#launchpad-meeting 2006-06-27
* Starting logfile irclogs/launchpad-meeting.log
(fabbione/#launchpad-meeting) test
* Starting logfile irclogs/launchpad-meeting.log
#launchpad-meeting 2006-06-29
<SteveA> https://launchpad.canonical.com/PrivateBranches
* ..[topic/#launchpad-meeting:SteveA] : public launchpad meeting channel
<stub> Waaaay offtopic
<stub> Porno name for 'Launchpad'
<spiv> Raunchpad?
<lifeless> Raucnh Pad
<lifeless> need the second syllable
<stub> Blewpint.launchpad.net
<jamesh> I just lost my connection.  Could you invite me again?
<jamesh> SteveA: ^^ ?
<SteveA> ok
<jamesh> thanks
<jamesh> select * from pg_locks where pid = pg_backend_pid();
<spiv> SteveA: that was fast
<lifeless> SteveA: dyson needs some small love. Is it possible that the infrastructure team can do that ?
<lifeless> https://launchpad.net/products/launchpad/+bug/51168
<SteveA> james has agreed to do this
<SteveA> stub mentioned that dyson should be made more robust
<lifeless> agreed and agreed. thanks jamesh
<SteveA> stub: on pagetests...
<SteveA> i wonder if we can do a GET vs POST thing, and use a r/o connection for GETs
<SteveA> then we could always rollback in the publisher on a GET
<SteveA> and then not need to do fancy shit when pagetesting
<stub> Thats a thought
<SteveA> need to be a bit careful about not rolling back session changes
<stub> Hmm... but we want to make GET requests use a read only database connection anyway, so we know no changes are made using that.
<SteveA> yes
<SteveA> but i wouldn't want to rely on that convention for the pagetests
<SteveA> i would prefer to rely on "no commits have been made"
<SteveA> although i suppose session stuff screws that a bit
<SteveA> although resetting the session DB should be cheaper than resetting the main DB
<stub> We don't care about updates to the session database
<SteveA> if you insist
<SteveA> sounds a tad dodgy
<SteveA> we just don't use sessions much in pagetests
<SteveA> it's almost all basic auth
<stub> We do for cookie auth and notifications, many of which are tested for.
<stub> However, I decided that we will never worry about resetting the session database in the tests because if you care, you are using sessions incorrectly.
<SteveA> ok.  i hope that assumption exists somewhere more concrete than this irc channel and your head
<stub> I think there are comments to that effect in the guts of the database reset code ;)
* stub doesn't check, just in case ;)
<SteveA> i'd expect some garish ascii-art on server start-up
<spiv> SteveA: be careful what you wish for...
<lifeless> aacows
<SteveA> stub, spiv, jamesh: I mailed a call summary to the list.  You have Action Items.
<SteveA> http://www.fatalexception.org/action_item.html
#launchpad-meeting 2008-06-24
<barry> #startmeeting
<thumper> hi barry
<thumper> I'll have to duck out a bit early
<barry> thumper: np, we can make it short
<thumper> barry: you'll be happy to know I'm working on branch merge queues
<mwhudson> me
<barry> welcome to this weeks' asiapac reviewers meeting.  who's here today?
<barry> thumper: excellent!
<spiv> Hello.
<barry> spiv: hi
<barry> mwhudson: hi
<barry> jml: ping?
<jml> hi
<barry> jamesh: hi
<barry> jml: hi
<jamesh> hi
<barry> [TOPIC] agenda
<barry> ok, screw you mootbot
<barry>  * Roll call
<barry>  * Next meeting
<barry>  * Action items
<barry>  * Queue status
<barry>  * Mentoring update
<barry>    * new recruits?  (leonardr, abentley, mars)
<barry>  * Review process
<thumper> barry: mootbot isn't listening
<barry>   * (intellectronica) JS-related templates should be tested (as much as possible).
<barry>   * (barry) don't assign GQ after on-call session?
<barry> thumper: like a child in front of a wii
<barry>  * Next meeting
<barry> same time next week?
<spiv> barry: also like an adult in front a wii...
<barry> spiv: :)
<mwhudson> barry: sure
<barry> i may miss next week though.  i'm not sure yet, but i might be picking my wife up from the airport at this time
<barry> i'll send an email if i have to switch/cancel
<thumper> ok
<barry>  * Action items
<barry>  * mwhudson to start discussion on page test purpose
 * thumper didn't file that bug
<mwhudson> didn't do this mostly through slackness
<mwhudson> will do it before the next meeting
<barry> k, we'll just continue them both ;)
<barry> there was definitely some hearty discussion on both subjects at the last ameu so i think these are good things to start talking about
<barry>  * Queue status
<mwhudson> i noticed flacoste said something that made me aaargh
<barry> not much from me here.  any comments on your side?
<barry> mwhudson: what?
<mwhudson> the pqm queue is more of a bother than the review queue at the moment
<barry> mwhudson: definitely.  pqm needs some serious love
<barry> it's driving people crazy
<jml> mwhudson: is that what flacoste said?
<mwhudson> <flacoste>      sinzui: testing template in doc/*-pages is not our standard, although it might make a good idea
 * thumper stabs doc/*-pages
<mwhudson> "aaaaaargh, no, doc/* should be documentation!"
<jml> mwhudson: +1
<thumper> should be browser/tests in unit tests!!!
<mwhudson> but anyway, --> mailing list
<barry> +1
<jml> thumper: +1
<barry> yeah -> ml
<mwhudson> barry: (about the queues again) to be fair, it's mostly not pqm
<mwhudson> it's our test suite
<barry> well, there /are/ issues with pqm losing branches, sending false success emails, etc
<mwhudson> though the disappearing merges thing seems to be a bzrlib/pqm thing
<mwhudson> yes
<mwhudson> btw, mthaddon and lifeless uncovered some clues about that this morning
<barry> do tell!
<thumper> thank <insert deity here>
<mwhudson> barry: it's something to do with autopacks
<jamesh> so every tenth commit disappears or something?
<spiv> That's Weird(TM).
<barry> wow
<mwhudson> when pqm pushes to devpad after a successful test suite, it can trigger an autopack
<mwhudson> and sometimes 'things go wrong"
<thumper> oh FFS
<mwhudson> for example: https://pastebin.canonical.com/6500/
<mwhudson> so there are two bugs really, that this happens (a bzr problem)
<mwhudson> and that the user visible symptom is so mysterious (a pqm problem)
<mwhudson> by chance, beuno had the same problem pushing to launchpad today
<barry> mwhudson: can we turn autopacks off?
<spiv> Not without hacking bzr.
<barry> :-(
<mwhudson> and we probably managed to grab enough data to reproduce
<mwhudson> barry: now you know as much as me, we should get lifeless to summarize what he knows to the list
<mars> mwhudson, related question: lifeless was wondering if PQM was sending emails - he hadn't seen an exception email for a long time.  Was it sending them?
<barry> [ACTION] barry will ask lifeless to summarize what he knows about The PQM Mystery to the ml
<jamesh> autopacking is desirable when it works
<mwhudson> mars: yes, it seems that they disappeared somewhere in his own email setup
<barry> btw, do any of you have any thoughts about pqm groking looms?
<mars> mwhudson, sorry, he was wondering about PQM *error emails*
<mars> ah
<mars> mwhudson, cool
<mwhudson> mars: probably easier to ask him than me :)
<jamesh> barry: if PQM grokked loom threads, sure.
<jml> barry: I think it would be good to clarify what that meant.
<barry> really, i just want to pqm-submit a loomed branch
<thumper> barry: I think we'd just have to have the loom plugin on the pqm instance
<jml> barry: like jamesh is getting at, we probably want to land a thread of a loom, rather than a whole loom
<thumper> barry: and fix the push bug
<jamesh> just loading the plugin would probably give you "merge which ever thread was active when I just published to devpad"
<spiv> If a) PQM received merge directives, and b) had the loom plugin installed
<spiv> Then it would Just Work.
