRC community members join the meetings? Are there many agenda items being added? Is there much discussion?
<Myrtti> well, at least I can say that christel's evil plan to assimilate all (present and retired) Ubuntu IRC ops seems to be going on well...
<AlanBell> there is lots of discussion dholbach, and lots of ops in the meeting
<dholbach> Myrtti, can you elaborate?
 * Myrtti points at her cloak
<AlanBell> dholbach: I have been attempting to keep the meetings running to time but there is no shortage of discussion points
<AlanBell> nice cloak Myrtti, careful it doesn't drag on the floor and get dirty
<dholbach> Myrtti, aha! :)
<dholbach> I personally am happy to see that training is happening and many more people are actively involved in discussing and making decisions and also that you are collectively working on the bots now.
<czajkowski> us there anything else people would like to add ?
<AlanBell> one thing I have been pondering is to do a training course every release cycle, so we have a regular intake of a batch of new operators
<dholbach> AlanBell, you could start at Ubuntu Open Week :)
<sabdfl> i have a sense of organisation now that hasn't existed in some time in the IRC world, which is really great to see
<czajkowski> sabdfl: +1
<AlanBell> dholbach: well we are starting with the #lubuntu intake
<czajkowski> it's really impressive to see folks, keep up the great work
<dholbach> yeah :)
<oCean> sabdfl: yes, and that pays off too: it's easier for others to get more and more involved
<AlanBell> another thing we will be doing in 3 months or so is filling the empty 5th seat on the IRCC
<Myrtti> I'm writing the basic ops guide at the moment, it has an extension to how to use the most awesome IRC client in the planet, we're setting a date when we can start having the classroom sessions for our new batch of core ops
<Myrtti> (before you ask, irssi)
 * AlanBell looks forward to learning of this irssi stuff, sounds interesting
<pleia2> thanks for coming :)
<sabdfl> this is all super. should we wrap and move on?
<dholbach> so thanks everyone in the IRC community for keeping things rolling nicely
<sabdfl> well done, IRCC, and thanks for the update
<AlanBell> thanks o/
<czajkowski> ok so moving on
<czajkowski> #topic PPA and CoC
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: PPA and CoC
<czajkowski> #link https://lists.launchpad.net/launchpad-dev/msg08934.html
<czajkowski> this was brought by lifeless on the dev mailing list
<sabdfl> i would prefer to:
<czajkowski> at present the CoC doesn;t covr malware uploads, and there isn;t anything in there to cover PPas
<sabdfl>  * make it possible to sign the CoC with a click-through
<popey> related to this is bug 926720
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 926720 in Launchpad itself "Users don't know a 'good' PPA from a 'bad' PPA" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/926720
<czajkowski> the questio bis is it useful to sign the CoC before uploading a PPA
<sabdfl>  * enfore it in the member-of-a-team case too
<sabdfl> yes it is
<sabdfl> and i think the CoC does cover malware
<dholbach> sabdfl, +1
<sabdfl> in the "be excellent to each other" is not "yay malware!" sense :)
<czajkowski> well it's not explicit but yes I do get your point
<ScottK> Also isn't PPA a Launchpad issue, not an Ubuntu issue?
<Myrtti> well, this PPA bug started actually on IRC, we're constantly having people in #ubuntu helping others by telling them to use a PPA
<czajkowski> not such a clean divide I think
<ScottK> IIRC the PPA ToS are clear on it.
<dholbach> arguably packages in PPAs are built for Ubuntu, for Ubuntu users
<czajkowski> dholbach: indeed
<ScottK> Ubuntu CoC can't apply to all Launchpad users.  It's much bigger than Ubuntu.
<dholbach> so I can see a pretty solid connection between PPAs and the CoC
<ScottK> It's been my understanding since PPAs were created that PPAs are built "on" Ubuntu.  They aren't part of the distro.
<sabdfl> ScottK, this is basically a ToS that we set for folk using a service Canonical made for Ubuntu developers
<ScottK> They aren't unrelated, but tons of stuff to which the CoC doesn't apply are closely related.
<sabdfl> i.e. we provide buildd's and archive space free, and wanted a low bar for agreement on good behaviour
<ScottK> PPAs are not a service for Ubuntu developers.  They are a service for any Launchpad user.
<sabdfl> CoC is a part of that
<sabdfl> the Ubuntu CoC is not just for members. It's a code of conduct that we want to be as widely used as possible, surely?
<ScottK> Right, but IIRC there's a specific ToS for PPA use that already covers this case.
<ScottK> I think if I'm an upstream who wants to make a PPA to provide development snapshots and updates to Ubuntu users via the PPA system, having to take on Ubuntu's social values might seem like a lot.
<sabdfl> would we not want to encourage our broader community to reference the CoC?
<sabdfl> for example, for comments on OMGU?
<ScottK> I think that's up to the people that run OMGU.
<sabdfl> well, you can do those things on your own hardware without having to agree it :)
<sabdfl> yes, it is, but why would we object?
<dholbach> surely, I didn't mean to get into a discussion about PPAs being part of Ubuntu - but I think it's reasonable for an uploader to agree on the CoC as part of offering Ubuntu packages, for Ubuntu users, of their software - to me it feels like the CoC strongly applies, and it's not just a ToS-we-already-had-around
<ScottK> We wouldn't.
<ScottK> I agree we want to encourage it.
<sabdfl> right. so why object to having it be a requirement for PPA uploading?
<czajkowski> sabdfl: so coming back to the mail from lifeless to the dev list, do you think the reply there is that yes we should be enforcing the signing of the CoC for PPA use?
<sabdfl> yes, i do :)
<czajkowski> ok
<ScottK> Encouraging and requiring aren't the same things.
<bkerensa> sabdfl: I know that Joey Sneddon does enforce the CoC to some degree as I have pointed out issues in comments before and they have quickly addressed them but I can pass it along
<czajkowski> so should we reply to lifeless mail suggesting this and the link to here or do we need to go further
<ScottK> I think it's a mistake to enforce the project's social values (as opposed to encouraging) on external parties, but I don't get a vote, so ...
<czajkowski> ok, any other comments before we move on
<czajkowski> we've limited time and one more topic
<czajkowski> #topic Launchpad Polls
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Launchpad Polls
<czajkowski> #link https://lists.launchpad.net/ubuntu-council-teams/msg00023.html
<sabdfl> ScottK, this is not Ubuntu enforcing it on a third party
<czajkowski> ops sorry sabdfl
<sabdfl> this is a third party (well, two-and-a-halfth party :) choosing it
<sabdfl> just the same as OMGU might
<czajkowski> so a discussion has come about regarding the life of polls on lp, at present we all know they don't work as well as we would hope, but they are at present a cost to LP with regards to maintenance and it's a feature they are looking to help people move away from
<czajkowski> or would encourage people to submit patches to help maintain them
<czajkowski> but all features are a cost even if they are not being used.
<pleia2> the LP folks haven't responded to my email explaining the reason we need them
<pleia2> I don't really know where we can go from here without a response
<czajkowski> pleia2: nods I know some teams use them, but I think from discussions I've read they something the lp team would like to remove as it's a cost to them.
<dholbach> is there a way how we could use CIVS polls instead with a "none of the above" vote?
<czajkowski> but I'll poke lp to reply to you
<pleia2> dholbach: ask dholbach for his magic scraping of email address script
<pleia2> ;)
<czajkowski> dholbach: what is the reson we just dont use CIVS at present ?
<pleia2> a lot of people don't have public addresses
<dholbach> I think we just need to agree on a way to do confirmation polls
<pleia2> (particularly on teams like ubuntu-women, where a lot of our members keep their addresses private)
<pleia2> I'll pastebin the email I sent, sec
<popey> The whole voting system in launchpad seems very cumbersome and prone to error on the part of the user.
<pleia2> http://paste.ubuntu.com/844712/
<dholbach> popey, yes
<popey> I've seen numerous polls screwed up as a result
<popey> restarted, abandoned, etc
<dholbach> perhaps we need an agreement that the LP team can hand out email addresses of the team to core governance boards
<dholbach> ... for purposes such as voting
<dholbach> I mean, if you know how to work the LP API you can get a lot of email addresses already anyway - but having that agreement would make things a lot cleaner and easier
<popey> I can see many people protesting or opting out of that
<czajkowski> nods
<popey> hard to do after the effect
<popey> I mean, people who have signed up to LP for ~years may protest at this change in policy. people get very funny about their email protection
<czajkowski> nods
<czajkowski> you could also argue if you want to vote you'll make your email available of course.
<dholbach> at the last CC election (all ubuntu members were mailed) we had somebody complain and Mark responded to that - there's just not any other way
<pleia2> yeah, I included a note about that in my paste above
<czajkowski> Perhaps to move forward I'll poke LP folks  to reply to pleia2 email
<pleia2> thanks czajkowski
<czajkowski> and also perhaps the CC should be looking at alternatives so we have a plan
<Gwaihir> Scott was talking about an open source alternative, but I think it was only for CIVS, with maybe U-SSO, we might ask him
<pleia2> we could do something like set up CIVS for everyone with public addresses and use "contact this team" to get an email to everyone saying "if you didn't get a ballot because your address is hidden, let us know"
<czajkowski> ok any other comments
<dholbach> no, I'm all set - we obviously need to keep this discussion going
<pleia2> the conversation is currently on ubuntu-council-teams
<czajkowski> perhaps we can take  it there the link is in the agenda
<czajkowski> I need to dash here
<czajkowski> #link https://lists.launchpad.net/ubuntu-council-teams/msg00023.html
<czajkowski> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Feb 16 18:06:26 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-02-16-17.02.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-02-16-17.02.html
<czajkowski> thanks folks for coming
<dholbach> thanks everyone
<Gwaihir> thank all!
<bkerensa> :)
#ubuntu-meeting 2012-02-17
<pleia2> hi folks, just trying to round up one board member to get quorum, we'll start shortly :)
<chilicui1> hi, ok, I'll stand by
<cyphermox> hopefully it shouldn't be too long
<lifeless> o/
<cyphermox> hey lifeless
<pleia2> ok great, let's go :)
<cyphermox> okie dokie!
<cyphermox> #startmeeting Americas Regional Membership Board
<meetingology> Meeting started Fri Feb 17 00:04:56 2012 UTC.  The chair is cyphermox. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Americas Regional Membership Board Meeting | Current topic:
<cyphermox> Hello and welcome to the Ubuntu Membership Review Board for the Americas meeting for February 16, 2012. The wiki page for the Review Board is available here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/RegionalBoards/Americas
<cyphermox> yay, my date thing worked.
<pleia2> :D
<cyphermox> We will attempt to get through all of the applicants that have added themselves to that list before today's meeting. If we are unable to make it through the entire list due to time constraints, then at the next meeting we will pick up where we left off.
<cyphermox> The format for the meeting is as follows: We will go through the list of applicants one by one, by date of application (FIFO).
<cyphermox> Each applicant should introduce themselves (1-5 sentences) and provide links to their Ubuntu Wiki page. After the introduction the members of the Membership Review Board will review the pages and, if needed, ask the applicant further questions.
<cyphermox> During this time it is encouraged for other members of the community to show their support for the applicant. Do not be alarmed if the members of the Membership Review Board are quiet during this time; they are most likely reading wiki/launchpad/forum/other pages and deciding how they are going to vote.
<cyphermox> When the board is ready to vote, they will publicly vote in the channel with either +1, 0, or -1 (for membership, abstain, and against membership, respectively). If the sum of those numbers is positive, then the applicant is now an official Ubuntu member! (feel free congratulate them!)
<cyphermox> #voters cyphermox Pendulum pleia2 beuno n0rman greg-g dinda nhandler
<meetingology> Warning: Nick not in channel: dinda
<meetingology> Current voters: Pendulum beuno cyphermox dinda greg-g n0rman nhandler pleia2
<cyphermox> Now, with any further ado, lets get started with the first applicant...
<cyphermox> is kdub here?
<cyphermox> apparently not, my completion failed
<cyphermox> what about caravena ?
<cyphermox> continuing throught the list...
<cyphermox> #subtopic Membership application for Chris Wayne (cwayne)
<cwayne> hi!
<cyphermox> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ChrisWayne
<cwayne> Okay everyone, my name is Chris Wayne (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ChrisWayne)
<cwayne> While I do quite a bit of work for Ubuntu within Canonical (QA'ing platforms that have gone on to ship in the millions around the world) I also contribute to the overall community on my own time
<pleia2> that's great to see :)
<cwayne> I frequent askubuntu answering questions that I'm able, as well as on reddit answering peoples questions, not only technical, but also questions about ubuntu in general
<cwayne> such as (whats coming in the next unity, how is 12.04 alpha looking?, etc)
<lifeless> I'm sorry about my adsl.
<cwayne> i also always use the latest dev release and log bugs, have been logging bugs on unity since maverick
<pleia2> nice
<cwayne> and lastly, i act as sort of an unofficial liason to other communities, such as helping and advocating ubuntu to many in #webos (and am even working on an Ubuntu One webos app on my own time :))
<cwayne> as well as convincing all my friends/acquantinces/family to switch to ubuntu (in fact many of them have :) )
<lifeless> and back, sorry, adsl faaaaail
<lifeless> telecom seem to hate my house midday at the moment
<cwayne> well i guess that's enough about me, unless there's any questions
<pleia2> thanks for having such a thorough wiki page
<lifeless> last I saw was 13:06 < meetingology> Current voters: Pendulum beuno cyphermox dinda greg-g n0rman nhandler pleia2
<cyphermox> lifeless: just a second
<lifeless> catching up via irclogs.u.c
<lifeless> which is out of date ><
<cyphermox> http://paste.ubuntu.com/845187/
<pleia2> lifeless: yeah, it only updates on the hour
<pleia2> cwayne: how do you feel about the current software developer to software center workflow? does it work positively for developers?
<cwayne> pleia2: honestly, i feel it could be more efficient
 * pleia2 nods
<cwayne> pleia2: i submitted an app (just a stupid pidgin emoticons theme type deal) and felt there was quite a delay before I heard anything (including whether or not the submission went through correctly)
<pleia2> good to know
<cwayne> pleia2: actually that reminds me, I've also reached out to developers (specifically of lenses) and tried to help them get their apps in the software center :)
<cyphermox> ah, I'll let somebody know about this :)
<pleia2> cwayne: yeah, I snagged that question via your wiki page, it's good to see people out there doing that
<cyphermox> stgraber: if this is still up your alley ^^
 * cwayne forgot that was on my page
<cyphermox> #vote Chris Wayne to obtain Ubuntu Membership
<meetingology> Please vote on: Chris Wayne to obtain Ubuntu Membership
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<pleia2> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from pleia2
<cyphermox> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from cyphermox
<Pendulum> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from Pendulum
<lifeless> heh, I missed the paste before, sorry.
<lifeless> so I'll +0 as an uniformed person, but that won't affect you :)
<lifeless> +0
<pleia2> lifeless: we can wait if you want to take a moment to read it
<lifeless> particularly if meetingology doesn't know I'm a voter yet
<lifeless> ^^
<cyphermox> #voters cyphermox Pendulum pleia2 beuno n0rman greg-g dinda nhandler lifeless
<meetingology> Current voters: Pendulum beuno cyphermox dinda greg-g lifeless n0rman nhandler pleia2
<lifeless> whats your askubuntu userid ?
<cwayne> lifeless: http://askubuntu.com/users/21657/chris-wayne
<lifeless> sure, +1
<lifeless> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from lifeless
<cyphermox> yay
<cyphermox> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: Chris Wayne to obtain Ubuntu Membership
<meetingology> Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<pleia2> congrats and welcome cwayne!
<cyphermox> congrats cwayne!
<cwayne> \o/ thank you pleia2!
<cwayne> thanks cyphermox :)
<roadmr> congrats cwayne!
<Pendulum> cwayne: congrats!
<chilicui1> congrats cwayne =)
<cyphermox> #subtopic Membership application for Daniel Manrique (roadmr)
<cwayne> thanks roadmr lifeless and Pendulum :)
<cyphermox> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DanielManrique
<roadmr> Hello!
<roadmr> I'm Daniel, a.k.a. roadmr (short for Roadmaster). My wiki page http://wiki.ubuntu.com/DanielManrique
<roadmr> I'm a long-time Linux user, I started using (and got involved with) Ubuntu a few years ago. I've been working for Canonical for a bit over a year, so I get to tinker with Ubuntu on a daily basis.
<roadmr> I try to help the project and community in various ways, such as answering questions, triaging and fixing bugs, translating, and anything I may be of assistance with. I'm also very involved with the Ubuntu Friendly community testing program and the related checkbox System Testing utility.
<pleia2> how is Ubuntu Friendly going?
<roadmr> pleia2: We see the most submissions right after release time, it's an asymptotic decrease
<roadmr> pleia2: we are looking into ways of making testing more interesting/fun, which we hope will make more test submissions come in over time
 * pleia2 nods
<roadmr> Back in the early days I was heavily into Linux evangelism; I scaled back over the years, but recently I started getting a bit more involved, which has been great, as I like to help a "new generation" of Ubuntu and Linux users get the most out of free software.
<pleia2> it's a great project, I'm really glad we have it now
<roadmr> So that's me! I'll be glad to answer any questions you may have.
<roadmr> pleia2: yes! there's still room for improvement, do expect some new things coming in 12.04 ;)
<pleia2> thanks for such a thorough wiki page
<cyphermox> #vote Daniel Manrique to obtain Ubuntu Membership
<meetingology> Please vote on: Daniel Manrique to obtain Ubuntu Membership
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<cyphermox> +1  keep it up!
<meetingology> +1  keep it up! received from cyphermox
<Pendulum> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from Pendulum
<pleia2> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from pleia2
<lifeless> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from lifeless
<cyphermox> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: Daniel Manrique to obtain Ubuntu Membership
<meetingology> Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<cyphermox> congratulations roadmr!
<chilicui1> yeeei roadmr =)
<Pendulum> congrats roadmr!
<roadmr> Awesome :D thanks!
<cwayne> hey congrats roadmr :)
<pleia2> congrats and welcome roadmr :)
<roadmr> thanks cwayne, pleia2, cyphermox, Pendulum! Gracias chilicui1 !
<cyphermox> #subtopic Membership application for Javier Lopez (chilicui1)
<cyphermox> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/~chilicuil
<chilicui1> hi there, my name is Javier Lopez, aka chilicuil, I've been using ubuntu for 6 years now
<chilicui1> I try to help when I can, notably when the average joe user (which in my opinion I'm part of it)
<chilicui1> ehh, I work as a sysadmin in high school, where we've set up ubuntu as the main os
<chilicui1> every 2 cicles I go crazy and give cd away to people in parks, zoo's or any public place
<pleia2> always nice to see more folks deploying ubuntu in schools :)
<chilicui1> I'm also organizating (not sure if it's the correct word) local UGJ
 * pleia2 is browsing the photos
<pleia2> very nice!
<pleia2> planning one this time too?
<cyphermox> indeed, this is great
<chilicui1> pleia2: yep =)
<pleia2> great!
<chilicui1> u can find me in #ubuntu-es where I have a possition as op, I try to help as much as i can
<chilicui1> u can see the rest in my blog and in the wiki
<pleia2> nice to see your work with Dia del Usuario Ubuntu too :)
<pleia2> hehe "Hug dholbach"
<chilicui1> yep, that's my main target in ubuntu
<cyphermox> chilicui1: can be arranged :)
<pleia2> hope you can make it up to a UDS soon (next one is in California)
<chilicui1> jojojo, I'd prefer to take it by suprise, }=)
<pleia2> lol
<chilicui1> pleia2: I'd like for I guess I wont make it this time, maybe the next one
<chilicui1> but*
 * pleia2 nods
<cyphermox> #vote chilicui1 to obtain Ubuntu Membership
<meetingology> Please vote on: chilicui1 to obtain Ubuntu Membership
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<pleia2> +1
<lifeless> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from pleia2
<meetingology> +1 received from lifeless
<cyphermox> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from cyphermox
<chilicui1> oWo
<chilicui1> T____T I'll record this day for a long time
<pleia2> :)
<pleia2> much deserved
<pleia2> Pendulum?
<Pendulum> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from Pendulum
<cyphermox> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: chilicui1 to obtain Ubuntu Membership
<meetingology> Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<pleia2> congrats, chilicui1! welcome!
<chilicui1> woowow, amaziiiiing!, thanks!
<Pendulum> chilicui1: congrats!
<roadmr> chilicui1: Congrats! Felicidades!
<chilicui1> roadmr: gracias ;)
<cyphermox> #subtopic Membership application for Paul Belanger (pabelanger)
<cyphermox> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PaulBelanger
<pabelanger> ohai!
<cyphermox> hey!
<cyphermox> a fellow canadian
<pabelanger> My name is Paul Belanger, as the link says.  My wiki page is located at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PaulBelanger
<pabelanger> No doubt about it
<pleia2> so, how good are you at debugging digium card problems? ;)
<pabelanger> I'm currently an open source developer for the Asterisk project.  My goal is to help maintain the asterisk packages within ubuntu.  I help out triaging issue and providing patches when I can.  Additionally I've been helping with 12.04 recently with nagios, dahdi, puppet and nsca
<pabelanger> pleia2: good, my back ground is telecommunications.  So looking at a debug log for that is not an issue
<pleia2> I don't actually know the status if asterisk in Ubuntu (I do use it in Debian)
<pabelanger> As from that, my next tasks are automation with puppet and openstack
<pabelanger> pleia2: I actually help tzafrir on the pkg-voip team
<pabelanger> Plus the obligatory helping people to start using Ubuntu for Desktop and Server environments
<pabelanger> I'm happy to answer any questions too
<pleia2> pabelanger: there don't happen to be any folks you've worked with in the Ubuntu community here, are there?
<pleia2> it would be nice to see some testimonials from them
<pabelanger> Mostly people in ubuntu-motu that helped me upload the packages
<pabelanger> sponsorship
<pabelanger> Guess I should have linked http://fridge.ubuntu.com/2012/02/16/ubuntu-12-04-development-update-14/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=ubuntu-12-04-development-update-14 to my wiki too, but only found that a few hours aog
<pabelanger> ago*
<pabelanger> Under the 'First timers!' section
<pleia2> cool
<cyphermox> oh, nice!
<pleia2> pabelanger: you clearly do a lot of really great work with open source (I use asterisk and nagios, so it's appreciated!) but I'd really like to see you move forward with involved with the Ubuntu-VoIP team and get some testimonials from developers you're working with in the Ubuntu community
<pabelanger> I'm not sure who else to get involved with, since I appear to be the only person that will triage the issues for asterisk / dahdi.
<broder> have you run into superm1 at all? i know he has a lot of blog posts about asterisk configuration; don't know whether he does any packaging maintenance
<pabelanger> Like you mentioned, the Ubuntu-voip teams seems to be small / no active.  So, I'm just trying to help get it started
<cyphermox> I'd have to agree to that, your involvement seems very development centric / related to bug triaage and such; so I'd possibly suggest working some more on that aspect, do a few more uploads and apply for Per-package upload rights before the Developer Membership Board.
<pleia2> (Developer Membership Board gets you Ubuntu Membership too)
<cyphermox> pabelanger: it doesn't have to be the Ubuntu-VoIP team, anyone can probably sponsor packages for you
<pabelanger> broder: sadly no.  Most of my currently business is providing asterisk solutions on Ubuntu so I would be interested in seeing his work
<cyphermox> so if you want to revive the ubuntu-voip team that's also great (we need good telephony)
<pabelanger> So, I should be applying to the Developer Membership Board first, before this board?
<pleia2> if you apply to the dev membership board you don't need to apply here
<pleia2> I'd suggest going that route, since we don't really have the capacity to properly judge your packaging contributions
<cyphermox> right. but they look for different things, but it seems like you've already well started involvement with teh Debian team, and some other uploads
<pabelanger> I see, figured getting Ubuntu Membership first before applying to Developer Membership Board would be the preferred route
<cyphermox> pabelanger: right
<pleia2> yeah, no need to do that, dev membership includes ubuntu membership so with that you're all good
<cyphermox> pabelanger: since we're in the same timezone feel free to ping me when you want if you have things to sponsor, I'll see how I can help (though that's normally not the kind of packages I focus on)
<pabelanger> Okay then, feel free to -1 me and I'll do the Development Membership route
<pabelanger> cyphermox: will do
<cyphermox> OTOH, if you're interested in doing differently focused work in the community, I don't think there are still Ubuntu Hours in Ottawa, and we in Ubuntu-QC have been itching for a reason to visit for a while :)
 * pabelanger nods
<cyphermox> pabelanger: in this particular case we don't need to vote
<pabelanger> I'm trying to review the asterisk user group, and start a openstack one too.  I'm sure we'll cross paths
<cyphermox> there are no other applicants and we're out of time so I think we'll end this meeting now
<pangolin> I +1 cyphermox' idea about visiting a ottawa UH
<cyphermox> pabelanger: awesome.
<cyphermox> pangolin: yeah, you'll clearly be coming with us to visit in the summer :)
<cyphermox> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Fri Feb 17 01:02:44 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-02-17-00.04.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-02-17-00.04.html
<pangolin> cyphermox: absolutely, plus there is a awesome waterpark on the way there :)
<pleia2> thanks everyone
<roadmr> thanks all!
<cyphermox> thanks all! :)
<cwayne> thanks!
<chilicuil> =)
<cyphermox> and I'm off, my computer isn't allowing me to click anything anymore :)
<roadmr> gnight all!
<Riddell> does the release team meeting start at 16:00 or 16:30?
<stgraber> Riddell: 16:00
 * skaet waves at Riddell and stgraber.
<stgraber> skaet: good morning
<jibel> good morning everyone
<skaet> good morning stgraber.  :)
<arosales> Hello
 * pitti waves
<skaet> hello everyone,   looks like we have quorum emerging.  :)
<skaet> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Fri Feb 17 16:00:05 2012 UTC.  The chair is skaet. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
 * skaet just deleted her intro remarks...
<skaet> hi everyone,  sorry about this.  cut/paste error on my part.
<skaet> I'll reconstruct them and paste at end.
<skaet> Agenda is in usual place
<skaet> Thanks to everyone for getting the tested features in on time for feature freeze.
<skaet> Upcoming Dates:
<skaet> - 2012/06/23 - UserInterfaceFreeze
<skaet> - 2012/06/23 - BetaFreeze at 2100 UTC
<skaet> - 2012/02/02 - Beta 1
<skaet> .
<skaet> If time permits (ie. we end less than an hour), there will be a discussion at the end on some restructuring of this meeting,   possibly using an open forum for Q&A rather than explicit round table.   But for today,  we'll continue with round table.
<skaet> ..
<skaet> [TOPIC] Hardware Certification team update - mlegris
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Hardware Certification team update - mlegris
<mlegris> 1 second please :)
<skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-February/000861.html
<mlegris> arg she beat me to it
<mlegris> so weekly testing hit a snag when we found a bug in bind9
<mlegris> any questions?
<mlegris> seeing none
<mlegris> ..
<skaet> mlegris,  not seeing the bind9 on your blocking list.   what's the bug number?
<mlegris> skaet: it should be on the list I sent out, let me grab it
<mlegris> bug 923685 Installing resolvconf causes loss of manually entered nameserver  information in resolv.conf
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 923685 in resolvconf (Ubuntu Precise) "Installing resolvconf causes loss of manually entered nameserver information in resolv.conf" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/923685
<skaet> Thanks mlegris
<mlegris> np :)
<skaet> [TOPIC] QA team update -  jibel
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: QA team update -  jibel
<skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-February/000858.html
<jibel> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-February/000858.html
<jibel> thanks
<skaet> :)
<jibel> (I messed up the date again sorry)
<stgraber> mlegris: the bind issue is actually https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/bind9/+bug/933723 (as noted in the last comment of 923685)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 933723 in bind9 (Ubuntu) "resolvconf creating bogus resolv.conf file" [Low,New]
<skaet> jibel,  np.  are all the images now working today after FF?
<cjwatson> the boot speed testing issue is essentially fixed but needs a debian-installer upload to rebuild images
<cjwatson> that one was my fault
<jibel> skaet, yes
<skaet> jibel,  :)
 * skaet sends big THANK YOU to the teams landing tested features!!
<skaet> [TOPIC] Security team Q&A - mdeslaur
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Security team Q&A - mdeslaur
<mdeslaur> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-February/000846.html
<mdeslaur> nothing further to report
<mdeslaur> any questions?
<mdeslaur> ..
<skaet> Thanks mdeslaur.
<skaet> :)
<mdeslaur> :)
<skaet> any FFes needed for AppArmor?
<skaet> (or have all the features landed now,  and its just bugs)
<mdeslaur> skaet: yes, we'll need a FFe for the kernel changes
<skaet> mdeslaur, ack.    thanks
<skaet> [TOPIC] Kernel team Q&A - ogasawara
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Kernel team Q&A - ogasawara
<ogasawara> [LINK] https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-February/000847.html
<ogasawara> I intend to upload our Beta-1 kernel today.  If there are any patches
<ogasawara> which need to land, submit them immediately.
<ogasawara> Questions?
<ogasawara> ..
<ogasawara> mdeslaur: jj pinged us to mention he hit a kitten killer with the apparmor patches so they'll be delayed.
<skaet> Thanks ogasawara!
<mdeslaur> ogasawara: ah, thanks
<mdeslaur> poor kitten :)
<skaet> any impact from the compiler change?
<ogasawara> skaet: none that I'm aware.  but I'll be kicking off test builds shortly.
<skaet> thanks
<skaet> [TOPIC] Foundations team Q&A - cjwatson
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Foundations team Q&A - cjwatson
<cjwatson> http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-precise/canonical-foundations.html
<cjwatson> Down pretty close to the trend line now.  We'll probably postpone quite a few Upstart-related work items, but aside from that the remaining items are either things that don't need to land in the archive or things that amount to bugs rather than feature work.
<cjwatson> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-February/000865.html
<cjwatson> Questions?
<cjwatson> ..
<arosales> o/
<skaet> yay,  re trend line.  :)
<cjwatson> arosales:
<arosales> cjwatson: lxc working better in your testing?
<cjwatson> arosales: you'd have to talk to stgraber about that, but I haven't heard complaints
<arosales> ok, I saw your update on new LXC with console/tty
<skaet> cjwatson,  any ETA on apport crash database FFE?
<arosales> good to know you haven't heard any large complaints though. :-)
<stgraber> arosales: working pretty well, uploading a new upstart now that'll unlock a udev upload fixing some more LXC issues, but after that, it should be really good
<stgraber> arosales: (the issue the udev fixes is the flood of udev event reaching the host when a container starts)
<cjwatson> skaet: I don't have a specific ETA at the moment; https://code.launchpad.net/~ev/apport/whoopsie/+merge/92753 has been clearly getting there apace and I think they're mostly cleaning up test breakage now
<cjwatson> skaet: the impression I had from ev was that it was likely to be days over the deadline rather than weeks
<arosales> stgraber: thanks for the info. Server team is doing some more work with OpenStack juju related to LXC
<skaet> thanks cjwatson.  :)  days is what I was hoping to hear.
<arosales> cjwatson: stgraber: thanks
<skaet> [TOPIC] Server team Q&A - arosales
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Server team Q&A - arosales
<pitti> argh, got disconnected
<pitti> right, I'm talkign to ev now
<arosales> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-February/000867.html
<pitti> still working out some regressions
<pitti> there are a few UI warts to shake out, but I'm ok with fixing them a bit later
<pitti> ETA mid next week
<arosales> Apologies for the late post. Good amount of effort around Openstack, and automated testing. Also spent some time tracking down the use case for OpenMPI.
<arosales> Any questions?
<arosales> ..
<skaet> Thanks arosales.  :)  /me looking at it now.
 * arosales apologizes again for the late post
<Daviey> Yeah, you are rubbish arosales :P
<skaet> re:  OpenMPI - ETA on FFE?
<arosales> totally :-/
<cjwatson> pitti: ah, thanks for the specifics
<arosales> skaet: Building right now. If not today (UK folks are working on it) then early next week.
<skaet> arosales,  coolio.   Thanks.  :)   farther away from beta freeze,  happier I am.  :)
<Daviey> There is a significant rbuild-depends right... that is the concern?
<arosales> skaet: We are working to keep the linkage of OpenMPI 1.5 to 1.4 deps to lower the risk.
<arosales> Daviey: right, thus we are trying to keep the linkage against 1.4
<skaet> thanks arosales,  good to know.
<skaet> [TOPIC] ARM team Q&A - ogra_
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: ARM team Q&A - ogra_
<ogra_> nothing to add to my mail report :)
<skaet> ogra_, congrats on making the switch to armhf!   good luck?
<ogra_> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-February/000863.html
<ogra_> btw :)
<skaet> :)
<pitti>  that means we should switch precise_probs and friends over to armhf now?
<pitti> and move armel to testing_ports, etc
<ogra_> thanks, we shouldnt need luck but vendors that rebuild their binary drivers ;)
<arosales> orga: on that note, since amrel is now community maintained are most significant packages ready for armhf (given PRV driver is still coming)?
<arosales> I guess that kind of answers it :-)
<ogra_> arosales, PVR is coming and i think rsalveti talks to TI this week about PVR for omap3 too
<ogra_> the only missing one is nvidia for the ac100 atm
<arosales> thats not a bad list at all
<skaet> ogra_,  :)  indeed.   any FFes looking likely (other than for the late drops from TI, etc.)?
<ogra_> TI promised the panda PVR driver for next week (just in time)
<skaet> :)
<arosales> ogra_: thanks for the info.
<ogra_> skaet, the d-i bits for armadaxp ... not surte that needs an FFe
<ogra_> NCommander promised to have them ready today, but i didnt see him around since he said that :)
<skaet> dbarth,  pitti, - any update on when GLES will be supported in compiz?
 * pitti doesn't know, sorry
<dbarth> skaet: i'm just talking with ogra
<ogra_> skaet, we are waiting for a patch from linaro
<dbarth> skaet: we're waiting for a linaro patch
<dbarth> right
<fabo2> it didn't happen as expected this week
<ogra_> iirc i saw it mentioned in fabo's report
<skaet> ogra_, re: armadaxp - ack.    GLES - okie.  :)
<skaet> thanks ogra_
<ogra_> linaro had their conference so they lag a bit ...
<ogra_> ..
<skaet> and on that note,  lets see if fabo's got some updates... ;)
<skaet> [TOPIC] Linaro team Q&A - fabo
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Linaro team Q&A - fabo
<fabo2> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-February/000866.html
<fabo2> sorry for missing last meeting and the late post
<fabo2> this monthly cycle is short due to Linaro Connect, ELC and ABS
<fabo2> less work has been delivered than usual
<skaet> thanks fabo2.   yeah, busy month for you.  :)
<fabo2> Graphics team wasn't able to fid time to tackle Compiz GLES patch as expected
<skaet> fabo2,  any compiler issues known around the ARMHF side that we may need to pick up fixes for?
<fabo2> it's re-scheduled for next week
 * Riddell hears KDE has a great GLES compositor
<fabo2> skaet: no issues in particular for armhf
<fabo2> doko was at Connect and I believe he pushed latest release
 * skaet nods
<fabo2> any questions?
<fabo2> ..
 * skaet apologizes for asking questions before the ..  :/
<skaet> Thanks fabo2!   I've asked mine.
<fabo2> otherwise, we started to ask vendors for armhf builds, same boat as ogra_
<fabo2> ..
 * skaet nods
<skaet> [TOPIC] Ubuntu One Team Q&A -  joshuahoover or ralsina
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu One Team Q&A -  joshuahoover or ralsina
<ralsina> skaet: and dobey, just in case ;-)
<ralsina> I am not sure about procedure. Should I explain our case a bit?
<skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-February/000851.html
<skaet> yes,  ralsina,  please explain your question.  :)   end with .. when you're finished.
<ralsina> ok.
<skaet> :)
<ralsina> basically, we are moving to a Qt-based control panel, because we are now cross-platform (ubuntu and windows, mac is upcoming).
<ralsina> So, to maximize usage ofour resources,we wanted to have the same codebase in all platforms. So, this cycle we are switchig to the Qt control panel on Ubuntu.
<ralsina> In order to do that and still be on the CD, we did a certain amount of work to make space for ourselves and our dependencies
<pitti> I assume you are aware of the problem that pyqt4 isn't on the ubuntu default install and it's not easy to add it?
<pitti> (as it's huge)
<ralsina> pitti: yes, I am aware, and it's not so huge anymore because dobey has split it
<Riddell> he has?
<ralsina> pitti: and we don't need all of it
<dobey> it's still pretty big
<Riddell> ScottK: ^^
<ralsina> Riddell: he is, let's say
<pitti> I thought s/has/meant to/
<dobey> Riddell: i did some work to split it up more
<dobey> Riddell: but it's not proposed yet
<Riddell> dobey: ok please keep me and ScottK informed, ScottK is the guy who usually packages it and keeps it in sync with debian
<ralsina> All things considered, I think we use about 8MB (right dobey?)
<dobey> Riddell: will do
<dobey> ralsina: yes
<Cimi> did you test the theming on it?
<ralsina> And that's about it, really. The question would be, what do we have to do, or has to be done, to stay in the CD.
<ralsina> ..
<Cimi> nobody poke me during the cycle
<Riddell> it'll need a FFe of course
<dobey> Cimi: you can install it now and check it if you like. the style is u1 branding though, not necessarily same as ubuntu
<ralsina> Cimi: we are still in the process of testing the theming, but we have our own branding guidelines for Ubuntu One
<Riddell> but generally I find it nice that the world is discovering Qt, only 15 years after I did :)
<ralsina> Riddell: same here ;-)
<Cimi> so basically, we will have one of the default apps that won't look consistent in Ubuntu?
<dobey> Cimi: we already have that.
<Riddell> Cimi: Qt should pick up the GTK theme
<dobey> Cimi: for varying definitions of 'consistency'
<ralsina> It does pick the GTK theme to some point
<Riddell> (unlike the opposide where GTK doesn't bother so our side has to implement it)
<Cimi> Riddell, and next cycle?
<Cimi> Riddell, when gtk+2 theme will be a bit deprecated?
<Cimi> there's no qgtkstyle for Gtk+ 3
<Riddell> Cimi: you mean Qt 5 support?  no idea yet but like the rest of Qt it's actively maintained
<Cimi> I have my concerns, just saying
<Riddell> Cimi: I know they're aware of it upstream
<ralsina> Cimi: then there will be a problem. But P is a LTS so it has 5 years of gtk2 theme left in it
<Cimi> ok
<Cimi> thanks for clarifying
<Riddell> worth pointing out your needs, Qt like hearing from Canonical, I can give you contacts if you want to
<Cimi> Riddell, I have the most solid contact in Qt regarding theming
<ralsina> Here is a bug about this problem and motivation for the changeto Qt: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntuone-control-panel/+bug/934270
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 934270 in ubuntuone-control-panel (Ubuntu) "We need to drop the current GTK+ UI in favor of the Qt UI" [Undecided,New]
<Cimi> Jens Bache Wiig, a friend of mine
<Cimi> he's the author of qgtkstyle, indeed
<skaet> dobey,  what is the actual space needs like after the split?
<Riddell> Cimi: yeah but it might benefit from the "key stakeholder companies liason" guy knowing too
<Cimi> Riddell, I heard from him that nobody is working on a qgtkstyle for gtk3
<Cimi> things might have changed though
<dobey> skaet: it will be somewhere between 7 and 8 M, but I am saying 8 to be safe. currently pyqt4 requires a lot more
<Cimi> but in case they didn't, we need to be aware that we might need to hire someone to work on that, if we want to support u1 at its bests
<Riddell> Cimi: so worth us going to the stakeholder contact
<dobey> as it pulls in other qt libs which aren't currently on CD
<Cimi> Riddell, dobey, ralsina thx. Let's keep in touch pls
<skaet> dobey,  thanks.   pitti,  will we be able to get close after the langpacks cleaned up?  or still going to be painful?
<ralsina> Cimi: I will. We at OLS tend to work in our little bubble a bit.  ;-)
<pitti> skaet: right now, with a langpack refresh, we should be just about in size
<skaet> thanks pitti.
<pitti> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/20120217/
<pitti> hmm
<pitti> seems we are still bigger than we should be
<pitti> need to check Tuesday
<pitti> perhaps old webkit is still on that image
 * skaet keeping fingers crossed.
<dobey> 18M over is pretty big. and i doubt langpack refresh will give us back 26M :-/
<dobey> pitti: looks like it still is
<nessita> hello all! I'm also Ubuntu One. May I ask if is there any chance to consider dropping some other packages from the CD, such as games, for example? I think that Ubuntu One adds an important value to Ubuntu, and I think that having it installed by default on CD is a key point to reaching new users...
<skaet> Thanks ralsina for bringing the topic up, and opening the discussion off.  Suspect more will continue now offline.  :)
<ralsina> skaet: ok then, let's do that :-)
<ralsina> ..
<pitti> dobey: ok, will check next Tuesday
<dobey> ok
<skaet> nessita,  if we're over the size limit,  there's going to be some discussions next week.    Hang out in #ubuntu-devel and #ubuntu-release.
<nessita> skaet: sure I will, thanks
<pitti> we sitll have the option of dropping python3
<pitti> but I'm not sure how happy foundations would be about that
<skaet> heh,  and on that note....
<skaet> [TOPIC] Desktop Team Q&A  - pitti
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Desktop Team Q&A  - pitti
<Cimi> I'm not that happy either
<pitti> it's treating one extra runtime against another one, both huge packages for one package (lsb-release vs. control-panel)
<pitti> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-February/000853.html
<pitti> unity 5.4 landed today at last
<skaet> :)
<pitti> and we are getting very close with the apport whoopsie changes
<pitti> nothing else to add
<pitti> (any more, discussions already happened)
<pitti> ..
<skaet> Thanks pitti. :)   Tuesday should be interesting.
<skaet> [TOPIC] Unity Framework Team Q&A - dbarth
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Unity Framework Team Q&A - dbarth
<dbarth> Report at the usual address: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopExperienceTeam/ReleaseStatus
<dbarth> essentially unity 5.4 now in precise, that's the big news for the day
<dbarth> and we're looking forward to next week for a set of last UI changes prior to the freeze
<dbarth> see the schedule page i added in the report
<dbarth> ..
