#ubuntu-uk 2011-07-25
<ging> anyone know how to make gnome terminal work with tabs but not switch between them with alt+number ?
<ging> deleting all the short cuts worked, but seems the wrong way of doing it
<shauno> confusing the life out of myself with routing this morning.  connecting to my vps with ptppd.  I can resolve & reach (e.g.) google.com.  I know I'm reaching it because I get a '301 Moved Permanently' sending me to www.google.com, and then a 302 Found sending me onwards to www.google.co.uk.  so data is getting back to me
<shauno> but I can't load any pages at all.  wget hangs on 'awaiting response'
<czajkowski> Aloha
<daubers> Morning
<DJones> Morning
<shauno> hm.  should probably leave messing with iptables until I get home :/
<AlanBell> morning
<shauno> o/
<daubers> o/
<shauno> rather annoying.  don't think I've touched iptables / ufw since I used pptp last.  it just doesn't work anymore :/
 * daubers waits for the SEB man to turn up
<diplo> Morning all
<hoover> morning all
<MooDoo> hello
<bigcalm> Good morning you Monday people :)
<MooDoo> WTF is going on, it's manic at work, thought it was supposed to be the summer hols
<daubers> meter changed
<bigcalm> People are trying to get as much done before they are forced to take time off with their children
 * MooDoo hugs czajkowski as she sounds on a downer x
<oimon> it's quiet in here, everyone on holiday?
<MooDoo> it's monday....everyone is probably either still in bed or snowed under
 * hoover 's playing a game of nethack
<hoover> the first time in ages
<hoover> DL7 in the Gnomish Mines ATM
<oimon> i was working this weekend for a powerdown/powerup..had lots of issues and feeling rather weary today
<MooDoo> oimon, sounds like you need a kip
<oimon> i'm at work again
<oimon> taking wednesday off for my trouble
<oimon> SAN failed to update and some switches failed
<hoover> I was on call over the weekend, got woken up 3:30 on Sun. morning by a full /var FS 8-P
<oimon> how annoying
<oimon> webserver?
<hoover> na, customers ftp server
<hoover> 1GB /var fs... skanky. ;-)
<jpds> Why have /var on a partition?
<bigcalm> If it's a high-write area, it makes sense to have it on a seperate disc
<popey> so logs dont fill up /
<oimon> also, if logfiles fill your /...yes as popey said
<oimon> not necessary on desktop PC, but very necessary on servers
<brobostigon> morning eveyrone.
<hoover> mornin brobostigon, hi bigcalm
<brobostigon> mmorning hoover
<bigcalm> Howdy hoovie :)
<brobostigon> mmorning bigcalm
<bigcalm> Hullo brobostigon :)
<bigcalm> I wonder if I can get Mondays off from now until the end of time
 * bigcalm slumps with his coffee
<hoover> biggie, are you on google plus?
<bigcalm> hoover: http://cuth.eu/+
<hoover> thx done ;-)
<bigcalm> :D
<brobostigon> :)
<ubuntuuk-planet> [oimon] Remove windows tax before purchase..save Â£64 - http://oimon.wordpress.com/2011/07/25/remove-windows-tax-before-purchase-save-64/
<popey> AlanBell: poke yamatt on irc about camping at oggcamp pls
<bigcalm> 3 weeks to go!
<bigcalm> OMG
 * MooDoo really wanted to go to that :(
<bigcalm> MooDoo: plan for next year!
<bigcalm> OggCamp 100
<MooDoo> bigcalm, yeah i'll have to do that.
<AlanBell> they have already booked the campsite popey, about 20 people
<popey> so i hear
<MooDoo> oooo never thought of camping :)  that's a cool idea
<oimon> my dad is in farnham and my in-laws are in guildford :D
 * StevenR wonders how to find the dell n series laptops
<oimon> StevenR: it's possible that they exist too, but you have to ask :-\
<StevenR> oimon: so nothing on the website?
<oimon> i think regional dell sites have the choice to display what they want on the site, however it doesn't mean they don't sell them :)
<oimon> UK site is notorious for it
<StevenR> oimon: yeah :/   not that I really need a new laptop yet :)
 * MooDoo just noticed a small crack on his laptops display :(
<oimon> MooDoo: :( still in warranty?
<MooDoo> oimon, no about 3/4 years old......it's not bad crack, just something to watch out for
<popey> MooDoo: a minor defect on your laptop, you know what that means?
<popey> New laptop time!
 * popey wonders what laptop sabdfl would recommend for Ubuntu  :D
 * MooDoo is thinking of going to popey route...mac
<popey> Don't do it man
<MooDoo> popey, don't recommend macs then?
<popey> Depends
<popey> Macs are great if you want to run OSX
<diplo> :q
<diplo> oops
<popey> Less great if you want to run Free software OSs
<AlanBell> I would recommend buying the exact same model sabdfl or silbs has
<AlanBell> bugs get attention
 * daubers is bored of laptops
<Laney> i quite happily run ubuntu on my mbp
 * daubers wants a desktop that is integrated into his desk
<popey> get one thats integrated into your legs
<Laney> without the 'top' then
<daubers> popey: I'm not Kevin Warwick :)
<MooDoo> daubers, one like he had in the original trol?
<MooDoo> tron?
<daubers> MooDoo: That would be cool, but not good for your neck
 * brobostigon wants a monitor, the size of a wall.
 * MooDoo just wants a desktop pc, had enough with just a laptop
<oimon> btw anyone running natty in classic mode? bug 735070 is really annoying me!
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 735070 in software-center (Ubuntu) "When installing programs in Software Center, extra debconf window occasionally appears" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/735070
<oimon> wonder if it affects everyone
<daubers> I think the best PC would be a big desktop somewhere, with the input device as a wireless tablet, like the new Nintendo console has
<daubers> that would be _amazing_
<hoover> brb lunch
<oimon> mmm elevenses..
<davmor2> morning people how was the weekend?
<MooDoo> davmor2, morning buddy, busy but pleasant
<davmor2> MooDoo: How's wifey?
<popey> A friend of mine says " If anyone knows any good windows admins in Reading who are looking for alternative employment, we've got a couple of positions open"
<popey> followed by another friend who says "The only good Windows admin is a..."
<davmor2> oneiric is glitchy but my god the finished product will be much better than natty
<MooDoo> davmor2, she's ok.....
<davmor2> MooDoo: good,good :)
<gord> "alternative employment" sounds scary
<davmor2> gord: just means different to the employment you are in
<Mez> gord: espescially combined with "a couple of positions open"
<gord> davmor2, yes i was being whimsical :P
<davmor2> I know I just thought I'd ruin it for you :)
<davmor2> gord: you got dungeon siege 3?  /me is annoyed that there are no pack animals
<gord> davmor2, nope, no good co-op ruins it for me
<davmor2> gord: I recommend you get it for the single player mode alone when you can get it cheap,  it's a really enjoyable game, although it's slower paced than things like dragon age it's a beautiful and tricky game :)
<directhex> moo.
<daubers> popey: I might know someone
<davmor2> directhex: morning good sir
<davmor2> directhex: are you the mono fan?
<directhex> davmor2, maybe. why? /me hides from ninjas
<davmor2> directhex: there is a new game called spacechem in Ubuntu Software Center that runs on it I was wondering why with crappy gfx mono would use 120% of the cpu but with good gfx it would use 35-50%
<davmor2> directhex: I'm wondering if there is a bug in there for optimisation maybe?
<directhex> davmor2, i suspect it's more likely to come from Tao, which is the library which wraps OpenGL - i.e. it's using your CPU more when you turn down the GPU detail, and using the GPU less
<directhex> davmor2, it might also be a GPU driver bug - it's much smoother on my Intel laptop than FGLRX desktop
<davmor2> directhex: ah see now that would makes some sort of sense.
<gord> binary drivers tend to suck at 2d acceleration on linux, i would assume its trying to go down that route
<davmor2> directhex: possible it was using the built-in nvidia 8100 gfx which has been fine till I've had to start testing the games in USC
<directhex> davmor2, i wouldn't trust an 8100 to draw more than a couple of dozen things at once
<davmor2> directhex: yeah I treated myself to a new amd/ati HD5450 1 gig ddr3 card on saturday much better now
<oimon> docky is behaving terribly on my new machine, have now disocvered cairo dock...quite nice!
<brobostigon> i admit to be somewhat amazed by gingerbread on my htc dream. it is so smooth and quick, it is amazing. also, with only the two google services running, over 1/2 the ram, stays free, so nice and low ram usage aswell.
<oimon> brobostigon: which version number is GB?
<brobostigon> oimon: 2.3.*
<oimon> is your phone also charging quicker?
<brobostigon> about the same.
<oimon> i've noticed that since CM7 my phone charges a lot quicker ...something strange about thatr
<brobostigon> agreed.
<oimon> after a few weeks of use on CM7 i like some bits but also dislike other bits
<brobostigon> oimon: i like that gingerbread is more battery friendly and process management is better. and also the darker themeing, it is easier on my eyes, closer to how i have gnome-terminal setup, dark background, white text.
<oimon> contact management sucks a bit
<oimon> compared to sense
<brobostigon> i have never used sense in full blown, only play, for a few minutes.
<brobostigon> i tend to use the folders alot, fo filter which kinds of contacts i see.
<oimon> in sense, i can hit the phone key then start typing the name of the contact rather than the number
<oimon> on the phone screen
<directhex> i keep needing to reboot my phone running wp7
<directhex> um, cm7
<brobostigon> i calculated the other day, my battery could last, 28 hours under normal usage now, under gingerbread, which is the best of any android version, i have used upto now, on my htc dream.
<directhex> random stuff stops working - e.g. screen won't update, apps with black screens, status screen won't go away, etc
<brobostigon> oimon: ah, i see, i have a proper hw keyboard on mine, so can do that, with the standard addr book.
<brobostigon> directhex: i have aosp gingerbread here, and have seen nothing like that behaviour.
<Ng> directhex: you have a windows phone 7 phone?
<directhex> Ng, i meant CM7. i won't buy into WP7 until i can transfer music on via banshee
<Ng> CM7?
<brobostigon> Ng: cyanogenmod 7.
<directhex> which i can't, because microsoft decided the iphone was popular due to DRM, and decided to implement the zune's encrypted audio transfer protocol
<Ng> oh
<andylockran> hey
<Ng> I'm just curious that I don't appear to know anybody who uses winphone7
<Ng> *somebody* must have bought one, surely ;)
<directhex> Ng, it's a fringe platform right now
<directhex> Ng, from what i've seen on the web, it's a nice platform. but too locked down.
