#ubuntu-discuss 2013-03-26
<fnoyanisi> I was asked to discuss here :)
<fnoyanisi> you already know about this spyware issue in ubuntu
<k1l> fnoyanisi: did you install ubuntu?
<fnoyanisi> I've been using it for about a year
<k1l> fnoyanisi: its not spyware. its a advertisment. but its easily to switch off or to remove
<fnoyanisi> I am quite happy with it
<k1l> fnoyanisi: so you took a look at the privacy settings?
<fnoyanisi> this is not about the "software itself" but the behavior
<ejv> well this channel is dead... and the topic says: "No ranting here please", which begs the question, is there an ubuntu channel that supports ranting?
<DJones> Do remember, it isn't spyware though, its just a search facility that is easily switched off or removed
<fnoyanisi> actually, this makes me to worry for future releases.... does this show canonical has something in mid (i mean including these kind of software in their OS)?
<k1l> fnoyanisi: which kind of software?
<fnoyanisi> collecting information
<fnoyanisi> sending to "somewhere" etc etc....
<fnoyanisi> this looks like you are taken as fool.... it can be switched of
<fnoyanisi> right
<fnoyanisi> but, it is installed
<k1l> fnoyanisi: how should a search work with not collectin something?
<fnoyanisi> and switched ON
<ejv> fnoyanisi, the fact that you're asking these kinds of questions tells me that you have anywhere little to no idea (at all) about what you're asking.
<fnoyanisi> ejv : thanks
<ejv> s/anywhere/anywhere\ from/g
<fnoyanisi> I used other distros, never had such an issue. I was so happy with ubuntu for a bout a year actually
<ejv> Richard Stallman is spokesperson for the Free Software Foundation; of course he's not going to publicly endorse products and software that are even *slightly* (due to negligence/ignorance) malicious toward end-users. That's his job. That doesn't mean Ubuntu is all-of-a-sudden "spyware".
<fnoyanisi> ejv : I did not mean that. What I meant was, is this some kind of "first step" of a new policy from canonical?
<k1l> fnoyanisi: first step to what?
<fnoyanisi> you guys, using our OS, then we are doing a favour for you, collecting data to make your search easier. hmmmm... well.. we may "sell" it, but we will use this money for the sake of free software
<k1l> fnoyanisi: there is nothing sold
<fnoyanisi> k1l : maybe any music file you are listening, to make recommendation to you for any popular albums that has just released
<ejv> All linux distributions collect basic data on their user population. This is nothing new. Who knows what Canonical has planned.  They are a private company and free to make their own decisions.
<k1l> fnoyanisi: if you buy smth from amazon clicking on that link in the dash ubuntu will get a refund. there is nothing if you dont buy anything
<DJones> From memory (this could be an urban myth), doesn't RMS not even use web browsers/internet? Doesn't he have somebody who searchs for things, copys it and then pastes it into a text email? If that was true, all the lense is doing is what he's employing somebody to do :) How long till he sacks that employee for being a spy
<k1l> fnoyanisi: that amazon ref thing is more than common in the linux world. there are music players who use that for selling music and get a ref for them selves
<ejv> If you feel that Ubuntu is infringing upon your liberty due to misunderstanding(s) of the issues, you're free to use other distributions that adhere more strongly to FSF principles. That's the beauty of FOSS.
<fnoyanisi> ejv :I am not new to linux world, but liked ubuntu actually
<fnoyanisi> after using slackware for a long time
<k1l> fnoyanisi: if you rely on listening to RMS then take alook which distros suit into his world and use one of them
<ejv> ok? what does that have to do with what I just said?
<fnoyanisi> ejv : I mean, ubuntu was the peaceful harbour for me :)
<ejv> It sounds like you're looking for someone to convince you that Ubuntu is or isn't a "peaceful harbour" (whatever that means). I'm not going to play that game, especially as it seems you've already come to a conclusion. Good luck in your search.
<fnoyanisi> ejv : thanks. much appreciated
#ubuntu-discuss 2013-03-29
<ryaxnb> Ubuntu 13.04 is great!
#ubuntu-discuss 2015-03-28
<xtify> hey guys
<xtify> does ubuntu have an infrastructure team ..something simliar to fedora's infrastructure team
<xtify> as far as contributing
<xtify> exit
#ubuntu-discuss 2016-03-28
<rexonis> My mSATA idles at 44C. Is that healthy?
<rexonis> With a fan running on it it goes down to 38C.
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<redditlukls> Hi.
<lotuspsychje> hey
<redditlukls> What makes Ubuntu preferable to Mageia?
<lotuspsychje> redditlukls: i didnt test mageia myself, so wouldnt know
<lotuspsychje> redditlukls: i can only say the ubuntu experience pleases me very
<lotuspsychje> redditlukls: we also support only official flavors of ubuntu here
<lotuspsychje> !falvors | redditlukls
<lotuspsychje> !flavors
<ubot5> !Ubuntu-GNOME, !Kubuntu, !Xubuntu and !Lubuntu are simply flavors of Ubuntu that come with GNOME, KDE, Xfce, and LXDE (respectively) installed as default, instead of Unity. Other specialized flavors of Ubuntu include !Edubuntu, Ubuntu !Studio, and !Mythbuntu.
<redditlukls> What about MaTE?
<lotuspsychje> redditlukls: mate is also supported yes
<lotuspsychje> redditlukls: there's a pretty nice channel at #ubuntu-mate
<lotuspsychje> redditlukls: but in my opinion, choosing a vanilla ubuntu working like a charm, then you can go all sides you want
<redditlukls> What's that mean?
<lotuspsychje> redditlukls: you can make ubuntu look, the way you want
<redditlukls> You prefer Ubuntu vs Ubuntu MATE?
<lotuspsychje> redditlukls: install a wm of de of your choice
<lotuspsychje> redditlukls: well its hard to discuss likes/dislikes, but im a unity guy
<lotuspsychje> redditlukls: maybe you should ask first, what you really need?
<lotuspsychje> redditlukls: what are you looking for in an Os?
<redditlukls> I guess something easy, feature-rich, and exciting.
<redditlukls> And easy on the CPU.
<lotuspsychje> redditlukls: you can make every ubuntu rich, the way you want it, installing packages
<redditlukls> lotuspsychje, I used Manjaro KDE and it felt very exciting to me.
<lotuspsychje> redditlukls: maybe go for the official kubuntu then?
<redditlukls> Good idea.
<redditlukls> Why don't you use Kubuntu?
<lotuspsychje> im a unity guy
<redditlukls> KDE these days is absolutely excellent.
<lotuspsychje> morning baizon
<lotuspsychje> baizon: support is going easy
<baizon> =)
<baizon> no issues ? :D
<lotuspsychje> was rather calm
<lotuspsychje> http://news.softpedia.com/news/xubuntu-16-04-lts-and-lubuntu-16-04-lts-get-their-final-betas-download-now-502239.shtml
<baizon> using already xubuntu 16.04 on my laptop :D
<lotuspsychje> baizon: oh cool, whats it like?
<baizon> like xubuntu :D
<lotuspsychje> loll
<baizon> nothing changes there
<lotuspsychje> overal performance?
<baizon> same :D
<lotuspsychje> nothing better?
<baizon> xfce isnt changing at all
<lotuspsychje> ok
<baizon> performance is always good @xubuntu
<lotuspsychje> yeah on fast machines of today its rocknroll
<lordievader> Good morning.
<lotuspsychje> good afternoon
<lotuspsychje> http://news.softpedia.com/news/the-first-ubuntu-tablet-bq-aquaris-m10-is-available-for-pre-order-now-502231.shtml
<BluesKaj> Hi folks
<lotuspsychje> afternoon BluesKaj
<BluesKaj> hey lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> man im gonna be happy when 16.04 comes out
<lotuspsychje> all the wily issues....
<lotuspsychje> its like the whole world installed non-lts :p
<nicomachus> gotta be "bleeding edge"
<lotuspsychje> dax: the !boot trigger shows the rc.local way, maybe also adapt for systemd?
<dax> !boot
<ubot5> Boot options: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/BootOptions - To add/remove startup services, you can use the package 'bum', or update-rc.d - To add your own startup scripts, use /etc/rc.local - See also !grub and !dualboot - Making a boot floppy: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/GrubHowto/BootFloppy - Also see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SmartBootManagerHowto
<dax> oh gods
<lotuspsychje> dax: : )
<lotuspsychje> dax: im just doublecheck, while using them in the field
<dax> which version did we switch from upstart to systemd, i always forget
<lotuspsychje> 15.04 i think
<lotuspsychje> !systemd
<ubot5> systemd is the default init system for Ubuntu 15.04 onwards. For information on transitioning from upstart to systemd, see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SystemdForUpstartUsers
<lotuspsychje> yep
<dax> does ubuntu systemd have rc-local.service?
<dax> (am at work, don't have an ubuntu system newer than 14.04 here)
<lotuspsychje> dax: not sure sorry, im also on trusty here
<lotuspsychje> just tested systemd recently on xenial
<dax> elky: can you remind me to check this at lunch if nobody else does beforehand ^
<lotuspsychje> dax: or maybe just delete the script part from !boot?
<lotuspsychje> dax: as its more related to booting/boot options
<dax> !search rc.local
<ubot5> Found: boot
<dax> might stick it in its own factoid with instructions for enabling rc-local.service, assuming it exists
<lotuspsychje> yeah
<lotuspsychje> dax: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/systemd
<dax> personally i just use cron with @reboot :\
<lotuspsychje> yeah
<dax> easier to make it use the right user that way
<lotuspsychje> dax: but i must say systemd on xenial is bloody fast
<dax> https://paste.ubuntu.com/15540969/
<lotuspsychje> plymouth hasnt time to show almost
<dax> looks like /etc/rc.local should work in systemd...
<lotuspsychje> ok
<dax> i'll double-check later, but yeah
<lotuspsychje> bbl
#ubuntu-discuss 2016-03-29
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<lotuspsychje> morning baizon
<baizon> hi lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> no thrilling ubuntu news this morning :p
<lotuspsychje> silence before the xenial storm
<dax> lotuspsychje: just double-checked, rc.local works on fresh xenial
<dax> so that bit's right at least. pondering if i want to do something about the sentence before it tho
<dax> !boot
<ubot5> Boot options: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/BootOptions - To add/remove startup services, you can use the package 'bum', or update-rc.d - To add your own startup scripts, use /etc/rc.local - See also !grub and !dualboot - Making a boot floppy: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/GrubHowto/BootFloppy - Also see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SmartBootManagerHowto
<lotuspsychje> dax: so the old rc.local services will just able to continue their old services?
<dax> stuff in rc.local will continue to work, yes
<lotuspsychje> nice one
<lotuspsychje> dax: tnx for checking it
<dax> yeah, bum is sysvinit-specific too, gonna just nuke it
<dax> !-boot
<ubot5> boot aliases: init, smartbootmanager, boot floppy, bum - added by Seveas on 2006-06-19 15:24:07
<dax> aha, caught you before i made a mistake this time ubot5
 * dax pokes ubottu
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> !info bum
<ubot5> bum (source: bum): graphical runlevel editor. In component universe, is optional. Version 2.5.2-1 (wily), package size 83 kB, installed size 520 kB
<lotuspsychje> wonder if bum works for systemd also?
<dax> hasn't been updated since at least precise, i'd bet no
<lotuspsychje> ok
<dax> k removed from ubottu
<lotuspsychje> dax: tnx mate, ill keep checking triggers when i use them
<lotuspsychje> dax: hows that vote went for you, did you make it to council?
<dax> election closes on the 4th
<dax> so we'll see sometime after then
<lotuspsychje> ah kk, good luck
<lotuspsychje> http://news.softpedia.com/news/canonical-announces-the-availability-of-ubuntu-16-04-lts-beta-for-ibm-linuxone-502298.shtml
<BluesKaj> Hey folks
<cfhowlett> huzzah BluesKaj
<BluesKaj> hi cfhowlett
<lotuspsychje> good afternoon
<lotuspsychje> dax: http://www.ubuntu.com/download/ubuntu-flavours !flavors add !mate good idea?
<cfhowlett> should have already been done ..
<lotuspsychje> cfhowlett: ops have been updating factoids alot recently :p
<cfhowlett> let me test ...
<lotuspsychje> cfhowlett: if you find flaws, report to dax
<cfhowlett> will do
<lotuspsychje> or dead links :p
<cfhowlett> sad.   damn sad.  https://www.reddit.com/r/Ubuntu/comments/4cem5o/edubuntu_calling_it_quits/
<lotuspsychje_> cfhowlett: you liked edubuntu flavor?
<cfhowlett> still do.  useful and great intro to the OS for kids and educators
<lotuspsychje_> yeah
<lotuspsychje_> cfhowlett: i guess users still can transform ubuntu, installing stuff from education/software center
<cfhowlett> true.  hate to see a good distro go away though
<lotuspsychje> yeah
<lotuspsychje> new contributors are absolutely welcome to take over the Edubuntu project and shape it to their liking.
<cfhowlett> compare and contrast to ubustudent.com
<lotuspsychje> hmm dns issue
<cfhowlett> uberstudent.com  sorry, cranial-rectal inversion syndrome.
<cfhowlett> much better now though.
<lotuspsychje> lookin neat
 * dax looks
<dax> !flavors
<ubot5> !Ubuntu-GNOME, !Kubuntu, !Xubuntu and !Lubuntu are simply flavors of Ubuntu that come with GNOME, KDE, Xfce, and LXDE (respectively) installed as default, instead of Unity. Other specialized flavors of Ubuntu include !Edubuntu, Ubuntu !Studio, and !Mythbuntu.
<dax> !-flavors
<ubot5> flavors aliases: variant, flavor, variants, flavours - added by LjL on 2007-04-01 16:45:59 - last edited by IdleOne on 2013-12-24 02:15:44
<dax> !search kylin
<ubot5> Found: ubuntukylin@kylin, kylin
<dax> !kylin
<ubot5> Ubuntu Kylin is a variant of Ubuntu that focuses on Chinese users. It is a formal part of Ubuntu. For more information, see http://www.ubuntu.com/desktop/ubuntukylin
<dax> done: !no, flavors is <reply> Recognized Ubuntu flavors build on Ubuntu and provide a different user experience out of the box. They are supported both in #ubuntu and in their flavor channel. The current list is: !Edubuntu, !Ubuntu-GNOME, !Kubuntu, Ubuntu !Kylin, !Lubuntu, !Mythbuntu, Ubuntu !Studio, !Xubuntu, and Ubuntu !MATE
<dax> and since it didn't exist either, !mate is <reply> Ubuntu MATE is a supported !flavor of Ubuntu that uses MATE as the default desktop environment. It functions similarly to older versions of GNOME. For more information, see https://ubuntu-mate.org/
<baizon> https://i.imgur.com/ewo7nof.gifv
<baizon> sorry, wrong channel :D
<daftykins> sure is! :)
<Maratus> Anyone know how to run a window without a border?
<daftykins> not a support chan
<Maratus> Right, sorry.
#ubuntu-discuss 2016-03-30
<lotuspsychje> !flavors
<ubot5`> Recognized Ubuntu flavors build on Ubuntu and provide a different user experience out of the box. They are supported both in #ubuntu and in their flavor channel. The current list is: !Edubuntu, !Ubuntu-GNOME, !Kubuntu, Ubuntu !Kylin, !Lubuntu, !Mythbuntu, Ubuntu !Studio, !Xubuntu, and Ubuntu !MATE
<lotuspsychje> !mate
<ubot5`> Ubuntu MATE is a supported !flavor of Ubuntu that uses MATE as the default desktop environment. It functions similarly to older versions of GNOME. For more information, see https://ubuntu-mate.org/
<lotuspsychje> dax: +1 nice
<daftykins> shame flavour is spelt funny ;)
<lotuspsychje> daftykins: where?
<daftykins> just teasing the US spelling :)
<lotuspsychje> :p
<DaniKitten> Hello?
<DaniKitten> Who is using Ubuntu Precise Pangolin in 12.04?
<lotuspsychje> im on trusty
<lotuspsychje> and xenial
<daftykins> very few good cases to still be on 12.04
<DaniKitten> On my PC, Precise Pangolin is faster than Trusty Tahr
<daftykins> i doubt that, unless it's a really terrible netbook
<daftykins> it can also be said that 14.04 can have one of 4 different kernels, which would change a lot
<lotuspsychje> DaniKitten: did you test 14.04 clean on your machine, or upgrade?
<DaniKitten> My PC is an HP Mini 2140, with 1 GB RAM
<DaniKitten> I just did a fresh install
<lotuspsychje> DaniKitten: with 1gig ram, i would go for xubuntu/lubuntu
<DaniKitten> Lightweight... yeah sure...
<DaniKitten> sarcasm
<lotuspsychje> ?
<DaniKitten> But, why I want to use lubuntu?
<DaniKitten> or why I need to use Lubuntu or Xubuntu?
<EriC^^> 1gb ram
<EriC^^> of course it's slow
<DaniKitten> As I experienced, lightweight does not mean "stable, good and supported"
<EriC^^> you must be swapping like crazy
<Bashing-om> low end video card .
<lotuspsychje> DaniKitten: lubuntu and xubuntu are rocksolid as other flavors, what are you talking about?
<DaniKitten> Puppy Linux
<EriC^^> that's a joke distro
<DaniKitten> And, if something is running well, I will not fix it
<DaniKitten> Windows 3.11
<lotuspsychje> DaniKitten: sooner or later 12.04 also goes eol, youl need an alternative
<DaniKitten> A year is a lot of time
<lotuspsychje> lol sure, your the boss of your machine
<DaniKitten> If you want to receive a billion dollar on a year, you will think that 365 days are a lot
<daftykins> yeah that sounds like a netbook
<daftykins> those things should be given up on and disposed of
<DaniKitten> Is a notebook
<DaniKitten> search on google "HP Mini Notebook 2140"
<lotuspsychje> lol
<DaniKitten> That's my PC
<daftykins> i don't need to.
<lotuspsychje> DaniKitten: we know what a mini is
<daftykins> those all became dire on newer kernels, but had rubbish specs to begin with
<DaniKitten> Yeah... sure... you know...
<daftykins> is there a particular reason you're unwilling to hear the truth?
<DaniKitten> And.. why the "best" operating systems needs more specs (like more hard disk, more RAM, an x64 PC...)?
<DaniKitten> hahahahahahahahahaha
<lotuspsychje> DaniKitten: its not ubuntu's fault you have 1 gig ram right?
<DaniKitten> No
<DaniKitten> The 14.04 yes
<DaniKitten> the 12.04 no
<EriC^^> unity and 1 gb ram won't play well
<EriC^^> try xubuntu 14.04 maybe
<DaniKitten> Yeah... burn another DVD and waste more cash for burning the DVD... I will do
<EriC^^> usb?
<lotuspsychje> lol
<DaniKitten> Or the easiest way: burn an SD card as a CD and don't waste money
<DaniKitten> Then you will cry: the SD will be hard to format again as a writable SD card
 * lotuspsychje already cries
<daftykins> if a blank disc is a large amount of money then none of us 3 might be used to thinking along the lines of your concerns...
<DaniKitten> I'll use DOS utilities for formatting properly the hard disk, and swapping from DOS to Ubuntu is slow (but not hard at all)
<DaniKitten> Well, I'll try anyway...
<daftykins> command line Linux is not DOS.
<DaniKitten> No
<DaniKitten> But I'll REALLY reboot my computer to a bootable floppy and format the SD card as a writable disk
<DaniKitten> And the floppy disk will have MS-DOS 6.22 (the SD card is 2 GB)
<EriC^^> lol
<lotuspsychje> oO
<DaniKitten> why?
<daftykins> i think only #ubuntu takes the trollworthy chats
<lotuspsychje> lol
<DaniKitten> But OK, I'll try anyway the Xubuntu
<lotuspsychje> yes
<lotuspsychje> that wil rocknroll
<lotuspsychje> DaniKitten: youl be supported till 2019, and if you like can upgrade to 16.04 in few weeks
<lotuspsychje> win=win situation
<DaniKitten> I don't have that network for rich boy, so the ISO image download will take me about 3 hours depending of the lenght
<DaniKitten> the size
<DaniKitten> My laptop download the files about 90 or 100 KBps
<DaniKitten> No faster
<lotuspsychje> DaniKitten: once you got xubuntu 14.04 your good for years
<lotuspsychje> DaniKitten: only updates download
<DaniKitten> Someone said me that I don't want to hear the trust
<DaniKitten> That's false, 'cause I have Ubuntu
<DaniKitten> If true, I'll have Windows
<lotuspsychje> l4m8d4: hi
<l4m8d4> lotuspsychje: http://www.tuxedocomputers.com/index.php
<lotuspsychje> l4m8d4: tnx mate ill have a look
<DaniKitten> But I don't have problems with Ubuntu 12.04
<l4m8d4> I don't know if their site has an english translation though, so I hope you understand german :D
<DaniKitten> So I will not download or update anything
<DaniKitten> The games runs well, the system runs well, the PC is fast
<lotuspsychje> DaniKitten: ok..then stay on 12.04 until it goes eol...
<DaniKitten> I known a very very lightweight operating system
<DaniKitten> Even the first PC in the world must run it
<l4m8d4> lotuspsychje: /buffer 7
<l4m8d4> darn weechat
<lotuspsychje> l4m8d4: looks interesting site, but ppa adding isnt a good idea
<lotuspsychje> l4m8d4: users can get in trouble by this, ending up with scrambled system
<l4m8d4> lotuspsychje: I understand your concern with ppas... I tend to avoid them, too, if I can, but I read that the notebook seems to be like 2/3 of the runtime without the ppas, so I just kept them and didn't reinstall
<lotuspsychje> l4m8d4: save your ppa link somewhere, and try 16.04 clean mate
<lotuspsychje> l4m8d4: as Jordan_U suggest it will probably support you out of the box
<l4m8d4> lotuspsychje: Well, don't you think it is enough to disable the ppas and upgrade? If not, why? I've upgraded my debian testing box for 4 years and it is still going fine, why shouldn't I use the builtin release upgrade of ubuntu?
<l4m8d4> And with disable and upgrade I mean, disable and leave them disabled after the upgrade
<lotuspsychje> l4m8d4: sure you cna upgrade, but i would suggest waiting for final
<lotuspsychje> l4m8d4: in this stage, things might bork your system
<lotuspsychje> l4m8d4: make out for yourself if you want the risk or not
<l4m8d4> lotuspsychje: Ok, I can wait for final, but doing a clean install would take me several days at this point sadly
<l4m8d4> lotuspsychje: It's not like it's a big risk anyway. If something goes wrong, I reset to my btrfs snapshot I did before upgrading and am fine
<lotuspsychje> l4m8d4: ok
<lotuspsychje> dax: http://ubottu.com/y/shortcuts results in blank page from !hotkeys
<lotuspsychje> morning
<BluesKaj> Hi folks
<Hesulan> Hi all! So, about that Ubuntu/Windows10 thing... (http://www.zdnet.com/article/microsoft-and-canonical-partner-to-bring-ubuntu-to-windows-10/)... thoughts? Personally, I'm fascinated by the long-term implications, while curious about the details.
<ikonia> details.....it's all in the details
<ikonia> why release details when a headline grabbing press release will do
<popey> heh
<ikonia> what do you know popey
<popey> nothing
<ikonia> ......I don't believe you
<popey> Honestly.
<ikonia> I do believe you now
<popey> The first I knew was the news article from sjvn last night
<ikonia> I know you'd say "I can't say" if you knew
<popey> Same for last year when we saw MS demo VS Code on Ubuntu at BUILD
<popey> Yeah, way above my pay grade :)
<ikonia> doesn't stike me as joined up though
<popey> Yeah, triggered all the "Microsoft will buy Canonical" rumours again
<popey> which all stemmed from one comment on reddit
<popey> All smells a bit off :)
<ikonia> I love that, here is some information, MICROSOFT BUY CANONICAL FACT !!!!
<DArqueBishop> ikonia: looks like someone already released the trolls.
<BluesKaj> heard those rumours about redhat years agop
<BluesKaj> ago
<baizon> wont happen
<baizon> microsoft will never buy a linux company
<BluesKaj> looks MS is gonna buy Yahoo, ...not a good investment iMO, but silce it up and sell off the useless peices a la Ikahn is probly what they'll do
<baizon> why should they buy canonical?
<popey> well, we'll soon find out http://www.cnet.com/news/microsoft-build-2016-watch-it-live-here/
<hobbily> someone care to explain how this is a good idea http://www.zdnet.com/article/microsoft-and-canonical-partner-to-bring-ubuntu-to-windows-10/
<baizon> microsoft is the worse company ever
<hobbily> is this a hostile takeover from microsoft ?
<baizon> no its not
<baizon> microsoft is taking an advantage like for everything
<baizon> that they can steal
<hobbily> uhh
<DArqueBishop> If you think Microsoft is the worst company ever, you don't have much experience in the IT field.
<hobbily> the article says that canonical is working with microsoft on this
<hobbily> DArqueBishop: ive been a penetration tester for 5 years
<baizon> wait, let me post something
<hobbily> i have lots of experience in IT
<hobbily> and security
<hobbily> and i have burning hatred towards microsoft
<hobbily> and ive been microsoft free for 10 years
<baizon> http://techrights.org/2015/10/01/microsoft-loves-linux-brainwash/
<baizon> there you go
<DArqueBishop> If you don't like Microsoft, that's fine, but to consider them the "worst company ever" is serious unneeded and inaccurate hyperbole.
<hobbily> when did i say its the worst company ever
<DArqueBishop> You didn't.
<DArqueBishop> baizon did.
<hobbily> well its partly true they have built the biggest botnet in the world and they datamine everyone
<hobbily> they are worse then google
<hobbily> at least end users benefit from googles datamining
<hobbily> i was offered a job as a seniour security engineere at microsoft and i told them to fuck off
<hobbily> cause morals yo
<baizon> omg working for microsoft, i would die i think :D
<baizon> i mean i dont have windows anywhere :D work = linux, home = linux :D
<hobbily> anyways i will never touch ubuntu again if this happens
<lotuspsychje> afternoon to all
<baizon> hobbily: well ubuntu is open source ;)
<baizon> hi lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> hey baizon
<hobbily> baizon: no shit
<hobbily> but doesnt mean its free
<baizon> i would say this can only end bad for canonical, not m$
<hobbily> and if it builds a relationship with ms
<hobbily> then i will boycott all canonical
<baizon> hehe
<hobbily> canonical is being bought out by ms or something
<lotuspsychje> hobbily: MS tries all kinds of stuff bacause they getting skared of linux
<baizon> ok :) at least with linux we have choice, m$ forces everyone to use windows 10 :D
<hobbily> this goes against everything that gnu/linux stands for
<hobbily> im deeply concerned
<hobbily> and offended
<hobbily> and outraged
<baizon> everyone @work is scared when they have to switch to windows 10
<hobbily> all at once
<lotuspsychje> hobbily: dont take this too seriously
<hobbily> baizon: windows 10 is more invassive then the malware i write
<hobbily> hook up a windows 10 vm and proxy its traffic during an install and sniff it
<hobbily> you will see
<baizon> i know :D
<baizon> i laugh my ass off when i did read that news :D
<DArqueBishop> "m$ forces everyone to use windows 10 :D"
<DArqueBishop> M$! Oooh, how edgy.
<baizon> Micro$oft
<lotuspsychje> its like the real world, good vs evil
<lotuspsychje> opensource vs payed malware
<DArqueBishop> Yes, Microsoft is being pushy and underhanded in its attempts to upgrade people to Windows 10, but you can't exactly call it "forcing" when the upgrade system can be turned off.
<baizon> i knew something was fishy when they announced that windows 10 will be free
<baizon> DArqueBishop: yes, and then after every "security update" release they enable it again ;)
<DArqueBishop> Then you can disable it.
<DArqueBishop> Besides, the "free upgrade" runs out in a few months anyway.
<baizon> but you dont know that if you dont read news sites that tell it
<hobbily> fuck windows
<hobbily> gross
<lotuspsychje> !language | hobbily
<ubot5`> hobbily: The main Ubuntu channels require that you speak in calm, polite English. For other languages, please visit https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/ChannelList
<tgm4883> windows should be free
<hobbily> windows shouldnt exist
<baizon> it will be free one way or the other
<hobbily> imagine a world with no ms
<hobbily> it would be peaceful
<hobbily> and beautiful
<baizon> hobbily: then there would be apple :D
<tgm4883> doubtful
<baizon> they will sue everyone and everything :D
<hobbily> osx > windows
<hobbily> at least osx is unix
<DArqueBishop> Okay, so, there's no MS. Who becomes the leader in desktop software?
<hobbily> based
<tgm4883> osx < windows
<hobbily> :S
<hobbily> no
<tgm4883> DArqueBishop: you're making the assumption there needs to be a leader
<DArqueBishop> No, I'm making the assumption that there needs to be a standard.
<hobbily> how can a unix based system that runs off a BSD kernel and network stack pail in comparison to the fatty POS that windows is
<hobbily> osx > windows
<tgm4883> DArqueBishop: standards can't be a "Who"
<baizon> DArqueBishop: standard - yes, closed source standard - no. Best example is DirectX
<DArqueBishop> Funny you should mention DirectX.
<DArqueBishop> DirectX is one of those standards that's so successful not because Microsoft pushes it, but because the OS community literally doesn't have something that does the job better.
<baizon> well, vulcan will try that i guess
<tgm4883> DArqueBishop: well there was opengl
<dax> !hotkeys
<ubot5`> Keyboard shortcuts can be set in System -> Preferences -> Keyboard Shortcuts. If your multimedia keys don't work with that, try the 'keytouch' package, explained at http://keytouch.sourceforge.net/ - See !Keyboard for changing layouts. A list of keyboard shortcuts for Unity is available at http://ubottu.com/y/shortcuts
<dax> hrm
<baizon> DArqueBishop: how is M$ not pushing it? 95% market share, then they force directx for games.
<DArqueBishop> baizon: I didn't say they didn't push it. I said it was successful because the OS community doesn't have a better option.
<DArqueBishop> OpenGL doesn't count because graphics is only one part of what DirectX handles.
<lotuspsychje> dax: should forward to this? https://help.ubuntu.com/community/KeyboardShortcuts
<DArqueBishop> Again, you may not like Microsoft, and that's okay. They're FAR from the worst company out there when it comes to IT, and even then they're far better now than they have been in the past.
<dax> lotuspsychje: not sure, the ubottu.com URL forwarder doesn't know anything at all about a /shortcuts. I was looking at that page though yeah
<DArqueBishop> Some of their offerings are even better than what the OS community provides.
<hobbily> DArqueBishop: the only thing MS is useful for is active directory
<hobbily> else it sucks at everything
<hobbily> is bloated
<hobbily> is backdoored
<DArqueBishop> ... but if you seriously believe they're the worst company out there, then you don't have much experience with dealing with software companies. Compared with some software packages and companies, dealing with Microsoft is a breeze.
<tgm4883> hobbily: wait, we're praising MS for active directory
 * tgm4883 has seen everything now
<hobbily> DArqueBishop: i deal with fortune 1000 companies including MS with security consulting
<hobbily> i hate microsoft
<lotuspsychje> hey EriC^^
<hobbily> fortune 500/100
<hobbily> ***
<EriC^^> hey lotuspsychje
<DArqueBishop> That's nice, hobbily.
<tgm4883> active directory is like the textbook definition of "Embrace, Extend, Extinguish"
<hobbily> tgm4883: ldap on steriods, usually it creates nice attack surface but still some pretty sweet things can be done with gpo's to lock down end users
<hobbily> thats all i think ms is good for
<le_pig> lol
<hobbily> everything else sucks
<tgm4883> what about onenote?
<dax> lotuspsychje: "To find (and change) system-level keyboard shortcuts, one can (at least in later, GNOME-based distros, e.g. ubuntu karmic)" oh boy
<hobbily> office is shit, exchange is shit, iis is shit, every version of windows is shit, their company is shit, everything microsoft is invasive
<tgm4883> I didn't specify office, I said onenote
<dax> lotuspsychje: maybe https://askubuntu.com/questions/28086/what-are-unitys-keyboard-and-mouse-shortcuts ?
<le_pig> i remember my first beer..
<hobbily> onenote sucks
 * DArqueBishop chuckles politely.
<tgm4883> What about microsoft bob?
<hobbily> sucks
<hobbily> ms sucks
<hobbily> everything ms
<hobbily> needs to burn in a fire
<lotuspsychje> hobbily: stop your swearing please
<tgm4883> hobbily: you're pretty negative. I bet next you are going to tell me you also hate clippy
<dax> lotuspsychje: or just say "hold down Windows/Super" or however it is you do it
<DArqueBishop> Office and Exchange are other examples of products that MS produces than the OS community does not have a better equivalent.
<le_pig> hobbily: since you appear to be stuck in 1997, the proper nomenclature is "M$"
<dax> there's a factoid for that :3
<tgm4883> le_pig: NO, we just got him off of that....