<barry> jml: interesting, that's not quite how i use looms, but i can see what you mean
<barry> it gets tricky, eh?
<thumper> jamesh: there is a bug where push over bzr+ssh doesn't work properly
<barry> let me ask a meta-question: are we submitting bug reports for these issues (he ask, knowing that he has not done so)
<jml> barry: sometimes we are.
<thumper> bzr-loom product
<jml> barry: I file bugs on bzr-loom fairly often :)
<barry> :)
<barry> cool, thanks
<thumper> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/bzr-loom/+bug/201613
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 201613 in bzr-loom "pushing looms does not work properly" [Critical,Triaged]
<jamesh> having PQM do merge directives might be the way forward
<jml> yeah.
<thumper> I think Odd_Blok1 may be looking at this
<thumper> *may*
<thumper> and moving along...
<jamesh> of course, the way merge directives specify the revision ID to merge might cause a bit of havoc with the way we use PQM, pushing fixes after submitting the merge
<barry> i'm just afraid that pqm is currently hampering productivity (it is mine) so we should spend some Real Time fixing things
<thumper> jamesh: right now, we'll have the same problem with my current work
<barry> jamesh: yeah, i kind of wish we couldn't do that, although i've used it to my advantage before
<thumper> jamesh: however I'm thinking of a work around
<spiv> jamesh: well, the proper fix to that is having actual queue management
<barry> sorry for getting off track... back to the agenda
<barry>  * Mentoring update
<barry> folks were generally positive in ameu about inviting new reviewers.  gmb, intellectronica, and i all offered to mentor after 2.0 is out
<barry> i think abentley will be the first invitee
<thumper> abentley said he is happy to have a go after 2.0
<barry> with leonardr and mars following
<barry> thumper: great
<barry> any other thoughts here?
<barry>  * Review process
<barry>   * (intellectronica) JS-related templates should be tested (as much as possible).
<barry> that's a new one, so i don't know much about where tom's going with it
<barry> but i can guess that as we use more js, we need to find a way to test it
<thumper> right
<thumper> I was bitten by this recently
<thumper> the pagetests passed
<thumper> but oopsed in reality
<barry> that's not good :)
<jamesh> Xvfb + firefox + AppServerLayer + ?
<jml> can we find out what google do?
<mwhudson> i wonder if it involves selenium and a very large number of machines
<jamesh> jml: the google web toolkit they released a while ago had "compile java code to javascript"
<jamesh> and test with java tools
<mars> barry, I think I know
<jml> hmm.
<mars> about intellectronica's idea
<barry> mars: go ahead
<mwhudson> it is quite hard to google for things about google
<jml> jamesh: I don't see how that gets you a way to test "how does this work in firefox"
<mars> the iframe bug, and the rollback issue from edge with bad JS ruining everything, was a result of us not testing any JavaScript.
<barry> yep.  it's only going to get more serious as we move forward
<mars> testing JS with JSUnit or something similar would at least give us an idea of which code could cause failure if it doesn't load properly.
<mars> barry, exactly
<barry> anyway, we'll see what comes up on wednesday
<jml> jsunit would definitely be a step in the right direction
<jml> and you can run it from your python test suite using subunit
 * jml did something like that at divmod.
<mars> interesting
<mars> it may not even take extensive testing, just 'what happens if X bombs out'
<barry> indeed.  jml if you want to post some of your experience to the ml, that would be great
<jml> the big issue that stopped us from using it more was that spidermonkey had no dom.
<mars> in this case, inlinehelp.js error'd out, and took the portlets expansion code with it :(
<jml> barry: sure. I'll find out what the divmodders are doing for js testing nowadays and post something.
 * jml might have a spare moment to do that soon.
<barry> i'll just add that 1) we need a more extensive js coding guideline, and 2) reviewing js is difficult!
<barry> jml: thanks
<barry> moving on...
<barry>   * (barry) don't assign GQ after on-call session?
<barry> so, i know it's our policy that we should be assigning any left over GQ branches at the end of our on-call, but i think maybe we should stop that practice
<barry> i think instead, we should just leave them there for the next day's ocr
<mwhudson> i think that probably makes sense
<barry> thing is, i think few people have time to do reviews outside their ocr
<thumper> sounds reasonable
<mwhudson> if someone assigns a branch to me, i can guarantee that i wouldn't notice unless i got emailed about it too
<barry> i run bac's pr script, but still, i know what you mean
<mwhudson> jml just sms-ed me to say that his machine just hung
<barry> okay cool.  i run all the crazy ideas by you guys first.  we'll see what the ameus have to say
<barry> dang
<barry> well, i'm done anyway.  anything from y'all?
<mwhudson> nothing leaps to mind
<barry> #endmeeting
 * thumper has to go now
<thumper> barry: good timing
<barry> thanks everyone, have a good week
<barry> :)
<jml> back.
#launchpad-meeting 2008-06-25
<sinzui> Well
 * sinzui stumbles his way to the chair
<sinzui> == Agenda ==
<sinzui>  * Roll call
<sinzui>  * Next meeting
<sinzui>  * Action items
<sinzui>  * Queue status
<sinzui>  * Mentoring update
<sinzui>  * Review process
<sinzui>   * (intellectronica) JS-related templates should be tested (as much as possible).
<sinzui>   * (barry) don't assign GQ after on-call session, let next ocr take them
<sinzui> Welcome to this week's AMEU reviewers meeting
 * sinzui wonders if he is alone
<salgado> me
<intellectronica> me
<bac> me
<bigjools> me
<salgado> you're not!
<sinzui> me
<allenap> me
<BjornT> me
<bigjools> I think we were waiting for the roll call!
<bigjools> schwuk sends his apologies
<sinzui> bigjools: so was I, yet I expect a few premature mes
<bigjools> his wife is ill so he had to do the school run
<sinzui> barry and gmb are excused
<sinzui> we seem to be short a few people
<bac> EdwinGrubbs: ping
<flacoste> me
<EdwinGrubbs> me
<flacoste> danilos: ping
<danilos> me
<danilos> flacoste: thanks
<sinzui> == Next meeting ==
<sinzui> Today +7 days?
<jtv> me
<sinzui> Silence is compliance.
<intellectronica> silence is golden
<sinzui> Next meeting of the AMEU reviewers is in 7 days.
<sinzui> == Agenda ==
<sinzui>  * Roll call
<sinzui>  * Next meeting
<sinzui>  * Action items
<sinzui>  * Queue status
<sinzui>  * Mentoring update
<sinzui>  * Review process
<sinzui>   * (intellectronica) JS-related templates should be tested (as much as possible).
<sinzui>   * (barry) don't assign GQ after on-call session, let next ocr take them
<sinzui> bugger
<sinzui> === Outstanding Actions ===
<sinzui>  * intellectronica to file bug on lint issue regarding elementtree import
<sinzui> I have not seen this gub
<intellectronica> sorry, i haven't done it yet
<sinzui> Shall I keep this item for next week?
<sinzui>  * mwhudson to start discussion on page test purpose
<sinzui> I have not seen this discussion. I look forward to it.
<intellectronica> sinzui: please, yes
<sinzui>  * thumper to submit a bug for moving ftests contents to tests
<sinzui> /me has not see this bug either
<sinzui>  * gmb to update PythonStyleGuide for long argument lists (use The Salgado Way)
<sinzui> gmb did complete this
<sinzui>  * barry to ask lifeless to summarize what he knows about the PQM Mysteries (e.g. autopacking bug losing branches)
<sinzui> Not done.
<sinzui>  * jml to find out how divmodders test their javascript
<sinzui> Not done
<sinzui> === Proposed items ===   * Include file-by-file summary in review template (schwuk)
<intellectronica> it's a nice thing to do if you can, but i think demanding it for every submission would be cruel
<sinzui> schwuk: are you proposing a change to the cover letter in lpreview?
