#ubuntu-doc 2005-03-07
<logiczero> logout
<scorpix> hi
<xtracto> hi!
<xtracto> hello, could anyone help me mounting an external hard drive
<xtracto> I have almost everything allright
<xtracto> I can mount it in the console via mount /dev/sda1
<xtracto> but only with root
<xtracto> after I mount it, i can not see it with normal user (no read rights)
<xtracto> any help?
<scorpix> chmod 777 maybe?
<xtracto> well, I have it mounted in /mnt/disc
<xtracto> and when unmounted it is 777
<xtracto> (the directory)
<xtracto> but, after mounting it is r-x------
<xtracto> dr-x
<xtracto> and tried to chmod 777 but
<xtracto> but it tells "read only file system"
<xtracto> I also tried with fstab "user" option
<xtracto> and then mounting it in user mode
<xtracto> but, i still cant get in
<scorpix> hmmm
<scorpix> try asking in #ubuntu
<xtracto> oks
<xtracto> thnks!
<abelli> Kinnison: ciao
<abelli> ChrisH: ciao ciao ciao ciao
<abelli> everybody ciao...
<abelli> exams are over
<enrico> Hello.  Anyone to love to do some OMF scrollkeeper files for me?
#ubuntu-doc 2005-03-08
<abelli> ciao ppl
<abelli> who's the wiki's technical administrator
<abelli> s/wiki/website
#ubuntu-doc 2005-03-09
<abelli> hello everybody
<abelli> ChrisH: thanks again for your logger
<ChrisH> abelli: Dou itashi mashite.
<abelli> ChrisH: woza
<abelli> ChrisH: domo arigato gozai mashta
<abelli> enrico: woza
<enrico> ciao
<ChrisH> enrico: Konnichiwa, Enrico San.
* enrico goes eating
<enrico> buon appetito!
#ubuntu-doc 2005-03-10
<froud> African Greetings
<abelli> froud: woza
<abelli> froud: yebo, i said a stupid thing.. 
<abelli> can someone of you, MOTK, MasterOfTheKnowledge tell me if those howtos are enough howto.gnuarch.org/bazaar ?
<abelli> ChrisH froud sivang  asw maskie sm Kinnison : AA
<ChrisH> No idea. I haven't yet used baz.
<abelli> ChrisH: im happy to say you have been downgraded StablemanForTheKnowledge
<abelli> ;)
<sivang> abelli: yo
<sivang> ChrisH: Hey
<abelli> ..mmm sorry StablemanOfTheKnowledge
<abelli> sivang: big ups
<sivang> abelli: what?
<sivang> abelli: I saw you called me in my backlog
<abelli> so.. continue reading your backlog :)
<abelli> can you  tell me if those howtos are enough howto.gnuarch.org/bazaar ?
<sivang> abelli: err, couldn't you give me the short version?
<abelli> can you  tell me if those howtos are enough howto.gnuarch.org/bazaar ?
<sivang> I can take a look if you want, but not before tommorow
<sivang> (trying to work out #2251)
<sivang> and preview freeze is tommmorow
<abelli> sivang: i can solve your problem
<abelli> i did it yesterday on #ubuntu..
<abelli> or at least we can try to
<abelli>  /etc/cups/cupsd.conf
<abelli> line 456 or a little after
<abelli> change listen to 127.0.0.1:635
<abelli> to Listen to 0.0.0.0:635
<abelli> then around line 764
<abelli> ..well we'll do it togheter..
<abelli> sivang: tell me when you're ready
<ChrisH> sivang: Konnichiwa, sivang-san
<sivang> ChrisH: hehe, now I am japaneeze?
<sivang> :)
<sivang> ChrisH: I did get a strange spam mail in chineese though..
<abelli> sivang: mmm.. right seems that fabbione as already done it right?
<sivang> sivang: you mean baz?
<ChrisH> sivang: I get lots of strange mails with a faraway charset. :(
<ChrisH> Gah... the whole family is in bed. I'm the only one not having fever. This season sucks.
<abelli> enrico
<abelli> enrico: ding
<abelli> enrico: ping
<enrico> abelli: hi
#ubuntu-doc 2005-03-11
<froud> African Greetings
<froud> morning enrico
<enrico> froud: morning!
* enrico watches sunrise
<froud> I'm back
<froud> Cape town was super cool
<enrico> everything is frosty and covered in snow.  Sunrise is beautiful this morning
<enrico> Cape Town... I still have to check that out
<froud> he he, we have a cool morning with a warn sun. Birds a chirping and life looks ready to go.
<froud> http://www.cape-town.org/
<enrico> I've brought my gf to the airport, and now I'm preparing lessons for this morning.  I'll be operative in the afternoon
<froud> Huh?
<froud> gf
<froud> airport
<froud> lessons
<enrico> girlfriend has a meeting in amsterdam
<enrico> I am giving some lessons about communication and Internet to high school students
<froud> ah Amsterdam. What a cool place
<enrico> froud: mostly cold, these days :)
<froud> yes, but still, what a lllllayed back place
<enrico> oh, yes!
<froud> tel me
<froud> how does Ubuntu Update Update Manager and Synaptic differ
<froud> I just ran UUM
<froud> and it did updates
<froud> Then I ran Synaptic
<froud> and it had upgrades to do
<froud> ?
<froud> I thought UUM did that
<enrico> Good question.  I think you should ask mvo
<enrico> mvo is the author of both :)
<froud> on devel
<enrico> yes
* froud goes to devel to find mvo
<enrico> although you may want to wait a couple of hours: I'm sure he's still sleeping (he loives in GErmany)
<froud> OK, I will msg him so when he is awake I can chat to him. Thanks
<enrico> np
<froud> i'm just closing a few pieces on the quick guide
<froud> what was the final on "About Ubuntu"
<froud> also trickie was asking about screen capts
<froud> in the Release Notes
<froud> I assume all of these are installed in the same place
<froud> if yes, then using screen capts is no problem
<froud> if no then we have to do manual  duplication of images to the release notes
* froud does not really want to do that
<enrico> nono, all images are installed in the same place
<enrico> they are split in their owning package, but then they all end up in the same directory
<froud> yes , but is release notes in the same place as everything else. I think About Ubuntu and Release Notes should be in the same place as the rest of the docs just in their own folders
<enrico> oh,yes.  Those are to be sorted out a bit.  I still haven't talked with mdz (my intention is to do it this a'noon)
<froud> Ah Ok, no problem let me know what will be done
<abelli> froud: bon jour
<froud> abelli: top of the morning to ya abelli 
<abelli> froud: let me say... woza.
<froud> woza means come
<abelli> froud: yeah i know
<froud> sawubona means hello :-)
<froud> where do      you want me to come to :-)
<abelli> froud: shall we work on a basic afrikaan polygen grammar?
<froud> enrico: I see jeff has an account. Thanks
<enrico> froud: no problem.  And plovs has his account as well!
<enrico> Thanks to Elmo, actually
<froud> yeah! Hey were is plovs?
<froud> not here today
<enrico> No, but he lives :)
<froud> I think therefore i am
<enrico> froud: you commit, therefore you are
<froud> and when I commit, I commit. Sorry to fill your mailbox this morning
<enrico> froud: no problem: I've got more space than gmail :)
<froud> lucky fish
* froud 's Quick Quide Status Report: 3 items need help. 11 items need review. 172 items are marked complete.
<enrico> WoW!
<froud> It is nearing the end
<enrico> Worth a posting of the list of those 14 items to the list
<froud> Can do
<froud> enrico: strange I have subversion installed but cannot configure Administration > Shared Folders
<froud> ooops my mistake
* froud is off to do some work. c ya later
<abelli> froud: ciao
* enrico looks for people with experience with scrollkeeper
<enrico> _froud_: around?
<froud> enrico: what's up
<enrico> hello froud!
<enrico> Did you read my mail in ubunut-doc about renaming the about ubuntu and release notes?
<froud> hey, not yet
<froud> gimme 5 min
<froud> seems ok
<froud> you want me to do it
<enrico> no, I wanted to ask if that could cause problems, as the documents are interlinked
<froud> go ahead. I will fix the broken pieces. The main aim should be to make it easy for packaging
<enrico> ok. We'll need to wart trickie
<froud> warn trickies about the filename change
<enrico> froud: first we see if it works: I committed
<froud> he would have seen your message. The filename change will not make any diff to him
<enrico> froud: please tell me if/when things work again
<froud> ok hang ten
<enrico> in the meantime, I started studying the omf files.  Appearently, we have a problem registering the about ubuntu document, as it references the other documents which are still not installed.  No alarm for now, though: it may work anyway
<froud> enrico: yep that was one of the problems I was trying to get clarity on about a month or two ago :-0
<froud> enrico: svn up all should work
<enrico> froud: you're so ahead that we undestand what you say with a month of delay :)
<froud> no am am in the same place as you but I like to look ahead to see problems
<froud> hate last minute things   like this 
<froud> I see release notes still has its own image in the output, do you want to use it?
<froud> at present the html points to images/
<froud> suspecting that the release notes may move I added a command to copy the image relative to the document, but it was never used.
<enrico> dunno why, but I always give it for granted that other people will try things and report obvious problems; however, that doesn't usually happen
<enrico> (until the last minute)
<enrico> let's see.  I'm building the thing, then I'll check how it goes
<enrico> images shuold always be in images/ 
<froud> providing that release notes will remain in root
<enrico> reports are broken (failed to load external entity ReleaseNotes.xml"
<froud> yes that I did not fix
<froud> leme fix it
<froud> svn up - any more problems?
<enrico> let me see...
<enrico> .deb has been built
<froud> chuk-a-train it works
<enrico> uhm... scrollkeeper barfs.  It wants the libs/ stuff.  I guess I'll install it...
<froud> spoke with mvo. he explained the diff for upgrade on update-manager and synaptic
<froud> I will be creating GNOME user docs for update manager next
<enrico> another question: how come you generate the about-ubuntu HTML in a home subdirectory, rathern than in just build/about-ubuntu?
<enrico> (need to go for dinner, be back in ~30 minutes)
<froud> it was in a home dir on the distro so I just aped the distro
<froud> we can change it
<enrico> I think we should change it
<froud> to root of build go have dinner I will do the change
<enrico> bah, ugly validation barfs.  Could you try to build+install the package to see the scrollkeeper error messages?  It says it can't find things that seem to be there
<enrico> (just committed my last fixes)
<froud> ok lemme just finish the make file and I will take a look
<enrico> to build the packages, go in the trunk and do a "fakeroot debian/rules binary"
<enrico> you'll find the packages in the directory above the trunk
<enrico> be back asap
* enrico is back
<enrico> news?  How's the prognosis?
<froud> Umm just running the fakeroot
<froud> hmmm now I have two transformations running..... slowwwww
<froud> so what do you think we should work on after QG
<enrico> Unless you have more clues, I can't see many targets acheivable before hoary releases
<froud> :-) no mean after Hoary
<enrico> We could have an IRC meeting to talk about after-hoary
<enrico> and we could also ask the developers for ideas
<froud> cool
<venda> make[1] : Leaving directory `/home/sean/ubuntu-doc/trunk'
<venda> DEB_MAKE_CHECK_TARGET unset, not running checks
<venda> DEB_MAKE_INSTALL_TARGET unset, skipping default makefile.mk common-install target
<venda> dh_installdirs -pubuntu-docs
<venda> if [ ! -f build/release-notes/html/ReleaseNotes.html ] ; then \
<venda>         mkdir build/rn-html; \
<venda>         mv build/release-notes/* build/rn-html/; \
<venda>         mv build/rn-html build/release-notes/html; \
<venda>         mv build/about-ubuntu/home build/about-ubuntu/html; \
<venda> fi
<venda> mv: cannot stat `build/about-ubuntu/home': No such file or directory
<venda> make: *** [install/ubuntu-docs]  Error 1
<herve> hi
<froud> herve: hi
<herve> I try to add a link to a GNU Arch repository on the wiki
<herve> but STX syntax messes it up
<herve> do you know some trick to preserve a URL?
<herve> double square brackets won't work
<froud> Hmm. enrico ping
<enrico> oh, sure: you changed that, the deb scripts are broken.  Fixing the mnow
<froud> enrico: can you help herve 
<enrico> uhm... arch...  Kinnison?
<enrico> Ah, sorry, to the WIKI
<enrico> You use stx... it was agreed to stick to Moin
<enrico> herve: if you're not very deep into the markup, you can try Moin.  Just the URL, or if it doesn't work, put the URL inside single square brackets
<froud> I know the []  works for moin moin
<herve> ok I think I have to switch
<herve> how do you make notes then?
* froud looks for an example
<herve> ha thank you
<enrico> notes, like what?
<herve> notes at the bottom of a page
<herve> I don't know a better name
* Kinnison sees his name
<Kinnison> enrico: something I can help with?
<enrico> herve: ok, sure.  I don't think Moin makes notes
<enrico> Kinnison: sorry: I thought there was a problem about arch, but it was about the wiki instead
<herve> no arch is fine ;)
<herve> but stx is outdated
<herve> it's probably the occasion to learn reST
<Kinnison> enrico: Aaah
<enrico> are notes so essential?  They are not very common in web pages
<herve> thank you guys
<froud> herve: for notes just do
<herve> they are to me :)
<froud>  NOTE:: Your text here
<enrico> herve: wait: froud has a solution
<froud> a space before the word not ewill do
<herve> that would put it at the end of the page?
<froud> see example of tip @ https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/SubversionRepository
<herve> enrico, I would use good old hrefs but I'd like these URL to appear on their own
<froud> herve: no it will be inline to the page
<froud> see the example above
<herve> ok, I see the kind of note
* froud looks for a patch from enrico 
<herve> I think I'll take the time to learn reST
<herve> thank you all
<herve> bye
* venda groans, "GNOME is too slow"
<enrico> froud: I'm working on the patch
<venda> good
<froud> venda is rebbbbbboting
<enrico> froud: committed!
<enrico> froud: got it?
<froud> got it
<froud> running fakeroot
<enrico> you're actually running debian/rules under a fakeroot environment
<enrico> fakeroot is cute: you run it as a user, and you are root
<froud> yep
<froud> where did you say it should put the packages
<enrico> one directory above the trunk
<enrico> fakeroot debian/rules binary; cd ..  and you find the packagse
<froud> uhhh huh!
<enrico> are they there?
<enrico> you can navigate inside them with mc, if you want
<froud> yep I have themmm
<enrico> ok. Try installing just ubuntu-docs: it's the one showing prolbems
<froud> enrico: what's the command for installing from a local package
<froud> sudo apt something
<froud> my system keeps looking online
<enrico> dpkg -i <packagename>.deb
<froud> ah ha
<froud> toatl debs newbiew here
* froud scratches for rpm
<enrico> froud: apt-get install rpm :)
<enrico> I just suggest you don't use it on a Debian system ;)
<froud> sure
<froud> I gotta learn this stuff anyways
<venda> sean@venda:~/ubuntu-doc $ sudo dpkg -i ubuntu-docs_0.1-1_all.deb
<venda> Selecting previously deselected package ubuntu-docs.
<venda> (Reading database ... 74492 files and directories currently installed.)
<venda> Unpacking ubuntu-docs (from ubuntu-docs_0.1-1_all.deb) ...
<venda> Setting up ubuntu-docs (0.1-1) ...
<venda> Registering documentation.done.
<enrico> done?  No errors?
<froud> as you see above
<enrico> uhm... /me thinks about something...
<enrico> I have an idea...
<froud> wonder what 'appens if I install the rest
<enrico> In part it's debian that still hasn't fixed the "xsltproc loads from network" problem
<enrico> then it says it can't load external entity REVISION and VERSION
<enrico> I need to add those as well
<venda> sean@venda:~/ubuntu-doc $ sudo dpkg -i ubuntu-quickguide_0.1-1_all.deb
<venda> Selecting previously deselected package ubuntu-quickguide.
<venda> (Reading database ... 75099 files and directories currently installed.)
<venda> Unpacking ubuntu-quickguide (from ubuntu-quickguide_0.1-1_all.deb) ...
<venda> Setting up ubuntu-quickguide (0.1-1) ...
<venda> sean@venda:~/ubuntu-doc $
<venda> no prroblems there
<enrico> uhm.. I think it's ignoring some problems
<venda> hmm is there a verbose mode like rpm :-)
<venda> -v
<venda> or -vvv
<enrico> shouldn't be: that's scrollkeeper, not dpkg
<enrico> let me fix that
<enrico> testing...
<enrico> If I get it right both on Debian Sid and on Hoary, I'm happy
<venda> well on hoary current revision in dev brach it seems ok
<enrico> if you run yelp, can you see the two documents?
<enrico> They should show up somehow in yelp's table of contents
<enrico> sivang: hello!
<enrico> sivang: are you there?
<venda> run it from menus
<froud> nada
<froud> :-(
<enrico> right... now there is to be figured out how to do good OMF files...
<enrico> ...and I'm considering poking someone from #ubuntu-devel for it
<enrico> have you installed all of the documents, or only ubuntu-docs?
<enrico> try viewing the about-ubuntu.xml file with yelp: I get quite some "MISSING XINCLUDE CONTENT"
<froud> The folder structure is not as we discussed
<enrico> No: the User's guide is just no installed :)
<froud> I thought all would be in share/docs/ubuntu-docs/
<enrico> I should package chap-ubuntu in the ubuntu-docs package instead of the user's guide
<froud> you lost me
<enrico> no, it's share/ubuntu-docs (for the xml files) and /usr/share/doc/<packagename> for the HTML versions
<enrico> the about-ubuntu.xml document xincludes parts from the user's guide
<enrico> but the user's guide is not installed on the system
<froud> yes that is true
<enrico> Can we move those contents to the about-ubuntu.xml and xinclude from the User's Guide instead?
<enrico> That would make things so much easier (the User's Guide would depend on the about-ubuntu package anyway)
<froud> yes let's do it
<froud> yelp it bitching about all sorts of stuff for quick guide
<froud> ok hang in there leme move the stuff
<enrico> froud: ok
<froud> enrico: ok that should do it
* enrico svnups
<froud> what's the dpkg update command
<enrico> just dpkg -i
<enrico> dpkg is able to understand that a version is installed already, so it's an update :)
<froud> hmm ok easy to remember. Nothing lik elearning on the fly
<froud> enrico: I moved the content to the wrong place
<enrico> froud: :)  But interestingly enough, scrollkeeper stopped complaining
<froud> yes
<enrico> (however, yelp still can't find the xincluded parts)
<froud> i move it to about-ubuntu.xml
<froud> I am moving to qg
<enrico> no,please
<enrico> move it to about-ubuntu, not to qg
<enrico> else, I have the same problem
<froud> I did about ubuntu
<froud> now we need the stuff in qg
<enrico> oh, ok.  gq needs to point to about-ubuntu now
<enrico> did you commit the baout-ubuntu changes?
<froud> for now I am just making a copy
<froud> not yet
<froud> ok now
<enrico> I test them while you hack on the rest
<venda> what rest there are more problems
<enrico> Oh, no, I mean, on the quickguide
<froud> do svn up
<froud> quick guide is fiiiixed
<enrico> can you yelp /usr/share/ubuntu-docs/C/about-ubuntu-xml ?
<venda> just about to try
<venda> done new build an dinstall
<enrico> yelp is having fun of me
<enrico> it's telling me "MISSING XINCLUDE" when there are no XINCLUDES there.  It must be caching things
<venda> nope cant
<enrico> why can't?  What problem?
<froud> cant open about-ubuntu
<froud> says its not well formed
<froud> buut that is not true
<froud> cause I did valid check
<venda> now I am confused it works in qg and not for releasenotes or about ubuntu
<enrico> oh, blah.  .svn directories in the package.  I should remember to export before building (altohugh this doesn't impact xml)
<enrico> release notes works for me
<froud> hmm you sure
<enrico> but I'm not hoary
<venda> lemme try on suse
<froud> it works on suse
<froud> but the about ubuntu has problems
<froud> seems yelp does not know what to do with the article
<froud> and cant find the image
<froud> the ubuntu image
* enrico ponders a rain of bug reports
<froud> but release notes looks good
<froud> but I cant load it on hoary from usr.share ..
<venda> but the release notes load from svn src on hoary
<venda> I think it is yelp that does not know what to do with article documents
<enrico> something wrong: in the build dir, without even building the debian package, I can't yelp about-ubuntu.xsml
<enrico> something wrong: in the build dir, without even building the debian package, I can't yelp about-ubuntu.xml
<venda> at least not ones that have para, para, paraaaaaa, sect1, sect2
<enrico> nor the release notes
<venda> ok, I must go sleep. Look atthis with fresh eyes in the morning
<venda> lemme start from the top in the morning and work through it
<enrico> yes, that's a good idea
<enrico> Unfortuantely, tomorrow I'll be working
<venda> all docs checkout as valid and well-formed in the repos
<enrico> and I'll have a meeting in the evening
<venda> but it seems Yelp is all cocked
<enrico> I'll be back operative on wed evening
<venda> that's fine
<enrico> yes: it seesm to me a bit off
<enrico> I think we should involve the devels on this one
<venda> b 4 we go
<venda> is there a problem to run about and release under firefox
<venda> why do we need yelp for them
<venda> I dont recall us tartgeting those docs for yelp
<enrico> yes, the idea was to try to integrate them in the help system
<venda> Then I will hav eto change the xml structure so that yelp likes it
<venda> the gnome team did not impliment all docbook xsl
<venda> so this is why we have the problems
<venda> I will check the yelp source in the morning
<enrico> but the about ubuntu problems seem to be a different thing
<enrico> I really suggest you involve the devels right from the start
<venda> I cant remember seeing a template ffor the article tag
<enrico> I'll try to ping them now
<venda> no not now
<venda> just need clear head
<enrico> k
<venda> to figure out how     help tackles artcles
<venda> yelp is such a crippled app
<venda> shaunm does not have enough time to hack it
<venda> so it's patching in places
<venda> Im off. c ya later
<enrico> venda: see you!
<froud> chow
<sivang> enrico: now i am
<sivang> enrico: Whassup? :)
<enrico> some .debs to try
<sivang> enrico: shoot :)
<sivang> enrico: where are them?
<enrico> if you want to svn up the documentation, build the debs and try to install them
<enrico> svn up the documentation
<enrico> fakeroot debian/rules binary
<enrico> then give them a try
<enrico> check if you can see the HTML, and if you can access things with yelp
<sivang> enrico: svn: PROPFIND of '/repos': could not connect to server (http://docteam.ubuntu.com:8080)
<sivang> how can I create a new archive?
<sivang> sorry,
<sivang> I mean, I want to reset my folder
<enrico> sivan... it's using https now
<sivang> oh
<sivang> well, and I still have a username and a password?
<enrico> now it's https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos/trunk
<sivang> so svn co https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos/trunk ?
<enrico> you'll have to do svn switch --relocate <old url you can see with svn info> <new url>
<sivang> oops, I alrady deleted the old folder :-/
<enrico> then checkout a new one
<enrico> now, I think I told you at least 5 times how to get a password inthe new repo
<enrico> I sent a mail to the list twice about it, and I pointed you at the link using IRC
<enrico> please try to do a short list search before asking me how to have the password in the new repository...
<sivang> ok, sure, sorry
<sivang> I'm way swaped with some stuff I am fighting to finish before preview freeze, so I may check this at a later stage when I've finished it, and do all the neccessary reading, I'm sorry again.
<sivang> enrico: I thought the pkgs are already in the repository
#ubuntu-doc 2005-03-12
<hsprang> is there anyone who can help with problems concernung the eiki?
<hsprang> sorry, i meant wiki
<froud> hsprang: you still thre
<hsprang> froud: there again :)
<froud> hsprang: you needed help
<froud> what's the problem
<hsprang> i am trying to write a howto in the ubuntu wiki
<hsprang> but i am having troubles getting the page formatted
<hsprang> i was expecting it to accept moin moin wiki syntax,which would be great, because i have the docs already in mediawiki, which is the same
<hsprang> but it seems the doc pages are somehow special
<froud> hsprang: the wiki should accept moin moin
<froud> We have a number of documents already in moin moin
<froud> can you give me the url of your document in wiki
<hsprang> http://www.ubuntulinux.org/support/documentation/howto/helpcenterhowto.2005-02-28.6671204877/howto_view
<hsprang> can you see it even if i didn't publish it?
<hsprang> or do i have to submit it therefore?
<froud> you need to submit it
<hsprang> done
<froud> send the view url
<hsprang> is the above not working?
<froud> no that one is for edit
<froud> click the view tab
<froud>  and copy the url
<hsprang> http://www.ubuntulinux.org/support/documentation/howto/helpcenterhowto.2005-02-28.6671204877/howto_view
<hsprang> this is exactly the same as above...
<froud> I am getting "Fully Automatic Installation with FAI"
<hsprang> both names are "view" at the end, too
<hsprang> yes
<froud> ok
<hsprang> you're at the correct page
<froud> ok, not much there
<froud> let me find a page that you can ape the markup from
<hsprang> yes, i had my full mediawiki page there, but it looked like crap and so i removed it
<froud> oh dear
<hsprang> if you like i cann add my fzll text i want to put in there, but as you might see, the header already doesn't work
<froud> add your text
<hsprang> minute...
<hsprang> there...
<froud> hsprang: strang it is not reacting to moin moin
<hsprang> :) good feeling that you see it, too...
<froud> ChrisH: ping
<ChrisH> froud: pong...
<froud> you got any idea why wiki is not recognizing moin moin
<hsprang> in the "text format" selector there isn't even a way to select moin moin syntax, which is different from other wiki pages, as i saw
<froud> I have now set it to structured and made changes take a look
<froud> hsprang: will you be able to take it from there
<ChrisH> Hmmm. not really.
<froud> ChrisH: what not realy
<ChrisH> I don't really have an idea. :)
<ChrisH> Last time I changed a page it was in ReST.
<froud> OK seems that this part of wiki does not hav esupport for moin
<froud> hsprang: will you be able to do it in structured
<hsprang> ok, this one looks pretty good...
<hsprang> almost
<froud> put uri in [] 
<froud> ape the markup around you
<froud> hope that helped :-)
<froud> thanks ChrisH 
<hsprang> it helped very very much! thank you :)
<hsprang> is there a doc about the structured text markup?
<froud> dunno of one
<froud> I just ape what's around me open two tabs one with your doc and one for viewing other textsssss
<froud> copy the markup in the existing samples
<froud> a bit of a by the seat of the pants way of doing it, but it works :-)
<hsprang> yes, and i am already miles further than last night :)
<hsprang> who is administering the wiki, anyway?
<froud> everyone ;-)
<froud> I know enrico does loads of wiki stuff but he wont be here until toght
<froud> tonight
<hsprang> ok, i already wrote a mail to webmaster@ubuntu.org anyway about some other issues i have, when creating my MaintainerCandidates page like ogra told me at #ubuntu-motu, but that's not exactly ubuntu-doc ...
<froud> hsprang: I don't know anything about that ... ChrisH do you
<hsprang> plus the howto page has a nice bug which leads to data loss if one forgets to enter the page title - in that case, the body is completely lost in the following page that tells you you forgot the title
<froud> hsprang: enrico is your man. He will come on later today
<hsprang> but i am getting chatty... ok
<froud> :-) ok
<froud> I'm just busy trying to get the OMF/Scrollkeeper stuff fixed for release
<hsprang> ... which i pretty well know nothing of :)
<froud> neither did I until I  joined this project :-) OSS you gotta love it.
<hsprang> besides that it seems to be some central? piece of the systems integrated docs...
<froud> yes it is
<hsprang> it's quite interesting, it's pretty important to provide help for people running the system quickly and adequately in al,ost anything that can go wrong
<hsprang> which is not quite a task one gets done in an evening
<ChrisH> Hm.... what was the trick to keep xsltproc from getting the DTDs from the oasis web site during every run?
<sivang> hey ChrisH 
<sivang> hey people
<sivang> (others)
<ChrisH> sivang: hey, bounty hunter :)
<sivang> ChrisH: heheh
<ChrisH> The compile is getting me mad... every time it's pulling in the oasis documents.
#ubuntu-doc 2005-03-13
<Burgundavia> hello one and all again
<froud> Chrish: if it makes you mad then look in bugzilla a fix the problem.
* froud sends African Greetings
<jeffsch> froud: ping
<ChrisH> froud: ah, you probably thought of #5005
<ChrisH> Hmm... not really.
<froud> There is a new option on the logout screen, "Hibernate the computer" Anyone know what this does. When I test it the screen goes black and I have no way of unhibernating. Clues appreciated.
* froud asks people to note any interfaces changes such as the above and amend Quick Guide if required.
<froud> enrico: Is there any way for us to be easily notified on changes in apps or menus without having to tune into the development of every application in the release? Right now I am trying to keep desktop menus in hoary and the contents of Quick Guide aligned. A present I am doing a manual check after each update.
<Kinnison> http://www.lua.org/ will be temporarily unavailable for a data move. Please stand by...
<Kinnison> Site re-enabled; thanks
<enrico> froud: uhm... you'll have to reask me in a couple of hours
<enrico> ok, now I understood the question
<enrico> I can't think of any obvious ways besides begging the devels to send us a mail
<enrico> (which we can definitely do)
<enrico> It'd be a very good habit for them to do so: both to the docteam and to the translators
<enrico> froud: noted in my TODO list: tonight I'll try to discuss it with someone
<enrico> froud: and thanks!  It's a good idea
<enrico> froud: (BTW) another post-hoary idea of mine would be to find a way to reach into the various /usr/share/doc/<package> documentation
<Kinnison> argh; I told the wrong damned channel about lua.org being down
<Kinnison> please kill me now
* Kinnison hides
<enrico> maybe interfacing with the devels' arch repository
* enrico tickles Kinnison 
* Kinnison cries
<Kinnison> today has been baaaad
<enrico> me cuddles Kinnison 
* enrico cuddles Kinnison 
<Kinnison> ta
<sivang> Kinnison: which channel?
<sivang> :-)
<sivang> Kinnison:   
<Kinnison> sivang: I told here instead of #lua
<sivang> Kinnison: oh :)
<sivang> Kinnison: you are the main maintiner?
<sivang> maintainer even
<Kinnison>  
<Kinnison> I maintain lua for Debian
<sivang> Kinnison: eh right i recalled now
* froud thinks this is way to cuddly
<Kinnison> cuddling is good
<froud> only with Linux Chics
<froud> shoot were has enrico gone now
<froud> :-/
<Kinnison> You saying I'm not Linux Chic ?
<froud> Sorry I dont know if you are m or f
* Kinnison is male, but very chic
<Kinnison> chic : adj : elegant and stylish
* froud hug Kinnison and hope Kinnison is a Linux Chic
* Kinnison grins
<froud> announce: team we have roled back to docbook dtd 4.1.2 as a temp solution to overcome some problems in either scrollkeeper or the hoary xml catalog sys. Not sure which, but just so you know.
<sivang> froud: so, where is the bug in?
<froud> sivang: not sure
<froud> either scrollkeeper or xml catalog system
<froud> but dont have time to play with it
<froud> so we role back to 4.1.2
<sivang> ok, if it works there it's good
<sivang> sometimes it's wise to stick to the latest stable thing and not the cutting edge :)
<froud> well actually 4.3 is old
<froud> db is now going 5.0
<froud> and RNG
<froud> but that is too bleeding at the moment
<sivang> right
<sivang> let me know if you manage to see stuff in yelp , if not I will give the file you fix a test hear when there's a pakcage, I'm too busy to set up my svn
<froud> sivang: ok
<enrico> WoW!  The list is HOT!
