#ubuntu-accessibility 2011-01-10
<TheMuso> Pendulum: If you mean for unity, nothing definitive at this point, other than alpha 2.
<Pendulum> TheMuso: are things still on track to make it in to alpha 2? (are you sprinting in Dallas, btw?)
<TheMuso> Pendulum: Yes things are still on track. There are a few more people on board, as this is too much for one person alone, so things are going to move at a quicker rate in the coming weeks.
<Pendulum> yay!
<codo> hola all ?
<codo> anyone here ?
<TheMuso> codo: Hi.
<leoquant> hi codo
<codo> hello all.
<hajour> hai TheMuso 
<hajour> hai codo 
<hajour> and leoquant 
<hajour> :P
<codo> so like If i want to get started on contributing to ubuntu accessibility where should I start ?
<TheMuso> codo: Do you already have an idea of what you want to help with?
<codo> TheMuso: hmm may be some tools that help hearing impaired ? 
<TheMuso> codo: Right, do you know whether those tools exist already?
<codo> TheMuso: nope :P I'm a n00b in this domain :)
<codo> TheMuso: also i'm a hearing impaired guy from India.
<codo> TheMuso: it has been an ambition for me to get involved in some useful productive work to help some set of people because of my disability :)
<TheMuso> codo: Ok, well I think the best bet at this point is to determine whether the tools exist for Linux already. If they do, then please let us know either via IRC, or the ubuntu accessibility mailing list.
<TheMuso> We can ten look at ikntegrating those tools into the main distribution.
<codo> TheMuso: ah sure :)
<Pendulum> codo: what sorts of tools would you find helpful?
<Pendulum> (I'm genuinely interested as most of my friends with hearing impairments say that they don't generally have access issues with computers)
<hajour> i already dropped a while ago the idea for sound vibration alphabet.every sound have his own vibration what can be felt
<codo> Pendulum: ah the most visible handicap is that we can't have transcripts for podcasts.
<TheMuso> hajour: What hardware would do that?
<codo> Pendulum: when there is whole lot of videos on youtube that are interesting/useful we can't access them.
<codo> Pendulum: so say you want to hear to a google tech talk which is not even captioned how would you access it ?
<hajour> if you put sound out loud it gives a kind vibration what deaf people feel
<TheMuso> codo: Ah so you are thinking about speech to text recognition, and automatic text generation.
<hajour> every hight have a differend vibration
<TheMuso> hajour: Ah.
<codo> TheMuso: exactly. I doubt if people have achieved it now.
<nigelb> Just FYI, codo is a C programmer and gnome lover :)
<hajour> it should be complete new so far i new anyway
<TheMuso> Well speech to text is still very much a developing fied in open source, i.e there is not much that is possible at the moment. The commercial OSs still have way better software available in this regard.
<codo> I know nigelb who directed me to this list.
<TheMuso> nigelb: Sweet.
<nigelb> :)
<codo> TheMuso: ah in that case are there any other ways i can contribute to ubuntu accessibility ?
<codo> TheMuso: like bugfixes or porting etc ?
<hajour> TheMuso, you already seen the speechprogram to where we working on?
<TheMuso> codo: Don't let what I said above put you off what you want to help with.
<Pendulum> codo: the way to start may be to look at what speech-to-text programs need help. I think CMU Sphinx is in C
<Pendulum> but I'm not sure about how to get involved in it or what they need help with
<TheMuso> I suggest you get involved with one of the various speech to text projects that exist, and help them move forward with what you would like to see available.
<codo> Pendulum: ah ok. Will look at that
<codo> also i want to contribute to ubuntu /gnome accessibility
<TheMuso> hajour: No.
<codo> even if it helps other disabled  / blinds / spastics I'd be happy :)
<codo> so wher eto start :) ?
<Pendulum> codo: CMU Sphinx http://cmusphinx.sourceforge.net/
<hajour> launchpad.net/~speechcontrolteam
<codo> sorry if i'm sounding like a total n00b here :)
<codo> ok thanks Pendulum hajour 
<Pendulum> codo: speech control is a new team that hajour's running to develop betting voice control for linux
<Pendulum> I think it's less text-generation and more about controling the computer, but I could be wrong
<codo> Pendulum: ah ok so it helps motor impaired ?
<codo> to control computers ?
<Pendulum> yep
<hajour> yes we have people from simons listen festival and sonic
<hajour> in the team
<codo> okay, i can help with that if i can learn the code base :)
<Pendulum> codo: also, charlie-tca is in charge of bug triage for accessibility bugs so he may have a good sense of what bugs you might be able to help with :)
<codo> but for that I guess I have to find a way to uggle my 5 day work with 2 days of contributions to open src 
<codo> ok
<codo> too much info to handle :D
 * codo should hang around here a bit more.