<dax> (the m$ thing)
<le_pig> oh dear
<lotuspsychje> dax: yeah the page should link to all shortcuts
<hobbily> i love how when i start stating facts about ms peolpe take shots at me
<hobbily> "you're negative", "you appear to be stuck in 1997" "derp"
<dax> i love how when people ignore our IRC guidelines and we tell them not to do that they get prissy about it
<hobbily> im outraged by canonicals newly formed relationship with ms
<DArqueBishop> hobbily: you're stating opinions, not facts.
<hobbily> no
<tgm4883> hobbily: You might want to learn the difference between opinion and fact
<hobbily> facts
<dax> by "newly formed relaitonship" do you mean Canonical doing stuff with Azure
<BluesKaj> hobbily, it's not a necessary characteristic to hate MS to be a linux user and part of the community
<dax> because if so, lol
<nicomachus> whoa... this channel is hoppin.
<EriC^^> i love how when you do a i love how sentence is sounds so epic
<lotuspsychje> nicomachus: lol
<EriC^^> *it
<lotuspsychje> dax: think its about that article ubuntu goes to windows 10..
<dax> i didn't actually bother reading scrollback, i should do that huh
<tgm4883> nah
<lotuspsychje> http://fossbytes.com/microsoft-canonical-bring-ubuntu-linux-on-windows-10/
<dax> "According to sources at Canonical, Ubuntu Linux's parent company, and Microsoft, you'll soon be able to run Ubuntu on Windows 10."
<hobbily> DArqueBishop: fact, windows has a bloated messy kernel with undocumented functions that are left over from NT days
<dax> oh boy
<hobbily> also yeah thats what i was refereing to
<hobbily> >.>
<DArqueBishop> BluesKaj: indeed. A good chunk of my current work involves Linux and my home servers run Linux, and overall I prefer Linux. Still, I have no great hate for Microsoft and as I've stated they do some things better than the OS community.
<dax> so a Canonical Not Invented Here version of cygwin is going to be the downfall of humanity as we know it then
<hobbily> the only thing ms does well is voilat their customers privacy
<hobbily> and help the NSA
<hobbily> spy and datamine
<hobbily> violate *
<nicomachus> !fud
<ubot5`> Please do not fall prey to, or spread FUD (fear, uncertainty, and doubt) - it is not welcome here!  Please see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fear,_uncertainty_and_doubt
<dax> lotuspsychje: I like http://www.informit.com/articles/article.aspx?p=2209015&seqNum=3 too
<BluesKaj> DArqueBishop, yes I used MS on th ejob for yrs before I discovered linux after retirement, but I still have W7 on a small partition on my laptop just for fun :-)
<lotuspsychje> dax: seems nice!
<hobbily> gross
<dax> lotuspsychje: alrighty, done'd
<tgm4883> well this has been fun, but I should get back to work
<lotuspsychje> !hotkeys
<ubot5`> Keyboard shortcuts can be set in System -> Preferences -> Keyboard Shortcuts. If your multimedia keys don't work with that, try the 'keytouch' package, explained at http://keytouch.sourceforge.net/ - See !Keyboard for changing layouts. A list of keyboard shortcuts for Unity is available at http://www.informit.com/articles/article.aspx?p=2209015&seqNum=3
<lotuspsychje> dax: tnx mate
<dax> huh, ubot5 updates faster than i expected
<dax> lotuspsychje: no problem, keep 'em coming :)
<lotuspsychje> dax: allrighty :p
 * DArqueBishop chuckles.
<DArqueBishop> Methinks hobbily doth protest too much.
<EriC^^> dax: you know there's a vulnerability in those bots sending from outside the channel?
<DArqueBishop> And with that said, back to lurking. ;-)
<dax> EriC^^: hrm?
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: what kind of?
<EriC^^> ah
<ubot5`> <EriC^^> wants you to know: Package this-is-a-flood does not exist in wily
<EriC^^> did it work?
<lotuspsychje> yes
<nicomachus> 10:26 < ubot5`> <EriC^^> wants you to know: Package this-is-a-flood does not
<nicomachus>                 exist in wily
<nicomachus> line break caused some weird spacing.
<EriC^^> somebody could use the bots to flood the channel from outside
<dax> EriC^^: what's the /msg ubot5` line to cause that behavior? i'll forward it on
<dax> or PM me, either way
<lotuspsychje> yeah this channel is logged
<EriC^^> so i shouldn't paste here?
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: pm him, or #ubuntu-ops?
<dax> #ubuntu-ops is logged too :s
<lotuspsychje> oh right
<lotuspsychje> my bad
<dax> just PM me, I'll let the non-logged ops channel know
<EriC^^> ok
<dax> well, non-publicly-logged*
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: nice find by the way
<dax> indeed, thank you :)
<EriC^^> sure
<lotuspsychje> dax: lol, found another one: http://ubottu.com/devel/wiki/Plugins dead on !factoids
<dax> lotuspsychje: yeah, that one's known. the wiki didn't make it last time ubottu.com migrated hosts
<lotuspsychje> kk
<ikonia> dax: is it backed up anywhere ? is there any move to get it back there was some useful stuff there
<dax> ikonia: it's on archive.org :s
<dax> but that's probably a Piciquestion, I have no idea
<ikonia> just wondering out loud
<tgm4883> there's a non-logged ops channel?
 * tgm4883 envisions it's #ubuntu-black-ops
<popey> ikonia: so now we know :) http://blog.dustinkirkland.com/2016/03/ubuntu-on-windows.html
<dax> tgm4883: yep, #ubuntu-ops-team. it's for stuff that probably shouldn't be public to the universe, but is logged for the community council's reference (and there are CC people in there)
<daftykins> tgm4883: how else would they gang up so effectively ;)
<ikonia> thats hardly "ubuntu"
<ikonia> it's just gnu bash/coreutils being put into cmd.exe
<dax> isn't that already a thing
<ikonia> pretty ballsy to call it ubuntu's bash
<daftykins> nope
<ikonia> infact, I think thats pretty rude
<daftykins> well if it's Canonical's build of the binaries, then it is Ubuntu's
<dax> ohhhhhhh i see
<ikonia> it's not like they have just picked up pre-compiled binaries and dropped them into cmd.exe
<dax> "Cygwin includes open source utilities are recompiled from source to run natively in Windows.  Here, we're talking about bit-for-bit, checksum-for-checksum Ubuntu ELF binaries running directly in Windows."
<dax> that's pretty dang sweet
<ikonia> I'm not impressed and to be honest, a little bit dissapointed with canonicals marketing machine (once again)
<daftykins> you might relax when you remember how niche this really is
<ikonia> I'm not bothered, no need to relax
<ikonia> just once again dissapointed with they canonical markets
<dax> popey: Windows 10 only, I guess? Now I have a reason to upgrade the work machine from 7 to 10
<ikonia> makes no sense to invest time in developing for 7 or 8
<dax> oh, Windows Insider, so yeah 10
<daftykins> i'd say wait for the next release
<daftykins> although 'summer' is quite vague
<ikonia> it could be another product that doesn't turn up after the marketing machine says how good it is
<popey> wat
<dax> okay well i think syscall translation on Windows for Linux syscalls is pretty freaking cool
<popey> 17:58 < ikonia> it's just gnu bash/coreutils being put into cmd.exe
<popey> no, it isn't
<ikonia> popey: go on.....
<daftykins> the article covered that already
<dax> ikonia: it literally addresses this in the blogpost
<popey> indeed
<ikonia> let me re-read
<dax> i literally quoted the relevant bit, actually
<dax> 16:59 < dax> "Cygwin includes open source utilities are recompiled from source to run natively in Windows.  Here, we're talking about bit-for-bit, checksum-for-checksum Ubuntu ELF binaries running directly in Windows."
<dax> or, to put it another way (which the article also does): it's the mirror of WINE
<dax> if it were just bash.exe, I'd be crapping on it for being an NIH of cygwin. it's not.
<ikonia> I see, so it's basically a compatability layer
<popey> I can see other Linux distros being interested in this - well, some people from some distros.
<popey> Yeah, reverse WINE is a better way to make it layman-speak
<ikonia> popey: what are you thinking
<popey> Well, on stage, saying "Canonical" and "Ubuntu" is good for us, of course, and good for MS, as there is brand recognition
<popey> But I imagine there are some developers who use RH / Centos
<ikonia> I don't see the point of it, and I don't see why this is being supported to be honest, but I'm interested in where you see this going
<popey> and so might want to mirror that on their dev machines
<popey> well, if you're not target market, you might not see the use
<ikonia> what is the target market in your view ?
<popey> But if you are a developer who frequently works on Linux boxes with Linux tools like bash / awk / sed / tee / perl / php
<daftykins> ^ as a Windows desktop user but Linux server user, i can see benefits
<popey> it might be nice to have the exact same builds on your laptop
<popey> like, exact same
<popey> not some windows builds which have some of the features compiled in, because they make sense on windows
<popey> but bona fide, the real binaries
<popey> Hell, I'd use it
<popey> On a windows machine if someone said "make a script to do fu" I'd reboot
<dax> on the flip side, this will make my linux dual-boot on my work computer redundant
<popey> but now, I might consider opening notepad and hacking away with the first line being #!/bin/bash
<ikonia> lets see how this plays out then
<popey> which is new and interesting for some people
<ikonia> I assume this will be opensourced
<popey> dax: that's a possible downside yeah
<dax> but when I drive to work in the morning I put on my "practical" hat and I'm currently there, so i'll go with "yay"
<popey> upside from MS pov :)
<ikonia> in the longer term
<DArqueBishop> I have a friend whose primary desktop OS is Windows but does a crapload of Perl development for use on Linux servers. I can't imagine he wouldn't welcome this development.
<popey> ikonia: what will be open sourced?
<popey> they're the binaries from the archive, they're already open source
<ikonia> popey: no the compatability layer app that dustin has built
<popey> if you mean the subsystem on windows then you may be smoking crack
<daftykins> XD
<popey> because if you think microsoft is going to open source a core part of windows... well.. history tells us not
<ikonia> is it possible to put other things into that subsystem
<popey> we can but be hopeful
<popey> "other things"?
<ikonia> as you said, centos for example
<popey> Dunno.
<popey> I'm sure someone will figure that out
<popey> The runtime stuff sits in your home directory
<daftykins> well it's just another set of binaries to grab, looks like they all need some element of work since - "My beloved byobu, screen, and tmux don't quite work yet, but they're getting close!"
<ikonia> be nice to see Dustins work and documentation on it
<popey> Yeah, I imagine there's API calls that screen etc uses which don't translate well
<popey> just like WINE!
<popey> It doesn't completely work :)
<ikonia> be very interesting to see where this goes
<popey> Yeah, maybe one of those things that's niche, that only a few enthusiasts use. Who knows.
<dax> and I'd expect it to improve quicker than WINE given that, you know, Microsoft's helping
<popey> heh
<ikonia> it maybe useful to move somthing else forward
<dax> so that will be nice
<ikonia> but look at what happened to the POSIX subsystem
<ikonia> that didn't exactly get maintained
<dax> lol, the twitter account for the MSFT person Dustin was working with is full of people replying with "is this the secret thing you were alluding to the other day???"
<daftykins> subtle :>
<dax> hrm, that's a good point someone brought up. i wonder how it'll deal with file permissions
<dax> i guess some sort of mapping from NTFS permissions to/from unix mode bits
<EriC^^> interesting stuff
<daftykins> i would think there's a lot that doesn't go both ways
<daftykins> (file ownership and permissions wise)
<dax> NTFS permissions are a lot more complicated than mode bits, so yeah
<daftykins> *nod*
<dax> http://www.hanselman.com/blog/ is microsoft guy's blog. it's linked from dustin's, but the link there goes to the actual blog entry which isn't loading for me for some reason
<EriC^^> it's pretty huge as a project
<EriC^^> when will it be done?
<daftykins> that link doesn't even work for me right now in any timely fashion, must be getting hammered :)
<dax> the blog entry URL ends in .aspx, i found the problem :3
<daftykins> things i'm glad i don't look after - #1
<lotuspsychje> becomming world news :p http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2016/03/microsoft-brings-ubuntu-to-windows-10
<DaniKitten> Hello
 * lotuspsychje hides
 * DaniKitten finds lotuspsychje 
<dax> "First things first: breathe through your nose and out through your mouth. Donât assume that this partnership is a portent of impending apocalypse."
<dax> should have linked this to that one guy earlier
<lotuspsychje> yeah
<dax> except then we'd get to find out that omgubuntu is an inside job
<lotuspsychje> lol
<dax> ...
<dax> ...
<dax> if I use this, wouldn't that mean the FSF-compliant term for my OS would be GNU/Windows
<DArqueBishop> No, it'd be GNU/Linux/MS/Windows.
<dax> popey: my favorite uninformed reddit comment thusfar: "This is an attack on SteamOS and Valve."
<lotuspsychje> lsb_release -a Description:	Windows 10.04.4 LTS
<HamRadio> So what do you guys think of Canonical teaming up with Microsoft?
<HamRadio> Putting ubuntu on top of windows 10?
<EriC^^> illuminati confirmed
<EriC^^> j/k
<HamRadio> I'm not convinced it's a good thing
<HamRadio> Ubuntu remains open-source, but the technology to be able to run ubuntu on top of windows 10 remains proprietary
<popey> dax: haha
<popey> the whole of windows is already proprietary!
<HamRadio> Hi popey!
<popey> what's one more dll :)
<dax> looking at the bigger picture, I wonder if the target from Microsoft's point of view is developers who went with OS X instead of Windows because of the command-line tooling available in OS X
<lotuspsychje> that would make sense
<daftykins> probably, i often hear that as a dev argument to go mac - seems really weak though
<lotuspsychje> dax: do we still recommend this one: !brokenflash ?
<lotuspsychje> !brokenflash
<ubot5`> The Flash plugin installation has been broken for some time. A fix has been released now. If the update fails to install Flash, try Â« sudo apt-get --purge remove flashplugin-nonfree ; sudo apt-get install flashplugin-nonfree Â»
<dax> !-brokenflash
<ubot5`> brokenflash is <alias> flashissues - added by LjL on 2007-12-22 17:38:21
<dax> lol
<lotuspsychje> :p
<dax> !info flashplugin-nonfree trusty
<ubot5`> Package flashplugin-nonfree does not exist in trusty
<dax> !forget brokenflash
<dax> gdi
<lotuspsychje> tnx
<dax> !-flashissues
<ubot5`> flashissues aliases: flashissue - added by Mez on 2007-12-12 14:23:16 - last edited by LjL on 2008-02-24 03:21:43
<dax> k, all dead
<lotuspsychje> great
<lotuspsychje> we have pepperflash, freshplayer plugin and html5 online anyway now
<dax> there's flashplugin-installer, but meh. i'm pretty sure the problem we were using that command to fix isn't a problem for a while now anyway
<EriC^^> does ubot5` have any easter eggs?
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: we have cookies :p
<dax> ubottu: moo-#ubuntu-offtopic
<dax> ubot5`: : moo-#ubuntu-offtopic
<ubot5`> There are no easter eggs in this bot.
<dax> for some reason my brain just cannot keep straight that we have different ubots for different channels
<lotuspsychje> :p
<lotuspsychje> well its doing a great job anyways
<lotuspsychje> saves a lot of work for volunteers
<EriC^^> !fan
<ubot5`> fan is Control the fan  on/off  http://www.ubuntuforums.org/archive/index.php/t-12058.html
<EriC^^> that needs updating
<dax> okay that's gotta be ancient
<dax> !-fan
<ubot5`> fan has no aliases - added by ompaul on 2006-09-16 19:18:29
<dax> 10 years!
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> found one relevant for todays article :p
<lotuspsychje> !windows
<ubot5`> For discussion on Microsoft software, or help with same, please visit ##windows. See http://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+bug/1 http://linux.oneandoneis2.org/LNW.htm and /msg ubot5` equivalents
<dax> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SensorInstallHowto I guess?
<dax> !search sensor
<ubot5`> Found: sensors@lm-sensors, testing, lmsensors@sensors, lm-sensors
<dax> !lm-sensors
<ubot5`> To access CPU temperature sensors and detect fan speeds, install the lm-sensors package. See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SensorInstallHowto for installation and usage instructions.
<dax> oh sweet
<lotuspsychje> dax: yes, lmsensors is right
<dax> !-lm-sensors
<ubot5`> lm-sensors aliases: sensors - added by jrib on 2007-09-27 03:50:30 - last edited by jussi01 on 2009-03-12 10:20:42
<dax> k, changed fan to an alias of ^
<lotuspsychje> great
<lotuspsychje> dax: bad domain on tux url on !fstab
<daftykins> !amd
<ubot5`> For Ati/NVidia/Matrox video cards, see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/VideoDriverHowto
<lotuspsychje> !fstab
<ubot5`> The /etc/fstab file indicates how drive partitions are to be used or otherwise integrated into the file system. See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Fstab and http://www.tuxfiles.org/linuxhelp/fstab.html and !Partitions
<daftykins> glad that got added, however my suggested text was ignored - so we're still many years out of date calling them "Ati" cards
<lotuspsychje> i still got an ati card :p
<daftykins> ;)
<daftykins> AMD :P
<dax> lotuspsychje: looks like http://www.pclosmag.com/html/Issues/200709/page07.html is a mirror of the tuxfiles document, changing
<daftykins> some journalists are even beginning to call them RTG now, for Radeon Technology Group
<dax> !-amd
<ubot5`> amd is <alias> ati - added by knome on 2015-08-03 19:17:31
<dax> !-ati
<ubot5`> ati is <alias> binarydriver - added by apokryphos on 2006-06-18 00:21:15
<dax> jeez
<dax> !-binarydriver
<ubot5`> binarydriver aliases: nvidia, ati, fglrx, binarydrivers, binarydrivershowto, gatos, nv - added by Seveas on 2006-07-16 15:07:36 - last edited by ikonia on 2011-03-24 11:18:46
<dax> daftykins: done: !binarydriver =~ s/Ati/AMD/
<daftykins> i did bring up a lot of factoids once in -ops but it wasn't clear who could edit them, nor who actually wanted to
<dax> bbiab, going back to work and I think I have a meeting
<lotuspsychje> kk
<lotuspsychje> dax: xs4all url dead on !undelete
<dax> woo, meeting is an audioconference i just have to listen to
<lotuspsychje> finding a treasure on very usefull triggers to use, i didnt know yet :p
<dax> ugh, googled a sentence from the archive.org version of the xs4all URL and getting a bunch of blogspam
<dax> https://web.archive.org/web/20110714020437/http://carlo17.home.xs4all.nl/howto/undelete_ext3.html
<EriC^^> i wonder if there's a way to get the bot to ran arbitrary commands
<dax> i think the scope there's a bit outside of #ubuntu tbh
<dax> people in there *probably* don't care about the datastructure of ext3 superblocks
 * EriC^^ tried a few times, to be honest :P
<lotuspsychje> dax: we have photorec to recover stuff
<dax> !search photorec
<ubot5`> None found
<dax> :[
<lotuspsychje> !info testdisk
<ubot5`> testdisk (source: testdisk): Partition scanner and disk recovery tool, and PhotoRec file recovery tool. In component universe, is optional. Version 6.14-3build2 (wily), package size 343 kB, installed size 1382 kB
<dax> !search testdisk
<lotuspsychje> photorec is inside testdisk
<dax> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/DataRecovery looks promising
<dax> !search DataRecovery
<ubot5`> Found: undelete
<dax> oh duh i skipped right over that when i was looking at that factoid
<lotuspsychje> :p
<lotuspsychje> dax: rute url dead on !docs
<lotuspsychje> !docs
<ubot5`> documentation is to be found at http://help.ubuntu.com and http://wiki.ubuntu.com - General linux documentation: http://www.tldp.org - http://rute.2038bug.com
<dax> maybe just delete everything after that first URL on !undelete
<lotuspsychje> dax: sure
<dax> done
<lotuspsychje> tnx
<EriC^^> i almost thought i had it
<dax> lotuspsychje: rute link fixed: !documentation =~ s,http://rute.2038bug.com,https://www.andrew.cmu.edu/course/95-799/rute.pdf,
<lotuspsychje> dax: great
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: had what mate?
<dax> shell access I assume
<EriC^^> sending a superlong string to ubot5` as a message to nickserv, <EriC^^> wants you to know: package very long string here..
<EriC^^> i was hoping it would continue the rest of the string on a new line
<EriC^^> so you could feed it any nickserv/chanserv command that it would run
<EriC^^> it doesn't continue the line though, just stops in the middle of it
<EriC^^> oh i think mine stopped and made it into 2 lines
<lotuspsychje> dax: do we still need !classic ?
<dax> reminds me, i was gonna see if the gnome fallback instructions are still right
<lotuspsychje> dax: if im correct gnome fallback is just on ubuntu-gnome now?
<dax> i mean personally if someone wanted old-style GNOME stuff i'd be pointing them at MATE instead of gnome fallback these days
<lotuspsychje> good idea
<lotuspsychje> !sorry
<ubot5`> It's ok, I am only a bot so I cannot stay mad at you. For apologising to humans though, take a read of http://mdzlog.alcor.net/2009/07/20/on-apologies/
<lotuspsychje> lollllll
<dax> !-sorry
<ubot5`> sorry has no aliases - added by Amaranth on 2007-08-10 23:05:06 - last edited by elky on 2009-07-27 10:07:37
<lotuspsychje> never saw that1
<lotuspsychje> dax: link dead on !icons
<lotuspsychje> !icons
<ubot5`> Want to see volume/trash icons on the desktop? Go to /apps/nautilus/desktop in gconf-editor (GNOME) or go to http://kudos.berlios.de/kf/kisimlar/tipsntrix.html#showtrash (KDE)
<lotuspsychje> dax: link dead on !defrag
<dax> i'd be suspicious that !icons is out of date anyway
<dax> i don't use gnome but i'd expect nautilus to not be on gconf any more
<lotuspsychje> yeah
<dax> for defrag, perhaps !no, defrag is <reply> The default Ubuntu filesystem (ext4) is engineered to avoid fragmentation issues in most cases. However, there is an online defragmentation tool available if needed. For more information, see `man e4defrag`
<lotuspsychje> ok
<lotuspsychje> enough for today mate, sleep time :p
<lotuspsychje> tnx for the adjusting
<lotuspsychje> and nite nite to all
<Bashing-om> !utopic
<ubot5`> Ubuntu 14.10 (Utopic Unicorn) was the 21st release of Ubuntu.  Support ended on July 23rd, 2015. See !eol, !upgrade and http://ubottu.com/y/utopic
#ubuntu-discuss 2016-03-31
<dax> cfhowlett: I note that the Ubuntu on Win10 stuff is not an April Fools day thing. For one thing, it was announced two days before April 1st
<cfhowlett> ehhh, true.  but msoft officially supporting ubuntu?
<cfhowlett> seems ... sketchy.  and MSFT has made no such announcement, right?
<dax> It was announced during the Microsoft BUILD keynote
<cfhowlett> !!
<cfhowlett> I retract my former statement and bow my head in shame.
<cfhowlett> got link?
<dax> It's fine, I talked crap about it being a cygwin clone before I knew what I was talking about (it's not) :)
<Ben64> looks like it's less a ubuntu on win10 and more of an app you download from the store that adds functionality
<dax> it's basically mirror-universe WINE
<Ben64> where everyone has goatees
<dax> http://blog.dustinkirkland.com/2016/03/ubuntu-on-windows.html and http://www.hanselman.com/blog/DevelopersCanRunBashShellAndUsermodeUbuntuLinuxBinariesOnWindows10.aspx cover the details pretty well
<cfhowlett> so ... nothing I can't live without then
<dax> (first is Dustin from Canonical, second is his MSFT counterpart)
<Ben64> it'll be cool for the rsync, grep, find, etc
<Ben64> but mostly meh
<dax> cfhowlett: indeed, it's not something most people are gonna be using by any means
<cfhowlett> still trying to process who would *want* to do this
<Ben64> i wish every windows computer had rsync
<elky> developers who are stuck on windows because of corporate policies
<dax> I use Windows in my day job. Having those sorts of command-line tools would be very nice.
<dax> Dual-booting and having to reboot to use them is tedious
<dax> cygwin is clunky
<dax> so, me :)
<Ben64> on some random windows computer... ok i need to upload this file to my server...
<Ben64> download winscp? :S
<cfhowlett> then again, I'm still for nuking any and all mentions of wubi, yet it still carried in the repos.
<elky> why did you have to mention that :(
<cfhowlett> I know, right?
<elky> i need trauma counselling.
<dax> lol wubi
<cfhowlett> sorry, elky
<dax> isn't it still on the liveiso even
<Ben64> who do we have to prod to get that deleted forever
<elky> it's probably only still around because sunk cost fallacy.
<cfhowlett> it is.  and every, *EVERY* time someone comes crying that their "dual boot" broke or worse, broke their machine ...
<cfhowlett> and we KNOW wubi has been a lost cause for years
<elky> we do. i'm not sure canonical people have had to deal with the fallout so much. it's not exactly the kind of thing the people who buy support are going to use.
<cfhowlett> wubi was the direct cause of me quitting ubuntu for a few years
<cfhowlett> in fact, wubi 9.04 had an infamous bug that many suffered from
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<lotuspsychje> !find 361
<ubot5`> Found: libghc-chart-dev, libghc-chart-prof, W:, W:, W:, W:, W:, W:, W:, W: (and 5 others) http://packages.ubuntu.com/search?keywords=361&searchon=names&suite=wily&section=all
<lotuspsychje> !find nvidia-361
<ubot5`> Package/file nvidia-361 does not exist in wily
<lotuspsychje> http://news.softpedia.com/news/canonical-announces-ubuntu-on-windows-an-ubuntu-userspace-for-windows-10-devs-502379.shtml
<dax> !ubuwin
<ubot5`> Canonical and Microsoft have announced that Windows 10 will be able to run Ubuntu programs without needing porting/recompilation. This functionality has not yet been released. For discussion, see #ubuntu-offtopic and/or #ubuntu-discuss.
<dax> cfhowlett etc. ^ for all your redirection needs :)
<dax> (just made it)
<cfhowlett> :)
<dax> IRC team will have to figure out if/how to support it when it's released, but until then that should work
<lordievader> Good morning.
<lotuspsychje> hey lordievader
<lotuspsychje> dax: url project locked on !svn trigger
<lordievader> Hey lotuspsychje, how are you?
<lotuspsychje> lordievader: fine mate tnx and you?
<lordievader> Doing okay, brewing coffee :)
<lotuspsychje> dax: both url's dead on !alot
<l4m8d4_> Wow, I think #ubuwin this is a typical case of "embrace, extend, extinguish", what do you guys say?
<Ben64> i don't think ubuntu is planning anything nefarious like that
<l4m8d4_> Ben64: Haha, that's a good one. Of course I am referring to microsoft, everyone who didn't get it
<BluesKaj> howdy all, again
<stochastix> there is no one in here to listen to me, This is like ubuntu version of free speech areas lol
<daftykins> what?
<daftykins> i see users in here, just fine.
<stochastix> Yea, only 49 of us though :)
<daftykins> anyway, if you have something ubuntu to discuss - that's what is relevant here
<stochastix> I was talking about MS getting ready to run linux apps in windows. Then I wondered if MS might do the same thing in return and make windows apps able to run more native in linux.
<stochastix> guess I cant talk about that stuff in #ubuntu
<EriC^^> !info bla > EriC^^
<daftykins> well i didn't actually see you say any of that
<daftykins> but that's a stupid topic
<gde33> I was kinda hoping ms would end with a gamers community competing with blizzard and sony for a market of children
<stochastix> Im still waiting to play americas army in linux again lol
<stochastix> one of these days
<daftykins> #ubuntu has a lot of people that buy windows 10 based gaming laptops these days, then install ubuntu
<daftykins> strikes me as extremely foolish, "oh hey let me just buy this and then try to game on it using something that doesn't run games well"
<stochastix> lol
<daftykins> might as well buy a car and take it out on the lake with some skis fitted, towed behind a boat
<daftykins> "well it's not quite a water skiier, but hey it's getting better"
<stochastix> Some brands like toshiba screw you and conspire with MS to change the ACPI standards
<gde33> it is called dual boot
<stochastix> So when you run linux, nothing on your soutch bridge works half the time
<daftykins> no, often they have limited spec models that don't have enough space to put win10 beside ubuntu - and actually a lot of the time gde33 - since believe it or not i wasn't born yesterday, they are installing ubuntu as the sole OS.
<stochastix> HP has usually been a good laptop to run linux on for me
<gde33> daftykins: at least the ubuntu obstacle course doesn't involve killing things the whole day
<daftykins> i've no idea what that statement means
<gde33> ubuntu is the best game ever :P
<daftykins> and have you not killed any processes recently? ;)
<gde33> yes but not one after the other for years in a row
<gde33> I always joke to my gamer friends that alcoholics and prisoners at least get outside the house
<daftykins> i'm gonna switch back to channels where i understand the folks now
#ubuntu-discuss 2016-04-01
<lordievader> Good morning
<BluesKaj> Hiyas all
<DJones> Afternoon all
<daftykins> \o
 * DJones trys to watch terminator gensys
<lotuspsychje> good afternoon to all
<daftykins> hallo \o
<lotuspsychje> getting crowdy in here :p
<lotuspsychje> hey daftykins
<daftykins> ^_^
<lotuspsychje> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2016/03/microsoft-linux-and-why-its-no-longer-2005
<lotuspsychje> dax: did you find your pm about the triggers?
<lotuspsychje> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2016/04/how-to-create-a-bootable-ubuntu-usb-on-windows-mac-and-linux
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> bbl cheers
#ubuntu-discuss 2016-04-02
<jessica> https://filetea.me/t1srJPfpdScRR21CbOHorUQdg
<daftykins> yeah so not clicking that
<Bashing-om> Uh Unh, nope, no way .. not on your life .
<dax> i clicked it but nothing happened, i am disappointed
<dax> though my firefox settings are not exactly default, so ymmv
<lotuspsychje> good morning guys
<dax> lotuspsychje: yep, i saw them, went through and poked as needed
<lotuspsychje> dax: thank you : )
<lotuspsychje> dax: im over halfway the pages, still few to come
<lotuspsychje> jbirky: you can chitchat about ubuntu here if you like
<dax> !-discuss
<ubot5`> discuss has no aliases - added by IdleOne on 2012-06-24 19:44:28 - last edited by rww on 2015-10-05 05:04:55
<lotuspsychje> :p
<dax> !no, discuss is <reply> Want to talk about Ubuntu, but don't have a support question? /join #ubuntu-discuss for non-support Ubuntu discussion, or try #ubuntu-offtopic for general chat. Thanks!
<lotuspsychje> !support | dax found this one very usefull
<ubot5`> dax found this one very usefull: The official ubuntu support channel is #ubuntu. Also see http://ubuntu.com/support and http://ubuntuforums.org and http://askubuntu.com
<lotuspsychje> dax: when users join and ask: what is this??
<jbirky> Thanks
<dax> lotuspsychje: yeah, i like that one also
<dax> we throw it at -offtopic people on occasion
<dax> specifically the random people who use it as #ubuntu-expedited-support-line
<lotuspsychje> yeah
<lotuspsychje> lemme dig into factoids while you still awake :p
<lotuspsychje> morning baizon
<baizon> hi lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> Ben64: got a ghost following? ben64_ (3a928ac5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.58.146.138.197) has joined
<lotuspsychje> have a nice one all
<ruenoak> evening
<lordievader> Good morning.
<BluesKaj> Hiyas all
<lotuspsychje> good evening to all
#ubuntu-discuss 2016-04-03
<EriC^^> heya lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> hey EriC^^
<EriC^^> how's it going?
<lotuspsychje> fine mate and you?
<lotuspsychje> incomnia here
<lotuspsychje> insomnia :p
<EriC^^> good thanks
<EriC^^> put some music on
<lotuspsychje> gf sleeps :p
<EriC^^> ah
<lotuspsychje> so ill tire myself on irc :p
<EriC^^> hehe
<lotuspsychje> nite nite :p
<lordievader> Good morning.
<baizon> hi lordievader
<lordievader> Hey baizon, how are you?
<baizon> lordievader fine and you? :)
<lordievader> Doing good, having coffee :)
<baizon> got that covered already
<lotuspsychje> good afternoon
<EriC^^> afternoon
<lotuspsychje> hey EriC^^
<lotuspsychje> sunny outside today here
<lotuspsychje> going for a walk later
<EriC^^> cool, here as well
<EriC^^> cool
<BluesKaj> Hiyas all
<lotuspsychje> good evening to all
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: Good help had arrived . :)
<lotuspsychje> hey Bashing-om still up mate?
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: Oh, just starting my day .. Still on consumming my cognitive fluid .
<lotuspsychje> hmm im lost in timezones then :p
<Bashing-om> WWW ! .. me I be at GMT -5 .
<lotuspsychje> 19h30 here
<Bashing-om> 12:30 for me ... and still not up to speed .. getting there .
<lotuspsychje> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2016/04/ubuntu-16-04-unity-8-desktop-progress-video
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: No sound on this box, and with video, well .. this graphic's card is on it's last leg and videos stress it to the point of shutting my system down . .. Is unity 8 going to make it into the release ?
<lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: installable, still unity7 by default
<lotuspsychje> will be interesting times for touch devices
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: Uh, huh .. getting ready to move on up with unity . We be testing still, yeah ?
<lotuspsychje> yep
<lotuspsychje> 3 weeks till final :p
<lotuspsychje> just ordered a samsung 850 pro 128gig for my netbook for xenial release :p
<daftykins> netbooks ;_;
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: My desire also .. want to go with an SSD for ny 16.04 install ( and also a new Nvidia graphic's card ) .. now if the other half will allocate the funds - without too much fuss !
<lotuspsychje> great
<lotuspsychje> bbl guys movies
#ubuntu-discuss 2017-03-27
<acheron-a> its a lot easier to live in 750 cal / day when its not freezing outside
<acheron-a> in=on
<acheron-a> oops
<acheron-a> wrong channel'
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: \o
<lotuspsychje> hey Bashing-om
<lotuspsychje> hows the night been here?
<Bashing-om> slowed down, awaiting your arrival :)
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> lets try it
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: watching how this " drwxr-sr-x  2 www-data www-data 4096 Mar 27 00:57 blog" plays out . Keep am eye on them .
<lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: you always follow those complicated ones :p
<lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: while my eyes are more wanting to answer unfilled questions
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: Well here is to learn why and where the (s)ocket bit is set .. make sure that the poster does not get bad direction .
<lotuspsychje> morning philipballew
<lotuspsychje> morning baizon
<lotuspsychje> baizon: dont forget to spam your hexchat sysinfo to us, when your beast is ready :p
<lotuspsychje>  HexChat: 2.10.2 ** OS: Linux 4.4.0-67-generic x86_64 ** Distro: Ubuntu "xenial" 16.04 ** CPU: 2 x AMD C-60 APU with Radeon(tm) HD Graphics (AuthenticAMD) @ 800MHz ** RAM: Physical: 3,6GiB, 64,0% free ** Disk: Total: 113,9GiB, 75,8% free ** VGA: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD/ATI] Wrestler [Radeon HD 6290] ** Sound: HDA-Intel - HD-Audio Generic1: HDA-Intel - HDA ATI SB ** Ethernet: Qualcomm
<lotuspsychje> Atheros AR8152 v2.0 Fast Ethernet ** Uptime: 34m 50s **
<baizon> hi lotuspsychje
<baizon> lotuspsychje: will do ;)
<lotuspsychje> tnx :p
<lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: this an apache thing, their discussing?
<lotuspsychje> morning mr
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: Yeah , about to intervene before things get out of hand .
<EriC^^> morning guys
<Bashing-om> Hey EriC^^ Ready to have fun now ?
<EriC^^> yeah :D
<Bashing-om> EriC^^: Look'n like it is "noob" nite . Watch em close :)
<lotuspsychje> hey EriC^^
<EriC^^> hey lotuspsychje
<lordievader> Good morning.
<lotuspsychje> howdy lordievader
<lordievader> Hey lotuspsychje, how are you?
<lotuspsychje> great here
<lordievader> Good :)
<lotuspsychje> http://linux.softpedia.com/blog/these-are-the-default-wallpapers-of-the-ubuntu-17-04-zesty-zapus-linux-distro-514285.shtml
<lotuspsychje> zesty walls
<lotuspsychje> http://news.softpedia.com/news/microsoft-sued-after-windows-10-upgrade-destroyed-users-computers-514255.shtml
<lotuspsychje> nite Bashing-om
<ducasse> morning all
<lotuspsychje> morning ducasse
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: Backing down and out . Yall take care  .
<ducasse> sleep well Bashing-om :)
<Bashing-om> ducasse: taking the easier way out .. and get some Zs . See ya later .
<lotuspsychje> -breakfast
<ducasse> ok enjoy :)
<lordievader> I've been using my 17.04 box more recently.
<lordievader> Moved it to the home desktop.
<lordievader> It is in need of a reinstall though, originally it was a test box...
<lordievader> Pretty much every time there is a kernel update it runs out of /boot space XD
<Ben64> <lotuspsychje> http://news.softpedia.com/news/microsoft-sued-after-windows-10-upgrade-destroyed-users-computers-514255.shtml
<Ben64> had someone bring me their computer that wouldn't boot anymore after the forced upgrade to 10
<Ben64> ##windows completely denied it was even possible
<Ben64> it was a poop show for sure
<Ben64> they just wanted everyone on 10
<ducasse> had a hell of a time holding back the win10 upgrade on my mother's laptop. in the end she just bought a mac air :)
<ducasse> lordievader: been running zesty on my laptop for a while, will probably upgrade my desktop one of these days. it's been completely stable here, how about you?
<lordievader> For as far as I've used it, steady.
<lordievader> Unforunately my intel graphics chip doesn't want to do opengl2.
<lordievader> I might have to try another video card. One of which I am not sure when it broke down if it was the card itself or the pci-e bus.
<lordievader> The motherboard which gave the problems was a replacement of one where two out of three pci slots had failed.
<ducasse> opengl i know nothing about, is "OpenGL core profile version string" what i'm looking for?
<ducasse> what kind of board what that? sounds like a pretty serious failure... i'm thinking of getting a discrete gpu myself, but a well-supported intel gpu is just so free from any hassle.
<lordievader> It was some Asrock one.
<lordievader> Very old thing.
<ducasse> never used asrock, i've mostly relied on asus boards over the years - never given me any problems.
<Wirehunter> Hi
<brunch875> Hello, Wirehunter
<BluesKaj> Hey folks
<brunch875> good morning, BluesKaj
<ducasse> wb BluesKaj
<BluesKaj> 'Morning brunch875, ducasse
<pauljw> Hi everyone
<ducasse> \o pauljw
<OerHeks> mister paul & miser ducasse
<pauljw> o/ hey ducasse
<pauljw> OerHeks :)
<ducasse> is drabber enjoying spring, OerHeks? :)
<OerHeks> Yes, he likes girls with sunglasses, he is a player
<OerHeks> So i guess it will take a long time to find a girlfriend ..
<ducasse> is he picky?
<OerHeks> Yes, at first sight .. but then he likes anybody :-D
<OerHeks> .. same silly behaviour like his master..
<BluesKaj> 'Morning pauljw, how goes  your PIA ?
<pauljw> hey BluesKaj, not sure yet today, i had to disconnect it myself a little ago to get a website to allow me to identify my real location.  i'm back on at the midwest server, will see how we do today.
<BluesKaj> pauljw, yeah the midwest is a very stable one, never seen a switch there
<ducasse> i always use their european servers, rarely any problems with them
<pauljw> :)
<pauljw> much of my issue the last few days could be my sat loosing signal from clouds and storms which hoses everything.  i don't want to pin the blame on pia yet.
<ducasse> that sounds plausible, yes.
<BluesKaj> pauljw, my friend lives out in the boonies and used exl-[lorent sat internet for a while , really expensive with a very low data cap, but he switched to Rogers which gave him internet via the cell system giving him much better speeds and a much higher data cap with 30% drop in price.This the first I've heard of that kind of deal by the cellphone providers
<BluesKaj> explorenet
<BluesKaj> I thought that kind of service would be prohibitive
<BluesKaj> costwise
<pauljw> yeah, there's a local provider of wifi that is supposed to be deploying their own cell channels?? not sure what they call them, but i haven't heard from them yet.  if not too expensive, we'll be switching.  my daughter is getting impatient waiting.  :)
<BluesKaj> he I hope isn't being scammed by some rogue sales dude and ends with a $700 /mos internet cost
<pauljw> hope not, too.  the tech that came out from that local provider last fall to see if we could get their wifi, which didn't work out, said it would be capless and fast but didn't know what the cost would be.  he could have been selling it without knowing much about it yet.
<BluesKaj> that sounds like he wasn't informed, just putting out feelers to see what the locals would think
<pauljw> agree, BluesKaj, i'll give them a call soon to see if they've implemented their new network and find out the skinny. :)
<BluesKaj> right, that interests me, if available here such service is a definte option for us...gonna google :-)
<pauljw> :)
<BluesKaj> I'm not impressed
<BluesKaj> gotta buy one of their mobile devices and the plans are 5x more expensive
<pauljw> ouch
<BluesKaj> hope my friend's deal is legit
<acheron-a> hello everyone
 * nacc is also convince Dreaman is a troll at this point. Once a week have to tell them to not answer incorrectly if they don't know.
<nacc> OerHeks: --^
<ducasse> +1
<OerHeks> But i am a member, let me play please :-(
<nacc> at which point they stop responding, usually :)
 * OerHeks skins the troll, boils rice and adds some curry paste
<nacc> sounds delicious
<acheron-a> hello pauljw
<OerHeks> so many trolls, i am short of curry
<pauljw> hi acheron-a, how are you today? :)
<acheron-a> doing well, thanks for asking
<acheron-a> i have been checking out 17.04, looks like it going to need some new themeing for gtk 3.20
<OerHeks> it still on gtk 3.19 ??
<ducasse> 3.20 was introduced in yakkety
<acheron-a> yeah, it broke some of my themes, so they will have to be tweaked
<acheron-a> i'll be staying on 16 LTS but its nice to take a look, learn and play with 17
<ducasse> it broke certain applications as well, roxterm is no longer maintained because of it
<acheron-a> yes, i noticed all the new app revs in the repository
<acheron-a> i usually save all the /apt/cache files so i won't have re download on every live usb boot
<acheron-a> thats now i noticed there were so many new ones
<acheron-a> i create a separate fat32 partition on the usb drive to store them and setup scripts
<acheron-a> 8 gb usb, 4 gb for the boot image and 4 gb for the apt cache and setup files
<nacc> ducasse: and if AppAaarat thinks randomizing hostnames is going to be enough to avoid whatever spying is going on, presuming that is the concern, they are delusional.
<nacc> ducasse: not worth helping :)
<ducasse> nah, i'm writing this one off now :)
<OerHeks> don't let them type 'hostnamectl status' ... machine-id & boot-id ..
<OerHeks> :-D
<nacc> OerHeks: :)
<ducasse> he/she has probably already removed bug reporting and all the other "spyware" ;)
<OerHeks> tip: remove hdd-led, it can transmit data too
<nacc> my puppy certain think so!
<nacc> at least in the mornings when she first wakes up
<nacc> thinks it's the devil :)
<OerHeks> it is .. it blinks when you peek
<nacc> :)
<OerHeks> How about the mirror?
<nacc> luckily she doesn't see too many -- but she did see herself in the fireplace glass and went ballistic for a few minutes
<OerHeks> hmmm nice
<OerHeks> https://twitter.com/trollpwnde/status/846054220491100164
<OerHeks> good job, ashwin
<brunch875> damn, I recently got a camera
<brunch875> I should have sent some pic myself!
 * OerHeks hits https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+archive/primary/+files/ubuntu-wallpapers_17.04.0.orig.tar.gz
<OerHeks> there is always a contest going on, now for the version after zesty 17.04 ...
<BluesKaj> so starting at AA for the next release
<OerHeks> i read it would be TBD
<BluesKaj> wonder which silly name they''choose
<nacc> yeah, AA is the placeholder
<brunch875> anatomic antelope
<BluesKaj> I won't venture a guess ...no doubt it'll be silly or dumb
<nacc> and will probably break some tools that assume it's alphabetically sortable :)
<\9> 2nd round of names, 2 times dumber!
<Ben64> theres no reason to not be AA
<OerHeks> having zz and aa on my ssd, awesome
<acheron-a> aa?
<OerHeks> explaining that zz came before aa, ..
<acheron-a> filesystems?
<BluesKaj> running zesty here for a while now
<acheron-a> ahh
<Bashing-om> BluesKaj: zesty does well for me also . only minor issues that updates have taken care of .
<BluesKaj> kde/plasma DE
<acheron-a> yes, i was running zz last night for a while
<acheron-a> how is KDE these days?
<BluesKaj> had a graphics issue in beta1 , it was quickly solved, then clean installed beta 2 just a few days ago
<BluesKaj> kde is alive and well despite the predictions of it's demise, but kde is now regarded as the community and plasma is the actual desktop. Don't ask me what the community  means , but I read that yesterday somewhere
<BluesKaj> :-)
<acheron-a> whats the general opinion about mint these days?
<pauljw> 3..2..1...
<BluesKaj> no opinion, haven't run it in 3 yrs oeso
<BluesKaj> or so
<acheron-a> i dont understand why they felt the need to write their own Xapps for gedit, totem and e-vince reader, they seemed to have lost focus
<acheron-a> like that nasty failure on install for grub2 that they won't fix, they just tell people to unplug the net while they install
<acheron-a> a new grub was released last month and it hoses the install because its trying to put the newer version in place while in installs
<acheron-a> and also the sound issues when the went from Cinn 2.7 to 3
<acheron-a> i've given up on mint
<ducasse> all i know is that their support must suck, since so many give up on it and come to #ubuntu
<acheron-a> well every time you report something, they blame the user or their hardware
<acheron-a> and say they can't duplicate the failure on their end
<BluesKaj> it's been the most popular according to Distrowatch for a t least a yr iirc
<acheron-a> instead of making and effort to delve into it, like one of the sound issues i was having was en error in the sound_cs.py file
<acheron-a> i think they just developed an 'attitude' since they moved to the top of distrowatch
<BluesKaj> acheron-a, never heard of that file
<acheron-a> #!/usr/bin/env python3
<acheron-a> cs_sound.py
<acheron-a> https://forums.linuxmint.com/viewtopic.php?p=1237676#p1237676
<acheron-a> when i does the major update after the initial install, it still writes a bad file to the system, so i had to wait until after the update to copy the corrected file into /usr/share/cinnamon/cinnamon-settings/modules/
<ducasse> !distrowatch
<ubot5> "[Distrowatch stats] correlate neither to usage nor to quality and should not be used to measure the market share of distributions. They simply show the number of times a distribution page on DistroWatch.com was accessed each day, nothing more." ~ https://distrowatch.com/dwres.php?resource=popularity
<BluesKaj> yeah it's not an accurate indicator of the number of real users
<acheron-a> even firefox is running better these days
<BluesKaj> acheron-a, I dumped FF due to it's pulseaudio requirement
<acheron-a> really?
<BluesKaj> yup
<acheron-a> i see pulseaudio process running
<acheron-a> how is that an issue?  i am on Unity
<nacc> acheron-a: some people don't like pulse
<nicomachus> acheron-a: pulseaudio is now a requirement for FF. No more Alsa
<BluesKaj> I gave to put up with systemd , but intel audio lets me run alsa directly without pulse
<BluesKaj> have to
<nacc> BluesKaj: fwiw, i believe the decision was made to revert that hcange
<nacc> BluesKaj: as it violated the SRU polic(ies)
<nacc> BluesKaj: i would have to go look in my logs, but i think that's the case, at least
<BluesKaj> well, no matter , I'm liking chrome more and more despite all the paranoia about google
<acheron-a> i was glad to get away from google-chrome and back to FF
<nacc> BluesKaj: yeah, just an fyi
<acheron-a> so i have wondered why the evolution services are running even though i am not using it
<nacc> evolution is tied to gnome iirc
<acheron-a> i know
<acheron-a> doing a google search now
<acheron-a> bbiab
<nacc> my god, elias_a is being rather dramatic
<nacc> "15:00 < elias_a> Take care all of you. I'll concentrate on real life hacking in
<nacc>                  the sense that is not supported in this channel.
<nacc> "
<daftykins> o0
<nacc> after making fun of someone's english
#ubuntu-discuss 2017-03-28
<acheron-a> ;)
<Bashing-om> eyes are crossing ! Time !
<acheron-a> hello again bash
<acheron-a> time for sleep?
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<lotuspsychje> new xenial kernel
<lotuspsychje> !info linux-image-generic xenial
<ubot5> linux-image-generic (source: linux-meta): Generic Linux kernel image. In component main, is optional. Version 4.4.0.70.76 (xenial), package size 2 kB, installed size 13 kB
<lotuspsychje> morning baizon
<lotuspsychje> 75mb update this morning / new kernel
<baizon> hi lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> morning philipballew
<lotuspsychje> morning acheron-a & glebihan
<acheron-a> hello lotuspsychje
<EriC^^> morning lotuspsychje
<lordievader> Good morning
<lotuspsychje> hey EriC^^ & lordievader
<lotuspsychje> you guys all sleep well?
<EriC^^> morning lordievader
<EriC^^> yeah
<lordievader> Hey lotuspsychje, EriC^^
<lordievader> Quite okay.
<lordievader> You?
<lotuspsychje> great here
<lotuspsychje> morning BobbyJr
<ducasse> hi all
<lotuspsychje> hey ducasse
<lotuspsychje> all ok in norway?
<ducasse> lotuspsychje: all good, thanks. how are you today?
<lotuspsychje> great here ducasse
<lotuspsychje> 5 days off
<ducasse> ahh, nice. any plans, or just relax?
<lotuspsychje_> ducasse: and enjoying the weather
<ducasse> 22 package updates for zesty today, getting closer to release...
<lotuspsychje> ducasse: 75mb on xenial here
<ducasse> that was with a kernel update? i got that on yakkety but not zesty.
<lotuspsychje> yep
<lotuspsychje> !info linux-image-generic xenial
<ubot5> linux-image-generic (source: linux-meta): Generic Linux kernel image. In component main, is optional. Version 4.4.0.70.76 (xenial), package size 2 kB, installed size 13 kB
<lotuspsychje> http://news.softpedia.com/news/linux-kernels-4-10-6-4-9-18-lts-and-4-4-57-lts-released-with-updated-drivers-514312.shtml
<ducasse> lotuspsychje: btw, i applied for membership in the wiki team, but haven't heard anything yet. i wrote up some stuff for the grep page, maybe i can submit it to someone in #ubuntu-doc?
<lotuspsychje> ducasse: cool, but not sure those guys are alive there
<ducasse> i don't even know if that is where the wiki people hang out, or if that's for things like the server guide etc
<lotuspsychje> ducasse: perhaps the mailing list or so?
<ducasse> which one? the launchpad page for the wiki team says there isn't one...
<lotuspsychje> hmmm
<ducasse> i can try contacting the admins, ask if i can just finish it up and submit it to them.
<lotuspsychje> cant find neither
<lotuspsychje> ah
<lotuspsychje> ducasse: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/Contact
<ducasse> not the same team :)
<lotuspsychje> ah
<ducasse> aha, seems they use the same mailing list. i'll subscribe to that :)
<lotuspsychje> :p
<lotuspsychje> lets hope its a bit active
<ducasse> easy to check...
<ducasse> seems quite busy.
<lotuspsychje> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2017/03/rock-deepin-music-now-available-snap-app
<lotuspsychje> handy stuff those snaps
<lotuspsychje> http://fossforce.com/2017/03/fedex-will-pay-5-install-flash-machine/
<lotuspsychje> wth?
<ducasse> lol
<BluesKaj> Hi folks
<ducasse> hi BluesKaj, just as you arrive traffic picks up again, after over an hour quiet :)
<BluesKaj> hi ducasse ...am i being followed ? :-)
<ducasse> quick, cloak your traffic with tor! ;)
<BluesKaj> I am cloaked , but it's slow to enable hence the IP leak
<BluesKaj> I've noticed that bug for a while
<BluesKaj> I'm not concerned tho
<ducasse> i hadn't noticed, actually. not that i really care.
<BluesKaj> suppose if I was concerned I could connect via vpn
<ducasse> i could as well, i really should use my pia subscription more. i'm not getting my money out of it as it is, i hardly use it.
<BluesKaj> tor isn't my much to my liking
<BluesKaj> PIA is cheap tho and worth the money
<ducasse> not a tor fan either, no need for it.
<BluesKaj> my renewal comes up in 2 weeks
<ducasse> mine is just around new year, as i got my first year as a christmas present. easy to remember :)
<BluesKaj> some servers are better than others IME , at least here in NA, haven't used many of the euro or asian servers
<ducasse> i get really good speeds from the euro servers, only slightly less than with no vpn.
<BluesKaj> my dsl is quite slow do I don't notice any difference at all
<BluesKaj> do=so
<BluesKaj> but I have plenty of time
<ducasse> got some good news from my isp yesterday, they've increased my tier with 30mbps, and from next month hbo nordic will be included in my subscription at no extra charge.
<BluesKaj> nice :-)
<ducasse> plus they've included their own streaming thing. not too much interesting stuff there, but some, and it's free :)
<lotuspsychje> good afternoon to all
<pauljw> hi lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> hey pauljw
<lotuspsychje> sunny weather over here
<lotuspsychje> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2017/03/stacer-ubuntu-system-cleaner-update
<lotuspsychje> pretty nice app, too bad its not in our repos
<BluesKaj> autoclean autoremove ftw
<lotuspsychje> hey there BluesKaj
<lotuspsychje> welcome ikevin
<BluesKaj> hi lotuspsychje
<ikevin> ty
<lotuspsychje> ikevin: here is where we discuss topics, to serve #ubuntu better
<lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: indeed, a bit like bleachbit also a GUI for autoclean etc
<lotuspsychje> ikevin: what distro are you on?
<BluesKaj> i have a lot of my regular commands aliased so a gui is not needed
<ikevin> lotuspsychje, i use mint for work and ubuntu for personnal use
<lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: same here, but some new users might like GUI apps like that, looks pretty neat that stacer
<ikevin> i've some servers on ubuntu server and debian too
<lotuspsychje> ikevin: LTS or non-lts?
<ikevin> non lts, i always update to the last stable
<ikevin> so, for servers i use lts
<ikevin> but*
<lotuspsychje> ikevin: cool! mint as personal choice, or your work, works with it by default?
<ikevin> personnal choice, i'm the founder of my compagny
<lotuspsychje> oh nice, what do you do ikevin?
<ikevin> i'm developper
<lotuspsychje> neat
<lotuspsychje> i wonder what munich will do now..stick to ubuntu or leave to windows again
<lotuspsychje> https://www.ubuntu.com/desktop/government
<lotuspsychje> https://itsfoss.com/munich-linux-failure/
<BluesKaj> costs plenty in man hours and money to switch OSs on that scale
<ikevin> in some case it need some specifics software to be developped
<lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: true, but i wonder how safe the network is when staying years on broken windows boxesÂµ
<lotuspsychje> howdy brunch875
<BluesKaj> lotuspsychje, the switch to MS is really unfortunate, there must be a lot of pressure by MS lobbyists in Bonn and Berlin, not just Munich. It's very disappointing. :/
<lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: yeah think so too
<BluesKaj> the MS anti viruses companies are gonna gave a field day now
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> perhaps they should have chosen vanilla ubuntu instead of limux
<lotuspsychje> afternoon pavlushka
<BluesKaj> lotuspsychje, I think the Munich city council will more than regret their decision , W10 is an awful OS
<pavlushka> afternoon lotuspsychje :)
<pavlushka> lol
<lotuspsychje> pavlushka: you joined at the right time :p
<lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: it sure is, we will follow its developments in germany
<pavlushka> lotuspsychje: that's I am, the person who joins at the right time :p
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> OerHeks: !
<BluesKaj> lotuspsychje, I'm sure you'll keep us informed :-)
<lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: my eyes are pointed to the latest daily :p
<OerHeks> hello hello :-)
<BluesKaj> hey OerHeks
<lotuspsychje> just on time for some ubuntu vanilla coffee with a !cookie
<pauljw> hi OerHeks
<lotuspsychje> for those who didnt see this mornings url: wth..http://fossforce.com/2017/03/fedex-will-pay-5-install-flash-machine/
 * lotuspsychje is grabbing 5$ greedy :p
<ducasse> they would need to add some zeroes behind that to get me to install flash on my systems :)
<lotuspsychje> wahaha
<lotuspsychje> install flash and get 10 exploits free with it
<brunch875> damn
<ikevin> lotuspsychje, + some freeze :p
<pauljw> brb
<lotuspsychje> wildpenguin = crazytux?
<ducasse> i was wondering exactly the same thing.
<OerHeks> something like that
<lotuspsychje> smells like troll :p
<ducasse> "i've installed mate and now i want lubuntu" sounds all too familiar
<lotuspsychje> lol
<OerHeks> he is on kali.
<ducasse> he said mate earlier, but he knows well enough what we support...
<lotuspsychje> i surely saw him changing nicks before
<OerHeks> â« lonely people
<ducasse> from...? too lazy to check.
<lotuspsychje> servers (freenode)/#debian.log:jan 14 09:44:24 * WildPenguin is now known as CrazyTux
<ducasse> surprise...
<lotuspsychje> @1127 http://her0.be/index.php?action=logfile&date=20170114
<lotuspsychje> #debian and #ubuntu troll installing mate, 16.10,lubuntu and kali lol
<lotuspsychje> afternoon acheron-a
<ducasse> lotuspsychje: should we ask for lsb-release output?
<lotuspsychje> ducasse: perhaps he will outsmart us?
<acheron-a> hello lotuspsychje
<ducasse> maybe, maybe not.
<lotuspsychje> ducasse: maybe trick him with cat issue lol
<ducasse> i'll wait until he asks something.
<lotuspsychje> great
<lotuspsychje> no luck, he left :p
<ducasse> i noticed.
<lotuspsychje> bbl sunwalk
<ducasse> lotuspsychje: enjoy! :)
<OerHeks> Update your "Eject" package. Eject could be made to run programs as an administrator. Affects versions: 12.04 LTS, 14.04 LTS, 16.04 LTS, and 16.10
<lotuspsychje> !info eject
<ubot5> eject (source: eject): ejects CDs and operates CD-Changers under Linux. In component main, is important. Version 2.1.5+deb1+cvs20081104-13.1ubuntu0.16.04.1 (xenial), package size 23 kB, installed size 152 kB
<lotuspsychje> we should have up to date !nvidia & !amd/ati triggers when things change on ubuntu versions
<nacc> lotuspsychje: yeah, that would be good
<lotuspsychje> all the explaining we need to do right now
<lotuspsychje> !amd
<ubot5> Open driver for AMD cards: amdgpu (cards >= GCN1.2 aka GCN 3rd gen), radeon (older cards). Closed drivers: amdgpu-pro (>= GCN1.2) fglrx (older cards, unsupported by AMD in 16.04+). For info on GCN levels, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_AMD_graphics_processing_units . For fglrx info, see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/BinaryDriverHowto/AMD
<nacc> this is alsowhere the hwe gets users confused
<nacc> 14.04.5 is an archive snapshot and a kerenl/X stack
<lotuspsychje> right
<lotuspsychje> amd trigger seems updated
<lotuspsychje> !nvidia
<ubot5> For nvidia and matrox graphics cards, see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/VideoDriverHowto . For AMD/ATI graphics cards, see Â« /msg ubottu ati Â» and Â« /msg ubottu fglrxmissing Â»
<lotuspsychje> lets check wiki date here
<lotuspsychje> 7/2016 not bad
<lotuspsychje> 12/2016 for amd
<lotuspsychje> looking pretty good
<ducasse> if only people read and understood the links :)
<lotuspsychje> yeah, thats tricky indeed
<nacc> i got an ack to update the 14.04 release notes
<lotuspsychje> what you mean nacc?
<nacc> to clarify flgrx support
<nacc> fglrx :)
<lotuspsychje> kk
<ducasse> nacc: "catalyst" was easier to remember and spell :)
<nacc> heh
<lotuspsychje> nacc: anything usefull here? https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RadeonDriver
<nacc> ah yes htat's good
<nacc> but it really should have been in the release notes
<lotuspsychje> with !radeon triggers forward to !amd
<lotuspsychje> and !releasenotes goes to xenial right now
<brunch875> I just spotted the tiobe index
<brunch875> javascript is going up onoooooo
<brunch875> I had hoped to see Rust over there
<nacc> lotuspsychje: grrr, really need the latter to be per-release :)
<brunch875> but if C is going down so quickly... what is ubuntu being developed on?
<nacc> go
<lotuspsychje> nacc: yeah i know..
<brunch875> isn't go interpreted?
<nacc> brunch875: you can statically compile it, as well
<lotuspsychje> brb
<nacc> brunch875: also, i don't trust any such garbage sites :) the kernel is still in c
<nacc> brunch875: and 'ubuntu being developed on' is a nonsense question -- every language under the sun
<brunch875> ah yes, I know :)
<brunch875> but I had Qt in mind
<brunch875> which implies C++ for the most part
<brunch875> which means performance!
<brunch875> since nowadays a lot of applications are developed in javascript, I'm full of fears
<ducasse> death to electron
<brunch875> death to electron!
<nacc> updated https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TrustyTahr/ReleaseNotes lotuspsychje
<nacc> brunch875: i don't know of any end-user applications that are 'developed' in javascript -- do you mean web apps/phone apps?
<brunch875> nacc: I was mostly referring to apps such as atom, the discord client or the newest skype
<nacc> !info atom
<ubot5> Package atom does not exist in xenial
<nacc> !info discord
<ubot5> Package discord does not exist in xenial
<nacc> !info skype
<ubot5> Package skype does not exist in xenial
<brunch875> haha surely you know what skype is :p
<nacc> none of those are relevant to 'ubuntu being developed on'
<nacc> as none are in ubuntu
<brunch875> fair enough! But you understand my fear of ubuntu hopping onto this trend, right?
<nacc> no
<nacc> you mentioned 3 applications, none of which are in ubuntu
<nacc> and aren't in zesty either
<nacc> skype is a web based application, it can possibly be reasonable to write in js
<nacc> for the web-based client, which is all that will exist eventually
<nacc> but even then, it's not *all* js
<nacc> there's still a server side application doing all the heavy lifting
<nacc> and i feel like you are saying all of ubuntu is some monolithic thing
<nacc> we still have fortran compilers
<nacc> and COBOL
<nacc> so will ubuntu allow you to build your app using whatever junk is out there?
<nacc> probably
<brunch875> what I feel like is ubuntu is mostly a performing operating system
<nacc> will ubuntu ship an app that builds with that junk? if an upstream decides to
<brunch875> without excessive overhead
<nacc> ubuntu does not dictate what upstreams do or do not decide to do
<brunch875> who decides what goes on upstream?
<nacc> ...
<nacc> upstream?
<brunch875> errr lemme rephrase
<nacc> brunch875: do you know how open source distributions work? :)
<brunch875> who decides what upstreams we get?
<brunch875> nacc: for the most part, no
<nacc> brunch875: ah ok
<nacc> brunch875: upstreams are (generally) distribution agnostic
<nacc> e.g., a github project
<nacc> distributions pacakge those upstreams for easy consumability by users
<nacc> so packagers decide what upstream exist
<nacc> in ubuntu, almost all of them are from debian
<brunch875> so as long as debian doesn't become senile, we're good
<nacc> ubuntu also does some of its own packaging and goes ahead of debian, where debian's rules might be a bit restrictive
<nacc> and snaps will change things further
<ducasse> is appimage support for ubuntu planned?
<nacc> ducasse: is that a flatpak/snap competitor?
<ducasse> yep.
<ducasse> i noticed flatpak support exists, so just curious.
<nacc> yeah,  i htink jbicha got flatpak support in, although in universe (snap support is in main of course)
<nacc> ducasse: hrm, not seeing it in 17.04, but their site mentions they support ubuntu
<nacc> ah they have their own .deb :/
<ducasse> ah nice :) maybe 17.10, then :) i just noticed it wasn't in zesty here.
<nacc> https://github.com/probonopd/AppImageKit/issues/339
<ducasse> thanks, nacc
<nacc> looks like debian packaging is forthcoming?
<nacc> https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=854902
<ubot5> Debian bug 854902 in wnpp "ITP: appimagekit -- package desktop applications as AppImages that run on common Linux-based distributions" [Wishlist,Open]
<nacc> ducasse: i presume we'd get it automatically after that via sync
<ducasse> right. sounds reasonable.
<nacc> i think canonical has a vested interest in snaps; flatpak and appimage and others are competitors, and i think it's all a question of which wins the market share
<nacc> i don't think it'd be great to have 2 or 3 of these formats out there
<nacc> i think clear linux has their own as well
<brunch875> let us hope one wins clearly
<ducasse> tbh, i hope it won't be snaps
<brunch875> why's that, ducasse?
<ducasse> flatpak allows anyone to set up a repo and provides the necessary software, not so for snaps. has to be the ubuntu store.
<davidj> So! Anyone using 17 yet? If so, stable?
<davidj> 16 has been a shitfest for me, was hoping 17 would be a step up.
<brunch875> davidj: Using it. I think I had more crashes in 16
<ducasse> davidj: it's been stable here, but so was 16.04/16.10.
<davidj> Hm. Nothing but crashes for me perpetually.
<brunch875> I've only had one single crash and I believe it was my mistake
 * davidj nods. Well, guess I'll give it a try instead of sincerely contemplating swapping to windows ;)
<nacc> ducasse: that will be changing
<nacc> ducasse: aiui
<ducasse> nacc: oh? good.
<nacc> ducasse: yeah, 'on-premise' store
<brunch875> I'm a big fan of snaps because on how the plugs seem to work
<nacc> ducasse: i think you can actually do it already, just requires some setup
<brunch875> I only dislike that confinement sometimes goes in the way
<brunch875> ie: can't click links on hexchat
<brunch875> have to select, copy and paste
<nacc> with the argument that once it 'just works', confinement is a huge win
<nacc> brunch875: yeah, i assume that's a *bus issue ?
