#ubuntu-desktop 2008-11-24
<maco> to manipulate an xml file with libxml2, should i use the parser and make it into a tree, or should i use xmlreader, regular expressions, and xml writer...or what?
<awalton__> maco, "what do you intend to do with the data" is usually the best first question
<maco> awalton__: i want to make gnome-panel able to use a gradient defined by an xml file as the background.  the properties thing for gnome-panel should be able to change the colors, size, and orientation of the image by modifying the svg directly.
<maco> because it is a pain in the rear to have to gimp up new gradients every time i change theme
<awalton__> ah, so you're writing an xml document with a simple svg gradient.
<maco> yeah
<awalton__> in that case you can probably get away with regular expressions
<maco> i made a sort of barebones svg for it
<maco> hehe thats what i was going to do
<awalton__> I don't blame you
<maco> and then the other cs majors i talked to at school were saying that was a bit of a hack for modifying xml
<awalton__> yeah, it is a hack, but it works
<awalton__> especially for something as simple as that.. make the fields something easy to catch like %GRADIENT_FIELD% and tada.
<maco> they were doing this: O_o when i said i spent 2 hours that morning playing with regular expressions...
<awalton__> meanwhile you're writing about 10 lines instead of the 200 you'd probably need to muck with the xml properly
<maco> riiiight ok then
<awalton__> trust me, it gets nasty very fast..
<maco> uh, library i should look at for doing regex in C? i dont suppose calling sed from within gnome-panel would be "normal"
<awalton__> glib has a regex library compatible with perl's
<maco> yeah, ive messed with xml using python before.  it makes for oddly long scripts
<awalton__> (might be the same one actually, now that I think about it)
<maco> ok thanks
<awalton__> glib also has a simple xml interface, but I still wouldn't recommend it for something as simple as that
<maco> awalton__: do you think it would make sense to always have it start from a "fresh" .svg file instead of modifying the existing one in case the user A) deletes it accidentally B) breaks the xml-ness?
<awalton__> probably easier to make it as needed
<maco> you mean just write out a file for it each time, rather than modifying an old-and-maybe-b0rked one?
<awalton__> yeah
<maco> mmk
<awalton__> it's not like an xml file encoding a gradient is going to be huge, it'd be fine to embed it in the program as a static string
<maco> it's about 30 lines, if you put newlines after each property
<awalton__> which is probably far south of a kilobyte...
<maco> 718k
<awalton__> for 30 lines?
<maco> er, not k
<maco> ah, ls -lh is confusing
<awalton__> hah, that's better then
<maco> 718 char, so 718 bytes, i guess
<awalton__> my point is that amount of memory is more than readily available and won't change load times, etc.
<maco> ok
<seb128> fta, fta2: hi, I'm looking to your cairo update, there is no need to list the maintainer changes in the changelog, that's systematic for the ubuntu versions, could you quickly open a bug and attach the debdiff for the update using a non ppa version and describing what the lcdfilter do?
<fta2> seb128, bug 301691
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 301691 in cairo "Please sponsor cairo 1.8.4" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/301691
<seb128> fta2: thanks!
<tedg> pitti: ping
<pitti> tedg: pong
<tedg> pitti: The UDS desktop track is looking really full.  Is it worth writing up new things or is it packed?
<tedg> I really wanted a GDM session and perhaps a discussion on DevKit/DevKit-power.
<pitti> tedg: ah, I already told Scott, I'm happy to move the "fix packages for translation/rosetta import" double session to a spare room
<pitti> tedg: I freed the Monday 11:00 double session
<tedg> pitti: Cool, thank you.
<pitti> tedg: ah, scratch that; it's now wednesday 11:00
<pitti> tedg: the online services auth had a people conflict, so I moved that to MOnday
<tedg> I need to create blueprint and nominate them for Jaunty, right?
<pitti> tedg: can you see the preiliminary schedule on http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-jaunty/desktop/ ?
<pitti> tedg: for uds-jaunty, yes
<dobey> hmm
<pitti> tedg: for gdm probably a blueprint, yes
<pitti> tedg: for DK, it might alternatively become a roundtable, depending on whether it's just discussion, or something to actually implement in jaunty
<tedg> pitti: Cool, I was looking day-by-day, the track view is much better :)
<tedg> Well, hughsie is now planning on having GPM 2.24 be HAL and GPM 2.26 be DKP.
<tedg> So I'm not sure if there is discussion about what we want to do with GPM.
<tedg> A roundtable would probably be fine.
<pitti> tedg: if that's determined by upstream, we won't have much choice anyway
<tedg> pitti: Well we have the choice to stay with 2.24 for Jaunty.
<pitti> tedg: unless 2.26 brings new API which other GNOME parts depend on, perhaps
<tedg> pitti: Well hughsie in his mail specifically mention that some distros may want to use 2.24 -- so I don't think that's in his plan.
<tedg> Of course, he doesn't control everyone else :)
<pitti> tedg: oh, good to know
<pitti> tedg: TBH, for jaunty I welcome everything which avoids large structural changes, since we want to put as much effort as possible into bug fixing
<pitti> another reason is that deferring it would mean that more stuff would use DK in GNOME 2.28 (hopefully)
<tedg> Yeah, none the less, I think we should spend sometime going over the pros and cons at UDS.  I don't care if it's a roundtable or a session.
<tedg> pitti: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/gdm-upgrade
<tedg> pitti: Should I make a GPM/DevKit-power one?
<pitti> tedg: can't hurt, please do
#ubuntu-desktop 2008-11-25
<maco> on the TODO page, what's green and what's orange?
<Hobbsee> green == done, orange == in progress, maybe?  or orange == todo?
<maco> ok
<maco> and is that page for packaging updates?
<maco> its not quite self-explanatory, i guess
<Hobbsee> i'm not sure
<Hobbsee> i'd guess so, from last time is aw it
<seb128> pochu: hi
<pochu> hey seb128 :)
<seb128> pochu: hello
<pochu> how are you?
<seb128> pochu: any reason you are adding binaries to vinagre?
<seb128> pochu: good, thank you, how are you?
<pochu> seb128: fine, thanks :) busy as usual with uni though ;)
<pochu> seb128: yeah, vinagre .deb is now 2MB+, which in Debian means 20MB+
<pochu> for all archs
<pochu> and since almost all of it is the help documentation, I've split it
<seb128> hum, k, I really dislike this oversplitting in debian
<pochu> I'd prefer not to do it, but it's going from more than 20MB in the mirrors to just a few...
<seb128> it adds entries to the apt indexes, makes those slower to download, the packages list less nice to browse, create bugs, etc
<seb128> disk space is cheap nowadays ;-)
<seb128> you should stop adding -dbg variants everywhere if you care about mirror use
<pochu> hmm
<seb128> really, that's not a coherent way to do things
<pochu> I guess if I had to choose between having dbg packages and -common packages, and having none of them, I'd choose the former...
<pochu> until Debian has dbgsym packages or something like that
<seb128> what about working on having -dbgsym in debian rather than adding -dbg everywhere
<seb128> that would not polute the apt index, not use mirror space, etc
<pochu> that would be nice, yeah
<seb128> in one side nobody cares to spend gigabytes of mirror space to add -dbg
<seb128> but on the other side you they split binaries to win some space
<seb128> which means you get the mirror use and the apt index pollution for almost no win
<seb128> it's not specific against you
<seb128> but I don't think that oversplitting makes sense
<seb128> if mirror space is really an issue, which I'm not convinced that such small changes are worth the work really
<seb128> the arch all,any difference creates installability issues on some arches, make the list of packages harder to browser, slow the apt-get update run, create bugs, etc
<seb128> hum, makes me think about something
<seb128> pitti: hello!
<seb128> pitti: do you think we should discuss filtering the -dbg out since ubuntu is using the -dbgsym variants?
<seb128> mvo: or might rather something for you ;-)
<pitti> seb128: bonjour
<seb128> hey pitti
<pitti> seb128: in fact we did that already, and there's a spec for it already
<seb128> pitti: ok, good
<seb128> pitti: did you get the private directory mount filtering change upstream btw? they rolled a new version and I didn't notice that in the changelog, that the only difference we have over debian
<pitti> seb128: no, I didn't get any comment to the upstream bug yet :(
<seb128> hum, ok
<pitti> seb128: https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/debug-package-removal
<pitti> seb128: it was tiny, did it cause trouble during upgrade?
<pitti> seb128: any other suggestions what I should do about it? ping someone in IRC?
<seb128> pitti: no, it's just the difference between a merge and a sync ;-)
<pitti> oh, that is a difficulty
<seb128> pitti: I'll ping davidz when he's around
<pitti> seb128: I can file it to Debian, too
<seb128> pitti: don't bother, I don't think it'll disagree on getting that upstream, they just need a little nudge
<pitti> ecryptfs-utils is in Debian, too
<seb128> s/it'll/they'll
<pitti> seb128: I suppose we sync/merge from experimental?
<seb128> correct
<pitti> seb128: yeah, it's pretty straightforward, and they ignore other fs too
<mvo> seb128: hello! filtering it out in what way? remove them during upgrade?
<mvo> seb128: aha, nevermind, I just read the backlog (and remembered the spec)
<seb128> mvo: I guess that's not so much of an issue for gui users, ie gnome-app-install lists desktop applications rather but still would be nice to not have the confusion and faster apt-get update
<mvo> seb128: hello! I requested some syncs on stuff that has your name on the merge list (intltool, libglade2) - just fyi
<mvo> (and to avoid duplication of work)
<seb128> mvo: alright, thanks
<seb128> I should upgrade to jaunty
<seb128> pitti: hey ;-)
<pitti> asac, ArneGoetje, bryce, seb128: meeting o'clock
<seb128> hey mpt rickspencer3
<pitti> rickspencer3!
 * pedro_ waves
<rickspencer3> hi
<pitti> rickspencer3: welcome to the craz^Wgreat Ubuntu world!
<asac> hi
<seb128> hey pedro_
<rickspencer3> thanks
<asac> pitti: oh ... I have a call in 30 minutes
<pitti> asac: np
<ArneGoetje> hi
<mpt> hi seb128
<pitti> Riddell, calc, and Keybuk are on holiday, so small team today
<pitti> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2008-11-25
<pitti> ^ activity reports
<seb128> pitti: you are on holidays too according to the canonical website ;-)
<pitti> nobody sent in topics, so this will be quick
<pitti> @all: yes, the canonical thingy shows me on holiday, because I screwed up and requested holidays from 2008-12-18 to 2008-10-19
<pitti> spot the error :)
<pitti> two months negative holiday
<pitti> aaanyway
<seb128> I spot the bug in the software ;-)
<asac> haha
<pitti> Outstanding actions from last meeting
<pitti> Martin to talk to beuno to put the desktop team meeting at the fridge
<asac> pitti: thats a good trick for a long-term leave i guess
<pitti> -> done
<pitti> your evolutions should all display the correct time now
<pitti> - Everyone to register their specs and propose for "uds-jaunty" by the end of the week
<pitti> I saw quite a lot going past, and I did my best to fit them into the schedule
<pitti> so the desktop track is 100% filled now
<asac> oh
<pitti> did anyone register a spec which hasn't been accepted for UDS yet?
<pitti> we have some breakout rooms, if we need
<pitti> http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-jaunty/desktop/
<pitti> I'm not sure whether you are able to see this already, since it's still preliminary
<pitti> so, any last-minute additions from anyone?
<seb128> not from me
 * pitti takes that as "no" and chalks off the point
<pitti> so, next topic
<pitti> let's all give rickspencer3 a big hug
<pitti> he will be our new boss from December on
<pitti> which means he'll take the plunge right into the DX sprint and UDS
<rickspencer3> can't wait
<pitti> rickspencer3: already excited? :-)
<asac> welcome!
<seb128> rickspencer3: welcome on board ;-)
<ArneGoetje> welcome!
<pedro_> welcome rickspencer3!
<rickspencer3> thanks, looking forward to meeting everyone
<rickspencer3> next week?
<pitti> we planned some one-to-one introduction sessions on Friday during fosscamp
<pitti> some of you aren't there yet, for those we can do that on Sunday or Monday
<asac> i will arrive on Sat evening
<pitti> and we'll have a team dinner on Monday probably
<asac> i think bryce will arrive on Sunday (not sure when) ... so Monday would fit better i guess
<pitti> asac: yeah, that shouldn't be a problem at all
<pitti> so, we'll see each other in a week, and nobody sent in any topics, so let's make this meeting quick
<seb128> pitti: will we have an IRC meeting next week since you guys are already travelling?
<pitti> let's skip the meeting next week
<pitti> if there are urgent questions about UDS -> ping me on IRC or mail
<seb128> ok good
<pitti> my primary concern for this and the remainder of the next week is to finish the intrepid cleanup
<ArneGoetje> ok
<pitti> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+milestone/intrepid-updates still has a couple of open issues
<pitti> most of them for asac, though
<pitti> (enjoyed your holidays? :-)
<seb128> right, me too, cleaning the pending desktop sru this week would be nice
<seb128> I want to switch my laptop to jaunty next week
<pitti> asac: anything we can do to help you finish that this week? testing patches, or debugging something?
<asac> hard to say.
<bryce> morning
<pitti> hey bryce
<asac> i will finish those issue for which i have fixes for sure
<asac> but there are other issues that have been fixed in upstream tree ... but with huge patches
<pitti> seb128: I don't see any which are explicitly assigned to -desktop, can you please walk over the unassigned ones there and assign the ones yuou think are GNOMEish?
<pitti> asac: I understand that there are quite a bunch of bugs which already have patches
<seb128> looking
<asac> so after this round i will see if its possible to SRU the final 0.7 release (which hopefully happens)
<pitti> asac: maybe upload them now, and we'll defer the more tricky ones to a followup SRU?
<asac> pitti: yes. thats the plan.
<pitti> then we can do some intense testing, as long as many of us are still acutally using intrepid
<asac> yep
<pitti> after UDS, we'll have our head and computers full of jackalopes, I suppose :)
<seb128> pitti: nothing really GNOMish in this list
<mpt> ~And visions of jackalopes danced in their heads~
<pitti> seb128: only bug 204770 still seems to be open for you
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 204770 in tracker "[hardy] gdmsetup cause intensive disk activity and take a very long time to open" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/204770
<pitti> mpt: in my wildest dreams!
<kwwii> I think this name was picked to put an end to the mascot-on-the-wallpaper idea
<seb128> right
<pitti> kwwii: you mean we won't get a real photo this time?
<pitti> seb128: is that still the triggers-tracker bug?
<kwwii> pitti: I might need to take a few weeks off to find one in the wild west..I'll ask mark for permission :p
<seb128> pitti: I think so, it's fixed again in jaunty now, the change is trivial, will get it uploaded to intrepid too
<pitti> kwwii: do one of the Yeti, too, for Ubuntu 14.10 (or so)
<kwwii> lol, right
<pitti> next topic: merges
<pitti> we are pretty good, down to 69
<pitti> but there are still a couple which belong to our team
<pitti> http://merges.ubuntu.com/main.html
<pitti> please have a look and try to get them done by UDS
<seb128> that list is somewhat wrong though
<pitti> asac: I can steal your's, since you'll have your heads full of NM SRU, I think; ok?
<seb128> now that debian is frozen there is lot of things which are uploaded to experimental
<seb128> but they are not listed there
<asac> pitti: whats left? ifupdown? and?
<seb128> ie, all the GNOME updates
 * asac opens merge page
<asac> pitti: thanks ... go ahead ;)
<pitti> asac: igerman98; should be trivial, will do that
<asac> pitti: yes. you can leave ifupdown to me
<pitti> asac: shall I do ifupdown, too, or do you want to add magic NM sauce over it?
<pitti> alright
<pitti> ArneGoetje: are you fine with your three remaining ones?
<ArneGoetje> pitti: I think so. will do them tomorrow
<pitti> okay, great
<pitti> AOB?
<seb128> thanks pitti
<asac> anyone would volunteer to learn a bit about mozilla?
<asac> packaging and procedures?
<seb128> asac: why?
<asac> i was on vacation and wasnt really either because i appear to be the only one being able to do security updates
<seb128> :-(
<pitti> asac: in the sense of updating to a new upstream release?
<pitti> or in the sense of actually understanding the code?
 * pitti has done the former a lot, but not the latter
<asac> pitti: yes. how to update the packaging branches. how to produce proper orig.tar.gz
<asac> how to QA the stuff
<asac> and so on
<pitti> hm, that changed quite a lot
<pitti> asac: maybe you can document the procedure somewhere, so that we have a recipe, should we need to do it again?
<seb128> asac: not me, I've already way too much on my plates and that's not likely a trivial job
<asac> pitti: documentation helps. but practice is better ;)
<seb128> but what pitti said seems good
<asac> i think we have that documented somewhere already. but yeah, thats definitly a requirement
<pitti> asac: debian/rules make-orig or so?
<pitti> asac: QA> what do you do there, do you have a series of tests (web pages, menu commands, etc.) which you run through?
<asac> pitti: we have a get-orig-source rule. but it accepts parameters so you can get special tags/snapshots from CVS and so on
<asac> pitti: yes we have tests on a QA wiki page
<pitti> I also guess you test reverse dependencies, like epiphany?
<seb128> asac: you should teach that to the security team if that's for security updates ;-)
<pitti> asac: ah, that sounds good then; so I guess all is necessary is a 10-line README in the source package with some URLs?
<asac> pitti: everything should already be there from a documentation point of view. i am just sure that when there is a need to do an update it will take ages
<asac> pitti: theoretically yes. in practice sending out a security update needs someone who did that in the past imo
<asac> but we can talk about that at UDS
<asac> i will not be on holiday till christmas ;)
<pitti> asac: right; so a dry run would be beneficial, maybe with the security team
<pitti> asac: I figure you could check out an older version and claim that the current one was just released, and update to it as an exercise?
<pitti> asac: I think it's worth mailing security@u.c. and planning a firedrill
<asac> ok.
<asac> thats it on that point
 * asac has to join a call now
<pitti> thanks for bringing it up
 * asac waves
<pitti> asac: see you next week! *hug*
<pitti> see all of you next week, too!
<rickspencer4> thanks
<pitti> until then, happy merging, SRUing, and preparing for U.S. immigration :)
<pitti> rickspencer4: what happened to Rick the 3rd?
<ArneGoetje> thanks
<seb128> pitti: thanks, you too
<rickspencer4> I had to rejoin, and irc incremented my user name for me
<pitti> rickspencer4: look at how unstable seb128's ISP is...
<rickspencer4> problem is, rickspencer4 is mu boy
<rickspencer4> :o
<mpt> mvo, did you get my mail about package management?
<yotama9> hi guys. I hope this is the right channel to ask for help. I am trying to make 0my machine to auto play cd's when they are mounted to my machine (and also change those properties) any help?
<rlaager> yotama9: You want to be in #ubuntu
<yotama9> thanks
<espacious> can i still upgrade my feisty 7.04 desktop to maybe 7.10 or 8.04 or maybe eaven 8.10
<espacious> update manager hangs.
#ubuntu-desktop 2008-11-26
<mvo> hey MacSlow!
<mvo> and njpatel :)
<njpatel> mvo: morning !
<MacSlow> hey mvo
<seb128> pitti: any idea about what to blame for bug #302191 (see the screenshot)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 302191 in gnome-vfs "USB Devices not mounted automaticly as user" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/302191
<pitti> seb128: maybe no consolekit session?
<pitti> seb128: please sub me, will followup with some questions
<seb128> pitti: ok, thanks
<pitti> sub'ing usually works fine
<seb128> I'll reassign to gnome-mount which is nearer than gnomevfs
<pitti> incidentally I'm just creating an UDS presentation about bug mail handling :)
<seb128> ;-)
<pitti> seb128: right
<seb128> pitti: subscribed, thank you
<seb128> mvo: hey
<seb128> mvo: bug #301971, is that something you could filter out since that's not really a bug?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 301971 in gedit "package gedit 2.24.0-0ubuntu1 failed to install/upgrade: fork failed: Cannot allocate memory" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/301971
<mvo> seb128: sure, adding it now
<seb128> mvo: thank you
<mvo> seb128: in bzr now
<seb128> mvo: you rock ;-)
<andreasn> mpt: ping
<mvo> mpt: hello! I got your mail, sorry that I haven't replied yet
<mpt> mvo, ok
<hggdh> seb128, hi -- bug 205999 -- do you want to add the patch to evo stable?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 205999 in evolution-data-server "Attachments names using "Ã§" are not correctly sent by Evolution (ATT<number>.dat)" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/205999
<mvo> seb128: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/Specs/JauntyCodecInstall feel free to subscribe/add your own items
<seb128> mvo: ok thank you
<mvo> seb128: I didn't manage to get results with gnome-codecs-install from experimental
<mvo> not sure if that is just a issue with my system
<mvo> or with the version in experimental
<seb128> not sure either, you can try asking slomo when he's around though
<mvo> ok, I will try the same when I see him
<ember> mvo metacity branched, fixes amd64 ftbfs
<mvo> ember: excellent, thanks a lot!
<mvo> ember: will merge in a bit (#ubuntu-meeinting)
<ember> okidoki, thanks
<ottoshmidt> what is this chat room for, specifically?
<dobey> ubuntu desktop development
<ottoshmidt> most of participants are developers?
<pochu> if anybody feels like taking the eclipse merge, I won't complain :-)
<pochu> -EWRONGCHAN
#ubuntu-desktop 2008-11-27
<ganapati> no menu is being displayed on right click in the desktop
<ganapati> but right click works in other apps.. like terminal, firefox, etc
<MacSlow> for "lshw -C network" I get a listed "*-network UNCLAIMED" (that's eth0, which should be associated to the sky2 kernel-module)
<MacSlow> how do I fix that, so that a "sudo ifconfig eth0 up" automatically loads the correct kernel-module
<pochu> hey seb128
<seb128> hello pochu
<pochu> I removed vinagre-common. the problem was mostly with the documentation images being copied for every language when they weren't translated, instead of symlinked, but that's now fixed upstream in gnome-doc-tools, so the size will be reduced again when that's packaged
<seb128> right
<seb128> I've read the discussion on #gnome-debian
<pochu> ok :)
<seb128> see there is a better way than adding new binaries ;-)
<lool> asac: Woohoo NM 0.7 \o/
<lool> thanksgiving present!
<asac> lool: me?
<asac> what did i do?
<asac> oh final ;)
<james_w> huats: is bakeryconfig.h the only header needed in bakery2.6-dev?
<huats> james_w: hey
<james_w> hi huats
<james_w> how are you?
<seb128> mvo: hey, how busy are you and do you have an intrepid environment? ;-)
<mvo> hello seb128
<mvo> seb128: busy but not super busy - yes
<seb128> mvo: could you build and upload the fix for bug #204770?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 204770 in tracker "[hardy] gdmsetup cause intensive disk activity and take a very long time to open" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/204770
<seb128> mvo: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/15139212/tracker.debdifff is the change, intrepid just need the same
<mvo> seb128: sure
<seb128> mvo: I did upgrade my desktop to jaunty and my laptop is in a weird intrepid-jaunty mix
<seb128> mvo: I don't want to set an intrepid environment now only for that and it was on the remaining sru list
<seb128> mvo: danke!
<mvo> seb128: done
<seb128> mvo: you rock ;-)
<mvo> heh .)
 * seb128 is fighting jaunty today
<mvo> thanks, but that was really a minor thing :)
<seb128> right, I should have uploaded that before upgrading
<seb128> anyway that's one thing less on the intrepid todolist
<mvo> happy to help
<lapo> hi
<lapo> I got a dell mini9 congrats guys for the ui, very very nice
<seb128> lapo: thanks ;-)
<seb128> I didn't work on that but nice to see happy ubuntu users ;-)
<lapo> I just wanted to say congrats since the product is slick, I'm even feeling the urge of producing hires icons of all the applications there :-)
#ubuntu-desktop 2008-11-28
<huats> hello seb128
<seb128> lut huats
<huats> how are you ?
<seb128> good, thank you
<seb128> you?
<huats> good too !
<huats> !=
<huats> :)
<huats> I am taking some time for some ubuntu work, so it is a good indication ;)
<seb128> yeah ;-)
<lapo> hi
<fta> seb128, could you please have a look at bug 302859?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 302859 in epiphany-browser "Epiphany: Failed to instantiate LoginManager" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/302859
<fta> xul 1.9.1 is now in jaunty
<seb128> fta: looking
<seb128> fta: so xul broke compatibility? should it have a breaks on things which need to be updated?
<fta> seb128, no, ephy just needs to restrict its glue code to a more reasonable range, i.e., not [ 1.9a, 2 ]
<seb128> fta: did you open a bug upstream about that?
<fta> i guess it's not worth porting it to 1.9.1, as it's supposed to move to webkit
<fta> i didn't
<seb128> could you do it?
<seb128> I'll sponsor the jaunty update
<fta> ok, will do
<seb128> but would be nice to get the change upstream too
<_Dsr> is MPX merged into Xorg for Ubuntu Intrepid ?
#ubuntu-desktop 2008-11-29
<Greeny> hey guys
<godber> Hi ... anyone know how to make F10 (or other function keys) work in the gnome terminal?
<godber> I already tried http://ubuntu-tutorials.com/2007/07/16/disabling-the-f10-key-menu-accelerators-in-gnome-terminal/
<godber> neither method seems to have an effect
<godber> 8.04 ... gnome desktop
<godber> CTRL+ALT+F# also doesn't give me a console like the good ole days
<damy> hello :P
#ubuntu-desktop 2008-11-30
<]Oscar> I like to duplicate an existing user: where are store all desktop preference? I got the new user with mythbuntu defaults and not the ubuntu ones :(
<]Oscar> done: I found how to remove defaults from mythtv... :)
<solvos> permisi, yang pake bahasa indonesia siapa ya?
<solvos> duh susahnya regis di https://launchpad.net/+login, ada cara lain?
#ubuntu-desktop 2009-11-23
<pitti> Good morning
<didrocks> Guten Tag Her Pitti ;)
<didrocks> pitti: did you have a good flight?
<pitti> hey didrocks
<pitti> didrocks: yes, uneventful; slept 3 hours, which is pretty good for my standards in a plane :)
<pitti> didrocks: how about you?
<didrocks> pitti: good, thanks. Only slept 2 hours :( We arrived one hour in advance, but wait for 30 minutes before the plane can get a gate.
<didrocks> still a little bit tired, but less than expected :)
 * pitti gets some breakfast
<didrocks> enjoy your breakfast
<chrisccoulson> hello everyone
<pitti> hey chrisccoulson! how are you?
<chrisccoulson> pitti - good thanks. how are you? did you have a good week?
<pitti> yes, it was great; still feeling a bit weak (jetlag, lack of sleep in plane, etc.), but that will be fine soon :)
<didrocks> hey chrisccoulson!
<chrisccoulson> when did you arrive back?
<chrisccoulson> hey didrocks
<pitti> chrisccoulson: yesterday around noon
<chrisccoulson> yeah, i think i would probably be quite tired too ;)
<seb128> hello chrisccoulson pitti
<chrisccoulson> hey seb128
<seb128> chrisccoulson, how are you?
<didrocks> hello seb128 :)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, the baby arrived?
<seb128> I had no time for IRC during UDS
<seb128> hey didrocks
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - yeah, i'm ok. we have a baby now :)
<seb128> good!
<pitti> bonjour seb128
<seb128> everybody doing fine?
<chrisccoulson> she arrived on tuesday
<seb128> lut pitti
<pitti> chrisccoulson: congratulations! So I guess you have a reason to be tired, too?
 * pitti hugs chrisccoulson
 * pitti hugs seb128, too
<chrisccoulson> yeah, they're doing ok. had to stay in hospital a couple of days, but they got back home on friday
 * seb128 hugs chrisccoulson pitti
<pitti> seb128: I tried my 16 hours fasting -- seems to have worked ok
 * seb128 hugs didrocks
 * chrisccoulson hugs pitti and seb128
 * didrocks hugs pitti, seb128 and chrisccoulson :)
<seb128> pitti, when did you sleep this night?
 * seb128 did midnight to 10am
<pitti> usually after a trip from US to home it takes me like 4 hours to find some sleep
<seb128> still a bit tire
<seb128> tired
<pitti> yesterday I went to bed at 22:30, and fell asleep after 10 mintues; I woke up at 8:30
<seb128> excellent
<seb128> well, easy to find sleep
 * chrisccoulson hugs didrocks
<didrocks> 21h15 - 6h45 for me :)
<seb128> just don't sleep in the plane
<pitti> seb128: but I only slept 3 hours in the plane, so I had good reason to be tired
<pitti> didrocks: well
<seb128> after skipping a night you usually crash easily
<seb128> pitti, yeah, same here
<seb128> I didn't sleep much this time in the plane
<seb128> I finished my book instead!
<didrocks> seb128: were you so interested in the movies? :)
<didrocks> ah ;)
<seb128> no, but I was interested in my book and in being tired enough to sleep later
<pitti> seb128: I read the vala tutorial and did some first exercises
<pitti> vala is pretty nice, although vastly underdocumented
<pitti> I'll fiddle a bit more to get my d-bus example working and then post it to the vala wiki
<seb128> ah good
<mpt> Where could I find the algorithm that maps a Desktop Menu Specification category <http://standards.freedesktop.org/menu-spec/latest/apa.html> into an Ubuntu "Applications" menu category?
<mpt> e.g. that takes an application with "Category: Network" and puts it in "Internet"
<chrisccoulson> mpt - i'm not sure if it's what you are looking for, but the menu structure defined in /etc/xdg/menus has all of that information (about which categories appear in each sub-menu)
<chrisccoulson> specifically, applications.menu for the default menu
<mpt> chrisccoulson, that's exactly what I was looking for, thanks
<chrisccoulson> you're welcome
<czajkowski> aloha
<czajkowski> anyoe seen similar issues using gwibber 2.0 ? https://bugs.launchpad.net/gwibber/+bug/487064
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 487064 in gwibber "Message pane repaints frequently and resets the scroll status, losing reading position" [Undecided,New]
<huats> morning
<czajkowski> huats: aloha
<huats> hey czajkowski
<huats> are you ok, not suffering from the jetlatg ?
<czajkowski> huats: I'm not too bad thanks, rested yesterday and went to bed last night early. back at work today
<huats> ok
<czajkowski> huats: congrats on loco council :)
<huats> czajkowski, hum... I think I can congrat you too !
<huats> :D
<czajkowski> :) true
<rickspencer3> salut seb128
<seb128> lut rickspencer3
<seb128> hey tedg
<rickspencer3> good morning pitti, ccheney` asac etc...
<tedg> Good morning seb128
<asac> rickspencer3: hey
<seb128> rickspencer3, http://picasaweb.google.com/sdelcroix/FSpot#5407299873207857650
<seb128> hey asac
<seb128> rickspencer3, upstream f-spot already did the "edit in viewer"
 * asac hugs seb128 
<seb128> he pinged me today about what we need and did it during lunch time apparently
<rickspencer3> seb128, seriously?
<seb128> said it was trivial to do since the code was already there
<rickspencer3> that is awesome
<seb128> it just needed to make it available in view mode
<rickspencer3> FOSS ftw!
<seb128> ;-)
<pitti> hey rickspencer3!
<rickspencer3> hi pitti
<rickspencer3> here we go again ;)
<pitti> seb128: that sounds like the wrong way? I thought we want the button in eog to "edit in f-spot"?
<rickspencer3> pitti, maybe, but we need editability in the view mode anyway
<seb128> pitti, f-spot need to be able to edit...
<rickspencer3> currently you have to load images into the library to edit them
<pitti> seb128: ah, I understand
<seb128> then we can add the eog button
<pitti> so it's unrelated to that
<seb128> not really
<seb128> the "add an eog button" is easy
<seb128> but if you don't have anything to call from there...
<rickspencer3> pitti, well, only in that there would be no point in putting in an "edit" button if f-spot couldn't edit ;)
<pitti> MacSlow, seb128: btw, any chance we could make lucid's notify-osd a little less hideously looking by removing the lines?
<seb128> pitti, +1
<kenvandif> pitti, i think he will want those turned on for a little while
<seb128> kenvandif, he wants urgency to be on screen
<kenvandif> yeah
<seb128> the layout lines are probably of no use
<kenvandif> oh...
<kenvandif> good point
<kenvandif> perhaps those are both enabled by the same debug setting
<seb128> kenvandif, hey btw, did you see the f-spot comment?
<pitti> it's not that my design-untrained eye will ever report a bug against off-by-one pixels or so
<kenvandine> seb128, awesome
<seb128> kenvandine, right, which is why we ask now if we could have different level or option or turn layout lines
<kenvandine> seb128, i guess he didn't close the bug though (f-spot), i didn't get mail about it
<seb128> MacSlow, I agree with pitti, whatever way is easier for you but having a way to have only the colored bar would be nicer
<asac> pitti: hi. what is planned work-item wise this cycle? e.g. what improvements to tools etc.
<seb128> kenvandine, no, he might still be tweaking
 * kenvandine figured it should be trivial
<kenvandine> DBO has a patch which lets  you browse all photos in the current directory, even if you didn't specifically open them
<seb128> he's also asking for what other changes we need
<seb128> or want to get done
<seb128> he = sde
<asac> oh ... just found a mail about subscribing to work-items.py etc.
<seb128> he would welcome design team though about edit mode too
<kenvandine> we want him to merge that patch, i will make sure we add it to the bug
<seb128> ie how to conciliate browsing and editing
<kenvandine> seb128, who is workong on it?
<seb128> using sidepane for both
<seb128> or having a grid similar to f-spot library
<kenvandine> seb128, rickspencer3 also prefers having the browse sidebar on the bottom like eog does it
<kenvandine> basically rickspencer3's request was to make it look just like eog :)
<pitti> asac: I might add support for using bugs as WIs, but it's not there yet
<pitti> asac: thus so far we have whiteboard or wiki page
<pitti> asac: I'd rather ask it the other way round: is there something that your team needs/wants urgently?
<asac> pitti: ok thanks .... where is that workitems.py thing for the subscription lool asked for?
<rickspencer3> kenvandine, right, I'd also like a nicer looking button bar, like in EOG
<pitti> asac: it's running on my server, and I set the MAILTO to you now
<pitti> asac: i. e. you'll be spammed with "this BP has no work items defined", or "invalid WI status"
<rickspencer3> howver, I feel that the editing ability is the requirement, the rest are nice to have
<pitti> asac: http://piware.de/bzr/bin/workitems.py
<asac> pitti: nothing needed atm. maybe some doc what the current syntax allows in whiteboard (e.g. i know there was ways to assign work items to individual membmers != assignee)
<asac> pitti: ok great. let me bookmark it
<pitti> asac: doc> right, I need to set that up
<pitti> asac: the "assignee" one was mere convention right now ("[asac] do foo")
<pitti> asac: once I add a per-assignee report, I'll parse that
<asac> pitti: did the mobile team run that script on their own or was the graph generated for them by you too?
<pitti> asac: all on my machine so far
<asac> ok http://piware.de/workitems/mobile/lucid/report.html
<asac> i assume i need to ping you when we are done with work items so you can reset the trend line starting point?
<asac> pitti: ?
<pitti> asac: exactly
<asac> thx
<pitti> asac: i. e. I can either trash the DB for a clean start, or just adjust the starting #
<asac> right. thx a lot. great service ;)
<asac> pitti: one thing i wonder if we can better support it: e.g. we want to do targetting for alpha-2 etc ... is there a way we can make burndowns for those milestones somehow? do you plan to do something like that for desktop team?
<pitti> asac: right, that's in fact on my TODO list
<pitti> since we all have these three subcycles
<asac> good ... so we could use general "spec" milestones, but i guess this needs to be done on a per-work-item base
<pitti> asac: for now I only plan to parse spec-level milestones
<pitti> asac: as soon as we have support for using bugs, we can of course use WI-level granularity
<asac> kk
<seb128> pitti, how come apport is outdated in ubuntu? ;-)
 * seb128 looks at the versions.html list today
<pitti> seb128: ah, I did a new upstream release last Friday to test lp-project-upload
<pitti> so it's in fact true :)
<seb128> hehe
<mannyv> seb128, serialorder here, sorry for all those sync request bugs. I thought since they showed up on piware.de they had failed to autosync for some reason.
<seb128> mannyv, hey
<seb128> mannyv, no problem, but no, autosync are run manually so not every day
<seb128> and we sync from testing by default this cycle
<seb128> but usually if a version in ubuntu is coming directly from debian no need to bother
<Laney> is anyone processing the -archive queue?
<seb128> Laney, I've started doing autosync
<seb128> will have a look to sync and new after that
<rickspencer3> hmmm
<seb128> I expect there is quite some lag after uds
<Laney> yes it's huge
<Laney> prepare yourself ;)
<rickspencer3> according to slashdot their is a large group of people who are technical enough to depend on the gimp, but not technical enough to install new software on their desktop
<seb128> I will no clean everything
<seb128> but since half of archive admin are on holidays this week I will try to do some
<Laney> does autosync also do new packages?
<Laney> or is that a separate run
<seb128> to be honest I really care about autosyncs catchup and desktop syncs and newing
<seb128> I will probably let other things to other people
<seb128> there is a different command to run for those
<seb128> but I will run it too
<Laney> alright
<asac> mvo: hi ;) ... did you recover from travel?
<asac> mvo: what determines which package gets into software center? is that whatever has a .desktop file?
<asac> and ... is there a way to tweak this?
<seb128> asac, I guess that's .desktop but there was a spec at uds about listing other things there
<Amaranth> hey, people talk here again
<Amaranth> oh, right, UDS over :)
<seb128> hey Amaranth
<Tm_T> Amaranth: nono, go back to sleep
<seb128> Amaranth, how are you?
<Amaranth> oops, was reading scrollback
<Amaranth> seb128: good, did you have a good trip back from texas?
<seb128> yes thanks
<seb128> I managed to read in the plane and sleep a bit, correspondance was easy to get no need to run, everything went smoothly
<Amaranth> lucky
<seb128> and I managed to sleep at normal hours yesterday
<seb128> so all good
<Amaranth> dang, was hoping I could get you guys on US time :)
<seb128> Amaranth, so, we need to speed compiz this cycle any plan or hint for that?
<seb128> Amaranth, is your version not using the wrapper good to go in lucid?
<Amaranth> seb128: well I showed it to upstream and they noticed a small memory leak in the blacklist checking but I've fixed that now
<Amaranth> that plus splitting up the packaging more will likely be all the speedup we get
<seb128> do you have any clue about how much speed up that will be?
<Amaranth> Unless we want to do something crazy like backport the module loading setup from the 0.9 branch (master)
<pitti> Amaranth: splitting up packaging> into plugins we enable by default, and an "extra-plugins" kind of pacakge?
<Amaranth> Then we will not have to read XML on start
<pitti> Amaranth: "crazy" describes the challenge we face well
<pitti> Amaranth: we have to cut down desktop startup time by 2/3..
<Amaranth> pitti: Well, it would completely change the plugin interface ABI
<seb128> well, if we don't get it to run quick enough no compiz by default anymore in lucid
<pitti> Amaranth: that alone doesn't scare me at all two weeks after opening a release :)
<Amaranth> compositing in general will slow down login time
<Amaranth> also it seems kind of silly that we're fighting for a 10 second boot+login then in 10.10 running gnome-shell will change that to 20 seconds
<seb128> we never said we would take gnome-shell without any consideration
<seb128> we will ponder pro and con before any change
<mvo> asac: yes and yes
<mvo> asac: mostly recovered anyway
<mvo> asac: what do you need in s-c ?
<Amaranth> in that case bring on the crazy
<seb128> compositing makes things slower but there is no reason to be that slow
<Amaranth> I wish we could get upstream releases of 0.9.x faster though :/
<seb128> do you have any clue how much difference the new loader will do?
<seb128> 0.9 is not on the table for lucid
<Amaranth> I know, thus the :(
<Amaranth> err, :/
<Amaranth> hehe
<Amaranth> If 0.9 had come out before karmic release I think it would have been feasible even if karmic didn't actually end up with an 0.9 release
<Amaranth> anyway
<seb128> what would have a been feasible?
<Amaranth> using 0.9/0.10 in lucid
<asac> mvo: just saw a mail by bdrung about eclipse on devel-discuss (and tha the wrong package is included in sc)
<asac> mvo: maybe you can follow up directly there?
<Amaranth> not that it matters now, we'll likely see 0.9 in time to stick it in lucid+1
<seb128> Amaranth, it's not in the table even if 0.9 was available next month
<seb128> we will not change the compiz codebase in a lts when we have no compiz maintainer
<Amaranth> But I have no idea how much time not loading the XML will save, benchmarking compiz is tricky
<seb128> robert_ancell will be on oem shift this cycle
<seb128> not that you don't do a rocking job there
<Amaranth> I'd likely just have to do it and see what bootchart says
<seb128> but better to be on the safe side
<seb128> what do you suggest doing then?
<Amaranth> It has to make some kind of difference though, it freaking loads XML using XPath
<seb128> 1- use you ppa version with wrapper changes
<seb128> 2- don't install the things we don't use
<seb128> 3- look at the new loader?
<Amaranth> the changes to drop the wrapper should go into lucid ASAP
<seb128> ok
<Amaranth> Then once we have an idea on the default settings we can split up the packaging
<seb128> are those ready for upload?
<seb128> in which case I can have a look to that today or tomorrow
<Amaranth> let me build again with the new patch and push
<seb128> thanks
<seb128> we have an idea of the default settings we want
<seb128> we can do the binary change
<seb128> we can tweak later if required
<Amaranth> although splitting the packaging up is not going to make much of a difference
<Amaranth> and will make almost no difference at all if we change the plugin loader to not load XML
<seb128> what is taking time if that's not the loader?
<seb128> we want to split those anyway so people installing cssm don't get too much crack
<Amaranth> the shell script and redirecting existing windows
<paul> hey...
<seb128> hi paul
 * paul wonders if there are any #gwibber people here
<seb128> Amaranth, ok, so let's get this wrapper changer as a first step
<Amaranth> alright
<seb128> paul, talk to kenvandine
<Amaranth> should I name the packages compiz-plugins-universe or something?
<paul> seb128: cheers :)
<seb128> Amaranth, yes
<Amaranth> Can't use compiz-plugins-extra because then we'd have compiz-fusion-plugins-extra-extra :)
<seb128> universe sounds good
<seb128> we already have extras, etc
<seb128> right
<Amaranth> Ideally we wouldn't use anything from extras but alas
<seb128> what do we need from there?
<paul> kenvandine: hey, just wondering if you know whether bug 487064 will be a trivial fix or not? (i.e. should I go back to 1.4)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 487064 in gwibber "Message pane repaints frequently and resets the scroll status, losing reading position" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/487064
<Amaranth> seb128: hmm, I actually can't think of anything
<Amaranth> let me check what we load by default again
<kenvandine> paul, not sure
<kenvandine> i don't think that is happening here
<rickspencer3> pitti, nice mail wrt work items, could I ask you to share it with other tech leads to help them get started?
<kenvandine> paul, can you run "gwibber-daemon -d" and gwibber in terminals to catch output?
<kenvandine> i wonder if it is failing to render something and looping or something crazy
<asac> kenvandine: you can reproduce this by scrolling somewhere and hitting reload
<kenvandine> paul, also which gwibber theme are you using?
<kenvandine> asac, well on reload yes it does do that
<kenvandine> which it probably shouldn't
<asac> right. so i would expect every refresh to do that oo ;)
<kenvandine> but that is different, he says it happens even when it is set to refresh less often
<asac> i dont think that reload is technically much different from refresh
<asac> hmm
<kenvandine> it isn't
<kenvandine> no different
<asac> ok ... so probably when daemon gets update (which is independent from refresh)
<Amaranth> seb128: hehe, we only use plugins-extra for extrawm
<asac> it triggers a UI refresh
<paul> kenvandine: it's the default
<paul> kenvandine: i can try that, yeah
<kenvandine> but if he is set to fetch updates every 15m
<asac> kenvandine: isnt that fetch update setting the UI trigger time?
<Amaranth> seb128: and we don't even set any keybindings in extrawm so it doesn't get used at all
<asac> i guess the daemon threads still keep on going as usual?
<kenvandine> asac, we should make sure... but it should be the interval the daemon is set to use
<Amaranth> seb128: so we can kick that one out to universe entirely
<kenvandine> i scrolled mine down a little and left it sitting here and it hasn't moved
<kenvandine> but i am sure it will when it updates next
<seb128> Amaranth, excellent
<kenvandine> asac, paul's bug is that it does that every 10s or so
<Amaranth> seb128: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~amaranth/compiz/no_wrapper is the changes to get rid of the shell script
<paul> kenvandine: well, it's not doing it now.. maybe it takes time or some other actions to manifest.
<paul> (though, it has done across several restarts before, so i'm confident it's reproducable)
<seb128> Amaranth, ok, thanks, will have a look to that in a bit
<Amaranth> I don't know if mvo wants to make a karmic branch from the main compiz branch and I was hoping someone would look it over first so I pushed it there instead of the main branch
<paul> lets wait 15 min till it does its next fetch of new messages
<seb128> mvo, ^ want to do that or should I have a look to those changes?
<paul> kenvandine: yes, my problem is it will update the UI pane every 10s or so - no new messages
<czajkowski> paul: aloha
<paul> czajkowski: [ALOLRA protocol changes to state m1_waiting]
<czajkowski> paul: I'm safe from ye lot on freenode :)
<paul> czajkowski: ooh, i see you're iLolra on this server ;)
<kenvandine> paul, could it be images loading?
<paul> kenvandine: it could
<kenvandine> so the images loading push everything down as they come in
<kenvandine> which is very annoying
<Amaranth> Oh, I forgot I also refreshed all the patches so it looks like a lot of changes
<kenvandine> but once they are all downloaded it should say put
<Amaranth> The only real changes are to the packaging stuff and the 060 patch
<paul> kenvandine: its not a push down - its a reset back to the top
<kenvandine> ok, so it isn't that
<paul> i.e. the scroll slider gets reset to beginning
<paul> kenvandine: ok, its not the images loading - i just scrolled down to a point where there were still images to be loaded and they got painted without any scroll-state reset
<czajkowski> kenvandine: you got back ok then. tired from a long week ?
<kenvandine> yeah :)
<kenvandine> and you?
<kenvandine> paul, what version of webkit?
<mvo> seb128: I planed to look at it, but maybe not today
<kenvandine> paul, actually can you post the webkit version to the bug?
<czajkowski> yeah 6am yesterday. Was slithgly wrecked, back at work today and no wanting to be here :) 1 hr left though
<mvo> Amaranth: I can branch karmic if there is a need for this, not sure, there is some pending stuff, so its probably a good idea
<seb128> mvo, ok thanks
<paul> kenvandine: sure
<kenvandine> czajkowski, i was anxious to get to work... lots of stuff to do now that uds is over :)
<czajkowski> kenvandine: I've all my gobby docs downloaded and glanced at them last night and see my name against a good few tasks ;)
<kenvandine> hehe
<kenvandine> good :)
<czajkowski> for lucid I've defiantely got some clear goals and tasks to get through for community
<paul> kenvandine: 1.1.10 (webkit)
<kenvandine> ok, we have 1.1.15.2-1 in ubuntu
<kenvandine> i'll talk to ryan and see if he has ideas
<paul> kenvandine: i may update to F12 at some stage, which has 1.1.15
<paul> though, that might not be till around christmas..
<kenvandine> yeah, but i would like to see if that is the problem
<czajkowski> paul: see amazing what hapens when you log and dont just keep whinging on twitter and annoying me :)
<kenvandine> :)
<paul> kenvandine: ok, i might have an F12 test system i can try (dont use it as dsktop at mo)
<paul> czajkowski: indeed
<kenvandine> paul, that would actually be great
<kenvandine> really help narrow the scope
<czajkowski> paul: bugs = fixes :)
<kenvandine> that pane is rendered with webkit, so seems most like it would be the culprit
<paul> kenvandine: ok, it's happening (but large interval) - nothing in the debug output for either daemon or app
<paul> kenvandine: interesting
<paul> kenvandine: it handles the scroll state too then?
<paul> wait, i might be assuming that
<kenvandine> paul, yes... most likely
<kenvandine> that could be javascript
<paul> kenvandine: ok, seems i need to leave it a while / use it a while
<paul> kenvandine: fwiw, it's not leaving 15 minutes between updates
<paul> its more like 5
 * Ng files bug #487165 and wonders if other people get that without transparent windows and think everything has somehow crashed
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 487165 in compiz "screensaver unlock dialog under other windows" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/487165
<mpt> mvo, I found "man apturl"
<mvo> mpt: great, I'm not sure if it covers it fully, but it should be good enough to give a overview
<mpt> mvo, it gives examples of multiple packages (foo,bar), sections (foo?section=universe), and PPAs
<mpt> mvo, in future it would be nice to have a syntax for departments, and a syntax for canned searches
<mpt> and apt.ubuntu.com equivalents for all of the above
<mvo> mpt: makes sense, could you just mail me about it, I think we can add this trivially
<mvo> mpt: the only one I found is "minver=1.0" to ensure the package has the right version
 * mvo is away for a bit for lunch
<seb128> mvo, still on us time? ;-)
<mpt> mvo, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SoftwareCenter?action=diff&rev2=240&rev1=238
<mvo> mpt: thanks
<mvo> seb128: yes, at least my brain
<mpt> mvo, adding those other URLs is v4-type stuff, no need to worry about it now :-)
 * mpt -> home
<pitti> rickspencer3: can do
<paul> kenvandine: bingo - i think i know whats causing the refresh - searches
<paul> kenvandine: they seem to get scheduled very frequently at times
<paul> (with the general message pane open - not a search specific pane even)
<paul> kenvandine: i had a run of 3 updates just there, circa 40s, 7s and 13s apart.
<kenvandine> humm
<kenvandine> paul, so you have a search stream open right, but you are in the messages pane?
<paul> kenvandine: i have some searches defined yes
 * kenvandine tries that
<paul> kenvandine: there tend to be a few twitter tags i keep an eye on, some on a permanent basis.
<paul> (though, i have the searches defined 'globally', ifthat makes sense)
<paul> kenvandine: i've 5 searches at the mo
<kenvandine> ok, i've reproduced it?
<kenvandine> s/?//
<paul> w00t :)
<kenvandine> paul, can you comment to that affect on the bug?
<kenvandine> and i will assign it to myself
<kenvandine> this is bad... :)
<paul> kenvandine: already did ;)
<paul> kenvandine: it's a tad annoying, yes.
<paul> (don't get me wrong - gwibber rocks, thanks v much ;) )
<paul> kenvandine: also, the general scheduling seems fubar
<kenvandine> :)
<paul> kenvandine: e.g. even without searches, it's updating every 5 min - though i asked for 15min
<kenvandine> paul, i have a fix for that already
<kenvandine> :)
<kenvandine> yeah
<kenvandine> i noticed that after you mentioned it this morning
<paul> kenvandine: also, if you happen to be in the general area, it'd be nice if searches got saved.
<kenvandine> i have a fix  already
<paul> finally, could you reconsider the bug i referred to, which was "Won't Fix" (about not reseting scroll state on reload)
<kenvandine> saved searches is a little harder
<kenvandine> i think it is planned for 2.1
<paul> ok
<kenvandine> which bug?
<paul> hmm, it's not closed: https://bugs.launchpad.net/gwibber/+bug/327172
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 327172 in gwibber "Gwibber lists jump to top of page when updated" [Medium,Confirmed]
<kenvandine> paul, thx!
<czajkowski> paul: see this was much easier ;)
<paul> czajkowski: he ;)
<pablin> hi
<dobey> pitti, seb128: if either of you are around, do you think bug #487224 is something we could put in an SRU? or is it something we just have to do in lucid at this point?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 487224 in gnome-power-manager "Depends on notification-daemon but should Recommends instead" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/487224
<pitti> dobey: fine for lucid, but it doesn't seem to be a big deal for karmic?
<pitti> (btw, your debdiff is broken)
<dobey> it is? hrmm
<dobey> how is it broken?
<pitti> well, it contains a lot of unrelated changes and changelog entries
<pitti> dobey: if there's a lot of demand for it, it's small enough to be SRUable; did you see a lot of complaints?
<dobey> oh i just attached the .diff.gz from doing debuild
<dobey> pitti: not a lot but there is someone wanting us to add an option to hide notifications in ubuntuone-client-applet
<dobey> and i was just wondering if notify-osd could just be totally removed for people who don't want notifications
<dobey> and i saw gnome-power-manager ubuntu-desktop and update-manager wanted to get removed also
<dobey> pitti: is there some special command i need to run to get the diff between the two versions instead?
<dobey> this is a new process to me :)
<Amaranth> Hrm, mvo says compiz-wrapper is used by KDE
<Amaranth> I can't see where
<Amaranth> ldm depends on it for some reason though
<mac_v> dobey: hi... who is doing the work in implementing the -symbolic icons?
<mac_v> or mpt ? ^
<dobey> mac_v: which part?
<dobey> mac_v: there are several pieces of work that need to be done for it
<mac_v> dobey: the rsvg part i guess[code-wise]
<dobey> well rsvg is somewhat unmaintained at the moment, so not sure who will do that
<dobey> but i think it already supports most all the stuff the symbolics will need
<mac_v> dobey: hmm , mainly I like to know the color to be used in the icons , once it is known what color to use , I can convert the icons already present in Karmic and the extra icons that I have already done, there seems to be enthusiasm in the community too regarding these icons , so by Lucid UI freeze we can get a lot more icons done
<mac_v> I'd
<dobey> mac_v: color to be used? the color will be determined by the gtk+ theme
<dobey> mac_v: the svg will need some specific data on the path/group to be "colorized by code" though
<mac_v> dobey: so we can use any color in the icons? and the color would just change to the gtk+ defined one? iirc mpt's idea mentioned the use of a specific color
<mac_v> if thats not needed then awesome :)
<dobey> there was discussion of using a specific color, but we decided it should be an id on the object/group i believe
<dobey> tedg: ^^ id on the object/group correct, and not specific color?
<tedg> I thought we were going to use CSS named colors.
<tedg> The fact that Inkscape doesn't really support them is part of the issue.
<mac_v> dobey: thats actually good and kinda bad , if we dont need a specific then less work needed to port the icons... But then how to we use red to show warnings
<tedg> So I was thinking that a quick hack would be to replace some specific colors with names.
<dobey> mac_v: you just use red to show warnings
<dobey> mac_v: the red wouldn't get colored by gtk+
<dobey> tedg: ah ok, that makes sense
<mac_v> dobey: so those wont be having a -symbolic tag ? ok cool
<mac_v> s/tag/name
<dobey> well, ideally, the -symbolic names wouldn't need to exist
<dobey> but i guess some people want to have the same icons in color in some places, and monochrome in others
<dobey> which i am not fond of
<dobey> but eh
<mac_v> ;)
<mac_v> tedg: is there a bug to track this ?
<tedg> mac_v: Not that I'm aware of.  A blueprint would probably make more sense.
<tedg> There should be one since it had a session at UDS.
<tedg> mpt: Is there a blueprint for symbolic icons?
<dobey> tedg: kwwii set that session up, so he'd be the one to ask i guess
<mac_v> there is a wiki > https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SymbolicIcons
<dobey> mac_v: i think that's just the notes from the gobby doc for it :)
<mac_v> dobey: yup , but i dont think there is a blueprint... I'm searching for one atm
<mac_v> dobey: on a different topic > is this something you want to do for Lucid > https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/humanity/+spec/request-ubuntu-one-file-icon
<mac_v> Ubuntu can carry a patch I suppose
<dobey> mac_v: i don't think we should do that, no
<dobey> mac_v: and given our plan for lucid is "allow arbitrary directory syncing" i don't think it fits at all :)
<mac_v> either way , is Fine with me :)
<dobey> mac_v: then resolving won't fix is the best answer i guess :)
<mannyv> in kickstart when i select the leave options there is no shutdown or reboot
<mannyv> woops
<mannyv> wrong channel
<mac_v> dobey: hmm ,regarding the -symbolic names...  there would be a problem if there is not separate symbolic name , otherwise icons which are not meant/designed to be monochrome would end up being rendered monochrome and indistinguishable.
<mac_v> BTW , gnome3 seems to being going monochrome too , in the status area
<pitti> good night everyone
<dobey> mac_v: there wouldn't be a problem. naming != design
<dobey> night pitti
<mac_v> dobey: hmm , there wouldnt... thats good... I just imagined that if the -symbolic wasnt implemented then if the user switches to the gnome icon theme , the icons which aernt designed to be monochrome , would be turned monochrome... hmm , maybe once the work is done I'd understand how this works better.. :)
<dobey> mac_v: the gnome-icon-theme icons wouldn't have the attributes in them (plus it only installs PNGs to the system anyway)
<dobey> or well, it will only install PNGs in 2.30 at least
<mac_v> dobey: hmm , so this would affect a theme with svgs .. lol... humanity is the only odd one out then.. great :p
<dobey> well
<dobey> only if the SVGs marked the different paths with the named css colors or whatever
<mac_v> ah... got it :)
<dobey> but ideally, monochrome stuff wouldn't be part of the icon theme anyway. it would be private SVGs or font characters or cairo code
<baptistemm_> someone intertested to package rhythmbox
<baptistemm_> 0.12.6
<mac_v> baptistemm_: hmm , if i'm not mistaken ... isnt that a -motu topic/question ?
<baptistemm_> ah someone already did it
<mac_v> tedg: xchat uses a notification area icon , right ?where does xchat get the icon from?
<tedg> mac_v: Not sure, probably installs it in /usr/share/pixmaps ?
<tedg> Might put it in hicolor as well.
<mac_v> doh!.. i was looking only in /usr/share/icons/  !
<mac_v> let me check the pixmap icon :)
<mac_v> aw, that didnt work :(
<seb128> mac_v, /usr/share/xchat-gnome/icons/hicolor/scalable/
<mac_v> seb128: hmm , i'm using the regular xchat :( .....
<seb128> oh, dunno then
<mac_v> didnt like xchat-gnome since it doesnt display the user list ;)
<mac_v> in the window
<seb128> it does, you just have to click on a button, it doesn't stay on screen though
<mac_v> actually , i found that icon a long time back , now i forgot where :(
<mac_v> seb128: yeah , thats what i meant... i had to click the button everytime , thats was the only problem , hope kenvandine adds that function ;)
<seb128> there is a patch waiting for review doing that
<mac_v> s/function/feature
<mac_v> seb128: ah , that would be great :)
<kenvandine> seb128, it is actually a blocker for their upcoming release
 * mac_v not searches for bug to keep track ;)
<mac_v> now*
<kenvandine> i only noticed because of the patch i submitted was marked as a blocker too
<kenvandine> and i looked over their list, they merged mine last week
<mac_v> kenvandine: oh.. so that is not possible?
<kenvandine> hehe
<kenvandine> now?
<kenvandine> it will be in the next release yes
<seb128> there is active xchat-gnome maintainers?
<kenvandine> which i think is real soon
<seb128> there has been no tarball for a while now
<kenvandine> seb128, apparently
<mac_v> kenvandine: ah , thats great :) , any bug number?
<kenvandine> they marked 10 or so bugs as blockers and already closed several
<kenvandine> mac_v, one sec
<seb128> kenvandine, bug #174624 has a debdiff
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 174624 in xchat-gnome "No way to always show the user list" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/174624
<seb128> could you perhaps comment on it?
<seb128> I was going to review it this week
<seb128> but if upstream has commited a patch already better to use their version
<kenvandine> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=323488
<ubottu> Gnome bug 323488 in general "allow to customize chan/user lists position" [Enhancement,Unconfirmed]
<mac_v> kenvandine:  thanks :)
<kenvandine> blocker for 0.26.2 release
<kenvandine> mac_v, np
<TheMuso> seb128: Hey there. You had an uneventful trip back?
<seb128> TheMuso, hello, yes thanks
<seb128> what about you?
<TheMuso> seb128: Uneventful as well, its good to be back.
<rickspencer3> good morning TheMuso
<TheMuso> Hey rickspencer3.
<bratsche> Does anyone here happen to know how gnome-panel and gdm-greeter determine which monitor to use?
<dobey> now we might all actually get some work done :)
<eeejay> TheMuso, is uneventful the best you could hope for? ;)
<dobey> bratsche: i think gnome-panel always uses "bottom left" or something. hence if you put a projector to the left of your laptop screen, and unplug the projector, you lose your panel
<dobey> bratsche: of course, i could be wrong :)
<bratsche> Well, I've noticed that on my systems gdm-greeter seems to display on monitor #1 for some reason, while everything else seems to happen on #0.  I haven't looked into the gdm-greeter code at all yet, was just curious.
<dobey> ah
<dobey> maybe it is just 0
<bratsche> I wrote a patch for gtk+ to expose API for querying the "primary monitor" from xrandr, but our display preferences util doesn't actually allow you to set the primary monitor so I'm not sure how useful this will be yet.
<dobey> i'm not sure gnome-panel does anything special, actually
<seb128> gnome-panel uses the primary xrandr monitor I think
<bratsche> So I was thinking that if everyone is kind of doing their own thing we could standardize on using the xrandr primary monitor.
<seb128> there is a bug open on the GNOME capplet about the "no way to set the primary monitor"
<seb128> not sure what gdm does
<seb128> but we got bugs similar to yours
<dobey> but i'm also happy just having one monitor, i just wish i could get one that was 300dpi
<dobey> anyway, it's time for me to call it a day
<dobey> later :)
<bratsche> Okay cool.. I'll peek into gdm sometime to see what it's doing, and then I'll write to desktop-devel-list about it once I have more info.  Thanks seb128!
<bratsche> Later dobey!
<seb128> bratsche, gnome bug #595531
<ubottu> Gnome bug 595531 in general "gdm login is displayed on secondary monitor" [Normal,Unconfirmed] http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=595531
<bratsche> hot!
<bratsche> seb128: Thanks!
<seb128> you're welcome
<seb128> the bug is not very useful though
<seb128> in any case thanks for working on the issue ;-)
<seb128> bratsche, gnome bug #564713
<bratsche> seb128: Well, I get a shitload of bugs filed against xsplash because you see xsplash on monitor #0, then gdm greeter on #1, then xsplash on #0.. so I would like to fix this properly. :)
<ubottu> Gnome bug 564713 in Display preferences "Need an option to select the primary display" [Minor,New] http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=564713
<seb128> bratsche, gnome bug #564713 is the gnome display capplet one
<seb128> bratsche, gnome bug #564713 is the gnome display capplet one
<seb128> ups
<seb128> sorry about that
<bratsche> :)
<TheMuso> eeejay: Pretty much.
<seb128> I think there was also a gnome-panel one
<seb128> vuntz might know about this one, I don't find it now
<seb128> ah
<seb128> bratsche, gnome bug #562944
<ubottu> Gnome bug 562944 in general "Make use of the randr 1.3 primary output" [Normal,Unconfirmed] http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=562944
<seb128> this one has useful comments
<bratsche> Awesome, I added those to my gtk+ so I can track them.
<bratsche> *to my gtk+ bug
<seb128> hey robert_ancell, had a good trip back?
<robert_ancell> seb128, yeah, made it back in one piece
<rickspencer3> robert_ancell, you're back, I assumed you would still be on a boat or somethign
<rickspencer3> ?
<rickspencer3> j/k
<robert_ancell> rickspencer3, I am on a boat.  They have internet at least ;)
<rickspencer3> chouette!
<seb128> robert_ancell, are you already on eom tasks or still doing desktop this week?
<robert_ancell> seb128, still desktop until contacted by oem (as confirmed by Alice).  They are supposed to be contacting me this week
<seb128> ok
<seb128> good ;-)
<seb128> there are still quite some updates and merges to do
<seb128> you are welcome to do the gdm 2.29 update and review patches for upstream if you want
<bratsche> Hi robert_ancell
<robert_ancell> bratsche, hey
<TheMuso> Hey robert_ancell.
<robert_ancell> TheMuso, hey hey
<robert_ancell> rickspencer3, did you see http://blog.reblochon.org/2009/11/unleash-your-f-spot-toolbox.html
 * rickspencer3 looks
<rickspencer3> robert_ancell, yes, I saw
<rickspencer3> this seems like a great solutin
<robert_ancell> yeah if the startup time can be improved then this would be great
<rickspencer3> in the meantime, seems many people are deeply concerned about the set of people who are technical enough to need Gimp in their distro, but not technical enough to install it
<rickspencer3> kudos to Stephane, nice to see someone taking a "can do" approach to a problem
<bryce> yeah sweet
<bryce> the ui looks spiff too
<robert_ancell> rickspencer3, yeah, we really need the "editors pick" for those people
<bryce> although in comparison to gimp, that's not hard *duck*
<seb128> still lacks a nice way to get edit options though
<seb128> right now it requires displaying the sidebar and changing the mode to edit
<rickspencer3> yeah, it should do edit by default
<seb128> upstream is open to suggestions on how to do that nicely
<rickspencer3> or, would be nice if the edit functions were in a toolbar
<seb128> well, default is collection
<seb128> ie it lists all the images in the folder
<seb128> which some users like too...
<rickspencer3> maybe a -edit option
<seb128> I like to the toolbar idea
<rickspencer3> so if you load it with "edit with f-spot" it defaults one way, and "view with f-spot" defaults the other
<seb128> or at least display the edit pane from a toolbar toggle or something
<bryce> would you guys like to see something scary?  http://www2.bryceharrington.org:8080/X/Graphs/totals.svg
<seb128> urg
<bryce> heh, I have to increase my graph boundary limits now
<seb128> do you count all bugs or only open ones?
<bryce> LOL
<bryce> seb128, this is just open bugs
<rickspencer3> hmmm
<rickspencer3> bryce,  are the new bugs spread out, or do some areas account for more than others
<rickspencer3> ?
<seb128> it would be interesting to see if all distro follow the same curve
<rickspencer3> or at least all packages in Ubuntu
<seb128> ie if we have an increasing number of users or if xorg is buggier
<bryce> it's fairly well spread
<rickspencer3> maybe we *think* x is buggy because bryce is good at measuring it
<rickspencer3> if they are spread out evenly, it suggest more users = more bug reports
<seb128> my gut feeling is that we would have a similar curve on GNOME
<rickspencer3> as apposed to more buggy
<seb128> right
<seb128> I had the feeling the bug number was increasing on GNOME set too
<bryce> I have a suspicion that there may be a kernel patch that broke resolution detection and is causing a lot of bug reports.  I sent the kernel guys an email this morning regarding this.
<seb128> but we don't have good tools or metric there
<bryce> but it's equally possible that we just have the same old bugs, but now have a lot more users filing them
 * rickspencer3 gets back to writing
#ubuntu-desktop 2009-11-24
<pitti> Good morning
 * bryce waves to pitti
<pitti> hey bryce
<pitti> bryce: so you think hal-less X.org would actually be feasible for lucid? from the ML and mjg59's comments it seemed that it would be too hard
<bryce> pitti, I don't really think it is feasible without incurring a considerable number of regressions
<bryce> pitti, however keybuk felt it had to be done regardless
<bryce> pitti, so I'm unclear as to what to do and could use your direction on this one
<pitti> bryce: for normal mice/keyboards it shouldn't actually be hard; I'm mostly concerned about those wacom things
<pitti> TBH I have no idea how those work
<pitti> for normal mice/keyboards, I'm happy to build a test X.org server in a PPA with the patch, and with the Ubuntu specific bits to set the keyboard layout
<bryce> mostly I'm concerned with the manpower that'll be required to chase down and fix regressions this change may cause
<pitti> bryce: do you know of other "weird" input devices that we need to be concerned about?
<pitti> touch screens seem to be represented as normal mice
<pitti> I have a Joystick, we can test those as well
<bryce> yeah
<bryce> anything where we have some fdi files, I guess those will need changed into udev rules
<pitti> but the basic task is actually quite simple: get the input device list from the kernel (lsinput-like), augment it with some properties like keyboard layout, and poke it into X
<pitti> right now, it's udev -> hal -> X.org, and we'd just skip the middle man
<bryce> for wacom, I've contacted the wacom driver developer about it
<pitti> keyboard layouts are well understood, they just need to be grabbed from /etc/default/console-setup for us
<pitti> one problem I know of are options for the synaptics driver
<bryce> we'll need xserver 1.7 but once we're on that, there is a fixed -wacom available we can use
<pitti> oooh
<pitti> well, 1.7 is the plan anyway, right?
<pitti> bryce: so, I don't see a principal reason why the synaptics options couldn't become udev properties instead of hal properties
<bryce> right (and not coincidentally)
<pitti> it might not be the cleanest solution, but it will work
<pitti> in the long run, those options should maybe get back into xorg.conf
<bryce> noooo
<pitti> or an xorg.conf.d/50-synaptics or so
<pitti> but anyway, converting that synaptics fdi file into an udev rules file to slam the parameters to the touchpad input device seems entirely feasible
<didrocks> hey bryce and pitti
<pitti> bonjour didrocks! comment vas-tu?
<bryce> heya didrocks
<pitti> bryce: I reopened the BP for now
<didrocks> pitti: sehr gut, und du? :)
<didrocks> (not sure of my german though)
<pitti> didrocks: tres bien, merci!
<didrocks> :)
<pitti> didrocks: your German is perfect :)
<didrocks> pitti: ahah, if I only use few words... ;)
<pitti> bryce: want me to write some udev rules to produce sth. like on http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.freedesktop.xorg.devel/2108 ?
<bryce> pitti, sounds good
<pitti> bryce: so, I think if we are going to do this, we should do it soon, to see where the regressions are
<pitti> so how about:
<pitti> 1. apply the patch soon (by alpha-1), pitti to create udev rules for keyboard layout, etc.
<huats> morning everyone
<pitti> 2. update to new wacom driver and test it (who could do this?)
<bryce> when's alpha-1?
<pitti> 3. at alpha-3, make the call to revert (because of regressions), or keep
<pitti> ?
<pitti> bryce: hm, december 10th
<pitti> perhaps alpha-2 then
<bryce> ok that sounds more doable
<pitti> bryce: I don't think that the original patch requires 1.7 (just the new wacom does)
<pitti> but ICBW, I didn't try to apply it yet
<bryce> #2 has as pre-requisite merging in xserver 1.7 (and all of its protos and libs that it depends on)
<bryce> true the udev patch may work against what we have now for xserver
<bryce> in which case I can probably slap it in tomorrow
<pitti> bryce: does Alberto or you have a wacom device for testing?
<pitti> or Timo?
<bryce> I sent Alberto a tablet, and I've got one myself
<bryce> I think Timo has one but am not certain
<tjaalton> I have a waltop, not proper wacom
<tjaalton> and it doesn't work with the driver in karmic
<tjaalton> don't know if it ever will
<pitti> bryce: options in xorg.conf> http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.freedesktop.xorg.devel/2108
<bryce> pitti, oh -evtouch supported devices probably will also break when we move away from hal
<tjaalton> the brand name is aiptek media tablet 10000U
<pitti> bryce: oh, do we use that? at least the "fake" touchscreen in kvm is just a normal evdev mouse; we could ask ogra to check on his real touchscreen
<pitti> it's in universe, hmm
<bryce> pitti, yeah all the touchscreen stuff is in a really sorry state
<tjaalton> jcristau (the author of the udev patch) said that the only missing bit is recognizing a synaptics device
<bryce> the hal changes will just make it sorrier
<tjaalton> because now it's done by matching input.touchpad, but udev doesn't have that AIUI
<bryce> tjaalton, ogra told us in the touchscreen session that he'd fixed up -evtouch to work with hal, and added some fdi's for it
<tjaalton> bryce: I meant synaptics
<bryce> oh gotcha
<pitti> tjaalton: well, hal has to figure it out somehow, too (IIRC it looks at the types of events  it can produce and sets this capability)
<pitti> tjaalton: no reason that this bit cannot become an udev callout to set the property, if we need it
<tjaalton> pitti: right
<tjaalton> but not there yet ;)
<pitti> I can write that bit
<tjaalton> I guess that's why it's not merged upstream yet
<pitti> I'd probably just stick it into udev proper, into some extras/
<pitti> once it works
<tjaalton> what ML did you refer to where it was said to be hard to drop hal?
 * pitti tries to remember
<pitti> tjaalton: I think it was from mjg59, probably somewhere on devkit-devel@
<tjaalton> pitti: thanks, I'll check that out
<pitti> at that time I thought we didn't want to backport that stuff, and that wacom would be too big of a problem for lucid
<pitti> tjaalton: he basically said that "xorg is not ready for this yet, so we'll have to keep hal for the next cycle"
<tjaalton> wacom does it's own hotplugging now, and set's up the device according to what the kernel says it has
<pitti> yay
<bryce> tjaalton, had a chance to look at what we need to do for getting xserver 1.7 in lucid?
<tjaalton> bryce: only ~6 libs to go, then updating xorg & xorg-server
<bryce> sweet
<tjaalton> there are more libs to upload to unstable when jcristau has time (maybe tomorrow), then the rest of the proto's can go too
<tjaalton> uploading them now would make the xserver unbuildable
<tjaalton> so they need to go in at the same time
 * bryce nods
<pitti> bryce: do you know if there's a newer patch than the original one proposed by Julien in http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.freedesktop.xorg.devel/2108 ?
<bryce> hmm, not spotting it
<pitti> bryce: it's not in that thread, but there were some discussions how to improve it
<bryce> yeah
<bryce> seems not to be in git yet
<bryce> at least, not in master
<bryce> bingo http://cgit.freedesktop.org/~jcristau/xserver/
<pitti> rocking
<bryce> pitti, ^ newer stuff there
<pitti> bryce: I'm working on creating udev rules now (a default "evdev for everything" corresponding to 10-x11-input.fdi, and one for "synaptics" corresponding to 11-x11-synaptics.fdi)
<bryce> ok
<AnAnt> Hello, when I attempt to install gnome-shell (in karmic), I found that it wants to pull several -dev packages, is that a bug ?
<mac_v> AnAnt: the Ubuntu version is old , its better you use the upstream version
<AnAnt> mac_v: is there a PPA ?
<mac_v> AnAnt: hmm , there is a ppa mentioned in this thread > http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1305154 , but its pretty easy to build from upstream version itsefl
<mac_v> itself*
<mac_v> AnAnt: its just like 4 commands to install from upstream and you get the shell ;)
<AnAnt> mac_v: ok, but why does the deb package depend on -dev packages ?
<AnAnt> depend or recommend
<mac_v> AnAnt: hmm odd, it doesnt show the -dev packages as depends for me
<AnAnt> attempting to install gnome-shell says that it will install a number of -dev packages
<tseliot> pitti: please keep me informed about your progress with the udev rules for synaptics as a patch of mine in synaptics makes use of 11-x11-synaptics.fdi for setting quirks
<pitti> tseliot: I was going to transform the existing quirks to udev rules, too
<tseliot> pitti: great, I would like to see the that file when it's ready
 * tseliot is glad that we won't have to deal with corrupted fdi cache any more :-)
<mac_v> mpt: hi.. is there a blueprint for the -symbolic icons?
<mpt> mac_v, not as far as I know. If you like, you could register one with me as drafter, kwwii as assignee, and ivanka as approver
 * mac_v scratches head... needs to figure out how to draft a blueprint ;p
<mac_v> mpt: its a blueprint in xdg naming specs or...?
<seb128> good morning there
<pitti> hey seb128
<didrocks> pitti: my girlfriend has a wacom tablet, so she can test it too if you ping me.
<didrocks> hey seb128
<seb128> hey pitti didrocks
<mac_v> mpt: yay... no work for me ... there is already one , >https://blueprints.launchpad.net/icon-naming-spec/+spec/extra-icon-namespace
 * seb128 overslept
<pitti> seb128: jet lag FTW?
<seb128> sort of, I had no issue going to sleep
<seb128> but I wanted to finish syncs and it took me ages
<seb128> so I went to bed quite late and sleep through ;-)
<mpt> mac_v, cool, thanks
<didrocks> seb128: take care of having some good rest before the week-end this week :)
<seb128> lol
<mpt> good morning glatzor
<glatzor> morning mpt!
<cviorel> hi everybody!
<glatzor> sorry for saying good bye to you personally, but I haven't seen you on friday
<cviorel> I keep receiving this message during boot up: One or more of the mounts listed in /etc/fstab cannot yet be mounted:
<cviorel> on did not find a good solution on ubuntu forums
<mvo> hey glatzor
<glatzor> morning mvo
<glatzor> mvo, the sessioninstaller is nearly complete. I am currently adding the ability to install PackageKit catalogs
<mvo> glatzor: woah, sweet
 * mvo hugs glatzor
<mvo> glatzor: just give me a shout when its ready and I will package/upload
<glatzor> mvo, it isn't any rocket science. just providing simple dialogs and some basic python-apt stuff :)
<mvo> glatzor: its still sweet :)
<mvo> and useful, great to have
 * glatzor is away peeling potatoes
<pitti> bryce, tseliot: I think I figured it out; I'll mail you (and julien)
<tseliot> pitti: great, thanks
<bryce> nice
<bryce> I've got the touchscreen spec mostly drafted -- https://wiki.ubuntu.com/X/Blueprints/Touchscreen
<bryce> tseliot, btw, I also drafted up the proprietary driver spec, but you may want to review that
<tseliot> bryce: sure, I was about to ask you about that one
<bryce> tseliot, sure shoot
<tseliot> bryce: I wanted to know who would deal with that wiki page as per pitti's email. You've already given me an answer ;)
<tseliot> bryce: also, we're not going to use alternatives, are we?
<bryce> tseliot, isn't that what was decided at UDS?  Was there subsequent discussion to the contrary?
 * tseliot would be happy with a clean up and with better documentation of the packages
<tseliot> bryce: from what I remember pitti said that weird things can happen with alternatives (not that diversions are any better)
<tseliot> so I took that as a no
<tseliot> maybe I misunderstood
<bryce> tseliot, ahh, I think we addressed that concern - some of your comments resolved his worries
<bryce> guess happy pitti smiles didn't transfer through the mike
<tseliot> bryce: ah, ok so my promise about the hooks for the nvidia-installer was convincing then :-)
<bryce> yep
<pitti> hehe
<tseliot> very well
<pitti> we just make sure that the maintscripts apply enough force to not leave dangling alternatives behind
<pitti> usually the user can override the system default
<tseliot> pitti: do you mean "override" with update-alternatives?
<pitti> tseliot: I don't know alternatives handling very well; I try to stay away from it like the plague :)
<tseliot> as the nvidia-installer won't be capable of doing such things
<tseliot> pitti: diversions are not fun either, I assure you ;)
<tseliot> I'll do my best to come up with something sane this time
<tseliot> well, sane is a big word when dealing with this kind of packages...
<pitti> tseliot: good luck!
<tseliot> thanks, I'll need it ;)
<pitti> bryce: so if we really attack xorg halsectomy, I guess I should work on suspend quirks halsectomy, and dropping hal from the few remaining gnome bits :)
<bryce> *nod*
<tseliot> bryce: the wiki pages look good to me
<pitti> bryce: I mailed the udev rules and updated the whiteboard; do you see anything else which needs to be converted for a first test?
<bryce> I will try to take a look at getting jcristau's xserver patches packaged tomorrow maybe
<tseliot> pitti: would suspend quirks work with udev? This is something I will need for OEM stuff too
<pitti> tseliot: they wouldn't go into udev; Victor and I plan to put them into a text file straight into pm-utils
<pitti> nothing else uses them
<pitti> and udev is not appropriate for this kind of information
<pitti> tseliot: Victor wrote a script to convert the fdi into a simple text format
<tseliot> pitti: and what is that loads the text file so that the system knows how to suspend?
<pitti> tseliot: pm-suspend/pm-hibernate
<tseliot> yes, of course
 * bryce rotfl's at GOTO's
<pitti> so you don't need to worry about them at all any more
<pitti> it will "just happen"
<tseliot> that's good
<pitti> bryce: my initial rule was one big one, but I found that this doesn't work for some reason:
<pitti> IMPORT{parent}="ABS", ENV{ABS}=="?*"
<pitti> with two separate rules it works
<pitti> iz udev bug
<bryce> ok
<pitti> hey asac
<pitti> asac: do you still remember your pm-utils patch "90-nm-proper-wakeup.patch" which adds a --print-reply?
<asac> pitti: yes
<asac> whats up?
<pitti> asac: that's not in upstream yet; did that get forwarded upstream? or was it only a hack?
<asac> its definitly a workaround
<asac> not sure if it should go upstream
<asac> basically without --print-reply the process might exit too early and no message gets send out
<asac> afaik the --print-reply workaround was posted to the dbus mailing list
<pitti> asac: would you mind posting it to https://bugs.freedesktop.org/enter_bug.cgi?product=pm-utils ? I'd like to commit it to Debian as well, etc.
<pitti> but we shouldn't keep such hacks forever without at least having it forwarded
<asac> maybe its fixed by now
<pitti> asac: oh, it's already in Debian, too, so I'll keep it for now; but the final fate of it would still be interesting
<asac> yes
<asac> as i said. it was a bug in dbus ... which is known upstream ;)
<asac> (to dbus upstream at least)
<seb128> hey slomo
<slomo> hi seb128 :)
<seb128> slomo, do you think you could make the vala build run the testsuite and break on error?
<seb128> that's the only diff we have in ubuntu
<seb128> we could sync if debian was doing that too ;-)
<slomo> seb128: no, the testsuite fails if dbus can't be started... which is the case in some debian buildds :(
<seb128> are you sure?
<seb128> we didn't get any build issue during the karmic cycle
<seb128> though soyuz != debian buildds
<slomo> the ubuntu buildds are much more easy to handle than debian's :)
<slomo> you even have writable home directories ;)
<seb128> ok
<seb128> shame
<seb128> pitti, ^ any opinion?
<seb128> having to merge this one every time is annoying
<seb128> but making the build fail on testsuite errors was a mir requirement by security team
<seb128> I guess I should talk to kees again about this one...
<slomo> seb128: i could add something to debian/rules to only make the testsuite fatal on ubuntu
<seb128> slomo, that would be nice of you ;-)
<pitti> seb128: right, would be nice to have the test suite working
<pitti> ubuntu buildds have problems with d-bus too, though
<slomo> now i only need to wait until git.debian.org works again ;)
<pitti> slomo: hm, I have pushed several bits in the last hour
<seb128> pitti, do you know if we have a meeting today btw?
<pitti> seb128: I guess we do
<seb128> ok, thanks
<seb128> 17:30 local right?
<pitti> rightg
<seb128> cool
<slomo> pitti: works now :)
<slomo> seb128: you can sync 0.7.8-2 from debian/unstable later
<seb128> slomo, thanks!
<slomo> btw, who's responsible for pulseaudio in ubuntu? :)
<baptistemm> hello
<seb128> slomo, TheMuso and dtchen
<slomo> dtchen: are you going to enable flat volumes again for next release?
<slomo> seb128: uploaded :)
<slomo> seb128: btw, the dbus tests didn't work in my pbuilder chroot ;)
<seb128> slomo, rock on, thanks again!
<seb128> slomo, do you think flat volumes are a good idea?
<seb128> we got many bugs from confused users while it was on
<slomo> seb128: definitely a good idea, yes. and those bugs should all be fixed now, at least in every gnome/gstreamer application (it's a bit sad that nobody forwarded the gstreamer related bugs upstream though)
<pitti> what does flat-volumes do?
<seb128> pitti, I think it makes channels volume move in a sync way
<seb128> ie when you change volume you change master and pcm together
<slomo> pitti: http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/oh-nine-fifteen.html  first part
<seb128> slomo, well there is still some users or card having saturation issues
<seb128> which is probably driver or hardware issue but when you force all channels to act in a sync way you remove the ability to workaround those easily
<seb128> ok, I'm away for debugging my uncle computer
<seb128> I'm not far so feel free to call if something is needed, otherwise I should be back in 1 or 2 hours...
<pitti> did anyone actually see "[pitti away: lunch]" and "[pitti back: gone 00:39:00]"? I hope these are just local messages from my IRC client (got a major update yesterday) and they don't get echoed to the channel
<chrisccoulson> good afternoon everyone
<pitti> hey chrisccoulson
<chrisccoulson> hey pitti, how are you today?
<pitti> I'm great, how about you?
<chrisccoulson> yeah, i got quite a good night sleep last night, and enjoying my 2 weeks off work too :)
<Laney> pitti: no, no sign
<pitti> Laney: thanks
<rickspencer3> jcastro good morning
<pitti> dtchen: can you hop into #ubuntu-meeting?
<tgpraveen221> can anyone tell me in how many hours the desktop team meeting starts
<kenvandine> tgpraveen221, it was canceled for today
<seb128> re!
<seb128> so karmic 0 - win xp 2, grrrrr
<seb128> trying to install karmic on my uncle box is a fail
<ccheney`> seb128: what kind of problem?
<seb128> the first install ubiquity crashed
<seb128> there was a ntfs partition change dunno if that was due to it
<seb128> after running it again it was saying that no OS was installed
<seb128> it scared me for a moment I though it destroyed the win install
<ccheney`> oh :-(
<seb128> after reboot install worked correctly
<seb128> the first did the disk changes after all and working...
<seb128> but after reboot no grub
<ccheney`> oh, weird
<seb128> so there is a karmic installed and no way to boot it now
<seb128> I decided I spent enough time on that today
<seb128> will go back an another day
<ccheney`> ok
<ccheney`> did it have no grub but booted properly back into xp immediately?
<seb128> yes
<ccheney`> ok
<seb128> known issue?
<ccheney`> i don't know, sounds like it either didn't install or somehow installed to the linux partition instead of the mbr (if that is possible)
<seb128> there is 2 disks in the box
<seb128> karmic was installed on the second one
<ccheney`> oh ok, or a 3rd option it installed to the mbr of the second disk
<ccheney`> i haven't ever tried installing to a second hard drive before, so not sure what it tries to do in that case
<pitti> I think I did once
<pitti> and back then there was some confusion about which MBR it installs to
<pitti> seb128: next time you are at your uncle, have a look into the bios; all halfway recent BIOSes should allow you to select the hard disk order on boot
<seb128> pitti, ok thanks
<pitti> in the best case, the installer picked up the win partition and added it to grub
<seb128> otherwise is there a way to just re-do grub install?
<pitti> and all you have to do is to try booting from the second hda first
<pitti> with grub 1 there was "grub-install /dev/sda"
<pitti> and according to --help it should still work for grub 2
<pitti> but I never used it with grub 2 manually
<seb128> other story is that new ipod + ubuntu = fail ...
<seb128> not ubuntu specific
<seb128> but neither the ipod nano 5g nor the itouch works
<seb128> db changes and libgpod need changes, upstream is on it though
<seb128> and I can't get the touch to connect to wifi
<seb128> apple = fail
<pitti> rickspencer3: did you send the "team meeting cancelled" to everyone or just me?
<seb128> pitti, ok, thanks
<seb128> oh
<rickspencer3> pitti, I sent it to the list
<seb128> no team meeting?
<rickspencer3> canonical-desktop-team
<seb128> hum
<pitti> rickspencer3: I only see me in To:
<seb128> I need to filter those out somewhere
<seb128> there land in middle of thousand of launchpad bug emails
<pitti> rickspencer3: ah, through LP magic?
<rickspencer3> yes
<seb128> launchpad = noise so far for me
<pitti> weird
<rickspencer3> and then seb128 filters it out
<rickspencer3> :)
<pitti> seb128: for me it's "To: Martin Pitt <martin.pitt@ubuntu.com>", and no X-LP-Bugs: stuff
<seb128> I'm wondering if I should have 2 lp account
<seb128> one for "work" and one for bug spam
<rickspencer3> I could just recreate the list locally, but I forgot to back up my lists on evo last time I reinstalled, and the lp page is right there and so easy
 * pitti gently points seb128 to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/HowToFilter
<seb128> pitti, I've filters thanks, I just need a new one for this case
<pitti> rickspencer3: I added tseliot to that team
<seb128> I'm already putting assigned bugs, etc on the side
<rickspencer3> pitti, ok
<rickspencer3> looks like the rotations starts officially Nov 30th
 * rickspencer3 just got mail
<tseliot> right
<tseliot> I got that email too
<bryce> morning
<pitti> hey bryce
<seb128> urg, "finish merges"
<seb128> is that a "continue merges" or are those supposed to be done now?
 * seb128 still has tons of those to do
 * rickspencer3 whip cracking noises
<pitti> seb128: there's no immediate deadline for it
<pitti> seb128: it was just a gentle reminder "those still exist, too" :)
<pitti> but this week, drafting blueprints has higher urgency
<seb128> the after sprint+uds stack of tasks is exiting and depressing... ;-)
<pitti> I hope that was meant to mean "exciting" :)
 * pitti hugs seb128
 * seb128 hugs pitti
<seb128> not sure, add this to the burn-out chart ;-)
<pitti> lol
<bryce> seb128, agreed
 * seb128 kicks launchpad
<seb128> stop sending me a zillion email each time somebody runs apport-collect
<seb128> 21 emails by run
<seb128> it's ridiculous...
<pitti> rickspencer3: ^ how many "whip crack noises" should we account for every assignee on the burn-out chart?
<seb128> pitti, could be tar.gz those on client side...?
<rickspencer3> hehe
<pitti> seb128: in theory yes, but that woudl make them even less convenient to look at?
<seb128> I guess it will make people complain about that making thoses harder to review though
 * pitti wants those condensed in one mail
<pitti> but fortunately there is a "delete thread" key in mutt
 * seb128 too
<seb128> well, I don't want to delete the thread
<seb128> I use my bugboxes archive to find bugs
<seb128> quicker than using web search
<bryce> pitti, it would be lovely if the apport-collect emails had some text or tag we could make procmail rules for to exclude them...
<bryce> although I admit I've pretty much given up on my bug inbox
<bryce> hmm, no meeting today? or did daylight savings get me again?
<pitti> -        bug.addAttachment(comment='',
<pitti> +        bug.addAttachment(comment='apport-collect data',
<pitti> bryce: ^ like so?
<pitti> bryce: meeting was cancelled, see Rick's recent mail
<bryce> pitti, yeah
<pitti> bryce: it's not a mail subject, though
<pitti> so you have to filter on the body
<pitti> addAttachment() doesn't have a subject field
<bryce> pitti, yeah that would be better but body filtering is doable
<bryce> erf, wish I'd known the meeting was canceled, I'd have not gotten up early ;-)
<pitti> bryce: committed
<bryce> sweet
<bryce> seb128, ^^ there you go
<bryce> # Notifications of apport data collection
<bryce> :0 B:
<bryce> * ^apport-collect data$
<bryce> launchpad.apport
<bryce> haven't tested it, but think that's the right procmail rule for this
<pitti> hm, I guess what you really want is to get the first one in your regular bug mailbox
<pitti> and all others to /dev/null
<pitti> so perhaps the first one should have a different comment?
<bryce> yeah
<pitti> at least I want to know that people added new info
<pitti> oh, hang on
<pitti>     print'   short text data...'
<pitti>     bug.newMessage(content=part.get_payload(decode=True),
<pitti>         subject='apport-collect data')
<pitti> that would be it
<pitti> you can just look for "Subject: apport-collect data" and route that to your regular bug mailbox
<pitti> (already there, in karmic)
<pitti> and change above rule to /dev/null
<pitti> just don't overdo it, otherwise you'll get "/dev/null: No space left on device" :)
<bryce> pitti, I got one of those usb dongles that expands your /dev/null space
<pitti> I saw those next to the subspace radio transmitters at Fry's, but they were sold out
<bryce> they're quite handy - when it fills I just throw it in the trash and buy a new one
<kenvandine> pitti, does your workitems script scrape all blueprints for lucid or specific ones related to desktop?
<pitti> kenvandine: lucid-targetted ones which match the pattern desktop-lucid-*
<pitti> (the pattern is configurable, of course)
<kenvandine> ok, should we add dx and ubuntuone?
<kenvandine> the plan is to have workitems in those blueprints for tasks that affect the desktop team
<pitti> should they appear on the desktop team's chart, or get their own reports/
<pitti> ?
<kenvandine> i think our chart
<kenvandine> but might be cool to have separate reports
<kenvandine> so we can track each team seperately
<kenvandine> and aggregate that into a toplevel burndown
<pitti> I think so, too
<seb128> kenvandine, I did a list of dxteam tasks already
<kenvandine> as work items?
<seb128> kenvandine, based on the sprint week, I emailed it to pitti and rickspencer3
<seb128> yes
<kenvandine> dbarth said he would have all their work items in by end of next week
<rickspencer3> kenvandine, yes, but we have some work items as well
<seb128> well, that was sort of why I intended the sprint
<seb128> oh
<seb128> my list is desktop team side
<seb128> no dxteam side
<kenvandine> right
<kenvandine> we want to track dxteam and u1 for tasks that will affect the desktop
<seb128> ie "get new packages in lucid, patches nn softwares for indicators changes, etc"
<kenvandine> even if they are doing the work
<seb128> ok
<seb128> I didn't do that
<jtholmes> anyone know of a double layer or blue ray dvd that will work well with 9.10
<seb128> pitti, good to see new uploader approvals but when will those be effective?
<pitti> seb128: for these three they are already
<seb128> and ubuntu-desktop?
<pitti> I still don't know how to set those
<seb128> not that having Amaranth uploading compiz is not great
<seb128> but I want chrisccoulson and didrocks uploads
<seb128> that would reduce our sponsoring load a lot
<seb128> ok
<seb128> is somebody else going to look at those?
<pitti> $ ./edit_acl.py -p ubuntu-desktop query
<pitti> == All rights for ubuntu-desktop ==
<pitti> Archive Upload Rights for ubuntu-desktop: package set 'ubuntu-desktop' in karmic
<pitti> Archive Upload Rights for ubuntu-desktop: package set 'ubuntu-desktop' in lucid
<pitti> seb128: cjwatson is
<pitti> but I wonder if above output doesn't mean that it already works
<pitti> someone could try?
<seb128> oh, maybe it works
<seb128> same
<seb128> chrisccoulson, didrocks: ^
<seb128> pitti, thanks
<pitti> mythbuntu-dev and kubuntu-dev are displayed to work, too
<pitti> kenvandine: so if you have something to upload, please try
<kenvandine> i don't at the moment
<pitti> same result for "./edit_acl.py -p ken-vandine query"
<pitti> so, upload away :)
<kenvandine> :)
<kenvandine> upload with dput? or is there some magic tool?
<pitti> kenvandine: just like into ppas, just not with "dput ppa" :)
<kenvandine> ok
<kenvandine> cool
 * pitti pulls desktop bzr trees to see whether there's something UNRELEASED
<seb128> there is ton of updates and merges to do
<pitti> rickspencer3: you know that this means that you now have unrestricted GNOME upload rights :)
<seb128> easy to pick one ;-)
<pitti> rock'n'roll
<rickspencer3> chouette
 * rickspencer3 uploads lolz
<chrisccoulson> seb128 / pitti - thanks
<seb128> pitti, we need to be careful, GNOME might be switched to quickly over night
<chrisccoulson> i need to start doing 2.29 merges soon :)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, ;-)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, how are you and your family doing?
<seb128> the mother and baby are back already?
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - good thanks. we had our first trip together to the supermarket today
<chrisccoulson> which was quite a lot of hassle!
<seb128> nice ;-)
<kenvandine> hehe
<kenvandine> chrisccoulson, i remember that
<seb128> so now you can say goodbye to sleep
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - yeah, i think i said goodbye to that quite a while ago ;)
<seb128> hehehe
<chrisccoulson> i'm sleeping occasionally in the daytime at the moment, when the baby sleeps
<chrisccoulson> but i can't really get used to that!
<bryce> chrisccoulson, congrats!
<chrisccoulson> bryce - thanks:)
<pitti> wow, asac is fast -- http://piware.de/workitems/mobile/lucid/report.html
<bryce> chrisccoulson, boy or girl?
<chrisccoulson> bryce - girl, 8lb 1oz
<seb128> you guys should really use metric systems ;-)
<bryce> chrisccoulson, nice :-)
<chrisccoulson> heh, i'm too used to imperial ;)
<bryce> seb128, 0.123 m^3
 * seb128 sights
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - she weighs 3.656 kg ;)
<seb128> I was just looking for an online converter
<seb128> that speaks to me now, thanks ;-)
<pitti> http://www.google.com/search?q=8lb+1oz+in+kg
<chrisccoulson> i didn't know how much she was in kg until i just worked it out there
<chrisccoulson> that means she is lighter than our cat!
<bryce> chrisccoulson, last night our 3 mo old boy slept from 10pm to 7am, after eating 6oz (~180ml).  A record!
<chrisccoulson> bryce - i bet you're quite pleased about that!
<bryce> my son was 6lb 8oz at birth, a little guy.  But he picked up weight and is almost 11lb now
<bryce> chrisccoulson, well I wear ear plugs, so...  ;-)
<bryce> mama was happy tho!
<chrisccoulson> our girl feeds for about an hour, then we change her nappy and try and put her to bed, but she screams the house down and the whole cycle starts again ;)
<chrisccoulson> then she sleeps from about 7am
<chrisccoulson> although, she slept for 2 hours last night
<bryce> chrisccoulson, yeah good burping is the key
<bryce> chrisccoulson, for us, wrapping him up tightly in a blanket helped a lot to get him to rest
<bryce> hmm, probably we need #ubuntu-babies ;-)
<chrisccoulson> heh, we might try that, but she was already quite hot last night
<bryce> ok back to bug mail
<chrisccoulson> i should probably turn our heating system down a little
<bryce> chrisccoulson, http://www.thehappiestbaby.com/
<chrisccoulson> thanks, i'll have a look at that later ;)
 * dobey needs a superior python hacker's brain to pick
<and471> mvo : hello
<and471> mac_v :hi there
<dobey> kenvandine: ping
<seb128> hum
<dobey> hi seb128
<seb128> seahorse agent seems to not be used in lucid
<seb128> hey dobey, had a good trip back?
<dobey> yeah. no delays or anything :)
<kenvandine> dobey, hey
<dobey> and i upgraded the second leg of my flight to first class :)
<kenvandine> nice
<dobey> and gave the guy next to me a karmic cd
<dobey> kenvandine: hey, since i know you're in my timezone... can you teach me how to get a debdiff between two revisions of a package?
<seb128> debdiff old.dsc new.dsc
<dobey> ah
<dobey> cool beans
<kenvandine> what seb128 said :)
<dobey> also
<dobey> does my last comment in bug 487710 make sense to you guys?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 487710 in ubuntuone-client "Missing dependency on gnome-keyring" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/487710
<kenvandine> dobey, if it depends on it to run
<kenvandine> it should be a depends imho
<kenvandine> which might not be great for other desktop environments
<kenvandine> i would rather have u1-client drag in a bunch of deps and function than blow up
<dobey> kenvandine: well i'd raher fix the dependencies properly. we depend on the library, which depends on the daemon, so the library dependency seems wrong to me
<kenvandine> maybe
<kenvandine> is there ever a case where the library is used without a daemon?
<dobey> i don't think so
<dobey> the library is basically just wrapping the protocol
<kenvandine> i would think so
<seb128> dobey, could the code just say "no gnome-keyring fallback to other method"?
<pitti> rickspencer3: work item stuff set up, wikified, and announced; please let me know if something still doesn't work for you
<dobey> seb128: for lucid we're going to move to python-keyring which abstracts the keyring stuff out, and works with gnome-keyring, kwallet, osx, and win, and a couple other storage formats
<rickspencer3> pitti, ok .. but I can't promise I'll get to it today... might have to wait until Monday
<pitti> rickspencer3: sure, no hurry
<rickspencer3> pitti, is there something specific that it would help if I looked at it today?
<pitti> rickspencer3: no, just making sure that I covered everything you need
<seb128> dobey, what I'm saying is that you might have case for libgnome-keyring being used and no gnome-keyring running
<dobey> seb128: so i'm not sure how we'll express that exactly in the packaging, but looking at the deps in karmic, they seem wrong anyway
<rickspencer3> thanks pitti
<seb128> if you can check for that a runtime
 * rickspencer3 is typing as fast as possible
<pitti> rickspencer3: we have by-milestone tracking, assignees, and documentation how to move WIs into different phases on the whiteboard
<rickspencer3> schweet
<dobey> seb128: yes, but that gives a different error, and really, it should be getting activated by dbus
<rickspencer3> pitti, as usual, you did an awesome job ... thanks
<rickspencer3> (I can confidently say without even looking ;) )
<kenvandine> dobey, but you  can see that it fails to fire with dbus and handle that exception
<kenvandine> not sure what the fallback should be
<dobey> the fallback would be "fail"
<dobey> and that is much less of a concern to me right now :)
<pitti> rickspencer3: eww, pitivi needs hal, too? *sigh*
<rickspencer3> oh?
<rickspencer3> to detect video cameras?
<pitti> presumably
 * rickspencer3 notes that pitti has it out for pitivi
<pitti> just responded to the bug :)
<rickspencer3> I think we should *not* deliver anything new that relies on hal
<rickspencer3> like, isn't that exactly the opposite direction we are trying to go?
 * pitti -> dinner
<pitti> rickspencer3: right
<pitti> rickspencer3: well, we can change hal to start on demand instead of on boot
<kenvandine> i bet we can get that fixed
<pitti> that will take out most concerns
<rickspencer3> hmm
<pitti> but I suppose it should be easy to port it
<rickspencer3> right, but I think if distros are moving away from HAL, now is probably a good time to get pitivi fixed anyway
<rickspencer3> pitti, can you please just rewrite the code real quick before you go for dinner?
<rickspencer3> j/k
<rickspencer3> I need a break, that wasn;t even funny
 * rickspencer3 goes to get some lunch
<seb128> re
<seb128> dobey, did you get my comment before?
<seb128> dobey, in any case python-gnomekeyring should at least use a Recommends
<dobey> i guess i didn't get your comment, no
<dobey> but i don't think it's at all useful without gnome-keyring installed
<dobey> as i understand it, uninstalling something from a Suggests/Recommends should in no way break the thing that lists that dependency
<seb128> " which would make gnome-keyring installed by default
<seb128>  not sure between Depends or Recommends
<seb128>  ie I'm not sure if some software might use gnome-keyring but fallback if it's not running in which case the user might be able to stop the daemon..."
<seb128> " which would make gnome-keyring installed by default
<seb128>  not sure between Depends or Recommends
<seb128>  ie I'm not sure if some software might use gnome-keyring but fallback if it's not running in which case the user might be able to stop the daemon..."
<seb128> dobey, ^
<dobey> seb128: well, i'm not sure what cases do a fallback AND require that libgnome-keyring0 be installed and used, though
<seb128> well has libgnome-keyring an api to know if gnome-keyring is running?
<seb128> libtracker for example doesn't require tracker to run
<seb128> it's up to application to be smart about the service running or not
<seb128> in which case a Recommends = install by default but let user able to opt out is correct
<dobey> if the application itself has to do extra things to handle that, the API is wrong, or the developer doesn't want to depend on the keyring, and is doing something else anyway if the library isn't there
<dobey> tracker isn't a vital system service (yet)
<dobey> gnome-keyring is
<seb128> you can't uninstall a library you built again
<seb128> ld will be really unhappy and you software will not run...
<seb128> I agree that in 99% of cases you want gnome-keyring running
<seb128> I've seen subversion has a counter example today though
<seb128> they have code using gnome-keyring or fallbacking to text storage otherwise
<seb128> Recommends should be enough it will install it by default
<dobey> hrmm?
<seb128> which mean only user who decide to remove gnome-keyring can complain
<seb128> and that would be their fault
<dobey> if you want to depend on the keyring NOT being available, then you need to dlopen() the library, and fall back gracefully
<dobey> which is what python does
<dobey> well it's already installed by default
<seb128> no
<seb128> it's installed by default on ubuntu
<dobey> it's installed by default if you install python-ubuntuone-client
<seb128> but having a recommends would mean that anybody installing python-gnomekeyring would get gnome-keyring
<dobey> because it depends on python-gnomekeyring, which depends on libgnome-keyring0, which recommends gnome-keyring
<seb128> ok
<seb128> so your bug is notabug
<dobey> or do recommends only get handled for the requested package?
<seb128> if somebody decide to remove recommends it's their fault
<seb128> to be honest I've no strong opinion
<seb128> we can add a strong depends in lucid
<seb128> and wait to see who complains
<bryce> pitti, btw desktop-lucid-xorg-driver-selection-for-nvidia-hardware needs added to our list of stuff to do for lucid
<bryce> pitti, it's a deferred blueprint from karmic, but came out as a requirement from the KMS session
<dobey> seb128: ok. i'll look into it
<kenvandine> seb128, the gnome-keyring issue with python-ubuntuone-client isn't really a problem for ubuntu-desktop, but kubuntu and others that don't include gnome-keyring by default
<kenvandine> so having the depends would ensure it works
<seb128> kenvandine, right, still trying to figure if the lib should depends or recommends the server though
<kenvandine> ok
<seb128> ie there is a case for libgnome-keyring being used but optional
<seb128> like if (keyring_running) use it; or use other method to store...
<pitti> rickspencer3: heh; well, I suppose it's some two hours of work to port it
<pitti> bryce: did you really mean to assign that one to me?
<seb128> oh, we can assign specs to pitti? ;-)
<pitti> seb128: technically yes, I just don't think it will help much, given my existing workload :)
<bryce> pitti, oops
<seb128> pitti, no fun if that doesn't me you are going to fix those
<bryce> pitti, I only read the first letter of words apparently
<seb128> pitti, I was going to assign you the "make gnome boot in 0.3 seconds" spec now ;-)
 * seb128 hugs pitti
<pitti> seb128: sure, I'll make it 0.1 seconds, and add a sleep 0.2
<seb128> anyway enough trolling, time for dinner
<pitti> seb128: enjoy!
<seb128> thanks
<pitti> bryce: ah, approver?
<seb128> bbl
<bryce> pitti, ahh I see the problem - on the blueprint view page it lists Approver / Drafter / Assignee.  When you click edit, the edit page lists them in the reverse order Assignee / Drafter / Approver
<pitti> usability bug! papercut!
<bryce> those insidious launchpad guys strike again
<bryce> heh, if only anyone would look at blueprint bug reports
<bryce> pitti, anyway fixed
<bryce> pitti, I don't know if we have a blueprint for tracking the boot performance stuff but I updated the status for work items at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/BootPerformance/Lucid/X
<pitti> bryce: we'll use the wiki page from foundations, yes
<pitti> it already has desktop bits
<didrocks> seb128: I've uploaded the vino merge. Let's see if I will be striken by thunder... hum no... denied permission :)
 * pitti crosses fingers
<didrocks> kicked off :(
<pitti> rejected?
<didrocks> yeah
<pitti> "kick off" == "start", doesn't it?
<didrocks> hum, I used this word the wrong way so
<didrocks> "Signer is not permitted to upload to the component 'main'."
<pitti> meh
<didrocks> I should run for core dev someday. It will be easierâ¦
<pitti> but this is supposed to work
<didrocks> is vino seeded in the desktop track?
<pitti> $ ./edit_acl.py -p didrocks query
<pitti> Archive Upload Rights for ubuntu-desktop: package set 'ubuntu-desktop' in karmic
<pitti> Archive Upload Rights for ubuntu-desktop: package set 'ubuntu-desktop' in lucid
<pitti> didrocks: it certainly should, but I don't know how to check
<bryce> haha we can replace gimp with `firefox http://pixlr.com/editor/` ;-) ;-)
<pitti> == All uploaders for package 'vino' ==
<pitti> Archive Upload Rights for ubuntu-core-dev: package set 'ubuntu-desktop' in karmic
<pitti> Archive Upload Rights for ubuntu-desktop: package set 'ubuntu-desktop' in karmic
<pitti> didrocks: in theeeeeeory it should work
<pitti> didrocks: mind forwarding the reject to cjwatson and ask about it?
<didrocks> pitti: no pb, doing it now
<bryce> hmm actually that works pretty good for redeye removal
<didrocks> pitti: sent, let's wait :)
<didrocks> I've pushed the bzr branch during this time
<pitti> didrocks: colin is on holiday this week
<seb128> bryce, f-spot does that too now
<seb128> pitti, he was around today so he might reply when passing by
<seb128> pitti, no hurry anyway
<didrocks> we'll seeâ¦
<seb128> didrocks, you bother doing ... in utf now? ;-)
<didrocks> seb128: always when I'm on my GNU/Linux computers (ie not at work ;))
<didrocks> seb128: only huats is always using Â« ... Â» :)
<seb128> how do you do it?
<didrocks> seb128: with the default French keyboard: Shift + Altgr + ,
<seb128> doesn't work there...
<didrocks> seb128: which keyboard setup do you have?
<didrocks> Â« France Autre Â» ?
<seb128> didrocks, ok works now
<seb128> I had France without autre
<didrocks> oh, ok :)
<bryce> seb128, does f-spot have the 'pinch' functionality?
<didrocks> you can also use AltGr + W and AltGr + X to get true Â« Â» :)
<seb128> bryce, what pinch does?
<bryce> seb128, hard to explain... "double-chin remover" is maybe a better description ;-)
<seb128> ok, I guess f-spot doesn't have that
<seb128> it has those: crop; red-eyes reduction; desaturation; sepia tone; straighten; soft focus; auto color; adjust colors
<mannyv> seb128, the tomboy merge FTBFS
<seb128> I've noticed
<seb128> I'm doing the 1.1.0 update now
<seb128> I will have a look to that too
<mannyv> i ran interdif on the patch i submitted and the one on launchpad
<mannyv> i think part of the patch was missing
<mannyv> http://pastebin.com/f1a2d451d
<mannyv> there is the interdiff
<mannyv> the dirs file got deleted from the patch
<mannyv> its all the way at the bottom
<seb128> ok
<seb128> it's all fixed in bzr already
<seb128> I forgot to bzr add the new ones...
<seb128> the changelog change is normal
<seb128> there is no point to keep tons of old changelog
<seb128> doing the summary in the new version is enough
<mannyv> ok that is good to know
<seb128> mannyv, sorry about that
<seb128> mannyv, http://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Bzr is worth reading too...
<seb128> mannyv, http://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Bzr is worth reading too...
<seb128> it has details on how to use bzr for packaging
<seb128> it makes easier to merge your changes
<mannyv> so on merges  if it is in bzr you want me to merge it that way?
<seb128> as you want
<seb128> it makes work easier but debdiff works too
<mannyv> i had one question about that, it says to commit every change. Does that mean if in the merge i change debian/rules and debian/changelog, and add delete a patch those will be 3 different commits?
<seb128> I've no strong opinion on that
<seb128> I would tend to say that upgrades or merges are easy enough to be one commit
<seb128> then if sponsor has comments you do an another update
<seb128> and reviewing the change is just reading that new commit
<seb128> which is easier than dealing with debdiffs stacked
<mannyv> ok
<pitti> good night everyone
<seb128> 'night pitti
<Amaranth> hmm, compiz upload rights
 * Amaranth prepares an 0.9 git snapshot
 * Amaranth runs
 * TheMuso looks at Amaranth. You have upload privileges, not upload rights. We all earn the privilege to upload to Ubuntu without someone looking over our shoulder. :p
<rickspencer3>  robert_ancell TheMuso good morning
<rickspencer3> did you get the email to the effect that there's no Eastern Edition today?
<robert_ancell> rickspencer3, hey, sure did
<seb128> hey robert_ancell
<robert_ancell> seb128, hey
<seb128> robert_ancell, how are you doing? managed to get over jetlag?
<robert_ancell> seb128, hasn't been bad this time :)
<seb128> good ;-)
<seb128> still no news from eom guys?
<robert_ancell> HR says change over on the 30th
<seb128> ok, good
<seb128> still one week to get desktop work done ;-)
 * seb128 points robert_ancell to the topic for updates, etc
<robert_ancell> yeah, that's the plan :)
<TheMuso> rickspencer3: Yes, thanks.
#ubuntu-desktop 2009-11-25
<rickspencer3> robert_ancell, how is your scanner app coming along?
<robert_ancell> rickspencer3, good, I spent monday's swap day adding multi page supprot
<rickspencer3> oooh
<rickspencer3> so are you think replacing xsane in Lucid?
<robert_ancell> that is the plan :)
<robert_ancell> at least try it in the alphas and see what the feedback is
<robert_ancell> hopefully get some user testing done if the design team has the time for it...
<dtchen> rickspencer3: hi, I've been pinged about reenabling flat volumes for 10.04. What are your thoughts?
<rickspencer3> dtchen, I need to educate myself before I offer an opinion
<rickspencer3> apparantly the feedback from users about that was not so good, thus the disabling
<dtchen> rickspencer3: yes, confusion and all, but upstream PA is convinced that the misperception can be overcome by reading
<rickspencer3> reading?
<rickspencer3> you mean users reading documentation?
<dtchen> yes
<rickspencer3> uh
<rickspencer3> has anyone ever watched a user use a computer?
<rickspencer3> I mean no disrespect to upstream or to users ...
<rickspencer3> but in my experience, users do not read
<rickspencer3> they want to learn by doing, and if they can't learn something by using it, they consider it "crap"
<rickspencer3> dtchen, what is your opinion, if you don't mind me asking?
<dtchen> yes, sadly that part is pretty obvious given the amount of heat I've received across the blogosphere. Mostly FUD, but heat nonetheless.
<dtchen> rickspencer3: personally it's useful but really relies on a perfect convergence of good (hardware|drivers)
<dtchen> rickspencer3: slomo pinged me in here about it; I'd like to get his opinion about it, too
<rickspencer3> dtchen, pulseaudio is working quite well for me in Karmic
<dtchen> you've been lucky :-)
<rickspencer3> heh
<rickspencer3> dtchen, btw, don't worry about haters on the Internet
<rickspencer3> I sure take plenty of heat from them, I can't help noticing how many people *don't* actually contribute
<rickspencer3> but feel they know an aweful lot about delivering a distro
<rickspencer3> ;)
<dtchen> oh certainly. It just ends up feeding back into upstream's misperceptions, although Luke and I have been pushing back a lot harder these days.
<rickspencer3> good
<rickspencer3> in any case, if flat volumes requires a perfect alignment of hardware and drivers, and you don't see that happening, I don't see how we can commit to shipping it
<rickspencer3> oth, if we want to turn it on for a while soonish and see what feedback we get, this would be the right time in the cycle to discuss that
<TheMuso> I agree 100% with users not bothering to read documentation.
<rickspencer3> hi all, I'm moments away from logging off until next Monday
<rickspencer3> TheMuso, robert_ancell feel free to call if something comes up, probably wont' be online much
<robert_ancell> rickspencer3, have a good time off!
<rickspencer3> robert_ancell, thanks, it's much needed!
 * rickspencer3 will look for new scanner tool on Monday
<rickspencer3> (only half joking)
<rickspencer3> robert_ancell, it occurs to me that time for expense reports is next week, good chance to get lots of canonical folks o try your scanner tool
<robert_ancell> rickspencer3, good idea
<pitti> Good morning
<didrocks> Hello pitti
<pitti> bonjour
<huats> morning
<didrocks> morning huats
<didrocks> pitti: do you have any pointers on your straciatella session work (for guest session, I guess)? I want to work on the desktop UNE session
<pitti> didrocks: guest and stracciatalla are quite different concepts; for UNE you probably want to look at the stracciatella one
<pitti> didrocks: pointers> not really, except for the source package itself; it should be quite obvious, though
<pitti> it's by and large a .desktop file
<didrocks> pitti: ok, I'm looking at the source package right now. Very similar to what I had in mind
<pitti> and a new session script which wraps gnome-session with an env var
<pitti> does UNE use gnome-session as well?
<pitti> or has its own session program?
<vuntz> lalala
<didrocks> pitti: not sure. At first glance, it should use gnome-session but I need to confirm first (building a VM right now)
<pitti> if g-s, we probably need to change gnome-session package itself and make its .desktop files test the session type
<didrocks> hey vuntz!
<pitti> bonjour vuntz, comment vas-tu?
<didrocks> pitti: ok
<vuntz> pitti: long hacking night, with some satisfying code in the end :-)
<pitti> good!
<didrocks> gnome-panel? :)
<pitti> erm, I meant, "tres bien!"
<vuntz> pitti: what do you mean with "make its .desktop files test the session type" ?
<vuntz> didrocks: nah, some opensuse stuff
<pitti> vuntz: like, don't start a panel or nautilus in a netbook session
<pitti> those are started by g-s from gconf keys right now, right?
<vuntz> ah, it's just a matter of having other desktop files providing Panel and whatever nautilus uses
<pitti> and some others are autostart .desktop files
<vuntz> X-GNOME-Provides=filemanager
<vuntz> so just drop somewhere a .desktop file with X-GNOME-Provides=filemanager;panel; and voilÃ !
<vuntz> (as long as the .desktop file is in a directory with a higher priority than /usr/share/applications)
 * didrocks gives a try and will ping pitti and vuntz when needed :)
<pitti> yay
<mac_v> hi.. why is the winbind package not installed by default?
<mac_v> there is a bug filed for that , any specific reasons?
 * mac_v wonders if everyone is still on US time ;)
<seb128> US people probably
<pitti> well, it's not really necessary to have by default
<seb128> hello pitti
 * pitti waves to seb128
<seb128> pitti, is seahorse-agent working for you in lucid?
<pitti> yes, apparently
<seb128> ok
<seb128> weird
<pitti> well, I didn't reboot/restart after today's dist-upgrade yet
<seb128> it's not working since uds there
<seb128> I get a pinentry dialog
<seb128> ie
<seb128> env | grep GPG -> gpg-agent
<seb128> not seahorse
<pitti> apparnetly you have gnupg2 installed?
<seb128> and the thing doesn't keep the token for my session
<seb128> but for half an hour or something
<seb128> indeed
<seb128> it was installed in karmic too
<mac_v> seb128: could you translate > Bug 487980 , Bug 487986 ... or comment on the bug asking the reporter to edit the bug in english...   I'm not sure If i reply in english he/she would understand :)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 487980 in hundredpapercuts "Ubuntu 9.10 KK: Interfaz demasiado grande..." [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/487980
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 487986 in hundredpapercuts "Ubuntu 9.10 KK: Emulador de Nintendo presenta fallas en sonido" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/487986
<seb128> mac_v, it's not a language that I speak...
<mac_v> seb128: oh.. it thought that was french... ah , nvm ;)
<seb128> mac_v, no it's not ;-)
<mac_v> lol... my french has *not* deteriorated ... i thought i had forgotten so much i couldnt understand a word ;p
<seb128> pitti, do we still need to have user stories, etc in specs?
<pitti> seb128: I don't care about them for most specs, where the rationale is obvious
<seb128> ok thanks
<pitti> like, desktop startup speed> forget it
<seb128> I hate writing those when the purpose is clear
<seb128> thanks
<pitti> seb128: I am still interested in them for e. g. a rhythmbox -> banshee switch
<pitti> because there it matters for justification
<seb128> right
<seb128> pitti, doh, sorry for the user stories question before
<pitti> ?
<seb128> I'm just reading your email now and you were quicker than me again ;-)
<pitti> hah
 * pitti changes his performance review to "answers questions before seb128 can raise them"
<seb128> ;-)
 * seb128 hugs pitti
<seb128> pitti, spec ready for review = review or pending approval?
<pitti> either
<seb128> the "definition" for the blueprint
<seb128> ok, I set it to review
<seb128> pitti, https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-lucid-gnome-geoclue on your plate, I've drafted it for records but it's off map already for lucid...
<seb128> desrt played with geoclue at uds and it's not ready
<pitti> ok, thanks; I'll put it off the lucid list then
<seb128> pitti, thanks
<seb128> pitti, should I bother drafting the gnome3 one? it has been a discussion about GNOME changes coming this cycle and what we do for those
<seb128> pitti, ie it's "informational"
<seb128> I can write the record in the whiteboard but I don't fancy writing a wiki page for nothing
<pitti> seb128: are there any work items for us in this cycle?
<seb128> no
<pitti> don't bother then
<seb128> it's decisions on versions we will use
<pitti> that sounds like work items :)
<seb128> and some note about where we need to be careful
<pitti> package version foo:
<pitti> but still doesn't require a wiki page
<seb128> package GNOME 2.30 for everything but...
<pitti> so having just a list of things to watch out for/do seems sufficient
<seb128> ok thanks
<seb128> I will just use the whiteboard for this one
<pitti> in general, keep it as simple as possible :)
<seb128> I like that ;-)
<asac> TheMuso: dtchen: where is the pulse packaging branch located?
<asac> the core-dev one seems to be out of date?
<seb128> didrocks, there?
<seb128> pitti, about https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-lucid-compiz-effects
<seb128> pitti, do we need a real blueprint wiki, or is https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lucid/CompizDefaults good enough?
<pitti> seb128: fine for me, but it's not pointing out what to do for lucid; these would need to become work items (which we need anyway)
<pitti> so, that plus WIs -> good
<seb128> pitti, I've added the wis to the whiteboard already ;-)
<pitti> hm, what are djsiegels's settings?
<seb128> pitti, the bzr just before in the whiteboard
<pitti> I see
<seb128> it's basically a collection of gconf settings
<pitti> can I assign that spec to you?
<seb128> sure
<pitti> approved then
<pitti> seb128: btw, https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-lucid-default-apps is ready for review, too :)
<seb128> pitti, thanks
<didrocks> seb128: here now :)
<seb128> didrocks, do you want to be drafter for une session?
<seb128> I saw you started on the wikipage
<seb128> I'm drafter on the blueprint now but I'm happy to change that to you
<didrocks> seb128: I can do it if you want as I'll certainly implement it
<didrocks> should be quickly done
<seb128> didrocks, thanks
<didrocks> y/w
<seb128> didrocks, not sure how busy you will be in the next weeks, should somebody take over your merges for lucid?
<seb128> ie I was looking at clutter-1.0 yeasterday
<seb128> should be easy, but it would be nice to send your change to the bts
<didrocks> seb128: yeah, I prefer to focus on UNE session first if you don't mind and I'll have not so much time next week
<seb128> ok
<didrocks> thanks :)
<didrocks> seb128: I still can do those on universe, but for main/desktop set, as I don't still don't have any access, waiting for cjwaston's answer, it's more a waste of time to ask you to sponsor them, that's why I think it's better not waiting for me :)
<seb128> didrocks, sponsoring is easy nowadays, I only debsign and upload for oyu
<seb128> you
<seb128> but if you are busy I can handle those no worry
<didrocks> seb128: I'll ping you if I have some time to do it. The only one you can sponsor is vino as it was my testcase for upload right yesterday
<seb128> I didn't sponsor it on purpose, keeping it as a testcase
<didrocks> ok :)
<asac> TheMuso: there?
<mvo> seb128: is there something like gconftool --dump --only-if-different-from-schema-default?
<seb128> mvo, not that I know about no
<mvo> hm, ok. I check what I can do with python
<seb128> mvo, trying to backup compiz settings?
<seb128> mvo, reading .gconf/apps/something is sort of doing that
<mvo> seb128: yes, well, sort-of. first trying to get a diff from the ones we currently use compared to the ones that djsiegel has
<seb128> mvo, gconftool-2 --config-source=xml:readonly:/home/mvo/.gconf --dump /apps/compiz
<seb128> mvo, gconftool-2 --config-source=xml:readonly:/home/mvo/.gconf --dump /apps/compiz, try that one
<mvo> seb128: cool, will do
<seb128> mvo, well, that will read user changes
<seb128> so that might not do the "if user_value != default_value"
<seb128> but that's the best idea I've right now
<mvo> yeah, it gives me too much. I try some gconf python now
<tseliot> pitti: I've replied to your questions in the proprietary drivers spec. Feel free to move my answers to another place if you find their position to be confusing
<pitti> tseliot: thanks
<tseliot> np
<mac_v> mvo: if backing up your compiz profile is the only thing you are looking for , you could do it , using ccsm
<pitti> she
<pitti> didrocks: oh, cool:
<pitti> Archive Upload Rights for ubuntu-desktop: package set 'ubuntu-desktop' in lucid
<pitti> the "lucid" one was missing yesterday
<pitti> does it work now?
<seb128> chrisccoulson, do you fancy try upload rights?
<seb128> should be working now, not sure if you have anything to upload though
<kklimonda> is archive reorganization scheduled for this cycle?
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - i can try it, but i need to find something to upload first
<seb128> chrisccoulson, don't bother if you don't have anything pending, next time you have something
<seb128> chrisccoulson, bug #487224 maybe
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 487224 in gnome-power-manager "Depends on notification-daemon but should Recommends instead" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/487224
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - yeah, i can try that
<chrisccoulson> i really need to start doing some merges tonight really
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - my g-p-m upload was accepted
<seb128> pitti, I guess what you are interested in for startup time is work items, right?
<seb128> chrisccoulson, rock on!
<seb128> \o/
<pitti> chrisccoulson: yay!!
<seb128> chrisccoulson, didrocks, kenvandine: you can upload
<pitti> seb128: sure
<pitti> and Robert, too
<seb128> pitti, ok, ready to review for you then
<slomo> seb128: did you sync vala already? also, why is it in main? is something in main depending on it already or just because it's nice to have? :)
<seb128> pitti, yes, he's not around though, I will tell him tonight when he joins
<pitti> seb128: I didn't take a look at the foundations wiki page yet; it has some desktop-ish bits, too, right?
<seb128> slomo, not yet, will do that now, it's not in main but there was some mir because things want to build-dep on it
<kenvandine> seb128, cool, thx!
<pitti> slomo: it's not?
<pitti> there's an approved MIR for it, but it won't get promoted until something actually pulls it in
<pitti> on that note, I played with vala on the flight back home
<pitti> quite nice, although horribly underdocumented
<pitti> I like it
<kenvandine> pitti, cool
<seb128> pitti, fundation, I captured what was on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/BootPerformance/Lucid/Desktop
<seb128> pitti, I didn't look at the X part though
<kenvandine> i gotta finish these specs so i can start writing something real
<seb128> pitti, should I?
<slomo> pitti: oh it's not, right... i thought someone yesterday said it was in main :)
<seb128> slomo, I said the security team made the testsuite fail a requirement for main
<seb128> so we are proactive there ;-)
<pitti> seb128: if there's something for us to do Xorg-wise, we should have WIs, yes
<seb128> pitti, ok, I will try to figure that's not something we discussed during the session at uds
<slomo> seb128: oh, ok :)
<chrisccoulson> slomo - i did the MIR for vala when tracker started using it, and i was packaging tracker from GIT. this was before i realised that the distributed tarballs all have the vala code compiled anyway
<seb128> speaking about mir, does anybody fancy doing some of those?
<seb128> we need some new libraries for gvfs
<seb128> libiphone for example
<seb128> pitti, ok, captured xorg wis for desktop speed and sent it your way now
<pitti> and upload fu announced to -desktop@
<pitti> seb128: you rock, thanks
<seb128> pitti, you rock too, thanks ;-)
 * seb128 hugs pitti
<seb128> sabotage!
<seb128> somebody cleaned the desktop-lucid-default-apps gobby document...
<pitti> oh, does that mean the spec is cancelled? :-)
<seb128> pitti, is that a lame try to sneak away from this one? ;-)
<kenvandine> i guess that means we ship gimp :)
<seb128> pitti, approved btw
<pitti> \o/
 * seb128 done with first round of drafting
 * pitti bids farewell to gimp, chess, and tetravex
<seb128> time to update the mini 10 to lucid and start bootcharting
<seb128> and do some packaging work
<pitti> seb128: yay
<kenvandine> have fun seb128!
<seb128> I will ;-)
<pitti> seb128: try removing the pulse xsession.d and upgrade to mvo's new compiz
 * kenvandine wants a mini 10, but will wait and see what arm devices come :)
<seb128> I'm eager to try how much speedup the compiz do
<seb128> pitti, right, will do
<kenvandine> tired of using the portuguese keyboard on my classmate
<kenvandine> very hard to use vi :)
<pitti> kenvandine: what keeps you from switching to US?
<mvo> seb128: its ftbfs because of some kde4 issues :/
<kenvandine> the keyboard? i can't find one
<kenvandine> i use the right layout
<kenvandine> but the keys are a bit funky
<kenvandine> if i used it everyday i would get used to it, but i only use it when i travel
<seb128> mvo, not cool
<kenvandine> it only bothers me in vim, but i use vim allot
<seb128> try emacs?
 * seb128 runs
<kenvandine> bah!
<kenvandine> i bet that would suck just as much on this keyboard :)
 * kenvandine <3 vim
<kenvandine> seb128, does your mini 10 have ssd?
<seb128> yes
<kenvandine> cool
<seb128> bah, almost 60meg to install bootchart...
<pitti> seb128: pybootchartgui FTW
<pitti> avoids the java stuff
<pitti> and works just as nicely
<seb128> Keybuk, ^ which one do you use?
<Keybuk> bootchart-java :)
<Keybuk> though it doesn't work in lucid
<Keybuk> so I may actually switch to finally using (and fixing up) the python one
<seb128> Keybuk, is pybootchartgui buggy?
<seb128> hum
<seb128> worded differently I don't care about what is running I want something I can use to bootchart lucid desktop and start boot speed work
<seb128> less to download is better if the python one works
<Keybuk> yeah
<Keybuk> settle on the python one
<pitti> I have used nothing else in the past half year, and Keybuk didn't harass me for sending bad charts ... yet
<Keybuk> I'm going to use that on the daily bootcharts I think
<Keybuk> for a while, it gave ugly output
<Keybuk> but I fixed that
<Keybuk> and never got around to switching myself ;)
<pitti> heh
<seb128> ok thanks
<seb128> much faster to get indeed ;-)
<seb128> hum
<seb128> doesn't work out of the box on karmic?
<seb128> I rebooted and nothing in /var/log/bootchart
<seb128> it's there now
<seb128> it was probably processing datas
<pitti> mvo: ooh, arch-build gone from update-notifier \o/
 * pitti hugs bzr-bd
<mvo> pitti: yeah, pretty much gone from all stuff since some time, bzr bd ftw!
<pitti> mvo: what causes autoreconf to be called now?
<mvo> its not done automatically anymore iirc
<pitti> so how does bzr bd -S work then?
<seb128> mvo, alter! how do I use an usb stick as a source for update?
<seb128> I did apt-cdrom add it
<seb128> but it doesn't find packages on it
<mvo> pitti: eh, sorry. bzr-builddeb/default.conf has "pre-build = autogen.sh"
<seb128> it's a current lucid iso writen on the key
<mvo> seb128: just copy the debs to /var/cache/apt/archives
<seb128> hum
<seb128> I can't use the key as a cdrom?
<mvo> seb128: that should work too, its just a bit tricky, easiest is probably to just make /cdrom point to it
<mvo> so edit fstab, point /cdrom to the stick apt-cdrom add
<seb128> I did apt-cdrom add -d mountpoint
<seb128> hum
<seb128> there is not a lot of deb on this image
<seb128> mvo, how does the "dist-upgrade from cd" magic works?
<seb128> everything is in the casper image no?
<mvo> seb128: is this a regular cd? then it won't :/ only alternate or dvd iamges
<seb128> oh ok
<seb128> I though we had prompt for "new ubuntu version detected do you want to upgrade" for a while
<seb128> I used to get those
<seb128> nevermind then
<seb128> I will just try a lucid install
<mvo> seb128: hrm, odd. I can not reproduce the compiz build failure in a clean chroot
<and471> mpt:hi
<mpt> Hi and471!
<and471> mpt: thanks for mentioning me at the software-center presentation, I watched it the other day :-)
<mpt> ah, you're welcome
<and471> mpt: hehe it was quite a suprise to have my name suddenly pop-up on screen :-)
<and471> mpt: I have a question about the application details view
<and471> mpt, at the moment we display a throbber until the image is loaded
<and471> mpt, is this neccessary, or can we have the image just fade in
<and471> mpt, I think it looks a bit better
<mpt> and471, without seeing it, my inclination would be to keep the throbber. But do you have a throbberless demo branch on LP I could try?
<and471> mpt: not yet
<and471> mpt: I was just doing some work on making the throbber we use, be the one from the gtk theme
<mpt> ah, cool
<and471> mpt: I have done this for all throbbers except for this one, and I wanted to check I needed to do the work :-)
<and471> mpt: would a video of it suffice?
<mpt> and471, I think pushing a branch would be just as easy, and more thoroughly testable, than a video
<and471> mpt: okay
<and471> mpt: it just a bit of a hacky remove of the throbber atm, that is why :-)
<and471> mpt, here is the branch (may have to wait for it to update) https://code.launchpad.net/~rugby471/software-center/appdetails-experiments
<KelderP> Has anyone experience with an jaunty-karmic upgrade a system which is configured in an Active Directory environment?
<mpt> thanks and471 -- I need to try that with a really slow Internet connection
<mpt> mvo, what was that trick you used to make screenshots load slowly?
<seb128> Keybuk, your uds bootchart was on the mini10?
<Keybuk> yes
<seb128> weird
<seb128> mines are quite different
<seb128> copying those online, one sec
<seb128> Keybuk, http://people.canonical.com/~seb128/bootchart
<Keybuk> your lucid one looks like mine
<Keybuk> except you have sreadhead not ureadahead
<Keybuk> (which explains the extra few seconds faster mine is <g>)
<Keybuk> they just 403d
<seb128> ok
<Keybuk> I can't see the charts now :(
<Keybuk> but if you add the ubuntu-boot PPA for karmic, you get ureadahead too
<Keybuk> I include that in my charts because it's going to be uploaded ANY DAY NOW
<seb128> Keybuk, ok thanks
<seb128> I won't bother about karmic
<Keybuk> err
<seb128> just keep that box on lucid uptodate and measure weekly progress
<Keybuk> I mean for lucid
<seb128> right, my comment was about the ubuntu-boot ppa
<Keybuk> I need to upload the separated out libnih to lucid
<Keybuk> but the lucid valgrind is a *lot* pickier
<Keybuk> so I need to update my suppressions file for my tests to pass
<Keybuk> yeah, I put ureadahead in ubuntu-boot ppa for lucid too - until I upload it to lucid proper
<seb128> Keybuk, at what point do you consider the box loaded?
<Keybuk> when both the CPU and I/O charts fall flat
<seb128> after the gnome-panel colored bar at ~26s?
<Keybuk> I've got a bit of Python that works it out from the .tgz
<Keybuk> since I ripped half the code out of pybootchartgui to make that bit of Python
<Keybuk> I'm going to plug it back in and upload
<seb128> ok, cool
<Keybuk> yeah, 26s on yours
<and471> mpt http://superuser.com/questions/66574/how-to-throttle-bandwidth-on-a-linux-network-interface
<Keybuk> damnit
<Keybuk> need to backport python-support to hardy
<and471> mpt: I think there are some problems with the code (the image isn't loaded), however I could work it out
<mvo> mpt: you can either use trickle or (simpler) just apply a small patch in the code that adds a sleep at the right place
<mvo> and471: hey!
<and471> mvo: hi there
<mvo> and471: I guess I need to merge your branch :)
<and471> mvo: if you wouldn't mind :-)
<Keybuk> daily@zelda:~$ python /home/scott/guess-time.py 20091116/max/max-lucid-20091125-2.tgz
<Keybuk> Total boot: 24.96
<Keybuk> Kernel:     4.25
<Keybuk>            (1.72)
<Keybuk> Plumbing:   3.26
<Keybuk> X:          4.01
<Keybuk> Desktop:    13.44
<Keybuk> sweeeeet
<and471> mvo: just wait
<and471> mvo, there is one thing I need to push
<Keybuk> seb128: http://people.canonical.com/~scott/guess-time.py
<and471> mvo: okay pushed now
<Keybuk> seb128: could you run that over your chart for comparison
<mvo> and471: merging now
<mvo> and471: you removed all the progress.pngs?
<and471> Keybuk, that link gives a 404
<seb128> Keybuk, trying, I've fixed the permission issue btw sorry about that
<and471> mvo: yup
<and471> mvo, I am using one file now
<mvo> aha, nice
<and471> mvo, all the frames are in one file now
<and471> mvo, a png
<Keybuk> fixed
<seb128> Keybuk, and what and471 says
 * Keybuk puts it in public_html instead of calling it pubic_html
<seb128> Keybuk, http://paste.ubuntu.com/327864/
<Keybuk> seb128: that's on the lucid tgz?
<seb128> yes
<seb128> I didn't keep the karmic ones
<Keybuk> ok
<Keybuk> probably a bit lax on where it says it stops then
<seb128> I've reinstalled the box was faster than upgrading
<Keybuk> in the script, change the 3.0s to 2.0?
<mvo> and471: thanks, that I a bit to review! I will do it tomorrow morning and merge/mail you about it
 * mvo needs to leave early today
<Keybuk> actually I guess I should actually find the first interval where the load is <25% *and the average for the next 3s is <25%
<Keybuk> not just an average 3s
<Keybuk> thanks :)
<and471> mvo, sure I understand
 * mvo waves
<seb128_> re
<seb128_> pitti, got what I was saying before disconnection?
<pitti> good night everyone!
<seb128> TheMuso, do you plan to drop the pulseaudio wrapper in lucid?
<dtchen> it was already dropped in bzr
<dtchen> ogra's upload didn't merge in those changes; I'll work on that now
<TheMuso> Ogra couldn't find the bzr branch? Its in the debian/control file and shows up in apt-cache showsrc pulseaudio. :S
<dtchen> well, reading his ping in ubuntu-devel, it looks like he saw it but was unsure how to proceed
<dtchen> and IRC is really the worst way to reach me during USA east coast business hours due to a direct collision with my work hours :/
<seb128> I think somebody said it was not uptodate
<dtchen> bzr is 100% current with upstream's stable branches
<dtchen> it isn't 100% current with HEAD; I have a separate bzr branch for that
<TheMuso> Right, makes sense.
<dtchen> ok, branch updated
<TheMuso> dtchen: thanks
<seb128> hey robert_ancell!
<robert_ancell> seb128, hey, just upgraded to lucid.  gobject-introspection seems broken :(
<seb128> right, good news is that you can fix it
<seb128> uploads work for desktop team now
<seb128> or probably I didn't check if those are in the desktop set
<robert_ancell> yay!
<Amaranth> seb128: Looks like the compiz without a shell script has been uploaded, did you see any speedup with it?
<seb128> Amaranth, no but it failed to build first and got retried and built on i386 only so far
<seb128> I will try again tomorrow
<Amaranth> hrm, wonder why it failed
<Amaranth> oh, that explains the flood of messages from launchpad :)
<seb128> kde transition apparently...
<Amaranth> ah, dang
<Amaranth> yeah I see the log now
<Amaranth> It failed to find the stuff to build kde4-window-decorator and didn't bail at that point so dh_install failed instead
<seb128> time to go to bed there!
<seb128> 'night
<seb128> robert_ancell, no need to ask sponsoring for gnome updates, just upload now ;-)
<seb128> bye
<Amaranth> Hrm, where is the GNOME-Do guy when you need him?
<Amaranth> I always forget his name :)
<dtchen> "DBO"?
<dtchen> Amaranth: Jason, IIRC
<Amaranth> no no, I know who DBO is :)
<Amaranth> djsiegel or something
<Amaranth> I guess he is handling compiz settings in lucid so I need to talk to him before I drop extrawm from the defaults so we can push compiz-fusion-plugins-extra out to universe
#ubuntu-desktop 2009-11-26
<TheMuso> chrisccoulson: When doing a merge, please pass the version number of the last Ubuntu package version to dpkg-buildpackage with the -v flag, so we get the Debian changelog entries in the changes file when you upload.
<chrisccoulson> TheMuso - no problem
<fagan> hmmm are we going to revisit the decision to get rid of EOG now that the F-Spot developers fixed the viewer?
<fagan> wheres rickspencer3 when I need him :)
 * fagan will find him tomorrow 
<TheMuso> fagan: He is off till Monday.
<fagan> oh thanksgiving I forgot
<fagan> thanks TheMuso :)
<fagan> It can wait
<lifeless> TheMuso: please fila  bug on bzr-builddeb to do that automatically.
<TheMuso> c
<pwnguin> anyone know how to turn firefox debugging output on?
<pwnguin> strike that, incontravertial proof found
<pitti> Good morning
<ajmitch> morning pitti
<seb128> good morning there
<pitti> hey seb128
<seb128> hello mr pitti
<seb128> how are you?
<pitti> I'm great, thanks! I'm in  the middle of implementing jockey-hotplug-support :)
<seb128> ;-)
<pitti> so depending on when mvo gets around to approving it, I might have it working even before approval :-P
<pitti> how are you?
 * pitti hugs mvo
<seb128> oh, apparently robert_ancell made good use of upload rights this night!
<seb128> I'm good thanks
<pitti> yeah
<mvo> pitti: is it ready for review yet? I can do it now, its a nice change from wirting specs ;)
<pitti> mvo: pending approval since yesterday
<pitti> mvo: should take you two minutes or less, I figure
<mvo> pitti: thanks, done
<pitti> \o/ danke
<didrocks> good morning there
<mvo> :)
<pitti> hey didrocks
<didrocks> Guten Morgen pitti
 * pitti mumbles about the "dbus.exceptions.DBusException: org.freedesktop.PolicyKit1.Error.Failed: Error parsing subject struct" he gets in lucid now
<pitti> does anyone else get that in lucid, too, when calling jockey-gtk ?
<seb128> hey didrocks
<seb128> pitti, yes
<pitti> thanks
<seb128> pitti, yes, get the same error there, "dbus.exceptions.DBusException: org.freedesktop.PolicyKit1.Error.Failed: Error parsing subject struct"
<didrocks> lut seb128
<didrocks> So, regarding gconf tweaking, I see that in the variable are either ENV_MANDATORY_PATH or ENV_DEFAULTS_PATH (I guess, we should use MANDATORY for UNE as we don't want the panels to be changed)
<didrocks> The issue is that /etc/gconf/2/path "include" them (waiting for a tree path like in ~/.gconf). So xml files generated by udpate-gconf-defaults aren't read.
<didrocks> We can either tweak update-gconf-defaults to add an option to export to a directory tree structure or add a new "xml:readonly:ENV_GCONF_MANDATORY_SESSION" in /etc/gconf/2/path. What's the best option to your opinion?
<seb128> ?
<didrocks> oh, I can maybe try something else, one sec
<seb128> gconf should be smart and understand both formats
<seb128> bbib, restart after upgrades
<seb128> re
<seb128> pitti, btw did you read my messages about bootchart yesterday evening?
<pitti> seb128: about pybootchartgui? we discussed that quickly, yes
<seb128> pitti, no, about me storing regular charts from now on the same url
<pitti> ah, no, I missed that
<seb128> http://people.canonical.com/~seb128/bootchart
<seb128> I will keep uploading bootcharts from my mini10v
<seb128> at least weekly ones
<seb128> but maybe extra charts for noticable changes, etc
<seb128> lucid yesterday was 26s to boot, almost 15 seconds for desktop
<seb128> I'm doing a new one now with compiz and pulseaudio updates
<pitti> lucid is a second longer than karmic? shame
<pitti> seb128: oh, can you please install ureadahead?
<seb128> no
<seb128> I want to stick with lucid
<seb128> and not start diverting
<seb128> if that's what we should use somebody should land that in lucid
<pitti> we'll use that
<pitti> it's in karmic-proposed and about to go to -updates
<seb128> ok, good, so I will wait for it to be used ;-)
<pitti> okay
<seb128> I've cleaned the karmic install there anyway
<seb128> pitti, I might try the u version later but for now I want to measure the impact of the compiz and pulseaudio changes
<seb128> and I don't want to add extra changes to the equation
<pitti> right
<pitti> also, I guess sreadahead works reasonably well on SSD
<seb128> my laptop stoped creating bootchart images on lucid for some reason
<seb128> there are only .tgz since I upgraded
<seb128> oh, I'm using the java version there
 * seb128 switches to the python one
<pitti> mvo: would you mind having a quick look at http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/update-notifier/ubuntu/revision/541 to see whether I forgot something in the structure?
 * mvo looks
<pitti> oh
<pitti> [HOOKS]
<pitti> pre-build = ./autogen.sh
<pitti> mvo: ^ so that's the trick :)
<pitti> cool
<mvo> pitti: yeah
<mvo> pitti: I wrote that on irc yesterday, but maybe it got lost
<mvo> pitti: looks good to me
<didrocks> seb128: I think I caught the issue. Even if I export ENV_MANDATORY_PATH before executing gnome-session in the shell launched by .desktop file, gconf is probably initialized differently. This environment variable isn't in its /proc/<pid>/environ (all environment variable in the gnome-session wrapper aren't in gconfd environment)
<pitti> mvo: thanks
 * pitti sends lucidwards
<didrocks> pitti: consequently to ^, your GDMSESSION isn't useful in gnome-stracciatella (GDMSESSION seems to be exported by default from <GDMSESSION>.desktop)
<seb128> didrocks, it's probably because gconf is dbus activated
<pitti> didrocks: I don't understand, I'm afraid
<seb128> didrocks, why isn't GDMSESSION useful?
<seb128> it works for ie notify-osd
<seb128> GDMSESSION is correctly set for gnome-session
<didrocks> yes, GDMSESSION is exported by default from <name>.desktop. I'm speaking about the gnome-stracciatella wrapper
<didrocks> (the wrapper export GDMSESSION before running gdm-session)
<didrocks> but GDMSESSION can already be set by default from the desktop file
<seb128> that doesn't make sense
<seb128> gdm is the one exporting this variable
<seb128> not the .desktop
<didrocks> let's say I create a gnome-foo.desktop executing only gnome-session in /usr/share/xsessions/
<didrocks> I got an GDMSESSION=gnome-foo, right?
<seb128> yes
<seb128> gdm sets it
<didrocks> what I mean is that I don't understand why in gnome-stracciatella, GDMSESSION is exported before executing gnome-session
<didrocks> (/usr/bin/gnome-stracciatella is executed by /usr/share/xsessions/gnome-stracciatella.desktop)
<didrocks> and that's the only thing the wrapper does
<seb128> oh you mean we could drop a line
<seb128> that's possible
<didrocks> yeah
<seb128> having an extra export doesn't make me not sleep at night though...
<didrocks> I tried and it works
<seb128> maybe old gdm didn't work the same way
<didrocks> ok, but that troubled me because for une, I tried to add an extra value and I only saw one in gconf environment (GDMSESSION) :)
<seb128> and we didn't clean that since
<seb128> alright
<seb128> open a bug I guess ;-)
<didrocks> ok, I'll clean that. But that doesn't help me for gconf initialisation :/
<seb128> diverting gconf config is not something trivial
<seb128> I expected it would be hacky,create troubles...
<didrocks> yeah, that's why setting the environment variable would have been the less messy for other desktop sessions
<didrocks> I just wonder if anyone has tried once setting one of those two environment variables and get it works :)
<seb128> no reason it wouldn't work
<seb128> but you need to have gconfd have it set
<seb128> and it's not trivial since we dbus active gconf
<didrocks> yes, I understand what's the matter is, I'm trying to find a way to achieve this
<seb128> use .gconf.path?
<didrocks> if I do that, every sessions will inherit UNE-desktop gconf values, not only "une desktop" session
<seb128> what do you need to change exactly?
<didrocks> the idea was to add UNE default gconf values like one panel, one workspace only to get a une default experience
<didrocks> a bad solution would be to set those values (without touching ~/.gconf) in the wrapper one after another :/
<seb128> didrocks, you don't want to set those values or the normal session will get them too
<didrocks> ok so, that doesn't solve it. The only solution is to get this environment variable into gconfd so that the additional gconf values are only read on UNE desktop session
<seb128> right
<seb128> or to code patch things
<didrocks> seb128: opening /usr/share/gconf/${GDMSESSION}.path for instance during default value loading?
<seb128> yes
<seb128> is GDMSESSION sets for the gconf env?
<didrocks> I think I'll do this
<didrocks> yes
<seb128> pitti, mvo, Amaranth: not good
<seb128> lucid takes 5 seconds longer to boot today
<pitti> :(
<seb128> seems compiz doesn't register to the session since the update
<seb128> so gnome-session goes: wait wait wait wait wait wait timeout
<seb128> pitti, mvo: http://people.canonical.com/~seb128/bootchart/seb128-dellmini-lucid-20091126-28.png
<seb128> on a good note compiz.real was starting after 4 seconds
<seb128> and compiz starts after 2 seconds now there
<seb128> so we won 2 seconds with the wrapper drops for compiz and pulseaudio
<pitti> cool
<pitti> WTH is the long delay from gtk-window-decorator?
<seb128> what I just wrote before
<pitti> until panel is started?
<pitti> ah
<pitti> sorry
<seb128> compiz doesn't register
<pitti> is it importnat to have the WM running before we can start nautilus/panel/etc.?
<seb128> gnome-session does that because it's supposed to be efficient
<seb128> avoid having theme flickering etc
<seb128> and to have the cost of getting things drawned once with no theme and then moved and themed
<seb128> ie, start g-d-s and wm first
<seb128> and then applications
<seb128> pitti, mvo: there is something else weird there
<seb128> the compiz bar activity divided by two or something
<pitti> seb128: for https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-lucid-suspend-quirks-halsectomy I used the existing Halsectomy page and work items; please let me know if you prefer a real spec wiki page
<seb128> pitti, no I'm fine with the whiteboard, thanks
<pitti> seb128: oh? I just see a single block
<pitti> seb128: the "spec" link points to wiki.u.c./Halsectomy which has the details
 * pitti -> lazy, and rather prefers working on the actual code
<seb128> pitti, the bar was around 8 seconds yesterday
<seb128> it's much shorter today
<seb128> the colored part I mean
<seb128> pitti, well updating a wikipage or items on a whiteboard is about the same work or I don't understand the question?
<cassidy> seb128, hi. Would be cool to fix https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/telepathy-gabble/+bug/488709 in Karmic. We just add a chat with the admin of this server and removed it from git but that won't help if it's still in Karmic
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 488709 in telepathy-gabble "Please remove hard coded jabber file proxy" [Undecided,New]
<seb128> in fact wiki tend to be much slower to respond that blueprint edit
<seb128> cassidy, looking
<seb128> bah it's a shame than firefox does much better a displaying images than eog
<pitti> seb128: "understand the question" > what was the question?
<seb128> pitti, why would a wiki page be easier?
<pitti> seb128: I meant that I didn't leave the blueprint entirely without a wiki link
<pitti> seb128: I keep the work items in the whiteboard, of course
<seb128> "* pitti -> lazy, and rather prefers working on the actual code"
<seb128> was that related to the wiki discussion?
<seb128> sorry I'm just being confused
<pitti> seb128: sorry, no; I meant, I didn't create a new spec wiki page to repeat the same informatino than on Halsectomy in a different format
<seb128> is there some spec of mine you suggest changing?
<seb128> I didn't do that either
<pitti> seb128: no, just pointing it out because you are the approver of that :)
<seb128> oh ok
<seb128> now it makes sense
<seb128> I though you were using your spec as an example to make a point about the login speed one
<seb128> gotcha
<seb128> pitti, it's all good, no need of a real wiki page
<seb128> cassidy, how is this list of servers built? is there some other which might turn problematic?
<cassidy> seb128, it has been built from http://coccinella.im/servers/servers_by_proxy_bytestreams.html
<cassidy> seb128, I'm about to fix a bug that should reduce the nb of query (only query proxies when we actually need them)
<seb128> cassidy, are those supposed to be public proxy servers?
<cassidy> yeah
<seb128> so why is using that one an issue?
<seb128> if the guy doesn't want users he shouldn't made a public proxy
<cassidy> the admin of this server claims he hasn't be asked to be on that list
<cassidy> and he has a fair point saying that having a proxy open doesn't mean to you want all the Ubuntu and Fedora users to use it :)
<seb128> well, he runs a public proxy, anybody is free to use it...
<cassidy> I agree, but also understand his point, that's a big difference now that lot of people are using Empathy
<seb128> I'm still unsure about that
<seb128> we don't want to play upload every day because servers changes or admin want users or not
<seb128> would it possible to build that list dynamically somewhat and not have it in the source?
<seb128> is the issue that the server is used there?
<cassidy> seb128, we are investigating a better solution
<seb128> or is it that the bug you are fixing DoS servers?
<cassidy> like have proxy.collabora.co.uk and do DNS balacing or something
<seb128> in which case I would rather recommend fixing the DoS issue
<seb128> ie will the server use still be an issue once the overuse is fixed too?
<cassidy> I suspect it will. As more and more people are going to use file transfer and tubes
<seb128> ok
<seb128> I will fix that one and wait for you guys to fix the collabora proxy thing later ;-)
<cassidy> we are thinking atm about implemeting a better solution
<cassidy> thanks!
<seb128> np, thank you for pointing the bug
<seb128> I'm not subscribed to gabble
<cassidy> It's a bit my fault, I didn't realise that the gain of popularity of Empathy would cause such issue
<cassidy> seb128, we are about to remove all the proxies and set our own (not deployed yet)
<cassidy> plan is to ask to server admin if they mind to be added
<cassidy> and we'll add them using DNS round robin
<cassidy> so maybe you should wait for this patch before doing the upload
<seb128> cassidy, how long do you think it will take?
<seb128> I've the sru ready for upload
<seb128> but I don't really care either way
<seb128> I like your solution better though ;-)
<seb128> but if it takes some weeks and the guy get really angry meanwhile...
<cassidy> hopefully server will be up today but it will probably take a will before we got the reply from admins
<seb128> ok
<seb128> I will you decide since you talked to the admin
<Keybuk> hah
<Keybuk> someone freed up some space on antimony
 * Keybuk just heard the ubuntu jingle from upstairs
<seb128> Keybuk, hey
<seb128> Keybuk, do you have a box where boot was blocking on antimony disk space?
<Keybuk> new cdimage
<Keybuk> must have just rsync'd and one of the minis just installed it and booted
<seb128> ah ok
<seb128> speaking about mini
<seb128> we won 2 seconds today with compiz and pulseaudio wrappers drop
<seb128> and have an extra 8 seconds due to compiz registration which broke on the way
<seb128> you might want to chase mvo about the new compiz issue ;-)
<Keybuk> hehe
<Keybuk> you win some, you fail some
<seb128> I'm wondering why seahorse-daemon is in this chart
<seb128> I though we stopped installing it by default
<seb128> hum no
<seb128> I confuse it with the agent
<pitti> seb128: FYI, I removed the xorg/hal work item from desktop-lucid-startup-speed and linked the separate spec as a dependency
<Keybuk> pitti: Michael Frey on the OEM team has built some Xorg packages with the current set of udev replacement patches applied
<Keybuk> hopefully they'll generally do the right thing
<pitti> oh, great
<pitti> Keybuk: I wrote a spec about it yesterday
<pitti> bryce said that jcristau's patches don't apply well to our current one and wanted to wait for 1.7
<Keybuk> when is that coming out?
<pitti> I have some udev rules which port the keyboard/synaptics fdis
<pitti> Keybuk: unsure, I just know "couple of weeks"
<Keybuk> the patches applied fine here btw
<Keybuk> it's mostly just adding a new backend after all
<pitti> Keybuk: you took them from http://cgit.freedesktop.org/~jcristau/xserver/ ?
<pitti> I'm happy to build one and then beat my udev rules into shape
<Keybuk> I took them from the mailing list
<Keybuk> looks like the same set though
<pitti> you don't happen to have built .debs, do you?
<Keybuk> Michael probably does
<pitti> ok, great
<Keybuk> (ChickenCutlass on #oem)
<seb128> pitti, ok good
<Keybuk> not that I mean to rush
<Keybuk> but we don't have many alphas to test things ;)
<pitti> Keybuk: ah, it's in the status area of https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-lucid-xorg-halsectomy
 * pitti looks at PPA
<Keybuk> and ripping HAL back out of X is the kind of thing we really want to test ;)
<pitti> absolutely
<Keybuk> and is one of the really important cards in the boot speed house ;)
<pitti> I think I'll wait for Michael to wake up and test his packages
<pitti> no need to spend time on fixing the patches if he already did
<Keybuk> yeah, this week is "everyone's on holiday" anyway :)
<pitti> oh heck, right
<pitti> nothing in https://edge.launchpad.net/~mfrey/+archive/ppa anyway
<pitti> Keybuk: ah, they apply just fine to xorg-edgers; trying that
<pitti> bryce: do you know why xorg-edgers has server 1.7.99 while we are actually heading for 1.7?
<pitti> i. e. are we deliberately using the previous version, or is it just a weird numbering scheme?
<Keybuk> that compiz bug screwed up my bootcharts ;-)
<Keybuk> it goes idle while compiz is running, so they get cropped
<seb128> and mvo doesn't seem to be around today
<seb128> maybe Amaranth will show up soon ;-)
<Keybuk> I fixed them
<Keybuk> http://people.canonical.com/~scott/daily-bootcharts/
<Keybuk> X got the xkbcomp patches?
<seb128> Keybuk, it did
<seb128> 2 days ago
<Keybuk> that made a big difference!
<Keybuk> if you're on chromium, you can see the Xorg graph drop!
<Keybuk> did the -nr patches go in too?
<seb128> what chromium has to do with that?
<seb128> yes
<seb128> they both did in the recent upload
<Keybuk> sweet, so when we use plymouth, another 1s or so should magically vanish
<Keybuk> seb128: Firefox can't render SVG in <img> tags
<Keybuk> so you don't see the cute graphs at the top of the daily-bootcharts URL
<seb128> indeed
<seb128> I just see a table
<seb128> but that's enough to see the 1 second xorg drop
<seb128> and the extra 8 seconds for desktop
<Keybuk> yeah
<mvo> seb128: I was just ignoring you ;)
<seb128> mvo, I see ... no tea for you!
<seb128> hum
<mvo> seb128: I get back to it, I just need to finish some other stuff
<seb128> why is jockey-gtk on Keybuk's chart...
<seb128> mvo, no hurry, thanks
<seb128> pitti, ^
<seb128> pitti, did you drop the sleep for starting jockey?
<Keybuk> jockey seems to be using a lot of CPU there
<Keybuk> but that could be just python startup
<Keybuk> appearing to take a long time because the CPU is busy being used elsewhere
<Keybuk> I don't think that should be updating cache or anything
<Keybuk> post-install, I have:
<Keybuk> dbus-daemon --system
<Keybuk> jockey-text -u || true
<Keybuk> jockey-text -c || true
<Keybuk> kill $(cat /var/run/dbus/pid) || true
<Keybuk> rm -f /var/run/dbus/pid /var/run/dbus/system_bus_socket
<Keybuk> which should force a jockey cache update before the first reboot ;-)
<Keybuk> at least, that's the ide
<Keybuk> +a
<seb128> Keybuk, why do you need to do that?
<Keybuk> otherwise on the first boot jockey updates its caches and stuff
<Keybuk> and that shows up
<Keybuk> there's a broadcom wireless card in them thar minis
<pitti> urgh, xorg-edgers looks scary
<pitti> seb128: I didn't no
<pitti> seb128: but jockey shouldn't be called at all any more, except on very first startup
<pitti> I think we can drop even that one once it's integrated in the installer
<Keybuk> pitti: how does it decide what "first startup" is?
<pitti> but the sleep is currently done within jockey indeed, so we'd still have the interpreter startup
<pitti> Keybuk: presence of /var/cache/jockey/check
<Keybuk> pitti: would the shell code I pasted above create that?
<pitti> should, yes
<Keybuk> jockey-gtk only appears on today's
<pitti> unless jockey wouldn't actually write it if it didn't detect any drivers; I need to  check that
<Keybuk> and on both SSD and HDD
<Keybuk> that implies a software bug ;)
<Keybuk> pitti: both should have the broadcom wireless
<pitti> one odd thing might be that jockey is currently broken completely
<pitti> due to some polkit-1 regression
<pitti> dbus.exceptions.DBusException: org.freedesktop.PolicyKit1.Error.Failed: Error parsing subject struct
<pitti> but I'll keep it on my list
<Keybuk> haha
<Keybuk> let me check
<Keybuk> meh
<Keybuk> no jockey output in debug log
<pitti> so it couldn't ever write that cache file on a fresh install
<pitti> jockey-text --list
<pitti> ^ does that work for you?
<pitti> I bet it raises an exception
<Keybuk> no idea
<Keybuk> the machines wipe themselves after install
<pitti> Keybuk: well, I bet it's that
<Keybuk> oh, wait
<Keybuk> they only wipe the MBR :p
 * pitti installs udevified x.org and holds his breath
<Keybuk> pitti: you were quite correct
<Keybuk> I got that PK error
<Keybuk> pitti: remember the x11_driver thing ;)
<Keybuk> that's important
<pitti> Keybuk: yes, I have my udev rules in place
<pitti> things use evdev, except the touchpad which uses synaptics
<pitti> and it knows my keyboard layout, too
 * pitti pulls trigger, brb (hopefully)
<Keybuk> good luck :D
 * pitti grins evily
<pitti>  lshal
<pitti> Could not initialise connection to hald.
<pitti> (II) config/udev: Adding input device "AT Translated Set 2 keyboard" (/dev/input/event4)
<pitti> (II) config/udev: Adding input device "AlpsPS/2 ALPS DualPoint TouchPad" (/dev/input/event11)
<pitti> (II) LoadModule: "synaptics"
<pitti> \o/
<Keybuk> sweet
<Keybuk> it worked for me on the mini 10s too
<Keybuk> pitti: SHIP IT!
<pitti> that's xorg-edgers crack of the day
<pitti> with a "nice" intel bug
<pitti> (II) LoadModule: "synaptics"
<pitti> oops
<pitti> https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=25031
<ubottu> Freedesktop bug 25031 in Driver/intel "rendering and color corruption since 14109abf" [Major,New]
<pitti> but it's good enough for testing the udev rules stuff
<pitti> Caught signal 11 (Segmentation fault). Server aborting
<pitti> ^ oh, and I guess this needs to be fixed, too; but details.. :-)
<pitti> Keybuk: anyway, I think if we get that, we can move hal from upstart job to dbus-activation
<Keybuk> it's nice to know that sanity first-passes work though
<pitti> so that it's not in the critical path any more
<Keybuk> pitti: to be honest, I'd rather leave HAL disabled for a while ;)
<Keybuk> make it really obvious what's using it and encourage them to fix it
<Keybuk> then do the activation thing later on
<pitti> right
<pitti> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Halsectomy has a pretty complete list
<pitti> like, gdm itself
<Keybuk> sure, but it's amazing how things show up you didn't know about
<pitti> but that's on my list
<pitti> Keybuk: by not starting it at all, we'd screw the Kubuntu guys pretty thoroughly, though
<Keybuk> I like to think of it as them screwing themselves by not keeping up ;)
<pitti> in a new PPA now
<pitti> Keybuk: actually, I think we can do something different
<Keybuk> such as?
<pitti> Keybuk: we have three remaining rdepends on a standard install now, AFAICS: xserver-xorg (see above), gdm (will fix), gparted
<pitti> it doesn't seem too hard to make it fall off the CD completely
<Keybuk> ah
<Keybuk> make sure it falls off the CD you mean?
<Keybuk> and flag it if it ever comes back?
<Keybuk> that works for me
<pitti> hm, gparted -- that's in the live system for rescue love
 * pitti wonders if we could just sell palimpsest as a replacement
<Keybuk> isn't gparted used by ubiquity? :p
<pitti> libparted is
<pitti> (I think)
<pitti> I don't have hal running now
<pitti> and it does detect my internal partitions
<pitti> it doesn't react to hotplugging any more, though
<Keybuk> it'd be really nice to have those patches in on the sooner timescale ;)
<Keybuk> though obv. they depend on a new X :p
<Keybuk> really?
<pitti> the gdm one doesn't
<Keybuk> the code I read through looked like it should just fine
<pitti> I'll look into this now
<Keybuk> the X code that is
<pitti> X code?
<pitti> Keybuk: above I was speaking about gparted
 * pitti goes to unhalify gdm
<Keybuk> ohh
<Keybuk> I was going to say, the X code looked right, and reacted to udevadm when I played
<Keybuk> udevadm working is important
<Keybuk> otherwise how else does one un-stick one's mouse when empathy steals it? :p
 * pitti tries hotplugging
<pitti> works like a charm
<Keybuk> heh
<Keybuk> it's amazing how we're getting awesome functionality while removing code :p
<JanC> the installer uses libparted, and I think gparted can work without hal now
<JanC> I think curtis has a patch for that in gparted git
<JanC> http://git.gnome.org/cgit/gparted/commit/?id=d9b892a73f2f078ae6314c4925b438e43fe4392e --> should be in GParted 0.4.8
<pitti> JanC: oh, that's just for locking hal/dk-disks
<JanC> I don't think GParted uses hal for something else?
<pitti> JanC: without hal I apparently loose hotplug detection
<JanC> I don't think GParted does any detection of new disks while it's running?
<pitti> oh, it doesn't? well, then it's fine
<pitti> JanC: confirmed; I have to press control-r after hotplug either way
<pitti> hush, away with the hal dep then! :-)
<JanC> up to 0.4.7 it depended on the hal lock mechanism, since 0.4.8 it can use both
 * pitti confirms http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=558022
<ubottu> Debian bug 558022 in gparted "gparted: Please don't depend on hal; just use it if present" [Normal,Open]
<pitti> JanC: it didn't "depend" on hal before either
<pitti> if hal-lock/hal isn't even there, no reason to lock it
<pitti> JanC: thanks! (uploaded)
<JanC> pitti: no problem, I host/admin the GParted forum, so I somewhat have to know about most of what is going on with GParted development  ;)
<mpt> kwwii, are text[NORMAL] and fg[NORMAL] GTK-specific?
<kwwii> mpt: they are defined in gtk, yes
<mpt> kwwii, so the details about using them can't go in the Icon Naming Specification?
<kwwii> mpt: no, not realisticaly without an explanation
<mpt> kwwii, I've just completed http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/SymbolicIcons
<kwwii> not all desktops use the same number/names of variables anyway
<seb128> yeah for chrisccoulson, didrocks and robert_ancell uploads!
<and471> mvo : was there anything wrong with the code?
<chrisccoulson> heh, i thought i should start doing some merges now, after not doing very much all week
<mvo> and471: nothing wrong, I just would like to see a bit of cleanup on the bits that contruct the spinner from the single image. its currently using hardcoded sizes (24, 72)
<mvo> and471: I meant to send a mail about it, but got caught up in other stuff :/
<and471> mvo: does it? I thought I replaced them..
<mvo> and471: oh, let me check if I really got the lasted rev then
<and471> mvo: is that all? in which case I shall fix it now
<and471> mvo: no I am sure you did, I probably left out something
 * mvo merges again
<mpt> kwwii, is that useful for you?
<kwwii> mpt: yes, it is well written, somehow I think I could help explain it better
<mvo> and471: animatedimage.py is still havng the hardcoded sizes, it would be very nice to fix that
<mpt> kwwii, it's a wiki page, go to town :-)
<and471> mvo: okay
<mvo> and471: I had something else too (something equally small :)
<and471> mvo: sure
<mvo> and471: give me a sec to remember
<mvo> and471: is "fixed1" actually used? in the ui file? it not referenced. or is it a trick to get gtk to layout as you want it to layout?
<and471> seb128: have you seen the new version of gThumb? look's pretty slick, I am sure there will now be an argument about f-spot vs gthumb http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2009/11/new-gthumb-linux-plugins-f-spot-killer.html
<kwwii> dobey: erm, how can I get a login for the freedesktop wiki? and/or do I have one and not know about it?
<and471> mvo: nope, the tab page needs some widget inside it, or it doesn't display it, so I just used that, you can change it if you like
<seb128> and471, total code write, urg, doesn't seem something for a lts
<and471> seb128: yup but it certainly doesn't make it an easier decision :-)
<mvo> and471: thats fine, I was just curious if it was deliberate or a left-over :)
<and471> mvo: okay I shall clean that up and push
<seb128> and471, decision is easy looking to this webpage, we keep what we have
<seb128> and471, it still doesn't have timeline nor export to flickr, etc
<seb128> and it's not tested
<seb128> new codebase
<seb128> nothing we want for a lts
<and471> seb128: okay okay... :-)
<mvo> and471: setup_database_rebuilding_listener() appears to be duplicated, could you please check that
<and471> mvo: okay
<mvo> and471: nice that you added the sepeartor :)
 * mvo likes that
<and471> mvo: what's that?
<and471> mvo: one thing before I eat, in my branch I added some code that makes */- lists actual HTML lists, however the RegEX is not quite right, it leaves the '*' or '-' at the beginning of the list item. Could you look at this as I have no clue at regex's
<mvo> and471: yeah, I can have a look
<mvo> and471: I will most likely also move the code that does the subpixbuf() in ShowImageDialog and AnimatedImage into a single function, afaics its the same code
<mvo> and471: please let me know when I can re-merge (and thanks for working on it!)
<mvo> seb128: compiz is running twice you said in your bootchart? so it re-execs itself?
<seb128> mvo, no, I said it doesn't register to the session
<seb128> mvo, http://people.canonical.com/~seb128/bootchart/seb128-dellmini-lucid-20091126-28.png
<seb128> see the 8 seconds waiting
<seb128> I guess it's the "gnome-session waits for compiz to send registration ack which it doesn't"
<mvo> seb128: hm, I do not see currently how the no-wrapper patch changes this
 * mvo looks deeper
<mvo> seb128: gnome-session did not change in any way?
<seb128> no
<seb128> but gnome-session is picky on who registers
<seb128> the binary naming change could make a difference
<mvo> ohh
<Amaranth> hrm
<seb128> let me look in gnome-session if we hardcode compiz.real
 * Amaranth hides from seb128
<Amaranth> oh, yeah
<seb128> Amaranth, that's from Keybuk you should hide
 * Amaranth blames gnome-session
<Amaranth> but hey, 2 second win :)
<Amaranth> I wonder why I never noticed the problem
<seb128> what problem?
<Amaranth> Probably because I have so much crap running my bootcharts are crazy anyway
<Amaranth> gnome-session stalling waiting for compiz to respond
<seb128> it was not there before your upload ;-)
<Amaranth> I've been using it since I initially wrote the patch though
<Amaranth> but my boot times fluctuate a lot anyway, I need to do a clean install and not install web servers
<seb128> gnome-session doesn't seem to hardcore anything
<Amaranth> mvo: changing gtk/gnome/50-compiz-desktop-key.xml.in won't actually do anything since we ship the metacity version of that file
<Amaranth> Which is a change you made, actually :)
<mvo> Amaranth: could it be this:
<mvo> 	if [ ! -z "$DESKTOP_AUTOSTART_ID" ]; then
<mvo> 		COMPIZ_OPTIONS="$COMPIZ_OPTIONS --sm-client-id $DESKTOP_AUTOSTART_ID"
<mvo> 	fi
<Amaranth> d'oh
<Amaranth> I thought gnome-session would just call compiz with --sm-client-id
<Amaranth> It did back when we made session save/restore work
<seb128> gnome-session will run whatever is in the desktop
<mvo> 50-compiz-desktop-key.xml.in> right, that can go away I think
<mvo> Amaranth: hm, I have no idea if/why it does not use sm-clinet-id, seb128?
<mvo> or maybe vuntz knows?
<seb128> vuntz, ^
<Amaranth> looks like metacity was fixed to look for DESKTOP_AUTOSTART_ID back in 2007
<Amaranth> which means this isn't a gnome-session rewrite problem
 * Amaranth adds similar code to compiz
<and471> mvo: ah yes the separator :-)
<mvo> Amaranth: \o/
<mvo> Amaranth: I have dinner now, but I check back in some minutes
<seb128> Amaranth, you rock ;-)
 * mvo hugs and471 along the way
<and471> mvo: hehe
<seb128> mvo, enjoy!
<mvo> thanks!
<vuntz> mvo, seb128: I have no clue how you start compiz :-)
<seb128> vuntz, set the session key to  "compiz"
<Keybuk> vuntz: "carefully"
<seb128> and have no wrapper
<seb128> ie just run the compiz binary
<seb128> session key = required component wm
 * Amaranth builds and tests
 * Amaranth wonders how to see if this helps...
<and471> mvo: about the hardcoded values, is this any issue? The path to the icon is hardcoded (softwarecenter-progress.png) and so therefore it won't change
<mpt> mvo, hi, how's the showing-all-packages stuff going?
<Amaranth> mpt: He went to dinner :)
<vuntz> so gnome-session can't really pass --sm-client-id since, well, it doesn't know if apps support --sm-client-id
<Amaranth> brb, rebooting for bootchart
<jwm1> I just upgraded to Karmic and my dual monitor system isn't going -- can anyone help?
<and471> mvo: I have removed the duplicate function and per above I think it is now ready to merge :-) If not, please email me
<jwm1> or should I be making this inquiry elsewhere?
<mpt> mvo, when you're back, can we discuss these work items?
<seb128> Keybuk, the login target will be hard to get ...
<jwm1> hmm?
<seb128> with no desktop effect and no nautilus running we still do 7 seconds
<seb128> so it's not only a matter to speed those
<mpt> seb128, that's why we have geniuses to work on it
<seb128> and we will not bring them to no time
<Keybuk> 4 of those seconds are the weird gap to gnome-session
<Keybuk> that means you're just 3s
<Keybuk> which is 1s under your budget ;)
<Keybuk> I didn't randomly invent numbers
<seb128> mpt, oh, we got that, good I had the feeling it was just plain old stupid desktop guys there! ;-)
<Keybuk> if you remember the flight to brussels, I did a 10s boot
<Keybuk> now we're just redoing it in packages
<Amaranth> seb128: If gnome-panel starts less than a second after compiz does that mean it's fixed?
<seb128> Amaranth, yes
<mac_v> seb128: pitti: mpt: why hasnt Bug #194472 been fixed in Ubuntu? Upstream has added the option to show stars if the Distribution chooses , but still it hasnt been fixed?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 194472 in sudo "Please enhance the sudo explanation message" [Unknown,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/194472
<Amaranth> yay
<Amaranth> I guess I get to upload now, let's see if I remember how
<seb128> Keybuk, I was not in brussels but still, that will be though, those are not random gaps no
<pitti> mac_v: simply because nobody got around to doing it in karmic
<mac_v> lol ;)
<seb128> Keybuk, it's just that gnome-session order starts
<Keybuk> actually that's all stuff before gnome-session
<seb128> Keybuk, like it takes 1 second to g-s-d to set themes, etc
<Keybuk> starting one at a time to set environment
<Keybuk> neat hack to fix that
<mac_v> pitti: then could you schedule it for Lucid? so that we dont forget again? :)
<Keybuk> decide the environment and tell them ;-)
<mpt> mac_v, no idea. Presumably someone needs to change the package to set the pwstars option by default
<mac_v> hehe , david rejected it as a papercut twice .. and a similar bug got filed again today ;)
<pitti> mac_v: I assigned it to me for now, but it's really loooow prio
<mac_v> pitti: yup , sure its low.. thanks :)
<seb128> Keybuk, I only see a one second gap before gnome-settings-daemon there
<seb128> g-s-d takes some 1 second to set themes, etc
<chrisccoulson> you see a 1 second gap between gnome-session starting and g-s-d starting?
<seb128> then wm starts
<Keybuk> http://people.canonical.com/~scott/daily-bootcharts/20091126-max.png
<Keybuk> this shows it quite well
<Keybuk> the red dashed line is drawn where the session starts
<seb128> chrisccoulson, http://people.canonical.com/~seb128/bootchart/seb128-dellmini-lucid-20091126-28.png
<Keybuk> actually, look at 20 sorry
<Keybuk> http://people.canonical.com/~scott/daily-bootcharts/20091120-max.png
<Keybuk> a lot of that gap before compiz is quite easy to remove
<Keybuk> rather than do
<Keybuk> start prog 1
<Keybuk> prog 1 inits
<Keybuk> prog 1 does stuff
<Keybuk> prog 1 listens on a socket
<Keybuk> prog 1 sets environment
<seb128> yours is weird
<Keybuk> prog 1 start prog 2
<Keybuk> prog 2 ...
<Keybuk> etc.
<Keybuk> pre-set all the environment variables
<Keybuk> and start prog 1, 2, 3, 4 in parallel
<seb128> the one I did today has only 1 second before g-s-d start
<Keybuk> today's gnome is a bit off
<Keybuk> I'm not trusting it until I see repeatability on that :p
<seb128> why?
<Keybuk> because other things are broken
<seb128> I did some 25 charts today
<seb128> and the current ones don't have compiz
<Keybuk> there's still >1s after ssh-agent
<Keybuk> etc.
<seb128> g-s-d starts some 1.5 seconds after gnome-session
<Keybuk> 1.5s is almost half your budget
<Keybuk> 1.5s is a *LONG* time
<Keybuk> what is happening in those 1.5s ?
<seb128> I don't debate that
<Keybuk> are you really doing over 7.5 trillion operations?
<seb128> I agree we can win those
<seb128> but my current chart is 7 seconds without nautilus running
<seb128> so we still have 1.5s with no compiz nor nautilus nor x11 scripts...
<chrisccoulson> the delay between gnome-session starting and g-s-d starting is gconfd starting up
<seb128> we will need to add nautilus back
<chrisccoulson> thats the first thing that gnome-session does
<Keybuk> your chart has 3.5s between the session starting and the window manager starting
<Keybuk> why?
<Keybuk> that 3.5s should be 0
 * vuntz hates people working on gnome-session because it creates lots of highlight event in irc for him ;-)
<cassidy> seb128, did you already upload the gabble patch ?
<Keybuk> chrisccoulson: no it isn't
<seb128> cassidy, no
<Keybuk> the 3.5s is *before* gnome-session is started
<Keybuk> it's the ubuntu Xsession.d directory
<seb128> there is over 1 second wanted there
<seb128> g-s-d setting the theme etc
<seb128> gnome-session start those in order
<Keybuk> yes
<seb128> theme first, then wm, then rest of the world
<Keybuk> the g-s-d 1s is the bit I think is necessary of that
<cassidy> seb128, hang on then, I'll have a nice patch for you improving the whole proxy management
 * Amaranth crosses his fingers and runs dput
<seb128> cassidy, thanks
<Amaranth> well nothing exploded...
<Amaranth> [ubuntu/lucid] compiz 1:0.8.4-0ubuntu5 (Accepted)
 * Amaranth cheers
<seb128> Amaranth, congrats!
<Amaranth> and now I must run, going to a thanksgiving dinner
<Amaranth> seb128: thanks, hopefully it actually fixes the problem :)
<seb128> I will tell you once it's available there
<pitti> I'm off for today, still some gdm debugging to do, and then dinner/cinema
<seb128> pitti, enjoy
<seb128> pitti, I'm taking a swap day tomorrow
<seb128> so don't freak out if I'm not around
<pitti> enjoy!
<seb128> thanks
<cassidy> seb128, would be awesome if you could apply https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/telepathy-gabble/+bug/488709/comments/3 asap
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 488709 in telepathy-gabble "Please remove hard coded jabber file proxy" [Low,Fix committed]
<cassidy> so admins will stop bitching at us :)
<seb128> ok, will have a look
<cassidy> thanks
<seb128> Keybuk, ok, I moved Xsession.d away
<seb128> 8 seconds for desktop
<cassidy> seb128,  this patch has been reviewed and merged upstream btw
<seb128> with no Xsession.d, no compiz, no nautilus
<seb128> Keybuk, we will do what we can but my view is that it's going to be hard
<seb128> especially that everybody is busy with other things, ie nobody will be able to do that full time
<Keybuk> I didn't say it would be easy
<seb128> and we need a better backup plan than drop nautilus and compiz
<Keybuk> your priorities are between you and Rick ;)
<seb128> that's clearly not enough ;-)
<Keybuk> mutter is a reasonable replacement for compiz
<Keybuk> and it's arguable that desktop icons aren't a feature we care about ;)
<mpt> O_o
<seb128> Keybuk, well those 8 seconds are without compiz and no nautilus at all
<seb128> ie I removed it from the session components
<Keybuk> seb128: bootchart?
<Amaranth> So 8 seconds is the goal?
<Amaranth> Keybuk: mutter is slower and does less :)
<seb128> http://people.canonical.com/~seb128/bootchart/seb128-dellmini-lucid-20091126-52.png
<seb128> Keybuk, http://people.canonical.com/~seb128/bootchart/seb128-dellmini-lucid-20091126-52.png
<Keybuk> Amaranth: 4s
<Keybuk> seb128: you still have 1s before gnome-settings-daemon starts
<Keybuk> and 3s before most other things
<Amaranth> 4 seconds for the whole desktop? impossible
<Keybuk> Amaranth: why?
<Keybuk> xfce comes up in 1.5s
<seb128> xfce does nothing
<seb128> it has no menu by default
<seb128> no applet
<Keybuk> no, it does everything that gnome does
<Keybuk> as far as just about everyone except gnome developers are concerned
<Keybuk> you have a panel
<Keybuk> it has clock and network and stuff on it
<Keybuk> and a button to get your apps
<seb128> I've tried xfce during the sprint and honestly you can't compare both
<seb128> to add a GNOME applet you need a wrapper which takes some several meg of ram
<seb128> and you need one wrapper running by applet
<seb128> their places menu is just ugly
<seb128> their clock has no locations
<Keybuk> so?
<Keybuk> it takes 1.5s ;)
<Keybuk> you've got 4
<Keybuk> that's almost three times as long
<seb128> I don't think it's a good trade or something users want
<Keybuk> frankly, it really sounds like you don't even want to try
<Keybuk> so I suggest you talk to your manager
<seb128> user prefer taking 10 seconds to start and have something nice
<seb128> I didn't say I don't want to try
<Amaranth> How long do we take right now?
<Amaranth> subtract the 8 second compiz stall and what is the number?
<seb128> I would not have turned my netbook to a test box otherwise
<Keybuk> http://people.canonical.com/~scott/daily-bootcharts/ has the numbers
<seb128> it's just that I'm pretty sure we will not hit the target
<Keybuk> desktop is 13-14s currently
<Amaranth> ppc, ia64, and armel just FTBFS compiz
<seb128> let's be realistic
<Keybuk> seb128: with that attitude, we won't hit the target
<seb128> we can try but I don't want to promise things we will not deliver
<Keybuk> if you think it can't be done, you need to talk to your manager, and he needs to talk to Mark
<Keybuk> :)
<Keybuk> I know it can be done
<seb128> I've been doing that
<Keybuk> it's just hard
<seb128> there is no way we can do that with 1 GNOME maintainer this cycle
<seb128> they moved our second maintainer to oem
<seb128> reaching that target is not a side work some hours a week
<seb128> but you are right I should talk to my manager rather
<Keybuk> sure :-)
<Keybuk> I was surprised by that rotation
<Amaranth> Doesn't gnome-session do everything /etc/gdm/Xsession does?
<mnemo> jono: was it decided at UDS which Firefox release that will go into Lucid?
<Amaranth> Keybuk: your netbook isn't using KMS?
<Keybuk> it is
<Keybuk> though bear in mind that usplash does KMS "wrong"
<Keybuk> you still go back to KD_TEXT before X
 * Amaranth heads out
<mvo> mpt: no changes in non-apps since we talked last
<mvo> mpt: work items - give me a minute, I need to prepare
<mpt> ok
<mvo> mpt: non-apps> the de-duplication of pkg/apps is still a tricky buisiness
<mvo> mpt: http://paste.ubuntu.com/328687/ that would be my ordering (most important to least important)
<mvo> mpt: maybe with history one higher up, not sure
<mvo> mpt: foundations-lucid-software-center-repository-based-index is hard and we could live without, also its very nice to have
<mpt> mvo, here's mine: http://paste.ubuntu.com/328690/
<mpt> so we agree on #1
<mvo> mpt: not bad :)
<mpt> we differ mainly on the LP-related ones
<mvo> mpt: history requires some work on apt to be really useful, otherwise it will be limited to stuff that you installed via the center. but I agree that its not very important (also nice to have)
<mpt> yeah
<mpt> mvo, is that the sort of work David might be interested in?
<mvo> mpt: possibly, also he has already taken on some other challenges
<mvo> mpt: the libapt bits are hopefully not that hard, but might get a bit fiddly with the details
<mvo> mpt: i think we should move it up, but make a target of opporunity or something. having some design mockups would be nice too
<mpt> Well I definitely don't think it's more important than ratings and reviews :-)
<mvo> mpt: repository based indexes can be #2, I'm fine with that
<mpt> ok
<mvo> #5 then maybe?
<and471> mvo: (about the history stuff, in my history branch, there is parsing of the dpkg.log and an xml file that sofwtare-center can generate)
<mvo> and471: I would like to move that into libapt, because it known what actions belong together. the disadvantage of dpkg.log is that its hard to tell what operatons where one "transation" (apt run)
<mvo> and471: using dpkg.log is of course nice and the best we have for now
<mpt> mvo, I'm assuming for both repository-based-index and ratings-and-reviews that it will involve a bit of work from our part, and then a lot of work from the LP team while we work on other things. The main reason I put them high up is so that we unblock the LP team.
<and471> mvo: yup sure, just a proof of concept :-)
<mvo> mpt: right, so lets move history above -backend and I think we are mostly set
<mvo> and471: :) I still have not had a chance to look at this branch :/
 * mvo wants more time
<and471> mvo: hehe
<mpt> mvo, sounds good to me. What does -backend involve? I.e. "support packagekit session API elsewhere on desktop" means support it where, exactly?
<mvo> mpt: the session api should really be not part of that spec
<mvo> mpt: the idea is to provide a compatible (dbus) api  to PK so that stuff like nautilus can request installation of e.g. mime type based software
<mvo> mpt: glatzor was working on this, I think he made some good progress. but it really does not belong into this particular spec :)
<mvo> mpt: for some of the above specs I put workitems in, feel free to adjust/update with your own
<mpt> mvo, I saw that, thanks, I think I'll see if I can get some advice from rickspencer3 on how to integrate that with bugs that need fixing etc
<mvo> I think you can just add bugnumbers to it and leave the assignee out
<mvo> but I have not used it that much myself
<mpt> mvo, http://paste.ubuntu.com/328698/
<mpt> mvo, I mean bugs that are outside of any of those blueprints
<mpt> i.e. work items in general
<mvo> ok
<mvo> mpt: looks good now to me
<mpt> thanks mvo, I'll CC you on the reply
<mpt> mvo, now you've got me thinking about de-duplication of packages and applications
<mpt> mvo, one rule might be: If the package for application X is the only package that Depends: on package Y, then package Y should be hidden inside X
<mvo> mpt: interessting idea, for idea like this I can generate you code that tests this idea relatively easily and output what would be hidden. doing that in a realtime search is a bit more tricky though ;)
<mpt> mvo, that seems like it might require several iterations of trying it out, like the subcategories will
<and471> <and471> mvo: about the hardcoded values, is this any issue? The path to the icon is hardcoded (softwarecenter-progress.png) and so therefore it won't change
<and471> <and471> mvo: I have removed the duplicate function and per above I think it is now ready to merge :-) If not, please email me
<Tm_T> in my mind hardcoded paths are always unwanted unless there's really good reason
<seb128> hey robert_ancell
<robert_ancell> seb128, hey
<seb128> robert_ancell, did you need anything from me on the gir issue? or did you just copy me the email for information?
<robert_ancell> just for information.  I'm still not sure what to do but Joss pointed me to a document where gir policy has changed.  Will need to patch some packages
<seb128> which ones?
<seb128> we should just rebase on Debian
<robert_ancell> gnome-games :)
<robert_ancell> I think there were some others....
<seb128> ok
<fagan> bug hugger is awesome :)
 * fagan was just playing about rick"quickly"spencer3 did a great job
<Amaranth> wtf
<Amaranth> My package got rejected because someone else uploaded an ubuntu5 compiz package? :/
<fagan> Amaranth: bump the number then or just ask the person who uploaded the newer one
<Amaranth> First I have to figure out who uploaded the newer one
<Amaranth> And then beat them up for not pushing to bzr first :)
<seb128> Amaranth, no it didn't
<Amaranth> seb128: I got a rejected email from launchpad
<fagan> Look at the bzr changelog Amaranth
<seb128> Amaranth, https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/compiz/1:0.8.4-0ubuntu5
<seb128> you uploaded twice?
<Amaranth> no...
<Amaranth> weird
<Amaranth> anyway, yay
<seb128> dunno then
<seb128> but your upload made it
<fagan> is this for lucid
<seb128> yes
<Amaranth> seb128: Did you try it?
<TheMuso> Amaranth: according to lucid changes you uploaded ubuntu5.
<fagan> I got a failed upgrade of compiz
<seb128> Amaranth, no but I can do that now
 * fagan checks 
<Amaranth> fagan: Failed how?
<fagan> I have compiz.ubuntu5 and I get a could not calculate upgrade error and there are no other updates
<Amaranth> fagan: I need more details :)
<Amaranth> It may be the Qt transition..
 * fagan gos looking 
 * fagan realised that it would be a lot easier to find the info if he upgraded through terminal
<fagan> compiz-wrapper is the problem
<fagan> its asking to be removed
<seb128> why asking?
<seb128> did you divert that one?
<fagan> nope
<seb128> why would a package ask to change content...
<fagan> Calculating upgrade... Done
<fagan> The following packages will be REMOVED
<seb128> could you copy the error there?
<seb128> or on paste.ubuntu.com
<fagan> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/328894/
<Amaranth> fagan: It's supposed to get removed
<Amaranth> compiz-core Conflicts/Replaces it
<seb128_> re
<seb128_> disconnect
<seb128_> I was saying
<seb128_> could you copy the error there?
<Amaranth> seb128_: There is no error
<Amaranth> It is wanting to remove compiz-wrapper is all
<seb128_> oh ok, good
<fagan> when I try to do it in the update manager it gives a failed to calculate upgrade error
 * fagan gets the exact error 
<fagan> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/328896/
<fagan> The only problem I can see is compiz-wrapper
<fagan> seb128: ^^
<fagan> Amaranth: is that not a problem?
<Amaranth> fagan: Nope, compiz-wrapper is not used anymore
<fagan> Oh ok
<Amaranth> That's the point of the changes I've been making :)
 * fagan just thought it was used 
<fagan> My bad
<Amaranth> seb128: Did it help?
<seb128_> Amaranth, it seems
<Amaranth> yay
<seb128_> I will confirm with a bootchart next time I reboot
<seb128_> but starting a guest session takes some 5-6 seconds now
<seb128_> so it seems good
<Amaranth> awesome
<Amaranth> so with a warm cache we're close to the goal :)
#ubuntu-desktop 2009-11-27
<Amaranth> hmm, it sounds like gnome-appearance properties is doing something to compiz settings
<Amaranth> s/e p/e-p/
<Amaranth> I've gotten a couple bug reports about some compiz settings randomly getting reset but it seems to only happen when doing something else in g-a-p
<pitti> Good morning
<didrocks> hello pitti
<pitti> hey didrocks
<baptistemm> hello & good morning
<baptistemm> chrisccoulson, apparently you're now a father?
 * baptistemm is just 1 week late at least
<Tm_T> baptistemm: no, he is late, there's no flood of pictures in here (:
<seb128> hey there
<baptistemm> hi seb128
<didrocks> lut seb128
<didrocks> hey baptistemm
<seb128> salut baptistemm didrocks
<pitti> hey seb128
<pitti> seb128: good news wrt. boot speed: http://www.piware.de/2009/11/sudo-dpkg-p-hal/ :)
<pitti> seb128: hm, aren't you on vac today?
<seb128> hey pitti
<seb128> on swap day officially
<seb128> but I've a little ubuflu for some days and the weather is not so nice
<seb128> so I'm in a "staying inside and looking a boot speed" mood now
<seb128> great work ;-)
<soren> If having a swap day /and/ being ill doesn't stop you from working, what will? :)
<seb128> well, I slept in the morning and will probably be out in the afternoon
<seb128> but right now I'm doing some computer ;-)
<soren> Good boy :)
<seb128> pitti, btw, http://people.canonical.com/~seb128/bootchart/seb128-dellmini-lucid-20091127-2.png
<seb128> chart of the day, we are back on normal timing with compiz fixed
<pitti> good
<seb128> pitti, I did some playing yesterday, removed nautilus from the session, turned off compiz and moved Xsession.d away
<seb128> desktop loading was still some 7 seconds
<pitti> darn
<didrocks> soren: didn't you know that seb128 was unstoppable? :)
<soren> didrocks: Yes, I noticed :)
<pitti> but on your boot chart, compiz, nautilus, and gnome-panel each take 11 seconds still
<seb128> right
<pitti> hm, there's still xkbcomp, I thought that was gone now
<seb128> pitti, http://people.canonical.com/~seb128/bootchart/seb128-dellmini-lucid-20091126-52.png
<seb128> that's the no compiz, no nautilus, no Xsession.d
<pitti> ah, so there it's ssh-agent, g-s-d, and panel delays
<seb128> right
<seb128> I discussed with Scott yesterday
<seb128> I think we will need to go back to what old gnome-session did
<seb128> start everything together
<pitti> and defer drawing until g-s-d sends a signal "theme set"?
<seb128> we will never reach the target with ordering
<pitti> *nod*
<seb128> no
<seb128> just start everything
<seb128> we don't care about theme set, moving, flickering
<seb128> we don't show the desktop while loading
<pitti> right, but won't redrawing the desktop cost us more CPU?
<seb128> setting the theme etc takes some 1 second
<pitti> (on theme change)
<seb128> which is the g-s-d to next components delay
<seb128> well, that needs testing but my gut feeling is that it will cost less that the 1 second delay we have there...
<pitti> i. e. could nautilus'/panel's do_update_screen() whatever just return until it receives a signal from g-s-d?
<seb128> especially with duo cores
<pitti> ok, so let's shelve that idea until when we need it
<seb128> yes
<seb128> I think that signal thing makes sense
<seb128> but right now we block nautilus, etc start on theme to be set
<seb128> we should maybe block displaying on it
<seb128> this way we would do inits, loading, etc already
<pitti> right
<pitti> and perhaps we can load the extensions first, and then draw the desktop
<pitti> (or perhaps that already happens)
<seb128> but that's not something we can do from gnome-session
<seb128> yes, that already happens
<seb128> I would say drop the "wait on g-s-d" to start and see how it goes
<pitti> so in the usual case, we coudl think that panel loading menus, or nautlus loading extensions will usually take longer than g-s-d loading the theme, and we win
<seb128> there is a chance that the theme will be in place before nautilus reach the drawing code anyway...
<pitti> and if g-s-d is really slower, you get a redraw, but *shrug*, it's behind xsplash
<seb128> right
 * pitti hugs seb128
 * seb128 hugs pitti back
<pitti> seb128: how much work is it to drop the phase handling from g-s?
<seb128> I was just starting looking at that
<pitti> i. e. is it just changing the .desktop files/gconf keys, or does it require code changes?
<pitti> man, you rock
<seb128> I will do a first quick hack now
<seb128> ie edit desktop files and gconf keys
<seb128> not sure yet if code changes are required
<seb128> I just started with a drop from phases from autostart desktops there
<seb128> I will also empty required components
<seb128> and add normal autostarts for gnome-panel, compiz, nautilus
<seb128> let's see how that goes
<pitti> seb128: want me to add the dx work items into a desktop-lucid-dx-integration blueprint?
<mac_v> seb128: hi... I'm unable to find the dup of Bug #481411 .... the closest i could find is Bug #398110 , are you sure its been reported already... [or maybe i'm blind :(  ]
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 481411 in empathy "Empathy's chat service list is unordered and ugly" [Low,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/481411
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 398110 in empathy "add account dialog is confusing" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/398110
<seb128> mac_v, for one thing that bug describe severals issues
<mac_v> yeah , the second bug has many problem. but 481411 is only about the alignment
<seb128> mac_v, bug #437414
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 437414 in empathy "some protocol icons in create account dropdown menu are missing" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/437414
<seb128> for example
<mac_v> seb128: ah.. awesome , thanks
<seb128> you're welcome
 * seb128 kicks the session menu hibernate
<seb128> I keep selecting that by mistake
<seb128> no confirmation
<mac_v> seb128: i also do the same mistake ;) > Bug #367626
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 367626 in pm-utils "Hibernate does not ask for time-out confirmation" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/367626
<asac> pitti: what is desktop team doing to target specs for milestones accurately? do you split up specs to reflect things that will be done in two steps? e.g. first for alpha-2, rest for -3 etc.?
<pitti> asac: we don't split up, we just target them to a2, and then re-target later on for the remaining work items
<asac> ok thanks!
<pitti> asac: also, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WorkItemsHowto has some thoughts about splitting the WIs in the blueprint whiteboard
<asac> pitti: can i already use that syntax without breaking the parser?
<pitti> asac: sure, it will just look at "Work items:", not at anything else
<pitti> it's just for shelving future work items
<pitti> and track them without going into the parser while we are pre-alpha2
<asac> ah
<asac> ok so current ones go in Work items: ... and the future ones in something else ... makes sense
<asac> first thought we would use that syntax to target too ... but ok
<asac> so i am using: Work items for post-alpha-2:
<pitti> that should be fine
<pitti> asac: the only drawback is that it won't go into the "lucid" work item chart
<pitti> but we don't actually have (a lot of?) such "split" specs in desktop
<pitti> they are either completely for alpha-2, or just for final
<pitti> asac: for such finer-grained scheduling we probably need to switch to bugs
<asac> right. but the spec i am looking at is of the kind "investigate, document and defer new work items for post-alpha-2" anyway
<asac> so the work items would get expanded anyway
<asac> yeah. when do you think can we use bugs? this cycle?
<pitti> when there's a demand for it and someone (me?) finds time to implement it
<pitti> we didn't have a real demand for it so far
<asac> all fine.
<pitti> it's quite some overhead, so we don't want to use it for all WIs
<asac> right
<asac> i would think splitting up specs would be less overhead if we really want that
<asac> rather then editing bugs etc. for each item
<asac> pitti: how about parsing all work items.*: for the main trendline chart? so we can split up now and things we know about wouldnt be initially hidden?
<asac> (or later hidden)
<pitti> if you can invent an easy and robust syntax and semantics for that, sure
<pitti> could perhaps be
<asac> so basically have two parser runs: a) full cycle items: "work items.*" ... and b) target milestone tasks: "work items:"
<pitti> work items: -> (always considered)
<pitti> Work items (milestone-name): -> only considered for that particular milestone name
<pitti> asac: other way round rather, I guess?
<pitti> work items.*: -> always considered, rather
<asac> right like i said ;)
<seb128> pitti, http://people.canonical.com/~seb128/bootchart/seb128-dellmini-lucid-20091127-8.png
<seb128> ^ all started together
<pitti> asac: "work items:" would then just be for the entire cycle
<asac> both ways work i think.
<asac> so basically we have
<asac> Work items (next-milestone):
<asac> ...
<asac> and then for the rest we will schedule later
<pitti> seb128: now, that looks much more compact already
<asac> Work items:
<asac> whatever is easier for you to implement
<pitti> seb128: seems that pulseaudio is started three times?
<seb128> pitti, is it?
<pitti> seb128: by canberra-gtk, gnome-volume-applet, and again by gnome-session
<seb128> oh right
<seb128> weird
<seb128> that's one of those things it would maybe make sense to get starting earlier
<seb128> pitti, http://people.canonical.com/~seb128/bootchart/seb128-dellmini-lucid-20091127-15.png
<seb128> ^ without menus
<seb128> it's some 0.3s win
<seb128> not a lot
<pitti> a bit less CPU on panel, yes
<chrisccoulson> good morning everyone
<seb128> hey chrisccoulson
<seb128> how are you?
<seb128> hello Keybuk
<chrisccoulson> hey seb128. i'm ok thanks, how are you?
<seb128> good thanks
<Keybuk> morning(ish)
<seb128> Keybuk, http://people.canonical.com/~seb128/bootchart/seb128-dellmini-lucid-20091127-8.png
<pitti> hey chrisccoulson
<chrisccoulson> hey pitti, how are you?
<seb128> Keybuk, I did try to make every run as an application in gnome-session
<pitti> Keybuk: http://www.piware.de/2009/11/sudo-dpkg-p-hal/ *grin*
<pitti> chrisccoulson: I'm good, thanks!
<seb128> ie no early components blocking things
<Keybuk> seb128: that looks pretty good, no?
<seb128> better yes
<seb128> we still have a ~1s gap
<seb128> but I think it's gconfd as chrisccoulson pointed yesterday
<Keybuk> we probably need something between the two, in practice; a gnome-session that starts things in a certain order, but with no gaps
<chrisccoulson> i was going to do some profiling with gnome-session today to try and figure out what the gap is
<seb128> right
<seb128> chrisccoulson, you rock ;-)
<Keybuk> gconfd doesn't appear until later on your chart
<chrisccoulson> i tried last night, but when i ran gnome-session manually from xterm, i didn't see that delay :-/
<asac> pitti: so if we parse the way you suggested, wouldnt just "work items:" mean that those are targetted to whatever milestone the blueprint is targetted for?
<asac> rather than "entire cycle" (not that its really different)
<seb128> Keybuk, hum, it seems rather it's done loading around the time everything starts
<asac> e.g. moving towards targetting full blueprint from "first" delivery milestone to "final delivery"?
<chrisccoulson> Keybuk - "a gnome-session that starts things in a certain order, but with no gaps" should already happen with the current design, if clients register faster
<seb128> chrisccoulson, well, "if clients register faster"
<seb128> like g-s-d takes over 1 second
<seb128> to set themes, etc
<Keybuk> even if they registered at the top of main, you'd still be loading executables and relocating symbols in series
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - i don't understand why that happens actually. gnome-session doesn't wait for clients to register in the initialization phase (where g-s-d starts)
<chrisccoulson> it waits for them to exit before starting the next phase
<chrisccoulson> and g-s-d fork()'s before loading the plugins and setting the theme
<Keybuk> chrisccoulson: assumedly you wait for them to fork() ?
<chrisccoulson> Keybuk - yes
<Keybuk> that's the last thing most software does before entering its main loop
<Keybuk> so again, you're doing all the initialisation in series
<chrisccoulson> Keybuk - i'll have a look at g-s-d in a second, but I thought it fork()'ed before loading the plugins
<chrisccoulson> i might be wrong though
<seb128> http://people.canonical.com/~seb128/bootchart/seb128-dellmini-lucid-20091127-22.png
<seb128> http://people.canonical.com/~seb128/bootchart/seb128-dellmini-lucid-20091127-22.png is an empty gnome-panel
<seb128> lunch, bbl
<chrisccoulson> Keybuk - you're right. it fork()'s very early on, but the parent only terminates before entering the main loop (after loading the plugins)
<chrisccoulson> i'm not sure why it delays terminating the parent until then
<Keybuk> obviously sometimes letting everything run at once isn't the right solution either
<Keybuk> but most machines now have multiple cores
<Keybuk> so you can run multiple CPU-bound apps at once anyway
<Keybuk> and most aren't CPU bound, but doing syscalls
<Keybuk> (or IO which should already be in the page cache)
<chrisccoulson> i'll have a look at removing that delay later, but i want to try and figure out where this other 1 second goes first
<Keybuk> timechart may help more than bootchart at this stuff
<Keybuk> but requires kernel patching and struff
<chrisccoulson> timechart?
<chrisccoulson> ah, http://blog.fenrus.org/?p=5
<pitti> asac: that's what I mean with "not that easy to figure out a sensible semantics" :)
<asac> pitti: naturally i would think that blueprints should be targetted to the milestone when they are supposed to be completely done.
<pitti> asac: right; for those we wouldn't even use several "work item (milestone)" things
<asac> so if we really had the syntax you suggested (work items (milestone))
<asac> pitti: well. what i mean is if we hav a blueprint which is targetted for lets say beta-1, but have parts that should be done by alpha-2
<asac> it would just work to keep the blueprint targetted for beta-1
<asac> but have work items alpha-2
<asac> if a blueprint doesnt have the intermediate steps we would just have Work items:
<asac> feels sensible semantic to me ;)
<pitti> okay
<Keybuk> pitti: I feel that when the first daily image without HAL is done, we should hold a great, big, world-wide party
<pitti> Keybuk: the changes are all in the Debian experimental git branch (new x server, udevification, and my udev rules), so I hope we can upgrade to that next week
<pitti> yay for celebrations :)
<Keybuk> I didn't think our X was based on Debian?
<pitti> it should be nowadays
<pitti> well, perhaps not the server itself, I don't know
<pitti> but I thought we'd regularly merge
<Keybuk> no idea
<Amaranth> Could gnome-settings-daemon delay calling xrdb until after everything else is loaded?
<Amaranth> hrm, compiz is chewing CPU for about 10 seconds there
<Amaranth> So I'm thinking of patching compiz so it's not possible to set "edge" bindings
<Amaranth> So you can't have a compiz action happen by moving your mouse to the top, bottom, left, or right of your screen
<Amaranth> hmm, and if we're going to force our new default settings on upgrades to lucid we can cleanup the patches and packaging that set defaults as well
<seb128> re
<seb128> Amaranth, did you have a look at splitting compiz binaries?
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - gnome-session blocks for 600ms here in gsm_manager_new. i haven't gone any further yet, but that will probably be the preloading of gconf keys
<seb128> chrisccoulson, ok
<seb128> so you were guessing right with gconf yesterday
<chrisccoulson> possibly, i need to make it more verbose just to make sure, but i can't see anything else in there that would take that much time
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - also, 200ms loading the desktop files in /etc/xdg/autostart
<Keybuk> preloading of gconf keys?
<Keybuk> preloading implies it's not actually using them?
<Keybuk> what happens if you just take that out
<chrisccoulson> Keybuk - the preloaded keys are used to build the required components list a little while later
<chrisccoulson> s/a little while later/straight after
<Keybuk> that seems like a long time
<chrisccoulson> i'm just doing another build with it broken down further, so i can see where the time is spent
<chrisccoulson> but it doesn't seem that long if gconfd is still loading it's XML files
<chrisccoulson> Keybuk, so, the biggest delays at the start of gnome session seem to be ~500ms loading GConf keys, 200ms loading desktop files and ~100ms in gtk_init
<Keybuk> so if I gave you half the time to do that in, what would you change? :)
<chrisccoulson> replace gconf with dconf ;)
<chrisccoulson> but i'm wondering if we can start gconfd before the session starts (ie, from a script in Xsession.d)
<chrisccoulson> and whether it would actually make any difference
<and471_> mpt: any decisions on the appdetails throbber thing?
<mpt> and471_, I need to find out somewhere how to slow down my Internet connection to test it
<mpt> I know there's a command line to use to make it slower
<mpt> but I don't know what it is
<and471_> mpt: did trickle not work?
<mpt> ah, trickle, is that what it is
 * mpt installs it
<and471_> mpt: google 'linux slow down internet connection trickle'
<and471_> mpt: and see you later :-)
<czajkowski> mpt: aloha there
<czajkowski> :)
<mpt> kia ora
<chrisccoulson> Keybuk - I just tried starting my session with an already running gconfd process, and the preloading time in gnome-session went from ~500ms to ~150ms
<chrisccoulson> but i don't know how we'd start it early enough to avoid this delay
<Keybuk> Xsession.d ?
<chrisccoulson> I think I'm going to try that. i was going to do it earlier but had to disappear somewhere else instead
<chrisccoulson> and maybe we could make a cache of the autostart desktop files to shrink the other 200ms too
<and471> mpt: any luck?
<mpt> and471, I tried it, and I think it's better to show the throbber
<mpt> and471, maybe one way of making it look better on a fast connection is to not show the throbber until 2 seconds after the screenshot starts loading
<mpt> That way if it loads within 2 seconds, the throbber doesn't get shown at all.
<and471> mpt: okay
<and471> mpt: currently I am trying to use webkit's animation functionality, I have done it on the department view and I am now going to try the appdetailsview
<and471> however after sunday I really cannot do anymore work :-)
<mpt> and471, what's happening on Sunday?
<and471> mpt: well after that I have exams :-/
<mpt> ah
<mpt> Best of luck with those
<mpt> and thanks for all your contributions :-)
<and471> mpt: sure :-)
<chrisccoulson> Keybuk - are you running i386 or amd64? mind testing a build of gnome-session with no preload on your reference machine? it seems to speed things up here, but my bootchart results are all over the place at the moment (running in virtualbox)
<Keybuk> i386
<Keybuk> I don't have test reference machines atm though
<Keybuk> they're both doing reinstalls
<Keybuk> so if you don't mind waiting a few hours?
<chrisccoulson> yeah, thats ok
<chrisccoulson> i've hosted the files here: http://people.ubuntu.com/~chrisccoulson/gnome-session-no-gconf-preloading/
<chrisccoulson> i'll probably try some more things shortly
<chrisccoulson> the changelog is not very verbose though ;)
<chrisccoulson> but that build completely disables preloading, and also writes some timestamps in ~/.xsession-errors
<mpt> robbiew_, could you please set me as drafter for foundations-lucid-non-applications-in-software-center, foundations-lucid-ratings-and-reviews-in-software-center, foundations-lucid-software-center-subcategories, and foundations-lucid-user-contributed-metadata-for-software-center?
<robbiew_> ok
<mpt> thanks
<robbiew_> mpt: done
<mpt> ta
<pitti> good night everyone
<chrisccoulson> good night pitti
<mpt> bratsche, were you in the accessibility-by-default UDS session? If so, do you remember if it was written up anywhere? I don't see a Gobby document
<mpt> Hey, it's gilir, maintainer of my favorite PPA
<gilir> mpt: hi, why ?
<tgpraveen11> mpt: if i read the notification spec correct, the do not distrub mode will be automatically triggered by apps? meaning if i go fullscreen in totem, then automatically i will be in dnd mode?
<tgpraveen11> please tell me i read it wrong.
<mpt> tgpraveen11, meaning you should be able to configure whether Totem going into full-screen suppresses non-urgent notifications or not.
<tgpraveen11> yes that is what i want. is that what is planned?
<mpt> yes
<tgpraveen11> mpt:^^?
<tgpraveen11> oh ok. thats great. will it be global or per app. like i set my status to DND and all apps accept it or in each app i have to set it?
<mpt> tgpraveen11, per-app
<tgpraveen11> mpt: hmm is there any reason for per app? in the karmic cycle the documentation mentioned doing it global iirc. also can you shed some light on how one would set it per app? i mean like will totem have a menu item for this
<mpt> tgpraveen11, a global option would be pretty meaningless -- Hide non-urgent notifications: (*) Never  ( ) Sometimes
<mpt> Individual apps can do a better job of presenting the option in an understandable way
<mac_v> mpt: hi... are we not supposed to change the icon firefox on the panel ?
<mpt> mac_v, change it to what?
<mac_v> mpt: monochrome > http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1325768/Screenshot.png
<tgpraveen11> hmm i was thinking more like in the user switch applet the status could be available() DND(*)  .
<tgpraveen11> this would make more sense as once done it affects all apps. and this was what was there in the doc originally as well
<mpt> mac_v, no, that's just for the status icons -- application icons should be left as they are
<mpt> mac_v, and anyway, we couldn't legally alter the Firefox icon even if we wanted to
<mac_v> ah ok ;)
<tgpraveen11> and say i dont want to be disturbed for 1 hour i just set it and do my business what i want
<tgpraveen11> but per app each time i watch a movie, open a pdf etc i would have to set it.
 * mac_v hates legalities ;p
<tgpraveen11> also a global DND helps when i am not using fullscreen apps but just dont want to be disturbed with my work
<tgpraveen11> mpt: ^^
<czajkowski> aloha
<czajkowski> anyone alive for a daft question?
<czajkowski> did an update recently and looked at my options under applications and the ubuntu software center is missing ??? any idea
<czajkowski> I'm not the only person missing it, JanC is also
<czajkowski> I just did apt-get install gnome-app-install and got back the add/remove  options
<JanC> seems like I have a .local/share/applications/gnome-app-install.desktop / removing that now...
<JanC> so, that makes that disappear
<JanC> but still no software center...
<czajkowski> hmmm
<czajkowski> it's very odd as I know it was there, but no idea when it went or why it went
<JanC> idem  âº
<czajkowski> typical friday adn I break things
<czajkowski> JanC: is your add/remove populated with stuff??
<JanC> add/remove didn't work as gnome-app-install wasn't installed (leftover .desktop file for some reason?)
<czajkowski> add/remove for me wasn't there, so did apt-get install and there is it
<JanC> yeah, after removing the leftover .desktop file under ~/.local it went away here too
<JanC> BTW, installing it removes software-center  ;)
<czajkowski> JanC: but mine wasnt there
<JanC> the package you mean?
<JanC> I just removed & re-installed software center and it's still not in the menu
<czajkowski> add/remove wasnt there
<JanC> I had a leftover user .desktop file for add/remove for some reason which probably caused the menu to be shown, so removing it removed the menu entry, but software-center didn't come back
<czajkowski> so I should it?
<JanC> I asked somebody else and he doesn't have this issue  :-/
<czajkowski> ah feck
<czajkowski> JanC: log a bug and i'll comment
<JanC> not sure against what to file the bug yet
<czajkowski> thats always my issue :(
<JanC> czajkowski: do you have ubuntustudio-menu installed ?
<JanC> or something similar ?
<JanC> removing that solved it for me...
<czajkowski> nope
<czajkowski> tis damn flippin' odd
<JanC> and now I have a 2 screens high audio/video menu again, *sigh*
<czajkowski> hmm sorry I mentioned it now
<czajkowski> as now it's annoying me
<JanC> do you have any menu-related packages installed ?
<czajkowski> wine?
<JanC> I have wine installed too, and I get the software center menu now
<JanC> edubuntu-menus, extra-xdg-menus ?
<czajkowski> I'll do another update
<czajkowski> nope, nope
<czajkowski> it was there till wednesday and after that i can't be sure, but I've not installed any new things
<czajkowski> hmm restart
<Amaranth> JanC: The desktop file was a leftover from alacarte due to you editing your menu
<czajkowski> JanC: no difference
<czajkowski> Amaranth: what is alacarte?
<JanC> Amaranth: I doubt I ever consciously edited *that* menu entry (but maybe accidentally?)
<JanC> alacarte is the menu editor
<JanC> which Amaranth wrote long ago  ;)
<czajkowski> yup we;; I've definately not been editing it
<czajkowski> ;)
<czajkowski> *we'll
<JanC> well, the menu item comes & goes when I install/remove ubuntustudio-menus
<JanC> that might give some clue  âº
<czajkowski> so we can blame ubuntu studio :)
<JanC> right, that one references gnome-app-install.desktop instead of ubuntu-software-center.desktop
<JanC> but you said you don't have it?
<czajkowski> I've ubuntu studio theme installed not menu
<JanC> doesn't look like that pulls anything weird in
<JanC> czajkowski: the menu is a combination of '/etc/xdg/menus/applications.menu', '~/.config/menus/applications.menu' plus whatever can be found in '~/.local/share/applications/'
<JanC> I think
<JanC> okay, this is the ubuntustudio-menu issue: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntustudio-menu/+bug/479156
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 479156 in ubuntustudio-menu "gnome-app-install instead of ubuntu-software-center" [Undecided,In progress]
<JanC> czajkowski: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/software-center/+bug/477127 might be useful too
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 477127 in software-center "menu for software-center is missing " [Undecided,Confirmed]
<czajkowski> JanC: cheers
<JanC> you might want to comment on the last one and tell them the first one isn't the same issue  ;)
<JanC> (but maybe related)
<czajkowski> ah ok
#ubuntu-desktop 2009-11-28
<JanC> at least, it's not the same issue for you
<czajkowski> nods
<czajkowski> thanks
<JanC> but probably something is wrong with one of the menu definition files
<cj> I'm looking to get a new laptop.  how well is the new lenovo hardware supported?  I'm tired of the SONY way.
<asac> cj: what do you consider new lenovo hardware?
<mac_v> chrisccoulson: hi.. how are you subscribed to bugs? you seem to be subscribed to several packages :)
<asac> mac_v: not sure what you ask for, but if you are subscribed to package its technically a different subscription than being explicitly subscribed ... at least a few devs here have rules that boost bugmail with explicit subscription etc.
<mac_v> asac: yeah , i'v seen several do that... bug i just went through some 200 odd papercut bugs , and i noticed chrisccoulson reply on several different packages.. so i was just wondering if he was subscribed to all ubuntu packages :)
<mac_v> s/bug i/but i *
<asac> most likely to a bunch of desktop packages :)
<asac> which are probably the ones targetted most for papercuts
<mac_v> yeah , maybe :)
<asac> or desktop-bugs list
<asac> or maybe just subscribed to hunderdpapercuts itself :)
<mac_v> if anyone was subscribed to the papercuts... today , they would have just gone crazy today... ;p
<mac_v> in 4-5hrs they would have received 200+ mails ;)
<chrisccoulson> mac_v - i'm not subscribed to many packages
<chrisccoulson> just a handful of core gnome ones
<chrisccoulson> i have a quick look through the open bugs every now and again though, which is probably why you see me comment on a few ;)
<mac_v> yeah should have guessed Chris Ccoulson Core dev ;)
<chrisccoulson> i'm not a core dev ;)
<mac_v> just kidding ;p
<chrisccoulson> heh
<mac_v> chrisccoulson: damn i missed the chance :(  ....  Chris "Core" Coulson sounds cooler ;)
<chrisccoulson> lol
#ubuntu-desktop 2009-11-29
<Lucho_33> Hi, can some one help me installing ubuntu?
<Lucho_33> I put the CD and it seems to start, but neither mouse or keyboard works
<fagan> Lucho_33: ask in #ubuntu this channel is for talk about developing ubuntu
<Lucho_33> ok, thanks
<cj> asac: the stuff on the market now
<lipinski> Anyone on here get Pidgin to work for video chat with GMail Web client?
<fagan> lipinski: this isnt a support channel ask questions in #ubuntu
<fagan> empathy supports video pidgin I think added it a while back but its probably not as stable as empathy
<fagan> so my suggestion is use emapathy
<fagan> *empathy
<cj> I'm thinkin' I'll get this one:
<cj> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834220605
<cj> eeejay_away: !
<cj> eeejay_away: how's things?
<hyperair> does anyone know if there's a way to stop pidgin from spawning evolution-data-server?
<hyperair> for some reason, even idling, e-d-s takes up a crapload of ram >_>
#ubuntu-desktop 2010-11-29
<robert_ancell> ari-tczew, sure, np
<pitti> Good morning
<jasoncwarner> Morning, pitti
<pitti> hey jasoncwarner, how are you? had a nice weekend?
<RAOF> A fine morning to you too, pitti
<jasoncwarner> Pretty good! I hope you did as well.
<pitti> hey RAOF, how are you?
<RAOF> Pretty good.
<RAOF> Played quite a cool new board/card game yesterday - Race for the Galaxy.  Fun.
<RAOF> Also, I think I've worked out how to get unity to actually build debugging symbols!
<RAOF> Why do people continually reinvent slightly different versions of autotools? :)
<pitti> because that is so much fun!
<RAOF> I suspect it's a rash of people saying âHow hard could it beâ¦â who haven't watched Top Gear!
<TheMuso> Morning pitti, hello jasoncwarner.
<bilalakhtar> Hello there TheMuso !
<TheMuso> Hey bilalakhtar.
<lifeless> RAOF: 'because autotools are crap and I know how to do better'
<RAOF> lifeless: How hard could it beâ¢
<lifeless> |==================================================/-|
<pitti> is that your progress bar for thinking?
