#ubuntu-mobile 2007-12-17
<dholbach> good morning
<glory> test my pig
<haleu> hello everybody ---- how real is this movie run ubuntulinux on p990i
<mjg59> Not real
<haleu> ok
<haleu> but can i install some linux on my p990i?
<Mithrandir> haleu: we don't know; you can't run Ubuntu on it.
<haleu> okey
<suihkulokki> haleu: you will have to start by porting linux kernel for it
<haleu> i have read ... my p990i have a arm9 cpu 
#ubuntu-mobile 2007-12-18
<dholbach> good morning
<ryanhunt> It's quiet in here.
<ryanhunt> is there a time/date when meetings normally happen in here?
<ian_brasil> ryanhunt: NEXT MEETING: Dec 20, 17:00 UTC
<ryanhunt> cheers, thanks
<ian_brasil> from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded
<ryanhunt> ah
 * ryanhunt blushes
<ryanhunt> is this the central point for all meetings?
<ryanhunt> I'm guessing looking at the meeting history, they happen every week
<ian_brasil> have a look at this too https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded/ReportingPage
<ryanhunt> ok thanks
<theseinfeld> is there anybody here experiencing problem with the upstart?
<theseinfeld> particularly the /etc/event.d/session
<theseinfeld> if i start initctl start session i get : .... init: session respawning too fast: stopped
<theseinfeld> now
<theseinfeld> I digged deeper in the initctl start session
<theseinfeld> i edited the /etc/event.d/session and added console output
<theseinfeld> now I get: X: user not authorized to run the X server, aborting
<theseinfeld> any idea?
<inuka> ping Bryce
#ubuntu-mobile 2007-12-19
<dholbach> good morning
<Mithrandir> StevenK: did you get anywhere with the EINVAL from mount when trying to mount squashfs?
<StevenK> Mithrandir: Yup
<StevenK> Mithrandir: New mksquashfs using LZMA, and a kernel that didn't support it
<StevenK> Mithrandir: See my mail to mobile
<Mithrandir> StevenK: d'oh, ok thanks.  That's ever so slightly unfortunate.
<StevenK> Mithrandir: Indeed.
<StevenK> Mithrandir: I wish the news were different
<Mithrandir> you mailed the list and said you stumbled on an unionfs bug?
<StevenK> Right. I sent photos of the "kernel BUG" message to Amit and he said, "Argh! unionfs!"
<Mithrandir> and that was with .24?
<StevenK> That was with the kernel you built
<Mithrandir> does the kernel even support lzma yet?
<mjg59> No
<mjg59> There's an external patch for it
<StevenK> squashfs 3.3 says it does, and pkl merged it in
<mjg59> Orly? Excellent.
<lool> StevenK: It seems you can pass -nolzma to newer mksquashfs for now  :-/
<mjg59> If we use that for the livecd, we potentially get win
<StevenK> lool: Right. I hacked m-i-c to do so
<StevenK> mjg59: LZMA looks to be the default for squashfs-tools 3.3, so let's see what Alpha2 gives us
<StevenK> Mithrandir: I was going to keep pitti happy and look at the promotion problems next
<Mithrandir> StevenK: makes sense.  I'd liked us to have something we could give intel to start porting their graphics driver on, but it doesn't look too good then. :-/
<StevenK> Mithrandir: I discovered when I maintained ALSA that I'm not smart enough to work on the kernel
<amitk_> StevenK: Did pkl confirm that he merged LZMA support into LUM?
<StevenK> He didn't confirm, but I read the changelog of 3.3, and that's what was pulled into l-u-m
<amitk_> StevenK: and you used the updated LUM too, right?
<amitk_> StevenK: ^^^
<StevenK> I used 2.2
<StevenK> Mithrandir: What do you think about the latest e-mail on u-m?
<Mithrandir> the one about UME X startup?  Just replied.
<StevenK> Kay
<smagoun> Is there a good way to add a diversion (via dpkg-divert) to a package that's already installed? The moblin guys and I have both run into problems because diversions are only supposed to happen on install, not upgrade.
<smagoun> For example: A is installed. I want to add a file F to A'. F is already installed as package B. I want users upgrading from A to A' to get the the A' version of F.
<smagoun> Mithrandir: lool StevenK  ^^^^^
<lool> smagoun: You should be able to call dpkg-divert during upgrade in the very same way
<lool> Make sure you test properly when to call it and think of all cases where you should remove it
<lool> smagoun: How is your current problematic code looking like?
<smagoun> lool: That's what I hoped, but this debian policy manual indicates I shouldn't check for upgrade: http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ap-pkg-diversions.html
<lool> smagoun: Oh right, I understand the limitation now
<smagoun> lool: What I'm interested in right now is moblin's xf86-video-psb driver, which blindly copies a library on top of another one becuase diversion doesn't work in the upgrade case: http://moblin.org/repos/projects/xf86-video-psb.git/
<lool> smagoun: What the policy page says is that you should only call dpkg-divert once
<lool> smagoun: If you simply call dpkg-divert without checking for $1 = install, it will run for upgrade, and other cases
<smagoun> lool: right. So presumably I could check to see if the diversion's already been done by dpkg-diver --list?
<lool> smagoun: The best thing to do is this indeed
<lool> I'm checking whether I can hand a good example
<smagoun> Ok, I think I understand. Since I'm only ever installing or upgrading that particular package version once, it's ok to divert in both the install and upgrade cases and I can skip the '$1 = install'
<lool> smagoun: But basically your preinst should be something among the lines of: if install or upgrade and diversion_not_installed; then divert; fi
<lool> if ( install or upgrade ) and diversion_not_installed
<lool> Interestingly, I can only find examples contradicting policy :)
<lool> if [ "$1" = install ] || [ "$1" = upgrade ]
<lool> then
<lool>     dpkg-divert --add --package perl-doc --rename \
<lool>         --divert /usr/bin/perldoc.stub /usr/bin/perldoc
<smagoun> lool: thanks. I'll try that approach.
<Mithrandir> StevenK: if you're still awake, prod me, I have a kernel I'd like you to try on your CB.
<lool> How does one rebuild the amd64 kernel image?
<lool> (From the git tree)
<lool> StevenK: You had the command line for lpia?  O:-)
<Mithrandir> lool: debuild -e CONCURRENCY_LEVEL=13 -e PATH=/usr/lib/ccache:$PATH -uc -us -B is what I used
<lool> Thanks!
<Mithrandir> that concurrency level was fine with an 8 core machine, adjust as appropriate for your setup
#ubuntu-mobile 2007-12-20
<jimmy_> if you look at the debian/rules file, you'll see a bunch of default parameters, try taking out         --with-system-nspr \
<jbraddoc> So after reading about this... The main idea for the project is internet tablets, correct?
<jbraddoc> What about computers in cars?
<dholbach> good morning
<raji> asac, you there?