<Ng> directhex: fringe platforms are the norm around here ;)
<oimon> i know someone with an HTC phone that runs win phone, ...but he put android on it instead
<directhex> oimon, has HTC put out a "runs any mobile OS" piece of hardware with windows originally since the WM6.5 based HTC HD 2?
<oimon> i thinik he has the HD2
<directhex> WM6.5 has as much bearing on WP7 as openmoko does on android
<andylockran> :D
<directhex> HTC are the only ones who even made WM6.5 remotely useful for the last couple of years of its life, by replacing pretty much every part of the ui and app stack
<oimon> i've never seen a zune IRl
<oimon> i will prob never see a WP7 either :P
<directhex> they didn't ship zune in the uk, iirc
<directhex> wp7 will get more visible when the marketing push from nokia starts
<directhex> well that's an unexpected /join
<Myrtti> not really
<Myrtti> :-(
<Myrtti> and :-)
<davmor2> oimon: You not missing much to be honest :)
<oimon> i rarely see my own mp3 player tbh...stays in my pocket and never needs charging
<Myrtti> people still have mp3 players?
<Myrtti> wow :-P
<oimon> to listen via my phone would suck too much battery
<directhex> yeah. my wife is cross that the supply of good ones has dried up
<sabdfl> hello directhex :-)
<directhex> nowadays a high-end mp3 player is a phone with the phone part ripped out. which seems pointless
<popey> hah
<popey> I still use my iRiver iHP-140 on a daily basis :D
<popey> Lasted well that old clunker has.
<popey> Mostly listen to HHGTTG in bed.
<AlanBell> hi sabdfl
<oimon> i loved my iriver, but it got nicked. however my cowon iaudio is a worthy replacement
<davmor2> Myrtti: Yes I do it has much bigger storage than my phone and is dedicated to one task and does it brilliantly unlike some3 phones
<directhex> wife has managed to demolish 3 mp3 players since we started dating
<sabdfl> i haven't yet figure out why xchat-gnome places me in this room whenever i fire it up
<sabdfl> but i like the chatter here so don't mind :-)
<brobostigon> :)
<oimon> could think of more unfriendly places to arrive at :)
<AlanBell> it joins #ubuntu-GB as that is the country code and that redirects to here
<directhex> oimon, imagine joining #ubuntu-fr. it's filled with the french!
<oimon> moi, j'aime les francais :D
<AlanBell> and half of Canada
<Myrtti> davmor2: alright :-> I'd be listening to mostly audiobooks and I'm not sure if any mp3 player that I'd bother to pay for would work as well as my phone does for those
<brobostigon> does xchat do some detection of you ip addr, and works out where you are, and then joins the relevant regional ubuntu irc room ?
<davmor2> sabdfl: That's cause all the cool kids hang out here so it knew you wanted to be here too :)
<AlanBell> brobostigon: no, it is the countrycode of your locale settings
<brobostigon> AlanBell: ah, ok. interesting.
 * TheOpenSourcerer thinks it is time for lunch. Left over boeuf bourguignon, nom nom.
<brobostigon> good plan TheOpenSourcerer :)
<Myrtti> xchat-gnome is a sad apparatus :-(
 * brobostigon gets lunch also.
<sabdfl> i'm going to try #ubuntu-im :-)
<directhex> Myrtti, we have staff using empathy for IRC. not something i encourage.
<davmor2> Myrtti: I think mine has a dedicated section for audio books so it would probably do that better too
<sabdfl> just me in there :(
<sabdfl> small island!
<Myrtti> davmor2: does it had a pause timer? I listen to my books and podcasts in 30 min increments in bed
<DJones> sabdfl: At least you'll have op's in #ubuntu-im :)
<Laney> who wants to lend me some bonjela?
<davmor2> Myrtti: don't know I've never looked to be honest,  I'll have a look at some point and get back to you
<AlanBell> sabdfl: http://ubuntu-uk.org/where-are-we/ there is at least one other ubuntu user there
<Myrtti> I wish I could put two pins on that map :-/
<AlanBell> Myrtti: does it prevent you??
 * oimon tries to find isle of man on a map of GB :$
 * brobostigon has lashings of ginger beer.
 * Myrtti tries
<Myrtti> "Duplicate comment detected; it looks as though youâve already said that!"
<AlanBell> oimon: in the Irish sea
<oimon> AlanBell: found it, i was looking there but somehow looking too close to land
<AlanBell> Myrtti: ok, I will look into that later and remove that block
 * oimon looks at the other isle of man ubuntu user's twitter page
 * daubers wonders if there's any libraries that do travel routing
<oimon> dell have confirmed that the missing PC i had on order has been "lost" in transit and will replace
<oimon> :-S
<directhex> ._.
<davmor2> Myrtti: Yes it has a sleep function that you can set from anything from 1-120 minutes by the look of it, http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=6&ved=0CE4QFjAF&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sandisk.com%2Fmedia%2F343157%2Ffuze_um_0809_eng.pdf&rct=j&q=sansa%20fuze%20auto%20pause&ei=p1QtTrKoFtOxhQedvsSqCw&usg=AFQjCNE8NE_HW9HQPbfXyk6Z4kqur3lBRQ
<davmor2> Myrtti: and when ever it powers off when you switch it back on it's where it switched off
<gord> i still say someone needs to make a sound font for the kindle, that uses brian blessed's voice to read your books to you
<gord> would sell billions
<daubers> GAH EVOLUTION IS RUBBISH
<davmor2> gord: the only problem is you'd want to hear him burst into laughter every 2 minutes would kinda ruin the book :)
<popey> daubers: is that supposed to be brian blessed?
<daubers> Right click on a calender to change its pref as you got the URI wrong and it pops up a box telling you it can't connect to the calender!
<davmor2> daubers: no it isn't at least it shows my all my folders I had to brute force thunderbird to do the same thing
<popey> People stil use desktop email clients huh? Quaint.
<daubers> davmor2: I'm racing my computer to try and click an option before it pops up a box that moves the focus
<daubers> popey: Work email :) Useful to have notifications for when people who pay me money need support
<davmor2> daubers: I got the same thing on thunderbird, it turned out I was using the wrong google calendar link I was using the read only public one rather than the private read write one :)
<gord> i can't get used to using "applications" in a web browser, no idea why
<directhex> gord, because unity does a bad job of letting them be applications?
<popey> directhex: http://meow.popey.com/
<oimon> evolution was a complete fail at calendarnig for me, thunderbird only a bit better, but still needs regular (every few days) restarts or the calendar seizes up
<gord> we actually used to have great webapp support, but there are inherent problems with the model
<directhex> popey, when my chromium windows don't show up in unity as tweetdeck windows, i'll feel better
<gord> namely, that you can leave the webapp and go to google.com or something
<Myrtti> davmor2: oh so that's one of the mp3 players I actually considered buying at one time
 * daubers kicks evolution and gives up
<popey> "You are leaving this webapp, would you like to open in a new window? (Y/N)  [*] Make this default"
<popey> surely thats not that hard?
<gord> how do you know you are leaving the webapp?
<voidspace> I've created a RAID 5 array (software raid using mdadm) with 3 drives
<gord> there is no standard for this stuff
<davmor2> Myrtti: also supports ogg if you do the firmware update too :)
<voidspace> it is now reporting "raid level 5 active with 2 out of 3 devices, algorithm 2"
<popey> gord: stop talking, fix it!
<popey> :D
<voidspace> does this sounds right
 * gord starts yelling at web developers until they get themselves standardised
<gord> see you guys in 10 years
<gord> maybe
<davmor2> gord: only 10 that is optimistic
<daubers> voidspace: Is it building the raid still?
<voidspace> web guys are the *most* standardised - they have *lots* of standards
<voidspace> daubers: I think so
<daubers> voidspace: Can you pastebin /proc/mdstat
<daubers> !pastebin
<lubotu3> For posting multi-line texts into the channel, please use http://paste.ubuntu.com | To post !screenshots use http://imagebin.org/?page=add | !pastebinit to paste directly from command line | Make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the channel topic.
<voidspace> daubers: there is a syslog message that concerns me
<voidspace> daubers: DegradedArray event detected on md device /dev/md0
<daubers> voidspace: pastebin the output from "cat /proc/mdstat", that'll be more informative
<voidspace> daubers: http://paste.pocoo.org/show/445959/
<voidspace> daubers: the UU_ concerns me
<voidspace> daubers: I didn't think RAID 5 had "spare" drives, but striped data
<voidspace> daubers: but I freely admit to not knowing what I'm talking about :-)
<daubers> voidspace: It's fine :) When you generate a new raid5/6 with mdadm it crates a degraded one and then rebuilds it
<daubers> voidspace: raid 5 is striped with a single parity stripe
<voidspace> daubers: ah, cool - that was the alternative diagnosis and I couldn't find clear information as to which one it was...
<voidspace> daubers: you have put my mind at ease :-)
<daubers> voidspace: so 1 disk can fail and you have a lesser chance of  losing data
<voidspace> daubers: thanks
<voidspace> daubers: right
<daubers> voidspace: The wikipedia article on raid levels is quite good :)
<voidspace> daubers: hah, yeah - I tried reading that a few times...
<daubers> voidspace: You heading to oggcamp?
<voidspace> daubers: no :-(
<daubers> voidspace: Ah, I'd have been happy to go over it with you with diagrams if it helped :) bit easier in person with props
<davmor2> Myrtti: I can recommend it completely I've had no issues with it at all :)
<voidspace> daubers: yeah, that would definitely help - although the articles I read on RAID 5 showed striped parity data
<voidspace> daubers: but I'm quite happy to believe you
<voidspace> next question, how do I get my box to broadcast (or be available on the network) by name?
<voidspace> I can ssh in by ip address but not by name
<daubers> voidspace: The parity is striped in raid5, it's not in raid3 (you have 2 parity stripes in raid6)
<voidspace> daubers: right, so the parity data is striped across all the drives?
<daubers> voidspace: yep
<voidspace> daubers: right, so what does the UU_ from mdstat mean?
<daubers> voidspace: That means that it's a degraded array (missing the last disk)
<voidspace> daubers: right, but for a new array it's still normal
<daubers> voidspace: As above, thats because a new raid set is generated as a degraded one and then rebuilt by mdadm
<daubers> voidspace: yes. It should go away in about an hour :)
<voidspace> daubers: ok, it just picks the last disk to be the degraded one
<daubers> voidspace: Pretty much
<voidspace> daubers: any idea about my question on network name? (sorry to pick on you - but you know what the reward for being helpful is...)
<daubers> voidspace: That one I don't know :) I'm not sure how the magic distributed dns voodoo works. I just have an old fashioned dns server on my network
<voidspace> hehe
<voidspace> hmm... so I can ssh into my Mac by name
<voidspace> I wonder if it is running a dns server?