<lifeless> for how hard it is :)
<didrocks> good morning
<TheMuso> Hey didrocks.
<didrocks> hey TheMuso, good week-end?
<TheMuso> Does anybody else not have a network manager applet on their panel? nm-applet is running.
<didrocks> unity panel or gnome-panel?
<TheMuso> GNOME
<TheMuso> I can't use unity just yet.
<RAOF> nm doesn't yet have an indicator, does it?
<TheMuso> Its in the works afaik, but even a legacy applet would do me atm.
<TheMuso> I am on a desktop so I don't *really* need it, but still.
<pitti> RAOF: would it be possible to link r300_dri.so and r600g_dri.so against libdricore.so as well?
<pitti> RAOF: seems the compressed reduction was less than we hoped for -- or does the current mesa already contain the new gallium drivers?
<pitti> mvo: good morning
<pitti> mvo: had a nice weekend?
<pitti> mvo: FYI, I'm working on a GTK3 version in python-aptdaemon-gtk
<pitti> we need both in parallel, since software-center still uses pygtk2, but my new gtk3 language-selector port needs aptdaemon's gtk3 widgets
<didrocks> pitti: if it can help you space-wise, I can remove libunity-misc0 and the unity-place* for alpha1, but they will come back soonâ¦
<pitti> didrocks: nah, don't remove stuff which we'll need
<didrocks> ok :)
<pitti> I'd rather see everything that we need right now, and then we can work towards a relatively fixed target
<RAOF> pitti: Those are the gallium drivers; I switched them on at the same time.
<pitti> RAOF: ah, good
<RAOF> So mesa is not going to grow appreciably from here on in.
<didrocks> pitti: well, there is still maybe banshee once the MIR is reviewed.
<RAOF> Unless, of course, we decide we want to build against llvm :)
<pitti> an OO.o rebuild would help a lot, but we'll still need an actual maintainer for that
<didrocks> pitti: do you think you'll get in shape for A1? 19 MiB of oversize seems a real challenge :)
<pitti> RAOF: could these gallium drivers link against dricommon.so?
<pitti> didrocks: no, I don't think so; we just need to cope for a1
<micahg> there's still yelp
<didrocks> ok :)
<pitti> micahg: right, we still have xulrunner
<micahg> couchdb has already been updated to only need mozjs
<pitti> but I don't consider oversizedness a blocker for Alpha-1
<RAOF> pitti: Possibly; they won't shrink as much as the other dri drivers, and the gallium build is labyrnthine.
<pitti> RAOF: ah, so that wasn't just a trivial oversight then
<RAOF> No.  I tried moderately hard :)
<mvo> hey pitti, good monring! yeah, good weekend, you too ?
<mvo> pitti: aha, nice to hear that you work on a gtk3 version
<pitti> mvo: yes, we did; moved to Munich with my wife, I'll stay here for a week
<pitti> mvo: long dependency chain; I started on language-selector, which needs aptdaemon, which in turn would need a GIR for VTE
<mvo> pitti: nice! close to glatzor :)
<pitti> mvo: I'll disable AptTerminal in the Gtk3 version for now, I don't need it in language-selector
<mvo> pitti: for language-selector we can probably get away without a terminal
<mvo> heh :) same thought
<pitti> mvo: that's next on my list, and once it's working, I'll put it back, ok?
<mvo> sounds good! thanks for working on tihs
<pitti> but getting gtk3demo.py to work is quite a lot of exercise even without the terminal :)
<pitti> some pygi glitches to workaround, and current bzr head has some other bugs, too
<mvo> I can imagine, its great that you trailblaze it, then for me (and the others) the porting will be much easier
<pitti> *nod*
<pitti> that's the idea -- start with the small projects, and work "upwards"
<mvo> !
<mvo> :)
<mvo> pitti: will you permanently move to munich? or go back and forth between it and dresden?
<pitti> mvo: it's pretty short this time, just until Jan 30 for her
<pitti> I'll stay this week, and another week in January
<pitti> mvo: she'll come home over christmas/new year
<mvo> aha
<rodrigo_> morning
<dpm> good morning everyone!
<dpm> I've got a question if anyone can help me. When working upstream, translators generally only translate the trunk versions. When we however use an older version than upstream in our packages (e.g. gnome-system-monitor 2.28 instead of 2.32), the newest translations don't get imported (unless they've committed them as well to the older branch and there's bee an update to the package). That's no big deal, but it would be useful to have a list of the main
<dpm> GNOME packages and their versions. Or even better, a list with those packages which are at least a version behind upstream's.
<dpm> Does anyone know an easy way to obtain this list? Thanks!
<rodrigo_> hi dpm
<dpm> buenas rodrigo_ :)
<rodrigo_> dpm, http://people.canonical.com/~platform/desktop/versions.html ?
<dpm> rodrigo_, that'll be really helpful already, thanks! But do you know any way to obtain that list on the command line, to filter so that the e.g. gnome modules with older versions than the upstream ones could be shown?
<rodrigo_> dpm, see at the bottom of the page, there's the bzr branch that contains the code for that page
<dpm> rodrigo_, ah, awesome, thanks!
<TheMuso> didrocks: Oh missed your weekend query earlier, yes had a nice weekend thanks.
<didrocks> :)
<pitti> mvo: I hope these "Hola", "Servus", "Heya" status signals just happen in --dummy mode? :-)
<pitti> install/remove cw work now \o/
<mvo> pitti: cool
<mpt> mvo, if you have time today, could you read through <https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SoftwareCenter/RatingsAndReviews> and tell me what's good or bad, what needs changing, etc?
<mvo> mpt: sure, I looked over the diffs while you edited it and it looks good, I may have some small comments
<mvo> mpt: but let me read it from start to finish to get the full picuture
<mvo> picture
<mpt> mvo, thanks, I can get on Mumble if you want to talk through it
<mvo> ok, sounds good. I read it in some minutes (just need to finish some u-m work)
<mpt> ok
<seb128> heloo there!
<seb128> hello
<pitti> bonjour seb128
<seb128> hey pitti
<seb128> how are you?
<pitti> I'm great, thanks! Moving to Munich worked well
<pitti> we've been at the Christmas fair yesterday afternoon
<pitti> and in the evening we watched Harry Potter 7
<seb128> seems like a nice we!
<pitti> indeed
<didrocks> salut seb128
<pitti> and in the train I ported language-selector to gtk3/pygi :)
<seb128> lut didrocks
<seb128> pitti, ;-)
<pitti> well, started, anyway
<pitti> I need aptdaemon first
<seb128> seems you are on speed with pygi now
<seb128> ok
<pitti> which I'm currently working on
<pitti> and I'm currently stumbling over all the bugs in aptdaemon :)
<mvo> mpt: in the moderating section, there are some image references, but the images are missing. is that intentional for later or a oversight?
<mpt> mvo, arriving today
<mvo> mpt: ok, thanks
<seb128> didrocks, is unity worth testing today?
<didrocks> seb128: yeah, not crashing a lot, I'll upload a new compiz in few minutes for the migration stuff and getting -dbgsym package, so maybe wait for that?
<mvo> mpt: I read through it and I think some of the suggested defaults are not ideal for the devel release. i.e. defaulting to "active" reivews when we have no reviewers team is not ideal. a better solution might be to only require a single "is inappropriate" vote to make it disappear (we can and most likely will tune that threshold as we gain more experience). the other is "all language" as the default. I think a better default is "language fami
<mvo> ly" but if that is empty, make it easy/obivious how to switch to "all" (and at least initial a option like "my langauge + english" is probably helpful until we have enough reviews that this is not really needed anymore)
<seb128> well I can try already, I will not have settings migration on my account since I already ran the new one
<didrocks> seb128: there is still, but there is a bug that can make compiz crash at start, I have a fix now
<seb128> ok
<seb128> I will wait then
<mpt> mvo, I need to talk with sg about who will do the moderation. We might run it like Launchpad's CHR, where people have a day every month or something.
<mpt> mvo, I agree it would be bad to have active moderation and no moderators. :-)
<mvo> what is LP CHR?
<mvo> I imagined that we would try to get a moderators community team
<seb128> pitti, bug #678423 is a side-effect of your g-s-d update
<mpt> mvo, Community Help Rotation. Each member of the Launchpad team has one day every couple of months or so where they are responsible for clearing support requests etc
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 678423 in rhythmbox (Ubuntu) "Keyboard shortcut Super+p causes entire screen to redraw (affects: 3) (heat: 513)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/678423
<mvo> especially as this feature will initially debut in natty I think the risks of starting with passive reviews is not that great
<mvo> mpt: aha, thanks. yeah, that is probably a great way to kickstart
<pitti> mvo: I can now update, install, remove, and upgrade; "install file.." is broken (also in the gtk2 lib)
 * pitti dances happily
<pitti> seb128: right, a bit unfortunate; it grabs the keybinding now
<mvo> pitti: nice
<seb128> pitti, I've read a bunch of users questions about that for a week
<mvo> pitti: hm, broken in what way? bt?
<pitti> the dialogs still look a bit ugly, since they unfortunately have just one huge label
<pitti>   File "/home/martin/upstream/python-defer/defer/__init__.py", line 428, in defer
<pitti>     result = func(*args, **kwargs)
<pitti> TypeError: InstallFile() takes exactly 4 non-keyword arguments (2 given)
<pitti> mvo: ^
<pitti> mvo: seems easy to fix, though
<pitti> mvo: that's new from 0.40 (upstream trunk), presumably not yet in our natty version
<pitti> I'm doing the branch against upstream
<mvo> yeah
<mvo> there are some API changes
<pitti> mvo: but I'm also running aptd from trunk
<pitti> (it falls apart completely if I run it against 0.33 from natty)
<mpt> mvo, I've just changed the default language setting as you suggested
<mvo> thanks mpt
<pitti> mvo: hm, it's not actually that trivial; I guess I'll leave that for now
<pitti> mvo: https://code.launchpad.net/~pitti/aptdaemon/gtk3gi/+merge/42088 is now ready; works fine with language-selector
<mvo> pitti: ok
<mvo> thanks!
<seb128> didrocks, weird
<seb128> so I've activated unity in ccsm and restarted compiz
<seb128> but I get no unity on screen
<seb128> no bar at the top of the screen
<seb128> no left side launchers
<didrocks> seb128: hum? and what do you have on the command line?
<seb128> didrocks, it's working now
<didrocks> seb128: normally, if you upgraded recently, it should be the default as well
<didrocks> (it seems that notify-osd is broken  when you restart compiz btw)
<didrocks> I didn't get any notification about your pingâ¦
<seb128> reduced IRC noise, great
<seb128> great for you ;-)
<seb128> so I started compiz from a vt
<seb128> it loaded the ini backend and none of the option in the config
<seb128> now I did a compiz --replace in my session
<seb128> unity is working and that didn't hang, weird
<didrocks> ok, so you're strike by the ini transition backend bug I guess
<seb128> dunno
<didrocks> as in the vt, there is no env variable to force loading the gconf settings :)
<seb128> but running compiz from a vt
<didrocks> and so, unity
<seb128> DISPLAY=.. compiz
<seb128> doesn't use anything configure
<seb128> hum
<seb128> I did select manually the gconf backend in ccsm last week
<seb128> before any transition
<seb128> it should not be a "transition" bug
<didrocks> weird, you should have the default profile with gconf then
<didrocks> really dunno :)
<seb128> ok, no worry
<seb128> it works now
<seb128> out of the fact that I lost my grid geometry
<didrocks> yeah, all your settings are the defaults now in the unity session
<seb128> well, I had a 3x2 workspaces layout
<didrocks> you can get all your lovely settings in the gnome-classic session
<seb128> I'm back to the default one after upgrade
<didrocks> yeah, because as said, all your defaults set manually in ccsm are reset in the gnome session (but still there in gnome-classic)
<didrocks> then, the fact that compiz doesn't pick gnome gconf value is another bug
<seb128> hum
<seb128> I'm in a GNOME session
<didrocks> rightâ¦
<seb128> I didn't restart my session today
<seb128> I just did a compiz --replace
<seb128> didrocks, I'm not running any of the session change you did last week
<didrocks> still old compiz?
<seb128> I started that box this morning without any of the friday updates
<seb128> I upgraded compiz and unit
<didrocks> hum
<seb128> unity
<didrocks> ah
<seb128> then did compiz --replace
<mpt> mvo, one thing I forgot to include is a "Tweet this review" checkbox :-) (replacing the existing "Share..." link)
<didrocks> hum, so you don't have any env | grep COMPIZ variable?
<seb128> no
<seb128> $ env | grep COMPIZ
<seb128> $
<didrocks> oh right
<didrocks> so the gconf transition has failed :)
<didrocks> but the gconf path changed
<didrocks> it's now compiz-1, as it is for the ini backend
<didrocks> and normally, the transition script make the copy
<didrocks> but there was a case where glib wasn't initialized, and so, failâ¦
<seb128> but why do I need a transition?
<seb128> I went to ccsm and set my settings back
<seb128> they just have no effect
<didrocks> because /apps/compiz -> /apps/compiz-1
<seb128> same in the wnck applet
<seb128> ccsm should work still?
<didrocks> sure
<didrocks> don't sure to follow you, there was a missing renaming in gconf
<didrocks> now, the backend has it
<seb128> ok, so I guess several issues
<seb128> I didn't get the transition done for me
<seb128> which is fine it's my fault to running things by hand
<seb128> but now I've changed it back in ccsm
<seb128> but compiz doesn't pick the layout set there
<didrocks> oh, I didn't understand it doesn't pick the layout?
<didrocks> humâ¦
<seb128> no
<didrocks> can we have a look at little bit later then?
<seb128> yes
<seb128> no worry
<didrocks> I want to finish my compiz upload
<seb128> sure
<didrocks> thanks :)
<seb128> let's do that after lunch
<didrocks> sure :)
<seb128> it's time to eat there
<seb128> didrocks, thanks
<didrocks> seb128: yw, enjoy your lunch :)
<seb128> thanks
<chrisccoulson> hmmm, i'm wondering if anybody actually uses edbrowse :/
<nessita> hello all!
<chrisccoulson> hi nessita!
<nessita> didrocks: hey there, would you have any news for me re the sponsoring for the ubunutone-control-panel?
<didrocks> nessita: yeah, I've reviewed it this week-end, looks good :) Just need testing (will do this afternoon), then upload + NEWing, right?
<nessita> didrocks: yes :-) thanks!
<didrocks> yw :)
<didrocks> nessita: http://paste.ubuntu.com/537854/
<nessita> didrocks: looking
<nessita> didrocks: missing dep added to debian/control and changes pushed to lp:~nataliabidart/+junk/ubuntuone-control-panel-natty-release
<didrocks> nessita: right :)
<didrocks> nessita: grab and testing
<nessita> I wonder why python-mkdebian didn't catch that
<seb128> hey nessita
<nessita> hey seb128, how are you?
<didrocks> nessita: because it's not a python dep?
<seb128> I'm fine thanks
<seb128> how are you?
<nessita> didrocks: it is a python dep (from my POV, not sure how you define a python dep :-))
<nessita> seb128: pretty pretty good!
<didrocks> nessita: it's not, the gir and typelib and language independent, it's not a python module as is :)
<didrocks> but yeah, that's a wishlist to add to python-distutils-extra
<didrocks> nessita: apart from that, this panel looks good :)
<nessita> didrocks: awesome
<didrocks> nessita: do you want me to push the released branch somewhere particular or just lp:ubuntu/ubuntuone-control-panel once it will be NEWed?
<nessita> didrocks:  lp:ubuntu/ubuntuone-control-pane please
<nessita> lp:ubuntu/ubuntuone-control-panel*
<didrocks> ok :)
<didrocks> seb128: new package to be NEWed for you! (waow, awesome way to avoid ccsm question  ;))
<seb128> nessita's?
<rodrigo_> can I get a review and upload of this https://code.launchpad.net/~rodrigo-moya/ubuntu/natty/gnome-panel/fix-introspection/+merge/42100 ?
<rodrigo_> seems I finally found the cause for the invest applet not working!! :)
<seb128> rodrigo_, hey
<rodrigo_> hi seb128
<seb128> I can do that in a bit yes
<rodrigo_> sorry, didn't say hi, been busy the whole morning with this
<rodrigo_> so hi all :)
<didrocks> seb128: yeah, nessita's one, ubuntuone-control-panel
<rodrigo_> seb128, ok, thanks
<seb128> rodrigo_, do you need the makefile -v addition or was that debugging?
<seb128> didrocks, nessita can wait after ccsm I'm sure :p
<rodrigo_> seb128, that's debugging, removing it
<seb128> rodrigo_, thanks
<didrocks> seb128: I don't tend to agree in that particular case, don't know why :-)
<didrocks> seb128: more seriously, just 5 min and it will be ok
<seb128> lol
<seb128> ok
<didrocks> thanks :)
<nessita> seb128: what did I do? (besides making some mate)
<nessita> rodrigo_: how's your mate foo going?
<didrocks> seb128: ok, ready. I must warn you that the changes you are doing now will only affect the gnome-classic session as at next session restart, you will be in the unity profile
<seb128> nessita, I was just joking in reply to "<didrocks> seb128: new package to be NEWed for you! (waow, awesome way to avoid ccsm question  ;))"
<seb128> nessita, I will not let didrocks avoid the ccsm issue I asked about before ;-)
<nessita> seb128: ah! didrocks is using me like a cover. Good thinking :-P
<seb128> nessita, will review your upload in a bit, don't worry ;-)
<nessita> seb128: awesome, thanks
<seb128> didrocks, will the unity profile be a fresh one on next login?
<seb128> giving me standard unity config?
<didrocks> seb128: right
<seb128> ok
<didrocks> seb128: in ccsm, you are changing which profile? "Standard" or "unity"?
<didrocks> it's in the general pane)
<seb128> didrocks, sorry I was playing with ccsm, standard is selected
<didrocks> ok, so should work on your current state
<didrocks> (before restarting the session, I mean)
<seb128> I should perhaps restart my session to be in a clean config?
<seb128> didrocks, let's forget about it for now
<didrocks> that would be nice :)
<seb128> I will wait for the uploads you did to be published
<seb128> upgrade and restart
<didrocks> ok :)
<seb128> then we can talk about issues
<seb128> didrocks, btw let me pick your bug knowlegde
<didrocks> seb128: again, didrocks-unity-mup? :)
<seb128> didrocks, the bugs about menus autoclosing is not supposed to be fixed right?
<didrocks> the autoclosing shouldn't, no
<seb128> didrocks, and launcher dnd move or context menus are not supposed to be implemented yet?
<didrocks> the fact that clicking doesn't open a menu, should
<didrocks> (be fixed)
<seb128> ok, that works
<didrocks> and right, dnd doesn't work
<seb128> it's just that they close when doing left, right
<seb128> ok
<seb128> thanks
<didrocks> yeah, if you do that quickly enough
<seb128> I will open a few bugs later on
<didrocks> ok :)
<rodrigo_> nessita, mate is going great, almost done with the yerba I bought
<rodrigo_> nessita, so, will start looking for a shop where they sell 'cruz de malta' or real mate
<nessita> rodrigo_: and you have yerba available there?
<rodrigo_> Chipaca told me about 'cruz de malta', which I think they sell here
<cjwatson> What do you guys think about bug 616682?  The changes proposed look fairly small, though I think it would perhaps be easiest to get through SRU if somebody prepared a backport of just the necessary changes without version bumps, whitespace changes, etc.; would you agree?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 616682 in system-tools-backends (Ubuntu) "Backport system-tools-backends 2.10.0 to Lucid (affects: 1) (heat: 34)" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/616682
<mvo> mpt: I send some comments on the spec now by mail now, let me know what you think (not urgent, we can talk about it in the mumble call or before/after the call)
<mpt> thanks
<mterry> kenvandine, am I missing something, or are the valac developers in that GIO 'take_error' bug being not very helpful?
<kenvandine> mterry, they really aren't :/
<mterry> kenvandine, I just reopened it
<mterry> kenvandine, it sounds like their position is "don't use gir yet, or if you do, use a custom metadata file".  So at least the metadata file (and he gave an example) will unblock you?
<mterry> kenvandine, or did you already workaround this bug?
<kenvandine> i already worked around it
<mterry> cool
<kenvandine> basically by not using the girs
<kenvandine> specifying all the packages with --pkg
<kenvandine> not sure if gio folks are going to jump onadding the metadata file to work around it
<kenvandine> since it is vala specific
<kenvandine> or i guess you can just bundle your own metadata file right?
<GunnarHj> pitti: Hi Martin, are you there? I thought about our conversation last friday, and think I made some progress. There are a couple of follow-up matters I'd like to talk over; please see my latest comments at https://launchpad.net/bugs/553162
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 553162 in language-selector (Ubuntu) (and 3 other projects) "Set $LANGUAGE if the user picks a different locale in gdm, so that language-selector and gdm stop disagreeing (affects: 30) (dups: 10) (heat: 192)" [Undecided,In progress]
<mterry> kenvandine, yeah, that's what the devs were telling me to do, but that's not something every vala author out there should have to do
<kenvandine> mterry, yeah... or even have to figure out they need to do
<pitti> mvo: FYI, language-selector now works fine with gtk3/pygi \o/
<pitti> all pushed to bzr now
<mterry> nice pitti  :)  go gtk3!
<mvo> pitti: *nice*
<pitti> mvo: I'll upload this once I catch glatzor to do a new upstream release and natty upload
<pitti> GunnarHj: hello!
<pitti> GunnarHj: reading
<mvo> pitti: do you want to get this in for a1? if so, we need python-defer in the archive first I think
<pitti> mvo: no, not urgent at all for a1
<pitti> mvo: oh, right, that too
<pitti> mvo: do you want me to package it, or do you know whether glatzor is already working on that?
<mvo> pitti: I htink its already packaged
<mvo> pitti: see lp:~glatzor/python-defer/ubuntu-natty
<mvo> pitti: it just needs to get uploaded and through NEW
<mvo> I can upload
<mvo> if you help with the NEW processing :)
<pitti> mvo: absolutely!
<pitti> few nitpicks in debian/control, but *shrug*, nothing that can't wait
<pitti> mvo: I'd love to just use lp:ubuntu/python-defer once it's uploaded and drop the glatzor specific branch; WDYT?
<pitti> and we should use dh_python2 now (but that's not a NEW blocker)
<mvo> pitti: what bits needs fixing in cntrol? happy to do that
<mvo> pitti: lp:ubuntu ++
<pitti> mvo: Maintainer:, dropping python-central (and building --with python2)
<pitti> mvo: and shlibs:Depends isn't necessary and will cause a warning
<pitti> mvo: oh, and in debian/rules: first $@, then --with (for dh8 compatibility)
<mvo> thanks pitti
<mterry> pitti, oh, didn't know that about $@ and --with.  I've always seen examples the other way
 * mterry makes a mental note
<pitti> mterry: see man debhelper, "v8"
<pitti> GunnarHj: I responded to your bug comments; still need to respond to your merge request comments, but I need to run out now; will respond ASAP
<pitti> so, good bye everyone, need to leave early today
<pitti> (and start early in the morning this week)
<didrocks> have a good evening pitti :)
<seb128> pitti, see you, have fun
<vish> seb128: hi. what's the status of Open Office vs LibreOffice for Natty? any decision on which we'll be shipping?
<seb128> hey
<vish> i couldnt find any decision on the blueprint...
<seb128> no clue, it's likely to be in low activity until canonical hire someone
<seb128> the uds decision was to update to libreoffice when it would make sense
<vish> seb128: oh! and no one is looking after the OOo package?
<vish> yea..
<seb128> which means when there will be an upstream release we can ship and someone to do the work
<seb128> not sure if there is a release
<vish> seb128: ok,cool .. thanks. :)
<seb128> but nobody is maintaining it in UIbuntu no
<seb128> Ubuntu
<seb128> you can check with jasoncwarner maybe though
<seb128> he had some interviews set for the job
<seb128> debian packaged libreoffice meanwhile
<seb128> so we might just pick it up during the cycle if someone stands up to merge what they did
<vish> seb128: yea, was not sure which package to accept as a papercut, since it was not clear.. and there was a bug to update the OOo splash screen, not sure what to with those bugs..
<seb128> I've no opinion on that ;-)
<vish> :)
<chrisccoulson> openoffice is a seriously scary package
<chrisccoulson> :)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, you want a new challenge, a know it!
<seb128> ;-)
<seb128> a -> I
<chrisccoulson> lol
<chrisccoulson> i think i'll give that one a miss ;)
<seb128> lol
<seb128> did you figure what it's doing with xul?
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - it builds a browser plugin
<RenatoSilva> is ubuntu maintainers sometimes more inclined than upstream to apply a patch to a new feature?
<RenatoSilva> * are
<cyphermox> RenatoSilva, you should really try to get your patch upstream instead
<cyphermox> it's a much better workflow as it benefits everyone -- but this we should discuss in #ubuntu-devel, not here
<rodrigo_> new g-c-c package up for review -> https://code.launchpad.net/~rodrigo-moya/ubuntu/natty/gnome-control-center/2_91_3_release/+merge/42134
<and471> nessita, ping
<nessita> and471: pong
<and471> nessita, I am having a pretty major problem with testing - do you have some time to help?
<seb128> didrocks, there
<seb128> ?
<didrocks> seb128: yep
<seb128> didrocks, so I upgraded compiz and restart my session
<seb128> the unity profile vanished from ccsm
<seb128> it cleaned my config as well
<didrocks> vanished?
<seb128> I'm back on ini backend
<didrocks> hum, weird
<didrocks> so, ok env | grep COMPIZ
<didrocks> (I've people confirming it's working for them here and on ubuntu-fr forum, so hopefully it's localized to some settings)
<nessita> and471: not right now, I'm about to have lunch. Would you like to send me an email?
<rodrigo_> seb128, I've fixed the loading of the invest applet, although it still has a few problems, but will be fixing that upstream, so should I submit the package now (with the accompanying gnome-panel one) or just wait to have it all fixed?
<seb128> didrocks, COMPIZ_CONFIG_PROFILE=ubuntu
<and471> nessita, ok cool, thanks :)
<seb128> didrocks, sorry I was checking something else, should be reactive now
<nessita> and471: thank you! do you have my email address?
<seb128> rodrigo_, what sort of problems?
<nessita> and471: bah, is published on LP, you can take it from there. Please write to canonical's address
<didrocks> seb128: no worry, can you pastebin /etc/compizconfig/config ?
<and471> nessita, ok thanks
<rodrigo_> seb128, well, not sure what's it yet, but it doesn't show up on the panel, I think it's something to do with the GTK2 gir
<Laney> rodrigo_: hey, have you seen the libubuntuone ftbfs?
<and471> nessita, wots ur launchpad username?
<rodrigo_> Laney, ftbfs?
<seb128> rodrigo_, ok, maybe don't waste much time one it
<nessita> and471: nataliabidart
<rodrigo_> seb128, at least my package now removes all dependencies, so we will just upset natty users that have the invest applet
<and471> nessita, cool thanks, bon apetit
<rodrigo_> which I don't think there are many
<seb128> rodrigo_, right, me neither
<rodrigo_> seb128, ok, I'll submit it then
<rodrigo_> ok, so then I have 3 branches up for review + upload, 2 for natty: https://code.launchpad.net/~rodrigo-moya/ubuntu/natty/gnome-panel/fix-introspection/+merge/42100 and https://code.launchpad.net/~rodrigo-moya/ubuntu/natty/gnome-applets/no-more-deprecated/+merge/41494
<rodrigo_> and one for the ppa: https://code.launchpad.net/~rodrigo-moya/ubuntu/natty/gnome-control-center/2_91_3_release/+merge/42134
<and471> mpt, myself and kvalo wanted to ask you whether the networks in the network settings window were those which had been connected to previously, and had stored details, or those which the wifi device can 'see' at that moment
<and471> mpt, or has this not been decided?
<mpt> and471, the latter
<and471> mpt, ok thanks, can I just ask what the other button does?
<and471> mpt, sorry the latter meaning not decided or the latter meaning those which the wifif device can see?
<mpt> and471, the networks the wi-fi card can see
<and471> mpt, and the "Other..." button?
<mpt> and471, so you can select one of them and choose "Connect"/"Connectâ¦", or double-click on it to connect
<mpt> and471, that's for connecting to hidden networks
<and471> thanks mpt
<seb128> re
<seb128> is anybody there running unity on natty?
<cyphermox> seb128, about to update and try it
<mterry> i am
<htorque> seb128, here (but i'm just a user ;-))
<devildante> seb128: i am
<seb128> htorque, can you go to an empty workspace, run something not running yet, gconf-editor for example
<seb128> click on "_" wm button to minimize it
<seb128> then try to click on the launcher icon
<seb128> does it bring it back into focus?
<htorque> nope, i already thought about reporting it
<seb128> I'm reporting it now
<seb128> but didrocks doesn't get the issue so I wanted to check
<htorque> oh wait, you mean the minimized application?
<htorque> i cannot focus another already running application (on another workspace)
<seb128> yes
<htorque> sorry for the misunderstanding - i can bring back the minimized application
<seb128> weird
<seb128> it happens every time there
<htorque> nope. also not happening in a "fresh" session
<htorque> will try a second system
<kenvandine> seb128, i had that problem last week, but it went away with a reboot
<kenvandine> like something was in a weird state
<didrocks> well, I guess seb128 tried a session restartâ¦
<kenvandine> yeah
<seb128> I did restart compiz several time
<kenvandine> logout and back in?
<seb128> and whipped my compiz config on disk and in gconf and restarted my session
<kenvandine> ok
<seb128> well logout, whipped the config and login
<seb128> https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/682769
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 682769 in unity (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "the launcher doesn't focus minimized dialogs on empty workspaces (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,New]
<kenvandine> for me i had hard disk errors and my laptop crashed
<seb128> comment #1 as well
<seb128> - run empathy, let the buddy list on screen
<kenvandine> turned it back on and i could raise windows again :)
<seb128> - switch to another workspace
<seb128> - use the message indicator and click on the messaging client entry
<seb128> that makes empathy vanish
<seb128> kenvandine, well it works if I've another dialog on the same workspace
<seb128> it just if the ws is empty
<seb128> just bugs
<didrocks> seb128: oh, you have the gnome-panel window list as well, isn't it?
<seb128> yes
<didrocks> did you try without it?
<seb128> well I guess so
<seb128> my gnome-panel is under the compiz one and I don't know how to get to it
<didrocks> as it crashed on my new user, and I added back after compiz, maybeâ¦
<seb128> I use one gnome-panel bar only
<didrocks> ah, you just have one line
<didrocks> ok
<kenvandine> seb128, i can reproduce that
<seb128> kenvandine, that? empathy?
<kenvandine> now i can't get my buddy list back
<kenvandine> yes
<seb128> kenvandine, you can alt-tab it back
<kenvandine> it isn't in my switcher list
<seb128> hum, right
<kenvandine> and if i run empathy again, which should raise it
<kenvandine> it doesn't
<kenvandine> now i can't find the window :)
<didrocks> ah, I can reproduce the buddy list issue this session
<seb128> kenvandine, welcome to my world ;-)
<seb128> clicking on the launcher do the "claim for attention"
<kenvandine> hehe
<kenvandine> even worse
<kenvandine> i can't click on tabs in my existing conversations window
<didrocks> seb128: it seems that your empathy bug only happens if you started empathy by the messaging menu
<htorque> or the terminal ;-)
<htorque> getting it too
<didrocks> ok for that one so, maybe linked to all the raise window issue in compizâ¦
<and471> mpt, in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Networking?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=wireless-connect-new.jpg, can you clarify the spacing between the rows?
<seb128> didrocks, how did you launch gedit in the other case?
<didrocks> seb128: alt + f2
<seb128> hum ok, same here
<devildante> mpt, have a sec?
<didrocks> not sure they are linked then
<mpt> devildante, yep
<seb128> do you want an another bug for the empathy issue?
<seb128> didrocks, ^
<didrocks> seb128: yes please, I'll confirm that one
<didrocks> seb128: do you have an empathy match in the launcher, btw?
<didrocks> (I don't)
<mpt> and471, starting from the top: 12px, 6px, 12px, 12px, 12px
<devildante> mpt: about bug 507788... it seems yelp 3 is completely different and solves the problem: http://imgur.com/10JmX.png
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 507788 in yelp (Ubuntu) (and 2 other projects) "In Help, Table of Contents switches from left to right when user selects topic (affects: 2) (heat: 16)" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/507788
<and471> mpt, thanks again
<devildante> mpt: do you think there is still issues?
<seb128> didrocks, bug #682781
<nessita> and471: you around?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 682781 in unity (Ubuntu) "empathy buggy list vanish when opened twice in the indicator (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/682781
<and471> nessita, yup
<mpt> devildante, well that theme looks awful, but apart from that ... :-)
<didrocks> seb128: thanks, did you see my "empathy matching" question?
<mpt> and471, will you be around tomorrow?
<devildante> mpt: that theme is actually a bug :p
<devildante> mpt: okay, thanks :)
<and471> mpt, yes, 16:30 till 19:00 :)
<seb128> didrocks, I've an empathy icon yes
<nessita> and471: a few notes: the run-tests script should be located at the root level, and the tests should go inside the module the tests are testing for (you can see for example the latest trunk for ubuntu-sso-client where the gui code is separated from the backend code)
<seb128> didrocks, if I click on it, it claims for attention
<didrocks> seb128: but is the background black or colored?
<didrocks> ok
<didrocks> so another bug :)
<seb128> didrocks, it's not colored
<didrocks> oh
<nessita> and471: the other problem you're having is that the test script is not discovering all the available tests, I think
<didrocks> ok
<didrocks> so same issue, there is no match
<seb128> but it does claim for attention when I click
<didrocks> it's not seen as running
<nessita> and471: I'll push a version to a junk branch of mine so you can see what I mean :-)
<didrocks> seb128: yeah, that's the "start animation"
<seb128> didrocks, I think it matches it wrongly
<didrocks> seb128: do you have the same for apps you minmize?
<seb128> because if I stop empathy from a command line the launcher doesn't vanish
<didrocks> minimize*
<didrocks> seb128: it's a default launcher
<seb128> oh right
<didrocks> but it should match when starting differently than from the launcher
<and471> nessita, thankyou very much :)
<didrocks> hum, let me check with tomboy
<mpt> and471, ok, I'll see if I can spend tomorrow on networking
<didrocks> yeah, tomboy is matched, even started from the CLI
<and471> mpt, yay!
<didrocks> hum, cool, clicking on "yes" in evolution raise an empathy conversation there
<seb128> didrocks, "yes"?
<didrocks> seb128: well, when clicking on "all read"
<didrocks> so, the window is raised, but not drawn, maybe
<didrocks> should be that
<didrocks> I can double click in the empty space and the buddy list react
<didrocks> it's just "invisible"
<nessita> and471: pushed to lp:~nataliabidart/+junk/indicator-network-settings The main problem was that you were calling self.app.run() in setUp(), and that was running the gtk main loop. But when using the twisted trial runner, you should not run any main loop by yourself, since trial will run it for you
<and471> nessita, you are a star :)
<nessita> and471: hehe. Please note that you had several lint errors, that meaning that your python code is not fully compliant with pep8 and usual python style. I added a pylintrc file that will help, but nevertheless you'd want to fix the errors/warnings (particularly all the trailing spaces, you can setup your editor to deal properly with those)
<and471> ok
<nessita> but tests ran ok http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/538030/
<nessita> :-)
<and471>  yay!
<and471> nessita, thanks again :)
 * and471 merges
<nessita> and471: what editor do you use?
<and471> nessita, geany
<and471> mpt, how is http://imagebin.ca/img/wSmLN9.png ? (ignore weird orange line...)
<cyphermox> and471, you just got my curiosity, what's that? :)
<and471> cyphermox, the new network stuff, designed by mpt
<and471> cyphermox, the network menu is available in natty, and to look at the network settings window you can:
<and471> bzr branch lp:~and471/indicator-network/indicator-network-settings
<cyphermox> ah right
<mpt> and471, that's about right, except that there's too much space around all sides of the Cancel+Connect group
<nessita> and471: seems like geany provides 'Strip trailing spaces' so you may wanna enable that?
<and471> cyphermox, I hope getting your curiosity is a good thing :)
<mpt> and471, I keep seeing that in GTK dialogs, what causes it?
<and471> nessita, ok then :)
<cyphermox> and471, it is :)
 * mpt -> home
<and471> mpt, I don't know, I think it ma be in the theme/hardcoded in gtk, as I can't change it
<and471> mpt, for example when I create a gtk dialog in glade, it has that extra padding, but no option to remove it
<and471> mpt, looking at it, it seems to be in gtk dialog, rather than hbuttonbox, the thing that holds the buttons in the dialog
<mpt> I've seen the before-and-after of engineers removing it before
<mpt> so it's a bad default somewhere
<and471> k
<bcurtiswx> PPA updates broke my compiz
<bcurtiswx> metacity works fine though
<Sarvatt> RAOF: regarding rickspencer3's blurry screen problem, https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=31942
<ubot2> Freedesktop bug 31942 in DRM/Intel "G41 KMS display is "blurry" in console & Xorg" [Normal,New]
<Sarvatt> rickspencer3: did you have a bug open about that blurry display problem by any chance?
<rickspencer3> Sarvatt, I had not had a chance to open one
<rickspencer3> I am going to do a clean install one of these days, and was waiting until then
<rickspencer3> in the meantime, I got used to it and kinda forgot about it, but now that you remind me :/
<Sarvatt> rickspencer3: well good news is its fixed upstream in the kernel as of a few minutes ago :) are you on i386 by any chance? I can whip up a kernel to test but I don't have an amd64 handy at the moment
<bcurtiswx> i have an amd64
<rickspencer3> Sarvatt, that is such a great offer
<rickspencer3> I'm about to reinstall, though, but I will be going for 32bit
<rickspencer3> so, tomorrow I should have a spanky new natty 32 bit kernel
<bcurtiswx> what was fixed upstream ?
<Sarvatt> https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=31942
<ubot2> Freedesktop bug 31942 in DRM/Intel "G41 KMS display is "blurry" in console & Xorg" [Normal,Resolved: fixed]
<Sarvatt> rickspencer3: got it building now and it'll take a few hours, will send ya a link to it later
<rickspencer3> sweet
<bcurtiswx> are they ever going to fix that security issue on FDO ? and very nice
<chrisccoulson> bcurtiswx, not so much a security issue with the website, but rather that the issuer doesn't have their root cert in NSS yet
<chrisccoulson> bcurtiswx, mozilla bug 215243
<ubot2> Mozilla bug 215243 in CA Certificates "CAcert root cert inclusion into browser" [Enhancement,Verified: invalid] http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=215243
<bcurtiswx> chrisccoulson, ah I wonder why they don't have it yet
<chrisccoulson> bcurtiswx, AFAICT, they haven't met the requirements for inclusion yet
<chrisccoulson> the criteria is pretty tough, and there's a fairly lengthy auditing process too
<chrisccoulson> for good reason ;)
<bcurtiswx> i agree about the good reason, just seems that since enough people use FDO that it would be taken care of by now
<chrisccoulson> right, that's not a good reason for including a root cert though. if fd.o see it as a problem, they should have a certificate issued by a trusted company ;)
<chrisccoulson> the company does have their certificate shipped in a lot of places now though
<chrisccoulson> http://wiki.cacert.org/InclusionStatus
<chrisccoulson> just not in NSS or ca-certificates
<chrisccoulson> which is what matters for us
<bcurtiswx> hmm, thx for the lesson chrisccoulson :)
<czajkowski> kenvandine: evening
<kenvandine> hey czajkowski
<czajkowski> kenvandine: so that issue of me not lgging into a machine all day adn the enveope still showing green is a tad annoying, any idea how I can stop it showing green ?
<czajkowski> damn lag
<kenvandine> refresh my memory :)
<kenvandine> so private messages don't get cleared when you click them?
<czajkowski> kenvandine: so when I launch gwibber afer being out all day, it shows all the tweets I've not read on this pc, there can be hundreds and all replies and dms, so the envelope goes green.  I cannot say I've viewed all messages so it stays green.
<kenvandine> ok
<kenvandine> right, so not clearing it with multi-column view
<czajkowski> nope
<kenvandine> let me look now
<czajkowski> whoo thanks
<chrisccoulson> thunderbird, please just build now :)
<chrisccoulson> is anybody having problems with gnome-keyring forgetting passwords in natty?
<chrisccoulson> i have to enter my passwords every time i open empathy, evolution and gwibber :/
<chrisccoulson> oh
<Sarvatt> not me
<chrisccoulson> i know what i've done
<chrisccoulson> i've got gnome-keyring from the gnome3 PPA
<chrisccoulson> heh :)
<chrisccoulson> i'm not having a very good evening
<seb128> re
<seb128> mterry, did you enable apport?
<chrisccoulson> hi seb128!
<seb128> hey chrisccoulson
<mterry> seb128, /etc/default/apport has it enabled
<seb128> ok, weird that it doesn't catch unity crashes then
<seb128> do you know if it segfault?
<seb128> or abort? exit?
<chrisccoulson> wow, thunderbird linked in natty finally! \o/
<seb128> you beat another gcc as-needed issue? ;-)
<seb128> mterry, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UnityFilingBugs
<mterry> seb128, I don't know how it closes
<seb128> mterry, well usually start your session
<seb128> switch to another user or a vt
<seb128> then attach gdb to compiz
<seb128> wait for the crash
<seb128> go to other session or vt and see gdb
<mterry> seb128, yar, will try
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - yeah, but this time there's quite a lot of link options for me to figure out the correct order: http://paste.ubuntu.com/538118/
<kenvandine> czajkowski, figured out why... but it actually isn't a bug, it's more of a "not sure what would be the right thing to do"
<kenvandine> czajkowski, when you view a stream, like in single stream view and you view your private messages
<kenvandine> we clear the counter for those
<kenvandine> but in multicolumn those streams are displayed already but we don't know if you have seen them yet
<kenvandine> i think the best thing would be to add a focus signal to the pane, so when you click on a stream (pane) in multi-column view we know you have at least seen it
<kenvandine> czajkowski, if you click on the private messages counter in the messaging indicator, it does clear it right?
<czajkowski> kenvandine: sometimes but not always
<czajkowski> kenvandine: doesnt seem to do it if it's my public stream.
<kenvandine> that won't
<kenvandine> the only one that would make it green is the private one
<kenvandine> that part seems to be working for me in multi-column mode
<kenvandine> but i do see where it doesn't clear when it the window opens, etc
<czajkowski> woo another "feature" found
<bdrung> alf_: in which package are  you interested personally?
<bdrung> s/package/packages/
<robert_ancell> RAOF, hey, do you know why we don't have mono 2.8 in natty yet?
<RAOF> robert_ancell: Because it's not in Debian yet, either.
<robert_ancell> RAOF, they won't be upgrading anytime soon due to their freeze, I was just wondering if there might be any particular reason to hold back
<RAOF> I've seen some work on it, but there seems to be quite a lot of work involved in updating.
<RAOF> I'd kinda like to play with 2.8, so I might see if I can bully it along sometime.
<seb128> hey robert_ancell
<seb128> don't go and upgrade mono in Ubuntu ;-)
<robert_ancell> seb128, hey, why not?
<seb128> that would make the debian guys really angry with us
<seb128> we are mostly on sync with mono and mono in ubuntu is maintained by the same team as in debian
<seb128> they don't like much when just just go with updates or patches without talking to them
<rodrigo_> hey robert_ancell
<robert_ancell> rodrigo_, hello
<seb128> talk to Laney at least before starting on it
<robert_ancell> seb128, oh, who should I ask about the webkit-3.0 package naming?
<seb128> robert_ancell, if there is a reason why we want it they might just suggest getting it in debian experimental
<seb128> robert_ancell, debian got webkit gtk
<seb128> gtk
<seb128> grr
<RAOF> That was going to be how I'd approach it.
<seb128> gtk3
<seb128> robert_ancell, sync from them?
<alf_> bdrung: Hi! Apart from some of my own projects that I want to provide packages for, I meant that in a general way. That is, now that I have the skills I will be able to help out with any packages that I am using and have some issue (regardless of whether they are related to my work).
<robert_ancell> seb128, where is it, I can't find it in git?
<seb128> hum, I though they said they got it today
<robert_ancell> I only checked yesterday, I'll look again
<seb128> robert_ancell, ok, check with kov then I guess
<seb128> on #debian-gnome or #gnome-hackers
<robert_ancell> seb128, and do you know if they based any of it off our work?  (we hear a lot about "base it off debian", but often I'm finding it doesn't happen the other way around)
<seb128> no clue, they tend to not do it no
<seb128> when I complain about it they complain that we don't send the changes back to the bts
<seb128> so they know about what we do
<ajmitch_> fwiw, directhex was looking at mono 2.8 a little while ago, I'm not sure what the state of it is
<Sarvatt> rickspencer3: http://sarvatt.com/downloads/rickspencer/  would be much appreciated if you could try that out when you get a chance, uploaded amd64 and i386 there
<robert_ancell> ajmitch_, thanks
<rickspencer3> Sarvatt, ack
<robert_ancell> seb128, well, we do send changes to the black hole of the bts...
<robert_ancell> they need Ubuntu patch pilots :)
<ajmitch_> robert_ancell: or you could ask in #debian-cli on oftc, meebey may still be awake :)
<seb128> it's not like they were not replying
<seb128> robert_ancell, one part of the issue is that they are frozen for their next stable
<seb128> though they started picking up on gtk3
<seb128> they merged our gir build patches in a bunch of sources this week
<seb128> gtk3, atk, pango, etc
<robert_ancell> oh, good
<robert_ancell> RAOF, is it safe to alt-tab again?
<seb128> was alt-tab broken?
<rodrigo_> kenvandine, around?
<RAOF> robert_ancell: Not on an r600+ unless you've disabled mipmapping.
<robert_ancell> RAOF, damn
<RAOF> OR have turn on gallium.
<robert_ancell> RAOF, I keep forgetting, and then every so often bang!
<robert_ancell> seb128, no webkit-gtk3 stuff
<rodrigo_> seb128, btw, not sure if you saw my post earlier, about the g-applets and g-panel updates for natty: https://code.launchpad.net/~rodrigo-moya/ubuntu/natty/gnome-panel/fix-introspection/+merge/42100 and https://code.launchpad.net/~rodrigo-moya/ubuntu/natty/gnome-applets/no-more-deprecated/+merge/41494
<RAOF> robert_ancell: Option "ForceGallium" "True" in your xorg.conf will fix that.  :)
<seb128> rodrigo_, hey, I saw, I got busy with unity testing, will sponsor those when I start tomorrow
<robert_ancell> RAOF, ok, cheers
<robert_ancell> seb128, is #debian-gnome on GIMPNet?
<rodrigo_> seb128, ah ak, no hurries, just wabted to make sure you knew about them
<rodrigo_> ugh, can't type :)
<seb128> robert_ancell, no, on oftc
<robert_ancell> rodrigo_, I can merge those
<seb128> robert_ancell, debian has its own irc
<bdrung> alf_: ok, so you have nothing special in mind. You wrote that the getting new packages into ubuntu issue will be addressed in the natty cycle. what will change for natty?
<seb128> robert_ancell, but kov is on #gnome-hackers
<robert_ancell> seb128, no suprises there...
<rodrigo_> robert_ancell, please review them before, just in case I missed something
<robert_ancell> sure
<rodrigo_> robert_ancell, and if they look ok, please upload them
<seb128> robert_ancell, it's probably after his work hours, I can check with him tomorrow if you don't get hold of him today
<robert_ancell> seb128, ok, thanks
<robert_ancell> seb128, the main things to ask if he's not around is, 1) I've renamed the sourcepackage to webkitgtk-3.0 (does that make sense?) and the names of the binary packages.  It's all in the ubuntugtk3 branch
<seb128> ok
<robert_ancell> RAOF, so, is gallium stable enough?
<seb128> he's kov @ debian . org if you want to email him
<alf_> bdrung: there were some discussions at UDS about this issue and it was decided to allocate more man-hours for package sponsoring
<RAOF> robert_ancell: There's some support just plain missing - don't turn on blur, for example.
<seb128> robert_ancell, or you might want to let your question and the pointer to our vcs
<RAOF> robert_ancell: Other than the missing stuff it's about as stable as classic.
<robert_ancell> seb128, ok, I'll email him too
<RAOF> robert_ancell: Possibly slightly more stable; things like blur don't *crash* as such, they just make your terminal windows disappear. :)
<robert_ancell> seb128, what's his real name?
<ajmitch_> RAOF: is gallium with nouveau remotely stable yet?
<bdrung> alf_: you have to distinguish between the sponsors queue and revu
<RAOF> ajmitch_: Yeah, has been for quite some time.
<bdrung> alf_: the revu packages aren't on the sponsors queue
<seb128> robert_ancell, Gustavo Noronha Silva
<alf_> bdrung: ok, I meant sponsoring in the general sense (eg not sponsoring changes for existing packages), I will change it to be more clear
<RAOF> ajmitch_: It does make it more likely you'll hit a case where nouveau doesn't know how to stop the GPU from locking up, but it's mostly solid.
<seb128> ok, enough for today
<ajmitch_> RAOF: I may have to try it out on my desktop then
<seb128> robert_ancell, did you need me for anything else before I go?
<robert_ancell> seb128, nope, thanks
<bdrung> alf_: aha, getting new package into ubuntu will probably remain an issue. you brought some new packages to ubuntu, are there plans for debian too?
<seb128> ok, great
<seb128> bye
<RAOF> ajmitch_: Yeah.  You won't even run into the most obnoxious problem, which is the lack of power management :)
<ajmitch_> RAOF: apart from the general lack of cooling in the case, yeah :)
<alf_> bdrung: I would like to add these packages to the debian archive and maintain them there, but I have no concrete plans at the moment for this
<alf_> bdrung: I would first need to get better connected with debian folks so I can find sponsors etc
<bdrung> alf_: it's the other way round. file a ITP, upload the package to http://mentors.debian.net/, and send a mail to the mentors list! then you will find debian folks. or better: find a debian team your package belongs to and join that team.
<alf_> bdrung: interesting, I will check it out, thanks!
<bdrung> alf_: you're welcome.
#ubuntu-desktop 2010-11-30
<pitti> Good morning
<pitti> vish: we'll ship LibO if possible; we should be getting an OO.o maintainer soon
<TheMuso> 8Morning pitti.
<pitti> robert_ancell: I'm about to merge libgweather, unless you already started with that?
<didrocks> good morning
<pitti> bonjour didrocks
<pitti> didrocks: so, unity by default with last night's dist-upgrade :)
<didrocks> hey pitti, how are you?
<didrocks> nice! all went well? :)
<pitti> yep, apparently
<pitti> except that I now miss gtimelog and system-monitor :)
<pitti> didrocks: how are you?
<pitti> didrocks: gnome-panel and applets are still running, though; is that intended?
<didrocks> pitti: I'm fine, thanks :)
<didrocks> pitti: yeah, nm-applet has to run :)
<didrocks> and we will postpone for A2 for the "smart session launch" as upstream is changing gnome-session (long long discussionsâ¦ :))
<pitti> didrocks: oh, what's the thing that I see on the unity panel?
<pitti> looks like a network indicator
<didrocks> the thing? :)
<didrocks> I don't have it
<didrocks> did I miss something? do you have a ppa?
<didrocks> AFAIK, the nm indicator isn't NEWed
<TheMuso> As someone who will still need GNOME for a little while, do I have to select a different session once I upgrade?
<pitti> didrocks: http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/tmp/unity-panel.png
<didrocks> TheMuso: yeah, with latest gnome-session, you should get a ubuntu classic session in gdm
<pitti> the thing that drives me mad is the global menu bar
<pitti> it conceptually doesn't work with focus-follows-mouse
<didrocks> pitti: talk to mpt about it, we argued for ages :)
<didrocks> pitti: I'm surprized, maybe I should check my nm version
<pitti> is it possible to disable global menu bar for this?
<didrocks> apart from UBUNTU_MENUPROXY=0 at session starts, no
<pitti> didrocks: I don't see an indicator process which sounds network-related
<TheMuso> didrocks: Thanks, thought as much.
<didrocks> design tells that you are a corner case pitti with follow on mouse :)
<pitti> didrocks: !?!
<didrocks> (focus following mouse)
<pitti> 40 years of unix history is a corner case?
<didrocks> I agree, that was even raised on ayatana mailing list
<didrocks> (and yes, I used that on my unix in my previous job)
<pitti> well, not your fault, sorry for venting
<didrocks> no worry :)
<didrocks> pitti: grrr, no new network-manager, don't know from where this indicators come
<pitti> didrocks: info in the indicator thing says "nm-applet"
<pitti> network-manager-applet (0.8.2+git.20101123t161608.f143e76-0ubuntu1) natty; urgen
<pitti> cy=low
<pitti>   * Now draw the applet and applet's menus using libappindicator.
<didrocks> pitti: and network-manager-gnome ?
<pitti>     - add debian/patches/nm-applet-use-indicator.patch
<didrocks> ah
<pitti> didrocks: (-applet is the source for -gnome)
<didrocks> ok, maybe I'm not up-to-date for that one
<didrocks> grub is breaking my nvidia card, so I don't dist-upgrade but cherry-pick
<pitti> didrocks: but I figure having a running panel is important for something else: Alt+F2 :)
<pitti> which currently seems to be the only way to actually launch programs, aside from terminals
<pitti> since there's no overlay yet
<pitti> (at least I don't have it, I just have the launcher bar)
<didrocks> pitti: yeah, njpatel wants to make it for A2, but the panel is crashing a lot of appletsâ¦ so not sure what we should do
<didrocks> in any, we either:
<didrocks>  - remove it, forget it and "sorry" for nvidia user for A1
<pitti> I don't think it actively hurts for a1
<didrocks> - let it there : alt+F2 ok but crash for everyone at start with the applets
<pitti> it's just resource waste, but at least keeps alt+F2
<didrocks> ok, let's keep that way then
<pitti> didrocks: right, I noticed the applets crashes, too
<didrocks> yeah, I think that's because their X window is hidden at start
<didrocks> particularly for the systray
<didrocks> ok, so gnome-session will soon have the bits we need to have a nice detection system for A2 :)
<didrocks> also, for boot speed, we thought about launching the detection module during gdm and touch some file for result
<pitti> didrocks: oh, so we'll split out the detection after all?
<didrocks> pitti: right, I discussed that with dbarth yesterday in some extends and we still discuss a little this morning, but I think we found a way that is interesting for the distro and for upstream
<didrocks> so, we will discare the --replace case
<didrocks> (as GNOME will discare it as well)
<didrocks> and also the case where someone add/remove the unity plugin
<pitti> bryceh, dbarth, didrocks, kenvandine, Laney, RAOF, robert_ancell, TheMuso: you still have a couple of alpha-1 WIs; can you please check if some of them were done, and move the rest to alpha-2?
<TheMuso> pitti: Sure.
<didrocks> pitti: already on them, I think banshee will be postponed as there is no MIR reviewed yet
<pitti> didrocks: sounds fine
<didrocks> and the other one, we just discussed it :)
<didrocks> pitti: I can simply remove gnome-panel only in the ubuntu desktop session btw, (and don't impact gnome-classic with the gconf path trick), maybe it's better than having the crashes?
<didrocks> and yeah, you will loose alt + F2 :)
<didrocks> (got the indicator here as well, working fine for the general case)
<pitti> didrocks: hm, tricky; I wouldn't mind to not start panel for a
<pitti> a1
<pitti> didrocks: it's still pretty "crippled" anyway
<pitti> but it would better test how the system is standing on its own without the panel
<didrocks> pitti: yeah, for instance, we can have pager conflicts and the application minimizing effect to the wrong pager
<didrocks> so, maybe better to remove it
<didrocks> that will just tell "sorry for nvidia driver and for those not having acceleration or dist-upgrading with wm != {gnomewm,compiz}"
<didrocks> but I think it just needs documentation on the release note
<TheMuso> pitti: Done thanks for the heads up.
<pitti> TheMuso: cheers!
<dbarth> pitti: sure
<vish> pitti: thanks.  when would we decide(which milestone) finally whether we ship LibO or not?
<pitti> vish: before FF in any case
<vish> ah, ak.. :)
<vish> ok*
<pitti> vish: right now the delta between OO.o and LibO isn't so huge yet, so from an end user's POV it shouldn't look too different
 * vish nods..
<rodrigo_> morning
<seb128> hey
<rodrigo_> hi seb128
<seb128> hey rodrigo_
<seb128> how are you?
<rodrigo_> fine, and you?
<seb128> rodrigo_, I'm fine thanks
<seb128> didrocks, lut
<didrocks> seb128: salut
<seb128> didrocks, so the classic desktop session is not so great
<didrocks> seb128: why?
<seb128> I got applet crashing at start like under unity yesterday
<seb128> it doesn't respect my keybindings
<didrocks> seb128: do you have the latest compiz?
<seb128> the workspace layout got reset to the default one
<seb128> dunno what you did since I went to bed
<seb128> let me check what is the latest
<seb128> I've the same versions than yesterday when we discussed
<didrocks> seb128: well, you removed the gconf settings, so your default worskpace layout is set
<didrocks> seb128: so, it's normal you don't have the keybinding, same version, same bug :)
<didrocks> for the ws layout, you resetted gconf yesterday
<seb128> right
<didrocks> so the "default profile" has no data
<seb128> well issues is that the wnck applet has 0 by 0 in its combo
<seb128> but it could be a compiz 0.9 issue
<didrocks> oh?
<didrocks> that's weird
<seb128> I didn't try to change my layout since I upgraded I think
<seb128> didrocks, well the applet has the correct layout
<seb128> it's just the properties dialog which is buggy
<seb128> changing values there doesn't work either
<didrocks> yes, I've already warned you about that :)
<didrocks> it's a compiz bug
<seb128> ok
<didrocks> so upgrade to latest version
<seb128> the fix from yesterday you did fix the keybindings imports as well?
<didrocks> you should have your keybindings back
<seb128> or just the capplet?
<seb128> the xml matching so the capplet display those entries
<seb128> ok
<didrocks> it should work with the import as it will be recognized
<didrocks> not sure if you have to reset your profile
<seb128> ok, let me upgrade and try
<pitti> hey seb128, how are you?
<seb128> hey pitti
<seb128> I'm fine thanks
<seb128> how are you?
<pitti> I'm great, thanks!
<pitti> mvo: guten Morgen
<pitti> mvo: sorry about the defer reject, I only looked at the debian/ dir in the branch yesterday
<mvo> hey pitti
<mvo> no worries
<pitti> didrocks: hm, I think we shold disable the gnome-panel under unity; I just booted today's daily and it looks pretty horrible
<pitti> about 5 crashes at start, and the rather defect gnome-panel sits on top of the unity panel
<didrocks> pitti: yeah, will do that once the meeting is finished
<didrocks> ok, back :)
 * pitti hugs didrocks
 * didrocks hugs pitti back
<rodrigo_> :)
 * pitti hugs rodrigo_ as well, how are you?
<rodrigo_> cool, I was feeling alone without being huged :)
<rodrigo_> pitti, fine thanks, and you?
<pitti> swearing at kvm, but otherwise fine, thanks!
<rodrigo_> heh
<didrocks> hey rodrigo_ :)
<rodrigo_> hi didrocks
<seb128> re
<didrocks> hey seb128!
<chrisccoulson> flying visit!
<didrocks> :)
<chrisccoulson> hi didrocks
<didrocks> hey chrisccoulson, how are you?
<chrisccoulson> didrocks - good thanks. i'll be better once i can get thunderbird to build ;)
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: and you want to as a default? :p
<didrocks> (kidding)
<seb128> didrocks, re
<didrocks> seb128: re
<bilalakhtar> didrocks: Just installed natty, and saw your great work with Unity
<didrocks> bilalakhtar: well, unity is more dx work TBH :)
<chrisccoulson> hi seb128!
<seb128> hey chrisccoulson
<seb128> I just wasted an hour trying to figure why the applets crash half of the time on session start with unity ang gnome-panel
<bilalakhtar> seb128: same thing here
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - oh, you figured it out? i get that too
<pitti> seb128: can they even appear on two panels at the same time?
<pitti> it's the indicators, not the applets, right?
<seb128> pitti, unity has no applets
<chrisccoulson> and compiz crashes on start too
<didrocks> well, as said, this was forced as we didn't have any indicator for network
<didrocks> but now, I remove gnome-panel
<seb128> didrocks, well I've gnome-panel issues in the classic session as well
<didrocks> wellâ¦
<didrocks> seb128: not sure for that one
<didrocks> ok, restarting sessionâ¦
<seb128> chrisccoulson, compiz crashes when I click on of the applet crash dialogs
<seb128> same for you I guess?
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - yeah, i think so
<seb128> njpatel, is unity supposed to indicate running applications or focussed applications with the small triangle at the right of launchers?
<seb128> chrisccoulson, ok, same here
<njpatel> seb128, focused applications
<seb128> njpatel, ok thanks
<njpatel> running applications have color behind their icons
<seb128> gotcha
<didrocks> seb128: tried again and reloading them doesn't crash compiz there
<seb128> njpatel, btw do you guys need pings on IRC for merge request reviews?
<seb128> didrocks, chrisccoulson has the same issue than me
<didrocks> maybe driver relatedâ¦
<chrisccoulson> yeah, i think it's the same issue. i got lots of applet crash dialogs, and when i closed them all, i realised i had no window borders any more
<seb128> njpatel, I've sent a trivial dee one last week to fix the build on natty
<chrisccoulson> so, i guess it's the same issue
<seb128> njpatel, but no review so far, I'm wondering if I did something wrong
<seb128> njpatel, the unity team is subscribed for review
<chrisccoulson> and Xorg keeps using 100% CPU after a few hours too. my laptop was roasting hot this morning when i woke up ;)
<didrocks> restarting in gnome-classic session with a clean profile
<seb128> chrisccoulson, what driver do you use?
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - i915
<seb128> ok, so intel as well
<njpatel> seb128, maybe ask kamstrup to take a look?
<seb128> njpatel, ok, so IRC pings are required, thanks ;-)
<chrisccoulson> oh no, i've ran out of coffee
<seb128> njpatel,  I'm fine with that but we should be careful to not ignore contributors who don't know who to ping on IRC
<chrisccoulson> and my gf is at her parents house, with the car!
<seb128> chrisccoulson, lol
<chrisccoulson> and it's too cold to walk to the supermarket ;)
<njpatel> seb128, it's not about ignoring seb128, it's obviously just slipped through
<njpatel> seb128, that happens to all projects :)
<seb128> njpatel, well as a contributor I feel like my first contribution got ignored which makes we not want to come back :p
<didrocks> ok, the applets are crashing in gnome-classicâ¦ not sure if it's compiz related or not, trying with metacity
<seb128> njpatel, joke aside I just wanted to check what works better for you guys to document it on the wiki
<njpatel> yeah, kamstrup is on a call with me right now, will ping him afterwards
<bilalakhtar> didrocks: FYI if I re-add the applets, it works
<didrocks> bilalakhtar: not sure what's the issue is, I'll make some tries
<seb128> in the unity session clicking on reload makes compiz crash there
<bilalakhtar> didrocks: BTW, 'menu bar becoming blank' is a known issue in unity or not?
<bilalakhtar> I can't find a bug
<seb128> how blank?
<didrocks> bilalakhtar: someone mentionned it on an unrelated bug, so please, open one
<seb128> you mean if ie firefox is focussed?
<didrocks> bilalakhtar: with lspci and such
<bilalakhtar> okay
<bilalakhtar> seb128: no, occurs with every app, even gnome-terminal and nautilus
<seb128> dunno then
<bilalakhtar> seb128: http://people.ubuntu.com/~bilalakhtar/Screenshot_natty.png
<seb128> rodrigo_, ok, I'm done with unity playing for a bit, I will do sponsoring now
<seb128> rodrigo_, do you have something else than gnome-panel and gnome-applets?
<didrocks> so, the crash is compiz related
<didrocks> very clear when you set your windowmanager to metacity, I tried 5 boots without any crash
<didrocks> I tried to deactivate the latest plugins I added: fade and animation, I still get some crashes
<chrisccoulson> is everybody else using unity now then?
<seb128> sort of, I switch between them
<pitti> I did for a while ,but switched back now
<pitti> focus-follows-mouse and appmenu just don't go together
<chrisccoulson> pitti - yeah, that's my main reason for going back too
<seb128> it creates flickering?
<chrisccoulson> focus-follows-mouse and dual screen make it completely unusable ;)
<didrocks> seb128: for appmenu
<pitti> no, it's impossible to catch the menu for the app you actually want
<seb128> oh, right
<chrisccoulson> yeah, that's my problem too
<seb128> uninstall appmenu-gtk?
<pitti> because while you move the mose, the menu switches to nautilus' or gnome-terminal's
<chrisccoulson> yeah, i might do. i'm not losing focus-follows-mouse ;)
<seb128> without appmenu-gtk you should just go back to normal menus
<pitti> that seems a nice package to file a bug against
<chrisccoulson> can unity not turn off the menu in configurations where it's not appropriate? i think the menu really shouldn't be displayed on my setup at all
<chrisccoulson> having to move to the other screen to open the menu is not good
<chrisccoulson> i have to move my hand half way across my desk ;)
<seb128> pitti, I think there is one about focus follows mouse open
<seb128> chrisccoulson, open a bug on unity about that
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - yeah, will do
<seb128> that's the sort of feedback which is useful since it targets the desktop this cycle
<rodrigo_> seb128, yes -> the 5 first branches at https://code.launchpad.net/~rodrigo-moya
<rodrigo_> :)
<chrisccoulson> pitti - i found bug 674138 and subscribed you to it
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 674138 in unity ""Global" appmenu breaks sloppy focus (affects: 7) (heat: 38)" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/674138
<seb128> rodrigo_, ok ;-)
<didrocks> ok, I think I got it
<seb128> rodrigo_, could you just put a commit id or bug reference in the gnome-panel patch?
<seb128> rodrigo_, we try to enforce the tagging policy nowadays ;-)
<rodrigo_> seb128, which tagging policy?
<didrocks> so, there are multiple bugs
<rodrigo_> seb128, ah, ok
<didrocks> seb128: can you file the bug you get (and that I don't reproduce) when clicking on "reloading", it crashes compiz?
<seb128> rodrigo_, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/PatchTaggingGuidelines
<didrocks> then, the crashing applets seems to be a compiz bug when gnome-panel has its starting animation
<seb128> didrocks, well done
<didrocks> seb128: thanks :)
<didrocks> seb128: I would apprecitate that you confirm it if possible
<didrocks> appreciate*
<seb128> didrocks, I will open a bug about the crash
<didrocks> I tried 5 restarts
<seb128> didrocks, how do I turn the animation off?
<didrocks> and don't get anymore crash
<didrocks> ok, that's where it will be tricky packaging side
<didrocks> it's part of the generated gnome-panel gconf keys
<didrocks> one sec
<didrocks> seb128: /apps/panel/toplevels/top_panel_screen0/enable_animations
<didrocks> and same for bottom_panelâ¦
<didrocks> (/apps/panel/global/enable_animations doesn't work as a master key)
<seb128> didrocks, ok
<seb128> didrocks, i've a phone interview in 10 minutes and I need to get ready for it
<seb128> but I will test that after it
<seb128> well I set the key but I don't want to start restarting my session now
<didrocks> seb128: sure, thanks a lot :)
<didrocks> seb128: just one question, on the keybindings: all is ok after the upgrade?
<seb128> thank to you!
<rodrigo_> seb128, pushed the tagging in the patch
<seb128> rodrigo_, thanks
<seb128> I will do the sponsoring after this phone call
<rodrigo_> ok thanks
<seb128> hum, just crashed compiz by scrolling in evince
<seb128> this new compiz is crash land
<seb128> didrocks, using the mouse whell in evince make compiz crashes
<seb128> didrocks, using the mouse whell in evince makes compiz crash
<didrocks> seb128: reliably? there was one on OOo, but it was fixed
<seb128> yes
<didrocks> I get one crash a day ~
<seb128> I just got it twice in a minute
<seb128> I use the scrollbar now
<didrocks> seb128: there are some crash fixes in trunk, but it depends on other part of code and cherry picking isn't easy
<seb128> it's probably the scrolling animation
<seb128> ok
<didrocks> so do you think I should make dist today?
<didrocks> and hope for not additional issues?
<pitti> chrisccoulson: cheers
<didrocks> (scrolling here in evince very fast isn't an issue)
<didrocks> but I have a nvidia card and the OOo issue we saw was on intel
<seb128> didrocks, don't bother with getting a new version in, it's still alpha1
<didrocks> yeah, I'm scrolling very fast and no issue
<seb128> ok, I'm away for this call
<didrocks> see you!
<seb128> compiz crashed when I clicked on the firefox launcher now!
<seb128> weird
<didrocks> seb128: did you say that the intel driver was great? :)
<didrocks> or that you get no issue with it? :)
<didrocks> time changes :-)
<didrocks> epoch*
<didrocks> seb128: I'm running it full time for the last two weeks and I have one to two crashes a dayâ¦
<didrocks> I need to make more test on my netbook it seems with the intel cardâ¦
<hyperair> my intel card works fine \o/
<hyperair> probably because i reported almost every crasher bug i hit already
<didrocks> :)
<didrocks> I'm just guessing that being hw related
<didrocks> because I have a totally different experience and there is almost no bug report on crashers
<didrocks> maybe it's not and just cpu/execution timing issue
<chrisccoulson> didrocks - ok, my first unity bug (bug 683084) :)
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 683084 in unity "Global menu doesn't work well with more than one screen (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/683084
<chrisccoulson> i'll probably be opening a few more caused by my setup this morning ;)
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: hum, there are a lot of multi-monitors bugs
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: let me look at this one
<chrisccoulson> didrocks, oh, i did search before, but i didn't find any
<chrisccoulson> that's how i found the sloppy focus bug too ;)
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: ok, those are more design issues that bug report
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: so for those, what we normally do is:
<didrocks> - upstream bug report -> incomplete
<didrocks> - package bug report -> incomplete
<didrocks> + adding an "ayatana design" task -> New
<didrocks> then, design can answer and change the unity status :)
<chrisccoulson> didrocks - ah, ok. i didn't know that
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: more a FYI and making my life easier :)
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: do you want me to do it or can you do it?
<chrisccoulson> didrocks, ok, done :)
<didrocks> thanks chrisccoulson :)
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: also, for each bug report, I tend to open an ubuntu and upstream task and get the same status
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: I think we don't plan to fork upstream and it can avoid dups :)
<seb128> re
<didrocks> re
<didrocks> already finished? :)
<Tm_T> fd
<seb128> didrocks, yes
<seb128> chrisccoulson, why did firefox open a "Thanks!"
<seb128> "Thank you for uploading your data"
<seb128> which is over my IRC
<seb128> when I didn't send any data!
<seb128> seems to be the feedback thing
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - yeah, that's from the test-pilot extension, but it's set to ask your permission by default
<chrisccoulson> it shouldn't have just uploaded stuff without asking :/
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - what is extensions.testpilot.alwaysSubmitData set to in about:config?
<seb128> it want me to promise to be careful
<seb128> not sure I can do that :p
<seb128> chrisccoulson, it's false
<seb128> chrisccoulson, it might be that it stealed my focus with the question and I hit enter
<didrocks> oh yeah, the "you can mess up your system, take care" :)
<chrisccoulson> yeah, possibly
<didrocks> we should do that in gconf-editor and say "not your fault \o/"
<bilalakhtar> haha
<seb128> re
<didrocks> re
<seb128> didrocks, ok, I suck, the CV was an odt so it was not evince ;-)
<seb128> I managed to crash my xserver this time though
<didrocks> seb128: ok, so it's the OOo crashâ¦ yeah, I didn't take that one, sorry :)
<seb128> well compiz did take xorg down with it
<didrocks> the x server?
<didrocks> oh badâ¦
<seb128> didrocks, well at least I restarted my session and it worked fine
<seb128> so it made me test the gconf change for the animation
<seb128> I just realized
<seb128> no crash ;-)
<didrocks> nice \o/
<didrocks> I'm still afraid it's a timing issue
<didrocks> so, maybe depending on CPUâ¦
<seb128> btw does anybody know what jasoncwarner work hours are?
<didrocks> he generally finishes at 9:30 (french time), not sure when he starts though
<didrocks> seems he doesn't sleep a lot :)
<didrocks> session restarts and final tests, brb
<seb128> chrisccoulson, there is a bug between firefox and compiz
<seb128> the test pilot dialogs are present on all workspaces
<seb128> not only over firefox
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - oh, interesting :)
<chrisccoulson> i'll have a look at that
<seb128> compiz crashed again as well
<seb128> ok, let's get something to eat and I will report that crasher
 * seb128 pets apport for catching it
<didrocks> :)
<bilalakhtar> didrocks: just saw your gnome-session upload, but not starting gnome-panel has a few consequences
<bilalakhtar> like Alt+F2 won't work
<didrocks> bilalakhtar: we discussed that this morning
<bilalakhtar> okay then
<didrocks> bilalakhtar: it's better than having both, and you can set it in the command plugin
<pitti> didrocks: hm, will that disable gnome-panel in a GNOME session, too?
<didrocks> pitti: the GNOME session is the "unity" session (the default one)
<didrocks> pitti: the gnome-classic session will still have the panel
<pitti> right, I mean the "GNOME" gnome session
<pitti> ah, good
<didrocks> yeah, it's using my gconf path on sessions
<seb128> pitti, you might want to send a meeting reminder today?
<pitti> oh, thanks for the reminder reminder, doing now
<seb128> ;-)
<didrocks> a reminder reminder is a must :)
<pitti> sent
<kenvandine> pitti, will do
<pitti> kenvandine: good morning, how are you?
<kenvandine> great, and you?
<pitti> splendid, thanks
<pitti> gtk-gi stuff is making progress :)
<pitti> I need to pay mvo another beer to do another python-defer upload, then a beer for glatzor, then two more projects will move away from pygtk
<kenvandine> :)
<kenvandine> yay
<pitti> oh, and of course a beer for you for appindicator :)
<kenvandine> not done yet :)
<pitti> since that's much harder, this will also include a big hug
<pitti> kenvandine: (I know, not that urgent)
<seb128> hey kenvandine
<kenvandine> hey seb128
<seb128> kenvandine, have you seen the bug I assigned you last week about libgwibber not building in natty?
<kenvandine> i wish we could drop the python bindings, but not yet
 * kenvandine looks
<kenvandine> vaguely familiar
<seb128> the reply is "no" then ;-)
<seb128> kenvandine, could you add that to your todo?
<pitti> kenvandine: oh, is it the python bindings for appindicator which cause trouble?
<kenvandine> will do
<seb128> thanks
<kenvandine> pitti, no, just a pain to maintain
<kenvandine> we need to keep them around for gtk2
<pitti> sbackup-gtk, lernid, virt-manager, ibus (jockey-gtk is prepared)
<pitti> so, a bit of work, but could be doable
<kenvandine> seb128, i suspect i know why it fails to build and it is fixed in trunk... just need to get it released
<seb128> kenvandine, ok
<kenvandine> i know trunk builds in pbuilder
<kenvandine> seb128, how urgent is it?
<pitti> kenvandine: if we (I) port these four, we could drop the bindings, right?
<kenvandine> no
<kenvandine> other upstreams that have used it... we had a big push to get people to use appindicator
<kenvandine> but for n+1
<pitti> we want to encourage upstreams to use py-ai instead of the gir?
<kenvandine> no, we want to encourage gir
<kenvandine> but the API will be a little different
<pitti> right, necessarily
<kenvandine> so we don't want to just break anything they have done
<seb128> kenvandine, not urgent
<seb128> kenvandine, next week will do
<kenvandine> seb128, ok, i want to break a few more bits of the api before doing another release :)
<pitti> kenvandine: if for nothing else, they need to port to GTK3
<kenvandine> indeed
<seb128> kenvandine, ok
<kenvandine> so we decided to give them a little more time
<pitti> kenvandine: so even having a compatibility shim of py-ai which translates to using the gir wouldn't mean zero porting
<kenvandine> so we will build python-appindicator for gtk2 only
<pitti> kenvandine: ok, understood
<seb128> it's not different from pygtk staying around for a while ;-)
<pitti> kenvandine: so for natty we'll have py-ai for gtk2 and a separate gtk3 version with gir?
<kenvandine> yes
<pitti> seb128: well, we need two appindicator APIs in parallel then
<pitti> since we can't mix gtk2 and 3
<pitti> (tried that, falling over horribly)
<kenvandine> if we can get libdee GIR working in python we can get rid of pygtk in gwibber too :)
<kenvandine> we are probably 50% done with the new vala client :)
<pitti> kenvandine: wow, you are rewriting gwibber in vala?
<kenvandine> the client
<kenvandine> njpatel did the cool part already :)
<kenvandine> pure gtk... no webkit
<kenvandine> it has been a "when we have time for it" thing, so no promises it will make it in for alpha2 :)
<kenvandine> but i am willing to lose lots of sleep over getting it done :)
<njpatel> hells yes
<kenvandine> blocked on dee now
<kenvandine> :)
<kenvandine> njpatel, you rock!
<pitti> kenvandine: heh, this *is* a pet project of your's as it seems :)
<kenvandine> i owe you beer!
<njpatel> kenvandine, I added support for filling up remaining space with extra tiles plus a few more fixes for rgba
 * pitti hugs njpatel
<kenvandine> njpatel, awesome, did you push it?
<njpatel> kenvandine, yep
<kenvandine> njpatel, i am really at the point where i need to get the service exposing the dee model
 * njpatel hugs pitti
<njpatel> pitti, I'm guessing non webkit is important to you too? :)
<kenvandine> hoping the dee problems get fixed soon :)
<seb128> pitti, right, I know about not mixing gtk version, that's why we keep most of GNOME3 in a ppa
<seb128> we will probably not touch system indicators as well
<njpatel> kenvandine, what were you blocking on with dee, again?
<pitti> njpatel: not particularly, why? I guess TheMuso will appreciate the better a11y, though
<seb128> but we need libappindicator bidding for each gtk
<kenvandine> njpatel, using dee with gir
<pitti> seb128: right
<kenvandine> in gwibber-service
<seb128> bindings even
<njpatel> kenvandine, aah, is that still not working?
<kenvandine> i think it is close
<kenvandine> but he had other priorities in front of me :)
<njpatel> pitti, nothing, seemed like you were excited, thought maybe you'd like the faster startup etc :)
<kenvandine> and much lower memory footprint :)
<pitti> njpatel: I'm always generally excited about better performance, yes :)
<kenvandine> nessita: i haven't forgotten about your upload, i got distracted last night
<nessita> kenvandine: no problem, dholbach was looking to it (I thought you asked him to do it)
<kenvandine> oh... i guess he just saw it in the queue
<kenvandine> i'll let him do it then :)
<kenvandine> i had a kid that didn't want to sleep last night, so didn't get back online until like midnight
<kenvandine> and by then was too tired to do any reviewing :/
<njpatel> pitti, Heh :) How is it coming back to platform this cycle? Missing OEM? :)
<njpatel> kenvandine, are you blocked on me/kamstrup or just upstream?
<pitti> njpatel: OEM was fun, but I actually like working on a product again which I use myself
<kenvandine> njpatel, kamstrup
<njpatel> pitti, ah, that's an interesting view point
<pitti> njpatel: I might do another rotation in the future, though; I had lots of time for hacking, which was nice
<kenvandine> njpatel, we think it is just a constructor
<njpatel> pitti, DX!!
<njpatel> :)
<kenvandine> at least that is the most obvious problem
<pitti> njpatel: and seeing the other side of "the fence" was an interesting view on its own right, to see what these guys are doing, etc.
<njpatel> pitti, then we can have easter eggs that come up with your head and a speech bubble that says "I Pitti the fool!"
<kenvandine> hehe
<pitti> I just loved that thin at UDS
<nessita> kenvandine: I hope things get better for you!
<kenvandine> things are great
<kenvandine> just my evening got a little interrupted last night :-D
<seb128> re
<kenvandine> njpatel, AttributeError: type object 'SharedModel' has no attribute 'new_with_name'
<kenvandine> that is what we get now in python using gir
<njpatel> kenvandine, hmm, why?
<kenvandine> not sure, kamstrup is going to look at the constructor once he clears some higher priority stuff from his stack
<njpatel> kenvandine, can you use other parts of the stack like sequence model etc?
<kenvandine> oh wait, that is the wrong error
<kenvandine> that is from me trying to work around it
<didrocks> seb128: I was rethinking about the defaults in the unity panel, we didn't set evolution there (because it was in the messaging menu). I don't remember why we didn't have the same conclusion for empathy
<kenvandine> (test.py:22884): dee-CRITICAL **: You must set the 'back-end' property of the DeeProxyModel upon creation.
<seb128> didrocks, dunno, it would make sense to do the same
<chrisccoulson> didrocks - "* default music playerban" - is that a typo? ;)
<kenvandine> njpatel, that is what we get from model = Dee.SharedModel()
<didrocks> seb128: ok, can still change that for alpha1, unity isn't released yet, let me do the change :)
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: should be :)
<kenvandine> and none of the signals seem to be there to connect too
<njpatel> kenvandine, weird :/
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: where is it?
<chrisccoulson> didrocks - https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/packageselection-desktop-n-application-selection (near the top of the whiteboard)
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: thanks
<bcurtiswx> is there any way I can see more details about why a patch fails.  upon comparing the patch to the code, the patch looks OK to me but won't push
<vish> sladen: hi, any reason Bug #350329 gnome-session task was switched from fix-committed Â» confirmed?  afaik, the desktop team preferred the task to be set to committed once it is fixed upstream (since they check and roll releases regularly) ... are we now not doing it anymore?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 350329 in gnome-session (Ubuntu) (and 2 other projects) "gnome-session-properties dialog is far too small (affects: 4) (dups: 1) (heat: 26)" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/350329
<sladen> vish: oh dear, in that case, I've probably caused some huge diplomatic incident again... yes, I guess in the case of GNOME where there is active importing going on it makes sense
<sladen> vish: it perhaps highlights a sub-optimal use-case in Launchpad
<vish> sladen: oh! cool.. :)   i thought we had changed the way we do it for this cycle, with unity and stuff having higher priority â¦
<seb128> the reason we do that in the desktop components is that it makes easy to see what bug have fixes available
<seb128> especially to see from the buglist what bugs to close in the next upload
<chrisccoulson> pitti - mozilla have just started the respin for ffox 3.6.13 now. am i going to cause you a problem for alpha 1 if i start ours now?
<chrisccoulson> (considering, i'm going to take up a lot of buildd time)
<pitti> chrisccoulson: does firefox build any arch:all packages?
<chrisccoulson> pitti - yes, there is an empty meta-package which is arch:all
<pitti> chrisccoulson: does it have strict dependencies to binary versions?
<pitti> if not, it should be okay
<chrisccoulson> pitti - oh, this isn't being uploaded to natty btw
<chrisccoulson> only every other release
<pitti> I just don't want to make the old armel package uninstallable if i386 already builds ffox, but armel doesn't
<pitti> chrisccoulson: oh; don't worry, go ahead
<chrisccoulson> pitti - cool, thanks
<bcurtiswx> is there a place to pastebin a screenshot so i can ask a question on it ?
<vish> bcurtiswx: imagebin.ca
<bcurtiswx> vish thx
<bcurtiswx> http://imagebin.ca/view/2ogKiw.html is a pic of a patch thats failing.. the line of the start of the patch matches the code and i can't see where the patch would go wrong.  any suggestions ?
<njpatel> I'm missing one didrocks again
<bcurtiswx> there's more than one didrocks ? that explains a lot :P
<njpatel> heh
<bcurtiswx> kenvandine, got a sec to look at my image link above and see if you see anything that I'm not?
 * bcurtiswx thinks didrocks needs one of those pull-tab waiting line numbering systems (like deli's have)
<rodrigo_> kenvandine, ping
<kenvandine> rodrigo_, pong
<kenvandine> hey bcurtiswx
<rodrigo_> hey kenvandine :-)
<rodrigo_> kenvandine, last week, my libu1 submission failed building -> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/59571483/buildlog_ubuntu-natty-i386.libubuntuone_0.3.8-0ubuntu2_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<rodrigo_> kenvandine, any idea what's wrong there?
<bcurtiswx> hi kenvandine
<kenvandine> bcurtiswx, nothing that i can see
<kenvandine> rodrigo_, looking
<bcurtiswx> kenvandine, that makes me sad, because it fails on the push
<kenvandine> on the push?
<bcurtiswx> yes quilt push -f on that patch fails in the area on the pic
<rodrigo_> kenvandine, cool, thanks
<didrocks> bcurtiswx: hehe :)
<kenvandine> rodrigo_, oh... that is fun :)
<rodrigo_> kenvandine, oh, is it? :)
<kenvandine> it is the ordering of builds
<kenvandine> since it does multiple passes
<rodrigo_> oh
<kenvandine> what did you change ?
<kenvandine> like the order of packages in the control file?
<kenvandine> or dependencies between targets in the rules file?
<kenvandine> i think you want to make it build in build-python2.6 before it builds in the default build dir
<kenvandine> configure and build
<rodrigo_> kenvandine, nothing related to that, afaik -> http://pastebin.com/uR0P5MWZ
<seb128> it probably won a python2.7 build since
<kenvandine> ah!
<kenvandine> yeah, that would do it it bet
<kenvandine> s/it it/it i/
<rodrigo_> kenvandine, yes, I (and mterry) found some problems with dh_python in natty, so might this be related?
<jcastro> didrocks: what's the "tricky gnome panel issue"?
<kenvandine> rodrigo_, perhaps
<kenvandine> but it could just be the build targets for pyversion
<didrocks> jcastro: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-desktop/2010-November/002689.html
<didrocks> enjoy :)
<kenvandine> rodrigo_, unfortunately, at least for me, it is something that takes a bit of trial and error
<rodrigo_> ok, I'll try several things
<kenvandine> rodrigo_, look at the depends between the targets in the rules file
<rodrigo_> ok
<kenvandine> i think it should configure, make, and make install for each python version before it starts the next
<jcastro> didrocks: that'll teach me to not catch up on the list
<didrocks> jcastro: :-)
<didrocks> jcastro: well, the traffic is low
<kenvandine> rodrigo_, actually, look at the order of packages in the control file first
<kenvandine> it isn't building for the python versions yet
<rodrigo_> kenvandine, hmm, python-ubuntuone is the 1st one
<kenvandine> humm
<kenvandine> i never fully understood how it chooses that order
<kenvandine> one sec
<rodrigo_> let me try moving it to the bottom
<rodrigo_> oh, ok
<jcastro> Laney: did the MIRs get an ack?
<kenvandine> rodrigo_, ok... so the problem is when it runs make -C build-python2.6
<kenvandine> it thinks it needs to configure
<kenvandine> rodrigo_, so yeah, look at the rules
<kenvandine> i think it needs to configure, make, make install for each
<kenvandine> instead of configure each, make each, etc
<rodrigo_> yes
<Laney> jcastro: no not yet
<Laney> :(
<jcastro> :(
<jcastro> Laney: is it just a matter of poking asac?
<Laney> not sure, you'll have to ask him
<jcastro> ok on it
<Laney> I targetted it to the A1 milestone
<cyphermox> chrisccoulson, remember why we don't remove doc/*.txt from connman anymore? were the files re-licensed or something?
<momelod> greetings channel
<momelod> I've an issue w/ the latest dist-upgrade to ubuntu 10.10
<momelod> since the upgrade my gnome-power-management is broken
<momelod> would anyone know if this is a known issue? or did i do something wrong during my upgrade.
<chrisccoulson> cyphermox, yeah, i think they were relicensed
<momelod> funny thing is i can `sudo /etc/acpi/sleep.sh` fine.  but i dont have the options to sleep, or hibernate.  Also, my monitor doesn't auto dim. and when my battery is depleted the machine does not automatically shutdown.
<cyphermox> chrisccoulson, thx. I asked on #connman but haven't received an answer yet...
<chrisccoulson> cyphermox, the main issue i think was the copy of an RFC that was shipped in the tarball
<chrisccoulson> but that has gone now
<bcurtiswx> seb128, do you know yet that nautilus crashes from the gnome3 ppa ?
<cyphermox> chrisccoulson, ah, cool
<seb128> bcurtiswx, it doesn't?
<seb128> bcurtiswx, you probably didn't get the new libnautilus-* with it
<bcurtiswx> apt-get install libnautilus-* ?
<seb128> no
<seb128> libnautilus-extension1
<didrocks> cyphermox: can you close bug #680298, please?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 680298 in unity (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "no network manager icon when running unity (affects: 6) (dups: 1) (heat: 530)" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/680298
<bcurtiswx> seb128, OK, also libgcr0 idk if thats from gnome3 PPA ro not, but it fails on install
<seb128> what error?
<cyphermox> didrocks, ah, right, thanks!
<bcurtiswx> seb128, http://paste.ubuntu.com/538318/
<seb128> bcurtiswx, seems a buggy version from the ppa, ask rodrigo_ about it?
 * bcurtiswx pokes rodrigo_
<rodrigo_> hmm
<momelod> does ubuntu have a repair option? like an install that overwrites the system files, but maintains the users home directories and 3rd party apps?
<rodrigo_> yes, seems an old version, seb128, did you upload the fixes you did yo gnome-keyring?
<seb128> rodrigo_, I did fixes?
<seb128> let me check
<rodrigo_> seb128, hmm, I thought you did
<seb128> I'm a bit behind on uploads
<seb128> rodrigo_, I don't think I did anything yet on gnome-keyring but you fixed it IIRC
<seb128> bcurtiswx, try to sudo apt-get install libgcr0/natty
<rodrigo_> hmm
<rodrigo_> oh, right, the correct packages are on the ppa (libgcr-3-0)
<bcurtiswx> haha, i keep killing seb128
<rodrigo_> bcurtiswx, seems to be an old version laying around on the ppa
<bcurtiswx> rodrigo_, sebs idea gave me same error as before
<rodrigo_> what error?
<bcurtiswx> http://paste.ubuntu.com/538318/
<pitti> bcurtiswx: stop scaring him away, dude! :-)
<rodrigo_> bcurtiswx, and what does apt-cache policy libgcr0 shows?
<mterry> Has anyone had problems with "3.0 (quilt)" packages trying to apply patches twice and thus failing?
<pitti> mterry: not me; what are you trying to do?
<rodrigo_> bcurtiswx, ok, I think it's the old broken package being still in the ppa
<bcurtiswx> rodrigo_, http://paste.ubuntu.com/538321/
<rodrigo_> can that ^^ be possible?
<bcurtiswx> pitti, sorry ;)
<mterry> momelod, this probably isn't the best channel -- try #ubuntu.  But as far as I remember, the installer itself will do that -- preserve /home.  Won't maintain 3rd party apps outside of /home though
<rodrigo_> bcurtiswx, right, the version in the ppa is 2.92.92.is.2.91.2-0ubuntu2
<rodrigo_> 2.92.92.is.2.91.2-0ubuntu1 is the old, broken, libgcr0
<seb128> re
<rodrigo_> so, how can it be the PPA still has a libgcr0 that was part of a previous upload?
<seb128> ok, back under GNOME, let's deal with pending sponsoring and updates
<mterry> pitti, trying to update anjuta, and I'm hitting this.  Let me get as simple a sequence as I can
<rodrigo_> seb128, were you running kde before? :D
<seb128> rodrigo_, no, unity
 * seb128 slaps rodrigo_
<rodrigo_> ah
<rodrigo_> :)
<pitti> seb128: wb; DSL reconnect or broken irc?
<rodrigo_> seb128, the lÃ±ibgcr0 problem is because the old broken package is still in the ppa repo, even though a new version was submitted, with the fixes renaming it to libgcr-3-0, so how can we remove that old package?
<rodrigo_> libgcr0, not  lÃ±ibgcr0 :)
<seb128> pitti, unity testing and crappy intel
<seb128> pitti, often the xserver goes down on user switching
<seb128> or when compiz crashes the xsession crashes
<bcurtiswx> seb128, that makes me feel alot better.. mine does the same thing
<rodrigo_> :)
<rodrigo_> pitti, so, no individual status reports any more on the meeting page?
<pitti> rodrigo_: that's how I understood it
<bcurtiswx> rodrigo_, bcurtis@wx:~/Desktop$ aptitude why libgcr0 --> i   seahorse Depends libgcr0 (>= 2.26.0)
<rodrigo_> oh
<rodrigo_> right, we need a new seahorse on the ppa it seems then
<bcurtiswx> yes
<seb128> rodrigo_, I doubt there is an old gnome-keyring is the ppa
<seb128> it's likely that bcurtiswx got that buggy version installed some time ago
<rodrigo_> seb128, http://paste.ubuntu.com/538321/
<rodrigo_> the version in the ppa is 0ubuntu2
<didrocks> ok, goodbye firefox again, the issue with launchpad waste me too many timesâ¦
<didrocks> time*
<micahg> didrocks: what issue?
<chrisccoulson> didrocks - which video driver are you using btw, i still can't reproduce it?
<didrocks> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/firefox-3.0/+bug/223238
<bcurtiswx> seb128, also my aptitude why libgcr0 says that seahorse depends on it and it can't be removed ATM.
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 223238 in clicompanion "lp:clicompanion is stacked on itself, giving maximum recursion depth error (affects: 2) (dups: 1) (heat: 14)" [High,Confirmed]
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: nvidia with the nvidia driver
<didrocks> there are a lot of dups
<seb128> bcurtiswx, rodrigo_: ok, you were right, I deleted the buggy gnome-keyring from the ppa
<rodrigo_> seb128, ok, but how that can be?
<seb128> https://edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop/+archive/gnome3-builds/+delete-packages has some "superseded" sources
<rodrigo_> if you submit a new version of the package, the old subpackages don't get removed?
<seb128> not sure why it keeps those though
<rodrigo_> ah
<mvo> didrocks: LP and stacking seems to be rather anoying, I ran into bug #681431
<seb128> well "had"
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 681431 in launchpad-code (and 1 other project) "confusing error when original stacked branch becomes invalid later (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/681431
<seb128> I deleted them now
<rodrigo_> seb128, ok, thanks
<didrocks> mvo: hum, I don't see the link with the rendering issue between firefox and launchpad TBH :)
<bcurtiswx> so soon with a dist-upgrade i won't have the gcr issue anymore?
 * kenvandine reboots right before the meeting
<kenvandine> :)
<rodrigo_> bcurtiswx, right
<seb128> bcurtiswx, right
<bcurtiswx> seb128, rodrigo_, awesome.  thx and i'll get out of the way for your meeting :)
<rodrigo_> bcurtiswx, sorry I didn't see it, I'm just updating selectively, no upgrade/dist-upgrade
<bcurtiswx> rodrigo_, i'll let you all know fo any errors i get in the future that IDK how to fix.. :)
<rodrigo_> bcurtiswx, ok, please :)
<mvo> didrocks: oh, """"lp:clicompanion is stacked on itself, giving maximum recursion depth error (affects: 2) (dups: 1) (heat: 14)""" is what the bot told me
 * pitti rings the meeting time bell
<mvo> didrocks: and that sounded similar to my bug. nevermind
<seb128> hey pitti
<pitti> -ENOJASON
<didrocks> mvo: hum, I'm wondering if I pasted the right bug report, my bad, nevermind :)
<pitti> chrisccoulson, didrocks, tremolux, Riddell, kenvandine, cyphermox, mterry, rodrigo_, seb128, tkamppeter: meeting time
<didrocks> doing that and other stuff in // isn't good :)
<cyphermox> yep :)
<didrocks> hey
 * tremolux waves
<mterry> heyo
<pitti> [TOPIC] action review
<tkamppeter> hi
<pitti> seems we didn't have any
<pitti> [TOPIC] partner update
<pitti> kenvandine: are you ready?
<rodrigo_> \o/
 * kenvandine is semi here
<pitti> [TOPIC] Kubuntu update
<kenvandine> no window manager :)
<pitti> Riddell: do you have something?
<pitti> kenvandine: alt+f2 compiz --replace?
<chrisccoulson> hi (sorry, was at my other computer there)
<kenvandine> gnome-session doesn't seem to be finishing starting
<kenvandine> i'll look at it in a bit :)
<kenvandine> classic gnome session didn't work either
<pitti> kenvandine: is that already your partner update? :-)
<kenvandine> yup
<kenvandine> hehe :)
<kenvandine> want me to do that while we wait for Riddell?
<pitti> please do
<kenvandine> U1 has a bunch of desktopcouch fixes queued up being reviewed now
<kenvandine> so lots of their A1 work items are "Fix committed"
<kenvandine> will be done tomorrow
<pitti> it's getting a bit tight for a1, so they should be moved to a2 now
<kenvandine> but i guess the uploads should wait until after thursday
<kenvandine> yeah
<kenvandine> i'll have them do that, but there is good progress there
<kenvandine> for DX
<kenvandine> dbusmenu and libindicator packages are ready for gtk2/gtk3 builds... but we are waiting until after A1
<mterry> kenvandine, can you get some attention for https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/couchdb/+bug/682866  ?  it's blocking a quickly update
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 682866 in couchdb (Ubuntu) "CouchDatabase() call hangs (affects: 2) (heat: 10)" [High,Confirmed]
<pitti> \o/
<kenvandine> and tedg has more API breakage he wants to do
<kenvandine> mterry, i will
<mterry> thx
<kenvandine> also
<seb128> kenvandine, will those be done by next week?
<kenvandine> seb128, yes
<kenvandine> this week in fact
<seb128> the API breakages
<seb128> I mean
<kenvandine> i just won't upload them until after A2
<seb128> 1 you mean? ;-)
<kenvandine> whoops
<kenvandine> yeah :)
<seb128> ok, makes sense
<kenvandine> same for gdbus
<kenvandine> that is all i have
<pitti> thanks kenvandine
<pitti> X update -> eastern edition
<pitti> [TOPIC] Unity update
<pitti> didrocks: anything which is currently blocking you or that we should be aware of for A1?
<pitti> FYI, I just respun a desktop image with your latest gnome-session fix
<didrocks> nothing blocked, just uploaded latest bits
<pitti>  http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/20101130.1/
<didrocks> pitti: oh, there is a new unity just uploaded
<pitti> test away
<didrocks> just making the short summary first:
<didrocks> Unity is the default in ubuntu now!
<didrocks> Now we have two sessions: one "Ubuntu Desktop" which launch unity by default and one "Ubuntu Classic" which launches compiz (if supported) and gnome-panel. The compiz profiles are separated as well.
<didrocks> We got a new Unity and Nux release, still improving the desktop experience, handle the migration with previous launcher settings
<didrocks> There is a new compiz with a lot of improvment and fixes like 2D/3D detection, fallback, fixes gconf backend and old transition settings migration
<didrocks> Unity and all compiz plugins now builds -dbgsym packages
<didrocks> (so, use apport to report unity backtrace)
<pitti> didrocks: congrats for landing all this by A1! great job, I know it was far from easy
<didrocks> pitti: thanks :)
<didrocks> pitti: so, there is a new bamf + nux + unity just uploaded
<didrocks> pitti: if that can make A1, will be nice
<pitti> ack
<pitti> tomorrow's dailies then
<didrocks> yes
<pitti> I'll make sure that we do that
<didrocks> thanks a lot pitti :)
<pitti> no worries
<pitti> thanks didrocks
<pitti> [TOPIC] Software-center
<tremolux> heyo
<tremolux>  * Released Software Center version 3.1.3, includes further performance improvements and bugfixes
<tremolux>  * Now tracking Software Center startup performance on reference hardware (Dell Mini 10) at:
<tremolux>   * http://people.canonical.com/~mvo/software-center/mini10-startup/startup-times.png
<tremolux>  * Additional Software Center startup improvements in-progress, further 20%+ speedup in a branch soon to be merged
<pitti> tremolux: anything which we sohuld be aware of or you want to announce?
<pitti> whoo
<pitti> tremolux: you have a "paste-on-hilight" trigger, don't you?
<rodrigo_> :)
<tremolux> yep, I am actually off having an espresso at Starbucks right now
<pitti> tremolux: did the startup performance get a lot better again with swithcing back to uncompressed indexes?
<pitti> tremolux: /me wants to see the source for tremolux.py
<tremolux> pitti: it did improve it, not sure how much
<mvo> its not much influenced by this as it was mostly using the binray cache, but for invalid-caches it does help (not measured how much though)
<pitti> 6 s on a Dell Mini 10, aka "abacus" is pretty nice
<mvo> more to come (we hope :)
<pitti> admittedly it's still 5 s here on a fast machine
<pitti> so it seems not to be much CPU bound
<mvo> 5s for you on a ssd with --measure-startup-time?
<pitti> mvo: with "count in my brain"
<pitti> yes, 250 MB/s SSD and 2.4 GHz quad-core
<pitti> but anyway, nice work on this!
<pitti> [TOPIC] release status
<pitti> http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/canonical-desktop-team-natty-alpha-1.html
<pitti> this doesn't look too bad, it by and large seems that everyone (on average) was just missing one WI
<pitti> we can easily transition them to A2 if they are blocked by the A1 freeze
<pitti> but please make sure that your WIs are up to date
<pitti> as for RC bugs, it's well within normal parameters right now
<pitti> would be nice if bryceh and RAOF could bring up bug 292214 in the eastern edition
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 292214 in xserver-xorg-video-mga (Ubuntu Natty) (and 2 other projects) "Xinerama broken since intrepid on MGA (affects: 14) (dups: 1) (heat: 124)" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/292214
<pitti> likewise bug 636311
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 636311 in xserver-xorg-input-evdev (Ubuntu Natty) (and 6 other projects) "Keyboard special keys interfere with mouse (affects: 198) (dups: 15) (heat: 780)" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/636311
<pitti> bug 676949 is marked for a1; does anyone feel particularly attached to shotwell?
<Sarvatt> pitti: MGA bug is fixed already
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 676949 in shotwell (Ubuntu) (and 3 other projects) "shotwell crashes on importing images (affects: 10) (dups: 6) (heat: 373)" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/676949
<pitti> we can easily move this to later, but it does sound relevant
<seb128> pitti, robert_ancell
<seb128> assign the bug to him
<pitti> seb128: I'll assign him, thanks
<seb128> thanks
<pitti> Sarvatt: awesome, thnaks
<pitti> that's all from my side for release status, questions?
<pitti> jasoncwarner: hello
<seb128> hey jasoncwarner
<jasoncwarner> morning guys
<seb128> jasoncwarner, perfect timing to miss the missing again :p
<pitti> jasoncwarner: meeting started 22 mins ago
<pitti> [TOPIC] new meeting report format
<chrisccoulson> hi jasoncwarner!
<pitti> so, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2010-11-30 used the new format
<pitti> I think we ought to go back to the previous template, though, to include actions and the various status reports
<pitti> but the "changes since last week" think looks pretty nice as a summary
<pitti> what do you guys think?
<didrocks> don't you think it looks like a draft? :)
<pitti> well, it is
<kenvandine> it did actually make me want to read over the list
<pitti> I mean the size and contents looks fairly appropriate to me for a team report of a week
<kenvandine> however, i think we should probably always append to the bottom, which would make it easier to go back and look at a second time
<didrocks> I agree with that
<pitti> I'm just curious how everyone likes it more or less now
<rodrigo_> it would be easier to read if it had sections, like 'Natty updates', 'software center', etc?
<pitti> rodrigo_: I think that'd be part of actually cleaning and writing them up
<pitti> this is supposed to be the raw input for the weekly report, AFAIUI?
<seb128> well it was a comment made last week
<seb128> we said we would try without category
<seb128> it would work as well to dump into categories
<pitti> seb128: you mean including folding partner, unity, etc. into that?
<pitti> well, worth a try
<seb128> yes
<pitti> might be the discretion of whoever will write this up
<seb128> <kenvandine> however, i think we should probably always append to the bottom, which would make it easier to go back and look at a second time
<pitti> to make something nice and readable
<pitti> seb128: ok, WFM
<seb128> kenvandine, robert_ancell suggested to sort it in real time by interest
<kenvandine> seb128, yeah
<kenvandine> but if i look at it this morning and then again later today
<pitti> seb128: so we should update our meeting template accordingly; I would like to see actions separately
<seb128> so it you are bored before the end of the list you get the key points
<kenvandine> i would have to read the whole thing again
<didrocks> kenvandine: just waitâ¦ there is no hurry to read it little by little, isn't it? :)
<mterry> didrocks, well, if it's being updated over the course of the week...
<seb128> didrocks, well one thing we said is that it could be used during the week to pick up blockers etc
<didrocks> seb128: in that case, we can have an "update" in bold? when it's filed after the meeting?
<kenvandine> perhaps if it gets compiled into another final weekly report, the person that does it could put it in order
<kenvandine> but while it is a WIP we just append to the end...
<didrocks> kenvandine: seems you volonteer :)
 * kenvandine hides
<pitti> ok, so let's try the full thing all the way up to the final mail
<kenvandine> ok
<pitti> jasoncwarner: we still need to incorporate the Eastern edition meeting there
<kenvandine> in general i like the concept behind it better than what we did before
<jasoncwarner> pitti: yeah, eastern edition is later today...
<pitti> jasoncwarner: is it ok for you if I just paste in the log from this meeting to the wiki page, and you merge the X.org updates etc. from Eastern edition?
<jasoncwarner> pitti: yup!
<pitti> ok
<pitti> [TOPIC] AOB
<pitti> anything else?
<jasoncwarner> pitti: I do
<pitti> please go ahead
<jasoncwarner> first, sorry for being late. two words: sick kid. ugh
<jasoncwarner> second, I have two things I wanted to discuss quickly
<pitti> oh, good luck with her/him!
<jasoncwarner> 1. Discuss dropping desktopcouch from the CD. Lets explore the possibility of removing this as a default package.
<didrocks> (onneeeeconfffff :/)
<pitti> we'd have to unseed evolution-couchdb
<pitti> which will probably require making this discoverable in evolution somehow?
<pitti> (installing the package from the net sounds fine, since all U1 only makes sense with an internet connection anyway)
<kenvandine> or in ubuntuone-preferences
<pitti> kenvandine: ah, good point
<kenvandine> they do that already for bindwood
<rodrigo_> yes
<seb128> didrocks wanted to get oneconf integration in ubiquity as well
<kenvandine> didrocks, that woud be cool!
<pitti> kenvandine: when you enable contacts syncing, you'd get an aptdaemon dialog for installing desktopcouch?
<didrocks> yeah, which means more work as installing desktopcouch on the same time
<kenvandine> yeah
<didrocks> but well, in any case, you need the network, so installing it in ubiquity while getting u1 credentials is doable
<didrocks> just more work
<pitti> didrocks: in terms of download resources, or also in terms of changing ubiquity?
<didrocks> pitti: changing ubiquity (just a guess) as it has to download it, starts it to then use it for oneconf
<didrocks> but again, just a guess and not a blocker "theorically"
<jasoncwarner> so what I hear is that right now the only thing on the CD that needs it is evolution and that needs a network to be useful anyway...it would require some patching on our part right now. Other things using it in the near future would be ubiquity and oneconf (both of which require network as well, right?)?
<didrocks> jasoncwarner: exactly, as you need network in any case, it makes sense
<pitti> jasoncwarner: ubiquity is the installer; it would be the conduit to get oneconf
<jasoncwarner> pitti: yeah, but do we require network in ubiquity when using ubuntu one/one conf?
<pitti> jasoncwarner: ubiquity/installer itself doesn't
<pitti> but it offers you to install extra driver pacakges and install updates if you have network
<pitti> enabling oneconf would use the same check
<jasoncwarner> pitti: ok...that makes sense
<pitti> i. e. it already has all the building blocks: checking connectivity, actions conditionalized on that, and installing pacakges
<didrocks> pitti: just need the launching services, but shouldn't be complicated to sneak in
<pitti> kenvandine: We alrady have a checkbox for syncing contacts in U1-prefs; can we use this, instead of patching evo?
<kenvandine> yeah
<pitti> sounds great
<didrocks> pitti: u1-pref is deprecated AFAIK
<kenvandine> they have the logic in there already for bookmarks
<rodrigo_> yes, u1-control-panel replaces it
<rodrigo_> so, we need to let nessita know about this
<kenvandine> so if you check bookmarks it installs bindwood
<didrocks> (still waiting NEWing btw :))
<pitti> kenvandine: that sounds perfect; can you add a work item for this for the U1 team?
<seb128> didrocks, will do it, the NEWing
 * nessita is here
<kenvandine> sure
<didrocks> seb128: thanks :)
<pitti> kenvandine: thanks
<nessita> kenvandine: u1prefs is being replaced
<pitti> jasoncwarner: ok, this seems like a good solution and consensus
<jasoncwarner> cool. does anyone think we shouldn't remove desktopcouch? I haven't heard anyone jump up and say we absolutely have to keep it. :)
<kenvandine> nessita, yeah
<seb128> jasoncwarner, pitti: the u1 team will be unhappy
<seb128> but out of this...
<rodrigo_> nessita, we're discussing about removing desktopcouch from the CD, and so have evo-couchdb and its dependencies installed when the user selects syncing of contacts in u1-control-panel
<seb128> I would say do it early and see what users think
<pitti> seb128: just because it's "theirs", or because it will make the user ecperience much worse?
<seb128> pitti, because they think it'll slow u1 adoption I think
<nessita> rodrigo_: I'm not sure about that, our roadmap does not plan for that
<jasoncwarner> seb128: ack on that. I'll go talk to them about it
<pitti> of course we won't drop it until that automagic install will be working
<nessita> rodrigo_: that meaning, is not a trivial adding to the control panel to install some packages to enable contact synch
<pitti> [ACTION] jasoncwarner to negotiate evo-couchdb dropping with U1 team, and automagic installation via u1-control-panel
<pitti> I think we can help with the control-panel integartion
<pitti> just to agree to the approach
<jasoncwarner> pitti: got the item :)
<pitti> jasoncwarner: what was the other thing you want to discuss?
<jasoncwarner> if that is settled...only other thing I have is
<jasoncwarner> 2. OOo is crashing in Natty right now :) Something to watch for (in other words could people test it).
<pitti> WFM (writer)
<didrocks> jasoncwarner: when scrolling?
<pitti> it does look a bit funny, though (the buttons have some shadow)
<pitti> but I guess that needs to wait for an OO.o maintainer
<seb128> jasoncwarner, works there
<jasoncwarner> pitti: didrocks: I had reports of a crash and I had a crash (might be unrelated...was asking people to watch for it).
<seb128> didrocks, this crasher crashes compiz not the application though
<pitti> jasoncwarner: right, current compiz crashes all the time
<didrocks> seb128: sometimes, compiz brings the application with him
<didrocks> it*
<kenvandine> not really unlike mutter :)
<Sarvatt> compiz doesn't crash often here, just gtk-window-decorator crashing and respawning constantly taking out window decorations
<jasoncwarner> pitti: I'm done :)
<jasoncwarner> thanks guys!
<pitti> cool, thanks everyone!
<tremolux> thx folks, good day all
<seb128> thanks
<didrocks> thanks :)
<rodrigo_> thanks :-D
 * kenvandine waves, time for lunch!
<mterry> yay
<seb128> hum, calendar reminder about the meeting
<pitti> jasoncwarner: ok, I'll paste the log; are you doing the final writeup, or should we rotate that in the team?
<jasoncwarner> pitti: I'll do it ...no worries
<tremolux> lunch me too
<pitti> dinner and off for the evening for me, cu tomorrow!
<didrocks> see you pitti
<tremolux> 'night pitti
<pitti> jasoncwarner: log pasted
<jasoncwarner> pitti: thanks! have a great night
<seb128> pitti, 'night
<seb128> rodrigo_, ok, I had some issues with gnome-panel and local changes so I didn't properly merges your patch so don't worry about the merge request
<seb128> rodrigo_, I deleted it but it's merged in and uploaded
<bryceh> pitti, last few comments on bug 636311 make it sound like it's been resolved but people don't know what updated to fix it... maybe kernel.
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 636311 in xserver-xorg-input-evdev (Ubuntu Natty) (and 6 other projects) "Keyboard special keys interfere with mouse (affects: 198) (dups: 15) (heat: 780)" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/636311
<seb128> kenvandine, https://code.launchpad.net/~fluteflute/ubuntu/natty/indicator-messages/indicator-messages-fix-658096/+merge/40473 btw
<dobey> seb128: hey. i can't make uploads to packages i don't have rights for, so i guess i have to file bugs with diff.gz attached to get them updated?
<seb128> dobey, or point to a vcs which has the upload to build
<seb128> or do a merge request against the packaging vcs
<kenvandine> seb128, yeah, waiting on the next update
<seb128> kenvandine, ok, I'm just pointing it because it's showing on the sponsoring queue
<seb128> kenvandine, thanks ;-)
<kenvandine> ah, i'll merge now just leave UNRELEASED :)
<dobey> ok
<seb128> kenvandine, thanks
<seb128> dobey, what package is that?
<dobey> seb128: right now, ubuntuone-dev-tools
<seb128> if they have a vcs do a merge request
<dobey> just the branch from the import from the original uploads
<dobey> should i merge against that, or just do the diff.gz?
<seb128> dobey, the standard way would be for you to get a checkout of the packaging vcs, do your changes, push somewhere on your launchpad account and request a merge back
<dobey> right
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - oh, you had an accident with gnome-bluetooth ;)
<cyphermox> kenvandine, I'm done preparing connman, if you want to review it
<fagan> getting an interesting bug with unity+flash+chromium
<fagan> Bug #683303
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 683303 in unity (Ubuntu) "Unity [compiz] adobe flash+chromium crash (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/683303
<fagan> the terminal didnt output anything very informative though
<seb128> chrisccoulson, I knew it would happen with that GNOME3 ppa
<seb128> would be nice if the ppa has a different upload target
<seb128> natty-ppa
<seb128> has -> had
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - yeah, i've nearly done that so many times as well ;)
<micahg> seb128: you can do that if you force the series in .dput.cf
<micahg> or on the cli
<micahg> err, maybe not on the cli
<seb128> you mean?
<seb128> like using natty-ppa in the changelog and having dput changing the files you upload?
<micahg> seb128: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/538387/
<micahg> seb128: that's for dput and you can use what you want as the series in the changelog
<micahg> the brackets is just what you pass to dput when uploading
<seb128> well I know how to upload to the ppa
<seb128> but will the ppa accept an upload to "natty-ppa"
<seb128> like having the changelog having "natty-ppa"
<seb128> so uploads to natty would fail
<micahg> seb128: only if you set the series in .dput.cf like I did (see the incoming line)
<seb128> well I would assume soyuz checks for known series
<seb128> jaunty is one
<seb128> but natty-ppa not
<micahg> seb128: right, setting in .dput.cf makes it not check the changelog for the series
<seb128> right
<seb128> but is the server side checking?
<seb128> I would assume soyuz will not accept an upload to "random"
<micahg> seb128: no, it should override the server side check
<seb128> hum ok, I need to try that, that seems weird
<micahg> seb128: https://help.launchpad.net/Packaging/PPA/Uploading#Using%20packages%20from%20other%20distributions
<seb128> micahg, thanks
<micahg> seb128: np
<dobey> seb128: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~dobey/ubuntu/natty/ubuntuone-dev-tools/devtools-012/+merge/42295
<seb128> dobey, ok, I've to run for a bit but I will sponsor that later if nobody else do it before
<dobey> seb128: ok, thanks
<mterry> didrocks, latest unity is not responsive to clicks, but does update itself visually....
<didrocks> mterry: it's working there and for other people
<mterry> hmm
<didrocks> I really have to go, more than 13 hours without any break and I will be killed soon there :)
<mterry> didrocks, kbye
<didrocks> mterry: try to ping smspillaz later (when he's awake) if you can catch him :)
<didrocks> mterry: also, try the gnome classic session to ensure it's not compiz related
<didrocks> bye guys :)
<bilalakhtar> gksu is in the desktop package set?
<cyphermox> bilalakhtar, apparently not.
<bilalakhtar> cyphermox: okay
<micahg> bilalakhtar: not any more, it's in desktop-core
<bilalakhtar> micahg: yup, got it
<devildante> how do you build empathy? apt-get build-dep empathy doesn't seem to be enough
<devildante> and the GNOME3 Stack PPA isn't either
<didrocks> ok, back for a few minutes
<didrocks> mterry: did you figure out your issue?
<mterry> didrocks, no, but I filed a bug... let me get the number
<didrocks> mterry: that's weirdâ¦ all unity is not reactive?
<mterry> didrocks, https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/683328
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 683328 in unity (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "Unity does not accept mouse clicks (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,New]
<mterry> didrocks, it is if I'm in the middle of an alt-tab...  ;)
<didrocks> mterry: waow, which version of nux do you have?
<jcastro> didrocks: from the list of A1 bugs from skaet_  I guess we'll have to MIR/Banshee after A1.
<didrocks> jcastro: yeah I've already postponed the task, the MIR isn't reviewed
<didrocks> and it's too late to switch the seed now
<didrocks> jcastro: but from A1, we will have working daily iso build, so not a huge issue
<didrocks> can be switched quite easily by default
<jcastro> nod
<didrocks> mterry: we lost you! do an alt-tab to answer :p
<didrocks> mterry: btw, you have a big compiz plugin list, maybe trying for to revert to default one?
<mterry> didrocks, woah, you did lose me
<mterry> didrocks, i'm back!
<didrocks> mterry: \o/
<mterry> didrocks, big compiz plugin list?  ok... how do I go back to default?
<didrocks> mterry: you have latest compiz right?
<mterry> didrocks, bleeding edge
<didrocks> nice, so
<didrocks> metacity --replace
<didrocks> because compiz won't help :)
<didrocks> then
<mterry> k
<didrocks> gconftools-2 --recursive-unset /apps/compiz-1
<didrocks> and gconftools-2 --recursive-unset /apps/compizconfig-1
<mterry> done
<mterry> now I do compiz --replace ccp?
<mterry> didrocks, ^
<didrocks> mterry: compiz --replace should be enough
<didrocks> (we have a distro-patch to add ccp when you have no plugin listed)
<mterry> nice, makes sense
<didrocks> not sure why upstream doesn't want it )
<didrocks> :)
<mterry> didrocks, ok, unity is up and responsive.  hopefully it will be next time I log in too.  I'll comment on bug
<mterry> didrocks, thanks!
<devildante> didrocks: that actually fixed my compiz crash, thanks :)
<mterry> didrocks, not sure why my compiz list was non-default
<didrocks> mterry: for bonus point, you can add plugins until it's not working :)
<didrocks> devildante: hehe, double fix in one command then? \o/
<devildante> :)
<didrocks> ok, so that was useful 20 minutes at least!
<mterry> didrocks, :)
<didrocks> now, it's really time to enjoy the evening
<didrocks> (with light heart and not last time "OMGUnityIsBroken" :))
<didrocks> ok, have a good evening everyone, see you tomorrow
<didrocks> s/time/minute
<chrisccoulson> pitti - am i ok to upload tbird to fix bug 682748?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 682748 in thunderbird (Ubuntu Natty) (and 1 other project) "thunderbird doesn't build in natty due to linker changes (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/682748
<seb128> chrisccoulson, you should ask on #ubuntu-release
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - yeah, i should do really :)
<ShacakaL> Hi friends
<micahg> chrisccoulson: assuming 3.1.6 works, I don't see the need to have 3.1.7 in alpha 1
<chrisccoulson> micahg - well, the 3.1.7 upload doesn't build. we should just fix it ;)
<micahg> chrisccoulson: right, but what if the build is broken even if it's successful
<chrisccoulson> i'll know if that's the case in a few seconds
<chrisccoulson> once it has installed
<chrisccoulson> if my laptop hurries up!
<jasoncwarner> Morning! Everyone. Meeting time! :)
<jasoncwarner> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2010-11-30
<jasoncwarner> bryceh: RAOF: robert_ancell: TheMuso: you guys here?
<TheMuso> Yep.
<robert_ancell> jasoncwarner, yup
<jasoncwarner> morning TheMuso: robert_ancell
<jasoncwarner> (giving RAOF and bryceh another minute)
<jasoncwarner> Ok...guess we should get started...
<jasoncwarner> was everyone able to update meeting notes? this is the week we are trying out something new.
 * jasoncwarner gives everyone a minute to load and review page *very* quickly
<TheMuso> Totally slipped my mind. I must admit I am a bit absorbed with the unity a11y stuff atm, absorbed to the point where I tend to forget administrative matters occasionally.
<jasoncwarner> western edition has some comments (see chat log on format).
<chrisccoulson> oh, i just added my bits to the summary, i probably should have done that earlier though ;)
<jasoncwarner> chrisccoulson: thanks ;)
<jasoncwarner> Ok...moving on to topics
<robert_ancell> how do the eastern edition people find the notes for reading?
<TheMuso> I find them ok.
<robert_ancell> ok, better? ok, same?
 * jasoncwarner notes the lively bunch this morning. 
<jasoncwarner> ;)
<TheMuso> For me, its no different to how things were, since I tend to be aware of what is going on already./
<TheMuso> The format is easier to digets though.
<robert_ancell> TheMuso, so did you previously read them, and do you read them now?
<TheMuso> I read them now because feedback is wanted. I tended to read reports of those people's work that affects me, or interests me.
<TheMuso> I do prefer the older meeting summary format./
<TheMuso> though
<robert_ancell> TheMuso, ok.  What aspects of the older format do you think the new format is missing?
<RAOF_> Sorry; compiz thought that was a good time to wedge my desktop.
<TheMuso> A list of action items, partner update, kubuntu update, etc.
<robert_ancell> RAOF_: heh, know that
<robert_ancell> TheMuso, ok, so we still have action item.  The headings are not there for this trial, but I'm going to make an alternative write up with headings so we can compare
<jasoncwarner> RAOF_ :)
<chrisccoulson> i like the general summary idea in the new format, but it seems to have ended up with there being a lot of text, and presented in a slightly disorganized way
<TheMuso> ok.
<TheMuso> chrisccoulson: Yeah I agree with that.
<robert_ancell> chrisccoulson, do you think a few headings (X, Unity etc) will improve that?
<RAOF_> I noticed that I was the ony person who did any updates to it during the week.  Unless I was looking at the wrong place :)
<robert_ancell> jasoncwarner, do we have any actions to put in that section
<robert_ancell> RAOF_, you were :)
<chrisccoulson> robert_ancell, yeah, a few headings would definately help there
<TheMuso> As I said, I tend to gravitate to those things that affect/interest me only, so sorting with some kind of heading structure would make that easier.
<TheMuso> Granted, a lot of the desktop goings on do interest me.
<Amaranth> I wish launchpad had some way of making package groups so I could see all of the bugs from several packages at once
<jasoncwarner> robert_ancell: I have an action, but haven't gotten to it yet. though, my action is to mail out summary ;)
<seb128> hey guys ;-)
<RAOF_> Amaranth: That would be pretty useful; moreso if you could do tag groups (like: kernel bugs marked âradeonâ + xserver-xorg-video-radeon + Xorg bugs)
<jasoncwarner> hey seb128
<seb128> robert_ancell, jasoncwarner: I find the sections easier to read as well
<RAOF_> Good evening seb128
<seb128> hey RAOF
<robert_ancell> seb128, hey
<Amaranth> RAOF_: I want it for compiz packages :)
<seb128> well I find the summary easier to read with section
<seb128> like having a clear summary of the s-c, unity, xorg worlds
<Amaranth> At one point I moved all of the bugs to the compiz package for just this reason but the bugsquad outsmarted me and moved a lot of them back and new bugs of course don't go to the right place
<jasoncwarner> seb128: I think that is the general comment... robert_ancell was going to try an adapted format with headings...
<seb128> Amaranth, the best way is to get a team subscribed to all the components you want to watch and watch the team bug
<RAOF_> Amaranth: Talk to bryceh about getting one or more arsenal scripts to do what you want?
<seb128> or that
<jasoncwarner> ok...on to quick topics for eastern edition
<Amaranth> Yeah, I should see if we can get the compiz packagers team subscribed to all of them
<jasoncwarner> [TOPIC] X update
<seb128> jasoncwarner, right, I was just giving my personal opinion on the summary from this week
<robert_ancell> so, I wanted to try the minimum complexity report, and now we have a baseline we can try headings
<Amaranth> I think it's only subscribed to compiz
<jasoncwarner> RAOF_ or bryceh?
<Amaranth> Oh, am I interrupting a meeting?
<RAOF_> X update:
<jasoncwarner> Amaranth: it's all good! no worries...we are going to be quick anyway...
<RAOF_> Mesa 7.9 merged from Debian; this includes a switch to the gallium r300 driver and we're also building the r600 gallium driver (but it's not enabled by default)
<RAOF_> There's also a new xorg.conf option to switch between the two drivers - ForceGallium true will enable the gallium driver, ForceGallium false will enable the classic driver, and omitting the option will choose the default.
<bryceh> heya
<RAOF_> Mesa also shaved many megabytes of it's install size by dynamically linking the DRI drivers.
<bryceh> we also brought up idea of moving to xserver 1.10
<RAOF_> There doesn't seem to be anything radioactive in 1.10, so we'll probably choose to ship it in Natty, but the discussion has just started.
<jasoncwarner> oh, bryceh and I were talking about wayland and 3d v 2d drivers for chipsets like nvidia. ....he mentioned I should ask about 3d state in -nouveau drivers... I think that is for RAOF?
<RAOF_> Ok.  3D state in nouveau is: Upstream still doesn't want bug reports.
<RAOF_> However, the 3D is pretty solid.
<RAOF_> It's no less solid than some other DRI drivers we're shipping - savage, mga, etc.
<bryceh> of the userbase numbers I've seen, NVIDIA graphics hardware is by far the most widely owned
<bryceh> which means if we had a solid nouveau+unity story, then the unity play will go a lot further
<jasoncwarner> bryceh: that was going to be my question...I guess I can update to unity and try nouveau and see :)
<RAOF_> There are a couple of remaining problems - nouveau 3D is more likely to hit paths that end in a GPU lockup, and nouveau doesn't yet have powermanagement (although that looks moderately likely to land in 2.6.38)
<RAOF_> And then there are some newer chips which nouveau won't drive at all, but that's somewhat par for the course. :/
<bryceh> an uneviable choice we have
<bryceh> we can opt to stick with non-3D nouveau, and thus limit how many people will be able to run unity by at least 50%
<jasoncwarner> thanks, RAOF_ ...I'll probably ping you later to discuss a bit more
<jasoncwarner> bryceh: is that glass half full or half empty talking? ;)
<robert_ancell> or damned if you do, and damned if you don't
<bryceh> or we can enable 3D on nouveau to support unity, but likely cause widespread breakages, and lots of bug reports that we won't be able to do anything about (since upstream won't take the bug reports, and since gpu hang bugs are insanely hard to troubleshoot)
<bryceh> I think robert_ancell has it.  ;-)
<jasoncwarner> :)
<RAOF_> I don't know how likely widespread breakages are, although they're certianly a risk.
<jasoncwarner> ok... bryceh and RAOF_, I'd like to talk more outside the meeting just so I have a feel for it.
<jasoncwarner> cool?
<RAOF_> Yup.
<bryceh> well one last question... does unity run on -nvidia ?
<RAOF_> Yes.
<chrisccoulson> didrocks runs it on nvidia i think
<bryceh> ok, then no problem
<RAOF_> Like kwin, many of the DX team develop on nvidia systems :)
<chrisccoulson> i steer clear of nvidia systems having owned a nvidia based desktop for years
<chrisccoulson> :)
 * TheMuso recently swapped out the NVIDIA card in his desktop for a 2nd hand amd card.
<RAOF_> The AMD cards do have the advantage of working out of the box, yeah. :)
<TheMuso> Although my notebook has NVIDIA, so I don't get to avoid it entirely
<bryceh> the wayland + unity + nouveau combo we probably don't need to worry about getting sorted for natty
 * RAOF_ shudders
<bryceh> ;-)
<RAOF_> Are we going to have a wayland + unity + *anything* combo for Natty?
<jasoncwarner> next topic [TOPIC] A11y
<jasoncwarner> RAOF_ wayland? no
<RAOF_> Yeah, didn't think so.
<TheMuso> Not really much to report. Started working on a an a11y design for the launcher, but was then asked to look at the unity panel, as the qa team want to start automated testing on it.
<TheMuso> The issue with the unity panel is whilst one can navigate menus once clicked on, i.e navigate up/down menus, one cannot move from one menu to another using arrow keys.
<TheMuso> Whilst not an a11y issue as such, it does prevent testing, and general keyboard usage.
<TheMuso> A solution also needs to be found for labeling indicator icons in the accessibility framework, which I am currently looking into now.
<seb128> the left,right not working issue is a bug
<TheMuso> seb128: Yes exactly.
<seb128> did you let the unity team know it's blocking testing?
<TheMuso> njpatel asked me to look at the panel because QA wanted to test it, I just had a play with the panel as much as I could and reported my findings.
<TheMuso> So I think they are aware that its blocking testing.
<jasoncwarner> TheMuso: I would confirm...just to be sure..
<TheMuso> Ok.
 * TheMuso feels stretched in multiple directions atm...
<TheMuso> :)
<jasoncwarner> [TOPIC] Anything Else?
<jasoncwarner> robert_ancell: wasn't sure what you wanted to report
<robert_ancell> jasoncwarner, report?
<robert_ancell> just the usual gnome2.32/gnome3 updates from me
<robert_ancell> One last thing, I tidied up the formatting of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2010-11-30 and added sections
<bryceh> robert_ancell, I like the new format a lot.  much easier to grok
<robert_ancell> bryceh, needs some graphs though :)
<bryceh> I have one!
<bryceh> http://www2.bryceharrington.org:8080/X/Reports/ubuntu-x-swat/totals-natty-workqueue.svg
<bryceh> kind of a boring graph, but in this case that's a very good thing ;-)
<robert_ancell> bryceh, nice :), we need an easy way to drop that sort of thing in
 * jasoncwarner notes his love of graphs
<bryceh> this is enabling us to keep tight track of *all* xorg bugs filed against natty
<seb128> bryceh, what do you consider the "workqueue"?
<seb128> the bugs which have a natty task?
<bryceh> seb128, bugs that need our attention; i.e. that are not Incomplete without response, or forwarded upstream, or fix committed
<bryceh> seb128, no it looks for bugs that have  a tag 'natty'
<seb128> the count seems really low...
<bryceh> apport and arsenal add 'natty' tags automatically where we can determine the user's version based on logs
<bryceh> seb128, yes but we're still pre-alpha-1
 * TheMuso notes his dislike of graphs.
<bryceh> my experience has been that it'll go up exponentially as we get towards beta
<seb128> well, you consider that all issues open before natty don't concern natty unless someone checks and confirms it's still an issue then?
<seb128> (just curious of other teams workflows)
<bryceh> seb128, that's correct
<bryceh> seb128, I might bug-spam people to ask them to re-test maverick bugs against natty after alpha-1 or alpha-2, as I've done in the past
<bryceh> and then if they run apport-collect it should re-tag them natty
<bryceh> and then they'll appear on this chart :-)
<bryceh> TheMuso, that's a fair point.  It would be pretty straightforward for me to represent the data in a table format as well
<TheMuso> bryceh: ok cool.
<bryceh> TheMuso, which would be displayed in a format similar to http://www2.bryceharrington.org:8080/X/Reports/ubuntu-x-swat/patches.html
<TheMuso> ok
<bryceh> TheMuso, just let me know if it is something you would use, I'd be more than happy to set it up
<TheMuso> bryceh: Thanks for the heads up, will let you know if I am interested.
<seb128> bryceh, interesting
<seb128> I'm still trying to figure how to deal with desktop bugs
<bryceh> TheMuso, already collecting the data and generating a few graphs for audio bugs - http://www2.bryceharrington.org:8080/X/Reports/ubuntu-audio/
<seb128> we pretty much stopped dealing with them and rely on qa or triager to raise issues nowadays...
 * TheMuso looks.
<seb128> but it's not really optimal
<bryceh> seb128, so far I'm liking this approach, it helps us focus on ones confirmed as natty bugs, and we can get to them very quickly (same day service) if the user filed them using apport
<bryceh> and it feels good to be able to drive a graph to zero :-)
<TheMuso> Audio is a firehose as well, so we tend to just deal with them as they come in, as best we can. Because we often have to wait a long while before we can actually get fixes into the dev release at the time, its just easier to work upstream and let users know when the fix has arrived.
<seb128> well you can get to triaging quickly
<seb128> but it means you might get old bugs slipping out easily
<bryceh> TheMuso, *nod*.  I sometimes do similar, that's why I count "forwarded upstream" as a (temporary) resolution to exclude the bug from this chart
<TheMuso> Right.
<bryceh> I think I have it set so when the upstream bug gets marked fix released, it'll show up again in the work queue (so I can decide about backporting the fix)
<bryceh> there's also a separate report just for those types of bugs - e.g. http://www2.bryceharrington.org:8080/X/Reports/ubuntu-audio/upstream-fixed.html
<bryceh> robert_ancell, are we going to continue to use the new meeting report format for next week?
<seb128> bryceh, could you get a timestamp on the pages?
<bryceh> seb128, yep, sure can
<robert_ancell> bryceh, I want to, I guess it's up to jasoncwarner?
<seb128> bryceh, http://www2.bryceharrington.org:8080/X/Reports/desktop-bugs/
<robert_ancell> I think most people are convinced it's the same or better
<seb128> bryceh, does the timestamps there means only the milestone one is updated?
<seb128> robert_ancell, I think most people will be convinced it's better with your formatting update you did ;-)
<bryceh> seb128, yes, but I'll get those flipped back on.  Sometimes launchpad chokes with some of the larger bug collections
<seb128> robert_ancell, I think most people will be convinced it's better with your formatting update you did ;-)
<seb128> ups
<seb128> bryceh, ok, thanks
<seb128> bryceh, did you think about getting those scripts run on a people page rather than your own server?
<seb128> would that be possible?
<seb128> (like depends available etc)?
 * jasoncwarner can't tell if we are still having meeting anymore (not saying much about my moderation skills ;) )
<robert_ancell> jasoncwarner, break out the gavel
<jasoncwarner> [END MEETING] :)
<jasoncwarner> robert_ancell: btw..like the newly formatted wiki as well.
<jasoncwarner> groups help me and I like the summary also
<seb128> I like having the words highlighted
<RAOF_> Yeah, that's really good.
<bryceh> seb128, I used to rsync the results onto the people page but elmo asked not to do that since he didn't want automated things with ssh keys
<seb128> bryceh, well that would not be really useful (out of sparing some load from your server)
<bryceh> seb128, I have on my todo list to investigate running the scripts there but it's a bit tricky due to dependencies and stuff
<seb128> I was rather asking because things running on people can be edited by any platform team member
<micahg> jasoncwarner: got a minute for a PM?
<seb128> like having the work items tracker there is a nice win for pitti and for others as well
<seb128> it means any team can tweak their queries
<seb128> bryceh, ok
<seb128> not sure how much you need
<bryceh> seb128, ah, true, I've just assumed no one else would be interested in helping maintain the jobs, but it's worth considering
<seb128> I would be interested maintaining the desktop ones
<seb128> or at least helping maintaining those :-)
<jasoncwarner> micahg: certainly
<bryceh> ok cool, I'll poke around on people and see what's available.  There's one dependency for doing html templates which I know won't be there but I can probably replace with a different one (the one the security team uses).
<bryceh> with the wayland stuff winding down, I can turn focus to working on the reporting stuff more
<RAOF_> bryceh: Oh, thinking of which, is there anything more in the mesa department you'd like me to review?
<bryceh> RAOF_, next step with that is to make sure wayland works on radeon and nouveau, so making sure mesa is packaging the right bits there is the big thing
<bryceh> after that, the focus would turn to getting the packaging bits and pieces (like cairo-gl) accepted into the archive
<bryceh> which doesn't have to be done for natty, but the more we can get done, the easier waylandy things will be in the future
<RAOF_> Right.
<bryceh> RAOF_, so I'd be interested in hearing of any of the packaging that can't be taken into natty for whatever reason, so we can explore/resolve those issues in coming weeks/months
<RAOF_> We should be able to get all the mesa ducks in a row at the very least.
<RAOF_> Hm.  Is there no natty build of wayland in the PPA?
<bryceh> RAOF_, not yet, just been focusing on maverick
<RAOF_> Ok.  When there is I'll test on my nouveau & radeon systems.
<bryceh> but I think that's close enough to done that we can do natty builds
<bryceh> alright desktop-bugs is re-enabled - http://www2.bryceharrington.org:8080/X/Reports/desktop-bugs/
<bryceh> hmm, I bet a lot of the bugs on http://www2.bryceharrington.org:8080/X/Reports/ubuntu-x-swat/upstream-fixed.html could be closed
<bryceh> RAOF_, as you package new releases ^^ might be a useful report for finding bugs #'s to include in changelogs to auto-close ;-)
<RAOF_> :)
#ubuntu-desktop 2010-12-01
<hernejj> Hello :) I'm testing Natty daily build 20101130 and I'm not seeing any panels/Unity.
<hernejj> This bug #683403 appears to address this problem, but comment 1 states it is "not as a bug report."
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 683403 in gnome-session (Ubuntu) "natty 20101130.1 without panel (affects: 1) (heat: 8)" [Low,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/683403
<hernejj> Can anyone shed any light on this situation?
<charlie-tca> Are you on hardware or VM
<hernejj> VirtualBox
<RAOF> And do you actually have 3D working in VirtualBox?
<charlie-tca> the fallback is not in the alpha1 images. It won't happen until alpha2. If you choose classic desktop session at login, it will give you panels.
<charlie-tca> It just doesn't happen automatically
<hernejj> I know I enabled 3d acceleration in my VM options, but I've not done anything else to configure it.
<RAOF> You also need support in the guest; the (pastebinned) output of glxinfo would be instructive
<hernejj> So the problem is that I apparently do not have proper 3d acceleration therefore Unity is failing to start. ?
<RAOF> Yup.
<RAOF> Currently, the failure mode of unity is a blank desktop.
<hernejj> I see.  I'll use classic mode to install guest additions and then try again.  Thank you both for the helpful information:) Happy bug hunting!
<RAOF> Fun fact: gnome-do loads successfully in the Unity fallback mode, meaning you can still have a useful launcher :)
<kenvandine> robert_ancell, DUDE!  You ARE my hero!
<kenvandine> just got a new wifi all-in-one printer... i launched simple-scan and it just worked!
<kenvandine> no config at all!
<robert_ancell> kenvandine, ?
<robert_ancell> oh simple-scan - you're welcome!
<kenvandine> :-D
<kenvandine> half of the manual is dedicated to how to make the scanner work from windows :)
<TheMuso> kenvandine: That makes it all the sweeter. :)
<kenvandine> yup
<kenvandine> setting up the printer was pretty damn simple...
<kenvandine> but simple-scan was even better
<kenvandine> it just worked :)
<TheMuso> Hrm launchpad being down may be a good sign that I shoudl have a break. Back soon
<pitti> Good morning
<pitti> bryceh: ah, thanks for the heads-up
<robert_ancell> pitti, hey, could you let yelp-xsl (gnome-doc-utils replacement) and lightdm (...) out of the NEW queue?
<pitti> robert_ancell: will do in a minute
<robert_ancell> pitti, cheers
<bilalakhtar> robert_ancell: Why valac-0.10 for shotwell? Why not 0.12?
<robert_ancell> bilalakhtar, it doesn't compile with 0.12 and the patch would be non-trivial.  I believe they want to stick with 0.10 for now so they can backport to lucid
<bilalakhtar> robert_ancell: okay
<robert_ancell> (a lot of GTK common symbols changed name)
<robert_ancell> common GTK
<pitti> robert_ancell: thanks for fixing the shotwell crash!
<pitti> argh compiz pain
<robert_ancell> pitti, you felt it from there (my compiz just crashed)
<robert_ancell> bye all
<pitti> robert_ancell: good night!
<pitti> robert_ancell: that was a short night!
<bryceh> pitti, yeah in fact I think that bug just "inherited" its natty nomination because it had a maverick nomination
<pitti> right
<bryceh> I'm not certain anyone actually tested it on natty and took an action to target it to natty
<bryceh> still, worth getting it cleaned up
<pitti> if it was fixed by a kernel point release, it sohld also be in .37
<bryceh> theoretically, yeah
<bryceh> pitti, btw at the eastern meeting we ended up talking a bit about http://www2.bryceharrington.org:8080/X/Reports/ubuntu-x-swat/totals-natty-workqueue.svg
<bryceh> pitti, particularly around the workflow of focusing on bugs that are tagged $release
<bryceh> pitti, I know ubuntu-bug adds 'natty' tags for xorg (thanks!) but I wanted to ask if apport-collect does this as well, and if not, whether it should?
<pitti> ubuntu-bug adds natty tags for any bug report
<pitti> I'm not that sure about collect, as people might run it on different releases
<pitti> my gut feeling is that we only want to know for the original reporter
<bryceh> yeah I was gonna suggest the same
<pitti> but of course if the bug doesn't have a release tag at all (i. e. was reported without apport) it might
<bryceh> I think as long as it's limited to the original reporter, it does make sense to add the tags for other releases
<bryceh> there's no problem (from my perspective) for a bug to be tagged for multiple releases
<bryceh> in fact it might come to be a good way to mechanically measure how long the bug has been a problem or something
<pitti> the retracer gets confused by this, but usually it shold get to the initial report quickly
<didrocks> good morning
<pitti> hey didrocks
<didrocks> hey pitti, how are you?
<pitti> much better than my current natty desktop, anyway :)
<didrocks> pitti: oh?
<pitti> bit tired (still getting used to getting up early), but fine
<pitti> didrocks: compiz and panel applet/indicator crash-o-rama
<pitti> I just switched to metacity, to be able to start mumble
<didrocks> it's just for that week that you get up early, isn't it?
<didrocks> is it unity or compiz crashing?
<pitti> didrocks: get up> yes
<pitti> didrocks: compiz; it also crashes with classic
<didrocks> ok, did you post some stactrace?
<didrocks> pitti: there is a fix in trunk for OOo, not sure if it can help you
<jasoncwarner> didrocks: did you do the fix for OOo?
<pitti> didrocks: the crash dump is 55 MB
<didrocks> pitti: I just didn't take it because I have to take a lot of others things in trunk for the patch to apply
<didrocks> jasoncwarner: ^^
<pitti> didrocks: so I didn't upload it yet, as it would make my internet link unusable for about an hour
<didrocks> pitti: ok :)
<pitti> didrocks: I can upload it over lunch
<pitti> didrocks: but I guess it's already reported; it crashes like 10 times a day
<didrocks> from my experience, "make dist" in compiz trunk is alwas fun :)
<didrocks> pitti: well, I have rarely one to 2 crash a day hereâ¦
<didrocks> even on mumble
<didrocks> seems to be a race issue
<pitti> "apport-crash natty" -> plenty :)
<didrocks> pitti: hum? I think I don't know how to use advanced search in launchpad then :)
<didrocks> (I'm looking on compiz)
<didrocks> and looking at the tags
<pitti> didrocks: well, "3", but bug 677906  has some dupes
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 677906 in compiz (Ubuntu) "compiz crashed with SIGSEGV in GLTexture::bindPixmapToTexture() (affects: 8) (dups: 4) (heat: 42)" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/677906
<didrocks> pitti: I think this one is the OOo one which is fixed in trunk
<didrocks> but as said, I'm not confident breaking everything for alpha1 :)
<didrocks> oh no, it's not
<didrocks> it's an old one
<didrocks> well, it should be invalid, not sure why david set it
<didrocks> the eventloop is totally different in natty
<pitti> jasoncwarner: hang on, push-to-talk button broken; fixing
<didrocks> pitti: do you have an handy link to the Release note?
<didrocks> I'll document the "no panel" cases
<pitti> didrocks: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NattyNarwhal/TechnicalOverview
<pitti> didrocks: merci
<didrocks> pitti: thanks :)
<didrocks> ok, should be descriptive enough
<pitti> didrocks: thanks!
<pitti> mvo: good morning!
<pitti> mvo: can we make another attempt at defer, or do you want me to do that?
<didrocks> pitti: Bitte SchÃ¶n (got it correctly this time? :))
<pitti> didrocks: de rien :) (was correct, except for the capitalization)
<didrocks> argh! ;)
 * didrocks will add a tomboy note "how to answer to pitti" :)
<mvo> pitti: sure, I can do it in a bit, I had hoped that glatzor would comment, but I guess its not a big deal
 * pitti tries to hammer gir-repository to build again
<didrocks> it's reluctant it seems :)
<pitti> seems that seb128 threw out the dbus bindings, but they are still needed
<rodrigo_> morning
<pitti> hey rodrigo_
<rodrigo_> hi pitti
<mvo> pitti: I pushed a updated debian/copyright to https://code.launchpad.net/~mvo/python-defer/ubuntu-natty but I can not commit a COPYRIGHT.MIT (or similar) to trunk, what do you think how this should be handled?
<pitti> mvo: the MIT/BSD license is already fully included in the source code headers
<pitti> so a separate copy isn't needed
<mvo> pitti: ok, then I think its ready for re-uploading
 * pitti hugs mvo
 * mvo hugs pitti
<pitti> mvo: btw, did you hear about the python/gnome hackfest? http://live.gnome.org/Hackfests/Python2011
<pitti> mvo: is that something you'd be interested in?
<pitti> I'd really like to go
<mvo> pitti: let me have a look
<mvo> is it known that a upgrade with non 3d (kvm) gives you desktop with nothing (no panel, no nothing) after the upgrade to natty?
<pitti> jasoncwarner: ^ I'll reply to Barry's email about the python hackfest; I just got pinged by one of the initiators, they'd like me to join
<mvo> bug #683531 - pretty unusable
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 683531 in gnome-panel (Ubuntu) "panel not there after maverick -> natty upgrade (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/683531
<mvo> pitti: hm, server is not responding, odd
<didrocks> mvo: look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NattyNarwhal/TechnicalOverview
<didrocks> no 3D or "none effect" selected?
<seb128> hello
<didrocks> hey seb128
<pitti> mvo: hm, indeed, dropped out for me as well
<seb128> sorry I'm a bit late this week
<seb128> having a start of a cold so I overslept a bit
<pitti> hey seb128
<mvo> didrocks: aha, ok. well, default
<pitti> oh, hope you feel better soon!
<seb128> thanks ;-)
<pitti> mvo: http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/tmp/hackfest.html
<pitti> ^ temporary copy
<seb128> it's already a bit better after some extra hours in bed
<didrocks> tare care seb128 :)
<seb128> just my head hurting a bit now
<mvo> didrocks: hmmmm, could we at least show a zenity dialog?
<mvo> seb128: oh? cold?
<seb128> mvo, not sure, feeling a bit dizy and head hurting a bit
<mvo> get well seb128
<seb128> pitti, why do you have that copied on your people site?
<didrocks> mvo: we discussed that with seb128 and was thinking it's good enough for alpha1â¦
<seb128> mvo, thanks ;-)
<didrocks> but seems that a lot of people is starting whinning about it :)
<mvo> well, I disagree with that, a lot of people will try it in a VM
<mvo> but *shrug*, not my call
<seb128> what is the issue?
<didrocks> seb128: the fact the gnome-panel isn't started if you are in metacity
<mvo> upgrading/running without 3d
<mvo> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-panel/+bug/683531
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 683531 in gnome-panel (Ubuntu) "panel not there after maverick -> natty upgrade (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [High,New]
<pitti> seb128: server currently doesn't respond
<pitti> mvo, seb128: ah, seems it's back up now
<seb128> pitti, oh ok, you are thinking to go there?
<didrocks> mvo: the thing is that it will be hackish and trickyâ¦ and you can have the ubuntu classic session
<pitti> seb128: I'd love to
<pitti> seb128: just sent out the reply and request
<didrocks> mvo: a workaround for alpha1 that we will remove later isn't maybe the best call, that was the conclusion
<seb128> pitti, it's a short trip for you :-)
<pitti> indeed
<seb128> didrocks, mvo: is the concern that there is no way to logout to start a GNOME session in the 2d case?
<mvo> yes, no way to logout plus no indication what is going on
<didrocks> seb128: from people bug's report, there are surprized about having an "empty desktop"
<seb128> well it's only a1...
<seb128> you can click on the ubiquity icon on the desktop to install
<seb128> starting the installed system will give you gdm where you can pick the classic session if you do vm testing
<seb128> it's a bit annoying but people trying an alpha1 should be able to deal with that?
<mvo> like I said, its not the end of the world, but I expected that we can do better. we launch compiz, right? and if that does not run then there is no way to use unity? so why not hook into that, we did that before
<didrocks> mvo: read https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-desktop/2010-November/002689.html
<didrocks> and for alpha2, we will have a new gnome-session backport with a different mecanism
<seb128> mvo, well the issue was raised last week for comments on the list but nobody came with a suggestion...
<seb128> mvo, I agree it's suboptimal but it's not an easy issue
<seb128> mvo, part of it is that fallbacking from unity to compiz is still using compiz but in different modes
<seb128> mvo, well, fallbacking to another wm is one thing, starting other components is another one...
<seb128> I guess we could display a "3d not supported, you need to logout"
<seb128> with a "logout" button on the dialog
<mvo> I'm not asking for fallback and coolness, just a zenity dialog in gnome-wm if launching compiz fails and we are in ubuntu-desktop session. is that really more than "if [ "$GDMSESSION" = "unity" ] -a [ "$WINDOW_MANAGER" = "/usr/bin/comiz" ]; then zenity --info "fail"
<mvo> (well, fail should probably have a little bit more text ;)
<mvo> I can hammer out a dirty proof of concept patch, I think the 30min it takes to write it is well spend, even if we throw it away later
<didrocks> seb128: we can run gnome-panel in that caseâ¦
<mvo> or that :)
<didrocks> that was part of my proposal, but doing that for removing it laterâ¦
<seb128> mvo, that doesn't solve the case where unity doesn't work but compiz can be used
<mvo> that is added sugar, i will be happy with just a dialog
<didrocks> and doesn't solve last case, right
<mvo> right, its not 100% solution, just 80%
<mvo> how often is it that compiz works and unity dosn't? it seems the majority of people will just have no 3d at all (vm, nvidia)
<seb128> do we still use gnome-wm?
<mvo> (at least that is the assumption I have)
<didrocks> mvo: gnomewm isn't called if people choose "none effect"
<didrocks> mvo: it's directly metacity
<seb128> we don't care about much about corner cases
<seb128> let's just make starting the iso in a vm work
<mvo> seb128++
<mvo> didrocks: hmmmmm
<seb128> didrocks, do we still use gnome-wm by default?
<seb128> I though you wanted to change that?
<didrocks> seb128: yes, by default
<seb128> ok
<seb128> mvo, go for your cheap hack ;-)
<didrocks> that's why I proposed the cheap hack yesterday :)
<mvo> what is the gdmsession name for it?
<didrocks> mvo: gnome
<mvo> ha! my hack is even more cheap than yours ,)
<seb128> lol
<mvo> thanks
<didrocks> just the dialog?
<didrocks> or gnome-panel?
<seb128> didrocks, I didn't understand that yesterday
<didrocks> seb128: oh sorry then :)
<pitti> argh, gir-repository is a mess
<seb128> didrocks, I though your fallback was not as trivial as adding 2 lines to gnome-wm
<didrocks> so, we won't handle upgradeâ¦ just new install with no 3D
<pitti> I threw three patches at it, each of which just uncovers the next build failure
<seb128> didrocks, I though you would be hacking sessions or compiz
<didrocks> seb128: well, we will have to remove that thenâ¦ but just keep that in mind
<mvo> zenity  --info --text "sorry, no 3d, your computer sucks, thnxbye"
<seb128> pitti, stop wasting time on that
<seb128> pitti, we should remove the source
<seb128> pitti, I just didn't have time to rebuild all the things build-depending on it yet
<didrocks> mvo: do you want to do it? I can do it if needed
<seb128> pitti, we have nothing in the archive which needs it
<pitti> seb128: ok, I'll rather do that then
<mvo> didrocks: lets make a deal, i give you what I have and you make it work :) its probably jsut a couple of minutes, especially if you have the test env
<seb128> pitti, all the gir it builds are unused
<didrocks> mvo: tell them to switch to the gnome-classic session
<didrocks> mvo: ok :)
<seb128> pitti, there is only some source coming from debian which build-depends on gir-repository-dev because debian didn't build the gir from gtk itself etc
<seb128> pitti, we just need to update those build-depends in ubuntu
<seb128> pitti, I started last week and got half of main done
<pitti> seb128: ok; sorry that I wasted an hour on this
<mvo> thanks seb128 and didrocks!
<seb128> mvo, didrocks: thanks ;-)
 * seb128 hugs didrocks mvo pitti
 * didrocks hugs mvo seb128 pitti :)
<mvo> didrocks: if you make it work by calling gnome panel or something crarzy, fine wiht me too
 * mvo hugs the gang didrocks pitti seb128
<didrocks> mvo: let's call gnome-panel as well and tell "hum, you should change your session as well" :)
<seb128> pitti, sorry I should have commented on the bug saying that
<pitti> no problem
<fta> pitti, hi. everywhere i have calibre/natty, i see bug 669430, do you?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 669430 in apt-xapian-index (Ubuntu) "update-apt-xapian-index crashes with "InvalidArgumentError: Term too long (> 245): XSlibdevel" (affects: 1) (heat: 10)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/669430
<didrocks> (a second, on a call)
<pitti> fta: I haven't noticed that yet; let me run it manually
<mvo> didrocks: cool, I msged you the quick hack I did in between the irc chat
<njpatel> mvo, update-apt-xapi takes 10minutes everyday at 100% cpu
<pitti> seb128: I added tasks for the remaining rdepends
<seb128> pitti, ok
<mvo> njpatel: hm, that used to be a weekly job :/
<mvo> njpatel: what machine are you using? slow/fast? netbook?
<njpatel> mvo, natty, with 2.4ghz Intel core 2, 4gb ram, Intel SSD
<fta> it's not particularly fast on a brand new quad core either
<mvo> njpatel, fta: hm, not fast, but 10min seems excessive on my (similar speced) system its more like 1min
<mvo> njpatel: are you using the latest apt in natty? we had a slow version in for a couple of days
<mvo> time (on ssd): real	0m56.247s
<mvo>  
<mvo> (for my system)
<njpatel> mvo, not sure, let me update and then I'll let you know if it still happens tomorrow :)
<njpatel> mvo, thanks
<mvo> njpatel: ok, hunt me down if the latest apt does not fix it
<mvo> eh, remind me gently I mean
<njpatel> no, hunt you down!
<seb128> pitti, I've assigned some of the tasks for this gir bugs, I will clean some of the others today
<pitti> seb128: I'm also doing a few of them right now
<seb128> pitti, ok, I will let you do those you want to do
<seb128> pitti, I got blocked for a few last week due to build issues with the new vala gir stacks
<seb128> pitti, I will pick later remaining ones if you let some ;-)
<pitti> hm, seems gir stuff is quite broken in current sid :(
<seb128> pitti, the gir version is 0.6 there
<seb128> which is ages old for gir
<pitti> I'll just fix it in Ubuntu for now
<njpatel> erm, should installing software-centre hang apt?
<seb128> they don't build the gir from sources as well
<njpatel> 18214 root      20   0  268m  84m  11m R  101  2.2   2:52.34 update-software
<seb128> so they still need to use gir-repository-dev
<seb128> pitti, you can get fixes in experimental I guess
<njpatel> oh, wait, it works!
<seb128> pitti, the gir stack is mostly uptodate there
<pitti> ah
<seb128> there = experimental
<pitti> seb128: so for libgdata I'd like to update to 0.7.0, which fixes building the GIR; it's an ABI bump, though
<pitti> seb128: is there a reason not to do it, and instead fix the gir build locally? (it's easy to do)
<seb128> oh please do it
<seb128> it was on my list of upgrade we need to do
<seb128> was -> is
<seb128> it fixes some evolution google calendar integration issues it seems
<pitti> ok, nice
<pitti> seb128: I'll upload it, but won't binNEW before alpha-1
<seb128> ok
 * pitti uses lp:ubuntu/libgdata
<fta> pitti, so, did it crash for you too?
<pitti> fta: no, apparently not
<fta> hm
<fta> mvo, any idea? bug 669430
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 669430 in apt-xapian-index (Ubuntu) "update-apt-xapian-index crashes with "InvalidArgumentError: Term too long (> 245): XSlibdevel" (affects: 1) (heat: 10)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/669430
<rodrigo_> hey seb128
<seb128> rodrigo_, hey
<rodrigo_> seb128, the version of the g-keyring package in the PPA is wrong
<seb128> rodrigo_, how so?
<rodrigo_> seb128, it should be 2.92.91.is....
<seb128> gnome-keyring 	2.92.92.is.2.91.2-0ubuntu2~build2 	Rodrigo Moya (2010-11-22)
<rodrigo_> 2.92.92.is.2.91.xxx
<seb128> rodrigo_, ?
<seb128> that's what I see on https://edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop/+archive/gnome3-builds
<rodrigo_> hmm
<rodrigo_> oh, I got confused by gnome-bluetooth
<seb128> right
<seb128> I screwed and uploaded to natty
<seb128> I fixed natty but I had to run after that
<seb128> I will fix the ppa now
<seb128> thanks for the reminder
<seb128> I will sponsor your pending updates as well
<mvo> fta: I have a look, looks like it reading the section in some funny way
<rodrigo_> no problem, and sorry for the confusion :)
<rodrigo_> g-bluetooth failed building, seems it still needs gconf
 * rodrigo_ submits a fixed branch
<seb128> rodrigo_, can you fix the version in the changelog as well? ;-)
<seb128> I will review and sponsor that
<rodrigo_> seb128, what is wrong in the version?
<seb128> rodrigo_, <rodrigo_> seb128, it should be 2.92.91.is....
<rodrigo_> ah, that was for gnome-keyring, sorry
<seb128> hum
<seb128> I'm really confused now ;-)
<seb128> which one requires gconf?
<rodrigo_> g-bluetooth
<seb128> and g-bluetooth has the buggy version as well
<seb128> so I was suggesting you could fix both issues while you are at it :p
<rodrigo_> it has the buggy version?
 * rodrigo_ looks
<seb128> that discussion becomes weird
<seb128> rodrigo_, sorry let's start that discussion again
<rodrigo_> :)
<rodrigo_> yes
<seb128> rodrigo_, did you have a version issue? you pinged about g-k but said you confused it with gnome-bt
<seb128> the gnome-bt is the ppa is older than the natty one
<seb128> since I did a 2.91...is..2.32 in natty to fix the wrong upload
<rodrigo_> right
<seb128> g-k should be ok
<rodrigo_> yes
<seb128> rodrigo_, so we need to fix gnome-bt to update the version and use gconf
<seb128> right?
<rodrigo_> update it to what, 2.91.2.is.2.91.2?
<rodrigo_> right, ok, now I get it, didn't see the version in natty
<rodrigo_> so, you uploaded the PPA one to natty?
<seb128> rodrigo_, yes
<rodrigo_> ok, so I'll call it 2.91.2.is.2.91.2-0ubuntu1
<seb128> I was in a call and cleaning at the same time and I did dput at the wrong location
<seb128> that had to happen :p
<rodrigo_> :)
<seb128> rodrigo_, g-s-d... should I wait for .1?
<seb128> "Handle rename of org.gnome.media-handling"
<seb128> rodrigo_, cosimoc fixed that and tagged a .1
<rodrigo_> yes, packaging it in a minute, so yeah, don't merge/upoload the branch
<seb128> ok
<rodrigo_> seb128, the bluetooth one -> https://code.launchpad.net/~rodrigo-moya/ubuntu/natty/gnome-bluetooth/add-missing-gconf/+merge/42343
<rodrigo_> submitting the g-s-d in a bit
<seb128> rodrigo_, thanks
<rodrigo_> seb128, g-s-d pushed also
<seb128> rodrigo_, ok
<cjwatson> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/empathy/2.32.2-0ubuntu1/+build/2061085 is failing because libebook1.2-dev doesn't depend on libcamel1.2-dev but its pkg-config file lists camel-1.2.  however, that dependency was missing in maverick too.  am I missing something?
<seb128> cjwatson, libebooks Requires: libedataserver-1.2 dbus-glib-1
<seb128> cjwatson, that's the 2.30 .pc
<didrocks> pitti: for the detection fallback, it will need a new compiz upload. I can maybe sneak the OOo fix as well. Do you think it's ok
<seb128> cjwatson, so I guess that dependency is new in 2.32
<cjwatson> seb128: ah, right
<seb128> does that need to be fixed for a1?
<seb128> ie now
<didrocks> seb128: cjwatson ^^
<seb128> or just in the next upload?
<cjwatson> so http://paste.ubuntu.com/538605/ then?
<didrocks> in that case, I'll sneak the compiz upload as well :)
<cjwatson> powerpc isn't a blocker for alpha-1, it would just be nice for me to stop getting failure mails
<seb128> cjwatson, seems fine, feel free to commit to the vcs and upload if you want
<cjwatson> didrocks: what's this upload for?
<seb128> cjwatson, ups, control.in
<seb128> cjwatson, not control ;-)
<cjwatson> there isn't a control.in
<didrocks> cjwatson: people running a fresh install without 3D acceleration got a session with metacity and no panel
<didrocks> cjwatson: this will be a temporary workaround as the correct fix with a new gnome-session will come from A2
<cjwatson> I'm OK with that
<didrocks> it will still not deal people upgrading with "metacity" set by default (they will have no panel in the "gnome" session)
<seb128> cjwatson, sorry I got confused with other pkg-gnome sources
<pitti> didrocks: sure, as long as you don't introduce ABI breaks during the A1 prep time
<seb128> cjwatson, so feel free to commit and upload if you want
<cjwatson> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/59868659/buildlog_ubuntu-natty-powerpc.ubuntuone-client_1.5.0-0ubuntu1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz is broken too, haven't investigated yet
<cjwatson> seb128: ok, will do, thanks
<seb128> cjwatson, we will probably do an upload this week anyway if you want to wait
<didrocks> pitti: the OOo fix doesn't, I checked that
<cjwatson> I'll upload it now, would be a bonus if powerpc started to work
<didrocks> and my workaround is small, just building the package and testing in vb
<didrocks> (so, just to warn again, this doesn't deal with people upgrading having a wm != gnomewm or compiz, typically those selecting "none effect" in the capplet)
<seb128> cjwatson, let me check for the ubuntuone-client issue
<cjwatson> I'm test-building it on davis now
<cjwatson> same issue I think
<cjwatson> PKG_CHECK_MODULES(NAUTILUS, [libnautilus-extension >= 2.6.0 libebook-1.2 gconf-2.0])
<cjwatson> if I install libcamel1.2-dev, that comes out with a proper GTK include path
<seb128> cjwatson, I'm wondering what was bringing gtk in
<cjwatson> the entire pkg-config command fails there
<cjwatson> (if camel-1.2.pc isn't installed)
<cjwatson> so e.g. libnautilus-extension.pc's 'Requires: ... gtk+-2.0' didn't take effect
<seb128> cjwatson, ok, the configure should stop on such errors
<seb128> seems a bug in their source as well
<cjwatson> yeah, both that and empathy
<didrocks> let's try to spawn a warning as well
<seb128> cjwatson, but isn't PKG_CHECK supposed to bail out on error?
<cjwatson> it ought to, yes, I don't know why it isn't
<cjwatson> ah, I think I see
<seb128> "the default action-if-not-fault will end the execution with an error for not having found the dependency. "
<cjwatson> it doesn't fail if pkg-config --exists works but pkg-config --cflags fails
<cjwatson> i.e. the .pc is broken (from its point of view) not merely missing
<seb128> oh, ok...
<seb128> it's a bit confusing
<seb128> cjwatson, thanks for investigating those issues ;-)
<cjwatson> no problem.  I can't fix the KDE/powerpc failures but maybe I can at least make Ubuntu work :)
<mpt> pitti, hi, how often are the burndown charts updated? Once a day?
<pitti> mpt: every two hours mostly; changes in team memberships are only updated daily, thogh
<mpt> pitti, so if one's not being updated, should I report a bug somewhere, or ask you, or something else?
<cjwatson> didrocks: let me know when you've uploaded compiz, please?
<pitti> mpt: you should ping a WI tracker developer, such as me or apw
<mpt> pitti, ok. On <https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/packageselection-foundations-n-ratings-and-reviews-in-software-center>, the first item has been INPROGRESS for about three days, but still shows up as "todo" on <http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/canonical-ux.html>.
<didrocks> cjwatson: sure, just 20 minutes, time to build + test
<didrocks> thanks :)
<pitti> mpt: (will look later, I have a long phone call in a few mins)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, did you investiage the firefox, compiz issue yet?
<seb128> chrisccoulson, do you want a bug report about it?
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - not just yet. yeah, please open a bug report about that
<seb128> chrisccoulson, on firefox or compiz?
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - on firefox for now please
<seb128> ok
<njpatel> seb128, can you still reproduce this on latest unity? https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/682769
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 682769 in unity (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "the launcher doesn't focus minimized dialogs on empty workspaces (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,New]
<njpatel> I can't seem to reproduce it at all
<seb128> didrocks doesn't get it either
<njpatel> on empty and non-empty workspaces
<njpatel> seb128, but you still do?
<seb128> not sure what is different there, I cleaned all my compiz configs
<seb128> njpatel, yes
<seb128> njpatel, well I didn't upgrade today yet
<njpatel> seb128, have you got any FPS enabled?
<seb128> but I had it yesterday
<seb128> njpatel, fps?
<njpatel> FSP
<njpatel> focus strealing prevention
<njpatel> stealing*
<njpatel> man
<seb128> hum?
<seb128> I've a stock compiz
<njpatel> I'm imagining not
<seb128> I cleaned the .compiz* and compiz* in gconf
<seb128> so whatever comes with it
<njpatel> seb128, ccsm -> General Options ->Focus & Raise Behaviour -> Focus Prevention Level
<njpatel> mine is "low"
<seb128> low
<seb128> but as said didrocks doesn't get it either
<seb128> it only does it on empty workspace
<seb128> like I'm on this workspace which has IRC
<njpatel> yeah, I tried on empty workspace
<seb128> I do ctrl-alt-right (next workspace is empty)
<seb128> xchat still had the "<" to indicate it has the focus
<njpatel> hmm, no, that's not happening here at all
<seb128> ups, I'm confusing 2 bugs now
<njpatel> the arrow goes away
<njpatel> seb128, I'm going to mark this one as incomplete
<seb128> ok
<seb128> njpatel, sorry I was speaking about https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/683134
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 683134 in unity (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "the launcher doesn't bring you to the selected applications when it's focussed on a different ws (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Medium,Triaged]
<seb128> njpatel, which is similar
<seb128> when I described the <
<seb128> njpatel, do you get this one?
<seb128> I've to run for some minutes, brb
<njpatel> seb128, nope, I don't get that one
<njpatel> seb128, I'll mark this as incomplete until you've had a chance to test latest unity
<htorque> seb128, do you have the "Desktop Wall" plugin enabled? without it there's no workspace switching to the focused application.
<seb128> htorque, sure, it's the default ws switcher
<seb128> njpatel, ok, though didrocks had it on the latest unity yesterday
<seb128> njpatel, so I doubt it's fixed
<njpatel> seb128, you said didrocks doesn't get it...
<mvo> he dosn't get it, eh?
<seb128> njpatel, he doesn't get the minimizing one
<seb128> he gets the second one I pointed though
<njpatel> okay
<njpatel> I haven't got to the second one, yet
<htorque> seb128, is the application window completely on one workspace? i can reproduce what you're seeing if there's a tiny bit of the window on the other workspace ("<" stays, click on launcher does nothing)
<njpatel> oh, yeah, that would happen because it's spanning two
<njpatel> htorque, hi, btw, thanks for the testing and the bug reports :)
<htorque> yw :)
<njpatel> htorque, do you mind if I hi-jack https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/683547 for the edge-scrolling feature?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 683547 in unity (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "Bottom launchers hard to expand with filled launcher bar (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,New]
<njpatel> (I added a comment explaining why)
<mvo> didrocks: upgraded session works fine now with the patch you suggested, thanks a lot
<htorque> njpatel, sure, no problem
<njpatel> thanks
<mvo> didrocks: I updated the bugreport as well
<seb128> htorque, yes it's one workspace
<seb128> like I run gconf-editor and put in the middle of a workspace
<seb128> ctrl-alt-left
<seb128> assuming the left one is empty
<seb128> then click on the launcher
<seb128> (which still has the <)
<seb128> that doesn't bring me to the other workspace
<didrocks> mvo: nice
<didrocks> mvo: I close another one in the changelog
<njpatel> seb128, just did that and it works fine, including the arrow
<mvo> great
 * njpatel wonders what's going on
<didrocks> mvo: just adding the zenity dialog under the right env variable as well to avoid too many "I don't have unity" bug reports
<htorque> seb128, wfm too, sorry :(
<mvo> didrocks: cool
<mvo> didrocks: great work here, that make me (and a lot of users happy, I'm sure) :)
<didrocks> mvo: nice, we will just have to think to remove it once the new gnome-session interesting commits backported + new configuration profile there
<mvo> didrocks: right, we should add it to google calendar so that it can mail you ;)
<didrocks> :)
<GunnarHj> Uploaded a revised version of the gdm package to my ppa, but it failed to build for Natty. https://launchpad.net/~gunnarhj/+archive/locale-test/+build/2071744 Someone who can look into it?
<didrocks> cjwatson: ok, sorry, my vb was really slow, I just pushed compiz 0.9.2.1+glibmainloop2-0ubuntu4 with that + some crash fixes that a lot of people seems to get
<didrocks> will change the Technical Overview as well, then
<didrocks> done
<seb128> re
<seb128> got it!
<seb128> njpatel, sorry I crashed gnome-session while trying to debug it and I figured I would rather not start and stop IRC while I was doing session testing
<seb128> njpatel, ok, it happens when nautilus is not running
<seb128> njpatel, which happens on my box due to GNOME3 library mismatches which made nautilus crash...
<seb128> didrocks, ^
<didrocks> seb128: ahah! you are not running the default :p
 * didrocks runsâ¦
<didrocks> ok, make sense now why I couldn't get it
<didrocks> weird that nautilus is impacting this though
<njpatel> seb128, you mean the arrows or raising the minimised window?
<seb128> njpatel, both
<njpatel> seb128, can you add that to the bug report and mark it new please, I'll take a look and assign to jason
<njpatel> seb128, thanks
<seb128> njpatel, thank you
<didrocks> well, even triaged if you want me to confirm
<didrocks> (not sure why people getting back from triaged to confirmed, for me triaged > confirmed as only triagers can set that state, not a big difference thoughâ¦)
<seb128> didrocks, can you try by unsetting the draw background?
<didrocks> seb128: sure, one sec, finishing marking some duplicates and get back to that
<didrocks> seb128: confirmed :)
<seb128> \o/
<didrocks> you're not alone :)
<didrocks> do you have the bug # handy?
<seb128> didrocks,
<seb128> https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/683134
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 683134 in unity (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "the launcher doesn't bring you to the selected applications when it's focussed on a different ws (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Medium,Triaged]
<didrocks> seb128: thanks, confirming
<seb128> didrocks, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/682769
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 682769 in unity (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "the launcher doesn't focus minimized dialogs on empty workspaces (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,New]
<seb128> as well
<didrocks> seb128: hum? wasn't it the minimize issue?
<didrocks> ok :)
<didrocks> for the first one, I got it with or without nautilus drawing the desktop
<seb128> ok
<mvo> pitti: jockey-gtk crashes for me on natty? know - or should I start debugging
<cyphermox> is it a known issue for compiz to segfault after a few minutes logged in?
<rodrigo_> new gnome-keyring for the gnome3 ppa -> https://code.launchpad.net/~rodrigo-moya/ubuntu/natty/gnome-keyring/2_91_3_release/+merge/42356
<rodrigo_> seahorse coming
<didrocks> cyphermox: depends on graphic card and some software issues. You can first try to upgrade to -0ubuntu4 and report a stacktracec if it's happens
<didrocks> (this version should be built/published soon)
<cyphermox> didrocks, thanks
<cyphermox> I can wait.. nothing stops me from switching to a text vt and attempt to restart it ;)
<seb128> rodrigo_, ok
<didrocks> hehe
<didrocks> seb128: btw, the other kind of crash are x damage errors, from what dbarth__ told me, it's frequent on intel and ati and nvidia didn't get them
<didrocks> seb128: I think I should start testing on intel thenâ¦
<didrocks> (that would explain why I only get few crashes a day)
<seb128> didrocks, xdamage errors sound like something which would end in an xerror
<seb128> not in a segfault
<seb128> no?
<didrocks> seb128: right, but apparently, compiz try to catch it and got confused
<didrocks> that's about the limited of my X protocole knowledge, don't get too high :)
<seb128> didrocks, I don't think it's the crashes I get
<seb128> the stacktrace has only compiz and glibmm functions
<seb128> nothing x-ish
<didrocks> seb128: ok, so this kind of crashes should be fixed by the new upload
<seb128> do you have an example of stacktrace on thos xdamage errors?
<didrocks> seb128: dbarth__ have them
<seb128> didrocks, ok great, I will let you know how it works
<didrocks> seb128: there is none in LP
<didrocks> nice :)
<mvo> pitti: pushed (trivial) fix to lp:~mvo/jockey/mvo, let me know if I should just commit directly to trunk
<seb128> mvo, that location is not valid?
<mvo> https://code.launchpad.net/~mvo/jockey/mvo
<mvo> its still crashing :) but now at a different spot
<seb128> mvo, ok, it's there now
<seb128> was maybe a launchpad being slown
<mvo> probably
<mvo> or my network a bit slow
<dbarth__> seb128: this is an example stack trace: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/538304/
<dbarth__> seb128: and here is the one i reported this morning: https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/683523
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 683523 in compiz (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "compiz crashed with SIGSEGV in CompPlugin::windowInitPlugins() (affects: 1) (heat: 8)" [High,Confirmed]
<seb128> dbarth, thanks
<seb128> hum, no retracing yet?
<seb128> let me see if those crashed
<cjwatson> didrocks: righto, thanks
<didrocks> cjwatson: you're welcome
<dbarth> seb128: do you have a new build with your fix?
<seb128> didrocks, ^ I think that was for you
<didrocks> dbarth: hum, new build for what and for which componenent? :)
<dbarth> unity?
<dbarth> compiz, sorry
<dbarth> i thought you were talking about glibmm fixes that went in
<didrocks> dbarth: well, there is the glibmm fix which is built and should be published soon
<didrocks> it will be in A1
<dbarth> ok, i'll wait for this one to upgrade my system and see if that does anything to my problems
<dbarth> there is a glibmm func in the stack, but i'm not expecting it to be the culprit
<didrocks> let's see, right
<didrocks> weird in any case that unity/compiz is strong there for the two last weeks (since the bamf issue is fixed)
<mvo> hrm, hrm, so what is it in gnome-session that sets my screen forcefully to 800x600 on nvidia?
<seb128> mvo, cat .config/monitors.xml?
<mvo> seb128: what wrote that in the first place?
<mvo> I killed it now, that helped
<mvo> thanks seb128!
<mvo> didrocks: so how to debug if unity is not starting on a nvidia upgraded system :) ?
<mvo> nautilus is there
<didrocks> mvo: compiz is there?
<pitti> mvo: re (sorry, long phone interview)
<pitti> mvo: no, I don't know
<seb128> mvo, you're welcome
<mvo> pitti: I filed (two) bugs and a branch, should be trivial the crash
<pitti> mvo: "AttributeError: 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'record'"?
<mvo> not sure about the other one
<seb128> mvo, the display capplet
<nessita> seb128: hey there! question, will ubuntuone-control-panel make it to alpha1? (https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/natty/+queue?queue_state=0&queue_text=control-panel)
<seb128> mvo, system, preferences, display
<mvo> seb128: why did it do that? I don't think I asked for this :)
<seb128> nessita, hey, no
<seb128> mvo, because you runned it?
<seb128> mvo, it's a capplet, nothing that can do anything without you opening it and changing your resolution
<mvo> didrocks: ha! compiz was it
<seb128> mvo, because it assumes that you want to keep your screen config between sessions
<pitti> mvo: seems you proposed a merge of the ubuntu branch into trunk, but I'll sort it out
<mvo> seb128: but I never set it to 800x600 :)
<didrocks> mvo: so, yeah, if you have metacity by default right now it's "no luck" until alpha2 :)
<mvo> pitti: hrm, sorry
<pitti> mvo: don't worry; thanks for the fix!
<seb128> mvo, well what was in that .xml when you cleaned it?
<didrocks> mvo: I posted a note in the technical overview
<milanbv> has somebody experienced a bug in which GDM changes users list order randomly across reboots?
<seb128> nessita, I don't think it will, that was uploaded after the freeze
<pitti> mvo: ah, did the returned exception change recently in python-apt? I've never seen that before
<pitti> mvo: and now it seems to crash everywhere
<nessita> seb128: when was the freeze?
<seb128> nessita, monday
<mvo> seb128: 800x600 was in it I *think*
<mvo> seb128: but that does not make sense, does it?
<seb128> mvo, well, you must have ran gnome-display-properties some day
<mvo> didrocks: ok, that is fine, thanks for your help
<pitti> mvo: merged and pushed, thanks! trying now
<seb128> mvo, and played with it
<didrocks> mvo: yw :)
<pitti> mvo: so you have another crash?
<mpt> mvo, hi, what was the original link for that remove vs. purge Brainstorm idea?
<mvo> seb128: ok
<nessita> seb128: ah, ok
<nessita> thanks for the info!
<seb128> nessita, no problem
<mvo> pitti: that was a side effect of the earlier one. the api changed insofar that package.candidate can be None now
<mvo> mpt: the original is http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/24963/
<pitti> mvo: ah, right; that explains why it's an attributeError now
<mpt> thanks
<mvo> no alt-f2 anymore :/
<pitti> mvo: ctrl-alt-t for the rescue
<mvo> pitti: yeah, you could test for if package.candidate, whaever style you prefer
<mvo> pitti: dosn't work for me neither
<pitti> AttributeError: 'Backend' object has no attribute 'handlers'
<pitti> mvo: ^ I now get this
<pitti> looks unrelated
<mvo> odd, I had this too
<pitti> or it's because of some local g-i hackery I've been doing, checking
<mvo> but then a couple of minutes later it went away
<pitti> mvo: ah, of course; the old backedn was still running
<pitti> (dbus service)
<mvo> pitti: yeah
<pitti> all fine now
 * pitti hugs mvo
<mvo> great
 * mvo hugs pitti
<mvo> hm, and clicking on the hud does open a nautilus window with /usr/share/applications ?
<mvo> (the thing in the left top corner)
<pitti> mvo: oh, it does for you? clicking on the icon just unhides the launcher for me
<mvo> odd
<mvo> focus-follow-mouse & global-menu is not a good fit :)
<pitti> mvo: bug 674138
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 674138 in unity ""Global" appmenu breaks sloppy focus (affects: 8) (heat: 42)" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/674138
<seb128> mvo, <mvo> hm, and clicking on the hud does open a nautilus window with /usr/share/applications ?
<seb128> mvo, that's right
<pitti> mpt: ah, we usually don't consider "inprogress" different from "todo" on the charts
<seb128> mvo, the dash is not done yet
<seb128> that's for a2
<pitti> mpt: whoever implemented this made this optional
<pitti> (since for the point of burndowns it's irrelevant)
<pitti> I'm not too fussed either way, we can just globally enable it
<mpt> pitti, I think if that was the problem, the item would be showing up as "in progress" in the table. But it's showing up as "todo" there too.
<didrocks> mvo: it's just a workaround for you to start apps :)
<pitti> mpt: right, that's what I mean
<pitti> mpt: I'd prefer if "in progress" wasn't even there on any of the charts/reports
<mvo> oki, thanks guys! I have a working unity & compiz now
<pitti> mpt: but *shrug*, I'll just remove the configurability and turn it on globall
<pitti> y
<mpt> pitti, I don't really mind either way. But if "in progress" is supposed to show up identical to "todo", the chart legend shouldn't shows it with a different color.
<mterry> TheMuso, hello!  What do I have to do to get gtk3 apps to show up in accerciser today?  I thought it would be install libatk-adaptor and at-spi2-core, but no go
<rodrigo_> seb128, not proposing this for merge, as there is no ubuntugtk3 branch -> https://code.launchpad.net/~rodrigo-moya/ubuntu/natty/seahorse/2_91_2_release
<seb128> rodrigo_, ok, I'm done with other things, catching up on GNOME
<seb128> GNOME3 now
<rodrigo_> seb128, or can you just create the branch from the ubuntu one?
<seb128> sorry for the backlogging
<seb128> rodrigo_, what do you mean?
<seb128> rodrigo_, I will get yours and push as ubuntugtk3
<rodrigo_> ah, ok
<rodrigo_> I just meant if you could just push lp:~u-desktop/seahorse/ubuntu to ubuntugtk3, so that I could propose this branch for merging into ubuntugtk3
<seb128> oh right
<seb128> will do that, that's better ;-)
<rodrigo_> but as you want
<rodrigo_> ok
<bilalakhtar> seb128: updates opened? Seahorse being updated?
<seb128> bilalakhtar, what?
<seb128> it's the gnome3 ppa
<seb128> rodrigo_, btw I pushed it
<bilalakhtar> seb128: Can I make packages for the PPA?
<rodrigo_> bilalakhtar, please :)
<seb128> if you want to
<bilalakhtar> of course I want to :)
<rodrigo_> seb128, to ubuntugtk3?
<seb128> rodrigo_, yes
<rodrigo_> seb128, ok, proposing my branch for that then
<rodrigo_> seb128, https://code.launchpad.net/~rodrigo-moya/ubuntu/natty/seahorse/2_91_2_release/+merge/42375
<seb128> rodrigo_, thanks
<rodrigo_> bilalakhtar, then, see http://people.canonical.com/~platform/desktop/versions.html and pick what you want :-)
<seb128> (hate url hanging the applications in natty)
<bilalakhtar> thanks rodrigo_
<rodrigo_> bilalakhtar, note that most modules don't have a ubuntugtk3 branch, so ask someone to push the ubuntu one to ubuntugtk3 so that you can propose merges
<bilalakhtar> rodrigo_: okay then
<seb128> rodrigo_, hum, did you build seahorse?
<rodrigo_> yes
<seb128> weird
<rodrigo_> running it also
<seb128> patching file configure.in
<seb128> Hunk #1 FAILED at 50.
<seb128> 1 out of 1 hunk FAILED -- saving rejects to file configure.in.rej
<seb128> I get this
<rodrigo_> hmm
<rodrigo_> I didn't get that
<rodrigo_> seb128, in 01_lpi.patch?
<seb128> yes
<seb128> you didn't update it
<seb128> it's still having gtk2 etc
<rodrigo_> hmm
 * rodrigo_ rebuilds
<rodrigo_> hmm, patches are not being applied here, it seems
<cdbs> lpi -> LP integration?
<rodrigo_> hmm, how so?
<rodrigo_> cdbs, yes
<seb128> rodrigo_, how do you build?
<rodrigo_> bzr bd ...
<seb128> it has a series
<rodrigo_> yes
<rodrigo_> not sure why they're not applied
<rodrigo_> hmm, maybe it needs simple-patchsys include or a build dep on quilt?
<mterry> seb128, I'm thinking I'll update anjuta and gedit in natty after alpha1, but I wanted to ask you a question about packaging re: gedit.  It now includes a private shared library, libgedit-private.so.  I've been putting it in the same package as the gedit executable.  I'm not sure yet why it's a shared library, as it (predictably) doesn't seem for outside use.  But I assume it's reasonable to stick it in the same package and not creat
<mterry> e a libgedit-private?
<rodrigo_> seb128, will look at it later, I need to go now for a while, so bbl
<seb128> mterry, I would stick it in to start
<seb128> mterry, we can still create a new binary if a need comes later on
<seb128> rodrigo_, ok
<seb128> rodrigo_, <rodrigo_> hmm, maybe it needs simple-patchsys include or a build dep on quilt?
<seb128> rodrigo_, no, it's using source v3
<seb128> which does quilt by default
<mterry> seb128, true
<seb128> doing a bzr do there does the right thing
<seb128> mterry, the new gedit is using gtk3 I guess?
<mterry> seb128, right
<seb128> mterry, is there anything which should make us be careful about it?
<mterry> seb128, I've been using it for a while, and 2.91.2 is in the PPA for testing.  I'm about to put .3 in there.  All plugins need to be rewritten.  And we'll probably want to sort theme and a11y issues as/before it drops
<seb128> like having it read settings in gsettings where we will probably not get the new g-c-c and g-s-d
<mterry> seb128, my point about using it for awhile is that it is reasonably stable on its face.  So the issues are just the plugins and general gtk3 issues like theme and a11y
<seb128> I'm rather concerned about desktop settings it might read
<mterry> seb128, I haven't noticed any such gsettings use.  Let me do a more intensive search
<seb128> thanks
<mterry> seb128, the filebrowser plugin does use external gsettings from nautilus and from desktop-gsettings
<mterry> seb128, but not the main exec
<mterry> seb128, nope, I lied.  It also uses some of those
<seb128> do we need the new gedit for the new anjuta?
<mterry> seb128, it uses lockdown and interface schemas from desktop-gsettings
<mterry> seb128, no.  they were just the two gtk3 apps I was mostly working on
<seb128> mterry, I would put gedit in the ppa for now
<seb128> I don't think locking keys are an issue
<pitti> good night everyone
<seb128> we don't have an editor for those anyway
<seb128> and the value will be migrated from gconf on update
<seb128> pitti, 'night
<dpm> hi pitti, I'm trying to see if the new maverick language packs from yesterday's export are building ok, so that we can start testing them in -proposed. I'm looking at https:/launchpad.net/~ubuntu-langpack/+archive/ppa/+packages?field.name_filter=&field.status_filter=published&field.series_filter=maverick and I can't see any pending a build. Is there any way to check out if they're building ok?
<mterry> seb128, I thought we had ported the new desktop gsettings stuff.  I remember the package hitting NEW. Is it just a question of UI (gnome-control-center?)
<pitti> dpm: you can pick any of the packages in the PPA and check if they have a recent date, and built ok
<pitti> they are all uploaded at the same time
<pitti> dpm: and I get mail if they fail to build, too (I didn't get any)
<seb128> mterry, we have gsettings-desktop-schemas in
<dpm> pitti, I can only see the ones from last week
<seb128> mterry, the issue is for things which can be edited by gnome-control-center
<kenvandine> looking at porting gwibber from gconf to gsettings... man we have some ugly code in here for our gconf settings
<mterry> seb128, ok, well, I'll only do anjuta for now
<seb128> mterry, we will probably not get the ppa updates in natty proper this cycle
<seb128> mterry, well land gedit in the ppa anyway
<seb128> mterry, the plan for now is to get GNOME3 in the ppa
<seb128> we will decide at the rally if we move that to natty or not
<mterry> aw bummer
<pitti> dpm: ah, the run on Nov 27 failed
<pitti> dpm: I have the log, will investigate tomorrow morning
<mterry> seb128, so should I bother pushing anjuta to natty, or does it not matter so much since it's universe and sorta standalone
 * pitti waves
<seb128> mterry, what is bummer? not taking GNOME3 yet?
<seb128> mterry, sorry it's not easy, but it turns out we can't take easily pieces of GNOME3 without taking everything
<seb128> mterry, and we don't think we will be able to have great GNOME3 integration in one cycle
<seb128> still lot of work upstream to do
<seb128> lot of patches to port
<seb128> things that changed and for which we need to figure what to do
<seb128> so likely lot of work, and we are not sure we will have time for that and unity
<mterry> seb128, yar, I wasn't depressed or anything about it, but it will probably exacerbate the tension over unity within GNOME
<seb128> well we do what we can in the ppa and we welcome contributions
<dpm> pitti, thanks, we'll talk about it tomorrow. Weird, according to the schedule at https://dev.launchpad.net/Translations/LanguagePackSchedule, the build should have started today, and not on the 27th
<seb128> if it's ready on time it will land in natty
<seb128> mterry, you can argue that using the ppa makes work easier
<seb128> we don't have to stop on freezes, etc
<seb128> we can get extra contributors there
<mterry> seb128, yar
<seb128> mterry, about anjuta, your call, land it in the ppa if you are unsure
<mclasen> seb128: heh, we welcome contributions too
<mterry> seb128, it's in PPA for now, no rush really
<seb128> mclasen, no discussion about that ;-)
<seb128> mclasen, I was stating that it's easier to contribute to the ubuntu-desktop ppa than to land updates in Ubuntu proper
<seb128> different acls, etc
<seb128> it's less restrictive
<seb128> so easier to get extra people having access
<seb128> mclasen, that was an ubuntu organization comment, nothing against upstream or other distros
<mclasen> I didn't take it that way, anyway
<seb128> ok ;-)
<cyphermox> seb128, could you update the topic if the versions page is now under the platform user on p.c.c?
* ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: "Welcome to #ubuntu-desktop - home of the Desktop team - http://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop/ | If you want to help out, check out https://launchpad.net/~desktop-bugs/+bugs?field.milestone%3Alist=21439 or http://people.canonical.com/~people/versions.html | For support please join #ubuntu"
* ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: "Welcome to #ubuntu-desktop - home of the Desktop team - http://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop/ | If you want to help out, check out https://launchpad.net/~desktop-bugs/+bugs?field.milestone%3Alist=21439 or http://people.canonical.com/~platform/versions.html | For support please join #ubuntu"
* ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: "Welcome to #ubuntu-desktop - home of the Desktop team - http://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop/ | If you want to help out, check out https://launchpad.net/~desktop-bugs/+bugs?field.milestone%3Alist=21439 or http://people.canonical.com/~platform/desktop/versions.html | For support please join #ubuntu"
<cyphermox> thanks :)
<seb128> ok, got it :p
<cyphermox> hehe
<seb128> cyphermox, thanks for pointing it
<seb128> cyphermox, hey, how are you btw?
<cyphermox> pretty good
<cyphermox> just hopefully finished discussing how to fix some issues in NM with mbiebl, going back to the thousands of session erros nm-applet spews out :/
<seb128> great work recently, I think you made quite some people happy ;-)
<cyphermox> seb128, ahah, i'll only be happy when it doesn't use 1G of RAM at the end of the day :)
 * mterry looks into hacking on the unity source for the first time
 * jasoncwarner likes mterry looking into hacking on the unity source...wishes him luck!
<didrocks> jasoncwarner: mterry: that's quite easy for the preferences settings :)
<didrocks> and for the basic compiz stuff
<didrocks> then, came nux
<didrocks> and that's where it becomes horrible :)
<seb128> mterry, is the workspace switcher a workspace "switcher"?
<seb128> or is it an expose mode where you might want to dnd things around?
<didrocks> mterry: if I remember, left click is what you look for
<didrocks> mterry: in any case, it's the compiz wall plugin you want hack in
<didrocks> not unity
<and471> mpt, <kvalo> hi. you asked about wifi signal yesterday
<and471> <kvalo> the values can be between 0 and 100
<and471> <kvalo> so yes, value 100 is very well possible
<mpt> so it can't be greater than 100
<and471> yup
<mpt> Hm, I still don't think we need the background or border :-)
<and471> mpt, if you pull my branch, I have added in the signal indicator stuff
<and471> it needs a bit of polish but it is working
<mpt> nice
<and471> :)
<and471> mpt: I am just worried of a situation like http://imagebin.org/125630 where there are similar signal strengths
<and471> mpt, without the background bar there isn't enough context in my mind
<and471> whereas with it: http://imagebin.org/125631
<and471> mpt, I know this is not a common situation but it highlights my point
<mpt> and471, do you think that the background bar makes it easier to see which of those three is strongest?
<and471> mpt, well they are actually all the same, I rigged them :)
<mpt> They look the same to me either way
<mpt> uh-huh
<mpt> So, what do you mean by context?
<and471> mpt, what I think it does is show what they represent better
<and471> i.e. what it could be, what is is, how good it is compared to what it could be
<mpt> You mean, shows that they're gauges, as opposed to odd blobs?
<and471> mpt, yes almost, but I also feel with the background it conveys more information, which I feel would eb useful for the user
<mpt> and471, http://images.google.com/images?q=equalizer
<mpt> Hardly any of them show where the maximum is, but it's obvious that they're gauges, because of the ||||||||| pattern they use.
<and471> mpt, I appreciate your point, however i feel that is different, as there is more than one bar and they are constantly changing
<and471> the user can work out the maximum and other information due to the other bars and the change in height
<and471> whereas our gauge is static
<mpt> Here, it's from the column width.
<mpt> but, meh
<mpt> minor point
<mpt> I was thinking about how to present proxies
<mpt> and thinking of some extension of the current Gnome location menu in the proxy settings window
<and471> mpt, hehe, I think we will need more input from other on this point of gauges :)
<and471> mpt, ok
<mpt> but not sure entirely how to do it yet
<and471> well I have no clue either :)
<and471> tho I don't use a proxy server
<mpt> A proxy for just one particular network is easy
<mpt> Proxy for: [ This connection          :^]
<and471> yeah
<mpt> A proxy for all connections that don't have specific proxies is easy
<mpt> Proxy for: [ All other connections          :^]
<and471> mpt, yeah it is when you have those two data sources, per device and per location
<mpt> The hard part is how to share a proxy across, for example, Ethernet and wi-fi connections at an office, but not other places
<and471> it is hard to get them to combine well
<and471> mpt, well have fun thinking about that, I have to go now :)
<and471> mpt, see ya (I know you'll think of something good) :D
<mpt> likewise
<mterry> seb128, the switcher is a switcher in my mind.  But surely we can tell between a drag and a click and support both.  I just don't see the point in preferring the ability to adjust the z-order of windows to actually switching
<seb128> mterry, you have a point, I've been confused as well by having to double click
<seb128> I was just wondering if some of things you can do in the overview mode wouldn't work in the simple click case
<seb128> and if we care
<mterry> seb128, yar
<seb128> if it activates on click release I guess you can still do dnd etc
<seb128> so it should be fine for both usecase
<bcurtiswx> seb128, BGO bug 636232 is my nautilus crash, FYI.  it's been upped to critical, so i'm assuming they didn't know about it until today
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 636232 in xserver-xorg-input-synaptics (Ubuntu) "Touchpad appears as ImPS/2 Logitech Wheel Mouse (affects: 1) (heat: 49)" [Low,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/636232
<bcurtiswx> gnome bug 636232
<ubot2> Gnome bug 636232 in general "Nautilus crashes with SIGSEGV in nautilus_window_get_preferred_width" [Critical,Unconfirmed] http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=636232
<bcurtiswx> did I kill seb128 again ?
<mterry> w00t first unity patch
<highvoltage> hi! is there a good reason for ubuntu-desktop to depend on unity?
<highvoltage> as apposed to recommending it?
<highvoltage> unity needs to be optional in edubuntu, and that gets tricky when edubuntu-desktop depends on ubuntu-desktop in natty
<mterry> TheMuso, ping about at-spi for gtk3
<ari-tczew> omg... new gnome style is horrible!
<highvoltage> ari-tczew: I guess whatever you're seeing is probably just unthemed
<ari-tczew> highvoltage: dunno. just upgraded all packages (since a couple of days my natty was outdated). I'd like to back into 2 panels ;(
<ari-tczew> I'm lost at the gnome
<bcurtiswx> anyone know if not having nautilus-sendto would cause nautilus to crash ?
<highvoltage> ari-tczew: yeah there's quite a lot of transition going on atm
<ari-tczew> highvoltage: I hope that it will be better soon. if it's a final result, Ubuntu users could leave using linux!
<cyphermox> bbl
<highvoltage> ari-tczew: it's a bunch of big transitions (involving compiz, gnome and unity) during an early alpha, I don't think anyone rational would expect it to be anything resembling a final product :)
<ari-tczew> highvoltage: I have to reconsider back to maverick.
<highvoltage> ari-tczew: I made that mistake too and re-installed last night
<ari-tczew> highvoltage: mistake?
<TheMuso> mterry: Just ask your question and I will respond when I am around.
<TheMuso> mterry: But I am here now, so shoot.
<highvoltage> ari-tczew: dist-upgrading before checking the state of things
<mterry> TheMuso, I asked it this morning (my time), was just pinging (apparently uselessly :)) again.   "TheMuso, hello!  What do I have to do to get gtk3 apps to show up in accerciser today?  I thought it would be install libatk-adaptor and at-spi2-core, but no go"
<TheMuso> mterry: Sorry just saw that in my away log. Yes you need at-spi v2, and you also have to make sure at-spi v2 is the version used, by setting a gconf key. Let me grab the key you need, and things should just work once you are running the new stack.
<TheMuso> mterry:
<TheMuso> /desktop/gnome/interface/at-spi-dbusmt/desktop/gnome/interface/at-spi-dbus
<TheMuso> gah
<TheMuso> mterry: /desktop/gnome/interface/at-spi-dbus
<TheMuso> that is the gconf key you need to set. You then need to log out and back in again.
<mterry> TheMuso, awesome, will try.  Thanks!
<TheMuso> np
<TheMuso> When we move to at-spi over dbus exclusively, this will no longer be needed, but this allows both stacks to co-exist.
<mterry> gotcha
<TheMuso> ~/c
<mterry> TheMuso, it seems python-pyatspi2 (which accerciser now needs) is missing a dependency on python-xlib
<Sarvatt> can anyone tell me what should be in /desktop/gnome/session/required_components/panel for a unity session?  i'm stuck with " breaking things
<mterry> mterry, but worked besides that.  Thanks!
<TheMuso> mterry: Hrm I thought I fixed that...
<james_w> Sarvatt, I have '' on maverick
<htorque> Sarvatt, it's the same here
<htorque> but compiz/unity works for me
<TheMuso> mterry: Seems not...
<Sarvatt> hmm
<Sarvatt> I get this after the latest round of updates today, compiz doesn't even try to start http://pastebin.com/m1cAUkMg
<TheMuso> mterry: mterry So install it for now and see if that helps.
<TheMuso> gah my typing si already sucking today, and its the morning.
<mterry> TheMuso, yeah, I did install and it works
<TheMuso> Ok, will fix pyatspi then.
<Sarvatt> ah maybe it was the /desktop/gnome/session/required_components/windowmanager being metacity screwing it up
<mterry> TheMuso, I got several tracebacks from pyatspi2 though when running accerciser if you're interested.  An AttributeError and a ValueError
<Sarvatt> yep that was the problem, thanks guys
<htorque> Sarvatt, i have windowmanager = compiz and /desktop/gnome/session/required_components_list does not contain panel
<TheMuso> mterry: Upstrea would be interested.
<TheMuso> upstream
<TheMuso> I don't know pyatspi internals myself, so would only be forwarding straight upstream.
<mterry> OK
<rickspencer3> hey all
<rickspencer3> so it seems that perhaps the current image that we wanted to release tomorrow for A1 may not be working for folks
<rickspencer3> mterry, TheMuso, bryceh, who ever is around
<mterry> rickspencer3, hiyo
<rickspencer3> could I ask you guys to create an image and see if it runs?
<rickspencer3> join #ubuntu-testing and report the results
<rickspencer3> ?
<mterry> rickspencer3, OK
<vish> rickspencer3: from today's iso, it seems like Bug 683840 â¦
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 683840 in compiz (Ubuntu) "compiz crashed with SIGSEGV in nux::ResourceData::GetResourceIndex() (affects: 3) (dups: 3) (heat: 34)" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/683840
<vish> or maybe you are mentioning a whole new different bug.. :)
<rickspencer3> vish, I dunno
<mterry> rickspencer3, we're talking Desktop image 20101201.1 ?
<rickspencer3> mterry, I believe so, yes
<TheMuso> Sure.
 * TheMuso goes and downloads.
<bryceh> rickspencer3, sorry I'm patch pilot today
<rickspencer3> bryceh, ack
<rickspencer3> bryceh, good call, btw
<rickspencer3> the correct response!
<rickspencer3> :)
<bryceh> :-)
<htorque> bug 683840 looks like bug 682345
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 683840 in compiz (Ubuntu) "compiz crashed with SIGSEGV in nux::ResourceData::GetResourceIndex() (affects: 3) (dups: 3) (heat: 34)" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/683840
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 682345 in unity (Ubuntu) (and 3 other projects) "SEGSEGV in nux::ResourceData::GetResourceIndex() const () (affects: 2) (heat: 12)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/682345
<vish> htorque: how did you identify which were the missing .desktop files?
<htorque> vish, http://launchpadlibrarian.net/59743520/console.log
<vish> ah ha!
<ari-tczew> wrrrrrrrrrrrrrr, kadu doesn't work on latest gnome
<htorque> vish, i see this in those apport bugs: ** (<unknown>:3469): WARNING **: Unable to load GDesktopAppInfo for 'ubuntuone-control-panel-gtk.desktop'
<htorque> so this would cause the segfault in the live cd, once installed you'd probably see the same with this entry and i guess also ubiquity-gtkui.desktop
<vish> htorque: where did you add the files?
<Sarvatt> oddly I have no segfault with those two warnings http://pastebin.com/t9CdZspX
<htorque> oh
<htorque> vish, i did not add them, i removed them from the launcher's favorites list (using gsettings)
<htorque> vish, 'gsettings get com.canonical.Unity.Launcher favorites' to get the current list
<htorque> vish, 'gsettings set com.canonical.Unity.Launcher favorites "['a', 'b', 'c']"' to write
<vish> yea.. just having a look at it..
<seb128> htorque, does that fix it?
<htorque> it fixes it on my installation, not sure about the iso
<htorque> alex launi confirmed it in bug 682345
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 682345 in unity (Ubuntu) (and 3 other projects) "SEGSEGV in nux::ResourceData::GetResourceIndex() const () (affects: 5) (dups: 4) (heat: 48)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/682345
<vish> that's lamalex
<seb128> htorque, ok, thanks
<htorque> vish, thanks :)
<htorque> but it's odd that Sarvatt doesn't get the crash with those messages :-/
<Sarvatt> ['ubiquity-gtkui.desktop', 'nautilus.desktop', 'firefox.desktop', 'ubuntuone-control-panel-gtk.desktop', 'tomboy.desktop', 'gnome-terminal.desktop', 'evolution.desktop', 'cheese.desktop', 'pidgin.desktop', 'yelp.desktop']
<vish> nope.. removing them does *not* fix the issue..
<vish> i removed the 2 mentioned in the bug..
<Sarvatt> turns out its the '/home/ubuntu/Desktop/examples.desktop' on the livecd for vish
<Sarvatt> (sorry, discussion was split between two channels)
<seb128> Sarvatt, other people on #ubuntu-testing get it fixed by removing the 'ubuntuone-control-panel-gtk.desktop' entry
<Sarvatt> would it matter that his examples entry didn't have a space in front of it? <vish>  ['ubiquity-gtkui.desktop', 'nautilus.desktop', 'firefox.desktop', 'ubuntuone-control-panel-gtk.desktop', 'tomboy.desktop','/home/ubuntu/Desktop/examples.desktop']
 * Sarvatt is clueless about it
<vish> Sarvatt: i typed it in xchat.. so i might have missed a space :)
<vish> the AOA is a separate lappy..
<Amaranth> well dang
<Amaranth> unity and nux crash bugs are going to go to compiz
<seb128> easy to fix
<seb128> we can make a "if crash is in unity.so report on unity"
<seb128> tweak apport to be clever on the stacktrace
<seb128> we do that for nautilus for example
<seb128> if it crashes in something in /usr/lib/nautilus it assign to the corresponding source
<Amaranth> Although with the current setup the unity folks have to look through compiz bugs so it's not all bad
<seb128> right
<seb128> we can still do better with apport
<Amaranth> wow, 12MB of stacktrace
<Amaranth> my browser is crying
<Amaranth> nux seems to be carrying static color data around everywhere, that seems bad
<Amaranth> IndianRed, Salmon, etc
<Amaranth> Either that or gdb isn't reading things correctly
<Amaranth> considering the message about stack corruption that seems likely
<vish> ! yay.. nm applet's been ported to indicator!
<ubot2> vish: Error: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<vish> silly stupid bot's been bothering me all day today.. :/
<Sarvatt> RAOF: did you see https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libdrm/+bug/683361 ? not sure if you were hitting that on r600
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 683361 in mesa (Ubuntu Natty) (and 3 other projects) "compiz crashed with SIGSEGV in radeon_bo_get_tiling() (affects: 1) (heat: 10)" [Medium,Triaged]
<RAOF> Sarvatt: No, that's not what I'm hitting.
<RAOF> I'm hitting a SIGSEGV in the mipmapping bug on edgers (because I'm testing on cedar)
<RAOF> But that bug also happens on edgers on r700, so...
<Sarvatt> there is also http://cgit.freedesktop.org/mesa/mesa/commit/?h=7.9&id=773e8fadc8b19aaba5d13f75ac5810badb3968c4
<Sarvatt> ah on edgers too? gotcha
<RAOF> Right.
 * Amaranth throws random things at launchpad
<RAOF> Because we'll be switching to mesa 7.10, I might as well test it and fix what I can there :)
<Sarvatt> RAOF: are you getting [drm:radeon_cs_ioctl] *ERROR* Invalid command stream ! in dmesg when it happens?
<RAOF> No.
<RAOF> It's trying to dereference a null pointer.
<Amaranth> I've now spent 10 minutes trying to get launchpad to let me do what should be a 30 second process
<seb128> which is?
<seb128> robert_ancell, hey
<robert_ancell> seb128, hello
<seb128> robert_ancell, how are you?
<Amaranth> It finally let me sign in!
<robert_ancell> seb128, good
<Amaranth> I was trying to mark a bug as a dupe
<Amaranth> We got a bit flooded with compiz bugs today :/
<seb128> that's only the start with unity using it ;-)
<seb128> robert_ancell, I noticed you changed shotwell to use vala 0.10...
<robert_ancell> seb128, yes
<seb128> robert_ancell, is that a temporary hack?
<seb128> robert_ancell, you are abusing a soyuz bug there in some way :p
<robert_ancell> seb128, well, it didn't build anymore, and the patch required to make it work with 0.12 is non-trivial
<seb128> ok
<seb128> I was wondering if replace vala-0.10 with the new one was the best thing to do
<seb128> rather than adding a new source
<robert_ancell> but it's something I'll need to take up with upstream, as we can't keep using 0.10 indefinitely
<seb128> since the 2 versions can be installed together
<seb128> 0.10 binaries should not be available in the archive since nothing build those
<robert_ancell> yes, we should have two source, I didn't think of that at the time
<seb128> ok
<seb128> I will check with slomo what he does for debian
<robert_ancell> though, the issue is the other libraries, as they only install one .vapi file - so they're all installing them into 0.12 atm
<seb128> so we can maybe get back on sync with sources naming
<robert_ancell> Ideally we'd just like to drop 0.10 and forget about it...
<seb128> robert_ancell, if any source does that it should be fixed
<Amaranth> "Application error.  Unauthenticated user POSTing to page that requires authentication."
<Amaranth> Screw you Launchpad. Go die in a fire.
<seb128> robert_ancell, vapi should be installed in the non versioned dir
<robert_ancell> seb128, but what is the correct behaviour?  Libraries are not going to support two versions of vala
 * Amaranth gives up on it
<robert_ancell> seb128, and what if they use a feature that's not available in the old version?
<seb128> robert_ancell, ok, in this case they should be in the new version
<seb128> but we don't have many in this case now
<seb128> do we have any out of vala itself?
<Amaranth> This would be much simpler if libraries shipped their own vapi
<robert_ancell> Amaranth, they do, but they're built using vapigen normally.  So they may be dependant on a certain version of vala
<robert_ancell> seb128, hmm, I see gexiv2 and lightdm on my system
<robert_ancell> I think there's something else - where is the policy that says they should be in the unversioned location?
<seb128> robert_ancell, ok, one is for shotwell and the other one is yours ;-)
<seb128> robert_ancell, dunno if there is a policy
<robert_ancell> seb128, I have a feeling there are some others (which I would have done), but I can't remember
<seb128> we had the discussion on the IRC channel when they did the versioning last cycle
<seb128> robert_ancell, we did undo a bunch of those you moved
<seb128> like dee
<robert_ancell> Amaranth, but yes, it would be nice to get rid of the ones that valac provides
<seb128> on the upstream #vala channel I mean
<robert_ancell> seb128, ah, that would be it - you should have told me off!
<seb128> upstream said that everything should be in the non versioned dir if there is not a strong reason to version it
<robert_ancell> ok, I'll fix my stuff
<seb128> robert_ancell, sorry, one of those things that slept through because we don't overlap much
<seb128> robert_ancell, like I wanted to tell you off for dropping a symbol from gtk .symbol and uploading ;-)
<seb128> robert_ancell, never drop a symbol, it's an abi break ;-)
<robert_ancell> seb128, oh, that's ok with gtk+3 right though?
<robert_ancell> yeah, my bad with gtk2 (or was it glib?)
<seb128> robert_ancell, gtk 2.23
<seb128> the buggy version which was rolled from a wrong git
<robert_ancell> yay, I can finally remove stuff from the unity dock (or whatever it's called)
<seb128> robert_ancell, can you backport http://paste.ubuntu.com/538831/?
<seb128> ups
<seb128> bug #682345
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 682345 in unity (Ubuntu) (and 3 other projects) "SEGSEGV in nux::ResourceData::GetResourceIndex() const () (affects: 8) (dups: 4) (heat: 60)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/682345
<seb128> robert_ancell, ^
<seb128> the fix I mentioned there
<seb128> robert_ancell, I'm on a maverick laptop and can't do the update
 * robert_ancell reading
<seb128> robert_ancell, it's just the current revision to merge and upload
<seb128> it's a fix for an a1 crasher
<seb128> the unity code import the examples .desktop from nautilus
<robert_ancell> seb128, so this is just a standard "apply patch and make a new release for natty"?
<seb128> robert_ancell, apply and upload
<seb128> we can sort if with didrocks tomorrow
<robert_ancell> ok
<seb128> if ->it
<seb128> the vcs part
<seb128> or merge in lp:~unity-team/unity/packaging
<seb128> if you want to do it properly
<seb128> though I guess you are not in the team for that
<seb128> cyphermox, wb
<seb128> cyphermox, robert_ancell is handling the update since he's around and has upload rights
<robert_ancell> looks pretty safe
<skaet_> and lets us know in #ubuntu-release that its ready to have a buuild started...
<seb128> robert_ancell, cyphermox confirmed the fix
<seb128> skaet_, will do
<cyphermox> seb128, cool
<robert_ancell> seb128, is unity packaging in bzr somewhere?
<TheMuso> yes it is.
<seb128> robert_ancell, cf what I just wrote
<skaet_> seb128, robert_ancell - thanks!
<TheMuso> ...or not
<TheMuso> debcheckout doesn't show anything.
<robert_ancell> seb128, oh, they have no Vcs-Bzr link, I'll fix that too
<seb128> robert_ancell, don't
<robert_ancell> ?
<seb128> robert_ancell, it's pending being move to lp:ubuntu/unity
<seb128> it's just a matter of having didrocks to catch james_w about it
<robert_ancell> then they can update the link when they do that...
<seb128> ok
<cyphermox> robert_ancell, if you need testing once it's uploaded I'll be happy to help, but i may be offline for a few hours soon.
<seb128> let's get testing with the iso once it's uploaded
<seb128> there is also mterry who said he would be back and can test
<robert_ancell> cyphermox, cheers, should be uploaded soon
<cyphermox> seb128, yeah, I meant I'd get back to the iso I have burned, then upgrade
<seb128> cyphermox, ok
 * robert_ancell building...
<chrisccoulson> hmmm, my washing machine has just died!
<TheMuso> chrisccoulson: that sucks.
<chrisccoulson> it went bang a couple of times and then popped the 15A breaker under the stairs
<chrisccoulson> made me jump!
<TheMuso> I'll bet.
<jcastro> hey, did you guys notice shotwell also has an eog-esque picture viewer?
<robert_ancell> jcastro, yup
 * robert_ancell logs out to check new unity....
<rickspencer3> seb128, so it seems you guys got Alpha 1 all in order
 * rickspencer3 knocks wood
<seb128> rickspencer3, well let's hope
<seb128> the patch is a workaround but that will do
<rickspencer3> what's the hope factor?
<seb128> well the crash issue is fixed
<seb128> not sure what other issues unity has
<rickspencer3> you patched Unity to work around a compiz crasher?
<seb128> but it should be enough to get it as stable as it is for people running it
<seb128> rickspencer3, no, it's an unity crasher
 * rickspencer3 crosses fingers
<seb128> rickspencer3, it has migration code to import favorite launchers
<seb128> rickspencer3, it does import the examples.desktop icon from the livecd
<rickspencer3> aha
<rickspencer3> so it's livecd only
<seb128> but it doesn't like it since it's not a software
<seb128> seems nobody tested added a non application desktop before ;-)
<seb128> rickspencer3, yes
<rickspencer3> I'll be happy to test the live cd later tonight
<seb128> ok great
<seb128> I will be to bed before livecd respins are done
<cyphermox> I'm not certain it's livecd only...
 * rickspencer3 join #ubuntu-release
<rickspencer3> haha
<seb128> cyphermox, why?
<cyphermox> anybody who didn't remove examples.desktop would get it, no?
<robert_ancell> seems to work...
<seb128> cyphermox, examples.desktop is not in the default list
<seb128> cyphermox, it's just imported from the livecd user
<robert_ancell> seb128, cyphermox, any special testing I should do before uploading?
<cyphermox> heh, I thought it was always installed after install
<seb128> unity imports the .desktop from the user config to build the launcher
<cyphermox> (or used to be)
<seb128> on the desktop?
<seb128> or in the user dir?
<seb128> I though it was in the user dir
<cyphermox> I can't recall
<seb128> robert_ancell, no
<cyphermox> I always remove it ;)
<seb128> robert_ancell, it's a trivial fix, just upload ;-)
<robert_ancell> famous last words :)
<rickspencer3> oh man, how many times have I heard that!
 * rickspencer3 cries
<cyphermox> heheh
<seb128> robert_ancell, well if you want to test the bug add a .desktop which is not a software to your launcher
<robert_ancell> the +junk in the url for lp bzr branches makes my software feel useless :(
<seb128> robert_ancell, http://paste.ubuntu.com/538831/?
<seb128> robert_ancell, you can try to add that to the launcher
<cyphermox> seb128, you are right, it would be in the user's directory, not on the desktop, from what I can tell from /etc/skel/
<seb128> the list of launchers is in gsettings
<seb128> just create a .desktop with it
<seb128> cyphermox, ok, great, in any case the fix should work on the installed system as well
<cyphermox> right
<cyphermox> o
<robert_ancell> seb128, how do I add to the launcher?
<htorque> seb128, i'm still not sure how i fixed it on my installation by removing the missing .desktop entries from the launcher list - that alone doesn't seem to be a problem (eg. i removed the examples.desktop in the live session and it worked fine)
<cyphermox> robert_ancell, btw, you can test it by putting the file from /etc/skel  on the desktop
<seb128> robert_ancell, com.canonical.Unity.Launcher
<seb128> robert_ancell, in gsettings
<seb128> there is a launcher list
<cyphermox> gsettings set com.canonical.Unity.Launcher favorites whatever
<seb128> just add the /tmp/examples.desktop or something
<seb128> htorque, no sure but we can investigate that tomorrow with the unity guys
<robert_ancell> cyphermox, then restart?
<cyphermox> huh yeah, it seems unity knows about favorites but doesn't apply the changes ;)
<cyphermox> restart compiz
<seb128> don't copy the .desktop only
<seb128> the migration happens only once
<seb128> or import
<seb128> you need to add it manually in the list
<seb128> robert_ancell, compiz --replace
<seb128> robert_ancell, that should give you an empty launcher (no icon or text in it)
<seb128> but not crash
<robert_ancell> I get ** (<unknown>:2507): WARNING **: Unable to load GDesktopAppInfo for 'examples.desktop'
<robert_ancell> but no crash
<seb128> hum
<seb128> what did you add to the list?
<seb128> you need to path
<seb128> or it needs to be in the xdg data dir
<seb128> like /tmp/examples.desktop
<robert_ancell> examples.desktop but it doesn't exist
<seb128> it seems it just doesn't find the desktop in your case
<seb128> right
<robert_ancell> test
<seb128> create a examples.desktop with the pastebin from before
<robert_ancell> /tmp is a data dir?
<seb128> no, but either you specify the path
<seb128> or you put it in xdg_data_dir
<seb128> your choice
<seb128> I would just create a /tmp/examples.desktop
<seb128> then add '/tmp/examples.desktop' to the gsettings list
<robert_ancell> ok did that - black icon, no crash
<seb128> ok great
<seb128> it was crashing before the update ;-)
<seb128> you can install --reinstall unity/natty
<seb128> if you want to confirm the crash
<seb128> but confirming the fix should be enough
<seb128> let's upload
<seb128> so release people can start handling the build and iso respin
<robert_ancell> it's uploaded
<seb128> thanks
<robert_ancell> hmm, lp doesn't allow me to do a merge request into that branch though
<cyphermox> ok, I'll boot back into live and wait for it to be built
<htorque> seb128, ah, i know - it seems the migration thing has been run on my system as the 'favorite-migration' value was set - that probably added a non-app .desktop which i later overwrote by setting a new launcher list
<robert_ancell> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/3.2.2-0ubuntu2
<seb128> robert_ancell, which one?
<seb128> robert_ancell,
<cyphermox> wow, already done
<seb128>   * debian/source:
<seb128>     - Use source version 3.0
<seb128> robert_ancell, didrocks will kill you :p
<cyphermox> hahha
<robert_ancell> seb128, I did a bzr pull on lp:~unity-team/unity/packaging, pushed to +junk, then tried to merge request from lp
<seb128> robert_ancell, you can push to ~user/unity/fix
<robert_ancell> seb128, heh, it didn't have a patch system, and I didn't want to muck around with debian/rules
<seb128> robert_ancell, you should have applied it inline
<seb128> robert_ancell, well the way they do is to bzr merge -c <revision>
<htorque> seb128, yep that's it, I re-ran the migration script and compiz crashes again (with a link type .desktop file from my home dir in the list) - case closed :)
<seb128> robert_ancell, so it's transparent
<seb128> robert_ancell, bzr will know the fix is a merged revision and just handle it at the next update
<seb128> htorque, ok, great
<htorque> sorry for the noise
<seb128> no worry
<seb128> thanks for helping getting it fixed
<seb128> robert_ancell, sourve v3 doesn't play nice with source in a vcs
<robert_ancell> seb128, oh, really?
<seb128> robert_ancell, but no worry, I was joking, I'm just sure didrocks will drop it
<seb128> robert_ancell, yeah because it applies the patches when unpacking
<seb128> robert_ancell, which the vcs doesn't like
<robert_ancell> oh, that makes sense
<seb128> so the normal way for unity is
<seb128> bzr pull
<seb128> bzr merge -c
<seb128> and be done
<seb128> robert_ancell, what error do you get when you try doing a merge request?