<intellectronica> i think he's not here?...
<sinzui> That is right
<flacoste> yeah for large branch it makes sense
 * sinzui drinks more coffee
<flacoste> but i don't think making this mandatory is a good idea
<sinzui> A summary of each file is nice, but I sometimes do it by feature/fix
<sinzui> I think the reason we might want a summary by file is because there changes outside the feature/bug that were made, or the connection to the feature was non-obvious
<sinzui> If that is the case, we might just remind the developer in the cover letter template that the non-obvious changes should be listed
<jtv> "Go through your diff and..."
<sinzui> That is what I do
 * sinzui has written novellas.
<bigjools> for big changes it really helps
<intellectronica> we do have a cover letter template for non-trivial submissions
<intellectronica> perhaps we should encourage people to you use it
<intellectronica> ï»¿me included, i don't i've used it more than once or twice
<BjornT> i think a summary per file on works for certain type of changes. often, if you write it per-file, the cover letter won't flow as nicely as if you write one summary for all files.
 * sinzui agrees with BjornT
<bigjools> where certain type = big?
<BjornT> having the modified files listed in the template would help with remembering non-related changes
<bigjools> when I write my cover letters I usually have the diff open in another window to remind me what to say
<sinzui> Changes that are subtle, spanning many files might not be big
<bigjools> common sense should prevail
<BjornT> bigjools: not necessarily. it's more like if you do non-related changes (which we shouldn't encourage people to do)
<sinzui> There are also changes that cascade though tests and templates.
<bigjools> it really depends on the change - it should be encouraged if it's a complicated change, otherwise it's not so useful
<sinzui> Should regard listing changes as a best practice when the reason for the change are not obvious?
<sinzui> s/should/Should we/
<intellectronica> something like that, yes
<sinzui> Do we document that on the wiki, or amend the cover letter template in review-submit
<intellectronica> i don't think we should make this change in review-submit
 * sinzui favours a wiki addition and an email to launchpad.
<intellectronica> i can amend the cover letter template on the wiki, and we can remind devs that it is a good reference for an elaborate cover letter, when the situation calls for one
<sinzui> I think that is a good start
<schwuk> me
<schwuk> sorry - got held up
<sinzui> schwuk: we were concluding your proposal to Include file-by-file summary in review template
<schwuk> sinzui: just been catching up
<schwuk> sinzui: I think everything has been covered, so special to add. The per-file summary helps on large changes, but there should still be a general summary of the changes.
<sinzui> schwuk: thank you. I agree
<sinzui> == Queue status  ==
 * sinzui refreshes the page
<intellectronica> sinzui: ftr there's an action for me, above
<intellectronica> sinzui: intellectronica to amend cover letter template to include a per-file summary section and write an email to the list
<sinzui> intellectronica: thank you for reminding me of my responsabilities
<sinzui> I will update the agenda for next week to include this
<sinzui> I think the queue looks fine. mars needs to find a reviewer I think
<mars> yep
<sinzui> schwuk:  you have a missing branch in merge-conditional status.
<intellectronica> i probably won't take any more reviews today after what i've got in the queue, so there may be some time on the gq at day's end
<intellectronica> don't know about allenap
<sinzui> schwuk: did you land it and remove the directory?
<allenap> If I have time left, I'll look at the general queue for things to do.
<schwuk> sinzui: possibly - I cleaned up branches on devpad when they were complaining about space
<sinzui> salgado: you have broken up Mark's branch. Should it be in needs-review?
<salgado> sinzui, no, I'll remove it from there
<schwuk> sinzui: That branch was landed.
<sinzui> schwuk: thank you
<sinzui> Does anyone have anything else to say about the queue?
<sinzui> ï»¿== Mentoring update  ==
<sinzui> Does anyone have something to say about this?
<sinzui> == Review process ==
<sinzui>   * (intellectronica) JS-related templates should be tested (as much as possible).
<intellectronica> so
<intellectronica> we don't test javascript code
<intellectronica> but there's quite a lot we can do in our normal test suite
<intellectronica> by testing the interaction between javascript and templates, for example
<intellectronica> testing for the IDs of elements, testing for the presence of elements within a deeper structure, testing for the presence of a css class, etc'...
<sinzui> testing that the script is present, that is contains the expected functions?
<intellectronica> sinzui: indeed
<intellectronica> also, make sure you run the ui locally and watch for javascript errors and the behaviour of javascript code
<mars> and use FireBug ;)
<intellectronica> finally, make sure you read javascript code with the same critical eye you read python code with
<intellectronica> if you're unsure about how something works, ask questions
<sinzui> firebug is not FF3 compatible
<jtv> intellectronica: some browsers are also able to show warnings & errors in JS.  Maybe test with those?
 * sinzui has fallen back to developer tools
<intellectronica> think about defensive code. how can it fail? what will happen when it does? has everything been done to mitigate the effects of a failure
<intellectronica> sinzui: there's an ubuntu package with a working firebug, mainained by asac
<bac> i'm the self-appointed guardian angel of Safari.  if you review a branch with lots of JS changes let me know and i'll be glad to test the UI in Safari.
<intellectronica> jtv: i think all browsers can show that, to some extent. but the most important thing is simply to look for breakage
<mars> bac, cool, that will help
<schwuk> sinzui: there's a beta of firebug that works with FF3
<intellectronica> bac: great to know. i think allenap and mpt too have an apple close to hand
<sinzui> My concern about testing for ids and classes, is that those might be variables in the script. So we are reduced to knowing that a script demands an id or class, and checking the browser.content
<intellectronica> sinzui: perhaps we should add some helper functions to make it easier to test things in <script>
<intellectronica> best is probably just to add such functions when the need arises, anyway
<mpt> I don't usually bring my Mac to work any more
<sinzui> intellectronica: I was thinking of extracting the getByID and $() to make a list of items to look for in the content
<intellectronica> b.t.w it's possible to run both IE and Safari on ubuntu, if you're curious
<sinzui> The mac is not important. Wenkit is
<sinzui> WebKit is
<sinzui> we can used the next gen of epiphany
<intellectronica> anyway, i don't think we have too much trouble with platform/coverage
<intellectronica> i think it's more a matter of reviewing the javascript code itself
<bigjools> we're over time - is there much more?
<intellectronica> and reviewing templates, which may be related to javascript code, even when it isn't obvious
<sinzui> bigjools: one more item
<mpt> sinzui, or Midori
<mpt> (which has the advantage of being in the Hardy repository already)
<sinzui> mpt: ! I did not know that
<sinzui> intellectronica: I think we need a list of what to review. Checking for how/where a script connects to the page is doable by all of us.
<intellectronica> sinzui: i'm happy to compile a list and put it on the wiki
<sinzui> knowing when to use a library (like Mochikit) instead of doing writing your own block/function is another matter
<mars> sinzui, yes, but that should be taken care of in the pre-implementation call, no?
<intellectronica> sinzui: yeah, that could all be described as "is this the best way to write this feature"
<intellectronica> not much different from python. it's just that we need to make sure we pay attention to this in the review
<sinzui> intellectronica: Please compile the list, something is better than nothing. It will definitely help prevent a bug from some months ago that happened when the id the script required was not present.
<intellectronica> and the one from last week ;)
<intellectronica> sinzui: will do
<sinzui> mars: it should, I think the issue is we do not have the JS experience in reviewing that we need given the script that has been written this year
<sinzui> * (barry) don't assign GQ after on-call session, let next ocr take them
<sinzui> barry is not here to explain his command. I intend to honor it.
<sinzui> I don't have anything to say on this matter. If know one else has, I think this meeting is finished.