<daubers> voidspace: Might be something to do with avahi
<voidspace> right
<daubers> does mdns is the magic bit
<voidspace> ParseError
<daubers> voidspace: Whats the output of avahi-browse -a
<daubers> pastebin it :)
<voidspace> well, avahi wasn't installed
<daubers> voidspace: Install it and try it. It should do the magic lookups for you
<voidspace> daubers: http://paste.pocoo.org/show/445966/
<voidspace> daubers: it hasn't completed though
<voidspace> daubers: interesting that the ipv4 entry is in ipv6 format
<daubers> voidspace: That's the devices mac address
<daubers> voidspace: I take it your apple machine is called "bigmac"?
<voidspace> daubers: indeed
<voidspace> daubers: ooh
<daubers> voidspace: try "ping bigmac"
<voidspace> daubers: I ssh into bigmac.local
<voidspace> daubers: so....
<voidspace> daubers: royale.local already works
<daubers> :) Magic
<voidspace> daubers: :-)
<voidspace> daubers: thank you
<daubers> voidspace: No probs
<voidspace> daubers: although I'm going to have to kill avahi-browse
<daubers> voidspace: hit q
<voidspace> hah
<voidspace> SIGINT
 * daubers ponders adding avahi/zeroconf magic to his storage servers
<oimon> just found a bone in my chicken roll, wonder if it was placed there deliberately to make me think the chicken is real
<voidspace> I need to install a newer version of netatalk than available for natty
<oimon> thanks for the tweetmention popey :)
<voidspace> there is a ppa with it here
<popey> np :D
<voidspace> https://launchpad.net/~bradya/+archive/netatalk/+packages
<voidspace> how do I install from there?
<daubers> ewww, netatalk
 * daubers runs
<voidspace> daubers: hah
<daubers> voidspace: I suspect others can guide you through ppa stuff :)
<voidspace> daubers: only way to setup a timemachine volume on my server as far as I know
<voidspace> daubers: but thanks
<voidspace> also anyone want to help me setup LVM on my software raid array?
<popey> voidspace: http://tumbleweed.popey.com/
<voidspace> :-)
 * daubers wonders if he can bully his boss out of a couple of tickets to pycon :)
<voidspace> daubers: who do you work for?
<voidspace> daubers: see if you can bully them for sponsorship too...
<daubers> voidspace: Unlikely that
<daubers> voidspace: Only 8 of us in the company
<voidspace> :-)
<voidspace> popey: the HP Proliant Microserver needs a cable to fit anything in the optical bay drive - it seems to require a sata cable for the drive, but provides power via an IDE power socket
<voidspace> popey: is that right? so to fit an extra sata drive there I'd need a  sata cable without power plus an IDE to sata power converter
<andylockran> voidspace: that sounds like it makes sense
<voidspace> :-)
<voidspace> still not sure *exactly* which cables to get
<voidspace> although this one looks right: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Wired--Up-SATA-Power-Adapter-Cable/dp/B000ITL1PG/
 * AlanBell just ordered new broadband
<AlanBell> fibre to the cabinet, 34 meg down, 2 meg up
<andylockran> Â£pcm ?
<AlanBell> Â£16.49
<voidspace> nice
<davmor2> voidspace: you could just go for an esata card with an internal port instead :)
<voidspace> davmor2: there's an external esata port
<AlanBell> should help get the oggcamp videos up to youtube
<voidspace> davmor2: I could just run the cable back inside...
<davmor2> voidspace: try it out cheaper that messing with conversion cables it'll either be fine or it won't work then it's only cost you time :)
<voidspace> davmor2: the adaptor cable I just ordered cost me Â£0.87 including delivery...
<StevenR> AlanBell: who's your ISP?
<popey> ewwwwwww
<popey> the microserver has a sata port on the mobo
<popey> thats the one I use for connecting a drive in the optical bay
<AlanBell> when I first got ADSL I went for a solid business sounding name that I could put through on expenses, they were called IC24
<voidspace> popey: yeah, that's the one I'll use
<AlanBell> a week later they rebranded to "madasafish - the friendly ISP"
<StevenR> lol
<voidspace> popey: I was kidding about using the external esata for the internal bay - that would be dumb...
<davmor2> popey: I'm assuming there is more than one sata port on the mb I'm offering advice on the fact that sound like voidspace has filled them all
 * StevenR has FTTC too (34-36 meg down, 1.6 meg up)
<popey> I also have an esata card in one because the esata port on the microserver doesn't support port multipliers
<popey> davmor2: there isnt
<AlanBell> but now they seem to have merged with plusnet and my new account will be a plusnet account
<popey> there is exactly one sata port on the mobo
<voidspace> davmor2: nah, I filled the four standard drive bays - but the optical bay is still free
<oimon> you could replace the optical bay with a card reader, and boot the OS from SD card :D
<StevenR> AlanBell: good honest broadband from Yorkshire :)
<voidspace> oimon: there's also an internal USB port so you can already do that if you want...
<oimon> voidspace: oh, sweet
<voidspace> oimon: some people do boot from flash drives...
<oimon> voidspace: yes, cheap, low power and very replaceable
<popey> yeah, the internal usb port is an interesting addition
<voidspace> that thing has ports out the wazzoo
<popey> hahah
<popey> shame the esata doesnt do PM
<oimon> the dell poweredge servers have one, and they used to sell servers with free esxi preinstalled on the usb stick
<StevenR> oimon: some have an SD reader instead now :)
<popey> only issue I have with my microserver is it spends a _lot_ of time in IO wait
 * StevenR is considering a 4-bay SATA DAS thingy. 
<popey> StevenR: I have an Edge10 one of them
<popey> works really nicely
<hamitron> DAS?
<popey> box with disks in :D
<StevenR> popey: yeah, http://www.maplin.co.uk/4-bay-terabox-esata-hdd-raid-enclosure-224358 is what I'm looking at (looks like the edge10, comes with an esata card, etc)
<StevenR> hamitron: Direct Attach Storage
<popey> thats the exact one I have :D
<StevenR> popey: :D
<hamitron> it certainly seems the quantity of data we have these days, is greater than the capacity of the average hdd
 * StevenR has *only* 168GB left!
<StevenR> (on the 1.4TB array I have for /home)
 * hamitron shamefully checks space free on "C:\"
<hamitron> ;)
 * StevenR checks to see if hamitron weighs more or less than a duck ;)
<hamitron> but I've decided I won't be putting loads of money into more storage
<hamitron> just for my data hoarding tendencies
<hamitron> gonna actually sort stuff
<hamitron> :D
<StevenR> I've got a couple of external disks that I need to clean up
<popey> i have retired most of my external disks
<StevenR> popey: A microserver isn't really that "micro" :)
<popey> it is when you compare it to a "server"
<StevenR> I suppose that's true
<hamitron> the worst thing about a micro server....
<popey> is you want one?
<popey> enter the competition in the podcast and you might win one :D
<hamitron> you get it to reduce clutter, and you end up running that AND the old server
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> at least that is how things work out for me
<hamitron> brb, got to move some sacks of plaster before 2:30
<oimon> i wonder at what point it becomes more cost effective to buy a 500gb disk rather than using 4 80gb disks
<popey> I'd say it's cost effective to buy big disks and stop worrying about it
<popey> There's a great note from SAP about swap space, says something like "make swap space super huge because the cost of a consultant to diagnose memory issues is almost always higher than the cost of an extra disk"
<directhex> swap is useless.
<voidspace> on the other hand its cheaper to buy enough memory
<popey> heh, not on these servers :D
<directhex> the kernel never prioritizes things enough, so if you're touching swap, your system is too far gone to log in & fix it
<popey> they have 128GB RAM and ~32GB swap
<voidspace> if you have a memory leak then swap becomes a real nuisance
<directhex> voidspace, exactly
<popey> thats not my experience on large systems.
<voidspace> but horses for courses
<popey> yes, when it swaps a lot you end up in swap death
<popey> but it is possible to swap a bit and not die
<oimon> i used to have machines that permanently lived in swap because people ran too many processes on it
<oimon> tightwad company that wouldn't buy RAM
<popey> Mem:  132103176k total, 65934456k used, 66168720k free,   376112k buffers
<popey> Swap: 33554424k total,        0k used, 33554424k free, 50951428k cached
<popey> :D
<oimon> popey: ever fancied getting a linux job? or the SAP money too good?
<popey> that is a linux box :D
<popey> ergo I am kinda doing a linux job :D
<oimon> a real linux job :P
<popey> hah, meow
<oimon> there's no claws in that paw
<oimon> just playing :D
<MooDoo> saucer of milk, table 1 :)
<oimon> not sure i'd survive working in a non-linux world now
<oimon> would make my brain explode
<popey> I'm probably not skilled in linuxy stuff enough to do a linux job
<popey> I do spend all day doing linuxy stuff tho
<popey> debugging other peoples rubbish shell scripts for example :D
<directhex> oimon, i'd need a BIG suitcase of money to not work in linux
<oimon> money to pay for the medical bills though
<oimon> i get a certain knot in my stomach when windows does its thing
<directhex> but tbh i'm not skilled enough on windows to be a windows sysadmin
<popey> we have only one app on windows here
<popey> and thats because the vendor only ships it on windows
<popey> it's a silverlight / .net app â¹
<oimon> sometimes you get pushed into it. i had to perform winadmin for a year in a bank when the contractor left. i was the solaris admin at the same time
<popey> vast majority of stuff is on RHEL
 * StevenR supports both windows and linux (centos/ubuntu) stuff at work. Spend much more time making windows do it's thing
<oimon> i wish i was a better programmer, those guys have a better life than sysadmins
<oimon> even though i'm a manager nowadays, i still consider myself an SA
<davmor2> oimon: but you have more fun honest
<oimon> hmmm.. i just had to perform a powerdown/powerup at the weekend :(
<oimon> rewarding when you fix problems , but rather have the easier life tbh
<oimon> when you SAN goes down and all your running VMs lose their disk, requiring fsck on every one, you want to have a little cry
<Stockholm_Angel> hej
<oimon> programmers can come in at 11am too ..probably not wife friendly though, which is why they all seem to be single ;)
<Stockholm_Angel> Are flaggs at half mast?
<Stockholm_Angel> sorry
<Stockholm_Angel> wrong channel
<oimon> tried out nautilus elementary the other day, seems like an improvement over regular nautilus
<popey> have you seen nautilus in 11.10 ?
<davmor2> popey: yes
<gord> they took away all my precious buttons :(
<directhex> buttons are for nerds
<gord> i'm a nerd!