<robert_ancell> what's the arg to -c
<seb128> rev_number
<seb128> it's to merge one revision
<seb128> or -r if you want to merge trunk up to a revision
<robert_ancell> it was something about the branch not being compatible, I suspect it wasn't stacking
<seb128> well usually then
<seb128> bzr pull lp:~unity-team/unity/packaging
<seb128> cd packaging
<seb128> bzr merge lp:~user/unity/yourfix (-c rev)
<seb128> or lp:unity if it's from trunk
<seb128> commit, be done
<seb128> the next merge-upstream from a tarball will just know it was a trunk revision and not even ask about it
<seb128> no patch to add or remove
<robert_ancell> seb128, oh, so they will pull my changes in?
<seb128> robert_ancell, "they"?
<robert_ancell> the unity team
<seb128> no, I explained how usually didrocks would backport a fix
<seb128> without using source v3 or patch systems
<seb128> I guess didrocks will manually import you changelog entry, ignore the source v3 and patches and do merge the upstream commit
<robert_ancell> We're talking about two merges here - one pulling from the unity-team packaging branch a change from another branch, the other, requesting the released changes (i.e. the debian/changelog) are pushed back to that branch
<robert_ancell> right, I get you now
<seb128> well ideally you would request a merge request from lp:~robert-ancell/unity/bugfix to lp:~unity-team/unity/packaging
<seb128> but if you say launchpad doesn't like it don't bother much
<seb128> either drop an email to didrocks or catch him on IRC tomorrow
<seb128> I think he starts early enough that you guys overlap a bit
<cyphermox> things are looking good from my end -- downloaded and installed the .debs directly.
<seb128> great
<bcurtiswx> more going into desktop PPA ?
<seb128> bcurtiswx, what?
<seb128> robert_ancell, ok, thanks for helping on the unity upload
<seb128> time to go to bed here
 * cyphermox logs off for a while
<seb128> bye
<cyphermox> ciao seb128
<bcurtiswx> seb128, j/w if there were changes going to the desktop gnome 3 ppa right now.. just anxious to get nautilus not crashing.. upstream made my bug report critical, im assuming its not known yet
<bcurtiswx> good night seb128 :)
<seb128> ok
<seb128> dunno about upstream nautilus
<seb128> it's the setting status they give to crash issues
<seb128> you can try to check on #nautilus on irc.gnome.org
<bcurtiswx> ah, well.  i've seen people using nautilus on unity
<seb128> though now is probably not the perfect time for that
<seb128> you can probably go back to the natty version
<seb128> rather than the ppa one
<seb128> that should work
<bcurtiswx> well, i type sudo apt-get install nautilus/natty, and it doesn't change anything
<seb128> you need to downgrade the library as well
<seb128> but I'm off for today
<bcurtiswx> easy way to go about that?
<seb128> use synaptic?
<bcurtiswx> yuppers, nite seb128
#ubuntu-desktop 2010-12-02
<fagan> hmmmm what package do I report the new notification area thing against?
<rickspencer3> fagan, what's the bug?
<fagan> we talked about a few things on the ayatana mailing list a few months back and we thought it would be good to remove the vpn item from that
<rickspencer3> fagan, I would suggest just logging it against Unity, then let them assign it to the correct package
<fagan> cool
<lifeless> whats the right place to seek assistance with a 3g modem issue
<fagan> lifeless: thats a good question
<fagan> it depends on what kind of issue it is really
<lifeless> fagan: vodafone prepay modem, bought today, k3571-Z
<lifeless> reports 'error code 3: no carrier' when attempting to connect
<lifeless> debug trace shows that its getting NO CARRIER in response to ATD*99***2# (or something like that - and that that is referencing the right APN in the APN array on the sim/modem)
<fagan> interesting
<lifeless> I don't know enough to guess if this is a provider issue, interaction-with-phone-issue, bug, or what have you.
<fagan> hmmmm well id say the best person to ask would be the maintainer of that package
 * fagan checks 
<fagan> Bhavani Shankar maintains it in ubuntu
<fagan> he could point you to the upstream and they can help
<fagan> we dont maintain that list in ubuntu so I dont think anyone around here would know about it
<ajmitch> lifeless: I think some people discussed this on the ubuntu-nz list awhile back
<lifeless> ajmitch: linky link?
<ajmitch> looking for it, otherwise someone in #ubuntu-nz might know better
<ajmitch> sigh, can't find it now
<ajmitch> best I can find is http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/archive/1569910 talking about needing to use usb-modeswitch
<lifeless> ajmitch: its detected
<lifeless> mm chats with it happily
<lifeless> fagan: do you know their irc nick?
<fagan> lifeless: on launchpad it says coolbhavi
<fagan> but if I remember right he goes between that and bhavi
<fagan> id say the best chance is to email him bhavi@ubuntu.com
<james_w> lifeless, cyphermox might be able to help you debug, he's one of the Ubuntu NM maintainers
<james_w> lifeless, will likely be your AM when you are next both on though
<ajmitch> so confusing seeing NM & AM together & not have them refer to debian
<fagan> yeah the entire thing is confusing in terms of ownership I think
<rickspencer3> lifeless, not confusing on the desktop
<rickspencer3> it is definetly cyphermox !
<fta> hm, got 2 regressions after today's upgrade. 1/ when starting with metacity, there's no panel anymore. 2/ when using a launcher on the panel, the app appears on workspace 1 instead of the current workspace
<lifeless> rickspencer3: thanks
<lifeless> cyphermox: ping
<lifeless> cyphermox: see backlog re: modemmanager
<cyphermox> lifeless, I'm afrait I don't have that backlog
<micahg> cyphermox: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2010/12/02/%23ubuntu-desktop.html#t00:45
<lifeless> micahg: thanks!
<cyphermox> yeah, I just got to it, I'm reading
<micahg> lifeless: np
<cyphermox> lifeless, from the logs I assume you already ran MM in debug mode, could you point me to the logs?
<lifeless> cyphermox: I did, I didn't save them.
<lifeless> I'll redo.
<cyphermox> please, that should give something useful to start with... do you use this with a separate sim card or the same as for your phone, if you have one?
<lifeless> its a new prepaid sim
<lifeless> single pack at the vodafone store contained modem and sim
<lifeless> they activated it for me
<lifeless> hang on
<cyphermox> lifeless, I'm just asking because sharing a sim leads to fun issues like pin2 and stuff that might not work well with MM, at least that has been an issue in the past
<lifeless> cyphermox: do you want me to try connecting with these debug logs open ?
<lifeless> https://pastebin.canonical.com/40373/
<lifeless> https://pastebin.canonical.com/40374/
<lifeless> https://pastebin.canonical.com/40375/
<lifeless> (I'm connected on wifi simultaneously to tal to you
<cyphermox> lifeless, had you been connected to wired we could have tried to stop MM and NM and pass commands to the modem manually, but I don't know what yet, I need to look at your pastes
<lifeless> cyphermox: I can be on wired
<lifeless> cyphermox: should I ?
<cyphermox> lifeless, no need for now
<cyphermox> very weird
<cyphermox> you bought it today?
<lifeless> yes
<lifeless> perhaps its not activated correctly; I can ring their helpdesk if that seems likely.
<Sarvatt> lifeless: Vodafone (UK) K3570-Z TopUp And Go ?
<Sarvatt> you aren't the only one according to google if so https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=623950
<lifeless> Sarvatt: no, .au
<ubot2> bugzilla.redhat.com bug 623950 in ModemManager "Vodafone (UK) K3570-Z TopUp And Go mobile broadband dongle won't connect" [Medium,New]
<lifeless> k3571-z
<lifeless> Sarvatt: It may be the same issue of course, I don't know what the 0->1 change means hw or s.w wise.
<lifeless> Sarvatt: it looks different
<lifeless> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/attachment.cgi?id=438796
<lifeless> they don't get NO CARRIER
<cyphermox> lifeless, fwiw, I recall being told activation could take up to a few hours
<lifeless> cyphermox: yah, let me un plug and replug.
<lifeless> it was, uhm, 6 hours back
<cyphermox> I don't see why you'd be able to properly register on the network but get a no carrier error like this, unless it was that there really was low signal, but afair 13,99 is not that bad
<cyphermox> trying to re-download the spec now to check ;)
<lifeless> cyphermox: unplugged, plugged in, still no go:
<lifeless> Dec  2 17:23:43 lifeless-64 modem-manager: Modem /org/freedesktop/ModemManager/Modems/1: state changed (registered -> connecting)
<lifeless> Dec  2 17:23:43 lifeless-64 modem-manager: Got failure code 3: No carrier
<lifeless> Dec  2 17:23:43 lifeless-64 modem-manager: Modem /org/freedesktop/ModemManager/Modems/1: state changed (connecting -> registered)
<cyphermox> yeah best I can think of is wait or call their helpdesk, all I see right now looks fine to me
<cyphermox> unless it needs some special command magic that I'm not aware of. but then I'll have to share with dcbw to see if he knows about it
<cyphermox> lifeless, can you tell me the usb id for your modem so I can speak to dcbw later?
<lifeless> sure, its not in the logs?
<lifeless> cyphermox: they say 'definitely activated'
<lifeless> Bus 002 Device 005: ID 19d2:1010 ONDA Communication S.p.A.
<cyphermox> ah
<lifeless> is betavine useful, or likely to trash my system?
<cyphermox> betavine?
<lifeless> https://forge.betavine.net/
<lifeless> https://forge.betavine.net/frs/?group_id=76&release_id=282
<cyphermox> usb_modeswitch_data you may want to try. it's not hugely damageable, maybe they switch the mode slightly differently and that will allow your modem to work
<cyphermox> to know, check the contained files that would get installed in /etc/modeswitch.d for the usb ID
<lifeless> bah, its not in it
<lifeless> https://forge.betavine.net/plugins/scmsvn/viewcvs.php/trunk/src/vodafone-mobile-connect/resources/platform/ubuntu/etc/udev/rules.d/45-vmc-zte.rules?rev=1086&root=vodafonemobilec&view=auto
<lifeless> covers it though
<cyphermox> that was fixed some time ago
<cyphermox> anyway, the file in the usb_modeswitch package they have is the same we ship in maverick and natty
<cyphermox> I'll brb, need to reboot into a live session
<lifeless> .
<cyphermox> all I see is a dot, did I miss something?
<lifeless_> cyphermox: I'm on wired now, nm killed off
<cyphermox> ok
<cyphermox> I still have no clear clue what to check though
<lifeless_> helpdesk said *99# right number, or *99***1# / *99***2#
<cyphermox> I'd be tempted to get at least at+clac? to know what commands the modem accepts, and maybe at+rssi? to know the signal level
<cyphermox> yeah
<lifeless_> I'm on ttyUSB1 in minicom
<lifeless_> is that suitable
<cyphermox> yep
<cyphermox> I was going to suggest screen, but minicom works as well
<cyphermox> speed is 115200, or whatever that number is for the highest setting
<lifeless> https://pastebin.canonical.com/40376/
<lifeless> AT+RSSI
<lifeless> ERROR
<cyphermox> duh, i'm being dumb, that one is called different on zte modems
<lifeless> AT+ZRSSI
<lifeless> +ZRSSI: 82,16,180
<lifeless> OK
<lifeless> ?
<cyphermox> yep
<cyphermox> thanks ;)
<lifeless> so, perhaps we shouldn't be doing ATD on USB1?
<lifeless> theres like 4 ports
<cyphermox> that's very plausible
<cyphermox> let's check something -- using wvdial and plain ppp
<bratsche> Is lp:eog the bzr import of upstream which we're using for Natty?  Does anyone know?
<lifeless> cyphermox: ready when you are
<lifeless> cyphermox: bingo
<lifeless> usb3:
<lifeless> at
<lifeless> OK
<lifeless> atd*99***2#
<lifeless> CONNECT 3600000
<lifeless> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/modemmanager/+bug/683996
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 683996 in modemmanager (Ubuntu) "NO CARRIER error vodafone K3571-Z ZTE 3g modem (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,New]
<cyphermox> sorry dude, I'm doing multiple things at once and it's getting really late here :/
<lifeless> thats ok
<lifeless> I'm looking for the control file now to tell mm what to do
<cyphermox> cool, with this bug I'll be able to look at it tomorrow at worst
<lifeless> in /lib/udev/rules.d/77-mm-zte-port-types.rules
<lifeless> what are the two lines
<lifeless> and what are the defaults?
<cyphermox> err, give me 2 min to get back to a non-live session where I can actually do stuff and I' ll look in the code to know ;)
<lifeless> kk
<lifeless> I'll WAG it for now
<lifeless> found it I think
<lifeless> https://forge.betavine.net/plugins/scmsvn/viewcvs.php/trunk/src/core/resources/udev/77-vmc-zte.rules?root=bcm&rev=608&r1=584&r2=608
<Sarvatt> ATTRS{idProduct}=="1010", ENV{.MM_USBIFNUM}=="03", ENV{ID_MM_ZTE_PORT_TYPE_MODEM}="1"
<Sarvatt> ATTRS{idProduct}=="1010", ENV{.MM_USBIFNUM}=="01", ENV{ID_MM_ZTE_PORT_TYPE_AUX}="1"
<Sarvatt>  maybe?
<Sarvatt> yep there it is
<lifeless_> win
<lifeless_> cyphermox: any diagnostics you want done ?
<lifeless> cyphermox: there are other models there that may need snarfing and including upstream
<cyphermox> cool, if you feel like it, go ahead and propose changes, we use this branch for packaging MM: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~modemmanager/modemmanager/ubuntu
<cyphermox> otherwise I'll do it tomorrow (it's almost 1am here)
<lifeless> cyphermox: tomorrow is fine, I have other fish to fry!
<pitti> Good morning
<lifeless> http://rbtcollins.wordpress.com/2010/12/02/justworks-hardware-vendors/
<lifeless> cyphermox: ^ fy entertainment
<cyphermox> lifeless, cool :)
<lifeless> thanks for your help, was wonderful.
<cyphermox> pitti, good morning ;)
<pitti> hey cyphermox
<lifeless> Sarvatt: that uk user
<lifeless> Sarvatt: I think his modem will be fixed by the same patch as mine - he has the ...0 variant
 * Sarvatt nods
<lifeless> the patch I found, and referenced has both.
<rickspencer3> hey pitti good morning
<pitti> hey rickspencer3, how are you?
<rickspencer3> well
<rickspencer3> listening to some music before I turn in
<rickspencer3> pitti, seems the Alpha 1 image is working reasonably well
<pitti> nice to hear
<rickspencer3> indeed
 * pitti just rsyncing the latest one
<pitti> kvm is still acting up for me, but on real iron the live system comes up quite nicely
<rickspencer3> mmm
<rickspencer3> for an A1, well, seems quite suitable for early feedback
<rickspencer3> and the Unity launcher is surprisingly usable, at least for me with my Intel graphics
<pitti> robert_ancell: hey
<pitti> robert_ancell: I uploaded the new glade because (1) it was going to stick in binary NEW, and (2) glade-3 isn't on our CDs, so it couldn't break the images
<pitti> robert_ancell: apparently it got binNEWed, so indeed we need to rebuild gnome-media now; I see that you already prepared it in bzr, do you want to upload, or want me to?
<pitti> robert_ancell: I'll respond to your second question via mail
<robert_ancell> pitti, you can upload, I'm about to leave.  I was just waiting for A1 to be released
<pitti> robert_ancell: ok, will do; have a good night!
<didrocks> good morning
<micahg> if there's no rush, I can take the gnome-shell gir-repository-dev build-dep drop
<didrocks> hey pitti
<didrocks> pitti: robert uploaded unity it seems, I'm not sure about his patch, do you think it's in the iso?
<pitti> hey didrocks, good morning
<pitti> micahg: thanks
<pitti> micahg: no, it's not that urgent
<pitti> didrocks: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/20101202/natty-desktop-i386.manifest
<pitti> didrocks: which version do we expect?
<pitti> didrocks: it seems to be the current one (3.2.2-0ubuntu2)
<didrocks> pitti: hey
<didrocks> yeahâ¦
<didrocks> don't know why people upload hacks without upstream review :/
<didrocks> wellâ¦ that's ok, we'll see
<didrocks> pitti: btw, it seems that apport doesn't trigger on crashes when there is no notification area. I think it's related to update-notifier, isn't it?
<pitti> didrocks: correct
<didrocks> (it seems it tries to launch it, then stop, tries, stopâ¦)
<didrocks> ok, I'll have a look there if you don't mind
<pitti> we need update-notifier for this
<pitti> if u-n isn't running, apport crashes won't be shown
<didrocks> that will be better for unity :)
<pitti> (it still catches them, though, at least in the live system)
<didrocks> less bugs \o/
<didrocks> yeah
<pitti> didrocks: I figure u-n will move to an appindicator?
<didrocks> pitti: seems logical, I have to look at what's it displaying
<didrocks> rather than having a dummy menu, maybe we can build one with "crash on app1", "crash on app2"â¦
<didrocks> so that when you click on it, you only report one crash
<didrocks> (I guess it's calling apport-bug)
<rodrigo_> morning
<didrocks> hey rodrigo_
<seb128> hey
<didrocks> salut seb128
<seb128> lut didrocks
<seb128> didrocks, how are you?
<seb128> didrocks, sorry about the unity upload not compliant to your rules
<seb128> I was on a maverick box and couldn't do build and testing yesterday and we needed to get that fix out
<didrocks> especially in freeze and with a patch without upstream review
<seb128> well, a1 was crashing on the livecd for everyone
<seb128> and you were not around
<didrocks> oh really?
<seb128> the patch is coming from jay
<seb128> didrocks, yes, your import code imports examples.desktop
<didrocks> ok, then :) I was afraid about the patch rather the upload :)
<seb128> which is not an application desktop
<seb128> the launcher go "what?"
<seb128> and crash
<didrocks> ok, I imported that because the launcher was supposed to deal with those desktop files
<seb128> well it doesn't
<seb128> it was just crashing on the live session
<didrocks> ok, then, it's ok if upstream reviewed the patch :)
<seb128> it's not reviewed
<didrocks> can you make sure that it's in trunk as well?
<seb128> I could get hold of anybody but jay
<didrocks> wel, jay did it
<didrocks> ok
<seb128> couldn't
<seb128> brb getting coffee
<didrocks> is there an upstream bug about it?
<rodrigo_> hi didrocks, seb128
<seb128> the bug has the reference and the vcs from jay
<didrocks> (still not at the end of the 50+ bugs email related to unity)
<seb128> hey rodrigo_
<seb128> didrocks, so robert didn't know about bzr merging some revision to backport the fix
<seb128> didrocks, he switched to v3 because that was easier that to add a patch system
<didrocks> seb128: well, let's no worry about that, I'll just revert the v3 source
<geser> does someone have an idea why gnome-panel doesn't autostart anymore for me (natty)?
<seb128> I guess you only want to merge the changelog entry and backport the commit once in trunk
<didrocks> seb128: I was just worried about the patch not being blessed by anyone :)
<didrocks> seb128: right, I'm not sure about that commit or to add proper support
<seb128> didrocks, it has been made by jay and confirmed to work by several people
<seb128> it's just a workaround for a1
<didrocks> seb128: sure, it's totally fine, no worry :)
<seb128> didrocks, the side effect is a launcher without text or icon
<didrocks> RAOF: does emacs23.dekstop or whatever has a path to icon=/ ?
<didrocks> seb128: yeah, for those, the nautilus icon makes sense, doesn't it?
<seb128> well the .desktop has an Icon= line
<didrocks> (well, if the launcher is supposed to support them)
<seb128> the launcher code probably just fail to parse it
<didrocks> ok, I know there are some failing when Icon=/absolute/path
<seb128> I blame it on njpatel ;-)
<didrocks> but it doesn't crash, you have the ?
<seb128> didrocks, in this case it's "Icon=folder"
<didrocks> well, it didn't
<didrocks> hum, ok :)
<didrocks> so unknown icon
<seb128> didrocks, it's just that the desktop type is no application
<seb128> it's a directory
<didrocks> yeahâ¦ I'll fix that, sounds small and easy :)
<seb128> ;-)
<seb128> great!
<RAOF> didrocks: Yeah, it does - I found the relevant unity bug and duped it against it.
<didrocks> I have that + the other case
<seb128> didrocks, is there any sort of tests for the launcher?
<didrocks> RAOF: yeah, I have it with a wine app (monkey island2, special edition) :)
<seb128> seems a case to add to the tests
<didrocks> seb128: there are a lot
<didrocks> seb128: not enough apparently :)
<didrocks> but yeah, there are
<seb128> ok
<didrocks> not sure about corrupted .desktop file though
 * didrocks adds to his TODO
<seb128> well that one is not corrupted
<seb128> do you want me to try to debug the issue?
<didrocks> well, corrupted/not as expected/ :)
<seb128> would be a nice way to get around the unity code
<didrocks> seb128: no, it's fine, I just finish catching up on my email and then I have time for that
<seb128> ok
<seb128> I need to find another bug
<didrocks> "it's mine, it's mine" :)
<seb128> I want to start getting familiat wirh unity
<seb128> t->r
<didrocks> seb128: do you want bitesize-like bug? I'm afraid the one you reported aren't easy
<didrocks> seb128: for instance, the animation "too quick" is a workaround for the launcher not being clickable on "urgent" state
<seb128> didrocks, right, I don't want to get close from compiz (yet)
<seb128> like no work on focus issues
<seb128> that launcher one seems something easy to start with
<seb128> but I will find another one
<seb128> don't worry ;-)
<seb128> I'm subscribed to the unity bugs and they are supposed to build lists for people like me every week
<didrocks> ok :)
<seb128> so we know on what we can help a bit ;-)
<didrocks> yeah, there are another bitesize one IIRC
<rodrigo_> seb128, looking at your comment at https://code.launchpad.net/~rodrigo-moya/ubuntu/natty/gnome-control-center/2_91_3_release/+merge/42134 -> indeed I forgot to add some removed patches to debian/changelog, but debian/patches/01_remove_debian_default_applications.patch hasn't been deleted
<rodrigo_> seb128, pushing my fixed changelog
<seb128> rodrigo_, oh right, I saw only red lines for it
<seb128> though it seemed to be code deleted rather than updated
<seb128> rodrigo_, sorry about that ;-)
<seb128> I guess upstream dropped the debian entry from the list?
<rodrigo_> seb128, no problem, there's indeed code removed
<rodrigo_> seb128, no, just the list of web browsers
<rodrigo_> we use g_app_info_* now instead of a fixed list of browsers
<rodrigo_> ditto for mail readers
<rodrigo_> seb128, there's still the part of the patch which removes the debian terminal
<seb128> ok
<rodrigo_> seb128, ok, pushed
<seb128> great
<seb128> brb
<GunnarHj> pitti: Good Morning! Thought I'd try to catch you before they wake up over there... Fresh patches and merge proposals, hopefully ready for a more 'sharp' review. See also comment #70, 73 and 74 at https://launchpad.net/bugs/553162
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 553162 in language-selector (Ubuntu) (and 3 other projects) "Set $LANGUAGE if the user picks a different locale in gdm, so that language-selector and gdm stop disagreeing (affects: 30) (dups: 10) (heat: 192)" [Undecided,In progress]
<pitti> GunnarHj: I saw the responses, thanks!
<seb128> re
<seb128>  sorry I compiz crashes really screwed my xorg
<seb128>  I had to restart
 * seb128 does some config changes
<seb128> let's remove IRC from my autostart softwares
<GunnarHj> pitti: Are we close to committing?
<didrocks> seb128: hum? still crashes with latest compiz?
<pitti> GunnarHj: I still have to catch up with all the recent comments
<pitti> GunnarHj: but this should certainly land by a2 if we can get to an agreement how to juggle all the files :)
<GunnarHj> pitti: Ok, I'll be patient. Logging out now; back in a few hours.
<dpm> hey pitti, good morning. Have you had a chance to have a look at what happened with yesterday's maverick langpack build in the PPA?
<pitti> dpm: not yet, sorry; I'm currently drowning in emails and external requests
<pitti> but it's high on my list, promised
<dpm> pitti, no worries, thanks!
<seb128> kklimonda1, hi
<Zdra> is there a way to remove a package from a ppa?
<seb128> yes, go in the detailled view of the ppa
<seb128> on the right of the page you have a delete page url
<Zdra> I've uploaded an old broken gnome-keyring which generate a libgcr0 package, now I uploaded a fix that rename it to libgcr-3... but ppa still give the broken libgcr0 and override maverick's
<Zdra> seb128, ^
<seb128> what ppa is that?
<Zdra> https://launchpad.net/~telepathy/+archive/telepathy-devel
<seb128> Zdra, click on "view package details"
<seb128> in the right corner
<seb128> then on "delete packages"
<seb128> you should have the old gnome-keyring in the list
<seb128> select it and delete it
<Zdra> seb128, oh sorry, didn't realize that delete package shows more packages than the normal view
<Zdra> seb128, thanks :D
<seb128> you're welcome
<seb128> it's a bit confusing indded
<seb128> indeed
<rodrigo_> Zdra, that's already available in the gnome3 ppa
<Zdra> rodrigo_, I know, I copied your package ;)
<Zdra> thanks :)
<rodrigo_> Zdra, ah, ok
<rodrigo_> Zdra, working on the telepathy stack for gtk3?
<Zdra> yep
<Zdra> we got everything
<rodrigo_> cool
<rodrigo_> and are you keeping stuff in that PPA, or do you plan to put it on the gnome3 one?
<cassidy> our telepathy-devel PPA should contain everything
<Zdra> rodrigo_, I don't want to use gnome3 ppa, it contains too much things
<Zdra> rodrigo_, I prefer keeping the minimum to havem empathy3 running
<seb128> will empathy run fine on GNOME 2.32?
<seb128> out of the gtk3 depends
<Zdra> seb128, yes
<seb128> well, like will it required other GNOME3 desktop components to integrate correctly?
<Zdra> seb128, I have it here
<Zdra> seb128, but GTK theme does not work :(
<seb128> right, it does, but is it going to stay this way?
<Zdra> seb128, it also need keyring/canberra/notify
<seb128> well I guess you don't get the nautilus-sendto integration to work for example
<seb128> since nautilus is still on gtk2
<Zdra> seb128, that's optional at build-time
<Zdra> but indeed, I don't think it works
<seb128> didrocks, dbarth: bug #683797
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 683797 in apport "apport should work without the systray (affects: 1) (heat: 10)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/683797
<seb128> could you give details?
<seb128> I've a GNOME session without systray and it works fine there...
<didrocks> seb128: even if you get a crash?
<seb128> didrocks, yes
<didrocks> seb128: ubuntu-bug works and apport-bug as well
<seb128> I just sig11 gconf-editor to try
<seb128> with update-notifier running on a command line
<seb128> it notices the .crash and fire apport
<didrocks> weird, it's not working there and pitti confirmed that update-notifier needs porting for it working
<didrocks> it went in a loop cycle for me
<seb128> hum, "porting"?
<seb128> to what?
<didrocks> (yesterday)
<didrocks> seb128: to indicator, not systray
<seb128> it's a service
<didrocks> ad the bug title infered
<seb128> why does it need any ui to run apport?
<didrocks> as*
<didrocks> don't ask meâ¦ I just reported what I saw yesterday
<didrocks> but my session was maybe broken, let me try today
<seb128> ok, weird
<seb128> I tried again works fine
<didrocks> so, I started with unity, no gnome-panel
<didrocks> I have update-notifier launched
<seb128> but I'm running update-notifier manually on a command line to see the output
<seb128> I cleaned /var/crash
<didrocks> here, it was runned by the system
<seb128> because I had issues where it didn't notice new crashes for some reason otherwise
<didrocks> run*
<didrocks> let's try to triger a segv
<didrocks> trigger*
<seb128> I just send a -11 to gconf-editor there to try
<pitti> didrocks: bash -c 'kill -SEGV $$'
<didrocks> (that's what I did yesterday)
<pitti> ^ triggers an easy crash
<seb128> checking for valid crashreport now
<seb128> gconf-editor
<seb128> ** (update-notifier:26767): DEBUG: fire up the crashreport tool
<seb128> that's what update-notifier does
<didrocks> ok, nothing with gconf-editor
<seb128> and I get the apport "restart" "report" "ignore"
<didrocks> let's see with killing the current terminal
<didrocks> nothing as well
<seb128> ok, weird
<seb128> I will try in an unity session later
<didrocks> if I ps aux | grep apport
<didrocks> I see apport is launched
<seb128> didrocks, update-notifier doesn't print anything?
<didrocks> stopped, launched
<seb128> hum
<didrocks> seb128: well, I don't run it by hand, are there logs?
<seb128> seems an apport bug then?
<seb128> didrocks, .xsession-errors
<rodrigo_> Zdra, right, but we still want your packages in the gnome3 ppa, so how can we do it so that it's easy for you?
<rodrigo_> Zdra, would it work if you packaged stuff in a lp:~ubuntu-desktop/$package/ubuntugtk3 branch, as we do with other gnome3 ppa stuff?
<rodrigo_> Zdra, that is, if you submitted merge proposals to that branch?
<Zdra> rodrigo_, we don't have empathy3 package yet
<Zdra> we only collected all its dep
<rodrigo_> Zdra, right, but we want all the deps also :)
<Zdra> and we just copied packages from you, or from debian experimental
<rodrigo_> oh
<pitti> dpm: currently the maverick updates run on Saturdays; is that wrong?
<pitti> dpm: lucid updates shold run today
<pitti> dpm: sorry, yesterday
<Zdra> rodrigo_, so there is not much you can benefit from that ppa actually, it's just an help for empathy devs
<dpm> pitti, that does not seem to be correct: https://dev.launchpad.net/Translations/LanguagePackSchedule
<rodrigo_> Zdra, ok, so you don't plan to be doing lots of changes in the packages, apart from copying them from our ppa and debian?
<didrocks> seb128: nothing, let me try running update-notifier manually
<pitti> dpm: hm, seems that I got that the wrong way around then
<didrocks> seb128: my .xsession-errors is spammed by unity warning
<Zdra> rodrigo_, we are doing no change at all ;)
<dpm> pitti, ah. Is that easily fixable? Is it just a matter of updating the cron tab?
<Zdra> rodrigo_, we are not packagers, only devs ;)
<rodrigo_> Zdra, ok then, I guess I'll copy your packages then to ubuntugtk3 branches
<pitti> dpm: sure, already done
<pitti> dpm: at least lucid ran through just fine
<dpm> pitti, awesome, thanks. Is there a way to trigger a PPA build for maverick today and copy it to -proposed when finished, so that we can start with the testing?
<rodrigo_> seb128, do you agree on that? (copying the packages from Zdra's ppa to ubuntugtk3 branches, with a merge proposal from me first, of course :-)
<pitti> dpm: it will run automatically
<seb128> rodrigo_, they shouldn't have anything we don't have, but sure
<pitti> dpm: it shold run in about 3 hours
<rodrigo_> seb128, well, they have the new telepathy, built with gtk3, right Zdra?
<seb128> rodrigo_, telepathy doesn't use gtk
<pitti> dpm: argh, sorry; Thu today; yes, I'll run it manualy now
<Zdra> rodrigo_, seb128: afaik the only things not coming from gnome3 ppa is telepathy-* which are in debian
<rodrigo_> ok
<Zdra> rodrigo_, telepathy-* packages does not depend on gtk
<seb128> we get the telepathy updates from debian
<didrocks> seb128: I have no log in update-notifier, even if I kill the system one and launch by hand
<rodrigo_> ok, then we just need empathy from them, when they build it :-)
<pitti> dpm: running now, let's see how it holds up
<dpm> pitti, ok, so maverick: manual run today and then the next run will be automatic on Wed at 14:00 UTC, right?
<pitti> dpm: correct
<dpm> great.
<pitti> dpm: well, 14:00 british time, to be precise
<pitti> i. e. an hour later in the summer
<dpm> :-)
<and471> hey mvo & mpt
<mpt> Good morning
<mvo> hey and
<mvo> and471:
<mvo> good morning
<and471> mvo, mpt, college is closed :)
<mpt> aha
<seb128> didrocks, ok, thanks, I will try under unity later on
<dpm> pitti, ok, could we also activate the Natty langpacks uploads just after A1, so that we can start testing them? We're about to open translations in LP (should have done already a few days ago, it's been blocking on me)
<cdbs> echo "hey" | all
<rodrigo_> seb128, and when/how do we get updates from debian? (for telepathy-*)
<and471> hey bilal
<seb128> rodrigo_, we do syncs on debian almost daily when we are not in freeze for alpha
<seb128> like that's the case this week
<pitti> dpm: yes, we can do that
<cdbs> seb128: We sync daily?
<cdbs> I thought once in 3-4 days!
<rodrigo_> seb128, hmm, ok
<seb128> rodrigo_, why? is there an issue?
<rodrigo_> seb128, no, was just wondering
<dpm> pitti, great, thanks again
<rodrigo_> and also, where's a list of packages we get from debian? so that we don't update them?
<seb128> rodrigo_, everything which has a revision without ubuntu in it
<rodrigo_> ah, ok
<and471> mpt, do you get in on the train?
<mpt> and471, no, I walk
<and471> ah
<and471> mpt, trains were very delayed today...
<didrocks> seb128: ok, if I clean /var/crash/ it's working with or without systrayâ¦ It seems that I had something in /var/crash now spawning it (and dbarth too)
<Zdra> rodrigo_, tbh we are waiting for you/debian to package empathy
<Zdra> rodrigo_, as I said, we are not packagers ;)
<seb128> didrocks, ok, what I said before
<didrocks> seb128: well, to be confirmed, I relaunch update-notifier manually
<seb128> I cleaned /var/crash
<seb128> because I had issues where it didn't notice new crashes for some reason otherwise
<seb128> didrocks, ^
<didrocks> seb128: so, the ping is rather that there are invalid /var/crash or some logic there preventing to present new crashes?
<seb128> that was like 10 minutes ago
<rodrigo_> Zdra, ok, I'll try empathy packaging, as soon as I finish a couple other packages I'm working on
<seb128> didrocks, I didn't debug that so not sure
<seb128> rodrigo_, btw before going for new packages could you try sorting the patches you commented
<didrocks> I'll update the bug report, in any case, we need indicator support for that
<rodrigo_> seb128, yes
<seb128> you did comment a bunch in different sources IIRC
<Zdra> rodrigo_, cool thanks :D
<seb128> didrocks, why?
<seb128> didrocks, we don't use the systray for like 2 years?
<rodrigo_> seb128, yes, I'm waiting for the upstream code to stabilize a bit, to not have to be rebasing the patches all the time
<seb128> ok
<didrocks> seb128: apport is showing in the systray to report bugs, isn't it?
<rodrigo_> seb128, but yes, sure, I'll try rebasing some
<seb128> didrocks, not for 2 years
<didrocks> seb128: ? why do I get an icon there?
<seb128> didrocks, we autospawn the apport dialog
<didrocks> the ?
<seb128> didrocks, because you tweaked the gconf key back then?
<didrocks> hum, my config isn't so old IIRC, but maybeâ¦
<seb128> didrocks, /apps/update-notifier/auto_launch
<didrocks> seb128: true
<seb128> hum
<seb128> so dunno why you get the systray icon
<didrocks> and yes, it's launching automatically (apart with the previous bug)
<seb128> I've not seen it on any of my boxes for years
<didrocks> but I get the systray icon as well
<dbarth> didrocks: so the bug is invalid then?
<didrocks> dbarth: well, it seems there were some crash file confusing apport, do you still have your /var/crash?
<seb128> dbarth, there is a bug but it's not due to the systray
<didrocks> but still, let me see in a clean box
 * didrocks update-iso
<didrocks> I don't remember to have tweaked anything for the icon
<didrocks> and my config is recent
<seb128> didrocks, you get a systray icon on crash?
<didrocks> /apps/update-notifier/hide_reboot_notification
<didrocks> seb128: right
<seb128> that's different
<didrocks> hum?
<didrocks> you told it doesn't use the systray, there is no icon
<seb128> <didrocks> /apps/update-notifier/hide_reboot_notification
<seb128> that's different from the systray
<dbarth> didrocks: i cleaned it, but i do have a new gvfsd crash that was present yesterday; it may be the cause of the issue; i'll retest in a moment
<seb128> I think
<didrocks> seb128: oh yeah, sorry, didn't look close enough
<didrocks> trying to see if there is a key for that
<didrocks> /apps/update-notifier/show_apport_crashes ?
<didrocks> (that's the right paste)
<didrocks> seems to be that from the description
<didrocks> seb128: after unsetting the key, I still have true
<didrocks> seems that *you* tweaked it :)
<rodrigo_> so, any idea why patches might not be being applied when building a package?
<rodrigo_> I've been looking, but really can't find why they're not applied
<seb128> $ gconftool-2 --get /apps/update-notifier/show_apport_crashes
<seb128> true
<seb128> didrocks, ^
<didrocks> and you don't get the icon?
<seb128> no
<didrocks> waow :)
<seb128>         <long>If this is disabled, the user will not be notified about pending apport crash reports.</long>
<didrocks> right "pending crash" == icon notification for me?
<didrocks> as when you click on it, you process all previous crashes in /var/crash
<didrocks> or do I understand that wrongly?
<seb128> well, I get the apport dialog and no systray icon there
<seb128> which I think is the intend
<didrocks> I've always seen the systray icon, still downloading the iso, I'll keep you posted
<seb128> mvo, ^
<didrocks> then, we can refine if we need the port to indicator or not
<kklimonda1> seb128: hi, sorry for disappearing - I got a flu or something similar and spent last few days in my bed.
<didrocks> (still think that reporting easily previous crash is needed)
<mvo> seb128: that is still there for crashes that happend for root, we don't want to throw a gksu widnow into the face of people
<mvo> seb128: its apport really
<didrocks> mvo: so, the icon showing for me in the systray is intended?
<seb128> mvo, oh ok
<seb128> didrocks, so it seems it's only when you get non user crashes
<seb128> that's why I don't get it when crashing my gconf-editor
<didrocks> yeahâ¦ seems that I have a lot of couchdb process crashing (not desktopcouch)
<didrocks> so maybe that's why I took it for normal
<didrocks> let me still have a test in a clean livecd
<rodrigo_> hey kklimonda1
<rodrigo_> kklimonda1, feeling better now?
<kklimonda1> rodrigo_: yes, still not not fully recovered but at least I can focus on my computer again ;)
<rodrigo_> :)
<kklimonda1> at least for a while - looks like I'm getting a headache already. and the weather is getting better and better..
<kklimonda1> seb128: I can push gtkmm packaging once I recall how to do that.. ;)
<mvo> seb128, didrocks: yep, happy to discuss about improving that at some point. its a bit of a corner case I guess
<seb128> kklimonda1, hey, ok, no hurry
<seb128> kklimonda1, get better!
<seb128> mvo, well in any case no systray support in unity
<seb128> mvo, I will port if to appindicator
<seb128> didrocks, do you still work on bug #656325?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 656325 in update-notifier (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "should use gsettings rather than gconf (affects: 1) (heat: 67)" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/656325
<didrocks> seb128: well, it was my "free week hacking day", I wanted to tackle that today or tomorrow
<seb128> ok
<seb128> stop stealing all the fun tasks :p
<didrocks> seb128: do it then, I've done enough gsettings porting :)
<seb128> ok, thanks
<seb128> I've done none yet
<didrocks> thanks to you :)
<seb128> I want to do one at least
<didrocks> seb128: it's fun and easy!
 * seb128 hugs didrocks
 * didrocks hugs seb128
<pitti> is anyone here on current natty i386?
<seb128> pitti, sort of
<seb128> I'm missing some updates but it's mostly "current"
<seb128> I can updates missing bits if required ;-)
<pitti> seb128: can you please run this:
<didrocks> some here, apart from grub
<pitti> python2.7 -c 'from gi.repository import Gdk, Gtk; Gtk.require_version("3.0"); print type(Gdk.WMFunction.MOVE), type(Gdk.WMFunction.MOVE|Gdk.WMFunction.RESIZE)'
<pitti> seb128: and give me the output?
<seb128> <class 'gi.repository.Gdk.Enum'> <type 'int'>
<pitti> seb128: thanks
<seb128> yw
<pitti> so it's not an arch specific bug
<didrocks> seb128: ok, so I triggered a crash on today's livecd. in unity session: you get an additional launcher item corresponding to the apport window.
<seb128> didrocks, great
<didrocks> seb128: but in the gnome-classic session, I have an empty /var/crash, send a segv to bash as a user, and I can the systray icon
<didrocks> so, it seems to not be only for "root" apps, it's the general rule
<seb128> weird, I can't confirm that here
<seb128> ls /var/crash?
<didrocks> _bin_bash.999.crash and .lock
<didrocks> mvo: ^^
<seb128> where 999 is your user?
<didrocks> yeah, the ubuntu user in the live session
<pitti> 999 is the ubuntu live system user, FTR
<didrocks> so, I think there is a check id < 1000
<mvo> right
<seb128> could be
<mvo> iirc that is the case, it checks for system users
<seb128> in any case I will port to the indicator
<didrocks> ok, make sense then :)
<didrocks> seb128: you never have couchdb crashing for the last release to not have seen the icon? :)
<seb128> no
<seb128> but I don't have an u1 account
<seb128> well I don't use u1 rather
<seb128> I share nothing and sync nothing
<didrocks> make sense then :)
<didrocks> thanks for the confirmation seb128 and mvo!
<seb128> didrocks, thank you for investigating and helping to figure what's going on ;-)
<seb128> there is still a bug where it doesn't notice new .crashes though
<didrocks> maybe we should < 999 then for the live session
<seb128> but at least it's not buggy in the default install
<didrocks> seb128: right, next time, I'll back up my /var/crash
<didrocks> and remove one by one
<seb128> so unity crashes should be notified
<didrocks> yeah
<pitti> ah, our gtk+3.0 gir is broken; /me debugs
<seb128> mvo, do we still need restart notification is update-notifier?
<seb128> since indicator-session and update-manager handle those nowadays
<mvo> seb128: please keep it for now, its useful for e.g. xfce and similar derivates
<mvo> seb128: but ideally the old u-n would just get forked and a new one based on just a bunch of scrips created, the goal was to have a session upstart instead of update-notifier
<mvo> seb128: not sure how the future looks like here
<seb128> mvo, well, one thing at the time, the current issue is that unity has no systray support
<mvo> yes
<mvo> sure :)
<seb128> mvo, ideally we would drop notification icon use for restart, or buggy apt state
<mvo> I was just outlining what I would like to see in the far future
<mvo> basicly old update-notifier without autolaunch for projects that want it
<seb128> the only case where I can see useful now is for apport bugs which are not from the current user
<mvo> and a new session-daemon that does all the autolaunching
<mvo> right
<mvo> in our current model it does not make that much sense
<pitti> we also currnetly abuse it to launch jockey on missing firmware
<seb128> I'm not sure what to do now
<pitti> but I agree that neither the apport nor jockey case are truly fitting into u-n
<seb128> things like the broken update status icon don't fit in the indicator
<seb128> or the restart icon
<seb128> I'm pondering not bothering and let those this way
<seb128> they will just not show up on unity
<mvo> I had a plan about this last cycle
<seb128> which was?
<mvo> but then the idea to use upstart in session mode came up
<seb128> or is? ;-)
<mvo> to split update-notifier into the old notification icon stuff
<pitti> mvo: does that already work?
<mvo> and a new one
<mvo> pitti: no, I talked to scott and he said its striaghtforward
<seb128> pitti, did upstart change last cycle?
<mvo> and he has some ideas
<pitti> seb128: not really
<seb128> pitti, so I guess "no"
<seb128> that was discuss in brussels but nothing happened
<seb128> discussed
<pitti> seb128: yeah, I meant "in that secret branch that Keybuk mentioned", or "newer version" or so
<mvo> well â¦
<seb128> pitti, I would like Keybuk to reply to your email for that
<mvo> anyway, I decided not to waste time working on it on the basis that upstart would replace my work anyway
<pitti> mvo: but upstart also doesn't have file based triggers yet, AFAIK
<mvo> but in the current circumstance I may reconsider
<mvo> right
<seb128> mvo, ok, so what do you want me to do
<pitti> i. e. we cannot run an action if /var/crash or /var/run/reboot-required changes, etc.
<seb128> I was going to port it to appindicator
<seb128> but it doesn't really fit for some of the things
<mvo> seb128: maybe just auto-launch a dialog ?
<mvo> so that there is no "give me your password" in your face dialog
<seb128> hum
<seb128> but we don't want that on Ubuntu though
<seb128> mvo, well I can port the apport case to appindicator
<seb128> I'm just not sure what to do with the warning about apt being in a weird state
<seb128> or the restart case
<mvo> don't worry about those
<mvo> the restart one is handled inline anyway
<seb128> well they can't be easily ported to appindicator
<mvo> and the "apt is odd" we should handle via autolaunch
<seb128> you don't want to drop those because if xubuntu
<seb128> if -> og
<mvo> well, they will just not appear :)
<seb128> of
<seb128> so you wan to have both a status icon and an indicator?
<mvo> actually, let me just sit down and look at the code and I may actually just FDI, all I need is a bunch of inotiy hooks and some scripts
<mvo> (famous last word ;)
<seb128> lol
<seb128> I didn't want to get you to do it
<mvo> *arg* worst bug in unity evah! my clock is showing 3:05 instead of 15:05
<seb128> seems texans and european can't agree on time format
<mvo> right, that is fine, there LC_TIME for tihs
<seb128> (there is a bug with discussion with pitti ted and some others about the issue)
<seb128> well ted seems to think that's an hackish way to deal with it
<mvo> I'm puzzled what there is to discuss "honor LC_TIME, kthnxbye"
<seb128> I think the format is in the translations at the moment
<pitti> (as if that wasn't a hack :) )
<seb128> well the discussion is on how to do it so it doesn't rely on translators
<pitti> unfortunately there is no truly clean way to ask the locale "do you use 24 or 12 hours?"
<pitti> seb128: we already figured that out
<seb128> pitti, so what was stopping proper support?
<seb128> like asking the locale?
<seb128> rather than using a translation
<pitti> seb128: just that ted doesn't like the solution
<seb128> distro patch it? :-)
<mvo> isn't strftime() doing the right thing on its own?
 * mvo looks at the manpage
<seb128> mvo, well the issue comes when you want options to display seconds or not
<pitti> mvo: only with seconds
<seb128> mvo, or days or not
<seb128> if that was just the time it would be fine
<seb128> but some people want the day displayed, some don't want the seconds, etc
<seb128> then you don't have an easy api to tell me "give the time in 24 hours format without the seconds"
<mvo> geh, so what is gnome-panel doing then? it seems to be jsut fine
<seb128> they use translations as well
<mvo>  bÃ¤Ã¤
<pitti> mvo: bug 652976  FYI
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 652976 in indicator-datetime (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "Time format not taken from LC_TIME (affects: 2) (heat: 67)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/652976
<seb128> they have the strftime options in a string
<pitti> that explains how to detect this
<bcurtiswx_> nautilus crash cured in 2.91.3 woo
<seb128> great
<bcurtiswx_> but
<bcurtiswx_> now im seeing nautilus works, but when I try to double click my desktop from /home/bcurtis it temp crashes it
<bcurtiswx_> also my ubuntu one shared/syncd folder
<bcurtiswx_> oh nautilus, why must you hate me
<seb128> it's likely because those still use gtk2 and install a .so for nautilus
<seb128> which is on gtk3
<seb128> there is a reason this work is in a ppa and not in natty ;-)
<bcurtiswx_> ah OK, granted it would be a lot more frustrating if i didn't know how to navigate linux through a terminal...
<bcurtiswx_> yeah, i was fully aware of the "fun" i'd have by using the PPA..
<bcurtiswx_> autoremove has dkms, i would imagine removing this to be a no no
<pitti> bcurtiswx_: why? if you don't have any nvidia/fglrx/wl drivers installed, you don't need it?
<bcurtiswx_> pitti, ah since i'm using the open source versions i don't.. good point..
<bcurtiswx_> safe assumption if i use them dkms will install itself
<pitti> dependencies FTW :)
<bcurtiswx_> survey says.. :) thx
<rodrigo_> ugh, after updating gtk3, all my apps crash
<pitti> rodrigo_: oh, are you preparing a new gtk+3.0 upload?
<rodrigo_> pitti, no
<rodrigo_> pitti, just updated this afternoon the package that was in natty
<pitti> hm, works here
<rodrigo_> but I guess we might need a new GTK?
<rodrigo_> g-c-c crashes on size_request calls
<pitti> but I have been tracking down why the Gdk gir is broken for the last 3 hours
<pitti> (ugh)
<pitti> and I'd like to fix that in the next upload
<rodrigo_> well, gtk_widget_size_allocate
<rodrigo_> oh, is it broken?
<pitti> yes, it's missing all the glib:type-name attributes
<pitti> gnome bug  636043
<ubot2> Gnome bug 636043 in introspection "Combining multiple Gdk.WMFunction flags gives TypeError" [Minor,Resolved: invalid] http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=636043
<rodrigo_> ah
<pitti> and it's a PITA to debug
<rodrigo_> yeah
<pitti> it works if I unpack the orig.tar.gz, configure, make
<pitti> but is broken when I build the package
<pitti> (i. e. same pygobject, gi, etc.)
<rodrigo_> weird
<pitti> \o/ I finally got it, and it only took 4 hours
 * ari-tczew has leaved gnome for kde.
<mterry> pitti, yay!
<rodrigo_> pitti, the gir thing?
<pitti> rodrigo_: right; fixes pushed to bzr now
<pitti> will upload after a1
<rodrigo_> pitti, so, what was it?
<pitti> rodrigo_: I followed up in gnome bug 636043
<ubot2> Gnome bug 636043 in general "When using a separate build tree, GIR has incomplete type information" [Minor,New] http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=636043
<pitti> apparently it's using the wrong gdkenumtypes.h
<pitti> I still don't understand it fully
<pitti> at least now I know where the root cause is, but not yet why
<pitti> but I got half of the fix attached to the upstream bug
<pitti> and a workaround in bzr now
<rodrigo_> cool
<seb128> it's likely due to build out of srcdir
<seb128> (I didn't read the bug)
<pitti> seb128: that was half of the problem, yes
<pitti> which I attached a patch for
<pitti> ok, good night everyone!
<seb128> 'night pitti
<seb128> pitti, you can probably upload, I guess we will not respin isos now
<seb128> so it builds over night?
<seb128> pitti, btw I've a day off tomorrow so don't worry if I'm not around
<pitti> seb128: ok, sure
<pitti> seb128: hm, well, I'll have another look at this tomorrow
<pitti> I'd really like to figure out the root cause
<seb128> ok
<pitti> otherwise this could hit us with other packages as well
<pitti> but my brain is steaming now
<pitti> (and my wife returned from work, too :) )
<seb128> pitti, enjoy your evening!
<pitti> seb128: and you!
<pitti> seb128: enjoy your holiday
<seb128> thanks
 * chrisccoulson really needs to book some holiday too
<didrocks> have a good evening pitti
<rodrigo_> bye pitti
<rodrigo_> seb128, national holiday tomorrow, or just a day off?
<seb128> rodrigo_, day off, I've quite some to take still before end of the year
<rodrigo_> ah, right, you told me
<rodrigo_> I'm off also tomorrow, and Monday, for national holidays :)
<rodrigo_> I was wondering if France had the same # of national holidays as Spain, but I see you are still a productive country :-D
<seb128> lol
<seb128> rodrigo_, enjoy your days off then ;-)
<rodrigo_> I will, yes :)
<geser> what I'm missing that my gnome-panel doesn't get started anymore in natty?
<seb128> it's not supposed to since unity has its own bar
<seb128> bar and launcher
<seb128> you can pick the GNOME classic session in gdm if you want a GNOME session
<geser> what will auto-login pick?
<seb128> whatever you selected in gdmsetup
<seb128> default is unity
<seb128> did you desactive unity in ccsm?
<geser> I've no compiz or unity installed (I'm using the free radeon driver)
<seb128> you are uptodate with compiz?
<seb128> oh, it's not installed
<seb128> hum, I guess that's a bug then
<seb128> not sure we considered the case where it's not installed
<didrocks> what unity with no compiz?
<seb128> it does the fallbacking correctly when installed
 * didrocks checks the package
<seb128> didrocks, no, he doesn't have unity or compiz
<didrocks> oh "or"
<geser> would compiz or unity work without the non-free ATI driver?
<didrocks> ok, yeah, that's written that won't work for A1
<didrocks> in the TechnicalOverview
<seb128> geser, they should
<didrocks> will get fixed for A2
<Sarvatt> geser: as long as you don't have a HD 6xxx series it would yeah
<geser> then I'll try it out; I've an older HD 3870
<lifeless> cyphermox: hi
<lifeless> Sarvatt: and hi - https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/modemmanager/+bug/683996 - sometimes it finds the right port, sometimes it doesn't : I've put a log showing the different probe activity in the bug.
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 683996 in modemmanager (Ubuntu) "NO CARRIER error vodafone K3571-Z ZTE 3g modem (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,New]
<lifeless> sometimes is clearly better than never though :)
<cyphermox> lifeless, thanks. I'll get to the fixes you need soon, right now I'm tackling some other issues in NM
<cyphermox> definitely something I want to commit to the packaging branch today :)
<cyphermox> if it's not always working there is probably another rule somewhere that break the detection
<cyphermox> lifeless, ^
<cyphermox> though it could be something straight in the zte / option plugin in MM code
<lifeless> yeah
<lifeless> the port != -1 assertion seems an interesting thing to poke into
<cyphermox> yep
<pitti> dpm: seems there wasn't actually a maverick export since a week -- https://translations.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/maverick/+language-packs has the most recent export on 1124, which is in the PPA already
 * pitti -> off again (just a quick drive-by)
<dpm> pitti, bummer - thanks for the heads up!, I'll talk to the Launchpad guys tomorrow
<dpm> I'll request a full export
<geser> does compiz work on a dual-screen setup (with fglrx)?
<dobey> geser: youtube would suggest so, but i have a hard time getting it to work right on one screen right now :(
<geser> that would match my expierence: I've been using the free radeon driver till now and wanted to try unity (with fglrx) but without much success; I'm back to the radeon driver for now
<dobey> geser: i think compiz itself is having issues atm in narwhal. at least, it is simply segfaulting on me when i try to run it now. not sure if it's compiz or the drivers, but it is pain. i'm on nvidia though
<cyphermox> lifeless, did you end up installing that bcm package from betavine?
<geser> dobey: it segfaults for me too
<lifeless> cyphermox: no
<lifeless> cyphermox: hell no
<lifeless> cyphermox: I just poked around at the code
<cyphermox> hehe ;)
<lifeless> cyphermox: there's other stuff in rev 608
<cyphermox> alright, and when you added the udev rules, did you use MM_ZTE_PORT_TYPE or just MM_PORT_TYPE?
<lifeless> I just copied their lines
<lifeless> as I put in the bug description
<cyphermox> ah, I misread then
<lifeless> # K3570-Z
<lifeless> ATTRS{idVendor}=="19d2", ATTRS{idProduct}=="1008", ENV{.MM_USBIFNUM}=="03", ENV{ID_MM_PORT_TYPE_MODEM}="1"
<lifeless> ATTRS{idVendor}=="19d2", ATTRS{idProduct}=="1008", ENV{.MM_USBIFNUM}=="01", ENV{ID_MM_PORT_TYPE_AUX}="1"
<lifeless> # K3571-Z
<lifeless> ATTRS{idVendor}=="19d2", ATTRS{idProduct}=="1010", ENV{.MM_USBIFNUM}=="03", ENV{ID_MM_PORT_TYPE_MODEM}="1"
<lifeless> ATTRS{idVendor}=="19d2", ATTRS{idProduct}=="1010", ENV{.MM_USBIFNUM}=="01", ENV{ID_MM_PORT_TYPE_AUX}="1"
<lifeless> oh, I see - we have a tweaked name
<lifeless> testing
<lifeless> that worked
<lifeless> I've noted that in the bug description - thanks.
<cyphermox> lifeless, seems all good for now?
<lifeless> yeah it didn't do all the crazy probing
<lifeless> its still not perfect
<lifeless> bit that may be mm in general
<cyphermox> ok. I'll start to prepare these changes
<lifeless> I've added a log with the _ZTE in the rules so you can see if there is anything odd remaining
<cyphermox> ok, great
<kiwinote> mvo: thanks for the merge - I pushed another fix a few seconds ago - it *should* work nicely, but it would be great if you could test it
<mvo> kiwinote: thanks, will do
<dobey> geser: hrmm, after latest updates to narwhal, compiz is back, though my settings got smashed AGAIN :-/
<mvo> kiwinote: it looks fine
<mvo> kiwinote: thanks :)
<kiwinote> mvo: sweet, thanks :)
<bcurtiswx_> i have a diff error of expected [ +-] at start of line 150 of diff
<bcurtiswx_> what should I be looking for to fix that?
<bcurtiswx_> patch: **** malformed patch at line 150: @@ -26,6 +28,7 @@
<bcurtiswx_> that @@ section looks like the rest of them (as far as characters being in the right places
<micahg> bcurtiswx_: are you manually editing the diff?
<bcurtiswx_> yes
<bcurtiswx_> micahg, ^^
<micahg> bcurtiswx_: don't do that :P
<micahg> bcurtiswx_: check to make sure the offsets add up including what's above the patch
<bcurtiswx_> micahg, that confuses me
<micahg> bcurtiswx_: if you have multiple patches for the same file (not in the same file), you need to make sure the later patches are offset based on changes you make in earlier patches
<geser> bcurtiswx_: be carefull when editing patches, especially when adding or removing lines
<bcurtiswx_> is there a better way to go about editing them.. it's just been adding and removing lines that are or aren't there anymore so far..
<micahg> bcurtiswx_: edit-patch
<micahg> if it's quilt based, use the quilt tools
<geser> bcurtiswx_: removing whole chunks is safe; if you add or remove lines don't forget to also update the numbers in the @@ line for that chunk
<bcurtiswx_> geser, the quilt push -f shows offsets and aftee i've fixed lines i refresh the patch
<bcurtiswx_> after*
<bcurtiswx_> i am using quilt
<bcurtiswx_> thats how seb128 has taught me so far.. lol
<geser> that the better way than manually editing patch files
<bcurtiswx_> i quilt push -f until one fails.. go in and edit (add remove lines) until its fixed.. then refresh the patch
<bcurtiswx_> are there more tools past that , that I should be using ?
<hallyn_> I like the screen consolidation of having the terminal menubar up top.  However, with the new unity floating desktop, that can make it hard to get up to the terminal menubar, bc if the cursor goes over say a firefox on the way to the top of the screen, you lose the menubar at top.
<hallyn_> just curious, has that been discussed?
<bcurtiswx_> geser, so like @@ -26,6 +28,7 @@  what do each of those stand for
<bcurtiswx_> 26 is the line number of where the patch _should_ start
<bcurtiswx_> the ,6 i don't know
<bcurtiswx_> column number?
<geser> no, the chunk spans 6 lines (in the "original" file)
<geser> and in the "patched" file the chunk starts at line 28 and covers 7 lines
<bcurtiswx_> geser, much more understood now.. thx :)
<bcurtiswx_> seb128, i can't install nautilus-sendto and i need it for the new empathy
<bcurtiswx_> whats the command line call to bring up sound preferences.. the GUI isn't working
<cyphermox> hallyn_, do you use mouse-over focus?
<hallyn_> hm, yes i do
<hallyn_> (though it mostly doesn't seem to work right now - i still have to click a window befor i can click its button)
<cyphermox> hallyn_, that's probably why you're having issues, I don't think that has use case has been thought about so much.
<cyphermox> hallyn_, please, open a bug about it, I'm sure there is some way to work around that
<hallyn_> cyphermox: against what project?
<cyphermox> hallyn_, I'd say unity. not too sure :/
<hallyn_> thanks
<KwikkSilva> hey all
<KwikkSilva> I managed to get the ASUS N13 Wirless N adapter working on my machine - it only works at 54g though... any ideas? I'v ebeen al through the forums
<cyphermox> KwikkSilva, you should ask on #ubuntu. that said, I suspect the driver may not support N yet.
<KwikkSilva> thats what i thought.. is there any N-capable card you could recommend?
<cyphermox> I don't have enough experience with N hardware to recommend any
<jcastro> do we have a page that outlines the GNOME SRU process?
<jcastro> or does the generic SRU page cover it?
<robert_ancell> jcastro, I've never found a document that explicitly says it
<andersk> oddentity points out in bug 336932 that you can reveal the contents of any Ubuntu userâs locked screen just by plugging in a USB memory stick.
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 336932 in compiz (Ubuntu) "New windows cause panels to be raised above fullscreen applications (e.g. screensaver) (affects: 3) (dups: 1) (heat: 22)" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/336932
<andersk> This seems like a very serious privacy breach.
#ubuntu-desktop 2010-12-03
 * TheMuso finally works out that the unity panel is drawn by unity/nux, and the panel service only takes care of showing gtk elements when the correct region is clicked for an indicator/menu...
<RAOF> That seems slightly odd, but ok :)
<TheMuso> RAOF: You're telling me.
<RAOF> I guess that probably makes a11y that little bit more difficult.
<TheMuso> Yeah, particularly when widget parents and children need to be considered.
<TheMuso> Menus are app specific, but visuall exist outside the app.
<TheMuso> visually exist
<TheMuso> So does one include the menus in the application hierarchy, or the panel hierarchy? :)
<TheMuso> I personally think menus should be a part of the application hierarchy, which is technically possible. The menus can be known to be a part of the app, so far as accessibility is concerned, yet visually exist outside the app window.
<TheMuso> But there is still the issue of the indicators and what parent they belong to.
<RAOF> I guess if you were only concerned with 100% blind a11y that would be the obvious answer.
<TheMuso> THis is true.
<pitti> Good morning
<cdbs> Good morning pitti
<pitti> kenvandine: please have a look at bug 627744; we mustn't fix stuff in SRUs and not fix it in the devel release
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 627744 in tomboy (Ubuntu Natty) (and 5 other projects) "Tomboy note names are blank in the Application Indicator fallback menu (affects: 17) (dups: 2) (heat: 114)" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/627744
<hyperair> dobey: pigng
<hyperair> *ping
<didrocks> good morning
<pitti> bonjour didrocks
<didrocks> hey pitti :)
<dpm> hi pitti, good morning!, just a FYI, I'm trying to find out what happened with the missing maverick langpack export with the LP guys now
<pitti> dpm: thanks
<pitti> and good morning!
<dpm> :-)
<dpm> pitti, I'll be away until Wed (long Bank Holiday in Spain \o/), so once we've figured it out, we might just want to delay the copy to -proposed and the call for testing for a week and wait for the normally scheduled export + langpack rather to generate a one-off export before
<dpm> rather than
<asac> mvo: can i disable update-manager to pop up without me asking for it?
<asac> i want to keep it for dist-upgrades etc., but I dont want it to be used anymore
<mvo> asac: you can use a gcofn key: /apps/update-notifier/auto_launch
<mvo> asac: a lot of people complain about it
<cdbs> Can someone kindly make an ubuntugtk3 branch of ~ubuntu-desktop/nautilus-sendto/ubuntu ?
<cdbs> I have updated the package successfully to version 2.90.0 (which is latest upstream)
<asac> mvo: it hangs all the time man ;)
<asac> mvo: everytime i see the window its hanging!!!!
<asac> ;)
<asac> mvo: if you need any info for that let me know
<asac> auto launch disabled. thanks mvo
<mvo> asac: the update-manager window is hanging? on arm?
<mvo> asac: hanging in what way? compiz making it gray?
<asac> mvo: on my super old lenovo x61s
<asac> mvo: yes ... not reacting ... grey and under unity i cannot close it even ... e.g. killall ftw
<mvo> asac: no (maybe hidden) dialog or anything like this? mav or natty?
<asac> mvo: i think it happens when i dont see the window and run apt-get update in the back ... but sometimes even without it if dont notice (guess when cron does apt-get update)
<asac> mvo: i am maverick nowadays ;)
<mvo> asac: if it happens next time, could you strace it?
<asac> sure
<mvo> asac: just to get a idea what is going on
<asac> now its disabled though
<asac> let me start it so its running
<asac> ok its running ... will come back when it see it again ;)
<mvo> thanks
<cdbs> mvo: Could you make an ubuntugtk3 branch of lp:~ubuntu-desktop/nautilus-sendto/ubuntu ? Thanks!
<pitti> mvo: do you plan to do an app-install-data upload for natty?
<mvo> pitti: yes, the extraction is finished, I was reviewing it this morning, then pycompile crashed on me and distracted me
<mvo> pitti: but a new version will be in today
<pitti> ah, ok; just wondered for alpha-1
 * pitti hugs mvo
<mvo> yeah, I'm late
<pitti> don't worry, no biggie
 * mvo nods
<pitti> mvo: btw, the software-center startup speed spec has a WI "automatically run startup time test on reference hardware: TODO"
<pitti> mvo: this might already have been done?
<pitti> I thought I saw a chart somewhere
<mvo> its "kind of" funny, the extractor was set to dapper (to generate some statistics), so it had to do a full extraction again
<pitti> mvo: ah, I guess that takes a while -- it has to unpack the entire archive?
<mvo> pitti: yeah, its mostly done, just the "automate it" part is missing, i.e. setup cron and upload automatically
<mvo> pitti: yeah, exactly. it takes ~5h or so (last I checked)
<pitti> ah, ok
<pitti> thanks!
<mvo> pitti: lots of room for improvement, especially *if* it could be interegrated with soyuz
<mvo> speaking of wich, could we make the binarypkgmangler extract the changelogs during build and store them somewhere for e.g. rsync?
<mvo> so that changelogs.ubuntu.com could just rsync them instead of doing a extraction dance on the resulting debs (once they hit the mirror)?
<pitti> mvo: extraction and adding to the .changes is not a problem
<pitti> it alraedy does that for _translations.tar.gz etc.
<pitti> but it needs soyuz support
<pitti> otherwise it'll just see the "changelog" entry and say "meh?" and probably fall over
<mvo> ok, good to know. where are those files stored afterwards?
<pitti> mvo: in the librarian; you can get to them via the API
<pitti> mvo: might be worth asking bigjools about this
<pitti> perhaps we can "just do" this
<mvo> ok, I think last I talked about this with him he was concerned about the amount of files
<mvo> but I guess if we is not him there is a good chance it gets done ;)
<mvo> its sounds not too compilicated
<pitti> -EPARSE
<pitti> mvo: no, if we can just add it to the .changes, it's easy to do; let me know when/if I should do that
<mvo> ok, so its "just" soyuz support that is needed and API
<mvo> to extract them afterwards
<pitti> the API should be there already (mostly)
<mvo> thanks pitti
<mvo> cool
<pitti> mvo: we had a similar case for the "static translations"
<pitti> mvo: i. e. extracting translated gnome help files into a tarball, which langpack-o-matic then picks up from soyuz
<pitti> istrorelease.getPackageUploads(created_since_date="XXXX-XX-XX", custom_type='raw-translations-static')
<pitti> s/^/d/
<pitti> mvo: ^ the getPackageUploads() call will probably accept any kind of custom_type that you add to the .changes with dpkg-distaddfile
<pitti> but I don't know what soyuz checks there; it had been quite picky in the past at least
<pitti> mvo: so we could add a new type raw-app-data and bundle icon, .desktop, etc. in a new tarball
<pitti> mvo: oh, changelogs, not app data
<pitti> but same thing
<mvo> yeah, same thing
<pitti> mvo: we could probably bundle changelogs, copyright, *.desktop and /icons/* in a tarball
 * mvo nods
<pitti> kenvandine: I'm a bit confused about the bzr for libdbusmenu; Vcs-Bzr: says https://code.launchpad.net/~dbusmenu-team/dbusmenu/ubuntu, but that seems to be an upstream PPA branch and is more recent than natty; are we using lp:ubuntu/libdbusmenu for the actual Ubuntu packagee?
<pitti> kenvandine: at least it seems that seb128 committed into this
<seb128> hey
<didrocks> salut seb128
<seb128> didrocks, lut
<seb128> how are things going today?
<didrocks> seb128: come on, your day is off! :)
<didrocks> quit well actually, not very busy/"pingy" for me :)
 * Nafallo turns sebs day back on
<seb128> didrocks, hey, I just had a quick glance on emails and irc logs
<seb128> noticed that pitti seems to be on an upload mania against gir-repository for some reason
<didrocks> hehe, right :)
<pitti> hey seb128, I thought you were on holidays? :-)
<seb128> pitti, is there any reason to hurry and do upload for those?
<seb128> like gnome-games was pending work on the new version
<Nafallo> seb128: yeah. he thought you were on holidays ;-)
<pitti> seb128: I was on an upload mania for dropping changelogs anyway, and I want to get rid of that package
<seb128> dx things are pending on updates as well
<pitti> seb128: I didn't upload dbusmenu or any DX stuff
<seb128> well I saw in the IRC log you were asking about it :p
<pitti> seb128: right, but I just added the bug ref to bzr
<seb128> ok
<pitti> seb128: I mostly dealt with stuff nobody else wanted to anyway, like gupnp-av
<seb128> I don't think it's an issue to wait a few extra days for uploads
<seb128> like gnome-games
<pitti> seb128: right, gnome-games was perhaps not necessary
<seb128> but if you want to do those...
<seb128> I just dislike having to download updates daily on my not so fast internet for small reasons ;-)
<seb128> we really need apt to handle binaries deltas ;-)
<pitti> seb128: FYI, I'm on holiday on Monday
<pitti> travelling back to Dresden
<seb128> pitti, ok, enjoy your 3 days we then :-)
<pitti> I will!
<seb128> we -> WE
<pitti> Need to get 13.3 MB of archives.
<pitti> After this operation, 9849 kB disk space will be freed.
<pitti> now, that's not bad for a morning's work :)
<seb128> ;-)
<pitti> this was again for packages which will mostly not be resynced during natty anyway
<seb128> I often get some of those because local builds are replacing by ones which have translations etc stripped
<seb128> replaced
<seb128> I wondering a few times why it was freeing space when there was no real changes before figured that was the mangler work ;-)
<pitti> I want to do a few rebuilds every week, to avoid a huge hit
<pitti> but I still need to keep going with those
<seb128> is there many sources on the CD not rebuilt yet?
<pitti> quite a few; look at /usr/share/doc/*/change*
<pitti> I am doing an ls -lSr and work from the biggest ones
<seb128> indeed
<pitti> which is of course mostly OO.o now
<pitti> rebuilding OO.o would win us > 8 MB compressed
<pitti> but I don't want to touch it really
<pitti> (7 MB for dropping the NBS libicu42, 1.5 MB for changelogs)
<seb128> pitti, oh come on, you know you want to take over this one ;-)
<Nafallo> lol. at least I'm not the only troll in this channel :-P
<seb128> ok, I was just passing by, going back to my holiday day
<seb128> have a nice we everybody
<seb128> see you next week :-)
<dpm> hi pitti, it's langpack questions day today! :) I was wondering if you had had the chance to activate the natty langpack builds in langpack-o-matic?
<pitti> dpm: ah, if we have a full export, I can build them
<pitti> seems we do
<pitti> dpm: sure, I'll start it
<dpm> pitti, yeah -> https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/natty/+language-packs - thanks!
<pitti> dpm: building now; I want to test the first ones locally before I actually upload them
<dpm> pitti, ok. Thanks. Notice that the first ones will not contain FF translations. chrisccoulson, jtv and I have been in touch to see how we can get them into LP (the upstream xpi langpack packaging has changed a bit)
<pitti> dpm: ah, ok; that was my main concern, since a mismatch tends to break Firefox completely
<chrisccoulson> pitti - it shouldn't break it hopefully, as the current language packs should just fail the compatibility check
<dpm> pitti, ah, actually: the export might contain the old (3.6) ones
<chrisccoulson> although, some users will disable the compatibility check to get extensions to work
<pitti> chrisccoulson: right; I mean once they are marked compatible
<chrisccoulson> they shouldn't get marked compatible yet until we've imported the new template in to LP
<chrisccoulson> for users who disable the compatibility check, the current language packs will probably have already destroyed their firefox install ;)
<chrisccoulson> pitti - we just need to check that the new language packs have the current maxVersion in their install.rdf files
<dpm> chrisccoulson, pitti, asac, after having had a call with Chris and jtv, I renamed the natty template from firefox-3.6 to firefox. I also changed the domain name in Launchpad from 'firefox-3.6' to 'firefox'. I'm not sure if this makes a difference in the version put in the language packs (i.e. if po2xpi uses that info), but it's something I thought I should mention just in case
<dpm> (the translation domain name part)
<pitti> dpm: I don't know, I'ma fraid
<chrisccoulson> dpm - i think po2xpi gets the install.rdf from the template uploaded from the firefox source package
<chrisccoulson> i might be wrong though
<chrisccoulson> and there's no new template after i disabled that in the firefox source package
<dpm> pitti, no worries, just mentioning as a heds up, and in case any of you knew
<dpm> ok
<pitti> hey mterry
<nessita> hi all!
<kenvandine> pitti, i'll get that tomboy patch fixed and uploaded asap
<kenvandine> guess it is a good reason to upload to devel first :)
<kenvandine> looks like the fix was reverted in 1.5.2 when it was synced from debian
<kenvandine> while the fix was still in -proposed
<pitti> kenvandine: ah, thanks; I had hoped it was in 1.5.2
<pitti> kenvandine: good morning!
<kenvandine> :)
<kenvandine> good afternoon :)
<kenvandine> ugh... of course it FTBFS now... /me dives in
<didrocks> hey mterry, nessita, kenvandine :)
<kenvandine> he didrocks
<nessita> didrocks: hey there, I don't want to be a PITA (though I might already be :-P), but I was wondering about the u1cp package... since is still on the NEW queue. Do I need to chase seb instead? can I ask some other package admin?
<didrocks> nessita: it's in archive admin hands, not mine :)
<didrocks> nessita: so seb or pitti maybe ;)
<nessita> ah! pitti! :-D
<pitti> hey nessita
<pitti> we have daily archive admins..
<pitti> can you please poke those instead? :-)
<pitti> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArchiveAdministration#Archive%20days
<pitti> jdstrand today
<nessita> pitti: bien sur!
<mterry> hi pitti and didrocks.  :)
<didrocks> nessita speaks in french to pittiâ¦ am I missing something or it's not just me to be terribly confused? :)
<pitti> didrocks: ah, it's French?
<pitti> I had expected it to be Spanish :)
<didrocks> pitti: it's "bien sÃ»r", but I doubt that to be Spanish :)
<nessita> didrocks: in spanish, literally, means "good south". But I meant the french phrase, "of course"
<nessita> didrocks: I like french. I speak 2 or 3 words in french a day
<nessita> mostly "bien sur", "ca va", "je vous re merci"
<didrocks> :)
<didrocks> (really, I'm sure one day we will have french as the official #ubuntu-desktop language :))
<bcurtiswx_> anyone using the desktop gtk3 PPA, do you have nautilus-sendto installed?
<bcurtiswx_> kenvandine, are you using the desktop gtk3 ppa ?
<kenvandine> nope
<bcurtiswx_> k thx
<bcurtiswx_> is seb128 off today?
<cyphermox> hellp
<cyphermox> *hello
<cyphermox> bcurtiswx, yes, he is
<bcurtiswx_> cyphermox, thx
<cyphermox> bcurtiswx, can I help you out with something ?
<bcurtiswx_> empathy 2.91.3 depends on nautilus-sendto and the desktop PPA deoesn't have it for 2.91.x so i can't install nautilus-sendto without complete breakage
<bcurtiswx_> i was hoping i could get someone to get that into the PPA
<cyphermox> bcurtiswx, I can certainly prepare the package, though I'll need help to upload it to the ppa :)
<bcurtiswx_> kenvandine, would you be able to put nautilus-sendto in the gtk3 PPA ?
<didrocks> hum, does anyone knows why setting in the commit log "LP: #XXXX" doesn't anymore add "--fixes lp:XXXX"?
<cyphermox> didrocks, even with (LP: #xxxx) ?
<cyphermox> it worked for me yesterday
<pitti> didrocks: hm, last time I checked it worked
<pitti> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/natty/gupnp-av/natty/revision/13
<pitti> worked for me a couple of hours ago
<pitti> plain "debcommit"
<didrocks> waow, I even tried --fixes lp:XXXX and it doesn't work :/
<didrocks> something is broken locally then
<didrocks> bzr launchpad-login worksâ¦
<didrocks> bzr log shows it, isn't it?
<pitti> didrocks: yes, bzr log mentions it
<didrocks> hum, I moved .bazaar as wellâ¦
<bcurtiswx_> hmm seems there's an ubuntugtk3 nautilus-sendto already but a apt-cache policy nautilus-sendto doesn't show it
<bcurtiswx_> the build failed on my machine due to a standards version mismatch.. where's that stored?
<didrocks> james_w: hey, do you have any idea what can be the cause? (seems I'm uptodate bzr-wise) ^^
<cyphermox> bcurtiswx, debian/control.
<bcurtiswx_> cyphermox, is there a specific thing i have to do to upgrade from 3.8.4 to 3.9.1 other than editing the file...
<cyphermox> bcurtiswx, I don't recall off the top of my head, sorry ;) usually what you can do is try to build and fix lintian warnings as they come up
<bcurtiswx_> didrocks, do you know ^^ ?
<bcurtiswx_> the standards version
<didrocks> bcurtiswx_: no, just check if lintian is complaining about something after building
<bcurtiswx_> didrocks, W: nautilus-sendto source: out-of-date-standards-version 3.8.4 (current is 3.9.1)  thats all (even after editing the file) :-\
<cyphermox> bcurtiswx, that usually doesn't fail the build though
<didrocks> bcurtiswx_: is there a debian/control and debian/control.in ?
<cyphermox> ohh
<bcurtiswx_> didrocks, yes.. edited as well. thx :D
<didrocks> yw :)
<james_w> didrocks, bonjour, --fixes lp:something doesn't work?
<bcurtiswx_> hmm, rodrigo_ (who's not here) has a changelog already for nautilus-sendto, but has it as unreleased.  anyone know why ?
<bcurtiswx_> in the desktop GTK3 PAP
<bcurtiswx_> PPA*
<didrocks> james_w: no, it doesn't here, I tried to remove ~/.bazaar as well without any success
<james_w> didrocks, no result, or an error?
<didrocks> james_w: no result
<james_w> didrocks, hmm, bzr --version, and "bzr plugins -v | grep launchpad"?
<didrocks> james_w: http://paste.ubuntu.com/539424/
<james_w> didrocks, no idea, sorry, I suggest you file a bug
<didrocks> james_w: ok, no worry, I will, thanks :)
<bcurtiswx_> would someone be able to add https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~bcurtiswx/ubuntu/natty/nautilus-sendto/nautilus-sendto-2.90.0/+merge/42630 to the GTK3 PPA ?
<bcurtiswx_> hmm, wait
<bcurtiswx_> nautilus conflicts with nautilus-sendto :-\  how?
<fagan> the nm-applet is taking up 500MB of ram at the moment :-/
<cyphermox> fagan, I know :/
<cyphermox> working on it still
<fagan> yeah I have 4 GB in this computer though so its ok :)
<cyphermox> hehe
<cyphermox> bcurtiswx, btw, major changes in nautilus 2.91.1: * Move the nautilus-sendto extension module in-tree
<bcurtiswx_> idk what in-tree means :-\
<cyphermox> bcurtiswx, that's in nautilus' NEWS file, and why it now conflicts
<cyphermox> means it was integrated into nautilus proper
<cyphermox> you should instead update empathy to not require nautilus-sendto, but perhaps nautilus >= 2.91.1
<bcurtiswx_> cassidy,  ^^
<cassidy> bcurtiswx_, can you file a bug please ?
<cyphermox> fagan, I was able to reduce the number of X errors nm-applet triggers to just 2 batches, but I'm not sure it will fix the leaks
<bcurtiswx_> cassidy, sure.  in the mean time i'll changelog a bump on the depends to 2.91.1 for 2.91.3 and see if it build OK
<bcurtiswx_> to nautilus 2.91.1 *
<bcurtiswx_> cassidy, https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=636377
<ubot2> Gnome bug 636377 in General "Bump nautilus dep to >2.91.1 as -sendto is now in-tree" [Normal,Unconfirmed]
<pitti> chrisccoulson: I just spotted the nspluginwrapper karmic SRU you uploaded in September, for bug 410407
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 410407 in nspluginwrapper (Fedora) (and 17 other projects) "Adobe Flash Player does not respond to mouse clicks [READ DESCRIPTION] (affects: 1023) (dups: 58) (heat: 4366)" [Unknown,Unknown] https://launchpad.net/bugs/410407
<pitti> chrisccoulson: it was declined for Karmic; is that upload still actually relevant
<pitti> ?
<chrisccoulson> pitti - oh, i'd forgotten about that
<chrisccoulson> yeah, the upload is relevant for karmic too
<pitti> ok
<didrocks> asac: what's the trick with ubuntu-mir? :p
<didrocks> seems I'm an innocent victim :)
<pitti> dpm: natty langpacks working fine for me, uploading now
<dpm> pitti, \o/ thanks
<pitti> dpm: the gnome ones will take quite a bit more time to build, FTR, due to the png compression
<pitti> but at the same time they are quite a bit smaller now :)
<dpm> ok, sounds good!
<kenvandine> pitti, can you look at the MIR for ubuntu-geoip? bug 676510
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 676510 in ubuntu-geoip (Ubuntu) "[MIR] ubuntu-geoip (affects: 1) (heat: 255)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/676510
<kenvandine> i want to upload indicator-datetime today which depends on it
<pitti> kenvandine: I'm in meeting now; and not in ~ubuntu-mir any more :)
<kenvandine> oh... didn't know that
<kenvandine> ok
<kenvandine> any suggestions who to poke about it?
<asac> didrocks: did doko add you? ;)
<pitti> kenvandine: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mir/+members :)
<didrocks> asac: yeah, I was quite surprised! it's mean :)
<pitti> oh, didrocks is a MIR reviewer now?
<kenvandine> woot... didrocks can you look at ubuntu-geoip?
<didrocks> kenvandine: hum, "no" :)
<didrocks> well, not in the short time :)
<asac> didrocks: drop in the hot and cold water approach ;)
<kenvandine> added 3 hours ago... woot
<kenvandine> oh, mterry is a MIR reviewer too
<kenvandine> mterry, got a few minutes to look at ubuntu-geoip?
<mterry> kenvandine, I can do it today, but I have a meeting shortly, so can't be right now
<kenvandine> sure
<kenvandine> today is good enough :)
<kenvandine> anxious to get indicator-datetime off my plate :)
<didrocks> heeee, and the banshee MIR? :)
<didrocks> asac: don't go away like that :p
<kenvandine> but i am still blocked on tedg getting me an actual tarball :)
<tedg> kenvandine, Sorry getting distracted :(
<kenvandine> yeah, i am getting distracted from appindicator too
<kenvandine> :-D
<asac> didrocks: you want to start your duties before monday? ;)
<didrocks> asac: you mean, the banshee MIR is on my plate? now :)
<asac> lol
<didrocks> not a nice gift :p
<didrocks> and I'm biased, I can't review it :p
<asac> didrocks: right. so let me look
<kenvandine> haha
<didrocks> \o/
<didrocks> thanks asac
<asac> didrocks: so ... monday 9am?
<asac> i scheduled a talk on mumble there
<asac> i have to run on another call now etc.
<asac> and on weekend i want to stay off
<didrocks> asac: sure, no worry :)
<asac> sure so enjoy your MIR free time ;)
<didrocks> asac: just send me an invite
<didrocks> one week-end \o/
<didrocks> and then, the hell begins :)
<asac> didrocks: i sent, did you receive?
 * kenvandine -> lunch
<didrocks> asac: received, perfect, thanks!
<mvo> mpt: thanks for s-c commit
<mvo> pitti: when you have time after the meeting, could you quickly tell me why msttcorefonts was rejected?
<pitti> mvo: I said so in the bug
<pitti> mvo: it was the same version as the maverick update
<mvo> pitti: meh, right. thanks for spotting this
<pitti> mvo: well, LP did :)
<mvo> thanks LP
<mvo> pitti: I created a LP lib based script for the changelogs extraction now, if that works well, I don't think we need a custom upload format (at least for changelogs)
<pitti> mvo: nice, you take the data from +changelog ?
<mvo> pitti: no, when I tried this for the kernel it oopsed
<mvo> pitti: I use the sourceUriUrls()
<pitti> good night everyone
<pitti> I'll be on holiday on Monday
<didrocks> see you pitti!
<kenvandine> tedg, uhoh... doko uploaded indicator-application to natty to force a rebuild with python 2.7... and of course it doesn't build on natty
<mterry> kenvandine, approved ubuntu-geoip
<kenvandine> mterry, woot... thx!
<kenvandine> ok tedg, now i am waiting on indicator-datetime
<tedg> kenvandine, Did the python bindings fail?  Uhg.
<kenvandine> no... not that
<tedg> kenvandine, I'm working on that tarball as we... speak?
<kenvandine> the gir problem i hit yesterday
<kenvandine> that problem wasn't related to making it build for gtk3
<kenvandine> it just doesn't build on natty
<kenvandine> although i wouldn't be surprised if it fails building for python 2.7 too :)
<kenvandine> The GObject name 'AppIndicator' isn't compatibile
<kenvandine> with the configured identifier prefixes:
<kenvandine>   ['AppIndicator']
<kenvandine> The class would have no name.
<tedg> kenvandine, Ah, okay.  Hmph.
<kenvandine> that's the build failure
<tedg> kenvandine, Tell doko just to use Maverick -- it's WAY better ;)
<kenvandine> still think that is because appindicator doesn't have a namespace?
<kenvandine> haha
<tedg> That's my guess... though I couldn't get my Natty test drive to work yesterday :(
<kenvandine> so why doesn't appindicator have a namepsace?
<kenvandine> or even a namespace
<tedg> kenvandine, Well, what would it be?
<kenvandine> :-D
<tedg> kenvandine, It seems unfair to take the namespace "App" :)
<kenvandine> hehe :)
<kenvandine> appindicator ?
<tedg> Then all the functions would have to be appindicator_indicator_foo()
<kenvandine> yeah, so?
<tedg> I don't like to type that much :)
<kenvandine> your a C guy, you like lots of typing :)
<tedg> See, we solve this by not having tons of namespaces :)
<kenvandine> well the functions are named app_indicator_foo now
 * kenvandine does a big sed on tedg's code
<kenvandine> ugh... api breakage
<didrocks> ok, week-end time now!
<didrocks> see you guys
<hakermania> hello all, I have packaged my application for REVU, but I need to know how exactly the image of the package will be defined. I've heard about debian.screenshots.net but (of course) my package cannot be found in http://screenshots.debian.net/upload because REVU hasn't accepted it yet! What's the process I have to follow?
<tedg> kenvandine, FIRE IN THE HOLE!  Merge request en route.
<kenvandine> woot
<czajkowski> kenvandine: you'll be happy to know Gwibber runs faster on unity than my regular desktop version :s
<kenvandine> :)
<czajkowski> kenvandine: it hates my column layout for some unknown reason
<kenvandine> what about it?
<czajkowski> much slower and crashes on scrolling, but doesnt under unity. :(
<czajkowski> kenvandine: is this your sublte way of telling me to use unity ;)
 * kenvandine sends subliminal messages over the pond
<czajkowski> icey snowed in pond!
<czajkowski> heading to stuttgart on sunday and it's warmer there!
<kenvandine> mterry, whoops... geoclue needs an mir too... ubuntu-geoclue needs it
<kenvandine> mterry, mind reviewing that one?  once i file the mir bug?
<mterry> kenvandine, uh, I may not get to it today?  but I can do it this weekend
<kenvandine> ok, whenever
<kenvandine> sorry i missed that before
<kenvandine> been a  while since i had looked at that
<cyphermox> jasoncwarner, ping?
<jasoncwarner> cyphermox:
<jasoncwarner> hello
<cyphermox> hey :)
<jasoncwarner> afternoon!
<devildante> any way to build empathy on natty? apt-get build-dep seems to miss a lot of deps
<cyphermox> devildante, are you also using the rules from debian/rules to build it?
<devildante> cyphermox: I'm trying to build it straight from git
<cyphermox> devildante, you can check what configure complains about to find the missing deps?
<devildante> Requested 'folks >= 0.3.2' but version of Folks is 0.1.17
<devildante> Requested 'folks-telepathy >= 0.3.2' but version of Folks Telepathy support library is 0.1.17
<devildante> No package 'gsettings-desktop-schemas' found
<devildante> No package 'gtk+-3.0' found
<devildante> No package 'libcanberra-gtk3' found
<devildante> Requested 'libnotify >= 0.7.0' but version of libnotify is 0.5.0
<devildante> No package 'gcr-3' found
<cyphermox> devildante, not so fast ;)
<devildante> :p
 * Tm_T hints of paste.ubuntu.com
<devildante> Tm_T: yeah, sorry for noise
<cyphermox> devildante, some of those will already be available in the desktop team gnome-gtk3 builds, e.g. gtk+-3.0 and others. in fact, I think they're already uploaded too
<devildante> cyphermox: you mean the gnome3-builds PPA? already tested on my native install and didn't work :(
<devildante> about to try again on virtualized install though
<cyphermox> devildante, well, I don't think folks and folks-telepathy are up to date
<devildante> :-/
<devildante> let's also build them, then :p
<cyphermox> exactly ;)
<kenvandine> tedg, sent a merge proposal for which fixes the current build failures https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~ken-vandine/indicator-application/gi-build-fixes/+merge/42697
<kenvandine> doesn't include the with-gtk=3 stuff yet
<tedg> kenvandine, Cool
<kenvandine> i'll get to that later... now i need to fix the package so it builds
<tedg> kenvandine, I'll have to merge it at http://code.launchpad.net/libappindicator though :)
<kenvandine> failing with the multiple python versions now
<kenvandine> whatever floats your boat man :)
 * kenvandine calls it a day... later folks!
<tedg> 'night kenvandine!
<ebroder> I'm trying to hunt down a regression in...the X stack between Lucid and Maverick. I know that downgrading all of libdrm, libgl, the X server itself, and the Intel driver from Maverick's version to Lucid's fixes the issue I'm seeing, but...that's a lot of things with a lot of interdependencies to bisect across. Any tips?
<fta> still no panel on startup with metacity :P
<cyphermox> fta, classic desktop?
<fta> cyphermox, yes. i have to manually start it
<fta> cyphermox, but it messes up everything. apps launched from that panel appear on a random workspace
<fta> started 2 or 3 days ago
<cyphermox> heh, I can't remember if I had to kill gnome-panel again when I started with classic this morning
<cyphermox> I'll look at it tonight on a live session and fix it if I can
<fta> i'm currently with unity, but it breaks my workflow, so i'll quickly return to metacity
<cyphermox> fta, breaks your workflow?
<fta> cyphermox, can't do anything, my launchers are all gone, replaced by old launchers i haven't seen in years. no menu
<fta> a 24" almost empty panel
<cyphermox> ok
<cyphermox> well we can at least figure out how to import the launchers you have... where?
<fta> global menu unusable in follow focus mode
<fta> etc..
<cyphermox> oh right, follow focus, yeah that's not too great :/
<fta> it seems to ignore my default apps too
<cyphermox> fta, maybe as a first step, where are your launchers? in the panel?
<fta> yes
<cyphermox> ah, ok
<fta> i see grey question marks icons in unity
<cyphermox> oh
<cyphermox> they're imported but not with the icons?
<fta> seems so
<cyphermox> ah right
<cyphermox> icons were an issue as we tested a1, unity would crash in 20101201 because of it
#ubuntu-desktop 2010-12-04
<tualatrix> ?
 * vish just playing foosball with chrisccoulson on gcc bugs ;p 
<chrisccoulson> huh?
<vish> chrisccoulson: the about me bug... sent it back ;)
<peppefava> Hi to all. I was upgrading from 10.04 to 10.10 but my laptop battery went down so the installation did not ended up correctly. When rebooting, the system is not able to start correctly. No desktop, no icons... nothing. Starting in recovery mode is impossible too. Now I am running with live cd. What can I do to solve the problem? Thanks.
<vish> !support | peppefava
<ubot2> peppefava: The official ubuntu support channel is #ubuntu. Also see http://ubuntu.com/support and http://ubuntuforums.org
<mterry> kenvandine, you never filed a geoclue MIR?
<geser> either I'm too dumb for unity or it doesn't match my use-case or I've some misconfiguration somewhere: how can I start a second terminal from a launcher? how can I switch applications over the keyboard?
<hyperair> i assume alt+tab?
<vish> geser: second terminal is a problem now.
<hyperair> as for second terminal, try middle clicking or clicking with modifier keys. it might help. =p
<hyperair> vish: what? there really isn't a way?!
<geser> alt-tab doesn't work for me
<vish> hyperair: not from launcher
<vish> or atleast i havent found a way ;p
<hyperair> right click?
<hyperair> middle click?
<hyperair> at least in docky it's middle click
<vish> but we can Ctrl+alt+t another one
<hyperair> well yes, that works
<hyperair> but what about firefox
<vish> geser: alt+tab is slow, there is a bug about it..
<hyperair> you could have closed the browser window, but left the downloads window open.
<vish> geser: what do you have in /apps/metacity/global_keybindings/switch_windows , there was one bug where that got altered ?
<geser> disabled
<geser> but switching backwards work :)
<vish> geser: right, you need to have <Alt>Tab mentioned there
<geser> yes, adding <Alt>Tab into this field fixed it. Thanks for the hint
#ubuntu-desktop 2010-12-05
<bcurtiswx> do the open source ATI Radeon drivers support 3D ?
<charlie-tca> yes
<micahg> where do I get gnome tarballs from?
<hyperair> ftp.gnome.org?
<micahg> hyperair: thanks :)
<hyperair> np
<sle118> hello everyone
<sle118> is this the right place to ask for some technical assistance with gdm?
<sle118> I have a problem: I can get to a GUI with startx but not with /etc/init.d/gdm start
<sle118> anyoneÃ
<Sarvatt_> so http://cgit.freedesktop.org/pixman/commit/?id=1cc750ed92a936d84b47cac696aaffd226e1c02e is what is breaking notify-osd in xorg-edgers, will be a problem when we get pixman 0.20.0 in natty
<Sarvatt_> ah wait, better double check this bisect, the timeframe of when pixman broke notify-osd in the PPA matches up though
<Sarvatt_> yep thats really the bad commit, noted it on https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/notify-osd/+bug/654921
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 654921 in notify-osd (Ubuntu) "Black border in the notifications when effects are turned off (affects: 4) (heat: 24)" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<ricotz> gilir, hi, i saw you updated the elementary-icon-theme, i hope you can grab the new release to update it?
<ricotz> https://launchpad.net/elementaryicons/2.0/2.6
<gilir> ricotz, mr_pouit plans to do it next week, but if he doesn't have the time, I'll do it
<ricotz> gilir, ok, thank you
<RAOF> I wonder if evolution will actually close if I give it enough time...
<RAOF> Hah.  Not if it checks for new mail while shutting down.
<chrisccoulson> RAOF - yeah, i hate it when it does that
<chrisccoulson> it takes 10 minutes to close sometimes on my laptop
 * ajmitch doesn't seem to have those problems, but mostly uses it on lucid :)
<RAOF> chrisccoulson: I gave up after an hour :)
<chrisccoulson> RAOF - that's pretty bad
<RAOF> Yeah.  I'm filing a bug.
<ajmitch> strace show anything useful from that?
<RAOF> ajmitch: I didn't have it attached.  From watching the status bar, it looked like it was checking mail every 10 minutes and not *quite* finishing all the clean up before the next mail check triggered.
<ajmitch> 10 minutes to check & clean up is also a bit extreme
<RAOF> Yes.
#ubuntu-desktop 2011-11-28
<pitti> Good morning
<pitti> Sweetshark: upload with new version number; but as we have new libraries in precise it's not guaranteed to build
<pitti> Sweetshark: (but building against these new libs is the very point of this)
<didrocks> good morning
<pitti> hey didrocks
<rodrigo_> morning
<pitti> hey rodrigo_
<rodrigo_> hi pitti
<pitti> didrocks: where can I change the dash's "listen to music" button to open RB instead of banshee?
<didrocks> pitti: if your default music player is rhythmbox, it shold works
<didrocks> should*
<pitti> didrocks: well, what constitutes the "default" player?
<pitti> on today's images, when I click that button nothing happens
<didrocks> hum, weird
<pitti> actually, it does, it opens totem
<didrocks> what do you have in g-c-c ?
<didrocks> for sys info/default app
<didrocks> (for "Music")
<didrocks> hey rodrigo_
<pitti> didrocks: ah, it says "Movie Player"
<pitti> didrocks: so I'll fix it in control-center's default gsettings?
<didrocks> pitti: yeah, that should work, if not, just poke me :)
<pitti> eww -- Calendar:  [ gedit ]
<rodrigo_> hi didrocks
<didrocks> pitti: I guess that unity needs to be restarted though
<pitti> looks like a nice thing to fix for A1
<pitti> (isn't it great that we can deal with _this_ class of bugs for alpha-1? :-) )
 * pitti hugs https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/view/Precise%20Daily%20ISOs/
<didrocks> waow, looking nice.
<TheMuso> I'm not usually on the dev release this early. I feel this cycle is going to be a good one for general pollishing. :)
<TheMuso> Alpha 1 is often the absolute earliest I upgrade...
<pitti> TheMuso: we've been quite serious about "never break precise" so far
<TheMuso> Indeed.
<pitti> we had two cases of apt-get dist-upgrade failing for a particular package, but these cleared up with the next upgrade and didn't break anything important
<pitti> I don't remember http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/testing/precise_probs.html ever looking that great before a1 :)
<seb128> hey there
<rodrigo_> hey seb128
<rodrigo_> mvo, around?
<mvo> rodrigo_: yes
<seb128> hey rodrigo_
<seb128> hey mvo
<seb128> how is everybody?
<rodrigo_> mvo, did you see my updated merge proposal on Friday? -> https://code.launchpad.net/~rodrigo-moya/system-service/new-interfaces/+merge/83308
<mvo> rodrigo_: I did, I have a look in a few minutes (left early friday)
<mvo> hey seb128!
<rodrigo_> mvo, ok, just wanted to make sure you saw it, so no hurry :)
<mvo> thanks!
<seb128> mvo, left early on friday? slacker!
<seb128> ;-)
<rodrigo_> seb128, I sent him my branch at 11PM Friday, and he was still working at that time, thru the weekend afaik :)
<seb128> lol
<seb128> yeah yeah, I believe you :p
<rodrigo_> :)
<seb128> rodrigo_, don't worry I'm just teasing mvo, he called me slacker for having friday off ;-)
<rodrigo_> heh
<chrisccoulson> good morning everyone
<seb128> hey chrisccoulson, how are you?
<pitti> hey seb128, morning chrisccoulson; how are you?
<seb128> pitti, hey, I'm good thanks, how are you?
<mvo> seb128: *pfff* ;)
<pitti> seb128: quite fine, thanks! had a nice weekend, a friend from Zurich came to visit
<chrisccoulson> hi seb128, pitti. i'm good thanks, how are you?
<pitti> my former flatmate from study times
<rodrigo_> hi chrisccoulson
<seb128> pitti, nice! ;-) you had fun I guess then
<pitti> yeah
<chrisccoulson> hi rodrigo_ :)
<Sweetshark> Moin everyone!
<pitti> hallo Sweetshark, wie gehts?
<Sweetshark> pitti: The 3.4.4-0u1 upload for oneiric is strange. People reported the l10n issue to be fixed in the ppa, but unfixed in the final upload. but AFAIK they are identical modulo the changelog change.
<Sweetshark> pitti: Pretty good. I was at the Luebecker Weihnachtsmarkt on the weekend.
<pitti> we also had Stollen yesterday for the first time \o/
<seb128> pitti, the first time? or the first time this year?
<pitti> seb128: this year, of course
 * pitti has had stollen every year, of course
<seb128> pitti, oh, ok, you almost scared me ;-)
<pitti> after all, Dresden makes the best one :)
<seb128> yummy, stollen!
<seb128> lol
<pitti> seb128: honestly -- you can buy Stollen from Dresden in Munich and London, but there's no foreign Stollen whatsoever in Dresden :)
<seb128> pitti, I need to check where the stollen we by at the supermarket here come from, it could be coming from dresden ;-)
<Sweetshark> seb128: or Luebeck (if it is one with massepain)
<seb128> is that something germans fight about? "who is making the best stollen"? ;-)
<pitti> all the time
<chrisccoulson> mmmmmmm, stollen
<pitti> yesterday I argued with my wife which bakery from Dresden is better
<chrisccoulson> there is stollen at the christmas market in birmingham
<pitti> but a lot of stollen is rather dry, I don't like that
<pitti> if it isn't really humid and has two tons of butter in it, it can't be good!
<chrisccoulson> heh
<Sweetshark> seb128: well, Dresden only has AMD and Luebeck has the "Buddenbrooks" otherwise these cities offer very little starting points for regional patriotism apart from holiday bakery. ;)
<pitti> yeah, we ruined our UNESCO world heritage status by building that silly bridge :(
<Sweetshark> seb128: and "Luebecker Marzipan" actually has a french wikipedia entry, that has got to count for something.
<seb128> ;-)
<caribou> morning
<caribou> does that jockey-text statement on Maverick rings a bell to someone ?
<caribou> "DEBUG: nvidia_current is blacklisted, so not treating as enabled"
<caribou> "DEBUG: nvidia_current is blacklisted, so not treating as enabled"
<ogra_> pitti, FYI https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-users/2011-November/254682.html ...
<seb128> ogra_, you still read ubuntu-users?
<ogra_> seb128, someone has to :)
<ogra_> popey, and cjwatson do as well
<seb128> do you read forums as well? ;-)
<seb128> (I regularly have a look to those nowadays, interesting sometimes)
<pitti> err, I wasn't trying to make it difficult; the package was unbuildable and uninstallable
<ogra_> i never read forums in my life :)
<ogra_> pitti, yeah, but that doesnt seem to have come across
<seb128> ogra_, some people just like to complain, it's nothing to do with Canonical, gnome-panel3 just doesn't make possible to build gtk2 applets
<seb128> it's a GNOME upstream thing
<seb128> ogra_, the guy should have got that, Debian did the same and Debian doesn't have anything to do with Canonical
<ogra_> seb128, yes, but currently one of the big things on ubuntu-users is to tell people to switch to mint because canonical ignores its users
<seb128> ogra_, well, they will have the exact same issue on the new mint
<ogra_> such a mail is just putting more oil on that fire
<ogra_> they wont, because they wouldnt bother to try xfce :P
<seb128> ogra_, or in fedora or whatsoever
<ogra_> they only use xfce to get the gnome2 feeling back
<ogra_> which mint will fake for them on top of G3
<pitti> it's not like we wouldn't have lucid or natty out there..
<seb128> or gnome-session-fallback in Oneiric
<seb128> they can still use gnome-panel there for a gnome2 feeling
<seb128> no need to use xfce
<ogra_> dont tell me
<ogra_> gnome-session-fallback is different
<seb128> ogra_, could you reply to this email saying that it's just that gnome-panel is on gtk3 now and that gtk2 and gtk3 can't be mixed and that comes from GNOME upstream and will be true in any distro?
<ogra_> (no idea if the mint stuff inst different either, but people seem to thnk it isnt)
<seb128> ogra_, somebody needs to make xfapplet use gtk3
<ogra_> will do
<seb128> ogra_, thanks
<ogra_> with all that mint hyping and canonical bashing for the desktop it would probably make sense to have one desktop team member taking a look from time to time though
<pitti> ogra_: mint uses GTK3 just as everybody else, so the XFCE applet won't work there either
<ogra_> its after all our biggest mailing list
<pitti> they have some GNOME 2 look-alike themes, though
<ogra_> pitti, as i said above, they wouldnt bother to use xfce on mint, simply because their overlay fakes gnnome2 good enough
<pitti> yeah
<rodrigo_> need to buy some food and then lunch, so bbl
<chrisccoulson> hmmmm, eating mince pies in november isn't good
<pitti> rodrigo_: nice work!
<seb128> chrisccoulson, not sure I ever got mince pie, seems like something worth trying ;-)
<ogra_> *especially* in the cold part of the year :)
<ogra_> cleaning your sinis etc :)
<ogra_> *sinus
<pitti> mvo, rodrigo_: since today or so, apt-get update and control-center sysinfo time out with
<pitti> Error org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.TimedOut: Activation of org.freedesktop.PackageKit timed out
<pitti> or c-c with
<pitti> (gnome-control-center:4692): info-cc-panel-WARNING **: Unable to get PackageKit proxy object
<pitti> I do have the "packagekit" package installed
<pitti> is that known?
<mvo> hm, could be /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/20packagekit but I'm not sure why this times out
<pitti> *should* I have PK installed?
<pitti> mvo: right, likely
<pitti> $ /usr/bin/dbus-send --print-reply --system --dest=org.freedesktop.PackageKit --type=method_call /org/freedesktop/PackageKit org.freedesktop.PackageKit.StateHasChanged string:'cache-update'
<pitti> has the same problem
<pitti> ugh, ahd I have 6 packagekitd processes running
<pitti> mvo: would you mind checking if you get http://paste.ubuntu.com/752463/ as well?
<pitti> indeed we got a new PK release 20 h ago
<pitti> rodrigo, mvo: anyway, seems to be a PK problem, not an apt/c-c one, so ignore me
<pitti> didrocks: finally getting back to the dash music player problem
<pitti> didrocks: actually, having totem as the default music/video player when you click on an .mp3 is wanted, as you don't want to automatically import that into your library
<didrocks> pitti: ah, so, changing it in the g-c-c fixed it?
<didrocks> indeed
<pitti> it's not in g-c-c itself, I'm currently digging where it's set
<pitti> something similar to shared-mime-info
<pitti> it doesn't seem to be in gsettings
<didrocks> pitti: hum, maybe we have something in unity to override it
<didrocks> pitti: if you let me some time, I can have a look
<seb128> pitti, what are you trying to figure?
<pitti> seb128: currently the "listen to music" button in the dash opens totem
<pitti> I figure it should open RB
<seb128> pitti, check .local/share/applications/mimeapps.list
<pitti> c-c's info panel shows "totem" as the music/video handler, which seems ok to me
<pitti> seb128: that's on a live system
<pitti> same on my system, though
<Sweetshark> pitti: I just debdiffed 3.4.4-0ubuntu1 and 3.4.4-0ubuntu1~ppa1 and the only difference is the qt-scrollbar patch. However https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libreoffice/+bug/873702/comments/28 suggests the ppa version to be good, while the released one is buggy.
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 873702 in libreoffice "some function names in Calc appear in english others in local language (mixed up) " [Medium,Fix committed]
<seb128> pitti, well if totem is selected in g-c-c that seems normal it's being used in the dash?
<pitti> seb128: hm, I was quite sure that it opened banshee in oneiric
<seb128> pitti, well do you have banshee installed?
<pitti> Sweetshark: that's really strange; has this been confirmed by someone else?
<pitti> seb128: no, it's not in the live system any more
<seb128> pitti, you probably want to edit /usr/share/applications/defaults.list in desktop-file-utils and banshee->rhythmbox then
<pitti> ah, d-f-u, thanks!
<seb128> pitti, yw
<seb128> that's the default mimetypes associations list
<Sweetshark> pitti: that the fix is in the ppa version: Yes, I confirmed that myself.
<Sweetshark> pitti: that its broken in the oneiric one: yes, multiple people report that on the bug.
<pitti> Sweetshark: we don't strip libo, unless it's actually using .po files foor that
<Sweetshark> pitti: possibly this is a sideeffect of our libreoffice/libreoffice-l10n split? something like building these source packages on different buildds causing this.
<pitti> Sweetshark: but the PPA is certainly split as well?
<Sweetshark> pitti: yes, but maybe both packages build on the same buildd?
 * Sweetshark checks
<pitti> how can that be relevant?
<pitti> Sweetshark: also, that's a lot less likely for PPAs (20 buildds) than for Ubuntu (5 buildds)
<pitti> seb128: hm, in the past we switched that from totem->banshee; I'll switch it back, but it still doesn't explain how to make the dash call RB then; I'll do some RTFC of the dash
<seb128> pitti, well, I guess the dash just call the default ogg handler
<pitti> likely
<Sweetshark> pitti: It could be relevant, if the ids for the build get different between both packages. After all, using the l10n for another build is not an supported scenario upstream (not even something anyone working upstream would consider anyone would ever do)
<pitti> ./plugins/unityshell/src/PlacesHomeView.cpp:  CreateShortcutFromMime("audio/x-vorbis+ogg", _("Listen to Music"), _music_alternatives);
<pitti> seb128, didrocks: ^ seems like it
<seb128> pitti, indeed
<pitti> actually
<seb128> pitti, GNOME does it the same way
<pitti>   _music_alternatives.push_back("banshee-1");
<pitti>   _music_alternatives.push_back("rhythmbox");
<pitti>   _music_alternatives.push_back("totem");
<pitti>   _music_alternatives.push_back("vlc");
<pitti> ah, but that's only done if the MIME type handler doesn't exist
<pitti> didrocks: but I heard that these buttons will go away anyway, right?
<didrocks> pitti: yes, they will
<pitti> didrocks: ok, so no need to waste time on that then
<didrocks> should not, indeed :)
<seb128> didrocks, do you know if the unity launcher would be fine listing in its config some .desktop which are set on NoDisplay=true?
<didrocks> seb128: hum, it has the "invisible launcher icons", but not sure if it's mapped correctly by bamf
<didrocks> seb128: why do you want to do that?
<seb128> didrocks, because our special nautilus .desktop for unity leads to have nautilus listed twice in the application lens
<seb128> i.e bug #891784
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 891784 in hundredpapercuts "Nautilus appears twice in the Ubuntu Unity dash" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/891784
<seb128> didrocks, once as "files" (the upstream desktop) and one with the user directory icon (which is what we use in the launcher)
<didrocks> seb128: yeah, I know about that one
<didrocks> not sure it will play with bamf
<seb128> ok, I will ignore it for now then
<didrocks> seb128: adding to my TODO, will have a test
<seb128> didrocks, thanks
<didrocks> yw
<Sweetshark> pitti: IIRC you wanted me to create a "3.4.4-0ubuntu2 (oneiric)" package which I uploaded to chinstrap, but it wasnt uploaded anywhere AFAI can see. Should that simply be deleted now? I would then do a fresh "3.4.4-0ubuntu2 (precise)" package, which can be packborted to oneiric. Or how do you want that?
<Sweetshark> oh, food delivery!
 * Sweetshark is off for lunch.
<dobey> seb128: why not just not ship the upstream one?
<pitti> Sweetshark: you mean s/oneiric/precise/?
<pitti> Sweetshark: a precise upload would be nice indeed, but now I need to check wit ogra if it's still ok to do today (alpha-1 around the corner)
<pitti> it'll build a while on arm
<pitti> I guess we better move that to Friday
<seb128> dobey, because I guess gnome-shell or some other stuff might use it
<ogra_> either that or we need to mangle the seeds
<ogra_> i'm fine with either
<ogra_> its A1 after all as long as it boots and the installer works somewhat, the arm team is happy
<dobey> seb128: patch it instead of shipping a second version then?
<seb128> dobey, yeah, I guess we could do that
<seb128> dobey, one issue I think was upgrades
<pitti> dobey: hey Rodney, how are you? FYI, current precise builds ship RB only, so the way is clear for a GTK3 music store
<seb128> like the user config has a references to the old name
<dobey> seb128: also, i am happy to get the avahi changes into debian; but i have no idea how to do that exactly
<dobey> seb128: yeah; same problem we had in u1 i guess
<seb128> dobey, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Debian/Bugs
<dobey> pitti: i'm good, thanks. and you? we'll be getting the rb store working soon
<ogra_> infinity, do you think the archive skew fix could handle libreoffice building while we release A1 ? theoretically it shouldnt bother us if it still builds on thu. should it ?
<seb128> dobey, i.e use submittodebian
<pitti> dobey: quite fine, thanks!
<dobey> seb128: does it only submit changes from the last change set? there are some ubuntu specific patches in avahi which i guess we don't want to submit to debian?
<infinity> ogra_: The archive will be fine.  I'm still not entirely convinced that apt doesn't suffer some minor issues with it.  Haven't had a chance to dig deeper.
<seb128> dobey, it does debdiff between versions, but you can open a bug manually with the diff from the merge request
<ogra_> well, might be a goood opportunity for a hardcore test
<ogra_> though it would cost us A1 if it fails ... might be a bit risky
<dobey> seb128: ok, thanks; i'll try to do that today
<seb128> dobey, http://www.debian.org/Bugs/Reporting
<seb128> dobey, it's basically "send an email to submit@bugs.debian.org" with some lines with infos for the bug tracker "Package:" "Version:" etc
<dobey> seb128: right; i guess reportbug does that though too
<seb128> dobey, reportbug can be confusing, I think it does try to send a mail using the local mta, that might not work, I usually just copy the output into an email with my mailer
<dobey> ok
<Laney> put "smtphost your.smtp.host.here" in ~/.reportbugrc
<seb128> Laney, thanks
<Laney> np
<pitti> good night everyone!
<seb128> 'night pitti
<seif> seb128, can u send me a list of default apps for ubuntu
<seif> this way i can finish the plugins and patches for them to push into zeitgeist per default
<seif> ?
<seb128> seif, you can look at http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/20111128/precise-desktop-amd64.manifest for example
<seif> seb128, thanks
<seb128> seif, it lists what is contained on the CD
<seif> brb
<seif> somehow my mouse is not responding
<seif> wtd
<seif> i mean r
<didrocks> good night everyone, will fix my laptop now
<mfisch> stgraber: got time for a question on my review?
<stgraber> mfisch: sure
<stgraber> mfisch: you'll have to give me a link to it though, I went through a good 50 or so of these :)
<seif> seb128, ok so most is covered
<seb128> great
<seif> i just need to work on libreoffice, shotwell and revisit rhythmbox
<seif> also nautilus could be patched to tell us when something was copied around
<seif> or moved
<GunnarHj> seb128: Thanks for jumping in the discussion in #control-center.
<seb128> GunnarHj, yw
<GunnarHj> Do you know if GNOME use the fredesktop a-s version or the Debian one?
<dobey> a-s?
<GunnarHj> seb128: ^
<GunnarHj> dobey: accountsservice
<seb128> GunnarHj, no upstream rely on a distro specific version, so GNOME uses the freedesktop version
<seb128> i.e without patch
<GunnarHj> seb128: Ok, I see.
<seb128> GunnarHj, what mclasen was saying is basically that he doesn't see the point because GNOME already has a gsetting key for what you need
<GunnarHj> seb128: Yeah, I realize that.
<seb128> GunnarHj, the question then is to know if they really intend the service as cross desktop or if they host it on fdo but see it as a GNOME service
<seb128> either way having the reply to that would be useful ;-)
<GunnarHj> seb128: Right. Wasn't aware of that it's basically only GNOME people behind accountsservice.
<seb128> GunnarHj, it has been written by fedora,GNOME people, I don't think anyone out of GNOME is using it
<GunnarHj> seb128: Aha.
<GunnarHj> seb128: Setting language via PAM and regional formats via gsettings would be unconvenient for us, since the LANG variable affects both and due to the need to handle the migration from ~/.profile.
<seb128> GunnarHj, well what mclasen was saying I think is that the info you need is already in gsettings so you could read it from there rather than having to query accountsservice
<GunnarHj> seb128: Yes... but GNOME has not a ~/.profile history. It makes little sense to me to handle language and regional formats in different places.
<seb128> GunnarHj, well I doubt GNOME is wanting to use legacy files to store their settings
<GunnarHj> seb128: Ok, unlike me you know the 'politics' involved here. :)
<seb128> indeed ;-)
<GunnarHj> seb128: I have started some work with the PAM idea in mind. https://code.launchpad.net/~gunnarhj/ubuntu/precise/accountsservice/lang-fix/+merge/82505
<GunnarHj> seb128: Maybe we should stop talking now, and involve Martin in this discussion.
<seb128> re.
<desrt> seb128: greetings.
<seb128> GunnarHj, ok, well that's not orthogonal to what GNOME is doing
<seb128> hey desrt, how are you?
<desrt> decent.
<desrt> running into any difficulties?
<seb128> desrt, you mean? with GNOME?
<desrt> ya
<seb128> desrt, not really, mclasen had to run so we didn't manage to have a proper discussion
<desrt> i didn't see that earlier.  what was it about?
<seb128> desrt, basically GunnarHj want to get an interface added to accountsservice and mclasen replied "why, we already store that in gsettings"
<seb128> desrt, it was on #control-center
<seb128> desrt, http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/752925/
<seb128> desrt, so it basically comes down to whether accountsservice is on fdo as a real cross desktop component or if it's just pretending and is in fact made to serve GNOME and not consider other desktop requirements (either is fine, it's just better if they state which one it is)
<desrt> seb128: so same problem as always :)
<seb128> desrt, well usually we have that discussion about i.e gnome-control-center which is a GNOME thing
<seb128> desrt, there they hosted the service on freedesktop, but I wonder why if they consider it being there only to adress GNOME needs
<seb128> desrt, we somewhat raised the same issue when robert_ancell started using it in lightdm, the KDE guys never heard about it before
<desrt> hum
<desrt> to be honest, the regional setting thing has never sat well with me
<dobey> it's probably a "this should be on fdo because we think it would be nice if KDE used it, but meh"
<desrt> since it seems to fly in the face of how glibc (POSIX?) wants to do this...
<desrt> not that i'm particularly fond of POSIX in this regard
<seb128> the locales and region settings is harder that it should be for sure ;-)
<desrt> the idea of doing en_CA type thing is completely bloody broken
<desrt> for messages, ya... okay
<dobey> en_ISS
<desrt> but as soon as you start talking about things like date/time formatting, number formats, even monetary formats... it's clearly a totally broken way to consider these things
<dobey> how does it work out, if your region changes every 5 minutes?
<desrt> dobey: i hope you like to login/logout a lot?
<dobey> desrt: need to EVA to change the settings?
<desrt> even in cases where i don't want it to change
<desrt> but i'm slightly non-boring in some way or another...
<desrt> i have to go start setting individual LC_ category environment variables
<desrt> and they're not always as granular as i'd prefer
<desrt> like if i want canadian date formatting but the month names rendered in german... i'm basically completely screwed
<seb128> or u.s locale but weeks starting on monday
<desrt> same story, yes
<dobey> desrt: well, at least you don't want discordian dates
<desrt> there are really three problems, i guess
<desrt> 1) completely annoying to mix-and-match locales in the first place
<dobey> Today is Boomtime, the 40th day of The Aftermath in the YOLD 3177
<desrt> 2) even if you can deal with the annoyance, all mix-and-matches are not possible
<desrt> 3) there is zero possibility to define totally custom formats without creating your own locale
<seb128> oh, that's what we should do!
<seb128> create locales on the fly ;-)
<desrt> ya
<desrt> it's not a terrible option, in fact
<desrt> which itself is telling you something...
<desrt> (if this is our best option...)
<desrt> the other possibility (that i consider more and more) is to define how this is handled within glib itself
<desrt> and have all GNOME apps use glib for all formatting, ignoring the libc
<seb128> right
<seb128> which is what people who want a GNOME "start of week" setting are suggesting for a while (where while is years ;-)
<seb128> the start of week is an obvious and frequent request, but it's not limited to that one indeed
<desrt> many people (and many rather clever people) have suggested this before
<GunnarHj> In a sense, creating locales on the fly is the ultimate solution. But OTOH you have a lot of apps/tools that insist on doing their own things with format settings, irrespective of the LC_* variables.
<desrt> i'm just not sure i want to bite that one off :)
<seb128> desrt, oh come on, we need somebody living in a multicultural country to drive this one :p
<desrt> hah
<desrt> anyway... it's a can of worms
<desrt> even assuming that we pick a reasonable scope and find a way to seed it with some initial data (copying libc, probably)
<desrt> we have all sorts of new questions about how we decide to do the configuration
<desrt> and how we teach gettext about it (or if we even continue to use gettext)
<desrt> it might seem like a nice idea to use dconf, but that would actually be a disaster
<desrt> and not just because libglib can't make use of dconf
<desrt> but also because it's not clear what we should be expected to do when the settings change
<desrt> update any affected labels in realtime?
<desrt> sounds fun, if we had a reactive programming language
<seb128> desrt, yeah, for some definition of "fun"
<seb128> the locale handling is way harder than it should be ;-)
<desrt> part of my complaint with glibc is that the locales have entirely too much information
<seb128> in practice not sure what are things people really want to see changed
<desrt> how to format people's names?  monetary symbol?  address and telephone number formats?
<seb128> the most frequent request I've seen for sure in ubuntu is "start of week"
<desrt> seb128: date and time formats, for sure
<seb128> then we have people who want the texts locale to be different from the units and time format
<desrt> seb128: probably decimal point and grouping separator
 * desrt is slightly fond of 1'234'567.00
<seb128> well I think you have 3 categories there, "language for the stings", "format" for clock,money,etc and start of week which seems a bit special
<seb128> stings->strings
<desrt> seb128: "how to format money" has no place here
<desrt> since any sanely-written program will realise that there is more than one type of money on earth
<seb128> well, not "format", but the currency
<desrt> and the assumption that because i am in canada i always want to be dealing with canadian dollars is becoming laughable in the modern world
<seb128> so maybe what we would need is an api in glib "give me the time formatted to my preferences"
<desrt> ditto telephone numbers, addresses and people's names for the same reasons
<desrt> indeed
<seb128> and have a gsettings key defining that
<desrt> but even that is difficult
<desrt> with seconds or without?
<desrt> date and time?
<seb128> %X :p
<desrt> if date and time, then do you also have the year, or do you leave that out?
<seb128> well I guess you don't want to be too smart
<desrt> %X has seconds.  that's almost certainly not what i want for the clock on my panel
<seb128> you just want to be able to say "use en_US for the strings" and "fr_FR" for everything else
<desrt> LC_MESSAGES=...
<desrt> except that LC_TIME has the strings for days of week/month :)
<seb128> which is sort of what language selector is doing
<seb128> it's dropping LC_... definitions in .profile
<desrt> seriously?  that's what it does?
<seb128> yes
<desrt> wow
<desrt> that's really really fucked up
<seb128> do you have a better suggestion? ;-)
<desrt> a config file that gets sourced by the X session scripts?
<desrt> people edit ~/.profile by hand...
<desrt> and it's free-form
<seb128> right, they are moving to .pam_environment this cycle
<desrt> slightly better :)
<seb128> bug #866062
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 866062 in accountsservice "SetLanguage(): Write ~/.pam_environment instead of ~/.profile" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/866062
<desrt> fwiw ,i find it a bit odd that the account service deals with language at all
<desrt> i guess it makes sense from the standpoint of not logging the user into an account that they can't read any labels on
<GunnarHj> desrt: That latter remark seems to be about a language chooser on the greeter rather than about accountsservice.
<TheMuso> BB?c
<TheMuso> GAH
#ubuntu-desktop 2011-11-29
<didrocks> good morning
<TheMuso> Morning didrocks.
<TheMuso> You're around early this morning.
<didrocks> hey TheMuso! Yeah, couldn't sleep for the past hour already, so rather than rambling in my bed, let's do something productive :)
<TheMuso> Fair enough.
<broder> is gnome-open formally deprecated at this point in favor of xdg-open or something like that?
<broder> ah, looks like gvfs-open is the way and the light this week
<micahg> yep, looks like we should revert anything that was uploaded to use libgnome-2
<micahg> oops, maybe not, depends on what the patch was :)
<pitti> Good morning
<pitti> yay, I'm not the first one for a change
<pitti> didrocks: eek, up at 5:10?
<pitti> broder: yes
<pitti> broder: xdg-open is the recommended and most generic interface
<didrocks> pitti: hey, yeah :/ (well, at 4am actually, but I was thinking that I could still find some sleep)
<pitti> I had TB meeting last night, so I slept in a bit
<didrocks> pitti: yeah, TB meeting is ending late for someone starting early like you :)
<rickspencer3> holy moly, anyone heard anything more regarding Riddell?
<pitti> nothign except sladen's mail
<didrocks> same here :/
<caribou> Would someone have an idea on why nvidia_current which appears as Enabled under jockey-text would remain as "Not in use" on 11.10 ?
<caribou> it's been removed and re-added with jockey-gtk and it remains "Not in Use"
<pitti> we have a long-standing and hard to reproduce report for this, bug 771788
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 771788 in nvidia-common "nVidia driver activated and apparently being used but reported as not being used by jockey-gtk" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/771788
<caribou> well here it's not being used either, the screen resolution is lousy, barely useable
<pitti> caribou: what does "lsmod | grep nvidia" say? is the module loaded?
<caribou> pitti: not sure it is
<pitti> you should get a line like "nvidia       12345 1"
<pitti> if not, it's not loaded
<rodrigo_> morning
<pitti> hey rodrigo_, how are you?
<rodrigo_> morning
<pitti> rodrigo_: good morning again :)
<pitti> how are you?
<rodrigo_> heh
<rodrigo_> pitti, I'm fine, and you?
<pitti> rodrigo_: quite well, thanks!
<chrisccoulson> good morning everyone
<rodrigo_> hi chrisccoulson
<chrisccoulson> hi rodrigo_, how are you?
<pitti> hey chrisccoulson
<chrisccoulson> hi pitti, how are you?
<pitti> I'm great, thanks
<pitti> alpha-1 release engineering is really a no-brainer now :)
<chrisccoulson> heh :)
<didrocks> hey rodrigo_, good morning chrisccoulson
<rodrigo_> hi didrocks
<chrisccoulson> hi didrocks
<chrisccoulson> hey seb128
<pitti> bonjour seb128
<chrisccoulson> hmmmm, i wish i could build-depend on packages from ddebs.ubuntu.com :)
<pitti> chrisccoulson: OOI, what for?
<chrisccoulson> pitti - so i could generate breakpad symbols for system libraries as part of the firefox build
<seb128> hey chrisccoulson, pitti, how are you?
<pitti> I'm fine
<chrisccoulson> at the moment, i'll probably be running a job on chinstrap to generate them and submit them to mozilla separately
<chrisccoulson> which is a bit of a pain :)
<seb128> pitti, I guess a poppler soname change would be better after a1 rather than before?
<seb128> bah, getting armhf build failure emails now
<seb128> it's quite polluting versions as well
<seb128> pitti, it's meeting reminder day
<seb128> ;-)
<pitti> oh, right
<pitti> seb128: thanks
<seb128> yw!
<seb128> pitti, btw did you see the poppler question?
<pitti> seb128: no, I didn't
<seb128> pitti, 3 lines before the meeting reminder reminder
<pitti> seb128: ah, there; yes please
<pitti> seb128: you can upload the new poppler, it'll just go into binNEW
<pitti> but let's do the transition afterwards
<seb128> right, that's what I was thinking
<seb128> ok, will do that, I might also start on the new glib in the vcs but that one will be kept for after a1
<seb128> pitti, btw if you ever get bored and what to do some updates in debian: libcroco libdmapsharing intltool would be nice to update there so we stay in sync
<seb128> the new intltool adds support for gsettings schemas
<seb128> so it's possible to translate them properly including default values
<pitti> nice
<seb128> chrisccoulson, btw I was looking at ubuntu forums a bit on my friday off work, several people are having the tb,pop,spam issues my friend emailed you about before oneiric, did that just got dropped on the floor on the way? or is the issue (or pop users) just don't ranked high enough to reach the part of your todolist you are working on?
<seb128> chrisccoulson, said differently, should I nag you about it this cycle or do you think it's too low priority and will not get to it?
<chrisccoulson> seb128, i just haven't had time to look at it :)
<chrisccoulson> seb128, you read forums?
<chrisccoulson> and you don't want to kill yourself afterwards?
<seb128> chrisccoulson, not usually, I'm just doing a sociologist studies of ubuntu users and trying to figure what's causing the hype for mint and there is something we could do better ;-)
<chrisccoulson> heh :)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, seems like it's all your fault with that tb,spam issue, people get their indicator blue when it shouldn't be!
<seb128> ;-)
<chrisccoulson> perhaps if we change our theme to green and not show kernel security upgrades by default, then people will love us :)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, not to mention that my indicator still has the issue I showed you at UDS, that's on imap though
<seb128> lol
<chrisccoulson> seb128, yeah, i will fix that one soon, once i've done with this breakpad / system libraries stuff :)
<seb128> great! ;-)
<chrisccoulson> seb128, you can report a bug about the spam issue if you like, and link it to https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-p-thunderbird-enhancements
<seb128> chrisccoulson, bug #871568 could be that issue
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 871568 in thunderbird "Removing spam does not clear flag" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/871568
<chrisccoulson> hmmm, i really should make the thunderbird apport hook submit non-private account info :)
<chrisccoulson> oh
<chrisccoulson> that wouldn't have helped in this case, anyhow
<seb128> chrisccoulson, heh, you asked the same question than me there :p
<chrisccoulson> heh
<seb128> chrisccoulson, well you got lucky if that's the same bug the submitter is diwic ;-)
<seb128> you will likely have a reply and can do IRC debugging if needed
<seb128> or debugging at the rally
<chrisccoulson> i need to find a POP account really. preferably one which gets lots of spam
<chrisccoulson> i'm going to end up setting one up later, and then subscribing the address to sites that i would normally steer clear of :)
<mvo> pitti: could you please check/apply http://paste.ubuntu.com/753523/ for glib? a annotation missing to allow g_file_set_attribute() to unset a value (to unset it needs to pass NULL for the value)
<pitti> mvo: http://git.gnome.org/browse/glib/commit/?id=0627759331d857a3b99eec0ed2c13e5cf7f67130
<pitti> mvo: thanks!
<mvo> thanks pitti
<Sweetshark> pitti: 3.4.4-0ubuntu2 builds in a precise pbuilder just fine (on amd64)
<pitti> nice!
<pitti> Sweetshark: we'll upload that on Thursday then, after a1 preps are done
<pitti> thanks for testing
<Sweetshark> pitti: I could give it a run on the arm porter box in the meantime
<Sweetshark> pitti: otoh its not in the alpha image and by beta, I will have some 3.5 build hopefully
<seb128> do people care about powerpc or armhf build issues to be raised on versions?
<seb128> or said different: I'm about to make version ignore those, if you disagree now is the moment to speak ;-)
<pitti> seb128: I'd keep armel
<pitti> and at some point we should add armhf, but not now
<seb128> pitti, yeah, I'm just speaking about powerpc and armhf
<seb128> i.e I would keep i386 amd64 armel
<pitti> is powerpc so bad right now?
<seb128> no, there is just firefox and thunderbird sitting on top of version due to it ;-)
<pitti> there's just two, and both are chrisccoulson's bugs
<seb128> yeah, it got better recently, there were like 5-6 until recently
<chrisccoulson> why is firefox on versions?
<pitti> it's a desktopy package
<seb128> chrisccoulson, because version lists everything desktopish
<chrisccoulson> ah, i was just wondering if there's a need to have it on there
<seb128> chrisccoulson, just making sure that you don't start slacking ;-)
<chrisccoulson> but regarding the powerpc issue - i don't really care about powerpc ;)
<chrisccoulson> i'll find the upstream patch which fixes it if i get time, but it's fairly low priority for me
<seb128> yeah, I think I will keep the build issue emblems but not raise the powerpc specific issues to be first on the page so we know about them without having them being too noisy
<chrisccoulson> yeah, makes sense
<pitti> seb128: btw, I'll go to the stable+1 team in December
<seb128> pitti, ok
<pitti> but you'll get mterry and cyphermox back :)
<seb128> we get mterry back then?
<seb128> oh, cyphermox was,is there?
<seb128> didn't know that ;-)
 * rodrigo_ lunch
<jibel> pitti, bug 893842 affects language-selector too, breaking non-english installations.
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 893842 in policykit-1 "Move "admin" group to "sudo"" [Critical,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/893842
<pitti> jibel: ah, thanks
<jibel> pitti, when I say 'breaking' I mean the user is prompted to install missing langpack but can't.
<pitti> jibel: testing a fix
<pitti> jibel: fix uploaded
<pitti> jibel: that might be worth a respin
<pitti> but it affects everything but kubuntu
<jibel> pitti, I agree
<jibel> pitti, but wait we have another potential problem with amd64
<jibel> pitti, bug 897680
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 897680 in ubiquity "12.04 64Bit Alpha1 installer crashed in VirtualBox" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/897680
<jibel> libc fails to install when the user selects to install flash
<jibel> I'm currently trying to reproduce
<pitti> E: Some index files failed to download. They have been ignored, or old ones used instead.
<pitti> hmm
<pitti> the syslog has a million different problems and crashes
<jibel> yep, that's why I want to make sure its not a problem with image.
<pitti> I did several amd64 test installs, they all worked fine
<pitti> but I never tried the "install non-free stuff" option
<pitti> jibel: hm, something removes libc-bin, it installs libc-bin:i386 instead
<jibel> pitti, usually it's flashplugin's fault
<pitti> jibel: so, that does sound reproducible; I have an install running right now, so can't reproduce right now
<pitti> yeah
<jibel> pitti, I'm on it
 * pitti is still trying to debug the EINVAL thing
 * jibel is reporting bugs with oem installation
<pitti> didrocks, kenvandine: just a gentle reminder about https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2011-11-29 ; thanks in advance!
<kenvandine> pitti, yup :)
<didrocks> pitti: yeah, no worry, have that in my queue :)
<jibel> pitti, I confirm 897680 and oem is broken too
<jibel> dbus timeout on oem-config-remove
<pitti> jibel: ok, OEM is probably uninteresting for alpha-1, I think we can live with documenting this
<pitti> but 897680 is a showstopper IMHO
<jibel> pitti, agree, there is a timeout but then the session starts as expected.
<seb128> pitti, just a note, it seems Josselin fixed some issues in the pkg-gnome gtk3 svn with the multiarch changes
<seb128> pitti, not sure how important they are to get in ubuntu
<pitti> seb128: we certainly should; I'm also going to sync pygobject after a1, for the python-gi renaming
<pitti> but I figure not important enough for a1
<seb128> pitti, yeah, it doesn't seem so
<pitti> mterry: do you have a moment to look into bug 897680?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 897680 in ubiquity "Precise Desktop 64Bit: libc6 fails to install if "install 3rd party software" is selected" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/897680
<seb128> ricotz, hey, you should really start maintaining some packages in Ubuntu ;-)
<pitti> mterry: it seems that installing ubuntu-restricted-addons removes libc-bin and installs libc-bin:i386, and thus breaks a lot of dependencies
<seb128> ricotz, looking at your testing ppa there is no reason we couldn't update rhythmbox or pango directly in precise
<pitti> mterry: I can also do it later on, I'm just debugging another installer bug and I can't run more than one VM on my machine sensibly
<pitti> mterry: if it looks too dubious to you, it's ok, I'm just asking
<mterry> pitti, I can certainly start looking at it
<pitti> would be good to reduce that from "install the whole thing" to a smaller reproducer
<ricotz> seb128, hi, i know
<seb128> ricotz, is there anything we can do to push you to contribute directly to the team work? ;-)
<ricotz> seb128, pango should be fine, rhythmbox should be merged with debian
<seb128> ricotz, I've nothing against your ppa but we would welcome somebody maintaining i.e cogl, clutter, rhythmbox
<seb128> ricotz, we can probably update cogl and clutter to the new serie if somebody want to do it
<ricotz> seb128, i guess if i have upload rights ;)
<ricotz> seb128, updating cogl and clutter to 1.9.2 isnt a good idea yet
<seb128> ricotz, if you do some updates and merges you could get in ubuntu-desktop like jbicha did
<seb128> ricotz, it shouldn't be hard to find sponsors around ;-) do you want to do some merges like rhythmbox?
<seb128> or maybe things like gnome-applets, gnome-panel?
<seb128> ricotz, do you know what is happening with the desktop-extra set btw?
<seb128> that seemed to be on tracked to be added but I didn't see recent news about it
<ricotz> seb128, i guess the packages which are in my ppa are the most interesting ones for me
<mterry> bah, have to set up my 64bit vm again
<ricotz> seb128, just wanted to ask about the extra set
<seb128> Laney, ^ do you know what's the status of this one?
<pitti> mterry: that should be reproducible in a live environment
<pitti> mterry: you just need to give it enough memory to add restricted to apt, update, and install u-r-a
<mterry> k
<Laney> seb128: jbicha should give us a list and come to the next dmb meeting
<pitti> mterry: I tried to install ubuntu-restricted-addons on my workstation, but that didn't reproduce it
<pitti> but I already have flash, etc.
<seb128> Laney, thanks
<Laney> and a final description
<kenvandine> mterry, got time for an MIR review? bug 893286
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 893286 in clutter-gst "[MIR] clutter-gst" [Low,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/893286
<Laney> packages NOT in core, desktop or desktop core which are part of gnome modulesets or so
<seb128> ricotz, can you work with jbicha on that?
<mterry> kenvandine, I can add it to my queue today.  is it very time sensitive?
<ricotz> Laney, i thought there is already a list done
<Laney> we need a final one on which to vote
<seb128> Laney, he sent a list with his first email but we can double check and update it
<Laney> there were some tweaks to the description since then
<ricotz> i see
<seb128> ricotz, clutter-gst, another of those in your ppa that we could update in precise directly ;-)
<geser> Laney: was there also a source for "part of gnome moduleset" specified? (don't remember the details of the meeting anymore)
<Laney> there's some link
<Laney> on git.gnome.org
<kenvandine> mterry, not terribly, but i've been itching to get empathy uploaded
<kenvandine> mterry, thx
<pitti> kenvandine: eww, clutter into main now? we really tried to avoid this
<pitti> kenvandine: it's banned from teh CD, definitively
<kenvandine> pitti, just clutter-gst
<seb128> that brings clutter with it
<kenvandine> clutter is in main, but not on the cd
<seb128> pitti, I though we agreed to not make video playing depends on it because that it was fine for other less important things?
<pitti> kenvandine: ok, just asking; it sounded like empathy would pull it in then
<kenvandine> empathy will
<kenvandine> but nothing else will use it
<seb128> because-> but
<pitti> seb128: I can't parse the second half of your sentence
<pitti> ah
<kenvandine> pitti, we talked about including it, but not having totem use it
<seb128> pitti, yeah, sorry, thinko-typo
<pitti> seb128: well, I really don't want all that covered by LTS support
<kenvandine> pitti, there is a lot of working going into video calling in empathy and we want those improvements in 12.04
<seb128> pitti, well it's already in main, do we support differently things on the CD in practice?
<pitti> seb128: yeah, I mean things like mx
<kenvandine> not mx
<seb128> oh, that's not getting in
<pitti> I thought it would pull that in
<seb128> totem and cheese depends on those
<kenvandine> no
<seb128> but not the other things
<kenvandine> empathy doesn't :)
<pitti> ah, I see
<kenvandine> just clutter-gst
<seb128> so it would be only clutter and clutter-gst
<kenvandine> the rest is already in main
<seb128> well, those would get on the CD
<kenvandine> yes
<pitti> taking a break, bbl
<kenvandine> mterry, seb128, so we are going to split the new empathy call handler into a separate binary that won't be on the CD
<kenvandine> but we still need clutter-gst in main
<kenvandine> mterry, so whenever you have time, a review would be nice :)
<pitti> mterry: cjwatson just added a comment, seems it's a non-issue
<mterry> pitti, damn it, I added a comment too, but didn't refresh first.  So now I look like (and am) johnny-come-lately on the bug report.  ;)
<kenvandine> pitti, can you reject the older gnome-keyring in -proposed and take a look at the latest one?
<pitti> mterry: to the contrary; thanks for looking into it
<kenvandine> i reverted that commit
<pitti> kenvandine: sure
<kenvandine> pitti, thx
<mterry> pitti, well, glad it's a no-op.  I love non-issues
<chrisccoulson> wow, it's so dark and miserable outside today
<Laney> chrisccoulson: yeah: http://www.raintoday.co.uk/ - currently overhead :-)
<chrisccoulson> heh, i'm glad i'm not in scotland today :)
<seb128> kenvandine, great
 * pitti reads https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2011-11-29
<pitti> jasoncwarner, Sweetshark, bryceh, chrisccoulson, didrocks, tremolux, Riddell, kenvandine, cyphermox, mterry, rodrigo_, seb128, tkamppeter, pedro_, desrt, agateau: I see no agenta items ^, anything to discuss?
<didrocks> nothing really for me :)
<rodrigo_> pitti, nothing from me, just working on new features
<mterry> heyo
<agateau> pitti: nothing for me
<seb128> hey pitti
<kenvandine> nothing here
<mterry> I'm still just chilling in +1-maint land
<mterry> (back on Friday for Desktop)
<seb128> mterry, \o/
<pitti> mterry: I'll take your baton
<ricotz> seb128, pitti, hi, this should be applied in ubuntu http://anonscm.debian.org/viewvc/pkg-gnome/desktop/unstable/gtk%2B3.0/debian/control.in?r1=31901&r2=31900&pathrev=31901
<seb128> ricotz, thanks, I mentioned it to pitti before, he said after a1
<ricotz> seb128, hmm, ok, but this breaks the icon cache update
<ricotz> isnt this breaking quite some things
<ricotz> at least for the 64bit isos
<seb128> does it?
<ricotz> seb128, it breaks the links for gtk-icon-cache-update-3.0 and the trigger doesnt work then
<seb128> oh, right, I remember fixing that bug for gtk2 previous cycle
<seb128> pitti, ^ wdyt?
<ricotz> /usr/sbin/update-icon-caches: 16: /usr/sbin/update-icon-caches: gtk-update-icon-cache-3.0: not found
<ricotz> WARNING: icon cache generation failed for /usr/share/icons/LowContrast
<pitti> seb128: it's in bzr, but it doesn't seem urgent enough for A1 to me -- it doesn't break a lot apparently?
<seb128> pitti, well it breaks the icon cache updates, which basically means any new icon installed will in practice be hidden by the outdated cache
<seb128> that can lead to segfault and other issues for softwares who don't handle broken installation (i.e to not have the icon they install not available)
<seb128> but in practice for the CD itself it's probably not much of an issue
<pitti> seb128: right, but with all these strict dependencies on -common, uploading a new version is prone to arch desync and uninstallability
<pitti> ah, amd64 has caught up
<pitti> so it  would actually have a chance of building now (it was locked in some gcc/kernel/etc. builds a few hours ago)
<seb128> pitti, ok fair enough, I've no strong opinion as long as the pro and con are understood ;-)
<seb128> it will probably lead to a few weird runtime issues for some users, especially those upgrading, but that's not the end of the world
<pitti> armel buildds are blocked right now, too
<pitti> and a respin is just running
<pitti> seb128: so, if you think it's important, please upload and I can set aside an armel build for it
<seb128> pitti, it's broken for a week and we didn't get lot of complain so in practice it's probably less an issue that I though
<pitti> ok
<seb128> pitti, let's delay it to tomorrow or thursday
<pitti> did I break this with the multi-arch changes?
<seb128> pitti, yes
<seb128> pitti, the gtk-update-icon... command path is arch specific now and its symlink is in an arch all binary
<pitti> aah, I didn't actually change the Arch: line
<pitti> right, I didn't notice that, sorry about this
<seb128> pitti, we had the same bug in gtk2 in oneiric but got it fixed during the cycle
<seb128> no worry
<seb128> thanks ricotz who noticed it and got it fixed in Debian ;-)
<pitti> ricotz: cheers!
<ricotz> no worry ;) -- havent noticed it for a while too
<tkamppeter> pitti, hi
<seb128> waouh
<seb128> "We"re Sorry Thunderbird had a problem and crashed."
<seb128> that's the first time it happens since I use tb I think!
<kenvandine> wow...
<seb128> the "submitting your report" line starts with a broken icon...
<seb128> it doesn't tell me how much it submits and how it's progressing nor has an icon for the dialog (i.e get a "?" in the unity launcher)
<seb128> I want apport back :p
 * rodrigo_ out for a bit, bbl
<seb128> chrisccoulson, hey
<seb128> chrisccoulson, is there any way I can know what tb send to mozilla about my issue? it didn't me any url, bug number or anything
<chrisccoulson> hi seb128
<seb128> send -> sent
<chrisccoulson> seb128, you submitted a crash report?
<seb128> he finished, closed the dialog and that's it
<seb128> chrisccoulson, yeah, read the backlog there ;-)
<chrisccoulson> seb128, Help -> Troubleshooting Information -> Crash Reports
<chrisccoulson> oh, i think there might be an issue with retrieving reports from crash-stats atm
<seb128> chrisccoulson, no such section or mention on this page
<chrisccoulson> seb128, oh? what version of thunderbird are you using?
<seb128> chrisccoulson, 7.0.1
<chrisccoulson> ah, you're out of date :)
<chrisccoulson> i'm on 9.0b2
<seb128> yeah, seems like 8.0 landed in oneiric-security yesterday
<seb128> ok, I will update
<chrisccoulson> seb128, in that case, you can get crash ID's from ~/.thunderbird/Crash\ Reports/submitted
<seb128> so it means it just -> /dev/null my bug report?
<chrisccoulson> and then just add the ID to the end of http://crash-stats.mozilla.com/report/index/
<seb128> there is no "submitted", only a "pending"
<seb128> it maybe failed to send it?
<chrisccoulson> oh, perhaps
<chrisccoulson> that's a pain :(
<seb128> chrisccoulson, ok, no worry, my version is outdated anyway
<seb128> chrisccoulson, thanks
<m4n1sh> seb128: when you are free can you look into this https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libepc/+bug/897790
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 897790 in libepc "[MIR]libepc" [Undecided,New]
<seb128> m4n1sh, thanks for writing it, do you need my input for it? I can't ack it, I'm not in the mir team
<seb128> m4n1sh, the bug seems to have all the details needed, you need somebody from ubuntu-mir to review it now
<m4n1sh> seb128: I have to subscribe them? right?
<m4n1sh> is there a channel for mir
<seb128> m4n1sh, yes, subscribe them, do you have any question for them? they review the list regularly so there is no much nagging needed
<m4n1sh> okay
<m4n1sh> then I think it is fine
<m4n1sh> I think i can ping didrocks :)
<m4n1sh> he is a part of it
<seb128> m4n1sh, they don't have a channel but some people on #ubuntu-desktop and #ubuntu-devel are in the mir team and can reply to questions if you ask them here
<m4n1sh> seb128: I know 5 of the 6 people in mir team
<m4n1sh> not an issue :)
<seb128> yeah, didrocks or mterry, but usually better to not ping directly, give it a week and ping then if you get no reply ;-)
<seb128> great
<m4n1sh> I should relax and let things happen naturallty
<m4n1sh> thanks seb128 for the guidance
<seb128> you're welcome
<seb128> thanks for the work on that mir ;-)
<mterry> m4n1sh, yeah, subscribe "ubuntu-mir" and it doesn't hurt to ping us individually
<m4n1sh> mterry: subscribed :)
<didrocks> mterry: it doesn't hurt for you! I'm hurt :-)
<mterry> didrocks, just turn off IRC highlighting  :)
 * m4n1sh sometimes feels didrocks has too many things on his plate
<m4n1sh> how the hell do you manage
<didrocks> mterry: nice idea! :-)
<didrocks> m4n1sh: I try to survive. I stopped managing ;-)
<m4n1sh> ha ha
<chrisccoulson> seb128, a lot of our thunderbird crashes aren't a lot of use atm btw :(
<seb128> didier *rambo* roche
<chrisccoulson> we get a lot of crashes inside eds
<chrisccoulson> and no symbols for those
<seb128> chrisccoulson, because of the other stack components missing?
<chrisccoulson> seb128, yeah. that's what i'm working on resolving right now :)
<seb128> why is eds such a piece of crap :-(
<chrisccoulson> heh
<seb128> chrisccoulson, is mozilla hating us for it? ;-)
<chrisccoulson> seb128, not sure. m_conley? ;)
<m_conley> it's a sore subject. :p
<seb128> we should maybe try to review the most frequent issues and get them fixed this cycle
<seb128> issues in e-d-s which impact tb
<seb128> tb probably doesn't use so many e-d-s apis, it might not be too hard to fix the most commonly reported bugs
<chrisccoulson> yeah, hopefully. we can figure that out once we start getting good crash reports :)
<didrocks> have a good night everyone
<desrt> didrocks: bye bye
<pitti> bye didrocks
<pitti> have a good night!
<didrocks> thanks, you too desrt & pitti
<seb128> 'night didrocks
<seb128> pedro_, bug #896805 is easy to get, kill gnome-settings-daemon, it should restart but nautilus doesn't pick the theme back (xchat-gnome has the same issue)
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 896805 in nautilus "nautilus doesn't pick dynamically themes updates" [Low,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/896805
<didrocks> Ã  demain seb128
<seb128> desrt, ^ does that happen on fedora as well?
<pedro_> seb128, trying that
<seb128> desrt, if you kill g-s-d the nautilus themes go to the upstream default one and doesn't change back when g-s-d respawns
<desrt> no.  it goes back for me.
<seb128> :-(
<desrt> schadenfreude much?
<desrt> :)
<seb128> desrt, just puzzled on why that doesn't happen on fedora
<seb128> now I need somebody to test on opensuse or debian :p
<seb128> vuntz, ^? ;-)
<seb128> desrt, it could be that we break it somewhat in gtk with a path but I'm not sure which patch that could be
<desrt> seb128: it's hard to tell when there are over 100 :)
 * seb128 slaps desrt
<desrt> surely i'm not being slapped for telling a lie :p
<seb128> you are!!!
<desrt> okay.  over 40?
<seb128> desrt, 21 ones (if you don't count the backports from upstream git)
<seb128> with half being stupid things like fixes from Debian to the static build
<pedro_> seb128, same thing happens here with xchat-gnome (theme problem)
<seb128> pedro_, yes, I know
<seb128> that's why I say gtk rather than nautilus issue :p
<dobey> what was the command to have apport attach stuff to an existing bug report? apport-bug --help isn't being helpful
<pitti> dobey: apport-collect
<pitti> dobey: see man apport-bug
 * seb128 hugs pitti
 * pitti hugs back seb128, how did I earn that?
<seb128> pitti, the precise apport improvements rock
<pitti> seb128: oh, just found a duplicate locally?
<seb128> pitti, I'm very happy about the dup detection and the title update ones
<dobey> ah collect
<seb128> pitti, no, I didn't run into it yet but I saw a bunch of bugs with a decent titles in my bugbox which made me happy ;-)
<pitti> yay
<tkamppeter> pitti, hi
<pitti> hello tkamppeter, how are you?
<tkamppeter> pitti, fine.
<tkamppeter> pitti, I wanted to commit the fix for bug 897723, but BZR (or the Debian repo has encoding problems). See the mail with the debdiff and the error message.
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 897723 in cups "Setting duplex in the print dialog has no effect for some print drivers" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/897723
<tkamppeter> Problem is probably that the OLD version of cpdftocps has non-ASCII characters in comments and due to this the debdiff has them, too, and a recent change seems to have removed UTF-8 support from BZR, blocking commit access to that file.
<tkamppeter> pitti, ^^
<pitti> tkamppeter: I'll have a look tomorrow, I'm about to run out
<pitti> but asking in #bzr can probably not hurt
<pitti> I don't know  about the bzr internals either, I could just try to work around the issue
<tkamppeter> pitti, I will prepare the SRU in the mean time.
<pitti> tkamppeter: that sounds fine, thanks
<pitti> mterry: do you have some cycles for bug 838539?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 838539 in gnome-session "Help button does not work for startup applications help" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/838539
<mterry> pitti, sure
<pitti> mterry: I think a mere _hide() call for the help button will do fine, but it seems our friends at OEM need this
<pitti> mterry: thanks!
<pitti> so, good night everyone! better leave before I fall off my chair and starve, looooong day
<mterry> pitti, :)
<tkamppeter> pitti, commit succeeded, bzr-builddeb is faulty and bzr commit -m "text" is the workaround, got it from #bzr.
<chrisccoulson> yay, armhf build failures \o/
<chrisccoulson> i guess that i actually need to care about those? (unlike ppc)
<chrisccoulson> configure: error: These compiler flags are invalid: -Os -freorder-blocks -fomit-frame-pointer
<chrisccoulson> nice
<chrisccoulson> well, the firefox build is definitely going to fail then
<GunnarHj> seb128: Good evening! Could you please make bug 896796 public? I have prepared a fix based on one of its duplicates.
<seb128> GunnarHj, thanks, pitti already fixed it today I think
<seb128> GunnarHj, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/language-selector/0.59
<seb128> bug #893842
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 893842 in policykit-1 "Move "admin" group to "sudo"" [Critical,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/893842
<seb128> bug #896796
<GunnarHj> seb128: Yes, he did. Should have checked it first... ;-)
<GunnarHj> seb128: Thanks anyway. Btw, did you talk about the accountsservice thing today?
<seb128> no, that wasn't mentioned today, I will talk with pitti about it tomorrow
<GunnarHj> seb128: Ok, great.
<seb128> GunnarHj, but I guess you can try to ping mclasen back on the GNOME IRC about it, just to see what he recommends doing for !GNOME
<GunnarHj> seb128: Ok, I can do that.
<seb128> thanks
<GunnarHj> rodrigo_: Hello Rodrigo. We had a brief talk with mclausen last night about the suggestion to add a region property to accountsservice. http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/752925/
<GunnarHj> seb128: I see two reasons that speaks for handling language and region using the same tool:
<GunnarHj> 1) Easier to ensure that region settings are not surprise changed when you change language and vice versa.
<GunnarHj> 2) We have a migration from ~/.profile to deal with.
<GunnarHj> We are about to leave l-s because it's considered hard to maintain, but there are already important patches in g-c-c, g-s-d, gdm, lightdm...  I'm sure that some differences are justifiable, but some appear to be unnecessary to me.
<dobey> chrisccoulson: is firefox menu bar supposed to be in the unity panel?
<chrisccoulson> dobey, yeah
<dobey> chrisccoulson: i just upgraded to precise on my dell duo, and it is not; it is still in the firefox window
<chrisccoulson> is the extension enabled?
<dobey> i didn't disable any extensions of my own accord
<dobey> chrisccoulson: there appears to be a warning that it isn't compatibile with firefox 9.0
<chrisccoulson> dobey, which version does it say it is?
<dobey> chrisccoulson: the extension or firefox?
<chrisccoulson> the extension
<dobey> 2.0.1
<chrisccoulson> that's why :)
<chrisccoulson> it's out of date. did the upgrade complete properly?
<dobey> all except for an error with doc-base, it appeared to, yes
<dobey> apt-get -f install doesn't do anything
<chrisccoulson> dobey, what does apt-cache policy firefox-globalmenu say?
<dobey> installed version of the package is 9.0~b3+build1-0ubuntu1
<chrisccoulson> hmmmm, that's odd. that has 2.0.2 in it :)
<chrisccoulson> is this the first time you ran firefox after the upgrade?
<dobey> yes
<chrisccoulson> dobey, if you restart firefox again, does it work?
<dobey> no
<dobey> but there are more errors in extensions.log
<chrisccoulson> dobey, ok, what happens if you do "sudo touch /usr/lib/firefox-addons/extensions/globalmenu@ubuntu.com"?
<dobey> i have no idea where they are from exactly though
<chrisccoulson> then restart firefox again....
 * micahg wonders if this is the same issue that thunderbird users are having with gdata
<chrisccoulson> yes
<dobey> no change
<chrisccoulson> hmmmm
<chrisccoulson> dobey, what does /usr/lib/firefox-addons/extensions/globalmenu@ubuntu.com/install.rdf have in it?
<dobey> 2.0.2
<dobey> maxVersion 10.*
<chrisccoulson> ok
<chrisccoulson> and you don't have an old copy of the extension installed in your profile?
<dobey> not afaik; i certainly never manually installed one
<chrisccoulson> dobey, could you please paste me the value of extensions.installCache from about:config somewhere please?
<chrisccoulson> also, would you mind mailing me the extensions.sqlite from your profile?
<chrisccoulson> you can get the right profile folder by going to Help -> Troubleshooting information
<chrisccoulson> this is basically bug 897156
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 897156 in lightning-extension "xul-ext-gdata-provider: Provider for Google Calendar is incompatibilite with Thunderbird 8" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/897156
<dobey> chrisccoulson: installCache has /usr/lib/firefox-8.0/... for both globalmenu and ubufox
<chrisccoulson> dobey, yeah, that's ok, as it's resolved via a symlink
<dobey> chrisccoulson: but there's no /usr/lib/firefox-8.0 directory or symlink?
<chrisccoulson> dobey, yeah, that went after the upgrade
<chrisccoulson> is there no entry in the installCache for the new location?
<dobey> there isn't
<chrisccoulson> ok
<chrisccoulson> would you mind sending me the extensions.sqlite?
<dobey> sure
<chrisccoulson> dobey, then, could you set extensions.logging.enabled to true in about:config, and restart firefox from a console?
<chrisccoulson> and paste what you see :)
<dobey> chrisccoulson: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/754198/
<chrisccoulson> dobey, oh, "read only database"?
<chrisccoulson> you're not browsing it atm are you?
<seb128> chrisccoulson, it's your fault again! is it fixed yet? ;-)
<dobey> no
<chrisccoulson> dobey, interesting
<chrisccoulson> dobey, is there also a journal file alongside it?
<dobey> no; there's ini, log and the db
<chrisccoulson> ok, thanks
<chrisccoulson> so, i'm not sure what's going on there
<chrisccoulson> dobey, for now, could you just move extensions.sqlite to extensions.sqlite.bak or something? firefox will create a new one when you restart
<jasoncwarner_> TheMuso bryceh robert_ancell RAOF no discussion points on the wiki ( https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2011-11-29 ) so skipping meeting. Please make sure to update wiki with update for the week!
<dobey> uhm
<dobey> i think i see the problem
<chrisccoulson> so that might be a different issue to bug 897156
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 897156 in lightning-extension "xul-ext-gdata-provider: Provider for Google Calendar is incompatibilite with Thunderbird 8" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/897156
<chrisccoulson> oh?
<seb128> jasoncwarner_, you can probably restate that, robert_ancell joined after you said it ;-)
<jasoncwarner_> seb128:  :)
<dobey> chrisccoulson: the stupid "your distro is EOL" dialog, and i clicked on the linkâ¦ and update-manager was running under sudo
<jasoncwarner_> restate: TheMuso bryceh robert_ancell RAOF no discussion points on the wiki ( https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2011-11-29 ) so skipping meeting. Please make sure to update wiki with update for the week!
<seb128> chrisccoulson, is there any way I could get datas on the tb bug I got today or to tell it to resubmit what is in the pending dir?
<robert_ancell> works for me :)
<TheMuso> Works for me too.
<chrisccoulson> seb128, i'm not sure about that. how reproducible is it?
<RAOF> Yup.
<dobey> chrisccoulson: looks like the db got owned by root because of that :(
<chrisccoulson> dobey, ah :)
<dobey> chown and now it works
<seb128> western slackers!
<chrisccoulson> dobey, cool, thanks
<chrisccoulson> i thought we might have a reproducer for bug 897156 there ;)
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 897156 in lightning-extension "xul-ext-gdata-provider: Provider for Google Calendar is incompatibilite with Thunderbird 8" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/897156
<dobey> someone should fix that update-manager bug
<bryceh> jasoncwarner_, ok great
<chrisccoulson> heh
<bryceh> jasoncwarner_, just added my items; due to Thanksgiving break wasn't much.
<micahg> chrisccoulson: can we make firefox fail to run under sudo?
<chrisccoulson> probably
<chrisccoulson> but we shouldn't have stuff in the distro that runs it as sudo ;)
<glatzor> dobey, why do run update-manager with sudo at all?
<glatzor> dobey, with the use of aptdaemon it isn't required anymore
<dobey> glatzor: habit; sudo update-manager -d
<micahg> ah, PEBKAC
<chrisccoulson> ok, so i still need to do some head scratching
<dobey> micahg: yes, software :)
<chrisccoulson> heh
#ubuntu-desktop 2011-11-30
<chrisccoulson> ooh, pretty please say it is still marked as incompatible: https://plus.google.com/u/0/108611501090787019364/posts/MQ6CPFX3jme :)
 * chrisccoulson has fingers crossed
<pitti> Good morning
<pitti> tkamppeter_: ah, nice
<didrocks> good morning
<pitti> hey didrocks
<tkamppeter> pitti, hi
<didrocks> good morning pitti
<pitti> didrocks: would you mind uploading nux to precise for bug 754565? then we can release the SRU
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 754565 in unity "Regression: shift+click on a launcher icon to open a new application instance gone" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/754565
<pitti> didrocks: also, do we actually need teh unity task there, too?
<didrocks> pitti: hum, but there was no test for it
<pitti> didrocks: hm, interesting case -- it went through SRU verification, but no formal test
<didrocks> pitti: I mean, no test that will ensure that the quicklist regression won't happen again
<pitti> and there's already an upstream release out there
<pitti> would be nice to have a test for this, of course
<didrocks> pitti: the nux part is already in ubuntu btw, before the final release
<didrocks> pitti: the unity part is still not reviewed, because of no test
<pitti> didrocks: oh? but we have an SRU for that
<didrocks> pitti: the nux part should be rather fix released, fixing
<didrocks> hum, really?
<pitti>        nux | 1.14.0-0ubuntu1 |       oneiric | source
<pitti>        nux | 1.16.0-0ubuntu1 | oneiric-proposed | source
 * didrocks just checked dates
<pitti> which points to that bug
<pitti> but we don't have 1.16 in precise
<didrocks> pitti: let me check
<didrocks> pitti: ok, so this particular fix for nux is already in oneiric (not proposed)
<didrocks> pitti: the milestone says "SRU1" because it was planned to have the unity fix for SRU1
<didrocks> which didn't happen
<didrocks> pitti: are we ok pushing nux to precise? are the alpha1 iso already done?
<pitti> didrocks: so https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nux/1.16.0-0ubuntu1 points to a wrong bug then?
<didrocks> pitti: yeah, my script collects "fix committed" regarding the milestone
<pitti> didrocks: no, not done yet, but these will most likely be the final images
<pitti> so uploading it tomorrow would be better
<didrocks> pitti: as upstream didn't set it to "fix released", it's been collected again, fixing it
<pitti> didrocks: so should I remove 1.16 from oneiric-proposed then?
 * pitti doesn't know what to do with this then
<didrocks> pitti: no, 1.16 fixes some rendering issues that are interested (and a potential crash)
<didrocks> pitti: I think it's been tested for long enough in -proposed to be pushed in both oneiric and precise
<pitti> ok; right, a lot of people regression-tested it by merely using it for a long time
<didrocks> pitti: sorry for the confusion, I was thinking about another fix the "first time quicklist isn't active", which is a hot topic
<didrocks> pitti: yeah, that's why I think it's fine for this one
<didrocks> pitti: but, then, we are blocking any SRU fix to have usptream tests
<didrocks> (as we need to push in precise)
<didrocks> pitti: should I push something like 1.16.0-0ubuntu2 in precise? (it's still the old uploads when I though you were copying the package)
<pitti> yes, that works
<didrocks> ok, will do tomorrow then!
<pitti> merci!
<didrocks> de rien :)
<rodrigo_> morning
<didrocks> good morning rodrigo_
<rodrigo_> hi didrocks
<pitti> hey rodrigo_, how are you?
<rodrigo_> hi pitti
<seb128> hey
<pitti> bonjour seb128
<seb128> hey pitti, how are you?
<pitti> seb128: quite fine, thanks! was happy that nothing blew up over the night
<seb128> ;-)
<pitti> bug 898040 really sucks, but nothing we can fix for a1
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 898040 in ubiquity "Ubiquity crashed while installing Lubuntu Precise (dup-of: 894768)" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/898040
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 894768 in linux "Installation randomly fails with: File "/usr/lib/ubiquity/ubiquity/install_misc.py", line 621, in copy_file targetfh.write(buf) IOError: [Errno 22] Invalid argument " [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/894768
<seb128> pitti, yeah, I see that you are fighting with this one since yesterday
<seb128> is that a kernel bug then?
<pitti> actually already way before that :)  yes, kernel bug
<didrocks> salut seb128
<seb128> lut didrocks, ca va ?
<didrocks> seb128: Ã§a va Ã§a va, et toi?
<seb128> ca va bien ;-)
<didrocks> needing a reboot, brb
<pitti> seb128: can you think of any visible change in precise that we sohuld mention for a1?
<pitti> I have rhythmbox, apport crash reporting, and admin->sudo now
<seb128> pitti, let me think, but I guess out of those you mentioned no, we had no dx uploads at all, no GNOME update, no lightdm update
<pitti> right
<pitti> just loads of fixes
<pitti> seb128: ok, thanks
<seb128> yw
<seb128> RAOF, we are in 2011 ;-) (your new unity tests are copyrighted 2010 ;-)
<pitti> we should _so_ write tests for correct copyright headers!
<pitti> RAOF: but if you still haven't adapted to 2011, don't bother any more; start with 2012 right away :)
<Sweetshark> pitti: we had tests like that in OpenOffice.org once. They broke whenever you changed something (even the copyright year) ....
<Sweetshark> pitti: luckily, we will never use those tests again in LO 'officially'. even better we use the two other test suites that actually make sense by now.
<pitti> bbl
<zyga> does anyone know how to stop automount on oneiric?
<seb128> doh, I can see the rickspencer3's whip on us :p
<rickspencer3> hi seb128 ;)
<rickspencer3> no whip cracking
<seb128> hey rickspencer3 ;-)
<pitti> hey rickspencer3
<rickspencer3> hiya pitti
<pitti> oh, rickspencer3 assigning a bunch of bugs :)
<rickspencer3> sorry pitti
<rickspencer3> I figured you weren't busy enough
<pitti> rickspencer3: no need to be sorry, appreciated
<rickspencer3> hmmm?
<rickspencer3> pitti, seb128 for a bug in indicator-power ... who do I assign that to?
<rickspencer3> Dx Team, tedg, someone else?
<seb128> rickspencer3, ted
<pitti> rickspencer3: jjardon seems to do most of the commits
<seb128> pitti, he stopped contracting for dx around UDS
<seb128> so ted is a better choice
<seb128> he will dispatch if needed
<seb128> I think
<pitti> ah
<seb128> rickspencer3, it's that the bug you pointd on #ayatana you can probably assign it to TheMuso
<rickspencer3> seb128, I did both ;)
<seb128> he fixed a few of the "indicators don't have a11y description" bugs already I think
<pitti> rickspencer3: I mangled bug 891688 enough now; it's mostly cosmetical, so I just debugged it, sent it to upstream, and unassigned
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 891688 in util-linux "mount -o remount always appends options to /etc/mtab even if they already exist" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/891688
<rickspencer3> thanks pitt
<rickspencer3> pitti, thanks pitti ;)
<seb128> pitti, the gnome-control-center datetime panel under unity doesn't use libgweather (just for info)
<pitti> seb128: oh, what does it use then?
<seb128> pitti, it does use http://geoip.ubuntu.com
<seb128> i.e same as ubiquity
<pitti> seb128: so it ships a snapshot of that database then?
<seb128> pitti, no, you need to be online for it to work I think
<seb128> he does online queries
<pitti> I thought I changed my time zone in the plane back then
<seb128> well you probably add different tz defined and stored and switched between those?
<seb128> the completion thing is using geoip for sure, I've been looking at some of the bug with mterry previous cycle
<pitti> I added Orlando on the flight there
<seb128> but maybe they do cache some of the datas
<seb128> pitti, well I'm unsure about the map
<seb128> pitti, but the "add a location" in the second tab is using the geoip stuff
<seb128> I would guess that the text entry on the first tab does the same
<seb128> pitti, what I'm sure is that it doesn't use libgweather, we had that discussion when they designed the datetime stuff, they prefered to use the geoip database
<pitti> seb128: ok, thanks for letting me know
<seb128> well that was a "for info" in any case, nothing important
<seb128> yw ;-)
<rodrigo_> mvo, https://code.launchpad.net/~rodrigo-moya/system-service/fix-877088/+merge/83932
<didrocks> hum, bzr regressed tarmac badly in precise
<didrocks> API changes it seems
 * didrocks had to reinstall the older bzr for now
<mvo> rodrigo_: thanks a bunch! I check it out (in a phnecall currently)
<rodrigo_> mvo, ok, no hurry, moving to other stuff now, so take your time :)
<mvo> ok
 * rodrigo_ lunch, bbl
<seif> didrocks, which gedit will u guys be using
<seif> ?
<didrocks> seif: 3.2 probably
<didrocks> we try to stay on a stable platform for the LTS
<seif> didrocks, hmmmmmm
<seif> didrocks, my latest plugin (the dash) works against trunk
<seif> did not try against 3.2
<seif> although wait
<seif> i am using 3.2
<seif> shit
<seif> hehehe
<seif> its working
<seif> anyhow it went upstream to 3.3 now
<didrocks> seif: nice! :)
<didrocks> seif: it's not the datasource right, it's a independent plugin?
<seif> yeah
<seif> the datasource is in gedit
<seif> its a softdependency
<seif> just compile gedit against zeitgeist
<seif> :)
<didrocks> yeah, that's what we have :)
<didrocks> seif: not quite sure how to get your dashboard though
<didrocks> seif: just opening gedit doesn't give me anything weirdly, there
<seif> didrocks, there is a plugin
<seif> wait
<seif> let me pull it for you
<didrocks> seif: indeed, the datasource one
<dobey> desrt: ping; can you accept my joining ~upstream on launchpad? :)
<desrt> dobey: granted :)
<dobey> thanks
<dobey> huzzah; now lp:glib points at the right thing and isn't 2.5 years old
<desrt> oh.  this problem again.
<pedro_> kenvandine, when you have some time, may you please have a look to bug 304889 ?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 304889 in telepathy-idle "Does not use system proxy settings" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/304889
<kenvandine> pedro_, sure
<pedro_> kenvandine, thanks!
<dobey> can we ship gnome 2.32 as the version for precise?
<seb128> dobey, no?
<desrt> dobey: I LOVE IT
<dobey> desrt: gnome 2.32?
<desrt> the idea of shipping it for precise
<dobey> stable platform where things actually work, ftw.
<desrt> gnome needs to shake things up from time to time to keep y'all on your feet
<desrt> can you blame us?
<dobey> upstreams being inconsiderate pain in my side, ftl.
<mdeslaur> rodrigo_: sorry about that
<rodrigo_> mdeslaur, no problem :)
<mdeslaur> rodrigo_: I apparently lack caffeine this morning :P
<rodrigo_> :D
<seb128> seif, didrocks: gedit version> that's not really decided, we default to stay on 3.2 but we said we would visit mid-cycle standalone softwares to see which ones we would benefit from upgrading and pick a few useful ones most like
<seb128> seif, didrocks: things like eog, gedit, etc are good candidates for things we might be able to upgrade if there is a good reason to do so
<seif> there are no big canges from 3.2 to 3.4
<seif> didrocks, do u use gedit urself
<seif> ?
<seif> didrocks, git@github.com:seiflotfy/gedit-dashboard.git
<seif> use the dashbaor dbranch
<seif> my plgun is in there
<seb128> seif, well, we are waiting to see what comes in the cycle
<seif> my plugin :P
<dobey> seif: get a bigger keyboard, or smaller fingers ;)
<seif> it should be pushed upstream today
<didrocks> seb128: hum, but this is not in the gedit we have,  isn't it? so let's wait to see if we upgrade :)
<seif> dobey, will do
<seb128> seif, like when gtk gets the shell menu thing application will start using the api, we need to see how that fits with unity, we need also to make sure we will upgrade gtk before considering gedit
<seif> oki doki
<seif> my patch works on 3.2 though
<seif> :P
<seb128> didrocks, right, I was just replying to "<didrocks> seif: 3.2 probably"
<seif> i have gedit 3.2 installed and i use my plugin with it
<seif> dobey, sir yes sir
<seb128> didrocks, seif: well in this case it seems it's easier to just backport the patch since that should work fine
<seif> yeppers
<seif> :)
<nessita> hello everyone! /me is back from holidays :-)
<nessita> seb128: hi there :-) is there anything else I need to do to bug #891192?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 891192 in ubuntu "Please sponsor the proposed qt4reactor packaging branch" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/891192
<didrocks> hey nessita!
<nessita> hey didrocks! how is it going?
<seb128> hey nessita
<didrocks> nessita: I'm fine, thanks. Yourself? how were your holidays?
<seb128> nessita, no, you just need somebody motivated to do review and sponsoring, I've to admit I stayed away from it because it has qt in the name and I've no clue about qt
<nessita> seb128: but the one doing the review has to review the source code? I though the review was about packaging only
<seb128> nessita, no, but better to make sure that the stuff build and works as it should ;-)
<nessita> didrocks: my holidays were great! I'm very happy I took them, I realized I needed them more that I thought
<nessita> seb128: I see. Anyone in particular you recommend for me to chase? :-)
<didrocks> nice :)
<seb128> nessita, try mdeslaur maybe, he's patch pilot today
<seb128> nessita, https://www.google.com/calendar/embed?src=6k1e5rq45m1bdqq0n1ge3oqaok@group.calendar.google.com&ctz=Europe/Berlin&gsessionid=OK
<seb128> nessita, or mterry tomorrow if that doesn't work with mdeslaur today
<nessita> seb128: thanks :-)
<seb128> nessita, yw ;-)
<seb128> kenvandine, hey, did you see bug #886056?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 886056 in empathy "Cannot respond to friendship requests from Empathy" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/886056
<kenvandine> yup
<kenvandine> i am going to add that
<kenvandine> i think friday i am going to spend hacking on tp-indicator, so probably have it done then
<lool> Hey there
<lool> gnome-desktop FTBFSes on armhf due to missing libs on the linker command:
<lool> .libs/gnome-desktop-thumbnail.o: In function `gnome_desktop_thumbnail_factory_generate_thumbnail':
<lool> /build/buildd/gnome-desktop-2.32.1/libgnome-desktop/gnome-desktop-thumbnail.c:881: undefined reference to `floor'
<lool> we have a 2.x source package, but there are 3.x sources available, are these not ok to include in Ubuntu for some reason?  (I know we're in freeze of course)
<lool> Ok, I see there's a gnome-desktop3 source; will update the gnome-desktop watch file
<micahg> lool: that's due to this change: http://mail.gnome.org/archives/desktop-devel-list/2011-August/msg00236.html
<lool> Likely indeed
<seb128> kenvandine, thanks, can you comment on the bug saying you will work on it?
<lool> still some sources to port from libgnome-desktop-dev
<lool> banshee gnome-desktop-sharp2 gnome-launch-box gnome-mag gnome-python-desktop icewm libdesktop-agnostic libslab mistelix unity
<lool> surprized about unity though
<seb128> lool, is there any reason armhf is any different from other archs there or did we just didn't test rebuild since?
<seb128> lool, gnome-desktop is gtk2, gnome-desktop3 is gtk3
<lool> seb128: I don't think it differs on this, probably would appear on other arches
<seb128> lool, the world is not going to be ported to gtk3 in a year, I guess we will keep both for a while ;-)
<lool> seb128: Yup; the number of source packages to port is relatively small it seems
<seb128> lool, well, one is enough, you probably remember gtk1 and gnucash ;-)
<lool> haha
<lool> seb128: unity is staying gtk2 for LTS?
<seb128> lool, no, unity is gtk3 since oneiric
<mdeslaur> @pilot out
<seb128> lool, what keep gtk2 on the CD is basically firefox and libreoffice (and some small stuff like openssh, xdg-user-dirs, etc)
<mdeslaur> gah
<seb128> mdeslaur, wrong channel :p
<mdeslaur> seb128: yes :P
<seb128> mdeslaur, did you help nessita btw? ;-)
<mdeslaur> seb128: I took a look, but I'm not sure about the licensing issue there.
<nessita> mdeslaur: what do you mean?
<lool> seb128: Hmm unity bdeps on both libgnome-desktop-dev, and libgnom-desktop-3-dev, ?
<mdeslaur> nessita: I'm not enough of a licensing expert, someone will need to see if we can ship qt4reactor which is MIT with twisted which is MIT and pyqt which is GPL
<seb128> lool, seems like a packaging bug, blame didrocks :p
 * lool phones didrocks immediately
<seb128> ;-)
<didrocks> what what? :)
 * didrocks backlogs
<seb128> didrocks, you have a call
<lool> didrocks: unity bdeps on both libgnome-desktop-dev, and libgnom-desktop-3-dev,
<seb128> didrocks, pick up the phone, it's lool, he's unhappy ;-)
<nessita> mdeslaur: any idea who can know about that?
<didrocks> lool: oh, how rude! :)
 * didrocks checks
<mdeslaur> nessita: I was just trying to figure that out :)
<mdeslaur> nessita: I was told to ask in #ubuntu-release
<pitti> good night everyone!
<nessita> mdeslaur: joining so I can learn as well :-)
<didrocks> hum hum, indeed
<seb128> 'night pitti
<nessita> bye pitti!
<didrocks> pitti: have a good night pitti :)
<didrocks> lool: ok, fixed :)
<lool> didrocks: thanks  :-)
<didrocks> lool: yw, but 2 is better than none, isn't it? :)
<seb128>  /msg didrocks, the trick to get lool back doing desktop work is working
<seb128> ups :p
<lool> hehe
<didrocks> seb128: writing to me in english? hard to believe :p
<seb128> ;-)
<micahg> can someone look into this please: https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/897952, I'm happy to provide more info
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 897952 in dbus "dbus-daemon uses a large amount of CPU" [Undecided,New]
<micahg> between that an zeigeist, I'm running at least 1 CPU all the time
<micahg> s/CPU.core/
<didrocks> have a good night everyone!
<seb128> micahg, can you use dbus-monitor to see what is spamming the bus?
<seb128> micahg, could be bug #774071 (indicator-datime)
<micahg> checking
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 774071 in indicator-datetime "Indicator-datetime-service renders 100% CPU usage" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/774071
<seb128> like if that's that usually killing indicator-datetime stop the issue
<lool> I pushed a gnome-desktop FTBFS fix to the bzr branch for after A1
<seb128> lool, thanks
<dobey> btw, is glib 2.31 coming in anytime soon, or are we sticking on 2.30 for P?
<seb128> dobey, it will come after a1
<dobey> seb128: darn. there will be a LOT of FTBFS at that point then
<seb128> dobey, why?
<dobey> seb128: it removes some API that was deprecated
<seb128> no way
<dobey> particularly, g_thread_init
<seb128> you probably build with G_DISABLE_DEPRECATED?
<dobey> seb128: no, there's no g_thrad_init in http://git.gnome.org/browse/glib/tree/glib/gthread.h
<micahg> seb128: I don't have indicator-datetime running, still looking at dbus-monitor
<seb128> dobey, it's in glib/deprecated/etc/...
<seb128> dobey, they moved the included in a deprecated dir
<dobey> oh
<dobey> ok
<micahg> seb128: seems to be a lot of calls to the volume monitor
<seb128> who is doing those?
<seb128> do you use gnome-system-monitor or nautilus?
<seb128> nautilus --quit?
<micahg> did that, no help, how do I decode stuff like :1.93
<seb128> oh
<seb128> did you dbus-monitor --session?
<micahg> nope :)
<seb128> try that one rather, it's usually the session bus that gets spammed
<seb128> to find what has the id, run d-feet
<seb128> they are listed on the left, if you select it you have the binary on the right
<micahg> seb128: zeitgeist
<seb128> there you go ;-)
<seb128> it's mhr3's fault! or seif's or kamstrup's one
<seb128> micahg, what sort of requests does it do?
<seb128> dbus-monitor should tell you
<micahg> yep, killing zeitgeist ended the assault on my CPU :)
<mhr3> micahg, what version is that?
<micahg> seems to be lots of calls for volume monitor and vfs
<micahg> 0.8.99~alpha1-1ubuntu2
<mhr3> micahg, dbus-monitor/bustle log would be extremely useful
<mhr3> +new bug opened with those :)
<micahg> mhr3: will do, thanks
<seb128> chrisccoulson, m_conley: do you know how to debug the tb notifications? the "you received <nn> new email" notify-osd bubbles often have a crazy counter, like I receive 5 email and the bubble states I received 19639 ones
<seb128> it's correct at some other times, so it's not always off count
<m_conley> seb128: holy smokes that's a big count
<seb128> well the number seems random
<m_conley> seb128: I think chrisccoulson knows that code a bit better...
<seb128> just got a 60k one ;-)
<seb128> m_conley, he said he never looked at the notification code the other day
<m_conley> seb128: oh, wait, hold on
<seb128> *shrug*, I guess none of you know that code then ;-)
<m_conley> seb128: you're talking about libnotify - sorry, was confusing that with Messaging Menu
<seb128> yeah
<m_conley> seb128: yes, I sort of know that code - though it's been a few months
<m_conley> seb128: actually, there's a guy working on fixing up our notifications right now - his name is irving, and you can find him in #maildev on irc.mozilla.org.
<seb128> is there any debug info I can get that would be useful for a bug report? I guess that a bug "the count in the bubble is crazy" wouldn't be very useful by itself
<m_conley> seb128: unforunately, no - that code isn't rigged for debugging / logging.  :/
<micahg> mhr3: bustle-dbus-monitor output is > 60MB already
<mhr3> micahg, no need to run it for 5 minutes :)
<micahg> mhr3: ah, I thought I had to wait for it to complete
<mhr3> micahg, nope, you just ctrl+c it after a couple of seconds
<seb128> micahg, it's like dbus-monitor, it will never complete, it just keeps logging while it's running ;-)
<mhr3> micahg, out of curiosity do you have any unusual devices connected to your computer?
<micahg> seb128: right, I finally realized that
<micahg> mhr3: nope, just headphones ATM
<mhr3> micahg, interesting, also the cpu is consistently 100% when you run zg?
<seb128> mhr3, it seems zg spam the bus enough that dbus is using 100% cpu :p
<mhr3> seb128, didn't i say that the new zg is actually a stress test for dbus-daemon? :)
<seb128> ;-)
<seb128> mhr3, it's a feature right?
<micahg> mhr3: one core is
<micahg> 20% zeitgeist/80%dbus-daemon
<micahg> bug 898305
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 898305 in zeitgeist "zeitgeist-daemon is flooding dbus" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/898305
<seb128> lol
<seb128> mhr3, does that mean that zg efficiency is higher than the dbus one? ;-)
<seb128> like it's consuming less than dbus for the same trafic? ;-)
<micahg> it's 1:5 actually :)
<mhr3> seb128, sure, it's all kinds of awesome ;P
<mhr3> micahg, any chance to find out what process owns :1.158?
<micahg> mhr3: sure
<micahg> are these IDs consistent across reboots?
<mhr3> nope
<micahg> ugh, what about session log out?
<mhr3> no
<micahg> too late then :)
<mhr3> if the process died meanwhile the answer is also "no"
<micahg> would you like another output file?
<seb128> the id of the clients should have changed if they didn't restart no?
<mhr3> micahg, one more thing, does zg output something if you run it via terminal?
<micahg> yes
<mhr3> like constantly something?
<micahg> no, just something at startup ~20 lines
<micahg> I can pastebin or attach to the bug
<mhr3> micahg, pastebin pls
<mhr3> there probably won't be anything interesting in that case...
<mhr3> seb128, i'm afraid it's an issue deeper in the stack
<micahg> http://paste.ubuntu.com/755241/
<mhr3> seb128, apps using GVolumeMonitor coming to mind?
<mhr3> yea, nothing interesting really
<lool> is there a gtk3 / gnome3 gtk2-engines?
<seif> micahg, can u print out dbus-monitor stuff for zeitgeist
<seif> ?
<seif> micahg, what apps do u have open right now
<micahg> seif: if you tell me how :)
<micahg> seif: unity-3d, d-feet, xfce4-terminal
<nessita> mdeslaur: I had to reboot at some point, did you have any feedback re: qt4reactor package/licensing?
<mdeslaur> nessita: no, no feedback yet about licensing
<mdeslaur> nessita: i wouldn't worry too much about it though, licensing is probably ok
<mdeslaur> nessita: I didn't get past that step, could you ask the next patch pilot to actually look at your package?
<nessita> mdeslaur: I will, tomorrow. Thanks :-) (I'm worried since we're kinda blocked on that package in order to package some QT stuff)
<seif> mhr3, what is the best dbus-monitor command to monitor all zeitgeist traffic
<seif> ?
<mdeslaur> nessita: twisted didn't want to bundle it because of licensing issues, but it may be ok since it's in a separate package but someone better qualified than me should make that decision
<nessita> mdeslaur: right, thanks!
<seif>      micahg r u running zeitgeist right now?
<micahg> yes
<seif> ok good
<seif> micahg,                                     dbus-monitor "interface='org.gnome.zeitgeist.Monitor'"
<seif> type that into a terminal and give me the output in 5 minutes
<seif> (is zeitgeist still overusing ur cpu?)
<micahg> yes, it's constant
<seif> did u run the command i told you
<micahg> it's running now, only one thing so far
<seif> hmmmmmmmmmmmm
<seif> hmmmmmmmm
<seif> micahg, can u do killall zeitgeist-datahub
<micahg> no change except for a little more debug output
<seif> fuck
<seif> i fear unity could be requesting constantly from zeitgeist
<seif> -.-
<seif> micahg, try                                dbus-monitor "interface='org.gnome.zeitgeist.Log'"
<seif> if its going batshit crazy then we can trace it from here
<micahg> seif: same issue with Xfce
<micahg> and only 1 thing with that second dbus-monitor query
<seif> micahg, what do u mean by same issue with xfce
<seif> ?
<micahg> seif: I get the same CPU spike with xfce, it's not just with uniyt
<micahg> *unity
<seif> micahg, ok one more thing 1) killall zeitgeist-daemon   2)  cp -r .local/share/zeitgeist to .local/share/zeitgeist-backup 3) zeitgeist-daemon --replace
<mhr3> micahg, pls run just `python -c "from gi.repository import Gio, GLib; ml = GLib.MainLoop(); vm = Gio.VolumeMonitor.get(); print vm.get_volumes(); ml.run()"`
<mhr3> and see if it uses 100% cpu
<micahg> mhr3: no
<micahg> seif: it's no longer eating up CPU
<mhr3> micahg, so my command actually fixed it? :)
<micahg> mhr3: no, I think it's seif
<seb128> lool, no
<mhr3> micahg, make sure by restarting session :)
<micahg> was just going to ask if I could at this point
<seb128> lool, well not by default for gtk, we have one (unico) for our theme
<seb128> lool, gtk is only using css theming
<lool> seb128: I see there are newer GNOME upstream releases of it, that's why I was wondering
<micahg> mhr3: heh, it's back :)
<mhr3> micahg, try my cmd
<lool> seb128: I guess I'll just backport the FTBFS fix for gtk2-engines rather than move to the latest one
<seb128> lool, no
<seb128> lool, the theming got totally reworked in gtk3
<seb128> lool, they moved from their old engine and gtkrc to css themin
<seb128> theming
<lool> there's a 2.91 gtk-engines upstream http://ftp.gnome.org/pub/GNOME/sources/gtk-engines/2.91/
<micahg> mhr3: nope, still high
<seb128> lool, the goal I think is to not need engines but give enough flexibility over css
<seb128> lool, right, that's around the time they landed the css work ;-)
<lool> 2.90.3 says  - Port to GTK+ 2.90 (thanks to Bastien Nocera and others)
<seb128> lool, which deprecated the need for it
<lool> ok, might be worth packaging the latest gtk2 version of it I guess
<mhr3> micahg, :(
<seb128> lool, well, I think we have the current one
<seb128> lool, 2.91 was for gtk3 at a time where gtk3 didn't have css
<seif> micahg, what did i miss
<seif> mhr3, what did i miss
<mhr3> seif, the universe almost collapsed
<micahg> seif: your thing fixed it for the session only, when I logged out and back in, I had the same issue
<seif> what why
<mhr3> micahg, can i get you to attach also a half-second of dbus-monitor to the bug?
<seif> micahg, ok then do the same thing but instead of restarting zeitgeist log in and out again or restart the session
<micahg> straight dbus-monitor?
<mhr3> micahg, yep
<seif> micahg, today i will have nightmares if we dont know what the problem is
<seif> lol
<mhr3> micahg, your night is gonna suck then :)
<micahg> seif: nope, session restart brings it back
<seif> that makes no sense -.-
<seif> mhr3, where do we try to access the volumes
<mhr3> seif, sorry that was for you ^^
<lool> seb128: Ok, so 2.9x ones are useless now and we'll keep it as it is until gtk2 dies?
<seb128> lool, that's my understanding yes
<lool> Ok
<micahg> which is at least 2 more years :)
<mhr3> lool, so how often people accidentally ping you when they laugh? :)
<micahg> mhr3: attached
<mhr3> micahg, thx
<lool> That happens more often than for mhr3
<mhr3> lool, i can imagine :)
<seb128> mhr3, oh, you should ask how often people ping him when they want to know about the libreoffice online version :p
<seif> micahg, can u do "find / -name 'zeitgeist'" or me
<seb128> lool, I'm disappointed that googling for "lool" return libreoffice stuff before you btw!
<lool> seriously
<lool> they've displaced me
<lool> I used to be one the first page of results for lool -- rightfully so!
<lool> but now everyone says lool for lol
<lool> these young people
<seb128> yeah, you should just sue them for it!
<lool> I'll install one of these high-pitch noise producer on my webpage
<seb128> ;-)
<seb128> 'night
<micahg> seif: did you want all the permission denied entries as well?
<mhr3> micahg, try something crazy - eject the cd you have in your cd drive :)
<RainCT> CD drive? What's that?
<micahg> mhr3: heh, that did it :)
<mhr3> RainCT, something we didn't account for when developing zeitgeist ^^
<RainCT> mhr3: I don't even have one :P
<mhr3> let me try if i can reproduce this
<micahg> ooh, it's so quiet now :)
<seif> micahg, wont hurt
<micahg> seif: we found the issue, it's the CD in the drive
<seif> micahg, lol
<mhr3> micahg, that was audio cd right?
<micahg> mhr3: indeed
<mhr3> micahg, was it playing or something, or just sitting there?
<micahg> just sitting there AFAIk
<seif> mhr3, the storagem onitor is not implmented yet
<seif> what is the problem
<mhr3> micahg, well there's some odd interaction between gvfs and zg, but i have no idea why, we're not trying to read it
<seif> the only thing though would try that is the storage-monitor.py
<RainCT> seif: Bluebird
<RainCT> seif: I did implement USB and stuff, just network was missing iirc
<mhr3> seif, if you have audio cd, try to reproduce it
<mhr3> i dont have any here
<RainCT> mhr3: can't reproduce it with an external DVD reader
<seif> mhr3, what do u think the issue is
<lool> I've commited a FTBFS fix for gtk2-engines in lp:~ubuntu-desktop/gtk2-engines/ubuntu for upload after A1
<chrisccoulson> hi m_conley and seb128
<chrisccoulson> sorry, went out to the christmas market :)
<chrisccoulson> bah, the tabbar is totally broken in todays firefox nightly
<chrisccoulson> i suppose that's not too bad, having not had a real problem for several months
<AlanBell> anyone know about the global menu?
<AlanBell> and indicators for that matter
<JanC> AlanBell: know what about hem?
<TheMuso> AlanBell: Yes, what about them?
<AlanBell> just wondering about them all being tickboxes when read by orca
<AlanBell> everything is "$name tickbox not ticked"
<TheMuso> AlanBell: I'm aware of it, and I'm on it.
<TheMuso> AlanBell: Fixing that as part of my work to allow for extra info to be spoken about network names in network-manager etc.
<AlanBell> cool, thanks
<TheMuso> np
#ubuntu-desktop 2011-12-01
<pitti> Good morning
<TheMuso> Morning pitti.
<pitti> hey TheMuso, how are you?
<TheMuso> pitti: Not too bad thanks, yourself?
<pitti> pretty good, looking forward to releasing A1 today
<pitti> TheMuso: do you have a sec for some bug questions?
<TheMuso> pitti: Sure.
<pitti> TheMuso: so it seems bug 790240 made some progress, there's just one package left
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 790240 in java-access-bridge "at-spi needs demotion for precise (at-spi2-core in main)" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/790240
<pitti> java-access-bridge
<pitti> do you know the status of getting that to at-spi2?
<TheMuso> pitti: java-atk-wrapper replaces java-access-bridge.
<pitti> ah, so we need to MIR that
<TheMuso> I filed an MIR< and it was approved.
<pitti> nice
<TheMuso> It just needs something to depend on it, i.e openjdk.
<pitti> TheMuso: can openjdk-6-jre be changed to use that then?
<pitti> it currently depends on libaccess-bridge-java-jni
<pitti> and so does openjdk-7-jre
<TheMuso> So far as I understand, yes. I'd need to find some java app that works via accessibility to be sure.
<TheMuso> pitti: Yeah I believe that java-atk-wrapper is a drop-in replacement.
<pitti> TheMuso: nice! are you on this and coordinating with doko?
<TheMuso> pitti: I've talked to doko about it, but no actino has been made on this yet.
<pitti> TheMuso: we just need to swap the dependency?
<TheMuso> pitti: Yes.
<pitti> TheMuso: ok, thanks
<TheMuso> np
<pitti> TheMuso: my other question is about bug 810721
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 810721 in at-spi "at-spi-registryd crashed with SIGSEGV in gconf_client_get_default()" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/810721
<pitti> this is apparently fixed in at-spi2
<pitti> but it sounded like the fix could be adapted to at-spi as well
<pitti> it's probably not that important for precise any more, though?
<didrocks> good morning
<pitti> hey didrocks
<didrocks> guten morgen pitti, how are you?
<pitti> I'm quite fine, thanks! how about you?
<pitti> looking forward to releasing A1
<didrocks> I'm fine, thanks! I think I finally almost got over the flu. Was quite sticky this time :)
<pitti> eek, that took a looong time!
<didrocks> indeed, I guess all this busy week-end didn't help to cure
<didrocks> but since the week before UDS, I will have my first real week-end now :)
<pitti> eek, that took a looong time!
<pitti> oops, -EFOCUS
<chrisccoulson> good morning everyone
<pitti> hey chrisccoulson
<chrisccoulson> hi pitti, how are you?
<pitti> quite fine, thanks!
<didrocks> good morning chrisccoulson!
<didrocks> how are you?
<chrisccoulson> hi didrocks
<chrisccoulson> i'm good thanks, how are you?
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: I'm fine thanks :)
<chrisccoulson> ooh, todays firefox daily is built already. time to upgrade and hopefully it's usable again :)
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: btw, I see a lot of changes in thunderbird theme right now
<didrocks> like, the left treeview is grey now
<chrisccoulson> didrocks, yeah, that's intentional
<chrisccoulson> there aren't any other changes are there?
<didrocks> ok, just to ensure :)
<didrocks> well, thread with new messages are underlined
<didrocks> instead of being bold
<didrocks> I think this is a new thunerbird feature
<chrisccoulson> yeah, i noticed that too. i can't remember whether that was the case before though :)
<chrisccoulson> i thought that something looked different in the thread pane
<didrocks> it wasn't I guess
<didrocks> as I've been shocked as well :)
<chrisccoulson> didrocks, you're on precise now aren't you?
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: indeed
<chrisccoulson> ok, so you're running the same version as me :)
<chrisccoulson> i keep thinking about running thunderbird daily builds, but i'm not sure i'm brave enough yet
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: not on precise yet? :)
<didrocks> heh
<TheMuso> pitti: Not for precise, no.
<seb128> hey
<pitti> hey seb128
<seb128> pitti, howdy, how are you?
<pitti> seb128: I'm great, thanks!
<chrisccoulson> when can i start uploading again? :)
<chrisccoulson> i've got new firefox and thunderbird beta releases to do
<pitti> waiting for a kubuntu alternate result, but will time out for that RSN
<pitti> chrisccoulson: I think I'll do a cut in two hours and lift the freeze
<chrisccoulson> pitti - cool, thanks
<seb128> chrisccoulson, hey, how are you?
<chrisccoulson> hi seb128. yeah, i'm good thanks, how are you?
<seb128> I'm good thanks!
<TheMuso> pitti, seb128, is the GTK 3.3/3.4 API anywhere close to being frozen yet? I think I may need to propose an extension to the GtkMenuItem API to help with some dbusmenu a11y work I'm doing.
<seb128> TheMuso, no quite close
<seb128> TheMuso, you should talk to desrt, he's working on landing the gmenu stuff upstream and make it used in gtk
<TheMuso> seb128: Right, will catch him in the morning then.
<seb128> TheMuso, which is going to be used then in dbusmenu (but probably not for the lts)
<TheMuso> Right.
<seb128> pitti, did you look at,fix the retracers?
<pitti> seb128: oh, are they broken again? I didn't get amil
<pitti> mail
<seb128> pitti, they don't seem so but I'm looking at a i386 apport bug opened 8 hours ago which is not retraced yet and I was wondering why
<seb128> pitti, do we retrace precise yet?
<pitti> ah, I think I know why
<pitti> ERROR: KernelCrash processing not implemented yet
<pitti> 12/01/11 09:17:07: retracing #897539 failed with status: 99
<pitti> seb128: yes, since day 1 :)
<seb128> retrace pool now: set([897539, 898501, 898207, 898155, 898412, 898171, 897747, 898423, 898456, 898043, 898431])
<seb128> pitti, it doesn't go to the next one? just bail out on the kernel one?
<pitti> apparently so
<seb128> pitti, ok, so I've my reply ;-)
<seb128> pitti, should I just untag that or do you want to properly look at the "bug" to make it skip the kernel bug and continue with the next one rather than bailing out?
<pitti> seb128: already at it
<seb128> pitti, thanks!
<pitti> aaaand committed
<seb128> lol
<seb128> that's efficient ;-)
<pitti> and pulled
<pitti> next run should be good
<seb128> pitti: "made of awesome" ;-)
<pitti> "no time like the present" :)
<pitti> seb128: fortunately a1 looks pretty good, so I'm currently working on stable+1 stuff
<pitti> seb128: http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/tmp/main-promotions.svg FYI
<seb128> pitti, oh, right, you start your rotation today
<seb128> enjoy!
<pitti> to make http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/component-mismatches.txt easier to read
<pitti> seb128: thanks!
<seb128> pitti, nice one ;-)
<seb128> pitti, that could probably be ueful for pedro as well, he's working on a dashboard for the desktop team, I suggested that he could include the packages not building and the components mismatch for desktopish packages on it
<glatzor> hello seb128 pitti and mvo
<glatzor> mvo: I prepared a patch for the akward aptdaemon dialog sizes https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/aptdaemon/+bug/892607
<pitti> hey glatzor, how are you?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 892607 in aptdaemon "Details window poorly resizes on expanded details" [High,Confirmed]
<glatzor> pitti, Having a cold. but otherwise fine! yourself?
<pitti> glatzor: I'm great
<pitti> thanks
<mvo> glatzor: awsome, thanks! I take care of this now
<seb128> hey glatzor, mvo
<mvo> glatzor: precise upload will have to wait for alpha1, but oneiric is fine for a SRU
<mvo> glatzor: hm, does not seem to apply cleanly against the oneiric version, lets see
<pitti> @ALL: soft freeze lifted, upload away
<pitti> mvo, seb128 ^
<seb128> pitti, danke!
<pitti> chrisccoulson: ^
<didrocks> go go go :)
<chrisccoulson> pitti, excellent, thanks
<mvo> cool! thanks!
<nessita> hello everyone!
<mpt> mvo, hi, do you think <https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-p-improve-upgrade-experience> should be targeted for P?
<pitti> hey nessita, how are you?
<nessita> pitti: pretty good! you? :-)
<pitti> nessita: I'm fine, thanks!
 * mpt waves to nessita
<nessita> hi mpt!
<mvo> mpt: yes, but someone from the desktop team should approve it if its a desktop spec
<mvo> mpt: should be all really reasonable
<mpt> mvo, as in jasoncwarner_?
<mvo> mpt: yeah, jason or maybe pitti
<mpt> pitti has the advantage of being here now :-)
<pitti> mvo: accepted for precise, set myself as approver (I generally approve desktop-* stuff); once you are happy with it, please set it to "review" or "pending approval"
<seb128> well, approving is one thing, having somebody working on it is another... mvo? ;-)
<pitti> yes, the WIs are between mvo and mpt
<pitti> mvo: NB that there is a rather invalidly looking Work item "- If the OS is no longer supported, "Don't Upgrade" does the same thing as..."
<pitti> Sweetshark: you said that you had a precise libo for sponsoring? I don't see it in ~bjoern/
<pitti> Sweetshark: freeze is lifted now, so we can upload
 * pitti -> lunch
 * rodrigo_ lunch
<GunnarHj> seb128, pitti: Hi guys! Any news about accountsservice, region property and GNOME?
<seb128> hey GunnarHj, hum, no, but good that you are there earlier than the other days ;-)
<seb128> we can probably catch pitti when he's back from lunch and then mclasen
<GunnarHj> seb128: Ok. I haven't much time today, though, just half an hour or so.
<seb128> GunnarHj, well, thanks for the reminder, pitti just went for lunch but I will talk to him about that when he's back
<GunnarHj> seb128: Great. Can you please ping me then?
<seb128> GunnarHj, will do
<Sweetshark> pitti: uploading
<pitti> re
<pitti> chrisccoulson: mozjs going to universe is ok?
<chrisccoulson> pitti, yeah, that's fine by me :)
<nessita> is mterry coming today?
 * nessita is desperately chasing patch pilots
<Sweetshark> pitti: upload finished
<pitti> Sweetshark: thanks! (BTW, you don't need the orig.tar, they are already in the archive)
<dobey> what's with all these mails on devel-discuss about unity and classic?
<dobey> nessita: what do you need a sponsor for?
<nessita> dobey: the qt4reactor initual packaging branch
<dobey> oh
<seb128> nessita, hey, you managed to summon him it seems :p
<dobey> hehe
<nessita> seb128: pathc pilots run away from me :-.
<nessita> :-/
<dobey> pitti: can you push the libubuntuone in oneiric-proposed to oneiric-updates? it's been sitting in proposed for 5 weeks, apparently due some confusion on the bug between it and banshee, as the fix is 2-part :(
<seb128> nessita, did you hear back from skaet or mdeslaur yesterday about the license issue?
<nessita> seb128: nopes, last thing was that skaet was gonna check, but no news on that front
<pitti> Sweetshark: thanks, uploaded
<seb128> nessita, check with skaet maybe then before chasing a sponsor, that license issue needs to be sorted first
<nessita> seb128: right
<dobey> what is the license issue?
<pitti> dobey: bug 851044 hasn't been formally verified, but I guess it's been tested enough now, and the other bug is; moving
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 851044 in libubuntuone "Banshee.exe crashed with SIGABRT in g_cclosure_marshal_VOID__VOID() / while using Ubuntu 1 Store." [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/851044
<dobey> pitti: ah, that bug was also fixed in webkit; but i also changed libubuntuone to not crash, when the webkit fix isn't present
<dobey> and i had forgotten that bug was also linked to the update; i got pinged about the other bug yesterday, and didn't realize it was still sitting in proposed :(
<mdeslaur> dobey: twisted is MIT, qt4reactor is MIT, but pyqt is GPL
<mdeslaur> dobey: twisted doesn't ship qt4reactor because they say it's a licensing issue
<dobey> oh
<dobey> so qt4reactor needs to be GPL; and either way twisted can't ship it
<seb128> mterry, welcome back!
<dobey> which is odd
<mterry> seb128, :)  Don't load me up yet though, I'm on pilot duty today
<mdeslaur> dobey: it's complicated because it's python, but a library, and can be a "derivative work", etc.
<pitti> mvo: can you please change software-center's depends for python-gobject -> python-gi? (upload isn't urgent at all, storing to bzr is fine)
<seb128> mterry, yeah don't worry, feel free to ping if you need or want work though, I've plenty of small things and bugs, I'm sure you can like some of those ;-)
<cyphermox> howdy
<dobey> mdeslaur: right, though i think the GPL is clear in it's viral nature; if pyqt changed to LGPL, it wouldn't be a problem though
<cyphermox> seb128: same thing, any small things/small bugs you want me to look at before I dive into NM to start my work items?
<mterry> seb128, I need to also catch up on my own work items from being a month away.  I probably will not pursue extra work for a bit.  But I can gladly grab things for you if you have an excess
<dobey> pitti: i take it that's a debian change, not an upstream package renaming?
<nessita> dobey: why qt4reactor needs to be GPL? it import pyqt on a try-except, and it defaults to pyside if pyqt is not present
<mdeslaur> dobey: yep, but pyqt isn't going to do that :) that's why there's pyside
<pitti> dobey: right; it only ships the "gi" module now, so it's more appropriate and actually adheres to the python policy
<seb128> cyphermox, hey, I didn't even notice you were in +1 until yesterday when pitti said you were coming back ;-)
<dobey> mdeslaur: right
<cyphermox> I know...
<pitti> dobey: also, this will actually allow us to see which packages still need GI migration
<cyphermox> but then is that good or bad? ;)
<dobey> nessita: because pyqt is GPL; try/except doesn't really matter
<seb128> cyphermox, mterry: you guys should do an after +1 blog post of summary or something, I would be interested to know what +1 did during its first month ;-)
<pitti> seb128: cjwatson sent a summary, but only to some people in private; perhaps he should re-send that to u-devel@
<pitti> it was really interesting, but of course I don't want to send it on his behalf
<dobey> pitti: yeah; would be nice if GI actually provided all the API though. and if upstream weren't so obnoxious
<pitti> heh
<seb128> pitti, ok, thanks, I would be really interested to see what people are doing then, I guess it would be useful as well for other who consider doing a rotation there ;-)
<seb128> cjwatson, ^
<nessita> dobey: ok, so I'm lost. The qt4reactor code itself is MIT, so we can't change it to GPL. You mean the packaging code I'm adding should be GPL?
<dobey> nessita: i mean upstream needs to fix the licensing problem
<dobey> nessita: and technically, we can actually release it as GPL; but it really should be done as an upstream change
<dobey> nessita: or well, it can just drop pyqt and only use pyside, but i'm sure you wouldn't like that :)
<mdeslaur> dobey: but then it's used by twisted, which is MIT, so you just move the problem to twisted
<nessita> dobey: I still don't see the licensing issue to escalate it to upstream, they need the reactor code (which they write) to be compatible with twisted
<nessita> dobey: they just import pyqt, and handle it not being there
<nessita> so pyqt is not strictly a dependency
<nessita> dobey: so, for example, our code that uses both, is GPL, which is correct
<nessita> because MIT + GPL => GPL
<dobey> mdeslaur: not quite; at that point it's a plug-in; it's still hairy but apps using qtreactor would need to be GPL, though twisted wouldn't necessarily.
<mdeslaur> nessita: pyqt is probably considered to be "bindings" by the GPL FAQ
<mterry> seb128, I feel like cjwatson did some interesting infrastructure stuff.  But I mostly just fought with various ftbfs  :)  not glamorous enough for a post I think
<dobey> nessita: it doesn't matter if they handle it not being there with the try/except or not
<nessita> dobey: apps using qt4reactor and pyside do not need to be GPL
<nessita> mdeslaur: ^
<dobey> nessita: yes it's annoying, and yes it's hairy
<mdeslaur> nessita: so, if you patch the pyqt4 import out of qt4reactor, problem is solved
<mdeslaur> nessita: but I suspect that's not what you want to do
<dobey> no, we use pyqt
<nessita> mdeslaur: not at all, since we use that :-)
<dobey> so that doesn't help :)
<nessita> mdeslaur: and we're GPL, which is fine
<nessita> we == Ubuntu Onre
<nessita> One*
<mvo> pitti: sure, fixed in bzr
<pitti> mvo: danke
<pitti> I've done the same for a few other packages, but don't upload anything except computer-janitor (as there I might just forget to upload it later)
<dobey> nessita: basically, it seems upstream needs to change the license to GPL, or drop pyqt support
<nessita> dobey: I know I'm not a licensing expert, but I think that too strict. I still don't see why qt4reactor has to deal with the gpl-ity pf pyqt
<nessita> is a responsibility of the users os qt4reactor
<nessita> of*
<dobey> nessita: because they use it
<nessita> dobey: they don't use it necessarily
<nessita> dobey: the code can work without it, using pyside
<dobey> nessita: it's not a plug-in.
<nessita> dobey: let's make it be a plugin
<dobey> nessita: if it was a plug-in system with the pyqt support being another package, that might be fine
<nessita> dobey: let's split that then, should be fair simple, no?
<dobey> i suspect not, no
<nessita> dobey: why not?
<nessita> mdeslaur: would you please link me to what you mentioned re: bindings?
<mdeslaur> nessita: http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#IfInterpreterIsGPL
<nessita> mdeslaur: I'm reading the FAQ and what I found about bindings is related to running programs on GPL interpreters
<nessita> mdeslaur: right, I'm reading that, and I don't think that applies to this case, no?
<nessita> our interpreter is not GPL
<dobey> nessita: the interpreter (python) license is irrelevant in that statement about bindings
<mdeslaur> the interpreter is python, pyqt is the binding between python and QT. Since pyqt is GPL, apps that use pyqt need to be GPL also.
<dobey> nessita: the bindings statement is purely about what is being interpreted
<nessita> mdeslaur: agreed, so Ubuntu One is GPL. But qt4reactor does not necessarily uses pyqt...
<mdeslaur> but, I'm not the one that is knowledgeable about these things. All I wanted to do yesterday was figure out who in Ubuntu gets to make the licensing decision.
<nessita> mdeslaur: right, so skaet is the person to ask details about this, then?
<dobey> what does the DFSG say?
<nessita> dobey: can you please check?
 * dobey prefers to just assume the world will end in 386 days anyway, so it probably doesn't really matter
<mdeslaur> hehe
<nessita> mdeslaur: so, shall we re-ask someone in ubuntu-release or shall we ping someone in particular?
<mdeslaur> nessita: wait a bit, skaet just arrived, let's see what she says.
<nessita> mdeslaur: right :-)
<dobey> nessita: a simple solution would be to just have upstream dual-license it
<nessita> dobey: how does double licensing work? I mean, what they need to do?
<mdeslaur> dobey: well, MIT is GPL compatible...it doesn't need to be specifically GPL licensed I don't think
<mdeslaur> not that I know anything about this :P
<dobey> mdeslaur: it's GPL compatible (GPL apps can use MIT code), but it doesn't work the same the other way 'round. MIT apps can't use GPL code (since GPL requires anything linked to GPL to be GPL, save the system lib clause, which pyqt doesn't fall under)
<mdeslaur> dobey: ah! that makes sense
<dobey> but a dual license here would help (if you use pyqt it's GPL, if you use pyside it's MIT); though i don't know if upstream is willing to do it
 * mdeslaur nods
<dobey> if not, the next best solution might be to just ship it as GPL, which i think is perfectly fine legally so long as we maintain (c) notice in the code
<jincreator> pitti: Hi. Do you remember my bug report about ttf-nanum?
<pitti> hey jincreator; sure
<pitti> or fonts-nanum as it is called these days
<jincreator> pitti: Yes, Package name is changed.
<jincreator> pitti: And also fonts-nanum-coding include fontconfig setting. But both fontconfig snippet is not working at Ubuntu in my test.
<jincreator> So, I was thinking about remove 69-language-selector-ko-kor.conf and patch fontconfig-config package.
<jincreator> But if Japanese and Chinese users are agree and help, I think we can remove entire fontconfig hack for CJK users in language-selector by modify fontconfig-config. What do you think about it?
<pitti> jincreator: is that known to not work in Debian as well?
<pitti> jincreator: I wonder if language-selector's hacks destroyed the package's fontconfig file somehow
<jincreator> pitti: In my test, it is working well in Debian.
<pitti> so I guess we need to remove the hacks from language-selector then?
<jincreator> pitti: I think "lang" option in fontconfig is not working at Ubuntu.
<pitti> jincreator: strange, we have the same fontconfig version as in Debian
<pitti> jincreator: so you already ruled out that language-selector installs an extra hack which breaks this?
<jincreator> pitti: No, I don't mean language-selector destroy another package's fontconfig file.
<jincreator> pitti: I don't know why it happen at only Ubuntu even it use same fontconfig version with Debian. And I didn't see bug report about it. But, bug 884645 looks like it is happening to ja locale.
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 884645 in language-selector "Improvement for ja-jp conf (69-language-selector-ja-jp.conf): measure for ttf-unfonts-core side-effects" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/884645
<pitti> jincreator: hm, I'm afraid I'm useless there as well; fontconfig is a mystery to me :(
<jincreator> pitti: fonts-nanum's fontconfig snippet is only work when locale is "ko". But it looks this function is not working in Ubuntu. So I'm trying to remove this snippet and use another fontconfig(i.e fontconfig-config, language-selector, ...).
<pitti> jincreator: so it seems we should really fix that function then
<jincreator> pitti: Yes.
<pitti> instead of moving around the conffiles and permanently diverging from debian
<pitti> jincreator: note that we want to get rid of the l-s fontconfig hacks entirely
<pitti> as we move to gnome-control-center
<jincreator> Well, I think 69-language-selector-ko-kr.conf is no more needs anymore. Because I didn't see any Korean Ubuntu users notice bug 879069.
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 879069 in ubiquity "language-selector doesn't automatically link fontconfig files for CJK users" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/879069
<jincreator> And actually fontconfig-config has almost same settings. So I think we can remove this file. But, I'm not sure about Chinese and Japanese fontconfig hack.
<pitti> jincreator: ok, thanks; is there a bug for the non-working locale selection with a fool-proof description how to test this?
<kenvandine> mterry, do you have time for another easy MIR review?  another requirement for empathy, bug 898693
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 898693 in telepathy-farstream "[MIR telepathy-farstream" [Low,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/898693
<mterry> kenvandine, sure
<pitti> jincreator: please feel free to subscribe me to that (sorry, need to run now)
<kenvandine> mterry, thx :)
<jincreator> pitti: Sorry, I didn't see any more bug report about it at now. But if I find, I will subscribe you.
<pitti> jincreator: thanks; or just create one, we can dupe it later
<pitti> so, good night everyone!
<kenvandine> pitti, can you look at the gnome-keyring SRU again?
<kenvandine> pitti, nevermind :)
<kenvandine> good night!
<jincreator> pitti: Good night!
<cyphermox> seb128: bkerensa expressed interest in desktop work, I don't know if he has shown up in here before, but I suggested he did
<seb128> cyphermox, I don't think he did, or not while I was around
<cyphermox> aye
<seb128> 'night pitti
<seb128> cyphermox, re. small things to work on, do you want to get some bugs assigned or do you prefer to focus on NM to get the workitems cleaned earlier in the cycle and do bugs later in the cycle?
<seb128> cyphermox, we have nothing urgent but enough bugs to keep busy (and help on merges is welcome as well)
<seb128> mterry, ^ same for you, help on merging,upgrading stuff on versions which are not green is welcome
<cyphermox> guess I'll sprint on my WIs, it's all small ones so with some luck I can have a good head start in a week
<cyphermox> also, updating NM and nm-applet in precise will already get rid of two red items ;)
<seb128> cyphermox, seems like a plan, if you get bored or want to do something easy on the side do a few merges on free slots and that should already be good help for us ;-)
<cyphermox> sure
<seb128> cyphermox, speaking of n-m do you know what are the upstream plans for this cycle? do you plan to track a new version or to stay behind as we do for GNOME?
<cyphermox> tonight is ubuntu hour, if nobody shows up I'll have plenty of time for merges
<cyphermox> plan is to stay on 0.9, but I think upstream isn't going all that aggressively either
<cyphermox> but there's so many goodies I'd like to have in.. zone support (firewalls, etc.), vlan, bonding, etc.
<seb128> cyphermox, ok, I was mostly mentioning it to make sure you know that we will default to stay on GNOME 3.2, in case you planed to track a new n-m which might try to force us to pull new GNOME components we didn't plan to update
<seb128> cyphermox, we will update the platform, i.e glib, gtk probably (we need to sort some details for gtk)
<cyphermox> modemmanager will probably also get updating to the latest crack, but since nothing but NM touches it, it's safe
<cyphermox> ok, I'll keep that in mind
<cyphermox> so generally, gnome-control-center is the most sensitive I think
<seb128> yeah, and one of the most annoying one as well, I think we will default to backport what we need from 3.4 for it
<cyphermox> I also already fixed up daily builds, so I can know in advance
<seb128> great
<seb128> lool, hey
<seb128> lool, do you know about dh-autoreconf?
<seb128> lool, we moved from autoreconf patches to that for ~ 1.5 years ;-)
<seb128> lool, I'm just mentioning it, in case you didn't know, it has dh and a cdbs integration, so it's usually one rules like to change,add and a build-depends on dh-autoreconf (and often one on gnome-common as well for GNOME stuff)
<seb128> tedg, hi, do you know if bug #785852 is a bug in indicator-application or libappindicator?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 785852 in indicator-application "Menu reordering does not work" [Low,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/785852
<tedg> seb128, I'd be surprised that doesn't work.... but, if so, it's a bug in dbusmenu-gtk
<seb128> tedg, well I can confirm that the example from the bug has the issue
<seb128> tedg, i.e https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/indicator-application/+bug/785852/+attachment/2136524/+files/bugtest.cpp
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 785852 in indicator-application "Menu reordering does not work" [Low,New]
<seb128> but maybe gtk_menu_reorder_child () is a weird way to do it :p
<seb128> tedg, ok, reassigning there then
<tedg> seb128, Hmm, it should work... I'm confused why it wouldn't.  A signal must be getting compressed somewhere.
<tedg> It sends a remove and an add on reorder.
<seb128> tedg, thanks, it seems like a good bug for mterry to look at if he's getting bored after his sponsoring today ;-)
<seb128> mterry, ^ do you want to take on this one? dbusmenu issue, menu not getting the right order in the indicator after a reorder()
<tedg> Heh, I loose sleep at night worrying that mterry might get bored ;-)
<seb128> lol
<mterry> seb128, i can look a bit today yeah
<seb128> mterry, no need to be today, I will assign it to you, thanks ;-)
<mterry> tedg, seb128: guys, you are thinking about this too much.  I've got aisleriot, I'm fine, really
<seb128> lol
<seb128> just give a deck of cards to mterry, that's all he needs to be happy ;-)
 * desrt notes GNOME copying papercuts
<kenvandine> papercuts was a good idea
<desrt> indeed
<desrt> good ideas deserve copying :)
<desrt> (and refinement)
<seb128> desrt, sure, GNOME always copy Ubuntu after a few years ;-)
<desrt> seb128: papercuts was obviously a copy of gnome-love :p
<desrt> mfisch: hey
<HOHOHaney> where is the current list of gnome external dependencies?
<seb128> desrt, virtuous cycle? ;-)
<HOHOHaney> is libproxy on it?
<mfisch> desrt: hey
<desrt> seb128: i like to think so
<desrt> mfisch: what are you doing around these parts?
<desrt> oh god.  do you work for canonical now?
