#ubuntu+1 2007-12-17
<h3sp4wn> maybe it breaks bash - it definately doesn't break zsh
<cafuego> DanaG: They just get escaped.
<askand> !ati
<ubotu> To install the Ati/NVidia drivers for your video card, see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/BinaryDriverHowto
<askand> !info ati
<ubotu> Package ati does not exist in hardy
<askand> !info fglrx
<ubotu> Package fglrx does not exist in hardy
<askand> !info fglrx-driver
<ubotu> Package fglrx-driver does not exist in hardy
<askand> -_-
<mrsno> !info xorg-driver-fglrx
<ubotu> xorg-driver-fglrx: Video driver for ATI graphics accelerators. In component restricted, is optional. Version 7.1.0-8.42.3+2.6.22.5-14.1 (hardy), package size 12154 kB, installed size 31348 kB
<mrsno> askand you can also browse packages.ubuntu.com
<DanaG> pm the bot instead, if not sure of what command you want.
<askand> DanaG: mrsno: thanks!
<mrsno> no problem
<WorkingOnWise> Is Koffice 1.9.95 Koffice 2.0 prerelease, or the last of Koffice 1.x?
<WorkingOnWise> in the repos
<WorkingOnWise> nm. Google is awesome! KOffice 1.9.95 is KOffice 2.0 Alpha5
<hwilde> ever seen the loopback address just disappear?
<hwilde> ever seen the loopback address just disappear?
<hwilde> ever seen the loopback address just disappear?
<hwilde> after a reboot the local loopback address is missing.  I have to run ifconfig lo up.  It is specified in /etc/network/interfaces.  why would his happen?
<Hobbsee> !patrience
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about patrience - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
<Hobbsee> !patience
<ubotu> The people here are volunteers, your attitude should reflect that. Answers are not always available. See http://wiki.ubuntu.com/IrcGuidelines
<bazhang> already impatient? nearly four more months til release :}
<hwilde> my interfaces file is correct so how could this happen
<hwilde> it is very bad all networking dies because it cannot find localhost 127.0.0.1
<crimsun> sanity-check whether it appears in /etc/hosts
<crimsun> next ensure that loopback is up with `ip a`
<hwilde> after reboot loopback is down and must be brought up with ifconfig lo up
<hwilde> /etc/hosts has first line=  127.0.0.1 localhost
<crimsun> pastebin your /e/n/i
<hwilde> I cannot show you the wireless card settings but it starts with   auto lo;  iface lo inet loopback
<crimsun> and you're current w/ today's updates?
<hwilde> I don't think it is related to the new version;  it was working before
<hwilde> then randomly it drops
<crimsun> well, it's not going to randomly drop
<hwilde> yes that is why I am so shocked and apalled
<crimsun> something with privileged access is either downing it, or there's a serious networking bug.
<hwilde> this is correct syntax right?
<hwilde> auto lo
<hwilde> iface lo inet loopback
<crimsun> yes, that matches mine.
<hwilde> ~$ cat /etc/hosts
<hwilde> 127.0.0.1 localhost
<hwilde> oh well I am going to hack rc.local to run ifconfig lo up and get on with it
<DanaG> wtf? ctrl-tab changes by TWO tabs in firefox-3.0.\
<khermans> libfaad2-dev depends on specific version of libfaad2-0
<khermans>  libfaad2-dev: Depends: libfaad2-0 (= 2.0.0+cvs20040908+mp4v2+bmp-0ubuntu5) but it is not going to be installed
<khermans> why is in not >= rather than just =???
<khermans> how to get this fixed?  file bug?  report to someone else?
<bazhang> latest update?
<khermans> bazhang, yes
<khermans> is there a process for resolving issues of the class?
<bazhang> khermans: perhaps wait until one of the devs/packagers stops in to comment, or file a bug on launchpad--you can search launchpad from within firefox you know? there is a plugin in the repos for it
<khermans> bazhang, yeah i dont see a bug on it
<khermans> ill file one
<bazhang> good to know; thanks for that khermans
<khermans> bazhang, np
<RAOF> khermans: Devel libraries *always* depend on the exact version.
<khermans> RAOF, hrm, in case type changes?
<khermans> RAOF, well it is still not installable
<khermans> the package is not included
<RAOF> *That* is a bug.
<RAOF> On the other hand, I thought we had faad 2.5 now :)
<khermans> RAOF, apparently not yet :-)
<khermans> RAOF, changed bug to "libfaad2-dev depends on uninstallable version of libfaad2-0 in hardy"
<khermans> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/faad2/+bug/176859
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 176859 in faad2 "libfaad2-dev depends on uninstallable version of libfaad2-0 in hardy" [Undecided,New]
<RAOF> khermans: Of course, the package that you're *after* is libfaad-dev
<RAOF> khermans: *That* works.
<khermans> RAOF, not really if I want version 2!
<khermans> libfaad2-dev has been around since at least feisty
<khermans> RAOF, am i missing something here?
<Le-Chuck_ITA> hi all, is there an easy way to install hardy on a spare partition without rebooting gutsy?
<Le-Chuck_ITA> e.g. running ubiquity from the hardy iso mounted in loopback?
<BUGabundo> g'morning
<tarzeau> what's after hardy?
<Pici> tarzeau: Usually isnt announced until hardy is released or very close to release.
<tarzeau> can someone think of interesting information to be extracted from http://krum.ethz.ch/udc/ ?
<tarzeau> Pici: ok thanks, probably something starting with i ?
<Pici> presumably.
<Pici> Yikes, thats some color shceme.
<mrtimdog> Has the 'No Wallpaper' wallpaper disappeared from the Appearance Prefs, Background options (in gnome)?
<tarzeau> Pici: if you use a browser without css, it looks all classic
<Pici> tarzeau: but then
<tarzeau> Pici: or if you have a browser that can use different CSS files...
<Pici> er, but then I'd be using a browser without css ;)
<tarzeau> no opera can do CSS but you can replace any css with your own
<tarzeau> and i believe a good browser would allow that and also allow to put the data it shows through a pipe and some command and then render it
<tarzeau> (i'm still waiting for that graphical interactive browser)
<tarzeau> actually, that browser existed... the NeXT systems had a WWW browser with a built-in editor and the Services menu
<tarzeau> anyways
<tarzeau> Pici: if you can give me a different css, here you can try: http://asdfasdf.ethz.ch/~tar/bts/?www.icebrrg.com/Styles/Master/c/style.css
<tarzeau> Pici: and if i like it, i might install it (or can i use the ubuntu css?)
<Pici> tarzeau: I'm just fooling around, I like it :)
<tarzeau> oh looks much better http://asdfasdf.ethz.ch/~tar/bts/?www.ubuntu.com/themes/ubuntu07/style.css
<tarzeau> i guess i'll put that for the ubuntu devel changes pages...
<tarzeau> Pici: does ubuntu also have a mascot? like debian? http://asdfasdf.ethz.ch/~tar/www.debian.org/
<tarzeau> i mean debian is moo and milk and a supercow
<arbus> hi, got dependency errors with "apt-get install kubuntu-desktop" on alpha 1 standard install (over the net). kde-core install goes thru fine. Anyone else with this problem?
<eshat> hi all ,.. which sources do i need to change to ubuntu testing ????
<eshat> how do switch to hardy from gutsy ???
<compwiz18> gutsy to hardy, or hardy to gutsy?
<eshat> compwiz18: gutsy to hardy
<pvandewyngaerde> eshat:   in /etc/apt/sources.list   change gutsy to hardy
<PJC> ah, the info I wanted but was afraid to ask
<tumbleweed__> hmmm
<tumbleweed__> Hardy is pretty damn stable for an alpha
<tumbleweed__> I'm impressed.
<tumbleweed__> tumbleweed@tumbleweed:~$ sudo apt-get install sun-java6-plugin
<tumbleweed__> Reading package lists... Done
<tumbleweed__> Building dependency tree
<tumbleweed__> Reading state information... Done
<tumbleweed__> Package sun-java6-plugin is not available, but is referred to by another package.
<tumbleweed__> This may mean that the package is missing, has been obsoleted, or
<tumbleweed__> is only available from another source
<tumbleweed__> E: Package sun-java6-plugin has no installation candidate
<tumbleweed__> :/
<void^> pastebin, and 64bit?
<tumbleweed__> yeah, I'm on 64-bit
<tumbleweed__> why?
<void^> there's no sun-java6 plugin on 64bit
<tumbleweed__> ah
<tumbleweed__> any way to pull in the 32bit package?
<void^> sure, with nspluginwrapper. better try icedtea.
<tumbleweed__> aright
<tumbleweed__> xfce is yummy
<nomasteryoda> and fluxbox is the cats meow
<tumbleweed__> yus
<tumbleweed__> I like both
<tumbleweed__> i generally only use fluxbox when I want an ultra-light os, though
#ubuntu+1 2007-12-18
<alteregolio> high
<Toma-> what would be nice, is apt-get or aptitude making a suggestion of what packages to remove if youre running out of disk space. kind of like running deborphan when its needed or something
<h3sp4wn> You would need to work out how often things are run to make a sane decision as of what to remove
<ghuang> hi
<ghuang> during boot of the hardy alpha 1 CD on my laptop, it gets stuck diplaying this message over and over:
<ghuang> bcm43xx: Error: microcode bcm43xx_microcode5.fw not available or load failed
<ghuang> not like rapidly, but once every 30 secodns or so
<ghuang> I have my ethernet plugged in, so it's not like it *has* to figure out the wireless to proceed
<h3sp4wn> Get the microcode ?
<ghuang> any ideas?
<ghuang> how can I get the microcode in the middle of kernel init on a bootable CD?
<ghuang> I am familiar with this scenario when linux is already isntalled -- this is different
<h3sp4wn> Are you running 2.6.24-1 ?
<ghuang> whatever is on the hardy alpha 1 bootable CD
<ghuang> 2.6.22-14
<ghuang> it's ata  shell prompt (finally), but X didn't start at all
<h3sp4wn> Thats the gutsy kernel still
<ghuang> it must be an issue with the hardy CD packaging, then ;)
<h3sp4wn> As far as I can see there is no restricted modules for the hardy kernel yet
<ghuang> ah
<ghuang> that's too bad, I was hoping to help out with testing
<ghuang> I guess I'll install using gutsy and then try upgrading from there
<ghuang> thanks for the info! :)
<h3sp4wn> ghuang: You could try a daily build or alpha 2 (if alpha 2 exists)
<h3sp4wn> or the netboot/mini.iso (that has never failed for me yet)
<tumbleweed__> E: /var/cache/apt/archives/slocate_3.1-1.1ubuntu1_amd64.deb: subprocess pre-installation script returned error exit status 1
<Hobbsee> is there a bug about it?
 * tumbleweed__ checks
<tumbleweed__> nope
<compwiz18> tumbleweed__: https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/157661
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 157661 in slocate "package slocate 3.1-1ubuntu3 failed to install/upgrade: subprocess pre-installation script returned error exit status 1" [High,Confirmed]
<tumbleweed__> ah
<tumbleweed__> I was looking in hardy
<compwiz18> it isn't in Hardy?
<tumbleweed__> nope
<tumbleweed__> didn't have this problem in gutsy, either
<compwiz18> me neither
<compwiz18> its a hardy update, I think
 * tumbleweed__ shrugs
<Hobbsee> looks like a gutsy--> hardy dist-upgrade problem
<compwiz18> yeah
<DarkMageZ> not a gutsy --> hardy problem. i have it on my hardy alpha 1 clean install.
<DarkMageZ> after updates of course :p
<compwiz18> same
<Hobbsee> ah
<Hobbsee> yes, but we only carea bout gutsy --> hardy, or current clean-installs from herd 2 (when it's out)
<malnilion> Why are they called herds?
<tumbleweed__> nope
<tumbleweed__> I did a clean install of hardy
<Hobbsee> malnilion: they're not
<Hobbsee> tumbleweed__: off what?
<tumbleweed__> an alternate install disc
<Hobbsee> alpha 1?
<tumbleweed__> yup
<Hobbsee> well, that was not ever promised to be trouble free
<tumbleweed__> right
<tumbleweed__> wasn't what I was looking for :P
<Hobbsee> the bug has the solution, if you were looking for that
<tumbleweed__> yup, saw it
 * Hobbsee was more interested about where it's going to hit, and if it should be required to be fixed for tribe 2.
<tumbleweed__> doesn't seem as if it will need to be fixed by tribe 2, as it's an upgrade issue, and a newer version will be in tribe 2
<tumbleweed__> unless I'm mistaken
<compwiz18> that sounds right
<compwiz18> its a upgrade issue, not installation
<DanaG> Yay, it seems like the 2.6.24-2-generic kernel is at least slightly less laggy than the .24-1 kernel.
<DanaG> But it's stilll rather annoying.
<DanaG> Argh, that trackerd icon is distracting.
<gary4gar> becuase bug 43154 my system crashes :(, now Via came up with new driver. can anyone help me install & configure the new driver?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 43154 in xserver-xorg-video-via "freezes with 3D applications on VIA Unichrome K8M800, KM400" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/43154
<DanaG> Wow, this new scheduler sucks.
<DanaG> I
<DanaG> I'm getting audio cracking when trying to use the 'duplicate' feature in PulseAudio.
<DanaG> It only stops crackling when I stop folding@home.
<gary4gar> j #uclibc
<gary4gar> what is VMI-ONLY path or V4L path?
<h3sp4wn> gary4gar: VMI is the vmware paravirtualised interface
<gary4gar> and V4L?
<h3sp4wn> video for linux
<gary4gar> okay thanks
<gary4gar> i am trying to compile driver from source, but facing lot of issues
<h3sp4wn> which driver ?
<gary4gar> VIA Linux K8M64XF41061 Driver kernel Source Code
<gary4gar>  Product/s:  	K8M800/K8N800 UniChrome Pro integrated graphics
<gary4gar> bug #43154
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 43154 in xserver-xorg-video-via "freezes with 3D applications on VIA Unichrome K8M800, KM400" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/43154
<h3sp4wn> are you sure its for 2.6.24 ?
<gary4gar> h3sp4wn, i have both, then gutsy kernel & hardy 's kernel
<gary4gar> on whichever this thing works, i will make a switch :)
<h3sp4wn> gary4gar: Where can I get the thing you are trying to compile from ?
<gary4gar> http://www.viaarena.com/Driver/k8m64xf41061-kernel-src_20050926.tgz
<gary4gar> ^^direct link
<gary4gar> http://www.viaarena.com/default.aspx?PageID=420&OSID=25&CatID=2580&SubCatID=109
<gary4gar> ^^information of the driver packsge
<h3sp4wn> gary4gar: Are you sure thats the new just released driver ?
<h3sp4wn> (that is mentioned in the bug report - seems wierd that it has 2005 in the filename
<gary4gar> h3sp4wn, yeah...the date is :13 December 2007
<gary4gar> few days back
<gary4gar> oops my mistake, i gave the wrong link
<gary4gar> http://www.viaarena.com/Driver/cle266cn400cn-cx700cn800xorg40072-kernel-src_20071213d.rar
<gary4gar> ^^^correct one
<gary4gar> there also a binary available
<gary4gar> http://www.viaarena.com/default.aspx?PageID=420&OSID=45&CatID=3220&SubCatID=150
<h3sp4wn> That build system is a complete mess
<gary4gar> yeah i know
<gary4gar> topic running on this in forums : http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=636368
<mrtimdog> Hi, I've just installed an alternative browser with no problems (Swiftfox). But when I create a gnome desktop URL link this link always opens in Firefox. I've changed the default applications, and also the alternatives for x-www-browser but no luck!
<mrtimdog> What do I need to change to change the default browser for desktop URL links?
<Tomcat_> mrtimdog: Have you checked that FF is closed? Sometimes, FF derivates just open another window of an existing FF. :)
<mrtimdog> Hi Tomcat_: Yes all ff and sf processes were gone.
<mrtimdog> When a Swiftfox browser is open, the desktop link will open within the running Swiftfox. It's just for when a new browser is needed to open the link.
<Tomcat_> mrtimdog: Mh. What does "gnome-open <URL>" do?
<mrtimdog> Tomcat_: gedit!
<Tomcat_> Eh. .)
<mrtimdog> Tomcat_: It's a .desktop file, with a Type=Link and a URL=http://... entries.
<mrtimdog> Is there a way of listing any registered URL type handlers?
<mikkael> the kdesudo part in systemsettings/kcontrol is broken in hardy (which is already reported in launchpad). i need to access the kdm settings, what would be the kcmshell command to launch this with kdesu ?
<h3sp4wn> !info xserver-xorg-video-via
<ubotu> xserver-xorg-video-via: X.Org X server -- VIA display driver. In component main, is optional. Version 1:0.2.2-5 (hardy), package size 146 kB, installed size 456 kB
<h3sp4wn> gary4gar: Yeah you don't need that very old version of DRI
<h3sp4wn> gary4gar: There is another one in the updated rar file
<gary4gar> h3sp4wn, where?, link please?
<h3sp4wn> gary4gar: Just underneath the other one
<h3sp4wn> http://drivers.viaarena.com/cle266cn400cn-cx700cn800xorg40072-kernel-src_20071213d.rar
<clusty> hey
<clusty> i am having some issues with the java and new X
<gary4gar> h3sp4wn, whats your video card?
<clusty> the famous lock issue with some library
<clusty> any ideas how to fix it?
<gary4gar> h3sp4wn, but thats a old 14 February 2007, A Valentine gift from Via
<gary4gar> :p
<gary4gar> lol
<h3sp4wn> gary4gar: I use nvidia don't like it though
<gary4gar> h3sp4wn, mobo?
<h3sp4wn> gary4gar: No seperate graphics card
<gary4gar> h3sp4wn, oh
<gary4gar> h3sp4wn, can you help me in enable 3d support ?
<mikkael> ive got a nasty problem in kubuntu hardy: i wanted kdm to autologin my user. kdesudo in systemsettings/kcontrol is broken. i used "kdesu kcmshell kdm" and changed it to autologin, but kdm respect my changes. then i tried the same but with "sudo" (which was propably bad), now kdm doesnt start at boot, i have to switch to another tty, startx, and launch kdesktop, kicker, kwin manually to have a desktop back. any idea how i can fix kdm again
<mikkael> *kdm didnt respect my changes with kdesu..
<h3sp4wn> gary4gar: I am trying to build the damn thing right now
<gary4gar> h3sp4wn, but you don't have the required hardware, then how can you manage?
<mikkael> brb
<h3sp4wn> gary4gar: I know what the current driver looks like
<gary4gar> h3sp4wn, sadly unichrome part of Mesa is unmaintained. :(
<gary4gar> h3sp4wn,forums at via, might be help too, http://forums.viaarena.com/categories.aspx?catid=28&entercat=y if you succed then please do write a Howto or a wiki page on it for sure :)
<gary4gar> if you don't have much time then guide me,  i can write a write on your behalf, with all due credits :
<h3sp4wn> gary4gar: I cannot guarantee I can do it - its seems its a forked version of - http://www.openchrome.org
<gary4gar> i was already using open-chrome
<gary4gar> are there any performance boost & does the hanging problem still there?
<gary4gar> h3sp4wn, you are trying is a big deal for me, if you succeed then great, else its okay :)
<h3sp4wn> gary4gar: openchrome has not been updated since october
<gary4gar> yeah..i noticed that, i too gave up, & now thinking to get a nvidia 5200
<gary4gar> if the issue does not solve soon
<rgreening> Anyone have a problem with adept meta package and recent updates causing conflict and adept packages to be removed? It seems that the adept metapackage needs to be updated else it causes all other deps to be removed. Was this intended or a small error?
<Hobbsee> rgreening: yes
<rgreening> Hobbsee: any idea on how to correctly fix or recover? I could temp use the apt-get or aptitude from command line, but I'd like to get adept back or whatever the Hardy Heron GUI manager will be for Kubuntu
<Hobbsee> rgreening: do a dist-upgrade
<rgreening> 1 sec then...
<Hobbsee> oh, wait
<rgreening> no. that wont help.
<rgreening> Im already at latest dist and updates, which removed the adept
<Pici> I typically use aptitude and use its 'the follwing actions will resolve this thing' options to pick something that works for me.
<rgreening> It applied a bunch of updates to apt, which caused adept to be removed.
<Hobbsee> yup
<Hobbsee> Pici: adept needs to be rebuilt, etc
<Hobbsee> iirc, it didn't actuallyb uild with the new stuff
<Pici> Hobbsee: Right, I realize that.
<h3sp4wn> Pici: Thats what I usually do - but recently first sign of trouble I just do an aptitude safe-upgrade
<rgreening> so, will adept meta package get rebuilt?
<rgreening> I really dislike using aptitude long-term
<Pici> I can't speak for the devs for when that will happen, but usaually given a period of time these things 'fix themselves' (in other words, the devs work their magic)
<Hobbsee> rgreening: yes, eventually
<rgreening> I guess I'll try and revent my blunder. I was holding back the update which was going to remove adept, but accidentally did the update this am. DOH.
<rgreening> I'll prob use synaptic for now.
<WorkingOnWise> good morning. I just did a fresh install from the alpha1 cd. I expected to be greeted with the restricted driver manager so I couln get my Nvidia Geforce GO 6100 video card. Where do you go to setup the 3d vid drivers the "ubuntu" way in Hardy?
<Pici> The restricted drivers manager should be there, if its not, you might need to install it. (There was an issue in the Gutsy alphas that you had to do that too)
<Pici> My install was an upgrade, so I didnt encounter this.
<bazhang> I had to install mine
<livingdaylight> Anyone here know or have any thought about the future adoption of Conary as a pm replacement to APT?
<WorkingOnWise> ty everyone. will go now and instal it.
<Pici> I don't forsee that happening any time in the near future, especially for an LTS release.
<livingdaylight> shame it would be nice to see more innovation and ubuntu being brought into the future
<crdlb> ubuntu is based on debian, so unless debian moves to conary ... :)
<Pici> Huge changes tend not to be made before an LTS release, we're aiming for stability.
<livingdaylight> crdlb, conary is just a package manager
<crdlb> right, and using it would mean dropping dpkg and apt
<livingdaylight> Ubuntu was founded on doing things better ... if conary is better than apt why not adopt is... they did consider smart a while back didn't they?
<crdlb> because rewrites are bad
<crdlb> anyway, that's not a support question, so it's offtopic for this channel too :)
<bazhang> haha
<WorkingOnWise> i hit the enable checkbox in rdm for the NVIDIA drivers and get the error "Reconfiguring X.org video drivers is not possible: /etc/X11/xorg.conf is invalid or does not exist. I used gedit to look at the xorg.conf, which indeed did not exist in that location, so I saved a blank one there, hoping that rdm would accept it and config my video. What do I do?
<cypherdelic> Somehow after an update my /var/lib/dpkg/available was currupted, so I rm'ed it and run apt-get update and upgrade, but dpkg still claims for that missing file, please help.
<cypherdelic> Any ideas?
<cypherdelic> can somebody send me his file?
<albert23> cypherdelic: don't you have /var/lib/dpkg/available-old?
<cypherdelic> hold on ill have a look
<WorkingOnWise> I know there is intended to be a clean simple  GUI way to do this. It worked perfectly in Gutsy. Is it broke in Hardy? I didnt find anything in launchpad. It has happened 2 times on the same laptop. Is this broke? Do I report Theres so much in launchpad now I hate to add redundant bugs....
<WorkingOnWise> oh....AMD64 also...sorry
<kalpik> WorkingOnWise, sudo dpkg-reconfigure -phigh xserver-xorg
<WorkingOnWise> kalpik: what went wrong that that is needed. I am looking to the final rlease, when mom and pop will be installing this, and they get the same problem. They won't even know what to ask, or where, let alone understand the answer. They will just think Ubuntu is junk and stay in Windows
<kalpik> WorkingOnWise, hardy is not meant for your mom and dad right now :)
<kalpik> WorkingOnWise, things WILL break time and again during alphas.. read the topic! :)
<WorkingOnWise> kalpik: hehe...yeah, but if this is a problem is a bug, I want to help fix it, so Hardy is ready for mom and pop...
<WorkingOnWise> I guess I will file a bug report and old off on repairing it in case there are any questions on the current state. I can go a few days without 3D and compiz-fusion for the good of dear old ma and pa....
<WorkingOnWise> old=hold
<bardyr> Morgen
<WorkingOnWise> is rdm going to be installed and in the panel by default for the final release, like it was in Gutsy?
<Pici> I've gone without compositing since I upgraded to Hardy.
<bardyr> why?
<WorkingOnWise> Pici: my heart is heavy for u....
<WorkingOnWise> hehe
<Pici> bardyr: me?
<bardyr> yea
<kalpik> WorkingOnWise, definitely report bugs! That's what public alpha testing is all about! but you really cant complain if it breaks :)
<Pici> bardyr: Well, I was a bit wrong. Compositing support is there, but no compositing window manager (compiz) will run. Bug 173663
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 173663 in linux-restricted-modules-2.6.22 "compiz will not launch with fglrx driver - falls back to metacity" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/173663
<WorkingOnWise> kalpik: I am not complaining. I know it will break. When they do, I thought this was the first place to come to begin to sort it out....
<bardyr> Pici, whitelist fglrx :)
<Pici> bardyr: I did.
<DanaG> One thing that DID surprise me:
<bardyr> Pici, does aiglx/glx work?
<Pici> And l-r-m hasnt built succesfully for i386 yet :/
<DanaG> the supposedly "completely fair scheduler" actually makes my system much LESS responsive under load than it used to be.
<Pici> bardyr: Nope.
<kalpik> WorkingOnWise, yeah.. this is a good place to start.. but you would see more activity in this channel around alpha 4. Also when you report a bug, launchpad shows you related bugs.. the search algorith is VERY good.. if its been reported previously, there's a 99% chance it will show you the bug :)
<Pici> bardyr: It is using aiglx
<Pici> I cant really do any testing here fyi, I'm only on an ssh connection to that computer.
<WorkingOnWise> kalpik: thanks. I have run  previous alphas (Gutsy and Fiesty) but with the intent of just farmilurizing with maintenance and repair. This time I thought I might try helping the development too...:)
<kalpik> WorkingOnWise, that's the spirit! alphas FTW! :D
<bardyr> i just run alphas because i love the bleeding edge and breakning things
<jtt> where is the hardy alpha?
<jtt> iso that is
<bazhang> am I the only that having a non-broken hardy experience so far?
<WorkingOnWise> I do it because the breakage is comfortable...been a M$ junkie for years. Dont know what to do without a BSOD a few days a week  :)
<WorkingOnWise> sory....ot, I know
<bardyr> bazhang, then you havent played around yet and run good hardware
<bazhang> bardyr: au contraire :}
<livingdaylight> is anything really exciting expected for Hardy?
<livingdaylight> anything dramatic innovative? or is the work going into consolidation and stability?
<bardyr> livingdaylight, kernel 2.6.24 has some interesting things
<livingdaylight> bardyr, oh...??
<bardyr> and they are going to redo the hardware detection to use more better upstream
<livingdaylight> so, it sounds like the efforts are going more into consolidation then rather than flashy innovation
<bardyr> livingdaylight, like the new schedule CFS and bunch of better drivers
<bardyr> livingdaylight, yea but ubuntu needs that atm
<livingdaylight> fair enough
<bardyr> just off because the first LTS is very old and because i feel like ubuntu is being more and more "buggy"
<bardyr> i dont know how to make sense of that sentence btw
<kalpik> bardyr, lol..
<bazhang> pulseaudio?
<kalpik> bazhang, you can get pulseaudio working on gutsy too.. with minimal efforts :P
<bazhang> kalpik: thanks!
<kalpik> bazhang, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PulseAudio
<bardyr> whats the problem with alsa or is pulseaudio just much better?
<bazhang> thanks for the link! kalpik
<DanaG> Gaack, my system is so sluggish now with the new scheduler.
<DanaG> I'll type and the letters will take up to 1/4 second to show up.
<kalpik> bardyr, just some more "flashy" features.. like on the fly switching between sound cards.. splitting your existing soundcard into two.. stuff like that
<DanaG> PulseAudio won't use the surround feature on my cardbus Audigy.
<bardyr> DanaG, sluggish?
<DanaG> Yeah.
<bardyr> DanaG, prioritize X
<DanaG> I run two instances of Folding@Home in the background, niced to +19 and SCHED_IDLEPRIO, but now my system acts like those are high priority.
<bardyr> lol
<bardyr> isnt 19 high priority?
<DanaG> It seems odd to me that the supposedly wonderful "completely fair scheduler" seems to disregard 'nice' levels.
<DanaG> Positive is low priority -- extra "nice".
<DanaG> It's really hard to type properly when keyboard input lags so severely.
<bardyr> oh yea, by bad
<DanaG> In fact, it'll even cause audio dropouts if I'm using PulseAudio's "Simultaneous Output" feature.
<Pici> I always try to remember it as higher numbers are nicer to the processor because its giving it less work.
<bardyr> ha, smart
<bardyr> DanaG, CFS should respect nice
<DanaG> For some reason, it's subjectively not being very 'nice'.
<DanaG> Oh, and PulseAudio is niced to -11, yet it still gets dropouts caused by the +19 process.
<DanaG> That's just plain wrong.
<Tm_T> lovely
<Tm_T> hug it?
<AnRkey> I was thinking that the community could benefit from a Dell Idea Storm style website to get user feedback?
<AnRkey> who would I bother about that?
<AnRkey> :P
<DanaG> Here's an idea for Dell: stop being cheap, and use gigabit ethernet!
<bazhang> AnRkey: build it and they will come :}
<DanaG> A friend of mine got a nice new XPS M1330 notebook, and I was surprised to see that it only has 100 megabit ethernet.
<DanaG> On a """"high end"""""" notebook.
<AnRkey> thanks wayne
<DanaG> Or rather, not high end, but "extra special"
<AnRkey> but will the dev guys use the data it collects?
<AnRkey> I was thinking something like ideastorm.ubuntu.com
<DanaG> LAG.
<Dr_willis> a 'high prioced' notebook. :)
<DanaG> aah, then there's the key.
<DanaG> High priced but not actaully as high-featured as they'd like you to think.
<DanaG> Now here's something I really wanna' see in a notebook: audio chip with independent streaming.
<DanaG> Front outputs for notebook speakers, and then full surround outputs too, as a separate device.
<DanaG> Gaack, damn typing laggagagag.
<Dr_willis> Im waiting for those Eee's to get more common. :) i want one.
<Tm_T> I don't :p
<DanaG> I'd wait for them to not use a celeron.
<DanaG> How stupid: ultraportable notebook with an ultra-lacking-power-savings-features celeron?
<Dr_willis> not really an issue for me.
<Dr_willis> I just want somthing smaller to put in my lunchbox for me to use at work.
<Dr_willis> 'price range dictates all'
<Dr_willis> or so the pc/laptop market seems to be now a days
<DanaG> At least they could've socketed the thing...
<Dr_willis> No idea on that. :) i dont have one yet.. so i cant open it up.
<Dr_willis> I wonder how well it plays videos actually.
<bazhang> very well
<Dr_willis> i got my laptop set up with GeeXbox. so i can boot to a video player in like 20 sec.
<bazhang> hd is superb, but this is way offtopic..sorry
<Dr_willis> its a small laptop. but still a bit big for me to be lugging around.
<Dr_willis> I do have ubuntu on my laptop also. :)
<Dr_willis> Does that count as on topic? heh heh..
<Dr_willis> Id want to put ubuntu on the EEE also.
<bazhang> haha likely not--you should join #eeepc
<bazhang> or visit the site www.eeeuser.com
<Dr_willis> That was one of the worst sites ive seen :) it was all Flash!
<bazhang> haha
<Dr_willis> it was one big comercial.. told ya very little about the actual product.
<bardyr> i dont know if i should buy a EEE or a mini gPC laptop
<Dr_willis> I may get me an EEE for my birthday  heh. wife will say 'what do ya need another laptop for'
<bazhang> maybe youre thinking of asus' website--the link above is from actual users--nice wiki and forums
<bardyr> Dr_willis, well its not a "computer"
<Dr_willis> Been eyeing those Nokia  things also.
<Dr_willis> bazhang,  proberly
<Dr_willis> It is a nice trend to see low priced/flexiable micro-sized comptuers.  getting common.
<Dr_willis> I rember portable "dos pc's" with  little 8x16 lcd type screens.. ages ago.  egad i am old.
<h3sp4wn> Dr_willis: There is an 8GB version coming out in the not too distant future (of the EE)
<DanaG> I wish I could fix that **** CFS scheduler.
<Dr_willis> h3sp4wn,  yep. thats what i am waiting for i think. :) or the price drop on the low end one. when the 8 comes out.
<h3sp4wn> DanaG: Its just fair - did you try using schedtool ?
<DanaG> Yeah.
<DanaG> And I'm even running folding@home as SCHED_IDLEPRIO.
<h3sp4wn> and you have the sound at real time ?
<DanaG> It's +11, but it's not going realtime for some reason.
<DanaG> oh wait, I think not-realtime is default.
<DanaG> er, pulseaudio is -11.
<bardyr> DanaG, look at the bright sight, you are flooding alot!
<bardyr> foolding*
<DanaG>  W: main.c: setrlimit(RLIMIT_RTPRIO, (9, 9)) failed: Operation not permitted
<DanaG> That's odd.
<DanaG> PulseAudio is installed suid root...
<DanaG> And I am a member of pulse-rt.
<DanaG> gaaaaaaacackkck.
<DanaG> Somebody else using 2.6.24: try running something cpu-intensive at nice +19, and see if it bogs down the rest of the system.
<DanaG> That was odd... gdm just segfaulted.
<bazhang> how does one do that DanaG?
<bazhang> the nice +19 part I mean
<DanaG> Try this: nice +19 sh -c 'cat /dev/zero'
<bazhang> okay, just a moment
<DanaG> just nice NUMBER COMMAND
<DanaG> If you have dual core, it may take two instances to make it happen.
<DanaG> er
<DanaG> nice -n +19 cat /dev/zero
<bazhang> firefox with a bunch of flash tabs open should do it, yes?
<DanaG> AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAaaaactually, it seems like it's already slowing down at only one instance.
<DanaG> I'm testing nice load, specifically.
<DanaG> If I'm not running my folding, then everything works nicely enough, including firefox.
<bazhang> so perhaps its folding and not ubuntu
<DanaG> But even just 'cat /dev/zero' niced to +19 is making it slow.
<DanaG> Anyway, I have to go to an appointment.  I'll be back (quite) a while later.
<DanaG> Bye.
<bazhang> no real slowness detected--though I was just running several apps--don't have folding installed
<WorkingOnWise> which flash plug in works best, Adobe or Gnash?
<WorkingOnWise> in AMD64?
<bardyr> adobe
<bardyr> gnash has still not full flash support
<nanonyme> gnash has had some stability issues too
<Tomcat_> WorkingOnWise: gnash should be good for youtube vids, but I'd suggest Adobe.
<WorkingOnWise> ty.
<NumBeast> how far along is Hardy?
<pwnguin> almost alpha 2
<pwnguin> but mostly, a month and a half in
<pwnguin> most all the software has been refreshed from debian -- i think the kernel's still being kept away from users
<NumBeast> allright
<NumBeast> what new features are planned
<pwnguin> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/
<frojnd> hello
<pwnguin> looks like they're pushing in windows authentication integration
<Pici> Yeah, linux-restricted-modules isnt building on i386, I think thats a main reason why we havnt seen it yet.
<NumBeast> windows authentication integration?
<NumBeast> like replacing gksudo?
<frojnd> I have a question. Is someone willing to check a clip if I give'em url, its wmv and the content isn't exactly OK for everyone, (girl dancing and oiling herself) But it's not pron. What I'm trying to do is to figure it out what's the title of the song that's in the bacground. So is anyone willing to hear this, if he/she doesn't want to watch this. But I will only give link in a private window, because As I said someone don't allow this on other
<frojnd> chans...
<frojnd> pretty weird situation for me too :S
<NumBeast> what genre is the song
<NumBeast> but shouldn't that be in a different channel?
<frojnd> NumBeast, man vocal
<Pici> frojnd: Ignoring the content of the question, this isn't that kind of channel.  Second of all, you getting banned from -offtopic wasn't enough of a hint that this isn't welcome here?
<frojnd> Pici, oh here you are... I ask polite ... please direct me in channels that are more for talk..
<frojnd> on freenode I only know for linux, ubuntu, kubuntu
<frojnd> that's it
<frojnd> and now for offtopic for ubuntu
<frojnd> So Pici what's the chaannel for regular talking on freenode
<Pici> frojnd: Do you understand why this isnt allowed here?
<frojnd> Oh I see..
<frojnd> it's for hardy heron
<Pici> frojnd: The only think I can think of is #defocus, but you should ask before just blindly posting a link.
<frojnd> I'll keep that in mind
<Pici> frojnd: can you join me in #ubuntu-ops please?
<frojnd> Pici, sure
<pwnguin> NumBeast: like ldap
<NumBeast> where can I download hoary source?
<DanaG> Gaack, whose bright idea was that blinking magnifying-glass icon?
<tumbleweed__> NumBeast : you mean hardy?
<NumBeast> sorry, I do mean hardy
<tumbleweed__> I make that mistake all the time too :P
<DanaG> blink
<DanaG> blink
<DanaG> magnifying glass
<DanaG> (wow, that icon is annoying!)
<tumbleweed__> lul
<tumbleweed__> what magnifying glass?
<DanaG> The tracker applet.
<tumbleweed__> oh
<tumbleweed__> yeah
<tumbleweed__> oh
<tumbleweed__> and just so you know
<tumbleweed__> multimedia keys don't work off the bat in ubuntu if you choose to use xfce
<DanaG> Go to keyboard preferences and set your layout there -- that may fix it.
<NumBeast> DanaG: isn't there an option to disable that?
<tumbleweed__> ummm
<NumBeast> DanaG: the infernal blinking
<tumbleweed__> DanaG : nope
<NumBeast> so where can I get the hardy source?
<hydrogen> huh?
<NumBeast> is the hardy source available for download, and if it is, where can I find it
<hydrogen> what do you mean?
<theunixgeek> What features will be available in Hardy Alpha 2?
<theunixgeek> What features will be available in Hardy Alpha 2?
<NumBeast> I suppose hardy is in development
<NumBeast> and probably has source code
<NumBeast> is that source code available to the public
<theunixgeek> NumBeast: yes.
<hydrogen> NumBeast: you havn't really clarified *what* source code you are after
<NumBeast> where could I find that source code?
<theunixgeek> NumBeast: ubuntu is open source
<hydrogen> hardy is primarly a compilation of new versions of packages
<hydrogen> all put together under one big distro umbrella
<NumBeast> ah
<NumBeast> sorry
<hydrogen> do you want the source to every package?
<hydrogen> or just ones new to hardy?
<NumBeast> just the new ones to hardy
<NumBeast> sorry, I want to test hardy
<NumBeast> on a computer that doesn't have already ubuntu
<NumBeast> and I would like to know either where to find a .img, or where to find what I need to compile to make an .img
<hydrogen> oh
<hydrogen> you want the cd
<hydrogen> image
<NumBeast> yes please
<hydrogen> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily/20071218/ is todays build
<NumBeast> thank you
<hydrogen> or you could look for the alpha image
<PirateHead> If the Fawn alphas were called herds and the Gibbon releases were called tribes, why aren't the Heron alphas called flocks?
<tumbleweed__> PirateHead : because king nelson mandella said so.
<Erealz> hey all
<Erealz> umm is anyone running hardy heron and if so how those it run compared to gusty?
<infinitycircuit> does anyone know why dynticks is not enabled in the hardy kernels
<infinitycircuit> 2.6.24 branch that is
#ubuntu+1 2007-12-19
<tonyyarusso> I seem not to have sound on YouTube today - anyone else experienced that?
<cafuego> tonyyarusso: sound ok here
<tonyyarusso> cafuego: Hmm, alrighty.
 * tonyyarusso ponders what he's done to it
<DanaG> Odd: I can't use the "Make discoverable network sound devices available locally" feature in PulseAudio.
<DanaG> One computer's devices show up in the other one for only about half a second before disappearing.
<tonyyarusso> Epiphany-browser broken for anyone?
<poningru> hey guys which kernel is hardy supposed to be using?
<Pici> poningru: eventually 2.6.24 (or 23), but last I looked l-r-m wasn't building on i386 for that version so I'm not using it.
<poningru> oh ok
<poningru> cause uname for me shows up as 22
<poningru> and I was like hmm there is 24 available so wtf
<poningru> but didnt wanna mess with anything so...
<grazz> is the patchset for that kernel available?
<poningru> grazz: if you do a search for 2.6.24... I see a bunch of stuff
<poningru> no clue about the patchset
<poningru> or what it means
<grazz> the ubuntu kernel patches
<poningru> oh gotcha
<poningru> diff from upstream right?
<grazz> yeah
<poningru> yeah no clue
<poningru> mr. watson might know
<poningru> you know can we call him tjwatson from now on?
<poningru> it just sounds cooler
<grazz> haha
<poningru> and I can start singing the ibm song
<poningru> s/song/sons
<poningru> err songs*
<grazz> :P
<grazz> i need coffee
<bderrly_> hooray for hardy
<bazhang> tis nice so far
<scizzo-> working well I guess?
<bderrly_> just finished the upgrade and reboot
<bderrly_> so far so good
<bderrly_> it's always a good start when gdm comes up without having to fight the nvidia battle
<DanaG> Hmm, I think I figured out my issue with pulseaudio networked sinks disappearing.
<DanaG> Somehow, it's deciding that 1/2 second is "idle too long", and it drops that networked sink.
<scizzo-> well I am to scared to install hardy at the moment
<bderrly_> scizzo-, i had been when upgrading between most of the other version but this time i said screw it ;)
<scizzo-> bderrly_: didn't do any changes with configs or so?
<bderrly_> scizzo-, the only config it asked me about was /etc/screenrc
<grazz> cya ppl
<bazhang> bye
<bderrly_> anyone using grub2? i want to try it but don't want to break my box :)
<hartman> Hey, noticed an update kernel has been uploaded. Anyone had any trouble with it?
<mikkael> what does "failed to upload" mean ? i checked the ubuntu-builds at launchpad for l-r-m-2.6.24 ..
<BUGabundo> hya guys and gals
<BUGabundo> strange stuff just happened to me
<pvandewyngaerde> what ?
<BUGabundo> I rebooted, and moments before GDM start, I jumped to the TTYs to edit grup
<BUGabundo> *grub
<BUGabundo> when I jumped to X ctrl-alt-f7
<BUGabundo> my login was already entered
<BUGabundo> wifi detected, and pidgin connected
<BUGabundo> I didn't even input my username on GDM
<BUGabundo> just root, on the TTYs
<BUGabundo> I'm checking right now, if some update has changed the auto-login option on GDM config
<BUGabundo> nope, autologin is off
<BUGabundo> what do you think pvandewyngaerde ?
<pvandewyngaerde> could it be a resume of a session ?
<BUGabundo> plain reboot
<BUGabundo> no other stuff was open, other then those that autostart, like pidgin
<pvandewyngaerde> can you   reproduce this behaviour ?
<BUGabundo> still it doesn't explain the auto login
<BUGabundo> I'll have to reboot again and try to match the time to jump to TTY
<BUGabundo> it is not an easy thing to try to reproduce
<BUGabundo> unless it is really a bug. a really strange and security wise one
<BUGabundo> is anyone here going to reboot within the next few minutes?
<Pici> hmm
<dissonans> is hda intel known to work well in hardy?
<dissonans> or intel hda rather
<pvandewyngaerde> i cannot play audio anymore
<Pici> Its running mine fine... although I never had issues in Gutsy with it.
<Pici> Nor have I upgraded to 2.6.24
<dissonans> it's broken in gutsy for me :/
<dissonans> I even tried installing the very latest alsa driver from source
<dissonans> this is an asus laptop btw
<Pici> !intelhda
<ubotu> For fixing your Intel HDA sound this page has useful information https://help.ubuntu.com/community/HdaIntelSoundHowto
<dissonans> it's starting to piss me off, since it worked before reinstalling (previous install: upgraded feisty->gutsy)
<dissonans> ok, looking at that howto
<dissonans> rebooting
<Pici> hmm.. I have a feeling that alot of people are going to show up about l-r-m not being installed.
<Hobbsee> Pici: why/
<DarkMageZ> if anyone bitches then they aren't supposed to be running hardy
<Pici> Hobbsee: Aptitude wanted to upgrade my kernel packages to 2.6.24, but leave l-r-m at its current version.
<Hobbsee> ah yes, i'ts not all fully uploaded / installable yet
<Pici> Right.  I should have specified that I meant the people who don't look at whats being upgraded before they take the plunge.
<DarkMageZ> Pici, they shouldn't be running hardy :P
<Pici> DarkMageZ: If I had a penny for every time I've said that...
<DarkMageZ> if it wasn't against the code of conduct (which i have NOT signed) i'd wait for them and beat them with a stick!
<Hobbsee> Pici: then they deserve to lose X, or worse.
<Hobbsee> and get no help
 * Hobbsee shrugs
<Pici> Hobbsee: I think I saw yesterday you talking about the intel 3945 adapter not working with .24, but other people said that theirs was, did you ever figure that out or am I remembering things weirdly?
<Hobbsee> Pici: never figured it out.  the bluetooth works fine, the rf_kill switches show as disabled...
<Hobbsee> i'm wondering if i need l-r-m for some insane reason too
<Hobbsee> should poke rtg over it
<Pici> Okay :)
<dissonans> hm don't think the howto helped me much :(
<dissonans> rebooting again ...
<dissonans> ah finally sound .........
<dissonans> set the model=laptop, then it worked :|
 * dissonans makes mental note to consider Mac for next work laptop
<bazhang> the 3945 works ok under hardy for me
<Pici> bazhang: Which kernel?
<bazhang> Pici: whatever is standard for the hardy smp would that be generic?
<Pici> bazhang: Sorry, I mean 2.6.22 or 2.6.24
<bazhang> Pici: not running it right now--is the .24 the latest? whatever is standard--I have done nothing special
<Pici> bazhang: It looks like the kernel metapackages just updated to 24, but had been at 22 previously.
<bazhang> Pici: I see--well I just updated earlier today, so then that would be 24 on mine sorry not be more helpful
<pvandewyngaerde> i cannot login to X anymore
<DarkMageZ> pvandewyngaerde, are you using proprietory graphics drivers :P
<Pici> DarkMageZ: And so it begins ;)
<pvandewyngaerde> nv
<DarkMageZ> Pici, i know. i'm waiting for him to confess his sins so i can start the burnination!
<Pici> pvandewyngaerde: and you recently did a kernel upgrade?
<pvandewyngaerde> yes
<DarkMageZ> pvandewyngaerde, you failed at reviewing the updates you installed before. l-r-m doesn't install :P
<pvandewyngaerde> and is there a solution ?
<DarkMageZ> pvandewyngaerde, the answer to that is "should you be using hardy?"
<pvandewyngaerde> No i shouldn't, but i DO
<Pici> So..
<DarkMageZ> the solution is to either hack up your own kernel or revert to the old one or wait for the repositories to have the complete kernel uploaded then update.
<Pici> I suggest reverting to the old one. I still havent upgraded to .24
<DarkMageZ> i saw that .24 was brokenzed so i didn't update it.
<Pici> ditto.
<pvandewyngaerde> hmm, i dont understand that it is a kernel problem,  i cannot get past the login screen, my password is correct,it just brings me back everytime
<Pici> pvandewyngaerde: Any hints in your xorg? or xsession errors?
<pvandewyngaerde> permission denied
<DarkMageZ> Pici, bugga. i was really hoping on burning someone for not using hardy properly.
<Pici> pvandewyngaerde: Is there a specific reason you are running Hardy?
<pvandewyngaerde> no
<Pici> pvandewyngaerde: how about your xorg log?
<pvandewyngaerde> opening acpi succesfull,  and something about configured mouse
<pvandewyngaerde> i guess i have some wrong permissions on my /tmp folder
<qaws> hi, is possible to update linux-restricted-modules-generic to new hardy version? I would like to do it, but I dont know, whether it needs to compile a new kernel, or it will be solved without me in few days.
<DarkMageZ> qaws, it should get sorted on the ubuntu repository side in a day hopefully. then just update.
<qaws> DarkMageZ thanks
<krzulu> Hi ! Anyone know why my wlan (ipw3945) changed name to wlan0_rename with the latest kernel upgrade ?
<bazhang> krzulu: would that be wlan0 and wmaster0?
<krzulu> bazhang: It used to be called eth0/wlan0
<bazhang> krzulu: and now you have the two, or only wlan0
<Richie> Hi, how can i find out which processes are currently using the audio device?
<Richie> at the moment whenever i try to play something, i get the error message saying it cannot open the audio device because it is in use
<Pici> lsof *should* list it
<Richie> so lsof | grep "/dev/snd"
<Richie> ?
<Richie> if so then it doesn't find anything :(
<Richie> hummm...nvm...i fixed it with alsa force-reload
<pvandewyngaerde> Pici:  i found it, it was a ICEauthority file
<fransman> how do i patch a interdiff file on a svn tree?
<slanning> lo, when booting and after starting "Timidity", it says gdm fails to start:  /etc/gdm/failsafeXServer: line 47: [: too many arguments: error: this program does not know how to configure the "10 shared/default-x-server doesn't exist" X server
<slanning> I think possibly because linux-restricted-modules-2.6.24-2 is not in the repository
<slanning> I think it's correct because rebooting with a previous kernel it worked, thanks anyway byebye now
<kalchas> hello! I would like to check if a bug report has already been filed: the search function on hardy (I'm using amd64) add/remove crashes the application (I am registering to launchpad now)
<bardyr> hey
<bardyr> !info linux-image-generic
<ubotu> linux-image-generic: Generic Linux kernel image. In component main, is optional. Version 2.6.24.2.2 (hardy), package size 25 kB, installed size 52 kB
<bardyr> w00t, meta package finally upgraded :D
<bardyr> !info nvidia-glx-new
<ubotu> nvidia-glx-new: NVIDIA binary XFree86 4.x/X.Org 'new' driver. In component restricted, is optional. Version 100.14.19+2.6.22.5-14.1 (hardy), package size 4896 kB, installed size 14848 kB
<bardyr> :/
<bardyr> will the restricted modules be recompiled to the new kernel before alpha2 ?
<Richie> yes
<bardyr> wee :)
<bardyr> with the latest beta driver?
<bardyr> for nvidia
<Richie> not sure
<hydrogen> I'd doubt that it would include a beta driver
<hydrogen> not sure though
<bardyr> its a beta release ;)
<cafuego> why include a beta driver?
<Richie> they're including beta kernel
<cafuego> I mean, apart from being a beta, does it add any new funcionality?
<bardyr> cafuego, yes and much support/bugfixes
<hydrogen> it fixes some bugs with argb
#ubuntu+1 2007-12-20
<genii> Hi ... does anyone know if Marvell IDE drivers are in Hardy yet?
 * genii sips a coffee and supposes no one knows
<scizzo-> genii: ahamana hubbidi whati?
<scizzo-> bardyr: well installing a nvidia _beta_ driver does not sound like a good idea really
<scizzo-> bardyr: even though the kernel itself is beta....
<poningru> hey guys I'm seeing a particular crash pattern
<poningru> with compiz on
<poningru> if I right click on a link in xchat and open link in a browser it crashes
<poningru> I think its only if the default browser is ff 3.0
<crdlb> hmm
<crdlb> have you changed the window placement mode by any chance?
<Hobbsee> install debug symbols, get a backtrace?
<poningru> crdlb: hmm dont think so
<poningru> hold on let me double check
<crdlb> it = compiz right?
<poningru> its the put window thing right?
<crdlb> Place Windows
<poningru> crdlb: yeah compiz crashes
<poningru> I have to kill x
<poningru> the funny thing is mouse can move
<poningru> nothing else works
<crdlb> the reason I ask is that the Random mode used to have a crasher when a window opened that was larger than the width of the screen
<poningru> ok I do have that on
<poningru> on smart
<poningru> with workarounds checked
<poningru> debbugs?
<crdlb> you could test if the crash still happens with that plugin disabled entirely
<poningru> Hobbsee: debbugs?
<poningru> hmm tru hold on
<poningru> http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/intel/showdoc.aspx?i=3184
<poningru> oh hmm
<poningru> yeah that was it
<Hobbsee> !debug
<ubotu> For help debugging your program, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingProcedures
<poningru> no that wasnt it ...
<poningru> it just an extra sec than normal to die
<Hobbsee> Pici: found the problem.
<Pici> Hobbsee: Oh?  Was it by any chance firmare?
<Pici> s/firmare/firmware
<Hobbsee> Pici: it appears i'm getting hit by http://bughost.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1209
<ubotu> bughost.org bug 1209 in RF-Kill "LED won't work" [Normal,Assigned]
<Hobbsee> apparently 'no led' && 'rf_kill switch set to on in syslog' != no wifi
<Pici> So... its working... but you can't actually enable it?
<Hobbsee> oh, it's working
<Hobbsee> it's just not visual
<Hobbsee> nm says i'm using wifi, etc
<Pici> Okay. I'll take a look when I reboot.
<Hobbsee> my network cable fell out, and i happened to discover this, when i got reconnected
<Pici> Very interesting.
<Pici> I think I shall reboot now to test...
<Hobbsee> :)
<Hammy_> Hey
<Hammy_> Hello?
<compwiz18> !hi
<ubotu> Hi! Welcome to #ubuntu+1!
<Hammy_> lolz i havnt used Ubuntu for a while since all my work was on my laptop and i really had a lot of work to do
<Hammy_> i have V 7.10
<compwiz18> 7.10 is in #ubuntu, this is for 8.04 :)
<Hammy_> for some reason when i enter the command to get the sources list it wont open...does any1 have any idea what im doing wronge? this is the command i enter [sudo vi /etc/apt/sources.list]
<compwiz18> works fine for me, Hammy_
<Tm_T> Hammy_: read topic
<Hammy_> wow i didnt even know 8.04 came out...it doesn't say so on the website lolz...well i guess ill just update it
<Hobbsee> it....hasn't come out.
<Hammy_> i just realized that lolz
<compwiz18> 8.04 comes out in april
<Hammy_> 8.04...
<Hobbsee> !aolspeak
<Hammy_> well...whats wronge with my command?
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about aolspeak - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
<Tm_T> !lol
<ubotu> Please don't use "LOL" and "OMG" and so forth on a regular basis. This is IRC, not IM, and using those lines on their own is not required, and it is rather annoying to the rest of the people in the channel; thanks.
<Hobbsee> Hammy_: no idea, but you're in the wrong room.
<Tm_T> Hobbsee: you're welcome
<Hobbsee> !aolspeak is <alias> lol
<ubotu> I'll remember that, Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> thanks Tm_T
<Tm_T> ;)
<Hammy_> okay...cya bye
<Hobbsee> wow.  a good candidate to win the clueless and annoying award...
 * Hobbsee would suggest a) no vi or b) wrongly spelt, as he's managed to misspell a lot of other things
<Tm_T> aye
<DanaG> Hmm, has anybody released Firefox 3.0b2 debs somewhere?
<Tm_T> :(
<Pici> Hobbsee: FYI, it didn't 'just work' for me.  I now have 2 listed wifi adapters.  One as wlan0_rename, that works, and another as eth1 (which was what my wifi was in .22).  http://pastebin.com/f5818a9ec is the output from ifconfig
<DanaG> dang, launchpad is down.
<DanaG> That interface naming thing is probably a matter of editing cat /etc/udev/rules.d/70-persistent-net.rules
<Hobbsee> Pici: yeah, i have wlan0_rename
<nenolod> greetings
<nenolod> is it just me, or is the compiz in hardy more crashprone than the one in gutsy?
<Hobbsee> nenolod: it's from git, so...
<Hobbsee> nenolod: which video card?
<nenolod> Hobbsee, nVidia GeForce 8600GTS
<crdlb> there seems to be a problem with the animation plugin that causes lockups for some people
<Hobbsee> apparently animations does it
<crdlb> I haven't had it
<nenolod> well it locks up when i switch windows; and i have to shell in and killall -9 compiz.real
<crdlb> switching windows indeed invokes animation
<nenolod> then it falls back to icky metacity which isn't great :P
<Pici> Better than completely taking everything with it
 * nenolod is only using compiz because it manages his windows better than metacity
<crdlb> it will eventually be possible to run compiz without the bling ;)
<nenolod> well i like the compositing manager part of compiz :P
<Pici> Although I personally like the eyecandy, it is a nice window manager.
<Pici> I did say that correctly, didn't I?
<crdlb> the goal is to do the possible (be everything to everybody) :P
<crdlb> oops
<crdlb> impossible*
<crdlb> way to completely change the meaning...
<posingaspopular> hey all, does anyone know what kernel fiesty is running?
<posingaspopular> hardy*
<DarkMageZ> posingaspopular, 2.6.22 or 2.6.24 depending on when you last updated.
<posingaspopular> okay. as long as it 2.6+ i  know how to run it in a VM
<posingaspopular> thanks DarkMageZ
<Hobbsee> Sysinfo for 'LongPointyStick': Linux 2.6.24-2-generic running KDE 3.5.8, CPU: GenuineIntel(R)CPUT2250@1.73GHz at 1733 MHz (3458 bogomips), HD: 34/71GB, RAM: 1409/2018MB, 141 proc's, 2.45h up
<Hobbsee> ^ that
<Hobbsee> darn, i missed
<DarkMageZ> Hobbsee, only kde 3.5.8?
<Hobbsee> DarkMageZ: i'm running konvi on gnome.
<DarkMageZ> i was expecting you to be running kde 4 :p
 * DarkMageZ loads amarok 2
<Hobbsee> it's still being uplaoded every few days
 * DanaG can't install the 'kde4' metapackage.
<DanaG> It depends on kdeedu 4.something.
<bardyr> !info nvidia-glx-new
<ubotu> nvidia-glx-new: NVIDIA binary XFree86 4.x/X.Org 'new' driver. In component restricted, is optional. Version 100.14.19+2.6.22.5-14.1 (hardy), package size 4896 kB, installed size 14848 kB
<DrUnKnMuNkY> hey anyone around? my apt is totally broken. i have the output for sudo apt-get install -yf at http://pastebin.ca/824837
<crimsun> DrUnKnMuNkY: that looks like a disk or FS issue; have you tried simply --reinstall'ing?
<DrUnKnMuNkY> crimsun: not sure what you mean by that. reinstall the whole os?
<crimsun> DrUnKnMuNkY: no, apt-get --reinstall install foo, or aptitude reinstall foo, ...
<DrUnKnMuNkY> i'll give it a try
<DrUnKnMuNkY> crimsun: can't seem to get anything to work using that. i get this when i try sudo aptitude reinstall: E: I wasn't able to locate file for the x11-common package. This might mean you need to manually fix this package.
<crimsun> sudo dpkg -i /path/to/x11-common...deb
<DrUnKnMuNkY> crimsun: i got a whole long list of errors like in the pastebin log followed by: E: I wasn't able to locate file for the x11-common package. This might mean you need to manually fix this package.
<DrUnKnMuNkY> sorry wrong paste 1 sec
<DrUnKnMuNkY> this is the error at the end of that command:
<DrUnKnMuNkY> Preparing to replace x11-common 1:7.3+7ubuntu3 (using .../x11-common_1%3a7.3+8ubuntu1_i386.deb) ...
<DrUnKnMuNkY> Unpacking replacement x11-common ...
<DrUnKnMuNkY> dpkg: error processing /var/cache/apt/archives/x11-common_1%3a7.3+8ubuntu1_i386.deb (--install):
<DrUnKnMuNkY>  unable to create updated files list file for package x11-common: No such file or directory
<DrUnKnMuNkY> Errors were encountered while processing:
<DrUnKnMuNkY>  /var/cache/apt/archives/x11-common_1%3a7.3+8ubuntu1_i386.deb
<crimsun> there are parameters you can pass to dpkg to forcibly perform emergency maintenance operations
<stdin> make sure /var/lib/dpkg/info/ exists, it sounds like it's not finding it
<DrUnKnMuNkY> stdin: it doesn't seem to. just create the folder?
<stdin> yeah, give it a go
<crimsun> that really smells of a hardware or FS issue
<DrUnKnMuNkY> it seems to be going now. trying an apt-get upgrade and it seems to be going through with no trouble now
<DrUnKnMuNkY> some weird stuff in general started happening when i tried booting with the 2.6.24-1 kernel. nothing worked properly so i went back to the 2.6.22-14 kernel but strange stuff like this and wireless problems popped up
<stdin> I'd fsck the partitions for a start, directories don't just disappear for no reason
<DrUnKnMuNkY> alright i'll do that tonight. thanks for the help
<Tretle> anything benificially different between hardy and gutsy yet?
<Tm_T> more crashes!
 * Tm_T hides
<compwiz18> um... it dies faster?
<DrUnKnMuNkY> apt/various packages have broken on me pretty much daily
<DrUnKnMuNkY> wireless died yesterday
<DanaG> I allllllways make sure to read changelogs before installing updates.
<Tretle> hmmmmmm..... nothing interesting yet then
<Tretle> telepathy as default?
<DrUnKnMuNkY> hardy's more of a stability release... not as many new features as gutsy
<DanaG> Naah, I'd rather have telekinesis.
<Tretle> #lol
<Tretle> hmmmm... what about the theme?
<DrUnKnMuNkY> no idea.. mine's completely changed from the default
 * DanaG hasn't had apport offer any bug reports in over 6 months, despite having had plenty of crashes over that period.
<DanaG> Heh, one would think a site about avant-window-navigator would work properly in Firefox.
<DanaG> http://awn.wetpaint.com/page/Thunderbird+extension
<DanaG> But nope.
<LimCore> ubuntu is fucking annoying
<LimCore> yet there is an easy way to fix it, how about it?
<stdin> !language | LimCore
<ubotu> LimCore: Please watch your language and topic to help keep this channel family friendly.
<LimCore> (disable PC speaker making %^&*( sounds from UI and from bash)
<DanaG> blacklist pcspkr.
<DanaG> That's how you disable that beep.
<david__> hello
<david__> any one have web server
<david__> can help me
<Richie> ask the question, if someone knows they'll reply
<david__> i do apache when i do http://localhst is working
<david__> i do port 80 on the linux server
<david__> know what i need to do
<david__> my domin name is
<david__> davidtanti.com
<Richie> wel that depends, you can install php and mysql or you can just leave it as it is and put your webfiles in ya web root folder
<david__> yes but why when i do www.davidtanti.com is not go to web page
<david__> when i do www.davidtanti.com i go to my cisco router
<Richie>  its gone to the webpage for me
<david__> you test from your site
<Richie> Apache/2.2.4 (Ubuntu) Server at davidtanti.com Port 80
<david__> yes right
<Richie> domain works fine for me
<david__> if you go to browser what do you have
<Richie> Index of /
<Richie> [ICO]	Name	Last modified	Size	Description
<Richie> [DIR]	apache2-default/	20-Nov-2004 21:16 	-
<Richie> Apache/2.2.4 (Ubuntu) Server at davidtanti.com Port 80
<david__> i see
<david__> why i cant see from my site riche
<david__> if i go to my web browsere i cant see it
<david__> it ask me to lock to my cisco router
<Richie> im not sure if it might be because your on the network of the router
<Richie> im not sure how cisco routers work
<Richie> but perhaps accessing port 80 locally points to the router?
<pwnguin> how do i figure out why a package won't upgrade?
<Richie> not sure if its the right way but...
<Richie> i do sudo apt-get install <package name>
<Richie> and it will tell you wht
<pwnguin>   nvidia-glx-new: Depends: xserver-xorg-core (>= 1:0.99.0-1) but it is not going to be installed
<pwnguin> im pretty sure i have a version newer than that
<Richie> yeh you probably do...it is the same for me...but its happened for many packages...not sure why it does but it will let you update sooner or later
<pwnguin> i guess its being worked on
<pwnguin> bug 177609
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 177609 in linux-restricted-modules-2.6.24 "nvidia-glx won't upgrade" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/177609
<Richie> im not updating my kernel until thats sorted out either way
<pwnguin> meh
<pwnguin> it works
<pwnguin> just isnt the latest
<pwnguin> 10170 frames in 5.0 seconds = 2033.807 FPS
<pwnguin> Linux jldugger-laptop 2.6.24-2-generic #1 SMP Fri Dec 14 00:02:38 GMT 2007 i686 GNU/Linux
<david__> mmm
<david__> my problem is that when i do www.davidtanti.com is go to my router ask me for user name and password of router
<ActySofts> hello
<ActySofts> is there any chance of getting OSSv4 in hardy?
<ActySofts> maybe as a question by the installer, whether to install OSS or ALSA (for advanced users)
<ActySofts> well? is anybody alive here?
<pvandewyngaerde> no
<Richie> im dead too
<ActySofts> I see
<ActySofts> :P
<david__> hello frends i am var www i need to delate a folder but i cant have the permasion what can i do
<david__> i need to remove the apache logo to put my
<david__>  any one can help
<Richie> you could type sudo nautilus to give the file browser root powers
<Richie> or type chown <username> /var/www to make you there owner
<theunixgeek> Personally, this is my favorite theme design: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Hardy/Alternate/Ubuntu_new
<Le-Chuck_ITA> hi there, I have the following in /etc/apt/preferences:  http://pastebin.com/m5c669 , but no matter whatever change I do, when I do apt-get update; apt-get dist-upgrade apt wants to upgrade my whole system
<Le-Chuck_ITA> I just want to keep the hardy source to install the new kernel and test it when I am asked to from bug reports
<Le-Chuck_ITA> ok I did that :)
<stone-unix> is  it the day for alpha 2?
<bardyr> happy alpha2 release day :)
<bardyr> !info nvidia-glx-new
<ubotu> nvidia-glx-new: NVIDIA binary XFree86 4.x/X.Org 'new' driver. In component restricted, is optional. Version 100.14.19+2.6.22.5-14.1 (hardy), package size 4896 kB, installed size 14848 kB
<bardyr> any ETA on the alpha 2 images?
<chowmeined> alpha 2 released yet?
<atoponce> hardy is not an lts release?
<atoponce> or is this just kubuntu?
<nalioth> atoponce: ?
<atoponce> nalioth: -ops
<Pici> So, kubuntu 8.04 will not be LTS.  Discuss.
<atoponce> where does that put those who are running 6.06?
<atoponce> will they be out of support until the next lts?
<Pici> "Users currently running Kubuntu 6.06 will be able to upgrade through
<Pici> the usual path to Kubuntu 8.04, keeping to the KDE 3.5 release series,
<Pici> and will receive the usual 18 months of support for that
<Pici> release."
<crdlb> well you'll at least get the next year
<Pici> !paste > Pici
<atoponce> ahh. yeah. that makes sense. so they'll get 18 months.
<atoponce> that should be enough then to get them to the lts
<Pici> Well.. That is if 8.10 is LTS.
<Pici> or 9.04
<tonyyarusso> Pici: Presumably though if they run LTS, they don't WANT 18 month releases...
<Pici> tonyyarusso: I agree 100%
<crdlb> I really doubt kubuntu 8.10 would be
<Pici> I hope Kubuntu won't move out of sync permanently with regards to LTS releases
<atoponce> i thought canonical backed the kubuntu project. is this not the case?
<tonyyarusso> Wouldn't it have made more sense to leave KDE4 stuff in universe or whatever, make it an LTS, and then have KDE4 the only option but more solid and default for Hardy+1, like we normally do such things?
<atoponce> or is the decision to not make kubuntu 8.04 lts based on kde 4
<tonyyarusso> atoponce: perhaps - it also looked at one time like they were going to be on track to more officially get behind Xubuntu, but now are backing away from that
<Pici> atoponce: Looks like its kde4 thats pushing them to not make it LTS.
<atoponce> don't know if i like that decision
<tonyyarusso> If users have the option of 3.5 or 4, in some separated fashion, shouldn't 3.5 users still be considered an LTS?
 * tonyyarusso is a Gnome user, but this is weird
<Pici> Although... What exactly differentiates an Ubuntu 8.04 system with kubuntu-desktop installed with a Kubuntu 8.04 system?  (besides one also having gnome)?
<atoponce> Pici: well, that's my question
<tonyyarusso> I'm sure it would make things like phone support a lot harder for those who have contracts, but things like security updates should be the same.
<atoponce> if i install ubuntu-desktop for 8.04, i get the lts, but what happens when i install kubuntu-desktop for 8.04?
<atoponce> on the same system, that is?
<somerville32> woogles.
<tonyyarusso> somerville32: Seems your "inherently makes" assumption is wrong this time
<tonyyarusso> atoponce: "that voids your warranty - you shouldn't have removed the sticker"
<atoponce> heh
<atoponce> seriously though. are they going to just support certain packages?
<atoponce> this is all too confusing
<nixternal> yo
<atoponce> yo
<somerville32> tonyyarusso, Although Canonical might not be investing efforts to maintain Kubuntu as an LTS, they archive will still be "open" for ubuntu.
<nixternal> Kubuntu 8.04 will not be LTS, Ubuntu 8.04 will be
<enyc> nixternal: interesting
<atoponce> nixternal: right. so what happens if i install ubuntu-desktop and kubuntu-desktop on the same machine?
<Pici> nixternal: What about Ubuntu with kubuntu-desktop installed? Or whatever the 8.04 metapackage will be called?
<atoponce> do i have lts or not?
<tonyyarusso> nixternal: we're trying to figure out how that doesn't just drop Kubuntu users on their face
<somerville32> Pici, Canonical doesn't support all packages in main
<atoponce> so many questions. :)
 * Pici picks up jaw from floor
<nixternal> I don't do the support stuff, so that is up to Canonical to decide what they will do in those instances
<tonyyarusso> Why are you non-LTS even if you install the 3.5 option?
<nixternal> remember that LTS is ONLY SECURITY FIXES!
<atoponce> right
<atoponce> that's all it is after freeze
<atoponce> lts or not, no?
<tonyyarusso> and SRU stuff for other major bugs
<nixternal> if a security issue arises with KDE 3.5, you can be safe in assuming it will get fixed
<nixternal> but for crash bugs and what not, that is a different story
<somerville32> Kubuntu might not get the LTS label but it'll still be possible to treat it as a LTS because Kubuntu shares the same repository as Ubuntu
<Pici> I echo somerville32 but add a ? at the end
<atoponce> i'm not a kde user, but i can't help but think most would rather wait on kde4 for 8.10 and get lts in 8.04. maybe not though.
<somerville32> If they're still uploading to the hardy archives, they're not going to say "Oh sorry, we're not going to let you upload that security fix because that package has the letter K in it" :P
<somerville32> So, who is saying Kubuntu isn't an LTS? The Kubuntu CC or Canonical?
<nixternal> atoponce: if Kubuntu did that, then we would be light years behind the rest of the KDE distributions
 * Pici tries to put all the worms back in the can
<Yorokobi> nixternal, what about putting KDE4 into a seperate repository for 8.04 (ie, hardy-backports)
<atoponce> nixternal: true. so would it be possible to push lts to 8.10 then?
<tonyyarusso> nixternal: meanwhile, what's up with your blog?
<Pici> I think we killed it
<nixternal> Yorokobi: even then, with the limited amount of Kubuntu developers, we would still be light years behind
<hydrogen> euhm
<hydrogen> I sure hope that kde4 isn't default for 8.04
 * hydrogen just came in
<somerville32> nixternal, So, who is saying Kubuntu isn't an LTS? The Kubuntu CC or Canonical?
<nixternal> I am sure that Canonical did some testing and communicated with their partners, clients, and customers before reaching such a decision
<nixternal> the decision was made by them, not Kubuntu
<nixternal> Canonical/Technical Board supposedly made the decision
<atoponce> nixternal: who has kde4 now? is it even released?
<nixternal> 22 days
<nixternal> everyone
<atoponce> only the rolling distro though, like gentoo or foresight. fedora will be behind, as will the other frozen distros
<atoponce> so technically, kubuntu wouldn't be that far behind
<atoponce> it just wouldn't be first
<somerville32> nixternal, Does the Kubuntu CC want it to be an LTS?
<nixternal> somerville32: we just got the news today, we haven't even had the chance to decypher everything
<nixternal> we would consider the 3.5 release as an LTS
<nixternal> but we wouldn't be able to push to both unless we had the support that Ubuntu has
<somerville32> nixternal, Because really, The Kubuntu CC could declare it LTS themselves if they were willing to take up the responsibilities involved.
<nixternal> the funny thing is this, when we said we weren't going to do it, people complained, now that we say we are doing it, people complain
<Pici> I dont know if they have the ability to do that
<nixternal> thank you Pici
<Yorokobi> nixternal, yeah, but different people are complaining now :)
<Pici> Heck, we dont even use KDE.
<nixternal> that's life
 * Yorokobi left the Live-on-the-bleeding-edge camp some time ago
<atoponce> i'm not complaining, just curious about all the arguments
<nixternal> Kubuntu has been the "Live-on-the-bleeding-edge" distro for quite some time now, nothing new, except that the possibility of no 3 year support
<nixternal> but let me ask you, who is still using Kubuntu Dapper right now?
<Yorokobi> Me
<nixternal> why?
<nixternal> why not use Edgy? Feisty? Gutsy?
<tonyyarusso> I'm more vastly confused than complaining.
<Yorokobi> Gutsy caused the HDDs to park heads all the time, Feisty and Edgy don't have problems. I would answer "Why not?" Dapper works for me.
<atoponce> tonyyarusso: it's simple. run gnome, and you needent worry. :)
 * atoponce adornes his flame retardant suit
<tonyyarusso> atoponce: That's what I do, actually.  Still though.
<atoponce> :)
 * nalioth runs enlightenment-cvs-dr17
<anonymous3420> Apparently alpha 2 was supposed to be released today
<anonymous3420> i cant find it
<Centaur5> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HardyHeron/Alpha2
<askand> Will hardy have firefox 3 as default?
<kaur> Is there already a working download link for alpha 2 somewhere?
<pps> nothing on cdimage.ubuntu.com
<askand> Will hardy have catalyst 7.11?
<theunixgeek> When's alpha 2 coming? :(
<theunixgeek> It should've been out today! :(
<askand> theunixgeek:  maybe it is delayed :)
<theunixgeek> askand: it is!?
<theunixgeek> nooo!!!!!
<askand> theunixgeek: I have no idea...has been before might be again
<theunixgeek> drat
<conn> hi, has anyone noticed that gtk/gnome apps have become quite sluggish lately, especially noticeable when opening menu items? It's present on intel and nvidia graphics, so it doesn't seem to be a driver issue
#ubuntu+1 2007-12-21
<EvanCarroll> will heron have perl5.10?
<h3sp4wn> EvanCarroll: Unlikely
<Tomcat_> EvanCarroll: Quite unlikely, yes... it currently has 5.8.8 and we're beyond repo freeze.
<Tomcat_> EvanCarroll: Also, hardy is an LTS release; Perl 5.10 has been out for two days. I wouldn't consider that stable. ;P
<bigdog_> any ETA on alpha2  ?  No problem if it is delayed, just trying to block out time for an intall.
<bigdog_> s/install
<tonyyarusso> Usually if an alpha gets delayed it will be one or two days; anything more than three would be easier to just skip that one.
<onechard> anyone with problems with forcedeth after latest kernel update
<bigdog_> tonyyarusso: Thanks,  Looks like I will work on my wife's todo list tonight :-)
<tumbleweed__> latest kernel update screwed everything up for me
<tumbleweed__> can't even logon unless I use the single option in grub, and that logs me on a root with no daemons
<tretle> hey
<tretle> can anyone tell me if the desktop effects is broken?
<tonyyarusso> Well, it is for me, but that's been the case since the concept was first thought up ;)
<tonyyarusso> (yay ati.....)
<infinitycircuit> tretle, it depends on your graphics card...it works fine for me here with an nvidia geforce 5200
<tretle> i have 7600gs
<tretle> and when i try and enable it asks to fix broken packages first
<tretle> Could not apply changes!
<tretle> Fix broken packages first
<tretle> to be exact
<tretle> thats when i try and enable the restricted driver
<infinitycircuit> what is the result of "sudo apt-get install -f" followed by a reboot
<infinitycircuit> and a dist-upgrade
<tretle> and when i try and fix them in synaptic it doesnt do anything
<tretle> wait and i'll check
<tretle> bbs
<tretle> hey
<tretle> what did u mean by the dist upgrade after the reboot?
<tretle> brb
<tretle> yeah that did nothing
<tretle> if its any help when i upgraded to hardy I was missing apps like firefox
<tretle> and evrything openoffice bar word preocessor
<infinitycircuit> tretle, i meant "sudo apt-get dist-upgrade"
<tretle> yeah
<tretle> I remembered the command
<infinitycircuit> tretle, and if it gives an error message could you pastebin it
<tretle> havnt used ubuntu in awhile
<tretle> it just give a success log for both
<tretle> the done, done done, 0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 remove and 0 not upgraded
<infinitycircuit> tretle, so it only gives the error when you try to install the restricted drivers
<tretle> yep
<tretle> synaptic runs without giving the error
<infinitycircuit> tretle, oh i see now the glx packages are on hold
<infinitycircuit> tretle, because of the new kernel
<infinitycircuit> tretle, i think your problem will get resolved in a few days
<tretle> oh cool
<tretle> what about firefox and openoffice uninstalling when i upgraded to hardy
<tretle> common problem?
<infinitycircuit> tretle, that was related to a missing library for apt which got fixed a couple of days ago
<infinitycircuit> tretle, if you try reinstalling ubuntu-desktop that should fix the problem, or you can manually reinstall the missing packages
<tretle> what exatly got uninstalled so i may reinstall them?
<infinitycircuit> tretle, i don't know sorry
<tretle> what command for reinstall ubuntu desktop?
<voidmage> aptitude reinstall ubuntu-desktop?
<tretle> i just installed and upgraded to hardy a few hours ago
<infinitycircuit> one sec
<tretle> cool
<tretle> lol.... by the way I think the linux kernel update is out :D
<tretle> restart
<tretle> brb
<tretle> back
<tretle> any idea as to when the gtk transparency plugins might make it to hardy?
<telexicon> release party
<bigdog_> telexicon: Is Alpha 2 done?
 * bigdog_   .... checking web site
<bigdog_> :-(
<bigdog_> release party false alarm....
 * telexicon checks email
<telexicon> i shouldve put up a ??
<bigdog_> ahhh, that is fair
 * Pici wonders why alpha 2 release is so important
<Pici> Well.. I guess since its an actual CD image... /me stops talking to himself
 * DanaG has no audio when wine-ing WoW.
<bazhang> wine has broken several individuals' audio iirc
 * Hobbsee would suggest cycling thru the various wine audio options, and seeing if any of those work first, *before* coming in here adn saying it's broken
<bazhang> not me, just reporting others in response to poster above
<DanaG> I've tried ALSA, OSS, and ESD.
<DanaG> Oh, and I'm using PulseAudio.
<DanaG> That's probably part of it -- but even using pasuspender and oss doesn't work.
<h3sp4wn> Try oss4 then you don't need any of that anyway
<DanaG> oss4?
<DanaG> And will it work with PulseAudio?
<DanaG> I DO need pulseaudio, due to having multiple sound devices.
<Hobbsee> WFM
<DanaG> wfm?
<Hobbsee> works for me
<tumbleweed__> ok
<tumbleweed__> how do I convince hardy that I have a laptop
<DanaG> WOW with Wine with PulseAudio?
<tumbleweed__> I'm not allowed to acces the trashcan, and dbus is borked
<tumbleweed__> ;/
<tumbleweed__> also, no power monitoring
<tumbleweed__> [   18.856001] ACPI: Looking for DSDT in initramfs... error, file /DSDT.aml not found.
<tumbleweed__> that was in dmesg
<crimsun> DanaG: what does wine do in the presence of solely ALSA?
<tumbleweed__> [   21.058968] /build/buildd/linux-source-2.6.22-2.6.22/drivers/rtc/hctosys.c: unable to open rtc device (rtc0)
<Hobbsee> DanaG: i think so, yes.
<Hobbsee> DanaG: it's the deafults, i think pulse got used as default
<DanaG> Hmm, even without PulseAudio, Wine ALSA is silent for WoW.
<tumbleweed__> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/49118/ <--- probably explains why my multimedia keys aren't working
<crimsun> DanaG: and using Wine OSS with ALSA's OSS emulation?
<DanaG> Yeah, I think so.
<DanaG> yup.
<crimsun> is it particular to Wine, or is all audio borked?
<DanaG> It's just WoW, actually.
<IdleOne> why does my terminal icon oj my panel have a $ sign in it
<IdleOne> ?
<IdleOne> s/oj/on
<taggie> does anybody know what's going on with ati(fglrx) support in hardy? I've got two machines with radeon mobility cards (a firegl5200 and X1400) and neither is able to do anything with accellerated graphics. only Vesa or fbdev works
<DarkMageZ> taggie, works here on ati 9600se. odd.
<taggie> darkmagez, you're using fglrx? if so, did you have to manually add it? gutsy used to jump up and down and make me use the restricted driver mgr. i don't even see that in hardy
<DarkMageZ> i can switch between ati & fglrx by using the restricted drivers manager. atm i'm on ati due to a minor glitch in fglrx.
<DarkMageZ> i don't know why restricted-driver-manager isn't detecting your x1400 tho
<taggie> interesting, i just checked synaptic and restricted driver manager wasn't installed by default. must be a new hardy thing
<DarkMageZ> should have been installed by default :S
<taggie> i installed it, and now it says the ati is checked enabled but in the status column says "not in use" same goes for my ipw3495
<taggie> strange and wonderful things alphas are :)
<bazhang> 3945 does not work for you?
<Hobbsee> who? me?
<bazhang> ah no, sorry Hobbsee; I was referring to taggie
<Hobbsee> ahh
<Hobbsee> mine does, but has no LED
<bazhang> odd.
 * Hobbsee found the bug
<Dan> broken heron lol
<pvandewyngaerde> what broke ?
<Dan> gdm
<Dan> must have been after the last batch of updates
<Dan>  /etc/gdm/failsafeXServer: line 47: [:too many arguments
<Dan> i'll have a fiddle
<tobias> hi! i just upgraded to 2.6.24 and installed iwl3945 uCode to get my intel-wireless card running. Hibernation/Suspend finally work! But after waking up, my WiFi card is gone. ifconfig eth1 up is no use. Any tipp how to proceed? Thank you!
<bardyr> any news about alpha 2
<bardyr> ?
<pvandewyngaerde> tobias:  is there a Wifi light, so that you can see it is on ?
<tobias> pvandewyngaerde: Yes, there is. It is running & manual network-overview shows that it is there. But NetWorkMananger doesn't seem to care. Restarting dbus helps... sort of... How could I automate restarting network-manager on wake-up?
<Areli1> Will Hardy Heron be based on Debian Etch?
<bardyr> Areli1, no unstable
<hit> still no alpha 2?
<bardyr> hit, nope
<hit> :/
<bardyr> im waiting too :/
<hit> my alpha 1 still keeps freezing
<bardyr> hmm so did mine
<bardyr> but gutsy did  it more
<hit> not anymore?
<bardyr> switched to feisty
<hit> gutsy was fine for me, no freezes at all
<hit> now processes keep running but screen locks up or smth
<bardyr> im hoping with the new X and kernel it should be fixed
<hit> i can move cursor tho
<bardyr> i cant even move the cursor
<hit> i've noticed that there is more freezes when running firefox
<Areli1> bardyr: you mean above Etch?
<hit> and just then when switching from one window to another
<bardyr> Areli1, yea they merge SID
<Areli1> bardyr: alright. And what is Gutsy based on?
<bardyr> Areli1, SID
<bardyr> Areli1, http://www.debian.org/releases/unstable/
<Areli1> bardyr: Sarge?
<Areli1> I mean, from the time before or after sarge?
<bardyr> after
<Areli1> before or after Etch?
<bardyr> after but i think Etch was released before
<bardyr> Areli1, read http://www.debian.org/releases/unstable/
<cypherdelic> What about NVidia 169.07 and restricted-modules-generic and nvidia-glx-new, will it be updated soon???
<bardyr> cypherdelic, all restricted modules are going to be compiled against the latest kernel but im not sure about the new nvidia driver
<bardyr> !info nvidia-glx-new
<ubotu> nvidia-glx-new: NVIDIA binary XFree86 4.x/X.Org 'new' driver. In component restricted, is optional. Version 100.14.19+2.6.24.2-2.7 (hardy), package size 4896 kB, installed size 14844 kB
<cypherdelic> this is current
<cypherdelic> but it has bad dependencies
<cypherdelic> requieres xserver-xorg-core (1:0.99.0-1)
<cypherdelic> when i try to install nvidia-glx-new synaptic wants to remove xserver
<bardyr> hmm
<bardyr> !info xserver-xorg-core
<ubotu> xserver-xorg-core: Xorg X server - core server. In component main, is optional. Version 2:1.4.1~git20071212-1ubuntu2 (hardy), package size 3982 kB, installed size 10904 kB
<kaur> any news about alpha2
<kaur> ?
<bardyr> nope
<dholbach> MOTU Q&A session in 11 minutes in #ubuntu-classroom
<bsm> hi, anyone installed kernel 2.6.24 with a core 2 duo? Are you too having about 1000 wackeups ( powertop ) by "rescheduling interrupts"?
<bsm> i disabled dual core now and am at ~50wakeups
<bsm> as it should be
<Pici> bsm: I'm getting ~500/5sec on AC power and wifi.
<bsm> pici thats also a lot... who is causing them?
<Pici> mpd, firefox-bin
<Mohero> Hi all.
<bardyr> any news on alpha2?
<bsm> pici thats a different problem
<Pici> bsm: I'm ssh'ed in right now so I can't unplug and or do any testing.
<Pici> bsm: Rescheduling Interupts are 3rd on the list
<Mohero> I have a question regarding bug "132877" which I reported back in September, regarding the USPLASH on GeForce 8 series cards, my monitor still goes out of sync when booting (which is quite frustrating) so I don't know if it's booting or not, the bug is still classed as NEW, I just really want to know if anything is ever going to happen with it, as it was in the Alpha Gutsy releases that I reported it (when I got my new 8 Series card)
<Pici> bug 132877
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 132877 in ubuntu "Gforce 8 series screen blanks "out of sync" during usplash boot" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/132877
<Mohero> yep, that one, has any of the developers even looked at it? as there's no signs of it at the moment...
<bsm> Mohero: mine gets out of sync when I stop kdm... yours is right from the start out of sync?
<Mohero> yes, after Grub, during the boot process.
<Mohero> when X comes up, the monitor comes up again.
<bsm> did you try disabling splash? :)
<Mohero> so it's only during the Usplash, and also while shutting down.
<Pici> Mohero: Have you tried changing your framebuffer modes?
<Pici> !fb
<ubotu> Information about changing your framebuffer modes in GRUB can be found at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FrameBuffer#grub
<Mohero> yes, disabling the splash I can "see" the boot process, but it would be nice to have usplash working.
<Pici> Nono, I mean setting a new vga=something mode.
<Mohero> Pici: no I haven't. I'll have a go at this when I get home, but as it doesn't work and the monitor goes out of sync, and I'm not the only one that has the problem, and out of the box it has the problem, i'd still class it as a bug ;) though I'll let you knwo the results of thanging the FB from Grub.
<Mohero> I come from a Gentoo background, so I should be familiar with setting that up, maybe I should try a Gentoo install to work out what's going on, and if it's a problem with the FrameBuffer Driver for the NVidia Cards.
<Pici> Mohero: I think that the bug might be duplicate, because I have heard of the issue before /me looks
<Le-Chuck_ITA> hi there
<Le-Chuck_ITA> I am running hardy
<Pici> Hi there, so am I
<Le-Chuck_ITA> synaptics touchpad is not working and.... *aaargh* where is the Xorg configuration file :)?
<Le-Chuck_ITA> There is no synaptics in logs so I think I should enable it somewhere but not in /etc/X11/xorg.conf it seems
<Le-Chuck_ITA> also for the tablet, how does one enable input devices in xorg, with this new infrastructure I heard about
<Mohero> Le-Chuck_ITA: the Xorg Config file is in /etc/X11/xorg.conf
<Le-Chuck_ITA> I have no such
<Le-Chuck_ITA> really I am not joking
<Mohero> really.? hold on.