 * skaet looking at the schedule...
<skaet> dbarth,   when are the FFe planned to land.   all next week?
<dbarth> skaet: HUD & LIM next week yes
<skaet> coverflow view?
<dbarth> as they were there but not quality ready
<dbarth> coverflow, i don't know
<dbarth> it's not very invasive, and is an optional view
<dbarth> but i'd rather get test before it's merged
 * skaet nods
<dbarth> the week after, otherwise it'll be too late in the cycle
<skaet> we'll be in beta freeze then,  so please coordinate that one landing carefully with the release team.
<dbarth> yup
<skaet> thanks dbarth!
<skaet> [TOPIC] Unity Services and Settings Team  Q&A - Cimi
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Unity Services and Settings Team  Q&A - Cimi
<Cimi> hI GUYS
<Cimi> [LINK] https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-February/000855.html
<Cimi> so, lots of releases for indicators
<Cimi> same releases and work on touch
<Cimi> but I'd like to put your attention to the FFe
<Cimi> I added them at the bottom of the mail
 * skaet appreciates them all being listed like that.   useful.  thanks.
<Cimi> :-)
<Cimi> so, questions from you?
<Cimi> especially, on those exceptions?
<skaet> thanks Cimi - yes,  when are they looking to land?
<skaet> :)
<Cimi> LIM together with unity
<Cimi> the two touch stuff next week as well
<Cimi> overlay scrollbars for accessibility maybe the week after, so again, in betafreeze
<Cimi> I need to check for the other two requests for indicator/gmenumodel
<Cimi> the UIFe at the bottom, is instead a really important feature
<Cimi> I could do it in time for the UIF, but I'd rather use my time to guide unity towards the UIF (as it's more risky), and spend some time the week afterwards to complete the required change for light-themes
<Cimi> is that fine for you?
<skaet> Thanks Cimi,  I'll follow up with you off line on the timings of some (beta freeze),  and we'll need to let the docs team know about the proposed UIFe...
<Cimi> skaet, sure, though that particular change won't affect docs
<Cimi> skaet, as it's a change that will apply on unfocused windows, so nothing will be subject to screenshots
<Cimi> ok, I'm done
<Cimi> thanks you all and congrats to all the team for the work done for the FF
<Cimi> ..
<Cimi> *teams
<skaet> Cimi,  :)  if its not going to affect the screen shots,  less of an issue.  :)
<skaet> thanks!
<Cimi> skaet, definitely not
<Cimi> yw, my pleasure
<skaet> [TOPIC] Kubuntu Team Q&A - Riddell
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Kubuntu Team Q&A - Riddell
<Riddell> hi
<Riddell> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-February/000860.html
<Riddell> also digikam 2.5 got in
<Riddell> kubuntu-active CDs yet to be made but I should get onto that next week, it's very much "tech preview" so nothing official
<Riddell> I'm the tech driver for beta 1
<Riddell> and my poor brain means I get in grumpy moods easily so beware :)
<Riddell> ..
<skaet> Thanks Riddell!  :)
<skaet> any FFe's on the horizon for Kubuntu?   and will Kubuntu-active CD make the beta 1 release?
<Riddell> I don't know of any FFe's we'll need but they usually turn up
<Riddell> Kubuntu-active CD depends if I can work out the changes to scripts needed but it's just adapting the old kubuntu-mobile bits so I expect so
<skaet> Thanks Riddell.
<skaet> [TOPIC] Edubuntu Team Q&A - stgraber
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Edubuntu Team Q&A - stgraber
 * stgraber waves
<stgraber> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-February/000849.html
<stgraber> just a quick note to say that Alkis has been doing a lot of bug triaging today, so all of ltsp/ldm bugs should now have been moved upstream when needed or otherwise updated
<stgraber> ..
<skaet> thanks stgraber!  :)   and thanks Alkis!
<skaet> stgraber,  and Edubuntu FFe's anticipated?
<skaet> *any
<stgraber> nope, though it's not impossible we may have to file some when refreshing epoptes or ltsp
<stgraber> though both should only get bugfix releases at this point
<skaet> goodness.   Thanks!
<stgraber> np
<stgraber> ..
<skaet> [TOPIC] Xubuntu Team Q&A - madnick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Xubuntu Team Q&A - madnick
<skaet> [TOPIC] Ubuntu Studio Team Q&A - scott-work
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Studio Team Q&A - scott-work
<skaet> [TOPIC] Lubuntu Team Q&A - gilir
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Lubuntu Team Q&A - gilir
<gilir> hi :)
<skaet> :)
<gilir> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-February/000862.html
<gilir> ..
<skaet> Thanks gilir.
 * skaet not seeing any FFe's know in the report... earlier the better though.  ;)
<skaet> [TOPIC] MOTU Team Q&A - tumbleweed or Laney
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: MOTU Team Q&A - tumbleweed or Laney
<tumbleweed> hi
<skaet> :)
<tumbleweed> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-February/000868.html (after the meeting started, sorry)
<tumbleweed> I forgot https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ebox/+bug/928501 thought
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 928501 in ebox (Ubuntu) "Precise will ship totally broken ebox packages" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<scott-work> \o
<tumbleweed> ..
<skaet> Thanks tumbleweed!   Nice to get the summary like that.  :D
<tumbleweed> well, there were >0 items to summarise :)
<skaet> Looking forward to the jam being scheduled.  :)
<skaet> so scott-work
<scott-work> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-February/000850.html
<skaet> s/so/go/  :)
<skaet> any questions for tumbleweed or scott-work ?
<scott-work> i believe it is worth noting that the lowlatency kernel was uploaded to new queue
<scott-work> other than that, nothing else critical
<scott-work> ..
<skaet> Thanks scott-work :)   any FFEs on the horizon?
<scott-work> i would expect so, maybe two
<skaet> ok,  will follow up with you offline about timings, etc.
<scott-work> copy that
<scott-work> ..
<skaet> [TOPIC] Any other business, comments,  questions?
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Any other business, comments,  questions?
<arosales> skaet: Is beta-1 testing now open
<skaet> This meeting has run late,  so I'll take my missing bits to the mail list,  and start the discussion there.
<skaet> arosales,  beta-1 testing will open when we hit beta freeze - right now use the daily images.
<arosales> roger that, thanks for moderating skaet
<skaet> Thanks mlegris, jibel, mdeslaur, ogaswara, cjwatson, arosales, ogra_, fabo2, pitti, dbarth, Cimi, gilir,  scott-work,  tumbleweed, Riddell, dobey, nessitta, ralsina
<skaet> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Fri Feb 17 17:23:25 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-02-17-16.00.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-02-17-16.00.html
<pitti> thanks everyone
<Cimi> thanks
<mdeslaur> thanks
#ubuntu-meeting 2012-02-18
<chris> hey people
<chris> is anybpdy here to  solve my problem
<Guest81765> ich denke nicht
<Guest81765> dann geh ich wieder
<Guest81765> bye bye
#ubuntu-meeting 2012-02-19
<cfhowlett> ubuntustudio meeting here?
<holstein> cfhowlett: we might just meet in the #ubuntustudio-devel channel informally today
<holstein> lots of folks in and out
<cfhowlett> holstein   tyvm
<astraljava> Yeah, might be more probable that way.
<len> is this the meeting?
<holstein> len: we are just going to hang in the dev channel i believe
#ubuntu-meeting 2013-02-11
<bdrung> !dmb-ping
<ubottu> bdrung, cody-somerville, Laney, micahg, barry, tumbleweed, stgraber: DMB ping
<bdrung> meeting in 9 minutes
<bdrung> 8
<stgraber> I'll be there
<tumbleweed> o/
<Laney> hello
 * barry waves
<bdrung> !dmb-ping
<bdrung> let's begin
<Laney> whooooooooooooooooo's chairing?
<bdrung> Laney: shut up :p
<bdrung> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Feb 11 14:02:09 2013 UTC.  The chair is bdrung. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<bdrung> #meetingtopic Developer Membership Board Meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Developer Membership Board Meeting Meeting | Current topic:
<bdrung> #topic Review of previous action items
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Developer Membership Board Meeting Meeting | Current topic:  Review of previous action items
<bdrung> #subtopic Iain to publish the Dynamic PPU Procedure on the wiki somewhere
<Laney> did
<bdrung> Laney: where?
<Laney> I updated ApplicationProcess and UbuntuDevelopers and mailed debian-derivatives
 * bdrung should subscribe to get notified about the wiki page changes.
<bdrung> thanks Laney.
<bdrung> #subtopic Micah to run the election, starting ASAP, ending on midnight 10th-11th Feb
<barry> right on cue :)
<bdrung> micahg_mobile: current topic: Micah to run the election, starting ASAP, ending on midnight 10th-11th Feb
<micahg_mobile> So, the election concluded, we should either vote our hand wave the results
<micahg_mobile> Or, not our
<Laney> we should vote to confirm the poll
<bdrung> please state the result
<stgraber> http://www.cs.cornell.edu/w8/~andru/cgi-perl/civs/results.pl?id=E_5b1837b9f3008750
<bdrung> #vote Do you confirm the DMB poll (new members: ScottK, stgraber, Laney, bdrung)?
<meetingology> Please vote on: Do you confirm the DMB poll (new members: ScottK, stgraber, Laney, bdrung)?
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<stgraber> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from stgraber
<micahg_mobile> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from micahg_mobile
<barry> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from barry
<bdrung> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from bdrung
<Laney> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from Laney
<tumbleweed> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from tumbleweed
<bdrung> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: Do you confirm the DMB poll (new members: ScottK, stgraber, Laney, bdrung)?
<meetingology> Votes for:6 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<bdrung> micahg: will you announce the result?
<micahg_mobile> Bdrung: can't do now, but can do this week sometime
<stgraber> I'll do the ACL changes and team membership renewals
<Laney> merci
<Laney> well done everyone
<micahg_mobile> Stgraber: I think that should wait until Wednesday
<stgraber> micahg_mobile: yeah, I'll wait for LP to tell me I expired, then I'll do them
<barry> micahg_mobile: thanks for conducting the election
<bdrung> #action micahg to announce the poll results
<meetingology> ACTION: micahg to announce the poll results
<bdrung> please do that until Thursday (when the new term starts)
<bdrung> #subtopic StÃ©phane to add Aron to a new input-methods packageset
<bdrung> stgraber: have you done it?
<stgraber> yep
<stgraber> new team, packageset and everything
<bdrung> thanks
<bdrung> #topic Kernel PPU team administration
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Developer Membership Board Meeting Meeting | Current topic:  Kernel PPU team administration
<bdrung> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel/Dev/UploadRights
<Laney> I'm in favour of this â I don't feel effective when screening kernel uploaders
<bdrung> ogasawara: ^
<Laney> we didn't ask them to be present
<Laney> does anyone have any concerns?
 * ogasawara peeks in anyways
<barry> Laney: i completely agree.  kernel is so specialized that i think we've effectively delegated to them in the past, even if not officially so.  let's make it official.
<bdrung> I'm in favour of this too. The kernel seems to different than 'normal' packages.
<tumbleweed> what barry said
<micahg_mobile> Looks fine
<stgraber> one small detail, should we require them to be Ubuntu Members?
<stgraber> otherwise kernel-uploaders will give them that right without any explicit Ubuntu Membership review
<ogasawara> I'd be fine with that requirement
<tumbleweed> what does the desktop team do there?
<barry> at least until we've separated those (see later agenda item :)
<tumbleweed> looks like nothing https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Developers
<tumbleweed> barry: well, this isn't PPU
<Laney> It gives you ubuntu-dev -> membership
<micahg_mobile> Desktop team has same problem, but in the case of the desktop team, sustained is much more likely in a visible form
<Laney> I suppose once you've been contributing enough it's fine to become a member too (is the thought)
<Laney> enough to join the desktop team that is
<tumbleweed> given the fairly heavy requirements for the kernel team, I'm happy with it implying membership as is
<Laney> yeah
<micahg_mobile> This should be ppu though for membership purposes
<micahg_mobile> I'm happy to discuss the ppu aspect later when we do the split
<Laney> vote?
<stgraber> ok, I'm happy keeping the kernel process similar to desktop's and I guess we'd grant them UCD anyway if they were to apply, so getting membership is fine
<bdrung> ogasawara: in your proposal, three Ack's are needed. Have you considered +3 instead? This gives the voting members three options: +1, +0 or -1.
<ogasawara> bdrung: I hadn't thought requiring +3 since with us it will be +1 or -1, none of that +0.  either you have our ack or you don't.
<bdrung> okay. let's vote
<bdrung> #vote Should the DMB delegate kernel upload rights to the kernel PPU team?
<meetingology> Please vote on: Should the DMB delegate kernel upload rights to the kernel PPU team?
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<stgraber> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from stgraber
<barry> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from barry
<micahg_mobile> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from micahg_mobile
<Laney> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from Laney
<bdrung> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from bdrung
<tumbleweed> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from tumbleweed
<bdrung> #endmeeting
<meetingology> Voting ended on: Should the DMB delegate kernel upload rights to the kernel PPU team?
<meetingology> Votes for:6 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Feb 11 14:30:12 2013 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-02-11-14.02.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-02-11-14.02.html
<bdrung> ogasawara: congrats.
<ogasawara> awesome, thanks!
<Laney> I'll add the new admins
<bdrung> ups
<Laney> heh
<Laney> new admins done
<Laney> set said good ship kernel
<Laney> sail
<bdrung> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Feb 11 14:31:46 2013 UTC.  The chair is bdrung. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<bdrung> #action Laney to do the paperwork for the kernel PPU team delegation
<meetingology> ACTION: Laney to do the paperwork for the kernel PPU team delegation
<bdrung> #meetingtopic Developer Membership Board
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Developer Membership Board Meeting | Current topic:
<micahg_mobile> Didn't we do that already?
<bdrung> #topic Ubuntu Contributing Developer Applications: Christopher Arges
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Developer Membership Board Meeting | Current topic:  Ubuntu Contributing Developer Applications: Christopher Arges
<arges> o/
<bdrung> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/christopherarges
<bdrung> micahg_mobile: just in case something's left.
<bdrung> arges: hi. can you introduce yourself?
<arges> ok
<tumbleweed> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/christopherarges/CoreDevApplication
<tumbleweed> ^ that's more useful
<arges> yea that's pretty much what I was going to type
<barry> arges: the link to your lp page on your application 404s.  what's your lp id?
<arges> so as an FYI, I started with a core-dev application, but have changed it to a UCD application
<arges> barry: launchpad.net/~arges
 * Laney finds signed advocacies amusing
<barry> arges: thanks.  when you get a chance, please update your wiki page
<Laney> arges: will we see you back applying for core-dev sometime soon?
<arges> barry: ack
<tumbleweed> Laney: esp because they only validate if you copy from teh source
<arges> Laney: yes,
<Laney> how are you finding the +1-maint stuff?
<arges> Laney: great. I've done +1 twice, and the second time it felt a lot more natural
<Laney> great
<arges> Learning quite a bit about debian packaging and the process. I think I finally felt confortable towards the end of my last plus one where I would create a debdiff and feel extermely confident this was upload material
 * Laney has no more to ask ;-)
<Laney> I was surprised when I saw you change your application - hope to see you come back soon
<tumbleweed> on that topic, any idea when you'll be back for core-dev?
<arges> Don't worry I will. : ) I'll get a few more uploads under my belt before then.
<tumbleweed> I see you've been regularly sponsored by a few other people whose arms you can twist for endosrements
<arges> tumbleweed: yup. I spoke with infinity about this, and he recommended I wait on the core-dev app which is primarily why I changed it
<arges> But I also only emailed 3 people, and should bug more people for my next app
<tumbleweed> yeah
<tumbleweed> no more questions from me
<stgraber> I'm ready to vote
<bdrung> arges: do you forward your fixes to upstream/Debian?
<arges> bdrung: absolutely
<arges> submittodebian is my friend
<tumbleweed> heh
 * Laney coughs
<Laney> at least it's got one friend
<bdrung> :)
<arges> heh
<bdrung> let's vote or does anyone have a remaining question?
<Laney> no, lets go
<bdrung> #vote Should Chris J Arges become Ubuntu Contributing Developer?
<meetingology> Please vote on: Should Chris J Arges become Ubuntu Contributing Developer?
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<Laney> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from Laney
<barry> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from barry
<bdrung> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from bdrung
<micahg_mobile> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from micahg_mobile
<stgraber> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from stgraber
<tumbleweed> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from tumbleweed
<bdrung> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: Should Chris J Arges become Ubuntu Contributing Developer?
<meetingology> Votes for:6 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<arges> thanks everybody
 * bdrung did it correctly this time. :)
<bdrung> arges: congrats.
<Laney> arges: well done
<stgraber> arges: congrats and see you soon for coredev!
<tumbleweed> arges: congrats indeed, and looking forward to your core-dev app
<barry> arges: congrats, and i echo tumbleweed's anticipation
<arges> yup. will do!
<bdrung> arges: i would like to see you to apply for core-dev soon with testimonials from non kernel devs too.
<arges> bdrung: yup. Agreed.
<bdrung> #topic MOTU Applications: Allison Randal
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Developer Membership Board Meeting | Current topic:  MOTU Applications: Allison Randal
<bdrung> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AllisonRandal/MOTU
<stgraber> wendar: ping
<bdrung> wendar: hi, please introduce yourself.
 * Laney loves http://www.fvwm.org/screenshots/desktops/
<Laney> ho hum
<stgraber> I pinged her in private 25min ago without a reply, so looks like she's not around :(
<bdrung> wake up, wendar
<Laney> 2 minutes left :P
<bdrung> The DMB has you.
<bdrung> okay. let's defer her application to the next meeting on 2013-02-25.
<stgraber> sounds good
<stgraber> it'll also be later in the day so should work better for her (IIRC she's on PST)
<bdrung> should we discuss the decoupling of the PPU from Ubuntu membership or end this meeting on time?
<stgraber> I'd prefer we end the meeting
<Laney> yeah
<Laney> plus micah is gone and heh loves this topic
<stgraber> ;)
<Laney> he
<bdrung> okay. thanks for coming. now i can use this command correctly:
<bdrung> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Feb 11 15:00:10 2013 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-02-11-14.31.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-02-11-14.31.html
<stgraber> bdrung: thanks for chairing!
<Laney> thanks for chairing
<bdrung> you're welcome.
<mdeslaur> \o
<jdstrand> hi!
<tyhicks> hello
<sarnold> hello
 * sbeattie o/
<jdstrand> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Feb 11 18:01:39 2013 UTC.  The chair is jdstrand. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<jjohansen> \o
<jdstrand> The meeting agenda can be found at:
<jdstrand> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Announcements
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Announcements
<jdstrand> Stefan Bader (smb) provided debdiffs for oneiric-raring for xen
<jdstrand> Christian Kuersteiner (ckuerste) provided debdiffs for oneiric-quantal for firebird2.5 (LP: #1115902)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1115902 in firebird2.5 (Ubuntu Raring) "NULL Pointer Denial of Service Vulnerability" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1115902
<jdstrand> Malcolm Scott (malc) provided a debdiff for precise for cfingerd (LP: #1104425)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1104425 in cfingerd (Debian) "SECURITY: remotely-exploitable buffer overflow in cfingerd's rfc1413 (ident) client" [Unknown,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1104425
<jdstrand> Your work is very much appreciated and will keep Ubuntu users secure. Great job and thanks! :)
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly stand-up report
<jdstrand> I'll go first
<jdstrand> I'm on community this week
<jdstrand> and patch piloting
<jdstrand> I've got openjdk that I am testing today and will most likely push tomorrow
<jdstrand> I've also got another pending update
<jdstrand> and quite a few meetings this week
<jdstrand> I'm not particularly hopeful, but if I have time, I look at the lxc mir
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: you're up
<mdeslaur> I'm in the happy place this week. I have a few updates pending which should go out tomorrow.
<mdeslaur> and am currently working on some more
<mdeslaur> the CVE list has gone up a bit, so I'll try and chainsaw my way through some of it this week.
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: fyi, I deferred nss for the time being
<mdeslaur> need to take a look at the work items also this weeks
<jdstrand> upstream is working on a fix, but nothing to do atm
<mdeslaur> jdstrand: cool, thanks
<mdeslaur> that's about it from me. sbeattie, you're next
<sbeattie> I'm once again focused on apparmor this week.
<sbeattie> Ever so gradually making progress on my work items related to that.
<sbeattie> That's pretty much it for me, tyhicks?
<mdeslaur> sbeattie: making any progress there?
<sbeattie> yeah, it's just slow.
<tyhicks> I have a short week
<mdeslaur> cool
<tyhicks> Off Thursday and Friday
<tyhicks> I should be focused on AppArmor primarily this week
<tyhicks> I want to make some changes to the dbus package in the dbus-dev PPA
<tyhicks> I still haven't uploaded my compiler warning fixes and I want to enable libaudit support now that audit is in main
<mdeslaur> do we have an eta on when we'll be pushing any of that to raring?
<tyhicks> jjohansen: Are you wanting to have the socket labeling work done firsT?
<jjohansen> tyhicks: before the apparmor bits hit main? Hrmm I think we should discuss that
<tyhicks> mdeslaur: That will be the biggest remaining chunk, I think, so we'll have to discuss a bit more
<mdeslaur> ok
<tyhicks> Then I'll try to get some work on in the kernel policy interface
<tyhicks> that's it for me
<tyhicks> jjohansen: you're up
<jjohansen> so I am working on apparmor again this week, I'll be continuing with the socket labeling work, and I have some fixes to the stacking exec path / label merging to do
<jjohansen> I'll also be getting together with tyhicks to look at the dbus bits to see what needs to be done before it is merged
<jjohansen> I think thats it from /me sarnold your up
<sarnold> I'm also on AppArmor duty this week, I'll be reviewing John's patches
<sarnold> his last patch flood was pretty steep :) so I expect it'll keep me occupied for a while
<sarnold> I'm also on triage this week
 * jjohansen will give sarnold another flood of patches this week, just to make sure he is drowning
<sarnold> but the last two weeks look like they had more than their share of security problems :) so I'm hoping for a quiet week :)
<sarnold> jjohansen: woo :)
 * sarnold <-- patchmonster nom nom nom
<jdstrand> :)
<mdeslaur> hehe
<sarnold> that's it for me, back to jdstrand
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Highlighted packages
<jdstrand> The Ubuntu Security team will highlight some community-supported packages that might be good candidates for updating and or triaging. If you would like to help Ubuntu and not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so.
<jdstrand> See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details and if you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-security. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved.
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/freeipa.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/libphp-jpgraph.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/zoneminder.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/obby.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/libsmi.html
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Miscellaneous and Questions
<jdstrand> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
<jdstrand> mdeslaur, sbeattie, tyhicks, jjohansen, sarnold: thanks!
<jdstrand> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Feb 11 18:22:16 2013 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-02-11-18.01.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-02-11-18.01.html
<jjohansen> thanks jdstrand
<tyhicks> thanks
<sarnold> thanks jdstrand :)
<sbeattie> jdstrand: thanks
<mdeslaur> thanks jdstrand
<jdstrand> np
#ubuntu-meeting 2013-02-12
<kyleN> SU invites sent
<Daviey> hey o/
<Daviey> zul: Looks like you ar ein the hot seat?
<jamespage> o/
<smoser> o/
<arosales> hello
<zul> crappers
<smb> \o
<Daviey> zul: is that Canadian for "Woot?"
<zul> Daviey:  its a west coast term
<zul> i guess we should start
<zul> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Feb 12 16:01:46 2013 UTC.  The chair is zul. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<zul> #topic Review ACTION points from previous meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<zul> so was there any action points from the previous meeting?
 * zul is a little unprepared
<jamespage> no
<zul> sweet
<smoser> well, there was one for me.
<smoser> to contact release team about alpha2
<smoser> which i have done.
<zul> smoser: sweet!
<jamespage> smoser: in which case I forgot to record it sorry
<zul> so next
<zul> #topic Raring Development
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Raring Development
<Daviey> smoser: do you want to drive this?
<smoser> yeah
<smoser> ok.
<smoser> http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-r-tracking-bug-tasks.html#server
<smoser> that list looks reasonably well handled.
<smoser> so, move on
<smoser> alpha2 is thursday.
<smoser> i believe that what we've agreed to do is to just tag cloud-images as alpha2
<smoser> that will largely involve utlemming and i.
<Daviey> (and a call for testing for ISO.)
<smoser> utlemming you can make sure that our candiddate (daily) builds have what is necessary?
<smoser> (yes, and call for testing ISO)
<smoser> and then , get the ISO tracker populated and tests recorded and the like
<smoser> (i can help utlemming on that)
<utlemming> smoser: yup. We're ready in the build infrastruture department
<smoser> we should send out a call for testing.
<smoser> any one want to volunteer for that?
<utlemming> smoser: and ISO tracking integration has been added already
<Daviey> smoser: i'll do that.
<smoser> ok. so just as long as we get stuff over there, and let the release team know the amis we want populated, i'm good with that.
<smoser> thank you Daviey
<smoser> #ACTION Daviey send request for testing
<meetingology> ACTION: Daviey send request for testing
<Daviey> roaksoax: How is MAAS looking in raring?
<smoser> ok, we'll skip that repsonse maybe for general discussion section roaksoax
<smoser> so, we're at alpha-2 in the cycle.
<smoser> feature freeze is not too far off (March 7)
<jamespage> sorry - I was distracting roaksoax elsewhere
<smoser> be aware of that in your work.
<smoser> #subtopic blueprints
<smoser> http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-raring/group/topic-raring-servercloud-overview.html
<roaksoax> Daviey: its looking good. Now with SRU approval we should be getting things done pretty quickly
<smoser> red are servercloud-r-openstack-ha, servercloud-r-openstack-grizzly, servercloud-r-image-access (smoser), servercloud-r-cloudarchive, servercloud-r-openstack-ubuntu-images
<smoser> and servercloud-r-apt-improvements.
<roaksoax> Daviey: so that will enable me to upload trunk to raring (since MAAS in raring is what is to be SRU'd)
<smoser> so, pelease, if you are in charge of one of those , please make some effort to get it into shape
<smoser> or to raise the fact that it might not be in good shape.
<smoser> anything else for this topic ?
<Daviey> -apt-improvements i fear will be postponed
<Daviey> rbasak: ^?
<smoser> i fear that indefinitely :-(
<hallyn> fwiw, user namespaces will not be sufficiently enabled in the raring kernel.  we will have a kernel in a ppa for ~ubuntu-lxc for raring, and r+1 will have fully enabled usernamespaces.
<hallyn> (this relates to a few items in the lxc blueprint)
<Daviey> hallyn: :(
<hallyn> oh it's ok, r+1 is so gonna rock
<Daviey> \o/
<hallyn> fully unprivileged creation and use of containers
<zul> as long as the next lts rocks
<hallyn> ooooh it will
<zul> anything else?
<smoser> hallyn, "fully unprivileged creation and use of containers" sounds crazy awesome.
<rbasak> I hope to have the apt code done for feature freeze, but I'm not sure it'll go into raring in time for review. But I'm hoping that it'll land when S opens at the latest
<smoser> rbasak, well, please remember that shoving it into R to be optionally enabled is quite preferable
<jamespage> zul: re the tracking report; I checked the package list
<rbasak> smoser: ack
<smoser> so that it makes it easier for people to test.
<jamespage> it looks OK - I'll ping round an email with how to make stuff appear on it.
<smoser> and doesn't hurt anything.
<rbasak> The catch is the desire for ABI compatibility in Debian
<zul> which package list?
<rbasak> Since I need to modify libapt slightly
<jamespage> zul: the list of packages that is maintained for the release tracking report (packages -> teams)
<zul> ah
<jamespage> (that is going to change to subs)
<zul> so i guess its time for a topic change
<zul> #topic Ubuntu Server Team Events
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Server Team Events
<zul> any upcoming events?
<zul> ODS and UDS will be here sooner to bite you on the bum
<Daviey> Yes, moving on :)
<arosales> scale11x upcoming
<arosales> MongoDB Austin this Friday :-)
<Daviey> be there or be relational
<zul> hah
 * jamespage will be relational then
<arosales> I'll be there giving a Juju talk around Juan's sharding blog
<jamespage> arosales: nice one
<Daviey> Oh nice!
<zul> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
<zul> hi hggdh you here?
<zul> if not
<zul> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb)
<smb> More or less was busy with Xen (two issues in Precise, security updates in its package, preparing related security updates in the kernel). There was also some bug smoser had for me but I believe that was something I was nothing I could help further and promptly forgot what that was... :/ Oh, autoloading of some  special net hw modules. I believe the net part has been at least added to some udebs (Precise?) So are there other questions?
<zul> hi smb are you here?
<smb> ..
<smb> zul, yes
<zul> smb:  silly cut and paste
<smb> zul, Nah, prewrite and press enter. :)
<zul> uh huh :)
<smoser> yes, smb helped me with bug 1115710 and (related)_ bug 1015339.
<ubottu> bug 1115710 in module-init-tools (Ubuntu Quantal) "Mellanox mlx4_en network driver is not automatically loaded" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1115710
<ubottu> bug 1015339 in linux (Ubuntu Quantal) "installer initrd missing kernel modules for Mellanox ConnectX HCA Ethernet" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1015339
<zul> anything else for smb and his prewrite awesomeoness?
<zul> ok then
<zul> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions regarding Ubuntu ARM Server (rbasak)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly Updates & Questions regarding Ubuntu ARM Server (rbasak)
<zul> i know rbasak is around
<zul> or his evil twin
<zul> who is french
<zul> rbasak: any update?
<rbasak> Sorry
<rbasak> Nothing new to report. Any questions for me?
<zul> if not
<zul> #topic Open Discussion
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Open Discussion
<zul> so anyone else has something on the agenda?
<pmatulis> yes
<zul> pmatulis: ?
<pmatulis> we need to improve the ubuntu server guide.  seems the way we're doing it now doesn't work
<pmatulis> i'm afraid it will become obsolete in a few cycles if things don't improve
<zul> pmatulis: why not put out a call to volunteers again on the ubuntu-server mailing list
<pmatulis> zul: i did, last week, no one responded
<rbasak> pmatulis: what do you propose?
<pmatulis> rbasak: i've tried to create ways to focus on the guide
<pmatulis> but it doesn't seem to be bearing any fruit
<pmatulis> today i created a special team with an associated mailing list.  which i hope to use to awaken prior contributors every cycle
<pmatulis> fyi, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/SystemDocumentation/UbuntuServerGuide
<hallyn> test team has worked hard to try and force test additions corresponding to each (UDS) feature item and each SRU item, perhaps we can do something analogous where we collect server guide updates in response to each?
<hallyn> don't require a server guide update for each, just collect items,
<hallyn> which then a team can go over (and contact the item author if needed)
<hallyn> <crickets>
<hallyn> i'd say such an undertaking could stand to have a UDS discussion
<jamespage> indeed
<pmatulis> hallyn: that's an idea, link guide contributions to UDS discussions
<hallyn> (in the meantime, a simple stern "make sure you update server guide for anything you've been working on")
<hallyn> pmatulis: even put them in the blueprints,
<pmatulis> right
<hallyn> next to the release notes maybe.
<rbasak> Perhaps we should have a standard "upgrade server guide" in every blueprint where it makes sense
<rbasak> update server guide that is
<jamespage> I think making it a milestoned work item makes alot of sense
<jamespage> then you won't get i***ts like me updating stuff a week before release cause its wrong
<jamespage> OK _ I'll take an action to add something to the blueprint template - basically a check to see if docs need updating
<hallyn> where would it fit though?  I don't think that
<hallyn> having one week where we try to remember the last six months' worth of changes works
<hallyn> hm yeah, that's a good start
<jamespage> well a milestone would indicate the point at which document updates must have been made by
<jamespage> not when you actually do the,
<jamespage> :-)
<jamespage> pmatulis: I'm right in saying there is a cutoff?
<hallyn> haha
<jamespage> zul: care to action me todo that?
<pmatulis> jamespage: yes, there is actually a 'string freeze'
<zul> jamespage:  sure
<jamespage> thats the one
<zul> #action jamespage to milesone documentation updates
<meetingology> ACTION: jamespage to milesone documentation updates
<zul> anything else?
<zul> #topic Announce next meeting date, time and chair
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Announce next meeting date, time and chair
<zul> next week, same time, same place and someone else will be the chair
<zul> whee!
<zul> thanks for coming
<zul> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Feb 12 16:41:00 2013 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-02-12-16.01.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-02-12-16.01.html
<jamespage> thanks zul
<roaksoax> o/
<arosales> zul thanks for chairing
<Daviey> thanks zul o/
<jsalisbury> #startmeeting
<jsalisbury> ##
<jsalisbury> ## This is the Ubuntu Kernel Team weekly status meeting.
<jsalisbury> ##
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Feb 12 17:00:15 2013 UTC.  The chair is jsalisbury. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/raring
<jsalisbury> # Meeting Etiquette
<jsalisbury> #
<jsalisbury> # NOTE: '..' indicates that you are finished with your input.
<jsalisbury> #       'o/' indicates you have something to add (please wait until you are recognized)
<jsalisbury> Roll Call for Ubuntu Kernel Weekly Status Meeting
<ppisati> o/
<sconklin> o/
<herton> o/
<henrix> o/
<sforshee> o/
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] ARM Status (ppisati)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: ARM Status (ppisati)
<ppisati> R/master: still working on last week's "BUG: scheduling while atomic" bug in
<ppisati> the ipv6 stack - nothing new to report.
<ppisati> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
<jsalisbury> Release metrics and incoming bug data can be reviewed at the following link:
<jsalisbury> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/kt-meeting.txt
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
<jsalisbury> ..
<jsalisbury> I will post updates from ogasawara
<jsalisbury> TOPIC] Milestone Targeted Work Items (ogasawara)
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Milestone Targeted Work Items (ogasawara)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Milestone Targeted Work Items (ogasawara)
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://launchpad.net/~canonical-kernel-distro-team/+upcomingwork
<jsalisbury> || apw         || hardware-r-kernel-config-review       || 6 work items ||
<jsalisbury> ||             || hardware-r-delta-review               || 3 work items ||
<jsalisbury> || ppisati     || hardware-r-kernel-config-review       || 1 work item  ||
<jsalisbury> || rtg         || hardware-r-delta-review               || 1 work item  ||
<jsalisbury> || smb         || hardware-r-kernel-misc                || 2 work items ||
<jsalisbury> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Raring Development Kernel (ogasawara)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Raring Development Kernel (ogasawara)
<jsalisbury> We have rebased the Raring kernel to the latest v3.8-rc7 upstream
<jsalisbury> kernel and uploaded.  Perf has also been re-enabled with the latest
<jsalisbury> upload.
<jsalisbury> Important upcoming dates:
<jsalisbury>  * Raring:
<jsalisbury>   * Mon Feb 18 - 13.04 Month 4 Milestone (~1 week)
<jsalisbury>  * Precise:
<jsalisbury>   * Thu Feb 14 - 12.04.2 Release (2 days)
<jsalisbury> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: CVE's (henrix)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: CVE's (henrix)
<henrix> Currently we have 29 CVEs on our radar, with 1 CVE added and 3 CVEs retired this week.
<henrix> See the CVE matrix for the current list:
<henrix> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/cve/pkg/ALL-linux.html
<henrix> Overall the backlog has decreased slightly this week:
<henrix> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/status/cve-metrics.txt
<henrix> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/cve/pkg/CVE-linux.txt
<henrix> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Quantal/Precise/Oneiric/Lucid/Hardy (bjf/herton/henrix)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Quantal/Precise/Oneiric/Lucid/Hardy (bjf/herton/henrix)
<henrix> Here is the status for the main kernels, until today (February 12):
<henrix>  * Hardy - Nothing in this cycle
<henrix>  * Lucid - In Testing; 1 CVE; (2 commits)
<henrix>  * Oneiric - In Verification; 3 CVEs; 4 upstream stable release(s); (154 commits)
<henrix>  * Precise - In Verification; 0 CVEs; 2 upstream stable release(s); (222 commits)
<henrix>  * Quantal - In Verification; 0 CVEs; 2 upstream stable release(s); (375 commits)
<henrix> Current opened tracking bugs details:
<henrix>  * http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/kernel-sru-workflow.html
<henrix> For SRUs, SRU report is a good source of information:
<henrix>  * http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/sru-report.html
<henrix> Future stable cadence cycles:
<henrix>  * https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RaringRingtail/ReleaseInterlock
<henrix> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
<jsalisbury> Thanks everyone
<jsalisbury> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Feb 12 17:04:31 2013 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-02-12-17.00.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-02-12-17.00.html
#ubuntu-meeting 2013-02-13
 * slangasek waves
<ogra_> moop
<slangasek> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Wed Feb 13 16:03:46 2013 UTC.  The chair is slangasek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
 * stgraber waves
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Lightning round
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Lightning round
<ogra_> hello ?
<slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e barry doko stgraber jodh ev bdmurray slangasek ogra cjwatson xnox stokachu)
<slangasek> ev xnox stokachu stgraber barry doko cjwatson bdmurray jodh slangasek ogra
<slangasek> and no ev today, so xnox:
<slangasek> xnox:
<slangasek> is my network broken again? :)
<xnox> * fix fai with mdadm bug #1008250
<xnox> * Path pilot tuesday
<xnox> * Uploaded lvm2 sru for precise bug #833368
<xnox> * Uploaded new release of btrfs-tools
<xnox> * Work with U1 team on ubiquity design changes / plugins
<xnox> * Completing mdadm merge & plymouth integration
<ubottu> bug 1008250 in fai (Ubuntu Quantal) "removed mdadm-startall is still used in fai-setup-storage" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1008250
<xnox>   - btw plymouth ubuntu-logo theme is missing ask-question callbacks
<ubottu> bug 833368 in lvm2 (Ubuntu Precise) "clustered lvm commands fail with "activation/monitoring=0 is incompatible with clustered Volume Group" error" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/833368
<xnox>     fixing that (patch was proposed on lp by community)
<xnox> * Postponed a few specs / WI (ubiquity raid work, wubi, swiftmirror)
<xnox> * Working on nexus7 & ubiquity bugs (disabling rotation, displaying background)
<xnox> ..
<stgraber> stokachu: around?
<stgraber> alright, my turn then
<stgraber> Feature work:
<stgraber>  - Upstart (BLUEPRINT: foundations-r-upstart-user-session-enhancements)
<stgraber>   - Prepare a first build including the user session changes.
<stgraber>   - Found a gcc bug which was tracked down by doko, still working on the details.
<stgraber>   - Should have a refreshed package later today.
<stgraber>  - Container (BLUEPRINT: servercloud-r-lxc)
<stgraber>   - A few more reviews.
<stgraber>   - Tested and sent pull request for 0.9~alpha3
<stgraber>   - Started preparing the packaging for 0.9~alpha3 in raring.
<stgraber>  - Networking (BLUEPRINT: foundations-r-networking)
<stgraber>   - Still waiting on test results for the infiniband support, no other progress there.
<stgraber>   - Opened an RT ticket to get update on IPv6 support in the DC.
<stgraber>   - Asked for two extra test SIM cards for dual-stack 3G networking.
<stgraber> Other work:
<stgraber>  - Networking
<stgraber>   - Spent quite a bit of time getting Ofono to work with NetworkManager, slowly getting there.
<stgraber>     (glib + gobject + dbus in NM can be the source of rather bad headaches...)
<stgraber>  - QATracker
<stgraber>   - Prepare for 12.04.2 and alpha-2, looked into a bug I'll need to fix pretty soon (related to testcase and testsuite deprecation).
<stgraber>  - UEFI
<stgraber>   - Tested precise UEFI desktop, all looked good.
<stgraber>   - Bricked my laptop yesterday after a kernel panic ... waiting for replacement (looks like it may be some corrupted/full nvram issue as the panic is stored in nvram nowadays)
<stgraber> TODO:
<stgraber>  - Prepare an update upstart test package.
<stgraber>  - Continue the ofono/NM work.
<stgraber>  - Try to finish any LXC feature work for this cycle (1 item left).
<stgraber> (DONE)
<barry> bug 1112496; bug 1077092; bug 1077087; filed bug 1118815; looked at bug 1103024
<ubottu> bug 1112496 in python-imaging (Ubuntu Raring) "python-imaging broken in raring" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1112496
<ubottu> bug 1077092 in Ubuntu One storage protocol "Switch from python-oauth to python-oauthlib" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1077092
<ubottu> bug 1077087 in Ubuntu Single Sign On Client "Switch from python-oauth to python-oauthlib" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1077087
<ubottu> bug 1118815 in MAAS "Remove python-oauth from the archive" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1118815
<ubottu> bug 1103024 in apturl (Ubuntu) "apturl-gtk crashed with TypeError in _on_finished(): 5 parameters needed for signal action-done; 3 given" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1103024
<barry> btw, 1118815 has lots of bug tasks for everything in the archive still dep'ing python-oauth
<slangasek> xnox: yeah, saw the ask-question escalation; I should be able to get that implemented this week
<barry> foundations-r-python3-oauth: done (finally!) though my status page seems to not agree (possibly because of the linked new bugs?)
<slangasek> xnox: although, shouldn't this be a yes/no question?
<barry> foundations-r-python33: done
<barry> foundations-r-python-versions: ongoing of course, but good progress on work items.  seeing if i can reboot the xapian port effort since it's now blocking s-i and s-c.  dealing with upstream trunk build issues :(  filed bug 1124208 to track hplip port.
<ubottu> bug 1124208 in HPLIP "Port to Python 3" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1124208
<barry> done
<doko> - next round of openjdk security updates (and the next ones announced for Feb 19 ...)
<doko> - GCC update, which introduced the following issue ...
<doko> - track down a GCC issue (LP: #1123588), still needs a test case, help needed.
<doko> - icedtea-web update for 12.04.
<doko> - some syncs and merges
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1123588 in gcc " [4.7 Regression] wrong code with the fix for PR53844" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1123588
<xnox> barry: s-i as in ....?
<barry> xnox: s-i == session-installer
<xnox> ack.
<doko> (done)
<cjwatson> Mostly still working on 12.04.2.  Nearly done but there are a few remaining glitches to sort out and a batch of respins (see #ubuntu-release).