<mfisch> desrt: well I work for canonical now and do some ubuntu on the side
<mfisch> desrt: but
<mfisch> desrt: I have no idea who you are ;)
<desrt> ya.  you're a different mfisch than i thought you were :)
<mfisch> desrt: well, nice to meet you anyway
 * desrt knows a matthew fisch who is 'mfisch' on efnet
<desrt> nice to meet you too :)
<seb128> HOHOHaney, good question, glib-networking is using it so I guess it's on the external dependencies list
<seb128> not sure where they keep that list nowadays though
<seb128> desrt might know
<desrt> jjardon is more likely to know
 * desrt isn't really a GNOME guy
<seb128> HOHOHaney, desrt: there is a "meebey" who just asked the same question on #gnome-hackers
<seb128> so let's see if somebody reply there ;-)
<jjardon> seb128: HOHOHaney yeah, Its a external dep
<jjardon> http://git.gnome.org/browse/jhbuild/tree/modulesets/gnome-suites-core-deps-3.4.modules#n869
<didrocks> ok, time for dinner and some rest!
<didrocks> see you tomorrow (and on Monday seb128)
<kenvandine> tedg, did you know that dbusmenu-bench is broken?
<kenvandine> looks like it missed getting updated when there was an API change
 * kenvandine guesses people don't actually use it :)
<lool> seb128: dh-autoreconf > I've seen it around, but didn't actually trust it TDTRT  :-)
<lool> seb128: I had recently a case once where it seemed to break the build unless I avoided certain things, but anyway, I should give it a try; thanks for the pointer
<seb128> lool, we use it pretty much across the board for desktop for over a year if that brings any extra confidence
<lool> Ok
<desrt> seb128: how does dh-autoreconf interact with maintainer mode?
<desrt> makes it irrelevent i guess?
<seb128> yeah, pretty much
<desrt> i like it!
<seb128> lol
<lool> :-)
<seb128> you rather hate maintainer mode
<seb128> that's different ;-)
<desrt> i hate distros telling me to set it one way or another :p
<desrt> so anything that allows distros not to care is a friend to me
<lool> sadly, needing all the autotools at build time kind of makes the whole design useless :-/
<desrt> would also be really extra cool if i could remove 1MB of shell from the glib tarball
 * desrt replaces ./configure with a script that echos "autotools muckerfucker.  do you have it?"
<TheMuso> desrt: You may have seen my conversation earlier with seb128 about GTK 3.4, and possibly needing to extend the MenuItem API to help with some a11y dbusmenu work I'm doing. Do you have a few minutes to talk about it? THis extension would also benefit a11y for upstream network-manager applet for one.
<lool> plus all the Makefile.ins
<TheMuso> c/
<desrt> TheMuso: thanks for mentioning about 4 things that i'm interested in within a single sentence
<desrt> TheMuso: does this have to do with the 'accessibility role' attribute that gets set differently depending on which menuitem subclass you have?
<TheMuso> desrt: No, it has to do with setting an alternative accessible name if there is extra informatino that the menu item icon is conveying to the user, the network-manager network list being a prime usecase.
<TheMuso> I.e network name as the menu item label, icon as signal strength/security.
<TheMuso> We need a way to convey that textually to Orca users etc.
<desrt> it strikes me that this doesn't have a whole lot to do with dbusmenu
<TheMuso> No it doesn't, but I need to extend Dbusmenu's API to work with whatever the final solution is in any case.
<desrt> understood
<desrt> do you have a proposal?
<desrt> "dlink [Insecure, 91% signal]" sort of thing?
<TheMuso> That is what the desired end result is, yes.
<desrt> sounds like you want an alt="" tag for the image
<TheMuso> Is that possible with a menu item icon?
<desrt> no
<desrt> not for any particular reason -- we just didn't think about it
<TheMuso> Didn't think so, which is essnetially what I'm getting at with needing to extend GtkMenuItem.
<desrt> why not open a bug against gtk about it?
<TheMuso> Ok will do.
<desrt> TheMuso: you could also pop into #gtk+ to discuss it
<TheMuso> Actually, I'm on gimpnet, I might do that.
#ubuntu-desktop 2011-12-02
<desrt> smspilla1: hey
<desrt> smspilla1: mfisch is trying to track down a bug whereby on ubuntu, gdk_beep() doesn't do anything
<mfisch> g'day smspilla1
<desrt> smspilla1: mutter has code that intercepts the beep and either displays it as a visual flash and/or causes libcanberra to play a beep sound
<desrt> http://git.gnome.org/browse/mutter/tree/src/core/bell.c
<desrt> smspilla1: does compiz have a plugin to try to do something similar?
<mfisch> smspilla1: under ubuntu, the beep only works if a) pcspkr module is loaded and b) xset b on was run
<desrt> he may not quite be awake yet.  he's on the west coast :)
<desrt> or he may be at lunch.  i guess it's noon there.
<mfisch> desrt: timezone website says 1pm
<mfisch> desrt: that's about beer-o-clock in .au on a friday ;)
<desrt> mfisch: it's actually 7:30 in that case
<desrt> they hang their clocks upside down in australia
<desrt> mfisch: could also be that he actually decided to go to school today :)
<pitti> Good morning
<RAOF> desrt: There's a longstanding bug on compiz for that.
<smspilla1> desrt: yes
<smspilla1> desrt: its not on by default
<smspilla1> desrt: I also need to ask you something
<smspilla1> desrt: is there any reason why, after an execvp (), writing to a pipe that is O_CLOEXEC (that I set up at the start of my main loop) on a signal causes the relevant gmain source not to have its prepare () function called ?
<smspilla1> (I'm using glibmm if there are any known issues there)
<smspilla1> desrt: school is also finished :p
<desrt> smspilla1: hold on a second.  it's taking me a little while to parse that sentence :)
<smspilla1> mfisch: but yeah, you're looking for ..
<desrt> smspilla1: so if you execvp() then you no longer get to write to your O_CLOEXEC pipe...
<desrt> that's sort of the point
<desrt> so i think i'm misunderstanding the question
<smspilla1> desrt: right, well, I call pipe () as soon as I set up my main loop
<smspilla1> so it  gets set up again no problem
<desrt> the mainloop no longer exists after the exec...
<desrt> the entire old process image gets blown away
<smspilla1> oh, sorry I forgot to add
<smspilla1> we are execvp()'ing ourselves
<smspilla1> (apparantly you're supposed to do it on SIGHUP)
<smspilla1> (minor detail ;-))
<smspilla1> and if I test it with something like write (myPipeWriteEnd, "h", 1); and then do poll (myPipeWriteEnd) poll () returns and I can read data from the pipe
<desrt> so if all your fds are O_CLOEXEC and you're exec()ing, it doesn't matter
<desrt> it's as if you started fresh
<smspilla1> but glib never calls the prepare function after execvp
<desrt> smspilla1: can i see some code?
<smspilla1> desrt: yeah, maybe I included too much irrelevant information
<smspilla1> desrt: sure
<desrt> smaller is better, as always :)
 * smspilla1 snickers
 * desrt prefers the exit-on-SIGHUP approach (and wait until dbus reactivates you)
<smspilla1> mfisch: https://github.com/hypodermia/compiz-bell-plugin
<smspilla1> desrt: ok, hang on
<smspilla1> desrt: I think the SIGHUP probably comes from the X Server in this case
<smspilla1> compiz was written before dbus really existed
<desrt> smspilla1: you should get that plugin in the distro...
<smspilla1> desrt: yeah I should, it keeps dropping off my stack
<desrt> smspilla1: waiting for dbus activation isn't really appropriate for a window manager, either :)
<desrt> mfisch: problem solved, then.... (as soon as smspillaz finds time)
<smspilla1> desrt: and weirdly enough david was opposed to it because it was "putting too much stuff in the compiz process"
<smspilla1> mfisch: oh on that
<smspilla1> mfisch: you're probably going to have to remind me every day
<smspilla1> :)
<smspilla1> this thing has a tendency to drop off my stack
<desrt> smspilla1: hey
<desrt> smspilla1: did you remember about the compiz bell plugin?
<smspilla1> desrt: what's a bell ?
<smspilla1> successful troll is successful
<desrt> +1 counter-troll
<desrt> smspillaz: you have until i'm done brushing my teeth and flossing
<desrt> then i'm going to bed :p
<smspillaz> kk
<smspillaz> the awkward moment where you can't find your own code
<smspillaz> ah here we go
<smspillaz> desrt: https://code.launchpad.net/~smspillaz/compiz-core/compiz-core.fix_894639-test
<smspillaz> (its still pushing to it sadly)
<smspillaz> desrt: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~smspillaz/compiz-core/compiz-core.fix_894639-test/view/head:/src/screen.cpp#L166
<smspillaz> so if I do poll on signalPipeFds[0] it returns and says there's stuff that's ready
<smspillaz> but the relevant source for it which is
<smspillaz> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~smspillaz/compiz-core/compiz-core.fix_894639-test/view/head:/src/screen.cpp#L288
<smspillaz> never actually gets called
<smspillaz> but *only* after an execvp
<smspillaz> so execvp -> set up pipe -> set up source -> signal -> closeDown -> write -> (prepare not called)
<smspillaz> as opposed to the normal startup case where prepare is called
 * mfisch is catching up...
<smspillaz> (I am writing to it from the signal handler btw, since that's the only safe way I think think of delivering the fact that the signal happened to the main loop)
<smspillaz> (while the main loop is still polling for events)
<smspillaz> (whihc never actually wakes up in the case I'm testing it in because we're using a fake X server to do compiz testing)
<desrt> closeDown() is in the signal handler?
<smspillaz> yeah
<desrt> asprintf supposedly because it's signal-safe?
<smspillaz> for debugging
<mfisch> RAOF & smspillaz: do you have a bug number for the beep issue?
<smspillaz> mfisch: not one off the top of my head
<mfisch> smspillaz: would it be against compiz?  I'll go look around
<desrt> smspillaz: okay... let me get this straight
<desrt> smspillaz: you have a pipe pair marked as O_CLOEXEC
<smspillaz> yes
<desrt> and you write to the write end
<desrt> then immediately call execvp()
<smspillaz> uh, no
<desrt> okay.  good.
<smspillaz> its more like
<smspillaz> pipe -> mainloop -> SIGHUP -> closeDown -> write -> mainloop -> (signal pipe wakes up) -> g_main_loop_quit () -> execvp (ourselves) -> repeat -> SIGTERM -> write -> mainloop (source never gets prepare called)
<RAOF> mfisch: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/compiz/+bug/301174
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 301174 in pulseaudio "Use proper sound event instead of system beep" [Wishlist,Fix released]
<smspillaz> (I have another question about g_main_loop_quit but I'll save that for later)
<mfisch> RAOF: thanks.
 * mfisch goes to bed satisfied
<desrt> mfisch: nite
<smspillaz> desrt: I guess if there's no obvious "no you can't do that" I should probably single step gmain.c to see what the problem is
<smspillaz> I'm guessing its probably a problem with my code
<smspillaz> in some very weird way
<desrt> i just don't understand what could possibly be the difference between a normal exec and the re-exec
<desrt> unless you foul up the argv or the environment
<desrt> exec is pretty much a clean-start
<smspillaz> yeah, that's whats confusing me too
<desrt> argv, the environment or leaked file descriptors should be the only thing that goes across
<smspillaz> ok, single stepping it is then
<smspillaz> desrt: also meant to ask
<smspillaz> desrt: If you have sources A, B and C, and B and C are stuck in poll () and have never been dispatched before and then A gets an event and calls g_main_loop_quit ()
<smspillaz> is it normal that B and C remain stuck in poll and the mainloop doesn't actually quit ?
<desrt> smspillaz: you may be interested to know that glib has unix signal watches these days
<desrt> smspillaz: see g_unix_signal_add()
<smspillaz> desrt: cool, I'll look into that
<smspillaz> (the documentation says "if there are sources still waiting to be dispatched, g_main_loop waits on them)
<smspillaz> (so right now I have this awkward workaround which immediately dispatches and force fails all sources as soon as a g_main_loop_quit happens)
<desrt> smspillaz: it doesn't really work like that...
<desrt> assuming you have no threads, poll() is only ever running when nothing else is running
<smspillaz> s/stuck in poll/returns to poll/
<desrt> so if you're calling g_main_loop_quit() then, by definition, nothing is stuck in poll
<desrt> nah..
<smspillaz> hm ok
<desrt> the loop won't poll again after g_main_loop_quit()
<smspillaz> thats at least what I've obvserved
<desrt> there was a race about that before
<desrt> but only when threads were involved
<desrt> and i think the race is fixed now
<smspillaz> hmm
<smspillaz> ok, I'll have another look
<smspillaz> desrt: It could be that glibmm's Glib::MainLoop::quit () is broken
<mfisch> desrt & smspillaz: thx for the assistance
<desrt> mfisch: no prob
<desrt> smspillaz: imho, glibmm is not worth the trouble
<desrt> i'd just use glib's C API directly from C++
<smspillaz> desrt: yeah I've noticed some ... weird stuff about it
<smspillaz> desrt: though the C API is awkward to use directly
<smspillaz> or at least, it doesn't fit our object model that well
<desrt> smspillaz: the C API is awkward to use from C too :)
<smspillaz> desrt: I think glib is just awkward really
<smspillaz> or maybe I'm awkward
<smspillaz> and glib is really cool
<desrt> glib is pretty good for what it is
<smspillaz> :p
<desrt> it's pretty hard to make C look like an object-oriented language though
<desrt> so some awkwardness is necessarily implied :)
<smspillaz> desrt: http://images.cheezburger.com/completestore/2011/12/1/d5fb6962-c9c0-4095-8bcb-9a9140340b66.jpg
<smspillaz> :3
<smspillaz> desrt: I dunno, I'd like to think that we can get nice C++ bindings to G*, but being able to do that is really hard
<smspillaz> desrt: anyways, g'night :)
<smspillaz> I read through the documentation for gmmproc this morning and
<smspillaz> yeah
<smspillaz> my brain hurt
<broder> ugh, but gmmproc is doing so much more work than it needs to these days
<broder> i really, really wish somebody had a tool that generated C++ bindings using GI
<smspillaz> oh there isn't one ?
<smspillaz> hmmmmmmmmmmm
 * smspillaz plots
<broder> well, there's smoke-gobject/gobject-consume/whatever it's called
<broder> but that's not really functional
<broder> and gmmproc requires pre-writing .hg and .ccg input files that are basically pre-processor food
<smspillaz> yeah  Isaw
<broder> (so with gmmproc you're basically binding everything by hand)
<smspillaz> when I was reading the gmmproc documentation I was kind of like
<smspillaz> oh taht
<smspillaz> *that
<smspillaz> "haha"
<broder> smspillaz: anyway, have to run, but if you were to write a tool that built gobjectmm-based bindings using just GI information, that would be *so* *cool*
<broder> and i'd be happy to try and help
<smspillaz> I can see desrt sitting somewhere in Canada screaming "use a real language!" :p
<broder> C++ is a real language!
<broder> C++11 even more so!
<pitti> broder: even more so, it's like the union of ten languages
<pitti> if only it had a sensible way of handling ABI stability
<smspillaz> _ZICanHaveAGoodABITooC8bp9_R3w
<pitti> smspillaz: or the really nasty habit of putting constructors in .h files, it's insane
<pitti> *cough* apt *cough*
<RAOF> Well, where else are you going to put them? :)
<pitti> RAOF: that's an obvious answer
<pitti> "in your face" of course, everytime it blows up
<RAOF> It's always fun when the .h file has a mixture of class declarations and inline functions.  Hello, nux!
<pitti> having a ctor like "MyClass(): member1(0), member2(NULL)" might look nice and convenient, but it's utter insanity whenever you have to add a new private member to a class
<pitti> with that, changing private members effectively breaks ABI
<RAOF> Well, yes.
<smspillaz> pitti: yeah, I usually try to keep code out of headers in compiz too
<smspillaz> though there are still some places where it is there (left by other people that are not yours truly of course)
<smspillaz> pitti: code out of headers and PIMPL is how I roll
<smspillaz> pitti: I think C++11 brings a standard ABI though doesn't it ?
<smspillaz> although, it still really easy break the ABI
<smspillaz> pitti: C++ would also be nice if template error messages were not hundreds of lines long
<RAOF> Heh.
<RAOF> It would be nice if templates were runtime generated code, too :)
<smspillaz> nah
<pitti> err, what?
<smspillaz> pitti: nope, apparantly it doesn't, must have misread something
<didrocks> good morning
<pitti> hey didrocks
<didrocks> bonjour pitti, how are you?
<pitti> didrocks: quite fine, thanks! had some fun this morning unbreaking the archive
<didrocks> oh? the archive broke after alpha1 unfreeze?
<pitti> software-center was uninstallable, causing all CD builds to fail, plus nautilus-python breaking edubuntu
<pitti> yes
<pitti> well, that's why we have a stable+1 team :)
<didrocks> heh, from day 2, pitti for rescussing the archive! :)
 * didrocks hugs pitti
 * pitti hugs back didrocks
<tkamppeter> pitti, hi
<pitti> hey tkamppeter
<tkamppeter> pitti, hi
<tkamppeter> pitti, it is about CUPS 1.5.x. The IPP backend has a lot of regressions.
<tkamppeter> pitti, bug 881843, bug 877958, bug 879625, bug 883585
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 881843 in cups "CUPS IPP print to Novell servers error since 11.10 upgrade" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/881843
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 877958 in cups "After every single page on ipp: Unable to get print job status" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/877958
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 879625 in cups "CUPS fails to request authentication when printing over IPP w/ TLS" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/879625
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 883585 in cups "Kubuntu 11.10 -- Network/Local Printers found but cannot print - Unable to get printer status" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/883585
<tkamppeter> pitti, a volunteer, Robert Bradley, tried to fix these and worked with the reporters to get more info.
<tkamppeter> pitti, he also suggested to downgrade the IPP backend to the one of CUPS 1.4.x and tells that this solves the problems.
<tkamppeter> pitti, now I am thinking about doing this in our CUPS package, especially also as an SRU for Oneiric.
<tkamppeter> pitti, on Precise I would then return to the current backend when the bugs are fixed upstream.
<tkamppeter> pitti WDYT?
<pitti> tkamppeter: hm, I thought the new one implied some change in the names/URIs of the printer
<pitti> tkamppeter: if we would go back, wouldn't we change them back and break them again?
<tkamppeter> pitti, I did not know about that. The release notes http://www.cups.org/documentation.php/doc-1.5/whatsnew.html do not tell about that.
<tkamppeter> pitti, from where do you know that.
<pitti> tkamppeter: oh, I'm mixing that up with the USB backend
<pitti> that was libusb vs. /dev/lpUSBnn
<tkamppeter> pitti, the USB backend is fine now after 2 SRUs.
<tkamppeter> pitti, I could quickly prepare a new CUPS SRU package and we could replace the current not-yet-approved one.
<pitti> tkamppeter: would be interesting to see a diff of the USB backend between 1.4.6 and 1.5.0 to see the scope of teh changes
<tkamppeter> pitti, you mean s/USB/IPP/
<chrisccoulson> niiiiiiiiiiiiiiice http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RuIQskGD3u0
<chrisccoulson> good morning everyone
<pitti> tkamppeter: yes, I have it all backwards this morning :(
<pitti> hey chrisccoulson
<chrisccoulson> hi pitti, how are you?
<tkamppeter> pitti, diff is attached to bug 881843, comment #6.
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 881843 in cups "CUPS IPP print to Novell servers error since 11.10 upgrade" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/881843
<pitti> tkamppeter: uh, this looks like a whole rewrite indeed
<pitti> tkamppeter: so, if you think that's best, fine for me; I don't know whether downgrading would potentially break anyone's configuration or setup
<pitti> i. e. if they are using new features of the 1.5 backend
<tkamppeter> pitti, as the release notes do not mention anything, it seems that this is merely only stuff to improve on Mac OS X.
<tkamppeter> pitti, so I will apply it and tell you when the SRU package is ready for approving.
<tkamppeter> pitti, can you already approve the HPLIP SRU? Thanks.
<pitti> tkamppeter: will do an SRU run later today (have some urgent stuff to fix right now)
<pitti> tkamppeter: so you want me to ignore or reject the current cups SRU upload?
<tkamppeter> pitti, please reject the current CUPS SRU upload, I will re-upload it with the IPP backend patch.
<pitti> tkamppeter: roger, done
<chrisccoulson> hmmm, this is depressing - https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/firefox/+bugs?field.tag=test-suite
<pitti> chrisccoulson: are these filed by a bot of your's?
<chrisccoulson> pitti - no, i filed them manually
<chrisccoulson> i should probably figure out a way to do that automatically though
<rodrigo_> hello
<pitti> hey rodrigo_, how are you?
<didrocks> good morning rodrigo_
<Sweetshark> moin desktop world!
<rodrigo_> hi pitti, didrocks
<rodrigo_> and Sweetshark :)
<didrocks> good morning Sweetshark!
<pitti> hey Sweetshark
<pitti> Sweetshark: I have a bug to report
<pitti> openoffice.org 1:3.3.0-7
<pitti> Sweetshark: that is correctly spelled "3:1.3.3-7"!
<tkamppeter> pitti, about bug 897309, some proprietary printer driver packages need gs-esp. Should I simply add a "Provides: gs-es" to the "ghostscript" binary package?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 897309 in ghostscript "Package Â«gs-espÂ» is still needed in Oneric and higher" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/897309
<pitti> tkamppeter: depends; do they have a versioned dependency? if it's just "gs-esp", a Provides: will work fine
<pitti> (meh, gs-esp was many, many years ago)
<seb128> hey
<Sweetshark> pitti: huh?
<pitti> Sweetshark: just kidding
<pitti> hey seb128
<seb128> hey pitti, how are you?
<pitti> seb128: quite fine :)
<pitti> cleaned up after mvo and myself breaking the archive and daily builds yesterday
<pitti> and now working on bug 897680 (ugh)
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 897680 in ubiquity "Precise Desktop 64Bit: libc6 fails to install if "install 3rd party software" is selected" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/897680
<pitti> stable team FTW :)
<seb128> pitti, ;-)
<tkamppeter> pitti, the bug does not say anything about versioned or not, so seems to be better to introduce a dummy package to assure that it works with all drivers.
<pitti> tkamppeter: I'd start with a Provides:
<pitti> tkamppeter: I don't like reintroducing 5 year old clutter for that :/
<pitti> seb128: indicator-me looks obsolete, right?
<seb128> pitti, it is, I though we dropped it in Oneiric?
<seb128> pitti, it got merged in indicator-session
<pitti> seb128: that was replaced with the new session plugin
<pitti> seb128: yes, but apparently re-synced to precise; I'll remove again and blacklist
<seb128> pitti, right, did it come back by some way?
<seb128> oh ok
<seb128> yes, seems about right ;-)
<mvo> pitti: *eeeh* what did I do ?
<pitti> mvo: software-center depended on the new plugins which were in binNEW and universe
<mvo> aha, ok
<tkamppeter> pitti, CUPS SRU re-uploaded.
<tkamppeter> pitti, patch also pushed to BZR.
<pitti> tkamppeter: current version is in testing, so I guess I better upload this
<pitti> tkamppeter: thanks!
<Sweetshark> pitti: /me is in deer-in-headlight-mode. Monday is release branch off.
<Sweetshark> ;)
<pitti> Sweetshark: oh, that's kind of "release time crunch" for LibO then?
<Sweetshark> pitti: yes, the scheduling of LO and Ubuntu never leaves me without a 'release time crunch' ;)
<chrisccoulson> hah, i wish i could say the same for firefox
<chrisccoulson> 24th April - Firefox 12, 26th April - Precise ;)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, it's like the anti-perfect schedule, end of year holidays, hard freeze...
<rodrigo_> brb
<seb128> pitti, help :p
<seb128> bug #898973
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 898973 in gtk+2.0 "package gtk2-engines-pixbuf 2.24.6-0ubuntu6 failed to install/upgrade: './usr/share/doc/gtk2-engines-pixbuf/NEWS.gz' is different from the same file on the system" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/898973
<seb128> seems like lool broke precise as well :p
<seb128> that got 2 bug reports today so I guess it's a real bug somewhere
<pitti> oh dear, that sounds like bug     871083
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 871083 in gzip "gzip -9n sometimes generates a different output file on different architectures" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/871083
<pitti> seb128: only known workaround for that right now is to upload a package with dh_compress -XNEWS, I'm afraid
<seb128> :-(
<pitti> seb128: do you have time to dupe and upload the workaround, or shall I? (I'm a bit tight on time today, need to catch a train later on and finishing up something)
<seb128> pitti, I can do it
 * pitti hugs seb128, thanks
 * seb128 hugs pitti back, you're welcome
<seb128> pitti, "dupe" the bug you mean? I will rather just close it with the workaround with a note the real issue is the gzip one
<pitti> seb128: as you prefer
<seb128> ok
<seb128> I'm on it ;-)
<pitti> I'd dupe it so that we collect all the tasks on the master bug
<pitti> and know what to revert once the real bug is fixed
<pitti> but we can add a task without duping, too
<seb128> pitti, ok, makes sense,  I can do that
<htorque> pitti: hello! about above mentioned bug: i reported it too and it got duped - shouldn't apport have told me that?
<pitti> htorque: I'm afraid we can't do that yet for package install failures
<pitti> the log parsing isn't reliable enough yet to do that
<htorque> ah ok, so just for crashers.
<pitti> as many errors are followups, some are noise, etc.
<pitti> it's not easy even as a human to spot the real root cause
<pitti> tkamppeter: nice, Robert is already sending patches for the regressions to upstream
<lool> seb128: you want me to upload with -XNEWS?
<seb128> lool, if you want to feel free, I'm finishing something and was going to do that next but if you want to do it that's welcome ;-)
<htorque> will -XNEWS also take care of README.gz and changelog.Debian.gz? because they seem to cause trouble too.
<seb128> no, they should probably be added to the -X list
<seb128> lool, ^
<pitti> htorque: is that confirmed?
<pitti> htorque: in libtasn, only NEWS was affected
<lool> the bug and the dup only have NEWS listed
<lool> oh it's in gtk+2.0
<pitti> you can download both .debs, dpkg-deb -x them, and compare md5sums
<htorque> pitti: i removed NEWS.gz and did 'install -f' and it complained about changelog.Debian.gz. removed that too, then it showed the same for README.gz. removed that one and the update worked.
<lool> seb128: So why does it relate to me?  :-)
<lool> hmm E: gtk2-engines-udeb udeb: udeb-contains-documentation-file usr/share/doc/gtk2-engines-udeb/
<lool> grabing gtk+2.0
<seb128> lool, I overlooked the -pixbuf part of the name, or rather confused it with your gtk2-engines upload from yesterday :p
<seb128> lool, sorry :-(
<lool> seb128: see how you blame me for everything!!1!
<seb128> lool, (or in fact it's my secret plan to make you do desktop work ;-)
<seb128> lool, (but sussssh)
<lool> pitti: It's a bit ugly to add these -Xs if it also affects changelog and README  :-/
<lool> Ah cjwatson was looking after it
<pitti> lool: but at least we exactly know what to revert once it's fixed
<lool> pitti: You mean we can grep Contents to find packages to revert?
<pitti> lool: no, I think we should add tasks to that master bug
<lool> oh wow, we moved from gzip 1.3.12 from *2007* to 1.4.0 from 2010
<pitti> lool: but that wasn't it
<lool> pitti: Ok; I hope it's not going to affect too many packages
<pitti> lool: we just never noticed beefore multiarch
<pitti> otherwise I had reverted it already
<lool> pitti: Ok
<pitti> i. e. it's not a regression
<lool> pitti: It's just certain contents?
<pitti> yes
<pitti> and I never managed to reproduce it locally
<pitti> must be something spethial on the buildds
<pitti> different kernel, different file system, I don't know
<pitti> PPAs are fine, local builds are fine with both lucid and precise kernel,e tc.
<lool> oh wow
<pitti> some buildds allegedly run the hardy kernel, I didn't try that locally
<pitti> lool: I suppose it's something like "truncate() doesn't zero blocks under some circumstances" or "some memory pages remain uninitialized when you write the tail" or whatnot
<lool> we don't seem to log kernel version with build logs
<pitti> right, so I could only guess
<lool> proposed https://code.launchpad.net/~lool/launchpad-buildd/log-kernel-version/+merge/84247
<pitti> lool: merci
<pitti> seb128: retracer assertion failure> will have a look on monday, -ENOTIME any more today
<seb128> pitti, ok
<pitti> probably a weird bug which needs to be duped, etc., but need to figure out the logic
<tkamppeter> pitti, SRU for bug 897309 uploaded, precise package will come soon.
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 897309 in ghostscript "Package Â«gs-espÂ» is still needed in Oneric and higher" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/897309
<pitti> seb128: ok, worked around for now, they _should_ be back up until the next gksu crash comes in
<seb128> pitti, danke
<seb128> pitti, what is wrong with gksu?
<seb128> (just curious)
<pitti> bug 898874
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 898874 in gksu "gksu crashed with SIGSEGV in __strlen_ia32()" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/898874
<pitti> the traces all look slightly differently
<pitti> I don't yet have a firm idea where the duplication logic fails
<pitti> it's rather conservative right now with lots of asserts
<pitti> so I'd rather just let it crash again when it happens
<seb128> ok
<pitti> I need to run now, cu later on the train (maybe, I'll mostly work offline)
<pitti> have a nice weekend!
<lool> pitti: Good WE!
<tkamppeter> pitti, all SRUs for this week are uploaded now and ready for approval: CUPS, HPLIP, Ghostscript (10 bugs).
<seb128> ricotz, hey
<seb128> lool, so will you handle gtk or should I have a look? it seems you started on it?
<seb128> pedro_, ola, thanks for the sru verification ;-)
<pedro_> seb128, hello! np, i'm reviewing the ones that need verification today
<seb128> great
<ricotz> seb128, hey
<seb128> ricotz, how are you?
<ricotz> seb128, a bit busy, but fine
<ricotz> seb128, hoping you are fine too
<seb128> ricotz, it would be nice to get rhythmbox updated in precise, do you want to do it? I can do the sponsoring for you
<seb128> ricotz, I'm fine thanks ;-)
<ricotz> seb128, i see, i think you can grab the ppa package, i dont remember making packaging changes though
<seb128> ricotz, ok, are you fine if I sponsor that to precise then?
<seb128> ricotz, is that version working fine for you? ;-)
<ricotz> seb128, i am using it all day, i think the crashes i am getting arent related to rhythmbox, so feel free to sponsor it
<seb128> ricotz, great, thank you
<ricotz> seb128, as usual the tarball contains some patches to have a working "make dist"
<seb128> ricotz, that's fine, did you send those in bugzilla or something?
<seb128> ricotz, btw you should use "snapshot" rather than "release" in your changelog for git snapshots ;-)
<ricotz> seb128, if i recall it correctly fta had an plugin issue, but nothing serious
<seb128> ok
<ricotz> seb128, havent sent them upstream since it is only some uncommented stuff in makefiles and a vala sample plugin problem
<ricotz> seb128, yeah, the version string doesnt contain git so my script puts release in there
 * ricotz needs to strip the "git" to keep the update path with the repo version ;)
<lool> seb128: I had started it, but had started researching the gzip issue instead; doing it now
<seb128> lool, thanks ;-)
<ricotz> seb128, btw, how is it going with glib 2.31.x since you mentioned updating clutter/cogl which would need this newer glib
<seb128> ricotz, today is friday so not the best day for a new glib serie, I think I will upload it early next week
<seb128> ricotz, is the current version working fine for you?
<seb128> i.e no surprise?
<seb128> out of the eog patch we will ned
<seb128> need
<ricotz> mhh, can't think of anything currently
<seb128> ok, that's a good sign ;-)
<ricotz> there were mostly cairo/gtk issues
<ricotz> seb128, did you see problems with the newer tp-mission-control version?
<seb128> no, but I didn't watch closely, kenvandine is probably a better person to ask when he will be online
<ricotz> ah, gnome-system-monitor has a similiar issue like eog
<ricotz> ok
<ricotz> if there arent any reports this tp problem might be caused by glib
<seb128> not that I noticed but I'm not sure many people run precise yet
<seb128> but anyway some bugs is not the end of the world for precise, I just wanted to make sure there is no known stoppers
<seb128> we will figure what to do with issues when we hit them ;-)
<ricotz> seb128, right
<ricotz> better to find them early in the cycle rather than waiting with the upload
 * rodrigo_ lunch
<chrisccoulson> seb128, you should upload glib today. precise is boring right now ;)
<chrisccoulson> i like living life on the edge!
<seb128> chrisccoulson, be my guest and do it!
<chrisccoulson> lol
<chrisccoulson> i can't ;)
<chrisccoulson> probably a good job!
<seb128> you still didn't apply for upload rights?!
<chrisccoulson> not yet. i haven't really needed to recently
<seb128> you need them today see! ;-)
<chrisccoulson> lol
 * desrt yawns
<desrt> smspillaz: get your situation sorted?
<ockham_> hi, anyone feel like reviewing http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/unity-lens-bliss ?
<mdeslaur> Thought of the day(tm): instead of deciding the default desktop applications based on toolkits and programming languages, we should have a valgrind faceoff
<HOHOHaney> L
<HOHOHaney> oops
<seb128> didrocks, can you explain r211 in the nautilus vcs?
 * didrocks looks
<seb128> didrocks, it's used to get the strings translated?
<seb128> or I'm overlooking something?
<didrocks> seb128: hum, I would have thought that, let me check again, but I think we don't preprocess it at all
<seb128> didrocks, we have a patch that add it to the POTFILES.in
<seb128> debian/patches/13_translate_unity_launcher.patch:+debian/nautilus-home.desktop.in
<seb128> didrocks, ^
<didrocks> seb128: oh, ok, my bad then, please revert it
<didrocks> seb128: I tried to look at debian/rules mainly
<desrt> good morning, didrocks, seb128
<didrocks> hey desrt :)
<seb128> didrocks, ok, good, I prefered to check if the .desktop got deprecated and I was overlooking something
<seb128> didrocks, thanks ;-)
<seb128> desrt, hey, good friday to you!
<didrocks> seb128: no no, just didn't see where it was used and thinking that we got the translation from another desktop file. Thanks for looking!
<desrt> happy friday!
<pitti> desrt: TGIF!
 * desrt was quite enjoying this week, actually
<dobey> pitti: hey
<dobey> pitti: you wouldn't happen to have any idea why quilt would just randomly exit in the middle of applying a patch, would you?
<pitti> dobey: urgh
<pitti> dobey: reproducible?
<dobey> and exit cleanly, that is
<pitti> I see how dpatch could, but not quilt
<dobey> pitti: sort of; it happens in the recipe build i'm trying to set up for rhythmbox daily builds
<pitti> dobey: that's with "quilt push", or "quilt push -a", or package build?
<pitti> ah, so during dpkg-source -x ?
<pitti> either way, perhaps stracing reveals an error?
<lool> seb128: Fighting local gtk+ build issue; the first one is fixed (docbook), I'm now getting another one, the first error in the log is from the testsuite, but it seems ignored; anyway, I'd rather fix it, are the new ubuntu_* functions supposed to be in the ABI or not?  they aren't in headers
<dobey> it's quilt push -a -v i tihnk
<dobey> think
<lool> ubuntu_gtk_get_use_overlay_scrollbar, ubuntu_gtk_menu_shell_activate_first etc.
<seb128> kenvandine, ^
<dobey> hrmm, actually, maybe it is being applied, but then is failing to unapply for some reason
<lool> kenvandine: Hey Ken, search for "FAIL: abicheck.sh" in https://launchpadlibrarian.net/86349189/buildlog_ubuntu-precise-amd64.gtk%2B2.0_2.24.8-0ubuntu1_BUILDING.txt.gz
<seb128> lool, they are used only by overlay-scrollbar I think so I'm not sure how public we want them
<lool> kenvandine: the lines with +es are new public symbols; either we want these to be public, then we should have them in a .h and update gtk/gtk.symbols, or we want them to be private, naming them _something should be enough to hide them
<lool> seb128: Ok; will leave it to Ken
<dobey> pitti: unfortunately, i can't strace, as it's on the LP server; i can't reproduce the problem locally :(
<seb128> lool, I would not bother with cleaning for gtk2, those are probably fine to let as it
<seb128> lool, but I'm less perfectionist than you ;-)
 * kenvandine looks
<dobey> pitti: https://launchpadlibrarian.net/86377740/buildlog.txt.gz
<lool> seb128: I'll be uploading now, but I didn't manage to complete a build; I get an error and didn't verify the binaries: dpkg-buildpackage: erreur: fakeroot debian/rules binary a produit une erreur de sortie de type 2
<lool> I think it wont happen on the buildds
<seb128> lool, yeah, if you just changed the rules to add the -X there is no reason runtime should break, just upload ;-)
<pitti> dobey: but I supose 04_pause_button.patch actually does apply cleanly locally?
<pitti> dobey: did you try with bzr-builder?
<dobey> pitti: bzr dailydeb recipe isn't working for me locally, because for some reason it seems to want the rhythmbox branch to be a source package branch with the upstream-foo tags in it :(
<pitti> dobey: uh? well, any of the branch needs to provide a debian/ dir
<pitti> dobey: what does your recipe look like?
<pitti> dobey: it should work locally, otherwise there's little chance of working in LP
<dobey> https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntuone-hackers/+recipe/rhythmbox-dailies
<pitti> dobey: are you trying to merge against ubuntu:rhythmbox?
<dobey> no
<dobey> lp:rhythmbox
<dobey> which is the import of upstream git master
<kenvandine> lool, those have bounced around a bit between being in headers and not... agateau cleaned that stuff up quite a bit last cycle and there was some reasoning for this...
<kenvandine> agateau, do you remember?
<lool> kenvandine: It's inconsistent with other patches where gtk.symbols is correctly patches
<lool> *patched
<dobey> pitti: building manually locally works fine; i can dpkg -S -sa and then pbuilder-oneiric the .dsc and it builds
<lool> seb128: uploaded
<james_w> Patch 04_pause_button.patch does not remove cleanly (refresh it or enforce with -f)
<james_w> make: *** [reverse-patches] Error 1
<kenvandine> lool, yeah... maybe we just need to add them there
<seb128> lool, thanks!
<didrocks> ok, all unity test cases in checkbox now :) Will have to debug checkbox now though :/
<lool> kenvandine: I had a quick look, and given these aren't in headers, I'd rather have them renamed from ubuntu_foo to _ubuntu_foo
<pitti> dobey: can you try with: nest-part packaging lp:~ubuntuone-control-tower/rhythmbox/packaging-dailies debian debian
<pitti> dobey: otherwise you put the *whole* branch into debian/
<lool> kenvandine: If you look at gtk.symbols, it maps to header files
<pitti> dobey: i. e. you'll have a debian/debian/
<james_w> dobey, that doesn't sound like it randomly exiting cleanly in the middle of applying a patch?
<dobey> pitti: the whole branch is only the stuff that's inside debian/
<pitti> dobey: oh, I see
<pitti> (that's unusual)
<pitti> dobey: so, I'm in a train, so I can't try that recipe right now (too little bandwidth)
<pitti> dobey: do you have the error message that it produces locally?
<dobey> pitti: sure
<kenvandine> lool, yeah... i want agateau to weigh in on that, i think there was a reason they need to be public
<dobey> bzr: ERROR: No such tag: upstream-2.90.1+r7750dding file 20/25
<dobey> that last bit is where it screwed up writing to the terminal and bzr branch output got overwritten in the shell
<dobey> the dding.* bit
<james_w> dobey, are you running with --allow-fallback-to-native?
<pitti> dobey: I'm out of my wisdom then :/ but look, james_w to the rescue!
<dobey> james_w: ah no
<james_w> RUN ['bzr', 'dailydeb', '--safe', '--no-build', '/home/buildd/build-47ee96de33267c60c108b9c3ed958637e9ffc494/chroot-autobuild/home/buildd/work/recipe', '/home/buildd/build-47ee96de33267c60c108b9c3ed958637e9ffc494/chroot-autobuild/home/buildd/work/tree', '--manifest', '/home/buildd/build-47ee96de33267c60c108b9c3ed958637e9ffc494/chroot-autobuild/home/buildd/work/tree/manifest', '--allow-fallback-to-native', '--append-version', '~precise1']
<dobey> trying that now
<dobey> but just running the quilt push -a -v then quilt pop -a -R in the tree works fine for me; which is why i'm confused
<james_w> dobey, what about with "fakeroot debian/rules clean" in between?
<dobey> i'll try that in a minute; i've commented out all the patches in series except for one now
<dobey> and it still fails on that one patch; which is a one-line change :(
<dobey> james_w: debian/rules clean rmoves the patches
<dobey> james_w: so i suppose if i run quilt pop now it will fail
<dobey> it seems to be what is runs quilt pop anyway
<james_w> I guess that could be the cause of quilt failing
<dobey> well, it's failing *inside* the "fakeroot debian/rules clean" in the recipe build
<pitti> have a nice weekend everyone!
<dobey> cheers pitti
<mterry> pitti, can you set https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-p-unity-greeter to be a precise goal?  it doesn't show up in work item tracker right now
<seb128> haha
<seb128> mterry, welcome to the club of the people who tried to get .symbols for cpp and gave up on it using -V ;-)
<mterry> seb128, heh.  :)
<didrocks> we should create a launchpad team :)
<charles> seb128, my inbox says you are a bug triaging *machine* :)
<mterry> seb128, I thought I had it.  I used pkg-kde to write a symbols file that had some tags in it, but not enough.  still failed on amd64
<seb128> charles, lol
<seb128> charles, I wish others who do a bit extra triage so I would have less to do :p
<seb128> mterry, btw while you are here, do you want me to take over the gedit 3.2.3 sru?
 * mterry bugs didrocks about reviewing his quickly-gtk3 branch
<seb128> mterry, i've time today for it
<mterry> seb128, did I sign up for that?  I didn't write it down...  sorry  :-/
<didrocks> mterry: s/bugs/hugs rather? :)
<mterry> didrocks, ah yes... typo...  :)
<seb128> mterry, I'm slightly disappointed that you didn't do the compiz sru sponsoring yesterday btw :p maybe pitti will get to it on monday during his turn ;-)
<didrocks> mterry: as you suffer from marshmalling the C++ symbols file as well, I guess it can take some time for looking at your branch!
<mterry> seb128, oh no I do have the gedit sru in my queue
<mterry> seb128, I'll get to it in a bit
<seb128> mterry, no, I signed you up for it in a but comment you probably didn't read :p in fact they worked around the pygobject,snippet segfault
<seb128> mterry, you had that pygobject bug assigned to you
<seb128> mterry, ok, thanks
<mterry> yup, bug
<mterry> 863773
<seb128> mterry, if you have other things to do that's fine, I'm not too busy today so I can do it as well, just tell me
<mterry> seb128, no problem, you keep triaging  :)
<seb128> lol
<asac> heyho
<asac> at some point there was the system -> preferences -> preferred applications thing
<asac> nowadays that doesnt exist anymore :(
<asac> at least i cannot find it
<asac> where can i now switch mailto: and http: mime handler?
<asac> me opens gnome-control-center again in hope to find it
<didrocks> asac: it is in gnome-control-center
<didrocks> asac: the system info
<didrocks> then, there is preferred apps
<asac> didrocks: guys that make absolutely no sense :)
<didrocks> asac: I didn't say it did make sense :)
<asac> i tried _every_ other button in control center
<asac> this one i left out
<didrocks> no every, see, don't lie! :)
 * didrocks hugs asac
<asac> oh no
<asac> i cannot set a custom command there anymore
<asac> i want to make desktop-webmail package work again
<asac> guess it needs a .desktop file
<didrocks> hum, not sure about that one apart from editing the mimeapps file :/
<asac> hmm
<didrocks> or yeah, creating a desktop, should be better
<asac> it has a .desktop file
<asac> ah
<didrocks> hum, and the mimetype is matched?
<asac> MimeType=x-scheme-handler/mailto
<asac> is missing
<asac> odd
<asac> do i need to run something to pick this up if i try it manually?
<didrocks> good question, I would say just put in the standard XDG directory and maybe rerun g-c-c, never tried TBH
<didrocks> mterry: so, gesttings pick the new schemas in XDG_DATA_DIR ?
<asac> let me see
<dobey> for a .desktop file?
<mterry> didrocks, yeah
<dobey> just put the .desktop in /usr/share/applications, and i think there is a trigger that runs the desktop file cache thing
<mterry> (at least that's my memory, it's been a while since I wrote that branch)
<didrocks> mterry: waow, great, I was thinking it was compulsory to add the filename in /etc/dconf/profile/
<dobey> to change the default, just put an override in the gsettings overrides dir i guess
<asac> didrocks: just restarting it didnt help
<asac> didrocks: i changed the .desktop file in applications
<asac> cat /usr/share/applications/desktop-webmail.desktop  | pastebinit
<asac> http://paste.ubuntu.com/757192/
<dobey> asac: you need to run update-mime-database
<didrocks> dobey: this is not about override, this is about trunk testing
<asac> kk
<asac> thanks dobey
<asac> dobey: hmm. wasnte there a more convenient scrip that we call in postinst?
<asac> this one tells me:
<asac> sudo update-mime-database
<asac> [sudo] password for asac:
<asac> Usage: update-mime-database.real [-hvV] MIME-DIR
<dobey> asac: i think there's a trigger that runs if your package has .desktop file in /usr/share/applications, so you don't have to do anything in postinst actually
 * asac tries to think hard
<dobey> asac: update-mime-database /usr/share/applications
<dobey> sudo of course :)
<asac> hmm. i am sure in the past we had a convenient script hat didnt need the dir
<asac> but ok
<asac> i am old anyway
 * ogra_ agrees
<ogra_> :P
<asac> hehe
<asac> sudo update-mime-database /usr/share/applications
<asac> Directory '/usr/share/applications/packages' does not exist!
<asac> so see
<asac> i tell you ... we dont use that :)
<dobey> oh
<dobey> update-dsektop-database
<dobey> sorry
<dobey> got confused with fdo mixing mime and .desktop stuff :)
<asac> yay
<asac> and that is not in PATH
<asac> that sounds more like what i remember
<dobey> [dobey@lunatari:~]: which update-desktop-database
<dobey> /usr/bin/update-desktop-database
<asac> hmm
<asac> well its in path
<asac> strange
<asac> ok thanks
<asac> lets see
<asac> cool
<asac> thanks dobey
<dobey> sure :)
<seb128> hey asac
<seb128> asac, did you get it working?
<asac> seb128: yes. though send link from browser doesnt work (guess a bug)
<asac> but thats on desktop-webmail side ... so thanks
<asac> ok off
 * asac sick
<seb128> asac, take care!
<asac> will do. thanks!
<asac> seb128: oh ... can you tell me what wrapper/api is used when i right click on gnome-terminal and use send mail ?
<asac> xdg-open i guess
<seb128> chrisccoulson, ^ do you know?
<seb128> asac, but I would guess it's gio
<seb128> like it probably triggers the default handler for those urls
<seb128> same story than for the browser
<chrisccoulson> yeah, i'd imagine it's just using gio
<chrisccoulson> nothing sane uses xdg-open
<chrisccoulson> only chrome uses that ;)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, not even firefox? ;-)
<chrisccoulson> seb128, nope :)
<seb128> good ;)
<asac> is there a command line wrapper or just api?
<asac> in any case xdg-open shows the same problem
<asac> as firefox send mail
<asac> and gnome-terminal send mail
<asac> anyway ... will dig a bit deeper
<chrisccoulson> asac, what's the issue?
<asac> chrisccoulson: i am sick ... will ping you over weekend if i feel better :/
<asac> thanks for your helP!
<chrisccoulson> asac, ok, no worries. hope you feel better soon :)
<asac> it is about desktop-webmail
<asac> so most likely nothing important fo ryou :)
<asac> bye
<seb128> lool, it seems your DB2HTML=non-existent broke the i386 gtk2 build
<seb128> well I assume it's that, I don't see what else would have done it
<seb128> chrisccoulson, congrats, you won bug #865490
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 865490 in nautilus-sendto "nautilus-sendto crashed with SIGSEGV in _start()" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/865490
<seb128> ;-)
<chrisccoulson> yay \o/
<chrisccoulson> right, i've got to disappear. travelling round to jo's parents house this evening
<chrisccoulson> sigh :/
 * didrocks waves good night and good week-end!
<didrocks> see you on Monday everyone!
<Sweetshark> chrisccoulson: I was tought it that way: action items always go to the guy who is not in the meeting ;)
<Sweetshark> ... too late
 * Sweetshark is gone for the weekend too.
#ubuntu-desktop 2011-12-03
<ockham_> hi, anyone feel like reviewing http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/unity-lens-bliss ?
#ubuntu-desktop 2011-12-04
<vador_> hey all, not sure if i'm in the right room. anyone got an idea how to get the runtime of a script? eg. time it took my computer to complete a .py script run from termianl
<vador_> got it...
<vador_> $ time ls
<vador_> cya
<jbicha> cdbs: howdy, sushi isn't eligible for official Ubuntu papercuts
#ubuntu-desktop 2012-11-26
<bcurtiswx> robert_ancell out today?
<bcurtiswx> or is he not Australia and/or is australia not awake yet?
<mfisch> robert_ancell: afternoon
<robert_ancell> mfisch, hello
<mfisch> robert_ancell: I was looking into a bug, #1069218, which should be a simple fix, but as far as I see the code that reads that config file is never loaded
<mfisch> load_passwd_file() is the function that I dont see getting called
<robert_ancell> mfisch, correct, this file is only used if AccountsService is not available
<mfisch> so that config file isn't useful when a-s is running
<robert_ancell> mfisch, yes
<mfisch> doesn't look like a-s gives us shell or UID
<mfisch> Background, Icon, Real Name, Home Dir, Username
<pitti> Bonjour
<didrocks> good morning
<smspillaz> duflu: yo, don't merge the branches directly unless you feel like dealing with merge headaches
<smspillaz> (as noted in the description ;-) )
<duflu> smspillaz: I didn't...
<duflu> ?
<smspillaz> duflu: you changed the branch status to "approved" :)
<duflu> smspillaz: Oh yes OK
<smspillaz> np, just changed it back
<duflu> smspillaz: So how to land it all (and backport)?
<smspillaz> duflu: once we get these through we can drop the proposals and merge the one with the conflicts resolved etc
<duflu> Yep fine
<smspillaz> duflu: I wouldn't backport this fix
<duflu> smspillaz: Has to be. It's critical to 0.9.8
<smspillaz> duflu: well, you can if you want to ... but I'll warn upfront that it will be invasive
<duflu> At least in the bug traffic I see :/
<duflu> smspillaz: Yeah that's fine. I'd give it some time in raring first
<smspillaz> kk
<smspillaz> duflu: I'm trying to keep test coverage at 100% as I go along though, so hopefully it won't be too bad
<duflu> smspillaz: So.. holidays huh?
<smspillaz> duflu: My TV is broken and all my friends went back home
<duflu> smspillaz: Fair enough. When is Uni back? late Feb?
<smspillaz> yep :(
<duflu> Hah. Any normal person would be happy.
<smspillaz> hurrah for boredom!
<smspillaz> I will get myself a new TV soonish, although #clickfail made that slightly more difficult
<duflu> smspillaz: I recommend graysonline for a bargain
<duflu> Hmm, sometimes. Not so much right now.
<smspillaz> maybe. I have some friends at JB who can get me some good discounts
<duflu> smspillaz: Or Sony PlayTV --> USB --> Ubuntu
<smspillaz> well, when I say TV, I mean "display"
<duflu> smspillaz: But a regular TV won't give you HD TV in wobbly/cube ;)
<smspillaz> it will let me play zelda though
<smspillaz> or something
<smspillaz> I should get myself one of those though, I've been looking for a TV tuner that "just works"
<duflu> smspillaz: Last week I had problems with CCSM changes not being sent to compiz till I restarted. Can't reproduce it now but possibly related to what you're doing?
<duflu> (using a gsettings profile)
<smspillaz> *shrug*
<duflu> Suspected as much
<smspillaz> duflu: there are so many points of failure that I don't really know what the relevant problem would be
<duflu> smspillaz: Points of failure you found in the recent work?
<duflu> Or that you assume are hiding?
<smspillaz> duflu: are hiding
<smspillaz> sometimes it can get into a weird state where compiz stops receiving settings updates
<smspillaz> it doesn't bother me too much though, I really just mentally downgrade the importance of all bugs to do with changing settings that aren't exposed in g-c-c
<smspillaz> also that "sometimes my focus follows mouse doesn't work" bug really should not be critical
<smspillaz> critical means "blocks the entire distribution"
<duflu> smspillaz: I know the importance of many if not most bugs needs re-evaluation
<smspillaz> duflu++
<smspillaz> duflu: and in other news, I finally have the unity gesture tests working without recompiling 8 fixes every.damn.build \o/
<smspillaz> *8 files
<smspillaz> (even if nothing changed)
<duflu> smspillaz: Gestures? I've had multi-touch devices of some sort for a few years but gestures has not worked on any since 11.04 (when I sold my Macbook Air)
<duflu> I suspect they're turned off for lots of multi-touch systems when they should not be
<smspillaz> duflu: it only works on macbooks
<smspillaz> iirc
<smspillaz> and the XT2
<smspillaz> duflu: get a magic trackpad if you want to try it
<duflu> smspillaz: Hah. Yes, forgot to mention I saw it work on an XT2
<smspillaz> duflu: in any case, yay, no recompiling
<duflu> smspillaz: Got one in the cupboard. So I could finish contributing multi-touch fixes after I sold the Macbook
<duflu> Yay. \o/
<smspillaz> speaking of macbooks the rMBPs sure are pretty
<smspillaz> except the price tag
<duflu> smspillaz: I don't want to know. Already spent too much money lately
<smspillaz> duflu: tell me about it - I put all my money in term deposits after I left canonical
<smspillaz> that reminds me, I need to fix my super too
 * smspillaz is worth approximately 300$ right now, and is hoping that will last until he finds another income stream
<didrocks> bonjour jibel :) FYI, I've now push a fix to deploy_stack so that the right bzr branch is automatically the target of lp:<foo> when using lp-propose. Will be easier than doing that everytime by hand :)
<didrocks> (especially as the indicator branchs have some names like: ~indicator-applet-developers/indicator-messages/trunk.13.04)
<jibel> Salut didrocks
<didrocks> Ã§a va? :)
<jibel> didrocks, Ã§a va et toi?
<didrocks> Ã§a va bien :)
<Laney> hiya
<seb128> hey Laney, hey desktopers
<Laney> hey
<Laney> good weekend?
<didrocks> salut Laney, bonjour seb128!
<seb128> lut didrocks
<didrocks> still busy, but good weekend :)
<didrocks> and you?
<seb128> did you guys have a good w.e?
<seb128> w.e was good here ;-)
<chrisccoulson> good morning everyone
<didrocks> hey chrisccoulson
<Laney> girlfriend's family were up to stay
<Laney> so not relaxing ;-) but was good
<chrisccoulson> hi didrocks, how are you?
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: tired, but fine, yourself? ;)
<chrisccoulson> didrocks, yeah, pretty much the same. had quite a busy weekend
<xclaesse> Hello, is it possible to tell Dash's thunderbird icon to count only inbox emails and not all ML folders?
<pitti> bonjour seb128, comment vas-tu?
<seb128> pitti, salut, ca va ? t'as passÃ© un bon W.E ?
<seb128> hey chrisccoulson, how are you?
<pitti> seb128: en effet! nous avons acheter un nouveau vÃ©lo pour ma femme
<seb128> xclaesse, hey, ask chrisccoulson, I think there is an option inbox only
<chrisccoulson> seb128, yeah, good thanks
<seb128> pitti, l'ancien Ã©tait cassÃ© ? ou un meilleur modÃ¨le ?
<chrisccoulson> how are you?
<seb128> chrisccoulson, I'm good thank you
<pitti> seb128: we took advantage of the marvellous weather to do a little bike tour, and some gardening
<xclaesse> chrisccoulson, Hello, is it possible to tell Dash's thunderbird icon to count only inbox emails and not all ML folders?
<seb128> nice
<seb128> weather was great here as well
<chrisccoulson> xclaesse, yeah, there's a radio button in the general pane of the preferences dialog
<pitti> seb128: oui, every other week something else broke; it had > 16.000 km already (some 10 years), so EOL well deserved
<seb128> waouh, that's quite some distance for a bike ;-)
<Laney> speaking of weather, this is my parents' village at the weekend: https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/481717_10151255237798050_606163743_n.jpg
<Laney> that's normally a road ...
<xclaesse> chrisccoulson, there is no "general" pane in gnome-control-center here
<chrisccoulson> Laney, oh, i hope their house didn't get flooded :/
<chrisccoulson> xclaesse, in the thunderbird preferences
<xclaesse> ah
<Laney> chrisccoulson: nah, it's up the village a bit from the brook thankfully
<xclaesse> chrisccoulson, good got it. Thanks :)
<Laney> during the last big ones (2000?), it did come right up our road though
<Laney> and i managed to get interviewed for bbc news 24 :P
<didrocks> RAOF: hey, how are you?
<didrocks1> grrr, system lockup
<seb128> didrocks, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/cups-pk-helper/+bug/808829 ... was there anything blocking it?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 808829 in cups-pk-helper (Ubuntu) "[MIR] cups-pk-helper" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<seb128> didrocks, you +1ed in comment #2 but then set to incomplete ... was that an ack or not?
<didrocks> seb128: there is the "Bug #807261 seems quite important to fix though.
<didrocks> "
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 807261 in system-config-printer (Ubuntu Oneiric) "cups-pk-helper makes system-config-printer asking for a password when adding a new printer" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/807261
<seb128> the bug pointed was fixed
<didrocks> then, discussing on IRC, pitti told it's not that important in the time
<seb128> didrocks, that got fixed
<didrocks> but it was still Â°1
<didrocks> +1
<seb128> didrocks, ok, so I can make g-c-c recommends it?
<didrocks> so if it's important again, we can promote it
<didrocks> seb128: sure, ping me once done, i'll promote it
<seb128> didrocks, yeah, I enabled the upstream print dialog in g-c-c
<seb128> didrocks, thanks
<didrocks> yw ;)
 * Laney plays a song over DAAP using a gst 1.0 rhythmbox
<Laney> GY!BE - appropriately apocalyptic
 * didrocks wonders why xvfb-run is looping when there is a failure
<davmor2> In Raring now there seems to be no way to tell if there are updates.  In Quantal you clicked on about computer and the box appear on the overview page at the bottom telling you if there were updates but that isn't there in Raring is this a bug or a feature that will appear later?
<cyphermox> good morning!
<seb128> davmor2, seems like the code in GNOME 3.6 handles pkgkit 0.8 only and we don't have that version (yet)
<seb128> cyphermox, hey, how are you?
<davmor2> seb128: cool thanks for the update :)
<cyphermox> seb128: good you?
<seb128> good thanks
<pitti> seb128: pk 0.8.4 is in Debian experimental; we might be able to just sync it? (didn't check new universe dependencies)
<seb128> pitti, could be, I didn't look at it yet
<didrocks1> urgh, seems I timeouted
<didrocks1> hey cyphermox, how was the week-end?
<cyphermox> didrocks1: it was ok...
<xnox> which pieces of the following software can paint the desktop background picture all on their own: gnome-settings-daemon metacity nautilus compiz gnome-shell(mutter?!) your-option-here ?
<seb128> xnox, gnome-settings-daemon and nautilus for sure, likely compiz through some plugin, iirc upstream GNOME is talking from moving the g-s-d code to gnome-shell
<xnox> seb128: thanks a lot.
<seb128> xnox, g-s-d has code to check and do nothing if nautilus is handling the desktop iirc
<seb128> xnox, why? .. yw!
<xnox> seb128: me and ogra_ just pondered about moving the installer to optionally use g-s-d for wallpaper painting, instead of ubiquity-background-image "mini-app"
<xnox> but if that is going away, maybe not =)
<seb128> xnox, you already have g-s-d running right?
<xnox> seb128: yeap.
<seb128> xnox, https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=686549
 * xnox wonders if we double paint the background.
<ubot2> Gnome bug 686549 in background "background: remove code that deals with nautilus drawing the desktop" [Normal,Unconfirmed]
<seb128> xnox, we being unity or ubiquity?
<xnox> seb128: ubiquity-only mode (ubiquity-dm). Currently it's X + metacity + custom background-painting app
<seb128> ok
<xnox> seb128: I am adding support for: X + compiz (which has a --bg-image option ;-) )
<seb128> great ;-)
<mspencer> mpt: png re. Contributor Console
<mpt> mspencer, png? An icon?
<mspencer> mpt: No, I was pinging you. I have several questions about Contributor Console
<mpt> mspencer, ah. I never respond to pings. I do respond to questions. :-)
<mspencer> mpt: I've pushed some code to the launchpad project. Should the wiki page be updated now that work is in progress on it?
<mspencer> mpt: I see that you added a link but it still says that it doesn't exist yet.
<mpt> mspencer, done :-)
<mspencer> mpt: Great, thanks!
<mspencer> mpt: What component do you have for the panel switcher? Is it something like what Software Center uses?
<mpt> mspencer, yes. Polly is probably a simpler example.
<mpt> Or Kazam.
<mspencer> mpt: Okay, I'll take a look at those.
<mspencer> mpt: You mentioned working on as much as I could do and having others work on the rest. How do I get others to help on it?
<mspencer> mpt: I would like someone else to make an icon for it and probably to work on the Updates panel.
<mpt> mspencer, promote it. Talk about it on Twitter, on your Web site if you have one, on relevnt mailing lists.
<mpt> relevant, even
<mspencer> mpt: Any of the Ubuntu mailing lists?
<xnox> ubuntu-devel-discuss is a good one.
<mspencer> xnox: thanks!
<mspencer> mpt: Since you wrote the specification, are you in charge of all changes to it?
<mpt> mspencer, no, anyone can make changes. With things I design, what usually happens is that I maintain the design parts of the specification while engineers add descriptions of how the system is structured etc. See <https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ErrorTracker> for example -- I didn't write any of the "How you can help" section.
<mspencer> mpt: So what about new features, for example the bugs to report idea that you suggested?
<xnox> how do i check if compiz is running with llvmpipe?
<didrocks1> xnox: open the dash, if no transparence -> llvmpipe
<xnox> didrocks1: I am not running dash =) i'm running X and ubiquity.
<xnox> didrocks1: any other way?
<didrocks1> xnox: can you spawn a terminal from compiz?
 * xnox wants to make sure I'm starting compiz correctly by hand.
<xnox> didrocks1: yes =)
<didrocks1> xnox: /usr/lib/nux/unity_support_test -p
<didrocks1> look at the vendor string
<didrocks1> it will tell you if llvmpipe :)
<xnox> cool, thanks.
<mpt> mspencer, usually what happens is that a bug report requesting the feature is assigned to me. I update the spec to describe how it would be presented, and I link to the update from the bug report. See bug 449337 for example.
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 449337 in software-center (Ubuntu) "does not support --addon-cd (regression from g-a-i)" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/449337
<xnox> didrocks: hmm... not getting any window decorators.
<didrocks> xnox: do you have gtk-window-decorator running?
<xnox> didrocks: nope =)
<didrocks> the decor plugin is enabled?
<xnox> didrocks: where can I check how the unity session is constructed?
<didrocks> it's a little bit vague as a question :)
<didrocks> do you know how the plugin system work? how do you start compiz?
<mpt> mspencer, then I unassign it to show that anyone can implement it.
<mspencer> mpt: Okay, thanks. Are there any tags to show that it is a feature request?
<mpt> mspencer, no.
<mpt> From "bug" to "missing feature" is a continuum. There's seldom a definite boundary.
<xnox> didrocks: I start compiz like so `compiz --sm-disable --fast-filter --bg-image /path/to/background`
<didrocks> so you have no plugin enabled
<xnox> didrocks: looking at ubuntu session under gnome-session, it looks like I should start gnome-settings-daemon before starting compiz.
<mspencer> mpt: If I get stuck on how to implement something, where is the best place to ask for help?
<didrocks> xnox: hum, why does it matter?
<xnox> didrocks: ok, how do I enable plugins
<xnox> ah I need to specify them =)
<didrocks> xnox: you need to either create a profile, either list all of them in the right order on the command line
<mpt> mspencer, <http://developer.ubuntu.com/community/> has links to reference materials, Ask Ubuntu, and the #ubuntu-app-devel IRC channel.
<xnox> didrocks: where is the default compiz profile then?
 * xnox wants to take that as a base and trim the fat =)
<xnox> (well strip it to the bone to be precise)
<didrocks> xnox: look at /usr/share/glib-2.0/schemas/10_compiz-gnome.gschema.override
<didrocks> "active-plugins"
<xnox> didrocks: thanks.
<mspencer> mpt: Thanks for all your help and thanks for showing me the project!
<mpt> mspencer, thanks for getting involved. :-)
<didrocks> yw
<desrt> morning, peeps
<stgraber> hey there, apparently everyime I decrease brightness on my machine, gnome-settings-dameon blows up, is that a known issue? (just noticed, haven't spent too much time debugging yet)
<stgraber> (gnome-settings-daemon:26737): GLib-GObject-WARNING **: invalid uninstantiatable type `(null)' in cast to `GsdMediaKeysManager'
<stgraber> Segmentation fault (core dumped)
<mspencer> mpt: One more thing - you don't have a place for the in-progress spinner. Where do you want me to put it? Should I just use my own ideas for now?
<mpt> mspencer, sure
<mspencer> mpt: okay, that's what I'll do.
<seb128> stgraber, known issue
<stgraber> seb128: cool, won't spend any longer debugging it, will just stick gnome-settings-daemon in a while loop for now :)
<seb128> lol
<seb128> stgraber, or change the value from the system settings panel
<stgraber> well, I happen to change brightness level pretty often, so having to open the window everytime is rather annoying, I prefer having g-s-d crashing but at least the brightness level set quickly so I can read my screen :)
<seb128> hehe, well in any case I'm looking at it next, I hope it's not going to be hard and that we will have a fix in the next hour or so
<pitti> desrt: hey Ryan, how are you?
<desrt> awful
<pitti> :( how's that?
<stgraber> seb128: cool, thanks!
<desrt> no coffe yet
<pitti> hah
<desrt> can't even type properly
<pitti> desrt: so I guess it's a bad time still to ask you about dconf
<desrt> nah
<desrt> go ahead :p
<pitti> desrt: context: I'm writing tests for g-settings-daemon; for that I run a private bus, and g-session and g-s-d on that
<desrt> oh.  this sounds very interesting.
<pitti> desrt: for the tests I temporarily need to change settings like idle-delay or sleep-inactive-ac-timeout
<desrt> do you want to run these tests inside of a normal user account?
<pitti> desrt: right now I remember which ones I changed and set them back to original values in tearDown(), but that's not very elegant
<desrt> ie: in the account of someone who has their own dconf settings...
<pitti> desrt: yes, so that they can be integrated into "make check" and don't need particular privs
<desrt> pitti: so this problem is actually pretty boring
<pitti> desrt: hadess suggested it might be possible to set $XDG_SOMETHING etc. to use a different dconf db?
<desrt> you have two ways to slay it
<desrt> first is indeed to set the XDG CONFIG HOME directory
<desrt> that's probably the best
<xnox> didrocks: with decor plugin I get window decoration but then my fake ubiquity-panel is left-alignment and "just right width" instead of full-screen width and right aligned.
<pitti> right, as I need to fiddle with those anyway to create a temporary gnome-session session type
<desrt> that will make (a) the process look to a different dir for the database
<desrt> and (b) the service activated by the private bus will write there
 * xnox will fiddle with it more.
<pitti> desrt: it will also have the added benefit of not using the user's settings, but the schema ones, right?
<desrt> pitti: at first
<didrocks> xnox: seems you need to be nicer with decorators :)
<desrt> pitti: of course, as you change settings, they will change
<pitti> desrt: yes of course, that's what I want
<desrt> pitti: there is a slightly strange complication here that perhaps you should pay attention to, though
<desrt> pitti: although you will be using the same dconf database file, you will be sharing a different shm signalling mechanism (the file in the xdg runtime dir)
<xnox> didrocks: i'll try gtk-window-decorator or see what's wrong with our minimalistic gnome-panet implementation in gtk.
<didrocks> xnox: sounds good
<desrt> pitti: in theory that's currently OK -- the shm mechanism currently only signals when the database needs to be reopened
<pitti> desrt: you mean same dconf db file for all processes within the test, i.e. the scope in which I define the XDG dir?
<desrt> so the result will be a bunch of programs have to spuriously reopen the dconf database (the real one, outside of the tests) even though nothing changed
<xnox> didrocks: so far looking good.
<pitti> desrt: ah, I see what you mean
<desrt> pitti: i also don't like it because some day i may put another things in that file....
<pitti> desrt: that at least sounds a lot better than me actually changing stuff in the user DB
<desrt> pitti: so i'd recommend also changing the xdg runtime dir...
<desrt> but note: that dir _must_ be on a native filesystem (read: not nfs/ecryptfs)
<pitti> desrt: that sounds like a good safety precaution anyway
<desrt> so perhaps you want to make a subdirectory in the runtime dir and point it at your subdir
<pitti> desrt: mkdtemp ought to be okay, I guess
<desrt> rather than making something inside of your tests...
<desrt> pitti: mkdtemp is for the birds
<desrt> pitti: the purpose of the runtime dir is to avoid having to pick secure tmp names
<pitti> /tmp certainly ought to be a local dir?
<desrt> pitti: maybe?
<pitti> desrt: well, processes will use $XDG_RUNTIME_DIR, won't they?
<pitti> if they hardcode /run/user/<username>/, I couldn't change it anyway
<desrt> yes.  several o fthem.
<desrt> nobody hardcodes that value.
<desrt> they use g_get_user_runtime_dir()
<pitti> *nod*
<desrt> i think it's worth your while to create a temporary runtime dir
<desrt> since various things use this
<desrt> dconf, gvfs, keyring...
<pitti> desrt: OOI, what does the "two zeros" file /run/user/martin/dconf/user do?
<desrt> it's the convention to just name things there plainly (like 'dconf') since there is no concerns about security
<desrt> but i guess you may have a situation where two instances of tests are being run at the same time.... so maybe use a PID?
<desrt> pitti: that's the signal file
<pitti> desrt: what's wrong with mkdtemp()? it's convenient to use, I don't need to think about it, and it will work
<desrt> pitti: the second zero is meaningless.  it's created by seeking to position 1 and writing a zero
<pitti> desrt: ok, thanks for the advice!
<desrt> which is only done to force the first byte to exist with a default value of zero without risking overwriting it in a race if it's already there
<desrt> the first byte is '1' to indicate "you need to reopen things now"
<desrt> you will never ever see a '1' in that file, though
<desrt> since by definition it means you are looking at a state copy of it
<desrt> (ie: the service opens the file, unlinks it, then writes the '1'.... only so people who have it held open from before will see the '1')
<didrocks> hey mterry! How was thanksgiving?
<mterry> didrocks, hello!  Good!  Lots of pie
<didrocks> and chicken? :)
<desrt> didrocks: you're a month and a half late :)
<didrocks> desrt: what what? :)
<didrocks> for Canada I guess? ;)
<didrocks> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thanksgiving seems to confirm
<desrt> didrocks: one of my worst experiences in childhood was watching the pauly shore movie 'son in law'
<desrt> for various reasons...
<desrt> but one that sticks out the most is the fact that the movie features a halloween party, followed by a trip home for thanksgiving
 * desrt looks back and shudders
<didrocks> desrt's childhood, haunting him :)
<pitti> desrt: if I want to restore all settings to the defaults in my tearDown(), do I need to track which ones I changed, or could I just wipe the 'user' file?
<desrt> this movie was my exposure to the fact that things south of the border just aren't right...
<desrt> pitti: the service will write files to the xdg user config and runtime dirs
<desrt> pitti: if you kill the service and nuke those two temp dirs, then everything is gone
<pitti> desrt: ah, I was afraid of that (not that easy to find out the pid of the service, is it?)
<pitti> desrt: ah, probably easier to just call g_settings_reset on the whole power plugin schema
<pitti> that sounds like a two-liner
<desrt> pitti: ...
<desrt> pitti: i'd assume that you planned to cleanup the tmpdirs you created?
<desrt> pitti: just throw the entire test session into a cgroup and kill it when you're done
<pitti> desrt: sure, I do; but if I do it for every test, I would be forced to kill the daemon
<desrt> ahh
<desrt> i see
<desrt> you want to keep the fake session around for many tests
<pitti> whereas, if I just reset all settings, it should work
<desrt> pitti: the fastest/easiest thing for you is 'dconf reset -f /'
<pitti> desrt: yes, that's a lot less overhead
<pitti> desrt: oh, nice
<desrt> pitti: or the equivalent, via the DConfClient API
<mvo> glatzor: I would be keen to move "add_repo_add_key_and_install_app()" into aptdaemon itself to have it available for e.g. unity - would you accept a patch? or maybe via a plugin?
<attente> is lp bzr down?
<larsu> attente, haha came here to ask this...
<tsdgeos> seems it is
<tsdgeos> happening for lots of people
<dobey> attente: #launchpad is the launchpad help channel
<czajkowski> ello.....
<seb128> ssh_exchange_identification: Connection closed by remote host
<seb128> yeah, it's not behaving for me either
<mvo> glatzor: i.e. I think what I want is a super-transaction so that I only need to send a single transaction-id to unity and that keeps track of the entire add/reload/install dance
<seb128> czajkowski, hey
<czajkowski> seb128: what's up
<seb128> czajkowski, is code.launchpad.net known to be having issues?
<seb128> larsu, attente: getting "ssh_exchange_identification: Connection closed by remote host" as well?
<czajkowski> seb128: first I've heard
<czajkowski> let me go and see
<attente> yep, same thing
<larsu> seb128, yes
<glatzor> mvo, evening. sounds like a crazy name for a method :)
<czajkowski> seb128: what are you seeing as it's loading fine for me
<seb128> czajkowski, I get "ssh_exchange_identification: Connection closed by remote host" when trying to pull or push
<seb128> czajkowski, bzr branch lp:unityThe
<czajkowski> hmmm
<glatzor> mvo, the problem is the resolving of the app name (package mapping)
<mvo> glatzor: oh? maybe I'm missing something, but I know the expected pkgname in advance :)
<tsdgeos> czajkowski: the web works fine, not the bzr repos
<glatzor> mvo, currently unity only uses packagekit to talk to aptdaemon
<tsdgeos> czajkowski: actually works fine again here :D
<mvo> glatzor: aha, well, the install progress branch that I'm working on right now is using the native aptdaemon to track progress
 * mvo can also not push his unity branch
<glatzor> mvo, time to push a buy method to PackageKit?
<seb128> back working here
<mvo> glatzor: \o/
<larsu> seb128, attentesame for me :)
<didrocks> confirmed here
<seb128> glatzor, mvo: speaking about pkgkit, should we sync 0.8 from debian experimental?
<mvo> works here too now
<glatzor> seb128, evening
<glatzor> seb128, how are you
<seb128> glatzor, hey, I'm good thanks, how are you?
<attente> yep, works :)
<czajkowski> minor wobbly thrown, all seems ok
<glatzor> seb128, pk08 won't work with aptdaemon yet
<czajkowski> shout again if any issues preferably in #launchpad :) b
<seb128> glatzor, ok
<seb128> czajkowski, will do, thanks
<glatzor> seb128, I got a new job and it kept me quite busy.
<seb128> glatzor, oh, congrats I guess ;-)
<glatzor> seb128, what are your plans regarding gnome? do you need pk 0.8 at all?
<seb128> glatzor, GNOME -> stay on 3.6, I don't need it no, I was mostly curious since some people suggested we should update before and I've no clue what the new version brings and breaks
<glatzor> seb128, I started on a pk08 branch for aptdaemon some time ago. I will try to work on it this week.
<glatzor> seb128, only API breaks :)
<seb128> glatzor, so should be easy enough to adapt to it?
<glatzor> seb128, the parallel transactions are not supported by either yum nor by aptcc.
<glatzor> seb128, There are some pitfalls. There have been a lot of Dbus changes: bitwise transaction flags and integer based enums (before string based ones have been used)But the gobject client of packagekit hasn't changed much. If you use PkTask all should be fine.
<seb128> glatzor, ok, you know better than me about the topic so your call wether we update or not
<glatzor> seb128, the systemd integration is also not a killing feature for ubuntu - I guess :)
<seb128> glatzor, we for sure don't have a need to update at the moment
<seb128> indeed not ;-)
<desrt> holy fuck
<desrt> http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/story/2012/11/25/toronto-ford-conflict-case-decision-release.html
<desrt> it finally happened!
<desrt> attente: ^^^
<glatzor> mvo, what kind of parameters should the new method support?
<Tm_T> tssk
<attente> desrt: now he can follow his dream of coaching high school football :)
<seb128> stgraber, g-s-d fix uploaded
<glatzor> seb128, I am not sure how easy it is to port GNOME 3.6 to PackageKit 0.8. So we could be forced to keep the old one.
<desrt> attente: srsly.
<seb128> glatzor, well the reason I asked is because gnome-control-center 3.6 uses the pkgkit 0.8 api and I think it's the reason the "updates" button is not showing on raring
<mvo> glatzor: it needs quite a bit of parameters :/ deb_line for the new repo, signing_key for the new repo, the application (pkgname). the software-center code has also license_key, license_key_path, oauth_token, but that should not be needed, thats fine to have that in two sepearte calls I think
<seb128> glatzor, I'm not sure what other components are doing
<jbicha> seb128: I don't think that updates button is very useful
<seb128> jbicha, hey, thanks for the g-c-c bug cleaning and package work ;-)
<seb128> jbicha, indeed not, it just made me wonder what version we should follow this cycle
<glatzor> seb128, I will investigate this.
<seb128> glatzor, thanks ... in any case not a high priority so please don't stress yourself over it ;-)
<jbicha> glatzor: gpk 3.6 at least supports pk 0.8 also
<glatzor> mvo, why do you need that transaction at all? for having a better progress bar in unity?
<mvo> glatzor: yes
<mvo> glatzor: I could do without surely :) but it would be nice to add the icon right at the start
<glatzor> mvo, and how does unity trigger the buy process? from the dash?
<mvo> glatzor: that is the eventual goal, yes
<pitti> dput pygobject_3.7.2-0ubuntu1_source.changes
<pitti> OMGponies
<stgraber> seb128: yay! thanks
<glatzor> mvo, so unity calls s-c and s-c calls unity?
<seb128> pitti, you managed to get that working without the new glib?
<desrt> seb128: the dependency relationship goes the other way, remember?
<pitti> seb128: yes, I kept that in mind at the upstream side
<pitti> seb128: I would like to get a newer g-i and glib, though
<seb128> desrt, I though that was a locked batched update
<pitti> I'm holding back patches
<desrt> seb128: he has to upload the new pygobject _before_ the new glib :)
<desrt> seb128: nah...
<pitti> desrt: (I don't)
<mvo> glatzor: unity calls aptdaemon, s-c will not be involved
<pitti> g-i and glib are in lockstep
<desrt> seb128: i used the term too strongly
<desrt> pitti: not for any reasons that i know of
<pitti> seb128: and I keep an eye on backporting fixes to the stable g-i branch
<seb128> pitti, ok, I mixed g-i and pygobject
<desrt> pitti: glib and g-i just have the normal dependency relationship
<glatzor> mvo, so the buy code is moved to unity? right
<mvo> glatzor: there will probably be a helper for now to trigger the add/reload/install dance, but it would be nice to move this helper into a more "official" place :)
<mvo> glatzor: yeah
<glatzor> mvo, s-c is dying?
<mvo> glatzor: all code will move into it
<mvo> glatzor: most likely, yes
 * glatzor hugs mvo 
 * mvo hugs glatzor
 * desrt hugs rob ford
<glatzor> mvo, but still secret? :)
<mvo> glatzor: *cough* no
<glatzor> mvo, do you know gdbus-codegen?
<mvo> glatzor: no, sorry
<mvo> glatzor: never used it
<glatzor> mvo, quite handy. I used it last year (when starting on a glib based aptdaemon client library - which stalled)
<glatzor> mvo, a problem could be the enum resolving (e.g. status and especially error codes) in unity
<mvo> glatzor: meh, right. right now I'm using strings
<mvo> glatzor: so thats easy
<glatzor> mvo, if unit uses the PackageKit library it would be limited to the PackageKit error types (there is some basic mapping). And if you use the aptdaemon dbus api you have to extract the strings from aptdaemon.enums
<glatzor> mvo, do you plan to move the code into a separate library?
<mvo> glatzor: I moved it out into a seperate python helper so far
<mvo> glatzor: but that still leaves the problem of the aggregation of the transaction progress
<glatzor> mvo, the python helper could also provide a high level progress on a very small dbus interface
<glatzor> mvo, this way you could reuse the s-c code
<mvo> glatzor: hm, then unity would have to listen to two different dbus APIs for progress on normal installs or purchases or this small dbus interface would be used for both cases, I guess the later is ok
<mitya57> Xubuntu users won't be able to purchase apps?
<glatzor> mvo, the 4th dbus interface to install packages :) juhu
<pitti> desrt: I'm getting GLib-GIO-Message: Using the 'memory' GSettings backend.  Your settings will not be saved or shared with other applications.
<mvo> glatzor: exactly :(
<pitti> desrt: I just noticed I don't have libdconf-dev installed; could it be that my jhbuild glib was not built with a dconf backend then?
<pitti> desrt: or is that something else?
<pitti> desrt: hm, I don't see any reference to "dconf" in glib's build system
<seb128> pitti, it's a backend, those are not hardcoded at the glib level
<desrt> pitti: there's another package for the backend
<pitti> oh
<desrt> dconf-gsettings-backend - simple configuration storage system - GSettings back-end
<pitti> right, so that has a jhbuild module?
<desrt> no
<desrt> that's just 'dconf'
<pitti> ah, so I need dconf in jhbuild
<desrt> ohhh
<desrt> yes
<desrt> the reason is because glib looks for its modules at a hardcoded path relative to its own install prefix
<pitti> there doesn't seem to be a dependency on this, so I didn't notice
<pitti> desrt: thanks, building
<desrt> pitti: it's tricky...
<pitti> configure: error: Vala 0.17.0 not found.
<pitti> *sigh*
<desrt> because dconf has a forward dependency on glib
<desrt> but glib depends back again on dconf (through dependency inversion)
<seb128> pitti, remind me that I wanted to set 0.18 as default valac
<desrt> same as the story for glib-networking and gvfs...
<pitti> right, so I probably need a VALAC or so
<pitti> desrt: how do you build dconf in jhbuild? mangling /usr/bin/valac manually?
<desrt> pitti: jhbuild's dconf module has a dependency on vala....
<desrt> if you just type 'jhbuild build dconf' it ought to work
<pitti> oh, it's enough to just uninstall vala 0.16
<desrt> even that should not be required
<desrt> the valac installed by jhbuild should end up with the name 'valac' and it should be in the PATH before the distro one
<pitti> right, but I'd like to avoid having to build vala itself
<seb128> pitti, or just update-alternative --config valac
<desrt> pitti: why?
<desrt> pitti: embrace the chaos of jhbuild :)
<pitti> bonsoir mes amis
<didrocks> bonne soirÃ©e pitti
<seb128> pitti, bye
<mterry> didrocks, seb128: cwayne from QA has a metapackage in NEW that I sponsored: ubuntu-testing-tools.  Could I beg a NEW review from one of you?
<mterry> (it's for nexus7 testing)
<didrocks> mterry: sure, will do it tomorrow morning if seb128 doesn't beat me to it :)
<seb128> didrocks, mterry: looking, if it's a dummy package it's likely trivial
<seb128> didrocks, mterry: NEWed
<didrocks> sweet :)
<mterry> seb128, thanks!
<seb128> mterry, yw ;-)
 * didrocks counts 14 projects now deployed for daily landing into ubuntu (maybe 15 soon)
<kenvandine>  didrocks, yay!
<didrocks> :)
<seb128> hey kenvandine, had a good thanksgiving?
<kenvandine> yup
<kenvandine> seb128, have a good weekend?
<mterry> tedg, do you know why some packages use run-xvfb.sh instead of xvfb-run?
<tedg> mterry, Well, I wrote run-xfvb.sh...
<tedg> mterry, I wasn't aware of an xvfb-run, but if I was to guess, I'd say because it doesn't fallback to the local display if there is on.
<tedg> one
<mterry> tedg, yeah I don't think it does.  That's a feature you wanted?
<tedg> mterry, Yeah, so I can see the tests when running them on a local branch.
<tedg> mterry, But, run-xvfb.sh could call the other easily enough.
<mterry> tedg, sure
<mterry> It could be a simple if ! $DISPLAY; then xvfb-run
<tedg> Yup.  Really if you're going to put time in there I'd rather go to the dummy X driver.
<tedg> That's what xorg-gtest uses.
<tedg> It seems to be a better solution than xvfb overall.
<mterry> tedg, I'm not familiar with it
<tedg> mterry, It's cnd's magic gtest harness for doing Xorg testing.  But the way it works is sets up a normal xorg server with a special driver.
<seb128> grrr, powerpc or how to "freeze" the archive easily
<seb128> (having only 2 builders running for it on raring and one picked libreoffice ... say bye to anything moving to raring before tomorrow)
<zzecool> Hello is anyone here using Gnome 3 ppa ?
<zzecool> I just update my ubuntu 12.10 with gnome 3 ppa and lost global menu only in gnome applications ( appmenu-gtk fail to load the gtk module even thought it is installed )
<zzecool> any help is appreciated
<zzecool> anyone ?
<zzecool> ;/
<attente> zzecool, maybe try checking the LD_LIBRARY_PATH to see if it points to where the gtk module is located?
<zzecool> attente: can you please advice me on this ?
<zzecool> how do i check this
<zzecool> ?
<attente> echo $LD_LIBRARY_PATH
<zzecool> sec
<zzecool> nothing on output]
<zzecool> attente: the result is nothing empty space
<attente> so i guess try to set the environment variable to wherever the gtk module is located
<attente> let me see if i can find where it is on my machine
<zzecool> ohh thank you
<attente> zzecool: can you try:
<attente> LD_LIBRARY_PATH=/usr/lib/gtk-3.0/3.0.0/menuproxies/ gedit
<seb128> attente, are you sure those are ld loaded?
<seb128> attente, e.g not dlopen-ed?
<zzecool> yes just a sec
<zzecool> attente: same problem
<zzecool> no global menu
<seb128> jbicha, is gnome3 ppa known to break appmenu integration?
<attente> seb128: nope, wasn't sure
<zzecool> seb128:  i spoke to the webupd8.com Guy and he said that it is working for him just fine
<zzecool> maybe im an exception
<zzecool> indicator-appmenu  appmenu-gtk appmenu-gkt3 appmenu-qt is install
<zzecool> as an info
<seb128> zzecool, echo $UBUNTU_MENUPROXY ?
<zzecool> sec
<zzecool> libappmenu.so
<zzecool> seb128: libappmenu.so
<seb128> zzecool, dpkg -l | grep libgtk-3-0
<zzecool> libgtk-3-0:amd64       3.6.2-0ubuntu1~ubuntu12.10.1     amd64    GTK+ graphical user interface library
<zzecool> seb128:  btw thanks for the support  , i hope we will find the culprit
<seb128> zzecool, well, it could be that gtk version, where did you get it?
<zzecool> sec
<zzecool> let me chekc
<zzecool> from the gnome 3 ppa
<seb128> yeah, just found it there as well
<zzecool> yeap
<zzecool> if you read my first post i said that the problem appeared after i did and upgrade using this ppa
<seb128> zzecool, strace eog 2>&1 | grep appmenu
<seb128> can you copy that on pastebin.ubuntu.com or similar?
<dupondje> any big changes in Optimus support yet since 12.10 ?
<jbicha> seb128: we needed a newer gtk so that gnome-themes-standard wouldn't break everything
<seb128> dupondje, what's Optimus?
<zzecool> seb yes just a sec
<dupondje> seb128: Hybrid graphic card stuff for Nvidia
<seb128> jbicha, why would g-t-s break everything?
<seb128> dupondje, try asking on #ubuntu-x
<jbicha> seb128: https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=689027
<ubot2> Gnome bug 689027 in general "Adwaita 3.6.2 GTK theme with GTK 3.6.0 makes everything segfault" [Critical,Resolved: fixed]
<seb128> jbicha, don't update the theme? ;-)
<seb128> jbicha, well anyway, it's a ppa so your call ... did that break appmenu for other users?
<jbicha> seb128: well by the time I figured that out it was too late :(
<zzecool> seb128: http://pastebin.com/UyKQYVwA
<jbicha> the first I heard of the appmenu problem was zzecool's on webupd8.org earlier today
<zzecool> jbicha: im happy that you read it :P
<seb128> zzecool, dpkg -L appmenu-gtk3 | grep .so
<zzecool> seb128: /usr/lib/gtk-3.0/3.0.0/menuproxies/libappmenu.so
<seb128> zzecool, dpkg -l | grep appmenu-gtk3
<zzecool> appmenu-gtk3                                                12.10.2-0ubuntu1                          amd64        Export GTK menus over DBus
<zzecool> oups sry
<seb128> yeah, ok
<seb128> jbicha broke it :p
<zzecool> ?
<zzecool> seb128: we found the problem ?
<seb128> zzecool, wget https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/appmenu-gtk/12.10.2-0ubuntu3/+build/3988904/+files/appmenu-gtk3_12.10.2-0ubuntu3_amd64.deb and dpkg -i that
<seb128> zzecool, yes, that version of appmenu is not multiarched and the raring gtk dropped fallback for non multiarch dirs
<seb128> jbicha, ^
<jbicha> seb128: any ideas what else could be broken by the multiarch fun?
<zzecool> that why i didnt found the 32bit version in the var/cache/apt/archives when searching ?
<seb128> jbicha, unico, adwaita, appmenu
<seb128> zzecool, could be
<zzecool> ahhh nice
<zzecool> seb128: Thank you very much
<jbicha> hmm, unico didn't seem broken...
<zzecool> :)
<seb128> jbicha, you should probably revert that fallback drop in the quantal version
<seb128> zzecool, yw!
<zzecool> make sure to update the ppa for others as well :)
<seb128> jbicha, well, it is for pretty sure: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gtk3-engines-unico/1.0.2+r139-0ubuntu3
<seb128> jbicha, it was broken it in raring when gtk got uploaded so I doubt it will work in quantal
<zzecool> i will log out log in and tell you the results
<zzecool> :)
<zzecool> seb128: thank you very much it worked :)
<seb128> zzecool, glad it worked, thanks for pointing the issue
<zzecool> np
<seb128> next is to get jbicha to fix the ppa for everybody else ;-)
<zzecool> seb128: i wasnt able to post a bug to the ppa
<jbicha> seb128: ah, debian/patches/061_multiarch_module_fallback.patch wasn't mentioned in the changelog
<zzecool> and i also sent a main with all the details to the ppa admin
<zzecool> mail*
<jbicha> zzecool: you'll actually want to downgrade to quantal's appmenu-gtk when this is fixed
<seb128> jbicha, yeah, it did bite us by surprise in raring as well...
<zzecool> appmenu-gtk is form quantal not form the gnome 3 ppa
<zzecool> form*
<zzecool> from**
<seb128> jbicha, Laney did some cleanups in the patches during the UDS session without updating the changelog
<mterry> seb128, were you going to promote gnome-control-center-unity, or shall I file a MIR?
<GunnarHj> charles: ping?
<seb128> jbicha, then I went some weeks later to do a simple update and got bitten by it after upload
<seb128> mterry, no need of MIR, that was waiting on something to recommends it and we forgot to run the command then, doing it
<mterry> seb128, cool, thanks!
<zzecool> jbicha: any estimate about the fix so i will not get surprised ?
<seb128> mterry, yw!
<seb128> (done)
<jbicha> zzecool: I'm pushing now, it will take about an hour to build & publish
<seb128> jbicha, thanks for fixing ;-)
<jbicha> or 2 hours depending on how busy the builders are
<zzecool> jbicha: i hope i will not have any problem to downgrade :)
<seb128> jbicha, sorry about the changelog/lack of warning issue
<jbicha> I remembered the breakage earlier in raring but I didn't read the diff carefully
<zzecool> jbicha: one last question , is there any easy way to downgrade - ppapurge gnome 3 ppa ? because yesterday with the gnome theme bug  i had to remove allmost my whole system and reinstall with ubuntu-desktop package
<jbicha> yes, you can install the ppapurge package and use that
<zzecool> i got all the crazy segfaults and i though im doomed so i proceed
<jbicha> *ppa-purge
<zzecool> jbicha: i have it but its doesnt working with this ppa because there is a dependency  with libgtk-3 i think
<zzecool> let me check now and tell you
<zzecool> jbicha: here you are i was right it is libgtk-3 http://pastebin.com/p5v9gi4Z
<zzecool> i know that ppa-purge use aptitude  that it doesnt support multiarch  but im not sure that this is the prob here right ?
<jbicha> I don't know; you can file a bug against ppa-purge
<zzecool> ok thank you
<zzecool> :)
<zzecool> jbicha: goodnight and thanks
#ubuntu-desktop 2012-11-27
<pitti> Bonjour
<desrt> pitti: bonan matenon
<pitti> desrt: ton Esperanto sonne bien!
<desrt> pitti: via esperanto ne estas bona.
<pitti> desrt: comment sont tes lessons?
<pitti> desrt: it looks quite similar to latin/spanish
<desrt> it appears similar to a lot of things, depending on the sentence :)
<pitti> desrt: so I guess that makes it both easy and hard to learn at the same time?
<pitti> hard because you keep mixing it up with actual Spanish/French/Latin?
<desrt> pitti: it's designed to make it approximately equally easy for speakers of many different language groups to learn
<desrt> mostly european language groups, mind you...
<desrt> so it has obvious influences from the romance languages, slavic languages, german and english
<desrt> 'havu bonan tagon' (have a good day) is a lovely phrase for demonstrating that :)
<desrt> ('have' from english, 'a' from polish, 'good' from french, 'day' from german)
<didrocks> good morning
<pitti> bonjour didrocks, Ã§a va?
<didrocks> pitti: Ã§a va, et toi?
<pitti> un peu fatigue; Je suis allÃ© dormir plus tard
<pitti> (TB meeting)
<pitti> and I couldn't sleep any more this morning; darn brain!
<didrocks> argh
<didrocks> take it easy for today :)
<BigWhale> Good Morning people.
<RAOF> didrocks: Good morning; was your ping yesterday for any deep and meaningful purpose?
<didrocks> hey RAOF ;) It was more for poking about who should I ping on the SRU team? We have 2 SRUs of the unity/compiz stack waiting for 2 weeks for precise and a week for quantal. This is blocking the next backport which is the SRU for fullscreen video games
<didrocks> hey BigWhale
<RAOF> didrocks: We've got a weekly schedule for SRU processing; its on the wiki.
<didrocks> RAOF: ah, indeed, found it on the wiki page. And Tuesday is you! :)
<RAOF> Indeed.
<RAOF> By âTuesdayâ, though, it means âTuesday, UTC-5 or soâ; I actually do it on Wednesday morning, my time :)
<didrocks> RAOF: ah, ok, so tomorrow morning :)
<RAOF> Yup.
<didrocks> RAOF: should I let the natural process happen or should I give you the links?
<RAOF> I'll see them in the pending-sru or quantal/precise unapproved queues; no need for links.
<RAOF> I *am* very happy to be pinged about things which should be processed swiftly.
<didrocks> ok, I was trying to not bother you too much, thanks RAOF :)
<RAOF> On my SRU processing day I welcome pings for processing; it's useful to know what's more important, and if someone's pinging then I can poke questions at them, too.
<hasselmm> ah, there we have him! :-) pitty: can/could umockdev simulate plugging and removing devices?
<hasselmm> ...or is that too much tied to the netlink sockets, kernels and daemons?
<pitti> hey hasselmm (I assume you meant to ping me)
<pitti> hasselmm: it does that already, yes
<pitti> hasselmm: it intercepts access to the netlink socket and does its own uevent forging
<hasselmm> pitti: oh! awesome!
<pitti> hasselmm: NB that umockdev doesn't have an official release yet; its still in the "experiment/research" stage, and I haven't had time to work on it in the last two months
<pitti> but it's definitively on my TODO list
<pitti> hasselmm: right now you can simulate simple stuff like batteries or raw USB devices (lsusb/libusb work), as well as generic uevents
<hasselmm> pitti, this is the latest code? https://github.com/martinpitt/umockdev
<pitti> hasselmm: correct
<hasselmm> pitti, what i need are block devices. but guess now i am sufficiently teased to throw away my minimal mocking/add it to umockdev
<hasselmm> (if even needed)
<pitti> hasselmm: there's a dump tool which you can run on an actual device of your's, into a text file, and replicate that in a mock env
<pitti> hasselmm: for block devices in particular I'd recommend scsi_debug
<pitti> hasselmm: intercepting and emulating the whole block/scsi/etc. stack is going to be a huge work, and I'm not sure that it's worth it given how well scsi_debug works
<pitti> hasselmm: I should join #gnome-hackers again, indeed; usually I only hang out in #introspection and #python
<pitti> hasselmm: NB that umockdev doesn't intercept /dev/ and ioctl yet
<hasselmm> pitti: isn't scsi_debug a kernel driver?
<pitti> hasselmm: yes, it is; so you need root privs
<hasselmm> pitti, ok. so i still need umockdev :-)
<pitti> hasselmm: I'm using it in the udev and gvfs tests
<pitti> hasselmm: ah, ok; what are you actually trying to test?
<pitti> hasselmm: as I said, rebuilding the whole block layer in userspace sounds painful
<hasselmm> really just need to get notified of block device addition and removal
<pitti> hasselmm: via uevents or via udisks d-bus messages?
<hasselmm> pitti, good question actually :-)
<pitti> hasselmm: so, merely synthesizing the uevents, or mocking udisks to emulate adding/removing a devices is rather easy; but you couldn't actually do anything with those fake device of course, as they don't exist
<pitti> hasselmm: so if you only want to test the hotplugging code path, that should work
<hasselmm> pitti: oh. gunixvolumemonitor just monitors /etc/fstab (via gunixmounts), and hard-codes the fstab path. so i am lost anyway.
<pitti> hasselmm: on the gvfs level it uses udisks2
<pitti> so if you use a mock udisks2, it should reflect on the gvfs level
<pitti> desrt: eek, dconf-service segfaults in my jhbuild
<pitti> desrt: ok, stacktrace, reproducer, analysis, and workaround sent to https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=689136
<ubot2> Gnome bug 689136 in writer "Crash in dconf_writer_real_end(): change is NULL (when $XDG_CONFIG_HOME/dconf does not exist)" [Normal,Unconfirmed]
<seb128> hey desktopers
<didrocks> salut seb128!
<didrocks> seb128: desktop meeting reminder
<seb128> lut didrocks, thanks ;-)
<didrocks> yw
<chrisccoulson> good morning everyone
<Laney> hey
<seb128> hey chrisccoulson, Laney, how are you?
<Laney> tired. but there is tea so life is good :-)
<Laney> holiday next week ;-)
<Laney> how are you?
<seb128> I'm good thanks
<seb128> Laney, holiday next week? or holidays starting next week for all of decembre?
<chrisccoulson> seb128, yeah, good thanks. and you?
<Laney> seb128: just for the week next week
<seb128> chrisccoulson, I'm good thanks
<seb128> Laney, do you plan to land gst1.0 stack before that? ;-)
<Laney> yeah, should do
<seb128> good
<Laney> then I get to be away when it blows up :P
<seb128> lol
<mvo> Laney: tea \o/
<Laney> \o/
<seb128> mvo, hey, wie gehts?
<didrocks> and a xorg lockup for me :(
<mvo> seb128: gut, danke. pitti got me into the idea of using duolingo.com to pratcise my french, that is actually great fun :) but I still am at level-1 and the owl is crying a lot when I do my practices
<didrocks> pitti: did you have any more info on this btw? ^
<pitti> didrocks: no, just what is being discussed on the upstream bug
<didrocks> seb128: on va plus pouvoir se moquer d'eux en franÃ§ais si Ã§a continue!
<didrocks> pitti: ok, thanks :)
<pitti> didrocks: I run the quantal kernel for the time being
<didrocks> pitti: I should do that as well
<seb128> mvo, ;-)
<didrocks> hum, I don't understand why split mode is not taken into account here
<tjaalton> didrocks: do you have intel ironlake gpu?
<didrocks> tjaalton: not sure if it's an ironlake, lspci is telling: 00:02.0 VGA compatible controller: Intel Corporation 2nd Generation Core Processor Family Integrated Graphics Controller (rev 09)
<tjaalton> pitti: upstream disabled rc6 power saving for ironlake, it might help with your gpu hangs
<tjaalton> didrocks: hmm, sounds like sandybridge
<didrocks> tjaalton: yeah, I guess it's a sandybridge
<tjaalton> might want to try i915.i915_enable_rc6=0
<tjaalton> for the kernel
<didrocks> tjaalton: will do at next lockup :)
<didrocks> thanks!
<pitti> tjaalton: nope, rc6 doesn't work for me; I have Arrandale
<seb128> pitti, hey, how are you?
<pitti> hey seb128; quite fine, thanks!
<seb128> pitti, so yesterday we had update-apt-xapian-index failing by hitting and exception in pyxdg due to a misformated .desktop in app-install-data
<seb128> pitti, where would you put a test to avoid app-install-data being uploaded again with a broken .desktop that would lead in that situation?
<pitti> seb128: you could add an autopkgtest to a-i-d that iterates over all shipped .desktop files with pyxdg?
<pitti> I fixed pyxdg's autopkgtest this morning, FYI
<seb128> pitti, oh, they were broken? they ran fine here
<pitti> seb128: not much; debian bug 694517
<ubot2> Debian bug 694517 in pyxdg "pyxdg: Fix autopkgtest output to go to stdout" [Normal,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/694517
<seb128> pitti, oh ok
<pitti> seb128: if a-i-d had a build or binary depends on pyxdg, you could also put that test into pyxdg itself
<seb128> pitti, so, if we add an autopkgtest to a-i-d ... could we get to run it on pyxdg updates?
<pitti> i. e . "ensure that we can process all .desktop files present on the sysetm"
<pitti> seb128: that would again require a build or binary dependency
<seb128> ok, which is not the case
<pitti> seb128: you could add a build dep and do the iteration in debian/rules already, which would fail the build immediately
<pitti> and be more obvious
<pitti> and then we can use the same test as autopkgtest
<seb128> pitti, I guess I could add an autopkgtest in pyxdg which is "install a-i-d and test all the .desktop from it"
<seb128> ?
<pitti> oui, tu peux
<pitti> but that wouldn't re-run the test on a new a-i-d upload
<seb128> that wouldn't be upstreamable to debian though
<pitti> the "search all *.desktop files and process them" is, though
<Laney> should it re-run tests in that situation?
<Laney> a test dependency changes -> re-run that test
<pitti> and then all that a-i-d needs is a build dep to pyxdg and a trivial autopkgtest
<pitti> Laney: you mean if a dep in debian/tests/control changes?
<Laney> yeah
<pitti> Laney: that would be nice, but these are not exposed in apt's indexes
<pitti> so we'd need to keep an unpacked version of all test-enabled source packages around to detect that
<pitti> which is possible in principle, but nobody did that
<Laney> you could build a mapping on upload, when you first run the test
<pitti> (and it requires introducing state into the machiner)
<mhr3> seb128, did the fixed bustle make it to Q?
<seb128> mhr3, no
<mhr3> seb128, :( will it?
<Laney> I imagine you could backport it fairly easily
<seb128> dunno, you are welcome to propose a SRU
<seb128> e.g add a debdiff to a bug, add the SRU infos, subscribe sponsors
<mhr3> seb128, you're doing a very bad job at making me want to do that :P
<seb128> mhr3, let's say I don't think the "bustle on quantal" userbase is big enough to make me want spend time on a SRU
<mhr3> but, but... *i* use it :)
<seb128> I'm really waiting to see us drop the nonLTS releases, too much time backporting fixes to <n> series
<mhr3> but yea, i get it
 * mhr3 grabs latest tarball
<seb128> mhr3, just dpkg -i the debian or raring version or push that to a ppa for quantal ;-)
<mhr3> bustle has binary tarballs
<mhr3> which is pretty interesting
<seb128> mhr3, wget https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/bustle/0.4.2-1/+build/3995579/+files/bustle_0.4.2-1_amd64.deb
<seb128> mhr3, then dpkg -i that
<mhr3> oh, you even know my architecture... :)
<pitti> is there any other? :-)
<pitti> (well, armhf for sure)
<mhr3> thanks pitti, for a moment a felt special :P
<seb128> pitti, I'm still on i386 :p
<seb128> but knowing mhr3... ;-)
<mhr3> i consider this a geek equivalent of knowing my birthday :)
<seb128> lol
<mhr3> otoh there being just two real options puts it closer to flipping a coin
<seb128> well, it's a biased coin, you rather have a 90% chance that people around will pick amd64 nowadays
<seb128> only a few of us hold to i386
<seb128> e.g I know of mterry out of me ;-)
<mhr3> ok, i guess next time you have to remember my pgp fingerprint for me to feel special :P
<seb128> not going to happen :p
<tjaalton> pitti: 3.7 final should have it disabled again, or the next rc
<pitti> tjaalton: I thought the problem was with some buffer overrun, not with power saving?
<tjaalton> pitti: well, you never know :)
<seb128> mvo, https://code.launchpad.net/~bkerensa/ubuntu/raring/app-install-data-ubuntu/fix-for-depends/+merge/135533
<seb128> mvo, for the new time you upload it ;-) (it's one of the 100 items on the sponsoring list)
<seb128> mvo, thanks in advance ;-)
<didrocks> time for some exercice, bbl
<ogra_> seb128, every release i ask about gksu i'm told it will vanish, is that the case for raring as well ?
<seb128> ogra_, check with mdeslaur but I guess so ... they started replacing it with pkexec not sure what is left to do
 * ogra_ is looking at bug 421660 ... and ponders how to solve it since gksu still uses gconf2
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 421660 in ubuntu-defaults-nexus7 (Ubuntu) "gksu's and gksudo's modal password prompt prevents OnBoard's virtual keyboard input, causing accessibility issues" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/421660
<seb128> ogra_, when do you get a gksu prompt? we should maybe fix those when we cross them?
<mdeslaur> now that apport is migrated to pkexec, I'm not quite sure what uses gksu anymore
<mdeslaur> at least, there shouldn't be much left in the default image
<ogra_> seb128, heh, good question
<ogra_> ogra@nexus7:~$ grep -r gksu /usr/share/applications/*|wc -l
<ogra_> 7
<ogra_> gksu.desktop, xdiagnose.desktop
<ogra_> the rest are false positives
<ogra_> but i bet there als some apps that use it hardcoded
<ogra_> *also
<seb128> ogra_, ok, so I'm asking again: when do you get gksu to prompt you?
<ogra_> seb128, i have no idea, i'll ask mfisch, he marked it as affecting nexus7
<seb128> ogra_, ok, let's list the cases where it happens and fix those
<ogra_> (though that was with the quantal image)
<seb128> it's the easiest way out
<didrocks> urgh a new gcc, already that the powerpc builders aren't in a great shapeâ¦
<seb128> didrocks, well, 2 builders, one building libreoffice and one building webkit
<seb128> didrocks, see you next week to get things in raring :p
<didrocks> seb128: right :p
<didrocks> seb128: 14 hours of wait for the since that were autolandingâ¦
<seb128> didrocks, yeah, I complained about that yesterday on #ubuntu-release, it's not only blocking autolanding, it's blocking anything to move to raring
<didrocks> seb128: yep
<seb128> they said that IS said that we should have back and extra builder today
<didrocks> did they found the machine that didn't restart?
<seb128> but it might be worth for you mentioning it on #ubuntu-release (so I'm not the only one complaining :p)
<didrocks> I already complained last thursday :p
<seb128> didrocks, seems like they know where the issue is, they just need somebody to physically go on site which didn't happen yet
<didrocks> cjwatson told that there were a critical RT to get the machine back one
<seb128> IS said that would happen today
<seb128> so let's see
<didrocks> well, it's not FF day, but still ;)
<didrocks> yeah, let's see
<seb128> good news is that webkit build is 10 hours in and previous one took 11h
<seb128> if you have something you want to see landing you might want to ask people to score down gcc or score up what you need
 * didrocks crosses fingers
<didrocks> seb128: I think mine will get accepted before gcc as it's nonvirt
 * didrocks looks at the gcc build score/wait exceptation
<seb128> cool
<didrocks> basically the ppa is supposed to be an extension of the official archive as we don't rebuild there
<didrocks> urgh no, gcc is starting in one minute
<seb128> yeah, I just don't know if the pool is a fifo
<seb128> well at equivalent score I mean
<seb128> didrocks, that seems buggy, there are 2 builders and none is going to be done before at least an hour
<Laney> I think that is 1 minute after the next build finishes
<didrocks> yeah, launchpad time estimation is always weird
<didrocks> I know why the ppa is slow
<didrocks> it's getting the "release" score
<didrocks> where everything else is getting the "-proposed" score
<didrocks> pitti: btw, you can ditch https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-unity/+archive/daily-build/+build/4014432 and https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-unity/+archive/daily-build/+build/4015144 if you want, both are source superseeded already
<ogra_> seb128, oh, ara did put a use case into bug 1078696
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1078696 in ubuntu-nexus7 "gksu does not accept sudo password on the Nexus7" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1078696
<ogra_> i guess that one is moot once we unseeded gksu though
<seb128> ogra_, yeah
<pitti> didrocks: lowered to 1; I can't actually kill them
<didrocks> pitti: ok, thanks :)
<desrt> pitti: how dare your testing initiative find bugs in my software!!
<desrt> i am insulted!!
<pitti> it's annoying, isn't it!
<desrt> i was perfectly happy when i had no bugs
<didrocks> desrt: you already knew that pitti was this kind of guy :)
<desrt> pitti: thanks ;)
<didrocks> in addition, it's not just talks, he had proofs!
<pitti> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/buglist.cgi?product=dconf â "180 bugs found" *cough*
<didrocks> I find that shocking :)
<desrt> better to find it in the unreleased version before it starts biting real users :)
<desrt> pitti: 160 of them are for dconf-editor ;)
<pitti> desrt: but you garden them well, only 21 open ones
 * pitti vous donne des accolades
<seb128> didrocks, could you review the ubuntu-settings one liner change on https://code.launchpad.net/~vanvugt/ubuntu/raring/ubuntu-settings/fix-1073202/+merge/134424 when you have a minute?
<didrocks> seb128: I already reviewed it, see my comment and duflu commented on it
<didrocks> seb128: I'm afraid that if we accept this right now, we'll never get the right fix in the end
<seb128> didrocks, right, and it got 5 comments since you commented
<didrocks> and I pinged people on IRC developping it
<didrocks> but seems it was ignored
<didrocks> will comment *again*
<seb128> didrocks, ok, putting it work in progress then and asked them back to needs review when those issues are addressed
<seb128> didrocks, don't worry, I commented saying to put it back to needs review once the other issues are resolved
<seb128> didrocks, sorry, just trying to get that damn sponsoring queue under 100 items, we have quite some "tricky" items like that one that just sit here atm which is not a solution either
<seb128> didrocks, anyway, moving on to the next one, thanks ;-)
<didrocks> seb128: I added some more comments, and will keep the tab opened
<didrocks> seb128: thanks ;)
<seb128> didrocks, great, yw ;-)
<cyphermox> chrisccoulson: yo
<cyphermox> chrisccoulson: globalmenu-extension, do you know where the source for that is? I'd like to prepare it for didrocks' autolanding, so updating the packaging and merging it in to the trunk branch
<chrisccoulson> cyphermox, how's that going to work? it's unbuildable outside of the firefox source tree, and doesn't have any packaging of its own
<seb128> do we really automatic daily landing for that?
<seb128> it seems to be fine living in firefox's source
<seb128> didrocks, ^
<chrisccoulson> it will be tested when we run the firefox tests anyway ;)
<chrisccoulson> i'm actually working on that arm
<chrisccoulson> **atm
<didrocks> if it's in firefox source, it's fine, let's it be this way :)
<seb128> cool
<didrocks> the fact that there is a dedicated launchpad project is misleading :)
<chrisccoulson> didrocks, can i have test results from PPA builds appear on https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/ ?
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: PPA builds? well, in theory everything is possible but you need to code it
<didrocks> the good news is that I have a ppa watcher :p
<didrocks> so you can maybe steal from it to get the status :)
<seb128> or bribe pitti for QA to add that feature ;-)
<chrisccoulson> didrocks, https://code.launchpad.net/~mozillateam/firefox/firefox-trunk.head, see the last couple of weeks of commits ;)
<chrisccoulson> it's possible to run all of the firefox tests outside of the build now, and they are all packaged too
<chrisccoulson> well, all -> most ;)
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: waow, nice work! ;)
<qengho> niiice.
<didrocks> seb128: https://code.launchpad.net/~vanvugt/ubuntu/raring/ubuntu-settings/fix-1073202/+merge/134424 FYI in case you didn't see it
<seb128> didrocks, so sam is working on the fix?
<didrocks> seb128: well, he told me a month ago that it will be two weeks to fix itâ¦ So I'm unsure
<didrocks> seb128: I tried to get duflu profiling it, seems there is no incentive
<didrocks> that's why I don't want to push the workaround first
<didrocks> because it's bitting us in other ways
<didrocks> and this won't get fix
<qengho> chrisccoulson: I see you have a bot account for LP. Care to tell me how you use it? I was about to make the same so I don't have to expose my own GPG and SSH keys outside my machine.
<seb128> didrocks, is that bug #1063617 or another one?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1063617 in compiz (Ubuntu) "1:0.9.8+bzr3319-0ubuntu1 regression: keeps setting gsettings keys to wrong values" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1063617
<didrocks> seb128: I *think* they are related, but no evidence
<didrocks> so can't promiss
<seb128> didrocks, ok, anyway I just wanted to knock it off the sponsoring queue while it's being worked, no hurry to see the patch landing ... would still be nice to get the real compiz bug fixed ;-)
<didrocks> seb128: yeah, it's breaking at least 10 autopilot tests
<seb128> desrt, I think debian hates you :p
<Laney> yeah i'm wondering how that didn't break us
<seb128> desrt, they are talking about reverting the glib arm abi break in debian or renaming the glib binary
<desrt> seb128: they're pretty foolish
<seb128> desrt, I don't think "foolish" is the word ;-)
<desrt> mad-as-hatters?
<seb128> desrt, they will probably settle on the "best" option which is rebuilding some hundred packages
<desrt> i'd love to see them revert the ABI break that they didn't notice for over a year
<desrt> and watch how the new-old ABI rebreaks everything again
<seb128> desrt, they are speaking about rebuild some 300 packages already
<desrt> rebuilding makes sense
<desrt> i have a hard time believing that 300 packages are impacted, though
<desrt> unless they really have that many packages that are updated that infrequently...
<seb128> they do
<desrt> well
<desrt> rebuilding those 300 that haven't been updated is better than rebuilding sizeof(glib rdepends) - 300 :)
<desrt> seb128: got a link to the discussion?
<desrt> seb128: remember i told you -- of all my latest API-breaking parties that this would be the one that really pissed debian off the most? :)
<desrt> and this one wasn't even intentional :p
<seb128> desrt, http://paste.debian.net/212761/
<seb128> desrt, it's on #debian-gnome @ oftc
<seb128> ongoing discussion
<desrt> seb128: i joined it :p
<seb128> desrt, I see that ;-)
<seb128> desrt, thanks
<desrt> i didn't realise that debian was using such an ancient glib
<desrt> their release cycles are long... :)
<xnox> #ubuntu-devel
 * didrocks whistles "meeting" to seb128's ears :)
<seb128> didrocks, oh, right, I got the reminder and got carried away in a discussion
<seb128> didrocks, thanks
<kenvandine> :)
<didrocks> yw ;)
<seb128> Sweetshark, qengho, chrisccoulson, didrocks, Laney, kenvandine, mlankhorst, cyphermox, mterry, robru, attente: hey, it's meeting time
<qengho> Yay!
<didrocks> oh, it's meeting time!
<didrocks> :)
<Sweetshark> o/
<mlankhorst> not now I'm playing tf2! :P
<attente> \o/
<seb128> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2012-11-27
<mterry> hello!
<seb128> not a lot of updates on the wiki
<seb128> don't forget to drop some lines about what you are doing
<seb128> how is everyone?
<Sweetshark> mlankhorst: dont think of the game!
<mterry> I didn't do anything publicly notable  :)
<robru|packing> seb128, I am here for the meeting despite being on holiday ;-)
<seb128> http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-raring/canonical-desktop-team.html is also set up with trend line resetted, I hope nobody forgot some specs
<chrisccoulson> hi!
<seb128> robru|packing, oh, great, making up for the one you missed last week ;-)
<seb128> robru|packing, happy packing!
<robru|packing> seb128, making up for having missed ALL previous meetings ;-)
<mlankhorst> Sweetshark: no I'm thinking of it as stress testing the reworked nouveau patches I made
<robru|packing> seb128, thanks
<didrocks> robru|packing: between 2 boxes :p
<seb128> let's get started
<robru|packing> seb128, also, today is my birthday! ;-)
<mlankhorst> o/
<seb128> robru|packing, oh, happy birthday!
<attente> happy birthday, robru|packing :)
<didrocks> happy birthday robru|packing :)
<robru|packing> seb128, thanks ;-)
<mterry> :)
<mterry> yay
<robru|packing> thanks everybody ;-)
<chrisccoulson> robru|packing, shouldn't it be "robru|drinking"?
<chrisccoulson> happy birthday ;)
<robru|packing> chrisccoulson, haha, soon!
<seb128> ok, let's get started, I hope everybody prepared this cycle so we can have a shorted meeting rather than waiting on everyone to type ;-)
<seb128> Sweetshark, hey
<Sweetshark> seb128: heya
<seb128> short weekly summary ready? ;-)
<Sweetshark> - LibreOffice Hackfest 2012 Munich/Debian Bug Squashing Party: - insanely productive: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Hackfest/Munich2012 - some work on session installer - met some debian folks, trained some in our voodoo (SRU processes etc.) ... - resynced with Rene (LO debian maintainer) - lots of other topics, I spare you the details
<Sweetshark> - lp#1017125: tested backport, seems unfixed, which is bad and strange
<Sweetshark> - LibreOffice 4.0 alpha 1 released to quantal prereleases ppa for testing
<Sweetshark> - LibreOffice 3.6.4~rc2 prolly 3.6.4 final tagged today and locally building for later ppa upload - to be SRUed ~2 weeks later
<Sweetshark> seb128: ^ thats it
<seb128> (use "..." when you are done so we know when somebody is still typing)
<seb128> (or </done> or whatever tag you like)
<seb128> Sweetshark, thanks
<seb128> Sweetshark, I will try to talk to the SRU guys again to get 3.5.7 reviewed
<seb128> they have quite some SRU backlog
<seb128> thanksgiving didn't help...
<seb128>  
<seb128> qengho, hey
<qengho> Hi hi!
<qengho> desktop-r-chromiumbrowser-improvements
<qengho> Just about got my stable PPA for chromium-browser building automatically. There was a new stable release just yesterday, and it worked it with only a little change. Starting the beta PPA building too. I'll hand off some builds to Security team today or tomorrow. Then, I'll start publishing in the cr-team PPA.
<qengho> Translations need work. I dropped mutating the Cr "orig" tarball during UDS. I made some repairs to the po-to-chromium tool, but it needs more. Must decide where to put results, too:
<qengho> I'll fish for interest at chromium upstream for interest in all the languages we support but they don't. micah says they had no interest in the past.
<qengho> EOF
<seb128> qengho, great, what's the ppa to use for those who want to track the current versions?
<seb128> cr-team one?
<seb128> https://launchpad.net/~cr-team ... ENOTFOUND
<seb128> what's the name of the team? ;-)
<qengho> seb128: ~chromium-team
<Sweetshark> seb128: addition wrt SRUs: hmm, I had infinity pinging me on a SRU, I assume it was about 3.5.7 and merging it with the SRU for bug 585910. that makes sense for precise, but not for quantal as 3.6.4 is final in a few days and includes the fix.
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 585910 in libreoffice (Ubuntu Quantal) "[Upstream] Impress Font fuzzy in presentation mode when Use hardware acceleration enabled" [Undecided,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/585910
<seb128> Sweetshark, ok
<qengho> seb128: there's also a ~chromium-ppa (I think) that (I think) many people are using
<seb128> qengho, no ppa for that team, I guess you will set it up once things are ready?
<seb128> qengho, ok, if you get any ppa you want testing on or that you recommend chromium users to run feel free to share once it's set up ;-)
<seb128> qengho, thanks
<seb128> chrisccoulson, hey, how is firefox doing compared to chromium this week? ;-)
<chrisccoulson> not too bad ;)
<qengho> (Probaly better)
<chrisccoulson> - Looked at a webapps bug
<chrisccoulson> - Working through test failures in firefox
<chrisccoulson> - Started writing some packaging-related tests for firefox
<chrisccoulson> - Started working on menubar testing
<chrisccoulson> - Started work on getting tests running in thunderbird too
<chrisccoulson> - Firefox 18 Beta is in Raring + the firefox-next PPA
<chrisccoulson> that's my summary for the week :)
<seb128> testing for the win ;-)
<seb128> chrisccoulson,  thanks for help the webapp guys with the security issue ... did that fix the top issues on the mozilla tracker side? there were some you were unsure if the issue was the same?
<chrisccoulson> seb128, there's still quite a few crashes actually. i wonder how long it takes for people to upgrade?
<seb128> that's a good question... too long usually
<chrisccoulson> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=814790
<ubot2> Mozilla bug 814790 in Extension Compatibility "crash in libunity-webapps.so.0.0.0 with Ubuntu Unity Web App" [Critical,New]
<seb128> let's keep an eye on that
<seb128> it would be good to ensure those issues are resolved
<seb128> chrisccoulson, thanks
<seb128> didrocks, hey
<didrocks> Daily autolanding in ubuntu successfully for some PS projects! We are now at 16 projects configured for landing (mostly indicators). Thanks to the work of the whole team :) Still some issues with autopilot getting resolved, hoping to be able to activate the unity stack by EOW!
<chrisccoulson> i've only just seen that bug actually. normally somebody CC's me on those
<didrocks> Then, daily unity maintenance, some SRUs, nothing fancy but busy review times for all PS projects and inlining/bootstrapping (a lot lot lot lot lot) ;)
<didrocks> ..
<seb128> didrocks, thanks, looking forward to see unity autolanding, indicators are a good appetizer ;-)
<didrocks> heh, indeed! :-)
<seb128> Laney, hey
<Laney> yo
<Laney> watch how fast I can type
<Laney> More work on porting for GStreamer 1.0. Did some upstream work - ubiquity, unity-lens-music (or was this last week?), a fair bit on Rhythmbox (DAAP works now, visualization not and probably will be like this for the first landing). Hope to land this week after filing bugs and getting some remaining changes tested/merged (xnox: lp:~laney/ubiquity/webcam-gst-1.0 ;-) ). Landing plan is on the pad. Not everything will be done ...
<kenvandine> wow!
<Laney> ... straight away but there shouldn't be any 'problematic' (dual stack) sources in the default install at least. Having some broken packages in universe is the price we'll pay for landing now; hopefully will provide incentive for people to fix... On holiday next week.
<Laney> â 
<seb128> land land land! ;-)
<seb128> Laney, enjoy the holidays
<seb128> I guess we are going to start seeing lot of people on holidays soon, quite some of us still have a stack of days to take ;-)
<xnox> Laney: what pad?
<Laney> ubuntu desktop one
<Laney> topic
<seb128> Laney, thanks
<seb128> kenvandine, hey
<kenvandine> i'll make this quick, i need to duck out to meet someone coming to do some work on the house :)
<kenvandine> We hope to have some of the webapps/webaccounts packages autolanding in ubuntu this week.  Most of the inline packaging branches have been merged, now it is just having the confidence in the tests to enable autolanding.
<kenvandine> There are some SRUs that are still in the queue, I guess the SRU team is a bit backlogged.  I have some more coming, but need to land the fixes in raring first.
<kenvandine> EOF
<kenvandine> :)
<seb128> kenvandine, thanks
<seb128> mlankhorst, hey
<mlankhorst> - getting quantal lts stack ready for precise (where have you heard that before)
 * kenvandine runs... ping me in 20m if you have questions please :)
<seb128> mlankhorst, so playing to test the xorg stack? ;-)
<mlankhorst> - upstreaming kernel patches (again..)
<mlankhorst> - more nouveau/steam testing
<mlankhorst> - nouveau vdpau kernel stuff upstreamed, deciding how to approach userspace still
<mlankhorst> - upstreaming things in wine, 1 patch every biweekly release!
<mlankhorst> EOD
<mlankhorst> and the upstreaming kernel patches..
<seb128> mlankhorst, when is the updated xorg stack planned to land in precise?
<mlankhorst> as soon as llvm-3.1 is
<mlankhorst> at this point
<mlankhorst> only blocker left
<seb128> ok
<seb128> I need to SRU https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-settings-daemon/+bug/1034090
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1034090 in gnome-settings-daemon "Hotkeys not functional after upgrade to quantal" [Medium,Fix released]
<seb128> mlankhorst, multimedia keys will break otherwise, the current precise code doesn't handle xinput 2.2 well
<seb128> mlankhorst, thanks
<xnox> Laney: so, if I can test the webcam port, is it ok to be uploaded or does it need to wait on something?
<seb128> cyphermox, hey
<cyphermox> hey
<cyphermox> aha! finishing the indicator stack packaging import (3 are blocked on failing tests, and I'm asking the right people to take care of them), also finishing oif/autopilot, etc. In other news, I uploaded nm-applet yesterday, you'll see that there are changes in nm-connection-editor in the way connections are listed and represented, and you can now do VLAN and bonding via the GUI.
<cyphermox> ..
<Laney> xnox: wait for me to upload the plugins this week
<xnox> Laney: ack.
<mlankhorst> seb128: Yeah I'm quite happy atm, still want some special case for mesa-dev packages to simplify my life, but that's about it really..
<Laney> and for them to be promoted (oops, elt's wait until after meeting)
<seb128> cyphermox, thanks
<seb128> mterry, hey
<mterry> I've been prototyping the containment 'prompt for a file' library/daemon.  I've patched deja-dup to ignore Steam's files by default (probably should SRU that), and I've worked further on Unity branch inlining/updating.  Oh and I'm on holiday for the rest of the week after this meeting.  :)  EOL
<mterry> I'll still likely be reachable though
<mterry> And scanning email
<seb128> mterry, enjoy your holidays
<seb128> mterry, I still have your wiki page bookmarked, I should read it/comment ... will try to do that today ;-)
<seb128> or I guess I've time if you are holidays for the rest of the week ;-)
<seb128> mterry, thanks
<mterry> yup  :)
<seb128> robru|packing, hey
<robru|packing> seb128, hey ;-)
<robru|packing> - big package inlining blitz last week, did at least 12 that I remember, in just a couple days.
<robru|packing> - turns out not all of them were perfect ;-)
<robru|packing> - already noticed a few other people picked up where I left off, so that's still progressing
<robru|packing> - landed some lp:friends stuff from PS team, notably Twitter contacts are now in place.
<robru|packing> - on a personal note, I started doing daily autobuilds of darktable for raring, since the official darktable maintainers only had quantal packages. ppa here: https://launchpad.net/~robru/+archive/darktable-daily
<robru|packing> thanks ;-)
<seb128> robru|packing, good work on the PS packaging bootstrapping, especially taking into account that you don't have years of packaging behind you ;-)
<seb128> robru|packing, thanks, good luck with the packaging and moving and enjoy your birthday!
<robru|packing> seb128, haha, thanks. really I was just doing what kenvandine and didrocks tell me to ;-)
<seb128> packaging->packing
<robru|packing> seb128, thanks! see you all next week!
<seb128> (doh, autofingers)
<didrocks> see you robru|packing!
<seb128> attente, hey
<attente> seb128: hi!
<attente> continued progress on the menu export module
<attente> the module is in a decent semi-not-totally-broken state, with the following outstanding issues to address:
<attente> 1. test the radio menu item actions more
<attente> 2. it's using memory addresses for action names *ducks*
<attente> 3. figure out why there's an extra item at the end of every gedit menu
<attente> 4. figure out why eog is overriding the x properties the module sets
<attente> 5. add more tests
<attente> 6. make module leaner/faster
<attente> 7. document the code
<attente> 8. need to add menu shell insert signals to GTK+ 2
<seb128> (lol at 2. ;-)
<attente> :)
<attente> ...
<seb128> nice to see the progresses
<seb128> would you like feedback/testing from other users yet? or do you have enough known issue that you think it's not useful yet?
<seb128> also, where can we find your code if we want to play with it?
<attente> seb128: i have it on a junk branch here: https://code.launchpad.net/~attente/+junk/unity-gtk-module
<attente> as far as user testing, maybe i can get it good enough to push out a ppa
<desrt> attente: did you fix the crash issue?
<desrt> attente: and did you fix the GtkUIManager issue?
<attente> desrt: you were right, it's a problem with the x properties, not the GtkUIManager
<attente> desrt: the crash no longer exists
<desrt> double score
<desrt> attente: you're going to need to find a sane way of dealing properly with GtkApplicationWindow
<seb128> attente, I will get it a try, if it works fine we can maybe push it to the ubuntu-desktop ppa next
<seb128> attente, thanks
<seb128> so from me
<seb128> - GNOME updates, landed gnome-settings-daemon gnome-control-center 3.6 without ibus
<seb128> - decided to stay on the stable ibus until the details are sorted out (upstream work involved)
<seb128> - extra syncs and merges with debian
<seb128> some sponsoring today, the queue was back over 100 items
<seb128> please don't skip your sponsoring shifts
<seb128> everybody is busy but you should find at least an hour a week to tackle some items
<seb128> if you missed a shift please try to catch back on that by doing some reviews even if it's not your official day
<seb128> next for me: looking at the performances issues and what we can start improving
<seb128> ...
<Laney> what situation do we get without ibus?
<seb128> good, we did fit in a half an hour for the team round
<seb128> is there any question/comment/...?
<tkamppeter> What I did:
<seb128> Laney, what we have atm is basically what we had for years
<seb128> tkamppeter, oh, sorry, I skipped you
<tkamppeter> Generally worked on the Blueprint about clients having to browse for remote printer's Bonjour broadcasts to replace the old CUPS broadcasting, especially
<tkamppeter> * Reported bugs on both GTK and Qt print dialogs to add Bonjour browsing, as upstream design of CUPS 1.6.x is the CUPS daemon to do Bonjour broadcasting of shared printers and the print dialog browsing Bonjour broadcasts of printers in the network. GTK dialog upstream maintainer Marek Kasik accepted the bug and raised it to high priority (tkamppeter).
<tkamppeter> * Decided on doing browsing for remote printers with extra daemon and not via a CUPS daemon patch (would not get accepted upstream). Extra daemon only for legacy.
<tkamppeter> * Discussed with Johannes Meixner (SuSE) and Mike Sweet (CUPS upstream) about extra daemon.
<tkamppeter> SRU for AirPrint support with iOS 6 on Precise.
<seb128> tkamppeter, is anyone upstream/in other distro going to help on the extra daemon?
<seb128> tkamppeter, thanks
<tkamppeter> seb128, unfortunately, not, I only succeeded the upstreams of the print dialogs to once work on the Bonjour browsing by the dialog, and second, to work on the CPD features we talked about on UDS (another Blueprint).
<seb128> tkamppeter, ok, having the toolkit guys wanting to add that feature is a good news
<seb128> tkamppeter, thanks
<seb128>  
<seb128> so
<seb128> Laney, so what I did for g-s-d and g-c-c is to revert the keyboard plugins to the 3.4 codebase
<seb128> so we are back to what we had until quantal
<seb128> including the indicator
<Laney> ok
<seb128> ideally we should look if we can take 3.6 and simple do --disable-ibus
<tkamppeter> seb128, only problem is that Sweetshark will not switch LO to the GTK dialog, as some features like preview are not in the GTK dialog.
<seb128> one issue is that we would drop the "layout per win" option
<seb128> we will also need to the keyboard indicator done to not regress if we go with 3.6
<seb128> to get the*
<Laney> that's a feature enabled by gcc?
<seb128> the indicator?
<Laney> the separate layouts
<tkamppeter> seb128, so then LO has either to rely on the legacy fallback extra daemon or the LO dialog needs also get browsing added.
<Laney> oh, yeah, not an IM thing
<Laney> I get it
<seb128> Laney, they have the same option for both im (in ibus, dropped in 1.5) and g-c-c for keyboard layout (dropped in 3.6)
<seb128> tkamppeter, ok, I guess Sweetshark should keep an eye on that
<tkamppeter> Sweetshark, around?
<seb128> Laney, we might want to drop the "replace language selector" work (again) if we stay with the 3.4 region capplet though...
<seb128>  
<seb128> ok, any other comment/question/...?
<Sweetshark> tkamppeter: pong
<Laney> maybe it'll become more clear in a few weeks
<seb128> Sweetshark, qengho, chrisccoulson, didrocks, Laney, kenvandine, mlankhorst, cyphermox, mterry, robru, attente, tkamppeter: thanks
<seb128> </meeting>
<didrocks> thanks ;)
<Laney> like if the ddl discussions generate a good solution which gets implemented we could maybe cherry pick some of that
<Laney> thanks
<seb128> Laney, yeah, we will need to tackle the keyboard indicator problem at some point
<Laney> yeah
<seb128> I'm a bit reluctant to write an indicator for the 3.4 stack though when we know we will likely go with the new ibus and GNOME stack at some point
<seb128> well 3.4 or even 3.6 with --disable-ibus
<Laney> if the gnome 3 ppa has vanilla 3.6 then the work could be done on top of that
<Laney> if someone wants to
<seb128> at the same time I'm not convinced that GNOME has a solid understanding of the problem space
<tkamppeter> Sweetshark, we need a solution for the LO print dialog. Problem is that for the new CUPS 1.6.x design the print dialogs are supposed to browse Bonjour broadcasts of remote network printers to list these printers. I have reported to the Qt and GTK folks and they will add this feature to their print dialogs, the GTK maintainer even put it on high priority.
<Laney> Personally I find it very alien
<Laney> so I wouldn't be surprised if other westerners feel the same
<seb128> there seem to be quite some pushback from communities in those discussions that hints that it's not as simple at all
<tkamppeter> Sweetshark, so LO will miss the network printers if we do not add the feature also to the LO dialog or switch over to the GTK dialog (loosing the preview).
<seb128> the last thing I want to do is to land in a position where we figure out 3 weeks before release that we screwed input for chinese users through e.g oem feedback
<Laney> someone said that they did a test reverting the IM whitelist and it wasn't too bad
<Laney> like perhaps we can fix 3.6 to be reasonably sane
<seb128> yeah
<seb128> well a good part of the magic is in gnome-shell's indicator
<seb128> I wish we had somebody with understanding of the problem space and time allocated to work on that
<Sweetshark> tkamppeter: hmmm
<seb128> I can do an indicator similar to what we had for keyboard layouts and for ibus but I'm not sure that's the right approch
<seb128> well anyway let's see how things go
<seb128> Sweetshark, do we know what other distros do for their print dialog? it feels like we should use the gtk dialog rather than the libreoffice one, that's what is used accross the desktop, including in firefox
<didrocks> after 16h, still not built on the daily build ppa :/
 * Laney saw that someone's working on sulfur now
<seb128> didrocks, powerpc?
<didrocks> yeah
<Sweetshark> seb128: well, the info that the gtk native print dialog isnt ready yet came from dtardon (who is at redhat). so I guess they will stick with LO dialogs for starters.
<seb128> Sweetshark, ok ... what's the issue with the native print dialog?
<didrocks> sux that this ppa has lower score than everything uploaded to the distro
<Laney> you can get the base score increased
<Laney> but perhaps it won't matter once we have three again
<didrocks> Laney: well, I think it needs to align on -proposed
<Sweetshark> seb128: network printers are a corner-case for 'enterprisy' users though ... they might just deploy the settings in a way to use the gtk dialogs (loosing the preview).
<tkamppeter> Sweetshark, seb128, the most important problem is that the LO dialog is not browsing for Bonjour broadcasts of shared remote printers.
<didrocks> Laney: depends, we want to have all stacks landing daily and not being deprioritized
<Laney> didrocks: you can file an RT and ping webops with it
<tkamppeter> Sweetshark, seb128, I have reported the problem to the maintainers of the GTK and Qt dialogs and they will add this functionality with high priority.
<didrocks> Laney: ok, I think I'll do that. Even if in normal state, it doesn't matter, it shows that we can't get daily build when we encountered an issue
<seb128> Sweetshark, well, our non LTS versions are not really targetting "enterprisy" users I guess, normal random users like to be able to e.g print when they go to the office with their laptop
<seb128> tkamppeter, right, thanks for getting upstream involved there
<tkamppeter> Sweetshark, seb128, LO needs this feature, too, either in its own dialog or by switching to the GTK dialog.
<seb128> (https://code.launchpad.net/~andyrock/compiz/fix-781931/+merge/136309 go andyrock go \o/)
<seb128> would be good to see bug #781931 fixed
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 781931 in compiz (Ubuntu) "New windows are moved to front but don't take focus" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/781931
<tkamppeter> Sweetshark, seb128, another problem is the CPD features we talked about on the UDS. Qt and GTK upstreams will implement them, LO could get them for free when switching to the GTK dialog.
<Sweetshark> tkamppeter: did you/can you file an bug at LO? from an upstream perspective, running LO without gtk/qt integration is a valid scenario (although not one the Ubuntu desktop has) in general.
<tkamppeter> Sweetshark, seb128, networked printing is very important, many users complained when I switched to CUPS 1.6.1 and I had to forward-port the CUPS broadcasting as print dialogs and apps were not ready for Bonjour broadcasted printers.
<tkamppeter> Sweetshark, seb128, also the laptop use case which seb128 mentioned is rather common.
<Sweetshark> (e.g. debian has no default desktop and thus you are fine to run just plain and ugly X11 libreoffice)
<seb128> tkamppeter, right, we understand that, the issue is that Sweetshark says that libreoffice has issues which make hard to change to use the gtk dialog
<tkamppeter> Sweetshark, yes, I should also file a bug on LO, as I did for Qt and GTK, so that LO will also natively support the new CUPS.
<Sweetshark> tkamppeter: please cc me and dtardon on it.
<tkamppeter> Sweetshark, I will do so. To CC you and dtardon, what are the needed user names/e-mail addresses (you can send a private message to e for that).
<seb128> tkamppeter, could you look at the patch on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/hplip/+bug/1069324 ?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1069324 in hplip (Ubuntu) "diagnose_queues.py crashed with NameError in su_sudo(): global name 'utils' is not defined" [Medium,Triaged]
<seb128> tkamppeter, that's in the sponsoring queue
<mvo> seb128: is there a pygobject_3.4.0-1ubuntu1 already uploaded to quantal-proposed? I just wanted to upload a fix for a crash but it got rejected ?
<seb128> mvo, no, but that version existed in raring at some point and you can't reuse it
<seb128> mvo, 1ubuntu0.1
<seb128> use that
<mvo> seb128: cool, will do
<chrisccoulson> wow, i can't find any of my own addons in the crash data for firefox 17 :)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, great ;-)
<chrisccoulson> seb128, now that they are perfect, i need to leave them well alone ;)
<seb128> lol
<seb128> chrisccoulson, time to add new ones! ;-)
<chrisccoulson> lol
 * didrocks waves good evening
<tkamppeter> Sweetshark, seb128, LO bug report submitted as https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=57619
<ubot2> Freedesktop bug 57619 in Printing and PDF export "Print dialog needs to support Bonjour broadcasting of remote printers" [Critical,Unconfirmed]
<seb128> tkamppeter, thanks
<bcurtiswx> seems dead in here, holiday? conference?
<notgary> It usually is around this time of night
<jbicha> bcurtiswx: it's just the Europeans who talk all the time ;)
<bcurtiswx> jbicha, ah, OK then :)
<seb128> bcurtiswx, blame it on kenvandine
<seb128> it should be the time where the u.s guys are verbose
<seb128> but seem they prefer to get work done nowadays ;-)
<bcurtiswx> kenvandine gets work done?
 * bcurtiswx runs away
<kenvandine> from time to time
<kenvandine> :-D
 * bryce waves
<cyphermox> hey bryce
<seb128> jbicha, this proxy button...isn't the patch commented in 3.6? I don't think anyone ported it to the new version
<seb128> hey bryce
<jbicha> seb128: yes I'm pretty sure that's it, but it sure would be useful if people would let us know what version they're using when they report bugs :)
<seb128> right ;-)
<jbicha> on the other hand, I don't think we've done whatever magic we need to do to have apport work right with the gnome3 ppa
<desrt> jbicha has the worst job in the world
<jbicha> desrt: lol, that makes me feel better ;)
<jasoncwarner_> morning all
<seb128> hey jasoncwarner_
<seb128> desrt, ?
<thumper> jasoncwarner_: morning
<desrt> jasoncwarner_: good morning
<jasoncwarner_> hey seb128 thumper desrt :)
<seb128> desrt, the gnome3 ppa maintainship you mean or speaking about something else?
<jasoncwarner_> bryce robert_ancell RAOF TheMuso https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2012-11-27 in 15 minutes !
<desrt> seb128: no.  that. :)
<attente> another meeting?
<robert_ancell> we heard you like meetings, so we put a meeting in your meeting
<bryce> heya
<seb128> attente, yeah, those .au/.nz people refuse to wake up at 3am for the real meeting ;-)
<veebers> hmm, if I have an apport .crash file from another machine, I should be about to: 'ubuntu-bug -c <thefile.crash>' right?
 * TheMuso used to do that once when he was in the foundations team, but back then it was the platform team.
<TheMuso> I.e I got up at 3AM weekly for a few months or so, and then we rotated so that others shared the pain.
 * attente needs his beauty sleep
<bryce> TheMuso, I remember that.  ugh.
<seb128> veebers, not sure, running the command collects info on the system as well
<veebers> seb128: I've tried the command, it pops up a dialog but when I hit continue that's it
<desrt> attente: up all night hacking? :)
<attente> desrt: just that i wouldn't be functional for a 3am meeting
<desrt> attente: you can barely stay awake at 3pm :p
<jasoncwarner_> robert_ancell: lol...
<jasoncwarner_> bryce robert_ancell RAOF TheMuso https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2012-11-27 is -2 minutes
<RAOF> Yo!
<TheMuso> bryce: Yeah it wasn't fun.
<jasoncwarner_> I believe we decided to do quick updates at UDS, right? so..(very) quick round-robin.
<jasoncwarner_> robert_ancell, care to kick it off?
<robert_ancell> did some SRUing of lightdm bugs
<robert_ancell> looked into autopilot
<robert_ancell> continue to make http://people.canonical.com/~platform/desktop/desktop.html reflect the correct packages and keep things up to date
<robert_ancell> eot
<jasoncwarner_> robert_ancell: have you and pitti connected on the unity/nux perf testing bits yet?
<jasoncwarner_> bryce: care to take it next? :)
<bryce> sure
<bryce> set up https://wiki.ubuntu.com/X/TODO to track what the X team is working on, and random task requests that come in
<bryce> fixed a nasty input rotation bug on nexus7.  finally portrait mode is usable
<robert_ancell> jasoncwarner_, briefly. There isn't any major additional tooling required that we can see, awaiting any call from pitti if any specific work required
<bryce> bunch of random valve gaming stuff
<bryce> beyond that, sru's and helped tseliot with proprietary driver updates
<jasoncwarner_> thanks, bryce
<jasoncwarner_> TheMuso , your turn?
<jasoncwarner_> or, perhaps RAOF jump in?
<TheMuso> Ok. I've made a good start on extending Orca with touch support, still implementing glue code at the moment, since to allow gestures to be customized, a human readable way of expressing them, i.e in words, is needed, and Orca tends to abstract things away from its core a bit to make things more modular, but going well so far.
<TheMuso> No movement on discussion with Unity/GNOME upstrea about touch and desktops that want to offer touch gestures, I need to prod some unity folks to chime in, since its mostly their knowledge and ideas I want to work with for making things play nice with Orca and Unity.
<TheMuso> Also helping David from HWE to get Pulse 3 into Ubuntu, still in early testing phase, he has packages in his PPA.
<TheMuso> We need to write MIRs and get packages into the archive for the new release, the alter being done already, just the MIRs to go.
<TheMuso> I still need to sort out community testing for pulse 3 as well.
<jasoncwarner_> thanks, TheMuso
<RAOF> Lots of non-desktop-team hacking for me.
<RAOF> I'm now taking a break from that and getting colord in shape.
<RAOF> Should have our patches upstream, updated to the latest release today or so. Plus some bonus SRU action.
<RAOF> Also! Today is my SRU vanguard - Unity is already scheduled, but should you have any other high priority SRUs in the queue, feel free to ping me to get them prioritised.
<bryce> RAOF, fglrx-experimental-9.
<seb128> RAOF, SRU reviews  \o/
<jasoncwarner_> thanks RAOF
<seb128> RAOF, http://launchpadlibrarian.net/123208124/gnome-settings-daemon_3.4.2-0ubuntu0.6_source.changes please
<jasoncwarner_> any questions for the above?
<bryce> RAOF, and any other jockey/nvidia/fglrx bits laying around.  I think the other SRU admins aren't looking at X driver stuff, so you're our only hope obi raof.  :-)
<RAOF> :)
<seb128> RAOF, http://launchpadlibrarian.net/123415824/gnome-control-center_3.4.2-0ubuntu0.7_source.changes as well
<seb128> RAOF, thanks
<seb128> RAOF, I'm sure Sweetshark would welcome libreoffice review but I guess most people want to stay away from reviewing that ;-)
<RAOF> Yeah. That'd be an all-my-SRU-time enterprise :)
<seb128> RAOF, oh, you might want to look at lightdm/unity-greeter just to see if it's SRU compliant... I've the feeling robert_ancell might wait 3 weeks to be told that some entries in the changelog have no corresponding bugs and that he needs to go through the upload/review again with that fixed
<bryce> RAOF, also check your email box for a few Q's from me.  I'm needing to draft up a plan for jason but need your input on stuff.
<bryce> jasoncwarner_, looks like we're all done
<jasoncwarner_> bryce: yup, sorry :) didn't end the meeting
<jasoncwarner_> done
<jasoncwarner_> !
#ubuntu-desktop 2012-11-28
<mlankhorst> where's warner, find warner!
<attente> ?
<jasoncwarner_> mlankhorst: ? :)
<mlankhorst> from the wheres jason emails :)
<jasoncwarner> mlankhorst: ah....can't believe we let someone in from a non-approved country...I mean, what's up with that?! ;)
 * mlankhorst whistles
<mlankhorst> .eu is a country right?
<RAOF> Man, that compiz SRU included more faffing around than was really necessary.
<robru|packing> jasoncwarner, who are you and why are you trying to impersonate jasoncwarner_?
 * desrt notes that a really large portion of the desktop team is from commonwealth and/or francophonie nations
 * desrt notes that the plurality country of the desktop team is a commonwealth member of the francophonie
<desrt> m_conley: hey
<desrt> m_conley: see this?   http://news.cnet.com/8301-1023_3-57554885-93/gmail-meet-google-drive-and-behold-10gb-file-transfers/
<m_conley> desrt: good lord
<m_conley> desrt: 10gb
<desrt> m_conley: the idea seems.... familiar, somehow
<Chucrute301> *-*
<m_conley> desrt: if you're referring to Filelink, 10GB is way outta range. :) I think YouSendIt, Box and Dropbox cap at something like 500MB per file.
<m_conley> still, it might be nice if somebody built a Filelink provider for Google Drive
<desrt> m_conley: not really referring to the file size so much as the idea...
<m_conley> desrt: righto
<pitti> Good morning
<pitti> jasoncwarner: I'm not actively working on unity bits right now; nobody asked me for some specifics what to help with so far
<pitti> guess I'll talk to pgraner and mmrazik
<didrocks> good morning
<desrt> good night :p
<didrocks> hey desrt, enjoy! ;)
<mvo> pitti: good morning! re bug #1078297> is this in -proposed waiting for inclusion since "2012-11-13"? i.e. my upload was rejected because its already there?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1078297 in pygobject (Ubuntu Quantal) "Crashes with GLib.child_watch_add" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1078297
<mvo> pitti: please note that in order to fix this in software-center there needs to be a software-center fix as well, so it may be better to unduplicate the s-c bug or to add a new software-center task, either way is fine with me
<pitti> mvo: good morniung
<pitti> mvo: sorry, I should have thought about this upload yesterday, but I forgot about it
<pitti> mvo: yes, it has indeed been in the queue for > 2 weeks already :(
<pitti> mvo: ah ok; let's unduplicate then, and close the pygobject task with a reference to the other bug
<mvo> pitti: thanks, will do
<pitti> doing already
<mvo> pitti: cool, even better :)
<mvo> pitti: its a bit frustrating that LP gives on visibility into uploads that wait for review ./
<pitti> mvo: it does: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/quantal/+queue?queue_state=1
<didrocks> good morning mvo :)
<pitti> mvo: ok, I updated both bugs now
<pitti> mvo: I sent the explanation to bug 1083694 this morning, BTW
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1083694 in software-center (Ubuntu Quantal) "crash/hang when submiting review updates" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1083694
<mvo> pitti: aha, need to keep that in my bookmarks
<mvo> didrocks: good morning!
<mvo> pitti: if you could look at/approve https://code.launchpad.net/~mvo/software-center/5.4-fix-threading/+merge/136475 that would be perfect, then I do the software-center SRU now
<pitti> mvo: commented (LGTM)
<mvo> ta
 * mvo prepeares upload
<seb128> hey desktopers
<didrocks> salut seb128 !
<didrocks> Laney: hey, do you know which branch we should push for the SRU when using canonical branches? lp:ubuntu/quantal-proposed/compiz doesn't work and I never find the right syntax
<seb128> hey didrocks, en forme ?
<didrocks> seb128: Ã§a va bien! commencÃ© avec une longue discussion ;)
<didrocks> et toi?
<pitti> bonjour seb128
<seb128> ca va bien
<seb128> didrocks, that's the correct vcs but I think it doesn't exist until the first upload to that pocket
<seb128> pitti, lut!
<didrocks> seb128: yeah, but it's been accepted
<didrocks> this morning
<didrocks> hence my question ;)
<seb128> didrocks, https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/quantal/compiz/quantal
<seb128> but yeah, not for proposed...launchpad bug?
<didrocks> maybeâ¦
<didrocks> let me try s/quantal/quantal-proposed
<didrocks> with the long form
<didrocks> $ bzr push lp:~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/quantal/compiz/quantal-proposed
<didrocks> bzr: ERROR: Permission denied: "~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/quantal/compiz/quantal-proposed/": : Didier Roche is not a member of Ubuntu branches
<didrocks> no luck
<pitti> NB you can't create new branches that way
<pitti> if it already exists, you can use it
<pitti> (exists from a previous SRU, as the package importer created it)
<chrisccoulson> can  a shebang be more than 80 characters? i'm guessing not by my thunderbird build error:
<chrisccoulson> bash: /home/chr1s/src/thunderbird/build-area/thunderbird-trunk-20.0~a1~hg20121127r11622.114209/obj-x86_64-linux-gnu/mozilla/_tests/mozmill-virtualenv/bin/easy_install: /home/chr1s/src/thunderbird/build-area/thunderbird-trunk-20.0~a1~hg20121127r11: bad interpreter: Permission denied
<pitti> chrisccoulson: it's more likely that the interpreter is missing the +x perm
<chrisccoulson> pitti - the interpreter is executable. the interpreter is truncated to 80 characters in the error message though
<chrisccoulson> i wonder why i've not hit this in firefox yet :/
<pitti> hm, I never heard about such a limitation
<chrisccoulson> me neither, that's why i'm confused ;)
<chrisccoulson> it seems too much of a coincidence that the shell has truncated it to 80 characters though
<Laney> didrocks: yeah, just use a debdiff for SRUs, at least for the first one :(
<Laney> morning!
<didrocks> Laney: it's accepted right now
<didrocks> Laney: so, I want to push my branch :)
<Laney> did the importer not create it yet?
<pitti> chrisccoulson: confirmed
<pitti> $ cp /bin/bash /tmp/`seq -s '' 1 100`
<pitti> then I created a /tmp/test.sh with that, and it fails with the same error
<chrisccoulson> thanks
<pitti> chrisccoulson: hm, running through /usr/bin/env doesn't help either
<chrisccoulson> firefox is using python-virtualenv quite extensively throughout the build. that must be fairly close to failing as well
<didrocks> Laney: doesn't seem so (compiz on quantal)
<pitti> calling /tmp/12345678910<tab> /tmp/test.sh works, though
<pitti> chrisccoulson: so you might need to call the interpreter explicitly
<didrocks> Laney: and it's the second compiz SRU
<Laney> weird black magic
<Laney> oh, http://package-import.ubuntu.com/status/
<chrisccoulson> pitti, thanks. i'll modify the build system to do that
<Laney> maybe a member of ~ubuntu-branches (someone on the TB ...) could do it manually if that wouldn't brea kstuff
<didrocks> Laney: ok, I'll ask for it
<didrocks> thanks Laney ;)
<didrocks> if only I knew someone of the TB
<didrocks> oh a pitti! :)
 * pitti runs
<didrocks> pitti: too late :-) would you mind pushing lp:~didrocks/compiz/quantal to some quantal-proposed branch? :)
<universal_tb_pri> oh, that didn't work
<didrocks> ahah :)
<pitti> /nick universal_tb_priv_command_executor
<pitti> didrocks: "some"?
<pitti> didrocks: the UDD branch, or some ~ubuntu-core-dev etc. one?
<didrocks> pitti: I guess lp:ubuntu/quantal-proposed/compiz is the canonical url?
<pitti> ah, so the UDD one
<didrocks> yes please :)
<didrocks> or is it for ~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/quantal/compiz/quantal-proposed/ for the full url?
<pitti> same thing
 * didrocks like the UDD short one, the only one I can remember even if the second is indeed logical
<pitti> bzr: ERROR: Der Server meldete einen unerwarteten Fehler: ('error', 'xmlrpclib.Fault', '<Fault -1: "Unexpected Zope exception: TypeError: (\'Could not adapt\', <SuiteSourcePackage ubuntu/quantal-proposed/compiz>, <InterfaceClass lp.code.interfaces.branchtarget.IBranchTarget>)">')
<didrocks> Laney: I think I just discovered yetanotherurl :)
<Laney> heh
<didrocks> pitti: I think you need to use the full URL first
<Laney> that's the "why isn't UDD working?!?!?!" url
<didrocks> pitti: at least, that's where I got the "permission denied"
<pitti> bzr push bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/+branch/ubuntu/quantal-proposed/compiz
<pitti> same error
<didrocks> Laney: heh ;)
<didrocks> ah?
<didrocks> even with ~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/quantal/compiz/quantal-proposed/ ?
<pitti> $ bzr push lp:~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/quantal/compiz/quantal-proposed
<pitti> that seems to get further
<pitti> Packaging branch version: None
<pitti> Packaging branch status: OUT-OF-DATE
<pitti> Created new stacked branch referring to /+branch-id/673165.
<pitti> and done
<didrocks> thanks pitti ;)
<pitti> bzr branch lp:ubuntu/quantal-proposed/compiz -> still failing, though
 * didrocks is trying as well
<didrocks> yeah, failing
<pitti> didrocks: any reason to not just upload it and let the importer sort it out?
<pitti> you can then push --overwrite, to "fix" the history
<didrocks> pitti: well, it's been 2 uploads (and 2 months) that the first SRU is released
<pitti> but I never found UDD to work well for SRUs
<didrocks> pitti: and it was never imported
<didrocks> pitti: we use it for the daily build pre-raring (pre packaging-inlining)
<Laney> the compiz importer is broken per that URL I gave a minute ago
<didrocks> hence we used the pitti-universal_tb_priv_command_executor trick :)
<Laney> yeah, just saying that's why 'just upload'ing didn't work :)
<maxb> The concept of how the UDD importer should work in concert with packagers who actually *use* UDD too seems sadly fuzzy :-/
<maxb> Which makes fixing it rather hard
<Laney> it's hard to advocate that people try to use it when there's still roadblocks like these
<Laney> like it doesn't really matter if the importer is broken for a package which is actively maintained in UDD until you can't push your SRU branches because there's no way for mortals to create them
<didrocks> I agree
<didrocks> that's one (but not the only one) of the reason that we are going with inline packaging for the unity stack
<didrocks> (knowing that make dist doesn't distribute the packaging)
<chrisccoulson> pitti, oh, it's actually fixed in newer versions of python-virtualenv
<chrisccoulson> pitti, https://github.com/pypa/virtualenv/blob/develop/virtualenv.py#L637
<maxb> The SRU branch thing is, I guess, something solely needing fixing on the LP side
<seb128> chrisccoulson, backport the patch ;-)
<maxb> Other problems are the importer's completely unhelpful rendering of v3 quilt packaging branches, and it having fights with ever-so-slightly-different revisions that humans push
<chrisccoulson> right, trying the build again. hopefully i get a nice shiny testsuite to run at the end of it :)
<dholbach> hiya
<dholbach> can anyone reply to https://twitter.com/lmukadam/statuses/273548780324925440 please?
<seb128> dholbach, salut
<seb128> dholbach, no plan to change anything yet, geary is too new to even consider it
<dholbach> ok, will reply
<chrisccoulson> new and shiny? but that's the only criteria isn't it? ;)
<mvo> in raring when I run xvfb-run for my software-center tests I see hangs - anyone lese having trouble with that in raring?
<pitti> mvo: not here, seems to work fine; I use xvfb-run in pygobject and apport, and the autopkgtest never failed for those
<mvo> pitti: thanks, that is good to know
<pitti> mvo: I do have to wait for a previosu instance to finish before I run the next one, though (for tests which start xvfb multiple times)
<didrocks> jibel: FYI, oif bootstrapped as well (and added more to misc for autopilot and so on)
<didrocks> 21 projects are live now
<didrocks> 4 indicators are ready, but waiting on tests to be fixed
<didrocks> 16 for unity are ready, but waiting on autopilot
<mvo> pitti: hm,hm, it appears that the new python-gi affects signal handling in some way, this http://paste.ubuntu.com/1394083/ used to work (I use it in the software-center testsuite) but does no longer stop aptd, the signal does not reach it. but my naive http://paste.ubuntu.com/1394086/ reproduce script is doing fine
<pitti> $ aptd --dummy --session-bus
<pitti> that runs here, how does it fail for you?
<mvo> pitti: it runs but it won't stop on sending sigterm
<mvo> pitti: that used to work
<pitti> killall -TERM aptd
<pitti> indeed
<pitti> mvo: can you please file a bug about it? that seems to be a rather serious regression
<pitti> mvo: on bugzilla preferrably, but LP is okay, too
<mvo> pitti: sure, hold on a sec, its not entirely trivial to reproduce, I'm working on a testcase right now
<pitti> mvo: but report with apt seems fine; I'll see to writing a test case then
<mvo> pitti: https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=689208
<ubot2> Gnome bug 689208 in general "signal handling issues with 3.7 issues" [Normal,Unconfirmed]
<mvo> pitti: do you have a idea already or is it worth for me to explore a bit more on the minimla testcase front?
<pitti> mvo: I have an idea
<pitti> mvo: danke fuer den report
<pitti> mvo: presumably from this tiny commit: http://git.gnome.org/browse/pygobject/commit/?id=191cf45a
<pitti> mvo: I'l have a look ASAP
<pitti> note, regardless how many tests you write, there is always the n+1st bug
<mvo> pitti: heh, so true - it bugs me a bit that I can't write a easy testcase
<chrisccoulson> i wonder why kenvandine uploaded the original patch from bug 1076350?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1076350 in WebApps: unity-firefox-extension "Crash when navigating to another page immediately after initializing unity integration" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1076350
<pitti> mvo: I hope that tests/test_mainloop.py test_sigint() written with s/INT/TERM/ will reproduce it
<pitti> hm, killing a simple MainLoop with SIGTERM works fine
<pitti> mvo: http://paste.ubuntu.com/1394144/ succeeds here; so I guess aptdaemon is doing something slightly more complicated
<mvo> pitti: yeah, like I wrote before, a trivial testcase worked for me too, aptdaemon is doing more stuff indeed, dbus for a start, not sure if that affects it. and is using the dbus glib mainloop
<pitti>            import dbus.mainloop.glib
<pitti>             dbus.mainloop.glib.DBusGMainLoop(set_as_default=True)
<pitti> when I add this to the test, it still works
<pitti> mvo: ok, I'll keep digging
<seb128> chrisccoulson, he likely didn't follow the issue closely enough and picked the first one he crossed
<mvo> yeah, same here :/
<pitti> [pid  9375] --- SIGTERM (Terminated) @ 0 (0) ---
<pitti> [pid  9375] rt_sigreturn(0xf)           = -1 EINTR (Interrupted system call)
<pitti> mvo: ^ that's what strace shows me in apt; EINTR sounds fishy
<mvo> pitti: indeed, same here
<pitti> oh, old pygobject apparently installed a signal handler for all signals, not just SIGINT
<pitti> so this seems to be a GLib thing which previously has been shadowed by a pygobject hack
<mvo> pitti: so its all desrt fault?
<pitti> so in a way this brings current pygobject closer to the glib behaviour, but is of course a behavioural change
<pitti> hm, but even if I do install a SIGTERM handler, it's not being called
<pitti> hm, aptdaemon does a lot of signal handling by itself, RTFS
<pitti> ./aptdaemon/core.py:        signal.signal(signal.SIGTERM, self._sigquit)
<pitti> mvo: ^ when I comment this out, it works
<pitti> (it doesn't call its .Quit(), of course)
<mvo> pitti: right
<mhr3> why don't you use glib's signal sources?
<mhr3> they play nice with mainloop
<mvo> mhr3: no reason really, let me see if that fixes it
<mvo> mhr3: well, except "introspectable="0"" in g_unix_signal_add
<pitti> unix_signal_add_full()
<mvo> cool
<pitti> this is missing an annotation in glib to expose itself as unix_signal_add
<mvo> hrm, hrm, hrm, no cookie for me with that as well, this works in my minimal sigterm.py but no trace of delivery in aptdaemon
<mvo> oh, no
<mvo> if used correct it seems to be fine *cough*
<pitti> mvo: FYI: http://git.gnome.org/browse/glib/commit/?id=fca30c3e165d
<mvo> pitti, mhr3: thanks, I prepare a branch for that, regardless of the bug this is cleaner to use
<mvo> pitti: \o/
<pitti> mvo: that will break a call to _full(), though
<pitti> but it's more consistent that way with the other API
<mvo> pitti: I'm not sure I understand, can I still ue _full() ?
<pitti> no, that'll be unix_signal_add() then
<mvo> pitti: ok, so I will prepare the branch and note that it needs a later pygobject
<pitti> that's a bit of a problem with "Rename to:"
<pitti> mvo: not pygobject, but gobject-introspection (which ships the GLib .gir)
<pitti> c'est difficile :(
<mvo> pitti: could there be a compat interface? i.e. deprecation warning but still providing the other name?
<pitti> yes, I can add an override
<mvo> pitti: other people might use _full() already, no?
<mvo> pitti: oh, joy, SIGQUIT is used right now but not supported by the g_unix_signal_source_new but I guess its esoteric enough that it can be ignored?
<pitti> right, SIGQUIT doesn't seem to work either
<pitti> mvo: that's Ctrl+\
<pitti> not that big of a deal, I guess
<mvo> pitti: yeah
<mvo> (thats what I meant with esoteric :)
<pitti> mvo: http://git.gnome.org/browse/pygobject/commit/?id=e45c690bc83b6d513887649de88965a9752e316d
<mvo> pitti: https://code.launchpad.net/~mvo/aptdaemon/use-glib-unix-signal-handling/+merge/136626 <- if that looks ok I will merge/upload
<mvo> pitti: nice!
<pitti> LGTM, MP updated
<pitti> as for the bugzilla report, I'm still not quite sure what happens here
<pitti> so glib does something funky with signals, and aptdaemon re-routes it
<pitti> and pygobject's former re-routing (which also used g_unix_signal) somehow made it work
 * pitti installs pygi 3.4 to see which one was actually called
<pitti> mvo: hm, I installed 3.4.2, and that didn't work either
<pitti> oh, I'm sorry; I had a hacked source
<pitti> it does
<mvo> :)
<pitti> mvo: so because the old pygobject installed a signal watch pipe, aptdaemon's signal handler got enabled
<pitti> fun
 * mvo prepares upload
<pitti> mvo: hm, http://paste.ubuntu.com/1394226/ with 3.4 exits with a KeyboardInterrupt, and the handler doesn't get called
 * mvo needs to head of for lunch
<mlankhorst> seb128: no irc log in the weekly summary?
<davmor2> hey guys is there a way to enable fglrx without Unity disappearing from the desktop in Quantal yet?
<mvo> pitti: if you have a moment https://code.launchpad.net/~mvo/aptdaemon/multiline-comments-fix/+merge/136656 is needed before I can do a new aptdaemon upload as otherwise my tests are breaking, quick eyeball would be great
<pitti> mvo: fun, so */ was handled, but not /* ?
<mvo> pitti: yeah, I was a bit puzzled by this too
<pitti> +1ed
<mvo> \o/
 * Laney uploads a test gstreamer 1.0 package
<Laney> brasero
<desrt> yawn
<Sweetshark> seb128: I am uploading a 3.5.7-0ubunutu2 adding bug 595910 to chinstrap. I havent tested that build locally yet, but am uploading to ppa right now (although it likely will fail because of size).
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 595910 in Launchpad itself "Forbidden error on +participation" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/595910
<seb128> Laney, \o/
<seb128> desrt, hey
<desrt> hi
<Laney> it's the smallest impact one I could find (no -good dep)
<seb128> Sweetshark, how much change does that update contain? wouldn't it be a good idea to test it? ;-)
<Laney> so should let us promote the main libraries
<seb128> Laney, cool
<Sweetshark> seb128: vs. the 3.5.7-0ubuntu1 upload? one patch that, a/ is on upstream master b/ has been reviewed on upstream 3.6 for backporting (and thus will be in quantal with the next 3.6.4 upload) c/ has even been uploaded for raring (although that was a waste of ressources)
<seb128> Sweetshark, ok
 * desrt kicks off morning jhbuildage
<seb128> Sweetshark, uploaded
<didrocks> hey desrt
<didrocks> long time no see ;)
<desrt> didrocks: :)
<Laney> done
 * Laney is scared now
<Sweetshark> seb128: thx
<seb128> Sweetshark, yw!
<Laney> if someone wants to promote gst-plugins-base1.0 to main it should be able to build right away
<tjaalton> i've a weird lightdm issue where lightdm appears to be working fine, but I see the console output with the mouse cursor (and hear bongos)
<tjaalton> this after reboot
<tjaalton> lightdm restart makes it normal again
<seb128> Sweetshark, Rejected:
<seb128> libreoffice_3.5.7-0ubuntu2.dsc: Version older than that in the archive. 1:3.5.7-0ubuntu2 <= 1:3.6.2~rc2-0ubuntu3
<seb128> Sweetshark, you probably want to target precise-proposed rather than quantal?
<seb128> tjaalton, not sure, seems like a vt race between xorg/plymouth/lightdm?
<tjaalton> plymouth isn't used in this case, ruled it out
<tjaalton> also, when I vt change the mouse is still there..
<tjaalton> oh well, I'll bug the intel guys then
 * Laney smiles sweetly at seb128 and didrocks and runs off to lunch
<seb128> Laney, I will have a look in a bit if didrocks, with his MIR hat, doesn't beat me
<seb128> theorically it's a MIR team job ;-)
 * didrocks feels no social pressure
<seb128> tjaalton, thanks
<seb128> didrocks, not at all
<seb128> ;-)
<Laney> I don't think it needs it as 0.10 is already in main
<Laney> at least infinity promoted the main gstreamer1.0 package on that basis
<seb128> Laney, susssh, don't ruin my plan :p
<Laney> :P
<didrocks> I'll just promote I guess after a quick look
<Laney> lunch â to the running shoe shop
 * Laney fears for his heart and lungs
<didrocks> Laney: enjoy!
<Sweetshark> seb128: dah, indeed. brainfart.
<Sweetshark> seb128: fixing
<seb128> Sweetshark, thanks
<pitti> chrisccoulson: hm, where can I see firefox' cookie blacklist?
<pitti> chrisccoulson: I removed some, and now firefox apparently automatically blacklisted the site I was removing cookies for
<pitti> and I can't figure out how to get them back
<chrisccoulson> pitti, permissions.sqlite
<kenvandine> didrocks, yay for seeing the first autolanding for webapps :)
<pitti> oh is that network.cookie.blockFutureCookies ?
<pitti> (in about:config)
<pitti> chrisccoulson: ^ that's "true" for me now
 * pitti resets it
<didrocks> kenvandine: yeah \o/
<didrocks> kenvandine: now your turn to bootstrap all the stack we are confident with! :)
<kenvandine> i manually did the last release of unity-firefox-extension just to get fixes out there
<pitti> chrisccoulson: ah, so there's no UI for this?
<chrisccoulson> pitti, i'm not even sure that setting is used anywhere
<pitti> no, still doesn't work
<seb128> kenvandine, hey, speaking of which, chrisccoulson suggested you took the wrong version of the patch you applied to it
<kenvandine> oh?
<kenvandine> i took what was merged into trunk
<seb128> chrisccoulson, <chrisccoulson>	i wonder why kenvandine uploaded the original patch from bug 1076350?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1076350 in WebApps: unity-firefox-extension "Crash when navigating to another page immediately after initializing unity integration" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1076350
<didrocks> kenvandine: so maybe we can have an automated one for the fix? :)
 * didrocks sees that as an opportunity
<kenvandine> chrisccoulson, i took rev 348
<Sweetshark> seb128: just for completeness: should the last-version in genchanges be the last successful -proposed upload, or the last successful precise upload?
<kenvandine> so i guess they merged the wrong version of the fix
<seb128> Sweetshark, the current version in -updates
<Sweetshark> seb128: k
<Sweetshark> seb128: then it was right for a change ;)
<seb128> Sweetshark, e.g you want to list everything > 1:3.5.4-0ubuntu1.1
<kenvandine> oh... that was the CVE
<Sweetshark> seb128: yep
<kenvandine> that was the version that mdeslaur uploaded
<kenvandine> i didn't modify the patch
<mdeslaur> huh? I took r350 and r351... https://launchpadlibrarian.net/123717655/unity-firefox-extension_2.4.1-0ubuntu1_2.4.1-0ubuntu1.1.diff.gz
<kenvandine> hey mdeslaur
<mdeslaur> kenvandine: hi!
<mdeslaur> kenvandine: I'm a bit confused :)
<kenvandine> it hasn't been merged into trunk yet
<kenvandine> https://code.launchpad.net/~zaspire/unity-firefox-extension/listen-tab-close/+merge/135266
<kenvandine> i am too :)
<pitti> chrisccoulson: ok, "select * from moz_hosts where type = 'cookie';" did the trick
<pitti> chrisccoulson: I'm sure my mother could figure this out :)
<mdeslaur> kenvandine: ah, yes, chrisccoulson told me that was the wrong one
<mdeslaur> kenvandine: the right fix is r350..351 from here: https://code.launchpad.net/~chrisccoulson/unity-firefox-extension/lp1076350
<kenvandine> ah
<chrisccoulson> of course, the right, right fix would be to rewrite it to stop attaching document specific objects to the outer window :)
<kenvandine> so the other branch shouldn't get merged
<kenvandine> someone should kill that MP :)
<kenvandine> chrisccoulson, is it worth another upload to change that?
<chrisccoulson> kenvandine, not really. i suspect that would be a much bigger change tbh
<kenvandine> ok
<kenvandine> well i need to relocate to the car dealership, getting work done :)
<chrisccoulson> and if you asked me to do that, i'd probably just start from scratch ;)
<kenvandine> hehe :)
<kenvandine> i'll be back in ~20-30m
<chrisccoulson> pitti, there are some issues atm (see https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=814554)
<ubot2> Mozilla bug 814554 in General "Firefox 17 silently stops processing permissions.sqlite when rejecting rules valid under Firefox 16" [Normal,Assigned]
<chrisccoulson> yours seems like the opposite problem though ;)
<Sweetshark> seb128: I dont need to version bump as this was rejected anyway, right?
<seb128> Sweetshark, correct, you never need to bump version for things that don't leave the queue
<seb128> Sweetshark, queue doesn't count, you can have several times the same version in it
<Sweetshark> seb128: I guessed so, but still a bit uncertain as I never do the sponsoring ...
<Sweetshark> seb128: fixed on chinstrap, currently building (although not on precise, but on quantal -- by precise pbuilder is already gone as 3.5.7 was the last upstream micro for 3.5)
<seb128> Sweetshark, ok
<didrocks> Laney: the packaging looked sane, I promoted the whole stack as the only one which was not in main was the gnomevfs one which obviously doesn't exist anymore
<Laney> didrocks: merci!
<didrocks> de rien :)
<mvo> pitti: sorry for naging again, just to double check "GLib.io_add_watch()" is really io_add_watch_full() i.e. I need to look at the signature of that C functions for the paramter order? or is there a better way to find out how its correctly called? working on lp:~mvo/software-center/fix-pygobject-deprecation-warnings atm
<pitti> mvo: right, that one already has a Rename:
<pitti>     <function name="io_add_watch_full"
<pitti>               c:identifier="g_io_add_watch_full"
<pitti>               shadows="io_add_watch">
<pitti> in /usr/share/gir-1.0/GLib-2.0.gir
<mvo> pitti: and I use GLib.PRIORITY_HIGH or will that become GLib.Priority.HIGH at some point (like most of the other consts)?
<seb128> Sweetshark, you got the .changes list of versions wrong (not a stopper), just pointing it ... I said > 1:3.5.4-0ubuntu1 not >= ... eg you should include all the changes since what is in -updates, 1:3.5.4-0ubuntu1 being in update it shouldn't be included
<pitti> mvo: no, those are global constants, not enums (historical reasons?)
<pitti> mvo: i. e. GLib.PRIORITY_HIGH is fine
<mvo> pitti: aha, ok
 * Sweetshark realizes he still reads "historical reasons" as "hysterical reasons" from his OpenOffice.org times ....
<mspencer> mpt: I have another question regarding Contributor Console.
<achiang> hello, i sent up an MP yesterday, but not sure if the right folks got notified... https://code.launchpad.net/~achiang/appmenu-gtk/memleaks-787736-780602/+merge/136550
<achiang> kenvandine: ^^ ??
 * kenvandine looks
<kenvandine> charles, larsu: i assume one of you are looking after appmenu-gtk right?
<kenvandine> oh, that's a backport
<achiang> right
 * charles looks
<achiang> the fix is already in trunk
<kenvandine> so you want to SRU that to precise?
<achiang> but it never got into precise
<achiang> correct
<achiang> i want to SRU into precise
<charles> kenvandine: yes, that's one of mine
<kenvandine> cyphermox, ^^ appmenu-gtk is your package right?
<charles> IMO it's likely safe for backport
<cyphermox> rawr
<cyphermox> "my" package ;)
<kenvandine> hehe :)
<charles> in balance tho, it's a smallish leak
<cyphermox> charles: doesn't take much if it gets called a lot
<cyphermox> achiang: I'll take care of it
<charles> plus, it's fixed in Q with no complaints so far
<seb128> it's not a trivial diff
<charles> so I'd say go for it
<achiang> charles: anything we can do to fix #780602 would help
<kenvandine> charles, do you know if there are other fixes in the 0.4 branch worthy of SRU?
<seb128> bug #780602
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 780602 in network-manager-applet (Ubuntu Precise) "nm-applet leaks memory and stops functioning after a while" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/780602
<charles> kenvandine: let me look at the changelog...
<achiang> cyphermox: i can prepare a debdiff to get another upload credit... ;)
<cyphermox> achiang: yes, that can help
<achiang> ok, well, i guess i'll wait for charles to accept the MP first
<charles> kenvandine: no, nothing else SRU worthy. not many changes in that package last cycle
<achiang> so in general, what is the process for doing SRUs when an upstream branch exists too? send MP for branch, wait for it to get accepted, then create a debdiff, subscribe ubuntu-sponsors, then do SRU paperwork?
<didrocks> achiang: right, it's the best workflow (but will change for raring and going on ;))
<didrocks> frmo*
<didrocks> from*
<charles> achiang: you'll want to pull in r160 as well
<seb128> Laney,
<Laney> I saw!
<achiang> didrocks: thanks. hopefully it will get simpler in raring. :)
<achiang> charles: ah, ok
<seb128> Laney, ;-)
<charles> achiang: that undoes g_debug() call in r158 that was too noisy
<didrocks> it definitively will :)
<achiang> charles: thanks
<Laney> building good now
<seb128> Laney, thanks
<Laney> you could promote it as-is
<Laney> it just misses some other plugins, but nothing brasero needs afaik
 * seb128 looks at didrocks :p
<seb128> didrocks, http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/component-mismatches.txt ... see what you did, didn't promote gst-good :p
<didrocks>  /quit toooooooooooooo late :-)
<charles> achiang: ping me after you update and I'll approve it
<achiang> charles: ack, thx
<didrocks> seb128: I promoted what I was aked to promote TBH :p
<Laney> is true, I didn't think it was good
<seb128> not good enough it seems
<Laney> badum tish
<didrocks> right, but not ugly
<didrocks> so we miss gstreamer1.0-pulseaudio
 * seb128 kicks firefox
<seb128> not listing the first awesome bar result in the popdown sucks, please give me that back rather than trying to be smart and autofile the entry
<didrocks>  * libpng-dev does not exist (pure virtual?)
<didrocks> Laney: ^?
<Laney> it probably is pure virtual
<didrocks> Laney: how the build-dep is working then? :)
<Laney> libpng12-dev is in main
<didrocks> Laney: libpng doesn't provide/have a package for libpng-dev
<didrocks> this is an issue on building, right?
<Laney> no, libpng12-dev Provides libpng-dev
<Laney> check the build log, it gets it right
<didrocks> weird, so deps aren't matched for installing a new package, but for build-deps it's fine?
 * didrocks is puzzled
<didrocks> Laney: do you know about this? (the logs looks good, but I wanted to know how this perform this magic) ^
<Laney> It's part of the contract that libpng provides
<Laney> a 'libpng-dev' pure virtual package that is guaranteed to only be provided by one real -dev package
<Laney> so that they can transition by changing the provides to libpng13-dev in future and every build-depending package doesn't have to be updated
<Laney> (won't work if you want a versioned BD though, as Provides are versionless, so in that case you have to use the real package name)
<didrocks> Laney: interesting, I didn't know there was a special case for a provides to be only done by one package
<didrocks> Laney: for that you just have one in the whole archive and it's enough? or you have more magic?
<didrocks> (doesn't seem from the packaging)
<Laney> I'm not sure what happens if there are multiple providers
<didrocks> yeah, I knew about the version-less, didn't know that this case was handled
<Laney> perhaps apt just arbitrarily chooses one to install
<didrocks> Laney: I guess, it's the same than for the deps case: it will tell you that there is no candidate
<Laney> or maybe it's an error
<didrocks> anyway, everything is good
<didrocks> promoting the missing stack
<Laney> awesome
<didrocks> (done)
<Laney> :-)
<Laney> tomorrow I'll push the big stack
<didrocks> sweet!
<Laney> after moving the rest of the plugins to good and filing bugs on at-risk packages
<Laney> hopefully won't require any more promotions
<didrocks> Laney: if you need, do not hesitate, it's quite quick for those
<achiang> charles: pulled in r160 too
<charles> achiang: thanks, approved
<achiang> charles: thanks! do you merge it or do i?
<charles> achiang: I /think/ the bot will do it, though I'm not positive that it watches the older branches for merges
<charles> achiang: if nothing happens, I'll merge it manually
<achiang> charles: ok, thanks
 * didrocks waves good evening
<seb128> didrocks, 'night
<didrocks> seb128: you too! if autolanding works fine, you'll have a lot of packages to NEW tomorrow :)
<seb128> I will keep an eye open for that ;-)
<didrocks> you'll need 2 I guess :p
<micahg> umm, I thought stuff that required NEW wouldn't be autouploaded
<seb128> I will open the second once the first one see something moving :p
<didrocks> micahg: why? It's ending up in the NEW queue
<didrocks> micahg: why would you care the way it was uploaded to ubuntu?
<micahg> didrocks: well, I was under the impression that debian dir changes required review before auto uploading
<didrocks> micahg: it does
<didrocks> micahg: and a manual hack
<micahg> ah, ok
<didrocks> ack*
<didrocks> so it will go through this process where I have to rerun the publisher manually
<didrocks> (even if I already ack the changes before adding the project to the stack)
<didrocks> so basically acking my ack ;) and then, as usual, having another archive admin to NEW it
<achiang> cyphermox: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/appmenu-gtk/+bug/787736
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 787736 in appmenu-gtk (Ubuntu) "RebuildData structs are leaked in rebuild() / do_rebuild()" [Medium,Fix released]
<Sweetshark> raring daily image fails with 'a general error when mounting filesystems'. Known issue?
<cyphermox> achiang: cool, thanks. I'll get to it right aster I'm done grabbing data from this modem
<achiang> cyphermox: thanks!
<Sweetshark> achiang: do you have a minute?
<achiang> Sweetshark: sure
<jbicha> Laney: we need a grilo MIR before uploading Totem 3.6
<seb128> or to disable the option?
<cyphermox> achiang: patch looks odd to me. are you sure that typedef struct _RecurseContext gets removed and really should be? I see it being removed but no removals of any reference to it
<achiang> cyphermox: i'll double-check it
<cyphermox> I looked fast
<achiang> cyphermox: might take me a bit
<achiang> cyphermox: ok, so removing _RecurseContext was commit r152.3.1 in trunk, which is "remove dead code" so it was never used anyway
<achiang> cyphermox: i cherrypicked the entire r158 patch, which had a cleanup in it, i guess (and was what was eventually merged into trunk)
<achiang> cyphermox: does that make sense? it's more obvious if you use bzr qlog on trunk, and expand r158
<cyphermox> well, np
<cyphermox> fair enough, it is indeed dead code
<cyphermox> I don't like patchless packages
<cyphermox> achiang: there is already a appmenu-gtk in precise-proposed, it was uploaded 2 hours ago
<cyphermox> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/appmenu-gtk/0.3.92-0ubuntu1.1
<jbicha> seb128: Laney: oh ok, I had trouble building without grilo earlier but it works now
<achiang> cyphermox: d'oh. i guess i'll respin with a new version?
<achiang> cyphermox: or rather, what is the protocol here?
<cyphermox> achiang: could you? then we'll have to deal with making sure they all get acked
<cyphermox> could be verification-failed and re-uploaded with all the fixes together I guess
<achiang> cyphermox: so: download 1.1 from -proposed, refresh my diff, re-test, then attach new debdiff with 1.2 version string?
<cyphermox> since it's a recent upload and not something that's been sitting in proposed for weeks
<cyphermox> yeah, there's a procedure for this but I can't remember all the details...
<achiang> ubuntu development is somewhere between linux-kernel and hpux kernel in development complexity/process ;)
 * Sweetshark starts a VM with 24GB RAM and 32 cores on his desktop. Yep -- works.
<Sweetshark> .oO(... and thus that machine has more RAM than discspace)
<xnox> Sweetshark: that will fail to install ubuntu-desktop as it will try to allocate 24GB for swap and fail the install
<cyphermox> achiang: it's that you don't want to just kill off the sru that is already in "progress", but at the same time you don't have to wait 7+ days for it to be verified and make it to -updates, and since it's SRUs all the individual changes need to be verified ;)
<achiang> cyphermox: so, what should i do? this is ... hard :)
<Sweetshark> xnox: hum, seemed to have worked out. lemme check that.
<xnox> Sweetshark: as in, ubiquity install should/will fail
<xnox> installer
<Sweetshark> xnox: I just clicked though the installer (12.10) and got 4.3G / and 11G /home but no swap.
<xnox> Sweetshark: did you do any funny preseeding? (and this is with ubuntu desktop cd / ubiquity or something else?)
<seb128> Sweetshark, that's weird, clicking through the installer shouldn't give you a separate user dir
<xnox> I was expecting you to experience a Laney classic bug 1066964
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1066964 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Auto partitioner can create a root partition which is too small" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1066964
<Sweetshark> xnox: vanilla 12.10 desktop amd64 cd ..
<Sweetshark> xnox, seb128: ahh, I have an idea what happened ... although .... hmmm ...
<xnox> Sweetshark: zfs or btrfs used by any chance?
<xnox> that's the two conditions when it would do that....
<xnox> Sweetshark: or did you "accidently" use the upgrade option?
<Sweetshark> xnox, seb128: I used the 13.04 daily and it failed with 'general mount error', before it did even show a desktop. OTOH it shouldnt have touched the disc at that point?
<jbicha> pitti's not still here, is he?
<xnox> Sweetshark: i can see that message as well, did not troubleshoot yet, but it does bring up the installer after showing that warning.
<jbicha> totem's not recognizing that python-gobject-dev is installed http://paste.ubuntu.com/1395386/ http://git.gnome.org/browse/totem/tree/configure.in?h=gnome-3-6
<Sweetshark> xnox: so insert 13.04 daily, fail before seeing any desktop, insert 12.10 final, click through ..
<xnox> Sweetshark: from the installed system can you do `ubuntu-bug ubiquity` that will upload the logs for me to inspect =)
<cyphermox> achiang: just prepare your debdiff with the version being 1.2, I think the rest I can fix with how I build the package after
<cyphermox> seb128: what's the procedure to supersede the appmenu-gtk you sponsored earlier ? :)
<cyphermox> (for precise sru)
<Sweetshark> xnox: do you need the debug log (which includes the password)?
<seb128> cyphermox, talk to slangasek but we already jointed several updates so I think it's "do an update on top of the current one and wait a week"
<cyphermox> seb128: right, so that's what I thought
<xnox> Sweetshark: which has no passwords unless booted with debug-ubiquity.
<seb128> just put it in the queue
<xnox> Sweetshark: not really =)
<seb128> it will stay there until the current one goes to updates
<xnox> Sweetshark: we have no way to tell if the debug has or has not the passwords, hence the warning.
 * xnox should fix that
<cyphermox> would mostly be a matter or taking that debdiff and uploading by building as bzr bd -- -V$version-in-release)
<seb128> talk to slangasek if you want that extra fix included in the same run
<cyphermox> ok
<seb128> otherwise take the current queued update, applied you diff, debuild -S and upload
<seb128> it will just take a week until it's reviewed
<seb128> well, if you are lucky
<Sweetshark> xnox: ok, so you dont need the log, thus Ill click 'no' to not include the log.
<seb128> the queue backlog is rather 3 weeks
<cyphermox> seb128: yeah ;)
<cyphermox> achiang: ok to wait ~1 week or is this rush and a Canonical priority? ;)
<achiang> cyphermox: no rush, except my own personal one. ;)
<Sweetshark> .oO(having a password longer than a fscking windoze activation key sucks when reporting bugs from a VM)
<achiang> sick of nm-applet going out to lunch! :)
<cyphermox> ok ;)
<cyphermox> so we'll wait after this batch of updates gets through to -updates. it shouldn't take too long to get verified
<achiang> cyphermox: works for me
 * cyphermox takes this opportunity to travel back home while it's not yet a bad storm outside
<cyphermox> back later.
<cyphermox> seb128: is the Notes backport planned to hit quantal too?
<jbicha> maybe the pygobject problem is related to it being multiarched today?
<notgary> I'm trying to find out who MCR1 is. I'd never met them before the paper cuts meeting last week, and i'd like to get in touch with them regarding their work on the paper cuts project. Could someone please point me towards their Launchpad profile? My internet stalking skills seem to be failing me tonight :P
<Sweetshark> xnox: bug 1084249 -- note that I didnt exactly took care on reproducability during install ....
<xnox> Sweetshark: cannot see that bug. Assign it to me?
<Sweetshark> xnox: you are?
<Sweetshark> xnox: subscribing you in addition, does it help?
<xnox> Sweetshark: it did =)
<xnox> Sweetshark: this is very strange....
<jbicha> notgary: https://launchpad.net/~mc-return
<notgary> jbicha: Excellent! Thanks a lot :)
 * Sweetshark wondered why his machine had some latency. turns out the jenkins on the host started a (-j32) libreoffice build while the VM had 24GB and 32cores alloced, I guess that explains it.
<qengho> Sweetshark: "some latency"? Ow.
<Sweetshark> qengho: well, I had to restart mplayer once as the stream was choking. Although that might just have been suboptimal trafficshaping with upgrading/downloading to raring from the VM.
<Sweetshark> qengho: chucking along nicely at load average ~ 60
<qengho> I'm envious.
<Sweetshark> qengho: doing a libreoffice build from scratch in 18 minutes is nice. in 3-4 with a warm ccache is even nicer. (both in tmpfs)
<Sweetshark> qengho: 24 minutes (not in tmpfs), while having a 24GB RAM VM upgrading to raring in the background.
<xnox> Sweetshark: how long does a qemu-armhf build take?
<Sweetshark> xnox: havent tried yet.
<Sweetshark> xnox: I can report back in day or so ... gotta run now.
<xnox> ack
<jbicha> desrt: I'm thinking about having the GNOME Remix use Software Center instead of gpk
<xnox> \0/
<kenvandine> RAOF_, ping
<kenvandine> RAOF_, when you get a chance, can you please look at the gwibber SRU for precise?  it's been waiting in unapproved since october
<kenvandine> RAOF_, yesterday i looked for it in the queue and didn't see it, so i uploaded it again... then i found it :)
<kenvandine> so it is there twice
<mlankhorst> haha
<soind> xist side-by-side?
<soind> I was logging in to ask if the longterm plan is for Ubuntu to do away with the global menu in favor of HUD, or if they will exist side-by-side?
<soind> I personally would like the option of using both.
<soind> I was logging in to ask if the longterm plan is for Ubuntu to do away with the global menu in favor of HUD, or if they will exist side-by-side?
<desrt> jbicha: that makes senes
<Sweetshark> whats the canonical way to make a qemu-armhf build now? I find lots of docs that are outdated and tried qemu-debootstrap --arch armhf quantal eapi-chroot, which fails by not being able to download procps and python3
<jbicha> Sweetshark: isn
<jbicha> Sweetshark: isn't the "Canonical" way to use the pandaboard they give away to developers?
<Sweetshark> jbicha: 22:44 < xnox> Sweetshark: how long does a qemu-armhf build take?
<jbicha> I wish I knew how to set up my sbuild to do armhf builds
<xnox> Sweetshark: mk-sbuild --arch armhf raring
<Sweetshark> jbicha: which is a valid question when you have a 32GB RAM, 32 core amd64 machine and do libreoffice builds regularly ...
<xnox> Sweetshark: sbuild -A -d raring --host armhf --build armhf
<xnox> path_to.dsc
<xnox> jbicha: ^^^^^
<xnox> Sweetshark: jbicha: one can also use pbuilder-dist --arch armhf, but that is slower than sbuild
<Sweetshark> xnox: thanks. someone who knows about the stuff should go feral on the wiki and kill all the obsolete crap like rootstock, qemu-debootstrap, etc. ...
<xnox> Sweetshark: ack will point it out.
<xnox> Sweetshark: I presume google will find the rootstock & qemu-deboostrap references for me right?!
 * xnox never heard of above mentioned pieces of software
<jbicha> xnox: oh, that's easier than the way I was setting up sbuild: http://wiki.debian.org/sbuild thanks :)
<xnox> jbicha: yeah, mk-sbuild rocks compared with "typical" way of setting it up.
<xnox> jbicha: and it's available on debian, and it works with ubuntu&debian out of the box, and it supports native, qemu-native and cross compilation.
<Sweetshark> xnox: well, google found them for me: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM/RootfsFromScratch/QemuDebootstrap, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM/RootfsFromScratch, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM/RootStock where still high hits for me on a "ubuntu qemu arm" search
<xnox> along with --eatmydata and --vg myexternalvolumegroup
<xnox> Sweetshark: *shrug* thanks.
<Sweetshark> xnox: the are marked deprecated, but google doesnt seem to bother.
<xnox> Sweetshark: I'll write something up and re-direct people.
<Sweetshark> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM also still points there.
#ubuntu-desktop 2012-11-29
<achiang> cyphermox: still about?
<achiang> jbicha: luckily for you, we just created a juju charm for you
<achiang> also, i like pbuild-scripts from mterry
<achiang> pcreate -a armhf -d raring raring
<jbicha> achiang: thanks but I don't have a cloud yet
<cyphermox> achiang: yeah, still around
<achiang> cyphermox: ok, chasing something odd, and it doesn't make sense to me, but will have a better question in about 5 minutes :)
<achiang> cyphermox: nevermind, i answered my own question. :)
<jbicha> boy the armhf emulated build is slow
<xnox> achiang: i want to kill pbuil-scripts by merging a couple of it's features into ubuntu-dev-tools: specifically into pbuilder-dist.
<xnox> achiang: please use pbuilder-dist raring create --arch armhf instead ;-)
<achiang> xnox: as long as it stays as user-friendly as it is now. :)
<achiang> xnox: pcreate, pget, and pbuild are *awesome*
<xnox> achiang: we don't have pget yet in pbuilder-dist, but the rest are there.
<xnox> achiang: have you seen pull-lp-source or pull-debian-source?
<achiang> not yet
<xnox> achiang: they pull by package name (defaults to latest release) or you can specify a version or a release
<xnox> achiang: e.g. $ pull-lp-source dpkg
<xnox> or $ pull-lp-source dpkg lucid-security
<xnox> or $ pull-lp-source dpkg 1.16.9ubuntu1
<xnox> without needing to chroot into a tarball.
<achiang> xnox: one tiny little papercut that pget fixes for me is that it uses some conventions to keep my source directories nice and neat
<achiang> xnox: for instance, if i have ~/Projects/raring, i can `cd ~/Projects/raring ; pget dpkg`
<achiang> and it will automatically: `mkdir -p ~/Projects/raring/dpkg ; cd dpkg ; <download source>`
<xnox> jbicha: yeah it is slow, that's why we are working on cross-compile option instead but not many packages support that yet.
<xnox> achiang: interesting, but that's not how I work =)
<xnox> achiang: I have inverse: ~/Projects/dpkg/ and in there I have raring, sid, upstream
<xnox> achiang: and build-dir as well
<achiang> xnox: everything related to dpkg goes into that directory. the most common operation is to just download whatever package is in that release of ubuntu. but it's also a handy place to keep bzr branches, etc.
<achiang> xnox: interesting. :)
<xnox> achiang: for me, it's because if i work on a package, I will tend to work on it for a few cycles back & forwards.
<achiang> xnox: i guess i often work on packages that might not exist in upstream ubuntu (internal canonical stuff)
<achiang> and pget lets you specify your own sources.list inside the chroot
<achiang> and we have internal canonical repos that we specify. so then, pget <package> just works
<xnox> achiang: I have a dirty little ~/Projects/rebuilds/, where i start a "temp" project, e.g. python3.3 and it's a right GBs big mess of source packages which is now purged, cause python3.3 transition is done.
<xnox> achiang: yes, custom sources is the feature that pget has and pull-source doesn't.
<xnox> it's on my list to steal =)
<achiang> xnox: just make sure it's easy for us (and our customers, who we have to train in how to get sources) to use
<achiang> (we have written documentation around pget and friends)
<achiang> our use case optimizes for dead simple usage
<xnox> achiang: pbuilder-dist is friendly although it is currently not "married" with pull-sources.
<achiang> xnox: here's what i wrote up a while ago (although i guess spamaps pointed out a bug that i haven't fixed yet) - http://askubuntu.com/questions/53014/why-use-sbuild-over-pbuilder/199184#199184
<xnox> achiang: lol. I wanted to say "oh, I'm not down with the kids to talk about stuff like this on askubuntu....." only to notice I actually also replied on that question.
<jbicha> we should get sbuild documented in the Ubuntu packaging guide
<achiang> xnox: well, it's more like that answer documents our use cases that our customers have
<xnox> achiang: pbuild-scripts tries to assume a particular directory, which is good and bad.
<xnox> jbicha: ack.
<TheMuso> IMO once an sbuild user, always an sbuild user.
 * achiang tried it and it was so damn slow
<achiang> downloads the .deb files every time (at least in my config)
<TheMuso> I am sure there is a way you could set it up to use a local shared directory for cache.
<TheMuso> But since I use a local mirror...
<TheMuso> And since I also use a tmpfs overlay...
<TheMuso> Chroot setup doesn't take that long.
<robert_ancell> RAOF, do you know which version of X has -seat?
<RAOF> robert_ancell: Sorry, no.
<robert_ancell> RAOF, do you know if X supports it? It appears not to from the command line in the raring version and I'm trying to find a bug reference
<robert_ancell> Is it still a proposal?
<RAOF> I don't know, sorry.
<robert_ancell> RAOF, ah, 1.12 aparently
<pitti> Good morning
<pitti> jbicha: hi!
<pitti> jbicha: yeah, there's something wrong with the -dev, it's on my radar
<didrocks> good morning
<pitti> bonjour didrocks
<didrocks> guten morgen pitti
 * BigWhale opens one eye.
<pitti> BigWhale: plus de cafÃ© pour l'autre? :)
<BigWhale> I could google translate this... I do understand 'cafÃ©'. I don't drink coffee, don't require it, but I went to sleep at 3:30am and well, 3.5 hours is a little low even for me :))
<BigWhale> It's a crappy week when someone dugs up a patent from 1997, that now belongs to Oracle, which, in a nutshell, describes the product you're working on. :>
<BigWhale> digs up
<pitti> 'more coffee for the other one' (eye)
<BigWhale> pitti, oooh... :)
<BigWhale> that would probably burn :>
<pitti> didrocks: c'est l'heure pour la glace!
<pitti> didrocks: il neige!
<didrocks> pitti: ahah! vraiment? ;)
<didrocks> pitti: c'est l'heure de mettre un manteau!
<pitti> oui, et un capuchon
<pitti> didrocks: in German, the "ice" for eating and that on the street is the same word
<pitti> didrocks: so "glace" is not right for the stuff you break your neck on when slipping?
<didrocks> pitti: no no, it's the same in French :)
 * sarnold quickly looks around for another language where ice != ice cream, we're outnumbered!
<didrocks> so it's all right, and you can happily risk your neck outside knowing that it's called "glace" :)
<didrocks> heh ;)
<pitti> sarnold: Russian
<pitti> sarnold: Ð»ÐµÐ´ vs.
<pitti> Ð¼Ð¾ÑÐ¾Ð¶ÐµÐ½Ð¾Ðµ
<sarnold> pitti: woo :) thanks
<didrocks> klingon? :p
<pitti> also, Spanish I think?
<pitti> didrocks: les klingons ne mangent pas du glace!
<didrocks> pitti: Ã§a doit Ãªtre triste alors ;)
<pitti> ils mangent le viande de l'adversaire :)
<pitti> (well, they don't really, but I guess they'd rather do that than indulging ice cream)
<pitti> although I know one who liked ice cold plum juice
<jibel> didrocks, bonjour
<sarnold> pitti: hahaha
<didrocks> salut jibel, Ã§a va?
<jibel> didrocks, Ã§a va. indicators, misc, oif and webapps are red
<didrocks> jibel: yeah, I'm seeing that, there are two issues
<didrocks> jibel: lp.distributions['ubuntu'] doesn't work anymore it seems on magners
<didrocks> so, kind of an issue :p
<didrocks> the other are more in the build system issue (when build-deps are part of the same set, but not built)
<jibel> didrocks, huh? looking
<didrocks> I'm looking at #2
<didrocks> if you can look at #1, I tried lp-shell locally and it's working
<didrocks> it wasn't a launchpad hickup, because I relaunched this morning and still the same behavior
 * didrocks wonders why /usr/lib/pbuilder/pbuilder-satisfydepends --force-version --continue-fail doesn't work
<jibel> didrocks, lp.distributions['ubuntu'] works. looking harder
<didrocks> jibel: I tried it at 7am, and it was still failing :/
<pitti> ah, thanks autopkgtest for telling me my oversight in pygobject packaging
<chrisccoulson> good morning everyone
<chrisccoulson> sigh, my SSD ran out of space last night when doing a build :(
<pitti> I keep being amazed about how much our stupidly simple "compile&link" tests tell us
<didrocks> anyone ever tried pbuilder-statisfydepends with a --force-version?
<didrocks> hey chrisccoulson
<sarnold> chrisccoulson: owww
<pitti> hey chrisccoulson; argh
<chrisccoulson> hi didrocks, sarnold, pitti
<chrisccoulson> TEST-UNEXPECTED-PASS | /usr/lib/thunderbird-trunk-testsuite/xpcshell/tests/dom/tests/unit/test_geolocation_provider.js | test failed (with xpcshell return code: 0), see following log:
<chrisccoulson> hah!
<seb128> hey desktopers
<pitti> bonjour seb128, Ã§a va?
<seb128> lut pitti, oui, et toi ?
<pitti> seb128: Ã§a va bien; il neige!
<seb128> oh, c'est prÃ©vu pour ce w.e ici
<pitti> c'est la deuxiÃ¨me temps
<mvo> mlankhorst: good news (or bad new) http://paste.ubuntu.com/1396499/ is what I get with ppa:mlankhorst/ppa and ppa:ubuntu-wine/ppa when doing apt-get install xserver-xorg-lts-quantal,
<Laney> hey
<Laney> yeah I was planning to disable grilo at least for the first upload
<jibel> Sweetshark, ping
<Sweetshark> jibel: pong
<MCR1> notgary: Hi :) Are you around ?
<chrisccoulson> nice, my bottle of scotch arrived :)
<mlankhorst> mvo: yeah I had that one too, could you see if wine-1.5 could be kept?
<mlankhorst> oh you're not installing the recommends..
<mvo> mlankhorst: no failure if i run with --install-recommends here, but let me check why wine is removed
<mlankhorst> mvo: yeah what debug info do you want? So I can check why it removes it on my system..
<mlankhorst> erm not removes it, just fails in resolve
<mlankhorst> it removes it because libgl1-mesa-(glx/dri) for i386 is removed, and installed libgl1-mesa-(dri,glx)-lts-quantal as alternative
<mlankhorst> but it doesn't check if it needs to be installed for i386
<Laney> slomo: hey, do you know of any moves to get camerabin to go from -bad to -good?
<Laney> I'm just trying to work out the plugin moves that we need to do in Ubuntu and where they stand with upstream
<slomo> Laney: no, not really... needs someone to actually spend time on it and get it done
<Laney> OK that was kind of the sense I got from the wiki page
<Laney> the others are scaletempo rtpmux rtpvp8 which AFAICS are all moving in 1.2 anyway
<Laney> hmm
<Laney> pitti: have you noticed that pygobject-3.0.pc is now installed into /usr/lib/i386-linux-gnu/pkgconfig/?
<Laney> (that's from an arch:all package)
<pitti> Laney: yes, fix already committed to svn
<pitti> Laney: I didn't see that on a local build of course, but autopkgtest yelled at me
<Laney> ah ok
<Laney> well it makes totem ftbfs
<Laney> yay for tests
<pitti> I'm currently fixing a ton of issues in pygobject; will do another release/upload today
<pitti> sorry about that one
<Laney> merci
<Laney> I saw there was a packaging rewrite/cleanup - these things happen :)
<pitti> this was due to moving to dh compat 9
<pitti> this defaults to multiarch paths, and I missed that the package was arch:all
<zzecool> seb128:  hey buddy are you here ?
<zzecool> I wonder if anyone knows why deamons cant access DBUS in ubuntu   to use let say libnotify , even if i run  the deamon as the same user that im login in there is no luck
<seb128> zzecool, hey
<zzecool> =)
<seb128> zzecool, what do you mean? libnotify only use dbus no?
<zzecool> hmm look im not a dev so i may make this complicated
<zzecool> take a look my post here  : http://sickbeard.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5865
<zzecool> you will understand
<zzecool> for some strange reason the deamon cant access the os.environ['DISPLAY']  and DBUS   even tho it is starting as 'zzecool' and not as root
<seb128> zzecool, try #ubuntu for user questions (that's one)
<seb128> it's not strange
<zzecool> ohh
<seb128> you run it from a place which doesn't have those
<seb128> the display,bus,etc are set up by the session
<zzecool> ohh i see
<seb128> so they are only available for processes run into the session
<zzecool> so i can export them manually on the init.d script right?
<seb128> no
<seb128> the dbus variable is not static
<seb128> it will change
<zzecool> i see what you mean
<seb128> dunno what you are trying to do but an init script seems the wrong solution
<zzecool> so its not possible for a deamon to access tehm ?
<zzecool> them*
<seb128> them being?
<zzecool> the env  DISPLAY and DBUS_SESSION_BUS_ADDRESS
<zzecool> i need those two for the deamon to use libnotify
<seb128> I'm not sure that what you are trying to do works
<seb128> the notification daemon is an user session process
<seb128> you would probably need to connect it to the system bus and make it listen for messages there then you could broadcast on the system bus
<zzecool> seb128:  heh i dont have any idea rly
<zzecool> im just trying to setup sickbeard if you knows what sickbeard is
<zzecool> its can access libnotify just fine if i run it form the desktop
<zzecool> but fails when start it as a deamon  with init script
<zzecool> know*
<seb128> dunno what this software is, but I told you why
<zzecool> yes
<seb128> the notification system is a per-user service
<seb128> it can't really work from an init script
<zzecool> i see
<zzecool> i thought that it will work because the i was running the init script as the same user that im loggin in
<seb128> they are not in the same context
<zzecool> what do you mean about context
<zzecool> ?
<seb128> the environment of the session is specific to the user session
<seb128> you could run 3 sessions with your user
<seb128> how would the init script determine which one to pick?
<seb128> it needs the context/environment that is set in the session
<zzecool> i see
<zzecool> so let say in a headless enviroment it isnt possible to access the notification system because you dont enter a user session ?
<zzecool> is this right or im out of space?
<zzecool> seb128: nevermind you help me a lot all ready =)
<zzecool> ill steady a bit more
<zzecool> study* omg my english
<chrisccoulson> hmmmm, if metacity drops out of main, can i not depend on it for running tests?
<Laney> do you need it specifically?
<chrisccoulson> some of the firefox tests need a window manager to work correctly, and i can't imagine compiz will work that well inside Xvfb
<Laney> I think the plan was for twm
<Laney> but I also don't know if autopkgtests must respect the ogre model
 * Laney goes away to lunch
<chrisccoulson> what would pull twm in to main?
<chrisccoulson> basically, if i don't have a window manager, i can't do full screen tests :)
<pitti> Laney: no, autopkgtest test dependencies can be from any component
<chrisccoulson> pitti, cool, thanks!
<pitti> maybe they should respect ogre, but right now they don't
<pitti> chrisccoulson: so it's ok for autopkgtests, but not for build-time tests (as these are build deps)
<chrisccoulson> that's ok then :)
<chrisccoulson> i'll carry on using metacity for now
<chrisccoulson> w00t http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mozillateam/thunderbird/thunderbird-trunk.head/revision/750
<kenvandine> chrisccoulson, awesome
<didrocks> hey kenvandine ;)
<kenvandine> hey didrocks
<pitti> hey kenvandine
<kenvandine> hey pitti
<zzecool> seb128:  what if i run  from rc.local the following : $ dbus-launch --sh-syntax    grep DBUS_SESSION_BUS_ADDRESS > /tmp/dbus-session-bus-address
<zzecool> and  export `cat /tmp/dbus-session-bus-address` in my init script ?
<xclaesse> is it possible to make unity dash stop showing files/music search results?
<xclaesse> and give only apps launchers
<xclaesse> seb128, ^
<xclaesse> I guess removing unity-lens-files and friends should do that...
<seb128> xclaesse, uninstall the files and music lenses?
<seb128> xclaesse, what's the issue with those though?
<didrocks> they are all recommends, so should be fine :)
<seb128> zzecool, you can probably do some workaroundish hacks like that if you really want to do something
<zzecool> :)
<seb128> zzecool, but please move to #ubuntu to discuss those workarounds, that's user questions
<zzecool> yeah allright
<zzecool> thanks
<seb128> yw
<xclaesse> seb128, maybe I don't want people to see the cats pictures I watched :P
<xclaesse> or videos
<seb128> xclaesse, you can go system settings -> privacy
<seb128> xclaesse, and block directories or class of files
<seb128> like images or videos
<seb128> xclaesse, or clear the history or block any logging at all
<xclaesse> seb128, it uses zeighgest to know the recent files?
<seb128> yes
<seb128> ok, I'm out for some exercice, be back in ~1h
<xclaesse> thanks :)
<seb128> xclaesse, but the privacy panel should let you block what you want, including any logging
<zzecool> xclaesse: what wrong with the little pussycats ?
<zzecool> ;p
<zzecool> xclaesse: check in the software center the "activity journal" it use the zeitgeist db to visualize your activity  "or spy what your brother did when you were away" ;p
<xclaesse> voilÃ , with only unity-lens-applications remaining, it's much nicer :)
<xclaesse> zzecool, yep, disabled that too :)
<zzecool> ;p
<xclaesse> is it intentional that unity does not set my telepathy accounts only at login?
<Laney> jbicha: yo
 * Laney flashes some gang signs
<Laney> how did you build rb without grilo? configure.in hax?
<jbicha> Laney: yeah, I tried to do it in debian/rules but my first attempt didn't work
<Laney> apparently it's a 'required' plugin per the commit which made it error when grilo isn't present
<Laney> but i don't see why
<Laney> anyway, we should just bite the bullet and MIR it
<Laney> how do you feel about doing that? ;-)
<jbicha> but yesterday's pygobject bug isn't fixed yet anyway
<Laney> right
<Laney> I fixed it locally to do testing
<Laney> it'll be uploaded today
<jbicha> I'm a bit busy until the weekend (as far as filing an MIR)
<Laney> well I'll upload without grilo initially, hopefully will get around to filing tomorrow
<jbicha> ok cool
<Laney> right
<Laney> going to upload -good and -bad with plugins moved
<Laney> then some apps ...
<attente> desrt: separators can be shown or hidden at a whim :(
<desrt> attente: including two beside each other?
<attente> desrt: yes, but i've never accounted for this case
<attente> the code is going to get very messy...
<seb128> xclaesse, you mean "online"? e.g you would like to be automatically im connected at login?
<seb128> xclaesse, check with kenvandine or larsu or mpt ... I guess that should be a setting somewhere
<xclaesse> seb128, yep online
<xclaesse> it should restore the presence from last session
<xclaesse> like gnome-shell does
<seb128> I'm not convinced about that
<seb128> some people like to always be online, so other don't
<kenvandine> we should see what mpt thinks
<seb128> e.g I tend to start my im after work and I don't stop it before stopped the computer, but that doesn't mean I want to be online next morning
<mpt> xclaesse, seb128: This issue is currently confused by bug 877642 and bug 1077252
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 877642 in indicator-messages (Ubuntu) "Status on messaging indicator is greyed out if Empathy is added to the "Startup Applications" list" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/877642
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1077252 in indicator-messages (Ubuntu) "Empathy shows up as running even though it is stopped" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1077252
<seb128> mpt, well, even without those issues we would still have some users who don't want to go through the manual work to have to connect
<mpt> xclaesse, seb128: ...but I think whether you're online from login, as far as Telepathy is concerned, is an option that belongs in Empathy's preferences.
<mpt> seb128, right.
<seb128> right, that's what I was thinking as well
<mpt> cool :-)
<seb128> xclaesse, that's a job for you :p
<xclaesse> hm
<xclaesse> mpt, I consider it to be a desktop option tbh
<xclaesse> it is not empathy itself setting presence at startup, since empathy is not running at all
<mpt> xclaesse, logically, considering Telepathy as separate from Empathy, it is. But I think most people won't understand that they're separate, even though you stay online after closing Empathy.
<seb128> xclaesse, we also don't have other "im preferences" ui than empathy's one
<mpt> xclaesse, and even if people did understand they were separate things, Empathy's preferences would still be the most obvious place to find it
<xclaesse> mpt, I would actually put it in UOA settings panel somehow
<mpt> xclaesse, this is analogous to the setting for default Web browser. Logically it belongs in System Settings somewhere, but practically, all Web browsers put it in their own settings UI, because it's much easier to find there.
<Sweetshark> seb128: I just uploaded a libmspub_0.0.3-1~ubuntu1.dsc to chinstrap for sponsoring (bug 1079659), it also testbuilds in a private ppa. If that one completes, I would be happy about sponsoring
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1079659 in Ubuntu "[needs-packaging] please sync a libmspub version > 0.0.3 to raring as it is needed for libreoffice 4.0" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1079659
<mpt> pitti, hi. What do you think of having all apport package bugs affect the Apport project too, so that they show up on <https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-error-tracker> for next week?
 * Laney uploads webkit
<Laney> scary
<pitti> mpt: hm, there's hundreds of them, this would seem like useless duplication to me?
<pitti> mpt: having some selected ones seems fine, of course
<mpt> pitti, it's just that if didrocks could do it with a script it would be quicker than choosing the selected ones
<mpt> I agree it's duplication, but I don't see how else to get a single list of error-tracker-related bugs
<pitti> but we need to select some anyway?
<pitti> and a lot of the package bugs are old, incomplete, duplicates, etc. -- it woudl need a good two weeks of triaging
 * pitti prefers manageable lists over complete, but useless swamps
<mpt> pitti, if you want a managable list, do an advanced search to exclude the "New" status :-)
<mpt> pitti, otherwise "filed against the package" would effectively become an extra hidden "unconfirmed" state
<pitti> well, duplicating the open tasks doesn't magically triage them
<mpt> sure
<pitti> I know apport's package bugs are a mess; sorry
 * pitti just can't keep up with it
<pitti> so I usually pick out bugs by assignment/subscription
<mpt> pitti, no need to apologize, your time is better spent fixing things you already know are important. I'm just trying to make triage easier for other people to do.
<bcurtiswx> wow, raring upgrade went quite well. :)
<Laney> firefox in DoSing buildds shocker :P
<Sweetshark> seb128: I just uploaded a libcmis 0.3.0-1~ubuntu1 to chinstrap for sponsoring (bug 1079653), it also testbuilds in a private ppa. I would be happy about sponsoring, if that finishes.
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1079653 in libcmis (Ubuntu) "please sync a libcmis version > 0.3.0 to raring as it is needed for libreoffice 4.0" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1079653
<seb128> Sweetshark, ok
<Sweetshark> seb128: libmspub completed successfully: https://launchpad.net/~bjoern-michaelsen/+archive/libreoffice-nattytest2/+sourcepub/2813802/+listing-archive-extra
<seb128> Sweetshark, ok, so I will look at this one and sponsor it
<Sweetshark> seb128: could you also sync http://packages.debian.org/source/experimental/mdds to raring, please?
<Sweetshark> seb128: thats bug 1079665
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1079665 in mdds (Ubuntu) "please sync a mdds version > 0.6.0 to raring as it is needed for libreoffice 4.0" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1079665
<seb128> Sweetshark, ok
<Sweetshark> seb128: libcmis finished too: https://launchpad.net/~bjoern-michaelsen/+archive/libreoffice-nattytest2/+build/4022345
<Laney> didrocks: seb128: Fancy promoting farstream-0.2? ;-)
<seb128> Laney, didrocks: doing it
<seb128> Sweetshark, mdds synced
<didrocks> thanks seb128 ;)
<Laney> also clutter-gst-2.0 for totem
<Laney> cheers
<Laney> uploading stuff but the buildds are lagging a bit and there is some uninstallability
<Sweetshark> seb128: thanks, just saw it.
<Laney> might not get builds until tomorrow
<seb128> Laney, both promoted
<Laney> awesome, cheers to you
<jbicha> firefox & webkit building :)
<Sweetshark> jbicha: dont steal my precioussss buildds, I have a libreoffice upload in the pipe ...
<jbicha> Sweetshark: it wasn't me :)
<Sweetshark> jbicha: thats what they all say!
<seb128> Sweetshark, we stopped using -proposed
<seb128> Sweetshark, the archive does that for you
<seb128> Sweetshark, e.g you use "raring" and it goes to proposed anyway
<chrisccoulson> oh, nice
<Sweetshark> seb128: but to make things more confusing for a quantal SRU, I still have to go to proposed? or not.
<chrisccoulson> i own all the amd64 builders, and all but one of the i386 builders ;)
<Sweetshark> chrisccoulson: YOOOU!
<seb128> Sweetshark, yes, what I said is only for unstable series
<micahg> chrisccoulson: you even own PowerPC :)
<chrisccoulson> hah, i don't care so much about owning powerpc ;)
<Sweetshark> seb128: but it doesnt hurt to have -proposed there, right?
<seb128> Sweetshark, not sure, I removed it from libmspub
<chrisccoulson> Sweetshark, it's a waste of bandwidth when you upload ;)
<seb128> Sweetshark, libmspub uploaded
 * Sweetshark will not bother with uploads, I will stick with building locally (is faster anyway on 32GB RAM, 32 core).
<Sweetshark> seb128: awesome, thanks
<Sweetshark> seb128: mdds done, mspub done. how is libcmis?
<seb128> Sweetshark, I'm on it, I've only 2 hands, can't handle 3 sources at the same time ;-)
<Sweetshark> seb128: I got more to come ;) -- but let me dput this libreoffice-3.6.4rc3 for quantal in the meantime ...
<seb128> Sweetshark, uploaded
<Sweetshark> seb128: nice
 * jbicha gives up hope of getting anything built today
 * Sweetshark is so happy that libreoffice 4 will drop two tarballs ...
 * micahg might have another webkit upload later as well :)
 * Laney sniggers
<Sweetshark> libreoffice uploaded.
<Laney> ah, ppc is back up to 14 hours
<didrocks> Laney: it won't be fun otherwise :)
<Laney> I was going to worry about blocking these gstreamer things from migrating for a bit
<Laney> that takes care of it for me ;-)
<seb128> Laney, Colin dropped the "need to be built on ppc" requirement to copy to raring to workaround the lack of builder issue
<Laney> he reverted it again
<seb128> oh, ok
<Laney> broke some other stuff
<seb128> :-(
<didrocks> seb128: follow the latest latest news! :)
<seb128> didrocks, I'm soooo outdated ;-)
<didrocks> sure, at least by an hour! ;)
<Laney> #ubuntu-release is where all the real information is spread
<didrocks> stone age
 * xnox thinks I missed all the drama
<Sweetshark> hmm, is there some simple way to copy a package from -proposed to a ppa?