<Pendulum> otherwise in a few weeks when alpha2 comes out for the next ubuntu release, we're going to need loads of people to test ;)
<hajour> on the dev. speechcontrol is more information to on launchpad
<Pendulum> yes! do hang around here
<Pendulum> I also need to announce a meeting time. I think a week from wednesday
<codo> yaa sure. :)
<Pendulum> hajour: would you be able to do a meeting on the 19th at 21h UTC?
<hajour> if you want you may join to in speechcontrol codo 
<Pendulum> TheMuso: ^^
<Pendulum> charlie-tca: ^^ (meeting time)
<hajour> 19 jan you mean 
<Pendulum> AlanBell: ^^
<Pendulum> yes
<hajour> yes that good to me
<TheMuso> Pendulum: Yeah I should be recovered enough by then to attend that meeting.
<UndiFineD> Pendulum: meeting time is alright with me :)
<Pendulum> UndiFineD: I kinda figured you and hajour were probably a packaged pair :P
<AlanBell> Pendulum: find by me I think
<UndiFineD> :)
<AlanBell> I will be in Belgium but should have connectivity
<charlie-tca> Pendulum: should be okay here
<Pendulum> \o/
 * Pendulum schedules
<hajour> TheMuso, i would appreciate if you wanted to look at the speechcontrol project and say what you think from it
<codo> hajour: ya sure.
<hajour> hehe yes Pendulum 
<codo> hajour: I will have to see the site first
<codo> hajour: also im complete deaf without my hearing aids
<codo> hajour: so hope i can still contribute to some parts where there is requirement to hear sounds etc ?
<TheMuso> hajour: No promises any time soon, but I'll see what I can do.
<codo> Pendulum: so meeting ?
<codo> Pendulum: i live in India. I work all 5 days monday to friday :(
<hajour> we have more people with health issues in the team codo
<codo> Pendulum: not sure if it affects my work schedule the meeting that is
<Pendulum> codo: I suspect it will be middle of the night for you :-/
<hajour> ok thank you TheMuso 
<codo> Pendulum: ya that is fine.
<Pendulum> nigelb: can you translate 21h UTC into local time?
<codo> Pendulum: if it is weekend it will be more helpful :)
<Pendulum> (India throws me off)
<codo> Pendulum: :)
<Pendulum> it's actually mid-week
<codo> charlie-tca: is not here ?
<hajour> oops forgot to put me on back again
* Pendulum changed the topic of #ubuntu-accessibility to: Ubuntu Accessibility Team https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Accessibility for more info | http://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-accessibility to join the mailing list | Channel IRC logs: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ - Updated every hour | Next Team Meeting, January 19, 2011 21:00 UTC. Meeting agenda:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Accessibility/Team/MeetingAgenda
<codo> hajour: so, like where should I Start off ?
<charlie-tca> codo: yes, here, sort of
<hajour> codo, if you want you may come to speechcontrol chatroom if you want.
<hajour> to become more informed
<codo> charlie-tca: so someone here was mentioning that you are the person to contact for bugs related to ubuntu accessibility
<codo> hajour: ok server ? channel ?
<hajour> freenode  ##speechcontrol
<charlie-tca> codo: yes. Most of the bugs we have are related to at-api
<codo> what is at ?
<hajour> Pendulum, i wonder when we become # channel
<hajour> its for hole ubuntu accessibility this program and what is attached
<UndiFineD> charlie-tca: atapi ? wasnt that cdrom ? :P  AT-SPI
<Pendulum> hajour: what are you looking for as a channel name?
<Pendulum> if you're just looking for #speechcontrol , I think that's a matter of registering with freenode?
<charlie-tca> codo: the core components of GNOME Accessibility.
<codo> charlie-tca: ah nice
<codo> charlie-tca: so how do I learn to contribute to such stuffs and help around ?
<charlie-tca> UndiFineD: yes, you are right. at-spi
<Pendulum> hajour: if you want #ubuntu-speechcontrol, I'd ask about process in #ubuntu-irc (unless someone here knows AlanBell? charlie-tca?)
<Pendulum> personally, I wasn't a fan of #ubuntu-accessibility-speechcontrol because it's just soo long
<hajour> if i understand it good it was depending to on the accessibility team
<charlie-tca> codo: I triage the bugs, try to get them ready for the developer to fix them. 
<charlie-tca> I don't do any programming, myself.
 * AlanBell agrees with Pendulum  #ubuntu-accessibility-speechcontrol is a bit long
<Pendulum> ah, I got confused in there. well, my opinion is that you should go ahead with whatever name you want, my only objection is the length of #ubuntu-accessibility-speechcontrol 
<codo> charlie-tca: oic.
<AlanBell> I would like to see it in the #ubuntu- namespace though, if it is an Ubuntu project
<Pendulum> #ubuntu-speechcontrol would work
<hajour> thats good for me ubuntu-speechcontrol
<charlie-tca> codo: you can look at bugs tagged a11y, that should be almost all the accessibility bugs. 