<brunch875> nacc: no idea, never debugged it :
<brunch875> but probably
<nacc> brunch875: the whole desktop side of things is tricky
<nacc> and snaps/flatpak/etc show how messy desktop has gotten
<nacc> dependencies not being expressed, etc
<brunch875> that's the problem with already developed technologies
<brunch875> it's hard to retract from mistakes
 * nacc wonders if they've fixed the issue where you can't just use two apache-based snaps because they compete for port 80
<brunch875> I wonder if snaps will ever 'just work' or if confinement will become a never-ending headache
<brunch875> where many installation instructions will prompt to "disable confinement"
<nacc> brunch875: it's only been a year or so :)
<nacc> brunch875: give it time
<nacc> brunch875: well of the more aggressive model (UC16)
<brunch875> nacc: believe me, I'm already suprised on how good it works
<brunch875> otherwise I wouldn't use it over the 'regular' applications
<nacc> yeah, they have done some amazing work, imo -- some things are way easier
<nacc> esp. where upstream has owned the application, then you get the latest all the time, if you want (edge channel)
<brunch875> heck, I can even drag-and-drop pictures to telegram
<brunch875> but then I think about pip3
<brunch875> and I really wonder how's that going to work with snaps
<davidj> Yay. 17 is already more stable than 16 was for me. Thanks @brunch875
<davidj> No graphics issues lingering. Then again, only booted a few moments. Let's see how it fairs :p
<brunch875> davidj: already installed? Haha! Don't thank me, thank the developers :p
<davidj> True, true.
<lotuspsychje> nacc: didnt know you always was a wiki edit member?
<davidj> Curious â anyone ever have issues with scroll wheel speeds? Razer synapse. Was going to try imwheel..., just didn't want to have to make a config for every program.
 * davidj despises tinkering, I think I'm on the wrong OS :/
<lotuspsychje> evening baizon
<lotuspsychje> brunch875: the snap list grows by the minute..big list already
<lotuspsychje> nacc: nice work on the wiki
<nacc> lotuspsychje: np
<brunch875> lotuspsychje: how can I check? 'snap find' only shows 4 entries
<ducasse> brunch875: give it a keyword
<lotuspsychje> nacc: does the wiki team have a special irc channel? or you subscribed to the mailing?
<baizon> well hello there lotuspsychje
<nacc> lotuspsychje: i don't think so -- i just asked timo in #ubuntu-devel
<lotuspsychje> aha, you got connections nacc, good to know :p
<nacc> lotuspsychje: :)
<ducasse> brunch875: try 'snap find searchterm'
<lotuspsychje> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2017/03/rock-deepin-music-now-available-snap-app
<nacc> lotuspsychje: and i'm a core-dev, so i can help usher fixes in
<brunch875> ducasse: yeah, searching for 'a' got me a couple of entries
<lotuspsychje> ducasse: Â¨^handy for us wiki edits
<nacc> not meant to be braggy, meant to be helpful :)
<lotuspsychje> we know mate dont worry
<lotuspsychje> we are simply the best lol
<nacc> heh
<lotuspsychje> time for snap to get that latest snaps search again grrr
<lotuspsychje> snap find * or something
<nacc> yeah, i think te biggest issue for snaps is all tooling
<nacc> snap was broken for a while, and the 'api' keeps changing
<ducasse> man, the snap 'find' command works in mysterious ways...
<nacc> it's very much a wip
<brunch875> rename it to "snap god"
<nacc> i think the software GUI thing can also search for snaps, but i'm not sure
<lotuspsychje> good ol apt is always stable
 * nacc found a nice bug in it recently (well not in apt itself, but in ubuntu)
<lotuspsychje> nacc: yes it does, and requiers ubuntu one account to install
<nacc> lotuspsychje: right, so you can login to the store, i guess
<lotuspsychje> lemme test that deepin snap holdon
<nacc> brunch875: my guess as to the link issue with hexchat, is that, as you say, it requires mediation by someting to say what a link means to hexchat (or hexchat could technically ship their own browser :)
<nacc> brunch875: in confined mode, that is, since it only sees hexchat (presumably) and its libs in the squashfs it runs in
<lotuspsychje> yep, deepin-music showsup ubuntu-software
<brunch875> oh, so hexchat isn't launching firefox because it doesn't exist
<brunch875> witty
<lotuspsychje> asking my ubuntu one account
<nacc> brunch875: right, in confined mode, it presumably does not
<brunch875> lotuspsychje: I got two snaps and it never asked me for login
<lotuspsychje> brunch875: did you install it the sudo way?
<ducasse> brunch875: only certain ones do
<nacc> brunch875: i think there was some discussion in #snappy of the equivalent of a 'browser' plug
<brunch875> ah I see
<nacc> or interface
<nacc> so that you can say, i need a browser to exist (or if it exists, connect me to it) in your snap
<nacc> and then you send browser requests to it
<brunch875> nacc: what about <program>:// urls?
<nacc> it is interesting how it ends up looking like a massive message-passing thing
<nacc> brunch875: i don't know any of the details, tbh :)
<nacc> and what i do recall is out of date quickly it feels like :)
 * nacc is not on that team directly
<lotuspsychje> the new eject exploit oerheks suggested us: https://www.ubuntu.com/usn/usn-3246-1/
<brunch875> solution: deprecate optical drives forever
<lotuspsychje> lotuspsychje@RooTBooK:~$ apt-cache policy eject
<lotuspsychje> eject:
<lotuspsychje>   GeÃ¯nstalleerd: 2.1.5+deb1+cvs20081104-13.1ubuntu0.16.04.1
<lotuspsychje> im good :p
<lotuspsychje> !info eject xenial
<ubot5> eject (source: eject): ejects CDs and operates CD-Changers under Linux. In component main, is important. Version 2.1.5+deb1+cvs20081104-13.1ubuntu0.16.04.1 (xenial), package size 23 kB, installed size 152 kB
<lotuspsychje> yeah its true that generic guy is here all day..not sure who or what solved or not...
<nacc> lotuspsychje: ah ok, thanks!
<ducasse> lotuspsychje: asking 10 questions/minute...
<lotuspsychje> sometimes i have irc dejavu's of usernames that keep comming back with all the same questions lol
<nacc> Dreaman is on my hitlist right now (mentally)
<lotuspsychje> we have nightmares of crazytux alias wildpenguin lol
<nacc> lol
<lotuspsychje> think im gonna write a blacklist
<ducasse> my personal 'favorite' has to be crazytux, yes
<lotuspsychje> haha
<ducasse> he deserves a ban soon :-/
<lotuspsychje> yeah its like that jackal movie
<lotuspsychje> keeps comming back with other personalitys
<ducasse> every single time he produces output he admits it's from mint, kali or whatever
<lotuspsychje> he will make a big mistake soon ducasse, we will grab him :p
<ducasse> lol
<ducasse> "one day you will go too far, and we will be there waiting..."
<lotuspsychje> and laughing
<lotuspsychje> ducasse: thats my life MOTD, positive revenge karma
<lotuspsychje> you cant keep fooling ppl, one day its your turn
<ducasse> true
<lotuspsychje> https://insights.ubuntu.com/2017/03/28/battlestar-solution/
<lotuspsychje> interesting...as IOT grows, ddos attacks will also
<nacc> absolutely true
<nacc> esp. once a vulnerability is found
<nacc> every networked fridge in america will become a massive botnet :)
<nacc> e.g. :)
<lotuspsychje> your vulnerable fridge or microwave
<lotuspsychje> yep
<nacc> and rolling out fixes will be ... tricky
<nacc> as the router is also IOTish
<nacc> and if it's also been hacked, you can fake the update
<lotuspsychje> r00ters love 24/7 things and will always hunt them
<lotuspsychje> so those ubuntu core mobo's better come fast everywhere
<nacc> heh
<lotuspsychje> Ingenic: good evening, welcome
<Ingenic> hello
<lotuspsychje> !grep
<ubot5> grep is a command-line tool that finds a string in a file or a stream. Grep can be recursive through directories and searches can be simple or complex. See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/grep
<lotuspsychje> triggers getting better and better
<lotuspsychje> anyone looking for the xp feeling? lol http://www.noobslab.com/2017/03/give-windows-xp-look-to-your-ubuntu.html
<nacc> lol
<lotuspsychje> nostalgic
<Ingenic> I try to forget that xp is still used in important places
<Ingenic> like banks
<lotuspsychje> brrr
<lotuspsychje> Ingenic: is there any windows thats safe in use?
<lotuspsychje> my early xenial testing: http://www.deviantart.com/art/Ubuntu-16-04-64bit-Development-branch-598369242
<lotuspsychje> http://www.deviantart.com/art/Ubuntu-16-04-64bit-Development-branch-601374206
<Ingenic> lotuspsychje: probably not, but there's definitely better than xp hahaha
<lotuspsychje> Ingenic: i think many countries still run windows ME, 98 and old server versions
<lotuspsychje> think china, taiwan,korea
<Ingenic> lotuspsychje: oh god, that can't be good
<lotuspsychje> http://www.deviantart.com/art/Ubuntu-16-04-64bit-Development-branch-568865930
<ducasse> lotuspsychje: why wouldn't they pirate later versions given that they don't exactly purchase licenses anyway?
<lotuspsychje> ducasse: indeed
<ducasse> hungry cat incoming, better serve dinner asap :)
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> bon apetit cat!
<lotuspsychje> nacc: speaking of the devil; new article in belgium hackers break in a IOT fridge, once their on the network they open the electric garage gate and steal it all
<lotuspsychje> spokesman warns: dont leave the default login:pass on your fridge lol
<nacc> lol
<ducasse> well, duh.
<lotuspsychje> we aint seen nothing yet guys
<lotuspsychje> ive been warning ppl not to use online banking on smartphones for like 5 years now
<lotuspsychje> now they come with online paying on smartphones just everywhere..
<lotuspsychje> push a button and you bought it...
<lotuspsychje> crazy world
<lotuspsychje> someone looses his android phone, the thief can pay stuff anywhere
<lotuspsychje> http://www.consortiuminfo.org/standardsblog/article.php?story=20170327154910861
<lotuspsychje> IoT articles showing up everywhere now lol
<pauljw> scary stuff
<lotuspsychje> certainly knowing alot of cheap IoT devices will get sold that are highly vulnerable on weak Oses
<pauljw> yep, to people that have no idea about the risks and how to implement network security.
<lotuspsychje> its a weird thought, burglers are now half-crackers lol..a cowbar and a laptop
<pauljw> heheh...
<lotuspsychje> howdy acheron-a & Wirehunter
<acheron-a> hello lotuspsychje
<Wirehunter> Hi, good evening
<lotuspsychje> hi yobagme
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: your the uefi wizard man!
<lotuspsychje> good to have you here :p
<acheron-a> the whole UEFI was an intel thing but then M$ for involved and forced BIOS makers to make changes for windows 8 and 8.1 and now there is complete irregular implementation of it because of that
<acheron-a> for involved = got involved
<lotuspsychje> i hope in the future more brands will choose barebones and leave the user the choice
<lotuspsychje> forcing users with a specific Os is so wrong
<acheron-a> even from the same MB maker just a difference in the model of MB, i can find variances in the implementation, some makers just gave up and caved to M$ and just left a legacy BIOS setting for everybody else
<EriC^^> lotuspsychje: :P
<acheron-a> and some don't even have that
<acheron-a> so this causing real problems for Linux installs
<acheron-a> especially on MB designed in the Win 8.1 era
<Ingenic> yeah, they're forcing Linux users onto older hardware
<lotuspsychje> alot of workarounds to install linux on machines :p
<acheron-a> the newer GigaByte are pretty good
<acheron-a> i wish people would publish a list or have a blog on what works and what doesn't and for what distro
<acheron-a> HP has a fairly clean UEFI since they are a big Red Hat and SuSe partner
<Ingenic> My Lenovo has been pretty accepting of most distros too
<lotuspsychje> laterz guys, takeover the support
<acheron-a> so are the newer Dells
#ubuntu-discuss 2017-03-29
<acheron-a> hello Bashing-om
<Bashing-om> Hey acheron-a // I miss anything exciting ?
<acheron-a> no, it has been very quiet here
<Bashing-om> acheron-a: :) .. Then I not feel to bad to be away helping others in other things .
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<acheron-a> hello lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> hey acheron-a
<acheron-a> its been very quiet here, FYI
<lotuspsychje> http://news.softpedia.com/news/mozilla-firefox-52-0-2-released-to-fix-crash-on-startup-on-linux-other-issues-514351.shtml
<lotuspsychje> acheron-a: tnx for the headsup
<lotuspsychje> lets bring up some users alive now :p
<lotuspsychje> Ozzy-roborn-USA: morning
<baizon> how can i make a bios update, when there is only a .exe file?
<acheron-a> its 12.38 am here .. good night all
<lotuspsychje> baizon: wich brand is that?
<Ozzy-roborn-USA> It's just before midnight here.
<baizon> lotuspsychje: https://www.asus.com/Graphics-Cards/DUAL-RX480-O4G/HelpDesk_Download/
<lotuspsychje> baizon: think thats supposed to run from windows only mate
<lotuspsychje> i dont think .exe can be set on usb an boot or cdrom..
<baizon> and thats really reallly stupid
<lotuspsychje> yeah i know
<lotuspsychje> baizon: perhaps the ##hardware guys might know a trick?
<lotuspsychje> not sure if wine would execute properly...
<lotuspsychje> baizon: http://askubuntu.com/questions/338763/how-to-update-the-bios-in-ubuntu
<lotuspsychje> freedos perhaps one time? maybe it can live?
<baizon> lotuspsychje: thx
<lotuspsychje> perhaps Ben64 or ducasse might know another trick
<EriC^^> morning lotuspsychje
<lordievader> Good morning
<EriC^^> morning lordievader
<ducasse> morning all
<lordievader> Hey EriC^^, ducasse. How are you guys?
<EriC^^> hey ducasse
<lotuspsychje> morning guys!
<ducasse> good, thanks - you?
<EriC^^> good thanks, what about you lordievader ?
<ducasse> baizon: sometimes .exe files are self-extracting zip archives that unzip will unpack.
<lordievader> EriC^^: Doing good here :)
<lordievader> ducasse:  ^
<lordievader> Hey lotuspsychje
<ducasse> one more thing, baizon - if it does need to run under windows and won't work on freedos, you can probably use the windows thingy that's on a few boot/utility-cds. i know at least hirens boot cd has it, at least the version i've got does.
<baizon> ok, thanks ducasse
<lotuspsychje> ducasse: handy to know!
<ducasse> lotuspsychje: yes, i use it for firmware updates now and then, it's a lot better than having to actually install windows :)
<lotuspsychje> indeed
<ducasse> lotuspsychje: work today, mate?
<lotuspsychje> 5 days off ducasse
<lotuspsychje> ducasse: and then next week 5 days work at easter holidays
<ducasse> ah, well. better than how it was when they needed you every single day i suppose.
<lotuspsychje> yeah things have been better for me like this
<lotuspsychje> but now the sun comes out, they will need me a lot more
<ducasse> springtime! \o/
<lotuspsychje> yayy
<lotuspsychje> 300 ppl on our terace lol
<ikevin> morning
<lordievader> o/
<lotuspsychje> bbl
<lotuspsychje> re
<lotuspsychje> howdy OerHeks & ikevin
<ikevin> hey lotuspsychje :)
<lotuspsychje> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2017/03/has-ubuntu-popularity-peaked
<lotuspsychje> what you guys think of this? ubuntu keeps stable or ubuntu needs new features every release?
<OerHeks> silly google stats...
<OerHeks> the label 'opinion' should at least take 3/4 page
<lotuspsychje> the comments are pretty fun to read :p
<OerHeks> joey = crazytux ? :-D
<lotuspsychje> android vs windodows vs linux
<lotuspsychje> hahaha
<ikevin> <lotuspsychje> what you guys think of this? ubuntu keeps stable or ubuntu needs new features every release? <== both, and i think ubuntu need more partners
<lotuspsychje> ikevin: alot of things are going on IoT & ubuntu partners already right
<lotuspsychje> but yeah a new phone partner would be nice :p
<ikevin> i think having big pc reseller as partner can be nice to
<lotuspsychje> yeah
<lotuspsychje> morning Wirehunter
<Wirehunter> good afternoon
<lotuspsychje> Wirehunter: hey there, all good?
<Wirehunter> lotuspsychje, Yes, just arrived at school to attend computergraphics :P
<lotuspsychje> Wirehunter: learning an IT grade?
<EriC^^> that's his cover, he's a spy
<lotuspsychje> lol
<Wirehunter> lotuspsychje, Yes. Computer Science at Rotterdam University of applied sciences :D
<lotuspsychje> oh, i think you can talk to lordievader then, think he also studyed IT in ntherlands
<Wirehunter> EriC^^, Haha, yes, I'm shuttleworth right?
<lotuspsychje> or snowden :p
<EriC^^> he hunts wires for a living
<EriC^^> the data is his prey
<lotuspsychje> lol
<Wirehunter> I do like to play around with Breadboards :)
<lotuspsychje> we discussed this yesterday internet of things getting exploited already
<lotuspsychje> by new style hacking-burglers hacking your unsecure network fridge, to open the garage gate
<lotuspsychje> http://r1ng1.deviantart.com/art/Kubuntu-17-04-Surface-Pro-3-659930569
<lotuspsychje> pretty neat on a surface pro
<lordievader> lotuspsychje, Wirehunter: Nope I have/am studying Electrical Engineering.
<blackflow> Hello. Trying to understand the implications of upcoming release of Mir. Will individual applications have to support it directly? What will happen if they don't? There has been talk about KDE not going to, Intel not supporting in their gfx driver, etc...   Not a flamebait, honest question, just trying to figure out how much of it all is just FUD and how much is real concern.
<brunch875> blackflow: in the phone you can launch X applications and it runs mir
<brunch875> so I expect the desktop to be a lot more polished
<blackflow> brunch875: via XMir?
<brunch875> I take it so
<brunch875> on the phone it isn't too straightforward since you need to set up libertine containers and run from there
<brunch875> but I'm sure it will be a lot more polished on the desktop
<brunch875> but this answers the "can't run non-mir applications" concern
<brunch875> it can
<brunch875> I suspect mir confinement is going to be done with snaps
<brunch875> and snap works surprisingly well. I am, in fact, running a snapped hexchat
<blackflow> a bit of false sense of security as long as X is involved
<brunch875> blackflow: on the phone, X applications are confined in a libertine container
<brunch875> so it should be secure
<blackflow> I doubt that. X would have to be changed inside out to provide isolation required, which is great part of why wayland and mir were concieved.
<brunch875> yeah, I believe it to be xmir and not x
<brunch875> it looks like the whole infraestructure is built around isolation and message passing. Applications woud just 'not see' each other if not meant to
<blackflow> hmm, I'll have to dig deeper into XMir and see what exactly is being done there, is it just API/ABI compatibility layer, or actual X (with all its problems) runnign in some context of Mir
<brunch875> but that's the general idea I have, I don't develop mir myself
<brunch875> I'm pretty sure it's an API/ABI
<blackflow> but the bottom line is, there's no apocalypse, if apps won't use Mir directly, they'll just default to X(Mir), right?
<brunch875> Yes, and this works already
<blackflow> Neat.
<BluesKaj> Hi folks
<brunch875> Heya BluesKaj, have a good day
<BluesKaj> hibr yes,fine here, and you?
<BluesKaj> brunch875,^
<BluesKaj> scuse my typos , it's still early :-)
<brunch875> BluesKaj: fine day; not a single cloud. http://imgur.com/a/DT122
<BluesKaj> brunch875, nice
<BluesKaj> we have a few clouds , the forecast is for mostly clear skies here and milder temps, finally
<BluesKaj> brunch875, ahh Madrid, I hear it's a really nice city. My sister studied Spanish at the university there.
<BluesKaj> but that was long ago. Franco was still in power then.
<brunch875> ah, me being a youngling didn't get to see it
<brunch875> madrid right now is... noisy with a lot of cars. But still pretty pretty.
<BluesKaj> yes, I've seen on various travrl shoes on tv, like Lonely Planet
<BluesKaj> shows even
<lotuspsychje> afternoon to all
<BluesKaj> hey lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> hey BluesKaj
<lotuspsychje>  HexChat: 2.10.2 ** OS: Linux 4.4.0-70-generic x86_64 ** Distro: Ubuntu "xenial" 16.04 ** CPU: 1 x AMD Athlon(tm) 64 Processor 3200+ (AuthenticAMD) @ 2,04GHz ** RAM: Physical: 2,0GiB, 40,0% free ** Disk: Total: 109,8GiB, 88,0% free ** VGA: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD/ATI] R420 [Radeon X800 PRO/GTO AGP] ** Sound: VIA8237 - VIA 8237 ** Ethernet: 3Com Corporation 3c940 10/100/1000Base-T
<lotuspsychje> [Marvell] ** Uptime: 45m 11s **
<lotuspsychje> my old desktop :p
<ikevin> my current desktop look like that :x
<lotuspsychje> flying faster then an i5
<lotuspsychje> (on windows) lol
<lotuspsychje> too bad hexchat doesnt spam hd brand
<lotuspsychje> samsung 850 pro ssd makes the big difference speedwise
<lotuspsychje> bbl
<ikevin> see you
<lotuspsychje> hi nacc
<nacc> lotuspsychje: morning
<lotuspsychje> oO
<lotuspsychje> im adding upgrades to my webshop :p http://www.lotuscomputers.be/
<daftykins> \o/
<daftykins> hey lotus hope all is well \o
<lotuspsychje> hey daftykins
<lotuspsychje> how r u mate?
<ducasse> pizza! \o/
<lotuspsychje> bon apetit ducasse
<EriC^^> heya daftykins
<EriC^^> wb lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> tnx EriC^^ :p
<daftykins> \o
<daftykins> lotuspsychje: good thanks, but long day :)
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: to answer your last barebone question: ive sended mail to entroware, but they never replied me back..think im a too small fish for them...so for now ill stick to an .nl clevo reseller
<daftykins> :<
<daftykins> that's frustrating
<lotuspsychje> yeah cant find any other decent barebones of my wish
<lotuspsychje> entroware was promising
<EriC^^> dang
<ducasse> lotuspsychje: odd that they didn't even respond, though.
<lotuspsychje> perhaps i should resend
<lotuspsychje> i like the fact that their already ubuntu minded
<daftykins> Louis on youtube was saying that to become a certified Lenovo guy to sell Lenovo machines and work on their laptops for repair, he'd have to sell 20,000 USD per month of their gear - which means you would have to start lying and not repairing machines to reach your quota
<lotuspsychje> https://www.entroware.com/store/laptops/triton
<lotuspsychje> check their configurator
<ducasse> lotuspsychje: maybe worth a shot, i would at least expect a "sorry, but..." mail back
<lotuspsychje> yeah i dont wanna be depended from quotas and resellers
<lotuspsychje> ill find my own way
<lotuspsychje> entroware config is nice, but would have been nicer with NO HD option and keyboard dutch
<lotuspsychje> no ram would also be nice
<EriC^^> i got an approval for getting a dog
<EriC^^> my plan with getting the fish first worked
<ducasse> what's next, a dolphin? ;)
<EriC^^> lol
<daftykins> now now, EriC^^ can't home Celine Dion
<EriC^^> i ordered a 120liter tank for the fishes and got them some stuff from a local pet store, the guy hasn't called yet to tell me the price though
<lotuspsychje> oO
<EriC^^> i'm spoiling the heck out of them, i feed them like 4-6 times a day, the red calm one got bigger, but the other black active one is still the same size
<ducasse> EriC^^: what kind of dog will you get?
<EriC^^> he's like a dog, if i put my finger next to the water he'll swim up quickly to the surface and open his mouth and close it
<EriC^^> ducasse: i was thinking a samoyed, i kind of like the way they look and that they're friendly
<EriC^^> i've been reading a shit ton about puppies and dog care lately
<EriC^^> kind of worried about training him and stuff, they're known to be a little difficult and stuff, plus i kind of worry if he'll somehow snap and bite a chunk off my face or something
<ducasse> EriC^^: i've wanted a staffordshire bullterrier for years and years, but i doubt my cat would be very happy about it. they're brilliant dogs, though.
<EriC^^> like one day he's like i wonder what this human's face tastes like and he takes a bite
<daftykins> https://i.imgur.com/fJhagxL.mp4 - important
<EriC^^> also the mouthing and bite inhibition seems to suck
 * lotuspsychje also likes dogs..But not in bed
<ducasse> daftykins: :D
<EriC^^> i have to let it literally bite me as hard as it can, and then scream in pain a little and get up and go away for like 20secs so it learns not to bite so hard, etc til it's like 6months old
<EriC^^> lol daftykins
<EriC^^> i probably wont get the dog though, it's a lot of work
<daftykins> yeah could tie you down a bit :S
<daftykins> EriC^^: did you manage to stop your gran from overfeeding the fish?
<EriC^^> i'd have to take him out for exercising everyday somewhere, and he probably wont sit in the balcony alone and i dont want to keep him in the living room alone with my grandma
<EriC^^> daftykins: yeah, sort of, few days ago there was a piece of toast there, i asked her about it, she said, i was eating and it just fell in
<EriC^^> lol
<EriC^^> who knows
<EriC^^> the fish kind of piss me off at times, when they have food, they won't give a damn at all
<ducasse> "so now the only thing they'll eat is white toast with marmalade" ;)
<EriC^^> if there's no food, he'll like jump up to the surface and stuff, if there's food they're like meh
<EriC^^> ducasse: lol :D and they shit rainbows
<lotuspsychje> a 120 liter tank is like big enough for koi's?
<EriC^^> lotuspsychje: i read that like each fish needs 50liters
<EriC^^> i got it really according to the space, plus i wanted 100liters+
<daftykins> damn toast just wants the water, maaaan </Gran>
<EriC^^> they grow as big as the space you give them naturally, if it's a small space they stay tiny
<EriC^^> the guy at the pet shop was hilarious, he didn't have a clue about anything at all
<EriC^^> they had a 60liter one at most, and he was like 'take this one, how many fish do you want? it can have 120fish easily'
<daftykins> Japanese commuter train mode
<daftykins> >_<
<EriC^^> then some fish was literally floating on its side dead and half the tail was rotted away, i was like, 'there's a dead fish in there'
<daftykins> :S
<EriC^^> he was like 'oh the other goldfish killed here, see, if you get a fish from one shop and another fish from another shop, the owners do something to them, so they attack the other fish and eat them'
<ducasse> lol
<ducasse> pet shop warfare!
<EriC^^> anyways i think he's not going to call about the custom tank, it's been like 2 days
<EriC^^> there's a local glass cutter shop though so i can just give him the glass specs and silicon it together at home, should be easy
<EriC^^> he had the cutest puppy though in a cage there
<ducasse> poor puppy :(
<EriC^^> he looked like a mixed breed mutt kind of dog, black, medium sized, with some white and he was like begging at times wit his paws at the cage
<EriC^^> and the owner was like shutting him up and stuff
<EriC^^> initially i wanted to get that pup, my initial argument to my grandma was we'd get him, and ask the guy if we could bring him back without a refund if it didnt work out
<EriC^^> then i figured he was already too big, maybe 9months or so, plus he's been caged all the time so he wouldn't be socialized properly with other dogs and people and stuff so a 2month old would be better
<lotuspsychje> wich category should i put windows/mac restore to factory defaults? in data backup or upgrades?
<EriC^^> it's very sad though how he's locked up
<daftykins> lotuspsychje: i'd have thought you'd call it 'crimes' ;D
<lotuspsychje> hahaha
<ducasse> lotuspsychje: for windows that's clearly an upgrade
<lotuspsychje> daftykins: in worst case scenarios i will also do those :p
<lotuspsychje> ok ill add to upgrades then
<ducasse> lotuspsychje: i was just joking, actually, but whatever :)
<daftykins> ;D
<ducasse> lotuspsychje: you don't have 'other'?
<daftykins> backup/recovery perhaps
<lotuspsychje> ducasse: yeah i know, but dont wanna make a new category
<ducasse> right.
<lotuspsychje> got 8 main categorys already
<lotuspsychje> they all fit on /home
<EriC^^> lotuspsychje: maybe something like restoration or resetting or refreshing pc or something
<EriC^^> ?
<EriC^^> hmm what's this for?
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: restoring mac & windows back to defaults
<EriC^^> +1 recovery
<EriC^^> for the shop?
<lotuspsychje> yes
<lotuspsychje> data backup then?
<ducasse> lotuspsychje: can't you call 'backup' 'backup/recover'?
<ducasse> or smth.
<lotuspsychje> yeah ill ask my admin to do so, good idea
<lotuspsychje> data backup & recovery
<lotuspsychje> ducasse: whats your bank accnt number :p
<ducasse> :)
<ducasse> lotuspsychje: just noticed, i looked at the security advice thingy, when i run that through google translate it says "U get advice..." etc - is that actually ok in the original and just a bad translation?
<ducasse> "You will get advice on how to work safely with the Internet and become a victim of social engineering hackers"
<ducasse> missed a 'not'? ;)
<lotuspsychje> ducasse: lemme check holdon
<lotuspsychje> ducasse: yeah think its a bas translate: en geen slachtoffer te worden van social engineering en hackers.
<lotuspsychje> geen= not
<ducasse> good :)
<lotuspsychje> ducasse: found a nice site for copywright free pics now aswell :p
<lotuspsychje> pixabay.com
<ducasse> cool, did they have anything you needed?
<lotuspsychje> ducasse: all the pics in my categorys come from there
<lotuspsychje> also the ubuntu one
<lotuspsychje> now looking for a cool recovery pic
<ducasse> one question: on the main page, should there not be some text under the icons or a mouseover or something?
<lotuspsychje> ducasse: tried to keep it simple, but perhaps yeah it could be more handy
<ducasse> it looks good without, but it's not very ui-friendly imo. i'm no designer, though.
<lotuspsychje> ducasse: my admin proposed first with text, but it was all a bit too much with pink etc
<lotuspsychje> ducasse: also once you click on 1 category, the user gets the categorys left
<ducasse> true, you should probably get some opinions on what is best.
<lotuspsychje> ducasse: i like feedback, tnx
<lotuspsychje> things are all new, still in motion :p
<ducasse> lot of work to set up a new business :)
<lotuspsychje> ducasse: yeah the paperwork got me 8 months already
<lotuspsychje> arranged a lot of legal stuff
<lotuspsychje> cwtqty: welcome
<Wirehunter> good evening
<daftykins> hey \o how goes?
<Wirehunter> fine, how about you?
<daftykins> long day but finally home, just fed and ready for sleep... at 8:30pm XD
<Wirehunter> You're from Britain?
<daftykins> Channel Islands
<lotuspsychje> ducasse: how you like this for data recovery? https://pixabay.com/en/internet-content-portal-search-315132/
<lotuspsychje> aka reformatting to defaults
<daftykins> "can you stop my windows flying off the screen?"
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> i wanna avoid cdroms & brands on the pics also
<daftykins> how will you trial AOL?
<ducasse> i don't really have an opinion, other than that it doesn't scream "recovery" to me...
<lotuspsychje> ducasse: ok Back to search then :p
<lotuspsychje> not easy to find a decent 'happy recovery pc' pic
<ducasse> lotuspsychje: i tried looking at some others too, but it wasn't easy...
<ducasse> i better get ready for sleepytime soon, 14 hours is enough for one day
<lotuspsychje> kk mate
<lotuspsychje> soon you will be able to count the IIIOOOOIIIIOOIOIOIIIIOI
<lotuspsychje> instead of sheep
<daftykins> i choose to read that as yodelling
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> https://pixabay.com/en/computer-disk-handsomely-1907133/
<lotuspsychje> cool but not really reinstalling an Os
<daftykins> no OS is going back on there ;D
<lotuspsychje> hahaha
<lotuspsychje> daftykins: found many floppy pics also heh
<daftykins> http://ajonas.herokuapp.com/images/aoldisk.jpg
<daftykins> \o/
<daftykins> i still have a drive over in the corner if you want one :)
<lotuspsychje> wahaha
<lotuspsychje> wow, look what i found!
<lotuspsychje> https://cdn.pixabay.com/photo/2014/06/30/04/00/mouse-379978_960_720.jpg
<ducasse> dear gods, "i've saved a script from the web, what do i do now?"
<ducasse> that can't go wrong.
<lotuspsychje> lol
<ducasse> oh, from the arch wiki - should be ok :)
<lotuspsychje> haha
<lotuspsychje> try some random scripts from darkweb
<daftykins> skynet.sh
<ducasse> ask random people on irc to send you their favorites ;)
<lotuspsychje> lol
<daftykins> i liked the CD rewind script i got linked to the other day
<ducasse> i'm useless by now, going to get some sleep. ttyl!
<lotuspsychje> laterz ducasse
<daftykins> nn \o
<lotuspsychje> nite nite guys
<Bashing-om> OK. I am here procrastinating on doing what I want to do, rather than what I should be doing :)
<daftykins> :D that's the spirit
<daftykins> new fridge tomorrow \o/ but bed for now
<daftykins> g'night \o changing of the guard
<Bashing-om> sleep tight ! daftykins
<daftykins> ty :>
#ubuntu-discuss 2017-03-30
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<baizon> hi lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> hey baizon, did you manage to update bios?