<popey> http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-q3FcVguT_-8/Tg3-9iTxpaI/AAAAAAAABDo/6JU75o4rFdY/s1600/2.png
<StevenR> gord: gumdrop buttons?
<oimon> time to get a 11.10 testing box
<directhex> using keyboard shortcuts is much more user-friendly
<gord> if i wanted to use keyboard shortcuts in my file manager i'd use a terminal :P
<davmor2> gord: I hope the devs fix the zietgiest thing soon though most annoying :)
<gord> Zeitgeist ting?
<davmor2> gord: just use mc you know you prefer it ;)
<TheOpenSourcerer> popey: That's horrible! Have you worked out how to change the main panel view or the sidebar view? How do you navigate "back" and "forward"
<davmor2> gord: I get a bug report popup everytime I start up oneiric
<oimon> i like the idea of zeitgeist, i've just never seen it working the way they say it should
<gord> davmor2, ah right apport, yeah i tell that thing to shut up
<gord>  TheOpenSourcerer back/forward are on the top right
<gord> TheOpenSourcerer, you can choose between the bookmark thingy view or a treeview
<TheOpenSourcerer> choose where?
<gord> TheOpenSourcerer, in the menu i tink
<gord> think
<gord> h key has gone squishy =\
<TheOpenSourcerer> Ah yes - forgot about the menus - not moved to unity. Still on 10:10
<oimon> does oneiric nautilus have an option for the zoom button?
<oimon> zoom = resize icons :P
<davmor2> TheOpenSourcerer: plus to go back an forward you use the breadcrumb trail
<gord> oimon, pretty much all the options in the previous menus are still there
<TheOpenSourcerer> davmor2: That isn't really a breadcrumb is it? It just shows your linear position in the tree. Not if I have jumped between non-sequential directories... That;s what the back and forward buttons do. But I missed them on the far right.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Having to use the menus seems daft... Means I have to drag the mouse to the top of the screen, click on the right menu, click on the option, change something then go back.
<gord> well the menus are for one time things
<gord> not something you are going to reach for often
<TheOpenSourcerer> What like the missing buttons?
<gord> what were the missing buttons? its been a while
<TheOpenSourcerer> I frequently change views in nautilus.
<ali1234> me toooooooo
<oimon> icon view/list view
<gord> ah, then you'll want to file a bug with gnome maybe, but well, you'll be fighting design
<TheOpenSourcerer> oh - design seems to have forgotten function.
<ali1234> it should really be in the right click menu though
<ali1234> but i expect that will be removed soon too
<oimon> it's prob under view->
<ali1234> you mean int he menu that's been hidden away, and will soon be removed also?
<gord> the menu won't be removed
<gord> why would you say that?
<ali1234> because i read it on sabdfl blog
<davmor2> TheOpenSourcerer: no they haven't this is the dummy's guide to computing they are going from, advanced users only need to know how to open emacs right?
<TheOpenSourcerer> vi FTW!
<TheOpenSourcerer> wq!
<oimon> ZZ
<davmor2> TheOpenSourcerer has left the room
<oimon> sadbfl has started writing realllly long blog posts
<gord> huh, tere is a vim irc client. of course
<directhex> gord, pfft, emacs is a  much better irc client than vim
<davmor2> yay! I've start another vim vs emacs flame war :D
<oimon> not long till godwins law is invoked
<voidspace> I'd rather crawl over broken glass than use either :-)
<voidspace> you know who else used vim and emacs - hitler!
<oimon> nobody uses both...
<voidspace> nobody should use either
<voidspace> but nobody isn't around to answer for himself
<voidspace> so we shouldn't talk about him behind his back
<stuphi> vi rules!
<oimon> rules! [new file]
<stuphi> :-)
<oimon> why did adobe call their latest version of adobe reader version X?
<directhex> oimon, to sound cool.
<directhex> see also: megaman x, mac os x
<jpds> Xorg.
<oimon> shame it's just a bloated pdf reader
<oimon> Xcrement
<ali1234> damn i can't find the comment
<ali1234> it basically said "we know global menu sucks but it's ok because we're trying to kill the menu entirely anyway"
<ali1234> oh here we go: "Many modern applications are doing without a menu altogether, so in our  view, this is a step towards the future, and it will encourage  application developers to think about their interfaces and make them  more usable by design rather than depending on the crutch of a menu."
<ali1234> in otherwords, it's ok that global menu sucks, because we don't want developers to use menus at all
<MooDoo> hi all, how was the books and butties trip yesterday?
<gord> thats not what that says at all
<ali1234> sadly i cannot find a direct citation, just this random post on ayatana mailing list: https://lists.launchpad.net/ayatana/msg04830.html
<ali1234> "Many modern applications are doing without a menu altogether, so in our  view, this is a step towards the future" -> in the future, applications won't have menus
<hamitron> simple and less functionality to confuse the dumb user
<ali1234> so the justification for global menu is not that it is better than what we had before, it's that, in the future, applications won't have menus at all
<hamitron> ;)
<hamitron> no more "what does this button do?"
<hamitron> :-o
<gord> no, you just keep injecting your own words and spin on that
<ali1234> fine, what do *you* think it means?
<gord> i think it pretty much speaks for itself
<ali1234> me too actually
<ali1234> odd that
<gord> mark thinks that good design is better than putting lots of options in menus
<gord> good design that solves the issue that the option in a menu is preferential to just dumping an option in a menu, but thats a lot of good design needed so menus are not going away any time soon
<hamitron> I was thinking last night, why do we continue to use square windows/desktops?
<ali1234> cos our monitors are square, lol
<hamitron> a round monitor would be cool
<hamitron> ;/
<ali1234> you can't tile circles
<ali1234> = bad use of space
<hamitron> I think I'd maybe had too much booze or something
<TheOpenSourcerer> hexagons are cool.
<hamitron> but it made sense at the time
<ali1234> yes, yes they are
<hamitron> I like circles!
<voidspace> so I've created a raid 5 array using mdadm and it seems to be working fine
<hamitron> my visions was a round screen, with a square app that morphed into it
<hamitron> with rounded off display with buttons
<voidspace> but "fdisk -l" reports that the raid array, and the underlying disks, don't have valid partition tables
<voidspace> is that likely to cause any problems?
<popey> voidspace: pastebin?
<ali1234> gord: so at best he's saying "i don't like menus, but i don't have a better idea, so i'm hiding the menus to force people to think of something better"
<voidspace> popey: http://paste.pocoo.org/show/446040/
<gord> ali1234, no, there you go again injecting your own words
<popey> voidspace: what does /proc/mdstat contain?
<hamitron> I get the feeling it is something a bit different, targeting someone other than the traditional thinking PC user
<ali1234> gord: so which part don't you agree with? that he doesn't like menus? or that he doesn't have a better idea? or that the justification for global menu is to force people to do something better?
<voidspace> popey: http://paste.pocoo.org/show/446043/
<popey> voidspace: looks right
<popey> i create partitions and then raid them, rather than raid the whole raw disk
<popey> but i guess it makes little difference
<popey> a few lost sectors for me :D
<voidspace> popey: cool - I'm going to partition it with fdisk now
<popey> what are you going to partition?
<voidspace> popey: partitioning all the disks and then making multiple arrays seems like more work
<voidspace> popey: /dev/md0
<popey> right
<popey> yeah, it is :D
<popey> i do it out of habit.
<hamitron> popey: your way is fast for RAID 0?
<popey> dunno
<hamitron> me neither ;)
<popey> heh
<hamitron> just sort of like the idea, so could have different OS setup differently
<hamitron> overcomplicate my setup so it will break.... giving me something to moan about ofc
<popey> ofc
<AlanBell> google streetview in 3d is rather awesome
<daubers> Has anyone written an ldap plugin for apt?
 * daubers is bored of changing passwords on half a dozen machines when new password time comes, and is considering a full ldap auth setup
<popey> we use ldap for linux auth here
<oimon> here too
<daubers> I'd like to be able to use it like OD in osx
<popey> works well, until one of the boxes gets your pam tally wedged and you cant ssh in
<daubers> manage printers and whatnot too
<daubers> does it not just default down to local?
<oimon> printers manage themselves when you have a cups server
<daubers> not if you add a new printer, then you need to go to each machine and make it work with that one or the wife complains....
<oimon> linux clients?
<daubers> oimon: mostly
<oimon> cups server manages the printers, cups client on the workstation looks at cups server. no adding printers on workstations required
<oimon> set the printers on the cups server as shared, and the cups client should be by default set to browse for printers on the network
<gord> AlanBell, you can get google streetview in 3d?
<AlanBell> red blue glasses
<AlanBell> right click a streetview image and choose 3d view
<gord> ah
<gord> woo looking at myself, in google street view, in 3d!
<gord> ... easily amused am i
<wintellect> gord: link?
<gord> wintellect, http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=nantwitch+road+crewe&hl=en&ll=53.089095,-2.437511&spn=0.003041,0.007988&sll=53.800651,-4.064941&sspn=24.651744,65.43457&t=h&z=18&layer=c&cbll=53.08907,-2.437662&panoid=vCnkT-EecrTwkWjiR-XFHw&cbp=12,142.94,,0,24.06
<popey> how did you find yourself on that?
<popey> or did you see the car go past?
<AlanBell> are there any open source licences that require you to publish the source code for changes if you do not distribute or make public the software (i.e. totally internal use, not tripping the AGPL clause)
<wintellect> gord: as popey said - how did you find yourself?
<gord> saw the car go past :) then months later as we got street view i cheked
<gord> checked*
<andyc> Hi all
<popey> lo
<andyc> Just wondering if anyone knows of a way to delay pulseaudio output by a set amount of time?
<andyc> It probably sounds like a stupid idea
<popey> jack can probably do that
<andyc> But I have a sky subscription to watch the cricket, and I want the commentary to be TMS instead of the default commentary
<andyc> But TMS is ever so slightly faster than the sky stream
<andyc> Hmm I'll look into Jack
<popey> ahhh, cunning
<gord> is the commentary stream playable with mplayer or vlc?
<gord> because you can delay those in application
<andyc> It's via bbc iplayer - I believe it's realplayer
<andyc> Or used to be last time I had trouble with it
<popey> i suspect its flash
<popey> all bbc streams switched to rtmp iirc
<andyc> OK
<andyc> Actually I might be able to find an mms link for radio5
<DJones> I suspect the sound & video would go out of sync fairly regularly though, all it would take is a change in the delay in the picture or sound and it would throw things out regardless
<popey> i like the added 30 min delay of your comment DJones
<DJones> :), time delay, it went via china though
<BigRedS> haha
<DJones> Its like my father in laws driving, lets go from A to B (but we'll go via C, D & E just because he likes the road better)
<BigRedS> that's the best way to drive
<BigRedS> assuming there's time...