<cjwatson> phased-updates: Sorted out review comments on https://code.launchpad.net/~cjwatson/launchpad/bpph-phase/+merge/144154 and pushed up a set of changes for re-review.
<ogra_> barry, thats a bashism !
<cjwatson> Future release planning.
<cjwatson> Learned how to update *-cross-toolchain-base (sort of), and did so for eglibc 2.17.
<cjwatson> Various other cross-building fixes, including multiarching check.
<cjwatson> Fixed lots of bugs involving outdated config.guess/config.sub and the like.
<cjwatson> ..
<xnox> ogra_: it's pythonic
<ogra_> pfft
<barry> :)
<bdmurray> Work items I'm working on:
<xnox> ogra_: also \!
<bdmurray> create and update a BucketSystems column family to keep track of unique systems in a bucket: INPROGRESS
<bdmurray> Import developer to package and developer to team mappings and filter the default view on errors.ubuntu.com to problems the developer and their team are responsible for: INPROGRESS
<bdmurray> auto comment on bugs needing verification (indicate that it needs to happen in the next 15 days) at some interval (3 months): INPROGRESS
<bdmurray> other work
<slangasek> barry: linked new bugs will be reported as WIs, yes :)  Do we need to postpone those?
<barry> slangasek: yes
<bdmurray> in daisy renamed user_token system_token as it is specific for each system not each user
<bdmurray> research into next steps with bucketsystems branch
<cjwatson> bdmurray: sorry you're still blocked on me for phased-updates - the review feedback turned out to be a bit complex ...
<bdmurray> modified bucketsystems code by moving some of it to oopsrepository
<bdmurray> created oops-repository merge proposal
<bdmurray> created daisy merge proposal for bucketsystems work
<bdmurray> updated oops-repository merge proposal per evan's feedback
<bdmurray> fixed get_subscribed_packages in errors to fetch more than 75 results
<barry> slangasek: though i hate to postpone the bugs but i guess if we get volunteers they can tweak the statuses
<bdmurray> research into first_version appearing in first couple of columns of bucketversions CF
<bdmurray> created and tested a cassandra column family for caching the package to team mapping
<bdmurray> submitted errors branch that utilizes userbinarypackages cf
<bdmurray> submitted daisy branch that creates and populates userbinarypackages cf
<bdmurray> research into quantity of bugs tagged regression-update
<bdmurray> review of teams mapped to packages in the package to team mapping spreadsheet
<bdmurray> wrote a tool to compare launchpad user package subscriptions to the package to team mapping spreadsheet
<slangasek> indeed we can
<bdmurray> google hangout with western oregon university students re bug triage
<bdmurray> cjwatson: no problem ev is working on some changes to the database that will modify some of my work too (for the better though)
<bdmurray> â¼ done
<jodh> * blueprints
<jodh>   - foundations-r-upstart-user-session-enhancements:
<jodh>     - lp:~jamesodhunt/upstart/upstart-shutdown:
<jodh>       - Raised MP for mail code.
<jodh>       - Wrote test code (currently debugging a failure in an existing
<jodh>         test triggered by new test code).
<jodh>     - Reviewed and merged lp:~stgraber/upstart/upstart-user-cwd
<jodh>     - Wrote lp:~jamesodhunt/upstart/init--inherit-env (merged).
<jodh>   - foundations-r-upstart-roadmap: no progress
<jodh>   - foundations-r-arm-ubiquity: no progress
<jodh> * misc
<jodh>   - bug 1120660: Fixed, tested, identified work-around and raised
<ubottu> bug 1120660 in upstart (Ubuntu) "Kernel Panic when running 'sudo dpkg --configure -a' ?" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1120660
<jodh>     upstream MP on lp:~jamesodhunt/upstart/bug-1120660
<jodh>   - bug 1123588: helping to investigate.
<ubottu> bug 1123588 in gcc " [4.7 Regression] wrong code with the fix for PR53844" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1123588
<jodh> ð
<jodh>  
<slangasek> jodh: "mail code"?
<jodh> slangasek: 's/for mail code//' :)
<slangasek> ok :)
<slangasek>  * ovmf package uploaded; in raring and Debian NEW queue
<slangasek>  * ubuntukylin theme package sponsored and waiting in NEW
<slangasek>  * updated pam package at cjwatson's prompting (fixes aarch64, etc); follow-on sponsor uploads of lightdm, gdm
<slangasek>  * sponsorship review of openwsman update for smb
<slangasek>  * upstart branch reviews
<slangasek>  * fix bug #1115875 on the initramfs-tools side - running ldd on firmware is silly
<ubottu> bug 1115875 in initramfs-tools (Ubuntu) "ld-2.17.so crashed with SIGSEGV in <unavailable> in ??()" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1115875
<slangasek>  * todo: systemd package upload this week, in advance of the desktop team's sprint next week
<slangasek> (done)
<ogra_> done:
<ogra_>  * thanks to infinity for giving us a dedicated nexus7 builder ! (no more hunting down broken image builders for me atm)
<ogra_>  * helped to fix bugs caused by rotation code moving into gnome-settings-daemon (old conffiles were not deleted etc)
<ogra_>  * worked a bit on xz compression testing
<ogra_>  * workitem cleanup
<ogra_>  * lots of vet. visits (both cats are better nstead of bzr we all get letters now now !)
<ogra_> todo:
<ogra_>  * finish xz compression for nexus7 images
<ogra_>  * plymouth in initrd
<ogra_>  * look at enabling flavour builds of nx7 images now that we have a dedicated builder
<ogra_>  * research the installer focus breakage with compiz (probably another incarnation of bug 1068994 ... though i heard similar reports from panda users by now)
<ubottu> bug 1068994 in ubuntu-nexus7 "button1 gets stuck after a while" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1068994
<ogra_>  * get the android 4.2.2 kernel changes into our nx7 kernel
<ogra_> done
 * xnox is attached by a fox through a balcony door - luckily it seems to be scared of camera flash.
<xnox> s/attached/attacked/
<slangasek> you have a fox on your... balcony?
<xnox> yes.
<ogra_> heh, nice, i could send you some of my nightly raccoons from here to help you fight him
<slangasek> is this like the Pacific Northwest tree octopus?
<slangasek> any questions for anyone on the above?
<ogra_> yes, why is my focus so broken on 12.04
<ogra_> * lots of vet. visits (both cats are better nstead of bzr we all get letters now now !) was supposed to read * lots of vet. visits (both cats are better !)
<xnox> http://ubuntuone.com/6Vnd5a9kML8WsHH6GvBoYP
<barry> xnox: is that a robofox?
<ogra_> doesnt look like it wants to attack you though
<slangasek> barry: that would explain the battery, wouldn't it
<ogra_> more like "i want to sleep on that warm carpet over there"
 * xnox the battery is unrelated (house mate recharging replacement car battery)
<barry> slangasek: exactly.  i think xnox just wanted to show off his latest 3d print makerbot effort
<slangasek> xnox: I like our theory better
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Bugs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Bugs
<slangasek> bdmurray: what news?
 * xnox note that there reported multiple attacks by foxes recently in and around london
<bdmurray> the rls-r-tracking list is rather lengthy
<bdmurray> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-r-tracking-bug-tasks.html
<ogra_> xnox, you think they are already trained to look cute until they attack ?
<slangasek> can everyone here go through that report today (after the meeting is fine) and review the rls-r-tracking bugs that are assigned to them, and see if there are any that should be un-targeted?
<slangasek> and we should probably dole out the unassigned ones
<slangasek> xnox: is bug #1080437 on you?
<ubottu> bug 1080437 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Raring) "no background during the 13.04 daily install" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1080437
<xnox> slangasek: yes.
<slangasek> xnox: do you have a handle on how to fix it?
<cjwatson> I'll take bug 664526, which I rather suspect is user error somehow but at least needs a test run
<ubottu> bug 664526 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Raring) "setting nomodeset in grub, if live session was started with nomodeset" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/664526
<ogra_> slangasek, there are multiple
<ogra_> (and thats the prob i think)
<cjwatson> I can also take bug 1112472
<ubottu> bug 1112472 in apt-clone (Ubuntu Raring) "dep8 test failed because test data is too old" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1112472
<slangasek> well, I guess we should only fix it one way though :)
<ogra_> compiz wallpaper plugin, gnome-settings-daemon wallapaer plugin ... and there is old code in ubiquity itself iirc
<slangasek> bug #1097922 is odd.  barry, doko, can one of you take this?
<ubottu> bug 1097922 in newt (Ubuntu Raring) "byobu-config crashed with ImportError in /usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/snack.py: /usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/_snack.so: undefined symbol: _Py_RefTotal" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1097922
<xnox> slangasek: latest plan agreed on #-desktop is to reuse g-s-d background plugin code in the ubiquity's wallpaper app as it is proven to work.
<barry> slangasek: sure
<doko> hmm, built for the dbg interpreter?
<barry> doko: sounds like it
<slangasek> barry: thanks
<slangasek> cjwatson: any progress on bug #1097113?
<ubottu> bug 1097113 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Raring) "skip timezone selection" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1097113
<cjwatson> not as yet, sorry, I'll reviw
<cjwatson> +e
<slangasek> oh, bug #1095887 should be fixed now
<ubottu> bug 1095887 in pam (Ubuntu Raring) "package libpam-modules 1.1.3-7ubuntu4 failed to install/upgrade: trying to overwrite shared '/usr/share/man/man8/pam_group.8.gz', which is different from other instances of package libpam-modules:i386" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1095887
<cjwatson> but need to finish .2 first
<slangasek> cjwatson: cheers
 * slangasek nods
 * xnox has still 2 merge proposals for kylin.
<slangasek> bdmurray: do you think that puts enough of a dent in it for this week?
<bdmurray> slangasek: yes, I do
<slangasek> ok, great
<slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<bdmurray> Next Monday is a US Holiday, but I'm taking this Friday off
<slangasek> anything else?
<slangasek> (I'll be off next Monday fwiw)
 * barry too
 * ogra_ wont
<ogra_> :(
<slangasek> http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/02/11/baby-mauled-by-fox-bromley-hospital_n_2660061.html
<slangasek> xnox: so I guess you shouldn't let the fox inside
<slangasek> ogra_: yeah but I'm sure you have National Beer Day or something coming up soon enough ;)
<doko> xfox?
<ogra_> haha, yeah
<slangasek> heh
<slangasek> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Feb 13 16:45:48 2013 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-02-13-16.03.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-02-13-16.03.html
<slangasek> thanks everyone :)
<stgraber> thanks!
<barry> thanks!
<xnox> cheers
<ogra_> thanks !
<jodh> thanks
<redtape-renegade> jono: Hi there .. I'm not sure you got my effort of your wallpaper (shutter) .. https://dl.dropbox.com/u/55128914/Lubuntu%20docs/background%20jonos%20grumpy%20cat%20wallpaper.png
<redtape-renegade> Nice try anyway :D
#ubuntu-meeting 2013-02-15
<seb128> hey
<seb128> ogra_, hey
<seb128> sorry I'm a bit late
<seb128> did you guys start?
<ogra_> nope
<ogra_> i totally forgot about it
 * ogra_ is knee deep in debugging the broken images ... 
<ogra_> so thats the first thing i have to report
<seb128> ogra_, let's start with that then
<seb128> how is the debugging going?
<ogra_> all available images are currently broken :(
<seb128> do you need help? what did you figure so far?
<ogra_> well
<ogra_> what i figured is that X doesnt start ... i can hack around it by adding break=top to the kernel cmdline ... then ...'
<ogra_> remounting the disk rw and making g-s-d unexecutable
<ogra_> so i suspect there are two distinct bugs
<seb128> so it's a g-s-d issue?
<ogra_> one is surely g-s-d
<seb128> in the new rotation code?
<ogra_> but the other seems to be filesystem related or mountall or so
<seb128> should we drop the feature and see if that makes tomorrow's daily work?
<ogra_> not yet
<ogra_> i wont stop hitting it until i know whats going on ... probably g-s-d is just fallout of filesystem issues
<seb128> ok
<ogra_> could also be mountall (seems /tmp isnt cleaned up)
<seb128> desktop is having a sprint next week
<seb128> I hope we have a working image monday
<ogra_> yeah, i'll have it working one way or the other for you on the weekend
<seb128> thanks
<ogra_> or latest monday
<seb128> let me know if I can help
<ogra_> is that a physical sprint (TZ)
<seb128> yes, physical in London
<seb128> going to see the new Canonical office ;-)
<ogra_> bah
<ogra_> envy !
<seb128> hehe
<seb128> ok, on that note, what else happened this week?
<ogra_> so beyond the breakage ...
<seb128> we got the rotation feature moved in g-s-d
<ogra_> g-s-d grep rotation code :P
<ogra_> and i dropped the stuff from the ubuntu=-defaults-nexus7 package
<ogra_> s/grep/grew/
<ogra_> well, beyond that not much happened i think
 * seb128 is looking at raring-changes and his blueprints' email folder
<ogra_> we have a dedicated builder now ...
<seb128> upstart session job is getting there
<ogra_> for the images
<ogra_> yeah
<seb128> so I hope we can jump on that soon
<ogra_> yup, that should save us another lot
<seb128> I didn't have time to update the wiki for "how to contribute", still on my list for next week though
<ogra_> i cant currently provide any ram measurements or so ...
<ogra_> since my device is stuck in the installer :)
<seb128> ok
<seb128> so it was somewhat of a slow progress week, but that's ok, we had some good action in the previous ones, it can't always be at this level
<seb128> some of us as sprinting with a focus on the next next week
<seb128> I will try to do daily updates one way or another
<ogra_> great
<seb128> e.g blog post of email to ubuntu-devel
<seb128> or*
<ogra_> right, we didnt even announce today
<seb128> oh, there was also some activity upstream on the "button get stucked" bug
<seb128> but it seems that's not enough to fix the issue yet
<ogra_> yeah, didnt go forward
<seb128> it's moving though, so with some luck we will get it fixed soon
<ogra_> but there were some test packages
<ogra_> yeah, lots better than for the recent weeks
<seb128> oh
<seb128> I almost forgot
<seb128> Qt5 got uploaded and we managed to get most of it through source and binary NEW
<seb128> it's in raring-proposed
<seb128> qtbase failed to build on powerpc
<seb128> so it will not move to raring yet
<seb128> but that's getting close
<ogra_> yeah
<seb128> which means the phone sdk will be easy to install in raring soon, without ppa ;-)
<ogra_> wohoo
<ogra_> well ... is anone else here who wants to speak up ?
<seb128> I hope that the news of steam being available in the software-center doesn't ruin productivity around in the next weeks :p
<ogra_> haha
<ogra_> it surely will
<vibhav> :D
<ogra_> we should talk to valve if they could put something in that only allows you to play after you helped with nx7 work
<ogra_> should also raise our awareness
<ogra_> :)
<ogra_> doesnt look like we have much community coverage today
<ogra_> xnox, anything new and exciting about the installer (apart from the fact that it doesnt work)
 * xnox shakes fist at ogra_ 
<ogra_> heh
<xnox> not much on nexus7 front. upstart-desktop session seems to be almost complete.
<ogra_> yeah, seb said so above
<ogra_> plars, are there regular test installs happening for the nexus7 ?
 * ogra_ wonders why nobody noticed the current breakage
<plars> ogra_: not automated because we haven't been able to make the preseeding stuff work so far, but manual as time allows. I think psivaa was complaining about something on nexus7 today in fact?
<plars> ogra_: we do have some automated tests, but they update each day for now
<ogra_> well, it would be good to have a test around mid-week regulary
<plars> ogra_: why mid-week? is there something that happens early-mid week?
<ogra_> so we still have old images to compare with that possibly worked (which we dont now since the breakage dates back a  week it seems)
<ogra_> and still some days to fix it before the weekend
<ogra_> plars, we only keep three images
<ogra_> and due to the fact that we dont build milestones there is no functional image at all now
<plars> ogra_: I'll see what we can set up, also mine is still out for repair but I hope to have it back "soon"
<ogra_> k
<seb128> plars, do you know what's happening also about the daily measures for ram usage?
<plars> seb128: those are the automated jobs I mentioned, I have those going on desktop as well as nexus7, graphing should land for those in the dashboard sometime next week
<plars> seb128: eventstat wakeups per second too
<seb128> plars, excellent!
<plars> seb128: those are both currently tested on an idle, freshly booted system at the moment. If there are some other workloads you think would be interesting, we can add them
<seb128> looking forward having that
<plars> seb128: if you just want the raw data for now, I can point you at that
<seb128> yes, didrocks had a document with some scenarios
<seb128> plars, let's talk next week, I'm interested by not today (friday 5:30pm ;-)
<plars> seb128: understand
<seb128> plars, but we should probably have some scenarios like "use the dash 100 times"
<plars> for anyone who might be, the jobs are at: https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/job/smem-raring-desktop-amd64-install-idle-vm/ and https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/job/smem-raring-desktop-armhf-upgrade-idle-nexus702/
<plars> (forgive the missing ones in the first link, recently modified the job to make it run 3 times instead of 1 and had some things to fix)
<seb128> ok
<seb128> plars, thanks
<seb128> anything else?
<ogra_> nope
<ogra_> so lets shut down then
<seb128> right
<seb128> have a good w.e everyone!
<ogra_> going once ...
<ogra_> twice ...
<ogra_> adjouorned
<ogra_> enjoy your weekends
<seb128> ogra_, let me know if I can help debugging the installer issues
<seb128> I'm just going to reboot
<ogra_> seb128, well, probably g-s-d stuff later
<ogra_> i'm still poking on the filesystem
<seb128> my video driver is out of order
<seb128> I can't restart unity, I get intel flush locking errors
<seb128> ok
<seb128> brb
<ogra_> bye
<tgm4883> meeting time?
<tgm4883> bobweaver, I just got here myself
<tgm4883> is there an agenda?
 * bobweaver needs to  ake coffee he was up all night last night hacking a new webbrowser for TV 
 * bobweaver will be back in 5 min 
<CrestedNewt> hiya guys
<tgm4883> Doesn't look like there is much agenda
<tgm4883> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Fri Feb 15 18:07:30 2013 UTC.  The chair is tgm4883. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<CrestedNewt> I don't have anything really
<tgm4883> #chair CrestedNewt tgm4883
<meetingology> Current chairs: CrestedNewt tgm4883
<tgm4883> I'll let CrestedNewt lead this meeting
<CrestedNewt> OK, I had a Google hangout with bobweaver last sunday which was great
<CrestedNewt> 'after' he had his coffee - so hopefully he will be back in a minute
<bobweaver> 3 min
<bobweaver> OK
<bobweaver> #Topic arm port
<bobweaver> we are ready and have a img
<tgm4883> #chair CrestedNewt tgm4883 bobweaver
<meetingology> Current chairs: CrestedNewt bobweaver tgm4883
<tgm4883> #Topic arm port
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: arm port
<bobweaver> thing is I am trying to get virtual arm set up
<bobweaver> I got a letter from canonical saying that there going to get me some hardware to test on
<bobweaver> (will )
<bobweaver> we will see how that works out
<CrestedNewt> OK, Bobweaver, I have contacted ARM in the UK looking for a good match for you in the USA to get you a board. I have had no response as yet so I am planning on talking to them on Monday.
<bobweaver> cool CrestedNewt
<bobweaver> any more questions about arm?
<CrestedNewt> #action CrestedNewt - chase up ARM re supplier of ARM boards in USA
<meetingology> ACTION: CrestedNewt - chase up ARM re supplier of ARM boards in USA
<bobweaver> #action bobweaver  needs to stay in touch with canonical
<meetingology> ACTION: bobweaver  needs to stay in touch with canonical
<bobweaver> #topic Qt5/qml2
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Qt5/qml2
<bobweaver> so I am porting weverything over to qt5/qml2
<bobweaver> this is a big thing and is going to take me some time
<bobweaver> good news about this is though I almost have all the tools that are needed for unity 2d to be running on qt5/qml2
<bobweaver> then on the 21 (if I get done by then) I will be porting it all to the Phone
 * tgm4883 tries to not make a comment about duke nukem
<bobweaver> #action  keep on working on porting dconf-qt to qt5
<meetingology> ACTION: keep on working on porting dconf-qt to qt5
<bobweaver> #action keep on working on porting libbamf and launcher lib to qt5
<meetingology> ACTION: keep on working on porting libbamf and launcher lib to qt5
<CrestedNewt> Is the phone OS still due out the end of this month or has that date lapsed doe we know?
<bobweaver> feb 21
<tgm4883> bobweaver, you're suppose to put your nick in there as well
<bobweaver> woops
<bobweaver> there is 3 of us lol
<bobweaver> any more questions about qt5/qml2 ?
<CrestedNewt> #action  bobweaver keep on working on porting dconf-qt to qt5
<meetingology> ACTION: bobweaver keep on working on porting dconf-qt to qt5
<CrestedNewt> #action bobweaver keep on working on porting libbamf and launcher lib to qt5
<meetingology> ACTION: bobweaver keep on working on porting libbamf and launcher lib to qt5
<CrestedNewt> I have none
<bobweaver> tgm4883,  ?
<tgm4883> I have no questions
<bobweaver> #topic wayland
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: wayland
<bobweaver> one can run wayland (if they have the hardware) and qt5 lets us do this
<CrestedNewt> OK, apologies for being a bit backward here - what is wayland?
<bobweaver> I will be pushing a example of this after porting of qt5 is done
<bobweaver> !wayland
<bobweaver> stupid bot
<bobweaver> !X
<ubottu> The X Window System is the part of your system that's responsible for graphical output. To restart your X, type Â« sudo /etc/init.d/?dm restart Â» in a console - To fix screen resolution or other X problems: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/X/Config/Resolution
 * tgm4883 wonders why were worrying about wayland
<bobweaver> because it is cool
<bobweaver> and I like the idea
<tgm4883> bobweaver, ah, so Ubuntu TV is going to be the new Duke Nukem Forever?
<bobweaver> CrestedNewt,  if wayland is a  servre just like X
<CrestedNewt> I've just looked it up :D
<bobweaver> But that said I want 3 different ports
<bobweaver> 1)  wayland 2) X    ok only 2 at the moment
<bobweaver> tgm4883,  it is not that I am going to target wayland it is more that it works so why not show it off :)
<mhall119> I don't see why it should matter, as long as the toolkit supports the underlying display server (which Qt does)
<bobweaver> and (I dont know what Duke Nukem is
<mhall119> bobweaver: it's a game that's been in development for like 20 years
<tgm4883> bobweaver, I would like to have a downloadable, supported ISO at some point
<tgm4883> mhall119, it was released after 15 years of development
<mhall119> tgm4883: they released it?
<mhall119> when did that happen?
<bobweaver> then make it what does that have to do with wayland or display server ?
<tgm4883> bobweaver, mhall119 and the reason it was in development for 15 years, was because they'd get close to releasing it then see a new cool technology that was out that they had to use
<tgm4883> mhall119, yes, it got pretty bad reviews
<bobweaver> ahh I see
<mhall119> bobweaver: it's usually a reference made when software is in a constant state of "almost ready to release" and they goes back for more changes
<bobweaver> #action tell people that make thoughts to stop thinking
<meetingology> ACTION: tell people that make thoughts to stop thinking
<tgm4883> bobweaver, mhall119 the length of time something is in development is directly proportional to what the community expects from it
<CrestedNewt> Basically what tgm4883 is saying is that we need to concentrate on getting an image out that works currently. Am I correct?
<bobweaver> there is one image out there that works
<tgm4883> so the longer it takes to make something, the more perfect it better be
<mhall119> the good news is that bobweaver will soon have all the Phone code available
<tgm4883> I don't know of a single supported ISO for Ubuntu TV
<tgm4883> Yea I don't see Ubuntu TV listed at http://releases.ubuntu.com/
<bobweaver> only on 12.04 but it is something. Or people can use 11.10 and the crazy old one
<bobweaver> tgm4883,  want to be incharge of that  ?
<mhall119> tgm4883: it's not an official release so it won't be hosted there
<bobweaver> #topic ISO
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: ISO
<bobweaver> See
<tgm4883> mhall119, why not
<bobweaver> everything that I do gets roadblocked
<mhall119> tgm4883: technical and legal reasons, really
<bobweaver> or "Duke Nukemed "
<tgm4883> mhall119, Mythbuntu is listed there
<mhall119> isn't mythbuntu a supported flavor?
<tgm4883> mhall119, define supported
<pleia2> it is
<bobweaver> so lets just tell people to install that for now
<pleia2> and "recognised flavor" is the term
<bobweaver> I could make a iso or see if orga will elp me
<mhall119> definition: what pleia2 says :)
<tgm4883> mhall119, I mean, if our aim isn't to become a recognised flavor, then what is the point of this project?
<mhall119> tgm4883: the aim is to be fully integrated into Unity itself
<bobweaver> +1
<bobweaver> then hire unity developers
<bobweaver> I am sick and tired of all this talk
<mhall119> we're working on that
<bobweaver> port to this No port to tha t
<tgm4883> mhall119, I mean, at one point there were even paid developers for Ubuntu TV, which is far more than Mythbuntu has
<mhall119> bobweaver: I understand the frustration
<bobweaver> All I want is a working TV and I have that
<bobweaver> I dont care if it is part of Ubuntu
<bobweaver> But it does say things about Ubuntu
<mhall119> tgm4883: Ubuntu TV wasn't every supposed to be a separate installation though, it was just supposed to be "Ubuntu" with a TV-friendly configuration of Unity
<bobweaver> I am so confued
<bobweaver> I get emails from canonical people telling me that qml2 is the future
<bobweaver> then I hear that Nux is the future
<tgm4883> mhall119, what you just said is far more information that was said to the public
<mhall119> tgm4883: it is?  I thought we were clear on that from the get-go
<mhall119> if not, I apologize, we should have been
<bobweaver> again lets see how the phone is tied in
<tgm4883> mhall119, my understanding is that it was going to be preloaded on TV's
<tgm4883> mhall119, which is one of the reasons I'm here, to prevent that from being the only option
<mhall119> the intent is to eventually have just one "Unity" codebase that can change between desktop, mobile and TV layouts
<tgm4883> I'm getting a bit pessimistic about this project :/
<bobweaver> what ever it does not matter that I code 100's of hours
<bobweaver> and port all this stuff
<CrestedNewt> OK, I have come to the game late in the day... I need to pull together everything that I can so that we can have a 'route plan' to get this working AND to keep everyone happy.
<bobweaver> all I care about is a working tv at my house
<bobweaver> you all can use it if you like
<tgm4883> This has all the markings of a Canonical project, without any of the canonical backing it seems
<mhall119> tgm4883: pre-loading on TVs was the distribution plan, since providing installers for TVs wasn't a very attractive option
<bobweaver> Until canonical makes up there mind I am not doing anyuthing more for TV
<tgm4883> mhall119, personally, IMO it was a bad plan
<CrestedNewt> OK, bobweaver, send me the names of people I can meet face to face in London
<bobweaver> #action make iso and
<meetingology> ACTION: make iso and
<tgm4883> mhall119, should have targeted a arm chip that you could plug into an HDMI port
<bobweaver> LOL
<mhall119> tgm4883: the target was any hardware that could run Ubuntu
<mhall119> which included a variety of ARM devices with HDMI out
<tgm4883> mhall119, all that aside, it doesn't help that "canonical" says "unity unity unity", then bobweaver does all the work
<bobweaver> and CANONICAL IS NOT SAYING UNITY UNITY UNTIY
<mhall119> tgm4883: I agree, and bobweaver knows I've been doing everything in my power to get more resources available
<tgm4883> mhall119, I mean, I like unity, but at this point i'd rather ask bobweaver to work on mythfrontend since it doesn't change so much
<bobweaver> or at least that is the emails that I get
<tgm4883> bobweaver, when this project started, that is exactly what was being said
<mhall119> tgm4883: I do share your frustrations, I really do
<CrestedNewt> I can get to the Canonical London offices easy enough. Who do I need to meet up with?
<mhall119> CrestedNewt: for what?
<tgm4883> bobweaver, I know, because a few of us asked why we aren't using projects that are already existing
<CrestedNewt> to get some backing or whatever you guys NEED from them
<bobweaver> #aaction bobweaver  introduce CrestedNewt  to key people
<bobweaver> #action bobweaver  introduce CrestedNewt  to key people
<meetingology> ACTION: bobweaver  introduce CrestedNewt  to key people
<IdleOne> CrestedNewt: What you going to do when you get to the office?
<tgm4883> mhall119, I just wish this wasn't a project that canonical was half into
<bobweaver> I like how CrestedNewt  is busness minded somethin g that I am not
<tgm4883> either be in or get out
<mhall119> CrestedNewt: it wouldn't be someone in London
<bobweaver> ok no more Unity fights please
<mhall119> tgm4883: we all wish that
<bobweaver> If they want to use unity then that is up to them
<bobweaver> bottom line !
<CrestedNewt> I need to talk to tgm4883, bobweave and mhall119 offline to pull together an agenda. If the problems are 'blockages' let me see if I can unblock these
 * tgm4883 is unsure who CrestedNewt represents
<CrestedNewt> the TEAM
<bobweaver> #action bobweaver  set up google hangout with CrestedNewt  and tgm4883  and anyone else that wants to work on this team
<meetingology> ACTION: bobweaver  set up google hangout with CrestedNewt  and tgm4883  and anyone else that wants to work on this team
<mhall119> CrestedNewt: the main problem is resources, or rather the finite nature of them
<tgm4883> CrestedNewt, bobweaver and I are community. mhall119 is canonical. I'm unsure which you are
<bobweaver> Any more questions about ISO ?
<bobweaver> !topic
<ubottu> Please read the channel topic whenever you enter, as it contains important information. To view it at any time after joining, simply type /topic
<CrestedNewt> I am community
<tgm4883> CrestedNewt, ok
<mhall119> I can help manually roll an ISO if need be, but that's about all the experience I have
<bobweaver> well that did not work out like I liked
<bobweaver> #topic
* Topic unset by meetingology on #ubuntu-meeting
<bobweaver> ERGHHH
<bobweaver> sorry
<bobweaver> Ok if no one else has questions about ISO lets move on
<bobweaver> #topic remote
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: remote
<bobweaver> I have made a qml2 remote that controls mythfront ends from other devices
<bobweaver> so that remote can be phone or tablet
<bobweaver> it uses mythtv services api
<bobweaver> quesstions comments ?
<CrestedNewt> I want to make a youtube vid for you on something that someone else uses
<CrestedNewt> it won't be today but hopeully over the weekend
<bobweaver> cool
<bobweaver> tgm4883,  is there anything in the remote that the services dont offerer that you think it should ?
<bobweaver> ssh
<bobweaver> ect
<tgm4883> hmm
<CrestedNewt> #action CrestedNewt - make youtube video of 'other' PVR system
<meetingology> ACTION: CrestedNewt - make youtube video of 'other' PVR system
<tgm4883> I'd have to look at the services APi for the frontend
<bobweaver> #action tgm4883  look at services for front end and find more cool stuf
<meetingology> ACTION: tgm4883  look at services for front end and find more cool stuf
<bobweaver> any more questions about the remotes ?
<tgm4883> I mean, I don't exactly know what we're using the mythfrontend for, but we'll need some sort of interface anyway for remotes
<bobweaver>  because this is not Ubuntu TV anymore
<tgm4883> mhall119, can you say anything about what saviq was working on with remotes?
<bobweaver> that is what people say
<bobweaver> see that is the shit that I am talking about ^^^^
<bobweaver> #topic  Name and keeping bob from ripping his hair out
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Name and keeping bob from ripping his hair out
<CrestedNewt> OK bobweaver, let's keep frustration low atm please. We will get there.
<bobweaver> I am done dealing with do this no do that I am just going to do what I love
<bobweaver> I am no longer part of the Ubuntu TV priject
<mhall119> tgm4883: sorry, I don't know anything about remote work
<bobweaver> as they (canonical ) has all the people they need for this
<mhall119> we reallydon't
<bobweaver> and they do not talk to me about remotes and stuff like that so I waste my time over and over again
<CrestedNewt> OK, change of tack then.... how about a web front end built into the TV which can be controlled from any device?
<bobweaver> If They do not like what I am doing then they can use the many people that are developing this in house
<bobweaver> #action bobweaver  make a choice if he is part of this team with canonical or if he is just getting run a-stray
<meetingology> ACTION: bobweaver  make a choice if he is part of this team with canonical or if he is just getting run a-stray
<bobweaver> that is up to canonical and not me
<bobweaver> untill they make that choice and until they can make a choice on how they are going to do things I am out
 * tgm4883 wonders where this meeting went off track
<CrestedNewt> me too!
<bobweaver> I am done developing things for hours to be told what I am doing isnot some "designers" Idea
<bobweaver> sorry guys but this is huge
<bobweaver> either this is part of Ubuntu TV or it is not
<bobweaver> this needs to be talked about
<mhall119> bobweaver: I made clear from the outset that things had to follow the design spec in order to be accepted for inclusion
<tgm4883> mhall119, who is the PM of Ubuntu TV
<bobweaver> we as a community can not be working at this with no idea of what some "designer is going to do "
<mhall119> that's what the "product" was supposed to be
<CrestedNewt> bobweaver - I think that this is destined to be integrated fully into Ubuntu
<mhall119> tgm4883: Will Cooke is the development manager
<bobweaver> Ok so let me tell you all this
<bobweaver> 1) ubuntu tv has been in unity 3d fro 2 cycles now
<mhall119> there isn't a separate "PM" necessarily, that I know of anywya
<bobweaver> sence 11.10
<tgm4883> mhall119, nothing against will cooke, but I haven't seen him at any of these meetings. Indicating to me that what we are doing is pointless
<CrestedNewt> +1
<bobweaver> tgm4883,  I talk to will all the time
<bobweaver> well not all the time
<mhall119> tgm4883: Will and his team were tasked with getting the multi-media bits of the Phone done
<bobweaver> 1 or twice a week
<tgm4883> mhall119, if he's the development manager, he should be managing the developers of Ubuntu TV at some point. AFAIK, that is bobweaver
<mhall119> which is why they haven't been actively engaged with the TV work
<mhall119> tgm4883: well, yes and no
<bobweaver> So back to unity go ahead and open up dconf editor and use Unity 3d TV that is ubuntu TV
<bobweaver> LOL
<mhall119> to a large extent that's my job, as a community manager, to work between Canonical and Community
<bobweaver> Ubuntu TV is for now that and that is what it will stay until I get something in writing
<mhall119> Will is responsible for his direct reports and his official tasks from Canonical
<tgm4883> mhall119, unless there are developers at canonical working on this, then IMO it's a community project
<mhall119> tgm4883: at the moment that is the case, yes
<bobweaver> Will and jhodpp are awesome and willing to take and anwser emails
<bobweaver> So again I am going to change all the wiki to tell people to use 11.10 or Ubuntu TV via Unity 3d
<tgm4883> mhall119, then at some point, the community is going to get tired of Canonical being half in this and either take over the project or dump it
<bobweaver> #action bobweaver change all the wiki stuff
<meetingology> ACTION: bobweaver change all the wiki stuff
<CrestedNewt> OK.... Let us take a step backwards and let's get all our ducks in a row so to speak.
<mhall119> tgm4883: I would encourage the community to take the initiative on development, but to try and follow the provided design spec
<CrestedNewt> mhall119 - could you send me the original remit please?
<mhall119> remit?
<bobweaver> community does not want to develop in NUX
<CrestedNewt> what was expected from this project, the framework it has to adhere to, etc etc
<tgm4883> mhall119, basically, from a comunity POV, canonical said "here is the design spec, make it happen"
<mhall119> bobweaver: undestood
<bobweaver> community does not want to do alot of things that "Designers" are talking about
<mhall119> bobweaver: programmers rarely do ;)
<bobweaver> community does not want to be told one thing then 2 weeks later something else
<tgm4883> mhall119, my understanding is that things keep changing too much
<mhall119> bobweaver: if it's any comfort, community are not the only ones suffering that
<bobweaver> community does not want to be told that qml2 is the future then they come to meetings and hear different
<mhall119> bobweaver: there are many voices with many opinions in Canonical
<bobweaver> #action bobweaver get a hold of will and Jim and saviq and see if they will do a hang out to get this out in the open
<meetingology> ACTION: bobweaver get a hold of will and Jim and saviq and see if they will do a hang out to get this out in the open
<mhall119> bobweaver: the most official answer I have for you on that is that Qt5/QML2 is the future for our app development SDK
<bobweaver> mhall119,  you know that this is killing the TV today right ?
<mhall119> but that doesn't necessarily many anything for the future of Unity's foundations
<CrestedNewt> mhall119, but if bobweaver & tgm4883 have been working on something, according to original remit, and the goal posts change.... there is a problem that needs to be sorted
<mhall119> CrestedNewt: I will try and find the design spec that was provided
<CrestedNewt> mhall119, thanks :D
<mhall119> CrestedNewt: but for the technology, the direction was to use Unity3d and Nux
<bobweaver> oh designers
<bobweaver> :)
<mhall119> which has not been easy
<mhall119> I understand
<bobweaver> #action get mark to talk to me about future of TV and ho it is going to run on Phone also talk about the future of the dash
<meetingology> ACTION: get mark to talk to me about future of TV and ho it is going to run on Phone also talk about the future of the dash
<bobweaver> er I forgot my name again sorry
<bobweaver> mhall119,  then find a community that wants to do that
<mhall119> bobweaver: I've tried :)
<bobweaver> as I have said like a broken record TV mode is on unity 3d
<bobweaver> tell people to use it
<bobweaver> see what they thing :D
<mhall119> TV mode is available on Unity 3d?
<bobweaver> YEAH @ cycles NOW
<bobweaver> 2 *
<mhall119> does it look different from desktop Unity?
<bobweaver> try it
<mhall119> how?
<bobweaver> change the dconf formfactor
<CrestedNewt> ok ladies and gents, time is short.I think that certain frustrations have come to light today, which although not great, means that we have a reference point with which to work from and move forwards.
<mhall119> my understanding was that your work was all being done on Unity 2d
<bobweaver> no it has not mhall119
<bobweaver> I have been told 4 different tthings at 4 different points
<bobweaver> mhall119,  let me try to explain something that happened at UDS
<CrestedNewt> we are about to over-run
<CrestedNewt> lets take this to the TV channel
<CrestedNewt> agreed?
<bobweaver> so I went to will and Jim and said hey I know that you all can not talk to me about things that are happening in the uture but if you see soething just email me saying "that is not a good idea "
<mhall119> bobweaver: we can talk in #ubuntu-tv so as not to take up this channel
<bobweaver> agreeded
<bobweaver> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Fri Feb 15 19:00:35 2013 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-02-15-18.07.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-02-15-18.07.html
#ubuntu-meeting 2014-02-10
<zequence> I'll  here about 5 past, so a bit late
<Laney> !dmb-ping
<ubottu> bdrung, ScottK, Laney, micahg, barry, tumbleweed, stgraber: DMB ping
 * stgraber waves
<tumbleweed> o/
<Laney> agenda says barry to chair
<zequence> hi
<ari-tczew> hi
<Laney> alternatively bdrung alternatively alternatively me
<tumbleweed> no, still ScottK to chair
<barry> Laney: ScottK i think, unless he's not here
<Laney> Upcoming: Barry, Benjamin, Iain, Micah, Scott, StÃ©phane, Stefano, wrap  is lies?
<barry> Next DMB meetings (Chair: Scott):
<barry> since tumbleweed chaired the last one
<Laney> oh man, I never look at that
<barry> but i'm having system problems this morning so it might be best if i don't chair anyway
<tumbleweed> ScottK has missed his turn to chair for a while, so he's creeping up the list again
<Laney> okay, let me do it
<Laney> #startmeeting DMB
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Feb 10 15:06:04 2014 UTC.  The chair is Laney. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | DMB Meeting | Current topic:
<Laney> #topic Review of previous action items
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | DMB Meeting | Current topic: Review of previous action items
<barry> Laney: thanks
<Laney> #subtopic micahg to update documentation on PPU team restructuring.
<Laney> micahg_mobile: ?
<Laney> let's come back to that ...
<Laney> #subtopic Add upload rights for pocock and hyperair
<Laney> stgraber: you happy to do that?
<Laney> Â¬_Â¬
<Laney> stop playing portal!
<stgraber> Laney: sure
<Laney> thanks
<Laney> #action stgraber to add upload rights for pocock and hyperair
<meetingology> ACTION: stgraber to add upload rights for pocock and hyperair
<Laney> #topic MOTU Application - Artur Rona
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | DMB Meeting | Current topic: MOTU Application - Artur Rona
<Laney> ari-tczew: hi, could you introduce yourself please
<ari-tczew> sure.  My name is Artur, nickname ari-tczew, I was MOTU already and I'd like to rejoin again
<Laney> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArturRona/MOTUApplicationNEW
<Laney> are there specific areas you focus on / would like to focus on?
<bdrung_work> sorry, i am busy
<ari-tczew> yes, I'd like to focus on reducing delta between Debian and Ubuntu
<ari-tczew> so, merges, syncs, forwarding changes, etc.
<Laney> yay
<Laney> in any specific area? do you have any commit / upload access in Debian or do you intend on getting that?
<ari-tczew> no, i don't. I have already uploaded a few packages als NMU in Debian. http://qa.debian.org/developer.php?login=ari-tczew@tlen.pl
<ari-tczew> anyway, I'm writing a submit@debian.org if changes are forwardable, then  I hope maintainer will upload Ubuntu changes
<Laney> good, that's what we like to see
<Laney> @bugs.debian.org, hopefully :P
<meetingology> Laney: Error: "bugs.debian.org," is not a valid command.
 * Laney slaps
<barry> ari-tczew: i often see changes made in ubuntu packages which should probably be upstreamed in debian.  but ubuntu devs don't always have the knowledge or permission to upload to debian.  i'd like to see steps taken to help make debian the first stop for patches when possible
<ari-tczew> yes, I write direct from my head :P
<Laney> so, since you've been out for a while - do you remember how the second half of the cycle works?
<ari-tczew> barry: ok, like above - if changes are forwardable, I'm sending them to maintainers
<ari-tczew> Laney: I think so.
<tumbleweed> ari-tczew: hi. so, let's talk about the things you like least in ubuntu
<Laney> maybe you could expand on that a little bit :P
<tumbleweed> do you think we can improve sponsorship?
<ari-tczew> tumbleweed: yes, we can!