<sinzui> 5
<sinzui> 4
<sinzui> 3
<sinzui> 2
<sinzui> 1
<sinzui> So ends the meeting
<intellectronica> thanks sinzui, great chairing
<schwuk> Thanks sinzui
<sinzui> Thank you all for playing
<bigjools> thanks sinzui
#launchpad-meeting 2008-06-26
<Tanya> halo
<Rinchen> hello MootBot
<Rinchen> nice of you to join us
<thumper> Rinchen: now what would be good was if MootBot could reply nicely
* Rinchen changed the topic of #launchpad-meeting to:  Launchpad Meeting Grounds | Channel logs: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | Meeting Logs: http://www.novarata.net/mootbot/meetinglogs/
<Rinchen> mtg logs have changed
 * Rinchen sighs.
<Rinchen> #startmeeting
<Rinchen> Welcome to this week's Launchpad development meeting. For the next 45 minutes or so, we'll be coordinating Launchpad development.
<MootBot> Meeting started at 13:00. The chair is Rinchen.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<Rinchen> [TOPIC] Roll Call
<MootBot> New Topic:  Roll Call
<mrevell> me
<rockstar> me
<Rinchen> me!
<leonardr> me
<al-maisan> me
<mars> me
<adeuring> me
<schwuk> me
<bac> me
<sinzui> me
<barry> me
<cprov-afk> me
<flacoste> me
<BjornT> me
<mpt> me
<bigjools> me
<statik> me
<Rinchen> allenap and gmb send their apologies today
<intellectronica> me
<Rinchen> kiko-fud, SteveA_
<kiko-fud> me
<kiko> or course!
<Rinchen> matsubara, ?
<matsubara> me
<abentley> me
<salgado> me
<Rinchen> releases team is here
<flacoste> foundations is here
<Rinchen> bugs appears to be here
<Rinchen> thumper, ?
<Rinchen> abentley, ?
<kiko> tim's here, yeah
<rockstar> abentley me'd
<Rinchen> ah, good thanks
<Rinchen> EdwinGrubbs, ?
<abentley> Yeah, me
<EdwinGrubbs> me
<Rinchen> [TOPIC] Agenda
<MootBot> New Topic:  Agenda
<Rinchen>  * Next meeting
<Rinchen>  * Actions from last meeting
<Rinchen>  * Oops report (Matsubara)
<Rinchen>  * Critical Bugs (Rinchen)
<Rinchen>  * Bug tags
<Rinchen>  * Operations report (mthaddon/herb)
<Rinchen>  * DBA report (stub)
<Rinchen>  * Sysadmin requests (Rinchen)
<Rinchen>  * New packages required (salgado)
<Rinchen>  * A top user-affecting issue (mrevell)
<mthaddon> me
<Rinchen>  * Doc Team report (mrevell)
<herb> me
<Rinchen> [TOPIC] Next meeting
<MootBot> New Topic:  Next meeting
<kiko> I won't be here!
<Rinchen> same time same place kiko?
<Rinchen> ok, so it's me and the rest of the team minus you and gmb
<Rinchen> [AGREED] Next meeting same time, place on 3 July - kiko and gmb send apologies
<MootBot> AGREED received:  Next meeting same time, place on 3 July - kiko and gmb send apologies
<Rinchen> [TOPIC] Actions from last meeting
<MootBot> New Topic:  Actions from last meeting
<Rinchen> [AGREED] None
<MootBot> AGREED received:  None
<Rinchen> [TOPIC] Oops report (Matsubara)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Oops report (Matsubara)
<matsubara> Sorry, haven't prepared an oops report. I'll follow up with individuals.
<Rinchen> boo hiss
<kiko> !
<kiko> well
<kiko> I can make one up on the fly
<kiko> I have one for bac and EdwinGrubbs: OOPS-907S114
<ubottu> https://devpad.canonical.com/~jamesh/oops.cgi/907S114
<kiko> I believe it's fixed, but is it really?
<thumper> me
<kiko> I have a fix for the RDF timeouts in my tree, will try and finish tonight
<matsubara> kiko: I think that one is the one bac fixed as one of his BAD items on the test plan
<kiko> very good
<kiko> thumper,         6 /    0  BranchMergeProposal:+request-review
<kiko> thumper, six timeouts on staging is really high
<bac> kiko: actually that OOPS occurred during integration testing with the salesforce proxy -- an error on the far side.
<kiko> bac, will it happen in production, though, and should it?
<matsubara> bac, so that's not bug 242422?
<kiko> thumper, can you look into that and see if it can be improved?
<ubottu> matsubara: Bug 242422 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/242422 is private
<thumper> kiko: that was me seeing if the storm branch with __contains__ was there
<bac> kiko:  it has been fixed in my integration work with surfous
<kiko> thumper, oh, okay -- it works today?
<kiko> bac, okay.
<bac> matsubara: no, not part of bug 242422
<thumper> kiko: I haven't tested today, only been awake for a few minutes
<ubottu> bac: Bug 242422 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/242422 is private
<kiko> thumper, okay, if you could test I'm your fan
<kiko> when you have a sec
<kiko> BjornT, does your branch with +packages improvements live anywhere where somebody else could pick it up?
<thumper> kiko: yes, works today
<Rinchen> kiko just gave us a new t-shirt design "I'm your fan"
<kiko> awesome
<BjornT> kiko: well, it's landed
<Rinchen> anything else kiko on oopses?
<kiko> when appropriate!
<kiko> BjornT, OOPS-907S177 :-/
<ubottu> https://devpad.canonical.com/~jamesh/oops.cgi/907S177
<kiko> BjornT, I thought there were additional fixes though
<BjornT> kiko: someone could certainly pick it up. there is still a soyuz task open for the bug
<kiko> BjornT, do you have any work done on it that you could share, or is that it?
<danilos> (just in, jtv's network is down, but he smsed me to say that log(0) fix is awaiting review)
<kiko> barry, will you have a fix for OOPS-907S44 by monday?
<ubottu> https://devpad.canonical.com/~jamesh/oops.cgi/907S44
<kiko> thanks danilos
<kiko> danilos, log(0) fix? :)
<barry> kiko: i'm working on it!
<kiko> barry, that's not what I asked :)
<barry> kiko: i know :)
<kiko> heh
<kiko> adeuring, do you have time to look at this many queries in OOPS-907EA192 -- though I believe I know what that one is, hard to fix
<danilos> kiko: that's what jtv said "oopses about log(0)" :)
<Rinchen> log(0) sounds like a productivity modifier :-)
<BjornT> kiko: no, i didn't have time to get rid of the soyuz queries. the work in the view class is pretty much there. what is missing is methods for getting the information from the db.
<kiko> wow
<adeuring> kiko: yes
<Rinchen> jtv just sms'd me with the same report
<kiko> BjornT, thanks. bigjools, if you have a second left over tomorrow or monday, it's similar work to your +queue improvements and is a top-query page for us today.
<SteveA_> hi
<kiko> thumper, are there fixes already in place for OOPS-907EC70 and OOPS-907EB53 -- that's on edge which is kinda old.
<kiko> that's it for me
<thumper> lemmie check
<Rinchen> [TOPIC] Critical Bugs (Rinchen)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Critical Bugs (Rinchen)
<Rinchen> Yay. We have none pending!
<Rinchen> second week in a row iirc
<kiko> well, wait till monday! :)
<Rinchen> Good job folks
<thumper> kiko: yes, both landed
<kiko> thumper, you the man, **2. :)
<Rinchen> [TOPIC] Bug tags
<MootBot> New Topic:  Bug tags
<Rinchen> we have one
<kiko> let me guess
<Rinchen> https://help.launchpad.net/TaggingLaunchpadBugs
<kiko> package diffs! :)
<Rinchen> codereview by matsubara
<cprov-afk> kiko: again ?
<kiko> heh
<thumper> +1 to codereview
<kiko> +1 to codereview
<thumper> we are going to get a number of bugs :-)
<kiko> though
<mpt> a number? like 2?
<kiko> is that confusable with stuff in picked up during our internal code review process?