<DJones> He does it even whenever there isn't time
<BigRedS> oh
<BigRedS> that's less ideal
<DJones> Yup
<livingdaylight> I'd like to ask what the consensus opinion is here on xbox vs wii as we aer looking to buy one or another console. Are they both good and bad or is there a clear overall winner, if one had to get only one of them. Yes, it would be nice to get every video console out there, but that clearly isnto possible for us. Thanks!
<AlanBell> small kids like the wii
<AlanBell> it has more cartoonish games and the controller works quite well
<AlanBell> and you can get an infrared pen and make a wiimote whiteboard
<AlanBell> or do other messing about by pairing the controller over bluetooth
 * BigRedS quite likes the wii...
<BigRedS> it's more 'fun', but less serious-gamey
<daubers> lo
<dutchie> hi daubers
<jmartin> hi
<brobostigon> evening jmartin
<AlanBell> !ping
<lubotu3> Here I am, brain the size of a planet and they ask me to respond to factoid requests. Call that job satisfaction? Because I don't.
<brobostigon> :)
<brobostigon> marvin the paranoid android, hhgttg douglas adams,
<AlanBell> well I was going to get round to rebooting that machine anyway
<brobostigon> lol
<brobostigon> :)
<brobostigon> hmm
<ali1234> popey: that free wifi thing is strange to me
<ali1234> all the settings for windows are the defaults
<ali1234> they could have listed almost identical steps for mac, but they didn't
<ali1234> the most likely explanation for this is simply that windows users are more likely to have a work laptop that's been screwed over by the local NT policy setting weird none-default settings for everything
<ali1234> like, who has dhcp off by default on new connections?
<AlanBell> there is an assumption that non windows users know what they are doing
<ali1234> only insane NT admins
<ali1234> no, there is more of an assumption that mac users won't have touched any of the defaults
<AlanBell> when I was ordering new broadband today I was asked if I needed new virus software, told them I don't have windows and he said "oh, you will be fine then"
<ali1234> i would guess the guide started off with almost identical steps for both
<ali1234> and then windows users with work laptops complained, so they added stuff to it
<gord> hehe, new virus software. no thanks!
<davmor2> AlanBell: I went into currys digital to get my new laptop they tried selling me and extended warranty, I sadi no 8 times to that, so they changed tack, you'll want this AV and case for Â£50 though, nope as soon as I get it home I'm installing Ubuntu Linux, right but you'll want this to protect windows, I said no thanks
<gord> oh wow currys still exists?
<gord> i replaced them with amazon years back
<directhex> gord: dixons became currys.digital, to replace their terrible reputation
<ali1234> i didn't know currys and dixons had independent reputations
<davmor2> gord: I only noticed cause the laptop was in the window as we walked passed and it matched the spec of the one from amazon and was Â£10 cheaper :)
<Daviey> davmor2: wait, what.. you bought electrical equipment in person?
<Daviey> @lart davmor2
<davmor2> Daviey: yeap
<davmor2> Daviey: Â£10 cheaper was the reason for it :)
<Daviey> fair enough
<livingdaylight> thanks for getting back to me on the games question. I was in 'Game' shop on the highstreet, yesterday and one thing I noticed was that most games were cross console. they had versions for xbox, wii and ps3 of the same game, as mario brothers for e.g. made me wonder whether they looked and played the same?
<oracology> livingdaylight: apart from the controls being different, the storyline and objectives would be the same of course, but the graphics do differ.
<popey> bug 816035 is interesting
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 816035 in Ubuntu "Memory upgrade makes Ubuntu painfully slow" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/816035
<livingdaylight> oracology: cheers, siggnificantly, I wonder? or just minor, in which case the cheaper console would seem the right solution. I need to go somewhere where I can see them all side by side and compare and contrast them
<Daviey> popey: I can't see that being fixed.
<popey> odd isnt it?
<popey> chipset problem perhaps?
<Daviey> Yeah.. i've noticed my boot on oneiric with mbp is much slower than natty.
 * popey /57
<popey> bah
<diplo> Evening all
<brobostigon> evening diplo
<HazRPG> evening all
<brobostigon> good evening HazRPG :)
<HazRPG> brobostigon: good evening to you to :)
<HazRPG> urgh, why is the u1ms always so slow to transfer newly purchases songs to one's account
<HazRPG> s/purchases/purchased/*
<AlanBell> http://ubuntu-uk.org/free-cds/
<HazRPG> AlanBell: woot
<HazRPG> \o/
<HazRPG> AlanBell: what versions you currently rocking on CD?
<AlanBell> 11.04
<AlanBell> yes, just updating the image
<HazRPG> ah fair enough
<HazRPG> here's an interesting question, has anyone managed to get use to 11.04 yet?
<HazRPG> I'm still fearful the install it (I don't know why)
<AlanBell> I picked up the bundle image and only just realised the bundle is 10.10 still http://shop.canonical.com/index.php?cPath=17
<brobostigon> HazRPG: with gnome3+gnom,e-shell, yes.
<HazRPG> brobostigon: is that combo working out well since release?
<brobostigon> HazRPG: yes, mostly.
<HazRPG> brobostigon: cos I recall you using it during the alpha/beta stages of both those
<brobostigon> HazRPG: quite, and various hurdles.
<popey> HazRPG: I use 11.04 daily
<HazRPG> brobostigon: bet your looking forward to 11.10 then, since gnome3 shell should be in there :)
<popey> gnome 3 already is in 11.10
<brobostigon> HazRPG: i have a testing image on live usb,
<HazRPG> popey: that's what I meant ^_^
<HazRPG> I may have to try out 11.10
<brobostigon> HazRPG: the best i have tried upto now, i would say is debian sid + aaptpinned with debian experimental, it breaks, but it is upto date, and is as stable and as pure, and i could ask for.
<popey> gord: is 11.10 Unity 3D broken at the moment?
<popey> I keep getting dumped into a 2D session
<ali1234> surely it's more likely that the graphics driver is broken?
<HazRPG> brobostigon: what's aaptpinned?
<popey> possibly
<ali1234> HazRPG: apt pinning is when you lock packages to specific versions
<popey> ah yes
<brobostigon> HazRPG: it is using several repos. and having balaence in apt. where and how it chooses package versions.
<HazRPG> ah, that makes sense
<HazRPG> well I just recently donated a core 2 duo machine, so I might turn that into a 11.04/11.10 test bed
<popey> getting segfaults in unity_support_test
<brobostigon> HazRPG: ie, i dont always want it to choose packages from experimental, the most unstable, how it is clever, if it needs pcackges from experimental to complete it does so.
<HazRPG> s/recently/recently got/*
<HazRPG> ali1234, brobostigon: I might have to try out apt pinning...
<brobostigon> ie,i have told apt, to pull gnome-shell from experimental, and follow gnome-shell from experimental.
<brobostigon> HazRPG: :)
<HazRPG> since at the moment, I'm starting to mass add ppa's just to keep up-to-date...
<brobostigon> and update from experimental.
<brobostigon> HazRPG: you could use apt-pinning, and tell apt. where and to what degreee it chooses new packaged from those ppa's.
<HazRPG> I think at some point I need to evaluate what I want in a development system...
<HazRPG> since I like certain applications to always be always up-to-date (since new features, bug fixes, etc are always good!), but at the same time I don't want certain things to just randomly break
<brobostigon> i choose unstable/sid as i figured, most of the debian based development version, will somehow be based on it.
<brobostigon> and distro's based on debian.
<HazRPG> true
<HazRPG> I really wish I knew where ubuntu is trying to go at the moment, since I chose ubuntu years ago because it fit my style at the time
<HazRPG> ali1234: hmm, what version are you currently rolling with anyways? Because iirc you mentioned you preferred gnome2's way of working too...
<StevenR> popey: was it you with the edge10 DAS?
<AlanBell> http://ubuntu-uk.org/free-cds/ made a few updates, look OK now?
<popey> StevenR: yes
<HazRPG> AlanBell: looks good :)
<StevenR> popey: what size drives do you use? Does the supplied esata card work ok with ubuntu?
<HazRPG> AlanBell: although from a designer perspective, it would be nicer to have all 3 on the same line (cropped to fit on one line), but aside from that it looks really good :)
<popey> StevenR: desktop size drives
<popey> yes
<StevenR> popey: ok.. what capacity drives do you use :)
<popey> :D
<popey> currently 200GB but have had 4x2TB in it
<AlanBell> HazRPG: I will make them a bit smaller
<ali1234> HazRPG: i use 11.04 and unity
<StevenR> popey: did it see all of the 2TB drives? (maplin claim it can't... did you buy the terabox/maplin version?)
<HazRPG> ali1234: How's that working out for ya?
<ali1234> it's pretty horrible
<popey> StevenR: I have an edge10 DAS, not from maplin, and it works fine with the supplied eSATA card
<popey> no issues at all
<StevenR> ok. (The maplin one isn't edge10 :S)
<popey> it looks identical
<popey> same case
<StevenR> the edge10 one seems to have gone EOL
<StevenR> yeah, *looks* identical, but with slightly different specs
<HazRPG> AlanBell: Just had a fiddle with chrome inspect, and seems 245 (roughly) works well for putting all three on the same line
<AlanBell> try that
<AlanBell> I think that is exactly half the native size
<HazRPG> AlanBell: the number I came up with was 245, 247 (maximum, cos any more and it rolls to the next line)
<AlanBell> depending on screen/window size and whether you have unity
<HazRPG> AlanBell: but either way, looks better now that its on one line ^_^
<AlanBell> 225 is half of the 450 so should rescale better
<HazRPG> true :)
<AlanBell> and yes I could save bandwidth/peformance by a factor of 4 by rescaling in gimp, but I am hotlinking to the ubuntu store and I don't care
<HazRPG> hehe
<HazRPG> I think I prefer the server artwork the most :)
<HazRPG> but that's mainly because I dislike len-flare based images
<HazRPG> (which the others have)
<HazRPG> AlanBell: I just noticed, the podcast logo that was folded in the top-right of the website wasn't put back in since the beta of the site... any reason why?
<StevenR> popey: thanks for the info :)
<popey> np
<HazRPG> ooo, I have noticed that the homepage image changes each time you reload, that's pretty swish :)
<popey> StevenR: any other info you need lemme know
<popey> StevenR: whats the product number on maplin?
<StevenR> popey: 	
<StevenR> CFI-B4043ER
<StevenR> bah.