<raji> asac, I am looking for code in nm applet source where it pops Network Settings dialog when clicked on 'Manual Configuration', I searched through network  manager applet code but no luck, Where can I find it?  Could you show some light on this, I really need it urgently. thanks
<asac> raji: manual configuration isn't network-manager ... it just runs gnome-network-admin
<raji> asac, But 'manual configuration' appears as an option when clicked on nm applet icon, should I look for it in gnome-network-admin package?
<asac> raji: what do you want to achieve?
<asac> raji: look in ./debian/patches/03_manual_config_available_when_connected.patch to get a point to start
<asac> raji: the code for the static configuration is in debian/patches/01_static_network-admin.patch
<raji> asac, we want to remove the option 'Manual Configuration' from the Nm applet options, 
<asac> yeah ... then drop both patches
<patm> asac, hi
<asac> patm: morning
<asac> :)
<patm> asac, how is it going?
<asac> more or less good
<asac> currently doing the package
<patm> asac, great
<asac> you already moved?
<patm> not until after the new year
<asac> ah ok ... but you are @home now too, right?
<patm> at the office
<raji> asac, I didnt understand how 'Manual Configuration' is removed by dropping (not applying ) those two patches
<asac> raji: well ..  its not an upstream feature. the patch 01_... introduces the menu entry. so dropping it will remove it as well
<asac> and since 03_ is a patch that fixes issues with 01_ you need to remove it as well
<asac> makes sense?
<raji> asac, yes, thanks
<asac> patm: what plugins do install for the demo?
<davidm> About to start the weekly meeting
<davidm> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 17:00. The chair is davidm.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<davidm> Good day, are we ready to start?
<davidm> amitk_, are you around?
<davidm> lool, are you around?
<smagoun> davidm: this might be a short meeting :)
<davidm> I think so, I know that lool is on holiday and amit is out of sync by 12+ hours so...
<davidm> smagoun, did you all get the CB to boot?
<smagoun> no, I didn't. A couple other guys took a brief look too, still no luck
<smagoun> we're hunting around for a new power supply, we figure it can't hurt to try a new one
<davidm> OK a new MB was shipped from Intel with C0 so it's a non issue perhaps.  I'll transship it as soon as it arrives.
<davidm> Actually given the holiday perhaps I should ship it to someones house.
<davidm> It's a regular ATX style powersupply so should not be hard to test
<davidm> Do we have anything to talk about?  The opens either are for people that are not here or related to the CB which is not running yet.
<smagoun> davidm: just talked to patm, you can ship it to his house. He said he'll coordinate with you
<davidm> Works
<davidm> hmmm, anyone?  if not this is indeed going to be a VERY short meeting.
<smagoun> I don't think we (mbu) have anything for the meeting
<kyleN> deck the halls...
<davidm> Well, as the saying goes ---- going once................
<davidm> I'll just carry over items that make sense for the first week in Jan, I'm asking Tollef to run the meeting since I'll still be on holiday.
<davidm> going twice........
<kyleN> WAIT!
<kyleN> (kidding...)
<davidm> kyleN, yes?
<davidm> AH
<kyleN> season's greetings all
<davidm> OK, gone
<davidm> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 17:12.
<patm> asac, ping
#ubuntu-mobile 2007-12-21
<l_r> hello
<l_r> i wonder whether it actually exists a smartphone better than the n95
<l_r> i read some good reports about the htc touch cruise
<mjg59> l_r: This channel is for discussion of Ubuntu on mobile devices, currently limited to Intel-based platforms
<mjg59> I'm afraid it's not for discussion of mobile phones
<l_r> mjg59, ok sorry. is there any phone based on ubuntu-mobile?
<mjg59> Not currently, no
<l_r> ok
<mjg59> In the future, who knows? :)
<StevenK> mjg59: You're up late.
<l_r> i hope, although i think not in the foreseable future
<l_r> by 2010 or 2011 :)
<mjg59> StevenK: 1AM?
<mjg59> StevenK: Thesis is finished and printed, I just need to hand it in tomorrow
<StevenK> mjg59: Woooot!
<mjg59> So some celebratory drinking tonight
<StevenK> mjg59: Congrats are in order.
<mjg59> eh. They can wait until I actually pass :)
<StevenK> mjg59: Well, sure. But getting the thing finished is an achievement.
<StevenK> mjg59: Do you have to defend it?
<mjg59> Yeah, some time early next year
<dholbach> good morning
<GrueMaster> hey patm.  Tobin here.
<patm> GrueMaster, hey
<patm> GrueMaster, did you see my note about the image?
<GrueMaster> Already downloaded.  I am about to commit it to a drive.
<patm> GrueMaster, great appreciate it
<GrueMaster> I was playing around with cheese.  I see what you mean on the cpu performance.  It looks like it is using OGG theora as the video encoder.  This "may" change, once helix stabilizes (I have no idea as to the road map).
<patm> you are correct
<GrueMaster> Ok, 1220 image is booting up.  Seems ok on C0.  What rev do you have?
<patm> the cb should be B0, the other unit is B1
<patm> the failure is on B1
<patm> I think
<GrueMaster> ok, give me a few minutes to try different boards here.
<bspencer> asac, are you gone on holiday?
<GrueMaster> patm:  Ok, I have not been able to find a working B0 board here, but I did boot it up on B1.  Booted to gui menu no problem.
<patm> GrueMaster, thanks
<patm> GrueMaster, can you confirm it is the new drivers via xvinfo?
<GrueMaster> xvinfo really doesn't have much useful information.  But you can grep for 32L in /var/log/Xorg.0.log.
<patm> GrueMaster, is xvinfo reports anything then we know we have the new stuff running
<patm> GrueMaster, what would cause the image to fail, video memory allocation?
<GrueMaster> well, in that case, ok.  I verified that xvinfo is able to run and that fgrep 32L /var/log/Xorg.0.log reports 2.0.0.32L.0004 (which is the correct version).
<patm> great
<patm> any other ideas?
<GrueMaster> Not sure.  If X fails, I usually reboot with a live usb image and edit /etc/event.d/session to comment out respawn.  Then I can boot and get more information when X crashes.
<GrueMaster> Try this, and see what shows up in Xorg.0.log
<patm> We tired that with the install image booting into single user, we should try it with the usb image
<GrueMaster> Doesn't matter which way you boot, just so long as you can edit out the respawn.  It has a nasty side effect of thrashing the harddrive.
<GrueMaster> Personally, I think it should be commented out during development anyways.  If X crashes, there is usually a reason for it.
<patm> GrueMaster, good point, we're trying again
<patm> GrueMaster, got an update
<GrueMaster> k
<patm> psbdriver seg faults after pipe b enabled
<GrueMaster> hmmm.
<patm> could the configuration set up by the bios have any effect?
<patm> that is one difference
<GrueMaster> Quick refresh.  Is this a CB or ODM system?
<patm> ODM
<patm> BIOS is different
<GrueMaster> It could be their bios.  I know it's different.  I think I have a version I can try here on a CB.