<thumper> mpt: have more than that already
<mpt> ok :-)
<Rinchen> As we expand the capabilities of LP Code Review, it might be worthwhile now to make this category slightly more generic.
<Rinchen> and also to prevent any confusion with infrastructure code review
<mpt> kiko, that problem applies to many things about Launchpad already (cf. the "Launchpad itself" hack)
<intellectronica> why not merge-proposal. is that not the name we actually use in launchpad?
<thumper> intellectronica: because we'd rather think of the thing as a code review of a proposed merge :)
<matsubara> I think codereview is slightly more generic than merge-proposal
<kiko> it's fine by me, either way -- didn't want to polemize!
<Rinchen> to be consistent with the other tags, it should be "code-review"
<statik> i always learn new words in this meeting
<matsubara> I'm not fussed about the tag name too, I just want to group those bug reports and codereview was the first thing that came to my mind
<Rinchen> I can't think of a more general term for branch actions of this sort so I'm +1 on "code-review"
<Rinchen> matsubara, thumper can you live with the hyphen?
<matsubara> danilos: you don't have any comment?
<thumper> hyphen is good
<matsubara> Rinchen: yes
<Rinchen> any opposition?
<kiko> go go go
<Rinchen> [AGREED] "code-review" tag approved. matsubara to update page and tag
<MootBot> AGREED received:  "code-review" tag approved. matsubara to update page and tag
<Rinchen> [TOPIC] Operations report (mthaddon/herb)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Operations report (mthaddon/herb)
<herb> Thursday (2008-06-19): The last of the Launchpad machines were updated to hardy.
<herb> Thursday (2008-06-19): Codebrowse was restarted a handful of times. It was suspected this was due to people browsing MySQL branches. Based on some of the emails we've seen today it seems that this is the case.
<herb> Wednesday (2008-06-25): Codebrowse was moved to it's new server.
<herb> Edge has been running with storm since Tuesday (2008-06-24) and seems to be doing well.
<herb> We're release-critical as of the wee hours this morning, and we're scheduled for the new release late Monday / early Tuesday.
<herb> There are 2 cherry picks waiting for approval (r6410 and r6451) and 1 that's been approved (r6530). We don't know yet when r6530 will be rolled.
<herb> That's it from Tom and me unless there are questions.
<mthaddon> er, unfortunately codebrowse had to be reverted from it's new server - mwhudson is working on it
<kiko> herb, does it really need to be rolled out?
<flacoste> herb: is one of those for the xmlrpc private server?
<kiko> mthaddon, thumper: will the new codebrowse code rock the boat?
<herb> kiko: we're trying to determine if it is necessary.
<barry> flacoste: 6530
<mthaddon> kiko, in what way?
<thumper> kiko: what boat?
<kiko> mthaddon, thumper: in a good way.
<kiko> flacoste, statik: I'd like to know if that's really necessary or not, given the monday rollout
<mthaddon> kiko, if it worked, yes - like I said, we had to revert, but mwhudson is working on it
<kiko> mthaddon, oh, that was with the new code already?
<mthaddon> kiko, yes
<statik> kiko: i'm ok with waiting for monday
<flacoste> statik, SteveA_: can the mailing list deployment wait until the roll-out?
<beuno> FWIW, it seemed to be a problem with accesing branches over HTTP instead of locally, because it got moved to a seperate machine  :)
<beuno> (Loggerhead that is)
<beuno> and hi  :)
<Rinchen> caching ftw ;-)
<mthaddon> beuno, right, that was the problem (although that's what we were trying to do with it, so it's a problem that it's a problem)
<Rinchen> Anything else for herb or mthaddon ?
<mthaddon> Rinchen, er, no
<SteveA_> flacoste: monday?
<kiko> funtastic
<kiko> mthaddon, flacoste: will you guys coordinate on the /@@ fix?
<kiko> I am really excited about getting that rolled
<flacoste> kiko, mthaddon: yes
<kiko> I think it will make a huge difference
<mthaddon> sounds good on /@@/
<kiko> mthaddon, note that the /@@ stuff also needs the cache-control jimmied in
<flacoste> SteveA_: yeah, kikos wants to hold off the cherry pick and wait for the regular roll-out
<SteveA_> if it's just monday, then okay
<mpt> kiko, if you start caching /@@/ at all, you could get six times as much benefit by fetching all those resources from launchpad.net rather than from the same hostname as the rest of the page (e.g. code.launchpad.net)
<mthaddon> SteveA_, monday evening my time :)
<SteveA_> fine
<kiko> mpt, that requires changing paths everywhere in our templates though.
<mpt> hmm
<flacoste> kiko: we could do it at the apache level
<mpt> maybe it could redirect?
<flacoste> yep
<flacoste> 301
<kiko> mpt, flacoste: wouldn't that be slow as slow?
<mpt> but then maybe a redirect is slower
<mpt> yeah
 * mpt shrugs
<flacoste> not really
<kiko> for me, a redirect is very slow
<flacoste> only the first time
<flacoste> well
<statik> fetching static resources from a separate server is faster because it bypasses the browser throttling of how many simultaneous connections to a server are made
<kiko> not for the first time -- every time code.l.n/@@/foo is hit, we'd be 301ing him back to l.n/@@/foo
<statik> i think redirecting would kill any performance gains
<flacoste> browser should cache the redirect
<kiko> I dunno if any browser does that, and not persistently
<flacoste> anyway, fixing the path in all of the templates is outside the current scope
<flacoste> so, it's redirect-away or forget this
<mthaddon> flacoste, how much work would that really be?
<flacoste> mthaddon: fixing all the templates?
<mthaddon> yeah
<flacoste> well
<flacoste> maybe not that much
<statik> i'll volunteer to help mass-editing some templates to get a nice speedup for our users
<kiko> it's annoying though, putting a tal: expression for each /@@ in there.
<kiko> not sure.
<mpt> yeah, that would annoy me
<kiko> flacoste, statik: we could do that post-1.2.6 anyway.
<statik> totally
<kiko> the most important thing is serving that stuff statically
<kiko> the rest is icing.
<mpt> Perhaps make it part of the template interpretation layer
<flacoste> ok
<flacoste> mpt: dream on :-)
 * mpt handwaves
<flacoste> template interpretation layer = TAL engine = not-customizable
<flacoste> or rather !extensible
<Rinchen> I think we're ready to move on
<mpt> not in the TAL engine
<mpt> maybe just before that
<mpt> anyway
<mpt> sorry for the digression
<Rinchen> I think that was...thank you herb and mthaddon
<Rinchen> [TOPIC] DBA report (stub)
<MootBot> New Topic:  DBA report (stub)
<Rinchen> stub is not here
<Rinchen> so
<Rinchen> [AGREED] Rinchen to email stub for dba report
<MootBot> AGREED received:  Rinchen to email stub for dba report
<Rinchen> [TOPIC] Sysadmin requests (Rinchen)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Sysadmin requests (Rinchen)
<Rinchen> Is anyone blocked on an RT or have any that are becoming urgent? I know about Thumper's
<intellectronica> yeah, we need api.staging.l.n set up
<mthaddon> intellectronica, in process
<Rinchen> matsubara, your shot factory request has been denied.  Speak to me after the meeting for alternatives.
<bigjools> Rinchen: the one I talked about in the week with you
<intellectronica> mthaddon: fantastic
<matsubara> Rinchen: ok.
<mthaddon> intellectronica, btw, it'd be nice to have a bit more lead time on RTs like that if possible
<cprov-afk> bigjools: https://rt.admin.canonical.com/Ticket/Display.html?id=31016
<SteveA_> we should have a checklist for this stuff
<SteveA_>  - changes to DNS
<intellectronica> mthaddon: i realise that
<SteveA_>  - access to new machines
<SteveA_>  - extra memory / disk resources
<thumper>  - email processing changes
<SteveA_> etc.