<Pendulum> AlanBell: do you know the procedure for getting an ubuntu namespace IRC channel approved?
<UndiFineD> AlanBell: Pendulum we have time to make that decision, next meeting would be fine
<codo> charlie-tca: ok
<Pendulum> by the way, I hope you guys will come talk about speech control at the next meeting!
<codo> charlie-tca: thank you. So in case if I have some queries I can ping you etc ?
<charlie-tca> yes, feel free to
<UndiFineD> absolutely
<Pendulum> codo: also, in terms of passive things you probably want to join the ubuntu accessibility mailing lists and the gnome one :)
<AlanBell> the procedure for creating new channels is here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/CreatingChannels
<AlanBell> and naming convention here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/ChannelNaming
<codo> Pendulum: ok.
<Pendulum> hajour: UndiFineD if you decide you want #ubuntu-speechcontrol, I'm happy to talk to the IRC Council in support of that :)
<hajour> ok thanks Pendulum :)
<Pendulum> also, I've rejoined the ##speechcontrol channel
<Pendulum> (I fell out of it in some weird computer and health stuff a few weeks ago)
<leoquant>  hajour: UndiFineD if you decide you want #ubuntu-speechcontrol, I'm happy to talk to the IRC Council in support of that ã within the set topic a linkage to accessibility?
<Pendulum> leoquant: sounds good
<hajour> great leoquant 
<UndiFineD> yes, the topic should be adjusted ;)
<Pendulum> btw, one thing I would suggest is that if you are in an ubuntu namespace ultimately, you should have an ubuntu logbot with public logs. I've found public logs to be really useful all over the place :)
<UndiFineD> Pendulum: while we understand the take from Ubuntu (CoC) there is much rivalry in this area, and we should hold of the big corp here
<leoquant> via rt@ubuntu.com brad marchall
<leoquant> ==>logbot
<leoquant>  http://irclogs.ubuntu.com
<hajour> its very important that this project is and stays open source
<UndiFineD> and that means package and license it first
<hajour> leoquant, can you pm that things to me.completly lost here in that really much lines
<Pendulum> UndiFineD: sorry, I'm not quite sure what you mean by that
<UndiFineD> I can explain at some other time, I have a meeting to attend
<leoquant> sorry and ok hajour
 * AlanBell is puzzled too
<Pendulum> UndiFineD: no worries. now that I'm mostly actually back around, I should be in better shape to answer :)
<hajour> we are afraid big company s use what ubuntu have worked on.then it lose open source
<Pendulum> I've never heard that concern when it comes to publicly logging channels before. In fact, in the Ubuntu community I'd guess that 95-100% of the technical channels are logged
<hajour> when it is not longer open source they ask money for it to use it.then the main group of people who need it cant longer use it because they have no money for it
<Pendulum> the only channels I don't know of being logged within the ubuntu community are ones where people are worried about personal things being discussed (such as Ubuntu Women's concerns about providing a safe space for people who are being harrassed)
<leoquant> indeed
<hajour> packed means it stays open source if i bin good informed
<Pendulum> *nods*
<hajour> thats the first goal thought
<leoquant> hajour we could encrypt the logs, and even give this channel apassword...
<hajour> and we have a very good team now
<hajour> thats a good  idea leoquant 
<leoquant> a channel pass/
<Pendulum> I don't know if the IRC Council would be okay with that
<hajour> if it are packed its no problem anymore thought?
<Pendulum> I think it's kinda either you log or you don't log
<Pendulum> in terms of logs that aren't personal logs on people's computers
<hajour> advice is very welcome at this part
<hajour> its that .... license part what could make us project fail
<Pendulum> I don't know that the license bit is threatened by logging, though
<leoquant> i agree with Pendulum 
<Pendulum> and public logs will in fact strengthen ability to show "hey, that came from us" if it were to ever come up
<codo> wow too much backlog
<codo> to keep track with :)
<codo> im not sure where to start :d
<Pendulum> I'm also not sure that speech control is something that a lot of commercial companies would be interested in since Windows and MacOS both have their own versions already
<codo> yes
<codo> and they are not free :) ?
<codo> I suppose ?
<hajour> we are further then first Pendulum 
<Pendulum> hajour: *nods*
<AlanBell> the GPL is what protects code and keeps it Free
<Pendulum> right
<hajour> we have now help from someone wo worked with that kind of things 7 years
<AlanBell> logging chatter about code is nothing to do with licensing
<Pendulum> AlanBell: +1
<AlanBell> the speech control landscape is actually rather complicated in license terms
<hajour> thats 100% sure i hope
<AlanBell> different things have dependencies with different licenses
<AlanBell> you can have free software with a non-free voice file for example
<hajour> so loong its not company s like mi so
<hajour> wo have info from the project
<AlanBell> to be in Ubuntu it generally needs to follow the Debian Free Software Guidelines (although there are exceptions)
<leoquant> hajour some "big"compagnies" gave their code away: IBM viavoice afaik their not evil perse
<hajour> its the main important thing it is and stays open source
<hajour> mm in netherland dislection bad sight program cost 1295 euro
<hajour> i never forget that ever
<hajour> thats more then a minimum month income
<hajour> here
<hajour> so important to do it good but also in ubuntu rules
<Pendulum> hajour: I definitely think licensing open source is a good plan
<hajour> help?this is bothering me al weeks how to do it good
<Pendulum> AlanBell: do you have any good resources for open source licensing info?