<baizon> lotuspsychje: nope
<lotuspsychje> wow, 107mb ubuntu base update
<baizon> again?
<baizon> again kernel
<lotuspsychje> .71 kernel
<lotuspsychje> lets read the ubuntu news :p
<lotuspsychje> http://news.softpedia.com/news/new-ubuntu-kernel-update-patches-a-single-vulnerability-affecting-all-versions-514401.shtml
<lotuspsychje> this is why baizon :p
<baizon> yeah, i heard about that a day ago
<lotuspsychje> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2017/03/reset-ubuntu-desktop-default-settings
<baizon> havent done that since 14.10 :D
<lotuspsychje> hehe
<lordievader> Good morning.
<lotuspsychje> hey lordievader how are you?
<lordievader> Doing good here, how are you?
<lotuspsychje> great here tnx
<lordievader> lotuspsychje: What is #lotuscomputers?
<ducasse> morning all
<ducasse> lordievader: it's lotus' new business venture
<lotuspsychje> lordievader: feel free to join
<lotuspsychje> !info linux-image-generic xenial
<ubot5> linux-image-generic (source: linux-meta): Generic Linux kernel image. In component main, is optional. Version 4.4.0.71.77 (xenial), package size 2 kB, installed size 13 kB
<lotuspsychje> botsync is pretty fast these days
<lotuspsychje> morning ikevin
<ikevin> hi lotuspsychje
<ikevin> how are you today?
<lotuspsychje> great man, how about you ikevin
<ikevin> all good here :)
<lotuspsychje> ikevin: ready for rocknroll support :p
<ikevin> lol, always :p
<pauljw> Hi everyone
<OerHeks> hi Paul
<pauljw> OerHeks
<ducasse> hi pauljw, OerHeks
<pauljw> hi ducasse
<OerHeks> "31 march: World Backup Day"  .. really?
<acheron-a> reminds me, i need to do one this morning
<OerHeks> sure it can wait another day ..
<OerHeks> 1 april :-D
<acheron-a> all done
<andreschandiaf> First time on this kind of interface..
<andreschandiaf> I need to do a social question to ubuntu(ers)
<andreschandiaf> Any body there?
<nacc> andreschandiaf: yes, but no one is obligated to respond
<acheron-a> whats that?
<lotuspsychje> good afternoon to all
<acheron-a> hello lotuspsychje
<andreschandiaf> Ok, thanks, there it goes
<lotuspsychje> hey there acheron-a
<andreschandiaf> I'm a happy Ubuntu user since  2006, and I'm engaged in some way with a social project of bringing opportunities and development for a small indigenous community of the south of Chile, the mapuche.
<andreschandiaf> A group of them tells me they have an offering from (sorry I have to write this word even though I don't want) Microsoft.
<lotuspsychje> andreschandiaf: nice to hear
<lotuspsychje> andreschandiaf: a bit like munich .gov germany
<andreschandiaf> They are offering to form teenagers, make them digitally capable for them to have better opportunities at work-related level, with some kind of certification, but this will attach them to Microsoft for the rest of their lives... I can ask for more details if necessary.
<andreschandiaf> Well, the thing is, is there any similar project from Ubuntu that does similar things, and in this way give freedom to people instead of condemn them to Microsoft.
<pauljw> hey lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> hey pauljw
<OerHeks> andreschandiaf, there is a history ubuntu+microsoft, also oracle, also ibm and more .. https://insights.ubuntu.com/tag/microsoft
<andreschandiaf> what I can find there?
<lotuspsychje> check your invite nacc, OerHeks pauljw
<OerHeks> lots of articles about ms & u, i think bug 1 is no longer valid
<ubot5> bug 1 in Ubuntu Malaysia LoCo Team "Microsoft has a majority market share" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1
<andreschandiaf> Oh, you mean similar projects to what I'm looking for?
<OerHeks> ehm, no, i just point at this, because you feel like not trusting microsoft, if they offer an internship or schooling, that is not bad.
<andreschandiaf> Yeah, I know, the bad thing is  attach them forever to Microsoft, give them no alternative insight
<OerHeks> That could not be true, not working with opensource software ..
<DArqueBishop> "Attach them forever to Microsoft"?
<DArqueBishop> Yeah, no.
<andreschandiaf> Well, at least is what I've been informed from this community, the schools where they would be trained would have to buy licences for 5 years.....
<andreschandiaf> I have exageratet, but anyway, 5 years
<DArqueBishop> I know it's cool and hip to hate Microsoft, but the reality is that they're here, have a significant dominance of several markets, and are not going to go away anytime soon.
<nacc> and you can use 'bash' in it
<nacc> tbh, compared to what i remember at a Bill Gates talk 20 years ago, they are significantly more amenable to OSS than they used to be
<andreschandiaf> Ok, so no alternative?
<acheron-a> probably not something we can answer
<acheron-a> more like a question for Canonical management
<andreschandiaf> How do I readch Canonical management?
<acheron-a> i'd check the main website
<andreschandiaf> Ok, thanks, off I go..
<acheron-a> good luck with it
<daftykins> that guy felt wrong even typing 'Microsoft'... what an absolute idiot
<nacc> some people feel stronger about it than others -- idealism vs. realism?
<acheron-a> oh, well
<ducasse> daftykins: i think that was just to show he had what he thought was an appropriate amount of hate for them.
<acheron-a> i'm really liking unity once i used it for a while
<daftykins> well anyone taking that approach just looks like a child
<ducasse> i agree, i just think it is common to assume that all linux users loathe ms.
<daftykins> just shows they couldn't drive it to me ;D
<acheron-a> the push to kill win7 and making the update process so cumbersome brought me to try linux.  i was was on Mint for about 9 months but they do some odd stuff with the Cinn DE since 17.3 and decided to come back to Ubuntu
<acheron-a> mostly issues with sound in mint, just on their Cinn DE, too, all the KDE and the others were fine
<daftykins> wise move, there's no good reason to go near Mint
<acheron-a> then i started looking at the dconf settings, oh what a mess in there
<daftykins> not sure what you mean on the update front though, there *were* big delays on checking and installing for new installations, but those are easily resolved once you have specific updates on first (Windows 7 and 8 that is)
<acheron-a> i think they lost focus when the decided to start writing their on x-apps and there is nothing wrong with e-vice, gedit and totem
<acheron-a> "there's no good reason to go near Mint", why do you say that daftykins?
<ducasse> because there aren't any, and mint introduces problems of its own?
<daftykins> because everything they did different is available directly on ubuntu, without using their modified repos which hold back security updates and cause problems all the time
<acheron-a> its pretty tempting for a new linux user but i agree from my personal experience
<daftykins> it is a *JUNK* distro
<acheron-a> every time you bring up an issue, its always the users fault or their hardware
<daftykins> acheron-a: me specifically? yes because i gave over 10 years of support in #ubuntu
<daftykins> and Mint is a joke which creates problems.
<daftykins> especially as they couldn't get help from Mint channels so would pretend to be running ubuntu...
<daftykins> i might have misunderstood what you just said though
<acheron-a> well i am done with it after struggling with sound issues and the latest grub2 install failure, i never get those issues on any other popular distro and DE
<daftykins> were you trying to say that i personally only ever classify Linux problems as the person or their system? :D
<acheron-a> they said to unplug the lan to fix that, why don't they fix the installer?
<daftykins> haha yeah that's pretty bad
<acheron-a> its busy in the background trying to put in place the new grub2 release and so it fails
<acheron-a> there was a new grub2 release recently
<daftykins> ah well you don't seem to be responding directly so i give up
<acheron-a> i'm good
<daftykins> is there any reason why? you make some stupid comment about my assistance and then refuse to back it up?
<daftykins> plus you're new.
<acheron-a> i never made any comment about your support, i was talking about Clem
<daftykins> about what?
<daftykins> < acheron-a> every time you bring up an issue, its always the users fault or their hardware <--- this one?
<daftykins> is there someone in here talking that i've got on ignore or something... i only see us
<acheron-a> every time you bring up an issue, its always the users fault or their hardware <-- yes, i was talking about the Mint Dev team
<daftykins> oooooh as in when you raise an issue with them, i'm sorry i misunderstood
<acheron-a> but its a junk disto
<OerHeks> mate seems to be populair
<EriC^^> if mint is a junk distro, what is kali then? :D
<OerHeks> but now it is in our repos too, no need to install mint.
<OerHeks> kali is a backdoor to hackers
<acheron-a> just for example, there is an error in the cs_sound.py file for  18.0 Cinn DE, but i would have to wait until after the first big update to copy the corrected cs_sound.py file into /usr/share/cinnamon/cinnamon-settings/modules/ because the first would overwite it with the bad one!
<acheron-a> https://forums.linuxmint.com/viewtopic.php?p=1237676#p1237676
<acheron-a> thats just ONE instance
<acheron-a> why couldn't they put the corrected one in the update?  insane
<acheron-a> and over it
<OerHeks> why would they read their own forum?
<acheron-a> because Mint is perfect
<acheron-a> if there is something wrong, its all on 'you'
<daftykins> EriC^^: i can't even remember of Kali is back on a debian base now or still on ubuntu
<daftykins> *remember if
<daftykins> all those wannabe hackers... ;D
<pauljw_AOD257> heheh...
<daftykins> acheron-a: well there are ways around that with APT, but i don't see why they didn't just update the package
<acheron-a> i see Debian missed its release date
<pauljw_AOD257> is it better to on time, or to be ready?
<daftykins> indeed, fixed first
<acheron-a> i'd rather have it good than on time
<pauljw_AOD257> yep
<acheron-a> troubleshooting bugs wastes a lot of time
 * daftykins chuckles at the 847MB firmware download for his clients LG OLED TV
<pauljw_AOD257> :)
<acheron-a> those tvs sure look nice
<daftykins> mm the B6 is amazing, got it over here in tax-free land for Â£2,400 back in December
<EriC^^> man i want an oled
<nicomachus> I want amoled
<EriC^^> what's that?
<nicomachus> they have some really cool android apps that work with amoled and can turn off a percentage of the pixels on the screen to save battery
<nicomachus> basically only Samsung phones. They do real true black, though, because they actually turn off a pixel to render black
<EriC^^> aha
<daftykins> the Nexus 4 of mine was AMOLED, rubbish in the sun
<nicomachus> daftykins: really? I thought Samsung was the only one making them
<daftykins> samsung like to hold that rep but nope, years old kit
<daftykins> the Nexus 4 was made by LG back years ago :>
<nicomachus> too bad LG didn't use it in my Nexus 5x
<EriC^^> i think my phone is also amoled come to think of it
<EriC^^> it's a very cheap samsung j-ace something the cheapest version
<EriC^^> it is very rubbishy in the sun, can't see much, also when the battery gets to like 5% or so it becomes almost useless
<daftykins> hehe
<daftykins> sounds about right
<EriC^^> the camera on this sucker is impressive though, i got to admit
<EriC^^> ducasse you wanna work on that ppa-purge addition thing?
<ducasse> EriC^^: too late for me, i'm afraid, i'm just finishing up on a few things before heading to bed. ask me a bit earlier tomorrow, i'm pretty useless in the evening :)
<EriC^^> no worries :)
<daftykins> that about getting ppa-purge into the default repos or something?
<ducasse> improving it to work on non-launchpad ppas etc
<daftykins> oic
<ducasse> is it troll hour again already? :)
<nicomachus> ducasse: guess so
<daftykins> does it ever end?
<ducasse> no, they just go away for long enough to regroup.
<daftykins> ;)
<daftykins> ducasse: just removed the majority of the spare Mischief from my top bed sheet :P
<daftykins> good fistful of fur
<ducasse> i found out the other day that luna has a secret nest on top of some sweaters in a closet, i swear there was enough of her there to knit a new one.
<ducasse> (a new sweater that is, knitting a cat would be more involved)
<daftykins> XD
<OerHeks> 	wildpenguin a.k.a. now known as CrazyTux
<daftykins> o0
<daftykins> that nick rings a bell
<nicomachus> I've seen CrazyTux
<daftykins> and lived? well that's a good sign
<nicomachus> I mean, I kinda lived.
<OerHeks> my crazy tux .. https://www.dropbox.com/s/71wm136pidiq3f1/2016-tux-wood.JPG?dl=0
<OerHeks> nicknaam woody
<pauljw> nice OerHeks, did you carve him?
<OerHeks> No, found it at a fleemarket somewhere, could not resist taking him home
<OerHeks> or her
<pauljw> :)
<pauljw> just following the rules of the english language...
<nicomachus> english has RULES?!
<OerHeks> int. english?
<OerHeks> caveman-english?
<OerHeks> cartoonnetwork-english?
<pauljw> heheh... yep, it does.  so does science, but the PC crowd ignores them, too.
<Bashing-om> Water restored to the house - That Is a Good Thing
<daftykins> \o/
<daftykins> where'd it go!?
<daftykins> Bashing-om: also wb :D
<Bashing-om> Oh daftykins The water was there, just not making it to here :) - Replaced the pressure switch at the well head . ( still to do is replace the water line permanently from the well to the house ) // And glad to be back on IRC - bout time !
<daftykins> ah har
 * acheron-a xD *
#ubuntu-discuss 2017-03-31
<acheron-a> a new version of FF 52.0.2
<Bashing-om> And that's all for me folks . laters .
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<lotuspsychje> new firefox in updates
<lotuspsychje> !info firefox xenial
<ubot5> firefox (source: firefox): Safe and easy web browser from Mozilla. In component main, is optional. Version 52.0.2+build1-0ubuntu0.16.04.1 (xenial), package size 47534 kB, installed size 113326 kB
<baizon> hi lotuspsychje
<baizon> well then lets update firefox :)
<lotuspsychje> hey there baizon
<Ben64> !info firefox trusty
<ubot5> firefox (source: firefox): Safe and easy web browser from Mozilla. In component main, is optional. Version 52.0.2+build1-0ubuntu0.14.04.1 (trusty), package size 45132 kB, installed size 104322 kB
<lordievader> Good morning.
<lotuspsychje> good morning lordievader
<ducasse> morning all
<lordievader> Hey lotuspsychje, ducasse
<lotuspsychje> morning ducasse
<lotuspsychje> have a nice coffee
<lordievader> Same here :D
<ducasse> something odd happened over night, my laptop lost the dhcp ipv4 lease and didn't negotiate a new one - ipv6 was fine, though.
<lotuspsychje> hmm
<ducasse> i blame network manager :)
<lotuspsychje> yeah sounds like a reboot
<ducasse> reboot? i just ran dhclient and all was fine.
<lotuspsychje> cool
<ducasse> still odd. i'll write it down as one of those things that just happensâ¢
<lotuspsychje> ducasse: you got a tail running all night?
<ducasse> no, why?
<lotuspsychje> check logs to see you lost ipv4?
<ducasse> i do have several ssh sessions running, though, and those got disconnected
<lotuspsychje> ah right
<lordievader> Two days ago I got the wrong ipv6 address, privacy extensions was disabled, but I didn't get the address I expected.
<lordievader> Fixed it by setting a fixed address.
<ducasse> i get a dynamic prefix. been hassling them to give me a static one, but they keep saying no.
<lordievader> Which remind me. I should still ask around for a real ipv6 prefix.
<ducasse> don't know if my router can hand out a fixed address within whatever prefix it gets
<ducasse> you could use a tunnel provider?
<lordievader> ducasse: I've heard that the university just gives them if you ask for them in the right place ;)
<ducasse> lordievader: how are you connected? you live at uni?
<lordievader> Indeed, I live at the campus.
<lotuspsychje> network-manager didnt do very well from 16.04...
<lordievader> I already have a (public) ipv6 address, however, I'd like to give the vm's I run an ipv6 address too.
<ducasse> right. i get a /60 (i think), so i'm not going to run out in the immediate future ;)
<EriC^^> is it true that hand-reared cat that didnt spend time in a litter box with their mother and siblings can lach out suddenly and visciously as adults?
<ducasse> i've never heard that, kind of doubt it.
<BluesKaj> Hiyas all
<lotuspsychje> good afternoon to all
<lordievader> o/
<lordievader> I've just discovered I can get google assistant to speak via bluetooth on my headphones :D
<lotuspsychje> nice lordievader
<lordievader> Yeah, totally forgot I had once set it up XD
<lotuspsychje> my gf's brother has a smartphone with speech to sms
<lotuspsychje> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2017/03/telegram-voice-calls-coming-desktop-linux-app
<lordievader> Installed an app so I get notifications spoken to me :)
<lotuspsychje> handy once you get blind
<lotuspsychje> https://insights.ubuntu.com/2016/09/28/learning-to-snap-with-codelabs?/%3Futm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=Post&utm_content=codelabs&utm_campaign=Device-fy17-iot-content-technical&utm_source=twitter
<lotuspsychje> interesting
<lotuspsychje> hi DaGoaty
<lotuspsychje> hey there acheron-a
<acheron-a> hello lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> oh no, wildpenguin is in the house
<OerHeks> i keep naming him crazytux
<lotuspsychje> lol
<pauljw> Hi everyone
<OerHeks> Hi Paul
<OerHeks> today i noticed a huge green wave on the trees, spring is breaking through
<pauljw> hey OerHeks, so true, I mowed yesterday for the first time this year.
<lotuspsychje> hey there brunch875
<brunch875> gn'evening lotuspsychje!
<lotuspsychje> brunch875: snap find codelabs something for you?
<brunch875> lotuspsychje: 2 entries: snap-codelabs and claat
<lotuspsychje> brunch875: snap-codelabs is that new tutorial creating/using snaps
<lotuspsychje> https://insights.ubuntu.com/2016/09/28/learning-to-snap-with-codelabs?/%3Futm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=Post&utm_content=codelabs&utm_campaign=Device-fy17-iot-content-technical&utm_source=twitter
<brunch875> niiiise
<lotuspsychje> nacc: wildpenguin is our fav troll aka crazytux right
<nacc> lotuspsychje: ack :)
<acheron-a> what channel is he in?
<lotuspsychje> #ubuntu
<lotuspsychje> http://www.csoonline.com/article/3186421/security/open-source-developers-targeted-in-sophisticated-malware-attack.html
<lotuspsychje> beware of the github hackers :p
<nacc> uh ... for windows lusers
<nacc> "Word documents" "PowerShell"
<nacc> such garbage
<lotuspsychje> lol
 * nacc regrets even reading that article :)
<nacc> had to click through an ad even!
<brunch875> come on you guys everyone knows opensource is developed in windows
<brunch875> ...right?
<brunch875> ...you guys?
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> yeah sure, windows lovessss linux!
<brunch875> markdown? restructured text? .docx is the way to write documentation!
<OerHeks> sure .docx without flash and java is boring
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> bbl guys
<OerHeks> http://fullcirclemagazine.org/issue-119/
#ubuntu-discuss 2017-04-01
<acheron-b> good evening everyone
<daftykins> heya \o was just about to head to bed myself
<acheron-b> okies
<acheron-b> have a good one
<daftykins> and you :>
<lordievader> Good morning
<OerHeks> omg .. https://fossbytes.com/microsoft-buys-canonical-kills-ubuntu-linux-forever/
<ducasse> it's april first today
<OerHeks> ohh
<OerHeks> so, i don't get a free microsoft membership in exchange?
<ducasse> lol
<BluesKaj> HI folks
<pauljw> Hi everyone
<BluesKaj> 'Morning pauljw
<pauljw> hey BluesKaj, how's it going?
<BluesKaj> fine here pauljw, and you?
<pauljw> good thanks.
<ducasse> hi BluesKaj, how's the weather?
<BluesKaj> Hey ducasse, it's nice, sunny and warming up today, should be about 15C  later
<OerHeks> april fools prank ..??  https://kodi.tv/
<ducasse> http://kodixbmc.net/2017/04/01/kodi-domain-seized-by-homeland-security/
<OerHeks> "we are looking into it .." http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/uk-news/kodi-tv-website-been-seized-12831077
<OerHeks> :-D
<OerHeks> to get your files back, buy the password for 1 bitcoin or typ 1april
<ducasse> i'm just not reading news today, too many pranks :)
<BluesKaj> what could be different today than any other day? With all the fake news out there everyday is April fool's
<OerHeks> BluesKaj, you mean no different type of questions in #u ?
<ducasse> BluesKaj: you're right about that. between trump trolls and the russians news are a minefield.
<BluesKaj> ducasse, and all the illness cures being promo'd , one "formaul" fits all :-)
<BluesKaj> formula even
<ducasse> homeopathy and scientology ftw! ;)
#ubuntu-discuss 2017-04-02
<Bashing-om> Beddy bye time for me - g nite
<BluesKaj> Hiyas all
#ubuntu-discuss 2018-03-26
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<lordievader> Good morning
<lotuspsychje> hey lordievader EriC^
<lordievader> Hey lotuspsychje
<lordievader> How are you doing?
<ducasse> good morning, everyone
<lotuspsychje> hey ducasse
<lotuspsychje> im fine guys, last week before holidays
<ducasse> hi lotuspsychje
<lordievader> Hey ducasse
<lordievader> Nice lotuspsychje
<ducasse> hi lordievader - all well?
<lordievader> Doing good here, how are you?
<ducasse> i'm fine, thanks - just beginning to wake up :)
<lotuspsychje> coffee & tea for all
<ducasse> just a couple days more work, lotuspsychje? :)
<lotuspsychje> yeah ducasse finally
<lotuspsychje> then 17 days off
<ducasse> oh, wow - that sounds nice. any plans?
<lotuspsychje> yeah all kinds of stuff
<lotuspsychje> but all go with the flow
<lotuspsychje> nothing palnned fixxed yet
<EriC^^> hey lotuspsychje
<ducasse> morning, EriC^^
<EriC^^> morning ducasse , how are you?
<ducasse> i'm good thanks, how are you?
<EriC^^> good thanks
<lotuspsychje> bbl work
<BluesKaj> Hey folks
<lordievader> Hey BluesKaj
<lordievader> How are you doing?
<BluesKaj> hey lordievader, fine here, and you?
<lordievader> Doing good here.
<BluesKaj> 'Morning pauljw
<pauljw> hey BluesKaj :)
<lordievader> Hey pauljw
<lordievader> How are you doing?
<pauljw> hi lordievader, doing good thanks.  you?
<lordievader> Doing good here :)
<ducasse> hiya BluesKaj, pauljw
<BluesKaj> hey ducasse
<ducasse> BluesKaj: any plans for the easter holidays?
<BluesKaj> yes, my daughter is coming to visit on Fri and will stay for the weekend including Mon. How about you ducasse?
<ducasse> my cousin is coming for a visit on thursday, i might go and visit my mother + sister and kids in the weekend if they're at home. other than that no plans.
<BluesKaj> my daughter is looking at buying a new vehicle and is leaning towards a VW jetta or even a used Passat ...the 2018 's have received very medoicre reviews for both, but apparently the 2017 model jettas are are much better in terms of handling and power
<ducasse> i'm totally ignorant about cars, as i've never owned or even driven one
<BluesKaj> I see, ok.
<lordievader> The VW Up is quite nice. Though I guess not really an option for someone looking at a Passat ð
<BluesKaj> lordievader, think she prefers the jetta
<BluesKaj> Passats a re lame frpm what I've read about them
<BluesKaj> from
<lotuspsychje> good evening to all
<lotuspsychje> !isitoutyet
<ubot5> Yes!
<daftykins> \o
<daftykins> must be wrong :D
<lotuspsychje> yeah juste dited it
<lotuspsychje> edited
<lotuspsychje> <lotuspsychje> !isitoutyet is Not yet!
<lotuspsychje> <ubottu> Your edit request has been forwarded to #ubuntu-ops.  Thank you for your attention to detail
<hggdh> heh
<lotuspsychje> and howdy daftykins
<lotuspsychje> hey hggdh
<hggdh> lotuspsychje: cheers
<hggdh> I frankly would rather have it as isitoutalready, though
<hggdh> but it gets too long
<lotuspsychje> yeah, party si pretty dead still either :p
<lotuspsychje> oh cool bionic theme has changed a bit
<daftykins> more accurate would be: isthebuggyfirstreleaseoutyet
<daftykins> followed by isthenearlyusablefirstpointreleaseoutyet
<hggdh> daftykins: s/first/new/
<hggdh> :-)
<daftykins> first release of a given number, makes sense to me
<daftykins> 'initial' would be better perhaps
<hggdh> well, yes, agreed
<lotuspsychje> https://imgur.com/a/sQvUv
<lotuspsychje> left side in nautilus grey
<pragmaticenigma> !isitoutyet
<ubot5> Yes!
<pragmaticenigma> stil not fixed
<pragmaticenigma> :-[[
<pragmaticenigma> I thought the color scheme was changing in 18
<lotuspsychje> pragmaticenigma: think i saw an article that the new theme would not apply
<lotuspsychje> pragmaticenigma: https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2018/03/ubuntu-18-04-lts-no-new-gtk-theme
<pragmaticenigma> A snap theme??? really, a snap! blech
<lotuspsychje> yeah im not gonna test that either
<lotuspsychje> AuroraAvenue: welcome
<AuroraAvenue> hello
<AuroraAvenue> (I shall probably regret saying that ;)
<AuroraAvenue> lotuspsychje, we ave spoken before.
<lotuspsychje> could be
 * AuroraAvenue nods
<AuroraAvenue> lotuspsychje, Do they 'allow' biscuits where you live ? or do they inflict those things called 'cookies' at your locale ?
<AuroraAvenue> BionicMac, sup, buddy ?
<BionicMac> Bionic Beaver chewing on this mac. =)
<AuroraAvenue> cool.
<daftykins> apart from the mac bit ;D
<lotuspsychje> bbl tv time
<lotuspsychje> goo luck daftykins lol
<BionicMac> I wasn't careful where I had grub write the boot-loader and trashed osx's ability to boot.
<daftykins> i found it pretty easy to get them to coexist last time i had an old mac kicking around
<BionicMac> My fault for not looking close during Ubuntu install.
<daftykins> although they are hell in general for boot antics :D did an SSD upgrade for a clients Late 2009 iMac recently
<BionicMac> It feels so great to just install and "use" linux with minimal configuration. a little apt here, a little therr... boom. excellent.
<daftykins> only when the hardware is supported (:
<BionicMac> true, I got lucky.
<BionicMac> Very lucky. I have better display resolution with bionic than I had with osx.
<daftykins> retina device and you've just got 1:1 instead of hiDPI now by the sounds?
<BionicMac> 3840 x 2160 (16:9) on beaver. well I lied , the max on osx is 5120 x 2880. Yes, 5k retina.
<BionicMac> don't know about 1:1 hidpi
<BionicMac> I dropped it to 3200 x 1800 so I could see. =)
<daftykins> HiDPI is when it does the pixel quadrupling so the UI elements (like the dock and finder bar) appear normal size
<BionicMac> You lost me.
<daftykins> ah with LCD you have to run 1:1 or it'll appear blurred if it's scaling it up to the edges, wouldn't fancy that myself
<BionicMac> I would really party if I could get this apple magic trackpad 2 tweaked. It works great already but no gestures. just plain point and click.
<daftykins> i detest those things :D encountered them on clients macs
<BionicMac> I tried 'touchegg' to no avail, and some X configs. nothing.
<daftykins> does it detect multi-touch at all? so does two finger scrolling work?
<BionicMac> No.
<daftykins> SOL then :)
<BionicMac> straight up point/click and dbl-click
 * BionicMac plays a sad song...
<daftykins> actually let me ask someone
 * BionicMac crosses fingers 
<daftykins> nope never tried
<BionicMac> I have me old handy regular 10 year old usb logitech connected too. So yeah, I'd rather have gestures on the pad.
<BionicMac> Can't even get right-click on the pad.
<BionicMac> this calls for more chips and salsa.
<daftykins> that's how you know you bought Apple
<BionicMac> It should be called "TrApple.
<BionicMac> Trapped by the mighty monster.
<BionicMac> iCLoud this iCLoud that....blah blah blah...
<daftykins> :>
<BionicMac> which xorg.conf does bionic use?
<BionicMac> if any?
<BionicMac> I found a howto with synaptics driver for the pad but I need to edit that file or whichever file X is using.
<daftykins> something like /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/ - i don't use desktop so am not the best for that
<daftykins> could always:find /etc -name "xorg.conf"
<BionicMac> ~/.local/share/xorg/Xorg.0.log
<BionicMac> but no xorg.conf anywhere
<nacc> BionicMac: there is none by default
<nacc> it's not needed anymore
<daftykins> ah yeah i forgot about that xD
<daftykins> wow am i rusty
<nacc> daftykins: :)
<daftykins> yeah you had to generate one to put custom config in, but i'm pretty sure you're not gonna get anywhere
<BionicMac> so where would I put -> this tye info now? -> https://www.thefanclub.co.za/how-to/how-use-apple-magic-trackpad-ubuntu-multiple-monitors
<BionicMac> s/tye/type/
<nacc> BionicMac: in a file in /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/ ?
<nacc> which is what daftykins said
<BionicMac> although I don't need multiple monitors , I need the InputClass section or whatever is relevant now.
<nacc> this is getting dangerously close to support, though, adnd better asked in the support channel(s)
<daftykins> ^ i was in a rare mood of feeling nice
<nacc> daftykins: :)
<daftykins> and since it's bionic - #ubuntu+1
<BionicMac> So #ubuntu+1. thanks.
<nacc> BionicMac: yeah )
<BionicMac> Thank you nacc and daftykins.
<AuroraAvenue> What does everyone thing about this #ClusterMuck ?
<AuroraAvenue> https://www.reddit.com/r/Ubuntu/comments/870bcn/snap_support_for_peek_screen_recorder_discontinued/
<daftykins> justified reason for what is precisely wrong with snaps - and if you can get that program by another means, it's moot
<AuroraAvenue> hmm - seems a wayland issue.
 * AuroraAvenue prefers Mir anyway :)
<daftykins> ah too early to be concerned with wayland issues
<daftykins> Mir, so you're backing a dead-un? not wise!
#ubuntu-discuss 2018-03-27
<AuroraAvenue> Mir isn't dead - just 'cos I have got the millions that it requires to work - doesn't mean the code 'expired'.
<daftykins> sounds like a semantic argument
<AuroraAvenue> sounds like I am talking to another gnomed person. oh well.
<daftykins> i run Windows actually
<AuroraAvenue> figures.
<daftykins> is there a particular reason you're trying to make this personal?
<AuroraAvenue> bye pal. don't take it personally.
<daftykins> yeah please don't come back with this poor attitude
<AuroraAvenue> lovely.
<AuroraAvenue> bye.
<leftyfb> pragmaticenigma: I'm sure they'll be removed at some point between today and tomorrow. They seem to think it's ok to repeat the same question every 3 minutes
<leftyfb> "<fundies>	leftyfb, i wait over 3 minutes every time"
<pragmaticenigma> I know, we've provided them with all they could possibly need. The answer was there the whole time... file a stinkin' bug report.
<leftyfb> it's not a bug
<pragmaticenigma> they have a failure to understand how backports work
<leftyfb> it's them refusing to accept "you are doing things that aren't support"
<pragmaticenigma> backports requires someone to backport it in the first place... that's why their not getting what they want
<pragmaticenigma> anyways.. .time for sleep
<pragmaticenigma> night all (or morning as some may be)
<Bashing-om> NN pragmaticenigma - sleep well on job well done :)
<daftykins> \o
<leftyfb> ok, I'm done. Seems to be a trend tonight
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: WB :)
<lotuspsychje> hey Bashing-om crowdy?
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: A bit going on .. not a lot ..
<lotuspsychje> cool
<lotuspsychje> and morning guiverc
<xangua> 10 pm here
<Bashing-om> 23:35 here .
<guiverc> sorry lotuspsychje; i'm not very observant (& howdy to everyone else I ignored?!!)
<lotuspsychje> guiverc: no sweat, we are used to long idles here
<lotuspsychje> life on nr1 then irc
<guiverc> you're well & ready for your day?
<lotuspsychje> yeah
<ducasse> good morning, everyone
<Bashing-om> morn'n ducasse o/
<ducasse> hiya Bashing-om - how are you? your session been busy?
<Bashing-om> ducasse: All well - considering - .. and yeah busy session .. got a dilly of one work'n now :)
<ducasse> Bashing-om: i can see that :) good you're kept busy ;) i've got to wake up a bit before i do anything, i think
<Bashing-om> ducasse: Coffee is good !
<ducasse> i used to drink coffee when i was working, but not anymore - now i get my caffeine from coke
<lotuspsychje> hey ducasse
<ducasse> hi lotuspsychje - how are you today?
<lordievader> Good morning
<lotuspsychje> fine here tnx ducasse
<lotuspsychje> hey lordievader
<ducasse> hi lordievader - all going well?
<lordievader> Hey ducasse lotuspsychje
<lordievader> Doing allright here, how are you guys?
<ducasse> all well here, thanks - nice weather too. maybe a little snow will melt today, with some luck.