<tumbleweed> how?
<ari-tczew> tumbleweed: so, I think we need to keep a small size of sponsoring overview and don't keep requests hanging on since a few months or more.
<tumbleweed> that's the result, but how do we get there?
<ari-tczew> if requests is related to main section, MOTUs can review them, as well. although, from packaging knowledge.
<ari-tczew> if requests are*
<barry> ari-tczew: we have patch piloting, which is supposed to help keep queue small.  in my experience though, it can sometimes be tough to consume a lot of items during a pp session.  if one merge/patch takes a long time to verify, it can eat up a lot of time.  can we improve the patch pilot program to help with big queues?
<ari-tczew> we can help contributors to get patches uploaded, if someone is fresh, we don't need to write "please update your d/changelog, there's no * in line X", we can make it done themselve and upload patch/debdiff
<Laney> we still get hard sponsorships being ignored :(
<barry> Laney: yep
<Laney> doesn't look awful in that respect currently though
<tumbleweed> ari-tczew: you subscribed to ubuntu-devel-announce?
<ari-tczew> barry: I have noticed that patch pilots make in the first queue syncs, merges, what are comparatively easy as SRUs or requests hanging on since 2 months
<ari-tczew> barry: so, maybe patch pilots will make in the first shot the old requests
<ari-tczew> tumbleweed: yes, I am
<Laney> imo it's a bit focused on sponsoring and not so much on piloting as was the original mission
<barry> ari-tczew: yes, that's been my experience and observation too.  it's a trade-off between trying to get a lot of easy things done, or just a couple of hard things.  any thoughts on how to make the process (either sru or patch piloting) easier to take on the hard tasks?
<Laney> which was to try and help patches along even if you don't upload them
<Laney> let's vote after this reply so that we have time for zequence, unless anyone has anything burning
<ari-tczew> barry: I think just patch pilots should take care of the most forgotten requests (last is 2013-05-14). if sponsoring overview is clear, then can we think about another ideas
<ari-tczew> so: just take the work in hands
<Laney> thanks, now to the voting chamber
 * Laney enrobes
<barry> ari-tczew: i'm skeptical the queue will ever be clear ;)  but anyway
<Laney> #vote Should ari-tczew join ~motu?
<meetingology> Please vote on: Should ari-tczew join ~motu?
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
<Laney> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from Laney
<barry> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from barry
<tumbleweed> +1 [ welcome back ]
<meetingology> +1 [ welcome back ] received from tumbleweed
<micahg_mobile> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from micahg_mobile
<stgraber> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from stgraber
<Laney> bdrung_work: here?
<Laney> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: Should ari-tczew join ~motu?
<meetingology> Votes for:5 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<Laney> ari-tczew: welcome back!
<barry> ari-tczew: congrats!
<ari-tczew> Thank you for your trust.
<Laney> #topic Per Package Uploader Application - zequence
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | DMB Meeting | Current topic: Per Package Uploader Application - zequence
<Laney> hi zequence, please could you briefly introduce yourself
<zequence> Hi. I'm the project lead for Ubuntu Studio, musician first, coder/packager second, so to speak
<zequence> I've been involved in Ubuntu Studio development for a few years now. Maybe 3-4
<zequence> Not so much packagin though, until the last year or so
<zequence> I was hoping that micahg_mobile would show up, as he's done most of the sponsoring :)
<micahg_mobile> I'm here
<zequence> I'm applying for upload rights for the ubuntustudio-* packages at this point, but will like to extend to the whole Ubuntu Studio package set in the future
<barry> zequence: hi.  i'm only seeing one endorsement on your application, but you've worked extensively with many members of ubuntu.  did you ask any of them to add endorsements to your page?
<zequence> Aside from doing only a small amount of changes myself to ubuntustudio-* packages, I've fixed a couple of bugs, and been maintaining linux-lowlatency now for a good while
<zequence> Well, I've asked a few, but none have written anything on the page
<zequence> diwic and dholbach both were involved in a couple of bugs I had fixed
<zequence> They might not even remember
<zequence> apw and infinity have both been involved in linux-lowlatency, but I'm not doing anything complicated there
<dholbach> I do, vaguely :)
<zequence> Cool :)
<zequence> The studio packages are fairly simple to maintain. Most of the work is just in updating our meta package, and our default settings
<zequence> We have a couple of our own projects too, -installer and -controls (which I'm rewriting from scratch atm)
<zequence> I know my way around a debian package, but I haven't had extensive practical experience from diverse packaging and getting stuff sponsored
<micahg_mobile> Zequence: do you review the diff of the VCS versions before requesting sponsorship to ensure that everything in there is good?
<zequence> micahg_mobile: So far, I havent't packaged anything that is an update of something upstream
<zequence> We are the upstream for our own packages, and in the case with the bugs, I just added patches consisting of the particular code that fixed the bugs
<micahg_mobile> No,I'm referring to packages maintained in a VCS like ubuntustudio-default-settings
<zequence> micahg_mobile: If I am to upload a package, then I will of course make sure what changed was something useful.
<micahg_mobile> Can i direct you to version 0.48 of ubuntustudio-default-settings, please take a look at the diff, do you notice anything out of the ordinary?
<micahg_mobile> (Sorry, can't give a link from here easily)
<zequence> just a moment..
<Laney> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/150692403/ubuntustudio-default-settings_0.47_0.48.diff.gz
<micahg_mobile> Thanks Laney
<Laney> I think we need to speed this along a bit; time is almost up
<zequence> Yeah, looks like change itself for the wallpaper doesn't show
<Laney> I think micahg_mobile is trying to get at the fact that this postinst performs a rm -f on a file which the package doesn't own
<Laney> which isn't really going to work properly, like if the user ever reinstalls the owning package or if it is SRUed
<Laney> that wasn't a change /introduced/ in this version, but it certainly raises some flags to me when I see this diff
<zequence> I haven't followed Lens changes a lot
<Laney> ideally that would be looked at
<Laney> does anybody else have any questions
<zequence> (since I haven't been the one uploading them, or reviewing them)
<Laney> ?
<Laney> I think it's just something that came up in course of reviewing your stuff :-)
<Laney> zequence: looks like linux-lowlatency got absorbed into the main kernel
<Laney> I guess that's nice for you :-)
<Laney> okay, let's vote
<Laney> #vote Should zequence get upload rights to the packges listed in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/zequence/DeveloperApplication ?
<meetingology> Please vote on: Should zequence get upload rights to the packges listed in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/zequence/DeveloperApplication ?
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
<Laney> too difficult to copy and paste that into a nice list :P
<Laney> also, that lowlatency thing is noted there I see now
<Laney> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from Laney
<barry> +0 [ would like to see more endorsements from folks you've worked with ]
<meetingology> +0 [ would like to see more endorsements from folks you've worked with ] received from barry
<tumbleweed> -1 [ that ubuntustudio-default-settings postinst doesn't inspire me with any confidence. And I'd like to see at least one endorsement from a sponsor ]
<meetingology> -1 [ that ubuntustudio-default-settings postinst doesn't inspire me with any confidence. And I'd like to see at least one endorsement from a sponsor ] received from tumbleweed
<stgraber> +0 [ would like to see some endorsements ]
<meetingology> +0 [ would like to see some endorsements ] received from stgraber
<micahg_mobile> +0 i would like to see an endorsement from a lowlatency sponsor
<meetingology> +0 i would like to see an endorsement from a lowlatency sponsor received from micahg_mobile
<micahg_mobile> Oh, is that not on the application anymore?
<Laney> nope
<zequence> No, linux-lowlatency is now merged with master :)
<zequence> I still maintain the config diff
<zequence> which is as trivial as it has always been
<zequence> But, I don't deal with the source
<tumbleweed> given the long involvement with that, I'm not so concerned about it, anyway. It's more general debian packaging that I'm worried about
<tumbleweed> (with that == the kernel bits)
<micahg_mobile> +0, a concerned with the postinst
<meetingology> +0, a concerned with the postinst received from micahg_mobile
<Laney> okay
<zequence> Who uploaded that?
<Laney> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: Should zequence get upload rights to the packges listed in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/zequence/DeveloperApplication ?
<meetingology> Votes for:1 Votes against:1 Abstentions:3
<meetingology> Deadlock, casting vote may be used
<Laney> wtf
<Laney> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntustudio-default-settings/0.48
<Laney> So, I'm sorry that this wasn't successful right now
<Laney> would people be happy to have a quick email vote if some endorsements come around? or back to IRC again?
<zequence> Ah, sorry dholbach. I should have looked into that change a bit more carefully :)
<Laney> or an IRC vote without this whole interview thing?
<barry> zequence: please do solicit those endorsements.  i'd be happy enough to take it to email.
<dholbach> zequence, sorry I didn't follow the meeting and am in a phone call right now
<zequence> dholbach: No problem.
<barry> *take a follow up vote on zequence's application to email
<Laney> okay
<Laney> zequence: if you can get two or three endorsements and then email devel-permissions I'll try to make sure we re-vote
<Laney> Assume you don't need to attend any meeting unless we tell you otherwise
<zequence> I think in this situation what I need to is get sponsors for the coming uploads of ubuntustudio-* packages before this release, and then apply again
<zequence> Also, go through all the packages for faults, like what was just described
<tumbleweed> yeah, that'd work
<zequence> Thanks everyone
 * Laney hugs zequence 
<Laney> thanks!
<Laney> #topic AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | DMB Meeting | Current topic: AOB
<micahg_mobile> Zequence: that would be great, you're doing great work
<zequence> micahg_mobile: Thanks
<Laney> so, micahg_mobile has promised to start a vote on Noskcaj
<Laney> please do that asap
<Laney> #action micahg_mobile to start a vote on Noskcaj on devel-permissions
<meetingology> ACTION: micahg_mobile to start a vote on Noskcaj on devel-permissions
<micahg_mobile> Ok
<Laney> anything else?
<Laney> Oh, I started looking at the packageset script and it threw up some odd things
<Laney> like adding sbuild to kubuntu
<Laney> need to see what's going on there, then we can start running it regularly / automatically
<Laney> going
<Laney> going
<Laney> gone
<Laney> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Feb 10 16:15:15 2014 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2014/ubuntu-meeting.2014-02-10-15.06.moin.txt
<barry> thanks Laney !
<Laney> np
<micahg_mobile> Thanks Laney
<lderan> is the meetin bot's output okay for everyone?
<mdeslaur> \o
<tyhicks> hello!
<jjohansen> o/
<jdstrand> hi!
<jdstrand> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Feb 10 16:37:20 2014 UTC.  The chair is jdstrand. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
 * sbeattie waves
<jdstrand> The meeting agenda can be found at:
<jdstrand> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Announcements
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Announcements
<jdstrand> Thanks to Felix Geyer (debfx) provided debdiffs for Precise, Raring, Saucy for libotr, libotr2 (LP: #1266016). Your work is very much appreciated and will keep Ubuntu users secure. Great job! :)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1266016 in libotr2 (Ubuntu Saucy) "Disable insecure OTRv1 protocol" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1266016
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Review of any previous action items
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Review of any previous action items
<jdstrand> [ACTION] chrisccoulson to benchmark oxide and qtwebkit
<meetingology> ACTION: chrisccoulson to benchmark oxide and qtwebkit
<jdstrand> chrisccoulson: I think we are in a position now where that can happen this week?
<jdstrand> chrisccoulson: all I'm looking for is on mako, opening the few testsuites in both oxide and qtwebkit and putting the results somewhere
<jdstrand> chrisccoulson: I think we would wnat a non-debug build
<mdeslaur> chrisccoulson: WAKE UP ^G^G^G^G^G
<jdstrand> ok, I'll swing back
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly stand-up report
<jdstrand> I'll go first
<jdstrand> I'm on triage this week
<jdstrand> I have some pending updates I am working on
<chrisccoulson> oh, sorry, i'm here now ;)
<jdstrand> I have an incredible amount of followups from the sprint and other things that accumulated during the sprint
<jdstrand> I hope to tie up several work items too
<jdstrand> that's it for me
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: you're up
<mdeslaur> I'm on community this week
<mdeslaur> I'm currently testing some libgadu updates I should be pushing out in a few miutes
<mdeslaur> and will continue going down the CVE list, as usual
<mdeslaur> that's about it from me
<mdeslaur> sbeattie: you're up
<sbeattie> I'm focused on apparmor work again this week.
<sbeattie> I'll be concentrating on the apparmor testing work items in support of jjohansen's work on IPC.
<sbeattie> I also accumulated a couple of other tasks from the sprint around apparmor and will take care of those.
<sbeattie> That's pretty much it for me. tyhicks?
<tyhicks> I was able to wrap up several nagging work items during the sprint last week
<tyhicks> so now my priorities for this week are:
<tyhicks> Submitting some kdbus patches upstream
<tyhicks> Submitting our dbus-daemon mediation patches upstream
<mdeslaur> cool
<tyhicks> and, to a much lesser extent, testing a bug fix to precise's audit package and getting a test-audit.py in place
<tyhicks> that's it for me
<tyhicks> jjohansen: you're up
<tyhicks> (the bug fix is for LP: #1158500)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1158500 in audit (Ubuntu) "auditd fails to add rules when used in precise with -lts-quantal kernel" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1158500
<jjohansen> I'm working on apparmor this week. I've got a ppa upload to get out, and then some more ipc and stacking bugs to fix
<jjohansen> oh and I should try drowning the list in patches too, I suppose
<jjohansen> that is it for me, sarnold your up
<sarnold> I'm in happy place this week, I've got an nginx mir to finish, a security update to prepare, test, and release, and finish testing the patches from the ubuntu apparmor packaging when pushed into the upstream apparmor trunk
<mdeslaur> \o/ nginx in main
<mdeslaur> sarnold: any blockers so far?
<sarnold> mdeslaur: no, it's depressingly good code :) there's nearly nothing to complain about. I did find one funny cute little bug, but it is in code that we don't build and wouldn't have any real security impact anyway
<mdeslaur> sarnold: awesome!
<jdstrand> sarnold: in the past, the blocker was their release process. can you spend a few minutes looking at that and commenting in the bug. it may be all fine now (this was years ago)
<sarnold> mdeslaur: they wrote their own printf-style family of printing routines, which is pretty awesome, it's good stuff, but they missed a parameter in a printf -- and since they never caught it, I figure they need to use some gcc attributes to try to catch those -- if they can
<jdstrand> sarnold: (well, we never looked at it in depth cause of the release process)
<jdstrand> sarnold: I think someone already commented in the bug on that, but it would be nice for us to verify the claim
<sarnold> the one I found is nothing impressive, but there might be some I haven't spotted that might be more trouble.
<sarnold> jdstrand: yeah, I can spend some time working on that. I'm so far liking that they've got a branch for stable updates and a branch for development testing. I -hope- that they intend to support their stable branch for a while, it'd be nice if it isn't replaced immediately..
<sarnold> Oh yes, the administrivia from the sprint trip :) I knew I forgot somethng.
<sarnold> anyway, that's me covered, chrisccoulson you're up if you're here :)
<chrisccoulson> i am
<chrisccoulson> this week, i'll be getting firefox and thunderbird out
<chrisccoulson> and then working on the last couple of things to make oxide actually usable on the device (touch events and pinch to zoom)
<chrisccoulson> oxide works on maguro btw ;)
<chrisccoulson> that's me done :)
<jdstrand> chrisccoulson: did you see my questions above?
<chrisccoulson> jdstrand, yeah, i think we'll be able to do that
<jdstrand> chrisccoulson: should that be done via a non-debug ppa build?
<sarnold> chrisccoulson: nice :D
<chrisccoulson> yeah, i think so
<jdstrand> chrisccoulson: or would you just do that locally?
<chrisccoulson> i'll do another PPA build
<jdstrand> chrisccoulson: the urls are in the index.html page of that click pacakge I gave you. I can give them to you again if you want (and you can decide which are appropriate)
<jdstrand> chrisccoulson: cool, thanks
<jdstrand> chrisccoulson: as for the email-- maybe just upload the results to people.c.c and then give the link and a brief summary> "oxide rocks and can do more than qtwebkit" or similar. ie, don't spend a lot of time analyzing and formatting a great benchmarks email
<jdstrand> chrisccoulson: (obviously, if there are problems, we should file bugs, etc)
<jdstrand> anyhoo
<jdstrand> cool
<jdstrand> I guess its back to me then
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Highlighted packages
<jdstrand> The Ubuntu Security team will highlight some community-supported packages that might be good candidates for updating and or triaging. If you would like to help Ubuntu and not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so.
<jdstrand> See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details and if you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-security. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved.
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/opensaml2.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/restlet.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/linkchecker.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/prewikka.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/mpop.html
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Miscellaneous and Questions
<jdstrand> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
<jdstrand> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Feb 10 17:22:29 2014 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2014/ubuntu-meeting.2014-02-10-16.37.moin.txt
<jdstrand> mdeslaur, sbeattie, tyhicks, jjohansen, sarnold, ChrisCoulson: thanks!
<sarnold> thanks jdstrand!
<jjohansen> thanks jdstrand
<tyhicks> thanks
<sbeattie> jdstrand: thanks!
#ubuntu-meeting 2014-02-11
<jamespage> urm- did we all forget the time?
<smb> Not all... :-P
<jamespage> well not you at least smb
<arosales> 1600 utc
<arosales> according to the wiki
<gaughen> o/
 * jamespage is in a time warp
<jamespage> that is like 15 minutes ago right?
<smb> right
<jamespage> lol
<matsubara> yes
<jamespage> oh-dear
<matsubara> o/
<rharper> \o
<jamespage> adam_g, up for the chair?
<smb> o/
<rbasak> o\
<arosales> o/
<jamespage> (I can - have to run out for 5 mins now)
<jamespage> can't rather
<rharper> rbasak: heh
<arosales> jamespage gaughen and zul are next on the list
<arosales> gaughen, zul up for chairing?
 * zul is sprinting
<arosales> gaughen, ?
<arosales> adam_g, ?
 * gaughen avoids eye contact
<arosales> gaughen, looking right at you :-)
<arosales> gaughen, I can chair if you would like as I am next in the list
<arosales> after zul
 * gaughen is looking at her shoe. there's something on it
<arosales> #startmeeting ubuntu-server-team
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Feb 11 16:17:58 2014 UTC.  The chair is arosales. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:
<arosales> #topic Review ACTION points from previous meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<arosales> I don't see any actions from the precious meeting listed on the wiki
<arosales> #topic Trusty Development
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Trusty Development
<arosales> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TrustyTahr/ReleaseSchedule
<arosales> So we are coming up on Feature Freeze
<arosales> an important milestone
<arosales> Debian Import Freeze has passed
<arosales> and Beta 1 freeze is at the end of the month on the 27th
<arosales> for FF make sure folks are getting their packages uploaded
<arosales> #subtopic Release Bugs
<arosales> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-t-tracking-bug-tasks.html#server
<arosales> Looking at the high bugs we have 4
 * arosales will iterate though the high and any others folks ping with here
<arosales> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mod-auth-mysql/+bug/1243076
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1243076 in mod-auth-mysql (Ubuntu Trusty) "libapache2-mod-auth-mysql is missing in 13.10 amd64" [High,Confirmed]
<arosales> no one assigned yet.
<arosales> jamespage, are you currently looking after mysql?
<rharper> arosales: jamespage said he had to step out at the beginning
<arosales> ah the  5 min has elapsed I thought I could catch him
<arosales> any other folks interested in looking at mysql?
<arosales> #action gaughen follow up with jamespage on bug 1243076
<meetingology> ACTION: gaughen follow up with jamespage on bug 1243076
<ubottu> bug 1243076 in mod-auth-mysql (Ubuntu Trusty) "libapache2-mod-auth-mysql is missing in 13.10 amd64" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1243076
<arosales> thats right gaughen not off the hook ;-)
<arosales> https://bugs.launchpad.net/maas/+bug/1248283
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1248283 in juju-core (Ubuntu Trusty) "Juju deploy of Charm in MAAS fails because dbus fails" [High,Triaged]
<arosales> dbus task still out
<arosales> any folks able to take a look at the dbus task?
<jamespage> back now
<arosales> jamespage, bug 1243076
<ubottu> bug 1243076 in mod-auth-mysql (Ubuntu Trusty) "libapache2-mod-auth-mysql is missing in 13.10 amd64" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1243076
<arosales> dbus anyone?
<arosales> I think serge and rbasak had commented on the bug . . .
<arosales> hallyn, that is
<arosales> #action gaughen follow up on dbus task for  bug 1248283
<meetingology> ACTION: gaughen follow up on dbus task for  bug 1248283
<ubottu> bug 1248283 in juju-core (Ubuntu Trusty) "Juju deploy of Charm in MAAS fails because dbus fails" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1248283
<arosales> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/horizon/+bug/1259166
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1259166 in horizon (Ubuntu Trusty) "Fix lintian error" [High,Triaged]
<arosales> may be a bug for zul to take a look at after the sprint
<arosales> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/dovecot/+bug/1278897
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1278897 in dovecot (Ubuntu Trusty) "dovecot warns about moved ssl certs on upgrade" [High,Triaged]
<arosales> jamespage, looks you just triagged this one
<arosales> jamespage, any comments here for dovecot?
<jamespage> yeah - I was looking at that
<rbasak> I see bug 1248283 as mainly a juju issue. The dbus issue would be low priority, maybe just for upstream. juju can just not do that, and then won't have a problem.
<ubottu> bug 1248283 in juju-core (Ubuntu Trusty) "Juju deploy of Charm in MAAS fails because dbus fails" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1248283
<jamespage> I think the prompt it not policy compliant - so its an easy fix
<arosales> rbasak, can you comment in regards to dubs as it is confimred in that bug
<arosales> rbasak, mark priority accordingly with the comment would be appreciated.
<rbasak> arosales: I think my comment #17 already covers it
<rbasak> I'll mark dbus low to make it clear though.
<arosales> rbasak, importance still not set though
<arosales> jamespage, ack on dovecot are you going to be delegating or taking a look?
<arosales> #action jamespage to follow up on bug 1278897 (policy compliant)
<meetingology> ACTION: jamespage to follow up on bug 1278897 (policy compliant)
<ubottu> bug 1278897 in dovecot (Ubuntu Trusty) "dovecot warns about moved ssl certs on upgrade" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1278897
<arosales> #subtopic Blueprints
<arosales> #link http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-t/group/topic-t-servercloud-overview.html
<arosales> tread line is well off
<jamespage> arosales, I'll deal with it
<arosales> jamespage, thanks
<jamespage> arosales, no to worried about the trend line tbh
<arosales> jamespage, you feel ok with the highs that are at 0%
<arosales> perhaps not just updated?
<arosales> ie https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-1311-curtin
<arosales> smoser, is the assignee, but I think he is not available atm.
<jamespage> no
<arosales> #action smoser update servercloud-1311-curtin bp
<meetingology> ACTION: smoser update servercloud-1311-curtin bp
<arosales> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-1311-openstack-charms
<arosales> this one is yours jamespage
<serue> re bug 1248283, i haven't been following it.  if someone wants me to take a fresh look from lxc pov please ping me later
<ubottu> bug 1248283 in juju-core (Ubuntu Trusty) "Juju deploy of Charm in MAAS fails because dbus fails" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1248283
<jamespage> yeah - we have some catchup todo
<jamespage> but that bp is back loaded on the cycle so not to worried
<arosales> jamespage, https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-1311-ceph looks to be progressing but still in the red
<jamespage> yeah - I'd hoped to have uploaded firefly by now but its delayed a bit
 * arosales just looking at the high/essential red-progress BPs
<jamespage> at which point some of those WI go DONE
<arosales> jamespage, thanks for the update
<arosales> serue, thanks for the post
<arosales> serue, if hallyn was around I would ping him on that
<arosales> #action hallyn follow up on 1248283 from an lxc pov, ping serue to coordinate
<meetingology> ACTION: hallyn follow up on 1248283 from an lxc pov, ping serue to coordinate
<arosales> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-1311-mysql-alternatives also in the red
<arosales> another one assigned to you jamespage
<arosales> and cloud-init
<arosales> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-1311-cloud-init
<arosales> #action smoser update cloud-init BP
<meetingology> ACTION: smoser update cloud-init BP
<arosales> those are the high/essential BPs in the red, any others folks want to bring up?
<jamespage> mysql is progressing
<jamespage> active/active option via percona xtradb cluster is in the NEW queue for trusty as of yesterday
<jamespage> hope to get mysql-5.6 in the queue this week
<arosales> jamespage, ah good to hear, thanks for the update
<arosales> moving on
<arosales> #topic Server & Cloud Bugs (caribou)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Server & Cloud Bugs (caribou)
<caribou> arosales: nothing on my side this week, thanks
<arosales> caribou, ok thanks
<arosales> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (psivaa)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (psivaa)
<psivaa> Three types of failures:
<psivaa> minimal install on amd64, reports about 5Mb more than it used to be
<psivaa> test_mod_php failure on lamp server tests, i made an MP for the test to fix, that's awaiting server developers' approval
<psivaa> test_tomcat_daemon failure due to lack of entropy
<psivaa> sorry, hurriedly prepared list.
<rbasak> I think the solution for entropy is just to give the test /dev/urandom instead.
<psivaa> could somebody do that fix?
<rbasak> If there is a bigger discussion to have around cloud instances and entropy, then perhaps that's a blueprint level discussion item, but no need to hold up tomcat
<arosales> jamespage, you aware of minimal install gonig up on amd64?
<rbasak> psivaa: where does the test come from? ie. where does it need to be fixed?
<psivaa> rbasak: lp:ubuntu-test-cases/server
<jamespage> arosales, no
<jamespage> but I'm not going to worry about 5MB
<arosales> jamespage, ack
<psivaa> in that case we could increase the limit again in the server test cases
<jamespage> psivaa, that's the first time this cycle right?
<psivaa> rbasak: if you are working on that, could you do that also please. even if i do that it needs approval from you
<psivaa> jamespage: yes
<psivaa> started on 20140128 iirc
<rbasak> psivaa: approved https://code.launchpad.net/~psivaa/ubuntu-test-cases/mod_php-fix/+merge/204273
<rbasak> Do I need to do anything else?
<rbasak> Like actually merge it? Or will a bot do that?
<psivaa> rbasak: no you need to do that for this
<psivaa> i dont think there is a bot for the server test cases. but jamespage might know more
<jamespage> no bot
<psivaa> that's all from me though :)
<arosales> so 5mb increased ok with jamespage
<arosales> mege acked by rbasak for lamp server tests
<arosales> and rbasak suggested a fix for entropy on the tomcat tests
<arosales> psivaa, thanks
<arosales> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb)
<smb> Hi
<smb> So just a little to report ... not finial but I think I make same progress on 1268906
<smb> bug ssh ubuntu@10.55.60.35
<smb> aaaargh
<smb> bug 1268906
<ubottu> bug 1268906 in qemu-kvm (Ubuntu) "cpu soft lockup running kvm" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1268906
<smb> Otherwise in non-kernel related news xcp/xapi will be gone in Trusty
<smb> Thats all
<smb> ..
<arosales> thanks smb
<arosales> I don't see any oustanding actions of feedback needed from server in bug 1268906
<ubottu> bug 1268906 in qemu-kvm (Ubuntu) "cpu soft lockup running kvm" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1268906
<arosales> smb, correct?
<smb> arosales, no, I can reproduce it locally
<arosales> ah :-/
<arosales> smb, ok thanks for the update
<arosales> smb, sorry I read that as you "can't" reproduce locally. I see that you _can_ reproduce locally :-)
<arosales> in any case thanks smb
<arosales> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions regarding Ubuntu ARM Server (rbasak)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions regarding Ubuntu ARM Server (rbasak)
<smb> arosales, Yes we can, I mean I
<smb> ;)
<rbasak> Nothing new to report. Any questions for me?
<arosales> I take it no questions for rbasak
<arosales> #topic Ubuntu Server Team Events
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Ubuntu Server Team Events
<arosales> I think some folks were at FOSDOM
<rbasak> FOSDEM went well.
<arosales> and SCALE12x is coming up
<rbasak> Big audience for marcoceppi's juju talk
<rbasak> cfgmgmtcamp was after FOSDEM. I hear that went really well too.
<rbasak> Linaro Connect is coming up. In Macao, 3-7 March. Unfortunately I can't make it.
<arosales> good to hear re juju talk :-)
<arosales> ya I heard good thing about config mgmt camp
<arosales> any other events
<arosales> at the top of the hour
<arosales> #topic Open Discussion
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Open Discussion
<arosales> any other itesm?
<arosales> #topic Announce next meeting date and time
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Announce next meeting date and time
<arosales> NEXT MEETING: Tuesday 2014-02-18 at 1600 UTC
<arosales> thanks everyone for attending and participating
<arosales> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Feb 11 17:03:01 2014 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2014/ubuntu-meeting.2014-02-11-16.17.moin.txt
<jsalisbury> #startmeeting
<jsalisbury> ##
<jsalisbury> ## This is the Ubuntu Kernel Team weekly status meeting.
<jsalisbury> ##
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Feb 11 17:03:11 2014 UTC.  The chair is jsalisbury. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Trusty
<jsalisbury> # Meeting Etiquette
<jsalisbury> #
<jsalisbury> # NOTE: '..' indicates that you are finished with your input.
<jsalisbury> #       'o/' indicates you have something to add (please wait until you are recognized)
<jsalisbury> Roll Call for Ubuntu Kernel Weekly Status Meeting
<cking> o/
<kamal> o/
<ppisati> o/
<ogasawara> o/
<sforshee> o/
<bjf> o/
<henrix> o/
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] ARM Status (ppisati)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: ARM Status (ppisati)
<ppisati> Nothing new to report.
<ppisati> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
<jsalisbury> Release metrics and incoming bug data can be reviewed at the following link:
<jsalisbury> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/kt-meeting.txt
<jsalisbury> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Milestone Targeted Work Items (ogasawara)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Milestone Targeted Work Items (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> [LINK] https://launchpad.net/~canonical-kernel-distro-team/+upcomingwork
<ogasawara> [LINK] http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-t/canonical-kernel-distro-team.html
<ogasawara> || apw       || core-1311-kernel                || 5 work items ||
<ogasawara> ||           || core-1311-cross-compilation     || 2 work items ||
<ogasawara> ||           || core-1311-hwe-plans             || 1 work item  ||
<ogasawara> || bjf       || core-1311-dmraid2mdadm          || 1 work item  ||
<ogasawara> || ogasawara || core-1311-kernel                || 3 work items ||
<rtg> o/
<ogasawara> ||           || client-1311-xorg-general        || 1 work item  ||
<ogasawara> || smb       || servercloud-1311-openstack-virt || 6 work items ||
<ogasawara> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Trusty Development Kernel (ogasawara)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Trusty Development Kernel (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> We have uploaded the 3.13.0-8.27 Trusty kernel to the archive which
<ogasawara> pulled in the latest v3.13.2 upstream stable updates.  We are also
<ogasawara> starting to work on opening up our first v3.14 rebase which will be
<ogasawara> available from our ubuntu-trusty unstable branch.
<ogasawara> I want to also point out that the proposal for a 12.04.5 point release
<ogasawara> appears to have widespread support.  This 5th point release for Precise
<ogasawara> will provide the linux-lts-trusty kernel in 12.04.
<ogasawara> [LINK] https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2014-February/038042.html
<ogasawara> -----
<ogasawara> Important upcoming dates:
<ogasawara> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TrustyTahr/ReleaseSchedule
<ogasawara> Thurs Feb 20 - Feature Freeze (~1 weeks away)
<ogasawara> Thurs Feb 27 - Beta 1 (~2 weeks away)
<ogasawara> Thurs Mar 27 - Final Beta (~6 weeks away)
<ogasawara> Thurs Apr 03 - Kernel Freeze (~7 weeks away)
<ogasawara> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: CVE's
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: CVE's
<jsalisbury> The current CVE status can be reviewed at the following link:
<jsalisbury> http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/cve/pkg/ALL-linux.html
<jsalisbury> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Saucy/Quantal/Precise/Lucid (bjf/henrix/sconklin)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Saucy/Quantal/Precise/Lucid (bjf/henrix/sconklin)
<bjf> Status for the main kernels, until today (Nov. 26):
<bjf>   *   Lucid - Testing
<bjf>   * Precise - Testing
<bjf>   * Quantal - Testing
<bjf>   *   Saucy - Testing
<bjf>  
<bjf> We are in a holding pattern waiting to see if any regressions show up that would cause us
<bjf> to respin before the 12.04.4 release goes out.
<bjf>  
<bjf> Current opened tracking bugs details:
<bjf>   * http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/kernel-sru-workflow.html
<bjf> For SRUs, SRU report is a good source of information:
<bjf>   * http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/sru-report.html
<bjf>  
<bjf> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
<jsalisbury> Thanks everyone
<jsalisbury> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Feb 11 17:07:34 2014 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2014/ubuntu-meeting.2014-02-11-17.03.moin.txt
<kamal> thanks jsalisbury!   (long meeting)
<kamal> ;-)
#ubuntu-meeting 2014-02-12
<miseria> "la verdadera felicidad de un ser humano, se logra cuando deja de ser esclavo, de la avaricia y la codicia" bienvenidos: http://castroruben.com *temo_a_un_ser_sin_rival*
#ubuntu-meeting 2014-02-13
 * slangasek waves
<jodh> o/
<slangasek> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Feb 13 16:03:59 2014 UTC.  The chair is slangasek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
 * stgraber waves
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Lightning round
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Lightning round
<slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e barry doko stgraber jodh bdmurray slangasek cjwatson xnox stokachu)
<slangasek> jodh xnox stokachu barry bdmurray doko stgraber cjwatson slangasek
<jodh> * core-1311-upstart-roadmap:
<jodh>   - async spawn: Finished reworking job_process tests for async
<jodh>     (job+event to go...)
<jodh> * upstart:
<jodh>   - re-reviewed lp:~cameronnemo/upstart/ipv6.
<jodh> * misc:
<jodh>   - having fun with gmail migration :)
<jodh> ð
<xnox> * uploaded gnome-session/gsettings/unity upstart session jobs to
<xnox>   transition & support ubuntu- and gnome-settings-daemons.
<xnox> * click chroot session support patch proposed
<xnox> * working on finishing dmraid/mdadm transition (needs one more patch
<xnox>   to hw-detect and should be good to go). Intel raids are always
<xnox>   resyncing after reboot... not good.
<xnox>   - is it typical for ubuntu mdadm to resync on each boot?!
<xnox> * finished patches for phablet-test-run to support python2&3
<xnox> * updated bugs in patches to auopilot to dynamicaly detect resolution
<xnox> * make merge proposals to drop dbus-x11 from touch
<xnox> * initiated discussions to drop a load of gstreamer dependencies off
<xnox>   the touch image (laney has priliminary gstreamer split ready)
<xnox> * proposed in debian sendsigs to not kill processes that start with "@"
<xnox> * wrote patch to unity-greeter to dynamically generate logo on the
<xnox>   login screen (sick of 13.10 string). Ditto in progress for "About
<xnox>   this computer" screen. (design don't have time to update this stock
<xnox>   images timely, and it's poor use of their time)
<xnox> * experimenting with trying to get qt build with gtk3 theming (instead
<xnox>   of gtk2)
<xnox>   
<xnox> ..
 * xnox is off tomorrow.
<barry> xnox: what's going to happen with dbus-daemon (part of dbus-x11 iirc).  also, when will p-t-r support for py2&3 land?
<stgraber> xnox: none of my servers using mdadm never resynced on reboot. They do a resync once a month though by default.
<barry> *dbus-launch
<xnox> barry: dbus-daemon is not part of dbus-x11 and will stay.
<xnox> barry: dbus-launch will be gone, as nothing is using it.
<xnox> barry: if there is something using, it better declare a dependency on it =) or use other means e.g. dbus-daemon.
<barry> xnox: we'll have to figure something out for the ap tests.  iirc, several autopilot tests depend on it
<barry> (at least i've had to install/b-d on dbus-x11 to get some tests to work)
<barry> xnox: yes, exactly.  some packages are missing b-d/deps on dbus-x11 :(
<xnox> barry: they shouldn't.... as autopilot provides a bus.
<xnox> barry: dbus-launch is not useful on touch, since it pulls in libx11-6....
<barry> xnox: yeah, just saying.   i guess any problems will make themselves evident soon enough ;)
<slangasek> barry, xnox: I think at the sprint I asked for a write-up of the revised game plan for autopilot python3... did that get written down?  Would really like to be able to track the progress here :)
<barry> slangasek: i didn't.  but yes, once i figure out this upgrading problem, i'll get back to that :/
<slangasek> stokachu: hi, anything for us this week?
<slangasek> barry: ok
<slangasek> barry: hopefully you have good notes, so the details don't go stale :)
<slangasek> barry: your turn
<xnox> slangasek: so autopilot got released \o/
<barry> system-image: LP: #1277589 - very perplexing and difficult to reproduce, but progress is being made (i don't have a root cause yet, but i'll soon be capturing more debugging information via LP: #1279056).
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1277589 in ubuntu-download-manager ""FileNotFoundError: /var/lib/system-image/blacklist.tar.xz"" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1277589
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1279056 in Ubuntu system image "All SignatureErrors should include the checksums and file paths of the offending files" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1279056
<barry> debuntu: general py34 ftbfs work.  enum34 0.9.20-1 and 0.9.21-1.  looked into m2crypto ftbfs.  genshi 0.7 for python 3.4.  libvigraimpex 1.10.0+dfsg-3ubuntu1. nose 1.3.0-3.  LP: #1277670.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1277670 in pyruntest "FTBFS in trusty due to test failure" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1277670
<xnox> slangasek: thus we can be staging upgrade to autopilot to do re-exec with matching phablet-tools.
<barry> autopilot py3 work - ongoing; LP: #1277630; unity noimport branch (test for /usr/bin/window-mocker3)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1277630 in autopilot (Ubuntu) "Cannot run autopilot's own autopilot tests" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1277630
<barry> random: recovering from disk failure. dmb meeting.  reporting and working around unity/hud/ibus bugs that broke emacs keybindings (c-space and alt in two separate changes/bugs).
<barry> done
<bdmurray> +1 maintenance work
<bdmurray> fixed a build failure with moodle
<bdmurray> submitted debian bug 737908 re moodle
<bdmurray> mentored arges regarding SRU team work
<bdmurray> merged mpt's error branches
<bdmurray> tested retracing core dumps from swift
<ubottu> Debian bug 737908 in moodle "moodle: ftbfs source due to incorrect path for /var/lib/moodle" [Important,Fixed] http://bugs.debian.org/737908
<xnox> stgraber: thanks. so it must be me here. And you do incremental mdadm assembly as is the default? (you don't override udev rules / initramfs)
<bdmurray> tested submission of kernel oops to errors
<bdmurray> preparing backfill job rls:srcpkg:version crash counters
<bdmurray> setup errors in canonistack again :-(
<bdmurray> resolved apt-clone bug 1254447 regarding adding files it shouldn't
<bdmurray> uploaded new version of apt-clone to trusty
<ubottu> bug 1254447 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu) "Upgrade to 13.10 crashes because of hidden file" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1254447
<bdmurray> package to team mapping work (using old MIR reports)
<bdmurray> worked with colleagues in Portland
<slangasek> barry: ah, do you have a bug # for the ibus bug?  I was quite surprised to have Ctrl-space here brining up the ibus menu on me, and solved this by killing ibus ;)
<bdmurray> â done
<doko> portland beer event?
<stgraber> xnox: right, my setup is default Ubuntu (12.04 though)
<xnox> stgraber: thanks.
<doko> - MIR's
<doko> - build separate gccgo-4.9
<doko> - python build fixes, besides some autopkg test failures we should be ready for 3.4 as the default
<doko> - look at the gcc ftbfs on powerpc, found issue, and fixed
<doko> - gdb update
<doko> - worked with reportlab upstream on the 3.0 issues and packages (although nobody
<doko>  did get in contact with hplip upstream to port to python3)
<doko> (done)
<stgraber> system-image:
<stgraber>  - Finally merged the porter branch into the server
<stgraber>  - Wrote a bunch more tests (back to 100% code coverage)
<stgraber>  - Blogged about setting up your server: https://www.stgraber.org/2014/02/11/your-own-ubuntu-touch-image-server/
<stgraber>  - Talked with PES on some of their proposed addition and how to change them so they can be merged
<stgraber> LXC:
<barry> slangasek: will search for it, but there are two solutions.  recommended: run ibus-setup; what i did: apt-get purge ibus && reboot :)
<stgraber>  - rc1 is this week, so rushing any remaining feature in. Final release is still planned for next week, just ahead of Feature Freeze.
<stgraber>  - We got overlayfs now allowed for unprivileged containers (gives us, cloning, snapshots and lxc-start-ephemeral), I'll spend some time porting arkose to this so it runs entirely unprivileged too
<stgraber>  - Blogged about running Google Chrome (and any other software really) in an unprivileged container: https://www.stgraber.org/2014/02/09/lxc-1-0-gui-in-containers/
<stgraber>  - Working on the LXC 1.0 release announcement (trying not to forget anything while keeping it short, pretty difficult...)
<stgraber>  - Went through most of our coverity issues, sent a bunch of fixes for those. Same with all bug reports.
<stgraber>  - Added a new aufs backingstore driver (for privileged containers only).
<barry> doko: \o/
<stgraber>  - Fixed a couple of bugs with the pre-generated templates (the biggest one being a lack of /dev/shm).
<stgraber>  - Wrote some more tests (including regression testing for the lxc-autostart issue which cyphermox had to patch last week).
<stgraber> Other:
<stgraber>  - Fixed a couple of issues with samba, I can now get a Domain Controller online!
<stgraber> (DONE)
<cjwatson> Spent most of the week adding HTTPS support to d-i.  This is now code-complete, although there are still some landings to finish off, and we'll probably want to backport it to precise.  This has involved:
<cjwatson>  * Fixing up base-installer/debootstrap to avoid blowing up when encountering %-encoded characters in wget output;
<slangasek> doko: we do not deny that there was beer!