<seb128> Laney, just read that
<chrisccoulson> i do wish we didn't block migration on powerpc
<seb128> chrisccoulson, yeah, me too :p
<chrisccoulson> i really don't care that much about it ;)
<seb128> we didn't for a day
<chrisccoulson> heh :)
<Laney> heh
<seb128> well, I raised the powerpc issue with Jason yesterday as well
<seb128> the powerpc supported can say want they want it bites us every cycle at some point
<chrisccoulson> powerpc will be a frequent blocker for firefox migrations, and i don't want to be spending my time fixing powerpc-specific bugs :)
<jbicha> Sweetshark: backportpackage?
<Laney> we should get some of BenC's nice hardware for buildds :-)
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: well, TBH, it's more about the build time for me. It's rare I have an issue only on powerpc and not on armhf for instance
<micahg> Sweetshark: copy-package in lp:ubuntu-archive-tools
<micahg> chrisccoulson: please throw all PPC issues you don't want to chase to BenC as he offered to help with those
<micahg> Sweetshark: assuming it's going to the same release
<chrisccoulson> webrtc doesn't build on powerpc, so i just switched it off for now. but if disabling core features on powerpc becomes the norm, we really should stop calling what we ship on powerpc "firefox" ;)
<chrisccoulson> (because it isn't. it's firefox with bits that don't work on powerpc disabled)
<micahg> chrisccoulson: right, so he might be willing to fix those build issues
<Sweetshark> micahg: yes, same release
<micahg> Sweetshark: the only thing you have to watch is that it does have a binary dep on something only in -proposed
<micahg> s/does/doesn't/
<Sweetshark> seb128: aaand please look at liblangtag too (bug 1079656), waiting on chinstrap, building on https://launchpad.net/~bjoern-michaelsen/+archive/libreoffice-nattytest2
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1079656 in Ubuntu "[needs-packaging] please sync a liblangtag version > 0.4.0 to raring as it is needed for libreoffice 4.0" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1079656
<seb128> Sweetshark, ok
<Sweetshark> micahg: thanks for the hint, but it should be save. Its a boost SRU adding one patch ...
<seb128> Sweetshark, liblangtag is not good, debian/copyright states:
<seb128> Files: *
<seb128> Copyright: Copyright (C) 2011-2012 Akira TAGOH
<seb128> License: GPL-2+
<seb128> Sweetshark, but the license used is LGPL
<Sweetshark> meh, backportpackage doesnt help me as it gives me a lower version number and I (obviously) have a hard dep on the fixed version in -proposed.
<Sweetshark> seb128: whopsie. Ok, I will check back with _rene_. Likely he doesnt want to have wrongly tagged stuff in debian too ;)
<seb128> Sweetshark, thanks
<jbicha> Sweetshark: couldn't you just change the dependency so that it's backportable? I believe adding a ~ to the end of the version number is enough
<Sweetshark> jbicha: ya, but the LO version is already uploaded and depwaiting.
<micahg> Sweetshark: boost in quantal?  it was pushed to -updates this mornin
<Sweetshark> I could just enable -proposed on the ppa.
<Sweetshark> micahg: yikes, cool.
<Sweetshark> jep, lo builds.
<Sweetshark> hmmm, the amd64 build is running on 'chindi06 (arm ppa builder)'. I hope it is just a bit confused about its profession. crosscompiling libreoffice for amd64 on arm would be .... interesting.
<Laney> enough breaking of the archive for now
<Laney> bonne nuit
<didrocks> bonne nuit Laney :)
<seb128> Laney, night!
<Sweetshark> seb128: Im inclined to close bug 1064962 on all the other (non-LO) projects as invalid or wontfix. People are mixing in various appindicator things in this that are likely unrelated. Id finish that with a comment asking for specific error behaviour on a new bug. Your opinion?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1064962 in indicator-appmenu (Ubuntu Quantal) "[SRU] Global menubar items do not work when opening a document directly from nautilus with no LibreOffice instance running" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1064962
 * didrocks waves good evening
<seb128> Sweetshark, seems fine to me, I don't like abuse of old bugs either, if you think the original issue is fixed close the bug and ask people to open new bugs and a new one for each different issue they have
<Sweetshark> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libreoffice/+bug/1064962/comments/166
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1064962 in libreoffice (Ubuntu) "[SRU] Global menubar items do not work when opening a document directly from nautilus with no LibreOffice instance running" [High,Fix committed]
<Sweetshark> seb128: liblangtag_0.4.0-2~ubuntu1_source.changes with fixed copyright on chinstrap and currently building at https://launchpad.net/~bjoern-michaelsen/+archive/libreoffice-nattytest2/+sourcepub/2814064/+listing-archive-extra
<Sweetshark> you should find a diff at the ppa builder soonish
<cyphermox> kenvandine: hey
<cyphermox> kenvandine: could you move telepathy-indicator to ~indicator-applet-developers or something for the autolanding? :)
<Sweetshark> seb128: https://launchpadlibrarian.net/124434586/liblangtag_0.4.0-1~ubuntu1~ppa1_0.4.0-2~ubuntu1~ppa1.diff.gz <- theres the diff
<cyphermox> or do you want to retain reviewing any merge for that branch upstream?
<kenvandine> cyphermox, sure
<kenvandine> cyphermox, done
<bcurtiswx> achiang, is there raring packages being built in the ppa:ubuntu-nexus7 ?
<achiang> bcurtiswx: i don't think so. our plan was to just have everything in upstream, so it would obviate the need for a PPA
<achiang> bcurtiswx: unfortunately, moving to raring has been a little slower than we'd like, due to some issues with nux. we're working those out as we speak
<bcurtiswx> achiang, OK so following the install directions from a raring machine won't work.. i'll go plop on my 12.10 laptop.. would you say wait to put raring on the nexus 7 ?
<seb128> Sweetshark, sponsored
<Sweetshark> seb128: great, thanks
<bcurtiswx> join #ubuntu-nexus
<bcurtiswx> whoops
<bcurtiswx> seeing if one existed, and .. it fdoesn't
<bcurtiswx> achiang, is there a mailing list that will let us know when a new image to flash is available?
<achiang> bcurtiswx: we're working on it, and will use ubuntu-devel when it's ready :)
<achiang> bcurtiswx: we'll have lots of announcements on planet and g+ and everywhere else, i imagine
<bcurtiswx> achiang, ok cool, thx
<bjf> bryce, hi .. i've busted my video again (i did a dist-upgrade and reboot) now neither nvidia nor nv drivers load ('nv': No such file or directory)
<RAOF> bjf: nv not loading is expected; we haven't shipped that for a couple of releases. Is *nouveau* loading?
<bryce>  bjf nv is gone; nouveau is the current FOSS driver for nvidia hardware
<bryce> bjf, if you just want to get the system working and don't care about diagnosing why it failed, I'd suggest purging all nvidia bits and reinstalling
<bryce> er, reinstalling nvidia (via jockey)
<bjf> bryce, let me look at that ... nouveau not in my lsmod list
<bryce> modprobe it?
<bjf> bryce, modprobe tried, but my screen is now trash
<bjf> bryce, it's running
<bjf> bryce, but screen not useable. do i need to restart unity? (am assuming so)
<bryce> yeah, 'sudo service lightdm restart' should do it
<bjf> bryce, that just produced a black screen with a few blue pixels at the bottom
<TheMuso> Is there not still issues with nouveau in the 3.7 kernel? I did a fresh install to quantal and dist-upgrade the other day, and using the NVIDIA chip on my thinkpad, had to install nvidia drivers as it seems that something is broken when one attempts to use 3D of any kind, i.e unity-greeter worked, but both GNOME shell and unity ended up freezing things to the point where I couldn't switch to a VT.
<TheMuso> These issues were with nouveau.
#ubuntu-desktop 2012-11-30
<bjf> this is a precise system which had the lts-quantal installed on it
<bryce> bjf, ahh
<bjf> was working just fine until a reboot .. was using the ppa .. am wondering if something in that ppa hurt me
<bjf> or with tim removing the kernel :-(
<bjf> so now, i'm trying to get back to just plain precise (re-install looking more likely)
<TheMuso> Oh ok.
<bjf> TheMuso, but thanks, that was a good possibility
<bryce> bjf, yeah could be.  there was a recent change to the prop drivers to make them install properly when the q stack is installed (so jockey won't suggest drivers that won't work).  Perhaps those changes messed with your dist upgrade?
<bryce> bjf, it's possible your gpu just got confused; have you tried just rebooting, now that you've purged nvidia off?
<bjf> bryce, no .. let me try that
<bjf> bryce, looking better
<bjf> bryce, i'm golden .. will teach me to try lts-backport on a system i care about.  thanks much
<bryce> bjf, no prob
<robert_ancell> Laney, we are gst 1.0 now?
<TheMuso> Not completely, rhythmbox according to the package metadata still uses gst 0.10.
<TheMuso> Same with totem.
<cyphermox> hey robert_ancell
<robert_ancell> cyphermox, hello
<cyphermox> did you get any progress on the bluetooth indicator?
<robert_ancell> cyphermox, yes, I'm just waiting for the libunity indicator changes before continuing
<cyphermox> cool
<robert_ancell> cyphermox, did you want to work on it?
<cyphermox> I discussed urfkill with cjwatson and slangasek at UDS (sorry for not discussing this with you sooner), I wish we could figure out a way to tie the bluetooth and nm-applet indicators together and make them both properly handle "airplane mode" via urfkill
<cyphermox> that said, it needs a ton more work, so it's just ideas for now
<cyphermox> thoughts?
<robert_ancell> cyphermox, oh that would be nice. The rfkill stuff seemed really hard to use (I wrapped it into a class). You should be able to substitute it for urfkill easily.
<cyphermox> I think so
<cyphermox> urfkill didn't exactly actually start with the init script though, last I tried ;)
<robert_ancell> cyphermox, is my current implementation sufficient, or does urfkill add more than just interfacing with /dev/rfkill?
<jbicha> the nm-applet will need to get rewritten anyway as a better indicator some day
<cyphermox> jbicha: I hear you, but I'm not exactly looking forward to doing this :P
<jbicha> cyphermox: I'm definitely not volunteering for it either :)
<cyphermox> robert_ancell: think of it like upower for rfkill
<robert_ancell> cyphermox, how complex is the nm-applet? Is it mostly just presenting the NM dbus interface to the user?
<cyphermox> robert_ancell: see, I think it possibly is
<robert_ancell> cyphermox, so it has some policies inside it?
<cyphermox> and then the actual dialogs and prompts and list of connections could just use libnm-gtk
<cyphermox> robert_ancell: not much. I think it's mostly just some extra logic specific to handling modems
<robert_ancell> cyphermox, yeah, that's basically what the bluetooth indicator does. I might have a play and see how hard it would be to do the same thing with nm
<cyphermox> robert_ancell: let me know if you play with it.. I was thinking of hacking on such a thing but I have no clue how to start writing an indicator, didn't have time to look into it yet
<cyphermox> I keep hoping very soon I'll have a minute or two to do it
<cyphermox> is there a quickly template or something available? :)
<jbicha> ok, indicator-sync is the newest official indicator and it looks like charles wrote it
<cyphermox> yes
<cyphermox> jbicha: what about it?
<jbicha> I guess I was talking to myself; I was hoping that whatever was the newest would be using the best, easiest way to write indicators
<jbicha> but it's C and I don't have a strong enough background in C
<jbicha> oh, there's example code at http://developer.ubuntu.com/resources/technologies/application-indicators/
<Chucrute301> Hi jbicha
<jbicha> Chucrute301: good morning
<TheMuso> Indicators aren't that hard.
<TheMuso> I wrote one for ubiquity in python.
<cyphermox> jbicha: well, it's a good example (indicator-sync) but I was hoping more in the ways of a template
<jbicha> cyphermox: I guess that other link I posted is the best we've got except looking at existing code
<cyphermox> right
<cyphermox> jbicha: not the same kind of indicator though :)
<jbicha> cyphermox: really?
<cyphermox> indicator-power looks like a great example to play with though, it's a little more concise and similar to what an indicator for network connections would be
<jbicha> I give up then :(
<cyphermox> jbicha: yeah.. the example code on there is using libappindicator
<cyphermox> it's slightly different that the "system" indicators -sync, -power, etc. which use libindicator if i'm not mistaken
<cyphermox> though I think the difference is probably only in what you can do with them, with libappindicator being a bit more restrictive
<TheMuso> Correct.
<TheMuso> System indicators have 2 parts. Their service, and their .so file which is loaded by the panel and loads the service.
<TheMuso> App indicators are dealt with by a special system indicator and its 2 bits.
 * cyphermox goes to sleep on the idea
<BigWhale> Good Morning.
<pitti> Bonjour mes amis
<didrocks> good morning
<RAOF> Whee! Laptop says: Y U Running me in this heat!
<pitti> bonjour didrocks! tu es plus tÃ´t que moi ajourd'hui :)
 * pitti looks outside, sees snow and cold, and wants sun as well
<didrocks> pitti: c'est toi qui est plus tard que moi! je me rÃ©veille toujours Ã  la mÃªme heure Ã  peu prÃ¨s :)
<didrocks> pitti: winter weather! :-)
<didrocks> RAOF: you laptop says "I need weekend" it seems ;)
<RAOF> pitti: I'll ship you some 30â if you like.
<pitti> didrocks: oui, je suis allÃ© dormier tard
<pitti> RAOF: oui, j'aime Ã§a!
<pitti> didrocks: I'm quite fine getting up with my wife at 5:10 during summer, but I just can't in winter; way too little light
<didrocks> pitti: yeah, even 7 in the dark is a little bit hard here :)
<didrocks> RAOF: how is the family btw? Succeeding in getting some sleep now? :)
<RAOF> We've settled down into a wake-every-3-hours-or-so-then-go-back-to-sleep pattern overnight.
<RAOF> At least, when it's not being 24â overnight.
<achiang> don't they have aircon in .au?
<RAOF> Not in Hobart; it's rarely this hot.
<achiang> or does that cause something poisonous to precipitate out of the air?
<RAOF> Heh.
<chrisccoulson> happy friday!
<mlankhorst> seems the more complex patches I do, the less likely I make mistakes..
<mlankhorst> better known as: my 1 liners do the most damage
<Laney> \o/
<seb128> hey desktopers
<seb128> hey Laney, how are you?
<Laney> seb128: great thanks, looking forward to going on holiday! you?
<seb128> Laney, I'm good thanks, looking forward the W.E :p
<seb128> Laney, do you go anywhere during your holidays?
<Laney> yep - to the lake district
<Laney> good walking (or pubs if the weather is too bad [/me hopes the weather is bad])
<seb128> lol
<seb128> Laney, have fun there ;-)
<pitti> hey seb128
<pitti> good morning Laney
<pitti> FYI, pygobject is fixed since yesterday, so please feel free to kick the FTBFS due to that
<Laney> yeah, I uploaded
<Laney> I can't remember what package it was that was FTFBSing
<Laney> . o O ( speaking of that, gstreamer1.0-tools needs promoting - BD of totem )
<seb128> pitti, hey, wie gehts?
<pitti> seb128: gut, danke! fighting with canonistack..
<seb128> pitti, I've been playing a bit with that this week as well ;-)
<Laney> the machines will win, resistance is futile
<seb128> Laney, looking at the promotion
<Laney> ta
<Laney> it's a binary built from gstreamer1.0 which is already in main
<pitti> ATM it seems as reliable as a three year old
<Laney> shouldn't be too onerous
<seb128> Laney, done
<Laney> thanks
<Laney> wish you got mailed about those
<mvo> seb128: good morning, do you happen to know if the default keyring is created on install already and if so, what is creating it?
<seb128> mvo, I don't think it is, it's created the first time an app try to use it
<seb128> mvo, it might be that pam_keyring create it for you if you use password login (e.g not autologin)
<seb128> mvo, hey btw ;-)
<mvo> seb128: cool, thanks
<seb128> mvo, yw
<chrisccoulson> are firefox translations broken for anyone else in raring?
<didrocks> it's ok for me right now, but I didn't upgrade since yesterday evening
<seb128> chrisccoulson, works for me
<chrisccoulson> seb128, yeah, it works for me as well now, but it didn't a few moments ago
<chrisccoulson> fantastic! :/
<seb128> chrisccoulson, but I don't have the version that hit the archive and hour ago yet
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: speaking of long time issue, did you succeed/found/need input for anything for the stalled thunderbird on my session when quitting?
<chrisccoulson> didrocks, did you manage to get a trace with all threads yet?
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: I think I gave it to you few weeks ago
<chrisccoulson> i think i hit it once, the but the trace i got wasn't terribly useful, and i'm wondering whether it was caused by me running it in gdb anyway
<chrisccoulson> didrocks, i think you gave me a trace of the main thread
<didrocks> 2012-11-06 09:08:49didrockschrisccoulson: http://paste.ubuntu.com/1336807/
<didrocks> that one?
<chrisccoulson> didrocks, ah, thanks. sorry, i must have missed that one (or just forgotten) :(
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: no worry ;) keep me posted please!
<seb128> chrisccoulson, thanks for making sure nothing reachs raring until the end of week ;-)
<chrisccoulson> seb128, oh, what did i do?
<seb128> chrisccoulson, the powerpc buildds are lagging by a day which blocks everything to build on raring and to move out of raring-proposed
<seb128> chrisccoulson, I blame it on firefox :p
<chrisccoulson> heh
<chrisccoulson> that sucks
<chrisccoulson> kill it!
<seb128> yeah, I'm trying...
<seb128> I emailed Rick on the topic :p
<chrisccoulson> cool :)
<Laney> I did just do an 11Â¼ hour webkit build on ppc too :-)
<chrisccoulson> Laney, do you run unit tests on the webkit build too?
<seb128> Laney starts sounding like a webkit maintainer to me ;-)
<Laney> didn't we hire one of those? :P
<Laney> I don't think it runs a testsuite during the build
<Laney> that's a package that certainly should get an autopkgtest
<chrisccoulson> i turned off unit tests for firefox on powerpc builds
<chrisccoulson> they cause the builders to die
<chrisccoulson> probably not a good sign ;)
<Laney> I think it's the best buildd that went awol too
 * Laney updates the seeds
<chrisccoulson> http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/31057672.jpg
<xnox> chrisccoulson: LOL =))))
<Laney> haha
<seb128> pitti, did you ever figure out why e.g
<seb128> $ fakeroot dbus-launch gedit
<seb128> ** (gedit:24146): WARNING **: Could not connect to session bus
<seb128> didrocks, ^ btw that's why the indicator-session test fails, it can't connect to the session bus under fakeroot
<seb128> dunno why though...
<didrocks> seb128: yeah, I know why it's failing, I also know that I asked some people to look at it :p
<Laney> fakeroot env -u LD_PRELOAD dbus-launch gedit
<pitti> seb128: hm, I vaguely remember that we discussed this before, but I haven't looked into it since then
<didrocks> seb128: but I wonder why those are failing, and not the other ones
<Laney> which drops the fakerootery
<didrocks> ah LD_PRELOAD=libfakeroot-sysv.so
<didrocks> Laney: but, is it really safe to run the tests under this non restricted env?
 * didrocks wonders why dbus-test-runner works
<didrocks> there is no trace of the drop
<Laney> perhaps it cleans the environment
<Laney> looks like it spawns the process with an empty environment
<seb128> Laney, pitti: oh right, pitti suggested the "env -u LD_PRELOAD" last time
<Laney> yeah, that says "don't really run me under fakeroot"
<Laney> those tests probably don't need to pretend to be root anyway i suppose
<didrocks> Laney: where do you see it in dbus-test-runner? just for the info :)
<Laney> didrocks: I think it's libdbustest/service.c start_daemon()
<didrocks> ok     gchar * blank[1] = {NULL};
<didrocks> and that's what is set to the env :)
<didrocks> I think we shuld just have indicator-session using it
<Laney> I think so
<didrocks> thanks Laney :)
<Laney> didn't read it too deeply
<didrocks> Laney: yeah, but it makes sense
<didrocks> good thing to know about anyway :)
<Laney> http://developer.gnome.org/glib/2.28/glib-Spawning-Processes.html#g-spawn-command-line-async
<Laney> envp is a NULL-terminated array of strings, where each string has the form KEY=VALUE. This will become the child's environment. If envp is NULL, the child inherits its parent's environment.
<Laney> so yeah a one element NULL array does that
<didrocks> yep :)
<didrocks> thanks Laney for the help! :)
<Laney> which means you could write a wrapper to unset it for dbus-launch and re-set it for the process to be run
<Laney> np!
<seb128> Laney, hum, are you sure dbus-test-runner clean the env?
<seb128> $ fakeroot dbus-test-runner dbus-launch -t gedit
<seb128> ** (gedit:24367): WARNING **: Could not connect to session bus
<seb128> Laney, fakeroot env -u LD_PRELOAD dbus-launch gedit works
<seb128> e.G
<Laney> well didrocks said it worked, so I looked for an explanation in the code
<seb128> override_dh_auto_test:
<seb128>    env -u LD_PRELOAD dh_auto_test
<seb128> works
<Laney> I didn't run it myself ;-)
<Laney> do you need to do dbus-test-runner dbus-launch? Is that how you run it?
<didrocks> Laney: did I say it work? I did say that other are using it :)
<didrocks> I think you don't need dbus-launch, I'm looking at projects that are using it right now
<Laney> I would say that's where the problem is
<Laney> dbus-test-runner doesn't clean the env for the program it's testing, just the dbus daemon it spawns
<didrocks> I tried without, but maybe still not the right syntax
<didrocks>     @echo xvfb-run $(DBUS_RUNNER) --task ./test-application-info >> $@
<didrocks> with DBUS_RUNNER=dbus-test-runner --max-wait=0
<Laney> so you probably don't need the additional dbus-launch
<seb128> Laney, right, the dbus-launch gedit was just my base test command
<Laney> hum but it breaks with fakeroot dbus-test-runner -t gedit
<seb128> that's to emulate something that needs to connect to dbus
<Laney> why is there no manpage?!
<didrocks> fakeroot dbus-test-runner --max-wait=0 --task ./test-service
<didrocks> doesn't work either
<xnox> ogra_: it's ok. channel management is not important.
<ogra_> haha
<Sweetshark> seb128: I uploaded libcmis-0.3.0-1~ubuntu2 to chinstrap. The trivial fix was upstreamed and the package now build on i386 too: https://launchpad.net/~bjoern-michaelsen/+archive/libreoffice-nattytest2/+build/4024506
<Sweetshark> seb128: pls sponsor
<seb128> Sweetshark, ok
<Sweetshark> seb128: ah, and did you look at liblangtag_0.4.0-2~ubuntu1.dsc? it should have the licnensing fixed. I kinda lost count with the upload galore yesterday.
<seb128> Sweetshark, http://launchpadlibrarian.net/124438253/liblangtag_0.4.0-2~ubuntu1_source.changes
<seb128> (it's in NEW)
<Sweetshark> seb128: cool
<Sweetshark> seb128: btw is there a better way to check the upload queue than https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/raring/+queue ? because that one times out every second time i try to use it.
<Laney> Sweetshark: you could try bzr branch lp:ubuntu-archive-tools ; cd ubuntu-archive-tools ; ./queue -Q new -s raring-proposed info
<seb128> mvo, hey, could you have a look to https://code.launchpad.net/~straemer/ubuntu/quantal/software-properties/fix-for-1058070/+merge/136547 ? what do you think about it ? did you do single instance code in python before ?
<mvo> seb128: yeah, that looks similar to what software-center is doing also I believe nowdays there is a better way in GtkApplication or something
<seb128> mvo, right, but software-properties doesn't use GtkApplication atm I think
<seb128> mvo, does the code there looks fine to you? I'm not sure why the SoftwarePropertiesController() class is needed
<mvo> seb128: it looks fine, its just needed so that there is something sitting on the dbus
<mvo> seb128: I guess it could be done differently, i.e. by folding this into the main class, but it looks ok to me as it is
<seb128> mvo, ok, I'm merging it in then, thanks
<mvo> thank you!
<seb128> tseliot, hey, do you have a packaging vcs for fglrx-installer? could you queue those trivial fixes for the next upload (they are on the sponsoring queue)
<seb128> https://code.launchpad.net/~bkerensa/ubuntu/raring/fglrx-installer-updates/depends-fix1/+merge/135994
<seb128> https://code.launchpad.net/~bkerensa/ubuntu/raring/fglrx-installer/depends-fix1/+merge/135993
<seb128> those are just misc:Depends to add to control
<seb128> tseliot, can you review https://code.launchpad.net/~andrikos/ubuntu/quantal/fglrx-installer/fix-switch-to-igpu/+merge/132962 as well?
<mhr3> desrt, ping?
<mhr3> desrt, i was reading http://www.mesa3d.org/dispatch.html and in section 3.2 they mention interesting stuff, i wonder why doesn't glib's slice allocator use that, would make it crazy fast, wouldn't it?
<didrocks> pitti: still around?
<pitti> didrocks: oui
<pitti> preparing an apport upload, then I'll sign off
<didrocks> pitti: \o/ can you bump the build score for https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-unity/+archive/daily-build/+build/4024139? it's pending for a long time and fixing a crasher in raring
<didrocks> pitti: 4h ago, it was telling "about to build in 2h"
<pitti> done
<pitti> yeah, this morning ppc built webkit and firefox
<didrocks> pitti: and I don't want to enable the copy cron job without me being around
<didrocks> yep
<didrocks> I was more hopeful :)
<didrocks> thanks pitti!
<pitti> queue is still 25 hours long :(
<desrt> mhr3: don't know about the slice allocator
<Laney> got to go out, be back in 1 hour
<seb128> pitti, and it's not going to get any better, new KDE planned for upload soon apparently
<mhr3> desrt, wow, i found something you don't know about? *achievement unlocked*
<desrt> mhr3: usually i have more time to pretend that i know about things.  not today :p
<mhr3> heh
<tseliot> seb128:  sure, I'll check and merge those commits
<seb128> tseliot, thanks a lot!
 * didrocks waves good evening and good week-end
<Laney> hmm
<Laney> so gnome-sound-recorder is borked
<seb128> it's easy to port to gstreamer1
<seb128> I will do it next week
<Laney> I guess I'll have a look at porting that when I get back, but should we unseed it? (for now? forever?)
<Laney> oh, sweet
<seb128> it's basically porting the profile code
<seb128> and I looked at the sound-juicer commit
<seb128> it was fairly simple
<Laney> it records but when you play back it breaks
<Laney> there will be some actual gstreamer code in there
<seb128> Laney, http://git.gnome.org/browse/sound-juicer/commit/?id=862e7756ca714ad873afcab9b603e5ca8e59b862
<seb128> Laney, ok, maybe it's different, I was looking at dropping libgnome-media-profile when I looked at that
<seb128> since s-j and rb having been ported to the equivalent gst feature
<Laney> I expect it's not that complicated
<Laney> but there will likely be a little bit of porting to do
<seb128> Laney, unseed ... is that needed, does it create any installability issue or is that just runtime?
<seb128> and dropping it: no, or we need to replace it
<Laney> no it's just broken at runtime
<seb128> seeing the number of bugs/requests we got from oem team about bugs in the sound recorder, some people think it's a feature we should have :p
<Laney> it's "should we seed broken apps?" and then "do we need a mic recorder?"
<Laney> heh ok
<seb128> I will unseed it next week if it's not fixing
<seb128> but I want to have a good at the porting/fixing on monday
<Laney> for libgnome-media-profiles I just switched the BDs and it built against 1.0 fine
<seb128> ok, cool
<Laney> doesn't necessarily mean that it works, of course
<seb128> that lib is unmaintained though so I wouldn't mind dropping it ;-)
<Laney> but there is very little code in there
<Laney> btw I got a mail about gstreamer1.0 stuck in moderation for ubuntu-desktop@
<Laney> dunno who can fix that
<seb128> Laney, you are not subscribed to the list?
<Laney> it was over the size limit
<Laney> because I attached a build log
<Laney> should have linked to it
<seb128> Laney, what's the title?
<seb128> oh, found it
<seb128> Laney, accepted
<Laney> great, thanks
<jbicha_> Laney: are you going to do a ubuntu-meta upload since it explicitly depends on gstreamer0.10?
<Laney> jbicha_: I did to add 1.0 stuff
<Laney> won't drop 0.10 until we get rid of all of those apps from the default install
<jbicha_> oh I see
<Laney> it's just some audio sinks
<ricotz> Laney, hi, if you are still around, i hope you can fix your typo in gnome-video-effects ;)
<ricotz> gstreame1.0-plugins-bad, missing "r"
<Laney> lolz, yeah, can do
<Laney> ricotz: done, ta for spotting
<Laney> though i hopefully would have checked excuses tomorrow and noticed
<ricotz> Laney, thanks ;)
 * Laney gets back to killing bad guys
#ubuntu-desktop 2012-12-01
<achiang> desrt: hi, you around?
<desrt> achiang: hi
#ubuntu-desktop 2012-12-02
<BigWhale> What's up with 12.10 and AMD cards? fglrx?! :/ None of the proprietary drivers work.
<mitya57> hi jbicha, re bug 1081691 - nautilus and update-manager tasks were present because of X-Unity-IconBackgroundColor part
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1081691 in ubuntu-mono (Ubuntu) "Launcher - Update the icons used for the Software Centre, Nautilus, and Software Updater" [Undecided,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1081691
<jbicha> mitya57: ok, adding them back
 * mitya57 thinks it would be better to store the colors directly in unity without patching desktop files
 * pitti hugs desrt for https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=142568
<ubot2> Gnome bug 142568 in general "Allow $HOME to override passwd entry if the user really wants" [Enhancement,Unconfirmed]
<zzecool> is anything serious happened today with xorg and nvidia ? because whenever i try to start a video xorg crash to the login screen ....
#ubuntu-desktop 2013-11-25
<robert_ancell> RAOF, did I fail to do any convincing on the simple-scan SRU?
<RAOF> I wasn't super-convinced.
<RAOF> It was still big and ugly, and I ran out of activation energy for SRUs.
<robert_ancell> yay for processes
<RAOF> Yeah, sorry.
<robert_ancell> it's not that big and ugly - it's really a 300 line vala change
<robert_ancell> The .c stuff is just a distraction
<RAOF> Hm. Time to check errors.ubuntu.com, I thikn.
<robert_ancell> it wont show up there because it wont actually crash
<RAOF> No, to see if there are any crashes reported in the new code.
<robert_ancell> ah true
<RAOF> Because that's in 14.04.
<robert_ancell> yep
<robert_ancell> I only see one crash
<RAOF> And it's not in the new code.
<RAOF> Of course, we don't have a denominator :/
<robert_ancell> and it's a crash in the genesys driver. Which would be helped by an autosave ;)
<robert_ancell> RAOF, how many people run -proposed? I suspect that would be a better litmus test than trusty
<RAOF> Not *that* many run -proposed.
<RAOF> But the lack of crashes in trusty is somewhat reassuring.
<RAOF> robert_ancell: Enjoy your meal
<robert_ancell> RAOF, aw yeah :)
<ritz> morning
<ritz> hi, I see https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/1051921 as fix committed
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1051921 in Unity 5.0 "lens-bar-keynavigation periodically writes to /tmp/wut.png" [Medium,Fix committed]
<ritz> I dont see this anywhere
<ritz> nearest thing, I do see https://launchpad.net/unity/+milestone/5.26.0
<pitti> Good morningt
<Mirv> ritz: it's indeed fix committed, ie. it's int he code branch but it's not released yet. the latest tested and released fix was the July's bug nr. 1195730 fix
<Mirv> ritz: I don't unfortunately know when the next 12.04 unity update planned
<ritz> hmm, thanks
<ritz> where is the branch code, I am unable to locate this bit
<Mirv> ritz: https://code.launchpad.net/~unity-team/unity/5.0
<ritz> Mirv thanks , found it proposed with a different bug
<ritz> which was rejected
<ritz> hmmm
<Mirv> ok right, but it's there anyhow at the ocmmit 2423. what I do know is that the XIM commits there are a topic of discussion, and I don't know how it has progressed, ie. should they be included or not in the next update.
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<mlankhorst> Hello, world!\n
<didrocks> salut seb128, Ã§a va?
<seb128> didrocks, lut, ouais, et toi ?
<didrocks> Ã§a va bien :)
<Laney> morning chaps and chapettes
<seb128> hey Laney
<seb128> how are you?
<Laney> good thank you, went back to see my parents at the weekend which was nice
<Laney> you?
<seb128> I'm good thanks
<seb128> I had a nice relaxing w.e without too much omputer
<seb128> computer even
<seb128> and I'm happy that vUDS is over, I might be able to get some work done this week :p
<Laney> haha
<Laney> that'd be good :P
<seb128> though the week start with arguing/discussions with some of the GNOME guys
<seb128> going to be fun
<mlankhorst> the heater here is burning through some plastic seal, so I can choose stench or cold. :/
<Laney> arguing?
<Laney> actually, maybe I don't need to know ...
<Laney> mlankhorst: moar jumpers
 * mlankhorst wrapped himself in blankets
<seb128> Laney, I opened some bugs about "would be nice to have a standard menubar and display it in non gnome-shell environments"
<Laney> oh, those ...
<seb128> Laney, which some upstream took well, the file-roller guy even commited a patch friday to do it
<Laney> yeah that's to be expected a little bit
<seb128> but some of the others guy came with "that's not the GNOME design, we don't care about non shell environments"
<Laney> I thought someone had discussed it upstream
<mlankhorst> of course they don't :s
<mlankhorst> but that's no ground to veto
<Laney> xnox: neat, thanks for thunderbird
<Laney> you checked it doesn't need any changes?
 * seb128 bets he didn't
<seb128> chris seemed to think there would be changes needed
<xnox> Laney: the dependency is a bit artificial, it doesn't link against eds.... And well thunderbird needs .1 upload. Plus the dependencies need better detection. as there is now 3 types: precise, quantal - saucy, trusty+
<xnox> yeah, i was expecting chris to change it "properly".
 * xnox is just pushing for libav transition, it was down to a handful of packages over the weekend.
<seb128> xnox, it dlopens it I think
<xnox> hm.
<Laney> I think it only dlopens ebook directly
<Laney> which didn't actually change abi
<Laney> nope, I lie
<Laney> debian/eds/res/libs/eds.jsm
<xnox> that i did not spot.
<mdeslaur> seb128: who can I subscribe to bug 1253532?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1253532 in unity-greeter (Ubuntu) "Clicking Time and selecting top menu item (current date) launches evolution configuration wizard" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1253532
<seb128> mdeslaur, http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~indicator-applet-developers/indicator-datetime/trunk.13.10/revision/282
<seb128> bug #1246812
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1246812 in indicator-datetime (Ubuntu Trusty) "Can open Evolution in greeter mode" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1246812
<seb128> mdeslaur, ^ you want that fix
<mdeslaur> seb128: oh cool, thanks
<seb128> mdeslaur, yw
<seb128> we should have SRUed it when we landed the commit
<attente> seb128, hey
<seb128> attente, hey, how are you?
<attente> good good, and you?
<seb128> I'm good thanks
<attente> seb128, what are your thoughts about ibus vs fcitx for the lts?
<seb128> attente, ibus is not problematic enough that I would consider switching it, for a solution we have no user feedback on, during the lts cycle
<seb128> attente, what do you think?
<seb128> attente, it would be nice to make replacing our stuff by fcitx as easy as possible though, since that's what Kylin is doing ...
<seb128> attente, also if Chinese users prefer fcitx and get it through Kylin, that works for us and for them
<attente> happyaron said it might not be too much work to switch to fcitx, but i have a couple of concerns about how that works regarding ibus on gnome-shell and fcitx on unity
<attente> like what happens to the region panel under gnome-shell if fcitx is enabled
<seb128> attente, well, switching might not be too much work, but we have almost no feedback on it from non Chinese users, I think it's fine for Kylin but we should stay on what we know (ibus) for the LTS on the Ubuntu side
<seb128> attente, what happens under gnome-shell is a GNOME issue, I guess that session should force ibus since GNOME doesn't support/intend to support other frameworks
<attente> seb128, ok, i guess it isn't an issue either if we default with ibus either
<seb128> attente, you think it would be better to have a look at changing before the LTS?
<attente> seb128, possibly, but you're right that we don't have enough feedback from non-cjk users about if this works for them or not
<popey> xnox: guessing bug 1254742 is well known, but I couldn't find a bug for it
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1254742 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Can't login to Ubuntu One during installation due to 2-factor auth requirement" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1254742
<seb128> attente, that and we have issues, like brandon said that fcitx is supported through xim for unity and that it leads to windows placement issues with the dash for example
<xnox> popey: yes, "2fa" is not supported.
<xnox> popey: can you check, that e.g. 2fa is required to actually add/sync UbuntuOne panel? I think it somehow connected without 2fa, but I haven't verified since.
<attente> seb128, ok, you've got me sufficiently worried enough...
<seb128> lol
<seb128> attente, no need to worry there, our stuff works (mostly) and fcitx is available for those who prefer it ...
<seb128> attente, speaking about our stuff, how do we get about uploading was is in your ppa to the archive?
<attente> seb128, sure. i know they were pushing pretty hard for fcitx in the lts
<seb128> attente, I guess we need to sync unity/g-s-d changes?
<seb128> attente, well, Kylin defaults to fcitx which I guess is going to be good enough...
<popey> xnox: sure
<attente> seb128, i need to get the compiz changes in first, then we can do unity and g-s-d
<seb128> attente, the compiz changes are not going to create any conflict if they land without the other bits?
<attente> seb128, the compiz changes strictly are adding functionality that is currently not used as far as i can tell
<popey> xnox: it doesn't need 2fa. I loggedin via the panel and it used user/pass and no 2fa. I can see my cloud files in the control panel thing
<seb128> attente, ok, great, let's start by that then ;-)
<seb128> attente, can you merge propose those this week?
<attente> seb128, i already did last week, but need to test some stuff and get back to them
<seb128> ok
<xnox> popey: right, i'd like that to be raised with u1 devs than. Because either it should then work for ubiquity as well, or 2fa should be mandatory in the panel.
<xnox> popey: thanks for the test.
<seb128> bregma, Trevinho: do you guys have an opinion on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-control-center-unity/+bug/1168409 ?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1168409 in gnome-control-center-unity (Ubuntu) "Min slider value for launcher icon size needs to be updated" [Low,In progress]
<seb128> bregma, Trevinho: cf my comment there, we can update the GUI to go down to 8 but the launcher has some bugs then (e.g the badges don't scale as they should)
<bregma> seb128, I find anything below about 18 unusable, so I would have no problem setting the minimum at something like 12 to prevent scaling bugs
<bregma> there's also a bug somewhere about how odd sizes (23, 25, etc) cause aliasing on the icon corners
<seb128> is that a request to make the slider only go on even values? ;-)
<bregma> I've though about it, I'm not sure if that would just call for bugs about not being able to set odd values
<seb128> I doubt that would really annoy any users
<seb128> they mostly want to set a size that fits their screen
<cyphermox> seb128: so, you know that indicators are blocked by the libav transition? this is making indicator-datetime not installable because of evolution-data-server that didn't migrate from proposed yet
<seb128> they probably don't care about 1 pixel precision
<cyphermox> seb128: I've tested it all and it works, and I'd publish now and work on libav next
<seb128> cyphermox, hey, I don't know about the "not installable" part ... why is that?
<cyphermox> indicator-datetime needs libecal
<seb128> cyphermox, #ubuntu-release is working on libav, maybe check with them
<cyphermox> ok
<seb128> cyphermox, well, everything should be in trusty-proposed
<cyphermox> yeah, It will be in a minute when I press the button :)
<seb128> or did we get e-d-s to migrate without indicators? (how could that happen)?
<seb128> cyphermox, oh, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/indicator-datetime/13.10.0+13.10.20131023.2-0ubuntu2
<cyphermox> no
<Laney> you are about to publish one built against the release pocket?
<cyphermox> no
<Laney> why are we guessing?
<Laney> also, canvas api :(
<seb128> you are sure? ;-) (I though daily builds were not using proposed)
<seb128> Laney, canvas api?
<cyphermox> I'm sure, i-d is using the new libecal
<Laney> charge graph
<cyphermox> otherwise it would be installable from the PPA
<Laney> trying to do smooth lines
<seb128> Laney, what are you ... oh, ok
<seb128> cyphermox, the ppa is not using trusty-proposed?
<Laney> http://www.codeproject.com/Tips/562175/Draw-Smooth-Line-through-points-with-HTML5-Canvas
<Laney> like this thing
<cyphermox> seb128: it is, but that doesn't mean the packages from proposed get added to your sources when you add the ppa
<seb128> cyphermox, I see ... anyway, we need to finish that transition indeed
<cyphermox> yes, that was my point :)
<Laney> I wouldn't call that uninstallable
<seb128> cyphermox, not sure how much is missing, xnox was trying to finish it over the w.e apparently
<cyphermox> Laney: as things are, indicator-datetime is not installable from the PPA -- that tells me stuff's broken
<seb128> the ppa setup is broken yeah
<cyphermox> no
<Laney> if your PPA is using proposed then you need to use proposed to guarantee to be able to install stuff from it
<cyphermox> PPAs are working as they should
<Laney> it's not broken
<seb128> right
<cyphermox> what I mean is, I'm not going to enable proposed on my system. what this allows me to say is that packages would be blocked in proposed, that's it
<Laney> anyway, seems there are a few packages left for the transition
<Laney> fgrun, kmediafactory, kx11grab, mytharchive, octave-psychtoolbox-3, psychtoolbox-3-dbg
<xnox> seb128: "* i386: fgrun, kmediafactory, kx11grab, mytharchive, mythplugins, octave-psychtoolbox-3, psychtoolbox-3-dbg, samba4, samba4-clients, samba4-common-bin, samba4-testsuite, winbind4"
<cyphermox> yeah
<cyphermox> I have an idea about those, I had already started looking into it
<seb128> great
<xnox> seb128: which is actually "remove fgrun, kmediafactory, kx11grab, fix mythtv & octave-psychtoolbox & server team to provide compat/dummy/transitional packages"
<Laney> remove?
<xnox> Laney: fgrun/kmediafactory/kx11grab are dead upstream, not ported to libav9, non-trivial to port, leave packages, low usage.
 * seb128 is not starting the remove discussion again today
<Laney> haha
<Laney> you saw where I was going to go
<seb128> ;-)
<xnox> Laney: unless you want to port them to libav9 =) there were already a few removals / demotions done from trusty to trusty-proposed as part of this transition.
<Laney> no, I was going to refer to something else
<Laney> doesn't matter
<xnox> ah, ok.
<Laney> forgot to have lunch
<Laney> brb
<kenvandine> seb128, who was going to work on getting uss to run out of a source checkout?
<seb128> kenvandine, you?
 * kenvandine wants to know who to bribe to get that done sooner ;)
<kenvandine> ha
 * seb128 tries that trick :p
<kenvandine> i don't remember it that way :)
<kenvandine> i thought larsu maybe
<seb128> haha
<kenvandine> somebody volunteered in OAK :)
<seb128> I said I would talk to mardy about it
<kenvandine> ah
<seb128> thanks for the reminder
<kenvandine> :)
<seb128> I was planning to resume settings work this week
<kenvandine> it really is soooo frustrating
<seb128> I'm going to have a look to that tomorrow
<kenvandine> i'm working on the background panel
<seb128> yeah, it's annoying
<seb128> hint, symlink from the system location to your builddir :p
<happyaron> attente: do you think we still need a plan as discussed last Sat?
<kenvandine> oh... that's evil... but worth it :)
<Laney> I usually comment it out then copy stuff around if I can't be bothered to build :(
<Laney> that or edit the installed files
<Laney> pretty bad
<kenvandine> i keep copying the qml files
<kenvandine> which i hate
<seb128> yeah, I usually have a "make; sudo cp ...; system-settings <name>" command line
<seb128> and I keep doing "<up> <enter>"
<attente> happyaron, i asked seb128 about it a bit earlier today
<seb128> but that sucks
<attente> happyaron, for the most part, i think we're still pretty hesitant to switch to fcitx for the lts
<happyaron> attente: I read that just now
<attente> happyaron, what are your thoughts?
<seb128> happyaron, I though the vUDS consensus was that after LTS would be good enough/that changing in the middle of a LTS cycle was a bit crazy
<seb128> ?
<happyaron> we'll need a plan either for 1) keep ibus 2) switch to fcitx.
<seb128> well, we said during vUDS that we shape details for 1) for the LTS and have another session
<happyaron> seb128: I understand, but I cannot come up with a reasonably complete plan for keeping ibus, at the point of a everyday user of input method
<happyaron> so I had some more discussions with attente.
<seb128> what's wrong with ibus?
<happyaron> the drawbacks that we went over at vUDS, and that make it quite not convenient to use, :)
<happyaron> stability and code quality is another issue, but yeah, usability under Ubuntu/Unity is also a question.
<attente> happyaron, most chinese users will be using kylin though, right?
<happyaron> attente: no
<happyaron> attente: better say most OEM products.
<happyaron> Kylin is still too young, and of course too new for Chinese users.
<seb128> that topic makes me want to bang my head again the desk :-(
<happyaron> :-(
<attente> :(
<seb128> fcitx makes me really nervous
<happyaron> understand
<seb128> would it only be because it's maintained by some students, where ibus is maintained by people at RedHat and Google
<seb128> no offense to anyone
<seb128> but one of those groups gives more confidences in available resources to move the project forward
<seb128> then, we don't have any real feedback from fcitx users, especially non Chinese users
<seb128> and we learnt in 13.10 that assuming than things are working good enough is not something we can do
<happyaron> do you think the maintenance of ibus done by RH and Google is really decent for non-RH or non-Google products, ;-)
<seb128> well, they probably care about the quality of the framework and the engines
<seb128> even if they have different UI
<happyaron> most engines are maintained by thrid-party, though...
<seb128> sorry to go again over that
<happyaron> but yes I fully understand your concerns.
<seb128> but what do you see as the current main blocker with our ibus solution?
<seb128> blockers*
<happyaron> maintainability
<happyaron> and of course plus features, which you may care less, though.
<happyaron> ibus is sure maintained by RH/Google, and it's serving their products well, but we are in a possition to adapt to their big/small changes all the time, and we have little to do to influence it.
<seb128> right
<seb128> the issue is that fcitx probably needs some work
<seb128> we need some direction and to put resources on it to shape it in the way we want
<seb128> that's not going to happen before the LTS though, those things take time
<seb128> but that's a bit orthogonal
<seb128> let's say we release trusty today, with attente's ppa (which fixes some of the grabbing issues we still have)
<attente> even if we did it, we don't really know how it'll pan out for non-cjk
<seb128> what would be the experience like for a Chinese user
<happyaron> to be rude but sincere, ibus in 13.10 doesn't really work for cjk, though it may work for non-cjk.
<seb128> if the response is "not good", can you give specific of what is the most frustrating
<seb128> what doesn't work?
<seb128> I've added qwerty/pinyin to my indicator
<attente> i'm a bit curious too... because i've been using ibus just fine
<seb128> and I can cycle between french and it without issue
<attente> å¤§å®¶å¥½ï¼
<seb128> I'm sure I'm overlooking what it means to be a cjk user
<seb128> but I want to understand
<attente> i understand that fcitx adds a lot more features, but i don't see how it makes ibus unusable tbh
<attente> (i guess i'm using it really superficially though)
<happyaron> it's crashing (fixable), its shortcut does not work (fixable), it does not support per-window context (not going to work in 1.5), shortcuts aren't comfortable (upstream decision). So that able to type characters doesn't mean it work. It's technically working, but just like you won't bear it when you have a hard-to-use keyboard...
<seb128> right
<seb128> hum
<seb128> per-window context should be working in Unity
<seb128> indicator-keyboard is doing it, it's working for me
<happyaron> ok
<seb128> the conflict/non reliability are issues that should be fixed in trusty with attente's ppa
<seb128> compiz is doing the grabbing in a reliable way there
<seb128> what do you mean "shortcuts aren't comfortable"
<seb128> is that the shortcut to cycle?
<attente> seb128, i think happyaron meant that some extra settings reset between windows, even if the input source does switch properly
<seb128> that's an user setting and we can change the default
<kenvandine> i really dislike the GridView
<kenvandine> so hard to work with...
<kenvandine> in theory it should make things easier
<seb128> kenvandine, it's nice when you have a simple case/a model to throw at it
<kenvandine> i've never had any success with it
<kenvandine> things end up awkward and hacky...
<happyaron> seb128: well, makes me feel a bit difficult to describe, but hell, if it's that is easy to understand by non-cjk user then it won't be so much complicated.
<seb128> happyaron, well, the bottom line is that "we try to not do such changes in the cycle before a LTS", so I'm trying to see what way out/option we have
 * happyaron would use a longer story to describe. 
<attente> we have to fix some things related to shortcuts with fcitx too just for the record
<happyaron> people here (assume non-cjk and/or not using IME for critical work) may think an IME is working means: does not crash, shortcut works, characters popups to text entries correctly.
<happyaron> am I correct?
<seb128> no
<happyaron> then add you opinion, :)
<seb128> working is = good enough that people relying on the feature can do their work without too much frustration
<seb128> e.g that's where we need to be for the LTS
<seb128> I'm trying to figure out if we can bridge the gap with ibus to be there
<seb128> or if there is some flaws that we feel like we can't address
<happyaron> so what's the standard of "can do their work without too much frustration"?
<seb128> but to answer that question we need a list of the issues
<seb128> so we can go one by one and see what options we have and how much work they are
<seb128> there is no "standard"
<seb128> you are the team member that has the most experience about using a IME
<seb128> so we need you to make that list of issues
<seb128> so we can have a pragmatic look at how much work would "fixing ibus to be good enough" involve
<seb128> and how much work is "switching to fcitx"
<happyaron> I once though about letting you guys try out some IME on Windows... and MS-provided input method has all the features available on ibus - but very few people are using it.
<attente> what if we did the work concurrently, try to polish what we have right now as best we can, and do the migration work to fcitx in a separate ppa?
<happyaron> it's really a long research project to answer this question, which cost Sogou spend years of hundreds engineers to do.
<attente> that way we know we can always fall back onto ibus
<happyaron> I agree with such a solution.
<attente> at some point, if we can get some user testing of the ppa by non-cjk users, we might be in a better position to know if we should outright switch to it or not
<happyaron> seb128: and I was talking with attente to create a plan like you want, while I come here and see that you told him your tension of switching, :)
<jasoncwarner_> happyaron seb128 it seems the most prudent LTS solution would be to not switch inputs at this time for ubuntu. Kylin could, though. Then we could look at switching inputs in 14.10? and in the mean time use the PPA approach that attente suggests (or some other type of mechanism like that)
<seb128> happyaron, yeah, we should try to have team discussions there rather than 1-1 discussions between people
<seb128> happyaron, jasoncwarner_: do we have any user testing data on IME with ibus and/or fcitx?
<happyaron> seb128: only available one I know is from Kylin people, they did quite a bit research (but informal comparing to design team's ones) to decide to divert from us.
<seb128> attente, happyaron, I've to go in 10 minutes, but +1 on a "migration ppa" to see how that goes
<seb128> we also need a list of issues with fcitx that needs to be resolved
<seb128> like the dash using xim which leads to incorrect UI placement from fcitx
<happyaron> jasoncwarner_: I agree with the PPA approach, and understand from risk management it's better to stay with ibus for LTS, so that's the starting line and we would need to more research...
<happyaron> seb128: so I think we'll need create two plans, 1) continue with ibus 2) switch to fcitx
<happyaron> that'd better help us understand the swot of both choices. I can do that with attente, do you think it's worth doing?
<happyaron> seb128 jasoncwarner_ ^
<sil2100> seb128: hi! You leaving soon for today? :)
<attente> happyaron, count me in :)
<seb128> sil2100, hey, yes, I've sport on monday nights now
<sil2100> seb128: ah, then nevermind! Have fun! I have a package that needs a preNEW review, but it can be done later when you have more time - I'll send you the info by e-mail, would be grateful ;)
<seb128> sil2100, sure, thanks
<seb128> happyaron, attente: +1 for the ppa, but we need a list of known problems for both solutions so we can work our way down those
<happyaron> then I'll start doing the homework
<attente> seb128, ok
 * happyaron and won't forget to pull in attente, ;-)
<attente> happyaron, it's pretty late for you right now, right?
<happyaron> yup...
<seb128> attente, happyaron: let's talk a bit about that again tomorrow during the team meeting (or before/after)
<attente> sure
<happyaron> ok
<attente> happyaron, let's start a google doc listing the issues that need to be fixed on both sides
<seb128> sounds good
<attente> happyaron, or we can use the one you started for the uds session
<happyaron> attente: I prefer creating another one, and copy&paste if necessary
<attente> happyaron, ok
<gsedej> Hi! I have question about "non-native" resolutions in xrandr
<gsedej> I wish xrandr/ubuntu screen manager aplication add more availible resolutions
<gsedej> is here good place to ask?
<sarnold> gsedej: O
<sarnold> gsedej: I'm certainly no expert, but I believe both those tools simply report the values that the monitor's edid supports that are within the capabilities of the video card.. see some more information here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extended_display_identification_data
<gsedej> sarnold, problem is if you wish to connect typical 1366x768 laptop to HD display
<gsedej> HD monitors usualy dont have 1366x768 option
<gsedej> but it works if you do "xrandr --addmode 1366....
<sarnold> gsedej: and you've got a display where that works? I didn't expcet that..
<gsedej> http://pastebin.com/ea8H9ZFY
<gsedej> yes, it works
#ubuntu-desktop 2013-11-26
<vats_monroe> hi guys i need some help
<vats_monroe> I was just at the ubuntu help channel but ir seems they ran out of ideas so can i pop a question
<pitti> Good morning
<pitti> pas les gens ici aujourd'hui :(
<didrocks> non, personne
<didrocks> ces slackers!
 * pitti donne une accolade Ã  didrocks, bonjour !
 * didrocks donne une accolade en retour Ã  pitti :)
<didrocks> ah, speaking of slackers, hey seb128!
 * seb128 yawns, where is my coffee?
<seb128> didrocks, hey
<didrocks> ;)
<didrocks> seb128: sorry to bother you before your coffee, but will you be upset if we disable use-conn by default for now?
<didrocks> (as it was before you update it)
<didrocks> there are two mission-control bugs:
<seb128> what is use-conn?
<pitti> bonjour seb128
<seb128> what is "it"?
<didrocks> seb128: it == mission-control
<seb128> what's the issue?
<didrocks> see https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/telepathy-ofono/+bug/1252737
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1252737 in telepathy-ofono (Ubuntu) "[regression] Ubuntu touch cannot get GSM signal if not joined to a WLAN network" [Critical,Confirmed]
<didrocks> basically, it seems to be linked to this use-conn gsettings key set to true (it was set to false because)
<didrocks> but even if you set it to false, it works on the current session
<didrocks> but if you reboot, the settings change isn't picked
<didrocks> (another bug referenced in the bug)
<didrocks> so I did a dummy patch for now and plan to get it tested/upload it: https://launchpadlibrarian.net/157638155/telepathy-mission-control-5_1%3A5.16.0-1ubuntu1_1%3A5.16.0-1ubuntu2~ppa1.diff.gz
<didrocks> do you agree with this? ^ (take some minutes to catchup)
<seb128> didrocks, do whatever change you need, at the condition that you open upstream bug reports for your issues
<seb128> that change seems fine to me
<didrocks> seb128: yeah, there is one for not picking the key, on the other one, I need to dive more with phonefundations first
<didrocks> so that we know about the direct cause->consequence
<didrocks> seb128: thanks! :)
<seb128> yw, sorry that the update created issues
<didrocks> seb128: well, TBH, very very hard to get
<seb128> btw if you need help the #telepathy guys are nice
<didrocks> seb128: but it will be nice to have an integration test for that
<seb128> right
<didrocks> seb128: yeah, I tried to ping cassidy, but I guess he's sleeping still :)
<seb128> smcv is the main is the main maintainer for that code I think
<seb128> he's the one who did what looks like the recent changes
<seb128> e.g http://cgit.freedesktop.org/telepathy/telepathy-mission-control/commit/?id=e6974e3dac274982dedcb5451106473dea3294fd
<seb128> though cassidy reviewed it
<didrocks> yeah
<didrocks> hence the ping, better when you know people
<seb128> https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=72003
<ubot2> Freedesktop bug 72003 in mission-control "use-conn setting not working correctly" [Normal,New]
<seb128> I guess that's the bug you were refering to earlier?
<Laney> gooood morning
<seb128> Laney, good morning! how are you?
<didrocks> seb128: right
<didrocks> that's only the second part of it
<didrocks> as the first is to understand why use-conn = true prevents GSM being on
<Laney> seb128: chilly but good thanks
<Laney> you?
<seb128> same
<seb128> it has been freezing this night
<pitti> la premiÃ¨re neige ici
<Laney> yeah I was out on my bike last night
<Laney> brrr
<pitti> Laney: me too; full winter equipment now :(
<pitti> thick gloves, cap, scarf, and an extra pullover
<Laney> got some overshoes for the first time this year, they are quite helpful
<didrocks> seb128: oh, in case you didn't notice, indicators are in
<didrocks> thanks to cyphermox :)
<seb128> didrocks, yeah, I noticed, thanks ;-)
<seb128> seems like the e-d-s/samba/libav transition is still in proposed though
<didrocks> yeah
<Laney> seb128: you could process https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kmediafactory/+bug/1254011 to help that
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1254011 in libomxil-components (Ubuntu) "remove from ubuntu archive - never in debian, no upstream ports to libav9 / dead upstream" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<Laney> ;-)
<seb128> Laney, xnox: done
<xnox> thanks \o/
<Laney> :D
<darkxst> Laney, hey
<darkxst> is the gjs with autopkg tests SRU'able to saucy?
<Laney> probably not worth it
<Laney> I don't think they're run
<darkxst> Laney, saucy never got the final release of gjs]
<darkxst> so there are a bunch of bug fixes in there as well
<Laney> oh something other than the tests
<Laney> I see, then it should be doable
<darkxst> Laney, right, but should I just leave the tests in there, or strip them out?
<Laney> I think the SRU team would probably prefer it to be minimal
<Laney> so just the upstream bump and packaging changes needed for that
<darkxst> ok
<seb128> Laney, xnox: so, what's missing now in the transition? e.g why are evolution-mapi and tb on the unhappy list?
<Mirv> pitti: any connection possibly with "./configure: line 1951: config.log: Permission denied" and not yet having the 2.5.1 autopkgtest release fix? http://d-jenkins.ubuntu-ci:8080/view/Trusty/view/AutoPkgTest/job/trusty-adt-dbus-test-runner/ARCH=amd64,label=adt/6/console
<Mirv> psivaa: ^
<pitti> Mirv: yes, ignore it please
<pitti> Mirv: I'll retry the three recently failed tests as soon as autopkgtest 2.5.1 is in
<xnox> seb128: the security update of thunderbird got copied up, which did an override of my "| new-abi" package dep.
<Mirv> pitti: ok, thanks!
<psivaa> Mirv: thanks
<seb128> xnox, :-(
<Laney> I don't think mapi is unhappy, but tb lost the change
<seb128> Laney, why is mapi listed then?
<Laney> but the change wasn't right anyway, so it's not so bad :-)
<pitti> psivaa: ^ I'm on it, autopkgtest bug
 * seb128 is never going to understand the output page
<Laney> it is
<Laney> look at Trying easy from autohinter: libebml/1.3.0-2 â¦
<psivaa> pitti: ack. thank you.
<psivaa> pitti: do you have a bug number for that?
<xnox> I only see: fgrun, mytharchive, mythplugins, octave-psychtoolbox-3, psychtoolbox-3-dbg, samba4, samba4-clients, samba4-common-bin, samba4-testsuite, thunderbird-gnome-support, thunderbird-gnome-support-dbg, thunderbird-testsuite, winbind4
<xnox> which is
<xnox> ..
<pitti> psivaa: I didn't file one, not sure if someone else did
<xnox> fgrun, mytv, psychtoolbox-3, samba4, thunderbird
<pitti> psivaa: but I'm subscribed to autopkgtest bugs and there was none
<psivaa> pitti: ok, just wanted to know, if you are actively looking into this already that's fine by me
<pitti> psivaa: yes, fix is uploaded, just waiting for the archive grinders now
<pitti> psivaa: and I'll restart the tests which failed to that as soon as that happened
<pitti> failed "due" to that
<psivaa> pitti: great. thank you :)
<Laney> xnox: have you looked into any of those (the first three)?
<xnox> Laney: myth -> ftbfs, needs "porting" from ffmpeg -> either internal "mythffmepg" or to avconv from libav-tools package.
<xnox> Laney: the ftbfs, made fixing hard.
<Laney> you  mean it ftbfs even without the transition?
<xnox> Laney: yes. ftbfs in trusty-release.
<xnox> (errors at configure step =/ )
<Laney> bah
<Laney> told superm1?
<xnox> Laney: psychtoolbox-3 wants to start libglew transition, which I'd rather avoid.
<xnox> Laney: but i couldn't figure out the route cause why it becomes uninstallable.
<xnox> (the version that is in -proposed that is)
<xnox> Laney: fgrun - no idea / can't remember.
<xnox> Laney: no, i haven't contacted superm1 about it.
<Laney> might be worth it, maybe a new snapshot helps at least the ftbfs
 * Laney looks at fgrun
<seb128> you guys look at the remaining items in that transition? can I help on anything?
<seb128> chrisccoulson, hey, how are you?
<seb128> chrisccoulson, did you look at how easy it would be to make tb work with the new eds in trusty?
<Laney> I tried to build the psychtoolbox-3 that's in trusty-release and it also fails
<chrisccoulson> seb128, not yet. i've not had any time just yet
<seb128> chrisccoulson, it's one of the few remaining blockers for the e-d-s samba openchanges transition, that's blocking quite a part of the archive in trusty-proposed :/
<seb128> chrisccoulson, when do you think you are going to have time for it?
<chrisccoulson> seb128, will have a quick look this afternoon
<seb128> chrisccoulson, thanks
<seb128> chrisccoulson, should we just turn off that code temporary otherwise?
<chrisccoulson> seb128, that's probably what i will end up doing ;)
<Laney> fgrun works with the patch from the Debian bug
<Laney> oh, haha, that's not even libav - it's yet another transition
<Laney> entanglement is no fun
<Laney> might as well NMU that
<mpt> Wellark, do you plan for indicator-network to ship in Ubuntu for PC in 14.04?
<seb128> mpt, dunno what he plans, but Ubuntu Desktop doesn't plan to take it in the desktop edition
<mpt> ok
<seb128> mpt, it's too new/not tested enough/lacking "enterprise features"
<Laney> blerg, getting bogged down in transition details in debian
 * Laney just uploads to trusty
<seb128> sil2100, hey
<Wellark> mpt: indicator-network will not ship by default on the desktop
<mpt> Wellark, 14.10?
<Wellark> mpt: 14.10 is so far away
<Wellark> who knows ;)
<sil2100> seb128: hi!
<sil2100> seb128: any issues with the package?
<sil2100> (I assume yes ;) )
<Wellark> mpt: but sure. let's aim for indicator-network to be the default for 14.10 and onwards
<seb128> sil2100, yes, why is it named "unity-scopes" when the Vcs is "unity-scopes-api"
<seb128> sil2100, the source package I mean
<mpt> ok
<Wellark> fully converged
<sil2100> Oooh, ok, that's a bug
<seb128> sil2100, didn't we say upstream sources and Ubuntu package names need to be identical?
<sil2100> seb128: I'll rename it to unity-scopes-api
<seb128> sil2100, thanks
<seb128> sil2100, otherwise it looks good (packaging, licenses, etc)
<seb128> sil2100, good work ;-)
<sil2100> Thank you! Soon maybe I'll be able to do a packaging review without leaving out any of the important parts ;p
<seb128> sil2100, your packages are mostly good nowadays, that one is not even a blocker for the archive ... it's just a naming inconsistency, which is probably good to resolve before upload
<didrocks> well, cu2d won't like it otherwise :)
<Laney> seb128: do you think we can remove psychtoolbox-3 from proposed so I can upload an older version?
<Laney> I got one based on trusty-release which builds
<seb128> Laney, (back from lunch) Does that work with launchpad, publishing an older version in proposed?
<Laney> yeah
<seb128> ok, let me remove the current one then
<Laney> means we won't be able to have the same version again though
<Laney> so can't sync it in the future
<Laney> not a big issue imo
<seb128> indeed not
<seb128> why is the new version problematic?
<Laney> glew transition
<Laney> requires one
<seb128> oh, yet another transition
<seb128> great :p
<Laney> yeah, leave that one for later ...
<seb128> Laney, done
<Laney> great, ty
<seb128> yw!
<jdstrand> xnox: regarding tbird: oh, crud, that was me. are you fixing it? if not, let me
<Laney> jdstrand: it needs porting, the previous fix was incomplete
<jdstrand> er
<jdstrand> f
<Laney> chris was going to have a look this afternoon
<jdstrand> Laney: does that mean it was actually broken before still?
<desrt> good morning!
<Laney> I didn't try it, but seems likely you'd have had errors at runtime
<jdstrand> ie, 1:24.0+build1-0ubuntu2 was busted
<jdstrand> ok
<desrt> seb128: sanity check.  how long until meeting?
<Laney> 97
<jdstrand> well, I guess you could say I pointed a spotlight at it :)
<seb128> desrt, hey, 1h38
<desrt> !!
<mlankhorst> desrt: date -u ;)
<Laney> yeah, go grab an extra 90 minutes of sleep
<desrt> nah.  i have to drive to hamilton.  better drive fast :)
<Laney> wtf
<Laney> mythtv configure fails. Go into the chroot and run the same command. mythtv configure passes.
<xnox> jdstrand: don't worry about it. thunderbird does work in trusty, it's borked in trusty-proposed as all things in trusty-proposed should =)
<xnox> =)
<jdstrand> ok, good
<seb128> shotwell migrated their bugs to b.g.o
<seb128> one nice side effect is that we are going to be able to watch upstream bug from launchpad, since bugzilla is supported where redmine was not
<seb128> the way they did the import sucks though, they shuffled all comments/history in one chunk of text without formatting, which is really not nice to read :/
<seb128> e.g https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=719240
<ubot2> Gnome bug 719240 in ux "Publishing dialog can be minimized in Unity" [Normal,New]
<seb128> tjaalton, mlankhorst, xorg guys: can you review the xserver-xorg-video-* sync requests in the sponsoring queue and ack/nack those?
<seb128> syncpackage them if acked btw
<seb128> thanks
<mlankhorst> seb128: I want to wait with syncing until we decide on xorg1.15 or not
<mlankhorst> but meh fine lets sync
<seb128> mlankhorst, why? we can do no changes rebuilds for those 10 sources if needed
<Laney> syncpackage has an option for sponsnoring
 * mlankhorst can always add a buildXXX for a rebuild
<seb128> right
<Laney> don't forget to use it!
<seb128> -b <bug> -s <user>
<seb128> use that
<seb128> mlankhorst, ^
<mlankhorst> fine i'll look :P
<seb128> thanks
<Laney> xnox: got mythtv to build (ccache fail), now to look for a libav patch I guess ...
<xnox> Laney: i think they recommend to use "mythffmpeg", if normal "ffmpeg" binary is not available. But I see plenty of places only looking up "ffmpeg" and not falling back to "mythffmpeg" / "avconv".
<Laney> xnox: only the mytharchive plugin has a dependency on ffmpeg
<Laney> AFAICS
<xnox> correct.
<Laney> where do you see a problem?
<sil2100> kenvandine: ping!
<sil2100> kenvandine: can you take a look https://code.launchpad.net/~sil2100/cupstream2distro-config/enable_unity-scopes-api/+merge/196729 ?
<kenvandine> sil2100, sure
<sil2100> kenvandine: thanks!
<xnox> Laney: well $ grep -e '"ffmpeg"' -e "'ffmpeg'" -r .     bring up plenty of results, most are false positivies, but some are real. The mytharchive itself, seems to use mythffmpeg, so the dependency is errours?
<Kaleo> dist-upgrade from today on trusty and I lost my desk top
<Kaleo> can somebody help me? typing from phone not convenient
<seb128> Kaleo, what happens?
<Laney> xnox: I didn't look elsewhere in the code :P
<seb128> Kaleo, is guest session working?
<Kaleo> lightdm starts
<xnox> Laney: but e.g. the sql dump (wherever that is used) brings up  at least: MythArchiveFfmpegCmd 'ffmpeg'
<Kaleo> shows normal screen for split second
<Kaleo> then black screen with a dialogue
<xnox> Laney: which suggests to me that actually it's configured at the moment to use ffmpeg instead of mythffmpeg.
<seb128> Kaleo, what is the dialog saying?
<Kaleo> "running in low graphics mode"
<Kaleo> then I click ok
<xnox> Laney: to be honest, I'd drop the dependancy & open a critical bug saying that "if one is using ffmpeg, they should be somehow migrated off it" and to "avconv" or "mythffmpeg"
<seb128> Kaleo, what video card/driver do you use?
<qengho> 15:30 UTC. Meeting?
<Laney> xnox: Will look a bit more after $meeting
<Kaleo> then ubresponsive dialogue with 4 choices
<seb128> qengho, yes
<Kaleo> I'm on Intel GPU
<xnox> Laney: cause who knowns where/what implies if codec == 'ffmpeg' exec(codec)
<seb128> Kaleo, my guess is that you install libhybris or something when testing some touch stuff
<seb128> Kaleo, which is diverting libgl or such
<Laney> there's loads of random perl scripts that look like they run ffmpeg and so on
<Laney> bah
<ritz> Kaleo, I am on trusty, today's update
<seb128> qengho, Sweetsha1k, mlankhorst, Laney, tkamppeter_, desrt, attente, larsu: hey, it's meeting time
<Kaleo> seb128: let me check
<seb128> Kaleo, check /var/log/dpkg.log for new packages installed
<desrt> MEETING
<desrt> !!
<seb128> desrt, heh, you made it!
<seb128> let's get started ;-)
<seb128> qengho, hey
<desrt> seb128: with lots of time to spare :)
<qengho> Hey guys.
<qengho> * UDS last week.  Interest:  1) Webapps.  2) Privacy.
<qengho> * Prepared new release of chromium-browser for #security. Testing.
<qengho> * To do: enforce apparmor on the SUID part of chromium. Kind of scary.
<qengho> EOF
<mlankhorst> sponsoring done, enjoy the non-updates :P
<seb128> qengho, thanks
<seb128> Sweetsha1k, hey
<seb128> no Sweetsha1k?
<seb128> mlankhorst, hey
<mlankhorst> UDS, reviewing kernel drm code, sru verification, preparing mesa 10 for debian-experimental and ubuntu (grab it now at ppa:canonical-x/x-staging only required a workaround for a single armhf linker bug!!! :D)
<mlankhorst> and some sponsoring ;)
<seb128> mlankhorst, thanks
<seb128> Laney, hey
<Laney> HELLO!
<Laney> â¢ vUDS
<Laney> â¢ Wrangling e-d-s/evolution transition
<Laney> â Still looking into mythtv
<Laney> â¢ Quite a few merges
<Laney> â¢ A tough time with webkitgtk. arm64 still sad. Need porterbox please :(
<Laney> â¢ Couple of small u-s-s merges
<Laney> â Show regulatory-info if there's a plugin available
<Laney> â Fix for some build system / lintian issues
<Laney> â Start looking into charge graph & learning canvas API. There's a resizing bug (rotate your phone to see it) & another problem where if you start u-s-s straight into the battery panel the graph is messed up / doesn't appear...
<Laney> â¢ Submit AS patches upstream
<Laney> â¢ GStreamer point release updates
<Laney> EOF
<seb128> Laney, what AS patches?
<Laney> overrides for vendor extensions
 * desrt raises an eyebrow
<desrt> AS?
<Laney> AS!
<desrt> AS....
<desrt> AS in...
<Laney> anyway...
<desrt> :)
<Kaleo> seb128: that was not the issue; btw sent you pic by email
 * desrt . o O ( one day, i will find out what AS means... )
<seb128> Laney, I guess I didn't follow that work
<seb128> desrt, accountsservice
<desrt> ahhh
<desrt> of course.  thanks :)
<Laney> I talked about it with some people in oak
<Laney> oh haha, I thought you were joking
<desrt> Laney: link me up to those patches.  i'll take a look to see if i can help.
<Laney> think you were subscribed to the bug
 * desrt didn't see anything
<Laney> okies
<seb128> Laney, I'm interested by the bug number as well, just to know what we are talking about
<seb128> I followed the vendor work
<seb128> but not what we need overrides for
 * desrt is slightly suspicious
<Laney> Kind of the same as gsettings overrides
<desrt> i have a feeling that vendor overrides to vendor extensions may not be popular with upstream :)
<Laney> If we're shoving more and more stuff into AS then it probably will be useful at some point
<Laney> some OEM team person was going on about it, forgot who
<Laney> and yeah, Stef sounded suspicious
<desrt> Laney: iirc, the way i wrote the accountsservice patch is that it will throw an exception if you don't declare a default value on a property and it's not set, right?
<Laney> not sure
<desrt> maybe it would be better just to let apps that i want to have the possibility of overrides grab the exception and implement their own mechanism
<desrt> Laney: i can't imagine i did it any other way... all of the other options would have upset me too much :p
<Laney> I mean that I didn't check :-)
 * desrt will take a look at the bug if you send a link along
<Laney> It does what you'd expect, but probably with some shitty code and bugs: https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=71393
<ubot2> Freedesktop bug 71393 in general "Overrides for vendor extensions" [Normal,Needinfo]
 * desrt pictures stefw "...this is what happens when you say yes..."
<seb128> ok, let's discuss specific details after the meeting if needed
<Laney> might want to move on with the meeting
<Laney> :P
<seb128> Laney, thanks
<seb128> desrt, thanks as well
<seb128> (btw that shows that meetings are useful ;-)
<seb128> tkamppeter_,  hey
<desrt> yup
<larsu> seb128: we already know this meeting is useful ;)
<Laney> yeah it stops me having cocktails by the pool for 30 minutes
<seb128> lol
<seb128> no tkamppeter_?
<seb128> desrt, your turn then ;-)
<desrt> sweet
<desrt> going back two weeks, lots of glib bug fixing
<desrt> including finally slaying that ppc test failure issue
<desrt> turned out to be a bug in valgrind
<desrt> we have a patch to work around that that the debian guys are applying.... i don't want to merge it upstream because it would diverge our copy of valgrind.h from the upstream version... so there is a valgrind bug open which is mostly being ignored, meanwhile :/
<seb128> glib build-depends on valgrind?
<desrt> it has an in-tree copy of valgrind.h
<desrt> and this file contains a bug on ppc
<desrt> basically, valgrind has these macros to detect if valgrind is running
<seb128> I see
<desrt> that emit magic sequences of machine instructions that would never otherwise be emitted by the compiler
<larsu> "never"
<desrt> that valgrind can notice and say "ah!  you must want to talk to me..."
<desrt> anyway... those instructions are _supposed_ to be no-ops when valgrind isn't running
<desrt> but the asm sequence on PPC clobbers the r0 register
<desrt> which can lead to all kinds of problems if r0 was being used to store something important.... like pointers to memory in the slice allocator...
<seb128> "fun"
<desrt> ya..
<desrt> real party time
<desrt> case closed in any case, just have to wait to see what happens upstream
<desrt> this week i got a request from the phone guys to improve the story of overrides (noticing a theme here?)
<desrt> they want to use dconf for vendors to do lockdown and such.... i'm about to give up and just support that
<desrt> but i want to do it properly: overrides in the xdg data dirs, etc.  plus better tools to support compiling databases to install there
<seb128> cool
<desrt> as a bit of a side-track when working on that stuff i've been improving test coverage in dconf and generally improving the tools...
<desrt> including adding support that when you give a bad value with gvariant, you get nicer output
<desrt> [1, 2, 'str']
<desrt>  ^     ^^^^^  like this
<larsu> and then you abort()
<desrt> so i did patches for that for gdbus, gsettings, dconf, gapplication commandline tools
<desrt> larsu: not on invalid input to commandline tools.... exit(1) is enough :)
<seb128> lol
<larsu> :)
<desrt> anyway... that's all
<seb128> desrt, thanks
<seb128> attente, hey
<attente> seb128, hey
<attente> the past 2 weeks: UDS, IM/keyboard layouts planning, small fixes to i-kb, u-g-m, themes, refactoring the u-s-s language panel code, trying to get the modifier-only input switching ppa merged upstream, starting with compiz
<attente> currently trying to debug a u-g-m crash
<larsu> attente: as always, let me know if you need help with that
<attente> larsu, you really don't like overlay-scrollbars, don't you :P
<larsu> attente: (a) no; (b) I think I'm done with that; (c) just trying to be nice ;)
<Laney> haha
<larsu> oh I forgot: (d) really, no!
<seb128> attente, thanks ;-)
<seb128> larsu, your turn
<larsu> seb128: ok
<larsu> I actually wasn't terribly productive this last week
<larsu> being kind of stuck on the overlay-scrollbar issue
<larsu> which is done as of today
<larsu> (I think)
<desrt> death to overlay scrollbars!!
<seb128> \o/
<larsu> also did a few minor changes to the 3.10 update
<seb128> you manage to get those working as before?
<ritz> yay !
<seb128> or did you have to drop animations and stuff on the way?
<larsu> and a couple of bug fixes in appmenu/messages that people pinged me about
<larsu> seb128: no, works as before
<desrt> long live overlay scrollbars!!
<seb128> larsu, you are a rockstar
<larsu> I tried to find the most minimally-intrusive solution
<larsu> and it's a very small patch now
<attente> oh, nice
<larsu> which makes me happy (because I probably didn't break that much(
<larsu> seb128: well, let's wait...
<larsu> desrt: bah
 * desrt watches larsu minimise his liabilities under the international 'touched it last' convention
<larsu> yep, just trying to keep bzr blame | grep larsu | wc -l as small as possible
<desrt> :)
<seb128> larsu, let me know when you have things to test
<desrt> larsu: does that mean we're more or less unblocked on gtk 3.10?
<larsu> seb128: I'll upload it after the indicator meeting (which starts now)
<larsu> desrt: yes
<desrt> nice
<larsu> desrt: well, there's that install issue on a pbuilder iirc
<desrt> time to start bothering laney about the new glib, then :)
<seb128> larsu, thanks
<seb128> great news
<desrt> which (as i mentioned to him privately) is going to be needed for the dconf stuff (along with new dconf) for the features the phone guys want
<seb128> ok, so my turn
<seb128> * vUDS (hosting a track sucks, lot of "being around for session even if not participating to the discussion")
<seb128> * some desktop merges, updates and bug fixes
<seb128> * e.u.c triaging/pinging people/opening bugs
<seb128> * some more thinking/discussions about keyboards/ibus/fcitx
<seb128> * helped testing new e-d-s and uoa, upstreamed calendar bug, backported upstream fix for it
<seb128> * some reports/discussions about having traditional menubars for GNOME apps under Unity
<seb128> * some u-d-s reviews
<larsu> desrt: have a look at the testsuit/gtk/Makefile.am if you get some time. I think its wrong but didn't have time to investigate yet
<seb128> * bug triage/trying to find issues we need to solve for the LTS
<seb128> </week>
<chrisccoulson> * poking chrisccoulson about thunderbird
<chrisccoulson> ;)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, how is that going btw? ;-)
<desrt> chrisccoulson: nice to have you around these parts a bit more lately :)
<chrisccoulson> heh :)
<Laney> s/u-d-s/u-s-s/?
<chrisccoulson> seb128, going to look shortly ;)
<larsu> seb128: ARGH we're reverting to traditional menu bars on GNOME apps?
<larsu> which means... all apps
<desrt> oh.  i wrote a wiki page about that
<desrt> http://wiki.gnome.org/HowDoI/FallbackMenubar has some initial ideas for how this can work
<seb128> larsu, "all" being like 5 apps we get from GNOME ?
<desrt> https://wiki.gnome.org/HowDoI/AlternateMenubarLayout rather
<larsu> seb128: only gnome apps have overlay scrollbars, no?
<seb128> Laney, yes, u-s-s
<larsu> oh, you mean the gnome 3 apps?
<seb128> larsu, well, what we discuss in Oakland
 * desrt coughs
<seb128> larsu, having traditional menus for e.g evince
<seb128> gnome-calculator file-roller rhythmbox are on that list
<desrt> seb128: how far did you get with the calculator?
<desrt> and did you break it for gnome-shell in the process?
<seb128> desrt, I've a patch on https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=712831
<ubot2> Gnome bug 712831 in general "Should have a standard menubar for non GNOME3 environments" [Normal,Unconfirmed]
<seb128> desrt, https://bug712831.bugzilla-attachments.gnome.org/attachment.cgi?id=260467
<seb128> desrt, and not that I know
<seb128> desrt, I did what gedit does
<desrt> cool
<seb128> check the xsetting
<desrt> cheers to gedit devs for being awesome
<seb128> and display the menubar or the appmenu in function
<larsu> seb128: right, ignore me. Apparently I can't listen to the indicator meeting and follow this discussion. Sorry!
<seb128> the upstream bug turned into a flameware/argument though
<desrt> oh.  people in this bug already discuss my proposal
<seb128> yeah
<desrt> maybe i should put some text on the page making it more clear that this is only a proposal
<seb128> it has been turning into a flameware about GNOME design direction and other desktops
<desrt> lovely
 * desrt loves accidentally starting flamewars
<seb128> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=705909 also
<ubot2> Gnome bug 705909 in general "Add headerbar and set that as titlebar" [Normal,Resolved: fixed]
<seb128> just for the record, that's how gnome-calculator "new design" looks like under xfce
<seb128> https://bug705909.bugzilla-attachments.gnome.org/attachment.cgi?id=261416
<seb128> wm bar, gtkheaderbar, appmenu fallback
<seb128> anyway, fun discussions yesterday
<seb128> on that note, we overrun our half a bit
<seb128> is there any other question/comments/...?
<seb128> seems not
<seb128> thanks everyone
<desrt> seb128: thanks
 * desrt adds admonition to the top of his wiki page
<Laney> ta
<ritz> desrt, what is the bit about death to overlay scrollbar ?
<desrt> ritz: nothing, unfortunately
<desrt> larsu was having great difficulty upgrading it to work with gtk 3.10
<desrt> so we thought that maybe we would just drop it
<desrt> but then he made it owrk
<desrt> so it stays
<ritz> oh, thanks :(
<desrt> ritz: you can always just uninstall it.....
<seb128> or change the gsettings key to disable them
<ritz> it is nice for touch screen laptop
<ritz> on my backup system, which is not touchscreen
<ritz> seb128, thanks :)
<seb128> yw
<seb128> ritz, btw, can you verify the GTK sure in saucy, that's your fix for the folder name ellipsizing
 * ritz check
<ritz> seb128, has been pushed into saucy
<seb128> ritz, you mean? the SRU is in saucy-proposed and needs to be verified to move to updates
<ritz> I am an idiot
<seb128> bah, lightdm hates me
<seb128> (I was trying to run unity-greeter under valgrind for bug #1255076, but I don't get the bug here so it makes it less useful)
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1255076 in unity-greeter (Ubuntu) "/usr/sbin/unity-greeter:*** Error in `/usr/sbin/unity-greeter': free(): invalid pointer: ADDR ***" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1255076
<seb128> did anyone had his greeter not starting/starting in low graphics mode in trusty?
<seb128> (out of Kaleo)
<seb128> mterry, hey, you don't know about ^ by any chance?
<seb128> ok, I'm away for some debugging again and some errands, back in 1h or so
<Laney> chrisccoulson: what's the right branch for firefox packaging MPs?
<Laney> to get into trusty
<Laney> firefox-beta.trusty or lp:firefox?
<chrisccoulson> Laney, yeah, lp:firefox
<Laney> ok
<chrisccoulson> Laney, oh, that breaks installability for < 14.04, doesn't it?
<Laney> chrisccoulson: for zenhei, yeah
<Laney> ukai had that package in precise
<Kaleo> anybody working on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity-greeter/+bug/1255076 right now?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1255076 in unity-greeter (Ubuntu) "/usr/sbin/unity-greeter:*** Error in `/usr/sbin/unity-greeter': free(): invalid pointer: ADDR ***" [High,Confirmed]
<Kaleo> seb128, I found it
<Kaleo> seb128, sudo apt-get remove --purge indicator-datetime
<Kaleo> seb128, fixes it :)
<seb128> Kaleo, indicator issue?
<seb128> Kaleo, haha, I hinted that it might be on the bug :p
<seb128> Kaleo, did you read that?
<seb128> so we have an issue than the greeter doesn't deal with buggy indicators
<Kaleo> seb128, yes, that's why I started testing
<seb128> and one that the indicator is buggy
<Kaleo> seb128, removing indicators
<seb128> Kaleo, thanks for nailing it down
<seb128> charles_, larsu: ^
<happyaron> seb128: let's review what attente and I wrote yesterday?
<larsu> seb128: I'll have a look
<larsu> seb128: I've pushed a couple of changes into my 3.10 branch (not all issues fixed yet, though) and the overlay-scrollbar ones as well: https://code.launchpad.net/~larsu/overlay-scrollbar/fix-for-3.10
<mterry> seb128, you poked me about a unity-greeter crash earlier?  sorry I was afk
<larsu> seb128: nice and small :)
<seb128> larsu, thanks
<seb128> larsu, mterry: basically it seems that https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/indicator-datetime/13.10.0+14.04.20131125-0ubuntu1 has a bug and being buggy takes the greeter down with it
<seb128> larsu, mterry: https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1255076 is the greeter error, seems an invalid free call
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1255076 in unity-greeter (Ubuntu) "/usr/sbin/unity-greeter:*** Error in `/usr/sbin/unity-greeter': free(): invalid pointer: ADDR ***" [High,Confirmed]
<larsu> seb128: no backtrace though?
<seb128> happyaron, sure, give me a few minutes to catch up with pings and stuff ... can you give me the url?
<seb128> Kaleo, did you get infos on the datetime issue? is the indicator segfaulting/triggering an apport report?
<Kaleo> seb128, not really no
<Kaleo> seb128, just trying to get back to my work :)
<seb128> Kaleo, ok, don't worry
<happyaron> seb128: https://docs.google.com/a/canonical.com/document/d/1TLj9I9DWFK7zwbI_veIt_RA5YX76e1k-ORgzVwkBL5U/edit?usp=sharing
<seb128> Kaleo, that's what you get for running proposed btw :p
<happyaron> attente: around?
<Kaleo> seb128, tssss
<Kaleo> seb128, people uploading without testing?
<Kaleo> seb128, you mean? :)
<seb128> Kaleo, but thanks for taking the bullet for the team ;-)
<attente> happyaron, yep, i'm here
<seb128> larsu, no bt that I can tell, can you sanity check the recent changes to the indicator in case you see an issue in there?
<seb128> mterry, did you manage to reproduce the bug?
<seb128> or just happening to timeout?
<mterry> seb128, just timing out  :)
<seb128> :-(
<mterry> seb128, I haven't looked at the bug yet, been busy
<seb128> k, no worry
<mterry> seb128, I can look at it shortly
<seb128> mterry, yeah, no hurry (yet)
<seb128> that version of the indicator is stucked in proposed with the e-d-s samba libav transitions atm
<seb128> we aim at unblocking those soon but I doubt it's going to happen today, we are going to need at least a tb upload before that happens
<seb128> chrisccoulson keeps saying he's going to look at it and he would say that if he was not going to do it
<seb128> chrisccoulson, right? ;-)
<larsu> seb128: sure
<Laney> hahaha
<Laney> I like this strategy of getting someone to do work
<seb128> Laney, shush, don't ruin my subtle move :p
<Laney> I was afraid someone didn't notice :P
<Laney> it was so discreet after all
<seb128> lol
<seb128> ok, let me try to reproduce that greeter issue (assuming lightdm 1.9 stops screwing user switching for me)
<seb128> great
<seb128> it's easy to reproduce
<larsu> seb128: I have a candidate of where it might be. Do you have a bt for me?
<seb128> larsu, going to in a minute, let me get the dbgsym and unpack the apport info
<larsu> thanks, that way I don't have to :)
<seb128> larsu, mterry: http://paste.ubuntu.com/6480184/
<larsu> seb128: ah, that's the memory leak fix I did
<larsu> let's just revert that!
<seb128> larsu, wfm, can you proposed the revert and I can test the fix/confirm it's resolving it?
<seb128> -d
<larsu> seb128: I'm kidding
<larsu> you don't want _that_ bug again
<seb128> ?
<seb128> larsu, you lost me :p I though maybe you had a buggy fix over-freeing things ;-)
<larsu> seb128: heh, no. It's because of the fix I did for the u-p-s leaking all the memory when using the gimp
<larsu> now that we're freeing the widget, something inside the widget gets freed twice
<larsu> or something uninitialized gets passed into free()
<larsu> either way, I'm on it
<larsu> thanks for the bt
<seb128> oh, ok, I see ... I was going to say, the GTK fix was not buggy (at least we SRUed and didn't get new reports)
<seb128> larsu, thanks
<Kaleo> and please test your stuff.
<seb128> larsu, btw that's what happens when you run indicators in process and not through u-p-s :p
<seb128> larsu, an indicator gets a bug and your greeter is down letting you with no system
<larsu> seb128: I'm fairly sure that this is a bug in the widget, not in the indicator
<seb128> larsu, well, same difference...
<larsu> ha
<seb128> larsu, btw, scrollbars work great \o/
<larsu> :)
<seb128> nice job!
<larsu> thanks
<mterry> seb128, I got disconnected again!  Did you see my question / comment about datetime?
<seb128> mterry, no
<mterry> <mterry> seb128, did anything precede this?
<mterry> <mterry> seb128, looks like a bug in the indicator code
<mterry> <mterry> seb128, datetime
<seb128> mterry, right, unping, it's a segfault in the indicator, but since those are loading in process in u-g (e.g we don't have unity-panel-service protecting it) it's taking the greeter down with it
<mterry> seb128, I hate my irc connection, I miss all the fun stuff
<happyaron> Laney: can you have a look at bug 1173571 again? it needs someone to make the change into trusty seeds.
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1173571 in Ubuntu Seeds "please change wenquanyi micro hei back with 69-language-selector-zh-tw.conf" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1173571
<seb128> mterry, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/indicator-datetime/+bug/1255076/comments/6
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1255076 in unity-greeter (Ubuntu) "/usr/sbin/unity-greeter:*** Error in `/usr/sbin/unity-greeter': free(): invalid pointer: ADDR ***" [High,Confirmed]
<seb128> mterry, that's the bt
<larsu> mterry: I'm on it, though ;)
<mterry> yay for larsu!
<seb128> ;-)
<seb128> happyaron, attente: sorry, I had to deal with the trusty unity-greeter stuff, looking at the ibus/fcitx summary now
<happyaron> np, :)
<happyaron> mterry: what would need to be done on getting fonts-droid's MIR complete?
<happyaron> sorry, fonts-android
<seb128> happyaron, can you give me permission to comment on the document?
<mterry> happyaron, it needs to be seeded
<mterry> happyaron, the MIR is done.  It just needs to actually be added to Ubuntu now
<happyaron> seb128: shared again, attente gave edit permission to your @ubuntu.com address yesterday.
<attente> is editing not enough for commenting?
<happyaron> mterry: I see, thanks.
<mterry> happyaron, I think there was a seed change proposal filed.  It just hasn't been reviewed/approved yet
<happyaron> attente: perhaps he doesn't have @ubuntu.com address connected to google?
<seb128> attente, I guess it is, I don't have an account @ubuntu.com though, mine is a canonical one ... that's confusing with google drive, not sure why it lists one that is not valid
<seb128> happyaron, ^
<happyaron> mterry: yup, that's what I pinged Laney for
<attente> seb128, you should be able to edit with your canonical one too
<seb128> attente, it's working now
<seb128> attente, happyaron: comment spamming you guys :p
<attente> :)
<seb128> attente, happyaron: done with my first reading/comments spam :p
<attente> thanks seb128
<happyaron> seb128: commenting back, :)
<larsu> seb128: how do you reproduce this problem? Does it crash right at the start?
<seb128> happyaron, I see, it's almost as fun as IRC :p
<seb128> larsu, yes, I reproduced by trying to switch user, Kaleo gets it on boot
<Kaleo> larsu, just upgrade to trusty-proposed :)
<seb128> happyaron, attente: if I want to test fcitx, what binaries should I install?
<happyaron> seb128: apt-get install fcitx fcitx-libpinyin && im-config -n fcitx, then re-login.
<seb128> happyaron, thanks
<larsu> seb128: https://code.launchpad.net/~larsu/ido/lp1255076/+merge/196771
<larsu> seb128: gotta run now. Hope this works for you ;)
<larsu> have a nice evening!
<seb128> larsu, thanks again, have a good evening, you made my day!
<larsu> ooh did I?
<seb128> larsu, I'm not going to comment on your taking 10 days to write 10 lines of code on the scrollbars :p
<larsu> awesome :)
<seb128> "it's only code" :p
 * seb128 hugs larsu
 * larsu slaps seb128
<larsu> :PO
<seb128> larsu, I'm glad you find a solution with such a small diff, I was getting concerned it would end up being a rewrite
<larsu> seb128: ya, that's what I was getting tangled up in at first
<larsu> which is why it took that long
<larsu> but it only led to madness
<seb128> larsu, anyway, the solution combined with it being that small patch made my day, enjoy your evening!
<larsu> seb128: thanks, you too!
<seb128> cyphermox, we need an ido upload as soon as https://code.launchpad.net/~larsu/ido/lp1255076/+merge/196771 get merged, can we make that happen through CI or do we better do a manual upload and merge back?
<seb128> cyphermox, the current indicator-datetime is going unity-greeter down through this bug, which leads to "no way to log in" for users of the new indicator version (it's only in trusty-proposed atm but we can't count on that to remain true and some users get the update from the ppa/proposed)
<happyaron> attente: can you comment on seb128
<attente> seb128 is a fine young man?
<seb128> lol
<happyaron> ... his question on adding features to indicator-keyboard
<cyphermox> hrm
<cyphermox> how is that ido fix related to indicator-datetime?
<cyphermox> nevermind
<seb128> cyphermox, ido provides the calendar widget
<cyphermox> I don't know why you're getting that, indicator-datetime was just fine here
<seb128> cyphermox, I'm not the only one, it's the most reported issue today on e.u.c for trusty
<seb128> cyphermox, I don't know why you are not getting that, did you try to go the greeter since you installed the update?
<cyphermox> hpw can it be if it's still in proposed?
<cyphermox> well anyway, we need to wait for the merge..
<seb128> cyphermox, I guess most trusty users run the daily build ppa or proposed
<seb128> cyphermox, well, most reported = 10 reports
<cyphermox> when specifically told not to?
<cyphermox> ;)
<seb128> we don't have that many reports
<seb128> cyphermox, what version are you running? ;-)
<cyphermox> trusty
<seb128> that's why you don't see the issue :p
<cyphermox> doesn't mean I install packages from proposed willy nilly
<seb128> hehe
<cyphermox> heh
<seb128> well, anyway, if the indicator updates migrate to trusty, users are going to be unhappy
<seb128> so let's avoid that
<cyphermox> yes
 * seb128 tries the fix, that might take my session down, brb
 * cyphermox kicks jenkins
<seb128> how lovely, it didn't screw my session and I could confirm the fix!
<seb128> larsu, cyphermox, Kaleo: ido fix confirmed to work ;-)
<cyphermox> yay
<Kaleo> seb128, BRILLIANT
<Kaleo> seb128, are we hardening the greeter?
<seb128> Kaleo, I doubt it, we are planning to replace that one by the qt version, we should think about that for the new one
<seb128> Kaleo, the switch might happen this cycle, so we are probably not going to spend much effort on the old codebase
<Kaleo> seb128, cool
<Kaleo> seb128, and by qt you mean QML of course right?
<seb128> Kaleo, correct
<Kaleo> seb128, thanks for your quick and efficient feedback on the bug
<seb128> Kaleo, it's a variant of the phone greeter
<Kaleo> seb128, it's refreshin
<Kaleo> +g
<seb128> Kaleo, yw ;-)
<Kaleo> seb128, same code base?
<Kaleo> seb128, (it should be the same code base)
<seb128> Kaleo, yes, though we might not be fully converged this cycle
<Kaleo> seb128, oki doki
 * Kaleo is fully converged
<seb128> ;-)
 * Kaleo works with desktop, laptop, tv, phones and tablet
<seb128> We hope to get there as well ;-)
<seb128> cyphermox, ido fix merged
<cyphermox> thx
<cyphermox> kicked off a build just now
<seb128> cyphermox, thanks!
<seb128> tjaalton, mlankhorst: what does "merged" means for xorg? e.g where are http://lists.x.org/archives/xorg-devel/2013-November/039228.html merged (they don't seem to be in the xserver git line) ... also, can we get those fixes backported to trusty?
<seb128> ChrisTownsend, ^ hey, just for info
<seb128> tjaalton, mlankhorst: that's needed for https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1171342
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1171342 in xorg-server (Ubuntu) "mouse scroll wheel not working in gedit & System Monitor" [Medium,Triaged]
<ChrisTownsend> seb128: Hey, yeah, thanks.  I guess you saw I tried those patches on my test machine and they fix the issue(s).
<seb128> ChrisTownsend, yes, thanks for testing those! I'm glad that's fixed for the LTS
<ChrisTownsend> seb128: Yeah, me too.  Any chance for Saucy SRU?
<seb128> chrisccoulson, let's wait to get some trusty feedback to make sure there are no regressions first, then why not
<seb128> ups
<seb128> ChrisTownsend, ^
<seb128> chrisccoulson, sorry :p
<ChrisTownsend> lol, ok, sure, sounds good.
<tjaalton> seb128: input stuff is first merged in peter's tree, then via a pull request to git master/stable
<seb128> tjaalton, ok, that explains it, thanks
<seb128> tjaalton, can we get those commits backported? ;-)
<tjaalton> added a tag so it's at least on our radar
<seb128> thanks
<larsu> seb128: awesome :)
<robert_ancell> seb128, still around?
<seb128> robert_ancell, hey, but just going for dinner, I'm back in ~30 min
<robert_ancell> seb128, np
<seb128> so feel free to ask/wait for that
<robert_ancell> seb128, what appears to be happening in your case is you're switching to a user who has xfce configured as their session but you appear to have uninstalled xfce. LightDM then is not correctly handling the failure case
<robert_ancell> but I'd like to confirm you have xfce.desktop missing
<seb128> robert_ancell, hey, I though about that this morning, that's another bug I think (I happened to test xfce yesterday for gtkheaderbar support in non gnome-shell environements)
<seb128> robert_ancell, I can get another log if you want by just opening/closing a guest session
<robert_ancell> sure
<seb128> robert_ancell, am I the only one to get the issue with guest sessions, really? ;-)
<robert_ancell> I haven't updated to trusty yet, I will check later today
<seb128> robert_ancell, did you try to start a few of those/go back to your user/start again?
<seb128> haha
<seb128> but you are running 1.9?
<robert_ancell> Not right at the moment, but I was at one point
<seb128> robert_ancell, ok, let's see if you get the issue once you upgrade, it seems to be only me so far so maybe it's a local issue ... or maybe I'm the only one running trusty and using guest session regularly ;-)
<robert_ancell> it's probably the latter!
<seb128> though I looked at the commit log and didn't stop any obvious candidate commit for the issue :/
<robert_ancell> no, me neither
<robert_ancell> seb128, so regarding the g-s-d schemas - we need to split those into a separate package then - gnome-settings-daemon-schemas?
<seb128> cyphermox, how is the ido landing going?
<robert_ancell> I'm not sure that upstream does consider them a stable API though
<seb128> robert_ancell, is there any divergence at the moment ?
<robert_ancell> no
<robert_ancell> just we need them separately packages
<robert_ancell> packaged
<seb128> why?
<seb128> if they have the same content
<seb128> oh, I see what you mean
<seb128> I was still set on you suggesting renaming the keys
<seb128> yeah, having a separate binary seems fine
<robert_ancell> seb128, you were against renaming right?
<seb128> robert_ancell, "were"? still are yes :p
<robert_ancell> were and are and always will be :)
<seb128> lol
<seb128> I would make g-s-d and u-s-s conflict and let GNOME remix decide which one they want to use...
<robert_ancell> nah, that's lame
<seb128> robert_ancell, let's say it's suboptimal
<robert_ancell> yep
<seb128> but renaming is non trivial and has side effects
<seb128> which means it has a cost for us and most of our users
<seb128> robert_ancell, well, anyway, what part of the renaming are we arguing about?
<robert_ancell> seb128, the schemas
<seb128> we think we can rename most files, share the dbus service and schemas?
<robert_ancell> that's what I'm trying
<seb128> ok, that seems fine to me
<seb128> we can think more about the schemas issue if it turns out to be an issue in practice
<seb128> but I think it's not going to be that much of an issue
<seb128> robert_ancell, do you have an opinion on the naming?
<robert_ancell> seb128, I think it might be a future issue, but we should try just sharing the schemas for now and check closely what upstream does
<seb128> right, +1 on that
<robert_ancell> We might just be able to keep the schemas patched with old keys if necessary
<seb128> what about the g-s-d binary itself?
<robert_ancell> I think the renamed one should work fine
<seb128> we can't give the name to the GNOME remix guys
<seb128> do we keep it?
<robert_ancell> I don't want to have two packages containing the same files. That's ugly
<robert_ancell> which name?
<seb128> or do we do e.g ubuntu-system-daemon and gnome-system-daemon-stock
<seb128> system->settings
<seb128> (doh, ubuntu-system-settings namespace colision :p)
<robert_ancell> we should leave the gnome one unchanged
<seb128> we can't
<seb128> that would screw upgrades for unity users
<seb128> the upgrader/apt would insist on pulling in the GNOME version
<seb128> we need a transition for the lts, then we can rename back if we want
<seb128> like a dummy depending on new-name-ubuntu | new-name-gnome
<robert_ancell> why would it? Wouldn't the thing that provides unity.desktop just depend on the new settings daemon
<seb128> because you use precise and have gnome-settings-daemon installed
<seb128> and you upgrade and apt is going to want to upgrade that package
<seb128> it's not going to be easy to teach it to uninstall it to install ubuntu-settings-daemon
<seb128> you can try but I bet money that you are going to get all sort of upgrade weirdness reports
<seb128> history is not on your side in any case ;-)
<seb128> (we had cases like that and we did end up doing the rename and dummy solution)
<robert_ancell> seb128, it doesn't matter if you have g-s-d installed - we wont be using it
<seb128> well, it's a bit suboptimal to have it staying around then
<seb128> you also need to ensure you get u-s-d installed
<seb128> that makes we want system images for desktop btw...
<robert_ancell> seb128, yes, system images makes this all a lot easier
<robert_ancell> seb128, there's always left behind packages on upgrade. You have to do an apt-get autoremove to get rid of them
<seb128> robert_ancell, well, in any case, we can test it your way first and change if needed. It's really an issue if both packages conflicts and apt has to pick one, I guess we can make it work with cases where g-s-d is a leftover there, it stills feels wrong, but it's not so much of an issue either...
<seb128> robert_ancell, did you want more review/testing from me? With vUDS and other topics ongoing I didn't manage to look at your work yet, I just replied to the email
<robert_ancell> seb128, I've been away so nothing more to report yet
<seb128> well, I don't know if you wanted a review on the current vcs work
<seb128> I still plan to try that, I just didn't manage to do it yet
<seb128> robert_ancell, g-s-d renaming seems doable in any case, g-c-c is a bit less easy due to the gnome-desktop depends
<robert_ancell> right
<seb128> one step at the time I guess...
<seb128> I wonder if we can just add back the old functions/apis to gnome-desktop under another namespace
<seb128> to carry them over until we stop needed those
<seb128> robert_ancell, btw, do you still read upstream gnome-calculator bugs?
<robert_ancell> yes :)
<robert_ancell> having fun there?
<seb128> robert_ancell, yeah, I'm done though
<seb128> robert_ancell, I blame you for letting them take over an age old project and destroy it...
<robert_ancell> I think we just have to carry patches for things like that - long term it doesn't matter and short term it's not too hard to patch
<seb128> right
<seb128> well, it just means those apps are going to stop being used out of GNOME
<seb128> I don't care much for us, this cycle/LTS is not an issue
<robert_ancell> that's the direction that's occurring anyway
<seb128> then we are going to replace them
<seb128> but it still feels like that most app developers didn't think about that
<robert_ancell> the concept of a general "free desktop app" is pretty much dead
<seb128> they go "oh, nice, GNOME integration"
<seb128> right
<seb128> I went to the same conclusion
<seb128> the same way that iOS and android need different version of your apps, the different "linux desktops" are going to need different versions
<robert_ancell> developers used to try and maximise users, but now they're focussing on platforms. Which makes better apps for those platforms so I'm not opposed to the concept
<seb128> yeah, me neither
<seb128> I'm just not sure app dev who are porting their app to the new GNOME look realize that
<seb128> well, atm most of those ports are GNOME core components
<seb128> it's going to be less obvious for apps out of gnome.org
<seb128> e.g what pidgin, inkscape, shotwell (though those moved to gnome infra), etc are going to do
<robert_ancell> I suspect the big players like inkscape will support multiple platforms with priority given to user base
<robert_ancell> these projects already tend to support windows anyway
<seb128> right
<seb128> ok, moving to the TV, might be back in a bit with the laptop if I get bored ;-)
<seb128> see you tomorrow otherwise
<seb128> bye
<rsalveti> larsu: confirmed bug 1253810, not sure if only a problem in the indicator though
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1253810 in indicator-messages (Ubuntu) "Messages in Incoming not always display the correct date and content" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1253810
<larsu> rsalveti: interesting. I'll have a look, thanks
<tkamppeter> \\\\\\\\\
#ubuntu-desktop 2013-11-27
<pitti> Bonjour tout le monde
<duflu> tout le monde: bonjour ;)
<larsu> good morning everyone
<Mirv> mlankhorst: thanks, LTS-S working great here :) (with one workaround I needed related to the understandable upstream changes)
<Laney> morning
<Laney> happyaron: ok, doing
<seb128> good morning desktopers!
<seb128> Laney, hey
<Laney> hey seb128
<mlankhorst> Mirv: well if the same workaround would have been needed for saucy, great. :P
<mlankhorst> oh grr, I need to figure out a bug on that one still
<happyaron> Laney: thanks, :)
<Laney> fonts-droid will need promoting first though
<Laney> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/fonts-android/+bug/1249132
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1249132 in fonts-android (Ubuntu) "[MIR] fonts-android" [Undecided,Fix committed]
<happyaron> mterry said he did that, and just waiting it to being seeded. but I have no idea where we are.
<Laney> seb128: could you do the honours?
<seb128> Laney, sure
<Laney> merci
<Mirv> mlankhorst: yeah, it would have, it's upstream change and I just finished a blog post on it too http://losca.blogspot.fi/2013/11/workaround-for-setting-full-rgb-when.html
<mlankhorst> ah :p
<seb128> Laney, done
<Laney> \o/
 * didrocks feels guilty
<didrocks> seb128: do you know who is active on indicator-messages?
<seb128> didrocks, what did you do again?
<didrocks> I'm going to ask for something!
<didrocks> ;)
<seb128> lol
<seb128> larsu, HIDE
<didrocks> roh, you made the connection too quick :p
<seb128> didrocks, is that the "timestamp and content is sometime wrong on the phone"?
<didrocks> basically we have that one: bug #1253810
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1253810 in indicator-messages (Ubuntu) "Messages in Incoming not always display the correct date and content" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1253810
<didrocks> yep
<seb128> I had a feeling that would come our way soon :p
<seb128> did that start with https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/indicator-messages/13.10.1+14.04.20131125-0ubuntu1 ?
<seb128> no
<seb128> report is from 21
<didrocks> seb128: some people mentionned image 27 at least, so yeah, a little bit older
<didrocks> not sure if it was a hidden bug which is now easier to report
<seb128> weird, the indicator didn't change before 10-29 and 11-25 though
<didrocks> yep, can be as well something else in the pipe
<didrocks> rsalveti told that he checked the ofono side though
<didrocks> (and messaging app is fine)
<didrocks> so not a service side
 * didrocks hopes for a trivial bug
<seb128> it would be more trivial to debug with a reproducer
<seb128> do you have an easy way to trigger it?
<didrocks> agreed, I have no more information than the bug report
<didrocks> it was mentionned in the meeting, without the regression tag (as my comment and tag addition)
<didrocks> seems people were upset (what ogra_ told) about it, but it wasn't raised :)
<ogra_> seb128, i still see the 12h/24h issue (once the panel clock loads my clock goes to 12h ...), it smells a bit like these are related
<seb128> ogra_, that sounds like a bug in the sdk/some of the qml component
<seb128> didrocks, ^
<larsu> ya, I can't think of a change in the indicator itself that might trigger that
<ogra_> well to me it looks like the clock backend fires up before ~/.pam-environment is read ... but i dont know how that would be technically possible
<didrocks> rsalveti: received 10 sms, got the issue 4 times
<didrocks> from the irlogs
<larsu> whoever reproduces it next, please ping me before interacting with the mesage
<larsu> *message
<seb128> rsalveti, ^ when you wake up
<seb128> we need help debugging from somebody who gets the issue
<ogra_> or Ursinha ^^^
<didrocks> ogra_: reading the backlog, people don't seem to have been as upset or doing buzz around it as you told doing the meeting :)
<didrocks> seb128: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2013/11/26/%23ubuntu-ci-eng.html#t20:45 FYI
<seb128> didrocks, thanks
<seb128> seems like Ursinha and rsalveti have it easily
<ogra_> didrocks, did i say that ? i only said ricardo complained about another regression
<seb128> so they can probably help us debug when they get up
<didrocks> ogra_: well, you clearly used the word "upset" in the hangout, so I found it quite strong and thought people raised alarms :)
<ogra_> (probably complained was the wrong word, sorry)
<didrocks> ogra_: no worry, just be careful with words, people can imagine other things :)
<Kaleo> seb128, can install the indicator-datetime?
<Kaleo> +I
<seb128> Kaleo, the ido fix is in, so you should be fine yes
<Kaleo> seb128, thanks!
<seb128> yw
<seb128> Kaleo, just for info, we have a less frequent issue that is pending landing (https://code.launchpad.net/~larsu/ido/remove-idle-source/+merge/196841)
<seb128> but I've seen that one only once
<Kaleo> ok
<Kaleo> so if I see my cpu 100%
<Kaleo> I know why :)
<ogra_> yeah, you clearly need more CPU then :)
<seb128> brb
<Laney> xnox: just uploaded mythtv, want to wrangle the transitional package or whatever it is for samba?
<xnox> Laney: yeap. was poking it already.
<Laney> neat
<Laney> then it'll just be tbird
<Laney> \o/
<xnox> Laney: thanks a lot for your help.
<Laney> np
<Laney> looking forward to seeing it in
<xnox> well, it will have to go through new...
<xnox> cause imho samba*4 dummy transitional packages should be in src:samba, and src:samba4 dropped.
<seb128> larsu, overlay scrollbars on gtk2 are happy again with your new commit ;-)
<Laney> I'm sure you are well connected enough to make that happen :P
<xnox> Laney: LOL =)
<Laney> oops
<Laney> just rm -rf * in my home directory
<Laney> luckily caught it before it went very far ...
<seb128> urg
<seb128> I tend to try to avoid that command, I usually go down a directory and rm subdir/...
<Laney> yeah...
<Laney> I thought I was in temp/
<Laney> oh well, most of the stuff it deleted is synced anyway
<sil2100> seb128: hello! :D
<seb128> sil2100, hey, how are you?
<sil2100> seb128: fine, thanks :) And you?
<seb128> I'm good thanks
<didrocks> seb128: runnnnnnnn :)
<seb128> didrocks, yeah, I was thinking about that ;-)
<didrocks> seb128: I think you saw that, but indicator-messages is out of the loop, seems Unity8 :)
<seb128> didrocks, no, I didn't, but good to read
<seb128> larsu, ^
<sil2100> seb128: I'm not sure if this was preNEWed already or not, since we were doing a packaging review like a few months ago, but could you take a look at lp:unity-voice ?
<seb128> didrocks, was it again Saviq making bugs and trying to blame it on us?
<seb128> sil2100, sure
<sil2100> seb128: there's one copyright mismatch that I'll fix (one of the autopilot files has an invalid LGPL header), but besides that it looks fine
<sil2100> seb128: thank you!
<Saviq> seb128, *making* them? it's not a regression :P
<Saviq> seb128, and I haven't seen steps to reproduce yet :P
<didrocks> seb128: completely all their fault! :)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, hey, so turned out that the addon porting was non trivial?  or did you get lazy and just didn't want to do it? ;-)
<seb128> didrocks, btw tb got uploaded, can we get an ido landing for the other fix?
<chrisccoulson> seb128, the latter for now. i'll have a proper look at it when i have a bit more time ;)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, k
<Laney> ooh, getting close
<didrocks> seb128: sure, Mirv: mind taking care of that? ^
<Laney> turns out my rm accident wiped out a load of config files
<Laney> which then synced them to the cloud and deleted them from my desktop too
 * Laney coughs
<didrocks> Laney: syncing to the cloud is not a backup! :)
<didrocks> but you had deja-dup right? ;)
<Laney> I did have not-too-old copies
<Laney> of most of them, not every single one
<Laney> but it's alright, got the important ones back
<seb128> Laney, :-(
<Laney> $ mv configs zzzconfigs ;-)
<larsu> seb128: ah, cool
<larsu> did you ping dednick about it?
<seb128> larsu, no, but I guess they are aware of the issue/on it since didrocks said it's a bug on their side
<larsu> ah okay
 * larsu goes back to his pizza then
<Mirv> didrocks: so, ido/trusty + unity7 AP (what indicators stack check job would do if it'd work at the moment) for it?
<didrocks> Mirv: I don't think ido is used on touch
<didrocks> seb128: right? ^
<didrocks> Mirv: so yeah, only a rebuild with the indicators stack check tests
<seb128> larsu, hum, pizza, me wants!
<seb128> didrocks, Mirv: no, it's not, it's a set of GTK widgets
<didrocks> POA
<didrocks> Pizza On Air
<seb128> didrocks, is that like the virtual beer at vUDS?
<Mirv> didrocks: unfortunately the check part doesn't work because of evolution migration (or at least didn't on Monday), so I'll run them manually if needed
 * seb128 wants real pizza and beers!
<larsu> seb128: beer for lunch? Are you German? :P
 * Mirv building ido in daily-build
<didrocks> seb128: yeah, but more solid :p
<didrocks> Mirv: ok ;)
<seb128> larsu, well, some things just match ;-)
<seb128> (the other option is soda+pizza, but that would makes me feel american, I prefer being german ;-)
<larsu> great, now I feel bad for having water with my pizza
<Mirv> I'm noticing btw now the same python problem I had on device on desktop :S "... module incorrectly imported from [path]. Expected [the same path]. . Is this module globally installed?"
<seb128> larsu, what, are you french?!
 * seb128 hugs larsu
<larsu> haha
<didrocks> Mirv: what have you done? ;)
<Mirv> didrocks: I have zero idea :) filed bug #1255505
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1255505 in autopilot (Ubuntu) "autopilot crashed with ImportError in _find_tests(): 'test_switcher' module incorrectly imported from '/usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/unity/tests'. Expected '/usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/unity/tests'. Is this module globally installed?" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1255505
<Mirv> because apport kindly offered it
<didrocks> ;)
<sil2100> hm, on the desktop, what component exactly does control the desktop wallpaper?
<didrocks> sil2100: nautilus displays it
<didrocks> waow, Microsoft starts to be agressive (maybe feeling that this christmas a lot of people will buy a chromebook): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-y2mqoDjQXI&noredirect=1
<didrocks> (funny though that they post the video on â¦ youtube :p)
<Mirv> bingtube would reach so much more people and all
<didrocks> heh, sure! :)
<larsu> didrocks: that's hilarious
<didrocks> larsu: I find it funny as well, if you take that with a big grain of salt :)
<larsu> I have the feeling that whole campaign is worse for microsoft than it is for google
<larsu> "scroogled", seriously?
<didrocks> larsu: knowing that for being on the chromebook, all chrome apps need to work offline by default for instance, so their main argument are totally FUD :)
<didrocks> larsu: yeah, the "scroogled" term is awesome, I recognize that :)
<didrocks> "see this logo, it means it's not a real computer"
<didrocks> :)
<larsu> ha, yeah
 * ogra_ googles bingtube
<larsu> also, I don't think people buying those think that there's windows on them
<ogra_> (for the irony)
<larsu> I think they're buying them because there's _no_ windows on them
<didrocks> right, I agree with you
<didrocks> ogra_: argh, it seems it's not an url safe for work :)
<ogra_> lol
<ogra_> didrocks, did you know that our new sensor handling service is calles usensord ... try that one ;)
<ogra_> oh, it changed !
<didrocks> ogra_: my whole first page are only launchpad and google plus results
<ogra_> yeah, great
<didrocks> from a guy, "Michaelâ¦ something?" ;)
<ogra_> it used to find a lot chinese portn
<didrocks> interestingâ¦
<ogra_> "ucensored"
<didrocks> oh right
<didrocks> ah
<seb128> larsu, oh, fcitx preferences UI has the same issue than update-manager with 3.10 (e.g a list reduced to one line rather than taking the space it should)
<larsu> fcitx?
<seb128> larsu, the new ibus :p
<seb128> larsu, you clearly need to learn more about input, you should take over attente's job for a cycle, just trade or something ;-)
 * larsu runs
<seb128> didrocks, I like how the video get 3 times more thumbs down
<larsu> seb128: hm, works fine for me. You mean the window that pops up when you click on indicator/configure?
<seb128> larsu, no, fcitx is another input framework, which is not ibus
<seb128> larsu, that's what Kylin is using and they would like us to switch to it
<larsu> right, I just installed that
<larsu> and it gives me an app indicator
<seb128> right
<seb128> click the configure entry
<larsu> yep
<didrocks> seb128: yeah, bad commercials are punished, I have faith again!
<seb128> the input tab (the first one)
<larsu> weirdness, it works for me. Are you on 3.10.3?
<seb128> larsu, well, for me the first tab has its language list being one line at the top
<seb128> then lot of empty space
<seb128> then one line at the bottom
<larsu> seb128: http://i.imgur.com/EGuJeSB.png
<seb128> larsu, let me try again, I'm on 3.8.8 atm, was testing the new version before uploading and testing that scrollbars work on 3.8
<larsu> ah right
<seb128> larsu, well, 3.8 works, I was having the issue yesterday on 3.10.4
<larsu> I still have the issue in update-manager
<seb128> larsu, oh, sorry
<seb128> larsu, click the "+" at the bottom
<mdeslaur> seb128: hey, if you do decide to stay on ibus...can we at least kill the stupid notification on first login?
<seb128> that's the dialog which has the issue
<larsu> seb128: ah, got the same. Thanks
<seb128> mdeslaur, the one saying that your key migrated? I wish I was able to get that one, people mentioned it but it just doesn't happen here
<seb128> larsu, yw
<Mirv> didrocks: FYI it was python 2.7 update that breaks autopilot for me. downgrading to 2.7.5-8ubuntu4 made it possible for me to run the tests (and sooin release ido)
<mdeslaur> seb128: that's odd, I see it in all my vms, and I see it on the laptop I just installed yesterday
<seb128> mdeslaur, I don't have fresh installs, but I do use guest sessions a lot and it doesn't happen there
<seb128> mdeslaur, I guess I need to try a fresh install in a vm, that's annoying as a testcase though
<didrocks> Mirv: maybe you should ping doko about it
<mdeslaur> seb128: how weird, the guest session in my vm doesn't show it
<seb128> mdeslaur, see! ;-)
<Mirv> didrocks: ok
<mdeslaur> seb128: I think my vm just got scared of you and stopped showing it
<seb128> mdeslaur, good, so I fixed it, you own me a beer, I can deal with that ;-)
<mdeslaur> lol
<Mirv> seb128: ido uploaded
<seb128> Mirv, thanks!
<didrocks> Mirv: argh, I have another script broken by this python upload as well
<mdeslaur> seb128: what does ibus-ui-gtk3 do?
<seb128> mdeslaur, I think that's what gives you the "predictions"
<seb128> mdeslaur, e.g http://hanboyang.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/ibus.jpeg
<seb128> not sure though
<seb128> happyaron probably knows better
<rsalveti> larsu: what do you need for bug 1253810
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1253810 in unity8 (Ubuntu) "Messages in Incoming not always display the correct date and content" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1253810
<happyaron> mdeslaur: basically the small windows that displays the candidate list.
<larsu> rsalveti: apparently somebody already figured out that it is an issue in unity8 and not the indicator. I'm afraid I can't help much anymore...
<seb128> larsu, well, it seems you are involved in the unity8 branch linked to this bug as well ;-)
<seb128> but yeah
<seb128> rsalveti, check with Saviq I guess, maybe you can try the unity8 fix in there
<rsalveti> hm, cool
<larsu> hm, are you guys sure that's the issue?
<seb128> larsu, I've no idea, just relaying what Saviq and didrocks said
<seb128> Saviq, ^?
 * ogra_ still thinks it is related to the werid clock behavior that shows when the datetime indicator starts 
<ogra_> ... which reminds me ... to filnally file a bug about that :P
<larsu> ogra_: that's unlikely
<larsu> but please file a bug
<larsu> :)
<larsu> rsalveti: do you have one of those messages in the menu right now
<larsu> ?
<Ursinha> seb128, ogra_, if you're talking about the indicator bug that I filed, it's easily reproducible
<Saviq> larsu, no I'm not sure that's the issue, but then I'm not sure unity8 should even care - as in why couldn't the indicator give up preformatted strings?
<rsalveti> larsu: nops, but can try to reproduce
<ogra_> Ursinha, the one that restets my clocks on the system ?
<Ursinha> I'm seeing those since r27, and it's like 4 out of 10 msgs
<ogra_> (from 24h to 12h)
<seb128> Ursinha, yeah, if you have it, larsu might want to have some details
<Saviq> larsu, it's what we're doing for i18n - strings come pre-translated, I'm not sure why date formatting should be different
<Ursinha> ogra_, no, I haven't noticed that... but I can pay more attention to see if I find it too
<ogra_> Ursinha, does brazil use 24h time format ?
<ogra_> i think it is closely tied to your locale
<Ursinha> ogra_, afaik there's not really a standard here
<larsu> Saviq: so that we don't have to send a dbus message every minute
<Ursinha> I never use brazilian portuguese or brazilian locale for anything
<larsu> or every second for people who like seeing seconds
<ogra_> Ursinha, well, the locale setting sets the display format for the time
<Saviq> larsu, maybe, yeah
<larsu> Saviq: tbh, that's not an issue with the current design of the messaging menu (it shows absolute times). It used to be relative times, like on the desktop. And the time indicator has the issue anyway
<Ursinha> btw I'm having a transient (it seems) issue that I click on icons but applications don't open
<Ursinha> Saviq, is that your stuff?
<larsu> whoever has this issue right now, please execute `gdbus call --session --dest com.canonical.indicator.messages  --object-path /com/canonical/indicator/messages/phone  --method org.gtk.Menus.Start [0,1]`
<larsu> and tell me when the message should have arrived :)
<Ursinha> once I'm able to open applications I'll test that for you
<larsu> thanks
<ogra_> bug 1255530
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1255530 in indicator-datetime (Ubuntu) "system clock gets forcefully set to 12h (AM/PM) as soon as the panel clock starts" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1255530
<Ursinha> I don't want to reboot and miss the bug that I seem to have here right now
<Saviq> Ursinha, depends, can you see interesting things in unity8.log?
<larsu> ogra_: cool bug. What does `gsettings get com.canonical.indicator.datetime time-format?` give you?
<ogra_> (process:4391): dconf-CRITICAL **: unable to create directory '/root/.cache/dconf': Read-only file system.  dconf will not work properly.
<ogra_> 'locale-default'
<rsalveti> running as root?
<larsu> ogra_: no as root please..
<ogra_> (would probably be nice to tell dconf to not try to use /root/ :) )
<larsu> dconf should find out if its running as root and bail?
<Ursinha> Saviq, nothing is added to unity8 log when I try to open applications
<ogra_> no, it should just not try to create a user db for the root user
<Ursinha> but I tried to open them via shell and:
<ogra_> 'locale-default' is the output btw
<Ursinha> phablet@ubuntu-phablet:~$ upstart-app-launch webbrowser-app
<Ursinha> ** (process:11378): WARNING **: Unable to connect to the Upstart Session: Empty address ''
<ogra_> Ursinha, how did you become phabletz
<ogra_> (dont use su !)
<Ursinha> ogra_, how should I do that? :)
<popey> sudo -u phablet -i
<larsu> ogra_: okay that sounds good. I'll ping charles about this bug when he's up.
<ogra_> sudo -u phablet -i
<popey> \o/
<ogra_> popey, wins
<Saviq> ssh phablet@ ;P
<ogra_> :)
<Ursinha> thanks :) but same error
<Saviq> sounds like the upstart session got b0rked
<popey> you need to specify the APP_ID bit don't you?
<Saviq> popey, webbrowser-app is no click
<Ursinha> used to work before
<popey> ah
<ogra_> phablet@ubuntu-phablet:~$ upstart-app-launch webbrowser-app
<ogra_> phablet@ubuntu-phablet:~$
<ogra_> works fine for me
<rsalveti> me 2
<Saviq> ogra_, Ursinha yeah, your upstart session got borked somehow
<popey> me 4
<Ursinha> ogra_, I'm not saying the bug is permanent, I'm saying it's happening right now
<Saviq> me 8
<seb128> me 128
<Ursinha> lol
<popey> hah
<rsalveti> :P
<seb128> ;-)
<Ursinha> seb128 won
<seb128> \o/
<Saviq> seb128, you can't count :P
<Ursinha> but I'm reporting a transient issue, people
<Saviq> lots!
<seb128> Saviq, who cares, I won :p
<popey> Ursinha: can you start webbrowser from the icon?
<Saviq> popey, no, that was the first thing she tried
<Ursinha> popey, no, as I said, I can't open
<popey> ah
<ogra_> Ursinha, well, i never had it not working before ... did you restart your session but did not re-login the user ?
<Ursinha> thanks Saviq :)
<Ursinha> ogra_, I did nothing, that stopped working and I came here to ask directions to debug that
<Ursinha> because I didn't want to dismiss the bug
<ogra_> well if your unity session crashed, the session env vars will be updated in ~/.bashrc
<ogra_> if you dont log in again the vars are wrong
<ogra_> there ios sadly no sane way around this without making unity kick you out of the shell when it restarts or some such
<rsalveti> ogra_: hm, thought unity8 would use the same env if restarted
<Ursinha> ogra_, what should I look for in the logs?
<ogra_> rsalveti, well, lightdm sets new vars
<ogra_> Ursinha, try a second adb session and see if it works from there
<ogra_> if it does, then it is this ... well, ... i dont like to call it bug ... its a design flaw
<ogra_> rsalveti, it cant, there is a new dbus address and a new upstart session ... the env vars get other values
<Ursinha> no man, I have like five different shells and none work
<mdeslaur> seb128, happyaron: how about something like this? http://paste.ubuntu.com/6484307/
<ogra_> and there is no way to tell bash to reaload it from outside the shell session
<ogra_> *reload
<seb128> mdeslaur, where is prev_version coming from?
<rsalveti> Ursinha: in theory the upstart session address is located at the UPSTART_SESSION env var
<mdeslaur> seb128: gsettings I believe
<seb128> mdeslaur, where is that not happening in a guest session?
<mdeslaur> seb128: it is happening for me in a guest session on real hardware
<seb128> not here
<mdeslaur> seb128: I think the vm screen isn't coming up fast enough to see the actual notification
<seb128> seems a bit random :/
<ogra_> Ursinha, rsalveti http://paste.ubuntu.com/6484317/ are the code snippÃ¼ets in question
<ogra_> -Ã¼
<Ursinha> rsalveti, UPSTART_SESSION is empty
<seb128> mdeslaur, in any case the patch looks fine to me
<Ursinha> how did that happen?
<mdeslaur> seb128: ok, let me send it upstream, file a bug, etc. thanks
<seb128> mdeslaur, thank you!
<rsalveti> ogra_: right
<rsalveti> let me try killing my unity8 to see
<ogra_> Ursinha, even if you enter a new adb session and use "sudo -u phablet -i"
<Ursinha> ogra_, yes sir
<ogra_> can you check if /etc/profile.d/ still has the dbus and upstart snippets ?
<Ursinha> sure
<rsalveti> hahah, my screen is now flashing after killing unity8
<ogra_> they usually get processed by sudo-ing
<Ursinha> lol
<ogra_> rsalveti, how did you "kill" it ?
<rsalveti> kill -9
<ogra_> ugh
<Ursinha> ogra_, upstart part is there
<ogra_> use upstart
<rsalveti> ogra_: well, I'm simulating a crash
<rsalveti> I don't want to nicely kill it
<ogra_> it wont clean up after itself if you just kill it
<rsalveti> :-)
<ogra_> Ursinha, dbus not ?
<rsalveti> I want to see if unity8 would recover after a crash
 * ogra_ definitely has it here on r31
<Ursinha> ogra_, but if it dies it won't clean up after itself, so it's a bug
<rsalveti> we should probably have a test case for that
<Ursinha> ogra_, yes, both are here
<ogra_> Ursinha, well, upstart should clean up
<Ursinha> ogra_, but if it dies... as rsalveti said, it should be tested
<rsalveti> Ursinha: what do you have with /sbin/initctl list-sessions
<Ursinha> rsalveti, that's what I was looking right now
<ogra_> rsalveti, nothing if UPSTART_SESSION is empty :)
<rsalveti> well, just confirming :-)
<ogra_> initctl needs that var
<rsalveti> maybe a random output lol
<Ursinha> yeah, nothing
<Ursinha> you never know hahaha
<rsalveti> so it could be that the session died and unity8 restarted without a valid session var
<ogra_> no
<ogra_> then nothing would start
<rsalveti> but not sure if unity8 would open without a valid session
<rsalveti> yeah
<ogra_> unity itself might, but nothing else
<rsalveti> guess the session just died then
<Ursinha> the session died, wtf
<ogra_> right
<ogra_> and properly restarted
<Ursinha> okay, so this is a bug as it it should recover properly
<Ursinha> right?
<ogra_> it obviously did
<rsalveti> hm, rebooted and now I don't have the indicator clock
<ogra_> else you wouldnt have a UI
<ogra_> rsalveti, yeah, longstanding bug
<rsalveti> argh
<ogra_> it disappears randomly
<ogra_> i was told that also happens on desktop
<ogra_> (havent seen it here though)
<rsalveti> oh, hm
<Ursinha> ogra_, obviously recovered properly? if it did I should have my apps opening here haha
<ogra_> Ursinha, do the apps open if you tap them ?
<Ursinha> haha, man, no
<Ursinha> that was the first thing I said :)
<ogra_> oh
<rsalveti> nops, there's no session
<ogra_> you didnt say that
<Ursinha> <Ursinha> btw I'm having a transient (it seems) issue that I click on icons but applications don't open
<ogra_> yeah, i see it now
<rsalveti> Saviq: ogra_: should unity8 be able to recover itself if I kill it with 'kill -9'?
<ogra_> xnox, any idea how to debug such a case ?
<Saviq> rsalveti, upstart will restart it, yes
<ogra_> should
<ogra_> :P
<rsalveti> right, so wonder if mir is now causing issues here
<rsalveti> my screen is flashing again
<rsalveti> tested with mako
 * ogra_ doubts it is mir
<rsalveti> the new unity8 is running it seems
<rsalveti> yeah, probably
<rsalveti> I/ServiceManager(  704): service 'display.qservice' died
<rsalveti> causing the qcom component to die
<ogra_> i guess thats fallout
<rsalveti> so specific to mako
<rsalveti> logcat is going crazy here
<xnox> (disappearning indicators are/will be solved soon, each indicator will be managed by session init / respawned)
<seb128> ogra_, we fixed the indicator lock issues in saucy a month ago, it would be interesting to see if it still happen with the trusty-proposed version (could be a different bug)
<ogra_> so doing the same kill -9 here i see that it wants to start but approt is keeping the system to busy
<rsalveti> ogra_: when did we get a mir update? want to test with an older image
<seb128> ogra_, yeah for a world where devel serie is slower than SRUs btw :p
<ogra_> (load of 5 after a few seconds)
<ogra_> seb128, lock or clock ?
<xnox> ogra_: not sure what debug advise i can give you for unity8/mir.
<rsalveti> xnox: how to debug when the user session died?
<ogra_> xnox, for upstart user sessions
<seb128> ogra_, lock (they were not showing in the panel because the service is hitting a glib deadlock on init)
<ogra_> seb128, ah
<ogra_> seb128, i'm running image r31 and there should be nothing in proposed anymore
<ogra_> rsalveti, so clearly apport is heavilly hogging my mako here
<seb128> ogra_, indicator-datetime is, it's part of the e-d-s/samba/libav transitions
<ogra_> load went above 6 now
<xnox> rsalveti: by user session - you mean session init or logind session? cause it's quite valid to be thrown out, but session init still running. Check ps tree and see which dangling processes there are and if they are paranted to any session inits or not.
<ogra_> seb128, ah
<xnox> session init will try to respawn.
<ogra_> so it is held back, k
<seb128> yeah
<seb128> should be cleared soon hopefully
<ogra_> k
<xnox> rsalveti: if there are any session inits left, one can get/guess the session init token and investigate running commands. etc. If it really is dead, increase debugging to "--debug" on the session-init, reproduce, check logs why that happened.
<xnox> most likely something is killing / terminating it.
<xnox> i'm not sure how the session-init is started on the phone, but e.g. mir/unity8 crash shouldn't stop the user-session. Instead they should respawn / restarted into an existing one.
<rsalveti> xnox: in Ursinha's case /sbin/initctl list-sessions shows nothing
<rsalveti> seems the upstart user session died, and she can't open any other app anymore
<ogra_> xnox, the session runs but UPSTART_SESSION is unset
<ogra_> xnox, so apps dont start (since they use upstart-app-launch)
<ogra_> xnox, the "unity8 not respawning" issue is a differet one
<ogra_> rsalveti, iirfc i heard someone talk about the mir socket ... might be that it is still open when unity tries to start anew
<xnox> rsalveti: Ursinha: can you get session-init & unity8 processes environment variables from /proc/*/environ ? the intersting ones are UPSTART_SESSION & DBUS_SESSION_ADDRESS
<xnox> and see if they are inconsistent.
<ogra_> terminate called after throwing an instance of 'boost::exception_detail::clone_impl<boost::exception_detail::error_info_injector<boost::system::system_error> >'
<ogra_>   what():  bind: Address already in use
<xnox> (and also check the dbus address that is stored somewhere under ~/.cache ~/.config)
<ogra_> aha, and there we go
<Ursinha> xnox,UPSTART_SESSION is empty
<xnox> =(
<ogra_> rsalveti, tail -f /home/phablet/.cache/upstart/unity8.log
<ogra_> rsalveti, watch it try toi respawn every second
<Ursinha> xnox, yep, that was the problem that we noticed because
<Ursinha> phablet@ubuntu-phablet:~$ upstart-app-launch webbrowser-app
<Ursinha> ** (process:12659): WARNING **: Unable to connect to the Upstart Session: Empty address ''
<ogra_> rsalveti, its the mir socket, i have seen that error msg before
<Ursinha> xnox, DBUS_SESSION_BUS_ADDRESS  points to a tmp folder
<Ursinha> that doesn't exist
<Ursinha> oops
<ogra_> rsalveti,  rm /var/run/user/32011/mir_socket
<ogra_> and see it start
<ogra_> Saviq, should we add a post-stop script to the upstart job to remove that file ?
<xnox> Ursinha: ls /run/user/1000/upstart/sessions/
<xnox> Ursinha: anything there?
<ogra_> xnox, not 1000
<ogra_> :)
<Ursinha> xnox, nope, no such file or directory
<ogra_> 32011
<xnox> Ursinha: well ok, $ ls $XDG_RUNTIME_DIR/upstart/sessions
<Ursinha> there's one file
<ogra_> should be the pid
<Ursinha> and in it there's something that should be the content of UPSTART_SESSION, I presume
<rsalveti> ogra_: oh, ok
<rsalveti> it might be the same issue in here
<rsalveti> let me check
<ogra_> phablet@ubuntu-phablet:~$ env |grep UPSTART
<ogra_> UPSTART_SESSION=unix:abstract=/com/ubuntu/upstart-session/32011/1826
<ogra_> Ursinha, ^^^
<xnox> Ursinha: correct, you should be able to do: UPSTART_SESSION=unix:abstract:..... initctl set-env --global UPSTART_SESSION=unix:abstract:.....
<rsalveti> ogra_: yeah, same issue
<xnox> Ursinha: this should re-export UPSTART_SESSION to all user-session process and things should start working again.
<rsalveti> ogra_: that's so annoying
<ogra_> rsalveti, right, i think a post-stop script would help
<xnox> Ursinha: but it is very confusing how session-init managed to loose it!
<Ursinha> xnox, okay, but why UPSTART_SESSION variable is empty? that's a bug, right?
<ogra_> yeah
<Saviq> ogra_, or pre-start, for that matter
<ogra_> Saviq, yeah, whatever fits best :)
<rsalveti> ogra_: actually, I got a different one
<xnox> Ursinha: yes, we should never loose that variable no-matter what. Ditto DBUS_SESSION_ADDRESS.
<rsalveti> terminate called after throwing an instance of 'boost::exception_detail::clone_impl<boost::exception_detail::error_info_injector<std::runtime_error> >'
<rsalveti>   what():  Could not unblank display
<ogra_> rsalveti, different what ?
<Saviq> rsalveti, press power
<ogra_> oh
<xnox> Ursinha: is there a way I can reproduce this?
<Saviq> rsalveti, bug #1235000
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1236525 in unity-mir "duplicate for #1235000 unity8 killed/crash then restart can result in mir unable "could not unblank display"" [Critical,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1236525
<rsalveti> Saviq: then it moves to   what():  bind: Address already in use
<Saviq> rsalveti, yeah, and now remove the socket ;)
<Saviq> ogra_, will a pre-start script be run on restart / respawn?
<Ursinha> xnox, it was the first time I had it, the  last thing I did yesterday was to open the check for new updates screen and let it (really slowly) download the changes
<ogra_> sure
<Ursinha> this morning that app was frozen and then nothing else worked
<ogra_> it will be run before the exec ...
<xnox> Saviq: ogra_: rsalveti: why is mir using file socket, instead of abstract one? using abstract socket would avoid stale file sockets.
 * ogra_ points xnox to #ubuntu-mir 
<Saviq> xnox, apport-bug mir please :)
<ogra_> :)
<ogra_> xnox, probably the same reason why mir needs /dev/input/* to be 777 ;)
<rsalveti> Saviq: why is this fixed released?
<ogra_> (it worked when someone tried it ... so it stayed that way)
<Saviq> rsalveti, good question
<ogra_> rsalveti, apparently Mir takes weeks to land in the images
<ogra_> it is probably fixed in some branch
<rsalveti> oh, there's no bugtask for the package :-(
<rsalveti> only tracking it in the upstream project
<Saviq> rsalveti, https://bugs.launchpad.net/mir/+bug/1236525/comments/6
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1236525 in unity-mir "unity8 killed/crash then restart can result in mir unable "could not unblank display"" [Critical,Fix released]
<ogra_> and another one that wont be on anyones radar
<Ursinha> rsalveti, ogra_, are you guys following the "filing bugs against ubuntu packages" thread? Saviq pointed that not everyone can triage ubuntu tasks, and that might be what caused people filing bugs only upstream
<Saviq> Ursinha, well, not only that, but just that we didn't know the importance of the difference
<ogra_> Ursinha, yes, i saw that, funnily i tried that with some random packages and i actually get the bugmail
<ogra_> i dont really get why it doesnt work for Saviq ...
<Ursinha> ogra_, you need to be a bugsquad member (or something) iirc
<Saviq> ogra_, actually Mir has a clear distinction between upstream and distro bugs and they're looking at both
<Saviq> Ursinha, yeah, which kind of sucks
<ogra_> Saviq, well, it just means adding a few teams to the bugsquad team ... if thats really the case
<Saviq> ogra_, yeah, but that's not ideal is it... it's not like those people/teams *are* actually part of the bugsquad team
<Saviq> ogra_, granularity is lost
<seb128> Saviq, you are asking for double list/work?
<ogra_> usually when a package enters the archive such bits should be set up by the person adding it to the archive
<Saviq> seb128, I'm not *asking*
<Saviq> seb128, I'm pointing out what doesn't work for us with just distro bugs
<ogra_> seems that step wasnt done for any pof the touch packages
<Saviq> seb128, I'm fine with defaulting to distro bugs
<seb128> Saviq, well, it's a cost/benefit thing
<seb128> we should fix the issues for sure
<xnox> Ursinha: Saviq: the barrier of entry is to read wiki page of "statuses & priorities" for Ubuntu Packages, special casing slight different statuses for SRUs & then people can be mass added to bugsquad.
<seb128> well, I guess it's up to each team/project
<seb128> I'm glad we consolidated on one bug list for ubuntu-system-settings
<seb128> having to manage upstream/downstream lists is really annoying
<rsalveti> ogra_: maybe it's easier to become per package uploader, which would make them ubuntu-dev, and would also be part of bugsquad?
<Saviq> seb128, +1
<xnox> Ursinha: Saviq: all people that land code into Ubuntu should roughly know what the bug conventions for Ubuntu Packages are.
<rsalveti> or just core-dev that is part of bugsquad? don't remember
<xnox> well, bugsquad is open to non-developers & non-ubuntu-members =)
<ogra_> rsalveti, it would indeed be desired that they become per-package-uploader ... but there is a process ... it involves interest ...
<Saviq> xnox, sure, but if someone's not really in bugsquad, 'cause he's not doing what bugsquad does, at least not for projects other than their own
<ogra_> (and investing the time to go through it)
<xnox> bugsquad is meant to be very lightweight - read a doc, show comment what statuses you'd set on some sample, and off you go caring about a package that you want to care about.
<Saviq> ogra_, q: where can I see the reason for "Job failed to start" ?
<ogra_> upstart job ?
<Saviq> ogra_, ah there ;)
<Saviq> right
<xnox> Saviq: there is blanket exception for upstreams. All upstream developers can be auto-added to bugsquad, if they promise to set/manager their upstreams' packages bugs only.
<ogra_>  /home/phablet/.cache/upstart/$jobid.log
<Saviq> ogra_, hmm no, not going there
<Saviq> ogra_, since the job never started (pre-start script failed, I presume)
<ogra_> is it a system job ?
<Saviq> ogra_, session
<ogra_> hmm
<ogra_> then you need to add debugging to your job script i guess
<xnox> Saviq: if any command exists non-zero and doesn't print anything the job will fail to start and there won't be anything in the log.
<ogra_> right
<ogra_> add some echos to the pre-start script
<xnox> Saviq: pre-start/script/exec are all run under "set -e"
<Saviq> xnox, ogra_ah ok
<xnox> Ursinha: can you try as phablet user "$ initctl --user --no-wait start re-exec" and check if that looses UPSTART_SESSION variables everywhere?
<mitya57> Hi, what is blocking e-d-s migration? Quite a few packages are stuck in proposed because of that.
<xnox> mitya57: very little left, samba transitional packages and thunderbird.
<xnox> mitya57: it's actually entangled together with libav9 (~100) packages transition, osg transition, and a few others.
<xnox> mitya57: it will migrate soon.
<mitya57> xnox: thanks
<Ursinha> xnox, sure
<Ursinha> sorry, was getting the daily dose of coffee
<xnox> =))))) coffee is good!
<rsalveti> ogra_: did you open a bug for the mit socket issue?
<rsalveti> *mir
<ogra_> nope
<Ursinha> xnox, oh yeah :)
<ogra_> rsalveti, there must be one, this has occured so often in the past
<Ursinha> xnox, initctl: invalid option: --no-wait
<rsalveti> ogra_: right
<xnox> Ursinha: weird, move "--no-wait" after "start" ?
<xnox> or try without --no-wait
<Ursinha> xnox, initctl: Unable to connect to Upstart: Empty address ''
<xnox> Ursinha: ah, so you didn't reset the UPSTART_SESSION from the file? or did it now loose it again.
<Ursinha> xnox, no, I haven't reset that so I didn't lose the "buggy" condition :)
<Ursinha> but I can do that, yes
<xnox> Ursinha: well, I know how to artificially cause buggy condition - initctl unset-env --global UPSTART_SESSION
<xnox> i'm trying to figure out how to reproduce it. My thought is that re-exec maybe loosing it, thus the attempt to re-exec session init and see if that goes from good -> buggy.
<xnox> (under actual operating conditions, not artificially induced)
<Ursinha> xnox, right
<Ursinha> xnox, I tried to set the current env to that and I got this: initctl: Unable to connect to Upstart: Failed to connect to socket /com/ubuntu/upstart-session/32011/1625: Connection refused
<Ursinha> s/env/UPSTART_SESSION/
<xnox> hm.
<xnox> $  export `cat $XDG_RUNTIME_DIR/upstart/sessions/*.session`
<xnox> $ initctl --user set-env -g UPSTART_SESSION=$UPSTART_SESSION
<xnox> $ initctl list-env
<xnox> $ initctl list-env | grep UPSTART_SESSION
<xnox> Ursinha: ^ does above sequence recovers ? and everything starts to know about UPSTART_SESSION?
<Ursinha> xnox, the initctl command gives me the Connection refused error
<xnox> Ursinha: all executed as the phablet user?
<Ursinha> it seems the upstart session information isn't valid somehow?
<Ursinha> xnox, yes
<xnox> Ursinha: does the pid of the session filename matches the pid of session upstart?
<xnox> to be honest it's weird that we encode PID, given that we can re-exec.
<Ursinha> xnox, what's the name of the process I should look? there are a couple upstart-something when I ps (none with that PID)
<ogra_> ps ax|grep "init --user"
<ogra_> try that
<xnox> Ursinha: pidof init
<Ursinha> oh, init
<ogra_> or that :)
<Ursinha> ogra_, your command returns only grep itself :)
<ogra_> phablet@ubuntu-phablet:~$ ps ax|grep "init --user"
<ogra_>  1826 ?        S      0:17 init --user
<ogra_>  9051 pts/27   S+     0:00 grep --color=auto init --user
<Ursinha> xnox, 730 and 1
<ogra_> returns the pid for me
<xnox> Ursinha: and the session file name is 730.session? in ls $XDG_RUNTIME_DIR/upstart/sessions/*
<xnox> Ursinha: also looks like your session started a lot earlier than ogra_'s =)
<Ursinha> xnox, haha no: /run/user/32011/upstart/sessions/1625.session
<ogra_> yeah, thats a strangely low PID
<xnox> ogra_: unless Ursinha's looped ;-)
<Ursinha> ogra_, I don't reboot my mako often, I use it as my regular phone so no need to
<xnox> and re-execed.
<xnox> Ursinha: ah, what's the upstart package version?
<ogra_> well, i get 681 here when i run it as root
<xnox>  ... we did fix a couple user-session bugs in latest upload.
<ogra_> (alongside with 1)
<Ursinha> hmm
<Ursinha> xnox, 1.11-0ubuntu1
<xnox> which is the latest one =(
<ogra_> upstart-app-lauch was uploaded recently
<ogra_> but i dont see how that would have any impact on the session
<ogra_> nor do i understand why the UPSTART_SESSION var isnt set
<ogra_> since that has to be processed on a new login
<ogra_> so at least in the second adb session you should have it set properly
<Ursinha> ogra_, yeah, I opened many of them and they have all the same behavior
<ogra_> Ursinha, does the unity UI itself recat ... can you scroll etc ?
<ogra_> *react
<Ursinha> ogra_, I can use it normally, it seems, can't only open apps
<ogra_> k
<xnox> Ursinha: let's see if can find the active one: does $ lsof -U | grep init
<xnox> Ursinha: returns anything like @/com/ubuntu/upstart-session/*/730
<xnox> ?
<Ursinha> xnox, is that supposed to be in the read-only image? if not I don't have it
<ogra_> no lsof
<Ursinha> lsof
<xnox> darn.
<Ursinha> yeah :/
<ogra_> (no fuser either in case you wanted to fall back to that)
<xnox> .... quickly cross-compile statically linked armhf lsof and run that..... (got to love debugging read-only images)
<Ursinha> lol
<xnox> hm, i wonder how we can guess it. well. it should be.
<Ursinha> ogra_, can't we have that now that debugging is important, and remove it later?
<ogra_> hmm
<xnox> well it should be UPSTART_SESSION=unix:abstract=/com/ubuntu/upstart-session/$uid/$pid, so try something like: UPSTART_SESSION=unix:abstract=/com/ubuntu/upstart-session/$uid/730 initctl --user list-env
<ogra_> doesnt have any extra deps, i suppose we could add it, yeah
<xnox> Ursinha: ^
<xnox> Ursinha: and 730 process is owned by phablet user right?
<Ursinha> xnox, no, root
<Ursinha> is that right?
<ogra_> xnox, thats androids init
<ogra_> Ursinha, ps ax|grep 730
<ogra_> Ursinha, does it have a / in front ?
<xnox> Ursinha: these are not the inits we are looking for
<Ursinha> ogra_, I did that, I know how to check a process ownership haha
<ogra_> Ursinha, but is there a / ?
<ogra_> then it is androids init
<Ursinha> pid 1 is /sbin/init, pid 730 is /init
<ogra_> right
<Ursinha> both root's
<Saviq> ogra_, https://code.launchpad.net/~saviq/unity8/drop-stale-socket/+merge/196917
<Ursinha> and that's about it
<ogra_> there needs to be a third one
<xnox> Ursinha: so where did the 1625 go =) upstart logs should have a disconnect from session-init then.
<Ursinha> xnox, good question hehe
<ogra_> Ursinha, that means there is no upstart session at all ... now how did you get unity to ever run ...
<xnox> Ursinha: are there any /var/crash/* files?
<xnox> (unless whoopsie puts them elsewhere on the phone)
<ogra_> nope, same place
<Ursinha> there are a bunch
<xnox> Ursinha: anything initish?
<xnox> Ursinha: you may want to fetch all of them.
<Ursinha> there's a unity8 one, one upstart-app-launch, one sbin-system-image-dbus
<Ursinha> others are webbrowser, system-settings and other apps
<ogra_> no upstart ?
<ogra_> hmm
<Ursinha> let me fetch them all
<ogra_> did you by chance run out of disk space
<Ursinha> ogra_, doesn't seem so, only with 99% is /dev/loop1 (/lib/modules)
<xnox> ogra_: where is init --user spawned on the phone? and is the output redirected? e.g. on desktops init's stdout/err ends up in ~/.xsessions-errors
<xnox> ogra_: do we have equivalent on the phone?
<ogra_> xnox, lightdm spawns it iirc
<xnox> ogra_: and redirects stderr to /dev/null?
<ogra_> not sure where lightdm redirects ...
<xnox> yeah, i want to know where the output is redirected.
<ogra_> /var/log/lightdm/lightdm.log should have some info
<xnox> ogra_: well lightdm spawns a session init for itself (lightdm-session) or does it do (the session session-init) on the phone as well?
<Ursinha> whoa, unity8 crash has 55Mb
<ogra_> xnox, not in autologin mode
<xnox> ah, right.
<ogra_> [+0.26s] DEBUG: Registering session with bus path /org/freedesktop/DisplayManager/Session0
<ogra_> [+0.26s] DEBUG: Session pid=1772: Running command /usr/sbin/lightdm-session ubuntu-touch-session
<ogra_> [+0.27s] DEBUG: Session pid=1772: Logging to .xsession-errors
<ogra_> aha
<ogra_> so yeah, some bits are logged there
<xnox> Ursinha: cat ~/.xsession-errors please =)
<Ursinha> yay, there's a segfault
<xnox> \o/
<ogra_> great
<xnox> Ursinha: pastebin that to me.
<Ursinha> \o/
<xnox> on the other hand, init just segfaulted /o\
<Ursinha> xnox, http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/6484724/
<Ursinha> lol
<Ursinha> <o>
<xnox> Ursinha: since it core-dumped there should have been a whoopsie .crash file.... ?!
<Ursinha> so it seems my phone is now kind of a zombie?
<Ursinha> xnox, http://paste.ubuntu.com/6484729/
<ogra_> xnox, well, it doesnt say it was init that segfaulted ... "something" segfaulted
<Ursinha> the list of crash files
<ogra_> heh, apport crashed :P
<Ursinha> crashed while processing a unity8 crash?
<Ursinha> oh well
<xnox> Ursinha: interesting why apps were getting killed with KILL / TERM / ABRT
<ogra_> because the session died
<xnox> Ursinha: are there any processes left as phablet user running? and what's their environ. We want something pid larger 1625 but very close to it?
<Ursinha> let me see
<xnox> hm, .xsession-errors ways that process 1625 asserted.
<xnox> s/ways/says/
<Ursinha> xnox, http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/6484736/
<Ursinha> all others have much higher pid
<xnox> Ursinha: How odd.... session-init should start dbus, yet it looks like it was started ahead of us by pid 1618
<Ursinha> xnox, it seems nothing makes much sense in this scenario.. how did it get there?
<xnox> Ursinha: can you cat /proc/1672/environ and check if has DBUS_SESSION_BUS_ADDRESS set & UPSTART_SESSION
<xnox> Ursinha: if not, all of them are self-spawned zombies. Cause all of the indicators, for example, are dbus activated and prefer to do upstart activation, but silently fallback to direct exec.
<xnox> actually.
<xnox> Ursinha: i bet all of these are dbus-activated, unity8 including.
<happyaron> seb128: RHEL7 is using ibus 1.5.3 at the moment
<Ursinha> UPSTART_SESSION=unix:abstract=/com/ubuntu/upstart-session/32011/1625 and DBUS_SESSION_BUS_ADDRESS=unix:abstract=/tmp/dbus-Qrg3Aw75Zy,guid=dee63f588c7e05843689419552949b55
<xnox> Ursinha: or not, so dconf was spawned by now dead session-init.
<Ursinha> xnox, I assume I should file a bug about it... where should I start, it seems everything is odd
<xnox> with pid1 atleast kernel panics, but with session-init it all just keeps on running.
<Ursinha> right
<xnox> Ursinha: i'm downloading all the pastebins and filing a bug report. I'll paste a link once i'm done.
<Ursinha> xnox, thank you :)
<xnox> Ursinha: hence, i don't think post-segfault upstart code-path has ever been possible to exercise =)
<Ursinha> hehe
<Ursinha> let me know if you need more info, I'll wait for you to finish so I can restart my phone and use it :)
<xnox> imho system init should notice, disconnect, no-reconnect, stale session file & re-create one.
<xnox> Ursinha: yes, asap. Thanks a lot for this!
<ogra_> xnox, well, the user session is in the hands of lightdm
<Ursinha> xnox, no problem. thanks for helping debugging it :)
<ogra_> should system init still pick that up even if i.e. lightdm wouldnt inform it
<seb128> happyaron, I saw your comment on the google doc, thanks for checking
<happyaron> seb128: so do you still want to merge 1.5.4 (not counting the GTK input purpose problem)?
<seb128> happyaron, is there big differences between those versions?
<happyaron> seb128: not too many commits' diff, https://github.com/ibus/ibus/commits/master
<seb128> happyaron, ok, seems like a stable update
<happyaron> but some of them could be big diff in a single commit, like "Implement IME state per window. "
<xnox> Ursinha: one more thing. I wonder if upstart session-state was serialised anywhere. cause one could start session init & pass fd to it with json state information. No need to reboot at all =)
<happyaron> seb128: seems there's not the concept of stable update at ibus upstream, every point release is implementing new stuff plus bug fixes. and downstream maintain a list of patches in their distro, including Fedora.
<seb128> happyaron, is that commit fixing the state issue we were discussing?
 * seb128 reads http://code.google.com/p/ibus/issues/detail?id=1568
<happyaron> no
<Ursinha> xnox, so what's the black magic I should apply here? :)
<seb128> happyaron, are you sure? ;-)
<happyaron> seb128: so far it still doesn't work for me, so I think it's not complete at least.
<seb128> happyaron, seems like ibus upstream is wanting to get that resolved though, that's good
<xnox> Ursinha: i'm not sure =) something like $ find -name "upstart.state*" across home directory & XDG_RUNTIME_DIR?
<xnox> but i highly daubt it will turn anything up.
<happyaron> seb128: yeah good, restoring old codes...
<Ursinha> xnox, .cache/upstart has a lot of logs, and I could find a dbus-session file that contains DBUS_SESSION_BUS_ADDRESS
<xnox> yeah, that's normal.
<xnox> no files with "state" in their name?
<xnox> and json inside them
<Ursinha> xnox, nope
<Ursinha> neither at ~ or XDG_RUNTIME_DIR
<xnox> Ursinha: most of the crash files are probably caused by not being able to connect to session init. So i guess it's reboot time.
<xnox> =(
<Ursinha> :(
<Ursinha> okay
<xnox> Ursinha: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/upstart/+bug/1255569
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1255569 in upstart (Ubuntu) "session-init-less session-init session" [Medium,Confirmed]
<ogra_> lovely title
<Ursinha> thanks xnox
<Ursinha> updating to r33
<rsalveti> larsu: got the issue
<rsalveti> larsu: http://paste.ubuntu.com/6485009/
<rsalveti> larsu: the first message from 27800 is wrong in here
<rsalveti> larsu: http://paste.ubuntu.com/6485021/ and http://people.canonical.com/~rsalveti/indicator.png
<rsalveti> also updated bug 1253810
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1253810 in unity8 (Ubuntu) "Messages in Incoming not always display the correct date and content" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1253810
<Laney> bah, we really should parallelise the png optimisation step
<ogra_> we should stick it into dput :P
<ogra_> (or debuild)
<attente> seb128, do you know anything about the packaging in this bug? https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity-gtk-module/+bug/1250213
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1250213 in Unity GTK+ module "dependency error" [Undecided,New]
<robru> seb128, around? can you preNEW lp:unity-voice?
<kenvandine> seb128, do you know if there is a way to set the opacity on the header?
<kenvandine> or i guess change the style programatically?
<kenvandine> or anyone ^^
<seb128> attente, hey, if the content is not arch dependent, I think it should just be marked "Multi-Arch: foreign" (see https://wiki.debian.org/Multiarch/Implementation)
<seb128> robru, sil2100 already asked me about that, I said I would try to have a look but I had a busy day, maybe tomorrow if didrocks doesn't beat me to it
<seb128> kenvandine, no idea sorry, what are you trying to do? sounds like against visual consistency to do that
<sil2100> seb128: thanks :)
<seb128> sil2100, yw ;-)
<kenvandine> seb128, the background panel
<kenvandine> the spec calls for a preview page that makes the header and toolbar semi-transparent
<kenvandine> so you can see what the wallpaper would look like if you set it
<seb128> kenvandine, seems like something that could be useful in other places and could be built into the toolkit...
<seb128> kenvandine, but no, dunno how to do it otherwise, sorry
<kenvandine> Kaleo, ideas? ^^
<attente> seb128, thanks, i'll try it
<kenvandine> seb128, oh.. i found a hack that works :)
<kenvandine>         pageStack.currentPage.header.opacity = 0.5;
<seb128> kenvandine, nice
<kenvandine> sort of
<kenvandine> you just have to make sure when you pop to reset it :)
<seb128> kenvandine, I hope it doesn't stop working at some point because you use non documented stuff and they rework Page or something
<kenvandine> indeed
<seb128> we should have a test for that sort of stuff
<seb128> so if it does stop working we know
<kenvandine> works for the toolbar as well
 * didrocks waves good evening
<robru> pitti, still around at this late hour? how goes the python3 transition for autopilot? I'm seeing a weird friends_app AP failure that's not my fault, wondering if you broke it ;-)
<Kaleo> kenvandine, sorry, let me read
<Kaleo> "seb128: kenvandine, no idea sorry, what are you trying to do? sounds like against visual consistency to do that"
<Kaleo> he is right
<kenvandine> i have a hack that  works, but not elegant
<Kaleo> kenvandine, who is the designer? did he talk with the others?
<kenvandine> Kaleo, it's for previewing what the wallpaper will look like
<kenvandine> mpt
<Kaleo> kenvandine, specifically katie and jouni
<Kaleo> kenvandine, you mean the app to be see through?
<seb128> kenvandine, imho we should just hide the header/go fullscreen if we want to use the space for content
<kenvandine> yeah
<kenvandine> hiding the header probably makes the most sense
<Kaleo> kenvandine, yes to seb128? or to me?
<Kaleo> :)
<Kaleo> ok
<kenvandine> although, showing it does hint the user that they are previewing
<seb128> kenvandine, let's forget about the hack and talk to the designers about an alternative solution
<kenvandine> yeah
<Kaleo> seb128, kenvandine, if the agreed solution is still the same we can see to put it in the toolkit
<kenvandine> cool
<seb128> Kaleo, thanks
<attente> sil2100, is there a reason for this line in u-g-m's debian/control? http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~indicator-applet-developers/unity-gtk-module/trunk.14.04/view/head:/debian/control#L10
<attente> it seems to issue a warning that it's not a known field
<seb128> attente, that seems buggy placed, it should be on the binaries, not on the source
<seb128> well, binaries that provide a shared lib
<seb128> cf https://wiki.debian.org/Multiarch/Implementation
<seb128> if there is no shared lib, just drop the line
<attente> seb128, thanks
<seb128> yw!
<attente> seb128, when they say shared libs, do they also mean the -dev packages?
<seb128> no, just libraries (I think it's for shlibs/depends resolution)
<attente> ok, cool
<attente> so.. uh.. how do i know if this all works in the end?
<attente> the result seems indistinguishable from what trunk produces on my machine...
<seb128> I guess you use amd64
<seb128> can you install the :i386 variant of one of the binaries without making apt unhappy?
<seb128> reading the description it seems that didn't work before because the -common was not multiarched correctly
<seb128> I guess you can build a package on amd64 using the same package version than the archive
<seb128> then try to apt-get install the binary which is in the description
<seb128> (you might need to add an i386 source to your sources.list if you never did that)
<attente> seb128, the default repositories don't already provide i386 packages?
<seb128> attente, I don't know, I'm on i386, try to sudo apt-get install gedit:i386 or something and see if that works
<attente> seb128, i get a lot of unmet dependencies errors in that case
<seb128> attente, dpkg --print-architecture
<seb128> attente, you might need to sudo dpkg --add-architecture i386
<attente> yeah, forgot to apt-get update
<seb128> I don't know, gedit might have depends that are not properly mutilarched
<seb128> try maybe something easier like file-roller or eog
<seb128> sorry, that's as much as I know on the topic
<sil2100> attente: indeed, as seb128 said ^
<attente> hmm.. maybe i need a reboot
<seb128> attente, reboot? that's not windows here ;-) you might need some sources.list hacks
<seb128> e.g https://wiki.debian.org/Multiarch/HOWTO has "deb [arch=amd64,i386]..."
<seb128> ok, need to go, good luck with that
<seb128> bye
#ubuntu-desktop 2013-11-28
<pitti> Good morning
<pitti> robru: that's psivaa's email about symlinks?
<damianatorrpm> Hello
<damianatorrpm> @larsu funktioniert auch mit installierten Schemas nicht, gesettings-qt ist trunk direkt mit bzr runtergeldaen, allerdings muss ich dazu sagen, unter suse nicht ubuntu...
<meetingology> damianatorrpm: Error: "larsu" is not a valid command.
<larsu> damianatorrpm: sorry, I was afk making some tea :)
<larsu> damianatorrpm: so you're not running gnome then?
<larsu> damianatorrpm: how are you using the schema? You need to run glib-compile-schemas after installing it
<damianatorrpm> Yes I'm running gnome at the moment. sudo glib-compile-schemas /usr/share/glib-2.0/schemas is of course done
<damianatorrpm> but the same problem is also with standard key's like org.gnome.whatever
<damianatorrpm> in dconf-editor I can correctly see and edit any key
<larsu> damianatorrpm: do you have the same problem with the gsettings command line tool?
<larsu> gsettings get org.gnome.deskotp.interface gtk-theme
<damianatorrpm> larsu: I'm 99% certain that  gsettings get org.gnome.deskotp.interface gtk-theme works properly. Today I have meeting in the office and am not at home so I will try this evening,
<Laney> hey there
<larsu> Laney: morning
<seb128> good morning desktopers!
<seb128> hey Laney, larsu
<larsu> damianatorrpm: please do, and also try with the keys that you installed. If that doesn't work, it's likely that something's wrong with your schema
<seb128> Laney, e-d-s migrated
<Laney> yes, I got a lot of emails \o/
<seb128> \o/
<seb128> pitti is going to be happy
<Laney> all those exciting new bugs to discover
<seb128> right
<Laney> :P
 * pitti waves hello to the crowd
<seb128> speaking of bugs, I don't get why I'm the only one seeing telepathy-mission-control sigabrt at every login
<crowd> hello pitti!
<pitti> oh nice! that means upstream merge proposals should now  be unblocked, I'll re-run a few
<seb128> hey pitti, wie gehts?
 * pitti hugs the cloud^Wcroud^Wlarsu
<pitti> seb128: gut, danke! und dir?
<larsu> lol
<seb128> gut auch, danke!
<pitti> seb128: "auch gut"
<seb128> ah, danke ;-)
 * larsu wonders when we can finally switch the official language of this channel to German
<larsu> now that seb128 is almost there...
<seb128> :-p
<seb128> so I debugged that telepathy sigabrt I see at every greeter use, found quite some issues
<seb128> the first one is what is creating the bug
<seb128> [   61.537359] type=1400 audit(1385628593.901:86): apparmor="DENIED" operation="mkdir" parent=3888 profile="/usr/lib/telepathy/mission-control-5" name="/var/lib/lightdm/.local/share/telepathy/"
<seb128> do you guys see that in your dmesg as well?
<seb128> dmesg | grep DENIED
<seb128> I don't get why you wouldn't...
<psivaa> pitti: yea, i *think robru's ping was about my email
<seb128> then mission control has a bug where it reuse a GError without setting it to NULL in between, which is in the codepath for when that dir is not writable
<Laney> no denied here
<seb128> Laney, is the dir existing for you?
<Laney> yeah
<seb128> ok, that would explain it
<Laney> nod
<seb128> if you remove it and go the greater, do you get the deny?
<seb128> I wonder if my apparmor config is different somehow
<seb128> or if you guys just happened to have the directory created at some point and staying there since
<Laney> it got recreated
<seb128> shrug
<seb128> why is apparmor stopping that for me and not for you :/
<Laney> maybe one of us messed with the policies
<seb128> I didn't afaik
<seb128> and I'm the special case it seems, nobody else mentioned that issue
<Laney> that's what I did
<Laney> oops
<Laney> was scrolled up
<seb128> hum, my /etc/apparmor.d/usr.lib.telepathy has
<seb128>     owner /var/lib/gdm/.local/share/telepathy/                  rw,
<seb128>     owner /var/lib/gdm/.local/share/telepathy/mission-control/  rw,
<seb128>     owner /var/lib/gdm/.local/share/telepathy/mission-control/* rwk,
<seb128>  
<seb128> no lightdm entries
<seb128> I though HOME was not working out of /home without changing the tunables
<seb128> I guess I need jdstrand, that's going to be for next week with thanksgiving
<seb128> some days I hate trusty
<Noskcaj> Does anyone have time to try and see what's wrong with the extensions in https://code.launchpad.net/~noskcaj/ubuntu/trusty/gthumb/3.2.5/+merge/196783
<seb128> lightdm/xorg are screwed on user switching
<didrocks> seb128: frusty! ;)
<larsu> frusty fahr?
<seb128> didrocks, yeah, wth
<seb128> Xorg hits a sigabrt with "no display found" error
<seb128> lightdm or something gets confused
<seb128> and I get a blank screen/vt over vt7/my session when that happens
<didrocks> urgh, doesn't sound good
<seb128> I can see the cursor changing shape
<seb128> but I can't get back the pixels
<seb128> going to vt, restarting compiz or another wm doesn't work
<seb128> just need to reboot
<larsu> so this just happens sometimes, not all of the time?
<seb128> robert_ancell said he can reproduce on trusty and seems an xorg error
<larsu> we should just drop xorg
<seb128> larsu, right, seems a timing issue, between lightdm and xorg
<seb128> haha
<seb128> anyway, I figured out why I get the telepathy issue
<seb128> Laney, do you have gnome-online-account installed ?
<seb128> looking at my bootcharts, it does
<seb128> lightdm -> unity-greeter -> indicator-datetime -> e-d-s -> goa -> telepathy
<Laney> Noskcaj: not sure if anyone here is going to know particularly; we don't ship gthumb
<seb128> the indicator should probably not init/use e-d-s at all on the greeter profile, I'm going to bug charles about that
<Laney> no, it's not
<seb128> the issue stopped after I uninstalled "gnome-online-account"
<seb128> ok, that explains then
<seb128> btw in the category
<seb128> "larsu told you so"
<Noskcaj> Laney, ok. I was just a recommendation from dholbach. Xubuntu still does, and no one can fix this
<seb128> nomination is bug #1255719
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1255719 in indicator-sync (Ubuntu) "Upstart job keeps respawing indicator-sync on the greeter" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1255719
<Laney> Noskcaj: check NEWS and so on to find out if they were dropped by upstream
<seb128> larsu, ^ I was thinking about you when I filed this one :p
<Laney> Noskcaj: also see where they were coming from in the previous package
<seb128> larsu, I couldn't troll ted though, those slackers are off eating turkey
<larsu> seb128: I will enjoy this moment in silence :)
<Laney> ooh, my PS4 is "dispatching soon"
<seb128> larsu, ;-)
<larsu> thanksgiving?
<seb128> Laney, oh, you got one of those?
 * Laney will be "sick" tomorrow
<seb128> larsu, yes
 * seb128 slaps Laney
<Laney> yep!
<Laney> haha
<larsu> lol
<seb128> PS4> WANT
<seb128> Laney, give it to me!
<Laney> go to a midnight launch tonight
<seb128> pretty please?
<seb128> (being nice is supposed to work :p)
<seb128> yeah, so I can get a cold and really be sick with a PS4 tomorrow? :p
<Laney> ok I'll get right on that
<Laney> sounds like a winning plan to me
<seb128> haha
<seb128> I would have bought one already, if it was reading PS3 games, but it doesn't :/
<larsu> Laney: shouldn't be too hard this time of year. Just get into a subway and touch all the handles
<seb128> my PS3 is having some issues, it tends to freeze/lock
<Laney> yeah I skipped PS3 so that's not a problem for me except that I would have bought GTA
<seb128> I'm not sure if I should buy a PS3 slim to replace it or go with a PS4
<Laney> guessing those ps3s are quite cheap now
<seb128> seems like there is almost no game available for it atm :/
<Laney> oh, still not so much
<seb128> ~200â¬
<seb128> larsu, I think your o-s change has a bug, I'm getting gedit to segfault sometimes since yesterday
<seb128> gdk_window_has_native: assertion 'GDK_IS_WINDOW (window)' failed
<larsu> oh
<larsu> do you have a stacktrace?
<sil2100> seb128: hello! :)
<seb128> larsu, let me install the dbg (and makes sure it's not the GTK update, but I doubt it)
<seb128> sil2100, hey, what's up?
<ogra_> oha ! my clock is right after switching languages back and forth on the phone ...
<seb128> ogra_, hey ... weird, does it persist after a reboot?
<ogra_> no more AM/PM
<seb128> or is that a one time workaround?
<ogra_> it only happens after a reboot ... and then stays that way
<sil2100> seb128: do you think you'll have time for a quick preNEW review of lp:unity-voice today? :)
<ogra_> i assume we dont update ~/.pam-environment on upgrades ?
<seb128> sil2100, you already pinged about that yesterday, I can have a try, still dealing with some other issues
<seb128> sil2100, if that's really urgent maybe didrocks can help you?
<seb128> ogra_, what upgrades have to do with the user config?
<ogra_> so that my manual setting/unsetting/setting actually added something there
<didrocks> seb128: it's not, I just want to MIR it later on
<didrocks> so that mterry isn't the only one having to MIR everything :)
<seb128> didrocks, well, I got 4 pings in a day for it now so I start wondering
<ogra_> seb128, well, if we add a setting the user needs to get it with a proper value on upgrade
<seb128> ogra_, I don't understand what that has to do with upgrades
<ogra_> if my ~/.pam-enviroment was missing a var and key ...
<didrocks> seb128: I think as the CI system was down for some some days, upstreams want to get their code released :p
<seb128> didrocks, gotcha, anyway it's on my todo
<seb128> no need to ping more :p
<didrocks> thanks seb128 :)
<seb128> yw!
<seb128> ogra_, it's good now, even after a reboot?
<seb128> ogra_, that bug doesn't make sense to me
<ogra_> seb128, if there is a fix thats based on the user having a sprecific var with a specific setting, it should not be needed that the user has to set/unset something in the settings app to get the fix
<ogra_> seb128, yes, it seems to persist
<seb128> ogra_, right, it should not, but days only have 24 hours
<seb128> there is a limit on how much we can get done in a day
<ogra_> seb128, sure, i'm just trying to identify the reason of the bug
<seb128> ogra_, I guess you picked your locale in the setting at a time where we were setting the language only and no lctime and such
<ogra_> right
<seb128> so your user config was incomplete
<ogra_> thats what i mean ... ~/.pam_environment just stayed that way
<seb128> we could try to tweak pam configs on upgrades
<ogra_> right
<seb128> but well, imho that's not worth the efforts atm
<seb128> only early adapter are running touch, and it's easy to go in settings and pick your language again
<ogra_> well, most of our users will do OTA upgrades and not reinstall all the time
<seb128> right
<seb128> our current users are technical enough to be able to workaround it
<ogra_> well, i wasnt
<ogra_> it bothered me for several weeks and i only worked around it by accident
<seb128> well, you just fixed it no? ;-)
<seb128> I guess it's part of being an early adopter
<ogra_> heh, k
<seb128> don't get me wrong, I would like to fix all bugs and all weird cases
<seb128> but we just can't justify spending that amonth of efforts on the experience for early adapter updating
<seb128> we need to focus on making the product good
<seb128> those would started very early might have to deal with some upgrade issues
<seb128> but the other alternative is to spend a ridiculous amonth of efforts for a few users and put us behind for the important work
<ogra_> well, we should at least have some hooks prepared for such cases ... they will likely also happen on released images at some point
<seb128> right
<seb128> there is a lot of things we should have
<ogra_> surely not urgent right now
<ogra_> but something we should at least have a plan for before release
<seb128> we have the migration tool didrocks wrote, it's working
<ogra_> it didnt in my case :)
<seb128> it just requires somebody to actual write the migration code for that case, if you want to handle it
<seb128> well, somebody needs to write a script that migrate the config
<seb128> it's not rocket science, but it's touch pam config and has possibility to create real issues at login
<seb128> so it needs some thinking and testing
<ogra_> rihgt
<seb128> if you want to do it and send a patch, please do
<ogra_> *right even
<seb128> but it's just not enough of an issue atm to make the top of my list
 * Laney builds new glib
<Laney> (muhahaha)
<seb128> ;-)
<seb128> shrug
<seb128> Laney, your e-d-s ppa somewhat made my system unhappy :/
<seb128> well I installed that transition back then
<Laney> which part?
<Laney> the goa bit?
<seb128> but trusty doesn't resolve it
<seb128> yes
<seb128> it removed empathy and I can't install it back
<Laney> it's probably diverged somewhat from the archive now
<Laney> you should ppa-purge it
<seb128>  empathy : DÃ©pend: libgoa-1.0-0 (>= 3.5.1) mais ne sera pas installÃ©
<Laney> if that can handle transitions
<seb128> shrug
<seb128> I've a libgoa-1.0-0b
<Laney> yes, the goa transition
<Laney> which isn't in archive
<seb128> blocked on webkit?
<Laney> yeah
<Laney> there might be a working qemu/arm64 now though
<Laney> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/qemu/1.6.0+dfsg-2ubuntu3
<Laney> will try it later
<seb128> $ sudo apt-get instarusty libevolution/trusty evolution-data-server/trusty libgoa-1.0-common/trusty  libgoa-1.0-0b- evolution-plugins/trusty gnome-control-center/trusty unity-scope-gdrive/trusty unity-lens-photos/trusty gir1.2-gdata-0.0/trusty gir1.2-goa-1.0/trusty
<seb128> that fixes it
 * seb128 doesn't trust ppa purge, just do stuff by hand
<ogra_> seb128, i have truned bug 1255530 into a wishlist bug for session-migration and closed the indicator-datetime task
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1255530 in session-migration (Ubuntu) "/home/phablet/.pam_environment does not get updated on OTA upgrades" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1255530
<seb128> ogra_, thanks
<Laney> yeah that seemed to mess up with reverting the transition here
<Laney> for once aptitude was useful in doing that
<Laney> like the third option was to downgrade everything to trusty
<seb128> larsu, do you want to fix update-manager for the box/scaling issue?
<seb128> or should I have a look?
<larsu> seb128: I had planned to do it. I'm working in the theme right now though, so if you have time or want to do it, I'd be happy if you did
<seb128> larsu, I'm having a look
<seb128> larsu, https://code.launchpad.net/~seb128/update-manager/box-use-vertical-space/+merge/197042 fixes the update-manager issue for me
<seb128> oh, speaking of update-manager
<seb128> hey mvo ;-)
<seb128> on that note, lunch time, bbiab
<larsu> seb128: are you setting that expand property on a box?
<larsu> seb128: ah nvm, enjoy lunch!
 * Laney installs new glib packages
 * Laney watches PC catch on fire
<mvo> seb128: hey! just saw your MP
<mlankhorst> didrocks: ping?
<seb128> mvo, hey, how are you?
<didrocks> mlankhorst: pong
<seb128> larsu, yes, seems to work
<mlankhorst> didrocks: I was porting pointer barriers to unity-2d, but I noticed that it believes it should create a pointer barrier at 0x0, stretching to 0x0
 * seb128 sends some water in Laney's direction
<mlankhorst> which somehow works on raring xserver
<seb128> Laney, how is the world seen from a new glib?
<mlankhorst> but fails with the new pointer barrier implementation
<Laney> I didn't restart my session yet because it's building webkitgtk/arm64, but nothing blew up so far
<seb128> mlankhorst, what do you mean "ported pointer barriers to unity-2d"?
<Laney> downloading a trusty iso to put it in there
<seb128> Laney, good
<Laney> let me scp it to people and you ca... oh wait, i386
<didrocks> mlankhorst: this is for precise I guess?
<mlankhorst> didrocks: yes :)
<seb128> Laney, ;-)
<seb128> Laney, if you push the vcs somewhere I'm happy to test build/install it
<Laney> easily fixed!
<Laney> s'already building
<mlankhorst> seb128: saucy xserver has the upstream pointer barrier abi
<mlankhorst> so if i want to backport saucy xserver to precise the pointer barrier implementation of unity and unity-2d need to be changed at runtime
<didrocks> mlankhorst: maybe the unity8 guys have some code for that, and can be backported to unity2d
<mlankhorst> didrocks: I already ported it
<mlankhorst> but I don't see why the pointer barrier is created with 0x0 0x0
<didrocks> Kaleo: do you remember? ^
<mlankhorst> it's on the s-lts-backport ppa
<seb128> mlankhorst, ok, I was not sure if you were adding the feature (e.g if unity-2d has it, it was not feature complete compared to 3d)
<mlankhorst> if unity-2d didn't have pointer barriers I wouldn't spend the effort on it :P
<Kaleo> didrocks, unity 2D has it, not unity8
<didrocks> Kaleo: I think his question was:
<didrocks> "why the pointer barrier is created with 0x0 0x0 "
<mlankhorst> yeah
<mlankhorst> if I look at shell/Shell.qml p2: Qt.point(x, declarativeView.screen.geometry.y + declarativeView.screen.geometry.height)
<mlankhorst> p1: Qt.point(x, declarativeView.screen.geometry.y)
<mlankhorst> so I'm guessing declarativeView.screen.geometry.height = 0
<Kaleo> didrocks, mlankhorst dunno
<Kaleo> didrocks, mlankhorst: better ask greyback or Saviq
<greyback> mlankhorst: would suspect libunity-2d-private/src/screeninfo.h isn't getting the screen geometry correctly
<greyback> mlankhorst: else that piece of qml is being called before the screen geometry has been fetched - and isn't updated when the screen geometry is then corrected
<mlankhorst> that would seem likely
<mlankhorst>  yeah
<mlankhorst> calling xrandr afterwards causes it to create barriers again with more reasonable x/y coordinates
<davmor2> seb128: don't know if you can point me in the right direction with this one.  I updated my Saucy Laptop yesterday and now even though the only keybord I have installed is English(UK) it seems to be a US layout
<seb128> davmor2, no idea, what's the difference between both?
<seb128> I though they were both qwerty
<davmor2> seb128: @ becames ", shift 2 becomes @
<seb128> davmor2, what is the indicator in the panel saying?
<seb128> is that persistant accross reboots?
<davmor2> seb128: yeap
<Laney> deb http://people.canonical.com/~laney/package-junkyard ./
<Laney> ^ glib
<mlankhorst> oh wait, floats, grr :P
<seb128> Laney, desrt: you guys are boring, I like that!
<seb128> (new glib installed, restarted session, no visible change)
<Laney> good good
<davmor2> seb128: http://ubuntuone.com/7I0RGTAaCn1z9pZOpgsjpT So here I clicked on the indicator and opened the keyboard layout but that isn't what I have :)
<seb128> davmor2, is gnome-settings-daemon running?
<mlankhorst> ok looks like a printf error, sigh
<mlankhorst> back to square 0
<davmor2> seb128: running ps aux | grep gnome-settings-daemon I have listed /usr/lib/gnome-settings-daemon/gnome-fallback-mount-helper  and nothing else
<seb128> davmor2, that's your issue I guess
<seb128> davmor2, do you have any apport file for it or an error in .cache/upstart/gnome-settings-daemon.log ?
<davmor2> seb128: http://paste.ubuntu.com/6489263
<davmor2> seb128: I'll check it now
<seb128> davmor2, do you use an nvidia card/driver?
<davmor2> seb128: I do
<seb128> davmor2, is your machine an optimus one?.
<davmor2> seb128: it is
<seb128> davmor2, talk to tseliot, that's a known issue with nvidia drivers/optimus
<seb128> davmor2, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-settings-daemon/+bug/1224254
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1224254 in xserver-xorg-video-modesetting (Ubuntu) "xrandr Xerrors with the nvidia binary drivers" [Medium,Triaged]
<davmor2> seb128: thanks
<seb128> davmor2, uw
<seb128> yw
<seb128> davmor2, gsettings set org.gnome.settings-daemon.plugins.xrandr active false
<seb128> davmor2, that should workaround it (it might make your monitors config wrong though, if that's the case use the nvidia tool I guess)
<davmor2> seb128: thanks
<seb128> yw
<davmor2> seb128: Yay work around worked I have me @'s back  it makes it much easier to send emails now :)  Thanks again :)
<seb128> davmor2, yw!
<seb128> davmor2, what did you change btw? I'm curious why that just started...
<seb128> davmor2, new nvidia drivers?
<davmor2> Let me have a look at the update history and see what got installed
<seb128> davmor2, one other option is that you did use the monitor configuration tool and got a configuration written and that g-s-d started to try to apply it (where you had none before and it was not trying to apply changes)
<Laney> glib is up ...
<seb128> davmor2, you can try re-enabling the key and deleting .config/monitors.xml
<davmor2> seb128: only xorg change seems to be xserver-xorg-glamoregl
<seb128> davmor2, what's the timestamp of .config/monitors.xml ?
<Laney> desrt: â, should make you happy :-)
<davmor2> seb128: no such file or directory
<seb128> davmor2, hum, ok, so probably nvidia/optimus by itself then... not sure when that just started being buggy for you
<seb128> Laney, WAIT
<davmor2> Laney: if glib is up, does that automatically mean that flippant is on the rise too?
<seb128> ;-)
<Laney> haha, you can't scare me with that
<Laney> there's HOURS to put a britney block in yet :P
<seb128> hehe
<seb128> well, no issue so far and I restarted my session
<seb128> so looks good
<Laney> davmor2: flippant took a hit on the news, but loquacious is riding its coat tails
<davmor2> Laney: as long as sarcasm isn't in decline I don't care :D
<mlankhorst> didrocks/greyback/Kaleo: turns out that something in kapplication probably already calls XGetEventData, so XGetEventData call was failing in my handler
<mlankhorst> which caused the event to be dorpped
<greyback> mlankhorst: that's annoying
<mlankhorst> yeah, at least new pointer barriers work now :)
<seb128> shrug
<seb128> Laney, new glib is buggy, put a block please
<seb128> Laney, desrt, larsu: with glib 2.39 I can't change indicator-power settings (e.g display % in panel, in the indicator menu), it displays those on start
<seb128> g_simple_action_set_state: assertion 'state_type != NULL' failed
<seb128> desrt, larsu, Laney: http://paste.ubuntu.com/6489372/
<seb128> works fine if I LD_PRELOAD the 2.38 libgio
 * larsu takes a look
<Laney> true, seems a change in glib causes this
<larsu> hm, this might be it? https://git.gnome.org/browse/glib/commit/?id=83869120bba2aa745a1b23fb415ab0eddd6f9327
<Laney> Is the bug that you're not giving the type when constructing the GSimpleAction?
<larsu> Laney: yep, just found that in indicator-power
<Laney> nod
<larsu> it's g_settings_binding something to the state of an action that was not created with g_simple_action_new_stateful
<Laney> Isn't it that you're using g_simple_action_new(..., NULL) instead of the type there?
<Laney> oh, maybe not
 * Laney gets it
<larsu> no, the second argument to that function is the activation parameter
<Laney> yeah
<larsu> I'll have a patch up in a bit, this doesn't seem hard
 * larsu compiles glib
<Laney> no need
<Laney> deb http://people.canonical.com/~laney/package-junkyard ./
<larsu> ah, thanks :)
<seb128> or get the debs from https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/glib2.0/2.39.1-0ubuntu1/+build/5277767
<Laney> yeah if you like downloading stuff :P
<larsu> I wonder why charles didn't just use a gsettingsaction
<apw> seb128, a fun one for you: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-screensaver/+bug/1255970
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1255970 in gnome-screensaver (Ubuntu) "multi-monitor: when the screen saver self-engages only the focused screen is visually protected" [Undecided,New]
<seb128> apw, can you reproduce? I had that once like a month ago and couldn't reproduce it after that :/
<apw> seb128, if you hand-engage the screensaver with C-A-l it changes behaviour
<apw> seb128, but if you reboot and let it lock by itself it seems reproducible
<apw> (as someone who manually locks most of the time that is why it took me so long work out how it occurred)
<seb128> apw, ok, that would explain why I couldn't reproduce, I usually lock by suspending/closing lid/manual action
<seb128> never by timeout
<seb128> apw, thanks!
<apw> yeah timeout seems to be the key
<apw> and only timeout any other seems to fix it somehow
<larsu> seb128: https://code.launchpad.net/~larsu/indicator-power/use-gsettings-actions/+merge/197066
<seb128> larsu, looking
<seb128> larsu, do you know why charles did it the complex way rather than the simple one?
<larsu> seb128: probably because he didn't know about g_settings_create_action when he wrote this, or that function didn't exists back then. I'll ask him for a review when he's up
<seb128> larsu, it's thanksgiving, he's off until next week (like most americans)
<larsu> ah, right :-/
<seb128> larsu, I'm testing it, codes looks fine to me... do you want a second review from e.g desrt or Laney before having it approved? (I don't want to wait for next week since new glib got uploaded)
<larsu> Laney: ^
<larsu> sure
<Laney> It looks sensible to me but let's wait for desrt's ack
<Laney> he should be along quite soon
<seb128> larsu, do you want a bug report for the record/discussion with charles next week?
<larsu> seb128: I can also just send him an email
<larsu> hm, but I guess bug is better for everyone to look at
<seb128> larsu, right, let me do that
<seb128> larsu, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/indicator-power/+bug/1255981
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1255981 in indicator-power (Ubuntu) "Indicator options stopped working with glib 2.39.1" [Undecided,New]
<larsu> seb128: thanks, I'll link the branch
<seb128> larsu, danke
<desrt> woh
<desrt> new GLib is up?
<seb128> desrt, good morning!
<desrt> good morning
<desrt> warning: pre-coffee
<seb128> desrt, no worry, I've no ping/question/trolls for you today ;-)
 * desrt saw something about a review a bit up
<seb128> desrt, oh, right, that's a small/easy one, if you want to have a look for larsu (charles is off due to thanksgiving)
<larsu> desrt: morning! Please drink coffee first ;)  https://code.launchpad.net/~larsu/indicator-power/use-gsettings-actions/+merge/197066
<larsu> desrt: new glib broke the old code because you commited a patch that enforces the type of the state
<desrt> erm
<desrt> shouldn't you call g_settings_action_new()?
<larsu> bah
<desrt> sorry.  i'll get on that coffee :)
 * desrt forgot that it's not friday yet
<larsu> it's always Friday somewhere in the world!
<desrt> speaking of g_settings_action_new(), though, did you take a look at your other favourite bug in the world?
<desrt> larsu: that's actually not true.....
<larsu> I saw it, but didn't have time to have a look yet
<desrt> it's evil
<larsu> that's what I figured. How did you end up doing it? varargs macro?
 * desrt uses a varargs macro trick to implement default arguments
<larsu> right
<desrt> #define a(x,y,...) func(x,y)
<desrt> #define func(...) a(__VA_ARGS__,NULL)
<desrt> if you give two args to func() then they become x,y
<desrt> if you get one arg, then it becomes x and NULL becomes y
<larsu> and it doesn't error out anymore if you give the wrong number of args
<desrt> well
<larsu> well, it does, but it'll be hard to read
 * sil2100 looks at seb128 from behind the corner
<desrt> if you give 3 then it will ignore the rest, ya
<desrt> but i don't think there is too much concern there
<seb128> sil2100, shrug, sorry I've too much to do I'm not going to do that review, please find another archive admin
 * sil2100 hides behind the corner again
<larsu> desrt: won't gcc warn when you give 3 args?
<larsu> ah wait, you never define a
<desrt> larsu: no.  the macro takes (...)
<larsu> that'll work. but ugh, that's evil
<seb128> sil2100, sorry, but I've it on my todolist, no need of 5 pings in 24 hours, that's adding stress for no good reason
<desrt> larsu: it gets worse
<larsu> desrt: but it gets expanded to a(x,y,NULL)
<desrt> larsu: we're going to break ABI at some point in the future
<seb128> sil2100, either it's a top priority must drop everything to do it and say it (didrocks said it's not the case) or just stop nagging for a few days
<desrt> larsu: that's where the second macro(x,y,...) comes in
<desrt> the NULL ends up in the ... and gets ignored
<sil2100> Sure, sorry for nagging
<seb128> sil2100, no worry, thanks for understanding
<larsu> desrt: break abi because you'll drop the version that takes a length?
<desrt> yup
<desrt> larsu: the way the macros work is that a mere recompile will cause everyone who was passing a length to g_variant_get_string() to stop doing so
<desrt> so then we can silently remove the second arg to that function after a while
<desrt> lots of code will be out there that pass NULL
<larsu> hm, so compile errors everywhere
<desrt> but second arguments are ignored -- a fact that we use a lot in glib
<desrt> my code auditing shows that very few people actually call this function with non-NULL second arg anyway...
<larsu> but there will be this one case that prevents seb128 from logging in one morning
<desrt> we have a stepped escalation plan in the bug :)
<desrt> first comes the critical... then the assert that can be turned off... then the hard break
<desrt> anyway... the proposal is pretty wild.  needs reviews.
<larsu> I'll have a look when I get some time
<seb128> doesn't like the sound of those changes
 * larsu was waiting for that exact phrase :)
<seb128> there is no such thing than "time before it's fine to change an ABI in an incompatible way"
<seb128> if you claim to be ABI stable
<desrt> oh seb.  you're so oldschool.
<larsu> he's cute, isn't he?
 * larsu hides
<larsu> desrt: but really, seb has a point. We should just make it glib 3.0
<desrt> seb128: speaking seriously, though, there's a single user of this feature in gnome
<desrt> in gtk
<seb128> somebody out there, in some business, is having a software from 15 years ago they need and which is no maintained anymore and they are going to be unhappy
<seb128> well, that one user could be NASA and it could be an app in a space shuttle that used to run fine for 15 years
<desrt> seb128: my point is that nobody uses this second parameter
<seb128> you never knows
<desrt> that's why people hate it so much
 * larsu resists being pedantic and pointing out that this function is only 5ish years old
<seb128> you don't know
<seb128> larsu, ;-)
<larsu> desrt: what's speaking against only doing step (1)?
<seb128> larsu, I'm more arguing with the philosophy of "nobody is using it, it's probably fine to make an incompatible change"
<desrt> larsu: the sheer ugliness of the interim
<larsu> meh
<larsu> sheer ugliness if what we have now
<desrt> hmm
<desrt> there's some people not passing NULL as the second argument
<desrt> ....they're passing 0
<larsu> how!?
<larsu> why?
<larsu> wtf?
<larsu> seb128: do you still have the issue with the small file chooser?
<seb128> larsu, yes
<seb128> larsu, I've opened https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=712288 with details
<ubot2> Gnome bug 712288 in GtkFileChooser "The default dimension of the fileselectors are a bit small" [Normal,Unconfirmed]
<seb128> larsu, but basically it's by directory, so "mkdir /tmp/gtkfswth; gedit /tmp/gtkfswth/larsu; ctrl-S"
<larsu> seb128: I get (740, 607)
<seb128> larsu, what's your screen resolution?
<larsu> seb128: same thing when I do that
<larsu> seb128: 1366x768
<seb128> larsu, I guess that's ok, 626 for 1920 is a bit small
<seb128> larsu, well, anyway, not a blocker for the update
<seb128> larsu, feel free to not spend time on that, it's a small annoyance, we can still look at it later/see how many users get annoyed by it
<larsu> seb128: okay.
<desrt> larsu: NULL == 0
<seb128> larsu, seems like we are going to push to the ppa once the overlay-scrollbar merge is in?
<larsu> seb128: the theme issue is a small fix - turns out the gedit problems I was seeing went away with 3.10.5
<seb128> larsu, oh, you still had the theme issues as well
<seb128> larsu, is 3.10.5 screwing up the g-c-c geometry?
<seb128> larsu, e.g do we need https://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-control-center/commit/?id=d54b8864abc8b69042db73df562b2cfc84714a69 ?
<desrt> a teacher once told me that NULL might not be equal to zero and therefore you should never do if(ptr) but always if(ptr!=NULL)
<larsu> seb128: I'm building it right now -- or trying to... a patch doesn't apply :)
<desrt> that teacher was an idiot
<larsu> desrt: I know, but I've never ever seen anyone use 0 instead of NULL
<desrt> larsu: i do if i'm lazy :)
<larsu> ugh
<larsu> stop being lazy!
<desrt> like writing a real quick program and i don't want to include stddef
<desrt> if god intended for us to use NULL he would have made it a language feature
<larsu> you write programs that don't include glib.h? :P
<desrt> larsu: ya.  sometimes they use <gio/gio.h> instead
<larsu> s/god/k&c/ ?
<desrt> k&r
<larsu> ya.
<desrt> how did they call it in the matrix?
<desrt> the architect?
<larsu> I think so, yes
<seb128> attente, hey, are you there?
<attente> seb128, yep
<seb128> attente, can you join #ubuntu-app-devel ?
<larsu> seb128: ya, we need to apply the patch. Also, I'm seeing theming issues again now that it's installed :-/
<seb128> :-(
<seb128> larsu, I need to check if that patch makes it still look ok with gtk 3.8
<larsu> I wonder why I didn't see those when running from the build dir ...
 * seb128 hates it when gtk update forces you to patch apps to look as they use to look
<seb128> sil2100,
<seb128> ./tests/autopilot/unity_voice/__init__.py: LGPL (v3 or later)
<larsu> ugh, right. But I don't see why it shouldn't work
<seb128> sil2100, that needs to be reflected in the changelog
<seb128> sil2100, ./tests/autopilot/setup.py: GPL (v3 or later) as well (the "or later")
<sil2100> seb128: yes, that's  the one part I prepared a fix for, the branch is ready - I missed the setup.py one though, thanks!
<sil2100> seb128: thank you for the review \o/
<seb128> sil2100, yw
<seb128> sil2100, cf #ubuntu-touch as well, the libdev is missing depends
<seb128> larsu, sorry, got sidetracked... what doesn't work? can I help in some way?
<larsu> seb128: I have black backgrounds in gedit and devhelp
<larsu> I'm trying to find out why right now. I hope it's not something that got fixed in the apps
<seb128> larsu, do you get any error on the command line?
<seb128> larsu, I don't get that with 3.10.4 in gedit (and 3.10.5 shouldn't have any theming change)
<larsu> seb128: this is with the universal background disabled in the theme
<larsu> seb128: which makes the info bars work
<seb128> oh, ok :/
<larsu> seb128: running gedit against my locally built gtk 3.10 works :/
<larsu> so... one of our patches?!
 * larsu is confused
<seb128> larsu, is one of those loading overlay-scrollbars and not the other one?
<seb128> larsu, we had bugs about that in the past... (just saying)
<larsu> seb128: you are a genious!
<larsu> that's it
<seb128> larsu, https://bugs.launchpad.net/overlay-scrollbar/+bug/1096907
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1096907 in overlay-scrollbar "Scrollbars cause GTK rendering issues with specific combinations of widgets and themes" [Undecided,New]
<seb128> larsu, ;-)
<ogra_> hmm
 * ogra_ notices that he shouldnt have checked the closk before 12 for 24h time :P
<ogra_> seems the time is still 12h format ... but the AM/PM is gone
<seb128> ogra_, :-(
<ogra_> yeah
<larsu> seb128: thanks. Just when I thought I was done with o-s :-/
<ogra_> i guess we still miss a variable
<larsu> I think we should just drop them
<seb128> larsu, I was about to make a comment about how much you must be loving the o-s right now
 * seb128 hugs larsu
 * ogra_ guesses they can be drtopped once we switched to unity8
<seb128> ogra_, or reimplemented for qt :p
<ogra_> lol
<ogra_> i doubt thats necessary
<larsu> seb128, desrt: surely we can live with that, right? http://i.imgur.com/CLufvB2.png
<larsu> this happens in all themes btw
<didrocks> larsu: no one will notice
<desrt> including adwaita?
<desrt> looks pretty bad...
<didrocks> if only it was aubergine :)
<larsu> desrt: yes. It doesn't happen without overlay-scrollbars
<larsu> lol
<desrt> ...
<ochosi> yeah, the overlay scrollbar issue is quite bad
<desrt> i don't get it
<ochosi> themes need an ubuntu-specific patch...
<desrt> how the hell does overlay scrollbars have anything to do with that?
<ochosi> in xubuntu we carry one for our themes that we don't ship in other distros
<larsu> ochosi: they do?
<ochosi> well they mess with the background
 * desrt sobs
<ochosi> if you're interested, i can dig up our patch
 * desrt wants to float larsu down a river of beer
<larsu> ochosi: does it look like this: * { background-color: @bg_color }
<desrt> ...with seb paying...
<ochosi> yeah, pretty much
<ochosi> but that breaks nautilus and some background stuff
<ochosi> just not very nice code...
<larsu> ochosi: that's what I thought. I just removed that because it messes with other stuff
<ochosi> imo the overlay-scrollbars should be fixed, finally
<larsu> like GtkInfoBars in 3.10
<ochosi> it has been like that for ages now...
<larsu> ochosi: s/fixeds/removed
<ochosi> well, whatever option
<ochosi> we're not shipping this stuff in xubuntu, i just get annoyed cause we still get bugreports about this kind of stuff :/
<larsu> desrt: thanks :)
<desrt> larsu: you're definitely on the icecream list in... uh... february
<larsu> desrt: February is the best time for ice cream
<ochosi> larsu: if there are changes to that, please feel free to ping me...
<ochosi> i'd really love to drop that silly patch...
<larsu> ochosi: will do
<ochosi> thanks larsu!
<larsu> seb128: ^^ so ... GktInfoBar or working theme? It's your choice! :P
<seb128> larsu, can't we away by tweaking the infobar bg in the theme?
<seb128> desrt, I would gladly pay as much beer as larsu wants to drink, but I wouldn't feel good, the guy drinks like one every second day
<desrt> marga: hey... tending to dconf bugs lately... are you still working on the NFS native backend?
<larsu> seb128: no, that's what my talk with Company the other day was about
<seb128> larsu, what is so special about infobars?
<seb128> larsu, forget about the infobars and the theme, that's not a blocker and we can get cimi to look at it for us
<seb128> larsu, you did the work for porting the o-s, he can do the theme tweaking
<larsu> seb128: nothing, they're just the first ones to experience the problem.
<larsu> seb128: this is an issue with o-s
<larsu> it happens in every theme
<seb128> larsu, right, but it's not a new one
<larsu> true
<seb128> I want to get that LTS out with minimal changes
<seb128> I don't want somebody to spend a week updating the theme
<larsu> right
<larsu> I'll upload the theme patch anyway
<seb128> larsu, thanks
<larsu> seb128: it's up to you of you want to apply it or not
<seb128> larsu, seems like we should be good for the ppa then?
<seb128> larsu, I think I'm going to do a first iteration without it, infobar looking backgroundless is less annoying that your screenshot's bug
<larsu> seb128: I agree. PPA sounds good. Let me push the last fix (update to 3.5 and removing a patch)
<seb128> larsu, btw, that bug is https://bugs.launchpad.net/overlay-scrollbar/+bug/1059374
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1059374 in overlay-scrollbar (Ubuntu) "Using Adwaita, many widgets are drawn with a solid black background" [Low,Triaged]
<larsu> seb128: yes, because Adwaita doesn't have that hack in it
<seb128> larsu, xim has a similar bug and got fixed with https://bug682395.bugzilla-attachments.gnome.org/attachment.cgi?id=225450
<seb128> larsu, I wonder if the scrollbar issue is similar
<larsu> seb128: ah, I can have a look for that. The overlay widget definitely needs to be native (that's the fix I made), but maybe the module accidentally turns the other ones native as well
<larsu> seb128: push into ~larsu/gtk/3.10
<larsu> do I need to prepare anything else for the ppa?
<seb128> larsu, no, I'm going to take it from there, thanks!
<seb128> larsu, o-s does   xid = GDK_WINDOW_XID (gtk_widget_get_window (widget));
<seb128> not sure if that's an issue
<larsu> ya, just saw this as well
<larsu> I'm trying to get rid of it right now
<larsu> thanks for the pointer to that patch!
<seb128> larsu, thanks, let me know how it goes
<seb128> yw ;-)
<attente> chrisccoulson, hey
<attente> i'm having trouble using bzr get-orig-source on firefox trunk
<attente> it seems to download everything but fails at the tarball packing stage
<larsu> seb128: that doesn't seem to help :(
<seb128> larsu, :-(
<seb128> that's annoying :/
<ogra_> seb128, so copying the output from locale on my desktop into .pam_environment on my grouper makes it properly show 17:57 on boot on the lock screen ... and as soon as the panel clock comes up it goes to 05:57
<ogra_> so still the same issue :/
<seb128> ogra_, seems it's not an environment issue then
<ogra_> just no AM/PM anymore
<seb128> rather something in the qml widget they use
<ogra_> i guess the environment does not get handed over to upstart
<ogra_> iirc the indicators are all upstart session jobs now
<seb128> ogra_, you can easily check
<seb128> ogra_, string /proc/$(pidof unity8)/environ | grep LC
<seb128> strings*
<ogra_> initctl list-env shows them proper
<seb128> well your description suggests it's right
<ogra_> letzs see what proc says
<seb128> then overwritten
<seb128> so probably not an env issue
<ogra_> grr ... no "strings" command on the image
<seb128> ogra_, you can try to grep directly
<ogra_> well, i pulled it to my desktop
<ogra_> looks fine too
<seb128> yeah, that's what I though, if the initial state is fine, the environment is fine
<seb128> seems like an unity8 issue
<seb128> they have a custom component for that
<seb128> which seems buggy
<ogra_> ah
<robru> sil2100, when you get back tell me what needs to be done with unity-voice and i'll do it.
<seb128> larsu, ok, gtk and o-s with the patch (since it didn't got merged yet) pushed to the ppa, the build is starting on some hours, we should have packages ready to test tomorrow morning (I'm going to follow up on my previous "status update email" then)
<seb128> on that note, I'm away for exercice
<seb128> bbl
<larsu> seb128: enjoy!
<seb128> larsu, danke ;-)
<seb128> larsu, btw, I know you get pinged every direction, do you know what happened with the timestamp/messaging menu issue from rsalveti?
<seb128> larsu, is that something on the indicator side? did you guys get to debug it?
<seb128> larsu, unping, just found the bug and your comment saying that the data is correct so the issue is on the unity side
<larsu> seb128: yep, I investigated it this morning when I got rsalveti's logs
<seb128> larsu, seems like you had yet another of those crazy days, you should call is a day now and go for some beer or exercice or walk or something ;-)
<seb128> on that note, exercice here!
<seb128> bbl
<larsu> seb128: yep, meeting with a friend in a bit :) Enjoy, and thanks for your help!
<seb128> larsu, thanks, have fun, see you tomorrow ;-)
<mvo> seb128: hi, I'm a bit sick today (a nasty cold) but otherwise I'm good. just merged your patch, I guess its fine if I upload it now?
<seb128> mvo, hey, sure it is, thanks!
<seb128> mvo, I hope you get better!
<mvo> thanks, its already (slowly) getting better, aspirin ftw :)
<seb128> mvo, some schnaps and some sleep should help there ;-)
<mvo> haha
<mvo> that is my second option :)
<ogra_> seb128, filed bug 1256061 .... not sure what to do as next steps :)
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1256061 in unity8 (Ubuntu) "clock forcefully switches from 24h to 12h AM/PM format once the panel clock is loaded" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1256061
<seb128> ogra_, get Saviq or some unity8 guy to debug/fix it ;-)
<ogra_> heh
<ogra_> he is so loaded with stuff already ...
<ogra_> phew ... and bug 1256062
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1256062 in session-migration (Ubuntu) "session-migration needs to be handled by upstart session" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1256062
<ogra_> thats enough bugs for a day
<seb128> ogra_, let's see, maybe larsu is done next week with the stuff he was working on and can help you having a look to that time format issue, he knows that code a bit I think
<ogra_> seb128, great ... i dont think its overly urgent ...
<ogra_> but something we should have fixed by release
<seb128> right, that's why I said next week
<ogra_> yeah
<ogra_> or next month ... as it fits
<seb128> right, let's see how things go
<sil2100> robru: sure, give me a moment :)
<sil2100> robru: actually, I see Pete fixed the other issue, and I have prepared a branch for fixing the copyright things already - could you review?
<sil2100> robru: I'll just lp-propose it now
<robru> sil2100, of course
<sil2100> robru: https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-unity/unity-voice/packaging_fixes/+merge/197115
<sil2100> robru: thanks!
<sil2100> robru: I pushed it to ~ubuntu-unity so that we can all edit it if needed
<robru> sil2100, approved
<sil2100> robru: \o/ Thanks ;) We'll still probably have to re-poke seb128 or someone to make sure the fixes are right, but it's not top-priority I guess
<robru> sil2100, well i was told to release this two days ago, so it's already quite late...
<sil2100> Ah... sadly, Sebastien was busy, so hm, maybe we could find some other archive admin to preNEW it in the meantime?
<robru> sil2100, do you know of anybody? last time I tried to do this, nobody knew what a preNEW even meant. apparently that's something specifc to daily-release and not all archive admins are familiar.
<sil2100> The whitelist is updated, so it's just a ACK from an admin required and you can publish then
<sil2100> robru: sadly no one specific comes into my mind - usually you can poke some archive admin and just say to look at the packaging as if he was reviewing it during NEWing
<sil2100> robru: so, looking at the packaging if it's ok to release into the archive - and if yes, simply give you a green light
<sil2100> robru: the whitelist is updated so all we need is a thumbs up from archive admins, and you can then push the publish button ;)
<robru> sil2100, ok
<robru> sil2100, https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-archive/+members#active who of these would be awake now? considering americans are off and europeans are nearing EOD...
<sil2100> Ah, crap, right... the US guys are off, hmm
<robru> sil2100, oh, stgraber is canadian! ;-)
<sil2100> !
<sil2100> Ok, so we have our victim!
<robru> sil2100, apparently infinity is also canadian.... hmmm not a bad representation on the archive team ;-)
<robru> sil2100, i'm in #ubuntu-release now
<seb128> Laney, glib made gtk build unhappy
<seb128> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/157838364/buildlog_ubuntu-trusty-i386.gtk%2B3.0_3.10.5-0ubuntu1~build1.1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<seb128> GLib-GIO:ERROR:/build/buildd/glib2.0-2.39.1/./gio/gtestdbus.c:618:start_daemon: assertion failed (error == NULL): Failed to execute child process "dbus-daemon" (No such file or directory) (g-exec-error-quark, 8)
<seb128> robru, hey, I read you email, no real recommandation... wait on Debian or build an Ubuntu version with changes,turning off tests and subscribe sponsors
<seb128> larsu, ^ just as a fyi, gtk didn't build in the ppa because of the glib issue I mentioned to Laney
<larsu> seb128: thanks. Anything I  can do to help?
<seb128> larsu, no, it's probably just a depends to add to glib, but that's a topic for tomorrow
<larsu> ya
<larsu> I'm off for tonight anyway
<seb128> yeah, me too
<larsu> good night!
<seb128> I was about to go
<seb128> night
<seb128> larsu, you too, see you tomorrow ;-)
<ochosi> robert_ancell: hey, i started to observe a problem with lightdm and light-locker recently and i'm wondering whether it could be a regression. after starting my computer/session, logging out and back in, i can't lock the session anymore. also dm-tool doesn't work. there's no error, lightdm simply doesn't respond it seems (switch-to-greeter also doesn't work)
<robert_ancell> ochosi, what does the log say?
<ochosi> robert_ancell: strangely enough nothing
<ochosi> and it seems to be quite reproducible
<robert_ancell> is the daemon still running?
<ochosi> light-locker you mean?
<ochosi> yeah
<ochosi> that one is running
<ochosi> but i think it has nothing to do with light-locker, as it also doesn't work with dm-tool
<ochosi> after starting the session the first time, everything is fine, only the second time it's borked
<ali1234> o/
<ochosi> robert_ancell: ali1234 is also testing this lightdm/light-locker problem ^
<robert_ancell> ochosi, I mean the lightdm daemon
<ochosi> hm, let me quickly check...
<robert_ancell> just as a sanity check :)
<robert_ancell> can you paste the lightdm.log after you use dm-tool?
<ochosi> lightdm is still running
<ochosi> ok, one sec
<ochosi> robert_ancell: this is twice or thrice dm-tool lock: http://dpaste.com/1486619/
<ali1234> ok, this time light-locker was definitely running. exact same result
<ochosi> so yeah, actually there are two issues
<ochosi> not sure whether they are connected
<robert_ancell> ochosi, is this trusty?
<ochosi> robert_ancell: no, saucy
<robert_ancell> This is the relavant line: [+943.62s] DEBUG: Process 3209 terminated with signal 6
<ochosi> lightdm1.8.4
<ali1234> yes, the xserver on :1 fails to start
<ochosi> hm
<robert_ancell> It's the X server crashing when lightdm tries to start a greeter
<ali1234> i have Xorg logs...
<ochosi> weird, why would it crash?
<robert_ancell> We've been seeing it more in lightdm 1.9 / trusty
<ochosi> ok
<ochosi> so you're aware of this already?
<robert_ancell> In trusty it quits with a "no screens found" error
<robert_ancell> just been seeing it this week
<ochosi> :/
<robert_ancell> But hadn't seen it in saucy
<ochosi> ok, well then at least i know it's not in light-locker..
<ali1234> (21:14:50) ali1234: this is when it works: http://paste.ubuntu.com/6491291/
<ali1234> (21:14:57) ali1234: this is when it doesn't:http://paste.ubuntu.com/6491290/
<robert_ancell> ochosi, could you file a bug with how to reproduce?
<robert_ancell> I need to get someone who knows X better to diagnose
<ali1234> basically, login, logout, login, lock screen (any method) -> Xorg fails to start on :1
<ochosi> yeah
<robert_ancell> yeah, we were doing - login, logout, login, switch to guest
<ochosi> i can do it tomorrow, it's kinda late here and i just returned from a party... :)
<ochosi> yeah, that's the same
<ali1234> (EE) intel(0): [drm] failed to set drm interface version: Permission denied [13].
<ochosi> switch-to-greeter also seems to produce the same result
<robert_ancell> yeah, X log shows same error
<ali1234> "sudo service lightdm" restart clears the error until you login, logout, login again
<ochosi> brb
<ali1234> so does this affect ubuntu-desktop too?
<robert_ancell> ali1234, yes
<ali1234> well, at least it's not my patches then :)
<robert_ancell> :)
#ubuntu-desktop 2013-11-29
 * robert_ancell heads to lunch, be back in 30-60
<ali1234> i can report a bug, but what do you want me to reproduce with? trusty, ubuntu-desktop in virtualbox (assuming i can?)
<ochosi> ali1234: that would be great, i'm not in a good mindset anymore now to write something that makes sense..
<ali1234> also... maybe we're only seeing it now because of my patches, which change the RetainPermanent stuff in lightdm-gtk-greeter, xfwm4, and xfdesktop
<ochosi> think i'll head to bed and look at this again tomorrow
<ochosi> makes more sense
<ochosi> ali1234: i'm not using your patches atm
<ali1234> ah yes, good point
<ochosi> and i had that issue way before you started working on this
<ochosi> s/that/these/
<ali1234> i'll do some tests with clean isos in virtualbox
<ochosi> so you're certainly not to blame ;)
<ochosi> cool
<ochosi> i'll check in again tomorrow
<ochosi> night everyone!
<ali1234> well, it didn't happen with trusty daily in virtualbox
<robert_ancell> ali1234, oh really? I could reproduce it reliably in trusty yesterday
<ali1234> i reproduced it with the guest session
<robert_ancell> seb128 said that downgrading to 1.8 seemed to make the problem go away
<robert_ancell> ali1234, but not lock screen?
<ali1234> it's put a greeter on top of my user session :/
<ali1234> i couldn't reproduce it by login, logout, login, lock
<robert_ancell> that sounds bad!
<ali1234> switched to virtualbox console and the display has gone completely mad
<ali1234> i didn't install the guest drivers either
<ali1234> lightdm just bombed out and sent me back to the login screen
<ali1234> i'm not convinced this is the same issue. i'm going to try on real hardware
<ali1234> actually now i think about it, what i saw in virtualbox sounds like what someone else described with trusty
<ali1234> and from looking at it, it looks like two xservers are fighting for the same framebuffer
<ali1234> so a theory: on saucy the second x server simply fails to load because the first one owns the framebuffer. on trusty it somehow gets past that and they fight...
<ali1234> or perhaps the result is X server implementation specific
<ali1234> ah... again, i can only reproduce with the guest session
<ali1234> and the result is the same: intel x server fails to start due to permission error
<ali1234> it seems like locking the screen on unity/trusty does not create a second X server instance. i only have Xorg.1.log and not Xorg.1.log.old
<ali1234> robert_ancell: what package do you want me to report it against?
<robert_ancell> ali1234, mark it against lightdm and I'll also mark it against xorg
<ali1234> "the problem cannot be reported. this is not an official ubuntu package..."
<ali1234> i just installed from the daily iso...
<ali1234> on the console: cat: /etc/lightdm/lightdm.conf: No such file or directory
<ali1234> i did touch /etc/lightdm/lightdm.conf and now the report is uploading....
<ali1234> bug 1256150
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1256150 in lightdm (Ubuntu) "Xorg guest session fails to start if the user has logged out and logged in again" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1256150
<robert_ancell> ali1234, thanks!
<ali1234> "log out" has now stopped working completely
<robert_ancell> !
<robert_ancell> I have to go, but I will have a look next week at this
<ali1234> i'm going to wipe this install for trusty/xubuntu now, the bug should still be easily reproducable there, and i need to test a bunch of things
<ali1234> ah... log out just took 4 minutes for no reason...
<pitti> Good morning
<Mirv> hello
<JackYu> morning
<damianatorrpm> GM all :)
<damianatorrpm> larsu: how are you :)
<larsu> damianatorrpm: good morning. I'm good thanks. How are you?
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<larsu> damianatorrpm: I saw your emails. Do you get any other output on stdout?
<damianatorrpm> larsu: Thanks. I'm fine too, it's Friday :-)
<damianatorrpm> larsu: no other stdout output. I also started QtCreator from terminal to see for any more output, nada. I also tried qmlscene and run the main.qml
<damianatorrpm> larsu: stii no difference.
<damianatorrpm> *still
<larsu> damianatorrpm: hm, I'm starting to run out of ideas :-/
<damianatorrpm> larsu: Can I show you via teamviewer?
<larsu> damianatorrpm: never used that. Do they have a linux version?
<damianatorrpm> larsu: yes :) .deb for 64 and 32 bit Ubuntu as well as .rpm for suse and fedora http://www.teamviewer.com/en/download/linux.aspx
<damianatorrpm> larsu: It's free of charge for personal use and works *always*
<damianatorrpm> :)
<larsu> and is not free software :P  (I'll install it, give me a sec)
<damianatorrpm> larsu: really appreciated. Thanks
<Laney> morning
<larsu> hi Laney, how's it going?
<Laney> pretty good, happy to have made it to friday ;-)
<Laney> you?
<larsu> same same :)
<Laney> what's this dbus-daemon thing?
<didrocks> Laney: ps4 on the way? ;)
<Laney> delivered 10:04-11:04 :D
<didrocks> ;)
<Laney> didrocks: did you go out for a midnight launch? ;-)
<didrocks> Laney: no, I don't plan to buy it before a year at least
<Laney> oho
<didrocks> I want games I'm interested in on the platform first ;)
<didrocks> like watch dogs
<Laney> fair enough
<seb128> back
<ogra_> front
<seb128> Laney, ogra_, hey, happy friday ;-)
<ogra_> same to you :)
<Laney> hey seb128
<seb128> Laney, how are you?
<seb128> Laney, you made rb unhappy, no music today :-(
<Laney> does banshee work? :-)
<seb128> lol
<Laney> (good thanks)
<seb128> do I look like I use GTK2 apps still?
<Laney> that is one sexy GTK2 app
<seb128> you are so old fashion... ;-)
<seb128> (but yeah, banshee works ;-)
<seb128> (you did that on purpose to made people use banshee, admit it!)
<Laney> :-)
<Laney> anyway, I saw the bug, hopefully we can get a fix today
<Laney> we should get that i-power fix out too
<seb128> yeah
<seb128> hum, glib migrated to trusty
<seb128> (it hadn't yesterday due to libffi but infinity fixed that)
<seb128> Laney, btw did you see my ping about GTK build?