<enrico> froud: the DocBook version change broke the Makefile a bit: now it tries to download from the network (in Debian at least)
<ChrisH> Same here... I just don't know how to make that stop (other than using squid to speed it up).
<enrico> I tried to point it at the 4.1.2 and it actually works
<enrico> I'll commit in a moment
<enrico> this one seems to have been easy
<enrico> works.  Commit...
<enrico> committed.  ChrisH: svn up and retry, please...
<abelli> everybody ciao
<ChrisH> in a sec
#ubuntu-doc 2006-03-06
<robotgeek> hmm, i apparently left out add-applications
<LaserJock> bad robotgeek :)
<robotgeek> the diff doesn't show svn added files
<robotgeek> LaserJock: the best way to send in a new file is?
* robotgeek is always confused about this
<LaserJock> robotgeek: you should be able to do a "svn add" and svn diff it
<LaserJock> you aren't able to?
<robotgeek> LaserJock: nope, it doesn't diff
<robotgeek> oh, you mean svn diff file.xml
<robotgeek> okay, that works. but just svn diff doesn't
<LaserJock> just svn diff at the top of the repo
<robotgeek> LaserJock: thanks, that worked. mailed
<robotgeek> now to find someone to commit, lol 
* robotgeek catches hold of LaserJock 
<LaserJock> hmm, I have no idea what you're talking about :-)
<robotgeek> LaserJock: heh, i now have a go ahead on all commits related to KDG :)
<LaserJock> it's not validating for me.
<robotgeek> LaserJock: can you pasteibn the error?
<LaserJock> just a sec
<LaserJock> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/9569
<robotgeek> LaserJock: apparently you need to install a kde package
<LaserJock> but should that matter? I don't know that the repo should be that dependent on outside packages
<robotgeek> kdelibs-data
<robotgeek> cause it's a kde documentation shared entity file
<LaserJock> robotgeek: I've got a meeting right now.
<LaserJock> should I just commit it?
<robotgeek> LaserJock: yeah
<LaserJock> it validates for you?
<robotgeek> LaserJock: yup
<LaserJock> k
<robotgeek> thanks
<LaserJock> done
<robotgeek> ty
<Burglaptop> holy crap! There is a large scale, gov't funded Ubuntu deployment happening on the Island right now
<Burglaptop> http://www.silc.ca/drupal/?q=node/62
<Burglaptop> Madpilot: holy crap! There is a large scale, gov't funded Ubuntu deployment happening on the Island right now
<Burglaptop> http://www.silc.ca/drupal/?q=node/62
<Madpilot> Burglaptop, yeah, saw your email - that's very cool
<Burglaptop> amazing what you turn up when you start looking
<Madpilot> Burglaptop, have you contacted SILC yourself?
<Burglaptop> I went down to Project Literacy Victoria tonight and chatted with a women there who showed me her lab
<Burglaptop> she said "and here was have 5 windows XP Pro machines and here is a machine we are testing an open source OS called Ubuntu. Have you heard of it?"
<Burglaptop> then she told me about SILC
<Madpilot> heh
<robotgeek> :)
<Burglaptop> I am going to be chatting with SILC tomorrow
<Burglaptop> on another note. I am trying to bulk up my chapter on Ubuntu over time
<robotgeek> howdy bhuvan 
<Madpilot> your what?
<Burglaptop> do you lot have any suggestions of about periodic maintence, except for security updates and deborphan?
<Burglaptop> oh, and the ca. mirror appears to be dead
<Madpilot> I stopped using the ca archive about two weeks ago, it was acting up then stopped totally...
<Burglaptop> it is amazing how much desktop linux is actually out there
<Madpilot> ... lurking... <cue spooky music> :p
<Burglaptop> nah, think lost kid. Que World Vision sad music. "For only dollars a day, you can support this lonely Linux desktop installation"
<Burglaptop> black and white shots of malnourished developers
<robotgeek> Burglaptop: don't forget doc writers :)
<robotgeek> phew, finished sorting 10 gb's of music
<Madpilot> only 10Gb? ;)
<robotgeek> Madpilot: i gotta sort thru some more
<robotgeek> yay, i got SVN access!
<bhuvan> robotgeek, congrats!
<bhuvan> Madpilot, i guess you were waiting for the same ?
<robotgeek> sadly, i have nothing more to commit today, lol
<Madpilot> hey, the email just arrived - cool!
<Madpilot> (for commit access, that is)
<Madpilot> I'll sort it out after I eat
<robotgeek> Madpilot: congrats, (again)
<robotgeek> by the end of this week, i would like you guys to review KDG and offer suggestions
<Burglaptop> robotgeek: Madpilot and I are exclusively gnome users
<robotgeek> Burglaptop: style wise, maybe. 
<Burglaptop> robotgeek: sure, I should be able to
<robotgeek> anyways, you guys might want to rip out the office section from KDG
* robotgeek reminds himself to add Koffice section
<Burglaptop> robotgeek: what is Kubuntu shipping? OO.o or KOffice?
<Madpilot> robotgeek, I'll do a proofreading run thru KDG for you if you want - style & typos & such
<Madpilot> UDG seems to be mostly finished for now - I'll do one more pass thru it sometime this week
<Madpilot> dinner, back later
<Burglaptop> robitaille: you see the exciting news?
<robitaille> Burglaptop:  news?
<Burglaptop> robitaille: you subscribed to gnome-ca, ubuntu-ca or vlug discuss?
<robitaille> oh...just saw your email on vlug. cool
<Burglaptop> ok, styles and OO.o are pissing me off
<Burglaptop> they appear to work in FC4
<Burglaptop> hey that is cool. Ubuntu is not a typo in OO.o by default
<LaserJock> really?
<Burglaptop> I think so
<Madpilot> cool, commit access decrypted - now off to read the rest of the SVN documentation :P
<robotgeek> Burglaptop: openoffice
<Burglaptop> Madpilot: did you svn access just come back again?'
<Madpilot> Burglaptop, I never had it, I'd lost the password to my first GPG key
<Burglaptop> robotgeek: that is what I thought. Be careful about discussing things like koffice, as they duplicate functionality in the core install and might simply confuse
<robotgeek> Burglaptop: ah, okay. 
<robotgeek> Madpilot: yes, please do proofread :)
<Madpilot> robotgeek, will do - sometime this week, not sure when
<robotgeek> Madpilot: take your time, i will be updating and fixin a few more things. Lots more to do
<robotgeek> jsgotangco: i got SVN commit access :)
<jsgotangco> robotgeek, woooo congrats m8
<Madpilot> mine finally arrived too
<robotgeek> expect a commit spree from tommorow, lol
<Madpilot> hmm, fun in #edubuntu...
<Burglaptop> indeed
<robotgeek> damn, just missed it. i see lilo there, which is not good :)
<Burglaptop> you can read  the log
<Madpilot> someone was changing the topic there, and claiming their irc client had been hacked
<Burglaptop> he also wanted to know how to hack like they did on some PBS kids computer show
<Madpilot> missed that part, I just showed up in time to watch everyone talk at lilo 
<Burglaptop> http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/edubuntu-current.html
<Burglaptop> see the fun
<Burglaptop> ah, cyberchase, that is the pbskids program
<Madpilot> entertaining log - I assume the little troll got banned?
<robotgeek> Burglaptop: no ops there?
<robotgeek> Madpilot: no
<manicka> do we have a troll in our midst?
<Madpilot> on #edubuntu - fun's over, though
<Madpilot> http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/edubuntu-current.html
<robotgeek> manicka: hmm, try the kdg now, it should validate. i apparently missed a chapter, lol
<manicka> ta
<Burglaptop> hmm, our op situation on most channels is pretty bad
<Madpilot> the main chan. coverage is getting better (I must have been insane to volunteer, though...)
<Burglaptop> I really should remove myself. I am never there now
<Burglaptop> maybe I should keep it, just for the airstrike-like quality of having an op join and kick them
<Madpilot> "I love the smell of kickbanned troll in the morning"
* rob got accused of being a clone or something of that guy
<Burglaptop> rob: sadly yes
<rob> the op situation should be sorted at this CC meeting
<Burglaptop> ok, the tab completion in xchat-gnome is borked
<Burglaptop> rather than cycle through the options, it just lists them
<Burglaptop> I will deal with it
<Madpilot> rob, someone didn't notice the ubuntu cloak when they ran whois on you... or they didn't bother to run whois at all
<rob> Madpilot, yeah probably :)
<rob> lilo was paged in for that job
<Burglaptop> which I guess is what bash does, but it doesn't complete on rob, when in fact a nick named rob
<rob> I think he was sleeping or something
<Madpilot> I think a bunch of people pm'd lilo
<rob> Madpilot, no, lilo has a pager that staff can page him on, I'd done it a bunch of times
<Madpilot> ah
<rob> s/I'd/I've
<rob> we had a lot of GNAA problems a while ago, that was an instant page when they showed up
<rob> lovely people, them
<rob> ah*scriptkiddies*choo..!
<jsgotangco> i gotta go
<jsgotangco> brb
<Burglaptop> hmm, "Other activities in Wiesbaden, Germany: May 3-12, 2006"
<Burglaptop> from JeffWaugh
<robitaille> that restart icon in Dapper after some upgrades really reminds me of Windows...
<Burglaptop> that icon should be replaced soon
<Burglaptop> but in reality, a stable system is only going to see that icon about once
<robitaille> we should see it after any kernel security upgrade, no?
<Burglaptop> yes, but how many has breezy had?
<Burglaptop> oh, and dbus updates
<Burglaptop> dbus developers need to get on the d-Unix bus and realize that userspace services should not require restarts
<robitaille> Burglaptop:  4 times for Breezy.  So once a month
<Burglaptop> about the same as a WinXP box, as MS only updates XP once a month
<robitaille> So it's back to my original point:  it reminds me of Windows :)
<Burglaptop> indeed
<Burglaptop> actually, we are worse than windows, as Windows will do the actually installing when you shutting down normally, thus saving a reboot in the middle fo work
<mdke> morning
<Burglaptop> morning mdke
<mdke> :)
<Burglaptop> it is almost morning here. Another 17 minutes
<mdke> haha
<mdke> mpt_, ping?
<mdke> AboutUbuntu? is it going to happen?
<rob> hmm, I thought of some Automatix/Easyubuntu basted child when I first read that
<mdke> eh? it's just an about window
<robitaille> anyone knows in which package the default bookmarks of Firefox live?   I just noticed it still contains a reference to bugzilla.u.c
<mdke> i think they are in mozilla-firefox
<robitaille> thanks
<Burglaptop> mdke: that is now the fourth attempt to shutdown that bloody initng crack thread
<mdke> true
<mdke> and the 40th attempt to generally stop the noise
<Burglaptop> fedora-devel and debian-devel are even more noisy
<mdke> i'm hoping the "developers have stopped reading this list" warning will sink in
<Burglaptop> because nobody tries
<Burglaptop> I find it interesting the people who post to -devel
<mdke> some of them are extraordinary
<Burglaptop> there are two major camps: the actual developers and those that just want to talk about something
<mdke> there was a mini-thread about debugging a Window XP problem!
<mdke> crazy shit
<Burglaptop> some of us who are well respected but not developers rarely post
<mdke> I only post to ask people to be quiet :)
<Burglaptop> indeed, as do robitaille and seveas
<mdke> mmm
<mdke> although it's important to be patient, especially with newcomers
<Burglaptop> yes, not biting their heads off is good, but also being firm
<mdke> that guy was right, if someone comes along saying "how can I help", it's really out of order to say "not by posting here"
<Madpilot> someone actually said that on one of the -devel lists?
<Burglaptop> I need to merge HelpingUbuntu and /community/participate
<mdke> yeah, Seveas
<Madpilot> out of patience from stupidity on #ubuntu, probably :P
<mdke> possibly
<mdke> damn we really need to know if AboutUbuntu is going to happen
<mdke> mpt_ !!! please reply
<Burglaptop> mdke: I don't think it is
<mdke> gah
<mdke> i'll mail him
<Burglaptop> because mpt_ mentioned at UBZ that he had run out of pygtk skills and nobody else stood up and helped him
<robitaille> humm...someone reported 5 weeks ago that bugzilla.u.c is still in the firefox bookmarks... (bug 28896)
<mdke> Burglaptop, he's worked on it since then
<Madpilot> bugzilla.u.c should still redirect to the malone page - just yanking it seems uncool
<Burglaptop> yes, but only really picked at it
<mdke> robitaille, it'll get fixed I'm sure. Firefox has a major bug right now
<mdke> hmm
* mdke would also like to know about start.ubuntu.com
<mpt_> hi mdke, do you know pygtk?
<Burglaptop> mdke: ping (testing connection)
<mdke> mpt_, no
<mdke> Burglaptop, yes
<Burglaptop> mdke: hmm, bloody connection. It should randomly dropped for about 2 minutes there
<mdke> mpt_, does that mean it's not happening?
<Burglaptop> wow, I am tired. That last sentence made absolutely no sense
<mpt_> mdke, FeatureFreeze has started and I hardly have any time
<mpt_> I'll see what I can do
<mdke> mpt_, ok, but we really need to know soon, because if not we need to work on the alternative, which sucks
<mdke> -> work
<Madpilot> someone want to give me the 30 second guide to using SVN commit?
<Madpilot> if I do "svn commit ~/ubuntu-doc/ubuntu/desktopguide" it'll commit all my desktopguide changes, and prompt for password, right?
<Madpilot> anyone? I'd rather not screw our SVN repo up with my first commit... :P
<Burglaptop> Madpilot: you can also tell it what you username is password is with -u and -p
<Madpilot> OK - I need to put a -m tag in there too, I see
<Madpilot> so "svn commit ~/ubuntu-doc/ubuntu/desktopguide -m "UDG updates & editing" -u <password>"
<bhuvan> Madpilot, you can enter the password just once and it will be stored in ~/.subversion and you need not pass/use the password anymore
<bhuvan> Madpilot, ever its good to do 'svn diff' before running 'svn commit' and confirm we commit only the files we intend to
<Madpilot> in this case, I'm changing most of the files in /ubuntu/desktop
<Madpilot> if I add -p <pw> to my first commit, it'll be remembered, right?
<Burglaptop> night all
<Madpilot> later
<bhuvan> Madpilot, you can just run 'cd ubuntu-doc/ubuntu/desktopguide && svn commit'. first time it will prompt for password and consequent times it wont
<bhuvan> Madpilot, if you prefer to use password in command line use '--password' option. refer 'svn commit --help' for details
<Madpilot> bhuvan, thanks, I've been reading the docs & svnbook, but needed a bit of clarification
<Madpilot> hmm, our SVN repo doesn't seem to be recognizing my new password...
<bhuvan> Madpilot, it will. it is case sensitive
<bhuvan> Madpilot, what kind of issue you face ? 
<Madpilot> I copied & pasted the pw right off the GPG decrypt
<Madpilot> bhuvan, http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/9585
* bhuvan is looking into it
<Madpilot> thanks
<bhuvan> Madpilot, what is your user id ?
<bhuvan> is it brian ?
<Madpilot> as far as I know, yeah
<Madpilot> haven't even thought about it since I set the svn up ages ago
<bhuvan> ok, whats your email id ?
<bhuvan> s/(email id)/ubuntu $1/g
<Madpilot> blurdesign@gmail.com - is that actually my ID?
<Madpilot> my LP name, right?
<bhuvan> what is your ubuntu email id ?
<Madpilot> as above - blurdesign@gmail.com
<bhuvan> whats your lp URL ?
<Madpilot> https://launchpad.net/people/yh728 - from an older email addy - should I try that?
<bhuvan> Madpilot, generally lp user id = svn user id, i guess. just to confirm i have send an email to your account
<Madpilot> got it sorted - my svn id is "yh728" still
<bhuvan> see if you have received an email to blurdesign@gmail.com and check the to-id as well
<bhuvan> Madpilot, yes
<bhuvan> so, your email id is yh728@ubuntu.com
<Madpilot> can I change that in LP without majorly screwing things up?
<Madpilot> like SVN commit access, now that I finally have it?
<bhuvan> "can I change that" = ?
<Madpilot> change my LP name from "yh728" to something that actually means something, I mean
<bhuvan> nope, i guess. the ubuntu user id is tied to lp account. so, the svn access and email id
<Madpilot> gah. LP got that from an old email addy, it would be nice to get it changed to 'bburger' or something
<bhuvan> Madpilot, out of box lp does not handle it, i guess. we should check with lp admin
<Madpilot> is the easiest way to do that to file a Support Request thru LP?
<Madpilot> or just thru email?
<bhuvan> i guess support request through lp is a best option
<Madpilot> OK, I'll do that - thanks again
<Madpilot> People are going to wonder who the heck "yh728" is on the docteam commits :P
<bhuvan> ofcourse! :) :)
<bhuvan> Madpilot also check with mdke/jsgotangco if we can route it through dholbach or Seveas to get it done quickly, just a thought though
<Madpilot> sure - I'll mail the list just now
<jjesse> just wanted to let people know that i'm redoing the adept guide from scratch as it is all of date
<robotgeek> jjesse: cool
<robotgeek> jjesse: what is the best way to link to other kde documentation?
<LaserJock> nothing like starting over from scratch ;-)
<jjesse> did everyone see the announcement on the fridge about the ubuntu book
<LaserJock> no
<LaserJock> I'll go check it out
<robotgeek> yup, i caught it..very nice
* robotgeek will see if he can get a free book by submitting tips
<jjesse> hopefully i hear back soon on my second draft, though i will probablly have changes to with adept being updated at the last minute
<Burgwork> mdke, you there?
<mdke> Burgwork, vaguely
<Burgwork> mdke, given last nights fun in #edubuntu , I realized we need to be more proactive with ops in various channels
<mdke> aha
<Burgwork> mdke, any objections to adding myself and jerome to the list of ops for this channel?
<LaserJock> Burgwork: fun in #edubuntu?
<Burgwork> LaserJock, we had a troll/young kid having fun
<Burgwork> had to call in lilo as only highvoltage has ops
<mdke> no objection, although I've never seen any of that here
<LaserJock> hmm, seems like most of the support channels are having problems
<Burgwork> I had never seen it before in #edubuntu, but this is about proactively preventing it
<LaserJock> makes sense
<LaserJock> hope it wasn't theCore, his little brother has been causing him lots of problems :(
<Burgwork> mdke, anybody you can think of that in the 0800 to 1600 UTC timezone?
<Burgwork> as I can pretty reliably be on 2000 UTC to 0800 UTC, at home or work
<mdke> Burgwork, i can't think of anyone, but i don't think we need to be paranoid about it
<Burgwork> ok. I think all the trolls are American anyway... ;)
<LaserJock> yeah, us Americans are a trolling lot ;-)
<mdke> Burgwork, you don't have a hostmask/
<mdke> ?
<Burgwork> such as /ubuntu/member ?
* mode/#ubuntu-doc [+o mdke]  by ChanServ
<mdke> or something else
<Burgwork> mdke, if you op Burgundavia, all my other nicks are linked to it
<mdke> i can't op a nick
<mdke> i need a hostmask, i think
<Burgwork> Seveas did it on #edubuntu
<mdke> hang on
<mdke> ah shit, I can't add people
<Burgwork> I think you need jdub for that
<Burgwork> he is active right now
<mdke> i need ChrisH
<mdke> jdub has the same access level as I do
<Burgwork> oh geez
<mdke> no problem, I'll ask him
<Burgwork> this is part of the cleanup we need to do
<Burgwork> most of the channels are pretty adhoc
<mdke> ok, I'll sort it and let you know
<Burgwork> cheers, thanks
* mode/#ubuntu-doc [-o mdke]  by ChanServ
<mdke> afk
#ubuntu-doc 2006-03-07
<mhz> jsgotangco: ping
<jsgotangco> mhz: hi
<mhz> hi, mon
<mhz> jsgotangco: sorry I have been so offlines
<mhz> jsgotangco: but I have been sick like hell
<mhz> .oO(hmm, like hell? I mean, very sick)
<mhz> ;)
<jsgotangco> i see
<jsgotangco> i've been busy myself
<mhz> jsgotangco: please do not think I am less interested in doing what we think it is needed
<mhz> My guess is that I should be recovered by weekend
<mhz> actually, it is difficult for me to stay up for longer than 30 to 50 minutes
<mhz> so I try to answer some mails and keep up with inbox (huge insane amount of un-read emails
<jsgotangco> its ok i'm going to do a content push this weekend this week has been hectic for me as well
<Burgundavia> ok, xchat-gnome sucks
<LaserJock> lol, it took you this long to find that out ;-)
<robotgeek> i keep coming back to irssi 
<Burgundavia> I changed my nick to just Burgundavia and then reconnected
<Burgundavia> it remembered the old setting
<Burgundavia> but took the new nickserv password. Grr..
<Burgundavia> xchat-gnome has some great ideas, it is just badly executed'
<robotgeek> konversation is decent, i probably will have to try kvirc soon
<Burgundavia> the screenshots of konversation leave me less than inspired
<robotgeek> why?
<Burgundavia> they look exactly like bloody xchat
<robotgeek> lol
<LaserJock> I like xchat though
<Burgundavia> xchat isn't bad, its configuration is just draconian
<LaserJock> hmm, perhaps
<LaserJock> I just don't know that they needed to go to such extremes. If I could smash xchat and xchat-gnome into one, working app I'd be pretty happy, I think
<Madpilot> hi robi
<Madpilot> robitaille...
<Madpilot> funny how tab-complete only works when you actually hit Tab :P
<robitaille> hi Madpilot 
<Burgundavia> salut robitaille Madpilot
<robitaille> bonsoir Burgundavia 
<robotgeek> hey Madpilot Burgundavia 
<robotgeek> also robitaille :)
<Madpilot> Burgundavia - got your desktop running again?
<robotgeek> my desktop is screwed
<Burgundavia> Madpilot: I heard about the breakage at work and haven't upgraded
* Burgundavia curses at gpm
<Burgundavia> it now dims teh screen, but doesn't treat keyboard events as events worth not dimming the screen for
<Madpilot> breakage in Dapper? (what a shock!)
<robotgeek> Madpilot: how to write documentation for it then lol
<robitaille> I like the new gnome splash screen...
<Burgundavia> robitaille: which one?
<robitaille> just checking things around after my first reboot after today upgrades.  the windows buttons look different now
<robitaille> the splash screen saying "this is not the final artwork" :)
<Burgundavia> ah
<Madpilot> "This is not the artwork you were looking for."
<robitaille> there is a new icon in my top menu beside my firefox icon:  "time and date".  Weird
<Burgundavia> seems we made digg
<Burgundavia> the official ubuntu book, that is
<robotgeek> Burgundavia: well, good publicity :)
<Burgundavia> it hit fridge
<robotgeek> that i saw in my feed
<bhuvan> Burgundavia: wonderful!
<bhuvan> robotgeek: feed ?
<robotgeek> bhuvan: rss feed fridge
<robotgeek> i meant, rss feed for fridge
<bhuvan> robotgeek: url ?
<robotgeek> bhuvan: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/ , it should show up if you are using firefox?
<bhuvan> robotgeek: yes, thanks
<robotgeek> Burgundavia: i just noticed that fridge has a [Discuss]  thing to the forums, it this automagic?
<robitaille> robotgeek:  I think it is automagic  it's something jdub wanted to do since the beginning of the Fridge.
<robotgeek> robitaille: then why isn't it on the wiki, :P
<Burgundavia> robotgeek: goes to the forums
<robotgeek> Burgundavia: yeah, that would make discussing howto's very easy, i think
<mdke> rob, around?
<mdke> rob, unping
<mdke> jdub, can you login to chanserv and add me or yourself to 49 access level points please for this channel, then add Burgundavia and jsgotangco as at least 10, kthxofftowork
<Burgundavia> night allk
<Kamping_At_Hut> is ubuntu starter guide on doc.ubuntu.com?
<robotgeek> yes
<Kamping_At_Hut> ok. ill try and find it. im after some codec help ;)
<Madpilot> for Dapper it's been changed to the Desktop Guides - one each for Ubuntu & Kubuntu
<Kamping_At_Hut> ah, that explains that confusion. 
<Madpilot> we like confusing people :P
<Kamping_At_Hut> so i see ;)
<robotgeek> Kamping_At_Hut: kde?
<Kamping_At_Hut> robotgeek: cli
<Kamping_At_Hut> i need to find out what gstreamer/stuff to install for my noise making while gnome downloads ;)
<robotgeek> libxine-extracodecs
<Madpilot> look for the Ubuntu Desktop Guide, then - link on the right of doc.u.c
<Kamping_At_Hut> found it thanks :) after the name change was cleared up
* robotgeek wonders when either mdke/jsgotan... will put KSG on d.u.c
<Madpilot> KSG?
<robotgeek> KDG, sorry
<robotgeek> ot KDSG, lol
<Madpilot> I think the d.u.c HTML is part of our SVN - you might be able to edit it yourself
<bhuvan> robotgeek: you can edit sidebar.inc.php and include the link yourself
<robotgeek> i notice that typos increase with increasing sleepiness
<robotgeek> bhuvan: umm, nice. thanks
<robotgeek> i'll take a look at it tommorow, don't want to screw anything up right now
<Madpilot> robotgeek, is the KDG going to replace the Kubuntu User Manual already listed there, or are they different things?
<robotgeek> Madpilot: i don't think that has been updated at all
<bhuvan> robotgeek: btw, it should be KDG
<bhuvan> robotgeek: refer this thread https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-doc/2006-January/004861.html
<bhuvan> robotgeek: we should do s/KDSG/KDG if we have not already
<robotgeek> bhuvan: cool, i think it's actually referred to as an enitity, so it's only one replace
<bhuvan> robotgeek: great
<robotgeek> Madpilot: i have no clue about the User Guide
<Madpilot> heh
<Madpilot> upstream KDE guide?
<robotgeek> Madpilot: however, i see lots of good stuff to copy, lol
<robotgeek> Madpilot: i think it was left incomplete for breezy, even
<Madpilot> where's it from?
<robotgeek> meaning?
* Kamping_At_Hut thinks incomplete... lols at lyn - he went and looked for a help file to help him workout what he was doing, then all he go when he found it was "blah blah blah " :)
<Madpilot> robotgeek, I was just wondering if it's an incomplete Kubuntu thing, or an incomplete thing from upstream, ie the actual KDE project?
<robotgeek> Madpilot: i think it's an incomplete Kubuntu thing
<Madpilot> Kamping_At_Hut, those are my favourite docs - or the ones that have big sections labelled "To Write" :P
<robotgeek> it says Kubuntu etc
<robotgeek> all over the place
<Kamping_At_Hut> Madpilot: <grin> 
* robotgeek loves source code commented with "You are not supposed to understand this"
<Madpilot> hey, I got involved in this insanity because I saw big sections in the Ubuntu docs with "To write" in them, and said, "Hey, that's actually easy stuff, even a noob like me could write it!"
<Madpilot> :P
<robotgeek> Madpilot: i am mainly pissed off by lack of documentation
<Kamping_At_Hut> Madpilot: thats why i tred to get involved - and my various orgs just ate all my time as soon as i sat down to contribute ;)
<robotgeek> i realise that it's not the most interesting thing to do, but this is the single most important area where kubuntu (and linux) need to improve
<robotgeek> anyways, i gotta hit the sack. later
<Kamping_At_Hut> robotgeek: i dont think its something jsut linux has to improve ;)
<Kamping_At_Hut> later mate
<Kamping_At_Hut> the sofware world is badly documented (as i might add, are large blocks of teh physical :D)
<robotgeek> Kamping_At_Hut: i spent a whole week trying to figure out a python package called scipy for my thesis work
<robotgeek> sadly, that was the best documented part. 
<robotgeek> err, program
<robotgeek> i even referred to matlab docuementation to understand what was happening, lol
<Kamping_At_Hut> heh. 
<robotgeek> anyways, laters
<Madpilot> Kamping_At_Hut, yeah, I'm *still* looking for the documentation on h. sapiens :P
<Kamping_At_Hut> lol. 
<Madpilot> later, robotgeek 
<Kamping_At_Hut> btw. i have lots of half complete documentation from the 3 orgs i work with. would there be any point me checking it against our svn repo and seeing if it can be merged in part? its not all 'average user' docs - like howto make an ubuntu mirror/server etc - but some of it may be of some use
<Kamping_At_Hut> even the not so average user stuff i hope might fit in somewhere
<Madpilot> Kamping_At_Hut, might want to ask on the docteam mailing list
<Madpilot> or ask mdke when he appears in a while
<Kamping_At_Hut> Madpilot: ok. if i rememer when i get home ill ask :)
<Kamping_At_Hut> hm. 
<Kamping_At_Hut> ill give that a shot as well
<Kamping_At_Hut> thanks Madpilot
<Madpilot> np
<Kamping_At_Hut> should all our pages be using the same xml version? i just noticed my page has a different xml versointo another in the archive, and that was a page i copied from someone else
<Kamping_At_Hut> just not sure where else
* mode/#ubuntu-doc [+o Seveas]  by ChanServ
* mode/#ubuntu-doc [-o Seveas]  by Seveas
<mdke> jdub, ok don't worry, it's done
<mdke> jsgotangco, Burgwork, you can get ops now
<jsgotangco> ops?
* mode/#ubuntu-doc [+o jsgotangco]  by ChanServ
<jsgotangco> ahhh
<jsgotangco> k
* mode/#ubuntu-doc [-o jsgotangco]  by jsgotangco
<jsgotangco> thanks
<mdke> np
<mdke> i can't give you the power to add more ops, but I think jdub can if necessary. Anyhow, me and him can make more ops
<jsgotangco> mdke: i don't mind at all
<jsgotangco> good night
<Burgwork> mdke, thanks
<jjesse> slow day today on the channel and mailing list :)
<Burgwork> I could spame the list? :)
#ubuntu-doc 2006-03-08
<Madpilot> hi all
<robotgeek> hey Madpilot , a bit late albeit
<robotgeek> bhuvan: ping
<bhuvan> robotgeek: pong
<robotgeek> bhuvan: which makefile should is being talked about in $doc/teamstuff/doc.ubuntu.com/README
* bhuvan looks the file
<bhuvan> robotgeek: they refer the Makefile in ubuntu/ and kubuntu/ dirs respectively
<robotgeek> bhuvan: cool, let me se if it compiles with make kall :)
<bhuvan> robotgeek: it may not :)
<robotgeek> make all, atleast
<bhuvan> robotgeek: visit http://doc.ubuntu.com/kubuntu/
<bhuvan> nope, i guess. if yes, then it should appear in http://doc.ubuntu.com/kubuntu/
<robotgeek> bhuvan: it takes a day, after i submit the patch for the makefile, i think
<bhuvan> yep! the documents on preview server are built once a day
<bhuvan> you can make changes to Makefile and include kdg in "all" target and confirm desktop-guide appears in the above url. later, you can include that link in sidebar.inc.php
<robotgeek> cool, let's just hope i am able to fix the make file, lol
<bhuvan> robotgeek: you can refer ubuntu/Makefile for details. just copy/paste those entries. WARNING: please run 'make kdg and confirm it is built. run 'make all' and confirm kdg is also built and finally commit!
<robotgeek> bhuvan: make kdg works, something else is messing up
<bhuvan> then all you should do is include 'kdg' in 'all' target
<robotgeek> bhuvan: cool, uno momento
<robotgeek> bhuvan: should i be including desktop-web in the make all target?