<bsm> you are running X, are you?
<Le-Chuck_ITA> yes!
<bsm> :D
<Le-Chuck_ITA> I heard about this new configless X infrastructure
<Le-Chuck_ITA> but I don't know, may be I can just copy my old config file and X will use that
<Le-Chuck_ITA> but you all really have xorg.conf in hardy? If so, that's strange
<Mohero> it still uses xorg.conf, it just uses some defaults, so if it breaks then it will still boot.
<Mohero> i'm just booting my laptop and i'll tell you.
<Mohero> :)
<Pici> I have one, but I dont know if its using it
<bardyr> Le-Chuck_ITA, just make and xorg.conf file
<Le-Chuck_ITA>  sudo dpkg-reconfigure -plow xserver-xorg
<Le-Chuck_ITA> md5sum: /etc/X11/xorg.conf: No such file or directory
<Le-Chuck_ITA> eheh
<Mohero> I'm sure mine is in use, I know I've edited it on my home desktop, for my multi-screen Nvidia setup, something that the GUI's aren't too clever at setting up :)
<Pici> Le-Chuck_ITA: How about without -plow
<Le-Chuck_ITA> did that
<Le-Chuck_ITA> you see
<Le-Chuck_ITA> I did not "sudo X :1 -configure"
<Le-Chuck_ITA> so that I can copy the file
<Le-Chuck_ITA> however that's strange
<Le-Chuck_ITA> what component should be responsible of configuring touchpad?
<Le-Chuck_ITA> I mean "i did now"
<Le-Chuck_ITA> ok logging out and in again
<Mohero> Le-Chuck_ITA: Section "InputDevice"
<Mohero> Identifier  "Synaptics Touchpad"
<Mohero> Driver      "Synaptics"
<Mohero> Option      "SendCoreEvents"    "True"
<Mohero> Option      "Device"    "/dev/psaux"
<Mohero> Option      "Protocal"  "auto-dev"
<Mohero> Option      "HorizScrollDelta"    "0"
<Mohero> End Section
<bsm> too late ^^
<Mohero> d'oh
<Mohero> :)
<EvanCarroll> Tomcat_: perl 5.10 has been in beta for 2years. I would consider it stable =(
<EvanCarroll> Darn that stinks =[ was hoping to see 5.10
<Pici> EvanCarroll: In an LTS?
<bigdog_> any ETA for alpha 2?  Is it targeted for today, or will it need to slip until next year?
<bardyr> hopefully not
<bigdog_> bardyr: I understand if it slips,  It is software :-)
<bardyr> bigdog_, yea and we can always use the live builds
<bigdog_> I have a slow internet connection, and am just trying to save an upgrade step
<bigdog_> bardyr: If it goes until next year,  I will go ahead and do the two step
<Pici> Can either of you explain to me what the big deal about it actually hitting Alpha 2 is?
<Pici> Do you want ISO images? Or something specific that was a milestone for Alpha 2?
<bardyr> Pici, the first alpha with kernel 2.6.24
<bardyr> and i want and iso
<Pici> bardyr: But you can install alpha 1 and upgrade.
<bardyr> yea but too lazy
<bigdog_> Pici:  I am looking to install studio on an  AMD 790FX motherboard, so I am looking for the latest and greatest with a minimal download (one iso)
<Pici> Okay, just curious.
<bigdog_> Pici: I don't really want to go through two downloads for a new install
<bigdog_> Pici: If I was currently running Alpha 1, it would not be such a big deal to me
<EvanCarroll> Pici: yes, more so because it is lts.
<EvanCarroll> who wants to use software that is needing update now, in 5yrs.
<Pici> Is it still beta now?
<EvanCarroll> No perl 5.10 was released on ?wed?. It is considered stable.
<Pici> EvanCarroll: This past wednesday?
<EvanCarroll> Perl and Postgres have a pretty good trackrecord for using the word "stable". Postgres is in beta3, it will probably be released soonish too. Perl 5.10 is the first version with additional features in 5yrs.
<EvanCarroll> Pici: yes.
<EvanCarroll> Pg is comming upon 8.3 which will have the first significant improvements since 8.0, including Full-Text-Search, and Perl 5.10 includes neat things like switch statements, state variables, and better threading supporting, it also has a smaller memmory footprint, and a quicker execution because of the removal of cruft
<Mohero> Hi, again Pici: did you find out if my bug (132877) about the monitor going out of sync is duplicated?
<Pici> Mohero: I didnt.
<EvanCarroll> Pg 8.3 really has too much stuff to name but it remains unseen when it will be declaired stable before the last call date of Jan or whenever it is
<Mohero> Pici: ok, if you hear anything, just let me know. or if you could link my bug if you notice that would be appreciated. :)
<telexicon> release party time
#ubuntu+1 2007-12-22
<Pici> You're about 4 months eary.
<telexicon> the alpha 2 release...
<Pici> oh
<telexicon> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases/hardy/alpha-2/
<telexicon> its up
<DarkMageZ> it's not ready... it lacks the latest fglrx & nvidia drivers :(
<DanaG> Fontconfig warning: "/etc/fonts/conf.d/100-legacy-subpixel.conf", line 5: invalid constant used : legacy
<DanaG> gaack, does that mean I won't be able to use the legacy LCD filter?
<tim> Hi how do i install nvidia driver for Kubuntu in 8.04 ??
<h3sp4wn> tim: There is a few different ways how you could - some more effort than others
<tim> what is the easiest way?
<tim> how do i do it?
<tim> ??
<h3sp4wn> No interest in that way - use the nvidia.com installer same as it always is
<tim> What driver i download for geforce fx5700le driver ?
<tim> How do i install package NVIDIA-Linux-x86-169.07-pkg1.run ?
<void^> (why are you running 8.04?)
<tim> You appear to be running an X server; please exit X before
<tim>          installing.  For further details, please see the section INSTALLING
<tim>          THE NVIDIA DRIVER in the README available on the Linux driver
<tim>          download page at www.nvidia.com.
<tim> Do u guys have the some problems installing nvidia driver In kubuntu as me??
<tim> Do u guys have the some problems installing nvidia driver In kubuntu 8.04 as me??
<Hobbsee> tim: you don't want to run hardy
<tim> why ?
<tim> any one here?
<tim> any livign ppl here?
<DanaG> Fontconfig warning: "/etc/fonts/conf.d/100-legacy-subpixel.conf", line 5: invalid constant used : legacy
<bigdog> congratulations to the team for releasing alpha2
<bigdog> thank you for your efforts
<bigdog> especially in the holiday season
<tim> ae u real ?
<DanaG> Gaack, that fontconfig thing is a big regression.  Now my fonts look all cleartype-ey.
<DanaG> oh wait, I was looking at Firefox.  Firefox has always looked crappy.
<tim> So how do i install nvidia driver in alpha 2?
<tim> eh ?
<telexicon> you dont
<telexicon> its impossible
<tim> or is it?
<tim> what about this article ??? http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=945&num=1
<tim> How what do u say about that ??!!
<tim> u giveu p now?
<tim> u afk ?
<telexicon> yeh
<telexicon> i give up
<bderrly> yay
<bderrly> he left
<telexicon> xD
<DanaG> Anyway, nvidia on 2.6.24 IS possible..... it's just a really hideous hack.
<DanaG> You have to edit the nvidia source files to #undef CONFIG_PARAVIRT_OPS (I think it is) before the imports.
 * telexicon hopes nouveau will come out with something usable soon
<bderrly> what was changed in the kernel that makes the nvidia driver such a pain?
<telexicon> is madwifi working in this kernel? I wasnt able to compile it myself for .24 a few weeks ago
<tim> Hi how do I upgrade kernel to 2.6.24 in stable ubuntu ?
<hydrogen> you don't/.
<tim> plz tell me how do i do it?
<tim> plz tell me how do i do it?
<IdleOne> do what?
<tim> Hi how do I upgrade kernel to 2.6.24 in stable ubunt
<IdleOne> download the deb and install it I guess
<tim> plz help me to find it
<IdleOne> look here packages.ubuntu.com/hardy/newpkg_main
<hydrogen> err
<hydrogen> thats very likely
<hydrogen> to cause a horribly broken system
<IdleOne> tim: you can try installing that kernel but if you are installing it on a previous version of ubuntu you probably will break your system bad like hydrogen said
<IdleOne> !info webfs
<ubotu> webfs: lightweight http server for static content. In component universe, is optional. Version 1.21-5 (hardy), package size 45 kB, installed size 164 kB
 * BaD-Laptop looks at the topic and tries to find the "discussion" in here...
<DanaG> gaack, why does Firefox's font rendering suck so badly?
<DanaG> And why is the 'legacy' LCD filter no longer working?
<DanaG> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/fontconfig/+bug/159434
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 159434 in libcairo "Unable to set legacy subpixel rendering" [Undecided,Invalid]
<assasukasse> hi everyone
<assasukasse> i noticed that sl modem source doesn't compile
<assasukasse> either using the gutsy or the hardy version
<assasukasse> i also read there are a few miles long bugs from tribe 2...
<assasukasse> seems that the package maintainer is not caring at all
<assasukasse> would you please remove him from his task and put someone else?^
<assasukasse> he might be busy at the moment with other things.
<assasukasse> i consider MUCH more important to be able to connect by modem in emergencies than to have all those bullshit of moving jello compiz winodws..
<assasukasse> i think is needed to really think what is important and what is superfluos
<DarkMageZ> assasukasse, which package?
<assasukasse> sl-modem-source
<stdin> assasukasse: what makes you think it won't compile?
<assasukasse> itsimply doesnt
<DarkMageZ> any particular error output?
<assasukasse> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/sl-modem/+bug/103072/+viewstatus
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 103072 in sl-modem "[Feisty & Gutsy Tribe] sl-modem module doesn't compile" [Medium,Confirmed]
<assasukasse> this one the same exactly
<DarkMageZ> you poor linmodem users... even worse you poor dial-up users... i don't think any of the ubuntu dev's particularly care about dial-up. feel free to write a patch tho.
<sigma_> will hardy support creative 5.1 soundcards?
<vincenz> I am having issues upgrading from feisty to gutsy
<Hobbsee> vincenz: and trouble reading the /topic, it apperas
<rothchild> vincenz: you need #ubuntu
<vincenz> oh
<vincenz> whoops
<michalski> ubuntu+1 is for the new beta were making
 * vincenz nods
<bazhang> alpha actually
<tumbleweed__> The World Is On Fire (8:21)
<tumbleweed__> by Strawberry Alarm Clock
<tumbleweed__> Incense and Peppermints - Track 01
<hydrogen> that is kind of annoying.
<bazhang> sure is
<Pici> hm?
<bazhang> music spam
<Arelis> Is it safe to use packages from Hardy on Gutsy? like xmonad and "awesome"
<hydrogen> no
<pvandewyngaerde> its not safe to use a computer
<Arelis> hydrogen: not a single package?
<Arelis> (not the repo's)
<hydrogen> no
<hydrogen> the entire reason there is a hardy
<hydrogen> is because
<hydrogen> the packages are not safe to put into gutsy
<hydrogen> due to changes in the toolchain
<Arelis> hmm.. and i almost installed xmonad from there.
<Lilacor> hi folks
<Lilacor> how do I add another HDD to make it be my cache without LVM?
<Lilacor> I've filled up my 4GB partition and I added another 8GB but I'm not using LVM so I can't dynamically increase the root partition.... :(
<Dan> is alpha 2 available?
<Dan> nvm, found it
<tumbleweed__> I'm having problems with dbus
<tumbleweed__> it says it's already started, but apps that depend on it are acting wonky, like the trash
<tumbleweed__> tumbleweed@tumbleweed:~$ update-manager -d
<tumbleweed__> warning: could not initiate dbus
<tumbleweed__> Failed to connect to the Trash: Failed to connect to socjet /tmp/dbus-NNSZc19wEg: Connection refused
<tumbleweed__> similarly, battery monitoring and the like is also broken
<awen_> anyone else here running kubuntu hardy on a laptop?
<nickname00000> has kubuntu hardy alpha 2 kde 4.0 included?
<tumbleweed__> I am
<awen_> tumbleweed__: do your battery monitor also show 2 batteries and 2 processors (even though you only have one?)
<tumbleweed__> actually, my battery monitor is broken, and I DO have two processors :P
<tumbleweed__> nickname00000 : https://wiki.kubuntu.org/HardyHeron/Alpha2/Kubuntu#head-016b4fbb5e6c07096dc7d802c99c44af7fcbfc69
<nickname00000> thanks
<awen_> tumbleweed__: have you made a bug report about it?
<nickname00000> is it installed by default? or should I install it?
<tumbleweed__> it's installed by default
<Artimus> Is there a wiki setup or anything handling current "show stopping" Hardy issues?  Seems like it might be something kind of useful...
<tumbleweed__> awen_ : not as of yet
<nickname00000> ok thanks
<tumbleweed__> Artimus : that would be the bugs page on launchpad
<Artimus> I suppose...
<tumbleweed__> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/hardy/
<awen_> tumbleweed__: okay... is it something that just happened? my battery monitor startet acting strange within the last 2 days?
<tumbleweed__> awen_ : probably, versions of programs are changing constantly, and it's to be expected, as this is an alpha
<tumbleweed__> awen_ : I've had similar problems, it probably has to do with dbus acting funky, but I have no clue
<awen_> tumbleweed__: exactly... i'am wondering which package i should actually file a bug against
<tumbleweed__> I should think dbus, hald, or something related to battery monitoring, depending on the bug
<awen_> tumbleweed__: the funny thing is that i've got a second cpu together with the second battery (and yes, neither of them exists in real life :) )
 * tumbleweed__ shrugs
<tretle> are the nvidia drivers still being held back?
<tretle> just incase anyone was wondering.... nvidia drivers are no longer held back
<rainwalker> is there a set release when hardy's new theme will be used?
<crimsun> asking in ubuntu-artwork may yield better results.
<rainwalker> ahh, alright, thanks :)
#ubuntu+1 2007-12-23
<poningru> hmm
<poningru> I think there is something wrong with turning on the fan in my laptop after coming back up from hibernate
<poningru> as in the cpu temp goes waaay up
<poningru> but the fan doesnt kick in
<poningru> but only after I hibernate and then come out of it
<DanaG> Don't you just love broken BIOSes?
<DanaG> I've been lucky to only have the opposite problem, and only occasionally:
<DanaG> My ACPI Thermal Zone will sometimes randomly decide it's really hot, and ramp the fans way up, and stick that way until I reboot.
<poningru> hmm you think its the bios?
<poningru> oh that makes sense I guess
<poningru> whats hibernate?
<poningru> S5?
<DanaG> Or rather, the ACPI code -- what's called a "DSDT".
<DanaG> I find it odd that it'd work after hibernate -- hibernate seems mostly like shutdown, to me.
<poningru> S4
<DanaG> Somewhere the kernel must be poking something in a way that makes the fan work.
<poningru> no I think its probably the bios
<DanaG> DSDT is stored in / part of the BIOS.
<poningru> oh hmm
<DanaG> But you can override it if you can find a fixed one online.
<DanaG> You'd have to look up your system (laptop or desktop or whatever) by model number, along with the word 'ACPI'.
<poningru> yeah tried that already
<poningru> havent really found anything
<poningru> oh well not my laptop
<poningru> just the chipset
<DanaG> Dang.
<crimsun> hmph.  We seem to have a problem with the default mixer element being mislabeled in pavucontrol.
<crimsun> e.g., PCM vice Master
<DanaG> PulseAudio does odd things to my USB headset.
<DanaG> The control name in alsamixer is "Speaker".  When I try to use the gnome volume control, the left channel repeatedly drops to zero volume.
<crimsun> DanaG: what're the `lshal` and `asoundconf list` bits for your headset?
<DanaG> oh
<DanaG> asoundconf list:  "Headset"  (without quotes)
<DanaG> Which part of LSHAL?  Just name and Device ID?
<DanaG> info.product     Logitech USB Headset
<crimsun> DanaG: everything relevant to your headset.
<DanaG> I'll pastebin the whole thing, then.
<DanaG> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/49369/
<DanaG> Oddly, it shows up as a composite device with only one subdevice.
<DanaG> I guess they must make another model that uses similar chips but adds a HID device, or something.
<crimsun> unfortunately there's no SSID info
<crimsun> that's the only way that can be cross-referenced
<DanaG> SSID?
<crimsun> subsystem identifier
<DanaG> Oh yeah, another odd thing is that it shows three "USB Audio Interface" devices in hal-device-manager tree, but only one has the sound card subdevice.
<crimsun> hal just needs to be taught about it.
<DanaG> Even Windows shows it as a USB Composite Device.  Besides that cosmetic issue, the "mutes left channel" is the real issue.
<DanaG> I believe PulseAudio is what's doing that.
<crimsun> ...
<crimsun> why would PA have anything to do with what d-
<crimsun> h-d-m exposes?
<DanaG> Oh wait, it's not pulseaudio.  Even without PA running, gnome volume control still mutes the left channel.
<crimsun> so we need to look at GSt if alsamixer/amixer/aumix work correctly.
<DanaG> AAh.  Console alsamixer works correctly.
<pwnguin> i do wish liferea had proper mime type handling
<romistrub> what's this new sound system being developed?
<romistrub> I'm entirely new to the linux community (first week) and my friend (who intro'd me) told me about this new sound system
<DarkMageZ> romistrub, possibly pulseaudio.
 * DanaG uses PulseAudio.
<DanaG> It can do wonderful things, but it also can cause evil bugs in poorly-coded apps.
<DanaG> For example, one time PulseAudio crashed, and the next time Pidgin went to play a sound, it sat there eating up my memory until it was taking 80% of (RAM + SWAP).
<DarkMageZ> hehe, pidgin = poorly coded app =D
<DarkMageZ> is there a way to stop this new xorg from ignoring /etc/X11/xorg.conf ?
<DanaG> 2+2 = ....buzz..buzz..buzz... 10.     In base 4, I'm fine.
<DanaG> s/=/is/
<DanaG> Hmm, I just discovered ANOTHER thing about PulseAudio:
<DanaG> It uses the "PCM" slider of my Audigy, not the "Front", so I can't upmix.
<DanaG> PulseAudio also won't automatically use surround on my Audigy2.
<Hobbsee> your sound setup sounds terrible.
<Hobbsee> crimsun: fix it :)
<Hobbsee> crimsun: DanaG's sounds worse than my old frankenstinean laptop, no?
<DanaG> No, it actually sounds rather good.
<crimsun> it should sound better.  It uses speex's resampler by default.
<crimsun> also, I noted the mixer element issue above.
<crimsun> it's 2 AM localtime, so I will have to peer more closely later today.
 * Hobbsee was meaning level of tempramentalness, not actual sound
<DanaG> Oh, and daemon.conf seems to have had all comments removed lately.
<DanaG> the .dpkg-old version still has them.
<crimsun> um, no.
<crimsun> that's very much a local issue for you.
<DanaG> Odd.
<crimsun> Hobbsee: yes, but [un]fortunately that's not PA's fault.  We can blame ALSA for the overly complex mixer elements enumeration for EMU10Ks.
<crimsun> granted now that we've had that for upwards of a half-decade, we have to carry that legacy compatibility...
<DanaG> If you need sleep, you should get sleep.
<Hobbsee> true
<Hobbsee> just don't give up sound, whatever you do
<DanaG> It's 11:13 for me (Pacific) so I should go to bed soon, anyway.
<Knightlust> hi all, quick question.. i have hardy installed, but i want kde4.. how do i go about that. i tried installing kde4 and kde4-core but aptitude gave me dependency errors and won't install it.
<DanaG> That reminds me... I've spotted a few bugs in various packages, but I reeeally need to formally file them.
<crimsun> (speaking of KDE 4, I'm quite pleased that it will be an option for 8.04.)
<DanaG> ....and not get stuck in an endless cycle of "I'll do it tomorrow".
<crimsun> memoserv your primary irc nick.
<crimsun> use tomboy or stickies, etc.
<Hobbsee> use compiz.
<Hobbsee> annotate :)
<Hobbsee> far more effective.
<DanaG> There's also some "don't forget the milk" site online.
 * Hobbsee thinks annotate is far more effective
<DanaG> It's not permanent, though.
<crimsun> unfortunately compiz requires enabling dri, and simply enabling dri is strongly correlated to a plummet in work productivity by sig11s.
 * DanaG uses nvidia.
<DanaG> I just hope ATI is better than NVIDIA by the time summer rolls around.
<DanaG> Oh, one of the bugs I need to file: that scheduler issue.
<crimsun> (my symptom is similar to #175744.)
<Hobbsee> DanaG: for every bug you file, you either have to fix one, or triage 2.
<DanaG> Hmm, is src-sinc-fastest better than the speex resampler?
<crimsun> no
<DanaG> I guess I need to either give up folding@home or resign myself to running hot.
<DanaG> Even if I 'nice' the folding@home processes, anything else (such as PulseAudio) using CPU will speed it up.  Perhaps I just need to change the thresholds.
<crimsun> hmm, or be more precise regarding "better".
<DanaG> Better as in audible quality difference.
<crimsun> then no, it's most definitely "worse" than the default speex one used.
<crimsun> you could also just disable resampling period.
<DanaG> I haven't thought about how that'd work.
<crimsun> I would definitely disable resampling before burning a hole in my pants.
<crimsun> granted, if it came to that, I'd chase down a bug in src:linux.
<crimsun> barring that and using laziness, revert to l-i-2.6.22-14-generic
<crimsun> ok, time to board the train.
<crimsun> ^Ad
<DanaG> Huh?
<DanaG> Train?
<crimsun> ^Wmetro, aka "train"
<DanaG> Oh yeah, is there a way to make snd-usb-audio be able to give multiple indexes, but none below a certain number?
<crimsun> more precise example?
<DanaG> Eeh, perhaps commas will work.
<Fjodor> Anecdotal remark of a time long past, but back in the days when 2.6.15 was the supplied kernel (was that the dapper?), my laptop reported a cpu temperature in the high 40's or low 50's. After dist-upgrading, it ran consistently in the high 50's and up to 65-67C...
<crimsun> yes, commas would work.
<Fjodor> Just apropos "running hot"...
<billytwowilly> Is there a way to customize the big black bar at the bottom of kde 4?
<crimsun> I recommend using slots=  for snd.ko instead of index=  for snd-*.ko, though.
<crimsun> unfortunately that [slots] param isn't in 1.0.15 in 2.6.24
<crimsun> you'll need hg or a snap
<DanaG> I indent to have onboard be 0, audigy be 1, and anything usb be 2 or above.
<DanaG> ...but then again, with PulseAudio, it doesn't matter.
<crimsun> right, I wouldn't use plug: for PA
<crimsun> just use PA natively
<crimsun> (w/ hal)
<crimsun> I think I made that comment earlier last night
<DanaG> Oh yeah, now I remember why I keep them in a certain order: for the Gnome mixer.
<crimsun> (https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pulseaudio/+bug/109439/comments/4)
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 109439 in pulseaudio "pulseaudio should use default alsa devices" [Undecided,New]
<DanaG> Pulseaudio as default, using default:  bad.  Very bad.  I know -- I've tried it, accidentally.
<DanaG> Gaack, that hotplug sound always catches me by surprise. It's actually kind of funny that I haven't learned not to put headphones on until after I've plugged them in.
<DanaG> (referring to 'conditioned response', partly.)
<crimsun> ok, really 'night.
<DanaG> Good nigh.
<DanaG> t.
<DanaG> Next thing I think I'll do: ditch my Audigy and get a CM106-based USB sound card.
 * DanaG redirects his rant to /dev/null
<DanaG> Note to self: don't repeatedly eject and insert my Audigy.
<Laser88> Hi!
<DarkMageZ> anyone know how i can make xorg pat attention to /etc/X11/xorg.conf ?
<scizzo-> DarkMageZ: xorg pat?
<DarkMageZ> pay*
<DarkMageZ> it appears to be completely ignoring it :(
<scizzo-> DarkMageZ: X needs to be restarted for xorg to be reread
<DarkMageZ> i rebooted the entire syste
<scizzo-> DarkMageZ: well then what is the change you are trying to do?
<Laser88> After the reboot are your changes still in the xorg.conf or are they overwritten?
<DarkMageZ> still in the xorg.conf
<scizzo-> still asking what you are trying to change and what you think should happen?
<Laser88> yep, would be interesting
<DarkMageZ> i added a resolution.
<scizzo-> DarkMageZ: paste the config on pastebin
<DarkMageZ> http://pastebin.ca/829576
<scizzo-> the "1280x960" ?
<Laser88> And you cannot choose it?
<DarkMageZ> yeah. the 1280x960. can't pick it. works without the fglrx package
<Laser88> What if you uncomment the other resolutions?
<DarkMageZ> turn them into comments? shouldn't have to go that far.
<Laser88> Shouldn't - but I've heard that it sometimes helps - forces the 1280x960
<DarkMageZ> right, i'm gonna give it a shot
<Laser88> But you should be able to make this change back without X
<pwnguin> finally
<pwnguin> my sd card works
<DarkMageZ> restarting
 * pwnguin does a dance
<pwnguin> <(o-o)<
<pwnguin> >(o-o)>
<pwnguin> \o\
<Laser88> The pwnguin-shuffle^^
<pwnguin> oh man, if these new xorg updates bring in fixed wacom
<pwnguin> im set
<pwnguin> they do not =(
<DarkMageZ> no change
<Laser88> Did anybody already create a new user with HardyHeron?
<Laser88> Experienced problems?
<DreadKnight>  is anyone using hardy with kde4 allready?
<stdin> indeed :)
<bazhang> hehe
<DreadKnight> how do i upgrade? is it enough to add "deb http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ hardy main" to the 3rd party repo and update?
<stdin> don't mix gutsy and hardy
<stdin> if you want to upgrade just replace gutsy with hardy (and may god have mercy on you)
<DreadKnight> in the sources.list file?
<cj_> perl -p -i -e s/gutsy/hardy/g /etc/apt/sources.list
<pvandewyngaerde> if you want to spend your hollidays   fixing your system
<DreadKnight> hehe
<stdin> "sed -i 's/gutsy/hardy/g' /etc/apt/sources.list" is a shorter command
<pvandewyngaerde> what is the last g for ?
<stdin> without 'g' it would stop after the 1st instance/replace
<cj_> stdin: thats non POSIX :o
<stdin> it's how sed works, blame GNU
<cj_> indeed. real sed is a lot less forgiving
<MaximLevitsky> One question, I updated the system to hardy, and notice that all gtk application use some default and not-good theme. How can I fix this, or is this a bug?
<MaximLevitsky> I used feisty before, then updated to gutsy, used it for a day, and then updated to hardy. Usially I "update" the system by reinstalling newer version, and this is why I used so outdated version. But now I dicovered that updates aren't bad at all, and now I am back using beta-version of ubuntu
<MaximLevitsky> Mostly this is the only problem I have
<MaximLevitsky> I use kubuntu
<pvandewyngaerde> FF3 is ugly here, also gtk related i think
<pvandewyngaerde> also kubuntu
<MaximLevitsky> I have all gtk applications ugly: large fonts, square window98 like buttons, etc
<MaximLevitsky> I meant square widgets
<MaximLevitsky> I need to know whenever this is a config-related issue, or a real bug that I will report
<MaximLevitsky> Before the update all applications, but vmware-server did look right
<MaximLevitsky> After update to gutsy I got vmware looking right, but few alpplications got ugly
<MaximLevitsky> Now all are ugly
<travkin> Hello guys.
<travkin> I have problem.
<travkin> GTK themes doesnt working, Firefox/Gajim/Pidgin are ugly.
<travkin> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=648099
<travkin> how to fix this ?
<MaximLevitsky> Same here
<travkin> :(
<travkin> any ideas ?
<MaximLevitsky> Don't have any ideas  :-(
<MaximLevitsky> But since you have same issue, this is prbably a bug
<travkin> Where can i report about this ?
<MaximLevitsky> Launchpad ?
<MaximLevitsky> You can report bug on https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+filebug
<MaximLevitsky> I probably report it there if you don't wat to do so
<travkin> and also java doesn't work
<MaximLevitsky> Yep
<MaximLevitsky> "java: xcb_xlib.c:82: xcb_xlib_unlock: Assertion `c->xlib.lock' failed."
<MaximLevitsky> Java doesn't work here too
<MaximLevitsky> "java: xcb_xlib.c:82: xcb_xlib_unlock: Assertion `c->xlib.lock' failed."
<travkin> MaximLevitsky: how to fix ? :(
<MaximLevitsky> Don't know :-)
<hit> how do i see if i have alpha 1 or 2 installed?
<DarkMageZ> hit, kernel version. .22 is alpha 1 .24 is alpha 2
<DarkMageZ> tho you can just run the updater on alpha 1 to reach alpha 2
<hit> alpha 2 then already, thanks
<hit> DarkMageZ, any changelog or somthing about what's fixed/added in alpha 2?
<hit> +e
<DarkMageZ> hit, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HardyHeron/Alpha2 is all i can think of atm.
<DarkMageZ> tho there's probably more =D
<hit> i'm curious about those screen freezes i've had here with alpha 1
<hit> so far haven't had any with 2, so maybe it's fixed somehow
<optx>  hi can somebody give me a link how to fix the 'running local boot script' on hardy please ?
<optx> when i google i just get fixes for 7.10 ???
<hit> roar
<hit> another freeze
<hit> ctrl alt backsp won't even work
<DarkMageZ> hit, i haven't experienced any freezing. probably a driver issue.
<optx> no help 4 this prob ?
<hit> ati drivers
<hit> not official
<DarkMageZ> hit, refering to fglrx or ati 6.7.197?
<hit> ati
<hit> fglrx was even worse
<DarkMageZ> i'm running ubuntu's ati (xorg) driver. stable. chipset version with driver issue i would guess.
<DarkMageZ> what ati chipset? rv200/300/410
<optx> so what can i do to get hardy working ?
<hit> 9550
<DarkMageZ> hit, lspci | grep ati
<hit> RV350?
<DarkMageZ> ah. same as my card (probably a different clock rate and stuff)
<hit> ah and i have 6.7.196
<hit> as synaptic says
<DarkMageZ> yeah. there's no changes in upstream's code that directly references our chipset as unstable. are you sure it's not a hardware issue.
<hit> i.e gaming in windows is fine
<hit> can't be hw problem i think
<DarkMageZ> gaming is a good test. was a previous ubuntu/linux fine?
<hit> again
<optx> nobody here to help me ?
<hit> very often happens when using firefox
<DarkMageZ> optx, i have nfi about your problem :p
<DarkMageZ> hit, gaming is a good test. was a previous ubuntu/linux fine? have you applied some tweaks to your xorg conf or something?
<optx> DarkMageZ:  u got hardy running ?
<hit> didn't have any problems with gutsy and xorg conf should be quite default
<DarkMageZ> optx, yeah. it's stable here.
<hit> conf is quite small also imo..
<optx> hmm k gonna check a other release ..
<optx> couldnt even boot the 64bit one :(
<DarkMageZ> hit, i'm out of ideas. maybe poke the guys in #radeon or #xorg. get some debugging happening =D
<hit> DarkMageZ, http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/49415/
<DarkMageZ> hit, you might also want to apply this to your xorg.conf
<DarkMageZ> Section "ServerFlags"
<DarkMageZ>         Option "NoTrapSignals" "true"
<DarkMageZ> EndSection
<hit> which is...?
<DarkMageZ> it disables xorg's own debug handling and will properly crash (so the ubuntu crash handler can do it's work)
<hit> sounds good
<DarkMageZ> which reminds me to do it to my own xorg.conf ?
<DarkMageZ> hit, please do attempt to get this debugged. i'd hate to see yet another bug like that slip into yet another release.
<DarkMageZ> anyways. i'm out. it's 1:13am here =D
<hit> 4:14pm :p
<hit> i've searched ubuntuforums and there are some threads about the same issue
<hit> some of them had found fixes to it, but they're not working for me
<DarkMageZ> yeah, it's not good for them to hack around the problem. i believe these things shouldn't happen (if possible) in the first place.
<DarkMageZ> especially with a critical component such as xorg
<DarkMageZ> hit,  yeah, it's not good for them to hack around the problem. i believe these things shouldn't happen (if possible) in the first place. especially with a critical component such as xorg.
<hit> yep
<DarkMageZ> anyways, i'm out. laters. good luck.
<DreadKnight> hey, the PPA kde4 repository from launchad is 'better'  than the packages from kubuntu 7.10/8.04?
<DreadKnight> i mean better as in "more updated" :\
<DreadKnight> i got kubuntu hardy, i want to install kde4, but seems the packages from ppa are broken (dependencies issues)
<DreadKnight> can anyone give me some tips on how to install kde4? :|
<Artimus> I've got the Kubuntu Hardy Alpha 2 ISO booted in a VM with a blank partition table.  I can click ok to make a partition table, but there's no option to create partitions...  Am I missing a step here, or is it head-to-launchpad time?
<Mohero> Hi all
<JohnFlux> Anyone know what's with the kubuntu LTS being dropped at the last moment?
<JohnFlux> The next Kubuntu LTS seems to have been pushed back to 2010
<Dr_willis> I would guess they  wanted to play it safe? :)
<Dr_willis> Linux is growing/evoloving so fast lately.. its scary
<Tomcat_> Who cares... it's necessary to have LTS versions. : )
<conn> hi, does anyone notice very sluggish gtk menu speed? For example, click on the "Applications" menu and navigate to "Places" and "System"; it's very sluggish on my systems. Gutsy didn't have this problem
<nixternal> anyone have issues when using the restricted ati driver (fglrx)? i just selected it in the restricted driver manager and now I don't get anything, just a blank screen
<DanaG> It might be the new CFS scheduler in 2.6.24.
<crdlb> it might also be the new fglrx :)
<DanaG> I've noticed sluggishness on my system, too.
<Artimus> nixternal: I had to break down and install it manually on a friend's box
<Artimus> Oh, wait, wrong channel.  I had to manually install it in Gutsy...
<Artimus> No way would I put Hardy on someone else's box.
<travkin> Hello guys.
<Artimus> Also, who's idea was it to make it another "H" release?  I keep calling it Hoary
<travkin> GTK+ themes doesn't work under KDE
<travkin> i get the rather ugly default unthemed GTK+ look
<travkin> in all GTK applications
<travkin> what to do?
<travkin> i tried to choose theme in gtk-qt config page
<travkin> in system-settings
<travkin> but its doesnt work
<travkin> tried to add a new user, but i got same results.
<DanaG> Gaack, my fonts are all color-fringey!
<Artimus> Yes, and the fonts look horrible at 800x600 :P
<DanaG> What happened to my legacy lcdfilter?
<DanaG> Fontconfig warning: "/etc/fonts/conf.d/100-legacy-subpixel.conf", line 5: invalid constant used : legacy
<DanaG> Aieee, it's all cleartype-ey!
<Artimus> kcontrol is broken in Hardy...  I miss it :(     (I'm not a fan systemsettings, this will be fixed before the day is over...)
<WorkingOnWis1> are the repos down right now?
<rb2k> did the gpg keys for the hardy packages change?
<Dr_willis> WorkingOnWis1,  ive heard a few others ask that as well.. I wonder if some of the servers may be down. theres not a lot of people asking.
<rb2k> I get errors when trying to upgrad to hardy
<rb2k> (from 7.10)
<DanaG> Sometime servers can be flaky, and sometimes there can be dependency conflicts.
<rb2k> but with the standard upgrad procedure too?!
<DanaG> I usually use Aptitude for nearly everything.
<DanaG> What kind of errors are you getting?  (describe, don't paste.)
<rb2k> uhm... approximately something like "Can't verify those packets:   *insert all the packets here*  "
<DanaG> Aah, try re-updating package lists.
<DanaG> That usually happens if a connection dies during a package-list update.
<rb2k> nope, tried several times :)
<rb2k> including apt-get updates in between
<DanaG> aah.
<rb2k> no MD5/SHA1 errors
<rb2k> simply signing errors afaik
<DanaG> Hmm.
<DanaG> Gaack, and I can't find the CD drive in Wine apps.
<tumbleweed__> DanaG : you have to add the cd drive manually in winecfg
<DanaG> I did, but the next time I open winecfg, it's not there.
<tumbleweed__> huh
<DanaG> And the "d::" symlink is still there in ~/.wine/dosdevices
#ubuntu+1 2008-12-15
<Starcraftmazter> hey guys
<Starcraftmazter> im trying to find a version of 9.04 alpha to download for home use, but i can't seem to spot it
<Starcraftmazter> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases/jaunty/alpha-1/
<Starcraftmazter> over here there's just the server edition and alternate cd
<Starcraftmazter> anyone wana land a hand?
<IdleOne> Starcraftmazter, that is all that's available right now
<IdleOne> use alternate cd if you want GUI
<Starcraftmazter> Alright, thanks
<IdleOne> Starcraftmazter, suggest you install to a separate partition or try in VM
<IdleOne> I would not upgrade your existing install
<Starcraftmazter> oh, yeh
<Starcraftmazter> I wanted to pre-emptively download it in case 8.10 didnt work with my current laptop, but botting on the livecd is does, so its ok
<Starcraftmazter> my new* laptop
<Starcraftmazter> booting*
<IdleOne> alternate cd is not a Livecd
<IdleOne> it is an install cd
<IdleOne> you can install from the live cd when it becomes available
<IdleOne> hmmm wait do I have that right
<Starcraftmazter> i meant the 8.10 livecd
<IdleOne> oh yeah ok
<IdleOne> but I was right about the alternate cd
<IdleOne> Starcraftmazter, what make and model laptop do you have?
<Starcraftmazter> hp dv-5 1138tx
<IdleOne> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HardwareSupport
<IdleOne> you can check that to see if anybody else has the same laptop and any issues
<IdleOne> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LaptopTestingTeam/HewlettPackard
<IdleOne> in any case download 8.10 and test with livecd
<Starcraftmazter> that is what I did mate :D
<Starcraftmazter> i should probably add my laptop to theree
<Starcraftmazter> there*
<IdleOne> that would be a good idea :)
<Starcraftmazter> :0
<Starcraftmazter> :D
<bSON> hi, i have lost 3d acceleration with jaunty, glxinfo tells me that the Software Rasterizer is used
<bSON> is this a problem with the update to xserver 1.6? has anybody seen this themselves and fixed it?
<BUGabundo_work> 1.6???
<BUGabundo_work> I have 7.4~5
<BUGabundo_work> I think it uses 1.5
<bSON> oh right, i thought i read something about 1.5.99 in the changelog.. anyway, i'm wondering where my dri acceleration has gone
<BUGabundo_work> what GPU bSON?
<bSON> BUGabundo_work: radeon 9600, it worked like a charm before with the open-source radeon driver
<BUGabundo_work> opensource driver and 3D? what's wrong in that sentence? :p
<bSON> the radeon driver has superb 3d support, believe it or not ;)
<BUGabundo_work> nvidia doesn't
<BUGabundo_work> that's why I'm surprised
<BUGabundo_work> plus, the driver wasn't ready at ibex release time
<bSON> shouldn't the nouveau driver have 3d support for nividia cards? i don't know about its progress though
<Mirv> anyone else with signal 11 with the new xserver & co? (intel)
<Mirv> (apparently yes, bug #308225)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 308225 in xserver-xorg-video-intel "X intel driver crashed at xf86CrtcSetMode()" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/308225
<cbr> hi, the new xorg segfaults for me
<cbr> what's up?
<Mirv> cbr: bug #308225, hit me as well. reverting one commit fixes the problem.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 308225 in xserver-xorg-video-intel "X intel driver crashed at xf86CrtcSetMode()" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/308225
<bardyr> hey, has anybody tried liveusb?
<cbr> Mirv: what does that mean?
<cbr> i dont have a browser to check the link :p
<Mirv> cbr: that there is one problematic code commit done upstream, reverting of which fixes the problem. so anyway, there is a fix available so we will probably see also new ubuntu packages soonish since it affects quite a many people.
<Mirv> cbr: meanwhile, if you don't like compiling your own xserver and really need to use that machine graphically, you can use Driver "fbdev" in xorg.conf (and select eg. screen mode vga=318 in the grub menu)
#ubuntu+1 2008-12-16
<DanaG> Odd... Linux thinks my Intel 5300agn card is a 5100 card.
<DanaG> I suppose I should file a bug report about the odd interaction (or lack thereof) between the mute button on my laptop, and ALSA.
<NoelJB> DanaG: probably ... what problem?  WFM, FWIW.
<DanaG> HP EliteBook 8530w.  The mute hotkey is not a standard button -- it's a "QuickTouch" button.
<NoelJB> Similar to the mute button on my Thinkpad?
<DanaG> I'm not sure.
<DanaG> On mine, some of the hotkeys have to go through the hp-wmi module.
<NoelJB> I have dedicated buttons for mute, volup, voldown.
<DanaG> In hardware, it's a similar sort of thing -- but I don't know how similar or different it is in software.
<DanaG> In addition, the fn-escape shortcut on my laptop sends keycode 465... which Xorg "can't handle" (that's the message it gives me).
<NoelJB> DanaG: I'd expect that it would come in via ACPI.
<NoelJB> although perhaps not for mute.
<DanaG> Oddly enough, the keys are actually not ACPI events.  Instead, they're a virtual input device.
<DanaG> With showkey... they give keycodes, but not scancodes.
<NoelJB> ok
<pengo> is there a good repo that has more recent stuff than the stock standard intrepid repo?
<pengo> e.g. vuze, blender..
<NoelJB> intrepid is supported in #ubuntu
<pengo> yeah but they don't help :/
<Volkodav> is there a way to upgrade via synaptic to Jaunty?
<NoelJB> pengo: vuze is in universe according to http://packages.ubuntu.com/intrepid/vuze
<Volkodav> I am getting this error http://pastebin.com/m125dc6c6
<pengo> NoelJB: yeah but i want a newer version.. they're up to v4 now
<NoelJB> Volkodav: pengo I know.  I run v4 myself.  Install it manually.
<pengo> NoelJB: hmm... so i should just install newer stuff manually?
<Volkodav> NoelJB, install what manually?
<NoelJB> pengo: That all depends.
<NoelJB> Volkodav: talking to pengo about vuze.
<NoelJB> although we really should move this to #ubuntu.  doesn't belong here.
<Volkodav> oh
<pengo> ok
<Volkodav> any idea what's wrong with the script
<NoelJB> Volkodav: not a clue.  I do clean installs.
<NoelJB> Volkodav: seems to be complaining about connections.
<Volkodav> and d-bus too
<DanaG> Heh, I just put on headphones and cranked my input volume on the array mic way up... and wow, it sounds rather interesting.  I can even hear the sounds of the backlight inverter.
<DanaG> Array microphones are cool.
<DanaG> Some experiment I'm going to try: insert canalphones (those earplug-like headphones), and see if I can localize sounds as well from the array mic as I can from my own two ears.
<prahal_> could at-spi in jaunty work without xevie (as it was removed from the xserver) ? I need at-spi registy for gnome-voice-control (nothing citical though as I understood at-spi is mportant for other uses
<BUGabundo_work1> how do I run gnome-do with debug symbols from gdb?
<BUGabundo_work1> I already install it, but cant start it
<BUGabundo_work1> gdb gnome-do says: "/usr/bin/gnome-do not in executable format
<eagles0513875> where can i get the iso for jaunty so i can help test it out
<IdleOne> cdimages.ubuntu.com IIRC
<eagles0513875> ty IdleOne
<eagles0513875> IdleOne this is the right place im looking right http://cdimages.ubuntu.com/kubuntu/releases/jaunty/alpha-1/
<IdleOne> yup
<IdleOne> no Live cd at the momment
<IdleOne> use alternate cd
<eagles0513875> thats fine gonna be setting it up on a vm
<IdleOne> well then you got it
<eagles0513875> :)ty
<eagles0513875> IdleOne i know this probably isnt the place to ask this but i have been using apt-build extensivley and i would like to work with the developer on improving it what woudl be the best way to go abotu it
<IdleOne> #ubuntu-dev might be more help
<IdleOne> they can guide you in the right direction
<eagles0513875> been baned from there till after jaunty
<IdleOne> hahah
<IdleOne> well then ummm
<IdleOne> launchpad.net look for the package and join the team I guess
<eagles0513875> ok
<IdleOne> really not sure
<eagles0513875> havent found a team i guess ill just wait
<eagles0513875> hows jaunty looking so far in alpha
<IdleOne> eagles0513875, see if you can talk to blueyed about apt-build he might be able to help you
<IdleOne> https://launchpad.net/~blueyed
<IdleOne> I'm done doing research now :P
<eagles0513875> IdleOne :)
<eagles0513875> ty
<IdleOne> np
<eagles0513875> hows jaunty looking in alpha
<IdleOne> don't know I have not tested it yet
<IdleOne> I normally wait till alpha 3 and upgrade
<IdleOne> by then things are pretty stable
<eagles0513875> dont try in a vm
<eagles0513875> you dont try it on a vm?
<IdleOne> my machine is to slow and makes it very disappointing
<IdleOne> so I don't bother
<eagles0513875> :( ouchie
<eagles0513875> your on intrepid right
<IdleOne> yeah
<eagles0513875> i want to see if you get the same issue as me but do u have a spare machine you can boot off the live cd and see if it load busybox initramfs prompt for ya cuz for me thats what it keeps doing even ater turing acpi and all that stuff off
<IdleOne> sorry I don't
<eagles0513875> if this is a bug i would like to see it caught before next release
<eagles0513875> anyone else having an issue after choosing a method of how to update your system
<eagles0513875> im having issues at the part where the installer is trying to install the necessary software
<eagles0513875> it keeps failling for some reason :(
<IdleOne> reporta bug on the debian installer. as per the cdimages.ubuntu.com page says
<eagles0513875> IdleOne ok
<eagles0513875> IdleOne do the cd images get rebuilt every night
<dereks> hi guys, when do you anticipate the 64bit java applet making it to jaunty?
<eagles0513875> IdleOne filed :)
<eagles0513875> IdleOne this problem was fixed in intrepid but now seems to have resurfaced in jaunty alpha1
<eagles0513875> omg michael is being a total bitch in the other channel
<Pici> eagles0513875: Please don't.  This is still a support channel.
<eagles0513875> Pici sry
<eagles0513875> got my offtopic channel confused wiht this one
<IdleOne> eagles0513875, regressions happen in alpha releases it will probably get fixed soon. Please remember that in ALL Ubuntu channels support and non the Ubuntu CoC must be followed
<IdleOne> although some slight bending of rules are allowed in some channels but I would still suggest you follow the CoC just to make sure :)
<eagles0513875> IdleOne :) thanks for the reminder
<NoelJB> Just checking ... is it expected that we have around 40 packages kept back at the moment?  Yes, yes.  I could do a dist-upgrade, but then things that ought not be removed want to be.  Looks like X and update-manager-core.  Just a sanity check question.
<mahfiaz> hi, do any of you suffer pulseaudio buffer underrun problems which trigger rewind and nasty jump in sound?
<mahfiaz> D: protocol-native.c: Requesting rewind due to end of underrun.
<mahfiaz> D: module-alsa-sink.c: Requested to rewind 65536 bytes.
<mahfiaz> D: module-alsa-sink.c: Limited to 504 bytes.
<mahfiaz> D: module-alsa-sink.c: before: 126
<mahfiaz> D: module-alsa-sink.c: after: 126
<mahfiaz> D: module-alsa-sink.c: Rewound 504 bytes.
<mahfiaz> D: sink.c: Processing rewind...
<mahfiaz> D: sink-input.c: Have to rewind 504 bytes on render memblockq.
<eagles0513875> hi LjL
<x1250> mahfiaz, do you hear "clicks" in sound?
<mahfiaz> x1250, not only clicks, but some sound will be jumped over
<mahfiaz> so songs play actually a little shorter
<mahfiaz> D: module-alsa-sink.c: latency set to 23,22ms
<mahfiaz> D: module-alsa-sink.c: hwbuf_unused_frames=15361
<mahfiaz> D: module-alsa-sink.c: setting avail_min=15890
<mahfiaz> D: module-alsa-sink.c: Requesting rewind due to latency change.
<mahfiaz> D: module-alsa-sink.c: Requested to rewind 65536 bytes.
<mahfiaz> D: module-alsa-sink.c: Limited to 61748 bytes.
<mahfiaz> D: module-alsa-sink.c: before: 15437
<mahfiaz> D: module-alsa-sink.c: after: 15437
<mahfiaz> D: module-alsa-sink.c: Rewound 61748 bytes.
<mahfiaz> D: sink.c: Processing rewind...
<mahfiaz> D: sink-input.c: Have to rewind 61748 bytes on render memblockq.
<mahfiaz> D: protocol-native.c: Requesting rewind due to end of underrun.
<mahfiaz> D: module-alsa-sink.c: Requested to rewind 65536 bytes.
<mahfiaz> D: module-alsa-sink.c: Limited to 504 bytes.
<mahfiaz> D: module-alsa-sink.c: before: 126
<mahfiaz> D: module-alsa-sink.c: after: 126
<mahfiaz> D: module-alsa-sink.c: Rewound 504 bytes.
<mahfiaz> D: sink.c: Processing rewind...
<mahfiaz> D: sink-input.c: Have to rewind 504 bytes on render memblockq.
<mahfiaz> I: module-alsa-sink.c: Underrun!
<mahfiaz> the pulseaudio claims this is because of latency change
<x1250> mahfiaz, try to use paste.ubuntu.com to paste stuff.
<mahfiaz> ok, there it will be easier to read
<x1250> mahfiaz, you can disable pulseaudio if you want, in gnome-session add: pulseaudio -k
<x1250> of test it in console first, see if your problems are gone with that
<x1250> $ pulseaudio -k, will kill it.
<calc> anyone know how to get facebook support in pidgin? aiui it supports it and the screenshot on pidgin.im shows it but i can't find how to enable it in 2.5.2
<mahfiaz> calc, apt-cache search facebook
<x1250> calc, you must create a new account, and select facebook
<calc> x1250: i tried to i don't see the option
<calc> x1250: already made one for myspaceim
<calc> x1250: is it supposed to be called 'facebook'?
<mahfiaz> x1250, can't say now, i probably would have to log off, I ran pulseaudio by hand
<mahfiaz> calc, no run the command I gave, you will get:
<mahfiaz> pidgin-facebookchat - Facebook Chat plugin for Pidgin
<calc> mahfiaz: ah ok
<x1250> calc, yes, the protocol is named Facebook, but you must install the plugin mahfiaz said
<calc> x1250: ok
<GodKilla-> hey all
<GodKilla-> im having problems setting up the internet on a daily image installed 2 days ago
<x1250> mahfiaz, pulseaudio -k will work instantly, but you must restart the program which was using pulseaudio for sound
<GodKilla-> *kubuntu
<x1250> like totem, or any other
<GodKilla-> that knetwork manager doesnt have an use atl all
<GodKilla-> and using ifconfig i can set it up so i can ping my own ip and my gateway
<GodKilla-> but everything else returns "network is unreachable"
<mahfiaz> GodKilla, if you want to do it the command line way, then after setting ip
<mahfiaz> route add default gw 192.168.1.1
<mahfiaz> or whatever your router is
<mahfiaz> and add nameservers to /etc/resolv.conf
<GodKilla-> did the last one
<GodKilla-> route add default returns "unknown host default" or something alike
<x1250> mahfiaz, I had the some random clicks myself on audio, but disabling pulseaudio in gnome-session made all problems go away.
<mahfiaz> GodKilla, this ip has to be in the same subnet as your own ip
<GodKilla-> i dont have a router, i have ethernet card connected to my modem and thats all
<GodKilla-> under windos dhcp works fine, under linux (whatever distro) it sometimes works, sometimes no
<mahfiaz> GodKilla, actually I would use dhclient eth0 instead
<GodKilla-> tried that "no OFFERS received"
<mahfiaz> then this is router or NIC problem, I suppose
<GodKilla-> im on that same machine now, only under win
<GodKilla-> the inet works fine here
<GodKilla-> another thing is, why doesnt it save any network configs i do?
<GodKilla-> and, whats the use of manual ip config knetworkmanagers offers, it doesnt do any changes
<mahfiaz> and why networkmanager messes up wep keys?
<burner_> so is x in transition right now?  I noticed a dist-upgrade is going to remove nvidia-glx-177 so i've been holding off
<GodKilla-> how to check which version of ubuntu ive installed?
<GodKilla-> uname?
<x1250> GodKilla-, $ lsb_release -a
<GodKilla-> thanks
<GodKilla-> alright ill try messing with the routing table :s
<mahfiaz> burner, it seems like I have got nvidia-173-kernel-source pack instead
<burner_> mahfiaz: does a dist-upgrade ask you to remove it?
<mahfiaz> I have dist-upgraded already, cannot say, I had a little mess and was to run "dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg" after reboot, but not sure if it wasn't my fault
<mahfiaz> just see if the nvidia*source package is in list of to be installed packages
 * burner_ is tempted to try out nouveau
<burner_> phoronix has a post about the X changes to 9.04 today
<x1250> a full upgrade attempts to remove a lot of xorg drivers. I would run a $ sudo aptitude safe-upgrade
<x1250> mahfiaz, changing the inkscape package name is a good idea, thanks. I'll probably name it inkscape-svn for the next build.
<mahfiaz> x1250, then you have to use some appropriate --prefix
<mahfiaz> because packages cannot have conflicting files
<mahfiaz> maybe use --prefix=/opt/inkscape-svn
<x1250> uhm, yep, thanks for the tip :)
<tretle> can anyone tell me whether package kit was discussed at uds?
<ikonia> tretle: package kit ? got any more details ?
<cbr> hi, the new xserver FTBFS @ buildd because libdrm-dev tries to overwrite something that's also in linux-libc-dev
<cbr> in the i386 arch
<tretle> well whether it will be included in jaunty or jaunty+1 as default..... its coming along really nicely, the codec manager for instancecommunicates directly with gstreamer so gstreamer enabled apps support it without having to add support per app
<ikonia> cbr: what do you mean it trys to overwrite
<tretle> firefox for instance told me that I didnt have the right codecs installed and asked me if I wanted to install gstreamer-extras, banshee also had support for codec installation through packagekit-gstreamer backend
<ikonia> cbr: it should be pre-pacakged so shouldn't overwrite anything
<ikonia> tretle: sounds interesting sounds like I need to have a look at it
<cbr> ikonia: well, the log says that the buildd tries to install libdrm, which then tries to overwrite drm.h somewhere in /usr/include/drm
<cbr> and that's not allowed
<cbr> so installing the builddep fails
<cbr> and the build fails
<ikonia> cbr: so your trying to build this yourself ?
<tretle> ikonia - the package that comes with intrepid is seriously out of date
<cbr> no, i'm looking at a build log of palmer
<cbr> the i386 buildd
<ikonia> cbr: ah
<ikonia> tretle: I've not looked at it so wouldn't know
<cbr> so i'm a bit concerned about that
<cbr> because it's supposed to fix a segfault bug :p
<ikonia> maybe worth reporting the bug then
<ikonia> better to catch it as early as possible
<cbr> well, i would, i kind of only have links2 as a browser though :p
<jacob> ikonia: two packages cannot 'own' the same file. the FTBFS problem here is that this is happening and the builders aren't letting it continue.
<jacob> sorry, ignore that.
<jacob> lost my scrollback. :P
<ikonia> ;)
#ubuntu+1 2008-12-17
<burner> ok, so my wallpaper shows for about 2 seconds while my panel is loading, then disappears and I'm left with whatever background color I set in the appearance preference... I'm stumped
<mahfiaz> burner, when you set wall paper again then nothing shows up?
<burner> nothing except changing the color to whatever color was set for the new wallpaper
<mahfiaz> take a look to ~/.xsession-errors, maybe there is useful information about crashes
<burner> (gnome-panel:6660): Gdk-WARNING **: /build/buildd/gtk+2.0-2.14.5/gdk/x11/gdkdrawable-x11.c:878 drawable is not a pixmap or window
<burner> could it be that?  or possibly:
<burner> ** (nautilus:6663): WARNING **: Unable to add monitor: Not supported
<mahfiaz> probably the second one
<mahfiaz> try killing all nautiluses and running one from terminal
<mahfiaz> no, this won't give you any information
<burner> killing nautilus and bringing it back doesn't even blip my wallpaper for the 2 seconds of it I see during logon
<burner> ah ha!!!
 * burner checked sessions and noticed remote desktop was enabled... the box was unchecked to remove wallpaper when someone connects remotely...  i checked it.. logged in remotely.. and when I logged off, the wallpaper came back!  yatta!
<VLAD-DA-IMPAILER> sup pimps
<VLAD-DA-IMPAILER> yo wat sup?
 * burner shrugs
<VLAD-DA-IMPAILER> yo why my thing going red when i try to put this in my computer?
<VLAD-DA-IMPAILER> yo anyone in here
<mahfiaz> VLAD-DA-IMPAILER, you are a little unclear
<mahfiaz> we are not sure what is "your thing" which is going to red
<VLAD-DA-IMPAILER> i try to install it, and i get red screen
<mahfiaz> is this just a blank screen or has it some text on it?
<VLAD-DA-IMPAILER> it's some kind of error
<mahfiaz> then all I can say, is you are getting some error, which you may know already
<burner> lol
<VLAD-DA-IMPAILER> when it gets to installing packages it throws an error , setup failed or sumtn
<burner> possibly a bad burn?  run teh 'check cd for errors" thing?
<mahfiaz> but next time please read the error message carefully and write down, if needed
<VLAD-DA-IMPAILER> no, but not a bad burn, ive had this on many different versions of kubuntu
<burner> so you're trying to install Kubuntu but can't?
<VLAD-DA-IMPAILER> right
<burner> Kubuntu Jaunty alpha something?
<VLAD-DA-IMPAILER> yup
<VLAD-DA-IMPAILER> my friend said it was the best
<burner> you're just testing jaunty and it worked in intrepid for you?
<burner> if you're new to linux, i'd say wait on jaunty...  it's alpha software.  8.10 "intrepid" was released in October and works pretty well
<mahfiaz> we could also say this was almost november
<VLAD-DA-IMPAILER> well, actually i have those failures on all nvchipset mobos, but right now i have the new amd chipset
<mahfiaz> with intrepid too?
<VLAD-DA-IMPAILER> yeah
<burner> try "ubuntu" ?
<burner> try from a USB installer?
<mahfiaz> and hardy?
<VLAD-DA-IMPAILER> i've never done a setup from usb, any guides?
<VLAD-DA-IMPAILER> havent try regular ubuntu, not a fan
<burner> yeah ok... kubuntu should be fine
<mahfiaz> ubuntu derivates make almost no difference, this cannot be the problem
<mahfiaz> As burner suggested, try intrepid again and ask on #ubuntu
<mahfiaz> and DON'T forget to write the error message down
<VLAD-DA-IMPAILER> oh, and im usually using the alternate versions
<burner> why not -desktop?
<VLAD-DA-IMPAILER> i like to setup software raid
 * charlie-tca likes to try the live cd to make sure the system will work
<mahfiaz> most likely your error is about your software raid :)
<burner> lol... indeed
<VLAD-DA-IMPAILER> do u have a link to daily live kubuntu x64?
<VLAD-DA-IMPAILER> no, im experienced with that
<mahfiaz> what you use the software raid for? RAID-0?
<VLAD-DA-IMPAILER> raid0 most of the time
<mahfiaz> LVM aka logical volume management does this job more neatly
<mahfiaz> you could even attach newly connected drive to lvm and expand filesystem to it
<VLAD-DA-IMPAILER> i could never understand that lvm thing,
<mahfiaz> imagine you have hotswap mobo one day :)
<mahfiaz> and instead of saying your customers that you have to go offline to add drives, you simply attach new one, live
<mahfiaz> see gentoo handbooks for lvm management
<VLAD-DA-IMPAILER> why do u bring gentoo up?
<mahfiaz> I said see gentoo *handbooks*
<mahfiaz> these are superious, in my opinion
<mahfiaz> *superiour
<VLAD-DA-IMPAILER> i know , but where did gentoo come from?
<burner> from the fact they have good lvm docs
<VLAD-DA-IMPAILER> well, i don't need lvm, i do it by myself
<mahfiaz> yeah, thats the problem
<VLAD-DA-IMPAILER> no, im quite capable of setting up a few drives
<mahfiaz> by the way, if one wants to get good linux-administrator experience, then gentoo is the one to run for some months
<VLAD-DA-IMPAILER> damn it im gonna go do a screenshot
<mahfiaz> and then use debian or ubuntu for real work
<mahfiaz> that's good idea
<VLAD-DA-IMPAILER> ok,ok, now help me figure out what the problem could be
<mahfiaz> did you get the screenshot?
<VLAD-DA-IMPAILER> well, no, cause id have to get off, and i didnt feel like leaving yet
<VLAD-DA-IMPAILER> so, how do i install it from a usb drive?
<x1250> calc, are you around? I think I've found a bug on openoffice. Try opening a PPT file, select another master page, save as ppt. It will result in a write error. Then choose save as odp, it will save as usual. :(
<x1250> openoffice from intrepid's PPA, which I'm using on jaunty......
<mahfiaz> VLAD-DA-IMPAILER: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/FromUSBStick
<DanaG> I am so, so very glad I bought this laptop with AMT enabled.  I resumed from suspend, and got a blank screen.... and somehow, the ssh server was not reachable. Yet, I was able to log into the serial console -- even with the OS networking down!
<DanaG> Heh, somehow NetworkManager is not getting the memo that says I've rfkilled the wifi.
<DanaG> weird dsdt... seems to have SQL queries!  www.csc.calpoly.edu/~dgoyette/elitebook-8530w-dsdt.dsl
<alka_trash3> I'm sort of excited for Jaunty
<alka_trash3> With am64 bit versions of Flash and Java with improvements in speed should be nice
<ottoshmidt> when will alpha version be available?
<ikonia> ottoshmidt it already is
<ikonia> ottoshmidt: check the topic
<ottoshmidt> where?
* ikonia changed the topic of #ubuntu+1 to: Welcome to the Ubuntu Jaunty Jackalope (alpha) discussion channel | Jaunty is NOT RELEASED and NOT SUPPORTED, it will most certainly break your system in bad ways. Jaunty CD Images Available at http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases/jaunty/ | Join #ubuntu for Intrepid Ibex (8.10) and previous versions support
<ikonia> tehre you go
<ikonia> there you go
<ottoshmidt> ;)
<ottoshmidt> what does not supported mean?
<ottoshmidt> no one will assist if any problems?
<ottoshmidt> (Jaunty is NOT RELEASED and NOT SUPPORTED)
<ikonia> pretty much
<ikonia> people will hlep out, but it probably won't be a big deal if it's broke as it's still in development
<ikonia> you may have to re-install your system a lot too
<ottoshmidt> :)
<ottoshmidt> and if I report bugs and help to make it better?
<ikonia>  depends if they are valid bugs, or just a case of you can't use them
<ikonia> if they are valid, great
<ikonia> you need to be able to provide debugging information though
<ikonia> version information, compatability details, hardware, accurate discription of the problem, what you've done to try to resolve it, not just "it doesn't wokr"
<ottoshmidt> interesting
<ottoshmidt> but how do I know if it's not a valid bug in advance?
<BUGabundo_work> you will learn with time ottoshmidt
<BUGabundo_work> and ikonia I don't remember ever to reinstall a devel version
<BUGabundo_work> sure when LibC6 got broken it was a nightmare
<BUGabundo_work> and I had to use the LiveCD to fix it, but that was the worst that ever happened to me
<BUGabundo_work> luckly....
<BUGabundo_work> I sure hope I never loose un-backuped data
<ikonia> BUGabundo_work it depends on the breakage
<gnomefreak> broke libc6 is the worst that can happen other than kernel panic
<ikonia> BUGabundo_work: just becaquse YOU have never re-installed doesn't mean others won't, it is quite a common thing to re-install the dev version after working through a problem to break point
<gnomefreak> everything depends on libc6 without it your system wont work if broken system wont behave right
<BUGabundo_work> that's why I said it was the worst it ever happened! lol
<BUGabundo_work> I need to discover a way to re-apply all my settings
<BUGabundo_work> for quick re-install
<BUGabundo_work> I don't do them as often 'cause it sucks to redo everything
<BUGabundo_work> I run a lot of services for personal usage and testing, and copying /etc aint always strait forward
<gnomefreak> is anyones gpg key broke? not really the key but the gpg is broken
<BUGabundo_work> humm
<BUGabundo_work> I'll have to test it
<BUGabundo_work> anything in specific gnomefreak?
<gnomefreak> BUGabundo_work: tbird trying to send email that you sign
<gnomefreak> i dont have tbid 2 atm so i cant test it
<ikonia> gnomefreak: on jaunty, I couldn't get it working about 2 weeks ago,. not tried after that
<BUGabundo_work> I use kmail, not tbird
<BUGabundo_work> but all my kmail emails are going signed
<gnomefreak> found this issue
<gnomefreak> its the password dialog that is failing to accept password im betting its gnugp-agent
<gnomefreak> cant sign a file either
<ottoshmidt> I was disconnected so if anyone wrote to me I missed :(
<ikonia> no-one did
<gnomefreak> damn its not gpg-agent causing this
<BUGabundo_work> naaa we're a bunch of quite people
 * BUGabundo_work takes a look at seahorse
<BUGabundo_work> ahh what a lovelly error message I got from seahorse while trying to add a ssh key to a remote server
<gnomefreak> BUGabundo_work: do you have pinentry-gtk2 installed or pinentry-qt?
 * BUGabundo_work checks
<BUGabundo_work> I have both
<BUGabundo_work> yeah seahorse is segfaulting but gdb aint catching it
<ikonia> BUGabundo_work can you strace it ?
<ikonia> see the last hook it fails on
<BUGabundo_work> http://paste.ubuntu.com/87081
<BUGabundo_work> can you take a look?
<ikonia> can do
<BUGabundo_work> and if anyone know what's causing those atk-bridge-WARNING let me know!
<BUGabundo_work> ikonia: am I meant to log strace too?
<ikonia> BUGabundo_work wouldn't hurt, that seg faults isn't giving much
<BUGabundo_work> I know
<BUGabundo_work> strace -f seahorse > strace.log would do it?
<BUGabundo_work> I'm getting it echo to screen and not the log
 * BUGabundo_work opens a LP but to keep track
<BUGabundo_work> ah
<BUGabundo_work> -o FILE
<BUGabundo_work> "couldn't read from seahorse-ssh-askpass: broken pipe" could be the reason for the bug
<BUGabundo_work> gnomefreak: ^^^^^^^^^^^^ is it related to yours?
<ikonia> BUGabundo_work are you getting a prompt on screen
<gnomefreak> BUGabundo_work: most likely it is
<BUGabundo_work> I 'm ikonia
<BUGabundo_work> but all pop ups are UNDER pop ups
<BUGabundo_work> I have to move windows to reach them
<gnomefreak> BUGabundo_work: cant remember but im pretty sure seahorse only uses *-gtk2 but you can check your default one by changing/checking update-alternatives pinentry-x11
<gnomefreak> BUGabundo_work: thats same bug
<BUGabundo_work> plus I have keep hitting the Pass field with my mouse to keep it selected
<gnomefreak> check also pinentry
<Hew> BUGabundo_work: Bug 272390 was the one I was thinking off, maybe this is a new one.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 272390 in seahorse "seahorse crashed with SIGSEGV in strstr()" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/272390
<BUGabundo_work> I'm seeing way to many on LP
<BUGabundo_work> bug 126094
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 126094 in seahorse "seahorse crashed with SIGSEGV when adding a SSH key" [Medium,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/126094
<gnomefreak> seahorse isnt crashing for BUGabundo_work
<BUGabundo_work> well it did to me twice
<BUGabundo_work> until I manage to enter the password on the under popup
<gnomefreak> its just not accepting passphrass. to chek if crashed look in /var/crash but i doiubt you will see it
<BUGabundo_work> ok
<BUGabundo_work> not crashing, segfaulting
<gnomefreak> segfault is a crash last i checked
<BUGabundo_work> no crashs there, just gwibber
<gnomefreak> segfault is interrupted running
<Hew> a segfault would trigger apport, yes
<Hew> although apport seems to be absent in Jaunty atm, perhaps it's just me..
<BUGabundo_work> naa, I don't see it either Hew
<gnomefreak> Hew: mine works
<gnomefreak> Hew: try enabling it
<gnomefreak> IIRC its in /etc/default/apport change the 0 to a 1
<Hew> gnomefreak: It is enabled
<gnomefreak> Hew: than its not absent
<gnomefreak> ;)
<Hew> .crash files are generated, but apport isn't triggered automatically. Not a big deal, I can navigate to /var/crash and run it manually when I need to :-)
<BUGabundo_work> uploading strace now
<gnomefreak> i crashed an app this morning and apport came up asking if i wanted to report it
<Hew> gnomefreak: Yes I know it's not absent, but it's just not triggering when it should :P
<Hew> ok good, well as long as it's not broken for everyone that's ok
<gnomefreak> it was gnome-app-install as i recall that i crashed
<gnomefreak> i guess i dont have to do any bug work since email is broken :)
<Hew> ah excellent, I just realised the gnome-panel applets aren't crashing anymore (such as five-a-day-applet)
 * gnomefreak has broken X and broken pinentry 
<Hew> gnomefreak: Congratulations :P
 * charlie-tca wondered who did that, gnomefreak 
<BUGabundo_work> ikonia: gnomefreak Hew https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/seahorse/+bug/308985 (Mark as Private)
<BUGabundo_work> strace on its way still
<mphill> what is apport?
<ubottu> Error: This bug is private
<gnomefreak> !apport
<ubottu> Sorry, I don't know anything about apport
<gnomefreak> why would you
<ikonia> BUGabundo_work I can't read it then if it's private
<BUGabundo_work> can't you ?
<BUGabundo_work> I thought most of you were in QA
<ikonia> BUGabundo_work: hence the name private
<gnomefreak> mphill: its a crash collecter that allows you to report crash reports and it adds the strace and such
<ikonia> ha ha no
<BUGabundo_work> let me just upload the strace
<charlie-tca> BUGabundo_work: Is it in Jaunty?
<BUGabundo_work> and have hew take a look at it
<mphill> gnomefreak: thanks
<BUGabundo_work> so see if I manage to omit all stuff
<gnomefreak> BUGabundo_work: unless subscribed to the package bug is filed under or reported
<BUGabundo_work> charlie-tca: yes I'm on jaunty
<Hew> BUGabundo_work: I can read it (Bug Control)
<BUGabundo_work> humm
<BUGabundo_work> can the strace be in targz?
<BUGabundo_work> I just noticed its 80MiBs of data
<Hew> BUGabundo_work: You can set it to public yourself when you are comfortable.
<BUGabundo_work> its using all my BW and it aint gonna go so soon
<Hew> .tar.gz is fine
<gnomefreak> im in it
<gnomefreak> ** Message: could not grab keyboard
<BUGabundo_work> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/seahorse/+bug/308985 (due to many family requests, is now public)
<gnomefreak> ** Message: could not grab keyboard
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 308985 in seahorse "seahorse segfault when adding remote server ssh key" [Undecided,New]
<gnomefreak> that tells me its same bug
<gnomefreak> BUGabundo_work: you have no private data in bug so setting it public should be fine
<BUGabundo_work> gnomefreak: uploading now strace tar.gz
<BUGabundo_work> done
<BUGabundo_work> you guys should see it now
<BUGabundo_work> remove any private data you still see on it!
<gnomefreak> refreshing after smoke
<BUGabundo_work> I already munge user and pass
<gnomefreak> shoudlnt have any in strace
 * BUGabundo_work 80MiBs to 500k... uau tar.gz rules
<BUGabundo_work> I could see them in there...
<Hew> BUGabundo_work: I'm not sure what private data could be there, unless your private key snuck in there somehow? :P
<BUGabundo_work> uhhhh
<BUGabundo_work> that would be bad
<BUGabundo_work> forgot to look for it
<Hew> BUGabundo_work: The Private feature is usually just for automatically submitted apport crashes. If you know what you're doing, you can just have a quick look yourself, no need to mark as private
<BUGabundo_work> grep can't find it
<Hew> BUGabundo_work: It was a joke, I really doubt that is the case :P
<BUGabundo_work> I think I'm safe
<BUGabundo_work> don't scare me like that
<Hew> hehe sorry ;-)
<BUGabundo_work> brb
<gnomefreak> BUGabundo_work: what is kde version of seahorse called?
<Hew> gnomefreak: kgpg? (just from a quick browse of the repositories, I don't use KDE so I'm not sure)
 * gnomefreak not sure either. he said he used kmail so i was hoping he would know
<gnomefreak> Hew: what package is 5-a-day applet in? i cant find it anywhere
<Hew> gnomefreak: It's five-a-day-applet from the PPA
<gnomefreak> i thought it was in repos already
<Hew> gnomefreak: Unfortunately no, there's a bug open for it though.
<Hew> gnomefreak: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/5-A-Day/Reporting
<gnomefreak> ah i thought it hit in intrepid
<gnomefreak> thanks Hew
<Hew> Bug 194372
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 194372 in ubuntu "[needs-packaging] 5-a-day" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/194372
<Hew> yea I hope it hits Jaunty now, but new packages have a habit of taking forever
<BUGabundo_work> back
<BUGabundo_work> I'm on gnome gnomefreak. I just use a few kde apps
<BUGabundo_work> like kmail, konqueror , etc
<Hew> BUGabundo_work: welcome back
<gnomefreak> bullgard4: ah ok
<bullgard4> gnomefreak: wrong nick.
<BUGabundo_work> lol
<BUGabundo_work> same 'bu' nick
<gnomefreak> oh sorry bullgard4
<gnomefreak> well since i cant do anything with email and its too late to start work on anything else on my to do list im gone for a while ;)
<mgs> Has anyone experienced their alt keys not working? Running Kubuntu, but can't really find a bug for it yet.
<BUGabundo_work> mgs: not here in ubuntu jaunty
<mgs> Guess I'll fiddle around a little more, and report a bug in the end if I cant find a solution, thanks.
<bhuvi> will jaunty alpha 2 live cd be released
<BUGabundo_work> yes bhuvi
<BUGabundo_work> !daily
<ubottu> Daily builds of the CD images of the current development version of Ubuntu are available at http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily/current/ and http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/current/
<BUGabundo_work> but you can also use a daily
<bhuvi> but can it be upgraded
<BUGabundo_work> sure
<BUGabundo_work> any version can be upgrade to what ever comes next
<bhuvi> i remember havin installed daily image for intrepid it had no authentication i mean uname output was unknown
<BUGabundo_work> humm?
<BUGabundo_work> 1st time I read about thatr
<BUGabundo_work> maybe a wrong image? or a bad day to test it?
<Xsss4hell> hi
<Xsss4hell> a week ago or soo I was happy having Jaunty
<Xsss4hell> I would be still
<Xsss4hell> would
<Xsss4hell> I updated jaunty as usual
<Xsss4hell> Now it doesn't showup ANY dialog anymore
<Xsss4hell> The os is NOT usable..
<Xsss4hell> but it was HIGHLY productive before the update
<Xsss4hell> Do you know that bug?
<Xsss4hell> Which logs do you need???
<Xsss4hell> I very VERY VERY neeed this desktop working asap
<Xsss4hell> I'm in textmode now
<Pici> Xsss4hell: you shouldn't be using Jaunty if you need it to work.
<Xsss4hell> Pici you shouldn't use a computer if you want to work..
<Xsss4hell> I know it's alpha, but it was very stable. until canonical released the latest update.
<Xsss4hell> something broke
<Pici> Xsss4hell: Ubuntu Alpha releases are not designed to be stable.  Its a bit of an anomoly that it was stable for you for this long.
<Xsss4hell> I don't think so!
<Xsss4hell> I have it since alpha1 got released, without even a minor bug!
<Pici> The developers were waiting for UDS to happen and be finished before they had a good direction to go regarding changes.
<Xsss4hell> And I'm a developer, so I use many functions that go beyond normal user's desktop experience
<Pici> Er. Okay?
<TheInfinity> you need alpha software, you are a developer and you use it at your productive system? wow.
<TheInfinity> you *use alpha software
<TheInfinity> one of these points is wrong. i would say the 2nd point ;)
<Pici> The channel topic explains it pretty well.
<TheInfinity> Pici: no working xorg is no breakage in a bad way - this can get much worse ;)
<Pici> TheInfinity: Oh indeed.
 * genii sips a coffee
<Xsss4hell> I'll reinstall ubuntu jaunty and do not apply updates
<Xsss4hell> but trying to find the bug..
<TheInfinity> Xsss4hell: if you need ubuntu you should use no jaunty.
<Xsss4hell> nothing special appears in the logs
<Xsss4hell> then interpid.. but intrepid had more bugs than jaunty, at least in the begining
<Pici> Xsss4hell: Jaunty with no updates is nearly the same thing as Intrepid.
<Xsss4hell> I wish you had an update-policy like gentoo. -> fast forward & stable
<genii> All the intermediate releases of ubuntu have had some issues. This is normal.
<dimebar> Xsss4hell: maybe if you stopped crying and installed something stable you'd be more productive
<genii> Since the purpose of the intermediate releases are to test and incorporate chanegs which will be in the next long-term release
<Xsss4hell> I've set up, ssh, apache, ldap, ftp, any many more on that machine, damn it.. that damn error must be fixable
<TheInfinity> you installed an SERVER at an alpha OS? wow. you are really crazy ...
<Xsss4hell> TheInfinity: I'ts for personal use
<Xsss4hell> not publicly available
<Xsss4hell> I've programmed applications  that interact with ldap auth etc.
<Pici> If you're aiming for stability I highly suggest that you use a non-alpha version of Ubuntu.  If you don't like Intrepid then use Hardy or earlier.
<Xsss4hell> the dekstop show up, everything seems normal, dialogs coming up, but the content of it is not displaying, so nothing is really usable, altough there
<Xsss4hell> Isn't any bug similar to that in launchpad? If you know it there should be a fix, instead of telling me to install another OS
<Pici> Xsss4hell: I don't know. You probably will have to look for yourself.
<BUGabundo> is it just me, or is the new FF update messing things?
<BUGabundo> most pages won't even load..
<BUGabundo> I know I'm not on the fastest net connection, but it aint that bad!
<charlie-tca> seems okay here. Anything specific?
<BUGabundo> yeah, pages not loading
<BUGabundo> and gwibber also blank
<BUGabundo> I suspesct bad webkit upgrade
<charlie-tca> Maybe. I got 5 tabs open, and pages are loading fast.
<BUGabundo> really strange then
<BUGabundo> both FF3.0.4 (just upgrade to .5) and FF3.1 won't open almost any page
<BUGabundo> gmail did open, but took a few retries
<BUGabundo> pidgin or UM are working great
<TheInfinity> hmm. archive.ubuntu.com for jaunty seems to be down atm?
<BUGabundo> it was up a few minutes ago, when I did my updates
<burner_> anyone know if nvidia drivers work in the latest dist-upgrade?  It wants to remove my nvidia-glx-177 but I don't see an alternative driver get installed
<BUGabundo> guys get ready to be on Mark's screen shots
<burner_> http://ubuntuweblogs.org rules! :)
<AnRkey> may i ask an off topic question quick?
<BUGabundo> I guess AnRkey
<AnRkey> configure: error: *** wxWidgets resource compiler not found - unable to build GUI components *** << what in the name of all that is good is this thing looking for?
<burner_> AnRkey: you compiling?  maybe it's a -dev package of wxwidgets?
<AnRkey> hmm
<AnRkey> brb
<burner_> try libwxgtk2.8-dev
<AnRkey> already installed
 * AnRkey starts getting emotional
<AnRkey> i get this when i try compile
<AnRkey> checking for wxrc-gtk2-2.8... no
<AnRkey> configure: error: *** wxWidgets resource compiler not found - unable to build GUI components ***
<AnRkey> it finds almost everything else
<AnRkey> thanks anyway chaps
<burner> lo siento
<blueyed> KDE on Jaunty is currently borked, correct? (e.g. kickoff menu displays only a box with black borders, the same for krunner). window decorations look strange/old, too..
<charlie-tca> I believe you are right, blueyed
<blueyed> Thanks for confirming, charlie-tca.
<charlie-tca> no problem.
<Daisuke_Ido> fix your connection already
<Daisuke_Ido> as he leaves YET again
<mphill> how lame
<genii> Makes you feel like smacking them around some
<neztiti> hi guys - can some on help me with ATI 1250 card to work with tvout with any driver???
<neztiti> hi guys - can some on help me with ATI 1250 card to work with tvout with any driver???
#ubuntu+1 2008-12-18
<charlie-tca> Anyone having issues with cdÂ´s not ejecting using the drive button? I have to right-click and hit eject to open the drawer
<charlie-tca> if there is a install cd in it.
<Sebastian> Is there a list of the changes made so far in jaunty somewhere? Looks like a bug of mine has been fixed in jaunty but still exists in intrepid. And I might want to upgrade early (as in "now") to jaunty.
<BUGabundo_work> Sebastian: for bug fixing you can either look at launchpad
<BUGabundo_work> or the changes.u.c
<Sebastian> changes.u.c?
<Sebastian> Reading through https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/jaunty-changes/ now.
<BUGabundo_work> you can also look at the source package that you want to know if it was fixed
<Sebastian> That is the problem: I don't know which package would contain the fix.
<BUGabundo_work> ok
<BUGabundo_work> what was the problem you had?
<Sebastian> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/42361
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 42361 in linux "Inaudible sound on fresh boot with ThinkPad X60 using AD1981HD codec" [Medium,Triaged]
<smallfoot-__> is dec18 today, when is come alpha"?
<smallfoot-__> alpha2
<smallfoot-__> i hope you not gonna try to delay it
<BUGabundo_work> smallfoot-__: you can already try the daily
<BUGabundo_work> !daily
<ubottu> Daily builds of the CD images of the current development version of Ubuntu are available at http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily/current/ and http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/current/
<smallfoot-__> oh
<smallfoot-__> its live too! cool
<BUGabundo_work> ah?
<smallfoot-__> i like live
<smallfoot-__> livecd
<BUGabundo_work> yes
<BUGabundo_work> of course
<BUGabundo_work> why wouldn't it be?Â»
<smallfoot-__> i thought it wouldnt be live
<smallfoot-__> i thought live was luxuary
<BUGabundo_work> nope
<BUGabundo_work> I think that the day after alpha1 there were already live images
<smallfoot-__> oh cool
<smallfoot-__> intrepid was crap in alpha 1-3, then in 4 it got little better and in 6 it was pretty nice
<smallfoot-__> how is jaunty?
<smallfoot-__> i noticed the restart didnt work in alpha1, but other then that, it seemed pretty solid?
<BUGabundo_work> humm a few bugs here
<smallfoot-__> oh
<milos_> !logs
<ubottu> Official channel logs can be found at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ - For LoCo channels, http://logs.ubuntu-eu.org/freenode/
<milos_> does anybody know when nvidia will be installable?
<BUGabundo_work> it aint right now??
<BUGabundo_work> then I have no idea how mine is running! LOL
<BUGabundo_work> compiz, nvidia-settings all OK
<BUGabundo_work> milos_: ^^^^^^^^^^
<milos_> BUGabundo_work, did you update your pc this morning?
<milos_> BUGabundo_work, after update it removed my nvida-glx-177. When i try to install it, it says that will remove hole Xorg
<BUGabundo_work> yep
<BUGabundo_work> sure did
 * BUGabundo_work checking
<BUGabundo_work> 177 instaled
<BUGabundo_work> and no reboot request
<milos_> stange
<milos_> *strange
<BUGabundo_work> let me run UM again
<milos_> ok
 * BUGabundo_work why does this feel like something I may regret later ?
<BUGabundo_work> ahhhhhhhhhhh
<BUGabundo_work> let me guess
<BUGabundo_work> milos_: you ran apt-get dist-upgrade
<BUGabundo_work> and not UM, right?
<milos_> yup
<BUGabundo_work> some Xorg packages are still being built
<BUGabundo_work> you just by passed that
<BUGabundo_work> I still don't get why doesn't apt warn about that....
<BUGabundo_work> I guess its for EXPERTS
<milos_> hheh I should run just apt-get upgrade
<BUGabundo_work> you should have just used apt-get upgrade (not dist) or UM
<milos_> my fault
<BUGabundo_work> yep
<BUGabundo_work> either downgrade X from cache or wait for it to finnish building
<milos_> nv can also do job until then
<BUGabundo_work> take a look at  the buildd queue
<BUGabundo_work> its been building for 3/4 days now the new X
<BUGabundo_work> beats me why it is taking so long
<BUGabundo_work> some times, I do like you, force it
<BUGabundo_work> but this time I better wait a few more days
<BUGabundo_work> until the alpha 2 build is out
<BUGabundo_work> someone will notice it, besides us two
<vega> few days? it's been postponed?
<DanaG> Heh, I just did an aptitude dist-upgrade.
<DanaG> I figure... since my GPU seems to be slightly broken anyway, I might as well switch to the OSS driver (which currently doesn't do much with the GPU) and get ACPI fixes and such from the new kernel.
<milos_> DanaG, nvidia or ati?
 * DanaG is going to call HP about the GPU issue.  One night I was using the laptop, and it suddenly hard-rebooted; ever since then, it's randomly locked up, and in Vista, it gets the "atikmdag stopped responding and was successfully restarted" error.
<DanaG> ATI.
<DanaG> And in Linux, I get a nice hang, with a stacktrace.
<DanaG> And with Xorg devouring CPU... and being unkillable.
<milos_> yup, use oss driver
<DanaG> http://pastebin.com/f24a23070
<DanaG> I didn't have any issues before that hard-reboot happened that night.
<DanaG> At least I'm within the first 1 month... of a 3 year warranty. =Ã¾
<DanaG> SO it should be covered.  Kinda' wishing I'd gotten on-site service, but I can afford a bit of downtime for the sake of fixing it.
<DanaG> My laptop is also useful for kernel debugging: I can do serial-over-LAN.  Spiffy.
<DanaG> Heh: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/glchess/+bug/210642
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 210642 in glchess "GNUChess loses on consulting help" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<DanaG> A Player Has Died.
<DanaG> Died?
<DanaG> How do you "die" in chess?
<BUGabundo_work> DanaG: I've been getting an strace on Halt for weeks,
<BUGabundo_work> bug 308185
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 308185 in linux "traceback on shutdown" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/308185
<DanaG> Heh, I got fglrx to work in intrepid, by downgrading xorg and libdri2... as well as fglrx.
<DanaG> fglrx newer than 8.543 doesn't work even in Intrepid.
<DanaG> Since I have hardware issues anyway, I'm not going to deal with bug-reporting that right now.
<mphill> Am I just lookining the wrong place or has http://www.ubuntu.com/testing/ not been updated at all.
<DanaG> Heh, I love how I have a serial console on this machine, over the network.
<DanaG> =Ã¾
<DanaG> ... and fn-escape is a bindable key.  Nifty.
<BUGabundo_work> any key is
<BUGabundo_work> if you use keytouchd
 * BUGabundo_work had to say something... it was looking bad to see DanaG talk to himself
<DanaG> =Ã¾
<DanaG> This is random: [ 2170.250987] ata2.00: exception Emask 0x10 SAct 0x0 SErr 0x10000 action 0xe
<DanaG> Just randomly had my CD drive act as if I had triggered a reset of the port.
<dickydoo2> How does a cd drive act if you trigger a reset of the port? O.o
<DanaG> argh, if I vt-switch with ATI... then it switches back automatically (apparently due to consolekit, or something, because it happens on nvidia, too)... but on ATI, you then get the issue of the server receiving ctrl-C, instead of the apps under it.  =Ã¾
<NoelJB> DanaG: if I understand correctly, have you turned off splash as a boot param?
<DanaG> Hmm, I don't think I have; will that fix it?
<NoelJB> DanaG: you mentioned nvidia.  with nvidia, if splash is enabled, the virtual terminals are hosed.
<NoelJB> don't know about ATI
<DanaG> VT works fine; it's the switching that's screwed up.