<popey> that doesnt look like a maplin code
<AlanBell> HazRPG: good point, it was removed because there was no active podcast season and they were rebranding, but they did that, so maybe popey would like some kind of promenent podcast link-love againg
<popey> AlanBell: there is a banner available
<StevenR> popey: the maplin code is A84HW
<StevenR> (sorry, thought you meant manuf code)
<popey> ta
<HazRPG> AlanBell: Ah, yeah I remember that, I just wondered why it wasn't added back when season 4 started ^_^
<AlanBell> Daviey: you coming to oggcamp?
 * AlanBell fails to find the uupc banner
<Daviey> AlanBell: should be!
<AlanBell> can you bring the tablecloth?
<Daviey> it does clash with a birthday, making it a little tricky.
<Daviey> AlanBell: ack
<HazRPG> AlanBell: your not the only one ^_^
<AlanBell> syn
<popey> AlanBell: see tonys blog?
<popey> used to be at the top of that
<brobostigon> HazRPG: reminds me of something i need to ask, you offered to give me a lift down to farnham for oggcamp, will you be able to give a list back to banbury?
<brobostigon> lift*
<HazRPG> brobostigon: Hmm, depends on the state of my car
<AlanBell> popey: ok, that is just the logo, but an oggcamp banner, also worth adding
<brobostigon> HazRPG: state ?
<HazRPG> brobostigon: going to take it in for a service tomorrow, since it the engine light just recently popped up... and I almost got stuck in on the A69
<brobostigon> HazRPG: ah, i see, fingers crossed in that case.
<HazRPG> brobostigon: but yeah, if all works out okay with the car... then sure thing ^_^
<HazRPG> why banbury?
<brobostigon> HazRPG: thank you. :)
<brobostigon> HazRPG: that happens to be where i live.
<HazRPG> brobostigon: ah, heh that would make sense... so guessing that's where I'm picking you up from too?
<HazRPG> brobostigon: how many days of oggcamp you doing?
<brobostigon> HazRPG: yes, :)
<brobostigon> HazRPG: thank you. :)
<HazRPG> brobostigon: np, :)
<HazRPG> just wondered, cos oggcamp is 2 days isn't it?
<HazRPG> haven't decided if I should do both or not yet
<brobostigon> HazRPG: AlanBell has offered garden camping and facilities, which i thank him for.  so we can do either which fits best for you.
<HazRPG> brobostigon: oh, cool!
<HazRPG> \o/ camping!
<brobostigon> HazRPG: yes. :)
 * HazRPG pokes AlanBell for more info.
<AlanBell> um, yeah
<AlanBell> my garden
<AlanBell> complete with chickens
<brobostigon> food, :)
<AlanBell> walking distance to the Maltings, BBQ and suchlike
<mikeatvillage> fresh eggs for breakfast?
<brobostigon> jerk chicken
<AlanBell> not sure if there will be eggs tbh
<AlanBell> I have one ropey old hen who would be a bit tough to eat and isn't laying
<AlanBell> and on wednesday I am getting probably 4 new chicks
<mikeatvillage> poultry market?
<AlanBell> they won't lay for another month or so probably
<HazRPG> AlanBell: Ah right cool.
<brobostigon> ah, i see.
<AlanBell> might just about be starting to lay by oggcamp
<HazRPG> AlanBell: Room for a +1?
<AlanBell> sure, I have plenty of room for more tents
<HazRPG> woot \o/
<HazRPG> AlanBell: Much thanks. :)
<AlanBell> the chicks are coming from birdworld, they have a kind of petting zoo/farm thing
<HazRPG> AlanBell: The eggs will be small when they first start laying though, won't they?
<AlanBell> a bit small, yes
<AlanBell> might get a bantam too
<HazRPG> AlanBell: I know someone who recently bought some chicks/chicken. And so far they've had a couple of dozen eggs, but majority of them are small.
 * brobostigon cant do eggs due to his allergies, so thus has no interest.
<HazRPG> brobostigon: ouch :( *hugs*
<brobostigon> HazRPG: :( *hugs*
<mikeatvillage> sorry to hear that brobostigon
<HazRPG> brobostigon: if it helps, I don't do bacon... so english breakfast is always a bit plain for me ^_^
<brobostigon> mikeatvillage: *hugs*
<brobostigon> HazRPG: maybe, yes, quite, although a good sausage, does replace abit.
<HazRPG> AlanBell: aww, bantams are cute
<mikeatvillage> my chickens seem to have stopped laying... or they've decided to lay in the haybarn instead of the henhouse!
<HazRPG> brobostigon: check sausages are my fav :)
<HazRPG> chicken*
<HazRPG> ironically, very hard to find in these parts though :(
<brobostigon> HazRPG: yes. i have tried, interesting certainly. maybe we should be planning breakfast with AlanBell ?
<HazRPG> brobostigon: maybe!
<HazRPG> I should really put the details of oggcamp into my phone o.o
<HazRPG> I keep forgetting when it is
<dutchie> i should really unbook my oggcamp ticket
<dutchie> :(
<brobostigon> HazRPG: once you know if it will be more than a day, so i can plan overnight stuff, and we can confuirm with AlanBell, give me a shout.
<HazRPG> noticed that the site still lets you register for tickets still, but the remaining bit shows nothing - so technically its sold out?
<AlanBell> it is sold out, yes
<HazRPG> ah
<AlanBell> but really don't worry
<HazRPG> oh well, I told my friends if they wanted to go they had to register fast
<mikeatvillage> Tesco do chicken sausages. Anyway, I only popped in here for a quick look. Enjoy your camping, hope the weather stays fine for you.
<AlanBell> thanks mikeatvillage
<mikeatvillage> bye
<HazRPG> mikeatvillage: Yeah, it's the only place that sells them here. And its only found in one column, and every time I go they're either sold out, or there's only 1 or 2 packs left. Always seems to be plenty of beef ones, but again only on one column.
<HazRPG> brobostigon: agreed
<HazRPG> brobostigon: I think I might as well do more than one day, it's a long trip down for me.
<brobostigon> HazRPG: very true, for you, yes. ok, i will plan for over night stay then.
<HazRPG> wow, just checked, 5hrs drive down!
<brobostigon> ouch.
<HazRPG> 5hrs 30mins in fact!
<brobostigon> wow.
<brobostigon> HazRPG: also calculate how i csn help with petrol money.
<HazRPG> brobostigon: will do :)
<brobostigon> HazRPG: :)
<AlanBell> bother, broke my /etc/groups file and can't sudo
<AlanBell> bother, or shut down cleanly
<AlanBell> bah
<brobostigon> :(
<dutchie> AlanBell: vigrp
<mgdm> dutchie: only useful if he can sudo
<dutchie> bit late now, but for the future :)
<dutchie> mgdm: aye
<mgdm> but yes, I do recommend it
<mgdm> and indeed visudo :)
<dutchie> and vipw, for the full(?) set
<mgdm> those are the 3 I'm aware of, at least
<HazRPG> brobostigon: think it works out at about Â£10-12 each way from yours
<brobostigon> HazRPG: ok, sounds good to me, :)
<HazRPG> brobostigon: so roughly Â£20 both ways
<HazRPG> which isn't too bad really
<HazRPG> brobostigon: trying to work out when I should leave from mine
<brobostigon> HazRPG: i agree, thank you.
<HazRPG> brobostigon: since from mine to yours is about 4hrs, and then a further 1hr 30min from yours to oggcamp
<brobostigon> HazRPG: yes, that is what i roughly worked out, from mine to there, if i drove it.
<HazRPG> brobostigon: I've just been basing my prices using this: http://www.fuel-economy.co.uk/calc.shtml :)
<HazRPG> and using the average mpg of my car
<brobostigon> ok.
<Andres-kain> good night.
<HazRPG> Andres-kain: nite
<Andres-kain> yeah.. 2-3hrs past my normal bedtime: going wild!
 * Andres-kain learning?
 * Andres-kain nods
<Andres-kain> !pastebin
<lubotu3> For posting multi-line texts into the channel, please use http://paste.ubuntu.com | To post !screenshots use http://imagebin.org/?page=add | !pastebinit to paste directly from command line | Make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the channel topic.
<voidspace> how do I install a package from a specific ppa?
 * voidspace goes to try google
<voidspace> ah, add-apt-repository
<voidspace> so what's the actual ppa url from this launchpad "page"?
<voidspace> https://launchpad.net/~bradya/+archive/netatalk/+packages
#ubuntu-uk 2011-07-26
<PythonPup> Howdy.  Are there any Oneiric users here?  There are two things I have not found a way to do in Oneiric.  1.  Move buttons on windows back to the right side.  2. Fix Nautilus to show location entry.   There used to be gconf setting for both of these, but gconf is gone, essentially.
<j0nr> morning
<PythonPup> Top of the morning to you.
<daubers> Morning
<hoover> good morning all
<dwatkins> hiya
 * daubers is off to London shortly :(
<gord> can't for the life of me figure out how to enable dhcp hostname thingies on this new router
<TheOpenSourcerer> man - why hadn't I heard of OSSEC before? It sounds great: http://www.ossec.net/main/
<PythonPup> I suppose you just have not been keeping in the right crowds.
<gord> that is neat
<diplo> TheOpenSourcerer, are you thinking of giving it a go ?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Almost certainly. I'm just reading a bit more before jumping in. Ideally I would like to have two servers able to report on the same agents...
<diplo> If you do have a go I'd be very interested to hear your thoughts, interested but not a lot of time at the mo :)
<popey> Morning all
<gord> the new router is a christmas tree of LED's =\ it has a bunch of blinking ones at the front, some green, some blue, some red. then on the side a giant blue one
<oimon> ubuntu startup disk creator in 10.04 doesn't work with oneiric iso :(
<oimon> unetbootin to the rescue
<gord> startup disk creator has always been hit and miss for me, depending more on the usb drive than anything else
<oimon> it'z bizarre
<oimon> noobs could get very confused with a program that only works 25% of th etime
<gord> patches welcome :)
<gord> honestly i think it lets you do too much, if it just said "you have to wipe the entire usb drive to put the ubuntu iso on the drive" then it would solve 99% of its problems
<oimon> my patch would be an error window that says "maybe use unetbootin if this didn't work"
<andylockran> hey guys
<andylockran> just for confirmation - probably shouldn't be using hardy any more, but on the server security updates will run until april 2013 ?
<popey> howdy howdy howdy
<popey> !hardy
<lubotu3> Ubuntu 8.04 LTS (Hardy Heron) was the eighth release of Ubuntu. Desktop support ended on May 12 2011. See !upgrade, !lts and !eol for more details.
<popey> !eol
<lubotu3> End-Of-Life is the time when security updates and support for an Ubuntu release stop, see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Releases for more information. Looking to upgrade from an EOL release? See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/EOLUpgrades
<andylockran> !lts | andylockran
<lubotu3> andylockran, please see my private message
<popey> yes, april 2013
<andylockran> ok, that's good - how does the update mechanism discern between a desktop and a server?