<Pendulum> hajour: I can try to help you look at licenses, but I have no idea which would be useful for speech control (although I kinda assume the GPL is likely too restrictive)
<JanC> GPL might work for some things but not for others
<Pendulum> but I'm happy to at some point go over with you what some of them say and translate from legal-speak into plain english
<Pendulum> JanC: do you know of any good resources on open source licensing?
<AlanBell> to understand licenses you have to start with the GPL http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl.html
<AlanBell> all the others add and remove bits from that
<leoquant> : http://www.opensource.org/licenses/category?
<AlanBell> the speech control licensing landscape is *complicated* because it is not a monolithic program that can be built
<Pendulum> yeah
<leoquant> yep
<AlanBell> it will be using other general purpose voice recognition and speech synthesis engines and libraries with different licensing situations
<Pendulum> right
<Pendulum> most of which I assume require things to stay open source anyway. 
<JanC> I don't think there is one resource that has all possible info about licensing, I got most of my knowledge from reading lots of discussions about it spread all over the internet...
<AlanBell> the chances are that any code written would have to be something like LGPL, possibly with some exception clauses
<Pendulum> hajour: it might be useful to start by reading the licenses of the programs you'll be building on top of
<AlanBell> I can help advise on the likely licensing implications of certain combinations, but I fear it would end up as a long thread on the debian legal mailing list
<AlanBell> which is where simon-listens is stuck, last time I checked
<Pendulum> *nods*
<Pendulum> I suspect the trick is to read through all the licenses of the base libraries and stuff
<Pendulum> and then create a chart
<Pendulum> and figure out which have what requirements, etc.
<hajour> simon listens is resolved
<JanC> it also depends on how thinks are used
<AlanBell> excellent news
<JanC> things
<hajour> its only julius  .. (forgot how to write it )now
<hajour> bedahr have resolve simons listen
<AlanBell> debian bug 596511
<ubot2> Debian bug 596511 in wnpp "ITP: simon -- Open source speech recognition" [Wishlist,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/596511
<AlanBell> hajour: do you have a link to the resolution, the ITP seems to be open still?
<hajour> JackyAlcine knows all of the details he have talked with bedahr.i was half here yesterday.(have a sick child here )
<hajour> sorry i know not yet all
<hajour> i just bin here again just a hour have read loads of lines in chat
<AlanBell> ok
<hajour> and i have not yet read all pff
<AlanBell> thats fine
<hajour> but that part i had read already
<AlanBell> hajour: the licensing issues are really not going to come from people wanting to make stuff proprietary, it is going to be interactions between different free software licenses
<AlanBell> which is complicated and frustratingly slow, but not evil, just people wanting to do things right
<hajour> o UndiFineD remember something
<hajour> rx007 can speak japanese
<UndiFineD> we have rx007, who could communicate with the japanese makers of julius
<hajour> grrr i was typing already
<JanC> maybe the makers of Julius want to change their license a bit to make it less ambiguous?
<JanC> as I understand that is a problem?
<AlanBell> basically yes
<AlanBell> slightly complicated by the fact that simon is a GPLv2 app with julius (BSD 4 clause modified) as a dependency with an exception clause to allow this
<UndiFineD> next to that, simon comes with its own version of an updated Julius, with patches. Bedahr tried to get them merged, but there is little to no response to the impressive improvemenets
<JanC> looking at the copyright-holders (several universities), re-licensing might be somewhat complicated...
<JanC> unless somebody has contacts there
<AlanBell> speech research is basically done in three places
<AlanBell> MIT (recognition) Edinburgh (synthesis) some japanese uni beginning with N
<JanC> Nagoya
<AlanBell> and there are some smaller projects like openMary from a German uni
<AlanBell> thats the one
<codo> wow
<codo> I never knew this stuff is haappening :)
<codo> wow wow
<codo> i seriously hope something happens for deafs eventually
<AlanBell> it isn't undergrad stuff, or even a regular regional university postgrad research area
<JanC> I don't know if the Belgian university is still working on things (where MBROLA was developed)?
<AlanBell> FacultÃ© Polytechnique de Mons
<Pendulum> Carnegie Mellon in the US was also working on it at one point (they're the people who did the Sphinx stuff)
<JanC> I know some of those people went on to a French speech tech company
<AlanBell> s/MIT/Carnegie Mellon/
<AlanBell> CMU is where it is at, not MIT
<AlanBell> MBROLA is non-Free
<AlanBell> "This synthesizer is provided for free, for non commercial, non military applications only."