<bhuvan> robotgeek: if you include kdg and add in 'all' target
<robotgeek> bhuvan: the current make all fails because of errors in "kubuntu packing guide" and "install" guide
<robotgeek> maybe i should ask mdke 
<robotgeek> bhuvan: or you can also tell me what to do :)
<bhuvan> robotgeek: yeah, i'll check; seems you are right. 'make all' fails since jan 18; refer the modified time in Scripts to Help Create 
<bhuvan> Instance Sets/Scripts to Help Create/http://doc.ubuntu.com/kubuntu/
<robotgeek> bhuvan: commenting out both works fine
<Burgundavia> salut jsgotangco
<robotgeek> hey jsgotangco Burgundavia 
<LaserJock> hi jsgotangco 
<robotgeek> hey LaserJock :P
<jsgotangco> hi
<bhuvan> robotgeek: install guide is fixed
<robotgeek> bhuvan: should i svn up and try again?
<bhuvan> robotgeek: ofcourse
<bhuvan> robotgeek: packaging guide seem to do well
<robotgeek> bhuvan: are you sure you fixed the install guide in kubuntu/
<robotgeek> or am i missing something obvious here 
<bhuvan> you can do 'svn up' and run ./validate.sh generic/installguide/C/installguide.xml
<robotgeek> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/9660
* bhuvan installs meinproc to test kubuntu 'make all'
<robotgeek> bhuvan: oh, i meant a install guide in kubuntu/
<robotgeek> it's not the same as in generic
<robotgeek> jsgotangco: what do you know about those makefiles in kubuntu/ :P
<bhuvan> robotgeek: refer kubuntu/Makefile, the install target is based on generic/installguide/C/
<jsgotangco> none at all, KDE has its own mad processing
<robotgeek> jsgotangco: yeah, i have the meinproc's and stuff :)
<bhuvan> robotgeek: i guess, kubuntu/installguide/C is unused. it is empty ?
<robotgeek> bhuvan: yup
* bhuvan forgets meinproc package name
<robotgeek> kdelibs-bin
<bhuvan> robotgeek, yeah
* robotgeek swears he had docbook-xsl installed, lol
<Burgundavia> do we mention xchat anywhere in our docs? Looks like it is going away and not coming back
<jsgotangco> bye bye xchat
<robotgeek> where, what! 
<Madpilot> it's XChat-Gnome in the UDG. (XChat-Godawful...)
<robotgeek> oh, there are two versions of xchat, <sigh>
<Madpilot> There's the odd, not-modern-feeling (but powerful) XChat, and the new shiny (gutted) XChat-Gnome
<robotgeek> Madpilot: why do i get the feeling that i should stick to being a console jockey, lol
<Burgundavia> no, xchat and x-gnome are going away
<robotgeek> replaced by?
<Burgundavia> nothing
<robotgeek> bhuvan: looks like my bad, the packaging guide does build
<Burgundavia> currently being debated in #ubuntu-devel right now
* robotgeek joins in
<robotgeek> bhuvan: install guide doesn't
<bhuvan> robotgeek: ok, have you done 'svn up'
<robotgeek> bhuvan: yes, the install guide is basically empty :)
<bhuvan> robotgeek: i assume, you try cd kubuntu/ && make install
<bhuvan> if you do so, it will build generic/installguide.. and you will not face any problem
<robotgeek> bhuvan: oh yes
<robotgeek> bhuvan: sorry, having a bad day
<bhuvan> np
<bhuvan> robotgeek: now you can go ahead with your desktop stuff (where we started!)
<robotgeek> bhuvan: okay, i'll make desktop and pray!
<bhuvan> ha ha ha .. ok :) best wishes :)
<robotgeek> bhuvan: crap, i have to fight meinproc, lol
<bhuvan> ?
<robotgeek> bhuvan: the target is desktop-web, i suppose
<bhuvan> robotgeek: i guess not, refer ubuntu/Makefile for details
<robotgeek> bhuvan: i checked the outputs, the output of desktop-web == standard output
<robotgeek> for webpages
<bhuvan> ok
<bhuvan> robotgeek: seems desktop-* targets of kubuntu is broken or point of odd directories. it has to be fixed before you make new changes
<bhuvan> s/point of/point to/
<robotgeek> bhuvan: okay, i'll see what i ca ndo
<bhuvan> ok
<robotgeek> bhuvan: if you are going to be up for a while, i'll show you when i'm done?
<bhuvan> sure
<Madpilot> can someone running Dapper check something for me?
<Burgundavia> bhuvan: ping (testing connection)
<Madpilot> ...so much for his connection :P
<robotgeek> Madpilot: you mean, ubuntu right?
<Madpilot> robotgeek, yeah, Ubuntu Dapper - not Kubuntu, sorry
<robotgeek> :P
<bhuvan> Burgundavia: pong
<bhuvan> Madpilot: yes
<corey_> bhuvan: cheers
<Madpilot> bhuvan, can you just install gnucash & tell me if it's got a automatic menu entry yet? Thanks - trying to finish up some bits of UDG...
<bhuvan> Madpilot, yes
<Madpilot> good, thanks
* bhuvan installs gnucash and 10MB packages to be downloaded
<Madpilot> gah - lots of depends?
<bhuvan> yep
<robotgeek> bhuvan: hey, i did not notice, but the status is online already :)
<robotgeek> http://doc.ubuntu.com/kubuntu/status/kdg-report.html
<robotgeek> damn, i need to clean out the status tags
<LaserJock> so are we going to need to get rid of the link to #ubuntu in the firefox starter page?
<robotgeek> LaserJock: so irc is no longer a viable support option?
<Madpilot> LaserJock, why?
<LaserJock> I don't know that we will have anything installed by default to do irc
<robotgeek> LaserJock: irssi is as good as not being there
<LaserJock> right now the link is irc://
<robotgeek> gaim can do irc
<bhuvan> robotgeek: yes. its not part of 'all' taget. but it is part of 'web' target. i assume, 'web' target documents are placed online 
<LaserJock> robotgeek: will it open up a irc:// URL from firefox?
<robotgeek> LaserJock: probably not
<Madpilot> LaserJock, I haven't bothered joining -devel - what's the talk on IRC apps in Dapper?
<LaserJock> xchat and xchat-gnome are gone
<LaserJock> from the default install
<Madpilot> both? huh?
<LaserJock> yep
<Madpilot> I don't usually say this, but: WTF?
<LaserJock> it was determined that IRC wasn't very important to most users
<LaserJock> I think that is the basic idea anyway
<LaserJock> IM was seen as much more used
<Madpilot> 634 people in #ubuntu right now isn't important?
<LaserJock> umm, I'm not sure
<LaserJock> I guess it is assumed that they will install xchat if they want it
<LaserJock> I hope I'm not misrepresenting the discussion
<LaserJock> "jdub: what we ship in the desktop seed is stuff that will most likely be of use to the broadest cross-section of user profiles"
<robitaille> how many people use Ekiga?
<robitaille> I think the xchat client should stay personally
<LaserJock> I have no idea, I'm still trying to figure out how to pronounce it ;-)
<jsgotangco> im beginning to warm up on xchat-gnome though
<Madpilot> Just because XChat-Gnome is fairly awful, we're dropping a default IRC client totally? :P
<LaserJock> no
<Madpilot> (only half-joking...)
<robitaille> I'm back to irssi nowadays, but I think IRC is an easy way for user to get real time help.  And GAIM's irc is awful
<LaserJock> well, I think if GAIM won't open an irc:// from Firefox we should remove the link. That is, if they stick to this decision
<robitaille> it was easy to tell users:  click on the xchat button, click on connect, and you're there on #ubuntu to ask for help.
<bhuvan> Madpilot: Q: gnucash automatic menu entry exists; A: NO
<Madpilot> bhuvan, gah. Thanks for checking.
<bhuvan> np
* Madpilot undoes some edits to UDG...
<LaserJock> hmm, well I gotta get to bed. Maybe by the time I wake up xchat will be back :-) Here's to dreaming
<robotgeek> bhuvan: "seems desktop-* targets of kubuntu is broken or point of odd directories. it has to be fixedbefore you make new changes". looks fine to me?
<bhuvan> robotgeek: it builds under ubuntu-doc/kubuntu/build/... it is wrong. it should be ubuntu-doc/build/..
<bhuvan> robotgeek: the issue exist for desktop-*
<robotgeek> bhuvan: okay, will fix
<bhuvan> nice
<jsgotangco> hmm
<jsgotangco> has anyone got a nice bluetooth guide
<robotgeek> jsgotangco: i saw something on the wiki which worked for me
* jsgotangco looks
<robotgeek> BluetoothSetup
<jsgotangco> that's pretty ugly but thanks
<Madpilot> jsgotangco, it's a wiki, fix it :P
<jsgotangco> yuck
<corey_> {{sofixit}} is the appropriate response to this
<jsgotangco> does our wiki hvae such templates?
<Madpilot> CategoryCleanup?
<jsgotangco> Madpilot, in mediawiki/wikipedia, there are status templates used all throughout
<jsgotangco> in nice colorful boxes
<robotgeek> bhuvan: even quickguide also builds in ubuntu-doc/kubuntu/build
<corey_> jsgotangco: nop, it doesn't
<bhuvan> oh ok. so, it needs to be fixed as well
* jsgotangco cries
<robotgeek> bhuvan: but it has a preview already?
<corey_> jsgotangco: this is just one reason why i want to switch
<bhuvan> robotgeek: not sure. check doc.ubuntu.com/kubuntu though
* jsgotangco has been so used to mediawiki templates on this wiki at work
<robotgeek> bhuvan: yes, it's in there
<Madpilot> jsgotangco, yeah, I know - only thing we've got is catcleanup. I missed the <mild sarcasm> tag :P
<robotgeek> bhuvan: also status is built in doc/kubuntu/builde
<corey_> jsgotangco: I believe we can do something similar. Ask mdke
<corey_> jsgotangco: one of the cool things about templates in mediawiki is that they can add a page to a category
<robotgeek> corey_: how easy/feasible is it to move from moin to mediawiki?
<jsgotangco> yeah
<corey_> so we could have {{cleanup}} - which adds a tag to the top of the page, saying that the page is fuggly and add the page to cat cleanup
<jsgotangco> {{cleanup}}
<corey_> robotgeek: the issue is mostly social
<jsgotangco> {{grammar}}
<jsgotangco> {{needs_testing}}
<corey_> ie, mdke and henrik don't want to
<robotgeek> corey_: :P
<bhuvan> robotgeek: seems almost all document are so.. i'm not sure whether it is intended or it is an issue
<robotgeek> bhuvan: maybe it's intended, let me not break what works :)
<jsgotangco> mediawiki's biggest strength aside from visual appeal of the doc is organization
<bhuvan> in general, all documents are build under ubuntu-doc/build. not sure why kubuntu is an exception
<corey_> mediawiki has the issue of being written in php
<robotgeek> bhuvan: hmm, okay
<jsgotangco> and mediawiki people aren't the greatest bug fixers for past versions
<corey_> actually, mediawiki is pretty good on the security side
<jsgotangco> its been better
<jsgotangco> i just love how organized it can be
<robotgeek> interesting...
<corey_> jsgotangco: actually, they are pretty good
<robotgeek> wohoo, my first commit
<robotgeek> alrite, on that victorious note, i am off to bed!
<Madpilot> likewise, actually. Just did a UDG commit, now I need sleep :P
<mdke> morning
<mdke> robotgeek_zzz, i'll take a look at the not building stuff
<robotgeek_zzz> mdke: morning
<mdke> it's the web target we need to work
<robotgeek_zzz> mdke: well, that seemed to be a system, issue
<mdke> oh right
<robotgeek_zzz> and all the web targets work on my machine
<mdke> ok fine
<robotgeek_zzz> it's okay for them to build in ubuntu-doc/kubuntu/build, right?
<mdke> yeah, I think that it what Riddell wants
<mdke> i've lost track of the kubuntu stuff a bit because it uses a different system
* robotgeek_zzz thanks quick-guide, lol
<robotgeek_zzz> i would have been lost without it, seriously
<robotgeek_zzz> anyways, night mdke 
<mdke> night
<corey_> I wish I had that pcmcia wireless card still
<corey_> they I could tell whether or not this wireless bug is my card or the router
<jsgotangco> can anyone verify on dapper that root terminal under system made a comeback
<corey_> jsgotangco: yep, just saw that
<corey_> jsgotangco: it is a bug I assume
<jsgotangco> right
<corey_> night all
<pschulz01> Greeting, I have Ubuntu running on my Mac Mini.. and I would like to add some documentation to the Wiki on this system.. where is the best place to start?
<jsgotangco> matt galvin used to handle PPC documentation
<jsgotangco> hmm
<mdke> pschulz01, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WikiGuide
<pschulz01> There are several pages.. and the information seems to be spread around a bit..
<pschulz01> UbuntuOnMac, HardwareSupportMachinesLaptopsApple, HardwareSupportMachinesLaptops, HardwareSupportMachinesDesktops
<mdke> the HardwareSupport pages are not documentation
<mdke> i don't know about the others
<mdke> feel free to integrate your guide with any existing material :)
<pschulz01> Cheers
<Mez> rd
<jsgotangco> jdub: is that your home phone?
<EricNeon> hi all
<EricNeon> anybody seen mark ?
<jsgotangco> online?
<EricNeon> yes
<jsgotangco> he's online on the -devel channel but he's probably busy since he's not chatty at the moment
<EricNeon> I will talk about ubuntu china team with him
<jsgotangco> he went to beijing and shanghai you didnt get to meet him?
<EricNeon> yes , we meet him
<EricNeon> we talk over ubuntu in China
<EricNeon> and I sent him a resume of ubuntu-cn team
<EricNeon> then we waiting for his reply, but no~
<EricNeon> we are preparing Dapper Release Party in Shanghai
<jsgotangco> aren't we all :)
<EricNeon> 'we' is meens Ubuntu-CN
<jsgotangco> yes i'm very much aware of that :P
<EricNeon> we are all fretfully
<EricNeon> my god 
<EricNeon> test what 
<jsgotangco> compiled kernel :)
<EricNeon> oh
<WaterSevenUb> mdke, do you know if the OMF files that ship with ubuntu-doc have to be translated manually? I mean, the strings are not in any way imported from rosetta somewhere?
<mdke> WaterSevenUb, they will be included in the template for each document in rosetta
<WaterSevenUb> mdke, for dapper? in breezy they weren't, right?
<mdke> this is a change from breezy, where they are untranslated
<mdke> right
<WaterSevenUb> ok
<WaterSevenUb> great.
* mdke thinks its time to get a News out
<mdke> jsgotangco, jjesse, what's new in kubuntu docs world (except for the desktop guide initiative)?
<jsgotangco> i got nothing to say about kubuntu at the moment since i just finished the g-a-i manual and currently working on having an edubuntu quickguide
<jsgotangco> the desktop guide will most likely be more feasible than the quickguide if it gets completed
<jsgotangco> i did a very very minor change in u-m as well
<robotgeek_zzz> jsgotangco: the status is now viewable online
<robotgeek_zzz> http://doc.ubuntu.com/kubuntu/status/kdg-report.html
<mdke> jsgotangco, ok
<jsgotangco> robotgeek_zzz, i'm in favor of pushing it instaed of the quickguide since it'll get redundant if we have both i think
<robotgeek_zzz> jsgotangco: hmm, maybe not
<jsgotangco> hmm that's still a lot of stuff to be done
<robotgeek> jsgotangco: i have to correct the status tags :)
<jsgotangco> we're supposed to have a meeting later but i doubt if i'll be awake at that time
<jsgotangco> no one added an agenda item lol
<robotgeek> jsgotangco: it is done for the most part, except for the help wanted sections
<robotgeek> i'll fix the status tags right away
<mdke> ok, i've added some things to the newsletter: please add any other things I've forgotten and I'll send it off later
<mdke> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/News2?action=show
<robotgeek> mdke: you missed out TOdd Lambert's heavy wiki editing
<mdke> robotgeek, add it in
* mdke briefly scans the mailing list, can't see much else
<jjesse> jsgotangco: sorry i was out at lunch
<jjesse> jsgotangco: the goal is to get the desktop guide done by release, robotgeek has been working away at it quite well
<jsgotangco> cool
<jsgotangco> i should get some sleep
<jsgotangco> :/
<jsgotangco> real life has been hard on me lately
<jsgotangco> :)
<jjesse> i know how that goes
<jsgotangco> lol
<jjesse> riddell would love to get the desktop guide published in time :) -- no pressure robotgeek
<robotgeek> jjesse: other than the help wanted sections, the rest are ok
<jjesse> cool i'll start reviewing it and add comments
<robotgeek> jjesse: cool, thanks
<jsgotangco> jjesse, you done in your book contribution?
<robotgeek> brb
<mdke> jjesse, any other kubuntu related news for the newsletter? 
<jjesse> jsgotangco: i've done 2 drafts and have some things to change
<jjesse> mdke: work on the adept guide has started again
<jjesse> mdke: updating for all the changes that have taken place and working on getting it moved upstream to kde docs
<mdke> cool, I'll add that, or will you?
<jjesse> can you? i'm a little busy right now at work
<mdke> sure thing
<mdke> jjesse, did you upload it already? or is the old version still online?
<jjesse> old version is still online, i'm basically rewriing the whole thing
<mdke> ok
<jjesse> there have been so many changes made, adept-notifier, adept-updater and adept-installer all have changed
<robotgeek> jjesse: yeah, i was waiting to verify comments on that
<robotgeek> err, my statement on that. i mentioned it in comments
* robotgeek needs to get coffee, lol
<jjesse> ooo Kubuntu espresso :)  https://wiki.kubuntu.org/KubuntuEspresso
<mdke> good news
<jsgotangco> i'm most likely not to attend the meeting so its up to you guys
<jsgotangco> i gotta sleep (almost 2am)
* robotgeek sees topic
<mdke> well, there are no agenda items
<robotgeek> mdke: i can add kdg, but i would not know what to discuss
<mdke> well, no need, if there isn't anything to discuss
<robotgeek> :)
<robotgeek> mdke: do you know of a console yelp :P
<mdke> no
<mdke> the validate script helps to see if the xml is valid though
<robotgeek> yeah, i did not want to vnc into my box
<robotgeek> hey LaserJock 
<LaserJock> hi robotgeek 
<jjesse> robotgeek: the adept guide is referenced in the dg is that correct?
<robotgeek> jjesse: yup
<jjesse> robotgeek: hopefully this weekend i'll have some time while i do a file server migration
<robotgeek> i am planning to put khelp:// links to all applications mentioned
<LaserJock> umm, do we have any agenda items for the meeting today?
<robotgeek> jjesse: other than the update kubuntu section, i think the add-applications chapter is done
<jjesse> robotgeek: awesome, its so nice to have more then one peroosn doiong kubntu docs :)
<robotgeek> jjesse: yup :)
<LaserJock> hi theCore 
* robotgeek thinks the tips need to go together, lol
<theCore> LaserJock: hello LaserJock
<theCore> I am up again!
<LaserJock> great
<jjesse_meeting> robotgeek: any thoughts about posting on the kubuntu forums and asking for comments on the desktop guide like we did for ubuntu desktop guide?
<robotgeek> jjesse_meeting: yes, that would be a good idea
<robotgeek> jjesse: i think we should wait till the page is actually generated online
<jjesse> agreed thought it was
<robotgeek> jjesse: i think sometime in the last one hour
<robotgeek> it did get generated :)
<robotgeek> http://doc.ubuntu.com/kubuntu/desktopguide-web/C/index.html
<robotgeek> jjesse: maybe after 24 hours, i am updating status tags and stuff
<jjesse> ok
<robotgeek> jjesse: is it a good idea to link to the applications help page?
<CarlFK> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu says "doing a server install of Ubuntu" - anyone have a URL for how to do that?  
<jjesse> CarlFK: just type server at the install, check out #ubuntu for support or #ubuntu-server
<CarlFK> I know how, but trying to answer some q;s
<CarlFK> #ubuntu-server - didn't know aobut that -thanks
<LaserJock> mdke: are we going to have a meeting today?
<Burgwork> woot! first drafts are off
<mdke> LaserJock, i don't think so
<mdke> LaserJock, nothing on the agenda anyway
<LaserJock> mdke: ok :(
<mdke> LaserJock, did you have something?
<LaserJock> not really, I just wondered if we could have some sort of status report
<LaserJock> maybe I'll try to whip up an agenda item for next time, it is kinda short notice if I add something now
<mdke> yeah, ok
<robotgeek> mdke: do you want to me comment out Kubuntu User Guide in doc.ubuntu.com 
<manicka> I believe naaman wants to discuss his wikicleanup proposal
<LaserJock> manicka: is he going to be around?
<manicka> he said last night that he would be
<LaserJock> ok, so maybe we can have a quick meeting and maybe plan some items for next time?
<manicka> sounds good :)
<robotgeek> mdke: around?
<robotgeek> manicka: ping
<manicka> yo
<robotgeek> http://doc.ubuntu.com/kubuntu/status/kdg-report.html 
<robotgeek> manicka: feel free to review/ add stuff to "in progress"/"help wanted"
<robotgeek> :)
<manicka> will do :)
<robotgeek> alrite, later then
<LaserJock> Doc team meeting anyone?
<manicka> bustacap... meeting?
<mdke> robotgeek, hi. No, I think you should have it in the menu
<robotgeek> mdke: okay, i did not comment it
<mdke> cool
<robotgeek> mdke: #ubuntu-meeting
<robotgeek> i just added desktop-guide to the list
<mdke> i can't hang around for a meeting I'm afraid
<mdke> especially a meeting without agenda items :)
<robotgeek> mdke: okay, bustacap is here 
<mdke> hi bustacap 
<bustacap> hello mdke
<mdke> nice to see you back here :)
<bustacap> haha I just looked into this channel
<bustacap> yeah..
<mdke> fraid I can't hang around much
<bustacap> join the meeting mdke
<mdke> i've been neglecting my girlfriend because of an exam at work, so I'm going to go offline
<mdke> sorry
<LaserJock> robotgeek: around?
<robotgeek> yeah LaserJock 
#ubuntu-doc 2006-03-09
<LaserJock> sorry, I was in a meeting
<LaserJock> I think that it would be good to probably split the common stuff into ubuntu and kubuntu
<LaserJock> I think the doc systems are different enough that it might be a pain to try to make it work for both
<LaserJock> what do you think>
<LaserJock> ?
<robotgeek> LaserJock: just mailed the group actually :)
<robotgeek> list, rather
<LaserJock> oh, ok great
<robotgeek> LaserJock: i'm okay with separate common documents for ubuntu / kubuntu separately
<LaserJock> I think the original proposal was just to encourage writers to use common material when possible
<LaserJock> because before I think it was basically each doc had it's own preface, etc.
<robotgeek> LaserJock: yeah, it makes a lot of sense
<robotgeek> maybe i should just add to my email
<robotgeek> LaserJock: done: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-doc/2006-March/thread.html
<mdke> robotgeek, we (ubuntu) are using the preface already, the desktop guide doesn't have a different one anymore
<mdke> we decided via the mailing list a couple of weeks back
<robotgeek> mdke: oh okay, sorry
<mdke> you can go ahead and use it too if it is appropriate
<LaserJock> mdke: i think that the problem is that Kubuntu uses a different system
<robotgeek> mdke: i'll strip out the headers and use it, no problem
<mdke> which headers?
<LaserJock> Riddell took out the xincludes
<mdke> either the content is appropriate or not, i think
<mdke> LaserJock, there are no xincludes in the common preface file
<mdke> iirc
<robotgeek> mdke: no, there is one
<LaserJock> mdke: you right
<mdke> oh but that doesn't matter
<robotgeek> okay, basically the entities also
<mdke> that's just the xinclude module
<mdke> does that cause problems?
<robotgeek> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/9692
<LaserJock> robotgeek: why are they removed?
<robotgeek> LaserJock: i am not sure, but Ridell said something about meinproc not being able to handle them
<mdke> because the stupid kde tools don't read them
<LaserJock> ok, so what about the generic docs?
<robotgeek> it works fine without the entities and stuff
<robotgeek> brb
<mdke> LaserJock, yeah
<mdke> robotgeek, what produces those errors?
<LaserJock> meinproc?
<mdke> it looks like its caused by bad addresses
<LaserJock> looking at the -doc email
<mdke> i'm thinking the validate script
<mdke> hmm
<robotgeek> yeah, the validate script
<mdke> i might take a look tomorrow
<mdke> i wonder how riddell builds the serverguide using meinproc
<mdke> i don't understand the insistence on meinproc myself :/
<robotgeek> mdke: it think it's cause all kde-docs use it?
<mdke> there are real reasons too
<mdke> but I don't think they are that important
<mdke> but then again, I don't use kde so I don't know much about how the help system works
<robotgeek> mdke: it's very nice, imho
<robotgeek> yelp is awesome too. 
<robotgeek> readind xml files directly is very nice
<mdke> well I need to look at the difference between the html that xsltproc produces and the html that meinproc produces, but I don't _think_ there can be a significant difference
<robotgeek> true
<mdke> -> bed
<robotgeek> later mdke 
<mdke> if you wrinkle out those validation errors, go ahead and commit
<robotgeek> i'll not touch it for now then
<robotgeek> mdke: it validates when i remove the stuff before it
<mdke> sure, the problem must be with the addresses of those entities
<mdke> we'll figure it out
<mdke> night
<robotgeek> maybe a simple solution is to put that in ../../libs just like the fdl.xml
<robotgeek> anyways, it can wait, no need to hurry
<Madpilot> hi robotgeek 
<robotgeek> hey Madpilot 
<robotgeek> Madpilot: howz it goin?
<Madpilot> OK - lots of stupid scriptmorons on #ubuntu, though  - you've heard about the IRC exploits?
<robotgeek> yeah, the netgear / linksys thing?
<robotgeek> it's a good thing i'm using irssi over ssh, i do have a netgear router
<Madpilot> the d c c crap
<robotgeek> yeah, i read about it in lilo's blog
<Madpilot> he's going nuts kline'ing people who use it
<robotgeek> heh
<robotgeek> Madpilot: can you try it for me in /msg :)
<Madpilot> I don't actually have the last episode in #ubuntu on backscroll anymore
<Madpilot> so you're safe :P
<robotgeek> Madpilot: hmm, okay :)
<robotgeek> my router wouldn't recognize the evil words anyways
<Madpilot> because you're tunneling SSH, not using IRC directly?
<robotgeek> yeah
<Madpilot> useful
<robotgeek> shell does have it's advantages
<Madpilot> hey, I finally got Xchat configured the way I want it - it only took about four evenings of occasional fiddling :P
<robotgeek> nice, it took me way longer with irssi
<Madpilot> mostly re-arranging the rightclick menu to get the op tools & such into a useful order
<robotgeek> i just had to get my aliases in order, /kk /kkk /kkkk in order of severity :)
<Madpilot> I've got whois, devoice & kickban at the top, then the usual XChat menus below - stuff like D.C.C & CTCP that I never use I shoved to the bottom
<robotgeek> Madpilot: what does devoice do? mute a person?
<Madpilot> yes, it's mode +q
<Madpilot> nice for giant floods, gentler than just kicking the poor noob :P
<robotgeek> Madpilot: i am not sure if irssi's /devoice mode is the same, it sets +v
<Madpilot> I don't honestly know enough about IRC commands to know what, if any, difference there is...
<crimsun> you probably meant -v
<robotgeek> yeah, -v
<crimsun> +q is muzzling, which is the same effect as -v regardless whether the channel is moderated (+m)
<crimsun> on an unmoderated channel (-m), -v has no noticeable effect
<crimsun> another way to think of it is whitelisting (+q) vs. blacklisting (+m and -v)
<robotgeek> so, it would be useless on say #(k)ubuntu
* robotgeek goes to modify the irssi command
<crimsun> -v would be be pointless on {k}ubuntu, yes
<crimsun> (I don't foresee either channel going +m by default, that is)
<robotgeek> yeah, we went +m in #ubuntu-motu-school , once
<crimsun> yep
<Madpilot> so that people had to put their hand up to speak? :P
<crimsun> yeah, there were conduits (sh and siretart iirc)
* mdke cracks and installs kubuntu
<mdke> i've had enough of not understanding this meinproc crap
<jpatrick> meinproc keeps displaying errors here
<Kamping_Kaiser> meinproc?
<Kamping_Kaiser> sounds like a rammstein song <grin>
<jpatrick> KDE Translator for XML
<Kamping_Kaiser> neat.
<mdke> it builds html from xml
<mdke> but it doesn't support xincludes, one of our heavily used features, which is a major issue
<mdke> I'm going to see if I can make riddell happy by building the exact same html using xsltproc instead of meinproc
<mdke> oh great. kubuntu-desktop is uninstallable
<Kamping_Kaiser> i think I'm a bit out of my depth, but i get the idea i think
<jpatrick> mdke: you mean that nice brown ubuntu theme but blue?
<jpatrick> what's wrong with it?
<mdke> jpatrick, the kubuntu-desktop package is uninstallable
<jpatrick> but why?
* mdke switches to #kubuntu
* jpatrick follows
<Kamping_Kaiser> is there a brown theme for Kubuntu?
<Kamping_Kaiser> mdke: your running dapper? are you getting PNP errrors on boot?
<mdke> Kamping_Kaiser, yes, it's in the bug tracker.
<Kamping_Kaiser> ok.
<Kamping_Kaiser> hm. I'm getting your KDE thing as well, i think it's https://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/33533
<jpatrick> openoffice update issue
<mdke> hmm it's not bad this kubuntu lark
<jpat|away> lark...
<mdke> so irritating the popups which come up over the panel though
<jpat|away> never seen those
<mdke> hover your mouse over a panel application applet, or window
<mdke> this crazy popup slides up
<jpat|away> oh those!
<mdke> they block the window I'm looking at >_<
<jpat|away> configure panel -> appearance -> show tooltips
<mdke> ok I reckon we can do this without meinproc
<mdke> thanks
<carthik> Is the meeting over?
<carthik> I suppose it is :)
<robotgeek> carthik: hey
<robotgeek> carthik: you are about 24 hours late :P
<carthik> hey robotgeek - wondering if, for the cleanup, there is some way to delete/rename pages, or if I can be of help
<carthik> robotgeek, the channel message made me think it was prolly a typo in the date
<robotgeek> carthik: yeah, to delete you click actions and delete
<robotgeek> carthik: however, google the page first to see if any external site links to the article
<carthik> robotgeek, alright. how about renaming/redirecting mediawiki style?
<robotgeek> carthik: you just say #redirect target
<robotgeek> carthik: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HelpOnProcessingInstructions?highlight=%28redirect%29
<carthik> robotgeek, thank you. maybe i can move in some more of the stuff from that blog i have
<carthik> or cleanup the pages requiring cleanup
<robotgeek> carthik: for example take a look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocbookVim?action=show
<carthik> cool, robotgeek 
<robotgeek> i gotta run, later
<carthik> thanks, robotgeek , later.
#ubuntu-doc 2006-03-10
<Burgundavia> talk people!
<LaserJock> blah, blah, blah ;-)
<Burgundavia> indeed, thank you
<crimsun> huh? /media/-1 ? How ... usefully named.
<Burgundavia> yes, I noticed that as well
<poningru> blah
<Burgundavia> you people are so excitingb
<poningru> going through https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WikiToDo
<poningru> shouldnt we remove some of those?
<poningru> cause they look good to me
<poningru> or are no longer usefull
<poningru> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AptAuthenticationInstructionsForHoary
<Burgundavia> that refers to Hoary in the title
<Burgundavia> and thus is bad
<poningru> yeah
<poningru> so should I just remove out of date pages like that from the todo list?