<NoelJB> DanaG: Ah, I see ... OK, this is new.  VT was working earlier.  Any idea when this started?
<NoelJB> Confirming that I see it switching back to X automatically.
<NoelJB> But ... if I do it more than once, it stays on the VT.  Interesting.
<NoelJB> DanaG: so the first time I switched to a VT, it bounced right back to X on 7, but thereafter I've been able to switch to and use the text consoles.  Is it consistent for you?
<vatts> hey can i ask you something about modifying ubuntu
<vatts> #ubuntu is kinda busy
<vatts> http://www.howtoforge.com/ubuntu-linux-mint-livecd-with-remastersys
<vatts> so i install this, add/rem progys and then it'll "recompile" it into cd/dvd?
<HOMEMADEJAM> I have this blog which contains many useful tips for new Ubuntu users :) Feel free to check it out:  http://jamsubuntu.blogspot.com
<LjL> ikonia: ...
<ikonia> LjL: lag on homejam after I told him yesterday
<LjL> i know
<ikonia> already sent a pm to habtool
<Alexia_Death> Hi. did a dist-upgrade to jaunty early as per usual... things broke as expected. But theres a few X specific things omebody may wanna explain?
<Alexia_Death> First, I seeem to have lost tap -kicking from my touchpad....
<Alexia_Death> clicking*
<Alexia_Death> anybody around now to comment on the new xorg and its quircks?
<Alexia_Death> For some reason my touchpad does not do tap click or edge scroll any more and gsynaptics fails complaining SHMConfig is not true. Ive set it true in xorg.conf...
<Alexia_Death> it still complains.
<Splex> I think the settings are stored in xml somewhere
<Splex> Alexia_Death, http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=6077309&postcount=121
<Alexia_Death> In case somebody cares http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEeePC/HowTo/ElantechTouchpad explains the touchpad issue.
<charlie-tca> Anybody here got the desktop (live) cd to work?
<charlie-tca> I get a tan background with a cyan square in the upper left. I have to do a hardware power off to exit even,.
#ubuntu+1 2008-12-19
<burner> what's the word on nvidia drivers?  the -nv drivers work, but they're a bit sloppy...  i notice nouveau is currently not apt-gettable either
<sisto> good night
<sisto> does anyone know if speeding up the startup is still a priority for jaunty?
<loic-m> it was still a priority last week at uds
<sisto> nice
<sisto> can't wait to try jaunty :D
<sisto> there's still 4 month and a half left though :(
<sisto> but that's lots of time to make it even better :D
<maco> when can we expect alpha 2?
<charlie-tca> maco: soon as qa gets it tested
<maco> charlie-tca: the iso or the installed version?
<maco> i have a broken cd drive, so i cant test anything bigger than a net install (cd drive breaks at about 100mb)
<charlie-tca> Huh? At least the iso. It was due out today.
<charlie-tca> I donÂ´t know if there will be a net install, but I think so.
<maco> well the X packages are still busted right?
<charlie-tca> busted how? I have not had any issues with the alternate installs
<crimsun> charlie-tca: proprietary drivers
<charlie-tca> Yeah, I think still busted
<crimsun> I know for a fact that both are still busted
<charlie-tca> The push is to get the iso out, then try to get that fixed
<crimsun> understood, and those of us who understand the breakage understand that it's not as simple as simply changing the provides in debian/control
<maco> charlie-tca: what about dist-upgrades for people who dont use proprietary drivers? those likely to work?
<charlie-tca> I donÂ´t know. I havenÂ´t done anything with them yet
<crimsun> maco: yes, unless you use the vmmouse driver
<maco> i dont currently have any vm's going
<crimsun> maco: then again, that driver was removed from xorg's -input-all, so you should be fine
<maco> is vmmouse for specific virtuailizaton software?
<maco> oh ok
<charlie-tca> thanks, crimsun
<tretle> hi anyone awake?
<burner> sure
<BUGabundo_work> Hew: ping
<Hew> BUGabundo_work: pong
<BUGabundo_work> do you remember https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/seahorse/+bug/308985 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 308985 in seahorse "seahorse segfault when adding remote server ssh key" [Undecided,New]
<BUGabundo_work> that we were talking to gnomefreak a few day?
<BUGabundo_work> its getting horse...
<BUGabundo_work> now the pineentry never gets send to foreground
<BUGabundo_work> its always stuck in the background....
<BUGabundo_work> humm now that I think of it, I think it's a bug with Compiz
<BUGabundo_work> (yeah I'm crazy like that, I run compiz with a broken nvidia driver, and screen never refreshs properly)
<Hew> hehe
<BUGabundo_work> should I file it against compiz and pine entry?
 * BUGabundo_work tests with compiz off
<Hew> if it happens with Compiz but not Metacity, then yes report it as Yet Another Compiz bug :P
<BUGabundo_work> LOL YACB
<BUGabundo_work> Confirmed
<BUGabundo_work> Compiz bug with the pine entry pop up
<BUGabundo_work> filing now
<BUGabundo_work> bah.. apport-cli 87% network problem
<BUGabundo_work> again...
<BUGabundo_work> Hew: is it working for you?
<BUGabundo_work> Hew: FYI bug 309622
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 309622 in compiz "Compiz takes pinentry stay in background" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/309622
<Hew> BUGabundo_work: Sorry was afk. I haven't used apport in a while so I'm not sure.
<Hew> BUGabundo_work: For Compiz bugs I always try and disable as many plugins using ccsm to see if one of them makes the issue disappear
<BUGabundo_work> I'll try that latter
<Hew> ok
<BUGabundo_work> Hew: would never have guessed you'r from Down Under!
<smallfoot-__> motherfuckers!
<smallfoot-__> you cant trust the ubuntu people
<smallfoot-__> they say they gonna release alpha2 on dec18, but then they dont!!
<smallfoot-__> its dec 19 now!! where is alpha 2
<bazhang> smallfoot-__, dont curse
<smallfoot-__> ok ry
<smallfoot-__> sry
<smallfoot-__> i love ubuntu servers
<smallfoot-__> im downloading daily-live .iso in 11.0 mbyte/s
<smallfoot-__> i downloaded 692 megabyte in 25 seconds
<ikonia> smallfoot-__: do you have a discussion/question regarding ubuntu 9.04 ?
<smallfoot-__> i didnt find alpha 2, so i downloaded live cd
<smallfoot-__> i gonna run it in virtualbox now
<ikonia> smallfoot-__: do you have a discussion/question regarding ubuntu 9.04 ?
<smallfoot-__> hmm... i think im gonna leave now
<smallfoot-__> bye
<Hew> BUGabundo_work: Why wouldn't you have guessed? :P
<BUGabundo_work> I don't know... not that a common name
<Hew> BUGabundo_work: Yea it's Welsh, I've never met anyone with the same name/spelling.
<Hew> I thought perhaps you wouldn't have guessed because I'm up at crazy non-Australian hours :P
<BUGabundo_work> eheh
<BUGabundo_work> there are crazy people all around
<BUGabundo_work> maco stays up until 7/8am... how would guess that
<thefish> hello, are the alpha-2 cd images still being uploaded?
<Pici> thefish: They are still being tested.
<thefish> ok cheers Pici
<thefish> https://wiki.kubuntu.org/JauntyJackalope/TechnicalOverview
<thefish> that says where to download them from
<thefish> all links from that are dead
<thefish> other pages also link to the cdimage server for alpha-2
<Pici> thefish: http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/build/kubuntu/all
<thefish> cheers Pici, i guess this is very similar to the dailies
<thefish> are they supposed to be released today?
<Pici> thefish: The timeline actually says yesterday, but I haven't been following the QA process for the images so I'm not sure what exactly is going on.
<thefish> ah it will probably be soon
<thefish> was wondering about editing those pages
<thefish> but as i press save, they will become available
<BUGabundo_work> thefish: why not !daily ?
<BUGabundo_work> !daily
<ubottu> Daily builds of the CD images of the current development version of Ubuntu are available at http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily/current/ and http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/current/
<thefish> BUGabundo_work: because the wiki pages dont point to them
<thefish> i downloaded a daily after i saw alpha2 wasnt there :)
<BUGabundo_work> okay
<BUGabundo_work> have a nice weekend
<tretle> I read somewhere that packagekit would be the default for kubuntu jaunty, will it be the default for ubuntu jaunty too?
<tretle> http://web.mornfall.net/blog/farewell__44___adept.html
<tretle> this is where i got the info
<x1250> does anyone else has problems with gnome-settings-daemon? It does not run. Version is 2.25.2-0ubuntu3.
<x1250> I'm sticked with a default gnome look.
<_Zeus_> Hi, I'm running Jaunty, and for some reason I can't install nvidia-glx-* without removing xserver-xorg and derivitaves
<x1250> _Zeus_, apt-get or aptitude should say why?
<_Zeus_> http://paste.ubuntu.com/88740/
<x1250> apt-get user?
<x1250> what does aptitude say?
<x1250> did you do a apt-get dist-upgrade before?
<_Zeus_> x1250: what do you mean user?
<x1250> if you use apt-get to upgrade jaunty
<_Zeus_> i did do dist-upgrade
<_Zeus_> yes, i think so
<x1250> _Zeus_, X is broken, there are some dependency problems in the repo right now. I guess some bad things on your side when you made your apt-get dist-upgrade. Does this happen if you install another package (not the nvidia one)?
<_Zeus_> nope
<x1250> _Zeus_, this may help: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1011847
<x1250> it seems to be related at least
<pupolupilous> any clue on when alpha2 will be available?
<SwedeMike> you mean outside of what the release schedule says?
<SwedeMike> oh, it was supposed to be released yesterday.
<Volkodav> anybody tried xfce 4.6 beta 2 yet ?
<DrHalan> hey, hows alpha 2 you guys? :)
<_Zeus_> is it out yet?
<DrHalan> ah damn dec 20th right?
<DrHalan> so hows jaunty in general i didn't have the opportunity yet to check it out
<pupolupilous> and poof, alpha2 becomes available
<DrHalan> pupolupilous: pardon me?
<pupolupilous> i was attempting to download 9.04 alpha2 , but it wasn't available yet, and then soon enough it showed up
<_Zeus_> DrHalan: Jaunty is fairly stable
<_Zeus_> *knock on wood*
<DrHalan> :P
<DrHalan> well it is just debian import atm i guess isn't it _Zeus_?
<_Zeus_> pretty much, yes, but that can get pretty hairy in itself
<DrHalan> yeah sure cause it is from unstable
<andersk> When I switch to virtual console 1 with Ctrl+Alt+F1, what might be causing an immediate switch back to virtual console 7?
<genii> andersk: No valid shells... you may not have 7 vt ...
<andersk> It only happens sometimes.  If I switch to console 1 twice, it almost always sticks the second time.
<genii> Same thing with 2 thru 6 as well?
<andersk> I haven't tried.  I'll get back to you on that.
<andersk> Yes.  I just reproduced it with 7 -> 2.
<DanaG> andersk: Happens to me too.
<DanaG> And then if I hit ctrl-c.... the X server ITSELF gets the SIGINT... and quits.
<crimsun> consolekit.
<andersk> Ah.  This is bug 271962.  Thanks.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 271962 in consolekit "VT-switching from X returns you to X the first time" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/271962
<DanaG> Oh yeah, I did figure out why I kept getting fglrx hanging with "ASIC hang happened" -- my GPU is defective.
<DanaG> I'm sending the laptop in to HP to get it fixed.
#ubuntu+1 2008-12-20
<DanaG> It may also be the motherboard, but that's for them to figure out; there's only so much I can do myself.
<DanaG> s/can/should/
<DanaG> Here's what fglrx currently does when the asic hangs: prints a trace to dmesg, then makes Xorg hang, eat cpu, and become unkillable.
<DanaG> ... oh yeah, and then the system won't shut down normally.
<DanaG> ssh still works, but shutdown hangs at killing, I think.
<DanaG> What I'd rather it do: CRASH / kill the x server (instead of hanging it), and then not let it start again.
<DanaG> At least then I wouldn't have to revert to ssh to shut it down.
<yoyoned> I just tried to install alpha2 using the alternate install images.  My USB keyboard is not working.  Any ideas?
<genii> yoyoned: Use a ps2->usb converter?
<yoyoned> yoyoned: no ps2 ports
<genii> yoyoned: I'd say load the usbhid and usbkbd drivers but it's hard to do without an input method...
<yoyoned> genii: is there a way to load drivers from grub?
<genii> yoyoned: Possibly in the kernel load line if you edit it
<ethana2> #kubuntu+1 redirects here I see
<ethana2> does Kubuntu Jaunty alpha 2 have KDE4.2beta2?
<ethana2> ...and is 64 bit flash and java browser plugin available for installation by 9.04 instances yet?
<ethana2> I'm trying to decide whether or not to test this alpha and if so, which images to get
<RAOF> Yes, and yes.
<ethana2> YES
<DanaG> Frankly, I like having the separation nspluginwrapper gives me.
<DanaG> Even on a 32-bit install... I want to wrap around Flash so it can't crash Firefox.
<ethana2> RAOF: With 9.04, I think I'm going to go both KDE and 64 bit
 * ethana2 torrents Kubuntu x64
<ethana2> erm
<ethana2> Isn't the tracker supposed to seed when there are no peers?
<ethana2> well it /should/ whether or not it's supposed to..  *downloads iso directly*
<DanaG> Well, at places like boxtorrents.com, the tracker does not store any files -- but for a Linux distro, I'd certainly expect it to do so.
<ethana2> perhaps I just didn't give it enough time
<ethana2> odd, I don't think my CD drive hibernated right or something
 * ethana2 restarts
<maco> why would gnome autostart an application that is disabled in the sessions autostart list? this has actually been happening since intrepid, but i just realized now that tomboy's not in my autostart list, and i'm on jaunty now, so i guess i need to ask here
<maco> ARGH! evolution hates a *specific* email. i can open any other email and be fine. try to open that one or move it to the trash or anything, and BAM it crashes
<maco> very very reproducibly
<crimsun> are you using your custom build or jaunty's?
<maco> jaunty's
<crimsun> get a bt for seb =)
<maco> i never installed my custom build
<maco> and it turned out that i was trying to fix somethng that was already fixed in trunk :P
<narcarsiss> change list?
<naught101> has anyone noticed that firefox looks crap in kubuntu jaunty?
<naught101> I installed qtcurve and it setill looks bad
<naught101> stil
<naught101> still... argh
<naught101> infact, all my gtk apps look horrible - qtcurve doesn't seem to be working....
<naught101> brb
<uniscript> I realise that normally debian style releases only support going from release n to release n+1
<Hew> uniscript: and lts_release n to lts_release n+1 :-)
<rsk> games are extremly slow after the latest update
<rsk> where should i start to investigate
<RAOF> What card?
<rsk> 9100 pro
<rsk> http://pastebin.com/m472a9bc3
<rsk> 01:00.0 VGA compatible controller: ATI Technologies Inc Radeon R200 QM [Radeon 9100]
<rsk> RAOF: xv in mplayer works fine
<rsk> so dunno where it's pinching
<RAOF> I'd guess mesa :)
<rsk> i guess but that was not update in the last batch
<rsk> updated*
<rsk> a bug report is fine too?
<rsk> i guess Boo.
<BUGabundo> quick question
<BUGabundo> how do I change the language, in the terminal, for the next app startup?
<BUGabundo> I would like to launch gnucash in portuguese, while the system is English
<loic-m> in a terminal, type export LANG="XX_XX.UTF-8"
<loic-m> where xx_XX correspond to the locale you want
<BUGabundo> thanks
<loic-m> then launch the app from this terminal (you can also create a script with the same command and make a shortcut to it)
<loic-m> xx_XX note xx is lowercase, XX upercase
<BUGabundo>  WARN <Gtk> Locale not supported by C library. 	Using the fallback 'C' locale.
<BUGabundo> export LANG=PT_pt.UTF-8
<loic-m> pt_PT.UTF8
<BUGabundo> ok
 * BUGabundo chanching
<loic-m> first is language, second is contry
<loic-m> you can put everything on the same command line, separate with ;
<BUGabundo> got it
<BUGabundo> bug gnucash is only partilly translated!
<BUGabundo> let me check brazil
<BUGabundo> br_PT would work?
<BUGabundo> nope
<BUGabundo> wrong localle
<loic-m> pt_BR maybe, please re-read my comments ;)
<BUGabundo> eehh
<BUGabundo> stupid me
<loic-m> just connect using the locale you want and type locale in a terminal
<BUGabundo> it works
<BUGabundo> and a lot more translated
<loic-m> Check you installed the language support fully, update, and if some bits are untranslated that mean you can contribute ;)
<BUGabundo> I know! I've done a few translations my self
<BUGabundo> I have full language support installed
<BUGabundo> I always check that... specially for new users
<loic-m> I tried to do a bit in launchpad, but never understood how to get them included/accepted/whatever
<BUGabundo> because of that bug with installer and 1st boot/update
<BUGabundo> that nevers installs the languages
<BUGabundo> I think its almost fixed for Jaunty
<BUGabundo> but Ibex still suffers from it
 * BUGabundo can't find that bug on LP
<rsk> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/309991
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 309991 in ubuntu "Ezquake terribly slow after latest batch of updates" [Undecided,New]
<papul> hi. is jaunty=9.04
<rsk> papul: ya
<papul> rsk, have you tried it.
<rsk> no im using it
<BUGabundo> I'm using it too
<papul> rsk, any bugs?
<rsk> i have one bug
<rsk> 309991 on launchpad
<BUGabundo> only one'
<BUGabundo> ??
<rsk> yes i only have one bug in jaunty
<BUGabundo> lucky you
<BUGabundo> what is it?
<rsk> the one i said i had
<BUGabundo> bug 30991
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 30991 in crack-attack "crack-attack sounds not included" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/30991
<rsk> no
<rsk> bug 309991
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 309991 in ubuntu "Ezquake terribly slow after latest batch of updates" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/309991
<rsk> missed a 9 )(
<BUGabundo> lol
<rsk> any channel where i can get bugs triaged?
<charlie-tca> #ubuntu-bugs
<legodude> hi everyone, I may be doing something stupid but when I try to install nvidia-glx-180 I get a huge list of packages that are to be removed
<legodude> and it doesn
<legodude> and it doesn't strike me as correct
<rsk> legodude: type apt-get upgrade in a terminal and pastebin the output
<legodude> http://pastebin.com/d1f3a2fde
<legodude> I did an upgrade from intrepid to get to jaunty
<legodude> so I don't know if that is causing any problems
<rsk> oh
<rsk> should be fine.
<legodude> let me pastebin from trying to install the nvidia drivers
<legodude> okay, that link should have the output
<legodude> it may be correct, it just feels wrong to me
<Turl> hi
<Turl> any new features to be included in jaunty?
<rsk> Turl: no we skipped features this time around ;:)
<Turl> didn't get what you said :p sorry but I'm not a native speaker
<loic-m> Turl: Xorg will be dropped in favour of a text-only mode, which will ba an evolved console that can even run Gimp with ASCII-Art. It should solve most of the problems people have with graphic cards, monitors and Linux
<loic-m> s/ba/be
<rsk> =)
<Turl> loic-m: what a good joke ;)
<loic-m> no more Gnome/KDE problems. Amaroks run great. And we won't have to care about Flash bugs anymore
<Turl> :p
<rsk> compiz an asci. yey
<Turl> any possibility of including 6
<rsk> in*
<Turl> 64bit flash* in jaunty?
<rsk> there should be Turl
<rsk> now that it's released a while ago
<Turl> I'm not using jaunty, but I think it would be great if you included it
<Turl> I'll fill in a bug for it's inclusion if you confirm me it's not already there rsk
<rsk> let me search for it
<Turl> install flashplugin-nonfree and check which version it fetches
<rsk> i'm on x86_32 so that won't do any good
<Turl> hm I se
<Turl> see*
<legodude> is nvidia-glx-180 the correct package for nvidia jaunty drivers?
<Turl> I've reported it
<Turl> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/flashplugin-nonfree/+bug/310031
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 310031 in flashplugin-nonfree "[jaunty] Ubuntu should install 64bit flash when installing flashplugin-nonfree on 64bit systems" [Undecided,New]
<hubuntu> nice bug  number ;)
<Turl> yep :p
<Turl> bug #310013 is better though
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 310013 in compiz "[jaunty] newly opened large windows are not redrawn with compiz enabled" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/310013
<crimsun> Turl: uh, please check the current jaunty source package _before_ filing
<crimsun>   * New upstream release (LNX 10,0,15,3).
<crimsun>   * Support native 64bit flash plugin (LNX 10,0,21,1):
<crimsun>     http://labs.adobe.com/downloads/flashplayer10.html
<crimsun>   * debian/postinst: switch to SHA1 sums, handle alternate unpack dir.
<loic-m> crimsun, do you have any idea if the package will reach Intrepid, or if it's just a matter or dl the source/rebuild else?
<crimsun> loic-m: you could always request a backport
<Daemonik> With Ubuntu, OpenOffice has the ability to export files as fodt (flat XML) files. A vanilla copy of OpenOffice from Sun doesn't do this. Where is the functionality for this added (source code)? What looks like is the CVS repo for Flat XML on OpenOffice.org is empty. :-\
<MarkTraceur> Hi all so er um I...broke my laptop....
<MarkTraceur> It ran out of juice in the middle of upgrading to Jaunty...
<MarkTraceur> I really just need to figure out how to restart the upgrade with apt-get, anyone know how?
<MarkTraceur> The wiki says sudo vi /etc/apt/sources.list ; sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get dist-upgrade, but what do I add to my sources?
<cwillu> MarkTraceur, sources will still be the jaunty sources if the upgrade got that far before it crashed
<MarkTraceur> So I can just run the dist-upgrade and it should start from the beginning?
<cwillu> I believe so
<cwillu> I'd expect your sources.list to have a bunch of jaunty's showing instead of intrepid
<loic-m> crimsun: I don't really want a backport, just to know if i can make a package easily myself if I want to try it (then maybe ask for a backport if it's really good?). I prefer to ask for bp only when stuff doesn't work
<crimsun> loic-m: in that case you could just use the jaunty package directly, but why don't you test the backport procedure? it helps everyone and not just you.
<MarkTraceur> cwillu: The sources look like they are jaunty, and I know something is not working because KDE won't start, but the dist-upgrade won't work
<MarkTraceur> apt-get check doesn't turn anything up either
<cwillu> MarkTraceur, "won't work"?
<loic-m> crimsun: I've already a backport request pending (wacom-tools), and I'd rather get that one done than start a backport request for something that's just due to a geecky desire to try sthing new ;)
<crimsun> loic-m: it's not as if one can't file multiple backport requests
<crimsun> at least those two are orthogonal
<loic-m> crimsun: Yes, but then I'd request 1000 backports because I want to try Jaunty ;) (and I'm actually going to try it, just need to burn the iso now. I won't mind requestiong the bp for flash if ppl are interested, but as for wacom first I need to see if it build and try if there's no regressions
<MarkTraceur> cwillu, it doesn't do anything...it says there's one package to *not* be upgraded but that's not helpful at all.
<loic-m> crimsun: the flashplugin-nonfree packages build fine for Intrepid. I've opened Bug #310061 and attached the .dsc, .changes and amd64/i386 packages. The amd64 works for me.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 310061 in intrepid-backports "Please backport flashplugin-nonfree to Intrepid (at least for amd64)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/310061
<cwillu> MarkTraceur, sudo apt-get install ubuntu-desktop (or kubuntu-desktop, whichever)
<MarkTraceur> OK
<MarkTraceur> I have to head out but I'll start that now
<MarkTraceur> Thanks
<manzur> hello
<manzur> what is the topic in here (jaunty jackalope?
<loic-m> that's it. Usually with a bit of mustard
<CarlFK> aptitude build-dep transcode did its thing. so why do I get: dpkg-checkbuilddeps: Unmet build dependencies: libgtk1.2-dev liblzo-dev dpatch
#ubuntu+1 2008-12-21
<DanaG> Oh heya, if I install the new native 64-bit Flash 10, can I still have it run through nspluginwrapper?
<crimsun> yes, but you will experience instability.
<DanaG> Oh, is that why Flash was always crashy when I had 32-bit nspluginwrapper?
<DanaG> What I mean is, on my 32-bit install, I used nspluginwrapper because it prevented Flash crashes from taking down Firefox.
<DanaG> I'd like to still have that separation.
<crimsun> nspluginwrapper was broken for a good long while
<crimsun> it's much better now
<crimsun> the native 64-bit Flash plugin is very stable, however.
<DanaG> Ah, so perhaps I'll try without nspluginwrapper.  Thanks.
<crimsun> jaunty's default flashplugin-nonfree installs the native 64-bit plugin on amd64.
<DanaG> Cool.
<DanaG> Here's something weird that happened with PulseAudio today: it was generating quite a lot of network traffic, even though I wasn't playing anything across the network.  It only went away when I disabled discoverability on both systems that had it enabled.
<DanaG> Ooh, I have Fedora 10 in a VM... and the new splash thingy is nice.
<acron17> hi there
<acron17> the way to activate shmconfig as described for intrepid isn't working for jaunty
<acron17> how can i activate shmcibfig in jaunty?
<acron17> sry: how to activate shmconfig in jaunty?
<DanaG> Oh yeah, instead of putting touchpad stuff in xorg.conf, it now goes in a hal fdi file (/etc/hal/fdi/policy/)
<DanaG> example:
<DanaG> www.csc.calpoly.edu/~dgoyette/19-synaptics.fdi
<crimsun> yes, as with intrepid
<acron17> sry. i doesn't work that way (for me at least)
<acron17> i just upgraded from intrepid to jaunty. i have a shmconfig.fdi as described in the help-docs
<acron17> it worked in intrepid but it stop working in jaunty...
<acron17> if activation of shmconfig should work like in intrepid can someone give me hint how to find out whats going wrong?
<DanaG> acron17: perhaps the ordering of the fdi files has changed?
<DanaG> Heh, I fgiured out a nice way to crash Dasher: just try to enter aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.. and so on.
<DanaG> It'll stop you for a while, but then you go down to other letters then backspace up again.... and you can make it crash.
<DanaG> =Ã¾
<DanaG> Granted, writing aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa is not a normal use case for Dasher.
<DanaG> =Ã¾
<acron17> DanaG: thanks for your answer but what would that mean?
<acron17> i have three files in /etc/hal/fdi/policy/  appletouch.fdi preferences.fdi shmconfig.fdi
<acron17> appletouch and shmconfig have both a line to activate shmconfig...
<acron17> would hal log something about the fdi files somewhere?
<DanaG> You should give them a number that puts them after the default touchpad fdi file somewhere in /usr/share/hal
<acron17> hmm. seems like the synaptics driver isn't loaded by xorg...
<acron17> gotta restart x
<acron17> synaptics is now loaded but that didn't do the trick :-/
<acron17> DanaG: it's getting quite late here, i'm off. thanks for your answers so far. bye
<naught101> anyone managed to install digikam in jaunty?
<DanaG> Oh yeah, I figured out how to separate the internal speakers and the headphone jack from each other in the Vista drivers for my ADI1984 chip, but without a PulseAudio for Windows, it's more of a hassle than an enhancement.
<naught101> if a package can't be installed from the ubuntu repos due to wrong dependancy versions, is that a bug? should it be reported on launchpad?
<naught101> does anyone else have a lack of thumbnails in konqueror/dolphin?
<Hew> naught101: If the dependencies of a package are wrong, yes that is a bug that should be reported on Launchpad.
<naught101> cool, thanks hew
<marijus> hello, why do i get aiglx: screen 0 is not dri2 capable in my xorg log on intel i915?
<gnomefreak> marijus: in intrepid?
<gnomefreak> seing as xorg is missing packages atm
<marijus> jaunty
<frandavid100> hiya
<frandavid100> is it still possible to download alpha 1?
<Hew> frandavid100: Not from cdimage.ubuntu.com, but perhaps the torrents still work or there are some mirrors that still have it somewhere. The question is, why would you want alpha 1 rather than alpha 2?
<frandavid100> because I can't get my nvidia drivers to work on alpha 2 :(+
<frandavid100> it asks to remove xorg to install them
<frandavid100> so I'd rather revert to alpha 1, install the drivers, then hold the xorg updates until that's fixed
<Hew> frandavid100: Then you should be using Intrepid. If you were to install Jaunty alpha 1 you wouldn't be able to upgrade, negating the point of using the development release.
<frandavid100> I can install alpha 1 and update all packages save xorg, though
<Hew> frandavid100: Can you use nv or nouveau until xorg / nvidia is fixed?
<Hew> frandavid100: If you want stability I really think you should be using Intrepid.
<frandavid100> it seems nouveau is not installable, for some reason
<frandavid100> as for nv, yeah I'll have to use it if I can't find alpha 1
<frandavid100> I'd rather have 3d acceleration though!
<emonkey> Hi there, I've got a problem with nvidia and xorg, it looks like there's a conflict between the packages. I can't install nvidia-glx without removing xorg. Any ideas?
<Hew> emonkey: "A new XServer, version 1.6, is included in Alpha-2. The binary proprietary drivers -fglrx and -nvidia are not yet supported for this server and will exhibit various serious issues if run against it. Users of these drivers are encouraged to wait or to switch to the corresponding open source drivers (-ati and -nv respectively) in the meantime. bug 308410"
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 308410 in nvidia-graphics-drivers-177 "Latest Xorg removes nvidia driver ... conflicting xserver-xorg-video-4" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/308410
<emonkey> Hew, thank you
<kallu> what is the problem with plasma .. its eating 300MB of memory after a couple of hours of usage ... is it normal?
<sparr> i moved my sources back to intrepid after fetching some things from jaunty
<joaopinto> sparr, that is asking for troubles
<CarlFK> sparr: take a look at dget - won't keep you from messing things up, just makes it easier :)
<loic-m> spar, prevu is your friend
<CarlFK> I have an external usb drive, simple one ext2 partition.  plug it into ibex, it gets mounted.  plug it int jaunty, all I get in dmesg is: [88267.904016] usb 4-1: new high speed USB device using ehci_hcd and address 6; [88268.039713] usb 4-1: configuration #1 chosen from 1 choice
<CarlFK> should I report that to lp, or will it get taken care of anyway?
<nekostar> so i say this every round... how broken is this particular alpha?
<sparr> CarlFK: does that interface with apt-get build-deps ?
<sparr> i switched to jaunty for a bit to get some build dependencies for an intrepid package
<nekostar> hrm ok note taken
<CarlFK> sparr: hmm... don't know.  It's the same kinda thing, so I bet there is something like it
<CarlFK> nekostar: assuming you could graph brokeness over time, I think it is about the same profile as any other build :)
<CarlFK> It has it's ups and downs, and there is always the chance of total meltdown.  that chance is higher in the middle of the term, so about now :)
<nekostar> CarlFK lol yeah.. think i'm gonna give a vm a try, might do a simple install or something ^^
<nhandler> sparr: Why would you need jaunty packages to satisfy intrepid build-depends?
<sparr> nhandler: poor packaging management
<nhandler> sparr: What package?
<sparr> avr-gcc
<sparr> gcc-avr i mean
<nhandler> And what build-depend did you need from jaunty?
<sparr> binutils-avr
<sparr> at the time, gcc-avr depended on binutils-avr 2.18, and the highest in intrepid was 2.16
<sparr> it seems to have been fixed now
<nhandler> At what time are you talking about?
<sparr> err
<sparr> sorry
<sparr> depended on binutils-avr 2.18-4
<sparr> and the highest in intrepid was 2.18-3
<sparr> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gcc-avr/+bug/297373
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 297373 in gcc-avr "depends on nonexistent binutils-avr (>= 2.18-4)" [Undecided,New]
<sparr> now it depends on >= 2.16.1-1 which is [more] correct
<nhandler> Ok, as long as it is fixed. You might want to close that bug report now
<sparr> didnt know it was fixed til just now
<sparr> since ive got 2.18-4 installed
<sparr> i dont think i can close bugs?
<sparr> unless i am overlooking it
<CarlFK> sparr: click the 'V' next to status
<sparr> aha
<sparr> thanks
<CarlFK> jaunty isn't doing [160748.676236] usb-storage: device scan complete
<CarlFK> how can I force that on a device that is plugged in?
<sparr> ive found usb auto mounting comes and goes on approximately a one-release cycle...
<CarlFK> heh
<sparr> didnt work at all in edgy or gutsy, worked in feisty and hardy
<CarlFK> it isn't even assigning it a /dev node
<sparr> hit or miss in intrepid, depending on what mood the new kde crap is in
<x1250> anyone also having very slow 2d with xserver-xorg-video-ati ?
<Skiessi> !info ufw
<ubottu> ufw (source: ufw): program for managing a netfilter firewall. In component main, is standard. Version 0.23.2 (jaunty), package size 42 kB, installed size 332 kB
<DanaG> great... dosfsck just truncated my firefox preferences file to 0 bytes.
<DanaG> Thaaanks, dosfsck,
<DanaG> .
<DanaG> /usr/bin/X11/X: symbol lookup error: /usr/lib/xorg/modules/drivers//radeon_drv.so: undefined symbol: exaDriverAlloc
<DanaG> Had to switch to radeonhd driver; at least that works fine.
 * WelshDragon test
 * WelshDragon asd
<nekostar> dsa
<nekostar> tset
<acron17> hi there. i activated SHMConfig (for synaptics) as described here: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SynapticsTouchpad
<WelshDragon> thanks nekostar =P
<nekostar> nbd :D
<acron17> that did work with intrepid but fails as i upgraded to jaunty
#ubuntu+1 2009-12-14
<cwillu_at_work> thought:  making it easier to test packages from proposed releases is a good thing.  ppa's may be useful for this, but I don't think they're the answer of themselves
<cwillu_at_work> perhaps something like making use of popularity contest, such that people who have particular packages installed get prompted that "a proposed update is available, did you want to help test it?"
<cwillu_at_work> that way the more obscure packages still get exposure, and the users testing them are more aware of their place in the grand scheme of things
<cwillu_at_work> a more automated backports system could therefore be useful, although it can only help so much with version dependencies that can't be satisfied without a bunch of other updates
 * cwillu_at_work continues whittling away on this computer case
 * cwillu_at_work wonders how much of that BUGabundo got
<BUGabundo> up to the computer case
<BUGabundo> I'm always listening to you, my friend
<BUGabundo> even when not on IRC :)
 * cwillu_at_work is creeped :p
 * cwillu_at_work BUGabundo what's your schedule like over the next week?
<cwillu_at_work> see, that's what happens when you type /me instead of /m :p
<BUGabundo> eh
<emma> In Lucid, in 'the ubuntu software center' under programming, there's an ap there called "DrPython" that is obviously based on DrScheme, but DrScheme is not in the Ubuntu Software Center, why not? Is that a bug?
<cwillu_at_work> emma, why is it obvious that it's based on drscheme?
<cwillu_at_work> """DrPython is a highly customizable text editor geared towards writing programs in Python quickly and easily. It is written in Python using the wxPython toolkit (which makes use of the Scintilla text control internally)."""
<emma> cwillu_at_work: the logo for DrPython is the logo for DrScheme except they have drawn a crude python over the top of it.
<cwillu_at_work> copying a logo doesn't mean the application is at all related
<cwillu_at_work> other than inspiration or whatever
<emma> I think DrScheme should be in there as well.
<cwillu_at_work> oh, I see what you mean now;  still not convinced that drpython's inclusion implies that drscheme needs to be included, but it's suggestive
<cwillu_at_work> can't hurt to file a bug against the drscheme package
<emma> cwillu_at_work: I'm not against python but when I am looking for DrScheme and it has DrPython that feels like a bigger loss than if you just didn't have DrScheme.
 * cwillu_at_work notes for the record that drscheme is in synaptic
<cwillu_at_work> so it's not a loss so much as a 'it didn't show up where it was expected'
<i_is_broke> < should get a book on python...and learn:D
<cwillu_at_work> i_is_broke, http://tinyurl.com/thinkcspy
<cwillu_at_work> the above is strongly recommended by the #python folks;  you can get it in dead-tree format if you need, but the full text is also available as html and pdf
<i_is_broke> cwillu_at_work, ah thanks ill look into it..
<cwillu_at_work> #python in general is full of very good advice
<i_is_broke> i havent taken a computer course since high school, and thats been over 25 years ago.:(
<cwillu_at_work> that's good intro programming material in general; there's also stuff if you're familiar with other languages, but if it's been a long while, probably best to start with the above :)
<i_is_broke> yeah the last ive seen in programming was apple 2e and dos. :(
<cwillu_at_work> i_is_broke, I'd also strongly recommend that your first couple projects should be modifying existing programs;  you'll gain a better sense of style that way, rather than learning a bunch of bad habits
<i_is_broke> cwillu_at_work, i already found that out, when i first came to linux with dos.
<i_is_broke> my middle daughter is taking java in college and she is suppose to teach me when she gets threw the course..so im cheating there..lol
<cwillu_at_work> well, in all honesty, they don't tend to teach great habits in college :p
<i_is_broke> well, one of these days i would love to go back to school and get the degree i should have..been a tech now for over 15 years working with my dad, but mostly on window based computers. so linux and imacs are still new to me.
<cwillu_at_work> there's a lot of thing you don't learn without dealing with large code bases, and I don't know how big a project would get;  dealing with an existing project gets you a bunch of free stuff that isn't necessarily part of a comp sci degree: version control, communications, ui design, coding standards, etc
<i_is_broke> im not to worried about a title, just the idea, that i went to school took there test and got a piece of paper saying i did it.
<i_is_broke> ive learned more by hacking around with these upgrades here lately then my daughter has in a year of school.
<cwillu_at_work> well, you _are_ dealing with different topics
<cwillu_at_work> computer science isn't about computers
<i_is_broke> yeah its weird, you would think it would.
<i_is_broke> i get a book from the local c.c. here in town..and have seen that.
<i_is_broke> but anyways, this is a little offtopic. sorry.
<i_is_broke> ok, where do i look for post on bug reports people are having for lucid?
<i_is_broke> launchpad?
<RAOF_> Famous quote: computer science isn't about computers in the same way astronomy isn't about telescopes.
<RAOF_> i_is_broke: Yup.  Preferably using apport, because that'll fill in a bunch of useful stuff for you.
<i_is_broke> well i want to see if anyone else is having the same issue as i am?
<RAOF_> Search lauchpad, yes.
<RAOF_> That's the Ubuntu bugtracker, so... :)
<i_is_broke> and i really need to know how to debug stuff better, so i could be more helpful.
<cwillu_at_work> i_is_broke, I usually just ubuntu-bug <package>, and go through the steps;  one of them includes an automatic search for similar bugs which works better than the default launchpad search in my experience :)
<RAOF_> You might also want to have a browse of the lucid development forum ( http://ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=377 ), but that's (a) not a bug tracker, and (b) isn't a developers hangout.
<i_is_broke> cwillu_at_work, well im not sure whats doing it? im having an issue with memory usage when booting the computer sometimes. and i cant figure out whats using it, i have even installed atop and it just shows very little memory being used.
<cwillu_at_work> how do you know it's an issue with memory usage?
<i_is_broke> but gkrellm shows its using almost all of it but 150 meg and it acts like its sluggish.
<i_is_broke> hold on ill get on the lucid box and see if i can make it do it again.
<cwillu_at_work> you understand the difference between resident/vm/allocated?
<cwillu_at_work> and the effects of shared memory?
<i_is_broke> to some extent..i know what allocated and vm are and shared memory is like if i was using onboard video.
<RAOF_> And the effects of disc cache, which will generally take up whatever memory is not used by applications.
<cwillu_at_work> re: shared, that's not what I meant
<i_is_broke> ok then please explain?
<cwillu_at_work> shared is actually memory is counted against a process's usage, but is actually being shared across multiple processes (i.e, their memory usages will add up to more than your available memory)
<i_is_broke> ok
<i_is_broke> that i understand, but what is resident?
<cwillu_at_work> in memory
<cwillu_at_work> as opposed to on disk or allocated but untouched (and therefore not really allocated :p)
<i_is_broke> ? on disk, wouldnt that be swap? and untouched wouldnt that be free?
<cwillu_at_work> no
<i_is_broke> this is my issue, i have a dual p3 866 with 512 ram, and sometimes when i boot i get 150 meg of free ram. which makes the computer really doggish..but if i reboot i usually get 390 megs of free ram. (i use lxde or xfce).
<i_is_broke> but it does the same in kde and gnome as well.
<i_is_broke> ive checked them all.
<cwillu_at_work> s/which makes the/and the/
<cwillu_at_work> when its doggish, check in top if anything is using >95% cpu, and/or the system reports a significant percentage of %wa (time stuck doing io)
<cwillu_at_work> not sure if atop shows that data, might have to use plain top
<i_is_broke> ok will check if i can get it to do it again..it dont do it all the time..
<cwillu_at_work> do you have multiple partitions on the drive?
<RAOF_> Having a different amount of ram free isn't going to make your system faster or slower; it's only going to be a problem if you run out of ram and start hitting the swap.  Then it'll thrash, and the system will basically die.
<i_is_broke> yeah i just rebooted it and it came back up with 358 meg of free memory.
<i_is_broke> it starts into the swap, so i reboot usually.
<cwillu_at_work> if you did, it could be as simple as a fsck running on a non-root partition
<cwillu_at_work> using swap isn't a bad thing
<cwillu_at_work> and having truly free memory _is_ a bad thing
<RAOF_> If it's swapping out stuff that isn't being used, yeah, there's no problem with that.
<i_is_broke> well i know that. just that its so slow i cant get it to be more then aggravating.
<cwillu_at_work> okay, but you're not getting to the root causes :)
<i_is_broke> i know, thats what im trying to figure out how to do.
<RAOF_> Unless the system is thrashing to a halt the slowness is likely to be due to something else.
<i_is_broke> well im game to find out what it is and change it thats for sure.
<cwillu_at_work> you know how to log into it via ssh?
<i_is_broke> um learning
<i_is_broke> ah it just came back up.
<cwillu_at_work> rather than rebooting it when it start getting slow, log into it via ssh (lower resource requirements than a full x session, meaning it should stay somewhat more responsive than the x session)
<i_is_broke> well i can do the tsc but im still not figuring out ssh yet...so im still reading and learning about that.
<oldude67> this is me i_is_broke
<oldude67> and right now top says that xorg in root is using the  most memory and cpu usage, but when i get the wild config going on it bounces everywhere.
<oldude67> im going to try and see if i have any updates, that usually makes it act stupid.
<oldude67> ok reboot
<oldude67> ok i got it to do it again...it says i have 91meg of ram free.
<oldude67> let me see if i can pastebin top
<oldude67> !pastebin
<ubottu> For posting multi-line texts into the channel, please use http://paste.ubuntu.com | To post !screenshots use http://tinyurl.com/imagebin | !pastebinit to paste directly from  command line | Make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the channel topic
<oldude67> http://paste.ubuntu.com/340955/
<oldude67> thats the url for top. anything else you want to look at as its doing this now?
<oldude67> ok rebooting now...going way to slow...
<angelus> hi, is there a way i can a) get Lucid from a .torrent or b) update Karmic to Lucid w/o a .iso ???
<oldude67> angelus, did you do sudo aptitude update-manager -d?
<oldude67> or is it dist-upgrade?
<oldude67> i dont remember, for sure as i started mine from changing the source.list in apt to get the lucid instead of karmic.
<sal_> angelus: no torrents i'm aware of, and i dont think .iso will update, more like a new install
<sal_> like oldude67, change the source.list references from karmic to lucid
<sal_> and run your updates/upgrades from there
<sal_> check the forums
<angelus> kool thanks ....
<i_is_broke> YEAH i just learned how to ssh into my lucid box...:D im so proud of myself. now when it messes up i can see if i can do something with it.
<DanaG> argh, trying to fix grub from within a chroot...
<DanaG> grub-setup just segfaults
<RAOF_> DanaG: Yeah.  You need to bind mount at least proc & dev.
<DanaG> I did.
<DanaG> And sys, too.
<DanaG> and /dev/pts, too.
<RAOF_> Hm.  I _eventually_ managed to get update-grub to not die in my chroot.  I wonder what's wrong for you?
<DanaG> hmm, perhaps dev didn't really bind...
<RAOF_> Oh - is there any lvm/dmraid/mdadm happening?
<DanaG> nope.  just plain disk.
<DanaG> hmm, rbind instead of bind, for dev, worked.
<DanaG> ah, worked.
<DanaG> ooh, spinfinity looks nifty.
<DanaG> oh yeah, HP screwed up firewire on my laptop model:
<DanaG> GUID is 5566778811223344
<DanaG> Totally not valid.
<DanaG> ugh, for some reason, bootchart keeps eating RAM like crazy.
<DanaG> ugh, stupid thing... is via rhine ethernet just horrible?
<DanaG> CONFIG_TASK_DELAY_ACCT not enabled in kernel, cannot determine SWAPIN and IO %
<RAOF> Correct.
<DanaG> correct on which?
<RAOF> CONFIG_TASK_DELAY_ACCT not enabled in kernel.
<DanaG> ah.
<RAOF> Because there's a performance penalty, and only iotop cares.
<DanaG> ugh, pavucontrol trashes pulseaudio.
<DanaG> makes it hammer the cpu.
<DanaG> http://www.mail-archive.com/debian-x@lists.debian.org/msg81683.html
<DanaG> yargh
<Rods_Tiger> will rails be easier to install in the next version of ubuntu?
<Rods_Tiger> Ideally, I'd like to just select 'rails' and it pulls in ruby, sqlite3, and all the little nonsense that's necessary, without my having to go round searching for weeks online as to why it still isn't working properly yet.
<Rods_Tiger> For learning rails, ubuntu is definitely not recommended - it's far too hard to get working
<Rods_Tiger> also, will the next version of ubuntu be able to sort out whether it's being booted on a netbook or a big computer, and go into UNR or normal ubuntu, accordingly?
<DanaG> hmm, playing audio over bluetooth, from one computer to another.
<DanaG> interesting.
<DanaG> http://www.alsa-project.org/db/?f=54490002f30be4fe0ffd43cb1d76f20f30eeb95d
<DanaG> hmm, removed .asoundrc...
<DanaG> http://www.alsa-project.org/db/?f=00a3614f15a5d3bb016aa7ccabbed09ea70ef388
<DanaG> this is one with the wonky volume control.
<indus> hi
<indus> is alpha one any good
<DanaG> ugh, bootchart is devouring all my memory.
<DanaG> er, 60% of it, rather.
<DanaG> grr, bootchart has been sitting there for like 15 minutes, eating RAM and hammering the hard drive.
<DanaG> http://users.csc.calpoly.edu/~dgoyette/bootcharts/GLaDOS-lucid-20091214-1.png
<DanaG> ugh, no wonder... look how huge-mongous that image is!
<coz_> hey guys  just tried  nvclock_gtk and am getting segmentation fault   ...anyone else tried this?
<Organized> hey guys
<Organized> what command to update kubuntu 9.10 to 10.04a1?
<jpds> do-release-upgrade -d
<BluesKaj> Howdy all
<BUGabundo_work> hey BluesKaj
<BUGabundo_work> long time no see :)
<BluesKaj> hi BUGabundo_work , yeah where ya been ?
<BUGabundo_work> i'm here everyday
<BUGabundo_work> ;:o
<BluesKaj> this room was just ressurected a few days ago , afaik :)
<BluesKaj> err resurrected
<maco> weeks
<BluesKaj> didn't bother coming around til alpha was rekeased
<BluesKaj> released
<BUGabundo_work> hye maco
<oldude67> ok, can i run desktop settings from terminal, so that i can run it with sudo? every time i reboot i have to reset all the settings including the wallpaper.
<oldude67> or is this a bug?
<i_is_broke> and can you move files or folders from one computer to the next with ssh?
<i_is_broke> if so how?
<Pici> i_is_broke: take a look at scp
<i_is_broke> Pici, ty
<i_is_broke> ill look into it.
<DanaG> weird compiz...
<DanaG> www.csc.calpoly.edu/~dgoyette/out.ogv
<i_is_broke> man scp is very vague on its description on how it works, ill have to google to learn more.
<i_is_broke> be back in a min, need to reboot.
<CosmiChaos> i have a crazy thing on my notify-osd, a orange grid and blue backgrounded title: "low -report incorrect urgency?" what is that? any idea how to get rid of it?
<Ketsuban> CosmiChaos: you need to edit a config file to disable debug mode in notify-osd. Unfortunately I can't find where I wrote down where that file is.
<Ketsuban> CosmiChaos: Found it! Edit /usr/share/dbus-1/services/org.freedesktop.Notifications.service and change "DEBUG=1" to "DEBUG=0".
<Ketsuban> Wait, hang on. This isn't the file I edited.
<Ketsuban> Argh.
<CosmiChaos> hmmm
<CosmiChaos> semms to be right doesnt it
<CosmiChaos> should i try a reboot?
<Ketsuban> No, if that change was possible then all you need to do is kill notify-osd and launch it again.
<DanaG> www.csc.calpoly.edu/~dgoyette/bootcharts/GLaDOS-lucid-20091214-3.png
<CosmiChaos> hmm where is notify-osd located?
<DanaG> hmm, is that slower than normal?
<CosmiChaos> Ketsuban, how to relaunch it? O.o
<Ketsuban> It's in /usr/lib/notify-osd.
<CosmiChaos> btw i killed it but it still works
<DanaG> yeah, it comes back; that's what the dbus service file does: makes it come back.
<CosmiChaos> seems like its auto relaunching itself
<CosmiChaos> so it still in debugging mode :(
<DanaG> oh, I see... it probably didn't reload the service definition.
<DanaG> Try logging out and then back in?
<DanaG> (shouldn't need a full reboot.)
<CosmiChaos> currently i not able to
<CosmiChaos> running critical task that needs 80 minutes
<DanaG> ah, then manually launch it: killall notify-osd && /usr/lib/notify-osd/notify-osd
<DanaG> Handy thing for non-X-based tasks: run them in 'screen'.
<CosmiChaos> notify-osd: no process found
<CosmiChaos> still uply notfier
<CosmiChaos> ugly
<CosmiChaos> wait
<DanaG> oh, and ctrl-z then 'bg' to background the new notify-osd.
<CosmiChaos> cosmichaos@cosmichaos-desktop:~$ killall notify-osdcosmichaos@cosmichaos-desktop:~$ /usr/lib/notify-osd/notify-osd
<CosmiChaos> that works seperated
<CosmiChaos> what is bg?
<CosmiChaos> but than i stoped the terminal and the old ugly one came back
<DanaG> okay, open a console again, and try:
<DanaG> killall notify-osd && /usr/lib/notify-osd/notify-osd &
<DanaG> then 'disown'
<DanaG> And then you can close the console.
<CosmiChaos> yes i did it with ALT+F2
<CosmiChaos> ;)
<CosmiChaos> hope it will stay permanent up to next boot
<DanaG> 'bg' makes the thing you stopped (with ctrl-z) resume running, but in the background (not attached to console input).
<DanaG> 'disown' detaches it from the console, so the app won't quit when the window closes.
<CosmiChaos> i have no key bg
<DanaG> 'b' 'g'
<DanaG> sorry, maybe a bit unclear there. =Ã¾
<CosmiChaos> pressing b and g does not work either, sop confusing me im done
<DanaG> bg is a command.  anyway, whatever.
<DanaG> the term for that is "job control", if you're ever curious.
<CosmiChaos> bash: bg: current: Kein solche Job.
<DanaG> ah, it's a new console, so that's why.
<funkyHat> I'm getting really poor 3d (compiz is mostly what I've tested) performance since a recent update. I have a radeon x1650, using the open source drivers
<funkyHat> Anyone got any suggestions for things to try, is it a known issue?
<mrmcq2u> Is hal being dropped completely for lucid?
<funkyHat> I think that is the plan, mrmcq2u
<mrmcq2u> gabaug is shocked :)
<funkyHat> wat. Why are the indicator applets replaced by text that just says "no indicators"?
<Brian> how stable is linx at this point
<Brian> is it good to test
<funkyHat> Depends on your hardware
<Brian> acer netbook
<funkyHat> Bear in mide that it is likely to get more broken from now, not less broken
<Brian> how so
<funkyHat> Of course it will get less broken again after that, but if you're thinking about upgrading this possibly isn't a good time
<funkyHat> As more packages are updated, new version of Gnome gets pulled in etc. stuff is bound to break
<Brian> maybe you guys can help me , i went from karmic to opensuse useing my usb to install the distro, always before i could reboot plug in the usb drive hit f12 and pick boot from usb, but after running opensuse i want to go back to check out ubuntu more but all of a sudden when i plug in my usb drive and hit f12 the usb isnt in the boot menu, it always worked before but now , out of nowhere its not in the menu
<i_is_broke> Brian, check the bios on the computer and make sure that its set to boot from usb.
<Brian> it is i just checked last time
<Brian> it only shows hdd and my harddrive
<i_is_broke> what does sudo fdisk -l show is it showing the pendrive?
<mrmcq2u> is anyone here using the client side window patch?
<webbb82> http://pastebin.com/m12e1ef4d
<webbb82> that is what fdisk -l gets
<IdleOne> How is Xorg doing today?
<webbb82> wait http://pastebin.com/m6bf94a79   this is what it says sorry
<webbb82> so yes it can see my usb drive
<DanaG> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/475259
<DanaG> grr.
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 475259 in linux "KMS doesn't play nice with vesa X driver" [Medium,Triaged]
<JontheEchidna> oh, that's why everything is funky with vesa then
<nvme> does lynx boot in 10 seconds yet ?
<DanaG> Not  for me.
<DanaG> http://users.csc.calpoly.edu/~dgoyette/bootcharts/GLaDOS-lucid-20091214-3.png
<nvme> o_O
<nvme> do you measure to the end of usplash ?
<DanaG> It's supposed to be measuring until gnome-panel finishes loading.
<IdleOne> lucid boots in about 15 seconds here
<nvme> where in this page is gnoe
<nvme> *gnome
<funkyHat> IdleOne: I'm having graphics problems. I don't know if it's the fault of Xorg or some other component though
<IdleOne> funkyHat: I ran the updates but going to wait to reboot till later tonight
<IdleOne> my ISP is really making me want to find a new ISP
<DanaG> Latest boot: http://users.csc.calpoly.edu/~dgoyette/bootcharts/GLaDOS-lucid-20091214-5.png
<nvme> IdleOne, is that with an SSD ?
<IdleOne> SSD?
<nvme> solid state disk (your 15 seconds boot)
<IdleOne> heh have no clue
<nvme> ...
<DanaG> http://users.csc.calpoly.edu/~dgoyette/bootcharts/GLaDOS-lucid-20091214-6.png
<DanaG> new boot.
<DanaG> about the same time.  Le suck.
<nvme> http://img.xrmb2.net/images/638305.png
<nvme> how does that person get 16 ... its a friggin 1.83 single core no ssd
<yofel> here my last (SSD) http://yofel.dyndns.org/ext/yofel-eee-lucid-20091214-1.png
<DanaG> it's about the same as my non-ssd.
<DanaG> whole lotta' sleeping going on there.
<DanaG> couchdb... is that like a database of furniture?
<DanaG> =Ã¾
<yofel> well, I have auto-login disabled and got distracted for a moment
<yofel> DanaG: it's used by ubuntuone-client
<DanaG> I want to know how the heck that person got 15 seconds.
<nvme> http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/1071/cowlucid2009121410.png this guy sez its a 7200rpm
<DanaG> So is mine.
<DanaG> Even "resume" takes time.
<DanaG> and uredahead is slow.
<IdleOne> ok so how do I use bootchart?
<yofel> what annoys me is that cache get's swapped out on resume here
<nvme> IdleOne, http://ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=377
 * IdleOne reads
<yofel> IdleOne: install bootchart and pybootchartgui and reboot
<DanaG> Oh, and I'm not even resuming, at all... I'm just plain booting.
<yofel> !bootchart
<ubottu> bootchart charts your machine at boot time, to install >> sudo apt-get install bootchart << the graphic is in /var/log/bootchart after the next reboot
<IdleOne> ahh so it just runs after install
<IdleOne> no commands to run
<IdleOne> ok well here goes nothing
<yofel> nope, but don't be suprized if you have 100% cpu usage on login ;)
<DanaG> For me, it also ate like 60% of my RAM for 15 minutes, one time/
<yofel> yeah, it needs more RAM the longer the boot takes (the longer the chart gets)
<DanaG> http://users.csc.calpoly.edu/~dgoyette/bootcharts/GLaDOS-lucid-20091214-1.png
<DanaG> huge one.
<DanaG> That one didn't know where to stop.
<tormod> DanaG, ureadahead did not do its job there
<DanaG> I think that was first Lucid boot.
<DanaG> But look at where it stops!
<IdleOne> http://imagebin.ca/view/6oo8SqaK.html
<DanaG> It stops where I'm running my own stuff, manually... including Wine.
<nvme> what exactly is there to "purge" in HAL ?
<DanaG> It just didn't know to stop.
<DanaG> second lucid boot: http://users.csc.calpoly.edu/~dgoyette/bootcharts/GLaDOS-lucid-20091214-2.png
<DanaG> And what's with the "sleep" in resume?
<yofel> last bootchart from my notebook (kdm was still broken there) 5200RPM HDD http://yofel.dyndns.org/pics/yofel-thinkpad-lucid-20091209-1.png
<IdleOne> ok so that says 55 seconds
<nvme> IdleOne, thats weird your disk is realllly slow in the start
<tormod> DanaG, agpmode=0 ? shouldn't it be -1 ?
<nvme> most of the people with the <20s times have their disks working at 40+ in those first 20 seconds
<DanaG> I was testing agpmode parameter essentially removed, but wanted to remind myself to set it again if need be.
<DanaG> I moved stuff from an nforce2 board (got null pointer dereference in radeon_agp_init) to a VIA board (works fine).
<tormod> DanaG, why is scim dark gray for so long?
<DanaG> Beats me.  What does dark grey even mean?
<IdleOne> I seem to have lost my user switcher button
<IdleOne> says No Indicators instead
<IdleOne> coffee!
<DanaG> I always have had troubles with slow boot.
<yofel> IdleOne: sounds like the same issue funkyHat had
<funkyHat> yofel: IdleOne: yes.
<funkyHat> That was one of my issues, anyway ;P
<DanaG> weird... my other computer does not have ANY bootcharts for since I upgraded it to lucid.
<yofel> DanaG: you did replace bootchart-java with pybootchart?
<DanaG> yup.
<yofel> hm...
<DanaG> I'm trying something: purging and then reinstalling bootchart and pybootchartgui.
<DanaG> hmm, got it a little bit shorter: http://users.csc.calpoly.edu/~dgoyette/bootcharts/GLaDOS-lucid-20091214-7.png
<DanaG> now to reboot EliteBook.
<DanaG> hmm, a whole lotta' "ureadahead-other terminated with status 4"
<tormod> DanaG, your thing boots up fast, then your desktop session seems to take forever
<DanaG> oh, and on the EliteBook, Plymouth actively refuses to display a splash.
<DanaG>  /home is a separate partition... apparently readahead can't handle it.
<DanaG> er, sreadahead.
<DanaG> Old readahead did just fine.
<tormod> er ureadahead
<DanaG> New readahead sucks.
<tormod> does plymouth work fine with radeon kms? I haven't had it pulled in yet
<DanaG> oh, and something weird on "GLaDOS": it won't reboot... it just hangs at plymouth shutdown thingy.'
<DanaG> oh, and plymouth refuses to run if it sees console= on kernel command line.
<DanaG> oh, and spinfinity theme is nifty.
<DanaG> grr, kdm is ignoring auto-login setting.
<DanaG> and plasma-desktop is not auto-starting with kde.
<yofel> DanaG: plasma-desktop does here, but knetworkmanager not
<mrmcq2u> http://blogs.gnome.org/halfline/2009/11/28/plymouth-â¶-x-transition/ <-> Whats the point of xsplash + plymouth with this advancement?
<natewiebe13> why is nvidia-glx-* conflicting with ubuntu-desktop and xorg?
<natewiebe13> anyone using nvidia?
<yofel> natewiebe13: I switched to the 195.22 beta driver from a ppa
<natewiebe13> the 195.22 driver works in lucid?
<yofel> but I thought the official drivers were updated for the new Xorg
<yofel> seems they weren't yet
<natewiebe13> im trying the 190.42 drivers from the libvdpau ppa
<yofel> natewiebe13: https://launchpad.net/~sevenmachines/+archive/nvidia this one works for me
<natewiebe13> yofel: awesome.. thanks
<DanaG> http://users.csc.calpoly.edu/~dgoyette/bootcharts/EliteBook-lucid-20091214-3.png
<DanaG> aah, different computer.
<DanaG> Much, much nicer.
<DanaG> But, still nowhere near 15 seconds.
<natewiebe13> yofel: just thinking about it, wasnt the new xorg released with alpha one?
<yofel> natewiebe13: yes, xorg 7.5 with server 1.7
<yofel> like I said, maybe the drivers weren't updated yet
<natewiebe13> why was the ppa updated to include lucid if the drivers werent updated?
<natewiebe13> seems strange to me
<DanaG> hmm... any way I can speed up my boot?
<natewiebe13> yofel: and the 195 drivers work.. thanks
<yofel> natewiebe13: the drivers were uploaded for lucid while lucid still had xorg 7.4
<natewiebe13> okay.. that makes sense
<yofel> xorg 7.5 got into lucid 1-2 weeks ago
<DanaG> hmm, I also have weird volume control behavior with pulseaudio and ALC658D.
<natewiebe13> anyone else getting "no indicators" for where the user switcher was?
<yofel> natewiebe13: yep IdleOne and funkyHat
<natewiebe13> bug?
<IdleOne> yofel: The official keeper of " OMG! what happened to my user switch " bug :)
<yofel> ^^
<IdleOne> natewiebe13: seems like a little bug yup
<natewiebe13> haha.. nice, seems to happen at least once every release :P
<natewiebe13> is there a bug report for it yet?
<DanaG> https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=22239
<ubottu> Freedesktop bug 22239 in plymouth general "improve console= handling" [Normal,New]
<DanaG> for me, plymouth refuses to run.'
<natewiebe13> yofel: is there a bug report for indicator applet?
<yofel> no idea
<natewiebe13> (unless its something else)
<DanaG>  -- also big.http://users.csc.calpoly.edu/~dgoyette/bootcharts/EliteBook-lucid-20091214-4.png
<mrmcq2u> DanaG - ati kms was switched off in an update recently in case that might be the issue
<DanaG> nope, different issue.
<DanaG> I actually have pinned the Karmic X server, and am using fglrx.
<DanaG> I need the power savings features.
<DanaG> So, I have it use uvesafb.
<DanaG> It just actively refuses to show splash if it sees "console=anything"
<mrmcq2u> it worked for a charm for me on fedora for the past two releases with ati
<mrmcq2u> but fedora's not debian based :)
<mrmcq2u> oh how I loath yum
<DanaG> yum?  more like yuck.
<natewiebe13> funkyHat, IdleOne: bug #496731
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 496731 in indicator-applet "indicator-applet shows "no indicators" in lucid" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/496731
<DanaG> read the bug link I posted.
<BUGabundo> guys sorry for the spam but been laughing so hard with this site, I had to share http://akinator.com/
<yofel> btw, looking through my unread feeds I found this nice explenation about 'Partial upgrades'
<yofel> http://u.nu/78584
<DanaG> http://users.csc.calpoly.edu/~dgoyette/bootcharts/EliteBook-lucid-20091214-5.png
<DanaG> that's a bit better.
<DanaG> Still won't auto-login.
<DanaG> bug 416067
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 416067 in update-manager "battery warning causes update-manager to loose unfocus" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/416067
<rr73> is there a known issue about alpha-1 flickering on laptops?
<DanaG> bug 490512
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 490512 in nautilus "Disable Trash/Delete bindings when appropriate" [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/490512
<rr73> so bad that I can't even run live cd or let alone install
<natewiebe13> hmm.. after an update i no longer get x at all
<natewiebe13> thought it may have to do with installing the nvidia glx driver, i uninstall it and still no x
<rr73> natewiebe13~ my screen flickers like mad on my laptop, it is like it keeps switching virtual terms or something
<natewiebe13> when mine starts up you see terms instead of plymouth, then the background changes from black to green and then it brings up the login from terminal but no x
<rr73> this is why it is alpha lol
<natewiebe13> rr73 yup.. im also getting usplash terminated with status 2, but it has been removed 2 updates ago
<natewiebe13> haha
<rr73> so a daily/current *should* solve my issue? even though it is xubuntu right?
<natewiebe13> rr73: got x running.. had to login and "sudo start gdm"
<natewiebe13> rr73: shouldnt that be done by default?
<natewiebe13> :P
<rr73> what by defualy
<natewiebe13> start gdm
<rr73> idk
<rr73> what is the difference between /daily/ and /daily-live/ during the develepment process?
<MatBoy> ah I just heard knowledge is here again :) nice people that actually know what they are doing :)
<MatBoy> when you encrypt your /home partition during the install there is displayed the encryption key after the first login... this is done by a command which I can't find anymore
<BUGabundo> rr73: daily is the alternate, Live is the Desktop
<bjsnider> beat me to it
<bjsnider> you bugabundo you
<rr73> BUGabundo~ just realized that lol
<rr73> and the alternate is updated more frequently?
<BUGabundo> bjsnider: and I'm not even paying attention
<BUGabundo> I was playing http://akinator.com/
<BUGabundo> can't stop... I'm hooked on the site
<BUGabundo> rr73: same
<BUGabundo> daily
<BUGabundo> DVDs are every 3-5 days
<rr73> BUGabundo~ for xubuntu the alternate is from 14 and desktop is from 09, both of December
<BUGabundo> unless its failing to build due to the X bug
<rr73> :-D lol ok thankyou
<rr73> so in an ideal world they are the same, but in some instances of bugs they are not, right BUGabundo ?
<rr73> thank you so much for the assistance BUGabundo
<BUGabundo> yes
<BUGabundo> something like that
<bjsnider> now people are sending me bug reports about how badly mplayer works when they've removed pulseaudio from their systems
<bjsnider> what do i tell them, BUGabundo?
<BUGabundo> bjsnider: ahahaha
<BUGabundo> I laugh in their FACES ahahaahaha
<BUGabundo> or
<BUGabundo> ask them to re install PA
<bjsnider> he says he removed it because he was not able to get surround sound to work with it (pulse that is)
<bjsnider> ugh, how distasteful
<MatBoy> mhh I wonder why I can't find this command to disply my encryption key
<BUGabundo> lame
<BUGabundo> he should have installed PAMAN
<BUGabundo> and selected the 5 channerls
<BUGabundo> if only stereo head phones worked :(
<BUGabundo> but I've been trying and can't collect enough debug data :(
<bjsnider> i thought surround sound was one of the profiles available
<BUGabundo> nor I find a good bug on LP for it
<MatBoy> mhh, no-one knows the command ?
<BUGabundo> MatBoy: ?
<BUGabundo> ohh GPG
<BUGabundo> humm
<bjsnider> i should send him to dtchen
<BUGabundo> keyserver something
<BUGabundo> bjsnider: #ubuntu-audio-help
<MatBoy> BUGabundo: when you encrypt your home partition the first time you get your key after enetering your sudo passwd
<bjsnider> there you go. thakn you
<BUGabundo> with all ubuntu-desktop packages installed
<BUGabundo> and a good bug report from apport
<BUGabundo> MatBoy: you do? I never do it like that
<BUGabundo> I use encfs
<MatBoy> BUGabundo: it worked kinda well
<MatBoy> but I need to know if I need to recover :)
<MatBoy> I also need to know how you can recover a ext4 partition when you converted it or whatever... not much info about it yet :)
<MatBoy> I always want to now in front :)
<BUGabundo> MatBoy: no recoveral method should be available
<BUGabundo> but talk to the guy that made it
<BUGabundo> you can find him in #ubuntu-devel
<MatBoy> not yet for ext4 ?
<MatBoy> so better use ext3 so far ?
<BUGabundo> humm his nick is......
<BUGabundo> darn... can't remember
<MatBoy> hehe
<MatBoy> NP
<MatBoy> BUGabundo: I just reocered a converted ext4 parition encrypted also using testdisk :) only converted, nothing more :D
<BUGabundo> ohh strange dude :)
<MatBoy> BUGabundo: Iá¸¿ kinda freak... but woman seem to like me tho :P
 * BUGabundo steps back
<MatBoy> hehe
<BUGabundo> hye coool.... kmail fixed :)
<MatBoy> damn I need to reinstall my eeepc with flashdisk to upgrade to 9.10 :S
<BUGabundo>   p, li { white-space: pre-wrap; }  KMail encountered a fatal error and will terminate now. The error was: Message could not be added to the folder, possibly disk space is low
<BUGabundo> and i have >100GiB free
<BUGabundo> stupid app
<BUGabundo> I'm movign to TB3
<BUGabundo> damn it
<MatBoy> mhh what is the most nice way to encrypt your partition now ?
<nvme> 11 second boot ? what ? http://tr.im/HDhy
#ubuntu+1 2009-12-15
<rr73> ok so i did something stupid and toasted grub
<rr73> it says gettext not found
<rr73> and that is why you don't dist-upgrade to testing right? :( it toasts your system?
<rr73> bbl
<dtchen> dist-upgrading to Debian testing? or Ubuntu 10.04?
<dtchen> the latter is mostly feasible last I checked
<BUGabundo> dtchen: what how I do it
<BUGabundo> cause I did mine on day one :)
<BUGabundo> no UM db yet
<BUGabundo> $ gdb --args kmail --nofork
<BUGabundo> here we go
<BUGabundo> crash now haah
<yofel> nice... akonadi is at fault that kmail  freezes here. When opening a mail I get...
<yofel> kmail(22763)/libakonadi Akonadi::SessionPrivate::socketError: Socket error occurred: "QLocalSocket::connectToServer: Invalid name"
<yofel> once a second in gdb
<BUGabundo> yofel: nothing like that here
<BUGabundo> Program received signal SIGSEGV, Segmentation fault.
<BUGabundo> 0x00007ffff4a5cbb0 in clearerr () from /lib/libc.so.6
<BUGabundo> (gdb)
<BUGabundo> eheh
<BUGabundo> libc6 broken
<BUGabundo> I WISH YOU ALL MERRY XTMAS
<BUGabundo> grr I mean a good day tomorrow
<BUGabundo> you will need it :)
<yofel> full log: http://yofel.pastebin.com/f30f9a1c7
<yofel> akonadi utterly broken
<BUGabundo> here's the trace
<BUGabundo> http://paste.ubuntu.com/341553/
<BUGabundo> incase anyone wants it
<BUGabundo> let me install libc6 dgb ;(
<BUGabundo> huge package
<BUGabundo> yofel: mine I nicer :DDD
<yofel> :P
<BUGabundo> /lib/libc.so.6
<BUGabundo> why do we have to break libc6 twice on each cycle?
<BUGabundo> there goes number one
<BUGabundo> expect 2nd at A5
<yofel> what exactly are you trying to do when it crahes?
<BUGabundo>  sudo aptitude install libc6-dbg
<BUGabundo> yofel: pulling email :D
<BUGabundo> just that
<yofel> maybe it works here cause I use IMAP?
<BUGabundo> it complains of a missing maildir folder (I've created it manually now)
<BUGabundo> and chrash
<BUGabundo> its dIMAP btw
<yofel> hm
<BUGabundo> gotta love MUTT
<BUGabundo> $ gdb --args kmail --nofork
<BUGabundo> here we go again
<yofel> BUGabundo: side note: there will be no A5 :P
<BUGabundo> rebuilding dIMAP folder to be sure everything is in its place
<BUGabundo> WHAT?
<BUGabundo> how can that be?
<BUGabundo> longer cycles ?
<BUGabundo> between alphas?
<BUGabundo> I really should try to catch up on emails :(((((
<yofel> check the release schedule, we'll have 2 betas
<BUGabundo> so far so good.. pulling email again
<BUGabundo>   p, li { white-space: pre-wrap; }  /home/bugabundo/.kde/share/apps/kmail/dimap/.XXXXXXXX.directory/.[Gmail].directory/.Sent Mail.directory.
<nvme> http://tr.im/HDhy :)
<BUGabundo> holding so far
<nvme> is ureadahead the only thing has changed ?
<rr73> BUGabundo~ you dist-upgrade to get lucid?
<nvme> that improved boottimes that much ?
<BUGabundo> rr73: yes
<BUGabundo> nvme: should
<BUGabundo> halt time
<rr73> BUGabundo~ my grub got busted
<rr73> grub_gettext symbol not found
<BUGabundo> lolol
<nvme> my boot went from 30s in karmic to 11s, im curious to see what changed
<BUGabundo> hummm then again this may be a corrupt foldr
<BUGabundo> its one that got half lost when my disk crashed
<BUGabundo> I will redo the account
<BUGabundo> and there we go
<BUGabundo> crash
<yofel> purged akonadi config, let's try again...
<rr73> BUGabundo~ how did you upgrade, change sources then update and dist-upgrade?
<BUGabundo> rr73: yes
<BUGabundo> it was day ONE of lucid
<yofel> I did the same 2 weeks later
<rr73> i did that and grub fails and sticks me at a grub rescue-> prompt
<BUGabundo> done for tonight
<BUGabundo> 1am
<BUGabundo> bed time
<BUGabundo> http://paste.ubuntu.com/341558/
<BUGabundo> yofel: by then wasn't UM already working ?
<yofel> BUGabundo: UM wasn't working till A1
<yofel> and I wanted to update pre-UDS
<BUGabundo> ah
<BUGabundo> night guys
<yofel> 'night
<rr73> ty BUGabundo
<rr73> night
<rr73> yofel~ any suggestions or is my install toast?
<yofel> not really, boot live disk and run grub-install?
<yofel> had to do that to a while ago, my machine got to 'GRUB loading' and then just rebooted
<rr73> any live cd or does it have to be lucid?
<yofel> (I suspect a W7 update to be responsible for that)
<yofel> rr73: hm...... good question, I used a lucid one, karmic *should* be ok too I think
<yofel> if you use grub2 you'll need at least karmic anyway
<i_is_broke> hmmm must of had a netsplit?
<oldude67> well that was a little weird...did update lost desktop, went to terminal did update again and its back..
<i_is_broke> cool, netsplit night..autoscrolling..lmao
<maxb> It really is very useful that update manager stops and tells you it has disabled 3rd party sources
<maxb> It gives you an excellent opportunity to go and reenable them before it proceeds :-)
<i_is_broke> <<< going to make popcorn and watch the show..lol
<i_is_broke> scroll in ,,,,scroll out.
<i_is_broke> :D
<DanaG> weird... nano doesn't work under minicom.
<rr73> yofel_~ hey you said you needed to use grub-install a few weeks ago yes?
<DanaG> hmm, all that's left running when the system sort-of-but-not-really shuts down, are: rc, portmap, and plymouth.
<DanaG> hmm, all that's left running when the system sort-of-but-not-really shuts down, are: rc, portmap, and plymouth.
<webbb82> ok i want to install lucid to my external hd  would i see any lack of performance  rather than running it on my normal hd
<rr73> i fixed my boot with grub-install but now it dumps me to term when i boot up
<i_is_broke> are we about done with all the netsplits?
<i_is_broke> guess not.
<i_is_broke> ugh
<i_is_broke> i need to reboot the test box and see if i still have x
 * Crashbit pal curro!
<gsedej> hi!
<gsedej> Is some one haveing problems with bootscreen (plymounth or what?) using VIRTUALBOX?
<om26er> !test
<ubottu> yes, I'm alive.
<om26er> how can i disable debug mode in OSD
<om26er> how to disable "low, report incorrect urgency?
<SalvoMaltese> hi all
<SalvoMaltese> can I ask about kubuntu lucid?
<SalvoMaltese> or it's a separate channel?
<maco> same channel
<SalvoMaltese> ok, where I can get knetworkmanager?
<SalvoMaltese> lucid comes without wireless support
<maco> i thik it changed names back to plasmoid-network-manager
<SalvoMaltese> and I only have wireless
<maco> yeah the renaming screwed it up on the alpha1 cd. welcome to alpha :) alpha2 should have it right
<SalvoMaltese> so I can install the package from the cd using apt-get?
<BUGabundo_work> !test
<ubottu> yes, I'm alive.
<mac> !test
<ubottu> yes, I'm alive.
<maxb> Has anyone else found that gpointing-device-settings doesn't persist its settings?
<BluesKaj> Hi all
 * BluesKaj looks for a skype version without pulseaudio
<BUGabundo_work> hye BluesKaj
<joaopinto> hi BUGabundo_work
<BluesKaj> hey BUGabundo_work , what's up ?
<BUGabundo_work> work
<BUGabundo_work> slowwww work
<BUGabundo_work> coping java old debs from LP to a debian machine cause i cant find java5-1.5.0-19 any where else
<BUGabundo_work> hope no one kills me for that
<BluesKaj> konqueror and dolphin keeping dying "unexpectedly " after trying to add skype files to /usr/bin/skype as the readme instructs
<BluesKaj> not after but during
<zer0x> Can anyone tell me if its possible to secure wipe freespace on an encrypted volume? Can I still use tools from the 'secure-delete' package as an example?
<BUGabundo_work> zer0x: yeah
<BUGabundo_work> thats one of them, sure
<zer0x> BUGabundo_work: so having an encrypted filesystem wont interfere with the operation of these tools? I wish the alt-installer offered a wipe erase option before setting up LVM!
<zer0x> *encrypted
<BUGabundo_work> zer0x: as long as u run then INSIDE the encrypted volume
<BUGabundo_work> i see no reason not to
<BUGabundo_work> but as always
<BUGabundo_work> keep backups
<zer0x> BUGabundo_work: np, cheers for the help :)
<mostapha> I've downloaded the 10.04 image and I'm trying to install it but the up and down keys aren't working on the the F-keys and the enter key. Any ideas?
<mostapha> I can't do anything except choose to try it and when i do and when it boots it's seems so slow even that I'm reading from an iso image on the hard which should be fast. And also nothing other than the background load.
<BUGabundo_work> mostapha: theres a bug with this live images
<BUGabundo_work> with squashfs
<mostapha> BUGabundo_work: is there any other way to check it out?
<mostapha> ??
<BluesKaj> copying files between dirs is buggy in lucid ...moving files isn't a problem
<BluesKaj> well, time for my daily ... BBL
<BUGabundo_work> YAY
<BUGabundo_work> LP now shows HOW many users  are affected
<BUGabundo_work> WOOT WOOT
<BUGabundo_work> http://blog.launchpad.net/coming-features/showing-the-number-of-affected-users-2
<mrmcq2u> I can see that becoming an issue
<rr73> hey BUGabundo_work !!
 * rr73 waves
<BUGabundo_work> mrmcq2u: why?
<yofel> re folks
<mrmcq2u> because people who are affected by bugs which are not as common might be ignored
<yofel> grr... I hate it when it's <0Â°C outside...
<rr73> yofel~ it worked
<yofel> mrmcq2u: the 'people affected' has been there for ages, the representation was just bad
<BUGabundo_work> mrmcq2u: devs (and triagers) already sort bugs based on ammount of affected users
<i_is_broke> im really starting to like knowing a little about ssh..:D
<i_is_broke> i dont have to keep moving from computer to computer to do updates..:D
<BluesKaj> hmm, glad sssh is working for somebody, I can't seem to connect to the other linux boxes on my network after upgrading to lucid . Tried deleting the old rsa encryptions but still nothing
<i_is_broke> these netsplits are really starting to go get annoying.ugh.
<i_is_broke> wow, irc is really having trouble today.
<i_is_broke> kiddies must be playing rough today..all these netsplits.
<i_is_broke> last night they said it was cause they were doing maint. on it but i thought there was more too it.
<sgh> Hi
<sgh> Which package kontain the kde sftp kio-slave?
<yofel> sgh: you mean bug 496208'
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 496208 in kdebase-workspace "sftp:// protocol no longer works in KDE 4.4 on lucid" [Undecided,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/496208
<yofel> *?
<douglasawh-work> bugabundo: ha. I just saw your ping from days ago.
<BUGabundo> oh you did?
<BUGabundo> that's a really big log douglasawh-work
<BUGabundo> or is it just highlight ?
<douglasawh-work> using quassel that highlights, but yeah, I'm sure the log file is enormous
<douglasawh-work> so, ubuntu+1 peeps, I've got an encryption LVM partition.  Pretty easy to set up, but it doesn't tell me what encryption strength it is using. How do I find that out?
<funkyHat> I still have terrible GL performance - radeon x1650, open source drivers. Anyone know if it's worth trying the edgers PPA to see if it's improved?
<funkyHat> Or any other suggestions :)
<arand_> upgrading gdm and in the process removing usplash, that all in order?
<BUGabundo> arand_: hope so, for your sake
<BUGabundo> if it goes well, let me know
<BUGabundo> so I can upgrade too
<BUGabundo> :D
<BUGabundo> ginnepig
<arand_> That sounds highly unassuring...
<patcito> lol
<joaopinto> anyone using 32bits could check if eclipse runs there ?
<BUGabundo> nope
<arand_> Well, let's just take a snapshot here then....
<BUGabundo> 64 bits all the way
<BUGabundo> dinner
<BUGabundo> arand_: ping me back latter
<BUGabundo> I wanna know how that goes
<arand_> joaopinto: I've got a 32bit vm that would do?
<CosmiChaos> hey i actually "lost" my onboard-sound-device, cant find any soundcontroler in hardware-tab of volume-control, alsamixer says:Fehler beim Ãffen des Mixer-GerÃ¤tes: No such file or directory
<joaopinto> arand_, it would, just to make sure is nothing specific to my system
<joaopinto> eclipse is running fine on my desktop 64 bits, but not here on my laptop
<CosmiChaos> can somebody help me to get my sound back?
<arand_> hmm, that's a hefty install, eclipse...
<arand_> ~4min
<joaopinto> it's big :P
<CosmiChaos> please help me
<arand_> joaopinto: fails, interesting log message...:
<joaopinto> yup, like if there are some 64bits libraries
<joaopinto> on the 32bits package
<joaopinto> arand_, do you happen to have a 32bits karmic vm to test it also ?
<arand_> ##java.lang.UnsatisfiedLinkError: Cannot load 64-bit SWT libraries on 32-bit JVM
<arand_> joaopinto: sure, will do.
<arand_> full error log (lucid):http://pastebin.com/f788efb7b
<joaopinto> ok, filing a bug report
<arand_> that's two executions of the program in thast log btw.
<arand_> hence duplication.
<joaopinto> hum, strange, I have installed eclipse from software center, while running the bug reporting tool it tells me eclipse is not installed
<joaopinto> and the eclipse package is really not installed
<joaopinto> eclipse-platform was installed
<joaopinto> software-centers show "Eclipse" as installed
<arand_> I used aptitude, and hence have the eclipse package...
<joaopinto> ok, I am installing eclipse with apt now, just to be sure
<arand_> Hmm, the package itself doesn't actually contain anything, apart from some TODO, changelog & copyright, so it shouldn't really affect execution I guess..
<arand_> joaopinto: Karmic version seems to be working fine
<joaopinto> ok, thanks
<BUGabundo> where the heck did the FUSA go???
<BUGabundo> more breakge? pfffff
<BUGabundo> arand_: how did the GDM upgrade go?
<BUGabundo> wb ikonia
<arand_> booting now
 * BUGabundo sits back and watch the destruction
<arand_> fb messsages on boot, no usplash logo (kind of expected...), no plymouth afaicsee, boots fine though, no other issues.
<arand_> How boring...
<yofel> arand_: do you have 'plymouth' installed?
<yofel> just curious...
<arand_> yes, package is installed.
<arand_> uh, hang on, I lied, no it isn't... so everything is definitely as expected then, simply usplash is no more..
<yofel> *sigh* these netsplits are getting annoying...
<BUGabundo> yofel: +1
<BUGabundo> at least *we* manage to be kept togheter
<BUGabundo> aha
<yofel> hehe
<BUGabundo> arand_: yofel: so no plymouth? isn't that meant to be back in _again_?
<yofel> no idea, I don't use any splash
<arand_> I guess plymouth hasn't been pulled in as a dependendency yet, right?
<yofel> just noticed that while usplash gets removed it doesn't seem that plymouth gets installed
<yofel> arand_: that's what I think too
<BUGabundo> those too *should* conflict with each other
<arand_> they do
<BUGabundo> yofel: we can't force depency
<BUGabundo> cause it would not allow users to install splash if they want
<BUGabundo> can only be a recommends
<yofel> ah
<arand_> yea, hmm, add some handwaving to my "depends" comment. . . Hmm, so is plymouth auto-configured on install or does it need fiddling?, I'm seeing nothing of it now I installed it.
<joaopinto> is plymouth usable already ?
<BUGabundo> arand_: my guess ubuntu seed will pull it in
<BUGabundo> arand_: do you have ubuntu-desktop ?
<arand_> BUGabundo: yup
<arand_> I guess plymouth doesn't like the vm vid driver atm though...
<BUGabundo> maybe
<BUGabundo> let me upgrade mine
<BUGabundo> and I'll let you know tomorrow how it goes
<arand_> there seems to be some success on ati/intel: http://ohioloco.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=8479380
<joaopinto> plymouth needs a KMS capable driver
<sebsebseb> hi
<yofel> anyone got an idea for my kmail freeze (akonadi broken) http://yofel.pastebin.com/f30f9a1c7
<JontheEchidna> unfortunately I do not :(
<nvme> where can i get the minimal cd for lynx ? is there one yet ?
<BUGabundo> nvme: there's  minimal install iso
<BUGabundo> 12MBs
<BUGabundo> yofel: its holding here
<nvme> yeah thats what i want
<BUGabundo> the only dIMAP account I had with probs, I removed and redid, all fine
<BUGabundo> !minimal
<ubottu> The Minimal CD image is very small in size, and it downloads most packages from the Internet during installation, allowing you to select only those you want (the installer is like the one on the !Alternate CD). See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/MinimalCD
<BUGabundo> !daily
<ubottu> Daily builds of the CD images of the current development version of Ubuntu are available at http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily/current/ and http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/current/
<BUGabundo> nvme: its around there somewhere
<BUGabundo> if you don't find it, let me know
<nvme> yeh i checked those two already no lynx
<DanaG> hmm, I'm back on that computer with the funky volume control.
<yofel> meh, I deleted anything belonging to akonadi in ~ and it still doesn't work
<BUGabundo> ahhh you mean you want one with lynx already??
<BUGabundo> no no nvme
<BUGabundo> I bet you will need to install it
<BUGabundo> the you need base seed
<BUGabundo> it brings a x-www
<nvme> ah well, i was about to install XBMC with a minimal ubuntu, thought i might as well seek lynx verison
<DanaG> weird... if I mute any one of master, pcm, surround, center, or lfe... it mutes everything.
<DanaG> Yet, changing "Master" volume... changes only the front!
<rr73> my screen does not stop flickering and before it would boot into low graphics mode but then gdm upgraded and now i can't see anything
<dtchen> well, the former is intentional
<dtchen> PA will chain the mute status "down"
<dtchen> the latter looks like a linux bug, reasonably
<dtchen> then again, I'm kinda missing quite some information...
<DanaG> hmm, actually, I'm muting individual channels in alsamixer.
<DanaG> lemme' do an alsa-info.
<DanaG> oh, and I did fix my alsa-lib stuff... had an old .asoundrc; just removed it to fix it.
<DanaG> http://www.alsa-project.org/db/?f=4c9df1117d9ad43f67c14bf75ca33cb4da52b09b
#ubuntu+1 2009-12-16
<DanaG> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/201711
<DanaG> grr.
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 201711 in linux "Apple fn key behavior isn't consistent with what's expected" [Medium,Confirmed]
<DanaG> Having to press alt-fn-f2 is annoying.
<DanaG> grr.
<DanaG> and alt-fn-f4 to quit. and ctrl-alt-fn-f1 to switch to tty1.
<DanaG> Or worse, ctrl-alt-fn-f7.
<rr73> DanaG~ at least be thankful you can get X/GDM working
<DanaG> i'm using kdm... and oddly enough, kdm doesn't auto-login even though I have set it to do so.