<patm> GrueMaster, do any of your test systems use an LCD
<patm> thats another bug difference?
<GrueMaster> we have both
<patm> good
<GrueMaster> Which bios rev is it?
<patm> 16
<GrueMaster> Hmm.  Seems rather old.  There must be another rev number somewhere.  I have a base bios that they get from our bios engineers.  The latest I have is 5A.
<patm> hang on
<patm> they refer to it as 016B, where B is memory size related
<patm> its Phoenix
<GrueMaster> I'll try the Phoenix rev I have.  It should be fairly similar.
<GrueMaster> no luck on the bios.  Must be an older rev.  I'll check to see if I have a bios that matches this system when I get back from Lunch.
<GrueMaster> patm:  There?
<GrueMaster> I found a working bios.  I feel kind of sheepish, I was using a bios specific to the OEM platform that you have, not the CB (oops).
<patm> GrueMaster, aha
<GrueMaster> And boot just failed.  Initial reaction:  bios issue.
<patm> interesting
<patm> now the question is whats the bios doing wrong...
<patm> this helps a lot
<GrueMaster> Yes, it does.
<GrueMaster> Let me see who is still around.  Most people have left for holiday vacations.
<patm> ok thanks
<patm> GrueMaster, if you learn anything please send an email
<GrueMaster> will do.
#ubuntu-mobile 2007-12-22
<asac> bspencer: more or less ... anything important, please send a mail
#ubuntu-mobile 2008-12-15
<snookie_> I'm trying to checkout a working ubuntu-mobile repository, can anyone help me out?
<snookie_> just looking for the correct bzr url
<snookie_> Just a little new to this
<theseinfeld> Howdy ho...
<theseinfeld> Any updates from the UDS and the lpia support?
<theseinfeld> lool ?
<theseinfeld> ogra ? Now that the UDS is over, is Ubuntu still going to support the lpia in the architectures or we get back to only i386?
<theseinfeld> death space here...
<XsnicksX> hello
<XsnicksX> i need some helpplease
<XsnicksX> i recently bought an internet tablet nokia n810
<XsnicksX> i would like to install ubuntu mobile on it
<XsnicksX> is it possible on this nokia?
<Hobbsee> so, are there any restricted codecs that we *don't* want on armel?
<thebishop> hello, does the mobile team manager post here?
#ubuntu-mobile 2008-12-16
<NCommander> StevenK, what was the name of the spec that we talked about doing cross-installations of Ubuntu? (I'm trying to find it ATM)
<StevenK> Huh? Cross-installations?
<NCommander> The spec where you can install an ARM system from a x86/amd64 host
<NCommander> Using an ISO of the CD
<StevenK> That so wasn't it
<NCommander> Well, yes, that's why I'm trying to find it to refresh my memory :-P
<StevenK> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/specs/OfflineInstaller
<NCommander> Ah, that's it
<NCommander> Anyway, I took a peek at how emdebian handles package installation/removal
 * StevenK goes for lunch
<NCommander> cya
<ogra> OH !!!
<ogra> http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=NjkyNw
<thebishop> has this Ubuntu Mobile developer position been filled? http://webapps.ubuntu.com/employment/canonical_UMD
<ogra> thebishop, filled positions get removed from the page :)
<thebishop> ah, nice
<thebishop> I don't have ARM experience, but i have done some hacking on PSP (MIPS), and PS3 (Cell), plus Ubuntu has been my primary development platform since the first release
<lool> asac: Do you have the xulrunner-1.9 1.9.0.5 tarball already?
<asac> lool: currently copying to chinstrap:~asac/1.8.1.19/ffox/
<asac> but its not yet out ;)
<lool> asac: Oh ok; I'll wait til it's public
<asac> lool: will you update the packaging branch? e.g. merge from .hardy?
<asac> let me do that for you
<lool> I did already
<asac> lool: great. seeing that. well done!
<asac> lool: a typo in the USN number :/
<asac> lool: can you redo the merge when i uncommit or should i commit on top and "re-release"?
<asac> lool: pong ;)
<asac> err ping!
<asac> lool: ok committed on top and RE-RELEASED ;)
<lool> asac: Sorry was afk for dinner and bath
<lool> asac: I get no new rev here; I guess you didn't push yet
<asac> lool: hmm i have a bind ... let me check
<asac> lool: are you using lp:~... url for merging? or http?
<asac> lool: oh sorry. that was firefox ;)
<asac> so not for you
<asac> lool: check that USN is 690
<asac> -1
<bhundven> I guess I am still a little confused by all of the recent name changes. Getting a G1U CMXP, this would be mid or umpc?
<bhundven> s/G1U/Q1U/
<zackr> hey, so what's the magic to compile a new kernel on ubuntu mobile? fakeroot make-kpkg --initrd kernel_image kernel_headers exits with debian/ruleset/misc/checks.mk:36 "Error. I do not know where the kernel image goes to [kimagedest undefined] ..."
<lool> asac: ssh
<lool> asac: I thought you meant the mobile branch, but you meant yours
<lool> hmm no
<bhundven> ah... mid
<lool> asac: USN is correct in all cases
<lool> zackr: I'd check the ubuntu kernel wiki on the ubuntu wiki
<zackr> lool: yea, i haven't seen anything there
<lool> http://www.google.fr/search?q=ubuntu+build+custom+kernel&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=com.ubuntu:fr:unofficial&client=firefox-a
<lool> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Kernel/Compile
<zackr> yes, that doesn't answer any of the questions. i don't know what arch/subarch combination mid-8.04.1-menlow uses and randomly trying them out is not optimal
<lool> Oh I thought you didn't find the wiki; nm
<lool> zackr: You can get the config file from the lpia kernel or the git repo
<lool> We use the standard hardy kernel
<lool> But for the lpia arch
<NCommander> hey all
<zackr> lool: yea, the config isn't the problem, i copied it over. it's the make-kpkg that just refuses to run with the defaults. i could compile it all by hand and then change the grub also by hand, but obviously one of the reason for running a distro on those things is not have to do that =) 
<lool> zackr: TBH I found make-kpkg a horrible tool and regret having looked at it in the past
<lool> It's hard to debug, complex and error prone  :-/
<lool> zackr: You could take the kernel source package and build it like a regular debian package though
<zackr> i need 2.6.28. i need gem and pat patches in
<zackr> i'll probably just compile it all by hand
<lool> We have 2.6.28 in jaunty
<lool> But not for lpia
<lool> ogra: http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.handhelds.moblin.devel/1012
<lool> 10 MB tarball
<lool> The fact that there are separate tarballs for various distros kind of worries me
<lool> ogra: Ok, same binary only crap  :-(
#ubuntu-mobile 2008-12-17
<lool> asac: Could you add a .bzr-builddeb/default.conf in xulrunner-1.9 branches?