<cjwatson>  * Fixing fetch-url to handle GNU wget's different no-such-file output and invocation
<cjwatson>  * Moving /usr/bin/wget.gnu to /usr/bin/wget in wget-udeb
<cjwatson>  * Adding HTTPS support to fetch-url, kickseed, choose-mirror, base-installer, and apt-setup
<cjwatson>  * Building wget-udeb into d-i images, and adding an SSL_CERTS local configuration variable there
<cjwatson>  * Installing apt-transport-https and ca-certificates at the end of debootstrap when installing from HTTPS
<cjwatson> OpenSSH 6.5p1 packaging.
<cjwatson> Rebootstrapped freebsd-{buildutils,glue,libs}, since there was another package stuck in -proposed that needed freebsd-libs.
<cjwatson> ..
<barry> slangasek: LP: #1278511
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1278511 in ibus (Ubuntu) "CTRL-Space no longer works under Unity" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1278511
<xnox> doko: hplip is in progress, no? https://bugs.launchpad.net/hplip/+bug/1275353
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1275353 in HPLIP "Make HPLIP working with Python 3" [Wishlist,In progress]
<barry> probably a dupe: LP: #1278569
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1278569 in ibus (Ubuntu) "ibus breaks emacs24 control-space keybinding" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1278569
<barry> (and the other one that hurt me: LP: #1108064)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1108064 in unity (Ubuntu) "HUD messes up application's Alt key bindings" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1108064
<doko> xnox, ahh, I didn't see that. last time I pinged till was at the sprint
<slangasek>  * a lot of customer-related calls this week
<slangasek>  * doing some work with CTS to document interop matrix issues for NFSv4+Kerberos
<slangasek>  * working on getting the job req together for a new Java maintainer role
<slangasek>  * time-consuming Debian TC discussions :)
<slangasek>  * spent some time with the DebConf team trying to bootstrap a summit environment, to evaluate it for DebConf14
<slangasek>  * driving my outstanding merges back down to zero
<slangasek> (done)
<slangasek> other questions?
<slangasek> [TOPIC] UDS
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: UDS
<slangasek> hopefully everyone's seen the announcement mail, next vUDS is coming up on March 11
<cjwatson> merges at zero haha I wish
<doko> merges at zero?
<cjwatson> 16:18 <slangasek>  * driving my outstanding merges back down to zero
<doko> ahh, his ...
<slangasek> so please start thinking about what you want to discuss next month, and registering/targeting blueprints
<slangasek> cjwatson: well... not counting the grub package ;)
<cjwatson> yeah well
<slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<slangasek> anything else?
<slangasek> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Feb 13 16:24:47 2014 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2014/ubuntu-meeting.2014-02-13-16.03.moin.txt
 * slangasek lets y'all off the hook then :)
<slangasek> (meetings are so much shorter without ev!)
<slangasek> thanks all :)
<doko> short meeting, nice
<stgraber> thanks!
<jodh> thanks!
 * cjwatson goes back to base-installer merge from hell
<cjwatson> one of those where you have to back off and undo a load of unnecessary delta before even starting
#ubuntu-meeting 2015-02-09
<mdeslaur> \o
<jdstrand> hi!
<tyhicks> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Feb  9 16:30:15 2015 UTC.  The chair is tyhicks. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<tyhicks> The meeting agenda can be found at:
<tyhicks> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Announcements
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Announcements
<tyhicks> We have created a new role in our rotation schedule. "Triage" has been split into "CVE Triage" and "Bug Triage".
<tyhicks> Gianfranco Costamagna (LocutusOfBorg) provided debdiffs for precise-utopic for virtualbox (LP: #1413603)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1413603 in virtualbox (Ubuntu) "virtualbox multiple security vulnerabilities" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1413603
<tyhicks> Otto Kekaelaeinen (otto) provided debdiffs for trusty and utopic for mariadb-5.5 (LP: #1414755)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1414755 in mariadb-5.5 (Ubuntu) "USN-2480-1: MySQL vulnerabilities partially also applies to MariaDB" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1414755
<tyhicks> Thomas Ward (teward) provided a debdiff for utopic for wireshark (LP: #1418211)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1418211 in wireshark (Ubuntu Trusty) "[Security] Wireshark Vulnerabilities (February 2015)" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1418211
<tyhicks> Joe Damato (ice799) provided a debdiff for precise for libfcgi (LP: #1418778)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1418778 in libfcgi (Ubuntu) "Stack smashing while using a lot of connections" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1418778
<tyhicks> Those four contributions are very much appreciated and will keep Ubuntu users secure. Great job! :)
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly stand-up report
<jdstrand> indeed-- lots of contributions. awesome! :)
<tyhicks> jdstrand: you're up
<tyhicks> yes, great contributions! :)
<jdstrand> this week I plan to work on helping define snappy hardware access
<jdstrand> and also picking up a bit on snappy fingerprint
<jdstrand> I'll also be working on an embargoed issue
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: you're up
<mdeslaur> I'm working on updates, as usual...ntp is going out today, and I have krb5 to test
<mdeslaur> that's it, sbeattie, you're up
<sbeattie> I'm jumping back in to the rotation, and am on Community this week.
<sbeattie> I'm testing my binutils update (finally!) and will release that today.
<sbeattie> After that, I'll jump back on gcc-pie-for-amd64.
<sbeattie> That's it for me; tyhicks, you're up.
<tyhicks> I'm jumping back in the rotation, as well
<tyhicks> I'm in the new bug triage role this week
<tyhicks> I need to fix some tools and close out a lot of invalid bug tasks
<tyhicks> I've finalized v4 of the dbus-daemon AppArmor mediation patch set and need to finish testing it and then attach the patches to the upstream bug
<tyhicks> I still haven't gotten to proposing v2 of the libapparmor API changes but need to do that ASAP
<tyhicks> I should be able to start on that this afternoon
<tyhicks> the patch update was put on the backburner last week since upstream drastically changed their fix for one of the CVEs
<tyhicks> it looks like their tree has settled down and that I should go back to fixing those issues in patch
<tyhicks> that's probably all that I'll get to this week
<tyhicks> jjohansen: you're up
<jjohansen> So it seems I have most of the stack from last week and a few more items as well. There is an apparmor meeting this week, with some discussion needed around the kernel interface context (mode values), the is any v2 libapparmor aa_features API discussion an review that hits, Casey's LSM stacking patch
<jjohansen> I still need to work on the second revision of the deleted socket mediation bug
<jjohansen> and of course continue with the kernel code cleanup
<jjohansen> I think that is it from me, sarnold you're up
<sarnold> I'm on CVE triage this week; I'm hoping to return to the horizon update and finally make forward progress there again, as well as get the hang of the serverstack cloud for testing openstack updates. there's also a backlog of MIRs outstanding, I may get to those during testing runs, if the testing runs happen :)
<sarnold> that's it for me, looks like no chris, tyhicks?
<jdstrand> I think chrisccoulson is here
<chrisccoulson> hi :)
<jdstrand> hi! :)
<chrisccoulson> This week, I'll be getting a new oxide release out and continuing with stuff in https://launchpad.net/oxide/+milestone/branch-1.6
<chrisccoulson> And that's about it :)
<sarnold> sorry chrisccoulson, not sure how my tab key and I failed :)
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Highlighted packages
<tyhicks> The Ubuntu Security team will highlight some community-supported packages that might be good candidates for updating and or triaging. If you would like to help Ubuntu and not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so.
<tyhicks> See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details and if you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-security. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved.
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/virtualbox-guest-additions-iso.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/rc.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/libfpdi-php.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/libapache-poi-java.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/cabextract.html
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Miscellaneous and Questions
<tyhicks> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
<tyhicks> jdstrand, mdeslaur, sbeattie, jjohansen, sarnold, chrisccoulson: thanks!
<tyhicks> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Feb  9 16:54:40 2015 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2015/ubuntu-meeting.2015-02-09-16.30.moin.txt
<mdeslaur> thanks tyhicks!
<jjohansen> thank tyhicks
<jdstrand> tyhicks: thanks! :)
<sbeattie> tyhicks: thanks!
<sarnold> thanks tyhicks!
#ubuntu-meeting 2015-02-10
<coreycb> o/
<arges> o/
<lutostag> o/
<smb> o/
<hallyn> \o
<matsubara> o/
<apw> o\
<lutostag> #startmeeting ubuntu-server-team
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Feb 10 16:02:44 2015 UTC.  The chair is lutostag. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:
<lutostag> #topic Review ACTION points from previous meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<lutostag> doesnt look like there are any action items from last time assuming "gaughen to establish new qa-team point of contact for server team" made progress
<gnuoy> o/
<smoser> o/
<rharper> \o
<chiluk> o/
<rbasak> o/
<zul> hi
<lutostag> #topic Vivid Development
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Vivid Development
<gaughen> lutostag, THAT IS DONE
<gaughen> AAAH DAMN ALL CAPS
<gaughen> lutostag, that is done
<gaughen> sorry, didn't mean to shout
<lutostag> gaughen: thanks :)
<lutostag> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/VividVervet/ReleaseSchedule
<jamespage> o/
<lutostag> Feature Freeze and DI Freeze the 19th
<gaughen> \o
<jamespage> get those version bumps in now or you'll have to ask for exceptions!
<lutostag> #subtopic Release Bugs
<lutostag> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-v-tracking-bug-tasks.html#ubuntu-server
<lutostag> cloud init bugs are the high ones I see, no critical
<lutostag> still a ways out to be really worrying on that
<lutostag> #subtopic Blueprints
<lutostag> #link http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-v/group/topic-v-server.html
<lutostag> kilo is looking good! :)
<lutostag> #topic Server & Cloud Bugs (caribou)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Server & Cloud Bugs (caribou)
<lutostag> or another contact?
<lutostag> that's ok we'll move on for now
<lutostag> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee, arges)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee, arges)
<smb> Nothing hear here. Please move along.
<lutostag> smb: thanks
<lutostag> #topic Ubuntu Server Team Events
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Ubuntu Server Team Events
<lutostag> so hopefully you guys have gotten in your ODS stuff, anything else?
<beisner> it's taco tuesday.
<jamespage> no its freedom friday - but on a tuesday still
<hallyn> yum
<lutostag> great
<lutostag> #topic Open Discussion
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Open Discussion
<lutostag> anything else?
<lutostag> #topic Announce next meeting date and time
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Announce next meeting date and time
<lutostag> same time +7days, same channel :)
<lutostag> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Feb 10 16:14:17 2015 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2015/ubuntu-meeting.2015-02-10-16.02.moin.txt
<gnuoy> thanks lutostag
<beisner> thanks, lutostag
<lutostag> zul: seems like your chair next
<lutostag> :)
<lutostag> or arosales -- he doesnt get a break...
<jsalisbury> #startmeeting
<jsalisbury> ##
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Feb 10 17:00:06 2015 UTC.  The chair is jsalisbury. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<jsalisbury> ## This is the Ubuntu Kernel Team weekly status meeting.
<jsalisbury> ##
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Vivid
<jsalisbury> # Meeting Etiquette
<jsalisbury> #
<jsalisbury> # NOTE: '..' indicates that you are finished with your input.
<jsalisbury> #       'o/' indicates you have something to add (please wait until you are recognized)
<smb> o/
<jsalisbury> Roll Call for Ubuntu Kernel Weekly Status Meeting
<kamal> o/
<cking> \o
<henrix> o/
<arges> o/
<bjf> o/
<sforshee> o/
<ogasawara> o/
<chiluk> /O\
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
<jsalisbury> Release metrics and incoming bug data can be reviewed at the following link:
<jsalisbury> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/kt-meeting.txt
<apw> o/
<jsalisbury> ..
<ppisati> o/
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Vivid Development Kernel (ogasawara)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Vivid Development Kernel (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> Our Vivid kernel has been rebased to v3.18.5 upstream stable.  It's
<ogasawara> been uploaded to the archive, 3.18.0-13.14.  Please test and let us
<ogasawara> know your results.
<ogasawara> We would like to push the v3.19 based kernel we have up to the archive
<ogasawara> soon.  We are just cleaning up some DKMS drivers before we do so.  For anyone interested in getting an early preview, we have a v3.19 based
<ogasawara> kernel available for testing in our ckt PPA.
<ogasawara> -----
<ogasawara> Important upcoming dates:
<ogasawara> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/VividVervet/ReleaseSchedule
<ogasawara> Thurs Feb 19 - 14.04.2 Point Release (~1 week away, yes this was
<ogasawara> delayed)
<ogasawara> Thurs Feb 26 - Beta 1 Freeze (~2 weeks away)
<ogasawara> Thurs Mar 26 - Fina l Beta (~6 weeks away)
<ogasawara> Thurs Apr 09 - Kernel Freeze (~8 weeks away)
<ogasawara> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: CVE's
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: CVE's
<jsalisbury> The current CVE status can be reviewed at the following link:
<jsalisbury> http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/cve/pkg/ALL-linux.html
<jsalisbury> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Utopic/Trusty/Precise/Lucid (bjf/henrix/kamal/arges)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Utopic/Trusty/Precise/Lucid (bjf/henrix/kamal/arges)
<bjf> Status for the main kernels, until today:
<bjf>   *   Lucid - Kernel Prep Week
<bjf>   * Precise - Kernel Prep Week
<bjf>   *  Trusty - Kernel Prep Week
<bjf>   *  Utopic - Kernel Prep Week
<bjf>  
<bjf> Current opened tracking bugs details:
<bjf>   * http://kernel.ubuntu.com/sru/kernel-sru-workflow.html
<bjf> For SRUs, SRU report is a good source of information:
<bjf>   * http://kernel.ubuntu.com/sru/sru-report.html
<bjf>  
<bjf>  
<bjf> Schedule:
<bjf>  
<bjf> Current cycle had ended. Waiting for next cycle to start on Feb. 08.
<bjf> cycle: 06-Feb through 28-Feb
<bjf> ====================================================================
<bjf>          06-Feb   Last day for kernel commits for this cycle
<bjf> 08-Feb - 14-Feb   Kernel prep week.
<bjf> 15-Feb - 28-Feb   Bug verification; Regression testing; Release
<bjf> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
<jsalisbury> Thanks everyone
<jsalisbury> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Feb 10 17:03:03 2015 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2015/ubuntu-meeting.2015-02-10-17.00.moin.txt
<kamal> thanks jsalisbury
#ubuntu-meeting 2015-02-12
<sil2100> o/
<mvo> hi
<caribou> o/
<mvo> steve is sick today
<barry> \o
<mvo> so I will just run the show
<mvo> $ echo $(shuf -e barry doko stgraber jodh bdmurray slangasek caribou infinity mvo sil2100 robru cyphermox)
<mvo> robru slangasek bdmurray mvo cyphermox sil2100 infinity jodh barry stgraber caribou doko
<mvo> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Feb 12 16:01:48 2015 UTC.  The chair is mvo. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<cyphermox> oh :)
<mvo> [TOPIC] Lightning round
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Lightning round
<robru> oooh, me first
<mvo> $ echo $(shuf -e barry doko stgraber jodh bdmurray slangasek caribou infinity mvo sil2100 robru cyphermox)
<mvo>  robru slangasek bdmurray mvo cyphermox sil2100 infinity jodh barry stgraber caribou doko
<robru> * rewrote citrain build.py from scratch
<robru>   - increased test coverage from 18% to 100% (overall coverage increased from 63% to 75%)
<robru>   - replaced single 600-line function with 4 classes that have an average method length of 11 lines.
<robru>   - used object oriented inheritance to promote code reuse and consistency.
<robru>   - spent the entire week doing test rebuilds to ensure I don't regress any features from the previous version. found a few cases that regressed, and fixed them.
<robru> (done)
<barry> robru: \o/
<bdmurray> wow, I don't even want to go after that
<mvo> woah, impressive
<bdmurray> :-(
<robru> barry: thanks for the review ;-)
<sil2100> robru: \o/
<bdmurray> fixed on errors bug LP: #1419878 regarding timeouts communicating with Launchpad
<mvo> robru: \o/
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1419878 in Errors "default view doesn't seem to cross lines corresponding to fixed bugs" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1419878
<bdmurray> fixed issue (in errors and daisy) looking up binaries in a source package like llvm-toolchain-snapshot
<bdmurray> tried to modify cql code to update Counters column family (not working)
<bdmurray> finished SRU team training with tjaalton
<bdmurray> uploaded T and U SRUs fixing apport bug LP: #1084979
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1084979 in apport (Ubuntu Utopic) "Submitting error report asks confounding questions" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1084979
<bdmurray> LP: #1084979 wrote a test case for apport bug, verified it on Trusty
<bdmurray> committed totem apport package hook change to handle UI being None
<bdmurray> backport of apport changes to get apport-noui working on trusty
<bdmurray> investigation into apport bug LP: #1419061
<bdmurray> sponsored cvsps bug fix for LP: #1413084
<bdmurray> sponsored vivid fix for apt-listchanges bug (LP: #8398378)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1419061 in apport (Ubuntu) "detect all packages as not genuine" [Critical,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1419061
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1413084 in cvsps (Debian) "cvsps chokes on servers that print more than one "M" response to "version" command" [Unknown,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1413084
<ubottu> Error: Launchpad bug 8398378 could not be found
<bdmurray> sponsored patch for samba bug LP: #1416906
<bdmurray> updated bug-bot to comment on unexpected end of file package install failures
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1416906 in samba (Ubuntu Trusty) "force user no longer works" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1416906
<bdmurray> closed a ton of corrupt package apport-package reports
<bdmurray> added utopic apt-cdrom identities to bug bot
<bdmurray> talked to cjwatson about bug LP: #1384797 (Vivid Contents.gz is out of date)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1384797 in Launchpad itself "Contents generation races with publisher" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1384797
<bdmurray> discussed bug 1308838 with mvo
<bdmurray> pinged webops about some error tracker retracers being stopped
<bdmurray> patch pilot
<bdmurray> setup and configuration of canonical vpn
<bdmurray> investigation into uvt virtual machine creation failures
<ubottu> Error: Launchpad bug 1308838 could not be found
<bdmurray> â done
<mvo> misc:
<mvo> - performance review
<mvo> vivid:
<mvo> - Review/sponsor aptitude #1399582
<mvo> - unattended-upgrades: merge fixes/patches, release new version
<mvo> - update-manager: precise SRU upload
<mvo> snappy:
<mvo> - lots of work on the go-port, lots of bugfixes, features and new tests
<mvo> - debug/fix image build failure due to gid change
<mvo> - some fixes for networkless operations
<mvo> (done)
<cyphermox>  * verified SRU for bug 1361595; oem installs on server.
<cyphermox>    - found out that starting the OEM install on server is broken, will look into it.
<ubottu> bug 1361595 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Utopic) "OSError: [Errno 25] Inappropriate ioctl for device" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1361595
<cyphermox>  * completed investigation plymouth bug 1386005 (from last week):
<cyphermox>    - turns out it's more of a kernel drm issue.
<ubottu> bug 1386005 in plymouth (Ubuntu) "Password not accepted graphical boot for encrypted root system" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1386005
<cyphermox>  * prepared merge for partman-auto 118 -> 125
<cyphermox>    - main change is / and /usr in the same partition.
<cyphermox>    - will upload as soon as the meeting is done.
<cyphermox>  * investigated ppc64el bootloader installation issues
<cyphermox> (done)
<sil2100> o/
<sil2100> - Landing team work, silos coordination, preparing landing e-mails
<sil2100> - Testing with QA the new temporary spreadsheet tarball/click tracker
<sil2100> - Handling an emergency hot-fix for the previously released ubuntu-rtm milestone image
<sil2100>   * Big thanks to cjwatson and wgrant for setting up the derived-series
<sil2100>   * Publishing the packages to 14.09-factory and building a new image with it
<sil2100>   * Coordinating testing and releasing of the fix
<sil2100>   * Preparation for another batch of changes
<sil2100> - Learning how to build and promote images on nusakan
<sil2100> - Work on a quick-fix for the infinite-resync merging problem in CI Train
<sil2100> - Poking IS to get platform access on lillypilly
<sil2100>   * Looking into preparing a new custom tarball for ubuntu-rtm mako
<sil2100> - Discussing possibilities of using gatekeeper jobs for autopilot-check
<sil2100> - Submitted the standing FFe for touch packages in vivid
<sil2100> - Preparing sync of tzdata to ubuntu-rtm (waiting for promotion to happen)
<sil2100> - Analysing a strange case of changelog corruption in a CI Train landing
<sil2100> - Formalities (documenting) related to this weeks milestone
<sil2100> - Discussions regarding next ubuntu-rtm milestones
<sil2100> - Limited work on the archive diff automated scripts
<sil2100> (done)
<jodh> I guess no infinity, so...
<jodh> * snappy:
<stgraber> infinity's in hong kong
<jodh>   - Spent 1 day on images testing + test report.
<jodh>   - Lots of code reviews.
<jodh>   - MPs:
<jodh>     - lp:~jamesodhunt/snappy/show-upgrade-details
<jodh>     - lp:~jamesodhunt/snappy/handle-no-newer-si-revision
<jodh>     - lp:~jamesodhunt/snappy/add-NeedsReboot-to-part
<jodh>     - lp:~jamesodhunt/snappy/list-show-reboot-message
<jodh>   - Meeting with barry to discuss snappy+system-image.
<jodh>   - Working on bug 1412737.
<ubottu> bug 1412737 in snappy-ubuntu "snappy on grub systems should detect a broken boot and fall back to the other root partition on power cycling." [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1412737
<jodh>   - TODO:
<jodh>     - Land grub changes for bug 1412737.
<jodh>     - Get outstanding MPs landed.
<jodh>     - Perf review.
<jodh> ï¬
<jodh> slacker
<barry> si: LP: #1419027.  LP: #1399687.  general bug triaging.  strill trying to debug udm test failures so 3.0 can get released (LP: #1411866 & LP: #1413265).  prep/testing for 3.0
<barry> snappy: stuff, meetings, discussions, etc.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1419027 in Ubuntu system image "Add a D-Bus method to perform a "production line reset"" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1419027
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1399687 in Ubuntu system image "Provide "version_detail" for latest revision on server" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1399687
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1411866 in ubuntu-download-manager (Ubuntu) "Unconstrained download to a directory w/o permission crashes udm" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1411866
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1413265 in ubuntu-download-manager (Ubuntu) "Missing destination files" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1413265
<barry> other: python issue 23399 (venv relative symlinks). pycon administrivia.  LP: #1419695.  cloud-init py3 follow up.  code reviews.  performance reviews.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1419695 in pip "Should default to --user to not fail default pip install usage" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1419695
<barry> --done--
<stgraber> in CPT last week, traveling on Monday, fixed procps in LXC, working on getting lxd 0.1 out, preparing for upcoming travel (next week) and doing random admin stuff. (DONE)
<caribou> Wow, that's condensed :)
<caribou> Makedumpfile :
<caribou> - Upload of Firmware assisted dump support for ppc64el to Debian
<caribou> CUPS : SRU for bug #1352809 (-h override)
<ubottu> bug 1352809 in cups (Ubuntu Utopic) "/usr/bin/lp on Trusty using -h option doesn't work as expected" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1352809
<caribou> Investigate grub-pc migration bug
<caribou> btw, who's playing with grub these days ?
<caribou> (done)
<caribou> I might need some help with that last one
 * cyphermox waves to caribou
<caribou> cyphermox: ok, I might ping you 'bout stuff sometimes
<cyphermox> sure.
<mvo> no doko?
<mvo> [TOPIC] AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<mvo> do we have any :) ?
<mvo> if not, I guess thats a short meeting
<mvo> 3
<mvo> 2
<mvo> 1
<mvo> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Feb 12 16:15:07 2015 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2015/ubuntu-meeting.2015-02-12-16.01.moin.txt
<caribou> thanks mvo !
<barry> thanks!
<mvo> thanks all!
<jodh> thanks!
<sil2100> o/
<cjwatson> bdmurray: I'm nearly finished with that contents bug, just writing an end-to-end functional test for it
<bdmurray> cjwatson: oh, great! thanks
#ubuntu-meeting 2016-02-15
<Laney> !dmb-ping
<ubottu> cyphermox, infinity, Laney, micahg, xnox, bdmurray, stgraber: DMB ping
<Laney> ?
<cyphermox> yo
<coreycb> o/
<cyphermox> so, did we get a final list of packages for the openstack package set?
 * cyphermox checks
<coreycb> cyphermox, I don't think so
<cyphermox> ah well
<cyphermox> we can start with the list you already have and add whatever might be missing later
<coreycb> cyphermox, essentially it will be this (or a subset of) https://github.com/openstack/requirements/blob/master/global-requirements.txt
<micahg> o/
<coreycb> cyphermox, plus the core packages which I can give you a list of
<coreycb> cyphermox, I can put together a better list after the meeting if you want
<coreycb> cyphermox, but for now, the core packages are : http://paste.ubuntu.com/15075079/
#ubuntu-meeting 2016-02-16
<gaughen> it's me running the server mtg today
<teward> o/
<gaughen> let me pull up the cheatsheet
<cpaelzer> o/
<rharper> oh ?
<jgrimm> o/
<rharper> \o
<kickinz1> o/
<hallyn> \o
<rharper> gaughen: I had planned to run with it
<jgrimm> rharper, i guess you can be next week. :)
<gaughen> oooh, you can do it rharper
<rharper> this or next
<rharper> ok
<rharper> #startmeeting ubuntu-server-team
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Feb 16 16:01:49 2016 UTC.  The chair is rharper. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:
<rharper> ok
<rharper> #topic Review ACTION points from previous meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<rharper> looking at the notes that jgrimm kindly just uploaded
<jgrimm> just barely
<rharper> smoser: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/cloud-init/+bug/1543025 was an action item
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1543025 in cloud-init (Ubuntu Xenial) "Wrong UTC zoneinfo in cloud-images" [High,Triaged]
<smoser> i'll be doin some cloud-init work this week. so i'll be more on that
<rharper> ok
<rharper> i'll keep it down for next week then ?
<rharper> #action smoser to update https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/cloud-init/+bug/1543025
<meetingology> ACTION: smoser to update https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/cloud-init/+bug/1543025
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1543025 in cloud-init (Ubuntu Xenial) "Wrong UTC zoneinfo in cloud-images" [High,Triaged]
<rharper> I've no more actions to review
<rharper> moving on
<rharper> #topic Xenial Development
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Xenial Development
<rharper> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/XenialXerus/ReleaseSchedule
<rharper> from the link, we can see it's just about FeatureFreeze time
<rharper> this Thursday
<rharper> the 18th
<rharper> if you've a merge assigned and it appears like it's not going to be ready by the freeze, please go head and prepare the justification and update your merge bugs
<rharper> moving onward
<rharper> #subtopic Release Bugs
<rharper> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-w-tracking-bug-tasks.html#ubuntu-server
<rharper> looks like a bunch of fun ones in there
<cpaelzer> for certain degrees of fun ^^
<teward> "fun" is a headache for me in this case - nginx in Debian has a whole plugin update that isn't 'released' yet so I have to nitpick from Debian git to pull the next nginx into Ubuntu before featurefreeze
<teward> (which is why my "update nginx" task is still INPROGRESS) - i'd like some advising on whether that's sane or not, though
<jgrimm> teward, i'm assuming rbasak can take a look/advise for you.
<teward> yep, i was going to ask him anyways :)
<jgrimm> :)
<teward> granted, that's assuming my 'net stays up today :)
<teward> (that's it for me)
<rharper> #topic Server & Cloud Bugs (caribou)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Server & Cloud Bugs (caribou)
<caribou> clamav merge (LP: #1540491) completed & uploaded; sitting in -proposed & all test passed
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1540491 in clamav (Ubuntu) "Please merge clamav 0.99+dfsg-1 (main) from Debian stable" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1540491
<rharper> caribou: nice!
<caribou> uploaded makedumpfile-1.5.9-5 to trusty-backports so network kernel dump is possible
<caribou> & I'd need some experienced core dev review of a package rename for trusty/universe (mstflint4)
<caribou> other than that I'm good
<rharper> cool!
<rharper> any questions for caribou
<rharper> cool, thanks caribou
<rharper> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (matsubara)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (matsubara)
<rharper> ok, moving on
<rharper> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee, arges)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee, arges)
<smb> Not much from kernel. I guess being at kernel 4.4 isn't much of news by now. And no we won't go 4.5 in case there is still doubt. Has anybody issues found with 4.4 to bring up? Oh and not kernel but there is now a shiny libvirt-1.3.1 in Xenial. If this causes issues please speak up (file bugs) as soon as possible.
<caribou> smb: \o/
<rharper> smb: nice!
<hallyn> smb: well, bug 1531747 :)
<ubottu> bug 1531747 in linux (Ubuntu Xenial) "overlay: mkdir fails if directory exists in lowerdir in a user namespace" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1531747
<hallyn> kinda important, but i'll push on it later elsewhere
<sforshee> hallyn: that will be fixed soon
<hallyn> sforshee: yay!
<rharper> anything else for smb?
<kickinz1> Bug 1532145 is being worked on right now.
<ubottu> bug 1532145 in linux (Ubuntu) "Kernel Panic wrt btrfs while sbuild/schroot" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1532145
<hallyn> smb: thanks for the libvirt merge
<hallyn> (and arges)
<kickinz1> (overlay +btrfs)
<arges> so glad its done
<rharper> hehe
<arges> smb++
<smb> yeah :)
<rharper> thanks kickinz1
<smb> kickinz1, yeah I think cking is actively trying to bisect
<kickinz1> seems he found some fix to check with upstream today.
<smb> I just noticed
<cking> i've found the issue, and upstream are dithering about a fix as it's actually a design flaw in btrfs
<smb> Why am I not that surprised...
 * cking discussing it with upstream as we speak :-/
<smb> thx cking
<kickinz1> cking: thanks!
<rharper> #topic Upcoming Call For Papers
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Upcoming Call For Papers
<hallyn> desgin flaw -> misusd feature you mean
<rharper> any upcoming CFPs we should be aware of ?
<rharper> nope?  ok
<rharper> #topic Ubuntu Server Team Events
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Ubuntu Server Team Events
<rharper> events?
<jgrimm> not seeing much of either on lwn event/cfp calendars, fwiw
<rharper> ok
<rharper> #topic Open Discussion
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Open Discussion
<rharper> rbasak: I already mentioned it's feature freeze this week, reminding folks to update their merge bugs if it's not going to make the 18th.  Any other dev/release topics you wanted to bring up ?
<rbasak> Thanks. Nothing else from me.
<rharper> alright
<rharper> #topic Announce next meeting date, time and chair
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Announce next meeting date, time and chair
<jgrimm> gaughen, want to take next week?
<rharper> Next meeting will be a week from today, at the same scheduled time.  Chair is pointing to beisner, or a suitable replacement if things are still in conflict
<rharper> maybe gaughen wants to skip to the head of the line
<rharper> ok, that's all folks
<rharper> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Feb 16 16:26:43 2016 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2016/ubuntu-meeting.2016-02-16-16.01.moin.txt
<gaughen> rharper, nope. Keep my where I am.
<rharper> hehe
<gaughen> I'm only available every other week
<beisner> o/ rharper yep i've got a standing conflict for the time slot.
<gaughen> rharper, I was stepping in because jgrimm was looking for someone to help
<rharper> beisner: no worries, we'll find a robo-beisner
<jgrimm> gaughen, thanks for that.
<kickinz1> thanks rharper.
<jgrimm> thanks rharper
<gaughen> anytime, thanks rharper !!!
<beisner> rharper, smb seems to have some robo irc isms, maybe we learn from him!
<caribou> rharper: thanks!
<smb> beisner, type ahead and hit enter isms
<rharper> beisner: hehe =)
<beisner> smb :-)  oh ok
<kees> #ubuntu-meeting-2
<kees> gaah
#ubuntu-meeting 2016-02-17
<j0h> *Waves Sword Furriously*
<j0h> *Drops swords*
<j0h> *Nearly Impales self*
<j0h> Maine USA in here!
#ubuntu-meeting 2016-02-18
<Kilos> o/
<pitti> o/
<pitti> *tock* *tock*, is this thing on?
<xnox> pitti, hi
<barry> \o
<bdmurray> hey
<pitti> ah :)
<sil2100> o/
<pitti> ok, I still have a shuf command here, I hope it's recent
<pitti> no Leann, so I'll just start it
<pitti> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Feb 18 16:03:39 2016 UTC.  The chair is pitti. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<pitti> #topic Lightning Round
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Lightning Round
<pitti> $ echo $(shuf -e barry doko bdmurray slangasek caribou infinity sil2100 robru cyphermox pitti tdaitx xnox)
<pitti> slangasek cyphermox barry caribou bdmurray xnox sil2100 robru doko pitti infinity tdaitx
<pitti> and the winner is absent!
<pitti> cyphermox: would you have the honor?
<doko> or silently listening ;p
<pitti> and did I miss anyone? chiluk?
<barry> pitti: i think chiluk was the only missing
 * xnox ponders that i should probably prepare and update note or something
<pitti> barry: go ahead please
<barry> (based on my last meeting bip log)
<barry> pytest 2.8.7-2; python-mode 1:6.2.2-1; debian bug #813399 (python-pip 8.0.2-6); debian bug #814571 (python-pip 8.0.2-7); debian bug #814834; fixing other issues with proposed migration for tox and virtualenv; tox 2.3.1-2 and 2.3.1-3; fades 5-1; planet-venus merge and sync;
<ubottu> Debian bug 813399 in python-pip-whl "python-pip-whl: fails to upgrade from 'testing' - trying to overwrite /usr/share/python-wheels/six-1.10.0-py2.py3-none-any.whl" [Serious,Fixed] http://bugs.debian.org/813399
<ubottu> Debian bug 814571 in python-pip "python-setuptools-whl and python-pip-whl: error when trying to install together" [Serious,Fixed] http://bugs.debian.org/814571
<ubottu> Debian bug 814834 in src:pytest "pytest fails its DEP-8 tests on Python 3.5-only systems" [Important,Fixed] http://bugs.debian.org/814834
<barry> system-image server reviews for sil2100; LP: 1508081
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1508081 in ubuntu-system-settings (Ubuntu) "Fails to receive OTA updates" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1508081
<barry> LP: #1440504 (libpeas split - done!)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1440504 in libpeas (Debian) "libpeas-1.0-0 depends on both libpython2.7 and libpython3.4" [Unknown,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1440504
<barry> helped kirkland and others with some python questions
<barry> Python 3 only spec: 11 packages still holding python2 on the desktop iso; software-center is gone!  the next big one is samba-libs.
<barry> --done--
<pitti> s-c is already gone? wohooo!!
<pitti> congrats
<pitti> so gnome-software it is now?
<barry> i think so.  it's not on today's daily
<pitti> caribou: ?
<doko> pitti, just sent a note that he's late
<pitti> bdmurray: ?
<bdmurray> worked on getting floating IPs assinged to daisy & errors (devops)
<bdmurray> worked w/ webops re mojo issue after wendigo update
<bdmurray> submitted mojo bug (LP: #1546262) re directories
<bdmurray> backport of new gdb to precise / upload to daisy-pluckers ppa
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1546262 in mojo "mojo required full path for $MOJO_SPEC" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1546262
<bdmurray> upgrading gdb on staging / production retracers
<bdmurray> discussion w/ stub regarding cassandra data migration
<bdmurray> research into LP: #1544612 (wireless sysctl file)
<bdmurray> research into debootstrap bug (LP: #1544760)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1544612 in pm-utils (Ubuntu Trusty) "Missing fix for 1299975 claimed to be in pm-utils (1.4.1-13ubuntu0.1)" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1544612
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1544760 in debootstrap (Ubuntu) "Not possible to use armhf with debootstrap" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1544760
<bdmurray> research into gdb and stacktrace_address_signature issue
<bdmurray> â done
<cyphermox> ugh, sorry, I'm here now
<xnox> please skip me.
<pitti> cyphermox: ok, take xnox' place then (now)
<sil2100> cyphermox: maybe you go now?
<sil2100> :)
<cyphermox> aye
<cyphermox> xenial:
<cyphermox> - debugging hw-detect disk scan errors on RDAC multipath (bug lp: #1546606)
<cyphermox> - enable libnftnl tests
<cyphermox> - investigating memtest avail. on server image w/ smoser
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1546606 in hw-detect (Ubuntu) "Unable to install Ubuntu 16.04 on Tuleta with multipath setup" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1546606
<cyphermox>  - reviewing new package: libcxl
<cyphermox> - rework ubiquity prepare plugin
<cyphermox> - testing console-setup merge
<cyphermox> - unbreak ubiquity for kubuntu
<cyphermox> trusty:
<cyphermox> - cert on powerVM
<cyphermox> - prepare Changes doc for 14.04.4 release
<cyphermox> (done)
<sil2100> o/
<sil2100> - Landing team work, silo coordination, preparing landing e-mails
<sil2100> - RTM Status meetings
<sil2100> - Coordinating the release of the glibc security fix to ubuntu-touch
<sil2100> - Custom tarball infrastructure:
<sil2100>   * Following up on the team's RT ticket
<sil2100>   * Getting access to s-jenkins for reference
<sil2100>   * Poking Francis and Paul for an armhf jenkins slave, setting it up
<sil2100> - OTA-9.1 (hotfix):
<sil2100>   * Heated discussion about the milestone existance, fix to include itp.
<sil2100>   * Preparing the emergency snapshot PPA with the proper contents
<sil2100>   * Multiple image builds (re-spins) and cherry-picking fixes
<sil2100> - OTA-9.5 (frieza):
<sil2100>   * Preparations of images, copying first official candidate to the rc channel
<sil2100> - system-image:
<sil2100>   * More tests for scripts
<sil2100>   * Finishing up and merging in the fix for repacking recovery keyrings
<sil2100> - Some minor work regarding enablement of the turbo device in our public system-image
<sil2100> - Taking care of the python-pysaml2 merge
<sil2100> - Seed changes as per pending ubuntu-touch requirements
<sil2100> - Discussions about the future of our touch frameworks
<sil2100> - Planning and experimenting on a way to auto-validate OTA PPA snapshots contents
<sil2100> (done)
<pitti> sil2100: oh, s-jenkins is still a thing? I thought these all got shut down
<sil2100> pitti: no, it's still there as many teams didn't manage to migrate
 * xnox is ready
<pitti> xnox: go
<robru> go xnox
<xnox> Doing a few NEW packages for s390x port, all in NEW waiting review
<xnox> Did a fixup of packages not rebuilt for python3.5 transition
<xnox> Was out Thursday-Friday last week on holiday, at SPI sprint in NYC loads of progress on how to get SPI running better, bdale was there met up with Karen too
<xnox> Fixing a bunch of installer related bugs, on s390x.
<xnox> Working on fixing FTBFS of docker.io build-depends, to have a chance at merging it (golang circular FTBFS build-deps make this bootstrap fun)
<xnox> ..
<robru> lp:bileto
<robru> * send britney results immediately after each silo is known rather than batching results until all silos are complete
<robru> * fix a bunch of logging issues in the britney glue related to python output buffering
<robru> * begin using proper production creds rather than logging into lp anonymously
<robru> * big refactoring, dropping SSO team & server side session support, eliminating several hundred lines of code
<robru> * [not landed yet] began working on ephemeral PPA creation & deletion.
<robru> lp:canonical-mojo-specs
<robru> * finally fixed issue with postgres charm, so db is back on persistent disk
<robru> lp:cupstream2distro
<robru> * refactor all the new swift code to greatly improve reliability of artifact uploads
<robru> * log swift artifacts in publish log for easy reference
<robru> (end)
<pitti> robru: ah, did the staggering of britney help reduce the latency?
<doko> - usual toolchain updates ...
<doko> - more transitions, ftbfs fixes, nbs, ...
<doko> - ongoing gnutls transition
<doko> - preparing for go1.6, both golang and gccgo
<doko> - python3 bindings for samba libs talloc, tdb, ldb
<doko> - gdb 7.11 (branch)
<doko> - bind9 review and bug fixes
<robru> pitti: yeah
<doko> - grep build failure on powerpc, solved by giving it back a dozen times
<doko> - gcc-4.9 and cross compilers now finally buildable in the release pocket
<doko> - finally patched various unity packages myself to get rid off libgee
<doko> (done)
<pitti> autopkgtest:
<pitti>  - Simplify autopkgtest-retrier code, generalize it, and integrate into autopkgtest-cloud
<pitti>  - Enable test requests from GitHub; running for systemd upstream PRs now
<pitti>  - Support multiple trigger arguments for request.cgi (mostly for kernel team)
<pitti> Apport:
<pitti>  - Review/fix/cleanup stgraber's branch for reporting crashes in containers, landed in Xenial
<pitti>  - Adjust tests for new gdb
<pitti>  - Investigate bad address signatures (#1533349)
<robru> pitti: each run takes an hour now so putting results immediately rather than waiting till the end is a huge speedup
<pitti> distro:
<pitti>  - Build and test fresh xenial -base langpacks
<pitti>  - Review/sponsor smoser's open-iscsi merge
<pitti>  - systemd: Debug test failure on several arches, fix installation with RAMTMP=yes (#1545707), various autopkgtest robustifications
<pitti>  - pm-utils: Fix wireless hooks for different drivers (#1544612), some packaging modernizations
<pitti>  - merged util-linux
<pitti> â
<pitti> no infinity, so tdaitx
<xnox> doko, do you want to upload golang 1.6 final? or should I?
<pitti> sil2100: "future of our touch frameworks" â in terms of moving to snappy, or moving away from vivid? any news ther?
<doko> xnox, I was asked to do it, but if you want, go ahead
<xnox> doko, ok, let me see if i can get that in today.
<pitti> ok, no tdaitx either
<pitti> #topic AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<doko> component mismatches ...
<doko> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/component-mismatches-proposed.svg
<sil2100> pitti: not so far into the future like snappy, but we a few meetings regarding how to manage those per-OTA update and what to do after we switch away from vivid
<sil2100> pitti: nothing definite yet though, we didn't have any decision power there so far
<pitti> sil2100: well, having a workable solution already sounds very promising :)
<pitti> thanks
<doko> please have a look at these on the top, see which is foundations related, pick up an incomplete MIR ...
<robru> sil2100: what's the timeline to switch away from vivid?
<xnox> sil2100, what about building ubuntu userspace on arm64? and supporting armhf & arm64 in the store?