<Bashing-om> Temp: 68Â°F (20Â°C) ~ Overcast ~ Humidity: 78% ~ Wind: From the ESE at 7 MPH ~ Alert: Flood Watch ~ Observed: Tue 27, 01:55
<lordievader> Nice and warm there Bashing-om
<lordievader> Here is will be max 9 degrees.
<lordievader> (celcius)
<ducasse> currently -4Â°C here, hoping for some improvement now that the sun is out
<Bashing-om> ducasse: Come on sun shine .. - I been cutting grass for a couple of weeks already - .
<ducasse> Bashing-om: fixed any of the mowers yet? ;)
<Bashing-om> ducasse: Nope ..  the big mowers ..on my do-to list .. been at it with the old human powered rotary mower :)
<ducasse> human powered is a pretty safe fallback :)
<Bashing-om> ducasse: No gas, no oil to worry with :)
<ducasse> and no motors that fail on you :)
<lotuspsychje> bbl work, have a nice1 guys
<Bashing-om> ducasse: and look at the good exercise that is provided :P
<ducasse> Bashing-om: hehe, exactly :) you'll be really fit now that you've stopped smoking(?) ;)
<Bashing-om> ducasse: smoking .. still a work in progress - but still holding !
<ducasse> takes time, especially when you've been smoking for many years
<Bashing-om> ducasse: A nasty addiction . I have high hopes I will beat it this time .. ( I have made the attempt so many times ! )
<ducasse> Bashing-om: i plan to quit myself in the not-so-distant future, already got the patches to get me through the beginning
<Bashing-om> ducasse: I tried the patches .. did not work out for me ... I did cold turkey 'til O could not take it anu more .. now on a scheduled withdrawal .
<ducasse> Bashing-om: i've already started reducing my intake, so i smoke less than i used to. hopefully that will help some.
<Bashing-om> ducasse: I do 6 or less hits on a 2 hour schedule .. and tough that lasr 30 minutes out :)
<ducasse> must be 2 lomg hours :)
<ducasse> *long
<Bashing-om> ducasse: Amazing how long when you are watching that clock :P
<ducasse> Bashing-om: :)
<ducasse> have you tested upgrading to bionic yet, or just done a clean install? thinking of upgrading my laptop today...
<Bashing-om> ducasse: No, on bionic I did a clean install . Still prefer 16.04 xfce .
<Bashing-om> ducasse: Ny mind is pretty set to do a core install of 18.04 and run xfce there also .. shame that xfce will not do wayland .
<ducasse> Bashing-om: yeah, they'd need to rewrite it for gtk3 and write a new compositor - basically a whole new de
<Bashing-om> ducasse: Uh Huh ,, not goung to happen .
<Bashing-om> ducasse: We will just have to wait and see how popular wayland becomes :)
<ducasse> Bashing-om: aiui a rewrite for gtk3 is underway, but i don't know how far they've come
<Bashing-om> gtk3 has been forthcoming for a spell now . Us a pain to keep up with the proper engine .
<Bashing-om> us/is*
<ducasse> ...and gtk4 is already on the horizon.
<Bashing-om> wow ,, had not heard gtk4 .
<ducasse> Bashing-om: iirc work on it is supposed to start this year
<Bashing-om> ducasse: One thing for sure .. 'buntu is a fast moving target .
<Bashing-om> Nother thing for sure - well past beddy bye time .. Nighty nite .
<guiverc> Frox, what is your background (or how long had you been using windoze; how well did you understand what the OS did etc I think i'm asking; or how much do you want to know..)
<Frox> guiverc, well at the moment i am a student who learns java (basic level e.g loops, arrays, etc) I have been using windows as far as I can remember
<guiverc> have you tried youtube etc?  (to learn) - it seems popular (not my cup of tea really)
<guiverc> my preferred method (as a student) would be libraries; go in and study anything about posix/unix/linux (all ~equal).. buying books is expensive; university libraries are the best imho...
<Frox> youtube is in my opinion not the best place to learn linux :p There are a lot of videos but I couldnt find a channel which has a good structure
<Frox> and content for beginners
<Frox> The most channel I found had like 10 vids with different topics and that was all
<guiverc> beyond the study (eg. books in libraries), ideally you want to find a group where you can ask questions (why is this? why does that work etc), even as a beginner I think uni.libs are great (most books are beginner level even there)
<guiverc> group - could be a group on social media (g+ or wherever you're comfortable); if you're using Ubuntu you could always come in here (#ubuntu for support questions about your Ubuntu)
<Frox> Do you have any good books to suggest me?
<guiverc> looking -- alas most of my books are old ... what do you want to do with your Ubuntu (or GNU/Linux)?
<guiverc> another GREAT thing about GNU/Linux books - there are tons of PDF etc. books available for download & reading offline... eg. want to learn python? the book I recommend is "Dive into Python" which you can download free....
<Frox> Firstly to learn how to use the terminal I guess :p
<guiverc> (nah I won't look; too many to pick from) .. I'd suggest whatever books you find. I learnt unix in the mid-80s and can still use 75% of what I learnt then.  We used SH(ell), which was replaced by BASH (used today; a superset of SH) hence commands haven't changed much. Most of any GNU/Linux (eg. RedHat/CentOS) also applies in Ubuntu/Debian.
<guiverc> even a apple mac uses BASH..  CSH is favored (C shell) by BSD's, but is still a superset of SH so mostly the same.
<guiverc> one book i like - "linux in a nutshell" (o'reilly), but its more a reference book, not tutorial...   I'd start by looking for free books available online (many titles are - many because of GPL license requirements)
<ducasse> Frox: you can try this, most of it also applies to ubuntu: https://debian-handbook.info/
<ducasse> also try the ubuntu server guide
<ducasse> !server
<ubot5> Ubuntu Server Edition is a release of Ubuntu designed especially for server environments, including a server specific !kernel and no !GUI. The install CD contains many server applications. Current !LTS version is !Xenial (Xenial Xerus 16.04) - More info: http://www.ubuntu.com/products/whatisubuntu/serveredition - Guide: https://help.ubuntu.com/lts/serverguide - Support in #ubuntu-server
<guiverc> don't forget the Ubuntu Manual (ducasse gave link in #ubuntu) - its for Ubuntu 16.04 but is pretty good for beginners (mainly gui from memory; I don't recall much terminal..)
<Frox> Somebody suggested me this one before which looks interesting "Linux Command Line A Complete Introduction by William E. Shotts, Jr."
<ducasse> when it comes to unix books, anything from o'reilly is generally good, in my experience
<guiverc> it 'rings a bell' (sounds familiar) but I don't know it; i concur with o'reilly, but have many good books from elsewhere (i like books, have lots of em)
<guiverc> thought:  when trying to learn; set yourself a goal.  (eg. hello world program). to help writing a program, set yourself a purpose & code it. create a file of random chars (or grab a text file), sort it using term.  create a new file from it using only the 4-7th words from each line (or something.. ie. set a goal & work out commands to achieve it...)3
<guiverc> (my point was; rather than sit & wonder how to use it - set yourself some goal & use commands to accomplish it  my example maybe (extracting specific words) is pretty easy to do in sh/bash/..)
<guiverc> you know the `man` (manual), `info` etc commands (they are really reference, rather than tutorial, some tutorial info exists in from memory; but its pretty basic..)
<guiverc> ducasse, it's a shame the Ubuntu Manual won't be updated for 18.04 :(
<guiverc> Frox, maybe this is worth a scan https://askubuntu.com/questions/151488/what-is-the-best-way-to-learn-how-to-use-ubuntu-with-terminal
<guiverc> William Shott's book is available in PDF format free online - download & read it (It looks like one I do have - I think my old copy is Unix Command Line) - buy a copy if you like it & want to support the author (if you can..)
<Frox> guiverc, thank you for the link :)
<guiverc> You're most Welcome..   You can come back with questions anytime  (if you get other people you may get better ideas too)
<pragmaticenigma> nacc, going to step into the frying pan with fundies?
<leftyfb> run away!
<pragmaticenigma> leftyfb, right? looking it at it... there is no documentation for installing travis-ci locally... so I have no idea what he was doing... travis-ci is meant to be used through their domain
<nacc> pragmaticenigma: last i checked, they just wanted help with backportpackage, at my suggestion
<pragmaticenigma> nacc, they were looking for libgrpc-dev .. they weren't having any luck with the tool searching the universe repo
<kostkon> !info firefox xenial
<ubot5> firefox (source: firefox): Safe and easy web browser from Mozilla. In component main, is optional. Version 59.0.1+build1-0ubuntu0.16.04.1 (xenial), package size 45183 kB, installed size 174332 kB
<kostkon> not yet?..
<daftykins> are you after .0.2 or something?
<kostkon> yep
<nacc> pragmaticenigma: ok
<daftykins> heh version chasing :P
<kostkon> admittedly it's just that. most changes in .0.2 are bug fixes for windows
<pragmaticenigma> nacc, I don't believe it exists in universe, but fundies became rather discontent with our answer of needing to file a bug report
<pragmaticenigma> what's in .0.2 kostkon that is so aluring?
<daftykins> nothing, as was just said
<kostkon> yep nothing
<pragmaticenigma> oh, missed that... mind is in a couple places at the moment
<nacc> pragmaticenigma: well, it does in 16.04 and on
<nacc> pragmaticenigma: seems particularly strnage to get tor, if you care about privacy, and then use a ppa to install it, which means you give some rando root
<daftykins> xd
<daftykins> * xD
<nacc> i guess that's just my opinion, though :)(
<pragmaticenigma> which is why I wasn't advocating it... I'm pretty sure many of us use Tor (I use it mostly to test my set from outside my network)... I was trying to find the documentation that discouraged using PPAs or installing into /opt
<pragmaticenigma> couldn't find it fast enough
<nacc> !ppa says the unsupported bit
<ubot5> nacc: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<pragmaticenigma> I know the tor-browser is included in Ubuntu's main repo... but it's almost always out of date
<nacc> iirc
<nacc> yeah
<lotuspsychje> good evening to all
<pragmaticenigma> evening? it's lunch time here!
<lotuspsychje> pragmaticenigma: welcome to ubuntu timezones :p
<lotuspsychje> 19h33
<lordievader> Ubuntu timezones... You know what we should do is fork a timezone and make it so that it is allways time for coffee... or beer...
<lotuspsychje> lol
<pragmaticenigma> it's 5:30 somewhere
<lotuspsychje> pragmaticenigma: you lunch at 5h30?
<pragmaticenigma> I "lunch" at 1100 Central Prevailing Time
<kostkon> in internet time please
<pragmaticenigma> at present it would be 1600 UTC during Dayling Saving Time
<pragmaticenigma> Daylight
<lotuspsychje> nite nite all, tv time
<kostkon> no, this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swatch_Internet_Time
<kostkon> i really need to change the battery in my swatch. it's like this one http://gadgetboy.org/archives/2012/7/15/its-time-to-bring-back-the-beat.html
<pragmaticenigma> yeah, that was destined to fail when the time zone choosen wasn't GMT/UTC
<kostkon> it was doa yeah
<pragmaticenigma> Kind of like my3words is doa
<kostkon> same concept same outcome lol
<daftykins> hrmm some Ryzen 2 numbers leaking out - https://videocardz.com/75504/cpc-hardware-amd-ryzen-7-2700x-review-goes-online#disqus_thread
<pragmaticenigma> leftyfb, they're technically not wrong :-/
<leftyfb> B.S.
<leftyfb> guidelines aren't black and white
<pragmaticenigma> I dunno, the guidelines only mention channels, nothing about networks
<daftykins> what're the commoners doing now? :)
<pragmaticenigma> moot point anyways, they got what they came for and hopefully move on
<pragmaticenigma> oh nothing special daftykins
<daftykins> :/
<leftyfb> Next time I'll answer them with a contradicting answer in each channel
<leftyfb> then when they call me out on it , I can point them to why it's a bad idea
<daftykins> oh you had a cross-poster? deal with it directly, simple
<leftyfb> they seemed to have thought that because it was across different networks that it was ok
<leftyfb> like that makes a lick of difference to the reason behind not doing it
<daftykins> what other network, Mint's channels or something?
<leftyfb> EFnet, not that it matters
<daftykins> well i'd be curious the channel in the other place, so yeah it does
<daftykins> used to get Mint users lying that they run Ubuntu so they could get support
<leftyfb> the point is, you're looking for immediate help from several people at the same time while not devoting yourself to troubleshooting with either one of them. Also potential contradicting answers
<daftykins> you don't need to preach to the choir, avoiding my questions is pretty annoying though
<leftyfb> I answered your question immediately
<daftykins> < daftykins> well i'd be curious the channel in the other place
<daftykins> i really hope this isn't how you guys are in #u
<leftyfb> #ubuntu
<daftykins> on efnet as well?
<leftyfb> yes
<daftykins> hrmm didn't know they had one, how rude!
<leftyfb> I've been on there longer than freenode
<pragmaticenigma> Is the EFNet room officially by canonical? I would assume freenode is, since Canonical puts it as the default network in hexchat installs
<daftykins> pretty sure it's only freenode
<leftyfb> no, it's not official
<leftyfb> but it used to be a lot easier to get help there back in the day when freenode was just too busy
<leftyfb> it used to be pretty active
<pragmaticenigma> ah, okay
<pragmaticenigma> whats next for fun tonight leftyfb do ya think? return of fundies?
<leftyfb> as soon as the hellstorm at work is over, I'm done for the night. My fingers hurt I've been working so hard today. And I'm supposed to be off this week to take care of my 3 month old who came home from the hospital for the first time this weekend
<nacc> pragmaticenigma: fundies has been getting help in #ubuntu-devel
<nacc> which was the wrong place to direct them to by whomever did, but it's fine
<pragmaticenigma> ah, another cross posting :-(
<pragmaticenigma> oh, they probably found there way on their own... is it still the libgrc issue?
<nacc> yes
<leftyfb> aww, we missed it
<pragmaticenigma> for reference was it possible to do the backport?
<nacc> pragmaticenigma: no, and they don't need to
<nacc> well, i mean, yes it's possible, just difficult
<nacc> and they didn't want to do the necessary work, afaict
<pragmaticenigma> yeah, we ran into the same problem  in main chat... alnong with not so nice things said about ubuntu and the volunteer help they were receiving
<nacc> pragmaticenigma: yeah, that continued too
<daftykins> sounds like a delight
<pauljw> heheh...
<pragmaticenigma> every moment XP
#ubuntu-discuss 2018-03-28
<tre99> anybody here ever try linux from scratch (lfs)?
<daftykins> nope
<leftyfb> tre99: are you looking for a discussion or support with it?
<daftykins> looks more like homework to be done ;D
<tre99> leftyfb: just discussion
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: :) .
<lotuspsychje> hey Bashing-om
<lotuspsychje> just had a loginloop on bionic lol
<lotuspsychje> removed indicator-multiload and it worked from recoverymode
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: Not you ! .. I am aware that there are presently again issues with the nvidia driver .
<lotuspsychje> but im on ati mate
<lotuspsychje> and my gf's session worked fine
<lotuspsychje> hence why i suspected my recently installed indicator
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: Well ! .. do not know where I got confused that you also ran nvidia .
<lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: im also testing on nvidia yeah, got 3 machines with bionic
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: I have yet to boot this day into bionic . Maybe I too have issues .. remains to be seen .
<EriC^^> evening all
<EriC^^> i mean morning
<lotuspsychje> hey EriC^^
<EriC^^> hey lotuspsychje
<EriC^^> what's up?
<lotuspsychje> just fixxed a loginloop on bionic
<lotuspsychje> removed indicator-multiload in reoverymode
<EriC^^> nice
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: what are you doing?
<EriC^^> oh you dont wanna know :P
<EriC^^> j/k
<EriC^^> not much i just woke up
<lotuspsychje> hehe
<EriC^^> lotuspsychje: what you up to today?
<lotuspsychje> hey ducasse lordievader
<lordievader> Morning
<Bashing-om> One gold star on the status board for Bashing-om :P
<lordievader> How so?
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: A difficult/trying  solution deserves a gold star - so I think .
<Bashing-om> lordievader: Ouch that one ^ .
<ducasse> good morning, everyone
<Bashing-om> ducasse: :)
<ducasse> hiya Bashing-om - how have you been? all going well?
<lotuspsychje> !cookie | Bashing-om
<ubot5> Bashing-om: Wow! You're such a great helper, you deserve a cookie!
<lotuspsychje> hey ducasse
<lotuspsychje> bbl on breakfast here guys
<ducasse> hi lotuspsychje - how are you?
<Bashing-om> ducasse: goes well .. one more gold star this session :P
<lotuspsychje> fine mate tnx
<ducasse> Bashing-om: and you just got a cookie as well ;)
<Bashing-om> ducasse: well i passed the cookie to TJ- . He is the one that showed me ;)
<ducasse> how has your session been, Bashing-om - busy?
<Bashing-om> ducasse: And interesting .. been a good session . I do need to back down and get some rest. got a trying day tomorrow .
<ducasse> Bashing-om: ok, go get some sleep - i'm sure you deserve it :)
<ducasse> Bashing-om: we'll talk later, sleep well!
<Bashing-om> ducasse: :) soon as all settles out in main .
<lordievader> Hey ducasse
<lordievader> How are you doing?
<ducasse> hi lordievader - all good here, thanks, how are you today?
<lordievader> Doing good here too :)
<ducasse> got much on your schedule today?
<lordievader> Yes. There is a minor market today.
<lordievader> My supervisors started the 'Cybersecurity and cybercrime' minor this year.
<ducasse> sounds fun, should be interesting
<lotuspsychje> bbl work guys
<lotuspsychje> have a nice1
<BluesKaj> Hi folks
#ubuntu-discuss 2018-03-29
<Bashing-om> guiverc: WB :)
<guiverc> thanks Bashing-om :)
<Bashing-om> guiverc: Get ready to jump in, the water is fine :P
 * pragmaticenigma splashes water @ guiverc & Bashing-om 
<Bashing-om> pragmaticenigma: No efect . done got my feet wet :)
<guiverc> :) @ pragmaticenigma -- you wet me
<daftykins> don't drink the penguin pee
<BionicMac> Or the Burrito droppings.
<BionicMac> Many updates tonight. So far so good very stable. Good little beaver.
<BionicMac> I even sorted out my "sound glitch". I had to install pavucontrol to clear things up in the configuration tab and select the correct profile. Done and rockin. =)
<daftykins> o0 what was it set to vs. what works right?
<BionicMac> ok let me pull it up.
<BionicMac> pavucontrol / configuration tab/ Builtin audio prifile selector was set to "digital stereo (iec958) output + analog stereo input" - I changed it to "analog stereo duplex". ... Then I had to select "Playback" tab and set the firefox slider up" ( The test was a youtube video so yes.
<BionicMac> s/prifile/profile/
<BionicMac> Once the profile was changed system sounds also started playing.
<daftykins> ah yeah, iec958 is optical (S/PDIF)
<BionicMac> I'm happy. Pretty much every piece of hardware I can think of  is recognized and at least basic functionality tested.
<BionicMac> I haven't tested firewire though. I could see if the ports are recognized by the kernel though.
<daftykins> dead interface, that one :)
<BionicMac> It's a good night. My new 1G inet connection was installed today and the first test proved to be 950+.
<daftykins> mm nice, although i prefer real world downloads + uploads to test :>
<daftykins> what service type is that - and where in the world?
<BionicMac> suddenlink able in louisiana usa
<BionicMac> s/able/cable/
<daftykins> ah har
<daftykins> passed through NOLA on a roadtrip with friends back in 2012
<daftykins> can't say i felt safe - but the food was good :D
<BionicMac> yeah, the safe part... =0
<BionicMac> Best food in the country here.
<BionicMac> Mny cities are full of crime and stay on the top crime rate lists in the USA.  I'll move soon. Within th eyear I want to move.
<BionicMac> Colorado, Washington state or Oregon.
<BionicMac> You've heard of the Duck Dynasty rednecks reality show? Their home is in Monroe, LA. which is in the top 10 cities for crime this year.
<daftykins> nope!
<BionicMac> Lucky you. =)
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<lotuspsychje> morning BionicMac
<BionicMac> morning lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> !find unity
<ubot5> Found: gir1.2-unity-5.0, gnome-control-center-faces, libunity-dev, libunity-protocol-private0, libunity-scopes-json-def-desktop, libunity9, banshee-community-extensions, community-themes, edgy-community-wallpapers, fusiondirectory-plugin-community (and 376 others) http://packages.ubuntu.com/search?keywords=unity&searchon=names&suite=artful&section=all
<BionicMac> Nice, I just checked lm-sensors and the cpu is running 30 degrees cooler in ubuntu beaver than what it runs in native mac osx.
<lotuspsychje> cool
<BionicMac> https://pastebin.com/1636dT2W
<lotuspsychje> looks good
<BionicMac> lotuspsychje: Here is my current screenshot: https://photos.app.goo.gl/AXDb96JdwHYOfJSA3
<lotuspsychje> BionicMac: neat
<lordievader> Good morning
<ducasse> good morning, everyone
<ldosfjo> asdf
<jink> 'sup, kids?
<ldosfjo> sup\
<ducasse> hiya, jink
<lordievader> Hey ducasse jink
<lordievader> How are you all?
<jink> Fine, mostly! :D
<ducasse> hi lordievader - how are you?
<ducasse> good here, thanks :)
<lordievader> Doing good here too :)
<lotuspsychje> morning lordievader EriC^^ ducasse jink
<EriC^^> morning lotuspsychje
<EriC^^> how's it going?
<lotuspsychje> great here
<lordievader> Hey lotuspsychje
<lordievader> How are you doing?
<lotuspsychje> fine fine, 2 days left before holiday :p
<ducasse> hi lotuspsychje, EriC^^ - how are you guys?
<lotuspsychje> hey ducasse
<EriC^^> hi ducasse, good here yourself?
<ducasse> i'm good, thanks
<EriC^^> guys i noticed today that !nomodeset sucks
<EriC^^> !nomodeset
<ubot5> A common kernel (boot)parameter is nomodeset, which is needed for some graphic cards that otherwise boot into a black screen or show corrupted splash screen. See http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1613132 on how to use this parameter
<EriC^^> the link only goes on to mention how to add grub parameters using /etc/default/grub , nothing about pressing shift, then pressing e to edit etc
<EriC^^> it's not very dead on either, it's very general mentioning acpi and vram and a bunch of acpi topics etc
<EriC^^> not so newbie friendly
<lotuspsychje> yeah i dont like it to forward to ubuntu forums neither
<EriC^^> it should be pretty newbie friendly as newbies installing ubuntu getting a blank screen are gonna use it, also it should mention how to edit grub from the installer
<lotuspsychje> but i cant find any more decent wiki then !bootoptions
<EriC^^> it only mentions the legacy installer F6 method, no uefi pressing e method
<ducasse> there should really be a wiki page on nomodeset, it's such a common thing
<lotuspsychje> !bootoptions
<ubot5> For a list and explanation on some of the boot options, see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/BootOptions See also !nomodeset.
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: if you find anything decent lemme know
<lotuspsychje> bbl guys work
<elizabeth_bennet> Super Newb. Have questions, need help. Anybody available?
<TJ-> elizabeth_bennet: sure. Support isssues in #ubuntu - this channel is for general non-support discussion
<elizabeth_bennet> Thanks for the redirect.
<BluesKaj> Hi folks
<ducasse> hi BluesKaj - how are you doing?
<BluesKaj> hi ducasse, ok here. and you?
<ducasse> all good here, tidying up a bit. my cousin is coming for dinner, so i thought i'd make the place a bit more presentable.
<BluesKaj> hmm desktop just crahed
<BluesKaj> crashed even
<BluesKaj> ok here we go, 111 upgrades
<BluesKaj> right, I have to clean house today for my daughter's visit tomorrow
<ducasse> stuff like that is on the 'boring things that still needs to be done' list
<daftykins> just had a play with desktop bionic, bit odd that alt+space shortcuts are no longer possible - the context menu appears but e.g. 'x' for maximise no longer does anything
<TJ-> Wonderful Gnome?
<daftykins> :D
<pragmaticenigma> except it's not gnome... it's Ubuntu-Gnome
<daftykins> nobody likes a hair slicer
<pragmaticenigma> except you know it's true... since Gnome removed a bunch of things Ubuntu put back in to make the transition easier
<daftykins> i'm really beginning to dislike you
<TJ-> pragmaticenigma is likely correct; Canonical have tried to make Gnome behave like Unity and only got part of the way there, so it's not Gnome but it's not Unity and no-one knows for sure which options/hotkeys to expect
<daftykins> seemed a given to me that didn't need to be spelled out to the choir
<pragmaticenigma> daftykins, I see no reason to get hostile. I don't know your knowledge base in these things. I wasn't attempting to insult or call you out for anything. I merely stated a thought, in the open for conversation.
<daftykins> well here's a clue, i've been here a while - don't explain things
<pragmaticenigma> This is an open forum and anyone should feel free to express their thoughts. I'm done on this topic, let's move on.
<daftykins> You can be as done as you like, but try and show some courtesy.
<daftykins> not to worry i'll just set an ignore
<pragmaticenigma> practice what you preach daftykins
<lotuspsychje> hey guys
<BionicMac> Hello lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> hey BionicMac wb
<BionicMac> Thanks, you as well.
<lotuspsychje> tnx
<lotuspsychje> !mac | BionicMac can you check if this is still valid method, or you installed another way?
<ubot5> BionicMac can you check if this is still valid method, or you installed another way?: For help on installing and using Ubuntu on a Mac, see: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MactelSupportTeam/CommunityHelpPages
<BionicMac> Awesome, It should have some tips and hints! My main deal now is how to make the changes sound (pavucontrol)  "stick" between reboots  and sometimes even screen locks. I'm having to re-enter it frequently. Not sure if that is a specific mac issue but more a sound chip thing.
<BionicMac> My changes in pavucontrol are staying, however, I have to toggle the profile in the configuration tab often to regain sound.
<lotuspsychje> hey Bashing-om
<lotuspsychje> slowly starting
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: Hey hey .. getting settled in -- see what the day brings . Updated bionic this AM and a new kernel :)
<lotuspsychje> !info linux-image-generic bionic
<ubot5> linux-image-generic (source: linux-meta): Generic Linux kernel image. In component main, is optional. Version 4.15.0.13.14 (bionic), package size 2 kB, installed size 14 kB
<lotuspsychje> yes indeed
<EriC^^> evening guys
<Bashing-om> Hey EriC^^ Good day to ya :)
<EriC^^> hey Bashing-om , you as well :)
<Bashing-om> EriC^^: Rainy here .. so a good excuse to IRC with a clear consious :)
<lotuspsychje> hey EriC^^
<lotuspsychje> rainy here aswell
<EriC^^> :D
<EriC^^> kinda slow right now, hopefully it picks up a little :)
<EriC^^> hey lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> 1600 users it should :p
<pauljw> hi everyone
<EriC^^> hey pauljw
<pauljw> hi EriC^^ :)
<EriC^^> :)
<lotuspsychje> hey pauljw
<pauljw> hey lotuspsychje :)
<lotuspsychje> bbl guys tv time, last day work tomorrow
<EriC^^> wb pauljw
<pauljw> ty EriC^^
<EriC^^> :)
<pragmaticenigma> guess they burned out leftyfb
<leftyfb> or were removed
<pragmaticenigma> it said client quit
<pragmaticenigma> thought that meant they signed off
<leftyfb> yup, freenode does that if they're removed from the network by an op in a certain way
<pragmaticenigma> oh
<TJ-> pragmaticenigma: one thing I try to do is not let-on or feed the trolls in-channel, so instead of doing !op I /join #ubuntu-ops and request help there
<pragmaticenigma> TJ-, Since one cannot loiter there, It's easier for me to call the flag... I do it once, and only once
<TJ-> No need to loiter, just pop-in
<pragmaticenigma> ya know... this community seems to be getting more hostile by the day... guess that's just my cue to buzz out again
<TJ-> pragmaticenigma: not at all, just pointing it out. Some trolls enter the channels to get reaction, so if they don't see us react they don't bother again
<TJ-> an op just 'leaves' or 'quits' them without them enjoying some confrontation
<pragmaticenigma> It's not you specifically... and it's not about the op flags or any one thing specific
<pragmaticenigma> I joined this particular room because i was encouraged to do so. ever since, it seems instead of trying to help each other out, it's easier to point out a flaw or an action that doesn't quite fit someone else opinion of how something should be handled
<TJ-> pragmaticenigma: you have to have a thick skin on IRC, there's no facial expressions or body language to gauge peoples attitudes by
<pragmaticenigma> But I see it in both, it's not about thick skin. One individual isn't going to take me down
<TJ-> pragmaticenigma: you'll get that in any area of life; use /ignore and you're sorted
<pragmaticenigma> I see putting someone on ignore as something immature. I've delt with the lowest of low lifes and trolls both online and IRL. I'm calling out the fact that this should be a community to help each other, help others... if I give bad information, it's fine to point it out, but geesh, focus on the matter at hand
<TJ-> Agreed, but i use /ignore like I do in real life; I ignore folks that are out to cause disruption
<pragmaticenigma> one misstep and isntead of helping the person looking for help, it's like all attention goes to the person that screwed up. as if it's going to help the person who came for an answer
<pragmaticenigma> I ignore with my eyes... i can see the name/handle and just know to skip the next line
<TJ-> especially on IRC most people seem to want to have the last word, and they're afraid of missing something, so they won't use /ignore, then they get more wound up ... and on it goes
#ubuntu-discuss 2018-03-30
<Bashing-om> !isitout
<ubot5> Not yet!
<eeb> Looks like there's an intel microcode update for 17.10. Any info on it?
<Lin-Buo-Ren> SECURITY UPDATE: New upstream microcode data file 20180312 to provide     IBRS/IBPB/STIBP microcode support for Spectre variant 2 mitigation
<leftyfb> "New upstream" from 2 weeks ago?
<eeb> Looks like it just showed up on artful repository though
<eeb> I can't find many details online. I'm wondering how it might affect performance
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<JanC> it's new in the official security repositories (was in -proposed for a couple of weeks, I think)
<lotuspsychje> morning JanC
<lotuspsychje> breakfast
<guiverc> [breakie]  the best meal of the day in my opinion :)
<Lin-Buo-Ren> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/intel-microcode/+bug/1759920
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1759920 in linux (Ubuntu Artful) "intel-microcode 3.20180312.0 causes locks up at login screen(w/ linux-image-4.13.0-37-generic)" [High,Confirmed]
<guiverc> ouch (@ 1759920)  thanks Lin-Buo-Ren
<kostkon> ouch
<kostkon> indeed
<ducasse> good morning, everyone
<lotuspsychje> bbl work time
<ducasse> ttyl, lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> cheers ducasse
<BluesKaj> Hi folks
<BluesKaj> Hi folks
<BluesKaj> oops
<leftyfb> TJ-: And this 100% the definition of a snowflake
<leftyfb> this/that is
<TJ-> doesn't bother me
<lotuspsychje> good evening to all
<lotuspsychje_> !info prime95
<ubot5> Package prime95 does not exist in artful
<lotuspsychje_> doesnt ring a bell on me daftykins
<daftykins> been using it on Windows since the 2000s - www.mersenne.org
<lotuspsychje_> evening pragmaticenigma
<pragmaticenigma> hello lotuspsychje_
<bungholio> Hello  folks.
<BionicMac> I just discovered 'dconf reset -f /' ... Nice. Beware this will reset your desktop back to defaults. I wanted it.
#ubuntu-discuss 2018-03-31
<daftykins> !trusty
<ubot5> Ubuntu 14.04 LTS (Trusty Tahr) was the 20th release of Ubuntu. Download at http://releases.ubuntu.com/14.04/ - CHECK FOR POINT RELEASES at http://releases.ubuntu.com - Release Info: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TrustyTahr/ReleaseNotes
<ducasse> good morning, everyone
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<ducasse> good morning, lotuspsychje - how are you today?
<lotuspsychje> hey ducasse very good as its holiday!
<lotuspsychje> hey xangua
<xangua> Hey
<xangua> Good midnight
<ducasse> \o xangua
<lotuspsychje> how are you today ducasse
<ducasse> lotuspsychje: yay! :) i'm fine, thanks - got to go shopping groceries today as the shops will be closed for a few days again
<lotuspsychje> aha! we did full fridge yesterday :p
<lotuspsychje> all well EriC^^ ?
<EriC^^> yeah just woke up :D
<EriC^^> how's it going with you?
<lotuspsychje> great, holidays yess
<EriC^^> awesome :D
<lotuspsychje> ahhh coffee tastes so good
<ducasse> hi EriC^^ - how are you?
<EriC^^> hi ducasse , good thanks you?