<lool> asac: With [BUILDDEB] on the first line and merge = True on the second
<lool> asac: Just FYI:
<lool> W: xulrunner-1.9 source: build-depends-on-1-revision build-depends: binutils (>= 2.17-1) [mips mipsel]
<lool> Just add a ~ to that rev if you really need that rev
<lool> (allowing backports to satisfy the bdep)
<lool> asac: Pushing the package to the ubuntu-mobile ppa; thanks!
<asac> lool: @default.conf ... we can add just Merge = true there ... just didnt see much use as i dont have a export-upstream branch for those
<asac> lool: i assume that 2.17-1 is quiet old and shouldnt really make backports hard, but ok.
<lool> asac: It's also needed when you use the tarball; e.g. "bzr bd -e" only gives me a tree with debian/, not mozilla/
<lool> asac: I guess you're copying the debian dir manually when building?
<lool> asac: Concerning binutils, it's only needed for dapper; feel free to drop it if you don't care :-)
<lool> OpenGL support in vbox http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=NjkzOA we might have a way to use vms for testing of clutter based apps in some future time
<asac> lool: no ... we are just using bzr bd --merge .... which is the natural way of doing it when looking at bzr help bd ;)
<lool> asac: Crap, I *looked* for the option, and skipped it
<asac> lool: heh ... apparently you are new to bzr bd ;)
<lool> asac: I found it really weird that I couldn't merge on the command line, but I can blah
<lool> asac: Well I'm not using it regularly; usually the bzr packages I touch are completely in bzr, so a simple debuild works
<lool> -i -I of course
<asac> lool: yeah ... i never do that even for full source branches .... though bzr clean-tree is good ... but its handy to not use it ... you can change things without committing and still test without cluttering everything
<asac> also i can build on fast disk ;)
<asac> e.g. build-dir=/some/fastbuilddir
<lool> Nice
<lool> asac: Q: firefox seems to require some particular xulrunner version range
<lool> Could not find compatible GRE between version 1.9.0.1 and 1.9.0.*.
<lool> asac: But the deps only enforce the lower bound
<lool> I'm doing a jaunty dist-upgrade, and it's been 20 minutes that firefox is broken during the upgrade with this message; I wonder why the dep isn't < 1.9.1 as well?
<lool> asac: Absolutely not a critical use case, but I was just wondering :)
<asac> lool: well ... xulrunner-1.9 is defined to be 1.9.0.* ;)
<asac> 1.9.1 is xulrunner-1.9.1
<lool> Oh then I wonder why it broke
<lool> I still have xulrunner-1.9 installed
<asac> have to run to catch my train ... will try to be on there with 3g
<asac> sorry
<lool> NP
<lool> asac: Working again now; I wonder what broke it
<asac> lool: not sure ... what it is looking for is the /etc/gre.d/ file
<asac> lool: maybe conffiles get installed at a later stage?
<lool> asac: Could be
<asac> lool: can you paste the files you have in that dir=
<asac> ?
<lool> asac: I have 1.9.0.4.system.conf and 1.9.0.5.system.conf
<lool> They look almost identical, with s/1.9.0.4/1.9.0.5
<lool> There's no /usr/lib/xulrunner-1.9.0.4 though
<lool> I suspect a rm_conffile() is missing
<asac> lool: yes we fix that ... i wondered if that fix has landed though causing the transitional issues
<asac> but apparently it didnt (as you still have 1.9.0.4)
<asac> doesnt hurt to have old stuff lying around though ... exscept a bit slower startup
<lool> asac: Might be interesting to move it to /usr and allow /etc to override that
<lool> Would make the package work at unpack
<asac> lool: if thats really the case, yes. i thought about also adding a /usr/share/gre.d/ location or something
<asac> lool: you already can override that in $HOME/.gre.conf
<asac> or was it $HOME/.gre.d/ ... not clue ;)
<asac> so order would be: look in $HOME/.gre.d/ , /etc/gre.d/, /usr/share/gre.d/
<asac> any better directory?
<lool> No idea :-)
<thebishop> Are any managers here.  I had some questions about the Mobile developer position on Canonical.com
<bizkut> vista nga ubuntu nih jenis supo keto
<cgregan> brianchid.....my poor IRC client is having problems keeping track of all your aliases!
<brianchid> tab is your friend cgregan
<cgregan> ï»¿brianchid: Nah..I prefer diet coke
<brianchid> cgregan: touche
<cgregan> ï»¿brianchid: New greasemonkey script for Payson testing is up
<brianchid> cgregan: alright thank you
<crevette> hello
<cjwatson> FYI I'm fixing the apex FTBFS
 * ogra points to #ubuntu-arm :)
<cjwatson> oh, doh
<ogra> soo, looks like the umpc jaunty imge works 
<NCommander> that's good news
<ogra> though i'm testing on the jax10 ... cant tell if touchpad is fine 
<ogra> but its booting and thats all that counts for now 
<playya> ogra, i tested ubiquity-gtk on my eee and it is unusable. the window is 700x600 an my screen is 800x480 -> no next button visible
<ogra> yeah
<ogra> will get better in jaunty ... we had a session on that
<playya> ok.
<playya> i thought about writing a hildonized one
<playya> with fullscreen
<ogra> well, we dropped that intention
<ogra> but will fix up the existing gtk one to fit on 800x480
<playya> ok
<playya> and in jaunty contrain_y is set to false by default?
<NCommander> ogra, well, it shouldn't be insanely difficult to cut ubiquity down to size
<ogra> we wont have the umpc image in jaunty
<ogra> we'll turn that into a netbook one
<playya> that causes some undefined behaviours
<ogra> which means no compiz
<ogra> since it uses the netbook launcher
<ogra> which in turn is incompatible with compiz
<playya> and what about placing the panels onto the bottom and right
<ogra> the netbook image ill have the UNR desktop
<ogra> only one top panel
<playya> i thought about this an touchscreen devices. if you want to click on sth you have your arm in front of the screen
<ogra> yeah, but apparenly touchscreen usage isnt the focus for jaunty ... we'll just make the UNR image 
<ogra> there will be touchscreen centric changes to the UNR desktop at some point
<ogra> which we then will use 
<ogra> the touchscreen centric desktop as you know it from umpc wont happen this time
<playya> what was UNR again?
<ogra> ubuntu netbook remix
<playya> ah ok
<NCommander> so then what was umpc specifically?
<ogra> it was for touchscreen devices with bigger screens
 * playya needs a new project if there is no hildon installer
#ubuntu-mobile 2008-12-18
<lool> ogra: Check the email I just fwed you
<lool> this is so going to rock
<NCommander> morning lool 
<lool> hey
<NCommander> how goes it?
<lool> Almost over my "flu" or whatever it was that looked like a flu
<NCommander> Lucky
<lool> what about you?
<NCommander> I'm thinking I'm coming down with it now -_-;
<lool> Ah sorry about that
<NCommander> oh well
<lool> davidm and cgregan had it much earlier though, hopefully you didn't get it from me
<NCommander> Anyway
<NCommander> kde4bindings builds
<NCommander> <g>
<NCommander> Once we're out of freeze KDE is fixed I hope
<theseinfeld> NCommander kde4bindings builds where? Also in lpia?