<AlanBell> and binary only
<JanC> I know, but IIRC results from MBROLA can & have been used or something
<JanC> voices created with tools that use MBROLA or whatever
<AlanBell> yeah, that starts getting really complicated
<AlanBell> and leads to debates on whether a voice file is data or complied object code
<JanC> it's a bit comparable with fonts or images designed with non-free tools
<AlanBell> yes
<JanC> you can maybe edit them with free tools, but not in an optimal way
<JanC> actually, the company based on MBROLA research is Belgian/French & is the company that made the voices for the Tux Droid: http://www.acapela-group.com/text-speech-contact.html (they still have an office in Mons)
<JanC> AlanBell: looking at the HTK license, I guess the main problem is that you can't redistribute it?
<AlanBell> yes
<AlanBell> and sub-license which is the same thing
<codo> so is there a nice doc around for creating coc key ?
<codo> anywhere ?
<leoquant> : http://screencasts.ubuntu.com/taxonomy/term/89
<leoquant> screencast team
<leoquant> duane hinnen
<codo> yaa it is slow
<codo> and i have slow internet :D
<codo> it hasn;t even loaded for me :)
<Pendulum> I"m not sure if it's captioned, either
<codo> ok got it :)
<codo> Pendulum: yaa someone do it :)
<leoquant> i saw it, it works and is outstanding
<codo> Pendulum: it doesnt help for hearing impaired :)
<codo> leoquant: is it captioned ?
<codo> :O
<leoquant> i am on three meetings now sorry....
<hajour>  http://screencasts.ubuntu.com/taxonomy/term/89 whats the meaning of this link?cant see or hear something on it
<leoquant> i can hear duane
<leoquant> i can see the pgp coc proces
<hajour> strange i hear nothing
<leoquant> :/
<hajour> got all volume on max
<hajour> the video and my eeepc
<hajour> allso  no image
<leoquant> strange hajour
<leoquant> tried it a minute earlier sound and visual
<hajour> i really don't see or hear sanything
<hajour> black image
<hajour> no sound at all
<leoquant> mouse on the screen, left button?
<leoquant> youtube like
<leoquant> codo also problems?
<hajour> already done leoquant 
<hajour> thats on max
<leoquant> ok
<hajour> no sounds
<hajour> and no image
<leoquant> sorry to hear
<hajour> just reported it sorry
<JanC> hajour: you can also download the video on that page
<charlie-tca> hm, bar moves across the bottom, but no video or sound here
<hajour> same here charlie-tca 
<JanC> no problem here
<JanC> but downloading & playing should work I guess
<hajour> i don't need it JanC  but for others who do needed it must work good
<JanC> hajour: what browser ?
<hajour> the one above in page has a moving bar the one below not .boths have no image and no sounds
<charlie-tca> Mine is ff3.6
<hajour> Chromium web Browser
<JanC> hm, FF 3.6 works here
<hajour> beta
<charlie-tca> no beta here
<charlie-tca> firefox version 3.6.13
<JanC> 3.6.13 too
<JanC> it uses HTML5 <video> tags with an embedded flash in case that's not supported
<JanC> but Firefox 3.6 supports <video>
<JanC> and chromium supports <video> too
<charlie-tca> but it still don't work (:
<JanC> hm, seems like the video support is somewhat flakey...
<JanC> basically, video playing hangs often
<JanC> or the streaming stalls, or whatever
<codo> hi all 
<codo> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Accessibility/Reviews/GOK ?
<codo> isnt the time of meeting wrong ?
<codo> can I change it ?
<codo> to updated meeting ?
<codo> time ?
<UndiFineD> codo: wednesday jan 19th 2011 @ 21.00 UTC
<UndiFineD> it is on the topic
<codo> no i mean on the wiki
<AlanBell> thanks codo  :)
#ubuntu-accessibility 2011-01-11
<nigelb> Pendulum: still want that conversion?
<hajour> good night all :)
<codo> hey all :)
<Pendulum> hajour: did you ever get a channce to see if http://ubuntuaccessibility.wordpress.com/ works for you visually?
<hajour> looking
<hajour> not so very bright white and darker bleu .bigger fonts or app to change size
<Pendulum> which part needs the darker blue?
<Pendulum> (I'm not sure if I can do anything about the font size and there's no way to change the CSS to make it possible to change on the site, unfortuantely. it's the limitations of using a wordpress blog hosted on wordpress)
<Pendulum> I'm not sure if I can make the background much darker without making it inaccessible for people who need high-contrast
<hajour> app for changing colors
<hajour> colours
<hajour> xchat have it
<hajour> mm
<hajour> but its a accessibility site and then not can put a app on for accessibility?