<Rinchen> bigjools, cprov-afk - need a due date for that if you could please
<SteveA_> and go through that when planning changes
<SteveA_> to give IS advance notice
<bigjools> Rinchen: it's for 1.2.6
<SteveA_> and note that many DNS changes need to apply to both lpnet and edge and staging etc.
<statik> i just want to say that our IS and OSA team rocks
<statik> i don't care who knows it
<intellectronica> they totally do!
<mthaddon> too kind, too kind
<Rinchen> bigjools, I've updated the ticket and pinged elmo
<bigjools> thanks Rinchen
<Rinchen> SteveA_, actually I think those sections are in the roll-out template
<Rinchen> but not to that level of detail
<Rinchen> [TOPIC] New packages required (salgado)
<MootBot> New Topic:  New packages required (salgado)
<kiko> Rinchen, would be useful to update that, though the problem I see is that the roll out of APIs spanned more than 4 months, so..
<salgado> any new packages this week?
<kiko> I have a request.
<kiko> salgado, can we use P3As for lp-meta-deps?
<kiko> pretty please
<thumper> salgado: I think mwh said there are new deps for loggerhead
<thumper> salgado: simpletal and paste
<bigjools> Pimp Your P3A
<salgado> kiko, can we sign packages there?
<Rinchen> kiko, SteveA - I'll update the roll-out template with that info
<salgado> oh, Private PPAs
<kiko> salgado, not yet. but you can rsync and sign afterwards! :)
<cprov> salgado: you can, we can't sign repositories.
<cprov> salgado: mirror & signing is trivial, though
<salgado> we haven't done so because people have complained about that
<kiko> salgado, help dogfood p3a!
<kiko> we'll let you use them free of charge, I checked with mark
<kiko> special offer
<salgado> thekorn, I need a bug report
<bigjools> cheap at half the price
<salgado> thumper, ^
<thumper> salgado: I'll pass that on to mwh
<thumper> salgado: filed against what?
<salgado> thumper, meta-lp-deps
<thumper> k
<Rinchen> salgado, I wanted to thank you for updating these packages.
<SteveA> thanks Rinchen
<salgado> Rinchen, you're welcome
<salgado> kiko, I can give it a try.  where should I look for docs about it?
<statik> ooh, i want to mirror and sign my own PPA
<kiko> salgado, have a quick call with julian, it's all pretty easy
<kiko> thanks
<cprov> statik: someone posted a nice script sometime ago in lp-user ML (debmirror-based)
<statik> cprov: thanks, will look for it
<Rinchen> anything further for salgado?
<Rinchen> [TOPIC] A top user-affecting issue (mrevell)
<MootBot> New Topic:  A top user-affecting issue (mrevell)
<mrevell> Hi
<mrevell> Again the theme this week has been people who have subscribed to all Ubuntu bugs, only to find they don't know how to unsubscribe. We also get quite a few requests for help with Ubuntu to feedback|help@launchpad.net
<mrevell> I've been wondering if an auto-reply would enable people to help themselves, before I'm able to reply to them.
<mrevell> I've popped a suggested auto-reply email on the team list and would appreciate your comments.
<mrevell> Other than, nothing outstanding as a user-affecting issue this week. Thanks Rinchen.
<Rinchen> thanks mrevell
<Rinchen> anything for mrevell ?
<intellectronica> mrevell: i think that these are two separate issues
<intellectronica> if users subscribe to ubuntu by mistake, it may be that the ui is not clear enough
<mrevell> intellectronica: Ubuntu help requests and bug unsubscrive requests are, yes.
<mpt> There are (multiple?) bug reports about this
<SteveA> I believe we have plans for a UI to show you all subscriptions to mail, in one straightfoward page
<intellectronica> indeed, and i even think we have a pretty good idea of how it should be solved
<SteveA> whether these are mailing lists or subscriptions that send mail
<SteveA> and this page will be included in the footer of all emails
<Rinchen> the issue is actually a bit compounded by gmail which treats the "you are receiving this bug report because" message as a quote and collapses it so you don't see it unless you know enough to expand the section
<SteveA> well, a link to hte page
<cprov> statik: I lied, the script is in our 'bug #1' -> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/soyuz/+bug/125103
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 125103 in soyuz "ppa archives are not signed" [High,Confirmed]
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1 in ubuntu "Microsoft has a majority market share" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1
<intellectronica> Rinchen: maybe we should change the formatting?
<Rinchen> intellectronica, it's crossed my mind before. I was waiting to see if there were other reports of this before I suggested it.
<Rinchen> we know that many LP users have gmail accounts
<Rinchen> don't we barry :-)
<mrevell> Sure, we plan to show all subscriptions but right now we don't. In the the time between now and our providing that, lots of people will remain confused as to how to unsubscribe. As soon as we implement that, or de-confuse the UI, I think an autoreply may help people find the answer they need. Lots of support contact addresses do the same sort of thing.
<intellectronica> Rinchen: let's file a bug, if there isn't one yet, so that we see if there's much activity
<barry> Rinchen: indeed
<intellectronica> i use gmail, but i always considered the folding of that footer a feature!
<mpt> bug 110953, bug 89938, bug 217337
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 110953 in launchpad "Can't easily see everything I'm subscribed to" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/110953
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 89938 in malone "Very difficult to unsubscribe from a package" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/89938
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 217337 in malone "Bug supervisors shouldn't be compulsorily subscribed to all bug reports" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/217337
<Rinchen> intellectronica, you are me to file the bug?
<Rinchen> s/are/or
<intellectronica> Rinchen: i'd love to be you. for now i'll setlle for filing bugs ;)
<Rinchen> lol
<Rinchen> [ACTION] Rinchen to file bug on gmail footer auto-collapse as possible reason for inability of users to know how to unsubscribe from bug reports
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Rinchen to file bug on gmail footer auto-collapse as possible reason for inability of users to know how to unsubscribe from bug reports
<Rinchen> [TOPIC] Doc Team report (mrevell)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Doc Team report (mrevell)
 * Rinchen nudges mrevell.
<mrevell> This week I've continued work on the user guide. Many thanks to jtv for his feedback on the translations section. No news on the doc team, I'm afraid, although I expect they will offer great help in reviewing the user guide ove the coming weeks
<mrevell> sorry Rinchen, was hunting for the tomboy note
<Rinchen> We also have had a member of the doc team file a bunch of bugs on the updated help wiki
<Rinchen> that was helpful
 * sinzui -> afk to get automobile
<mrevell> Yes. And it's worth noting, if you haven't seen already, that help wiki is now running MoinMoin 1.6
<kiko> cool
<Rinchen> Anything further for mrevell?
<mrevell> so if you notice anything odd, please let me or Rinchen know.
<Rinchen> ok, sorry for being a bit over today
<Rinchen> blame kiko ;-)
<Rinchen> Thank you all for attending this week's Launchpad Developer Meeting. See the channel topic for the location of the logs.
<Rinchen> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 13:51.
<mrevell> thanks rinch
<SteveA> thanks!
<mrevell> thanks Rinchen
<intellectronica> thanks Rinchen
<al-maisan> thank
<rockstar> thanks
<al-maisan> s
<mpt> thanks Rinchen
<kiko> woo, I take the blame
<Rinchen> you're the default :-0
#launchpad-meeting 2009-06-24
 * henninge reboots
<jtv> me
<barry> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 09:00. The chair is barry.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<barry> welcome to this week's ameu meeting everyone.  who's here today?
<sinzui> me
<jtv> me
<abentley> me
<henninge> me
<rockstar> me
<bac> me
<gary_poster> me, still didn't do what I agreed to (at least, not the older one)
<gmb> me
<intellectronica> me
<henninge> gary_poster: me neither
<leonardr> me
<allenap> me
<barry> oh, you guys
<jtv> danilo: changed freenode nicks on us?
<adeuring> me
<barry> bigjools-afk: ping?