<theseinfeld> intrepid?
<NCommander> jaunty
<theseinfeld> any back-port?
<theseinfeld> actually, is it so that we still keep lpia?
<NCommander> lpia has its own issues
<NCommander> kde4bindings was badly broken on ARM
<theseinfeld> so, it doesn't build for armel, but for everything else
<theseinfeld> the jaunty
<theseinfeld> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/jaunty/+source/kde4bindings/4:4.1.85-0ubuntu1
<persia> theseinfeld, It's still waiting.
 * persia encourages ARM discussions to move to #ubuntu-devel, #kubuntu-devel, or #ubuntu-arm depending on the level of flavour or architecture specificity
<theseinfeld> question is, can we backport it to lpia?
<theseinfeld> there are packages that don't install because of that dependency
<theseinfeld> the libplasma2 for example
<persia> It built on lpia : https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kde4bindings/4:4.1.85-0ubuntu1/+build/814841
 * theseinfeld apologizes to persia...
<theseinfeld> yes, but not on intrepid
<theseinfeld> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kde4bindings/4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid1/+build/776527
<theseinfeld> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kde4bindings/4:4.1.2-0ubuntu2/+build/742603
<theseinfeld> that is where is stops
<theseinfeld> that is also why I asked NCommander if he will backport it to intrepid
<theseinfeld> :D
<persia> Ah.  Nevermind :)
 * theseinfeld scratches his head...
<theseinfeld> Nevermind what? :D I mind if there is nothing there in intrepid...
<theseinfeld> If people do a aptitude full-upgrade and they have libplasma2 it will be quite an experience :D
<persia> "nevermind" as in "ignore my input", and yes, it ought be fixed.  FTBFS usually is SRU-worthy.
<theseinfeld> it is not working since...november... I think :d
<theseinfeld> persia, define SRU worthy in lpia :D
<NCommander> It's not that easy
<persia> theseinfeld, Same as anything else, but needs to be regression-tested also against primary architectures, as for any port.
<NCommander> lpia's mono is miserably broken, and there are a load of things that had to be fixed, such as circular build depends to get that going on jaunty :-/
<persia> NCommander, didn't the Kubuntu team basically decide to give up on lpia for intrepid?
<theseinfeld> yeah, I know... I've been talking with Hobbsee some time ago on this topic...
<NCommander> persia, I gave up, no one else decided to fix it :-)
<theseinfeld> shouldn't there be an update on Bug #289402
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 289402 in kdebase-workspace "circular build dependency between kdebase-workspace and kde4bindings, broken on lpia and hppa" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/289402
 * NCommander notes that breakage happened very late in the cycle, and it wasn't caught until just before/after final freeze
<theseinfeld> NCommander, wasn't that kde python that was causing the mess?
<NCommander> yeah
<theseinfeld> How bad will it work without it?
<theseinfeld> :D
<NCommander> We can't build it sanely
<NCommander> and it won't build without
<NCommander> I forgot how we fixed it for jaunty
<theseinfeld> LOL
<NCommander> but I'm not going to try and fix it for intrepid
<theseinfeld> can't you just backport it? like, make that package in intrepid?
 * theseinfeld is thinking: launchpad ppa copy feature?
<persia> theseinfeld, Try changing the target in the changelog and pushing to your PPA.  Might break, but might work.
<persia> worst case, you'll need to rebuild much larger chunks of stuff, which is where it gets ugly.
<theseinfeld> I have the build, like NCommander, I just forgot how I fixed it :D
<theseinfeld> I had it for lpia intrepid even...at some point
<theseinfeld> I think that that issue is that in the ports.ubuntu. lpia repo there is no more ubuntu9 for that kdebase...
<theseinfeld> the break comes between kdebase-workspace...ubuntu9 and ubuntu12
<theseinfeld> at least last time when I checked
<theseinfeld> perhaps lool, when he recovers can check this as well :D
<NCommander> theseinfeld, if you can provide debdiffs, I'd be willing to look at the possibility of getting it fixed via intrepid-updates
<ogra> lool, seen that ? http://lwn.net/Articles/311890/
<lool> ogra: Cool
<lool> ogra: I looked into cross building an initrd or initramfs from x86 for armel, and it's not easy; initramfs-tools is shell but runs commands and you can't override its root (so it uses /usr/share), yaird as a similar problem
<ogra> yeah, you'll need qemu at least
<lool> theseinfeld: hmm?
<lool> theseinfeld: I thought the circular build-dep was gone in newer kdes
<lool> ogra: But even with qemu
<lool> You need something like scratchbox to do it
<lool> Which is where it becomes ugly
<ogra> though the design of arm kernels might help us here, you might not actually need an initramfs if you have NAND
<lool> ogra: (You checked that email I forwarded you?)
<ogra> i.e. have a minimal rootfs that you can use on firstboot to generate the initramfs 
<persia> Depends on the device, and architecture doesn't matter.  I used to boot an amd64 device off nand, which then broke horribly when initramfs was introduced.
<persia> Even so, running with a compressed initrd was faster, as the read time to real memory was *much* faster than the read time to the NAND.
<ogra> persia, i dont mean to really boot without it, but if you have a rootfs.gz sitting in NAND you can mount it through a bootoption, generate a proper initramfs, reboot and voila 
<ogra> our initramfs has to boot in any case ... we shouldnt differ from the main distro ... but we migh not be able to generate it in advance
<ogra> having a rootfs.gz could be a way around that but only where you have NAND available 
<persia> Oh, right, and then store the generated initramfs back to the NAND.
<ogra> right
<ogra> lool, yes, i looked at the arm stuff, sounds cool
<persia> Just make sure that the driver for the NAND is in the initramfs: that's why I don't boot my workstation off NAND anymore.
<ogra> indeed
<ogra> persia, welcome back btw ... took you a while :)
<persia> ogra, Lots to catch up on before submitting myself to the distraction of live IRC :)
<ogra> ah
<ogra> i thought you were routed through intresting airports :)
<persia> No, I flew direct.  Turned out there were several flights on Saturday, and I caught the second after I arrived at the airport, so only had to wait about an hour.
<lool> Ah you had the flew as well
<persia> heh, well, not quite the same one :)
<ogra> heh
<NCommander> morning ogra and lool 
<lool> morning again
 * NCommander is obviously repeating himself :-)
<lool> Hmm where would I report a bug on the text which is in the cdimage build scripts
<lool> StevenK, ogra: around?
<lool> StevenK, ogra: the text on the boot menu for UMPC doesn't fit "Try Ubuntu UMPC without any c" (change)
<lool> In fact I can't file bugs about images
<lool> I guess Ubuntu
<Luciole`-> Hi everyone
<Luciole`-> Anyone here ?