<ducasse> all good here, EriC^^ - enjoying a quiet morning
<EriC^^> cool  :)
<lotuspsychje> did you guys read intel graphics tool has been depraced
<lotuspsychje> as drivers got backed well from the Os itself
<ducasse> i saw the article, but didn't really read it
<lotuspsychje> !info pingus
<ubot5> pingus (source: pingus): Free Lemmings(TM) clone. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.7.6-4 (artful), package size 652 kB, installed size 2222 kB
<EriC^^> nice
<lotuspsychje> looks great
<lotuspsychje> neat graphics & nostalgy haha
<EriC^^> :D
<lotuspsychje> bbl shower
<BluesKaj> Hi folks
<lotuspsychje> hey BluesKaj
<lotuspsychje> cool bionic got transfer integration on nautilus icon
<lotuspsychje> !debian | iBurger21
<ubot5> iBurger21: Ubuntu and Debian are closely related. Ubuntu builds on the foundations of Debian architecture and infrastructure, with a different community and release process. See https://www.ubuntu.com/about/about-ubuntu/ubuntu-and-debian - !Repositories meant for Debian should NOT be used on Ubuntu!
<guiverc> iBurger21, #ubuntu is for Support questions only
<lotuspsychje> iBurger21: as your on ubuntu here, we of course reccomend you use ubuntu
<iBurger21> I personally started using ubuntu for my servers because I noticed there are PPAs which sometimes fix things for me.
<lotuspsychje> iBurger21: ubuntu is friendly in use for everyone
<guiverc> Ubuntu has a looser policy on what can be included (ie. many non-free bins are included in the ubuntu iso when compared to debian - making installs easier
<lotuspsychje> +1 guiverc
<BluesKaj> Hey lotuspsychje, guiverc
<lotuspsychje> hey mate
<guiverc> free meaning freedom (debian terminology) ; non-free meaning no cost to use, but no freedom to view/change source etc
<guiverc> Howdy BluesKaj lotuspsychje - hope ya both well.   Happy Easter (Passover...)
<lotuspsychje> tnx u2 happy EGG
<iBurger21> I know this maybe sounds stupid: but how do you guys recommend me to install Google Chrome?
<iBurger21> Add the PPA, yes or no?
<iBurger21> (that's the 1st I do on Linux now)
<lotuspsychje> iBurger21: we have chromium-browser as alternate for ubuntu
<iBurger21> Sounds good
<lotuspsychje> ttyl guys
<iBurger21> cheers
<iBurger21> ttyl
<guiverc> iBurger21, i don't really use it, but a simple way is adding the ubuntu-mate welcome package (which includes the software-boutique) and selecting chrome from their. many non-standard software is listed in the boutique and ppa's are added automatically if required
<BluesKaj> Happy Easter lotuspsychje, I just cut the cord to my sat service a couple of days ago ...I receive more tv chans on kodi than I can watch :-)
<iBurger21> Ahh that's amazing. If possible, I don't want to mess a lot with the system.
<iBurger21> (cus you risk fucking it up)
<iBurger21> Thanks guiverc
<guiverc> it makes adding things like skysomething, dropsomething easy - as many common apps are there :)  (and repos are safe/vetted)
<BluesKaj> iBurger21, google chrome coes as a deb file if you download it from their site...and watch the language please
<BluesKaj> comes
<guiverc> ps: it works on any *ubuntu, just created by ubuntu-mate flavor...
<iBurger21> Ahh but ubuntu-mate is also gives you the Mate desktop.
<iBurger21> ^ gotta add the ubuntu welcome package, will do some research.
<guiverc> one difference between ubuntu & debian is release date. both are ~two year releases (stable debian vs lts ubuntu), but you know when ubuntu is released (even year, april), you don't know when debian will be [released; ie. when its ready]
<guiverc> the welcome package is just a welcome-intro app (plus software-boutique), and won't include anything else of the mate desktop... software-boutique was just packaged with welcome-app
<guiverc> installing ubuntu-mate-welcome will only add welcome & software.boutique apps to other ubuntu's, no part of mate desktop will be added (unless you add it)
<iBurger21> i really like the new look of 18.04
<iBurger21> ubuntu looks cool again
<iBurger21> one question: does the python package in ubuntu, come directly from debian?
<guiverc> another advantage I guess with Ubuntu - from 12.04LTS (past EOL) you could switch to 12.04ESM for longer support; debian doesn't really have that security...
<guiverc> re: python - i don't use python so no idea.  https://packages.ubuntu.com/search?keywords=python &  https://packages.ubuntu.com/bionic/python would need me to check the maintainers to see.. i don't recognize names & not willing to spend time myself sorry.
<iBurger21> ill look into it, thanks
<iBurger21> python3-minimal
<iBurger21> https://packages.ubuntu.com/bionic/python3-minimal
<guiverc> generally ubuntu/canonical try to change minimal (to reduce maintenance costs)  - in fact some of debian is maintained by canonical staff..
<iBurger21> yes that's what the page says too
<guiverc> http://changelogs.ubuntu.com/changelogs/pool/main/p/python3-defaults/python3-defaults_3.6.4-1/changelog  -- nearly every email is @debian...
<guiverc> (i had to go to 2009 to find first @ubuntu.com email in changelog..)
<iBurger21> wow that's a good thing
<iBurger21> (i can develop on ubuntu and deploy on debian)
<iBurger21> What I also appreciate about Ubuntu is that there a recent versions of Neovim included.
<iBurger21> Some stuff in Debian gets so old. It really takes a lot of time to get it all up to snuff.
<guiverc> yes - ubuntu is mostly debian-testing (so its rarely as old as debian-stable), though i know many many folks who only ever used debian-testing  (and thus see lesser older stuff)...  hadn't seen neovim so thanks :)
<iBurger21> the neovim completion manager is just plain brilliant
<iBurger21> https://github.com/roxma/nvim-completion-manager
<lotuspsychje> whats going on with drivers lately, arent those suppose to keep stable when they work?
<lotuspsychje> got 2 eth chipsets on xenial and bionic that worked fine, and after updates cant connect anymore
<kostkon> lotuspsychje, which ones
<lotuspsychje> kostkon: realtek & 3com https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/network-manager/+bug/1755248
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1755248 in network-manager (Ubuntu) "Network card does not connect anymore" [Undecided,New]
<lotuspsychje> kostkon: they worked fine month ago
<lotuspsychje> welcome ppf
<ppf> hi
<ppf> wanna see what this chan is about :)
<lotuspsychje> we discuss about latest stuff here to make #ubuntu support better
<kostkon> like this one lol. windows just got demoted https://www.theverge.com/2018/3/30/17179328/microsoft-windows-reorganization-future-2018
<lordievader> Does 3com still exist?
<lotuspsychje> lordievader: yeah yeah laugh at my old hardware
<lotuspsychje> lordievader: the other chipset was in a more recent laptop
<lordievader> Thought that was one of those companies you only heard off from stories of the past.
<lotuspsychje> lordievader: if the driver was working amonth ago...
<lordievader> Oh, it is actually true ð¤£ð¤£ð¤£
<lotuspsychje> nice link kostkon
<lordievader> And now? No device is detected?
<lotuspsychje> lordievader: yeah device is detected, driver active, just cant connect eth anymore, wifi works like a charm on both systems
<lordievader> Through the network manager? What happens when you connect manually?
<lotuspsychje> lordievader: yes via nm, when trying to click in icon eth it doesnt connect
<ppf> what about using i[
<ppf> ip
<lotuspsychje> ppf: didnt test that yet
<lordievader> Yeah, that is what I meant with manually, just ip or dhclient.
<lotuspsychje> my isp has dynamic ip
<ppf> is this machine your router?
<lotuspsychje> if ip was bad, wifi would not work neither right?
<ppf> what's the network topology?
<lordievader> You don't have a router between you and your isp?
<ppf> lordievader: he talks about wifi, i bet he does ;)
<lotuspsychje> ppf: no router, vdsl2 modem straightly connected
<lordievader> With `ip` we mean the command from iproute2.
<ppf> lotuspsychje: what're you connecting your wifi to then?
<lotuspsychje> vdsl2===eth cable===laptop/desktop both systems got same isp
<lotuspsychje> ppf: bot machines got wifi card also, working fine there
<lotuspsychje> ppf: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/network-manager/+bug/1755248
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1755248 in network-manager (Ubuntu) "Network card does not connect anymore" [Undecided,New]
<ppf> lotuspsychje: there's no wifi AP in your topology graph
<lotuspsychje> yeah both vdsl2 modems got wifi broadcast
<ppf> wat
<lotuspsychje> vdsl2 sagem modem + wifi
<ppf> is it a router, a modem, or a 'wifi modem' you got from your asp?
<lotuspsychje> wifi modem
<lordievader> Oh, they are probably one of those all in ones
<lotuspsychje> bbl dinner first mate
<ppf> yeah, that's a router
<ppf> so your isp doesn't matter
<lordievader> Modem + router +WiFi
<ppf> so, ifup your eth, and run dhclient
<lordievader> Anyhow, try to connect manually.
<lordievader> Don't blaim nm before you know nm is the problem ð
<lotuspsychje> ok ill try, you guys got me thinking
<Bashing-om> I got to run .. back in several hours .
#ubuntu-discuss 2018-04-01
<kafv2__> test
<daftykins> passed
<ducasse> good morning, everyone
<lotuspsychje> good mornito all
<EriC^^> morning all
<lotuspsychje> hey EriC^^
<EriC^^> hey lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> bbl movie
<lotuspsychje> re
<firezep> hey guys, sorry for a the stupid question kinda new to ubunto[linux in general] do you guys recommend squirrelmail at all or should I look for another email option?
<leftyfb> firezep: I definitely do not recommend squrrelmail for use as a ftp or media server
<leftyfb> ^ jest
<leftyfb> firezep: as for email, what services are you looking for? Why do you need webmail? What's the backend?
<firezep> leftyfb, not for ftp just for email usage, also already blocked ftp ports and added failt2ban just in case
<firezep> well you know to learn stuff and also have my own email :P
<leftyfb> firezep: learn what? A webmail service isn't necessary for to have your "own email"
<ducasse> why not just set up a pop3/imap server and use a proper email client?
<leftyfb> ^
<firezep> oh you can do that? fuck im dumb
<leftyfb> firezep: no need for the language
<firezep> oh sry was referring of my self :X
<leftyfb> firezep: your #1 focus on setting up an email server is security
<firezep> not trying to offed anyone
<firezep> so just install imap and use it with outlook or something like so?
<firezep> really sorry kinda new to linux  :(
<leftyfb> firezep: yeah, if you dumb it down to the lowest possible way of referring to it, sure
<leftyfb> firezep: an email server is one of the most insecure things you can run on your server. You'll be spending hours upon hours of reading and learning to get it right. I'll be honest, I've been running an email server for about 20 years and I'm still learning and fixing mistakes
<firezep> well gotta start somewhere tbh
<firezep> I was just going to use for private trackers and such
<firezep> not like I have a lot of stuff in my current vps that people could steal also.
<leftyfb> firezep: if you want to be able to receive email from and check email from the internet, then you need to open up the relevant ports and services to the internet and setup the security properly. It doesn't matter what it's being used for
<firezep> ducasse, what email client would you recommend me then?
<leftyfb> firezep: it's also not a matter of what people "steal". It's a matter of creating another source of garbage on the internet
<firezep> Well I guess I can do that to a certain extent leftyfb also its just to learn and test
<firezep> not much tbh
<firezep> Is ee what o mean firezep. that makes sense
<leftyfb> firezep: you go into this with 100% security in mind and lock it down or don't do it at all
<firezep> well but for what you say I can just opening some ports and services can you point me with some guidelines where I can learn or inform my self better, if I may ask
<leftyfb> firezep: if you don't care to take the effort to lock it down properly and are going to proceed with setting it up anyway, I suggest adding your VPS public ip address to all available RBL's so the rest of the internet doesn't have to deal with the garbage that will most certainly be emanating from your server
<firezep> sorry RBL? :P
<leftyfb> exactly
<leftyfb> I don't mean to discourage learning, but building something like an email server to learn how do to it with little to no thought put into securing it properly or spending the time to really understand how it all works is really not worth the amount of resources your server will waste when it starts sending garbage out
<leftyfb> firezep: if you are really that interested in learning, the thing that I do is immediately google all possible names, services words I don't understand when someone or some article is explaining the thing I want to learn
<firezep> When you say "garbage" you mean like people exploiting my email server of some how right?
<leftyfb> yes
<leftyfb> it WILL happen
<leftyfb> if you do not work to prevent it
<firezep> even with fail2ban and closed ports? :O
<leftyfb> closing all email ports will prevent your email server from sending/receiving email to/from the internet
<leftyfb> I highly suggest this method if you are not going to properly security it otherwise
<firezep> I see,, well I'm going to do some more research about it then.
<firezep> thanks leftyfb
<leftyfb> firezep: I suggest reading everything you can about setting up a postfix server. Read everything you can about RBL's, open relays and how to properly authenticate using SSL ports/services
<firezep> will do leftyfb thanks again in advance
<BluesKaj> Hiyas all
<firezep> \o
<leftyfb> https://www.theverge.com/2018/4/1/17185732/cloudflare-dns-service-1-1-1-1
<leftyfb> I don't know about anyone else, but that is night and day better performance for me
<kostkon> nice
#ubuntu-discuss 2020-03-23
<lotuspsychje> good morning
<lordievader> Good morning
<ducasse> good morning
<rfm> .join @ubuntu-server
<daftykins> Welcome to #ubuntu-server
<pragmaticenigma> all sorts of huh?
<lotuspsychje> hey bluefox83
<lotuspsychje> what do you wanted to know about snaps?
<bluefox83> so whats the deal with snaps? why is ubuntu using them/it?
<lotuspsychje> evolution
<lotuspsychje> devs like them
<bluefox83> it's going to eat an awful lot of hard drive space if everything i install requires snaps
<lotuspsychje> bluefox83: as user, you have the choice to remove snaps
<pragmaticenigma> Snaps are intended to allow developers to release software packages at their own pace instead of waiting for their latest versions to be picked up by major distributions like Ubuntu.
<bluefox83> and, i just have a little 150gb ssd
<bluefox83> ah
<lotuspsychje> 150gb you will need to install a lot of snaps to get full
<bluefox83> is it supposed to help mitigate things like dependency issues?
<oerheks> no dependencies needed, so no cruft extra on your system, fast updates, and pretty good confinement
<oerheks> sure you read that too...
<bluefox83> i saw something about sandboxing, whats that all about?
<lotuspsychje> snap quiz :p
<pragmaticenigma> to ensure snaps do not cause harm to the host system, they are "sandboxed" by default, and the developer has to choose which things they will need access to carefully and configure their snap release accordingly
<bluefox83> sorry, i'm not trying to put you folks on the spot here, i'm just not sure about snaps, and whether theyr're a better option than .deb
<pragmaticenigma> a standard package and snap have their strengths and weaknesses... which to use depends on your usage case
<oerheks> oh it was just a flamewar?
<bluefox83> also, i got my linux start by installing debian sid with a set of floppies, way back in 04. so i'm rather fond of it. i don't want ubuntu to abandon it's roots, ya know?
<pragmaticenigma> bluefox83: Debian and Ubuntu are more distant that they were a few years ago
<Ussat> wether snaps are "better" or not, depends onuse case IMHO
<bluefox83> does ubuntu no longer provide upstream work?
<bluefox83> like updates to kernel, and software updates to things gthey have in common, like gnome?
<pragmaticenigma> they do
<bluefox83> *they
<lotuspsychje> +1 Ussat
<lotuspsychje> snaps can be useful in some cases
<pragmaticenigma> Where's my +1 lotuspsychje ... i said that 2 minutes and 23 seconds before Ussat
<lotuspsychje> !cookie | pragmaticenigma kiss
<ubot5> pragmaticenigma kiss: Wow! You're such a great helper, you deserve a cookie!
<pragmaticenigma> :-P
<TJ-> bluefox83: snaps aren't a better option for many reasons, not least that even Canonical snaps can break especially when installed in classic (unconfined) mode
<lotuspsychje> :p
<TJ-> bluefox83: the other issue is access to source-code, knowing where support, if any, should come from (not IRC for example)
<pragmaticenigma> Very true... support for Snaps is rather up in the air right now
<TJ-> bluefox83: then there's confined snaps not being able to access network shares and other ad-hoc mounts users may have where they want to read and write documents to
<TJ-> I discovered last week that the snap-core itself breaks on 20.04 server... because it operates unconfined, has an *old* version of ssh client and libs in it, but due to being unconfined its LD_LIBRARY_PATH means it is linked by the dynamic linker to the libraries on the *host* 20.04 ... which are missing symbols, so snap-core breaks
<bluefox83> TJ-: that sounds problematic, to say the least
<bluefox83> nothing like breaking all of your applications at once because your snaps-core is out of date with the system.
<bluefox83> honestly, i'm having issues with getting the folding at home program to install correctly...sure i forced it to ignore broken depencencies, but it doesn't offer the same control with what i managed to get working
<bluefox83> and every time i try to install a package, it fails, saying there's a broken package. and there's an icon that indicates something is broken...
<bluefox83> every time i try to fix it, it uninstalls the fahcontrol .deb
<daftykins> fwiw there are no work units going around at the moment, totally idle here
<daftykins> i fired it up on seeing the news about there being corona research to do :)
<bluefox83> i'm running something right now
<bluefox83> i read that if you can't get it to start something right off, give it another try because there are so many systems working that the network is a little jammed
<pragmaticenigma> more like... just install it, set it up... and let it do its thing... don't force refresh or trigger anything manually.. you will just contribute to further delays
<bluefox83> yeah
<bluefox83> i don't have any other option with my setup anyways
<bluefox83> i'm tempted to pull out my old desktop and get that working
<pragmaticenigma> Rosetta@home is a similar project also researching proteins and COVID-19... it has different goal, but worthy of some attention too
<bluefox83> ive never heard of rosetta@home
<daftykins> well mine worked on a few WUs overnight
<daftykins> it's up to it now yeah :)
<bluefox83> i thought i had mine set up to run all the time, but my damn laptop logged out when i closed the lid. so it stopped
 * lordievader runs folding@home since a week
<daftykins> hah hope there is some nice fresh paste and clean vents on that...
<Ussat> +1 pragmaticenigma ...better :)
<bluefox83> on the old desktop? i don't have any cooling paste, but it does have clean vents
<daftykins> you're kind of expecting some mindreading here, i don't know your systems xD
<daftykins> all systems have paste between the CPU and heatsink, if you haven't got any, that's not great :D
<bluefox83> what i mean is, i don't have a tube laying around to refresh what is already there.
<bluefox83> i'm certain i can do it, i just don't know if my gf would be ok with me doing it.
<daftykins> yeah don't experiment on others equipment if you've not done it before xD
<bluefox83> also, it's a pretty old desktop, i think it's only dual core...
<bluefox83> it's my equipment
<daftykins> honestly i would leave f@h off laptops
<bluefox83> i'm more worried about running up the power bill :D
<daftykins> that's not my point
<daftykins> reducing lifespan is
<bluefox83> it's running fine on this laptop
<bluefox83> there's actually a laptop setting for folding@home
<pragmaticenigma> bluefox83: if you wish to run on a laptop, I would encourage you to elevate your laptop to ensure lots of airflow underneath
<daftykins> yes i know, i mentioned i use it
<daftykins> yeah extra breathing room for sure
<bluefox83> pragmaticenigma: yeah, i set it up so the vent gets a nice unobstructed breeze
<bluefox83> the vent side stays propped up when i'm not actively using the laptop
 * pragmaticenigma has been using the hearth of my fireplace which is really cold right now
<bluefox83> nifty
<Bashing-om> UWN623 Hot off the terminals: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/Issue623 :D
<pragmaticenigma> is it like everyone has nothing better to do than troll #ubuntu... so many other channels out there
<pragmaticenigma> why this one
<oerheks> i left.
<oerheks> i just read the logs, hilarious
<kostkon> 1B people are on lockdown some slight increase in trolling is to be expected
<pragmaticenigma> yeah, but this seems more suspicious... when there are "several people" with very similar topics throughout the day... very high coincidence or something fishy goin' on
<daftykins> "support is now closed due to targeted trollings from bored stuck-at-home individuals with no lives"
<kostkon> 2 notifications for the same song thank you spotify
<jeremy31> daftykins: how can I get help with my Mint install?
<daftykins> o0
<jeremy31> But it is based on Ubuntu
<oerheks> jeremy31, install first these ppa's
<oerheks> https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/SJKdztDDXg/
<jeremy31> I guess I am on both sides as I am a forums moderator in Mint and ubuntuforums
<oerheks> then on hexchat > window > systemsettings
<oerheks> oh
<oerheks> you are one of the 2 developers?
<jeremy31> I am just a forum moderator
<jeremy31> There might be 6 devs.
<primalone_> How is everyone doing today?
<jeremy31> Still alive
<primalone_> Good to hear that Jeremy.
<daftykins> jeremy31: i figured you were just joking / copying the style of query from someone in #u ?
<jeremy31> daftykins: I see quite a few post on ubuntuforums from Mint/EOS and other distros
<daftykins> unsurprising - i'm not really getting why you highlighted me with that, though
<jeremy31> daftykins: that was the joke part
<pragmaticenigma> ruffling feathers
<jeremy31> not the intent
<daftykins> heh, nah i didn't take it that way - but i used to see all this directly when i still gave support
<daftykins> these days i see how much of a waste of time it is when the majority of the cretins are working against you
<jeremy31> A lot don't even want to give enough info to even start with
<daftykins> *nod*
#ubuntu-discuss 2020-03-24
<lotuspsychje> good morning
<lordievader> Good morning
<ducasse> good morning
<pragmaticenigma> hggdh: you mean the fact that they've been doing it for more than 4 hours isn't enough reason to block them?
<oerheks> he avoida a ban by using multiple ways of connection, weak tor config
<hggdh> oerheks: banned by $a, not connection address/type
<pragmaticenigma> I'm guessing with the somewhat higher internet usage.. tor is really going to be flakey
<oerheks> thanks hggdh :-)
<akem> Will "service" (to list services) be removed at some point? also i wonder why it is so slow to list.
<pragmaticenigma> Isn't that something server side?
<akem> pragmaticenigma, Hm, you mean that to me? It's all local AFAIK, i was trying to list running services, first using "service --status-all" and it's very slow, but "systemctl list-unit-files" is instant.
<akem> Of course much more infos with systemctl.
<pragmaticenigma> akem: oh... you mean on your machine... didn't realize the topic of the conversation switched
<akem> Yeah.
<akem> It is a bit faster now, but first time i tried, it was waiting on each line, strange.
<pragmaticenigma> indexing perhaps?
<akem> Yeah, i don't know.
<pragmaticenigma> ChadTaljaardt: First and foremost, your company should be running daily backups of their production systems. If they're not doing that much, then they are setting themselves up for major single point of failure.
<pragmaticenigma> the backups are the first line of defense for restore after system crashes, bad updates, etc
<pragmaticenigma> and they should be keeping several backups around, in case an update takes a few days to manifest a problem
<akem> If they want you to compile everything, switch to Gentoo it will be easier maybe :P
<pragmaticenigma> akem: please don't
<akem> Just joking.
<oerheks> he worries about his 'production environment'  ???
<oerheks> no testing setupo?
<oerheks> lolz
<ChadTaljaardt> We keep database backups every day and store them for 60 days if i recall correctly
<pragmaticenigma> ChadTaljaardt: To make your company understand better... tell them that it takes more man hours and costs more money to take their proposed approach, when there are so many smaller more maintainable approaches
<ChadTaljaardt> i dont think the comapany cares about that, they see it as a really high priority to make sure everything is version static
<pragmaticenigma> also, all that stuff you mentioned, increases the chances of something breaking... not preventing
<ChadTaljaardt> i just dont understand whats so bad about getting curl from apt..
<oerheks> curl bad from apt?
<oerheks> interesting..
<pragmaticenigma> companies do many stupid things... but one they will pay attention to is their bottom line... they don't want to spend more money on a problem than they have to
<ChadTaljaardt> i think their perspective is that if you download a specific version and compile it manually, there is no chance of something going wrong with it later on, as everything should be exactly the same
<pragmaticenigma> and then they wonder why they got hacked because someone wasn't paying attention to a security update and didn't patch the servers
<oerheks> ChadTaljaardt, if you are so sensitive, built it yourself then, i see no security risc building by ubuntu
<ChadTaljaardt> Ive tried presenting that argument... they said getting the latest updates is a security risk
<ChadTaljaardt> While - because this is essentially a temp solution until (hopefully) we go "docker", I can live with it,  I would point out that just pulling the "latest" version of even smaller widgets is a recipe for a) a bollocks when something unexpectedly gets broken (and sorry - sooner or later that will happen) and b) is a security hole as big as a very big one should the underlying widget codebase get compromised.   Its fine for Dev trees, as a
<ChadTaljaardt>  "production" thing it rather less so...
<ChadTaljaardt> thats what they said
<oerheks> so, if you have no seperate testing pc, even your own builded packages can fail
<oerheks> apt or make..
<ChadTaljaardt> we do use a staging environement to test stuff
<ChadTaljaardt> but we only update things like every 6 months or so
<pragmaticenigma> ChadTaljaardt: Personally... I'd quit my job
<oerheks> yeah, stay @127.0.0.1
<ChadTaljaardt> bad time to quit lol, job market looks bad atm
<pragmaticenigma> ChadTaljaardt: soon as they get hacked or something crashes... your butt is going to get fired... they're looking for a scape goat
<ChadTaljaardt> problem is that the data hosted on the website is "highly sensitive"
<ChadTaljaardt> so we need to have very very good security
<ChadTaljaardt> such a dilemma..
<pragmaticenigma> So they want to lower the security to make it more secure... oh that makes so much more sense /sarcasm
<ChadTaljaardt> their argument is that newer versions of software can continue security holes, because it most likely hasn't been extensively tested and had time for people to look at it.
<ChadTaljaardt> contain *
<ChadTaljaardt> whereas older versions have had more time to be tested, thus more secure and more stable
<ChadTaljaardt> -.-
<pragmaticenigma> !latest | See this:
<ubot5> See this:: Packages in Ubuntu may not be the latest. Ubuntu aims for stability, so "latest" may not be a good idea. Post-release updates are only considered if they are fixes for security vulnerabilities, high impact bug fixes, or unintrusive bug fixes with substantial benefit. See also !backports, !sru, and !ppa.
<pragmaticenigma> Ubuntu already does that for you ChadTaljaardt ... they don't release the "latest" versions... they keep the version at the same version that was available at the time of release of the Ubuntu version
<oerheks> a package gets tested before it gets green light...
<ChadTaljaardt> already told them that..
<ChadTaljaardt> got ignored
<ChadTaljaardt> lol
<pragmaticenigma> The updates that Canonical pushes out are patches against the existing and vulnerable version, they don't upgrade to the latest because of a hole or bug... they fix it
<ChadTaljaardt> is that what you get when you do stuff like apt-get upgrade?
<ChadTaljaardt> cause we arent allowed to do that
<pragmaticenigma> Then I'm done with this exercise... As mentioned in main, the support channel will not support packages not provided through apt. That holds true for the channel and would probably hold true if your company had a support contract with canonical
<pragmaticenigma> The volunteers rely on the documentation put out by the developers of ubuntu... when a person/group compiles their own, we have no idea what flags, customizations, etc, where done to the code. and wouldn't have the proper documentation to support it
<ChadTaljaardt> well i got a call with them in 25 minutes to try argue the case for using apt.. so i wonder how this will go
<pragmaticenigma> Oh my Tux! You guys are just begging to get hacked... your company is a very very sad company
<pragmaticenigma> ChadTaljaardt: you can inform them... updates provided by canonical, within the support cycle of a release, do not push out the latest versions. They only focus on severe bug fixes and vulnerabilities. In the most rare of rare occassions is a new version release, but only when there is absolutely no way to fix the issue in the existing release.
<ChadTaljaardt> when you say a new release and a fix in a pre-existing realease, does that mean that if you install the same version of a package, say curl, that the code used to run this could be different in both cases?
<ChadTaljaardt> unless i am misunderstanding this
<pragmaticenigma> And when such an event happens, there are notifications sent out through release notes and other channels to let customers and users know that such an update is being made. so companies have ample time to prepare and test before deployment
<pragmaticenigma> Example: For Ubuntu 18.04 LTS, the version of curl I'm running on my machine is the same version that was available at install 2 years ago. Only thing that has been updated was for security vulnerabilities in that time. That is it
<ChadTaljaardt> right okay, so the version number will change but itll only be minor version number changes, not major
<pragmaticenigma> it won't necassarily be the minor version that changes... it might be a build number
<pragmaticenigma> so sub of the sub minor version number
<ChadTaljaardt> and if there are no security updates or major bug fixes, it'll be the original that was shipped with the os version
<ChadTaljaardt> ahh okay
<pragmaticenigma> that is correct ChadTaljaardt
<ChadTaljaardt> i think they might listen if i say that, because their perspecitive is that any changes as long as its not a major change gets packaged and shipped..
<pragmaticenigma> I'm a software developer myself... there is nothing worse than coding an application to leverage a system tool, only to have that tool change on you. It is one of the reasons that I have choosen Ubuntu over other distributions
<ChadTaljaardt> tbh they just need to learn how this stuff works, dont think it should be me doing this lol
<pragmaticenigma> darn right
<ChadTaljaardt> yeah thats their fear, we used to install things like elasticsearch and when there was an update it would break the system, we have pinned the version of elasticsearch now, but because of that they want to pin absolutely everything
<pragmaticenigma> the devs for Ubuntu, CentOS, RedHat, SuSE have been doing this for many many years... they all have similar philosophies when it comes to updates of software
<pragmaticenigma> better is to pin the problematic package, terrible is to assume everything is doing that
<ChadTaljaardt> yeah i proposed pinning the versions of all the stuff that is not within ubuntu, so like elasticsearch, rabbitmq, we have a custom python version (3.8) so thats pinned etc
<ChadTaljaardt> but should leave things like autoconf and wget to just come from apt
<pragmaticenigma> that sounds like the right approach to me
<pragmaticenigma> from this conversation... what it sounds like to me is they got bit in the bum version chasing... now they're gun shy about everything
<pragmaticenigma> I develop personally in python... I develop against version 3.6, even though most of my stuff is running on 3.7 and 3.8 machine
<pragmaticenigma> littlekimmy... at it again...
<oerheks> yes, a bad boy
<oerheks> if people do not want to read, why reading in #u ?
<pragmaticenigma> everything that comes up with a google search on their handle has someone telling them to leave
<pragmaticenigma> and notice how ever time someone calls them out on it... they go silent... until they think I'm not looking
<pragmaticenigma> or someone else that called them out for their behavior
<ChadTaljaardt> woo..
<ChadTaljaardt> convinced my team, they are on board with only pinning major packages we use like elasticsearch.. now i need to convince the CTO to allow us to run things like apt-get upgrade and not version pin everything
<ChadTaljaardt> fun fun
<daftykins> apt-get is pretty old school at this point fwiw, just apt now is enough :) saves on the ol' keystrokes
<pragmaticenigma> agreed... apt helps simplify... apt-get is still better for automating stuff
<pragmaticenigma> !info fglrx bionic
<ubot5> Package fglrx does not exist in bionic
<daftykins> how-so?
<daftykins> definitely took a while for feature parity, i think the xenial one couldn't 'clean'
<pragmaticenigma> I guess it came out of the man page: The `apt` command is meant to be pleasant for end users and does not need
<pragmaticenigma>        to be backward compatible like apt-get(8).
<oerheks> apt is superiour over apt-get
<pragmaticenigma> I think where I got the apt-get for automatted purposes was the progress bar in apt (which can be turned off) could cause issues for applications trying to pull and interpret the output
<ChadTaljaardt> pragmaticenigma do you know of a source which states that the ubuntu packages from apt are not the "latest"
<pragmaticenigma> ChadTaljaardt: I'll see if I can find a place that it is explicately spelled out... for now it might be somewhere in these docs: https://ubuntu.com/server/docs
<pragmaticenigma> https://ubuntu.com/server/docs/package-management
<pragmaticenigma> I don't know where the source of our factoid came from
<pragmaticenigma> !latest
<ubot5> Packages in Ubuntu may not be the latest. Ubuntu aims for stability, so "latest" may not be a good idea. Post-release updates are only considered if they are fixes for security vulnerabilities, high impact bug fixes, or unintrusive bug fixes with substantial benefit. See also !backports, !sru, and !ppa.
<ChadTaljaardt> yeah i tried googling for that term and it doesnt show anything except irc logs
<daftykins> if people are version chasing, educate them how ridiculous it is
<pragmaticenigma> hggdh: Do you happen to know the source of the !latest factoid
<pragmaticenigma> daftykins: we just did that earlier in here
<ChadTaljaardt> found this https://askubuntu.com/questions/151283/why-dont-the-ubuntu-repositories-have-the-latest-versions-of-software which tells it, but they want a more official source
<ChadTaljaardt> lol
<ChadTaljaardt> what is version chasing?