<jml> "isn't consistent with what's expected" might as well say "is broken"
<rr73> DanaG~ gdm does not start on boot then a 'start gdm' will make my screen just flickerrr
<rr73> i dont know where to start looking to troubleshoot my issue. or let alone describe my issue lol
<DanaG> hmm, I seem to recall having fixed that by purging and reinstalling gdm (from under console); had to use dpkg --force-depends.
<DanaG> That's a rather inelegant hack, though.
<DanaG> Better to report a bug, or find an existing report for that bug.
<rr73> i don't know how to explain it much more lol and i can't attach files cause the system "locks up"
<rr73> DanaG~ what's with the force-depends? I get no dependancy issues with a purge/install
<rr73> DanaG~ exactly what did you do to fix it? and you can see some of tty1 but then flickers to black then back and forth?
<DanaG> hmm, check for old xorg log?
<DanaG> yargh, pulseaudio was being all crackly, on both the usb and the ac97 cards.
<DanaG> Hmm, which of those two SHOULD be less crackly?
<genii> I would hope some internal card would be less crackly
<dtchen> internal or otherwise has no bearing
<dtchen> remember there are several factors in this "crackly" equation:
<bjsnider> what?
<dtchen> * driver-side: DMA setup, PCI latency
<bjsnider> having to do a translation over usb wouldn't be more of a problem than a pci card?
<dtchen> * library-side: DMA setup
<dtchen> * application-side: hw/sw params
<DanaG> My system also seems to be under load from something... not sure what.
<dtchen> bjsnider: it isn't nearly as significant a factor as other things
<DanaG> oh, right now it's ntfs-3g load... but that wasn't the issue then, I don't think.
<DanaG> hmm, PCI SATA card could also be a factor.
<DanaG> hmm, anyway, I posted the alsa-info for the ac97 card earlier.
<bcurtiswx> there any way to get around one of the packages trying to remove usplash?
<DanaG> icon selection fail: the icon for ethernet-cable-unplugged, in new-wave theme, is "no wifi signal" icon.
<DanaG> ... on a computer with no wifi card.
<DanaG> weird... PulseAudio just lost my ac97 sound card entirely.
<DanaG> It switched to null!
<bjsnider> you've mentioned high-cpu load from ntfs-3g before
<DanaG> yeah, and now it's on a single-core.  bleh.
<bjsnider> that's the userspace ntfs driver?
<DanaG> www.csc.calpoly.edu/~dgoyette/pulse-loses-ac97.log
<dtchen> DanaG: generally, if you disable autospawn and run it manually (with verbose logging), you'll get much more useful output.
<DanaG> killall pulseaudio && pulseaudio -vvvv |& tee pulse-loses-a97.log &
<DanaG> yay for |& pipe in bash.
<dtchen> HTTP 404
<DanaG> oops, typo'd on "scp" command.
<DanaG> try again.
<DanaG> weird.
<dtchen> 404 again
<DanaG> oh, I typo'd the file name itself.
<DanaG> =Ã¾
<DanaG> it was 'a97' (lost the 'c')
<DanaG> now it's ac97.
<dtchen> I: (alsa-lib)pcm_plugin.c: short commit: 173
<dtchen> D: alsa-sink.c: snd_pcm_mmap_commit: Broken pipe
<dtchen> D: alsa-sink.c: snd_pcm_mmap_commit: Buffer underrun!
<dtchen> I: (alsa-lib)pcm_hw.c: SNDRV_PCM_IOCTL_PREPARE failed
<dtchen> I: (alsa-lib)pcm.c: cannot recovery from underrun, prepare failed: Device or resource busy
<dtchen> E: alsa-sink.c: snd_pcm_mmap_commit: Device or resource busy
<DanaG> yup.
<DanaG> "cannot recovery" is also broken grammar, I just noticed. =Ã¾
<dtchen> native German speaker, so I overlook those bits ;)
<DanaG> "recovery" is noun, "recover" is verb.
<DanaG> "cannot <verb>"
<DanaG> =t
<DanaG> =Ã¾
<dtchen> I'm sure Lennart would happily accept patches
<DanaG> curse this apple keyboard I've borrowed...
<DanaG> normal bottom row is ctrl, super, alt, space, altgr, (maybe super), contextmenu, ctrl.
<DanaG> Apple is ctrl, alt, super, space, super, alt, ctrl.
<dtchen> and this is updated, correct?
<DanaG> 1:0.9.21-0ubuntu2
<dtchen>   alsa-lib | 1.0.21a-1ubuntu2 |         lucid | source
<DanaG> hmm, what command gives that output format?
<dtchen> dtchen@zinc:~$ rmadison alsa-lib
<DanaG>   alsa-lib | 1.0.21a-1ubuntu2 | http://mirrors.kernel.org lucid/main Sources
<DanaG> apt-cache madison.
<dtchen> right, but you'd want apt-cache policy libasound2|grep Installed:
<DanaG> 1.0.21a-1ubuntu2
<dtchen> ok, so you have the hw ptr ioctl patch
<dtchen> that's good
<DanaG> oh, no rtkit installed... should I install it?
<dtchen> yes
<dtchen> not the source of this issue, but yes, you should
<natewiebe13> with the new breadcrumbs in software center, could that potentially be used in nautilus for the location?
<DanaG> oh, and I get this all the time: Gtk-Message: Failed to load module "atk-bridge": libatk-bridge.so: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
<dtchen> do you have at-spi installed?
<DanaG> yes.
<dtchen> probably GTK+ skew
<dtchen> hmm, I really need driver debugging for that
<DanaG> I don't use at-spi, anyway, so that bit is cosmetic. = t
<dtchen> I'm sure it's related to alsa-plugins not syncing the "hw ptr" correctly
<DanaG> curse you apple keyboard!
<DanaG> hmm, if rtkit can make the usb one not crackle too badly, that's enough.
<DanaG> Is there a way to just auto-build an alsa package with debug?  Or does that need a whole kernel build?
<DanaG> (or a linux-image-debug)
<DanaG> http://users.csc.calpoly.edu/~dgoyette/lshw.html
<dtchen> you can just wait for Brad's crack-of-the-day alsa-driver snapshot builds
<dtchen> he'll be announcing them shortly
<DanaG> Cool.'
<dtchen> anyhow, Z time -> work
<DanaG> hmm, should rtkit at least help the usb one?
<DanaG> I can just use that.
<DanaG> Or maybe I should just try it and find out. =Ã¾
<DanaG> anyway, good night.
<DanaG> grr, stupid o3d plugin... segfault.
<DanaG> hmm, how do I list all "untrusted" packages available?
<DanaG> aptitude search ~U showed u for upgradeable, not U for untrusted.
<DanaG> wierd... sata_via is dog-slow.
<DanaG>   24.4% (159.2)   [sata_via] <interrupt>
<DanaG> < Detailed C-state information is not P-states (frequencies)
<DanaG> say what?
<DanaG> that's what powertop says.
<patcito> hey
<patcito> plasma-desktop takes up +60% CPU here
<patcito> I have an intel 945GM/PM/GMS, 943/940GML and 945G
<patcito> any idea what's wrong?
<patcito> JontheEchidna: any idea? ^^ :)
<JontheEchidna> :)
<JontheEchidna> Not off the top of my head... have any widgets in particular that you could try removing?
<JontheEchidna> Good luck, anyways. I'm off to bed (1:30 AM here)
<iflema> :P
<wzssyqa> rhythmbox have no icon on try
<wzssyqa> tray
<BUGabundo_work> hey
<BluesKaj> howdy folks
<BluesKaj> ssh network wizard is broken in lucid , can ssh in the terminal but not in dolphin or konq
<yofel> you mean sftp?
<BluesKaj> yeah , yofel , seems  so
<yofel> yeah, that is broken for the time being, lemme look up the bug
<yofel> BluesKaj: bug 496208
<yofel> thanks for nothing ubottu...
<BUGabundo_work> ahahaahahaah
<yofel> -.-
<BUGabundo_work> its always funny to hang around here
<BluesKaj> lucid froze then crashed
<BUGabundo_work> eheh
<BUGabundo_work> bad lucid, bad
<BluesKaj> I think it was chromium browser ...it's reall slow and sticky ...FF is bad enuff too
 * BUGabundo_work slasps BluesKaj 
<BUGabundo_work> WHAT?
<BUGabundo_work> its the fastest browser I ever used
<BUGabundo_work> u cant be well
<v6lur> any ideas why 'make' won't do anything on lucid? (x64; all updates as of now)
<v6lur> no error or anything, just exits in silence
<v6lur> exit code is 0, too
<yofel> v6lur: check the Makefile?
<v6lur> ./configure says all went fine, no start make
<v6lur> now*
<yofel> bug in Makefile.in configure or autotools then
<yofel> make works fine for me
<v6lur> hmm, the makefile looks rather empty, now that i look at it
<v6lur> some 10 lines + comments...
<v6lur> ok...
<v6lur> another thing: qmake doesn't seem to like Qt 4.6
<v6lur> gives "Project ERROR: unsupported Qt minor version 6 found but 3, 4 or 5 required" and exits
<yofel> seems like the app doesn't compile with qt 4.6
<yofel> maybe regenerate the project file?
<v6lur> i'll try...
<v6lur> thanks, yofel
<iceroot_> is the alpha a feature-freeze?
<BUGabundo_work> eheh
<BUGabundo_work> no such thing
<iceroot_> ah ok
<iceroot_> but running fine :)
<iceroot_> very nice :) click on system-help  its saying i am using karmic koala :)
<Pici> yay
<BUGabundo_work> Pici: ?
<Pici> BUGabundo_work: hm?
<BUGabundo_work> yay for ?
<Pici> BUGabundo_work: That it said karmic. Nothing worth noting.
<BUGabundo_work> ah right
<towolf> hello, iâm wondering how input devices are configured in the post-hal world. i tried udev rules, but they donât do anything. anyone know how itâs done?
<yofel> let's try again: anyone an idea how to fix a broken akonadi? It hangs up KMail here: http://yofel.pastebin.com/f30f9a1c7
<BluesKaj> is kamail fixed ?  it was in rough shape in 9.04 so I dumped it
<BluesKaj> err kmail
<yofel> well, it works fine for me except that it freezes when I want to open a mail to read it
<yofel> it waits for a not-started akonadi server
<yofel> (see my paste)
<BUGabundo_work> BluesKaj: it was very stable in 9.10
<BUGabundo_work> on 9.04 prob was it got caught in mid devel cycle
<BluesKaj> I see , was considering using it again but I've moved most of my eamil to igoogle/gmail , but I don't carry on any business or sensitive data , so I'm ok with my present setups
<BluesKaj> quassel is certainly not my cuppa tea. lose the nicklist, toolbar , serverbar and there's no obvious option to get it back...gotta be a mindreader I guess
<nvme> what can i do other than clean out sysv-rc-conf to improve boot speeds ?
<sebsebseb> hi
<CosmiChaos> why does my onboard audio device does no more work from boot up in lucid? i always need to run sudo modprobe snd_hd_intel, after that it is properly shown in volume-control
<CosmiChaos> snd_hda_intel
<CosmiChaos> well initramfs-tools and linux-firmware recently got an update
<CosmiChaos> i remember my audio broke few days ago when that packages were updated last time
<CosmiChaos> hope its gone now, will reboot
<CosmiChaos> well it is still broken, i just add snd_hda_intel to /etc/modules that would work
<bjsnider> this channel is an almost constant stream of messages about audio breakages
<Ian_Corne> HA
<Ian_Corne> a stream
<Ian_Corne> :p
<Ian_Corne> nooo
 * yofel wonders if dtchen will see a day without audio complaints ^^
<yofel> and first we have netsplit hell and now ubottu seems broken...
<Ian_Corne> the netsplits are because some assholes are ddossing the freenode servers :(
<bjsnider> chanserv msg yesterday mentioned ddos attacks
<CosmiChaos> hmmm my audio is not broke at all, its just the module isnt loaded automatically
<mr_engineer> how is this release going?
<mr_engineer> is it VERY buggy?
<CosmiChaos> mr_engineer, what release? define buggy
<mr_engineer> 10.04
<mr_engineer> hm... like with bugs for a person that uses heavily graphic applications like games
<yofel> mr_engineer: well, we have a new Xorg version and that leads to problems every release
<mr_engineer> oh
<yofel> well, my intel VGA works fine here and my nvidia quadro with 195.22 too
<CosmiChaos> yofel, will lucid carry 1.8 in the end?
<yofel> no idea, depends if it's released early enough, but I would guess on NO
<mr_engineer> well, i will rely on this as a plan b then
<CosmiChaos> so 1.7.3 is *NEW*?
<yofel> CosmiChaos: well, it's not exactly new, but it's stable, and that's whats most important for an LTS release
<BUGabundo> finally some xorgs updates
<CosmiChaos> BUGabundo, that what you said was twelve minutes ago, i still not see any xorg updates
<yofel> WeatherGod: you were faster than I could type XD
<WeatherGod> I'm a ninja!
<BUGabundo> xserver-xorg-input-all
<BUGabundo> The following packages have been kept back:
<BUGabundo>   libgnomekbd4 xserver-xorg xserver-xorg-core{a} xserver-xorg-input-evdev{a} xserver-xorg-input-mouse{a}
<BUGabundo>   xserver-xorg-input-synaptics{a} xserver-xorg-input-vmmouse{a}
<BUGabundo> but this are still stuck
<yofel> I think there were some intel related changes in the kernel that might cause my suspend issues
<yofel> since 2.6.31 works fine
<AlanBell> my intel graphics works just like it does in Karmic
<AlanBell> which is not as good as Jaunty
<AlanBell> but I have a silly monitor with 2048x1152 resolution
<yofel> AlanBell: what card? my 945GME works nice now, while it was crap in Jaunty
<AlanBell> when putting it through my monitor I have to turn compiz off
<AlanBell> metacity works fine
<AlanBell> and compiz works perfectly in Jaunty (spinning cube, the lot)
<AlanBell> but the max texture width of the card is 2048 and between jaunty and Karmic something crept over the limit
<DanaG> argh, stupid Thunderbird.... keeps devouring all my memory, and then getting OOM-killed.
<DanaG> Even in safe mode.
<DanaG> er, wait... weird, it's sometimes -safe-mode, and sometimes --safe-mode.
<joshuajtl> hey folks, can anyone tell me how to configure the scroll area for my synaptics touchpad? (my touchpad currently has two, one in the middle of the pad and one on the left, I only want the one on the left)
<joshuajtl> hey folks, can anyone tell me how to configure the scroll area for my synaptics touchpad? (my touchpad currently has two, one in the middle of the pad and one on the left, I only want the one on the left)
<DanaG> On the left?  I've never heard of a left-edge scroll... just a right-edge scroll.
<joshuajtl> sorry thats what i meant DanaG ... on the right
<joshuajtl> but i also have one in the middle! just from a regular kubuntu install
<DanaG> ah, probably the RightEdge value is wrong.  I'm not sure where touchpad settings go, nowadays.
<joshuajtl> brb
<joshuajtl> can anyone tell me how to find out which touchpad i have? alps or synaptics?
<DanaG> cat /proc/bus/input/devices   perhaps.
<DanaG> argh, for some reason, gksu keeps aborting with badwindow.
<joshuajtl> thanks DanaG
<douglasawh-work> is freenode still having problems or was my disconnection there unrelated?
<DanaG> grr, stupid gksu.
<bjsnider> ask the freenode devs
#ubuntu+1 2009-12-17
<funkyHat> http://dresdencodak.com/2009/09/22/caveman-science-fiction/
<simba_> so some of the last updates made my laptop go compleetely crazy....my touchpad is now inverted if it even works when i start up.....anyone else have something similar?
<simba_> fan is also running much faster than normal, and lappy is getting hot a lot sooner
<rr73> simba_~ my laptop does not like lucid, X seg faults and gdm loops in a state where it is switching from tty1 and "F7" I think, but there is no X server running on that screen
<joshuajtl> why arent there packages for adobe flash 10 64bit yet? its been released.
<RAOF> Oh, really?  When?
<bjsnider> stable?
<joshuajtl> yeah stable
<joshuajtl> http://labs.adobe.com/technologies/flashplayer10/64bit.html
<bjsnider> looks like the .42 alpha build from dec. 8 is the latest
<i_is_broke> joshuajtl, well if you want and know how you could install it , the old fashion way..:D
<joshuajtl> oh youre right
<joshuajtl> yeah i know
<bjsnider> there are scripts out there floating around that can automatically download the plugin and install it for you
<bjsnider> it can't be directly packaged IIRC because adobe won't alow it
<joshuajtl> its not a problem
<joshuajtl> i dont mind installing it
<joshuajtl> right right, then theres non-free
<i_is_broke> its says you can down load the tar.gz file.
<i_is_broke> yup.
<i_is_broke> big pain in the arse.
<joshuajtl> its really not
<i_is_broke> 90% why i stopped using slack..
<i_is_broke> i hated configuring everything.:(
<joshuajtl> you dont even compile it so...
<i_is_broke> oh yeah, i forgot flash was one of the easier ones to do.
<i_is_broke> its been a while since i went threw all of that.
<i_is_broke> id probably have to google how to do it again..lol. or look back into my notes that i wrote down.
<i_is_broke> well hopefully saturday or monday my memory will be in for my old computer, funny cause its faster then the one im on..lol
<i_is_broke> im hoping the bid on the rambus memory on ebay works out for me to..i would like to add more to my test box that im using for lucid.
<DanaG> I keep getting failsafe-X randomly starting... and then totally breaking my consoles.
<DanaG> I'll "exit to console", and get a totally blank black screen.
<DanaG> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/475259
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 475259 in linux "KMS doesn't play nice with vesa X driver" [Medium,Triaged]
<DanaG> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xorg/+bug/496773
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 496773 in xorg "Failsafe X should pick fbdev instead of vesa if KMS is in use" [Wishlist,Triaged]
<maxb> Is anyone else getting some rather weird intermittent display flickering in Lucid?
<RAOF> On Intel cards?  Yes.
<maxb> Indeed, on Intel. Is there a bug? I'm finding it hard to express the problem in searchable terms.
<RAOF> maxb: I don't know if there's a bug or not, actually.
<DanaG> ugh, my usb sound card just spat a bunch of random garbage at me.
<i_is_broke> im not, im not running an intel video either..so.
<DanaG> Including system sounds randomly repeated despite me not causing them.
<DanaG> It's like it randomly decided to play uninitialized memory, or something.
<i_is_broke> wow i had stuff like that happen to me when i was on 9.04 thats why i switched to karmic so fast.
<i_is_broke> and my sound was onboard intel.
<DanaG> I'd never had that issue on my good (core 2 duo) computer; it's only been on this Athlon XP computer that I've just had that.
<i_is_broke> oh i had a terrible time with 9.04 and intel....video sucked if it worked sound was total crap and i put in an old yamaha card and it worked fine..
<i_is_broke> almost made me mad enough to go back to windows...but then i said na...lol
<i_is_broke> ok im ssh'd into my lucid box right now...what kind of memory hogging should i be looking for its bouncing all over the place in top..with xorg and screensaver eating the mem and cpu alive.
<DanaG> hmm, try htop. it's nicer than just plain 'top'.
<i_is_broke> g/night all im out for the night...laters
<DanaG> I keep getting this  happening, over and over:
<DanaG> Dec 16 21:53:51 GLaDOS init: ttyS0 main process (16214) terminated with status 1
<DanaG> Dec 16 21:53:51 GLaDOS init: ttyS0 main process ended, respawning
<DanaG> ah, I see... I needed to put back the "-L"
<DanaG> on getty.
<DanaG> yay for a COHERENT explanation of how gnome-shell lacks usability: http://mso-chronicles.blogspot.com/2009/10/gnome-shell.html
<IdleOne> DanaG: to some up that article. gnome-shell is not intuitive at all and it sucks
<maco2> yeah, sounds like
<bjsnider> just from skimming thru it he's complaining that the requisite features haven't been implemented yet
<Jordan_U> I like the fact that with Gnome 3 the entire interface will be different depending on whether or not you have 3D accelleration
<bjsnider> which isn't a relevant point since that's obvious to anyone who isn't completely blind
<IdleOne> err that should of been sum up*
<bjsnider> Jordan_U, sort of like compiz
<IdleOne> in any case I found gnome-shell to be very difficult to use. not intuitive at all. I am a gnome user but at least with kde I can find my way around.
<bjsnider> i don't see what is so difficult about it
<Jordan_U> bjsnider: Except that for most things you can pretty much ignore the differences between metacity and compiz and work the same way with both. With Gnome 3 if you have 3D accelleration you lose your pannels, have a completely different application menu, workspaces work completely differently...
<bjsnider> they work better
<bjsnider> and the menus aren't completely different
<bjsnider> by the end they'll be the same
<Jordan_U> bjsnider: Try explaining to a user why one of their computers has an Applications menu and the other doesn't after a fresh install of the same version of Ubuntu
<bjsnider> there's no menu in osx either
<bjsnider> you'll see it if you move the mouse to the top left corner
<Jordan_U> bjsnider: Yes, but there is *always* no applications menu
<bjsnider> all of the stuff will be there when it's coded in
<Jordan_U> bjsnider: It doesn't change based on your hardware
<Jordan_U> UI fundamentally changing based on hardware is insane ( and no, Aero in Vista/7 is not fundamentally different, it's mostly just the same interface with more shiny )
<Jordan_U> *different with vs without
<bjsnider> no it is not insane
<bjsnider> taking avantage of horsepower to improve things is not insane
<Jordan_U> bjsnider: That would be fine if we could guarentee that that horsepower is always available, but we can't ( Apple can, they are lucky with their hardware lock in )
<bjsnider> the gnome-panel will still be there for people who use old crap
<Jordan_U> bjsnider: I'm not sure you are understanding my complaint
<bjsnider> i do understand it, and i reject it as nonsense
<bjsnider> gnome-shell is an improvement. it makes things quicker and easier, not slower and harder
<Jordan_U> bjsnider: I am not saying that gnome-shell is a bad interface, I am saying that I am going to have a hard time explaining to my dad that his laptop has a different interface than his desktop with the same version of Ubuntu after a fresh install
<bjsnider> so there should be no change
<Jordan_U> bjsnider: ?
<bjsnider> you're against the changes that have taken place in gnome since it was first released on the ground that it might be hard to explain
<Jordan_U> bjsnider: His laptop will be using gnome-shell by default and his desktop will be using gnome-panel by default.
<bjsnider> because his desktop is an old piece of crap and his laptop isn't?
<bjsnider> if he can't get used to it, you can switch back to gnome-panel
<Jordan_U> bjsnider: Because his desktop has an ati card that doesn't currently have 3D accelleration ( it's actually newer than his laptop )
<bjsnider> i thought all of the newer ati cards had compositing support
<bjsnider> i'll tell you what. i'm not a gnome-dev. why don't you take your concerns to irc.gnome.org and sign in to the #gnome-shell channel? they're al right there to isten to you
<Jordan_U> bjsnider: No, there are some that are no longer supported by fglrx and not yet supported by -ati
<bjsnider> if you're so convinced you're right and they're wrong you should be able to talk them out of their disastrous course of action
<bjsnider> nobody in this channel can do anything about it one way or the other
<Jordan_U> bjsnider: I don't think that I would change their minds and I think it would be rude to do that
<bjsnider> i did it
<Jordan_U> bjsnider: I'm not trying to change anything, just venting :)
<bjsnider> they changed my mind
<bjsnider> i took my concerns directly to them and challenged them to prove they were right or justify what their plans were, and they did it
<bjsnider> that's the probem with some people int he linux community
<bjsnider> "i'm not trying to change anything"
<bjsnider> why not?
<IdleOne> bjsnider: it's like buying a car this year and next years model has no steering wheel
<bjsnider> IdleOne, let me repeat
<bjsnider> i am not a gnome dev
<Jordan_U> bjsnider: Because there are so many changes I'd like to see in so many different projects that it's only practical to try to change things in those I care about most / am most fit to contribute to
<bjsnider> if you have those oncerns, take them to the people who can do something about them
<bjsnider> but you just explained your concerns to me. you can do it again
<bjsnider> we're not sitting here waiting for some faceless company to dump its garbage on us. this is linux. you can change things
<Jordan_U> bjsnider: Do you know off hand how to specify in irssi that you want to join #gnome-shell on irc.gnome.org and not freenode? ( I'm already connected to irc.gnome.org and looking at the irssi documentation )
<bjsnider> i don't use that app, i use xchat
<IdleOne> Jordan_U: switch to the server tab of gnome.org and /join #gnome-shell
<IdleOne> don't know exactly how to do it as I don't use irssi either
<Jordan_U> IdleOne: There is no server window ( that I can find ) specific to irc.gnome.org. But I'll figure it out
<Jordan_U> Ahh, /server
<Jordan_U> Ok, that didn't do what I wanted :). I think I need to get some sleep, but I will ask in #gnome-shell what their plan is. You've convinced me bjsnider.
<bjsnider> i'll be waiting in there. and i'll be grading you on your performance
<Jordan_U> :)
<DanaG> The thing is, "not yet implemented" is not the idea I got from gnome-shell preview... it seemed more like a "we won't be doing it" thing.
<DanaG> sorry, was off taking a shower.
<DanaG> Anyway, I also didn't get "easier and faster" from gnome shell.
<DanaG> Going from XP to Win7, things DO get easier and faster.  Same even from XP to Vista.
<DanaG> Oh yeah, random question: is there a way to have two partitions kept constantly in sync... but not a whole drive?
<DanaG> For example, a drive for 32-bit OS and home, and a drive for 64-bit OS and home... and sync the home so both stay the same?
<DanaG> The reason I still need 32-bit sometimes, is twofold: 1. to boot my drive on other, mostly 32-bit computers.  2. to run stuff that needs vmx86 mode.
<DanaG> ...which is, granted, very rarely ever needed.
<DanaG> Anyway, I've now come to like kde 4.4, aside from the constant segfaults I seem to keep getting.  Probably due to me pinning the Karmic Xorg.
<DanaG> I won't report any bugs on that, to avoid wasting time with darn-well unsupported configurations.
<DanaG> Big blocker for me and OSS drivers is R600 KMS powersavings.
<Jordan_U> DanaG: I think that is going to be available in 2.6.33, maybe it would be better to grab a new kernel package than pin an old xorg
<DanaG> I've been watching the dri-devel mailing list; as soon as I can get that in a 2.6.33-rc, I'll do that.
<DanaG> weird... got a lockup, with heavy disk activity.
<DanaG> It kept saying "emergency unfreeze"
<DanaG> oh, and I can't seem to get screen to send the escape-h over serial console.
<BUGabundo_work> morning
<Q-FUNK> hi!  is there a plymouth-theme-ubuntu in the works for Lucid?
<BUGabundo_work> !test
<ubottu> yes, I'm alive.
<BluesKaj> howdy
<BUGabundo_work> hey BluesKaj
<BluesKaj> hi BUGabundo_work
<|rt|> has anyone gotten the live cd to work under kvm?  I just get a black/blank screen once X starts
<popey> i had that yesterday
<popey> not tried today
<rr72_> is it possible to rollback to karmic from lucid?
<BUGabundo_work> rr72_: no
<rr72_> cool, now to spend some time lessing var logs
<rr72_> I get an unable to fund custom.cfg for when gdm loads ....
<rr72_> why wouldn't that install by default when I installed gdm?
<joshuajtl> can anyone tell me how I can find out what module my touchpad is using?
<rr72_> ok I am getting somewhere with my gdm issue, i am getting a "Unable to find users: no seat-id found" google here I come!
<DanaG> hmm, is your gdm up to date?
<yofel_> joshuajtl: you should be able to find that in your Xorg log file (/var/log/Xorg.0.log)
<DanaG> There recently was an update to fix "gdm not starting" issue caused by DKMS.
<joshuajtl> thank you yofel
<sebsebseb> hi
<i_is_broke> sebsebseb, hey hows it going?
<sebsebseb> i_is_broke: ok you?
<i_is_broke> not bad, trying to figure out why xorg is eating away at my memory..
<sebsebseb> oh ok
<i_is_broke> going to reboot and see if it quits, its into my swap area now.
<DanaG> grr, stupid metacity.. keeps aborting.
<i_is_broke> can you have more then one instance of ssh going to the same computer?
<i_is_broke> ah hey i can..cool
<i_is_broke> sorry still learning.:(
<i_is_broke> ok why does root have 2 pages of /user/sbin/console-kit-daemons running?
<DanaG> hmm, it's likely multiple threads of the same app.
<DanaG> hit f5 to make it a tree, if htop is what you're using.
<i_is_broke> yeah its what im using
<DanaG> I usally also set it to "shadow other users' processes"
<DanaG> go to the setup thingy.
<DanaG> oh yeah, and under X, htop supports mouse input.
<DanaG> Not sure about how that works with ssh.
<i_is_broke> ah i found it and it works..:D
<DanaG> Window manager warning: Log level 32: Execution of main.js threw exception: Error: Requiring Clutter, version none: Typelib file for namespace 'Clutter' (any version) not found
<DanaG> Window manager warning: Log level 32: Execution of main.js threw exception: Error: Requiring Clutter, version none: Typelib file for namespace 'Clutter' (any version) not found
<DanaG> er
<DanaG> forgot that ctrl-c in console is not "copy".
<DanaG>     JS ERROR: !!!   Exception was: Error: Requiring Clutter, version none: Typelib file for namespace 'Clutter' (any version) not found
<DanaG> yay for unusable gnome-shell.  Or rather, non-runnable.
<DanaG> grr, pulseaudio unloaded my sound card again.
<bjsnider> DanaG, have you got libclutter-1.0-0 installed?
<DanaG>  Yup.
<DanaG> Version: 1.0.8-1
<bjsnider> /usr/lib/libclutter-glx-1.0.so.0.8.0
<DanaG> Yes, that's there.
<bjsnider> antying else in /usr/lib?
<DanaG>  /usr/lib/libclutter-gtk-0.10.so.0
<bjsnider> is that all?
<bjsnider> be very sure
<bjsnider> is there any other file called libclutter.xxxx in /usr/lib
<DanaG> http://pastebin.com/f47929c95
<bjsnider> yes, you havet he symlinks too, so that's fine
<bjsnider> you do have clutter
<bjsnider> do you have libmutter?
<DanaG> lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root     26 2009-12-17 11:22 /usr/lib/libmutter-private.so.0 -> libmutter-private.so.0.0.0
<DanaG> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 145408 2009-10-12 10:14 /usr/lib/libmutter-private.so.0.0.0
<bjsnider> http://packages.ubuntu.com/lucid/amd64/libmutter0/filelist
<bjsnider> make sure those libs are present and accounted for
<bjsnider> also, is there a bug for this?
<DanaG> I guess I'll file one, if there isn't one already.
<DanaG> weird... I can't see where it checks for this "namespace" in strace.
<DanaG> www.csc.calpoly.edu/~dgoyette/gnome-shell-strace.log
<bjsnider> it looks to me like the libclutter/mutter packages were forward-ported from karmic. gnome-shell works here, so i don't know what coud be wrong exactly
<yoasif> any ideas on issues with webcams in lucid that worked in karmic?
<DanaG> [pid 10465] stat64("/usr/share/gnome-shell/js/ui/main",  <unfinished ...>
<DanaG> [pid 10465] stat64("/usr/share/gnome-shell/js/ui/main",  <unfinished ...>
<DanaG> er
<DanaG> argh, ctrl-c...
<DanaG> [pid 10465] <... stat64 resumed> 0xbf835450) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
<DanaG> oh, but main.js exists.
<bjsnider> the file does exist int hat location?
<bjsnider> what command are you running to start gnome-shell?
<DanaG> gnome-shell --xephyr
<DanaG> or gnome-shell --replace
<bjsnider> wait, you did remove compiz right?
<DanaG> It's installed, but even switching to metacity beforehand doesn't change anything.
<bjsnider> uninstall compiz
<DanaG> Why?
<bjsnider> i had to
<DanaG> That's booo--ooo-gus.
<bjsnider> you can put the thing back afterwards
<DanaG> (to quote the Car Talk guys)
<bjsnider> they're mutually exclusive
<DanaG> Makes no sense that having compiz installed would make gnome-shell fail to find a library that's there.
<bjsnider> clutter is probably disabled by compiz's presence
<bjsnider> try it
<DanaG> By its mere presence on the filesystem?
<DanaG> And why didn't anything appear in strace?
<bjsnider> they'll pry your precious compiz from your cold, dead hands, is that it?
<DanaG> If the mere presence of compiz on the file system causes clutter to break... that's really stupid.
<DanaG> Really really stupid design.
<DanaG> Aside from the whole "running together" thing.
<bjsnider> mutter cannot and will not run with compiz there
<DanaG> So, I get that.
<DanaG> But mutter not running if compiz is installed?  That's something I'd expect perhaps from Apple, but not from the Gnome devs.
<DanaG> er, I mean,
<DanaG> clutter disabling itself if compiz is installed.
<DanaG> nope, same error.
<bjsnider> maybe that's what is happening
<DanaG> Even with compiz removed.
<yoasif> DanaG, gnome shell works fine with compiz installed
<yoasif> IME
<DanaG> hmm, could this "girepository" thing have something to do with gnome-shell not starting?
<DanaG> Or xulrunner version?
<bjsnider> DanaG, Gustavo Noronha Silva is packaging it. is he on irc somewhere?
<DanaG> Beats me.
<bjsnider> it could be finding the clutter libs but they need to be newer than they are
<DanaG> What's weird is that I don't see much in strace output for "clutter"
<bjsnider> the gnome-shell in lucid is over a month newer than the libclutter
<bjsnider> and pulled from a git snpashot
<DanaG> wow.
<bjsnider> but
<bjsnider> it built against the existing libclutter
<bjsnider> if it was a version problem the build would have failed
<bjsnider> you need to talk to silva
<DanaG>    JS IMPORT: successfully imported module 'gi'
<DanaG>    JS IMPORT: Module 'main' left an exception set
<DanaG> gjs: error while loading shared libraries: libmozjs.so: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
<DanaG> when I just try to just plain run gjs.
<DanaG> !find libmozjs.so
<ubottu> File libmozjs.so found in kompozer, libmozjs-dev, libmozjs0d, libmozjs0d-dbg, libxul0d (and 6 others)
<DanaG> libmozjs.so does not exist... only libmozjs.so.0d exists.
<DanaG> gjs: symbol lookup error: /usr/lib/libgjs.so.0: undefined symbol: JS_SetScriptStackQuota
<DanaG> ah, so something really is broken.
<bjsnider> yes but for everybody or just you?
<bjsnider> libmozjs sounds like it has to do with firefox's javascript engine
<bjsnider> what's it called, spidermonkey?
<DanaG> Missing symbol was after I created a link.
<DanaG> hmm, if I instead symlink to /usr/lib/xulrunner-1.9.1.7pre/libmozjs.so, it works.
<DanaG> well, gjs, that is.
<bjsnider> gnome-shell works in that event?
<DanaG> nope, same clutter error.
<DanaG> I'm guessing gnome-shell doesn't like working with ubuntu-mozilla-dailies, though.
<bjsnider> well, i'd submitteth a buggeth
<DanaG> Much shorter test case:
<DanaG> www.csc.calpoly.edu/~dgoyette/strace-gjs.log
<DanaG> ls /usr/lib/girepository-1.0/
<DanaG> hmm, anything "clutter" in there?  Not for me.
<DanaG> !find Clutter*.typelib
<ubottu> Package/file Clutter*.typelib does not exist in lucid
<DanaG> !find Clutter.*.typelib
<ubottu> Package/file Clutter.*.typelib does not exist in lucid
<DanaG> argh.
<DanaG> !find Clutter-0.8.typelib
<ubottu> Package/file Clutter-0.8.typelib does not exist in lucid
<DanaG> welll, there's my problem!
<DanaG> weird... the only gnome-shell I see is karmic, not lucid.
<DanaG> http://live.gnome.org/GnomeShell/DesignerPlayground/BreadcrumbsEtc -- interesting.
<RAOF> DanaG: Yeah, I think the lucid packages FTBFS at the moment.
<DanaG> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1354787
<RAOF> In case you're wondering, gnome-shell doesn't work under nouveau on nv4b.
<RAOF> Compiz, however...
<DanaG> hmm, the only nouveau I have active is NV17.
<RAOF> Not so well taylored to the "GPU is extremely programmable" gallium philosophy, no.
<joshuajtl> i need some assistance folks, my touchpad is always haywire on ubuntu... im running karmic, with an alps touchpad using (i think) synaptics module... it's often difficult to use my touchpad it sticks, and is otherwise just crazy to use...
<joshuajtl> i dont know what to do about it
<joshuajtl> occasionally there is suddenly two vertical scroll areas, one right smack in the middle of the pad, and one on the right edge where its supposed to be...
<RAOF> joshuajtl: Support for 9.10 (Karmic) occurs in #ubuntu; this is for Lucid.  That said, have you tried filing a bug?  Have you tried asking on ubuntuforums?
<joshuajtl> no i havent tried either yet
<RAOF> Well, try #ubuntu, then ubuntuforums & search for bugs on launchpad.
<bjsnider> where does gnome store information about wallpapers its used in the past?
<DanaG> bjsnider: figured out my issue... it turns out stuff was using the karmic version, and the namespace file really was missing.
<DanaG> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1354787
<DanaG> er, the typelib file.
<bjsnider> how did that happen?
<DanaG> beats me... the Clutter-0.8.typelib file is missing.
<DanaG> !find Clutter-0.8.typelib
<ubottu> Package/file Clutter-0.8.typelib does not exist in lucid
<DanaG> !find Clutter-0.8.typelib karmic
<bjsnider> libclutter is at 0.10 in lucid
<ubottu> Package/file Clutter-0.8.typelib does not exist in karmic
<DanaG> anyway, there's no clutter-anything.typelib.
<bjsnider> libclutticus typelibbicus adbsenticus?
<BluesKaj> Errors were encountered while processing:  /var/cache/apt/archives/konq-plugins-l10n_4%3a4.3.0-1ubuntu2_all.deb E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1)
<BluesKaj> I keep getting this error , does it look familiar  ?
<bjsnider> there should be more specific info than that
<bjsnider> you could try apt-get -f install
<BluesKaj> I'm not installing anything specific, merely updating & upgrading
<bjsnider> yeah
<bjsnider> that command will still help usually
<joaopinto> dtchen, I have no idea about PULSE_NO_SIMD=1, so I guess no
<dtchen> export it in your shell's rc
<joaopinto> ok
<joaopinto> what is is expected to do ?
<joaopinto> it
<dtchen> disable mmx/sse acceleration for channel remapping and volume adjustment
<dtchen> if $PULSE_NO_SIMD is non-empty, PA falls back to the original software channel remapping and volume adjustment
<joaopinto> ok
<XiXaQ> is Evolution supposed to stay at 2.28 in lucid?
<nvme> do the current builds ignore hal fdis or something ?
<RAOF> As far as I'm aware, X no longer uses HAL, so yes.
<nvme> wait so its back to xorg configs now ?
<RAOF> I'm not sure what replaces HAL fdi's; probably something like udev rules.
<dtchen> see the halsectomy page
<RAOF> Of course!
<nvme> aw man, my mouse feels like its on roids without my custom fdi settings :(
<nvme> !halsectomy
<dtchen> I heart "nv". I really do.
<nvme> ?
<dtchen> true, suspend is broken; there is no glx, whatever.
<dtchen> actually suspend is fine; resume is shot ;)
<dtchen> however it's utterly awesome to not have insanely random crashes due to a proprietary gfx driver
<dtchen> nvme: see the Ubuntu wiki
<dtchen> or search the ubuntu-devel mailing list archives
<nvme> well i found the page that says hal is gone, but no info on what replace it
<dtchen> or blogosphere or whatever youngsters are using nowadays
#ubuntu+1 2009-12-18
<Ketsuban> Why is "do nothing" not an option for action when the laptop lid button is pressed? It's currently set to "blank screen", but that apparently means "crash" in whatever language Ubuntu speaks.
<nvme> oh okay this looks like it
<nvme> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Specs/Lucid/XorgHalsectomy
<bjsnider> dtchen, are you back on that again?
<bjsnider> ugh
<dtchen> bjsnider: yes, I am. For a kernel guy, having a non-crashing system is really useful.
<dtchen> cos you know, work can actually get done.
<bjsnider> they've spent a total of 12 minutes on that driver per year in the past decade
<bjsnider> might as well use vesa
<dtchen> bjsnider: like I said before, I don't really care about the fact that it's essentially unmaintained. I care about the fact that it's a crackton more stable.
<dtchen> yes, I did use stable for the entirety of Karmic.
<dtchen> s/stable/vesa/
<bjsnider> it's just really ironic
<bjsnider> they spend no time developing that piece of garbage, and yet it's much more stable for you than the one they constantly work on
<bjsnider> or maybe your graphics card is old junk
<dtchen> shrug. It isn't as if this hardware is spectacular, either. It's an HP, of course it sucks.
<bjsnider> i gues you don't work for the hewlett packard corporation
<i_is_broke> heh, some of the old junk runs better then the new crap there making now tho.think about that.
<dtchen> I don't think it would matter if I had/do.
<bjsnider> the blob never crashes this system
<dtchen> well, that's great. PA works wonderfully on my systems, too.
<dtchen> i.e., just because it "works" under one's purvey doesn't really mean a lot
<dtchen> purvey? purview. anyhoo
<nvme> !evdev
<RAOF> dtchen: Try nouveau, really.  It's like nv, but where resume works.
<nvme> anyone know how i can find out about 'evdev' rules ? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Specs/Lucid/XorgHalsectomy
<bjsnider> i tried to get him to do that
<bjsnider> he said he couldn't be bothered
<dtchen> argh.
<bjsnider> if he's using vesa on karmic...
<bjsnider> i don't even know how to comment on that
<dtchen> ok, let me explain: this laptop has a broken bios. It corrupts low memory on resume.
<RAOF> Ah, missed that.
<dtchen> so, in light of that, do you really think I give a flying wazoo if a gfx driver has working suspend & resume?
<RAOF> No, not really.
<dtchen> now, certainly, I could submit a quirk for linux to "reserve" the contaminated bits
<bjsnider> dtchen, if nouveau is the default in lucid, will you use it or go out of your way to use nv?
<dtchen> bjsnider: dude I'm no luddite
<dtchen> if it's there, I'm not going to rip it out like people do with PA
<bjsnider> i see
<dtchen> again, I'm *not* particularly attached to "nv". I *am* attached to a working system. Being able to see the actual alsa/pulse source code is slightly useful.
<bjsnider> what nvidia chip is in that thing?
<dtchen> 00:12.0 VGA compatible controller: nVidia Corporation C67 [GeForce 7150M / nForce 630M] (rev a2)
<bjsnider> no vdpau support
<oldude67> mine is older its a riva tnt2:D
<bjsnider> now that is old junk
<oldude67> works good.
<bjsnider> can't do any decent bling
<dtchen> I remember when the TNT was the new hotness. Heck, I remember the furor when it usurped the 3dfx lines.
<dtchen> "translucent water in quake?!"
<bjsnider> dtchen, i had a guy email me saying he had to rip out pa from karmic because he couldn't get surround sound to work...
<oldude67> now let me get this right, the kernel has to work with this release as well as with the release of the 8.04 lts?
<dtchen> oldude67: it should; there obviously isn't a guarantee
<dtchen> bjsnider: where "couldn't get surround sound to work" entails...?
<oldude67> i was just wondering if it was cause they could go from the 8.04 to the 10.4
<bjsnider> it sounded like he was grabbing mplayer from my ppa, playing a 5.1 ac3 or dts flick, and couldn't get the 5.1 side to work with his speakers...
<oldude67> and i understand there is no guarantees on updates.
<bjsnider> so his brilliant google-inspired decision was to rip out pa
<bjsnider> not to go to you for help
<dtchen> that's ok, people are Free to hang themselves. There's plenty of rope.
<bjsnider> there must be a lot of advice out there on google saying "if pa doesn't do exactly what you think it should, get rid of it"
<i_is_broke> ugh i should of reboot the computer before i logged out of ssh...grrr.
<dtchen> bjsnider: yeah, that's a battle I no longer care to fight
<bjsnider> you can't fight google
<bjsnider> you can't win
<dtchen> no, you can't fight stupid. It burns.
<bjsnider> he then had the gall to complain that no other sound output module would give him surround sound
<bjsnider> how the hell did he think he was going to achieve that without pulse...
<dtchen> it's possible through alsa-lib's plugin layer directly
<dtchen> (which is in fact how PA does it)
<bjsnider> well, he failed in that effort too
<bjsnider> he was using another output module
<bjsnider> can't remember the name now
<bjsnider> openal
<nvme> anyone know how i can have the mounting of stuff in /etc/fstab delayed (trying to improve my boot)
<nvme> *boot time
<RAOF> bjsnider: FWIW, ymanton now has some free time, part of which he plans to spend getting g3dvl to expose a VDPAU interface, which would be nice.
<bjsnider> g3dvl?
<RAOF> bjsnider: The gallium video-acceleration winsys - it currently does XvMC on the 3D engine, but there has also been work done to get gallium to drive the specialised video decoding hardware.
<RAOF> Where it exists, and use the 3D engine where it doesn't.
<bjsnider> yeah, i've heard of that being on the agenda
<bjsnider> it would be especially nice for intel users since most people have intel gpus
<RAOF> Sadly intel gpus are also horribly underpowered.
<bjsnider> the 4500 has purevideo type hardware in it
<bjsnider> doing jack squat in linux right now
<RAOF> Ah, well.
<bjsnider> it would be a big laptop power-saver for people who watch flicks on their laptops
 * RAOF would just like to offload some mpeg4 avc decoding to the TV box's 6600GT, so it can actually keep up with high-resolution video.
<bjsnider> get a newer card
<bjsnider> they're practically giving away the 8400s now
<bjsnider> probably because they're bumpgate cards
<XiXaQ> it seems versions for default software in lucid has been decided already, at least for many applications. Where can I find a list?
<XiXaQ> or is it so that the major versions have already been uploaded and there won't be any major upgrades in this cycle?
<bjsnider> of course there will
<XiXaQ> why?
<bjsnider> it's a conservative release, but not that conservative
<XiXaQ> I mean why is it obvious?
<bjsnider> look on the schedule for "debian import freeze" or whatever they call it
<bjsnider> then look for whatever package worries you on packages.debian.org for the current upstream version
<XiXaQ> I've seen those, but that'll include evolution 2.29, for instance and it still won't get into lucid.
<bjsnider> that's probably what will be pulled
<bjsnider> RAOF, when would you epect gallium to being to be used?
<bjsnider> begin to be used
<RAOF> As the default 3D provider?  I don't really know.  Probably a couple of mesa releases away.
<bjsnider> intel is wading into that pool a toe at a time
<RAOF> Right.  Because, until laribee comes out, that pool is much more interesting for nvidia & ati cards than for intel.
<RAOF> Not that it's completely uninteresting for intel, but the nvidia & ati cards are just so much more likely to want to rewrite their drivers, because nv5x and r600-r700 are really very different and intel isn't there yet.
<bjsnider> i've read some time in the latter half of next year
<RAOF> That mesa will release with gallium-default?  That wouldn't surprise me.
<bjsnider> yes
<RAOF> And it'd probably release with at least _some_ nouveau 3d enabled :)
<bjsnider> that would be nice
<bjsnider> XiXaQ, you can file a luanchpad bug that's a packaging request and then make your argument for why you want whatever this app is included in lucid
<XiXaQ> ?
<XiXaQ> it's not that I want a spesific package included. I want to know which packages to expect when we're done.
<bjsnider> well, i already told you
<bjsnider> whatever is upstream in debian at that moment
<XiXaQ> for instance, if I know that Evolution 2.28 will be included, and noone else, then I know now, what to expect in april.
<XiXaQ> bjsnider, are you sure?
<bjsnider> yep
<XiXaQ> so then, if Debian decides to package 2.30, then Ubuntu must obey even though it's been decided that Lucid should stick with 2.28?
<bjsnider> no
<bjsnider> you said you didn't know what had been decided
<bjsnider> now you say you do know
<XiXaQ> I did not.
<XiXaQ> I know what's been decided regarding _evolution_. I don't know what's been decided for all the other default apps and packages, if anything.
<XiXaQ> that's what I want to know.
<bjsnider> which evolutionis upstream right now?
<XiXaQ> right now? 2.28, i guess. Why?
<bjsnider> you guess
<XiXaQ> yes?
<XiXaQ> why does it matter?
<bjsnider> it's part of gnome isn't it?
<XiXaQ> yes, but Ubuntu will not stick with GNOME in this version.
<XiXaQ> that is, some will be 2.30 and some will be 2.28 aiui.
<XiXaQ> so, Evolution 2.30 will be released in march, but it will not be included in Lucid.
<bjsnider> nd you want to know which will be the case with evolution
<XiXaQ> no.
<XiXaQ> are you _trying_ to be difficult?
<bjsnider> i guess i'm not understanding what you're asking
<bjsnider> you know alraedy which evolution will be there
<XiXaQ> I want to have a general overview of which packages are planned to be included in lucid. Evolution is the _one_ application I _do_ know.
<bjsnider> oh, i see
<bjsnider> i thought you'd said that you were only interested in evolution
<XiXaQ> no, I just used that as an example of why I'm asking, since it breaks the pattern from all the previous versions of Ubuntu to not ship the latest upstream packages.
<bjsnider> they publish a "planned features" type document online for that info, but i don't know if it's up yet
<bjsnider> they're very conservastive with lts releases
<IdleOne> XiXaQ: I think what is important to remember is that Ubuntu use upstream but it is not bound by upstream, just because Debian is going to use for example evolution 2.30 does not mean Ubuntu will or even has to.
<IdleOne> least that is how I understand the ubuntu release philosophy
<bjsnider> it's likely whatever gets held back will be published in a ppa anyway at some point
<IdleOne> yup
<DanaG> (nautilus:10628): Gdk-CRITICAL **: gdk_window_set_back_pixmap: assertion `pixmap == NULL || gdk_drawable_get_depth (window) == gdk_drawable_get_depth (pixmap)' failed
<XiXaQ> IdleOne, I know. That's why I'm asking where I can find out which versions are decided for lucid. It's more useful to discuss the issues while they're relevant.
<RAOF> XiXaQ: Evolution is a bit of a special case, but it's by no means unique; we shipped gdm 2.20 for a couple of releases after the rewrite was release and only switched in Karmic.
<XiXaQ> if I always hear about the decisions a few weeks after they've been made, then I loose my opportunity to voice my opinion.
<IdleOne> XiXaQ: not sure where the list of proposed versions is or if there even is one at this point
<IdleOne> RAOF: might know better
<bjsnider> the import freeze wouldn't be for months i would think
<RAOF> XiXaQ: So, the policy is basically the same: latest upstream version at feature-freeze time, barring exceptions - in this case, it looks like Evolution is going to go through stability-breaking changes, and the concern is that 2.30 won't be sufficiently stable.
<XiXaQ> IdleOne, ok, this is an issue, I think. It's very important for people to know what to expect. We see the concequences of the opposite with karmic. Everyone expected it to be the best release yet, and that's because very few were aware of the big underlying changes that had been made.
<bjsnider> fedora publishes these great documents detailing exactly what they want to import and how far they've gotten. ubuntu needs to do that
<XiXaQ> bjsnider, I'm sorry if I came across a bit strongly there, btw. I'm trying to quit smoking and I'm a bit edgy these days. :>
<bjsnider> well, i wasn't tryingt o be sarcastic, i just didn't quite know what you were trying to ask
<XiXaQ> bjsnider, I think so too. It makes it very much easier to avoid "over selling" Ubuntu.
<XiXaQ> I got that.
<RAOF> bjsnider: But we don't really have enough information to do that, and where we do have enough information (ie: we're also upstream) there's plenty of design docs on the wiki.
<bjsnider> RAOF, you've seen the fedora docoument i'm talking about?
<RAOF> I'm not sure that the characterisation of Karmic is correct, either, but I'm not in a particularly good position to comment.
<DanaG> weird... nautilus is drawing my desktop as opaque window-background color.
<RAOF> bjsnider: I've seen a bunch of fedora documents; what are you particularly thinking of?
<bjsnider> i'll see if i can find it
<XiXaQ> karmic is the most unstable distro I've ever used, I think. I can't remember any release of ubuntu that's been so unreliable.
<RAOF> But is that your peculiar hardware, or more general?
<RAOF> Karmic hasn't been unreliable here, for example.
<bjsnider> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/12/FeatureList
<XiXaQ> it's fairly predictably unreliable though, so I can live with it for now. (And I've filed bugs on the issues)
<bjsnider> what's unstable in karmic?
<XiXaQ> I have to remember to unplug my mobile phone before rebooting, for instance, otherwise I get a kernel panic when the login screen appears. Not a very big issue, though it's annoying when I forget it.
<XiXaQ> and network-manager must be restarted when I reconnect my hspa connection. It goes nuts on cpu cycles and nothing connects. But that was just a matter of adding a launcher to the panel, so I can live with that as well for now.
<RAOF> bjsnider: https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/lucid looks like basically the same thing.
<XiXaQ> I've read all the blueprints.. that's not really what I'm after.
<DanaG> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nautilus/+bug/491521
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 491521 in nautilus "Decorations and RGBA" [High,In progress]
<RAOF> What's different between the blueprints and the Fedora 12 feature list?
<bjsnider> the names of the items are overly technical compared to the fedora document, and there's no up-front description
<XiXaQ> I don't know as I haven't looked at Fedoras feature list. But I want something far more comprehensible than the blueprints.
<bjsnider> XIXi posted the fedora document earlier
<RAOF> XiXaQ: I don't believe that the information that you're after exists; indeed, I don't believe that the decisions you think are being taken in fact exist.
<DanaG> http://www.cimitan.com/blog/  -- interesting idea, the placement of the login box in the same place as where the progress bar was.
<XiXaQ> RAOF, it's been confirmed for me, that it's been decided that Evolution will stay at 2.28 in lucid (and also in RHEL 6)
<RAOF> XiXaQ: That's true, yes.
<RAOF> XiXaQ: But that's a significantly special case.
<XiXaQ> RAOF, I'd like to know that the discussion exists before the conclusion is reached. That shouldn't be so hard to do?
<RAOF> You'd probably want to be following the desktop-team for stuff like that.
<XiXaQ> I pay close attention to ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com. Any other good sources?
<XiXaQ> I thought that was the primary list for issues like that, but I haven't seen anything about these discussions there.
<bjsnider> you could also post a packaging-request bug and make your argument there. you might talk them into your way of thinking
<RAOF> Possibly #ubuntu-desktop.  I'm not sure where the particular discussion occurred; it's entirely possible that it was at UDS.
<XiXaQ> bjsnider, assuming that I know that any discussions exist. It'd be a lot of resources wasted if everyone should file a packaging bug on every package that exists just in order to confirm that it won't be denied.
<bjsnider> oh, everyone won't
<bjsnider> believe me, hardly anyone will
<bjsnider> hardly any users seem to care
<RAOF> If you know the new upstream version will fix a bug you experience, that's useful information to have on a bug.
<RAOF> If you know the new upstream version will introduce a significant feature that you'd find useful, that's good information to have on a bug.
<XiXaQ> yes, but if the assumption is that the new version will be included, it doesn't seem wise to file a bug on it not being included just in case it isn't.
<bjsnider> but even after the decision is made, it can be reversed
<bjsnider> there's nothing written in stone
<XiXaQ> hmm, for a release named lucid, the development discussions seem very foggy.
<bjsnider> it can even sometimes be reversed after the import freeze
<RAOF> XiXaQ: That depends on what's actually in the bug you file - if you add a comment to an existing bug that "this is fixed in $NEW_UPSTREAM_VERSION", that's useful.  If you want a shiny new feature in the new upstream version, it's useful to file a bug saying "please add $FOO; available in $NEW_UPSTREAM_VERNION"
<RAOF> There are limited packagers, and limited time; knowing that a new upstream version fixes something we care about or includes a shiny new feature that people care about makes it easier to prioritise.
<XiXaQ> hmm. If I feel it's safe to assume that a certain package will be included in Ubuntu, you still want me to file a bug about it not being included, just in case? That seems like a waste of everyones time.
<RAOF> It's not necessarily safe to assume; this depends.
<RAOF> What package is it that you think it's safe to assume it'll be included in Ubuntu?  Why do you assume it'll be available?
<RAOF> If you assume it'll be available because it's in Debian testing and we've been syncing from Debian, then yes, that's safe to assume that the next autosync run will pull it in.
<bjsnider> autosync?
<XiXaQ> well, until a few hours ago, I was confident Evolution 2.29 would appear in lucid any day now. I was just wondering _when_ to expect it. That's when Matthew Barnes told me that seb128 had told him it had been decided not to include it in 10.04.
<XiXaQ> I don't think Ubuntu has ever held back a version of Evolution from the current upstream version of GNOME before.
<bjsnider> that wouldn't work in the ppa build system. minor changes would have to be made to certain files in the debian diretory
<RAOF> Right.  This is an example of the rare exceptions.  We _have_ held back on other core GNOME compenents before.
<XiXaQ> RAOF, ok. Not often anyway.
<RAOF> Indeed.
<XiXaQ> but I really don't mind breaking the patterns from time to time. What I do mind, is not being aware of it.
 * DanaG wonders when compiz and metacity will get MPX support.
<RAOF> That's fair.
<XiXaQ> should be easy to make a routine of sending a short mail about this to ubuntu-desktop ml for instance.
<RAOF> Well, except that it's not a routine instance.
<XiXaQ> no, that's the reason why it's so important to have a routine for it.
<XiXaQ> everyone expects an established pattern to be followed unless they receive contradictory information.
<RAOF> Right.  But it's difficult to make a routine of something that's happened twice that I can think of.
<RAOF> It _would_ be good to have the reasoning somewhere obivous.
<XiXaQ> "When something unpredicted happens, make sure everyone knows about it". How difficult is that? Most developers should know about exception handling?
<XiXaQ> of course, this would also help give it-journalists something to write about, giving us more free pr, which is good.
<sebsebseb> I have caught up good discussion XiXaQ and the others
<sebsebseb> I think it would be a good idea if Ubuntu had something like the Feature List pages for Fedora
<sebsebseb> that's rather clear, about what is to come and progress of features,  I have seen it for Fedora 11
<sebsebseb> as for Karmic it has been a let down for many people,  there are quite a lot of negative articles out there on the web, as well as peoples negative comments
<sebsebseb> I don't know much about Lucid yet, but from what I know, I think it will be a pretty good release, well I hope so anyway, since it's LTS
<RAOF> What's different between the current blueprints page and the fedora features page?  Or, in other words, what would need to change to make the blueprints page as useful to you as the fedora page?
<sebsebseb> ,but ideally non LTS releases should also be pretty good :)
<sebsebseb> RAOF: well the blue prints are loads of pages
<sebsebseb> Fedora's stuff is one page
<RAOF> So are the fedora pages.
<RAOF> They're lots of different pages, with one master-list page.  Similarly, https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/lucid
<sebsebseb> oh
<RAOF> So, is perhaps the answer "people don't know how to find Ubuntu's list page as easily"? :)
<sebsebseb> oh I have been on the blue prints before
<XiXaQ> hmm. I'm looking for something less detailed, as I said before.
<sebsebseb> RAOF: XiXaQ  look nice and clear feature list, uhmm table even,  showing their progress percentagewise as well, and a summar of the feature, then from it people can go on the pages with more details https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/13/FeatureList
<sebsebseb> where as the Ubuntu blue prints,  the names are technical,  and things are done on more than one page, as well as pages for details about the feature.  oh and the IRC stuff isn't really a Lucid feature, but it is a blueprint
<RAOF> So, the difference between that and the blueprints list would basically be the one-line summary?
<sebsebseb> I have to only go on one page to get an idea of what is to come in Fedora 12,  where as with Ubuntu I would have to go on many pages.
<XiXaQ> not necessarily.
<sebsebseb> Fedora 12 uhmm Ubuntu, another typeo I did earlier was Summary
<sebsebseb> I correct myself and mess up again hmm
<sebsebseb> Fedora 13
<sebsebseb> RAOF: that's fne to have loads of technical details some where for developers and such,  but the average Ubuntu user won't really understand about most of that,  however they will understand if there's a page like Fedora 13's  Feature List with the main features on one page.
<RAOF> Right.  But the _reason_ you can do that is because there isn't a one-line feature-summary on the blueprints page and there is on the Fedora page.
<sebsebseb> also the blueprints well,  that would take quite a bit of time, for me to go through it all
<sebsebseb> XiXaQ: and that's the kind of thing you want as well or?
<sebsebseb> RAOF: tables can also be added to as new features get accepted
<RAOF> As can blueprints.
<sebsebseb> right now no one really knows what the main Lucid features will actsualley be right?
<sebsebseb> RAOF: sure, but it's good to have a table like Fedora's feature list, with the main stuff
<XiXaQ> I think mails would do. "We've decided to stick with Evolution 2.28 in Lucid because of many underlying changed in 2.29/2.30 that would not be suitable for Evolution. See blueprint x"
<XiXaQ> that would suffice.
<RAOF> sebsebseb: The blueprints _are_ the main stuff.
<sebsebseb> RAOF: well it could get presented in a better way I expect, so don't have to go on so many pages
<RAOF> Which is what I'm suggesting; rather than duplicating existing work, we get launchpad to present the existing information in a better way.
<RAOF> XiXaQ's problem is orthogonal; that's something that just hasn't been announced anywhere visible.
<sebsebseb> XiXaQ: Evolution uh huh, well  hopefuly Thunderbird 3 will be in the repo :)
<XiXaQ> sebsebseb, again, it was just an example. I think it's very strange that it isn't immediately visible to the entire community that a decision like that has been made.
<sebsebseb> XiXaQ: well it wasn't clear to the whole community that with 9.04, they would put in their edited fast user account switcher, resulting in shut down and log out being removed from the system menu, when that's enabled.  They are also really meant to be in the system menu according to upstream Gnome.   Also it wasn't clear that in Karmic that most of the default screensavers would be removed from the default install,  screensavers that have been
<sebsebseb> there since I guess the first release.  Plus your Evolution issue.  I guess these are just seen as little things by many people,  things that  aren't really worth telling loads of people about.
<bjsnider> kaffeine was mistakenly bumped to pre-1 in karmic when it should have stayed with 0.8.8 as well
<sebsebseb> XiXaQ: at least fusa looks better in 9.10 :)  nice icon
<XiXaQ> yes, lots of improvements. I'm not complaining about karmic in any way. I'm just saying that it would be easier for people to understand why there are some nasty issues in it if they knew about the massive changes well in advance.
<sebsebseb> XiXaQ: Ubuntu like being open about loads of stuff, but you still got to know where to get info from.
<sebsebseb> some people thought Karmic would compete properly against Windows 7 or something,  in fact there was a good comment on the web I read to something and that person would stay on Windows 7 whilst waiting for Lucid.  As someone who has used Ubuntu for long enough,  I know that Karmic was never made to compete properly against Wndows 7.
<sebsebseb> 10.04 will have a better chance at that, it seems
<sebsebseb> Also as someone who has used it long enough, I know that newer is not always better, and I know that with Ubuntu it's not about what is the latest, it's about what is still supported,  loads of users do not know this.  That's something Canonical and the Ubuntu community should be a lot more clear about really, I think.
<BluesKaj> well, 10.04 still needs a lotta work
<sebsebseb> There was a good comment on the web that basically said it's unacceptable for 9.04 to still not provide the proper Firefox 3.5 from the repo,  yes the proper one not Shiretoko.  I guess a user that doesn't reolize that, normalley  or always/only  it's security updates from the repo.  That's something else that should be made more clear to users I guess.  Also whilst I am at it, it would probably be a good idea for it to be made clear to users,
<sebsebseb> that it's a good idea to md5sum/sha1sum or both even,  the ISO, before burning the contents to CD.
<sebsebseb> Well nothing is perfect I guess!
<sebsebseb> BluesKaj: well yeah, but I have a feeling it will be a pretty good release :)
<bjsnider> god is perfect, if there is one
<sebsebseb> bjsnider: yeah I guess so
<RAOF> bjsnider: Totally off topic (continue in #ubuntu-offtopic, if you want), but there are plenty of "god" definitions which don't include perfection :)
<sebsebseb> XiXaQ: well there are the release notes, but loads of users won't read those, unless someone tells them to
<sebsebseb> !notes |  XiXaQ
<ubottu> XiXaQ: Ubuntu 9.10 (Karmic Koala) release notes can be found here: http://www.ubuntu.com/getubuntu/releasenotes/910
<sebsebseb> XiXaQ: also that's when it's released, not before release, but  the alpha's and such get a release notes type page as well
<sebsebseb> to go with the subject of things being perfect or not,  i'll do this.  I read a comment on the web, about someone going back to Windows 7, because they didn't like Karmic,  if I remember correctly.
<sebsebseb> also, because I wanted to
<i_is_broke> you know i havent tried vista on my own computer, but i did look at it in the stores and on my brother computer..and hated it.i havent even seen windows 7 yet.
<i_is_broke> i just got so upset with windows, that it would have to take an awful lot to get me to ever go back to it.
<rr72_> lucid FTW!
<i_is_broke> rr72_, well even as buggy as karmic was and is for some, its still not as bad as windows, cause i didnt have to buy a new computer just to run it.
<sebsebseb> i_is_broke: I tried the RC for Vista Version 2 (Windows 7) not used a final yet,  I am thinking virtual machine a trial
<i_is_broke> sebsebseb, thats what i thought to,might do that after christmas,but the grandkids come first.
 * rr72_ hides from KB1JWQ_ 
<i_is_broke> heck i even took my name out of there free beta trials i was so upset.
<i_is_broke> they were going to send me windows 7 to use as a tester and told them thanks but no thanks..should of took it then quit.
<i_is_broke> lol
<sebsebseb> i_is_broke: well Windows 7 is meant to use less resources so be able to run on certain types of computers that VIsta woudn't run on or whatever.  oh yeah by the way their off topic rule  goes for here as well
<i_is_broke> lol yeah
<i_is_broke> sorry
<sebsebseb> so pm if you want, but I am also in #ubuntu-offtopic   I don't go there much, since don't like it much
<i_is_broke> sorry  peeps...
<rr72_> sebsebseb~ PM ok from anyone to you? :_P
<rr72_> *:-P
<sebsebseb> well it can be annoying when doing support in #ubuntu and they start pm'ing when really they should of just stayed in the channel
<sebsebseb> for example
<bjsnider> should have just stayed...
<sebsebseb> ,but useualley I don't mind pm
<sebsebseb> bjsnider: I mean pm'ing about something, when for example really it would have been better to ask the channel
<i_is_broke> anyhow, did i see someone saying they was going back to the xorg setup?
<i_is_broke> is that just for now or is it going to stay???
<sebsebseb> bjsnider: they tend to also stay in the channel,  when they try and get their pm support
<sebsebseb> !pm
<ubottu> Please ask your questions in the channel so that other people can help you, benefit from your questions and answers, and ensure that you're not getting bad advice. Please note that some people find it rude to be sent a PM without being asked for permission to do so first.
<i_is_broke> ok, have a question about ramzswap, if i use it on my computer will it just make the memory my swap and if i dont have a lot,cause it to start using swap memory on the hard drive?
<i_is_broke> im using it on my lucid box right now.
<sebsebseb> rr72_: your answer is above, if you missed it
<sebsebseb> well it's still there, even if you didn't miss it,  :D
<rr72_> <exclaim-mark>off topic :-P
<sebsebseb> rr72_: hmm/hrm ?
<i_is_broke> ok if i run 9.10 server on my home server, when 10.4 comes out, will i still be able to update to it as an lts?
<liquid> anyideas? http://pastebin.com/d1200a27a
<RAOF> i_is_broke: Yes.  10.04 will be an LTS release; that's not going to change depending on how you got to 10.04.
<XiXaQ> sebsebseb, you have to know where to get the info from, yes. And I've been asking that question for a long time, and noone seems to be able to give an answer. That suggests to me, that the information might not exist in the form I'd like.
<XiXaQ> sebsebseb, the release notes are _way_ too late. We should have a community filled with people knowledgable about the release way before it is released.
<XiXaQ> i_is_broke, I haven't tried Windows 7 either, but that's not because I'm upset with Microsoft. Actually, I just don't care about them anymore. They don't have anything I want. Alot of companies don't have what I want. I can't be upset with them all.
<sebsebseb> XiXaQ: nice idea, but it's mainly people that are quite new to Ubuntu using it these days, I guess
<i_is_broke> XiXaQ, well its all personal reasons im upset with them..
<sebsebseb> also a lot of these people haven't tried another Linux distro yet
<bjsnider> RAOF, i'd like to see matroksa support and vdpau in gstreamer. any thoughts on that?
<XiXaQ> sebsebseb, I've been using Ubuntu since 5.04 and still I don't know where to get this information in time. That should say something.
<RAOF> bjsnider: Matroska support is there; vdpau is being talked about.
<sebsebseb> Desktop Linux is so much more than just Ubuntu, but it seems that the average Ubuntu user, does not know this.
<sebsebseb> XiXaQ: second release in 2005 for me, Fedora Core 2 and 4 before it
<bjsnider> RAOF, matroksa support with all features including alternate audio/chapters etc.?
<XiXaQ> oh, how I wish the term "Desktop Linux" would die a quiet death. It's a meaningless expression which only serves to confuse.
<sebsebseb> XiXaQ: to some extent maybe so.  because of laptops/notebooks and netbooks as well
<i_is_broke> lets see i started with slack, went to suse , then to redhate, then to debian, then to ubuntu, then back to slack then to ubuntu..and have been here ever since.
<RAOF> bjsnider: The former?  I believe so.  The second?  Dunno.  I don't know if that requires GStreamer support, or whether it's Totem not supporting it.
<XiXaQ> sebsebseb, let me elaborate. Would you agree that Debian is one of the biggest Linux distros?
<sebsebseb> also I guess a more proper term instead of Desktop Linux that is very similar to it is,  Desktop GNU/Linux
<sebsebseb> XiXaQ: of course it is
<sebsebseb> XiXaQ: ,but how many of them use Ubuntu a lot of the time?
<i_is_broke> yeah, of course redhat isnt free:(
<bjsnider> either way it's folded into gnome
<XiXaQ> sebsebseb, then Debian GNU/FreeBSD is a Linux distro with a FreeBSD kernel?
<sebsebseb> Debian can also use Hurd
<sebsebseb> instead of Linux
<XiXaQ> right.
<bjsnider> there is no totem-xine anymore. totem is gstreamer 100% now
<sebsebseb> XiXaQ: Desktop and Server, but now we got other devices as well, mobile etc
<sebsebseb> well I guess it's,  Desktop,  mobile,  and cloud?
<sebsebseb> mobile in this context being notebooks and netbooks and mobile phones
<XiXaQ> sebsebseb, then what we're communicating is that Debian is a Linux distro except when it's not. That's ... bad communication. For Debian, using GNU/Linux in the name is good. For Ubuntu, which aims to be a user friendly alternative to the proprietary stuff, "Linux" should be hidden, imho.
<RAOF> Except "Linux" is a relatively well known trademark.  GNU isn't.
<sebsebseb> XiXaQ: By default Debian uses Linux
<RAOF> bjsnider: Is there a bug report that you know for Totem not respecting matroska chapters?  If not, that'd be a good start :)
<XiXaQ> sebsebseb, ergo what I said: It's a Linux distro except when it's not. Through that at your grandparents and see how they react.
<bjsnider> not that i know of. but there are lots of gnome bugs that go back years without having been dealt with
<sebsebseb> my point when using Desktop Linux
<XiXaQ> throw!
<sebsebseb> is to say that
<sebsebseb> there is more than one distro
<sebsebseb> ,but sometimes or a lot of the time when I use it, that isn't really clear
<sebsebseb> and also that it's the desttop, for the consumer/homeuser,  not some commercial  business server
<sebsebseb> for example
<XiXaQ> sebsebseb, then you also have to explain the concept of distros, meaning that you also have to explain the different kernels, forcing you to explain what a kernel is. At this point, you seem like such an advanced user, if you tell them it's user friendly, they won't believe you.
<sebsebseb> when I tell people online for example, about Ubuntu and sometimes other distros even,  I usually give them a basic idea of what Linux is as well.
<XiXaQ> ok? Can you give me a short an simple explanation so I can use it when I encounter the question?
<sebsebseb> XiXaQ: By the way this is all off topic, for this channel.
<XiXaQ> indeed. :)
<XiXaQ> except for the fact that we're talking about Lucid communication :>
<sebsebseb> All operating systems have a kernel, a kernel is  a program in the background, that deals with all hardware and software.
<sebsebseb> My definition might not be 100% correct, but it's good enough for a basic idea.
<sebsebseb> the kernel is the heart/core of the OS
<XiXaQ> so Linux is like Windows? It's where you install the applications?
<sebsebseb> no  the kernel is the heart/core of the operating system
<i_is_broke> well sort of they are both operating systems.
<sebsebseb> the operating systems are,  Windows, Mac OS X, and Linux distributions  such as Ubuntu, and Mandriva, etc
<i_is_broke> but so is osx unix
<sebsebseb> instead of us Linux people calling it an operating system, we call it a distribution or distro for short
<XiXaQ> sebsebseb, but you just said Linux _wasn't_ like Windows? I'm confused.
<bjsnider> there is a linux kernel, and a windows (ntoskernl) kernel
<sebsebseb> A Linux distro such as Ubuntu or Mandriva, can be used for  the basic Windows tasks such as using the Internet, and more
<sebsebseb> bjsnider: sure, but he wants a basic thing to say to people that don't know about this kind of stuff
<bjsnider> everything is built on top of the kernel
<XiXaQ> oh, I get it! Linux is the _core_ of the Operating system, so Ubuntu and Windows both use Linux, but Linux uses different applications, like Firefox instead of Internet Explorer?
<sebsebseb> XiXaQ: normalley they don't go that far?
<XiXaQ> sebsebseb, you're right. normally, they say: "you know what, this seems complicated, and Windows works for me".
<bjsnider> windows does not use the linux kernel
<bjsnider> microsoft is far too stupid to do that
<sebsebseb> if they start with that, you could say that xorg is the in the background, program responsible for running the graphical programs in Ubuntu/Mandriva/whatever
<XiXaQ> bjsnider, I was trying to show why I think Ubuntu should stop nagging about Linux.
<bjsnider> they'd prefer to pay a kernel team to develop an inferior product than use a free one
<XiXaQ> sebsebseb, oh.. Someone told me the window manager did that..?
<sebsebseb> XiXaQ: Xorg runs the Gnome and KDE desktop envrionments and window managers such as Fluxbox,  you decide which one to use,  well distros usually have one by default
<XiXaQ> the point is that if you talk about Ubuntu, then everyone knows what you're talking about. If you talk about Linux, then you just invite a lot of questions that doesn't bring any answers to the newbies.
<sebsebseb> XiXaQ: depends on who they are etc
<sebsebseb> ,but I guess I normalley say that Ubuntu is an alternative to  Windows for what they want to do
<sebsebseb> then later I may explain about Linux and such
<liquid>  /set irc_conf_mode on
<XiXaQ> of course, it's always best not to either overestimate or underestimate people, but if you have to choose, I think it's better to underestimate everyone.
<bjsnider> i don't want a majority of people using linux
<bjsnider> i'd rather have it down at 10%
<XiXaQ> nobody uses Linux. They use tools that use Linux.
<bjsnider> just enough to drive good development and that's all
<liquid> like chrome-os
<sebsebseb> XiXaQ: most people are pretty stupid at computers really,  that is also  Ubuntu's target market really,  and if Canonical target these users properly, they can make some money doing so,  Ubuntu One is a start for those that want  more than 2GB  of space.  Also I have read about a music store,  where there will also be a plugin for Rythombox, and the music will be probably bought from the Amazon store.
<sebsebseb> XiXaQ: most people that use computers, being more exact when it came to what I just said
<sebsebseb> bjsnider: yeah 10% market share is good,  that will bring enough good apps to Linux as well, uhmm yeah commercial apps hmm
<sebsebseb> ideally most software should be opensource/freesoftware sure, but there are also some pretty good closed source apps our there
<XiXaQ> they're not stupid. They're not that interested. That's my point: if we make the communication blurry and incomprehensible, then we are actively discouraging them from even trying it.
<bjsnider> that's fine by me
<sebsebseb> some people are better off with Windows really
<bjsnider> make it so esoteric that most people don't want to learn how to use it
<XiXaQ> bjsnider, why don't you want people to use free software?
<sebsebseb> XiXaQ: if enough people use Ubuntu more malicious stuff will be made for it, oh sure the user will probably have to install them self, but yeah what I just said
<XiXaQ> bjsnider, there are many systems like that. :)
<sebsebseb> in fact recently there was something on gnome look  that was meant to be a screensaver, which then turned out to be a malicious program
<XiXaQ> sebsebseb, uh..
<bjsnider> it's likely to dumb down linux to the point where it would be boring and full of feature bloat, like windows
<liquid> 10% would still be a big enough market for virus makers
<XiXaQ> sebsebseb, have a little faith. That's just MS FUD right there. The fact that there is little malware for free systems, is not just a matter of user levels.
<XiXaQ> bjsnider, then you're saying that you consider stuff like GNOME to be a part of Linux?
<sebsebseb> liquid: well yeah Mac OS X is apparnatlly on 10% now, and some viruses and such has been made for it
<sebsebseb> viruses or such, whatever
<sebsebseb> bjsnider: to some extent the feature bloat is already happening
<XiXaQ> sebsebseb, is that true, or just a rumour? I had a look at the wildlist recently, and they're all Windowsviruses.
<liquid> linus "kernel will probably double in size before stabilizing" apx quote
<XiXaQ> feature bloat in Linux or Linux distros?
<sebsebseb> bjsnider: Ubuntu One in the default install, uhmmm a lot of us don't want to use that, me included.  Yes it's a way for Canonical to make money from people who want more than 2GB space,  but it's also being forced on users in the default install hmm.  Maybe a better idea would be for users to know that it's available and then let them choose to install it or not.  Same thing for this music store idea I hav read something about that's meant to be
<sebsebseb> in 10.04.
<bjsnider> the kernel has already doubled in size many times over. i think it doubles almost every year
<XiXaQ> at the moment, I believe most of the new features in Linux are for fairly advanced users.
<dtchen> huh?
<dtchen> sebsebseb: how are you quantifying "a lot of us"?
<XiXaQ> sebsebseb, I disagree. But you have to remember that we haven't seen the real usage of Ubuntu One yet. The same goes for Telepathy. Right now, it just seems like something that's nice to have, but they'll have side effects that will revolutionize things.
<bjsnider> sebsebseb, ubuntu one wasn't what i was talking about when i mentioned feature bloat
<sebsebseb> dtchen: well I don't know, but probably loads of 9.10 users, dont' use Ubuntu One
<dtchen> "probably loads"
<bjsnider> "adobe reader" is a good example of feature bloat
<sebsebseb> bjsnider: the kernel doubleing in size ok, and what else?
<XiXaQ> imagine being able to load a live-cd, log onto u1 and have the system sync your settings to give you your contacts, calendars, tasks, memos, firefox history and bookmarks, etc. Or between your computer, just by entering a single password. That'll be nice.
<bjsnider> linux has a tiny little program for looking at pdf files that works spectacularly well
<liquid> Ubuntu one could eventually tie into user preferences and such ...aka login on any pc.
<liquid> :p
<XiXaQ> bjsnider, that's not Linux, is it?
<bjsnider> what, adobe reader?
<liquid> its like evice or something.. the app
<XiXaQ> bjsnider, when you talk about feature bloat in Linux, I would not expect to hear anything about PDF readers or desktop applications, but rather something about KVM+KSM, and those kinds of things.
<bjsnider> no, i'm saying adobe reader in windows is a perfect example of how windows attracts that kind of bloated garbage like a cow patty attracts flies
<i_is_broke> ok be back in a minute..reboot...ugh.
<sebsebseb> Some people aren't happy that Gimp won't be in 10.04, but I don't mind about that, since I don't make graphics anyway, and if I start to, I can install gimp or something else anyway.  Plus there's that other program that people think will be better than F-Spot.  Here's another thing some people aren't happy that Ubuntu has Mono in the default install.  Well I guess the defaults will never make all users really happy them.
<sebsebseb> about them
<bjsnider> i don't want to see that happening in linux. and it would happen if 90% of computer users were using it
<sebsebseb> bjsnider: there are good PDF   alternatives for  Desktop Linux :)
<XiXaQ> bjsnider, there you go with that "Linux" of yours again. That's _not_ a Linux issue. PDF readers will never be implemented in the kernel.
<XiXaQ> bjsnider, doesn't matter if 10% or 100% uses Linux.. It will never implement a PDF reader.
<bjsnider> ok, call it what you want
<XiXaQ> I call it Ubuntu.
<liquid> oss alows for evolution, propriority dosen't
<RAOF> bjsnider: I think that's partially an artefact of propritary software, though.
<RAOF> bjsnider: Combined with the "kindly bundle the world" philosophy of windows application distribution.
<RAOF> bjsnider: I don't think it's an artefact of Windows' 90% market share.
<bjsnider> RAOF, that might be ture, but it's also unquestionably because of the ignorance of the average user
<dtchen> to some extent, this is all petty handwaving. Of course there will be "bloat" as software is written/bundled to attract some target users.
<XiXaQ> bjsnider, would you say that Lubuntu is bloated?
<sebsebseb> (Going back to my comment just now,  I might make basic pictures on the computer sometimes, for fun, and it's not been anything fancy.  Plus they probably won't get saved.)
<bjsnider> no, ubuntu is not bloated
<liquid> cd size limit*
<sebsebseb> bjsnider: Ubuntu 9.04 comes with pretty good defaults
<XiXaQ> I think removing Gimp and f-spot is a good idea.
<sebsebseb> XiXaQ: F-spot is not being removed
<XiXaQ> sebsebseb, it isn't?
<sebsebseb> nope
<sebsebseb> F-Spot is staying
<XiXaQ> when was that decided? :>
<sebsebseb> quite a whiel ago
<XiXaQ> define a while?
<RAOF> One man's "bloat" is another's "competitive feature" :)
<sebsebseb> XiXaQ: I read a few articles about it
<sebsebseb> about a week or two ago or something
<sebsebseb> a few articles or was it just one or two, with quite a lot of peoples coments, hmm
<XiXaQ> so, sometime, somewhere, someone said that f-spot stays?
<sebsebseb> XiXaQ: yep
<XiXaQ> hurray for clear communications.
<RAOF> XiXaQ: No; that _was_ at UDS.  Videos of the "default applications discussion" are available.
<XiXaQ> oh, ok :)
<liquid> shotwell > fspot
<bae> hello can some body talk 2 me?
<RAOF> And has been widely publicised; it has, among other things, hit the front page of arstechnica.
<XiXaQ> RAOF, today, I've read several articles discussing that very subject.
<liquid> bae:hi?
<bae> hi?
<sebsebseb> I think Ubuntu should remove Mono and any apps that depend on it from the default install.  Banshee is a nice player that uses Mono, that's not in the default install anyway.   F-Spot there's that other program uhmm Gphoto or something.  Tomboy there's  Gnote.  Yep Mono stuff not needed.  No I don't hate Mono, but it is linked to Novell and Microsoft.
<RAOF> liquid: Someone said that on the mailing list, so I tried it out; it doesn't work :).  And the other option wasn't even in the archives, so...
<bae> do i no u?????
<bjsnider> oh, no. don't dredge up that old mono argument again
<dtchen> sebsebseb: that is one of the least technically sound reasons to remove Mono.
<bae> hi?
<RAOF> GNOME is also linked to Novell :)
<Ketsuban> I think Ubuntu should remove anything I don't use from the default install. :)
<sebsebseb> dtchen: well remove Mono to save space on the default install :)
<sebsebseb> bjsnider: true, there's a lot of that on the web
<dtchen> sebsebseb: that, also, is one of the least technically sound reasons to remove Mono.
<liquid> bae: probably not
<bae> can some one talk 2 me? not only me???
<RAOF> Ketsuban: I think Ubuntu should remove anything dtchen doesn't use from the default install!  We could have just gnome-terminal & screen! :)
<bae> awl
<XiXaQ> I see no reason to include Mono by default at this time. And far as I'm aware, it's only needed for F-Spot at this time?
<RAOF> XiXaQ: And Tomboy.
<sebsebseb> yep and Tomboy
<XiXaQ> but if the discussion is over and decision is made, then the point is moot.
<liquid> bae: do you have a question?
<bae> whats ur name?
<bjsnider> and banshee
<liquid> fspot alternatives : http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2009/11/gimp-to-be-removed-lucid.html
<XiXaQ> I've never understood why we can't have another alarm clock in the default install because Evolution has the ability to provide it, when we can have tomboy for notes, even though that's a core feature of Ubuntu.
<XiXaQ> err, Evolution.
<liquid> bae: david
<sebsebseb> bjsnider: yep, but that's not in the default install
<bjsnider> it will be
<bae> how old r u?
<sebsebseb> bjsnider: it will be???
<XiXaQ> so, I also think Tomboy should be removed, just to be consistent with the desktop philosophy of Ubuntu.
<bjsnider> it will be the default music player before too much longer
<liquid> bae: do you really need to know that?
<sebsebseb> I went to Banshee when that became better than Rythombox. Banshee used to suck,  now days though Rythombox has improved quite a bit.
<i_is_broke> what will be the default music player?
<bae> im ust askin danm ?
<bjsnider> banshee
<sebsebseb> i_is_broke: Rythombox will be the default for 10.04
<sebsebseb> Ubuntu
<liquid> bae: 20
<sebsebseb> Amarok for Kubuntu
<i_is_broke> bae,this is not a normal chat room
<i_is_broke> ah i see.
<Mrz> nd!
<sebsebseb> Rythombox is fine for now as the default music player in Ubuntu.
<i_is_broke> you know i have never even used it, i use amarok all the time.
<XiXaQ> sebsebseb, I see _no_ reason why we should replace Rhythmbox. Replacing apps should not be an easy decision. Replacing Pidgin with Empathy, for instance, was absolutely _necessary_. Otherwise, I wouldn't have supported it at all.
<Mrz> hey?
<i_is_broke> thats another app, i dont use either.
<IdleOne> Mrz: this chatroom is a tech support room for Ubuntu Alpha if you would like to chat please type /join #ubuntu-offtopic
<sebsebseb> XiXaQ: absolutely necessary,  what why, becasue upstream Gnome made one?  normalley it's good to go with upstreams, but sometimes they mess up for certain users as well,  this wasn't a mess up for me, but I have two examples where I am not that happy with upstream Gnome.   Anyway many of us like Pidgin still.
<XiXaQ> :)
 * XiXaQ takes the not so subtle hint from IdleOne. 
<i_is_broke> if i had to chose over empathy. or any other i would pick most anything over it.
<Mrz> ok!awl
<IdleOne> Mrz: thank you
<XiXaQ> sebsebseb, because we want to have an interpersonally connected desktop. Telepathy provides the underlying mechanism to provide that.
<Mrz> ur w3llcome
<IdleOne> XiXaQ: that was not directed at you btw :)
<sebsebseb> XiXaQ: what does that actsaulley mean, not read Empathy stuff recently, I also haven't tried Empathy last time,  and when I tried it last time it was just for IM.
<Mrz> wats up?
<sebsebseb> XiXaQ: uhmm that was meant to say I haven't tried Empathy recently
<IdleOne> Mrz: how old are you?
<Mrz> 19
<Mrz> y
<bjsnider> an interpersonally connected desktop...
<sebsebseb> bjsnider: that does what
<liquid> Mrz: may i redirect you to http://tinychat.com/
<sebsebseb> ?
<bjsnider> i don't know
<bjsnider> it's not my term
<IdleOne> ok. Olivia, listen this is a technical discussion forum. We are not interested in a/s/l type discussions. You are more then welcome to stay here and join in the conversation but please keep it on topic
<i_is_broke> i still want to know why its so important?