<Luciole`-> Well, anyway
<Luciole`-> I do have a question about UNR
<Luciole`-> Is there any special Atom-optimization in UNR iso
<Luciole`-> or Atom-optimizations are deployed on the whole 8.10
<Luciole`-> I mean, I just installed a standard Ubuntu 8.10 on a Atom-netbook
<Luciole`-> and then installed UNR packets for the GUI
<Luciole`-> but do I miss Atom optimizations ?
<Luciole`-> Thanks if anyone reads :)
<ogra> lool, known issue
<ogra> lool, the seed isnt matching either yet, i was planning to change it on the go towards alpha3 ... bootability and a running ubiquity is all i care for for alpha2
<ogra> lool, i have a half prepared netbook seed already to adjust teh umpc image but wanted to wait until post alpha
 * ogra goes back into vacation mode
<lool> ogra: StevenK has been working on the seed as well, you two need to coordinate
<lool> I think he has a branch or something
#ubuntu-mobile 2008-12-19
<Natural_Intellig> hi all, could someone tell me plz how/where I can get an installation image for intrepid desktop with lpia arch without the restrictive interface of MID or net remix? 
<Natural_Intellig> guess not...
<lool> Natural_Intellig: These aren't autobuild
<lool> Natural_Intellig: You can build one if you like, or install manually (e.g. with debootstrap + apt-get)
<Natural_Intellig> lool: ok, was allready reading in on that, was hoping for a less time-consuming approach
<Natural_Intellig> lool: thnx anyway
#ubuntu-mobile 2008-12-20
<johnc4510> anyone around to answer a question about mobile team meetings for the Ubuntu Weekly Newsletter?
<johnc4510> This team has meetings scheduled for December 25, 2008 and January 1, 2008. Is this correct? Those are holiday dates and I wasn't sure.
#ubuntu-mobile 2008-12-21
<juliux> hi asac 
#ubuntu-mobile 2009-12-14
<murrayf> hi all
<murrayf> i'm interested in the touchscreen setup / calibration tool ogra posted about
<murrayf> ... a while ago :)
<murrayf> does the calibration tool exist?
#ubuntu-mobile 2009-12-15
<cooloney> hey, guys, I am tring to play a mepg4 video on babbage with karmic,
<cooloney> it is very slow, did i miss some video codec package?
<persia> cooloney: I hear there's some special freescale gstreamer codecs.
<cooloney> yeah, is it in our public repo?
<cooloney> lexical, asked me to test that, but i think that is too slow and very bad quality
<persia> I don't actually know if it's in karmic, as I can't run that on my armel hardware (although I'm hoping for lucid).
<persia> Let me check if the version I have has available source (came with the hardware)
<cooloney> persia: ok, got it. i will check with lexical later
<persia> cooloney: Sorry.  The source archive that was identified for my hardware doesn't apepar to have source for that.
<cooloney> persia: no problem, i appreciate your help here
<persia> cooloney: Happy to help.  Sorry I don't know more.
<persia> cooloney: If you have a BSP for your board, there might be sources with that.
<persia> Reminder, meeting in #ubuntu-meeting in 10 minutes
<asac> cooloney: when do you think we can have a kernel with the sata patch? what were your concerns withthat?
<asac> btw, shouldnt that be assigned to you rather than bryan?
<asac> cooloney: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-fsl-imx51/+bug/431963
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 431963 in linux-fsl-imx51 "io/fs errors when launching gdm on imx51 with sata" [High,Triaged]
<asac> seems like there is not much progress. maybe getting a test kernel so we can verify that would be great
<asac> let me know!!
<asac> thx
<asac> cooloney: oops ... thought this was on -arm ;)
#ubuntu-mobile 2009-12-16
<StevenLiu> Hi
<StevenLiu> is there hava a UNR src tar ?
<Lantizia> Hey will we see Ubuntu Mobile on the N900 eventually?
<Lantizia> I notice theres Ubuntu MID for McCaslin and Menlow types of devices... not sure what exactly they are
<Lantizia> hmm UMPC's
<persia> It's a bit of a complicated set of questions you've asked.
<persia> So, there's been some confusion and changes related to "Ubuntu Mobile"
<persia> So the ubuntu-mid project is mostly gone.
<Lantizia> ah :S
<persia> Some of the goals are being taken over by the lubuntu and liquid efforts.
<persia> No, it's a good thing.
<Lantizia> So LXDE on an armel compiled ubuntu on my N900 ?
<Lantizia> sounds V nice :D
<persia> The "Ubuntu MID" effort was a bunch of hacks to kinda make some hacked hildon stuff work badly.
<persia> And lots of it was also architecture-specific.
<persia> Replacing it with focused projects trying to accomplish specific UI goals, and separating that from the hardware efforts should result in a better overall solution.
<persia> Unfortunately, it means that right now, things are a bit of a muddle.
<persia> Right.
<Lantizia> well see Mer got something out of it
<persia> So, Ubuntu tries to compile *everything* for all the available architectures.
<Lantizia> Badly
<persia> And the lubuntu folk are focusing on application set and integration of an lxde environment for *any* architecture.
<persia> So, assuming that both efforts work, you'll end up being able to do as you describe.
<persia> Badly?
<Lantizia> Yeah, the LXDE folks do that with Debian too
<Lantizia> Yeah if Ubuntu was on a mission to run on every type of machine... they'd keep the same types of where they're forking from... Debian
<Lantizia> Not i386... amd64 only
<persia> My apologies: I was unclear.
<Lantizia> But anyway!
<persia> The goal is *not* to run on any machine.  Debian is the universal OS.
<Lantizia> Yeah :D
<persia> But Ubuntu does work on i386, amd64, powerpc, armel, sparc, and ia64.
<Lantizia> but only officially supports i386 and amd64
<persia> Well, what does "support" mean :)
<persia> At least I personally use amd64, powerpc, and armel, and use systems that rely on sparc working.
<Lantizia> i.e. advertised on the main site and they're paid canonical developers can be arsed with
<persia> Yeah, well.
<Lantizia> hehe :D
<Lantizia> Anyway were a bit off topic
<persia> So, back to the topic.
<persia> Big issues you'll have today with your goal:
<persia> 1) the lubuntu stuff in karmic wasn't as polished as we'd like.  It should be better for lucid, but it's early for lucid.
<persia> IF you're up for helping with UI integration and stuff, this is a good thing, but if you just want an installed system, you may do better to wait.
<Lantizia> Yeah LXDE wasn't ready for 9.10 I know
<Lantizia> But should be for 10.04 LTS
<persia> 2) I'm not sure if there are open N900 kernels that support everything, and I am sure that none of the kernels currently in Ubuntu support the N900.
<persia> Userspace should be fine (although if you encounter issues, the folks in #ubuntu-arm can probably help troubleshoot, or if you're the type, you can help them to get them fixed :) )
<persia> I doubt that the lxde stack will end up being LTS for 10.04.