<daftykins> when people think that a bigger number and the pursuit thereof is everything
<pragmaticenigma> ChadTaljaardt: It's the opposite of what your company is trying to do
<ChadTaljaardt> ahh so always wanting the latest and greatest of everything
<lotuspsychje> ChadTaljaardt: latest doesnt mean greatest, thats the whole point
<ChadTaljaardt> it was just tongue and cheek
<ChadTaljaardt> im gonna get lunch, be back in a hour or so
<ChadTaljaardt> take care :)
<sarnold> hopefully helpful https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/FAQ#Versions https://www.debian.org/security/faq#version https://access.redhat.com/security/updates/backporting https://documentation.suse.com/sles/15-SP1/html/SLES-all/cha-update-backport.html
<ChadTaljaardt> thanks sarnold
<pragmaticenigma> ChadTaljaardt: White paper here: https://ubuntu.com/about/release-cycle
<ChadTaljaardt> ill check it out
<pragmaticenigma> ChadTaljaardt: in the link I sent, under the heading "Maintenance and security updates"
<sarnold> pragmaticenigma: that's nice page
<pragmaticenigma> BINGO! found it... same page ChadTaljaardt under the heading "Ubuntu kernel release cycle" second paragraph
<pragmaticenigma> In general, all of the LTS kernel packages will use the same base version of the Linux kernel, for example, Ubuntu 18.04 LTS kernels typically used the 4.15 upstream Linux kernel as a base. Some cloud-specific kernels may use a newer version in order to benefit from improved mechanisms in performance or security that are material to that cloud. These kernels are all supported for the full life of their underlying LTS
<pragmaticenigma> release.
<ChadTaljaardt> thats only saying for the kernel though, not the packages in the apt?
<ChadTaljaardt> unless im misunderstanding it
<sarnold> cloud-specific kernels are weird
<sarnold> https://kernel.ubuntu.com/sru/dashboards/web/kernel-stable-board.html
<pragmaticenigma> I'm not an expert on this, the page as a whole is supposed to instill the confidence that Ubuntu is stable and things aren't going to shift beneath the feat of an organization trying to use the product
<pragmaticenigma> *feet
<TJ-> clouds tend to vaporise or rain down on you - remember that!
<sarnold> lol
<pragmaticenigma> ChadTaljaardt: Beyond what we can find, you might have to call https://canonical.com/contact-us
<pragmaticenigma> ChadTaljaardt: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LTS
<TJ-> LTS == if we break it we might actually fix it
 * lotuspsychje opens umbrella
<hggdh> !-latest
<ubot5> latest aliases: newest - added by Seveas on 2006-06-19 13:43:19 - last edited by rww on 2011-03-22 05:25:44
<hggdh> pragmaticenigma: ^
<hggdh> or, you meant the raw factoid:
<hggdh> !+latest
<ubot5> <reply> Packages in Ubuntu may not be the latest. Ubuntu aims for stability, so "latest" may not be a good idea. Post-release updates are only considered if they are fixes for security vulnerabilities, high impact bug fixes, or unintrusive bug fixes with substantial benefit. See also !backports, !sru, and !ppa.
<pragmaticenigma> hggdh: I mean the actual location of documentation that was used to create that factoid... like where in the Canonical/Ubuntu documentation does that message come from
<pragmaticenigma> hggdh: as in citation
<lotuspsychje> hggdh: ChadTaljaardt wanted an explain of why LTS has not latest packages
<hggdh> oh. No, I do not know (anymore). But the reason is basic: stability. Same thing Red Hat, SUSE, Oracle, etc (even Debian) do: you need a stable image you can redeploy multiple times without wasting time to learn of new problems/issues/features
<pragmaticenigma> at some point, that should make it's way into ubuntu.com's whitepapers as "fact" ... for now the only true reference I was able to find lives in a wiki
<pragmaticenigma> I don't know what the process is for that
<lotuspsychje> somthing to also think about, is when ubuntu serves latest snaps right from software choices, we get mixed systems with both stability and latest software
<hggdh> I really do not know. It may well be that this is one of the "basic truths" that everybody assumes but very few (myself included) actually thought of documenting
<oerheks> interesting conv. https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/proposal-for-ubuntu-20-04lts/12969
<oerheks> all we need is an #ubuntu-snap channel please
<lotuspsychje> oerheks: one month to go..i assume things will be bit late for insert all those ideas
<hggdh> lotuspsychje: yes, snaps can give a sysadmin headaches; most places I have been, snaps are only installed by the sysadmins (and they have to have an approved change request)
<hggdh> oerheks: there is already #snappy
<pragmaticenigma> hggdh: I think with Ubuntu evolving toward more enterprise level of products, it would be advantages to include that in their whitepapers and on the main site pages. Where content can't be modified freely by those with accounts.
<lotuspsychje> oerheks: maybe 20.10 :p
<rfm> Is there any reason to prefer UUID=blahblah over /dev/disk/by-uuid/blahblah in /etc/fstab?
<lordcirth_> rfm, It's shorter and clearer, IMHO
<daftykins> yeah critical file, reduce the character count imo
<rfm> I noticed the 20.04(dev) installer now uses /dev/disk/by-uuid
<jalepenoftw> Hi there! I've been working on an open source project (https://FreePN.com) for a few months and wanted to get some feedback! FreePN is a Linux-first (Ubuntu included) open-source peer-to-peer VPN project.
<jalepenoftw> explanations for this and other common questions here: https://freepn.com/pages/faq.html)
<akem> jalepenoftw, It's a nice idea, but it won't work for many of us.
<akem> Here i'm using a VPN(NordVPN) because it's not logged and no-one is monitoring the connection. Now if i use FreePN, i can become some sort of exit node for other peers, and my output is monitored, so someone torrenting for example, my ISP would just think i am torrenting. And other peers maybe logged or monitored too.
<daftykins> yeah that'd be in violation of most peoples ISP contract
<jeremy31> Who reads?
<jalepenoftw> So we actually allow you to choose what traffic you're comfortable carrying -- we give certain pre-selected categories you can choose from (think filesharing as an example), and if you basically 'check the box' for a given category, that traffic will be rerouted elsewhere / you won't act as an exit node for that category of traffic.
<akem> Yeah. It's still a good project, i hope it will get some attention.
<akem> I think the alternative is the darknet(Tor) but only if you stay on the encrypted network(onion), that way no one can tell what's going on. - but most people want things that are only available on clearnet OFC, and it's not usable ATM for torrenting.
<oerheks> LLVM 10.0.0 Release (llvm.org)
#ubuntu-discuss 2020-03-25
<lotuspsychje> good morning
<Goop> is Nextcloud #1 in open source and free filesharing and collaboration software, or is there anyone else beating them to it?
<lotuspsychje> Goop: i think one should seek the best fileserver for your needs
<lotuspsychje> Goop: is there something specific you want to do?
<lotuspsychje> there are so many protocols & solutions out there like sftp, apache,..
<Goop> lotuspsychje, no, I'm just seeing if there is software that receives more features, more development, more support than Nextcloud.
<Goop> Open source, and self-hosted option, of course.
<Goop> lotuspsychje, Nextcloud also has a Talk app for video conferencing, which I really like.
<lotuspsychje> Goop: is this useful? https://www.tecmint.com/free-open-source-cloud-storage-tools-for-linux/
<Goop> lotuspsychje, thanks
<lordievader> Good morning
<lotuspsychje> hey Malsasa
<Malsasa> Hello #ubuntu-discuss community! Glad to come back to IRC once again since a very long time!
<lotuspsychje> Malsasa: im currently helping testing 20.04 LTS
 * Malsasa surprised that now webchat.freenode.net changed so much.
<Malsasa> Hello lotuspsychje, thank you for your hospitality!
<lotuspsychje> no prob
<Malsasa> I wish all people in #ubuntu-discuss safe and sound in this worldwide emergency situation.
<Malsasa> lotuspsychje, what ubuntu version you are using right now? I am currently using 16.04.
<Malsasa> I also use Trisquel 8.0 which is based on 16.04 as well.
<lotuspsychje> Malsasa: scroll up, i told you
<Malsasa> lotuspsychje, wow Focal Fossa.
<lotuspsychje> yes
<Malsasa> How fortunate are you.
<lordievader> ð
<Malsasa> I do not have good internet access at home.
<Malsasa> I am waiting the time until I can go outside to download Focal Fossa beta.
<lotuspsychje> somewhere with a good public wifi?
<Malsasa> lotuspsychje, thanks for sharing with me. I feel like home again after too long leaving IRC.
<Malsasa> *at home again
<Malsasa> lotuspsychje, yes just like you guessed.
<Malsasa> In indonesia, internet access is still very expensive and slow.
<Malsasa> That was my reason at that time to use IRC and email and loved them so much I could not live a day without.
<lordievader> Why did you stop using it?
<ducasse> good morning
<Malsasa> lotuspsychje, time.
<Malsasa> I do not have time to chat anymore in IRC as I spent more time on other places.
<lotuspsychje> think thats for lordievader
<Malsasa> lotuspsychje, oooh I'm sorry I missed a mention.
<Malsasa> But sometimes, I occasionally come to IRC.
<lordievader> Right, time is always an issue ð
<Malsasa> My IRC group of all time is #ubuntu-indonesia. I managed online classes there since 2013 or so.
<Malsasa> My seniors did teaching about Ubuntu & GNU/Linux there and I just manage the time and promotion so people would attend.
<Malsasa> That time was golden era.
<Malsasa> lotuspsychje, lordievader, thanks, I feel at home again here.
<lotuspsychje> morning TJ-
<TJ-> hiya ... is it me ir is IRC the only thing still working in this world!?
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: heh yeah, irc 24/7 :p
<lotuspsychje> you should see #coronavirus its bigger then an ubuntu party
<TJ-> I've seen the virus and defeated it ... didn't take much either!
<lotuspsychje> i dont need it either
<lotuspsychje> got sick from a vaccine once
#ubuntu-discuss 2020-03-26
<lotuspsychje> good morning
<Fuseteam> Nights
<lordievader> Good morning
<ducasse> good morning
<lotuspsychje> !translate
<ubot5> Translate Ubuntu into your own language, important translations that are needed are listed first. See https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/
<pragmaticenigma> !vertalen
<lotuspsychje> !support
<ubot5> The official ubuntu support channel is #ubuntu. Also see http://ubuntu.com/support and http://ubuntuforums.org and http://askubuntu.com
<lotuspsychje> should we swap the support url better with https://ubuntu.com/support/community-support ?
<kostkon> lotuspsychje, +1
<pragmaticenigma> it feels a little long and repetitive
<lotuspsychje> pragmaticenigma: yeah its true its rather a long url, but suits better for the regular user as help then ubuntu advantage?
<pragmaticenigma> is there a reason that the /support one isn't sufficient? perhaps shorten the proposed community to just /community-support ?
<lotuspsychje> pragmaticenigma: well the community support link, is now also the official source in the ubuntu-docs ? icon
<lotuspsychje> oh wait my bad
<lotuspsychje> there is a community support hyperlink on the advantage page nvm
<lotuspsychje> we are all good then
<pragmaticenigma> !yay
<ubot5> Glad you made it! :-)
<lotuspsychje> : )
<marcoagpinto> Heya
<kostkon> marcoagpinto, hi and bye jk
<marcoagpinto> :p
<oerheks> 1 cola â¬1, 2 cola â¬5 ....
<oerheks> hi marco
<marcoagpinto> hey hey
<marcoagpinto> oerheks!
<marcoagpinto> I have been working on the projects
<marcoagpinto> I believe I fixed the CIRCUMFIX Hunspell flag in my software today
<marcoagpinto> after weeks working on it or so
<oerheks> :-)
<marcoagpinto> not sure when my medical leave will end
<marcoagpinto> :)
<marcoagpinto> but it seems it will be renewed next week
<marcoagpinto> at least I am away from the supermarket
<marcoagpinto> I spend the days here in my bedroom working on the projects
<marcoagpinto> night
#ubuntu-discuss 2020-03-27
<lotuspsychje> good morning
<lordievader> Good morning
<ducasse> good morning
<oerheks> hello darling ... http://darlinghq.org/
<oerheks> = max osx emulator, like anbox and wine
<Fuseteam> wine is not an emulator :p
<oerheks> sure it is
<jeremy31> in denial
<sixwheeledbeast> acronyms that use themselves in there own acronyms need to burn in fire
<pragmaticenigma> example sixwheeledbeast ?
<sixwheeledbeast> wine
<pragmaticenigma> I think that one might have been a backronym... I'm going to go look that one up
<sixwheeledbeast> gnu
<sixwheeledbeast> backronyms ashould have more fire for intent
<pragmaticenigma> haha
<sixwheeledbeast> like yaml, burn
<pragmaticenigma> yet another markup language? I kind of thought that was kind of clever
<pragmaticenigma> better than Spector or heartbleed
<pragmaticenigma> i guess heartbleed wasn't an acronym
<sixwheeledbeast> i see no issue in acronyms but when you have to explain a backronym and people look at you blankly, burn...
<Fuseteam> just stating the name :P
<pragmaticenigma> !info apache
<ubot5> Package apache does not exist in bionic
<marcoagpinto> hey guys
<lordcirth_> !info apache2
<ubot5> apache2 (source: apache2): Apache HTTP Server. In component main, is optional. Version 2.4.29-1ubuntu4.13 (bionic), package size 92 kB, installed size 522 kB
<lordcirth_> pragmaticenigma, ^ it's apache2
<pragmaticenigma> thanks lordcirth_ ... I did figure it out... just decided not to flood the channel with my attempts :-)
<lotuspsychje> lovetruth: before my notice, another volunteer already pointed you to stop offtopic, but you denied it
<lovetruth> lotuspsychje, I came in the channel asking for help on something I have on my ubuntu 18.04 server. Someone told me I should try on some other channel, as they do not feel itÂ´s an ubuntu issue. So... I did as I was told. I joined the other 2 channels and asked there
<lotuspsychje> lovetruth: i never said you cant ask a question
<lovetruth> Then I wanted to answer to Â¨pulameaÂ¨ question as it seemed obvious which would be the right path to take, as being an experienced sys admin I simply pointed him to the right best practices.
<lotuspsychje> lovetruth: just in the #ubuntu support channel, try to divide support with discussions
<pragmaticenigma> lovetruth: In #ubuntu, we don't offer help on such significantly outdated versions of Ubuntu. It adds too much liability and takes away from people who have legitimate support issues for actual supported versions of Ubuntu.
<lovetruth> But, as it was normal in any discussion I have with anyone, I just told him before that that I normally feel offended by phrases like his nickname... then I answered
<lovetruth> yes, pragmaticenigma, I get that. Thanks for that :) ð
<pragmaticenigma> lovetruth: we don't call out people for their choices in screennames... if you have a particular grievence. you can go to #ubuntu-ops in the future and express your concerns there. Never do that in chat
<pragmaticenigma> TJ-: Why? seriously, just got them to stop
<lovetruth> I didnÂ´t recommend him anyway to use that outdated version... I even didnÂ´t offer him any help on that outdated version... I just told him to upgrade to a supported version, like 18.04 - and, of course, told him the right path to do it - to help him to not get stuck on some production server - to use stagging servers and trying to use same versions or closer versions
<lotuspsychje> lovetruth: and its not supported
<lotuspsychje> we have an !eolupgrade
<TJ-> pragmaticenigma: you obviously don't work in the real world. Reality is the server needs to remain active
<lordcirth_> TJ-, yes, but that doesn't mean we have to support it in #ubuntu
<pragmaticenigma> TJ-: I do work in the real world... the reality is that's an advanced approach and something no one in #ubuntu is going to be able to follow up on when you're not available
<TJ-> lordcirth_: that's not support it's a suggestion on reducing the attack surface
<pragmaticenigma> TJ-: The person you just suggeste that to already has a language barrier to overcome. You just jumped right in the middle of what we finally got them to move towards.
<lordcirth_> TJ-, and it's a good temporary solution, except they are incapable of executing it
<TJ-> pragmaticenigma: doing it isn't a support issue, that's up to the end user, but its an option if the application is stuck
<TJ-> lordcirth_: right, but that's for them to decide, not us
<lordcirth_> From past experience, something being beyond their skill has rarely stopped a user from trying it and pestering volunteers for help for weeks
<lotuspsychje> true that
<TJ-> Now what'll happen is the user will do-release-upgrade to 18.04, find that apache/web-app no longer works, and come back asking how to fix it since that was the advice given :)
<lotuspsychje> good idea from eol :p
<pragmaticenigma> TJ-: The problem is, they have already expressed that they're tied up in burocratic red tape... they'll be lucky to do anything except get the current box working
<TJ-> pragmaticenigma: well then they have to buy in expertise! nothing like making them dig into the pocket to think clearly
<lovetruth> TJ-, I agree with you. ItÂ´s a must as they do not seem to really understand the upgrade process... :)
<pragmaticenigma> It's Romania TJ- ... most of us have no idea what's going on there and looks like now... they're embargoed ... so I feel there is no hope
<TJ-> lovetruth: sounds like we're getting to watch a slow-motion train wreck... rather like the virus over-reaction
 * TJ- hands out the popcorn
 * lovetruth hands out the fried potatoes :))
<TJ-> I thought I was doing badly spending the last 8 days buried in kubernetes, juju, lxd all of which are terribly broken - found about 50 bugs so far even in basic config...
<TJ-> and most of you probably agree that if it stumps me there's something very wrong!
<marcoagpinto> guys!!!!!!
<marcoagpinto> >:) <- cola demon!
<pragmaticenigma> not now marcoagpinto
<marcoagpinto> ahhhh... sorry...
<pragmaticenigma> TJ-: yes, stumping you = very bad indeed
<lovetruth> so telling someone to stop, like a warning, and to hire some expert help is off-topic too on #ubuntu , I guess?
<pragmaticenigma> lovetruth: You didn't do that
<TJ-> pragmaticenigma: my colleague has been witnessing me taking out contracts on various developers :D
<TJ-> lovetruth: some of us get some lattitude due to longetivity and contributions
<pragmaticenigma> lovetruth: The comment " you might be on your way to kill your job there" is an opinion and was way out of line
<lovetruth> pragmaticenigma, did the first part - the warning :)) the second was coming, when you answered :)
<lovetruth> I am sorry... I just really felt bad for that guy over there :) ... something really bad could happen to him if all he said is true...
<pragmaticenigma> that's not something we have control over, and certainly doesn't help their situation either
<TJ-> lovetruth: personally I hate this artificial bureaucracy - often it creates more 'noise' than simply letting comments pass
<lovetruth> I mean - no backups, no cloning, why not stagging servers?... Really... basic best practices!... :)
<TJ-> lovetruth: it sounds like an April Fool's joke
<TJ-> IT department that sets policy but doesn't do... IT work ?
<pragmaticenigma> lovetruth: It's a foreign country to me... the picture painted by the news outlets would have me believe that they are severly oppressed by Russia, and Russia controls what can go in and out of Romania
<pragmaticenigma> So it is very possible they can't get the resources needed to do all that infrastructure build out. Until their attempted emancipation, they've been sheltered from the world by Russia. They're probably way behind when it comes to understanding what more modern societies have established as best practices for running servers
<frib> TJ-, what kind of express card do I need, one that connects to USB?
<TJ-> I think 'no backups' and 'not upgrading' aren't amongst those though
<pragmaticenigma> I'm sorry marcoagpinto ... it's been a interesting discussion going on in here regarding support
<pragmaticenigma> TJ-:  You would think... but a company I worked for in 2007 through 2011 didn't have backups
<pragmaticenigma> and they were a payment processing company
<TJ-> frib: you're misunderstanding. ExpressCard is an interface on laptops to allow an external device to connect to the PCIe bus. There's an external device/housing that provides a standard PCIe slot that can take standard PCIe adadpters. The ViDock does that
<TJ-> pragmaticenigma: scary!
<lovetruth> pragmaticenigma, I live in Romania :) I do IT work for many Companies - and some are using government funds... Yes, there are some old minds around here... but I managed to convince the people I work for to upgrade properly... :) - itÂ´s part of the IT job, actually... :)
<pulamea> pragmaticenigma: How dare you?! Romania is a modern liberal democracy, a member of the European Union, has a HDI of 0.816, and one of the most developed internet backbones in the entire world. And yet you are trying to imply that I originate from some backwoods hellhole dominated by Russia? Since the fall of communism in 1989, we are one of the
<pulamea> fastest developing western nations! For shame.
<frib> TJ-, ok I see. ExpressCard is the standard right?
<pragmaticenigma> TJ-: it wasn't until I got in there and decoupled a large amount of code from hardcoded passwords and account number handling that I finally got it so they could at least back up their code base
<TJ-> frib: yes... not so common on laptops since USB 3.0/3.1 came along
<frib> ViDock holds the GPU and can be connected using various PCI adapters?
<frib> TJ-, oh so I have to check if my laptop supports ExpressCard first?
<TJ-> frib: yes, it has a ribbon cable that has an ExpressCard/34 on it that is plugged into the laptop
<TJ-> frib: indeed
<frib> TJ-, how ?
<lovetruth> pulamea, Romania does have, indeed, very good backbone internet :) I live in Bucharest :)
<pragmaticenigma> pulamea: I prefaced my comment with "the news in my country paints the picture for me" ... I also mentioned I'm not aware of everything going on there, only what my local news outlets tell me... all of this prefaced in my comment. learn to read more carefully as I'm fully aware I have no idea what is really goin on in Romania right now
<TJ-> frib: it's a long thin slot. There are two widths... /54 and /34
<frib> oh no, I only have an sd card reader
<frib> and 4 usb3 ports
<lotuspsychje> pulamea: upgrade from what to what
<pragmaticenigma> lotuspsychje: this is 8.10 person
<frib> can viDock be connected some other way?
<lotuspsychje> i know pragmaticenigma :p
<pulamea> pragmaticenigma "They're probably way behind when it comes to understanding what more modern societies have established as best practices for running servers" << Looks like a statement of fact to me
<pulamea> pragmaticenigma Apologise please.
<pragmaticenigma> pulamea: Funny how just a moment ago you claimed to have limited english skills... now it seems to not be an issue. I'm now marking you as a troll... congrats
<pulamea> pragmaticenigma ??
<pulamea> pragmaticenigma All I'm asking for is an apology. And how dare you judge me based on my English skills
<lotuspsychje> pulamea: so..that update went real smooth heh?
<pulamea> pragmaticenigma This sort of appalling racism is not what I expected trying to seek help from the Ubuntu community, but I guess I should have seen it coming.
<TJ-> frib: what do you want this eGPU to do? just add more displays, or something that requires a lot of power for ML ?
<pulamea> lotuspsychje Yes is work very well thank you! :)  :)
<lotuspsychje> pulamea: what did you do exactly?
<frib> TJ-, gaming
<pulamea> lotuspsychje I am run sudo apt-get dist-upgrade, then typing password which is duteinpizdamatii123, and leave it to upgraded :)
<lotuspsychje> pulamea: and wich version are you on now?
<pulamea> lotuspsychje How I can check plesae?
<pulamea> *pleace
<lotuspsychje> lol
<TJ-> frib: it looks like the ViDocks are no longer made, but here's a link with a good overview https://www.amperordirect.com/pc/r-resources-audio-video/z-reference-ViDock4_Plus_Review.html
<lotuspsychje> pulamea: you dont know wich version you upgraded to?
<lovetruth> pulamea, cat /etc/lsb-release
<lovetruth> and maybe uname -a           would tell you the kernel
<marcoagpinto> guys?! What is the maximum size of icons in toolbars in Ubuntu?
<marcoagpinto> someone in the PureBasic forum was saying that OS APIs limit the size to 24x24 but I think it is not true
<pulamea> bash: lsb_release: command not found
<lovetruth> pulamea, that was wrong
<lordcirth_> pulamea, mentioning that some countries have less development and infrastructure is not racism.
<lovetruth> you have to type               cat /etc/lsb-release
<frib> TJ-, could it be this was the an earlier method and now people call them eGPUs?
<TJ-> frib: nope
<pulamea> cat: /etc/lsb-release: No such file or directory
<TJ-> eGPU is just short for external Graphical Processing Unint
<frib> so can't I just get one of those
<TJ-> pulamea: "cat /etc/issue"
<pulamea> lordcirth_ Ok I understand I just feel sometimes that maybe people is should a little more sensitivity about these things
<pulamea> TJ- cat: /etc/issue: No such file or directory
<TJ-> frib: it's not a 'thing' it is more a way to connect something externally, like eSATA is an external SATA interface
<TJ-> pulamea: so, broken system then. you'd best hire a *good* expert
<frib> looks lie its an external GPU
<frib> for example: https://www.newegg.com/p/pl?d=egpu
<lovetruth> pulamea, did it restart? after upgrade?
<TJ-> frib: right, but most of those require a Thunderbolt v3 interface
<pulamea> lovetruth Not sure
<lovetruth> also - did you cancel anything during the upgrade process?...
<frib> TJ-, yes i'm noticing that, but I also just read that usb 3.0 is more than capable of handling the bandwidth
<pulamea> This is what its says:
<pulamea> Last login: Fri Mar 27 17:51:00 on ttys000
<pulamea> admin@buchs-MacMini-35f6 ~ % cat /etc/lsb-release
<pulamea> cat: /etc/lsb-release: No such file or directory
<pulamea> admin@buchs-MacMini-35f6 ~ % cat /etc/issue
<pulamea> cat: /etc/issue: No such file or directory
<pulamea> admin@buchs-MacMini-35f6 ~ %
<lovetruth> pulamea, do you have physical access to it?... If it doesnÂ´t boot anymore - do you have access to some keyboard plugged into it, so you can choose something from the grub menu?...
<TJ-> frib: does the system have USB C connectors?
<TJ-> "MacMini"
<frib> No, it's an HP envy 15
<TJ-> definitely April Fools
<lovetruth> :)))
<pulamea> TJ- Oops my mistake
<TJ-> one of many
<pulamea> TJ- I have forget telnet
<frib> there's nothing that can use HDMI?
<lovetruth> pulamea, are you sure it still boots?...
<TJ-> frib: HDMI drives a display. There are USB video adapters but they're not designed to cope with gaming, only relatively low intensive 'office' type workloads
<pulamea> lovetruth Ok so telnet its connected now
<pulamea> lovetruth So ye its boosts
<lovetruth> good
<lovetruth> cat /etc/lsb-release
<pulamea> ????? Im typing the wrong letters are coming
<lovetruth> also, try the command            uptime
<pulamea> I can't its the wrong letters
<lovetruth> copy paste
<pulamea> For example if i'm press L it's come N
<frib> TJ-, i'm watching one guy who plugged a cable into the internal wifi slot
<pulamea> jay z.yjznox[p.n.ao.
<pulamea> ^ Thats cat etc relaese
<lovetruth> you have physical access to it?
<pulamea> lovetruth No this is telnet
<pulamea> lovetruth I am telnet from my XP machine
<lovetruth> and why Mac-Mini?!
<pulamea> lovetruth ??
<frib> TJ-, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7fO5uQeLZtU
<lovetruth> sure you are not typing from a Mac?...
<pulamea> lovetruth No this is XP
<lovetruth> are you using putty or the windows xp telnet client? Try Putty
<pulamea> lovetruth Mac mini is other PC that i'm on for use IRC at the moment
<lovetruth> you can netcat from Mac to that machine, if you are in the same network
<pulamea> lovetruth Do you have link to putty?
<lovetruth> with nc IP_address
<lovetruth> itÂ´s https://www.putty.org/ ... Do not trust XPÂ´s telnet client to connect to your ubuntu machine. Had bad experiences with that.
<pulamea> Lovetruth Thank you
<pulamea> Oh :(
<pulamea> Its say:
<pulamea> Internet Explorer cannot display the webpage
<pulamea> What you can try:
<pulamea> Diagnose Connection Problems
<pulamea> More information
<lovetruth> try https://the.earth.li/~sgtatham/putty/latest/w32/putty.exe
<pulamea> lovetruth Same message again
<lovetruth> you have total commander?... Man... everything you have there is so outdated!... :)
<pulamea> Total commander?
<pulamea> Ok now telnet is work
<lovetruth> output of uname -a?
<pulamea> It's say:
<pulamea> C:\>uname -a
<pulamea> Bad command or file name
<lovetruth> pulamea, you have no telnet to ubuntu :) ... Really - this is aprilÂ´s fool - right?... :))
<TJ-> lovetruth: well, considering pulamea  is in the UK on the '3' cellular network... what do you think?
<lovetruth> TJ-, I checked that too :)) but it could be some VPN or something ... :)
<pulamea> TJ- No I am only on 1 cellular network not 3... sorry for confusion
<TJ-> lovetruth: over the cellular network? unlikely
<TJ-> the netblock is a /24 located in the UK
<pulamea> Try check now, I think should be better :)
<TJ-> origin is on AS60339 https://ipinfo.io/AS60339
<pulamea> I think I have fixed it, I don't know why it would said UK, I am not able to go to that because of the Berxit :)
<TJ-> lovetruth: we always get these when school's out
<pulamea> TJ- I am not school, I am government worker
<TJ-> pulamea: don't tell me, you're self-isolated at home and your name is Boris!
<pulamea> TJ- No sorry
<pulamea> TJ- My name Alexandru Petrescu
<pulamea> TJ- I am not speaking with Boris as he is chubby blond nonce
<lovetruth> pulamea, you hate PSD?... :)
<pulamea> TJ- And as well he teld me his government its better than mine :(
<pulamea> lovetruth: Yes. XCF is a much better format.
<TJ-> I sense the ban-hammer falling from a great height
<daftykins> i don't, that'd require ops that do their jobs
<pulamea> I AM THE OPS!!!
<daftykins> well you achieve about as much
<pulamea> daftykins Between you and I, I think I've actually achieved more today.
<lovetruth> pulamea: you should have better regard for people. Then you can start to think as you being from Romania. Romania deserves more... :)
<pragmaticenigma> oh geeze
#ubuntu-discuss 2020-03-28
<lotuspsychje> good morning
<ducasse> good morning
<akem> Heya.
<lotuspsychje> !bug
<ubot5> If you find a bug in Ubuntu or any of its official !flavors, please report it using the command Â« ubuntu-bug <package> Â» - See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ReportingBugs for other ways to report bugs.
<lotuspsychje> a nice new edited wiki by paulw2u https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Responses
<pragmaticenigma> TJ-, yes... lets promote anti-learning patterns by telling someone to do everything themselves... so they make assumptions about things that are wrong and believe everything is isolative
<TJ-> what!?
<TJ-> that is so wrong-headed
<pragmaticenigma> That is how I just interpreted your statement in main
<TJ-> We have a new user who is self-investigating how the plumbing of commands works and needs additional pointers to narrow down their focus, that is to be supported and encouraged
<lotuspsychje> aint we all struggling sometimes, looking for solutions ourselfs
<pragmaticenigma> That user also explained the professor is giving them a bunch of commands they don't understand... which is why I encouraged them to speak to the professor... the teacher may not realize that the class isn't as savvy about the stuff they're being taught... and then you go and contradict that statement
<lotuspsychje> then we are glad theres a community closeby to help
<TJ-> also, it's not a very welcoming response for a 1st timer to arrinve in #ubtunu and immediately be told to go somewhere else
<pragmaticenigma> I'm not going over that topic again
<TJ-> pragmaticenigma: no, I said its an opportunity for self-learning. This person can then share what they've learned with their cohort AND their professsor
<TJ-> it's not either/or, its both
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: but the user suggested himself to go look for another channel
<pragmaticenigma> That isn't how I perceived it, since the message was directed specifically at me, as if to correct what I said
<TJ-> I said "also"
<lotuspsychje> i think jaako skared him off a bit suggesting google
<TJ-> lotuspsychje: indeed, and I gave them a couple of suggestions but then it appears they were talking about "apt update" so it'd be appropriate in #ubuntu
<pragmaticenigma> Linguiestically... prefixing a message with someone's name gives the message a tone that it's directed specifically at them. given the context of the entire converstation, I took that to imply it was corrective. Not placing my name in front of the comment, I would have perceived your also as constructive and additive
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: im not disputing your method in this case
<lotuspsychje> just wanted to point pragmaticenigma didnt really told him to go look elsewhere?
<pragmaticenigma> I've butted heads on that topic before... yes, it's important to understand the nature of someone's problem before redirecting them. It's also important to recognize that the line of questioning is not appropriate for the channel, and the conversation should be moved to a more appropriate venue.
<lotuspsychje> i also support dividing things in the right channels
<lotuspsychje> but scripting issues on an ubuntu VM is allowed here right?
<pragmaticenigma> what do you mean lotuspsychje ?
<lotuspsychje> pragmaticenigma: i mean the case of ConfusedTranslat is allowed to support
<pragmaticenigma> I take no issue with confused seeking help understanding commands, i see it as being no different than a support question where we tell them to execute a command and they want to know what it means first
<pragmaticenigma> the difference is the suggestion of the command came from someone I must have on "ignore" ;-)
#ubuntu-discuss 2020-03-29
<lotuspsychje> good morning
<ducasse> good morning
<lotuspsychje> PaulW2U: i like your edited https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Responses congrats!
<PaulW2U> lotuspsychje: Well, I just update it when it needs doing. A lot of good work went on before any of my updates.
<lotuspsychje> cool PaulW2U
<lotuspsychje> very useful info to help bug and debug
<PaulW2U> Yes. I have my own version of that page which is better suited to the things that I get involved with. :)
<marcoagpinto> Hello!!!!!!!
<marcoagpinto> The cola demon!
<kostkon> with or without sugar?
<jeremy31> decaffeinated too
<marcoagpinto> guys!
<marcoagpinto> >:)