<noodles775> me
<barry> BjornT, cprov EdwinGrubbs ping
<cprov> me
<bigjools> me
<barry> mars: ping
<mars> me
<EdwinGrubbs> me
<danilo> me
<barry> salgado: ping
<mars> barry, flacoste is out today
<barry> mars: thanks
<danilo> jtv: not really, haven't ever had it set up here
<barry> [TOPIC] agenda
<MootBot> New Topic:  agenda
<jtv> danilos: that's what I meant
<barry>  * Roll call
<barry>  * Action items
<barry>  * Mentoring update
<barry>    * leonardr to be mentored by rockstar
<barry>  * Peanut gallery (anything not on the agenda)
<barry> [TOPIC] mentoring update
<MootBot> New Topic:  mentoring update
<barry> let's start with the good news.  please welcome leonardr to our midsts!  mentored by rockstar
<salgado> me
<leonardr> hello
<rockstar> Welcome leonardr!
<jtv> "hi leonardr!"
<barry> as is tradition, please give all your branches to leonardr
<jtv> oh, sorry, thought this was the Coders Anonyous
<barry> <wink>
<mars> hi leonardr
<barry> hi my name is barry and i haven't reviewed a branch in 4 days!
<jtv> hi barry
<rockstar> barry, "all your branches" during release week is pretty week.
<barry> :)
<barry> rockstar: :)
<barry> leonardr: great to have you on boarddddd
 * sinzui prepares 2000 line branch for barry
<leonardr> thanks
<barry> [TOPIC] action items
<MootBot> New Topic:  action items
<barry> i think we know where things stand.  intellectronica i think you did this one, right?
<intellectronica> ?
<barry>  * intellectronica to email list about higher JS branch limits
<intellectronica> i don't think i did. sorry
<noodles775> I actually wasn't here last week... but that sounds... scary...
<intellectronica> please carry this over, i'll do it pronto
<barry> intellectronica: ah, ok, we'll keep it then
<noodles775> Shouldn't we rather better factor our JS branches into smaller bits of functionality?
<sinzui> intellectronica: I think the higher limit is not needed if we make libraries and use YUI.Test
<intellectronica> noodles775: js is a lot more verbose (block delimiters, comments, etc)
 * jtv chokes back comment about counting minified lines
<noodles775> intellectronica: hmm... not convinced that it's doubly-verbose...
 * barry thinks sinzui's experiment with YUI.Test was very cool
<jtv> noodles775: the idea is you need more testing
<sinzui> JS libraries and be evolved long before we hook them in to the UI
<sinzui> I will send a email today about my experience with YUI.Test.
<intellectronica> since we already discussed this, shall we simply give it a try and reduce if people report being overwhelmed by large branches?
 * noodles775 shuts up :)
<barry> intellectronica: yes, and/or continue the discussion when you start the thread on the ml
<intellectronica> right
<rockstar> noodles775, I agree with you, although after UI review, my branch usually jumps a chunk.
<barry> [TOPIC] peanut gallery
<MootBot> New Topic:  peanut gallery
<barry> i have nothing else, does anybody have anything they'd like to bring up?
<abentley> barry: I have a new plugin that's like looms.
<barry> abentley: do tell!
<noodles775> abentley: and it rocks!
<abentley> It's called bzr-pipeline.  It will help you split up your work into branches.  It's at lp:bzr-pipeline
<bac> \o/
<barry> abentley: sounds interesting
<abentley> That's all I have to say here, but there are docs, and I'm around if you've got questions.
<intellectronica> abentley: what does it actually do?
<intellectronica> ah cool, will read the docs. sounds very interesting
<barry> abentley: thanks
<barry> anything else?
<barry> anybody?
<barry> 5
<barry> 4
<barry> 3
<barry> 2
<barry> 1
<barry> in record time...
<barry> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 09:14.
<barry> thanks everyone
<gary_poster> thanks barry
<jtv> thanks barry!
<gmb> Thanks barry
<jtv> g'night folks
 * barry branches bzr-pipeline
<barry> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 17:30. The chair is barry.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<jml> hi
<mwhudson> hi!
<thumper> hi
<barry> hi!
<barry> let's see, quick recap of ameu first?
<mwhudson> good idea
<barry> leonardr is our newest mentat, mentor: rockstar
<barry> abentley told us about his newest bzr plugin bzr-pipelines
<mwhudson> how many non-reviewers now?  just deryck?
<barry> mwhudson: yep
<mwhudson> cool
<barry> and all those pesky team leads :)
<thumper> barry: I'm technically a reviewer
<barry> anyway, that's it from ameu
<thumper> I just don't do on call :)
<barry> thumper: right! :)
<mwhudson> i still need to play with pipelines
<barry> me too
<barry> so that's it from me.  what's on your plate?
<thumper> not much from me
<mwhudson> the sort of fun you should probably expect when you dogfood a beta bzr format :)
<barry> mwhudson, jml anything?
<jml> nope
<barry> mwhudson: 5
<barry> 4
<barry> 3
<barry> 2
<barry> 1
<barry> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 17:37.
<barry> thanks!
<thumper> barry: ta
<mwhudson> that was nice and easy :)
#launchpad-meeting 2009-06-25
<matsubara> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 10:00. The chair is matsubara.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<matsubara> [TOPIC] Roll Call
<MootBot> New Topic:  Roll Call
<sinzui> me
<matsubara> Not on the Launchpad Dev team? Welcome! Come "me" with the rest of us!
<matsubara> me
<henninge> me
<bigjools> me
<stub> me
<intellectronica> me
<matsubara> rockstar, hi
<matsubara> flacoste, hi
<rockstar> em
<matsubara> apologies from herb and ursula
<matsubara> [TOPIC] Agenda
<matsubara>  * Actions from last meeting
<matsubara>  * Oops report & Critical Bugs
<matsubara>  * Operations report (mthaddon/herb/spm)
<matsubara>  * DBA report (stub)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Agenda
<matsubara> [TOPIC] * Actions from last meeting
<MootBot> New Topic:  * Actions from last meeting
<matsubara>  * danilos to discuss with herb a fix for bug 388825
<matsubara>  * Ursinha to talk to matsubara and spm later about the codebrowse taking 10 mins to restart
<matsubara>  * Ursinha to talk to flacoste about buildbot and storm updating for testing when he's available today
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 388825 in rosetta "UnknownTimeZoneError on various pages" [Critical,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/388825
<flacoste> me
<matsubara> ok, Ursula did talk to me and there's a bug filed about the codebrowse issue
<matsubara> flacoste, did ursula talk to you about the buildbot thing?
<matsubara> henninge, do you know if danilo discussed the fix with herb?
<henninge> mthaddon installed an updated version of pytz to fix bug 388825
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 388825 in rosetta "UnknownTimeZoneError on various pages" [Critical,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/388825
<matsubara> ok, it's fix released. so he did :-)
<flacoste> matsubara: we did talk about storm
<flacoste> matsubara: not sure what the buildbot stuff was about
<henninge> matsubara: yes, I'd expect so.
<matsubara> henninge, thanks
<matsubara> flacoste, hmm I'll re-add the entry for next meeting to remind her
<matsubara> [action] * Ursinha to talk to flacoste about buildbot and storm updating for testing when he's available today
<MootBot> ACTION received:  * Ursinha to talk to flacoste about buildbot and storm updating for testing when he's available today
<matsubara> ok, moving on
<matsubara> [TOPIC] * Oops report & Critical Bugs
<MootBot> New Topic:  * Oops report & Critical Bugs
<matsubara> two bugs, bug 386759 and bug 361026. first one for rockstar, second one for flacoste
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 386759 in launchpad-code "Code Reviews are broken on Edge" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/386759
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 361026 in launchpad-foundations "OOPS when registering a new account on login.lp.net with an email address that belongs to an existing profile" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/361026
<matsubara> rockstar, could you get someone to fix 386759 for 2.2.7?
<rockstar> matsubara, yes.
<matsubara> rockstar, it's blocking code review for some people
<rockstar> Is that deployed on prod now?