<poningru> Burgundavia??
<Burgundavia> poningru: pages do not get removed from cleanup just because they are old. And any, Hoary is still supported
<Burgundavia> we can consider dropping warty specific information post april
<poningru> oh true
<Burgundavia> bustacap: pong
<bustacap> Burgundavia, ping
<LaserJock> hmm, I thought it went the other way around ;-)
<bustacap> LaserJock, or was he commenting about my BO?
<Burgundavia> bustacap: I just got your pm
<Burgundavia> bustacap: will respond there
<bustacap> k
<Madpilot> hi all
<bustacap> hey Mad-to-the-P
<Burgundavia> salut Madpilot
<Madpilot> Burgundavia, want to have a look through the networking & partitioning sections of the Ubuntu Desktop Guide? Those aren't sections I know anything about, and they just need a quick review
<Burgundavia> Madpilot: sure, I will before string freeze
<Madpilot> cool
<Madpilot> less than 20 days until string freeze, don't forget! :
<Madpilot> :P
<Burgundavia> indeed, I am well aware
<Burgundavia> I am about to boot into Windows because I have some work in Corel Draw to do for work
<Madpilot> yikes - remember to stay off the web
<Madpilot> you can't do the work in Inkscape?
<Burgundavia> it is editing something somebody else in the company created
<Madpilot> ah
<Burgundavia> the svg export by corel draw sucked
<Burgundavia> plus inkscape has crappy pdf support
<Madpilot> it does indeed
<LaserJock> Burgundavia: really? what is wrong with it
<Burgundavia> LaserJock: is very lossy
<LaserJock> ah
<Burgundavia> LaserJock: Madpilot: add your names to the poll here http://wiki.inkscape.org/wiki/index.php/PrintingConsensusPoll
<LaserJock> yeah, I hate it when it looks great on the screen and then you go to print it or turn it into a pdf and it looks like crap
<Madpilot> and Scribus has wonderful PDF support but it's SVG support is still a bit odd...
<Burgundavia> LaserJock: do you have a dapper machine with all the gstreamer plugins available?
<LaserJock> Burgundavia: well, I've got a dapper machine. I don't know what all I've got for gstreamer
<LaserJock> need a test of something?
<Burgundavia> http://www.dvdcca.org/faq.html
<Burgundavia> http://www.dvdcca.org/faq.html
<Burgundavia> http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5160542
<Burgundavia> third time lucky ;)
<Burgundavia> anyway, I have to do that windows work. Ugh
<robotgeek> Madpilot: i'm going to add a mplayer full screen tip too
<Madpilot> robotgeek, hmm?
<robotgeek> Madpilot: mplayer doesn't fullscreen by default, the video doesn't zoom out
<Madpilot> OK - is mplayer Kubuntu's default video player?
<robotgeek> Madpilot: hmm, i forgot about that. lol
<robotgeek> it's kaffeine
<Madpilot> does kaff do full screen?
<robotgeek> Madpilot: yeah, kaff does fine. but lots of ppl install firefox + mplayer plugin
<Madpilot> right
<robotgeek> Madpilot: maybe useful for you, on second thought not very useful to kdg since i don't cover firefox at all
<Madpilot> robotgeek, right, I always forget about the browser stuff. Add it, and copy it across to UDG, then?
<robotgeek> Madpilot: i'll maybe send you a patch.
<Madpilot> sure, or just let me know where it is in KDG, and I can copy it myself
<robotgeek> Madpilot: zoom = yes in ~/.mplayer/mplayer.conf 
<robotgeek> one line, that's it
<Madpilot> robotgeek, have you added an mplayer plugin section to KDG? there's nothing about it in UDG
<robotgeek> no, i havent added any
<robotgeek> it's the beers, i tell ya :P
<Madpilot> beer + documentation writing = not a good idea :P
<Madpilot> That's why I'm not docwriting this evening, I'm just being a grouchy op in #ubuntu 
<robotgeek> heh
<robotgeek> i fixed lots of bugs in EU
<robotgeek> plus, now i am building freenx for powerpc
<mdke> morning
<Madpilot> hi
<mdke> Madpilot, how's it going?
<Madpilot> pretty good
<mdke> cool
<theCore> LaserJock: ok that's the good one
<theCore> LaserJock: is it just me, or packaging is really easy ?
<theCore> the hard thing seem to get the packages into the repo
<LaserJock> hmm, well it depends
<LaserJock> but yes the REVU process can take a whie
<LaserJock> while I mean
#ubuntu-doc 2006-03-11
* Kyral is away: Shower!
<Madpilot> hi robitaille 
<robitaille> hi Madpilot 
<robotgeek> hey Madpilot robitaille 
<robitaille> Hi robotgeek 
* robotgeek is writing a k3b section
<robotgeek> Madpilot: do you think it's a good idea to just link to howto's in the kde help menu?
<kgoetz> robotgeek: anything you want checked especialy?
<Madpilot> why not, if someone's already done some work for you, and they're good howtos?
<robotgeek> Madpilot: they are pretty good
<robotgeek> i'll just tell them what to install, and point them to the guides
<robotgeek> kgoetz: http://doc.ubuntu.com/kubuntu/status/kdg-report.html
<kgoetz> robotgeek: so lots of 'awaiting review' is this a case of 'use it and see if it works', or do you need detailed feedback?
<robotgeek> kgoetz: mostly it should be correct, typos anything really
<robotgeek> kgoetz: basically, if it is wrong, tell me!
<kgoetz> ok :)
<robotgeek> kgoetz: get the svn however, and look it up there
* kgoetz scps svn off desktop to box with kubuntu 
<kgoetz> brb. changing into ubuntu for scp :)
<robotgeek> kgoetz: can you wait for about 5 minutes, i'll commit my changes
<robotgeek> kgoetz: or svn up after 5 minutes again :)
<kgoetz> <grin> robotgeek it will take 5 min to copy i expect :)
<Madpilot> robotgeek, a day or two ago I noticed that there was still a lot of Gnome-specific stuff in KDG, leftovers from UDG. Is that gone?
<kgoetz> is it possible to scp over a cron job? or do they have to be entered by hand?
<robotgeek> Madpilot: was it the last chapter?
<Madpilot> yeah, the tips section - which is gone in UDG, btw
<robotgeek> Madpilot: umm, okay. lemme take a deeper look. after i make these changes
<robotgeek> thanks for the heads up :)
<Madpilot> np
<Madpilot> robotgeek, you've also got a lot of the graphics cards/3d stuff tagged as Help Wanted - can't that be a straight copy from UDG?
<robotgeek> Madpilot: only to verify the menu entries, i guess
<robotgeek> they won't install for me, i am ppc
* robotgeek should have commented in the source, btwe
<Madpilot> are there Kubuntu Dapper LiveCDs ISOs somewhere? I should pull one down, if I can
<kgoetz> Madpilot: got room fora chroot? its actualy reasonably easy
<Madpilot> not in my root partition currently
<robotgeek> Madpilot: cdimage.ubuntu.com
* kgoetz just made his kubuntu chroot in his home
<Madpilot> Kubuntu Flight4 torrent started
<robotgeek> i need to get a image myself, i think
<robotgeek> i have no clue as to how the default install looks/works
<Madpilot> heh. That's one problem, we tweak all our installs because we know how, to some degree, and don't get the default experience
<Madpilot> LiveCDs are useful for that
<kgoetz> robotgeek: you made that commit? (not rushing you, just wondering)
<robotgeek> kgoetz: 2 more minutes, just validation errors
<kgoetz> what do you use to look at the svn repo in kde? not yelp i just discovered
<robotgeek> kgoetz: you can use yelp
<robotgeek> kgoetz: commited
* kgoetz doesnt have yelp installed - is that wrong?
<robotgeek> kgoetz: it's a gnome thing, install it for quick and dirty xml file viewing
<kgoetz> nothing in kubuntu to do the job?
<robotgeek> kgoetz: not unless you want to convert xml to html
<kgoetz> hm.
* kgoetz installs yelp
* kgoetz grits teeth and actualy installs yelp this time
<Madpilot> anyone know what's with the numbered wikinames lately? There's been a whole raft of edits by folks with exciting nicks like "215" and "220"
<Madpilot> and "S0106000d88b9f3db" - hope that doesn't have to get typed out too often...
<robotgeek> Madpilot: weird, 130 61 214 also
<Madpilot> the 215-220 stuff reminds me of class stuff - I remember in wikipedia there was an entire class signed up at once, with sequential nicks like that
<Madpilot> some 1st year uni journalism class, or something
<robotgeek> ChinthakaDeshapriya is the guy, i am not sure what's happening and why
<Madpilot> actually, at least part of that looks like some sort of wiki error - because there are NO familiar nicks in the RecentChanges list
<Madpilot> yeah, it's some odd error
<Madpilot> "S0106000d88b9f3db" is actually me, it's a RestrictedFormats edit I did earlier today
<Madpilot> the bottom of RestrictedFormats still has my nick... WTF?
<Madpilot> nevermind, I just force-reloaded and it's all back to normal... what was that?
<mdke> robotgeek, did you have any luck using the preface.xml? I don't understand wy
<mdke> why the preface.xml doesn't work and the legal files work
<mdke> they are identical AFAICS
<kgoetz>  bblish
<robotgeek> mdke: did not bother, just removed the headers and put in libs/preface.xml
<robotgeek> in ubuntu-doc/kubuntu/libs to be precise
<mdke> ok
<mdke> so weird
<mdke> why on earth do the licenses work fine
<mdke> >_<
<mdke> robotgeek, just reading scrollback, if you do internal links to the kde help documentation, be careful about what happens when we put the documents online
<robotgeek> mdke: hmm, they don't work
<robotgeek> :P
<mdke> right. Maybe it's best not to link, but to refer to the document with words?
<mdke> we have the same problem with the gnome stuff.
<robotgeek> mdke: hmm, i can link online?
<mdke> sure
<robotgeek> mdke: docs.kde.org also has it mirrored
<rob> hello mdke 
<mdke> robotgeek, sounds good
<mdke> robotgeek, hiya
<mdke> gah
<mdke> rob, hiya
<rob> heh
<robotgeek> mdke: should i retain the khelp links?
<robotgeek> hey rob 
<rob> hi robotgeek 
<mdke> robotgeek, those won't work online, I presume
<robotgeek> mdke: no, i can say <ulink url="khelp://blah"> offline link </ulink>
<robotgeek> along with the online link
<rob> mdke, do you know much about www.raiclick.it (I'm assuming .it = italian)?
<rob> god bless babelfish
<mdke> robotgeek, ok, if you think it'll make sense in the online version
<mdke> rob, yes, it = italian
<robotgeek> mdke: i don't want people without internet to lose out :P
<mdke> robotgeek, yeah I know.
<mdke> rob, rai is the state managed television network. that page is a "what's new on rai" sort of thing
<rob> ah, I see. Someone at work mentioned it today, I'm guessing all the shows are in italian too
<mdke> yes
<rob> dam my lack of education about other-then-English languages
<mdke> heh
<mdke> it's not the greatest television in the world
<rob> the guy at work I mentioned downloads around 90gig a month from there
<mdke> odd chap
<mdke> is he italian? maybe he is homesick
<rob> yeah, I'm thinking that
<rob> he copies them for his parents too
<rob> he didn't mention he was
<rob> I did watch a french horror movie last night though, although I couldn't understand a word of it the movie was better then a lot of other horror movies I've seen lately (tried the english dub, couldn't stand that)
<robitaille> what was the title?
<rob> umm.. High Tension
<rob> in English at least
<mdke> --> work
<robitaille> humm...never heard of that movie.  But I'm not watching so many french movies nowadays
<robotgeek> Madpilot: i've lost the tips and tricks chapter in kdg too
<robotgeek> not today, previously
<Madpilot> robotgeek, it's still in SVN, and still full of Gnome-specific tricks
<robotgeek> http://doc.ubuntu.com/kubuntu/desktopguide-web/C/index.html 
<robotgeek> ignore chapter4, other than that i think i've gotten to all
<Madpilot> there's still a tips-and-tricks.xml in your directory of our SVN, though - are you just leaving it out of the build scripts?
<robotgeek> Madpilot: oops, yeah. i need to delete that
<robotgeek> thanks!
<Madpilot> np - you had me confused for a while there :P
<robotgeek> same here!
<Madpilot> I hadn't realized that "Kubuntu" actually meant something, thought it was just "KDE + Ubuntu". Cool.
<mdke> it was accidental, I believe
<mdke> pretty cool tho
<Madpilot> heh
<kgoetz> Madpilot: you reading the starter guide?
<Madpilot> kgoetz, Kubuntu Desktop Guide
<kgoetz> *sp ;P
* kgoetz views it also
<Madpilot> robotgeek, style suggestion: http://doc.ubuntu.com/kubuntu/desktopguide-web/C/add-applications.html <-- here, loose the sentence "You may also wish to increase the number of programs available to install through your package managers." - it just repeats what's said better in the next two sentences
* robotgeek suggests svn updating
<Madpilot> ...that's what I get for reading the out-of-date website version, isn't it? :P
<robotgeek> Madpilot: oh no, not you
<robotgeek> i'm going to lose the thing,
* kgoetz wonders if 1.1.7 is correct - para 2 o_0 
<robotgeek> Madpilot: i lost the thing, i will commit with next change
<kgoetz> will kubuntu be shipping cds as of dapper (i heard it will?)
* mdke has a look at bulking up the Office section of the Desktop Guide
<Madpilot> mdke, I know OpenOffice is mentioned in the intro, but it's odd that our Office section doesn't mention it at all...
<mdke> i'm adding it now
<mdke> and gnome-office too
<Madpilot> good
<Madpilot> mdke, we should try and tie into that set of example documents that's being prepped for Dapper
<mdke> Madpilot, what do you have in mind?
<Madpilot> something like, "To see some of what you can do in <app>, see the example content <in filesystem>" - for stuff like OO Present, maybe
<Madpilot> Impress, rather
<mdke> hmm good idea. we can wait and see how they tie the example content into the applications
<mdke> Madpilot, by the way I saw your comment about gnucash and menu entries. For an example of what I've been doing for programs without menu entries, check out dvdrip
<mdke> tell me if you think that is reasonable
<Madpilot> mdke, yeah, that works.
<mdke> cool
* robotgeek is considering getting rid of dvdrip method inview of easier way with k3b
<robotgeek> http://docs.kde.org/stable/en/extragear-multimedia/k3b/howtos.html#videointroduction
<Madpilot> k3b rips DVD too?
<mdke> robotgeek, what is the default way to do it with the desktop?
<robotgeek> mdke: i don't follow
<robotgeek> mdke: what do you mean?
<mdke> is there a dvdripper with the desktop?
<mdke> installed by default
<robotgeek> mdke: hmm, k3b does it on kde
<mdke> sounds good then
<kgoetz> ping robotgeek?
<robotgeek> pong kgoetz 
<kgoetz> when do you want feedback? and do you want diffs for any sugestions?
<robotgeek> kgoetz: anytime, diffs would be great!
<kgoetz> ill try and get you something tonight (my tonight ;D), no promices about usefullness:)
<robotgeek> kgoetz: do you have a digital camera?
<kgoetz> robotgeek: one up at the house, yeh
<mdke> Madpilot, Ok I've committed the office stuff. Take a look whenever
<robotgeek> kgoetz: might be useful to verify the digital camera section, i wrote one without having one, lol
<kgoetz> lol. right... ;) i usualy use mine as a mass storage device, but i will look at the camera section :)
<kgoetz> jebediah <- is taht a biblical name? just wondering (noticed it in the docs)
<Madpilot> mdke, I just skimmed the commit email, it looks good.
<mdke> Madpilot, cool
<mdke> what else needs doing?
<Madpilot> not sure - I'll have another look thru it tomorrow
<mdke> damn the guide is good
<mdke> perhaps the Internet section needs a bit of love
<mdke> oh and games
<Madpilot> games could do with a few intro blurbs - what is Frozen-Bubble, etc
<Madpilot> so could some of the other sections, actually
* mdke nods
<robotgeek> Madpilot: thanks for the suggestion, committed
<Madpilot> robotgeek, np
<robotgeek> -> bed
<mdke> night
<kgoetz> later mate
<mdke> what's English for "spatial mode"?
<Madpilot> "barfing lots of windows all over the place"
<kgoetz> which one is that again?
<kgoetz> oh, lol
<Madpilot> it's a Nautilus setting
<mdke> hmm
<kgoetz> i remember the pain when it got removed (lists went crazy), i just wasnt sure what it meant ;)
<mdke> i can't use the word "barf"
<Madpilot> :D
<Madpilot> why not?
<mdke> well, I could
<mdke> good point
<crimsun> no, but you can use the verb to open
<mdke> "How to make nautilus open windows all over the place"?
<Madpilot> "How to make Nautilus open one window per directory"?
<mdke> maybe it's "Window Mode"?
<Madpilot> you could compare it to MS's 'My Computer', which also chucks windows everywhere
<crimsun> or perhaps more precisely, "How to have Nautilus open a new window for each directory"
<mdke> hmm
<mdke> it's a bit long winded
<mdke> but it's better than "Spatial Mode"
<Madpilot> "How to enable the most irritating feature ever coded into Gnome" :P
<mdke> by several million percent
<mdke> Madpilot, if it's that irritating, we don't need to document it. But some people must like it, surely
<Madpilot> I guess they do, so we should document it. someone must have thought it was a good idea, to code it in the first place
<mdke> yep, and I think it's still in the preferences, which means it must be regarded as a really good idea
<mdke> oh, we need to rewrite the windows partition section too
<mdke> apparently it can be done in the hardware gui
<poningru> in the wiki can we have inpage template usage?
<poningru> make it for things like 'make sure to have your universe and multiverse repos turned on'
<poningru> etc
<Madpilot> poningru, macros, you mean?
<poningru> yeah I guess
<poningru> wikipedia calls it http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Template_messages
<mdke> Madpilot, ah, gnome-office includes planner, dia and inkscape too :)
<mdke> that's easy
<kgoetz> do we have/need a section on dpkg ?
<mdke> kgoetz, no, and no, I think
<kgoetz> mdke: ok
<mdke> are we going to document backports in the Desktop Guide?
<jsgotangco> it would be a good idea if writers still have time to add those
<mdke> yeah we can do it, I guess
<kgoetz> apart from adding them to list list of enableable repositories, what is there to write? background info?
<mdke> what it is, risks etc
<jsgotangco> as long as they use ubuntu backports i guess its ok, and treat them the same way as multiverse
<kgoetz> and dont upgrade between versions with them on :/ iv seen that before
<jsgotangco> argg malone spam :P
<mdke> the proper way to treat backports is treating them as the unstable distribution
<mdke> i think
<jsgotangco> that would be much better
<kgoetz> sounds good
<mdke> since they are simply packages from the unstable distribution, made for the current stable
<mdke> spam???
* mdke jumps on jsgotangco 
<jsgotangco> it must be nice to have lots of free time at work :D
<mdke> i don't have lots
<mdke> but today I am quite free
<jsgotangco> im currently somewhere waayyyyy down south with shitty internet
* mdke stops with malone
<jsgotangco> c'mon don't be shy :)
<mdke> there are no more bugs :(
<kgoetz> hehe
* kgoetz is making a list for KDG (KSG?)
<mdke> DG
<kgoetz> ok
<onkarshinde> Hello guys.
<onkarshinde> Need some advice
<mdke> onkarshinde, what sort of advice?
<onkarshinde> mdke: SOny Ericsson phones provide functionality for remote control over bluetooth. I am creating page foe this on wiki.
<mdke> onkarshinde, ok, ask away
<onkarshinde> I have created a configuration file to control Totem. I am just note sure where to put the file.
<mdke> you can paste it on the page, if it is short
<mdke> by the way, did you see: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BluetoothSetup?
<mdke> you might be able to integrate your page into that one
<onkarshinde> mdke: I checked that page. I don't think I can integrate my page with it.
<jsgotangco> onkarshinde, did you actually get it to work???
* jsgotangco has an SE phone too
<onkarshinde> The file is actually tar archive which contains an image and a configuration file. Also the configuration file is very large with almost every key on phone mapped to some command in Totem
<onkarshinde> jsgotangco: Yes I did.
* jsgotangco has a presentation in a few days and would kiss you if he gets it to work
<onkarshinde> jsgotangco: The Presentation profile provised by default doesn't seem to woth in OOo impress. The Desktop cinfiguration works. It is not very hard to create new configuration file.
<jsgotangco> oh
<jsgotangco> its still a good start
* jsgotangco really likes this feature in his k600i
<onkarshinde> jsgotangco: Many SE phones provide this functionality.
<onkarshinde> jsgotangco: Will upload Totem configuration somewhere in 5-10 minutes and will let you know.
<onkarshinde> jsgotangco: Here you go https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BluetoothRemote
<jsgotangco> wowee zoweee
<onkarshinde> This is my first page on Wiki. I hope the way content is represented is okay.
<jsgotangco> ahhh so the config file is just a simple xml file
<jsgotangco> the key bindings look very much the same with a k600i
<onkarshinde> jsgotangco: That is why I said it is easy to make it. But wouldn't it be good if everything is just two click install and run?
<jsgotangco> yes
<jsgotangco> on windows you just say you want an HID and it just works
<onkarshinde> jsgotangco: Windows XP works out of box. Windows 2k requires some application to handle HID.
<jsgotangco> i only tried XP
<onkarshinde> jsgotangco: Please try Totem configuration on Linux and add your phone to the list if it works.
<jsgotangco> yep i'll try it later
<onkarshinde> jsgotangco: Thanks.
<jsgotangco> thanks for the wiki page too!
<onkarshinde> jsgotangco: I am not sure how many other phones like Nokia or Motorola provide this functionality.
<jsgotangco> i have 3 bluetooth phones i can try
* jsgotangco has a nokia and wife has moto
<onkarshinde> jsgotangco: Of course for them configuration format will be somewhat different.
<jsgotangco> i'll look for them when i get to finish some stuff
<jsgotangco> but i can guess the k600 would run just like your config
<onkarshinde> jsgotangco: Yes. it would. And all other SE phones that provide this functionality
<kgoetz> robotgeek: i just went start to finish through the desktop guide. now i have my list of 'interesting' points, ill start doing diffs
* mdke struggles hard to think of a user friendly title for the backports section
<mdke> "Get your Crack Here" doesn't seem to ring true
<kgoetz> "Break my Ubuntu?" :)
<mdke> tricky
<kgoetz> hm.
<kgoetz> what does the title need to convey? "here be backports"?
<kgoetz> or something deeper?
<jsgotangco> Bleeding edge for your insatiable thirst
<mdke> it needs to say what they are, i guess
<mdke> Experimental New Packages, or something
<mdke> dammit, gnome-software-properties doesn't have a backports entry, afaics
<kgoetz> ping? anyone awake?
<kgoetz> i have a total of 60k of diffs. should i email them direct to robotgeek, or send a few emails to the list?
<mdke> whoa
<mdke> direct to him
<kgoetz> ok. thanks
<mdke> nice work
<kgoetz> wow. i think it even validated ;). ok. im sending email and crashing.3.30 am is after my bedtime :/
<kgoetz> ty
<kgoetz> night
<LaserJock> mdke: ping?
<mdke> LaserJock, yo
<LaserJock> mdke: the doc-base thing
<mdke> ah goody
<LaserJock> we can include a docbase file in the .deb
<LaserJock> but I'm not entirely sure what all that would give us
<LaserJock> but I do maintain a package with one
<LaserJock> mdke: a quick run down is at http://www.debian.org/doc/maint-guide/ch-dother.en.html#s-doc-base
<LaserJock> mdke: it seems mostly for HTML files. Are we shipping HTML too?
<mdke> not much, no
<mdke> actually, we are shipping it, but only the xml is registered in scrollkeeper
<mdke> does docbase do xml too?
<mdke> enrico, ^
<LaserJock> mdke: I'm not sure, it does info, ps and html for sure. The man page says that all non-man docs should be registered with it
<LaserJock> mdke: hmm, the manual says 'Only "HTML", "DebianDoc-SGML", and "Text" is recognized.'
<mdke> interesting
<mdke> i'm not going to get that excited about this tho
<mdke> lots of writing to be done
<LaserJock> mdke: anyway, I don't know if we should bother but if we do want to register the docs in docbase I can write the file for debian/
<enrico> mdke: hi
<enrico> yumm docbase
<mdke> enrico, ciao. ^^
<enrico> :)
<enrico> Have you installed the package doc-base?
<LaserJock> I have
<enrico> had a look at /usr/share/doc/doc-base/doc-base.html ?
<enrico> (or /usr/share/doc/doc-base/doc-base.txt.gz)
<LaserJock> yep
<enrico> LaserJock: oh, you quoted it above, sorry
<enrico> So, you use doc-base to register the documentation with a system documentation database
<enrico> if you have xml that is not debiandoc-sgml, then don't register it
<LaserJock> right, but it would only do the HTML I think
<enrico> same for info and ps
<enrico> right, only do the html
<enrico> for info there's a dh_registerinfo or something similar
<enrico> lemme see
<LaserJock> how many people use dwww or dhelp?
<enrico> dh_installinfo
<enrico> LaserJock: AFAIK very few, but a tool that accesses that database could come out at any time
<enrico> LaserJock: so the small effort of writing the docbase file can pay off somewhere in the future
<enrico> let's say it's one of those things that "bring you good luck" :)
<enrico> It's really a matter of putting it down following the example in the file
<LaserJock> makes sense. it isn't hard to do. I've already done one for one of the packages I maintain in Debian
<enrico> Document: quickguide
<enrico> Title: The Ubuntu Quick Guide
<enrico> Author: LaserJock
<mdke> so we'll need to decide whether to ship HTML or not
<enrico> Abstract: ...
<enrico> and so on
<LaserJock> mdke: yeah
<mdke> enrico, do you need to register each translation with doc-base?
<enrico> .oO([HTML or not]   oh no, not again!) :)
<mdke> enrico, we'll definitely be shipping xml. It's just a question of whether to ship the html too. For the Server Guide, it makes sense to ship it
<enrico> mdke: [translation]  now, that's a good question.  The doc-base manual doesn't mention it
<enrico> I'm asking around about translations
<LaserJock> I just took a look with dhelp and it seems pretty cool.
<enrico> mdke: don't worry.  I just remember some loooong discussions about it in the past
<mdke> yeah, i remember
<mdke> thanks for asking around
<enrico> I don't seem to be getting answers yet, though :(
<mdke> np
<enrico> well, if I get answers I'll let you know.  If I don't get answers, then you just register the untranslated documents and wait for a bug report :)
<enrico> (and then you can ask the bug reporter how to do it)
<mdke> lol
<mdke> ok, thanks
* mdke passes the buck to LaserJock 
<LaserJock> mdke: if decision is made to do register the docs just assign the bug to me and I'll take care of it
<mdke> consider the decision made :)
<LaserJock> as a yes?
<mdke> it can't do any harm to register them, right?
<LaserJock> I don't think so
<mdke> ok
<mdke> --> home
<johndarkhorse> bah, wrong room.
<johndarkhorse> who is in charge of the server?
<johndarkhorse> folks are getting 403s
<johndarkhorse> at the wiki
<LaserJock> hmmm
<LaserJock> there was some downtime last night 03:00-06:00 UTC 
<LaserJock> it's working fine now
<LaserJock> Canonical was moving some stuff around
<LaserJock> johndarkhorse: need anything else?
<johndarkhorse> nah, i'll inform all concerned.
<johndarkhorse> thanks
<johndarkhorse> duh, i'm using the wrong nick
<johndarkhorse> y'all be good
<enrico> mdke: my trusted localization top-expert told me that he has no idea :-/
<LaserJock> lol
<robotgeek> jjesse: question. The system menu entries like "K-Menu -> Multimedia -> Media Player (Kaffeine)"
<robotgeek> should be exactly the same, right. as in Media Player (Kaffeine) and not Kaffine (Media Player)
<jjesse> should match what is in the K-Menu is my view
<jjesse> in my dapper build it is Kaffine (Media Player)
<robotgeek> damn, it says otherwise in mine
* robotgeek cries *why*
<jjesse> hmmm
<jjesse> all of mine are like that AmaroK (Audio Player) etc
<robotgeek> jjesse: damn, that will take a lot of changing, i think i need to write a vim macro now. *sigh*
<jjesse> whouldn't it make sense to have it look exactly like the kmenu is setup?
<jjesse> btw it should be an emacs macro :)
<robotgeek> jjesse: yes it would, except that that was the way it shows up in mine. 
<LaserJock> I suppose it would depend on how fresh your install is, that is usually one of the first things I change
<robotgeek> you can change that?
<jjesse> i didn't know you could change it, mine is dapper4 with latest updates
<robotgeek> i think mine was the same, flight 4 with updates
<robotgeek> wow, there are many spelling mistakes in the docs
<robotgeek> aspell --mode=sgml -c foo.xml
<jjesse> fx them!!!!
<robotgeek> yeah, fixing them
<LaserJock> it is a configuration you can change, so if you have an old ~/ then you might have them different
<jjesse> i'm a fresh install
<LaserJock> hmm, I thought it was the other way around by default, maybe they changed that
<robotgeek> oh yes, i moved my .kde from older machine
<robotgeek> <sigh>
<jjesse> d'oh!!!
<LaserJock> glad I could help ;-)
<robotgeek> oh well, i'll finish spell checking and then fix the menu entries
<LaserJock> although that is terrible since I haven't run KDE for months
<LaserJock> you guys are supposed to be the KDE experts :)
* robotgeek goes to look up apostrophe' abuse
<LaserJock> oh yeah, how about commas, I'm terrible about them
<robotgeek> commited
<robotgeek> mdke: would you know if "/usr/share/doc/kde/HTML/en/common" is present on doc.ubuntu.com
#ubuntu-doc 2006-03-12
<Burgwork> who is this trappist?
<LaserJock> not sure
<LaserJock> oh that's the "polish" guy from -devel
<robotgeek> Burgwork: ping
<robotgeek> zenrox: ping
<zenrox> what robotgeek 
<robotgeek> zenrox: you are a moderator on the forums, right?
<zenrox> nope
<robotgeek> zenrox: hmm, okay. i tht you were. sorry
<zenrox> nope you ment zenwhen
<robotgeek> zenrox: ah okay, sorry about the confusion
<zenrox> its ok
<onkarshinde> This page has a good howto to set rfcomm. I guess we can integrate that into BluetoothSetup on wiki for auto detection of devices. 
<onkarshinde> http://www.geocities.com/saravkrish/progs/bluemote/bluetooth.html
<robotgeek> onkarshinde: under what license is it?
<onkarshinde> I am not sure about license. He has just put how he did the things. For now I will paste the link in wiki page
<Madpilot> Hi all
<robotgeek> hey Madpilot 
<Madpilot> hi robotgeek 
<robotgeek> Madpilot: i put up the Kubuntu Desktop Guide for review on the forums
<Madpilot> good - mdke did the same for the UDG a while ago
<robotgeek> yeah, i retained the text :)
<Madpilot> which forum is it in?
<robotgeek> Dapper - http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=140795
<Madpilot> put something in the Kubuntu Desktop forum too, maybe
<Madpilot> you can also pm one of the forum admins and ask them to sticky your post
<robotgeek> i did, i pmed KB
<LaserJock> I wonder where I'll get to post ;-)
<onkarshinde> robotgeek: I have just modified BluetoothSetup page to include link to rfcomm setup. I also created BluetoothRemote page yesterday for Sony Ericsson phones that can be used as remote control over bluetooth. Any comments welcomed.