<XiXaQ> sebsebseb, it provides loads of cool stuff, from the simple and useful, like having an indicator in your contact list, showing if the person is available for chat, voice, video, etc, to sharing your desktop over the internet, directly with your contacts without any NAT setup, configuring passwords or anything.
<i_is_broke> i loaded it, used it once and hated it.
<sebsebseb> XiXaQ: ah yes the  desktop sharing thing, but is it done in a secure way, is the thing
<i_is_broke> yeah that kind of spooks me.
<XiXaQ> sebsebseb, yes.
<liquid> well the hope with empathy is that because its default it will get more work done on it as well
<Mrz> ok
<bjsnider> there's a more mature program for that purpose called pidgin
<XiXaQ> sebsebseb, but that's just a simple use case, almost like a demo, of Telepathys possibilities.
<XiXaQ> bjsnider, Pidgin is just a chat application, nothing more. Telepathy is much more.
<sebsebseb> XiXaQ: well yeah, but how many of us actsualley need Empathy/Telepathy ?  or I should say have a good reason to use it
<XiXaQ> sebsebseb, how many of us actually need inet sockets?
<XiXaQ> ... most of us.
<XiXaQ> why shouldn't you be able to connect your applications with a _human_ and not only a _computer_?
<bjsnider> what does telepathy give me that pidgin does not?
<i_is_broke> or couldnt add?
<liquid> voip?
<sebsebseb> would be good if on install of Ubuntu,  a message came up?  explaining   about some of the other popular apps that they might want to install, Pidgin etc?  and then letting them instal lit easilley?  Gimp even, and  Synaptic for those that still want it when 10.04 comes out.  Software Centre will replace Synaptic.
<bjsnider> no, pidgin has that
<XiXaQ> bjsnider, lots. Like Tubes, for instance, enabling you to open "sockets" between applications over an IM channel to your contacts.
<liquid> but telapathy isn't in the default any more soo...
<i_is_broke> ugh, what about kpackagekit?
<bjsnider> XIXin specific terms, what does a socket between applications do?
<XiXaQ> bjsnider, we need Empathy because we need Telepathy, because Telepathy provides lots of stuff that Pidgin won't ever provide. It's far beyond IM.
<i_is_broke> will you be able to install them even tho they are not default?
<bjsnider> XiXaQ,  specific terms, what does a socket between applications do?
<XiXaQ> bjsnider, what do you do with your computer and what do you do with other people? That's what it does.
<liquid> i_is_broke: of course
<sebsebseb> i_is_broke: Synaptic I guess will be in the 10.04 repo, just like I guess Gimp will be.  Well Gimp has to be for sure,  and if it's not, I can imagine the articles/blog entries on the web, and peoples comments regarding, that already.
<bjsnider> those aren't specific ebnough terms, in my view. those are generalities
<XiXaQ> bjsnider, instead of opening a socket to a computer at a given port, you open a connection to another humans application. What you do, is up to you.
<IdleOne> Unless they plan a major upgrade to the Software Center I will continue to favor Synaptic
<bjsnider> that sounds less like a feature than a security hole
<i_is_broke> well that sounds all fine and dandy for tech people but for the average user, i dont want them messing with my stuff...that just means more breakage.
<XiXaQ> bjsnider, is Internet a security hole?
<liquid> IdleOne: what about aptitude?
<IdleOne> liquid: and aptitude of course
<bjsnider> pretty much, yes
<XiXaQ> bjsnider, why do you think it's more dangerous to connect to a port number than a contact name?
<IdleOne> liquid: I was comapring GUI for GUI
<sebsebseb> IdleOne: yeah I have a feeling that when Synaptic gets replaced by Software Centre, that I will still want Synaptic installed
<i_is_broke> i can see someone loging into konsole and doing rm on my root folder.
<XiXaQ> bjsnider, I meant the other way around. :)
<IdleOne> comparing*
<XiXaQ> bjsnider, and why is it more dangerous to transfer voice data to a contact than text data?
<bjsnider> what if eth socket is connecting to an application that's running a thread in kernel space?
<liquid> i_is_broke: no root passsword?
<i_is_broke> well yeah, of course.
<IdleOne> i_is_broke: they will only have the permission you grant them.
<bjsnider> or as root
<i_is_broke> ah ok
<XiXaQ> bjsnider, Telepathy doesn't provide inet sockets. It provides Telepathy Tubes.
<bjsnider> you sound like a commercial for telepathy
<bjsnider> you've got the branding down and everything
<XiXaQ> bjsnider, if you rightclick your contact list (when running as root) and select "Share my desktop", then that's ... well. You've _tried_ to make a hole.
<liquid> it is convient to unify applications
<sebsebseb> IdleOne: add/remove in pre 9.10 is what a  lot of us would tell new users to go into to get some program,  or well use the commands.   Synaptic is good for people with some experience, but also new  new users really.  You agree?
<liquid> sebsebseb: yes, for thouse who need to see Everything
<IdleOne> sebsebseb: Synaptic I think is friendly enough even for new users.
<XiXaQ> bjsnider, I'm very enthusiastic about Ubuntu, yes. I love DBus and I love Telepathy. I think they'll change the way we consider our computers.
<sebsebseb> IdleOne: yep same here
<i_is_broke> ok, back to them using my desktop, if kdewallet is open, would that give them access to roots password?
<IdleOne> Software Center just is not ready, can only install one app at a time
<XiXaQ> IdleOne, that's not true,.
<XiXaQ> IdleOne, you can install several applications at the same time.
<IdleOne> XiXaQ: really? not from what I saw
<i_is_broke> i dont know i have never used it.
<sebsebseb> Software Centre only replaces add/remove now, and yes it looks better,  and I guess when it replaces Synaptic as the default, it will be quite useable and good looking.  Which reminds me,  it's not just right click on a program and install in the software centre in 9.10.
<XiXaQ> IdleOne, try again. You're used to appinstall.
<liquid> Yep, it does i sequntialy and you can stack em
 * IdleOne will try again
<Ketsuban> Telepathy seems to like a case of architecture astronautics to me. If both people have Telepathy then you can share your desktop to them, great - but none of my friends have Telepathy because they don't run Linux. In that respect, I find Pidgin more useful because it's more feature-rich - Empathy by contrast feels extremely barren.
<XiXaQ> Ketsuban, hmm. I thought Pidgin couldn't even do voice and video with Windows users?
<XiXaQ> Empathy does that right out of the box.
<IdleOne> I stand corrected
<liquid> Ketsuban: there's always gchat and such  untill empathy fills the gaps
<IdleOne> but it is not intuitive
<sebsebseb> XiXaQ: If I remember correctly Pidgin can now do web cam with Jabber.
<sebsebseb> Jabber/GoogleTalk
<ba3> hello?
<XiXaQ> IdleOne, I think it is. However, you're used to appinstall, which was different. Don't confuse habit with intuitiveness.
<sebsebseb>   /Gmail
<XiXaQ> sebsebseb, Empathy does the same thing over MSN and SIP as well.
<Ketsuban> XiXaQ: I wasn't talking about Voice/Video (which is in progress for Windows at the moment).
<sebsebseb> XiXaQ: AMSN can do web cams
<Ketsuban> But most of my friends don't use Pidgin either, so that's kinda a moot point. For VoIP we use Skype.
<ba3> bord
<IdleOne> XiXaQ: maybe they should add a tab " To be installed"
<IdleOne> after selecting apps
<sebsebseb> XiXaQ: just like that closed source Mercury Messenger can if I remember correctly,  made by one guy, and written in Java app, Can do most MSN features and it's own stuff, and the program might be a bit buggy.
<IdleOne> How do I remove a package now?
<liquid> sudo apt-get remove (package)
<IdleOne> I know that lol
<IdleOne> I meant in the Soft Center
<liquid> idleone: just find it
<liquid> idleone: and click uninstall
<IdleOne> there is no uninstall option
<liquid> double click
<sebsebseb> IdleOne: exactly, which is  the point I made earlier basically, except for install
<IdleOne> ahh ok I have to go to the Installed Software tab
<sebsebseb> it's not that easy to install a program in int
<liquid> cherry *i hope they notice me changing my name and kick me*
<sebsebseb> you can't just right click on the program and install
<sebsebseb> you have to get the program details showing and the button showing when doing that, or whatever
<liquid> IdleOne: instead of install there will be an unintsall
<IdleOne> liquid: are we talking about the same thing?
<sebsebseb> oh I was going to install a program with software centre, but  used Synaptic instead or just the command.  I wasn't on Karmic for long before getting rid of it, because of a few things that are actsaualley features as well.  Other computer is on 9.04 for now.   I am looking forward to a development version of Lucid that has most/all of the features, so I can try early.
<liquid> IdleOne: software center?
<IdleOne> liquid: yup
<sebsebseb> I have alpha 1 in a virtual machine.
<XiXaQ> I didn't mean to talk negatively about Pidgin. Quite the contrary, I'm active in the Pidgin community and I love the software. It's a great IM application, and that was my point: if we only wanted an IM application, then I would have been in strong opposition to replacing Pidgin. But we don't. We want more. Telepathy provides it, making Empathy the logical choice.
<liquid> uninstall = remove
<IdleOne> double clicking the app takes me to a window with install and website buttons
<sebsebseb> Mandriva One 2010 as host at the moment :)
<sebsebseb> XiXaQ: depends on how it is done, but sometimes negative feedback can be good, and to the actsual developers
<liquid> cherry: please stop
<bjsnider> kick the troll
<XiXaQ> sebsebseb, of course. But Pidgin isn't designed to do what Telepathy is designed to do and it shouldn't aspire to do so either. It's a great IM application and that's what it is.
<sebsebseb> XiXaQ: correction, the geeks and that want all those extra features,  the average Ubuntu user probably doesn't, because they don't know about the features.
<sebsebseb> liquid: What did they do?
<XiXaQ> sebsebseb, I disagree. Especially to the average user, being able to click on a contact and select a choice, is very much what they want to do. They don't want to mess with their router, set up special applications and do networking stuff just in order to communicate with someone.
<liquid> sebsebseb: she keeps changing her nick
<sebsebseb> liquid: I saw one, but then I saw more when I looked above
<sebsebseb> XiXaQ: well sure
<sebsebseb> XiXaQ: well yeah, anyway as I  put before I haven't used Empathy recently, and when I did it was only for IM.
<i_is_broke> i guess thats all i tried to do to was im..so maybe after everything calms down with lucid a bit i will reinstall it and look at it more closely..
<XiXaQ> sebsebseb, wouldn't it be nice to actually surf the net with someone who's far away? Right click the name and select "Share Firefox" and you then if you click somewhere, your contact also opens the same link, so you see the same page. Then, at the same time, over the same connection, you use your microphone and discuss what you're seeing. This is communication!
<liquid> XiXaQ: well dynamic dns dosen't help either, maybe ubuntu could provide dynamic name resolution as a service so people could easily host files?
<babyboop> what r u talkin bout/.
<liquid> dynamic ip i mean*
<XiXaQ> liquid, if you're tring to share files with a spesific user, you should do that by clicking the name of the contact and select the folder to share. Dynamic DNS? Come on :>
<liquid> i'm thinking a little more long term... :p
<XiXaQ> you shouldn't have to know their IP. You already have a connection to them. You should be able to connect to _people_ and not just _computers_. That's what makes Telepathy cool, imho.
<XiXaQ> if I had to know the IP of all the people I talk to in a day, I'd stop talking.
<Ketsuban> If I want them to see what I have in my browser window, I copypaste the link and send it.
<liquid> well of course thats handled by the os/app
<Ketsuban> :P
<XiXaQ> Ketsuban, wow.. That's... Very 80s of you :)
<sebsebseb> XiXaQ: stuff like that can already be done
<liquid> thats one of the reasons you can't directly share you desktop for exp.
<sebsebseb> XiXaQ: well you can already share your desktop over the  Internet with someone I mean
<bjsnider> sounds like a huge pri\vacy violation to me
<XiXaQ> Ketsuban, we used to do that in the mid 80s, actually. We'd dial up to a BBS and browse the content. Then, we'd phone our friends and tell them about it. :>
<XiXaQ> bjsnider, that's a weird thing to say. Why shouldn't I be allowed to show someone what I do?
<bjsnider> why shoud you want to
<liquid> well you can, but you have to use a third party
<XiXaQ> bjsnider, uh.. I have co-workers?
<XiXaQ> liquid, that's ugly. It should be built right in.
<IdleOne> bjsnider: it's not like I can connect to your app without your permission. Telepathy will allow you to share your browser with me and let me control the browser but only with your permission
<liquid> im clients for example are a third party
<liquid> google* aim*
<bjsnider> IdleOne, whatcouldpossiblygowrong
<RAOF> In fact, it's not like I can connect to your app without you *explicitly* sending a "please connect to my app" invitation.
<IdleOne> bjsnider: security has to be built in of course
<XiXaQ> bjsnider, why is automatic sharing of links more dangerous than manually copying and pasting them, or sending them though the snail mail postal service?
<liquid> its not
<IdleOne> you allow cert privs to the user to control the app. root access is NEVER given by defaultr
<XiXaQ> no, it isn't.
<IdleOne> certain*
<bjsnider> famous last words
<XiXaQ> actually, it'd be very difficult for an average user to give root access over Telepathy.
<babyboop> h3ll0?
<liquid> ssh
<babyboop> who?
<IdleOne> haha
<i_is_broke> well it sounds like it would have to be nearly idiot proof...
<XiXaQ> yes. SSH over Telepathy is something I'm looking forward to. People are working on that now.
<liquid> double answer :p
<babyboop> y ssh 4???
<bjsnider> what would happen if you gave control of your browser to someone masquerading as a trusted friend?
<XiXaQ> I have several friends I'd like to help over the internet, but cannot, since it's way too complicated. If they could just right click my name and "Give terminal access", then it'd be easy.
<liquid> your browser dosen't run as root
<IdleOne> babyboop: ssh is a transport protocol. not ssh as in shush
<IdleOne> :)
<bjsnider> IdleOne, don't talk to the troll
<XiXaQ> bjsnider, I don't understand the problem.
<babyboop> r u trying 2 be nice or mean?
<IdleOne> !u
<ubottu> U is the 21st letter of the modern latin alphabet. Neither 'U' or 'Ur' are words in the English language. Nor are 'R', 'Y', 'l8', 'Ne1' or 'Bcuz'. Mangled English is hard for non-native English speakers. Please see http://geekosophical.net/random/abbreviations/ for more information.
<IdleOne> bjsnider: i'm not convinced she is a troll
<bjsnider> she is
<XiXaQ> I'm not convinced the troll is a she.
<liquid> she probably just want to make love with one of us sexy nerds
<babyboop> i no i dont use proper english 4 some reason?
<IdleOne> liquid: yeah, good luck with that lol
<bjsnider> this is not a street corner in thailand
<IdleOne> alright let's keep the comments family friendly please
<XiXaQ> bjsnider, but why would it be more dangerous to send a link over IM to the wrong person than sending it over email?
<IdleOne> troll or not we still act civil
<XiXaQ> good one, IdleOne. :]
<liquid> XiXaQ: well it really depends wich reciving application is more secure
<bjsnider> it would be more dangerous to give control of your browser to a "wrong person" than sending a link
<liquid> XiXaq: Firefox or Empathy, but both run with out root
<babyboop> some body talk 2 me?
<IdleOne> XiXaQ: I assume anytime you would select a contact and share Desktop for example there would be the option to Allow user to Control or View Only
<bjsnider> with control of the browser they could destroy all userland files
<IdleOne> bjsnider: it would be like allowing guest access. they can read files but not modify
<liquid> but the beauty of that is the system is still intact an that other users shouldn't be effected
<IdleOne> the amount of control is left up to you
<DanaG> ssh != shh
<XiXaQ> bjsnider, in any case, I think I would recognize the voice of my girlfriend in anycase. I don't ever want to assume that nothing is possible because everything can be abused.
<DanaG> =Ã¾
<IdleOne> DanaG: indeed it is not :)
<RAOF> bjsnider: That's right, but are you arguing that handing out remote access should be _impossible_?
<bjsnider> IdleOne, i'd like to reiterate whatcouldpossiblygowrong
<babyboop> bord ashell???
<DanaG> I wish Ubuntu had an "install updates and shut down" button.
<RAOF> Because there are some fairly big use-cases for, in fact, handing out remote access.
<babyboop> ord ashell???
<IdleOne> bjsnider: yeah things can be abused, of course.
<babyboop> kljklj
<babyboop> wtf
<i_is_broke> would someone please boot the troll?
<bjsnider> RAOF, i think it should be hard rather than easy
<IdleOne> babyboop: you are acting like a child. please stop
<XiXaQ> bjsnider, then you don't want to have the ability to just show your desktop to someone you know is the right person, because if you instead had given them control over your computer, and if they were someone else, then you might have had problems? You're looking for problems where none exist, my friend. :)
<DanaG> I wish Ubuntu had a way to do the remote-assistance thing to non-Pro Windows.
<RAOF> bjsnider: But that doesn't work when what you want to do is provide remote assistance.
<XiXaQ> DanaG, what does that mean?
<bjsnider> XiXaQ, well that's certainly...your view
<IdleOne> DanaG: that's a windows issue not ubuntu?
<babyboop> that was my son
<IdleOne> babyboop: how old is your son?
<XiXaQ> bjsnider, yes, I still don't understand why you would trust a connection with anything at all, if you didn't trust the connection. And vice versa.
<DanaG> Well, remote-assistance is not the same as remote-desktop (rdp). :(
<bjsnider> RAOF, you're inn tlephone contact with such a person at the time
<RAOF> This was a recurring theme on an ubuntu-devel-discus@ thread about making server administration easier.  "It shouldn't be easy to administer a server, because then people who don't have a deep knowledge of server administration will administer servers & they'll have problems".
<babyboop> 2
<liquid> XiXaQ:https://secure.logmein.com/US/home.aspx
<babyboop> y?
<IdleOne> !y
<ubottu> U is the 21st letter of the modern latin alphabet. Neither 'U' or 'Ur' are words in the English language. Nor are 'R', 'Y', 'l8', 'Ne1' or 'Bcuz'. Mangled English is hard for non-native English speakers. Please see http://geekosophical.net/random/abbreviations/ for more information.
<XiXaQ> liquid?
<liquid> XiXaQ: its a program to allow remote access between computers, met to send it to someone else
<RAOF> bjsnider: So?
<liquid> RAOF: agreed
<bjsnider> RAOF, presumably you trust the person you're conceding desktop control to
<XiXaQ> liquid, yes and extremely complicated in comparison to what Ubuntu has built-in right now.
<RAOF> bjsnider: So, rather than saying "now, open up an IM conversation with me and hit the 'share my desktop' button", you'd prefer that I'd have to explain a bunch of stuff, get the helpee to find their IP address, forward the appropriate ports in their router...
<bjsnider> well, that's two extremnes there
<bjsnider> the former is too easy and the latter is too hard
<RAOF> So, if you trust the person you're conceding desktop control to, why object to the existence of a "concede desktop control to this person" button?
<XiXaQ> bjsnider, too easy?
<RAOF> I disagree with the premise that an action can be too easy.
<XiXaQ> I do too.
<IdleOne> that button will also come with a popup explaining the possible risk of doing so
<XiXaQ> easy does not mean insecure.
<babyboop> ldleOne y did u ask how old my son iz?
<IdleOne> babypoop, was curious
<IdleOne> babyboop*
<XiXaQ> hehehe
<IdleOne> :)
<XiXaQ> IdleOne, is that what they call a freudian mistype? :>
<bjsnider> RAOF, an action can't be too easy?
<IdleOne> XiXaQ: yup, something like that
<RAOF> bjsnider: An action that you want to perform can't be too easy.
<RAOF> bjsnider: A computer is a tool for doing stuff.  If what I want to do is X, I want the computer to make X _as easy as possible_.
<liquid> RAOF: but in the end the user is in control
<bjsnider> then why are there spambots out there with 250k or more zombie computers driving them having been infected by users doing easy things?
<XiXaQ> it can be too easy if you can do it without meaning to do it, like tapping the touchpad results in a click.
<IdleOne> bjsnider: because windows user tend to not be careful about who they allow access
<liquid> bjsinder: they are tools to hid the cheaters
<RAOF> Because it's _hard_ to distinguish between safe and unsafe things.
<IdleOne> We need to get out of the mind set that Linux should be hard.
<XiXaQ> bjsnider, because Windows up till very recently gave the first user administrator right by default, without guarding it in any way and without explaining the danger to the user.
<bjsnider> i don't want usability to get so easy you can blow up the world by hitting a red button by accident
<IdleOne> Linux should be easy to use and safe. other OS'es have made things easy by sacrificing security
<liquid> It should be simple of course, but a thurow warning should be delt, and it shouldn't effect other users
<bjsnider> i want there to be several difficult steps to take
<RAOF> Why?
<XiXaQ> bjsnider, you can't do that in Ubuntu. That's what the sudo mechanism is for.
<XiXaQ> bjsnider, oh, ok. You want to reboot in order to gain root privileges, for instance, just to make it difficult?
<RAOF> So, there seems to be two things here: "I want possibly insecure things to be difficult to do" and "I want it to be difficult to _accidentally_ do insecure things"
<RAOF> I disagree with the first, and agree with the second.
<XiXaQ> again, I second that.
<bjsnider> RAOF, which one has resulted in those spambots?
<RAOF> A combination of both.
<i_is_broke> well i think for people who help people with their computers its a great idea.as far as the ones that will abuse it. well we know what and how they do things..
<XiXaQ> bjsnider, no. Noone has ever proposed that Ubuntu should remove the sudo mechanism and run all applications as root, like Windows has done for the past decade.
<bjsnider> vista removed that feature
<bjsnider> or maybe i shouldn't call it a feature
<XiXaQ> bjsnider, yes, and what's the percentage of spambots OS?
<bjsnider> overwhelming percentage is xp systems
<liquid> bjsnider: still, in windows, the user is not informed of what could go wrong
<XiXaQ> bjsnider, right, so your point it moot.
<RAOF> Actually, let me retract that.  I don't think the spambots are the result of _either_ possibly insecure things being easy to do _nor_ for it being easy to accidentally do insecure things.
<bjsnider> most people still use xp
<XiXaQ> but this has nothing to do with being able to share a link over IM.
<RAOF> Malware, by and large, works by making the user _want_ to run whatever it is that the malware is.
<bjsnider> it's social engineering attacks, yes
<liquid> XiXaQ: for most cases it is safe to assume that sending a link is safe... clicking it is different, we are more discussing allowing someone else enviromental control of the os or root access
<bjsnider> but if it was harder to do what the malware wants to user to do, then it would be less of a problem
<RAOF> But the malware wants the user to run a program downloaded from the internet.
<XiXaQ> liquid, no, actually. We were talking about sharing a display with a friend over an IM connection.
<RAOF> You have to admit, this is actually something that many people legitimately want to do :)
<liquid> yah "enviromental control"
<XiXaQ> liquid, it's just bjsnider who are intent on making it a very dangerous security issue. It's not.
<bjsnider> it's not a security issue to give control of your desktop to someone else in a remote location???
<IdleOne> RAOF: I know that I would like to spend an hour or two watching what my son is looking at on the web, with his knowledge. it would be a nice way for me to spend some time with him being I am 700 miles away
<XiXaQ> bjsnider, desktop? I never talked about a desktop or giving anyone control over my desktop.
<liquid> yah i guess its not that big a deal, it really is you to blame.. assuming all this can be done with out root
<RAOF> Not if that's _what you explicitly want to do_.
<sebsebseb> bjsnider: the connection itself should be made to be secure, VNC over SSH for example
<XiXaQ> bjsnider, but now that you mention it.. No, it's not.
<bjsnider> RAOF, the user doesn't know what they want to do
<XiXaQ> bjsnider, oh, so everyone is stupid?
<RAOF> bjsnider: They've clicked a button which says "Share my desktop with this user".
<XiXaQ> this is tiresome.
<liquid> if root is required the only the real user should be allowed to grand such, otherwize share away.
<XiXaQ> People should be able to connect to other people. The question is not if, the question is how. I believe Telepathy to be the best answer at this time.
<XiXaQ> and that concludes my part of this discussion, I think :)
<IdleOne> +1 XiXaQ
<RAOF> bjsnider: If the user doesn't understand the implications of this, the solution isn't "Make it harder to share my desktop" because people will just follow longer, more convoluted, _less secure_ HOWTOs.  The solution is to make it obvious that the remote end will be able to control your desktop.
<bjsnider> liquid, that is not how it works in vista. desktop sharing must be run as root
<IdleOne> bjsnider: this is not Vista!
<IdleOne> F Vista and how they do it
<i_is_broke> oops nice language..lol
<IdleOne> We can do it properly
<IdleOne> sorry
<i_is_broke> its ok..im old enough to hear it..lol
<IdleOne> but comparing apples and oranges to make a point is ridiculous
<bjsnider> RAOF, my theory is that they'll give up after a short time
<i_is_broke> yes i agree.
<liquid> btw is this really lucid +1 discussion :p
<i_is_broke> not me, i didnt know the first thing about ssh, but i started reading about it, and learning and i can actually do it now..not to sure what i can do but i can do it.
<RAOF> bjsnider: So, your solution is to make it impossible for users to recieve remote assistance?
<IdleOne> liquid: we are discussing possible implementations of telepathy in +1 :)
<liquid> IdleOne: oh
<bjsnider> RAOF, somewhere between too easy and too hard
<IdleOne> liquid: that is my story lol
<RAOF> I still dispute the existence of "too easy" :)
<DanaG> hmm, the way windows does remote-assistance is through "help and support" center.
<DanaG> it lets you e-mail or IM an "invitation"
<liquid> IdleOne: well if it really is a possibility of including it (assuming its fairly small package?) it should be added/ merged into empathy in someway
<XiXaQ> bjsnider, why do you want it to be difficult instead of just making it secure?
<DanaG> It's not directly through the IM app.
<i_is_broke> well i work with a bunch of people on the g/f side of the family that dont know much about computers, i can see it being an  advantage for me in that aspect...
<IdleOne> liquid: indeed and as XiXaQ mentioned there are people working on such things
<bjsnider> XiXaQ, it cannot be secure
<RAOF> IdleOne: Check out empathy right now.  It's implemented.
<XiXaQ> bjsnider, please prove that.
<RAOF> IdleOne: Open a conversation -> Contact -> "Share My Desktop".
<IdleOne> RAOF: I haven't played with Empathy as I don't have any friends :(
<RAOF> :)
<IdleOne> will you be my friend?
<IdleOne> hehe
<XiXaQ> IdleOne, aww! You have one! :)
<RAOF> bjsnider: Remote access *cannot* be secure?
<bjsnider> no.
<DanaG> I don't like the idea of it being chat app -> remote access.  Perhaps make it chat app -> tell person to go to 'help and support' -> send invitation.
<i_is_broke> bjsnider, why?
<RAOF> Well, I guess I can accept that.  A network-connected computer is not secure.
<i_is_broke> and im not trying to be a smart elic, i just am curious to why you said that?
<bjsnider> giving control of your system to someone else is never secure
<RAOF> I don't think that's a useful level of security to aim for, because I'd like to actually use my computer.
<DanaG>  <"your mom" joke>
<IdleOne> easy does not mean insecure. it can be rock solid and easy at the same time. the regular end user does not want to learn about port forwarding and ssh and vnc. they want to be able to click and do stuff fast. The devs need to make sure that it is secure.
<IdleOne> and lucky for us it is all FOSS so people can make sure it is secure
<XiXaQ> bjsnider, it's not useful to be so extreme. I'm very glad Google gives me access to their computer, for instance, and I don't think they fear me very much.
<liquid> The user should be aware that it is more then just chat, thus I would reccomend it in the administration, however.. maybe a link to it from empathy?
<RAOF> bjsnider: I don't think that a definition of "security" which makes it impossible for work to be done is a useful definition.
<bjsnider> it's impossible to do work without giving up direct control of your system?
<bjsnider> i don't see why
<RAOF> Because the work that I want to do involves giving remote access to a known agent.
<RAOF> There are all sorts of interesting security things to talk about here, though.  How do I know that the person I'm talking to is _actually_ the person I'm thinking of?  Can 3rd parties see this conversation?  Can 3rd parties influence this conversation, etc.
<bjsnider> i'm fairly certain that you could implement complex procedures to accomplish that task
<RAOF> Right.  I _could_ fly out to Whoopwhooop.
<IdleOne> and get some WhatWhat
<XiXaQ> bjsnider, ssh username@address <-- it's very easy, isn't it? Do you propose that we make it more difficult?
<RAOF> Security is a spectrum.  A network-connected computer is not secure.  A computer to which others have physical access is not secure.
<RAOF> That doesn't mean that I don't want my laptop to connect to the Internet.
<bjsnider> XiXaQ, ssh is hard enough to scare off people who shouldn't be using it
<i_is_broke> if you want your computer to be secure, dont hook it to the net.
<RAOF> bjsnider: There is no "shouldn't be using it".
<RAOF> "It should be difficult, otherwise the plebs might be able to use it inappropriately" is not security.
<bjsnider> hahaa, well, we've got a difference of opinion on that, no question.
<RAOF> The computer should _never_ prevent me from doing something that I deliberately want to do.
<XiXaQ> bjsnider, well. We disagree. I think it should be easy to talk to other people, even if not all words should be spoken.
<RAOF> I want to share my desktop with one of my contacts; making this hard to do does _not_ make it more secure, just more frustrating.
<bjsnider> computers are too easy for the uninitiated to use
<RAOF> While being too _difficult_ to use safely, yes.
<i_is_broke> now will this telepathy let you connect to anyones desktop or does it have to be someone else running linux?can it be done with osx,or windows?
<RAOF> i_is_broke: It'll only work between telepathy clients, IIUC.  The underlying technology is VNC, though, for which windows & OSX clients exist.
<XiXaQ> bjsnider, then, it sounds to me, you believe in security by obscurity?
<i_is_broke> ok, so i would have to install all of that on a windows box to connect to it in the first place..gotchya...
<IdleOne> let's say I don't have a webcam but the person I am talking does. They could turn on the cam and a window opens with them in it, they then share the desktop with me and I can look at them threw their desktop?
<bjsnider> i think osx and gnome have good design philosophies where they hide dangerous or obscure features and keep the simple stuff out in the open
<XiXaQ> i_is_broke, telepathy enables you to make a channel (Tube) to a contact. These tubes can be used for anything a normal inet socket can be used for, but you don't have to consider DNS or routing at all.
<i_is_broke> i get it.
<bjsnider> so if you really want to set up desktop sharing, you an't just click a button. you have to learn about it and educate yourself so you can use it with some degree of safety
<i_is_broke> well considering i take care of my whole family's computers, it would be something i would want to learn.
<RAOF> bjsnider: The problem with "educate yourself" is that people end up following the first howto on google.  They're not _interested_ in how to use it with safety, they just want to use their computer as a tool.
<RAOF> And howtos on google end up old, obsolete, are of variable quality, people don't necessarily read the caveats, people don't necessarily *understand* the commands, etc.
<RAOF> In short, if you're relying on random howtos on the net in order to provide security, you've lost.
<liquid> RAOF: but its the thought that counts
<sebsebseb> ok just caught up, since I went away when the discussion was still on
<sebsebseb> who is still here?
<sebsebseb> got a few questions myself for the topic
<sebsebseb> RAOF: IdleOne  bjsnider  XiXaQ
<sebsebseb> still about?
<RAOF> sebsebseb: Ask the question; that's the way it works :)
<sebsebseb> Using this stuff to remote connect with people you know right,  but it could also be done with strangers from the Internet.  Which could be rather useful to help them with something.  However who is being remote connected to?  What computer is being remote connected to?  Is it ok to remote connect to people from the net that you don't know, as long as you don't do anything bad when in?  etc
<RAOF> sebsebseb: If someone invites you, then yes, certainly.  Why wouldn't it be OK?
<RAOF> sebsebseb: The person who sends the "please connect remotely to my machine" is the person whose computer is remotely connected to.
<sebsebseb> yes
<sebsebseb> ,but does age matter for example?
<RAOF> As in: should you only attempt to help someone in that way if you know they're over the age of consent?
<RAOF> I don't think that's a very helpful question, because it's not something that I can know.
<sebsebseb> RAOF: well there are ages for loads of stuff,  for example to register on Freenode your meant to be 13 years or over
<RAOF> Right, but that's obviously unenforced.
<RAOF> That's there for legal reasons, I'm sure.
<RAOF> If you're suggesting that there should be parental controls available for desktop sharing, then that seems reasonable.
<sebsebseb> RAOF: exactly legal stuff,  and I guess there is that when it comes to remote connecting as well,  but if there is that,  I don't know what it is exactly.  I do  assume though that people can maybe get in trouble if doing something bad, when remote connected to someones computer
<RAOF> Possibly?  That's going to be juristiction-dependent, and I don't think it's a particularly interesting question.
<RAOF> Yes, you can do illegal stuff if someone invites you into their house.
<KB1JWQ> Not always.
 * KB1JWQ consults handy reference lawyer
<sebsebseb> As for young children having Internet access at home,  I guess that really the parents or parental guardian should be responsible for them being safe online at home.
<RAOF> Right.  Having remote access to their system is not particularly more dangerous than talking to them online :)
<sebsebseb> and if anything bad happens as a result of the child having Internet access,  the parant or parental guardian is to blame.
<RAOF> KB1JWQ: I'd be surprised if you can find a juristiction in which being invited into someone's house gives you the legal right to burn it down :)
<sebsebseb> It's the Internet, differnet counteries have different laws, and you can also remote connect people that are in a differnet countrey.
<sebsebseb> RAOF: bingo
<sebsebseb> just like with remote connecting,  it's ok really,  as long as you don't do anything bad/malicious when in?
<RAOF> Morally?  Yes, that's how I'd treat it.
<sebsebseb> ,but legally would depend on countrey and so on?
<sebsebseb> this kind of stuff is getting a bit more public I think actsauly,  not that long ago I saw an advert on the TV for something that was commercial and paid for, so  people for example could remote connect to their home, from work
<sebsebseb> plus operating systems having some kind of remote connect software with them
<sebsebseb> a lot of people will still be afraid to give people they don't know access to their computer though, but as was already discussed, remote connecting can be rather useful at times
<sebsebseb> afraid since all that hacker stuff in the media,  really it's called cracker, but the media use the wrong term
<sebsebseb> RAOF:  KB1JWQ Any comments?
<KB1JWQ> sebsebseb: Usually I tend to keep my commentary to myself. :-)
<sebsebseb> RAOF: My bingo comment earlier was  a response to your comment to KB1JWQ  regarding house being burnt down,  just wanted to be clear
<sebsebseb> comment/message
<sebsebseb> RAOF:  Going back to your comment earlier, parental controls for remote connecting could be rather useful in the future, but right now most computer users don't even know about remote connecting.
<XiXaQ> sebsebseb, yes, that's one good thing about sharing desktop using Telepathy. You don't open a general port. You allow for one single connection. When it's broken, you have to reopen the connection. The normal way you do it, is to enable remote desktop and then set a password. If you forget to deactivate it, then it stays available.
<XiXaQ> ... I should have been asleep many, many hours ago :|
<sebsebseb> XiXaQ: same here in a way
<sebsebseb> XiXaQ: that sounds like the insecure way,  not VNC over SSH
<sebsebseb> where something might get left open
<sebsebseb> with SSH first a SSH account needs to be connected to. then VNC can be tunneled
<DanaG> ugh, my screen keeps randomly blinking.
<BUGabundo_work> morning
<BUGabundo_work> Shuttleworth steps down as Ubuntu CEO
<BUGabundo_work> so why didnt any one told me yet ?
<BUGabundo_work> heeh
<AlanBell> morning
<ikonia> hello AlanBell
<ikonia> BUGabundo_work:where is your source for that information
<BUGabundo_work> ikonia: sec
<BUGabundo_work> ikonia: http://blogs.computerworld.com/15275/shuttleworth_steps_down_as_ubuntu_ceo
<ikonia> ah, thats the one I'm reading also, maybe a good topic for #ubuntu-offtopic
<AlanBell> http://markshuttleworth.com is the best source
<AlanBell> and also read the interview in the first link of Mark's post
<ikonia> looks a good topic for #ubuntu-offtopic rather than here
<AlanBell> agreed
<knittl> hi
<knittl> i upgraded to lucid a few days ago â¦ and i still have no sound
<knittl> known problem?
<Ian_Corne> are you sure you driver is loaded?
<Ian_Corne> i saw some1 saying a day ago or so that the driver simply wasn't loaded
<knittl> Ian_Corne: i don't know. but checking now
<knittl> i can see the volume in pavucontrol
<knittl> oh â¦ speaker volume was 0
<knittl> there's no way to set it with the new volume control =/
<soee> hi
<BUGabundo_work> knittl: yes, i have the same problem, sound is always MUTEd on boot
<knittl> BUGabundo_work: always?
<knittl> sucks :D
<knittl> but i found the reason, so it's not a big a deal
<BUGabundo_work> knittl: *always*
<BUGabundo_work> i just increase it , when i need it
<knittl> ok
<knittl> will lucid include the 2.6.33 kernel on final release?
<knittl> or will they stay with 2.6.32
<BUGabundo_work> prob 33
<BUGabundo_work> ask on #ubuntu-kernel
<knittl> not that important
<knittl> where can i get working nvidia drivers for lucid?
<kavurt> has anybody installed kubuntu? install icon doesn't work here
<bjsnider> knittl, try the nvidia-vdpau ppa
<bjsnider> the 195 driver specifically
<knittl> bjsnider: ok, i'm adding it right now
<knittl> 195 you say? great :>
<knittl> :( it wants to remove ubuntu-desktop and xserver-xorg*
<bjsnider> does it really?
<BUGabundo_work> DONT
<knittl> BUGabundo_work: don't worry, i won't ;)
<bjsnider> i just copied the binaries from the karmic build. let me build it against the lucid packages
<knittl> although ubuntu-desktop is just a virtual package as i understood
<bjsnider> it's attached to the xserver-xorg stuff, so that's why
<BUGabundo_work> knittl: yes
<BUGabundo_work> but along devel cycle, not having it will lead to a very confusing system
<knittl> jup, ok
<bjsnider> knittl, amd64 or i386?
<knittl> i386
<bjsnider> ???
<knittl> hu?
<bjsnider> nobody's on i386 anymore
<bjsnider> it's an outrage
<knittl> i have an core 2 duo, but use a 32 bit operating system
<knittl> i figured this counst as i386
<bjsnider> if i was linus, i'd be cursing you out for being a luddite
<knittl> are you linus? :P
<knittl> tell me about direct advantages of amd64 over i386
<knittl> i never really informed myself on the topic
<bjsnider> i'm not linus, no
<bjsnider> but whent he graphics guys tried importing gem into the kernel, he chewed them out for not using amd64
<bjsnider> build successful. packages being published now
<knittl> cool :)
<bjsnider> finished
<bjsnider> refresh your sources and try again
<bjsnider> the packages are so new they have steam coming off them
<knittl> awesome :)
<knittl> ok, looks great
<bjsnider> kind if curious to see if this works. the 195 driver is almost twice the size of the previous ones for reasons unknown
<bjsnider> my theory is the new one contains secret state dept. records or something
<knittl> i'll reboot and then i can tell you
<knittl> brb
<knittl> no wait â¦
<knittl> http://paste2.org/p/567789
<bjsnider> run the command dkms status
<knittl> nothing happens
<knittl> exit code 0
<bjsnider> dkms status results in exit code 0?
<knittl> yes
<knittl> $ dkms stats; echo $?
<knittl> 0
<bjsnider> just type dkms status, without anything else
<knittl> i did
<knittl> no output whatsoever
<bjsnider> knittl, ok, there was a slight issue with a script in here. hold on a few minutes
<knittl> no problem
<bjsnider> updating to a new driver line, from say 190 to 195 requires that every reference to "190" in the 46 or so files in the debian directory be replaced with the new number, which in this case is 195. sometimes there are oversights
<knittl> find -print0 | xargs -0 sed -i 's/190/195'
<knittl> ;)
<bjsnider> not that simple though
<bjsnider> the control file requires some to be changed and others not
<bjsnider> and then in some cases the full numbers are used, like 195.22 for instance
<bjsnider> it's a total mess
<knittl> sounds like
<bjsnider> alright, this is going to take a half hour, possibly more. the builds have been queued
<knittl> no problem, i can wait
<knittl> thanks for your help
<bjsnider> knittl, give it another try
 * BUGabundo_work pins mac_v to the #
<mac_v> BUGabundo_work: hey ;)  what did i do :P
<mac_v> was just testing a gnome-session bug , wm just wont start on their own :/
<knittl> bjsnider: ok
<knittl> ok, it went through without error messages
 * knittl rebooting
<knittl> complains about no valid video driver/configuration or something along those lines
<knittl> if i choose to start in low graphics mode i have the vesa driver again (with full resolution though)
<falktx> hi, I have a question
<falktx> i'm using lucid
<falktx> but i'm having real trouble using copy-paste
<falktx> everytime I select an area,
<falktx> that area becames "auto-copied"
<falktx> so I have to delete all the sentence in order to replace it
<falktx> is that a known bug, or it just happens with me?
<BUGabundo_work> falktx: what??
<BUGabundo_work> everytime u select anything its copied to memory
<BUGabundo_work> thats a X and WM feature
<BUGabundo_work> been like that for years
<falktx> let me explain better
<falktx> I type something
<falktx> I select all I've typed
<falktx> than cut
<falktx> I write some other things
<falktx> and select them all
<falktx> when I ctrl+V
<falktx> instead of the old copied text pasted,
<falktx> the text remains the same
<falktx> if I delete the text and ctrl+V
<falktx> the second text I typed (but not copied), will be "pasted"
<yofel> falktx: kde?
<falktx> yes
<falktx> i guess you know about it
<yofel> falktx: open the klipper configuration and enable 'Ignore Selection'
<falktx> oh..
<falktx> why was it like that?
<falktx> (many thanks! that worked!!)
<yofel> no idea, I was really confused at first too...
<falktx> has kde been informed already?
<yofel> falktx: seems like that was a kde decision
<falktx> i don't like it... and I think most user will just "WTF"
<yofel> falktx: +1, talked to the folks in kubuntu-devel, they don't really like it either
<knittl> hm strange. i'm getting a segmentation fault after choosing the kernel in grub
<knittl> plus X won't start anymore -.-
<falktx> not with me
<falktx> I just booted 1 hour ago
<falktx> 2.6.32-8?
<knittl> jep
<knittl> falktx: but i tried to install a new version of nvidia driver
<knittl> i'm in a root shell right now
<falktx> what's the output of "uname -m"?
<falktx> "uname -a", instead
<BluesKaj> Hiyas
<knittl> linux $name 2.6.33-8 .... .. i686
<knittl> but i'll try another reboot
<knittl> screen isn't working either so i'm restricted to a single shell, which sucks ...
<yofel> knittl: it you want to temporary use nv instead of nvidia, rename xorg.conf into something else
<falktx> select the option "recovery mode"
<knittl> yofel: i don't have an xorg.conf at the moment
<knittl> falktx: that's what i'm in right now
<knittl> i also removed nvidia-glx-stuff
<knittl> i'll try rebooting again, brb
<knittl> hm, x still won't start
<knittl> starting in console it says it can't load glx module
<knittl> sucks balls
<knittl> should i reinstall nvidia-glx-195? *g*
<knittl> and yofel, i thought the new kernel will use nouveau? or was that the next one to be released? (2.6.33)
<yofel> oh yeah, now that you mention it... not sure then if the default is right now, it should be nouveau for release
<yofel> s/if/what
<yofel> check in your /var/log/Xorg.0.log what goes wrong and which driver you're using
<knittl> failed to load module glx (module does not exist, 0)
<knittl> there are lines of an built-in configuration
<knittl> with nv, vesa, fbdev
<falktx> I can guess you're missing some packages
<falktx> the one containing the driver X is trying to load
<knittl> do you know which one those are?
<falktx> you have to check X
<falktx> run:
<falktx> X &
<falktx> then change to tty1 (ctrl+alt+F1)
<falktx> it should tell what driver is missing
<knittl> i can't find a driver name
<knittl> only a backtrace
<falktx> what about:
<falktx> cat /var/log/Xorg.0.log
<knittl> ok, seems to be NV
<knittl> no
<falktx> hm?
<knittl> there's just a whole bunch of information
<falktx> try:
<knittl> and anywhere i find references to drivers i find nv, vesa und fbdev
<falktx> sudo apt-get install xserver-xorg-video-all
<falktx> try the command then reboot
<knittl> ok
<knittl> no new packages to install
<falktx> i guess you have to install nvidia-glx-*
<falktx> but go for a stable version
<falktx> (I don't use nvidia, so i'm not sure what version you need)
<knittl> 195 should be the right one for lucid
<knittl> and i'm still having segfaults right after grub
<knittl> although the systems boots after a few seconds waiting
<falktx> are you sure the segfaults are related to nv driver?
<knittl> no
<knittl> but i thought i'll mention them
<knittl> and i know nv isn't working with current X version
<knittl> it's in the list of known issues on ubuntu.com/testing
<falktx> you can force the driver to vesa
<falktx> 1024x768
<falktx> if you don't mind until it gets fixed
<knittl> before i had full resolution
<knittl> must've been vesa
<knittl> but with 1920x1200
<falktx> you know how to do it?
<BluesKaj> knittl, which nvidia card ?
<BluesKaj> knittl, to find out ,in the terminal : lspci | grep VGA
<knittl> BluesKaj: quadro fx 360M
<knittl> falktx: i guess writing a custom xorg.conf
<falktx> yes
<falktx> you need help?
<knittl> i can look it up with elinks ;)
<BluesKaj> knittl, the nvidia-glx-190 is the driver you need
<knittl> BluesKaj: oh?
<BluesKaj> if you have an installed nvidia driver you have to remove while X is shut down
<knittl> x won't start anyway ;)
<BluesKaj> I assume you are running 32 bit , knittl
<knittl> BluesKaj: yes, that is correct
<BluesKaj> knittl, I used this procedure with success , http://www.pastebin.ca/1719599 .Give it a try , it worked on my 7600GT
<knittl> copy paste using a sheet of paper *g*
<yofel> falktx: if you're interested about the klipper selection, there was a pretty interesting discussion on kubuntu-devel right now: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2009/12/18/%23kubuntu-devel.html#t15:41
<knittl> or my brain ... that works too :)
<knittl> oh, 24 packages broken in aptitude ... meeen
<BluesKaj> ok time for my walk , bbl
<falktx> yofel: thanks, I hope they disabled it in time for karmic
<yofel> well, the kde4.4 backports are the same as lucid right now
<yofel> and kde4.3 had a different behaviour iirc
<knittl> there is no nvidia 190 driver in my repositories
<falktx> seems like it hasn't been pushed to Lucid yet
<falktx> but there's nvidia-glx-185
<knittl> yay, looks good :)
<knittl> using 195 now
<BluesKaj> knittl, there's a ppa here , sorry shudda posted it earlier https://edge.launchpad.net/~sevenmachines/+archive/nvidia
<BluesKaj> knittl, bookmark it, just in case :)
<BluesKaj> knittl, but I'm glad to hear the 195 worked out
<knittl> BluesKaj: i'm using the nvidia-vdpau ppa right now
<knittl> but i'll bookmark it anyway
<marco>  what's beyond light-speed bothing of 10.04 ?
<falktx> i saw a lot of changes in the udev rules
<falktx> and initramfs
<falktx> no device is scanning unless is really necessary
<falktx> that might get the system to boot a little faster
<falktx> need help
<falktx> (maybe an ubuntu bug?)
<falktx> I submited a package to revu, but it can't be displayed
<falktx> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/lv2-c++-tools
<falktx> because it has "++" in the name
<seren__> you can try with the htmlentities for + instead
<falktx> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/lv2-c%2B%2B-tools
<falktx> still doesn't work
<seren__> (I don't know it offhand)
<falktx> it's ok
<falktx> but we'll be a problem if someone wants to look at it
<falktx> (for reviewing)
<falktx> should I open a new bug for this, or what?
<seren__> I vote fill a bug
<Pici> falktx: File a bug here: https://edge.launchpad.net/revu  and/or bug the people in #ubuntu-motu, since this really isn't an issue for #ubuntu+1
<falktx> just added the bug report
<bjsnider> knittl, did the updated 195 blob work for you?
<knittl> bjsnider: after a lot of struggle, yes
<bjsnider> struggle?
<knittl> but i guess it was not the 195 at fault, my whole xorg must've been messed up
<knittl> i also got segmentation faults right after grub
<bjsnider> did it go into dkms and build without errors this time?
<knittl> yup, no errors for me
<bjsnider> i see
<knittl> thanks a lot for updating the driver(s)
<bjsnider> i'm just glad to have a guinea pig to test them out on
<knittl> :D
<mac_v> anyone know how i can transfer chrome's user data to a new install?
<hrocha> good evening
<joaopinto> hi
<hrocha> just wanted to install lucid on my laptop
<Seven_Six_Two> can I expect greatly differing results between running 10.04 native and in a vm?
<hrocha> but it doesn't install
<hrocha> i step through all the 8 steps of the pre-installation and then it does nothing
<hrocha> i'm running the live version of lucid at the moment
<hrocha> maybe because i'm running the installation process with the pt_PT locale?
<Seven_Six_Two> hrocha, I don't know what you should do, but your issue makes me think I should try updating my 9.10 vm install first.
<hrocha> Seven_Six_Two, yes, try on a vm first
<hrocha> Seven_Six_Two, empathy in lucid doesn't even show IRC in the protocol list
<hrocha> i had to install xchat
<hrocha> i'll try to reboot and try installing in english
<hrocha> brb
<Seven_Six_Two> hrocha, that's what I use anyhow (xchat) and I figured a vm would be the safest route. I'm not experienced with using virtual machines though, so I wasn't sure if there are problems that I'll have with a vm that I wouldn't experiance natively
 * swoody thinks Empathy is horrible for IRC anyways :)
<hrocha> swoody, i agree
<swoody> it's like trying to clear snow off your driveway... you *can* do it, but you're not going to enjoy it :/
<swoody> with a broom*
<swoody> wow... major PEBCAK
<Seven_Six_Two> I don't know why empathy is even there by default. I much prefer pidgin for im and xchat for, well... irc
<swoody> Seven_Six_Two: a big +1
<swoody> and Empathy really didn't seem to be ready for the spotlight when it was included with Karmic
<swoody> was pretty glitchy for a lot of users from what I hear
<hrocha> it doesn't install :(
<hrocha> back to 9.10
<swoody> hrocha: what are you having trouble installing?
<hrocha> i downloaded lucid and used the usb-creator to be able to boot from my usb drive because my dvd drive died
<hrocha> i'm just trying to install lucid on my laptop
<hrocha> but the installation process doesn't work
<swoody> hrocha: and you can boot into the liveCD fine?
<hrocha> yes
<hrocha> it should't boot the livecd but it does
<swoody> hrocha: any kind of error messages?
<hrocha> i didn't choose "try ubuntu", i chose "install ubuntu"
<guntbert> hrocha: its alpha - why don't you try in a VM first?
<swoody> hrocha: what happens when you select 'try Ubuntu'?
<hrocha> it starts the installation process and after the 8 steps it fails and starts the live session
<sebsebseb> hi
<hrocha> if i install lucid inside the live session it doesn't work either
<swoody> hrocha: no error messages when it fails?
<swoody> it just quits?
<hrocha> none that i can see
<hrocha> yes, it just quits
<swoody> hrocha: have you tried checking the LiveCD integreity?
<hrocha> i tried a vm but virtualbox says that lucid is for x86-64 and the processor is a i686 (i assume this is a bug from vbox)
<hrocha> swoody, no, i didn't, i assumed the copy to the usb drive was done correctly
<swoody> hrocha: that would be my first thing to do, just to make sure
<hrocha> swoody, i'll try to check that, let me reboot
<swoody> hrocha: did you also check the md5sum after downloading the .iso?
<hrocha> swoody, also not, i'll do that now before rebooting
<swoody> hrocha: :)
<hrocha> iso is fine =)
<hrocha> brb
<swoody> good, good
<hrocha> swoody, everything is fine
<hrocha> i can't boot the iso on virtualbox so i guess i'll wait for the alpha2
<ripps> is xorg.conf.d working yet? and will I be able to port my custom wacom fdi to it?
<swoody> hrocha: hmmm... it may just be a glicthy Alpha :/
<joaopinto> hrocha, if it says lucid is for x86-64 that means you have downloaded the 64 bits iso
<swoody> hrocha: but that stinks
<swoody> hrocha: you could always install Karmic, and then do update-manager -d to get Lucid on your laptop
<hrocha> joaopinto, yes, i'm using a 64 bits iso
<hrocha> i'm also using 9.10 64bits
<crimsun> all the alphas should be treated as "glitchy"
<hrocha> crimsun, glitchy yes, but not even installing? :D
<crimsun> hrocha: sure, brokenness is expected.
<crimsun> I'm *not* saying that isn't a bug.
<hrocha> joaopinto, vbox is saying this iso is for x86-64 and the processor is an i686
<hrocha> i'll download a new vbox
<DanaG> Also make sure your CPU has VT enabled.
<hrocha> VT?
<RAOF> The (intel) x86 virtualisation extensions.
<DanaG> Or AMD-V if it's AMD.
<hrocha> swoody, hey! my problem was already reported
<hrocha> swoody https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/494608
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 494608 in ubiquity "ubiquity crashed with TypeError in partman_edit_dialog()" [High,Fix released]
<mich> hello! can anyone help me with nvidia upgrade from karmic problme?
<mich> after upgrade I removed all my xorg and installed nvidia-glx-185
<hrocha> swoody i can't do manual partitioning
<mich> now I can't boot to gdm... and I can't reinstall xorg
<crimsun> mich: the new ABI of the X server is incompatible with Lucid's existing NVidia driver and GLX
<mich> so what can I do?
<crimsun> mich: you have a few options: use nv, use nouveau, use the xorg-edgers PPA for 190.42 debs
<mich> ok, but i have a tiny problem... I am unable to remove nvidia-glx-185 package
<mich> something with usr/lib/xorg/modules/extensions/libGLcore.so not found
<crimsun> that should be diverted by nvidia-glx-185
<mich> oik I was able to remove that package... how is called that nv driver?
<mich> nvidia-nv?
<yofel> mich: nv should be installed by default, xserver-xorg-video-nv
<mich> ok thanks.. btw what is the diff between nv and noueve?
<RAOF> nv is maintained by nvidia, and (deliberately) contains no features.
<mich> btw, I am able to boot to gdm, (nice) but gives arrors and works only in low-resolution mode
<mich> aha
<RAOF> nouveau aims to be fully featured, but is a bit experimental.
<hrocha> are you able to boot a 64bit ubuntu inside virtualbox?
<mich> I am in system
<mich> in low res mode,
<hrocha> i tried to boot from a lucid x64 but it doesn't boot
<hrocha> vbox says that it doesn't support x86-64
<hrocha> am i missing something?
<mich> nope I did not tried it.. probably vbox can't run 64bit
<DanaG> I  think vbox can... it may just not be enabled by default.
<hrocha> hmm, ok
<DanaG> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=730912
<bjsnider> i've got the 195 driver in my ppa which apparently works on lucid
<hrocha> from launchpad i suppose the latest daily doesn't have the issue i'm having while trying to install luic
<hrocha> *lucid
<crimsun> bjsnider: you should submit it to the xorg-edgers PPA
<CosmiChaos> bjsnider, yeah hope they will go further than 195.22 before christmas
<crimsun> man, you guys are slave drivers
<bjsnider> crimsun, the blob is not a xorg supported driver
<crimsun> a week before the holiday and you're asking for more releases?
<crimsun> bjsnider: there's an existing 190.42 in that PPA.
<CosmiChaos> crimsun, i always do
<bjsnider> crimsun, that's their bidnez
<crimsun> bjsnider: the point is to provide a central location for it
<crimsun> bjsnider: I haven't read anything saying that the proprietary driver is *unwelcome* in that PPA
<CosmiChaos> bjsnider, hey its just nvidia released 195.62 whql for windows weeks ago, i guess they could spent more effort in supplying linux users with latest drivers
<mich> is there any way to make my ubuntu run faster? (it's slow as hell.. even liveCD runs faster... :-( on same machine   (from karmic Alpha3 )
<CosmiChaos> mich, never directly upgrade from alpha to alpha
<mich> whaat? :-D
<mich> I always did that :-)
<mich> i've installed alpha 3 and only upgraded via apt
<CosmiChaos> not a very good idea
<mich> so that's the reason why is my karmic so fked up?
<crimsun> huh? we're being kinda sloppy if you *can't* upgrade between alphas
<CosmiChaos> you are running karmic?
<mich> lucid :-)
<mich> upgraded from karmic  :-D
<CosmiChaos> i suggest you never to go on using upgraded releases for developing new versions
<mich> but system is very slow last few months :-(
<CosmiChaos> always fresh install latest release and then upgrade on release scheduler point steps
<mich> wow! nvidia-195 saved the day! Lucid works fine with that x server/org :-)
<mich> aha, I'll know then :-)
<bjsnider> crimsun, my ppa contains vdpau=related stuff that woudl also have to go in there, including mplayer, libvdpau and xine. i think it would be better to keep that stuff separate
 * DanaG is using Lucid with Karmic X server, because radeon open-source driver is bad for heat and my sanity (fan noise).
<mich> so probably it will be wiser to use Karmic only
<CosmiChaos> thats just to reduce trashing devolping process with bugs that are just upgrade issues
<CosmiChaos> and of course to avoid bugs
<mich> so I'll install fresh karmic probably ;-/
<bjsnider> DanaG, there isn't power management on that driver even in the bleeding-edge version?
<CosmiChaos> other way would be to never use beta and regularly run upgrade and upgrade distrubution when its released
<mich> ok thank you guys, my system works again
<mich> good night!
<CosmiChaos> that way you can keep your instalaltion most securly
<hrocha> good night, bye
<DanaG> [  578.690766] type=1503 audit(1261179503.146:24):  operation="file_lock" pid=7889 parent=2653 profile="/usr/lib/firefox-3.6*/firefox{,*[^s][^h]}" requested_mask="k::" denied_mask="k::" fsuid=1000 ouid=1000 name="/media/shared/firefox/dana/.parentlock"
<DanaG> hmm, anyone here know how to tweak apparmor?
<CosmiChaos> libesd0 (=0.2.41-6ubuntu1 available) depends on esound-clients (=0.2.41-6ubuntu1 available) that depends on esound-common (=0.2.41-6ubuntu1) but 0.2.41-6 is installed, no new esound-common available...
<nvme> how do i configure the startup stuff for udev ?
<DanaG> hmm, does this new phonon have the new pulseaudio stuff?
<crimsun> not enabled in the Kubuntu builds last I checked
<crimsun> but yes, it would
<crimsun> OTOH I have no idea if it has been ported to KDE SC's
<DanaG> hmm, works fine as-is; do we at least know it'll be there in the final version?
<crimsun> ask in Kubuntu-devel
<crimsun> CosmiChaos: libesd-alsa0 is awaiting binary NEW
<crimsun> CosmiChaos: you can just grab it from launchpadlibrarian if it ruffles your fluffles that much
#ubuntu+1 2009-12-19
<CosmiChaos> crimsun, the problem is not libesd0-alsa0 but missing version 0.2.41-6ubuntu1 of esound-common
<crimsun> CosmiChaos: -common is an arch all package, so it's built on an i386 buildd
<crimsun> CosmiChaos: and, unless you're playing silly ftp-master games, none of those debs are available
<crimsun> CosmiChaos: they're all blocked on libesd-alsa0 being accepted from binary NEW by an archive admin
<CosmiChaos> thats the actual dependency issue
<crimsun> it's pretty clearly outlined at https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/lucid/+queue
<crimsun> (just expand the esound i386 spinner)
<bjsnider> dtchen has decided to be crimsun tonight
<bjsnider> possibly because of the lunar cycle
* crimsun changed the topic of #ubuntu+1 to: Official Ubuntu Lucid Lynx support and discussion channel | GNOME packages will block until libesd-alsa0 is binary NEWed and published. Hang tight. | IRC Guidelines: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IrcGuidelines | Milestones: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/LucidLynxSchedule | Alpha 1 released: http://www.ubuntu.com/testing/lucid/alpha1
<DanaG> grr, apparmor keeps blocking firefox-3.6.
<i_is_broke> ok i have had enough of the trolls and morons in the ubuntu channel, what is happening here today..anything new and exciting?
<i_is_broke> and should i be scared to reboot my computer:D lmao
<i_is_broke> i just did updates.
<i_is_broke> yep there goes oldude
<i_is_broke> lets see if it will bring up smoke and fire..:D
<bjsnider> trolls and morons?
<bjsnider> are there politicians in there again?
<i_is_broke> oh yeah,lol might be.
<burzki> MSers
<i_is_broke> yeah bad.
<i_is_broke> i cant say much i didnt know squat before i started, and heck i feel like i still dont.
<JontheEchidna> DanaG: The latest Phonon updates have the new PA integration. Not sure how good it is since I don't have PA installed
<i_is_broke> isnt phonon updated with PA?
<bjsnider> microsoft advocates?
<DanaG> hmm, what's the UI for the device-manager stuff supposed to look like?
<bjsnider> you mean devicekit-disks?
<bjsnider> or palimpsest i guess is the actual name
<i_is_broke> <<< wonders what the chances are of lexmarks adding help to linux for there printers???
<swoody> I don't think it's too likely unless the Linux market share takes a strong upswing :/
 * swoody has a Lexmark printer collecting dust ;)
<i_is_broke> yeah me too..:(
<swoody> but I also have a portable HP printer that works beautifully :)
<i_is_broke> thats ok, tax time going to get one of them new fangled contraptions...laser jet or something
<swoody> I don't feel too bad about the Lexmark since it was free with my laptop purchase
<i_is_broke> yeah the ol lady uses it on her computer...but just to print off instructions or directions..so it still collects dust.lol
<swoody> haha
<swoody> She uses Windows?
<i_is_broke> i think its been used 5 times this year.
<swoody> ah, gotcha
<i_is_broke> yeah, i should of started her with linux..now she wont switch.
<swoody> have you tried recently? I was really suprised when after setting up dual-boot on my fiancee's laptop. Two weeks into it, and she asked me to apt-get purge the Windows install :D
<i_is_broke> lol, well she sees me on mine and says she likes all the cool stuff but she dont want to give up her windows..so i dont know...maybe when it crashes again..lmao ill install it and tell her to suffer.
<swoody> haha, good plan :)
<swoody> waiting for Windows to crash... that shouldn't take too long ;)
<i_is_broke> yeah that is kind of what i figured.lol
<swoody> Is there anything that she *needs* Windows for? Any apps or anything that are stickly Windows-only?
<i_is_broke> na, she only checks mail, and plays online games on yearbook, or myspace or whatever they are
<i_is_broke> if i can load java and flash she would be set.
<swoody> nice, well if she does go to switch, that should make things easier :)
<i_is_broke> yeah i wouldnt have to do much.
<swoody> Does she already use Firefox, too?
<i_is_broke> and i wouldnt have to worry about it crashing every other day either.
<i_is_broke> yeah she uses firefox and some of the other apps already.
<swoody> very nice :)
<i_is_broke> well time for me to take my meds, and try and get some sleep got an early day ahead of me tomorrow, so you all have a good one and peace im out.
<swoody> you should try the same line I used... "no defrag, no anti-virus, auto-updates... you can just *use* your computer" :)
<bjsnider> a properly set up windows rig will not crash every day
<bjsnider> lots of pc users under power their windows rigs
<bjsnider> or buy cheap garbage clone machines
<bjsnider> if they paid for the kind of hardware typically in mac computers, they'd have hardly any trouble with crashes
<swoody> but if they used a 5yr old piece of junk, they would be over-powered for Linux ;)
<swoody> lol
<bjsnider> no amount of horsepower would ever be enough for me
<swoody> too true, but I got rid of my nice desktop rig, and I'm only using a crappy-lappy at the moment
<swoody> gone from a Phenom II X4 940 Black Edition to a 1.7GHz Celeron M :P
<bjsnider> that has major sucking potential
<swoody> indeed :/
<swoody> and went from two 9800GX2's in SLI to integrated graphics :P
<swoody> but tbh, this lappy is everything I need... internet, movies, music... that's about it for me.
<swoody> that rig was just for Folding@Home really
<bjsnider> swoody, what do you mean you got rid of it?
<swoody> bjsnider: parted it out and sold it off
<bjsnider> why?
<swoody> bjsnider: needed some $$, and my 'spare' computer was the first thing to go
<bjsnider> swoody, well, from my cold, dead hands, i say
<sebsebseb> Rather good article and to do with Ubuntu releases including Lucid. http://www.insidesocal.com/click/2009/12/ubuntu-linux-gnome-and-xorg-th.html
<sebsebseb> article/blog entry
<burzki> looks interesting.  thx
<sebsebseb> burzki: I haven't finnished reading this yet  http://arstechnica.com/open-source/news/2009/12/ubuntu-1004-will-bring-panel-overhaul-social-network-menu.ars
<burzki> oh geez.  i'll bookmark it for later though .. ;-)
<sebsebseb> burzki: i'll finnish reading now
<komputes> For those who are interested in reviewing/confirming important bugs, here are my top bug nominations picks for Lucid
<komputes> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/komputes/TopBugs
<kazagistar> so, I have participated in the alphas a few times before, and have always plenty of fun (the masochistic but educational kind :P)... what is my chance of getting a usable system, given no particularly problematic hardware (with the possible exception of my nvidea graphics card) if I install Alpha 4?
<kazagistar> er, I meant alpha 1, of course
<kazagistar> (no clue why I hit the 4 key...)
<soee> hi
<aboSamoor> can I upgrade to LL alpha1, or I should wait till alpha 2 ?
<soee> aboSamoor: u can but i do not reccomand that :)
<soee> u can ask for other opinions to :)
<soee> *s
<hyperstream> Guys ive been getting a black screen for my Compaq Persario CQ61-314TU, in Karmic (LiveCD, with/without all the f6 options, and f4(safe graphics mode) and Alternate cd(Installs upon selecting from grub to boot karmic black screen), seems there is no solution?
<hyperstream> what would have changed in karmic > Lucid to resolve this?
<SwedeMike> hyperstream: what do you mean by "black screen" ?
<hyperstream> let me find the post that is exactly what im having, and the same steps ive taken
<hyperstream> its even almost exactly the same laptop possibly is: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1313857
<hyperstream> SwedeMike, thats perfect explaination + the steps ive taken, except the safe graphics option posted by another user that seems to perhaps solved the Threat starter's issue, does not work for me.
<SwedeMike> oki, so screen is completely black, nothing on it at all?
<hyperstream> thats correct
<SwedeMike> when does that happen? after grub?
<hyperstream> it seems to boot up, but i cannot see anything, i cannot access any consoles/terminals
<hyperstream> SwedeMike, this happeneds, on the live cd, as soon as you try to boot live cd or install ubuntu(from livecd menu), even with playing with f4(safe graphics) and all the f6 options(combo and single selections)
<hyperstream> SwedeMike,  and i used the alternate cd to install, it installed and then when booting for the first time, i get grub->hit enter to boot into linux(fails on safe mode option too) i get a flood of text(if i take quite and splash off) then blackscreen, almost as if its loading the vga driver
<hyperstream> SwedeMike, this is in karmic, however for some reason Lucid-Alpha works fine.
<SwedeMike> so, edit the grub boot statement and remove "quiet splash" at the end
<hyperstream> ive done that, i get the black screen
<SwedeMike> press esc, press e, go down to the second row, press e again, go to the end of the line, delete quiet splash, press esc, then b
<hyperstream> 'i get a flood of text(if i take quite and splash from command line/boot line)'
<SwedeMike> what about alt-f1 then when that happens
<hyperstream> is what i ment.
<hyperstream> i cannot get any consoles or terminals, from f1 - f4 and nothing for f7
<SwedeMike> but it works if you boot it in rescue mode (single user) ?
<hyperstream> no
<hyperstream> black screen again.
<SwedeMike> are you SURE you have removed quiet and splash when this happens?
<SwedeMike> because if you can get the text while the kernel is booting, I don't see why it would go black in rescue mode
<hyperstream> yes. When i remove those two, i get a spam/flood of the first boot stage(im not sure what to call this stage) loads ata stuff and all sorts in a blink of a eye, then its as if it loads the vga driver and boom the screen turns off and then back on to a solid black screen
<hyperstream> SwedeMike, no one in #ubuntu understands either
<SwedeMike> take some kind of camera or something and make a movie of this and put on youtube or something, so we can see what's happening. First try booting into rescue mode without splash and quiet
<hyperstream> once Lucid is installed, i might take a video(or try to) of me doing every possible suggested solution/possible solution, so people can see what im doing exactly
<hyperstream> ahah you read my mind
<hyperstream> ill see if the old fella has a cam i can use
<SwedeMike> or a digital camera or something
<hyperstream> SwedeMike, i will have a thing up on youtube tommorow
<hyperstream> best i can do, will you be on tommorow night this timeish ?
<SwedeMike> hyperstream: just post the url and people can look at it and if they have some idea, they'll reply.
<SwedeMike> hyperstream: just hilight me when you post the url and I can take a look
<hyperstream> SwedeMike, nps mate, thanks heaps
<hyperstream> talk tommorow :)
<Milos_SD> Hi
<Milos_SD> I updated udev to lucid version (I have Karmic installed), and now I can't force the version to karmic one (it wants to delete almost all system packages)
<Milos_SD> how can I do it safely?
<Bookman> Is it possible to upgrade to 10.04 using the .iso image without burning a CD or USB stick?
<Bookman> In other words, can I mount the .iso?
<maco> Bookman: yes
<maco> Bookman: the alternate iso, yes
<maco> Bookman: then add it as an apt repository and upgrade from there
<Bookman> Excellent.  I will d/l that to begin with
<maco> if you have to download it anyway, why not just do-release-upgrade?
<yotux> maco: that is what I was going to say
<Bookman> maco, I'm on a wireless laptop and I don't have a spare wired connection.  I don't want to upgrade via wireless.  It has not worked out well in the past.
<maco> ahh ok
<Bookman> And for some reason my USB thumbdrive is not working, nor is my CD drive.
<Bookman> Is there a Nautalis script to mount iso images?
<Bookman> Ah, I found gmount
<Bookman> When I add software sources....how do I do that?
<Bookman> To point to my mounted drive?
<Bookman> I have downloaded the altenate CD, mounted it via gmount, now how to I add it to my apt repository?
<maco> Bookman: ah, crimsun says in "man sources.list" theres a file:/// way to do it
<maco> im trying to read it onow
<maco> *now
<maco> oh ok thats easy enough
<maco> deb file:/mountpoint/ubuntu lucid main
<Bookman> So if my mount was in say home/keithclark/Lucid,  I would:
<Bookman> deb file:/home/keithclark/Lucid lucid main?
<maco> you still need the /ubuntu
<Bookman> gotcha, thanks!
<maco> and umm..hrmm im not sure how the cd's hierarchy looks...
<Bookman> Let me check
<Bookman> ubuntu sub directory is there
<maco> ok
<Bookman> Do I need to change the permissions on that mounted drive first?
<Bookman> hmm, I add it but it does not show up on the list
<maco> if you have read permissions i would assume thats enough...
<maco> youll have to run apt-get update after adding to sources.list
<Bookman> still no show
<Bookman> Ok, I redid everything and now it shows up
<Bookman> Lets see what happens now
<lvh> Hello!
<lvh> I know that the notify-osd wierdness is not a bug but a feature, but what's the recommended way of turning it off?
<lvh> Pinning on luicd and then adding jaunty repos?
<yofel> lvh: see last post on bug 482661
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 482661 in notify-osd "[lucid] notify-osd has bad rendering" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/482661
<lvh> yofel, awesome thank you
<yofel> you're welcome
<lvh> yofel, I googled and found another bug, unfortunately
<yofel> lvh: which one?
<lvh> yofel, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/notify-osd/+bug/495938
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 495938 in notify-osd "Notify-osd in lucid: Glitchy appearance" [Undecided,Invalid]
<lvh> yofel, that basically says "it's not a bug, it's a debug flag" but doesn't say how to get rid of the debug flag
<lvh> perhaps I should add a comment so that future googlers can figure out how to get rid of it?
 * yofel puts his BugSquad hat on and marks that bug as a duplicate of the other one
<om26er> lvh, sudo gedit /usr/share/osd-notify/org.somethinglinke notification open it and remove debug=1
<jordanwb> I want to replace gdm with slim on 10.04 Alpha 1 but when I reboot it still starts gdm instead of slim
<yofel> jordanwb: you adjusted /etc/X11/default-display-manager?
<jordanwb> yofel: it says /etc/bin/slim
<jordanwb> I'll reboot again and see what happens
<yofel> etc?
<yofel> you mean /usr/bin/slim
<jordanwb> Yes
<yofel> hm, odd
<yofel> it shouldn't start gdm in that case
<yofel> can you start slim by hand? ('service gdm stop' and then run slim)
<jordanwb> well it does because upstart says that gdm terminated which is why I want to replace it with slim
<yofel> in a tty
<jordanwb> running "slim" works
<yofel> then I'm out of ideas, a lot seems to have changed with upstart...
<jordanwb> The file /etc/X11/default... is not executable. Should it be?
<Bookman> Worked wonderful!  Upgraded and everything seems ok.
<yofel> jordanwb: not here, but I use kdm and that has it's own init script, does slim have one?
<jordanwb> It seems that usplash is till around on my machine even though I replaced it with plymouth
<jordanwb> I believe slim has its own init
<jordanwb> Yes it does
<DanaG> hmm, plymouth refuses to run on my system.
<jordanwb> I checked /etc/rc2.d and slim is enabled. I'm gonna restart and see what happens
<jordanwb> gdm was killed bt TERM signal, don't know what's up with that
<jordanwb> by TERM*
<jordanwb> slim never gets around to loading
<jordanwb> I see that usplash hasn't GTFO'd yet
<bjsnider> DanaG, with what driver?
<DanaG> uvesafb.
<DanaG> By "refuses to run", I mean this:
<DanaG> https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=22239
<ubottu> Freedesktop bug 22239 in plymouth general "improve console= handling" [Normal,New]
<bjsnider> DanaG, what's the exact mesage you're getting when it tries to load?
<DanaG> "Unexpectedly disconnected from boot status daemon" is about the most I get.
<DanaG> Or, when I previously tried plymouth during Jaunty development cycle and try plymouth=debug (or whatever the debug thingy was), I got "loading details.so" immediately.
<bjsnider> what about "mountall can't load plymouth"
<DanaG> I don't think I've seen that message.
<jordanwb> gdm was killed even though it was never supposed to start, DRDY errors: haven't seen those in a long time
<jordanwb> upstart never starts slim
<jordanwb> hey it finially decided to start slim
<jordanwb> I'm gonna restore my 9.04 backup
<virtuald> halp my memory is full i can't run ps or swapon or anything
<virtuald> can i get something dumped to my logs?
<i_is_broke> isnt apport for help with bugs?
<i_is_broke> and what path is the source.list in..i have to fix mine.
<i_is_broke> have repeats of some.
<_Groo_> hi/2 all
<_Groo_> are the beta 2 packages being made for lucid yet?
<charlie-tca> no
<charlie-tca> lucid is in alpha1
<charlie-tca> It will not even go beta for 3 months
<_Groo_> no no, sorry, packages for kde 4.4 beta 2!!! lol
<_Groo_> i forgot the kde part %D
<_Groo_> kdenlive akd koffice packages are still broken in alpha 1 till today.. where can i open bug reports?
<charlie-tca> I believe they want them filed directly at the upstream bug trackers now for kde.
<charlie-tca> https://bugs.kde.org/
<charlie-tca> Unless it is Kubuntu specific, the it is https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+filebug/
<BUGabundo> boas
<BUGabundo> hey cha
<BUGabundo> hey charlie-tca
<_Groo_> charlie-tca: its kubuntu specific, they are dependecy bugs (classic package dep loop) not kde ones
<charlie-tca> Hello, BUGabundo
<_Groo_> BUGabundo: portugues?
<BUGabundo> hey _Groo_
<BUGabundo> s
<_Groo_> BUGabundo: tb mas vivo no brasil
<BUGabundo> :)
<_Groo_> BUGabundo: for the time being ayway
<_Groo_> gonna post 2 bugs then, kdenlive and koffice-kde4 are still broken, old dependencies mixed with new ones
<ubuntu> Hi .. need some help ... I just tried upgrading to lucid lynx alpha .. and my computer doesn't boot anymore ...
<ubuntu> anyone here?
<BUGabundo> I guess he got scared
<BUGabundo> bye
<BUGabundo> :p
<arand> Hmm, seems like the "lucid is alpha, break away" is gone from topic...
<_Groo_> if they dont know what to do dont upgrade to an unstable alpha i always say :D
<sebsebseb> hi
<BUGabundo> hey sebsebseb
<sebsebseb> BUGabundo: hey
<charlie-tca> scared is good with lucid, isn't it?
<_Groo_> pls see https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/koffice2/+bug/498608
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 498608 in koffice2 "wrong dependencies in krita break both krita and koffice-kde4 install" [Undecided,New]
<_Groo_> also see https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kdenlive/+bug/498612
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 498612 in kdenlive "kdenlive asks for wrong dependencies, cant be installed in lucid" [Undecided,New]
<oldude67> is it just with the newer ati video cards that is a problem with ubuntu? or are the older cards an issue too?
<oldude67> the reason im asking is i want to try and install one on a system and see how it is done, so that i can know the issues with them..and what it takes to get them to work.
<bjsnider> oldude67, what problems. what distro.
<oldude67> not a problem i just wanted to learn, never had to install one and thought it might be something that i could learn from
<bjsnider> well, old cards don't work with fglrx anymore so when you install ubuntu, the card is installed too
<bjsnider> new cards you have the option of at least 3 drivers: radeon, radeonhd, and fglrx
<bjsnider> each have strengths and weaknesses
<DanaG> I'd count "radeonhd" out, nowadays.  It's old hat.
<oldude67> ok, and what is considered old?
<bjsnider> DanaG probably knows more at this point in time
<DanaG> I mean, radeon has been actively under development; radeonhd, not so much.
<bjsnider> i'd say anything pre radeon hd is old
<DanaG> I'm talking driver, not card.
<DanaG> "radeonhd" driver is old.
<DanaG> That was Novell's thing.
<bjsnider> well, i'm sure it hasn't been developed as hard since novell fired luc whatshisname from the team
<DanaG> "Radeon" has good stability, but lacks good power management, and OpenGL 3.  fglrx is less stable (and won't work with Lucid X server!), but has power management and now OpenGL 3.2.
<DanaG> So for right now, radeon is really the only choice.
<DanaG> (unless you do the same hideously hack I did: pin packages to keep Karmic X server on Lucid system.)
<DanaG> hideous hack.
<bjsnider> fglrx prpobably won't support the lucid x server until april some time if it follows recent history
<bjsnider> usualy they toss in support right at the end of an ubuntu cycle
<bjsnider> ati stuff is really a friggin nightmare i would think
<oldude67> well i know that ati has a big difference then any video i have currently installed so i thought i would try and see if i could learn from installing one.
<bjsnider> i think the only thing you'd learn is that you hate ati stuff
<DanaG> Wait, is this desktop, or laptop?
<oldude67> well i have already heard that one..lol
<DanaG> The open-source driver has gotten pretty good, nowadays.
<DanaG> Even supports Kernel-Modesetting.
<DanaG> Power usage is the only blocker left for me; I do any gaming on Windows, anyway.
<oldude67> ah i have never been much of a gamer, most i play is solitary.lol
<DanaG> Sounds like "radeon" open driver should be okay, then.
<oldude67> ok ill check it and let you know how it goes.probably be sometime tomorrow tho as i have a couple of other projects to do in front of it.
<DanaG> hmm, given the same approximate settings, kwin is way slower than compiz.
<bjsnider> DanaG, isn't that kind of thing subjective?
<DanaG> No, not when kwin is drawing the desktop at 30 fps, and compiz at 60.
<DanaG> And when rotating the cube, kwin goes at like 5 fps with opaque cube; compiz goes to 30 with transparent cube.
<oldude67> oh i would like to thank everyone that has helped me in the past and will help me in the future..still learning things as i go and the info is always welcomed. anyway thanks.
<bjsnider> tell them in #kubuntu-devel
<oldude67> bjsnider, was that directed to me or DanaG ?
<bjsnider> DanaG
<oldude67> ok
<_Groo_> DanaG: are you using xrender or opengl? vsync enabled? did you change the settings in main config window to fast or really fast? or is it in normal speed?
<DanaG> speed is "normal"
<_Groo_> DanaG: try putting it to the fastest and try again, and disable vsync
<arielCo> Hello everyone... why am I getting a "distribution upgrade" even though I'm running Karmic? Shouldn't update-manager wait for Lucid to be released?
<bjsnider> wouldn't vsinc merely hold it down to 60 fps?
<DanaG> But animation duration and FPS should be independent.  yup, it seems to be.
<DanaG> well, now kwin desktop is 45 fps.
<DanaG> Magic lamp animation dips down to 25.
<_Groo_> DanaG: nvidia setup?
<DanaG> nope, ATI (fglrx and karmic's xorg).
<DanaG> hmm, I'll have to try it on the OSS driver some time on a different system, for comparison.
<_Groo_> DanaG: beta 1 is broken with radeon, at least on my card
<DanaG> I also keep getting things like plasma randomly crashing... likely due to X server library differences.
<DanaG> Latest kwin updates unbroke kwin for me.
<_Groo_> DanaG: really, which card?
<_Groo_> DanaG: in 4.4 beta 1? kubuntu lucid?
<DanaG> Version: 4:4.3.80-0ubuntu4
<_Groo_> DanaG: nope, still broken here
<DanaG> weird.
<_Groo_> DanaG: unfortunatelly.. :( i cant live without tab windows anymore lol
<DanaG> try checking "disable functionality checks"
<DanaG> interesting... the fps graph thing itself.. creates significant gpu usage.
<_Groo_> yeah i did, still broken
<DanaG> dang,
<_Groo_> DanaG: oh, try to put texture filter to nearest to speed up stuff
<DanaG> hmm, guess it still looks pretty good like that.
<DanaG> hmm, now I just need to tweak duration.
<DanaG> aah.
<DanaG> I had it at Trilinear.
<_Groo_> DanaG: which explains the speed drop, if you put compiz with best display its pretty slow and memory hog
<DanaG> I had compiz at best filter also, though.
<DanaG> Perhaps compiz's best is not as expensive as kwin's best.
<_Groo_> DanaG: my experience shows me kde 3d is actually faster and less memory hog then compiz
<_Groo_> DanaG: compiz dont have trilinear, only bilinear, if you want to test trilinear you have to activate the hmm plugin... whats the name..
<DanaG> hmm, how do you switch window-tabs?
<DanaG> bicubic, do you mean?
<_Groo_> DanaG: yeah
<DanaG> hmm, kwin on bilinear is fast enough.  thanks for the tips.
<_Groo_> DanaG: you welcome, what card do you have?
<DanaG> Mobility HD3650.
<sebsebseb> arielCo: That's probably not for Lucid.
<DanaG> Using fglrx until Radeon gets KMS power management.
<arielCo> sebsebseb: okay. So, why a "distro" upgrade now?
<sebsebseb> arielCo: I have seen that kind of thing before...
<sebsebseb> arielCo: Does it say that it will upgrade to Lucid?  If not then, I guess it won't.
<arielCo> sebsebseb: there was a partial upgrade before, and now this one
<sebsebseb> arielCo: you used the graphical update manager yeah?
<_Groo_> DanaG: ahhh thats why you can use kwin 3d Â¬Â¬ its broken for radeon!
<sebsebseb> arielCo: when a new release is available for it, it will say so, and there will be a button and a message, offering the upgrade
<sebsebseb> arielCo: and saying a new version is available
<sebsebseb> arielCo: also you didn't change any settings for which distro versions are shown right?
<arielCo> sebsebseb: yup, that's what I remember coming from Jaunty. This one popped on its own, and wants to change nvidia drivers, firefox, mplayer ...
<arielCo> sebsebseb: I think not
<sebsebseb> arielCo: ok should be ok to run it then,  I think
<_Groo_> arielCo: partial upgrades as you called it are normal, normally for bugfixing, DISTRO upgrades are usually done ever 6 months in (k/x)ubuntu and they update the entire OS, they are announced and NEVER enforced into users
<DanaG> If gnome-shell is going to go the way I think it's going... I'm going KDE.  KDE 4.4 is pretty dang nice.
<DanaG> Even better on a high-DPI display; then the hugeness of the Oxygen style no longer wastes significant space.
 * _Groo_ wants is kwin 3d back :(
<DanaG> hmm, you could get the source of kwin, and find the checks that are failing?
<bjsnider> arielCo, are you using a ppa repo?
<arielCo> _Groo_: yes, what got me wondering is that the window caption is "Distribution Upgrade" but it's a bit early for Lucid
<arielCo> bjsnider: a few, for applications. Why?
<bjsnider> which ones
<_Groo_> arielCo: what version are you now? karmic?
<_Groo_> DanaG: i know its fixed for beta 2...
<arielCo> _Groo_: I'm running Karmic
<_Groo_> arielCo: strange
<sebsebseb> So what's this about Gnome packages in the topic?
<arielCo> bjsnider: VLC, Nvidia drivers, Deluge, and a silly thing named Ubuntu Tweak
<bjsnider> arielCo, i meant which ppas
<arielCo> wait - I'll pastebin my sources
<sebsebseb> GNOME packages will block until libesd-alsa0 is binary NEWed and published. Hang tight.
<DanaG> heh, tabbed windows with tabs inside... interesting.
<sebsebseb> DanaG: For what?
<DanaG> pidgin.  I have a window with (#cplug and #ubuntu+1) on one tab, and (#ati and #radeon) in the other.
<_Groo_> DanaG: its the feature that got me sold for 4.4 :) i missed them since blackbox
<sebsebseb> DanaG: uhmm cplug?  the brackets stuff?
<DanaG> brackets?
<DanaG> no, Cal Poly Linux Users Group.
<sebsebseb> ah ha ok
<sebsebseb> you were on about channels
<_Groo_> DanaG: since it works for everything (kwin takes care of that), i usually have chromium, akregator, kmail and konversation in one maximized window
<arielCo> sebsebseb: http://pastebin.com/m76c05ec6
<bjsnider> DanaG, how many people are in that group?
<DanaG> The group varies in size from year to year and quarter to quarter, but it's at least a "handful".
<sebsebseb> On the subject of browsers, but off topic really for here,  a message from Microsoft saying about browsers that are available as alternatives to Internet Explorer is coming.
<bjsnider> arielCo, before you upgrade, refresh again because i just published a new mplayer that fixes that annoying fontconfig issue
<sebsebseb> as a Windows update
<bjsnider> DanaG, i'll bet you are that group's Tyler Durden
<_Groo_> btw are you guys going to publish ffmpeg-mt, mplayer/mencoder-mt for lucid too?
<DanaG> Can't say I know who that is.
<sebsebseb> _Groo_: well that could help quite a bit with chromieum/chrome market share, and Firefox etc, so :)
#ubuntu+1 2009-12-20
<arielCo> sebsebseb: it's a feature requested by the EU. On installation, Windows7 should prompt for which browser you want to use, out of a list of popular browsers. There's an article linked/discussed on /.
<arielCo> bjsnider: too late - done it
<_Groo_> DanaG: mplayer, ffmpeg and mencoder with multi code support
<sebsebseb> arielCo: yes that's what I am on about,  it's been requested by the EU yep
<_Groo_> multi core
<sebsebseb> arielCo: well not the EU,  the European Commission
<DanaG> wrong tab-complete?
<bjsnider> arielCo, ok, just refresh again and the new mplayer will show up
<arielCo> sebsebseb: awright, I always mix them up. Gotta read up on that some time.
<bjsnider> DanaG, brad pitt's psychotic nihilist cult leader from "fight club"
<arielCo> bjsnider: yup - just got 2:1.0~rc3+svn20091207-0ubuntu1~karmic~nvidiavdpauppa11
<DanaG> Never seen that movie.