<hajour> Pendulum, ^
<Pendulum> hajour: if we were building from scratch on our own server space we could do that, but there are many reasons why it didn't make sense to do so
<Pendulum> what should help overall is the fact that the RSS feed is a full article feed so people can stick it into their feed readers
<hajour> ok but phillw could make a app for change size fonts.
<hajour> on his site
<Pendulum> hajour: wordpress.com only lets you use specific templates
<hajour> and if i remember it correct Andrew MC to
<hajour> then we need to talk to them
<AlanBell> I think it looks great, and most people will read it through reader apps or on the planet
<AlanBell> high contrast on the body text and changing the font size with ctrl+mousewheel doesn't break the layout
<charlie-tca> I zoom the fonts in firefox with Ctrl+ + and it works too
<hajour> ok that i do already with font size 16
<hajour> but its good you say so fine by me:)
<charlie-tca> That's where I start too. Then I can hit ctrl +  about 5 times and everything is good
<charlie-tca> which colors where too light or dark? The blue text or the blue background?
<hajour> bleu all darker
<charlie-tca> both the writing and the background then
<charlie-tca> Pendulum: try darkening the text again, and see if it works better
<Pendulum> charlie-tca: so that link text? because the rest of it is black
<charlie-tca> yes, sorry. The links
<charlie-tca> It might be that dark text will read easier. 
<Pendulum> can you reload?
<charlie-tca> hajour: hit F5 or reload a couple of times and see what that did, please?
<Pendulum> I could also try changing to a purple or something so that it stands out some
<Pendulum> (a dark purple, I mean)
<charlie-tca> that would work, too. but I don't know if hajour will be able to distinguish the text then. colors can make it disappear, sometimes
<Pendulum> yeah
<Pendulum> that's my concern with the darker blue as well
<charlie-tca> Readability is good, it just takes a bit to see the links in the text. We can use that if it is better
<Pendulum> hajour: what do you think?
<hajour> reading back :)
<hajour> uh its not changed by me
<hajour> i have closed it and make a new tab and put the link on but not changed
<charlie-tca> did you reload? It won't work unless you do that. In firefox, hit F5 a few times to make it reload, because it keeps a copy and even opening the new tab won't let it go get it again.
<hajour> o i have chromium
<charlie-tca> I don't know the key in that. It should be refresh or reload the page
<AlanBell> wonder if I can get the ubuntu webfont working on it
<hajour> i don't know or i can do firefox also without making my eeepc run stuck or make it real slower
<charlie-tca> Try F5 anyway. Google kept lots of the shortcuts from firefox
<hajour> trying again sec.
<hajour> no changes with chromium
<hajour> if i need to use firefox i need to load some things first .but i first ask UndiFineD  if it can with out messing my eeepc again
<AlanBell> meh, can't. Oh well it will get the Ubuntu font on the planet at least
<hajour> installing firefox and cross fingers my eeepc stays good
<hajour> still uploading 
 * hajour wipes her forehead
<hajour> pff that takes long
<hajour> still applying
#ubuntu-accessibility 2011-01-12
<hajour> Pendulum, its still applying firefox my eeepc think it will take a wile.i will tell if i can test it on firefox
<Pendulum> hajour: okay, no worries.
<hajour> ok :)
<AlanBell> hi all
<AlanBell> any comments on this design from an accessibility point of view? http://libertus.co.uk:8080
<AlanBell> have already been through some things like high contrast body text and fluid width that allows a wide range of font size changes
<charlie-tca> AlanBell: I must be having a bad day. It all seems to work good here
<UndiFineD> AlanBell: I have to zoom -- http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7607669/accessibility/Screenshot.png
<AlanBell> charlie-tca: you have seen it before, there are changes in the commit logs from your feedback, it is just soon going live so they have asked for further feedback
<AlanBell> UndiFineD: sure, that looks fine to me
<charlie-tca> AlanBell: glad that one is working so well. It is almost impossible now to navigate and read http://www.ubuntulinux.org
<charlie-tca> with the new theme in there
<charlie-tca> apparently, that website theme just gets worse
<AlanBell> yeah
<codo> charlie-tca: yes.
<codo> charlie-tca: I dont like that theme :)
<AlanBell> I want to do an even more accessible moin theme
<AlanBell> starting with http://moinmo.in/ThemeMarket/SimpleMente and adding Ubuntu branding
<AlanBell> If I can get agreement that such a thing would be allowed on the main Ubuntu wiki
<AlanBell> which I am struggling with
<charlie-tca> At least you no longer have to think about zooming it. The words that are missing won't be there anyway
<codo> the present wiki theme is just ugly
<charlie-tca> +1
<AlanBell> codo: I have merge requests that would un-break lots of it
<charlie-tca> codo: maybe you and AlanBell can do something there... :-)
<charlie-tca> codo: you are a c++ coder?