<robotgeek> onkarshinde: link?
<onkarshinde> robotgeek: on ubuntu wiki. wiki.ubuntu.com/BluetoothSetup and wiki.ubuntu.com/BluetoothRemote
<onkarshinde> robotgeek: any comments?
<robotgeek> onkarshinde: hmm, i am on the phone right now, will take a look as soon as i finish
<onkarshinde> Ok. I will sign off. I will sign in afterwards.
<Madpilot> hi dsas 
<dsas> hi Madpilot
<dsas> hows things going?
<Madpilot> busy here
<dsas> ah, that could be good or bad.  I've just had a week off so now it's getting back into the swing of things.
<mdke_> robotgeek, re /usr/share/doc/kde/HTML/en/common, what is it? I don't think it's on doc.u.c
<robotgeek> mdke_: basically the images for kde docs
<Madpilot> robotgeek, your version of the KDG looks very KDE-ish - all bloooo and shiny :P
<robotgeek> mdke_: http://www.robotgeek.org/kubuntu/desktopguide/index.html 
<mdke_> robotgeek, oh i see your mail now. but your website doesn't render the top bar properly...
<mdke_> something I've been killing myself over is how the hell the kde docs in khelpcenter manage that top bar and bottom bar
<robotgeek> mdke_: i just used the kde-web.xsl
<robotgeek> yeah, i'm trying to figure out how the hell kde does it apps
<robotgeek> help, err
<mdke_> if we could do the same for our web docs we could then switch to xsltproc for everything
<mdke_> i think it might be something to do with the <filename> tag it puts in the html
<mdke_> tr
<mdke_> oops
<robotgeek> mdke_: do you know a nice way of viewing the docs in khelpcenter, i tried opening the index.docbook, but they refuse to open in there
<mdke_> just type khelpcenter
<mdke_> then browse to the relevant one
<robotgeek> mdke_: i mean the ones i have written
<mdke_> the web ones don't have an index.docbook, they just have an index.html
<mdke_> you can open that easily enough in khelpcenter
* mdke_ wanders off
<mdke_> robotgeek, i'll take another look at this stuff today and reply on the thread. it's a tricky issue :/
<robotgeek> mdke_: i know, we don't want to break kde's documentation procedure for mere eye candy
<mdke_> well, their docs are pretty candy filled, it's our that suck
<robotgeek> i'll try to look and dig deeper too. 
<robotgeek> later then, night
<onkarshinde> can anybody take a look at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/BluetoothRemote and suggest any improvements. It is my first wiki page that is why I am asking this.
<onkarshinde> anybody talks here?
<onkarshinde> hello
<bhuvan> onkarshinde, in general the presentation is good. but, i couldnot locate the conf file to edit or steps to get it done in ubuntu, etc.
<onkarshinde> bhuvan: The .hid file mentioned in table is a tar archive. You can extract it somewhere. And I have mentioned two links (Sony Developer website) where you can get format of the xml.
<onkarshinde> Also BluetoothSetup page has everything else related to bluetooth in Ubuntu.
<bhuvan> onkarshinde, BluetoothSetup is ok.
<bhuvan> onkarshinde, i'm unable to relate your wiki with BluetoothSetup except a link to the former
<bhuvan> onkarshinde, or i dont know or you have not specified where we should use your conf file
<onkarshinde> bhuvan: BluetoothSetup specifies how to setup HID which is actually used by this 'Remote Control' functionality.
<bhuvan> ok
<onkarshinde> Your last point is right. I will have to mention that users will need to send this .hid file to their handset someway.
<bhuvan> ok
<bhuvan> next, you might also specify the parameters specific to sony .. thus other mobile users may look for their counterpart
<bhuvan> imo, once you prepare the document just follow the steps you mentioned and ensure you setup your bluetooth successfully. if yes, sure it will be very useful for others
<onkarshinde> I have checked setup. I did exactly as was mentioned on wiki (BluetoothSetup). The last section for autoconnecting devices when in range since is added by me.
<onkarshinde> Regarding other phones, I have no idea if any of them provide this functionality. And my file is only for SE phones.
<onkarshinde> jsgotangco: Hi
<onkarshinde> jsgotangco: I managed to auto connect bluetooth phone when in range (i.e. initiate connection form device).
<jsgotangco> ahhh
<jsgotangco> i haven't tested mine yet (will try later)
<onkarshinde> jsgotangco: No problem. Just FYI..
<jsgotangco> how did it auto connect?
<onkarshinde> jsgotangco: I had to setup rfcomm and then add 'rfcomm bind all' and 'rfcomm release all' in start and stop section of bluez-script
<onkarshinde> jsgotangco: Please see last section of BluetoothSetup page on wiki. 
<mkde> jsgotangco, yo
<jsgotangco> mdke, hi!
<mkde> jsgotangco, i was wondering what to do about all the people who apply to join the docs group, but who haven't yet contributed so as to get svn access. Shall we clean up the list a bit by rejecting a few people with kind messages encouraging them to join the mailing list and contribute first, or shall we just leave them on the "to be approved" list?
<mkde> I prefer the former solution, I think
<onkarshinde> jsgotangco: I am just hoping that the file I made is useful to Linux and SE users.
<jsgotangco> mdke, i prefer the former too at least they don't get ignored
<mkde> ok, i'll do some of that
<mkde> I'm going to leave the people who have started contributing already, like jpatrick
<mkde> and manicka
<jsgotangco> thanks, i've been a busy at work lately and currently have pretty bad net access
<jsgotangco> but it'll normalise in a week
<rob> did my email make it to -devel? 
<mkde> rob, yes
<rob> I hate how it doesn't send it back
<mkde> it doesn't?
<mkde> it does to me
<jsgotangco> gmail doesnt send you back what you sent already
<rob> ah, thats it
<jsgotangco> it makes it part of the thread
<rob> that sucks if using pop though
<jsgotangco> i think it downloads as pop
* jsgotangco havent been using the gmail pop service for a while
<mkde> robotgeek is deactivated in the group. /me activates him
<rob> ?
* ompaul wonders what karma is on launchpad
<jsgotangco> its your lp activity
<mdke> ompaul, when you report/comment on/close bugs or do translations, you get karma
<ompaul> ahh
<mdke> or upload stuff, etc etc
<ompaul> cos I could not figure how I got any
<ompaul> thanks
<mdke> also, if you're just a good person, you get some
<rob> oh, kinky
<ompaul> okay
<jsgotangco> lol how come i dont get any karma for being good
<jsgotangco> ompaul, file bugs, you get karma points
<jsgotangco> do translations, karam
<jsgotangco> answer a support question, karma
<ompaul> jsgotangco, well bugs I do and support I do a bit but is it in a *karma* location - irc :) or sounder - I tend to avoid the malone and friends, I am not expert enough to say issues exist in most cases
<ompaul> few wiki pages that might be useful
* ompaul was considering putting myself up for membership but I am finding the process with launchpad a tad circular 
<rob> I wouldn't get to worked up in the lp karma thing, at least I'm not :)
<ompaul> rob, I'm not, I was curious
<rob> make yourself a "home" wiki page and link all of your contributions on it
<rob> wiki and otherwise
<ompaul> lots of that is done
<rob> thats the best thing to have I think, you can showcase everything you do on it
<rob> lp karma is limited somewhat to bugs, translations etc
<ompaul> well if I was to put everything on it I would have to mirror the irc logs for #ubuntu
<ompaul> and get a few lines from there
<rob> put a couple of tricky examples where you went out of your way to help out
<ompaul> thats not a bad idea
<ompaul> thanks
<rob> a couple of references from other members who use the channel will also help
<ompaul> well if any of them that I know were in #ubuntu now I would talking to them, today came up far too quickly
<rob> are you up for membership tonight?
<ompaul> well I was going to subscribe for 12 is it tonight or in 1.5 hours?
<rob> in about an hour and a half yes
<highvoltage> rob: good luck
<ompaul> well I might as well link in - the worst case is they say do more
<rob> highvoltage, thanks, I think?
<highvoltage> rob: yes, sorry, didn't mean it in a bad way :
<highvoltage> :)
<rob> nah I realise that, just wondering what for
<highvoltage> ubuntu membership.
<ompaul> ehh he has it 
<rob> heh
<ompaul> s/ehh/heh/ehh?
<highvoltage> heh. sorry, been a long day (again!) :)
<rob> I know how that feels :)
<mdke> damn, where is robotgeek when you need him
* mdke is getting close to producing nice kde docs with xsltproc
<rob> heh
<mdke> argh
<mdke> ahhhh
* mdke gets there
<mdke> ok, i rock
<rob> oh?
<rob> hey mdke, can I get my password reset for the svn repo?
<rob> mumble.. I'm gonna have to generate a new key too..
<mdke> here's the proof: http://doc.ubuntu.com/test/mdke_rocks.png 
<mdke> rob, i can't do that. Send patches for the moment, and we'll ask elmo to send you your password
<rob> mdke, that is pretty nice, good stuff
<rob> mdke, yeah I forgot
<jsgotangco> mdke_, that's pretty
<mdke> mpt, i changed the team description, feel free to eyeball it and give feedback
<mdke> trappist, welcome
<mdke> jjesse, did you see my kde bling banner?
* mdke is well excited about that
<jjesse> mdke: yes i did, how does it differ from the stylesheet that is shipped in kubuntu?
<mdke> jjesse, not much, that's the point
<mdke> the only difference is that it is made with xsltproc, not meinproc
<trappist> mdke: thanks
<mdke> jsgotangco: check this out. http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/serverguide/C/index.html
<mdke> sexy huh
<mdke> taking a closer look at the kde stylesheets showed me how to add banners to pages
<jsgotangco> oh wow
<jsgotangco> what did you use?
<mdke> i've uploaded it
<mdke> have a look at trunk/ubuntu/libs/ubuntu-banner.xsl
<jsgotangco> oh boy dapper documentation just went the next level
<jsgotangco> those guys are writing freaks
<mdke> which guys?
<jsgotangco> bhuvan and robotgeek
* mdke coughs
<jsgotangco> and the best barrister that i know
<mdke> that's more like it :)
<jsgotangco> seriously, you're more of a technical writer now than a lawyer from what i see
<jsgotangco> or hear
<mdke> hardly
<jsgotangco> i guess its just time management
<jsgotangco> all of us have 24 hours anyway
<mdke> yep
<jsgotangco> gotta sleep
<jsgotangco> good night
<robotgeek> mdke_: great job the kde web thing, bling cha ching!
<mdke> robotgeek: ping?
<robotgeek> mdke: pong
<mdke> robotgeek: great. what do you use to build the kubuntu desktop guide? the Makefile or the mk script?
<robotgeek> mdke: i used the makefile
<mdke> robotgeek: thanks
<robotgeek> mdke: for what :)
<mdke> for telling me
<mdke> robotgeek: can we eliminate the mk script for now?
<robotgeek> mdke: sure, i don't use it at all. i started using the Makefile quite a while back
<mdke> robotgeek: great again
<robotgeek> mdke: thanks for dealing with stuffi don't understand :)
<mdke> you started it :)
<mdke> jjesse: robotgeek: can we get rid of the entries in the Makefile for the userguide and adminguide (defunct docs, iirc?)
<jjesse> yes
<jjesse> defaunt docs, the userguide has been replaced by the desktop guide and the admin guide was never maintained as far as i know
<mdke> cool
<mdke> jjesse: and the install guide too?
<mdke> what about "kynaptic user manual"? did that move upstream?
<jjesse> install guide should be and i don't know what happened with the kynaptic user manual
<mdke> ok, nuking from the Makefile for now then. Thanks
<jjesse> i do have a question on the install docs that are included on the cd, are they maintained  by us?  cause I think there should be some differences for kubuntu
<mdke> jjesse: Colin Watson maintains them, I don't know if he does kubuntu things too. nick is "Kamion" on irc
<jjesse> he on #ubuntu usually?
<mdke> -devel
<mdke> ok, I've just done some fairly heavy changes to the kubuntu build stuff for the website. Please tell me if I've broken anything
<jjesse> ok i'll track him down
<mdke> I'm going to test now
<jjesse> good luck
<mdke> we should have some nice blingy kubuntu docs on the site in a moment
<jjesse> i love it when someone hits a power pole nearby :)  1400 people are out of power including my office
<mdke> argh
<jjesse> thank goodness for a good full generator 
<mdke> rock
<mdke> http://doc.ubuntu.com/kubuntu/about-kubuntu-web/C/index.html
<mdke> http://doc.ubuntu.com/kubuntu/desktopguide-web/C/index.html
<mdke> etc 
<robotgeek> mdke: awesome
<mdke> robotgeek: thanks for showing me how :D
<robotgeek> mdke: heh, i got that from doc.kde.org
<mdke> yeah
<mdke> now, all that remains is to convince riddell to let us ship the html like that in the distribution
<mdke> then we can use xincludes again
<robotgeek> hmm, let me see if i can find him
<mdke> I've pinged him
<robotgeek> hmm, okay then
<mdke> hmm
<mdke> robotgeek: you got a kubuntu dapper handy?
<robotgeek> mdke: yup
<mdke> can you open khelpcenter, and then the desktopguide and then see if the title in the blue banner changes on every page of the guide you visit
<mdke> or does it stay "Kubuntu Desktop Guide"
<robotgeek> it changes, i guess title
<mdke> so it has the title of each subsection in it?
<robotgeek> it has the chapter heading
<mdke> good news
<mdke> thanks
<jjesse> i forwarded your email riddell as well
<jjesse> mdke: 
<mdke> jjesse: thanks, although i cc:ed him :)
<mdke> or maybe I forgot to
<jjesse> grin i didn't see that or which jonathan you were talking to
<mdke> oh good point
<robotgeek> heh 
<robotgeek> mdke: can you browse over to http://doc.ubuntu.com/kubuntu/desktopguide-web/C/index.html and try clicking on say the APT section?
<mdke> yes
<robotgeek> it's incredibly difficult, and i don't know who is at fault here :)
<mdke> the link is very small
<robotgeek> no, what i meant was that the subsections in a chapter are incredibly difficult to click, not only the apt link
<mdke> i noticed that on the kde online documents too
<mdke> yes
<robotgeek> i don't know what that happens. we should file a bug somewhere, and not to the -doc team :)
<mdke> it's a bug in the stylesheets, I have no idea how to find it though
<robotgeek> hmm, lemme grok too
<robotgeek> even the docs.kde.org things have that problem
<mdke> http://docs.kde.org/stable/en/kdebase/kate/index.html
<mdke> see under 3: The Document List
<robotgeek> yeah, totally not clickable
<mdke> i'll bbl
<robotgeek> hey apokryphos 
<apokryphos> aloha
<robotgeek> apokryphos: you use kubuntu, right?
<apokryphos> robotgeek: sometimes, yeah; SuSE lately though.
<Burgwork> somebody pinged me?
<robotgeek> apokryphos: hmm, okay
<apokryphos> robotgeek: why?
<robotgeek> apokryphos: http://doc.ubuntu.com/kubuntu/desktopguide-web/C/index.html review this?
<apokryphos> robotgeek: sure. I'll try to look through all by today. What's the svn info so I could create a patch if need be?
<apokryphos> the different docbook rules for kubu takes a little getting used to ;-)
<robotgeek> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/Contribute https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/GettingStarted
<apokryphos> thanks
<trappist> in the kde docs if you change the .sect1, .chapter, .synopsis, .appendix, .preface, .article, .refsect1, .index, .glossary, .section in css to padding: 0em; it's all clickable
<robotgeek> trappist: would it be too much to ask for a patch :)
<robotgeek> that's a very annoying bug, we may also need to put it in main. 
<trappist> can do
<robotgeek> thanks
<trappist> sent to the list
<trappist> should have asked first, but should patches like that be inline or attachments?
<LaserJock> trappist: attachments are nice
<trappist> gotcha.
<LaserJock> I usually download the diff and look at it and then apply it with patch so attachments are much better
<trappist> it's a one-line change so my kneejerk reaction was to paste the diff into the email, but I'll resist the urge in the future.
<robotgeek> trappist: it does work on my test page, thanks
<trappist> my pleasure
<robotgeek> trappist: take a look at the list again, mdke said something about the css :)
<trappist> replied
<robotgeek> cool. i'll leave it to mdke to commit it, i am not very handy with css
<onkarshinde> just FYI ... https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BluetoothRemote is now mentioned in Sony Ericsson developer forums http://developer.sonyericsson.com/ann.jspa?annID=5
<robotgeek> onkarshinde: good job :)
<mdke> trappist: thanks for that latest patch, it works nicely :)
<trappist> cool
<robotgeek> mdke: we should send it to upstream kde also :)
<mdke> robotgeek: sure, I think it should work there too
<robotgeek> mdke: we need to patch kdelibs-data also. 
<mdke> do we?
<mdke> not in Ubuntu, i don't think
<robotgeek> let me look at khelpcenter
<robotgeek> well, maybe not
<mdke> well if I convince Riddell, we'll use the same css file for khelpcenter as for the website anyhow
<robotgeek> he's awake right now, maybe we should bother him right away
<mdke> not for me, I'm off home
<mdke> he has the email anyway, I don't want to stress him
<robotgeek> mdke: he was wondering why you want to use xsltproc
<robotgeek> anyways, he will get to the email soon i guess
<mdke> the answer is because it supports xincludes, and the ubuntu docs, server guide and packaging guide all use those
<mdke> xincludes make it easier to arrange translation of the files
<robotgeek> cool, i'll keep that in mind
<jjesse> but i thought the goal was to keep kubuntu docs inline with kde docs style and tool wise?
<jjesse> i thought that was what we agreeded upon the last time we talked abou this?
<mdke> yes, because the kde tools were easier to achieve the style with
<mdke> however now that we can achieve the style with the standard tool, I don't see why we should use 2 toolchains
<Burgwork> robotgeek, pong
<robotgeek> ping Burgwork 
<Burgwork> what did you need?
<robotgeek> Burgwork: when, what?
<robotgeek> did i ping you sometime? 
<Burgwork> the log says you pinged me
<robotgeek> Burgwork: hmm, i was about to ping you yesterday, but i think i went offline. i don't quite remember for what now  
<robotgeek> i thought i did not ping you
<LaserJock> ghost ping, eh?
<robotgeek> hey LaserJock 
<LaserJock> how's it going robotgeek? Seems like your pretty busy with the Kubuntu docs
<robotgeek> LaserJock: yeah, just want to finish it off soon so that i can do other stuff.
<LaserJock> I need to get the Packaging Guide finished :(
<robotgeek> yup..23'rd is 2 weeks away
<LaserJock> yikes
<robotgeek> yeah, hence the frenetic activity.
<trappist> ubuntu/quicktour/quicktour.html is full of funky unicode representations of apostrophes.  should these be replaced with &apos; ?
<trappist> if I look at it in a browser and copy and paste "you'll" I get "you\u2019ll"
<trappist> which always drives me nuts, especially on irc
<Burgwork> http://www.usa4id.com/ciwc/SawedOff.htm <-- mark firing a gun
<trappist> or even better, &rsquo;
<LaserJock> Burgwork: sweet
<trappist> hrm.  looks like I accidentally double-posted to the list.
<Burgwork> trappist, good to have your aboard
<trappist> thanks
<trappist> good to have something to do :)
<Burgwork> you can have some of things I have to do ;)
<trappist> whatcha got?
<Burgwork> trappist, my room is a mess. Kitchen floor needs to be cleaned
<trappist> oh that.  I have enough of that at the house, but thanks anyway.
<Burgwork> ok. lol
<trappist> my dog apparently can't stand a clean house and corrects the problem at his earliest convenience
<Burgwork> ah, I see
<mdke_> trappist, I've committed both of your other patches, thanks for those. I haven't emailed the list yet because my email isn't working right now :/
<trappist> ossum
<trappist> hate it when email breaks
<mdke_> my dynamic ip hasn't updated yet
<trappist> hate it when my ip is dynamic :)
<trappist> <3 speakeasy
<mdke_> i need better email
<trappist> you run a mail server on a dynamic ip?
<mdke_> smtp only
<mdke_> mainly because I wanted to know how to do it
<mdke_> but it's convenient to avoid changing smtp in my mail client all the time
<trappist> a lot of ISPs will block your mail if it's from a dynamic ip.  I had that problem for a while.
<mdke_> yeah, i just reroute it through my isp's smtp server.
<trappist> that's a solution
<mdke_> gah
<mdke_> my dns services are up to date with the right ip. but the internet doesn't know about it /me kicks internet
<trappist> takes a while to propagate
<trappist> back in my dynamic ip days I had verizon and luckily they let me keep the same IP for years at a time
<trappist> but they suck and I fired them and like I said, <3 speakeasy
<mdke_> mmm
<LaserJock> argghh, trappist you found an it's in the Packaging Guide :(
<trappist> oh, is that yours? ;)
<LaserJock> trappist: yeah, and I'm terrible with spelling and grammar at times :-)
<trappist> I got yer back :)
<mdke> only one, in the whole guide *pats LaserJock*
<LaserJock> I try, but I'm not much of a writer
<LaserJock> I just got a departmental presentation out of the way today and I made MOTU so hopefully I can get the Packaging Guide finished ASAP
<mdke> cool
<LaserJock> I've also got a couple of MOTUs that are hopefully going to send some patches
<LaserJock> mdke: oh, and the original author of that IntroDeveloperDoc (the first packaging guide I sendt you) pdf contacted me
<mdke> cool
<LaserJock> mdke: and he said he is eager to help with the Packaging Guide
<mdke> do you guys know what is meant by "gatekeeper"?
<jjesse> root acccount
<mdke> not you jjesse 
<jjesse> grin :)
<mdke> anyone except jjesse 
<LaserJock> somebody who keeps the gate ;-)
<jjesse> are you reading my section of the book?  i think i use it a lot in there, don't remember where i picked it up
<mdke> yeah
<mdke> i saw it in chapter 3 too
<jjesse> i think it was in another section of the book that i read
<jjesse> yeah that's right
<mdke> i recommend you take it out :) I think it is a reference to the Ghostbusters film
<trappist> about the style guide.  why do we say yes, use the series comma?
<jjesse> mdke: what would you use instead to refere to that password?  the root password?
<jjesse> looking forward to your suggestions :)
<LaserJock> mdke well, I probably wouldn't have a problem with it in context but it isn't necessarily intuitive
<trappist> ghostbusters is the first thing that comes to mind when I hear gatekeeper.  the 2nd is princess bride.
<mdke> jjesse, administrator account. the password is the user's password.
<LaserJock> jjesse: what about "superuser password"
<mdke> but not everyone has seen ghostbusters
<mdke> by the way jjesse, your chapter is awesom
<jjesse> mdke: i'm glad you like it i still have some tweaking
<jjesse> mdke: do you think more inforamtion is needed?
<LaserJock> jeeze, I saw ghostbusters long ago, I didn't even remember that word from it
<mdke> i haven't finished it yet
<mdke> but i can already tell that it rocks
<jjesse> thanks
<LaserJock> jjesse: what chapter(s) are you writing?
<jjesse> LaserJock: kubuntu chapter
<jjesse> its chapter 9 in the book
<LaserJock> jjesse: that is what I thought, is it available yet? or do only the privileged few (mdke) get to check it out ;-)
<jjesse> its in the technical review stage
<LaserJock> cool, I look forward to it
<LaserJock> It seems like we are building some really good documentation infrastructure
<mdke> I'm totally pleased with docs right now. lots of contributors \o/
<jjesse> its really nice to see more people working on kubuntu, no longer the lone wolf
<mdke> :)
<LaserJock> I'm still wonder how many people actually read the docs, but I think more and more will if the docs are good quality
<mdke> yep
<LaserJock> I'm particularly interested, from my own experiences, in advanced users and devs
<LaserJock> I think most of them don't realize the wealth of documentation that is on their computer
<mdke> true
<mdke> that's not their fault, but ours
<trappist> ok more general question about the styleguide.  are we looking for proofreading work or contributions to the guidelines themselves?  because I have some questions about some of the guidelines.
<trappist> for example, "Avoid using the apostrophe to indicate possession" <-- why?
<mdke> trappist, the guidelines themselves. Feel free to discuss on the mailing list. jeff replied about the series comma thing
<trappist> cool.
<LaserJock> hmm, what the heck is a series comma?
<mdke> it's a common which comes before the "and" in a list of stuff
<mdke> like: I have an apple, a banana, and a pear
<mdke> common/comma
<trappist> aka the oxford comma
<mdke> although, tbh, I only learnt what it was today, from trappist 
<LaserJock> oh, so you don't necessarily have to have the last comma, right? I think I read that somewhere
<trappist> right.  the style guide says use it.  I hate it.
<mdke> yes that's right. our styleguide recommends the comma
<trappist> I hate it because it's not necessary, and only the morally weak use unnecessary commas.  but the styleguide hath spoken.
<LaserJock> trappist: well, I was always taught that you had to have that comma. It seems like a minor issue to me but it is interesting
<LaserJock> is it a geographical thing?
<LaserJock> like some countries do but others don't
<mdke> we tend not to use it here in the UK, I think. Not sure
<trappist> LaserJock: the brits tend not to use it.  americans mostly do.  as an american anglophile I'm a little torn on some of these issues, but I side with the british on this one.
<LaserJock> interesting, I just think it is odd how small things like a comma can be a big deal
<mdke> good question about the parenthesis
<mdke> es*
#ubuntu-doc 2007-03-05
<nixternal> quiet in here
<nixternal> HEY WAKE UP!!!!
<screaming_flower> good morning
<nixternal> whoa, and the nick goes right along with my screaming :)
<LaserJock> hi nixternal
<nixternal> hiya LaserJock
<screaming_flower> i stole it out of a U2 song.  and i'm a audiofreak
<crimsun> shh, I'm trying to stealthily install vista on nixternal's PC.
<Admiral_Chicago> he was talking earlier that he wanted it
<crimsun> yeah. I just couldn't bear to see him suffer.
<nixternal> whoa whoa whoa
<nixternal> netstat -a
<nixternal> killall -q $$win*
<Admiral_Chicago> you don't have to be humble around us
<nixternal> I have Windows XP in VMware
<nixternal> that is it
<nixternal> and the only reason for that is because at school we have to use this app for Windows only
<crimsun> it's all right; you can admit to running WinXP as your host OS and KDE as your guest. Admission is the first step on the road to recovery.
<nixternal> hahaha, never
<nixternal> hey, how come we cannot delete images from h.u.c/community?
<LaserJock> nixternal: I've run KDE on OS X but I've never stooped *that* low ;-)
<nixternal> hah
<nixternal> I put Ubuntu back on my one test box and have been playing with it
<nixternal> but the tweakability to make it look the way I want really stinks
<nixternal> but the overall GUI I find a tad bit cleaner *looking* than KDE
<mdke> morning
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-doc.log
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-doc.log
<kdefreak> When does translation of kubuntu docs start?
<somerville32> Oh... haha
<dsa> hi !
<dsa> im searching sivan green (sivang) do anyone know his email or something ?
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-doc.log
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-doc.log
<nixternal> 3 more days!!!
<tonyyarusso> nixternal: String freeze, right?
<nixternal> then it is xml2po >> rosetta a few weeks later << repos >> package >> death
<nixternal> yes
<nixternal> I hate string freezes
<tonyyarusso> How does one go about making and submitting changes for simple typos on an existing page?
<LaserJock> tonyyarusso: what kind of page?
<tonyyarusso> LaserJock: packaging/desktop/server guide ones
<nixternal> do the typos on doc.ubuntu.com/kubuntu :)
<nixternal> I need to put a callout for proofers tonight
<tonyyarusso> How do you submit the fixes though?
<LaserJock> tonyyarusso: get svn, make changes, svn diff, send diff to mailing list
<tonyyarusso> got it
<Ubugtu> New bug: #89935 in ubuntu-doc "Typos in italian "ubuntu desktop guide" 6.06" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/89935
<CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: lucius * r3908 xubuntu/libs/images/ (XubuntuLogo.png headerlogo.png): update to new xubuntu logo
<CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: lucius * r3909 xubuntu/ (3 files in 2 dirs): fix #81788
<CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: lucius * r3910 xubuntu/desktopguide/C/common-tasks.xml: fix #85008
<CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: lucius * r3911 xubuntu/desktopguide/C/guided-tour.xml: fix #86058
<CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: lucius * r3912 xubuntu/desktopguide/C/guided-tour.xml: fix #86124
<CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: lucius * r3913 xubuntu/libs/xubuntu.ent: fix #86127
<CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: philbull * r3914 ubuntu/desktop-effects/C/desktop-effects.xml: Write material for desktop-effects
<theCore> String Freeze this week, right?
<Admiral_Chicago> theCore: the 8th
<LaserJock> 8th
<theCore> do you need help on the docs?
<theCore> well, I will take that as a no ....
<LaserJock> theCore: heh, I'm not sure if I have time for much
<LaserJock> theCore: I'll probably just try to clean up bugs
<LaserJock> if you want to help that's fine
<theCore> well, I am in Spring Break, so I haven't really anything else to do than trying stuff, chatting, fixing bugs
<theCore> I going to start to do some Python Core development, later this week, though
<theCore> that will be fun, but hard
<gabe_> hi
<gabe_> hi, again, LaserJock
<LaserJock> hi gabe_
<gabe_> LaserJock: the doc team mailing list is awfully quiet, don't you think?
<LaserJock> it is?
<gabe_> i think so
<gabe_> are you subscribed to it?
<LaserJock> sure
<gabe_> ah
<LaserJock> we're just all working
<gabe_> would you be able to tell me if my email was received OK, please?
<LaserJock> gabe_: Gabriel Dragffy?
<gabe_> yes :)
<LaserJock> I got it
<gabe_> do you know if I did the right thing - I mean is it useful and should I carry on, or is it not helpful
#ubuntu-doc 2007-03-06
<LaserJock> looks pretty good to me
<LaserJock> but I'm not sure if that doc is really being worked on much anymore
<gabe_> ah
<gabe_> could you suggest where my time might be better spent?
<LaserJock> gabe_: the stuff in the ubuntu/ and kubuntu/ directories
<gabe_> ah ok
<CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: nixternal * r3915 kubuntu/system-settings/C/system-settings.xml: system-settings complete - ready for review
<nixternal> woohoo
<nixternal> config-desktop is it, and create a single point of access to kubuntu system docs for KHelpCenter and I am done!
<Admiral_Chicago> nice, those the ones i helped on?
<nixternal> jes
<Admiral_Chicago> rocking
<nixternal> Admiral_Chicago: look
<CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: nixternal * r3916 common/C/contributors.xml: adding Freddy Martinez to the list of contributors for helping me with Kubuntu docs
<nixternal> :)
<Admiral_Chicago> haha, thanks
<nixternal> OK, one more section to complete and then some KHelpCenter trickery and Kubuntu docs for Feisty will be ready for review and in 3 days xml2po translation love!!!!!
<jjesse> yeah for nixternal
<jjesse> cheer
<nixternal> where is my check?
<nixternal> :)
<jjesse> comming soon :0
<nixternal> woohoo
<nixternal> maybe I can buy a soda with it
<nixternal> I just want an Ubuntu or Kubuntu shirt that fits
<jjesse> you should
<jjesse> get one for free
<jjesse> i wish this book didn't take so much friggen work
<nixternal> I just paid $50 for a t-shirt and polo that are embroidered, beautiful, but they don't fit
<jjesse> d'oh you should get your money back
<nixternal> so I will give them away to the guys in the LoCo
<jjesse> man the internet is so slow here :(
* Admiral_Chicago waves
<nixternal> I got them from Juliux (Germany)
<Admiral_Chicago> which reminds me, i still don't know what we are doing about UWN
<tonyyarusso> nixternal: what size?