<persia> Might be, but that requires enough developers still wanting to maintain it after 18 months to keep doing so, and last I checked the lxde folk in Ubuntu didn't seem large enough to both create a new release every 18 months *and* support LTS releases.
<persia> Mind you, the core of Ubuntu will be LTS, but it wouldn't surprise me if some LXDE-specific bugs just didn't get fixed, or some LXDE-specific packages just didn't get the long-term support.
<Lantizia> I have very little faith in the LTS releases being bug free never mind the other releases hehe
<Lantizia> I use ubuntu for it's up to date packages... not stability hehe
<persia> No code is bug free.
<Lantizia> Oh sure I know that
<Lantizia> I just wouldn't install Ubuntu on like a server or anything
<persia> Even something simple like void main (argc, **argv) { printf("Hello World\n");} contains heaps of bugs.
<persia> I use it on a server every day: it depends on which bugs affect you :)
<Lantizia> Your certainly a talkative one
<Lantizia> So Ubuntu MID on N900... not planned, not done
<persia> Yeah, well.
<Lantizia> OK
<persia> Last I heard, there were issues with kernels for Nokia devices.
<persia> There's some people who do stuff on babbage boards, which have nearly the same chip as some of the Nokia handhelds.
<persia> But that's a bit different.
<persia> I suppose it could be done, but someone would have to do it.
<persia> And there's limits to what can be done entirely within Ubuntu (like the issues the Mer folk had in trying to find a way to make Mer libgtk compatible with Ubuntu libgtk and not break other use cases).
<Lantizia> Should ARM packages work on an armel distro/device?
<r0k3tm3n> any success running a mobile image on a Asus EEE 701?
<persia> Lantizia: packages compiled for armel should work on an armel device with sufficient processor support (ARMv5 for 9.04, ARMv6+vfp for 9.10, ARMv7+ for lucid).  No promises they work with any other ARM distro (Ubuntu only seeks source compatibility, not binary compatibility)
<persia> r0k3tm3n: There hasn't been a "Mobile" image since 7.10 (gutsy).  I suspect that some subset of the netbook or MID images ought to work, and perhaps even the 8.10 UMPC image (although that is nearing end-of-life).
#ubuntu-mobile 2009-12-17
<persia> JamieBennett: Is there a bug tag for all the enlightenment library syncs?
<JamieBennett> yes, there are several bugs for the syncs
<JamieBennett> persia: I can get you a list if you want
<persia> JamieBennett: If you have it handy.  I'm mostly interested in the context of the netbook-launcher-efl upload.
<JamieBennett> persia: one moment, need to get the list
<persia> If you don't have it handy, then I'll just let it be :)
<JamieBennett> Half way down https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/~jamiebennett/+subscribedbugs 496641 to 496649
<persia> Oh my.  The queue of u-a requests is > 100 items, which is going to take a few days.
<persia> Maybe next week.  Thanks.
#ubuntu-mobile 2009-12-18
<georgeascott> I'm trying to find general mobile support/tips non distro specific
<georgeascott> google keeps automatically redirecting me to a page saying to log in from a pc to set up google voice
<persia> JamieBennett: Looking at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM/CasperSpeedup, have you determined if the long-running processes are processor-limited, io-limited, or ipc-limited?
<JamieBennett> persia: not yet and unsure how to check them for this
<JamieBennett> I have managed to shave 7 seconds off though so far
<JamieBennett> seems slow-down occurs around debconf-communicate calls which is suspicious
<persia> That seems to be a lot of them, yeah :)
<persia> I also wonder if some could be parallelised, like `dpkg -P gdm-guest-session`
<persia> Dunno if "time" is available in initramfs, but that's how I usually check the state of various resource uses.
<persia> (and if you alter the format arguments, can usually return some interesting values)
<JamieBennett> persia: that dpkg can be replaced with rm -r /usr/share/gdm/guest-session
<persia> I don't think that's the best answer, because that won't clear the configs.
<persia> Nice thing about `dpkg -P` is that is removes the associated configuration.
<JamieBennett> but we are looking at speed for a live image
<persia> Yeah.
<lool> JamieBennett: I'm pretty sure there are some low hanging fruits in perl code, perhaps bugs in the interpreter or just very slow constructs that we only notice on armish CPUs; I'm sure you'll find out  :-)
<persia> So, if we don't remove the configuration, that might end up leaving a gdm that is configured for guest sessions without the helper binary, which gives a poor user experience in the live environment.
<JamieBennett> lool: its just identifying test cases to shake them out
<lool> JamieBennett: Oh you mean you need some smaller test cases reproducing the issues?
<lool> JamieBennett: Does dpkg-reconfigure $package reproduce the slowness?  Would that be a good enough test case?
<persia> Right.  At least for the debconf-communicate case, we can probably just profile it running in an installed system and determine some of the issues.
<JamieBennett> lool: it would be to ensure they are the same yes, but the perl issue ?
<persia> JamieBennett: dpkg-reconfigure *is* perl :)
<lool> JamieBennett: debconf is usually perl + shell bits, so you will likely see it
<lool> JamieBennett: Once thing you can do is strace -t or -tt or -ttt to see which processes take what time to run
<persia> And you can profile perl to see which specific bits are slow.
<lool> There are better tools out there for profiling, but strace is a good first start if you don't yet know what's exactly involved in the problem
<JamieBennett> OK, will do.
<lool> JamieBennett: Oh -t/-tt etc. will but timestamps at the beginning of each line of strace output
<lool> Forgot to explain that part
<persia> JamieBennett: Last note is that I don't think it's worth trying to improve the speed of make-ssl-cert or fontconfig-voodoo untilthe rest is hit.  Limited parallelisation plus solving the debconf stuff should be a huge win, at which point it's proabably worth reprofiling.
<JamieBennett> persia: OK
<persia> JamieBennett: Was that the sort of review you sought when you asked for review in the meeting, or do you want something more detailed?
<JamieBennett> persia: between you and lool that's exactly what I needed. I'll probably prod you again when I have the results of the strace at some point
<persia> Sure :)
<Jones_Hugo> Hi there... any1 around?
<Jones_Hugo> Been tryind to load Hildon-Desktop on karmic... any1 got it done?
<Jones_Hugo> trying*
<dneary> Hi
<dneary> I just installed UNR 8.10 on a Samsung NC20
<dneary> Is the background fading in & out supposed to be really slow? I mean, 3 frames with 0.5fps?
<dneary> I assume it's a consequence of my graphics card not being supported (I had to install the community driver for the VX800 chipset on install)
<dneary> No-one in?
<asac> havent heard of NC20
<asac> but if you had to installsomething that wasnt there oob ...  i would guess its pretty sure that
<asac> dneary: why not UNR 9.10 ? ;)
<asac> or was that a typo?
<dneary> That's the one
<dneary> I missed the 8 button
<dneary> So typo, yes
<asac> you have xserver-xorg-video-openchrome installed ?