<DanaG> heh, now I need an amdxvba / vaapi PPA.
<sebsebseb> arielCo: now we just need one,  saying what OS's are avaiable as alternatives :D  Ubuntu etc
 * arielCo giggles
<arielCo> sebsebseb, that would be a sticker outside the box, so you can choose before shelling out
<DanaG> hang tight?  made me think of "hang loose" -- not sure what that would mean.
<arielCo> hmm... gotta give MPlayer a scalable icon
<bjsnider> arielCo, i would stay away from gmplayer. install mplayer-nogui and either gnome-mplayer or smplayer
<bjsnider> nobody's touched gmplayer in years
<DanaG> hmm, on your kwin, what style window border do you use?  Lines, or the tab thingy?
<arielCo> what's gmplayer? I got MPlayer and MPlayer-nogui
<DanaG> isn't gnome-mplayer just gmplayer?
<bjsnider> mpayer is gmplayer
<arielCo> oh, g for GNOME?
<bjsnider> DanaG, no, it is a completely new gtk gui
<bjsnider> no, g for gui
<_Groo_> bjsnider: actually its a very OLD gtk gui
<bjsnider> gnome-mplayer is a great little program too
<_Groo_> best mplayer gui is smplayer, hands down
<bjsnider> _Groo_, i was talking about gnome-mplayer when i said it was a completely new gtk gui
<bjsnider> _Groo_, i agree
<_Groo_> bjsnider: ah ok
<arielCo> oh, now I get it - gmplayer is the default gui app supplied with mplayer
<bjsnider> right
<bjsnider> and it's an old piece of crap
<arielCo> I remember using smplayer on Windows some time ago - nice enough, save for some quirks I don't remember well now
<bjsnider> smplayer has about 350k options
<arielCo> oh yes, now I remember that it had a lot in common with mencoder, and the docs were sometimes inconsistent
<arielCo> some options had changed
<_Groo_> bjsnider: yeah, its a qt/kde app, its suposed to be that way... gnomies prefer the:  i just want a play button and maybe a fullscreen button, gnome knows better then me what i must use.. just like oprah
<bjsnider> oprah?
<_Groo_> bjsnider: yeah oprah and gnome have a lot in common , they both know whats best for their audience
<arielCo> bjsnider, it looks a lot better than I remember :D
<DanaG> then what's gnome-mplayer?
<arielCo> _Groo_ good one
<bjsnider> that's the first time oprah has ever been dragged into an irc discussion, that i know of
<_Groo_> bjsnider: im original
<bjsnider> DanaG, gnomne-mplayer is a completely new gtk gui for mplayer
<bjsnider> _Groo_, do i sense a bit of contempt and loathing for oprah's audience?
<_Groo_> bjsnider: nahhh, after all less is more... why do you need all features if you just use one feature, the problem is, even if you want TWO features you only can use ONE.. so you cant actually complain lol
<sebsebseb> arielCo: yep I guess, regarding the box
<DanaG> gmplayer doesn't have deinterlacing options, for example.
<arielCo> gnome's fine if you need someone to hold your hand. At some time you may want to walk on your own even if you trip over from time to time.
<DanaG> weird... kwin 4.4 doesn't do the liney style.
<sebsebseb> arielCo: that's not just Gnome, that's Ubuntu
<sebsebseb> arielCo: at some stage, you might want to use a distro that isn't as easy to use
<arielCo> sebsebseb: good enough for non-technical people. I once tried Kubuntu but it lasted less than a week.
<_Groo_> arielCo: GUIs arent hard or easy, kde/gnome are both fine from a starting point, the problem is that gnome treats all users as stupid little...beeep...
<arielCo> _Groo_: right on. I remember a fine example around xscreensaver
<sebsebseb> arielCo: hmm?
<DanaG> oh yeah, that whole brouhaha
<bjsnider> and kde is voluble to the point where you want the explanations and excessive options to go away
<sebsebseb> arielCo: what's the example?
<DanaG> take a look at the qtcurve config... that's way way too much config displayed by default.
<_Groo_> bjsnider: explanations??? excessive options???
<arielCo> they removed the screensaver configuration button in gnome-screensaver  (or whatever the equivalent applet is called) because that should be handled by the theme instead of the user
<sebsebseb> bjsnider: if you mean KDE 4 can be a bit difficult to set up properly, indeed at that
<arielCo> there was an argument along the lines of "if it needs a configuration dialog, it's broken"
<DanaG> That's bollocks.
<DanaG> Oh no, people could configure their screensaver to say profane things!
<DanaG> =Ã¾
<arielCo> of course it is, but they expected all that to be handled by themes that *someone* would cook up
<_Groo_> bjsnider: the problem is, average user WONT costumize, and when he DOES he WANTS the options.. the problem with gnome is that its a all or nothing (more of nothin) proposition
<DanaG> Or if gnome-shell is the way to come, it's nothing or -- nothing.
<bjsnider> _Groo_, well, i don't see it that way. everything here is changeable
<sebsebseb> arielCo: Well starting with Karmic, I assume it will also be like this for Lucid, but most of the screensavers that were there in the default install aren't anymore.  Apparently that's, because of them running out of space on the CD.
<_Groo_> bjsnider: if you mean, via a register im gonna slap you :D
<DanaG> hmm, in gnome... how do you set rss-glx screensaver "flux" to use only "regular" preset?
<bjsnider> DanaG, why not go to gnome's irc network and talk to the devs there about your concerns?
<arielCo> DanaG: more like "oh no, people will see all those knobs and checkboxes and run away from Ubuntu". I don't know you, but if I bump into an overly-complicated config screen, my first reaction is to hit Cancel until I have time to dig into it.
<_Groo_> arielCo: thats why you are a gnome user ;)
<sebsebseb> arielCo: I would much rather have all those nice screensavers that were there before by default,  than Ubuntu One for example.
<arielCo> _Groo_ : that's why I run the other version of the xscreensaver config, note down the parameters it creates, and edit some file which I can't remember now
<_Groo_> arielCo:  :)
<arielCo> _Groo_ : I'm not afraid of twirling knobs, especially if there's a "Reset" button, but my feeling is that Joe User would say "naw, too complicated", close the dialog, and keep enjoying Ubuntu as it is
<sebsebseb> arielCo: well the software centre will become a rather important and user friendly part of Ubuntu, it seems
<sebsebseb> it's wiki page is good
<sebsebseb> however in the future something about how it will offer commercial apps for people to buy, hmm
<arielCo> haha, now we only have to do   s/sudo apt-get install (\S+)/Install $1 from the Software Center/g   :D
<arielCo> in all docs
<_Groo_> arielCo: joe user would buy the sara palin book and find it "dense"Â¬Â¬ we cant just dumb down everything
<sebsebseb> arielCo: I don't understand what this means (\S+)/Install $1  also why did you put s/sudo ?
<arielCo> I've always wanted it to be an onion-thing. You want deeper control? Fine, take a look and step back if you don't feel capable.
<sebsebseb> Ubuntu is starting to become a lot more for Joe user or whatever you want to call them
<arielCo> sebsebseb: well, the typical advice is to run "sudo apt-get install foo". With the software center, we'd have to change all that to "look for Foo in the Software Centre"
<sebsebseb> ,but if it can target the average computer user, with most of them currently running Windows, well if it can do that and properly,  then it should start to gain a more proper market share
<arielCo> sebsebseb: and I'll be happy to have some distro for them. Joe User might be my mom, or my VP who doesn't have the time to even skim a manpage.
<sebsebseb> by what I have read about 10.04, it seems that 10.04 will be the start of that
<sebsebseb> arielCo: VP?  uhmm remind me what that is, or did I even know hmm
<_Groo_> sebsebseb: but thats the problem (one of) with desktop linux, everyone thinks that ppl want simple stuff, well they DONT, they want familiarity, not simple
<arielCo> haha... vice-president. Old guy making big, hard decisions.
<sebsebseb> arielCo: oh ok that, well we aren't all from the USA, etc
<arielCo> _Groo_: they can handle a change from Windows to a simpler interface even if it's alien to them. Think Windows -> Apple; to tell the truth, most who switch are delighted after a while.
<arielCo> sebsebseb, neither am I but I guess I read a lot of stuff from there
<sebsebseb> most  Linux tech news and such I will read, will be on an American website
<sebsebseb> or  typed/written by one anyway
<_Groo_> arielCo: kde/gnome are actually easier then apple if proper pre configured
<sebsebseb> seems most of the properly active support people in #ubuntu are from USA.
<arielCo> _Groo_: you beat me to it! If we (active users + developers) can manage to simplify most *config* tasks, migrating from Windows to Linux will be as easy as migrating to a Mac. A bit simpler if you count the added ease of not shelling out $1,500 :D
<sebsebseb> and loads of Americans in off topic as well etc
 * arielCo doesn't really know how much Macs cost
 * arielCo glances at sebsebseb  >_>
<sebsebseb> arielCo: why?
<_Groo_> arielCo: thats your fundamental mistake, we dont need to dumbify desktop linux to become apple drones, we need to have them PROPERLY PRE CONFIGURED!
<sebsebseb> would have been good if it was called the Software Centre, rather than Center, by the way, but no
<_Groo_> arielCo: do you know why netbooks with maemo took of? because they JUST WORK!
<arielCo> _Groo_: right
<_Groo_> arielCo: ask an average joe to install and configure windows xp/vista/7.. he would be as lost as installing ubuntu, even loster
<sebsebseb> well maybe not that good, but some of us would have been quite happy :)   it's called that in the menu for those with en GB, but not the program itself
<sebsebseb> Ubuntu is becoming more Windows like it seems
<bjsnider> arielCo, $1k>$1.4k unless you get a pro desktop, which is at least $2500
<sebsebseb> or will be  becoming more Windows like I should say
<arielCo> _Groo_: can Maemo be regarded as basically a well-configured Linux?
<arielCo> sebsebseb: from a layman's perspective there's at least one BIG shining difference - performance!
<sebsebseb> 10.04 might even look more like Windows aero,  well I put this after reading something
<arielCo> the machine under my fingers came with Vista - I can remember the pain of opening a new IE8 window or tab
<bjsnider> internet exploder 8?
<arielCo> sebsebseb: so Compiz will come pre-configured? Not a bad idea.
<arielCo> bjsnider: actually, it's useful as a tool to test my patience
<sebsebseb> also I gave this link out here lastnight/thismorning ,but  this is a good read people
<sebsebseb> http://arstechnica.com/open-source/news/2009/12/ubuntu-1004-will-bring-panel-overhaul-social-network-menu.ars
<arielCo> bjsnider: kinda like a bottle of catsup that you can't shake
<arielCo> going
<_Groo_> arielCo: it already does since jaunty at least
<_Groo_> arielCo: and kwin3d usually just works...
<arielCo> kwin3d? that's a window manager?
<bjsnider> compiz has been out of control for too long. now it's beyond saving
<_Groo_> the problem with windows -> linux migrations are the same of any migrations... perceptions.
<sebsebseb> _Groo_: I also gave this link out here lastnight/thismorning and it fits in well with what your saying, about how Ubuntu doesn't always just work. http://www.insidesocal.com/click/2009/12/ubuntu-linux-gnome-and-xorg-th.html
<_Groo_> first thing i see a new "windows/linux" user do it to scourge the internet looking for drivers/programs to "install" instead of using a package manager, since they arent familiar with the concept
<sebsebseb> Ubuntu doesn't always just work properly on a computer, I should put really
<sebsebseb> _Groo_: that is what your saying isn't it?
<arielCo> do you know if gnome-Do is going to come preconfigured? It's a nice gimmick for the new user. Heck, I use it instead of the panel.
<sebsebseb> arielCo: I think the memenu will be be of interest to newusers as well as a lot of users who have been using Ubuntu for a while already, check out the  arstechnica link
<_Groo_> arielCo: it already does also
<sebsebseb> _Groo_: as for the looking for drivers stuff,  I think eventually Software Centre will start to really take care of that
<arielCo> sebsebseb: in my experience, there's a lot in common between Ubuntu and model kits - some decals to stick on, some rough edges to sand... but then again, installing Windows on a new PC brings some of that feeling
<arielCo> sebsebseb: I'm still trying to figure out my 802.11g card. There seem to be three different choices depending on how "free" I want to go =/
<sebsebseb> arielCo: Ubuntu and model kits,  I am not following
<Ketsuban> What concerns me is the apparent assumption that people only ever interact with other Linux users. This Telepathy stuff is all well and good, but I can't use any of it when talking to the people I talk to because they don't use Linux.
<arielCo> sebsebseb: kinda like these: http://www.jetplanes.co.uk/modelaircraft/mh53seadragon.html
<sebsebseb> Ketsuban: ah yes that
<sebsebseb> well Gimp got ported to Windows
<_Groo_> Ketsuban: This windows messenger stuff is all well and good, but i cant use any of it when talking to the people i talk because they all use windows
<sebsebseb> Empathy could get ported as well,  plus I can think of three ways on how it can be run inside Windows
<sebsebseb> and not natively of course
<arielCo> methinks Empathy was made the default IM client a bit too early
<sebsebseb> arielCo: same here
<sebsebseb> I guess
<sebsebseb> hmm things have gone  well
<BUGabundo> guys a bit OT, what do you know similar to hamachi VPN? I need a way to hook two PCs, that can't open ports between them !
<sebsebseb> off topic here, but no one telling us off
<arielCo> BUGabundo: there's Hamachi for Linux, afaik
<BUGabundo> arielCo: I know, but its no longer mantained
<BUGabundo> and some of its depencies no longer work
<arielCo> hmm... I remember having done some research a while ago
<arielCo> wait up
<_Groo_> BUGabundo: openVPN?
<sebsebseb> I feel like using the bot
<sebsebseb> !ot
<ubottu> #ubuntu+1 handles support for the development version of Ubuntu.  Please join #ubuntu for all other Ubuntu support.  Chat in #ubuntu-offtopic.
<_Groo_> ubottu: goood bot, gooood bot, heres a cookie!
<ubottu> Error: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<_Groo_> ubottu: its  just a cookie Â¬Â¬
<ubottu> Error: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<sebsebseb> _Groo_: there is a !cookie factoid for good helpers
<_Groo_> sebsebseb: i know i know, but he was suposed to know what a cookie is ;)
<BUGabundo> _Groo_: and how do I connect both ends?
<sebsebseb> _Groo_: you just called her a he
<sebsebseb> !gender
<ubottu> yes, I can confirm I am a female bot :)
<Ketsuban> I'm not sure "it's ported" is a solution. Sure, it turns "this is a useless feature because you're not running the same OS" into "this is a useless feature because you're not using the same client", but it's still a useless feature, and good luck convincing people Telepathy is useful, especially given the joke that is Empathy.
<Ketsuban> s/it's ported/it might be ported later/
<_Groo_> sebsebseb: shes a she?? oO
<sebsebseb> !gender
<arielCo> BUGabundo: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamachi#See_also
<_Groo_> !apologize
<sebsebseb> !sorry | _Groo_
<ubottu> _Groo_: It's ok, I am only a bot so I cannot stay mad at you. For apologising to humans though, take a read of http://mdzlog.alcor.net/2009/07/20/on-apologies/
<_Groo_> sebsebseb: thanks sebsebseb
<BUGabundo> arielCo: thanks
<arielCo> Wippien looks good
<sebsebseb> _Groo_: for what using !sorry ?
<BUGabundo> arielCo: GUI is win32 only. CLI requires unknow daemon to be run as root :\\
<BUGabundo> sebsebseb: _Groo_: play with bots on #ubuntu-bots . thanks
<Ketsuban> And I don't think I will ever be pleased with things like gnome-shell which threaten to turn my laptop into a dumb kiosk.
<BUGabundo> arielCo: n2n is in the repos :D
<_Groo_> gotta go, seeya another day
<arielCo> bye _Groo_
 * BUGabundo presses F11 on Ketsuban brower
<_Groo_> seeya all
<arielCo> BUGabundo: the homepage looks scary ;)
<BUGabundo> eheh full instrucntion set on home page
<BUGabundo> #hardcore
<Ketsuban> I fail to see what you're trying to prove. The only time I fullscreen a browser is when I'm trying to show something to my mother across the room and thus need to zoom in real close.
<_Groo_> gotta go, seeya another day
<sebsebseb> Ketsuban: I haven't tried Gnome Shell
<sebsebseb> yet
<sebsebseb> in fact I don't really know anything about it
<sebsebseb> I know there's a ppa that can be got for Karmic and I guess Lucid as well
<sebsebseb> and that things go a bit crazy or something when Gnome Shell is turned on
<bjsnider> sebsebseb, there are videos of gnome-shell being used that you can take a look at
<bjsnider> i'm using it right now so things can't be too crazy
<sebsebseb> bjsnider: that's a point,  videos
<sebsebseb> well seems some like it, and others aren't sure about it
<sebsebseb> bjsnider: your using it in what, Karmic Lucid?
<bjsnider> karmic
<Ketsuban> Then again, I also don't get the "waaaah people aren't using the notification area properly" stuff. How else is something like Liferea, which stays resident but doesn't constantly sit in your face doing nothing, supposed to hide?
<sebsebseb> Ketsuban: oh the notification area, they will be uhmm  well removing that for 10.04
<sebsebseb> and doing something else instead
<sebsebseb> I gave a link a little while ago
<sebsebseb> about the memenu
<arielCo> BUGabundo: okay, so you need a third machine to do what a Hamachi server would otherwise do
<BUGabundo> arielCo: yeah I gather that
<sebsebseb> Ketsuban: well memenu in 10.04, if it's ready in time
<Ketsuban> Yes, sebsebseb, I saw that. Funnily enough, feeds don't seem to be a "me menu" sort of thing - they're not social, and they're not networking. Also, I find amusement at the fact that they quote someone who made Gwibber, considering the one thing I couldn't do with Gwibber when I tried it was actually send a tweet.
<sebsebseb> Ketsuban: also Gnome 3 apparantly already has something like the memenu
<bjsnider> no it doesn't
<sebsebseb> bjsnider: ok
<sebsebseb> bjsnider: Gnome Shell doesn't have anything like it,  a guy put something  on IRC to me earlier...
<sebsebseb> ,but I guess he doesn't know what he is on about
<BUGabundo> arielCo: are you voluntering a machine so I can test?
<BUGabundo> :)
<sebsebseb> bjsnider: or whatever
<BUGabundo> arielCo: $ supernode -l PORT
<arielCo> hmm... I didn't think of that, but can do!
<arielCo> let me install the thing
<BUGabundo> its all its needed. even with just users space privs
<bjsnider> gnome-shell has a basic panel with a notification area like gnome-panel
<arielCo> oh, wait
<sebsebseb> bjsnider: Gnome Shell has nothing like it?
<BUGabundo> arielCo: PVT
 * sebsebseb remembers he should really see some videos of Gnome Shell
<arielCo> should I forward a port or something? I'm behind a router too.
<sebsebseb> well I didn't forget that
<sebsebseb> Ketsuban: oh right ok
<sebsebseb> Ketsuban: well I don't have a Twitter account yet
<sebsebseb> Ketsuban: and I haven't used whatever this is  Gwibber is
<sebsebseb> arielCo: Ubuntu and model kits going back to earlier, when it comes to install?  went on your link
<BUGabundo> arielCo: back ?
<hyperstream_> how can i get Lucid to display my remaining laptop battery life?
<BUGabundo> hyperstream you can't
<BUGabundo> it was dropped
<hyperstream_> it was functioning last night, closed the lappy went to bed opened it up, punched in my password and its gone..
<hyperstream_> rebooting brb
<hyperstream__> that fixed it
<hyperstream__> wierd
<bjsnider> BUGabundo, are you using the blob right now or nouveau?
<BUGabundo> blob
<i_is_broke> ok this is probably a real noobie question but im going to ask anyways, whats the difference in between the gnome terminal,lxterminal,and the konsole terminal?
<bjsnider> does it boot with plymouth in there?
<bjsnider> mbierl is apparently having some internet issues
<i_is_broke> yeah it looks like it.
<i_is_broke> i hate that when that happens.
<BUGabundo> bjsnider: yep
<BUGabundo> or at least I think so
<BUGabundo>  I removed splash
<bjsnider> i thought you needed a kms driver to use plymouth
<bjsnider> BUGabundo, which blob?
<BUGabundo> 185 I think
<BUGabundo> archive nvidia
<Bookman> how do I update from the command line.  I do not have x working?
<Bookman> update-manager -d does not work
<BUGabundo> Bookman: do-release-upgrade ?
<BUGabundo> or sudo aptitude update ; sudo aptitude safe-upgrade
<i_is_broke> well lets see what happens with the test box this time, upgrading kernel now..so this might get interesting again.
<BUGabundo> depends on you beeing upgrading distro, or running regular updates
<Bookman> OK, This has started the process.  I have a newly built computer with an old Ubuntu installation on the hard drive.  It did not boot properly, but I could get to the command line.  Will this upgrade correct all of the drivers and such?  I have no working CD/DVD or USB
<i_is_broke> well i dont know if it will fix it, but the way it sounds you dont have much of a choice other then a reinstall.
<bjsnider> Bookman, what old distro?
<Bookman> bjsnider, 9.04
<i_is_broke> hmm thats not that old
<bjsnider> well, that's not so old
<Bookman> No, but does not work all the same
<i_is_broke> yeah broke is still broke.
<bjsnider> it should install whatever the new distro is in its entirety, but There's many a slip 'twixt the cup and the lip
<i_is_broke> i have never had luck putting old systems on new computers that way..its just never been my luck.
<Bookman> Yeah, I might have to scrap this one.
<Bookman> Too bad, new motherboard, new cpu, new ram.
<i_is_broke> new video card as well?
<Bookman> Onboard
<i_is_broke> well that wouldnt mess with the cd/dvd rom or the usbs.
<bjsnider> what video chip?
<Bookman> Nope, none of my machines work with the usb/cd anymore since 9.10
<i_is_broke> thats a bus.
<i_is_broke> well no one can guarantee an upgrade, but like i said dont think you really have much choice other then a new install.have you got your data saved?
<i_is_broke> what chip set is in the computer?
<i_is_broke> intel?
<i_is_broke> and what was in the last one?
<Bookman> MSI K9N6PGM2
<Bookman> Last was too old to remember
<i_is_broke> lol
<i_is_broke> i have that kind of memory too..
<Bookman> Yup....
<i_is_broke> i was going to say if they was both the same thing then you might get real lucky but...
<i_is_broke> but you upgrade other computers and they did the same thing, and did you change parts on them too or just the upgrade"?
<Bookman> No, just upgrade
<Bookman> This one is unique
<i_is_broke> thats odd.
<Bookman> I might just toss it and buy a new machine
<bjsnider> Bookman, that board has an onboard nvidia gpu supported by the latest blobs
<Bookman> Yup
<i_is_broke> well i wouldnt toss it.
<Bookman> i_is_broke, I will just for personal satisfaction.  Building your own used to work.  Not so much anymore
<i_is_broke> i build all of mine.
<bjsnider> it does not have any purevideo technology so it would make a poor gaming system and poor media center
<Bookman> Hopefully not with 9.10
<i_is_broke> i have yet to buy a complete system.
<Bookman> Hmm, I built all my own before with Windows.  No issues.
<Bookman> This is a nightmare
<bjsnider> you can put a pci-express graphics card in that and make it better
<bjsnider> even a cheap one like an 8200-8400 that is practically being given away would give you better graphics and vdpau
<bjsnider> and that's one step closer to world domination
<Bookman> If I could boot my machine, that would be a big step closer to domination
<i_is_broke> well if it was me and i was wanting to run linux on a new machine i would read about it before i bought the parts to make sure they was compatible...sheesh..doesnt take rocket science to figure that one out.
<genii> !hcl
<ubottu> For lists of supported hardware on Ubuntu see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HardwareSupport - To help debugging and improving hardware detection, see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingHardwareDetection
<genii> also !laptop
<ubuntu> anyone here?
<ubuntu> ??
<genii> Yes, we're here
<zen_> #ubuntu-cn
<ubuntu> Hi ... I upgraded to the alpha version of lucid lynx , and my computer wouldn't boot anymore .... get a message saying "Segmentation fault" .... would someone know how to fix this?
<ubuntu> genii: short of reinstalling, that is ... I've a lot of data, and backing it all up before reinstalling would be a pain
<RAOF> ubuntu: If you've got a lot of data that you don't want to lose, go back to 9.10.
<ubuntu> RAOF: yep, how do I do that?
<RAOF> ubuntu: By reinstalling.
<genii> Yes, there is no "downgrade"
<ubuntu> RAOF: wouldn't it format the drive and loose all my data
<RAOF> It's technically possible to downgrade, but (a) there's no guarantee that it'll work, (b) you're quite likely to end up with something that's not quite 9.10 in crashy ways, and (c) it's moderately difficult.
<RAOF> ubuntu: Not necessarily; Ubuntu hasn't been formatting /home for at least a couple of releases.
<ubuntu> RAOF: oh really!? so if I just reinstall 9.10 , there's a chance I can keep all my data
<RAOF> Yes; I would, however, back it up.
<RAOF> I'm fairly sure that the default is to not format anything, and preserve /home.
<RAOF> Be careful in the installer, though :)
<ubuntu> RAOF: ok :) I'll try ... to be sure, there's no hope of recovering the lynx alpha?
<RAOF> Oh, there probably is.  But alpha-1 is not the time to jump in if your system has to work & not destroy your important data.
<ubuntu> RAOF .. well, looks like I'm backing up my data anyway ... so after I've done that, i might also try making lynx work
<sebsebseb> ubuntu: unless your pretty experienced with Ubuntu, it's probably best for you not to bother with Lucid for proper useage early, untill at least the beta, if you can't wait untill the release candidate or final
<sebsebseb> ubuntu: plus all your data should be backed up, when testing it,  but really it should be backed up anyway, hard disks can just fail for example
<ubuntu> sebsebseb: ok
<sebsebseb> ubuntu: Why did you go to Lucid anyway?
<genii> Probably "because it was there"
<bjsnider> RAOF, how is it that plymouth would work without a kms driver?
<ubuntu> sebsebseb: well, was just curious to see .. I'd previously upgraded to kaola in beta, and it wasn't a *big* problem (though I had some booting issues there too)
<sebsebseb> genii: yeah, but  Jaunty is still there, and loads of them aren't putting that back on :)
<RAOF> bjsnider: Because we load, at worst, vga16fb so there's always a framebuffer?
<sebsebseb> ubuntu: I have done that before myself a few times,  got it early,  used as my OS,  and then got issues before the beta, that stayed there
<RAOF> bjsnider: This is also, incidentally, why Intel died recently; vga16fb was taking the framebuffer & confusing everything.
<bjsnider> i've got a guy emailing me using the bob and not getting pas an error at plymouth
<sebsebseb> ubuntu: I kept on thinking how I would virtual machine test instead, and now I have started to a little bit
<bjsnider> he says the problem was "a bad mountall from the ubuntu-desktop PPA"
<ubuntu> sebsebseb: raof: :) yeah, now that u mention it, its a smarter thing to try
<sebsebseb> also if I was going to put on like that, I woudn't  do it untill like alpha 4 by the earliest, but for people who are going to do that,  on a machine that isn't just a test machine, it's best to wait untill at least the beta really
<RAOF> bjsnider: No idea; none of my systems actually lack kms :)
<sebsebseb> ubuntu: anyway this time round I will be virtual machine testing,  but that's only, because I have put on another distro on this computer
<sebsebseb> otherwise I would have probably done like before, even though,  I would have told myself not to
<DanaG> Actually, I've had to block vga16fb.
<DanaG> It breaks even uvesafb.
<DanaG> The "bind if nothing else has bound yet" happens BEFORE anything else has a CHANCE to bind!
<DanaG> So it says, screw you, I'm claiming the device!
<DanaG> And gives me a screen full of garbage.
<ubuntu> sebsebseb: lesson learnt :)
<sebsebseb> ubuntu: the noticeable end user feature don't start coming in untill like alpha 3 or something
<ubuntu> sebsebseb: I see
<sebsebseb> ubuntu: well for this release.  not got the scheduled in front of me.   anyway the beta will have them
<sebsebseb> ubuntu: have a look at the release scheduled :)
<ubuntu> sebsebseb: yep
<ubuntu> sebsebseb: RAOF: thanks guys .. looks like its going to be a few gruelling hours of backup work .. see u later
<sebsebseb> ubuntu: hold on
<sebsebseb> ubuntu: did you ever do 9.04?
<ubuntu> I think I did
<sebsebseb> I much prefer it to 9.10 :)
<ubuntu> :) i don't remember much from it
<sebsebseb> 9.04 as in Jaunty as in the April release
<sebsebseb> Jaunty Jackalope
<ubuntu> sebsebseb: 9.10 has been buggy for me ... the screensaver program hanged my system many times
<sebsebseb> ubuntu: oh?
<sebsebseb> well
<sebsebseb> most of the screensavers that used to come by default in previous versions of Ubuntu
<sebsebseb> don't come with Karmic
<sebsebseb> ubuntu: So why did you get Lucid early?  because you thought it would solve some problems maybe?
<ubuntu> sebsebseb: not really, was just curious .. wanted to scratch am itch :)
<sebsebseb> ok
<sebsebseb> ubuntu: here's a little tip by the way when it comes to getting ISO's.  md5sum/sha1sum or both your ISO, to make sure you have a good download,  if you get from the torrent it's probably ok
<sebsebseb> ubuntu: really easy to do the check in the terminal
 * sebsebseb Got reminded of when I put Gutsy on, way to early hmm/hrm, (or maybe it was feisty)
<DanaG> hmm, in kde 4.4, how do you bind a hotkey to a panel launcher?
<DanaG> "icon properties" has no place for shortcut-key.
<z987k> I'm having problems with ls
<z987k> it hangs every time I give ls to a large directory
<soee> hi
<janne> Does anyone have a broken Nautilus?
<bittin^> Hello anyone know how i do a list off my installed Debian packages with dpkg into a textfile?
<Michalxo> dpkg -l >> textfile?
<bittin^> http://bittin.linuxuser.se/HilleLinuxpackages.txt got it to work :)
<Michalxo> bittin^, not working for me
<bittin^> its http://bittin.linuxuser.se/HilleLinuxPackages.txt
<BUGabundo> olÃ¡
<delight> sftp is not working for me in dolphin kde sc 4.4 beta 1 ... is this only happening in lucid or is this an kde 4.4 beta 1 problem ?
<BUGabundo> delight: known
<BUGabundo> ask yofel for the bug
<BUGabundo> battery widget in gnome is broken
<BUGabundo> as soon as I unplug power it says zero % :(
<BluesKaj> howdy folks , konversation is using upwards of 75% of cpu again . I wonder if others are seeing this too
<BUGabundo> hi BluesKaj
<BluesKaj> hey BUGabundo
<BUGabundo> how do I tell dovecot to not start at startup ? what's the current "user easy way" to do that?
<BUGabundo> since we now use vsysinit is there a UI for it?
<delight> BUGabundo: known but is it an upstream kde or an lucid problem ?
<yofel> delight: bug 496208 - lucid problem
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 496208 in kdebase-runtime "sftp:// protocol no longer works in KDE 4.4 on lucid" [Undecided,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/496208
<BUGabundo> there you go
<yofel> hi BUGabundo
<BUGabundo> now, who can tell me what is availble to manage startup services?
<BUGabundo> do would inet.d tools work ?
<BUGabundo> s/would/old/
<yofel> that's what I was wondering too, some upstart scripts have runlevel references, but I don't get how that works now...
<BUGabundo> I need a GUI for dummies
<BUGabundo> I want to close down ALL my inicial services, I have installed and only use on occation
<BUGabundo> a search in synaptic reveals only ONE tool for it
<BUGabundo> and its startup
<BUGabundo> lol
<BUGabundo> wb nhandler
<penguin42> BUGabundo: I was asking yesterday on #ubuntu about this, since I was fighting with ssh, and it seems there isn't an equivalent of update-rc.d for upstart and there isn't something that integrates the two
<BUGabundo> penguin42: :(((((
<penguin42> BUGabundo: This seems nuts since you somehow have to magically know which one a particular service is
<BUGabundo> ehe
<BUGabundo> well guess ill go hardcore
<BUGabundo> and manually change links in RCs
<penguin42> BUGabundo: Well for the rc.x dirs there's always update-rc.d but that won't help you for upstart
<yofel> BUGabundo: i fear you'll have to edit the 'start/stop on ...' parts of the init scripts...
<BluesKaj> one can use the rcconf app to make rc*d links easier
<BluesKaj> !rcconf
<BUGabundo> errr
<BluesKaj> the bot doesn't have any info
<BUGabundo> each seem worse
<joaopinto> BUGabundo, for regular rc service you can use sysv-rc-conf, for upstart afaik you will need to disable them manually
<joaopinto> it's becoming a common complain these days, services management
<penguin42> it seems odd, other distros have had a little services dialog for many many years
<joaopinto> those tools are not upstart aware
<BUGabundo> right
<penguin42> yeh sure
<BluesKaj> that kpackagekit service daemon is a pita ...first to be disabled on my setup
<BluesKaj> and why the powerdevil is default on my desktop is another
<BluesKaj> anyway , time for the daily walk ..BBL
<bjsnider> joaopinto, is there a gui tool under development to resolve that issue?
<joaopinto> bjsnider, I remember reading something about the gnome utility needing to worked, but I don't know if anyone is working on that
<BUGabundo> there
<BUGabundo> rc2 and rc5 hacked up
<BUGabundo> with losts of 'k's now :D
<nperry> When did plymouth replace usplash
<nperry> Cant seem to a thread on forums
<soee> hi
<BUGabundo> soee: hi
<dupondje> any list with planned changes for Lucid ?
<joaopinto> I hate not having fglrx :\
<BUGabundo> joaopinto: :p
<BUGabundo> get nvidia
<BUGabundo> dupondje: check technical overview wiki page
<BUGabundo> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LucidLynx
<bjsnider> joaopinto, you mean in the sense that it doesn't support the latest instable kernel? or you have old hardware?
<joaopinto> bjsnider,  latest kernel
<billybigrigger> BUGabundo, how goes it?
<BUGabundo> billybigrigger: head bashing with rssh
<BUGabundo> and you ?
<billybigrigger> thinking of taking the dive into +1 today
<BUGabundo> eheh billybigrigger
<BUGabundo> we welcome you with arms wide open
<BUGabundo> X is broken though
<billybigrigger> the x.10 cycles are no good for me, i'm not around my computer much this time of year
 * BUGabundo stupid rssh
<BUGabundo> billybigrigger: why so ?
<billybigrigger> because it's winter here in canada, and this is my busy season for work
<billybigrigger> oil rigs are just starting to fire up so ya...not home too much
<billybigrigger> nv driver is totally broken i see from the notes...have to revert to vesa? bah
<billybigrigger> ^^^ no good
<crimsun> if you want Xv or 3D, yes, "nv" is broken.
<crimsun> if you only care about 2D, "nv" is fine.
<BUGabundo> billybigrigger: ppa seems to be in better shape
<BUGabundo> I must be doing something very stupid, or the docs are wrong... :(
<BUGabundo> I've set the user shell to use rssh, set the properties in rssh.conf for that user, and it still wonder around my system :(
<billybigrigger> still wonders around your system? so what, are you trying to chroot that shell user or what?
<BUGabundo> billybigrigger: trying to have it chroot to /usr/local/chroot/
<BUGabundo> but with SSH
<BUGabundo> maybe I'm reading this wrong
<BUGabundo> and rssh only does scp
<billybigrigger> hah, brb, need to go tow mom's car out of the back alley
 * billybigrigger loves snow
<BUGabundo> billybigrigger: I bet she loves to have you as a son :D
<joaopinto> BUGabundo, there are better options ot rssh, like an apparmored ssh profile
<BUGabundo> tell me then :D
<BUGabundo> if I'm going to expose access to my machine to "someone" I rather have it confined
<crimsun> does "someone" absolutely need a shell?
<joaopinto> BUGabundo, http://penguindroppings.wordpress.com/2009/09/09/serving-up-sftp-and-apparmor/
<BUGabundo> crimsun: "I" do
<BUGabundo> I'll be accessing this machine from another place
<BUGabundo> but only to browse a few docs and file dirs
<BUGabundo> thanks joaopinto
<BUGabundo> some one did a bad math on the battery widget
<BUGabundo> mine goes from 0.0 to 1.0
<BUGabundo> its currently at 9.5
<BUGabundo> lol
<BUGabundo> I guess its x10 :D
<crimsun> that sounds like a combination of devicekit-power not scaling the information and/or the batter widget not handling out-of-scale
<joaopinto> is it just me or gdm ramdomly fails to start ?
<joaopinto> frequenrely I need to manually start it from a tty
<BUGabundo> joaopinto: not here
<joaopinto> hum, odd, it might be X driver related
<BUGabundo> crimsun: I jumped to a TTY, jumped back to X, and lost all sound. how can I restore it ?
<crimsun> not nearly enough info.
<BUGabundo> :(
<crimsun> what does ck-list-sessions give you?
<BUGabundo> ok just tell me what's the best way to restart it
<crimsun> don't paste it here
<crimsun> don't pastebin it
<crimsun> privmsg it
<BUGabundo> crimsun: im
<sebsebseb> hi
<slacker_nl> will 10.04 lts convert legacy grub to grub2?
<XiXaQ> karmic uses grub2. What do you mean?
<yofel> I think he means on upgrade
<slacker_nl> yes
<Ketsuban> Hm. Rhythmbox crashes when trying to display a status icon.
<slacker_nl> I have karmic with legacy grub
<sebsebseb> slacker_nl: it might be converted on upgrade, but probably not
<sebsebseb> slacker_nl: also Grub legacy is fine really
<slacker_nl> debian upgraded from legacy to grub2 if you switch from stable to testing
<sebsebseb> slacker_nl: well it might happen then
<sebsebseb> ,but Grub Legacy is fine really
<slacker_nl> sebsebseb: i know
<crimsun> BUGabundo: line 41 of your paste. D: module-udev-detect.c: /dev/snd/controlC0 is accessible: no
<crimsun> BUGabundo: if PA can't control the mixer, it will bail that card (for good reason)
<BUGabundo> log out, login, crimsun, and all got fixed
<BUGabundo> its just proves I can't avoid reboot in alphas :D
<crimsun> BUGabundo: I suspect some app you're using refuses to play nicely with PA
<crimsun> Knotify?
<BUGabundo> exaile most prob
<BUGabundo> it was after it, prob started
<Ketsuban> The inability to put Rhythmbox in the notification area is annoying.
<crimsun> isn't that a plugin?
<Ketsuban> Yes, but when I try to use it it either doesn't make a notification icon or crashes.
<Ketsuban> I tick the box and I get this warning in the console: ** (rhythmbox:1837): WARNING **: Unable to create Ayatana Watcher proxy!  Could not get owner of name 'org.ayatana.indicator.application': no such name
<Ketsuban> And then I untick and tick it again and the application crashes with this message: * ERROR **: Failed to register GObject with DBusConnection
<BluesKaj> openssh is broken on my setup , I can ssh into my other linuxbox in the cli , but that restricts access to displaying the files I'm after...any ideas
<BluesKaj> ?
<BluesKaj> oops
<BUGabundo> anyone wants to package Retroshare ?
<BUGabundo> bjsnider: ^^^^^
<bjsnider> BUGabundo, what the #$%^& is retroshare?
<BUGabundo> networkless IM and file transfer app
<BUGabundo> they a deb... why not a PPA ?
<BUGabundo> guess ill popup on their #
<bjsnider> is it in upstream deian?
<bjsnider> debian i mean
<BUGabundo> couldn't find it
<bjsnider> how mature is it?
<BUGabundo> dunno
<BUGabundo> just learned about it 4 min ago
<BUGabundo> while reading N2N docs
<bjsnider> you just learned about it 4 minutes ago and you already need it packaged?
<bjsnider> how can IM and file transfer be done without a network?
<BUGabundo> N2N :D
<BUGabundo> not networkless, but serverless
<BUGabundo> sorry
<ActionParsnip> hey all, is there a way to tell devede where mplayer is?
<bjsnider> devede?
<ActionParsnip> its in my $PATH but devede still says it can't find it
<ActionParsnip> !info devede
<ubottu> devede (source: devede): simple application to create Video DVDs. In component multiverse, is optional. Version 3.15.2-0ubuntu1 (lucid), package size 1898 kB, installed size 3768 kB
<bjsnider> find out where it's looking and create a symlink
<bjsnider> but it's pretty broken if it can't find it in your path
<bjsnider> BUGabundo, that sounds a bit like bittorrent with magnet links
<bjsnider> or dht
<BUGabundo> yes, it uses DHT
<bjsnider> just finished packaging vdpauinfo for the first time. but this thing should be folded in to libvdpau
<oldude67> well i noticed today that i should of rebooted the computer yesterday as i did today and lost x again and had to do a update to get it back...what was they working on nv or nouveau?
<oldude67> what is the irc help channel as well?
<BUGabundo> bjsnider: can I test that?
<bjsnider> hold on a few minutes while i get it into the lucid section
<bjsnider> BUGabundo, it depends on libvdpau1, which you might not have
<BUGabundo> :(
<BUGabundo> or are filled with good suprises
<BluesKaj> ActionParsnip, devede looks for ffmpeg and usually it's in /usr/bin , bt try /usr/local/bin
<ActionParsnip> BluesKaj: it only moans about mplayer, i'll check it
<BluesKaj> ActionParsnip, they all use ffmpeg
<ActionParsnip> yeah its there, i symlinked it
 * ActionParsnip installs ffmpeg
<BluesKaj> or you copy it to usr/bin
<BluesKaj> even
<ActionParsnip> i'm just gonna comment the line to check if mplayer is installed
<ActionParsnip> its there the check just fails
<ActionParsnip> i'll log a bug when i get it nailed
<BluesKaj> ffmpeg is a very easy to use cli app ...it has a lot of uses
<ActionParsnip> i'm making a dvd iso from avis
<BluesKaj> check the ffmpeg man , you.ll see how to dvd from avi
<BluesKaj> brb
<bjsnider> why do such a thing?
<bjsnider> set-top players can play avi files
<ActionParsnip> im after chapters etc as its multiple wrestling matches
<BluesKaj> avimerge ia another tool i use to join avi files together to make on large file for dvd
<BluesKaj> one large file
<ActionParsnip> yeah but when its mukltiple matches, chapters are hugely advantageous
<BluesKaj> wrestling ...uhmm okaay
<ActionParsnip> yeya boi :D
<Amaranth> BluesKaj: Plus some people would rather click 3 buttons instead of typing 200 hard to remember characters :)
 * Amaranth remembers making DVDs by writing out XML files by hand
<ActionParsnip> if theres an app which can handle chapter creation then let me know. I use CLI more than gui stuff
<BUGabundo> Amaranth: ehe
<bjsnider> BUGabundo, ready for testing
<BluesKaj> Amaranth, ffmpeg or avimerge ?
<Amaranth> *shrug*
<Amaranth> oh, ffmpeg, right :)
<BUGabundo> sure why not
<BluesKaj> ActionParsnip, avidemux ?
<bjsnider> BUGabundo, do you have libvdpau1 or not?
<BUGabundo> checking
<Amaranth> well, ffmpeg is easy enough to use but then you have to use dvdauthor too which takes an XML file and spits out a folder that you then have to pack into an ISO file which you then have to burn
<BUGabundo>   Installed: (none)
<BUGabundo>   libvdpau1: Conflicts: nvidia-libvdpau which is a virtual package.
<BUGabundo> The following packages are BROKEN:  libvdpau1
<bjsnider> right. there is no longer an nvidia-libvdpau package
<BluesKaj> Amaranth, why make an iso , it's not necessary
<BUGabundo> The following actions will resolve these dependencies:
<BUGabundo> Remove the following packages:
<BUGabundo> nvidia-glx-185
<Amaranth> BluesKaj: well, no
<BUGabundo> bjsnider: removing my driver is not a good idea :D
<Amaranth> BluesKaj: but it's handy to have if I want to burn more than one copy
<bjsnider> BUGabundo,  the drivers in the ppa work
<BUGabundo> last time I tried that, I had to manually scp debs in an revert X
<BUGabundo> so I have to upgrade to PPA 190 ?
<bjsnider> you can use any of the 3
<BluesKaj> Amaranth, I haven't used dvdauthor for a while , since using tovid to make dvds when devede was too unstable to be reliable
<BluesKaj> Amaranth, a new to me app that uses a gui and if you don't mind a java written app, then Varsha might fit some needs, http://varsha.sourceforge.net/
<BluesKaj> my problem is fixing openssh ...seems to be broken using the network wizard , which I prefer for displaying files on our linuxboxes
<Amaranth> BluesKaj: ugly :/
<_Groo_> hi/2 all
<komputes> _Groo_: hi
<_Groo_> hi komputes
#ubuntu+1 2010-12-20
<BUGabundo> night guys
<dw-> keep up the great work
<juk> where did apps from system tray gone?
<juk> like doking dictionaries and stuff only transmission is left, and ibus
<juk> whole gnome got messed up
<juk> nevermind goldendict is stopped stardict's madness
<coz_> nvidia-current is now held back ?  oy :)
<joaopinto> hi
<DanaG> Okay, so I upgraded my tablet to natty, and it wiped out ALL my compiz settings AND my gnome panel!
<DanaG> So now i get this lame unity panel thing that doesn't even have a clock!
<DanaG> And the gnome menu opens a nautilus window to /usr/share/applications, instead of doing the cool thing it used to do...
<DanaG> So now I have 12 nautilus windows open to the same place.
<DanaG> And it won't even let me use the freaking cube with Unity!
<DanaG> Why in the world does that bar absolutely, positively have to have the desktops SLIDE?
<IdleOne> Welcome to the new way of doing stuff.
<IdleOne> so you end up losing your windows also
 * IdleOne closed 4 firefox windows earlier. I wasn't using any of them
<IdleOne> and yeah that applications thing bugs me also
<joaopinto> is there a known problem with the livecd installer from 18th ?
<jcastro> joaopinto: I can't get mine to work either (in testdrive)
<joaopinto> jcastro, it fails during the user creation phase right ?
<jcastro> no, mine fails when creating the file system part
<joaopinto> actually after 2 tries I am not sure was at the same place
<jcastro> I was just going to wait for the next spin
<joaopinto> I was planning to play with Unity this holidays :(
<joaopinto> the error message presents the link to report a bug, which is hard to use because it doesn't allow to copy or open a browser from it
<joaopinto> looking at /var/log/installer didn't show anything meaningful either :(
<joaopinto> we need real persistent usb installs :(
<rye_> hi people, is anybody else experiencing huge performance issues while running ubuntu vm in natty using kvm?
<F3RR1S>  /join #ubuntu
<F3RR1S> oops
<F3RR1S> I need help porting my video from laptop to a tv via s-video cable
<F3RR1S> is there an easy way to do this?
<apadox> Hello, how can i update from Maverick to Natty from console?
<Some_Person> It may be too early to ask this, but I'll do it anyway: will issues involving major crashes likely be fixed in natty?
<bjsnider> no, we plan on creating as many showstoppers as possible to screw with our user base
<Some_Person> no, seriously
<bjsnider> our theory is they will become deeply resentful of us, but we need to actually conduct a test to prove it
<bjsnider> we never assume anything
<Some_Person> I want a serious answer
<bjsnider> ask a serious question
<Some_Person> I'm having major issues involving random system crashes in maverick. Will this likely be fixed in natty?
<Some_Person> It's a simple "yes/no/don't know" question
<bjsnider> have you submitted a bug?
<charlie-tca> bjsnider: +1 lol
<Some_Person> I'm not sure what to put in the bug report other than "it crashes and I have to reboot"
<Some_Person> there's no obvious indication of what the problem is
<bjsnider> now we're getting somewhere
<bjsnider> just submit the bug and you will receive instructions
<bjsnider> they can't fix it if they don't know it's broken
<billybigrigger> where is the system menu in unity?
<charlie-tca> Some days it is accessed by clicking the ubuntu logo in the left corner
<charlie-tca> but you might have to go through nautilus, to  /usr/share/applications   and find the application to click on there
<BUGabundo> o/
<charlie-tca> hello, BUGabundo
<charlie-tca> Are things any better today?
<BUGabundo> not really
<BUGabundo> nasty day at work
<BUGabundo> and personally not my best days :(
<charlie-tca> Sorry to hear that :-(
<BUGabundo> at least I saved my docs
<BUGabundo> re-mirroring to external server what I have
<BUGabundo> its only 20GBs
<billybigrigger> any way to kill unity and revert back to gnome-panel?
<ior3k> billybigrigger: login with the Ubuntu Classic Desktop session
<billybigrigger> roger
<billybigrigger> ahhhh there we go :)
#ubuntu+1 2010-12-21
<coz_> hey all
<histo> ughh can't htink of a domain name
<Andre_Gondim> I lost the right click on firefox behaivor, is it normal?
<magn3ts> update manager doesn't use app indicator ?
<Daekdroom> ??daily
<Daekdroom> !daily
<ubottu> Daily builds of the CD images of the current development version of Ubuntu are available at http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily/current/ and http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/current/
<wzssyqa> natty supports ps3 now?
<bazhang> wzssyqa, supports in what way
<wzssyqa> bazhang: no idea, but there are  alternative iso in http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily/current/
<wzssyqa> powerpc+ps3
<bazhang> wzssyqa, I guess for those who have not updated firmware to eliminate "other OS" then
<wzssyqa> bazhang: maybe,
<wzssyqa> now days ,with cuda ,opencl etc, the ps3 has not be so amaizing
<bazhang> wzssyqa, not sure there, sorry, first I've seen/heard of it
<gnomefreak> i would think by the time of release it should support ps3 but i got rid of my ps3 so not 100% sure
<gnomefreak> preffered applications needs to be fixed still :(
<dnivra> how much space would be needed to install natty? would 11GB suffice?
<yofel> certainly, the base system only needs ~2GB
<dnivra> yofel, thanks! i plan to install some apps and try to find/fix bugs if possible.
<gnomefreak> finding bugs will be easy
<Pici> iirc the ps3 builds were stopped. I thought I saw an email about that.
<Pici> wzssyqa, gnomefreak: You may want to take a look at this for ps3 related information; https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2010-December/000797.html
<dnivra> j #ubuntu-offtopic
<dnivra> oops
<dnivra> gnomefreak, sorry router got reset.
<dnivra> i hope to fix some as well; not just find :)
<gnomefreak> i cant usemy browser ye, updates keep causing it to stop loading pages
<gnomefreak> thats what i get for not turning on pc in weeks/month
<gnomefreak> be back in about an hour while updates finish
<gnomefreak> i lost my terminal menus :/
<gnomefreak> oh i see
<gnomefreak> thats kid of an odd place to put them
<gnomefreak> s/kid/kind
<Pici> gnomefreak: global menu confusion?
<gnomefreak> yeah
<gnomefreak> why does the top panel only hold 1 app at a time. i have to use ctrl+alt+tab to change apps
 * Pici shrugs, hasn't upgraded yet
<zniavre_> can you work on few apps in the same time ?
<gnomefreak> you  can but top panel only holds one app at a time. it isnt an easy point and click to change app views
<gnomefreak> example i have terminal and browser open. terminal is on top panel atm. the browser doesnt show until i use ctrl+alt+tab
<gnomefreak> and my weather applet is gone
<gnomefreak> seems i cant add it either
<gnomefreak> looks great just not practical for end user
<gnomefreak> ok so how do i turn off compiz. change background menu doesnt have it and i dont have any menu items (applications,admin,system)
<charlie-tca> Try using "classic desktop" session at login? I don't think that has to have compiz enabled
<gnomefreak> still doesnt fix the problems with menu i dont think but be back in a few ill try it
<gnomefreak> ok clasic looks normal, however in the apperance dialog still doesnt give me a tab for visual(compiz menu)
 * gnomefreak smoke,think
<sagaci> ah bugger, another month and a half until 11.04 alpha 2
<joaopinto> tried Unity yesterday, I am somehow disappointed
<joaopinto> I just played for a few minutes, but apart from the sidebar launcher which is not novell what does it bring ?
<sagaci> global context menu bar
<gnomefreak> sagaci: define that please. other than the side bar there is no system,appl,places menus ect..
<gnomefreak> 1 app in task bar at a time as well
 * gnomefreak in classic atm
<gnomefreak> dont feel bad i cant even use the 2.6.37-10 kernel
<gnomefreak> is nvidia-current-modaliases needed?
<bjsnider> that package has been deprecated
<gnomefreak> bjsnider: thanks
<gnomefreak> maybe the kernel will get past plymouth now
 * gnomefreak back to looking for a menu
<gnomefreak> it seems unity is only partially implemented from what http://www.ubuntu.com/testing/natty/alpha1#Ubuntu%20Desktop%20Edition says
<Spirits-Sight> anyone having issue with the main menu button bring up a folder with the links to apps / other stuff?
<Spirits-Sight> also issue with telepathy chat window not allowing more then one line of information and not showing user list? on right of chat window?
<Spirits-Sight> and as type window gets bigger instead of the input feild getting bigger?
<joaopinto> isn't the main menu expect to bring the apps folder ? isn't that a design decision :P ?
<Spirits-Sight> joaopinto I don't think so
<Spirits-Sight> its suppose to be a nice dark user interface with a search feild at the top
<IdleOne> Spirits-Sight: nope that is in UNE
<IdleOne> in Unity Desktop it brings up the applications folder
<IdleOne> I prefer the UNE way. sleeker.
<Spirits-Sight> but UDE and UNE are going to become one I read somewhere
<joaopinto> after a few minutes testing the only thing  I like from unity is the global menu
<Spirits-Sight> globa menu is the one button right?
<joaopinto> the global menu makes it easier for my parents to locate things :D
<joaopinto> is the menu on the top bar
<joaopinto> for all apps
<joaopinto> instead of the menu over the window
<Spirits-Sight> so this is not in UDE yet ? becaue it brings up the folder instead
<Spirits-Sight> I like UDE  I like having the bar on the left side, I wish it had when bring mouse over / click show the windows open for that app
<joaopinto> Spirits-Sight, I am talking about the menu you see on every application, not about the "Applications" menu
<joaopinto> the menu is now shown on the top bar
<Spirits-Sight> oo yes sorry got it now :-) mind slow : -) did not know that was the name of that,  I like that alot :-)
<joaopinto> of the display, not of the window
<joaopinto> :)
<Spirits-Sight> I wish that was already across the board but I know its being developed :-)
<Spirits-Sight> are u having any issue with the chat client (default)
<joaopinto> I don't use empathy
<joaopinto> and I am not yet using natty, the installer is falling on me :\
<Spirits-Sight> oo sorry to hear that :(
<Spirits-Sight> what u use for chat client?
<Spirits-Sight> does it interface into the system like empathy?
<Spirits-Sight> brb restart system :-) hopefully some things are fixed
<Spirits-Sight> ok I am back, did u see my question?
<Spirits-Sight> anyone having issue with empathy window (chat) getting bigger as you type instead of the field getting taller
<Spirits-Sight> also I get the issue of: No system tray detected on this system. Unable to start, exiting. ???
<SamruaiAlba> Hello.  How can I get the Broadcom 94318MPG wireles card working under Natty?
<SamruaiAlba> Adys, know Nysile?
<histo> ughh natty command line virtualbox guest boots to black screen trying to trouble shoot
<charlie-tca> is it working again in natty?
<charlie-tca> histo: might be bug 691555
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 691555 in linux (Ubuntu) "VirtualBox not compatible with CONFIG_DEBUG_SET_MODULE_RONX [STAGING]" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/691555
<histo> charlie-tca: yeap
<BUGabundo> o/
<Ian_Corne> o/
 * charlie-tca waves
<BUGabundo> don't you love when you set the CPU to powersave and it auto sets to ondemand?
<BUGabundo> at least it's a little better then setting performance on boot and no throttling back
<BUGabundo> # dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/mmcblk0p1 ibs=100M
<Amaranth> BUGabundo: Why would you use powersave? It doesn't do what the name implies
<BUGabundo> Amaranth: I know very well
<BUGabundo> I've been reading on cpu gobernors for years
<BUGabundo> I know who it works
<Amaranth> Personally I think they should just have ondemand and performance, not sure why they keep the others around
<BUGabundo> but this laptop BURNs a bit, and has little battery, and I'm bare naked legs
<Amaranth> Ah, you're using it as thermal management
<BUGabundo> I do miss Interactive... I have that on android
<Amaranth> I wish we had a separate knob for that
<BUGabundo> and you can notice the difference to ondemand
<Amaranth> My palm pre has screenstate, useful in that specific device
<Amaranth> I'm guessing interactive is similar
<BUGabundo> Amaranth: interactive ramps up away faster, dropping right after that
<BUGabundo> awesome for user interaction
<Amaranth> ah, screenstate just ramps from min to max speed depending on if the screen is on
<Amaranth> Unless you've got it plugged in, then it runs low speed because charging plus overclocking = overheating
<BUGabundo> I OC my android HTC Desire HD 50%
<BUGabundo> from 1GHz to 1.5
<BUGabundo> stable with no temp change :D
<maurer_> In classic desktop mode, alt-tab will occasionally crash compiz. Is this a known issue? Is there a workaround?
<BUGabundo> lucky you
<BUGabundo> I can't even get compiz to start
<maurer_> (the workaround I've been using is to switch to a VT and restart it with DISPLAY=:0 compiz, but this is super awkward.
<BUGabundo> and Amaranth went underground now :P
<BUGabundo> Ian_Corne: http://android-pt.com/android-gingerbread-231-on-desirehd
<Ian_Corne> yeh yeh, I'm stuck with my milestone
<Ian_Corne> :p
<Ian_Corne> had to reset it today, I wasn't getting any msgs for about a month now
<Ian_Corne> and email stopped working too
<BUGabundo> lol
<BUGabundo> what rom?
<Ian_Corne> default!
<patdk-wk> people run stock?
<BUGabundo> eewwww
<BUGabundo> put CM on that baby
<BUGabundo> 2.2.1
<nperry> People use stock?
<BUGabundo> some do
<BUGabundo> don't know why
<BUGabundo> but hey, they are free to do so
<charlie-tca> hm, If I can't get xubuntu to install from the daily images, how am I going to break it?
<BUGabundo> one of the admins of our android site, has a Nexus One, unrooted and stock
<Ian_Corne> BUGabundo: milestone is different :(
<BUGabundo> so what?
<BUGabundo> want a link? or you know google?
<BUGabundo> even milestone is rootable
<BUGabundo> has been for months
<Ian_Corne> Rootable doesn't mean it's flashable
<patdk-wk> my droid2 is rootable and flashable
<patdk-wk> as soon as a rootkit came out for it, mine was done
<patdk-wk> so much better battery life now
<BUGabundo> http://android.doshaska.net/cm6 http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=784750
<Ian_Corne> droid is different then milestone
<BUGabundo> good bye Ian_Corne. see you tomorrow  :p
<Ian_Corne> I'm not doing that now :p
<BUGabundo> DO IT
<BUGabundo> [12 dec 2010]CyanogenMod 6.1 for Milestone (2.2.1)
<Ian_Corne> I'll do it friday
<patdk-wk> that way you can't talk to family for christmas?
<BUGabundo> enouth offtopic :P
<BUGabundo> everyone move to #android-root or #cyanogenmod
<patdk-wk> where is my natty-rom?
<Ian_Corne> :D
<Ian_Corne> ?daily
<Ian_Corne> booh
<patdk-wk> I don't thnk it would boot on my phone :)
<Ian_Corne> Probably not :p
<BUGabundo> humm
<BUGabundo> I have yet to put ubuntu on one of my androids
<BUGabundo> toooo lazy for it
<Ian_Corne> and too useles? :p
<patdk-wk> man, why is my computer going 100mbit again :(
<Ian_Corne> aha, I've had reports of that too
<Ian_Corne> And I've had it myself too
<maurer_> Out of curiosity, do people know whether ubuntu is considering "Classic" mode a critical feature for natty's release? Given how long so much has been broken, I'm wondering how much they intend on fixing this portion.
<BUGabundo> when does one know DD has come to an end of the device?
<BUGabundo> dmesg shows nothing
<maurer_> dd stops when it hits the end of the device.
<BUGabundo> no it doesn't
<BUGabundo> lol
<BUGabundo> no on emmc
<maurer_> emmc?
<maurer_> I could have sworn I'd done dd if=/dev/foo of=backuplocation and had it terminate
<patdk-wk> fixed, going gigabit again
<patdk-wk> stupid ups network surge protector, limited it to 100mbit
<Ian_Corne> ah :p
<Ian_Corne> maurer_: what is broken?
<patdk-wk> :( getting 24MB now, instead of 7.8MB
<BUGabundo> sorry
<BUGabundo> what were you saying?
<BUGabundo> laptop froze once I pluged power cord
<BUGabundo> :(
<BUGabundo> maurer_: I _was_ running # dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/mmcblk0p1 ibs=100M
<BUGabundo> patdk-wk: you do know that spends more energy, right?
<patdk-wk> spends more energy?
<patdk-wk> what spends?
<Ian_Corne> gigabit
<patdk-wk> don't care
<patdk-wk> the brownouts spend more energy
 * patdk-wk wonders what costs more, me watching this take 30min to transfer, or me watching this take 90min to transfer
<BUGabundo> lol
<maurer_> Ian_Corne: Alt-tab is the biggest thing (crashes compiz)
<maurer_> Ian_Corne: Next on the list is that right clicking on widgets in gnome-panel no longer gives the secondary menu (i.e. I can't turn off NetworkManager via the gui anymore)
<maurer_> Ian_Corne: Finally, there's a bunch of generalized degradation in rendering of stuff related to gnome (gradients not ending on menu item boundaries, animated panel icons not working)
<Ian_Corne> maurer_: 2 is because nm-applet is now an indicator
<Ian_Corne> and you should be able to turn of network via left click
<Ian_Corne> I can
<Ian_Corne> and I don't use compiz on classic
#ubuntu+1 2010-12-22
<dnivra> hello. i am trying to create a USB startup disk of natty and it says "unable to install boot loader". what is wrong?
<dnivra> i did it thrice with no luck.
<dnivra> hello. i am trying to create a USB startup disk of natty and it says "unable to install boot loader". what is wrong?
<dnivra> hello. i am trying to create a USB startup disk of natty and it says "unable to install boot loader". what is wrong? i tried using unetbootin too-it says it finishes successfully but on restart, my computer says the disk isn't bootable
<dnivra> is there any reason why natty would detect my cpu as i686 when it is an x86_64 CPU? i use 10.10 64bit currently. i'm running it in virtualbox.
<dnivra> nit-wit, how did you get the alpha?
<nit-wit> dnivra,  same site I just wanted to confirm if it was today and I would see if my rsnc update to it would load athumb and boot
<dnivra> well i downloaded via torrent; should i have downloaded from server?
<nit-wit> torrent should be fine but you never know
<dnivra> is using an iPod an issue :)?
<sagaci> just verify via md5sum
<dnivra> i'm using an iPod shuffle 1GB. just a thought...
<dnivra> where can i find natty's md5? tried searching but no luck.
<dnivra> nit-wit, wrong channel :).
<nit-wit> dnivra, the first link on that link is the MD5SUM's
<dnivra> nit-wit, thanks! i didn't notice it :P.
<nit-wit> dnivra, a little to much 420 :)
<nit-wit> and sheaf stout
<dnivra> hmmm?
<dnivra> md5sum matches.
<nit-wit> dnivra, did you preformat the thumb each time to a fat32
<dnivra> nit-wit, everytime.
<nit-wit> dnivra,  have the daily just about updated  will see if unetbootin works first
<dnivra> nit-wit, unetbootin would successfully finish. do try booting it too.
<nit-wit> dnivra, oh I will try booting it, don't worry.
<dnivra> okay :)
<nit-wit> dnivra, just curiously it sounded like it was getting to the thumb for you just errors thrown correct
<dnivra> nit-wit, via startup disk creator, it manages to copy all data but bootloader has issues.
<dnivra> that is why i had a doubt-could it be that i'm using an iPod?
<nit-wit> dnivra, 'm a little confused where does the Ipod come in here
<nit-wit> *I'm
<dnivra_> nit-wit, i just tried startup disk creator; same error. unable to install boot loader
<nit-wit> dnivra, I'm loading a thumb I will be gone again shortly to see if it boots
<dnivra> nit-wit, okay.
<nit-wit> dniv
<nit-wit> dnivra, be right back
<dnivra> nit-wit, success i presume?
<nit-wit> dnivra, got it to boot but the top panel in Unity wasn't reacting to clicks
<dnivra> you used unetbootin?
<nit-wit> dnivra, sorry my keyboard started acting weird.  With the daily development it is hit or miss,  wouldn't instal it as the main bootloader
<dnivra> nit-wit, oh! okay.
<dnivra> i just created another one using unetbootin. i'll try once more.
<nit-wit> dnivra, all you can do is try
<dnivra> nit-wit, i guess yeah. be right back.
<nit-wit> cool
<dnivra> nit-wit, nope. no luck :(.
<dnivra> ahhh well i give up. i'll just wait for Alpha 2. sigh.
<nit-wit> dnivra, try the next daily i guess you notice the date on the page you can use this to get a daily down load and daily update of it. http://paste.ubuntu.com/546512/
<dnivra> nit-wit, it's same for amd64?
<nit-wit> dnivra, put the ISO you have in home and run the command and see if it updates it
<dnivra> nit-wit, okay then. it would automatically download changes? or would it download the entire iso?
<nit-wit> dnivra, actually no hold on
<dnivra> i mean just change i386 to amd64 right?
<nit-wit> dniva it would be the name of the ISO mine is natty-desktop-i386.iso change this part to the name of yours and make sure rsync is installed in synaptic i think it is in a stock install
<dnivra> nit-wit, thanks a lot!
<nit-wit> dnivra, changes after you have the ISO the one you have has the same name as the server ones right
<dnivra> yeah same name; didn't edit it.
<nit-wit> dnivra, I would copy and paste a copy in home then run the command then check the data size there may be a diffrence hard to say
<nit-wit> dnivra, the one in home will be the one the command changes
<dnivra> nit-wit, alright then i'll create a copy as well :).
<nit-wit> dnivra, thats the lazy mans way lets see oh the data different, hmmm something is amiss. :)
<dnivra> nit-wit, i'm supposed to hope for a data change right?
<dnivra> nit-wit, when i run sync for the iso file, it would download the entire iso file if the version on my hard disk is different from the one on the remote server?
<dnivra> the entire iso?
<dnivra> rsync*
<nit-wit> dnivra, if there is a change  would try loading that into the thumb I updated with the command then loaded my thumb that booted
<dnivra> nit-wit, alrighto. great! hope for a change.
<dnivra> i am trying to run natty on virtual box and get the error "The kernel requires an x86_64 CPU, but only detected an i686 CPU. Unable to boot-please use a kernel appropriate for your CPU". but i run a 64bit maverick! any particular reason?
<nit-wit> dnivra, I don't know it may have a rsync tag in there so that it gets the whole ISO first I just use the command every time on the development to get the first ISO
<dnivra> so everytime you effectively download the entire iso?
<dnivra> the iso undergoes changes everyday?
<nit-wit> dnivra, after the first it just updates really fast
<dnivra> okay then i'll give it a shot.
<nit-wit> dnivra, it looks at the ISO and just puts in the updates
<dnivra> is the iso repackaged daily?
<nit-wit> dnivra, most of the time but the are freeze stages and once in aawhile a stop for a couple of days just watch that original download page for the latest day of release
<dnivra> nit-wit, okay! i'm still getting used to the whole development process :).
<nit-wit> dnivra, watch the page so you can know whether you want to or even update
<dnivra> nit-wit, will do! thanks a lot!
<nit-wit> dnivra, no problem  just use the development and watch whats going on to much free time on my hands. :)
<nit-wit> *I
<dnivra> nit-wit, you said watch this page right http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases/natty/alpha-1/ ?
<nit-wit> dnivra, that's the one.
<dnivra> nit-wit, last modified 2 dec. so how come it works for you but not for me. if download corrupted it, md5sum wouldn't match right?
<nit-wit> dnivra, well mine is the 32 bit so it is different the md5 I would think be correct
<dnivra> nit-wit, yeah true but well essentially the same right?
<dnivra> ahhh it's fine. i'll come and ask here later on.
<nit-wit> dnivra, I don't really know the same packages and build but I don't really knao the diffrence between the two is the md5 not match now
<nit-wit> *is=does
<dnivra> the md5 doesn't match eh? then i guess an update did happen. i'll keep my hopes up then. thanks a lot!
<DanaG> Right now getting a real USB install is annoying.
<DanaG> You need a cd or a second USB stick to boot from, to install to the first one.
<[lan3y]> has anyone else got a bug where right click does not function properly?
<[lan3y]> for example, right clicking on unity makes it disappear
<[lan3y]> my random notes on 11.04 if anyone is interested: http://tlan3y.blogspot.com/
<coz_> good day all
<coz_> early lunch be back in a bit
<charlie-tca> nvidia-current still being held
<Volkodav> is it?
<Volkodav> I think I installed 2-3 days ago
<Volkodav> not sure though
<Volkodav> i think I saw it in updates
<IdleOne> charlie-tca: I removed nividia-current and the modaliases package as well then reinstalled nvidia-current. worked well for me
<IdleOne> and yeah gues it was 2-3 days ago I did this
<IdleOne> guess*
<bjsnider> the modaliases package is supposed to now be a dummy upgrade package. it should not be holding nvidia-current back
<IdleOne> bjsnider: it wasn't but caused a depends issue when trying to reinstall nvidia-current. so I removed it and then it installed without issue
<IdleOne> I have no packages held back at the moment
<charlie-tca> Mine is still sitting on it, for some reason. Maybe I will do a remove/install on nvidia
<wootehfoot> anyone knows how to modify date/time settings in narwhal? changing it from ccommandline doesnt seem to help it
<coz_> ok be back in about an hour or so
<nit-wit> wootehfoot, does the clock have a weather location function
<wootehfoot> i've tried setting the location to a place +1h away, it doesn't affect the clock
<wootehfoot> nit-wit, but yes it does have a weather location function
<nit-wit> have you set that
<nit-wit> wootehfoot, is that the setting you have done?
<IdleOne> I kinda like being able to respond to posts from email
<IdleOne> avoids me having to load facebook at all
<IdleOne> lol wrong windows
<IdleOne> -s
<nit-wit> IdleOne, Facebook you couldn't pay me to be a member :)
<IdleOne> nit-wit: only have a account for family reasons
<IdleOne> besides that I don't use it.
<nit-wit> IdleOne, It's okay everybody  is doing it, no need gto justify. ;)
<nit-wit> *to
<IdleOne> ok the truth is I play farmville all the time :/
<nit-wit> IdleOne, sounds like a 12 step statement.
<IdleOne> hahaha
<nit-wit> hi I'm nit-wit and I am a nit-wit
<IdleOne> Hi, my name is IdleOne and I'm a FarmVille addict. Please HELP ME!
<nit-wit> IdleOne, lol
<nit-wit> IdleOne, are you trying out natty
<wootehfoot> nit-wit, yeah i've set the weather location to somethinng in my time zone, but i have done multiple locations, and it doesnt affect the clock
<IdleOne> trying? no. I been running natty since toolchain.
<wootehfoot> if there was a way to enable daylight saving it would do the trick, but the menus are inaccessible
<nit-wit> wootehfoot, is this a install
<wootehfoot> nit-wit, yeah it is
<nit-wit> wootehfoot, full install not a thumb loaded with a persistent function
<wootehfoot> nit-wit, indeed
<nit-wit> wootehfoot, hmmm I have only just loaded natty and haven't looked at this, I can boot to it and take a look
<wootehfoot> i can change the time from the command line, but it is forgotten until the next boot
<wootehfoot> and it changes the time in the system clock, so when i boot back to windows the time is off there too, though changing it in w7 is no problem
<wootehfoot> brb
<safinaskar> I cannot install VMWare 7.1.3 on my Kubuntu Natty i386. When I install it process sudenly crashes and VMWare uninstall itself back. Help!
<nit-wit> wootehfoot,  Try in the terminal sudo dpkg-reconfigure tzdata
<charlie-tca> windows uses local time, Ubuntu uses UTC + or - to set time. Perhaps that is the cause. Is there a way to set windows to use the same time?
<histo> charlie-tca: you can set ubuntu to use localtime.
<charlie-tca> hm, removing the nvidia hardware driver in 64bit was bad. can't seem to start gdm or X now
<bfri> there is a feature in ubuntu jaunty for wireless broadband setting that allows me to use my usb modem.  no other distribution has this setting.  how do i transfer it over to another distribution?
<IdleOne> charlie-tca: did you reinstall it?
<matrixa1> sudo dpkg-reinstall tzdata works
<matrixa1> thx :)
<bfri> there is a feature in ubuntu jaunty for wireless broadband setting that allows me to use my usb modem.  no other distribution has this setting.  how do i transfer it over to another distribution?
<charlie-tca> IdleOne: like, using jockey-text? It won't install
<IdleOne> I installed the nvidia-current package from CLI, rebooted (had to mess with compiz unity plugin thingy on/off a couple times, rebooted again.
<charlie-tca> can't even get it to recognize the nvidia-current
<IdleOne> hmm
<charlie-tca> that's what I said, too
<IdleOne> don't know what to tell you
<charlie-tca> Well, I can try one more time. Then I will just reinstall natty, I think
<charlie-tca> I keep getting an error:
<charlie-tca> /usr/lib/pymodules/python2.7/gtk-2.0/gtk/_init_.py:57: GtkWarning: could not open display
<charlie-tca> heh
<charlie-tca> well, I see the future... install natty / try again...
<charlie-tca> made it work! had to remove /etc/X11/xorg.conf
<IdleOne> good job
<charlie-tca> I should have known that, too
<matrixa1> wait, so running nvidia-xconfig would have done it too?
<matrixa1> had problems with nvidia-current too but it got resolved with the nvidia-commons update
<genii-around> Does the latest bluedevil update have fixes for constantly-on LCD backlight?
<genii-around> Bleh. Backlight still in perma-on. < mumbles >
<yofel_> genii-around: what does bluedevil have to do with LCD backlight? (or do you mean powerdevil?)
<genii-around> yofel: Sorry, yes, got the names transposed
<yofel> 4.6 rc1 isn't in natty yet, still being worked on, will be there soon
<Volkodav> wtf is lately with skype - can't login for hours
<Volkodav> second time this week
<rumpel> Volkodav, skype is down
<rumpel> wordlwide fail :D
<Volkodav> crackers attack ?
<rumpel> the worst of the worst: wikileak-pirate-terrorist-hackers
<psusi> script kiddies, not hackers...
 * Volkodav has back up with google voice
<Volkodav> rumpel: any idea what happenned with skype ?
<rumpel> Volkodav, no ... but i've read about it in the last minutes in several different channels...
 * patdk-wk read about it here
<allu2> Hello, i found one "bug" from my alphas facebook applet --> http://ajp.dy.fi/share/facebug.png
<allu2> when i begin to write text on the bar the "post to fa.." doesn't disappear and if i don't delete it it will be on the message in facebook
<tembrae> any fix for the 10.10 authentication issue? besides clicking close?
<alex88> is possible to boot from iso in grub?
<yofel> tembrae: this channel is for 11.04 support, 10.10 support is in #ubuntu #kubuntu #lubuntu or #xubuntu
<Volkodav> grub2 yes
<yofel> alex88: in grub2 sure, here's an example https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel/Dev/MultipleISOBootUSBKey
<alex88> yofel, thank you..i've tried some but didn't worked
<alex88> yofel, running update-grub won't delete entries?
<alex88> i should check in /etc/default if i can find smoething usefull.. nm man
<yofel> alex88: if you edit grub.cfg it will, put them in /etc/grub.d/40_custom instead
<alex88> yeah /etc/grub.d sorry.. thank you
<yaaar> howdy
<yofel> anyone an idea what happened to /proc/acpi/thermal_zone in 2.6.37?
<alex88> yofel: i'm trying that page..but it not works as espected..i've the iso into /boot/iso/natty.iso
<alex88> i've changed path and it says: file not found, no such disk, you need to load the kernel first
<yofel> hm, it does work on my flash drive here, maybe it doesn't find /boot ?
<alex88> it's on /dev/sdb5.. the /boot dir.. so i've tried loopback loop (hd1,4)..same thing..
<alex88> btw, i'm doing that on my hdd
<yofel> alex88: afaik sdb5 is hd1,5 in grub2
<alex88> same thing.. i'm using the grub command line now
<alex88> mmhh...how can i debug? trying every single line in command line
<Amaranth> yofel: It would be hd0,4 or hd1,6 I would think
<Amaranth> yofel: Either it starts at 0 or it starts at 1
<alex88> sdb is the second..so 1 or 2..
<yofel> nah, grub2 has a weird naming counter
<yofel> a = 0, 1 = 1
<Amaranth> Yeah, to be honest I gave up on it some time ago so perhaps
<yofel> !grub2
<ubottu> GRUB2 is the default Ubuntu boot manager since 9.10 (Karmic). Lost GRUB after installing Windows? See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RestoreGrub - For more information and troubleshooting for GRUB2 please refer to https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Grub2
<yofel> yep
<yofel> Any partition designation (sda4, sdb6) must be changed, as GRUB and GRUB 2 count the partitions differently. The first partition for GRUB 2 is 1, not 0. Devices still start the count at 0.
<alex88> ok got it.. it was on root of that partition but mounted on boot in real fs :)
<alex88> it woeks yeah :)
<alex88> btw it was hd0,5 :)
<alex88> mmhh..can't install from mounted iso
<alex88> cause it can't mount the hdd where iso is located..
<alex88> and i want to use it as /boot
<alex88> should i use another separated partition for those?
<alex88> :S
 * alex88 loves errors on livecd boot
<alex88> wtf it tries to unmount /isodevice.. how can i make it continue anyway?
<alex88> because it can't be unmounted
<alex88> it loads from there!
<alex88> sudo umount -l -r -f /isodevice worked
<alex88> and started ubiquity with -b to not install bootloader
<alex88> quite tricky but it works..
<alex88> ok i'll stop spamming
<bjsnider> yofel, it's a good thing devices still start the count at zero otherwise it could be confusing...
<yofel> well, I don't get why they changed it at all
<bjsnider> no count should start at zero because zero is not an actual number
<yaaar> so i've been reading up on the whole Unity desktop thing (and Wayland for that matter) and I'm cautiously very excited...I was really dreading the new gnome shell. but I've heard conflicting reports on how closely the desktop version of Unity will match the current netbook remix UI. Can somebody enlighten me on that? Are there any design docs or mockups anywhere?
<coz_> yaaar,  well it does  refelct the netbook  since that is all it really is
<yaaar> coz_: huh?
<coz_> yaaar,  the difference is that compiz instead of mutter is the backend
<coz_> yaaar,  gnome-shell still sucks badly :)
<yaaar> coz_: oh...so in 11.04 the desktop version of ubuntu will have a GUI that looks/acts just like the current netbook remix!?
<Daekdroom> As far as I know, everything but classic GNOME still sucks badly :P
<coz_> yaaar,  but since unity got rid of mutter ...which gnome-shell uses  and instead chose compiz  thing are way betyter
<coz_> yaaar,  well at this point there are things they are working on that are not workig in unity at this point...desktop search  comes to mind...the icon  sets that should show up on the desktop
<coz_> yaaar,  but I believe all of this  getting worked on
<yaaar> hmm
<coz_> yaaar,  you can also choose during log on  either the unity desktop or classic gnome
<yaaar> i see
<coz_> yaaar,  there are still nvidia issues... and many things being changed on a daily basis
<yaaar> i had read that the desktop version was going to have some significant departures behavior-wise vs. the netbook edition. which i thought made a lot of sense...a simple interface that's good for 7" screens isn't maybe the best fit for a full-fledged workstation...
<coz_> yaaar,  well I use either one on my dual monitor system here
<coz_> yaaar,   either unity or  classic gnome is not at all out of place on a regular desktop although of course  it is designed for netbooks :)
<coz_> yaaar,  the biggest issue with uinity and regular desktops is   global menu...especially on dual monitors it is essentially useless because if I have a window opened on the seconday monitor  ,,,in order to access   File Edit View  I have to travel way to the upper left of the primary monitor
 * yofel notes that he doesn't have any nvidia issues
<coz_> yofel,  very cool :)  this last week has been just a bit of a pain  with packages held back :)
<yofel> yeah, probably since the modaliases package were removed
<coz_> yofel,  I also noticed that switching to twinview  manually  ,, nvidia-settings will freeze up  on occasion...needing a reastart of X  and sometimes twice
<BUGabundo> TopGear playing on my TV!
<bjsnider> that's an ok show
<bjsnider> i'm not much on cars myself
<BUGabundo> "ok"?
<BUGabundo> its AWESOME
<bjsnider> it's just a bunch of british jerks driving cars really fast
<BUGabundo> aahahha
<BUGabundo> if you feel like it
<yaaar> i can't forgive them for libeling Tesla
<yaaar> they showed it running out of power on the track. had a clip of them pushing it back to the hangar. then later they admitted that was entirely faked...it never ran out of battery on them...they just up and staged it.
<yaaar> that's just shameful
<bjsnider> you mean  tv lies? noooo!!!!!!
#ubuntu+1 2010-12-23
<Guest37518> hello?
<Guest37518> hi
<Guest37518> hi
<Guest37518> hi
<nit-wit> Guest37518, talking to yourself.:)
<Guest83939> !nick
<ubottu> Your nick is how people know you on IRC. Please don't change your nicknames too often (use /nick newnick), or it creates a lot of confusion. You should also !register your nick with Freenode.
<newnick> !register
<ubottu> Information about registering your nickname: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/InternetRelayChat/Registration - Type Â« /nick <nickname> Â» to select your nickname. Registration help available by typing /join #freenode
<IdleOne> if you plan on using Ubuntu channels I suggest not using that nick
<IdleOne> onetonturd: Please change your nick to something more family friendly.
<juk> hey guys volume control on the panel is gone
<sagaci> which to install from, alpha 1 or the latest daily
<nit-wit> sagaci, daily
<sagaci> oh, separate amd64+mac isos
<nit-wit> sagaci, ??
<sagaci> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/20101222/
<juk> hi is volume control on the panel is gone recently
<nit-wit> sagaci, I tried to get that build to work not to well but todays upgrades from the US servers got the installed Natty purring you might go alpha or wait for the next daily your choice really
<nit-wit> juk, how about the envelope they are separate in natty correct.
<nit-wit> juk, run in the terminal gnome-volume-control-applet and see if one shows. If it does just put that in a command for startup applications in  preferences. the one generated in the terminal will disappear at closing the terminal. also the fn key held down and the up down arrows on the keyboard control volume.
<juk> nit-wit: yeah, got old gnome volume control, thanks, fn - yes i know, it's on my laptop, on pc i use ctrl+]/[ since no fn key
<nit-wit> juk, most people know about the fn control but it doesn't hurt to mention it. you just going to put that command in startup applications.
<juk> nit-wit: agree, yes i did
<nit-wit> juk, early on in Natty I was not able to get the gnome volume to work glad to hear it does now.
<juk> nit-wit: thank you
<H4F> Hi all, After one of the update my system brokes
<H4F> now I am working from livecd trying to restore
<H4F> I chrooted the installation system
<H4F> when doing apt-get upgrade or dpkg -configure -a I have the many errors
<H4F> first error is "Failed to open connection to "system" message bus: Failed to connect to socket /var/run/dbus/system_bus_socket: No such file or directory"
<H4F> may be I didnt mount something before chrooting ? any one have an idea ?
<weside> hi
<H4F> ok guys I think I fixed the issue with Dbus. I exited chroot and mounted "mount --bind /var/run/dbus/ chroot/var/run/dbus/" then chrooted back
<H4F> I still have one error "Error org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.ServiceUnknown: The name org.freedesktop.PackageKit was not provided by any .service files"
<nperry> All you virtualbox box users
<nperry> Install virtualbox 4
<nperry> http://www.virtualbox.org/wiki/Changelog
<nperry> 3D support: fixed Unity/Compiz crashes on natty
<nperry> Enjoy
<htorque> nperry, yeah, that's good news for vbox testers :-)
<coz_> hey all
* jrib changed the topic of #ubuntu+1 to: Natty Narwhal 11.04 | Milestones: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NattyReleaseSchedule | Maverick/10.10 support in #ubuntu | Alpha 1 Released: http://www.ubuntu.com/testing/natty/alpha1 | Version 2.23.3 of libgtk2.0-0 appears to be broken and causing major issues for some, don't upgrade until it's fixed
<Ian_Corne> yeah jrib gdm broke :(
<yofel> well, the only gtk related thing that's broken here is that I can't copy & paste from firefox and thunderbird anymore :(
<coz_> mm let me try the firefox copy / paste...  yofel   what were you trying to copy paste?
<Ian_Corne> yofel: I couldn't copy paste from anywhere anymore
<yofel> *anything* - even xclipboard doesn't work anymore
<coz_> yofel,  I just highlighted and middle clicked in gedit from firefox.... seems to work
<yofel> well, any kde app works fine, but every gtk app is broken here
<coz_> yofel,   mm  when I copy paste from firefox it works here...and I have bot kde and gnome stuff onboard unless I am not understanding :(
<yofel> maybe it's just minefield, I'll look into it later
<coz_> yofel,  it could be  and actually I am using swiftfox  here  ,, i dont like firefox 4
<coz_> ok breakfast time  ,, be back in a bit
* jrib changed the topic of #ubuntu+1 to: Natty Narwhal 11.04 | Milestones: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NattyReleaseSchedule | Maverick/10.10 support in #ubuntu | Alpha 1 Released: http://www.ubuntu.com/testing/natty/alpha1 | Version 2.23.3 of libgtk2.0-0 appears to be broken and causing major issues for some, don't upgrade until it's fixed (bug #693737)
<dnivra> i was looking at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/682852. it says [Needs Packaging]. what exactly is to be done?
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 682852 in Ubuntu "[needs-packaging] OpenTeacher" [Wishlist,Confirmed]
<jrib> !packaging
<ubottu> The packaging guide is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide - See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages for information on getting a package integrated into Ubuntu - Other developer resources are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment - See also !backports
<jrib> dnivra: is the NewPackages link what you want?
<dnivra> jrib, reading it now
<dnivra> suppose a package is built in ubuntu, is it edubuntu compatible?
<jrib> dnivra: yep
<jrib> dnivra: edubuntu uses the same repositories, it just has a different set of default packages installed by default
<dnivra> jrib, oh! it's like that for all official OS of ubuntu family-ubuntu, kubuntu, xubuntu etc? shared repositories?
<dnivra> i read https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages-it links to packaging guide but what do I do after creating the deb file. what do I have to upload? if i fix a but, i upload a debdiff. in case of packaging?
<jrib> dnivra: yep
<dnivra> bug* not but :)
<jrib> dnivra: read the "Going through motu" part.  #ubuntu-motu is a good place for help with this.  Also, eventually you should get the package into debian too (if it gets into debian it automatically gets into ubuntu, so you help more people)
<dnivra> jrib, sure i'll check out the links and #ubuntu-motu for more on this.
<dnivra> jrib, if i get it into debian, don't i have to be the package maintainer? in ubuntu, it is always 'Ubuntu Developers' right? works the same in debian too?
<jrib> dnivra: not sure
<dnivra> jrib, okay then. i'll check it out in debian. will go ask their IRC. thanks a lot for the links!
<jrib> dnivra: yep, they have a packaging channel too but I don't know it offhand
<dnivra> jrib, no problem. i'll find it out. google :) thanks a lot!
<jrib> dnivra: yeah, there should be a link somewhere on the wiki about contributing to debian too
<dnivra> jrib, #debian-newmaint on OFTC i think.
<jrib> sounds about right
<dnivra> topics asks me to head to #debian-mentors
<dnivra> :)
<dnivra> topic*
<dnivra> jrib, would building the package on ubuntu make it compatible with debian? and would debian accept it? or would they ask me to build it on debian again?