<nixternal> they are supposed to be XXL, but umm, they are closer to L
<tonyyarusso> heh, WAY out of my range
<nixternal> Germans don't know size I guess :)
<nixternal> I am 6'3" 230+, so XXL is a tough one due to my height
<Admiral_Chicago> nixternal: you're 6'3"
<Admiral_Chicago> ?
<nixternal> ya
<nixternal> you forgot already?
<Admiral_Chicago> no, i don't remeber you being that tall.
<nixternal> 6'3", 230+, size 12 boot fo yo a#@#
<nixternal> ya, RJ has me by like an inch or 2
<nixternal> damn kids
<Admiral_Chicago> yea hes a tall one for no good reason
* tonyyarusso is 5'5", 118...
<nixternal> tonyyarusso: these shirts would be a perfect size
<nixternal> they aren't huge
<nixternal> hell, I think you are bigger than Admiral_Chicago
<nixternal> but my guys are gonna get them first
<Admiral_Chicago> nah, i'm a good 5' 9"
<nixternal> I think these shirts will only fit Admiral_Chicago and his brother
<nixternal> I can't think of anyone in my LUG that could wear um
<Admiral_Chicago> dude my brother is *much* taller than me :)
<nixternal> hahaha, you lie
<Admiral_Chicago> why yes i do
<tonyyarusso> nixternal: I usually wear a medium in polos
<LaserJock> nixternal: I have a similar issue
<CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: nixternal * r3917 kubuntu/ (config-desktop/C/config-desktop.xml libs/kde-menus-C.ent): config-desktop ready for review - added new menu
<LaserJock> go nixternal go!
<nixternal> hehe
<nixternal> I think I am going to bring over the Ubuntu advanced topics and change them around for Kubuntu as well
<LaserJock> is it known that we aren't shipping nvidia or ati stuff?
<crimsun> it has been made clear on various mailing lists iirc
<crimsun> some exchange between mdz and pitti, at least
<Madpilot> the general Linux-using public is probably still confused, but so be it.
<crimsun> and I presume by "shipping" you meant "enabling by default"
<LaserJock> no, no.
<tonyyarusso> Hey, I heard from Digg, so it's somewhat known
<LaserJock> I mean we have no documentation for it
<LaserJock> we used to
<LaserJock> but we don't now
<nixternal> LaserJock: I removed the documentation from Kubuntu docs for 2 reasons. 1) we don't support it, and 2) I don't care what you put in there for a tutorial on getting it to work, it is going to destroy someones setup
<nixternal> I just refer them to a few links and let them know to read and read again before carrying through
<LaserJock> we don't support nvidia and ATI?
<nixternal> not the binary blobs
<LaserJock> that seems crazy
<nixternal> there is no way for us to troubleshoot it or debug it w/o the source
<LaserJock> that's always been the case
<LaserJock> but that doesn't mean you can document it
<LaserJock> *can't
<nixternal> well, if we document it, we have to make sure it works for everybody
<crimsun> it would be fairly ... strange to ship such documentation requiring a gui "help browser"
<nixternal> the Ubuntu documentation for Dapper, the NVidia and the ATI procedure didn't work for me as with Kubuntu
<LaserJock> so we ignore it?
<crimsun> since well, if you can't _get_ a gui (X.Org) running without said drivers running...
<nixternal> LaserJock: I didn't ignore it, I let the user know of locations they can research properly installing for their "card"
<LaserJock> I use nv until I get nvidia installed
<nixternal> with NVidia, all of the instructions for GF4 MX420/440 does not work
<nixternal> I can only use the nv driver for my card
<crimsun> 'nv' may work for some subset of chips; 'ati' simply will not work for many X* chips
<nixternal> if you use the install directions we had, the user would be stairing at a black screen with a cursor in the top left corner blinking at them
<LaserJock> fine, I really don't care what works on what
<nixternal> heh
<nixternal> LaserJock: I had killer documentation for ATI and NVidia just the other day
<crimsun> I'm not sure I understand what you're saying, then, Jordan.
<LaserJock> I just think that if a user does a search for nvidia or ATI in yelp they should get *something*
<nixternal> but after telling users in #kubuntu to try it, hell I had more issues than you can shake a stick at
<crimsun> if you don't care what works on what, what's the point?
<nixternal> brb
<LaserJock> that there should be *something*
<nixternal> ahh, LaserJock in Kubuntu they will get something :)
<nixternal> whew, I am good then ;p
<crimsun> how can users use yelp if they can't even get to a gui?
<LaserJock> many can
<LaserJock> I've never had a problem with that
<nixternal> even people who have Intel and Matrox cards get information in my docs :)
<LaserJock> and I'm sure I"m not alone
<LaserJock> I've even used vesa before to learn how to get nvidia installed
<crimsun> sure, but what about people for whom vesa fails? and I mean _utterly_.
<LaserJock> then they are screwed no matter what I guess
<LaserJock> but *not* putting docs won't help theme either
<crimsun> There's an ATI X600 sitting in my folks' PC that fits that precise use case.
<LaserJock> then the doc isn't for them
<LaserJock> so we don't want to help *anybody* because we can't help *everybody*
<LaserJock> ?
<crimsun> I don't think that's the argument
<LaserJock> well, I'm just saying for those people who are using radeon, vesa, or nv to get up and running
<crimsun> I think the way to proceed to ask the installer guru if the aforementioned hook with accompanying text will be available in feisty
<Admiral_Chicago> shouldn't Bug 80390 be marked as Fix Released
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 80390 in ubuntu-docs "Feisty's default Firefox homepage still reports Edgy" [High,Fix committed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/80390
<crimsun> is to ask ^
<LaserJock> crimsun: that would make sense, yes
<Admiral_Chicago> I just got 7.04 on my fresh profile
<crimsun> Admiral_Chicago: marked FR.
<Admiral_Chicago> oh wait, I'm dyslexic...
<Admiral_Chicago> damn
<LaserJock> well, I guess maybe I'm just not thinking right :(
<Admiral_Chicago> wait, no. thanks crimsun
<LaserJock> it just seems like a regression to me
<Admiral_Chicago> i *am* dyslexic
<crimsun> LaserJock: it _is_ a regression, yes. No one's debating that stance.
<Madpilot> LaserJock, I noticed in the help wiki that the instructions for getting 3d support in Edgy w/ an ATI card are far more complex than the equivalent Breezy or Dapper info...
<CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: nixternal * r3918 kubuntu/ (hardware/C/hardware.xml libs/kde-menus-C.ent): added partition and booting info to hardware.xml harddrives section - ready for review - added new menu
<CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: nixternal * r3919 kubuntu/ (index.xml tmplibs/): removing doc.ubuntu.com index stuff and tmplibs dir - preparing to incorporate a KHelpCenter front page
<Madpilot> spambot ;)
<nixternal> whew
<nixternal> proofreading time, a whole 2 days
<nixternal> if something got left out, oh well, feisty+1
* nixternal beds
<mdke> morning
<nixternal> morning :)
<mdke> hiya nixternal
<mdke> how's it going?
<nixternal> one eye open, fixing some Konqueror docs for KDE, trying to get the energy to crawl into bed
<nixternal> how's it going with you?
<mdke> :)
<mdke> good thanks
<mdke> been mega busy moving house and at work
<nixternal> ahh, I was wondering where you had been hiding
<mdke> no internet yet
<mdke> except for my neighbour's
<nixternal> ouch, can't wait for that I bet
<mdke> yeah
<mdke> good job taking care of kubuntu-docs :)
<nixternal> Thanks. Time for some proofing, and then in 2 days generate the po's for translations
<nixternal> oh well, bed time. g'nite
<poningru> nn
<CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: nixternal * r3920 kubuntu/newtokubuntu/C/newtokubuntu.xml: spelling error
<nixternal> OK, now I can goto bed :)
<mdke> night
<CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: philbull * r3921 ubuntu/musicvideophotos/C/musicvideophotos.xml: Restructure music section for readibility
<crimsun> mgalvin: never heard if -9.16 resolved your inaudible sound. If not, this next one should (just pushed a gigantenormous patch to BenC)
<somerville32> Where is mdke at?
<nixternal> he is probably at work
<nixternal> I believe he has a new job, plus he has been moving as well
<kdefreak> Any blank spots that need to be filled in?
<fijam> hello
<CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: philbull * r3922 ubuntu/keeping-safe/C/keeping-safe.xml: Change title of updating section to make the word update more prominent
<Admiral_Chicago> okay, proofing stuff now richard
<Admiral_Chicago> theres quite a bit of stuff to download
<Admiral_Chicago> anyone know how to list the number of installeable packages
<Admiral_Chicago> i know its close more than 1800
<Admiral_Chicago> wait, synaptic.
<CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: mdke * r3923 ubuntu/ (3 files in 3 dirs):
<CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: * changes in build of Switching to Windows, for easier inclusion on
<CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: winfoss section of livecd
<CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: * not draft anymore
<CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: * updated header image for html
<Admiral_Chicago> nixternal: check your email. sent some edits your way. do what you will with them
#ubuntu-doc 2007-03-07
<nixternal> roger
<crimsun> wilco
<nixternal> man, I had this drink called a "Racehorse", 4 shots of expresso, vanilla, and some ice
<nixternal> I feel like I swallowed dynamite
<crimsun> no, that's after you install Vista!
<nixternal> heh, nevah!
<CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: philbull * r3924 ubuntu/keeping-safe/C/keeping-safe.xml: Added section-based layout to users and groups section
<etchian_> hi
<etchian_> Does the GFDL meets the Ubuntu License evaluation criteria?
<Admiral_Chicago> why do you ask?
<CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: philbull * r3925 ubuntu/games/C/games.xml: Fix typo
<CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: philbull * r3926 kubuntu/games/C/games.xml: Fix typo
<CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: philbull * r3927 ubuntu/printing/C/printing.xml: Minor edits for style and structure
<etchian_> If we GFDL Ubuntu documentation derivative, would that meet your License criteria, Admiral_Chicago?
<etchian_> I want to build on your documentation if the license allows it, but we gfdl our documentation.
<omgponiezlol> i'm definetly not the man to answer that question. as far as i know, doc work is CC SA license
<etchian_> Ok.  I am no license pro either.  I just write doc.
<omgponiezlol> i just proof read...lol
<etchian_> I do that to :-)
<etchian_> Looks like doc is pretty decentralized, in Ubuntu.  Am I right?
<tonyyarusso> etchian_: well, there's the doc team coordinating it all, but things come in from all over, ya
<etchian_> The doc team, is that Corey's department?
<jjesse> corey does some work yeah
<etchian_> Well, looks like Google will be the best line of attack...
<etchian_> Thanks for the information, guys.
<nixternal> etchian_: our docs are CC-by-SA, so in order to re-use our docs you would have to license your docs CC-by-SA as well
<omgponiezlol> nixternal: in the kubuntu >> games doc, there is a link for planet tux racer
<omgponiezlol> the link was dead by last compile
<omgponiezlol> should i take it out?
<omgponiezlol> i just checked it, the link is still dead?
<omgponiezlol> *dead.
<omgponiezlol> i figured you would know, it's part of a small patch I'm working on
<jjesse> take it out if the link is dead
<omgponiezlol> thanks jjesse
<jjesse> np omgponiezlol
<omgponiezlol> blah this doc is long, last one for the night
<jjesse> yeah i know it is long :)
<jjesse> ok just have ubiquity screen shots and this is done :)
<omgponiezlol> though to be fair i shouldn't be complaining to you about doc work...ha.
<nixternal> omgponiezlol: don't take it out, find another link for it
<nixternal> oh wait, ya, tux racer, it is dead
<jjesse> nixternal: the upgrader is sweet
<jjesse> upgrading right now via it
<omgponiezlol> oops, dang i'll check the diff and put it back
<nixternal> omgponiezlol: http://developer.berlios.de/projects/ppracer/
<nixternal> replace the link with that one
<omgponiezlol> will do
<CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: nixternal * r3928 kubuntu/basic-concepts/C/basic-concepts.xml: Freddy's patch
<nixternal> Admiral_Chicago: what are you working on now?
<Admiral_Chicago> nixternal: games patch
<nixternal> games?
<Admiral_Chicago> last one for the night
<Admiral_Chicago> yea two small edits
<nixternal> games shouldn't be all that bad since it has been worked on by many
<Admiral_Chicago> nope, it was a punctuation thing.
<nixternal> hey, Kubuntu includes more than 1,000 pieces of software, it has access to over 20,000 :)
<Admiral_Chicago> what did I say?
<Admiral_Chicago> oh i see, hmm. either way, the fix was needed for one or the other
<Admiral_Chicago> i think
<nixternal> Admiral_Chicago: don't worry so much about word wrapping. grammar and spell checking is what needs fixing
<Admiral_Chicago> okay, it looked all good to me. See me remove the "however" in one.
<nixternal> add-applications and about-kubuntu files didn't seem to have any grammar or spell checking really done on them
<nixternal> ya, I seen that
<Admiral_Chicago> okay i'll keep that in mind.
<nixternal> right now, it would be best to try and grab the super obvious
* Admiral_Chicago has a major test tomorrow
<Admiral_Chicago> afk
<Admiral_Chicago> will do.
<nixternal> although we need to take it up a notch because I know Caroline Ford is chomping at the bits to report bug after bug on these docs
<jjesse> nixternal: i'm finishing the chpt today
<jjesse> so i can focus tomorrow
<jjesse> right now i'm upgrading to feisty
<jjesse> hopefully it works
<jjesse> only 3 hours and 5 minutes remaining
<nixternal> hehe, Feisty has been crashing for me the past couple of days, right in the middle of something as well
<nixternal> I am sure it is probably residual leftovers from the updates during the entire dev cycle
<nixternal> jjesse: as long as I have the xml2po's done by Thursday we are good :)
<jjesse> good
<Admiral_Chicago> nixternal: what time thursday?
<nixternal> Admiral_Chicago: when I say so I am thinking
<nixternal> I can probably get an extra day or 2 out of it anyways as well
<jjesse> so here's a fun fact, i got a note yesterday at the hotel that they will be doing maintenence and water will be unavailable from 10am to 4pm
<jjesse> and the water is still off
<jjesse> :(
<nixternal> I will try to extend a week due to some of the herd releases being late
<nixternal> jjesse: that sucks!
<Admiral_Chicago> i can help during the morning / early afternoon.
<nixternal> I will be doing a little tomorrow, then I am gone all evening tomorrow
<Admiral_Chicago> or i'm on break this Friday. mucho tiempo para Ubuntu
<nixternal> heh, Admiral_Chicago to bad the dev cycle is pretty much over with now :)
<Admiral_Chicago> either way, msg me and I'll help
<Admiral_Chicago> ya i was on break while it was starting and busy as a bee during the real work
<nixternal> I am going to take classes through the summer, to bad IT wise their courses suck, so I am going to take an ASP.NET class, Java class, Philosophy and Ethics, and my 3rd class I haven't figured out just yet
<nixternal> I was going to do the Advanced C++ course, but I am going to wait until the fall semester for that
<Admiral_Chicago> blah, .Net
<Admiral_Chicago> my first language...
<nixternal> jjesse: hey, for that Konqueror Handbook bug that I thought I fixed, well it seems we reconfigure Konqi not to have Go and Window in the menubar, so if you want, you can create a patch against kdebase for Kubuntu
<nixternal> that is the only way to fix the problem, it isn't an upstream issue, which is odd, because SuSE and Fedora remove them as well
<jjesse> umm i don't know how to create  patch
<nixternal> so when I checked my other boxes and noticed the same thing
<jjesse> so can you take the bug and do it?
<nixternal> I can do it if you would like
<nixternal> sure, I will rock out
<CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: nixternal * r3929 kubuntu/games/C/games.xml: Freddy's patch minus the operating system portion - operating system isn't capatilized
<Admiral_Chicago> it is too!
<crimsun> Ubuntu Help Center looks nice
<nixternal> Admiral_Chicago: no it isn't!
<nixternal> Admiral_Chicago: check Wikipedia, they know everything :)
<nixternal> at least install KDict, it knows a lot as well
<CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: nixternal * r3930 kubuntu/Makefile: updated makefile - removed temp index build
<mdke> morning
<Admiral_Chicago> nixternal: sent you some work.
<philbull> Hi guys
<philbull> I'm looking at trunk/ubuntu/internet/C/internet.xml
<philbull> It sets the following in the header: 'yelp:chunk-depth 2' and 'db.chunk.max_depth 2'
<philbull> This causes anything below a sect1 to be linked rather than included with each sect1
<philbull> It seems to have been put in to break up the 'Connecting to the Internet' section, but I'd like to remove it if possible and just rearrange that section
<philbull> it makes reading the other sections a bit of a pain...
<philbull> any thoughts on this>
<philbull> ?
<CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: nixternal * r3931 kubuntu/getting-help/C/getting-help.xml: Freddy's patch
<nixternal> Admiral_Chicago: why would I want to ignore the Bluetooth stuff?
<Admiral_Chicago> not sure if it needed the <trademark>
<Admiral_Chicago> thought it would but I wasn't 100%
<Admiral_Chicago> hehe, getting another one ready for you
<nixternal> bah, forget trademarks, we are breaking the law anyways by not trademarking Microsoft and Apple, so who cares :)
<nixternal> /mnt or /media - nobody use /mnt anymore?
<Admiral_Chicago> no
<nixternal> us.archives suck
<Admiral_Chicago> earlier in the doc, it said automounted partitions go to /media
<Admiral_Chicago> i know.
<Admiral_Chicago> fstab mounts automatically, therefore it goes to /media
<nixternal> ok
<nixternal> are you working on that? if not I will just autoreplace it right now
<nixternal> are you telling me you are not finding a lot of typos and such?
<Admiral_Chicago> i sent the patch about it, that was all that was needed that I saw
<Admiral_Chicago> err while you slept
<nixternal> you didn't send the hardware patch, it was a blank email with a lil text
<Admiral_Chicago> wait, let me check that.
<Admiral_Chicago> sending now.
<Admiral_Chicago> haha, okay
<nixternal> Admiral_Chicago: when are you going to be home?
<nixternal> this weekend at all?
<Admiral_Chicago> Saturday.
<nixternal> what are you doing Saturday?
<Admiral_Chicago> nothing that I know of
<nixternal> I have those shirts if you want them
<Admiral_Chicago> we are getting in no later than 3.
<Admiral_Chicago> are we talking anything monetary because i'm broke as a joke
<nixternal> NO
<nixternal> FREEEEEEEEE
<Admiral_Chicago> sweet!
<nixternal> screw it, I wasted $50, so...
<nixternal> I am done, the only way I will wear an Ubuntu shirt now, is if someone gives it to me
<Admiral_Chicago> haha. aww.
* Admiral_Chicago hugs nixternal 
<nixternal> so, I will continue wearing my KDE one, PCLinuxOS, Debian, and Slackware t's :)
<nixternal> my GPLv3 t-shirt got shredded last night by my dog
<Admiral_Chicago> no way.
<Admiral_Chicago> dude you have the worst luck ever
<nixternal> hehe
<nixternal> we were playing rough and he jumped up and grabbed the entire front of the shirt in his mouth
<nixternal> 100lbs pitty can do that
<Admiral_Chicago> okay i'll send you the patch I have now. I've got "school" to deal with
<Admiral_Chicago> nixternal: i thought the first sentence refered to the -chicago talk
<nixternal> same here, but not until later
<nixternal> huh?
<Admiral_Chicago> i'm like..."RJ did that"
<nixternal> explain, I am not awake as of yet
<Admiral_Chicago> gotta run
<CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: nixternal * r3932 kubuntu/hardware/C/hardware.xml: Freddy's patch
<CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: nixternal * r3933 kubuntu/network/C/network.xml: Freddy's patch
<CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: philbull * r3934 ubuntu/desktop-effects/C/desktop-effects.xml: Update status
<CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: philbull * r3935 ubuntu/games/C/games.xml: Update status
<philbull> hi guys
<philbull> could someone take a look at a patch for me?
<philbull> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-doc/2007-March/008226.html
<CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: philbull * r3936 ubuntu/musicvideophotos/C/musicvideophotos.xml: Restructure into topics, change layout
<nalioth> howdy, how do i change this page? https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RestrictedFormats/PlayingDVDs
<nalioth> it is not "wrong", but it has the user go through a lot of extra stuff (enabling "extra" repos) than is necessary
<CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: philbull * r3937 ubuntu/internet/C/internet.xml: Restructure into topics, amalgamate some sections, rename sections
<CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: philbull * r3938 ubuntu/musicvideophotos/C/musicvideophotos.xml: Update ghelp link for changes in internet.xml
<nalioth> all one needs to do if they are running dapper is open a console and type "sudo /usr/share/doc/libdvdread3/examples/install-css.sh" <enter> and they'll get libdvdcss2
<nalioth> i don't like the idea of "enabling extra repositories"
<dsas> nalioth: that doesn't hold true on later releases does it?
<dsas> nalioth: Can't you just edit the page?
<nalioth> i said "on dapper" which is currently shipping via shipit, right?  it is still supported, yes?
<nalioth> dsas: it's not a wiki page
<nalioth> otw, i would have fixed it on the spot
<dsas> *shrug* I have an edit button.
<dsas> nalioth: Anything in the help.ubuntu.com/community namespace is a wikipage.
* nalioth looks for the edit button
<dsas> top left.
<nalioth> ahhh 'please refrain from editing"
<dsas> hmm, I can't see that?
<nalioth> i do. you are editing it
<dsas> *grin*, oh sorry ignore that. I was just checking.
<CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: philbull * r3939 ubuntu/keeping-safe/C/keeping-safe.xml: Fix validity error
<CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: philbull * r3940 ubuntu/games/C/games.xml: Fix validity error
* nalioth grumbles about new fangled layouts
<nalioth> i didn't see "logged in as $name" so thought it wasn't a wiki . . . .
<nalioth> thanks
<dsas> nalioth: Not a problem
<dsas> bah
#ubuntu-doc 2007-03-08
<gabe_> is some one please able to tell me how to convert docbook in to html? :)
<Admiral_Chicago> nixternal: i think i've looked at every single kubuntu doc.
<Admiral_Chicago> I sent my last patch. be back much later
<dsas> gabe_: If you have the ubuntu-doc repository checked out there's an example in the Makefile.
<gabe_> yes
<gabe_> i tried it
<gabe_> didn't work
<gabe_> i'll just try again
<gabe_> it says make sure
<gabe_> docbook-xsl is installed - OK
<gabe_> i get:
<gabe_> :~/ubuntu-doc/ubuntu$ make dg
<gabe_> make: *** No rule to make target `dg'. Stop.
<gabe_> :(
<gabe_> dsas: am i getting it wrong?
<dsas> gabe_: I don't know, never tried it myself. Let me play.
<gabe_> :)
<gabe_> i'm just reading what to do from: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/Repository
<dsas> gabe_: You need "make website" I think, though that fails for me.
<dsas> hmm, yay, it is working now.
<gabe_> ?
<gabe_> ahh that web page is wrong then
<gabe_> :(
<gabe_> $ make website
<gabe_> make: Nothing to be done for `website'.
<dsas> hmph
<dsas> gabe_: hmm, it didn't finish properly for me actually.
<nixternal> whee
<Burgundavia> hmm
<Burgundavia> I need somebody to pass the ownership of the wiki team too
<nixternal> what?
<nixternal> Burgundavia: are you taking a break now?
<nixternal> I am willing to step up if you need me to
<Burgundavia> nixternal: trying to get rid of the ubuntu-doc bugmail
<nixternal> ahhh
<Burgundavia> I gave it to Matthew East
<Burgundavia> pretty much trying to clear out my inbox
<nixternal> hehe, I hear you there
<Burgundavia> as I am simply not getting to most of my mail
<nixternal> well if you want pass it on over
<nixternal> I am here all day long 99.9% of the time
<Burgundavia> already passed to mdke
<nixternal> the other .1% I am sleeping in class :)
<nixternal> oh
<Burgundavia> now I need somebody to take most of my list admin stuff off my hands
<nixternal> I can help you there if need be as well
<Burgundavia> ah, ok
<nixternal> what list?
<nixternal> don't give me ubuntu-bugs or something
<nixternal> hahaha
<Burgundavia> I have -devel-discuss, -users, -directory, -doc, -ca and -news
<Burgundavia> you want -doc?
<nixternal> sure
<nixternal> wait, I have doc already I though
<nixternal> s/though/thought
<Burgundavia> yep, you already do
<nixternal> heh
<Burgundavia> I am merely going to remove myself
<nixternal> that takes one off the list
<Burgundavia> yewp
<Burgundavia> I will probably post to -devel-discuss about it
<nixternal> what is -directory?
<Burgundavia> ldap and other stuff
<Burgundavia> I don't mind -ca, -news or -directory
<nixternal> heh, is directory really necessary seeing as only 10 emails have been exchanged since October?
<Burgundavia> well, it was active then
<Admiral_Chicago> nixternal: ping
<Admiral_Chicago> oh wait, i think you're afk...
<nixternal> yo yo
<CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: nixternal * r3941 kubuntu/ (2 files in 2 dirs): Freddy's patches
<Admiral_Chicago> so were do I send patches for xubuntu
<CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: nixternal * r3942 kubuntu/system-settings/C/system-settings.xml: Bluetooth is a registered trademark
<Admiral_Chicago> also, I have a "xref linkend="extra-repositories" command, not sure what to do
<nixternal> Admiral_Chicago: ubuntu-doc@lists.ubuntu.com
<Admiral_Chicago> i want to see what it directs users to when it is compiled
<nixternal> Admiral_Chicago: make sure that in the root of your trunk/ checkout that you svn up prior to making changes
<nixternal> I can't use your networking2.patch
<Admiral_Chicago> any particular reason?
<Admiral_Chicago> there was a spelling fix and a sentence flow fix but its your call
<mdke> morning
<mdke> wow, philbull is rocking
<CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: mdke * r3943 /trunk/ (22 files in 22 dirs): slight modification to get-pot.sh, refreshing pot templates
<CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: mdke * r3944 /trunk/ (2 files in 2 dirs):
<CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: * changelog entry
<CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: * fixing broken link
<CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: mdke * r3945 ubuntu/newtoubuntu/C/newtoubuntu.xml: bug 89156
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 89156 in ubuntu-docs "There is no mac-os-x.xml " [High,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/89156
<CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: mdke * r3946 debian/changelog: fixing email address
<mdke> bhuvan: it's string freeze now, so quite soon we need to get the server material in shape. I'd suggest that maybe sometime this weekend I'll branch the feisty material, and then you can remove the incomplete sections, and continue working on them in trunk
<mdke> --> work
<gabe_> g'morning!
<CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: lucius * r3947 xubuntu/desktopguide/C/common-tasks.xml: patch from freddy
<_ion> The Ubuntu Weekly News feed at http://fridge.ubuntu.com/uwn/feed seems to be outdated. It lists issue #28 as the newest one. Is this the correct place to report this?
<nixternal> _ion: #ubuntu-fridge would be correct, but we already have it in queue there, but thanks for noticing
<nixternal> I will update the Fridge shortly
<_ion> Thanks
<somerville32> So, can we start working on Feisty +1 documentation? ;] 
<jsgotangco> heh when feisty documentation gets branched
<somerville32> Now that we are in string freeze, it seems logical to be to branch it.
<somerville32> That way we can continue to work our butts off to improve documentation and have a seperate "stable" branch where we make the exception to the string freeze edits
<somerville32> Then after the release, we just merge the feisty branch into the feisty+1 branch.
<jsgotangco> yeah but someone will have to take charge of translations as well
<jsgotangco> writing the actual docs is just half of the battle
<somerville32> Right, translations will be on the feisty tag
<CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: nixternal * r3948 kubuntu/ (5 files in 4 dirs):
<CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: Created Kubuntu System Documentation Index
<CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: Updated Kubuntu Makefile to include above doc
<CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: Updated systemdocs.desktop to point to valid location
<nixternal> boooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooyaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
* nixternal waits for more patches, hurry people so I can xml2po these badboys
<jsgotangco> you need a better whip if you want me to write again
<nixternal> lol
<nixternal> well, I have warn out my welcome here :) so I am packing up and heading out to bigger and better things
<nixternal> like Microsoft development!
<nixternal> hahaha, j/k
<jsgotangco> right!
<nixternal> hehe
<nixternal> I am heading over and taking over a couple of KDE projects
<nixternal> KOrganizer, Mailody, and a coupld of other small projects
<nixternal> starting out with docs, but I am working on coding patches as well
<jsgotangco> bastard
<nixternal> what?
<nixternal> why me?
<nixternal> I have a daddy ;p
<nixternal> haha
<nixternal> you my baby's daddy?
<nixternal> that was a stupid movie
<jsgotangco> did you see that entry in digg about this guy in stanford rapping about kill -9
<nixternal> lol, no? was it recent? /me actually goes and reads digg for this one
<jsgotangco> yeah
<jsgotangco> "you're a dial up connection, I'm a gigabit LAN"
<nixternal> haha
<nixternal> I am watching it
<nixternal> unix commands rap
<nixternal> hahahahah
<jsgotangco> hehe
* somerville32 always reads "rape" instead of "rap".
<nixternal> heh, you need help
* somerville32 is getting some.
<nixternal> haha
<jsgotangco> http://www.monzy.com/intro/drama_lyrics.html
<nixternal> ya, layin' in a hospital bed with a lappy and office
<nixternal> DWORD to your moms!
<nixternal> gahahahahah
<jsgotangco> I run gmake and gcc,
<jsgotangco> And I ain't never called malloc without calling free.
<nixternal> hahahaha
<nixternal> ctrl-x, ctrl-c, i will discard your f'n buffer
<nixternal> I love the emacs plug there
<nixternal> hahahah, my lyrics get stolen by sucker MCs, I gotta sign my rhymes in PGP
<jsgotangco> nerdcore can be funny sometimes
<nixternal> my god, I have to take his music to class
<nixternal> my c++ instructor and I are the only nix geeks
<nixternal> the rest of the kids in class our MySpace junkies
<nixternal> s/our/are
<jsgotangco> man maybe i should consider writing songs like this instead hahaha
<nixternal> no doubt
<nixternal> there is money to be made
<jsgotangco> http://www.rhymetorrents.com/disc1/
<jsgotangco> hehe
<CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: philbull * r3949 ubuntu/musicvideophotos/C/musicvideophotos.xml: Change section ids so front page link not broken (no strings changed)
<LaserJock> doh! I thought string freeze was today
<Admiral_Chicago> it was.
<LaserJock> who's doing the UWN these days?
<LaserJock> issue 30 has some ... issues
<Admiral_Chicago> everyone and anyone
<Admiral_Chicago> Corey and Cody didn't have much to do this one
<Admiral_Chicago> LaserJock: what issues? i haven't seen it but I give them fix
<LaserJock> it says that Beryl and Compiz aren't being shipped in Feisty
<LaserJock> Compiz is installed by default
<Admiral_Chicago> whoa. give me a sec
<LaserJock> it's just not the default WM until you turn on the desktop-effects stuff
<LaserJock> Also it says that Ubucon *will* take place Feb 16th
<LaserJock> it's written in a future tense when it really should have been a wrapup of what happened
<LaserJock> I'm guessing that part was writen before Feb 16th
<LaserJock> *written
<Admiral_Chicago> remember that UWN is from a month ago
<LaserJock> but why is it just released now?