 * AlanBell wonders too
<AlanBell> if you have a server with openoffice.org installed on it for example
<andylockran> yeah, interesting.
<andylockran> I'd have thought apache is a definite to continue getting sec upgrades, and definitely a server tech
<andylockran> but interesting to find out which it is
<oimon> PythonPup: i have the buttons on the right in oneiric, the regular gconftool command works
<oimon> gconftool-2 --set "/apps/metacity/general/button_layout" --type string ":minimize,maximize,close"
<PythonPup> Oh, thank you oiman.  That's interesting.  I hgot it to work, but I changed a different place.  I did gconftool-2 --set /desktop/gnome/shell/windows/button_layout --type string ":minimize,maximize,close"
<PythonPup> hgot -> got
<PythonPup> I had to logot and log back in.  Maybe yours would have done it right away.  I'll test that.  Thank you for the note.
<popey> andylockran: I have asked this question before and never got a clear answer
<JohnRobert> does anyone know of a linux/oss alternative to flash media encoder and flash media server for streaming live video? (and I don't mean ustream etc..)
<AlanBell> red5
<JohnRobert> what should I use for the broadcasting/local encoding?
<JohnRobert> eg my pc at home ----> my server (red5) ---> viewer
<andylockran> popey: I might try and get a proper answer from someone inside Canonical - it's quite critical when we're running hardy at the moment..
<AlanBell> dunno really JohnRobert, openMeetings perhaps
<JohnRobert> interesting
<JohnRobert> thanks, I guess I can get started and figure it out :)
<PythonPup> ffmpeg for the encoder.  Lots of choices for streaming.  I used VLC for myself.
<JohnRobert> interesting
<JohnRobert> so ffmpeg & vlc can push out encoded streams too?
<JohnRobert> like over rstp or whatever it is
<andylockran> rtmpdump is also a useful tool
<PythonPup> I just use http and ftp.  I don't know about weird things like rtsp.
 * andylockran used it week before last to dump the online stream of the gf's graduation of the manchester uni website :)
<andylockran> she was chuffed.
<PythonPup> I do audio streaming constantly.  I have done just a little video streaming.
<JohnRobert> that's cool
<PythonPup> I understand apache can stream pretty well.  The issue is going to be how many people you are expecting to receive the stream and how much bandwidth.
<JohnRobert> well, I want a flowplayer thing on my website playing a live stream from a red5 server running on the same server and I want to stream video to it from my pc at home
<JohnRobert> bandwidth not an issue
<PythonPup> But, you hate your users.  I had not heard of flowplayer.  It is evidently some flash junk.  I never install flash.
<davmor2> morning all
<JohnRobert> hmm
<JohnRobert> I guess it's freedom hating yes
<PythonPup> evidently..
<JohnRobert> but I'm not sure how else to reliably stream video to users on a webpage
<JohnRobert> to the biggest audience
<JohnRobert> without people having to download plugins
<popey> PythonPup: you are in a very small minority
<popey> Where "very small" is 1%
<popey> andylockran: i vaguely recall it being something like "what's in the Ubuntu server seed is supported"
<PythonPup> If I needed to stream to a buch of people, I would first try VLC server.  I don't know how well it would do.  Then I would look at spinoffs of commercial products, like Darwin Streaming server or Helix.  (I have not used either of the later).
<PythonPup> In what way, popey?
<popey> "I never install flash."
<popey> http://www.adobe.com/products/player_census/flashplayer/
<JohnRobert> I guess some kind of html5 player could be the way forward
<JohnRobert> maybe I should investigate that
<popey> have you looked at the one from collabora?
<PythonPup> If so, I am proud.  But, a) I don't believe it is that small of a number. B) Flash is so atrocious that it is the only rational choice.    Most people just don't analyse Flash rationally.  For example, do you know that you agree not to properly backup your system, if you install Flash?
<PythonPup> They used to demand the right to enter your home and inspect your computers, but they did drop that requirement.
<PythonPup> There must be some nice solution based on html5 for JohnRobert
<JohnRobert> again though anyone not running IE9 or later etc.. won't be able to see it
<JohnRobert> etc
<JohnRobert> this is basically why people use flash
<JohnRobert> it's not out of choice
<popey> My point was not "flash is great"
<popey> I am just suggesting all the requirements are looked at first
<popey> JohnRobert: have you seen the video stream from debconf11?
<popey> thats html5 based I believe
<popey> maybe speak to them and ask what infrastructure they use?
<PythonPup> I am running Firefox 6.  Does that qualify as IE9 or later.  I'll admit that I generally don't care if Windows users can access stuff I put up.
<popey> I do.
<popey> Windows users of today are potential Ubuntu users of tomorrow.
<PythonPup> I'm sorry.
<JohnRobert> heh
<oimon> they should also be pitied rather than isolated :)
<popey> hah
<JohnRobert> it's not *just* IE that won't play html5 streams
<JohnRobert> :p
<popey> make all content available in a 320x120 window
<popey> "If you had Free Software, you'd be able to see this in HD!"
<gord> is IE not supporting webm?
<PythonPup> Flumotion from Fluendo may be an option.  I don't know if there is a free version.  It supports all platforms.
<popey> thats the one I meant when I said collabora
<PythonPup> OK, I did not recognize the name.
<PythonPup> I think IE is going to support webm in some future version, but not yet.
<JohnRobert> yeah that was a guess by me if it supports the vid stuff at all
<PythonPup> Google has a plugin at https://tools.google.com/dlpage/webmmf
<JohnRobert> I'm pretty sure chrome does as you can put youtube into html5 mode
<JohnRobert> and it plays on that
<PythonPup> Chrome definitely supports it.  I have seen it, but won't install Chrome.  Chrome has an embedded copy of Flash.
<oimon> has anyone tried changing the screensaver in oneiric? doesn't seem possible
<gord> oimon, yup, not possible. you done got gnome-3'ed!
<PythonPup> oimon  I changed the timeout value.  That was the only thing I could adjust.
 * oimon is going to stab someone
<oimon> the system settings are really irritating!
<PythonPup> Mostly, there are not enough of them.  From an interview, it seems to be on purpose.  Mark says options divide the community.
<oimon> it doesn't seem possbile to set the timeout to "off"
<gord> PythonPup, this is gnome3
<gord> this is not canonical made
<PythonPup> This option is gnome.  Other things are cononical.  For example, in Unity2d, I can't make Firefocx come up without being full screen.
<oimon> i don't like the "all settings" button to return to the main settings screen - i missed it the first 5 times i used it and quit the app and restarted it
<oimon> i remember when linux was inuitive
<PythonPup> Interesting.  debconf11 is giving everyone sim cards to talk to each other.  I wonder if they are running their own micro-cell.
<PythonPup> It looks like they plan to document their video streaming setup at   http://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/DebConf11/Videoteam
<czajkowski> aloha
<PythonPup> Have a good day
 * davmor2 throws his arms around czajkowski and says Morning :)
<gord> oimon, unfortunately, https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=647828
<lubotu3> Gnome bug 647828 in Other Preferences "screen: no option 'never'" [Normal,Resolved: notabug]
<gord> clever bot
<dwatkins> Another reason not to upgrade :(
<gord> dwatkins, desktop might distro-patch it :)
<dwatkins> The resolution of "NOTABUG" makes me doubt this.
<gord> dwatkins, thats gnome, gnome said not a bug
<Daviey> dwatkins: You could raise a Ubuntu bug and add that upstream task to it..
<gord> we say, "yeah it is" and distropatch
<dwatkins> ah ok, I don't know the relationship between you and gnome
<bigcalm> Anybody here working for a bank? I have a slight concern about caching dns servers
 * StevenR wonders how those two items are related
 * Daviey poisons bigcalm's cache.
<jpds> Daviey: Thought you said cake there for a second.
<andylockran> Daviey: did you see the post re: server versus desktop
<StevenR> did someone say cake?
<Daviey> andylockran: no?
<Daviey> jpds: good idea!
<andylockran> Daviey: how to differentiate between server versus desktop when talking about LTS updates
<andylockran> installed a ubuntu server hardy.. now between the desktop & server update windows
<andylockran> but not sure if 100% of the packages on my server install fall under the 'server updates' 5 year promise
<andylockran> so wondering how ubuntu discerns the difference
<Daviey> andylockran: well... $ apt-cache show apache2 | grep Supported
<Daviey> Supported: 18m
<andylockran> Daviey: :)
<Daviey> but in truth, if there is an issue in a non-core package it can still be resolved.
<andylockran> perfect - cheers Daviey
<Daviey> $ apt-cache show apache2 | grep Supported
<Daviey> Supported: 5y
<Daviey> ^^ Lucid
<andylockran> Daviey: is there a way to run that query for all packages on the system?
<bigcalm> I'm wondering if banks and large companies are likely to cache dns
<Daviey> andylockran: dpkg --get-selections, awk, | etc... but i'd be tempted to use the python apt bindings :)
<andylockran> Daviey: ta
<jpds> bigcalm: I guess it entirely depends on their IT team.
<bigcalm> Indeed
<bigcalm> I'll just have to continue tailing the access logs on hosts A and B. Once A stops updating I know that everybody now looks at B
<bigcalm> http://www.whatsmydns.net says that the change has been made globally
<oimon> gord: i am aghast at the sheer arrogance of the gnome commenters on that bug
<andylockran> Daviey: ta
<StevenR> bigcalm: how large is the TTL on the record?
<bigcalm> StevenR: It's an hour. But won't caching dns servers ignore that?
<bigcalm> I don't have direct control over the dns server sadly
<StevenR> bigcalm: why would they?
<bigcalm> Save in transactions and therefore bandwidth
<StevenR> they shouldn't.
<StevenR> if the TTL at the source is an hour, caching servers should honour that.
<bigcalm> *should* :)
<StevenR> otherwise, they're broken.
<hoover> hi biggie
<bigcalm> I have no idea if they will or not
<bigcalm> Hey hoovie :)
<bigcalm> Browsers caching is another problem
<StevenR> bigcalm: I've not noticed browsers do much DNS caching tbh.
 * bigcalm shakes his fist at VirginMedia
<bigcalm> Still waiting for them to update
<StevenR> bigcalm: well, when did you make the switch?
<bigcalm> I requested the change be made at 10:34 and got a responce at 10:47 that it had been done.
<StevenR> bigcalm: ok, so that might still take 15 mins to hit all DNS servers (it does where I work, a change on the master isn't made immediately)
<StevenR> *isn't replicated
<StevenR> so you've probably got another 15 mins or so.