<jrib> dnivra: in most cases, yes.  But you should setup some sort of debian build environment to do it.  They can probably advise you better than me in that debian channel
<dnivra> jrib, no response there so just thought i'd get a basic idea. i'll figure it out there. thanks!
<jrib> dnivra: if you build for natty, packages will likely be similar to debian unstable, so you should be okay
<wzssyqa> bug #693737
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 693737 in gtk+2.0 (Ubuntu) "gtk+2.0 update 2.23.3-1ubuntu2 update triggers repeated gdm greeter crashes" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/693737
<dnivra> jrib, fair enough then. i'll keep pinging debian channel too.
<wzssyqa> OMG, just recovery
<jrib> wzssyqa: eh?
<wzssyqa> jrib: topic
<jrib> wzssyqa: did that affect you too?
<wzssyqa> jrib: y, thanks to btrfs
<AlanBell> hi all
<AlanBell> just tried booting todays alternate CD, works in virtualbox but not on real hardware
<AlanBell> doesn't get to the point of asking languages, just get an unthemed grub menu and all of the options hang on a blank screen with a small white cursor top left
<hggdh> nice. I now have nothing in gnome-panel -- indicator-applet, nm-applet, everything vanished
<jMCg> I'm a terrible tester. I've gotten used to all of these things.
<charlie-tca> heh, at least in Xubuntu we get to watch them shrink and disappear
<hggdh> I thjink it is the gtk2.23... I will wait for an update, easier than downgrading
<Amaranth> hggdh: hrm, most of the desktop team is gone for about a week
<Amaranth> hggdh: From what I've been able to tell, anyway
<hggdh> Amaranth: yes, Canonical will be off next week
<Amaranth> hggdh: So you'll be a week without indicators :)
<hggdh> Amaranth: heh. Perhaps I should downgrade, then :-)
<charlie-tca> hggdh: did you see VBox 4.0 is out with 3d support?
<Amaranth> charlie-tca: they specifically mentioned fixing compiz/unity on natty in the changelog :)
<hggdh> charlie-tca: no, I had not. Interesting, now we can play with unity on a VM :-)
<Amaranth> I can't, palm tools don't support 4.0 yet
<Amaranth> Well, I think I can get away with two installs, actually...
<charlie-tca> but it works, too.
<Amaranth> oh well, I'm already using natty on my main machine
<charlie-tca> Of course, now you also need the extension pack to get usb2
<hggdh> ah well.
 * hggdh goes checking upstream VBox
<charlie-tca> but at least I can test in VBox again
<vish> Amaranth: whoa! unity is possible in VB4?
<vish> has anyone tried it?
<rumpel> Visual Basic?
<vish> VirtualBox
<vish> charlie-tca might have tested it i guess "<charlie-tca> but it works, too."
<rumpel> ah... k
<charlie-tca> No, I didn't test unity
<charlie-tca> I haven't been able to VBox to do any installs
<vish> yea, i was not sure :)
<charlie-tca> Let me try it
<charlie-tca> starting the live cd in VBox, let's find out
<charlie-tca> hm, fails here with my Nvidia video card, maybe I got the settings wrong
<charlie-tca> vish: how to install guest additions on the live environment that won't start without 3d?
<vish> hmm, i dont think we can do it for a live cd..
<vish> charlie-tca: it needs a reboot once we install the guest additions
<charlie-tca> so much for unity in VBox 4 live then
<charlie-tca> Maybe it will work for an installed image, but not for the live image?
<vish> i think we could install a virtual machine and then try to use is..
<vish> charlie-tca: yea..
<charlie-tca> But, hey, there are several changes in version 4, I might have to just play with it to get it right, too
<mongy> login to the 'fallback' gnome, install additions, logout/login to unity
<charlie-tca> that is a nice plan. Boot the desktop cd, pick Try Ubuntu, and do that?
<coz_> hey guys.. real quick before I reboot... anyone having issues with gnome-panel broken ?
<coz_> today's updates seem to have broken gnome-panel in classic gnome
<Amaranth> coz_: yeah, everyone seems to be getting that
 * Amaranth was just about to pull the trigger on an apt-get upgrade before people started talking about it
<coz_> Amaranth,  oh ok thanks :)
<coz_> well at least I can reboot  and killall gnome panel :)
<charlie-tca> Well, to be sure, Unity does run in virtualbox 4.0 now with guest additions installed!
<Pici> jadd: The bug linked in the topic is likely relevant to your issue.
<jadd> Pici: can i do a downgrade to that one before ?
<IdleOne> jadd: see the comments in the bug
<jadd> k thanks
<alfa> ciao
<alfa> qualcuno?
<[lan3y]> Hi, i am having problems with gnome on 11.04, the top panel is not showing any notification symbols in the right hand corner (wifi account name ect) how do i fix this panel?
<nit-wit> [lan3y], are you updated and which servers are you using what country?
<[lan3y]> i;ve found it now, im another victim of the new GTK+2.0 package
<[lan3y]> how do i downgrade it again?
<[lan3y]> nit-wit, i keep getting errors when  i try and downgrade
<nit-wit> [lan3y], downgrade what's the meaning of that
<[lan3y]> the bug for the problem i got says downgrade the package
<nit-wit> [lan3y], and how does it do that or do you go to synaptic and get the earlier reinstalled
<matrixa1> i bet somebody already has noticed this, but the latest updates have nuked most gnome-panel applets
<charlie-tca> see the topic
<charlie-tca> oops. You are correct, matrixa1
<charlie-tca> It has been noticed...
<matrixa1> ah that explains it
<matrixa1> didn't read the topic tbh
<charlie-tca> I read the topic everytime it changes and I am in the channel. But read it when logging in???
 * charlie-tca thinks it is a good idea, though :-)
<patdk-wk> there be a topic? :)
<charlie-tca> I don't know if there is when I first log in to the channel ;-)
<leagris> Hope noone will kill compiz enhanced zoom. As a visually impaired, this tool is an unavoidable extraordinary help.
<leagris> I left trying to run Kde4 because the same feature is a pain without mouse wheel event ton control zooming.
 * leagris missing the resolution agnostic CRTs. Now I can't use an LCD display without extensive dynamic zooming.
<charlie-tca> +1
<BUGabundo> oi
<charlie-tca> Hello, BUGabundo
<BUGabundo> ON NOES
<BUGabundo> recent X update is broken
<BUGabundo> can't copy or paste :S
<yofel> welcome to the club
<charlie-tca> Happy Holidays :-)
<BUGabundo> ahahahahaa
<BUGabundo> what's the bug id?
<yofel> did anyone report that yet? I didn't get to it yet
<BUGabundo> I'm busy re-flashing my phone, putting mail into zero, and spamming all my contact list with a xtmas message!
<BUGabundo> you ?
#ubuntu+1 2010-12-24
<coz_> lol...wow... everything is screwed up..   gome panel... flash..java  gdm
<crimsun> welcome to Natty Narwhal!
<coz_> lol
<crimsun> you know the drill...
<coz_> yep  i sure do :)
<coz_> well cairo dock is  still working as long as I dont enable systray plugin :)
<coz_> well not all of java is broken...openbravo sitll funtions properly... just in firefox I suppose
<coz_> ah billard-gl doesnt work ...thats interesing
<coz_> cool... gtk updates  lets  hope  :)
<yofel> hm, with gtk 2.23.3-1ubuntu3 it's not that nothing happens when I try to copy something, it's just that the application crashes as soon as I select something.. - let's see if the downgrade will help
<coz_> ah  a gnome panel has appeared :)
<coz_> I can go to bed happy now
<nit-wit> there's know place like gnome
<coz_> :)
<BUGabundo> and the new updates are even more broken. won't install. stuck at man-db
<ikonia> oh dear
<BUGabundo> and even a -9 won't kill it
<BUGabundo> forcing a configure -a
<BUGabundo> ikonia: can you update /topic to NOT recommend upgrades at this time
<ikonia> I thought it already did
<ikonia> it it already does say
<BUGabundo> or many natty ubunteros will miss their PCs for the holidays
<BUGabundo> humm it didn't fit my screen
<BUGabundo> :(
<yofel> robert uploaded a downgrade to gtk 2.32.2 a while ago, so I hope we'll have usable systems again soon
<yofel> interestingly 2.23.3ubuntu3 only crashes firefox and thunderbird, all other gtk apps work fine again
<Amaranth> yofel: I imagine others don't deal with foreign (X11) windows directly
<yofel> probably
<BUGabundo> pidgin doesn't work well
<BUGabundo> nor firefox
<BUGabundo> or gedit
<BUGabundo> chromium works more or less
<BUGabundo> gnome-terminal doesn't work eitehr
<yofel> gnome-terminal and gedit work fine here now
<BUGabundo> apt/dpkg affected some how
<BUGabundo> unrelated
<Guest20238> Hi! i made the stupid decision to upgrade to 11.04 ubuntu alpha and im having problems at the login page that flickers.
<holstein> can you login?
<BUGabundo> Guest20238: today is a really bad day to upgrade
<Guest20238> i know i know. i immediately regretted the decision to upgrade. i was unaware that it was the alpha version.
<Guest20238> i really need to login and save my webpages that were left open in firefox.
<BUGabundo> classic login or unity ?
<Guest20238> classic login
<nit-wit> whats the gconf-editor section for the windows controls moved from left to right used to be in nautilus
<BUGabundo> beats me, sorry
<Guest20238> where do i find xorg.conf ??
<BUGabundo> !commands
<ubottu> The linux terminal or command-line interface is very powerful. Open a terminal via Applications -> Accessories -> Terminal (Gnome), K-menu -> System -> Konsole (KDE), or Menu -> Accessories -> LXTerminal (LXDE). Guide: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UsingTheTerminal
<Guest20238> imma try to replace my HD xorg.conf with the one from the live cd.
<BUGabundo> nit-wit: there was a bot command for that. it iludes me right now
<Guest20238> im on the live cd now
<nit-wit> BUGabundo, yah saw the bot
<BUGabundo> Guest20238: you have to mount / and edit /etc/X11/xorg *if* there is such a thing
<BUGabundo> we don't use it now
<BUGabundo> !left
<BUGabundo> !rightleft
<BUGabundo> !right
<nit-wit> the side to side can be done by theme changes, but  can't tell if it is the themes causing no dropdowns at times
<Guest20238> i see xorg.conf.save in /etc/x10 but not xorg.conf
<Guest20238> can't i just sudo the replacement?
<BUGabundo> what for ?
<Guest20238> i saw a post about this flickering login page problem and someone suggested replacing the live cd xorg.conf with the one on the ubuntu hard drive
<Guest20238> suggesting it would fix the issue
<Guest20238> thought that was on a ubuntu 9.04 post with the same flickering login page problem
<Guest20238> any ideas anyone?
<Guest20238> how can i enable auto-login from terminal?
<holstein> http://tombuntu.com/index.php/2010/01/01/enable-automatic-login-in-ubuntu-9-10-server/
<holstein> ^^ maybe...
<Guest20238> thanks my friend
<billybigrigger> is there no wine packages for natty?
<billybigrigger> Failed to fetch http://ppa.launchpad.net/ubuntu-wine/ppa/ubuntu/dists/natty/main/source/Sources.gz  404  Not Found
<billybigrigger> just use maverick instead?
<MTecknology> heh.... my clipboard isn't working very well today
<rye> is the issue that gnome-keyring cannot be contacted known?
<AlanBell> !info wine
<ubottu> wine (source: wine1.2): Microsoft Windows Compatibility Layer (dummy package). In component universe, is optional. Version 1.2.2-0ubuntu1 (natty), package size 1 kB, installed size 64 kB
<AlanBell> billybigrigger: there are wine packages in natty, but not in that ppa
<billybigrigger> i just used maverick packages
<AlanBell> no, you didn't :)
<AlanBell> you have a ppa set up, go to software sources and remove it or edit your /etc/apt/sources.list
<AlanBell> you have the ubuntu-wine ppa set up http://ppa.launchpad.net/ubuntu-wine/ppa/
<Ian_Corne> bah, I did full-upgrade
<Ian_Corne> and now the wireless applet is gone
<Ian_Corne> or the indicator
<ElPasmo> Hi, I've downloaded Natty amd64 daily build: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/current/natty-desktop-amd64.iso and I've use the startup disk creator to create an usb live. The problem is I'm not able to boot from usb live, it keeps forever doing the load animation with the Ubuntu logo.
<rumpe1> ElPasmo, same problem hier .. had to use unetbootin for alternate. Then it worked.
<ElPasmo> mmm I don't know unetbootin, I'll check it... thanks rumpe1
<ElPasmo> rumpe1, it worked... thanks a lot :)
<coz_> ok guys... current updates  ok?
<coz_> ah darn... nevermind... I accidentaly hit enter :)
<rumpe1> ElPasmo, nice :)
<alkisg> How can I do `aptitude changelog package` in Natty? Is there an apt-* equivalent installed?
<yofel> alkisg: there's apt-get changelog package in natty
<alkisg> Ty, trying it..
<penguin42> there appears to be a fix in at  the moment for 693737 - someone rolled an older version to replace it
<yofel> cool, someone broke bazaar
<cdbs> yofel: What is cool in that?
<yofel> nothing, I'm just don't feel like throwing curses around today
<yofel> -'m
<yofel> bug 693915
<ubottu> Bug 693915 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/693915 is private
<BUGabundo> My most dear online friends, best wishes of an Happy Merry Xtmas for you all and your Families!
<charlie-tca> And a very Merry Christmas to you, also!
<BUGabundo> charlie-tca: family all around you now, or what?
<BUGabundo> are you playing nauty santa this year?
<charlie-tca> I have my daughter and grandsons here, yes.
<charlie-tca> no, not playing santa
<yofel> Merry Christmas folks!
<charlie-tca> and a very Merry Christmas to you, also
<nacho_> hey guys
<nacho_> is the new development version of ubuntu usable?
 * nacho_ usually use the unstable version but I'm kinda scared of the switch to wayland
<charlie-tca> nacho_: no
<vish> nacho_: no switch to wayland yet. wont happen for Natty
<charlie-tca> did you see the topic? That bug is not stable
<nacho_> btw is gtk3 shipped?
<vish> nacho_: no
<nacho_> no?
<vish> nacho_: not on the CD , but will be in universe or in a ppa
<nacho_> :( seems I'll have to keep testing gedit with jhbuild
<vish> hmm.. wait :s i think thats about GNOME3 , gtk3 i'm confused now!
<vish> wow! the new VirtualBox is awesome!  when we want to create a new VM.. as soon as we type "Natty"  it automatically selects Linux/Ubuntu  wow!
<charlie-tca> I wish I could turn that preview screen off, though
<vish> charlie-tca: there is an option to disable it , right-click the preview image
<charlie-tca> never thought of that
<vish> charlie-tca: ooh! just found another way to disable it.. if we double click it it totally goes away.. o.0
<charlie-tca> I guess that will work. It is rather irritating when I got two machines runnings
<charlie-tca> That works for me. Thanks
<vish> np.. to restore preview we have to click the "preview" again..
<charlie-tca> I don't want to restore it
<vish> yea.. i dont see the point of having the preview..
<charlie-tca> It only shows the last machine started. If there is more than one running, it just confuses things
<mongy> I have tried alpha and a few daily lives and I cant for the life of me get a working persistent usb stick to see/use the persistence part..
<Volkodav> The "add euro" option doesn't
<Volkodav> seem to do anything is that just me ?
<Volkodav> â¬ now OK
<Volkodav> gHBGETD
<lamlex> Has anyone tried installing natty on a macbook pro?
<lamlex> The installer doesn't show any text with the live, and while there's a daily -mac image there doesn't seem to be one for the alpha one
<charlie-tca> If there was no one to test, there is no alpha1 image
<lamlex> can i use the normal one to install onto a macbook? does it matter? i dont really know what the difference is
<lamlex> I guess I could just use a maverick cd and upgrade
<charlie-tca> the normal image should work on anything with the intel processor. The powerpc image is specific to the ppc
<lamlex> we dont officially make ppc images anymore
<lamlex> I'm going to try the non-live cd I guess
<charlie-tca> sure we do - http://cdimages.ubuntu.com/daily/current/
<lamlex> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily/current/
<charlie-tca> for natty, too
<lamlex> interesting
<charlie-tca> what we dropped was the ps3 images
<lamlex> I was pretty sure we dropped ppc a few releases ago
<charlie-tca> It that is true, why are there PowerPC images in current?
<lamlex> Well apparently it's not true
<lamlex> macbooks aren't ppc anyway so this is kind of irrelevant
 * penguin42 thinks I'll upgrade my main machine to Natty, it's a long enough break to recover :-)
<penguin42> this laptop seems to be surviving OK as long as I don't go anywhere near Compiz, although I don't do as much interesting with it
<lamlex> penguin42: Well help us get compiz working for you
<lamlex> we want you to run Unity
<penguin42> lamlex: Yeh I'll keep trying on this laptop with that
<coz_> penguin42,   which video is on board that laptop?
<IdleOne> is the bug in the topic fixed?
<penguin42> coz_: Intel 945GM
<penguin42> IdleOne: Seems to be
<coz_> sorry about that
<coz_> IdleOne,  it was fixed with this mornings  updates for me
<coz_> penguin42,  ok  mmm  I dont about that intel graphics chip
<IdleOne> so can we remove the warning from topic?
<IdleOne> or should we still wait a bit
<coz_> IdleOne,  ah well i would think so but I would ask amaranth  or someone actually
<IdleOne> ok i'll leave it for now
<coz_> IdleOne,  there is always tomorrows bugs to break some thing anywy :)
<IdleOne> haha
<penguin42> coz_: The stuff I had today did look like graphics driver, but other stuff over the last week or two with lots of crashing panel stuff and the crashing compiz panel and a few others
<coz_> penguin42,  ah yeah  that panel crashing I believe was fixed this morening
<coz_> morning
<coz_> penguin42,  but then there's always tomorrow.... I know it's repeating myself :)
<penguin42> coz_: To be honest I'm ok at trying to help get it working, but I don't normally use compiz anyway
<coz_> penguin42,  ah ok..well  if you dont use compiz on natty you would have to disable the Ubuntu unity plugin in ccsm... and use classic gnome desktop which you can choose during login
<coz_> penguin42,  although the compiz that comes with natty is 0.9.x  the c++  version and is much les resource intensive for the most part
<yofel> IdleOne: we can remove that warning, gtk was downgraded in the archive reverting that bug
* IdleOne changed the topic of #ubuntu+1 to: Natty Narwhal 11.04 | Milestones: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NattyReleaseSchedule | Maverick/10.10 support in #ubuntu | Alpha 1 Released: http://www.ubuntu.com/testing/natty/alpha1 | Happy Holidays!
<penguin42> coz_: Yeh it's fine with classic
<coz_> penguin42,  yep :)  I prefer classic myself   especially on this dual monitor system... global menu is near useless with dual monitors
<IdleOne> compiz doesn't display the window buttons for me, need to metacity --replace
<coz_> IdleOne,  in unity?
<IdleOne> in classic
<coz_> oh
<penguin42> ppa-purge's xorg-edgers
<coz_> IdleOne,   do you have /usr/bin/compiz-decorator in the "Command" field under window decorations in ccsm?
<IdleOne> coz_: yes
<coz_> mmm
<coz_> IdleOne,  I havent tried gtk-window-decorator  for unity yet.. but in all honesty I compiled  0.9x  onto natty instead of the default 0.9
<IdleOne> hmmm, visual effects is gone from Appearances
<penguin42> hmm, I keep getting 'the package ubuntu-desktop is marked for removal but it is in the removal blacklist'
<penguin42> hmm why is it removing notify-osd
<speedvin> Hello!
<speedvin> Does someone got working gimp on natty?
<rumpe1> speedvin, used it some days ago... no problem
<rumpe1> distro[Ubuntu "natty" 11.04]
<rumpe1> Linux natty 2.6.37-8-generic #21-Ubuntu SMP Sun Dec 5 17:57:05 UTC 2010 i686 GNU/Linux
<coz_> speedvin,  yes I have gimp on natty here
<coz_> let me check that it still works
<coz_> yep it works
<coz_> speedvin,  I have been testing most of the graphics apps...agave..blender. cenon.. fontmanager..gimp..g3dviewer..inkscape...k3d..misfit model....patch  price...pinta..
<coz_> phatch  rather
<speedvin> coz_: for me it does not...
<coz_> ooo
<coz_> speedvin,  you installed via apt  yes?
<speedvin> coz_: I got segmentation fault :(
<speedvin> coz_: yes ;)
<coz_> mm let me check to be s ure I didnt use a ppa  hold on
<speedvin> coz_: PPA? Maybe it can help me to get unstable version of gimp and run it :)
<coz_> speedvin,  no it was from synatpic ....
<coz_> speedvin,   I dont know... I think I installed via apt because the ppa didnt work but let me check
<coz_> speedvin,    https://launchpad.net/~matthaeus123/+archive/mrw-gimp-svn
<coz_> speedvin,  i dont think that will work though
<speedvin> coz_: Packages there need python<<2.7 :(
<coz_> ah ok
<coz_> speedvin,  maybe purge gimp and then reinstall it
<speedvin> coz_: I tried that  but I got the same effect as now
<coz_> speedvin,  oooo... I wo nder why it is segfaulting for you?  no other terminal output ?
<speedvin> coz_: no :(
<coz_> yikes
<mongy> .
<penguin42> hmm 1hour 54 min remaining...
<alex_mayorga> what's my best bet to deal with bad sectors on a crappy HDD?
<Volkodav> copy and trash the disk
<penguin42> alex_mayorga: a new disk
<penguin42> alex_mayorga: If there are bad sectors it's most likely it will develop more
<penguin42> not always, but still
<alex_mayorga> penguin42, Volkodav: thanks, I actually put no valuable data on it, but I've been having kernel panics and such
<alex_mayorga> dunno if related really, but was wondering if there's an easy way to let natty know about the faulty sectors
<Volkodav> I would do fresh install on a new disk
<penguin42> alex_mayorga: badblocks can scan a disk and produce a file that looks like it might be possible to pass to mke2fs or e2fsck
<alex_mayorga> Volkodav: that's my long term plan as well, but until I can afford a new HDD, I'd like to make the OS aware of these
<Volkodav> aware ?
<alex_mayorga> penguin42: thanks on the pointers, I'd look into it
<penguin42> has the notification system changed in natty?
<alex_mayorga> supposedly Toshiba gives 5 year warranty, so I might get lucky
#ubuntu+1 2010-12-25
<alex_mayorga> for the record, this faulty one is a Toshiba MK3263GSX 320GB on a Sony VAIO VPCCW
<alex_mayorga> sadly all the troubleshoot tools from Toshiba are win32 or dos :(
<Volkodav> What does Disk Utility says ?
<penguin42> or from the command line smartctl -a
<alex_mayorga> Volkodav: "Disk has a few bad sectors" 1244 according to it
<penguin42> 1244 is NOT a few!
<penguin42> 1 or 2 is a few
<alex_mayorga> penguin42: feel free to bug them :)
<Volkodav> yeah it is a mass corruption
<alex_mayorga> I believe it has been like that for a year or so
<alex_mayorga> it stills shows a green "LED" next to the message as well
<penguin42> alex_mayorga: You'd have to be lucky for it to stick like that but hey if it does, then you could try badblocks, although I'd expect the drive to remap the sectors if written to
<alex_mayorga> I'm running the extended test on it as of now, but it would take quite some time I believe
<alex_mayorga> penguin42: yup! I know, I guess I'll just continue playing death roulette with it for now, no cash :(
<alex_mayorga> thanks guys on the ideas
<penguin42> woah, was about to give that up as a failed upgrade, but then it finally started
<bjsnider> is gftp still the best ftp choice for gnome?
<yofel> bjsnider: why not use filezilla?
<yofel> that's my preference at least
<mork1> hi everyone, i have some question. i use natty ubuntu. my X usually crash in the middle run. what happen? how can i solve this?
<bjsnider> yofel, i would rather have the app integrated into gnome in some meaningful way
<yofel> define integrated..
<magn3ts> Anyone else have connman sitting in a perpetual state of needing to be upgraded? Any chance the PPAs for NetworkManager-app indicator changed?
<bjsnider> yofel, integrated in the same way that empathy is integrated
<lamalex> Is anyone using the proprietary nvidia driver?
<lamalex> I can't get proper resolution or 3d
<lamalex> all I can get is 800x600
<lamalex> hmm maybe nvidia isn't really being loaded as glxinfo does not show anything good
<adnap> hello, i just downloaded the latest 64-bit ubuntu ("about ubuntu" says it's 11.04) and have downloaded and enabled the broadcom wireless sta driver.  however, i still don't have a wireless interface and am unable to click "enable wirless" on the toolbar.  can anyone help with this issue?
<prabhu> how to upgrade from 10.10 to 11.04
<EvilPhoenix> prabhu:  you cant until its released to stable afaik
<rigved> prabhu: use zsync to download the alpha release of 11.04. it's available on the website
<prabhu> yeah i downloaded it
<prabhu> but i want to upgrade it to 11.04 without loss of any data
<prabhu> i am curently using 10.10
<jfi> prabhu, update-manager -d
<prabhu> i have the image already
<UndiFineD> prabhu, "without loss of any data" are you sure you want to run an unstable pre-release for your data ?
<prabhu> yup
<UndiFineD> just checking :)
<prabhu> i have some movies
<prabhu> so i dont want to waste time in transferring those datas
<UndiFineD> burn the cd / write the stick and install it then, be sure to do partitions manually and not to format a /home or your datas partition
<jfi> prabhu, you should consider install it in a VM or aside maverick, upgrading to an alpha 4 months before the release is a high risk
<prabhu> hmmmm so its better not to do?
<jfi> well, you can install it to try it, but you should keep your maverick install to be sure to always have a working ubuntu
<jfi> at anytime, natty can break and even not booting after a daily update
<prabhu> hmmm
<prabhu> so just for a learning process ,pls tell me how to upgrade if i have an ubuntu<version>.iso image
<UndiFineD> we just did
<jfi> prabhu, https://help.ubuntu.com/community/MaverickUpgrades read the section "Upgrading Using the Alternate CD/DVD"
<prabhu> yeah i did that
<prabhu> its not working
<prabhu> gksu "sh /cdrom/cdromupgrade"
<prabhu> this code right?
<prabhu> after mounting?
<prabhu> i did it
<jfi> if you have burned the cd, yes
<prabhu> njo i just mounted
<prabhu> *no
<jfi> note that is the ALTERNATE cd
<prabhu> so what shud i do?
<om26er> in natty i have to manually start gdm from a tty. before that there is only black screen
<om26er> *fully updated
<speedvin> Hello!
<speedvin> After yesterday update of kernel (2.6.37.11) I got kernel panic...
<speedvin> Does someone got same situation?
<knittl> hm. sudo ppa-purge xorg-edgers
<knittl> warning: c ould not find package list for ppa: xorg-edgers ppa
<knittl> xorg-edgers page on launchpad says i should use this command
<bazhang> knittl, is ppa-purge installed
<knittl> bazhang: yes
<knittl> otherwise the error would be: ppa-purge not found, and can be installed via following packages
<knittl> or something liket hat
<knittl> * like that
<bazhang> knittl, got a link to the ppa page?
<knittl> https://launchpad.net/~xorg-edgers/+archive/ppa
<knittl> line from sources.list is: deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/xorg-edgers/ppa/ubuntu maverick main
<penguin42> knittl: I think in the end I used ppa-purge ppa:ubuntu-x-swat or something like that
<bazhang> sudo ppa-purge xorg-edgers
<knittl> bazhang: no, that's what i tried
<bazhang> odd that the exact command given there would error out
<knittl> penguin42: no luck either :(
<penguin42> knittl: Have a dig around in your /etc/apt/sources.list.d to see what extra things you have from them
<knittl> penguin42: only the line i pasted before
<penguin42> I've got an ubuntu-x-swat-x-updates-maverick.list and I think it was ppa-purge ppa:ubuntu-x-swat/x-updates maybe ?
<penguin42> knittl: Oh ok
<knittl> i got: albertomilone-proprietary-video-improvements-lucid.list (maybe?), bzr-beta, bzr-ppa, clayt055, inkscape-nightly, johannes-reinhardt, lucid-partner, murrine-daily, tobydox-ultrastardx, ubuntu-mozilla-daily, wvengen, xorg-edgers
<knittl> ok, the first file is empty
<knittl> or wait. do i have to have the ppa active at that time?
<knittl> yep, that was it :-$
<speedvin> Have someone tested newest kernel in natty?
<penguin42> speedvin: My desktop is on 2.6.37-11 #25
<speedvin> penguin42: no problems?
<speedvin> penguin42: I got kernel panic ;)
<penguin42> speedvin: I have an odd boot problem where it stays as a black screen until a long time into the boot and then eventually gets OK
<penguin42> speedvin: Do you have a copy of the panic?
<speedvin> penguin42: no...
<speedvin> penguin42: I get only debbuger ;)
<penguin42> speedvin: Got a camera ?
<speedvin> penguin42: no :(
<penguin42> oh :-(
<speedvin> penguin42: I think It's have something to do with ACPI :(
<speedvin> penguin42: BTW. Have you GIMP?
<penguin42> speedvin: Lots of ACPI stuff causes problems, if you can get a picture then we might be able to see if it's similar to something else
<penguin42> yep, got the Gimp
<speedvin> penguin42: right
<speedvin> penguin42: It's working fine there?
<penguin42> speedvin: Just tried it, seems to start up OK
<speedvin> penguin42: I got segfault and no other info :(
<penguin42> you could try and get a back trace
<speedvin> penguin42: I got Only Segfault and nothing more....
<speedvin> penguin42: when I try to run it in verbose mode I get Segfault again :(
<penguin42> speedvin: Does it leave a file in /var/crash?
<speedvin> penguin42: no...
<penguin42> hmm
<speedvin> penguin42: ohh.. I see os-prober in updates maybe it will solve my problem with newest kernel....
<penguin42> speedvin: In your /etc/default/apport is it enabled or not ?
<speedvin> penguin42: no...
<penguin42> speedvin: If you enable it and do what it says then when something segs it will dump a log into /var/crash and you can pick it appart with the apport tools
<speedvin> penguin42: core dump :)
<speedvin> penguin42: maybe I can paste it somewere and you can read the log?
<speedvin> Yes...
<speedvin> I know what is the problem with gimp
<penguin42> yes if you can get it to a pastebin I'm happy to read it
<speedvin> It's my gtk engine (gtk-oxygen)
<speedvin> [Solved]
<penguin42> ah that's always been a bit touchy, but still, it's a bug
<speedvin> penguin42: Ok can you report this problem with gimp to the dev's ?
<penguin42> speedvin: No, you can!
<speedvin> penguin42: Where to register?
<penguin42> bugs.launchpad.net, and you can just run ubuntu-bug on your machine to submit a bug
<speedvin> penguin42: what is the name of the package ?
<penguin42> gimp !
<speedvin> penguin42: I mean for ubuntu-bug
<penguin42> speedvin: But make it clear in the report it only happens with gtk-oxygen
<speedvin> penguin42: right...
<penguin42> has anyone else noticed in natty that you can't just hit return at gdm to select the highlighted user? I've reported it as bug 694227
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 694227 in gdm (Ubuntu) "gdm doesn't accept a return to select highlighted user" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/694227
<mt1mma> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NattyReleaseSchedule  February 17th, mistyped as Ubuntu 10.04.2, somebody please correct it.
<mt1mma> It says, "Please do not edit"
<mt1mma> How do I correct it?
<yofel> mt1mma: why is that mistyped?
<IdleOne> mt1mma: what should it be?
<mt1mma> It should be Ubuntu 11.04.02
<yofel> mt1mma: no, it shouldn't
<IdleOne> umm no
<yofel> mt1mma: that's the date for lucid .2 release
<mt1mma> What is the reason?
<IdleOne> 10.04.2 is a point release
<penguin42> mt1mma: Don't confuse the alpha or beta of 11.04 with update's of 10.04
<IdleOne> it is supposed to be like that :)
<yofel> LTS releases get regular point releases so the installation images are updated
<penguin42> although I can see it being a little confusing having it on the Natty Release schedule
<IdleOne> penguin42: agreed
<mt1mma> I thought it was my first contribution to the Ubuntu community, :-(
<vish> mt1mma: no worries.. there are several other wiki you can correct ;)
<IdleOne> mt1mma: it was, you noticed something and thought it was wrong and reported it. Thank you.
<mt1mma> :-)
<vish> oh great! i got unity working on VirtualBox4 and now i borked the settings.. :/
<IdleOne> ha
<vish> ccsm is evil ;p
 * penguin42 wonders why natty is blatantly ignoring my choice of chromium as default browser
<speedvin> penguin42: hmm
<speedvin> penguin42: I think chromium will be bloat at some time....
 * penguin42 is happy with it mostly, but still, it would be nice if the rest of gnome didn't ignore it - maverick was OK with it, and the Preferred application is still showing it
<bjsnider> penguin42, it's a surreptitious deal between mozilla and canonical
<penguin42> bah!
<bjsnider> they're coming for all of your personal data next
 * penguin42 assumed they had that anyway
<bjsnider> they even know the length of your fingernails
<bjsnider> it's all for the miracle of targeted advertising
<knittl> grml, had a kernel panic during system upgrade to natty
<knittl> i ran dpkg --configure -a now
<penguin42> messy
<knittl> what's next? aptitude dist-upgrade?
<knittl> wants to remove lots of packages, such as byobu
<penguin42> knittl: How long had it been going for?
<knittl> penguin42: it crashed during the last 5 minutes
<penguin42> knittl: Hmm, it's probably going to take a bit of hand fixing, but I'd do an apt-get dist-upgrade and hope it sorts itself out followed by an apt-get install ubuntu-desktop at the end before rebooting
<knittl> penguin42: ok, so apt-get instead of aptitude?
<penguin42> knittl: That's just what I'm more used to
<knittl> ok, apt-get tells me: held back: glade
<penguin42> wouldn't worry about that
<knittl> but aptitude wants to remove packages
<knittl> hm no
<knittl> now it doesn't
<knittl> WEIRD
<knittl> only libglade-something-9:remove and libglade-something-10:install
<knittl> looks good
<penguin42> just make sure ubuntu-desktop is in at the end and you have a fair chance, chances are that there are some damaged files - typically 0 length in a few places
<knittl> hm, k
<knittl> my X won't start though
<knittl> new incompatible ABI with nvidia-173?
<penguin42> don't know, I don't do Nvidia
<knittl> should i try nouveau? i had problems in the past, that nouveau did not wake up from sleep mode
<knittl> ok, i'll just try nouveau, after i try once more with nvidia
<knittl> maybe some packages weren't configured completely
<penguin42> yeh it wouldn't surprise me after a crash like that, you might have to kick a few packages
<knittl> hm, still no X, but high resolution in ttys
<knittl> resolution like nouveau, font like nvidia
<knittl> i have to investigate :]
<knittl> how can i found out which graphics driver is in use?
<knittl> i usually run lsmod | grep nvidia|nouveau
<yofel> check /var/log/Xorg.0.log
<yofel> that'll either have NOUVEAU or NVIDIA lines
<knittl> yofel: good point!
<knittl> nvidia 173 something
<knittl> but then: (EE) failed to load kernel module
<knittl> need to install nouveau then
<yofel> knittl: no
<knittl> should have waited with the upgrade :D
<knittl> yofel: no?
<yofel> sudo mv /etc/X11/xorg.conf{,.bak}
<knittl> ah. ok
<knittl> might have a problem with my dualscreen configuration
<knittl> wheeee, looks good
<yofel> and to make sure you don't have any broken files, running 'sudo debsums -s' might be good
<knittl> debsums? what does that do?
<yofel> check file checksums of files installed by dpkg (md5sum)
<knittl> k, cool :)
<knittl> hm. you don't have 3d
<yofel> a few packaged don't have md5sums, ignore those
<yofel> knittl: afaik you need to install libgl1-mesa-dri-experimental for nouveau 3D
<knittl> is it nouveau now?
<knittl> debsums not found. do i have to install it first?
<yofel> without xorg.conf it should be nouveau
<yofel> yes
<knittl> yep, it's nouveau now
<knittl> yofel: libgl1 is already installed
<yofel> then your card might not be supported
<knittl> hm, ok
<knittl> how can i tell firefox to import settings from firefox-4 beta 9?
<knittl> i think i selected 'ask later' but it's not asking
<knittl> ok, and there are a few (ehem) changed and missing files in the debsums list
<knittl> yofel: what should i do about the mismatched/missing files? apt-get install --reinstall?
<knittl> it's 2 packages
<knittl> libnspr4-dev and libfontconfig1-dev
<yofel> reinstall should do it
<lenios> !paste
<ubottu> For posting multi-line texts into the channel, please use http://paste.ubuntu.com | To post !screenshots use http://tinyurl.com/imagebin | !pastebinit to paste directly from command line | Make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the channel topic.
<lenios> !pastebinit
<ubottu> pastebinit is the command-line equivalent of !pastebin - Command output, or other text can be redirected to pastebinit, which then reports an URL containing the output - To use pastebinit, install the Â« pastebinit Â» package from a package manager - Simple usage: command | pastebinit -b http://paste.ubuntu.com
#ubuntu+1 2010-12-26
<dnivra> i am upgrading from 10.10 to 11.04. i get the error that few packages are corrupt and thus won't be installed. what can i do to install them?
<billybigrigger> anyone else having problems with xterm?
<billybigrigger> i launch it from gnome-terminal and it crashes...and abgx360 is crashing because it's trying to launch an xterm session too
<nirazio> I use Ubuntu 10.10 and I've been shifting back and forth between the desktop and the netbook remix versions. Now I can't find the unity interface on UNR. It still shows as "installed" on the software center. Logging back and logging in on any other mode, gives me the same interface. Any ideas?
<bazhang> nirazio, this channel is for 11.04
<nirazio> bazhang: Oh sorry
<speedvin> Hello!
<yofel> *sigh*, that KDE finally deprecated HAL is good, but now I'm getting insanities from the bug 561479 sort -.-
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 561479 in udisks (Ubuntu Maverick) "Windows executable on unwritable removable media cannot execute with Wine due to lack of executable bit" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/561479
<test> Hi all, just installed Natty and installed the video drivers, and now I'm left without unity or gnome. What is the command to restart unity? When I try unity --replace it says that unity is not installed
<test> restarting after doing all upgrades, brb
<test> i'm back, updates didnt help
<gnomefreak> anyone else having issues with 2.6.37-11 configuring?
 * penguin42 yawns
<scizzo-> penguin42: tired?
<penguin42> just waking up
<scizzo-> penguin42: have a coffee... :)
<gnomefreak> seems we are missing linux-image-generic
<BUGabundo> ehlo :D
<charlie-tca> Has anyone been able to install using the alternate images?
 * penguin42 hasn't tried installs
<UndiFineD> charlie-tca, which ones ?
<charlie-tca> natty ubuntu and xubuntu alternate i386 and amd64 daily images
<charlie-tca> They start the partitioning, then loop back to the start with the language menu
<UndiFineD> have not tried daily, I am running a natty ubuntu i386 in vm
<charlie-tca> I can't even get to entering the user name
<charlie-tca> and I get it on both VirtualBox and Hardware
<UndiFineD> sorry, i had no issue with the pre-alpha1
<UndiFineD> and that is still running
<Martiini> natty fails to upgrade from maverick currently ??
<BUGabundo> no idea
<vish> charlie-tca: works.. http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1325768/Screenshot-Natty%20%5BRunning%5D.png  :)
<BUGabundo> been on natty since day one
<BUGabundo> lol
<IdleOne> same here
<Martiini> I will try forcing dpkg ..
<IdleOne> actually 1 day before day 1
<BUGabundo> IdleOne:  LOL
<BUGabundo> how can that be?
<Martiini> rpm is actually better than deb ..
<IdleOne> BUGabundo: I changed maverick to natty in sources the day before the email was sent out announcing the toolchain dropped
<crimsun> Martiini: trolling isn't appreciated, BTW :)
<vish> charlie-tca: i just had to install the guest additions and activate the 3D accel..!!
<vish> crimsun: lol!
<Martiini> I just upgraded opensuse to factory with no problems .. had to force install 2-3 rpms ..
<Martiini> aptitude just doesnt want to upgrade .. when its broken
<vish> BUGabundo: remember the other day you had a problem with compiz not starting? and error was something about the WM already registered?
<BUGabundo> no
<BUGabundo> but I have the worse memory
<crimsun> Martiini: again, that is no function of rpm or deb. That's a reflection of the developmental state of each distro.
<vish> ;p
<BUGabundo> I still can't start 3D
<IdleOne> why should it upgrade if it knows it is broken
<crimsun> Martiini: so, please, stop trolling. :)
<vish> BUGabundo: i came across he same problem.. it turns out compiz looks for non-existent gconf keys..
<vish> s/he/the
<BUGabundo> weeeeeeeeee
<penguin42> I had problems upgrading yesterday, update-manager complained that it would have to remove ubuntu-desktop but that it wasn't allowed to - I think in the end I came to the conclusion it was a fight with xubuntu-desktop that I also have
<vish> BUGabundo: still no 3D ? what does running compiz from the terminal say?
<IdleOne> crimsun: I once forced my car to go down a hill, the breaks still didn't work when i reached the bottom
<BUGabundo> vish: I'm running compiz, I think
<vish> cool.. :)
<BUGabundo> and im not coragoeus enough to try to run that again
<BUGabundo> last time took me an afternoon to fix
<BUGabundo> I need to upload my photos now
<BUGabundo> will try later, once I flash my phone, and make sure its running lol
<coz_> BUGabundo,  are you running unity desktop?
<BUGabundo> no
<BUGabundo> classic
<coz_> oh
<coz_> BUGabundo,  oh ok
<vish> BUGabundo: well, if compiz is running unity should work.. (mostly) i remember you error and you just need to fix the gconf and you get unity working..
<coz_> BUGabundo,  let me try compiz from terminal see if it restarts
<vish> your*
<BUGabundo> $ psx compi
<BUGabundo> 1000     18971  0.0  0.0  11352   884 pts/1    S+   15:41   0:00 grep --color=auto compi
<BUGabundo> I guess not
<BUGabundo> lol
<coz_> BUGabundo,  is the unity plugin enabled?
<charlie-tca> vish, is that a new install from today using the alternate image?
<vish> charlie-tca: yea, new install from 24's image..
<BUGabundo> coz_: I think so
<BUGabundo> let me start cssm manually and check
<vish> charlie-tca: not alternate..
<charlie-tca> desktop cd is working, alternate cd will not install
<BUGabundo> bahhhh
<coz_> BUGabundo,   if you are in classic gnome its likely unity plugin is disabled
<BUGabundo> ccsm lost all my settings
<BUGabundo> AGAIN
<BUGabundo> :(
<coz_> oooo
<Martiini> anyone know how to force dpkg install packages .. dpkg -i --force-all .. doesnt seem to work
<coz_> anyone in the process of packaging the plugins-extra...?
<Martiini> crimsun, U chinese ? Chen
<coz_> Martiini,  not sure  try    dpkg --force-help
<penguin42> Martiini: Why does it need the force?
<crimsun> Martiini: I'm "crimsun" :)
<Martiini> penguin42, natty upgrade went bad .. as alpha upgrades do ..
<Martiini> about 40 packages fail to install
<penguin42> Martiini: If the --force-all is failing the problem is something else that the installation of the package is trying to use probably
<coz_> Martiini,   just get the alpha cd and clean install it ..yes?
<Martiini> no
<coz_> :)
<Martiini> downgrading back to maverick then .. its only laptop
<coz_> darn fingers
<coz_> Martiini,  its working as well as its going to work with a clean install ... out of curiosity...why not a clean install?
 * penguin42 really could do with debugging the pause he gets during boot on this ---> machine, it was 30 sec on Maverick, it's nearer 85 on Natty, lucid was almost instant
<Martiini> honestly .. opensuse is the most pain-free distro out there .. rpm upgrade/downgrade .. no problems ... I just upgraded my opensuse to latest 2.6.37 factory
<coz_> penguin42,   mmm :)  according to this    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KbkzXiLTk7o
<coz_> Martiini,  maybe opensuse is more a kin  to your personality than ubuntu...yes?
<Martiini> coz_,  linux is still linux .. rpm just upgrades/downgrades more easily
<penguin42> coz_: Hehe - I dunno, I suspect some evil combination of upstart, lvm and udev are conspiring against it - but neither of them are easy to debug during boot; especially since in natty it seems to give a very blank screen during boot
<penguin42> Martiini: Many of us prefer ubuntu/debian because we can't stand rpm - it's all preference (and off topic)
<coz_> penguin42,  yes I have noticed that blank screen  sometimes several times here at boot
<coz_> penguin42,   nvidia?
<penguin42> coz_: Nope, radeon hd4350, open driver
<coz_> mm
<Martiini> u people work for Canonical ?
<coz_> Martiini,  I am sure some do
<penguin42> coz_: I think they're trying again with grub graphical hand off that
 * penguin42 doesn't
<Martiini> humans need biological computers .. this silicon binary processor stuff is getting old ..
<Martiini> more than 50 years old technology now
<penguin42> yeh well, you can fight bugs on those - yuck....
<Martiini> DNA programming
<Martiini> Masters degree in DNA programming and bio-IT
<penguin42> Martiini: Can you take it somewhere relevant?
<Martiini> homo sapiens .. human monkey
<coz_> penguin42,  well at least I know it is not just my system with the blank screen.
<penguin42> let me know if you find a bug#
<coz_> penguin42,  me?
<penguin42> yeh
<coz_> penguin42,  sure  no problem.... right now the biggest thing that bothers me is the refuseal of ubuntuone to login from the gui
<coz_> rather from   ubuntuone-preferences dialog
<penguin42> ah I don't use that
<coz_> penguin42,  I rarely use it myself but wanted to test it on natty... apparenlty  the bug has been reported already  I believe
<coz_> be back a bit later,,, need to go to store
<BUGabundo> wish me luck
<BUGabundo> trying to start compiz
<BUGabundo> WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOT
<BUGabundo> works
<BUGabundo> kinda slow and sluggish
<billybigrigger> anyone else having problems launching xterm?
<BUGabundo> but that's nouevau
<BUGabundo> BILLY!!!!!
<billybigrigger> happy holidays BUGabundo!!!
<BUGabundo> darn
<BUGabundo> I'm left with app changer window on top :(
<penguin42> app changer?
<BUGabundo> application swithcer
<BUGabundo> unticking it from CCSM "fixes" it !
<zleap> hi
<zleap> hi
<scizzo-> hello
<zleap> hi just tried to boot a 11.04 live cd, didn';t get very far
<nit-wit> zleap, is it a dialy and what happened
<zleap> tried to bopt, got past the try ubuntu but, buit then didn't get a desktop
<zleap> i could shutdown ok using the keyboard
<nit-wit> zleap,do you know the graphic card which one
<zleap> old nvidia
<zleap> geforce 4,
<zleap> works fine with 10.04
<holstein> zleap: with compiz?
<nit-wit> zleap, try as soon as you power on hold the shift key down at the menu hit f6 tick nomodeset then ctrl+x to boot
<nit-wit> holstein, is thst correct boot from the f6?
<nit-wit> *that
<BUGabundo> [offtopic] need a few ppl to test this for me: http://pipes.yahoo.com/bugabundo/pt2enÂ 
<holstein> nit-wit: i cant keep track
<holstein> i think so
<holstein> that would be like the old 'safe graphics mode'
<scizzo-> BUGabundo: link doesn't work
<BUGabundo> really?
 * BUGabundo looks
<BUGabundo> works here :\
<BUGabundo> are you sure?
<holstein> BUGabundo: im not sure what im looking at
<holstein> but i see 'running pipe'
<BUGabundo> works fine on firefox and private chromium
<nit-wit> holstein, safe graphics probably needs a radeon driver from the xswat ppa  after installing
<BUGabundo> holstein: trying to have a Âµblog porfile with autotranslatd tweets :P
<holstein> BUGabundo: :)
<holstein> OH
<holstein> here it comes...
<scizzo-> I can't access the link anyway
<holstein> BUGabundo: it took a bit
<BUGabundo> bah
<holstein> not bad though
<holstein> maybe a minute
<charlie-tca> Mine seems stuck at pipes too
<charlie-tca> I get this: Sorry, the page you requested was not found.
<BUGabundo> that's weird
<BUGabundo> lots of ppl open it
<BUGabundo> still a few don't
<BUGabundo> what about http://pipes.yahoo.com/pipes/pipe.info?_id=c9b89e6ed20f89a7c5fb9332f60e107a
<holstein> charlie-tca: what browser ?
 * holstein is on chromium
<BUGabundo> chromium and FF 3.6 work fine here
<scizzo-> BUGabundo: that page works
<charlie-tca> ff and that page opened
<jfi> BUGabundo, http://pipes.yahoo.com/bugabundo/pt2en does not work for ff4
<BUGabundo> let me test
<BUGabundo> wfm
<jfi> ha my irc client try to open ff4 with http://pipes.yahoo.com/bugabundo/pt2en%C2%A0 (note the 2 last chars....) , without it is ok
<BUGabundo> bummer,,,,
<BUGabundo> http://pipes.yahoo.com/bugabundo/pt2en
<BUGabundo> what two chars?
<jfi> %C2%A0
<BUGabundo> ohh there was something on the 1st paste
<jfi> yep
<charlie-tca> yup, that one opened too
<charlie-tca> there was a space on the end of the link the first time?
<jfi> space should be %32
<charlie-tca> I don't know, it showed as a blank space here, and backspacing once lets the first link open
<jfi> yes http://pipes.yahoo.com/bugabundo/pt2en works with ff4
<BUGabundo> ok
<BUGabundo> now need to pipe it :D
<BUGabundo> its gonna be sweet
<BUGabundo> on day, we will all speak our mother language, and everyone else will be able to receive it on theirs
<jfi> I did not know pipes.yahoo.com, quite impressive
<BUGabundo> I love it
<BUGabundo> I use it for a lot of stuff
<BUGabundo> hope they don't find out they are running it, and close it as well
<speedvin> I need to go bye!
<alexander> is there a ubuntu channel for newbs like me
<holstein>   #ubuntu-beginners is a good one :)
<alexander> ty holstein, i`m trying to figure out if i can synch an iphone in ubuntu
<holstein> alexander: music?
<alexander> no actual iphone
<holstein> right
<holstein> you want to sync music?
<holstein> to the phone?
<holstein> im not really sure how those work anyways
<alexander> your better off
<holstein> my droid just syncs through my gmail account
<alexander> droid is opensource i think
<holstein> but most of the media players can easily sync music to any folder
<holstein> a directory on a USB drive or whatever
<alexander> i should of got a droid
<holstein> nah, you'll sort it out :)
<alexander> cheers
#ubuntu+1 2011-12-19
<Ravior> Is there another way to install updates other than through The Update Manager?
<Charybdis> Ravior: Yup.
<Charybdis> Ravior: Through the command line using apt-get.
<FernandoMiguel> !apt-get
<ubottu> APT is the Advanced Package Tool, which together with dpkg forms the basic Ubuntu package management toolkit. Short apt-get manual: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/AptGetHowto - Also see !Synaptic (Gnome), !Adept (KDE) or !KPackageKit (KDE)
<Ravior> sudo apt-get update?
<Charybdis> Ravior: That will update the lists.
<Charybdis> Ravior: sudo apt-get upgrade PACKAGENAME will upgrade individual packages.
<Ravior> I'm not knowledgeable enough to install all packages manually
<Ravior> there like 200 of them
<Charybdis> Then you might use something like aptitude or synaptic.
<Ravior> I'll try that
<Ravior> Thanks!
<Charybdis> Ravior: I think you can also do apt-get -u upgrade
<Charybdis> I think.
<Charybdis> Don't quote me.
<Charybdis> I can't test it, because I'm up to date.
<urlin2u> it's early in the release hope for no breaks but expect them.
<urlin2u> Ravior, you know your on the pre-release channel right? you are running precise?
<Ravior> Yes I am
<Ravior> oh
<Ravior> sudo apt-get -u upgrade worked
<Ravior> Thanks a bunch! :D
<Charybdis> You are welcome.
<sagaci> clicking on the home folder icon in precise, is that supposed to spawn a nautilus seashell icon..?
<pozic> Tm_T: hi, when do you grow a brain?
<Tm_T> bwainssshhh
<chand> Hi
<bazhang> hi
<chand> I can't get right keyboard layout in lightdm then X, I must use setxkbmap to set layout
<iceroot> chand: or /etc/X11/xorg.conf
<chand> iceroot, just empty
<iceroot> chand: then fill it
<iceroot> chand: x is reading all infos at boot from udev, if you want to overwrite the udev-settings use the xorg.conf
<chand> ok i will set keyboard layout  in xorg.conf
<chand> something wrong with udev
<iceroot> chand: yes, i had the same issue some releases before and i used xorg.conf too
<aguitel> i am running 12.04 ,trash have no icon
<aguitel> this is a bug ?
<iceroot> sounds like a bug
<iceroot> !bug | aguitel
<ubottu> aguitel: If you find a bug in Ubuntu or any of its derivatives, please file a bug using the command Â« ubuntu-bug <package> Â» - See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ReportingBugs for other ways to report bugs.
<aguitel> iceroot, anyway to rebuild icons ?
<Ian_Corne> apt-get install gnome-theme-icons-full
<Ian_Corne> or something like that
<aguitel> Ian_Corne, ok
<BluesKaj> hey all
<alex_mayorga> Happy to report that the blue/purple VAIO VPCCW1FFX/L seems to work with no major hiccups
<Daekdroom> I think it's violet
<alex_mayorga> Is there a way to make sure it is running "clean" pangolin?
<Daekdroom> What do you mean by clean?
<alex_mayorga> Daekdroom: confirm there no ocelot "leftovers"
<Daekdroom> alex_mayorga, I think the most likely leftovers are banshee and mono libraries
<alex_mayorga> Daekdroom: any known ways to clean up?
<Daekdroom> alex_mayorga, besides manually removing packages, no
<Daekdroom> Is there any way to check which processes are using harddrive i/o?
<Daekdroom> Ugh. I think firefox is memory leaking
<Daekdroom> After closing all tabs and opening my home page, it went from 600MiB to 280.
<micahg> Daekdroom: yes, but there's work to improve it happening and it should be leaking less with each release, but that use case doesn't show it's leaking memory
<micahg> more memory will be used as more tabs are open
<Daekdroom> I closed all tabs and left my home page open.
<Daekdroom> It was on 280 as opposed to the 120 it uses right when I start it.
<micahg> ah, yeah, so that would be a small leak :)
<micahg> you can go to about:memory to see what it's being used for
<micahg> and file bugs upstream if you have a reproducible test case
<micahg> Daekdroom: also see https://wiki.mozilla.org/Performance/MemShrink
<keffie_jayx> hey after an dist-upgrade in 12.04 I seem to have lost multi-touch, any tips on how to get it back?
<sskalnik> keffie_jayx:  Which packages were upgraded?
<keffie_jayx> how can I check :P 70 packages were removed
<keffie_jayx> sskalnik: I am sorry I am quite new at living on the edge :)
<sskalnik> sudo apt-get install pastebinit
<sskalnik> cat /var/log/dpkg.log | pastebinit
<sskalnik> !pastebin
<ubottu> For posting multi-line texts into the channel, please use http://paste.ubuntu.com | To post !screenshots use http://imagebin.org/?page=add | !pastebinit to paste directly from command line | Make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the channel topic.
<keffie_jayx> sskalnik: thanks
<sskalnik> Post a link to the results and we can see what had been installed or uninstalled.
<keffie_jayx> sskalnik: What package could be missing..
<sskalnik> keffie_jayx:  Paste a link to the contents of your /var/log/dpkg.log and we can see
<keffie_jayx> long file just wanted to help :)
<sskalnik> np
<sskalnik> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/precise/+source/xf86-input-multitouch/1.0~rc2+git20110312-2
<sskalnik> The multitouch package hasn't updated in over a month, so that is probably not the issue.
<keffie_jayx> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/775479/
<keffie_jayx> sskalnik: there long file
<sskalnik> 2011-12-19 11:57:34 status installed gpointing-device-settings 1.5.1-6
<sskalnik> That looks interesting
<keffie_jayx> that was me
<keffie_jayx> I installed it thinking that would make it work
<sskalnik> OK. You're using KDE?
<keffie_jayx> i have it installed
<keffie_jayx> I use unity now
<sskalnik> OK. I assume you've gone through the mouse settings in the Preferences menu?
<keffie_jayx> Mouse and Touchpad settings
<keffie_jayx> two finger scrolling is enabled
<sskalnik> Rebooted since the upgrade today?
<keffie_jayx> yep
<keffie_jayx> the upgrade demanded a reboot
<sskalnik> OK, so that's ruled out.
<alex_mayorga> Daekdroom: try about:memory for Firefox "leaks"
<Daekdroom> alex_mayorga, that I was told already.
<alex_mayorga> Daekdroom: sorry, catching up :(
<sskalnik> keffie_jayx:  I'm afraid I'm stumped on this one. You might check the forums or post there; usually more people can see your post and give a faster response.
<Daekdroom> alex_mayorga, it happens to anyone.
<keffie_jayx> sskalnik: thanks :)
<alex_mayorga> so once I'm on precise, the proper way to stay "current" is apt-get update && apt-get upgrade, right?
<sskalnik> alex_mayorga:  Yes
<sskalnik> alex_mayorga:  Or apt-get dist-upgrade for kernel updates
<alex_mayorga> sskalnik: thanks!
<Pici> I'd expect more than just kernel upgrades to require using dist-upgrade on the alpha/beta.
<alex_mayorga> how often is a dist-upgrade suggested?
<Daekdroom> I try to do it everytime upgrade doesn't upgrade every package (but I don't do it when it breaks stuff)
<keffie_jayx> It is hard to tell
<keffie_jayx> usually python upgrades break predictably
<keffie_jayx> sskalnik: Reading state information... Done
<keffie_jayx> E: Unable to locate package xf86-input-multitouch
<sskalnik> Pici:  You are correct; I oversimplified.
<sskalnik> keffie_jayx:  That could be the issue right there.
<sskalnik> "apt-cache search multitouch" does not bring up that package
<sskalnik> Though it brings up others
<sskalnik> Since Precise is in flux, that package may simply be unavailable at the moment. A similar thing happened a week or two ago for a package I needed. You may simply wait a day or two.
<genii-around> I think the package is named xserver-xorg-input-multitouch
<sskalnik> apt-cache search xf86-input-multitouch
<sskalnik> xserver-xorg-input-mtrack - Multitouch X input driver
<sskalnik> Indeed
<keffie_jayx> sskalnik: excellent, shall wait a day
<keffie_jayx> I remember this happening in the Natty beta cycle
<alex_mayorga> is it normal for dbus-daemon to use 54% CPU? I only got Firefox and a XP VirtualBox
<jelmer> alex_mayorga: no, that's not normal
<jelmer> alex_mayorga: perhaps there is some process doing a lot of dbus communication - is there another process that is using a lot of CPU?
<alex_mayorga> jelmer: plugin-container (most likely Flash) was hogging CPU
<alex_mayorga> jelmer: I've killed the offending process, that apparently caused bug #906471 and caused the touch pad to become non responsive
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 814473 in gnome-settings-daemon (Ubuntu) "duplicate for #906471 gnome-settings-daemon crashed with SIGSEGV in gdk_display_get_event()" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/814473
<alex_mayorga> dbus-daemon is still +50% CPU here
<alex_mayorga> anyway to get my pointer back?
<alex_mayorga> I would contend the duplicity of my bug
<micahg> alex_mayorga: zeitgeist was doing it for me before, do you have an audio CD in your drive?
<alex_mayorga> "synclient TouchpadOff=0" on a terminal got me my touch pad back
 * alex_mayorga pops out the "cup hoder"
<alex_mayorga> micahg: no CD, just dust
<alex_mayorga> Can I de-duplicate what apport marked duplicate?
#ubuntu+1 2011-12-20
<Daekdroom> Hm.
<Daekdroom> How much RAM does unity-panel-service use for you guys? (in x64)
<FernandoMiguel> fernando  2268  1.3  0.3 443444 30436 ?        Sl   Dec19   4:13 /usr/lib/unity/unity-panel-service
<paulo_gomes> hi all
<paulo_gomes> how can i edit the startup applications? the program doesn't show all of them.
<paulo_gomes> i see, the it creates a link in ~/.config/autostart to disable loading. Do i have to do that manualy, or there's some command tha do it?
<paulo_gomes> found it.
<psypher246> hello all.  is anyone else having issues with the update manager. I haven't once been able to update precise using update manager, always bombs out with :It seems that the daemon died.
<urlin2u> have you tried apt-get?
<psypher246> yeah thats fine
<psypher246> i can start update manager and click install updates, then it pauses for about 2 mins then box pops up
<psypher246> The connection to the daemon was lost. Most likely the background daemon crashed.
<psypher246> It seems that the daemon died.
<urlin2u> not helpful but I see this on the UF. http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=11551062
<psypher246> ah, i found this issue from last year but the bug says solved
<psypher246> i will check out that post thougbh, thanks
<psypher246> hello all, anyone else unable to install skype pkg on 64bit? complains about broken dependencies ia32-libs and ia32-libs-multiarch
<jp_Hranice> Hallo. I can not run Precise on my nvidia GeForce 6600. I can not start low-graphic mode too. jiri.podvolecky@volny.cz
<iceroot> jp_Hranice: we need usefull infos like error-messages
<jp_Hranice> iceroot: logs ?
<iceroot> jp_Hranice: something usefull
<jp_Hranice> iceroot: Xorg0.log at http://pastebin.com/kLHZDCFk
<iceroot> [    15.792] (EE) NVIDIA(0): Failed to load the NVIDIA kernel module!
<iceroot> how you installed the drivers?
<iceroot> tried the free-drivers also?
<jp_Hranice> it is clear installation
<iceroot> so you are using the oss-drivers at the moment?
<jp_Hranice> once i try to install nvidia-current by apt-get but now I am unable to run console with net.
<jp_Hranice> iceroot: oss-drivers ? It is driver for sound, is not it ?
<iceroot> oss = open source software
<jp_Hranice> actualy there is nvidia driver installed by apt-get.
<chand> Hi
<chand> with xorg packages from xorg-edgers ppa unity seems broken, gnome-shell works
<alex_mayorga> any clues on what might cause bug 907012 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 907012 in indicator-datetime (Ubuntu) "indicator-datetime uses 80% of RAM or 3.1g" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/907012
<alex_mayorga> anyone using alternate clocks in pangolin?
<alex_mayorga> indicator-datetime is definitely leaking memory, creeping upward of 250m already
<alex_mayorga> any way to kill it for good?
<nhaines>  alex_mayorga is that just when you're using alternate clocks or always?
<alex_mayorga> nhaines: seems to be always as I just removed any alternates and is still hogging RAM 340m right now
<nhaines> alex_mayorga: hmm, that's pretty bad.  :(  Please file a bug!
<nhaines> In the meantime, there should be a package indicator-datetime that you can uninstall to remove it from the panel.
<alex_mayorga> nhaines: did already bug 907012
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 907012 in indicator-datetime (Ubuntu) "indicator-datetime uses 80% of RAM or 3.1g" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/907012
<nhaines> yay!  \o/
<nhaines> Thanks for filing the bug.
<alex_mayorga> I find hard to believe I'm the only one seeing this
<alex_mayorga> nhaines: can you run "top" see if it's the same on your end?
<nhaines> alex_mayorga: I'm not running precise right now because Bluetooth wasn't working with the alpha 1 ISO, but I do intend to test again in the next day or two.
<alex_mayorga> nhaines: bluetooth audio worked last I checked
 * alex_mayorga knocks on wood
<nhaines> I didn't get an indicator applet for Bluetooth.  But I'll grab a daily ISO and burn it today.  :)
<FernandoMiguel> evening
<FernandoMiguel> hummm what is gnome-contacts ?
<pangolin> !info gnome-contacts
<ubottu> gnome-contacts (source: gnome-contacts): Contacts manager for gnome. In component universe, is optional. Version 3.2.0.1-0ubuntu2 (oneiric), package size 198 kB, installed size 1184 kB
<FernandoMiguel> pangolin: it just got pulled into my system
<FernandoMiguel> wondering where it comes from and what it will give me
<FernandoMiguel> gnome-contacts
<FernandoMiguel> Reverse Depends:
<FernandoMiguel>   gnome-contacts:i386
<FernandoMiguel>   gnome-shell
<FernandoMiguel>   gnome-core
<bjsnider> FernandoMiguel, works in conjunction with gnome-shell's user menu
<bjsnider> it should also be pulling in gnome-documents
<FernandoMiguel> gnome-documents:
<FernandoMiguel>   Installed: (none)
<FernandoMiguel>   Candidate: 0.2.1-1
<FernandoMiguel> bjsnider: ^^^^
<FernandoMiguel> gnome-documents
<FernandoMiguel> Reverse Depends:
<FernandoMiguel>   gnome-documents:i386
<bjsnider> hm, that is part of gnome now
<bjsnider> it's not absolutely life-thretening that you have it, but it's a new part of gnome
<bjsnider> those two and gnome-sushi are all part of the "new" gnome
<FernandoMiguel> it's those little bugs on updates
<alex_mayorga> really no one sees /usr/lib/indicator-datetime/indicator-datetime-service leaking like crazy?
<FernandoMiguel> alex_mayorga: no
<genii-around> alex_mayorga: Not here either
<alex_mayorga> FernandoMiguel, genii-around: thanks! I wonder what could be causing bug 907012 for me then
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 907012 in indicator-datetime (Ubuntu) "indicator-datetime uses 80% of RAM or 3.1g" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/907012
<alex_mayorga> FernandoMiguel, genii-around: do you use alternate clocks?
<genii-around> Standard clock
<FernandoMiguel> me too
<alex_mayorga> can you add an alternate one and see if it goes crazy?
<alex_mayorga> FernandoMiguel, genii-around: did you try?
<FernandoMiguel> no
<FernandoMiguel> not even an idea on how to get one of those
<genii-around> alex_mayorga: I can't have the machine getting slower and slower right now, I'm doing a large rsync
<alex_mayorga> genii-around: I see
<FernandoMiguel> genii-around: nohup :P
<alex_mayorga> FernandoMiguel: click the clock, time&date settings, clock tab, click choose locations...
<alex_mayorga> FernandoMiguel: then add a couple there using the green plus sign
<alex_mayorga> FernandoMiguel: load top on a terminal and watch your RAM get consumed :)
<FernandoMiguel> ok
<FernandoMiguel> while I test that, can you install openuniverse and open it?
<alex_mayorga>  !info openuniverse
<ubottu> openuniverse (source: openuniverse): 3D Universe Simulator. In component universe, is optional. Version 1.0beta3.1+dfsg-1build1 (oneiric), package size 111 kB, installed size 448 kB
<FernandoMiguel> it crashes X on my side
<alex_mayorga> FernandoMiguel: installing
<bjsnider> "crash" is such an ugly word
<bjsnider> i prefer to think of it as an unscheduled interruption
<alex_mayorga> FernandoMiguel: loaded just fine here, I can see Earth
<FernandoMiguel> MEM | tot     7.7G  | free  129.6M |  cache   3.3G | dirty   0.2M  | buff  289.6M |  slab  334.4M |               |               |              |               |
<FernandoMiguel> no memory change
<FernandoMiguel> bjsnider: I couldn't type that even if I had to do it to grab lunch
<alex_mayorga> FernandoMiguel: if you click the clock now, do you see the alternate clocks? For me they just flashed for a split second but never really appeared
<FernandoMiguel> changed 3 times
<FernandoMiguel> no mem leaks
<trism> alex_mayorga: which time zone did you add? added one here and the memory usage is unchanged
<alex_mayorga> trism: these https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/indicator-datetime/+bug/907012/+attachment/2641665/+files/Locations.png
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 907012 in indicator-datetime (Ubuntu) "indicator-datetime uses 80% of RAM or 3.1g" [Undecided,New]
<alex_mayorga> but now I've removed them all and the thing still consumes memory really fast
<alex_mayorga> "580m" according to top
<alex_mayorga> if I try to remove indicator-datetime it tries removing most of the desktop :(
<FernandoMiguel> sorry, can't see anything that low on my system
<alex_mayorga> FernandoMiguel: openuniverse seems like a neat new toy, thanks!
<FernandoMiguel>  9702                   0/s                   0/s                  278K                363.8M                20800K                     0K                    0K                fernando                fernando                  0%                 gnome-terminal
<FernandoMiguel> naa don't see indicator there
<FernandoMiguel> alex_mayorga: :/
<FernandoMiguel> I can't run it
<FernandoMiguel> it blows unity/compiz
<FernandoMiguel> alex_mayorga: can you DRAG it around?
<alex_mayorga> FernandoMiguel: tried running it from a console_
<FernandoMiguel> the Windown, I mean
<alex_mayorga> FernandoMiguel: yup! no issue moving the window around
<FernandoMiguel> :(
<alex_mayorga> anyone that can help me debug that RAM hogging process?
<jtaylor> alex_mayorga: running the process under valgrind might give some good clues
<alex_mayorga> jtaylor: n00b here, got a link?
<jtaylor> http://valgrind.org/
<jtaylor> valgrind --leak-check=full --log-file=logfile process-name
<alex_mayorga> jtaylor: thanks
<jtaylor> the process will get very very slow
<alex_mayorga> how can I get indicator-datetime from respawning?
<alex_mayorga> a new process comes up as soon as I kill the current one :(
<alex_mayorga> tried this: valgrind --leak-check=full --log-file=file.log /usr/lib/indicator-datetime/indicator-datetime-service
<alex_mayorga> fot it fails with these messages: libindicator-WARNING **: Name request failed. and Indicator-Datetime-WARNING **: Shutting down service!
<alex_mayorga> does anyone know where the indicator maintainers hang?
<jtaylor> #ubuntu-desktop is probably a good place to look
<urlin2u> alex_mayorga, bat down the street I think. :D
<urlin2u> bar*
<alex_mayorga> there's hope, bug 907012 confirmed 15 or so minutes ago \o/
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 907012 in indicator-datetime (Ubuntu) "indicator-datetime uses 80% of RAM or 3.1g" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/907012
<alex_mayorga> urlin2u: no bar on this street :( perhaps that's the business opportunity I've been looking for...
<urlin2u> alex_mayorga, you never know no do you.
<urlin2u> now*
#ubuntu+1 2011-12-21
<guiri> Hi.  The installer finished without configuring the user.  it boots to  a guest account.  i tried root and admin as the system password, but neither worked.  is there a way to create a default administrative user?
<guiri> I guess I'll have to reinstall since rescue mode tries too.  the entire thing boots fine except for the lack of any user other than 'guest'
<Airon90> Hi you all, I have a problem with Precise: Ubuntu doesn't recognize my mic anymore. Could someone help me in fixing it?
<iceroot> Airon90: is alsamixer showing it?
<Airon90> iceroot: I just checked alsamixer and it recognized the mic but the level was set to 0. Fixed, it was f***ing easy :D
<Airon90> Thank you :)
<ActionParsnip> Has anyone had their whole gui threaten to be uninstalled?
<Airon90> Now I will test the camera I bought years ago :D
<ActionParsnip> Seems there is an smb dep (lubuntu) and gvfs dep (ubuntu) which removed the gui apps from 2 installs when I ran apt-get autoremove. Bugs reported
<micahg> ActionParsnip: I'm working on it
<ActionParsnip> Micahg: np dude. No problem here. Not using the systems for ages now
<ActionParsnip> micahg: thanks  btw :-). We all appreciate devs efforts
<Airon90> Hi you all, could someone help me to make Ubuntu recognize my cam? :)
<aquarius> er. I'm doing a dist-upgrade to get the latest stuff in precise, and I've jsut noticed that it's removing ubuntu-desktop...?
<micahg> aquarius: yes, fixes are being built now
<aquarius> micahg, ok. So... I should not reboot right now, yes?
<aquarius> :)(
<micahg> aquarius: as long as you didn't actually uninstall everything, I think it should be ok, but you should have new binaries within an hour (at least on the main archive) that should not do bad stuff like that
<aquarius> micahg, cool. I'll hold on for a couple of hours and upgrade again :)
<micahg> aquarius: thanks, please let us know if there are any more issues
<micahg> aquarius: can you switch to the main archive mirror and try updating to see if the issue is resolved?
<micahg> aquarius: assuming you're on amd64/i386
<micahg> aquarius: nevermind, I can actually test that myself
<aquarius> micahg, k
<micahg> aquarius: it's not published yet, so hold off :)
 * aquarius holds off :)
<aquarius> (I'm on gb.archive anyway)
<aquarius> micahg, ok, ubuntu-desktop now installs, dist-upgrade complete, all seems ok
<micahg> aquarius: great :)
<aquarius> micahg, thanks for the reassurance :)
<edgy> Hi, after latest updates I couldn't boot my precise which is a guest in kvm. Now, to debug, I wanted to display grub, I tried shift key but it doesn't display
<BluesKaj> hiyas folks
<sskalnik> Is there a better way to get an updated version of the daily build than re-downloading the  image every day?
<edgy> sskalnik: zsync
<edgy> BluesKaj: hi
<sskalnik> Cool
 * edgy wonders how people are living on earth and don't know about zsync/rsync
<BluesKaj> hi edgy, sskalnik
<edgy> can any one help me boot my precise after latest updates
<edgy> Hi, after latest updates I couldn't boot my precise which is a guest in kvm. Now, to debug, I wanted to display grub, I tried shift key but it doesn't display grub menu, I need help
<BluesKaj> edgy, I've only heard of it , and know very little about it
<edgy> BluesKaj: you just do zsync -i oldimage url and it will sync the differences only
<BluesKaj> edgy, hold the shift key down immediately after the bios scrn , not before
<edgy> BluesKaj: I tried but nothing happens, the bios in the virtual machine is a virtual one I guess, so this could be a difference?
<BluesKaj> yes '
<edgy> BluesKaj: did you manage to display grub in a guest machine before?
<sskalnik> edgy:  A noob is me, that's why. Actually going with jigdo right now.
<BluesKaj> yes but I didn't need to use the shift key
<edgy> BluesKaj: actually, I wonder why grub is not displayed by default, there is already more than one kernel
<BluesKaj> edgy, do you have auto login turned on
<edgy> BluesKaj: no
<BluesKaj> which OS is the host and which is the guest?
<edgy> sskalnik: gido is good but AFAIK zsync development is active where jigdo stopped development
<edgy> BluesKaj: both precise
<sskalnik> edgy:  Correct afaik
<sskalnik> edgy:  Any advantage of one over the other for mundane use?
<edgy> sskalnik: I don't know but better be in the safe side
<edgy> sskalnik: I can't even find jigdo files for ubuntu precise, where did you get them?
* ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu+1 to: Discussion and support for Precise Pangolin | Release schedule: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PrecisePangolin/ReleaseSchedule | Oneiric Support in #ubuntu | Alpha 1 Released! http://www.ubuntu.com/testing/precise/alpha1
<sskalnik> edgy:  http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-server/daily/current/
<edgy> sskalnik: good but you won't find it for http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/kubuntu/daily-live/current/
<sskalnik> I actually went with jigdo because the files were right next to the daily ISOs. Path of least resistance. I'll look at zsync, though, on your recommendation; I do enjoy rsync, so I imagine there's some similarity.
<sskalnik> edgy:  True, but in this case server is what I'm working with
<kelevrinika> hey someone just directed me here
<edgy> sskalnik: then it's not a big issue
<sskalnik> edgy:  Indeed
<kelevrinika> are we gonna have better fallback/gnome 2 support in the next release?
<kelevrinika> i miss the old menus
<Daekdroom> There is no "support" for fallback gnome.
<sskalnik> Hrm, zsync does seem simpler than jigdo now that I read up on it. I will use that next time. Thanks for the advice.
<kelevrinika> do you mean that there will be no fallback?
<kelevrinika> your statement seems sarcastic which makes me think you didn't really answer my question.
<sskalnik> kelevrinika:  Daekdroom is probably not being sarcastic. The question was answered; no support for fallback gnome.
<Daekdroom> !info gnome-session-fallback
<ubottu> gnome-session-fallback (source: gnome-session): GNOME Session Manager - GNOME fallback session. In component universe, is optional. Version 3.2.1-0ubuntu1.1 (oneiric), package size 4 kB, installed size 200 kB (Only available for any all)
<Daekdroom> ??universe
<Daekdroom> !universe
<ubottu> The packages in Ubuntu are divided into several sections. More information at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Repositories and http://www.ubuntu.com/project/about-ubuntu/components - See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RecommendedSources for the recommended way to set up your repositories
<Daekdroom> "Canonical does not provide a guarantee of regular security updates for software in the universe component, but will provide these where they are made available by the community."
<Daekdroom> Among other explanations in that link
<bjsnider> gnome-session-fallback is being phased out upstream because they've got llvmpipe able to do software rendering of gnome-shell
<bjsnider> it was always intended as a temporary situation
<edgy> sirs, I am getting a black screen with blue ribbons when I try to boot PP after latest updates, any help?
<kelevrinika> indeed, thank you
<bjsnider> i wouldn't expect any changes in gnome-session-fallback at all. it will just be like it is and then one day disappear
<sskalnik> edgy:  PP?
<sskalnik> edgy:  Oh, nvm
<edgy> sskalnik: precise pangolin
<bjsnider> that's a new feature. it's a blue ribbon distro
<sskalnik> edgy:  Right, took me a second. XD What was updated?
<edgy> sskalnik: nvm means what?
<sskalnik> edgy:  'nevermind'
<edgy> sskalnik: ;)
<sskalnik> Looks like we both learned something new
<sskalnik> But yes, on the subject of the error you're seeing, I'd check the list of what was upgraded.
<edgy> sskalnik: I guess it's a problem with kdm, can someone confirm?
<sskalnik> Nothing in the bug tracker
<sskalnik> Checked the kdm log?
<edgy> sskalnik: I am now installing lxdm to check
<edgy> sskalnik: I couldn't even launch grub so as to access grub menu recovery and check
<BluesKaj> edgy why are you running 2, 12.04 OSes?
<edgy> BluesKaj: I was testing making my main desktop a guest
<edgy> so I migrated all my host settings and data to a guest
<BluesKaj> so you were just logged in as a guest user , you're not running 2 OSes
<edgy> BluesKaj: I am running 2 OSes really, my host is precise and I installed another precise in a kvm machine and booting it every time to test the new env
<edgy> BluesKaj: e.g my host has a hybrid graphics ATI/Intel which is not supported in linux
<BluesKaj> heh , I'm just running 12.04 here and testing as is , and so far so good
<edgy> BluesKaj: so the guest gives me better support for graphics because the emulated hda performs better
<edgy> BluesKaj: did you do an update and dist-upgrade today? are you using kubuntu?
<BluesKaj> edgy, yes and yes :)
<BluesKaj> and yes :)
<edgy> BluesKaj: strange! somehow I lost kde
<edgy> BluesKaj: did you test the shift key with a guest?
<edgy> BluesKaj: please do me a favor and test it, it would be a good experience
<zleap> anyone here
<yofel> !anyone | zleap
<ubottu> zleap: A high percentage of the first questions asked in this channel start with "Does anyone/anybody..." Why not ask your next question (the real one) and find out? See also !details, !gq, and !poll.
<zleap> sorry i am trying to help someone track down a possible bug
<zleap> in 11.04 if i use ctrl-alt num pad it resizes windows
<zleap> on 11.10 this does not seem to happen,  so was wondering if this happened in 12.04
 * zleap is just booting in to 12.04 from cd to have a look
<genii-around> zleap: The ctrl-alt-<numpad +/numpad - > should still work to cycle through available resolutions. it's possible that the video driver only sees one available resolution at the moment however
<zleap> this isn't resoultion,
<zleap> the combination resizes application windows
<zleap> e.g ctrl-alt-num 6 puts this xchat window in the right had side of the screen, 5 puts it full screen and 4 would put it on the left
<zleap> it may be a bug,  according to https://launchpad.net/bugs/892368
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 892368 in unity (Ubuntu) "I can't drag a half-maximized window to be any wider anymore" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<zleap> thanks for your help genii-around
<blair> will 12.04 have qt 4.8 in it?
<zleap> isn't qt kde based
<blair> zleap, yes
<zleap> so its going to be kubuntu i guess
<zleap> hold on
<micahg> umm, KDE is Qt based, not the other way around
<zleap> thats what i meant
<zleap> blair, https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/12.04/LTS-Proposal
<zleap> does that help
<blair> zleap, the page doesn't mention going to qt 4.8; i'll presume they would like to though
<zleap> it seems to suggest they would like to go to qt5
<EvilResistance> *coughs*
<EvilResistance> blair:  tryin to find you is near impossible :P
<EvilResistance> blair:  from the kubuntu devs channel:
<EvilResistance> <debfx> EvilResistance: qt 4.8 is source and binary compatible
<EvilResistance> <ScottK> We're planning on shipping 4.8.
<yofel> zleap: no, qt5 won't be ready for 12.04 - and it's not LTS material, precise will get 4.8
<EvilResistance> to answer your questions in #kubuntu (when we sent you here, i stared poking the MOTUs trying to find the kubuntu devs channel)
<zleap> ok
<zleap> well i tried to help
<blair> EvilResistance, thanks for tracking me down and answering the question
<passeride> anyone know why is banshee replaced?
<passeride> hey, is 12.04 stable nuff for primary desktop?
#ubuntu+1 2011-12-22
<histo> EvilResistance: #kubuntu-dev or -devel whouldn't it be?
<histo> !away | kholerabbi|away
<ubottu> kholerabbi|away: Please do not use noisy away messages and nicks in Ubuntu channels. It is annoying and unnecessary. Use the command "/away <reason>" to set your client away silently. See also Â«/msg ubottu GuidelinesÂ»
<alex_mayorga> What's the script that launches indicator-*
<alex_mayorga> ?
<trism> alex_mayorga: the indicator-*-service are launched by dbus when they are accessed, specified in /usr/share/dbus-1/services/indicator-*.service
<alex_mayorga> trism: thanks! I'm trying to get the valgrind requested on bug 907012 and could use a helping hand ;-)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 907012 in indicator-datetime (Ubuntu) "indicator-datetime uses 80% of RAM or 3.1g" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/907012
<EvilResistance> histo, yes, #kubuntu-devel, but that guy's question was asked in #kubuntu, and the MOTUs sent me to #k-devel
<EvilResistance> (k = kubuntu)
<alex_mayorga> trism: so I just need to modify the Exec entry at /usr/share/dbus-1/services/indicator-datetime.service ?
<trism> alex_mayorga: after a bit of experimentation, this seems to work: http://paste.ubuntu.com/778142/ , could probably just use valgrind but I figured in case indicator-datetime-service respawned, don't want to overwrite the log
<trism> alex_mayorga: then just log out/back in, reproduce the issue for a while and log out/back in and you will have a log in /tmp/indicator-datetime-*.log
<alex_mayorga> trism: looking into it Thanks!
<alex_mayorga> trism: any way around the log out/in? Christmas tunes are blasting from this system :(
<trism> alex_mayorga: you could try just killing the process, but you should also restart unity-panel-service so you get a clean set of indicators
<alex_mayorga> trism: what's the command for the later?
<trism> alex_mayorga: just kill it, it should respawn
<alex_mayorga> the process was already killed from my previous attempt
<alex_mayorga> trying
<alex_mayorga> trism: that seemed to do the trick, I now see a couple of logs on /tmp
<alex_mayorga> trism: thanks a bunch!
<alex_mayorga> I've posted a couple of valgrind results to bug 907012 FWIW trism
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 907012 in indicator-datetime (Ubuntu) "indicator-datetime uses 80% of RAM or 3.1g" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/907012
<paulo_gomes> hi all, is there a plugin for jamendo in rythmbox?
<dr3mro> hello .. I have an Idea for precise+1 : That is to rewrite all current Apps that in python like software center and others in Vala and create an ubuntu development environment that will ease the new developers to create projects for ubuntu .. windows got all the apps because it's easier to develop and maintain projects than in linux ..
<dr3mro> we need to rewrite compiz for low memory usage  too so plain ubuntu install shouldn't use more than 300MB as windows 8 airms for 256 Mb only we should be prepaired
<dr3mro> else we could write unity for mutter if it's difficult to make compiz rewrite as for now unity is great but memory hug and perormance is uncomparable for gnome shell
<BluesKaj> Hi all
<LjL> can you confirm for me that ia32-libs is not currently installable?
<Daekdroom> I thought it was being deprecated in favour of multiarch.
<FernandoMiguel> it was yesterday
<FernandoMiguel> Daekdroom: no, not really
<FernandoMiguel> it will comeback
<FernandoMiguel> once all other depencies are done
<LjL> right now it depends on multiarch, which isn't around
<LjL> or so my apt tells me
<FernandoMiguel> LjL: don't use apt.... use gdebi
<FernandoMiguel> it should be able to fill in the gaps...
<FernandoMiguel> *if* the rest of the packages are there
<FernandoMiguel> LjL: what are you trying to install?
<LjL> FernandoMiguel: skype :(
<FernandoMiguel> from what I can tell, most google apps and skype still can't
<FernandoMiguel> ehehe
<FernandoMiguel> damn.... my touchpad is a MESS
<BluesKaj> BBL, errands ...
<FernandoMiguel> https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=fa9DLxDtPtc
<FernandoMiguel> ffuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu
<FernandoMiguel> my touchpad isn't working :/
<FernandoMiguel> just goes up and down
<FernandoMiguel> very hard to move side ways ......
<FernandoMiguel> seems it *wants* to stick to the right side scroolbar :/
<FernandoMiguel> HALP
<FernandoMiguel> rebooting seems to have fixed my touchpad probs.... for now
<yofel> hm, skype works fine for me with multiarch - just wine is uninstallable
<FernandoMiguel> cool
<FernandoMiguel> need to try google plugin then
<genii-around> For the Kubuntu people running the PPA 4.7.90 whose showdesktop widget went away and not happy with ctrl-F12 ... the project neon one works fine if you copy /opt/project-neon/lib/kde4/plasma_applet_showdesktop.so to /usr/lib/kde4    and /opt/project-neon/share/kde4/services/plasma-applet-showdesktop.desktop to /usr/share/kde4/services
<jo-erlend> does the graphical installer support btrfs?
<yofel> it does
<yofel> it'll create a / (@) and /home (@home) subvolume by default
<yofel> jo-erlend: ^
<jo-erlend> yofel, but if I already have a home partition, that's not a problem, right?
<jo-erlend> I don't think I want to use it for home yet.
<yofel> no, if you tell the partitioner that you have one it simply won't create @home
<jo-erlend> right. That sounds cool.
<reisio> is this not-gonna-fit-on-a-CD idea still going on?
<sskalnik> Seems so.
#ubuntu+1 2011-12-23
<yofel> firefox 10 o.O? Just how fast are they using up release numbers now...
<reisio> meh
<reisio> yofel: as fast as it gets them tied with Google Chrome
<yofel> true -.-
<FernandoMiguel> ahah
<reisio> yofel: http://dpaste.com/hold/676893/
<FernandoMiguel>   Installed: 10.0~a2~hg20111219r80799-0ubuntu1~umd1
<FernandoMiguel> reisio: TROLOLOLOL
<FernandoMiguel> you know it's there for a good reason, right?
<reisio> FernandoMiguel: yeah to make me want to stab things
 * yofel figured FernandoMiguel would already be running it :D
<FernandoMiguel> yofel: on aurora
<FernandoMiguel> no updates in 10h?
<FernandoMiguel> are we in freeze? or has everyone gone home for xtmas?
<yofel> latter I would believe - although -changes has stuff coming in
<FernandoMiguel> nite
<wildcrazyhorse> My Ubuntu 11.04 Natty is locking up my computer often. The screen freezes but the mouse still moves around. I have to cold reboot the computer and start all over again. What can I do to fix this problem?
<wildcrazyhorse> does anyone know of a fix for this problem?