<barry> doko: `python3 -m venv foo` still works
<sil2100> robru: no real timetable, it's a taboo topic right now, everyone thinks about it but no one wants to talk about it our loud
<sil2100> ;)
<barry> sil2100: so system-image is still twitching :)
<sil2100> xnox: I know there were a few management discussions about that but sadly I wasn't included, so I don't know much about the final plans
<robru> sil2100: oh that sounds like a healthy way to run a commercial product
<sil2100> xnox: for now we stick with armhf userspace
<sil2100> barry: well, in a sense, yes ;) I don't know what to think anymore as whenever I talk about s-i somewhere people are like: "meh, it's old stuff, snappy that snappy this"
<barry> sil2100: yeah
<doko> so who picks which incomplete MIR?
<barry> but i've also been told i can't ignore si client just yet ;)
<sil2100> barry: it's hard to say we should ignore s-i since most of my day is related to doing s-i stuff ;p
<pitti> anything else for the meeting, or should we close this?
<barry> sil2100: right.  i have a high priority task that i will be getting back to today
<sil2100> barry: in case you have an MR, you know where to find me!
<barry> sil2100: \o/
<doko> pitti, well, I asked, but nobody replied
<pitti> well, since libbusiness-isbn-perl is at the left, I'll just pick that
<caribou> o/
<pitti> indicator-datetime has been there for multiple releases and is an "ignore", right?
<barry> xnox: is gonna automatically fix all the 'B's
<xnox> ?!
 * xnox looks
<barry> xnox: build-depends :)
<doko> pitti, please cut the dependency chain before maven-debian-helper
<pitti> doko: oh, I was going to cut it right at the top if possible
<doko> indicator-datetime is a false positive
<xnox> barry, well, we need to send pitti and doko on a holiday for like a month, do the lp switch, then when they come back it will be "too late" to change things back.
<pitti> I'll reply to your last reply on the ML
<doko> xnox, if you send us way, nothing will migrate anymore
<pitti> that's not what I meant
<pitti> doko: hm, but that also means nothing will break, so we *can* actually go to holidays
<xnox> this svg graph is fun
<xnox> i like the island of "python-hypothesis" =)
<barry> i'm glad i have a jillion x bazillion resolution monitor
<doko> barry, do you take python-hypothesis?
<barry> doko: yes, i jsut found that
<barry> LP: #1546982
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1546982 in python-genty (Ubuntu) "[MIR] b-d's of python-hypothesis: python-flaky and python-genty" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1546982
 * xnox ponders why we have kde4 in main
<xnox> sorry kde4libs
<pitti> we always had
<pitti> php5, that sounds like picking which version of PHP we want to support in xenial
<pitti> firebird is something that I wouldn't like to see in main, the rest looks harmless at first sight
<xnox> firebird is evil.
<doko> firebird is dropped in 5, needs to be dropped in 7
<pitti> but I'm quite sure php can be built without firebird support
<xnox> i see like 3 patches to get us onto php7 i think.
<doko> but it's unclear for me how far we are away from 7
<pitti> so is "7" the answer for xenial now?
<nacc> pitti: yes (from the server team)
<pitti> as long as it's not two major versions
<pitti> nacc: ah, good
<nacc> right, just 7
<nacc> no 5
<doko> pitti, both depend on defaults ...
<doko> nacc, how will you drop 5?
<pitti> ok, so that whole php5 blob there should disappear
<doko> anyway, one last issue: http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/transitions/html/gnutls28.html
<doko> fixes welcome
<doko> needed for everything execpt efl and ubuntu-meta
<xnox> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1546823
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1546823 in swig (Ubuntu) "swig: disable PHP bindings until PHP7 support exists" [Wishlist,New]
<xnox> are three outstanding patches there, i think.
<nacc> doko: not sure how to answer that, we have an ongoing transition to migrate all deps throughout the archive to php- (not php7.0-) as requested by the debian maintainer, and there's a bootstrap needed for building some tightly bd-looped stuff
<nacc> doko: but in theory once that's done (and i've got another set that needs manual work), there will be nothing depending on php5 in the archive
<nacc> xnox: right that's an unfortunate consequence, but does fix-up two of the main -> php5 deps that i hit; and the hope is we can get upstream fixed relatively soon (just haven't had enough time to spend on it myself)
<doko> pitti, end?
<pitti> yeah, I guess so
<pitti> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Feb 18 16:41:07 2016 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2016/ubuntu-meeting.2016-02-18-16.03.moin.txt
<pitti> thanks everyone
<barry> pitti: thanks!
<caribou> pitti: thanks!
<sil2100> o/
<dholbach> it's CC meeting time :)
<dholbach> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Feb 18 17:00:07 2016 UTC.  The chair is dholbach. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<dholbach> #chair belkinsa czajkowski hggdh marcoceppi mhall119 sgclark
<meetingology> Current chairs: belkinsa czajkowski dholbach hggdh marcoceppi mhall119 sgclark
<hggdh> o/
<belkinsa> o/
<marcoceppi> \o
<sgclark> *wave*
<dholbach> how are you all doing? :-)
 * belkinsa is fine
<czajkowski> aloha
<dholbach> looks like we're meeting up with the TB and the LoCo Council today :)
 * hggdh is alive and kicking
<belkinsa> Thank yo for asking.
<dholbach> do we have any folks of either of the two here? :)
<dholbach> ok... can anyone do a mass-ping? :-)
<belkinsa> dholbach, do they have channels?
<dholbach> they should be in here...
<belkinsa> dholbach, the TB, not the LoCo.
<dholbach> might not be the best time with feature freeze around the corner though
<hggdh> kees, mdeslaur: available?
<hggdh> there is that
<dholbach> slangasek, stgraber too
<hggdh> and pitti
<belkinsa> The LC has been notified.
<dholbach> we wouldn't keep you too long, we're just interested in catching up and what the current state of things in TB land is :)
<stgraber> in another meeting right now, not available
<czajkowski> we may need to work this format out a bit better with reminders going out
<czajkowski> or maybe revamping the check in proecess
<hggdh> indeed
<dholbach> the TB folks might have an excuse today with feature freeze coming up later on, but there was at least no communication about this
 * belkinsa nods
<czajkowski> perhaps like the loco team review, we ask for  a wiki page to be created as I know it;s hard for all to attend
<sgclark> #agree
<mdeslaur> hi, what's up
 * belkinsa adds it to the Trello board.
<hggdh> mdeslaur: we are trying to catch up with the TB
<mdeslaur> what TB? ;)
<dholbach> and check in and see how things are going
<hggdh> heh
<dholbach> the TB-with-extended-lifetime :-)
<hggdh> ignorance is no ecuse
<hggdh> :-)
<mdeslaur> we're awaiting the list of candidates to hold an election
<dholbach> mdeslaur, do you know if anyone pinged clan about this?
<mdeslaur> I'm not aware, sorry
 * genii makes a fresh pot of coffee
<dholbach> that might be the way to go
<belkinsa> dholbach, has Mark looked over the list?
<dholbach> belkinsa, I'm not on the TB, so I don't know - I haven't been involved in the discussions
<dholbach> how have things been going for the TB in the last cycle?
<belkinsa> Oh, i see.
<mhall119> hey guys, sorry I'm late
<mdeslaur> things have been going good, pretty quiet
<mdeslaur> nothing big has come up
<dholbach> no will-snappy-replace-standard-ubuntu discussions? :-)
<mdeslaur> haha, no
<mdeslaur> we've relaxed the SRU policy, that's about it
<dholbach> I'm not on the TB mailing list and haven't attended any meetings lately... were there any controversial topics or was it mostly just boring things like approving standing sru microrelease exceptions?
<mdeslaur> dholbach: nothing controversial, nothing worthy of debate
<czajkowski> mdeslaur: did you get many nominations for the TB?
<mdeslaur> things are pretty quiet
<dholbach> it very much sounds like smooth sailing... and maybe how things should be for an upcoming LTS release :-)
<mdeslaur> czajkowski: I don't know, they go directly to Mark, and we haven't heard back yet
<czajkowski> ok we can chase up there
<dholbach> I'd recommend to mail clan
<dholbach> if it proves to be too hard we can still extend the team membership by a week or two
<mdeslaur> ok
<dholbach> maybe we should at some stage look into a service which sends reminders well in advance :)
<mdeslaur> hehe, yeah
<dholbach> it's not the first time elections take a bit longer to get organised :)
<mdeslaur> the date is quite unfortunate for the TB, as it's immediately after the holidays
<hggdh> see IRCC for another recent one
<dholbach> mdeslaur, by delaying the election you're fixing that for the new TB right now ;-)
<mdeslaur> good :)
<dholbach> maybe we should take a look at https://lists.launchpad.net/ubuntu-council-teams/msg00045.html later on to figure out which other teams need to be pinged
<mdeslaur> then there will be no excuse next time :)
<dholbach> it sounds like everything is going all right right now... is there anything you feel the TB and CC should discuss together at some stage?
<svij> hello! I'm late to the meetingâ¦
<mdeslaur> I can't think of anything off-hand, but we won't hesitate if something comes up
<dholbach> ok, cool
<dholbach> I don't have any more questions... anyone else?
<belkinsa> I'm good.
<mhall119> not from me
<hggdh> I am good
<mdeslaur> great, thanks everyone!
<dholbach> thanks a lot mdeslaur for giving us an update! :-)
<mdeslaur> I wish I had more to update on :P
<belkinsa> Not a problem, mdeslaur, and thank you for coming.
<sgclark> Thank you
<dholbach> I spotted svij already... do we have anyone else from the LoCo Council?
<svij> I don't know, just came home and directly to the pc
<svij> (I didn't even know that there's a meeting today)
<hggdh> wxl: there?
<belkinsa> svij, we are sorry for forgetting for sending out the reminder e-mail.
<dholbach> I though mhall119 had sent out an invitation...?
<mhall119> I did, but we were also going to send reminders
<mhall119> before each team's meeting
<dholbach> we should have a service for sending out these emails ;-)
 * belkinsa nods and thanks mhall119 for adding that
<dholbach> ok... do we have other LoCo Council members here?
<belkinsa> Yes, and I will bring that up on our mailing-list
<mhall119> dholbach: I was also going to look into creating a shared Google calendar so people can subscribe to invites
<mhall119> but...I haven't yet
<belkinsa> #action belkinsa Talk about using a reminder service (e-mail) for check-up reminders
<meetingology> ACTION: belkinsa Talk about using a reminder service (e-mail) for check-up reminders
<mhall119> dholbach: I pinged wxl and nhaines in #ubuntu-loco-teams but haven't heard from them
<dholbach> thanks mhall119
<dholbach> svij, how are things in the LoCo Council? I think you just joined the team... right?
<mhall119> just to check, is the LC fully staffed now?
<dholbach> LP shows 6 members
<mhall119> which is the new size, IIRC, down from 7 we had for a while
<svij> I just joind the team and I didn't have time to get read everything which I should know
<svij> so I can't say much sadly
<dholbach> no worries, that' fair enough
<dholbach> mhall119, I feel we probably shouldn't do another restaffing cycle unless there are big problems right now
<mhall119> dholbach: I agree, I just couldn't remember if there was currently an open seat or not
 * dholbach nods
<mhall119> IIRC, we all agreed to shrink the size of the LC down to 6, so that makes it fully staffed
<dholbach> ok... I feel we should maybe wait another 2-3 minutes and if nobody turns up, wrap it
<hggdh> meanwhile, just so it is public (already in Trello): the IRCC is setting up to run a Condorcet election for 3 seats
<dholbach> cool - thanks a lot
<hggdh> candidates are Unit193, tm-T, rww, na3il, and myself. Flannel will run the Condorcet voting.
<dholbach> excellent
<mhall119> thanks hggdh
<dholbach> all right... does anyone have any other business? anything else you'd like us to talk about?
<hggdh> I am OK
<mhall119> I'm happy
<belkinsa> I'm cool.
<Na3iL> o/ all
<hggdh> Na3iL: cheers
<sgclark> Good here
<Na3iL> Hey hggdh
<hggdh> Na3iL: just so you know, ircc election should happen soon(-ish)
<Na3iL> Ah, that's cool :D
<dholbach> all right... let's wrap it up
<dholbach> thanks a lot everyone!
<hggdh> dholbach: thank you for hosting
<dholbach> can somebody update the team report wiki with the links to the log?
<sgclark> sure
<dholbach> awesome thanks!
<dholbach> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Feb 18 17:40:09 2016 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2016/ubuntu-meeting.2016-02-18-17.00.moin.txt
<dholbach> ^ here they are :-D
<sgclark> thanks
<dholbach> have a great rest of your day everyone :)
<wxl> ahhh sorry folks just got in
<wxl> still around mhall119?
#ubuntu-meeting 2017-02-13
<rbasak> o/
<rbasak> Who's here?
<BenC> o/
<rbasak> While we're waiting for quorum, any opinions on my ubuntu-devel SRU uploader permission thread?
<BenC> If infinity canât chair, Iâm going to have to pass on chair. Iâm also in a work meeting, so stretched for focus.
<rbasak> OK
<rbasak> I can chair (if we ever get quorum)
<rbasak> What happened to the action to find more suitable meeting times?
<micahg> hrm, I think I lost the poll (it expired)
<BenC> I was expecting a list of times we could vote on, but Iâm open to moving times.
<BenC> I think I remember voting on something.
<rbasak> I think that was micahg's poll.
<rbasak> What's the reason half the DMB seem to always be missing?
<micahg> new DMB, new schedules
<micahg> these times have basically been the same for 6+ years
<BenC> I usually have conflicts with conference calls
<micahg> I occasionally have conflicts with conference calls and other meetings
<rbasak> cyphermox: are you here?
<rbasak> While we're waiting for quorum, any opinions on my ubuntu-devel SRU uploader permission thread?
<BenC> rbasak: Whatâs the Sibject on that thread?
<BenC> *Subject
<cyphermox> I'm here.
<cyphermox> bdmurray sends his apologies
<rbasak> BenC: "Unblocking SRU uploader permissions"
<rbasak> BenC: dated 2 Feb.
<BenC> Thanks, reading over it now.
<rbasak> Oh, we do have four now.
<rbasak> #startmeeting Developer Membership Board
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Feb 13 15:25:16 2017 UTC.  The chair is rbasak. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Developer Membership Board Meeting | Current topic:
<rbasak> #topic Review of previous action items
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Developer Membership Board Meeting | Current topic: Review of previous action items
<rbasak> rbasak to get mapreri's PPU additions done by the TB (done)
<rbasak> rbasak to address GunnarHj's im-config xenial question on the ML (done)
<rbasak> rbasak to start a discussion on the ML regarding the possibility of setting up a specialized team with access to upload packages to stable releases only (done)
<rbasak> So all done.
<mapreri> yeah, done \o/
<rbasak> I see no applications on the agenda, so straight to:
<rbasak> #topic Outstanding mailing list requests to assign
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Developer Membership Board Meeting | Current topic: Outstanding mailing list requests to assign
<rbasak> Are there any?
<rbasak> "Please add xfdashboard to xubuntu packageset"
<cyphermox> I can do that
<jbicha> I believe fossfreedom's application has been waiting for votes for a while
<cyphermox> I suppose I'll need to do another refresh of the packageset for Kubuntu today
<rbasak> Thanks!
<rbasak> #action cyphermox to handle Sean Davis' xfdashboard packageset request
<meetingology> ACTION: cyphermox to handle Sean Davis' xfdashboard packageset request
<rbasak> #action cyphermox to refresh Kubuntu packageset
<meetingology> ACTION: cyphermox to refresh Kubuntu packageset
<rbasak> Looks like micahg, cyphermox, sil2000 and I have already voted on fossfreedom's request.
<micahg> yeah, that was addressed in a meeting
<rbasak> Oh, and BenC voted too.
<rbasak> jbicha: so fossfreedom needs a +1 from one or both of infinity or bdmurray, and neither are here.
<rbasak> jbicha: everyone else has voted I think.
<cyphermox> yeah, I don't remember that there was a mail about that -- the outcome was roughly that we needed to start defining a packageset before people applied to join it
<rbasak> Well, I prefer to do it the other way round - agree in principle to a yet-to-be-defined packageset, then agree the packageset.
<rbasak> But yeah, the packageset does eventually need to be defined.
<cyphermox> well, we can't approve joining something that doesn't exist
<micahg> it needs to be defined, not created before people can apply, we can defer creation until someone actually applies successfully
<cyphermox> so, I would say, having a list of the few budgie-specific packages first would be a good thing
<cyphermox> semantics
<rbasak> I really don't think this matters.
<rbasak> Anyway, this can't proceed without a +1 vote from bdmurray or infinity.
<cyphermox> the LP tasks aren't a big deal, but I'm not going to approve a packageset being "whatever X puts in list Y" just like that, until I know that X is a core-dev, at least
<rbasak> It would be the DMB.
<cyphermox> or that the packages are very clearly within the purview of the list
<cyphermox> so how we've always defined packagesets was:
<cyphermox> figure out a phrase that generalizes what goes in it
<cyphermox> then check package against definition, if it fits, add to packageset
<rbasak> I still don't think this matters.
<cyphermox> why?
<rbasak> It's a bootstrapping problem. Unless fossfreedom gets a +1, even in principle, what the packageset might contain is moot.
<rbasak> And you've already voted.
<cyphermox> I'm already +1 for letting him upload some budgie-specific packages
<rbasak> Right. And he doesn't have enough +1s.
<rbasak> (AFAICT)
<cyphermox> that's a different problem
<rbasak> So let's get bdmurray and infinity to vote.
<rbasak> Until then, is there anything further to discuss on this?
<cyphermox> I'm certainly not +1 for letting him upload network-manager, for example. are you?
<rbasak> No.
<rbasak> But the DMB will not put network-manager into any future budgie packageset. I certainly wouldn't vote for that.
<cyphermox> well then, are you +1 for budgie-welcome or whatever that package is?
<rbasak> Sure.
<rbasak> I mean for the packageset.
<cyphermox> not for fossfreedom uploading?
<rbasak> Not for fossfreedom I'm afraid, as I voted -1 for him to join any budgie packageset for reasons I've given.
<cyphermox> I don't recall the reasons
<rbasak> https://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2016/ubuntu-meeting.2016-12-12-19.03.log.html
<rbasak> Is there anything further to discuss on this topic right now?
<rbasak> If not let's move on.
<cyphermox> no
<rbasak> I don't see anything else outstanding on the ML. Dave Chiluk's vote appears to be progressing.
<rbasak> #topic Any other business
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Developer Membership Board Meeting | Current topic: Any other business
<rbasak> I'd like feedback on my ML thread about SRU uploaders please.
<rbasak> Nobody on the DMB has replied.
<rbasak> Based on the other replies so far, I'm in favour of having a new class of uploader - SRU uploaders, who can upload anything to the queues in stable releases. It seems that LP will support this. They'll still get a review from ~ubuntu-sru of course.
<rbasak> But I have no idea what anyone else on the DMB thinks.
<rbasak> Please tell me.
<chiluk> I think our team would appreciate the intermediary positition for sure.
<chiluk> And thanks to those who've already voted.
<chiluk> rbasak.  I don't see a vote from you.  We could finish the vote now assuming you are a +1 on that.
<chiluk> it'd be nice to put that to rest.
<rbasak> I'll need to review, but I don't remember being confident about voting +1 for core dev. That's why I'd like to resolve the SRU uploader question.
<chiluk> I realize you are probably wanting to grant sru-uploader .
<rbasak> Right
<sil2100> Sorry for being late, I always seem to think the meeting is an hour later...
<chiluk> that's fine. I won't hold it against you.
<rbasak> I'd also like to know what other DMB members think about what a core dev should mean.
<micahg> sil2100: in another few weeks it will be ;)
<rbasak> Anyone? Or are you all reading/thinking?
<micahg> rbasak: I think I'm in the same boat as you
<rbasak> OK, thanks.
<rbasak> cyphermox? sil2100? BenC? Opinions?
<micahg> (waiting to see outcome of SRU uploader discussion)
<rbasak> Oh
<rbasak> Well...what do you think about the SRU uploader discussion? :)
<cyphermox> rbasak: I think it's fine, but it "adds" work to the SRU team (more careful review, but then again, you always need to be carefully reviewing the packages). You're in that team though, so you already know about it
<micahg> I'm a bit conflicted, it's a novel idea for sure, I'm struggling with if it'll really solve an issue and if it's a direction we want to drive upload rights
<cyphermox> (that means I'm +1)
 * sil2100 needs to get some context, one moment
<micahg> and I was worried about extra burden on SRU team as cyphermox mentioned
<rbasak> cyphermox: thanks. Yeah, I'm always carefully reviewing anyway, and I think we should only give this to people we trust can do SRUs correctly (and well).
<rbasak> I don't think we need uploaders to understand things like development release proposed migration and merges.
<rbasak> cyphermox: so I don't think there's really anything we have to worry about with respect to the quality of uploads that the SRU team will see. Any concern about that for an individual and I'd be -1 to give that person SRU uploader permissions.
<cyphermox> well, they need to understand proposed migration to a degree anyway
<rbasak> I'm only looking to remove requirements that clearly don't apply to SRUs, but do to core devs, to get people uploading SRUs sooner.
<rbasak> If, in your judgement of the requirements that are left, a candidate doesn't meet them, then I'd encourage you to vote -1 for SRU uploader anyway.
<cyphermox> yeah yeah
<sil2100> I'm +0 on the SRU-uploaders team
<sil2100> Since even though I think in some cases it might be useful, I'm not sure that it's worth the trouble of getting it done, since I don't know if we'd have a lot of people applying for such a team membership
<sil2100> Although I must say I d o not know how much work is required to get it implemented
<slashd> sil2100, there will at least ~10 ppl from my team that would be willing to apply for this
<chiluk> sil2100: we have about 20 on my team that would be interested
<slashd> yeah
<slashd> 20 sorry
<tinoco> =)
<rbasak> If it works, I believe it is just a matter of an LP team and an ACL entry by the TB.
<rbasak> No more work than a new packageset.
<tinoco> all of them following discussion
<chiluk> slashd: cloudy folks need to do sru's as well.
<slashd> chiluk, yep
<sil2100> hm, ok, so there is need for that then, but you must remember that getting upload rights for that team will be similar to what we give to core-devs, so anyway possibly those people could have applied for core-dev as well
<rbasak> BenC?
<chiluk> sil2100: which is exactly what I did.
<tinoco> sil2100: we wouldn't be touching devel
<tinoco> rbasak: right ?
<rbasak> tinoco: right. You'd still need a sponsor for devel.
<chiluk> tinoco in most cases.
<BenC> I would be +1 in theory, but Iâm +/-0 at this point.
<tinoco> which raises question .. we would start SRU (upload) without sponsor for devel ?
<rbasak> Which is often a prerequisite for an SRU. However, I hope that it'll help speed things up (one sponsor needed once, rather than multiple times as stuff gets developed)
<micahg> another unanswered question is whether or not we grant membership to this team, I would suggest not to keep the bar for entry lower.  However, it seems the SRU team might be flooded with requests.  Has that team grown sufficiently to handle such an influx of uploads?
<sil2100> Yeah, just stable, but stable has even a bigger emphasis on good uploads, so uploaders need to have the knowledge - yes, there's the additional step of ubuntu-sru doing reviews of the uploads before accepting, but still
<BenC> Iâm personally more geared toward an SRU role for the STS team and we would vote on who, from that team could fill that role to unblock the team.
<chiluk> micahg: it would be no more than current.
<rbasak> Also I think it'll provide a nice stepping stone.
<BenC> They would promote their best candidate
<rbasak> micahg: I'm not sure the SRU numbers would go up. STS will still drive the same number of (Canonical) customer requests. My intention is to reduce the latency.
<rbasak> micahg: but if the SRU numbers did go up, then I'd expect Canonical to put more into ~ubuntu-sru. Right now the majority of ~ubuntu-sru work is handled by Canonical staff anyway.
<chiluk> correct rbasak... numbers should stay about the same.  Maybe slightly higher by allowing us more time to work instead of harass uploaders
<rbasak> micahg: I recently joined ~ubuntu-sru to alleviate the load, as has sil2100 - and we're both sponsored by Canonical to do this.
<chiluk> rbasak..becoming a member of ubuntu-sru has been one of my stated goals all along.
<sil2100> Anyway, I'm fine with any outcome
<rbasak> Thank you everyone for your opinions.
<rbasak> I'll propose to add an ~ubuntu-sru-uploaders team then. I'll respond to the mailing list.
<rbasak> And we can discuss it there, and vote for it either on the list or at the next meeting.
<rbasak> I think we'd need a quorate vote.
<rbasak> Any other AOB?
<rbasak> OK, thanks all!
<rbasak> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Feb 13 16:31:32 2017 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2017/ubuntu-meeting.2017-02-13-15.25.moin.txt
<tyhicks> hello
<tyhicks> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Feb 13 16:31:57 2017 UTC.  The chair is tyhicks. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<slashd> thanks rbasak for leading the discussion about the sru-upload, we appreciated it
<tyhicks> The meeting agenda can be found at:
<tyhicks> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Announcements
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Announcements
<tyhicks> James Page (jamespage) provided a debdiff for xenial for nova-lxd (LP: #1656847)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1656847 in nova-lxd (Ubuntu Zesty) "neutron security group rules not applied to nova-lxd containers" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1656847
<tyhicks> Jeremy Bicha (jbicha) provided debdiffs for yakkety for bubblewrap and flatpak (LP: #1657357)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1657357 in flatpak (Ubuntu) "bubblewrap escape via TIOCSTI ioctl" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1657357
<tyhicks> Jeremy Bicha (jbicha) worked to remove jasper from zesty (LP: #1612835)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1612835 in kopete (Ubuntu) "Please remove jasper from Zesty" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1612835
<tyhicks> Thank you for your assistance in keeping Ubuntu users secure! :)
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly stand-up report
<tyhicks> jdstrand: you're up
<jdstrand> hi!
<jdstrand> last week my dev work got preempted by lots and lots of reviews (store, documentation, Personal and other snapd PRs, snap-confine PRs) and helping with the snap-confine system vs core snap out-of-syncness issue on classic
<jdstrand> today, I'm catching up on store reviews, various mailing list and bug discussions from friday/weekend
<jdstrand> this week, I plan to continue with various PR and design reviews/discussions as I'm assigned to them. I know I already need to look at the gsettings patches, console access, 'notion of trust' in snappy, misc snap-confine PRs and lots of Personal PRs (unity8 policy, thumbnailer, media-hub, et al)
<jdstrand> assuming I can get to my non-review assigned dev work after, I plan to work on the next batch of miscellaneous policy updates and continue with more seccomp arg filtering policy
<jdstrand> (quite a bit of the seccomp arg filtering policy I pushed up landed already)
<jdstrand> that's it from me
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: you're up
<mdeslaur> I'm on triage this week
<mdeslaur> I was about to publish a webkit2gtk update, but the new version has a regression
<mdeslaur> I'm still working on php5 updates, should be publishing that this week
<mdeslaur> after that, I'll be going down the list, as usual
<mdeslaur> sbeattie: you're up
<tyhicks> I'll go and we can circle back
<tyhicks> I'm in the happy place this week
<tyhicks> finish testing and submit seccomp logging kernel patchset v3
<tyhicks> check on AppArmor Zesty upload (blocked by a perl upload)
<tyhicks> assist in landing the dconf/gsettings mediation
<tyhicks> tcpdump updates (bug #1662177)
<ubottu> bug 1662177 in tcpdump (Ubuntu) "tcpdump multiple CVEs" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1662177
<tyhicks> that's it for me
<tyhicks> jjohansen: you're up
<tyhicks> oh, short week for me
<tyhicks> I'm out tomorrow
<jjohansen> I'm finishing up the apparmor policy notification interface, and making any other revisions to the dconf work that might pop up
<jjohansen> once that is done I'll be back to upstreaming work, the next merge window is coming all too fast
<jjohansen> oh hrmm and it goes with out saying that revising the dconf/gsettings work is part of landing it
<jjohansen> which I'll be helping with
<tyhicks> I think that'll be a full week
<jjohansen> yep
<tyhicks> I haven't seen sarnold yet
<tyhicks> he's working on MIRs
<tyhicks> chrisccoulson: you're up
<jjohansen> yeah, I was just checking
<sarnold> (here)
<tyhicks> oh, go ahead
<sarnold> I'm community this week
<chrisccoulson> This week, I'll be spending some more time getting rustc working everywhere
<sarnold> whatever's not spent on community tasks will be MIRs :)
<chrisccoulson> Mozilla just bumped the minimum rustc version required to build firefox to 1.15.1, which is newer than we have in zesty, which is totally awesome
<chrisccoulson> oh
<sarnold> ow
<tyhicks> :(
<chrisccoulson> sarnold, carry on :)
<sarnold> I'm done :/
<chrisccoulson> ah, cool
<sarnold> because waiting a dozen hours for a toolchain before starting work on the browser sounds like such fun :(
<chrisccoulson> so, other than that, I'll be finishing off bug 1638852, and then a few other cleanups required to make the new UITK webview stable
<ubottu> bug 1638852 in Oxide "Add touch selection handles and quick menu to UbuntuWebView" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1638852
<chrisccoulson> That's me done
<ratliff> I'm on bug triage this week.
<ratliff> I am working on updates for core and touch otherwise
<ratliff> sbeattie: around? if not, back to you tyhicks
<tyhicks> lets move on
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Highlighted packages
<tyhicks> The Ubuntu Security team will highlight some community-supported packages that might be good candidates for updating and or triaging. If you would like to help Ubuntu and not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so.
<tyhicks> See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details and if you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-security. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved.
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/pinpoint.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/gcc-4.9.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/libcsoap.html
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Miscellaneous and Questions
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/gpw.html
<tyhicks> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/libxml-security-java.html
<tyhicks> jdstrand, mdeslaur, sbeattie, jjohansen, sarnold, ChrisCoulson, ratliff: Thanks!
<tyhicks> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Feb 13 16:49:39 2017 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2017/ubuntu-meeting.2017-02-13-16.31.moin.txt
<jjohansen> thanks tyhicks
<ratliff> thank you, tyhicks !!
<mdeslaur> thanks tyhicks!
<sarnold> thanks tyhicks!
<jdstrand> thanks tyhicks :)
#ubuntu-meeting 2017-02-14
<jgrimm> o/
<powersj> o/
<cpaelzer> o/
<cpaelzer> rharper: leading as in plan?
<rbasak> #startmeeting ubuntu-server-team
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Feb 14 16:00:02 2017 UTC.  The chair is rbasak. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:
<rharper> supposedly rbasak was
<rharper> and it is so
<rharper> o/
<rbasak> #topic Review ACTION points from previous meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<rbasak> o/
<rbasak> I see no actions.
<rbasak> #info No actions from previous meeting.
<rbasak> #topic Development Release
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Development Release
<rbasak> #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-z-server-core
<rbasak> The blueprint is looking pretty good now I think.
<jgrimm> indeed
<rbasak> Shall we go through the outstanding items?
<rbasak> caribou: "Add secureboot support for kdump-tools : INPROGRESS"
<rbasak> Is that needed before feature freeze?
<rbasak> squid3 merge: INPROGRESS
<rbasak> This is done.
<rbasak> (and landed)
<jgrimm> nice
<rbasak> nacc: python-django merge (LP: #1605278): INPROGRESS
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1605278 in python-django (Ubuntu Zesty) "Merge python-django 1:1.10.3 from Debian unstable" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1605278
<rbasak> nacc: also apache2 merge (LP: #1663425): INPROGRESS
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1663425 in libapache2-mod-perl2 (Ubuntu) "Please merge with 2.4.25-3 from Debian unstable" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1663425
<jgrimm> i can give status on django
<rbasak> jgrimm: iproute2 merge (LP: #1659039): INPROGRESS - this is at MP stage I think? In my backlog to look that up.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1659039 in iproute2 (Ubuntu) "iproute2 catch up with upstream" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1659039
<rbasak> jgrimm: also nspr merge: INPROGRESS
<rbasak> Is that the same?
<jgrimm> no
<rbasak> I think I also need to look at caribou's nut merge.
<jgrimm> wrt django, nacc has PPA and has been in holding pattern for maas to figure test/work with it
<nacc> apache2 is uploaded, just stuck in proposed, it's tied to the openldap merge
<jgrimm> maas team said they'd look at it tod
<jgrimm> today even
<jgrimm> i'll let nacc talk, ping me and i'll give my status on the above
<smoser> o/
<rbasak> nacc: how's the openldap merge going?
<nacc> also uploaded, also stucck in proposed
<nacc> autopkgtest regressions, not all due to openldap
<nacc> z-p is kind of a mess right now
<cpaelzer> ack on that
<nacc> working with debian maintainers of some pkgs to figure them out
<rbasak> OK. For FF we can at least focus on getting stuff into proposed.
<nacc> looks like we also have an ada regression in z-p :/
<rbasak> What's not in proposed but needs to be?
<nacc> rbasak: nothing on my side
<nacc> that i know of (other than my curtin changes...)
<cpaelzer> how about the discussion on postgres-9.6 that has to go OUT of proposed for this cycle?
<rbasak> My Firefox has hung trying to load the excuses page :-/
 * rbasak now can't see the agenda.
<jgrimm> rbasak, wrt to nspr -> its blocked on the dogtag-pki/tomcat failures like a half a dozen other packages
<jgrimm> but its in proposed
<nacc> cpaelzer: we can presumably leave it in -proposed, right? it just won't migrate unti 17.04
<nacc> s/17.04/17.10/
<rbasak> I see we have a ton of MIRs blocked.
<jgrimm> python-boto also merged and in proposed, but failing autopkgtests (but those failures have been around before my merge) something to still sort out
<cpaelzer> nacc: we can leve it, but there are dependent builds and none of them will migtrate
<cpaelzer> nacc: I can't decide if that is ok as well
<rbasak> #info Various feature freeze sensitive uploads are stuck in proposed.
<cpaelzer> nacc: that is why I assumed it might be required to drop it there
<rbasak> #info Various things are blocked on MIRs that are pending review.
<rbasak> jgrimm: do you have a list of your assigned items that aren't in proposed yet?
<rbasak> jgrimm: I see iproute2, nspr (for which you've answered), openvpn
<cpaelzer> I would like to discuss shortly on the MIRs once we are over the "in proposed" topic
<jgrimm> iproute is the only one not merged, but there is MR awaiting your review
<rbasak> cpaelzer: ack
<rbasak> OK
<jgrimm> and openvpn which is in nacc's review queue
<rbasak> #action rbasak to review jgrimm's iproute2 MR
<meetingology> ACTION: rbasak to review jgrimm's iproute2 MR
<rbasak> #action nacc to review jgrimm's openvpn MR
<meetingology> ACTION: nacc to review jgrimm's openvpn MR
<jgrimm> thank you
<nacc> cpaelzer: yeah, we should review what all hits it
<nacc> cpaelzer: we'll need an AA to help if so (and to blacklist it for now, iiuc)
<rbasak> It looks like memcached is merged?
<cpaelzer> nacc: ack
<jgrimm> rbasak, i think sitting in excuses tho. :/
<rbasak> memcached has made it to the release pocket.
<jgrimm> oh yay! that's new to me
<rbasak> I'll update the blueprint (later) to note what is in proposed, so we know.
<powersj> rbasak: can you add etckeeper to your list of MR to review?
<jgrimm> rbasak, i plan to review server packages today for anything new (or missed) that needs handled
<rbasak> Great, thanks.
<nacc> rbasak: feel free to reassign some of those to me
<rbasak> #action rbasak to review caribou's nut merge
<meetingology> ACTION: rbasak to review caribou's nut merge
<rbasak> #action rbasak to review powersj's etckeeper merge
<meetingology> ACTION: rbasak to review powersj's etckeeper merge
<powersj> thx
<rbasak> #action jgrimm to review server packages for anything new (or missed) that needs merging
<meetingology> ACTION: jgrimm to review server packages for anything new (or missed) that needs merging
<jgrimm> thanks!
<rbasak> jgrimm: also python-boto?
<nacc> i'm going to spend some time today trawling -proposed as well, trying to get a story for as mucch that is stuck as possible
<rbasak> And nginx.
<nacc> teward: --^
<rbasak> teward: how's the nginx merge going?
<jgrimm> rbasak, in -proposed, autopkgtest failure  <- nacc if interested
<rbasak> nacc: thanks
<rbasak> OK
<nacc> i believe teward was working on it yestreday, but also has other priorities right now (school)
<rbasak> That's everything I see on the blueprint that is FF-critical.
<nacc> (per ubuntu-server IRC yeserday)
<rbasak> OK
<cpaelzer> MIRs ?
<rbasak> #subtopic Pending MIRs
<cpaelzer> I just checked iotop & nicstat is actually DONE
<cpaelzer> are
<powersj> yeah just need to be added to seed though I believe
<cpaelzer> but htop and python-elftools wait on security review.
<cpaelzer> For the latter I unblocked DPDK by keeping the delta that drops the dependency to a suggest - Debian was so kind to accept that now
<rbasak> Great, thanks!
<rbasak> #info iotop and nicstat are done
<rbasak> #info htop and python-elftools wait on security review
<rbasak> To get sssd merged I dropped the "secrets service" due to a component mismatch, and left a work item there.
<jgrimm> rbasak: powersj will need some help with seeding iotop & nicstat
<rbasak> That's also blocked on a MIR. I don't know whether to drop that in after FF, or next cycle.
<rbasak> It seems relatively safe since it'll be a new feature.
<rbasak> #action rbasak to look at seeding iotop & nicstat with powersj
<meetingology> ACTION: rbasak to look at seeding iotop & nicstat with powersj
<jgrimm> thanks
<rbasak> Anything else on MIRs?
<rbasak> #info sssd is missing the "secrets service", a new feature resulting in a component mismatch. This may be able to land in an FFe, or next cycle.
<rbasak> #subtopic Active work that may need wider communication
<rbasak> Anything to mention? Seems we're all busy with merges.
<rbasak> #info None
* rbasak changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Server & Cloud Bugs & SRU/Pending Uploads (caribou)
<rbasak> #topic Server & Cloud Bugs & SRU/Pending Uploads (caribou)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Server & Cloud Bugs & SRU/Pending Uploads (caribou)
<teward> shoot i'm late
<teward> (we'll catch up on nginx at "AOB")
<rbasak> teward: sure, thanks.
<rbasak> caribou: around?
<rbasak> Let's circle back if caribou appears
<rbasak> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (powersj)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (powersj)
<rbasak> powersj: o/
<powersj> Last week was very productive curtin/cloud-init sprint. Got some new testing going and running for curtin and learned to do merges with jgrimm.
<powersj> This week working on ISO testing and getting some zesty tests (raid1, lvm, multi-lvm) going again. Completed some overdue bug triage and will be picking up bugs for the release. Finally, some work on the KVM backend for cloud-init integration testing.
<powersj> questions? comments?
<rbasak> Thanks! Any questions for powersj?
<jgrimm> thanks!
* rbasak changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee)
<rbasak> I keep doing that!
<rbasak> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee)
<Guest15776> Right now, nothing new to report kernel-wise. Side note that the bundle of xen-libvirt-qemu for zesty did finally move out of proposed yesterday. Are there questions?
<jgrimm> great!
<rbasak> Thanks smb!
<rbasak> #info Nothing new to report kernel-wise
<rbasak> #info The bundle of xen-libvirt-qemu for zesty did finally move out of proposed yesterday.
<rbasak> #topic Ubuntu Server Team Events
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Ubuntu Server Team Events
<rbasak> Anything worth mentioning?
<rbasak> #info None of note.
<rbasak> #topic Development Release
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Development Release
<rbasak> #subtopic nginx
<rbasak> teward: o/
<teward> Hello again!
<teward> Firstly, nginx 1.10.3 (not a merge) was uploaded a couple days ago
<teward> due to some pretty evil/nasty HTTP/2 things that got fixed
<teward> (SRUs pending review for Xenial and Yakkety, also)
<rbasak> Great. Thanks for that!
<teward> as for the merge, I'm working on it, but it's not as easy as a straight merge
<teward> basically, rebuilding the delta we added for 14.04 into pure-Debian packages.
<rbasak> teward: how do you feel this is going in relation to feature freeze?
<teward> rbasak: when's feature freeze again?
<nacc> two days away, iirc
<rbasak> Thursday.
<nacc> (16.2.17)
<teward> rbasak: unlikely, at this rate, given the time it took to fix the evils of the fPIE/fPIC thing
<rbasak> teward: do you feel an FFe is appropriate? Or should we skip to next cycle?
<teward> and that *still* crops up in the updated 3rd-party modules somehow, working on fixing that (I think it's Ubuntu-specific)
<teward> rbasak: FFe would probably be appropriate, I'd like to get dynamic module support in
<rbasak> #info nginx 1.10.3 (not a merge) was uploaded a couple days ago, due to some pretty evil/nasty HTTP/2 things that got fixed
<teward> rbasak: I'll have a build-test of the merge probably by EOD tomorrow (which is 22:00 UTC-5)
<rbasak> #info A merge is more involved that usual; we think an FFe may be appropriate to get dynamic module support in
<rbasak> #info We hope to have a build-test of the merge probably by EOD tomorrow (22:00 UTC-5)
<teward> if that doesn't blow up in my face, it'll get a few reviews by me to compare against existing deltas, and then made available.  Though, the Release team and archive admins will have to move some things to Main
<teward> and some to Universe
<rbasak> teward: great. Thanks! If we have a candidate ready, I think that'll give the release team more confidence in granting an FFe, so that's very helpful./
<teward> (since some dynamic modules are in nginx-core)
<rbasak> teward: thank you for the update, and as ever for all your work on this.
<teward> rbasak: half the work is done, NGINX PPAs confirm that some of the things work fine, the existing 'merge' delta is introducing something maybe and breaking things, working on that tomorrow (today's a busyiish day)
<teward> rbasak: no problem.
<teward> OH tidbit for triagers and team members:
<rbasak> Anything else on nginx?
<teward> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/NGINX now exists
<teward> details some things about nginx, and special bug triage cases
<powersj> ^^ +1
<teward> powersj got a note about it directly, then I went ahead and documented special Triage cases for bugs and how to handle those types of bug reports.
<jgrimm> teward, very nice!
<rbasak> #info see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/NGINX for packaging details and bug triaging information on the nginx package in Ubuntu
<rbasak> I really like that page. We should have one for every package :-)
<teward> There's a corresponding link in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Triage to the special-case for the nginx package, so it's general knowledge for bug squad as well.