<AlanBell> it is a non-technical problem
<charlie-tca> Yeah, but I was thinking festival could use help
<codo> charlie-tca: I do C but I can understand C++
<codo> AlanBell: and charlie-tca I will need to go around how to hack them etc :)
<charlie-tca> Oh, I don't think that is quite the same
<codo> but ys since it is non technical problem it should be easy :)
<codo> *yes
<AlanBell> hah, no!
<charlie-tca> But the festival project is done by a university, and bug fixes are hard to come by
<AlanBell> technical problems are easy peasy
<codo> ah give me link 
<codo> I will poke around the TODO 
<AlanBell> people problems make my brain spin
<codo> etc
<charlie-tca> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/festival
<codo> okay. one min
<charlie-tca> The website starts at http://fextvox.org/festival
<charlie-tca> They link to a UK homepage that fails to load
<codo> charlie-tca: so which is the bug you guys were talking about ?
<charlie-tca> The website? It is different
<charlie-tca> I gave up filing those website bugs now. They refuse to fix them anyway and complain if you file them.
<codo> ah.
<charlie-tca> Festival is a different project. It is speech synthesis 
<codo> ah ok I got confused there :)
<charlie-tca> Sorry... Sometimes these conversations do that
<codo> ah no probs
<codo> would love to start in something easier
<codo> and contribute to bug fixing in c etc.
<charlie-tca> okay. I will keep looking for something then
<codo> charlie-tca: so umm I will copy festival code
<codo> and hack around it :P
<codo> and see if i can fix some bugs
<codo> it is in C ?
<charlie-tca> It is written originally in C++
<codo> ah ok
<codo> ya should be fine.
<codo> though why do lots of people do C++ :O
<codo> :P
<codo> C is easier :D
<charlie-tca> It was popular once upon a time, I think
<charlie-tca> Ubuntu uses python a lot
<codo> charlie-tca: ah ok are they converting it to C ?
<codo> now ?
<charlie-tca> Not to my knowledge they aren't. They are a university, so maybe they are using students learning programming to work on it?
<codo> charlie-tca: yeah.ok .
<codo> python is a popular language among all college grads.
<codo> I understand now.
<codo> charlie-tca: ok am doing bzr branch lp:ubuntu/festival now
<AlanBell> MichelleQ: seen http://enabledbydesign.org/
<MichelleQ> no, I hadn't, but I know someone who would loooove the one-hand hair tie
#ubuntu-accessibility 2012-01-09
<phillw> hi charlie-tca have you been having problems with zsync?
<charlie-tca> no
<charlie-tca> There were no images for a day or so, though
<phillw> hmm, my lubuntu one was hanging... ahh, that may explain it :)
<charlie-tca> When it seems like zsync is failing, take a look at http://cdimages.ubuntu.com/ and make sure images actually published.
<phillw> thanks, I'll go check they're there and try again
<charlie-tca> yw
<phillw> ahh, only alternate images listed :)
<phillw> hnnm having a dumb moment, looking in wrong dir :p
<Pendulum> TheMuso` charlie-tca AlanBell: how does the 17th at either 21:00 or 21:30 UTC work for you all?
<charlie-tca> fine here
<Pendulum> charlie-tca: AlanBell TheMuso`: oops, I meant the 18th
<Pendulum> (so Wednesday UTC)
<charlie-tca> fine too, for me
<AlanBell> good for me Pendulum 
<Pendulum> charlie-tca AlanBell: would either of you be interested in teaching a Unity A11y class for Ubuntu User Days?
<Pendulum> (I"d offer to, but honestly, you two are more up to speed currently on it)
<charlie-tca> I don't think I can do that this time.
<charlie-tca> I am already way behind on things to get done
<Pendulum> no worries
<Pendulum> I just thought I'd ask as we have 3 spots to fill still :)
<Pendulum> charlie-tca: and I hear ya on the way behind
<charlie-tca> Took a lot longer to recover from going to Las Vegas and Orlando than I expected it to this time.
<Pendulum> *nods*
<AlanBell> what are the timeslots Pendulum?
<AlanBell> I am a little maxed out on the IRCC stuff at the moment, but I want to see the session happen
<Pendulum> 15:00, 19:00, 20:00 UTC
<Pendulum> AlanBell: ^^
<Pendulum> (if either of you have other ideas for people to ask to get involved, do let me know!)
<AlanBell> and it is on Saturday right?
<Pendulum> yes
<AlanBell> 20:00 sounds achieveable
<AlanBell> I won't have much time to prep before saturday afternoon
<AlanBell> but 20:00 should be OK
<Pendulum> yay! thank you!
<Pendulum> so just Unity Accessibility for a topic or do you want to be more specific?
<AlanBell> well it is already down as "Accessibility in Unity" which is fine
<AlanBell> ok, mad idea for this classroom session Pendulum 
<AlanBell> if I take the output of speech dispatcher and throw it into a python thingie I can get my desktop to connect to IRC
<AlanBell> so orca output would be piped directly to an IRC account
<AlanBell> and we can have a play with the desktop and see what it says over IRC
<Pendulum> interesting
<JanC> anybody here coming to FOSDEM?  âº
<Pendulum> I wish :(
<TheMuso`> Pendulum: yeah thats fine.