<pangolin> 11.04 in #ubuntu
<wildcrazyhorse> yes..i am running 11.04 version
<bjsnider> !topic
<ubottu> Please read the channel topic whenever you enter, as it contains important information. To view it at any time after joining, simply type /topic
<FernandoMiguel> !firefox 11 memory usage: 184.05 MB #MEGAWIN
<ubottu> FernandoMiguel: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<nyuszika7h> [12:12] * ARBALEST_ has quit (Quit)
<nyuszika7h> Wrong tab. Autoattach
<matrixiumn> hello
<david> If Ubuntu 12.04 uses the new Unity interface, I am leaving Ubuntu.
<Guest77615> If Ubuntu 12.04 uses the new Unity interface, I am leaving Ubuntu.
<Pici> okay.
<BluesKaj> Hiyas all
<Fernando_xtmas> Merry Xtmas buddies http://goo.gl/58Kc7
<BluesKaj> hmm, kde 4.7.9 beta doesn't list folders when called up as root
<aguitel> anyway to install old kernel in 12.04 ?
<aguitel> serie 2.6.38 or 2.6.39
<aguitel> anyway to install old kernel in 12.04 ?
<EvilResistance> !repeat
<ubottu> Don't feel ignored and repeat your question quickly; if nobody knows your answer, nobody will answer you. While you wait, try searching https://help.ubuntu.com or http://ubuntuforums.org or http://askubuntu.com/
<EvilResistance> aguitel:  ^
<aguitel> kernel serie 3.xx break my system in gnome or lxde
#ubuntu+1 2011-12-24
<teratoma> does this version use unity ?
<Daekdroom> Yes.
<teratoma> darn
<urlin2u> lucid and maverick are gnmoe2
<stjohnmedrano> good day, any idea on icedtea6-plugin? i currently running 12.04 but the plugin doesnt seem to work, just a newbie. tnx
<aguitel> kernel 3.x freeze when my system become inactive ,i install old kernel (2.6.39) and fix this issue
<Fernando_xtmas> morning
<aguitel> how install gnome 3 in 12.04 ?
<Fernando_xtmas> !gnome-shell
<Fernando_xtmas> !gnome3
<ubottu> Oneiric will use GNOME 3.x packages. The 3.x packages will be landing soon, if not yet updated, it'll happen soonish. You can also help the desktop team update packages, ask in #ubuntu-desktop for more info on helping the team.
<Fernando_xtmas> aguitel: ^^^^^
<BluesKaj_> Hey All , Merry Christmas! :)
<penguin42> Hey BK
<BluesKaj_> hi penguin42 , Merry Christamas ! :)
<penguin42> and a merry Christmas to you sir
<BluesKaj_> oops , Merry Christmas , even :)
<BluesKaj_> we have a bit of snow . just barely enough to make the ground white
<penguin42> we had some about a week ago; but it's warmed up in the last few days - apparently 7c, going to go out to meet a friend
<meerkats> are there plans to improve the classic view in 12.04 or, users who dont wish to use unity will have to use the fallback version?
<Daekdroom> meerkats, the classic gnome is not officially supported by Canonical or the Ubuntu community. All is done is that it's packaged.
#ubuntu+1 2011-12-25
<yofel> now this is interesting. with kernel 3.2: the moment I disconnect my thinkpad's 2nd battery the bay drive is force-disconnected o.O
<penguin42> oh bizarre
<Ian_Corne> lol
<penguin42> you could try bisecting where it changed behaviour
<yofel> for now i'll reboot to get rid of the I/O errors....
<yofel> filed a bug in any case
 * yofel is off to bed - merry christmas everyone :)
<penguin42> hmm never seen that before - Unity has a gap in it's short cut numbering
<BluesKaj_> Hi to all , and to all a very Merry Christmas
 * penguin42 jingles at BluesKaj_
<BluesKaj_> hey penguin42 , are you till running KDE , if so have you tried 4.7.4 ?
<penguin42> BluesKaj_: I'm on KDE on latest PP - now the version lists as 4.7.90.x in the packages
<BluesKaj_> yes , sorry I meant 4.7.9
<pangolin> Thank you BluesKaj_ and the same to you.
<pangolin> We are getting a light snow fall on Christmas morning, looks like a scene from a postcard :)
<BluesKaj_> dolphin isn't listing folders in dirs like /usr/bin and lib and icons drageed to the dwsktop don't launch , just gives an "init filed to launch error"
<penguin42> let me try
<BluesKaj_> yes , pangolin we finally got some snow yesterday , quite Christamssy here
<penguin42> BluesKaj_: It's letting me navigate to /usr/bin and go into /usr/bin/X11
 * BluesKaj_ sheds more light on the KB
<penguin42> BluesKaj_: And dragging stuff to desktop launches for me
<penguin42> at least with PP I won't need to keep forward porting my LUKS patch for KDE
<BluesKaj_> heh , this pc is in my den, the other is ourmedia server in the TV room , but this pc (4.7.9) at least shows the the folders as root in the dirs like usr/lib etc, but doesn't launch apps from the desktop.
<BluesKaj_> anyway konqueror has no such problems :)
<penguin42> hmm - Synergys seems to have gained a reliable crasher in the last few days
<penguin42> hmm not that gdb wants to help today
<penguin42> gah, someone already fixed it upstream
<bjsnider> penguin42, create a patch, then do an lp branch and propose it for merging
<penguin42> bjsnider: Might make sense just to pull upstream
<bjsnider> is it a newer version or just trunk?
<penguin42> trunk, not sure when they do releases
<bjsnider> so there might not be another one before april
<bjsnider> and this problem might not get fixed without your intervention
<penguin42> wow - he has a gant chart upstream - so his next 1.3.x release is between April/May - so it will miss
<penguin42> he also has a new release on his dev branch at the end of Jan which is probably also a bit close
<penguin42> right, I'll grab the upstream patch after I make dinner and then fight with bzr
<bjsnider> i can walk you through it if you're a rookie
<penguin42> I've done it a handful of times
<penguin42> but 1st - time to make a pudding
<penguin42> hmm that's one I've not come across before; the bzr link on the package points to http://bzr.licquia.org/synergy/debian/    but I guess I want to make a change against the lp hosted bzr, so should use ubuntu:synergy instead?
<Ampelbein> penguin42: The bzr link in the package is where the maintainer stores his packaging information. If you want to make a patch, ubuntu:synergy is indeed the correct location most of the time. There are exceptions though.
<Ampelbein> Like the desktop team, which has it's own branches.
<penguin42> Ampelbein: This is on synergy; I think this is a bzr hosted by the debian packager; it's also a little confusing since the fix upstream has committed the original patcher has agreed with another patcher that there patch is better
<meerkats> are you going to get rid of mono?
<penguin42> Ampelbein: right, I think I've done that  and pushed a merge request
<penguin42> meerkats: That seems to be the general direction of things; a lot less Gnome stuff uses it now
<meerkats> i see
<penguin42> (I'm not sure what the official position in)
<meerkats> I use mono to play openbve will I still have the chance to use it?
<Ampelbein> penguin42: about synergy, please add DEP-3 patch headers (http://dep.debian.net/deps/dep3/). In the header you could include the bit about why you took that patch instead of the original one applied upstream.
<penguin42> Ampelbein: So that would go at the start of the actual patch file in debian/patches ?
<Ampelbein> penguin42: Correct. Dep3 headers, empty line, patch.
<penguin42> Ampelbein: OK thanks, I'll do that in a little while
<Ampelbein> Thank you!
<Ampelbein> Oh, nice, vlc's status icon has a little christmas hat.
<penguin42> if I bzr commit that to my local bzr and bzr push that to the same location, is that the right thing to do or do I do a separate push to a new location?
<Ampelbein> just push to the same location, the merge proposal should be automatically updated
<penguin42> ok, I need to disappear for an hour or so - I'll do it later
<Ampelbein> No worries. I'll be heading off soon-ish too.
<bjsnider> "get rid of" mean not on the cd anymore, not "will not be available in ubuntu at all"
<penguin42> Ampelbein: Pushed with some dep3 tags
#ubuntu+1 2012-12-17
<SIR_Taco> hmmm... update-initramfs -u core dumps
<dupondje> Somebody around here that knows alot from data recovery ?
<dupondje> photorec etc .. :D
<gnomefreak> can anyone confirm that your menus are blank? here is a screenshot of the menu http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/7163/201211141108381600x900s.png
<aljosa> ctrl+alt+f[1-6] gives me blank/black screen. any idea why? something grub related or some kind of bug?
<SIR_Taco> anyone else having a problem installing nvidia drivers at the moment?
<hggdh> SIR_Taco: nvidia experimental is  working here (but did not try to reinstall)
<SIR_Taco> hmm... well I think my problem might be with initramfs not working at the moment and not updating my images correctly. I'll wait it out a few more days maybe
<hggdh> SIR_Taco: bug 1073062 perhaps?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1073062 in kmod (Ubuntu) "modprobe: Assertion `kmod_module_get_initstate(m) == KMOD_MODULE_BUILTIN' failed" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1073062
<SIR_Taco> hggdh: that would be it, thanks
<hggdh> SIR_Taco: in my case, it is nouveau that gets hit...
<SIR_Taco> strange
<SIR_Taco> hggdh: it just so happened to hit when I switched experimental drivers, so I figured they buggered something up, I guess it was initramfs-tools all along
<hggdh> SIR_Taco: this may (now, with hindsight) have been the problem I had with nouveau before, that forced me to go nvidia. IDK, but nvidia experimental is working (nvidia-release did not, not really), and I do not want to mess up the system again
<SIR_Taco> hggdh: I've tried current, current-updates, experimental_304 and experimental_310. Just says they're active but not in use and falls back to nouveau
<SIR_Taco> or more like vesa
<hggdh> SIR_Taco: did you try to --purge them before installing another? IN my case it worked (with experimental-310)
<SIR_Taco> hggdh: did that too
<hggdh> ugh
<SIR_Taco> I'll plug away at it... the solution will come in time :)
<SIR_Taco> brb
<FernandoMiguel> who can I persuade to upgrade libusbx to 1.0.14? http://sourceforge.net/projects/libusbx/files/releases/
<FernandoMiguel> we have 1.012, 6 month old, and won't work with some tools
#ubuntu+1 2012-12-18
<IdleOne> !info python
<ubottu> python (source: python-defaults): interactive high-level object-oriented language (default version). In component main, is optional. Version 2.7.3-0ubuntu7 (raring), package size 163 kB, installed size 658 kB
<Walther> Trying to launch ubuntu one: Failure: ubuntuone.platform.tools.linux.IPCError: org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.Spawn.ChildExited:
#ubuntu+1 2012-12-19
<ikonia> !info samba4
<ubottu> samba4 (source: samba4): SMB/CIFS file, NT domain and active directory server (version 4). In component universe, is optional. Version 4.0.0+dfsg1-1 (raring), package size 1672 kB, installed size 10849 kB
<varikonniemi> hello! Does raid setup already found its way back in 13.04 ?
<ikonia> ?
<varikonniemi> i had a 12.04 install, that installed fine with raid1. Then i screwed it up, and needed to reinstall to have a clean setup
<varikonniemi> then it was already 12.10, and no raid
<varikonniemi> so i have just left the computer waiting
<varikonniemi> for 13.04 raid, but am starting to think maybe i should just push 12.04 again on there and forget about raid support in degvelopment version
<varikonniemi> the only thing that stops me from doing it is that 12.10 is the first version that does not mutilate my dinovo kbd+touchpad+mouse
<varikonniemi> so every possible way i can think of using ubuntu, t is fucked up
<Tm_T> varikonniemi: we're talking about software raid in installer here, right?
<varikonniemi> yes
<varikonniemi> i hope there have not been many different borken RAID implementations with 12.10 :DD
<aqua> adakah org Indonesia disini?
<gac> varikonniemi: surely you can install 12.04 and enable RAID in the installer, and then do-release-upgrade to 12.10 straightaway and keep your existing RAID?
<varikonniemi> gac, yes if i would have a spare kbd to do the installing with. For some inexplicable reason ubuntu drops the kbd/mouse when kernel is loaded.
<varikonniemi> needs editing of some usb2hci file or something to get it working..
<varikonniemi> i'm mainly asking someone in the development process when i can expect this feature back in the daily images?
<varikonniemi> raid setup
#ubuntu+1 2012-12-20
<DredTiger> So anyone in here right now done a dist-upgrade from quantal to raring on an early 2011 MBP?
<crf> Synaptic is crashing when I select some particular entries in the "Not Installed (residual config)" section. The entries that cause the crash have a package name, but nothing in the Installed Version (since they are not installed, I guess), Latest Version, or Description. )
<crf> Entries that have a Description or Latest Version don't crash synaptic.
<gnomefreak> anyone up to help me confirm a bug in unity/apport
<marenostrum> !is it out
<ubottu> marenostrum: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<marenostrum> !doomsday
<marenostrum> !Apocalypse
<ibi> hello, I have an Acer Aspire One with 32bit Ubuntu 12.04 installed, and my WebCam doesnt work, I couldnt get proper answer googling. How can i make it work? my lsusb output for this: Bus 001 Device 003: ID 0c45:62c0 Microdia Sonix USB 2.0 Camera
<ibi> a video0 device exists
<Gamer1990_> I want to know is it possible to do a distribution upgrade from 12.10 to 13.04?
<Gamer1990_> it is "Ubuntu"
<Gamer1990_> kinda like : apt-get etc etc
<Gamer1990_> i'm not too sure how it is done.
<Gamer1990_> !13.04
<ubottu> Ubuntu 13.04 (Raring Ringtail) will be the 18th release of Ubuntu, Discussion and support until final release in #ubuntu+1
<Gamer1990_> !update
<ubottu> For upgrading, see the instructions at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UpgradeNotes - see also http://www.ubuntu.com/desktop/get-ubuntu/upgrade
<jtaylor> yey finally managed to crash steam, I was surprised it held out so long ;)
<jtaylor> ironically it crashed when I clicked on the github bug reporting link :D
<bjsnider> some sort of webgl thing?
#ubuntu+1 2012-12-21
<gnomefreak> i really hate bugs atm
<bjsnider> yeah, i do too, especially ants, earwigs, and boxelder bugs
<cjohnston> I just upgraded to +1, network manager is going crazy with 100% cpu usage after boot.. I'm unable to connect to the internet because of it.. has anyone elsee seen this? service network-manager restart nor kill don't seem to be able to kill the process either
#ubuntu+1 2012-12-22
<Fudge> howdy
<Daekdroom> !daily
<ubottu> Daily builds of the CD images of the current development version of Ubuntu are available at http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/current/
<Daekdroom> Hm. I don't think I should upgrade earlier in the development this time because I have so much stuff from the Software Centre.
<penguin42> I do wonder how the numbers are working this time for non-kubuntu/edubuntu people where there isn't actually an alpha
<Fudge> or even how pollished it will be without the extra community support
#ubuntu+1 2012-12-23
<bandit-led> ideas for getting nvidia and kernel 3.8rc1 going?
<IdleOne> !daily
<ubottu> Daily builds of the CD images of the current development version of Ubuntu are available at http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/current/
<penguin42> yofel: I had a minor nit on a recent KDE update - the standard grey sunburst background went and that left me with a black background; hitting the install-backgrounds got me them all back
<yofel> the default wallpaper changed, and it seems we forgot to auto-update that
<yofel> Elarun is the new default
<penguin42> is that the purpeley one ?
<yofel> yep
<penguin42> yeh, got that on the kdm - it's a bit dark for me on my main desktop, I don't get enough contrast on stuff in transparent windows for my liking
<penguin42> oddly the sunray one doesn't seem to have a name other than '1920x1200'
<yofel> penguin42: that's I think the default symlink - which is still pointing to Ariya.
<yofel> I fixed that in kde-wallpapers ubuntu2
<AlanBell> does 13.04 iso boot to a grub menu at the moment?
<AlanBell> it does for me using the ISO copied to a USB stick I think
<AlanBell> Bug #1093303 would be a nice simple bug for someone to confirm if you have a few minutes
<ubottu> bug 1093303 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "can't switch from orca to ubiquity in the 13.04 install" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1093303
<AlanBell> boot up the install CD, after the drums hit ctrl+s, then try to get focus back on ubiquity without using the mouse
<penguin42> hmph, my android eclipse install has broken again, it does this pretty regularly
<penguin42> it looks like I'm hitting https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=760454  but frankly I haven't got a clue about eclipses internals to know
<ubottu> bugzilla.redhat.com bug 760454 in eclipse "update to 3.7.1-7 breaks pydev (and others)" [Unspecified,Closed: currentrelease]
<yoasif> hi -- what is the best way to report an issue i am having with the bcmwl-kernel-source package?
<yoasif> i downgraded the package and everything is working finr
<yoasif> fine**
<ikonia> use launchpad or the bug reporting tool
<yoasif> ikonia: yes, when seeing the issue, or when not seeing the issue... when i am seeing the issue, the machine is almost unusable... networkmanager goes to 100%
<ikonia> so report the bug
#ubuntu+1 2013-12-16
<Noskcaj> Is anyone else having issues with the latest trusty kernal? I can't get it to boot
<elfy> Noskcaj: what version is that
<Noskcaj> 3.12.0-7
<Noskcaj> Any package install in synaptic gives http://paste.ubuntu.com/6582450/
<elfy> not had any issues with that at all - auto updating is all fubar here for the kernel atm - just checking there wasn't one I'd missed
<elfy> you tried purging and reinstall the kernel packages?
<Noskcaj> Any specific way of doing that?
<elfy> sudo apt-get --purge linux-image-3.12.0-7-generic linux-image-extra-3.12.0-7-generic linux-headers-3.12.0-7 linux-headers-3.12.0-7-generic would work for those I happen to have installed
<Noskcaj> I assume you meant without the --
<elfy> oh yea - sorry - that had a remove before it - which you don't need ...
<cjohnston> Has anyone else seen an issue where clicking the system settings icon on trust causes the entire system to freeze?
<BluesKaj> Hey folks
<Wubix> hello everybody
<Wubix> is there a way to debootstrap ubuntu 14.04?
<user82> hi. does ubuntu 14.04 support F2FS on installation?
<Wubix> hello again. is there an estimate when a netboot installer will be available for ubuntu+1?
<Pici> Wubix: There should be one available now.
<Pici> They're not advertized on the wiki, but they are present in the the path you would expect them to be: http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/trusty/main/installer-i386/current/images/netboot/
<Wubix> owww, i was expecting it under cdimage.* :) thanks!
<Wubix> how sweet, this does exactly what i need
<Wubix> before, i was messing with debootstrap and manually editing config files :D
#ubuntu+1 2013-12-17
<nagerst> Hello
<nagerst> How do i fix resolution problems and flickering with the kms nv driver. Running curses apps.
<nagerst> I bet that the resolution is wromg somehow, with the entire screen a bit to far to left.
<nagerst> can i set KMS at 1920x1080@60hz?
<nagerst> If i can find no help here, where should i look?
<brainwash> nagerst: maybe #xorg
<framac> Hi guys I'm thinking to upgrade to trusty but I need to disable the extras repositories, what are the implications of that action?
<framac> Any thoughs?
<BluesKaj> 'Morning folks
<wallzero> I can't install the Cuda toolkit in Trusty. The nvidia-cuda-toolkit relies on nvidia-opencl-dev, which conflicts with nvidia-libopencl1-331 from the nvidia-331 drivers. Please advise.
#ubuntu+1 2013-12-18
<alkisg> I found a bug in Trusty, does someone know about e.g. ssh client changes that might have triggered it? The following work from a 12.04 client but not from a 14.04 client:
<alkisg> tty1# ssh -MS /tmp/socket user@server [OK]
<alkisg> tty2# ssh -S /tmp/socket user@server ls [Control socket connect(/tmp/socket): Connection refused]
<randomcpp> help needed here
<randomcpp> while updating I got this error message from apt-get
<randomcpp> (Reading database ... 274392 files and directories currently installed.)
<randomcpp> Preparing to replace libc6-amd64 2.17-93ubuntu4 (using .../libc6-amd64_2.18-0ubuntu1_i386.deb) ...
<randomcpp> Unpacking replacement libc6-amd64 ...
<randomcpp> Replaced by files in installed package libc6:amd64 ...
<randomcpp> dpkg (subprocess): unable to execute rm command for cleanup (rm): No such file or directory
<randomcpp> dpkg: error while cleaning up:
<randomcpp>  subprocess rm cleanup returned error exit status 2
<randomcpp> dpkg (subprocess): unable to execute split package reassembly (dpkg-split): No such file or director
<randomcpp> y
<randomcpp> dpkg: error processing /var/cache/apt/archives/libc6_2.18-0ubuntu1_i386.deb (--unpack):
<randomcpp>  subprocess dpkg-split returned error exit status 2
<randomcpp> dpkg (subprocess): unable to execute split package reassembly (dpkg-split): No such file or director
<randomcpp> y
<randomcpp> dpkg: error processing /var/cache/apt/archives/libc6_2.18-0ubuntu1_amd64.deb (--unpack):
<randomcpp>  subprocess dpkg-split returned error exit status 2
<randomcpp> Errors were encountered while processing:
<randomcpp>  /var/cache/apt/archives/libc6_2.18-0ubuntu1_i386.deb
<randomcpp>  /var/cache/apt/archives/libc6_2.18-0ubuntu1_amd64.deb
<randomcpp> E: Problem executing scripts DPkg::Post-Invoke 'if [ -d /var/lib/update-notifier ]; then touch /var/
<randomcpp> lib/update-notifier/dpkg-run-stamp; fi; if [ -e /var/lib/update-notifier/updates-available ]; then e
<randomcpp> cho > /var/lib/update-notifier/updates-available; fi '
<randomcpp> E: Sub-process returned an error code
<randomcpp> E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1)
<randomcpp> command_not_found_handler:1: /usr/lib/command-not-found: bad interpreter: /usr/bin/python3: no such
<randomcpp> file or directory
<randomcpp> I can't even launch new applications or command at the moment
<elfy> randomcpp: dude - please don't do that !!!
<k1l_> !paste | randomcpp
<ubottu> randomcpp: For posting multi-line texts into the channel, please use http://paste.ubuntu.com | To post !screenshots use http://imagebin.org/?page=add | !pastebinit to paste directly from command line | Make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the channel topic.
<randomcpp> elfy, I know that but I can't open a browser atm
<randomcpp> :)
<elfy> so?
<elfy> copy it to something then do it later - why should we get blasted with it
<Wubix> !pastebinit randomcpp
<Wubix> awww
<k1l_> i bet some 3rd party packages strike back
<randomcpp> elfy, correction I can't open a browser, because I can't run new instances
<randomcpp> neither with alt+f2 or dash or terminal..
<randomcpp> I can't log in tty yay :D
<randomcpp> ok it did break. Now there's a kernel panic while booting trusty
<randomcpp> it seems it cannot load /bin/init
<elfy> just updated here - libc6 updated ok for me - running from synaptic - all I saw was a libc6 window asking whether to restart things automatically
<randomcpp>  lucky you..is there a way to reinstall libc6 from a livecd?
<elfy> if I was going to be doing that - I'd just reinstall tbh
<randomcpp> ok I'll see what I can do thank you :)
<elfy> sorry I couldn't be of more help
<randomcpp> elfy, don't worry sorry for that copy paste spam
<elfy> :)
<elfy> I've seen worse - lots worse :p
<randomcpp> I couldn't even run echo :/
<randomcpp> at least the pc didn't explode
<elfy> indeed :)
<elfy> I updated with some trepidation when I saw libc6 in the list ...
<randomcpp> it would be nice to know what has caused that error
<elfy> yea - couldn't see anyone else in logs with the same error
<randomcpp> just to prevent it in a future
<elfy> nor anywhere else that I go to look
<randomcpp> :/
<elfy> libc6 is not something you really want to get issues with ...
<randomcpp> yeah I knew that..I'm trying to recall if I did something to libc6
<elfy> :)
<randomcpp> mh, before libc6 apt updated util-linux, but everything seems alright
<Wubix> randomcpp: its not your fault. just a while ago dholbach posted to the developer channel that he has a problem with libc6-amd64
<elfy> that'd be a channel I'd not normally have thought of :)
<Wubix> hehe :)
<randomcpp> Wubix, did he find what was the cause?
<Wubix> randomcpp: he mentioned that it is a problem that should have been fixed before. so i guess he knows more about it
<Wubix> <dholbach> can anyone help me with a libc6 upgrade problem? I'm seeing http://paste.ubuntu.com/6593456/ because of what I believe to be the aftermath of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Emulator (the '/!\ If you are on amd64' bit)
<Wubix> hurry up and catch him on #ubuntu-devel :)
<randomcpp> Wubix, too late
<randomcpp> Wubix, it's a different output though
<randomcpp> http://paste.ubuntu.com/6593483/
<randomcpp> elfy, solved! :D
<elfy> excellent :)
<BluesKaj> 'Morning all
#ubuntu+1 2013-12-19
<BluesKaj> Howsy all
<BluesKaj> need coffee!
<genii> There still seems to be some issue when just sendmail is installed, it gets caught in a loop on the post-install of reading the config file and then trying to configure it. For the moment removed sendmail and just installed postfix.
<genii> Additionally: When there is no default mta, apt-listchanges reverts to using default pager instead of emailing root even if it's config file is set not to wait for confirmation before proceeding
<frogythegreat> Hi. I have a bug on the login screen. Keyboard doesn't respond until I click the keyboard applet in the top task bar. I'm not sure what package or how best to report this?
<trism> frogythegreat: possibly related, bug 1260223
<ubottu> bug 1260223 in unity-greeter (Ubuntu) "randomly is not possible to enter the password [init: indicator-sync main process ended, respawning ]" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1260223
<genii> frogythegreat: Would probably be filed against the lightdm package
<frogythegreat> thx. all. I'll look at those 2 and if not file against lightdm. that makes sense to me.
<frogythegreat> 1260223	
<frogythegreat> yup that's my bug. thx again.
<dkessel> please select "affects me" at the top then ;) thanks
<frogythegreat> :-) also left a comment with my alternate work-around.
<dkessel> great
<dkessel> didn't know that workaround yet... nice. much faster
<frogythegreat> happy accident. but it works so far for me. happens to me EVERY time on login.
<genii> Was there some recent change which now makes it so that file access times are not updated?
<Wubix> the netboot installer fails to load libc6-udeb
<Wubix> what can i do about it?
<randomcpp> is any amd user running trusty here?
<randomcpp> I need an info about the latest `fglrx-update` update
<Wubix> i was until the libc6 broken
<Wubix> was broken//
<Wubix> randomcpp: what kind of info?
<randomcpp> the latest package version is 13.125, but 13.101 (according to amdccle) is still installed
<randomcpp> plus, sometimes the screens flicker
<randomcpp> :/
<randomcpp> uhm..open source drivers aren't that bad, if it wouldn't for the temperature issue
<randomcpp> prop drivers are actually cooler :/
<randomcpp> ok note to all fglrx-updates users: they need to purge the old drivers before installing the new ones, even with normal updates from servers
<randomcpp> additional note: steam does not work. (hurray for my productivity!)
#ubuntu+1 2013-12-20
<somsip> So if I build a test server based on the 14.04 alpha, I can update it as normal and after 4/14 it will be a full release version. Is that right?
<somsip> Looks like it: http://askubuntu.com/questions/5675/i-installed-an-alpha-or-beta-am-i-up-to-date-with-the-final-release-if-i-keep-u
<LuckyWilly> Howdy all, I am trying to find the alpha version of Ubuntu 14.04 by any chance can someone pass me a link?
<trism> LuckyWilly: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/current/ there aren't any alpha images for ubuntu
<LuckyWilly> Only daily builds? I mean I just heard it get released.
<trism> LuckyWilly: although there are ones for other flavors: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/2013/12/19/trusty-alpha-1-released/
<Beldar> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TrustyTahr/ReleaseSchedule
<trism> LuckyWilly: yes it is opt-in for flavors but ubuntu doesn't do them anymore
<LuckyWilly> Ugh, only images for other flavors I gotcha.
<trism> LuckyWilly: the dailys are generally pretty good these days
<Beldar> alpha beta they are only words
<LuckyWilly> trism, No problem I'll check that out nice to know that.
<LuckyWilly> Indeed Beldar though at times they used to have an Alpha and the daily builds were separate.
<LuckyWilly> Overall, I'm just happy to see it's out at this stage.
<LuckyWilly> :)
<LuckyWilly> Don't mean to be a burden. Though there are no torrent links for a few daily builds?
<LuckyWilly> Have a good one guys. :)
<mamarley> Has anyone tried compiling a custom kernel in Trusty?   I just upgraded my chroot from Saucy to Trusty and now I am getting output like http://pastebin.com/2Fw78mgK when I try to compile the kernel.
<mamarley> I dug into the issue and it looks like the comments in the arch/x86/syscalls/syscall_64.tbl file are being processed as data, causing several invalid lines to appear in arch/x86/include/generated/asm/syscalls_64.sh.
<mamarley> It worked fine in Saucy.
<mamarley> And nothing changed about the kernel source tree.  All I did was upgrade to Trusty.
<mamarley> I couldn't figure out what was actually causing the problem, so I figured I would check if anyone was having the same issue.
<trism> mamarley: might be related to bug 1261872 based on a quick glance
<ubottu> bug 1261872 in linux (Ubuntu) "P_ALL behavior inconsistent in eglibc vs. kernel headers (enum vs. #define)" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1261872
<mamarley> Thanks, I will check that out.
<trism> mamarley: since it is a eglibc bug about rearranging headers
<trism> mamarley: but perhaps not
<mamarley> It doesn't really look like it.
<mamarley> My problem is that the #-prefixed comments in syscall_64.tbl are processed as data instead of being ignored.
<mamarley> I am spinning up another saucy chroot right now so I can do more targeted testing (run the syscalltbl.sh script manually and check that the comments are ignored)
<mamarley> My gut feeling would be that it is a bash bug, but the version of bash did not change from Saucy to Trusty.
<trism> mamarley: /bin/sh would be dash but that appears unchanged as well
<trism> mamarley: nm I'm an idiot it runs with CONFIG_SHELL which seems to want to be bash
<trism> mamarley: though if anything it would seem like a grep bug, since grep does all the work filtering the comments, and grep is changed in trusty
<trism> mamarley: but the script by itself seems to work fine on both trusty and saucy here, so that's kind of weird
<trism> mamarley: I'm only in an lxc container though so I wouldn't see any weird kernel bugs, have you tested without -j?
 * elfy wonders when firefox 26 will turn up properly
<mamarley> Strangely enough, it does indeed work perfectly if run it on my laptop (which is also running Trusty).
<mamarley> Let me check out that grep angle...
<om26er> the latest ISO is broken, does not boot. HELP ?
<Wubix> om26er: whats the error message?
<Wubix> and how did you get a project cloak?
<Wubix> maybe not related but i had this problem on 12.04 yesterday. and i could not find a single hint in the logs
<BluesKaj> hiyas all
<zack_> does anyone try xubuntu 14.04?
<elfy> seems to me not very many - which is not much help when we're trying to get it tested
<elfy> I - for one - do ;)
<zack_> i have installed xubuntu 14.04 a1, but after installation, i found that the appearance is not what i saw in live cd
<elfy> you probably have xfce session
<zack_> i just installed and logged on
<zack_> so should i change to xubuntu before log on?
<elfy> yea - but ...
<elfy> you might need to remove .config and .cache from your home
<zack_> i found some software has been removed
<zack_> with new replacement
<elfy> remove .cache and .config from your home folder - logout, choose xubuntu session - login
<elfy> there are user session bugs with the image
<zack_> ok..i will have a try later
<elfy> I'll be off again in 20 minutes, but will be about in a few hours again
<Daekdroom> !schedule
<ubottu> Saucy Salamander (13.10) release milestones can be found at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SaucySalamander/ReleaseSchedule
<Daekdroom> That better be updated
<genii> !schedule-#ubuntu
<lotuspsychje> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2013/12/ubuntu-14-04-alpha-1-released
<genii> !schedule
<ubottu> A schedule of Trusty Tahr (14.04) release milestones can be found here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseSchedule
<lotuspsychje> genii: nice fix mate
<genii> lotuspsychje: I used to work on the factoids much more, just it's very time consuming when you start going through them all, etc
<mamarley> trism: Thanks for the help!  I ended up figuring out that the problem was that grep was failing to load the PCRE library, and instead of displaying an error message, it was just silently failing and ignoring the regex.  That caused the commented lines to slip through and break the kernel build.
<lotuspsychje> genii: i understand, its a time robbing job but alot of factoids, still contain very usefull info
<lotuspsychje> its hard to keep it up to date 24/7
<trism> mamarley: wow that is really strange, I had a thought that grep might just be ignoring the regex but I couldn't figure out how to reproduce it, glad you got it working
<SorenHolm> Hi
<SorenHolm> How do I report errors against the current 14.04 version. The current livcd can not login.
<brainwash> you can manually create a bug report on launchpad and provide all needed information
<BluesKaj> SorenHolm, suggest you use acpi=off and nomodeset as boot options on the live cd , I believe it's F6 that gives those options on the try ubuntu page
<SorenHolm> BluesKaj: The case is that I get a kde-password promtp when pressing "Try Kubuntu".
<BluesKaj> then a kubuntu version must already be installed , SorenHolm
<SorenHolm> BluesKaj: yes - but does the livecd ask for a password just because I have kubuntu installed on the hdd?
<BluesKaj> SorenHolm, dunno why , but I've heard of this happening before , and sorrt to say I've forgotten what the workaround is. Unless your pw is accepted and lets the system boot the cd/dvd
<SorenHolm> BluesKaj: I'll try some other stuff..
<BluesKaj> SorenHolm, do you have separate  / and /home partitions, suggest you format / , then try the live media
<BluesKaj> with gparted live cd/usb
<BluesKaj> err format with that is ^
<BluesKaj> SorenHolm, do you have separate  / and /home partitions, suggest you format / with a utility like gpat, then try the live media
<BluesKaj> gparted
<elfy> SorenHolm: if the kubuntu live session is asking for a password - it 'could' be a similar issue to the one xubuntu and lubuntu have or had
<SorenHolm> BluesKaj: hmmm - I don't want to wipe my current system just yet.
<elfy> SorenHolm: have you tried using kubuntu without a password
<elfy> though I am guessing as I'm not sure how kubuntu sets user sessions
<SorenHolm> elfy: well i just displays a password field - nu username or anything.
<elfy> ok - not the same them
<elfy> s/then
<BluesKaj> SorenHolm,assume you plan to install kubuntu , installing to / wheile leaving the /home dir alone is great method for clean installs of new vwrsions
<BluesKaj> versions
<BluesKaj> anyway, stuff to do, BBL
<CountryfiedLinux> I just updated to Trusty but it still shows I'm pulling from Saucy.
#ubuntu+1 2013-12-21
<beyondcr> Hello is anyone running fglrx on kernel 3.13.X?
<randomcpp> does anyone here use fglrx-update on trusty?
<BluesKaj> Hey all
<soee> after upgrade to 14.04 a1 (kubuntu) my bumblebee stops working
<soee> can someone  take a look at: http://pastebin.com/R4HNyiqY ?
<dupondje> Pfft, guess its time to move to another distribution :(
<dupondje> 1) Half of the time keyboard is not working on lightdm
<dupondje> 2) Dynamic power isn't working on Nouveau
<penguin42> dupondje: What do you mean by not working
<penguin42> dupondje: at all?
<dupondje> penguin42: can't type anythinf
<penguin42> capslock work?
<penguin42> does the mouse move?
<dupondje> didn't test caps
<dupondje> mouse works fine
<dupondje> but can't click on the button to reboot for example
<penguin42> dupondje: ah - so it's not just the keyboard that's broken
<penguin42> does anything on the GUI respond with the mouse?
<dupondje> penguin42: have same issue on screensaver also. then sometimes I can't enter password nor reboot
<dupondje> but then I can click on cancel for example
<dupondje> or what is it: "Login as other user" or so :)
<penguin42> ok, so hmm it's not completely broken; I'd try ctrl-alt-f1 to see if you can switch to a text console - if that works then it shows the keyboard at least works
<dupondje> yep that works. Then I restart lightdm, and then can restart
<penguin42> ok, so the keyboard is happy - that doesn't sound like the problem
<penguin42> dupondje: when you hit the problem again I'd check in /var/log/lightdm to see if there is any sign of anything broken or the other logs
<dupondje> checked, but found nothing really usefull there :(
<dupondje> http://paste.ubuntu.com/6612608/
<penguin42> is that the /v/l/lightdm/lightdm.log?
<dupondje> y
<penguin42> how about the x-0-greeter.log and x-0.log in the same directory (or the .old if it's the previous run that failed)
<dupondje> from previous login :)
<dupondje> http://paste.ubuntu.com/6612633/ => the crash at the end seems when I stopped lightdm, so unrelated
<penguin42> I was going to say that was surprisingly short, but mine is no more chatty; I don't have the 'reporting' lines you have
<dupondje> http://paste.ubuntu.com/6612640/
<dupondje> seems to contain some errors
<penguin42> yeh that doesn't look happy
<penguin42> I'm running lightdm but with the KDE greeter and there are only a few warnings in that log
<trism> bug 1260223
<ubottu> bug 1260223 in unity-greeter (Ubuntu) "randomly is not possible to enter the password [init: indicator-sync main process ended, respawning ]" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1260223
<penguin42> yeh that looks the same
<trism> although actually, it'll probably be fixed by bug 1255719
<ubottu> bug 1255719 in indicator-sync (Ubuntu) "Upstart job keeps respawing indicator-sync on the greeter" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1255719
<dupondje> ok subscribed :)
<dupondje> next thing is DynPwr in nouveau, never switches of my vga card :(
<alkisg> Anyone else having artifacts with Intel Corporation Mobile 4 Series Chipset Integrated Graphics Controller [8086:2a42] (rev 07)?
<alkisg> Also, there's a big mix with ibus, gnome keyboard layout, xorg layout, lighdm layout, accountsservice layout... and the keyboard switching (us,gr) just doesn't work right, as usual :(
<alkisg> (broken since 10.04.. :()
<elhoir> hello... im using Ubuntu 14.04 and i cant log out
<elhoir> only shutdown or reboot
<elhoir> is it known?
<elhoir> log out, i mean, from X
<elhoir> i ca log out normally using console
<elhoir> can*
 * alkisg heard someone else mention it, but doesn't know anything more
<elhoir> should i open a bug report in launchpad?
<elhoir> ??
<alkisg> Since pidgin, nm-applet etc do not show up in the indicator-applet-complete, why isn't notification-area added by default in the panel?
<alkisg> ...and why was the username removed? :(
<dupondje> for some reason, some application keeps my nvidia card runing :(
<BluesKaj> dupondje, got any browsers open with no adblock ?
<dupondje> BluesKaj: it starts when I start lightdm/gnome-shell :s
<bekks> dupondje: because that requires 3D.
<dupondje> bekks: why does it works fine on Arch for example, with gnome
<dupondje> gnome can run perfectly on the Integrated Intel card, no need to activate the Nvidia card
<bekks> dupondje: What is "it"?
<dupondje> 'it': poweroff of the Intel card
<dupondje> err
<dupondje> Nvidia Card
<bekks> dupondje: Well, a different setup works differently. I have no clue what Arch is doing. I am constantly refusing to use it again since I quit it 8 years ago.
<dupondje> not saying its better or so, but just want to get this fixed
<bekks> Did I get that right that you actually dont want to use the better GPU?
<penguin42> bekks: They tend to run hotter and the drivers are touchier
<bekks> Hmm. I never had issues with the Nvidia drivers using Ubuntu.Not even when using bleeding edge drivers.
<penguin42> bekks: And if you're idea of a good game is Mahjongg then you often don't need them
<dupondje> bekks: its a Optimus laptop
<dupondje> it needs to turn off the Nvidia card when not needed
<dupondje> to save power!
<soee> hi, someone else can confirm: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2190031 ?
<bekks> Thats an URL. Confirmed.
<holstein> !info bumblebee
<ubottu> bumblebee (source: bumblebee): NVIDIA Optimus support for Linux. In component universe, is extra. Version 3.2.1-4 (trusty), package size 58 kB, installed size 230 kB (Only available for linux-any)
<holstein> handy that it made it into the repos
#ubuntu+1 2013-12-22
<soee> !info glxspheres
<ubottu> Package glxspheres does not exist in trusty
<alkisg> Now with logind, what's the equivalent of `ck-list-sessions`?
<randomcpp> hello everyone
<randomcpp> does anyone here use fglrx drivers from trusty?
<elhoir> me
<elhoir> im using fglrx in trusty
<elhoir> randomcpp, :)
<elhoir> but im about switching to open source radeon driver
 * elhoir is already using the OS driver for his laptop
<randomcpp> elhoir,
<randomcpp> do you use unity too?
<randomcpp> I'm asking because I'm having some troubles since I've installed fglrx 13.12, that I haven't had before..
<randomcpp> it's some sort of screen flickering
<Wubix> randomcpp: have you checked if your screen is detected properly and the right screen resolution is used?
<randomcpp> This problem appears to be unity only..on gnome-shell I hadn't had a flicker for an entire day
<randomcpp>  opening the dash causes a lot of flickering
<BluesKaj> Hiyas all
<elhoir> randomcpp, i use Unity too, yes
<elhoir> but i have not the issue you say
<elhoir> :/
<elhoir> the more problematic issue i have is not being able to log out from X
<elhoir> only shutdown or reboot
<randomcpp> :/
<elhoir> gotta go, sorry
<randomcpp> ok bye :)
<elhoir> randomcpp, im here again
<randomcpp> hi elhoir
<Wubix> :)
<elhoir> as i said, im planning to switch to the open source radeon driver
<elhoir> because i feel fglrx is a bit slow
<elhoir> but i have haD NO ISSUES WITH IT
<elhoir> oh, sorry
<elhoir> i have had no issues with it
<randomcpp> I've tried them, but I notice that the gpu is warmer with oss drivers :/
<elhoir> warmer = more heat ?
<penguin42> randomcpp: I think power management went in fairly recently on the open drivers - and I'm not sure if it's on by default
<randomcpp> elhoir, yep
<elhoir> randomcpp, try enabling dmp
<elhoir> dpm
<elhoir> http://askubuntu.com/questions/324733/how-to-enable-the-radeon-dynamic-power-management-feature-in-ubuntu-13-04
 * randomcpp is already reading :p
<elhoir> :)
<elhoir> penguin42, its not, afaik
<elhoir> it will be in kernel 3.13, if i read correctly
<randomcpp> elhoir, my card is a hd5650 mobility
<randomcpp> btw
<elhoir> mine is a HD 6570
<elhoir> and i have a 4550 in my laptop
<elhoir> 5145, to be more precise xd
<randomcpp> is it just a flag in grub right?
<elhoir> yes
<elhoir> let me show you my line
<elhoir> GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT="splash nopat quiet radeon.dpm=1 crashkernel=384M-2G:64M,2G-:128M crashkernel=384M-2G:64M,2G-:128M"
<randomcpp> sudo apt-get remove --purge fglrx-amdcccle-updates fglrx-updates fglrx-updates-dev :D
<elhoir> look a the "radeon.dpm=1"
<randomcpp> what's nopat for? (curiosity :p)
<elhoir> randomcpp, i'd better use the software-properties-gtk applet
<elhoir> nopat... no idea, but... "if something works, do not touch it" :P
<randomcpp> elhoir, I never liked it, I always managed to install fglrx drivers manually
<randomcpp> lol
<randomcpp> reboot see you later
<randomcpp> wish me good luck :D
<elhoir> randomcpp, hey :)
<randomcpp> I'm back
<elhoir> a clue: instead of "sudo apt-get remove --purge", you can "sudo apt-get purge" directly
<elhoir> :)
<randomcpp> uvd    vclk: 0 dclk: 0
<randomcpp> power level 0    sclk: 40000 mclk: 79000 vddc: 950 vddci: 0
<elhoir> ^^
<randomcpp> temperature is around 59Â°C
<randomcpp> I should check some steam games if they work
<randomcpp> D: euro truck simulator doesn't work
<randomcpp> serious sam 3 works
<elhoir> im not sure steam works with AMD cards
<elhoir> its astonishing slow even with fglrx
<randomcpp> psychonauts works too
<randomcpp> euro truck sim works pretty good with fglrx drivers though
<randomcpp> can I calibrate external monitor colors with oss drivers?
<randomcpp> with oss driver smooth scrolling in firefox is really smooth :)
<elhoir_> are you running unity with os drivers?
<randomcpp> elhoir_, yep
<elhoir_> ...and? how smooth is it? :)
<randomcpp> very smooth :)
<randomcpp> it's just euro truck simulator that doesn't work D:
<elhoir_> :(
<randomcpp> other games (SS3 psychonauts..) seem to run fine though
<elhoir_> run glxgears and see FPSs :)
<randomcpp> temperature seems also ok with gpm enabled
<randomcpp> 60 fps :p vertical sync enabled >.<
<elhoir_> thats good :)
<elhoir_> definitely i will switch to them
<randomcpp> how can I disable vsync in radeon?
<elhoir_> try running driconf
<randomcpp> I can't find anything vsync related in driconf
<elhoir> no idea then....
<elhoir> sorry
<randomcpp> np
<randomcpp> do you know how can I calibrate monitor colors?
<elhoir> no idea either :(
<elhoir> oh wait
<elhoir> in the System Settings menu
<elhoir> there is a "color" option
<elhoir> i havent tried, but....
<elhoir> maybe it is there
<randomcpp> yeah but calibrate.. is greyed out
<elhoir> try adding a profile
<elhoir> or something like it
<randomcpp> I've already tried nothing seems to work
<elhoir> aha... if you say "show details", it tells you about  installins additional packages
<elhoir> lets see what happens :)
<randomcpp> elhoir, I've already installed those pkgs
<randomcpp> my external monitor is old and it has weird contrast
<randomcpp> with fglrx I've found a good setting for this issue
<elhoir> no idea then ... :(
<randomcpp> but unity is smooooth as butter :p
<elhoir> rebooting
<elhoir> back
<elhoir|wrk> lets see what does XMir bring to 14.04 :)
<randomcpp> elhoir|wrk, have you switched to radeon? :)
<elhoir|wrk> randomcpp: not yet, im waiting for about 300 MB downloads before switching and rebooting :)
<elhoir|wrk> 300 MB of updates download, i mean :)
<randomcpp> yeah I get it :)
<elhoir|wrk> most of games switch to a "medium" graphics quality, because oss drivers report my card as RV710
<elhoir|wrk> which is unknown
<elhoir|wrk> instead of "HD 4500"
<elhoir|wrk> which would be known
<elhoir|wrk> :(
<randomcpp> :/
<elhoir|wrk> but if you set graphics to "high" it works xd
<elhoir|wrk> its a bit tricky
<randomcpp> I still don't have a clue why euro truck doesn't work :(
<elhoir|wrk> :P
<randomcpp> is it a mobility or desktop?
<elhoir|wrk> mobility
<elhoir|wrk> its a laptoip
<elhoir|wrk> laptop
<elhoir|wrk> i have a HD 6570 in my desktop PC
<randomcpp> yeah I have a hd mobility too..but I can't get games to run full details
<elhoir|wrk> well im not a gamer...
<elhoir|wrk> games i play are... quite old
<randomcpp> even if it's a bit newer than yours (hd 5650 1gb)
<elhoir|wrk> not very high requirements
<randomcpp> for example? :) (I'm curious)
<elhoir|wrk> Amnesia, iirc :)
<elhoir|wrk> GTA San Andreas
<elhoir|wrk> ...
<randomcpp> well amnesia has nice graphics imho
<elhoir|wrk> yeah
<elhoir|wrk> i love the game
<randomcpp> I'm a bit stuck somewhere..I don't remember where at the moment..next summer after exams I'll finish it I promise :P
<elhoir|wrk> i went until the water monster 1st appear
<elhoir|wrk> couldnt pass that scenario
<elhoir|wrk> :(
<randomcpp> that damn water!
<randomcpp> I think I'm there too
<randomcpp> goodnight :)
#ubuntu+1 2014-12-15
<draven33> if things are broken! This channel is logged. Use of this channel implies acceptance of terms at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/TermsOfService
<draven33> ups sorry
<BluesKaj_> Hey folks
<lordievader> Good afternoon.
<Mikaela> hi
<lordievader> Hey Mikaela, how are you?
<Mikaela> fine thanks and you?
<lordievader> Doing good. Got things setup again after the move.
<SuperEddy>  HexChat: 2.10.0 ** OS: Linux 3.16.0-24-generic x86_64 ** Distro: Ubuntu "utopic" 14.10 ** CPU: 2 x Intel(R) Atom(TM) CPU  230   @ 1.60GHz (GenuineIntel) @ 1.60GHz ** RAM: Physical: 960.8MiB, 64.4% free ** Disk: Total: 144.3GiB, 91.9% free ** VGA: 10de:087e ** Sound: HDA-Intel - HDA NVidia ** Ethernet: 10de:0ab0 ** Uptime: 1d 3h 22m 2s **
<SuperEddy>  HexChat: 2.10.0 ** OS: Linux 3.16.0-24-generic x86_64 ** Distro: Ubuntu "utopic" 14.10 ** CPU: 2 x Intel(R) Atom(TM) CPU  230   @ 1.60GHz (GenuineIntel) @ 1.60GHz ** RAM: Physical: 960.8MiB, 64.4% free ** Disk: Total: 144.3GiB, 91.9% free ** VGA: 10de:087e ** Sound: HDA-Intel - HDA NVidia ** Ethernet: 10de:0ab0 ** Uptime: 1d 3h 22m 4s **
<SuperEddy>  HexChat: 2.10.0 ** OS: Linux 3.16.0-24-generic x86_64 ** Distro: Ubuntu "utopic" 14.10 ** CPU: 2 x Intel(R) Atom(TM) CPU  230   @ 1.60GHz (GenuineIntel) @ 1.60GHz ** RAM: Physical: 960.8MiB, 64.3% free ** Disk: Total: 144.3GiB, 91.9% free ** VGA: 10de:087e ** Sound: HDA-Intel - HDA NVidia ** Ethernet: 10de:0ab0 ** Uptime: 1d 3h 22m 8s **
<SuperEddy> !ops
<Mikaela> shouldn't you be on vivid 15.04?
<k1l_> he is a known troll anyway.
<Mikaela> that is why I asked after they were removed
<SuperEddy> noooooooo waaaaaaaaaa
<SuperEddy> DJones, waaaaaaa
<WhoKows_625> Hi, I've just updated the kubuntu flavour. Konsole is crashing on me on exit. I've already reported the buf to kde, but since today's update the crash handler can not find the debug symbol, but I have konsole-dbg installed. Any ideas?
<genii> !ddebs
<ubottu> ddebs is See http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/ddebs/ and https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2006-September/000195.html for documentation
#ubuntu+1 2014-12-16
<lordievader> Good morning
<BluesKaj> Hiyas all
#ubuntu+1 2014-12-17
<lordievader> Good morning.
<BluesKaj_> 'Morning all
<ignacio> Hi, is there any way for upgrade to 15.04 from 14.10_
<k1l> ignacio: yes, use the developer path
<ignacio> k1l, what is that?
<k1l> do-release-upgrade -d
<k1l> note the -d for developer
<ignacio> oh
<ignacio> k1l, I got error
<k1l> ok
#ubuntu+1 2014-12-18
<Mirv> anyone else using vivid with encrypted home dir, finding login problems in recent days (like, since yesterday)?
<Mirv> lightdm shows as if my user wouldn't have password (just "log in"), and it doesn't work.. if I log in from tty1 (unlocking home dir) and log out, after that the log in from lightdm works without password. extremely strange.
<BluesKaj_> Hey all
#ubuntu+1 2014-12-19
<Burlypenguin> Hello, would someone be willing to help me troubleshoot an ubiquity issue?
<rainbowwarrior> hello
<rainbowwarrior> I think there is a bug in Ubuntu 15.04 ( Release 17th December 2014 ) I can login fine using my password but when I do su for root it says my password is invalid. same as with root
<lordievader> Good morning.
<BluesKaj_> Hi all
<elfy> hi BluesKaj
<BluesKaj> Hi elfy, what's happening ?
<elfy> not much at all - which is good :)
<elfy> how's you?
<BluesKaj> I'm ok , just trying to setup some desktop schemes in plasma 5 but the Downloader is broken
<elfy> that's fun then ...
<elfy> we've just had gtk3.14 land - some theme issues to deal with apparently
<BluesKaj> well, if the issue isn't solved soon I may revert to plasma 4 if that's possible 15.04, if not, I'll reinstall 14.10 and plasma 4 which is default
<BluesKaj> on kubuntu
<elfy> yep
<elfy> not often I look at kubuntu
<johnjohn101> heelo
<elfy> hello
<johnjohn101> someone needs to change the schedule in the topic
<johnjohn101> also when is 3.18 going to be rolled out in
<bubbasaures> this is not the developer channel johnjohn101
<johnjohn101> i wasn't asking a development question
<bubbasaures> johnjohn101, how would we know when 3.18 is due is my point.
<johnjohn101> i mean kernel 3.18 in the daily.
<elfy> johnjohn101: " We are still debating on uploading to the archive after Alpha1 releases this week. However, we may opt to wait until everyone returns from holiday after the new year. "
<elfy> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting/2014-12-16
<johnjohn101> tx elfy.
<elfy> as far as the topic is concerned - someone with ops here would have to do that
<johnjohn101> elfy, i know some ops, i'll see if they will change
* rww changed the topic of #ubuntu+1 to: Welcome to #ubuntu+1, the support channel for pre-release versions of Ubuntu. Pre-release versions are unstable and will probably break your computer. | Current dev version: Vivid Vervet / 15.04 | Schedule: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/VividVervet/ReleaseSchedule | Daily builds: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/current/
<rww> thanks johnjohn101
<elfy> thanks rww :)
<nagerst> Can you run unity8 on Xorg or is it Mir exclusive?
<johnjohn101> np, rww
#ubuntu+1 2014-12-20
<lotuspsychje> someone know if they implemented systemd in vidid?
<lotuspsychje> !info systemd
<ubottu> systemd (source: systemd): system and service manager. In component main, is standard. Version 218-2ubuntu3 (vivid), package size 3148 kB, installed size 16680 kB (Only available for linux-any)
<lotuspsychje> oh standard...
<lotuspsychje> nice one
<lotuspsychje> someone tested boot speed on vivid with systemd?
<lordievader> Good morning.
<elfy> hi lordievader
<lordievader> Hey elfy, how are you doing?
<elfy> pretty good thanks - you?
<lordievader> Doing okay.
<lordievader> My father just revealed again that he was a real user...
<elfy> :)
<BluesKaj_> Hiyas all
<Guest65611> Can anyone tell me what package provides the printscreen functionality?
<popey> i already told you â»
<popey> gnome-screenshot
<Guest65611> Oh hey you did, thanks
#ubuntu+1 2014-12-21
<lotuspsychje> someone tested boot speed on systemd vivid yet?
<lotuspsychje> running faster then the classic init system?
<BluesKaj_> 'Morning folks
<TheBlackRussian> Hello guys, how do i install drm-intel-nightly 3.19
<TheBlackRussian> Hello guys, how do i install drm-intel-nightly 3.19
<teward> !repeat
<ubottu> Don't feel ignored and repeat your question quickly; if nobody knows your answer, nobody will answer you. While you wait, try searching https://help.ubuntu.com or http://ubuntuforums.org or http://askubuntu.com/
<pixelkat> sup!
<pixelkat> how do i know if im running gnome 3.14 or 3.12 on ubuntu 15.04
<pixelkat> also, how do i get minecraft working
<pixelkat> and is it hard to make money on youtube channels?
<pixelkat> what if i do a lot of let's plays?
<pixelkat> can i dual boot mac osx and ubuntu?
#ubuntu+1 2015-12-14
<BluesKaj> Hey folks
<teward> anyone know specifically where I can find an installation image for Xenial?  One that won't torpedo everything, preferably a headless (server) ISO.  Need it for package testing :P
<lotus|xenial> teward: look into topic for daily branch
<teward> that works
<teward> lotus|xenial: wish i had seen the topic, my IRC is lagging
<teward> so it got missed :/
<lotus|xenial> teward: running xenial myself on desktop, pretty stable here
<teward> lotus|xenial: indeed, though I'm an LTS guy :P
<nicomachus> wew, lots of package upgrades for xenial this morning...
<teward> i'm getting oddness from Xenial this morning - extrenely long network interface names, inside a VM... http://paste.ubuntu.com/14015675/
<teward> has this been seen in the past?
#ubuntu+1 2015-12-15
<lordievader> In the past udev didn't use a bios relative naming scheme.
<BluesKaj> 'Morning all
<nicomachus> the day has come!: http://paste.ubuntu.com/14030245/
<CryptoSiD> hiii, how can i fix this: W: Failed to fetch http://swupdate.openvpn.net/apt/dists/trusty/Release No Hash entry in Release file /var/lib/apt/lists/partial/swupdate.openvpn.net_apt_dists_trusty_Release, which is considered strong enough for security purposes
<CryptoSiD> i cant find any good info on google, maybe im noob
<nicomachus> CryptoSiD: they don't have a xenial release yet because xenial isn't released yet...
<CryptoSiD> i know but trusty release was working fine for a while on xenial
<CryptoSiD> started having problem last week
<nicomachus> that's the hazard of using an experimental build: not all of your software is going to work.
<nicomachus> well, xenail of this week != xenial of last week
<CryptoSiD> well there is no hash on the release file, i found a way to disable the hash check on apt yesterday but i cant find it back
<retrojeff> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/apt-xapian-index/+bug/1526267/comments/6
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1526267 in apt-xapian-index (Ubuntu) ".../softwarecenter/backend/scagent.py : no module named "spawn_helper"" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<retrojeff> this bug is mission critical
<retrojeff> cant update packages unless this is fixed
<retrojeff> who maintains apt-xapian-index
<nicomachus> retrojeff: https://anonscm.debian.org/gitweb/?p=collab-maint/apt-xapian-index.git
<nicomachus> owner	Enrico Zini
<retrojeff> so its more a debian problem
<nicomachus> also see: https://packages.debian.org/source/sid/apt-xapian-index
<nicomachus> for bug reports.
<retrojeff> this bug is downstream
<retrojeff> I dont see anything in git that would cause this bug
<retrojeff> oh it said right in the bug title that its softwarecenter
<retrojeff> hold on while I smash my keyboard on my face
<retrojeff> possible fix
<retrojeff> apt-get install --reinstall software-center
<retrojeff> nope
<nicomachus> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2015/11/the-ubuntu-software-centre-is-being-replace-in-16-04-lts
<nicomachus> we haven't seen this yet, but it's coming.
<retrojeff> ok
<retrojeff> so I can ignore these warnings in the mean time
#ubuntu+1 2015-12-16
<retrojeff> looks like apt-xapian-index just got an update
<retrojeff> Unpacking apt-xapian-index (0.47ubuntu4) over (0.47ubuntu3) ...
<retrojeff> nope
<retrojeff> bug still persists
<retrojeff> seriously who is working on this package and did they not see the bug report
<retrojeff> just when ubuntu gets nice and stable they shift again breaking things
<retrojeff> the whole thing with systemd breaking su and sudo
<retrojeff> now this
<retrojeff> god damn it all
<retrojeff> I do not care what anything says synaptic package manager is actually really good
<retrojeff> what anyone says*
<lordievader> Good morning.
<CryptoSiD> initramfs-tools is broken now
<CryptoSiD> http://paste.ubuntu.com/14048469/
<BluesKaj> Hiyas all
<jjlx> Is ubuntu 16.04 going to ship with unity 8 by default?
<nicomachus> no.
<nicomachus> it's not ready yet.
<nicomachus> likely by 16.10
<nicomachus> canonical also doesn't like to stick big, new changes in the LTS releases. and unity 8 is a big change.
<jjlx> Oh, I see. Well, an LTS release has to be stable.
<jjlx> yeah
<nicomachus> right. as of now, 16.04+Unity8 won't even work in a VM because they kinda forgot some drivers.
<nicomachus> 16.04 works fine (running it now), but unity 8 is missing some drivers for hardware acceleration.
<jjlx> nicomachus: Are there going to be any visual changes though? Or is it going to look exactly the same as it does now?
<nicomachus> there will be some minor visual change. IIRC the main aim is convergence between desktop and mobile platforms.
<nicomachus> there are some guys in here that are running unity 8 already... lotuspsychej for sure but it doesn't look like he's online.
<jjlx> nicomachus: I actually tried 16.04 a couple months back... it wasn't really working properly. Must be better now...
<nicomachus> it's pretty stable now, for the most part. still quite a few changes day-to-day, but it's getting there. Alpha release is December 31, so that's probably a good time to try it again. :)
<BluesKaj> yeah and if you're on plasma 5/KDE then the latest upgrades will break the launchers and panel widgets plus the desktop background...all this from the frameworks staging ppa, so if you're running kubuntu xenialon't use that ppa
<BluesKaj> I'm managing to use the OS with it's problems hoping the rest of the libs come down the pipe soon
<BluesKaj> this is all in preparation for plasma 5.5
<retrojeff> if they fix apt-xapian-index by dec 31st
<retrojeff> I will jump for joy
<nicomachus> retrojeff: that's up to those devs :)
<retrojeff> as I stated earlier they released a update to apt-xapian-index
<retrojeff> but the bug still persists
<nicomachus> I remember seeing you but don't remember the bug or specifics. did you file a bug report?
<retrojeff> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/apt-xapian-index/+bug/1526267/comments/7
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1526267 in apt-xapian-index (Ubuntu) "Traceback from update-apt-xapian-index" [High,Fix released]
<nicomachus> ah ok.
<retrojeff> so the solution was to purge software-center
<nicomachus> ohhh right. and software center is (supposedly) going away in 16.04.
<nicomachus> it's still in the build as of today... but alpha doesn't start for 2 more weeks so we'll see
<retrojeff> software-center needs to be removed from the xenial repos
<retrojeff> because it is broken
<retrojeff> I still use synaptic package manager
<retrojeff> and will continue to use synaptic package manager
<retrojeff> software-center is and always was a joke
<retrojeff> and ugly
<retrojeff> synaptic package manager is not for noobs I get that
<retrojeff> but us being more skilled need to know whats going on under the hood
<nicomachus> lol, it's being replaced with GNOME's "Software" app
<retrojeff> even synaptic package manager showing terminal output is nice
<nicomachus> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2015/11/the-ubuntu-software-centre-is-being-replace-in-16-04-lts
<retrojeff> yes you linked that already
<retrojeff> it too looks like garbage
<retrojeff> as I stated I have and will continue to use synaptic package manager
<nicomachus> well, sorry. keep using synaptic then.
<retrojeff> even comments on that link people agree that synaptic is great
<retrojeff> because it is
<retrojeff> I have used synaptic since like 10.10
<retrojeff> we do not need more spyware ad driven crap
<retrojeff> these software center type things are to hand hold noobs to ubuntu
<retrojeff> which is fine I get that
<nicomachus> I personally think synaptic is clunky and looks like crap.
<nicomachus> but I don't use software center either.
<retrojeff> you use command line?
<retrojeff> sudo apt-get etc
<nicomachus> yep.
<retrojeff> for me its 50/50 I use both command line and synaptic
<retrojeff> cause in synaptic you can right click a package and change from remove to purge
<retrojeff> or from purge to remove
<retrojeff> I still cant even get the mysql repo to show up in synaptic
<retrojeff> and its probley cause of this apt-xapian-index bug
<OerHeks> retrojeff, did you tried this > "sudo rm /var/lib/apt-xapian-index/cataloged_times.p && sudo rm /var/lib/apt-xapian-index/values && sudo update-apt-xapian-index --verbose --force " from https://help.ubuntu.com/community/PackageManagerTroubleshootingProcedure
<retrojeff> I am waiting for the updated version of apt-xapian-index
<retrojeff> a fix was released
<retrojeff> we just dont have it yet
<retrojeff> I am in PM with a maintainer now to get this resolved
#ubuntu+1 2015-12-17
<lordievader> Good morning.
<BluesKaj> Hey folks
<popey> hello frecel
<frecel> so I tried to install 16.04 on one of my machines
<nicomachus> how'd it go?
<frecel> and ubuiquity crashes when it tries to install grub
<frecel> I send the automatic bug report but I figured I'd ask if you guys know anything abot that
<jtaylor> you know how to recover from it?
<jtaylor> happens to me all the time, often just retrying works
<jtaylor> worst case reinstall grub from a working installation
<frecel> I have not recovered yet, I figured I might try to install grub manually but then I would probably not have the cool purple background
<jtaylor> if you install it from 16.04 it likely will
<frecel> I tried installing it three times today no success
<nicomachus> "cool"
<frecel> I will try it again, if the grub thing will fail again I will try the manual route
<jtaylor> with try again install only grub again or retry the full installation?
<jtaylor> its unlikely the latter will work
<frecel> I was hinda hoping someone would have some quick fix to make the installer work
<jtaylor> grub is one of the last things done so the installer worked enough
<jtaylor> you just need to reinstall the bootloader
<jtaylor> either from a livecd or another distro on the system
<jtaylor> e.g. you can chroot into the 16.04 installation from a livecd and call the grub-install again
<genii> just make sure to bindmount /proc /dev/ and /sys to the chroot
<retrojeff> ubuntu needs to trash ibus in 16.04
<retrojeff> like purge remove get rid of ... etc
<retrojeff> ibus was causing problems in wxWidget applications
<retrojeff> such as filezilla and audacity
<retrojeff> it was preventing the usage of backspace key triggering high cpu
<frecel> should I be installing grub on the EFI partition
<frecel> or is that better left alone?
<frecel> jtaylor: ^
<frecel> welp I'm super smart
<frecel> I installed grub but forgot to actually configure it
#ubuntu+1 2015-12-18
<BluesKaj> Howdy all
#ubuntu+1 2015-12-19
<frecel> is there a unity8 daily or weekly ppa?
<nicomachus> frecel: I'm not sure what the update cycle is, but you can install it with 'apt-get install unity8-desktop-session-mir'
<frecel> nicomachus: unity8-desktop-session-mir/wily 1.0.12+15.10.20150609-0ubuntu1 all
<frecel> that looks like it's aged a little
<nicomachus> frecel: you can try this ppa: ppa:unity8-desktop-session-team/unity8-preview-lxc
<lordievader> Good morning.
<BluesKaj> Hiyas all
#ubuntu+1 2015-12-20
<BluesKaj> Hey folks
<penguin42> Hey BK
<BluesKaj> hey
<krabador> a penguin in the kaj of blues
 * penguin42 isn't a little blue
<BluesKaj> my name rhymes with sky, it's a scandinavian name
<penguin42> blueskaj thinking?
<BluesKaj> hence the play on words
<penguin42> nod
<BluesKaj> and I play drums in a blues/rock band
<penguin42> nice
<krabador> BluesKaj, then you can appreciate kaj prononced ad key .d
<krabador> :D
<BluesKaj> krabador, no, I don't get it
<BluesKaj> oh kadge, like my wasp basketball coach pronounced my name the fistst time he met me
<BluesKaj> first
<BluesKaj> growing up In Canada, I got that a lot
<BluesKaj> wasp=white anglo saxon protestant, a common acronym here
<BluesKaj> anyway plasma 5.5 is having a difficult time getting packaged by the devs
<phil__> Hi, I see xenial in packages.ubuntu.com, is it already frozen? Is it installable (how?)
<penguin42> phil__: You can upgrade to it (I'm running it here) - I assume there are isos but I've not looked
<phil__> thanks
<k1l_> phil__: no its not already frozen
#ubuntu+1 2016-12-19
<tsimonq2> teward: DNS
#ubuntu+1 2016-12-20
<caravena> Hello
<caravena> Help with report: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1650918
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1650918 in linux (Ubuntu) "uvcvideo 1-1.4:1.0: Entity type for entity Extension 4 was not initialized!" [Medium,Confirmed]
<caravena> Please create kernel with patch.  I have testing is patch
<caravena> *I want
<caravena> *I want test is patch
#ubuntu+1 2016-12-21
<tsimonq2> What would cause this after running an apt update?
<tsimonq2> W: Conflicting distribution: http://archive.canonical.com/ubuntu devel InRelease (expected devel but got zesty)
<tsimonq2> W: Conflicting distribution: http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu devel InRelease (expected devel but got zesty)
<tsimonq2> (I have partner enabled)
#ubuntu+1 2016-12-22
<caravena> Help with report: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1650918
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1650918 in linux (Ubuntu) "uvcvideo 1-1.4:1.0: Entity type for entity Extension 4 was not initialized!" [Medium,Confirmed]
<nacc> caravena: given that this is just for a webcam in a pre-beta release, i'm guessing maybe it isn't getting the highest priority. But if the fix is going upstream, it will naturally get in.
<nacc> caravena: also, just a warning? really not critical to get a fix for it, then
#ubuntu+1 2016-12-23
<caravena> nacc: Ok, thanks
<nacc> caravena: those are just my opinions, admittedly :)
#ubuntu+1 2017-12-18
<darkertha3> âââââââââââ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--jYqzJErTI LRH IS LIVE NOW!! CALL 415-349-5666 #LRH EFNETlvfedvfqa: rbasak flocculant shadeslayer sary bildz ChmEarl dcmorton cpaelzer phunyguy Bashing-om Elimin8er el ubot9 vivid Jikan Smedles hggdh scottASL48 uebera|| isantop ochosi edwinksl tomreyn ahasenack acheronuk Nukien ZeZu F
<darkertha3> ââââââââââââ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--jYqzJErTI LRH IS LIVE NOW!! CALL 415-349-5666 #LRH EFNEToimbivmk: edwinksl el Kow zlmao jje__ isantop NegativeFlare Elimin8er ubot9 Warrigal ahasenack jje Bashing-om popey uebera|| tomreyn hggdh ChrisJames02170 dcmorton Jikan sary Fritigern brot guntbert markus-k bildz koff
<Bluefoxicy> ......
<tsimonq2> Bluefoxicy: Freenode spam attacks. They're working on it.
<darkertha3> ââââââââââââ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--jYqzJErTI LRH IS LIVE NOW!! CALL 415-349-5666 #LRH EFNETjcywkfc: apw rbasak Fritigern michagogo Jikan ChrisJames02170 el markus-k ZeZu ilken Nukien ahasenack jje__ cpaelzer ChmEarl Smedles shadeslayer StrangeNoises chu brot uebera|| tomreyn ubot9 bildz scottASL48 Warrigal s
<opti> so is installing bionic-server from daily iso broken, or am I adoing it wrong?
<ahasenack> opti: what broke? Did you use the debian-installer, or subiquity? Or a cloud image?
<opti> just using the iso from cdimage.ubuntu.com
<opti> bionic-server-amd64.iso to be exact, it just gets stuck after partitioning on the install system step, has done for weeks.
<opti> if that works for everyone else then I guess something is up
<lotuspsychje> flocculant: tnx for adding to my bug
<lotuspsychje> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/update-manager/+bug/1738517
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1738517 in update-manager (Ubuntu) "Update-manager does not expand details on progress on 17.10 & 18.04" [Undecided,Confirmed]
#ubuntu+1 2017-12-20
<cardboard64> how can I fix this error : Cannot mix incompatible Qt library (version 0x50903) with this library (version 0x50902)?
<cardboard64> this appear when starting qt programs since an update of the qt libs
<cardboard64> I'm using 18.04
<tsimonq2> cardboard64: That's a known issue we're trying to solve.
<tsimonq2> Thing didn't migrate at the same time.
<tsimonq2> There's more updates to come.
<cardboard64> ok, thanks tsimonq2
<tsimonq2> (for reference to anyone reading logs, it should be landed now(
<tsimonq2> )
#ubuntu+1 2017-12-22
<alkisg> Hmm I can't type Greek in the Ubiquity installer in MATE 18.04, while I can anywhere else like in mate-terminal. Exiting fcitx solves the problem.
<lotuspsychje> weird alkisg 
<lotuspsychje> i had dutch in my setup alkisg 
<alkisg> And you were able to switch?
 * alkisg is filling a bug report with details...
<lotuspsychje> cool
<lotuspsychje> alkisg: yes, but keybaord language i had to choose belgian
<lotuspsychje> default showed english
<alkisg> lotuspsychje: what's the output of this currently in your setup? setxkbmap -query | grep layout
<lotuspsychje> bbl mate
<alkisg> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/fcitx/+bug/1739732
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1739732 in fcitx (Ubuntu) "Can't switch to Greek in Ubiquity when fcitx is running" [Undecided,New]
#ubuntu+1 2017-12-23
<lotuspsychje> alkisg: lotuspsychje@R00TBOOK:~$ setxkbmap -query | grep layout
<lotuspsychje> layout:     be,us
<lotuspsychje> this bug seems solved on my side https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/update-manager/+bug/1738517?comments=all
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1738517 in update-manager (Ubuntu) "Update-manager does not expand details on progress on 17.10 & 18.04" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<alkisg> lotuspsychje: strange then, you should be affected, which DE did you try with, gnome?
<alkisg> Aaah maybe fcitx wasn't running for you?
<lotuspsychje> alkisg: i was on ubiquity
<alkisg> lotuspsychje: so I just select Belgium on syslinux?
<alkisg> Yes but which flavor?
<lotuspsychje> ubuntu desktop/gnome
<alkisg> Maybe that makes a difference as it uses different keyboard overrides there...
<alkisg> I'll try that to see if it works and comment on the report
<alkisg> ty! :)
<lotuspsychje> alkisg: but normally ubiquity puts my keyboard on belgiuam after i chosen my language
<alkisg> But can you switch?
<lotuspsychje> alkisg: this time it was set un US
<alkisg> That's the question
<lotuspsychje> alkisg: yes i can
<alkisg> With "be,us", I imagine you'd be stuck in "be"
<alkisg> (in ubiquity...)
<lotuspsychje> no
<lotuspsychje> i didnt try greek of course
<alkisg> lotuspsychje: what option do you select in syslinux?
<alkisg> Or you start with english and select belgium in the installer?
<lotuspsychje> alkisg: yes default its english, then i choose dutch
<lotuspsychje> alkisg: the only thing different is, the setup should automatic put .be keyboard and now it was set on US keyboard
<lotuspsychje> so not normal
<alkisg> And you selected "try ubuntu" to get a de, or "install ubuntu" to only get ubiquity?
<lotuspsychje> install ubuntu
<alkisg> OK, trying; maybe that didn't even load a desktop so it didn't load fcitx
<alkisg> (I selected ÎÎ»Î»Î·Î½Î¹ÎºÎ¬ (greek) in syslinux, Try Ubuntu, and again Greek in ubiquity, and that was with MATE daily
<lotuspsychje> alkisg: perhaps this is a (too) early thing?
<lotuspsychje> alkisg: remember we in pre-alpha stage now
<alkisg> Nah, we always get fcitx issues and it takes weeks/months to resolve them
<lotuspsychje> kk
<alkisg> They're too intrusive those fcitx devs :D
<lotuspsychje> lol
<alkisg> I don't see dutch nor belgium, what are the local names for them?
<lotuspsychje> .be
<lotuspsychje> nederlands
<alkisg> No in the language selection, similar to "ÎµÎ»Î»Î·Î½Î¹ÎºÎ¬"
<alkisg> Got nederlands, ok
<lotuspsychje> then we have french/dutch keyboard after
<alkisg> OK got it; fcitx isn't running if you don't select  "Try Ubuntu"
<alkisg> So the problem doesn't happen there
<alkisg> You'd need to select "Try Ubuntu" to see it
<lotuspsychje> aha
<lotuspsychje> alkisg: still got my liveusb, ill test it later for you ok
<alkisg> Thanks!
<alkisg> lotuspsychje: how do you switch between locales, alt+shift?
<alkisg> *between layouts
<lotuspsychje> alkisg: what should i be encountering badly?
<lotuspsychje> alkisg: GUI with mouse
<alkisg> Ah, eh ok it'll do
<alkisg> I.e. you won't be able to switch while typing your full name in the installer
<lotuspsychje> okay
<alkisg> Also please check if "ps aux|grep fcitx" shows anything
<alkisg> If it doesn't, you won't see any issues...
<lotuspsychje> allrighty
<alkisg> Ty!
<lotuspsychje> !info fcitx
<ubottu> fcitx (source: fcitx): Flexible Input Method Framework. In component universe, is optional. Version 1:4.2.9.4-3 (bionic), package size 5 kB, installed size 36 kB
<lotuspsychje> alkisg: is that a mate related package?
<alkisg> lotuspsychje: no, I think it's in most flavors, and it aims at helping chinese and japanese type
<alkisg> ...and possibly others
<dupondje> Ubuntu 18.04 will ship with 4.15 kernel?
<flocculant> dupondje: https://insights.ubuntu.com/2017/12/06/kernel-team-summary-december-6-2017/
<dupondje> flocculant: ok thanks. So 4.15 :)
#ubuntu+1 2017-12-24
<Acheron-a> https://www.opendesktop.org/s/Gnome/p/1192272/
<Acheron-a> nice theme that works under 18.04
#ubuntu+1 2018-12-20
<pepee> where do I report odd behavior in packages?
<teward> pepee: define 'odd behavior'
<pepee> there is a package, dirmngr, that seems to retrieve certificate revocation lists from servers 
<pepee> well, apparently one of these servers is either misconfigured or simply doesn't serve CRLs anymore, and because of that, I get "dirmngr[11156]: error mientras se accedÃ­a 'https://37.191.231.105:443/pks/lookup?op=get&options=mr&search=0xFEF5075C8600BF4D" in my logs
<pepee> "error mientras se accedÃ­a" means something like "error while accessing"
<teward> i mean you could try and file a bug against the package but it's possible that's not directly related to the package itself, but a specific certificate's CRL entry still pointing there
<pepee> actually, it's two lines: dirmngr[11156]: error mientras se accedÃ­a 'https://37.191.231.105:443/pks/lookup?op=get&options=mr&search=0xFEF5075C8600BF4D': http status 404  \n   dirmngr[11156]: command 'KS_GET' failed: No hay datos 
<teward> at which point that certificate's entry might be at fault
<pepee> ahh, ok, I thought this had to do with the package itself
<teward> !ops | denixx|w1 has a continually flaking connection, #ubuntu-ops for details
<ubottu> denixx|w1 has a continually flaking connection, #ubuntu-ops for details: Help! Channel emergency! (ONLY use this trigger in emergencies) - Pici, Myrtti, jrib, Amaranth, tonyyarusso, Nalioth, lamont, CarlK, elky, mneptok, Tm_T, jpds, ikonia, Flannel, genii, wgrant, stdin, h00k, IdleOne, Jordan_U, popey, Corey, ocean, cprofitt, djones, Madpilot, gnomefreak, lhavelund, phunyguy, bazhang, chu, dax
<pepee> thanks teward 
<teward> pepee: you could still file the bug though
<teward> just want to say MAYBE it's not a package bug - I don't know the package well enough to say whether it is or isn't, but just that ti could *not* be a bug if it's not a hardcoded reference in the package or something
<pepee> aha, ok, will try checking
<pepee> I actually don't know much about the topic itself, so I guess I'll learn something new before reporting
<lhavelund> Sorry folks.
<teward> lhavelund: thank you :)
#ubuntu+1 2018-12-21
<tomreyn> there seems to be no release announcement for 19.04, yet. traditionally, those got published on markshuttleworth.com, roughly 5 months before release
#ubuntu+1 2019-12-17
<feoh> krytarik, Cool! Maybe I'll give XFCE another try and see if I can make that work. I do enjoy knowing a super lightweight desktop for certain things.
<Blade> https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/XVC69rKF3w/  work  cool :)
#ubuntu+1 2019-12-18
<alkisg> Hi, is it possible to install chromium-browser without snap in 20.04? I'm guessing "no", but shouldn't at least the debian package be offered in universe?
<dax> not from ubuntu repositories, i have no idea whether it's a PPA somewhere (and wouldn't recommend it if it were)
<alkisg> Thank you dax; I'll search where I can file a bug report for it; I don't see any reason to block a specific debian package from reaching ubuntu users, unless it's just to force snap...
<dax> it's deliberate behavior, and filing a bug report seems like a waste of time
<alkisg> The official excuse is "we don't have resources to provide security updates", but that isn't valid for packages in universe, afaik
<alkisg> I'm not asking them to put it in main, so I think that specific concern hasn't been voiced
<lotuspsychje> since 19.10 chromium is a snap right?
<alkisg> Maybe; I'm not really following non-LTS releases
<alkisg> (heya lotuspsychje btw :))
<alkisg> Found it: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/chromium/+bug/1855594
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1855594 in chromium (Ubuntu) "Sync chromium 78.0.3904.108-1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,New]
<tarzeau> dax: i'm building my own .debs of it for ubuntu meanwhile
<alkisg> tarzeau: if you have them in a PPA, we'd prefer them to google's chrome, until this ubuntu mess gets properly resolved :)
<tarzeau> dax: it's causing problems for computers that run the browser for days, weeks, months (with it's updates breaking running versions in memory)
<tarzeau> alkisg: i've been reporting that since 19.04 when they started the shit
<alkisg> I think this ^ issue is the way to go
<tarzeau> alkisg: we use reprepro with our own webserver, so no PPA sorry
<lotuspsychje> there IS a 20.04 opinion going on recently, maybe we should mass vote chromium back into the repos?
<alkisg> I've been thinking about that for months too, but today I though this solution, and someone else had thought it before me...
<tarzeau> lotuspsychje: it's a company, they don't care
<alkisg> lotuspsychje: I certainly will; I have the voting tab open :)
<alkisg> tarzeau: companies of course care about both users and contributors
<tarzeau> i've been thinking to migrate our workstations back to debian because of that reason
<alkisg> E.g. I produce a lot of software and make sure its runs fine on ubuntu; if ubuntu stops caring, then I'll stop caring too
<tarzeau> ubuntu hardly produces a lot of software, they copy packaged software from debian and rebuild it
<lotuspsychje> alkisg: i also understand tarzeau chromium going snap for his users, isnt very convient (auto-updates)
<alkisg> Why would the debian package auto-update?
<lotuspsychje> the snap auto updates
<alkisg> Didn't tarzeau say that he's not using the snap version?
<alkisg> Also, if a sysadmin installs the snap, then it autoupdates for each user separately?! 
<lotuspsychje> yeah i mean before it was going snap, he used the repo one for his users
<tarzeau> we remove snap and netplan, and gnome-software
<tarzeau> and patch gnome-control-center
<alkisg> Yeah same here; except, using mate, so no gnome* at all
<alkisg> I think that bug above is the correct place to focus our concern; I'll tell my users to comment there
<lotuspsychje> good idea
<tarzeau> alkisg: liked (also affects me, and 1000+ users)
<lotuspsychje> im really a big fan of leaving the users the choice
<tarzeau> i'm a fan of consistency, stability, and the tools one needs to get work done
 * alkisg sees no point in having 2 package managers
<alkisg> If .deb has something wrong, then work to resolve that or completely replace that
<tarzeau> alkisg: i agree
<alkisg> Also I don't like the snap design, I think the deb design is a lot superior
<lotuspsychje> i think the main goal with snaps, is they want easy maintain their software, and it doesnt react the same way as the deb ones
<lotuspsychje> the you get the mass complaints
<tarzeau> i wouldn't mind if they replaced snap with spack 
<tarzeau> https://spack.io/
 * alkisg just answered the survey, noting this issue as well as others
<tarzeau> +1
<tarzeau> what were your other issues?
<tarzeau> alkisg: so will you stop making ltsp ppa, and only do everything with official packages? https://ltsp.org/docs/ppa/
<alkisg> tarzeau: heh, for example another of the issues I reported was "make it easier for upstream/motu to provide backports", which is basically what I'm solving with the ppa
<tarzeau> ah it's just backports, not the recommend pkg (it's clear for debian, not so much for ubuntu)
<alkisg> No, the ppa won't go away, as the ltsp nature is sensitive to other package upgrades, and it needs frequent updates
<tarzeau> but suppose i have 20.04 (unreleased) i can go with the official package i guess
<alkisg> Of course, and in debian bullseye too
<alkisg> You won't get ltsp-binaries, but you'll only lose memtest that way, nothing important
<alkisg> Example, a systemd/netplan update made clients not work a few months ago; an ltsp update in the ppa fixed that
<alkisg> Without the ppa, you'd just be stuck with unbootable clients
<alkisg> (that was for ltsp5)
<alkisg> I might stop the ltsp ppa and switch back to only using the greek schools ppa though in the distant future, we'll see
<alkisg> (greek schools ppa = ubuntu only, while ltsp ppa = debian too)
<tarzeau> when there's no more ldm, what does it look like by default?
<alkisg> Like normal ubuntu, e.g. gdm, lightdm...
<tarzeau> (i haven't set up 19 yet, our apprenticeship will do with 20.04)
<tarzeau> and rdp is also still supported and kiosk mode (autologin)?
<alkisg> Maybe we should be talking in #ltsp about these...
<alkisg> Autologin, yes. No screen scripts anymore; they're to be replaced by user sessions
<alkisg> So you can define /usr/share/xsession/something.desktop that does whatever you like
<tarzeau> ah i see, ok that's great
<tarzeau> alkisg: are annoyed by https://popcon.ubuntu.com/ not being up to date/wrong?
<alkisg> Nah, this is opt-in, its results aren't accurate anyway
<alkisg> I'd love to see the server stats though
<alkisg> E.g. "how many downloads of the xxx.deb package on each update?"
<tarzeau> it should have a big fat red blinking warning: this data is outdated, there's certainly not more i386 ubuntu users than amd64
<alkisg> In greece we have 10000 i386 PCs and 1000 amd64 :P
<alkisg> E.g. school labs with ltsp and nine 64bit clients, and one 32bit, use i386 arch...
<tarzeau> and that's debian based?
<tarzeau> or ubuntu? (asking because of the i386 bit)
<alkisg> Most are ubuntu so far, so up to 18.04
<alkisg> Many schools got new computers, so for 20.04 we'll probably switch to amd64
#ubuntu+1 2019-12-19
<martinml> Hello! I'll be getting a new computer sometime in the next weeks and would want to install a LTS release, but 20.04 being so close I would prefer installing that instead of 18.04. My question is: if I install 20.04 now from a daily image and keep updating normally (with apt for example), will I eventually end with the same result as waiting for
<martinml> final 20.04 release and installing it in April? Thanks!
#ubuntu+1 2019-12-21
<gimpnixon> hey everyone, I did a recent update for my focal foosa build and it caused issue with wine specifically d3dadapter, now wine no longer launches at first it was saying that it was a polygonoffset issue and after removing libdedadapter9-mesa I no longer get the polygonoffset error but wone still refuses to load with "X Error of failed request: BadMatch" here is the pastebin of my update log with the 
<gimpnixon> recomended autoremove after update https://pastebin.com/ZMGmTeyf
<gimpnixon> https://pastebin.com/y8rgpZcd
#ubuntu+1 2019-12-22
<The_LoudSpeaker> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/sudo/+bug/1857036
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1857036 in sudo (Ubuntu) "`sudo --login --user USERNAME` throws `setrlimit(RLIMIT_CORE): Operation not permitted` error when run inside a container." [Undecided,Confirmed]
<The_LoudSpeaker> Found this in a focal container so..
<OerHeks> hi The_LoudSpeaker 
<OerHeks> yes, teward found a bug that hits multiple distros
<The_LoudSpeaker> Hii OerHeks, I found the bug, teward filed it after he was able to reproduce it.
<teward> The_LoudSpeaker found the report on RHâs tracker.  Once I reproduced in a Focal container I simply made the Ubuntu bug for it
<teward> So it sounds like the bug is a larger bug than just Ubuntu and RH
<OerHeks> indeed, good find!
<ChmEarl> the bug is in docker or lxc?
<ChmEarl> teward please link your report
<teward> ChmEarl: neither the bug is in sudo
<teward> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/sudo/+bug/1857036
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1857036 in sudo (Ubuntu) "`sudo --login --user USERNAME` throws `setrlimit(RLIMIT_CORE): Operation not permitted` error when run inside a container." [Undecided,Confirmed]
<teward> Whether its actually contajner specific i haveny tested
<teward> Testing in a VM later today
<teward> If its not container specific the bug gets amended to be wider
<teward> If it is container specifc then it stays as is
<teward> Right now, lunch is a rewuisite.