<teward> outside of those special cases, triage as normal.
<jgrimm> cpaelzer, something like that would be nice for qemu and include git repo and special handling etc
<rbasak> Good job linking the wiki together!
<teward> </end, goes to absorb massive quantities of caffeine>
<teward> rbasak: thank you!
<rbasak> Thanks teward!
<cpaelzer> jgrimm: I actually have that on the migration types already, will extend to general handling - good idea
<rbasak> caribou: are you in now?
<rbasak> I guess not, so...
<rbasak> #topic Open Discussion
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Open Discussion
<rbasak> AOB?
<jgrimm> cpaelzer, excellent!
<jgrimm> worth mentioning that 16.04.2 is late..targetting this thursday now
<rbasak> #info 16.04.2 is late..targetting this thursday now
<rbasak> Mentioned! :-)
<jgrimm> :)
<teward> rbasak: only if we can add things to the lxc tools, I wrote a custom bootstrapper and a "shut off *and* destroy" wrapper script around existing functions.  I got annoyed at `lxc-destroy` not stopping a container, and `lxc-create` being annoying to bootstrap a server in userspace.
<teward> s/bootstrap/customize and configure/
<rbasak> teward: I don't think there's any plan to change the old lxc command interfaces now.
<teward> still in development, but usable :p
<teward> indeed.
<rbasak> teward: but lxd does that with "lxc delete -f <name>"
<teward> rbasak: LXD wouldn't work on my 16.04 system... not sure why.
<teward> just saying, still investigating.
<teward> now i'm done :)
<rbasak> OK
<rbasak> #topic Announce next meeting date, time and chair
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Announce next meeting date, time and chair
<rbasak> rharper: will you be available to chair next week?
<rharper> sure
<rbasak> Great. Thanks!
<teward> rbasak: I won't be at next meeting unfortunately
<teward> travel
<cpaelzer> thanks rbasak for leading this so controlled
<rbasak> #info The next meeting will be at Tue 21 Feb 16:00:00 UTC 2017. rharper will chair.
<teward> feel free to email me for a status update by Friday evening
<rbasak> teward: ack.
<teward> anyone may do that ^
<rbasak> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Feb 14 16:34:27 2017 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2017/ubuntu-meeting.2017-02-14-16.00.moin.txt
<teward> so it's on the meeting agenda about nginx by *someone*
<jgrimm> teward, thanks
<jgrimm> rbasak, thanks for chairing!
<rbasak> And...the minutes are at https://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2017/ubuntu-meeting.2017-02-14-16.00.html
<teward> you're most welcome.  sorry i haven't been as active as of late, busy busy BUSY
<rbasak> All done :-P
<powersj> rbasak: +1 on doing the meeting like this
<teward> also agree, +1, this is far nicer
<teward> and prevents us having to do transcription heh
<rbasak> Thanks.
<jgrimm> yes, transcribing is pita
<teward> who was going to follow up on Apache HTTP/2, by the way?
<teward> just curious
 * nacc probably
<nacc> in the 17.10 window
<rbasak> teward: https://httpd.apache.org/docs/current/mod/mod_http2.html still says it's experimental upstream.
<teward> rbasak: it is.
<teward> [2017-02-13 18:07:58] <teward> just checking whether that's still the case or not.
<teward> [2017-02-13 18:08:01] <teward> (for Apache)
<teward> [2017-02-13 18:14:00] <sarnold> teward: I think we're waiting on apache to declare it's no longer experimental
<rbasak> teward: so I'm not sure it's appropriate to do anything further right now.
<teward> ^ I was curious so I asked Security about that
<teward> rbasak: I only was asking so the whiteboard on the blueprint could be updated accordingly
<teward> :)
<rbasak> Fair enough.
<nacc> teward: ack, i'll update it today
<teward> I only care that NGINX has HTTP/2, and that its bugs are steamrolled :)
<nacc> :)
#ubuntu-meeting 2017-02-16
 * slangasek waves
<caribou> o/
<barry> it's lonely on mumb
<barry> *mumble
<slangasek> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Feb 16 16:01:41 2017 UTC.  The chair is slangasek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Lightning round
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Lightning round
<slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e barry doko bdmurray slangasek caribou infinity sil2100 robru cyphermox tdaitx xnox chiluk mwhudson)
<slangasek> mwhudson barry cyphermox tdaitx infinity sil2100 robru slangasek xnox caribou bdmurray chiluk doko
<barry> i guess it's early for mwhudson, so...
<barry> debuntu: LP: #1662701 and LP: #1649726 - lazr.config for Python 3.6; lazr.config 2.2 released; DPMT from git-dpm testing;
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1662701 in lazr.config "tox fails and doesn't support Python 3.6" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1662701
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1649726 in lazr.config "The nose package is not an install dependency" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1649726
<barry> ubuntu-image: LP: #1621151; LP: #1655669; LP: #1663424; u-i/prepare-image discussions; review GH#115; LP: #1664296; GH#117 (quiet the test suite); release 0.15; today: SRU verification
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1621151 in Ubuntu Image "no way to create images with a GPT alignment of 1 " [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1621151
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1655669 in Ubuntu Image "Write a release script" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1655669
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1663424 in Ubuntu Image "More /tmp problems with u-i as snap" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1663424
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1664296 in Ubuntu Image "Change the snap version tag" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1664296
<barry> other: https://github.com/tox-dev/tox/issues/453; candidate interviews; bpo-22807 (safe UUID generation)
<barry> --done--
<slangasek> cyphermox:
<cyphermox> DMB:
<cyphermox> - discuss SRU uploaders
<cyphermox> zesty:
<cyphermox> - defining shim-review processes
<cyphermox> - investigating IPv6 spam from dhcp in initramfs
<cyphermox> - netplan cloned MAC support
<cyphermox> Â±other stuff:
<cyphermox> - documenting bond/bridge features in netplan
<cyphermox> - mentoring robru for core-dev
<cyphermox> - subiquity design review discussion
<cyphermox> - subiquity screenshots and documentation for design
<cyphermox> along with more netplan bug fixes and planning
<cyphermox> (done)
<tdaitx> * Note: two week worth report
<tdaitx> = OpenJDK Update
<tdaitx>   * OpenJDK 7
<tdaitx>   - Finished security patches backport with some help from Andrew Hughes from IcedTea
<tdaitx>   - Provided OpenJDK 7 packages for Trusty and Precise to the security team for testing; published last week
<tdaitx>   - Working on new IcedTea 2.6.9 release (OpenJDK 7u131); improve test data collection, various changes to the packaging (most of it off-time)
<tdaitx>   * OpenJDK 6
<tdaitx>   - Updated to 6b41-1.13.13
<tdaitx>   - Provided OpenJDK 6 packages for Trusty and Precise to the security team
<tdaitx> = TCK
<tdaitx>   * Running local tests with the new exclusion lists
<tdaitx>   * Preparing packages for the new exclusion lists
<tdaitx>   * Fixing the package for Oracle's RI
<tdaitx> = Other
<tdaitx>   * Working on tools to automate test status verification for openjdk builds
<tdaitx>     - Fetch buildlogs, compare current with past results, identify intermitent tests
<tdaitx>   * Taking Friday afternoon and Monday morning off
<tdaitx>   * Router bricked after update, having to rely on the ISP's modem/router for wifi (ie. think Athens sprint)
<tdaitx> (done)
<infinity>  * All point release, all the time.
<infinity> (done)
<sil2100> - Some damages lowering my productivity around the beginning of the week
<sil2100> - Landing team work, silo coordination
<sil2100> - DMB meeting (attending partially)
<sil2100> - Multiple SRU reviews
<sil2100> - Examining ubuntu-touch xenial-i386 build failure: broken qtlocation -gles dependencies
<sil2100> - walinuxagent:
<sil2100>   * Preparing the 2.2.4 new upstream version
<sil2100>   * Proposing upstream changes for splitting configuration files syntax
<sil2100>   * Preparing the required postinst hooks for config installation on upgrade
<sil2100>   * Some basic testing
<sil2100> - Finishing ubuntu-image warning-on-alignment branch
<sil2100> (done)
<tdaitx> infinity, you could use an acronym to make it even shorter: APRATT
<robru> * britney email policy iterations, but now blocked by snakefruit being precise
<robru> * did some archive maintenance, being mentored by cyphermox
<robru> (done)
<infinity> tdaitx: But then I'd have to explain the acronym, which would make it longer.
<xnox> bah
<tdaitx> infinity, true
<tdaitx> or make it the first hit on google
<slangasek>  * last week: was out of town Wed/Thu for partner meeting
<slangasek>  * this week: short week, was off Monday, will be off Friday
<slangasek>  * continued focus on cloud-image builds this week, for a new partner image
<slangasek>  * candidate interviews for Foundations opening
<slangasek>  * minimal kernel SRU processing on the fringes of the point release
<slangasek>  * minimal proposed-migration shepherding
<slangasek> (doe)
<slangasek> (done)
<xnox> systemd sru for failed logins with deputy systemd
<xnox> libmlx5, libnl3 updates for RoCE s390x support
<xnox> resolve libodb c++11 abi mismatch (all releases)
<xnox> resolve ftbfs flannel on s390x
<xnox> btrfs-progs update
<xnox> zlib new upstream update (with s390x accel)
<xnox> https://mentors.debian.net/package/genwqe-user reviews and sponsorship
<xnox> 16.04.2 cdimage updates & testing
<xnox> out thursday - sunday next week; SPI sprint.
<xnox> ..
<bdmurray> caribou: ?
<caribou> Short week due to two days off
<caribou> Bugfix:
<caribou>  LP #1654600 : Still investigating the correct systemd unit setup
<caribou>  LP #1638695 : pinged Doko about potential area of research
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1654600 in unattended-upgrades (Ubuntu Yakkety) "unattended-upgrade-shutdown hangs when /var is a separate filesystem" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1654600
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1638695 in python2.7 (Ubuntu) "Python 2.7.12 performance regression" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1638695
<caribou> Dev:
<caribou>  Clamav sync
<caribou>  Makedumpfile bugfix
<caribou>  sosreport-3.3+git50-g3c0349b-3 upload to debian
<caribou> nut merge
<caribou>  Sosreport 3.3 trusty/yakkety/xenial SRU
<caribou> â Done
<bdmurray> out sick for a while
<bdmurray> modified daisy retracer to gracefully exit when receiving a SIGTERM
<bdmurray> investigation into issue with retracers and cache restarting
<bdmurray> tested daisy changes in canonistack
<bdmurray> submitted RT to have daisy updated on the staging retracers
<bdmurray> investigation into quantity of items to retrace we are receiving
<bdmurray> irc discussion with wgrant regarding gdb on armhf on arm64
<bdmurray> worked on snapping apport
<bdmurray> uploaded apport to zesty to enable LP crash reporting
<bdmurray> uploaded xenial nano SRU bug
<bdmurray> interview work (prep, actually interview, review)
<bdmurray> â done
<bdmurray> chiluk: your turn
<chiluk> LP#1647389 - Working through a bisection, but my clouds stability with constantly changing qemu is slowing progress substantially.
<chiluk> LP#1655225 - Under heavy load qemu hits bdrv_error_action: Assertion `error >= 0' failed - SRU Verification.
<chiluk> LP#1650067 - SRU Verification.
<chiluk> - done -
<chiluk> thanks bdmurray.
<slangasek> doko:
<tdaitx> I think doko was going to be afk today and tomorrow
<slangasek> ok
<slangasek> any questions re: status?
<slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<slangasek> ok! anything else today?
<barry> monday is a usa holiday
<slangasek> yah
<slangasek> I'll be working Monday
<barry> i haven't decided yet ;)
<infinity> Monday is an Alberta holiday, and I'm undecided.
<slangasek> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Feb 16 16:18:53 2017 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2017/ubuntu-meeting.2017-02-16-16.01.moin.txt
<slangasek> thanks!
<barry> thanks!
<bdmurray> I haven't decided either
<caribou> thanks!
#ubuntu-meeting 2017-02-17
<__szilard> #kernel
#ubuntu-meeting 2018-02-12
<rbasak> o/
<rbasak> Sorry I missed the last meeting. I was unwell.
<rbasak> Is "    Regenerate packagesets and create one for Ubuntu Budgie" or was that taken care of at the last meeting?
<rbasak> Looking at the ML I see flexiondotorg has a request for the MATE packageset.
<jbicha> o/
<rbasak> o/
 * rbasak will wait for everyone before repasting
<cyphermox> o/
<cyphermox> rbasak: regenerate packagesets is done, but not create one for Ubuntu Budgie, that's blocked on the TB doing their thing
<rbasak> What does the TB need to do?
<cyphermox> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-community/+bug/1733687
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1733687 in Ubuntu "Please create the ubuntu-budgie seed packageset" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<cyphermox> creating the packageset.
<rbasak> Ah. OK.
<sil2100> o/
<sil2100> Do we have anything else?
<rbasak> Looking at the ML I see flexiondotorg has a request for the MATE packageset.
<rbasak> flexiondotorg: around? Though we don't have quorum yet, I'm not sure I fully understand your request.
<rbasak> Does this "just" need packageset regeneration as the packages are seeded again in bionic?
<rbasak> Or are you blocked from uploading in a previous relesae?
<cyphermox> well, if it's updating the packageset, sil2100  did that last week
<rbasak> AFAICT, flexiondotorg will need a PPU entry if what he needs isn't in the ubuntu-mate packageset in a previous series due to it having been unseeded there.
<rbasak> It might be easier just to sponsor him if he needs a one-off upload.
<rbasak> cyphermox, sil2100: did you update the ubuntu-mate packageset after flexiondotorg's email on Wednesday last week?
<rbasak> If so perhaps the problem is fixed.
<flexiondotorg> I tried another upload yesterday and it was rejected.
<rbasak> flexiondotorg: what was the source package name please, and to what series?
<flexiondotorg> rbasak I tried mozo and mate-icon-theme-faenza uploads to bionic.
 * rbasak looks
<flexiondotorg> mozo is seeded again. I was unseed during 17.10 as we experiemented with an alternative menu editor.
<cyphermox> probably the updates landed after sil's update
<flexiondotorg> mate-icon-theme-faenza is unseeded in Ubuntu MATE now. But it is part of the MATE suite, so I'd like to be able to conitnue to upload updates.
<rbasak> cyphermox: yeah my lookups suggest that
<cyphermox> flexiondotorg: shouldn't it just go in supported?
<flexiondotorg> I have added both to supported.
<flexiondotorg> I did that just prior to sending the email last week.
<rbasak> OK
<cyphermox> cool
<cyphermox> then yeah, just needs another round of updating packagesets
<jbicha> does supported work for seeds like that?
<rbasak> I believe (but am not sure) that packageset regeneration will solve this as you need for bionic then.
<cyphermox> hrm
<cyphermox> otoh, the commit says 02-07, and the last generation was 02-12
<cyphermox> I'll have a look at it
<rbasak> mozo (from mozo) is seeded in:
<rbasak>   ubuntu-mate: daily-live
<rbasak> But it's not showing up in the packageset either
<rbasak> cyphermox: thanks!
<cyphermox> rbasak: it's not about that necessarily
<rbasak> I'll leave it in your capable hands :)
<rbasak> My conclusion though is: no DMB meeting needed today then?
<rbasak> As the MATE packageset change doesn't need quorum
<rbasak> (s/change/refresh/)
<sil2100> Yeah
<rbasak> Thanks
 * rbasak departs
<mdeslaur> \o
<tyhicks> hello
<tyhicks> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Feb 12 16:36:59 2018 UTC.  The chair is tyhicks. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<tyhicks> The meeting agenda can be found at:
<tyhicks> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Announcements
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Announcements
<tyhicks> Jeremy Bicha (jbicha) provided a debdiff for xenial for brotli (LP: #1737364)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1737364 in brotli (Ubuntu Xenial) "16.04: Fix CVE-2016-1968 and CVE-2016-1624 for brotli" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1737364
<tyhicks> Thank you for your assistance in keeping Ubuntu users secure! :)
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly stand-up report
<tyhicks> jdstrand: you're up
<jdstrand> hi
<jdstrand> Last week I ended up sending more time on the store items and review tools updates than I plenned, so this week I plan to:
<jdstrand> - continue snapd PR reviews (layouts is close to done, portals, steam-support when get feedback on what I gave last week, etc)
<jdstrand> - LSM stacking demo
<jdstrand> that's it from me. mdeslaur, you're up
<jdstrand> - lxd snap regression wrt confinement
<jdstrand> - create screencast interface
<jdstrand> - strict mode snaps on live cd
<mdeslaur> jdstrand: hey
<mdeslaur> jdstrand: I'm in the happy place this week
<mdeslaur> I'm currently publishing some USNs, and will work on some more security updates after that
<mdeslaur> that's pretty much it, sbeattie, you're up
<sbeattie> I'm on community this week
<sbeattie> I'm working on investigating enabling retpoline by default for bionic and all that entails
<sbeattie> I also need to finish my precise backport for retpoline
<sbeattie> I'll have some usual kernel cve triage to handle.
<sbeattie> The above will surely consume my week. tyhicks, over to you.
<tyhicks> sbeattie: do you plan to release the existing retpoline gcc updates in {artful,xenial}-proposed to -security early this week? (before the kernels go out)
<tyhicks> I ended up spending quite a bit of time on the new, in-development USN website last week
<sbeattie> tyhicks: good question, I'd not thought very hard about it, but that would make sense.
<tyhicks> sbeattie: please sync up w/ the kernel team to see how their testing is going, when they're planning on releasing, and then we can figure out when to push those updates out
<sbeattie> tyhicks: will do
<sarnold> .. probably folks with dkms systems would like those compilers pushed at the same time as the kernels?
<tyhicks> this week, I'll be fixing up any issues that are discovered while the team publishes USNs to the existing and new USN websites
<tyhicks> I need to focus on the LSM stacking demo that keeps getting pushed back
<tyhicks> I have an embargoed issues
<tyhicks> s/issues/issue/
<tyhicks> and there are some internal tasks that I'll be working on
<tyhicks> jjohansen: you're up
<jjohansen> I am going to be looking into a few reported bugs this week
<jjohansen> specifically the target domain name bug, for snappy (sorry browser crashed and lost all its tabs)
<jjohansen> and the stacking bug with px transitions that cjwatson hit
<jjohansen> I will also be working on a revised LSM stacking kernel
<jjohansen> and chasing down the bug with it where ssh doesn't work under selinux due to something in procattr
<jjohansen> I also have some prep work to do before tomorrow's apparmor meeting
<jjohansen> I think that is it for me sarnold you are up
<sarnold> I'm on cve triage this week; I'm working on the openjpeg2 mir, and want to file a few bug reports with the project that'll take a bit of extra time.
<sarnold> I'll also do some apparmor patch review if jj needs it; and then move on down the MIRs
<sarnold> I think that's is for me, chrisccoulson?
<chrisccoulson> I've got a firefox publication to finish up
<chrisccoulson> I also need to publish ubuntu-drivers-common - it's ready to go, but I don't know whether to just push it or wait for the updated kernels
<chrisccoulson> other than that, I've got no other planned updates (no rust updates either!), so I'll get to spend time looking at this audit thing
<chrisccoulson> of course, I can help out with other updates as well if anyone needs me too
<chrisccoulson> that's me done
<tyhicks> lionel: you're up
<tyhicks> sorry
<tyhicks> leosilva: you're up
<leosilva> hehe, I'm the happy place this week. And will have short week.
<leosilva> I'm working on wavpack and hunting for new pkgs to update.
<leosilva> that's it for me.
<leosilva> tyhicks: is back to you
<tyhicks> thanks
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Highlighted packages
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Highlighted packages
<tyhicks> The Ubuntu Security team suggests that contributors look into merging Debian security updates in community-supported packages. If you would like to help Ubuntu but are not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so. See http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/d2u/ for available merges and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details on preparing Ubuntu security
<tyhicks> updates. If you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-hardened. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved.
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Miscellaneous and Questions
<tyhicks> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
<tyhicks> jdstrand, mdeslaur, sbeattie, jjohansen, sarnold, ChrisCoulson, leosilva: Thanks!
<tyhicks> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Feb 12 16:58:41 2018 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2018/ubuntu-meeting.2018-02-12-16.36.moin.txt
<leosilva> tks tyhicks!
<mdeslaur> thanks tyhicks
<sarnold> thanks tyhicks!
<jjohansen> thanks tyhicks
<sbeattie> tyhicks: thanks!
<kokoye2007> hi
<Letozaf_> o/
<kyrofa> Hey folks
<thohi> good morning , here
<gsilvapt_> Hello all o/
<kenvandine> o/
<kyrofa> nhaines, you here?
<nhaines> kyrofa: I am!
<kyrofa> I think that's all of us, right? gsilvapt_ you want to run the bot today?
<gsilvapt_> I am on mobile it's not very convenient :-(
<kokoye2007> me 2
<kokoye2007> on yaaic
<kyrofa> Okay-- Letozaf_ you haven't done it yet, right? Want to?
<Letozaf_> :) ok
<kokoye2007> on the way and mid night :p
<gsilvapt_> Thanks :+1:
<Letozaf_> I need help :) no idea where to start
<kyrofa> Letozaf_, take a look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<Letozaf_> yes just saw it now
<kokoye2007> thanks gs
<kyrofa> Start the meeting, set chairs, and then set topics as we go
<Letozaf_> #startmeeting <Ubuntu Loco Team monthly meeting>
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Feb 12 20:04:03 2018 UTC.  The chair is Letozaf_. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <Ubuntu Loco Team monthly meeting> | Current topic:
<Letozaf_> #chair <Letozaf> <krofa> <gsilvapt> <nhaines> <kenvandine>
<meetingology> Warning: Nick not in channel: <Letozaf>
<meetingology> Warning: Nick not in channel: <krofa>
<meetingology> Warning: Nick not in channel: <gsilvapt>
<meetingology> Warning: Nick not in channel: <nhaines>
<meetingology> Warning: Nick not in channel: <kenvandine>
<meetingology> Current chairs: <Letozaf> <gsilvapt> <kenvandine> <krofa> <nhaines> Letozaf_
<kyrofa> Letozaf_, don't include the brackets
<Letozaf_> oooh...
<kyrofa> That syntax indicates a placeholder
<Letozaf_> lets try again
<Letozaf_> thanks
<Letozaf_> #chair Letozaf_ krofa gsilvapt nhaines kenvandine
<meetingology> Warning: Nick not in channel: krofa
<meetingology> Current chairs: <Letozaf> <gsilvapt> <kenvandine> <krofa> <nhaines> Letozaf_ gsilvapt kenvandine krofa nhaines
<Letozaf_> #chair kyrofa
<meetingology> Current chairs: <Letozaf> <gsilvapt> <kenvandine> <krofa> <nhaines> Letozaf_ gsilvapt kenvandine krofa kyrofa nhaines
<nhaines> #unchair <Letozaf> <gsilvapt> <kenvandine> <krofa> <nhaines>
<meetingology> Current chairs: Letozaf_ gsilvapt kenvandine krofa kyrofa nhaines
<Letozaf_> sorry for the mess
<nhaines> All better.  :D
<kyrofa> Unchair that krofa fellow and you're good
<Letozaf_> #unchair krofa
<meetingology> Current chairs: Letozaf_ gsilvapt kenvandine kyrofa nhaines
<Letozaf_> is someone missing ?
<kyrofa> Nope, I think we're good
<Letozaf_> For the topics, shall I get them from the Wiki ?
<kyrofa> Indeed, from our agenda
<Letozaf_> #meetingtopic Ubuntu Myanmar LoCo Team re-verification
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu Myanmar LoCo Team re-verification Meeting | Current topic:
<Letozaf_> #meetingtopic Ubuntu Switzerland LoCo Team re-verification
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu Switzerland LoCo Team re-verification Meeting | Current topic:
<kyrofa> Letozaf_, ah, one at a time
<kokoye2007> :)
<kyrofa> Once we finish one, change the topic, etc.
<Letozaf_> I was just wondering that
<Letozaf_> :)
<Letozaf_> let's do it again, ok ?
<kyrofa> Sure thing
<Letozaf_> #meetingtopic Ubuntu Myanmar LoCo Team re-verification
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu Myanmar LoCo Team re-verification Meeting | Current topic:
<kyrofa> Alright, everyone take a few moments to look over the Myanmar application. Note that the URL is incorrect, including wiki.ubuntu.com too many times
<kyrofa> Do we have anyone from the Myanmar LoCo here?
<nhaines> The correct URL is https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MyanmarTeam/VerificationApplication2017
<kenvandine> i noticed the wiki page hasn't been updated since november
<kokoye2007> yes me
<thohi> yes .
<kenvandine> hi kokoye2007!
<kyrofa> Indeed, nothing seems to have changed at all since November
<kenvandine> and thohi!
<kenvandine> but we have representatives here this month, woot!
<kokoye2007> we need update for 2018 3 event
<kyrofa> Very nice, welcome kokoye2007 and thohi
<kyrofa> kokoye2007, how about 2017? Did anything happen?
<kokoye2007> http://loco.ubuntu.com/teams/ubuntu-mm/events/history/
<Letozaf_> I see some pictures here : https://www.flickr.com/groups/ubuntu-mm/pool/ about the 17.10 release party
<kokoye2007> 19 event and still need update
<nhaines> Lots of activity there.  Were those events not important enough to be considered in the verification application?
<Letozaf_> maybe we didn't see them then
<kyrofa> Letozaf_, they're _still_ not on the application :)
<kenvandine> great turnout for the 17.10 release party
<kokoye2007> thanks
<kokoye2007> we make a lot of event and distribution
<thohi> We make other open source and open data events use with "contributed by Ubuntu Myanmar LoCo Team".
<kokoye2007> we never missed release party
<thohi> Is that also options for good ?
<thohi> If we put such events , We said in local Ubuntu is everywhere :)
<kyrofa> Just to remind everyone about our previous review, here are the relevant minutes: http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2017/ubuntu-meeting.2017-12-11-20.07.log.html#l-63
<kenvandine> kyrofa, thx
<kenvandine> kokoye2007, thohi: it would be nice to list those events on the re-verification
<kyrofa> kokoye2007, thohi the questions that are coming up this time are the same: it seems you're active, but your application still looks incomplete, the most recent event being in 2016
<kokoye2007> wooo
<kokoye2007> thanks for kindly
<kokoye2007> we missed this re application meeting
<kyrofa> kokoye2007, and you put yourselves on the agenda last month as well, with no changes
<kokoye2007> bcz of timezones and date. apologize. sorry
<kyrofa> We gave you this time to prepare your application, and I personally see no changes
<kenvandine> agreed
<kenvandine> we can see activity though, but it's not being documented on the reverification
<kokoye2007> yes. it's my bad
<kokoye2007> try to collect best event and photo. I still open in re application wiki edit
<kokoye2007> also we make user guide in local language
<kokoye2007> hello
<kokoye2007> ubuntumm.sf.net
<nhaines> kokoye2007: it doesn't look like the reverification application mentions a local language user guide.
<kenvandine> kokoye2007, that's great
<kokoye2007> sorry for application updated
<kokoye2007> bcz missed many event and activities
<kokoye2007> https://github.com/fossmyanmar/ubuntu-mm-wiki?files=1
<kokoye2007> it's one of old project. now we printed and share at event
<kokoye2007> like that we missed on wiki
<nhaines> That looks very comprehensive, but hasn't been updated in over two years.
<kenvandine> kokoye2007, thohi: it's great to see all that you have done, but I'd still really like to see it all on the application
<kokoye2007> yes
<kenvandine> i suggest we vote to approve ubuntu-mm for 1 more month to allow time to include all this awesome stuff on the application
<kenvandine> shall we vote?
<Letozaf_> #vote
<meetingology> Please vote on:
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
<Letozaf_> +1
<kokoye2007> every reapply and when we apply Ubuntu member application. we need more improve at wiki
<nhaines> Let's restart the vote.
<kyrofa> Letozaf_, the vote should have a topic (what are we voting on)
<kenvandine> hang on... include a description in what we are voting
<kokoye2007> thanks for your ...
<Letozaf_> sorry guys
<nhaines> #undo
<meetingology> Removing item from minutes: LINK
<nhaines> #endvote
<meetingology> No vote in progress
<Letozaf_> #vote for Myanmar LoCo Team re-verification
<meetingology> Please vote on: for Myanmar LoCo Team re-verification
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
<kyrofa> Letozaf_, that's okay! First time is always a bit weird :)
<kenvandine> Letozaf_, can we try one more time specifying extension :)
<Letozaf_> #vote approve Myanmar LoCo 1 month extension
<meetingology> Voting still open on: for Myanmar LoCo Team re-verification
<kyrofa> #undo
<meetingology> Removing item from minutes: LINK
<kyrofa> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: for Myanmar LoCo Team re-verification
<meetingology> Votes for:0 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Deadlock, casting vote may be used
<kyrofa> Darn
<Letozaf_> sorry for the mess
<kenvandine> no worries
<nhaines> #vote MyanmarTeam 1 month extension to update application
<meetingology> Please vote on: MyanmarTeam 1 month extension to update application
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
<kenvandine> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from kenvandine
<nhaines> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from nhaines
<Letozaf_> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from Letozaf_
<Gsilvapt_> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from Gsilvapt_
<kyrofa> -1 we have already granted an extension for exactly this, and it was not utilized
<meetingology> -1 we have already granted an extension for exactly this, and it was not utilized received from kyrofa
<Letozaf_> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: MyanmarTeam 1 month extension to update application
<meetingology> Votes for:4 Votes against:1 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<Letozaf_> (fiew)
<kenvandine> kokoye2007, thohi: please update that application including all this great stuff
<kokoye2007> thanks
<nhaines> kokoye2007: The application indicates that the LoCo is not active at all and has done nothing in the past year.  But we see that this isn't true!
<kenvandine> and please try to attend the meeting next month
<nhaines> So we need that to be in the application, because that's what we read a week before the meeting to help us make a decision.
<kenvandine> we'll vote then for full reverification
<Letozaf_> it's a pitty that all the work you do is not documented in the Wiki
<thohi> thanks , I will put other related events.
<nhaines> Plus, it will be helpful to you and to other LoCos to have that all in one place.  :)
<Letozaf_> #meetingtopic Ubuntu Switzerland LoCo re-verification
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu Switzerland LoCo re-verification Meeting | Current topic:
<Letozaf_> Anyone from the Switzerland LoCo around?
<Letozaf_> #topic Ubuntu Switzerland LoCo re-verification
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu Switzerland LoCo re-verification Meeting | Current topic: Ubuntu Switzerland LoCo re-verification
<Letozaf_> #meetingtopic Ubunut LoCo Team 12th February 2018 Montly meating
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubunut LoCo Team 12th February 2018 Montly meating Meeting | Current topic: Ubuntu Switzerland LoCo re-verification
<kyrofa> As a reminder, our previous review of SwissTeam was an extension. Minutes: http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2017/ubuntu-meeting.2017-12-11-20.07.log.html#l-320
<kyrofa> That was the big DRAFT one, heh
<Letozaf_> #meetingtopic Ubuntu LoCo Team 12th February 2018 montly meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu LoCo Team 12th February 2018 montly meeting | Current topic: Ubuntu Switzerland LoCo re-verification
<nhaines> In the meantime, they removed "DRAFT" and added a link to one event to plan for an 18.04 release party.
<kyrofa> Similar to before, I like their Linux Day site, which seems active
<nhaines> I still don't see any activity on the mailing list, Facebook page, or Flickr.
<kyrofa> This list of current events on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SwissTeam#Events_and_other_activities jumps from 2014 to 2018
<kyrofa> And 2018 events are "in planning"
<kyrofa> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SwissTeam/PastActivities goes to 2013
<nhaines> I have questions about their activity, but no one is here to answer them.  :/
<nhaines> I think we should move this application to Launchpad and get more information.  That way they don't need to be online at the meeting.
<kenvandine> nhaines, +1
<Gsilvapt_> Agreed
<Letozaf_> +1
<nhaines> #vote Provisional 1 month extension for SwissTeam and move application process to Launchpad.
<meetingology> Please vote on: Provisional 1 month extension for SwissTeam and move application process to Launchpad.
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
<kenvandine> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from kenvandine
<Letozaf_> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from Letozaf_
<nhaines> Lets make it official  :)
<nhaines> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from nhaines
<Gsilvapt_> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from Gsilvapt_
<kyrofa> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from kyrofa
<nhaines> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: Provisional 1 month extension for SwissTeam and move application process to Launchpad.
<meetingology> Votes for:5 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<nhaines> Okay, that should give them a chance to respond.  It *looks* like they're up to good things, but we need some more proof.
<Gsilvapt_> What's next in the agenda? There's something I'd like to ask the council but that can be done in the end
<Letozaf_> I think that's all with the agenda
<kyrofa> That should be it
<nhaines> I think that's all the agenda items.
<Gsilvapt_> Ok, so I want to ask something that also has to be asked to the Council. I don't know how many of you are aware of the Framework in the European Union about to be approved that can harm free and open source software
<Gsilvapt_> It's about copyright and such: https://savecodeshare.eu/
<Gsilvapt_> This covers most of it.
<Gsilvapt_> The Portuguese local team is considering helping other open and not-for-profit organisation but we are concerned about whether its part of our responsibility or not
<kyrofa> Whether what, exactly, is part of our responsibility?
<Gsilvapt_> If on one hand it is related with Ubuntu's core philosophy, we understand if this can be seen as taking a political stand point
<Gsilvapt_> And, obviously, we don't want to cross our limits as a LoCo
 * kenvandine isn't a lawyer, but i think in general it's good to support such causes
<nhaines> Ubuntu is comprised of Free and Open Source Software, so raising awareness of issues that impact the FOSS community and thus Ubuntu is definitely in your scope.  And it's okay to not take positions on such things, too.  That's for every LoCo to decide.
<kenvandine> spreading awareness is harmless
<nhaines> Some countries may allow this or disallow this, based on whether the LoCo is registered as a non-profit organization or not, so I think we can leave the decision up to every team.
<Gsilvapt_> Can we somehow mark it as an official decision? Just for the record
<kenvandine> oh, there are some loco's that are registered as non-profits?
<Gsilvapt_> I can still consult the Community Council, as I was expecting doing so anyways, but it would be great to have the LoCo Council's opinion
<Gsilvapt_> Well, the Portuguese is not @kenvandine
<nhaines> kenvandine: very popular in Europe as I understand.  :)
<kenvandine> i was just surprised to hear there are some that are
<nhaines> Allows them to take donations legally and to qualify for cultural grants and other nice things.
<kenvandine> true, but lots of paperwork :)
<Gsilvapt_> May make it worth it if they use its advantages often
<kenvandine> that's great
<Gsilvapt_> s/make/be
<kenvandine> i just hadn't considered that
<kenvandine> cool
<kenvandine> Gsilvapt_, i think our stance has to be that it's up to the individual locos
<kenvandine> as laws differ, etc
<Gsilvapt_> Regarding the previous issue, is there a way to record the Council's opinion on the issue I brought up?
<Gsilvapt_> Either by vote or something else
<Gsilvapt_> Makes sense @kenvandine
<nhaines> I'm trying to think of the right way to word that.
<nhaines> #vote Position statement: political activism that is related to Ubuntu, Free Software, or Open Source Software is acceptable, in accordance with each LoCo team's interest and their local laws.
<meetingology> Please vote on: Position statement: political activism that is related to Ubuntu, Free Software, or Open Source Software is acceptable, in accordance with each LoCo team's interest and their local laws.
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
<nhaines> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from nhaines
<kenvandine> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from kenvandine
<Gsilvapt_> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from Gsilvapt_
<Letozaf_> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from Letozaf_
<Gsilvapt_> Thank you everyone
<kyrofa> +0
<meetingology> +0 received from kyrofa
<nhaines> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: Position statement: political activism that is related to Ubuntu, Free Software, or Open Source Software is acceptable, in accordance with each LoCo team's interest and their local laws.
<meetingology> Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:1
<meetingology> Motion carried
<Gsilvapt_> I guess everything is carried out then :)
<nhaines> Gsilvapt_: good luck with that work.  :)
<Gsilvapt_> Thank you!
<kenvandine> i think that's everything
<Gsilvapt_> Should we end it?
<Letozaf_> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Feb 12 21:14:38 2018 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2018/ubuntu-meeting.2018-02-12-20.04.moin.txt
<nhaines> Thanks to everyone for coming.  :)
<Letozaf_> Bye everyone
<kenvandine> thanks everyone!
<Letozaf_> o/
<Gsilvapt_> Thanks everyone! o/
#ubuntu-meeting 2019-02-11
<sil2100> o/
<slashd> o/
<slashd> sorry I'm late
<slashd> No applicant this weeks but we have 2 topics one by cyphermox and one by me
<sil2100> Same here, not sure if there's anyone else though
<sil2100> Oh, what topics?
<slashd> slashd to handle raharper PPU access
<slashd> done ^
<slashd> cyphermox to handle the recent three packageset requests
<slashd> maybe that's old and agenda hasn't been clean ?? ^
<cyphermox> in progress
<sil2100> cyphermox: o/
<cyphermox> the update is "done" but I'm reviewing the gazillion differences
<slashd> it is worth to stat the meeting ? or you can say it's pretty much what we had to discuss this week ?
<slashd> sil2100, cyphermox ^
<cyphermox> (when you update seed-based packagesets it updates everything)
<cyphermox> yeah
<cyphermox> it's important to not forget it
<cyphermox> unfortunately here it takes a while to do each step, so I get distracted by something else and end up having to start over :P
<slashd> cyphermox, been there done that got the t-shirt ;)
<sil2100> ;)
<slashd> sil2100, cyphermox ok well let's call it a meeting ! See you guys next week then
<sil2100> See you o/
#ubuntu-meeting 2019-02-14
<xnox> bug #1
<ubottu> bug 1 in Ubuntu Malaysia LoCo Team "Microsoft has a majority market share" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1
<xnox> LP: #2
 * vorlon waves
<juliank> oooooooooooooooooooo/
<cyphermox> o/
<sil2100> o/
<vorlon> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Feb 14 16:02:35 2019 UTC.  The chair is vorlon. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<vorlon> [TOPIC] Lightning round
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Lightning round
<vorlon> $ echo $(shuf -e vorlon bdmurray xnox tdaitx doko sil2100 rbalint infinity cyphermox mwhudson juliank waveform)
<vorlon> rbalint sil2100 cyphermox xnox tdaitx vorlon juliank waveform mwhudson doko bdmurray infinity
<sil2100> Oh noo
<sil2100> Not ready yet
<vorlon> no rbalint today
<vorlon> sil2100 says he's not ready
<vorlon> cyphermox:
<cyphermox> guess it's my turn then
<cyphermox> - SRU verifications for trusty, xenial: shim-signed, dkms
<cyphermox> - debugging efibootmgr "block device required issues (can't reproduce) (bug LP: #1805490)
<cyphermox> - testing for cryptsetup-on-nvme issues "invalid line in crypttab" (bug LP: #1767527)
<cyphermox> - more revisions for Secure Boot/DKMS whitepaper
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1805490 in grub2-signed (Ubuntu) "Grub2 Failed to install "efibootmgr failed to register the boot entry: Block device required."" [High,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1805490
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1767527 in cryptsetup "[18.04] Installation boot failure. WARNING: invalid line in /etc/crypttab" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1767527
<cyphermox> - preparing netplan 0.96 release
<cyphermox>  - moving packaging to gbp tree; started preparing SRUs for >=bionic
<cyphermox>  - debugging NetworkManager failures w/ autopkgtests in disco
<cyphermox> - in-progress: plymouth merge
<cyphermox> (done)
<xnox> SRUS:
<xnox> bug #1790831
<xnox> bug #1800867
<xnox> bug #1813888
<xnox> bug #1806483
<xnox> bug #1815482
<ubottu> bug 1790831 in Ubuntu on IBM z Systems "lstape, lsluns: handle non-zfcp; lin_tape multiple paths" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1790831
<ubottu> bug 1800867 in Ubuntu on IBM z Systems "[18.10 FEAT] zcrypt DD: introduce APQN tags to support deterministic driver binding - s390tools part" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1800867
<xnox> bug #1815481
<ubottu> Error: Could not gather data from Launchpad for bug #1813888 (https://launchpad.net/bugs/1813888). The error has been logged
<ubottu> bug 1806483 in Ubuntu on IBM z Systems "Ubuntu 18.04.1 - OpenSSL RSA connection rate performance degradation using ibmca engine (openssl-ibmca)" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1806483
<xnox> bug #1815475
<ubottu> bug 1815482 in python-imaplib2 (Ubuntu Bionic) "python-imaplib2 needs to support SNI for OpenSSL 1.1.1" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1815482
<xnox> bug #1815474
<ubottu> bug 1815481 in python-httplib2 (Ubuntu Bionic) "python-httplib2 needs to support SNI for OpenSSL 1.1.1" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1815481
<xnox> bug #1815472
<ubottu> bug 1815475 in libevent-rpc-perl (Ubuntu Bionic) "libevent-rpc-perl FTBFS in bionic, expired test certs" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1815475
<ubottu> bug 1815474 in bind9 (Ubuntu Bionic) "bind9 FTBFS in bionic, regression in updates" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1815474
<xnox> bug #1812667
<ubottu> bug 1815472 in uvloop (Ubuntu Bionic) "uvloop FTBFS in bionic, regression in updates" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1815472
<xnox> bug #1815439
<ubottu> bug 1812667 in isync (Ubuntu Cosmic) "Can't verify some ssl certificates (e.g. imap.gmail.com)" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1812667
<xnox> Disco:
<ubottu> bug 1815439 in python-boto (Ubuntu Cosmic) "python-boto needs to support SNI for OpenSSL 1.1.1" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1815439
<xnox> btrfs-progs https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=920886
<ubottu> Debian bug 920886 in btrfs-progs "btrfs-progs: btrfs send failed to determine mount point for snapshots stored in /" [Important,Fixed]
<xnox> bug #1784643
<ubottu> bug 1784643 in Ubuntu on IBM z Systems "[19.04 FEAT] scsi: zfcp: add port speed capabilities (lib-zfcp-hbaapi)" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1784643
<xnox> bug #1815484
<ubottu> bug 1815484 in Ubuntu on IBM z Systems "[19.04 FEAT] Upgrade cryptsetup 2.1.0" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1815484
<xnox> systemd fixups for new cryptsetup
<xnox> fixup FTBFS libemf with a cludge
<xnox> fixing PATH in the initramfs-tools bug #1814355
<ubottu> bug 1814355 in snapd (Ubuntu) "snapd remove /usr/local/bin from the PATH for all systemd unit (bionic SRU regression)" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1814355
<xnox> working on fatinitrd for subiquity, not good so far
 * sil2100 is ready
<xnox> (and done)
<xnox> sil2100, go, i guess =)
<sil2100> o/
<sil2100> - SRU reviews and releases
<sil2100> - Kernel reviews
<sil2100> - 18.04.2:
<sil2100>   * Adding the arm64+raspi3 image to the QA tracker
<sil2100>   * Refreshing .2 changelog on wiki
<sil2100>   * Preparing initial core18 .2 image candidates
<sil2100>   * Fixing up splash for core18 raspi3 arm64, rebuilding release candidates
<sil2100>   * Requesting validation or the core18 rc images
<sil2100>   * Whipping people about .2 iso-testing
<sil2100>   * Testing xubuntu i386, encountering strange kvm bug on my cosmic machine
<sil2100> - Filling bug for the 'wipes current if symling for new targets' for cdimage (LP: #1815448)
<sil2100> - Filling bug and proposing fix for the checksum-directory issues (LP: 1815592)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1815448 in Ubuntu CD Images "Auto-publishing completely new image types from pending to current can clobber existing images in current" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1815448
<sil2100> - Writing some tests for the old-releases archival scripting
<sil2100> - Testing linux-firmware-raspi2 with the config.txt
<sil2100> - Work on core18 promotion
<sil2100> - Various discussions re: core18
<sil2100> - Shorter week due to some errands, valentines-business and travel preparation
<sil2100> (done)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1815592 in Ubuntu CD Images "checksum-directory does not re-use checksums from olddirs" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1815592
<sil2100> tdaitx: your turn I guess!