<asac> guess you followed instructions here: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/OpenChrome ?
<dneary> I followed the instructions at the top of the NC20 page
<dneary>  https://launchpad.net/~xorg-edgers/+archive/drivers-only/+build/1307486
<dneary> sudo dpkg -i /media/disk/xserver-xorg-video-via_0.2.904~svn814-0ubuntu0tormod_i386.deb
<dneary> sudo dpkg -i /media/disk/xserver-xorg-video-openchrome_0.2.904~svn814-0ubuntu0tormod_i386.deb
<dneary> First during installation, then again after installation
<asac> ok
<asac> anyway. at best check in -desktop ;)
<dneary> Yeah
<asac> but from what i understand thats the latest crack
<asac> in edgetsr
<dneary> First off the liveCD, then an install
<asac> edgetrs
<asac> what i mean is that xserver is a ubuntu-desktop topic ;)
<asac> not -mobile
<dneary> edgerts
<dneary> asac, UNR doesn't work out of the box either :)
<asac> yes, but if its a driver issue its not UNR :-P
<dneary> OK
<dneary> But one thing which could help is to know if the UNR desktop requires 3d to work (you could be using some GL or clutter by default in the desktop maybe?
<Jones_Hugo> Been trying to load Hildon-Desktop on karmic... any1 got it done?
<dneary> If you are, the chances are that with unaccelerated 2D it's going to be like running Tuxracer on the typical Nvidia chip in 2000
<JamieBennett> lool: around? output of an strace on /usr/lib/user-setup/user-setup-apply http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/343814/
<lool> JamieBennett: -t is a bit light, only second information
<lool> You might want -tt
<lool> JamieBennett: Start with -e trace=process
<lool> That limits to process creation / destruction events
<JamieBennett> lool: looks like its the reading of templates.dat which takes around 4 seconds
<lool> Oh that could be
<lool> It's 2 MB which is a bit heavy to read on each debconf-communicate
<JamieBennett> lool: yes I think its 2.4MB
<JamieBennett> which is read each debconf-communicate which adds 4 seconds to each of the scripts that use it
<lool> Yeah it's pretty clearly reading of this file
<lool> It's odd that it takes so long to *read* it
<JamieBennett> not sure how to 'fix' that though
<JamieBennett> apart from a) not read it or b) cut the file down
<lool> JamieBennett: Can you try 'cat /var/cache/debconf/templates.dat'
 * JamieBennett reboots the babbage
<lool> Oh on a real system is fine
<lool> JamieBennett: I mean I find it odd that *reading* 2 MB of data takes so long, unless it's parsed at the same time
<lool> It could be slow to read it because it's stuffed into some perl data structure
<JamieBennett> time cat /var/cache/debconf/templates.dat
<JamieBennett> real	0m6.727s
<JamieBennett> user	0m0.000s
<JamieBennett> sys	0m0.036s
<JamieBennett> or is that not what your after?
<lool> So the cat took 6 seconds to run?
<lool> For a 2 MB file?
<lool> That's huge
<JamieBennett> on my quad core
<JamieBennett> 2m16 on the ARM
<lool> Uh
<lool> time cat /var/cache/debconf/templates.dat >/dev/null
<lool> cat /var/cache/debconf/templates.dat > /dev/null  0,00s user 0,00s system 0% cpu 0,006 total
<JamieBennett> :)
<lool> on my laptop
<lool> and on my desktop
<lool> cat /var/cache/debconf/templates.dat > /dev/null  0,00s user 0,01s system 5% cpu 0,198 total
<JamieBennett> 0.147s on the babbage
<lool> Ok
<lool> JamieBennett: So if you look at debconf-communicate, it starts with Debconf::Db->load
<lool> Here it's enough to load templates.dat
<lool> What you can try is creating a smaller test case by cp /usr/bin/debconf-communicate debconf-test
<JamieBennett> I see the load
<lool> add an exit 0 after the load and run debconf-test
<lool> time ./debconf-test
 * JamieBennett does that
<lool> ./debconf-test  0,20s user 0,00s system 97% cpu 0,204 total
<lool> on my laptop
<JamieBennett> 0m4.632s
<lool> So that's clearly your culprit
<JamieBennett> what we expected
<lool> time perl -e 'use Debconf::DbDriver; $templates=Debconf::DbDriver->driver(Debconf::Config->templates);'
<lool> Should be the same thing, but I'm following the debconf code
<lool> JamieBennett: The actual driver to create the templates.dat structure in memory is /usr/share/perl5/Debconf/DbDriver/File.pm
<lool> It has a bit of debug
<lool> You could enhance it with some timing info
<lool> JamieBennett: and actual parsing is done by /usr/share/perl5/Debconf/Format/822.pm
<JamieBennett> OK, I'll add some timestamps to see what's happening
<lool> JamieBennett: With these last two, you're probably able to construct a small perl program which just parses the rfc2822 data in templates.dat and is too slow
<lool> JamieBennett: Another approach is to question the usage of this format; you could propose usage of alternate formats (e.g. binary mmap-able sqlite db or something)
<JamieBennett> lool: seems like a big change doing that though
<lool> JamieBennett: When you have a small perl program, either you can change the perl style to be more efficient, or it might be an issue in the perl interpreter itself
<lool> e.g. misaligned memory accesses or unoptimized code path on arm
<lool> JamieBennett: I don't think it's that big a change, it's all configurable, see /etc/debconf
<lool> Name: templatedb
<lool> Driver: File
<lool> Mode: 644
<lool> Filename: /var/cache/debconf/templates.dat
<lool> So you'd be creating e.g. Driver: sqlite
<lool> Anyway, better to look into why it's slow first
<lool> JamieBennett: When you have some data, talk to cjwatson
<JamieBennett> lool: I'll get the timing info and we can decide the course of action from there.
<JamieBennett> will do
<lool> is the d-i/debconf guru and will have a better taste than I have to decide where to fix debconf slowness
<lool> it might be he knows of more options or has a preference for one
<JamieBennett> lool: OK, thanks for the help.
<lool> Ack
<JamieBennett> lool: OK so its definitely in /usr/share/perl5/Debconf/Format/822.pm but its not that its slow, its that the read() is being called many many times. Just trying to locate what calls it
<JamieBennett> lool: 	while (! eof $this->{_fh}) {
<JamieBennett> 		my ($item, $cache)=$this->{format}->read($this->{_fh});
<JamieBennett> 		$this->{cache}->{$item}=$cache;
<JamieBennett> 	}
<JamieBennett> Is the culprit
<JamieBennett> in File.pm
<JamieBennett> (called twice strangely but its the second call to it that take 3s +)
#ubuntu-mobile 2009-12-19
<Jones_Hugo> Hey... any1 there?
<lool> JamieBennett1: Hmm the reads were like 4096 bytes in size, that decent even if not optimal; you could try reading into buffer of a specified larger size, but I would rather suspect the parsing / storing in perl vars to be slow