<TheMuso`> I will hopefully have gotten over most of my jetlag by then.
#ubuntu-accessibility 2012-01-10
<fregl> hi, any suggestion for a KDE app that people would like to have accessible? I'd like to have one focus to polish and see how far we get.
#ubuntu-accessibility 2012-01-11
<valorie> fregl: how accessible is Konversation?
<valorie> seems like it would be most screen-reader
<valorie> maybe the other bits wouldn't be too hard to polish
<valorie> that and Amarok are my most-used apps
<valorie> well, a browser....
 * TheMuso` sighs.
<fregl> valorie: konversation is not accessible for screen readers. neither is amarok, but maybe worthwhile. amarok sounds complex though. for browser: the kde browsers are imho not worth looking at.
<valorie> sucks about Konvi
<valorie> maybe telepathy will be?
#ubuntu-accessibility 2012-01-12
<cprofitt> hello -- anyone available?
<cprofitt> http://ftbeowulf.wordpress.com/2012/01/11/the-importance-of-accessibility/
<cprofitt> let me know if you have any suggestiong to improve the post
#ubuntu-accessibility 2012-01-13
<Pendulum> TheMuso: I'm looking at that e-mail you forwarded to the accessibility devel list and I'm trying to figure out where he uses "accessibility" the way we use it or if he's just talking about ease of use/ease of finding things
<Pendulum> or am I missing something (or do you know something about the poster that I don't)
<TheMuso> Pendulum: No, I don't know any more than you do.
<TheMuso> Pendulum: I haven't really read the email in detail, but thought that it was more appropriate on the main accessibility list.
<Pendulum> mostly I'm confused because he's talking about accessing applications being frustrating, but hasn't mentioned an impairment-related accessibility need
 * Pendulum replies to ask for more specifics
<skaet> Pendulum,  am wondering if there's been any progress on the desktop-p-accessibility-team-testing blueprint?  also is there anyone other than charlie-tca that can give me a list of the key bugs that are left from oneiric? 
 * skaet would like to get them on radar for fixing....
<Pendulum> skaet: charlie-tca and TheMuso (Luke) are your best bet on the bugs situation
<Pendulum> and I have no idea what's going on with the testing blueprint other than my stuff, some of which is in progress (the actual usability testing may get postponed, but I'm in process of learning *how* to do it, for example)
<Pendulum> charlie hasn't been around so much so it's been hard to figure out what's happening for testing as he's really the person who coordinates that for us
<Pendulum> skaet: we're having a meeting on Wednesday so hopefully I'll know more about things after that
<Fudge> hi guys
<Fudge> AlanBell  that irc orca python thing sounds fun
#ubuntu-accessibility 2012-01-14
<Fudge> what progress is being made on   the notification system instead of notify oss
<Fudge> anyone have ears on, having some trouble with orca, can only get it to start orca -n
<Fudge> elloooHA
#ubuntu-accessibility 2012-01-15
<Fudge> ello ha
#ubuntu-accessibility 2013-01-08
<Fudge> anyone else think that thread on list is getting a bit old
<TheMuso> No, debate and discussion is healthy.
#ubuntu-accessibility 2013-01-09
<Nautilus> hi all. I'm looking for a web-accessibility channel and this is the closest I've found so far, maybe someone has a pointer for me?
#ubuntu-accessibility 2013-01-13
<Fudge> bug 927459
<ubot2`> Launchpad bug 927459 in alsa-driver (Ubuntu Precise) "[ENS1371 - Ensoniq AudioPCI, playback] Sound volume set to 0 when booting from install CD" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/927459
<Fudge> TheMuso will this make it into Ubuntu Precise?
#ubuntu-accessibility 2014-01-06
<blkperl> hi, anyone know the answer to this question? http://askubuntu.com/questions/164820/default-screen-magnifier
<moza> blkperl : The link already has some answers, and i also heard that Compiz is the way to go.
<blkperl> moza: the link doesn't explain how to get to the compiz window
<blkperl> tried kmag too and it seems to be rather broken
<moza> Do you have compiz installed?
<moza> The answer by Mitch gives steps to install and then configure Compiz
<moza> The screenshots show keyboard shortcuts that you can configure to activate or deactivate the magnifier.
<moza> blkperl : I found it under Applications > System tools > Settings > CompizConfig Manager
<moza> I'm translating, so the exact names of the menu can vary a bit.
<blkperl> moza: found it :)
<blkperl> lets see if it works
<moza> I have to go, I hope it works out.
#ubuntu-accessibility 2016-01-12
<zippo^> Hello. Does someone know or Ubuntu has more "magnifier"applications for Ubuntu?
<zippo^> is someone there?