<Admiral_Chicago> WTH!
<Admiral_Chicago> someone changed that section
<Admiral_Chicago> LaserJock: I wrote the section that you are talking about
<LaserJock> it was just edited today and it is on the Fridge today
<Admiral_Chicago> the current version is *not* what I wrote
<Admiral_Chicago> i see all the feisty changes are everything I wrote
* Admiral_Chicago grumbles. I did a lot of work on this before I got wicked busy with midterms
<LaserJock> well, it's been edited quite a bit in the last few days
<Admiral_Chicago> after all the chatter on the ML, I expected it to be much better
<Admiral_Chicago> they *completely* took out my link from the TB decision.
<Admiral_Chicago> LaserJock: header now reads "No Composite installed by Default"
<LaserJock> Admiral_Chicago: might want to let the fridge people know
<LaserJock> Admiral_Chicago: they've got it in their little intro
<Admiral_Chicago> i'll find the ML and let them know
<Admiral_Chicago> dammit, i knew I should have been checking what they were doing on UWN
<Admiral_Chicago> do they have channel? i can't find a ML for them
<LaserJock> for fridge?
<LaserJock> I thought they had a channel and ML
<Admiral_Chicago> i'll just msg Daniel.
<Admiral_Chicago> i dunno the channel. i couldn't find the list on the page.
<somerville32> #ubuntu-fridge
<somerville32> And the list is hidden
<somerville32> However, I happen to know what it is
<Admiral_Chicago> somerville32: we need you back on UWN... :(
<somerville32> You'll get me back when I get out of the hospital :D
<Admiral_Chicago> dammit, okay i see what happens.
<Admiral_Chicago> somerville32: is there a way i could take it over until Corey isn't so busy with things like the book?
<somerville32> This is an open source project - you don't really "need" to ask. If you see a need, fill it.
<somerville32> If you start stepping on people's toes, they'll let you know ;] 
<Admiral_Chicago> gah. i had my entire section which I wrote very carefully edited
* Admiral_Chicago goes to class.
<somerville32> :)
<CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: mdke * r3950 ubuntu/add-applications/C/add-applications.xml: bug reported on mailing list
<mdke> ah, praises
* mdke is back
#ubuntu-doc 2007-03-09
<nixternal> anyone want to give a quick glance at kubuntu docs? I am getting ready to freeze them
<jsgotangco> hmmm
<jsgotangco> what needs to be glanced at?
<nixternal> a-z :)
<nixternal> everything not in unused
<nixternal> a quick once through to see if anything is obvious
<jjesse> nixternal: i haven't seen anything yet :)
<nixternal> ya, Admiral_Chicago has gone through and done some proofing
<nixternal> I can't send email!
<jjesse> cool
<nixternal> this is annoying
<crimsun> hehe, no spam from Rich! Yay!
<LaserJock> lol
<nixternal> haha
<nixternal> maybe a reboot
<jsgotangco> nixternal: there's only one thing to do you kill -9 ;-)
<mpt> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fow7iUaKrq4
<nixternal> hahaha
<nixternal> jsgotangco: I have an entire CIS department at school playing that today
<jsgotangco> bwahaha
<nixternal> hehe, even mpt is posting it!
<nixternal> I grabbed their torrents earlier, going to convert them to ogg in a bit
<jsgotangco> coolies
<nixternal> got my email working
<nixternal> I called comcast and they said I am sending Spam
<jjesse> nixternal: just a question do you think we should be going into more detail on the whole system settings info?
<nixternal> so they tell me to run a virus scan on my PC to make sure Outlook or Outlook express isn't effected
<jjesse> like how when you start wine for the first time it will try to install wine
<nixternal> then I got upset and let them know that Microsoft blows, I use Linux, we don't have viruses, YOU DO!
<nixternal> she then went on and told me to use IE to connect to their website, at that time I refused to talk to her and asked for a manager
<nixternal> oh lord, the manager was worse
<LaserJock> dude
<nixternal> he said it is possible that I have a worm that sent roughly 1500 spam emails today
<nixternal> I let him know I was at school from 10am to 5pm, and the laptop wasn't connect to a network that allows me to send email.
<nixternal> he said it occured roughly before noon
<LaserJock> you don't have another computer?
<nixternal> yes
<nixternal> but none of them are using email accounts
<nixternal> they are test machines that are only running when I need screenshots or are testing something
<nixternal> my server only has access to 1 port for ssh
<LaserJock> so no machines were on that had access to the internet
<nixternal> Comcast was wrong. It took a level 3 support admin to tell me that it was their fault
<nixternal> yes, my server has access to the internet, but doesn't have smtp or sendmail
* nixternal goes and eats some dinner
<nixternal> back in a few to get ready for the deep freeze
<jjesse> nixternal: is there a reason that under printing.xml you didn't mention the new hp setup?
<nixternal> I didn't even know about a new HP setup
<jjesse> nixternal: the hp tool in kmenu
<nixternal> interesting
<jjesse> under utilities
<jjesse> brining up feisty vm right now
<nixternal> ya, I am looking at it
<jjesse> it worked well for setting up my hp device
<nixternal> does it do only locally installed devices or network devices as well?
<jjesse> i haven't tried a netwrok device
<jjesse> but if i recall it should work
<nixternal> hrmm, doesn't do Samba devices
<nixternal> how come nobody ever said a thing about this the entire release?
<jjesse> i didn't have a chance/ablitity to test it besides local device
<jjesse> its in the chapter of mine you read :P
<nixternal> heh, but never in the release notes
<jjesse> sorry to spring it late
<nixternal> ooh, I can steal from that can't I?
<jjesse> sure ca
<jjesse> can
<nixternal> man, that looks cool
<nixternal> now I will need to get my very own printer just to play with it
<jjesse> it is pretty cool
<nixternal> it won't do Samba though
<jjesse> file a bug and then fix it :P
<nixternal> why do I have to fix it?
<nixternal> haha
<jjesse> nixternal: network.xml line 102: "The are still the same in Kubuntu" should be "They are still the same in Kubuntu"
<jjesse> nixternal: network.xml line 425: Question on how the line reads about tthe 2.6.17 kernel and broadcom drivers
<jjesse> it just doesn't sound right to me, but maybe i'm missing something?
<jjesse> nixternal: network.xml line 445 question on <term>... configure, is that correct
<jjesse> never mind ignore that last one
<jjesse> nixternal: no other issues w/ network.xml
* nixternal fell asleep on the couch watching tv :)
<CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: nixternal * r3951 kubuntu/ (3 files in 3 dirs): cleaning, fixing, and adding
<nixternal> here we go
<CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: nixternal * r3952 kubuntu/ (18 files in 18 dirs): we got pot - not that kind either :)
<Admiral_Chicago> nixternal: you strange strange man
* nixternal hopes this package works
<CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: nixternal * r3953 kubuntu/newtokubuntu/C/newtokubuntu.xml: removing unneeded entity
<mdke> morning
<jsgotangco> hi
<bhuvan> morning mdke
<mdke> hiya bhuvan
<bhuvan> hey!
<mdke> bhuvan: get my message yesterday over irc?
<mdke> --> work
<bhuvan> mdke: yes
<CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: nixternal * r3954 kubuntu/firefox-startpage/index.html: cleaning firefox-homepage prior to uploading package
* nixternal uploads kubuntu-docs pre-translations :)
<nixternal> wooooohoooooo!
<mdke> any reason not to branch at this stage?
<LaserJock> mdke: I can't think of any
<LaserJock> mdke: I've got a couple bug fixes for the packaging guide to do but I can easily do that in the branch and trunk
* mdke nods
<nixternal> mdke: none that I can't think of
<nixternal> it will be good, we can start working on the next release
<mdke> rightyho
<nixternal> The Goofy Goose
<CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: mdke feisty * r3955 /: branching
<mdke> nice one
<nixternal> go go go!
<nixternal> LP going to be open for translations soon I hope
<nixternal> the only thing I will be uploading to branches/feisty will be an updated kubuntu/debian/ and translations, so I am ready for a new trunk :)
<mdke> cool
<nixternal> man it feels good to finally be done with this release, well almost done
<mdke> you did a great job
<nixternal> as did you and the rest of the group. Awesome work on the TBH!
<nixternal> Yelp looks great btw
<mdke> well, between us I think we have a significant percentage of the commits :)
<nixternal> hehe, you think?
<mdke> philbull put on a good spurt at the end though
<nixternal> Phil Bull, ya
<nixternal> haha
* mdke hugs LaserJock too for his packaging magic
<LaserJock> I hope it works
<LaserJock> :-)
<nixternal> oh, I am not hugging LaserJock, he kept making me do the packaging for edubuntu-docs :)
<nixternal> hahaha
<mdke> sure it works
<LaserJock> nixternal: but I fixed it and still gave you credit ;-)
<nixternal> I tried to get out of it, but I would be darned, everytime I came back online there was a ping
<nixternal> LaserJock: that's right...oh ya, darnit, here come the bugs for that one then :)
* nixternal changes email address
<LaserJock> lol
<nixternal> hehe
<LaserJock> I think we did good this release
<LaserJock> there's always more to do
<nixternal> ya, definitely opposite of the Edgy release
<mdke> yes, we should have a decent structure for the next release
<LaserJock> but despite me being useless things got done :-)
<nixternal> well, I am worried about Feisty+1 for Kubuntu
<mdke> the next release is all about more contributors and updating broken instructions :)
<nixternal> If KDE 4 comes out, man everything will change for us again
<LaserJock> I wouldn't think Feisty+1 would have KDE4 by default yet
<nixternal> I hope it does, and I hope it doesn't :)
<nixternal> KDE 4 should be by the end of Feisty+1, or shortly there after
<nixternal> well, you know what. I am already doing KDE 4 docs, so actually it won't be that big of a head ache, but it will definitely be a huge change
<nixternal> and now I am somehow in charge of KOrganizer's docs for kde4
<nixternal> bah, I need a drink!
* nixternal raises his glass of water to the Ubuntu Documentation Team
* mdke raises a big toe
<nixternal> hahahahaha
<mdke> hey, I'm tired
<nixternal> oh ya, +6 from me :)
<nixternal> I need to figure out what I am doing for dinner tonight
<dsas> isn't kde4 going to be in feisty universe?
<crimsun> it's up for debate
#ubuntu-doc 2007-03-10
<crimsun> right now it looks like it will gain weak approval
<dsas> congrats on the new-look yelp guys.
<dsas> i'm sure congrats are due to the kde guys away
* dsas hugs the docteam
<dsas> crimsun: hmm, sounds like an interesting situation.
<dsas> uhm s/away/as well
<dsas> I should go to bed.
<LaserJock> mdke nixternal: did you guys know that Universe is being turned on by default in Feisty?
<nixternal> yup
<nixternal> LaserJock: Universe and Multivers for Kubuntu, noted in help:/kubuntu/add-applications :)
<LaserJock> excellent
<LaserJock> I just found out
<nixternal> haha
<nixternal> wth, you are the mastah of the universe
<LaserJock> they never told us
<LaserJock> as far as I know
<LaserJock> I knew it was in the works since UDS-Paris
<LaserJock> but I didn't know the finally implemented it
<nixternal> wow since Paris, and within the past 2 or so weeks they finally did it
<LaserJock> yep
<nixternal> hey, for MOTU, is it true another MOTU has to sign my key before I can even be considered?
<LaserJock> it looks like the mostly did it because of the easy-codec installtion stuff
<nixternal> ahh
<nixternal> ya, easy codec garbage.
<LaserJock> well ...
<LaserJock> tbh my key was not signed by a Debian or Ubuntu dev before becoming a MOTU
<LaserJock> it *was* signed
<nixternal> well I know a few people like that, but I heard it is the *new* rule
<LaserJock> they best thing is to get a DD
<nixternal> there has to be a DD in the Chicago land area
<LaserJock> there's a webpage to locate them
<nixternal> ya, I am looking for it
<nixternal> I thought I had it bookmarked
<LaserJock> I honestly don't know what the policy is, I've never seen it written down
<LaserJock> I saw your comment in brandon's blog
<dsas> nixternal: https://nm.debian.org/gpg_offer.php
<dsas> nixternal: also see biglumber.com for general key signers (lots of familiar names there though)
<LaserJock> I used biglumber to do mine
<nixternal> dsas: been on the biglumber thing for over a year, never had anyone even contact me
<LaserJock> it'd be nice if they set a "distance" away from somebody you had to be
<nixternal> no parties in the area or anything related
<LaserJock> nixternal: I just looked for somebody in Reno and emailed them
<nixternal> oh sweet, Carlo Segre is a DD
<nixternal> good deal, so there are 2 DDs in the Chicago area, and one is/was in the Chicago GLUG
<dsas> nixternal: don't you run a loco team? you could do a key signing there.
<nixternal> dsas: we do key signings
<nixternal> we just don't have anyone cool :)
<dsas> nixternal: ah. I guess at least once you get signed, you can pass on your coolness ;)
<nixternal> hehe
<nixternal> my gpg key signatures remind me of a community where incest is rampid, it just goes in like 1 big circle
<mooey> howdy. i'm triaging a bug in a package's man page, the man page has a mistake in it. do the doc team want to be subscribed to the bug or should it be fixed upstream?
<LaserJock> upstream
<mooey> thought as much, thanks LaserJock
<LaserJock> np
<LaserJock> nixternal: pingy
<jjesse> hiya LaserJock
<LaserJock> hi jjesse
<jjesse> ok since no one is responding in #kubuntu, what's the easiest way to migrate from one kubuntu box to another w/o loosing any of my contacts/email/etc?
<dsas> copy all of your .directories (probably .kde/)?
<dsas> I'm not a kde user myself :)
<dsas> and use imap for email :)
<LaserJock> jjesse: you could tar up your ~/
<LaserJock> that's what I usually do
<jjesse> and then untar it?
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> I actually usually just untar it to ~/tmp or something
<LaserJock> and copy in just the stuff I need
<LaserJock> it kinda keeps things cleaned up
<LaserJock> and I keep the tar file as a backup
<jjesse> interesting
<LaserJock> it's my natural spring cleaning method ;-)
<nixternal> LaserJock: pongy
<mpt> jjesse, and once you've figured it out, create a "Migrate to another computer" assistant :-)
<nixternal> hehe
<mpt> because it would be a bad look for Ubiquity to make it easier to migrate from Windows to Ubuntu than (K)Ubuntu to (K)Ubuntu
<CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: nixternal feisty * r3956 /kubuntu/debian/ (8 files): updated debian/ dir for kubuntu-docs
<CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: nixternal * r3957 kubuntu/debian/ (8 files): feisty+1 debian updates - first upload - woooohoooo :)
<nixternal> mpt: you know what, don't think we have really looked at migrating for *buntu to *buntu, emphasis was always on Windows or Mac to *buntu
<nixternal> we have the small blurbs about Red Hat and other distros, but that would be a great piece of documentation, for feisty+1 of course :)
<LaserJock> nixternal: awesome, I forgot what I was going to say
<LaserJock> that's what I get for a contentless ping
<nixternal> lol
<jjesse> hiya ni
<jjesse> nixternal:
<nixternal> hiya jjesse :)
<jjesse> new dell latitude d820 came for work :)
<nixternal> nice
<nixternal> I am trying to replace a socket a mobo, talk about a pain
<nixternal> nobody is really selling them anymore
<nixternal> so, I have decided I should probably get a 64bit cheap mobo and cpu and just use all of my existing hardware
<nixternal> I can't push myself to spend the $65 to do so :)
<jjesse> cheap bastard
<nixternal> lol yes
<jjesse> man i'm tired
<nixternal> I am too
<jjesse> its hard to drive 5 hours
<nixternal> ouch, where did you drive 5 hours to/from?
<jjesse> columbus ohio to grand rapids mi
<tonyyarusso> jjesse: ...that's short
<nixternal> oh that is a fun drive
* tonyyarusso recently was doing 18 hour drives to school
<nixternal> 94 to 69/169 or whatever it is, down to columbus
<jjesse> i'm working in coubums for the next 3 weeks and come home on weekends to see wife
<nixternal> coubums ey
<nixternal> that was a very bad typo :)
<jjesse> hey i told you i'm sleepy
<nixternal> come on, I can columbus w/ my eyes closed ;p
<nixternal> hahahahahaha
<nixternal> I can type Columbus
<nixternal> OK, point taken
<nixternal> 18 hours to Florida :)
<nixternal> man, these Edgy doc translation updates for the package that never got made is taking forever
<poningru> https://help.ubuntu.com/6.10/ubuntu/desktopguide/C/ch10s02.html
<poningru> but there is no disk option in edgy
<nixternal> oh damn, I didn't remove the status="review" from the feisty docs :)
<nixternal> tis OK, they can be fixed before translations since the strings aren't translatable
<bodhizazen> Can I get some help with the Ubuntu wiki ?
<Madpilot> evening, bodhizazen - just fire your questions off, someone will be along to help
<bodhizazen> I can not log in to edit wiki pages
<bodhizazen> I enter my password, get to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UserPreferences
<bodhizazen> when I then change to a page to edit I'm back to "Log in to edit"
<bodhizazen> enter user name
<bodhizazen> enter password
<LaserJock> did you reload the page?
<bodhizazen> no
<bodhizazen> on this page https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UserPreferences
<bodhizazen> I can either log out ...
<bodhizazen> or save changes
<bodhizazen> If I save changes I get this : Please login before trying to save your preferences.
<bodhizazen> with this : Clear message
<bodhizazen> which brings me here : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UserPreferences?action=show
<LaserJock> if you log in
<LaserJock> then go back to the page you want to edit
<LaserJock> and hit reload
<bodhizazen> No I do not
<bodhizazen> I always go to the user preferences window
<bodhizazen> which puts me in an endless loop
<bodhizazen> When I go back to the page I want to edit
<bodhizazen> I always get log in to edit
<bodhizazen> either using my browser forward/back /reload
<bodhizazen> or entering a url
<bodhizazen> :(
<bodhizazen> OK I'm here :
<bodhizazen> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuForums/Beginners_FAQ
<bodhizazen> I need to transfer content here :
<LaserJock> ok
<bodhizazen> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Beginners/FAQ
<LaserJock> so if you go there and hit reload does that help?
<bodhizazen> Log in here OK : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuForums/Beginners_FAQ
<bodhizazen> Can edit that page ...
<bodhizazen> which is how the content was added in the first place :0
<bodhizazen> K
<bodhizazen> now go here : https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Beginners/FAQ
<bodhizazen> Page does not exist ...
<bodhizazen> create new empty page ...
<bodhizazen> OK that time I'm in ...
<bodhizazen> Transferred content ...
<bodhizazen> Need to delete this page now : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuForums/Beginners_FAQ
<bodhizazen> Argh it is an intermittent problem
<Madpilot> bodhizazen, to delete a page, click the More Actions dropdown, choose Delete Page right at the bottom
<bodhizazen> OK ...
<bodhizazen> That was one question, you do not mind if I delete pages then
<bodhizazen> :)
<bodhizazen> do you care if I document in community or the official ubuntu guide ?
<bodhizazen> And any ideas on why I get caught in an endless log-in loop ?
<bodhizazen> o,O
<bodhizazen> Is my account locked from time to time ?
<bodhizazen> Is it a problem that I need to log into the official guide first before community ?
<bodhizazen> And why would that be ?
<LaserJock> normally we redirect ont delete
<Madpilot> bodhizazen, if you haven't already, you should join the docteam/wikiteam mailing list. This channel can be pretty quiet - as you're discovering - and email is better for longer questions sometimes.
<bodhizazen> K
<bodhizazen> You probably don't want to hear this, but this has been a pervasive problem
<Madpilot> the login issue? That sounds almost like a cookie issue w/ your browser
<bodhizazen> I have 6 launchpad accounts ... The first 5 worked for a while ...
<bodhizazen> then this ...
<Madpilot> ouch
<bodhizazen> this is my 6th account ...
<Madpilot>  #launchpad is the LP admin hangout, it's another quiet channel but there are ppl there
<bodhizazen> And now I need access because I started a Beginners Team in the Ubuntu Forums
<bodhizazen> So you will be seeing more of me
<bodhizazen> I have wiki experience, all outside because of this problem ....
<Madpilot> cool, I just noticed the Beginner's Team thread in the Absolute Beginner's forum
<Madpilot> good luck
<bodhizazen> :)
* Madpilot really does have to crash.
<Madpilot> stupid roommate hogging the bathroom
<bodhizazen> Hey thanks for your help, I got done what I needed tonight ...
<Madpilot> good. if you've got time, join #launchpad and ask for help with that login issue - or just post to the docteam ML
<bodhizazen> docteam contact ?
<Madpilot> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam
<bodhizazen> :)
<Madpilot> ^^^ info on joining the mailing list and such there
<bodhizazen> get some sleep Madpilot
<Madpilot> g'night
<bodhizazen> 8)
<Madpilot> bodhizazen, last thing: talk to mdke when he logs back in, he's head of docteam
<bodhizazen> Laser_away, thanks ...
<mdke> morning :)
<bodhizazen> mdke, :)
<mdke> Laser_away: yes
<bodhizazen> Wanted to say hi
<bodhizazen> you may have seen me in the forums ...
<bodhizazen> Starting a beginners Team :)
<bodhizazen> We are interested in starting a beginners wiki
<mdke> what do you mean by that?
<bodhizazen> introduces ideas and then links to existing wiki pages for detailed info
<mdke> have you seen https://help.ubuntu.com/community/CommonQuestions
<bodhizazen> :)
<mdke> seems to have the same goals, you can probably simply work to improve that page
<bodhizazen> I have a few experienced members of the team and we would like to work on existing pages as well ...
<mdke> good
<mdke> you might also be interested in read https://help.ubuntu.com/community/forum
<bodhizazen> I joined your mailing list earlier
<mdke> that's a project I tried to set up because I'm aware of all the good material on the forum which we'd like to integrate into our docs
<mdke> as yet there are no real contributors to the team though
<bodhizazen> Well I hope to change that :)
<mdke> that would be really great
<mdke> another user expressed interest on the mailing list in a similar idea recently
<bodhizazen> I was having problems logging into the wiki ...
<mdke> sorted now?
<bodhizazen> ??
<mdke> did you resolve the problems?
<bodhizazen> I will be in touch if I have problems
<mdke> fine. Look forward to hearing from you on the mailing list :)
<bodhizazen> I have gotten requests for screen shots in the wiki
<mdke> have a read of those pages
<bodhizazen> how do you feel about that ?
<mdke> sure, quite a lot of pages have screenshots
<bodhizazen> Well wanted to say Hi
<bodhizazen> I do not know if it would help if I were a member of your team ?
<mdke> nice to have you on board. Have a look at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WikiGuide too if you haven't already
<bodhizazen> I have wiki experience :)
<mdke> sure, go ahead and join. instructions are here: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WikiTeam
<mdke> prod me if I forget to approve you
<bodhizazen> I would like to add a category ~ Beginners ?
<mdke> let's talk about that on the mailing list a bit
<bodhizazen> K
<bodhizazen> Did not see where to apply to your team ?
<bodhizazen> saw your page on launchpad
<bodhizazen> which is how I got the mailing list
<mdke> the page I posted last explains how to apply
<bodhizazen> K
<mdke> have a read of all of those pages
<bodhizazen> :)
<mdke> I have to go now, see you soon
<bodhizazen> FYI our channel is #ubuntuforums-beginners
<mdke> ok
<mdke> you should feel free to hang out and discuss doc related things in here
<bodhizazen> :)
<bodhizazen> I'll do that thanks
<bodhizazen> ~ go do more important things ;0
<bodhizazen> Ah ~ had to enable java to see the join button :)
<mdke> Laser_away: looks like we'll be able to make pluggable topics for edubuntu :) Don has saved the day, I'm going to try the patch now
<mdke> Laser_away: yep, works
<mdke> nixternal: ^^
<jjesse> hiya
<jjesse> grumble why can't this book finally be done
<mdke> :)
<Laser_away> mdke: rock on!!
#ubuntu-doc 2007-03-11
<nixternal> mdke: rock on!!
<tonyyarusso> nixternal: Do you know of good references for terms of FLOSS licenses?
<LaserJock> tonyyarusso: what do you mean by terms?
<tonyyarusso> LaserJock: True/False for allows modification, allows redistribution, allows commercial use, requires attribution, etc.
<LaserJock> you'd have to look at the licenses themselves I think
<LaserJock> they are pretty diverse
<tonyyarusso> Righto
<LaserJock> FSF is pretty good
<tonyyarusso> That just confirms what I thought then.  I'm going to _attempt_ to change that - my goal is to make a tool where you select the checkboxes for the terms you want applied to your code, and it recommends a license.
<tonyyarusso> LaserJock: Any thoughts/suggestions?
<LaserJock> tonyyarusso: might be better as a webpage
<tonyyarusso> LaserJock: I'm still pondering it's form.  Ideally there would be both web and onboard versions, which of course is twice as much work, but hey.
<tonyyarusso> *its
<LaserJock> well, I suppose if you wrote it as a python backend it'd be pretty easy to do web and app frontends
<tonyyarusso> Yeah?  How do web frontends to python work?
<LaserJock> you just use mod_python
<LaserJock> revu is python
<LaserJock> for instance
<tonyyarusso> So as long as the web host has that enabled, it works.
<tonyyarusso> hmm
<LaserJock> well, there's web specific stuff that'd need to be written
<LaserJock> but it's all done in python
<tonyyarusso> Cool
<Madpilot> The Creative Commons folks have a chooser like that - answer a series of questions about what rights you want to release/keep over the work, it'll suggest CC lics for you
<Madpilot> tonyyarusso, ^^^
<robotgeek> howdy folks
<Madpilot> evening robotgeek
<robotgeek> how you been, Madpilot ?
<tonyyarusso> Madpilot: I saw that the other day - seemed to only include the CC ones though
<Madpilot> robotgeek, good, busy, not doing any -doc stuff beyond hanging out here
<robotgeek> i'm off too, work is too busy
<Madpilot> tonyyarusso, yeah, it's CC specific - there is a CC'd GPL license, though
<tonyyarusso> Madpilot: 'k.  I'm hoping to cover all 100 or so the FSF, OSI, and CC mention.
<Madpilot> very ambitious!
<tonyyarusso> Yep - expect it to take me a long, long time :S
<Madpilot> I'm trying to gin up a script to scrape Transport Canada pages to create PDFs of the Aviation Regulations, actually... TC's site is a mess, though...
<mdke> Laser_away: can you give me details of what docs should be included in the topics for edubuntu and where in the list they should appear?
<CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: philbull feisty * r3958 /ubuntu/internet/C/internet.xml: Document ubuntu-restricted-extras (new strings)
<CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: philbull * r3959 ubuntu/internet/C/internet.xml: Document ubuntu-restricted-extras package
<Ubugtu> New bug: #91355 in ubuntu-docs (main) "Universe and Multiverse enabled by default" [Medium,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/91355
<CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: philbull * r3960 ubuntu/musicvideophotos/C/musicvideophotos.xml: Add section statuses, fix typo
<CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: philbull * r3961 ubuntu/ (12 files in 5 dirs): Add section statuses where there arent any
<Admiral_Chicago> nixternal: does this affect us? https://beta.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-docs/+bug/91355
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 91355 in ubuntu-docs "Universe and Multiverse enabled by default" [Medium,Unconfirmed] 
<Admiral_Chicago> bbl
<dsas> an interesting post on product documentation: http://headrush.typepad.com/creating_passionate_users/2007/02/too_many_compan.html
<dsas> http://headrush.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/howwetreatcustomersdocumena.jpg
<mdke> Admiral_Chicago: no I believe kubuntu has that fixed
* mdke arghs at thread breaking on the mailing list
* dsas wonders how some people use email so bad
<mdke> I've written to him off list to try and improve things
<mdke> looks like he's keen to contribute so let's hope we can sort that out!
<nixternal> mornin'
<nixternal> Admiral_Chicago: no that doesn't affect us. thanks to Jonathan Jesse :)
<nixternal> mdke: I am affraid to ask, but who is keen to tribute? /me hopes you don't say it
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-doc.log
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-doc.log
<CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: nixternal feisty * r3962 /kubuntu/khelpdesktop/kubuntu/aboutkubuntu.desktop: removing unused .desktop file
<CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: nixternal feisty * r3963 /kubuntu/ (17 files in 17 dirs): no strings edited - replaced status review with completed to remove draft image from docs
<CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: nixternal feisty * r3964 /kubuntu/get-pot.sh: copied and converted get-pot.sh for Kubuntu docs
<CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: nixternal feisty * r3965 /kubuntu/ (19 files in 19 dirs): Kubuntu docs complete - translation ready
<nixternal> what is the trick to get the DRAFT removed? I made all docs status="complete" yet the DRAFT is still showing up
<nixternal> nevermind, kubuntu-chunk.xsl has draft.mode set to yes instead of either no or maybe
<CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: nixternal feisty * r3966 /kubuntu/libs/kubuntu-chunk.xsl: setting draft.mode to no - removes DRAFT from docs
<CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: nixternal * r3967 kubuntu/ (36 files in 36 dirs): bringing over changes from feisty
#ubuntu-doc 2008-03-04
<CarlFK> http://www.ubuntu.com/community/participate  "they move on to become Specs, "  https://www-admin.ubuntu.com/aunchpad.net/ubuntu/+specs
<CarlFK> "Authorization Required "
<kgoetz> hehe. oops.
<CarlFK> should I file a bug report?
<kgoetz> yeah
<CarlFK> what package?
<kgoetz> i think theres an ubuntu-doc package
<CarlFK> thanks
<mdke> CarlFK: it's the ubuntu-website product
<CarlFK> "ubuntu-website" does not exist in Ubuntu. Please choose a different package. If you're unsure, please select "I don't know"
<sommer> hey all, is there a macro, or whatever, that will insert the latest kernel version?  similar to &distro-rev...
<mdke> CarlFK: it's not an Ubuntu package (because the website isn't in the Ubuntu distro), it's a project in itself
<mdke> sommer: check in global.ent
<CarlFK> mdke: ah. got it.  thanks
<sommer> mdke: linux-kernel-version... perfect!
#ubuntu-doc 2008-03-05
<j1mc> hi all... anyone around?  i noticed on the draft documentation site that my ulinks ending in .xml for xubuntu documentation weren't linking correctly.  should i have the links end in .html, or have no file extension at all?
<kgoetz> isnt there a url fixing script in the bzr repo somewher?
 * j1mc goes to look
 * kgoetz thought he saw one
<j1mc> i see a validation script, and a yelptest script in the root dir.
<j1mc> ... still looking
 * kgoetz searches
<j1mc> i see index-html-chunk-cust.xsl... that doesn't specify anything about file extension changes, though.
<j1mc> besides, i think that maybe the url fixing script might convert the ghelp links to urls.  ??
<j1mc> and i'm not talking about ghelp links.
<j1mc> if we can't find it shortly, i'll send a note to the doc list.
 * kgoetz grumbles. i cant find it :|
<j1mc> :(
<j1mc> thanks for checking
<mdke> morning all
<ubotu> New bug: #198012 in ubuntu-docs (main) "Latest update removes "Storage" and "Multimedia" tabs from "Removable drives and Media"" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/198012
<ubotu> New bug: #192049 in gnome-volume-manager (main) "[Hardy] VM ignores settings in System/Preferences/Removable Media (dup-of: 198012)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/192049
<sommer> mdke: any issue if I update the linux-kernel-version in libs/global.ent ?