<vorlon> tdaitx is out
<vorlon>  * merged new upstream version of pam
<vorlon>  * doing some remedial merges from Debian
<vorlon>  * looking at TPMs
<vorlon>  * was out yesterday; will be out tomorrow, and in Malta next week
<vorlon> (done)
<juliank> * apt/{unstable,disco} 1.8.0~rc3
<juliank> * apt/trusty 1.0.1ubuntu2.20 (LP: #1815187, LP: #1815129)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1815187 in apt (Ubuntu Trusty) "Fix crash when opening DepCache before Cache" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1815187
<juliank> * apt/disco 1.8.0~rc3ubuntu1 (testing work on LP: #1815760, LP: #1815761)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1815129 in apt (Ubuntu Trusty) "apt segfaults when generating cache file" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1815129
<juliank> * build a demo package to demo the hooks in the previous two bugs
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1815760 in apt (Ubuntu Disco) "Additional hooks for update" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1815760
<juliank> * planning takeover of python-apt distro info by distro-info (Debian Bug #922232)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1815761 in apt (Ubuntu Disco) "Alternative to Dpkg::Post-Invoke that runs even if dpkg did not have to be invoked" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1815761
<ubottu> Debian bug 922232 in src:distro-info "src:distro-info: Please take over distro info from python-apt" [Wishlist,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/922232
<juliank> * some discussions
<juliank> (done)
<xnox> vorlon, do TPMs look up to you in return?
<waveform> * Testing upgrade from beta release to current on various Pi models (2B, 3B, 3B+, CM3, CM3+)
<waveform> * Fixed flash-kernel to include db entry for CM3 and CM3+, verifying
<waveform> * Attempted (failed) to get CM3+ booting classic or core images
<waveform> * Pushed patches for building and revision detection upstream for wiringPi
<vorlon> xnox: no eyes
<waveform> * Investigated "degraded" state of initial boot on current release; kernel-modules was not Pi specific, but network-wait is (investigating further on the latter)
<waveform> * Preparing SRU for RPi.GPIO and gpiozero (bionic)
<waveform> (done)
<vorlon> doko:
<doko> - updating cross compiler packages
<doko> - updated gdb to the current trunk
<doko> - report binutils upstream issues
<doko> - openjdk-12 update
<doko> - prepare for GCC 8.3 prerelease
<doko> - finally got my openjdk jira account
<doko> - wrote up list of Malta topics
<doko> (done)
<vorlon> bdmurray is off today
<vorlon> no infinity
<vorlon> any questions?
<vorlon> [TOPIC] Bugs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Bugs
<vorlon> [LINK] http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-dd-incoming-bug-tasks.html#foundations-bugs
<vorlon> well, I think LP: #1815774 needs to come across
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1815774 in binutils (Ubuntu) "binutils 2.32 update breaks debug symbols in disco" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1815774
<doko> the new gdb handles this
<doko> but somebody would need to look at apport's failing autopkg tests to let that one migrate
<vorlon> doko: ok, do you mind writing that on the bug?
<vorlon> LP: #1805490, I think cyphermox may have been looking at this already
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1805490 in grub2-signed (Ubuntu) "Grub2 Failed to install "efibootmgr failed to register the boot entry: Block device required."" [High,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1805490
<xnox> doko, but then we need that gdb backported and installed on the retracer, or do those use chroots to do its thing?
<cyphermox> yes
<vorlon> cyphermox: should we go ahead and commit to that?
<xnox> (ie. we don't need it back on like xenial or something)
<cyphermox> I already have a card in progress for it.
<vorlon> that's different than committing :)
<cyphermox> oh, is it? :)
<cyphermox> sure, let's poke it appropriately, but it's irreproducible so far
<vorlon> (but I'll take it so we don't have to discuss it further)
<cyphermox> fortunately, I got some responsez
<doko> xnox: sorry, I don't know anything about the retracer setup
<vorlon> the retracers do use gdb from the target release, based on past bugs of this class
<vorlon> LP: #1807900
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1807900 in update-manager (Ubuntu Bionic) "update-manager suggests to use Livepatch, which is not available" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1807900
<vorlon> this is already assigned to andyrock; I'll go ahead and target it
<vorlon> then a ubiquity bug assigned to Laney
<vorlon> LP: #1814109
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1814109 in libarchive (Ubuntu Disco) "Nautilus corrupts 7z archive files when extracting via 'Extract here' context menu" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1814109
<vorlon> hmm did we discuss this efore?
<vorlon> before
<vorlon> right, we're waiting for upstream
<vorlon> LP: #1815201
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1815201 in mdadm (Ubuntu) "mdadm checkraid cronjob runs at the same time" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1815201
<xnox> i think i should take that
<xnox> and move it to systemd timers
<vorlon> ok
<xnox> but do we need to backport that to pre-xenial?
<xnox> i'm not sure what the originators OS is
<xnox> vorlon, is this recent releases only? or needed everywhere?
<vorlon> there's a bug task for xenial, but three years after release it mustn't be that critical; let's focus on the devel series firsst
<vorlon> that's all the highs
<vorlon> [TOPIC] proposed-migration
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: proposed-migration
<vorlon> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/disco/update_excuses_by_team.html#foundations-bugs
<vorlon> was looking better for a while, now it's looking worse
<vorlon> has anyone looked at this bison/kpatch thing?  it's a reproducible failure
<xnox> vorlon, well the bug task was added by me
<vorlon> xnox: ah
<vorlon> does anyone want to claim kpatch/bison for investigation?
<cyphermox> vorlon: I could
<vorlon> [ACTION] cyphermox to investigate bison/kpatch regression
<meetingology> ACTION: cyphermox to investigate bison/kpatch regression
<vorlon> cyphermox: thanks
<cyphermox> in fact, I shall
<xnox> cyphermox, you may
<cyphermox> wonderful.
<xnox> delighted
<vorlon> then salt seems to have regressed multiple ways, I don't know if it's een reproduced with a release pocket baseline
<gaughen> libimagequant0 - is that rbalint?
<doko> no, that's a MIR waiting for security review
<vorlon> ah, maybe it needs a --all-proposed
<gaughen> nvrmind, sounds like it's an mir and cyphermox is on it
<vorlon> I'll look into the salt stuff
<vorlon> [ACTION] vorlon to investigate salt autopkgtest failures
<meetingology> ACTION: vorlon to investigate salt autopkgtest failures
<vorlon> fwupd is stalled on component-mismatches
<vorlon> there's an MIR bug for libxmlb, so in progress
<vorlon> usbutils
<vorlon> xnox: ^^
<xnox> that looks like usb.ids needs to be promoted to main.... cause split into separate source package or whatever
<cyphermox> yup, MIR reviewed already
<cyphermox> vorlon: fwiw for libxmlb I wouldn't be against pre-promoting, I think
<vorlon> cyphermox: which one?
<cyphermox> I did assign to security but it's more like "hey, there's a crapton of code, it looks good to me but OMG"
<vorlon> ok
<vorlon> I don't think it's urgent to pre-promote
<cyphermox> ack
<cyphermox> if someone else in theMIR team wants to have a look at the code too, maybe we can just mark it Fix Committed
<cyphermox> doko: ^
<doko> which one?
<vorlon> xnox: can you confirm that it is a split of the source package, and then I can promote?
<cyphermox> libxmlb
<xnox> vorlon, it is https://tracker.debian.org/news/1028104/accepted-usbids-20190117-1-source-all-into-unstable-unstable/
<vorlon> [ACTION] vorlon to get usb.ids sorted for main
<meetingology> ACTION: vorlon to get usb.ids sorted for main
<vorlon> python-setuptools has a bunch of non-salt autopkgtest regressions, which proably need investigation
<vorlon> any volunteers for that?
<xnox> ewww
<cyphermox> xnox: affects meson
<xnox> not me
<gaughen> juliank wants it@!
<juliank> +0.5
<vorlon> [ACTION] juliank to investigate python-setuptools autopkgtest regressions
<meetingology> ACTION: juliank to investigate python-setuptools autopkgtest regressions
<vorlon> last but not least, netbase/ipset
<doko> I looked at the meson issue, it's a gdc regression. don't know if there are more
<vorlon> I think doko wants netbase
<gaughen> doko, it's all about the base
<doko> vorlon: dave needs training ;p
<gaughen> waveform, ?
<xnox> hmmm
<xnox> i could look into meson, i have done bits of it before
<xnox> and systemd uses meson.....
<vorlon> [ACTION] waveform to investigate netbase/ipset with cyphermox to support
<meetingology> ACTION: waveform to investigate netbase/ipset with cyphermox to support
<vorlon> and done
<vorlon> [TOPIC] AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<vorlon> anything else?
<gaughen> yes, vorlon, bdmurray had another bug to look at
<gaughen> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/1815691
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1815691 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "disk not detected on an Intel NUC7i5BNHXF" [Undecided,New]
<vorlon> should we target this to disco?
<gaughen> vorlon, seems like we should
<xnox> Feb  4 22:03:10 ubuntu kernel: [    9.323672] ahci 0000:00:17.0: Switch your BIOS from RAID to AHCI mode to use them.
<vorlon> ok taking
<vorlon> anything else else?
<gaughen> no
<vorlon> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Feb 14 16:52:51 2019 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2019/ubuntu-meeting.2019-02-14-16.02.moin.txt
<vorlon> thanks, all!
<sil2100> o/
#ubuntu-meeting 2020-02-10
<slashd> o/
<ddstreet> o/ here to support/cheer-on dgadomski
<rbasak> o/
<sil2100> o/
<slashd> cyphermox, still around ?
<mfo> o/ dgadomski
<dgadomski> o/
<slashd> Let's give cyphermox a couple of minutes, I talked to him earlier and he should be able to join.
<ivoks> o/
<cyphermox> oi
<slashd> #startmeeting DMB meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Feb 10 14:59:58 2020 UTC.  The chair is slashd. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | DMB meeting | Current topic:
<slashd> #topic Review of previous action items
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | DMB meeting | Current topic: Review of previous action items
<slashd> #subtopic slashd handsome_feng Email interview
<slashd> rbasak's endorsement re-validation request seemed to have been answers by most (if not by all) endorser. Currently pending on cyphermox and rbasak's votes.
<rbasak> tsimonq2 hasn't replied yet
<cyphermox> I will vote today
<slashd> rbasak, ok so you prefer to wait for tsimonq2 re-endorsement ?
<rbasak> I had been waiting.
<slashd> rbasak, all good
<rbasak> I guess I can continue without, if he doesn't get back to us.
<rbasak> Let's give people some reasonable amount of time to respond.
<rbasak> Say a week? I'm not sure how long it's been.
<rbasak> I'd also like to update the application process page to avoid this situation occurring again.
<rbasak> Which I intend to JFDI, if people are fine with that.
<slashd> JFDI ?
<slashd> I'm bad with acronym
<rbasak> Just ... and Do It.
<slashd> gotcha
<slashd> rbasak, ok let's give it til friday then ?
<rbasak> Well, with no and.
<sil2100> My vote for handsome_feng is still valid if anything
<rbasak> Yes, OK.
<slashd> rbasak, good thanks
<slashd> #subtopic  re-election
<slashd> anything to add on this ?
<rbasak> The nomination period ends soon
<rbasak> I would like more nominations
<rbasak> Please be self-nominating
<slashd> if you are a coredev or MOTU ^
<slashd> I guess that's all we had in term of items to discussed, unless someone have something to add, we have 1 applicant today, Dariusz Gadomski (dgadomski). He is applying for the SRU Developer application.
<slashd> dgadomski, can you introduce yourself ?
<dgadomski> sure
<slashd> wiki page: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/dgadomski/UbuntuSRUDeveloperApplication
<dgadomski> Hi. I'm Dariusz. I work for Canonical. I am a member of the Sustaining Engineering team where I mainly work on bugs reported by Ubuntu Advantage customers. I'm applying for SRU developer.
<slashd> Do you guys have question for Dariusz ?
<cyphermox> I do not
<rbasak> dgadomski: how do you find the SRU process? Is there anything you would change?
<dgadomski> rbasak: I have seen it working well for years, I haven't noticed problems with the process itself, I'm not sure how that would fit in the process but maybe extending the number of people testing -proposed would bring an improvement
<rbasak> OK, thanks!
<rbasak> I have no more questions.
<sil2100> dgadomski: I have one question:
<slashd> I don't have question for Dariusz.
<sil2100> dgadomski: actually... looking at the upload history I already got my answer! Nevermind then ;)
<sil2100> No questions from me
<slashd> sil2100, lol
<slashd> seems like we are done with questions
<slashd> let's vote
<slashd> #vote Please vote on: (dgadomski) SRU Developer
<meetingology> Please vote on: Please vote on: (dgadomski) SRU Developer
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
<slashd> #voterequired 4
<sil2100> (wanted to ask about SRU requirements re: devel work, but then again I see the applicant already demonstrates the required knowledge)
<sil2100> ;)
<slashd> sil2100, and it's a sru developer application, we don't expect much devel work w/ that application
<sil2100> Yeah, but it's important to know what the stage of the package should be in devel for a fix to be SRUed
<slashd> right
<slashd> +1 been working w/ dgadomski for several years, I've witnessed a lot of his work (MIR w/ pcp package, SRU, and other Ubuntu aspect). dgadomski will be a great asset to the SRU developer team.
<meetingology> +1 been working w/ dgadomski for several years, I've witnessed a lot of his work (MIR w/ pcp package, SRU, and other Ubuntu aspect). dgadomski will be a great asset to the SRU developer team. received from slashd
<rbasak> +1 track record looks good and there are endorsements from recent sponsors
<meetingology> +1 track record looks good and there are endorsements from recent sponsors received from rbasak
<cyphermox> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from cyphermox
<rbasak> FWIW, SRUs to three packages in the past year is on the lower boundary of what I'd accept though.
<sil2100> +1 (everything solid from the SRU developer POV - for core-dev I'd still like to see more devel work though!)
<meetingology> +1 (everything solid from the SRU developer POV - for core-dev I'd still like to see more devel work though!) received from sil2100
<slashd> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: Please vote on: (dgadomski) SRU Developer
<meetingology> Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<slashd> Congrats dgadomski !
<rbasak> However everything I've seen looks diligently done - thank you!
<ivoks> congrats dgadomski \o/ :)
<ddstreet> congrats dgadomski!
<dgadomski> thank you :)
<mfo> dgadomski, congrats! o/
<slashd> Thanks everyone for joining the meeting, I guess we are done for today !
<slashd> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Feb 10 15:22:40 2020 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2020/ubuntu-meeting.2020-02-10-14.59.moin.txt
<rbasak> slashd: uh
<rbasak> slashd: actions for making that change happen please?
<slashd> rbasak, right I'll take care of it
<rbasak> Thanks :)
<slashd> rbasak, sorry forgot to mention ;)
<sil2100> I could take that one if anything
<slashd> sil2100, do you want to take care of the announcement ?
<slashd> I'll do the LP stuff
<slashd> otherwise I can do both, not a big deal
<slashd> sil2100, nevermind I'll do the announcement
<sil2100> slashd: ok, I'll leave those in your hands then o/
#ubuntu-meeting 2020-02-11
<doko> o/
<didrocks> he
<doko> cpaelzer, jamespage, joining?
<jamespage> o/
<jamespage> yep
<doko> let's start with component mismatches
<doko> https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/component-mismatches-proposed.svg
<doko> didrocks: can you do/forward alsa-lib?
<didrocks> doko: I will forward it
<cpaelzer> here
<doko> and I didn't look at the status of ghostscript/fonts, although cpaelzer did
<didrocks> doko: actually, itâs the kernel team who maintains alsa
<didrocks> so I guess it should be them filing the MIR
<doko> jamespage: cinder/python-tabulate ?
<didrocks> (looking at alsa-lib subscriber)
<cpaelzer> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/fonts-urw-base35/+bug/1862048 was waiting for a subscriber
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1862048 in ghostscript (Ubuntu) "[MIR] fonts-urw-base35" [High,New]
<cpaelzer> didrocks: you  said you can't do so and pinged others
<cpaelzer> has this happened?
<didrocks> yes
<didrocks> desktop-packages is sub
<joeubuntu> sorry all, late to the meeting.
<cpaelzer> Then this is ready for promotion @didrocks
<didrocks> will do after this meeting
<cpaelzer> I updated the bug accordingly
<doko> I'll forward apport/terminator to foundations
<cpaelzer> there are two more in te new MIR queue
<doko> and doing the licensecheck ones
<cpaelzer> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/?field.searchtext=&orderby=-date_last_updated&field.status%3Alist=NEW&assignee_option=none&field.assignee=&field.subscriber=ubuntu-mir
<cpaelzer> telp / amtk - has anyone context on those?
<didrocks> I donât but Iâll handle it
<doko> gedit
<didrocks> them*
<cpaelzer> thanks didrocks, IÃll assign you ont he bugs then
<didrocks> thx
<cpaelzer> Lets also look at the recently modified incomplete
<doko> so the open one is cinder/python-tabulate
<cpaelzer> whiel I fetch the Link I think Laney wanted to talk about something
<cpaelzer> Laney: around?
<cpaelzer> incomplete MIRs
<cpaelzer> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/?field.searchtext=&orderby=-date_last_updated&field.status%3Alist=INCOMPLETE_WITH_RESPONSE&field.status%3Alist=INCOMPLETE_WITHOUT_RESPONSE&field.subscriber=ubuntu-mir
<cpaelzer> jeepeney was done alst week and needs no further action for now
<doko> this list is long
<cpaelzer> they don't auto-expire
<cpaelzer> doko: therefore - we only look at the last touched
<cpaelzer> although when in Frankfurt on the sprint we could clear out the past if all us want to do so
<cpaelzer> should be a quick everyone-nods-and-set-invalid pass
<cpaelzer> ec2-instance-connect still is disliked by me and security
<cpaelzer> but I know rbalint is working on it
<cpaelzer> anyone haveing any other MIRish topic to discuss ?
<didrocks> nothing here
<doko> jamespage: still here?
<jamespage> yep
<jamespage> sorry - multi-tasking never helps == multi-failing
<jamespage> I think there was one new security MIR added to the queue for joeubuntu's team
<jamespage> in the last week - masakari
<doko> filed https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/python-tabulate/+bug/1862773
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1862773 in python-tabulate (Ubuntu) "[MIR] python-tabulate (dependency of cinder)" [High,Incomplete]
<doko> joeubuntu: ^^^
<jamespage> masakari is in the backlog on the security team trello so its in the queue
<jamespage> thanks
<jamespage> doko: coreycb or I will pickup completion of that MIR for tabulate
<joeubuntu> IT's on the list, thanks doko
<doko> ta
<doko> anything else?
<cpaelzer> I think we are good
<cpaelzer> as I said Laney had some question
<cpaelzer> but I don't know which one, only that didrocks and I said plese get to the IRC meeting to talk about it
<cpaelzer> didrocks: do you know what it was about?
<didrocks> I don't at all
<didrocks> we have our desktop meeting in 10 min, so he should soon be around
<cpaelzer> hmm later/next time then
<cpaelzer> oh that is good
<cpaelzer> Oh FYI I won't be here next week (PTO)
<doko> see you, bye
<cpaelzer> cu
<didrocks> enjoy cpaelzer :)
<didrocks> doko: just to be clear: Iâll let you handle alsa-lib dep with the kernel team if you donât mind
<doko> didrocks: to be clear, doing adminstrative work on a MIR doesn't have to be done just be me
<doko> now https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/alsa-ucm-conf/+bug/1862776
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1862776 in alsa-ucm-conf (Ubuntu) "[MIR] alsa-ucm-conf & alsa-topology-conf (b-d of alsa-lib)" [High,Incomplete]
<didrocks> I donât think filing an empty MIR really helps in moving the discussion forward with the people who need to deal with it, but probably material for discussing in Frankfurt
<Laney> back here
<Laney> is the meeting still going obn?
<didrocks> it's done
<Laney> meh
<didrocks> but I guess you can write here, people seem still being around
<cpaelzer> yep
<Laney> it's not on the fridge calendar btw
<Laney> yeah ok, so there's a project going on at the minute with some of us @ canonical
<Laney> basically the goal is to make the oem enablement tweaks that some hardware requires, and comes with when you buy it with ubuntu pre-loaded, also available if you buy with another OS and install Ubuntu yourself
<Laney> essentially requires defining extra packages to install for different hardware
<cpaelzer> doko: jamespage: joeubuntu: ^^ highlight to make you come back to the meeting :-)
<Laney> we're going to do this by including metapackages on the iso that declare what they're compatibile with, and dynamically installing them
<Laney> now "on the iso" implies "in main"
<Laney> and "package*s*" implies many
<Laney> so I'm coming to you to try to work out an exception for this
<cpaelzer> This sounds familiar, did you bring that up on the last engineering sprint already?
<Laney> I did write up a draft here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MIRTeam/Exceptions/OEM
<Laney> yes
<Laney> the idea is that packages which fit that draft can go in without MIR
<cpaelzer> great, the exception is what I'd have asked for
 * cpaelzer reading ...
<cpaelzer> so the real content is in an extra apt archive
<cpaelzer> and this is really just abotu the meta-packages to go onto the iso
<cpaelzer> that was unclear last time we talked, thanks for adding the link on the wiki page
<Laney> more or less, and that part is being considered by the TB
<Laney> the meta pkgs themselves are super trivial
<didrocks> how many of those packages per release do you expect to see during a release life?
<Laney> no idea
<Laney> that all depends on how many laptops are enabled which is a bit beyond my field of view
<Laney> but you could say several
<didrocks> wondering as well about the burden on the SRU team, but thatâs another topic (to see if the mechanism is realistic)
<cpaelzer> Laney: I know it was only an idea back then when we talked - but is there any chance to get a linter-script for these rules ont that wiki page?
<didrocks> anyway, if we expect several, I think we should have an automated checker for them
<cpaelzer> the AAs could use that to verify that the package follows the rules before promotions
<didrocks> exactly :)
<cpaelzer> hehe, same thoughts it seems
<Laney> explain more
<Laney> please
<cpaelzer> Laney: I think the definitions on the page are good
<cpaelzer> Laney: the next step would be writing and attaching a script of some sort
<Laney> I don't really have weeks to spend writing a script
<Laney> or days even
<Laney> so if that blocks this, it might do so for some time
<cpaelzer> well, if we don't have such a thing the AAs will ahve to manually check against the defnitions ont his page
<cpaelzer> which can work, but is error prone as we all know
<cpaelzer> and it scales wit hthe number of packages that will go this path
<didrocks> and can consume even more time depending on how many packages we are talking about (which we should know before starting this)
<didrocks> I guess the OEM team can give some estimation
<cpaelzer> Laney: IMHO it will not stall the approval of this approach to not (yet) have this script
<cpaelzer> But once the actual "please promote on the base of this" happens
<cpaelzer> then having one will make it fast
<cpaelzer> and lacking that checker will make it slow and the AAs grumpy
<Laney> ok I can put it on the list, but I have to deliver the project itself as a higher priority, hope you understand
<cpaelzer> absolutely
<didrocks> I think it can be seem as a broken record, but I would really like to have at least have a guess estimate of the number of packages we are talking about
<Laney> didrocks: can you explain the background behind your request?
<Laney> if it's 10, you prefer to review them all manually?
<Laney> but 15 not?
<didrocks> I guess 10 is indeed ok, but if itâs 30, the script should be mandatory before we start such a process
<Laney> it's an interesting one
<didrocks> as AA will likely spend more time and it will be more error-prone
<Laney> if you decline this exception then it is the *MIR* team that gets more work
<juliank> It's not that hard to have one package as a reference, and then run debdiff against any new ones, though
<Laney> I'm interested because it saves me paperwork, but you should be because it saves you MIRs to review
<juliank> And that provides a reasonable review base, I'd guess
<cpaelzer> that is a simple approach to such a helper script
<cpaelzer> good hint juliank
<didrocks> Iâm more thinking about MIR/AA/SRU in general, and not not caring just to deliver but giving the load to others
<Laney> I'm saying the difference between declining until I write a script and approving without the script isn't that great
<Laney> it's the addition of some paperwork
<Laney> but if debdiffing some template is OK, ...
<didrocks> which will back-pressure all parties to have a script
<didrocks> or it will never happen because life and next projectsâ¦
<juliank> "debdiff <first .dsc> <new .dsc> | filterdiff -p1 -x debian/changelog -x debian/modaliases" should be enough of a script
<didrocks> yep
<Laney> seriously?
<joeubuntu> This sounds like a method to just get around MIRs,  will the packages that get installed be supported for 10 years?
<Laney> it is a method to get around MIRs
<Laney> they'll be supported for the life of the release yes
<Laney> get around in the sense that doing MIRs will be extremely repetitive
<joeubuntu> But the burden of support isn't any lower, shouldn't we do some validation of the packages supportability?
<cpaelzer> joeubuntu: the packages will have no "active" content
<cpaelzer> joeubuntu: we essentially do the validation on the template
<cpaelzer> and then based on that provide a fast path as long as that pattern is matched
<joeubuntu> OK, that makes sense.
<joeubuntu> Thanks
<cpaelzer> Laney: please correct me if your plan changed from what I barely remember from half a year ago :-)
<cpaelzer> Laney: maybe the words in the last few messages here could be added to the wiki
<Laney> no that's it
<cpaelzer> it seems they help to calrify
<Laney> so that debdiff thing, that is ok for a script for you?
<Laney> I can upload a 'good' template somewhere and then just add that to the page ...
<cpaelzer> yeah, if you attach the files needed and how to invoke to the wiki that should be ok
<didrocks> I think so, just wrap it in an helper for the AA and thatâs fine
<cpaelzer> a repo somewhere and a link to it from the wiki might be even better than an attachment
<didrocks> I would really put that in lp:ubuntu-archive-tools
<cpaelzer> didrocks: weren't there a aa-helper repository somewhere?
<cpaelzer> yes that is what i was looking for
<cpaelzer> Laney: would that work for you (not stalling you too much) but giving you what you need?
<Laney> I thought you wanted an actual static verifier, but this should be ok if you don't mind
<cpaelzer> we are all reasonable people, in a perfect world there would be a super-duper-verifier - but this seems to work
<cpaelzer> if it turns out it does not it will slow down the AAs and thereby your packages from promotion
<didrocks> and all packages will have a very strong testsuite in them :p and and andâ¦ :)
<cpaelzer> but I think this will be good
<juliank> Oh, test suite
<didrocks> ahah
<cpaelzer> Laney: would you ping me once you updated the wiki/repo please?
<juliank> It would be nice to have autopkgtest that installs it and run apt update I guess to ensure there's no typos in the .list entry
<cpaelzer> we lack the people to "sign-off" on this atm, but I can send a mail to the MIR team then
<Laney> cpaelzer: ok, I will do, thanks
 * Laney ignores juliank trying to load more work onto this
<cpaelzer> juliank: good suggestion
<cpaelzer> lets add it only as a bonus-objective to avoid the anger of Laney
<didrocks> heh
<Laney> if you're being cool you'd do it with autodep8
<Laney> and *that* would be the static verifier
 * Laney runs
<juliank> Oh yeah, I should write an autodep8 module for verifying packages which install sources.list entries
<didrocks> yeah, but nothing ensures you that in the long run, the repo is still valid
<didrocks> and have needed packages
<didrocks> but anyway, letâs move on :)
<didrocks> (or you need regularly running autodep8, which in the end is a jenkins-like solution with reporting and so onâ¦)
<Laney> funny thing but juliank is at some point in our lives going to work on something similar to that
#ubuntu-meeting 2020-02-13
<juliank> o/
<sil2100> o/
<waveform> \o
<bdmurray> o/
<rbalint> \o/
<bdmurray> #startmeeting Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Feb 13 16:01:15 2020 UTC.  The chair is bdmurray. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic:
<bdmurray> #topic Lightning rounds
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: Lightning rounds
<bdmurray> echo $(shuf -e vorlon bdmurray xnox tdaitx doko sil2100 rbalint infinity mwhudson juliank waveform)
<bdmurray> vorlon rbalint xnox tdaitx sil2100 bdmurray doko waveform mwhudson infinity juliank
<juliank> I lose!
<bdmurray> vorlon: ?
<doko> I#d see it as a win
<vorlon> oh noes
<vorlon> * python3-defaults transition
<vorlon> * short week, off tomorrow
<vorlon> (done)
<bdmurray> rbalint:
<rbalint> * uploads via Debian: shadow 4.8.1
<rbalint> * merges: shadow, systemd
<rbalint> * upstreamed a few systemd fixes to Debian
<rbalint> * partner work
<rbalint> * proposed migration: breezy, breezy-debian, tryton-modules-stock
<rbalint> * testing sytemd 245~rc1 in bileto
<rbalint> (done)
<rbalint> y
<xnox> Lots of proposed migrations work - made boost/boost-defaults/gnu-radio/octave to become candidates
<xnox> Arm64 - create self-signed model & started uc20 gadget, which then fails to create image due to safeguard in snap prepare-image, reported to snapd team
<xnox> Unbroke daily UC20 images as published on cdimage, they are now actually usable to boot/install/run, unencrypted, using edge channel model
<xnox> Ideally need multi-channel builds & publication
<xnox> Helping with late loading of intel-microcode https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/intel-microcode/+bug/1862938
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1862938 in intel-microcode (Ubuntu Eoan) "Enable late loading of microcode by default" [Undecided,New]
<xnox> Working with mwhudson on subiquity luks / dasd support
<xnox> Working with jfh on ssh-into subiquity installer
<xnox> done
<bdmurray> tdaitx:
<bdmurray> how about sil2100
<sil2100> o/
<sil2100> - 18.04.4:
<sil2100>   * Finally released!
<sil2100>   * Updated the release process doc
<sil2100>   * Started a retrospective/feedback thread
<sil2100> - Updated netplan.io FAQ
<sil2100> - Dived into netplan.io code to understand match-making better
<sil2100> - Started spinning uc16 refreshed images
<sil2100> - Sponsored some u-boot IMX6 changes for the HWE team
<sil2100> - Interviews
<sil2100> (done)
<rbalint> \o/: 18.04.4
<bdmurray> modified u-r-u's release-upgrades Prompt to lts for Focal
<bdmurray> added a source package hook for linux 5.4 packages (LP: #1861446)
<bdmurray> core18 (18.04.4) testing with 802.11ac (LP: #1862760)
<bdmurray> reported ubuntu-image bug LP: #1862411
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1861446 in apport (Ubuntu Focal) "on focal 'ubuntu-bug linux' doesn't automatically collect kernel artifacts" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1861446
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1862760 in linux-raspi2-5.3 (Ubuntu Focal) "Unreliable 802.11ac connection on our raspi images" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1862760
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1862411 in Ubuntu Image "Make .disk/info available on Ubuntu Core" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1862411
<bdmurray> modified rls-ff-incoming report to show ð¾ bugs
<bdmurray> discovered I'd already fixed LP: #1850406
<bdmurray> emailed kernel team re /proc/sys/fs/protected_regular
<bdmurray> reviewed / merged ubuntu-manual-testcase MP re Ubuntu Studio
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1850406 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu Focal) "python3-distupgrade small misprint bug" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1850406
<bdmurray> updated 18.04.4 release notes
<bdmurray> â done
<tdaitx> sorry, late & still writing my status
<bdmurray> doko:
<doko>  - python3-defaults migrated, 3.8 is the default now
<doko>  - gdb-9.1
<doko>  - gcc cross 9/10 packages migrated
<doko>  - finished some more transitions pulled in by python3-defaults
<doko>  - fixed some component mismatches, some MIR work done
<doko>  - openjdk 11/13/14 updates
<doko> (done)
<bdmurray> waveform:
<waveform> * Bionic .4 testing and work:
<waveform> * Investigated 802.11ac wifi issues (with much help from bdmurray!); updating firmware for prioritized SRU
<waveform> * Updated release notes (pi known issues) for .4
<waveform> * Worked on SRU of LP: #1311056
<waveform> * Worked on pictl a bit more
<waveform> * Working on uc20 boot script
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1311056 in python-apt (Ubuntu Eoan) "[SRU] apt-add-repository adds duplicate commented/disabled source lines" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1311056
<waveform> (done)
<xnox> waveform:  i think we need to sync up on uc20 boot scripts, no?
 * juliank goes
<juliank> * shen-, um shimanigans:
<juliank> - figured out how to do shim netboot testing, wrote a manual test script. need to automate this and turn it into an autopkgtest.
<juliank> - shim mokmanager testing
<juliank> - messed up first round of SRUs of shim-signed, starting new round
<juliank> * setup some dev environment for the oem meta package stuff
<juliank> * reviewed and merged python-apt merge requests
<juliank> * some minor initial thoughts/work in apt on pin-by-origin for rbalint's unattended-upgrade plans
<juliank> (done)
<bdmurray> tdaitx: ready?
<waveform> xnox, at some point yes - I'm mostly just refreshing the work I did ages ago on merging the core and classic boot scripts (in light of the recent merge of their gadget trees)
<xnox> ok
<tdaitx> Sohrt week: out friday and monday
<tdaitx> * apport: fixed autopkgtests, going for review today
<tdaitx> * tracking bileto code using openjdk 11 build
<tdaitx> (done)
<bdmurray> #topic Release incoming bugs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: Release incoming bugs
<bdmurray> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-ff-incoming-bug-tasks.html
<bdmurray> bug 1862430
<ubottu> bug 1862430 in gnupg2 (Ubuntu) "gpg in eoan doesn't find my private keys" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1862430
<xnox> bdmurray:  i'll take it
<bdmurray> thanks
<bdmurray> bug 1862503
<ubottu> bug 1862503 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Installer crashed" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1862503
<bdmurray> I think that needs some more investigation
<bdmurray> Can somebody look into it
<bdmurray> bug 1862846 is already targetted so can be skipped
<ubottu> bug 1862846 in curtin (Ubuntu Focal) "Crash and failure installing focal" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1862846
<bdmurray> bug 1862943
<ubottu> bug 1862943 in yade (Ubuntu) "failing autopkgtests with new boost1.71" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1862943
<bdmurray> xnox why is that tagged?
<bdmurray> are you trying to flag somebody on the release team?
<xnox> bdmurray:  these tests were ignored to get boost1.71 to migrate
<xnox> bdmurray:  but we should fix the three autopkgtest regressions highlighted
<xnox> bdmurray:  and ideally not me
<bdmurray> I'm just trying to understand your intent with the tag. Do you want a card created for this work?
<xnox> yes
<bdmurray> got it
<xnox> or like three cards, one for each of the autopkgtest regressions
<xnox> bdmurray:  although maybe they are all fixed now
<xnox> cause i see yade as green!
<xnox> on arm64
<xnox> http://autopkgtest.ubuntu.com/packages/yade/focal/arm64
<bdmurray> bug 1863015 is already targetted ...
<ubottu> bug 1863015 in efibootmgr (Ubuntu Focal) "efibootmgr --remove-dups does not work" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1863015
<doko> I gave it back
<doko> yade
<rbalint> xnox, we can create the cards in Done :-)
<xnox> oooh, ok
<xnox> bdmurray:  please card it yes.
<xnox> the bug
<bdmurray> bug 1826213 has been around a bit
<ubottu> bug 1826213 in update-manager (Ubuntu) "/usr/bin/update-manager:AttributeError:/usr/bin/update-manager@118:start_update:start_available:refresh_cache:update" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1826213
<bdmurray> I think we should take that too
<bdmurray> The error tracker shows a lot of incidents of it
<bdmurray> So I'll card that
<bdmurray> there's nothing new in rls-ee-incoming
<juliank> woohoo
<bdmurray> #topic Team proposed-migration report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: Team proposed-migration report
<bdmurray> vorlon:
<vorlon> [LINK] https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/focal/update_excuses_by_team.html#foundations-bugs
<vorlon> python3-defaults is done \o/
<vorlon> and then there's libyam-libyaml-perl + libyaml-perl which sat for a week and I just went to go see who was supposed to find those and it's me
<vorlon> oops
<vorlon> so I'll do those today
<vorlon> rbalint: can you take gmp?
<vorlon> boost-defaults is xnox
<rbalint> vorlon, sure
<vorlon> rbalint: ta
<rbalint> let's bring the gmp
<vorlon> juliank: can you take pyserial?
<juliank> don't really wnat to go digging on armhf right now
<vorlon> well
<vorlon> someone has to
<vorlon> or at least retry the failure
<waveform> I can take that
<vorlon> ok, pyserial to waveform
<waveform> (familiar enough with pyserial)
<vorlon> debhelper: bdmurray?
<bdmurray> okay
<vorlon> libsereal-decoder-perl: tdaitx?
<tdaitx> vorlon: I will take it
<vorlon> thanks
<vorlon> ubuntu-release-upgrader
<vorlon> juliank: ^^ that's also armhf and also probably just needs a retest with right triggers, can you take this one?
<juliank> yes
<vorlon> sqlite3 has a blocking bug?
<vorlon> ah xnox
<xnox> that's fixed!
<vorlon> ok, xnox to follow through
<vorlon> libextutils-pkgconfig-perl / pkg-config
<vorlon> sil2100: ^^ ?
<sil2100> Ok, can take that one o/
<vorlon> glib2.0 vs xorg-server, I'll take
<vorlon> libre-engine-re2-perl, I'll take
<vorlon> openjdk-8/armhf blocking xorg: tdaitx ?
<tdaitx> vorlon: yeah, will look into it, I expected it to be blacklisted or hinted
<vorlon> pango1.0: I'll take
<vorlon> util-linux: rbalint
<rbalint> vorlon, ok
<vorlon> libcgi-pm-perl: juliank?
<vorlon> libdbi-perl: it's i386, I'll take that one too :P
<doko> I'd like not to take anything now, but working on icu instead
<vorlon> libcap2: sil2100?
<vorlon> pycurl: bdmurray?
<vorlon> and shadow: waveform?
<vorlon> (and then we're done)
<bdmurray> pycurl okay
<sil2100> vorlon: ok!
<rbalint> shadow is fixed in mysql
<sil2100> Taking cappy
<vorlon> rbalint: work with waveform to get it done then? :)
<xnox> ${devlibs:Depends} in debian/control is news to me
<vorlon> (re-triggered etc)
<waveform> sure
<juliank> FWIW, I'm out tomorrow, so I only have ~4 days until next meeting
<bdmurray> are we on to AOB?
<juliank> no
<vorlon> I think we're done with this topic
<bdmurray> #topic AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: AOB
<bdmurray> Monday is a US holiday but I'm swapping it for Tuesday
 * sil2100 is out tomorrow as well
<doko> outstanding transitions before the feature freeze ...
<vorlon> yeah I'll be out tomorrow + Monday
<xnox>  ..... icu
<xnox> ..... glibc
<xnox> ..... new arch
<doko> I know that I didn't do any merges this cycle ...
<doko> ruby2.7
<juliank> I need to do an APT ABI break before-ish feature freeze
<juliank> I think I need to wait until boost transition is done or something, because aptitude blocks otherwise
<doko> should we collect that in a central place? with the remaining time there will be conflicts/entanglements
<xnox> juliank:  https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/aptitude/0.8.12-1ubuntu2 please fix that first
<juliank> this is fun
<juliank> C++ play time!
<vorlon> doko: central place: yes
<vorlon> doko: do you have anything else for the list?
<vorlon> then I think the release team should post about it
<vorlon> (maybe sil2100 or myself)
<xnox> llvm10 by default
<xnox> i want to push mercurial to be python3
<xnox> but that's optional
<vorlon> and doesn't need managed as a transition
<rbalint> reviewing all foundation merges
<xnox> TOPIC: merges.ubuntu.com we should review them all
<xnox> prior to FF
<vorlon> +1
<doko> not just by person, but for the whole team
<bdmurray> including former members
<vorlon> `grep-merges foundations-bugs`
<doko> xnox: mercurial could be done as a SRU as well
<xnox> https://merges.ubuntu.com/main.html?showProposed=true&showMergeNeeded=true
<doko> from my point of view
<xnox> https://merges.ubuntu.com/universe.html?showProposed=true&showMergeNeeded=true
 * juliank added an apt transition to ben planned config
<xnox> we should check our KPIs too?
<bdmurray> anything else?
<bdmurray> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Feb 13 16:55:17 2020 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2020/ubuntu-meeting.2020-02-13-16.01.moin.txt
<rbalint> o/