<matsubara> flacoste, any news about 361026?
<matsubara> rockstar, yes
<flacoste> matsubara: last news is that it's not easy to fix
<sinzui> matsubara: I see other critical bugs we need to watch
<rockstar> matsubara, so is it a candidate for CP then as well?
<matsubara> sinzui, I'll get there :-)
<matsubara> rockstar, might be
<matsubara> flacoste, so, can you re-target it to 2.2.7?
<flacoste> stub: "no easy fix" was your comment on bug 361026, how not easy is it?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 361026 in launchpad-foundations "OOPS when registering a new account on login.lp.net with an email address that belongs to an existing profile" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/361026
<stub> The registration forms on login.launchpad.net need to all stop creating and modifying Person records, and any fallout with that dealt with.
<stub> I don't know how much fallout that will be - I'm not that familiar with them.
<flacoste> matsubara: yes, retarget to 2.2.7
<matsubara> stub, can you assess that and reply back in the bug report? if it's too difficult and the oops is not happening frequently we might want to decrease the importance
<matsubara> flacoste, cool. thanks
<matsubara> now for the critical bugs
<matsubara> we have 8 critical bugs
<flacoste> 8!!
<matsubara> 4 Fix committed
<matsubara> 2 in progress and 2 triage
<matsubara> triaged
<matsubara> flacoste, bug 390861 is one of the triaged ones
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 390861 in launchpad-foundations "Appserver memory issues issues" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/390861
<matsubara> sinzui, bug 391175 is the other one
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 391175 in launchpad-registry "error in vocabulary when picker search includes unicode character" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/391175
<matsubara> I take none of those will make the re-roll today?
<matsubara> wait, that last one was in Triaged state a few minutes ago!
<matsubara> sinzui, you're fast :-)
<sinzui> matsubara: Edwin is having difficulties getting things landed in PQM
<sinzui> matsubara: I think it will miss the reroll today.
<matsubara> sinzui, the Absent content factory thing?
<flacoste> matsubara: actually the 390861 one isn't in effect
<flacoste> matsubara: i'll decrease it to high, since the storm update has been reverted
<sinzui> matsubara: I don't think so. BjornT landed Bug 388112 for Edwin, but that too does not appear to be in db-devel
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 388112 in malone "unable to subscribe ~launchpad with new JS widget" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/388112
<matsubara> re-roll will include up to r8203 from db-devel only
<matsubara> flacoste, thanks
<BjornT> sinzui: what isn't in db-devel?
<matsubara> sinzui, that's on r8199
<sinzui> matsubara: Given how quick thing are moving the the next release. I think we should assume a CP next week, and  cheer if it is ready for today
<matsubara> sinzui, ok, so CP be it.
<matsubara> thanks sinzui
<sinzui> matsubara: EdwinGrubbs reported that when he pulled db-devel, it was missing that rev
<EdwinGrubbs> sinzui: it exists now
<matsubara> ok, I think that's it for this section
<matsubara> thanks everyone
<sinzui> matsubara: bug 287248 is the most pressing critical item my team has. Barry and Edwin are working on it. It may be a data corruption problem in prodution
<ubottu> Bug 287248 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/287248 is private
<matsubara> sinzui, that's the other one in progress, right?
<sinzui> it is
<matsubara> sinzui, so, we'll need to CP that one then
<sinzui> If we need to change launchpad/mailman, it will be a CP
<matsubara> sinzui, as BjornT cut db-devel on r8203  for the re-roll
<matsubara> let's move on
<matsubara> [TOPIC] * Operations report (mthaddon/herb/spm)
<MootBot> New Topic:  * Operations report (mthaddon/herb/spm)
<matsubara> herb and the other losas are sprinting
<matsubara> so herb will email the report to the list later on today
<matsubara> [TOPIC] * DBA report (stub)
<MootBot> New Topic:  * DBA report (stub)
<stub> Database part of the rollout seems to have gone smoothly. We still need to rebuild the slave db used for read only mode, which needs to happen some time before the next DB outage so not urgent.
<stub> The Storm update was rolled back in case it was causing or contributing to timeouts and memory issues noticed during QA. I'll reland this branch once release mode is over so we can test more fully on staging and edge.
<stub> Nothing else to report.
<matsubara> cool. thanks stub
<matsubara> one final announcement before closing up
<matsubara> we need to QA the last itens that landed since the rollout. I've asked Ursinha to fix the test plan script which seems broken and I'll ping the owners of each item after the meeting
<matsubara> that's all
<matsubara> anything else before I close?
<matsubara> Thank you all for attending this week's Launchpad Production Meeting. See the channel topic for the location of the logs.
<matsubara> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:23.
#launchpad-meeting 2010-06-30
<bac> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 09:00. The chair is bac.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<bac> me!
<sinzui> me
<abentley> me
<EdwinGrubbs> me
<mars> me
<bac> rinze: ping
<mars> bac, gary is away today
<noodles775> me
<henninge> me
<leonardr> me
<bac> deryck sent his regretss
<bac> s
<bac> bigjools: ping
<bigjools> me
<bac> adeuring: ping
<adeuring> me (sroyy...)
<bac> [topic] agenda
<MootBot> New Topic:  agenda
<adeuring> sorry
<bac>  * Roll call
<bac>  * Agenda
<bac>  * Outstanding actions
<bac>  * New topics
<bac>    * Lots of unlanded, approved branches [bac]
<bac>  * Peanut gallery
<bac> [topic] outstanding actions
<MootBot> New Topic:  outstanding actions
<bac> * bac and abentley  to define new doctest policy regarding what is "testable documentation".
<bac> good news
<bac> i spent some time yesterday going throught the TestStyleGuide trying to 1) bring it up-to-date wrt the post-apocalyptic directory layout and 2) try to define 'testable documentation' and spell out our expectations
 * noodles775 has a meeting conflict this week. Sorry bac.
<bac> i've asked abentley and sinzui to look it over and give feedback.  but i'm removing this albatross from the todo list
<rinze> me
<bac> * Bjornt to set a policy on what can live in lib/lp, lib/services, and lib/coop
<jtv> me
<abentley> bac, it looks pretty good to me.
 * bac wonders who this rinze person is...
<abentley> bac, detailed results to come.
 * bac and what he's done with jelmer
<rinze> bac: I'm jelmer :-)
<bac> i guess BjornT probably won't get to that item before he departs.
<bac> perhaps we should give it over to jml
<bac> * *Everyone* read lib/canonical/launchpad/doc/db-policy.txt
<bac> a final reminder to look at that documentation.
<bac> * Sinzui to replace pylint
<sinzui> blocked
<sinzui> I can resume work when lp builds my package
<bac> sinzui: you're now working on this during the workday, though.  that's good news.
<sinzui> That is because I am in the lp tree now
<sinzui> waiting for a dep
<bac> [topic] Lots of unlanded, approved branches [bac]
<MootBot> New Topic:  Lots of unlanded, approved branches [bac]
<bac> we talked about this two weeks ago and bigjools suggested we revisit.
<bac> the list of approved-but-unlanded old branches has been driven down to 8
<bac> only three owned by people here.
 * mars hides
 * adeuring hides too
<bac> so, please either land those branches or mark the MP something other than 'approved', if appropriate
<bac> i was sure my gimp elephant picture would spur some to action
<bac> [topic] peanuts
<MootBot> New Topic:  peanuts
<bac> anyone have something not on the agenda?
<bac> i have nothing else.
<bac> thanks for coming to a very brief meeting.
<bac> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 09:12.
<mars> thanks bac
<rinze> thanks bac
<bigjools> bac: I have an item to put on the meeting agenda next week, will it remain when you update the agenda page?
<bac> bigjools: sure
<bigjools> ta
#launchpad-meeting 2012-06-25
<ubot5> Announcement from my owner (jussi): #ubuntu-discuss can-voices