<mdke> sommer: no, as long as its accurate - you should sync changes across all hardy branches
<sommer> mdke: gotcha, I don't have them all checked out though :\
<mdke> sommer: i'll do it, np
<sommer> cool, thanks man
<mdke> sommer: so do you think we are clear to remove the duplicate "server" directory?
<sommer> mdke: sure, all updates I've done are in serverguide/C
<sommer> since you proposed the idea anyway :)
<mdke> the only thing is that people searching in the desktop help center for help on adding applications and package management might get duplicate results; one in add-applications and the other in serverguide
<sommer> true, should the serverguide be changed some how to make it distinct?
<mdke> not really, because the standalone version needs that stuff
<mdke> i'm going to think about it a bit more and see if there is any way to do things a bit more cleanly
<sommer> I've also been mulling over the idea of creating a serverguide contribution howto page in the wiki... just haven't gotten around to doing it yet
<mdke> sounds good
#ubuntu-doc 2008-03-06
<ccprog> Just a question: is there really aneed for that google-analytics script on the wiki pages?
<ccprog> For the last hour pages are not shown unless I deactivate JS - only because that script cannot be loaded.
<frank_> ccprog: it works for me. I don't know what the google-analytics script is for
<ccprog> just came back for me too.
<ccprog> annoying non the less.
#ubuntu-doc 2008-03-07
<mdke> morning all
<kgoetz> ello
<ubotu> New bug: #199538 in ubuntu-doc "E:O pacote secondlife-install precisa ser reinstalado, mas nÃ£o foi possÃ­vel encontrar um arquivo para o mesmo." [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/199538
<mdke> sommer: do you know anything about a bzr section being removed from vcs.xml? seems there used to be one but it isn't there any more
<mdke> bhuvan: ^^
<sommer> mdke: I'm not sure why it's not there
<sommer> I read through the ml archive some time ago and remember seeing some emails regarding it
<mdke> sommer: that's good enough for me, I'll put it back :)
<sommer> cool, I'll check over it before hardy... hopefully
<mdke> I'll ask the bzr guys to do so too
<sommer> I know it wasn't there during the gutsy cycle, because I submitted a patch and the only sections were svn and cvs
<sommer> heh... another server team member asked about a bzr section a while back as well
<mdke> cool, I just wanted to check that it didn't happen on purpose
<sommer> if it did it was before my time :-)
<sommer> thanks mdke
<mdke> ok, done
#ubuntu-doc 2008-03-08
<bhuvan> mdke, sommer: i've no clue when bzr section was removed from vcs.xml
<bhuvan> i'm sure we should put it back
<bhuvan> i'm checking when it got removed and why. based on log message, i'm unable to derive at conclusion; anyway i'll find out and keep you updated
<bhuvan> mdke, sommer: looks like it was accidentally removed in r4349 by me. i originally added in r4113 under serverguide. in r4349 i sync'ed it with server version, by then we lost the original bzr related changes. i'm sorry about that
<bhuvan> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-doc-commits/2007-September/003855.html
<bhuvan> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-doc-commits/2007-April/003621.html
<mdke> bhuvan: no worries, it's added again now :)
<mdke> bhuvan: thanks for investigating
<posingaspopular> hey j1mc, i just got your email
<j1mc> posingaspopular: cool.  i just joined #ubuntu-chicago to talk about it if you want.
<posingaspopular> :P
<j1mc> hi all, i appear to have goofed up some internal linking with my ulinks.  please see the "add applications" link at the bottom of this page: http://doc.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/music-video-photos.html
<j1mc> i like to an xml file, which is the actual doc file, but it looks like i should be linking to an html file.  also, it looks like i've gone a little too far down on the path tree...
<j1mc> s/i like/i link
<mdke> j1mc: that's due to the issues we discussed previously
<j1mc> so the sed changes would fix things?
<mdke> j1mc: yes, i think so. The path tree issue is probably because the html path doesn't include the "C" directory
<j1mc> good point.  thanks.
#ubuntu-doc 2008-03-09
<Kamping_Kaiser> hi all, having trouble finding it in the wiki so asking here: hwo do i use the entities defined in /libs/global.ent? i want to use distro-versoin and distro-rev
<Kamping_Kaiser> *distro-version
<Kamping_Kaiser> hm. &string by the look of a grep through the docs
<Kamping_Kaiser> how do you want "open source" capitalised? Open Source, Open source, or open source ?
<mdke> Kamping_Kaiser: &distro-rev;
<Kamping_Kaiser> mdke, thanks
<Kamping_Kaiser> mdke, any preference for Open source?
<mdke> Kamping_Kaiser: I suppose open source should be in small letters, although I don't know for sure
<mdke> it's not a proper noun afaik
<Kamping_Kaiser> mm ok. i'll 'fix' it to small
<mdke> does it already appear in capitals?
<mdke> maybe we should discuss it on the ML
<Kamping_Kaiser> parts of the edubuntu docs use all 3 i asked about, in different places
<Kamping_Kaiser> i was hoping there was something i could simply 'correct' to.
<mdke> hmm
<mdke> I think small letters is correct, myself
<mdke> about-ubuntu has both...
<mdke> opensource.org seems to use small letters when not referring to a name of something
<kgoetz>  grep -R "[O,o]pen [S,s]ource" * |wc -l
<kgoetz> 22
<kgoetz> grep -R "[O,o]pen [S,s]ource" ../* |wc -l
<kgoetz> 1603
<Kamping_Kaiser> fwiw
<mdke> I don't know how useful that is, it may encompass quite a lot of revision history
<Kamping_Kaiser> the 22 is accurate, i looked at them. the ../* will probably include history though
<Kamping_Kaiser> hm. it doesnt seem to include history.
 * mdke shrugs, even opensource.org isn't consistent
<mdke> let's not worry about it
<Kamping_Kaiser> ok.
<Kamping_Kaiser> ping anyone who works on edubuntus doco?
<Kamping_Kaiser> i have a question about the networking section in introduction.xml - i find it ... wrong.
<ubotu> New bug: #200195 in ubuntu-doc "WifiDocs/Device/DWA-111 install problem" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/200195
#ubuntu-doc 2009-03-02
<AtomicSpark> If I had a suggestion on a change in the official documentation, where would I direct that? Somewhere on launchpad? Also, should I suggest this for the current release or the "wip" doc section?
<mdke> AtomicSpark: if it's a simple suggestion, normally a bug report would be the best way. If a large one that merits discussion, then maybe on the mailing list
<mdke> AtomicSpark: we'll only fix it in the current release if it is a serious issue, otherwise we will tend to fix it in the development release
<AtomicSpark> mdke: It would be a non-serious issue.
<AtomicSpark> So here? https://bugs.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-doc
<AtomicSpark> !wastrel
<ubot4> Factoid 'wastrel' not found
<AtomicSpark> :(
 * AtomicSpark mubbles wrong channel
<mdke> AtomicSpark: if you could file it here, it would be appreciated: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-docs
<AtomicSpark> Is there actually a package that installs all the documentation?
<AtomicSpark> So there is. Interesting. I'll bookmark the page.
<mdke> AtomicSpark: not quite all, but most. Other documents exist in other packages
<AtomicSpark> mdke: Yeah I figured out that it was the gnome help thing the whole time. One of those "well, this makes sense" moments.
<mdke> :)
<mdke> AtomicSpark: gnome help is in the gnome-user-docs package, so you can also file bugs there if you have a suggestion on one of those documents
<AtomicSpark> Well I was just seeing if they were offline. I normally just visit help.ubuntu.com. But yeah, I found them.
<DougieRichardson> Anyone fancy cheering for me on ubuntu-meeting  - going for membership?
<charlie-tca> #ubuntu-meeting
<DougieRichardson>  /msg nickserv info DougieRichardson
<DougieRichardson>  /msg nickserv info DougieRichardson
<DougieRichardson> s
<charlie-tca> congratulations, DougieRichardson
<DougieRichardson> charlie-tca: thanks!
#ubuntu-doc 2009-03-03
<nixternal> http://www.xmlmind.com/xmleditor/persoedition.html
<nixternal> that is the about the closes, and the best, wysiwyg editor for docbook
<nixternal> impressive actually...though it can't beat my vim :p
<DougieRichardson> Evening all - when is string freeze?
<sommer> DougieRichardson: march 26: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JauntyReleaseSchedule
<DougieRichardson> Cheers, I knew it was in there somewhere but I've a sea of wiki pages open!
<sommer> heh, usually the release schedule gets indexed by google pretty fast... so I usually just search on jaunty, intrepid, etc release schedule
<DougieRichardson> I just tagged this bug - https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-docs/+bug/336629 am I missing something?
<ubot4> Launchpad bug 336629 in ubuntu-docs "Package names should be in small letters" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<DougieRichardson> Ah the bot speaks
#ubuntu-doc 2009-03-04
<j1mc> sommer: you around?
#ubuntu-doc 2009-03-05
<Toobaz1> Hello. I see that https://help.ubuntu.com/community/GnomeLaunchBox is a redirect to "Gnome-do" page. I personally don't like that (I daily use GnomeLaunchBox), but if it was a community choice, no problem. However, I see the redirect was made by the same user which created the "Gnome-do" page. Is this just propaganda? I ask because I don't know this guy, neither the wiki community, but I'd like to restore the previous v
#ubuntu-doc 2009-03-06
<DougieRichardson> Any of the Xubuntu guys on tonight?
<jpds> DougieRichardson: (un-related to your query) https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ooubuntu says that you need people who know about ubuntu packaging, anyway I can help?
<DougieRichardson> Sorry mate was watching telly - yes we need packagers
<DougieRichardson> I haven't as much time on this project as I'd like to have and at the moment those joining are not on the whole very technical.
<jpds> Hmm, why do you need packagers exactly?
<DougieRichardson> The OU has a lot of people who want to use OSS
<DougieRichardson> The most common reason for not staying is difficulty installing software.
<DougieRichardson> The OU provides Windows software and in most cases there are Linux versions available but the installation puts them off.
 * jpds => /msg
#ubuntu-doc 2009-03-07
<Rocket2DMn> Hey guys, https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RootSudo?action=diff&rev1=114&rev2=115
<Rocket2DMn> Do we want to allow explanations of how to enable the root account, root is disabled by default as part of Ubuntu's security model
<Flannel> Just ignoring it all together isn't really a healthy policy though.  The comment isn't accurate, though.  Since you can use recovery console/etc.
<Rocket2DMn> I am against having that info there.  On the forums we don't support enabling the root account for login
<Flannel> It's *never* necessary, and we also don't support enabling it in #ubuntu, but I'm not sure trying to censor that info is a good thing.
<Rocket2DMn> The thing is, it circumvents Ubuntu's security model
<Flannel> That particular person's reasons for adding it are entirely wrong, but that's not a valid reason for removing it/etc.
<Flannel> Yes, but educating the users (so they don't want to enable root) is better than just removing the command.
<Rocket2DMn> I think we should probably have this discussion on the mailing list, I'll send out an email
<Rocket2DMn> Perhaps a simple note on the page thta we dont support it is good enough
<Flannel> If someone hears (from their friends or whatever) that they should enable root, they'll google and figure out how.
<Rocket2DMn> that is true, but it doesnt mean we should be providing that info
<Flannel> You can put more than a simple note.  Give it an icon by it, etc.
<Rocket2DMn> thanks for the feedback Flannel , ill take it into account in my email
<Rocket2DMn> and you are free to respond :)
<Flannel> Of course, the same case could be made for arr emm arr eff.  Except that's malicious.  The difference is that this one is a security choice (albeit a rather poor one)  There's plenty of verbage around it explaining that its bad (although some sort of danger icon next to the command couldn't hurt)
<Flannel> Warning, not danger.
<Rocket2DMn> there is already explanation at the top of the page as to why we use sudo
<Flannel> And an explanation under that command as to why its not a good idea (and whats better)
<Rocket2DMn> "Using the single boot parameter (for example, to repair a broken system) doesn't help much if you intend to use the root option (labeled Drop to root shell prompt) from the Recovery menu, since that option requires entering the root password. (This however seems to have been fixed in the 8.10 release.)"
<Rocket2DMn> that is also not true, it only prompts for a password IF you have enabled the root account
#ubuntu-doc 2009-03-08
<j1mc> anyone have the url for the preview documentation html pages?  i just wanted to see the ubuntu pages.
#ubuntu-doc 2010-03-08
<nixternal> mdke: how can we get kubuntu-docs back on doc.ubuntu.com?
<nixternal> nevermind, it is already there...groovy
<nixternal> better question, how can we get the old docs removed?
#ubuntu-doc 2010-03-12
<mozicodo> Just getting started with helping out in docs and started by making some style fixes to a wiki page.  Any suggestions?  https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SecureApt
#ubuntu-doc 2010-03-13
<Rocket2DMn> good morning/afternoon mdke
<Rocket2DMn> what do we do about bug 525117
<ubot4> Launchpad bug 525117 in ubuntu-docs (Ubuntu) "Some parts that was removed in the docs, still seams present in the translation files. (affects: 1)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/525117
<Rocket2DMn> mdke, i think we should also get bug 195590 fixed for lucid
<ubot4> Launchpad bug 195590 in ubuntu-docs (Ubuntu) (and 2 other projects) "home page has blurry font" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/195590
<Rocket2DMn> hi jjesse , how are you
<jjesse> ok, behind on things but doing ok
<Rocket2DMn> cool
<Rocket2DMn> jjesse, do you think you will be able to fix bug 483153 before lucid string freeze?
<ubot4> Launchpad bug 483153 in ubuntu-docs (Ubuntu) "It's posible to have zero network network devices (affects: 1)" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/483153
#ubuntu-doc 2012-03-05
<m4n1sh> bhuvan-a1k: ping
<jbicha> m4n1sh: your email worked this time :)
<m4n1sh> jbicha: I subscribed in digest mode
#ubuntu-doc 2012-03-06
<littlegirl> Hey there, are you all in charge of the https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/ContactUs page?
<littlegirl> Is this the correct channel to talk about the contents of the https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/ContactUs page being outdated?
<jbicha> littlegirl: what do you need?
<littlegirl> jbicha: I'm attempting to provide feedback on the Kubuntu 12.04 beta CD after testing it, and the channel the link I offered recommends doesn't exist, so I checked when the page was last updated and it's been over 3 years.
<jbicha> #kubuntu-devel is probably a good choice
<littlegirl> jbicha: Thanks. I already posted a message there and in #kubuntu as well. You are the only person who has replied. (:
#ubuntu-doc 2012-03-09
<mdeslaur> could someone please moderate my email to the ubuntu-doc list^
<mdeslaur> I would like to get a UIFe for bug 938076
<ubot2`> Launchpad bug 938076 in gsettings-desktop-schemas "[UIFe]Auto-lock on suspend is still needed when encrypting file system" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/938076
<bkerensa> jbicha: Do you think we need to make the addition to our documentation for Bug #926493
<ubot2`> Launchpad bug 926493 in ubiquity "[UIFe] The installer still says your picture will be used on the login screen" [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/926493
<jbicha> bkerensa: documenting Unity is a higher priority, but if somebody wants to document the installer, it'd be nice too
<bkerensa> jbicha: Well I can put it on my trello to-do list and see if I can get it done before freeze :) but no promises
<bkerensa> :D
<jbicha> it's low priority, how many people are going to even know that there's help available during the install?
<jbicha> I need to put a blog post out today asking for documentation contributors, should have done it sooner really
<jbicha> the docs team is always under-manned :(
#ubuntu-doc 2013-03-06
<nibalizer> i'm trying to push some stuff to launchpad, specifically some updates to the server guide
<nibalizer> bzr push appears to use ssh but just hangs forever, whats goin gon?
#ubuntu-doc 2013-03-07
<user99999> hello
<user99999> how to change mouse dpi?
<jbicha> !support
<ubot2`> The official ubuntu support channel is #ubuntu. Also see http://ubuntu.com/support and http://ubuntuforums.org and http://askubuntu.com
<user99999> #ubuntu-hu #ubuntu not help ... :S
#ubuntu-doc 2014-03-03
<benonsoftware> I only popped in for a quick question as I had to head off to school :)
<belkinsa> knome, thanks for your work with NewDocs.
<dsmythies> knome: Are you around?
<knome> i am
<dsmythies> knome: You are listed as a major contributor for https://launchpad.net/ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu
<dsmythies> So, I was wondering if you might have knowledge of when the salemander graphic will be changed to a Himalayan Tahr graphic?
<dsmythies> Reference: http://s1.dylanmccall.com/ubiquity-slideshow/ubuntu/slides/welcome.html
<dsmythies> Also, do you know who does the graphic?
<dsmythies> I am asking because nobody knows how to update the graphic on the DeskTop help, which is still a Quantal, and is a JPG and not a graphic.
<dsmythies> I was getting help from pleia2 on this, but she gets no response to inquiries.
<dsmythies> My idea is to steal it from the slideshow, once it gets updated.
<dsmythies> My frusration is that these type if easy things should be doable at the start of a cycle instead of the end of a cycle.
<knome> i can get a look and i'm sure it's relatively easy to change the graphic
<knome> however, i don't know who's drawn it before, or who will do it now
<knome> and thus i don't know the "when" either...
<dsmythies> Yes, it is easy to change, I just don't have the "offical" what to change it with. O.K. I'll just keep watching for the change to the slideshow.
<knome> yeah, i guess that's the best thing to do
#ubuntu-doc 2014-03-04
<ahoneybun> knome, http://imgur.com/2mRedtA
<knome> ahoneybun_, so... do you want me to do something for that?
<dsmythies> ahoneybun_: Where did you get that graphic of the Tahr?
<dsmythies> ahoneybun_: Desktop help still uses a Quetzal graphic. I have been looking for the offical Tahr graphic to use.
<ahoneybun_> dsmythies, I made it
<dsmythies> ahoneybun_: Oh. Can I use it, perhaps only temporarily?
<ahoneybun_> dsmythies, sure let me set the image without a background you can use it perament if you wish :)
<ahoneybun_> http://imgur.com/G1caQ9w
<dsmythies> ahoneybun_: Thanks.
#ubuntu-doc 2014-03-07
<dsmythies> godbyk: Are you around?
<godbyk> dsmythies: Yep!
<dsmythies> godbyk: Begin blurb... (wait until the "End blurb")
<dsmythies> As you know, My 14.04 computers have been ahving grief since about janaury 15th, and Unity since February 17th, but now Unity is O.K. again. GNOME still not, but I am using a GNOME VM of 13.10.
<dsmythies> O.K. so, I was stuck on something in mid Jan, and not that I am able to continue stuck again...
<dsmythies> The issue is "sharing" and trying to reslove dead end links in docs and links to files that are not there.
<dsmythies> I go back and forth between GNOME and Unity to try to understand what is going on, or supposed to be going on.
<dsmythies> Both GNOME and Unity mention to open "settings" and then open "sharing". However "sharing" doesn't exsist in "System Settings" in either Unity or GNOME.
<dsmythies> O.K> so maybe that is because I do not have any pakcage installed that uses sharing, nor a Bluetooth device, and so maybe then the sharing option doesn't appear.
<dsmythies> So I unstalled rygel on my 13.10 GNOME and re-booted and such, and still no "sharing" shows in "system settings".
<godbyk> Hmm.. It may be that that capplet no longer exists then?
<dsmythies> I do not understand. Do you?
<godbyk> Let me boot up my 14.04 VM and take a look.
<dsmythies> Exaclty, so I searched and searched and didn't find any other info.
<dsmythies> Oh... "End blurb"
<godbyk> Which page are you looking at?
<dsmythies> I am in GNOME right now, but on "share youe music and photos and videos" I thinkk there is similar in unity.
<godbyk> Also, I don't see a 'Sharing' option in the system settings for Ubuntu 13.10, either.
<dsmythies> yes, but many things (O.K> about 3) refer it it.
<dsmythies> I have seen other times and option or whatever missing, becuase I didn't have it, like the Bluetooth icon for example. That is why I installed rygel, as a test.
<godbyk> Hmm.. I'm having trouble finding the page you're referring to.
<dsmythies> ... let me boot unity... wait
<godbyk> I have a Bluetooth icon on my 13.10 installation. (I have a cheap Bluetooth dongle on my desktop and it's built in to my laptop.)
<dsmythies> Oh, that could be very helpful...
<godbyk> I'm happy to help test Bluetooth-related instructions if I can.
<dsmythies> in unity help type" sharing"
<dsmythies> Oh, it isn't the same as GNOME
<dsmythies> Grrrr.... my untiy isn't working again...
<godbyk> You make me scared to install updates on my 14.04 installation. :)
<dsmythies> from the results of "sharing" search select "connect your computer to a bluetooth"
<dsmythies> then click on "sharing-bluetooth" at the lewer part of the page.
<dsmythies> Og crap, that si a different problem.
<godbyk> heh.. too many pages! :)
<dsmythies> I usually can never figure out how to nagegate to a spot, so I just use "files" and then open with help on the file I want.
<godbyk> That works, too.
<godbyk> I'm just trying to find the instructions you were talking about.
<dsmythies> The bluetooth file that is missing is the one I was trying to figure out, so I booted GNOME to tyr to know, but there is no "sharing", so GNOME doc doesn't even seem to right.
<dsmythies> Oh, I opened that page from GNOME docs becuase it isn't in unity docs yet.
<godbyk> Ah, okay.
<godbyk> Which version of GNOME docs are you referencing?
<dsmythies> Whatever is there on the computer. Wait a sec, I'll give a reference.
<dsmythies> /usr/share/help/C/gnome-help/sharing-bluetooth.page
<godbyk> Okay, my Bluetooth capplet doesn't have a sharing option in either 13.10 or 14.04.
<godbyk> I need to update my 14.04, though.
<dsmythies> I was trying to figure it all out, but no computer in my house has bluetooth
<dsmythies> So Itried photo etc sharing under a GNOME boot, and it still didn't make sense (using GNOME help on a GNOME boot)
<godbyk> I'm installing 14.04 updates now.
<godbyk> Hopefully that'll fix the issue I'm having with the window manager crashing.
<godbyk> brb
<dsmythies> Yes, the newset updates will (should) fix it.
<dsmythies> compiz had crashitice for 2 weeks. Dorve me bizzerk.
<godbyk> back
<dsmythies> Kevin, Quie by accident, I found what I was looing for, just now.
<godbyk> dsmythies: Ah, excellent!
<godbyk> My updates are still installing.
<godbyk> It was waiting on confirmation from me and I hadn't noticed.
<dsmythies> in dash type "sharing" and open personal file sharing preferences. The bluetooth options are in there.
<godbyk> Ah!
<godbyk> Apparently I need to install a couple other packages...
<godbyk> At the top of that dialog, it says, 'This feature cannot be enabled because the required packages are not installed on your system.'
<dsmythies> I still do not understand GNOME boot mode, but we already know they suffer with keeping up to date as we do.
<dsmythies> It's O.K. since now I found that file. I can edit sharing-bluetooth.page for untiy (I think).
<godbyk> Also interesting: If you click the Help button in that dialog, you'll get application-specific help (outside of Ubuntu docs).
<dsmythies> godbyk: I seem to have dragged you around on a bit of a wild goose chase
<dsmythies> hmmm.... built in help stuff looks pretty good. Why do we bother? Why not just say "see built in stuff"?
<godbyk> dsmythies: Can we link to it from our docs?
<dsmythies> I don't know. It seems to be written for GNOME, actually.
<godbyk> Hrm...
<godbyk> I wonder how much of the app-specific docs are also GNOME Shellâspecific, too.
<dsmythies> I'll boot GNOME again and see if that stuff is there.
<dsmythies> O.K. Under GNOME it is the same, but there is no "Personal preferences" under "system" The help file seesm to be the same.
<dsmythies> Anyway, I think I know how to proceed. (I'll get stuck again in 23 minutes probably.) Everything seems to take 20 times longer than I ever imagine going into it.
<godbyk> That seems pretty typical of my work, too. :)
<dsmythies> Thanks for helping
<godbyk> No problem!
<dsmythies> shaunm: Are you around?
<dsmythies> shaunm: My question was about bug 1270314 , but I think I have figured it out.
<ubot2`> Launchpad bug 1270314 in Ubuntu Documentation "no way to navigate to some pages" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1270314
<shaunm> dsmythies: orphans only looks at topic/guide links, which is intended to be the primary navigational structure. so it's entirely possible it reports things as orphans that you can click your way to
<shaunm> but the things as orphans are pages where you can't click your way back up using either the link trails or the "More Information" links at the bottom
<dsmythies> shaunm: I realize that now, but was pretty confused last night. Thanks.
#ubuntu-doc 2014-03-08
<godbyk> dsmythies: ping
<dsmythies> godbyk: I'm here now
<dsmythies> godbyk: But only for a few minutes. Otherwise I should be around for a few hours in a few hours.
<godbyk> dsmythies: Ah, I think I figured it out.
<godbyk> The check_validation.sh script requires a newer version of yelp-check than what I have installed in 13.10.
<godbyk> I'm updating the shell script to do some checks on what the yelp-check command supports. Then we can use it anywhere.
<godbyk> I'm also adding color output just for kicks.
<dsmythies> godbyk: Oh, crap, did I mess it up again?
<godbyk> dsmythies: No, it was just that the yelp-check command in Ubuntu 13.10 doesn't have the ids command yet.
<godbyk> dsmythies: Quick question for ya, though, related to bash.. Can I generate an environment variable name by nesting another environment variable value in it?
<godbyk> I want to have something like YELP_CHECK_SUPPORTS_x where x is stored in another environment variable.
<dsmythies> godbyk: I don't know. I am not an environment variables whiz.
<godbyk> dsmythies: I may have found a solution on StackOverflow. I'll give it a shot.
<godbyk> When I'm finished with this script, I'll email it to you to test it before I commit it.
<godbyk> I want to make sure I don't blow everything up. :-)
<dsmythies> godbyk: I should have checked my validation scripts changes on older machine. I think Gunnar and I agreed it should not require the newest yelp stuff, because it doesn't look as if it will make it in time.
<godbyk> Well, with my updates, the script should detect that the older yelp-check doesn't support a command and just silently skip that check.
<dsmythies> Cool.
<godbyk> Then we can easily add new commands as they come about in the future and be backward-compatible.
<dsmythies> That would be awesome.
<godbyk> dsmythies: Okay, I've got it working, I think.
<godbyk> I'll send you this script so you can test it out.
<godbyk> I'm going to do a bit of refactoring on it and work to speed things up a bit, too.
<dsmythies> It'll be a few hours until I can get to it.
<godbyk> dsmythies: No worries.
<godbyk> dsmythies: There's no rush. I've got plenty of other things to work on, too. :)
#ubuntu-doc 2014-03-09
<BlinkinCat> Greetings all!
#ubuntu-doc 2015-03-02
<wxl> folks can someone help me rename a page. it keeps telling me the page already exists. i've tried creating the page and deleting it to no avail.
<wxl> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/Bugs1 â https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/Bugs
<knome> wxl, that happens when the page you try to copy to has previously existed; copy the page content over manually and delete the Bugs1 page
<wxl> knome: bah, k
<sepi_> Hi, anyone care to correct a configuration error on https://help.ubuntu.com/community/OpenLDAPServer#Kerberos_AuthenticationÂ ?
<sepi_> The configuration text "#The FQDN of the Kerberos KDC. olcSaslHost: kerberos.example.com" should be "The FQDN of the LDAP server. olcSaslHost: ldap.example.com"
<sepi_> I do not have account for fixing this myself and I do not care to obtain one just now.
<sepi_> thanks!
#ubuntu-doc 2015-03-03
<pmatulis> sorry for not being present at the meeting.  i have another engagement every tuesday at the same time and i failed to set a reminder so i could at least sit idle
#ubuntu-doc 2016-03-07
<wxl> supposedly edit access help.u.c. is fixed for ubuntu-etherpad members
<wxl> additionally, it looks like wiki.u.c. is behaving correctly for all users now
<wxl> so log out and log back in and go check it out
<wxl> if you need an ubuntu-etherpad membership ping me
<wxl> indirect memberships should work fine
<wxl> if you have problems, of course #canonical-sysadmin is the place
<pleia2> someone should fix up https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WikiGuide/Registration as well
<pleia2> these were for back when SSO didn't give you a nickname at all, I'm not sure what adjustments this needs, definitely mentioning the etherpad group though
<knome> basically you need a launchpad account now
<knome> so you must link your ubuntu SSO with LP anyway...
 * pleia2 nods
<pleia2> yeah, so it will be a variation of what we have documented
<knome> so much for creating usernames for all sso accounts
<pleia2> heh, right x_x
<pleia2> what a long, winding road we have traveled
<knome> with the beatles
<pleia2> flesh-eating ones
<knome> hahah
<pleia2> :D
#ubuntu-doc 2016-03-08
<qwebirc916920> what I mean is that it just shows the buttons that provide you access to the various options in the app top panel
#ubuntu-doc 2016-03-10
<mhall119> hello docs team, it looks like both wiki.ubuntu.com and help.ubuntu.com/community/ are editable by members of ~ubuntu-etherpad now, is there anything else that needs to be fixed in the short-term that I can follow up with?
<pmatulis> mhall119: why is it confined to that group? i thought we wanted to make it public again?
<knome> pmatulis, as long as LP allows spammers to join, there's no way we can have a public wiki with no spam
<pmatulis> alright. why aren't we implementing a captcha?
<knome> a captcha doesn't stop mechanical turk kind of spam
<knome> eg. real people who spam
<pmatulis> well how do we protect from real people? what is a wiki that does not allow real people?
<knome> a moderated group. it's relatively easy to recognize most of the mechanical turk accounts
<knome> eg. if your username is lajktgoaeifaskdjfaljkgr, you're likely not a real contributor
<pmatulis> how does a good person know to join ~ubuntu-etherpad ?
<knome> we tell them to join the team.
<pmatulis> but they need to first complain about immutable pages. how do they know the way?
<knome> we need to make sure the information is passed.
<pmatulis> the only way i can think of is putting a header on every wiki page - "If you want to edit or create a new page then..."
<knome> that can be done
<pmatulis> ok, thanks for the explanation knome
<knome> np
<knome> we all acknowledge this isn't the ideal situation, but...
<pleia2> the footer of every page includes the https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WikiGuide link, it can be added there
<pleia2> oh, it already is :)
<pleia2> looks like wxl took care of it already
<pleia2> so it's not obvious, but that's the best we can do to inform people I think
<pmatulis> pleia2: shouldn't it be the header? will people descend to that level to figure out what's going on?
<pleia2> it's in the header too
<pleia2> "Wiki Guide"
<pmatulis> hm?
<pleia2> on https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ there's a link to "Wiki Guide"
<pleia2> you do have to be logged in
<pleia2> but people would be logged in when they see Immutable too
<pmatulis> pleia2: i see it, looking at that page
<pleia2> so it's linked twice on every single page
<pleia2> hopefully people find it
<pmatulis> ok, i see the sentence
<pmatulis> alright, maybe an embolded sentence at the top might be better but good enough
<knome> we could probably even change the page you see when you click the immutable page link
#ubuntu-doc 2017-03-07
<padraic> I had thought there was supposed to be a monthly meeting but I guess I should have noticed the last date mentioned in the Topic above.
#ubuntu-doc 2017-03-12
<tammy__> Are there any docs related to servers to edit
#ubuntu-doc 2018-03-06
<trosh> Hello, how come the Nagios3 page on the community wiki is set to Immutable? I have some info Iâd like to add
<trosh> ok, found the WikiGuide page