<Laney> yes
<Laney> want to understand what changed there
<seb128> ok
<seb128> just making sure it didn't get lost in the backlog
<seb128> it seems suboptimal if we have to make glib-dev depends on dbus
<Laney> I don't see any changes in that code in glib
<seb128> hum, maybe GTK started used something in glib that was not used before?
<Laney> checking that
<seb128> speaking about indicator-power
<seb128> larsu, did you ever get desrt to +1 or -1 your action change?
<Laney> ah, I think it's a new Ubuntu patch
<Laney> gtk-object-tests-run-under-local-environment calls g_test_dbus_up()
<seb128> oh
<Laney> which uses dbus-daemon, but that's nothing new
<Laney> so I'd probably add the BD
<seb128> that seems wrong though
<seb128> if glib provides an api
<seb128> it should bring with it what is needed for the api to work
<seb128> or handle the case where the depends are missing...
<Laney> it would be quite heavy though http://162.213.35.4/search?weighted=1&q=g_test_dbus_up
<seb128> the indicators use dbus-test-runner so b-d on it, and that brings in dbus
<Laney> yeah
<seb128> but yeah, options are
<seb128> 1- add a dbus depends to libglib2.0-dev
<seb128> 2- workaround it by adding a dbus b-d to packages using that api
<Laney> dbus-x11
<larsu> seb128: he said he needed to drink coffee first. And then he didn't ever look at it
<larsu> I'll ping him again today
<seb128> 3- split the glib files out in a new binary which has the depends
<seb128> larsu, thanks
<seb128> I don't like any of the 3 options :/
<seb128> but I guess the b-d is the less annoying one
<Laney> same
<Laney> maybe glib could improve its message in that case, but it's quite obvious currently anyway
<seb128> let's do a ppa upload with dbus-x11 b-d
<Laney> k, ta
<seb128> thanks for looking at it!
<Laney> xnox: Do you have some time to help out on those libtimezonemap reviews?
<Laney> I feel bad for not looking at them sooner, but I honestly have never looked at this code before
<Laney> kind of got dumped in it there really
<xnox> yeah. i should review them. they do look good.
<Laney> he seems to have done 1 commit per change-ish
<Laney> so I'll take some of them and cherry-pick them
<Laney> omg bzr-gtk went away?
<seb128> yes, in saucy
<Laney> guess the fact that I only just noticed says something :P
<seb128> it needed porting to the new version of something and nobody wanted to do the work iirc
<seb128> desrt, wake up, I need you :p
<seb128> desrt, n-m is having an issue similar to rhythmbox, http://paste.ubuntu.com/6493541/
<seb128> desrt, I'm going to have a look at reverting this glib commit
<seb128> Laney, ^ or do you want to do that?
<Laney> seb128: go ahead, would be good to confirm it actually does fix things before uploading it though
<seb128> Laney, right, I'm not going to upload glib without testing, no worry
<seb128> I'm going to wait for desrt to be up, but I can as well start testing building/running it
<Laney> seems unsafe anyway if we've discovered two applications in the first day
<Laney> they might want to rethink it upstream
<seb128> right
<seb128> shrug
<seb128> GTK build still not happy :/
<seb128> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/157877308/buildlog_ubuntu-trusty-i386.gtk%2B3.0_3.10.5-0ubuntu1~build1.3_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<seb128>   /properties/GtkColorChooserDialog:
<seb128> (/build/buildd/gtk+3.0-3.10.5/debian/build/shared/testsuite/gtk/.libs/lt-object:20493): GLib-GIO-ERROR **: No GSettings schemas are installed on the system
<seb128> FAIL
<seb128> I guess it's looking in the system location, not the source
<seb128> larsu, ^
<seb128> brb, session restart with glib and the constructore change reverted
<Laney> xnox: reviewed a few of the changes, left some for you
<ali1234> seb128: so, you know this lightdm/guest session bug... apparently it went away when you downgraded lightdm to 1.8? but i can reproduce it in saucy, which uses 1.8.4
<seb128> ali1234, hey, weird ... it's rock solid for me with 1.8.4
<seb128> ali1234, it maybe is a timing issue and I just happen to be one side of the timing issue with 1.9 and on the other side with 1.8
<ali1234> we reproduced it in saucy not with guest session, but with the screen lock dialog, which xubuntu opens on :1, causing an identical problem
<ali1234> it's not a timing issue, lightdm actually tells Xorg to run on the wrong VT
<seb128> ok
<seb128> is that the same one?
<ali1234> well, maybe, maybe not
<ali1234> but it's reproducable the exact same way
<ali1234> if you've logged out and logged in, and then ask lightdm to start a display on :1, it will attempt to start it on VT7, which is already used by :0
<seb128> in trusty I get xorg hitting a "no screen found" error
<ali1234> the result depends on driver. you get no screen found with intel
<ali1234> with others, you get two xorgs on the same VT and they fight each other
<seb128> right, I'm using intel
<seb128> right
<seb128> for me it's like a get a vt over my xorg
<ali1234> but checking lightdm logs, it's explicitly telling Xorg to use the wrong VT
<seb128> e.g my vt7 is blank, but I can move the cursor and see it change shape where there are windows from my session
<seb128> ok, good
<seb128> seems like a bug for robert_ancell to fix then
<seb128> ali1234, thanks for figuring that out!
<ali1234> alreday reported. he's the one who told me you said 1.8 fixes it
<seb128> well, it does for me
<ali1234> perhaps it handles guest and "lock" slightly different
<seb128> could be
<ali1234> and only one got fixed
<seb128> what I do is
<seb128> - log in
<seb128> - log out
<seb128> - log in
<seb128> - start a guest from indicator-session
<seb128> that works in saucy
<seb128> but screws my session with 1.9
<ali1234> i haven't tried that on saucy, what we do is same: log in, log out, log in, lock screen with light-locker (that tries to start :1 and does exactly the same thing in saucy and trusty)
<ali1234> guest session also does it in trusty, but never tested that in saucy cos we didn't know that was also an issue at the time
<seb128> ok
<seb128> ali1234, yeah, I can confirm that in the log I sent to robert_ancell
<seb128> DEBUG: Launching process 4073: /usr/bin/X -core :1 -auth /var/run/lightdm/root/:1 -nolisten tcp vt7 -novtswitch
<seb128> well, let's see if resolving that issue fixes things for the different scenarios
<ali1234> yeah. bug 1256150 btw
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1256150 in xorg (Ubuntu) "Xorg guest session fails to start if the user has logged out and logged in again" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1256150
<seb128> right, I saw it in my bug emails box this morning
<larsu> seb128: seems related to my patch for https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=711715
<ubot2> Gnome bug 711715 in general "gtk object tests: run under local environment" [Normal,New]
<larsu> seb128: (sorry, I was out for lunch)
<seb128> larsu, no worry, I tested the hack debian is doing
<seb128> larsu, https://launchpadlibrarian.net/157881868/gtk%2B3.0_3.10.5-0ubuntu1~build1.3_3.10.5-0ubuntu1~build2.diff.gz
<seb128> larsu, tested -> I'm testing rather (it's building)
<larsu> seb128: ya that'll probably work. I'm waiting for desrt to tell me how to do it properly for the tests
<seb128> larsu, I hope desrt has coffee before looking at IRC, seems there is a stack of questions queued for him today
<larsu> seb128: he should move to a better time zone
<seb128> we have the best tz and the best cities, no reason to not come ;-)
<larsu> hehe :)
<seb128> larsu, btw Cimi reviewed on overlay-scrollbar changes and just pinged me on #ubuntu-devel, I asked him to join here/on a channel where you are as well
<seb128> larsu, seems like he picked another channel...
<desrt> hello hackers!!
<desrt> seb128: et tu, n-m?
<seb128> desrt, hey, how are you?
<desrt> okay
<desrt> i got coffee beside me :)
<seb128> desrt, should I revert the 2 commits from dan? just 1? just comment the g_error?
<desrt> i'd do both
<seb128> I did that
<seb128> just wanted to check with you before uploading
<seb128> though it refuses to build on amd64 in the ppa
<desrt> sigh
<seb128> FAIL: gwakeup
<seb128> FAIL: gwakeup-fallback
<popey> looks like we have the "hud-service eating my RAM" issue back again in 13.10.
<seb128> but of course no details in the build log
<seb128> popey, talk to pete-woods on #ubuntu-touch
<desrt> seb128: that seems highly suspicious
<popey> bug 1253593
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1253593 in hud (Ubuntu) "hud memory usage grows over time" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1253593
<popey> ok
<seb128> popey, wrong channel
<desrt> seb128: considering your reverts are in libgobject
<popey> this is on the desktop though â»
<seb128> popey, you want ted or pete, ted is off for thanksgiving
<popey> not phone.
<desrt> seb128: and the gwakeup test doesn't link against that
<seb128> desrt, right, so maybe another reason/something with the ppa
<seb128> desrt, https://launchpadlibrarian.net/157875681/glib2.0_2.39.1-0ubuntu1_2.39.1-0ubuntu2~build1.diff.gz
<desrt> seb128: maybe a new kernel version?  wouldn't be the first time this testcase found a kernel bug...
<seb128> desrt, can you sanity check? (ignore the "git" file in there)
<desrt> +++static inline gboolean
<seb128> desrt, well, it's basically reverting those 2 commits
<desrt> you said SANITY? ;)
<seb128> lol
<seb128> desrt, yeah, not a lot to check, that are the 2 upstream commits
<seb128> desrt, you saw the pastebin in the backlog (from nm)
<seb128> ?
<seb128> desrt, can you upstream that one as well?
<desrt> no
<desrt> got it
<seb128> cool
<desrt> the good news is that these projects were legit buggy/leaking
<desrt> and now we find out about it
 * desrt files a bug for the other danw
<desrt> seb128: of course everyone in USA is on their 5-day eatfest/buyfest
<seb128> desrt, oh, right
<desrt> that includes both danw and dcbw, i guess
<seb128> desrt, well, anyway with the revert that can wait
<desrt> kinda curious about this gwakeup issue
<desrt> the irony builds
<desrt> the last person to touch this file.... you guessed it.... danw
<desrt> (in fairness, though, dcbw wrote the offending code)
<didrocks> seems like a running joke
<didrocks> ;)
<desrt> didrocks: the joke started last night
<didrocks> desrt: yeah, seb128 told me :)
<didrocks> with your bug report?
<desrt> with seb seeing rhythmbox crashes
<didrocks> yep
<didrocks> and who wrote the libsoup code
<didrocks> :)
<seb128> larsu, gtk 3.10 built in the ppa \o/
<larsu> seb128: yay!
<seb128> everyone: ^ new gtk in the desktop team ppa if you want to give it a try
<Laney> exciting!
<seb128> I'm going to follow up on the list with that and the list of known issue
<seb128> glib with the gobject constructor restriction reverted uploaded to trusty as well
<seb128> would be nice if people could grab it/test in half an hour when it's built
<seb128> didrocks: ^ that should fix nm on the touch image
<seb128> bbiab
<desrt> bumpy ride
<desrt> i bet seb's appetite for a taste of gtk 3.12 has subsided
<larsu> desrt: morning!
<desrt> larsu: hi :)
<desrt> you finally put o-s to bed?
<Laney> ah, such fun
<larsu> desrt: let me know when you had coffee. I have two things for ya
<desrt> larsu: i'm coffeed
<larsu> desrt: no...
<larsu> I tried hard!
<larsu> desrt: https://code.launchpad.net/~larsu/indicator-power/use-gsettings-actions/+merge/197066
<desrt> oh.  that.
<desrt> i forgot to actually comment on that
<desrt> i see lots of red.  oddly enough, that means that i'm in a good mood.
<larsu> is it okay?
<desrt> my mind is blown by how bad this code was before
<desrt> what in the hell....
<larsu> desrt: ya, we found it because of the non-stateful actions that had their state set later on
<larsu> thanks for putting that check into gio ;)
<desrt> which was only possible if using g_object_set()...
<desrt> ...which you were ;)
<larsu> I?
<desrt> the collective 'you'
<desrt> who wrote this?
 * larsu is innocent!
<larsu> charels
 * desrt shakes fist
<desrt> charles_: if you're using my APIs and you ever find yourself having to do something so ugly again, please talk to me about it :)
<larsu> well, binding the settings isn't that ugly
<desrt> the gvalue shuffling...
<larsu> that is, definitely
<desrt> i'm actually trying to understand what the old code is doing.  don't see it yet.
<desrt> okay.  got it.
<desrt> the binding is directly manipulating the state of the action from the outside
<larsu> yes
<desrt> you're right... it's not actually _that_ bad
<larsu> it's very reasonable if you don't know about GSettingsAction
<desrt> and about GAction...
<larsu> ha, yeah :(
<desrt> the API very much has a 'state comes from within' feel about it
<larsu> well, simpleaction goes against that
<larsu> and if you're used to using that....
<desrt> ya... strictly speaking, if implementing a simpleaction (as this code is doing) then it's legit to say that the binding is part of the implementation itself
<desrt> as it is here...
 * desrt always perceives bindings as something outside of an object
<larsu> I agree, it should have triggered the smelly code detector
<desrt> my complaint, specifically: GAction::state is readonly and the binding is modifying the state of a GACtion
<desrt> but... it's also a GSimpleAction, so hey...
<larsu> yeah
<larsu> thanks for having a second look
<desrt> so why do you keep the action around?
<larsu> I don't know
<larsu> it's charles' code, I didn't want to mess too much with it
<desrt> there's almost nothing that you can meaningfully do with a gsettingsaction beyond adding it to the map
<larsu> but he's on tg holiday
<desrt> commented
<desrt> in summary: i want to see more red :)
<larsu> there is more code to be cut, but please let's fix the bug first
<larsu> I know what you'll say now.
<larsu> "You'll never get around to removing that anyway"
<desrt> also: it will take you less than 5 minutes to do what i asked
<desrt> and most of those 5 minutes will consist of tapping your 'd' key in a very satisfying way
<larsu> well, there are other actions kept around as well
<larsu> anyway, I'll have a look of you do me a second favor and have a look at how I install the schema in https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=711715
<ubot2> Gnome bug 711715 in general "gtk object tests: run under local environment" [Normal,New]
<larsu> it's causing problems on the builders
<larsu> but I didn't want to fix it because you probably have a very specific opinion on that
 * desrt has no idea what he's looking at
 * desrt becomes curious
<desrt> i guess this is some fallout from your gtk 3.10 work?
<larsu> desrt: yes. Running the tests in the session didn't work
<larsu> because schemas were missing if you didn't have 3.10 installed
<desrt> ahhhh
<desrt> i'm very surprised that gnome-continuous didn't pick that up
<larsu> same problem on the builders
<larsu> because its using installed tests
<larsu> it's
<desrt> right.
<desrt> probably also because it doesn't do clean rebuilds
<desrt> so even if it did 'make check' it would have a system image there
<seb128> desrt, glib built on amd64 on the buildders, I'm going to do another ppa upload with VERBOSE=1 just to see
<desrt> seb128: blame the kernel!!
<larsu> seb128 is back!
<seb128> larsu, yeah ;-)
<larsu> seb128: good news, giving only GtkPaned a background fixes the theme issues
<Laney> damn that colonel
<larsu> but I don't know if there are more
<larsu> so testing is in order
<seb128> larsu, \o/
<desrt> $(GLIB_COMPILE_SCHEMAS) $(top_srcdir)/gtk --targetdir=$(builddir)
<desrt> oh man...
<seb128> Laney, please test https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/glib2.0/2.39.1-0ubuntu2/+build/5281151
<seb128> Laney, thanks ;-)
<desrt> larsu: strictly speaking, this is no longer valid....
 * seb128 doesn't want to be the one who screwed glib on a friday evening
<Laney> seb128: anything in particular?
<larsu> desrt: why not?
<larsu> what's you issue with it?
<larsu> *your
<desrt> larsu: gsettings now assumes the xml will be in the same directory as gschemas.compiled, so this will break out-of-tree
<seb128> Laney, just make sure rhythmbox & sessions are working on amd64 (I tested on i386)
<Laney> ok, sec
<desrt> but it only breaks if you call _get_description() or _get_summary() in the testcase
<desrt> which i assume you're not
<larsu> desrt: so ... --target-dir is now useless?
<seb128> Laney, thanks
<desrt> larsu: i was going to remove it... that's why i mention it
<desrt> i stopped using it from the glib testcases
<desrt> maybe i'll keep it around if others use it, though
<larsu> no, please remove it
<desrt> larsu: as long as you're not looking at summary/description, you're in the clear...
<larsu> desrt: I'm not, but this line seems to be causing issues anyway
<larsu> seb128 is now compiling with this https://launchpadlibrarian.net/157881868/gtk%2B3.0_3.10.5-0ubuntu1~build1.3_3.10.5-0ubuntu1~build2.diff.gz
<desrt> larsu: fwiw, i'd also advise not to give a dir like you did there but rather specify the individual schema files
<desrt> although maybe it makes sense this way if people add other tests that use schemas
<larsu> this is for the generic test
<desrt> but in general, having wildcards in makefile depends is a _big_ no-no
<larsu> I agree
<desrt> i think the gmake manual has a section about why not to do that :p
<larsu> but I thought people won't think about addind their new schemas to this test
<desrt> larsu: they will when the test stops working?
<larsu> but then, they probably will after running `make check`
<larsu> ya
<desrt> there is some --schema-file= flag that you can use
<desrt> you can probably use $(addprefix,--schema-file=,$(files)) or something to generate what you need
<larsu> okay, thanks
<larsu> desrt: any idea why the test still fails?
<desrt> let me apply it
<larsu> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/157877308/buildlog_ubuntu-trusty-i386.gtk%2B3.0_3.10.5-0ubuntu1~build1.3_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<desrt> i still don't fully understand what's going on here
<larsu> desrt: I'm installing the things and then set GSETTINGS_SCHEMA_DIR from inside the test (with g_test_build_filename)
<mhr3> is trusty screwed?
<mhr3> https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-unity/+archive/daily-build-next/+recipebuild/596169
<mhr3> seb128, ^?
<seb128> mhr3, ask on #ubuntu-devel
<seb128> seems like a launchpad/soyuz issue
<seb128> maybe those builders are having a too old apt/dpkg or something
<mhr3> will do, thx
<seb128> yw
<ali1234> so i did a make install of lightdm, and it totally broke the system. what's the fastest way to get test builds installed?
<seb128> ali1234, build a deb, install it
<ali1234> lame. that takes ages :(
<seb128> ali1234, you can also "debuild" once, so it's built with the right configure options, etc
<seb128> and hack; make; sudo cp binary
<seb128> if there is one specific binary you hack on
<seb128> like the main lightdm binary
<ali1234> that sounds like a plan, thanks
<seb128> ali1234, yw
<desrt> larsu: so it's the installed case that's failing?
<larsu> desrt: no
<larsu> I don't think the gtk debian package does installed tests
<desrt> so "make check" is the fail
<seb128> yes
<larsu> make check on an out-of-tree build
<larsu> seb128: right?^^
<seb128> yes
<larsu> seb128 is very efficient
<Laney> would be nice to add installed tests too ;-)
<larsu> Laney: yup, but let's make it build without hacks, first ;)
 * Laney fast forwards 60 years to himself as a skeleton in a library covered in dust writing a changelog entry "Enable installed tests"
<Laney> :P
<larsu> haha
 * larsu would definitely do different things if he were a skeleton in a library
<desrt> larsu: so you have an interesting problem here
<larsu> no brain?
<desrt> no...
<desrt> it's a bit of an annoying catch 22
<desrt> you can't use g_test_build_filename() until after you call g_test_init()
<desrt> but in these tests, it's gtk_test_init()
<larsu> bah
<desrt> which calls gtk_init()
<desrt> which presumably initialises the schemas sources
<larsu> right
<desrt> so by the time you set GSETTINGS_SCHEMA_DIR it's too late
<seb128> desrt, larsu: as much as I like you figuring that out, can we get the indicator-power fix approved so it lands before the w.e?
<seb128> then we can go back to fixing stuff that are not hitting users
<larsu> seb128: good point. Let me fix it up for desrt
<seb128> larsu, thanks
<desrt> larsu: i'll see if i can figure out a way around this.  i have an idea.
 * larsu already has it open, was just distracted
<larsu> desrt: is this the problem why the build fails?
<desrt> the _build_ fails?  or make check?
<larsu> make check
<desrt> maybe
<desrt> i'm checking my assumptions and finding them to be false, in fact
<desrt> it looks like gtk_init() doesn't bring up the schemas sources
<larsu> seb128: in the meantime, do you have time to test/approve https://code.launchpad.net/~larsu/overlay-scrollbar/fix-for-3.10/+merge/196920
<seb128> larsu, sure
 * seb128 discovers that gnome-keyring dialogs also stopped wrapping with the new GTK
<larsu> seb128: I have that fix open somewhere as well. Crazy Friday.
<seb128> larsu, crazy week you can say, it feels like every day has been like that
<seb128> soon the w.e though!
<larsu> desrt: now I remember. Charles kept the actions around to disconnect from the notify signal
<desrt> i'd rewrite that using g_settings_bind()
<larsu> hm?
<desrt> i assume you're using the notify to update some sort of [something] when the value changes, right?
<larsu> yes, but bind() binds a property, no?
<desrt> (which means, btw.... your patch may be introducing a bug... since the first notify:: will no longer come as it would have before your patch)
<larsu> desrt: he's calling the same function after anyway
 * larsu checked for that
<desrt> anyway... the point is maybe a bit theoretical, but it's a good point:
<larsu> isn't connecting to changed::show-time the right approach?
<desrt> whatever that's tied to is interested in what the gsettings say
<desrt> the fact that the gsettings is changed via a GAction tied into some UI somewhere is a totally separate point
<desrt> so to have these two things tied together is inappropriate coupling
<larsu> yes, I agree. Still, I'd connect it to 'changed' instead of using bind()
<desrt> ie: don't connect to the notify:: signal on the action... connect to the changed signal on GSettings
<desrt> ya.  that's totally fine too.
<larsu> I think we talked about different things but came to the same conclusion :)
<larsu> thanks
<desrt> ya
<desrt> i just had bind() in my head because i always try to do that first
<larsu> right
<seb128> desrt, https://launchpadlibrarian.net/157891618/buildlog_ubuntu-trusty-amd64.glib2.0_2.39.1-0ubuntu3~build1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<seb128> desrt, "GLib:ERROR:/build/buildd/glib2.0-2.39.1/./glib/tests/gwakeuptest.c:109:context_clear: assertion failed: (ctx->pending_tokens == NULL)"
<desrt> larsu: i don't understand your problem with this 'make check' failure
<seb128> desrt, just mentioning it, don't bother about it today, it only happens on the ppa builders for some reason
<desrt> i mean... i found the bug, but i don't understand why you didn't find it
<desrt> larsu: specifically... you set GSETTINGS_SCHEMA_DIR from the defaultvalue test... and it worked
<desrt> you simply did not do the same from the object test...
<desrt> do that, and it works too
<larsu> desrt: the object test failed?
 * larsu looks
 * larsu slaps forehead
<larsu> desrt: sorry :-/
<desrt> larsu: happy to help :)
<larsu> thanks a lot. I should maybe stop doing 10 things at once
<seb128> larsu, sorry about the crazy day/week, I hope it's better next week
<larsu> seb128: no worries :(
<seb128> desrt, saw the build link? (just mentioning it so I'm sure it doesn't get lost in the middle of crossed discussions)
<larsu> s/:(/:)/ of course
<seb128> larsu, speaking of doing 10 things at once, scrollbars work with gtk2 3.8.7 and 3.10.5
<seb128> larsu, I can't change the status on that project though, so I comment approve it
<larsu> seb128: I love how small the patch has become after cimi reviewed the patch
<seb128> larsu, ;-)
<seb128> larsu, so you spent 10 days to write 3 lines of code?
<larsu> seb128: I can't approve either
 * seb128 likes that joke
<seb128> larsu, sorry, it has been a long week ;-)
<Laney> aww
<seb128> Laney, feel unwell? your ps4 arrived? :p
<larsu> :)
<Laney> feeling hurt by your mean joke!
<seb128> oh
<seb128> lol
<seb128> it's friday, I need to do some trolling
<didrocks> seb128: \o/
<seb128> didrocks, glib works?
<didrocks> seb128: no, just read your message
<Laney> go troll on your menu gnome bugs ;-)
<seb128> didrocks, or just liking trolls? ;-)
<didrocks> and back from running :p
<seb128> didrocks, nice!
<didrocks> trolls \o/ is just a coincidence
<seb128> Laney, that's a good point, I spent monday trolling this week
<didrocks> can't type, need to do one letter after another
<seb128> didrocks, freezing out there?
 * Laney gets back to adding the nicer looking axes to the battery graph
<seb128> didrocks, or is it raining?
<seb128> Laney, \o/
<didrocks> seb128: just freezing
<didrocks> so my hands can't type
<Laney> still don't look that good though
<didrocks> it's like if I typed in slow motion :p
<seb128> didrocks, hot shower time:
<seb128> !
<didrocks> I guess so ;)
<Laney> I look with envy at the gnome-system-monitor graphs
<desrt> larsu: we're good?
<seb128> Laney, those which make the system monitor uses 25% of the cpu displaying you what is using cpu? :-)
<larsu> desrt: yes, thanks a lot. If you want another look, I just pushed the fix we talked about: https://code.launchpad.net/~larsu/indicator-power/use-gsettings-actions/+merge/197066
<Laney> haha, they seem alright here (but then again I have a nice i7)
<Laney> even so they look damn sexy while doing it :P
<seb128> (it's better nowadays)
<larsu> desrt: more red \o/
<ali1234> back in the day it was more like 75%
 * desrt resists urge to complain about connect_swapped
<larsu> desrt: I hate doing unrelated changes in one commit
<desrt> one small issue
<larsu> seb128: o-s is approved by cimi. Does it have auto landing?
<desrt> you introduced a race
<seb128> larsu, looks to the bzr log it seems so
<desrt> Laney: here's the other one: https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=719555
<ubot2> Gnome bug 719555 in general "nm-device constructor() wrongly finalizes object during construction" [Critical,Unconfirmed]
<larsu> desrt: it's always about races with you!
<larsu> desrt: which one?
 * larsu doesn't see it
<desrt> larsu: if a signal comes in while you unref the gsettings object, the signal will still be delivered after the unref because the worker thread will have picked up an extra ref
<seb128> larsu, just put a sleep(1) in there, that ought to fix a race if there is one
<larsu> lol
<seb128> ;-)
<Laney> desrt: ta, subscribed
<desrt> larsu: ie: you cannot assume that just because you unref() your [presumed only] copy of the gsettings object, it will stop firing signals
<larsu> desrt: how did I introduce that? (And why is it a problem?)
<desrt> larsu: you don't disconnect from the change signal on the gsettings...
<larsu> desrt: what? This call was there before, I simply changed it
<larsu> I assumed it did the unconnect as well
<desrt> i see addition of a connect, but no addition of a disconnect
<larsu> I don't see an addition of a connect
<larsu> and I was right it's disconnected from
<larsu> charles_ didn't dissapoint!
<desrt> oooh
<desrt> - g_signal_connect_swapped (p->settings, "changed::" SETTINGS_ICON_POLICY_S,
<desrt> 121	- G_CALLBACK(rebuild_header_now), self);
<desrt> 122	+ g_signal_connect_swapped (p->settings, "changed", G_CALLBACK(rebuild_header_now), self);
<desrt> you just expanded the scope
<larsu> yep
<desrt> and it already had a disconnect?
<larsu> yes
<desrt> sorry.  misread the patch.
<larsu> just checked
<larsu> no worries. Can you approve it please?
<larsu> at the top, I mean
<desrt> already did
<larsu> thanks!
<desrt> seb128: larsu didn't need sleep()
<desrt> he fixes his race conditions using IRC
<larsu> I fix race conditions by explaining them away
<larsu> much better than using sleep()
<desrt> this patch now looks very nice :)
<desrt> +10/-70
<larsu> I agree. This review thing kinda works
<seb128> desrt, larsu: thanks ;-)
<desrt> normally i like lots of green
<desrt> (coverage reports, test output, jhbuild results, damned lies)
<desrt> but today i like red
<larsu> desrt: the original bug could have been solved with +2/-0
<larsu> wait, +2/-2
<desrt> adding an initial state of the correct type?
<larsu> yep
<desrt> thanks for not doing that :)
<larsu> twice, for the two actions
<larsu> ya..
<larsu> I knew you wouldn't let _that_ slide :P
 * larsu wouldn't have shown it to you, probably
<seb128> desrt, I'm asking again in case, saw the glib build log a bit earlier?
<seb128> too much going on today :p
<desrt> i think i missed that one :p
<larsu> desrt: speaking of which, did you see the glib build log that seb128 pointed you to earlier?
<seb128> desrt, https://launchpadlibrarian.net/157891618/buildlog_ubuntu-trusty-amd64.glib2.0_2.39.1-0ubuntu3~build1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<seb128>  desrt, "GLib:ERROR:/build/buildd/glib2.0-2.39.1/./glib/tests/gwakeuptest.c:109:context_clear: assertion failed: (ctx->pending_tokens == NULL)"
<desrt> oh
<desrt> you said not to bother looking at that one :p
<seb128> desrt, that's only happening for ppas, not on the archive builder (or it's not constant and ppas got unlucky)
<desrt> seb128: there was a kernel bug at one point that was causing this
<seb128> desrt, right, I just wanted to make sure you saw it
<desrt> maybe the ppa builders still have that old kernel?
<seb128> could be
<seb128> I've the feeling we had the same conversation like a year ago
<Laney> you can see the kernel version at the top
<Laney> looks kinda old
<seb128> that's a recurring topic :p
<desrt> 2.6?  WHAT YEAR IS IT?!?
<desrt> january 2008.  christ.
<Laney> they're probably running hardy or something
<seb128> lol
<desrt> ya.... i hope you don't mind if i don't look further into this one :p
<Laney> Buildd toolchain package versions: launchpad-buildd_119~0.IS.08.04 python-lpbuildd_119~0.IS.08.04 bzr-builder_0.7.2+bzr156-0ubuntu1~1.IS.8.04 bzr_2.4.0-0ubuntu2~11.IS.8.04.
<Laney> yeah ...
<seb128> desrt, ;-)
<Laney> see those version numbers encoded there
<desrt> pretty sure this was before the kernel bug got fixed
<desrt> although...
<desrt> that kernel may be old enough that it lacks eventfd
<seb128> desrt, at least I can discard that as being an issue now
<desrt> in which case this could be a legit bug with our pipe fallback
<desrt> nope.  that kernel had eventfd.
<desrt> oh.  curious.
<desrt> we create the eventfd with EFD_CLOEXEC | EFD_NONBLOCK
<desrt> which didn't exist until 2.6.27
<desrt> failing that, we assume eventfd is not supported and fallback to pipes
<xclaesse> A regression in 13.10 that's getting on my nerves is that every time I suspend when the laptop is docked, if I resume when undocked the screen stay black and the only thing I can do is long-press the shutdown button
<desrt> so it could be that we're seeing a failure of the pipe fallback here (and we don't see it on newer kernels because that codepath doesn't get hit)
<desrt> this would impact non-linux systems too, so it may be worth looking into
<desrt> the weird thing though, is that we have a separate testcase to exercise this fallback, and it doesn't seem to be failing....
<desrt> ...but even in the fallback, we use pipe2()... which is also unsupported on that kernel version...
<larsu> seb128: GtkInfoBar. This is a hack though. https://code.launchpad.net/~larsu/ubuntu-themes/dont-set-all-bgs/+merge/197234
<larsu> but it's a better hack than the one we had before
<larsu> ochosi: ^^
<larsu> and like I said, it might be breaking other stuff as well
<seb128> larsu, looks fine to me, can you nudge Cimi about it?
<seb128> I don't know those css stuff enough to approve it
<larsu> he doesn't seem to either. I'm mostly looking for people to try it out
<seb128> ok, I can do that
<ochosi> larsu: thanks, will take a look at that
<larsu> ochosi: it's not the right fix and you'll still need a patch, but at least it's not as intrusive
<desrt> seb128: the fallback fallback case is running well here.  i blame the old kernel.
<seb128> larsu, seems to work for me (at least for infobars), I'm going to keep running it and watching for glitches
<desrt> and i don't really feel like reproducing my thinking from a year ago
<seb128> desrt, ok, great, don't bother more about it then
<seb128> desrt, thanks for checking
<larsu> ochosi: and I'd appreciate some more testing. It might be that it still breaks some stuff, I've only been running it for half a day
<seb128> desrt, yeah, I forgot we had that discussion before, I wouldn't have pinged you otherwise
<ochosi> larsu: i'll see what i can do!
<ochosi> larsu: i can't but wonder why this problem can't be tackled in the overlay-scrollbars directly so themes wouldn't have to jump through extra hoops
<seb128> ok, dropping offline for another 15 minutes, brb
<larsu> ochosi: ya, we tried. overlay-scrollbars installs a window filter function which (I think) forces the parent window to become native
<larsu> which breaks bg rendering
<larsu> it would need a refactor of o-s to make this work properly
<larsu> and since we don't know if or how long we'll keep them, we don't want to spend too much time on it right now
<ochosi> maybe gtk will get something like that natively at some point...
<larsu> I highly doubt it
<ochosi> yeah, i understand, the focus is elsewhere at the moment
<Laney> glib autopkgtest failed on i386
<Laney> https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/view/Trusty/view/AutoPkgTest/job/trusty-adt-glib2.0/21/ARCH=i386,label=adt/consoleFull
<Laney> I can't find the failure
<Laney> too much output
<Laney> ah got it
<Laney> no, not got it
<Laney> yes, yes I have
<Laney> GLib:ERROR:/build/buildd/glib2.0-2.39.1/./tests/testglib.c:590:timer_tests: assertion failed (elapsed <= g_timer_elapsed (timer, NULL)): (5e-06 <= 5e-06) Test glib/testglib.test failed: Child process killed by signal 6
<desrt> cute....
<desrt> i love floating point
<seb128> xclaesse, I've that, but it's only visual, e.g if I type my password I'm back to my desktop
<xclaesse> seb128, hm, didn't try typing the password
<seb128> xclaesse, you should ;-)
<seb128> but agreed it's a confusing/annoying be
<seb128> bug
<xclaesse> I tried ctr-alt-f1 then ctr-alt-delete to reboot but it doesn't work
<seb128> weird, maybe it's another issue then
<seb128> going to a vt works for me
<seb128> do you get any apport report about kernel oops or video gpu error?
<xclaesse> I'll let you know if typing the pwd works next time it happens
<xclaesse> seb128, should they appear in /var/crash? nothing related to that there
<seb128> righ
<seb128> right
<seb128> you can also check dmesg/syslog/Xorg.0.log.old I guess
<seb128> but try first if typing your password works
<seb128> in which case that's the same issue I'm seeing here
<seb128> it's a bit weird though, gnome-screensaver didn't change for ages
<seb128> and I didn't remember it doing that before
<seb128> could be a compiz/unity issue of course...
<seb128> bregma, ^ do you know?
<xclaesse> seb128, I don't know if it's the same issue, but a collegue has the same problem on F20
<xclaesse> same symptoms on the same hw
<seb128> weird
<seb128> maybe a video driver issue...
<xclaesse> it's even worse on f20 because it does that when resuming on the dock
<xclaesse> here it fails only when resuming outside of the dock
<seb128> your description sounds like my issue
<seb128> I'm just surprised that going to a vt didn't work
<xclaesse> dunno if f20 has the same kernel/intel drv than 13.10
<ochosi> larsu: hm, i applied that patch to our xubuntu theme, but it seems i still get black areas in gedit's tab-bar. what other fixes are you expecting?
<larsu> ochosi: do you have the new overlay-scrollbars?
<ochosi> larsu: hm, no, i'm still on saucy here
<larsu> https://code.launchpad.net/~larsu/overlay-scrollbar/fix-for-3.10
<larsu> ochosi: I didn't test that, sorry
<ochosi> larsu: i assume this isn't packaged anywhere?
<larsu> ochosi: no, but it should be, soon
<ochosi> ok, would be nice if there could be some update for saucy too (or at least a PPA)
<xclaesse> seb128, just tested, typing pwd doesn't work
<seb128> xclaesse, :-(
<seb128> xclaesse, can you ssh to the machine when that happens? or is it down/locked/frozen?
<xclaesse> sshing it is what I'm trying now, need to find another machine :p
 * xclaesse is alone at office atm
<seb128> cyphermox, hey, can we get indicator-power and overlay-scrollbars landing in trusty?
<cyphermox> seb128: sure
<seb128> indicator-power is needed to fix an issue with the new glib (which is already in trusty) (changing the preferences doesn't work with it)
<cyphermox> indicator-power is also used by touch though, so we need to take the time to test it
<seb128> the scrollbar is to prepare gtk 3.10
<Laney> oh dear
<Laney> just spilt a bit of tea inside my desktop
<cyphermox> oh
<seb128> Laney, turn it off and clean I guess
<xclaesse> "please insert a bootable floppy" --> seriously, latest lenovo laptop's bios are still asking for floppy when the disk is not bootable oO
<Laney> yeah, checking if any actually went inside
<ochosi> larsu: one more question, i thought 14.04 will come with gtk3.8 not 3.10?
<larsu> ochosi: looks like we're getting 3.10
<ochosi> oh
<ochosi> i wasn't aware of that
<larsu> you don't sound very happy about those news ...
<desrt> ...maybe 3.12 :)
 * desrt coughs
<seb128> desrt, yeah, let's see about that
<seb128> desrt, I'm sure larsu is looking forward spending another 10 days fixing some issues in unity due to a GTK update ;-)
<desrt> seb128: after the bumpy ride we've been having with glib and gtk 3.10 i'm surprised you still want to try 3.12 gtk at all :)
<desrt> but i guess it is work that we'd have to do anyway
<seb128> desrt, I should have written "rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrright, let's see about that"
<Laney> I always knew seb128 was a crack pu$ha
<seb128> ;-)
<larsu> desrt: and it seems to be a slow gtk cycle... compared to the last one
<seb128> larsu, LOL
<larsu> but if I have to touch scrollbars again, I'm out
<seb128> larsu, you want to sign for this one?
 * larsu runs far, far away
<seb128> see
<larsu> ;)
<desrt> glib is the fun one this cycle (after a slow last cycle)
<seb128> it's going to take us a good cycle to recover from all the fun we are having
<seb128> desrt, yeah, making rhythmbox and n-m not run, you are having a good start
<desrt> seb128: i'm sure we'll get a pair of fixes there on monday or tuesday
<larsu> you broke rhythmbox?!
<desrt> larsu: soup, more specifically
<larsu> how so?
<desrt> larsu: soup has a gobject constructor that finalizes the constructed object, during construction
<larsu> what does rhythmbox use soup on startup for?
<seb128> larsu, but putting a new construction restriction with a g_error, without checking if anyone was doing the stupid things out there
<larsu> desrt: lol
<desrt> larsu: soup-service... presumably media sharing
<seb128> what desrt said
<larsu> we have that enabled by default?
<seb128> the bt is in the daap code
<seb128> well, I do on my laptop
<larsu> ah, okay
<seb128> I'm sure others do
<larsu> I think it's not enabled by default, but many people have it
<desrt> amusingly, the person who added the assert to glib is danw
<desrt> and the person who wrote that constructor in soup is.... danw
<larsu> who also maintains soup?
<larsu> ya :D
<desrt> it gets better
<desrt> the last person to touch the constructor code in n-m is...... danw
<larsu> how do you write a constructor that finalizes the object?
<larsu> ha, brilliant
<mhr3> seb128, i know how we can get most of the bugs fixed - we just need to ensure they happen on your computer ;)
<ochosi> larsu: nah, i've prepared our themes already for 3.10. usually gtk3 updates suck because they break theming everywhere (otherwise, what would themers do all day?)
<desrt> think GInitable
<ochosi> larsu: i was just really sure 14.04 was going with 3.8 for some reason
<desrt> implemented via g_object_new() returning NULL
<larsu> ochosi: ya, that was the original play I think. Or at least, it was discussed
<larsu> desrt: ugh
<seb128> ochosi, you probably remember https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-desktop/2013-October/004311.html
<desrt> larsu: ya...
<desrt> larsu: thing is, it's never been valid... it always leaked memory
<seb128> ochosi, read https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-desktop/2013-November/004343.html if you are interested in the current plans
<desrt> because we keep a linked-list of in-construction objects in gobject.c
<Laney> err
<Laney> now the tests failed on amd64
<desrt> and if you return NULL from your custom constructor, it never gets removed from that list
<Laney> http://d-jenkins.ubuntu-ci:8080/view/Trusty/view/AutoPkgTest/job/trusty-adt-glib2.0/22/ARCH=amd64,label=adt/consoleFull
<ochosi> thanks seb128
<desrt> Laney: is there a way for us normal humans to view these webpages?
<Laney> oops I meant to link to the public one
<Laney> http://d-jenkins.ubuntu-ci:8080/view/Trusty/view/AutoPkgTest/job/trusty-adt-glib2.0/22/ARCH=amd64,label=adt/consoleFull
<Laney> WHAT
<larsu> that tea is messing with your clipboard!
<desrt> just one of those days
<Laney> https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/view/Trusty/view/AutoPkgTest/job/trusty-adt-glib2.0/22/ARCH=amd64,label=adt/consoleFull
<Laney> suspicious one to fail ...
<ochosi> seb128: nice to read that you're also taking into account the CSD problem for non-gnome desktops. xubuntu folks will happy to hear
<seb128> ochosi, ;-)
<desrt> GLib-GObject:ERROR:/build/buildd/glib2.0-2.39.1/./gobject/tests/object.c:134:test_object_constructor_infanticide: stderr of child process (/object/constructor/infanticide/subprocess [17405]) failed to match: *finalized while still in-construction*
<desrt> seb128: looks like you forgot to revert the testcase that tested those comits you reverted :)
<seb128> desrt, I didn't
<seb128> or was that a different commit ?
<seb128> it passed fine on i386
<seb128> wth?
<Laney> why doesn't it fail all the time?
<Laney> it passed on amd64 previously too
<seb128> desrt, that's the revert, https://launchpadlibrarian.net/157885850/glib2.0_2.39.1-0ubuntu1_2.39.1-0ubuntu2.diff.gz
<desrt> i wonder if we're running the old set of installed tests against the new glib?
<Laney> ah, could be
<desrt> and by old i mean new and by new i mean reverted
<xclaesse> seb128, just tested, I cannot even ping my laptop after resume
<seb128> xclaesse, seems like a kernel issue then :/
<xclaesse> seb128, I see /var/crash/susres.2013-11-29_12:12:51.860919.crash
<xclaesse> dunno if it's related
<seb128> xclaesse, do you have an oops in dmesg/syslog?
<seb128> xclaesse, seems likely yes
<Laney> + spec=/tmp/adt-run.yxo4nf/dsc0/glib2.0_2.39.1-0ubuntu1.dsc
<Laney> that's the previous one
<Laney> argh
<seb128> how is that happening?
<Laney> JENKIIIIIIIINNNNNNNNSSSSSSSSSSSSS
<desrt> in general i think it does make sense to run the old set of installed tests against the new library
<desrt> can catch ABI break type issues
<desrt> but in this case it's obviously a problem since reverting that patch intentionally broke ABI...
<Laney> W: Failed to fetch bzip2:/var/lib/apt/lists/partial/ftpmaster.internal_ubuntu_dists_trusty-proposed_main_source_Sources Hash Sum mismatch
<Laney>  E: Some index files failed to download. They have been ignored, or old ones used instead.
<Laney> actually W: Failed to fetch bzip2:/var/lib/apt/lists/partial/ftpmaster.internal_ubuntu_dists_trusty_universe_binary-amd64_Packages Hash Sum mismatch is more relevant
<xclaesse> seb128, I don't see anything special in dmesg, but I think it only contains the msg from last boot
<desrt> Laney: you're back in your world now and out of mine :)
 * Laney stabs
<larsu> seb128: bad news about the message dialog problem (which I've finally gotten around to)
 * desrt goes back to happily hacking on dconf
<larsu> seb128: my fix doesn't work for many apps (including gedit), because they use custom dialogs
<Laney> hmm, I don't know if I believe that though
<xclaesse> seb128, another really annoying issue is windows changing its virtual desktop every time there is a screen change
<Laney> jibel: you around?
<seb128> larsu, *great*
 * seb128 head->desk
<seb128> loving GTK
<larsu> seb128: I had a feeling this is how you'd respond
<larsu> so now, we'd really have to fix apps themselves...
<seb128> larsu, that's fine, it's almost beer'o'clock
<larsu> right. I don't plan on doing it now :)
<attente> seb128, is ctrl+alt+t working for you under a russian layout?
<seb128> attente, no, and it was no in 13.04 stock issue either when I tried iirc
<attente> seb128, i don't know why, but it seems to be working in 14.04
<Laney> jibel: if/when you are - could you take a look at https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/view/Trusty/view/AutoPkgTest/job/trusty-adt-glib2.0/22/ARCH=amd64,label=adt/consoleFull please?
<attente> seb128, and there's also no conflict with ctrl+shift+t in gnome-terminal either
<seb128> attente, that doesn't make sense, we didn't change things there
<Laney> jibel: The installed-tests test installs an old libglib2.0-tests which makes the test fail
<attente> seb128, it's really weird... everything's working :/
<Laney> but the 'build' test got the current correct glib
<seb128> attente, can you try with another keybinding? ctrl-alt-t is handled by compiz as well
<seb128> it's a special case
<seb128> like ctrl-alt-l might be a better one
<seb128> or assign ctrl-alt-c to gnome-calculator
<attente> ah. ok. things make sense again
<attente> it doesn't really explain why ctrl-shift-t would work though...
<attente> oh right... never mind
<attente> the key binding wasn't set properly
<xclaesse> seb128, larsu: why can't you just revert the commit that introduce the regression? or maybe just in ubuntu package...
<xclaesse> (about the gtk issue, I've read backlog on #gtk+)
<seb128> xclaesse, I'm thinking about it
<seb128> it would have been nice to fix it properly/upstream though
<xclaesse> if the fix only fix something in anaconda, and make everything else regress, that really seems a good candidate for revert
<xclaesse> at least for ubuntu which is not impacted at all
<seb128> right
<desrt> seb128, Laney, xclaesse: is there some kind of 'best practice' for upstreams that want accounts created for their software?
<seb128> well, the previous behaviour was sort of a hack
<seb128> the thing is that half the universe rely on that wrapping at 640
<desrt> or is it more or less something that the packager is supposed to recognise and take care of?
<seb128> desrt, "accounts"?
<desrt> ya... like gdm for example
<desrt> it needs a gdm user/group created
<seb128> oh
<seb128> you mean system accounts
<desrt> ya
<seb128> like gdm running under its own user?
<seb128> that's something done in the postinst etc
<desrt> yes.  precisely.
<seb128> so no, just file a bug request is in the distro bug tracker
<seb128> or put a note in NEWS and hope the packager see it
<desrt> is there a best practice for the upstream project to indicate that it wants distro packages to create such an account?
<desrt> hrmph.
<desrt> walters: how does gnome-continuous deal with this, if you don't mind?
<desrt> seb128: i guess you can't fail the ./configure because the account doesn't exist... because the account would only be created in the postinst....
 * desrt wonders about 'make install' rules that need to install files with correct ownership
<seb128> desrt, right
<desrt> tricky business, this is :)
<seb128> desrt, same issue, make install is often ran as anuser
<seb128> desrt, yeah, we change permissions in the postinst when needed as well
<desrt> seems like there ought to be a better way....
 * desrt wants /var/lib/dconf for the phone stuff, but wants it owned by dconf:dconf for the future when system dbs are written there
<desrt> if the way you normally deal with that is chown from a postinst script anyway then maybe i should just wait until when the account is actually needed, and then the (existing) dir can be chowned at that point?
<seb128> right
 * desrt takes a look at some of the prior art here
<walters> desrt: i have a hardcoded list https://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-ostree-integration/tree/src/lib-passwd
<walters> which works fine because the set of software is also a hardcoded list
<Laney> seb128: lp:~laney/ubuntu-system-settings/graph-dashed-axes
<Laney> not MPing it yet because I think I need to adjust the drawing of the actual line to not go over the axes
<Laney> but you could branch off that to do your labels stuff
 * Laney is off, have a good weekend all
<desrt> walters: might break when i add an account for dconf...
<desrt> seb128: so....
<desrt> if [ -d /var/lib/gdm ]; then chown gdm:gdm /var/lib/gdm chown -R gdm:gdm /var/lib/gdm/.gconf* chmod 0750 /var/lib/gdm
<desrt> fi
<desrt> ie: we only chown/chmod in the case that we create the directory for the first time
<desrt> which i think is a pretty sane thing to do
<desrt> because you don't want to override the sysadmin's preference if he set it to something else and you're just upgrading the existing package
<desrt> seb128: sort of suggests that i should ask you to make the account even if i'm not using it yet, so that you can create the directory with the correct perms
<seb128> desrt, right, we can also do trick like "if upgrade from version <; then chown"
<desrt> that's possible?
<seb128> yes
<desrt> neat
<seb128> that's how we do migrations
<desrt> maybe i shouldn't worry, then
<seb128> but the snippet you copied would do it every time no?
<seb128> if [ directory exists ] ...
<desrt> oh uh ya.. i read that backwards
<desrt> what a strange rule
<seb128> well, if postinsts hit an error your upgrade/install fails
<seb128> so you need to check that something exists before trying to chown it
<desrt> i'm guessing gdm creates that dir in 'make install' and it's in an .install file
<seb128> otherwise if somebody delete the dir it screws the package installation
<desrt> or maybe adduser makes it
<desrt> okay.  so if we don't care about this sort of stuff then i _really_ don't care :)
<seb128> well, better we safe than sorry
 * desrt proceeds naively
<seb128> ;-)
<seb128> we->be
<seb128> but yeah, don't worry about that
<seb128> Laney, ok, I'm not going to work on that before next week but good to know ;-)
<desrt> Laney: how's the u-s-d/u-c-c stuff going?
<seb128> desrt, robert_ancell is working on it, he has a vcs for both, he sent me an email this morning on u-c-c being working
 * seb128 needs to test that next week
<desrt> that's going to be fun.... how do you think you manage the transition there?
<seb128> what transition?
<desrt> straight replaces/conflits stuff?
<seb128> robert_ancell is doing it in a way where they don't conflict
<desrt> seb128: like... what if we see that gnome-shell is installed and unity is not, at the time of dist-upgrade?
<seb128> which I think is crazy
<desrt> seb128: i mean how do we decide which of (new g-c-c)/(u-c-c) to install at time of upgrade?
<seb128> unity is going to depends on u-c-c
<desrt> that'll do it
<seb128> which is going to bring it for sure
<seb128> how we clean out g-c-c is to be seen
<seb128> we have hooks in update-manager
<seb128> worth thing it's a leftover on disk
<desrt> right.  makes sense as a dist-upgrade task
<seb128> it shouldn't show in unity, it's going to be OnlyShowIn=GNOME
<desrt> if someone does it via apt manually then they get extra packages.  no big deal.
<seb128> right
<desrt> seb128: i'd rather suggest NotShowIn=Unity
<seb128> yeah, it's friday evening, I was not thinking details
<desrt> cool.   glad to hear it's coming along nicely, in any case
<seb128> just that we are going to tweak visibilities
<seb128> yeah
<seb128> we "just" need to solve the libgnome-desktop issue
<desrt> being able to keep up to date with g-s-d/g-c-c will be really nice... a good reason for having latest gtk
<seb128> I'm pondering just having a code copy of the functions of the old version in u-c-c
<desrt> what's the problem here?
<larsu> desrt just won't stop trying :)
<seb128> they changed the xrandr code
<larsu> "a good reason for having latest gtk"
<desrt> oh.  right.
<seb128> rather than talking xrandr
<seb128> it's talking gnome-shell dbus
<seb128> ideally we would have compatible dbus interfaces in unity
<seb128> but I don't think that's going to happen this cycle
<desrt> hard to argue about this being unfriendly to non-gnome desktops when it's in a library called libgnome-desktop :p
<seb128> hehe
<seb128> well, anyway, that's fine, just copy a couple of .c in u-c-c
<desrt> we'll eventually need such an interface no matter what
<seb128> until we get a similar interface in unity
<desrt> since xrandr is going away
<seb128> right
<desrt> might be a good topic for the desktop summit
<seb128> I just don't want to block anyone on that to happen
<seb128> oh, desktop summit
<seb128> did I mention that I want a common dbus interface for session stuff
<desrt> inhibit and such?
<seb128> like close the session
<larsu> hm, interesting
<seb128> or "show me the logout dialog"
<desrt> ya.  we hope to talk about this
<desrt> trying to get bastien to come this year....
<seb128> or rather the "reboot" dialog
<larsu> that could make unity stop exposing an interface in the org.gnome namespace
<seb128> right
<desrt> this stuff ought to be in org.freedesktop to the greatest extent possible
<seb128> it could also make e.g software-properties stop calling gnome-session-quit
<desrt> even the resolution stuff.... i can't imagine mir would be that different from wayland
<desrt> so we may as well just copy gnome designs there
<seb128> right
<desrt> and rename to org.freedesktop...
<seb128> otherwise it's going to be the same as the session stuff
<larsu> last time we talked about this, there was some controversy around how to end a session
<larsu> like, should apps be able to inhibit
<desrt> larsu: KILLALL
<seb128> we are going to claim being org.gnome.shell or something
<seb128> and some people are going to be angry at us
<desrt> larsu: there is no controvery.  there is only one right way :)
<larsu> desrt: obviously you were on the one side of the controversy
<desrt> seb128: ya... that would just be ridiculous
<desrt> larsu: apps can register blocks to logout _with user visible reason only_
<desrt> this will cause dialogs to be shown when the user picks 'logout'
<larsu> hm? How would that look in practice?
<larsu> ah the shell shows a dialog with a string that the apps giveit?
<desrt> beyond that, if the logout is going to proceed _nothing_ can stop it
<desrt> larsu: yes.  that's why we have inhibit 'reasons'
<larsu> ew have those now?
<larsu> *we
<desrt> but a very simple desktop environment could also implement it by poking each of those apps asking them to resolve the issue
<desrt>  gtk_application_inhibit             (GtkApplication *application, GtkWindow *window, GtkApplicationInhibitFlags flags, const gchar *reason);
<larsu> right - but does gnome shell support this?
<desrt> yes
<desrt> when you logout the dialog shows something like:
<larsu> mind = blown
<desrt> Can't log out because:
<desrt>  - gedit
<desrt>    2 unsaved documents
<desrt> ( Do it anyway )  ( Cancel )
<larsu> does unity do this as well?
<desrt> this is the really correct way
 * larsu tries
<desrt> but it's also acceptable, i think, to have the app in question pop up the dialog for itself
<desrt> particularly if there is only one
<larsu> no, it doesn't :-/
<larsu> ya, that's what unity does
<desrt> what is absolutely unacceptable, however, is for apps to have "tell me when you're about to logout and i may or may not stop the process and/or may do some cleanup..."
<larsu> apparently only for one app at a time, thought
<larsu> *though
<larsu> desrt: ya, that's ridiculous
<seb128> unity doesn't do anything
<seb128> gnome-session does that
<desrt> larsu: it's currently possible.  it needs to go away.
<larsu> seb128: right, I meant unity-as-the-desktop
<desrt> cleanup needs to go in SIGTERM handlers
<desrt> and if someone wants to _stop_ the logout, they need to know ahead of time that they will do so, and they must give a user-visible reason
<larsu> and most of the time, no cleanup should be necessary
<desrt> well
<desrt> apps may want to sync their state
<desrt> something like bijiben for example
<desrt> anyway.... this really ought to be on the desktop summit agenda
<desrt> it's shameful that this isn't a freedesktop-level spec yet
<larsu> let's write one :)
<seb128> ok, calling it a week, have a nice w.e everyone!
#ubuntu-desktop 2014-11-24
<Sweet5hark> moin
<larsu> moin Sweet5hark!
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<mlankhorst> morning
<didrocks> good morning
<larsu> bonjour!
<darkxst> seb128, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/totem/+bug/1393067/comments/8?
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1393067 in totem (Ubuntu) "totem 3.14" [Wishlist,Confirmed]
<didrocks> hey larsu
<larsu> didrocks: happy monday! How are you?
<didrocks> larsu: I'm great, thanks! Yourself?
<seb128> hey didrocks mlankhorst darkxst
<larsu> didrocks: awesome, thanks!
<didrocks> bon lundi seb128 :)
<seb128> darkxst, no strong opinion, I guess things like open still make sense there, but having no menu in the browser view would work as well
<seb128> didrocks, 'ci, toi aussi ;-)
<didrocks> merci ;)
<darkxst> seb128, open/open-location are about the only things that do make sense there and they are available via the "plus" button
<darkxst> I could probably make the menu only show in player
<seb128> yeah
<darkxst> seb128, ok, will sort something along those lines
<seb128> thanks
<Sweet5hark> "cpu 7 hanging for 22sec" is not a message I want to read again today ...
<mlankhorst> you borked it
<willcooke> morning all
<mlankhorst>  morning!
<willcooke> hi mlankhorst, how's it going?
<didrocks> hey willcooke, mlankhorst
<didrocks> willcooke: got better?
<willcooke> didrocks, nearly :)  Still coughing
<mlankhorst> aw too bad
<ogra_> smoke more, the tar will cover it ;)
<willcooke> ogra_, ha!  I switched to electronic ones, perhaps that's part of the problem
<ogra_> heh
<Laney> ahoy
<willcooke> ello Laney
<willcooke> Laney, properly cold today, got below zero for the first time last night
<Laney> what's up
<willcooke> not the temperature
<Laney> seems to have been a real frost
<seb128> hey Laney, had a good w.e?
<seb128> hey willcooke
<willcooke> morning seb128
<seb128> willcooke, why was the tpm workitems deleted?
<willcooke> seb128, https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-1504-full-disk-encryption-with-tpm
<willcooke> replaced by that ^^
<willcooke> and made a dependancy
<willcooke> *dependency
<Laney> not bad thanks, been preparing stuff at $newhouse
<Laney> (also climbing)
<Laney> (muhahaha)
<Laney> you?
<seb128> willcooke, great, thanks
<willcooke> seb128, thank robert_ancell :)
<seb128> Laney, oh, you get the $newhouse keys?
<Laney> yup
<seb128> Laney, good w.e, shopping, swimming, relaxing ;-)
<Laney> so many holes
<Laney> they really liked screwing things into the wall
<darkxst> hey laney
<Laney> yo darkxst
<darkxst> Laney, can something happen with bug 1379446
<ubot5> bug 1379446 in deja-dup (Ubuntu) "gnome-control-center.real crashed with SIGSEGV in gtk_lock_button_set_permission()" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1379446
<darkxst> I might drop external panel patches for V, but that needs to be fixed in U
<Laney> patch piloting this afternoon, will look then
<darkxst> Laney, ok thanks
<Laney> np
<darkxst> hmm why is there no Utopic in "nominate series"?
<Laney> probably because it's already nominated
<Sweet5hark1> ricotz: btw are you planning to backport the 4.3.4~rc1 (=final build) in the ppa for trusty/precise?
<ricotz> Sweet5hark1, uploaded just this moment
<Sweet5hark1> ricotz: oh, heh. awesome!
<ricotz> Sweet5hark1, was about to say, please inform me about new uploads
<Sweet5hark1> ricotz: yes, this one was out of the usual row for https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=85614 ...
<ubot5> Freedesktop bug 85614 in Spreadsheet "Accelerate 4.3.4 release to resolve sorting issue with 4.2.7 and 4.3.3" [Critical,Resolved: fixed]
<ricotz> Sweet5hark1, i know, i actually meant if you push a new build to some ppa which is worth my attention
<ricotz> e.g. 4.4.0~beta2
<GunnarHj> Hi seb128!
<seb128> hey GunnarHj
<GunnarHj> seb128: Thinking of having the equivalent of "sudo apt-get install $(check-language-support)" be run without opening the language-selector UI, either in update-manager or as autostart. Any spontaneous thoughts?
<ricotz> Sweet5hark1, 4.4.0~beta1 even ;)
<seb128> GunnarHj, downloading/installing thing without asking the user is poor taste ... or do you mean having update-manager prompting about that on first run? don't we have a such prompt on first login after installation?
<Sweet5hark1> ricotz: still in the works ;)
<GunnarHj> seb128: Only on first run, and only if you install without internet. The issue is that some language packs (e.g. firefox) are silently uninstalled sometimes. So the idea is to ensure that everything is there.
<GunnarHj> seb128: I agree that prompting would be nicer, and in that case update-manager would be the place, I suppose.
<seb128> GunnarHj, the cases where they are uninstalled shouldn't happen if you use the graphical tools, it should rather hold on some package updates than uninstall
<GunnarHj> seb128: Wasn't aware of that distinction. OTOH, how do you prevent users from installing from terminal?
<seb128> GunnarHj, no we don't, but those who are technical enough to do that are responsible for what they are doing
<GunnarHj> seb128: You have to admin that uninstalling is nonintuitive behavior. I for one don't understand why it happens.
<GunnarHj> s/admin/admit/
<seb128> GunnarHj, well, don't use dist-upgrade, just use "upgrade", it does the safe thing
<seb128> those issues also only happen in dev series
<seb128> non technical users run stable series
<seb128> so you have a biased view on who is impacted
<GunnarHj> seb128: Are you absolutely sure it only happens in dev series?
<seb128> GunnarHj, why would it happen on stable series?
<seb128> and how?
<GunnarHj> seb128: Don't know. Don't know. I have still seen it happen (I think). So have others.
<GunnarHj> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-translators/2014-November/006721.html
<GunnarHj> https://launchpad.net/bugs/1395273
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1395273 in Ubuntu Translations "Scottish Gaelic gone after update" [High,Triaged]
<mitya57> Laney: thanks for testing, I see that sphinx built on ppc64el, I'll now comment on debian bug report.
<mitya57> powerpc ftbfs seems to be a different issue
<Laney> ok cool, I'll merge again once it's fixed there
<Laney> did you save the buildlog?
 * Laney will free the ppa
<mitya57> let me save it
<mitya57> saved
<Laney> ta
<Laney> btw I think you would have had the powers to do this yourself
<Laney> for reference
<didrocks> larsu: do you have a minute to peer-review some patches before I sent them systemd upstream? (More on checking the C side of things)
<larsu> didrocks: sure
<larsu> !
<didrocks> larsu: http://people.canonical.com/~didrocks/tmp/systemd/
<didrocks> thanks :)
<larsu> didrocks: keep in mind that I don't know systemd internals at all...
<didrocks> larsu: yeah, it's more to see if you can spot any big hurdle on the way
<Sweet5hark1> seb128: are you still going to upload 4.3.3/vivid? by now we have a 4.3.4 in the ppa for utopic (and ricotz actually already did a forward port to vivid) ...
<seb128> Sweet5hark1, I did on friday
<seb128> Sweet5hark1, you should start paying attention ;-)
<seb128> you should have receiving emails for the uploads?
<seb128> I also wrote you on this channel to say I uploaded...
<larsu> didrocks: do they use 'bool' in other places? That's a C99ism.
<ricotz> Sweet5hark1, i remember saying just put 4.3.4rc1 into vivid back then too ;)
<didrocks> larsu: there is some in udev, vconsole
<larsu> ok
<didrocks> larsu: should I switch to int?
<larsu> you should use what surrounding functions ise
<larsu> afaik they use c99 quite a bit, so it's probably not a technical issue, just a coding convention one
<didrocks> larsu: sure, there is no bool on that file, so I will just turn that to an int
<willcooke> Sweet5hark1, are you free to talk about the spreadsheet / reference issue right now?
<seb128> Sweet5hark1, ricotz, well, we can do another upload, it's not like builders couldn't handle it
<larsu> didrocks: in 0002 line 53: path_kill_slashes modifies the string you pass it? In that case, you can't pass it a literal...
<larsu> didrocks: casting a (const char*) to a (char*) is almost always a bad sign of something like this happening
<larsu> (in line 56)
<didrocks> larsu: it's an exact copy of what Lennart is doing some lines below (the function we discussed on Friday), I didn't dear changing the approach
<didrocks>                 etc_machine_id = strappenda(root, "/etc/machine-id");
<didrocks>                 path_kill_slashes((char*) etc_machine_id);
<didrocks> dare*
<larsu> right, strappenda makes you a stack-allocated version of the string, you can modify it
<larsu> but you assign a constant in line 53
<larsu> didrocks: forget everything I just said
<ricotz> Sweet5hark1, seb128, i guess it isn't that imported while 4.4.0~beta1 is out and in preparation
 * larsu gets some glasses :(
 * didrocks uses MIB device
<larsu> didrocks: line 61, *independent (a -> e)
<larsu> didrocks: lol
<didrocks> larsu: argh, always doing that one, thanks! :)
<larsu> didrocks: you pass %m into log_error() a couple of times but there's no arg to match that - does log_error() put something into that?
<didrocks> larsu: yeah, it's taking the last errno and convert it to a sensible string
<larsu> neat
<didrocks> yeah ;)
<Sweet5hark1> seb128: hmmm, didnt get an email from builders about the upload -- strange. And https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libreoffice didnt show any news ...
<seb128> Sweet5hark1, you mean "show any news"?
<Sweet5hark1> seb128: urgh, indeed. *facepalm*
<seb128> :-)
<Sweet5hark1> seb128: /me started the day at 7am and apparently didnt adjust the caffeine intake for that. sorry for the noise. :/
<seb128> Sweet5hark1, no worry, 4.3.3 is in, we can do another upload whenever there is an update/something you want to get in
<larsu> didrocks: looks good to me otherwise (but like I said, don't know much about systemd)
<didrocks> larsu: thanks a lot, fixing the typo and having the bool -> int are nice recommendations, doing that and proposing :)
<didrocks> larsu: was fun to play with mount ns :)
<larsu> didrocks: good luck ;)
<Sweet5hark1> seb128: 4.3.3 was security relevant, I dont care _too_ much for other 4.3 bugfixes in vivid, when we ship with 4.4 anyway.
<larsu> didrocks: yeah I can imagine
<didrocks> thanks!
<Sweet5hark1> seb128: thx for the upload.
<seb128> yw!
<Sweet5hark1> seb128, willcooke: hangout now would work for me ...
<willcooke> Sweet5hark1, I think seb128 is about to go out for lunch
<GunnarHj> seb128: To conclude what we were talking about a few minutes ago: You don't encourage me to proceed with the idea to guard against absent language support packages along those lines. Is that so?
<Sweet5hark1> seb128, willcooke: fine for me, actually I originally planned to start pinging you guys about this at 1300CET (in ~one hour) ...
<mitya57> Trevinho: hi, are you going to make a new upstream release of libwnck?
<mitya57> Some upstream patches are important for us â see https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libwnck3/+bug/1293252/comments/14
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1293252 in libwnck3 (Ubuntu) "gnome-panel crashed with signal 5 in _XReply()" [Medium,Confirmed]
<didrocks> larsu: polished latest contents + tested and sent! Thanks very much for your review :)
<larsu> didrocks: thumbs up!
<ochosi> hey folks, quick question, where is the code for the light themes at? https://launchpad.net/light-themes seems awfully unconfigured and messy
<larsu> ochosi: over here https://launchpad.net/ubuntu-themes
<ochosi> oh
<ochosi> thanks larsu
<larsu> ochosi: be aware that I'm doing some extensive changes to the gtk3 theme at the moment :)
<ochosi> ok, good to know, i just wanted to check some code cause i got a bugreport about indicator-menus in unity-panel not having properly styled checkboxes
<larsu> with 3.14?
<ochosi> oh, are you pulling in suru icons for 15.04?
<larsu> unlikely
<ochosi> not sure, the guy didn't specify, so i thought i'd check your code for unity-panel
<ochosi> oh, i misinterpreted a commit msg there, that repo holds more than just light-themes...
 * ochosi <- silly
<larsu> :)
<ochosi> i considered starting a port
<ochosi> but otoh it makes no sense to port suru icons when they're not used in uniyt
<ochosi> so are you porting ambiance to sass or what's the "extensive change"?
<larsu> no, I don't care about that... just moving stuff from -assets.css and -borders.css into the main css file and removing unnecessary stuff
<larsu> there's lots of unneeded and duplicated rules
<ochosi> mm, yeah, noticed that :)
<ochosi> easier to cope with less files
<larsu> also lots of hacks that were added for previous versions of applications, but aren't needed anymore
<larsu> sadly I need to wade through blame to find those out
 * larsu wishes people had put comments
<larsu> ochosi: yes, and also stuff is breaking with the new gtk the way we did it before
<ochosi> yeah, maintaining themes for gtk3 has become a lot more laborious than gtk2 ever was
<ochosi> well, as always :)
<ochosi> i mean with every major gtk3 release i had to adapt my theme
<larsu> well, you get a lot of cool additional stuff though
<ochosi> agreed
<larsu> right, that's a bit annoying
<Trevinho> mitya57: yes that was planned
<ochosi> agreed again :)
<mitya57> Trevinho: thanks. If you do it soon, then I'll wait for it instead of adding more patches.
<Trevinho> mitya57: done
<seb128> GunnarHj, I don't think it's an important issue or hit lot of users, you could try to add some ui to e.g update-manager but then you might hit the reverse problem and annoy users who uninstalled language support for e.g firefox because they prefer english
<Sweet5hark1> seb128, willcooke: hangout now?
<seb128> Sweet5hark1, willcooke sent an invitation for 5pm utc our time, but now would work as well
<willcooke> seb128, Sweet5hark1 -  if you don't mind me eating in the background , let's do it now :)
<mitya57> Trevinho: that was super fast, thanks a lot!
<Sweet5hark1> willcooke: fine with me ;)
<seb128> willcooke, wfm
<Sweet5hark1> willcooke: do you invite?
<willcooke> Sweet5hark1, seb128 https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/canonical.com/talk-about-the?authuser=0
<Laney> about-the what!
<Laney> the suspense
<Sweet5hark1> willcooke: gah, cant join, was hanging until "this party is over" ...
<Sweet5hark1> willcooke, seb128: https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/gvhnpsedywp4ab2ult6q6jgq2ua?authuser=0
 * Sweet5hark1 feels a bit guilty now ...
 * Sweet5hark1 has 8 builders churning away on LibreOffice ... and sees '4 pending builds' in the LibreOffice ppa for backports ...
<willcooke> :)
<Sweet5hark1> doing my part for global warming.
<willcooke> Sweet5hark1, if you want something of less power set up on Canonistack let me know.
<willcooke> not a very appealing offer I know
<didrocks> that's why was 21Â°C instead of 5 last year yesterday
<Sweet5hark1> willcooke: I dont mind the build times too much, Im used to them. As long as I dont get lynched by an angry mob of 'greedy Bjoern is eating all the cycles on the ppa builders!!1!', Im fine ..
<willcooke> Sweet5hark1, if you start running in to people with pitchforks let me know
 * ogra_ checks lats winters heating bill and hugs Sweet5hark1 for contributing to global warming
<Sweet5hark1> willcooke: willdo.
<Laney> the ppa farm has enough capacity
<Sweet5hark1> Laney: is that a challenge?
<Laney> do your worst!
<Laney> also, nautilus 3.14.1 is uploaded to the desktop ppa, try it out
<seb128> Laney, does it require the new gtk? do you expect any issue with it/any known bug that you want to see resolved before archive upload?
<Laney> yes and not that I know of atm
<seb128> k
<seb128> larsu, how is the gtk update going? it might be good to update the pad with some references to vcs/merge requests as you go maybe, so we can keep track of progresses
<larsu> seb128: a bit lost in the details...
<seb128> larsu, we start having a stack of updates blocked, I wonder if we should upload the new gtk dispite the issues
<seb128> and deal with theming then
<GunnarHj> seb128: I understand what you are saying. I might investigate a little more. Anyway, thanks for your thoughts!
<seb128> GunnarHj, yw!
<larsu> seb128: hm, I understand. Let me reshuffle a bit and apply the patches I have before eod
<larsu> seb128: that way the biggest problems will be gone and I might stop shaving yaks
<seb128> larsu, well, we are not in hurry either, how much work do you think your yaks shaving is going to take?
<seb128> larsu, I would like the gtk to be ready by the end of the week if we can
<seb128> larsu, so maybe just shuffle things around as you see fit for that goal?
<seb128> or let me know if it's a bit too early and you think we need a bit more work before the upload
<seb128> it's just that once we enter decembre end of year holidays are getting close and some people are on and off
 * Laney is off next week
<seb128> so it might be nice to have the GTK before that, so things can settle down and if e.g the Ubuntu GNOME wants to do work during holidays they can
<Laney> but I'm pushing / PPAing stuff
<seb128> see :p
<seb128> Laney, until eoy or just next week?
<Laney> just the week
<seb128> k
<Laney> then back for two i think before xmas
<larsu> seb128: I definitely wanted to finish the theme work this week. Let me see what I have today at eod
<seb128> larsu, k
<larsu> Laney: for settling into the new place?
<seb128> larsu, I guess the icons issue is likely a gtk one and not a theme one?
<seb128> larsu, it's funny to try to open the "open with" menu from nautilus or a text file if you have gvim installed :p
<larsu> yes, haven't looked into that one yet
<seb128> I tried that this w.e and went "wth" ;-)
<larsu> ya, same in the dash
<seb128> should we maybe ask desrt or robert_ancell if they can help on that?
<Laney> larsu: yep
<seb128> so you can focus on the theme?
<larsu> it's fine unless you consider it super urgent
<Laney> & buying all of the other things
<seb128> nothing super urgent
<seb128> larsu, thanks for the update, don't worry/stress about the update, let's just do a status update on thursday
<Laney> I saw something in NEWS maybe about icon themes and sizes or something
<seb128> see what we get by then
<Laney> https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=765069
<ubot5> Debian bug 765069 in nautilus "nautilus: Displays svg pixmaps as giant icons" [Normal,Open]
<Laney> errands + lunch, biab
<willcooke> Sweet5hark1, I bring great news....
<Sweet5hark1> willcooke: yes?
<willcooke> Sweet5hark1, your name is being fixed in the HR system
<Sweet5hark1> willcooke: ... and there was great rejoincing!
<Sweet5hark1> willcooke: I getting all excited about filing my expenses next time! Usually that doesnt happen. ;)
<willcooke> :D
 * willcooke is burning down the "TO DO" post-it-notes at long lsat
<Laney> hmm
<Laney> NM doesn't have an option to automatically connect to a VPN?
<larsu> Laney: pretty sure I did that at some point...
<larsu> but can't find it either now :/
<larsu> Laney: NMActiveConnection has a 'default' property (and NMVPNConnection inherits from that) - so it should be doable
<larsu> maybe there's just no UI for it?
<Laney> perhaps
<Laney> can you put it in some config file?
<larsu> dunno
<davmor2> Laney: larsu: it does if you add network-manager-openvpn-gnome I think
<Laney> davmor2: Isn't that what lets me use a VPN at all?
<Laney> where's the option? ;)
<mitya57> The -gnome contains the GUI I think
<davmor2> Laney: there are 2 network-manager-openvpn which does the backend stuff and -gnome which gives the bells and whistles I think
<Laney> I have a UI, just doesn't have this option
<mitya57> That package should add some option to "Add connection" dialog in nm-connection-editor
<Laney> Plenty of options, but none that let me automatically connect to a VPN
<mitya57> Hm, right, for wlan networks I do have "Connect automatically" checkbox in the first tab, but for VPN I don't...
 * Laney goes away
<Laney> laters!
<willcooke> l8r
 * willcooke goes away too - back to speak to robert_ancell later on
<robert_ancell> willcooke, damn, dst confuses me again. Upside, ready when you are!
<willcooke> robert_ancell, hey :)  You're up early?
<robert_ancell> willcooke, I keep forgetting the meeting time has moved
<robert_ancell> and children = up early anyway
<willcooke> :)
<willcooke> can you give me 10 mins?
<robert_ancell> sure
<GunnarHj> Hi robert_ancell!
<robert_ancell> GunnarHj, otp
<GunnarHj> robert_ancell: ok
<GunnarHj> robert_ancell: Posting my question in the meantime:
<GunnarHj> https://code.launchpad.net/~gunnarhj/lightdm/config-error-dialog/+merge/242232
<GunnarHj> Are you waiting for pittis review?
<robert_ancell> GunnarHj, it's been sitting in my queue but I'll have a look now
<robert_ancell> GunnarHj, but yes, I'm just deferring to pitti on this
 * willcooke -> EOD. ttfn
<GunnarHj> robert_ancell: Ok. Think he is on vacation ATM. He blessed the sh -> bash idea.
<robert_ancell> Oh, I thought people were generally pro just sh. Or is that Debians policy
<GunnarHj> robert_ancell: Don't know. To be honest I was a little surprised too. But both pitti and seb128 have stated that it's ok, and that the affect on performance is minimal.
<robert_ancell> GunnarHj, reviewed
<kenvandine> popey, what are your thoughts about btrfs these days?
<kenvandine> i'm thinking about wiping my laptop for a clean install... debating btrfs or my trusty favorite ext4
<mzanetti> hey, in vivd my screen backlight buttons aren't working. anyone got a hint where to look at?
<popey> kenvandine: i went back on my laptop from btrfs to ext4
<popey> kenvandine: btrfs felt too slow.
<popey> kenvandine: i also had on more than one occasion where my laptop would hang (for other unrelated reasons) or shutdown ungracefully and when I boot back up I'd have data loss in chrome/chromium
<popey> like my entire profile vanished, or lock files or something odd was messed up
<kenvandine> ugh
<kenvandine> that's not cool
<kenvandine> thx for the feedback
<lifeless> kenvandine: ext4 definitely
<lifeless> kenvandine: btrfs is very clever but its still way too raw IME
<kenvandine> lifeless, that's what i was worried about
<kenvandine> ok, thanks guys
<popey> yeah
<popey> however, that said
<popey> my home server which has 12x2TB disks as one bit btrfs array has had unspeakable things done to it
<popey> and survived
<popey> I have yanked the sata cables out and pulled the power multiple times.
<popey> btrfs has recovered fine
<popey> contrary to what most people say about it â»
<kenvandine> popey, is that why your click mirror went down? because of btrfs :)
<popey> yes
<popey> had to buy new esata cables which dont fall out when people slam the fridge door
<kenvandine> btw, is that back up?
<popey> (the server and array are on top of the fridge)
<kenvandine> haha
<popey> yes
<popey> also...
<popey> http://popey.mooo.com/mirror/clicks/graph.png
<kenvandine> crazy data center you have there
<popey> i made a graph with gnuplot
<kenvandine> nice to see the steady climb there :)
<popey> yeah
<popey> the blip down a couple of days ago I think was the removal of all the fake paid apps
<kenvandine> ah
<kenvandine> and the spike in june, contest?
<popey> dunno
<popey> i need to put some lines on it
<popey> for milestones so we can make educated guesses why
<popey> probably a better tool than gnuplot i could use, like some js graphing library
<popey> when i can be bothered
<robert_ancell> attente_, how goes the GTK+ work?
<GunnarHj> robert_ancell: I think you hit a new record this time. ;) Are you about to stop the pending SRUs?
<robert_ancell> GunnarHj, I don't think we need to stop the SRUs do we? It will just come in the following one
<GunnarHj> robert_ancell: No, I don't think so either.
#ubuntu-desktop 2014-11-25
<pitti> Good morning
<larsu> pitti: guten morgen!
<pitti> hey larsu, wie gehts?
<larsu> pitti: gut danke! War gestern bei einem pub quiz. Und dir?
<pitti> larsu: auch gut, danke! wir hatten ein schoenes 4-Tage Wochenende in Trier
<didrocks> morning
<seb128> lut didrocks
<didrocks> salut seb128
<pitti> bonjour didrocks et seb128
<seb128> hey pitti, wie gehts?
<pitti> seb128: gut, danke! wir hatten ein schoenes 4-Tage-Wochenende in Trier mit Freunden
<didrocks> oh, pitti is back!
<didrocks> pitti: how were your days off?
<didrocks> nice! :)
 * didrocks 's german is good enough to understand that without google translate :)
<seb128> pitti, oh ok, that's why you were not online on friday ;-)
<pitti> seb128: yeah, had Fri and Mon off
<seb128> great
<seb128> had fun there?
<pitti> seb128: yes, it was a great surprise for Michael; we all hid in their room when they arrived :)
<seb128> :-)
<pitti> we did some nice hiking, looking at some ancient Roman things, and it was nice to see each other again
<didrocks> good weather?
<pitti> seb128: et nous avons vu un film -- les filles de Monsieur Claude
<pitti> c'Ã©tait drÃ´le !
<pitti> didrocks: oui
<seb128> pitti, c'Ã©tait en franÃ§ais ?
<pitti> seb128: non, le traduction allemand, mais c'est un film franÃ§ais
<seb128> ok
<didrocks> seb128: "Qu'est-ce que qu'on a fait au Bon Dieu" est le titre franÃ§ais on dirait
<pitti> ah, I just translated the German title literally
<seb128> oh ok
<seb128> I know that movie
<didrocks> pitti: yeah, they changed it under that name for non french translations apparently
<seb128> it had good reviews in France
<pitti> didrocks: as-tu le vu ?
<didrocks> non, je ne l'ai pas vu
<didrocks> juste cherchÃ©, car le titre ne me disait rien :)
<pitti> didrocks: wow, you've been busy :)
<didrocks> pitti: isn't it? :) I'm waiting on Lennart to review my patch though, (was fun to play with mount namespace)
<didrocks> pitti: on the *dm things and alternatives, I want to catch up with you once you are done with your backlog
<didrocks> pitti: and a proposal on how to handle debian alternatives with systemd (a more generic one, avoid the postinst snippets)
<didrocks> avoiding*
<didrocks> pitti: https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=770404#71 (as you are not in CC)
<ubot5> Debian bug 770404 in lxdm "systemd: breaks lightdm, does not start anymore" [Critical,Fixed]
<jibel> pitti, is there any info I can add or anything I can do to help debugging bug 1394063?
<ubot5> bug 1394063 in unity-settings-daemon (Ubuntu) "[vivid regression] brightness keys aren't recognized" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1394063
<pitti> jibel: I think it happens on any hardware which sends out key events for those
<pitti> so someone needs to merge u-settings-daemon with gnome-settings-daemon wrt. brightness handling (it probably changed with upower 0.99)
<willcooke> morning all.  cold today
<didrocks> hey willcooke
<willcooke> hey didrocks
<willcooke> https://git.gnome.org/browse/gtk+/log/?h=wip/mir-gdkgl
<willcooke> Trevinho has been very busy :)  ^^^
<seb128> hey willcooke
<seb128> yeah, saw that with Trevinho
<seb128> I hope they don't work conflict/duplicate efforts with people in our team
<willcooke> we need a plan to get that in to the desktop next image.
<willcooke> Shall we discuss that in the meeting later on?
<willcooke> which reminds me...
<Laney> yo
<didrocks> plait
<didrocks> Â©
<willcooke> https://plus.google.com/+DidierRoche/posts/jWJFV4e7C8a
<willcooke> I like Coder Toolbox from qengho
<willcooke> And ali123's "SDK Manager" is easy to understand
<didrocks> seems you are not alone, it's been +1 ;)
<didrocks> sdk manager is misleading IMHO though
<didrocks> you can expect it's ubuntu's sdk
<willcooke> fair point
<didrocks> maybe I'm biased because android's studio sdk manager is called "sdk manager" alone :)
<willcooke> ahhh
<seb128> hey Laney, how are you?
<didrocks> I guess I'll challenge my chance and try running now
<seb128> didrocks, morning exercice now
<didrocks> seb128: rain-free exercise rather :p
<seb128> didrocks, good luck
<didrocks> or rain-free-tentative exercise rather ;)
<didrocks> thanks!
<Laney> hey seb128, doing alright thanks, started packing last night ;-)
<Laney> you?
<Laney> I'm suspicious that I only had 2 LP emails this morning
<seb128> I'm good thanks
<seb128> packing, exciting ;-)
<Laney> going to need more boxes
<Laney> we have a billy from ikea
<seb128> you need to subscribe to more packages!
<Laney> 50% of the stuff from it = 4 boxes
<Sweet5hark> moin
<willcooke> hey Sweet5hark
<seb128> hey Sweet5hark
<Sweet5hark> seb128: heya
<seb128> Laney, testing your nautilus update, it vanished from the launcher on upgrade
<seb128> we need to deal with the .desktop rename one way or another
<larsu> seb128: settings migration can't handle this?
<larsu> (what was it renamed to?)
<seb128> larsu, what settings do you want to migrate?
<seb128> larsu, nautilus.desktop to org.gnome.Nautilus.desktop
<seb128> hate that transition, even if I know desrt likes it
<larsu> ya, it's necessary
<seb128> I don't think it's "necessary"
<seb128> it's just that people decided they wanted to do activation this way
<larsu> com.canonical.Unity.Launcher favorites
<seb128> well, that's one setting
<seb128> what about gnome-panel
<seb128> or xfce's launcher
<larsu> seb128: we can do activation without that. We want tons more apps and try to avoid them stepping on each other's names asap
<larsu> seb128: right, we'd need migration path for all of those...
<seb128> that sucks
<larsu> indeed
<seb128> we can't even know "all of them"
<seb128> I vote for renaming back the .desktop to nautilus.desktop in the package
<larsu> the other option is to put a map old_name -> new_name into GIO
<seb128> that wouldn't work
<seb128> e.g unity's launcher is not using gio to check if the .desktop exists
<seb128> or I don't think it is
<seb128> having an hardcoded list would also sucks
<larsu> they don't?
<seb128> not sure
<larsu> do they spider /usr/share/applications/ themselves?
<seb128> I wouldn't be surprised if they use some Qt api
<seb128> at least in unity8
<seb128> next you tell me we need to patch qt as well
<seb128> that's path to madness
<larsu> fair enough
<seb128> imho the only workable options are to undo the rename
<larsu> ugh
<larsu> this won't solve the problem forever
<seb128> why not?
<seb128> but I'm unsure to understand what problem that rename is supposed to solve
<larsu> we'll always need to carry the patch
<larsu> is what I meant
<seb128> yeah
<seb128> but we do care about compat and upgrades
<seb128> shame that upstream doesn't :/
<larsu> dbus also doesn't allow names without at least one '.' in it iirc
<larsu> so activation won't work
 * larsu checks
<larsu> >>> Gio.dbus_is_name('nautilus')
<larsu> False
<seb128> I wonder if we could workaround it with shipping the old .desktop with NoDisplay= or something
<seb128> though that might be not displayed since that's what the key means
<larsu> Actually=org.gnome.Nautilus
<larsu> but then we'll need to patch things agin
<larsu> *again
<seb128> yeah
<seb128> well, I just fail to see a way to not screw upgrades without carrying a patch
<seb128> I wish people would think about upgrades before designing/implementing new cool ideas :/
<larsu> how is gnome handling this?
<seb128> they don't
<seb128> which is my complain
<seb128> GNOME doesn't care about upgrades
<seb128> they let that problem to distros
<Laney> I don't see why they wouldn't if someone came up with an idea
<larsu> so people on fedora will lose nautilus in their dash?
<Laney> let's see what desrt has to say
<seb128> I guess
<seb128> Laney, we already discussed it on this channel when desrt was around
<seb128> we didn't find a good option iirc
<seb128> or did you suggest the copy with NoDisplay by then?
<Laney> don't remember
<seb128> though i'm unsure if NoDisplay might not confuse things
<Laney> try it
<seb128> well, I don't know what to try
<seb128> I can't try every piece of code dealing with .desktop we have
<seb128> I don't even know what those are
<seb128> users could be using gnome-panel, xfce-panel, kde, $whateverotherlauncher
<seb128> cairo dock
<seb128> not to mention mimetype handlers
<seb128> we currently have nautilus.desktop as being the default handlers for directories
<Laney> I think the NoDisplay would be on the dbus activatable one if we did it that way around
<seb128> I guess that would work
<Laney> I don't know, I'm not clued up on this stuff
<seb128> well, let's undo the renaming in the packaging then
<seb128> at least until we figure out how to properly deal with it
<larsu> I agree
<Laney> ...
<larsu> we should deal with it, though
<Laney> let's wait for desrt to see if that would work?
<Laney> it's not like we can update it today anyway
<seb128> right
<seb128> on that note, lunch, bbiab
<larsu> enjoy!
<larsu> Laney: oh, we haven't updated yet? Let's wait, then
<Laney> nah, it's just in the ppa
<Laney> needs new gtk :-)
<larsu> ah right
 * larsu hurries
<Sweet5hark> hmmm, I might be riding a dead horse here ....
<Sweet5hark> my kernel just decided it would be better for all of us, if my machine emergency reboots ...
<Sweet5hark> thermal thermal_zone0: critical temperature reached(128 C),shutting down <- do you want fries with that?
<larsu> Laney: not only is nautilus gone from the launcher, it also doesn't start for me
<Laney> ?
<Laney> nautilus -q;  nautilus ?
<larsu> actually, it is running nad providing the desktop, but doesn't show any windows
<Laney> nautilus -w?
<larsu> that works, but I need to do tht even after a reboot
<mitya57> xnox: you are TIL for gnome-keyring, mind if I upload a merge? https://launchpad.net/~mitya57/+archive/ubuntu/gnome-test/+sourcepub/4586839/+listing-archive-extra
<Laney> larsu: "  * d/p/01_fix-new-window-manage-desktop.patch: Fix opening of new browser
<Laney>     windows when nautilus is managing the desktop, cherry-picked from
<Laney> sounds promising ;-)
<Laney>     upstream, should really Closes: #766021"
<Laney> that's https://git.gnome.org/browse/nautilus/commit/?id=ae4d4960d1c3e6316de0d1fd01fd34c88f65d673
<larsu> Laney: sounds good. thnks for tracking it down
 * Laney tries
<Laney> I did notice behaviour like that but somehow convinced myself it was fixed
<Laney> weird
<Laney> git pull --rebase â¥
<Laney> yep, this fixes it
 * Laney updates ze PPA
<larsu> thanks!
<larsu> man, our theming is incredibly inconsistent
<larsu> for example, nautilus' toolbar buttons have a border and gedit's don't
<seb128> larsu, we don't really have app customization in the theme, specific rules are probably copies from the upstream ones because that was better than nothing
<larsu> seb128: much of this is our theme trying to be very smart, not the apps
<seb128> k
<larsu> I can kind of see the old-style vs new-style argument for toolbars, but it _is_ very inconsistent
<seb128> I don't even notice them being different
<seb128> as an user I mean
<seb128> what differences are we speaking about?
<larsu> buttons in toolbars sometimes have a border (nautilus, evince) and sometimes don't (gedit, libreoffice)
<seb128> gedit has a border for me
<seb128> but that's gtk 3.14
<seb128> and you maybe don't call the shape around it "border" ;-)
<larsu> right, we consider this to be a bug :)
<larsu> seb128: the theme does ;)
<seb128> has that been reported?
<seb128> or is that so subtle that nobody ever noticed?
 * seb128 boots an utopic vm to look at how things are there
<larsu> you reported it
<seb128> hum
<seb128> I'm confused
<larsu> I noticed :)
<seb128> larsu, http://people.canonical.com/~seb128/border.png
<seb128> that doesn't have a border?
<larsu> it does...
<larsu> but shouldn't
<larsu> whereas nautilus' toolbar buttons have a border and should
<larsu> this is what I mean by inconsistent :)
<seb128> why should nautilus have a border?
<seb128> or you is that "should" according to our theme
<seb128> and not "should to be right"
<larsu> "should" according to our theme - and I agree, it looks stupid without
<seb128> k, I think I understand now ;-)
<seb128> sorry for being slow
<larsu> haha, you're not slow ;)
<Sweet5hark> seb128: I think I will have a 4.3.4 utopic and a 4.2.7+ trusty sru for you this week ...
<seb128> Sweet5hark, great
<Sweet5hark> (... and a 4.4.0~beta1/vivid for the ppa)
<didrocks> pitti: someone mentionned udev for the new UDTC names, it's tempting ;)
<didrocks> http://blog.didrocks.fr/post/Ubuntu-Developers-Tools-needs-you-for-its-new-name%21#comment-1711690429
<willcooke> :D
<willcooke> How about "System for automatically pulling in the latest environments and libraries which are of specific interest to developers"
<willcooke> os just "systemd"
<willcooke> for short
<didrocks> ahah
<Sweet5hark> willcooke: oh, its Friday!
<willcooke> :D
<mlankhorst> ok easy part done :/
<willcooke> mlankhorst, ?  Does it work?
<mlankhorst> yeah but missing support for timestamps, frame counters, and scheduling at a specific frame because mir doesn't support it.
<willcooke> nice work that man :)
<willcooke> mlankhorst, are we tracking the features we need but don't have somewhere?
<mlankhorst> not right now, but I guess I should open some bugs
<willcooke> yes please!
<willcooke> We agreed with kgunn that we would open bugs for feature requests and then they can manage them from LP
<mlankhorst> ok
<willcooke> we toyed with the idea of a spreadsheet or similar, but that was thrown out as a bad idea :)
<willcooke> guess who came up with that idea ;)
 * willcooke loves spreadsheets
<willcooke> but yeah, LP is the best place for them
<willcooke> mlankhorst, when you're creating them please subscribe me to them as well so I can keep track
<willcooke> (or just send me a link and I can sort it out from there)
<mlankhorst> sure
<willcooke> thanks!
<willcooke> chrisccoulson, hi!  How's that build server holding up?  All ok?
<chrisccoulson> willcooke, I can log in to it. I've not had a chance to set it up yet, but will hopefully get round to that tomorrow
<chrisccoulson> thanks :)
<willcooke> coolio, let me know if you need anything
<mlankhorst> ok, xmir -rootless glxgears appears to work as intended (no copy done), xmir glxgears fullscreens too, xmir glxgears in a small window too. but vblank only works with -rootless for now. :P
<willcooke> nice mlankhorst  :)
<willcooke> bregma, ^^
<mlankhorst> not really in any type of efficient fashion though
<bregma> mlankhorst, is the a PPA where my guys can grab binaries to test?
<mlankhorst> bregma: I'm still ironing out the bugs :P
<desrt> mmmm.  serial for breakfast
<bregma> mlankhorst, we are not unused to bugs
<mlankhorst> currently lacking is support for syncing window movement with mir, placing windows at an arbitrary position (useful for menus), resizing..
<mlankhorst> no support for cursor, it's hidden and default mir cursor is used
<mlankhorst> I don't think I can boot up a desktop on xmir at this point :P
<willcooke> oh, it's meeting time already
<willcooke> #startmeeting Desktop Team Weekly Meeting 2014-11-25
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Nov 25 15:30:58 2014 UTC.  The chair is willcooke. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Welcome to the Desktop Team | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For support please join #ubuntu | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting 2014-11-25 | Current topic:
<didrocks> hey
<willcooke> Roll call: attente_, desrt, didrocks, fjkong (out), happyaron(out), laney, larsu, mlankhorst, qengho, seb128, sweet5hark, themuso (out), tkamppeter, robert_ancell (out)
<desrt> word up
<mlankhorst> bregma: yeah, seems I'm lacking TextureFromPixmap support :P
<willcooke> #topic attente_
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Welcome to the Desktop Team | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For support please join #ubuntu | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting 2014-11-25 | Current topic: attente_
<willcooke> Hey attente_ - how goes?
<attente_> hi
<attente_> not much from me, trying to figure out why new windows are not appearing with the gtk mir backend under u8
<willcooke> attente_, did you see the commits to Gtk Mir backend from Trevinho?
<willcooke> https://git.gnome.org/browse/gtk+/log/?h=wip/mir-gdkgl
<attente_> willcooke: no i hadn't
<attente_> i'll try it out though
<seb128> quite some of those landed in trunk as well
<willcooke> no worries, could you sink up with him and make sure we're not duplicating efforts
<willcooke> would love to see the relevant pieces in Desktop Next image when they are ready
<mlankhorst> sink up!
<seb128> https://git.gnome.org/browse/gtk+/log/?qt=author&q=marco
<willcooke> *sync :)
<seb128> we should probably land the new GTK first
<willcooke> ack
<seb128> then backport the mir backend from trunk
<desrt> it's a trivial backport
<desrt> there's only one minor conflict due to adding libepoxy
<seb128> yeah, independant files
<seb128> should be just copy over and some makefile hacking
<desrt> the trouble is in configure.ac
<seb128> k
<desrt> but it will take about 2 minutes to figure it out...
<seb128> should have written autotools
<seb128> rather than makefile :p
<willcooke> :)
<desrt> nah... there are makefile changes too
<desrt> but they're not problematic :p
<seb128> ;-)
<seb128> enough said on the topic I think :-)
<willcooke> :)
<willcooke> ok, so attente_ some stuff for you to check out there, and please ping Trevinho as necessary
<willcooke> let me know if I can do anything to help
<willcooke> #topic desrt
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Welcome to the Desktop Team | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For support please join #ubuntu | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting 2014-11-25 | Current topic: desrt
<desrt> hi hi
<willcooke> what goes?
<desrt> i added a patch to gsettings to improve efficiency in cases where people are not watching for changes
<desrt> but this made some people unhappy (because in order to work, you need to watch for changes and then read a setting)
<desrt> so then i reopened an ancient bug about being able to find out (as an object) when people connect signal handlers to you, in gsignal
<desrt> i wrote a patch for that, awaiting review
<desrt> i also did some misc hacking on bluetooth over the weekend mostly to scratch some personal itches on improving the bluetooth tether experience in NetworkManager
<desrt> finally, i had a meeting last week with a couple of samsung engineers and amigadave talking about kdbus and what we will do
<seb128> what was the outcome of that meeting?
<desrt> for me, the task is working on the gvariant serialisation code to make it compatible with both (a) serialising to vectors in the style kdbus wants and (b) deserialising messages containing memfds
<desrt> for dave the ask is adding zero-copy api to GBytes
<desrt> for samsung guys the task is getting their patches to actually send a message...
<desrt> we're planning to have regular meetings now every wednesday
<desrt> we also now have #kdbus irc for us to sync up with the guys doing the kernel work
<desrt> and we've already gotten a few feature requests handled in the past couple of days this way
<desrt> and a bugfix...
<desrt> (fin)
<willcooke> great!
<willcooke> say hi to Dave from me
<desrt> willcooke: done :)
<willcooke> :)
<larsu> lol
<willcooke> seb128, any more questions on the kdbus stuff before we move on?
<seb128> no
<willcooke> #topic didrocks
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Welcome to the Desktop Team | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For support please join #ubuntu | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting 2014-11-25 | Current topic: didrocks
<didrocks> hey
<desrt> willcooke: "hi back"
<desrt> ;)
<didrocks> Ubuntu developer desktop:
<didrocks> * Multiple reviews on intellij and pycharm support on udtc
<didrocks> * Discussed and draw a plan with upstream jayatana guy (having java appmenu support). Waiting on him to merge his sources now
<didrocks> * We are not going to patch fonts this cycles after discussion with the upstream guy (I can follow up on details if needed)
<didrocks> * Will and I launched the contest for a new name! (http://blog.didrocks.fr/post/Ubuntu-Developers-Tools-needs-you-for-its-new-name%21), we welcome any proposals!
<didrocks> Systemd:
<didrocks> * Proposed and now waiting for upstream review my patch to fix the missing machine-id bug
<didrocks> * Continued (long) discussions and tests on DM and systemd unit alternatives handlingâ¦ We will probably pilot some solutions on ubuntu compared to debian
<didrocks> * Continued (even longer) discussions on /usr and /etc separation
<didrocks> Misc:
<didrocks> * catchup with the DMB on behalf of the desktop team
<didrocks> * Bluez 5 validation is waiting on TheMuso to upload pulseaudio 6 (git snapshot) to the bluez ppa.
<didrocks> EOF
<Laney> s/DMB/CC/
<willcooke> thanks didrocks, and thanks again for standing in for me at the CC meeting (and Laney)
<didrocks> Laney: oh right ;)
<didrocks> yw
<willcooke> #topic FJKong
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Welcome to the Desktop Team | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For support please join #ubuntu | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting 2014-11-25 | Current topic: FJKong
<willcooke> * Completed Pulseaudio package merging, and built test debs for armhf just in time to...
<willcooke> * Started updating Ubuntu/Debian packaging for Pulse 6, currently 5.99.1. Am aware of the desktop team bluez5 PPA and will upload it there for testing with bluez 5 once ready for testing.
<willcooke> * Discussion with Debian and upstream about fixed point vs floating point performance on armhf, nobody has done any benchmarking atm. Debian uses fixed point on all arm architectures, we use floating point on all arches we support.
<willcooke> #topic happyaron
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Welcome to the Desktop Team | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For support please join #ubuntu | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting 2014-11-25 | Current topic: happyaron
<willcooke> Please email me your report happyaron
<Laney> was that TheMuso?
<seb128> willcooke, was that FJKong section the one from Themuso?
<willcooke> argh
<willcooke> copy & paste error
<willcooke> one sec
<seb128> hehe
<Laney> spoilers
<willcooke> * pinyin searching : I have write some code and shell scripts to get a maping table for converting Chinese character.
<willcooke> when supply a Chinese character it will return all available pronunciation, next step some more work need to be done
<willcooke> * Tracking a sogoupin bug: statusbar can be drag out of screen.
<willcooke> * meeting with NUDT:
<willcooke> 1 Discussing file manager feature
<willcooke> 2 Nudt give more suggestion about pinyin searching
<willcooke> #topic Laney
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Welcome to the Desktop Team | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For support please join #ubuntu | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting 2014-11-25 | Current topic: Laney
<Laney> â¢ Patch pilot
<Laney> â¢ Nautilus 3.14, some headerbar patches required for dialogs etc (fwded), in PPA
<Laney> â¢ Evolution 3.12.8
<Laney> â¢ Found a crash bug in v4l which broke cheese, worked with upstream for a fix
<Laney> â¢ Fixed upgrade failure in gnome-flashback
<Laney> â¢ Uploaded new point releases of webkigtk/{vivid,utopic,trusty}
<Laney> â Helped out with some test uploads to diagnose a webkit/ppc64el bug in vivid
<Laney> â¢ SRU libgdata point release to fix a Google contact sync failure
<Laney> â¢ Made ureadahead's triggers interest-noawait to fix upgrade failure
<Laney> â¢ Updating glib2.0 glib-networking ATM (working on test failures)
<Laney> â¢ Went to the CC meeting to talk about desktop team and DMB (two birds with one stone)
<Laney> â¢ On holiday next week
<Laney> â
<willcooke> thanks Laney
<willcooke> good luck with the move
<seb128> Laney, webkit, I noticed early that there was an update waiting for SRU verification for a while
<seb128> should we try to verify it?
<seb128> or should we rather get the new update in and verify that?
<Laney> yeah we should verify it if nobody else does
<seb128> so verify twice
<seb128> rather than nagging to get the new update in and do one verification only on that one?
<Laney> hang on wtf, that bit was false
<seb128> the one is the SRU pocket is 17 days old
<seb128> so I assumed you had yet another one you uploaded since
<Laney> forget the bit where I said I updated the stable releases, that is just lies
<seb128> didn't check ;-)
<Laney> it was a patch to vivid only
<seb128> k
<Laney> but ya, should verify that
<seb128> in that case I'm going to verify the one currently in the queue
<seb128> thanks!
 * Laney is distro-syncing a rawhide vm currently
<Laney> \o/
<willcooke> #topic larsu
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Welcome to the Desktop Team | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For support please join #ubuntu | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting 2014-11-25 | Current topic: larsu
<larsu> hey. Not much news here. Continued working on the gtk update
<larsu> got a bit overzealous with trying to clean up the theme
<larsu> turned out I broke all kind of corner cases
<larsu> and am now taking a more modest approach
<willcooke> :)
<larsu> also some of the usual stuff: code reviews etc
<willcooke> fin?
<larsu> oui
<willcooke> #topic mlankhorst
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Welcome to the Desktop Team | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For support please join #ubuntu | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting 2014-11-25 | Current topic: mlankhorst
<mlankhorst> I've been working on rootless Xmir, glamor 2d acceleration works at this point, dri2/opengl is a WIP. Rootless flipping works, normal flipping does not, texture_from_pixmap does not work yet it seems, I'm investigating why... so no compiz yet. :P
<mlankhorst> that's about all from me
<willcooke> good stuff,. thanks mlankhorst
<mlankhorst> np
<willcooke> keep me abreast of those bugs for kgunn  and team once they're opened
<mlankhorst> I want to get compiz running first, after that they start to become important :)
<willcooke> ack
<willcooke> #topic qengho
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Welcome to the Desktop Team | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For support please join #ubuntu | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting 2014-11-25 | Current topic: qengho
<qengho> Hey hey!
<qengho> * done: chromium release, v39. Security fixes, and a search-credit fix. GPU blacklist experiment was a failure.
<qengho> * to-do: compiler still not available for precise.
<qengho> * in-progress: more Cr-on-mir hacking.
<qengho> * enormous storm here in Florida today. may need scuba gear to go to kitchen.
<qengho> EOF
<willcooke> thx qengho
<kgunn> mlankhorst: cool!
<kgunn> mlankhorst: what do you mean by "normal flipping" ?
<kgunn> at the Fb ?
<kgunn> RAOF: ^
<seb128> qengho, chromium triggers an apport prompt due to some i965 .so on start, is that a known issue?
<willcooke> kgunn, mind holding on 5 mins for end of the meeting?  Sorry, shouldnt have pinged you :)
<seb128> qengho, I've that for some time, I assumed it would get resolved by some update but that doesn't seem to happen so I'm asking ;)-
<seb128> ;-)
 * kgunn feels ashamed :)
<willcooke> totally my fault kgunn
<qengho> seb128: yes. the intel GPU driver tries to do more than the chromium sandbox allows. I think you'll see the fix in kernel update.
<seb128> qengho, ok, do you know if there is a bug report about that?
<qengho> kernel, thoutgh? sandbox is userspace.
<qengho> seb128: I'll get you an answer about what should fix the problem.
<seb128> thanks
<seb128> it makes chromium pretty unusable
<willcooke> qengho, thanks for sorting out those GOOG issues last week.  Much appreciated.
<qengho> :)
<seb128> well, it hangs on start due to apport, then you can't use websites like gmaps
<seb128> willcooke, you can continue on the topics btw
<willcooke> ah, kk
<willcooke> in which case
<willcooke> #topic seb128
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Welcome to the Desktop Team | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For support please join #ubuntu | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting 2014-11-25 | Current topic: seb128
<seb128> :-)
<seb128> (4 days week, vac on thurday)
<seb128> â¢ spent a full day doing sponsoring/patch pilot (I didn't do some of the previous rounds so it was overdue)
<seb128> â¢ some desktop updates and merges for vivid
<seb128> â¢ looked at translations issue on ubuntu touch and vivid
<seb128> â¢ some playing around with systemd in preparation for the Ubuntu switch (switched my vivid to it, tested for regression, gave some feedback, looked a bit at the standard jobs)
<seb128> â¢ debugged an ubuntu-ui-toolkit regression that impacted settings, tested and potential fix and confirmed that it works
<seb128> â¢ ubuntu-system-settings for touch
<seb128> â reviewed changes from others (mostly backport from trunk commits to rtm)
<seb128> â¢ usual share of bugs triaging and desktop discussions
<seb128> </week>
<willcooke> thanks seb128  :)
<seb128> yw!
<willcooke> #topic Sweet5hark
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Welcome to the Desktop Team | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For support please join #ubuntu | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting 2014-11-25 | Current topic: Sweet5hark
<willcooke> he ded
<willcooke> #topic TheMuso
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Welcome to the Desktop Team | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For support please join #ubuntu | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting 2014-11-25 | Current topic: TheMuso
<willcooke> * Completed Pulseaudio package merging, and built test debs for armhf just in time to...
<willcooke> * Started updating Ubuntu/Debian packaging for Pulse 6, currently 5.99.1. Am aware of the desktop team bluez5 PPA and will upload it there for testing with bluez 5 once ready for testing.
<willcooke> * Discussion with Debian and upstream about fixed point vs floating point performance on armhf, nobody has done any benchmarking atm. Debian uses fixed point on all arm architectures, we use floating point on all arches we support.
<willcooke> #topic tkamppeter
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Welcome to the Desktop Team | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For support please join #ubuntu | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting 2014-11-25 | Current topic: tkamppeter
<seb128> willcooke, if you go alphabetical, did you skip robert_ancell's update?
<willcooke> he wasnt in the user list of the channel, so he's at the end of my slightly alphabetical list :)
<seb128> oh ok ;-)
<willcooke> looks like tkamppeter is out anyway
<willcooke> so..
<willcooke> #topic robert_ancell
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Welcome to the Desktop Team | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For support please join #ubuntu | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting 2014-11-25 | Current topic: robert_ancell
<willcooke> Worked on:
<willcooke> - TPM key support. Got hardware, did handover, started work
<willcooke> - Released simple-scan 1.15.2
<willcooke> - Bug triage, fixing, merge reviews
<willcooke> Currently working on:
<willcooke> - TPM key support
<willcooke> #topic any other business
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Welcome to the Desktop Team | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For support please join #ubuntu | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting 2014-11-25 | Current topic: any other business
<willcooke> I'm on holiday on Thursday, so I've cancelled meetings etc
<willcooke> Please let me know if you want to reschedule, otherwise we can catch up next week
<willcooke> anyone got anything else before we end?
<seb128> desrt, larsu, Laney, we need to discuss handling of the GNOME .desktop renames (the one for e.g gedit.desktop to org.gnome.gedit.desktop)
<seb128> but that's fine as after meeting
<seb128> I don't think we need to hold everyone for that
<willcooke> oh, and it's Thanks Giving in the USandA on Thursday, so those guys are out
<willcooke> (maybe until next week?  Is Friday a holiday too?)
<desrt> willcooke: a lot of people take friday off for the 4-day long-weekend
<seb128> (if it's not I guess many are going to take a VAC anyway)
<willcooke> Have a turkey filled weekend y'all
<willcooke> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Welcome to the Desktop Team | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For support please join #ubuntu
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Nov 25 16:05:58 2014 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-desktop/2014/ubuntu-desktop.2014-11-25-15.30.moin.txt
<willcooke> thanks everyone
<willcooke> kgunn, we're done, sorry about that
<tkamppeter> willcooke, sorry here is my part
<tkamppeter> - system-config-printer: Fixed several bugs concerning driver download
<tkamppeter> - cups-filters: Apply Kyocera quirk workarounds in pdftops also to Utax.
<tkamppeter> - Bugs.
<willcooke> nw, thx tkamppeter
<cyphermox> seb128: didrocks: did either of you try the bluez5 package?
<seb128> cyphermox, no, I didn't see a call for testing, but I can if you think the ppa is ready for that
<seb128> don't we need pulse to be updated first?
<didrocks> cyphermox: couldn't yet, did you? I thought you wanted to try with pulseaudio?
<didrocks> (see also emails you were in CC)
<cyphermox> I did, but I saw diwic's email
<cyphermox> so I looked into it, and the upstart job fix is in the PPA
<cyphermox> so I don't know why it hangs, it doesn't do that here
<cyphermox> seb128: didrocks: it's ready to play with if you don't care too much about whether your bluetooth works
<cyphermox> given that there still isn't pulse, or an updated gnome-bluetooth, indicator, and whatnot
<seb128> cyphermox, what is expected to not work?
<cyphermox> sound, at the very least
<seb128> k, so it's pretty much not ready to be tested?
<seb128> I mean I don't see much point to test if most of the desktop integration is not going to work anyway
<cyphermox> well, I can't really put in more time than preparing the bluez package itself
<Sweet5hark> willcooke: sorry, was caught in traffic. Not much: sru for utopic, trusty for bug 1389858 and bug 1342175, tweaking 4.4.0~beta2 to build on vivid, various toolchain/pbuilder/tooling updates
<ubot5> bug 1389858 in libreoffice (Ubuntu) "Libreoffice calc 4.2.7-0ubuntu1 not updating references after sort" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1389858
<ubot5> bug 1342175 in libreoffice (Ubuntu) "[upstream] Poor performance with find & replace with empty value on large data set" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1342175
<cyphermox> then it's a matter of doing the releases for the gnome bits
<seb128> cyphermox, didrocks or I can probably handle the gnome/indicator components
<seb128> desrt, did you read the chan backlog about how to handle the GNOME .desktop renames? I know we already discussed that a bit some time ago, but it starts being an issue ... do you have a clever idea on how we should deal with those?
<desrt> seb128: i had a couple of ideas, indeed
<desrt> i don't seem to remember them now :(
<cyphermox> seb128: provided we had gnome-bluetooth updated, you could do a lot of testing via gnome-shell I'd think
<desrt> we forgot to discuss this in washington :(
<seb128> cyphermox, why not unity?
<seb128> desrt, yeah :/
<willcooke> thx Sweet5hark
<didrocks> seb128: you know the indicator code to update it to the new API?
<seb128> didrocks, EPARSE
<cyphermox> seb128: because for unity won't you need the indicator?
<seb128> the indicator code needs porting?
<cyphermox> probably
<seb128> well, I don't know how much the client apis changed
<seb128> and it much porting is needed
<seb128> I can have a look for sure
<cyphermox> I haven't had a look into the indicator enough to know
<seb128> didrocks, no, I don't know the codebase but I can have a try to it
<seb128> cyphermox, ^
<didrocks> seb128: ok, cyphermox told he wouldn't take a long to him to deal with it, but if you have some cycles for it, why not :)
<cyphermox> whomever looks into it, I don't expect it would take much time
<didrocks> I hope it's not using bluez dbus API too much, it heavily changed
<seb128> robert_ancell wrote that indicator otherwise
<seb128> I'm going to have a look, if it's easy I can do it, otherwise I can try to bounce it to rob ;-)
<larsu> seb128: when do you want to discuss?
<didrocks> ahah :)
<seb128> larsu, I tried "now" but desrt and Laney don't seem to be much around
<seb128> so maybe let's try another day
<larsu> ok
<larsu> desrt is busy in #gtk :)
<seb128> yeah, I see that
<seb128> he also said he forgot the ideas he had to deal with the issue
<desrt> well
<seb128> so maybe he needs some time to think about it before we discuss
<desrt> there are two approaches
<desrt> well, three, really
<desrt> one is that we have some central database
<desrt> one is that we add AlsoKnowAs= to desktop files
<desrt> one is that we define a new type of desktop file that is an alias for another
<desrt> but i remember having one thought in particular earlier: i think downstreams should deal with this
<desrt> gnome-shell handles it by hardcoding a list.  unity could do the same.
<desrt> and then the counter-thought was: mime associations
<desrt> but that could also be handled with a downstream list patched into gio
<larsu> why downstream?
<larsu> I think it makes sense for upstream to ship a desktop file with AlsoKnownAs
<larsu> the only problem there is that we don't seem to know what needs patching...
<larsu> seb128 said gio might not be enough
<seb128> desrt, what about kde/qt?
<desrt> seb128: *shrug*
<desrt> there is absolutely nothing we can do for them unless someone also writes a patch there
<desrt> oh.  the other thing:
<seb128> desrt, well, one thing we could do is to not rename .desktops...
<desrt> we _could_ install NoDisplay desktop files
<desrt> seb128: we can't not do that
<desrt> particularly since we're getting systemd after all
<desrt> dbus activation is a permanent part of our future
<desrt> also: having only one application identifier is a good thing
<seb128> shrug
<desrt> shrug if you want, but if you rename them back from what upstream did then the app simply won't start
<seb128> I don't think that we can claim not carring about upgrades and compatibility because "dbus activation is the futur"
<seb128> we can fix dbus activation to deal with old style names if really needed
<desrt> seb128: you're arguing against a strawman
<desrt> nobody is saying that we shouldn't care about back compat
<desrt> but pretending that the change didn't happen isn't going to work
<seb128> it happened to like 5 apps
<seb128> so no on scale of things it didn't happen and we could decide to change things
 * larsu is still in favor of hard coding those 5 apps somewhere
<seb128> it's not a made deal
<seb128> larsu, desrt is saying that every single of our apps shipping a .desktop is going to need to do that
<larsu> true...
<desrt> it's true -- we're going to have to deal with this one way or another
<seb128> I vote for "don't rename and fix dbus activation to deal with name without imposing those rules
<desrt> seb128: you're voting for a losing battle
<seb128> we can distro patch...
<desrt> also kde and qt?
<seb128> if upstream doesn't want to deal with it
<seb128> I guess?
<desrt> this is a fd.o spec change agreed to by kde and they'll be using it soon
<desrt> they're just a bit behind us on this one
<seb128> but it's mind boggling that everybody is fine with just screwing backward compat
<desrt> seb128: you're fighting a strawman again
<desrt> we have three good solutions for fixing the backcompat problem
<larsu> seb128: we're trying to consolidate the way we refer to applications (gsettings, dbus, and now desktop files)
<Laney> What's the issue with the NoDisplay?
<desrt> "ignore the issue and patch us back to 2012" is not one of them
<seb128> "patch every toolkit to have an coded list that needs to be updates every time an app change" is not either
<seb128> updated
<desrt> seb128: that was one suggestion
<seb128> right
<seb128> it's not a good one
<desrt> i offered three
<seb128> so we don't have 3 good ones
<desrt> good is a relative term
<seb128> it's not any better than "rename back those .desktop"
<desrt> i disagree
<desrt> but *shrug*
<seb128> let's agree to disagree then
<seb128> it's also really frustrating to just make it a downstream issue...
<desrt> i agree, if only for the mime associations
<desrt> which is what i stated when i summarised the situation
<seb128> do you know if there was any mention on the upgrade issue, during the xdg discussion?
<desrt> nobody has raised it yet
<desrt> before during or after
<seb128> k, I guess I'm going to do that then ;-)
<desrt> Laney: having two almost-identical copies of the desktop file installed is annoying
<seb128> I've also started bugging inviduals apps about the side effects of their rename on their users
<larsu> desrt: remember the gnome-calculator switch?
<desrt> also: if the NoDisplay version has the old style name then it cannot be used with dbus activation, which removes the entire point of that exercise
<Laney> I could deal with annoying for a while until we get AlsoKnownAs=
<desrt> AlsoKnownAs= is a non-starter without some help from eg. update-desktop-database
<desrt> which we could do
<desrt> in fact, these two things together are my preferred solution
<Laney> Well, yes, I believe there would be some engineering required
<desrt> just saying: gio is not about to spider the entire directory looking through AlsoKnownAs= lines on every open attempt
<desrt> but i also dismiss the [Alias] thing as an unnecessary burden for apps
<desrt> adding one line to your desktop file: we can convince pretty much everyone to do that
<desrt> installing a whole other file: lame
<desrt> the only remaining question is what exactly the update tool does: it could create a cache file or it could generate the alias files for us
<seb128> I still think it's wrong for apps to do that
<desrt> seb128: to do what?
<seb128> rename their desktop
<desrt> i'm sorry that you feel that way
<seb128> appdev needs to wake up, if they want to support their users they need to stop kicking them this way
<desrt> seb128: this is kinda _our job_
<seb128> the only reason it's ok is because gedit 3.16 can't be installed on RHEL
<seb128> or that packages come from distros
<seb128> if we had real ISVs they wouldn't let such things go
<desrt> seb128: as if anybody working on gedit works for redhat?
<seb128> s/RHEL/Debian if you prefer
<seb128> or s/RHEL/Ubuntu LTS
<desrt> so upstream loves rhel and debian but hates ubuntu?
<seb128> just pick any platform which is not going to get updated update-desktop-database and gio to handle your new key
<seb128> no
<desrt> seb128: apps have dependencies
<seb128> upstream don't think about their users
<seb128> the issue is there for RHEL and Debian as much as Ubuntu
<seb128> those changes is screwing all users on all distros
<seb128> which is my point
<seb128> if appdev had a clue about what they are doing they would oppose to those changes
<desrt> honestly, so far you're the first who complains
<seb128> they just don't realize the problems they create
<desrt> and we already have a plan to deal with it and it will be in place by vivid release
<seb128> sure, those rename didn't hit any user yet
<desrt> past that, i have trouble understanding why you're so upset
<seb128> the plan is a workaround for something that shouldn't have been broken to start with
<desrt> seb128: we had very good reasons for making that change
<seb128> you would have very good reason to do incompatible ABI changes to glib as well, it would make your job much easier
<seb128> but yet you don't do it because compat is important
<desrt> i'm going to go for a walk
<desrt> walks are nice
<seb128> enjoy :-)
<desrt> everyone should go for a walk....
<Laney> s/walk/climb/?
<seb128> s/climb/swim/?
<seb128> :-)
<seb128> desrt, walking is not going to make that problem go away though...
<Laney> Anyway, apart from not understanding what desrt means by [Alias], I don't mind working up a strawman for NoDisplay
<Laney> Could be done in packaging
<seb128> it's still wrong
<seb128> what if firefox does a similar rename
<seb128> what happens when we try to roll that new firefox on precise?
<Laney> We're there now, I think we should deal with it
<seb128> sure
<seb128> that question still stands
<Laney> Shame that it's considered at this late stage
<seb128> what's the strategie when we need to roll such updates on precise?
<Laney> but we can bring some value and improve the situation
<Laney> so ...
<seb128> I don't think it's too late to raise the issue that those changes are problematic
<seb128> and maybe an alternative solution should be considered
<seb128> so far it's like 5 GNOME apps that renamed
<seb128> it's not like it was a done deal for the ecosystem
<Laney> we have the outline of a proposal
<seb128> that proposal fails to deal with app updates on old systems though
<seb128> I still think the changes are fundamentally wrong for that reason
<Laney> I don't understand what you mean really, part of the proposal is adding back the old desktop file
<seb128> we need something genrating the alias though no?
<seb128> or is your suggesting to just add back the old .desktop with a NoDisplay and do no other change?
<Laney> I think the NoDisplay might be on the activatable desktop file, but yes
<seb128> Laney, that's not matching any of the 3 suggestions from desrt though?
<Laney> Heh
<desrt> nobody went for a walk/climb/swim
<desrt> so the concern is now what?  qt?
<Sweet5hark> seb128: I just wanted to ask you to upload the trusty SRU, but found two more new fixes upstream from 2 hours ago ...
<desrt> where's what's on my mind about why we don't want to have a bunch of extra .desktop files installed: adding and removing associations will become stupidly complicated
<desrt> imagine text/plain being associated with both gedit.desktop and org.gnome.gedit.desktop
<desrt> or if it's associated with gedit.desktop but then the user wants to unassociate it with org.gnome.gedit.desktop
<desrt> other than that, the solution is mostly viable, aside from the ugly of having two copies of the (almost) same file installed
<desrt> except that we cannot seriously ask upstream to do this
<desrt> that's where the tooling could help, though
<seb128> desrt, sorry, was on the phone
<seb128> desrt, well, my concern is not only qt, it's also that I fear that working around incompatible changes bite us back at some point, I wish whoever worked on that solution would have had upgrades and stability in mind, but I guess I'm late to argue on that one :/
<seb128> desrt, it just feels like those are things we (as a group) use to care more than we do nowadays and it somewhat makes me sad
<seb128> desrt, one of the concerns is that we need support in e.g gio, but then firefox is going to rename it, and we are going to security update the new version on trusty, and what happens there?
<desrt> SRUing new firefox releases is insane.  QED.
<desrt> i know we have to do it... but we can't honestly expect a smooth ride there all the time
<desrt> there is always going to be some tinkering
<seb128> rolling new apps versions on a stable OS is what other platforms do
<seb128> like you can install any $current app on winXP still
<desrt> and they all ship gigantic wads of library support with them
<desrt> we can static-link everything if that's what you prefer :)
<seb128> that wouldn't resolve that .desktop issue
<desrt> it would.... each app would have its own (new) copy of gio :)
<seb128> the winXP panel is not going to read your new gio to get the matching list
<seb128> so your favorites icons would still bug
<desrt> and in that direction, the app would ship the old copy of its desktop file in the built-for-xp case
<desrt> your comparison isn't fair
<seb128> I guess I would be fine if our apps would build the compat desktop
<seb128> if built with old glib
<desrt> if you think that apps install binary-exact-copies of themseves regardless of the windows version you're insane
<desrt> to expect us to do the same is an unfair comparison
<seb128> no
<seb128> but then our app should install the old .desktop name if glib < 2.43
<desrt> (and yet, i try to develop a system that lets us do that....)
<desrt> right... well now you hit on the absolute fundamental difference
<desrt> gedit doesn't care about running on old distro releases
<desrt> or almost anyone else
<desrt> they gain much more from using new gtk features
<seb128> I think app dev care, because that's where their majority users are
<desrt> which already de-facto blocks them from ever working on older releases anyway
<seb128> talk to firefox or pidgin or chrome or ...
<desrt> right.  absolutely.
<desrt> and they take extra steps
<desrt> just like they would have to for winxp
<desrt> but quite a lot of apps _don't_ care about that
<seb128> do they don't care
<seb128> or do they just not realize it's an issue?
<desrt> when they opt into using bleeding-edge gtk features, they're making a pretty explicit decision
<seb128> but they don't have datas on where they users are and what they want
<seb128> right
<seb128> I'm fine with those GNOME apps
<desrt> stuff like desktop files isn't even on the radar at that point
<seb128> I just wonder what happens when e.g pidgin is going to ask themselve that question
<desrt> they could ship a second desktop file, NoDisplay
<desrt> *shrug*
<seb128> right
<seb128> it just feels like that most apps are going to need to do that
<seb128> which makes me thing that maybe the system could have been designed better to not enforce a rename
<desrt> only the ones that care
<seb128> which would avoid all those isues
<seb128> it would be the best of both worlds
<desrt> we wanted to encourage renaming, though
<desrt> we discussed not requiring it
<seb128> well, the issue is that people message the advantage of renaming, but they don't mention the side effects
<seb128> so it's sort of misleading requests
<desrt> weighing the pain of the fact that an app doesn't even currently known the name of its own desktop file, problems with application matching in the shell, etc. that we've had for years
<desrt> against the one-time pain of a rename
<seb128> I've started filling a couple of bugs on apps, I'm curious to know what maintainers think
<desrt> please let me know the result of your research
<seb128> will do
<desrt> i agree that we should have had something in place to deal with the renames more smoothly
<desrt> but i still think renaming is desirable
<seb128> well, renaming is desirable
<seb128> I just wish it wouldn't be mandatory to be able to be dbus activated
<seb128> like please make all new stuff use the new scheme
<seb128> but it should have been possible for old apps to stay in some compat mode
<desrt> people would never have done it otherwise
<desrt> even for new apps
<desrt> people don't read documentation -- only cargocult
<desrt> the only way to get people (even new apps!) to change is to make something like this mandatory
<desrt> look at the fuckup with people installing gsettings keys in /apps/ and such
<desrt> this is the sort of idiocy that occurs when you let people do what they want
<desrt> and that was my fault
<desrt> first thing anybody making a new app is going to do is copy existing-app.desktop
<seb128> yeah, well it's the stick approach
<seb128> not sure I agree with it
<desrt> i consider dbus activation to be a rather nice carrot, actually
<seb128> especially that you apply the stick on the users
<desrt> nobody is forcing a rename
<desrt> but people want the carrot....
<seb128> you could have given them that without forcing a rename
<seb128> but yeah
<desrt> i just explained why i didn't do that
<seb128> right, and I'm not sure I agree
<desrt> so we're back at agreeing to disagree :)
<seb128> it's like we just break users because devs don't read
<desrt> it's a legitimate concern
<seb128> it feels like the wrong people pay the price
<desrt> and we don't have to break users...
<desrt> backcompat is often a dance in workarounds
<desrt> and we'll have one here
<seb128> I've yet to be convinced we can have a robust solution
<desrt> ya... there are going to be some issues no matter what we do
<desrt> but they're actually very minor
<seb128> sure your solution work in 90% of cases
<seb128> but they imply patching toolkits
<desrt> maybe.
<desrt> (ideally)
<seb128> and then you have cases like firefox to old releases
<seb128> which are going to bite us
<seb128> those 10% are going to have a cost
<desrt> i disagree with that
<desrt> SRUing firefox is always black magic
<desrt> if one of those bits of black magic is renaming a desktop file then so be it
<desrt> this is absolutely our job
<seb128> well, I'm sure it's going to be bite some users
<desrt> plus...
<desrt> if you think firefox is going to be using dbus activation inside 5 years you're dreaming :)
<seb128> would they only be people getting e.g the new shotwell from the yorba ppa
<seb128> or the new gedit from the gnome3 ppa to install on utopic
<desrt> that's not going to work for long unless that ppa also has new gtk
<desrt> and then it may as well have new glib too
<desrt> anyway... i think we both understand each other's position well enough
<seb128> well some apps, shotwell for example, try to not require versions > current_lts
<desrt> and i am probably not going to work on this this week
<seb128> because they care about being able to provide the current version to lts users
 * desrt wants to get out of the serialisation business first
<seb128> yeah, no worry, it's not a problem that we need to solve today or this cycle
<desrt> i'd like to solve it this cycle
<seb128> for what it's worth I would be happy to rename those desktop backs until we have a way to deal with those cases better
<seb128> or to let Laney try the NoDisplay .desktop copy thing
<desrt> for now that won't be a problem
<seb128> I'm still going to email xdg list about that
<seb128> I feel like people ovelrooked the upgrade issues
<seb128> it sucks to loose you preferred apps on upgrade
<desrt> propose a Aliases= or FormerlyKnownAs= or AlsoKnowAs= or whatever field
<desrt> this is the easiest almost-no-effort way for apps to provide us with the info that we need to do anything
<seb128> how would that work? every toolkit/codebase would need to be updated to look to the alias?
<desrt> any decent system that we decide on will work based on that plus something that either happens during dpkg build or at the time of update-desktop-database
<seb128> I don't know how many "independent parsers" we have out there
<desrt> we are absolutely not using that field directly at runtime
<seb128> k
<desrt> (screw compatibility concerns -- i'd reject it on performance concerns alone)
<seb128> so you would create dummy .desktop in the cache for those aliases?
<desrt> maybe.
<desrt> the other alternative is generating a aliases file that contains a mapping of old names to new ones
<desrt> which we'd have to modify toolkits to understand
<seb128> right
<seb128> then we face the "how many codebase don't use toolkits to deal with those files"
<desrt> i'm not sure which solution i like best yet
<seb128> like just do ini style parsing
<desrt> but having app authors add the field to their desktop file is definitely a part of whatever approach we end up taking
<desrt> seb128: that's an argument for the NoDisplay approach
<desrt> but seriously....
<desrt> if you're doing this yourself, i hate you
<willcooke> could we make it super easy for them, like providing a script to do it for them?
<desrt> there are 2 or 3 decent libraries for doing this stuff
<desrt> use one
<desrt> willcooke: to do what?
<willcooke> update the .desktop files
<desrt> from upstream we only expect that they add a single line to their desktop file with the old name
<desrt> nobody will have trouble with that
<willcooke> oh, ok
<desrt> the rest is magic on our side
<desrt> (one way or another)
<desrt> seb128: another reasonable solution would be to chew through the user's config and change all references to use the new names
<seb128> not possible
<desrt> why not?
<didrocks> (that's going to fun on the unity side, because IIRC, they inotify the .desktop file which will disappear on package unpack, and consequently, remove it from the launcher before we remove the tool)
<seb128> when would you do that?
<desrt> seb128: from the existing framework we have for this sort of on-login-or-on-updates changes
<seb128> also what if some configs are sqlite databases?
<desrt> the one that didrocks copied from upstream and improved
<seb128> you can't simply grep/sed
<didrocks> session-migration you mean?
<desrt> seb128: do you know of an example of that?
<desrt> didrocks: yes
<seb128> you would need custom handlers understanding programs
<desrt> seb128: yes.  that's precisely my point.
<seb128> desrt, no, but I don't claim to know how every launcher out there works
<desrt> seb128: we'd have a system one for the mimeapps
<desrt> seb128: unity would need one
<desrt> generally, any laucher-type app might want to provide one
<larsu> desrt: the sound and message indicators would need this as well
<larsu> they watch XDG_DATA_DIRS/applications
<desrt> but honestly, those sort of apps should have code to update themselves to the new names internally anyway
<larsu> at least messages does, not sure about sound tbh
<larsu> desrt: how? The way we've identified them now is by their .desktop
<larsu> I think teaching toolkits and apps about a mapping file will be easier to handle
<desrt> that's precisely what i'm suggesting
<desrt> the only change is when we do it -- immediately or at access
<desrt> and also how much we can share
<desrt> if we just update the mimeapps stuff on first login after (or at) new installation of renamed desktop files then we can avoid touching mime association code completely
<desrt> in either gio or qt
<desrt> big +1 from me there
<desrt> then all that's left is apps (mostly launcher, i think) that store desktop file names internally
<desrt> and those will have to be handled case-by-case, perhaps with help from the toolkit
<larsu> right
<larsu> totally like this approach
<desrt> i'm sure it has some problem we didn't think of yet
 * desrt goes back to serialising
 * desrt is very much trying not to context switch again
 * larsu goes to exercise
<GunnarHj> seb128: still there?
<seb128> GunnarHj, sort of but about to start dinner
<GunnarHj> seb128: Ok, this is short. I updated my gdm MP, but haven't been able to really test it. There is something strange when running gdm on my box (commented on the MP).
 * willcooke EOD
<seb128> GunnarHj, sorry, disconnect, you were asking something?
<GunnarHj> seb128: Well, I was mostly complaining about the fact that I'm not able to run gdm. Commented on it at:
<GunnarHj> https://code.launchpad.net/~gunnarhj/ubuntu/vivid/gdm/config-error-dialog/+merge/239729
<GunnarHj> seb128: Can it be that there is a missing dependency?
<seb128> GunnarHj, sorry, I don't know about that, would require debugging
<GunnarHj> seb128: Right. I might file a bug report later. (The problem is about gdm in general, and not specific to my proposed changes.)
<TheMuso> didrocks: I expect to have pulse 6 RC1 uploaded to the bluez5 PPA by EOD today.
<TheMuso> I parctically had it done yesterday, but I am getting some weird quilt/dpkg behavior which I am stumped about, so need to dig further.
#ubuntu-desktop 2014-11-26
<RAOF> Urgh. Why hasn't gnome-do 0.95.3-2 migrated to universe?
<TheMuso> RAOF: I assume when you say that, you are talking about the source package?
<RAOF> TheMuso: Nah; testing-proposed-migration.
<RAOF> TheMuso: http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/update_excuses.html#gnome-do seems to say âyeah, fineâ, but it's still in proposed.
<TheMuso> Ah ok.
<robert_ancell> xnox, still around?
<TheMuso> cyphermox: It appears that on armhf, your bluez 5 package has libdir specified twice in the configure call, even though its only mentioned once in the rules file... Must be ok on x86, but I'm trying to build on armhf here, both in a chroot and on real hardware, and I've hit this problem in both instances.
<TheMuso> cyphermox: I'll have a dig to see if I can work out whats going on.
<pitti> Good morning
<didrocks> good morning
<RAOF> pitti: Aha! You wouldn't happen to know why http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/update_excuses.html#gnome-do says âyeah, it's fine to migrateâ but gnome-do hasn't migrated in 7 days?
<didrocks> RAOF: seems there is a dependency challenge, with nunit, no?
<didrocks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/update_output.txt
<pitti> RAOF: Depends: gnome-do nunit
<pitti> RAOF: it just means that gnome-do itself is fine wrt. builds, tests, etc., but it waits on nunit
<pitti> RAOF: so your question should be about http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/update_excuses.html#nunit :)
<RAOF> :)
<pitti> right, then it's going to the "does that break any other packages" check in update_output.txt
<pitti> RAOF: yes, it's a horrible output format
<pitti> RAOF: so that means that at least one of those packages is uninstallable (gnome-do, gnome-do-plugins, libmonogame-cil, libmonogame-cil-dev, libtaoframework-ode-cil-dev, libtaoframework-ode0.9-cil, libtaoframework-sdl-cil-dev, libtaoframework-sdl1.2-cil, monodevelop-monogame, monodevelop-nunit, nant, openbve)
<RAOF> Harumph.
<pitti> RAOF: at this point you should try and install all those in a vivid-proposed chroot and see what apt has to say
<didrocks> chdist FTW! :)
<pitti> or schroot :)
<didrocks> sure ;)
<RAOF> As luck would have it, I happen to have a vivid schroot right here...
<pitti> this is my /etc/schroot/setup.d/90proposed: http://paste.ubuntu.com/9245404/
<pitti> so so
<pitti> so my vivid schroot has "aliases=vivid,vivid-proposed", and if I enter "vivid-proposed", that hook will enable -proposed
<RAOF> Huh.
<RAOF> I always have -proposed enabled in my schroots, at least my sbuild schroots.
<RAOF> That's what it's built against on the buildds, right?
<pitti> right
<RAOF> Ok, it's monodevelop-monogame
<didrocks>  monodevelop-monogame : Depends: monodevelop (< 4.0.12.) but 5.5.0.227-1 is to be installed
<didrocks> yep :)
<larsu> good morning!
<didrocks> hey larsu!
<larsu> hi didrocks. Ã§a va?
<didrocks> larsu: Ã§a va bien, et toi ?
<larsu> didrocks: nickel!
<larsu> certainly not as tired as yesterday morning :)
<didrocks> nice :)
<didrocks> larsu: oh, thinking about it, yesterday night, I tried to change my weechat launchers to use the dbus-activated one as it's the only way to start a new instance as we discussed the other day
<didrocks> larsu: I tried to inspire myself from the snippet, but without any success (I'm unsure where the -e weechat-ncurses should be): http://paste.ubuntu.com/9245532/
<didrocks> so I still use the previous method and don't have window matching, if you have a minute to see what horrible typo I didâ¦ :)
<larsu> didrocks: wow, the command doesn't get forwarded to the main instance? That's probably a bug
<larsu> didrocks: you can work around for now by putting the command into the profile
<didrocks> larsu: anyway for me to give more infos?
<larsu> profile preferences > command > run a custom command instead of my shell
<larsu> didrocks: I'll let you know if I can reproduce after I made tea ;)
 * larsu needs tea
<didrocks> larsu: sure ;) ok, so I need to create a new profile in that case
<didrocks> pitti: mind if I work on the ubuntu side of the *dm today while the discussion with debian RT settle down? I maybe have an idea to remove the ExecStartPre=, but I need to experiment a little
<pitti> didrocks: oh, sounds great!
<pitti> didrocks: if you have time for it, sure; but I suppose we also have a fair number of DMs in Ubuntu which all need to be moved in lockstep?
<didrocks> pitti: yeah, 6, I can handle that between today and tomorrow, depending on how fast I succeed in this ExecStartPre" :)
<didrocks> removal*
<pitti> didrocks: do you have an idea what to replace it with? masking?
<didrocks> pitti: trying to set it with a generator
<larsu> didrocks: indeed. Looks like the -e is not passed when starting the _first_ terminal
<didrocks> that will as well handle changing /etc/X11/default-display-manager manually -> get the right systemd job starting
<didrocks> larsu: ah, I'm not that crazy then! But I have other terminals opened as well
<larsu> didrocks: try opening another terminal befre
<didrocks> larsu: I have a weechat terminal here
<didrocks> and some other terminal windows
<larsu> didrocks: but starting another one doesn't work?
<didrocks> I click on the launcher icon -> nothing
<didrocks> yeah, that's why I thought that my profile isn't correct
<larsu> ok, might be that the bug I found is not the one you're seeing
<larsu> it's a bug nonetheless :)
<didrocks> I guess not, but yeah ;)
<larsu> didrocks: but wait, weechat is running and you want to start another instance?
<larsu> or is the problem that unity doesn't switch to it
<didrocks> larsu: at least, I should see a window starting and stopping?
<larsu> ya, you should see that
<didrocks> larsu: it's not starting at all
<didrocks> larsu: let me close weechat for a sec, I have other terminals started
<didrocks> larsu: right, nothing happens
<larsu> didrocks: what happens when you start the command directly?
<larsu> gnome-terminal -e weechat-curses
<didrocks> larsu: hum, the profile doesn't exist anymore
<didrocks> it did exists before the package upgrade though
<didrocks> ok, so removing the --profile, it seems to work, let me try
<larsu> hm, it should have been transitioned
<larsu> Laney made this work, not sure how
<didrocks> Laney: ok, it's working at least now (weird that previous profiles got withdrawn though with newer gt)
<didrocks> oupss larsu $
<didrocks> larsu: however, how do you handle window matching now?
<didrocks> WM_CLASS(STRING) = "gnome-terminal-server", "Gnome-terminal"
<larsu> didrocks: I think it uses app id now
<didrocks> larsu: there is no matching under unity, does it work for you?
<larsu> didrocks: no, but app matching is broken on my system anyway right now - I thought that was the problem
<didrocks> larsu: doesn't seem so. We are back to the same issue than with my previous command then: gnome-terminal --window --class weechat -e weechat-curses
<larsu> :(
<larsu> I really don't like this --app-id thing
<didrocks> larsu: I'm afraid we are going to have a lot of similar use-case being broken
<didrocks> like people having separate ssh terminal on their launchers
 * larsu shakes fist at desrt
<larsu> didrocks: ya... having to have a separate app id / service is stupid
<larsu> should just be gnome-terminal --profile=my-profile
<didrocks> larsu: I'm sure we'll have a lot of angry adminsâ¦ and agreed, it's a little bit too much boilerplate for a launcher
<didrocks> larsu: at least, the app id should be in WM_CLASS
<didrocks> that would help the matching
<larsu> it probably works on shell
<didrocks> would be good for people to test it with unity as well when working on ubuntu :)
<larsu> haha, "people" ;)
<didrocks> I have lost enough time with this anyway, moving on
<larsu> fair enough
<didrocks> thanks for your help larsu :)
<larsu> I'll talk to desrt
<larsu> sorry :/
<didrocks> thanks!
<didrocks> no worry
<didrocks> larsu: I think having the app id in WM_CLASS would be a nice first step
<didrocks> WM_CLASS(STRING) = "gnome-terminal-server", "Gnome-terminal"
<didrocks> too generic
<larsu> right
 * didrocks does a tentative of a rain-free early exercising today as well
<seb128> didrocks goes earlier every day
<seb128> soon he's going to be out doing exercice before being awake yet ;-)
<seb128> didrocks, good luck!
<larsu> seb128: did you have time to look at landing the fix for bug #1386255 ?
<ubot5> bug 1386255 in overlay-scrollbar (Ubuntu) "devhelp and many other apps crash with SIGSEGV in g_closure_invoke() due to overlay-scrollbars" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1386255
<larsu> I saw you unsubscribed yourself...
<seb128> larsu, I'm not working on it which is why I'm unassigned
<seb128> I tried to do a landing on friday afternoon but the autogenerated version was older than the current one, something weird with the CI
<larsu> seb128: autogenerated version of what?
<seb128> thanks for the reminder, I gave up on the landing then because I wanted to call it a day and not start debugging CI
<seb128> going to try agian now
<seb128> of the package
<larsu> oh cool, thanks
<larsu> let me know if I can help out
<seb128> I doubt you can, that was purely packaging and CI automation
<seb128> but thanks
<willcooke> morning all
<seb128> hey
<larsu> morning willcooke!
<willcooke> what's going down
<willcooke> ?
<willcooke> did we ever reach a consensus about that .desktop stuff from yesterday evening?
<larsu> there was some more discussion about it in #gtk
<larsu> nothing productive it seems
<willcooke> :/
<willcooke> seb128, do you want to keep pushing forward with it, or shall we park it until next week?
<seb128> willcooke, no really, it goes down to "the technical decision was made to just rename without considering upgrades/stability, now we have to add logic in different places to try to be smart about it but it's never going to be perfect"
<seb128> willcooke, I'm done with it
<larsu> we're set on the general idea of having a mapping file somewhere
<seb128> reality check is that others don't care much
<willcooke> who are others?
<larsu> what we haven't agreed on is whether we map on access or have some kind of transition running once
<seb128> upstream, whoever is deciding that dbus activation has to be done this way
<larsu> seb128: this was desrt and me...
<seb128> let's say that the probably that they change their mind to support apps that want to do dbus activation without renaming ius low
<seb128> larsu, dunno, desrt told me several time that I was arguing with a strawman yesterday
<seb128> when talking to me
<seb128> so maybe I didn't understand what he meant
<larsu> meh, I don't want to get into this again now
<seb128> yeah, me neither
<seb128> willcooke, bottom line is that I'm in the minority but I think the fundamental approach taken, to force the renaming despite the compatibility breakage it represents, is wrong
<seb128> willcooke, it's going to force us into patching toolkit and doing complex workarounds that are not going to cover all cases
<willcooke> ok
<seb128> willcooke, but I'm overruled there so I'm just going to let Laney and desrt deal with it, they have ideas and they think it should work reasonably enough
<seb128> we shall see
<willcooke> ack
<seb128> I predict it's going to bite us back
<seb128> but let's see, I might be wrong ;-)
<Laney> oh hi
<seb128> hey Laney, wie gehts?
<Laney> seb128: okay thanks
<Laney> you?
<seb128> Laney, I'm good thanks ;-)
<Laney> someone's trying to start one of these in town https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/354625846/the-kitty-cafe-help-us-bring-cat-cafes-to-nottingh
<Laney> \o/
<seb128> nice!
<willcooke> lol
<willcooke> euggghhhh.  They serve food with loads of cats wondering about the place, pissing on everything.  yuck.
<Laney> HAHAHA
<willcooke> what happens to the cats at the end of the day?
<seb128> willcooke, you got it wrong, the cats are part of the food
<seb128> if you catch one you can eat it :p
<willcooke> seb128, lol! :D
<seb128> ;-)
<seb128> before people start looking at me wrong, I love cats and wouldn't hurt one, just for the record ;-)
<willcooke> :D
<chrisccoulson> hi mvo__, you around?
<chrisccoulson> hey willcooke, seb128. how's it going?
<willcooke> hey chrisccoulson
<seb128> hey chrisccoulson, good! you?
<willcooke> Laney, I am reminded of the Father Ted episode with the rabbits
<seb128> chrisccoulson, did you see that people really need some mp merged in?
<willcooke> "I'll take care of the rabbits".
<willcooke> "I'll put them in the vice"
<chrisccoulson> seb128, yeah, I'm aware ;)
<larsu> morning Laney
<mvo__> chrisccoulson: hello, yes
<Laney> man I haven't really watched father ted
<Laney> hey larsu, what's up?
<chrisccoulson> hi mvo__, how are you?
<larsu> Laney: playing around in the inspector. You?
<Laney> just saw that the daily images failed to build :-o
<mvo__> chrisccoulson: good, thanks. how are you?
<chrisccoulson> mvo__, yeah, not bad thanks. Busy :)
<Laney> seb128: can we put remmina-plugin-nx remmina-dbg in universe?
<Laney> just saw them on c-m
<mvo__> chrisccoulson: heh, tell me about it ;)
<chrisccoulson> mvo__, so, i'm a bit confused about https://code.launchpad.net/~mvo/oxide/multi-arch-fixes/+merge/242458 actually. I'm not sure I fully understand the problem yet
<seb128> Laney, why were they in main?
<chrisccoulson> the codecs packages already install everything in to a multi-arch path, don't they? (/usr/lib/<arch>/oxide-qt)
<mvo__> chrisccoulson: ok, where is the gap :) my goal is that I want to be able to do: apt-get install ubuntu-sdk-libs:armhf
<mvo__> chrisccoulson: they do? if thats the case, brilliant, I have checked some weeks (months?) ago and it wasn't back then
<mvo__> chrisccoulson: let me re-check
<Laney> wait it's not
<Laney> what is c-m showing
<chrisccoulson> AFAIR, that's always been the case. so perhaps there's a different problem
<Laney> ah just the dbg package I think
<Laney> it probably got a dependency on all of the plugins
<Laney> oh right, that one is new in vivid
<Laney> larsu: is inspector proving useful when doing theme fixes?
<mvo__> chrisccoulson: you are right, sorry for that, let me inspect whats going on
<chrisccoulson> no worries :)
<larsu> Laney: insanely
<larsu> Laney: especially for playing around with selectors. Open widget factory, write a rule with 'background-color: green' and see if you only select the things you want to
<willcooke> oh. well crap.  It turns out I've had access to the beta of Elite Dangerous all this time, but I never logged in to their crappy forums so I didn't get told.
<willcooke> never mind, no Windows machine to play it on anyway
<Laney> wait
<Laney> WAIT
<Laney> Firefox just started and restored my tabs without it being embarrassing
<larsu> it does this all the time for me, unless it gets killed early
<Laney> I get that 0% of the time
<larsu> which happens ~50% of the time when logging out without closing it first
<Laney> maybe it's because I shut down without closing it 100% of the time ;-)
<larsu> ya...
<mvo__> chrisccoulson: I looked into this again and removed my other merge proposal, the issue is https://code.launchpad.net/~mvo/oxide/crossbuild-friendly/+merge/234093 - i.e. conflict across arches thats causing the trouble. the other MP was silly (bad memory on my part what the real problem was)
<chrisccoulson> mvo__, aha, thanks for looking at it :)
<mvo__> chrisccoulson: I will think a bit more about it, maybe the arch specific conflict in there is indeed the best option (even though it feels a bit ugly)
<willcooke> seb128, qengho was looking to get the official flash plugins in to the archive - how can I find out if that happened without asking him?
<willcooke> I've looked in apt-cache search and I see, e.g. "pepperflashplugin-nonfree"
<willcooke> which makes me think it's ther
<willcooke> e
<seb128> willcooke, not sure if that's the "official" one, maybe chrisccoulson knows?
<seb128> willcooke, but otherwise without knowing the package name I'm unsure, you can look on the -changes list
<Laney> pitti: hey, did you see the lvm2 â dmeventd component mismatch?
<chrisccoulson> it's not. qengho has some packages, but I still need to review them (I do have some comments on it actually)
<willcooke> thanks chrisccoulson, seb128
<didrocks> seb128: avoiding rain -> success, blocking knees -> failed :/
<seb128> didrocks, "blocking"?!
<didrocks> yeah, I couldn't run the last 200m in the park, knees hurting too much
<didrocks> so fast walk was fine and luckily and I could cycle back without any pain
<seb128> urg
<seb128> I hope it's a minor issue
<willcooke> :/
<didrocks> seb128: I do as well, the ground was compact due to the previous day rains
<didrocks> so hopefully just that
<didrocks> on the positive side, a lot of squirrels :)
<willcooke> didrocks, do you have good running shoes?
<willcooke> I'm expecting that you don't run in flip flops :)
<larsu> didrocks: be careful man!
<didrocks> willcooke: well, they are self-destroying right now TBH, so I need to change, but I never had knees issues with them
<willcooke> getting old :)
<didrocks> so can be related to current state, needs to get the motivation for shopping :)
<larsu> didrocks: I had lots of knee troubles that went away after a physician told me that I had muscle imbalance
<larsu> didrocks: also, I changed my running style
<didrocks> willcooke: yeah, that as well, I'm still looking for a patch
<didrocks> larsu: yeah, I don't have knees issues normally (apart if I'm just running multiple days on the sideway, what I avoid) since I run (3 years now), so I guess that would have declared earlier
<larsu> didrocks: makes sense, yeah
<larsu> be careful anyways ;)
<didrocks> yeah, thanks man :)
<pitti> Laney: ah, moved; thanks for pointing out
<willcooke> Couple of people have reported this now:  http://askubuntu.com/questions/553624/unity-gone-after-upgrading-14-10-to-latest-3-16-kernel
<seb128> willcooke, weird :/
 * willcooke -> haircut
<willcooke> back
<larsu> woah. quick.
<chrisccoulson> right, chromium is up-to-date in the archive now
<chrisccoulson> ^ qengho :)
<popey> chrisccoulson: i just did an update and get 404 on updating chromium
<popey> E: Failed to fetch http://security.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/universe/c/chromium-browser/chromium-codecs-ffmpeg-extra_39.0.2171.65-0ubuntu0.14.10.1.1106_amd64.deb  404  Not Found [IP: 91.189.91.24 80]
<ogra_> popey, forgotten apt-get update ?
<popey> nope, did that immediately before.
<popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/9249354/
<ogra_> right, i was just stating the obvious :)
<popey> of course
<chrisccoulson> popey, it seems you just hit at the wrong point during the publisher run
<seb128> hum
<popey> ok, I'll update again
<chrisccoulson> it's there now
<seb128> didrocks, pitti, Laney, something is not working anymore in vivid with suspend inhibitors
<popey> you're right chrisccoulson â»
<seb128> the setting to do nothing on lid close when on power doesn't work
<seb128> laptop does suspend anyway
<didrocks> seb128: oh, interesting, mind filing a bug?
<seb128> didrocks, against what? systemd?
<seb128> can somebody confirm?
<didrocks> let's put it there and we'll see
<didrocks> can try
<seb128> just change the setting in u-c-c and try to close the lid
<didrocks> so, power
<didrocks> and do nothing
<didrocks> one sec
<Laney> I don't have vivid on laptop yet
<didrocks> seb128: argh, working here :/
<seb128> shrug
<didrocks> when lid is closed and power on -> setting to "do nothing". Closing lid -> doesn't suspend
<Laney> anything interesting in usd output?
<seb128> $ gdbus call --system -d org.freedesktop.login1 -o /org/freedesktop/login1 -m org.freedesktop.login1.Manager.ListInhibitors
<seb128> ([('handle-power-key:handle-suspend-key:handle-hibernate-key', 'seb128', 'GNOME handling keypresses', 'block', uint32 1000, uint32 3953), ('sleep', 'root', 'inhibited', 'delay', 0, 1097), ('shutdown:sleep', 'Telepathy', 'Disconnecting IM accounts before suspend/shutdown...', 'delay', 1000, 4403)],)
<pitti> where is that precisely? I don't any more have columns for "on power"/"on battery"
<pitti> well, I don't currently have a battery inserted, I guess that's why
<seb128> pitti, settings -> power
<seb128> yeah
<davmor2> didrocks: seb128: I'm assuming both of you are on the most recent version of vivid with it right?
<didrocks> davmor2: yeah
<seb128> yeah
<didrocks> freshly updated this morning
<seb128> same here
<seb128> but the bug is there for some time
<pitti> "do nothing" -> opening lid, closing lid, nothing happens
<seb128> didrocks, what does that ^ call returns for you?
<pitti> setting to "suspend" -> opening and closing lid, still nothing happens
<didrocks> ([('sleep', 'root', 'inhibited', 'delay', uint32 0, uint32 762), ('handle-power-key:handle-suspend-key:handle-hibernate-key', 'didrocks', 'GNOME handling keypresses', 'block', 1000, 1237), ('shutdown:sleep', 'Telepathy', 'Disconnecting IM accounts before suspend/shutdown...', 'delay', 1000, 2455), ('shutdown:sleep', 'didrocks', 'user session inhibited', 'block', 1000, 1249)],)
<pitti> in a way that's good as it's in a dock and not supposed to suspend
<pitti> but it sounds like the opposite of what you have
<seb128> hum
<seb128> didrocks has a shutdown:sleep inhibit
<didrocks> pitti: confirmed, doesn't suspend here even with the setting on
<didrocks> which is weird, I do remember to have it suspending just this week-end
<didrocks> (I didn't want to reboot and I was plugged (was I?))
<seb128> Laney, usd log only has
<seb128> (unity-settings-daemon:3953): media-keys-plugin-WARNING **: Failed to get old screen percentage: GDBus.Error:org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.ServiceUnknown: The name org.gnome.SettingsDaemon.Power was not provided by any .service files
<pitti> yeah; I did that a while ago, and for the first time in years I was happy that it doesn't suspend while it's docked
 * didrocks has doubts now
<pitti> "loginctl show-seat", btw
<Laney> well, doesn't need everyone, these two can debug it with you ;-)
<pitti> ah no, that doesn't show the lid/suspend inhibitors
<seb128> pitti, "gdbus call --system -d org.freedesktop.login1 -o /org/freedesktop/login1 -m org.freedesktop.login1.Manager.ListInhibitors" does?
<seb128> or you want a systemd command?
<pitti> ([('sleep', 'root', 'inhibited', 'delay', uint32 0, uint32 730), ('handle-power-key:handle-suspend-key:handle-hibernate-key', 'martin', 'GNOME handling keypresses', 'block', 1000, 1767), ('shutdown:sleep', 'Telepathy', 'Disconnecting IM accounts before suspend/shutdown...', 'delay', 1000, 2242)],)
<pitti> seb128: yeah, I was just wondering if there's a simpler way
<seb128> pitti, that looks similar to mine
<seb128> you have sleep inhibited with a delay?
<seb128> but not blocked?
<Laney> desrt: glib testsuite time - can you think why https://git.gnome.org/browse/glib/tree/glib/tests/mainloop.c#n1640 would fail (nfds == 3) on LE powerpc64 only?
<pitti> seb128: yeah, that's telepathy
<pitti> seb128: it wants to disconnect before sleeping, so it can defer suspend
<pitti> seb128: oh, right
<pitti> seb128: so it seems I don't have the expected inhibitor as well?
<seb128> seems so
 * pitti needs to grab some lunch, brb
<seb128> pitti, enjoy!
 * Laney lunches too
 * seb128 just back from it
 * larsu too
<chrisccoulson> popey, i've pinged IS about it in case it warrants further investigation. Apparently that's not meant to happen
<popey> so i see â»
<chrisccoulson> oh, you're there too
<desrt> Laney: fun times
<larsu> desrt: morning. time to talk gnome-terminal profile-as-app?
<desrt> good morning
<desrt> i'm afraid i don't have a lot to contribute to that discussion right now, but sure :)
<larsu> for starters, .local/share/dbus-1/services doesn't seem to be in dbus' search path on ubuntu
<larsu> also, window matching on unity is broken (WM_CLASS doesn't include the profile name)
<desrt> Laney: if i were to guess, i'd say https://git.gnome.org/browse/glib/commit/?id=b3e3ed73864143e732c4d65441eaec086a3ab83e has something to do with it
<larsu> and also, it's just too complicated...
<larsu> a .desktop file should be enough
<desrt> when we have systemd as a session manager it will be...
<larsu> why?
<larsu> oh, right
<desrt> it will use a dbus-service-named desktopfile as a service file
<larsu> still, why can't I just tell the server to spawn a new window with the right profile?
<larsu> its all one process anyway...
<larsu> *it's
<larsu> Laney: do you have a utopic vm around? Can you make a screenshot of the first panel of gtk3-widget-factory for me pretty please?
<larsu> in Ambiance or Radiance
<seb128> larsu, I have
<seb128> larsu, give me a minute, need to boot vm and install the factory
<larsu> thanks!
<seb128> larsu, http://people.canonical.com/~seb128/gtk.png
<seb128> larsu, shrug, you got a didrocks notification in there ;-)
<didrocks> spoiler alert, french inside! :)
<larsu> seb128: ok. much more broken with 3.14 than I thought. Thanks a lot!
<seb128> larsu, yw
<seb128> larsu, :-(
<larsu> seb128: it's fine. You'll like the diffstat of this....
<seb128> lot of - ? ;-)
<larsu> ya
<larsu> *a lot*
<seb128> nice!
<larsu>  3 files changed, 49 insertions(+), 232 deletions(-)
<larsu> so far
<seb128> great ;-)
<larsu> no visible changes (except some fixes that we discussed)
<seb128> let me know if you want more testers
<jhodapp> willcooke, ping
<seb128> larsu, btw overlay-scrollbar should be buildable through CI again, sil2100 is fixing their tools, they had regressions due to buggy code changes
<larsu> nice, thanks
<seb128> yw, thanks to sil, I just pointed the issue and he debugged it
<Laney> larsu: kay, sec
<larsu> Laney: seb already helped, thanks
<Laney> desrt: indeed, not sure why it would be arch specific though
<Laney> ah sweet
<desrt> Laney: 'bugs'
<Laney> heh
<larsu> desrt: no further comment on the terminal thing? Do I have to talk to chpe about it? :/
<willcooke> jhodapp, pong
<desrt> larsu: i've discussed with chpe a couple of times that 'something nicer' would be .. nice
<larsu> desrt: I guess no specifics about possible values of 'nicer'? is there a bug about this?
<desrt> not as far as i know
<larsu> I'd love to have a menu item like epiphany
<larsu> "make this profile into an app"
<desrt> actually, there may be a bug about this
<desrt> i remember writing about this
<larsu> I didn't find anything
<desrt> because it's not quite as easy as the ephy case
<larsu> why not?`
<desrt> because some of my terminal profiles are app-like and others are alternate-preference-set-like
<larsu> right, so don't click the menu item for the latter
<desrt> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=719999
<ubot5> Gnome bug 719999 in Profiles "better profile support" [Normal,New]
<larsu> desrt: thanks
<jhodapp> willcooke, hey...interesting development I learned about today...
<jhodapp> willcooke, ylopes, the maintainer of QtMultimedia is tasked with implementing hardware video decoding using VAAPI for QtMultimedia asap
<jhodapp> willcooke, he's interested in coordinating with your team on this
<qengho> willcooke: fyi, the chromium you were expecting has landed.
<willcooke> qengho, thanks :)
<willcooke> jhodapp, cool :)
<jhodapp> willcooke, this would be with the qtmultimedia port to gstreamer 1.x finally landing too
<willcooke> jhodapp, I was about to ask, does this work with GStreamer :)
<jhodapp> willcooke, it'll first be available in Qt 5.5, but will be turned off by default
<jhodapp> willcooke, yes, it'll be implemented using gstreamer's vaapi plugin
<jhodapp> willcooke, mind if I pass on your email addr to him?
<willcooke> jhodapp, please do, I'll need to pull in seb128 as well, but happy to get a conversation going
<willcooke> thanks jhodapp
<seb128> willcooke, do what?
<jhodapp> willcooke, yes, that is my goal: to start the conversation now
<jhodapp> willcooke, QtMultimedia with Gst 1.x will need a lot of testing on the desktop alone, let alone enabling hardware video decoding
<willcooke> seb128, to sync up with the guy who's getting QtMultimedia using VAAPI on the desktop
<seb128> oh ok
<willcooke> (well, for us it will be on the desktop)
<willcooke> jhodapp, that might be a good candidate for the Desktop Next image, so we can see if working there first
<jhodapp> willcooke, indeed!
<jhodapp> willcooke, it's very exciting because we'll finally be able to unseed gstreamer 0.10 from the default image
<jhodapp> and let it RIP
<willcooke> :D
<ogra_> high hopes
<willcooke> heh
<Laney> interesting
<Laney> it only fails with MALLOC_CHECK_=2 ./mainloop --tap
<desrt> Laney: did you try a revert?
<Laney> no
<Laney> a revert will remove the test
<desrt> oh.  it's a new test?
<Laney> ya
<desrt> interesting
<Laney> it's interesting that it is so sensitive
<desrt> and the problem is on ppc64 _LE_?
<Laney> right, like we have in D & U now
<desrt> weird that it should be on another 64bit le arch
<desrt> ppc64 be would not have surprised me
<Laney> do you have access to the Canonical porter machines? it reproduces there
<desrt> no
<desrt> i really ought to have it though :)
<Laney> go ask #is for that if you want to look
<bregma> mlankhorst, did you get ChrisTownsend's email yesterday looking for help tracking down a problem in XMir?
<willcooke> bregma, mlankhorst is out today
<willcooke> should be back in tomorrow
<seb128> speaking of which
<seb128> didrocks, Laney, larsu, others, I'm having a VAC day tomorrow so don't worry if I'm not around, I'm back on friday
<Laney> oh, enjoy!
<Laney> finally going to the poezenboot?
<seb128> haha, that's an interesting idea, let's see ;-)
<seb128> qengho, hey, did you find a bug report about the chromium/i965 issue? still happening with today's updates
<mdeslaur> qengho: is that happening with chrome also? or are they not using the same sandbox as chromium?
<qengho> mdeslaur: same with chrome
<mdeslaur> qengho: ugh :(
<qengho> seb128, mdeslaur: https://code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=415681   http://keithp.com/blogs/chromium-dri3/
<qengho> seb128: I'm going to try look at a workaround. I may need a tester.
<seb128> qengho, ok, feel free to ping if you need testing, I can easily do that
<didrocks> seb128: enjoy man!
<seb128> didrocks, thanks ;-)
<qengho> seb128: Give me your "lsmod" in a pastebin, plese?
<seb128> qengho, http://paste.ubuntu.com/9252254/
<mdeslaur> qengho: can't you do like they did here? https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromium/src/+/caa8c58cb570091ea27d8d75a406022ef8e0e82d%5E!/#F0
<qengho> seb128:  echo 'lsmod |grep ^i915\  >/dev/null && export LIBGL_DRI3_DISABLE=1' |sudo tee /etc/chromium-browser/customizations/50-intel-dri3
<larsu> seb128: enjoy!
<seb128> larsu, danke
<larsu> seb128: any plans?
<seb128> larsu, not really, just days to use before decembre and weather should be nice
<qengho> mdeslaur: Something like that. More targeted, maybe.
<seb128> bah
<seb128> Laney, pitti
<seb128> $ ldd -r /usr/lib/unity-settings-daemon-1.0/libpower.so
<seb128> undefined symbol: up_client_enumerate_devices_sync	(/usr/lib/unity-settings-daemon-1.0/libpower.so)
<seb128> I wonder if my inhibit issue is due to that
<seb128> (some test user logs have the missing symbol error, wonder why my user doesn't)
<seb128> ** (unity-settings-daemon:18547): WARNING **: /usr/lib/unity-settings-daemon-1.0/libpower.so: undefined symbol: up_client_enumerate_devices_sync
<seb128> it does when running manually
<seb128> didrocks, ^
<seb128> ** (unity-settings-daemon:18547): WARNING **: Cannot load plugin 'Ãnergie' since file '/usr/lib/unity-settings-daemon-1.0/libpower.so' cannot be read.
<didrocks> seb128: oh nice catch!
<seb128> that probably explain why screen controls keys don't work either
 * seb128 looks for a fix
<didrocks> indeed
<Laney> there's some upstream fixes for new UPower things
<Laney> probably take those
<seb128> yeah, that's what I'm looking at
<seb128> Laney, ok, I think we want at least https://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-settings-daemon/commit/?id=3ebfd1fb9311a2e7f6af748ee0a534c1e7f6946b
<seb128> but it doesn't apply cleanly/there were some prior changes to that source
<seb128> I'm unsure how much changes we want, but I'm not going to be able to get that done today
<seb128> so feel free to work on that tomorrow if you want
<seb128> or I'm going to go back to it on friday
<seb128> didrocks, didn't we say we would use the "transitions" ppa for bluez? seems like the "bluez5" is being used (shame that we can't delete one which has been created)
<Laney> yeah I need to update to vivid first, will see if I get to it tomorrow
<didrocks> seb128: urgh, at worst, I'll do a source copy, not sure why this one was used, the blueprint has the right one mentionned
 * didrocks put a notes
<didrocks> seb128: btw, now that I fixed the xdm issues without any unit file, your turn! Unity doesn't starts with xdm :p
<seb128> lol
<seb128> do you know why?
<seb128> oh, I know I bet
<didrocks> unsure, can be that DESKOPT_SESSION isn't set properly?
<didrocks> DESKTOP*
<didrocks> gdm works
<seb128> it's bug #1293629
<ubot5> bug 1293629 in gnome-session (Ubuntu) "[Regression] [Trusty] Unity can't be started from kdm" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1293629
<didrocks> ok, XDG_CURRENT_DESKTOP
<didrocks> not sure we do really care anyway, especially for xdm, my eyes are bleeding everytime it's starting :)
<didrocks> but still more modern than wdm :p
<pitti> seb128: ouch, indeed! that needs porting to upower 0.99 then, enumeration isn't necessary any more
<seb128> pitti, cf what I wrote to Laney, I'm not going to be able to do that today and I'm off tomorrow, so if one of you want to work on that please do, otherwise I can look to it on friday
<Laney> not failing on implicit declaration FTL
<seb128> yeah
<seb128> not having report of u-s-d plugin load fails FTL as well
<seb128> not the first time we got bitten by a plugin silently failing to load
<seb128> I also wonder why your power options to inhibit suspend work if the plugin fails to load
<Laney> mine?
<seb128> well, those who tried earlier
<seb128> could be didrocks and pitti
<seb128> I don't remember now who tested ;-)
<Laney> certainly not me
<Laney> is this why my screen doesn't blank after it locks though?
<seb128> k, so didrocks and pitti
<seb128> could be yes
<Laney> I thought I noticed it but I always turn the monitors off so wasn't sure
 * didrocks eod, see you guys!
<didrocks> enjoy your thursday seb128 :)
 * willcooke -> EOD. 
<willcooke> Day off tomorrow.  Don't burn anything.
 * chrisccoulson sets fire to everything
<charles> my hair!
<chrisccoulson> heh
<desrt> Laney: i suppose i'm meant to be using pbuilders on the porter boxes...
<desrt> or schroots
<qengho> mdeslaur:  echo 'lsmod |grep ^i915\  >/dev/null && export LIBGL_DRI3_DISABLE=1' |sudo tee /etc/chromium-browser/customizations/50-intel-dri3
<qengho> mdeslaur: tell me how that goes with chromium.
<mdeslaur> qengho: wfm
<qengho> mdeslaur: thanks.
<mdeslaur> qengho: I haven't tested with the AA profile though, might want to try it first
<qengho> apparmor?
<mdeslaur> yeah, sorry, apparmor
<Steve_Jobs> is the there a good irc room to discuss compiz? or would this be it?
<robert_ancell> TheMuso, how much stuff breaks when you switch to bluez5?
<robert_ancell> Wondering if I can do this safely on my dev machine
<TheMuso> robert_ancell: I have no idea, I haven't tested it mseyfl, I'm still on utopic.
<TheMuso> I just did the package merge/update for pulse.
<robert_ancell> TheMuso, did you run from the PPA or just upload pulse to it?
<robert_ancell> TheMuso, then the related question - if I use that PPA and pull down pulse will bad things happen?
<TheMuso> I just uploaded pulse to it.
<robert_ancell> oh stuff it. I'm just going to switch to vivid
#ubuntu-desktop 2014-11-27
<didrocks> good morning
<didrocks> hey pitti, how are you?
<pitti> bonjour didrocks -- trÃ¨s fatigue :/ comment vas-tu ?
<didrocks> pitti: oh, pourquoi fatiguÃ© ?
<didrocks> moi Ã§a va
<pitti> didrocks: je suis allÃ© dormir tard hier soir, aprÃ¨s basketball
<didrocks> ahâ¦ ok, donc peu de sommeil!
<mitya57> xnox: do you have anything against me merging gnome-keyring 3.14 (you touched it last)?
<mitya57> I have prepared a merge based on 3.10.1-1ubuntu7 a couple of days ago (in ppa:mitya57/gnome-test), it needs minor rebasing on -1ubuntu9 though.
<willcooke> oh.  day off.  oops
<Laney> hey hey
<didrocks> morning Laney
<didrocks> how goes?
<Laney> pretty decent
<Laney> we had curry + cake last night
<Laney> the cake in volume was 50% icing and 50% cake
<Laney> \o/
<Laney> you?
<didrocks> nice! :)
<didrocks> everything's fine here, today is eye doctor day and see what happened in the last 2 years of half :/
<Laney> going to get a new prescription?
<Laney> desrt: did you figure out how to use them?
<didrocks> probably, I'm not confortable anymore with my glasses when watching tv
<Laney> I went like 5 years ago and was told I would need reading glasses at some point
<Laney> still don't have any problems that I can detect though ...
<didrocks> well, I guess the longer you don't need them, the better
<Laney> ya
<Laney> the parents got them when they were about 45
<didrocks> that's nice!
<didrocks> well, I see the positive side that at least, I have no issue with my tooth (never got *anything* to them)
<Laney> ha, nice
<didrocks> we can't have advantages everywhere I guess ;)
<Laney> guess the parents made you brush well early on ;-)
<didrocks> not especially, I would say I wasn't eating a lot of candies, but stillâ¦ ;)
<Laney> hehe
<Laney> I need to switch back to offlineimap
<Laney> syncmaildir is just too slooooooooowwwwww
<didrocks> I guess I'll switch to mut + offlineimap soon, thunderbird is getting slower and slower
<didrocks> my filtering are all server-side, so cost to switch is small
<Laney> yep
 * Laney runs a sync
<Sweet5hark> moin
 * mitya57 loves our branch/version numbering
<mitya57> A branch named lp:~indicator-applet-developers/indicator-applet/trunk.14.04 contains version 12.10.2+15.04.20141111.
<Laney> bahaha
<ricotz> mitya57, hi, just wondering what is up with the "gnome-panel" transition?
<Laney> I think if you manually fix the upstream part it works
<Laney> i.e. the CI train uses that
<mitya57> ricotz: I patched all packages except one (apt-watch), and for that I filed RM request.
<mitya57> That is bug 1396690 (TL;DR: upstream is dead, and update-notifier is better)
<ubot5> bug 1396690 in apt-watch (Ubuntu) "Please remove apt-watch from archive" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1396690
<ricotz> mitya57, i see, patched as in locally prepared?
<mitya57> Laney: I know, but then it will be less funny.
<mitya57> ricotz: no, in -proposed
<Laney> I once wrote a UDD query to find the longest versions ever used in Ubuntu
<Laney> the results were cool
 * Laney wonders if it's still in psql history
<Laney> OHO!
<Laney> flashplugin-nonfree has been knocked off the top spot!
<ricotz> mitya57,ok, e.g. indicator-applet?
<Laney> http://paste.ubuntu.com/9265630/
<mitya57> Ooh
<mitya57> ricotz: indicator-applet doesn't need patching, it needs a simple rebuild (I filed a MP in hope that can be done via the CI Train).
<Laney> link?
<Laney> if it's just a rebuild then JFDI IMHO
<Laney> i.e. self approve and CI train it
<mitya57> ricotz: The patched packages are uim, workrave, sensors-applet, gnubiff and netspeed.
<mitya57> Laney: https://code.launchpad.net/~mitya57/indicator-applet/no-change-rebuild/+merge/242470
<ricotz> mitya57, yeah, although this one is missing ;)
<mitya57> I don't have rights to approve/merge it.
<Laney> there
<mitya57> Thanks
<Laney> train does the merge part
<ricotz> :)
<mitya57> Laney: now I should go to #ubuntu-ci-eng and request a silo, right? or just upload it directly to archive?
<Laney> You can upload it or try to use the train if you want to figure out how
<mitya57> OK, let's try the latter =)
<Laney> For no-change rebuilds the next uploader of a real change can just tell it to ignore the trunk/archive mismatch
<Laney> mitya57: okay so add a line at the bottom of http://wiki.ubuntu.com/citrain (google spreadsheet) and fill in columns A B F H I J
<mitya57> I only have read access to that
<Laney> blerg
<Laney> do you have a google account?
<Laney> maybe sil2100 can give you access?
<mitya57> sil2100: ^ please :) I am mitya57 at gmail com
<xnox> Laney: if i do branches, would you do landing for me? or should i just dput into the archive...?
<xnox> (for vivid)
<Laney> what kind of branches?
<xnox> Laney: rebuild unity greeter / control center to pick up 15.04 embeded in the image.
<Laney> no-change rebuild> upload IMHO
<Laney> but also you should be able to use the train yourself in the same way I'm trying to get mitya57 able to right now
 * mitya57 wonders why xnox ignores his questions about gnome-keyring merge
<xnox> mitya57: hm?
<mitya57> xnox: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2014/11/27/%23ubuntu-desktop.html#t07:58
<xnox> mitya57: his as in my own, or yours?
<xnox> mitya57: sorry, missed in my irc proxy scrollback.
<mitya57> My merge
<mitya57> also http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2014/11/25/%23ubuntu-desktop.html#t11:37
<mitya57> No problem, I also miss it sometimes :)
<xnox> mitya57: yeah, i don't want it yet. I'd want to have the current sru land into at least utopic for https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-keyring/+bug/1387303
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1387303 in gnome-keyring (Ubuntu Utopic) "regression: gnome-keyring components can't be disabled anymore" [Undecided,New]
<xnox> mitya57: and then do merge to get new shiny goodness.
<xnox> mitya57: as there are about 9 dupes and people are angry.
<mitya57> Ok, fine, then I'll wait
<xnox> mitya57: also don't merge before talking to TIL =)
<xnox> mitya57: i'm happy to give up a few things, but not everything at the moment.
<sil2100> mitya57: access to the CI Train spreadsheet, right?
<mitya57> sil2100: yes
<sil2100> o/ Let me add you then, one momen
<mitya57> xnox: btw there are LOTS of memory leak fixes in upstream git, we should definitely have that in vivid
<xnox> mitya57: yeah, yeah.
<xnox> we will.
<xnox> mitya57: re:apt-watch why not request removal in debian? and then removals are auto-propagated to ubuntu
<sil2100> Laney, mitya57: added to both spreadsheet and the LP team
<mitya57> xnox: in Debian we don't yet have a gnome-panel transition, so that is not urgent
<Laney> sil2100: ta
<mitya57> sil2100: thanks a lot
<xnox> mitya57: it fails to build from source or something? or needs porting?
<sil2100> mitya57: remember that we have documentation for our landing process here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/citrain/LandingProcess
<mitya57> needs porting first from gconf to gsettings, and then to new gnome-panel
<xnox> Laney: ah seb already uploaded unity-control-center version string bump. so it's only the greeter.
<Laney> cool
<xnox> mitya57: probably best to demote it from release pocket to -proposed, thus it would not block migrations but still in the development archive / in-sync with debian.
<xnox> mitya57: is it the last blocker for the transition?
<mitya57> xnox: yes. indicator-applet is not yet uploaded but will be done soon
<mitya57> ~ubuntu-archive is still the right team (for demoting), right?
<Laney> The docs mention pinging trainguards, but core-devs can do the silo assignment themselves, btw
<Laney> mitya57: just saw https://code.launchpad.net/~mitya57/unity-settings-daemon/headerbar-xsettings - overriding via org.gnome.settings-daemon.plugins.xsettings overrides still work with the fixed_false stuff?
<Laney> s/overriding/does overriding/
<mitya57> Laney: the docs say that the assign silo button is in "Landing team tools" menubar, but where is that?
<mitya57> Laney: yes, that will still work
<Laney> I see that next to "Help" at the top
<Laney> ok, I'm going to build/review/include that
<mitya57> Ah I see
<Laney> got it?
<mitya57> got it
<mitya57> Laney: did you read my whole message to ubuntu-desktop@?
<mitya57> (about that window buttons stuff)
<Laney> yeah
<Laney> I think we (larsu) were going to work on theming these this cycle
<mitya57> Actually maybe we don'
<mitya57> *don't need that fixed_false commit as it is a no-op
<Laney> I know gsd overrides it to true, so maybe gtk won't change the default
<Laney> it would probably be in bad taste for them to do so really
<mitya57> Laney: can I grab any empty landing ppa?
<mitya57> Laney: yes, I figured out that gtk default != g-s-d default only after pushing it
<Laney> well I don't mind either way, so revert it in the branch if you like
<Laney> if you leave the assign dialog at its defaults it auto-assigns one of the free PPAs
<mitya57> got this error from jenkins:
<mitya57> You must use POST method to trigger builds. (From scripts you may instead pass a per-project authentication token, or authenticate with your API token.) If you see this page, it may be because a plugin offered a GET link; file a bug report for that plugin.
<Laney> usual fail
<Laney> click the button
<Laney> authenticate then try again
<Laney> authenticate to jenkins that is, using SSO
<mitya57> It says that I am logged in
<Laney> what happened when you clicked proceed?
 * mitya57 logs out and then back in
<larsu> Laney: indeed (what exactly are you talking about?)
<mitya57> looks like it worked
<Laney> larsu: there's a patch to u-s-d to make headerbar decorations respect the gsetting
<Laney> i.e. for Ubuntu they go on the left
<Laney> also, hi, how's it going!
<Laney> mitya57: so now I normaly switch to http://people.canonical.com/~platform/citrain_dashboard/
<larsu> Laney: hi! Good! Just found out that we needlessy copy .pngs for Ambiance and Radiance into both themes...
<larsu> Laney: but why u-s-d? Shouldn't that be a gtk patch?
<larsu> Laney: how are you?
<Laney> usd has the xsettings manager
<Laney> it's where the mapping from gsettings into xsettings goes, then gtk gets it from there
<Laney> I am good
<larsu> right, I didn't know it didn't do that part yet
<larsu> want me to review?
<Laney> ya, g-s-d does but ... forks
<larsu> \o/
<Laney> if you like, I think it's mainly a cherry-pick
<Laney> https://code.launchpad.net/~mitya57/unity-settings-daemon/headerbar-xsettings
<mitya57> Laney, larsu: pushed the new version with only second commit
<Laney> ty
<larsu> I was about to complain :)
<larsu> looks good to me now
<larsu> not the way I'd have done it, but since this is a cherry pick and working, I won't complain
<larsu> Laney: I can't approve though, can you?
<Laney> ye
<Laney> larsu: want to comment approve?
<larsu> done
<Laney> merci
<larsu> neat: "Lars Uebernickel (community)"
<Laney> "(scum)"
<larsu> ts ts
<Laney> I mean "(valued contributor â¥)"
<Laney> typo
<chrisccoulson> it's a bit hostile in here this morning!
<larsu> haha - I want to see the keyboard that makes typos like this easy
<larsu> or your hands........
<Laney> dem slippery fingers
<sil2100> ;)
 * Laney tapes chrisccoulson to a lamppost
<Laney> i'll give you hostile
<Mirv> mitya57: welcome to the world of mouse clicking called citrain!
<chrisccoulson> lol
<Laney> right, I'm getting on the CI train
 * Laney toots
<Mirv> we used to have #ubuntu-ci-choo-choo for bot notifications, I kind of miss it
<sil2100> The choo-choo bot wouldn't work anymore with all the changes that happened I suppose
<mitya57> Mirv: :-)
<Laney> and the best thing is that all this knowledge will be obsolete soonâ¢ when we get the airline :)
<mitya57> While I am here: is there any way to merge something but not land to archive (i.e. when the change is minor)?
<Mirv> +1 to âsoonâ¢â
<Mirv> mitya57: kind of, but I doubt anyone has ever done that since it's cheap to publish too. one can make merge&clean job ignore the fact that the package is not published/indestinationarchive.
<Mirv> and it's cheap to add another (small or big) MP to the same landing
<mitya57> ok
<Laney> blerg
<Mirv> mitya57: what has been done though is direct pushing to trunk when there's no landing ongoing and eg. changelog needs updating to account for a no-change rebuild pushed to archives or such thing
<mitya57> ok
<mitya57> also, how does one build $random-non-cu2d-package in a silo?
<mitya57> (i.e. like Laney built webkitgtk for me)
<Laney> I put them in 'additional source packages' and then assigned a silo
<Laney> and I just dputted to it
<Mirv> core-dev:s can dput to the silo directly, like a manual upload but not to archives
<Laney> because I'm in ~ci-train-ppa-service
<Mirv> oh, maybe not all core-dev:s
<Mirv> right, only https://launchpad.net/~ci-train-ppa-service/+members
<mitya57> yes, I am a core dev, but LP says I am not in ~ci-train-ppa-service
<Laney> Not sure who can be added to that, talk to the administrators I guess
<Mirv> most landings are train landings and then non-train landings are pushed directly to archives, but mixed silos (feature needing both train and non-train packages) need some help from someone in that team
<mitya57> ok, will talk to admins if I need to test something like that again
<mitya57> oh, nice, indicator-applet FTBFS
 * mitya57 fixes
<Laney> pitti: you attached to your gvfs merge? I could borrow it if not
<pitti> Laney: please go wild
<Laney> ty
<pitti> Laney: but I thought I already merged it
<Laney> I uploaded the new release to exp
<pitti> Laney: oh, exp
<Laney> the wild west
<Laney> didrocks or larsu: If you see bug #1394063 or the one seb128 was talking about yesterday, could you check ppa:ci-train-ppa-service/landing-005 please?
<ubot5> bug 1394063 in unity-settings-daemon (Ubuntu) "[vivid regression] brightness keys aren't recognized" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1394063
<didrocks> Laney: the keys are working for me though (I don't have the upower segfault)
<Laney> it's not a segfault
<larsu> Laney: sorry, keys work fine for me as well
<Laney> ok
<didrocks> Laney: I meant, plugin not loading
<Laney> I think some laptops bypass the usd/userspace layer for brightness
<Laney> do you get a notification when changing it?
<didrocks> I do get it
<Laney> WEIRD!
<didrocks> there was a race in trusty btw, sometimes, not media key (including brightness) were working
<didrocks> no*
<didrocks> only way was to reboot the user session
<Laney> don't know about that
<larsu> I don't get the notification!
<larsu> now that I know this, I want it!
<Laney> you guys are bad test cases :p
<Laney> if offlineimap ever finishes syncing I'll dist-upgrade to vivid and try myself
<Laney> (doesn't seem very likely it's going to do so any time soon)
<larsu> Laney: missed the opportunity to say something like "do I have to do *everything* by myself"
<didrocks> larsu: don't want to challenge offlineimap syncing AND apt? :)
<larsu> haha
<Laney> heh
<didrocks> and yeah, ETOOMANYLA* again
<didrocks> needing a patch to sort this mess! ;)
<mlankhorst> \o/
<mlankhorst> compiz works
<didrocks> that's been my \o/ for years, get a new release working ;)
<didrocks> (I know, not the same context here :p)
<mlankhorst> hah
<Sweet5hark> no seb128 today? :_(
<larsu> Sweet5hark: he took the day off
<didrocks> Laney: do you know how to have your chroot sessions being dumped in /tmp ?
<Laney> dumped how?
<didrocks> (apart from a symlink from /var/lib/schroot/mount/ of course)
<didrocks> like I want my schroot sessions to be in /tmp/<session_name>
<Laney> hmm, don't know, you could try mounting a tmpfs at that directory though if that's what you want to do
<didrocks> yeah, I was thinking about that as well, you are not making your sbuild on tmpfs then, I guess?
<Laney> I use union-overlay-directory
<didrocks> Laney: and you point it to a tmpfs dir?
<didrocks> not /var/lib/schroot/union/overlay/ ?
<Laney> Yeah, or you could mount that as tmpfs I guess
<didrocks> interesting
<Laney> I also put /var/lib/sbuild/build on tmpfs but don't immediately remember why
<Laney> I think that's where it unpacks to
<didrocks> Laney: ah nice tip, let me have a try
<didrocks> Laney: yeah, you're right, it's the unpacking dir
<Laney> ruh roh
<Laney> There's some problem with glib 2.43 and GSettings
<Laney> I'm not getting a 'changed' callback
<Laney> hmm
<didrocks> Laney: isn't what desrt was talking about? There is now an order between connecting a signal and (? getting a value?)
<Laney> Probably
<Laney> I'm just reading that commit
<didrocks> I think he talked about it during the sprint and last week meeting :)
<didrocks> larsu knows as well about this
<didrocks> Laney: https://git.gnome.org/browse/glib/commit/?id=8ff5668a458344da22d30491e3ce726d861b3619
<didrocks> We do this in a simple way, using a simple argument: in order for the
<Laney> I know, I'm read it
<didrocks> user to care that a value changed then they must have:
<Laney> reading
<didrocks>  1) watched for a change signal; and then
<didrocks>  2) actually read a value
<larsu> right, the reasoning is that you can't care about that it changed when you've never read the initial value
<larsu> turns out that's wrong for a lot of use cases (for example, the gsettings-tool monitor command)
<larsu> Laney: what are you using it for?
<Laney> u-s-d watching the idle delay
<Laney> it should be reading the value at startup, let me see
<larsu> Laney: make sure it connects to the signal before reading the value
<Laney> it does
<Laney> this is weird though
<larsu> what is?
<Laney> https://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-settings-daemon/tree/plugins/power/gsd-power-manager.c#n1710
<Laney> "Don't dim when charging"
<larsu> why is that a thing?
<Laney> I'm basically confused now
<larsu> I guess because dimming is a battery-saving feature?
<Laney> it means you don't read the delay on a desktop
<larsu> so not really needed when not on battery
<larsu> that too
<Laney> the setting is called "Turn screen off when inactive for"
<larsu> "unless on battery" :P
<larsu> *not
<Laney> maybe I'm looking in the wrong place
<Laney> something is making my screen lock
<Laney> (and turn off)
<Laney> symptom was that $something wasn't noticing when I changed this setting
<larsu> u-s-d seems like a good candidate for $something
<Laney> ah
<Laney> I think it might come in via the screensaver
<Laney> bleh, changing it works now
 * Laney puts this to one side
<Laney> ok I lied and didn't put it to one side
<Laney> larsu: if you're still here ...
<Laney> With new glib I don't see a g_settings_bind_with_mapping firing
<Laney> is this affected by the same change?
<larsu> bind should read the value initially
<Laney> I see the first read but not subsequent ones
<Laney> not *changes*
<larsu> let me check
<larsu> which flags are you passing?
 * didrocks waves good evening
<larsu> didrocks: bye!
<Laney> G_SETTINGS_BIND_GET
<didrocks> good luck for your debugging larsu & Laney :)
<larsu> thanks!
<Laney> https://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-session/tree/gnome-session/gsm-manager.c#n2701 â that
<larsu> Laney: code looks correct. It connects to the changed signal and then reads the value
<larsu> Laney: you're sure it does the first read but then it doesn't get changed events?
<Laney> larsu: Yeah. Try with glib from vivid-proposed if you want...
<Laney> If you run gnome-session with --debug (/usr/share/upstart/sessions/gnome-session.conf append --debug there) you can see the watches being changed when the key changes
<larsu> Laney: I'm trying with master right now but gotta run soon. No promises ;)
<Laney> I'm running too, no worries, it'll still be broken tomorrow. :P
<larsu> yay \o
<Laney> but I believe this is the essence of the bug, so that's progress
 * Laney goes away, ttyl!
 * Laney remembers *not* to suspend as offlineimap is still going strong
<larsu> enjoy your evening!
<mitya57> ricotz: indicator-applet landed, but I missed command-runner-applet (which was using libpanel-applet via pygi). Will look at it tomorrow.
<Noskcaj> Are there any plans to try building liblldb-3.5-dev on amr64 and ppc64le?
<Noskcaj> If not, codelite needs patching to not use it
<Noskcaj> *arm64
<attente_> robert_ancell: hey, is there a reason you don't create a mir window impl when the window class is GDK_INPUT_ONLY?
<robert_ancell> attente_, I don't think Mir has a concept of input only windows
<attente_> oh, ok, there seems to be some code related to selecting text that depends on an impl existing
<desrt> via GtkInvisible
<rsalveti> Laney: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity-settings-daemon/+bug/1397135
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1397135 in unity-settings-daemon (Ubuntu) "Error in `/usr/lib/unity-settings-daemon/unity-settings-daemon': free(): invalid pointer" [Undecided,New]
#ubuntu-desktop 2014-11-28
<robert_ancell> cyphermox, Did the fix for bug 1035431 ever go upstream? It doesn't seem to be in git and I can't find a bz link
<ubot5> bug 1035431 in gnome-bluetooth (Ubuntu Trusty) "bluetooth-wizard failed to connect to a keyboard(logitech)" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1035431
<robert_ancell> I'm happy to do it, just don't want to duplicate work
<robert_ancell> timchen119, ^
<blahdeblah> bregma: ping - greyback suggested I talk to you here about narrowing down the component for logging a lockup bug.
<blahdeblah> I think it's probably an instance of https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1384342, but I'm not sure how to confirm
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1384342 in linux (Ubuntu) "kernel messages intel_crtc_wait_for_pending_flips correlate to compiz hang" [High,Triaged]
<blahdeblah> Symptoms are that all X applications become unresponsive to mouse, keyboard becomes unresponsive.
<blahdeblah> Mouse pointer still works, but is confined to screen 0 (my external monitor doesn't work).
<blahdeblah> On trusty, if I just let it sit there, it would come good after about 30-60 seconds.
<blahdeblah> On utopic, if I don't manually intervene and switch to a text console and back, it never comes back (at least not in the 12 minutes that I waited last time).
<blahdeblah> Switching to a text console and back works extremely slowly, but eventually does the right thing, and everything continues on.
<blahdeblah> Other symptoms are: out of order messages in /var/log/syslog (like, 5 minutes out of order), and no kernel oops until I switch VCs.
<blahdeblah> Here's the oops that does occur eventually: https://pastebin.canonical.com/121261/
<blahdeblah> After reading that bug more, I think it's the same one affecting me.  I've metooed it and added links to another oops & related bug that might be the same one.
<cyphermox> robert_ancell: it's backported from upstream git commits
<cyphermox> that said, I thought it had been uploaded already
<robert_ancell> cyphermox, it's not in upstream git
<cyphermox> the SSP code?
<robert_ancell> cyphermox, I've opened bugs with patches for our two remaining ubuntu patches
<robert_ancell> yes
<cyphermox> sure is, though not exactly as-is, since it was bluez5 code
<cyphermox> oh wait
<cyphermox> yeah ok, gnome-bluetooth
<robert_ancell> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=740829
<ubot5> Gnome bug 740829 in general "Wrong signature for org.bluez.Agent1.DisplayPasskey" [Normal,Unconfirmed]
<cyphermox> these parts might not be
<robert_ancell> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=740830
<ubot5> Gnome bug 740830 in general "Add default PIN for Logitech Ultrathin Touch mouse" [Normal,Unconfirmed]
<cyphermox> ok
<cyphermox> well, you're not duplicating work I've been doing
<cyphermox> though AIUI there were commits in upstream git that made the PIN for Ultrathin no longer required
<cyphermox> ah, I see, I'm mixing things up
<cyphermox> there was another thing for Microsoft devices
<cyphermox> robert_ancell: from your bug about updating gnome-bluetooth, have you uploaded the package to ppa:ubuntu-desktop/bluez5 too?
<robert_ancell> cyphermox, yes but to the transitions PPA as requested by didrocks
<cyphermox> err
<cyphermox> I thought we were using the one named bluez5
<robert_ancell> So I think he plans to do a binary copy into ppa:ubuntu-desktop/bluez5
<cyphermox> not that it changes much
<cyphermox> ok
<robert_ancell> I think there might be a change of plans based on the email discussion I had with didrocks and seb128
<cyphermox> I'll test it out in the morning; so I'll put my headset on charge now
 * RAOF should probably fire up his Ziks and see if they work there.
<cyphermox> let's see if everything landed
<TheMuso> The bluez5 PPA is no longer a thing... SO I guess the transitions PPA is what one should use...
<cyphermox> robert_ancell: ah, it was removed and everything is in transitions yes
<cyphermox> cool
<TheMuso> That really should be more widely announced...
<cyphermox> I'm not sure either was really announced
<cyphermox> at least pulse and bluez5 and gnome-bluetooth are there, so things might be in a good enough shape to be usable
<TheMuso> Sure the bluez5 ppa was not announced, but the thread we had going about pulse etc likely has people wondering where things have gone if they update and find a 404.
<cyphermox> yeah
<TheMuso> At least I was wondering about it.
<cyphermox> well, at least all the pieces seem to be in place for testing
<cyphermox> except for my headset batteries being charged, that is
<TheMuso> heh'
<cyphermox> I'm off to bed now, good day!
<robert_ancell> cyphermox, bye!
<didrocks> good morning
<seb128> lut didrocks
<didrocks> salut seb128
<seb128> Laney, bug #1397135 seems a regression from the upower fix from yesterday
<ubot5> bug 1397135 in unity-settings-daemon (Ubuntu) "Error in `/usr/lib/unity-settings-daemon/unity-settings-daemon': free(): invalid pointer" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1397135
<pitti> bonjour seb128 et didrocks
<seb128> rsalveti, you miss debug symbols for u-s-d in your bt
<seb128> lut pitti, comment Ã§a va aujourd'hui ?
<pitti> seb128: yeah, I get this all the time, I needed to downgrade
<didrocks> bonjour pitti ! moins fatiguÃ© qu'hier ?
<pitti> I filed it to errors.u.c., but it didn't turn up there yet
<pitti> didrocks: oui, j'ai me levÃ© Ã  5:30, mais je vais bien :)
<didrocks> couchÃ© tÃ´t hier soir j'imagine :)
<pitti> nous allons Ã  Dresden ce week-end, pour visiter nos familles
<pitti> didrocks: oui, 22h comme d'habitude :)
<didrocks> pitti: oh, 2 days is enough or you are taking the train and work from there this afternoon ?
<pitti> didrocks: the latter; I leave around 11:15 here and work in the train
<pitti> I have some systemd debugging to do :)
<didrocks> heh :)
<didrocks> pitti: I thought about another use case where presets can be an issue btw, going to write on the ML
<didrocks> hopefully relaunching the debate of separating distro preferences from /etc/
<pitti> didrocks: btw, it seems we may want the generator in jessie after all? so it needs porting to 215
<didrocks> would be nice to have Lennart's opinion on this
<pitti> *nod*
<didrocks> pitti: want me to do that now? should be easy
<pitti> didrocks: if you wish; I just uploaded -7, so we have a clear field for new release team requests :)
<pitti> didrocks: so please pull master before you rebase
 * didrocks does
<pitti> we also have 2 RC bugs, so -7 won't be the last one anyway
<didrocks> I think the function that was missing was the only one anyway
<pitti> *nod*
 * pitti hugs didrocks, the new systemd master
 * didrocks hugs pitti back, the master of all masters, as usual :)
<seb128> pitti, I wonder why e.u.c doesn't pick those u-s-d reports
<seb128> pitti, I guess yours is not https://errors.ubuntu.com/problem/fb3c4073786721c0e327ff099ccc1ea7666f6cb7 ?
<pitti> seb128: no, that looked different; I have an abort in free()
<seb128> what I though
<pitti> bug 1397135 is mine
<ubot5> bug 1397135 in unity-settings-daemon (Ubuntu) "Error in `/usr/lib/unity-settings-daemon/unity-settings-daemon': free(): invalid pointer" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1397135
<seb128> pitti, do you have a bt that includes the u-s-d symbols?
<pitti> ah sorry, no
<pitti> I can probably re-upgrade, get a fresh crash, and upload that to LP
<pitti> I just saw the above bug wasn't a "proper" apport one
<Sweet5hark> moin
<dholbach> hiya
<willcooke> FJKong, Have you played with gqrx at all?
<willcooke> hey dholbach
<dholbach> Laney, do you know where http://paste.ubuntu.com/9280386/ could be coming from?
<dholbach> hey willcooke
<Laney> hello
<Laney> oh good
<dholbach> it's exploding (and retheming everything in the process of it, like if g-s-d exploded) every minute
<Laney> downgrade it
<Laney> let me look
<seb128> Laney, hey
<seb128> Laney, rsalveti and pitti reported similar issues
<Laney> yes great, everybody is
<seb128> I wonder if that's doing it for everyone, I didn't try to restart my session (or u-s-d) yet
<Laney> no
<Laney> because I was running it all day
<seb128> k
<Laney> but get a better trace if you can
<Laney> although I wasn't using the archive binaries to be fair
<Laney> https://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-settings-daemon/commit/plugins/power/gsd-power-manager.c?id=6f1a6debd46cdd279bab8692aa7503e1f7ba954b
<Laney> well the trace on the bug is in that code
<Laney> sooooooo
<seb128> did you test on a laptop?
<Laney> no
<Laney> anyway I have it now, let's just take this code
<seb128> that's why
<seb128> 0xb387734f in device_perhaps_recall_delay_cb (user_data=0x972d150)
<seb128>     at gsd-power-manager.c:960
<Laney> yes
<Laney> I know, I just said
<seb128> is the invalid free
<seb128> k
<Laney> where's the upstream import for usd?
<seb128> upstream "import"?
<Laney> "yes"
<seb128> lp:unity-settings-daemon is the source
<Laney> the bzr branch
<seb128> dunno what you mean "import"
<Laney> there's one to cherry pick from
<seb128> try lp:gnome-settings-daemon
<seb128> that seems outdated though
<seb128> I don't think we did use proper vcs cherry pick for other changes
<dholbach> if you have a branch/patch you want tested locally, let me know
<Laney> there was a branch, robert set it up
<dholbach> I'm not sure... is rolling back to https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity-settings-daemon/15.04.0+15.10.20141030-0ubuntu1 going to fix it?
<seb128> Laney, ok, I don't know about that
<seb128> dholbach, yes
<dholbach> thanks, because this is a bit annoying :)
<seb128> it is
<Laney> I might just close IRC for a bit
<Laney> this is getting distracting
<seb128> Laney, checked my IRC log, I don't find reference to robert_ancell's import
<seb128> so sorry, can't help on that
<dholbach> brb
<larsu> morning!
<seb128> hey larsu, wie gehts?
<dholbach> hey larsu
<dholbach> larsu, hippie!
<seb128> Laney, feel free to close/ignore IRC any time during the day when trying to get work done, many do it ;-)
<larsu> dholbach: selber hippie!
<larsu> dholbach: how was the trip?
<larsu> seb128: good thanks! And you?
<dholbach> ah no, no need to restart - unity-settings-daemon restarted itself ;-)
<seb128> larsu, I'm good, thanks
<dholbach> larsu, quite nice, although I'm not quite as refreshed as having slept 8h in a non-moving bed :)
<dholbach> how about you?
<pitti> seb128: mind if I steal your policykit-1 merge?
<larsu> dholbach: haha! I'm good as well, thanks :)
<seb128> pitti, please do, I didn't intend to merge it anyway, most of the GNOME merges are a waste of efforts
<seb128> like they don't bring anything useful
<seb128> so I tend to skip them until there is something worth merging
<pitti> seb128: this one drops most of our delta, and I want a rebuild anyway
<seb128> k
<Laney> seb128: https://code.launchpad.net/~laney/unity-settings-daemon/lp1397135/+merge/243127 review please
<seb128> Laney, looking
<seb128> Laney, did you find the import vcs?
<Laney> no, I passed --author to fake it
<seb128> Laney, approved
<seb128> Laney, robert_ancell had https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop/gnome-settings-daemon/no-submodules
<seb128> just found that in some email
<seb128> Laney, he wrote that http://paste.ubuntu.com/9280748/
<Laney> ah
<Laney> you can do bzr branch on a git checkout?
<seb128> I never tried
<seb128> the email is maybe buggy ;-)
 * Laney eyes this job
<Laney> https://ci-train.ubuntu.com/job/ubuntu-landing-003-1-build/75/console
<Laney> what is "Build source package" doing?
<seb128> doing a source build of the deb
<seb128> so it can dput that to the ppa
<seb128> iirc
<seb128> k, log refresh
<seb128> it just dputed
<Laney> ah there
<Laney> just slow
<seb128> yeah
<seb128> dunno why the log didn't update periodically
<FJKong> willcooke: gqrx?
<willcooke> FJKong, it's like a simplified gui to Gnu Radio with a few demods already written for you and you just choose
<willcooke> quite good
<willcooke> the version in the archive has issues, but there is a ppa with newer versions in
<FJKong> willcooke: yes, it seems quite good
<willcooke> then you just need a cheap DVB-T dongle and you're away
<mlankhorst> willcooke: +sa5 seems to be good enough to run a full desktop with Xmir replacing Xorg+mir. But it also shows what mir is still lacking. :P
<mlankhorst> 10:51 < duflu> mlankhorst: https://bugs.launchpad.net/xmir/+bug/1216468, https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity-system-compositor/+bug/1204505
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1216468 in XMir "Mouse pointer lags behind slightly (still using software cursor instead of hardware)" [High,Triaged]
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1204505 in XMir "[enhancement] unity-system-compositor needs to have hw pointer functionality enabled back" [Medium,Triaged]
<willcooke> cool!  Thanks mlankhorst
<Laney> dholbach: want to try ppa:ci-train-ppa-service/landing-003 ?
<larsu> Laney: the name of the key if org.gnome.desktop.session idle-delay, but gsm-manager.c binds to idle-timeout...
<larsu> Laney: was the name changed?
<Laney> larsu: isn't idle-timeout the name of the property on the (G)object?
<Laney> (from memory)
<larsu> Laney: ah, freaking #defines
<larsu> Laney: you're right. False alarm
<larsu> (sorry)
<Laney> np, it's a bit confusing
<Laney> can you reproduce this now?
<larsu> no, wfm in a test program
<Laney> blerg
<dholbach> sure, let me try
<dholbach> Laney, seems to work fine AFAICT
<Laney> cool beans
<Laney> dholbach: thanks for checking
<Laney> going to release this now
<seb128> Laney, the u-s-d from the ppa works fine
<dholbach> rock on
<Laney> this train is leaving the station
<larsu> Laney: got it. FUCK.
<larsu> at least I think I do...
<Laney> got is reproduced or got is figured out?
 * larsu shakes fist in desrt's general direction
<larsu> but then ... I reviewed that patch :/
<larsu> Laney: both
<Laney> neat!
<larsu> 1. reproduce
<larsu> 2. find the issue
<larsu> 3. fix
<larsu> status: 2
<Laney> why's the gnome-session case different from your minimal one?
<Laney> well, fix then explain if you want ;)
<larsu> it subscribes to a detailed signal
<larsu> if I subscribe to changed::idle-delay, I don't get events at all
<larsu> works if I subscribe to changed
<Laney> ah
<Laney> but you get the initial value yeah?
<larsu> yes, this is already in the "correct" case
<larsu> g_settings_bind() uses detailed signals...
<Laney> ya, makes sense
<larsu> great, now my screen turns off after 100ms
 * larsu should have chosen another key to test :D
<larsu> Laney: I have two possible fixes, but need to ask desrt which he prefers
<larsu> the problem is that g_signal_has_handler_pending() only returns TRUE when both the signal and the detail match
<larsu> it doesn't special case 0 as "any detail", it must be no detail
<larsu> actually now that I write this down, this might be the sane behavior...
<willcooke> https://github.com/jefferyto/gedit-control-your-tabs
<willcooke> \o/
<willcooke> larsu - can you tell me... can I change the colour of the active tab in gedit?>
<larsu> willcooke: likely, let me check. Are you running V?
<willcooke> larsu, nah - too chicken, Trusty
<willcooke> ah, I think I will edit the Cobalt theme, since that's what I like
<larsu> willcooke: you could have tried overriding the css in the inspector then
<willcooke> ZOMG
<willcooke> There's a bleedin "Color (spelt wrong) Scheme Editor"
<willcooke> oh, but I don't think tabs are covered there
<larsu> no...
<larsu> you have to override the gtk theme
<larsu> which is a bit of a pain tbh
<willcooke> ack
<larsu> but doable
<willcooke> How do we go about getting changes in there by default?
<willcooke> Do we have to get the OK from design?
<larsu> this works: '.notebook tab:active { background-color: red; }'
<willcooke> Because, IMHO, having the active tab very nearly the same as an inactive tab is wrong
<larsu> I agree
<willcooke> let's do it then :)
<larsu> red active tabs \o/
<willcooke> I'll clear it with JohnLea
<willcooke> ;)
<larsu> haha
<willcooke> changing the shade to 0.52 works for me
<willcooke> thanks larsu
<larsu> np
<larsu> Laney: this fixes it http://paste.debian.net/plain/133949
<larsu> not sure if we shouldn't change g_signal_has_handler_pending() instead, though
<larsu> this is actually a problem in a few other places as well (application, gsimpleaction)
<larsu> look at this, all desrt code! :P
<Laney> why's it a problem there too?
<Laney> or you mean your fix fixes the same issue elsewhere
<larsu> because it checks there for subscribed handlers with a 0 detail, too
<larsu> if you are subscribed to a detail, the check will fail
<larsu> the patch I linked to circumvents this by checking both cases, but this only works because we know which key the user is asking for in g_settings_get
<larsu> you can't know that in all cases, and checking _all_ details seems bad
<larsu> so, I think passing 0 as detail to has_handler_pending() should mean "no detail or any detail"
<larsu> not sure if that's too much of an ABI break though
<Sweet5hark1> seb128: did you get my mail about the 4.2.7+/trusty and 4.3.4/utopic updates?
<dholbach> is anyone of you running vivid already? do you have some window management / wrong window having focus issues too?
<larsu> yes, but this has been a problem for a while, no?
<larsu> Trevinho: ^^ ;)
<seb128> Sweet5hark1, hey, yes, I was on vac yesterday, I've that in my backlog
<seb128> dholbach, larsu: unity/compiz didn't change a lot recently afaik, didn't notice any focus issue here
<seb128> in what cases does it happen?
<Trevinho> larsu: mh, what specifically? I'm not in vivid, but I didn't see many WM issues before
<mlankhorst> willcooke: ok last update for me today, had a stupid bug that broke glxgears when using xmir as replacement for xorg, and i made screen blanking work
<mlankhorst> afk a bit
<willcooke> mlankhorst, coolio!
<larsu> seb128, Trevinho: for example, switching workspace to one with only one window doesn't focus that window
<seb128> larsu, wfm, how do you switch workspace? was that one window having focus before you moved out of that workspace?
<Trevinho> mh, there has been a community contribution about that
<larsu> seb128: yes, it was. in fact, seems that refocussing the last focussed window on a workspace doesn't work reliably
<larsu> seb128: it's one of those things that works 80% of the time
<seb128> never saw that issue
<larsu> the remaining 20% I type gibberish into a wrong window ;)
<seb128> I bet it's more complex than that
<seb128> like you might have wins overlapping on 2 workspaces or something
<seb128> the tricky part is to determine was in different in the case where it gets it wrong
<willcooke> seb128, in System Settings -> Security & Privacy -> Diagnostics
<willcooke> there is an option "Send occasional system information to Canonical"
<willcooke> "This includes things like how many programs are running, how much disk space the computer has........"
<seb128> willcooke, phone or desktop?
<willcooke> seb128, dednick
<willcooke> oops sorry dednick ignore
<willcooke> seb128, desktop
<willcooke> Do you know what that is?  What runs?  What info it collects?
<willcooke> Can't find anything of Google
<willcooke> *on
<seb128> willcooke, it's whoopsie
<willcooke> seb128, thanks!
<willcooke> seb128, so what is "Send error reports...." is that apport?
<seb128> willcooke, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ErrorTracker
<seb128> willcooke, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ErrorTracker#Invitation_for_metrics_collection
<Laney> is that dialog implemented?
<seb128> not that I know
<willcooke> no, dont think so
<willcooke> just a tick box
<seb128> but under the dialog there is the bit about the control center
<Laney> ya
<desrt> larsu: hello!
<Laney> I don't know what metrics whoopsie gathers either
<larsu> desrt: so ... maybe we should make g_signal_has_pending_handlers() do the right thing when passing 0?
<Laney> willcooke: ev would be one to ask
<desrt> larsu: i was thinking about that
<desrt> larsu: or at least document it more explicitly
<larsu> as in, return TRUE if detailed signals are connected
<willcooke> seb128, yeah, that bit of text is pretty vague
<willcooke> thx seb128, Laney
<seb128> willcooke, Laney, I'm not even sure metrics are implemented/what they are, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/whoopsie-daisy/0.1.10
<desrt> larsu: but truth be told the existing behaviour is logical and consistent
<desrt> even if not expected
<larsu> desrt: not sure how much of an ABI break that would be...
<seb128> willcooke, Laney, that has "  * Remove the metrics preferences, since this does not exist."
<seb128> willcooke, can you ask on #ubuntu-devel to ev and bdmurray? or want me to do that?
<desrt> larsu: it answers the question "if i emitted a signal wuth these ... uh... details.... would it be handled?"
<willcooke> seb128, s'scool - StephaneVerdy wants to know, so I can put him in touch with ev
<seb128> willcooke, well I'm interested by the reply, so asking on #ubuntu-devel would be useful
<larsu> desrt: right. The problem is that we might want to check for connected handlers when we don't know the detail
<willcooke> seb128, kk
<larsu> desrt: it works great in the gsettings case, as we do it on a _get(
<desrt> larsu: i'd suggest another function for this purpose
<seb128> willcooke, it might be that there is no backend behind this control, in which case we should remove it from the UI
<seb128> willcooke, and if there is a backend I would still like to know what's the difference between the metrics and the reports
<willcooke> seb128, +1
<desrt> larsu: i think the behaviour of the existing one does make a good deal of sense -- but we could use a clarifying sentence in the docs
<larsu> desrt: ya, proabably better. Then we also don't break anyone
<desrt> i'm also not into changing an API in an API-stable library just because the maintainer of that library made a mistake when using it once
<willcooke> seb128, waiting for stephane to join #u-d
<larsu> desrt: right. Want me to add that function or should we wait until we have a use case?
<desrt> let's wait
<desrt> i'll add a clarification to the docs
<larsu> desrt: ok. thanks for the review
<larsu> desrt: reverted?
<desrt> how did you find the bug, btw?
<desrt> larsu: ya... we're going to fix this the 'proper' way, remember?
<larsu> desrt: ah, right.
<desrt> once someone reviews my signal connection notify patches.....
<larsu> desrt: vfuncs on gobjectclass?
<desrt> ya
<larsu> nice!
<desrt> which i already start to think are slightly odd
<larsu> desrt: Laney found it
<desrt> since you can connect signals on non-gobjects
<desrt> but whatever
<Saviq> anyone else's settings daemon crashing in a loop?
<Laney> upgrade
<larsu> desrt: like people do that
<seb128> Saviq, yes, was fixed this morning
<Saviq> seb128, ah, was just about to try and upgrade
<seb128> :-)
<larsu> Laney: do you need this fix pushed on something other than master?
<Laney> no
<Saviq> it's a bit difficult to focus when stuff's jumping around on me ;)
<Laney> can't upload again until ppc64el is fixed, though :)
<seb128> yeah...
<Laney> morning desrt!
<didrocks> at least, we know who is using vivid and who is not ;)
<larsu> Laney: okay, pushed to master. Thanks for pointing it out!
<desrt> larsu: just feels a bit inconsistent
<Laney> thanks for fixing
<Saviq> ok let's hope this was the last crash then
<seb128> yeah
 * Saviq wonders why `restart unity7` results in all windows killed when unity restarts, as opposed to `pkill compiz`
<desrt> the entire way gsignal works is 'bolted on the side' so it sort of feels like this ought to be as well
<larsu> desrt: fair enough, but let's be practical about this...
<desrt> ie: some sort of g_signal_set_notify_callback()
<larsu> hm
<larsu> now you have me thinking..
<desrt> ya.... :)
<seb128> Saviq, unity8 question for you, is that know that if you are on crappy 2g and images fail to load in e.g the appstore, and you  switch to wifi and refresh they don't try loading anymore/keep the "x" symbol instead?
<larsu> makes sense API wise as well, since everything signals is g_signal_*
<seb128> Saviq, even forcing a refresh with pulling down didn't make them load, had to reboot
<Saviq> seb128, bug #1357321
<ubot5> bug 1357321 in qtbase-opensource-src (Ubuntu RTM) "QNetworkAccessManager doesn't support roaming on Ubuntu" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1357321
<desrt> and it would allow installing such handlers for interfaces and creating some mechanism within the interface for handling it
<desrt> the fact that interfaces aren't gobjects concerns me wrt. this
<seb128> Saviq, are you sure it's the same issue? the title is misleading, mine would be "doesn't try to reload after switching to wifi"
<Saviq> seb128, that's the title it had before
<desrt> anyway... i'm still in gvariant land
<larsu> desrt: this might turn into a yak. Beware.
<seb128> Saviq, ok, fair enough, thanks ;-)
<Saviq> seb128, we've a fix incoming
<desrt> larsu: i don't think so.  the patch is already written and changing it to use a function rather than a vtable would be semi-trivial
<seb128> Saviq, when are ota fixes starting to land? ;-)
 * desrt made good progress on gvariant serialisation yesterday -- moved from 2nd rewrite to 3rd rewrite
<Saviq> seb128, whenever ota opens, didn't get the memo yet
<desrt> i really think this is the one this time!
<Saviq> seb128, but I imagine next week
<seb128> k
<seb128> Saviq, btw since you are around, do you know what are the plan for landing desktop mode/wm in unity8? is that going part of regular landings in trunk? or in a branch? is that a different codepath than the phone mode and likely to not create bugs on the phone?
<seb128> willcooke, ^ not sure if you figured out those details yet?
<Saviq> seb128, we'll land it
<Saviq> seb128, will be a gsetting
<Saviq> seb128, we'll land it in vivid for sure, next week maybe, even
<willcooke> \o/
<willcooke> attente_, WM lannding in U8 next week (maybe) ^
<seb128> Saviq, great, then work is going to land regularly in trunk? the reason I asked is that we wondered if we should try to pull unity8 from a branch for the desktop-next image or if trunk is good enough
<seb128> branch/ppa
<Saviq> seb128, we're working on trunk as usual
<Saviq> seb128, cherry-picking to rtm
<seb128> great
<didrocks> my first systemd patches in ubuntu thanks to pitti for uploading ;)
<seb128> didrocks, not true, you already had one for ifup0 issue ;-)
<didrocks> seb128: oh, forgot about it
<didrocks> seb128: ok, well, my first *exciting* patch
<seb128> didrocks, congrats in any case!
<didrocks> better? :p
<didrocks> heh, thanks
<seb128> :-)
<seb128> it's a bit difficult to read the systemd uploads changes
<seb128> they always start by the same big summary of "sync with Debian, here is the remaining changes"
<didrocks> yeah, I guess it's the way pitti is doing it as he's always merging back
<mlankhorst> join us and maintain it in git :P
<seb128> ?
<seb128> it's maintained in git afaik
<seb128> what do you mean
<mlankhorst> ah, not in bzr?
<didrocks> not, it's a git branch joined with debian
<mlankhorst> ah k
<didrocks> which is a little bit annoying as I have upload rights in ubuntu but not commit access there
<didrocks> so, I have to git-format patch and find a slave to commit it for me :)
<didrocks> (delaying this a little bit)
<mlankhorst> hah
<Laney> desrt: did you get to look into the ppc64el issue?
<Laney> it might be an idea to remove
<Laney> stuff is backing up behind it
<desrt> ah.  i didn't know it was high priority.
<desrt> i've been trying to stay focused on the gvariant work
<desrt> can you help me with the correct magic things to type into schroot?
<Laney> ah, sorry, communication fail
<desrt> nah... i should have taken the hint when cjwatson mentioned that he wanted it fixed too
<Laney> screen schroot -c vivid-ppc64el
<desrt> nice
<Laney> sudo apt-get install should work
<desrt> 'screen' to prevent a disconnect from blowing away my world?
<Laney> it won't really, this is a persistent environment
<Laney> and shared actually, so should have the build-deps I installed the other day already
<desrt> handy
<desrt> am i behind some sort of firewall that blocks outgoing connections?
<seb128> desrt, you might need to define http_proxy
<Laney> yeah, not sure what the proxy situation is there
<Laney> you can get to the archive though to get glib from there
<Laney> or just copy it from my homedir
<desrt> Laney: i uploaded it with scp :)
<Laney> true hacker
<desrt> (was just in a meeting.... starting to look into it now)
<desrt> Laney: this is one of those bugs where adding some printf changes the behaviour....
<Laney> it is really very sensitive
<Laney> like --tap fails but no --tap passes
<desrt> so somehow the sorted list of poll fds managed to get itself unsorted
<desrt> which caused the merging algorithm to fail
<desrt> found the bug
<desrt>       if (nextrec->fd > fd)
<desrt> tries to make a sorted list ordered by fd
<desrt> instead, makes a sorted list ordered by pointer address of the 'fd' struct
<desrt> should read if (nextrec->fd->fd > fd->fd)
<desrt> yay for tests finding real bugs
<desrt> Laney: please vendor pick https://bug11059.bugzilla-attachments.gnome.org/attachment.cgi?id=291741
<Laney> thanks
<Laney> make is giving me shit so I'll happily change context :)
<desrt> sorry for taking so long to finally get to that
<desrt> and thanks for the extra poke :)
<Laney> no bother
 * Laney notes down "continue fighting with make" for after vac
<desrt> going away somewhere?
<Laney> nein, moving house
<desrt> doesn't sound like much of a vacation :)
<Laney> hopefully the actual moving is over quickly
<Laney> then I can have a "staycation"
<desrt> i like those :)
 * willcooke -> EOD.
<willcooke> Happy weekend all
<desrt> willcooke: cheers
<mlankhorst> its fridaay
<kenvandine> mlankhorst, indeed... it is
<kenvandine> :-D
<Laney> okay I uploaded glib to debian, if someone sees that it's available to sync please (test build +) sync it
<Laney> otherwise I'll pop on at some point and do it
 * Laney â moving house, ttyl!
<desrt> attente_: thanks for convincing me to rewrite this stuff a 3rd time
<desrt> the new code is _so_ clean
<attente_> desrt: pretty sure i just sat there while you convinced yourself of that...
 * desrt wishes it was possible to have an array of functions in C
<sarnold> array of function pointers?
<desrt> no.  an array of functions.
<sarnold> C won't let you have that :)
<desrt> indeed
<sarnold> but an array of function pointers, sure...
 * desrt wants to do a computed jump using multiplication, not a lookup
 * desrt wonders why gcc starts a function with
<desrt>    0:	89 f6                	mov    %esi,%esi
<desrt> ah.. TIL.
<desrt> this masks out the high bits of the 64bit register (ie: only sets the low bits)
<desrt> TIL also: there is a cost to using 'int' instead of 'long'
<desrt> x86 is nice
<desrt> each function in my 'array' is now a single instruction plus 'ret' and the function that does some pointer path and decides which of them to call is 4 instructions plus a computed tailcall
<larsu> desrt: switch?
<desrt> larsu: in the setup
<desrt> this is the code that writes the offsets from a GVariant container (array for example)
<desrt> when setting up the container there is a switch over the possible offset sizes
<desrt> it stores the function pointer (temporarily) into the space used for the offsets (as a sort of vfunc) and when writing the offsets i call that
<larsu> that sounds rather complicated
<desrt> the result is dispatch code that looks more trivial than a gobject-style vfunc wrapper and the 'actual function' is 1 instruction
 * larsu looks forward to reviewing this, though
<desrt> one of these, depending on the offset size:
<desrt> 0:	88 14 37             	mov    %dl,(%rdi,%rsi,1)
<desrt> 10:	66 89 14 77          	mov    %dx,(%rdi,%rsi,2)
<desrt> 20:	89 14 b7             	mov    %edx,(%rdi,%rsi,4)
<desrt> 30:	48 89 14 f7          	mov    %rdx,(%rdi,%rsi,8)
<desrt> which is why i say that x86 is nice :)
<larsu> heh
<desrt> the computed-array-index thing is nifty
<desrt> these are the functions that i wanted to make an array out of... considering the largest one is 5 bytes in length...
<desrt> the function is smaller than the pointer i would have used to refer to it :)
<sarnold> an array of function pointers would have been .. silly :)
<larsu> :D
 * desrt has the thought that x86 misses an 'eval' instruction :)
<desrt> ie "take the byte value of this 64bit register and evaluate it as if it were an instruction"
 * desrt finishes the 3rd rewrite and is finally happy
#ubuntu-desktop 2014-11-29
<mlankhorst> desrt: well talk about a security nightmare if you had an eval instruction like that :P
<ali1234> can i get some help with ubuntu developer tools center?
<ali1234> i installed it from the ppa (ppa:didrocks/ubuntu-developer-tools-center) and then ran "udtc android"
<ali1234> it has now installed Android Studio - and absolutely nothing else at all. no SDKs. no SDK manager. nothing.
<ali1234> as a result, Android Studio is almost completely non-functional
#ubuntu-desktop 2014-11-30
<zmaj> fewllow ubuntuers,how are you today?
 * Laney spies a pitti retrying tests
<Laney> /socket-listener/threaded/712570:
<Laney> Y U HANG!
#ubuntu-desktop 2015-11-23
<hikiko> Good morning :-)
<pitti> Good morning
<RAOF> Good morning!
<pitti> hey RAOF, how are you?
<RAOF> Butting my head against one of the two hard problems of computer science :)
<RAOF> Other than that, pretty good. How about yourself? :)
<hikiko> Hi pitti RAOF !
<RAOF> Hey hikiko!
<didrocks> good morning hikiko, RAOF
<hikiko> Haha and didrocks!
<pitti> hey hikiko, how are you?
<pitti> Ã§a va didrocks, as-tu eu un bon week-end?
<pitti> RAOF: hah -- is one of them "create a project name"? :-)
<RAOF> pitti: That is a special case of one of them, yes ;)
<RAOF> (The two hard problems of computer science are naming, cache invalidation, and off-by-one errors)
<didrocks> bonjour pitti ! Bon week-end, oui, jouÃ© Ã  des jeux de sociÃ©tÃ©, et toi ?
<didrocks> RAOF: :p
<pitti> didrocks: un week-end calm aussi; on faisait la derniÃ¨re jardinage, et on a jouÃ© au badminton Ã  nouveau
<pitti> didrocks: nous avons la premiÃ¨re neige !
<didrocks> pitti: oh waow, pas encore ici :)
<didrocks> mais mes parents, si
<pitti> ponctuel pour l'ouverture de marchÃ© de NoÃ«l
<didrocks> cool :)
<darkxst> hey didrocks pitti
<didrocks> evening darkxst
<darkxst> anyone able to sponsor bug 1518478 to unbreak Ubuntu GNOME images?
<ubot5> bug 1518478 in casper (Ubuntu) "update paths in scripts to /etc/gdm3" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1518478
<didrocks> darkxst: having a look, will probably patch pilot today/tomorrow anyway
<darkxst> didrocks, thanks, its just trivial fallout from gdm3 rename, and some cleanups
<didrocks> darkxst: yeah, no more 16gdmnopasswd?
<didrocks> how is it configured for the live session then? (just curious)
<darkxst> didrocks, that script has not done anything for ~2 cycles
<darkxst> didrocks, autologin in intially
<darkxst> if you logout, then you get the password prompt re-logging back in
<didrocks> darkxst: how does gdm3 then knows it should do an autologin?
<darkxst> didrocks, autologin is in 15autologin
<didrocks> ah ok ;)
<didrocks> yeah, this was just for relogin
<didrocks> got it
<didrocks> sounds safe and can't impact the rest, sponsoring then
<darkxst> its hard to fix the logout from a non-persistent live session now, not worthwhile
<darkxst> didrocks, thanks
<didrocks> darkxst: I think we still ask for the password for lightdm in that case
<flocculant> morning desktoppy peoples - the update to Gtk Version: 3.18.5 has made things go pop over the weekend :) bug 1518661 for example
<ubot5> bug 1518661 in gtk+3.0 (Ubuntu) "Apps with HeaderBar have margin outside window" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1518661
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<pitti> hey darkxst, how are you?
<darkxst> didrocks, yeh and probably not many bother to log out anyway
<pitti> bonjour seb128, comment vas-tu ?
<darkxst> pitti, good, my leg has mostly recovered, and been good weather, though that won't last!
<didrocks> darkxst: I guess they just reboot if they feel themeselves stuck"
<pitti> darkxst: "good" means "< 35 degrees"? :)
<darkxst> pitti, < 30 for me! tomorrow is going to be 30 and storms, that is bad!
<darkxst> seb128, bug 1518813
<ubot5> bug 1518813 in gnome-control-center (Ubuntu) "sharing panel fails to properly launch required daemons" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1518813
<darkxst> seb128, that is going to cause the reverse problem when gnome-user-share/vino get updated
<seb128> hey pitti didrocks darkxst
<didrocks> re seb128
<darkxst> hey seb128
<seb128> darkxst, yeah, but g-u-s and vino are not being updated :p
<seb128> I looked at updating vino on friday
<seb128> but basically the new version is mostly things dropped we would have to revert + translations updates
<darkxst> seb128, our sharing panel is completely broken atm
<seb128> why?
<seb128> vino didn't change much
<seb128> they just dropped the standalone UI
<seb128> and changed the autostart
<darkxst> seb128, because g-c-c/g-s-d don't use the gsettings keys for autostart
<seb128> is that part the issue?
<darkxst> instead g-s-d manages the services
<seb128> that seems like easy enough to patch
<darkxst> seb128, I am also concerned about having to bluetooth obex proxy's running
<darkxst> one in the old gnome-user-share and one in g-c-c
<darkxst> if we hit a bug in that situation is going to incredibly hard to work out what is causing it
<seb128> can't you just drop GNOME from those autostart .desktop?
<seb128> to not have g-u-s starting under g-s
<darkxst> seb128, we need g-u-s running for the webdav stuff
<seb128> so patch the g-c-c one out?
<darkxst> seb128, no its not equivalent, it has per network sharing options
<darkxst> later g-u-s did split binaries before dumping obex though
<darkxst> maybe can use that
<seb128> we could probably patch g-u-s to have the code in a if(XDG_CURRENT_DESKTOP=...
<seb128> or that
<darkxst> then there is still the autostartcondition, I can override the setting, but if anyone ever opens up the old UI and disables it, it will be broken forever
<seb128> unsure to understand the autostart thing
<andyrock> morning all
<seb128> if they use an UI to disable something they can use it to enable it back no?
<seb128> hey andyrock
<darkxst> more like if they use some obscure UI to disable something, will they remember how to enable it back!
<darkxst> toggling the settings in g-c-c, which is the obvious place, doesnt touch the autostart key
<darkxst> but toggling the setting in g-u-s or vino will change that key
<larsu> good morning all! Happy Monday
<didrocks> Happy Monday larsu!
<larsu> hi didrocks! how are you?
<larsu> had a good weekend?
<didrocks> larsu: good, thanks! rainy week-end, but went to play board games and painting walls to my aunt's :)
<didrocks> and you?
<larsu> good as well thanks - quiet and relaxing
<pitti> hey larsu
<larsu> morgen pitti! wie gehts?
<pitti> larsu: super, danke! Badminton, Sauna, und erster Schnee, prima Wochenende :)
<larsu> :)
<seb128> hey larsu! how are you?
<seb128> pitti, oh, it has been snowing?
<larsu> morning seb128!
<larsu> indeed it has
<pitti> seb128: oui, hier il y avait la premiÃ¨re neige
 * larsu sees some snow out the window
<seb128> nice
<pitti> seb128: ponctuel pour l'ouverture de marchÃ© de NoÃ«l :)
<seb128> hehe
<seb128> j'aime cette pÃ©riode de l'annÃ©e ;-)
<pitti> il fait trop froid maintenant; je prefÃ¨re les saisons chaudes :)
<Trevinho> Ciao!
<pitti> hey Trevinho!
<Trevinho> pitti: hi
<didrocks> hey Trevinho
<seb128> hey Trevinho Laney willcooke
<Laney> morning
<pitti> hey Laney, how are you? nice long weekend?
<willcooke> morning
<willcooke> hey seb128
<pitti> hey willcooke
<didrocks> morning willcooke
<didrocks> and wb Laney!
<Laney> hey pitti
<Laney> got a cold :-(
<pitti> urgh
<Laney> bleh, irssi is misbehaving
<Laney> ah!
<Laney> pitti: before this arrived, the weekend was nice though ;-) cocktails, climbing & family visiting
<Laney> how are you?
<Laney> and you seb128!
<Laney> and didrocks!
<Laney> 156 "Ubuntu" emails
<Laney> these days they are usually from autopkgtest workers ;-)
<seb128> Laney, doing good! went to see simply red on saturday, had lunch with friends yesterday and watched some tennis during the (rainy) w.e
<seb128> today is sunny which is good because I've tennis practice tonight ;-)
<Laney> c-c-c-c-cold today
<seb128> Laney, hope you get over the cold!
<pitti> Laney: I dealt with them, kill them all
<didrocks> Laney: btw, did you get any stacktrace when running in virtual? The generator is supposed to work
<pitti> Laney: partly the usual cloud noise, partly my fault while playing with the workers
<Laney> didrocks: I didn't try yet, there was that paths problem
<didrocks> Laney: (I still think there is something that can be improved, but that shouldn't prevent you for running)
<didrocks> Laney: really? sys.prefix should return the virtualenv ones
<didrocks> (on the line you showed me)
<Laney> well you never came back to me to say it wasn't a problem
<Laney> so I didn't know that
<didrocks> Laney: that's why I'm coming back to you now, to tell it's not a problem :)
<Laney> ok then
<didrocks> (still, there is one function where upstream use first system, then trunk, and another one where they are using trunk, then system, I'll fix it)
<didrocks> I thought you pointed it to me because you found there is an issue
<Laney> when trying to run it before I did
<Laney> but never got far enough on the virtualenv due to the previous problem
<didrocks> ok
<didrocks> Laney: generator.py will have an issue though, upstream forgot "default" (for templating, but that's an issue with globally installed version as well)
<Laney> oh yeah
<didrocks> Laney: waiting for upstream to appear online, but that should be cleaner: https://github.com/ximion/appstream-dep11/pull/2
<larsu> morning Laney! sorry about the cold :(
 * larsu hands Laney some virtual ginger tea with lemon
<Laney> thanks larsu! I feel better already
<Laney> how's it going?
<larsu> Laney: good thanks! Already went to the gym this morning and had a delicious breakfast
<larsu> how was your weekend? I hope not determined by the cold?
<Laney> larsu: it only arrived about 6pm yesterday, so no
<Laney> I hope I didn't pass it to Henry though :(
<larsu> poor henry!
<larsu> all the best to both of you
<Laney> :)
<seb128> larsu, how was your w.e?
<Laney> did you have a good weekend?
<Laney> snap
<seb128> seems like your week start was good :-)
<seb128> hehe
<larsu> yes!
<larsu> weekend was good as well: went to a peruvian restaurant and had really good pisco sour, walked through some parks, listened to a choir, went to the movies, and slept a lot :)
<larsu> oh and went to play table tennis :)
<Laney> \o/
<seb128> sounds like a good w.e indeed ;-)
<willcooke> ?! robert_ancell
<robert_ancell> willcooke, hi
<willcooke> robert_ancell, working late! :)
<robert_ancell> willcooke, yeah, thought I'd catch some UK people while they are awake
<willcooke> wow, nice, thanks!
<willcooke> That reminds me, I need to chase mvo  and cjwatson about the GS mini-sprint
<seb128> hey robert_ancell
<seb128> robert_ancell, saw my email about poppler?
<robert_ancell> seb128, nope
<Laney> "oh would you look at the time /quit"
 * larsu looks at the time and quits
<willcooke> :D
<robert_ancell> seb128, I have them queued up and was just waiting to get it out of NEW
<robert_ancell> seb128, I'm never sure if you have to wait or you can upload them directlly...
<Laney> rebuilds?
<robert_ancell> Either way, since the change is quite small it shouldn't cause any issues
<robert_ancell> Laney, yeah, if I upload inkscape for example, does it build against the popple in the NEW queue or the old one?
<seb128> robert_ancell, right, it just means rebuilding rdepends, including things like libreoffice, and sometime some of those get caught in another transition
<pitti> robert_ancell: only against release+updates+proposed, not the NEW queue
<seb128> robert_ancell, you need to wait for them to be out of queue
<Laney> definitely not the queue
<willcooke> seb128, robert_ancell - just sent you and email since you're both around
<robert_ancell> I thought so
<seb128> willcooke, saw that
<pitti> not only need to wait for out of the queue", but "published into archive.u.c."
<Laney> ftpmaster.internal ;-)
<Laney> rmadison is good enoughâ¢
<robert_ancell> racy!
<robert_ancell> OK, I'll upload them tomorrow.
<seb128> robert_ancell, we just had some quite hairy transitions, like the start of cycle uploades made gnome-desktop/libgtop/poppler/ffmpeg/other things all need to go together, because sometime you have a package that use libraries involved in different transitions
<seb128> robert_ancell, I'm still going to look at the current ongoing tansitions before accepting those binaries
<Laney> someone else might accept it
<Laney> that happened before
<seb128> I can reject it now
<seb128> and move it to accepted later
<seb128> to avoid that :p
<seb128> (poppler upstream are really annoying btw, there are 5 commits between 0.37 and 0.38 and they still find the way to bump the soname)
<robert_ancell> yeah, they love to make new sonames
<robert_ancell> They also didn't remove any symbols
<robert_ancell> Actually, we don't track symbols on the main lib - was there a reason for that?
<seb128> not that I know
<seb128> is the soname change justified?
<robert_ancell> I was going to add that.
<robert_ancell> Probably not
<seb128> maybe we should just revert that
<robert_ancell> We should not modify upstream sonames...
<seb128> I'm tired of those transitions costing us days or work
<seb128> so maybe we should just skip that update
<seb128> I don't see anything worth the work
<robert_ancell> We could patch all the changes into our current version. I'd just bring it in, surely everything will get rebuilt by the end of the cycle anyway.
<robert_ancell> mvo, do you know why reviews.ubuntu.com provides both a ratings average and a histogram? The average can always be derived from the histogram right?
<mvo> robert_ancell: look at the code in software center, its not using an average but instead something more elaborate, let me find the relevant lines
<robert_ancell> mvo, yeah, I'm just wondering why the server provides redundant fields - is that because the histogram was added later or is it for simple clients that just want an average without doing the calculation themself?
<mvo> robert_ancell: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntuone-control-tower/software-center/trunk/view/head:/softwarecenter/utils.py#L681 the wilson_score stuff - aha, I think the wilson score was added later
<mvo> robert_ancell: or maybe the web part was using the average instead
<mvo> robert_ancell: calac_dr() is what you want
<robert_ancell> mvo, yeah, so I can just ignore the average field, store the histogram and calculate the score myself.
<mvo> robert_ancell: yeah, I think thats the way to go. actually I wonder why the servier is not just doing that instead
<robert_ancell> mvo, probably backwards compatibility
<robert_ancell> it is json after all
<dholbach> hiya
<dholbach> can somebody take a look at https://code.launchpad.net/~fourdollars/unity-settings-daemon/fix-lowest-brightness/+merge/278108 maybe?
<tkamppeter> Any font exper/maintainer around? Please have a look at this: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1284215 We should check whether Ubuntu is also affected.
<ubot5> bugzilla.redhat.com bug 1284215 in myanmar3-unicode-fonts "Possible copyright violation with the Myanmar3 unicode font" [Unspecified,New]
<willcooke> andyrock, is this related to your other "mem. leak" issue?  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/987060
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 987060 in Unity HUD "massive memory leak in unity-panel-service and hud-service when invoking the hud on Firefox profiles with large amounts of bookmarks LTS 12.04 14.04" [Critical,Confirmed]
<andyrock> yup
<andyrock> that was the bug
<willcooke> ahh
<willcooke> I'll assign it to you then :)
<willcooke> tkamppeter, can you ping sladen - he might know
<andyrock> but seems like it's not a leak
<willcooke> seb128, can you have a look at dholbach message up there ^^ seems like an important fix
<willcooke> andyrock, yeah I remember now.  Just doing some triage of the X list so I will tidy that one up by assigning to you :)
<seb128> willcooke, I can but I think pitti and Laney reviewed/acked the xenial version so maybe it's easier if they review the SRU as well?
<willcooke> oh, cool, thanks seb128
<seb128> np
<Laney> not me
<Laney> blerhghgGHGHGHGH
 * Laney goes for some honey and lemon
 * didrocks hugs Laney (with care)
<willcooke> burn your clothes didrocks
 * didrocks puts everything in the incinerator
<Laney> :)
<tkamppeter> willcooke, thanks.
<tkamppeter> willcooke, have you seen my mail concerning the libopenjpeg MIR?
<willcooke> tkamppeter, seen but not read yet
<willcooke> one sec...
<willcooke> tkamppeter, ack - will chase.
<tkamppeter> willcooke, thanks.
<seb128> willcooke, tkamppeter, what about openjpeg?
<willcooke> seb128, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/openjpeg/+bug/711061
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 711061 in openjpeg (Ubuntu) "[MIR] openjpeg" [High,Confirmed]
<willcooke> just reading the comments now...
<seb128> tkamppeter, willcooke, I don't think poppler has an embedded version of openjpeg
<seb128> we just have our poppler without support for that format
<tkamppeter> seb128, and that makes it really important that openjpeg makes it into main.
<seb128> tkamppeter,  is that format that important?
<tkamppeter> seb128, it seems that Poppler hat something else embedded formerly but they dropped it.
<seb128> we don't get too many complain about it missing
<seb128> and if the security team states there are issues with the library...
<tkamppeter> seb128, PDFs can have images embedded using this format. Images which are files on their own, like photos from cameras are never JPEG2000, but in case of cameras usually JPEG.
<Laney> the comment robert_ancell made says that there was some internal decoder
<Laney> so I doubt it was an actual copy of this lib
<Laney> was/is -> deprecated
<seb128> tkamppeter, right, I'm just saying that that format is not the most commonly used, would still be good to support but if the only libraries to enable it are poor maintained and have security issues we might be better off not having the support than exposing users to security issues
<tkamppeter> seb128, it seems that maintenance of openjpeg has improved and now it has to be investigated whether it got acceptable.
<seb128> tkamppeter, right, let's see then
<willcooke> tkamppeter, I think you need state that openjpeg maint. has improved in the comments on that bug
<seb128> if that's true
<seb128> you might want fact to backup that statement
<seb128> because from reading the comment it seems it is maintained but not very actively and that is true for a while
<tkamppeter> willcooke, this was already stated in the comments.
<seb128> Laney, larsu, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gtk+3.0/+bug/1518661 seems created by the bg-color change
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1518661 in gtk+3.0 (Ubuntu) "Apps with HeaderBar have margin outside window" [Low,Triaged]
<tkamppeter> Debian seems to have accepted it as their Ghostscript uses the external libopenjpeg and not the embedded "secured by Artifex" version.
<seb128> tkamppeter, Debian doesn't have the MIR concept
<seb128> they support all their packages the same
<pitti> or more precisely, their "main" is our "main+universe"
<larsu> seb128: is this only on compiz?
<seb128> larsu, no, cf upstream bug
<larsu> seb128: how can this come from our patch then?
<seb128> larsu, I don't understand
<larsu> ah, it is our patch
<larsu> so not an upstream issue at all
<seb128> right
<seb128> I just say to look at the bugzilla comments for details
<seb128> not that it was an upstream issue
<larsu> right, got it now :)
<seb128> larsu, btw no need to context change too much, if you are still on the nautilus menu maybe get that done first and then look at gtk
<larsu> seb128: ok
<larsu> (was distracted by that weird font bug anyway)
<desrt> hello co-workers
<larsu> morning desrt
<larsu> what's up?
<desrt> sitting on the couch drinking coffee
<larsu> sounds good
 * larsu sits in a chair and drinks coffee
<desrt> watching xclaesse work on one of my projects
<desrt> it's a good morning :)
<larsu> :)
<desrt> played _so much_ ingress this weekend.  i'm pretty far ahead of schedule on my levelling plan
<desrt> got a week pass for the TTC.  been visiting all kinds of cool places that i've never been before because of the high portal density
<didrocks> good morning desrt
<desrt> (and high portal density tends to correspond to interesting places in general, so win)
<willcooke> nice!
<desrt> it's getting cold and windy, but i got some nice touch gloves :)
<larsu> desrt: appservice, eh? Is that the confinement thing?
<seb128> hey desrt
<desrt> yup
<desrt> turns out collabora also wants to confine dconf :)
<desrt> ...and using apparmor, no less
<larsu> whoo
<seb128> nice!
<desrt> too bad they don't know any kernel hackers who could help :p
<desrt> seb128, larsu, willcooke: good morning, btw :)
<larsu> morning
 * didrocks feels left alone :p
<desrt> eep!
<desrt> good morning didrocks.  sorry :)
 * didrocks feels better now! :)
<desrt> didrocks: i forgot you existed after you stopped fighting for our team!
<desrt> ;)
<didrocks> rohhhhhhhhh
<didrocks> I was protecting you even before you knew that was a thing!
 * didrocks removes is cape
<desrt> lol
<larsu> hehe
<desrt> making sure i lived in a nice clean sea of blue, free from encroachment of any slime
<didrocks> :)
 * desrt plays another new alternate reality game with a cool-sounding name
<desrt> maybe you heard of it.  it's a real mind-bender
<desrt> it's called....
<desrt> " inotify "
<larsu> i, notify
<desrt> there's these things littered around the filesystem called inodes
<desrt> and 'events' are entering our world, through these "inodes"
<desrt> and you have to capture them
<desrt> but it's almost impossible to capture all of the events that you want without also getting a lot of useless ones
<desrt> very fun game!
<larsu> desrt: I thought you had it all figured out
<desrt> i do
<desrt> but it's pretty wildly complicated :)
<larsu> ya... no shit
<desrt> it involves quite a few abstractions
 * larsu still thinks this isn't a problem worth solving
<desrt> i do.  the state of things before was very bad
<desrt> the state of things now is still quite bad
<desrt> and it's starting to look more and more like we will never have anything better from the kernel
<desrt> which is sort of what we were waiting for
<desrt> so we may as well stop using stop-gaps
<larsu> what could the kernel do better without growing all this complex logic itself?
<larsu> watching abitrary paths is close to impossible
<desrt> basically, fanotify without the stupid restrictions
<desrt> reporting to a userspace daemon
<desrt> based on that we could build something very close to what macos has
<larsu> what does that do differently from inotify?
<larsu> sounds the same from a quick look
<larsu> minus a lot of event tupes
<larsu> *types
<desrt> it means that user processes don't have to go through the insane hassle of spidering the filesystem adding watches to all of the paths
<desrt> anyway... i don't expect that this will happen any time soon
<desrt> so i'm going to stop dreaming about it and go back to dealing with what we have today
<willcooke> seb128, Trevinho (anyone who cares) - I've finished my triage of our rls-x-incoming bugs.  Things which I think should certainly be worked on I have targeted and removed the tag.  Everything else in that list (for us) is either a) I don't care b) I don't know.  Can you guys and anyone else parse that list and then we can have a quick joint session to deal with the remaining ones?
<willcooke> link:  http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-x-incoming-bug-tasks.html
<seb128> willcooke, sure, just set up something on the calendar?
<Trevinho> yeah, fine
<willcooke> seb128, Trevinho - let me know when you're done and I'll set something up.  It's taken me a week longer than I thought it would - so I don't want to tie you to an unreasonable date
<Trevinho> Mh, ok...
<Trevinho> andyrock: too ^
<lifeless> desrt: all hai 'solutions'
<qengho> Good morning.
<willcooke> hey qengho
<qengho> seb128: I have a proposal for merged xdg-utils from Debian. https://launchpad.net/~cmiller/+archive/ubuntu/proposed/+packages
<qengho> willcooke: 'sup.
<larsu> morning qu
<larsu> *qengho ;)
<seb128> qengho, hey, great, maybe attach the debdiff to one of the bugs it fixes and subscribe ubuntu-sponsors?
<seb128> qengho, I'm going to try a look later if nobody else picks it up before
<seb128> hey qengho btw :-)
<qengho> seb128: merci.
<pitti> seb128: oh, j'ai perdu Ã  te dire: xenial a des nouveaux paquets de langue depuis ce matin
<seb128> pitti, j'ai vu, merci ;-)
<seb128> pitti, et "perdu" -> "oubliÃ©"
<seb128> perdu = lost
<pitti> seb128: ah, merci
<seb128> de rien !
 * didrocks waves good evening and good night
<seb128> didrocks, night!
<didrocks> enjoy your tennis seb128 :)
<seb128> brb session restart
<larsu> desrt: ugh! https://git.gnome.org/browse/glib/tree/gio/gapplication.c#n1204
<desrt> what?
<larsu> I had to dig into glib source to find out why this is crashing
<desrt> i don't think this was ever allowed
<larsu> where does it say it isn't? People do this all the time
<desrt> i wrote a blog post about it once :)
<larsu> right.....
<desrt> but basically, it can be logically determined to be problematic if you think about it
<larsu> I know this
<larsu> but don't always think about it (like just now)
<larsu> and there's no way to figure this out but read the source
<larsu> and by the way, this code doesn't assert on any other properties
<desrt> ya
<larsu> nor does any constructed anywhere else
<desrt> i'm trying to remember if there was a specific reason that this property was problematic
<desrt> probably because of the way its default value is picked
<desrt> i guess we could tweak that
<desrt> i mean, in fact, this assert is there to prevent a leak
<desrt> if you just removed this assert and did nothing else, your code would not behave how you expected and also, it would leak
<desrt> so simply removing the assert is out of the question
<desrt> we may do something more intelligent, however
<desrt> 1) we could turn the assert into a free.  this is an awful choice.
<desrt> 2) we could turn the assert into a g_error() with an explanation
<desrt> 3) we could turn the assert into an if statement preventing the calculation of the resource path if a non-NULL one was already specified
<desrt> i guess you probably want 3?
<larsu> dunno
<larsu> I don't care really
<larsu> 2 would be fine as well
<desrt> are you making an app with dynamic app id?
<larsu> no, patching nautilus
<larsu> could do it "right", but master is already doing that and I want a minimally invasive patch
<larsu> because we don't use master
<larsu> and I don't want to rename all the resources
<desrt> isn't the base resource path specified with a single switch to the resource compiler?
<desrt> or are you concerned about the other locations that use the resources?
<larsu> ya
<desrt> fair enough
<desrt> fwiw, in this case, i think we could do 3
<larsu> it's just a matter of /org/gnome/nautilus vs /org/gnome/Nautilus
<desrt> lol
<larsu> ya, srsly
<larsu> welcome to my life
<desrt> send in a patch for g_str_casehash and g_str_caseequal
<larsu> haha no
<larsu> that's be so wrong
<desrt> and modify gresource
<larsu> meh
<Trevinho> 'night...
<desrt> "You can disable automatic resource loading functionality by setting the path to NULL."
<desrt> this is why
<desrt> NULL doesn't mean "to be decided in the future".  it means "nothing, please"
<larsu> indeed
<desrt> so if we permit setting this value before construction then we get ourselves into the trouble of having to ignore NULL
<desrt> ie: best to always force the user to call g_application_set_resource_base_path() after new() and before run()
<larsu> I put it into the g_object_new() call now
<desrt> so ya... i guess the best patch is one changing the assert to a g_error() pointing the user at g_application_set_resource_base_path()
<larsu> this is what I used...
<larsu> in init()
<desrt> ya.  you're not allowed to do that :)
<larsu> I think the right patch is to deprcate init() :P
<desrt> ya... no kidding
<desrt> gotta love our 8-pass construction system
<larsu> sigh
<desrt> "let's make a type system that inits everything but is completely oblivious to properties... we'll add a separate layer later that deals with the properties after the fact.... what could go wrong?"
<Laney> darkxst: reckon you could merge g-o-a?
<Laney> now gvfs requires the new one ;-)
<Laney> maybe can revert back to webkit1?
<Laney> or webkit2 2.4
<willcooke> g'night all
<Laney> darkxst: ok, I monkeyed up a revert, check out ppa:ubuntu-desktop/ppa
<Laney> (assuming mixed linkage isn't going to be a problem, hope not)
<darkxst> Laney, I suppose that might work
<xnox> Laney, are you going to merge virt manager?
#ubuntu-desktop 2015-11-24
<qengho> Zzzz
<pitti> Good morning
<hikiko> good morning!
<hikiko> hi pitti :)
<pitti> hey hikiko!
<hikiko> how are you :)
<pitti> quite well, thanks! how about yourself?
<darkxst> hey pitti hikiko
<hikiko> good :)
<hikiko> hi darkxst
<pitti> hey darkxst, how is it going?
<darkxst> pitti, annoyed, every window has massive borders with new gtk+ update
<darkxst> seems larsu caused it
<darkxst> atleast he reverted a commit, that caused it
<didrocks> good morning
<pitti> bonjour didrocks !
<didrocks> bonjour pitti, Ã§a va ?
<pitti> didrocks: Ã§a va bien, merci ! et toi ?
<hikiko> good morning didrocks :)
<darkxst> hey didrocks
<didrocks> hey hikiko, darkxst!
<didrocks> pitti: Ã§a va aussi, mais il fait froid !
<pitti> en effet !
<pitti> "Winter is coming."
<didrocks> hÃ©hÃ© :-)
<darkxst> summer is here ;(
<pitti> I don't think that's a thing in GoT
<darkxst> right, it would change the story line just a little ;)
<darkxst> the wall would melt for one!
<pitti> well, not that much. Instead of freezing to death they'd just boil in their armors
<pitti> and they could have built the wall out of coconuts
<darkxst> pitti, they wouldnt need a wall, it would end up an ocean and all the baddies would drown!
<pitti> right after all the goodies :)
<darkxst> depends if they can get their boats in, in time
<darkxst> Laney, I tested your g-o-a webkit1 revert with g-c-c seems to work fine
<darkxst> Laney, though I do wonder, can't we drop the ancient webkit2gtk build from webkitgtk source and add webkit2gtk to main? thats gotta be better than the current situation, and the transition from webkit2gtk-3.0 to -4.0 should be easy
<seb128> good morning desktopers!
<pitti> bonjour seb128 !
<didrocks> re seb128
<seb128> hey pitti, didrocks
<seb128> wie gehts?
<pitti> prima, danke! und Dir?
<seb128> gut, danke ;-)
<seb128> (sorry didn't see the reply before)
<darkxst> seb128, Laney, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/webkitgtk/+bug/1469221/comments/10
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1469221 in software-center (Ubuntu) "Move to webkit2gtk in main" [Undecided,In progress]
<seb128> darkxst, that would mean have webkitgtk webkit2gtk in main?
<darkxst> seb128, but right now you have webkitgtk and also ancient webkit2gtk in main
<seb128> ancient webkit2gtk?
<darkxst> they are more or less independant builds in the old source package
<seb128> k
<seb128> well it's a case to argue with the security team
<seb128> I've little say in that
<darkxst> you will end up with 2 copies of webkit2gtk source in main
<seb128> right
<darkxst> but only one that builds
<seb128> is anything currently using the -3.0 version?
<darkxst> seb128, yes, but pretty much everything GNOME upstream supports -4.0
<darkxst> also
<darkxst> and 3.0 -4.0 is nothing like the hell of going webkit1 to 2
<seb128> the question was rather "if we disable the 3.0 build without promoting webkit2gtk can we get no copy in main"?
<darkxst> seb128, no, I think yelp and devhelp are in main?
<darkxst> g-o-a
<seb128> k
<seb128> well seems like a case to argue with the security team
<seb128> maybe comment on the open MIR about that?
<Trevinho> Morning...
 * Trevinho has to leave for some blood tests
<seb128> hey Trevinho
<seb128> Trevinho, oh, nothing serious I hope! good luck
<darkxst> seb128, like my other old bug, I couldnt find it!
<darkxst> but I will find it and comment there as well
<seb128> thanks
<didrocks> good morning Trevinho!
<larsu> bonjour!
<didrocks> hey larsu
<larsu> hi didrocks :)
<darkxst> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-online-accounts/+bug/1466290/comments/20
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1466290 in gnome-online-accounts (Ubuntu) "Update to 3.16" [Medium,New]
<darkxst> commented there also ;)
<seb128> larsu, salut! wie gehts?
<darkxst> larsu, can you guard your gtk+ background revert with XDG_CURRENT_DESKTOP==Unity, you broke just about every other DE with that
<larsu> hey seb128! Great thanks! And you?
<seb128> larsu, I'm good thanks!
<seb128> darkxst, do you know why that same code in 3.16 was not creating those issues?
<seb128> we might just need another revert
<darkxst> seb128, my guess, is larsu didn't just do a clean revert
<darkxst> there was a check againt client-decorated also before
<darkxst> https://git.gnome.org/browse/gtk+/commit/?h=gtk-3-18&id=74f2d9448f24bbfdaf32ae6b328ed3e126700afe
<seb128> we should maybe just add that back?
<larsu> no, this wasn't a revert
<larsu> putting that check back in will make the original bug come back for csd-windows
<larsu> so we might as well remove the whole patch (which I suggest we do for now)
<darkxst> larsu, well you have given us a much worse bug
<larsu> darkxst: for xfce users?
<darkxst> and I don't see how messing with background can fix frame sync issues, other than making them less ugly
<larsu> that was the point
<darkxst> larsu, gnome-shell, unity
<seb128> no
<seb128> unity is much better
<seb128> the bg color change is really annoying and tiring for the eyes
<larsu> darkxst: unity?
<larsu> with adwaita, you mean?
<darkxst> larsu, with adwaita there is a 5px margin
<darkxst> with ubuntu themes there are still square corners on csd windows
<seb128> right, but white ones
<seb128> which is less noticable/ugly
<larsu> darkxst: those square corners were there before, it's a window manager issue
<larsu> darkxst: and don't use adwaita on unity, it's broken
<seb128> the patch is quite an improvement under Unity
<larsu> not saying we shouldn't revert that patch
<darkxst> larsu, adwaita on gnome-shell has 50px margines
<larsu> I know. You said something about unity just now
<seb128> let's not nitpick
<seb128> that patch has issues and they are on the list of things to look at
<larsu> right. Don't know what the fuss is about
<seb128> are xfce, etc implementing the framesync protocol?
<seb128> just wondering if that's another case of GTK doing things that work only under GNOME...
<seb128> though that probably doesn't matter much for the resolution
<larsu> they are most certainly not
<seb128> k, so "fix compiz" is not really a solution to this problem
<seb128> it would just make it work for us but let it buggy for others :-/
<larsu> indeed
<larsu> it was my impression that this was only setting the background of the X window and gets overdrawn quickly by gtk anyway
<larsu> not sure why this isn't happening
<darkxst> larsu, I'm not sure it gets overdrawn, client side decorations are below the X windows
<larsu> darkxst: hm? They're painted on X windows just like everything else...
<darkxst> so the main content will get overdrawn, but what about the transparent areas, that make it easier to catch the edges of windows etc?
<darkxst> although the backgrounds are bigger than even those
<darkxst> but anyway can we just revert the patch for now
<larsu> yes, we should
<seb128> :-(
<seb128> I'm unsure if we should
<seb128> maybe having it under XDG_CURRENT_DESKTOP hack?
<larsu> please no :)
<darkxst> seb128,  that was my first suggestion, but really you havent fixed anything with that patch
<seb128> darkxst, oh yeah we have
<darkxst> yes, you made it less ugly?
<seb128> I can use my computer again without having headaches
<seb128> the constant color change is really tiring on the eyes
<seb128> so yes, less ugly and less physically tiring
<seb128> which is a big win
<darkxst> sure but at a cost
<seb128> right, but it doesn't mean the correct thing to do is to add the initial problem back
<czajkowski> .c
<darkxst> we never even had the flickering problem
<seb128> it started with 3.18
<seb128> which was not in the archive for long before we landed that patch
<darkxst> seb128, we have been running it for months
<seb128> "we"?
<darkxst> on the ppa's
<darkxst> gnome3
<seb128> yeah, unsure how many !GNOME users use those
<seb128> GNOME doesn't have the issue because it implements the full frame sync protocol thing
<seb128> but any wm that doesn't have it
<seb128> and that's most wms out of GNOME
<darkxst> seb128, yes, not many
<darkxst> and yes NVIDIA fixed that actually
<seb128> I'm using intel hwd
<seb128> can't say
<darkxst> seb128, it wasnt a bug in their drivers
<seb128> nvidia fixed what?
<seb128> sorry I'm lost there
<willcooke> didrocks, taaaa daaaa!
<willcooke> morning all
<seb128> hey willcooke!
<didrocks> willcooke: better server? :p
<darkxst> framesync issues in mutter, clutter etc
<seb128> right
<seb128> well, shame they didn't fix it for all the other desktops :p
<darkxst> well the original patch came from compiz?
<darkxst> but the followup patches, don't know
<seb128> yeah, unsure, and there is little point arguing we should stop there
<seb128> bottom line is that the current patch is buggy and we should fix it
<seb128> and stock GTK has issues on !GNOME which is what we tried to address
<larsu> morning willcooke. Welcome to freenode
<willcooke> :)
 * didrocks feels that the "no python2" in deja-dup is some kind of cheating/twisting the reality
<larsu> didrocks: but it runs with 3?
<didrocks> larsu: no
<didrocks> larsu: it just try to not install duplicity
<seb128> didrocks, yeah, it is
<didrocks> which makes deja-dup useless
<didrocks> seb128: how so?
<seb128> didrocks, it's cheating
<didrocks> yeah
<seb128> it means users are still going to get python2
<didrocks> so, it doesn't run in python3
<seb128> oh, sorry
<didrocks> seb128: wellâ¦ what I'm exactly saying :p
<seb128> yeah, I was reply to your "* didrocks feels that the "no python2" in deja-dup is some kind of cheating/twisting the reality"
<didrocks> ah ok ;)
<seb128> right
<didrocks> was puzzled for a sec
<seb128> sorry, I see how the sequence was confusing ;-)
<didrocks> heh, no worry!
<larsu> didrocks: lol
<didrocks> I'll try to describe my feeling on the MP
<didrocks> but yeah, not installing duplicity
<didrocks> so, installing on demand
<didrocks> and having a useless deja-dup installed by default (as it can't do anything)
<didrocks> it sounds to me just to tick a box for ticking it
<didrocks> I would prefer in that case to not install it on the image
<didrocks> or having a real fix, or having deja-dup working with something else than duplicity (so that as a default, it makes sense)
<seb128> what is deja-dup able of doing without duplicity?
<Laney> hey
<didrocks> seb128: AFAIK, nothing, but I may be wrong
<seb128> hey Laney
<didrocks> (so yeah, if I'm wrong on that, I withdraw my whole complaint ^)
<didrocks> complain*
<didrocks> hey Laney
<seb128> didrocks, if it's nothing I think there is a case to argue that it should simply be dropped from the iso
<didrocks> seb128: yep
<seb128> if users need to install something they can as well install a working deja-dup from software-center
<didrocks> well, let's see what mterry will tell on the MP, I'm writing something around those lines
<larsu> g'day Laney
<didrocks> seb128: better for them to install deja-dup directly
<Laney> hey france
<Laney> hey germany
 * larsu misses berlin
<Laney> wait
<seb128> larsu, where are you atm?
<Laney> what???
<larsu> seb128: at home
<larsu> Laney: you ok?
<didrocks> seb128: he claimed independence from Berlin :p
<seb128> didrocks, you can argue that having it pre-installed with the on-demand somewhat advertize there is a recommended backup solution
<larsu> didrocks is the only one that got it
<Laney> larsu: sniffling but okay
<seb128> haha
<didrocks> seb128: agreed, but still feeling it's just about "ticking a box, no more python2, wooooowww", which is a lie in practice (as most of people will get it if we do that in multiple softwares)
<seb128> didrocks, right
<seb128> willcooke, do you have xenial somewhere? if so you would maybe like to have a look to https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-themes/+bug/1515557 ?
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1515557 in ubuntu-themes (Ubuntu) "Sidebars have too little padding" [Medium,Triaged]
<seb128> there is a suggestion there
<didrocks> yep
<seb128> .sidebar-icon {
<seb128>     padding-left: 10px;
<seb128>     padding-right: 10px;
<seb128> that looks like it's the correct thing to do
<willcooke> didrocks - can I still edit the pad for Google? ^^
<willcooke> seb128, happy to take a look, won't take long, but didrocks has prepared a list of quick and easy things for the Google code thing, this would be a good one to add to that
<willcooke> I think
<seb128> well, the suggestion is already in the bug so somebody already contributed
<didrocks> willcooke: I've moved that to a google doc
 * larsu will be back in 15
<seb128> but as you want
<didrocks> willcooke: and I gave it to community team
<willcooke> oki I can fix then
<seb128> let's try to not steal credit for the current contributor though
<didrocks> (as I put the deadline to it)
<didrocks> willcooke: I guess we have enough tasks TBH
<Laney> what are you talking about?
<seb128> Laney, nautilus pading in the sidebar
<Laney> what's that got to do with google code?
<seb128> Laney, otherwise didrocks & willcooke about the google code-in project
<didrocks> Laney: google code in
<seb128> they built a list of easy things to work on
<Laney> oh right
<Laney> "port shotwell to webkit2"? :)
<seb128> lol
<willcooke> :D
<seb128> yeah, welcome to opensource!
<Laney> I actually think that's the only thing that is left to get wk1 off the iso
 * didrocks put Laney as a mentor for that one
<Laney> looked last night
<didrocks> puts*
<Laney> assuming I worked on ubiquity... think I did...
<seb128> software-center as well, but I guess we assume that one is going away?
<Laney> yeah
<Laney> well
<Laney> https://code.launchpad.net/~laney/software-center/webkit2/+merge/264723 too
<Laney> darkxst: if you're happy enough I'll upload this revert, you can argue with security if you want
<darkxst> Laney, g-o-a? I am happy enough with that, hopefully it doesnt backfire though
<Laney> indeed
<Laney> this situation is annoying
<Laney> I would have both webkits in main and be done with it :|
<didrocks> https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/job/udtc-trusty-tests/2349/testReport/ -> ship it! (all passing, even if public jenkins still has issue mirroring!)
<darkxst> it was fine in my testing, and I couldn't find api breakage that would cause hell to fall in
<Laney> cool
<darkxst> admittedly only tested g-c-c, but not sure if anything else would stress webkit stuff more than that
 * seb128 opens datetime calendar and notice didrocks is patch piloting today then decide to let him that evolution patch backport for SRU ;-)
 * Laney loves the patch pilot police
<didrocks> seb128: you add the patch pilot calendar to track people pilot shift? :p
<didrocks> Laney: yeah, it's nice isn't it? :p
<seb128> didrocks, I didn't add anything, I added my canonical account
<seb128> and datetime pick all the calendar
<seb128> I wish I could turn that one off in fact :-/
<didrocks> well, you added it to your canonical account :p
<seb128> right
<seb128> it's sometime handy
 * Laney has it in url bar
<Laney> maybe in main calendar would be useful too ;-)
<Laney> great idea!
<seb128> :-)
<didrocks> anyway, I already planned to shift it to a nice Friday pilot, want to finish some demoing (after this ubuntu make release announcement)
<didrocks> but yeah, will do the SRU as other items in the list :p
<didrocks> (would be cool if we could move the shift ourselves in the calendar)
<seb128> ok, no worry
<seb128> I can try to nag kenvandine instead, he's doing his shift today as well ;-)
<Laney> didrocks: you can
<Laney> I do it all the time
<Laney> most months in fact
<didrocks> Laney: oh really?
<seb128> happyaron, hey, can you look at https://code.launchpad.net/~brunonova/ubuntu/trusty/ibus/lp1240198_2/+merge/278226 ?
 * didrocks tries
<Laney> probably have to be logged in
<seb128> btw is anybody else having all day events showing on the wrong day?
<seb128> in indicator-datetime
<seb128> like if I open today it lists "doko tomorrow 00:00"
<didrocks> Laney: I have mine shifted
<seb128> rather tha ken/didrocks today
<didrocks> let's try to add the patch pilot calendar
<Laney> seb128: indeed
<didrocks> seb128: ah, so it's not indicator-datetime showing up us as piloting today :p
<Laney> but only for gcals it seems
<seb128> didrocks, well I opened it to see who was pilot to nag them about that evolution patch :p
<Laney> I have some birthday calendar from Facebook maybe
<Laney> and those are correct
<seb128> sorry it felt on you today ;-)
<didrocks> ah, moving worked, nice!
<seb128> Laney, facebook has a calendar/eds integration?
<didrocks> seeing there is mostly unactive patch piloter before Friday, I guess it's a good spot
<seb128> didrocks, I often do that when reviewing the recent bugs activity, ping the $pilot_of_the_day
<didrocks> (as dholbach did a lot of work yesterday)
<seb128> yeah
<Laney> I probably added the ical
<seb128> there are a few desktop items in there he didn't touch though
<darkxst> i'm going to break the calendar and do my next pilot shift on the weekend ;)
<seb128> heh
<Laney> we'll just leave all the hard stuff
<Laney> didrocks: ah yes, it comes up as an invitation in my main calendar
<Laney> and from there I can edit it
<didrocks> Laney: btw, did you try latest master from dep11 repo? Not sure if you noticed that my patch was merged
<Laney> didrocks: not yet, you want to pull & build/install?
<Laney> I made it run out of the virtualenv
<Laney> could probably automate updating it
<didrocks> Laney: ok, let me connect
<didrocks> Laney: 5a3a5622c87d0825cd64d50072ed3754700d99ce isn't in master?
 * didrocks was wondering why git pull wanted to merge
<Laney> no, do pull --rebase (sorry, forgot)
<Laney> I didn't propose that yet because not sure it actually fixes anything
<didrocks> Laney: doing that!, got it on the reasoning :)
 * Laney tries to remember what the config is to pull --rebase by default
<didrocks> we'll see if this fixes it for humanity, indeed
<willcooke> urgh.  seb128 - I've messed up that commit, it's got some half fixes from other theme work.
<didrocks> Laney: oh right, we should do that, one sec
<seb128> willcooke, uncommit and try again?
<Laney> branch.name.rebase
<Laney> willcooke: bzr shelve if you need to get some changes out of the way
<Laney> then bzr unshelve to get them back later
<didrocks> you need bzr-rewrite package (plugin) for that IIRC
<Laney> what is that?
<Laney> don't think so
<didrocks> ah, it's probably only for bzr rebase then
<didrocks> can be wrong
<Laney> it's not doing any rewriting
<didrocks> yeah, I still thought it was in the same plugin package though and not by default
<didrocks> Laney: ok, built and installed
<Laney> |O|
<didrocks> letting you or the cronjob (if any) doing the run?
<Laney> watch http://162.213.34.169/logs/2015/11/ at 1000
<didrocks> oki ;)
<Trevinho> seb128: nothing serious... Just routine checkup
<Trevinho> it took longer than expected.. :/
<Laney> hey Trevinho
<Trevinho> hi Laney
<larsu> morning Trevinho!
<Trevinho> larsu: hi
<Laney> what's up?
<Laney> do you feel much lighter now that you have less blood?
<darkxst> vampires?
<seb128> Trevinho, k, glad you are doing well!
<Laney> didrocks: doh ;-)
<didrocks> Laney: yep, probably failed at something :p
<didrocks> Laney: looking, don't worry about it
<Laney> should probably make the rsync for logs happen even if something fails
<Laney> not so useful to only get those if it works :P
<didrocks> Laney: heh, indeed :p
<didrocks> ah, you redirect stdout/stderr, that's why I wasn't seeing everything
 * didrocks looks at logs
<Laney> tail the log file
<Laney> dep11/logs/...
<didrocks> yep, I'm in it
<didrocks> and waiting for it to stop
<didrocks> oh :p
<didrocks> missing import
<Laney> I just made it log straight to the public directory
 * Laney rm -r dep11/logs
<didrocks> Laney: makes sense, removing my -x
<didrocks> Laney: this run should be better
<Trevinho> Laney: ah, sorry I missed your msg :P... Well I did some checkup... Nothing special (I hope :P). They didn't took too much blood to feel lighter... Maybe it would have been better :)
<Laney> heh
<Laney> didrocks: nice
<Laney> doing a PR?
<didrocks> Laney: you mean liek https://github.com/ximion/appstream-dep11/pull/3? :)
<didrocks> like*
<didrocks> would be nice to add to dep11 a minimal set of tests btw
<Laney> sure would!
<didrocks> Laney: hum http://162.213.34.169/logs/2015/11/
<didrocks> Laney: you just move the LOGDIR, right?
<didrocks> and didn't remove a rm I guess? :p
<Laney> oh noes
<Laney> what happened!!!!!
<Laney> bet the rsync deleted it
<didrocks> --delete-after
<didrocks> yep
<Laney> at least the evidence of the import sys is gone :)
<didrocks> heh, phew :p
<willcooke> larsu, is there an equivalent gtk2 version of the gtk3 widget factory?
<larsu> willcooke: yes, gtk-widget-factory
<larsu> I don't know if we install that, though
<larsu> ah, no package :/
<Laney> didrocks: logs should be safe now :p
<willcooke> ah
<willcooke> I'll use Firefox instead ;)
<larsu> ;)
<didrocks> Laney: phew! no more hiding :-)
<didrocks> Laney: more seriously, don't you have too many issues reboostrapping the nodes when canonistack goes down?
<Laney> haven't lost the instance yet
<didrocks> (loosing the logs are not great, ok, but the rest)
<Laney> it just gets shut down
<didrocks> ah, and you have a shared volume?
<didrocks> (persistent disk that you can remount)
<Laney> for the mirror yeah
<didrocks> yeah
<didrocks> so ok, not that bad for now
<Laney> going to write a charm at some point anyway
<didrocks> you will have to :p
<Laney> it would be mildly annoying
<didrocks> to need multiple machines just to create one?
<Laney> nginx config + checkout + virtualenv
<didrocks> or something else?
<Laney> to rebuild if it goes away
<Laney> oh I would have to remember what all the deps are too :P
 * Laney git push git+ssh://git.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop/+git/appstream-cloud
<Laney> charm will end up there
<didrocks> Laney: if you need any help in charming it up, I have some scares still (and so knowledge) of previous attemptâ¦ :p
 * Laney knows nothing
<didrocks> but well, you need to describe the used config on the machine first ;)
<Laney> was planning to copy pitti's charm
<Laney> his is more complex though, don't need any relations here
<pitti> my charm is unique! I don't borrow it to other people
<didrocks> :)
<pitti> Laney: which charm do you want to copy? want some help?
<didrocks> Laney: maybe the ci-train one is easier?
<Laney> pitti: not doing it right now, but thanks!
<Laney> didrocks: maaaaybe
<didrocks> it doesn't have relationships either, pretty single :)
<Laney> I guess you can somehow make it depend on a cinder volume
<Laney> so that it can re-use the mirror if it exists
<larsu> seb128: so the best compromise I can come up with is to set the background to transparent
<larsu> which looks odd in unity, but not as bad as the black one
<larsu> and works in shell
<seb128> larsu, +1 from me
<larsu> I tried other things as well, but those require theme changes
<larsu> and I think we want to stay minimal here
<seb128> that would be better indeed
<larsu> Trevinho: while working on this, I noticed that setting a background of #00000000 had no effect, while doing something like #01000000 works
<larsu> willcooke: nice work on the theming stuff
<seb128> I'm going to do a landing today I think
<seb128> with the theme tweaks from willcooke
<willcooke> The changes I made to notebook tab colours need to be ignored.  I will delete them
<willcooke> they dont work properly yet
<willcooke> didrocks has helped me to better organise my branches now so each fix will have its own branch
 * larsu hugs didrocks 
<darkxst> willcooke, everyone should just move to git branches ;)
<willcooke> didrocks, can I delete this one now?  https://code.launchpad.net/~willcooke/ubuntu-themes/ubuntu-themes
<willcooke> I dont want any of those changes to exist anywhere and confuse me
<didrocks> willcooke: sure, you can :)
 * didrocks hugs larsu back
<willcooke> larsu, are you looking at the treeview selector heights already?
<larsu> seb128, darkxst: please give this a spin if you have some time https://code.launchpad.net/~larsu/gtk/black-flicker-part2/+merge/278432
<larsu> willcooke: no
<larsu> shall I?
<seb128> larsu, sure
<willcooke> larsu, lemme see if I can find how to fix it and I'll let you know
<darkxst> larsu, I'm off to bed now, but setting background transparent does sound harmless,
<larsu> darkxst: setting the background to the background sounds harmless as well :P
<larsu> (which is what the other patch did)
<darkxst> larsu, yes, will test tomorrow
<larsu> thanks
<seb128> willcooke, what bug is that one?
<willcooke> seb128, well, it's getting stranger now... when you open gedit, and click open you get the tree view up instead of a file browser at the start
<willcooke> if you type "t" in that search box you get lots of results
<willcooke> but each entry is about 5px high and you cant read them
<seb128> willcooke, good that I asked, I just fixed that one, https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=758585
<ubot5> Gnome bug 758585 in file loading and saving "Open menu dropdown is 'compressed' & unintelligible with other themes" [Normal,New]
<seb128> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/attachment.cgi?id=316154&action=diff
<seb128> I've a package update building as we speak
<willcooke> haa!
<willcooke> That's how I fixed it as well
<willcooke> :)
<seb128> sorry ;-)
<willcooke> but I found that when I took the padding out from the css, it stayed fixed for the whole session
<seb128> I wonder if we should import some of the other rules in our theme
<willcooke> seb128, no worries :)  it only took me about 5 mins to work out what was going on
<willcooke> yeah, I think that makes sense
<seb128> they don't want to move the rules using e.g @theme_bg_color to the common css because it's not sure the theme define those colors
<willcooke> seb128, whats your view on the "save changes before closing" dialog buttons?  They look all smushed together, but perhaps they are supposed to be?
<Laney> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-themes/+bug/1513856
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1513856 in ubuntu-themes (Ubuntu Xenial) "[3.18] 'save changes' dialog button style is wrong" [Low,Confirmed]
<seb128> laney beat me to that one
<seb128> but yeah, I think it looks buggy
<seb128> unsure what we should do though
<seb128> just theming tweaks?
<seb128> or move back to non joined buttons?
<willcooke> I tried themeing with padding and margins, but it doesn't work
<willcooke> oh
<willcooke> that reminds me
<Laney> yes but they look normal in Adwaita, so maybe we could take some inspiration from them
<willcooke> seb128 - how are you fixed for a trip to London on 10th Dec?  Just head back from John and he is free then
<willcooke> we could ask John Lea questions like this (^) in person
<seb128> willcooke, wfm
<seb128> Laney, "normal", they look different from other dialogs like the fileselector but yeah it's less buggy
<seb128> it's just a question of whether we want things to be similar or not
<Laney> "Linking buttons together can make it move obvious that their function is related"
 * larsu goes to lunch
<seb128> lunch, bbiab
<seb128> larsu, enjoy!
<seb128> Laney, where is that quoted from?
<Laney> gnome wiki
<didrocks> enjoy seb128, larsu
<seb128> thanks
<seb128> Laney, I think they use that style in gtk fileselector etc but we patched it out
<seb128> we should revisit what we do
<Laney> we did for message dialogs
<Laney> not sure where else
<pitti> Laney: argh, lcy01 died again!?
<Laney> pitti: seems so :(
<Laney> https://portal.admin.canonical.com/85642
<Laney> enabled builders 2 hours ago
<Laney> but they are disabled
<pitti> ah, so they are working on it
<pitti> I am doing a manual run, and indeed it's stuck at BUILD/spawning
<Laney> well https://launchpad.net/builders/lcy01-06/+history doesn't show that it was enabled 2h ago
<Laney> so *shrug*
<pitti> Laney: in better news, I now figured out queue inspection in principle
<Laney> cool
<pitti> currently turning it into nice HTML
<Laney> I saw that you added the management plugin
<Laney> this works?
<pitti> Laney: only for the queue length, what's already exposed on http://autopkgtest.ubuntu.com/running.shtml
<pitti> Laney: not the contents -- if you actually use the web UI and inspect the queue, it requeues stuff in a different order
<pitti> so I need to use the normal amqp operations
<Laney> oh right, I thought that this didn't require that plugin
<pitti> so in the end I can probably even drop the management plugin again
<pitti> I found that when reading all requests without acking, and then basic_reject()ing them, the queue order isn't changed
<pitti> so the mgmt plugin does the inspection in a funny
<pitti> ... way
<Laney> "if you declare a queue with NO auto acknowledgements and do not ACK the messages that you receive, then you can see everything in it"
<pitti> right (where do you read that?) -- the trick is to explicitly reject them
<Laney> SO
<Laney> https://stackoverflow.com/questions/4700292/using-rabbitmq-is-there-a-way-to-look-at-the-queue-contents-without-a-dequeue
<pitti> ah, there
<pitti> ah, haven't tried cancel, but I don't want to actually do that for the status queue I'm listening to
<pitti> anyway, in my local container debci/rabbit setup I now see stuff
 * pitti leaves HTML beautification for after lunch
<happyaron> seb128: sure
<Trevinho> seb128: I don't remember one thing... What was the rationale for "inode/directory=nautilus-folder-handler.desktop" ? I mean why do we need a different desktop file for opening dirs?
<Trevinho> Ah, I guess that's for "--new-window" thing...
<seb128> Trevinho, I don't remember the specifics, without that sometime other filemanager would open when clicking on a folder
<seb128> but it might have been in the gnome-panel times
<seb128> like if you had a directory on your panel
<Trevinho> seb128: the thing is that if you now do nautilus -q; and then open it from new device/trash we get that matched to nautilus-folder-handler...
<seb128> Trevinho, is that association creating any issue?
<Trevinho> Because of gio telling that to us
<Trevinho> seb128: however... that desktop file has the "NoDisplay=true" so... maybe I  can filter that out...
<seb128> is there another desktop that would be more suitable?
<seb128> the idea was to assign nautilus
<seb128> rather than getting the xfce file manager
<seb128> but I don't think we picked that particular desktop for a good reason, we could probably change to whatever is right
<seb128> or try to drop the association and see what happens
<Trevinho> seb128: I was thinking to standard desktop file, but... that's something that might not work as per the "--new-window" option
<Trevinho> seb128: basically the bad matching happens because org.gtk.gio.DesktopAppInfo tells us that that desktop has been launched, for that pid... So bamf overrides the matching by using it
<Trevinho> seb128: however, I think that maybe bamf should ignore the nodisplay desktop files for such thing
<Trevinho> we can then use then, if really we don't find anything else that matches
<seb128> your call, you know better that matching logic than me
<seb128> some people pointed we currently have issues with e.g gedit as well
<seb128> since we have compat desktops now
<seb128> like upstream renamed gedit.desktop to org.gnome.gedit.desktop
<Trevinho> yeah... that makes matching harder, but iirc larsu added a way to get the gtk app id atom and using that, isn't it?
<Laney> trouble in the clouds
<Laney> launchpadlibrarian.net is broooooooookenn
<didrocks> storms? :)
<Laney> acid rain
 * Laney remembers about LTE
<Laney> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pmo1VW_wA_o
<mterry> didrocks, I replied to your comments on the deja-dup branch. thanks for looking at it!  I would be interested to see if trunk's tests also fail for you (they did for kenvandine)
<kenvandine> mterry, didrocks: ah ha!  those are the same tests that failed for me!
<willcooke>  #startmeeting Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2015-11-24
<willcooke> #startmeeting Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2015-11-24
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Nov 24 15:30:42 2015 UTC.  The chair is willcooke. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2015-11-24 | Current topic:
<seb128> hey
<didrocks> mterry: let me have a look after the meeting (I only tried the tests in a sbuild), what kenvandine did I guess
<mterry> So kenvandine isn't actually crazy  ;)
<didrocks> hey
<willcooke> Roll call: andyrock, attente, desrt,  dgadomski, didrocks, fjkong, happyaron (out), hikiko (out), laney, larsu, qengho, seb128, sweet5hark, themuso (out), tkamppeter, trevinho, robert_ancell (out)
<andyrock> \o/
<kenvandine> well... maybe i am
<didrocks> mterry: that doesn't imply he isn't :p
 * mterry shuts up
<kenvandine> but the tests really fail :)
<Trevinho> hey
<desrt>  /o\
<dgadomski> hey
<desrt> (body scanner pose)
<willcooke> :D
<hikiko> willcooke, I was about to leave sorry! I emailed you a minute ago I hope you see it!!
<willcooke> hikiko, got it - nw
<hikiko> bye people!!
<willcooke> hikiko,  I can copy & paste
<willcooke> cya hikiko
<larsu> hey
<willcooke> lets get started..
<willcooke> #topic andyrock
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2015-11-24 | Current topic: andyrock
<andyrock> hey all
<andyrock> I'm working on the redrawing/damaging issue with unity+nux+compiz
<andyrock> i discovered that it's not just about the cursor
<andyrock> but that're other cases where we basically redraw randomly
<andyrock> like if you open once the shortcut overlay we redraw the shortcut overlay even if it's hidden
<andyrock> that's a shame
<andyrock> I've already a fix for that (I'll propose it later today)
<andyrock> right now I'm working on the cursor redraw issue and more in general trying to understand what's going on when the dash and the hud are open
<andyrock> we redraw for no reason and that's can cause slowness
<andyrock> and also reviews
<andyrock> \eof
<willcooke> thanks andyrock
<willcooke> andyrock, how are you set for a quick review tomorrow at 10am UTC?
<andyrock> I've class but should not be a problem
<seb128> andyrock, nice to see work on those redraw issue!
<willcooke> andyrock thanks
<willcooke> #topic attente
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2015-11-24 | Current topic: attente
<andyrock> seb128 I can't promise to fix them all but I'll try :D
<attente> hi guys
<attente> debugged/fixed some broken maliit-framework tests
<attente> suppress some unused parameter warnings in gdbus-codegen output, filed upstream
<attente> packaged maliit-framework and maliit-inputcontext-gtk (<- needs sponsoring), fixed up packaging branch which was out-of-date
<attente> want to move QT_IM_MODULE out of livecd-rootfs and into somewhere else, but not really sure where it should go to have it set under u8
<attente> updated java non-latin shortcuts ppa for bug #1226962, might try to merge it despite it not being perfect
<ubot5> bug 1226962 in unity-settings-daemon (Ubuntu) "Hotkeys not functional in non-latin keyboard layout" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1226962
<attente> starting working on gtk single-surface
<attente> (eof)
<willcooke> thanks attente
<willcooke> good comments on that bug, looks great
<willcooke> thanks
<willcooke> #topic desrt
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2015-11-24 | Current topic: desrt
<desrt> hi
<desrt> continue work on inotify stuff, looks pretty good now
<desrt> helping xclaesse with the dconf confinement stuff
<desrt> bugs/reviews
<desrt> and starting on a glib release for today
<desrt> eof
<willcooke> good stuff, thanks desrt
<seb128> \o/
<xclaesse> :)
<seb128> it means we are going to stop receiving reports about that nautilus/trash segfault
<desrt> hi xclaesse :)
 * seb128 just commented on yet another report
<desrt> there's a nautilus/trash segfault again? :(
<desrt> can you link me?
<seb128> the one I sent a patch for
<desrt> probably we want to fix this in stable and not have to wait for unstable
<seb128> you didn't do a release since
<desrt> oh
<desrt> about the release
<desrt> gotcha :)
<seb128> yeah
<seb128> :-)
<willcooke> #topic dgadomski
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2015-11-24 | Current topic: dgadomski
<dgadomski> hey, unfortunately I haven't done much in the desktop area this week
<dgadomski> * fix for bug #1510824 accepted upstream, released to Xenial, debdiffs for SRUs are prepared and attached
<ubot5> bug 1510824 in policykit-1 (Ubuntu Wily) "PolkitAgentSession incorrectly handles multiline output (as observed with pam_vas)" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1510824
<dgadomski> and that would be all, thanks
<seb128> dgadomski, I saw your polkit patch got merged, good work ;-)
<willcooke> thanks dgadomski!
<dgadomski> thanks seb128 :)
<willcooke> #topic didrocks
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2015-11-24 | Current topic: didrocks
<didrocks> Ubuntu Make:
<didrocks> - Reviewed and merged CLion work by a new contributor \o/
<didrocks> - Added medium and large tests to it
<didrocks> - Cut the large tests time by half while adding even more tests \o/ (jenkins + tests enhancements)
<didrocks> - Move build dependencies only needed for tests to another ppa (ppa:ubuntu-desktop/ubuntu-make-builddeps) and add it in jenkins tests. This way, people using Ubuntu Make on older release are not impacted by the need of newer version of tests frameworks like pexpect and won't install them. Hook that ppa in Travis CI, our jenkins infra and refresh contributor intro to ask adding that ppa for testing.
<didrocks> - Add ZSH completion
<didrocks> - Fight some jenkins specific + proxy issues while learning more about some os.environ black magic (thanks pitti, even some python god I knew weren't aware about that :p)
<didrocks> - Fix Visual Studio Code which changed its icon path (detected through our testsuite)
<didrocks> - Misc fixes and enhancements for i18n, test standardization and jenkins branch build support (mostly described in https://github.com/ubuntu/ubuntu-make/commit/1469477890a10eba2b17d74d461c22567c24838c and incoming blog post)
<didrocks> Misc:
<didrocks> - Help Laney on and appstream-dep11 fixing some issues when running in virtualenv
<didrocks> - MIR ptyprocess to unblock pexpect 4.0 (which was build-dep wait)
<didrocks> - Small britney wording consistency work )<-- this extra parenthesis is dedicated to Laney <3
<didrocks> - Worked and gather topics and bug reports for Google Code-in students.
<didrocks> .
<willcooke> another new contributor :D
<willcooke> thanks for you work on the Code In project too
<didrocks> yep \o/
<didrocks> yw
<willcooke> #topic FJKong
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2015-11-24 | Current topic: FJKong
<FJKong> hi
<FJKong> not much to update:
<FJKong> 2 days sick leave;
<FJKong> sogou IM bug fixing:
<FJKong> * hot key problem report by users, fixed
<FJKong> * inputing window abnormal when typing : working in progress
<FJKong> eof
<willcooke> thanks FJKong
<willcooke> #topic happyaron
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2015-11-24 | Current topic: happyaron
<willcooke> 1. Finished my zfs-linux packages, uploaded to Debian.
<willcooke> 2. Explore about basics of snappy Ubuntu
<willcooke> #topic hikiko
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2015-11-24 | Current topic: hikiko
<willcooke> I am working on the shadows (and basically I messed up a few things And I am now trying to fix the mess... :D) EOF
<willcooke> #topic laney
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2015-11-24 | Current topic: laney
<Laney> â¢ Short week + slightly sick week
<Laney> â¢ liburcu transition, some random source fixes for this (forwarded + corresponded with maintainers)
<Laney> â¢ finish up britney branch after feedback, got that merged
<Laney> â¢ some of my Debian merges (lintian, bzr, dbus, vorbis-tools)
<Laney> â¢ some other updates (gnome-online-accounts + patch to revert wk2 -> wk1, gvfs)
<Laney> â¢ appstream: work with didrocks on getting this to work from a git checkout in virtualenv, running from there now - next: work on charm
<Laney> â¢ just found a packet of biscuits (crunch creams)
<Laney> â¢ dmb meeting and some chivvying to look at things there
<Laney> â¢ fix an oops where we accidentally removed overlay-scrollbar schemas from the default install
<Laney> â
<larsu> biscuits \o/
<willcooke> thanks Laney
 * willcooke is reminded there is an email to ev in drafts that he needs to finish 
<willcooke> #topic larsu
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2015-11-24 | Current topic: larsu
<larsu> random bugs again this week
<larsu> - a recent i-sound fix on the phone broke notify osd on the desktoip
<larsu> - logging in has a race with xsettings (didn't fix this but spent some time on it)
<larsu> - last patch to remove the black flickering broke shadows on gnome shell
<larsu> - nautilus menubar (coming seb128, sorry)
<seb128> \o/
<larsu> (this is annoying as I can't simply backport stuff)
<larsu> err... I think there's more
<larsu> ah right, the gnome-logs guy asked me to help out with automatically updating the ui when new log messages come in
<seb128> what's the xsetting thing about?
<larsu> and some internal gdbus issues
<larsu> seb128: don't get correct font size when logging in, sometimes
<larsu> really annoying
<seb128> hum, k
<seb128> I never noticed
<larsu> I've had it a couple of times now, but not every time
<larsu> couldn't find anything that could be causing this though :(
<seb128> :-(
<seb128> and speaking about gnome-logs ... we said we wanted to install it by default right?
<larsu> yes
<larsu> I have that on my todo for a but later but helped out since I was pinged anyway
<seb128> great
<larsu> I think it's </larsu>
<seb128> we should stop bothering you with bugs and have a look to gnome-logs and geonames
<larsu> :)
<seb128> before eoy, so we get new components in
<willcooke> thanks larsu
<seb128> then we can go back to bugs
<larsu> seb128: makes sense. lts and all
<seb128> right
<willcooke> yeah, good plan
<Laney> well I tried assigning them instead of pinging ;-)
<seb128> willcooke, sorry for interrupting with questions and comment
<willcooke> :) no worries, good time to comment I think
<seb128> Laney, yeah, that's probably smarter ;-)
<willcooke> #topic qengho
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2015-11-24 | Current topic: qengho
<qengho> * found bug that makes new chromium complain. proposed xdg-utils update that fixes it. gave chromium to #security to upload.
<qengho> * working on chromium/ozone/mir this week.
<qengho> * require more information about Laney's crunch creams. furiously envious.
<qengho> * updating snappy packager scripts.
<qengho> EOF
<willcooke> thanks qengho
<willcooke> did you get to the bottom of why hyperlinks from other apps are broken?  Is that the xdg-utils thing?
<qengho> willcooke: right. xdg-mime bug.
<willcooke> cool
<willcooke> #topic seb128
<seb128> kenvandine is patch piloting today so maybe he can review xdg-utils merge/update
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2015-11-24 | Current topic: seb128
<seb128> otherwise didrocks has a shift on friday
<seb128> oh
<seb128> hey ;-)
<seb128> â¢ debugged u-s-d segfault due to a gsettings schemas key dropped from g-s-d
<seb128> â¢ uploaded gnome-control-center move of user icons data to u-c-c, allowing demoting the source to universe
<seb128> â¢ fixed small gedit document title regression
<seb128> â¢ looked at some langpack translations regression on the ota8 touch candidate
<seb128> â¢ discussed indicator-sound/notify-osd regression, helped to test and land the fix from Lars (thanks!)
<seb128> â¢ reported some bugs+code changes to make some phone dialogs more consistent
<seb128> â¢ libmobiledevice transition
<seb128> â¢ looked at the vino update, decided there was too much to revert (they dropped the standalone dialogs) and that it was easier to keep ours and backport some bugfixes, did that
<seb128> â¢ spending a bit of time every day to review/triage incoming bugs/errors and help with ongoing britney issues and transitions
<seb128> â¢ looked at/fixed some gedit theming issues (just got a patch commited upstream)
<seb128> â¢ continued a bit on the nautilus 3.18 update, not an easy update and still quite some work needed
<seb128> â¢ spend some time looking at if backporting the upstream g-s-d wacom work to u-s-d was possible, it's a bit work and unsure it's worth the effort
<seb128> â¢ started backporting new g-s-d upstream "tz plugin" to u-s-d (to update your tz/notify you that you are in a different tz when travelling), I think I got the changes right but I'm unsure how to test and if we want it (note that it also means installing the new geoclue service)
<seb128> </week>
<seb128> (sorry, busy week ;-)
<willcooke> thanks serb
<willcooke> oops
<willcooke> seb128,
<seb128> yw!
<willcooke> #topic Sweet5hark1
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2015-11-24 | Current topic: Sweet5hark1
<seb128> did I disconnect?
<attente> i'm wondering too
<willcooke> dont think so, just waiting
<seb128> k
<seb128> no Sweet5hark1 it seems...
<willcooke> #topic tkamppeter
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2015-11-24 | Current topic: tkamppeter
<tkamppeter> - ippusbxd: Further testing to try to solve the problem with the HP DeskJet Ink Advantage 2540, ending up with some improvements but without the solution of the problem.
<tkamppeter> - HPLIP: Packaged and uploaded 3.15.11.
<tkamppeter> - Ghostscript: Checked status of MIRs for syncing with Debian: openjpeg still missing (but now chances are higher that it gets into Main as Poppler needs it, too).
<tkamppeter> - Set up a Xenial virtual machine (Used "devel" as distro name in sources.list to automatically always use current devel branch).
<seb128> somebody should offer Sweet5hark1 an alarm reminder device
<tkamppeter> - Bugs.
<willcooke> thanks tkamppeter
<willcooke> tkamppeter, saw your mail re: print dialogues - will follow up with Prod Man to get it scheduled
<willcooke> #topic Trevinho
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2015-11-24 | Current topic: Trevinho
<Trevinho> Â· Improved bamf upstart support
<Trevinho> Â· made spread for application windows dynamic (it updates on new windows, or title changes when using filtering)
<Trevinho> Â· Meeting with Kylin guys (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Ubuntu Kylin/Meeting/2015/20151119)
<Trevinho> Â· Added quicklist to expo launcher icon to switch workspaces.
<Trevinho> Â· Making BAMF not to give priority to launched NoDisplay .desktop files (fixes nautilus being confused)
<Trevinho> Â· Working in better launcher-filemanager integration, by allowing management of Trash/Devices independently.
<Trevinho> î¿î¿î¿
<willcooke> thanks Trevinho
<tkamppeter> willcooke, OK, thanks.
<willcooke> #topic robert_ancell
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2015-11-24 | Current topic: robert_ancell
<willcooke> No update this week, but I spoke to him earlier this week
<willcooke> He's working on GNOME software
<willcooke> we have a list of people to speak to, but so far so good
<willcooke> non-root REST api over UNIX socket should be landing in Snappy soon
<willcooke> #topic any other business
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2015-11-24 | Current topic: any other business
<Laney> yeah
<Laney> should look at the calendar thing
<attente> seb128: what are those wacom changes in upstream g-s-d? are they fixing a crash?
<seb128> Laney, yeah, did you try it?
<seb128> i've that on my list but didn't do it yet :-/
<Laney> no but could do
<seb128> could be useful to have feedback from several people on the interactions
<seb128> I'm going to look at the e-d-s integration bit
<seb128> we need that for our $solution
<seb128> willcooke, did you try/look at both?
<Laney> you mean the thunderbird one?
<willcooke> seb128, I haven't looked at either
 * willcooke adds it to his list
 * didrocks just tried it
<didrocks> remember that I added some easy task for google-code-in
<didrocks> don't jump on them before we are sure nobody will work on it :)
<seb128> Laney, yes
<didrocks> (like changing default color, and so on)
<seb128> right
<Laney> where is this list?
<seb128> didrocks, "it" was the GNOME or the tb one? or both?
<didrocks> GNOME
<didrocks> if the calendar thing is that one :)
<didrocks> Laney: uno momento
<didrocks> Laney: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1rww6mkoQhhuijQx4yBHzMngM3HABeFx4tS7mLs2kMIA/edit#heading=h.e2psrcqwe9c2
 * willcooke is summoned elsewhere
<Laney> hmm
<Laney> are these tasks agreed?
<willcooke> I'm end the meeting, we can carry on calendar discussions in a mo.
<willcooke> and Google Code In
<willcooke> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Nov 24 16:08:43 2015 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-desktop/2015/ubuntu-desktop.2015-11-24-15.30.moin.txt
<seb128> attente, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity-settings-daemon/+bug/1277733 is the wacom thing
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1277733 in unity-settings-daemon (Ubuntu) "Backport newer Wacom tablet support" [Wishlist,Triaged]
<seb128> attente, see bug description
<Laney> like maybe we like headerbars now and do we want to add a patch to change the default colour that will be carried forever?
<attente> seb128: thanks
<seb128> attente, yw
<Laney> perhaps that can be in the theme
<Laney> or somewhere else
<seb128> attente, do you have a wacom device? or were just asking?
<attente> seb128: actually i found last week that plugging in a wacom tablet ends up restarting u-s-d repeatedly
<didrocks> Laney: I made the list reviewed by seb128 and willcooke to have another opinion
<seb128> attente, oh :-/
<attente> so i thought maybe there were fixes upstream
<didrocks> Laney: I still think we should have an ubuntu feeling to gnome calendar
<didrocks> not have an application looking out of place (and so, use the ubuntu default theme color)
<seb128> attente, do you still have access to the tablet? I might ask you to test my backport branch once it's done
<seb128> didrocks, +1
<attente> seb128: yep, i have it
<seb128> attente, great, thanks
<Laney> I'm saying that it is in sync
<Laney> and it would be good to keep it so
<attente> i whip it out on the odd occasion i have to play pictionary online :)
<Laney> you will get a patch to change the default colour in the source
<seb128> Laney, colors can probably be tweaked from the css nowadays no?
<Laney> maybe
<didrocks> I guess otherwise it's a bug in upstream's code
<didrocks> that we should fix :)
<Laney>   /* FIXME: We should handle calendars colours better */
<Laney>   if (!gdk_rgba_parse (out_color, e_source_selectable_get_color (extension)))
<Laney>     gdk_rgba_parse (out_color, "#becedd"); /* calendar default colour */
<Laney> I bet you get a patch to change that
<Laney> unless the task is specified
<seb128> well, we are the ones talking to the students so we can iterate if needed
<seb128> but yeah better to specify in front where we can
<Laney> don't feel like I'm getting much traction
<Laney> lets move on
<seb128> I think we all prefer non-downstream-patching solutions if we can get that yes
<seb128> if that's what you were getting at
<Laney> It's not very likely that the code in student is going to end up maintaining gnome calendar for us
<Laney> so the burden of maintaining the work in the long term falls on us if the patch is in Ubuntu only
<seb128> yeah, I doubt the intend was to have a code patch in Ubuntu
<seb128> the goal is to have the theme tweaked to have the app look better
<seb128> if it's not as easy as theme tweaks it might be off scope for the code-in
<seb128> those are for young students and supposed to be easy
<seb128> we just didn't know that those parts were not css themable
<seb128> though some of the other UI bits might still be?
<Laney> ok, I guess each one should be in a bug report in the end
<Laney> which describes the required solution
<seb128> +1
<didrocks> sounds like Laney wants to open bug report
<didrocks> (which won't be use in the google code-in format description, as it will be filed on google's website)
<Laney> it doesn't really sound like that
<Laney> but it's not going to be good if people write code that gets rejected
<Laney> you can't give links?
<didrocks> Laney: you can I guess, unsure, I was just asked to gather a list. All other tasks that the community team gather don't have bug reports associated
<didrocks> maybe check with them? They are the ones handling this, I don't have access to the backend
<Laney> looks like you get free text
<Laney> and people submit their stuff on the website directly
<mterry> didrocks, kenvandine: yay!  Using an sbuild, I can reproduce the failures.  Oddly, I don't get them locally, in a pbuilder, or in a PPA.  But sbuild hits it.  So at least I see the same thing you do
 * mterry will work on a fix
<didrocks> mterry: weird that sbuild != PPA for once and closer to pbuilder :p
<kenvandine> i had the failures without sbuild too
<didrocks> mterry: but yeah for reproducing!
<mterry> kenvandine, yeah I can't explain that  :)
<kenvandine> sbuild for wily and vivid and locally on vivid
<kenvandine> on both of my boxes
<mterry> kenvandine, but at least now I see the same symptom
<kenvandine> weird
<kenvandine> anyway, glad you reproduced it
 * Sweet5hark1 just woke up again -- should have accepted sick leave for today.
<willcooke> Sweet5hark1, no worries, get better
<Sweet5hark1> willcooke: Ill do my best.
<xclaesse> desrt, got a minute for your advice on the 3 FIXME in my settings backend?
 * didrocks waves good evening and good night
<Laney> night didrocks
<ricotz> pitti, hmm, xdiagnose pulls python3.4 again
<didrocks> see you tomorrow Laney!
<seb128> night didrocks
<didrocks> and seb128 :p
<xclaesse> didrocks, fait de beaux rÃªves ;-)
<seb128> ;-)
<didrocks> xclaesse: hÃ©hÃ©, merci, toi aussi !
<xclaesse> 12h ici ;-)
<pitti> ricotz: the rebuild? I just dropped a no-op option from debian/rules
<ricotz> pitti, yes, 3.8.2
<ricotz> before it properly depended python3.5
<kenvandine> qengho, hey i was sponsoring your xdg-utils patch
<pitti> ricotz: hm, odd; do you know if that changed in python-defaults or so? I can't see what in http://launchpadlibrarian.net/227445991/xdiagnose_3.8.1build1_3.8.2.diff.gz woudl have caused that
<kenvandine> but the debdiff didn't apply cleanly, since there had been another xenial upload
<kenvandine> i cleaned that up so the debdiff applied
<kenvandine> but one of the patches doesn't apply
<kenvandine> debian/patches/handle-multiple-exec-lines.patch
<kenvandine> qengho, ^^
<ricotz> pitti, yeah, it is clearly caused by the toolchain itself then, I would assume doko might have an idea
 * Laney gets juju working
 * Laney server dude now
<seb128> Laney, you are a charming guy! ;-)
<seb128> willcooke, ok, so I did https://git.gnome.org/browse/gedit/commit/?id=9da514288905d5b8013ddd0f2e1bdd29aded61a5 which is what upstream agreed to move in the common section
<seb128> willcooke, do you want maybe to have a look at https://git.gnome.org/browse/gedit/plain/gedit/resources/css/gedit.adwaita.css and see what we should move to our gedit.css in our themes?
<willcooke> seb128, looking...
<seb128> willcooke, we already have some of the bits
<willcooke> I'll copy it over and try it out...
<seb128> willcooke, the sidepane close buttons (if you have documents open/the document section selected) look a bit nicer I think
<seb128> like they are less big square blocks
<seb128> also we should take the
<seb128> GeditStatusbar {
<seb128>     border-top: 1px solid @borders;
<seb128> it makes a line displayed between the textview and the statusbar
<seb128> willcooke, thanks
<seb128> willcooke, I'm going to do a theme landing with the pending fix tomorrow or the day after that
<willcooke> seb128, ack
<seb128> *fixes even
<qengho> kenvandine: some patch with "|sed" earlier doesn't handle .desktop files with many Exec lines well. My path there is an attempt to make sure that the bug doesn't show up again. It's not important for anything other than keeping future versions from being buggy.
<qengho> kenvandine: thank you for looking.
<kenvandine> qengho, that patch was sponsored by mterry since your debdiff was created
<desrt> xclaesse: sorry.  was eating lunch.  happy to help now.
<kenvandine> qengho, anyway, i'm done piloting i need to get back to other things now
<kenvandine> sorry i couldn't get it uplaoded
<kenvandine> uploaded
<xclaesse> desrt, np, was going for lunch now ;-)
<xclaesse> desrt, btw, what TZ are you?
<desrt> k.  hit me up when you get back
<desrt> EST
<desrt> 12:30 here
<qengho> kenvandine: the only patch that's important is the one that makes mime defaults update .config location, not only .local/share/applications/ .
<xclaesse> ah, same here, MontrÃ©al :)
<qengho> kenvandine: ah. Dang.
<desrt> â toronto
<qengho> kenvandine: okay.
<willcooke> seb128, are you getting any double-click / single-click oddness, especially in gedit in the normal file open window?
<willcooke> seb128, like, *sometimes* a single click opens a folder, and sometimes its a double click
<seb128> willcooke, yes, it's quite annoying, I was just being grumpy here about that
<willcooke> :) glad it's not just me
<seb128> I do open -> other documents and want to select files and I'm used to double click to open and single click around
<willcooke> I'm trying to work out the best way to recreate
<seb128> and single click validates things now
<seb128> bah
<willcooke> I think we need to keep that behaviour as it used to be
<seb128> it seems they screwed up the delay
<seb128> like if you single click a folder
<seb128> then single click again it takes it as a double click
<seb128> or it opens selected folders on single click
<seb128> either way confusing
<Laney> it's always the selected file
<Laney> I think
<seb128> always the selected file that what?
<Laney> that opens with a single click...
<seb128> right, I wonder if that's wanted
<seb128> it's confusing
<seb128> the change is wanted
<seb128> the side effect is a bug which got fixed with https://git.gnome.org/browse/gtk+/commit/?id=c619c862503ccf54c9afbdb0708a3376ce1728fb
<Laney> https://git.gnome.org/browse/gtk+/commit/gtk/gtkfilechooserwidget.c?h=gtk-3-18&id=fb0a13b7f070a14312dafa1e4df6ba03cf33be01
<seb128> which is actually the bit that annoys me
<seb128> when you double click the folder it opens on first click then open a file in it with the second
<Laney> nod
 * seb128 asks if they can backport that fix to 3.18
<Laney> it is
<seb128> hum
<seb128> it should be in .5
<seb128> doesn't work though :-/
 * seb128 comments on the bug
<seb128> I'm also not convinced by the behaviour, would be curious to know mpt's/design opinion on that
<seb128> it makes the UI feels unreliable, it behaves differently in different situations and it's not obvious why
<seb128> but I guess the goal was for touch and the patch was supposed to make it no do that for mouse events?
<willcooke> with a mouse it just feels plain broken.  I dont think we can expect users to learn a new way of doing things at this point.
<willcooke> we should start a list of things to talk to John about on 10 Dec, seb128 can we wait that long?
<mpt> âmake our own double-click determinationâ? That sounds like fun
<seb128> willcooke, we sure can
<Laney> talk to mclasen?
<seb128> I commented on the bug
<seb128> waiting to see what pbor says
<seb128> his commit feels like "shouldn't do that for mouses"
<seb128> since he wrote to ignore button 2/3 events
<Laney> that's not the same as willcooke was talking about with "plain broken" and not learning a new thing
<Laney> that is a judgement on the entire feature
<seb128> well my understanding is that the feature is meant for touch
<seb128> e.g finger use
<seb128> willcooke's point is probably for mouse users
<willcooke> indeed
<Laney> you didn't say that in your comment
<seb128> need to go for a bit but I can comment a bit more/ask pbor directly later on IRC
<Laney> it's a mclasen feature, he was just fixing a bit of it
<seb128> right, well if pbor's fix does what I understand it should do then I don't think we have an issue
<seb128> otherwise we need to ask mclasen
<seb128> bbiab
<Laney> not if you hate the entire single click feature
<seb128> shrug
<seb128> I hate it for mouses
<seb128> not for touch
<Laney> then you need to speak to him
<seb128> ok, need to go
<seb128> oh, right
<seb128> I understand what you mean
<Laney> not trying to be difficult, I just don't think that fix is meant to turn it off for mice
<seb128> right, it's going to make the file not open
<seb128> but selected instead?
<seb128> but yeah, good point
<Laney> it's probably meant to fix accidental double clicks or something
<seb128> I'm going to report a new bug/talk to mclasen I guess
<Laney> but still single clicking on a selected item is meant to open it
<seb128> right
<seb128> sorry for being slow to get what you meant
<seb128> going to file a bug later
<seb128> need to go for now ;-)
<Laney> ok!
<Laney> laters
<willcooke> cheers Laney
 * Laney gives up on juju + lxd
 * Laney tries the canonistack instead
<Laney> http://10.55.60.153/
<Laney> 'mazin
<seb128> Laney, not loading from here ... is that a public ip?
<seb128> willcooke, btw about that single/double click, we might want to talk to design before reporting upstream, would be better to have a bug with some contructive input/design recommendation
<seb128> rather than just "it sucks, was better beforfe"
<willcooke> :)
<willcooke> good plan
<mterry> kenvandine, didrocks: fixed deja-dup tests in sbuild (kenvandine, the issue I found was around HOMEs that didn't exist -- I still don't know why it was failing for you)
<willcooke> DAMN IT GEEEEEDDIITTTTTTTTT
<willcooke> keeps crashing and loosing my in-line style in the selector
 * willcooke has got wise to it now 
<willcooke> I've been saving a text file with every change I make
<willcooke> but yeah, gedit is super crashy for me
<jpds> willcooke: apt-get install vim
<willcooke> :D
<attente> ugh... i disabled maliit, and now i can't adb into the device because the screen is locked and i need maliit to unlock it
<willcooke> wakka wakka wakka
<attente> lol
<willcooke> I can't think of a hacky work around, but popey might know.  he's good at that sort of thing
<attente> is it possible to use a hardware keyboard? i don't actually have one lying around though
<willcooke> dunno, I think otg is enabled now
<willcooke> ogra_ might know as well ^
<attente> i wonder if sshd is running on this thing
<willcooke> only if you enabled it I think
<Sweet5hark1> good news: at least build-arch finishes with 5.1.0~alpha/xenial
<willcooke> \o/
<willcooke> other good news, my css selectors are working at last :)
<seb128> willcooke, report the crash if you can get a backtrace
<willcooke> seb128, will do, once I've got these gedit theming sorted
<willcooke> I'm on a roll :)
<seb128> let me know tomorrow morning if you need help to get the bt
<willcooke> thx seb128
<seb128> np!
<seb128> on that calling it a day
<seb128> have a good evening everyone
<willcooke> cya seb128
<willcooke> hi robert_ancell
<willcooke> bye robert_ancell
<robert_ancell> willcooke, heh
<willcooke> I'm admitting defeat with these themes for the day and going to watch tv before it's 11pm again
<willcooke> ah crap
<willcooke> I still haven;t sent that follow up to ev - will do tomorrow
<willcooke> g'night!
#ubuntu-desktop 2015-11-25
<pitti> Good morning
<hikiko> hi :-)
<didrocks> good morning
<pitti> bonjour didrocks !
<didrocks> bonjour pitti :)
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<seb128> hey pitti, wie gehts?
<seb128> re didrocks
<didrocks> re seb128
<pitti> hey seb128! gut, danke! und Dir?
<seb128> pitti, auch gut, danke
<seb128> a bit tired this morning though
<pitti> j'ai me levÃ© Ã  5:30, c'est trop tÃ´t -- mais, beacoup de temps calm dans le matin :)
<pitti> like for unscrewing debhelper before everyone else starts uploading again :)
<seb128> hehe, I saw that on -changes
<pitti> but I didn't manage to break devel, just -proposed; so no fun for xenial users
 * pitti gives britney a cookie
<seb128> :-)
<hikiko> Hey pitti didrocks seb128
<seb128> hey hikiko! how are you?
<hikiko> I am fine :-) and you?
<didrocks> hey hikiko
<hikiko> Bonjour Didier
<seb128> I'm good thanks
<Trevinho> Morning
<didrocks> good morning Trevinho
<seb128> hey Trevinho
<seb128> how are you?
<willcooke> morning all
<willcooke> larsu, I'm having trouble with borders on GeditCloseButton not doing what they are told, specifically radius.  But.. it looks like I can set the border on the GtkImage of the close button and that works better.  Is that OK?
<seb128> hey willcooke
<seb128> how are you?
<didrocks> morning willcooke
<seb128> willcooke, larsu was around until like 10 minutes ago, he went to the gym
<willcooke> aint no thing, it can wait
<seb128> willcooke, did you copy what the gedit-adwaita is doing?
<seb128> I didn't pay attention to the borders much but that looked better to me that the non themed ones
<seb128> well the ones in the sidebar documents list at least
<seb128> you might be speaking of tabs or something else
<Laney> morning
<willcooke> seb128, yeah got that all sorted, just trying to match the theme as closely as possible from the old one specifically when you hover over a close button you get a border
<seb128> k
<seb128> hey Laney! how are you? getting over the cold?
<willcooke> seb128, hrm, but good point - adawita is doing what I want actually
<willcooke> seb128, also I've finished copying the bits over from Adwaita gedit to our theme, just need to get these close buttons done and we're good to go
<seb128> \o/
<seb128> let me know when you have that up
<willcooke> will do
<seb128> I can test it there and then start on the landing
<Trevinho> seb128: so, so...
<Trevinho> Hey didrocks
<seb128> Trevinho, sooooo
<Laney> seb128: it is more of a cough now
<Laney> sooooooooooo I hope that is progress?!?!?!
<didrocks> Laney: happy that you start feeling better! :)
<willcooke> Laney, can you remind me what, if anything, we decided about libinput?
<Laney> willcooke: that we thought tjaalton was handling it...
<Laney> or would
<willcooke> ah yes, and he said something along the lines of "it's pretty much necessary for the future, so we should try and get it in for 16.04"
<willcooke> $customer asking about whether libinput would be in 16.04
<didrocks> $customer is a customer with some dollars? :)
<willcooke> :)
<Laney> I'm sure that either way the OEM build would be able to have it
 * Laney is using libinput driver already
<tjaalton> xserver-xorg-input-libinput is in the archive, but in universe as nothing depends on it yet
<Laney> hey tjaalton
<willcooke> ah cool, thanks tjaalton
<tjaalton> once the unity input config capplet supports it we can include it via xserver-input-all
<willcooke> and then it would be available to anything that wanted to use it?
<seb128> tjaalton, it replaces other drivers right?
<seb128> are Debian/Fedora using it?
<willcooke> Trevinho, or maybe seb128 can you comment on input config capplet ^^ ?
<seb128> would we loose any feature by switching?
<tjaalton> seb128: fedora is
<tjaalton> no
<tjaalton> it doesn't support wacom yet, but that's coming in libinput itself
<tjaalton> but it would replace evdev and synaptics as a start
<seb128> willcooke, well basically it means updating u-s-d/u-c-c code by importing what GNOME did, our versions are quite different so it's non trivial but still doable
<seb128> tjaalton, how risky is the change?
<seb128> like is likely to make trackpads not work correctly?
<tjaalton> seb128: I think it's an overall improvement
<seb128> or edge scrolling or some things work differently?
<tjaalton> all work
<seb128> k
<seb128> do you have any cycle to backport the libinput conversion in u-s-d/u-c-c?
<seb128> or is that something we should look at
<seb128> I've that on my todolist but that list is long
<tjaalton> I'm working on lts-wily backports atm
<seb128> I'm also trying to backport the new wacom code from g-s-d, same story
<tjaalton> the u-s-d/u-s-c fork is for good?
<seb128> yes
<seb128> well, for good ... at least for the coming LTS
<seb128> I doubt it's relevant in unity8
<tjaalton> no way to configure things?-)
<seb128> in unity8?
<Laney> there's a new settings app there
<seb128> let's keep that for another day
<tjaalton> hehe
<tjaalton> ok
<seb128> but yeah, there is ubuntu-system-settings
<seb128> but it's limited, though there is ongoing work to make it fit for convergence
<seb128> but that's not really important for the LTS/libinput discussion
<tjaalton> right
<tjaalton> anyway, I think debian would be ripe to do the switch, need to ask other folks on the team
<tjaalton> they don't have unity to worry about :)
<seb128> GNOME was talking about dropping the non-libinput code
<seb128> so Debian is eventually going to follow by just updating
<tjaalton> ok
<seb128> tjaalton, what happens today if we start using libinput?
<seb128> reading https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=740604 and looking to git, I'm not even sure we need u-s-d/u-c-c changes?
<ubot5> Gnome bug 740604 in mouse "Avoid configuring xf86-input-libinput devices" [Normal,Resolved: fixed]
<seb128> ah, it says they decided against the wrapper
<seb128> so GNOME moved the handling in g-s
<tjaalton> so it seems
<tjaalton> I guess migrating now in xenial wouldn't be too dramatic
<tjaalton> but at least all the forcepads I have need libinput, synaptics just doesn't work
<tjaalton> or needs too much pressure to move the cursor
<tjaalton> but the kernel driver is lacking something so right-button emulation isn't working, making forcepads still somewhat crippled..
<tjaalton> but that's not related to the migration
<seb128> yeah
<pitti> hey Laney, how are you?
 * pitti missed you coming "in"
<pitti> Laney: ignore the autopkgtest mass failure emails, dealt with (that was me breaking debhelper)
<seb128> tjaalton, willcooke, I think we would need to update u-s-d/u-c-c to use the new api/property for libinput (not idea what changed but reading the GNOME bug it seems the way to change configs probably changed)
<willcooke> and then for synaptics, we just keep using the old drivers?
<tjaalton> no libinput replaces the synaptics driver
<willcooke> I R Confused.  So with libinput people with synaptics touchpads would have a bad time?
<tjaalton> no
<tjaalton> libinput replaces evdev and synaptics
<willcooke> ohh
<willcooke> so people with forcepads would be happier with libinput
<willcooke> and everyone else probably wouldn't notice
<Laney> would you remove those drivers?
<tjaalton> probably
<tjaalton> or my hw is just funky so that synaptics doesn't work well
<Laney> or have code to handle both?
<willcooke> how do we turn "probably" in to something more concrete that we can rely on for an LTS?  Is it a case of spending more time looking in to it?
<tjaalton> no -evdev and -synaptics would still be around for some time, but probably gone before release
<tjaalton> more folks using it. I know there have been issues with pointer acceleration code, but that's fixed by now I think
<seb128> ok, so let's supposed we drop evdev and synaptics
<tjaalton> libinput 1.2 will be released soon
<seb128> and put libinput
<seb128> what happens if we do no other change
<seb128> if I go to u-c-c and change e.g edge scrolling
<seb128> would that setting work?
<tjaalton> not sure it would even show that
<seb128> so we would regress functionnalities?
<tjaalton> on the config side yes
<tjaalton> two-finger scroll still works :)
<tjaalton> at least here it just shows primary-button and double-click settings
<tjaalton> nothing else
<seb128> so my touchpad has edge scrolling and I like that better than 2 fingers scrolling
<seb128> with libinput I wouldn't be able to use edge scrolling anymore?
<tjaalton> dunno
<tjaalton> it's easy to test, just install the driver
<tjaalton> you can configure it with xinput
<Laney> oh, missed pitti's hello - hi!
<davmor2> laney he was in stealth greeting mode
<seb128> tjaalton, seems the current code does XChangeDeviceProperty() calls to change settings
<seb128> andXGetDeviceProperty()
<seb128>         rc = XGetDeviceProperty (GDK_DISPLAY_XDISPLAY (gdk_display_get_default ()), xdevice,
<seb128>                                  prop, 0, 2, False,
<seb128>                                  XA_INTEGER, &act_type, &act_format, &nitems,
<seb128>                                  &bytes_after, &data);
<seb128> willcooke, so I guess it's currently not in our backlog, we don't have anyone understand the pro/con and the work needed
<seb128> if that's something we should work on we need to create an item for it and investigate those
<seb128> so not on the path to happen unless we decide it should
<seb128> tjaalton, ^
<tjaalton> ok
<willcooke> thanks seb128 tjaalton
<willcooke> yeah, sounds like there is a lot of work to be done before we know
<willcooke> maybe I can find another team to look in to that
<seb128> I'm unsure about "lot"
<willcooke> non-trivial then :)
<seb128> right
<seb128> brb, restarting without evdev/synaptic drivers and with libinput one, just to see
<tjaalton> you don't need to remove anything btw
<andyrock> willcooke: I need 5 more minutes
<seb128> it might confuse u-c-c to think it can configure things where it can't
<willcooke> andyrock, oki no worries - ping when you are ready and we can join the HO  ( <--- Trevinho, hikiko, seb128)
<andyrock> waiting for the lecture break but the the teacher is kind of excited maximizing a log likelihood :D
<Trevinho> willcooke: I'm in
<willcooke> andyrock, :)
<hikiko> willcooke, sec
<hikiko> sorry
<willcooke> andyrock, we're in the HO and we will get started
<seb128> willcooke, tjaalton, so installed libinput, removed evdev/synaptic, restarted session, my edge scrolling isn't working anymore
<seb128> the touchpad section of the settings also vanished
<seb128> no "tap to click"
<seb128> or "edge scrolling"
<seb128> so yeah, needs porting to the new api
<tjaalton> seb128: you don't need to remove anything, libinput just overrides the xorg.conf.d snippets evdev/synaptics provide
<seb128> tjaalton, right, I just wanted to be a clean state to not confused the UI controls
<seb128> to be on*
<seb128> unsure what they check
<tjaalton> sure
<Laney> These have to be updated to look at the libinput xinput properties no?
<andyrock> willcooke: looking for the link
<Laney> Currently it looks for "Synaptics foo" for many foo
<Laney> but xinput list-props x shows a lot of "libinput foo"
<seb128> Laney, right, that's basically what I was saying/confirming
<seb128> needs code change
<seb128> and GNOME didn't do those for us since they moved the handling to g-s
<Laney> they put it in gnome-screenshot?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?
<seb128> :-)
<seb128> libinput edge scrolling sucks :-(
<seb128> I enabled it with "xinput set-prop 16 "libinput Scroll Method Enabled" 0 1 0"
<seb128> but it's practically impossible to use on my latitude
<tjaalton> how?
<seb128> dunno, I've to have my finger really close from the border and press more than before
<seb128> and it only detects it as a scrolling half of the time
<seb128> http://who-t.blogspot.nl/2015/03/why-libinput-doesnt-support-edge.html
<seb128> that is deprecated but it explained by libinput was not doing edgescrolling/how it conflicts with other features
<tjaalton> yep
<seb128> so maybe they detection/logic is different from what older drivers are doing
<seb128> in any case it's harder to use on my machine
<tjaalton> could just be a bug
<seb128> yeah
<tjaalton> seems fine on mine
<seb128> well, it just confirms that it's not a trivial no-change swap
<seb128> we are introducing new code and different behaviours
<seb128> and different set of bugs
<seb128> anyway, enough playing with that
<seb128> it's enough to confirm that changing involves some wokr
<willcooke> thanks a lot seb128, tjaalton, Laney
<seb128> going to let willcooke&other managers decide if it's high enough that we need to budget cycles for it
<seb128> willcooke, yw!
<seb128> brb, rebooting
<tjaalton> well, perhaps keep evdev/synaptics around and make it easy to switch back
<Laney> who's going to do the u-c-c/u-s-d work?
<willcooke> no one right now
<Laney> I mean in theory
<seb128> back
<Laney> feel like it's sort of being glossed over but that is tough
<Laney> yo
<seb128> I missed some context I guess
<Laney> I tried edge and it seems okay here, hate that mode though :P
<willcooke> well, I imagine someone in our team would work on it
<willcooke> seb128, <Laney> who's going to do the u-c-c/u-s-d work?
<seb128> Laney, that was my comment about "up to the managers to decide how much of a priority it is and what resources get allocated to it"
<Laney> ok
<Laney> if we do no work then OEMs can still include it and preset their defaults in xorg.conf snippets btw, just users won't be able to configure it with a gui
<seb128> right
<willcooke> Laney, yeah good point.  If they do want it on in their images, I'm hoping that we can get them to commit to some of the work as well
<Laney> willcooke: yeah - the feature tests mean that we don't expose any *broken* UI
<Laney> - g_bit_nth_lsf@Base 2.12.0
<Laney> - g_bit_nth_msf@Base 2.12.0
<Laney> - g_bit_storage@Base 2.12.0
<Laney> +#MISSING: 2.47.2-1# g_bit_nth_lsf@Base 2.12.0
<Laney> +#MISSING: 2.47.2-1# g_bit_nth_msf@Base 2.12.0
<Laney> +#MISSING: 2.47.2-1# g_bit_storage@Base 2.12.0
<Laney> dddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddessssssssssrrrrrrrrrrtttttttttttt
<seb128> desssrttt
<larsu> desrt!
<Laney> there's some weird shit going on around inline functions in this release
<larsu> willcooke: I guess it should be ok. in general we try to avoid setting things on widget names directly
<larsu> and use classes instead
<Laney> larsu!!!!
<larsu> morning all that I have missed
<larsu> hi Laney :)
<Laney> been @ gym?
<larsu> ya. and going to lunch now
<Laney> haha
<seb128> larsu, enjoy!
<Laney> tough day
 * larsu will have to work more in the afternoon/evening today :)
<larsu> thanks!
<willcooke> larsu, got it, thanks.  Had a look at how Adawaita was doing it and saw that was the correct way, and actually, I just got it sorted
<larsu> willcooke: very cool :)
 * larsu thinks willcooke is shaping up to be a good theme maintainer
<willcooke> it seems though that -gtk-gradient borders can't have radiused edges
<larsu> hm really?
<willcooke> I'm verrrrry slow
<larsu> if css can do it, gtk should be able to as well
<willcooke> yeah, at least border-radius doesn't have an effect
<larsu> bug?
<willcooke> maybe I need to slice them to make it work
<willcooke> but that's too hard for me
<larsu> :)
<larsu> anyway - to late for my lunch date. see you in a bit
<willcooke> l8r#
<willcooke> background-color: rgb(255,0,0); is the CSS equivalent of print "XXXXX I am here!"
 * willcooke <-- l33t hax0r
<Laney> * { color: red; background-color: limegreen; } // IS THIS THING EVEN RUNNING?
<willcooke> :)
 * Laney has done this kind of thing before
<Laney> when fixing o-s issues back in the day
<seb128> Trevinho, btw did you meant to ask about something earlier with your "so, so..."?
<Trevinho> seb128: no, as few mins before you asked how I was... :)
<seb128> Trevinho, oh, sorry, I didn't read that as a reply, rather than as an opinion to a topic to discuss
 * seb128 hugs Trevinho
<Trevinho> :-)
<seb128> Trevinho, did you find a way to deal with the matching issue with nautilus? btw did you see my comment about gedit/are you looking at that one as well?
<willcooke> seb128, I want to check a couple of bits of styling before commiting these changes.  Can I just add a "padding: 10px" (or whatever it was in to gtk-widgets.css for testing?
<willcooke> oh, this is for the file dialog
<willcooke> not the normal file browser, the other one
<seb128> sure, why not?
<seb128> the sidepane widget is shared between nautilus and file-selector
<seb128> I'm unsure what you are asking?
<seb128> https://code.launchpad.net/~willcooke/ubuntu-themes/fix1515557/+merge/278423 ?
<Trevinho> seb128: for nautilus https://code.launchpad.net/~3v1n0/bamf/safer-pid-desktop-registration/+merge/278461
<seb128> cool
<Trevinho> seb128: for gedit, I don't know... As I said yesterday we already use the _GTK_APPLICATION_ID (thanks to larsu's work) to use it as desktop-id... So not sure why it doesn't work
<Trevinho> seb128: I didn't see the issue btw (yet)
<willcooke> seb128, ah, this is the one I meant:  https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=758585
<ubot5> Gnome bug 758585 in file loading and saving "Open menu dropdown is 'compressed' & unintelligible with other themes" [Normal,Resolved: fixed]
<willcooke> I'll just hack that fix in so I can test gedit
<willcooke> and make sure I don't commit it
<seb128> willcooke, you can also upgrade gedit, that fix landed in xenial yesterday
<willcooke> ah, even better, thanks seb128
<seb128> yw
<seb128> Trevinho, with gedit the issue is that if I dnd gedit from the dash to the launcher I gedit a gedit.desktop added to my launcher
<seb128> but if I start gedit from a command line I get
<seb128> _GTK_APPLICATION_ID(UTF8_STRING) = "org.gnome.gedit"
<seb128> which leads to a new icon in the launcher
<seb128> same if I open a document from gedit
<seb128> ups
<seb128> gedit->nautilus
<Laney> seb128: could those theme tweaks go to the 3.18 branch too?
<Laney> oh they did
<Laney> nice ;)
<seb128> righnt
 * Laney needed to pull
<seb128> willcooke, Laney, https://bugs.launchpad.net/gtk/+bug/1519778 just for info (corresponding bugzilla bug filed as well)
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1519778 in gtk+3.0 (Ubuntu) "Single click opening of selected items in file-selector is confusing" [High,New]
<willcooke> thx seb128
<seb128> yw
<willcooke> hrm, my theme changes are working.  Back to the drawing board...
<seb128> not working?
<willcooke> my selectors arent matching
<didrocks> seb128: I guess will feels that working is wrong :)
<willcooke> oh
<willcooke> *are not
<seb128> charles, hey, any chance you could have a look to https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/indicator-datetime/+bug/1261191 ? it seems like a good one to fix for the LTS
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1261191 in indicator-datetime (Ubuntu) "indicator-datetime list evolution calendar all day event a day before actual date of event" [High,New]
<didrocks> "what, this is working, let's revert it" :)
<seb128> hehe
 * Laney switches on bbc parliament
<Trevinho> Laney: what's happening?
<davmor2> Sweet5hark: do you have a screenshot of what the icons in LO should look like on Ubuntu at all, I think I still see the gnome ones in kvm on the daily in live session on first start up but would like to be sure
<Laney> Trevinho: a bit of political theatre, some budget cuts to be announced
<Laney> seb128: thx for the bug
 * Laney screams
<Laney> sun just started reflecting off a window opposite
 * Laney goes blind
<davmor2> Laney: what is this sun of which you speak
<Laney> you don't want it
 * didrocks would want some sun now :(
 * davmor2 doesn't believe Laney has it, you sure it is not a Police search helicopter light?
<desrt> Good morning all
<desrt> time to get my coffee, croissant, and a side of HIDEOUS ABI BREAKAGE
<desrt> yum
<Laney> hi desrt! :D
<desrt> will take a look :)
<Laney> maybe just a missing available annotation?
 * Laney wants a croissant
<desrt> ya.  visibility is the first thought that occurred to me too
<desrt> since I'm fairly sure the definitions are being properly emitted
<desrt> but seriously... the abi thing was third in that list for a good reason :)
<didrocks> good morning desrt!
<desrt> moin :)
<xnox> =(
<xnox> desrt, what abi breakage?!
<didrocks> xnox: a gliby thingy
<didrocks> xnox: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2015/11/25/%23ubuntu-desktop.html#t10:46
<desrt> inlining in glib has been a disaster for a while -- we had inline versions in headers and backup versions in the .c file in case the compiler that you were using to build your project which included the headers didn't suport inlining
<desrt> we gave up on that now since all compilers do inlining
<desrt> so i cleaned up a lot of that mess, and tried to preserve the old versions for strict ABI compatibility
<desrt> but clearly failed :)
 * desrt escapes key-fob insanity
 * desrt dives into ABI insanity
<desrt> our building has massive keyfobs that double as garage-door-openers and i'm tired of carrying mine around... and i've long suspected that the transmitter and keyfob aspects of it operate separately... so i took it apart today to figure out which part of it was responsible for each
<desrt> oddly enough, the thing stopped working after i took it out of the case
<desrt> turns out the nfc/rfid bit is the back panel of the case itself
<desrt> Laney: visibility was indeed the problem.  want a new release today?
<desrt> (i already pushed the fix if you want to cherrypick it in the meantime)
<Laney> desrt: probably a good idea, other distros might pick it up and not notice
<willcooke> larsu, I'm going insane here.  My padding is being ignored for buttons in gedit, but everything else (like a test background colour) is being applied
<willcooke> ?!
<Laney> thanks for fixing
<willcooke> any ideas?
<willcooke> when I paste it in to the inspector it works
<seb128> willcooke, what rule do you use?
<willcooke> don;t understand "rule"
<willcooke> css selector?
<seb128> sorry, what lines do you add to the css
<seb128> so we can try
<willcooke> I'll pastebin it
<larsu> willcooke: you can see in the inspector where a value comes from
<larsu> in "style properties"
<larsu> it tells you file and line nr
<willcooke> larsu, it's blank
<larsu> then your rule doesn't apply
<willcooke> but the b/g colors *are* being applied
<larsu> what is it? Do you have a branch?
<willcooke> pastebin.ubuntu.com/13502453
<willcooke> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/13502453
<larsu> hehe I was about to complain about the non-clickiness of that first link ;)
<willcooke> :)
<larsu> that's apps/gedit.css?
<willcooke> yeah
 * willcooke wonders if it could be some of the @xyz definitions being wrong for our theme
<larsu> willcooke: ya, that seems to be it indeed (remove the "theme_" prefix)
<willcooke> heh, thanks larsu, sorry to bother you with that
<larsu> no worries :)
<Laney> pitti: do you know if we're allowed to use backports in cloud deployed things?
<Laney> trusty doesn't have a new enough lmdb, but I could backport it
<pitti> Laney: I'm not sure that we even have a policy about what you can use
<Laney> that sounds great to me ;-)
<pitti> Laney: indeed trusty is pretty strongly recommended, but as long as you keep stuff updated backports sohuld be fine
<Laney> I thought it was pretty tight
<Laney> but actually I found a page about dev managed stuff even in prodstack
<Laney> so if you get full control...
 * Laney goes hog wild
<pitti> Laney: I need a newer twitter-bootstrap3 for debci as well
<Laney> pitti: I saw something where you wget a deb from the archive
<Laney> that was great :P
<pitti> Laney: yes, I manage autopkgtest myself, it's not CI managed
<pitti> Laney: well, it's an utter hack, but *shrug*
<Laney> pitti: this is prodstack, right?
<pitti> yes
<Laney> just the workers in scaling?
<Laney> cool
<pitti> Laney: the adt testbeds are in scaling; the workers themselves are on a PS instance
<Laney> yeah sorry, that's what I meant
<pitti> Laney: what are you charming up, OOI?
<Laney> appstream extractor
<Laney> another thing I'm not sure about is how to handle the cinder volume holding the archive mirror
<Laney> it'd be a pain to have to start this from fresh each time
<Laney> so maybe I can do it out of band
<pitti> Laney: archive mirror?
<Laney> juju doesn't seem to support this in the way I want yet
<Laney> yeah, need a local one
<pitti> Laney: ah, you want to attach a separate storage to your instance with that data
<Laney> yes, it shouldn't be tied to the unit(?)
<Laney> otherwise you have to re-mirror from scratch each time
<pitti> Laney: where "each time" is just "when you redeploy", no?
<pitti> which should happen like twice a year
<pitti> so I wouldn't sweat that too much
<pitti> Laney: and the mirror that you get in the cloud is pretty fast already
<Laney> don't know
<Laney> it's still a multiple hour operation
<pitti> Laney: TBH I'd just start with setting up debmirror as part of your charm
<pitti> Laney: you can upgrade a charm, you don't always need to re-deploy from scratch
<Laney> I thought I might have the deploy script handle attaching a volume
<pitti> welll, that indeed sounds elegant
<Laney> i.e. do it out of band
<pitti> Laney: I found that you can't charm quite a number of things anyway; you're going to need some deploy.sh script which invokes the various juju deploy, juju add-relation etc. commands, so you can do it there too
 * Laney shrugs, will see, maybe it does prove to not be required that often
<Laney> it would also be good to store the assets themselves in a resillient fashion
<Laney> so after a redeploy we can serve the latest run until we catch up again
<Laney> maybe I'm overthinking this for this early stage :)
<pitti> Laney: so you can deploy your service
<pitti> Laney: then use direct OpenStack commands to add the storage to your newly created machine
<Laney> yeah, that bit should be fine
<Laney> and I store the assets on this volume too
<pitti> machine_no="$($(juju status myservice) | grep machine: | grep -o '[0-9]\+')"
<pitti>     machine=juju-${env}-machine-${machine_no}
<pitti> and then $machine is the thing to talk to with openstack commands line nova
<Trevinho> desrt: hey, do you know what's the best way to get a gfile uri to be transformed to the actual path? I.e. I'd like to get the actual path from "trash://"
<larsu> Trevinho: g_file_get_path()
<larsu> it returns NULL though for things that don't have a path
<Trevinho> larsu: tried in python but I get nothing
<larsu> including trash://, I think
<Trevinho> that's the thing
<Trevinho> if you don't initialize it with a path, it won't work
<larsu> trash isn't really a path...
 * Trevinho wonders what nautilus uses
<larsu> gio api
<Trevinho> yeah, I know.. I mean, what it uses to get the proper path to show
<larsu> where does it show that?
<Trevinho> I mean, when you open trash:// in the location bar, it just open it as an ur and then fetches the children of that, or it maps to the real path to show?
<larsu> Trevinho: it fetches the children with gio api
<larsu> there's no path on the file system mapping to that
<Trevinho> Mh, I see..
<desrt> Trevinho: what larsu said
<desrt> Trevinho: imagine you have http:// uri
<Trevinho> Well the thing is that if you go in the trash, the you open a subfolder...
<desrt> some GFile's simply do not have a path
<Trevinho> nautilus open the actual paths
<Trevinho> path*
<Trevinho> the location is not trash://subfolder
<desrt> that seems odd
<Trevinho> err trash:///subfolder
<desrt> curiously, i also see the same
<desrt> nautilus may have some special code to do this
<Trevinho> yeah, that's why I was wondering how to dothat...
<desrt> pretty sure there is nothing on GIO API to support this
<desrt>   standard::target-uri: file:///home/desrt/.var/lib/Trash/files/trashthis
<desrt> so there you go
<larsu> errr where do you see this?
<Trevinho> standard::target-uri ?
<desrt> gvfs-info
<desrt> this is very strange, since the type of the thing is a directory
<desrt> i wonder why i did that.....
<larsu> no sorry, I mean in nautilus
<desrt> i didn't do it.  it was hadess
<larsu> I don't see the target-uri btw
<desrt> see https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=667794
<ubot5> Gnome bug 667794 in trash backend "g_file_get_path() shouldn't return NULL" [Normal,Resolved: fixed]
<desrt> so there you go
<desrt> Trevinho: my official answer is "it didn't used to do that but now it does and i don't really understand the reason"
<Trevinho> mh, ok :-D
<desrt> "so that totem can play DVDs from the trash"
<desrt> (!)
<larsu> wtf? Seriously?
<desrt> that's what the commit says :)
<larsu> sigh
<desrt> anyway
<desrt> Laney: new glib release is out
<Laney> yay
<desrt> hopefully this one isn't hideously broken
<Trevinho> desrt: so.... There's no really way to get me the actual trash path?
<desrt> Trevinho: but there is!
<desrt> examine the standard::target-uri property, i guess
<Trevinho> desrt: a part from going trhough children..
<desrt> you can query it from g_file_query_info
<Trevinho> desrt: there's nothing for gvfs-info trash:///
<desrt> it has to be on a file in the trash
<Trevinho> desrt: there's for gvfs-info trash:///trashed-child
<desrt> trash:/// isn't an actual location
<desrt> it is a combination of several locations (for example trash folders on removable media)
<Trevinho> yeah, but I wanted to get from trash:/// -> file:///home/marco/.local/share/Trash/files/
<desrt> different items can be in different actual locations
<Trevinho> mh
<desrt> if you want to know the homedir one, the answer is simple
<desrt> by the spec it's in XDG_DATA_HOME/Trash/files
<Trevinho> desrt: ok, that's what I wanted to use...
<desrt> g_get_user_data_dir()
<Trevinho> desrt: but you defined data_home on ~/.var/lib ?
<larsu> Trevinho: what are you doing?
<desrt> Trevinho: i set my XDG_DATA_HOME to that
<Trevinho> larsu: launcher icons <-> storage windows matching
<Trevinho> desrt: ok, then I'd go for that then
<desrt> read http://standards.freedesktop.org/trash-spec/trashspec-1.0.html
<desrt> but consider removable media
<larsu> Trevinho: shouldn't that matching be on the uri, and not on the path?
<Trevinho> desrt: yeah, that's the thig
<Trevinho> larsu: in fact I was doing it using the URI...
<desrt> just use GFile...
<desrt> you do not want to reimplement the trash spec
<larsu> nautilus windows tell you on dbus what they are showing right now (as a URI)
<desrt> says someone who has implemented the trash spec
<Trevinho> larsu: then... If you open nautilus trash and you go inside a trashed folder, nautilus sayus that you're in ~/.local/....
<larsu> Trevinho: that's a bug
<desrt> ya.. this is a combination of a nautilus bug and hadess being insane
<Trevinho> larsu: that's what I'm using, but it's not using the URI for trash sub-folders
<desrt> one of those two situations ought to be rectified
<larsu> it should though
<desrt> (perhaps both)
<desrt> i can totally see the nautilus logic here
<Trevinho> that's why I asked... otherwise my coed would have worked perfectly without caring about the actual trash uri
<desrt> "did the user click on something that has a symlink destination?  go to it."
<desrt> when the logic should be:
<desrt> "did the user click on something that IS A SYMLINK AND has a symlink destination?  go to it."
<desrt> why hadess sets symlink destination on a directory?  no idea.
<Trevinho> desrt: so you'd say we should fix nautilus or..... just use a workaround in unity side?
<larsu> fix nautilus :)
 * larsu hides
<desrt> Trevinho: i'm chatting with hadess.  i think we need to fix gvfs.
<desrt> we should also think about fixing nautilus while we're at it
<Trevinho> desrt: ok, thanks... Let me know what's the final decision...
 * Trevinho drives back to Florence
<seb128> Trevinho, safe drive!
<Trevinho> snow allert :o
<Trevinho> seb128: thanks
<seb128> tedg, hey, do you remember what is the deal with bug #1165420? did we remove indicators content from the hud on purpose? or was it a side effect of the gmenu transition?
<ubot5> bug 1165420 in hud (Ubuntu) "Unable to access indicators from HUD" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1165420
<attente> hi, does anyone know or have a debian/watch file for github releases?
<seb128> attente, ibus has one
<seb128> https://github.com/ibus/ibus/releases .*/ibus(?:-|_|_v|V)(\d\S*)\.(?:tar\.xz|txz|tar\.bz2|tbz2|tar\.gz|tgz)
<seb128> unsure if it works though
<attente> seb128: thanks, i will try it
<xnox> checking for XMIRMODULES... no
<xnox> checking whether to build Xmir DDX... yes
<xnox> configure: error: Xmir build explicitly requested, but required modules not found.
 * xnox needs help
<seb128> xnox, where is that?
<xnox> seb128, on s390x
<seb128> robert_ancell would probably be your best bet but he's sleeping at this time
<xnox> i guess i should skip it, just like it is skipped on arm64, powerpc and ppc64el
<seb128> maybe bregma or ChrisTownsend or tedg can help you
<seb128> yeah, probably
<xnox> #shame -> i already bootstrapped mir
<tedg> seb128, it was removed because it failed in user testing. The plan was to bring it back with additional info, but it never got implemented.
<seb128> tedg, ok, seems quite some users liked/would like that (me included), I was wondering if that was something to "fix" for the LTS
<seb128> I though it was buggy
<seb128> not disabled on purpose
<tedg> Sadly, no clue on Mir. Try #ubuntu-Mir
<seb128> I would argue that the audiance that uses hud is probably not confused by indicators being listed in there
<tedg> seb128, I am +1, I doubt there is anyone in design that remembers that user study anyway ;-)
<seb128> would it be easy to re-enable? do you remember where that was changed?
<tedg> seb128, it has been rewritten since...
<seb128> oh, right :-/
<seb128> tedg, thanks
<seb128> so a valid wishlist but not likely trivial
<tedg> But we now have an indicator registry, so it should be easier now.
<seb128> tedg, k, let's see if somebody can pick it up as LTS polish, I put it on the list
<didrocks> good night everyone!
<willcooke> cya didrocks
<didrocks> see you!
<Trevinho> desrt: got anything from that discussion?
<desrt> annoyingly, no
<Trevinho> desrt: mh, so... going for a workaround for now
<desrt> Trevinho: we're still chatting about it
<desrt> Trevinho: but sure... more workarounds are cool too
<Trevinho> desrt: well, I don't love them, but if we can't find a better solution upstream...
<desrt> we can
<desrt> but you haven't given much time
<Trevinho> maybe :-)
<Trevinho> I was wondering... In case of a subfolder trashed on an external device...
<Trevinho> what's its uri?
<Trevinho> I mean, trash://media-id/folder or what?
<attente> seb128: could i submit a new package for upload to the archive?
<Laney> glib uploaded to sync tomorrow, some first work on appstream charm pushed
<Laney> LATERS
<Sweet5hark> willcooke: fyi http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/Candidacy-Bjoern-Michaelsen-td4167393.html
<willcooke> Sweet5hark, good stuff!  Good luck
 * Sweet5hark starts kissing babies and buys a smear campaign on TV.
<ricotz> Sweet5hark, lol, thumbs up
<willcooke> alrighty!!!
<willcooke> I have vanquished by Gtk theme foes with a combination of brute force and ignorance
<willcooke> I'll finish it tomorrow
<willcooke> g'night all
#ubuntu-desktop 2015-11-26
<didrocks> good morning
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<hikiko> hello...
<hikiko> I just woke up :/ My mobile ran out of battery :/
<hikiko> +no alarm today :)
<RAOF> A fine morning, then! :)
<RAOF> BAH! Who broke the compose key!
<hikiko> hahaha
<RAOF> Also, why is it suddenly 6pm.
 * RAOF -> EOD.
<hikiko> :DDD
<hikiko> enjoy your rest of the day RAOF :)
<didrocks> good morning hikiko, evening RAOF :)
<seb128> RAOF, enjoy!
<hikiko> good morning didrocks seb128 :)
<pitti> Good morning
<hikiko> good morning pitti :)
<seb128> lut pitti
<seb128> Ã§a va bien ?
<pitti> hey hikiko!
<pitti> Ã§a va seb128 -- oh, tu es plus tÃ´t que moi :)
<seb128> \o/
<seb128> pitti, tu as bien dormi ?
<pitti> seb128: je vais bien, jeu au basket hier Ã©tait grand
<seb128> "grand"?
<pitti> seb128: "bon", Je suppose
<seb128> c'est mieux oui
 * pitti keeps being misled by "great" vs. "grand"
<didrocks> hey pitti!
<pitti> bonjour didrocks !
<seb128> "grand" is "tall" usually
<pitti> seb128: mais beaucoup de personnes lÃ  sont grand aussi :)
<seb128> google translator seems a bit confused as well and suggest "great" as first translation for "grand"
<seb128> pitti, c'est vrai !
<darkxst> hey seb128 pitti didrocks
<pitti> hey darkxst
<didrocks> good evening darkxst
<darkxst> anyone care if I drop obexftp from gnome-user-share? so far as I can tell its useless with bluez5 anyway
<darkxst> gvfs dropped it ages ago
<darkxst> I doubt it even works and there are no supported clients
<darkxst> seb128, ^
<seb128> hey darkxst
<seb128> darkxst, I don't know enough about it to comment, what's the motivation for the change?
<darkxst> seb128, merge gnome-user-share to 3.14, but keep the prefs panel
<seb128> seems fine to me
<darkxst> it has the binary split, and there are lots of bluetooth fixes in there, that mostly only affect you guys
<darkxst> and even including apache 2.4 support ;) though could have just cherry-picked that
<seb128> updating is better, if we can
<darkxst> seb128, yes that was my thoughts also
<darkxst> patches are done, I'll do a merge with debian over the weekend
<seb128> great
<willcooke> morning all
<TheMuso> Hey willcooke.
<darkxst> hey willcooke
<seb128> hey willcooke TheMuso
<TheMuso> Hey desktoppers.
<didrocks> hey willcooke, TheMuso
<Laney> ahoy
<seb128> hey Laney!
<seb128> how are you?
<pitti> hey Laney!
<Laney> hey seb128 and pitti
<Laney> doing good, my fingers are feeling the burn from climbing yesterday \m/
<Laney> how about you?
<didrocks> morning Laney!
<pitti> Laney: doing good as well, my body is aching (in a good way) from the 2.5 h basketball
<didrocks> ah, you feel better enough for climbing? Nice!
<Laney> woo!
<Laney> hey didrocks!
<seb128> doing good as well, played some double tennis yesterday (but only for an hour, wanted some relaxing as well and it started raining)
<Laney> nice
<Laney> getting cold for that :P
<Laney> oh look, dezrt's new tests fail
<Laney> https://buildd.debian.org/status/fetch.php?pkg=glib2.0&arch=armhf&ver=2.47.3-1&stamp=1448490072
<seb128> haha
<Laney> https://buildd.debian.org/status/package.php?p=glib2.0&suite=experimental
<Laney> all 32 bit arches
 * Laney shakes head sadly
 * TheMuso -> EOD, later folks. :)
<willcooke> see ya TheMuso
<seb128> RAOF, did you say you planned to update colord-gtk in Debian? ;-)
 * willcooke remembered the tar command first time
<didrocks> willcooke: it's easy, just tar cf <yourfile>.<your_ext> dir
<didrocks> based on the extension, it will compress (hence the 'c'), the file (f) in the desired format
 * willcooke uses cvfj
<willcooke> oh
<didrocks> no need for j, nor v :)
<willcooke> when did it start doing that?  (expecting the answer 1998)
<didrocks> just "tar cf foo.bz2 bla" for instance
<didrocks> a year and half ago :)
<didrocks> so not that outdated!
<willcooke> oh phew!
<didrocks> (of course, same for extracting)
<willcooke> I didn't get a letter from the elders of the internet about this
<didrocks> heh
<didrocks> hum, we don't produce any more usb image, right?
<Laney> I thought the omitting of the compression type only worked for 'x'
<didrocks> Laney: oh, possible it's doing that silently, let me check
<Laney> check with 'file' that it's actually compressing it :P
<didrocks> Laney: ah, you are right
<didrocks> willcooke: withdraw what I said for compress then ^
<didrocks> it's just creating a tar
<didrocks> extract works though
<Laney> tar xvf foo.tar.whatever works though
<willcooke> neat!
<didrocks> Laney: yeah, I would have hope some fallback based on the extensionâ¦
<Laney> doesn't mean you get to forget the letters
<Laney> which is Good Unix Knowledge
<didrocks> FYI, I'll have a look this afternoon on our language that we shipped by default, expect some seed changes :)
 * didrocks wants to reintroduce the one we shipped at least in hardy
<Laney> programming language or speaking language?
<didrocks> (as no more size constraintsâ¦)
<didrocks> speaking :p
<didrocks> yeah, haskell on the CD of course! :)
<Laney> how much space are you talking about?
<didrocks> I need to remember how this works on install without Internet access. I guess we just needed to ship in live
<didrocks> Laney: well, it's hard to know in advance
<Laney> no limit but that doesn't mean go super wild
<didrocks> Laney: hence, we need to look at
<didrocks> yeah
<Laney> sure it is, boot a live iso and install the new packages
<didrocks> I won't ship a big extra number of them
<didrocks> Laney: well, you will the know the extracted size
<Laney> you know the size of the debs
<Laney> which is more or less good enough
<didrocks> then, we can still approx that package size == size in the squashfs
<didrocks> yep
<didrocks> that's what I'll look at, to see how many we can ship reasonably
<didrocks> (more afraid about the install part, that this is still working as expected)
<Laney> what install part
<didrocks> like, you don't have any network connexion
<didrocks> connection*
<didrocks> you choose "de"
<didrocks> which is part of the live task
<didrocks> ensure that we have it installed
<didrocks> and that other languages are removed when not selected
<Laney> what makes you think it doesn't work?
<Laney> we definitely touched this area with chinese stuff in wily
<didrocks> did anyone test that no chinese package is installed after a fresh one?
<didrocks> (if you select en)
<Laney> yes
<didrocks> good then :)
<Laney> so I'm wondering what you have seen
<didrocks> nothing
<Laney> or is it just a random thing?
<didrocks> just telling "we should ensure it's working"
<didrocks> so unsure what this discussion is even about
<davmor2> willcooke: next you'll be saying you know how to use vim, sed and regex ;)
<willcooke> I've being using vim for years
<willcooke> mainly because I can't work out how to quit it
<willcooke> badum *tish*
<Laney> unsure> you started it?
<didrocks> Laney: the bikeshedding part? I don't think so :)
<didrocks> Laney: just telling "I'm going to work on that and test it, just a warning"
<Laney> bikeshedding?
 * didrocks shrugs
<Laney> I was trying to establish if you've seen something because I worked on the area
<Laney> not really bikeshedding
<davmor2> willcooke: wompwompwomp.com
<Trevinho> Hi
<seb128> hey trevinho, how are you? was the drive back alright yesterday?
<larsu> where did you drive?
<Trevinho> seb128: yes.... Alright. Then I hacked till late on unity / nautilus :-P
<seb128> oh, larsu is there as well!
<seb128> hey larsu ;-)
<Trevinho> larsu: I was at my parents home wich is 1.5hrs far from Florence, and I had to go back to my place
<didrocks> good morning Trevinho!
<Trevinho> Hi didrocks
<larsu> ah cool
<larsu> and good mornigng I guess
 * larsu forgot to say that earlier :)
<larsu> hi seb128 & didrocks as well!
<pitti> hey larsu, guten MOrgen!
<didrocks> hey larsu ;)
<larsu> moin pitti!
<attente> good morning
<willcooke> attente, O_o  early start?
<seb128> hey attente
<attente> willcooke: trouble sleeping...
<seb128> willcooke, how is the gedit theming going btw?
<willcooke> seb128, - spooky!  I was just about to ask you to try it
<willcooke> there are two branches you will need
<seb128> hehe
<willcooke> https://code.launchpad.net/~willcooke/ubuntu-themes/geditspecific
<willcooke> https://code.launchpad.net/~willcooke/ubuntu-themes/notebooktabs
<willcooke> they address different issues, but the gedit changes need the notebook changes to look ok
<willcooke> There are still some minor issues with the tabs (borders and such, but a) I don't have time to spend looking at it right now and b) I think we need to leave something for the Google Code In guys to work on
<xnox> welcome seb =)
<attente> seb128: good morning
 * xnox should scroll down scrollback before replying
 * xnox had the chat at seb saying good morning =)
<darkxst> willcooke, heh, lets put everthing on hold, and leave it for the google code in, kids ;)
<willcooke> darkxst, :)  We can try.  It's a good strategy
<seb128> hey xnox!
<attente> seb128: do you have time to review https://code.launchpad.net/~attente/maliit-inputcontext-gtk/trunk?
<darkxst> yes, I am making a list of bugs I would rather not fix, just for that reason!\
<xnox> ssshhhh. i have plenty of things for google code it to build ;-)
<willcooke> oh, now I need to fix terminal as well
<willcooke> so yeah, larsu or seb128 - gonna need some help getting the inspector to work with GNOME terminal.  I think I have to *shudder* build from source
<Laney> I'm used to those bigger tabs now so will complain when they change back :P
<willcooke> :D
<darkxst> larsu,  are the css nodes in gtk+ going to be a problem for ubuntu themes?
<seb128> willcooke, gedit looks fine to me, but can you include the
<seb128> GeditStatusbar {
<seb128>     border-top: 1px solid @borders;
<seb128> }
<seb128> as well?
<seb128> willcooke, unsure why you discarded it, but without that the status bar is not well delimited from the document
<seb128> willcooke, I included it in gedit as a workaround until the theme is updated but we shouldn't distro patch gedit for that
<willcooke> seb128, I checked on the the old gedit and there is no border.
<seb128> current xenial has that patch, see ^
<larsu> willcooke: you can do it!
<seb128> what do you call "old gedit"?
<willcooke> erm, the version running in my W vm
<larsu> darkxst: what do you mean by problem? They'll certainly need a lot of adjustment
<larsu> just like adwaita
<seb128> willcooke, well, it looks better with it :-)
<willcooke> seb128, agreed
<willcooke> one sec...
<seb128> willcooke, there is something weird with the notebooktabs changes
<seb128> they make the wm controls being wrong
<Sweet5hark> moin
<seb128> or quite different from ours themed ones at least
<seb128> hey Sweet5hark!
<Sweet5hark> seb128: heya.
<seb128> the buttons borders as well
<willcooke> seb128, sorry, don't understand
<seb128> willcooke, http://people.canonical.com/~seb128/gedit.png
<seb128> is what gedit looks like with the notebooks branch changes
<seb128> seems like the wm decoration background color changed
<seb128> like the minimize, restore ones were light
<seb128> willcooke, http://people.canonical.com/~seb128/geditold.png
<seb128> easier than words
<seb128> I think you tab color change doesn't impact only tabs
<seb128> ?
<willcooke> hmm.  I suspect I copied something from Ambiance to Radiance that I shouldn't have ;)
<willcooke> seb128, is it just gedit?
<seb128> no
<larsu> ah, the joys of css :)
<larsu> "I wonder what else this rule *could* be affecting"
<willcooke> seb128, just checked on here, and I can see the gedit b0rkedness but others seem ok
<seb128> willcooke, you need something use GtkHeaderBar decorations
<seb128> try gtk3-demo
<seb128> using*
<willcooke> hrm, hold on - it's fine on this machine.  I had a specific theme selected in the inspector
<willcooke> can't reproduce
<seb128> I applied the diff from your commit with patch, so maybe something weird with that :-/
<willcooke> I'll reset everything to default here and try again
<willcooke> seb128, hrm.  I deleted all Amb. and Rad. copied over a fresh version from the archive, reapplied my changes, and it all looks ok here
<willcooke> :/
<willcooke> also, http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~willcooke/ubuntu-themes/geditspecific/revision/457
<willcooke> includes the status bar border and whitespace fixes
<seb128> willcooke, you should mp the gedit one
<willcooke> seb128, will do
<seb128> I'm going to try again the other branch
<willcooke> https://code.launchpad.net/~willcooke/ubuntu-themes/geditspecific/+merge/278682
<seb128> willcooke, +1
<willcooke> woo!  10 years later I finally have something in Ubuntu
 * willcooke goes off to find some champagne 
<seb128> willcooke, how do you try?
<seb128> willcooke, I opened http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~willcooke/ubuntu-themes/notebooktabs/view/head:/Radiance/gtk-3.0/gtk-widgets.css
<seb128> clicked "download file"
<seb128> copied over /usr/share/themes/Radiance/gtk-3.0/gtk-widgets.css
<seb128> then "gedit -s"
<seb128> (using the corresponding theme of course)
<seb128> still get the issue
<willcooke> hrm, lemme try that...
<seb128> willcooke, oh, and congrats on getting changes landing in Ubuntu ;-)
 * seb128 lunch, bbiab
<willcooke> seb128, aha.  I got it now
<willcooke> :/
<willcooke> but only in a guest session
<willcooke> oh no, there we go
<willcooke> careless copying on my part
<willcooke> seb128, fixed
<willcooke> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~willcooke/ubuntu-themes/notebooktabs/revision/457
<willcooke> trying to build gnome-terminal from source...
<willcooke> have installed build-deps
<willcooke> have also done ./configure --enable-debug --disable-search-provider
<willcooke> but it's saying aclocal.m4 failed with error 127
<willcooke> ahh
<willcooke> aclocal-1.13 is missing
<willcooke> 1.15 is available
<willcooke> oops, wrong keyboard
<willcooke> oh, I think I fixed it
<willcooke> I ran /usr/bin/gnome-autogen.sh
<willcooke> and now it makes
<darkxst> willcooke, that is obsolete though
<darkxst> atleast upstream are trying to move away from using those scripts
<darkxst> (i think)
<Laney> there's probably an autogen.sh
<willcooke> Laney, doesn't seem to be one
<Laney> you using git or the package?
<willcooke> apt-get source
<willcooke> it's built not
<willcooke> *now
<willcooke> and then I did a sudo make install
<willcooke> and things happened
<Trevinho> iS there a way to enter in a recovery-mode like for lxc?
<davmor2> Trevinho: how do you mean?
<Trevinho> davmor2: my lxc container doesn't start anymore due to some journal daemon issues... I guess it was a wrong update..
<Trevinho> davmor2: so I wanted to try to fix
<Trevinho> davmor2: chrooting there and using apt is safe?
<davmor2> Trevinho: ah okay no idea
 * Laney stabs fontconfig
<Laney> what the F
<didrocks> Laney: what's up?
<Laney> trying to fix/craft a snippet for the ubuntu arabic font
<Laney> doesn't seem to work in LO write
<Laney> r
<Laney> does this even use fontconfig?
<Laney> gedit is fine ._.
<didrocks> Laney: that's what I was going to say, I'm unsure it's using fontconfig
<didrocks> Sweet5hark: ? ^
<Laney> oh actually
<Laney> hmm
<Laney> this is weird
<Sweet5hark> yes, LibreOffice uses fontconfig ... somehow. at least we are shipping it even on windoze/osx
<Laney> it has wrong spacing I think
<Laney> but the right character
<Laney> s
<willcooke> Yyyyyeeeesssssssss!  I've got a terminal with the inspector working
<Trevinho> willcooke: :ð
<willcooke> Laney, did you see the blurb about Rasp. Pi Zero?  There's a "free" one on the front of Mag Pi magazine today./
 * willcooke is off to the shops now....
<Laney> nein
<Laney> what is that?
<didrocks> Laney: it's all over my rss feed!
<Laney> bah, rss feeds
<Laney> I've been writing XML!
<didrocks> :p
<Laney> ok, /me looks at plus
<didrocks> as long as there is no xpath/xslt, you're safe :)
<didrocks> (but arm11, as the first raspyâ¦)
<Laney> mmm
<Laney> Sweet5hark: could you help me check this font?
<Laney> install https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop/+archive/ubuntu/ppa/+build/8346050 pkg, type some arabic in writer in the "Ubuntu" font
<Laney> it should use Ubuntu Arabic via the fontconfig rule and does in gedit
<Laney> i.e. if you pick Ubuntu Arabic from the selector explicitly there should be no change
<Laney> but there is, the spacing changes (characters look the same to me but maybe I just can't tell)
<Sweet5hark> Laney: *urgh* is that a regression? anyway the whole font rendering stuff in vcl is ... "interesting" ...
<Laney> I don't know
<Laney> just wrote this rule now
<Laney> there's a chance I messed it up :(
<Laney> but fc-match seems to agree with me
<willcooke> meh - they dont' have it
<willcooke> I did see a full on Vegas style Elvis doing his shopping though, so not a totally wasted trip
<Sweet5hark> Laney: so http://opengrok.libreoffice.org/xref/core/vcl/generic/fontmanager/fontconfig.cxx has the fontconfig wrapping ...
 * Laney blind
<Sweet5hark> Laney: not sure, if we ever supported what you are trying to do though ...
<Laney> basically substituting one font for another which has different spacing
<Sweet5hark> Laney: there is also the fontsubst.cxx in the same dir as above. If I get you right though, you want your document to be rendered differently because of changes in your font-config. I dont know how much we do that and if that would even be considered a feature. Rendering document content depending on system config is something most users do not consider, but a bug ...
 * seb128 head -> desk
<seb128> the new nautilus maintainer is weird
<seb128> <seb128> csoriano___, btw you should make your editor display spaces/tabs, your commits seem to often alternate between those and it's looking weird/buggy
<seb128> <csoriano___> seb128: I already do, what I'm trying is to slowly replace tabs by spaces, they drove me crazy
<seb128> <csoriano___> so when it's a new line I use spaces, when it's an already line there I use tabs
<seb128>  I'm not sure how good that approach is
<seb128>  but really, tabs makes me crazy :)
<Laney> Sweet5hark: what happens if I load it on a system with a different set of fonts installed?
 * seb128 shrugs
<Laney> it's shipped as part of the font, not really config
<Sweet5hark> (usually those result in bugs filed as "my document renders wrong on $platform", then corrected to s/wrong/different/ ....)
<Sweet5hark> k
<Laney> just turns out to be in a separate file
<Laney> kind of annoying actually
<Sweet5hark> Laney: usually ODT documents specify their own font fallback in the document. Also LibreOffice can store font in the document these days.
<Laney> bet that bit doesn't know about fontconfig
<Laney> thinking about this makes me feel ill
<Sweet5hark> ya, I dont think that highlevel stuff knows or cares much above fontconfig.
<Laney> like you can type any name into the selector but it turns out to mean something else
<Laney> even depending on things like the font size
<Sweet5hark> (currently 365 open libreoffice bugs with "font" in the subject: crossplatform font rendering is hard)
<Laney> just one bug per day!
<Sweet5hark> well, there are also 790 resolved bugs with "font" in subject (198 of those with resolution: fixed).
 * Laney lunch
<desrt> good morning, desktop
<didrocks> good morning desrt
<desrt> hey didrocks
<pitti> hey desrt, good morning
<seb128> hey desrt
<desrt> pitti: nice to see you around :)
<desrt> seb128: good morning to you as well
<pitti> desrt: heh, I'm here all the time :)
<desrt> what's everyone up to this afternoon?
<seb128> desrt, Laney was looking for you ;-)
<desrt> pitti: but usually AFK during the good-morning round :)
<desrt> seb128: uh oh...
<seb128> indeed
<seb128> hide!
<desrt> what did i break now?
<seb128> glib tests on 32 bits arch it seems
 * desrt makes a face
<seb128> https://buildd.debian.org/status/fetch.php?pkg=glib2.0&arch=armhf&ver=2.47.3-1&stamp=1448490072
<desrt> # GLib:ERROR:/Â«PKGBUILDDIRÂ»/./glib/tests/overflow.c:100:test_checked_guint64_add: assertion failed (cases[i].c == result): (4294967294 == 8589934590)
<desrt> tsk tsk tsk
<desrt> it's actually my fault, too
<desrt> installing a 32bit chroot now to take a look
<desrt> pitti: what happened to our gnome CI? :(
<desrt> nobody tests i386 anymore, unfortunately
<pitti> desrt: that's been gone for years already, it was mostly a prototype back then but there wasn't enough interest upstream to keep it
<pitti> I also thought it had pretty much been superseded by Colin Walter's os-tree builds
<desrt> apparently not
<desrt> if it's not amd64, it's not getting tested :p
<desrt> Laney: all kinds of warnings even building that test :(
<desrt> Laney: want to just pull the patch from the tip of master?
 * desrt just pushed it
<desrt> extremely silly error
<Laney> desrt: indeed, I would have suggested that fix
<Laney> thanks!
<desrt> fek
<desrt> $5 rasp pi
<desrt> time to reconsider my cluster!
<seb128> charles, hey, could you get an indicator-landing organized? there are 6 "ready to land" branches, some waiting since septembre
 * desrt considers that the usb ethernet adaptors would probably cost several times more than the rest of the computer
<willcooke> desrt, indeed, plus the cheapest SD card I found on ebay was 1.80 GBP
<desrt> i think it would be possible to speak ppp over the gpio
<willcooke> but still, the time where a computer being given away with breakfast cereal is pretty much with us
<willcooke> start a ppp session over the UART
<desrt> not sure if that's fast enough to support distcc or not
<willcooke> :)
<desrt> i guess it's probably also possible to wire in the power via pin headers instead of having to use microusb plugs
<desrt> so that means you could get a network attached server running with ~4+ish wires soldered on
<desrt> at this point i'd probably replace ppp+distcc with something that received .c source over the serial connection (with checksums) and wrote back the object code when it was done
<desrt> free up a bunch of memory for the compiler
<desrt> would want to add pipelining so that you could send the source of the next program (and receive the binary of the previous) while building
<desrt> ...and would you look at that.. the uart pins on the gpio are immediately adjacent to the power rails
<larsu> desrt: hi!
 * larsu was in hiding hacking on nautknautlius
<didrocks> larsu: I prefer "nonotilus" :)
<Laney> naughtylus
<didrocks> :p
<didrocks> not bad
<larsu> one of the problems I'm having is that many actions are in a "view" action group that I can't access from dbus :/
<larsu> didrocks: meh. shitty connection and ssh+irssi don't mix well :)
 * larsu is on a train
<larsu> desrt: any idea how to quickly export those without copying them all to win.?
<desrt> larsu: no good way, sorry.
<larsu> ya that's what I figured
<larsu> head -> desk
<didrocks> larsu: you have a desk on the train?
<didrocks> luxury larsu :)
<larsu> didrocks: I do :)
<larsu> fancy german ice
<didrocks> heh
<didrocks> just so that you can bang your head against it
<larsu> this is what I'm doing right now
<larsu> it's ridiculous how much time I spend on a stupid menu
<Laney> something for the CV
<larsu> ...
<Laney> I am one of the world's foremost experts in menu exporting
<larsu> ya no shit
<didrocks> larsu: do you make home delivery as well? :)
<didrocks> I want my menu at home!
<larsu> haha
<larsu> no sorry
<didrocks> :(
<didrocks> sad face
<larsu> unless you live on the dbus womewhere
<larsu> *somewhere
<didrocks> I heard it's a busy placeâ¦
<didrocks> with a lot of menu-related traffic
<larsu> haha
<larsu> not that much - turns out exporting some of them is really hard
<didrocks> and you didn't tackle the java ones (yet)
 * larsu hides
<larsu> almost at the station - see you latwr!
<didrocks> see you larsu
<didrocks> good night guys!
<willcooke> cya didrocks
<didrocks> see you willcooke
<Trevinho> seb128: I've just pushed this small change: https://code.launchpad.net/~3v1n0/nautilus/export-active-locations/+merge/278730
<seb128> Trevinho, thanks, I'm going to have a look when I'm doing updating the patch I'm working on
<Trevinho> seb128: it's not changing much, mostly I'm moving the active view as first listed... So at unity level I can know what's selected
<seb128> Trevinho, ok
<seb128> there are quite some changes in the new nautilus
<seb128> I hope it's going to be fine as an user experience
<seb128> like they removed the copy dialog
<seb128> to make it part of the window
<Trevinho> seb128: the thing is that... I might in some way support tabbed windows, and associate a window with multiple launcher icons, but I guess it's not the best thing... Maybe it's just better to focus on the selected tab... While other tabs are ignored
<Trevinho> Oh, finally!
<seb128> hehe
<chrisccoulson> seb128, no one uses file managers though, right?
<seb128> I updated the patch so we still get the launchpad progress bar
<chrisccoulson> (and hi) :)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, hey ;-)
<seb128> right, users don't need a fs anyway
<Trevinho> That might mean to remove even some workarounds in unity code... (Nothing really about "nautilus" is hardcoded, but  it's a condition that only nautilus has)
<seb128> datas are owned by apps!
<chrisccoulson> heh
<Trevinho> seb128: lovely
<Trevinho> (the launcher progresss)
<seb128> Trevinho, merged your change, I still have a patch to update after the one I'm working on then we need larsu's menu work, then the update should be ready, but you can already build from bzr if you want to test the new version, it works fine, just lack some ubuntu bits
<Trevinho> seb128: thanks, I'm writing a copule of other patches as well, to add timestamp support to some actions so that we can remove workarounds that caused some bugs...
<willcooke>  right, gotta go.  Beavers helping tonight
<willcooke> l8r
<Trevinho> seb128: I've just pushed a new change to that branch, can you still merge it or want a new one (I've protected x11 calls, so that it won't crash in mir)?
<seb128> Trevinho, I can uncommit and merge again I guess
<Trevinho> nice
<seb128> trevinho, let me know when you have pushed your commit
<Trevinho> seb128: it's pushed
<Trevinho> seb128: nooooo
<seb128> trevinho, weird, https://code.launchpad.net/~3v1n0/nautilus/export-active-locations/+merge/278730 doesn't show it
<Trevinho> seb128: in the wrong branch :/
<Trevinho> seb128: it's now there
<seb128> trevinho, still not ... or did you overwrite?
<seb128> oh, it is now
<Trevinho> :)
<seb128> trevinho, ok, merged
<Trevinho> cool
<xclaesse> attente, are there documentation for the libapparmor API somewhere?
<attente> xclaesse: i don't know
<xclaesse> attente, any example code?
<attente> xclaesse: what are you trying to do?
<xclaesse> attente, test your dconf api
<xclaesse> attente, first I need to take the "security context"
<attente> xclaesse: please don't use my patches, they're superceded by the patchset jjohansen has written: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/apparmor/2015-October/008654.html, https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/apparmor/2015-October/008655.html, https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/apparmor/2015-October/008656.html, https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/apparmor/2015-October/008657.html
<xclaesse> attente, wasn't sure if those patches were superseeding yours of if it was aternative implementation that you didn't agree with
<attente> xclaesse: those patches are superceding them, but from what i understand, the apparmor developers are too busy this cycle to merge this feature
<xclaesse> attente, with that API we can only query permissions on a given path, we cannot query the list of ro/rw paths, rights?
<attente> xclaesse: i'm also not sure about that, but looking at the new api, there seems to be a generic blob-getting function aa_query_label_data(), but i'm not sure if it's possible to extract the whole chunk and it seems pretty low level
<xclaesse> attente, hm, not sure to understand what aa_label_data_info contains
<xclaesse> I'll make tests to see
<xclaesse> attente, a more basic question, in those APIs, how do I get the "label" ?
<xclaesse> aa_getcon() ?
<jjohansen> attente: well, very busy, can't commit to merging them, but if they happen to show up. I did promise I would spend weekend time to get them reviewed
<jjohansen> I will work on getting the base apparmor lib patches in,
<jjohansen> I've got another set of patches to send out for review that those will go in
<attente> jjohansen: ok, thanks for updating us. xclaesse ^ it might be best to wait till the api is more final
#ubuntu-desktop 2015-11-27
<xclaesse> jjohansen, note that your function aa_query_label_data() doesn't build
<xclaesse> jjohansen, +int aa_query_label_data(const char *label, const char *key, aa_data_info *out) --> I'm guessing it should be aa_label_data_info *out
<xclaesse> also it calls aa_clear_label_data() which should be aa_clear_label_data()
<xclaesse> sorry, I mean it calls aa_clear_data_info() which should be aa_clear_label_data()
<xclaesse> that function should probably even be called aa_clear_label_data_info()
<jjohansen> xclaesse: okay, I will look at it later tonight when I get back
<xclaesse> jjohansen, do you know how to get the label from a dbus name?
<xclaesse> should be something like aa_getpeercon() but I don't have the peer pid or fd
<jjohansen> xclaesse: you do it with a dbus call
<jjohansen> http://paste.ubuntu.com/11230338/
<jjohansen> it used to be org.freedesktop.DBus.GetConnectionAppArmorSecurityContext()
<jjohansen> but as part of our upstreaming work it got changed to  org.freedesktop.DBus.GetConnectionCredentials
<jjohansen> so depending on which distro/version you are using
<pitti_> Good morning
<hikiko_> Good morning
<hikiko_> Hi pitti
<RAOF> Good morning hikiko_, pitti_!
<RAOF> 'Tis the time for alternate nicks!
<pitti_> hey RAOF, hikiko!
<pitti_> yeah, it seems freenode broke for me
<hikiko_> Hi raof! :-)
<pitti_> this morning my proxy was using some guest1234, and bip keeps failing to connect to freenode now, with "read(fd=4): Connection error: Connection reset by peer", "[freenode] read_lines error, closing..."
<pitti_> not sure if that's just me
<RAOF> Yeah, I got punted from freenode at some point.
<RAOF> Working now :)
<didrocks> good morning
<pitti> bonjour didrocks!
<didrocks> salut pitti ! comment Ã§a va ?
<pitti> didrocks: Ã§a va bien, merci ! et toi ?
<pitti> as ever, debugging autopkgtest stuff in the mornings :)
<didrocks> Ã§a va :)
<didrocks> ah, bon courage ! ;)
<RAOF_> pitti: Could you please, at your leisure, do an upload of colord-gtk?
<pitti> RAOF_: want me to dch -r/tag myself ?
<RAOF_> pitti: Yes, please.
<RAOF_> (To unstable)
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<seb128> hey RAOF_ pitti
<RAOF_> Mornin' seb128!
<pitti> hey seb128!
<pitti> RAOF_: hm, sbuild is hanging on "building package 'sbuild-build-depends-core-dummy", hang on
<seb128> happyaron, hey
<pitti> ... repeatedly; wth
<pitti> this happens for other packages too
<pitti> and works in my xenial schroot, meh
<pitti> RAOF_: so, apt-get update is broken in my chroot and just hangs; will take a bit to figure this out
<pitti> apt is *still* hanging even in a completely freshly created chroot
 * pitti blames the new apt that landed yesterday: https://tracker.debian.org/news/728240
<pitti> mvo: ^
<pitti> mvo: apt-get update in sid hangs forever; I also tried with disabling the proxy, doesn't help
<pitti> RAOF_: I assume you tested this, so I uploaded it as _source
<didrocks> pitti: for -de, the hunspell package is hunspell-de-de, right? Seems there is no single -de one
<pitti> didrocks: yes, there's -de-de, -de-at, and so on
<pitti> didrocks: if you don't care, perhaps use the virtual hunspell-dictionary-de package?
<didrocks> pitti: to consider the locale installed in language-selector, it's depending on -de-de or something else?
<pitti> (all myspell/hunspell pacakges should Provides: hunspell-dictionary-$LL
<didrocks> /usr/share/language-selector/data/pkg_depends is mentioning only -$LL
<didrocks> ah, it's a provide
<didrocks> how does language-selector choose which one to install then?
<didrocks> (when it's not present)
<didrocks> wa::libreoffice-common:hunspell-
<pitti> I think that just doesn't work with this case
<pitti> it needs special cases like the myspell-* ones, or move to the provides:
<didrocks> ah, so seems there is abug here :)
<pitti> hm, or perhaps it does -- I do have hunspell-de-de installed
<pitti> didrocks: maybe it tries -ll and -ll-cc
<didrocks> would make sense
<pitti> $ check-language-support --show-installed -l de
<pitti> firefox-locale-de gimp-help-de hunspell-de-at hunspell-de-ch hunspell-de-de hyphen-de language-pack-de language-pack-gnome-de libreoffice-help-de libreoffice-l10n-de mythes-de mythes-de-ch poppler-data wngerman wogerman wswiss
<pitti> didrocks: ah, it installs all of them :)
<mvo> pitti: oh?
<didrocks> ahah :)
<didrocks> maybe something we should fix?
<pitti> mvo: both my existing sid schroot and my freshly created one hang eternally with apt-get
 * didrocks is trying to readd locales to the CD, unsure we can readd all cc
<mvo> pitti: what environemnt is that ? i.e. how can I reproduce?
<mvo> pitti: (the apt hang)
<pitti> didrocks: well, we don't choose country in the installer, nor in language-selector; the "region" you select just determines date format etc.
<pitti> didrocks: not sure whether there's something to "fix"?
<didrocks> yeah, hence the "swiss"
<didrocks> hum
<pitti> mvo: my normal xenial box, and "mk-sbuild --name=sid sid"
<mvo> pitti: *ick* let me try whats going on, I did not see that in my schroot when testing yesterday
<didrocks> let's do a simple case first, count how much space this takes on the live and recheck
<pitti> mvo: I am running apt-cacher-ng, but it is hanging with -o acquire::http::proxy=no-cache too
<pitti> mvo: let me try with disabling acng completely
<mvo> pitti: thanks, I'm on it thats pretty scary
<mvo> pitti: anything else unusual ? proxy or something?
<pitti> mvo: apart from acng, can't think of anything; company VPN maybe, but that shouldn't cover ftp.debian.org
<mvo> pitti: any change if you disable the proxy? aha, apparently not
<mvo> pitti: can you run -o Debug::acquire::http=1 -o Debug::pkgAcquire::worker=1 ?
<pitti> mvo: I'm re-mk-sbuilding with disabling proxy in my host apt config
<pitti> mvo: will do as soon as I get a chroot back (I deleted the old one, as it's not really precious)
<pitti> mvo: hm, doesn't happen in a dist-upgraded squeeze
<pitti> (with proxy and withou)
<pitti> although that's a tarball schroot, sid is  a directory one; that might also be a factor (overlayfs strangeness)
<pitti> mvo: yep, debootstrap hanging without proxy
<pitti> mvo: http://paste.ubuntu.com/13524595/
<pitti> "wget -O- -q http://httpredir.debian.org/debian/dists/sid/InRelease" works fine, so it's not on the httpredir end
<pitti> mvo: should I have libapt-inst1.5 installed? because I don't, only libapt-pkg5.0:amd64 and of course apt
<pitti> hm, no, I dpkg -i'd libapt-inst2.0_1.1_amd64.deb and it doesn't help
<mvo> pitti: 0% [Working] <- http:400%20URI%20Failure%0aURI:%20<UNKNOWN>%0aMessage:%20No%20user%20_apt,%20can%20not%20drop%20rights
<mvo> pitti: that looks suspicious, do you have the "_apt" user in the chroot?
<pitti> mvo: no, I don't
<mvo> pitti: this is a apt bug on multiple levels, i.e. the user should be there and if its not there it should not fail like this
<pitti> mvo: schroot copies passwd from the host by default, so I suppose it might overwrite the _apt user from teh chroot
<pitti> mvo: mk-sbuild likely does the same
<pitti> mvo: does "mk-sbuild sid" work for you on a system without the _apt user (i. e. ubunt)?
<pitti> mvo: also, I don't think it's a good idea to rely on non-static system users for debootstrap?
<pitti> mvo: perhaps apt could run the http processes as user "daemon", "sys", or "nobody"?
<mvo> pitti: I'm looking into it now, it should definitely not fail in the first place if the user is not there
<pitti> mvo: so that explains why it works in a dist-upgraded env, but not with mk-sbuild or schroot
 * pitti files an RC bug
<mvo> pitti: please do, thank you
<pitti> mvo: debian bug 806406 -- thanks for looking into it!
<ubot5> Debian bug 806406 in apt "1.1 regression: apt-get hangs forever, due to missing "_apt" user" [Grave,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/806406
 * mvo hugs pitti
 * pitti hugs mvo back :/
<Laney> yoho
<Trevinho> morning
<Laney> happy black friday!
<seb128> Laney, thanks ;-)
<seb128> hey Laney btw ;-)
<davmor2> Laney: You have just blackened my mood and it's friday but not I'm not happy ;)
<davmor2> s/not I'm/now I'm
<Laney> hey seb128!
<Laney> how's it going?
 * Laney snuggles davmor2 
<Laney> it's going to be okay
<Laney> go grab yourself a cheap sandwich toaster
<davmor2> Laney: woohoo cheap sandwich toaster to gather dust with the other crap we don't use in the kitchen woohoo!
<Laney> davmor2: maybe I can interest you in this jewel encrusted iphone case?
<Laney> JUST BUY SOMETHING FOR THE LOVE OF GOD
<Laney> THE ECONOMY DEPENDS ON YOU
<Laney> BUY THINGS!
<willcooke> thanks laney, that server worked
<willcooke> slow though
<davmor2> Laney: no I don't have an iphone :P
<didrocks> pitti: interestingly, it doesn't add -ll-cc for every sections
<didrocks> pitti: check-language-support -l pt -> doesn't list myspell-pt-*
<didrocks> only myspell-pt
<Laney> hey willcooke
<Laney> some kind of DOS going on I think
<didrocks> wb Laney, willcooke!
<willcooke> :(
<willcooke> why DOS freenode of all things
<didrocks> pitti: so, it does it for hunspell, but not myspell :)
<davmor2> willcooke: cause they think they are clever
<didrocks> pitti: oh, but the UI shows the -cc contrary to the command line :/
<didrocks> hum, no, I'm just stupid and missing --show-installed
<seb128> willcooke, because it's better to DOS it that to win3.1 it?
<didrocks> pitti: forget my remarks :)
<seb128> willcooke, ok, -> [ ]
<seb128> ;-)
<willcooke> :)
<Laney> thanks didrocks!
<pitti> RAOF_: colord-gtk_0.1.26-1_source.changes REJECTED -Z "Source-only uploads to NEW are not allowed."
<pitti> RAOF_: sorry, I'm afraid this has to wait until I get a working sid chroot back; or someone else can sponsor this for you, or you toss me a binary .changes?
<Laney> hey pitti
<pitti> hey Laney, good morning!
<Laney> is this "note: don't upgrade apt in your chroots?"
<pitti> didrocks: so all good?
<Laney> "?*
<didrocks> pitti: yep!
<pitti> Laney: in your sid schroot, yes
<larsu__> good morning!
<seb128> hey larsu! wie gehts?
<Laney> hey ho larsu
<larsu> morning seb128 and Laney!
<larsu> doing good, other than > 30s lag on freenode right now
<seb128> well it's better than not being able to connect
<larsu> how are you?
<seb128> which was the status half an hour ago :p
<seb128> good, it's friday!
<seb128> and I'm almost done refreshing/rewriting the nautilus patch, 3.18 update looks like it's getting there
<seb128> what about you?
<seb128> had a good train trip yesterday?
<larsu> which patch?
<seb128> the patches
<seb128> the stack we have
<larsu> ya, train was great (but a bit full)
<larsu> ah right
<seb128> like integration with the unity launcher to display a progress bar on copy
<seb128> they replaced the copy dialog by popover
<seb128> so the code totally changed
<seb128> so it was to be rewritten
<larsu> the menubar thing is ridiculous
<larsu> all the "view" actions are in a separate action group which isn't on the bus
<larsu> oh wow
<seb128> sorry about the menubar :-/
<larsu> we need some way to do this in gtk
<larsu> at least mid term
<seb128> yes
<seb128> but for this cycle it's only going to be nautilus
<happyaron> seb128: hey, I've read your msg
<happyaron> seb128: I'll upload that during the weekend, already prepared
<seb128> happyaron, hey, ok ... what do you think about wily?
<larsu> yeah I can forward the actions manually to the window
<larsu> which is what I'm doing now
<seb128> unsure why IntelliJ refuses to work with the previous version
<seb128> larsu, k
<larsu> but that's (a) a big patch and (b) a lot of work
<seb128> :-(
<seb128> sorry man
<larsu> thanks
<happyaron> seb128: I think SRU is a good option
<larsu> quiet here. Friday?
<willcooke> friday, Thanksgiving, broken Freenode
<larsu> it's thanksgiving?
<larsu> oh indeed
<hikiko> :D
<mvo> pitti: your bug is fixed, upload will happy later today
<mvo> pitti: thanks again for the really good report
<pitti> mvo: I saw, cheers! *hug*
<peter-bittner> seb128: I've got a question on application indicator menus. Via [1] I found a design document of the Sync Menu [2]. Is this being worked on?
<peter-bittner> [1] https://github.com/owncloud/client/issues/1181
<peter-bittner> [2] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SyncMenu
<seb128> peter-bittner, unsure, there was some work started on that some cycles ago but it stopped because we don't really have things integrating with it since u1 file was shuted down
<seb128> charles_ (or maybe tedg) probably know the status better
<seb128> they are U.S based and it's thanksgiving today though
<seb128> so maybe try again next week
<willcooke> *yesterday - but they're probably off for a long weekend
<seb128> willcooke, thanks
<peter-bittner> I understand, thanks. I'll go and ask them. It would be nice to at least have the OS/desktop infrastructure in place to modivate technology providers to implement their integration with Ubuntu instead of doing their own standalone software.
<seb128> right
<peter-bittner> modivate -> motivate
<anpok> peter-bittner: wrt to restoring window positions.. that you asked in ubuntu-mir .. there was a nitsplit and connection problems. Afaik nobody started that yet.. Some basic features needed for that are there.. but the actual position tracking.. serialization..
<anpok> *net
<peter-bittner> charles_: Are you reading this by accident?
<anpok> hasnt been started yet. So this task can best be helped by some one implementing it..
<seb128> shrug
<seb128> xnox, thanks for that gconf upload, but there was a patch to fix that issue in launchpad which already had a round of review
<peter-bittner> anpok: Can you provide some links (bug reports, documentation, ...) so that an outsider can look into the issue?
<seb128> xnox, and I guess you didn't upstream you patch? there is no header suggesting you did
<xnox> seb128, i did only a quick look at bugs and didn't spot anything.
<seb128> xnox, it's on the sponsoring queue even
<xnox> seb128, i would have thought this would have been fixed in wily, since e.g. ibus fails to build from source because of it.
<xnox> seb128, *sigh* sorry =/
<seb128> bug #unity apport hook
<seb128> ups
<peter-bittner> tedg: Are you reading this by accident?
<xnox> i simply quickly ported it whilst bootstrapping and uploaded =(
<seb128> bug #1519518
<ubot5> bug 1519518 in gconf (Ubuntu) "gsettings-schema-convert has syntax errors" [Low,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1519518
<seb128> xnox, ^
<seb128> xnox, do you plan to send the fix to upstream/Debian?
<seb128> and why is ibus still using gconf? ;-)
<seb128> happyaron, ^ can we stop that?
<xnox> seb128, i'ts not using gconf.
<xnox> seb128, it's using gsettings-schema-convert to create gsettings sceme from gconf. maybe they should stop doing it at runtime, and simply commit the generated gsettings schema and be done with it....
<seb128> xnox, it's having a gconf schemas and transforming it to gsettings
<seb128> right
<seb128> the convert script is meant to be used once for porting
<seb128> not to keep including the old format and generating the new one on build
<xnox> seb128, don't close bugs until they migrate to -release ;-)
<xnox> seb128, and i can comment myself when I screw up =)
<seb128> xnox, ok, I though you did it doko's style and just decided to not bother with upstream/Debian/pending work... :-)
<seb128> xnox, still let me know if you plan to upstream it, if not I can do it (though I would prefer if you do)
<xnox> seb128, can we kill gconf instead ?! =)
<seb128> xnox, we are trying to, not likely to be done for the LTS though
<xnox> $ reverse-depends -b src:gconf --list | wc
<xnox>     124  -> how?! why?!
<xnox> 22 in main
<seb128> Trevinho, hey
<desrt> good morning desktop folks
<willcooke> hey desrt
<didrocks> morning desrt
<desrt> good morning willcooke, didrocks
<seb128> hey desrt
<seb128> Laney, do you remember why we split the gvfs goa backend out?
<desrt> moin, seb
<pitti> because we have (or had?) an UOA fork?
<seb128> pitti, we have, but libgoa is on the iso anyway
<seb128> would install the gvfs backend create any user visible change?
<seb128> or is that iso space?
<seb128> I imagine we might have hold libgoa off the iso at some point
<seb128> but that's not true anymore
<seb128> we don't have a way to configure goa but having the gvfs backend on disk might just be a no-op in that case
<seb128> in which case I'm unsure the split still makes sense
<Laney> I kind of remember something to do with touch
<Laney> like not adding more depends to make removing it harder
<Laney> is there a problem?
<seb128> I'm also asking because the new gdrive backend which got included in gvfs-backends depends on libgoa
<seb128> so if the goal was to make -backends not have that depends we need to move it
<seb128> Laney, I found https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gvfs/+bug/1200827
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1200827 in gvfs (Ubuntu) "Enable GOA backend" [Wishlist,Fix released]
<seb128> but that states that gvfs-backends is not on touch anyway
<seb128> unsure if we had plan to maybe get it there back then
<seb128> but I think that's not likely
<Laney> what's going to provide a gvfs like feature in unity8?
<seb128> qt
<Laney> has that?
<Laney> +it
<seb128> I guess
<seb128> I would be surprised if they didn't
<Laney> why would we have ever cared then?
<seb128> I don't know
<Laney> indeed
<seb128> which is why I'm asking if somebody remembers :p
<Laney> anyway I don't care about undoing it with the next release or whatever
<Laney> can try harder if it becomes a problem
<seb128> I'm not strong opinion
<Laney> the old history will exist
<Laney> to bring it back
<seb128> I just noticed that 1.26 picked the depends on goa
<seb128> which makes the split pointless
<seb128> so either we move the gdrive backend
<seb128> or drop the split
<seb128> I'm going to open a bug about that
<Laney> you shouldn't ask me, I always want to drop deltas
<seb128> still unsure what option is best
<seb128> lol
<seb128> well, I wouldn't ask if I knew of a good reason to keep it
<seb128> I'm not pushing to keep deltas when they are of no use
<seb128> speaking of delta
<Laney> :>
<seb128> Laney, you said previous cycle you would get https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=783172 in Debian, is that still on your list?
<ubot5> Debian bug 783172 in evolution-data-server "evolution-data-server: Split out the GTK depends in their own binary" [Wishlist,Open]
<Laney> not actively
<seb128> k, I might just upload to Ubuntu meanwhile then
<Laney> is there a care factor?
<Laney> if so then sure
<seb128> yes
<seb128> we want gtk out of the touch image
<seb128> and there are talks about rebasing on xenial after release
<seb128> so I would that fixed before the LTS if we can
<seb128> +like
<Laney> ok sounds good
<Laney> if it was just theoretical then I wouldn't bother
<Laney> I wrote it down
<seb128> thanks
<Laney> man these iterations are painful
<Laney> hurry up and just work please
<attente> seb128: we're dropping gtk from the touch image?
<seb128> attente, we never had it here on purpose, we just have it because because things depends on it
<seb128> attente, we might decide to keep gtk once the mir backend is good enough if we have apps using it
<seb128> attente, also we are going to have it on pocket pc I guess
<seb128> attente, in any case goa depends on webkitgtk and we don't want that one on the touch image for sure
<Laney> apps will depend on it if they need it though
<attente> oh ok
<attente> can i still get a package review for https://code.launchpad.net/~attente/maliit-inputcontext-gtk/trunk?
<seb128> attente, did is piloting, maybe he can do that as part of his shift ;-)
<attente> oh ok
<attente> i guess it's going to be hard to test on the phone because of the current state of gtk though...
<seb128> well, you want packaging review?
<seb128> or code testing?
<attente> i guess just packaging review
<attente> i've already tested it on the phone, but i'm not sure what the process is to add it as a new package in universe
<seb128> found a sponsor to review/upload it for you
<attente> seb128: thanks
<seb128> usually open a bug with the packaging and subscribe sponsors
<seb128> yw
<didrocks> seb128: are you going to review nautilus' Trevinho's patch? (https://code.launchpad.net/~3v1n0/nautilus/add-timestamp-operations/+merge/278748)
<seb128> didrocks, oh, I can, I'm working on nautilus changes
<seb128> didrocks, thanks for pointing it you
<didrocks> seb128: no worry! thanks for reviewing :)
<seb128> Trevinho, is that still an issue with the new nautilus which doesn't have a file copy dialog?
<xclaesse> jjohansen, thanks, I'm on ubuntu wily, seems I have both
<didrocks> seb128: Laney: I guess you are reviewing https://code.launchpad.net/~larsu/gtk/black-flicker-part2/+merge/278432, right?
<didrocks> don't know if we should trusty this larsu guy :p
<Laney> didrocks: I haven't, feel free to upload it please
 * Laney is in the deep well of charms
<didrocks> Laney: ok, testing it first if seb128 doesn't handle it
 * Laney is pleased that he made this stuff appear on the queue ;-)
 * Laney tries a pit<tab> and fails
 * Laney cries
<didrocks> attente: see my comment on https://code.launchpad.net/~attente/unity-control-center/fix-ftbfs-inline-zoom-options/+merge/278655
<seb128> attente, do you build with another compiler?
<attente> i was just using gcc 5
<attente> but it behaves non-deterministically
<didrocks> weirdâ¦
<didrocks> I guess that doesn't worth an upload on itself and should be bundle with an u-c-c change, wdyt?
<seb128> +1
<attente> didrocks: i'm ok with that
<Laney> non deterministic compilation
<Laney> ?!?!?!?!?!?!?!
<attente> i am using a ccache though, but that shouldn't have an effect, should it?
<seb128> upstream did a similar change and their bug states is was failing to build with clang
<seb128> the change seems right in any case
<seb128> but the non deterministic is clearly bothering Laney :p
<attente> ok *phew* i was starting to think i was insane...
<Laney> doesn't it bother you?
<Laney> :)
<attente> it does now... thanks :P
<didrocks> I would say it bother more Laney than seb128
<didrocks> but that's my take of it
 * didrocks proposes a strawpoll
<Laney> well I'm not proposing to do anything about it myself to be honest
<Laney> so you shouldn't care that much about my level of botheration
<didrocks> I bother that you don't want your botheration to be taken into account though
<xclaesse> jjohansen, can I pass a dbus unique name (e.g. ":1") to GetConnectionCredentials ?
<larsu> xclaesse: yep
<happyaron> seb128: I remember it has stopped using gconf in favor of gsettings for a long time
<happyaron> but will double check next week
<seb128> happyaron, it should ship the gsettings schemas and stop doing gsettings-schemas-convert at build time
<didrocks> sponsoring: first error, fixing, ok, second, fixing ok, third one -> ok, let's the guy build his package before proposing a "fix" that could never work
<happyaron> I see
 * didrocks tried to stay politically correct on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/electrum/+bug/1499094
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1499094 in electrum (Ubuntu Vivid) "Please replace electrum with 'dummy' package in the repositories for Trusty, Vivid" [Medium,Incomplete]
<pitti> didrocks: well done
<pitti> didrocks: also, there's really little point in fixing vivid now IMHO, it's going to be EOL in less than a month or so
<pitti> well, a little more actually, so ok
<didrocks> pitti: agreed
<didrocks> seb128: want to comment on bug #1519187 ? ;)
<ubot5> bug 1519187 in policykit-1 (Ubuntu) "Sync policykit-1 0.105-14 (main) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1519187
<xclaesse> jjohansen, could you explain what format am I supposed to get from aa_query_dconf_data() ?
<xclaesse> jjohansen, what contains the array of entries?
<pitti> didrocks: yes to sync, that was just a misunderstanding in sponsoring; I uploaded the same fix to Debian and wanted to sync, but dholbach beat me to it
<pitti> didrocks: sso please go ahead
<seb128> didrocks, +1? ;-)
<didrocks> pitti: ah, making sense now, thanks !
<didrocks> larsu: your gtk change looks good, sponsoring, thanks!
<larsu> thanks!
<pitti> mvo: \o/ thanks for the apt upload
<mvo> pitti: yw, I prepared the apt ubuntu merge in git too, but maybe friday night is not the best time to do it
 * mvo will do it anyway
<pitti> mvo: if you are unsure, upload it and tag some open apt bug with block-proposed, so that it can run through CI but not land until Monday
<pitti> but *shrug*, I'm landing large britney changes as we speak, so yay for touching critical infrastructure right  before running off for the weekend :)
<didrocks> pitti: it's the *perfect* time for running off then!
<mvo> pitti: :)
<mvo> pitti: I need to land some snappy work now but once that is done I will see how much of the day I have left, I definitely want the new apt in, its really good. broke all schroots in debian but beside that its really good
<pitti> mvo: looking forward to it!
<xnox> mvo, is it an ABI transition for libapt?
<mvo> xnox: yes, abi and (very small) api
<Laney> woot
<Laney> mvo: this has the configurable acquire stuff we want for appstream right?
 * Laney screams at glib2.0/autopkgtest
<mvo> Laney: exactly
<mvo> Laney: its also amazing in other ways, its fantastic
<Laney> haha
<Laney> I love the enthusiasm <3
<mvo> Laney: no, I'm serious, its really cool. "apt-get install foo.deb" will work
<Laney> yeah, I remember David's talk
<Laney> and apt-get build-dep on unpacked packages right?
<mvo> by-hash, lots of smarts in the acquire, i.e. if InRelease gives you a not-modified it will not bother with any child url etc
<mvo> Laney: yes, that too
<Laney> |o/
<pitti> mvo: by-hash!
 * mvo is really happy about it
<pitti> gimme gimme gimme
<mvo> pitti: yes!
<mvo> pitti: LP needs to catch up :P
<Laney> oh man
<pitti> ah, so this is not the end of "hash sum mismatch"
<pitti> Laney: I just mass-retried these armhf failures
<pitti> Laney: but erk, I dist-upgraded the armhf boxes this morning, and apparently the new lxc/lxcfs etc. are rather unhappy :(
<Laney> pitti: I just looked at one and saw a systemd postinst(?) failure
<pitti> yes, apparently some dbus problem or similar
<pitti> they all fail the same way
<pitti> Laney: so leave these to me (Monday..), but e. g. https://objectstorage.prodstack4-5.canonical.com/v1/AUTH_77e2ada1e7a84929a74ba3b87153c0ac/autopkgtest-xenial/xenial/i386/g/gobject-introspection/20151127_113513@/log.gz is interesteing
<pitti> /usr/include/glib-2.0/glib/gtypes.h:423: syntax error, unexpected identifier in '  G_STATIC_ASSERT(sizeof (unsigned long long) == sizeof (guint64));' at 'G_STATIC_ASSERT'
<pitti> /usr/include/glib-2.0/glib/gtypes.h:423: syntax error, unexpected ')', expecting identifier or '(' or '*' or ';' in '  G_STATIC_ASSERT(sizeof (unsigned long long) == sizeof (guint64));' at ')'
<pitti> yummy
<Laney> haha
<Laney> that sounds real...
<pitti> Laney: so it's that (g-i), deja-dup, and these armhf failures
<Laney> desrt: ^^^^ does that sound like some recent change to you?
<Laney> (hi!)
<desrt> yes.
<desrt> what compiler is that?
<desrt> also, i think that was already fixed
<pitti> gcc (Ubuntu 5.2.1-23ubuntu1) 5.2.1 20151028
<desrt> nope.  i wrote a patch but it wasn't reviewed :)
<Laney> pitti: sounds like don't sweat retrying stuff for glib then :)
<pitti> Laney: I already did, and msot stuff failed again
<desrt> pitti: i'd like to know the exact combination of stuff that made this fail
<desrt> since normally this works fine with gcc
<pitti> Laney: lxcfs got upgraded in wily today; I'll downgrade, see if that works, and if so mass-retry
<Laney> this g-i one is going to be real
<pitti> Laney: if it doesn't work, I give up and we fix this on MOnday
<pitti> Laney: yes, but the failurs will affect pretty much all uploads to xenial
<Laney> Fix general problems sure, but don't worry about retries for glib alone
<pitti> desrt: are the package versions in http://autopkgtest.ubuntu.com/data/packages/xenial/amd64/g/gobject-introspection/20151127_114446@.log (this also includes a diff) helpful?
<desrt> i just pushed a fix to master
<desrt> i guess this is probably another case of weird -std=c__ flags
<Laney> apt-get source gobject-introspection -- look at debian/tests/tools
<Laney> echo "g-ir-scanner..."
<Laney> g-ir-scanner --include=cairo-1.0 --include=Gio-2.0 --namespace=Regress --nsversion=1.0   --header-only /usr/share/gobject-introspection-1.0/tests/*.h --output Regress.gir
<desrt> starting to get annoyed by the fact that every compiler we use supports features that we want to make use of, but some people intentionally disable those with -std= flags
<Laney> file Regress.gir  | grep -q 'XML document' || { file Regress.gir; exit 1; }
<pitti> Laney: so https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lxcfs/0.10-0ubuntu2.1 breaks this; downgrading to ubuntu2 works
 * pitti does that on all workers
<Laney> cool, thanks
<larsu> desrt: there's also --std=gnu* ;)
<desrt> the gnu ones are mostly sane
<larsu> ya
 * desrt ponders early lunch
 * desrt didn't have her usual morning chocolatine today
<didrocks> time for week-end, see you guys!
<desrt> didrocks: enjoy :)
<didrocks> thanks, enjoy your lunch desrt ;)
<seb128> willcooke, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-themes/14.04+16.04.20151127-0ubuntu1 ... well done! :-)
<willcooke> \o/
<willcooke> thx seb128
<seb128> yw!
<davmor2> willcooke: can you play an album in rhythmbox on xenial?
 * Laney wonders if he is allowed to answer that one
 * willcooke hasnt tried
 * Laney is playing Jagged Little Pill right now
<davmor2> willcooke: I just purchased the next track to tubular bells from 7 digital as part of the browser tests, and the track wasn't added initially, I had to remove the location in gsettings to fix that, but now it plays the first track and then plays fatboy slim for the second track
<willcooke> I gotta shoot, xmas lights switch on with the kids
<willcooke> let's pick it up again on Monday
<willcooke> g'night
<seb128> Laney, seems you are not :p
<seb128> davmor2, wfm, are you sure you don't have the random button selected?
<seb128> (the pressed/unpressed is not easy to see with our theme, known issue)
<larsu> hm doesn't look pressed in at all...
 * larsu is happy we have a new theme maintainer
<seb128> larsu, sorry for you, but notify-osd has a regression for your icon refactoring
<larsu> yay
<larsu> wait. un-yay
<seb128> it tries to load cover arts as icons
<larsu> what's up?
<seb128> like it states can't find .cache/.... in the icon theme
<seb128> try to play a song in rb from an album/song having a covert
<larsu> I don't have any music on my computer
<larsu> problem solved. NOTABUG
<seb128> lol
<larsu> hm not a problem in spotify
<seb128> reported https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/notify-osd/+bug/1520667
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1520667 in notify-osd (Ubuntu) "Try to load images from the icon theme" [Undecided,New]
<larsu> thanks
<seb128> larsu, try  $ notify-send -i /usr/share/pixmaps/language-selector.png "hey"
<larsu> seb128: the spec doesn't allow this
<larsu> throws a warning, but works for me
<seb128> it was working before your changes
<seb128> hum
<seb128> what notify-osd version do you use?
<seb128> it works if I downgrade
<seb128> and breaks if I use the current xenial version
<larsu> src
<seb128> is your warning about notification-*
<larsu> let me try xenial
<seb128> loading icon 'notification-/usr/share/pixmaps/language-selector.png'
<larsu> ah indeed
<seb128> looks like you don't have https://code.launchpad.net/~larsu/notify-osd/spam-a-bit-less/+merge/274382
<seb128> in your build
<seb128> ?
<seb128> larsu, notify-send --help says
<seb128> "  -i, --icon=ICON[,ICON...]         Specifies an icon filename or stock icon to display."
<seb128> the filename can't be fully qualified one?
<larsu> The "app_icon" parameter and "image-path" hint should be either an URI (file:// is the only URI schema supported right now) or a name in a freedesktop.org-compliant icon theme (not a GTK+ stock ID).
<larsu> that's what the spec says
<larsu> but apparently apps don't care (and neither does notify-send's help text), so let's fix that
<larsu> thanks for bringing this up seb128
<seb128> larsu, yw!
<davmor2> seb128: yeap double checked it
<davmor2> seb128: I double checked via the menu, how ever I think it might be the way the browse is set up, I'm digging into it some more
<larsu> seb128: pushed a branch (attached at the bug)
<larsu> and with that, I head off into the weekend. See you!
<seb128> larsu, thanks!
<seb128> larsu, have a good w.e!
<larsu> thanks you too!
 * seb128 should do that as well
<larsu> +1
<seb128> have a good w.e everybody, see you on monday
 * Laney tries ./deploy.sh for the 999th time
<Laney> everybody's gone!
<Laney> guys!
<seb128> Laney, I'm not!
 * seb128 spent the afternoon watching tennis while working so finishing some things, about to get them wrapped now
<seb128> good work team u.k btw, 2 - 0
<seb128> go Andy!
<Laney> the news mentioned something about the UK doing badly or something
<seb128> Laney, shrug, sorry it's 1-1, Andy won though ;-)
<seb128> Laney, the first game u.k was up to 2 sets to 0 and I got carried away :p
<seb128> (and lost 3 sets to 2)
<davmor2> seb128: Yay discovered why, when the music got re-imported it set up you've come a long way baby in the play queue, so after playing the first track flipped over to the play queue
<seb128> davmor2, k, good, at least it confirms album playing still works
<davmor2> Now I've cleared that off lets see what happens now.......next track \o/
<attente> seb128: does u-c-c deja-dup panel work for you?
<seb128> yes
<seb128> but e.u.c suggests it segfaults for quite some users
<seb128> I can't reproduce though :/
<seb128> mterry_ might know about it?
<attente> i reproduce it every time
<seb128> https://errors.ubuntu.com/problem/d0faa18652b68f4cd47c90a1cee56a3f9508cea8
<seb128> the reports are all amd64 and I'm on i386
<seb128> so maybe it's arch specific
<seb128> the package didn't change since wily
<seb128> so likely a glib or gtk update fallout?
<attente> could be, i tried it with wily's glib and the crash still exists
<seb128> hum, k
<seb128> if you feel like debugging it that would be useful ;-)
<Laney> broken for me!
<seb128> you amd64 users...
<Laney> http://162.213.34.169/logs/2015/11/27_1916.log
<Laney> it's aliiiiiiiiiiive
<attente> D:
<Laney> from juju
<seb128> wooot
<Laney> that is a good </week> moment
<Laney> happy weekend!
<Laney> probably sneak on to make sure the html output works
<Laney> but that will be some hours
<Laney> ;-)
<seb128> Laney, happy w.e as well!
<mterry_> attente, seb128: sorry, was afk
<mterry_> attente, seb128: I think I know what might cause it, will have a fix this weekend if so (it was fixed along with dropping python2)
<mterry_> Was an int to pointer bug if so
<attente> mterry_: ah, thanks! i guess it would explain why seb128 can't reproduce on i386
<mterry_> seb128, you're still on i386!?
<Sweet5hark> alpha1 pushed to prereleases, waiting for debian to tag a beta1 (as I'd prefer from a tag rather than a random commit on the branch). and with that, ...
<Sweet5hark> ... closing the week. Have a nice weekend guys!
<seb128> mterry_, yes, somebody needs to keep testing it ;-)
#ubuntu-desktop 2015-11-29
<denbeiren_> i'm running a file transfer from a livecd to my backuplocation, the pc seems to be frozen up
<denbeiren_> i can see the capslock led blink
<denbeiren_> screen is black
<denbeiren_> any way to revive the pc?
<flocculant> denbeiren_: h- this isn't a support channel - try #ubuntu :)
<denbeiren_> oh
<denbeiren_> so i should see this one as discussion?
<flocculant> no this is where the people working on desktop hang out and is like a desert during the weekend :)
 * Laney sprays sand all over flocculant 
<flocculant> I thought you might :p
<flocculant> on the plus side I grabbed the libgtk stuff from -proposed and I've not got 'normous grey borders anymore ;)
<renso> hi
#ubuntu-desktop 2016-11-28
<hikiko> hi
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<Sweet5hark> pitti: Orrr hell no, you will not, will ya?!
<Sweet5hark> bonjours a tous!
<pitti> Bonojur tout le monde !
<seb128> salut pitti
<seb128> hey Sweet5hark
<pitti> Sweet5hark: <checks date> not April first I'm afraid, so I'm serious
 * Sweet5hark hugs pitti.
<pitti> Ã§a va seb128, as-tu eu un bon weekend?
 * pitti hugs Sweet5hark back
<seb128> oui, trÃ¨s bon, et toi ?
<Sweet5hark> seb128: salut
<pitti> je vais bien aussie -- on a revu des amis de Dresden, jouÃ© du badminton, et la plus importante chose: le premier stollen !
<seb128> pitti, btw we understood why the packet took a while to arrive, you didn't write the "wp" part of the postcode, they work with 4 digits + 2 lettres and you only noted down the digits, so they sent it back to triaging site, it arrived with an extra sticker with the "wp" info
<pitti> ah!
 * Sweet5hark recently learned about that the pope gave explicit permission to saxony to use butter in their stollen after they asked about it. usesless facts 101
<pitti> seb128: I didn't have a zip code from you, so I googled for it at the post office and this was the best I got
<seb128> oh ok
<pitti> Sweet5hark: !
<seb128> anyway, it arrived at the end, stollen ftw!
<pitti> Sweet5hark: so this had been illegal for like 5 centuries?
 * seb128 hugs pitti
<pitti> seb128: so what is the full postcode?
<seb128> 2611wp
<pitti> ah, just that
<seb128> yes
<Sweet5hark> pitti: it was pope innocence VIII, so I guess it wasnt illegal for that long.
<seb128> Sweet5hark, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stollen#History agrees with you
<Laney> arrrrrrrrr
<pitti> heeey Laney, good morning
<Laney> hey pitti
<seb128> brrrr Laney
<Laney> how's it going?
<Laney> seb128: indeed
<willcooke> o/
<Laney> seb128: good day off / weekend?
<Laney> sup willcooke?
<davmor2> Morning all
<seb128> yes! got some present ideas, enjoyed the weather than started feeling like winter, had some nice food and relaxing time
<seb128> you?
<seb128> hey willcooke davmor2
<davmor2> Laney: man you and your street lingo bein' all down wid de kidz
<seb128> it's amazing how all you u.k people start your day in a few minutes range ;-)
<davmor2> seb128: I'm only late cause I had to set up my office again was at my mom's all last week
<seb128> not later than your other fellow u.k coworkers ;-)
<davmor2> seb128: normally though it's down to how fast your laptop starts up
 * Laney lives by the radio 4 pips
<willcooke> ha!
<willcooke> ditto
<Laney> seb128: was good, saw a friend on friday for bike ride and cake and climbing, then family at the weekend
<Laney> ended up going shopping on BLACK FRIDAY /o\
<willcooke> Laney, did you get to punch someone over a Bush TV?
<Laney> I took a cattle prod
<willcooke> Very wise
<Laney> actually it wasn't that busy at 9am when I went
<Laney> almost every shop had a BLACK FRIDAY WEEK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! poster up though
<Laney> oh
<Laney> huntingdon news
<Laney> aldi is opening this week!
<willcooke> I love Aldi
<flexiondotorg> Happy Cyber Monday desktopers
<willcooke> hey flexiondotorg
<seb128> hey flexiondotorg
<flexiondotorg> willcooke, Laney seb128 davmor2 pitti Sweet5hark hikiko Morning
<Laney> the first 100 people get some kind of prize
<willcooke> I splurged a bit at Amazon.  They had the Dash buttons (those little wifi connected buttons you press and they order stuff from Amazon) for 99p.  So I bought 6
<Laney> was trolling my mum to get her to go down at 4am
<Laney> O_O
<flexiondotorg> Steady on there willcooke
<hikiko> good morning all
<willcooke> Also - they had 4.99 off your first order with the button.  So I spent too long making a spreadsheet to decide if it was worth it or not.  And it turns out, even with the discount, Amazon is no cheaper than the supermarket.
<seb128> hey hikiko
<willcooke> But... I bought boy #1 some Nerf bits for Christmas, and they had the discount as well.  So in the end I bought 6 buttons for 95p
<seb128> willcooke, how do those work? you just press and it orders without you having to confirm? like if you set up one to order toilet paper and your kids decide to press it while you don't watch you end up with a truk of toilet paper at your door next day? ;-)
<willcooke> Exactly!
<seb128> lol
<willcooke> There are some safe guards.  You can cancel the order if you find out about it in time, and you *can* tell it not to order another one until the previous one is delivered
<willcooke> but you have to enable that, it's not the default (I think)
<seb128> it has potential for fun situations
<willcooke> I've given them reserved IP address and blocked them on the firewall.
<willcooke> So now I just listen for the DHCP request and trigger an MQTT event
<willcooke> but then I couldn't think of an actual purpose for them
<willcooke> meh, worry about that another day
<seb128> hehe
<seb128> willcooke, http://www.dashbuttondudes.com/blog/2015/12/11/26-amazon-dash-button-hacks
<seb128> just get one assign to "build that snap you are working on"
<seb128> ;-)
<willcooke> ah, nice one!
<willcooke> Make it pull from github in to LP and start building
<hikiko> what's the dash button?
<willcooke> hikiko, see that link Seb posted for examples ^
<hikiko> I saw it but I didn't understand: is it programmed already or the users hack them?
<willcooke> It's already programmed, you can't do much by flashing it yourself as it's quite locked down
<willcooke> so it's really only useful as a push button
<hikiko> yeah I see, it's only useful to place orders quickly :)
<Laney> make the kids have to press it every minute or else the wifi turns off
<hikiko> they reminded me of this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J691aLfkWP0 (10yrs ago video)
<willcooke> It's a shame its so locked down, the hardware is really quite capable.  I assume that the brands that have buttons are massively subsidising them and so want to make sure naughty hackers can use them as generic development boards.  Kinda fair enough
<hikiko> lol Laney
<Laney> for bonus fun make it a different one each time
<willcooke> :DD
<Laney> actually that could be a fun exercise game
<Laney> â â¡ laney mmxvi
<andyrock> morning all
<Laney> sup andyrock
<seb128> hyey andyrock, how are you? good w.e?
<andyrock> nothing special, had a dinner with canonicalers (?) on thursday but that not w.e.
<andyrock> you?
<seb128> w.e was good and relaxing ;-)
<hikiko> question on ucc:
<hikiko> I've put some debugging printfs somewhere but the message is not printed in sdout
<hikiko> I've checked the /proc/pid/fd/1
<hikiko> and it's a symlink to /dev/ptsN
<hikiko> which is the terminal where I started ucc
<hikiko> so the stdout is not redirected
<hikiko> why I can't see any printfs?
<hikiko> pfff :p ignore :)
<Laney> hikiko: ?!?!?!
<hikiko> Laney, pebcak
<hikiko> :p
<hikiko> wrong executable :p
<hikiko> well
<hikiko> not wrong
<hikiko> wrong u7
<hikiko> so most of my functions were never called :p
<Laney> heh
 * Laney keeps typing zesty instead of xenial
<Laney> :/
<Laney> downloading the wrong source, releasing to the wrong release, testbuilding for the wrong release
<hikiko> xD
<Laney> better than typing zenial that I was doing for a while
<Laney> actually it's probably not better
<Laney> since I could actually upload to the wrong place Â¬_Â¬
 * Laney goes to lie in a darkened room
<hikiko> lol I type that zenial too Laney :D
<flexiondotorg> Yep. That ^
<ricotz> Sweet5hark, hi, did you have a look at 5.3 beta yet?
<hikiko> omg chromium finished building
<hikiko> I was waiting at about 9hrs
<seb128> hikiko, did you manage to get building over several machine or is that a local build?
<hikiko> (1st build)
<hikiko> no seb128 chromium uses ninja :/
<hikiko> not make
<hikiko> so I couldn't use distcc as I planned
<seb128> hum, k
<hikiko> but ok it's the 1st build I guess next will be faster :)
<hikiko> (I hope...)
<willcooke> well done hikiko :)
<pitti> hikiko: would it help at all to do builds on a beefy cloud instance entirely, and just copy back the binary for testing?
<pitti> hikiko: and yes, well done taming that beast!
<pitti> (in the spirit of "my other computer is a data center")
<hikiko> pitti, I will investigate solutions tomorrow :)
<chrisccoulson> hikiko, 9 hours???
<chrisccoulson> how much ram do you have?
<ximion> Laney: re your call for a Debian infra test instance: yes please!! I wanted this for years (but so far the pain wasn't big enough)
<ximion> Laney: on another issue, did you upload the Xenial appstream fix already?
<Laney> hi ximion
<Laney> what test instance?!?!?!?!
<Laney> don't remember doing that ot it wasn't me
<Laney> and yes I did
<ximion> Laney: my bad, too many Ians :D
<ximion> and me reading stuff way too quickly before leaving work
<ximion> :P
<ximion> ah, okay
<ximion> Laney: Ubuntu users are the impatient breed ^^ (and like to spam you with "me too" mails so you fix the bug faster :P)
<Laney> ximion: yeah, but it just makes the Launchpad mailbox more unusable when multiplied over many bugs
<ximion> it's crazy annoying, especially after you already stated that you have enough information and are working on the bug
<ximion> but I also feel sympathy for them, afterall they are annoyed too :P
<willcooke> morning robert_ancell
<robert_ancell> willcooke, hi
<willcooke> alrighty, night all
<blater> hi all
#ubuntu-desktop 2016-11-29
<pitti> Good morning
<TheMuso> Hey pitti. :)
<pitti> hey TheMuso, how are you?
<TheMuso> pitti: Not too bad thanks, sorry to see you go, but change is not a bad thing.
<pitti> TheMuso: right, and I just feel it's necessary now
<TheMuso> pitti: Yeah I totally understand.
<Sweet5hark> moin
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<seb128> hey Sweet5hark TheMuso pitti
<pitti> bonjour seb128, moin moin Sweet5hark!
<Sweet5hark> seb128, pitti, TheMuso: heya, gang. looking out the window right now, seeing it probably cold af. not daring to open anything.
<seb128> hehe, it's -3Â°C here, starts feeling like winter!
<pitti> Sweet5hark: I did open the window this morning for a few mins, ccccccoolllld!!
<pitti> yeah, -3 here too
 * seb128 moves a bit closer to the heater
<pitti> you know, this has to end -- I'll spontaneously fly to, say, Sevilla next week!!
<pitti> oh wait, I already do, how nice :)
<Sweet5hark> -6.5 degree celsius here right now according to the interwebs.
<seb128> cooold
<seb128> pitti, holidays?
<pitti> seb128: yeah, a week of beer drinking; and I invited aaaaall my friends from foundations, CPC, etc. :)
 * Sweet5hark is congratulating himself to move to a new appartment that is almost a passive house (KfW70 standard) a month ago.
<seb128> lol, that sort of week, I see ;-Ã 
<seb128> ;-)
<pitti> nice opportunity to say good bye and dump some of my stuff into some other laps
<seb128> then you tell people that you are going for "work" right? ;-)
<pitti> Sweet5hark: nice! Lueftung und Waermetauscher?
<seb128> Sweet5hark, nice
<pitti> Sweet5hark: I never use the heating in my office either, but I'm just leeching heat from excessive heating from my neighbor
<pitti> (I suppose -- it never really gets cold in here)
<pitti> Sweet5hark: but we have such a modern flat in Dresden, and the heating cost is laughable indeed
<Sweet5hark> pitti: floor heating and excellent isolated windows. the proper thing to do would be to do a stosslueftung ~now for 5 minutes. Im not ready yet.
<pitti> Sweet5hark: open window, brush teeth, close window, go to kitchen to grab breakfast, all good :)
<Sweet5hark> alright
<willcooke> goodly moreload
<seb128> incoming batch of u.k desktopers!
<flexiondotorg> Good day
<willcooke> :)
<seb128> hey willcooke flexiondotorg Laney
<flexiondotorg> seb128, o/
<flexiondotorg> pitti, Sweet5hark Morning
<Laney> hey ;-)()()()(
<flexiondotorg> Laney, Morning
<pitti> OMG, not a double but a quadruple chin!
<pitti> hey Laney
<Laney> hey flexiondotorg, aloha pitti, moin seb128
<Laney> how's it going?
<flexiondotorg> Not bad.
<seb128> brrrrr
<seb128> but good otherwise
 * Laney can see the frost line on the roofs behind is following the sun
<flexiondotorg> Tonight I'm going to the first BaDhack, which I'm looking forward to :-)
<Laney> sounds BaDass
<flexiondotorg> Hope so :-)
<flexiondotorg> Hopefully the beginning of a markerspace/hackspace in my local community.
<Trevinho> uff, new google test broke unity again... wondering why there's no autopkgtest for these things
<seb128> Trevinho, hey, how are you? feel free to contribute one of those :-)
<Trevinho> seb128: hey, all good... you?
<seb128> I'm good
<seb128> I'm playing with the snappy content sharing / gtk
<seb128> if you want to use the yakkety gtk on xenial looks like you need to bundle libc as well :-/
<Trevinho> seb128: ah, good... That content sharing looks something nice!
<Trevinho> seb128: oh, really? different ABI?
<seb128> yeah
<Trevinho> seb128: shouldn't be ubuntu-core base always the same?
<seb128> it is
<seb128> but gtk brings in mir
<Trevinho> ah, right
<seb128> or libmircommon seems to want GLIBCXX_3.4.22 symbol
<seb128> which isn't in the xenial core
<seb128> oh well, let's start with sharing the xenial gtk
<seb128> that makes snaps smaller and work on the current  ubuntu-core version
<seb128> then we can look at having an updated stack and bundle more if needed
<seb128> but before that needs to go for some errands and lunch
<seb128> bbl
<Trevinho> yeah, fair enough
<Trevinho> seb128: is that covering also all the launching stuff?
<seb128> you mean? we already have a desktop-launcher shared part
<seb128> but no, just including content for now
<seb128> need to work with Didier then on updating the launcher if tweaks are needed (which is likely going to be the case for paths at least)
<seb128> but that's for later
<didrocks> you will need tweaks, I'msure :)
<didrocks> enjoy your lunch!
<Laney> snap snap snapppp
<Laney> seb128: can you remove xbmc-eventclients-j2me/zesty-proposed (NBS) and python-fitsio python3-fitsio/zesty (FTBFS, no rdeps) please?
 * Laney is trying to push through a big transition
<Laney> massive autopkgtest queue doesn't help
<Laney> meheheh
<seb128> Laney, let me have a look
<Laney> smoochies
<seb128> those are binaries?
<Laney> yep
<seb128> Laney, does it make sense to remove python-fitsio python3-fitsio binaries and not the source?
<Laney> seb128: those are arch specific binaries
<seb128> hum?
<seb128> you didn't mention archs
<Laney> oops
<seb128> do you want only the armhf binaries to be removed?
<Laney> /armhf
<seb128> k
<seb128> now that makes more sense
<Laney> yeah it only fails there
<seb128> right, I was just trying to make sense of the request, now I understand
<seb128> thanks
<seb128> Laney, kodi ftfbs on powerpc unsure if that's going to get in your way but mentioning it
<seb128> e.g deleting xbmc-eventclients-j2me isn't going to be enough to have it a valid candidate
<Laney> might do, want to see how it looks after this
<seb128> k
<Laney> britney is only complaining about that pkg
<Laney> i guess it will change to a different one once that is gone
<seb128> no
<Laney> yes
<Laney> missing build on powerpc: xbmc-eventclients-j2me (from 17.0~beta5+dfsg1-1)
<seb128> oh, sorry, I saw the message was different but had already close the page
<Laney> it says missing build instead of old binaries left
<seb128> right you are
<seb128> :-)
<seb128> let's see after the next iteration then!
<Laney> if kodi is still busted then it has no rdeps anyway
<Laney> ;-)
<seb128> k, next we might delete the ppc build from zesty ;-)
 * Laney mehs
<Laney> stupid broken tests
<tjaalton> Laney: gtk+? :)
<tjaalton> looks like it's holding up mesa
 * willcooke warms up his copy & paste keys
<Laney> tjaalton: no, dbus-test-runner
<willcooke> dingaling meeting time
<Sweet5hark> aye
<willcooke> #startmeeting Desktop Team Weekly Meeting 2016-11-29
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Nov 29 15:30:40 2016 UTC.  The chair is willcooke. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting 2016-11-29 | Current topic:
<willcooke> Roll call: andyrock, attente, desrt,  dgadomski, fjkong, flexiondotorg, happyaron (out), hikiko (out), laney, qengho, seb128, sweet5hark, themuso (out), tkamppeter, trevinho, robert_ancell (out)
<willcooke> Hi everyone!
<andyrock> Hey
<flexiondotorg> Hiya!
<qengho> Hi hi!
<FJKong> hi
<Trevinho> hello
<hikiko> hi:) +bye!
<willcooke> have a good evening hikiko
<willcooke> Right, since andyrock is here, let's get started
<willcooke> #topic andyrock
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting 2016-11-29 | Current topic: andyrock
<andyrock> 1. Windows list in the unity8 quicklists
<andyrock> 2. Updated some unity7 and unity8 old branches
<andyrock> 3. Reviews (Marco's branches and the high dpi one)
<andyrock> 4.taxes XD
<andyrock> Eow
<willcooke> :) thanks andyrock, and thanks for looking at the hidpi branch
<flexiondotorg> andyrock, What was the outcome of the HiDPI review?
<andyrock> I approved it
<andyrock> It works fine
<flexiondotorg> Perfect!
<willcooke> flexiondotorg, it will find it's way in to backports via Trevinho at some point soonish
<desrt> ((Sorry... my network connection chose this exact moment to start acting up.  Come back after?))
<willcooke> desrt, ack np
<andyrock> And the logic is mostly copied from gnome settings
<andyrock> So should be fine
<flexiondotorg> Thanks, andyrock. You'll see why I'm interested in a bit...
<willcooke> :))
<willcooke> #topic attente
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting 2016-11-29 | Current topic: attente
<attente> hey
<attente> currently fixing the mir backend upstream, it's kind of in a broken state due to api changes for gtk 4
<attente> attempted fixing the jhbuild snapcraft plugin on github-ci, but not sure how to proceed because the integration test requires network access...
<attente> also blocked on build breakage in content-hub due to the gtest regressions
<Laney> doesn't continuous build with mir enabled?
<desrt> (working again)
<attente> it doesn't seem so
<attente> the build is working now, but trying to run a gtk app with the mir backend just crashes outright
<willcooke> attente/laney ok follow up after the meeting?
<Laney> just a question, nothing further
<willcooke> oki, thanks
<willcooke> thanks attente
<willcooke> #topic desrt
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting 2016-11-29 | Current topic: desrt
<desrt> still working on dconf proxy
<desrt> got to the point where the proxy detects confined apps, looks up their "allowed" paths, compares this with admin lockdown, and computes a list of keys that they can see, and pushes it into the sandbox via the shared xdg path
<desrt> change notification is next, i guess
<desrt> but i need to clean things up a bit more
<desrt> that's all
<willcooke> thanks desrt
<willcooke> #topic dgadomski
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting 2016-11-29 | Current topic: dgadomski
<dgadomski> hey
<dgadomski> * back to working on bug #1550983 and bug #1598183
<ubot5`> bug 1550983 in virt-manager (Ubuntu) "Fails to start with "Couldn't open libGL.so.1" (missing dependency?)" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1550983
<ubot5`> bug 1598183 in gvfs "Operation not permitted while writing to symlinked fuse locations" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1598183
<dgadomski> * tried to work on bug #1589401, but in my team stopped experiencing it. Let's see how long that lasts
<ubot5`> bug 1589401 in NetworkManager "cannot view wifi networks after re-enabling wifi" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1589401
<dgadomski> eof
<willcooke> good stuff, thanks dgadomski.
<dgadomski> thanks
<willcooke> Speak to happyaron about #1589401 if needed
<dgadomski> ok, cool
<willcooke> #topic FJKong
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting 2016-11-29 | Current topic: FJKong
<FJKong> hi
<FJKong> bug fixing:
<FJKong> #898847 grig package has no .desktop file
<FJKong> #1587984 Gnome Software catalog entry missing for Grig
<FJKong> #1591112 Gnome Software catalog entry missing for Qtel
<FJKong> #1634226 Gnome Software catalog entry missing for D-rats
<FJKong> simple ones
<FJKong> firefox bug not finished yet
<FJKong> eof
<willcooke> cool, thanks FJKong
<willcooke> #topic flexiondotorg
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting 2016-11-29 | Current topic: flexiondotorg
<flexiondotorg> Hi
<flexiondotorg> Â· Contributed to the UbuCon Europe Trip Report.
<flexiondotorg> Â· Researched this weeks candidates for the Snap Upstream Blitz and updated Trello.
<flexiondotorg> Â· Read the Ubuntu Core 16 Specification for Classic Confinement.
<flexiondotorg> Â· Direct contact with HexChat, Mumble, Flowblade, ocenaudio, Gmvault and ZNC.
<flexiondotorg> Â· Provided assistance for the uGet, ZNC, Mumble, ZNC and HexChat teams on their road to snaps.
<flexiondotorg> Â· HexChat upstream now publishing in the Snap store stable channel.
<flexiondotorg> Â· Joined the Patch Pilots.
<flexiondotorg> Â· Reviewed "HiDPI Improvements" document from Ryan, David and Cassidy at System 76. Have a call with them tomorrow afternoon to discuss their plans and explain how they can contribute improvements.
<flexiondotorg> Â· Filed bug and assisted with improving the system-observe interface.
<flexiondotorg> Â· Testing the new Terminal.
<flexiondotorg> ð¬
<willcooke> nothing else?
<willcooke> ;)
<willcooke> thanks flexiondotorg
<willcooke> #topic happyaron
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting 2016-11-29 | Current topic: happyaron
<willcooke> 1. back from holidays, yay for getting some new lifelong immunity.
<willcooke> 2. network-manager 1.4.2 lands in zesty
<willcooke> 3. fcitx SRU for xenial
<willcooke> 4. opencc SRU for yakkety
<willcooke> #topic hikiko
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting 2016-11-29 | Current topic: hikiko
<willcooke> * Unity/Compiz: added Low gfx option in ucc, and a u7 specific gsetting,
<willcooke> added the necessary checks to see if the new or old low gfx is used, I
<willcooke> still need to add some code to load the profile dynamically (in progress)
<willcooke> * Chromium: set up the environment following the development guidelines,
<willcooke> added a mir platform in ozone, configured ninja to build that platform
<willcooke> along with the others (still studying ninja though I have to accelerate
<willcooke> the build somehow and fix some issues I had). Also, looked at the other
<willcooke> platforms code to understand how the ozone works and how to add the mir
<willcooke> code and dependencies.
<willcooke> #topic Laney
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting 2016-11-29 | Current topic: Laney
<Laney> â¢ Short week, was off Friday
<Laney> â¢ Finish off migrating to the new appstream-generator, now deployed, seems to be doing ok
<Laney> â¢ Push forward a big combined transition in z-proposed - lots of rebuilds, delayed by the big test queue backlog
<Laney> â¢ z-proposed autopkgtest fixes and investigation for various issues
<Laney> â¢ Rebase gst-good SRU after trumped by security update (second one after -bad last week)
<Laney> â¢ fwd new version of overlayfs-trash patch to upstream bug, upload to unstable/experimental/zesty/yakkety/xenial
<Laney> â°
<willcooke> thanks a lot Laney
<willcooke> #topic qengho
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting 2016-11-29 | Current topic: qengho
<qengho> * two days holiday. so nice.
<qengho> * in-progress: chromium 54 builds on all supported arch, but still sometimes SEGVs in blink code. Consulting upstream.
<qengho> * to-do: browser test snap to use xdg-open bridge to outside snap.
<qengho> EOF
<willcooke> thanks qengho
<willcooke> #topic seb128
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting 2016-11-29 | Current topic: seb128
<seb128> â¢ had friday off-work
<seb128> â¢ some archive admin work (reviews, deleted some binaries for transitions)
<seb128> â¢ otherwise most of the week was snappy focussed
<seb128> â catching up with ongoing/work discussions
<seb128> â helped with some debugging
<seb128> â started testing the content sharing interface and iterating on the gtk platform snap example, hit some issues trying to use the yakkety gtk stack on xenial so decided to change and start sharing xenial gtk on xenial and deal with the cross-version issues later
<seb128> </week>
<willcooke> thanks seb128
<willcooke> #topic Sweet5hark
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting 2016-11-29 | Current topic: Sweet5hark
<Sweet5hark> - pushed gbuild-to-ide/gbuildtojson fixes: building LibreOffice from kdevelop, Eclipse, Vim/YouCompleteMe, XCode, qtcreator, visual studio with autogenerated project solutions should work again and be more reliable and fastter (and have tests)
<Sweet5hark> - some upstream refactoring of (killing some SwModify)
<Sweet5hark> - various changes to get 5.3 beta to build as a snap: configure flags, updated patch queue (ongoing)
<Sweet5hark> - various admin bits: filed travel stuff etc.
<Sweet5hark> EOF
<willcooke> thanks Sweet5hark
<willcooke> #topic TheMuso
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting 2016-11-29 | Current topic: TheMuso
<willcooke> * Tried reproducing bug 1641954 without any luck, the reporter is working through with me to see if I've missed anything during my testing.
<willcooke> * More research on implementing input event processing for assistive technologies. I think the best approach is to start a discussion involving all steakholders, i.e shell/compositor developers for GNOME and KDE as well as the unity 8 folks, explain what we have now, and why we need to implement something, and brainstorm a solution thats cross desktop environment. I'm looking to get that discussion going in the next day or so.
<willcooke> * Started working on a plan to migrate various pieces of software that use espeak over to using the espeak-ng fork, which is actively maintained. Well, all software that is in main at least, which is not much. Debian has already made the transition, so it is a matter of filing a MIR for espeak-ng and adjusting packages appropriately.
<ubot5`> bug 1641954 in pulseaudio (Ubuntu) "Output switches from HDMI speakers to internal speakers on DPMS off" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1641954
<willcooke> #topic tkamppeter
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting 2016-11-29 | Current topic: tkamppeter
<willcooke> - cups-filters: Created "driverless" utility which makes CUPS auto-detect printers designed for driverless use (IPP Everywhere, AirPrint), so that one can set them up with legacy printer setup tools and the correct PPDs get auto-generated.
<willcooke> - cups-filters: Use CUPS' new Apple Raster support for accepting Apple Raster as input format (improve CUPS' emulation of an AirPrint printer so that Iphones can print on Ubuntu CUPS server). Before there was a half-baked filter based on reverse-engineering.
<willcooke> - cups-filters: Released 1.12.0 with most of the new driverless printing stuff.
<willcooke> - cups-filters: Created a test setup and sent appropriate instructions to Aveek Basu from Lexmark. Now he is testing Lexmark's printers.
<willcooke> - Common Print Dialog: More chat with Aveek Basu about how GSoC students can help us. He wants to find the students for us.
<willcooke> - IPP Everywhere: SRU to make Yakkety correctly support IPP Everywhere printers is in -updates now.
<willcooke> - Bugs.
<willcooke> #topic Trevinho
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting 2016-11-29 | Current topic: Trevinho
<Trevinho> Â· Fixed snapcraft parser to support wiki parts with remote parts
<Trevinho> Â· Added support to origin-{branch,commit,tag} in snapcraft remote parts
<Trevinho> Â· Fixed snapcraft infinite copy-loop when snapcraft dir is a sub-sub src folder
<Trevinho> Â· Proposed some upstream patches to Telegram to properly support appindicator
<Trevinho> Â· Reviews for unity-settings-components, and some refactor of the Ethernet item
<Trevinho> Â· Fixed an unity7 crash on lockscreen with a touch display
<Trevinho> Â· Fixed compilation of unity7 with gtest 1.8
<Trevinho> Â· Fixed an appmenu-qt5 crash when it's used outside X11.
<Trevinho> ... EOF
<willcooke> thanks Trevinho
<willcooke> #topic robert_ancell
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting 2016-11-29 | Current topic: robert_ancell
<willcooke> ings-components, and some refactor of the Ethernet item
<willcooke> <Trevinho> Â· Fixed an unity7 crash on lockscreen with a touch display
<willcooke> <Trevinho> Â· Fixed compilation of unity7 with gtest 1.8
<willcooke> <Trevinho> Â· Fixed an appmenu-qt5 crash when it's used outside X11.
<willcooke> <Trevinho> ... EOF
<willcooke> err
<willcooke> wat
<willcooke> try again...
<willcooke> - GNOME Software SRUs
<willcooke> - LightDM 1.21.1 released
<willcooke> - Simple Scan 2.23.2 released
<willcooke> - Working on LightDM / Unity 8 system snap
<willcooke> thats better
<willcooke> #topic AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting 2016-11-29 | Current topic: AOB
<willcooke> Anyone got any topics they want to raise?
<willcooke> Going in 10....
<willcooke> I'll be in the office Thursday this week if anyone wants anything sorting
<willcooke> Should be around for 1:1s in the afternoon, but not in the morning.  Will update those affected
<willcooke> If there's nothing else, let's wrap
<willcooke> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Nov 29 15:51:55 2016 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-desktop/2016/ubuntu-desktop.2016-11-29-15.30.moin.txt
<willcooke> Thank you all
<seb128> thanks!
 * Sweet5hark cant help find irony in the fact that chromium builds are delayed because of blink code (which started as joke originally).
<Sweet5hark> thanks all.
<qengho> Sweet5hark: It's not the funny kind of irony.
 * qengho brb
<Sweet5hark> qengho: the funny kind of irony was sold out in 2015. from 2016 on we will have to live exclusively with the nonfunny variant.
<Sweet5hark> (or adapt our concept of humor)
<Laney> seb128: ok, please kill kodi ;-)
<Laney> wait
<seb128> Laney, :-)
<Laney> NO
<seb128> just on powerpc?
<Laney> it migrated
<seb128> K
<seb128> great
<Laney> how did that happen?????????
<seb128> tradeoff
<seb128> something else in the universe got wrong
<Laney> I was looking at some kodi-whatever thing
 * Laney checks logs
<seb128> got->went
<Laney> the hand of god migrated it
 * Laney checks the rest
 * Laney cries
<Laney> there's another transition involved
<seb128> Laney, :--
<seb128> :-(
<seb128> so it didn't went it?
<Laney> it wasn't going to anyway because of waiting for tests
<Laney> but might have been ready for after that
 * Laney builds the 9999 packages
<flocculant> good job it's not balloons you're blowing up then
<Laney> going to let that grind
<Laney> laters
<willcooke> night all
#ubuntu-desktop 2016-11-30
<hikiko> hello :)
<hikiko> snow!
<pitti> Good morning
<hikiko> hi pitti
<pitti> hey hikiko, how are you?
<pitti> hikiko: seriously, snow in Greece?
<hikiko> yeah :) in my city
<hikiko> well, we have a lot of snow in greece (so many mountains) in the cities that are next to the sea it's rare :)
<hikiko> winter :D :D :D
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<seb128> hey hikiko pitti
<hikiko> hey seb128
<seb128> it's freezing in Greece now?!
<seb128> we are done with the warming, getting colder!
<seb128> :p
<hikiko> lol it's not freezing :) it's normal winter!
<hikiko> finally :)
<hikiko> it was very weird to have 15 and 17 degrees in november :p but anyway I have to stop the weather forecast :D
<pitti> bonjour seb128 !
<seb128> pitti, how are you?
<pitti> seb128: f-f-f-f-reezing! :-)
<pitti> seb128: nah, je vais bien, merci !
<seb128> lol
<seb128> it's still cold here as well but should get a bit warmer later on
<pitti> seb128: j'ai eu du pizza et de la biÃ¨re avec mon voisin hier soir, et on a vu "Star Wars V"
<pitti> un soir d'hommes
<seb128> like going from 0Â° to 7Â°C
<seb128> haha
<didrocks> some people prepare themselves for Star Wars 3.5 soon :)
<didrocks> hey pitti, hikiko, re seb128
<pitti> seb128: Annett was away on a christmas party with their colleagues
<seb128> didrocks, when does it go out?
<seb128> pitti, it's not even december yet!
<pitti> didrocks: oui, mon voisin n'a vu jamais Star Wars -- donc nous faisons Ã§a maintenant
<didrocks> seb128: mid-december I think? I don't even really know :)
<didrocks> ah, an illiterate, like I am! :)
<didrocks> (catching up is still planned though)
<seb128> whhhaaattttt
<pitti> watching the old movies is a bit boring indeed, but you gotta start there of course
 * seb128 needs to fix didrocks' culture next time we are romming
<seb128> rooming
<pitti> says the guy who never watched Star Trek!
<didrocks> :)
<seb128> one day
<seb128> maybe
<pitti> which clearly is the better of the two!
 * pitti ducks and evades the gauntlet
<seb128> I tried but speaking of nothing happening...
<seb128> it's even more borring than the old starwars
 * seb128 stops there before he crosses a line :p
<pitti> yeah, we got spoiled by the modern movies with fast cuts
<hikiko> hi didrocks
<pitti> seb128: well, I can understand it -- the TNG stories were great, but I do appreciate that the narrative style is a bit slow for modern taste
<seb128> right
<seb128> damn modern world!
<willcooke> morning all
<willcooke> c..c..c..cold
<chrisccoulson> hi willcooke :)
<willcooke> how's it going chrisccoulson?
<willcooke> I was going to ask you about you know what today, do you think it'll be done by EOY?
<chrisccoulson> willcooke, yeah
<willcooke> cool, thanks chrisccoulson
<flexiondotorg> Good morning seb128 didrocks pitti willcooke chrisccoulson hikiko
<willcooke> hey flexiondotorg
<seb128> hey willcooke chrisccoulson flexiondotorg
<chrisccoulson> nobody's using firefox, right? http://arstechnica.com/security/2016/11/firefox-0day-used-against-tor-users-almost-identical-to-one-fbi-used-in-2013/
<chrisccoulson> hi everyone :)
<seb128> how are you?
<seb128> chrisccoulson, says the firefox maintainer? :p
<Laney> brRRRRrrRRRrrrRRRr
<hikiko> good morning flexiondotorg chrisccoulson willcooke Laney
<chrisccoulson> seb128, I'm not the firefox maintainer :P
<seb128> who is?
<davmor2> Morning all
<chrisccoulson> lol
<seb128> hey Laney
<hikiko> and davmor2 :p
<chrisccoulson> seb128, it's you
<flexiondotorg> Good morning Laney, davmor2
<flexiondotorg> chrisccoulson, Have you spoken to anyone at Mozilla about snapping Firefox?
<chrisccoulson> flexiondotorg, they're doing it
<davmor2> morning hikiko flexiondotorg
<flexiondotorg> chrisccoulson, Oooh. Excellent.
<seb128> chrisccoulson, :-(
<seb128> chrisccoulson, so we get to pick between an outdated chromium or a non-maintainer-buggy-but-uptodate firefox?
<seb128> bah
<seb128> way to escape the question!
<seb128> oh, he's back
<seb128> chrisccoulson, so we get to pick between an outdated chromium or a non-maintainer-buggy-but-uptodate firefox?
<chrisccoulson> seb128, is firefox that bad?
<chrisccoulson> I probably should use it again really
<seb128> chrisccoulson, no, I'm enjoying it still, you are the one pointing the security issues and trying to escape maintainship :p
 * pitti gives firefox a â¥ -- works fine and it's our default browser after all
<pitti> I have occasional trouble with hangouts, but then who doesn't (most certainly it doesn't work perfectly in chromium either)
<seb128> no it doesn't
<chrisccoulson> seb128, oh, judgint the state of firefox from the current 0-day is probably a bit unfair - that's quite unusual, and there's a fix already ;)
<seb128> :-)
<ricotz> chrisccoulson, yeah fun :-)
 * ricotz likes firefox too, of course
<chrisccoulson> I did stay up until 3am this morning waiting for them to start builds but then got bored and went to sleep, so we'll probably end up being a few hours late with the fix
<chrisccoulson> hi ricotz :)
<chrisccoulson> hi pitti :)
<pitti> hey chrisccoulson!
<chrisccoulson> pitti, gutted to hear that you're leaving us :(
<chrisccoulson> although, it does sound like you'll be having a lot of fun :)
<chrisccoulson> seb128, anyway, we always have webbrowser-app if firefox and chromium suck ;)
<pitti> heh, I hope :) I'll just try it and see if it suits me, but for sure I'm looking forward to being able to concentrate on two or three projects for a change and lose all these little maintenance tasks
<chrisccoulson> yeah, I can imagine :)
<seb128> be careful to not be too nice and end up in the same situation where everybody needs you!
<pitti> yeah, I must learn how to say "no" :)
<Laney> "<manager> man, this new hire 'pitti' refused all my tasks"
<Laney> "* pitti drinks cocktails on the beach"
<chrisccoulson> heh
<pitti> ^ right, so my work day wouldn't change at all, just who pays for the cocktails!
<willcooke> Did someone say cocktails?  I mean, it's a bit early, but ok.
<pitti> willcooke: you didn't fully appreciate the concept of a world-wide distributed company yet!
<seb128> willcooke, I though you said you would be at the office tomorrow, not today? :p
<willcooke> haha!
<chrisccoulson> I'm expecting a delivery of beer this morning. I think it's going to be a challenge to make it last the whole day
<willcooke> chrisccoulson, do you use a subscription service?
<chrisccoulson> willcooke, I don't, although I have been thinking about doing the beerhawk subscription
<willcooke> chrisccoulson, I'll give you a Flavourly referal code.  You only have to buy one box and you'll get a tenner off.  Well worth it IMO
<chrisccoulson> oh fun, I've ran out of disk space
<willcooke> :/
<chrisccoulson> lol, I have a single source tree that takes up nearly 200GB
<hikiko> 200
<hikiko> 200GB?
<hikiko> wow.
<chrisccoulson> hikiko, it contains a few build directories at nearly 50GB each. I should probably think about deleting some
<hikiko> yeah but even 50GB is quite big :)
<chrisccoulson> hikiko, don't ever get dragged in to browser stuff :)
<hikiko> heh
<hikiko> too late
<hikiko> I am currently building gcc in 3 machines to have the same version same prefix and I am going to try distcc+ninja btw... I'll tell you my experience tomorrow (I am optimistic) ;p
<hikiko> :s/prefix/suffix
<chrisccoulson> sounds fun :)
<chrisccoulson> I might be interested in that work ;)
<chrisccoulson> (although, I can already build chromium fairly quickly)
<hikiko> chrisccoulson, how?
<hikiko> tell me the trick
<chrisccoulson> hikiko, 64GB of RAM and one of these - http://www.samsung.com/uk/consumer/memory-storage/ssd/950-pro/MZ-V5P512BW
<chrisccoulson> and I have a quad core xeon CPU in my laptop too
<hikiko> lol
<hikiko> ok
<hikiko> I don't have such hardware:)
<chrisccoulson> it still takes a while for a full build though. But not 9 hours :)
<hikiko> but if I combine the RAM+cores of our 3 computers here it will be fast I hope
<hikiko> yeah
<hikiko> the 1st time was 9hrs
<hikiko> and I didn't use all the cores
<hikiko> I just followed the instructions in the manual ninja -C
<hikiko> now I am using -j4
<hikiko> and soon -j 16
<hikiko> (with distcc)
<marga> desrt, I'm having a super weird issue dconf related: after years of our /etc/dconf/db/site.d/foo settings working properly, they are suddenly not applying.  If I look in dconf-editor, it shows that the default is the wrong value (i.e. false when it should be true). I expect it's something that we changed last week or so, but I can't figure out what could cause this, any idea?
<andyrock> morning
<willcooke> hey andyrock
<Trevinho> Laney: once andyrock ACKed the libappindicator change ;-), can you please check this https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2208 ?
<desrt> marga: huh.  nothing should have changed with this.  what does the commandline tool say?
<marga> which tool?  If I do dconf read or dconf dump, it shows the wrong value. But I have no way of knowing where the value is coming from.
<marga> desrt, as I said, I'm pretty sure it's our fault, I'm just at a loss as to how to debug where the problem is
<desrt> what release are we talking about here?  an LTS?
<desrt> or did you do a dist-upgrade?
<marga> Trusty
<desrt> ya.... really really no changes there :p
<marga> Freshly installed and updated to the latest security updates.  But I'm also seeing it on a different machine running a different release. So, pretty sure it's a config change on our side. :-/
<desrt> try: touch /etc/dconf/db/*.d; dconf update ?
<marga> desrt, I sort of tried that (editing one of the files there), but I'll try again.
<desrt> some text editors do unsafe file access (and as a side-effect, the timestamp on the directory doesn't get updated properly)
<desrt> a shockingly large number do this, in fact
<marga> I edited with vim
<marga> I'd hope it does this right :)
<desrt> vim does it properly, i think
<desrt> (and even if it doesn't, the .swp files in the directory would have modified the timestamp)
<marga> Alright, tried this, no change.
<marga> Is there any way I could figure out where the "bad" setting is coming from?
<desrt> do you have locks?
<marga> I tried reading the setting as root and it was also wrong. Also tried removing the .conf/dconf/user file.
<desrt> weird.......
<marga> desrt, yeah, the locks actually work correctly (i.e. I can't edit the setting manually). But I've tried removing them and the default is still wrong.
<desrt> what is the profile?
<marga> Ah! I forgot about that part.  Let me check, maybe we screwed that
<desrt> there were some changes in the last year or so to how profile got picked, but i don't think you'd be seeing those in trusty
 * desrt double-checks
<marga> So, the profile _should_ be the one called "user", that contains "user-db:user system-db:local system-db:site"
<desrt> ya... the profile selection stuff came much later than the version in trusty
<marga> But it might be that we managed to screw that, maybe. How do I check which profile I'm actually using?
<desrt> strace? :)
<desrt> is DCONF_PROFILE set to anything?
<marga> Nope
<desrt> so then the tool should try to open /etc/dconf/profile/user, indeed
<marga> Ok, I'll strace
<desrt> strace dconf read /whatever
<desrt> just to see what gets opened
<marga> Yes, open("/etc/dconf/profile/user", O_RDONLY) = 3
<desrt> (like, literally "/whatever" is a good choice, since there is no value here, it will result in less strace output)
<marga> open("/etc/dconf/db/site", O_RDONLY) = 4
<desrt> looks good...
<marga> Yeah...
<desrt> and the timestamp on 'site' is reasonable?
<desrt> it's a bit of a shame that you are working with trusty... the tool grew some features lately that would be useful here
<marga> Nov 30 12:12 /etc/dconf/db/site (11 minutes ago)
<marga> desrt, I have a more modern system as well.  Both are experiencing the same, that's why I blame our configs.
<marga> So, what are those fancy new features? :)
<desrt> sorry.
<desrt> so the main one is that you can list locks
<desrt> dconf list-locks / will tell you if dconf thinks that you have any paths locked
<desrt> (ie: this could be why user values are allowed to appear over system values that you think should be locked)
<desrt> (no output = no locks)
<marga> Ok, I had moved one file away (the one that locked the value that I'm using to track the problem).  I see the other locks with that. I'll put my lock file back in place
<marga> Yep, the locks work fine.  It's the values that are broken
<marga> From what I'm seeing, it might be that only booleans are broken.
<desrt> this is very odd.
<marga> Indeed.
<desrt> everything is x86 here, ya?
<marga> amd64
<desrt> right
<desrt> okay, so my advice: focus on a single key that is showing the problem
<desrt> make those separate file-db profile files, one per each layer (site, local, user)
<desrt> and query what dconf thinks each database says, and also if it sees a lock there or not
<marga> How can I query each db?
<desrt> write into a file called "myprofile" one line: "file-db:/etc/dconf/db/site" (or whatever single file you want)
<desrt> then do DCONF_PROFILE=/path/to/myprofile dconf dump /
<marga> BTW, I can confirm that only boolean values are affected.
<marga> ok, will do
<desrt> this is _really_ weird
<desrt> did you try ints?
<marga> yeah, I changed an int value and then queried it and it showed the new value.
<desrt> other option: email me a .tar.gz of your /etc/dconf (complete with both .d directories and the compiled db files, and the profiles)
<marga> I found the issue.  Someone created a second file that overwrote the values with wrong values.
<desrt> party :)
<marga> I was checking the file that I had created, and it had the right values...
<marga> Sigh
<marga> Thanks for your time :)
<desrt> just glad i don't have a bug to fix :p
<xnox> marga, you must love dconf a lot =)
<marga> xnox, I actually find the site.d thing pretty neat
 * xnox learned a lot about dconf from above
<xnox> mostly that i really don't want to touch it
<marga> :)
<xnox> marga, when i want to change the defaults, i upload the package into Ubuntu and dist-upgrade =)
<marga> Ah, but then you can't lock the settings away from the hands of misguided users :)
<marga> (we are not mean, we only lock some specific settings, like the screensaver lock)
<xnox> =)
<Trevinho> Laney: this is all yours now https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2208 ;-)
<Laney> THE BITS ARE FLOWING
<Laney> Trevinho: ok
<Laney> git bisect run you absolute beauty
<pitti> Laney: well, it's more like a meticulous craftsman with a big hammer than a fairy, but de gustibus non disputandum est :)
<Laney> de mortuis nihil nisi bonum
<Laney> pitti: fair comment
<Laney> my scripts are usually "git clean -fdx; make; make check"
<Laney> hardly delicate
<pitti> Laney: confused -- what is dead in that context?
<pitti> Laney: heh, my usual one is a bit more elaborate: http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/scripts/systemd-bisect-run.sh.simple
<pitti> here's to packages which can be sensibly tested with "make check" :)
<Laney> pitti: there's a play (forgot the name) where those two phrases are confused
<pitti> Laney: hm, curious; aside from being completely ignorant of Latin basics, it's hard to imagine how to confuse them
<Laney> a misquoting IIRC
<pitti> #ubuntu-desktop topics â is it Friday yet?
<Laney> http://www.cynic.net/~cjs/degustibus.html
<seb128> back to learn something fridays rather than troll fridays?
<pitti> Laney: ah, thanks!
<seb128> not enough larsu around nowadays :-/
<Laney> pitti has rectified that one too
 * Laney sobs
<Laney> seb128: (fosdem)
<seb128> right!
<Laney> nothing like a cold and grey weekend in bruxelelelelels to regenerate yourself
<seb128> :-)
* Laney changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | requests paired with a pink killer will be given preferential treatment
 * larsu waves to seb128!
<seb128> hey larsu! wie gehts? ;-)
<pitti> it's a larsu!
<larsu> seb128: too dark!
<larsu> otherwise great :) How are you?
<pitti> "pink killer"??
<larsu> pitti: hi! What's going on?
<seb128> I'm good thanks, sunny here today and not night yet
<pitti> larsu: eh? bright blue sky and sun here
<larsu> pitti: rain and dark here :(
<davmor2> Laney: man what did Pink do to you to deserve killing
<davmor2> Laney: She sings okay songs if you don't like them just listen to something else ;)
<Laney> davmor2: what happens at fosdem stays at fosdem
<p_d> hy, After installing/downloading virtualbox completely..it gives me an error - http://imgur.com/a/MbMsf ..how to resolve it "Running VMs found"?
 * flexiondotorg calls it a day
<flexiondotorg> Night desktopers
<willcooke> see ya flexiondotorg
<seb128> night flexiondotorg
<seb128> going to do the same here
<seb128> have a nice evening desktopers and see you tomorrow
<willcooke> night seb128
 * willcooke follows
<willcooke> London tomorrow
<willcooke> ta ta
<Laney> night too
<ximion> Laney: are you *sure* that you uploaded the appstream patch? Because it is nowehere to be seen in Launchpad
#ubuntu-desktop 2016-12-01
<RAOF> Is signond catastrophically broken for Google accounts on zenial at the moment? If I try to add a Google account I get a never ending stream of âWeb authentication for Googleâ popups, most of which go to wiki.ubuntu.com(?!?!), none of which work.
<RAOF> Sometimes they've actually got the Google login page, and going through that process results in *Google* thinking that I've signed in, and then a redirect to wiki.ubuntu.com.
<pitti> Good morning
<seb128> hey pitti
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<pitti> bonjour seb128 !
<seb128> how was basketball?
<pitti> comment vas-tu ?
<seb128> Ã§a va bien !
<seb128> et toi ?
<pitti> seb128: bien, et long -- on a jouÃ© pendant 2h30 :)
<pitti> I'm a bit groggy
<seb128> quite some exercice!
<Sweet5hark> bonjours a pitti, seb128, tous!
<seb128> hey Sweet5hark, how are you?
<Sweet5hark> good, good: finally handing over the old appartment today. Once that is done, the only pressing issue left is getting th elandline switched over to the new appartment (they botched that).
<desrt> good morning desktop people
<pitti> heeeeello desrt!
<desrt> morning pitti
<desrt> happy start-of-secular-advent/celebrate-a-season-of-fasting-with-a-calendar-full-of-little-chocolates!
<desrt> got your supply of stollen shipped in yet? :)
<pitti> desrt: in November already, from my parents; it's traditionally cut on first Advent, and we surely did so last Sunday :) (with our neighbors)
<pitti> desrt: and indeed! opened the first door on the calendar today!
 * desrt refuses to recognise that 4-sundays-before business. advent is dec 1 :)
<pitti> since when is the Advent time a time of fasting? that's like the worst possible time of year :)
<desrt> mascha is away on a trip, but she left me some gifts to unwrap while she's gone.  day 1: nÃ¼rnberger zimtsterne
<pitti> chocolate calendars, Stollen, the "Weihnachtsmaerkte" with Gluehwein, big family feast on the 25th, etc.
<pitti> yummy!
<desrt> man... there are so many *winter*markts in kÃ¶ln that my head is spinning
<desrt> (had a recent visit from a friend who refused to set foot in one unless we called it "winter market" instead... in the end, i think he ended up liking it quite a lot)
<desrt> oh.  weird.  i had been to 7 so far, so i assumed that there were like 20.  turns out there are 7.
<BigWhale> I come here after a long time and Ubuntu people are talking about chocolate calendars and mulled wine.  ... ... You people are still awesome!
<BigWhale> :)
<pitti> hello BigWhale! long time no see, how are you?
<BigWhale> Overly busy, but quite ok. :)
<pitti> well, this is #ubuntu-hedonism after all, is it not?
<BigWhale> :D Someone please feed me grapes.
<desrt> i prefer to acknowledge it for the paganism that is surely is
<Laney> moins
<Laney> RAOF: not seen that myself - best to ask mardy
<davmor2> Morning all
<desrt> Laney, davmor2: good morning!
<Laney> greetings desrt
<davmor2> how do desrt
<Laney> how's your deutsch these days?
<desrt> not good
<seb128> hey desrt BigWhale Laney
<desrt> been too busy to practise very much :(
<Laney> oh, forgot to reply to seb128, how rude
 * Laney sulks
<davmor2> Laney: man what did you do to seb128 he just isn't talking to you at all now ;)
<Laney> hope he didn't fall in the canal again :(
<seb128> lol
<seb128> no, but I already said hello, need to wait tomorrow for the next chance!
<seb128> ;-)
<hikiko> distcc works :)
<pitti> hikiko: oh, congrats! so the savings actually overcompensate network latency?
<pitti> but I suppose chromium is lots of C++ which is achingly slow, so it actually might
<hikiko> pitti, when I build compiz it takes about half time (documentation says 3 times, but ok)
<hikiko> I haven't tried on chromium yet
<flexiondotorg> Belated good morning desktopers
<flexiondotorg> I'm in that there London having office inductions and stuff.
<Sweet5hark> yay, libreoffice 5.3 beta1 snap starts to build now!
<Sweet5hark> noes, libreoffice 5.3 beta 1 snap fails to build because of some icu symbol madness!
<Sweet5hark> hello SNAFU my old friend
<hikiko> pitti, timing :D
<hikiko> it was tricky on chromium
<hikiko> I had to disable clang and change the default compiler because ninja can't find the gcc version that is used by distcc :p
<ricotz> Sweet5hark, hi, I am going to copy 5.2.4~rc1 to pre-releases ppa later
<ricotz> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libreoffice/+bug/1646025
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1646025 in libreoffice (Ubuntu) "libreoffice 5.1.6 for xenial" [Undecided,Confirmed]
 * Laney cries
<Laney> I'm ending up fixing half of proposed
 * Laney goes for ragelunch
<davmor2> Laney: you don't want to lunch on rage it's not very filling, try food instead, just sayin'
<seb128> Laney, enjoy lunch, let me know if you need help with that transition I can look at some build issues or such
 * Sweet5hark wonders if this is an opportunity and invitation to shadow-break the other half of proposed ...
<Sweet5hark> "Your CI did not see me breaking anything that wasnt broken before, therefore I am an innocent professional."
 * Sweet5hark nods.
<kenvandine> attente, the gtest fix for content-hub landed yesterday
<kenvandine> attente, can you merge trunk into your branch?
<kenvandine> attente, it will conflict... i'm sure :/
<attente> kenvandine: sure, thanks
<seb128> Trevinho, attente, hey, I'm catching up with that CSD options discussions ... would the mir-preferred solution of a surface handled by the server allow custom widgets?
<Trevinho> seb128: mh, yeah... Of course... You add whathever you want to the banner, but you've to reserve an area for the server-widgets (WM buttons)
<seb128> Trevinho, then you loose the consistency argument ... what's the point then doing it server side?
<Trevinho> seb128: did you see the doc? Baiscally being able to close the window when it hangs, or when there's a malicious client who hides these buttons.
<seb128> seems like lot of work for little benefit
<seb128> yes I read it
<seb128> but I was unsure to understand why we think those are so much better still, even after reading
<seb128> seems like the original argument was visual consistency
<Trevinho> seb128: yeah, well... also there are cases where we want to hide these. Or where we want to embed them to the panel
<Trevinho> when maximized for example
<seb128> then what do you do for apps with custom widgets in the decoration?
<Trevinho> Also we'd like to embed the app widgets to the panel, not only the WM buttons (when in banner mode)
<seb128> not convinced that would look right but alright
<seb128> Trevinho, thanks for replying :-)
<Trevinho> seb128: yeah, me neither... I whish you joined the discussions about this at the sprint, but me and attente were the only ones (and /me being a little critic about the fact we could achieve this, knowing the past)
<attente> Trevinho: seb128: #gtk+
<Trevinho> But... seb128/attente I agree that we could just contribute to gtk so that the widgets added to the headerbar would be moved to a different banner surface (if the backend supports it, otherwise falling back to default)...
<Trevinho> attente: ok
<xnox> is the world on fire in zesty?
<attente> seb128: Trevinho: ok, so we can probably make some changes as long as they only affect mir basically
<attente> seb128: Trevinho: we also make sure that it's only in gdk and not too much in gtk
<Trevinho> attente: mh, well, not sure that is the best thing for us... But ok...
<seb128> attente, yeah, I was reading #gtk+
<seb128> xnox, it's zesty who knows
<xnox> seb128, i'm getting segfaults from Xvfb...
<xnox> i think
<seb128> I don't know about that, maybe tjaalton does?
<tjaalton> nope
<tjaalton> I mean, it's something else most likely, xserver is the same version in xenial to zesty
<xnox> right, i recall claims that glibc broke the world.
<xnox> i'll try building ubiquity without zesty-proposed.
<pitti> we've seen some segfaults in gtk too
<pitti> please collect facts in bug 1646064
<ubot5> bug 1646064 in glibc (Ubuntu) "investigate autopkgtest regressions in 2.24-7ubuntu1" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1646064
<seb128> izgtkbog?
<pitti> izg*bog
<Laney> seb128: cheers
<xnox> it builds fine in zesty without -proposed. i'll try to pull only glibc from proposed to see if that's the badger.
 * Laney hears "that's the badger" in Q_'s voice
<Laney> oh debconf
<seb128> Trevinho, to be able to move the decorations and the eventual widgets from the titlebar in different position it means you wouldn't need the decoration to be 1 banner surface but different surfaces next to each others? or one surface but do trick to be able to pack things properly while letting the controls to be added later in some empty space?
<attente> seb128: it's mostly going to be up to gtk to determine how the widgets are packed in the header bar
<seb128> attente, right, but does that include the wm controls? or is that up to the client or backend to let space for those?
<attente> i think the problem there is that the csd wm controls are decided by gtk and the app
<attente> if u8 wants to draw its own, then the mir backend needs to know information like "should i show the csd wm controls?"
<seb128> yeah, but from Trevinho said earlier it seems like the unity8 team doesn't want the application to be able to decide about those
<attente> the api is already there
<Trevinho> seb128: an app can say it can't be minimized or maximized, but not avoid to be closed... In theory.
<Trevinho> seb128: actually we could instead allow it, and just use other elements (launcher/spread) to force close, in case it's needed
<seb128> that's what we do in u7 today...
<attente> anyways, gtk is pretty clear about this. the shell can specify the default decoration layout, but in the end it's always the application having the final say about what appears in the header bar
 * Sweet5hark is currently in a LibreOffice online document with some editing call minutes with 20 people at the same time. It works.
<Sweet5hark> s/some editing/heavy concurrent editing/
<seb128> Trevinho, did you see the comment in https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/1635577/comments/19 which describe a leak in ups?
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1635577 in unity (Ubuntu) "memory leak in unity-panel-service" [High,Triaged]
<attente> seb128: do you think it would be possible to backport bubblewrap to xenial?
<attente> i guess that's a better question for -devel...
<seb128> attente, I don't know
<seb128> I've no idea what it requires from the system to work
<seb128> it doesn't seem to need a lot so would probably be possible, it would probably be useful to have there ... do you need it for something? is that for the jhbuild snap thing?
<attente> seb128: yeah, it's needed as a dependency there
<willcooke> night all
<attente> kenvandine: hey, sorry it took so long. i merged trunk: https://code.launchpad.net/~attente/content-hub/content-hub-glib-2/+merge/311621
<kenvandine> attente, thx
<attente> kenvandine: actually i saw something nitpicky i might fix quickly
<kenvandine> ok
<attente> kenvandine: ok, pushed
<kenvandine> cool, thx
<Trevinho> seb128: thanks, I did got the email, and it was in the top of my stack, but didn't read it yet
<seb128> Trevinho, yw!
<seb128> have a good evening desktopers
<seb128> see you tomorrow
#ubuntu-desktop 2016-12-02
<pitti> Good morning
<seb128> hey pitti
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<pitti> bonjour seb128 !
<seb128> happy friday!
<seb128> how are you?
<pitti> seb128: I'm great, thanks! how about yourself?
<pitti> looking forward to the weekend
<seb128> I'm good, thanks!
<pitti> Annett and I will meet StevenK in Nuernberg
<seb128> same here ;-)
<seb128> do you have plans?
<seb128> oh, say hello from me then
<pitti> I will!
<pitti> and on Sunday I'll fly to $warm_place \o/
<pitti> (Sevilla, for the core sprint)
<seb128> 19Â°C there, that's alright
<didrocks> hey pitti! re seb128
<didrocks> waow, summer/spring soon for pitti :)
<pitti> bonjour didrocks !
<pitti> didrocks: yeah, we'll be eating stollen in the sun!
<flocculant> with brandy ...
<didrocks> heh, sounds nice :)
<didrocks> eating stollen in any condition is nice :)
<seb128> wwhaatt
<seb128> no, it's wrong, you don't eat stollen when it's warm
<seb128> it's like mulled wine
<seb128> works only when you need to fight the cold weather
<andyrock> Morning
<willcooke> morning all
<willcooke> how do I report a spam user?  Getting msgs
<seb128> hey andyrock willcooke
<Laney> amoin moin
<seb128> oh, early Laney!
<seb128> hey Laney
<seb128> willcooke, unsure about spam, maybe #ubuntu-irc knows?
<willcooke> thanks seb128
<seb128> do you speak about irc spam?
<seb128> or launchpad?
<willcooke> just googling it now
<willcooke> irc
<seb128> k
<willcooke> I'm getting dm'd
<willcooke> it's stopped now
<seb128> I think there is an admin channel but don't remember which one
<willcooke> gah duckduckgo is annoyingly bad for this
 * willcooke reverts to actual google for his googling 
<Laney> hey seb128
<Laney> how are you?
<seb128> good! it's friday & sunny & I've a tennis match tonight
<davmor2> Morning all
<seb128> how are you?
<Laney> pretty good
<Laney> no sun though
<Laney> went to climbing and a new micro pub/bakery last night
<willcooke> hey Laney davmor2
<seb128> nice! and any plan for the w.e yet?
<Laney> sup willcooke
<Laney> how was london?
<willcooke> Was nice to see real people again :)
<Laney> was there some event?
<davmor2> morning willcooke
<Laney> seb128: going to a birthday party, probably go to the allotment if it's not raining ...
<Laney> ...
<Laney> last free weekend of the year :-o
<willcooke> nah, I wanted to chat to a few people and work with p_opey on creating a snap
<seb128> did you make a good one? ;-)
<willcooke> no
<seb128> :-(
<willcooke> I gave up around 6pm and went for a ber
<willcooke> beer
<seb128> wash out the failure at the pub
<seb128> I see
<willcooke> ha
<seb128> good way to deal with it ;-)
<davmor2> willcooke: well it was popey there was bound to be some failure ;)
<willcooke> happyaron, Chinese New Year is awesome, having to work Saturday and Sunday, less so :)
<seb128> do they have to do that?
<happyaron> yep
<happyaron> it's a so called 7-day holidays, but 2 days are swapped from Saturday and Sunday
<seb128> Laney, is bug #1626233 something you are looking at? nautilus upstream asked me the status saying that they talk to somebody from Canonical about it before (they didn't remember who though but I assume it was you?)
<ubot5> bug 1626233 in nautilus (Ubuntu) "nautilus crashed with SIGSEGV in nautilus_directory_get_file_list (due to the typeahed ubuntu changes)" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1626233
<seb128> I've not been following the 3.20 update issues much so I didn't know but I said I would ask ... there we are ;-)
<seb128> happyaron, I see, still good to have a week off work! oh, and hey btw ;-)
<Laney> seb128: doesn't ring any bells
<seb128> k
<seb128> it might have been jbicha then
<seb128> (they said later they though he was working for Canonical)
 * seb128 tags it as rls-z-incoming
<seb128> Laney, csoranio said it might be tricky to update that patch to work properly with the new codebase, we should maybe just drop it and see how it goes with users?
<seb128> do you have an opinion on that?
<Laney> I don't want to maintain patches like that if I can help it, but people were loud last time
<Laney> I'd dig up the contributor and ask if they want to do it
<seb128> thanks
<seb128> well apparently somebody updated the patch enough that it applies and build, it's just not working/hitting a segfault
<Laney> Yes I understand
<flexiondotorg> Morning Laney seb128 willcooke davmor2 happyaron andyrock
<davmor2> and a partridge on a pear tree
<willcooke> hey flexiondotorg
<seb128> hey flexiondotorg, how are you?
<davmor2> morning flexiondotorg
<flexiondotorg> seb128, All good thanks.
<willcooke> Trello is down...... nooooooooooooooooo
<Tm_T> topyli is lying, I don't fight wolfes, I might fight for them though
<Tm_T> ...aand wrong channel (:
<willcooke> :D
<davmor2> willcooke: it's like the voices of a million developers cried out at once and then were gone
<willcooke> ha
<willcooke> they all cried out "yay"
<Laney> Tm_T: playing werewolf?
<mitya57> Trevinho, hi!
<Trevinho> mitya57: hey
<mitya57> While looking at bug 1635577, I found this line in libindicator which probably hides the old item: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~indicator-applet-developers/libindicator/trunk.16.10/annotate/head:/tools/indicator-loader.c#L172
<ubot5> bug 1635577 in unity (Ubuntu) "memory leak in unity-panel-service" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1635577
<Tm_T> Laney: no, just discussing where we live, ubuntu community is vast (:
 * Trevinho checks
<Trevinho> mitya57: thanks for that debugging work, though!
<mitya57> And it looks like in https://code.launchpad.net/~charlesk/libindicator/lp-1045372/+merge/123876 it was changed on purpose from "remove" to "hide".
<mitya57> So if we change it back to "remove" we need to make sure we don't reintroduce bug 1045372
<ubot5> bug 1045372 in libindicator (Ubuntu) "libreoffice unity menu bars greyed out after opening any dialog or switching window" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1045372
<mitya57> Trevinho, oh, and thanks for adding my MP to your ticket :)
 * Sweet5hark is still amazed by his experience with using LibreOffice online for the first time "in production".
<Sweet5hark> 20 people concurrently writing call minutes in one doc and it just kept going.
<Trevinho> mitya57: np
<seb128> Sweet5hark, like on the uds gobby time? ;-)
<Sweet5hark> seb128: yeah, our calls are a bit like UDS sessions in that. we used etherpad before, but now tried a fullblown LibreOffice for the first time.
<seb128> Sweet5hark, how is it working? there is a libreoffice server side than somebody needs to host I guess?
<Sweet5hark> seb128: yes, its currently hosted by collabora.
<seb128> interesting
<seb128> do they do free hosting?
<seb128> like can anyone use their server?
<Sweet5hark> seb128: for TDF, yes ;)
<seb128> lol, I see
<Laney> is it in the browser?
<Laney> or the app(s) connect to the server?
<Trevinho> mitya57: sooooo..... Mhmh, well that libindicator thing doesn't seem too wrong to me, unless the indicator actually remove the items at a given point...
<Trevinho> mitya57: in UPS I don't think we do anything special for that, so it might be more related to some lib we depend on...
<mitya57> Trevinho, so does removing items seem wrong to you?
<Trevinho> mitya57: in the applet you say?
<mitya57> No matter â in libindicator or in UPS itself.
<Trevinho> mitya57: if removing would cause that libreoffice bug again, I'd prefer not
<Trevinho> but I've not checked the full logic yte
<mitya57> Trevinho, I would leave the decision to you. In any case I fixed owncloud-client so the UPS part is no longer critical.
<Trevinho> mitya57: ah, however the line you linked to me before (the one doing the hiding), is actually in the indicator-loader... Which is a dummy loader for menus... So an example app
<Trevinho> not the lib itself
<Trevinho> isn' it?
<mitya57> Oh, maybe.
<Trevinho> mitya57: what's the diff at owncloud side, just to understand?
<mitya57> Trevinho, https://launchpadlibrarian.net/295376092/owncloud-client_2.2.4+dfsg-2_2.2.4+dfsg-2ubuntu1.diff.gz
<mitya57> One line changed :)
<mitya57> Re-registering the icon every 30 seconds was a workaround for some old bug in Qt 5.5.
<mitya57> Trevinho, but where are the items hidden then? I found only the entry2geometry hash, but I did not fully understand how that works.
<Trevinho> mitya57: that hash table should only have the reference of the entry id... not the entry itself... but it associate every menu "title" (or entry, as we call it) to a location in the screen and in the panel...
<Trevinho> so basically the panel knows where it's painted in unity... This is has to be known for various reasons such as scrubbing, or to know where to place the menu Alt+<accelerator>
<mitya57> Trevinho, the only useful thing happening in on_removed_idle() was dropping the removed items from that hash, so I thought that could hide them somehow.
<mitya57> But if I was wrong, then I can not find the line where they are actually hidden.
<Trevinho> mitya57: I don't see it at this level... I think it might happen on libindicator only... While the library keeps the refence, it doesn't notify it to the actual applet (whatever it is, indicator-applet or ups or... others)
<Trevinho> but this is just a suspect
<xnox> Gtk-Message: Failed to load module "overlay-scrollbar"
<xnox> that's dead right, and we should not try to load it?
<xnox> bin/ubiquity-dm:        os.environ['GTK_MODULES'] = 'overlay-scrollbar'
<xnox> bin/ubiquity-wrapper:        os.environ['GTK_MODULES'] += os.pathsep + 'overlay-scrollbar'
<xnox> bin/ubiquity-wrapper:        os.environ['GTK_MODULES'] = 'overlay-scrollbar'
<attente> is that still used for gtk 2 apps?
<ogra_> it isnt instealled at all
<xnox> ubiquity is gtk3
<ogra_> but it is installable from unitverse i thinnk
<ogra_> i guess the question is if you still want it to work for people that explicitly install it
<ogra_> (and yeah, i doubt it works at all for gtk3)
<xnox> during live-cd installer only? no, there are no apps during ubiquity-only session
<ogra_> oh, right ... i missed which files you pointed at
<attente> oh, right
<ogra_> rip it out ;)
<seb128> xnox, yeah, that needs to be cleaned out
<ogra_> seb128, should we perhaps also drop it from the archive ?
<seb128> ogra_, we did
<seb128> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/overlay-scrollbar/0.2.17.1+15.10.20150604.1-0ubuntu1
<seb128> the source still builds a gtk2 binary which is needed since gtk2 doesn't have such overlay scrollbars, that was only added to gtk3
<ogra_> yeah, i cant read what "apt search" prints ... sorry :P
<attente> desrt: hey, do you know if there's a way to prevent the libtool wrapper from the g-ir-scanner output from overriding LD_LIBRARY_PATH?
<desrt> uh
<desrt> that's sort of its job
<desrt> that's how it is able to make the linker find the in-tree versions of the libraries (which is pretty much the only thing libtool is good for)
<attente> but now i have an old system library and it's using that one instead of my locally installed one
<attente> https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/V8ZduzJD/
<attente> i don't really know where /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu is coming from
<attente> sorry, i should've given more context about the /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu problem
<Laney> happy weekend!
<willcooke> oh, yes it's time
<willcooke> good night all
<willcooke> Weekend \o/
<seb128> have a good w.e desktopers!
<cmishra> hello
<cmishra> are only two ides available now through ubuntu-make? (light table and visual-studio-code)
<dobey> pretty sure the android sdk / eclipse is there
#ubuntu-desktop 2016-12-03
<CrazyLemon> guys does anyone know whats the deal with this signon-ui on 16.10?! keeps poping up windows and closing them.. at least 10x in a minute or so
#ubuntu-desktop 2017-11-27
<oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
<didrocks> good morning
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<seb128> lut oSoMoN, re didrocks
<didrocks> re seb128
<willcooke> morning all
<willcooke> change of plan, not in London today
<seb128> hey willcooke, Didier was saying so
<oSoMoN> salut didrocks, seb128, willcooke
<didrocks> hey willcooke, morning oSoMoN
<willcooke> hey didrocks , how are you feeling?
<didrocks> willcooke: a little bit better, still fever and headaches (but pills start to have an effect) and need toilets not really farâ¦
<willcooke> :/
<willcooke> Shouldn't you take a day off?
<willcooke> hint: you should
<didrocks> willcooke: I have some emails, especially with the GNOME guys to answer, and that's good enough to WFH
<willcooke> kk
<willcooke> take it easy
<didrocks> thanks! Will do
<didrocks> but yeah, today is email/community hub day, no coding
<jamesh> oSoMoN: I've put together another desktop-launch patch that should help with the user fonts issue: https://github.com/ubuntu/snapcraft-desktop-helpers/pull/87
<oSoMoN> jamesh, excellent! I'll take a look right away
<aa_> #ubuntu
<andyrock> seb128: hey I was backporting py-macaroonbakery to xenial
<andyrock> and it depends on python3-protobuf
<andyrock> that it's not available on xenial
<andyrock> so we should backport python3-protobuf too but this could break packages that already depends on the old protobuf
<seb128> andyrock, hey, why would it if it's another package? do they conflict?
<andyrock> there cannot be two versions of protobuf in the same system
<andyrock> they conflict
<andyrock> so e.g. mir will not start anymore
<seb128> well, then it's not an issue having the binding
<seb128> but the binding require a newer protobuf/different version than xenial has?
<andyrock> indeed
<seb128> can you build a python3-protof for/from the xenial version?
<andyrock> there is no support for python3 in protobuf 2.6
<andyrock> that was my initial idea
<didrocks> hum, normally, you don't ned to install python3-protobuf or anything protobuf. You are supposed to generate the client bindings you are using in the tarball with protobuf
<didrocks> isn't what py-macaroonbakery is doing?
<andyrock> nope on bionic it just depends on python3-protobuf
<andyrock> let me check
<andyrock> well you still need the bindings
<didrocks> I guess maybe a bug upstream to ask them to generate the binding they are using as per protobuf doc?
<seb128> didrocks, is that standard practice in debian/ubuntu packages? (/me doesn't know much about that stack)
<didrocks> (doesn't help you on the backport, sorry, but that's really what they should do)
<didrocks> seb128: basically, it's how protobuf upstream is telling how you should use it
<didrocks> the service exposing the protocol has the .proto file + the server-side binding generated
<andyrock> didrocks: they're already generated
<seb128> which Debian disagrees with I guess if they now have a deb and make things depends on it?
<andyrock> also upstream
<andyrock> https://github.com/go-macaroon-bakery/py-macaroon-bakery/blob/master/macaroonbakery/internal/id_pb2.py
<didrocks> then, any client should sync the proto files and generate their own client code
<didrocks> ah :) so upstream has it and Debian does differently?
<andyrock> debian does the same
<andyrock> but you still need the bindings
<didrocks> seb128: yeah, could be, but really, this is code that has to be in sync with your repo, and there is different version of protobufs, that's why it's the upstream practice
<didrocks> wwhy?
<didrocks> https://github.com/go-macaroon-bakery/py-macaroon-bakery/blob/master/macaroonbakery/internal/id_pb2.py is what is generated by protobuf
<didrocks> (well, protoc)
<andyrock> otherwise all the "from google.protobuf import" will fail
<andyrock> we don't use the compiler but we use bindings
 * didrocks knows more the Go generate bindings which don't depend on protobuf
<didrocks> weird the python version is different
<didrocks> (meaning: not self-sufficient)
 * didrocks looks at some experiment I did in the past in python
<didrocks> hum, that's right, the python bindings are behaving differently: https://github.com/ubuntu/christmas-music-carousel-snap/blob/master/music-grpc-events/musicevents/piglow_pb2.py
<andyrock> I can try to add python3 support to protobu 2.6
<andyrock> and edit the debian to build the python3 too
<andyrock> when static linking is an option you can workaround this issue
<andyrock> I did something like that when working on chromium on mir
<didrocks> yeah, it imports proto1 at build time: https://github.com/didrocks/grpc-piglow/blob/master/proto/piglow.pb.go
<andyrock> mmm adding python3 supports looks like a huge task
<didrocks> yeah, I betâ¦
<seb128> andyrock, yeah, I wouldn't try to go this way
<seb128> need another approach for xenial imho
<andyrock> https://github.com/google/protobuf/issues/7
<andyrock> it says that 2to3 should do the job
<didrocks> could you just copy the content in an 3rd-party module dir?
<ricotz> oSoMoN, hey, LO 6.0beta1 builds fine so far, but there are some more packaging fixes/tweaks needed
<andyrock> didrocks: I can try
<didrocks> vendoring sounds like the best approach to me
<Nafallo> hi. fwiw, I'm back on IRC for the time being. LTNS :-)
<oSoMoN> ricotz, are those changes things that are already in the debian packaging branch?
<ricotz> oSoMoN, no
<ricotz> oSoMoN, "minor" fallouts due ubuntu specific changes
<oSoMoN> ricotz, ack, I assume you're looking into them already?
<ricotz> oSoMoN, yeah, will do so soon
<oSoMoN> thanks!
<kenvandine> Trevinho, not sure where to file this issue.  I've found an issue with the shell when a snap is updated for a snap that's already running
<kenvandine> Trevinho, for example if the chromium snap is running when the snap refreshes the shell will no longer associate the dock icon with the running process
<kenvandine> no mark showing it's running and clicking on the icon launchers a new process
<kenvandine> Trevinho, so far i've only reproduced it with chromium though, the gnome snaps behave.  So perhaps the gnome apps are more resilient because they register as a gapplication
<simonizor> I've found an issue with snaps.  People see them on the software center, install them, and then never know that they've installed a snap until they have an issue with it and try to get help and none of the troubleshooting tips work for some reason.
<simonizor> Trying to troubleshoot for something like that is not fun.  Can't blame the user because no where at all is it obvious that they've installed a snap.
<seb128> simonizor, how is that an issue with snaps? why do the user need to care how was the thing they use installed? it's rather an issue for the bug reporting process if anything
<Trevinho> hi europe.... (from medellin)
<seb128> hey Trevinho, how are you? back in shape?
<Trevinho> seb128: hey
<Trevinho> seb128: well.... I've been feeling better I've to say, I'm still very tired physically.... Not really energetic.
<Trevinho> But, I can live with that...
<Trevinho> No problems for working, thank god
<seb128> no crazy parties this week, just sleep at night :)
<Nafallo> btw, is ubufox coming back in firefox 57+, or is it dropped now? :-P
<seb128> hey Nafallo, it has been a while, how are you?
<seb128> what is ubufox doing?
<Nafallo> seb128: it has indeed :-). I'm alright. back in Sweden these days, working on Ubuntu projects ;-)
<chrisccoulson> nothing at the moment because it's an empty package
<Nafallo> seb128: how's you? :-)
<chrisccoulson> seb128 ^ ;)
<Nafallo> chrisccoulson: heh, it's a legacy extension and not even showing up :-P
<seb128> chrisccoulson, :)
<seb128> Nafallo, I'm goog thanks
<seb128> you are back to Ubuntu, nice ;)
<Nafallo> I never really left :-P
<Nafallo> I think I've done Ubuntu somewhere or the other since September 2004 now ;-)
<simonizor> seb128: If the user has no idea what type of package they've installed, they have no idea how to ask for help with it
<simonizor> It should be extremely obvious in the software center that you are installing a snap and not a regular deb package
<simonizor> Have had multiple users who have installed Discord lately through the software center trying to get help in a Linux Discord server that I'm in, and they had no idea they were running a snap
<simonizor> So these users go reporting bugs with the snap directly to the developers not knowing that they're even using a snap and that the problems were caused by the snap
<seb128> you would have the same issue if they had t he deb
<seb128> and the bug was in the deb
<simonizor> No.
<jbicha> simonizor: "extremely obvious in the software center" > the details page for the app already has a Source field
<Nafallo> bug #1729656
<ubot5> bug 1729656 in ubufox (Ubuntu) "changes to distribution.ini gets overwritten on upgrade" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1729656
<Nafallo> chrisccoulson: ^ reason I was asking about ubufox btw ;-)
<Nafallo> might be deprecated now
<willcooke> night gang
<oSoMoN> good night al
<oSoMoN> all
<robert_ancell> RAOF: what was the name of that space board/card game you brought to one of the sprints? One of the US sprints, can't remember which one. We played it in someones hotel room.
<RAOF> robert_ancell: You're probably thinking of `Race For The Galaxy`
<robert_ancell> RAOF: bingo!
<RAOF> robert_ancell: The other one which would be a candidate is Eclipse, but I'm *pretty* sure I never brought that; it takes upwards of 3 hours.
<robert_ancell> RAOF: you on boardgamegeek.com?
<sarnold> bingo's a different kind of game entirely..
<RAOF> I have browsed there; I don't think I've got an account theer.
<RAOF> sarnold: ð¥
<sarnold> :D
<robert_ancell> sarnold: that's why everyone keeps looking at me weird when I should it out mid-game...
<sarnold> hehehe
<robert_ancell> Been playing lots of new games at a local group, trying to remember all the random ones I've played previously.
<robert_ancell> jbicha: http://paste.ubuntu.com/26061112/
<robert_ancell> jbicha: while I don't want to be a DD is it possible to get push access to pkg-ayatana?
<jbicha> robert_ancell: done, please add yourself to Uploaders for snapd-glib to silence the lintian warning
<robert_ancell> jbicha: should I set the changelog to UNRELEASED or unstable?
<jbicha> it doesn't matter today since I'll go ahead and upload for you, but UNRELEASED is probably better in the future
<jbicha> btw, sunweaver usually uses gbp dch --auto (for easier cherry-picking to other releases)
<robert_ancell> acronym acronym abbreviation :) I'll have to look that one up
<robert_ancell> jbicha: still getting pubkey failure - where does debian check the ssh key from?
<jbicha> are you able to push to pkg-gnome repos (svn or git) ?
<robert_ancell> I was able to push to pkg-gnome ages ago.
<jbicha> check https://alioth.debian.org/account/
<jbicha> if that looks ok, you might just have to wait a bit for Alioth to pick up your new group membership
<robert_ancell> yeah, key is OK. I'll try again later
<jbicha> your username is robert_ancell-guest
<robert_ancell> yes
<jbicha> becoming a Debian Maintainer should be pretty easy (it's not like Debian Developer) and it would let you do uploads yourself for packages you have been whitelisted for
<robert_ancell> jbicha: hmm, I can't pull from gnome-calculator either.
<robert_ancell> Are there any other permissions I should need?
<jbicha> make sure your url is set to ssh://robert_ancell-guest@git.debian.org/git/pkg-ayatana/snapd-glib
<jbicha> gnome-calculator and most GNOME pkgs still uses svn
<robert_ancell> jbicha: ah, that fixed it! I thought most git servers don't care about the username when using ssh keys
<robert_ancell> jbicha: thanks!
<jbicha> if you want yet another IRC channel, #debian-ayatana on irc.debian.org is set up to get git push notifications via a kgb bot
<jbicha> the username might not matter if you set in ~/.ssh/config like this
<jbicha> Host *.debian.org
<jbicha>     User robert_ancell-guest
<robert_ancell> jbicha: you can never have enough IRC channels, right ;)
<robert_ancell> ok, me -> lunch
#ubuntu-desktop 2017-11-28
<oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
<didrocks> good morning
<oSoMoN> salut didrocks
<oSoMoN> comment va?
<didrocks> salut oSoMoN, encore malade et je crache mes poumons, mais je survis :p
<didrocks> et toi ?
<oSoMoN> Ã§a va, je nâai pas encore attrapÃ© de rhume rapportÃ© de lâÃ©cole, je croise les doigtsâ¦
<didrocks> des vrais petits nids infectieux :p
<ricotz> hey desktopers
<ricotz> chrisccoulson, hi, don't forget to push your firefox packaging branches
<oSoMoN> hey ricotz, good morning
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<didrocks> salut seb128
<seb128> lut oSoMoN didrocks
<willcooke> morning all
<didrocks> hey willcooke
<oSoMoN> salut seb128
<oSoMoN> good morning willcooke
<ricotz> chrisccoulson, please copy the rustc/cargo/llvm packages to the archive too
<seb128> hey willcooke, how are you?
<willcooke> Got to go to the dentist later.  First time for about, erm, 25 years
<willcooke> :(
<seb128> willcooke, lucky you & not wise at the same time!
<willcooke> :)
<Nafallo> willcooke: what seb128 means is probably that you'll loose the wisdom teeth ;-)
<willcooke> ha
<Nafallo> morning channel btw. had coffee now :-P
<willcooke> morning Nafallo
<seb128> willcooke, btw that unity-control-center SRU got moved to updates after nagging yesterday (in case you didn't notice)
<Nafallo> 17.04 â 17.10 â 18.04 on the go. first time in a long while I'm a bit... hesitant about dist-upgrades ;-)
<oSoMoN> got my flights booked for FOSDEM, looking forward to it!
<seb128> oSoMoN, wooot
<oSoMoN> I'm kind of worried that https://fosdem.org/2018/beerevent/ returns a 404 though
<willcooke> seb128, kenvandine - I've got a clash with the team meeting now, could one of you guys run it?  I'll forward the updates I have
<Nafallo> seems update-manager -cd breaks in artful ;-)
<Nafallo> /usr/lib/python3/dist-packages/DistUpgrade/DistUpgradeFetcher.py:23: PyGIWarning: Gtk was imported without specifying a version first. Use gi.require_version('Gtk', '3.0') before import to ensure that the right version gets loaded.
<Nafallo>   from gi.repository import Gtk, Gdk
<Nafallo> Segmentation fault (core dumped)
<jibel> Nafallo, it's known
<Nafallo> good, no bug needed then ;-)
<Nafallo> hmm. if not that much have had a change yet perhaps it's worth doing an old-style upgrade? :-P
<jibel> Nafallo, it happens under wayland
<jibel> Nafallo, run xhost +si:localuser:root before running the command
<jibel> Nafallo, it'll add root to the ACL
<jibel> Nafallo, for reference it's bug 1732185
<ubot5> bug 1732185 in update-manager (Ubuntu) "do-release-upgrade crashed with SIGSEGV under wayland" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1732185
<Nafallo> cheers, I'll try :-)
<Nafallo> I suppose changing + to - after will remove it again?
<seb128> willcooke, I can do
<jibel> Nafallo, yes but after a release upgrade you'll usually reboot and it'll reset the acl
<Nafallo> ah. it's not a permanent change. I see :-)
<seb128> jibel, wouldn't it be simpler to set GDK_BACKEND=x11 to have those using xwayland rather than poking a security hole through like that?
<jibel> seb128, let me try again with do-release-upgrade, I couldn't make it work AFAIR
<seb128> jibel, yeah, thinking more about it that's probably not going to make a difference in the auth
<seb128> oSoMoN, you noticed that libreoffice is blocked in bionic-proposed due to i386 autopkgtest issues?
<Nafallo> â 18.04
<oSoMoN> seb128, yes, I'm on it
<seb128> great
<seb128> I don't know if you received those emails about it being stucked migration?
<ricotz> oSoMoN, I think openjdk 9 supposedly fixed this i386 issue
<ricotz> the i386 kernel java issue
<kenvandine> oSoMoN, yeah the 404 for the beerevent is discouraging :)
<oSoMoN> ricotz, yes, I thought so too, just trying to reproduce and confirm locally for now
<oSoMoN> kenvandine, will you be going?
<kenvandine> oSoMoN, yup!
<ricotz> oSoMoN, of course it isn't the default yet? so it would have to be used explicitly
<oSoMoN> kenvandine, cool!
<oSoMoN> ricotz, yes, we would have to specify the version
<simonizor> Well then... LXQt is super duper broken in 18.04 daily right now
<simonizor> dunno how you push an update that breaks so many deps at once
<simonizor> https://u.teknik.io/z7DgL.txt
<Trevinho> morning guys
<seb128> hey Trevinho, how are you?
<Trevinho> hey seb128 finally well :-D
<seb128> great news
<Trevinho> I mean energetic as always :-D
<seb128> \o/
<jbicha> simonizor: try #lubuntu-devel
<kenvandine> Roll call: andyrock, dgadomski, didrocks, duflu (out), jbicha, jamesh (out), jibel/heber, kenvandine, laney (out), oSoMoN, seb128, tkamppeter, trevinho, robert_ancell (out)
<jbicha> o/
<didrocks> hey
<kenvandine> #startmeeting Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2017-11-28
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Nov 28 14:30:25 2017 UTC.  The chair is kenvandine. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/lsBmkzPY/ubuntu-desktop-1804-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | pink killer â lots of help | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2017-11-28 | Current topic:
<andyrock> hey
<seb128> o/
<kenvandine> #topic andyrock
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/lsBmkzPY/ubuntu-desktop-1804-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | pink killer â lots of help | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2017-11-28 | Current topic: andyrock
<andyrock> hey
<andyrock> 1. Removing snaps from gdu
<oSoMoN> o/
<andyrock> 1.1 proposed a mp for snapd
<andyrock> 1.2 proposed a mp for udisks
<andyrock> 1.3 proposed a mp for gdu
<kenvandine> andyrock, woot!
<andyrock> 2. Livepatch desktop integration
<andyrock> 2.1 prepared mp for bionic
<andyrock> 2.2 working on backporting py-macaroonbakery in xenial
<andyrock> eow
<kenvandine> andyrock, thx
<kenvandine> #topic dgadomski
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/lsBmkzPY/ubuntu-desktop-1804-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | pink killer â lots of help | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2017-11-28 | Current topic: dgadomski
<dgadomski> hey
<dgadomski> I don't have anything desktop-related this time.
<dgadomski> eof
<kenvandine> thx
<kenvandine> #topic didrocks
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/lsBmkzPY/ubuntu-desktop-1804-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | pink killer â lots of help | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2017-11-28 | Current topic: didrocks
<didrocks> * Learnt Meson/ninja (reading docs and playing examples)
<didrocks> * Do initial building blocks and branch for GNOME Shell new themes, add build system, refresh strategy and packaging. Offering a special session for this community theme setting up GNOME Shell, icon theme, GTK theme and setting default GDM theme to it.
<didrocks> * Discussion on sound panel volume within GNOME (waiting on Allan to be back from holidays)
<didrocks> * Discussion on session mode management within GNOME (still waiting for feedback after additional thoughts provided)
<didrocks> * Entered google code in dekstop tasks into the system.
<didrocks> * A lot of community/hub interactions (on the community theme side)
<didrocks> .
<kenvandine> didrocks, thx
<kenvandine> #topic jbicha
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/lsBmkzPY/ubuntu-desktop-1804-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | pink killer â lots of help | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2017-11-28 | Current topic: jbicha
<jbicha> â¢ fonts-noto-color-emoji is in Ubuntu today. MIR is LP: #1734885
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1734885 in fonts-noto-color-emoji (Ubuntu) "[MIR] fonts-noto-color-emoji" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1734885
<jbicha> â¢ fonts-roboto-slab is in Debian & Ubuntu (a default font for Pop!_OS)
<jbicha> â¢ Debian has gnome-software-plugin-snap again (snapd-glib is now in Debian)
<jbicha> â¢ Merged gnome-software 3.26.3 with Debian for bionic
<jbicha> â¢ Uploaded goocanvasmm-2.0 to Debian (build-dependency for glom)
<jbicha> â¢ Waiting on a license issue to be resolved before uploading glom to Debian
<jbicha> â¢ New version of babl uploaded but https://bugzilla.gnome.org/790745
<ubot5> Gnome bug 790745 in babl "babl 0.1.38: float-to-8bit test fails on s390x" [Normal,New]
<jbicha> â¢ I need help with LP: #1734586 I think we should consider dropping the patch if no one is going to rebase it.
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1734586 in network-manager (Ubuntu) "Merge NetworkManager with Debian 1.10.0-1" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1734586
<jbicha> eof
<kenvandine> jbicha, thx
<kenvandine> #topic jamesh
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/lsBmkzPY/ubuntu-desktop-1804-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | pink killer â lots of help | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2017-11-28 | Current topic: jamesh
<kenvandine> * snapd: update user-mounts branch to use snap-update-ns and add a
<kenvandine> spread test.  This seems close to being accepted, and is the base
<kenvandine> infrastructure needed to enable the xdg-desktop-portal's document
<kenvandine> portal for snaps.  Once this is merged, I want to get portal access
<kenvandine> working by default with the "desktop" snap interface.
<kenvandine> * snaps:
<kenvandine>  - Investigated where time was being spent on the first run of snapped
<kenvandine> desktop apps.  I experimented with some moving generation of some
<kenvandine> caches from first run to snap generation, which makes a massive
<kenvandine> difference.  I've got a patch for snapcraft-desktop-helpers that solve
<kenvandine> the issue for apps using the GNOME platform snap.  At present, it
<kenvandine> isn't clear how to handle this without snapcraft.yaml changes for the
<kenvandine> other desktop-* cloud parts.
<kenvandine>  - oSoMoN pointed me at a report that a user's personal fonts (i.e.
<kenvandine> those in ~/.fonts or ~/.local/share/fonts) were not visible in the
<kenvandine> snapped LibreOffice.  This seems to be a case of fontconfig not
<kenvandine> finding them rather than being denied access.  I put together another
<kenvandine> snapcraft-desktop-helpers PR that should solve this.
<kenvandine> #topic jibel
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/lsBmkzPY/ubuntu-desktop-1804-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | pink killer â lots of help | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2017-11-28 | Current topic: jibel
<jibel> - Debugged upgrade failure from Xenial to Bionic (bug 1723115)
<jibel> - Continued SRU verification of gnome-software on artful
<jibel> - Built bionic image for MaaS and enable testing on hardware of the dev release (pre-requisite for bootspeed tests and app startup tests)
<jibel> - Started work on app startup time for snap packages
<jibel> - Update tests setup to ensure they load the proxy environment variables in systemd
<jibel> - Create a snap with testability plug to make sure introspection is possible and submit a test.
<jibel> ..
<ubot5> bug 1723115 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu) "do-release-upgrade -cd on xenial fails with "Parse failed on meta-release-lts-development"" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1723115
<kenvandine> jibel, thx
<kenvandine> #topic kenvandine
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/lsBmkzPY/ubuntu-desktop-1804-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | pink killer â lots of help | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2017-11-28 | Current topic: kenvandine
<kenvandine> * I've been mostly out since last weeks meeting.  I was busy eating too much :)
<kenvandine> * Reviewed and merged gnome-3-1604 platform snap fixes from jamesh, this is the basis for some work to speed up app launching
<kenvandine> * Reviewing/testing snapcraft-desktop-helpers PRs from jamesh, improving font handling and speedup work
<kenvandine> #topic oSoMoN
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/lsBmkzPY/ubuntu-desktop-1804-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | pink killer â lots of help | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2017-11-28 | Current topic: oSoMoN
<oSoMoN> hey
<oSoMoN> â¢ chromium
<oSoMoN>   â uploaded chromium-browser 62.0.3202.94 to bionic and Chris published to all supported series
<oSoMoN>   â updated chromium beta to 63.0.3239.59 and updated snap in beta channel
<oSoMoN>   â updated chromium dev to 64.0.3269.3 and updated snap in edge channel
<oSoMoN>   â following conversation with DMB, started using a more standard versioning scheme for chromium packages (was using bzr revno until now, this was inherited from the existing packages, I'm not really sure why)
<oSoMoN>   â gave a quick shot at jumbo builds (https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromium/src/+/master/docs/jumbo.md), the result is faster builds indeed, but also a much larger binary (Ã3) as a result â need to look at that again some time
<oSoMoN> â¢ libreoffice
<oSoMoN>   â investigating a crash report that's blocking the 5.4.2 SRU to artful (unlikely to be a regression, but gotta get to the bottom of it)
<oSoMoN>   â updated libreoffice snap to 5.4.3, now in candidate channel and issued a call for testing
<oSoMoN>   â 5.4.3 in bionic-proposed, currently looking into an i386 autopkgtest failure that prevents the migration
<oSoMoN> â¢ misc
<oSoMoN>   â got my tickets for FOSDEM
<oSoMoN> CRLF
<kenvandine> oSoMoN, thx
<kenvandine> #topic seb128
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/lsBmkzPY/ubuntu-desktop-1804-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | pink killer â lots of help | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2017-11-28 | Current topic: seb128
<seb128> â¢ had one day off
<seb128> â¢ dealt with some HR backlog
<seb128> â¢ bugs reviews/triaging
<seb128> â¢ catching up on upstream/community discussions
<seb128> â¢ some planning work
<seb128> </week>
<kenvandine> seb128, thx
<kenvandine> #topic tkamppeter
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/lsBmkzPY/ubuntu-desktop-1804-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | pink killer â lots of help | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2017-11-28 | Current topic: tkamppeter
<tkamppeter> - OpenPrinting web site: Tested GitHub Pages functionality for a possible move of the main page.
<tkamppeter> - cpdb-libs (Common Print Dialog Backends Libraries): As Nilanjana does not have much time, looked into how to improve the library layout for Debian packaging.
<tkamppeter> - Bugs.
<kenvandine> tkamppeter, thx
<kenvandine> #topic Trevinho
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/lsBmkzPY/ubuntu-desktop-1804-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | pink killer â lots of help | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2017-11-28 | Current topic: Trevinho
<kenvandine> Â· Need to take 2.5 of sickness leave because Panama hit me with some fever
<kenvandine> Â· Proposed a gjs fix to avoid crashes when calling methods on deleted
<kenvandine> objects
<kenvandine>   https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gjs/merge_requests/22
<kenvandine> Â· Some fixes and improvements to the gnome-shell fractional resource scale
<kenvandine>   (I think there's nothing really more do to at shell toolkit level, just
<kenvandine>   waiting for upstream review)
<kenvandine> Â· Fixed yet another gnome shell crash happening on monitor setting changes
<Trevinho> ð¨ð´
<kenvandine> hey Trevinho!
<Trevinho> hey :)
<Trevinho> faster than me to paste
<Trevinho> thanks
<kenvandine> #topic robert_ancell
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/lsBmkzPY/ubuntu-desktop-1804-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | pink killer â lots of help | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2017-11-28 | Current topic: robert_ancell
<kenvandine> - Working on snap channel selection in GNOME Software
<kenvandine> - snapd-glib 1.30 released
<kenvandine> #topic aob
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/lsBmkzPY/ubuntu-desktop-1804-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | pink killer â lots of help | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2017-11-28 | Current topic: aob
<kenvandine> ok, seems no other business
<kenvandine> everyone continue making Ubuntu Desktop awesome!
<kenvandine> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/lsBmkzPY/ubuntu-desktop-1804-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | pink killer â lots of help
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Nov 28 14:44:48 2017 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-desktop/2017/ubuntu-desktop.2017-11-28-14.30.moin.txt
<seb128> thanks kenvandine!
<oSoMoN> thanks kenvandine
<jbicha> seb128: could you add the bug subscribers for LP: #1731065 and  LP: #1734885 ?
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1731065 in mod-dnssd (Ubuntu) "[MIR] mod-dnssd" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1731065
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1734885 in fonts-noto-color-emoji (Ubuntu) "[MIR] fonts-noto-color-emoji" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1734885
<jbicha> I've got an NMU in progress for mod-dnssd to update the packaging some
<kenvandine> oSoMoN, what's needed to allow the chromium snap to set the default browser?
<kenvandine> isn't that just gsettings?
<didrocks> thanks!
<seb128> jbicha, done
 * kenvandine wants irc links to open the snap instead of chrome :)
<seb128> kenvandine, https://forum.snapcraft.io/t/browser-not-setting-itself-as-the-default/1547/
<kenvandine> great, another link that will open in chrome :)
<seb128> kenvandine, it's not gsettings but ~/.config/mimeapps.list which is outside the snap env
<kenvandine> ah
<seb128> also they are not wanting to give free access to that
<kenvandine> that leaks info
<seb128> otherwise random crap could claim to be handling types and do not nice thing
<seb128> kenvandine, you should be able to pick the snap in gnome-control-center -> details to make it default though?
<seb128> just the other way around doesn't work (the app prompt)
<kenvandine> i hadn't tried
<kenvandine> yay
<kenvandine> indeed that works fine :)
<seb128> :)
<kenvandine> makes dogfooding even better :)
<jbicha> didrocks: do you do MIR reviews?
<didrocks> jbicha: as time permits, I do some, I plan to do the gnome-characters one before EOW
<jbicha> the Noto Emoji one should be easy
<didrocks> I'll see if I can review it, no promess though
<jbicha> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/component-mismatches-proposed.html shows a bunch of fonts-smc-* packages (split to separate packages I believe)
<didrocks> jbicha: it won't be before Friday for me at least
<jbicha> seb128: do you need to subscribe Desktop Bugs to those fonts-smc packages?
<jbicha> ok
<seb128> jbicha, what is fonts-smc?
<seb128> ah
<seb128> I wouldn't bother
<seb128> I'm not even sure we should sign up to maintain fonts
<jbicha> fonts-smc has been stuck in bionic-proposed for a few weeks ð¤·
<seb128> changing location, brb
<willcooke> off to the dentist, l8r doodz
<oSoMoN> seb128, I confirm that the i386 autopkgtest regression for libreoffice in bionic-proposed is the infamous i386 java kernel issue
<oSoMoN> seb128, IIRC last time we ignored the failure to allow LO to migrate to the release pocket
<oSoMoN> ric_otz reminded me that this is supposedly fixed in openjdk 9, so if we don't want to ignore the failure IÂ could look into having the tests run with openjdk9
<Nafallo> hmm. I have no menus in thunderbird on 18.04 I just realised. is this a bug or did I forget to remove something? :-)
<kenvandine> with gnome-3-26-1604 from edge and desktop helpers fixes from jamesh, startup time for gnome-characters went from 31s to 3s!
<kenvandine> woot
<kenvandine> jamesh, great work!
<Nafallo> oh. rightclick, menubar... :-P
<seb128> oSoMoN, can you nag #ubuntu-release to do that again?
<seb128> Nafallo, use alt-f, the idea is that the menubar shouldn't be needed that all the options are available in the popdown menu from the top right
<seb128> kenvandine, jamesh, well done!
<oSoMoN> seb128, you mean ignore the failure?
<seb128> oSoMoN, right, I would ask that to unblock it, you can look at using openjdk9 but time to do the change/test/upload/build
<seb128> there is no reason to not migrate the current one
<oSoMoN> seb128, ack
<Nafallo> seb128: alt-f just pops down the hidden menu?
<robert_ancell> jbicha: so how do you build from the git debian branches?
<jbicha> robert_ancell: are you familiar with git-buildpackage?
<robert_ancell> jbicha: I've never got it to work from a branch that doesn't contain the source
<jbicha> use --git-tarball-dir=../tarballs (assuming that's where your original tarballs are kept)
<jbicha> you might need --git-no-pristine-tar too
<jbicha> personally I really like pristine-tar and full upstream source in the git repo but sunweaver doesn't for some reason
<robert_ancell> jbicha: it can't just get the tarball automatically from debian/watch?
<jbicha> I use uscan -dd to download the new version
<jbicha> I see you have a new version out already, you develop too fast ð
<robert_ancell> release early, release often :)
#ubuntu-desktop 2017-11-29
<didrocks> good morning!
<jibel> morning didrocks
<didrocks> salut jibel
<jibel> didrocks, are you feeling better?
<didrocks> jibel: a little bit, after a night of sweating, I feel the virus is slowely exiting finallyâ¦
<didrocks> so feeling better than yesterday, far from being in full shape though
<didrocks> and you? All good?
<jibel> didrocks, yes, i'm all right.
<oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers!
<didrocks> salut oSoMoN !
<oSoMoN> salut didrocks
<Nafallo> morning o/
<seb128> lut didrocks oSoMoN jibel
<seb128> hey Nafallo
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<oSoMoN> salut seb128, Ã§a va?
<seb128> ouais, nickel, et toi ?
<oSoMoN> trÃ¨s bien
<didrocks> salut seb128 !
<oSoMoN> libreoffice 5.4.3 is now in bionic
<Nafallo> seb128: heh, I didn't get the french hello. not sure if I should feel special or left out :-P
<willcooke> morning
<didrocks> good morning willcooke
<seb128> oSoMoN, great!
<seb128> hey willcooke
<Nafallo> morning willcooke :-)
<oSoMoN> good morning willcooke
<willcooke> So, Nafallo wins the dentist prize!  No fillings, but I need 4 wisdom teeth out :/
<oSoMoN> ouch
<Nafallo> willcooke: the big question then, what did you ask them to put in instead? :-)
<willcooke> wooden ones, it's the British way
<Nafallo> that doesn't sounds efficient at all. would just taste like beer all the time once they've had a chance to soak it up :-P
<willcooke> wait, that sounds awesome ;)
<didrocks> willcooke: ok, I won't tell you tomorrow my 4 wisdom teeth story. Once it's done however, I'm happy to share :)
<Nafallo> didrocks: you could tell beforehand what YOU replaced them with :-P
<oSoMoN> is it a known issue that the lock screen is very laggy when there's a CPU-intensive task running (like building chromium), to the point that when revealing the login entry after starting to type my password, half (or more) of the keystrokes are lost?
<didrocks> Nafallo: haha, I just lost wisdom on that day, no replacement :p
<didrocks> oSoMoN: well, not known, but not surprised (it's under the same users and the Shell in general is really laggy with intensie CPU tasks
<didrocks> intensive*
<didrocks> missing inputs and such
<oSoMoN> didrocks, is it worth filing a bug? IIRC the unity lock screen didn't exhibit this problem
<didrocks> oSoMoN: please, file one upstream, on the bz tracker (gnome-shell)
<oSoMoN> ok
<willcooke> (I saw something about upstream tracking bugs on gitlab now - is that only for certain projects?)
<oSoMoN> I keep having to type my password twice to unlock my screen, it's annoying
<jamesh> oSoMoN: I see it too.  I'm not seeing lost keystrokes though: rather repeated keystrokes
<didrocks> willcooke: yeah, only for some, transitionning slowly
<didrocks> g-s didn't yet, but +1 on the move
<Nafallo> would it depend on what sort of keyboard connection you use perhaps?
<willcooke> seb128, jibel  - Bluetooth is (most probably) cancelled today as koza is in Taipei.
<jamesh> i.e. the number of dots is more than the number of characters in my password
<didrocks> jamesh: indeed, due to how mutter handles key inputs for repeated keys
<didrocks> (end time - start time, which can be long on a hanging CPU)
<oSoMoN> jamesh, IÂ also sometimes see repeated keystrokes in gnome-terminal or gedit when under a heavy load, indeed
<jamesh> didrocks: I read that Wayland handles key repeat in the client rather than the server, so it can happen pretty much anywhere
<didrocks> indeed
<oSoMoN> I initially thought it might be due to using an external USB keyboard, but IÂ see the issue with the laptopâs builtin keyboard too
<jamesh> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=777693 seems to be the relevant bug, which also notes XWayland implementing a work around
<ubot5> Gnome bug 777693 in general "Input event (e. g. typing on keyboard) is sent repeatedly during high load" [Normal,Needinfo]
<oSoMoN> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=790973
<ubot5> Gnome bug 790973 in lock-screen "Unlock dialog laggy when under heavy load, drops keystrokes" [Normal,New]
<seb128> willcooke, +1 for not doing the bluetooth one without koza & duflu
<willcooke> bbiab, errands
<willcooke> back
<Nafallo> hmm. my lockscreen shortcut changed. is that a bug? :-P
<didrocks> the default is Super + L under GNOME Shell (and so, on 17.10)
<Nafallo> hmm. mine was set to ctrl+alt+l...
<Nafallo> *shrugs* let's ignore it then :-P
<Nafallo> now I'm not sure how I locked it on 17.04 anymore :-P
<seb128> it's a known issue
<seb128> we should support the old one since quite some users have trained muscle memory on that combo for over a decade
<seb128> it's easy to change in the settings but annoying and can be seen a security issue since some people are likely to ctrl-alt-l -> walk away from the laptop and have it unlocked
<oSoMoN> yeah, that happened to me quite a few times when I upgraded to artful during the development cycle, and I had to re-train muscle memory to use Super+L
<Nafallo> ooooh
<Nafallo> both super+l and ctrl+alt+l works on 16.04 :-P
<Nafallo> and it's set to ctrl+alt+l in settings
<Nafallo> is this some kind of unity thing? :-)
<didrocks> yeah, it was an array, upstream GNOME has a single key which may do the distro-patch hard to maintain
<didrocks> this is why we let default upstream for 17.10 and wait to revisit that for 18.04, but seems we'll add a second key
<Nafallo> well, if we don't want users leaving their computers unlocked in open space offices... ;-)
<Nafallo> thankfully I got hit by it in my home office when getting another coffee :-P
<frechdachs69> Q: how do I select which desktop to use (e.g. 'kubuntu-desktop') within a preseed file?
<andyrock> how can I generate a quilt patch with "diff --git ..." lines
<didrocks> andyrock: hum, if you committed, git format-patch is compatible
<andyrock> didrocks: I'm generating a debdiff
<andyrock> and the debdiff is dirty because it removes all the "diff --git google-..." lines
<didrocks> ah, you want to do the other way around, hum
<didrocks> I'm generally doing the other way, editing on the git, and then backporting as a quilt patch
<didrocks> you have a --diffstat, but this isn't what you want I guess
<andyrock> well I'll proposed the debdiff as it is :D
<Trevinho> morning
<didrocks> morning Trevinho!
<Trevinho> hi didrocks, ca va?
<didrocks> Trevinho: still a little bit sick, but starting to get better, and you?
<Trevinho> I'm good, I took almost a week to recover :o
<jbicha> didrocks: I'm doing some work on LP: #1585903 and I'm wondering your opinion of how we should handle light-themes
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1585903 in Ubuntu GNOME "Make it possible to remove gtk2" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1585903
<jbicha> how likely is it that the 18.04 theme will be shipped in light-themes? will there be a separate Ambiance theme in a separate binary package for users to install?
<jbicha> (the problem is that gtk2 themes depend on libgtk2.0-0)
<didrocks> jbicha: answered! I guess splitting is fine
<didrocks> we will have Ambiance by default, need just to have the gtk2 Ambiance variant installed by default
<didrocks> we can relax the dep if needed manually
<didrocks> (as we did in the past for sni-qt to not dep on Qt)
<jbicha> so currently, you expect the 18.04 theme to still be named Ambiance?
<didrocks> jbicha: good chance, making a new theme isn't straightfoward and we should plan for the worst case :)
<jbicha> I think this is a great usecase for conditional dependencies: if gtk2 and Numix is installed, then install numix-gtk2 for instance
<didrocks> well, we don't have that in apt
<didrocks> so, the way we dealt with this in the past is this ^ hacking the ${Depends}
<didrocks> the first app which will need it will dep on GTK2, and so, will pull the dep
<jbicha> right, that's basically my strategy for the default install. Once gtk2 is no longer installed by default, I guess it can recommend all the popular gtk2 themes :|
<didrocks> well, we still want the default experience to be fine for people installing it
<didrocks> like people pulling any app that is dep on GTK2
<didrocks> that's why we still want Ambiance to be installed by default
<didrocks> (GTK2 & GTK3 versions)
<didrocks> however, relaxing the deps is fine IMHO
<didrocks> so that it doesn't pull gtk2
<jbicha> my plan was to have libgtk2.0-0 Recommend light-themes-gtk2 (it can't be a Depends unless we don't care about the circular dependency problem)
<didrocks> but still having light-themes-gtk2 seeded, correct?
<jbicha> not explicitly no
<didrocks> hum, this isn't what I just explained on how we do it :/
<didrocks> there is no reason for libgtk2.0-0 to recommend a particular theme
<jbicha> Ubuntu's libgtk2.0-0 arguably should recommend Ubuntu's gtk2 theme as long as we don't have a conditional dependency feature
<jbicha> as of yesterday, Debian unstable's gtk2 recommends Adwaita for instance
<didrocks> sounds weird
<didrocks> but still, my advise is to do the same way we handled optional modules and features:
<didrocks> advice*
<didrocks> - have light-themes-gtk2 seeded by default
<didrocks> - relax (in debian/rules, hack the generated shlib dep) the dep between light-themes-gtk2 to libgtk2 to not be listed
<didrocks> That way, people will have the theme available, and the first application needed GTK2 will fullfil the necessary dep
<jbicha> oh, ugh
<jbicha> that sounds a bit horrible but it might work
<didrocks> it does
<jbicha> I mean I guess my proposal is a bit horrible too!
<didrocks> that's how we handled for a long time having Qt modules with ubuntu's behavior without pulling Qt
<didrocks> yeah, at least, we don't pull our theme for other derivatives
<didrocks> contrary to having a recommends
<didrocks> which will impact all flavors
<jbicha> I guess it might not even be worth splitting light-themes if we can do the shlibs hack
<didrocks> not mandatory, still an option if you want
<didrocks> I don't have strong opinions
<didrocks> jbicha: just override dh_shlibdeps with -X
<oSoMoN> didrocks, do you mind if I merge https://github.com/ubuntu/snapcraft-desktop-helpers/pull/87 ?
<oSoMoN> or do you want to review it too?
<kenvandine> oSoMoN, i was about hit merge that :)
<oSoMoN> kenvandine, then please go ahead!
<kenvandine> oSoMoN, can you give PR 86 a test?
<kenvandine> it works great with the platform snap
<oSoMoN> checking
<didrocks> oSoMoN: yeah, kenvandine is maintaining it more than I do now :)
<kenvandine> oSoMoN, thx
<oSoMoN> I pinged didrocks out of habitâ¦
<didrocks> :)
<oSoMoN> kenvandine, what generates the mime.cache file in the gnome platform snap?
<kenvandine> oSoMoN, http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop/+junk/gnome-3-26-1604/view/head:/snapcraft.yaml#L85
<oSoMoN> ok, so IÂ could do something similar in the libreoffice snap
<oSoMoN> PR #86 seems to work well, +1 from me
<oSoMoN> kenvandine, feel free to merge
 * oSoMoN â chiropractor
<kenvandine> oSoMoN, thx
 * kenvandine triggers rebuilds of all the gnome snaps to pickup the new helpers
<cyphermox> willcooke: around?
<willcooke> cyphermox, otp, but can reply async
<cyphermox> ack
<willcooke> night all.  London tomorrow so won't be around first thing probably.
<robert_ancell> kenvandine: hi!
<kenvandine> hey robert_ancell
#ubuntu-desktop 2017-11-30
<kenvandine> jamesh, hey
<kenvandine> jamesh, we merged both of the helper PRs today
<kenvandine> jamesh, i tested with a gnome snap using the platform and oSoMoN tested one using desktop-gtk3
<kenvandine> both worked... but looking at the forum it looks like some others using desktop-gtk3 are hitting issues
<kenvandine> jamesh, https://forum.snapcraft.io/t/running-gtk3-app-as-snap-cannot-find-schemas/2991
<kenvandine> and
<kenvandine> https://forum.snapcraft.io/t/glib-error-snap-not-working-anymore/2990
<kenvandine> abort loading schemas
<kenvandine> :/
<kenvandine> jamesh, i've also rebuilt all of the gnome snaps and tested them
<kenvandine> all worked fine
<jamesh> kenvandine: looking
<kenvandine> but of course those are using the gnome platform snap
<kenvandine> so i think it's just a problem without the platform snap
<kenvandine> but oSoMoN had tested that, but I think with just one snp
<kenvandine> snap
<kenvandine> oh, maybe his didn't need schemas
<jamesh> kenvandine: this is weird.  I wouldn't have expected any behaviour change for desktop-gtk3, since we shouldn't have any gschemas.compiled
<jamesh> trying out the linked snapcraft.yaml
<kenvandine> yeah, me either
<kenvandine> jamesh, i need to step away, but if you get  a fix ping me and i'll get it merged quickly
<jamesh> okay
<kenvandine> jamesh, can you ping me on telegram?
<jamesh> sure
<kenvandine> and i'll hop on
<kenvandine> thx
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<andyrock> good morning seb128
<oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers!
<seb128> hey andyrock oSoMoN
<oSoMoN> salut seb128
<oSoMoN> Ã§a va?
<seb128> oSoMoN, nickel, levÃ© un peu tÃ´t Ã  mon gout (5h30) mais Ã§a devient une habitude
<seb128> du moins d'habitude c'est plutÃ´t 6h15
<seb128> et toi ?
<oSoMoN> Ã§a va bien, moi je me suis levÃ© plus tard que dâhabitude aujourdâhui, 6:30 :)
<oSoMoN> la diffÃ©rence thermique entre sous la couette et dehors Ã©tait dissuasive
<willcooke> morning gang
<seb128> hehe
<seb128> hey willcooke, how is London today?
<oSoMoN> hey willcooke
<willcooke> It's pretty cold here today
<willcooke> Luckily no delays on the train so I didnt have to stand outside very much :)
<willcooke> No such luck for didrocks though, flight delayed for de-icing
<doko> willcooke: why is cdbs seeded in supported-desktop-extra? can we remove it?
<willcooke> doko: is there anything else keeping it in main? Well, maybe not needed nowdays as it's only a build-dep
<doko> willcooke: I don't think so. Please reply to https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/cdbs/+bug/1735395
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1735395 in cdbs (Ubuntu) "cdbs: demote the package or use Python3 instead of Python2" [Undecided,New]
<willcooke> doko, ack
<willcooke> seb128, you OK to drop it from the seeds?  didrocks is +1 ^
<doko> willcooke: same for https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/subversion/+bug/1735403
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1735403 in subversion (Ubuntu) "supported-development-desktop seeds subversion and subversion-tools (Python2)" [Undecided,New]
<willcooke> doko, +1 to remove.  (also: wow! ;) )  Commented on bug
<kenvandine> jamesh, thanks for that fix
<seb128> doko, could you please stop assigning bugs to "ubuntu-desktop", that's the wrong team and leads to spam on the desktop mailing list which is used as contact for that one
<doko> seb128: which team instead?
<seb128> doko, you can using canonical-desktop-team if that's the intend
<doko> ok
<seb128> or don't assign to a team and just assume whoever has interest to the package already receive bug emails
<doko> seb128: where is this documented?
<seb128> thanks
<seb128> I don't think it is
<xnox> seb128, which team assignement do you use to prioritise rls-incoming bugs for your team? and which team is used as subscriber for those reports? usually same one as the MIR subscriber team.
<xnox> i believe the current mapping is ubuntu-desktop, and maybe that needs updating.
<seb128> xnox, desktop-packages
<xnox> ah
<seb128> and I doubt it is ubuntu-desktop
<seb128> xnox, oh, since you are around, did you see that Steve had a question for you on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/systemd/+bug/1727237 ?
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1727237 in systemd (Ubuntu) "systemd-resolved is not finding a domain" [High,Triaged]
<doko> willcooke: update the seeds, will follow-up tomorrow once the changes are published
<willcooke> doko, update = updated?
<willcooke> i.e. you have done already?
<doko> yes, just committed
<doko> willcooke: unrelated, but just because libglade2 is connected with Python2. do you have a baseline what needs to be done to demote the gtk2 stack?
<willcooke> doko, thanks!
<willcooke> doko, @ gtk2 - jbicha has been looking at that I think
<gQuigs> doko: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-gnome/+bug/1585903
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1585903 in Ubuntu GNOME "Make it possible to remove gtk2" [Wishlist,Triaged]
<jbicha> doko: are you planning to have Firefox not support Flash at all? because that seems like a pretty big blocker to demoting gtk2
<doko> jbicha: I don't have any shares in firefox. and no foundations doesn't maintain rust either
<jbicha> I'm working to reducing the number of things in a default Ubuntu 18.04 install (at least in English) that depends on gtk2 (maybe even to 0)
<jbicha> but dropping gtk2 from main is something much bigger than that
<doko> jbicha: I really would recommend filing bugs like I do for py2-demotion.  Then you at least know what needs to be done
<jbicha> maybe, it's not something I think is that important this year
<jbicha> doko: since you seem eager to demote and remove, do you want to handle some of the removals from LP: #1710318 ?
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1710318 in xiphos (Ubuntu) "Please remove webkit1 rdepends removed from Debian Testing" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1710318
<doko> you have to break down big tasks ...
<doko> sorry, haven't looked at that at all
<jbicha> full webkit2gtk removal is blocked on packaging gnucash 2.7 https://github.com/Gnucash/gnucash/releases
<jbicha> doko: well since you're asking everyone else to look at stuff, I thought I'd return the favor ;)
<jbicha> *full webkitgtk removal
<jbicha> the webkitgtk removal bug was filed a few months ago and is actually planned for 18.04 LTS
<doko> jbicha: well, upload it, and then remove
<jbicha> could you talk to slangasek about gnucash since he's the developer that is most interested in it working from what I've heard
<jbicha> since you're asking me to do stuff, I'm asking you to do stuff in exchange :)
<gQuigs> Flash support will be removed from Firefox before 20.04 LTS, just saying... https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Plugins/Roadmap
<jbicha> gQuigs: yes, but do_ko seemed impatient ;)
<jbicha> seb128: the USB seeds haven't been used for anything in years, right?
<jbicha> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/ubuntu.bionic/files
<jbicha> doko: I think webkitgtk removal is arguably Foundation's job anyway but I've done a lot of the work so far :)
<doko> jbicha: webkit was mostly maintained by desktop and security, afaik. but why not just upload a new gnucash?
<Trevinho> ah, hey guys
<jbicha> doko: slangasek already started on that job, but there's been a new point release since then. I'd rather not duplicate his work and I don't use gnucash
<jbicha> wk removal at this point is mostly an AA job
<seb128> jbicha, I don't know for what it was used exactly before, I don't think we provided an usb iso, some people might still use today for the same things it was used before
<seb128> jbicha, could be a question for the devel list?
<jbicha> seb128: but as far as we know, there isn't anything to actually build a unique USB version of Ubuntu with those extra packages, right?
<seb128> correct
<seb128> I don't remember if that seed was ever used to build an image
<seb128> or what was the intend
<jbicha> I think it was used to build a larger image back when we tried to fit things on a CD
<jbicha> I'm asking now because inkscape (still gtk2) is seeded there but we don't need inkscape in main, right?
<doko> hehe, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/inkscape/+bug/1735363
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1735363 in inkscape (Ubuntu) "inkscape: Use/Port of Python3 needed, or considering demotion" [Undecided,New]
<gQuigs> jbicha: there have been various usb images over the years   -http://old-releases.ubuntu.com/releases/intrepid/ http://old-releases.ubuntu.com/releases/9.04/
<seb128> jbicha, the usb set is keeping things in main? anyway I don't think that seed makes any sense nowadays since our current iso is basically an usb one, can you email devel about removing it see if anyone know of a reason not?
<jbicha> ok
<didrocks> nice, plane back is already delayed by an hour
 * didrocks should arrive at 1:30am at best at home :/
<jbicha> seb128: oh, there is an "Ubuntu desktop USB" task in tasksel
<jbicha> but the packages remaining in the usb seed feel like very odd choices now
<willcooke> Trevinho, we're trying the xrandr scaling fix to fake fractional scaling under xorg on 17.10, but the mouse now only goes halfway across the screen.  I think that's a known issue - but is there another way to get 1.5x scaling under gnome shell and xorg by changing the xorg conf file or something like that?
<Trevinho> willcooke: so that xorg bug is known
<Trevinho> willcooke: and there's a fix upstream which #workshere
<Trevinho> but... not pushed or reviewed for ages
<Trevinho> but I'm using that patch locally for a while and I noticed no problems with it
<willcooke> Trevinho, got a ppa? :)
<Trevinho> willcooke: nope, just compiled manualliy
<Trevinho> willcooke: see https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xorg-server/+bug/883319
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 883319 in X.Org X server "xrandr --scale restricts area in which mouse moves" [High,Incomplete]
<Trevinho> this is the patch v
<Trevinho> https://bugs.freedesktop.org/attachment.cgi?id=94929
<Trevinho> I pinged some time ago tjaalton about it, but he rightfully said we need to wait upstream to review it. It's just taht it's getting oooold.
<mdeslaur> lol @ hostname in that bug ("jos@samsungsucks:~$ lsb_release -rd")
<kenvandine> lol
<Trevinho> :-D
<Trevinho> willcooke: as for other ways to get that... I'm not sure to be fair, I've never checked but there should be a way.
<Trevinho> I wanted mutter to do it as fallback, but since this xorg issue and the fact that there's no acceleration on it, I'm not sure if it's a solution for all the problems
<Trevinho> we can try to have that though
<Trevinho> it was my fallback idea for having the shell to scale fractionally even on x11
<willcooke> Trevinho, np - got it to work with the --panning hack
<willcooke> thanks
<Trevinho> willcooke: oh, but with panning it will move around the screen, no?
<willcooke> we set it to be the size of the new virtual desktop
<willcooke> seems to work
<oSoMoN> good night all
#ubuntu-desktop 2017-12-01
<oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers!
<oSoMoN> and happy Friday
<Nafallo> o/
<didrocks> good morning
<Nafallo> either you've had coffee already, or you have different standards of mornings :-P
<didrocks> I have no standard so far
<Nafallo> :-)
<didrocks> I've slept 2h, went to London HQ yesterday (woke up at 4am), went back home with a delayed flight at 2am, slept 5hâ¦
<didrocks> so morning, afternoon, night, unsure at this point :)
<Nafallo> :-O
<Nafallo> I tend to be grumpy before coffee, and with that schedule I'd probably not even show up today ;-)
<didrocks> well, tonight is EOY holidays \o/
<didrocks> couldn't take any this year, using them all in one shot!
<Nafallo> I was about to say that's a little early :-P
<Nafallo> I had the same situation one of the years at Canonical.
<Nafallo> ended up having every friday off for november and december IIRC ;-)
<Nafallo> and thursday and friday the last week or two :-P
<didrocks> heh, short weeks!
<didrocks> still need to take some time off today to see the ear doctor
<didrocks> travelling with a stuffed ear (can't ear anything) is a bad idea
<Nafallo> can't blame the jetlag?
<didrocks> no, I already got a heavy cold since last Saturday
<Nafallo> ah
<didrocks> but I wasn't expecting to have that much pain when the plan started its descent
<didrocks> plane*
<Nafallo> as long as it's reproducible and you don't need to bring the doctor on a trip somewhere.
<didrocks> heh
<oSoMoN> didrocks, lucky you (re holidays), enjoy and take care of your family and yourself!
<Nafallo> ...and your ear.
<didrocks> merci oSoMoN ;)
<Nafallo> :-)
<didrocks> yeah, that's the part I'm a little bit more concerned aboutâ¦
<didrocks> apparently, there can be damaged travelling in that state
<didrocks> we'll see what the doctor says
<didrocks> will*
<willcooke> ahoy
<oSoMoN> morning willcooke
<didrocks> hey willcooke
 * didrocks goes to the doctor, bbl
<willcooke> l8r didrocks
<doko> willcooke: cdbs and subversion are now demoted
<willcooke> doko, super, thanks very much
<oSoMoN> wife and daughter are feeling unwell, I'm taking them to the doctor, bbiab
<Nafallo> morning willcooke
<willcooke> morning Nafallo
<willcooke> didrocks, I think I remember you talking about the shortcut keys on window management previously.  e.g. you hit alt-space to open the window menu and then in U7 you could hit "m" for maximise etc...  That doesn't work in G-Shell, is that something we can fix?
<didrocks> willcooke: I think it should be fixable, probably just an oversight, mind logging a bug/trello card to add that to our backlog?
<willcooke> didrocks, sure thing
<didrocks> shouldn't be a huge task
<didrocks> (ofc, no guarantee, blablabla)
<willcooke> natch :)
<didrocks> OR, I'll just use the excuse I was deliriously blabbing due to be back home at 2am yesterday :p
<willcooke> :))
<willcooke> Glad you made it home ok, it started snowing when I got home
<willcooke> (for about 10 mins)
<didrocks> yeah, it was snowing in Lyon as well
<didrocks> and when arrived, we waited for an additional 10 minutes on the plane
<didrocks> "waiting for the police to be at the border kiosk"
<didrocks> *frustration* :p
<didrocks> for you, despite the small snow and taking the train, everything uneventful?
<willcooke> yeah, no problems at all
<willcooke> met an old friend for a beer at the train station
<willcooke> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-shell/+bug/1735708
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1735708 in gnome-shell (Ubuntu) "Window control shortcut keys dont work" [Undecided,New]
<didrocks> nice!
<didrocks> and thx
<willcooke> andyrock, just going through the meeting notes for the news letter.  Is your gdu work to stop snaps showing up as drives?
<willcooke> and if so, have you got a link handy?
<willcooke> andyrock, ignore, found it:  https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=790279
<ubot5> Gnome bug 790279 in Disks UI "Gnome-disk-utility shows snap squashfs" [Normal,New]
<andyrock> willcooke: I'm updating the MP after the review
<andyrock> should be merged next week
<willcooke> sweet
<andyrock> we cannot apply the same solution in xenial
<andyrock> I'll propose a simple workaround as distropatch
<andyrock> the main reason is that it's required a newer version of libmount
<andyrock> and backport it does not sounds like a good idea
<willcooke> andyrock, ack +1
<kenvandine> willcooke, they finally firmed up the snapcraft summit details, but if i went the most i could stay is 2 days
<kenvandine> i'd need to leave early wednesday to make it to brussels in time
<kenvandine> so popey asked me if i could send someone else from my team, maybe jamesh
<kenvandine> jamesh to seattle isn't to bad of a trip
<willcooke> kenvandine, sounds like a good plan, if he's happy to
<Trevinho> hola amgos!
<Trevinho> amigos*
<didrocks> hey Trevinho
<willcooke> hey Trevinho
<Trevinho> hi didrocks, willcooke
<Trevinho> kenvandine: hey, would you mind to publish again https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2841 ?
<Trevinho> kenvandine: as unity-control-center had a changelog issue and SRU team had to reject
<oSoMoN> hey Trevinho
<Trevinho> hi oSoMoN
<kenvandine> Trevinho, done
<Trevinho> kenvandine: thanks, I might need to get another publish though... I didn't noticed willcooke email on neko's
<willcooke> :) soz
<Trevinho> willcooke: cmon! :-P
<willcooke> :DDD
<willcooke> you crazy
 * Trevinho looks for excuses not to rebuild, republish, re-sru-approve again that package :-D
<kenvandine> :)
<oSoMoN> have a good week-end everyone
<willcooke> night all
<willcooke> happy weekend!
#ubuntu-desktop 2018-11-26
<didrocks> good morning
<duflu> Morning didrocks
<didrocks> afternoon duflu
<ackk> hi, I have a clean cosmic install, using GNOME session with default (adwaita) theme. gnome application provided via snaps (calculator, system monitor,...) all show the default icon, is that a known issue?
<oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
<willcooke> morning crew
<seb128> back, good morning desktopers
<willcooke> hey seb128
<seb128> lut oSoMoN, hey willcooke
<oSoMoN> morning seb128, willcooke
<didrocks> hey oSoMoN, willcooke, seb128
<oSoMoN> salut didrocks
<willcooke> hey oSoMoN didrocks
<duflu> Morning willcooke, seb128, oSoMoN, Europe (for now)...
<oSoMoN> hey duflu
<willcooke> ahoy duflu, how goes?
<duflu> willcooke, it goes so so... which isn't bad. You?
<willcooke> much the same
<seb128> ackk, hey, not known no, what do you call "default icon"?
<seb128> lut didrocks, hey oSoMoN
<ackk> seb128, the diamond-shaped one with the gear in it
<ackk> seb128, the generic "executable" icon
<duflu> popey, wasn't 'discourse' going to replace 'community'?
<popey> it has, it redirects
<duflu> popey, oh, sometimes I get a different status, but not this week. *shrug*
<seb128> ackk, weird, and it works if you use the ubuntu theme instead?
<ackk> seb128, yes, yaru works
<seb128> k, weird
<willcooke> Message from Sarah in marketing: "I left my machine upgrading to 18.04 over the weekend and it worked flawlessly"
<seb128> \o/
<Laney> still alive
<Laney> just about
<duflu> Hi Laney
<duflu> Bye Laney, and all
<seb128> hey Laney, how are you?
<Laney> hi dupondje
<Laney> woah
<Laney> he actually quit
<Laney> well, hi dupondje anyway :-)
<Laney> and hey seb128
<Laney> not too bad, but ask me again in 2 hours :-)
<Laney> #drugs
<Laney> what about you?
<seb128> I'm ok, having an annoying cold which bothered me enough during the night that I couldn't sleep correctly so I'm tried today :/
<Laney> :(
<didrocks> hey Laney!
<dupondje> hi Laney  ;)
<ackk> seb128, should I open a bug for it? and if yes, where?
<seb128> ackk, I guess you can against gnome-shell (check maybe if there is already one)
<ackk> seb128, ok, thanks
<Trevinho> tjaalton: hey, can you please help with addressing https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/xorg/xserver/issues/14 ?
<gitbot> xorg issue 14 in xserver "Xorg crashes when it tries to resume a scale transformation after that Screen has been closed" [Opened]
<Trevinho> I've a fix for that, but I'm not completely happy with that, but while asking on xorg-devel, I didn't get any feedback so far
<Trevinho> if breaking the ABI is fine I can come with something better probably
<tjaalton> Trevinho: if it breaks the abi we can't push it to the distro, breaks nvidia then
<Trevinho> tjaalton: yeah, exaclty... So my change doesn't break anything
<Trevinho> tjaalton: if xorg is planning a new release then we can think about breaking it, but that's the reason why I did the change that way initially
<tjaalton> master bumped the abi already
<Trevinho> and is that not released yet?
<tjaalton> I'm not sure when 1.21 is due
<tjaalton> maybe next spring
<Trevinho> mh, I see... could you ask someone to help me know how to proceed with that?
<Trevinho> as I've asked around but no luck yet
<tjaalton> try ajax on #xorg-devel
<Trevinho> I did already
<tjaalton> ok?
<willcooke> night all
<Trevinho> tjaalton: well, no answer yet... I'll try again
<Trevinho> if you've no other strings to pull :)
<tjaalton> you could try lyude too
#ubuntu-desktop 2018-11-27
<didrocks> good morning
<duflu> Hi didrocks
<didrocks> salut duflu
<oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
<didrocks> salut oSoMoN
<oSoMoN> salut didrocks
<duflu> Hi oSoMoN
<oSoMoN> hi duflu
<seb128> hey again, good morning desktoper
<seb128> lut didrocks oSoMoN
<seb128> hey duflu
<seb128> how is it going here today?
<duflu> Hallo seb128. Going OK, and you?
<seb128> I'm fine, the cold is starting being a bit less annoying \o/
<oSoMoN> salut seb128
<seb128> (which means I slept better)
<seb128> oSoMoN, en forme? thanks for the libreoffice build fixes, seems to build fine now :)
<seb128> oSoMoN, re bug #1801383 I think it's just removing that line https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mozillateam/firefox/firefox.disco/view/head:/debian/apport/source_firefox.py.in#L1448 ... can you stage that in the vcs so it's in the next upload? or do you me to propose a mp for it? (also unsure but maybe the lines before can/should be dropped as well)
<ubot5> bug 1801383 in thunderbird (Ubuntu) "the WifiSyslog apport hook (used in firefox/tb) includes SSID informations" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1801383
<oSoMoN> seb128, la forme, oui! not sure this is the end of the story for libreoffice, there were some unit tests failures on amd64 yesterday, j_bicha retried it before I got a chance to investigate, let's see if it was just flakiness or something to really look into
<seb128> :/
<oSoMoN> seb128, on it (re bug #1801383)
<ubot5> bug 1801383 in thunderbird (Ubuntu) "the WifiSyslog apport hook (used in firefox/tb) includes SSID informations" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1801383
<seb128> the build log might still be available if you have the url?
<seb128> oSoMoN, thx
<oSoMoN> seb128, yeah, he sent me the URL, but at this point we're pretty far into the build already, so if it fails it will do so pretty soon, and if it doesn't then great
<seb128> oSoMoN, it built on several arches, finger crossed that it works this time on amd64 as well :)
<seb128> jamesh, hey, weekly summary reminder?
<jamesh> seb128: on it.
<oSoMoN> there's a trick: several arches ignore unit test failuresâ¦ amd64 is the real test :/
<seb128> jamesh, thx :)
<didrocks> hey again seb128
<seb128> oSoMoN, ah, I see, then let's see :/
<willcooke> morning
<seb128> hey willcooke, how are you today?
<willcooke> I'm ok!  How about you seb128?
<oSoMoN> 'morning willcooke
<andyrock> morning
<oSoMoN> hey andyrock
<seb128> willcooke, I'm good, got a few annoying days with a cold which was bothering we enough that I couldn't sleep properly but this night/today starts being better
<seb128> hey andyrock! had a good long w.e? ;)
<andyrock> seb128: long w.e. \o/
<andyrock> long = good
<andyrock> seb128: what about you?
<willcooke> seb128, get yourself a flu shot :) The boy will be brining all sorts of nasty stuff home with him :)
<seb128> haha
<seb128> I did that one once, I don't think I'm going to make it again
<andyrock> you mean babies or flu shots?
<popey> Morning desktoppers :)
<andyrock> ð
<seb128> it made me sick the year I did it, and I never really got a flu otherwise (or maybe once now, this year in january for the trip to south africa)
<seb128> andyrock, lol :)
<seb128> hey popey
<seb128> willcooke, but yeah, with the kid the situation might be different :)
<oSoMoN> seb128, https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mozillateam/firefox/firefox.disco/revision/1239 (and in the process of applying the same change to the branches for all supported series)
<seb128> oSoMoN, thx!
<seb128> oSoMoN, did you see my comment about the previous lines? unsure how useful alsa/network info are, I guess alsa ones are not a privacy problem in any case
<seb128> oSoMoN, but in any case wifi is a known problem/what the bug was about so should be good enough
 * duflu blinks
<Laney> hey ho
<duflu> Oh good morning willcooke, andyrock, popey, Laney
<seb128> hey Laney! how are you today?
<seb128> did you recover fine from yesterday morning?
<Laney> seems fine
<Laney> getting a cough/cold now though :<
<seb128> :(
<seb128> I hope it's not the same I got
<Laney> yeah that sounds like it's been annoying
<Laney> hopefully it just goes away
<seb128> yeah
<Laney> hey duflu too ;-)
<seb128> oSoMoN, reading your weekly summary, you say that bug #1795169 is fixed in gnome-shell 3.31, it would probably be a good idea to update the bug to add/reassign to gnome-shell and maybe reference the commit so we can see if andyrock or Trevinho can look at backporting the fix to disco/cosmic/bionic?
<ubot5> bug 1795169 in firefox (Ubuntu Bionic) "Focus switches constantly between username and password fields" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1795169
<oSoMoN> seb128, indeed, will do
<seb128> thx
<seb128> I hate those OSK flakyness issues around GTK_IM_MODULE
<seb128> andyrock, do you still have work/fixes around that you wanted to land?
<oSoMoN> seb128, I marked that bug (and another one) as duplicate of bug #1765304
<ubot5> bug 1765304 in gnome-shell (Ubuntu) "Ubuntu 18.04's ibus package breaks password fields in Firefox (by lowering & raising window whenever they're focused)" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1765304
<oSoMoN> shall IÂ nominate for bionic
<oSoMoN> ?
<seb128> oSoMoN, sure, thx
<oSoMoN> done
<seb128> great
<seb128> seems like the fix also has been commited to 3-30 upstream, so should be easy to backport/SRU to cosmic
<andyrock> seb128: the GTK_IM_MODULE is a different one
<andyrock> basically on a wayland session we're still using the ibus im-module instead of the wayland one (text-input protocol)
<andyrock> the password problem is due to the fact that gnome-shell uses ibus to track focus changes
<andyrock> and ibus does not track password fields
<andyrock> oSoMoN: ^^^
<andyrock> gnome-shell used to have a different mechanism to track the cursor
<andyrock> but osk is broken in x11 in general because usually the ibus method is disabled
<oSoMoN> seb128, andyrock:Â the firefox problem with password fields only affects bionic, cosmic and disco are fine
<seb128> oSoMoN, so it's not that gnome-shell commit that fixes it, since that's not in cosmic/disco
<andyrock> yeah because 1765304 has nothing to do with osk?
<andyrock> I thought we were talking about a different bug :)
<oSoMoN> hrm, need to read the whole thing again, I'm confused now, just a minute, multitasking doesn't help
<andyrock> I guess the problem is in ibus
<andyrock> "because it only happens (in 18.04) when the environmental variable GTK_IM_MODULE is at its default value (which is "ibus")"
<andyrock> that variable basically forces a gtk application to load the ibus module
<andyrock> not loading that module seems to fix the issue, but what about languages that actually nead ibus?
<andyrock> seb128: in a nutshell, yeah we should understand why we still have that enviroment variable
<andyrock> seb128: g-s-d should be smart enough to enable ibus when required
<seb128> right, I'm adding that to my backlog of things I would to discuss/get sorted out
<seb128> but maybe not today, I guess you are busy or on other thing and same here (also on my way to lunch now)
<seb128> andyrock, thx, also g-c-c/cosmic looks good but it needs a SRU bug (standard GNOME update one, see #1790876 for a minimalistic example)
<andyrock> kk let me finish the fix for update-manager before
<andyrock> I'm trying to understand how to properly do threading with glib and python
<andyrock> they suggest to use the threading library but it's not clear how to handle cancellation properly
<andyrock> seb128: is this good enough for SRU https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-control-center/+bug/1804424
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1804424 in gnome-control-center (Ubuntu) "Segmentation fault when region panel is closed during init" [Medium,Fix released]
<andyrock> or do I need to create a separate SRU bug?
<acheronuk> libreoffice amd64 failed again :(
<seb128> acheronuk, oSoMoN, libreoffice amd64 build :(
<seb128> andyrock, I think it's best to have one for the version update
<acheronuk> seb128: looks like the tests. those I have no idea on
<andyrock> seb128: https://code.launchpad.net/~azzar1/update-manager/fix-lp-1805118/+merge/359621
<seb128> andyrock, oh, nice one. Is that different from what you were talking about earlier or did it turn out to be simpler that what you were first poking at?
<andyrock> seb128: simpler
<seb128> \o/
<andyrock> nothing to do with threading and bla bla
<andyrock> looked like it
<seb128> heh, I like it better this way :I've to day :)
<seb128> say
<seb128> jamesh, weekly summary re-reminder?
<andyrock> seb128: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-control-center/+bug/1805441
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1805441 in gnome-control-center (Ubuntu) "SRU 3.30.2 to Cosmic" [Undecided,New]
<seb128> andyrock, thx
<andyrock> seb128: let me update the changelog entry too
<seb128> andyrock, great work on the description! :) (also probably no need to do that much of a good job for a standard GNOME update next time, but it's up to you)
<andyrock> I followed La_ney's standards
<andyrock> :D
<seb128> :)
<willcooke> kenvandine, we lost you
<willcooke> #startmeeting Desktop Team Meeting 2018-11-27
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Nov 27 14:30:37 2018 UTC.  The chair is willcooke. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/RHiGQXZJ/ubuntu-desktop-1904-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Desktop Team Meeting 2018-11-27 | Current topic:
<willcooke> Hi all
<Nafallo> o/
<willcooke> Roll call: andyrock, dgadomski, didrocks, duflu (out), jbicha, jamesh (out), jibel, kenvandine, laney, oSoMoN, seb128, tkamppeter, trevinho, robert_ancell (out)
<seb128> _o/
<tseliot> o/
<jibel> o/
<kenvandine> o/
<willcooke> Just give people a couple of mins
<tjaalton> \o
<didrocks> hey
<willcooke> Oki
<willcooke> So rls bug updates from the bullet list looks pretty good.
<oSoMoN> o/
<willcooke> So we can go through the incoming, then hand over to laney for the other bugs, then AOB
<willcooke> bb incoming
<willcooke> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-bb-incoming-bug-tasks.html
<willcooke> That url-dispatcher one as always, but nothing new
<seb128> I'm going to get that one of the list
<willcooke> should I assign one of the tasks to you?
<andyrock> o/
<willcooke> or all of them, or none of them>?
<willcooke> or nothing
<seb128> none, just wontfix for that serie
<willcooke> ack
<seb128> the initial problem was worked around
<willcooke> thanks seb128
<seb128> so that's non important to fix the remaining in bionic
<seb128> np
<willcooke> cc incoming: http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-cc-incoming-bug-tasks.html
<willcooke> 1 bug, twice.  Assigned to tjaalton.
<willcooke> Nothing new
<seb128> he has a package in a ppa for testing
<willcooke> cool
<tjaalton> yeah
<seb128> if anyone feels like giving it a try (I might, just failing to get to that point of my todo atm)
<tjaalton> marked it 'incomplete' now
<tjaalton> was only for disco
<willcooke> I will spin up a VM this afternoon
<willcooke> dd-incoming: http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-dd-incoming-bug-tasks.html
<willcooke> 2 bugs.
<Laney> (we should be deleting incoming when nominating, that cosmic one was already accepted)
<andyrock> removed
<willcooke> thanks Laney
<willcooke> I went to change it but you already had
<Laney> :3
<willcooke> :)
<seb128> I though the report was smart enough to not list things with an accepted serie targetting, seems not :/
<willcooke> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xorg-server/+bug/1805200
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1805200 in xorg-server (Ubuntu Disco) "Xorg crashes when it tries to resume a scale transformation after that Screen has been closed. Crashed in __strlen_avx2() from transform_filter_length() from ProcRRGetCrtcTransform()" [High,Triaged]
<willcooke> assigned, and targetted so I assume it's accepted too
<willcooke> oh
 * willcooke reads it
<willcooke> ah right
<willcooke> oki, we should talk about it then
<willcooke> I would be +1 for accepting since we need it for fractional scaling under x
<seb128> +1
<willcooke> anyone against?
<kenvandine> +1
<Laney> tjaalton accepted it himself already, not much to say there I don't think
<willcooke> oki, removed the tag
<seb128> Marco got upstream comments now which is good :)
<willcooke> \o/
<willcooke> Here ends the bug review.  Not too shabby
<willcooke> Laney, over to you
<Laney> yeh
<Laney> so
<Laney> #link https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/update_excuses_by_team.html#desktop-packages
<Laney> idea is to see if there's anything on there that should be worked on
<Laney> I saw seb128 asked foundations to look at that n-m failure caused by dnsmasq, seems sensible
<willcooke> +1
<Laney> apart from that...
<Laney> jbicha: did you want to say something about that sane thing or tracker?
<Laney> there's some history with those two that I don't fully know
<Laney> maybe we can talk about those later on
<willcooke> yeah
<Laney> so I think v4l-utils and at-spi2-core could do with being handled
<Laney> udisks2 just needs the hint updated
<Laney> (done)
<seb128> the at-spi2-core tests seem flackyness, I retried
<seb128> (first was blocked on depwait from meson, but that got cleared yesterday)
<seb128> or said differently I'm looking at that one
<seb128> v4l-utils seems a real build issue, I just looked at debian/upstream, no obvious report/fix there
<Laney> thx
<seb128> does anyone to have a look to that one?
<Laney> maybe we can ask foundations if anyone can look at apport to de-flake the tests
<jbicha> sane-backends probably needs a transitional package added in Ubuntu & Debian
<Laney> k, are you handling it?
 * Laney didn't follow that situation and is happy to not know about it :-)
<jbicha> see LP: #1804550 and Debian bug 913346
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1804550 in sane-backends (Ubuntu) "New version 1.0.27-3.1 all libsane-common does not update" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1804550
<ubot5> Debian bug 913346 in sane-backends "libsane1: Cannot update libsane1" [Serious,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/913346
<seb128> @apport, I can do that, but the failing tests had "WARNING: cannot connect to: https://api.launchpad.net/devel.." so I wonder if that was a temp infra problem
<jbicha> https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/tracker/issues/61 & https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/tracker/issues/59 are blocking the autopkgtests
<gitbot> GNOME issue 61 in tracker "tracker-miner-fs test: Parent recursive/4 not indexed yet" [Opened]
<gitbot> GNOME issue 59 in tracker "functional-16-collation test failures" [Opened]
<Laney> http://autopkgtest.ubuntu.com/packages/apport/disco/amd64
<Laney> they probably want to handle it being unreliable in the tests / apport itself
<jbicha> the tracker autopkgtest failures are fallout from my switching the package to meson
<seb128> Laney, fair enough
<seb128> I take that item as well
<jbicha> I'm not handling sane-backends right now
<Laney> k, well that can sit there then
<jbicha> I don't think tracker being stuck is blocking anything yet
<Laney> if you can work with upstream on those tracker failures please
<Laney> not sure it was required to ping me about debootstrap, I'm sure you can manage that, but if you really can't then I can help I guess
<Laney> that's the end
<willcooke> thanks Laney
<Laney> except someone to look at https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/v4l-utils/1.16.1-2/+build/15637736 - not super urgent but we should do it at some point
<willcooke> Do we still need a volunteer for v4l-utils
<willcooke> ?
<willcooke> ha
<willcooke> yes
<willcooke> We'll see if we can find a volunteer by EOW
<seb128> or wait, I don't think it's blocking anything else atm
<willcooke> kk
<willcooke> #topic AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/RHiGQXZJ/ubuntu-desktop-1904-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Desktop Team Meeting 2018-11-27 | Current topic: AOB
<willcooke> popey, you had one
<popey> ya
<seb128> unsure how to handle best those non urgent items, if we keep asking, or just force an owner
<popey> I thought you might appreciate an "Ubuntu Desktop in the wild".
<popey> "CuriousMarc" YouTube channel has a series of videos where they're repairing the Apollo Guidance Computer
<Laney> should eventually assign someone
<popey> I keep seeing Ubuntu pop up in it.
<popey> Mike Stewart - one of the experts doing the repair (and actual Space Engineer for SpaceX) uses Ubuntu on a ThinkPad. :)
<oSoMoN> nice
<popey> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2KSahAoOLdU is episode 1
<popey> Worth a watch if you like historic electronics, space, or seeing random 50 year-old document scans on Ubuntu :)
<popey> https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/6H5u76yG/Screenshot%20from%202018-11-27%2014-31-10.png
<kenvandine> cool
<popey> EOM
<seb128> nice one popey :)
<willcooke> seb128, Laney - yeah, if it's still hanging around next week then we can assign someone.  Is that sort of timescale acceptable, or does it need attention in days?
<seb128> imho waiting a week is fine, but then we can as well find an assignee now and state that it can be looked at when possible/not as an high priority
<Laney> you guys think about who you might want to assign before the next meeting :-)
<Laney> looks like it's around gl stuff
<willcooke> kk, lets look more in to it
<willcooke> any more business?
<didrocks> nothing for me
<willcooke> sounds like not
<andyrock> nope
<willcooke> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/RHiGQXZJ/ubuntu-desktop-1904-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Nov 27 15:02:35 2018 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-desktop/2018/ubuntu-desktop.2018-11-27-14.30.moin.txt
<willcooke> thanks all
<willcooke> I see the gl errors now
<andyrock> thx
<didrocks> thx
<oSoMoN> thanks
<willcooke> perhaps something to do with qt too
<seb128> thx!
<seb128> andyrock, I sponsored your update-manager fix to disco and handled the bionic SRU as well, g-c-c next :)
<andyrock> thx!
<andyrock> seb128: I'm preparing dash-to-dock
<andyrock> I need to review some fixes from Marco before
<seb128> k, thx
<willcooke> andyrock, oooooh, does your dash-to-dock update include: https://github.com/micheleg/dash-to-dock/issues/639 by any chance?
<gitbot> micheleg issue 639 in dash-to-dock "[request] Do not reorder window thumbnails after clicking on them" [Enhancement, Open]
<willcooke> oh, actually, ignore that, seems its still in a branch, and would probably need config UI which we dont have yet
<andyrock> mmm I was not planning to sync dash-to-dock with ubuntu-dock
<willcooke> yeah, no worries
<seb128> andyrock, also that didn't land to dash-to-dock, it's just a branch
<willcooke> that v4l-utils is only arm64
<seb128> willcooke, it would be useful if you could reach out to Michel maybe via email to ask if we can do anything to help that one landing or if he would be fine if we distro patched it
<willcooke> seb128, good idea, will do
<seb128> thx
<seb128> willcooke, @v4l-utils, yeah, could be specific to the arch or could be that some other package was updated before it built and other archs would hit the same problem now...
<willcooke> ahh
<willcooke> I found mention of a patch that fixed similar errors, but was a year old
<seb128> andyrock, that g-c-c segfault mentioned in the SRU changelog, the bug was no SRU compliant, I fixed that for you now. But the segfault from the bt/change is in the power code but you description states "Fix crash in region panel" so I just want to check there is no confusion/wrong bug being referenced
<andyrock> there are two crashes in the region panel
<andyrock> let me check again
<andyrock> oh yeah it's power
<andyrock> fixing
<andyrock> sorry about that
<seb128> no worry
<seb128> thx :)
<seb128> andyrock, let me know when you are done amending your changelog
<andyrock> seb128: done!
<seb128> andyrock, thx!
<andyrock> I also divided the commits again
<seb128> andyrock, can we do without the pq-rebasing changes?
<andyrock> why?
<seb128> SRU team doesn't like diff "noise"
<seb128> makes the review harder
<andyrock> kk
<seb128> thx
<andyrock> let me check which patches I need to drop
<seb128> sorry about that, I though I mentioned it at first when we discussed that SRU
<seb128> well, no need to drop things
<seb128> just discard the useless pq changes of the day
<andyrock> mmm there are quilt patches that need to be removed because already upstream
<andyrock> only one iirc
<seb128> that's fine, just git rm and edit the serie?
<seb128> I mean no need to use pq for that right?
<andyrock> yep
<andyrock> I mean there was just a couple of lines more
<andyrock> but if SRU team does not like them :P
<andyrock> seb128: https://git.launchpad.net/~azzar1/ubuntu/+source/gnome-control-center/commit/?id=306a080877c0d8e1e6719496fa05fe3d5670debc
<andyrock> I building it just to make sure it works
<seb128> andyrock, great, thx
<andyrock> seb128: it builds
<seb128> andyrock, ship it! :)
<andyrock> I pushed it already
<andyrock> seb128: do you know if there has been any progress about removing ubuntu-one reviews from gnome-software upstream ?
<seb128> I don't know about that one, maybe kenvandine does
<seb128> I read that they enabled odrs reviews in the snap
<seb128> but unsure where we are for Ubuntu/deb
<kenvandine> it's in the snap-store snap
<kenvandine> i'll check the deb
<kenvandine> seb128: odrs is enabled in disco but so is ubuntu-reviews
<kenvandine> i'll talk to robert
<seb128> andyrock, minor but you can't re-use the same version between series, I change g-c-c to be 3.30.2-1ubuntu0.18.10.1
<seb128> kenvandine, thx
<seb128> andyrock, you want it disabled because it's blocking other work right?
<andyrock> kenvandine, seb128: yeah we can't merge the work I proposed to use gnome-online-accounts in gnome-software until the reviews plugin is still there
<kenvandine> we should completely remove it upstream as the servers are going away
<seb128> andyrock, kenvandine, maybe best to use email to ask a status update from Robert?
<seb128> kenvandine, or do you just talk to him and keep us updated tomorrow?
<kenvandine> i will talk to him this afternoon
<seb128> thx
<kenvandine> np
<andyrock> seb128: thx for the change. I didn't know that
<seb128> andyrock, np, uploaded now!
<Laney> https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/DCkJgcCw6g/
<Laney> think that'll fix v4l thingy
<willcooke> typo on line 17
<willcooke> also: thank you!
<Laney> line 17 is context
<willcooke> ohhh
<willcooke> right
<Laney> that diff is incomplete though, I missed the third line of the depends and the second alternate in the first line
<Laney> is building https://launchpad.net/~ci-train-ppa-service/+archive/ubuntu/3538/+packages
<andyrock> Trevinho: https://github.com/micheleg/dash-to-dock/pull/838
<gitbot> micheleg issue (Pull request) 838 in dash-to-dock "docking: Fix leaking signal connection " [Open]
<andyrock> Trevinho: I updated the patch
<andyrock> Trevinho: I'm also taking a look at https://github.com/micheleg/dash-to-dock/issues/835
<gitbot> micheleg issue 835 in dash-to-dock "Anyone maintaining this issue tracker?" [Open]
<Trevinho> good thanks
<andyrock> sorry wrong link
<andyrock> Trevinho: also if you can merge it in the ubuntu-dock branch too
<andyrock> Trevinho: https://github.com/micheleg/dash-to-dock/pull/825
<gitbot> micheleg issue (Pull request) 825 in dash-to-dock "dash, docking: remove Shell.GenericContainer" [Open]
<andyrock> would this break live-updating ?
<andyrock> we don't care about live-updating in ubuntu-dock
<Trevinho> live updating... you mean?
<Trevinho> ahhhh
<Trevinho> ok
<Trevinho> yeah, should not to be honest, but in any case yes... I've the branch locally already I think
<Trevinho> I push that to Ubuntu
<andyrock> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=688973
<ubot5> Gnome bug 688973 in extensions "Class naming clashes prevent extensions from installation" [Critical,Resolved: wontfix]
<andyrock> wondering if that has been fixed
<Trevinho> andyrock: pushed https://github.com/micheleg/dash-to-dock/commits/ubuntu-dock
<andyrock> ah you pushed your change, I meant mine :D
<Trevinho> ouch :D
<andyrock> Trevinho: ^^^
<Trevinho> well, that should be there anyways, I'll do both
<andyrock> we're going to increase the delta between ubuntu-dock and dash-to-dock
<andyrock> seb128: wdyt?
<Trevinho> said that... both changes are proposed in both branches
<andyrock> a bit of context: without this change dash-to-dock/ubuntu-dock does not work on gnome-shell upstream
<Trevinho> and i theory I could merge upstream too, but don't want to overstep
<Trevinho> (soon to be 3.32)
<andyrock> and last commit on dash-to-dock was months ago :(
<andyrock> if we all agree I can prepare the upload right now
<Trevinho> andyrock: I've synced the changelog already https://github.com/micheleg/dash-to-dock/commits/ubuntu-dock so just need to prepare the src
<Trevinho> on other lands, anyone looked at https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/3519 yet?
<Trevinho> And this needs sponsor too https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/3448
<willcooke> bon nuit
<cyphermox> hey, is there a way I can deactivate the on-screen keyboard from ever showing up when I use a touch-screen?
<sarnold> apt-get purge nano is the first thing I do on new ubuntu / debian systems.. it might be overkill but might help :)
<sarnold> (or is it pico I purge? I can never remember which is which)
<cyphermox> we do ship nano by default in standard
<kenvandine> andyrock: robert_ancell is going to submit an MR for gnome-software removing the ubuntu-reviews plugin
<andyrock> thx
<robert_ancell> andyrock, kenvandine https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gnome-software/merge_requests/145
<gitbot> GNOME issue (Merge request) 145 in gnome-software "ubuntu-reviews: Retire Ubuntu Reviews plugin" [Opened]
<robert_ancell> andyrock, is the ubuntuone plugin only used by the Ubuntu reviews plugin?
<andyrock> yep!
<andyrock> snap is using is own auth
<xnox> https://objectstorage.prodstack4-5.canonical.com/v1/AUTH_77e2ada1e7a84929a74ba3b87153c0ac/autopkgtest-disco/disco/ppc64el/m/meson/20181126_225118_9f227@/log.gz
<xnox> looks like g-ir-scanner is failing on ppc64el in disco?
<xnox> search for:
<xnox> FAILED: gir/dep1/MesonDep1-1.0.gir
<seb128> Trevinho, andyrock, having ubuntu-dock/dash-to-dock diverging if it's temporary should be ok
<seb128> robert_ancell, andyrock, kenvandine, did we migrate ubuntu proper (the archive deb) to use ODRS now?
<robert_ancell> seb128, not yet
<robert_ancell> seb128, just the snap store version
<seb128> robert_ancell, k, the description of that mp made me unsure :)
<robert_ancell> seb128, yeah, I thought I'd keep it simple for upstream rather than go into all the gory details of where we're at
<seb128> but that's what I though, I didn't see that change uploaded/in the deb
<seb128> k
#ubuntu-desktop 2018-11-28
<mdeslaur> tkamppeter: are you working on ghostscript 9.26 for disco? I want to use your tarball for the stable releases.
<didrocks> good morning
<duflu> Hi didrocks
<didrocks> hey duflu
<willcooke> morning all
<Laney> vot up
<willcooke> morning Laney
<seb128> hey willcooke Laney, how are you?
<willcooke> hi seb128
<seb128> hey again duflu
<seb128> lut didrocks
<willcooke> We've had three applicants already
<seb128> nice
<seb128> good ones?
<duflu> Hi there willcooke, seb128, Laney
<willcooke> seb128, remains to be seen :)
<seb128> :)
<didrocks> salut seb128
<didrocks> hey willcooke, Laney
<Laney> hey willcooke seb128 duflu didrocks
<willcooke> oi oi
<Laney> seb128: alright, came second by Â½ point in the pub quiz last night though which was annoying!
<Laney> and the cough is annoying me
<Laney> oh wait
<Laney> also I was looking for something last night and I checked inside my suitcase
<Laney> ...
<seb128> Laney, they allocate half points? interesting :)
 * seb128 waits for what was in the suitcase :p
 * willcooke waits too
<Laney> (this is going to be worth it)
<Laney> https://photos.app.goo.gl/F1aG8pMnRsov7Kx36
<willcooke> omfg
<willcooke> How long has it been there?
<Laney> since rls sprint
<Laney> I grabbed that with my hand too
<Laney> :((((((((((((((((((
<willcooke> ewwwww
<seb128> impressive & urg
<duflu> Did you hear it crying for help?
<willcooke> lol
<Laney> might have heard *me* doing that
<Laney> https://launchpad.net/~ci-train-ppa-service/+archive/ubuntu/3538/+build/15714868
<Laney> â
<willcooke> Ooh, nice.  Tracker MIR +1 from security team
<willcooke> Laney, aces!  Thank you
<Laney> just https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libcue/+bug/1770871 left now
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1770871 in libcue (Ubuntu) "[MIR] libcue" [Medium,Confirmed]
<Laney> although that could probably be disabled if it takes too long
<seb128> yeah, those are optional
<seb128> though it looks like security team has cycles for reviews atm, they just picked a bunch of our items and assigned them
<seb128> so maybe they do libcue this week as well
<Laney> not urgent yet
<Laney> acheronuk: https://launchpadlibrarian.net/399277799/qtbase-opensource-src_5.11.2+dfsg-7ubuntu1_5.11.2+dfsg-7ubuntu3.diff.gz any comment before I publish? ignore the bits from ubuntu2
<Laney> or mitya57
<andyrock> morning all!
<duflu> Morning andyrock
<duflu> That said, I should think about dinner
<willcooke> hi andyrock, bye duflu
<duflu> Yes. Because otherwise I'm about to start on a new fix :P
<duflu> Night
<willcooke> :) see ya
<seb128> hey andyrock!
<oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
<willcooke> hi oSoMoN
<oSoMoN> hey willcooke
<seb128> lut oSoMoN, en forme ?
<oSoMoN> lut seb128, bien et toi?
<seb128> Ã§a va, un peu fatiguÃ©, ce rhume ne me laisse pas tranquille (bien que Ã§a commence quand mÃªme Ã  aller mieux)
<andyrock> didrocks: https://github.com/micheleg/dash-to-dock/pull/847
<gitbot> micheleg issue (Pull request) 847 in dash-to-dock "Add changelog entry for LP: #1769383" [Open]
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1769383 in gnome-shell-extension-ubuntu-dock (Ubuntu Cosmic) "Ubuntu dock/launcher is shown on the lock screen" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1769383
<andyrock> or Trevinho if he's in the middle of the night XD ^^^
<didrocks> andyrock: yeah, let's see with Trevinho please ;)
<andyrock> it's just a changelog entry
<andyrock> :D
<andyrock> would be nice to have write access to that branch
<andyrock> ð¥
<seb128> didrocks, how do the acl work for that project? can we get people added or is it only the owner since it's under a personnal account?
<didrocks> seb128: something to ask to Michele, he only gave to some people (not even sure who) access to the "ubuntu" branch
<seb128> didrocks, so he's the owner/only one who can add people?
<didrocks> I think so
<seb128> sorry I'm unsure how github work in that regard and where I can see who can do what on the branch
<seb128> k
<seb128> thx didrocks, I'm going to email him (and maybe Cc you if it's ok, because he doesn't know me and might got WTF) to ask if we can add more people added
<didrocks> I don't know either where this config can be seen
<didrocks> sure, feel free to CC me
<didrocks> and yeah, makes sense
<seb128> thx
<seb128> now I wonder if we should consider it as a packaging branch
<seb128> and e.g just add people who have upload right
<seb128> or if it's ok to ask for andrea/marco do be added
<didrocks> hum, I think ti's fine to add andrea/marco
<didrocks> then, the sponsor just takes care of the debdiff
<didrocks> and review
<willcooke> seb128, I emailed him yesterday, want me to tag this on too, so we dont overwhelm him?
<willcooke> (no reply yet, mind)
<seb128> willcooke, yes please
<willcooke> oki, I will give him another day or so and then follow up
<seb128> thx!
<andyrock> Marco already got access
<andyrock> he has access to dash-to-dock branches too
<andyrock> seb128: I'm testing new ubuntu-dock on disco vm
<andyrock> once tested I can give you the debdiff or the uploader can just use ubuntu-dock branch
<andyrock> I will handle cosmic and bionic sru too later
<andyrock> tbh I would move the ubuntu-dock branches under the ~ubuntu-desktop team
<seb128> I would be fine with that but Didier is busy enough atm and I'm not sure it's the right time to argue over best vcs use
<seb128> so for now let's just get people added to the github acl if we can
<seb128> andyrock, I'm happy to sponsor a debdiff, Marco can sort out the vcs later on
<mitya57> Laney: LGTM
<Laney> thx
<Laney> synced
<andyrock> seb128: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-shell-extension-ubuntu-dock/+bug/1769383/comments/46
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1769383 in gnome-shell-extension-ubuntu-dock (Ubuntu Cosmic) "Ubuntu dock/launcher is shown on the lock screen" [Undecided,In progress]
<seb128> andyrock, thx
<andyrock> seb128: works in disco on top of gnome-shell from repo and gnome-shell from master
<seb128> andyrock, uploaded
<andyrock> seb128: thx
<seb128> thank you for doing the work! :)
<willcooke> Is there a fwupd IRC channel?
<willcooke> I'll ask hughsie
<Wimpress> tseliot: Are you aware of this?
<Wimpress> https://www.linuxuprising.com/2018/11/fix-nvidia-graphics-drivers-ppa.html
<Wimpress> https://www.reddit.com/r/linux_gaming/comments/a0zii8/updating_from_the_ubuntu_nvidia_ppa_did_it_break/
<tseliot> Wimpress: no, but we have only 410 in the archive (in disco), and we are not going to move to 415
<Wimpress> Understood. The "feedback" is about the PPA, which now include 415.
<tseliot> ricotz: have you seen that? ^
<tseliot> Wimpress: ricotz and mamarley (in #ubuntu-x maintain that)
<ricotz> tseliot, yes, and this concerns the 410 disco package
<tseliot> ricotz: oh, 410 too?
<ricotz> yes
<ricotz> just run vulkaninfo
<tseliot> ok, I'll look into that then
<tseliot> Wimpress: ^
<Wimpress> Thanks for investigating ricotz
<Wimpress> I wish people would consider LP bugs and IRC before posting on Twitter and Reddit.
<Wimpress> I'll speak to Liam.
<willcooke> nice one, thanks chaps
<willcooke> Wimpress, does Liam do IRC?
<Wimpress> No idea. But making some effort to come to us directly would be far better than stumbling over random post on "the Internet"
<tseliot> ricotz: I have just downloaded and extracted libnvidia-gl-410_410.78-0ubuntu1_amd64.deb, and nvidia_icd.json looks correct: https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/QWxzQMwFfX/
<tseliot> this is from the package in the archive
<Laney>  Package 'uuid', required by 'fontconfig', not found
<Laney> naughty fontconfig SRU
<Laney> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/fontconfig/+bug/1803534/comments/7
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1803534 in fontconfig (Ubuntu) "Backport uuid based cache file naming scheme" [Undecided,New]
<Laney> just beaten, damn it :-)
<seb128> :p
<Laney> can we kill that version from proposed pls
<seb128> I guess the SRU team wouldn't mind me doing that?
 * seb128 does
<willcooke> kenvandine, FYI ^
<Laney> thx
<ricotz> tseliot, looking, I remember I ran into installation problems due to different debian.gz checksums with multiarch
<tseliot> ok
<seb128> Laney, done
<Laney> merci!
<seb128> de rien!
<seb128> on that note I'm starving, moving to work from a lunch place and get a burger :)
<ricotz> tseliot, yes /usr/share/doc/libnvidia-gl-410/changelog.Debian.gz is different on amd64 and i386
<ricotz> is the old gzip bug back?
<tseliot> let me check. It should come from the same installer though
<tseliot> I don't remember the gzip bug though
<ricotz> tseliot, this file get zipped on buildtime by debhelper or so, but i386 and amd64 needs to produce the same binary
<ricotz> ok, this installation problem cause my breakage of vulkan here
<tseliot> ricotz: the changelog on i386 seems to be an empty file
<kenvandine> willcooke: ugh...
<kenvandine> seb128: i've uploaded the depends fix
<kenvandine> oSoMoN: did you see the upstream comments on the firefox bug?
<oSoMoN> kenvandine, I did
<oSoMoN> busy with libreoffice build failures atm though
<kenvandine> oSoMoN: ok
<seb128> bah, wifi there is not the best
<seb128> kenvandine, thx
<willcooke> speaking of dodgy wifi
<willcooke> I need to take my laptop for a walk around the street to test oSoMoN's n-m fixes
<seb128> they used to have a normal wifi here
<seb128> but now they have one where you need to log through a facebook account to use it
<seb128> which I'm not going to do, so I use the one from the place next to them, but that has weak signal :p
<oSoMoN> man, I hope the burgers are worth it
<willcooke> lol
<seb128> I ended up changing my mind and taking the steak, it was good :)
<willcooke> fake facebook profiles ftw
<seb128> so facebook thinks they have even more users? ;)
<willcooke> :)
<willcooke> Invest in Facebook, register a load of new accounts, sell your shares, profit.
<willcooke> Buy more steaks
<willcooke> In related news, I had a cheese sandwich for lunch
 * willcooke phones his stock broker 
<seb128> :)
<Laney> me too
<Laney> but I added sriracha mayo
<Laney> #lunchnews
<clobrano> Hi all o/
<seb128> hey clobrano! how are you?
<seb128> Laney, fancy!
<clobrano> Hey seb128, doing fine, how about you?
<Laney> hey clobrano
<clobrano> Laney: :)
<seb128> I'm ok, being dealing with annoying cold still but otherwise good :)
<clobrano> seb128: I see, that period of the year again :)
<seb128> indeed :/
<clobrano> I'm investigating on using a script to "surufy" the icons of newly installed application. For deb installed Yaru (18.10), there should be no big issues (using Post-Invoke script), what I wonder is how to do the same when the script is provided within the snap
<seb128> kenvandine might be able to help you there?
<kenvandine> clobrano: let me ping you later this morning, going into a meeting now
<clobrano> kenvandine: of course, thanks!
<kenvandine> clobrano: if i don't ping you in an hour, please nag me :)
<clobrano> oky
<oSoMoN> seb128, andyrock : re bug #1765304, IÂ rebuilt gnome-shell for bionic with https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gnome-shell/merge_requests/140, and this fixes the issue with focus on password fields in firefox
<gitbot> GNOME issue (Merge request) 140 in gnome-shell "keyboard: Do not call KeyboardManager.holdKeyboard() with set-content-type" [1. Bug, 6. Input, Merged]
<ubot5> bug 1765304 in gnome-shell (Ubuntu) "Ubuntu 18.04's ibus package breaks password fields in Firefox (by lowering & raising window whenever they're focused)" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1765304
<oSoMoN> test PPA is here: https://launchpad.net/~osomon/+archive/ubuntu/gs-lp1765304/+packages
<mdeslaur> tkamppeter: forget about it, I'm doing 9.26 now, including disco
<willcooke> night all
<seb128> oSoMoN, oh, good ... Trevinho see backlog, would be nice to have the MR Olivier listed in the next gnome-shell bionic SRU
#ubuntu-desktop 2018-11-29
<Trevinho> seb128: ok, will check that out
<iWaldo> hey everybody.  I'm looking to create a temporary VM to do some testing and would like to use ubuntu with unity just to see how everything has changed over the years.  what is the best way to get a unity DE install of ubuntu without all of the bells and whistles required by most users (email client, office suite, web broswer, etc)
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<didrocks> good morning
<oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
<didrocks> salut oSoMoN
<oSoMoN> salut didrocks, Ã§a va?
<didrocks> oSoMoN: Ã§a va, et toi ?
<duflu> Whoops. Morning didrocks and oSoMoN
<duflu> And hi again seb128
<oSoMoN> Ã§a va, dernier jour de la semaine pour moi
<oSoMoN> hey duflu
<oSoMoN> demain je pars pour le week-end Ã  Strasbourg
<didrocks> hey duflu
<didrocks> oSoMoN: ah, profites bien :)
<didrocks> oSoMoN: et passe le bonjour (vu que j'imagine tu vas voir tu-sais-qui :p)
<oSoMoN> je nây manquerai pas :)
<didrocks> ;)
<seb128> back
<seb128> lut didrocks oSoMoN
<seb128> hey again duflu :)
<seb128> oSoMoN, Strasbourg, cool, profites-en bien !
<willcooke> morning seb128 didrocks oSoMoN, ca va?
<seb128> willcooke, salut! trÃ¨s bien, et toi ?
<willcooke> ca va bien
<oSoMoN> salut seb128, willcooke
<didrocks> salut seb128, hey willcooke
<Laney> HALLO
<seb128> Hoi Laney
<duflu> Yoho Laney
<duflu> and willcooke
<willcooke> arrrrrr duflu
<willcooke> that's a pirate voice
<duflu> ð´ââ ï¸
<Laney> probably should look into this gdm not coming up at boot thing on my desktop at some point eh :<
<willcooke> More races?
<Laney> dunno
<Laney> all I know atm without looking is that it doesn't do the x fallback thing
<Laney> restarting gdm again makes it work
<Laney> ð¤·
<seb128> gdm...
<Laney> #notrolling
<seb128> oSoMoN, bug #1765304 it could probably help if you mp the backport for the bionic packaging branch, so it's the review queue/vcs easier to track for the next SRU
<ubot5> bug 1765304 in gnome-shell (Ubuntu) "Ubuntu 18.04's ibus package breaks password fields in Firefox (by lowering & raising window whenever they're focused)" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1765304
<oSoMoN> seb128, sure, I'll prepare that
<seb128> thx
<duflu> Laney, I almost mentioned that in my last report, but then decided not to. The family of related bug reports is https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gdm3/+bugs?field.tag=nvidia
<duflu> Although I never had a problem myself when testing Nvidia
<duflu> And good night
<Laney> Cheers
<oSoMoN> seb128, Trevinho: https://code.launchpad.net/~osomon/ubuntu/+source/gnome-shell/+git/gnome-shell/+merge/359817
<seb128> oSoMoN, thx
<Laney> laney@bionic (:2e1722a|â1â1)> git rebase --abort                                                                                                                                                                                                        ~/dev/gnome/desktop-icons
<Laney> Segmentation fault (core dumped)
<Laney> always good
<talx> hello guys
<seb128> hey talx
<Trevinho> oSoMoN: looks ok, but please also add patch tags as per http://dep.debian.net/deps/dep3/
 * willcooke -> hair cut
<willcooke> night all
#ubuntu-desktop 2018-11-30
<didrocks> good morning
<duflu> Morning didrocks, seb128
<didrocks> hey duflu
<willcooke> top o' the mornin
<willcooke> sunny today
<didrocks> hey willcooke
<didrocks> *unsunny* here :p
<Laney> hey
<Laney> YES! SUNNY!
<seb128> hey willcooke, Laney
<willcooke> didrocks, do you have the storms as well?
<seb128> sunny friday!
<willcooke> hey seb128 Laney
<seb128> re didrocks, hey duflu
<duflu> Hi willcooke, Laney, seb128 again
<willcooke> ar'noon duflu
<Laney> moin seb128 willcooke duflu
<duflu> Laney, was I correct yesterday in guessing your desktop uses Nvidia?
<Laney> It does
<duflu> Laney, yeah I've been meaning to deduplicate those bugs. I think you will find at least one relating to your fallback not working (https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gdm3/+bugs?field.tag=nvidia)
<Laney> Seems likely
<Laney> I might have a look into it a bit later on
<didrocks> willcooke: well, big wind, but no storm
<willcooke> story of my life
<didrocks> lalala lala lalalala
<andyrock> morning all!
<didrocks> hey andyrock
<andyrock> seb128: https://github.com/micheleg/dash-to-dock/pull/848
<gitbot> micheleg issue (Pull request) 848 in dash-to-dock "SRU fix for LP: 1769383" [Open]
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1769383 in gnome-shell-extension-ubuntu-dock (Ubuntu Cosmic) "Ubuntu dock/launcher is shown on the lock screen" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1769383
<andyrock> I'll update the bug description
<andyrock>  to make it SRUable
<andyrock> seb128: also we need to ask Trevinho to add commits and tags once it's released
<andyrock> seb128: bug updated!
<seb128> andyrock, thx
<popey> I'm on 18.04. On 18.10 (or future plans?) is it possible to have different scaling factors on each display?#
<popey> (I just got a HIDPI display and when I change the scale it seems to affect all displays, oddly).
<willcooke> popey, you could try in the wayland session, I think that will let you apply different scaling factors
<popey> :( wayland on nvidia isn't fun
<willcooke> T_revinho is working on fractional scaling in X this cycle.  I /think/ that lets you apply different scaling to each screen
<popey> Neat!
<Trevinho> morning
<Trevinho> andyrock: hey
<andyrock> Trevinho: morning
<andyrock> not sure seb128 is around atm
<andyrock> Trevinho: how is Mexico?
<Trevinho> andyrock: Mexico is always amzing... But I'm in Cuba now :)
<willcooke> hey Trevinho
<Trevinho> hi willcooke
<andyrock> Trevinho: say hi to your sweet half â¤ï¸
 * andyrock meant your OTHER sweet half
<Laney> Marco "carbon emissions" Trevisan âï¸âï¸âï¸âï¸âï¸âï¸âï¸âï¸âï¸âï¸âï¸âï¸
<Laney> hi ð
<Trevinho> Laney: heeeeey, yeah... I made the global warm to be real. Otherwise someone doesn't believe it's true. So need to stress :-D
<Trevinho> andyrock: ahahaha, thanks
<andyrock> ð¤£
<jbicha> seb128: re LP: #1805426 there is a bug (webkit?) causing GOA to not work in (some?) VMs
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1805426 in gnome-initial-setup (Ubuntu) "Not able to log in into Google Account, aswell as Microsoft account" [Low,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1805426
<jbicha> hmm, I guess my comment isn't relevant here though
<jbicha> Laney: I guess we can upload nautilus with tracker dependency now?
<Laney> jbicha: if the bugs are Fix Committed, if not then you need to go back to the MIR team
<Laney> If it were me I'd wait and do it with 3.30 all at once though
<Laney> will need an MIR for the desktop icons of course
<jbicha> Laney: I'll let you handle it
<Laney> but that one could be seeded later on
<Laney> thx
<k_alam> seb128: Hi, can you review few unity patches ? they are small
<seb128> k_alam, hey, not today, I'm about to call it a week
<seb128> on that note
<seb128> good w.e desktopers!
<willcooke> see you seb128
<seb128> willcooke, enjoy the w.e!
<willcooke> you too
<seb128> andyrock, did you need me for something earlier when you said I was not around, I see no context ... anyway let me know, I let IRC open and read the backlog later
<seb128> but if it can wait for monday it's probably for next week :)
<seb128> k_alam, same for your reviews
<andyrock> seb128: it can wait! we wanted to discuss about the possibility to move ubuntu-dock branches under our git
<andyrock> but let's discuss it mon/tue
<kenvandine> willcooke: i have yelp integration working in snaps :)
<Laney> this cafe is blasting out christmas tunes
<Laney> NO
<k_alam> Alright.
<willcooke> yelp?
<kenvandine> willcooke: yeah, for help
<willcooke> kenvandine,
<willcooke> oops
<kenvandine> never worked before
<kenvandine> i have a patch for snapd that fixes it
<willcooke> ohhhhhhhhhhhhh
<willcooke> Oh wow
<willcooke> neat!
<Laney> nice
<kenvandine> it's been bugging me for ages
<kenvandine> now to get this landed :)
<willcooke> :)
<willcooke> night all, have a good weekend
#ubuntu-desktop 2019-11-25
<jibel> morning all
<didrocks> good morning
<oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
<didrocks> salut oSoMoN
<oSoMoN> salut didrocks
<seb128> goooood morning desktopers
<didrocks> salut seb128
<seb128> lut didrocks, en forme ? bon w.e ?
<didrocks> seb128: tout le week-end au lit car malade (trachÃ©ite), Ã§a commence Ã  aller un peu mieux aujourd'hui
<didrocks> et toi ?
<seb128> ah zut :-( repose toi /soigne toi bien
<didrocks> merci !
<seb128> nous on a des rhumes mais c'est pas la catastrophe, on a quand mÃªme Ã©tÃ© actifs / profitÃ© du soleil
<didrocks> cool :)
<oSoMoN> salut seb128
<seb128> lut oSoMoN, en forme ? t'as passÃ© un bon w.e?
<oSoMoN> trÃ¨s bien, un peu enrhumÃ© aussi mais Ã§a ne nous a pas empÃªchÃ© de profiter du beau temps
<seb128> :-)
<marcustomlinson> morning all
<seb128> hey marcustomlinson, Laney, how are you? had a good w.e?
<marcustomlinson> seb128: pretty good thanks :) you?
<Laney> ;-)
<Laney> moin
<seb128> :-)
<seb128> marcustomlinson, we all got a bit of a cold but didn't stop us enjoying the sunny w.e
<didrocks> hey Laney
<didrocks> morning marcustomlinson
<seb128> also I had friday off, played some tennis in the morning in the cold/sunny weather, that was very nice
<seb128> being outside and moving after a week travelling/eating too much and then a week recovering/being at the desk was great
<Wimpress> Morning desktoppers
<Wimpress> How is everyone today?
<Laney> hey seb128 didrocks marcustomlinson oSoMoN Wimpress
<seb128> hey Wimpress, how are you?
<Laney> yes very good weekend thanks: went to a sea shanty festival in cornwall :>
<Laney> lot of travelling though, took 7 hours each way
<marcustomlinson> sounds great seb128 :)
<marcustomlinson> hey Laney didrocks Wimpress
<seb128> Laney, train? ;)
<Laney> nope
<oSoMoN> good morning marcustomlinson, Laney, Wimpress
<marcustomlinson> hey oSoMoN
<Laney> we hired a car
<Wimpress> Laney: Where in Cornwall. Love it down there.
<Laney> the country is surprisingly long in that direction
<Laney> Wimpress: st ives
<Wimpress> Lovely.
<GunnarHj> Hi Laney, I suppose you will have to help with all the test regressions re the SRUs at bug #1844853. In addition to this being mostly over my head, and I don't have access to rerun tests when needed, I'm currently hospitalized without proper net access (temporarily home ATM).
<ubot5> bug 1844853 in glib2.0 (Ubuntu Eoan) "IBus no longer works in Qt applications after upgrade" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1844853
<Laney> GunnarHj: Sure, that's part of the normal procedure.
<Laney> Hope you're better soon :(
<GunnarHj> Laney: Thanks.
<popey> oSoMoN: good day! chromimum snap is missing joystick interface - which is required for stadia (and other cloud gaming)
<popey> any reason you wouldn't add that?
<oSoMoN> popey, morning! none other than "IÂ don't have a joystick so IÂ haven't missed that ability", I'll happily add it if you can confirm it works
<popey> i can
<popey> I have a jounalist writing an article about stadia, he can test too
<oSoMoN> popey, I'm uploading a chromium snap with the joystick plug, I'll let you know when it's published
<oSoMoN> popey, revision 958 is now in the candidate/joystick channel (amd64 only)
<popey> <3 thanks. testing
<popey> oSoMoN: that works
<popey> confirmed by journalist
<marcustomlinson> nice one
<popey> oSoMoN: they're asking when / if that will make it to stable. So he doesn't have to put janky instructions in his article.
<seb128> + autoconnect for some extra bonus point right? ;)
<popey> well, that would be nice. I don't think jdstrand would go for it
<seb128> :(
<popey> i may be wrong, worth asking for sure.
<popey> But it's a browser, not a game, largely.
<marcustomlinson> instructions will still be a little janky then
<popey> well, people can open gnome software and hit a button. Not toooooo janky.
<marcustomlinson> but only a little janky :)
<popey> ya
<seb128> right
<seb128> one day we will have runtime prompting for those things hopefull
<seb128> y
<oSoMoN> popey, for amd64 IÂ can promote it to stable now, do you reckon other architectures need an extra effort on my part or is it fine if they wait until the next chromium update?
<popey> i think it only really matters for amd64 right now
<oSoMoN> ack, that's what IÂ thought
<popey> thanks!
<oSoMoN> popey, it's now in stable for amd64
<popey> <3
<oSoMoN> and IÂ closed the candidate/joystick channel
<marcustomlinson> gotta love that snap release agility
<popey> ya
<popey> https://twitter.com/gamingonlinux/status/1198960436944785408
<marcustomlinson> awesome :)
<oSoMoN> kenvandine, marcustomlinson :Â I got pinged directly about https://forum.snapcraft.io/t/opera-stops-working-after-upgrade-due-to-gnome-connection-issue/14155, is this something you can look into?
<marcustomlinson> oSoMoN: I'll respond
<oSoMoN> thanks
<hellsworth> good morning folks
<didrocks> hey hellsworth
<hellsworth> o/
<popey> oSoMoN: sooo, wanna start a thread about joystick autoconnection on the forum? :)
<oSoMoN> popey, sure, lemme do that
<oSoMoN> good morning hellsworth
<hellsworth> good morning oSoMoN ! btw the beer was delicious :)
<oSoMoN> glad you liked it!
<oSoMoN> popey, https://forum.snapcraft.io/t/auto-connecting-the-joystick-interface-for-the-chromium-snap/14325
<popey> <3
<seb128> marcustomlinson, looks like libreoffice needs to be updated for the mdds new version which renamed it's binaries/.pc to -1.5, that landed to focal and now libreoffice autopkgtest fail, e.g
<seb128> https://objectstorage.prodstack4-5.canonical.com/v1/AUTH_77e2ada1e7a84929a74ba3b87153c0ac/autopkgtest-focal/focal/armhf/libr/libreoffice/20191125_151712_44e33@/log.gz
<seb128> 'checking for MDDS... no'
<seb128> marcustomlinson, Debian fixed it in https://packages.qa.debian.org/libr/libreoffice/news/20191120T144913Z.html
<robert_ancell> bigon, can you set https://salsa.debian.org/debian-ayatana-team/snapd-glib/merge_requests/1 to editable or rebase?
<gitbot> Ayatana Packagers issue (Merge request) 1 in snapd-glib "Please merge changes" [Opened]
<robert_ancell> oh, wait. I'm not logged in.
<marcustomlinson> seb128: thanks for the info, Iâll hit this first think in the morning
<marcustomlinson> *thing
<seb128> marcustomlinson, thx
<seb128> tjaalton, you noticed that glslang fails to build in Debian/Ubuntu?
<tjaalton> yes
<tjaalton> built fine on schroot, dunno what's wrong
<oSoMoN> good night all
<sergiusens> hey robert_ancell, mind if we discuss the common-id topic here?
<sergiusens> maybe just summarize in email afterwards
<robert_ancell> sergiusens, sorry, I just have to head out. But another time, yes.
<sergiusens> no worries, I learned just now from my partner that I had to be a dad for the next 2 hours anyways :-)
<sergiusens> as in parenting duty ;-)
<tjaalton> seb128: ah.. the patches aren't applied, that's why :P
<seb128> tjaalton, that would explain :)
#ubuntu-desktop 2019-11-26
<jibel> morning everyone
<didrocks> good morning
<oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
<oSoMoN> salut didrocks
<didrocks> salut oSoMoN
<jibel> fidencio, Hey, could you send me your preseed again? The paste expired
<seb128> gooood morning desktopers!
<didrocks> salut seb128
<seb128> lut didrocks, comment va aujourd'hui ?
<marcustomlinson> morning desktoppers
<seb128> hey marcustomlinson, how are you?
<marcustomlinson> seb128: I'm good thanks, you?
<seb128> I'm good thanks!
<seb128> I got proposed migration items a bit sorted out, we need you/libreoffice at this point to clear off items that are otherwise ready
<didrocks> seb128: la gorge qui gratte, mais Ã§a va
<seb128> k, cool que Ã§a aille un peu mieux
<seb128> brb, relocating
<oSoMoN> good morning marcustomlinson
<Laney> hey hey
<didrocks> hey Laney, marcustomlinson
<Laney> hey didrocks
<seb128> hey Laney
<Laney> moin seb128
<oSoMoN> hey Laney, salut seb128
<seb128> lut oSoMoN
<seb128> Laney, oSoMoN, how are you today?
<oSoMoN> I'm doing quite alright, despite a rough night (baby waking up every 30mins)
<Laney> ðµ
 * Laney is good
<seb128> oSoMoN, :-(
<didrocks> waow :(
<seb128> Laney, I did try to get on top of proposed-migrations issues and created card/tried to get things moved, I hope I didn't step on your toes too much while doing that
<Laney> thx
<Laney> no I didn't work on that too much
<seb128> cool
<Laney> google are killing cloud print :-o
<tkamppeter> Laney, did you read this somewhere?
<Laney> yes
<tkamppeter> Laney, where?
<Laney> but it's on that -> machine
<Laney> so I suggest searching for it :P
<tkamppeter> Laney, so I do not need to pu effort on supporting it any more, nore promote it.
<Laney> https://www.techradar.com/news/google-is-shutting-down-its-cloud-printing-service
<tkamppeter> Laney, seems that no one sends a print job to a printer which is far away from him.
<tkamppeter> Printing from a phone seems to be done nowadays by being close to a modern printer with driverless IPP support.
<jibel> sending a print job to a printer far away used to be called a fax, isn't it? ;)
<tkamppeter> Laney, "it was particularly useful for Chrome OS users whose existing printers may not have been compatible with their Chromebooks or Chromeboxes.". This use case is now covered by driverless IPP printing.
<Laney> for their existing printers?
<tkamppeter> Laney, and the Google Chrome guys were on the last 2 or 3 OpenPrinting/PWG Summits and picked up all of our nice driverless stuff.
<tkamppeter> Laney, at least for modern printers, and modern can mean something like up to 5 years old. I do not exactly know for how long there is AirPrint (the first driverless IPP standard) now.
<Laney> Right
<Laney> I'm saying "you don't need this thing, because you can get yourself some new hardware which works better" isn't that great
<tkamppeter> Only if you try with these stone-old, never-breaing HP printers with toner from eBay you are probably out of luck (if there is no generic PCL 5e support).
<tkamppeter> Laney, and perhaps (I do not have confirmation) Chrome OS already supports or will support Snap and so they have access to future printer drivers (Printer Applications).
<fidencio> jibel: https://paste.fedoraproject.org/paste/3b-XEPKLeVT~utEHATuQOg
<jibel> fidencio, thanks. looking now
<tkamppeter> seb128, Wimpress, kenvandine, I am not able to make it to the meeting today, but my weekly summary is up.
<fidencio> jibel: let me know if you are able to, at least, reproduce the very same issue :-)
<jibel> fidencio, yes, I will.
<jibel> fidencio, where does it stop for you?
<fidencio> jibel: https://fidencio.fedorapeople.org/ubuntu_1910_issue.png
<fidencio> jibel: btw, happens when using the following media: http://releases.ubuntu.com/19.10/ubuntu-19.10-desktop-amd64.iso
<jibel> fidencio, I'm testing on focal, but there shouldn't be much difference
<fidencio> jibel: interesting thing (at least for me) is that I haven't seen this issue before, and the issues doesn't happen with other medias or when doing a net-based installation
<seb128> marcustomlinson, do you think you will have a chance to look at the libreoffice libiximion thing today? or maybe I can help and give it a try if you prefer?.
<marcustomlinson> seb128: I am busy with it. You think you could help nudge libixion and liborcus through from proposed to main?
<marcustomlinson> seb128: I assume those will need to be in main before I can have libreoffice depend on the,
<marcustomlinson> them
<seb128> they are available/ready
<seb128> just stuck in proposed waiting on libreoffice
<seb128> they can't move before/without it
<marcustomlinson> oh ok, I'll have libreoffice pushed in a few
<marcustomlinson> I've just had amd64 finish building in my ppa and manual testing looks good
<seb128> thx
<Wimpress> tkamppeter: Thanks.
<Wimpress> Afternoon desktoppers. I'll debut driving the meeting this afternoon :-)
<kenvandine> Wimpress: woot
<marcustomlinson> :)
<Wimpress> Let's not get carried away just yet ;-)
<didrocks> heh
<seb128> kenvandine, Trevinho, tkamppeter, it was posted a bit late yesterday, but please update your bugs status on https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/release-bugs-for-week-commencing-monday-25th-november-2019/13474
<Trevinho> o/
<Wimpress> #startmeeting Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2019-11-26
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Nov 26 14:30:03 2019 UTC.  The chair is Wimpress. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Spooky Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/uEut6bfN/ubuntu-desktop-1910-cycle | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2019-11-26 | Current topic:
<Wimpress> Roll call:  didrocks, duflu (out), hellsworth, jamesh, jibel, kenvandine, laney, marcustomlinson, oSoMoN, seb128 , tkamppeter (out), trevinho, robert_ancell
<seb128> _o/
<kenvandine> \o
<oSoMoN> hey there
<marcustomlinson> o/
<didrocks> hey
<Wimpress> Hello team o/
<jibel> \o
<Wimpress> Right, let's push on
<Wimpress> #topic rls-bb-bugs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Spooky Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/uEut6bfN/ubuntu-desktop-1910-cycle | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2019-11-26 | Current topic: rls-bb-bugs
<Wimpress> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-bb-incoming-bug-tasks.html
<Wimpress> Does look like any thing in there for us, right?
<marcustomlinson> nope
<Wimpress> *Does not
<oSoMoN> nope
<seb128> looks like not
<Wimpress> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-bb-tracking-bug-tasks.html
<hellsworth> here
<Wimpress> Hi hellsworth :-)
<Wimpress> Not seeing anything obvious unassisgned in the above.
<hellsworth> 1852315 ?
<seb128> Wimpress, I usually sort by assigneed for that section and look at anything which is "unassigned" and !fix-commited|!incomplete
<Wimpress> Although, embarrsingly, MATE Desktop stuff.
<hellsworth> it's unasigned and not fix committed
<seb128> Wimpress, don't look to unknown section but to desktop one
 * seb128 encourage Wimpress, you can do it :)
<Wimpress> tseliot_: What is the status of https://pad.lv/1852315
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1852315 in nvidia-graphics-drivers-435 (Ubuntu Eoan) "CVEâ2019â5696 5697 5698" [Undecided,New]
<Wimpress> seb128: I'm looking at the desktop stuff now :-)
<seb128> Wimpress, that one does look like it make sense, should just be assigned to tseliot_
<seb128> so we can probably move to -dd bugs
<Wimpress> OK. Everything else for Binonic looks good.
<seb128> +1 :)
<hellsworth> woot
<Laney> yeh, looking at -tracking is really only to find ones that people directly nominated without going through the process
<Wimpress> Skip dd completely seb128 or just look at bug tracking tasks?
<Laney> all the rest will have been assigned already
<hellsworth> why add it to dd and not ee or ff?
<seb128> Wimpress, I looked at dd reports, nothing on incoming nor tracking so you can skip it
<Wimpress> OK
<Wimpress> #topic rls-ee-bugs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Spooky Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/uEut6bfN/ubuntu-desktop-1910-cycle | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2019-11-26 | Current topic: rls-ee-bugs
<Wimpress> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-ee-incoming-bug-tasks.html
<seb128> and yeah, usually bugs are also on new serie (but sometime not and users nominate only for the one they care about/use)
<Wimpress> Looks to be in hand ^
<seb128> +1
<Wimpress> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-ee-tracking-bug-tasks.html
<Laney> wait
 * Wimpress waits...
<Laney> we still need to either nominate it and assign to Till, or tag that as notfixing to not track it
<Laney> otherwise we'll see it in incoming next week
<seb128> it's assigned
<Laney> not nominated
<seb128> I don't think it looks a rls issue at this point
<seb128> right
<Laney> then notfixing
<seb128> I was typing :p
<seb128> yeah, -1 from me
<Laney> I'm just saying you need to do one or the other to get it off the list
<seb128> right, I agree
<Laney> no opinion on which
<seb128> I hit enter too soon
<seb128> read my 2 lines as one :p
<seb128> sorry if that was confusing
<seb128> so my vote is -notficing
<seb128> fixing
<seb128> others?
<seb128> (only 129 reports total on 19.10 from the error tracker, which is low)
<marcustomlinson> Â±0
<Laney> sounds ok to me, not sure Till acknowledged the assignment though so it might get missed
<hellsworth> idk if this package is broken, we should fix it for ff since it would be a lts - or remove the package
<hellsworth> so i would vote for fixing it
<seb128> kenvandine, can you make sure tkamppeter saw it being filed/assigned to him?
<kenvandine> yeah
<seb128> thx
<Wimpress> OK to move on to ff?
<didrocks> yeah ;)
<seb128> Wimpress, I think you have team input, so your call to either nominate for $series or to change to tag to rls-ee-notfixing
<Wimpress> #topic rls-ff-bugs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Spooky Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/uEut6bfN/ubuntu-desktop-1910-cycle | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2019-11-26 | Current topic: rls-ff-bugs
<Wimpress> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-ff-incoming-bug-tasks.html
<seb128> Wimpress, ^ you need to do one of those actions on the previous bug
<seb128> -notfixing doesn't mean we are not going to fix it, just that we don't accept it to be tracked as a release issue and will use the standard process
<Wimpress> seb128: OK, what is the mechanism for doing that?
<seb128> if you accept it you click "target to series" under the bugs table
<seb128> and select the series you want to track it for
<seb128> if you think it doesn't need special rls tracking, as said change the tag to rls-ee-notfixing
<seb128> rls-ee-incoming -> rls-ee-notfixing
<Wimpress> Which bug nuber are you referring to?
<hellsworth> the till one
<hellsworth> 1851918
<Wimpress> OK, that should be updated accordingly.
<kenvandine> hellsworth: i've pinged tkamppeter about that one
<seb128> Wimpress, thx, we can move to ff then :)
<Wimpress> OK.
<Wimpress> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-shell/+bug/1853112
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1853112 in gnome-shell (Ubuntu) "Applications are closed when killing the Shell (like on a hang)" [Undecided,New]
<seb128> I think it's worth nominating
<seb128> and from this week summary, Laney started looking at it
<Laney> sounds good, that can be assigned to me
<Wimpress> OK
<Laney> but I would be shocked if that bug wasn't a duplicate
<didrocks> \o/
<didrocks> Laney: I didn't find any other
<Laney> ok
<Wimpress> Laney wins a bug.
<seb128> :-)
<Wimpress> NOthing else there that isn't in hand already.
<Wimpress> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-ff-tracking-bug-tasks.html
<seb128> the MIR one there needs to be nominated or tagged -notfixing
<seb128> either would work, it's the MIR team queue
<Wimpress> So, is libmail-authenticationresults-perl not in main right now?
<hellsworth> correct
<Wimpress> But on the 19.10 image?
<seb128> no
<seb128> it blocks a libmail-dkim-perl update in focal-proposed
<Laney> that bug is assigned already
<Laney> nomin8 it
<Laney> imho
<seb128> that works yes
<Wimpress> I agree. What is the mechanism to nominate something?
<hellsworth> i'm happy to keep on with this mir
<Laney> target to series, focal, assign to hellsworth
<Wimpress> It is nominated for ff.
<Laney> delete the incoming tag
<didrocks> Wimpress: it can't be on official image if not in main (technically speaking, it will be an iso build failure with "unknown package")
<Wimpress> OK, should be correctly nominated for ff now.
 * marcustomlinson reads: It is nominated ffs.
<Laney> cool
<Wimpress> Move on to the next topic?
<Laney> ff-tracking looks good, so yeah
<seb128> +1
<Wimpress> #topic update_excuses_by_team.html#desktop-packages
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Spooky Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/uEut6bfN/ubuntu-desktop-1910-cycle | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2019-11-26 | Current topic: update_excuses_by_team.html#desktop-packages
<Wimpress> https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/update_excuses_by_team.html#desktop-packages
<Laney> yeah
<Laney> dunno what happened last week
<Laney> did these get assigned?
<marcustomlinson> there's a few of those that should be cleared out with the libreoffice upload I just did
<seb128> Laney, I think everything in the list is being handled
<seb128> half of it should unblock with libreoffice
<Laney> ok
<didrocks> (xorg-server waiting list is scary, probably autopkgtests running ;))
<seb128> the other one are a MIR waiting review, librsvg which is being worked on and a few issue from Debian being discussed there
<Wimpress> oSoMoN: Are you still fighting with librsvg?
<oSoMoN> it's bug #1853657, I'll update to 2.46
<ubot5> bug 1853657 in librsvg (Ubuntu) "librsvg 2.44.15 FTBFS in focal" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1853657
<seb128> Laney, in fact I lied about one, libxml is blocked by postgresql-12 ... do you know if anyone is looking at that?
<Laney> nope
<seb128> it's not for out team though and I would expect it's being handled, unsure who to ping though
<Laney> maybe need to check with server team
 * seb128 wants p_iti :)
<Laney> probably in ubuntu-devel
<seb128> +t
<seb128> right
<Laney> what is glm?
<Laney> why do we own all this weird stuff ._.
<Wimpress> GL maths library.
<didrocks> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/glm/+bug/1176083
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1176083 in glm (Ubuntu) "[MIR] glm" [Undecided,Fix released]
<didrocks> Robert! :)
<didrocks> (Mir requirement)
<seb128> Mirrrr
<seb128> we should reassign that to Saviq
<didrocks> yeah, I think that should be their team
<Laney> are they a main owning team these days?
<Laney> would be good if so
<seb128> we should talk about that
<Laney> looks like it
 * seb128 takes a note to discuss it in the manager meeting later
<Laney> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/m-r-package-team-mapping.html#mir-team
<Wimpress> Seems reasonable.
<Laney> so we can probably move that one after asking
<Laney> \o/
<didrocks> yep ;)
<Laney> so I guess that's it
<seb128> :-)
<hellsworth> why does that mir-team not have libmail-authenticationresults-perl?
<Wimpress> ANything else in there we need to assign or find another owner for?
<seb128> Saviq, can you subscribe the mir team to glm?
<Wimpress> Nicve try hellsworth ;-)
<Laney> ha
<hellsworth> im serious
<didrocks> I suggest all -perl -> other teams ;)
<hellsworth> isn't the mir team supposed to review the mirs?
<Wimpress> +1 :-)
<Laney> it's Mir not MIR
<hellsworth> must be a newbie question
<didrocks> ah yeah puzzling
<Laney> as in ...
<Wimpress> #namingthingsishard
<hellsworth> mir as in the os?
<didrocks> hellsworth: Mir is a display server, like xorg, not MIR (Main Inclusion Request)
<Laney> https://mir-server.io/
<hellsworth> right
<Laney> that thing
<oSoMoN> lucky there isn't a mIR team
<hellsworth> ok that mir is the only mir i was aware of before joining the team :)
<hellsworth> ok
<hellsworth> two mirs
<Wimpress> oSoMoN: Give it time.
<Laney> still only two
<didrocks> or a MiR or mIr orâ¦ :)
<Laney> not as many as we've had autopilots
<Wimpress> Time for AOB?
<didrocks> Laney: heh ;)
<didrocks> yeah, looks like time for AOB
<Wimpress> #topic AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Spooky Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/uEut6bfN/ubuntu-desktop-1910-cycle | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2019-11-26 | Current topic: AOB
<Wimpress> Anyone have anything else they want to discuss?
<seb128> not from me
<didrocks> anope
<Trevinho> neither
<oSoMoN> nothing here
<Saviq> seb128: what am I doing again?
<Wimpress> You just agree to own the glm package in main Saviq :-)
<seb128> Saviq, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/glm/+subscribe
<seb128> Saviq, and subscribe the mir team, so the package mapping is showing the correct owner
<seb128> since it seems the only reason it is in main is mir
<Saviq> ETOOMANYTEAMS
<seb128> indeed
<seb128> the subscribe dialog could use filtering or keyboard completion
<Saviq> seb128: but subscribed
<seb128> Saviq, thx!
<Saviq> ofc
<Wimpress> Saviq: Thanks.
<Laney> now, it's stuck in -proposed, go fix it :p
<seb128> lol
<didrocks> "btwâ¦" ;)
<Saviq> sneaky bâ¦
<seb128> Saviq, it's being handled in Debian don't worry
<Wimpress> Well played team.
<Laney> haha
<Saviq> Wimpress: that's how you run them, eh?
<Wimpress> :-)
<Wimpress> I have an AOB topic, if noone else has anything.
<Laney> dunno about don't worry, still good to keep an eye, no guarantees there
<Laney> go
<seb128> Saviq, https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=940906 for reference, the autopkgtest got broken by the removal of the cmake file which looks like upstream is bringing back, so probably just wait for upstream/debian and it will automagically resolve
<ubot5> Debian bug 940906 in src:glm "glm: autopkgtest regression: CMake Error at CMakeLists.txt:6 (find_package):" [Important,Open]
<seb128> but yeah, still keep an eye in case it needs some nagging
<seb128> Wimpress, go!
<Wimpress> Wanted to discuss the idea have this meeting at alternating times every other week.
<seb128> what times?
<Wimpress> Basically, so we can do this with the team members from down under.
<Wimpress> I have given the time much thought yet.
<seb128> we used to do that but 1am meeting wasn't really working
<seb128> it cost to the team more than it's worth imho
<Wimpress> Just wanted to see if it has been tried before or what you all think about the idea.
<didrocks> that would mean early morning, without US but with NZ/AU?
<didrocks> or just US/NZ/AU?
<Laney> don't think we have any working day overlap with robert_ancell
<Laney> maybe the US does
<hellsworth> yep we do
<seb128> or everyone in turn with every n weeks some people up at 1am for an IRC meeting (we had that at some point in the past)
<hellsworth> but between US/EU/AU pick 2
<Wimpress> I have meetings with RObert at 8pm UK time regarding snap store.
<seb128> which is like 6am for James?
<seb128> there is still like 3 hours between Robert and James
<Wimpress> Yeah, I know this isn't easy.
<Wimpress> I don't think asking anyone to have a meeting at 1am is reasonable.
<kenvandine> it's really tough
<hellsworth> i think kenvandine and i are the only us ones. i'm happy to meet in the evening if it helps
<Wimpress> So, the idea is OK. Just needs some actual thought regarding logistics?
<seb128> it's still going to be inconvenient for people, either earlier or conflciting with familly life, dinner, activities...
<seb128> I don't think it's worth the cost
<kenvandine> i agree
<seb128> but just my opinion
<Wimpress> OK.
<seb128> if we don't want to exclude half the team maybe think about fully go async?
<didrocks> or we make the attendance optional, and have rolling time, so, it can be once US/AU, once US/EU, (and maybe EU/AU?)
<seb128> e.g drop the meeting and just use discourse...
<marcustomlinson> I do think it's a nice idea to have US/AU community around for a meeting time
<seb128> or what didrocks says could also worth
<seb128> maybe change the meeting purpose
<Laney> feels like a chat for a retrospective in a sprint at this point
<seb128> we have bugs & activity on discourse
<Laney> to me anyway
<seb128> make it a sync point/office hour slot
<Wimpress> Laney: Good idea!
<seb128> +1
<Laney> personally I don't agree that the rls stuff would be good on discourse, that works nicely in real time I think
<Laney> but time zones do sucks
<Laney> -s
<Wimpress> Right, I'll think on that some more and we can chat about it together.
<Laney> ta
<Wimpress> I'm done. Anything else?
<kenvandine> nothing from me
<Wimpress> 3...
<hellsworth> travel
<hellsworth> folks should do that real quick
<hellsworth> that is all
<kenvandine> indeed
<Wimpress> Good point hellsworth
<seb128> not from me
 * didrocks is dealing with atpi, sounds train is complex for them :)
<seb128> oh, as we do reminders
<seb128> @online training :)
<hellsworth> is there an official due date for the online training?
<marcustomlinson> deadline is next Wednesday I beleive
<hellsworth> ah ok
<seb128> they said end of the month
<marcustomlinson> well it was said 1 month from access which was 4 Nov
<seb128> but I emailed saying it was not possible for some people who were in holidays and they replied "do you best then"
<seb128> your*
<Wimpress> End of this week is the target I believe.
<seb128> so I think it's not an well defined line, they just wanted to push people to get it done
<hellsworth> sure ok thanks
<Wimpress> And, I also heard there is some wiggle room.
* Laney changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Thanksgiving Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/uEut6bfN/ubuntu-desktop-1910-cycle | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2019-11-26 | Current topic: AOB
<Wimpress> lulz
<kenvandine> :)
<Wimpress> All finished?
<Laney> wonder if that'll break meetingology
<didrocks> yep ;)
<seb128> yep
<Laney> or if meetingology will break it
<seb128> should not, I think the bot is mart
<seb128> smart
<Wimpress> Thanks everyone.
<hellsworth> thanks!
<Wimpress> 2...
<oSoMoN> a smart bot? there is no such thing
<seb128> Wimpress, thx, well done handling your first meeting :)
<Wimpress> 1...
<Wimpress> Thanks seb128
<Wimpress> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Spooky Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/uEut6bfN/ubuntu-desktop-1910-cycle
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Nov 26 15:25:41 2019 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-desktop/2019/ubuntu-desktop.2019-11-26-14.30.moin.txt
<Laney> HA
<didrocks> thx!
<marcustomlinson> Thanks Wimpress
<Laney> KNEW IT
<seb128> meetingology, you s.... bot :p
<Wimpress> #botfail
* Laney changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Thanksgiving Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/uEut6bfN/ubuntu-desktop-1910-cycle
<oSoMoN> told you
<seb128> pfiou
<seb128> not today that the bot get us out of having a job then!
<oSoMoN> not that one anyway :)
<hellsworth> lol
<kenvandine> Wimpress: joining?
<jibel> fidencio, I can do an automated installation with your preseed and find nothing wrong with it.
<jibel> fidencio, then only thing I can imagine at the moment is that you set disk and bootdev to vda and if your VM is configured with a SATA interface instead of Virtio then the disk won't exist
<jibel> but I suspect the error would be different than stopping on the guided partitioning step
<jibel> it would likely be an error from partman saying it cannot find the root device
<fidencio> jibel: you tried with the mentioned ISO? if you tried with focus, would you mind pointing me to the ISO you used?
<fidencio> jibel: we do set the disk and bootdev to vda, but it's recognised and I can finish the installation without any issue, manually, still using vda
<jibel> fidencio, I tried focal and I'm verifying on eaon now
<jibel> fidencio, http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/pending/focal-desktop-amd64.iso
<fidencio> jibel: let me try with focal here as well
<seb128> https://trello.com/b/mxaCZTVc/ubuntu-desktop-common
<seb128> new board
<seb128> the other board is "Ubuntu Desktop Snap" so I used "Common" there
<Laney> beautiful
<fidencio> jibel: same error here
<fidencio> jibel: I wonder whether it may be related to the init_automatically_partition string passed to partman-auto
<jibel> fidencio, another difference is that I put the seed in the preseed directory of the iso not the initrd
<fidencio> jibel: can ubuntu generate a preseed file by the end of a normal installation?
<fidencio> jibel: what's really fishy for me is that it only broke when using initrd injection with this specific ISO (and now with focal as well)
<seb128> grrr, moving column between boards lost the people :/
<Laney> do they come back once they re join the board?
<fidencio> jibel: what I can see here is: ubiquity: Partman: state = [['', None, None]]
<jibel> fidencio, no it cannot, you could do a debconf-get-selections but there would be lot of noise
<seb128> Laney, no :(
<Laney> :<
<fidencio> jibel: Partman: auto_state [0, 'Guided - use entire disk']
<fidencio> so, seems that partman is not getting the state passed
<jibel> yeah
<fidencio> jibel: what are the possible values to be passed?
<seb128> I'm adding people back to the board as I see fit but please review and add yourself to card if I missed some
<seb128> sorry for the noise :/
<jibel> fidencio, partman auto supports the following values
<jibel> Guided - use the largest continuous free space
<jibel>  Guided - use entire disk
<jibel>  Guided - resize ${PARTITION} and use freed space
<jibel>  Guided - reuse partition, ${PARTITION}
<jibel>  Guided - use entire partition, ${PARTITION}
<fidencio> jibel: how can I be sure the preseed file was found?
<fidencio> when taking a look at casper.log, I can see something like "Begin: Loading preseed file... ... grep: /root/preseed.cfg: No such file or directory"
<fidencio> nah, doesn't seem to be the issue as the same is shown when trying to install 18.10 and it just works
<ricotz> oSoMoN, hi, remember ff71 on xenial needs to be built against patch llvm-6 or llvm-8+
<oSoMoN> ricotz, IÂ know, and it's high on my to-do list, but IÂ wanted to get the builds going in the PPA anyway
<ricotz> oSoMoN, ok
<ricotz> with llvm-9 in bionic now it seems a good backport candidate as well
<oSoMoN> indeed
<oSoMoN> ricotz, with our conditional code, once llvm-9 is out of proposed it should be picked up automatically by firefox builds, right?
<oSoMoN> i.e. nothing to change in the packaging
<ricotz> oSoMoN, yes
<fidencio> jibel: hmm. Interesting thing .... on 19.10, I can see on dmesg: "Trying to unpack rootfs image as initramfs..." and "Initramfs unpacking failed: Decoding failed"
<jibel> fidencio, how to you inject the preseed and rebuild the initrd?
<bittin_> Hello! Any Ubuntu Desktop Meeting today? i did my duties and reported a Totem bug atleast
<bittin_> https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/totem/issues/377
<gitbot> GNOME issue 377 in totem "Totem SegFaults on Ubuntu 20.04 Daily Image" [Opened]
<bittin_> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/totem/+bug/1854085
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1854085 in totem (Ubuntu) "Totem sefaults on launch" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<oSoMoN> hi bittin_ ! the weekly desktop meeting was 3 hours ago
<oSoMoN> thanks for that bug report
<bittin_> oSoMoN: alright, any meetings log file ?
<oSoMoN> bittin_, https://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2019/11/26/%23ubuntu-desktop.html
<bittin_> thx
 * bittin_ reads up
<bittin_> btw anyone knows something about Force Feedback Wheels on Ubuntu 18 or 19? a friend is wondering
<bittin_> done reading thanks
<bittin_> Anyone know how to create a stack trace with Debug Symbols?
<oSoMoN> bittin_, install debug symbols with instructions at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Debug%20Symbol%20Packages, then run whichever app that crashes in gdb, and when it breaks at the gdb prompt type "t a a bt" followed by return
<bittin_> oSoMoN: thanks the Totem guys wanted a strace but never did this before
<bittin_> oSoMoN: (gdb) "t a a bt"
<bittin_> Undefined command: "".  Try "help".
<bittin_> https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/totem/issues/377#note_656651
<gitbot> GNOME issue 377 in totem "Totem SegFaults on Ubuntu 20.04 Daily Image" [1. Crash, 2. Needs Information, Opened]
<bittin_> @ oSoMoN
<bittin_> oSoMoN: so if you know how gdb works, could you help with that? that would be nice
<oSoMoN> bittin_, gbd totem, then when you get the first prompt "run" and return
<oSoMoN> then make the app crash, and "t a a bt"
<bittin_> oSoMoN: thanks
<bittin_> oSoMoN: https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/totem/issues/377
<gitbot> GNOME issue 377 in totem "Totem SegFaults on Ubuntu 20.04 Daily Image" [1. Crash, 3. Not Gnome, Closed]
<oSoMoN> bittin_, note that if you have a crash file for totem under /var/crash, apport should have uploaded it automatically to errors.ubuntu.com
<robert_ancell> sergiusens, hi
<oSoMoN> bittin_, that's https://errors.ubuntu.com/problem/55095074fb3c3335c19f63f3c91d3a8231be2034
<oSoMoN> (you might not be able to see this, but that means the crash is known and being tracked)
<seb128> robert_ancell, hey
<robert_ancell> seb128, hi
<seb128> oSoMoN, bittin_, looks like a valid one to send upstream to gitlab
<oSoMoN> hey robert_ancell
<robert_ancell> oSoMoN, hi! Actually I had a questions for you... Can you set the common-id for the 0ad snap?
<oSoMoN> robert_ancell, sure, how do I do that?
<robert_ancell> oSoMoN, https://github.com/microsoft/vscode/pull/76432
<gitbot> microsoft issue (Pull request) 76432 in vscode "snapcaft.yaml: Set the AppStream ID in the Snap metadata" [Closed]
<robert_ancell> Something like that. If that app doesn't have an ID then you use the .desktop file name
<robert_ancell> oSoMoN, according to the .deb version in the YAML the ID should be com.play0ad.zeroad
<fidencio> jibel: I just use virt-install to do so. Let me check the code.
<oSoMoN> robert_ancell, so that's the value of the <id> field in the appdata.xml, right?
<robert_ancell> oSoMoN, Yes.
<oSoMoN> ack
<robert_ancell> Bonus points for pulling it out automatically :)
<robert_ancell> I'm trying to work out with sergiusens if we can get snapcraft to make this easier.
<fidencio> jibel: https://github.com/virt-manager/virt-manager/blob/master/virtinst/install/installerinject.py#L15
<marcustomlinson> Hey robert_ancell
<robert_ancell> o/
<oSoMoN> robert_ancell, appdata.xml is in the source tarball, so IÂ could extract the id from there, but IÂ don't suppose there's a "snapcraftctl set-common-id <ID>" command that can be used in scriptlets, is there?
<robert_ancell> oSoMoN, I don't have enough snapcraft experience to say.
<oSoMoN> sergiusens, can you confirm ^ ?
<robert_ancell> oSoMoN, the common-id is per-app, so I guess it would have to be "snapcraftctl set-common-id <APP> <ID>" ?
<marcustomlinson> robert_ancell: you may want to join #snapcraft
<oSoMoN> right
<oSoMoN> robert_ancell, https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~osomon/+junk/0ad-snap/revision/34 , and snaps rebuilding on launchpad
<robert_ancell> oSoMoN, thanks!
<oSoMoN> ok, I'm off for today, have a good rest of the day everyone
<marcustomlinson> me too. bye!
<mwhudson> hm hm rustc builds ok on xenial/armhf when built with gcc 7...
<fidencio> jibel: Aha! https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1835660
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1835660 in linux (Ubuntu) "initramfs unpacking failed" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<fidencio> jibel: not exactly the same issue, but similar / same error message
<fidencio> and https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1840945
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1840945 in linux (Ubuntu) "Mixed compression initrds partially work" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<fidencio> jibel: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1840945 is the root cause. it *is* a regression as gzip stopped working. Preferring lz4 is totally understandable, dropping gzip support, tho, is a big regression as it does affect virt-manager / gnome-boxes / and pretty much a bunch of users relying on old scripts using gzip
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1840945 in linux (Ubuntu) "Mixed compression initrds partially work" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<fidencio> jibel: I've patched virt-manager to do the test, and used `lz4 -9 -l` and it just worked
<fidencio> jibel: but patching virt-manager for dealing with this specific ISO is not the way to go
<fidencio> robert_ancell: heya! are you running 19.10?
<robert_ancell> fidencio, yes
<fidencio> robert_ancell: mind pasting the output of `zgrep CONFIG_RD_ /usr/src/<path/to/latest/kernel>/.config`?
<robert_ancell> $ zgrep CONFIG_RD_ /usr/src/linux-headers-5.3.0-23-generic/.config
<robert_ancell> CONFIG_RD_GZIP=y
<robert_ancell> CONFIG_RD_BZIP2=y
<robert_ancell> CONFIG_RD_LZMA=y
<robert_ancell> CONFIG_RD_XZ=y
<robert_ancell> CONFIG_RD_LZO=y
<robert_ancell> CONFIG_RD_LZ4=y
<fidencio> robert_ancell: hmm. interesting. not a kernel change then.
<fidencio> robert_ancell: thanks a lot!
#ubuntu-desktop 2019-11-27
<sergiusens> robert_ancell_: common-id is used as the index to find the right appstream components, so using appstream to find common-ids and set them seems like going the other way around from the original design
<sergiusens> snaps can have multiple apps, thus multiple common-id's thus multiple appstream files within
<robert_ancell> sergiusens, and the appstream components are used to populate the .desktop file information in the snapcraft YAML?
<sergiusens> robert_ancell: the desktop file referenced in appstream is used to set meta/gui/<snap-name>.<app-name>.desktop
<robert_ancell> sergiusens, I see why it would be weird to do it the other way.
<jibel> hi everyone
<fidencio> jibel: morning! :-)
<jibel> hi fidencio
<jibel> fidencio, thanks for digging
<jibel> the compression method would explain why I didn't have the issue
<fidencio> jibel: what I don't understand is which component may have regressed
<fidencio> jibel: as kernel still has support for GZIP
<oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
<didrocks> good morning
<oSoMoN> salut didrocks
<didrocks> Ã§a va oSoMoN ?
<marcustomlinson> morning jibel fidencio oSoMoN and didrocks
<didrocks> hey marcustomlinson
<fidencio> marcustomlinson: morning!
<didrocks> morning fidencio
<tjaalton> jbicha: will you package new libepoxy? I'm wondering if it should be moved under xorg-team at salsa
<jibel> fidencio, how to you unpack the initrd?
<didrocks> salut jibel
<jibel> salut didrocks, Ã§a va?
<seb128> lut didrocks jibel
<seb128> hey tjaalton
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<tjaalton> yo
<jibel> fidencio, so in summary your preseed is still good with eoan and focal, it works when injected on the iso or initrd. The compression method must be lz4
<jibel> fidencio, also I realized that unmkinitramfs strips / from symlinks and the initrd rebuilt directly from main/ doesn't work. I'll have a look at it.
<fidencio> jibel: I'm not sure how virt-manager does the unpack. But yes, the summary is right. The thing to keep in mind is that it seems to be a regression, as net-install and server install work without any issue when using gzip
<didrocks> salut seb128
<didrocks> jibel: les sinus bien pris, mais sinon Ã§a va
<jibel> salut seb128
<oSoMoN> didrocks, bien mieux dormi que la nuit prÃ©cÃ©dente, donc Ã§a va bien, et toi?
<oSoMoN> good morning marcustomlinson
<oSoMoN> salut seb128
<oSoMoN> hey tjaalton
<didrocks> oSoMoN: bien pris des sinus, vivement que Ã§a s'amÃ©liore :) cool que tu ais pu rÃ©cupÃ©rer
<oSoMoN> vivement le printemps :)
<seb128> lut oSoMoN, en forme ? la nuit a Ã©tÃ© meilleure ?
<seb128> ah, tu viens de le dire :)
<oSoMoN> bien meilleure, en effet!
<seb128> vivement le printemps et vivement que les gosses aient 18 ans et arrÃªte de ramener des rhumes de la crÃ¨che ? ;)
<oSoMoN> oui, Ã§a aussi
<oSoMoN> why do people use PPAs that are advertised for testing purposes only and then send me rude e-mails to complain about broken packages and to demand a fix?
<didrocks> because they don't read the warnings?
<oSoMoN> well they should learn to read then
<jibel> seb128, Ã  18 ans ils ramÃ¨neront des trucs bien pires que des rhumes ;)
<seb128> :-(
<Laney> yo
<seb128> hey Laney marcustomlinson Wimpress, how are you today?
<Laney> hey seb128
<Laney> doing ok!
<Laney> hoping it stops raining though :(
<Laney> you?
<didrocks> hey Laney!
<seb128> I'm good, got rained on while dropping the kid to the childcare earlier but it stopped now
<seb128> I've wet feet now though :(
<seb128> marcustomlinson, I see that libreoffice is building still on some archs, looks like it go retried? what was the error?
<marcustomlinson> seb128: there was line after line of "waiting for proxy" for 9 hours or somthing so I cancelled
<marcustomlinson> also hey :)
<marcustomlinson> and hey Wimpress and Laney
<seb128> Laney, tweaking the board :)
<Laney> haha
<Laney> I forgot again that those are shared
<Laney> because it was on the default colour
<Laney> hey marcustomlinson
<oSoMoN> morning Laney
<seb128> Laney, feel free to pick a background, I tried a few but that was not great to I went back to picking a color yesterday
<Laney> ok, next time I'm on there ;-)
<Laney> o/ oSoMoN
<oSoMoN> seb128, jsunit 0.2.2-1~ubuntu0.18.04.1 is still lingering in bionic-proposed while all the related deps (thunderbird 68 and enigmail) have migrated, IÂ guess because it's new in bionic, is this something you can help with?
<seb128> oSoMoN, I think you need a SRU team member, according to the wiki it's rbasak's day today so try pinging him (well, I just did for you now ;)
<oSoMoN> :)
<seb128> oSoMoN, sorry, more work for you, but firefox 71/focal made autopkgtest sad
<seb128> oSoMoN, https://objectstorage.prodstack4-5.canonical.com/v1/AUTH_77e2ada1e7a84929a74ba3b87153c0ac/autopkgtest-focal/focal/amd64/f/firefox/20191127_082713_a9c66@/log.gz
<tjaalton> jbicha: I filed an ITA bug to move libepoxy under xorg-team
<seb128> (same on other archs, so at least it's not a weird non-standard-arch issue)
<oSoMoN> seb128, IÂ know, the html5test script needs to be updated, I'll do that today
<Laney> http://people.ubuntu.com/~laney/segv.webm
<Laney> we came up with a cool way to fix that bug
<seb128> Laney, wooot :)
<seb128> going to make didrocks (& probably others) happy :)
<seb128> Laney, just curious, what's the cool way?
<Laney> moving them out of the gnome-shell scope to a dedicated one
<Laney> mainly benzea's idea
<Laney> need to make sure there isn't any weird corner case here
<didrocks> \o/
<seb128> ah, nice
 * seb128 reads the systemd.scope documentation just to learn a bit more about it :-)
<Laney> if you do systemd-run --user --scope firefox
<Laney> that's basically the same thing
<seb128> I see, cool :)
<seb128> nothing to do with that, and maybe a stupid question, but how does gbp import-orig knows which remote/branch to use to update the upstream branch?
<Laney> it gets the version number from the tarball
<Laney> and then finds a tag for that version
<Laney> you can configure the mapping using upstream-vcs-tag in the gbp.conf, some pkgs do that already
<seb128> ah, right, tag!
<seb128> right, I had to do that when they use a non standard naming
<seb128> I was just wondering if the naming of my upstream remote matters
<Laney> nah
<seb128> it doesn't, the question just show I still struggle at time to understand how git works being the curtain :p
<seb128> thx for the reply, makes sense now that you pointed out that it matches the tag
<Laney> ð
<seb128> Laney, yet another topic ... :p when you have some slot, can you make cards as you see fit for the oem ubiquity/kernel work we should own?
<Laney> yeah, but in my head we need to nail down who is doing what first
<seb128> right, that's fine
<seb128> thx
<seb128> mdeslaur, hey, thanks for merging dbus!
<mdeslaur> seb128: np!
<Laney> ah yeah
<Laney> we should schedule getting rid of GetConnectionAppArmorSecurityContext
<Laney> wonder where I can store such ideas to be put on future cycle plans
<Laney> proposed column?
<Laney> then triage that at start of each cycle?
<seb128> Laney, or a card in the proposed column of trello?
<Laney> indeed
<seb128> what's going on with that libreoffice/amd64 build
<seb128> the build log is stucked on "cleaning up" for a while now
<seb128> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libreoffice/1:6.3.3-0ubuntu2/+build/18164526
<seb128> marcustomlinson, don't kill/restart it in any case please
<seb128> or it's still in the packaging, is that step taking a while?
<marcustomlinson> I think you just happened to look at it at a slow point
<marcustomlinson> watched pot you know ;)
<seb128> k, good :)
 * ricotz waves goodbye to i386
<oSoMoN> heh, IÂ was looking at https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/firefox/71.0+build2-0ubuntu2, and at first IÂ thought "there's something missing", only to realize it was the i386 build :)
<ricotz> same here ;)
<marcustomlinson> oh that happened today?
<oSoMoN> IÂ noticed today, but I suppose focal never included i386 builds
<oSoMoN> actually I'm wrong, it must have happened today, as https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/firefox/71.0+build2-0ubuntu1 has an i386 build
<marcustomlinson> RIP
<ppd1990> oSoMoN: Hi. A quick question, if I may: The chromium vaapi track is gone for good, isn't it?
<oSoMoN> ppd1990, you may :) it's gone, but I have an item on my to-do list to resurrect it, test it and merge the patch in the stable branch
<ppd1990> ah, great to hear. I'm looking forward to it!
<marcustomlinson> seb128: libreoffice finally finished building
<robert_ancell> kenvandine, feaneron is asking about the gnome-calendar snap showing "Canonical" as the in the store page. And also it not being the latest version. What's the state on that?
<robert_ancell> hellsworth, actually, not sure if you know anything about the gnome-calendar snap?
<robert_ancell> It looks like it was one of the older snaps that was made and hasn't been updated to automatically build.
<marcustomlinson> robert_ancell: well it looks like it has been built recently (I assume for security reasons), just not updated to build the latest version
<marcustomlinson> the snapcraft.yaml is specifically pointing at source-tag: 3.30.0
<feaneron> does ubuntu ship GNOME Calendar through snap by default?
<robert_ancell> feaneron, no
<feaneron> does Ubuntu Store prefer the snap version of Calendar when installing or searching?
<robert_ancell> feaneron, the snap version shows earlier in the searches.
<feaneron> :(
<feaneron> it's not as terrible as it could be, but it's not ideal either
<robert_ancell> I don't see any reason why it shouldn't be 3.34, other than it was probably one of the test case snaps and hasn't been updated.
<robert_ancell> marcustomlinson, was it using the current platform snap stuff?
<marcustomlinson> It's currently using the gnome-3-28 platform
<kenvandine> EDS versions, I think
<robert_ancell> aha
<kenvandine> We're working on getting GNOME as a publisher in the store as well
<kenvandine> The problem is compatibility with the host version of EDS for bionic and other supported releases
<kenvandine> I'll make sure we get it updated over the next few weeks
<robert_ancell> feaneron, what does the calendar flatpak do for eds compatibility? Just not work on older releases?
<kenvandine> And if we can get the yaml merged upstream we can get an autobuild setup as well
<kenvandine> It runs it's own daemon in the sandbox
<feaneron> Right now, nothing; this EDS transition is being really painful
<kenvandine> That's our holdup
<feaneron> I would like to add a runtime check to see if the newer EDS D-Bus interfaces are available, but that would require a string freeze exception
<kenvandine> We want it to work with EDS in 18.04
<marcustomlinson> that's quite a doozy
<feaneron> kenvandine: running the daemon inside the sandbox turns out to be... bad. Sandbox EDS doesn't communicate Host EDS, and it looses all platform integration
<feaneron> that's what the development Flatpak of Calendar used to do, and it's really annoying
<kenvandine> Right
<kenvandine> Which is why I stopped updating the snap
<kenvandine> feaneron: I'm open to suggestions :-)
<feaneron> Me too. I just can't find a solution where we win this fight.
<kenvandine> :-\
<feaneron> Beyond, of course, make Calendar not use EDS at all
<feaneron> which also means loosing all platform integration
<kenvandine> feaneron:  I'll see if jamesh might have ideas
<kenvandine> Losing platform integration would suck
<seb128> marcustomlinson, thx, seems like it picked the slowest buildd or something!
<marcustomlinson> yeah crazy slow
<ahayzen> if EDS could talk multiple versions of it's api/protocol then the client and server could meet at a common level, but i guess this would be tricky to implement.  This seems like a major problem that snaps/flatpak need to figure out as the same appears to happen for other things like tracker and online accounts etc ?
<robert_ancell> ahayzen, the traditional distribution model has meant that user services have trended to having very dynamic APIs. That has to change in the sandboxed app future.
<robert_ancell> System services are generally better done.
<ahayzen> robert_ancell, but if the system service supported version 2 of the API, and then the client supported version 1,2,3 they could meet with version 2, and the same the other way around.  But yeah services need a more stable interface, i wonder if some of these things almost warrant a portal to exchange the data in a common way to/from the system
<robert_ancell> ahayzen, I guess portals will abstract away some of the simpler cases, but the more complex stuff like EDS will be harder.
<ahayzen> robert_ancell, hey, random other question, i was trying to hack on the gnome software snap plugin earlier, and i tried building gnome software master on fedora 31. But whenever i tried to open a snap in the store it would crash, is this expected that things are broken on master, as i know ubuntu has an old gnome software or maybe i built it wrong?
<robert_ancell> ahayzen, no, that's not expected - do you have a backtrace?
<robert_ancell> I'll spin up my F31 VM and try building it there.
<ahayzen> robert_ancell, i can get one :-)
 * ahayzen spins up VM
<ahayzen> robert_ancell, if i click on Ardour from the start page, this happens https://pastebin.ubuntu.com/p/YSCHgxNHgk/  ... but if i click on some others it doesn't crash (like Kotlin)
<robert_ancell> Interesting (in a bad way)
<ahayzen> :-)
<robert_ancell> It might be a threading issue, but if I can easily reproduce that is useful.
<robert_ancell> I've seen similar issues before in crash reports, but not been able to reproduce.
 * robert_ancell is dnf installing dependencies...
<ahayzen> this is a KVM VM with 2 CPUs and 3096 MB RAM for reference
<robert_ancell> ah, good. We're both on VMs.
<robert_ancell> ahayzen, I only give my VMs 2048 MB :)
<ahayzen> hehe i usually do as well, but as i was building stuff i thought i'd give it more :-)
<robert_ancell> Though I just updated my laptop from 8GB to 16GB, so I now have some more RAM for hungry VMs
<robert_ancell> ahayzen, https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gnome-software/merge_requests/372
<gitbot> GNOME issue (Merge request) 372 in gnome-software "snap: Don't try to get alternatives for non-snaps" [Opened]
<robert_ancell> Thanks for letting me know!
#ubuntu-desktop 2019-11-28
<ahayzen> robert_ancell, yey thanks! :-) no problem ... now to work out why gnome-software crashes opening the updates panel, but that seems unrelated to the snap plugin :-)
<robert_ancell> Crashes for me here too :(
<ahayzen> :-(
<oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
<jibel> salut oSoMoN, Ã§a va?
<oSoMoN> jibel, Ã§a va, et toi?
<jibel> oSoMoN, envie de vacances et de soleil mais sinon bien bien :)
<oSoMoN> tiens, des vacances Ã§a ne ferait pas de mal, en effet
<didrocks> good morning
<oSoMoN> salut diddledan
<oSoMoN> salut didrocks*
<didrocks> hello oSoMoN
<marcustomlinson> morning oSoMoN jibel didrocks
<jibel> good morning marcustomlinson
<didrocks> hey marcustomlinson, salut jibel
<jibel> salut didrocks
<seb128> gooood morning desktopers
<didrocks> salut seb128
<marcustomlinson> hey seb128
<seb128> lut didrocks, hey marcustomlinson
<seb128> how is it going for you today?
<didrocks> Ã§a va mieux aujourd'hui, merci
<jibel> salut seb128
<jibel> going super well, sun shines so no wet feet today :)
<seb128> lut jibel! you got teleported to Spain overnight? ;)
<seb128> or you just sent us the water? it's raining non stop this morning here...
<jibel> oh man I'd love that, I hate the never ending grey and low sky of normandy
<marcustomlinson> seb128: yeah good, looks like libreoffice will unblock stuff now
<seb128> marcustomlinson, I retried some autopkgtest, hopefully things clear up!
<seb128> marcustomlinson, Trevinho, how is the clipboard issue going btw?
<marcustomlinson> Trevinho: pretty please could you comment on https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=128803
<ubot5> bugs.documentfoundation.org bug 128803 in Calc "Copy / pasting text in Calc sometimes pastes as an image" [Normal,New]
<marcustomlinson> seb128: admittedly I've not looked into LO code to try fix this myself. At this stage I'm just trying to get info in upstream's hands
<seb128> marcustomlinson, sounds fine to me, the ping was more for Trevinho who said he had something to push/discuss with Carlos
<seb128> or we should at least get the fix from Carlos as an improvement until Marco has time to do the other changes he wanted
<Laney> yo
<seb128> hey Laney, how is it today?
<didrocks> hey Laney
<Laney> hey seb128 didrocks
<Laney> going goooooodddd
<seb128> :-)
<Laney> grey and low sky sounds about right for here too
<Laney> you?
<seb128> going good, I managed to not get too way on the way to drop the kid, umbrella and proper shoes ftw!
<Laney> winter is lame
<marcustomlinson> hey Laney
<Laney> yo marcustomlinson
<oSoMoN> Laney, https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/update_excuses.html is complaining that firefox, which was built yesterday, is missing an i386 build, but IÂ think that's expected, right?
<Laney> pretty much
<Laney> I think Steve's supposed to be mass removing those things
<Laney> not sure if other archive admins are expected/allowed to do it earlier
<oSoMoN> didrocks, seb128:Â can you comment on this?
<seb128> oSoMoN, I don't know, I asked a similar question to Steve on #ubuntu-devel earlier
<seb128> it feels like a lack of communication again to me...
<seb128> he should have sent a FYI/details to -devel/discourse before going ahead imho
<oSoMoN> agreed
<Laney> I would say it's probably fine to do it to get individual things to migrate
<didrocks> agreed with seb128
<vicky> Hi. With Gdm I see the below error
<vicky> [Â  Â  39.522] (EE) /etc/libinput/local-overrides.quirks: failed to open file
<vicky> https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/mGBz4Vci
<vicky> Any idea what could be the issue?
<vicky> With kde and lxde it works
<seb128> vicky, no idea, maybe a local configuration? does gdm fails to load or what?
<vicky> seb128: yes gdm-x-session fails to load.
<vicky> seb128: When I try with 'libinput debug-gui' after I login, it reads the configuration
<seb128> vicky, ls -ld /usr/share/libinput
<seb128> vicky, ls -l /usr/share/libinput
<seb128> can you pastebin the output of those?
<vicky> seb128: Sure I will take those and wil paste it
<seb128> thx
<seb128> Laney, looking at http://autopkgtest.ubuntu.com/running
<seb128> Laney, looking for ['nss/2:3.47-1ubuntu2']
<seb128> Laney, that test has a log which shows apt packages install log but is ongoing for almost 5 hours, is that a sign that the job is stucked/really slow or just that the log is not updating?
<Laney> seb128: is it still there?
<Laney> no match for that string
<seb128> Laney, I guess log don't update then
<seb128> Laney, ['libepoxy/1.5.4-1', 'libreoffice/1:6.3.3-0ubuntu2'] is a similar case
<seb128> or ['liborcus/0.15.3-2', 'libreoffice/1:6.3.3-0ubuntu2']
<seb128> 3h 43m 15s
<Laney> it's kind of normal for this stage to take a while
<Laney> autopkgtest is copying libreoffice across the ocean at this point :(
<Laney> unpacked
<seb128> crazyness
<Laney> it is going to move on at some point
<Laney> doing that for n libreoffice tests in parallel makes them all slow
<seb128> Laney, thx for the reply, hopefully those clear off by tomorrow
<seb128> 3h40 just seemed over the top for setting up the env
<seb128> right
<seb128> I should just do something else that proposed migration at this point
<marcustomlinson> wassnme
<seb128> between i386 which I don't know what to do about and libreoffice backlog, just need to wait a bit for things to settle down
<Laney> its not setting it up for the first time
<seb128> Trevinho, you will be happy, wrapping your week on a good news, I clicked the publish button on your bionic/search-provider SRU :-)
<Trevinho> lovely :)
<Trevinho> well, will then take some time for goiung through all the reviews...
<Trevinho> but startting from smth
<Laney> ah XUbuntuCancel, that short term solution
<seb128> less than a decade is short right? :)
<seb128> Laney, wooot, valgrind fix uploaded for bug #1848211 :)
<ubot5> bug 1848211 in valgrind (Ubuntu Focal) "[SRU] valgrind fails to use debug symbols from glib/gtk" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1848211
<Laney> ohhhhhhhhhhhhhh
<Laney> awesome
<Laney> the rls process in action
<jbicha> tjaalton: thanks for libepoxy
#ubuntu-desktop 2019-11-29
<jibel> morning all
<oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers, happy Friday!
<jibel> salut oSoMoN
<didrocks> good morning
<jibel> hello didrocks
<didrocks> salut jibel
<oSoMoN> salut jibel, didrocks
<didrocks> salut oSoMoN, bonne demi-journÃ©e :)
<didrocks> ou on devrait dire, joyeux vendredi midi :p
<oSoMoN> merci :)
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<didrocks> hey seb128
<seb128> lut didrocks, bon vendredi! en forme ?
<didrocks> Ã§a va, et toi ?
<seb128> Ã§a va :)
<Laney> hullo
<seb128> hey Laney, happy friday! how are you?
<Wimpress> Morning o/
<seb128> hey Wimpress, happy friday to you as well!
<Wimpress> And to all of you :-)
<marcustomlinson> morning jibel oSoMoN didrocks seb128 Laney and Wimpress
<seb128> hey marcustomlinson, happy friday to you! how are you?
<marcustomlinson> :)
<marcustomlinson> I'm happy thanks :) how are you seb128?
<seb128> I'm good! trying to not get sidetracked too much so I can wrap the week with things I wanted done checked
<seb128> it's hard, I got stucked into unblocking proposed things more than I should have...
<seb128> oh well, still useful work!
<Laney> hey seb128 Wimpress marcustomlinson
<Laney> doing goooooodddddd, nice and sunny today
<marcustomlinson> seb128: and we're grateful!!
<seb128> Laney, sun is back here too :)
<didrocks> hey Laney, marcustomlinson, Wimpress
<seb128> also yesterday is stopped raining around 8pm, just in time for tennis training, was great being outside and moving/hitting balls :)
<seb128> Laney, can you mark http://autopkgtest.ubuntu.com/packages/b/bubblewrap/focal/s390x to skip to let the new bubblewrap migrate? it's clearly not a regression from the new version seeing the history
<seb128> (restarting session, brb)
<Laney> seb128: want to do a merge request against lp:~ubuntu-release/britney/hints-ubuntu/ ?
<seb128> Laney, can do
<Laney> cool beans
<seb128> shrug, launchpad, the proposed/default target is wrong, ~ubuntu-archive/britney/britney2
 * seb128 tries again
<seb128> Laney, https://code.launchpad.net/~seb128/britney/update-bubblewrap-version/+merge/376172
<seb128> oSoMoN, did you ask robert about the 0ad banner in gnome-software?
<Laney> ty
<Laney> wouldn't it be good if launchpad had a merge button there
<seb128> indeed...
<seb128> oSoMoN, can you push your pristine-tar and upstream/latest branches for librsvg?
<oSoMoN> seb128, I did, and the version in -proposed displays it, so all good
<oSoMoN> (re 0ad banner)
<seb128> oSoMoN, ah, nice
<oSoMoN> IÂ thought the SRU had been published to -updates already
<oSoMoN> seb128, I'll push librsvg branches now
<seb128> oSoMoN, confirmed that g-s/proposed shows the banner, though it's center/only half the screen, but that might have to do with the ratio of the image?
<seb128> oSoMoN, and thx for pushing :)
<seb128> (brb, relocating to a quiet place for a video meeting)
<seb128> oSoMoN, sorry I had to drop offline for a bit
<oSoMoN> seb128, no worries, still working on figuring out how to update those branches, IÂ thought Philip had done them in his fork, but IÂ was wrong
<seb128> oSoMoN, I would recommend doing a checkout from salsa, do gbp import-orig on the newest version
<seb128> then rebase debian/master with your changes
<seb128> going to be easier than trying to update those
<oSoMoN> yeah, but gbp import-orig is complaining that it can't find upstream vcs tag at '2.46.4^{}'
<Laney> did you add upstream as a remote?
<Laney> git remote add upstream git@gitlab.gnome.org:GNOME/librsvg.git --fetch  # or something
<oSoMoN> no indeed, IÂ just came to this conclusionâ¦ /me facepalms
<seb128> oSoMoN, git remote add -f gnome git@gitlab.gnome.org:GNOME/librsvg.git
<seb128> or maybe you have it and just need to fetch?
<seb128> lol
<seb128> oSoMoN, that can wait monday if you had other things to wrap before the w.e or if that's going to take too long
<oSoMoN> seb128, https://salsa.debian.org/osomon-guest/librsvg/tree/upstream/latest and https://salsa.debian.org/osomon-guest/librsvg/tree/pristine-tar
<oSoMoN> sorry for the delay
<oSoMoN> IÂ had to manually merge upstream's 2.46 branch into upstream/latest, no amount of gbp import-orig would do it
<Laney> oSoMoN: https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/9sJPm3ZMFn/ wonder what went wrong for you :(
<seb128> oSoMoN, weird... Laney snapped me there :-)
<oSoMoN> IÂ must have messed up with my git configâ¦
<oSoMoN> anyway, IÂ believe the contents of the upstream/latest branch should be the same, seeing the output of your command
<oSoMoN> and gbp pristine-tar worked fine
<seb128> brb, restarting my session with the new librsvg :)
<seb128> oSoMoN, works fine :-)
 * oSoMoN does a little dance
<seb128> oSoMoN, any objection to upload to unstable (compared to experimental)?
<seb128> Laney, ^
<Laney> not in principle but I don't know any of the details
<Laney> would recommend #debian-gnome for this of course :>
<seb128> I asked there the other day, I'm going to assume it's fine, I tested it and it's a stable serie other distros have
<seb128> thx :)
<seb128> I though you mentioned experimental though so want to double check with you that I was not overlooking an hint you had
<Laney> probably if you wanted to get confidence or something
<seb128> right, I think it should be fine now that I tested it, it's a stable GNOME serie no reason to be paranoid there
 * Laney looks at gtk reftest failures :(
<Laney> hate these
<oSoMoN> okay, I'm officially calling it a week, have a great week-end everyone!
<Laney> woah
<Laney> the sun just passed across a window opposite and directly reflected into my eyes
 * Laney can't see much atm
<marcustomlinson> Damn sun
<Laney> turn it off I say
<marcustomlinson> Letâs face it, global warming wouldnât be a thing without it
<RikMills> we need a low power LED version
 * Laney is doing abort() based debugging
<Laney> it's like printf debugging but generates a shit ton of core dumps
<Laney> jamesh: https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gnome-shell/merge_requests/867 might want to consider the snap detection stuff in there (fyi)
<gitbot> GNOME issue (Merge request) 867 in gnome-shell "weather: Only require auto-location authorization if sandboxed" [Opened]
#ubuntu-desktop 2019-12-01
<LargePrime> palemoon install gives this https://pastebin.ubuntu.com/p/KrrhCTk9XZ/
<LargePrime> https://packages.ubuntu.com/eoan/libc6-i386
<LargePrime> why can i not upgrade libc6 to 2.3