<bigcalm> From ns1.netnames.net (where the record lives)
<bigcalm> totalderivatives.com.   3600    IN      A       94.236.35.8
<andylockran> anyone familiar with python-apt point out which module I should be using for a function similar to: apt-cache show
<bigcalm> From VirginMedia
<bigcalm> totalderivatives.com.   17139   IN      A       80.79.128.93
<bigcalm> An odd TTL number there from VM
<StevenR> bigcalm: ok. that's broken.
<StevenR> bigcalm: not really, it's a "cache ttl" kind of thing
<StevenR> bigcalm: so it'll decrease until it expires
<bigcalm> I see
<bigcalm> So in about 4ish hours
<bigcalm> And that's just VM
<StevenR> 4.7 hours to go.
<bigcalm> I have no idea about all the other caching servers in the world
<StevenR> bigcalm: if you're wanting to turn a server off, can it wait until tomorrow?
<bigcalm> Anybody else fancy doing a dig on their ISP's dns?
<bigcalm> StevenR: hopefully
<StevenR> totalderivatives.com.3599INA94.236.35.8
<popey> totalderivatives.com.   3600    IN      A       94.236.35.8
<StevenR> I get consistant cached results from my ISP
<bigcalm> At least both hosts access the same database. So the transition should be smooth
<popey> our internal dns shows the new IP too
<bigcalm> popey: thank you :)
<popey> but then it would because there will be no caching here
<popey> because nobody has ever looked that host up
<StevenR> bigcalm: I suspect you'll see stuff on the old until tomorrow.
<bigcalm> And you haven't asked for that domain name before now :)
<Daviey> StevenR: replications from master to slaves happens near immediately with my nameservers :)
<bigcalm> Fair enough
<brobostigon> afternoonings everyone.
<bigcalm> Gah, already?
<bigcalm> Hi brobostigon
<brobostigon> hi bigcalm
<StevenR> Daviey: that's nice. We can't do that (too many changes!)
<Daviey> StevenR: seriously?  an AXFR isn't that intensive.
<bigcalm> Wish netnames.net allowed full record transfers
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Gary Kearley] giffgaff - http://kearley.net/giffgaff/
<StevenR> Daviey: it's over multiple sites, etc. I don't work on that team, so I don't know how bit it is, but changes can take upto 15 mins to be replicated.
<StevenR> *how big it is
<kaushal> Hi
<kaushal> How do i invoke cron every sec
<brobostigon> i noticed an interesting bug yesterday with google+ app, and andoird gingerbread, with gps on, when you write a new post, it would poll the gps to find the position, but would shortly after FC, after you try and choose the position.
<davmor2> kaushal: why would you want to
<kaushal> * * * * * root /usr/lib64/sa/sa1 1 1
<brobostigon> android*
<kaushal> davmor2: I am testing an application
<popey> kaushal: have you searched on google?
<kaushal> davmor2: is it possible ?
<kaushal> popey: yes
<popey> there are lots of threads about this
<popey> cron has a minute granularity
<popey> not seconds
<kaushal> ok
<kaushal> popey: http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/linux-newbie-8/how-to-run-crontab-job-for-every-5-seconds-667315/
<kaushal> not sure how do i set it
<gord> kaushal, you might have more luck with "while true; do <your program here>; sleep 1; done"
<kaushal> ok
<popey> which is what that link does
<popey> and what most other results on google suggest
<kaushal> gord: so put while true; do <your program here>; sleep 1; done ?
<kaushal> in a file ?
<kaushal> bit confused
<kaushal> apologies
<popey> that link has an explicity example
<popey> -y
<gord> kaushal, just put it in a terminal, replacing <your program here> with your program
<kaushal> gord: i always want it to run
<kaushal> so background ?
<kaushal> efficient way to do it
<gord> just don't close the terminal?
<kaushal> gord: so screen ?
<bigcalm> Put it in a screen?
<gord> if  you want?
<kaushal> ok
<bigcalm> Put it in a cronjob that runs every x mins and checks if it's already running
<bigcalm> Eggdrop bots do this very well
<bigcalm> kaushal: google botchk for hints
<Daviey> kaushal: Whilst you can (ab)use cron to run something every second, i suspect you are doing it wrong.
<bigcalm> I keep forgetting that ABP is running and wondering why adverts on a client's site weren't working
<oimon> brobostigon: there was a problem with google+ on android yesterday
<oimon> i couldn't even get past the inital screen
<brobostigon> oimon: i got past that, souns like a different cause.
<oimon> what would be the reason for an installed app not appearing in the unity dash search list, or the "installed applications" list?
<BigRedS> Is there a way to force the sidebar thingy in unity to hide when it's deciding to not autohide?
<BigRedS> ah
<BigRedS> just don't use full-screened (as in F11) windows
<BigRedS> oimon: at a guess, it's just not put itself in the menu properly
<BigRedS> I've no real idea, but that's how I'd make that search work
<gord> oimon, it not having a .desktop file
<gord> or if its chosen to hide itself from search/menu's
<oimon> gord, the app is gimp
 * oimon wonders if new gimp will arrive in oneiric
<oimon> hmm seems that gimp 2.8 is still some way away
<popey> WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!
<popey> That is all.
<oimon> nurse, somebody needs their pills please
<gord> man, #ubuntu-uk is going to be a riot when we are all pensioners
<oimon> most people still using xchat i expect
<oimon> i've worked with loads of old guys in IT who always go on about mainframes etc and never moved on in their knowledge much. i wonder what the stumbling block will be for those of us in their 30s/40s now? cloud? something else?
<gord> 30s/40's? old? o_O
<mar_33> hey guys, my Desktop folders and files suddenly disappear but when I list it from terminal I find each and every thing of it . I confuse any help :S
 * gord hides from the flack
<oimon> gord..i mean the old guys late 50s/60s probably stopped learning new stuff in their 40s
<popey> What is this client-server you speak of?
<mar_33> what about my question ????
<BigRedS> mar_33: I don't know how to do it, but I suspect you just need to toggle the showing of the contents of ~/Desktop on your desktop in whatever DE you're using
<gord> mar_33, it sounds like nautilus is crashing, but i can't really help you more than that
<oimon> a lot of users at my place still login to a particular machine to run pine (as per in the 90s) . i tell them they can run it from any host i.e. their own machine, but they persist. i am thinking of changing the ip of that box to 127.0.0.1
<BigRedS> I still not-infrequently log on to my machine to run mutt.
<oimon> i haven't bothered to learn ipv6 yet
<BigRedS> makes more sense to me to do that than arse around with imap/pop3/smtp settings. SSH does a perfectly good job of encrypting teh connection and doesn't require config
<popey> I used to quite like using pine
<popey> about 15 years ago
<oimon> BigRedS: yeah but these guys get the same config experience whatever machien they logon to (automounted home dirs), nothing to configure
<popey> change is bad
<popey> fear change
<BigRedS> well, surely they'd have to configure it initially
<BigRedS> and what's the benefit? The old way works just as well as the new way
 * BigRedS might be a tiny bit of a luddite
<oimon> BigRedS: if it works on the "magic server", it works just the same on their own box
<BigRedS> oh, so even the server has the same ~ as their pc?
<oimon> yes
<oimon> automounted nfs home dirs ftw
<BigRedS> ah. Well, there's no reason to *not* connect to the 'server' in that case then :)
<oimon> some also do a remote -X connection to run mathematica/maple to their machine :(
<ging> oimon: can automounted home dirs like that cope with having more than 1 distro ?
<BigRedS> ging: it's more the versions of whatever writes its config files to ~ that matters than the distro (though that is somewhat defined by the distro)
<oimon> ging: sort of..i'll explain
<oimon> i use ubuntu, whereas most other machines here use scientific linux. so my tomboy applet etc won't load on the SL boxes. even worse, my firefox version is different and plugins may not work, or worse, get uninstalled.
<oimon> different versions of SL5.0-5.7 are absolutely fine.
<oimon> but i tend to use KDE on SL box , and gnome on ubuntu machine to avoid shagging up my gnome config, and if firefox is running on my box, it will have a .lock file and start acting funny
<ging> i guess that's 1 way around it
<oimon> most staff don't have an issue because it's just a few of the IT support dudes who run ubuntu
<oimon> i'm getting a bit nervous about the KDE4 upgrade in SL6.1 - how will users cope?
<oimon> it's not even a recent KDE4 version
<diplo> Anyone used Hylafax much here ?
<GreenDance> Afternoon :)
<hoover> hello
<GreenDance> by any chance does anyone here know CSS?
<GreenDance> #css is all quiet
<wintellect> GreenDance: a little, what do you want to know?
<GreenDance> wintellect: I'm having trouble with a cell, I want it to be 100% height of the browser, but it doesnt seem to want to work
<GreenDance> wintellect: ill get the code for you, 2 secs please
<wintellect> ok - pastebin it
<daubers> lo
<wintellect> lo daubers
<daubers> quiet in here today isn't it
<wintellect> I only arrived - about 2mins before you
<GreenDance> wintellect: http://pastebin.com/SAaMMWfm
<wintellect> GreenDance: looking...
<GreenDance> wintellect: thank you
<wintellect> GreenDance: almost there
<GreenDance> wintellect: thank you
<wintellect> adding it to pastebin for you
<GreenDance> thanks
<wintellect> GreenDance: http://pastebin.com/fJjyHUmv
<wintellect> GreenDance: essentially, it works on the premise that "body" is set to a height of 100% and the divs have an "absolute" position, then when their height is set to "100%" the calculation is based upon their parent's height
<GreenDance> wintellect: the code isn't displaying correctly in the browser
<wintellect> how so?
<ormiret> can anyone point me in the right direction for letting users start/stop services without sudoig to root (if that's possible)?
<GreenDance> wintellect: theres a scroll bar on the right hand side to go up and down, the code isn't displaying at the height of the browser
<wintellect> what is it doing wrong GreenDance ?
<wintellect> GreenDance: it is, just that you have a div along the top called "header"
<wintellect> GreenDance: I guess you could try and fix this by moving the "left" and "center" divs up by the height of the "header" box
<StathisV> Hello! Three weeks before I was installed the Ati Radeon HD 6670 in my computer under  Ubuntu 10.04.  I had a lot of problems with ati drivers and usualy my system in booting,  message me  "checking battery state" and then died . The problems were solved when I made upgraded to 11.04 with "radeon" vga driver. But suddenly yesterday the same message had rise. What should I do to fix it? I
<StathisV> was searching the internet, but nothing useful found.
<GreenDance> wintellect: i don't understand, sorry
<hoover> cheers all
<BigRedS> hah. I emailed First Direct asking if there's anything I'm likely to want to do that I can't do online, for example replace a lost or stolen card.
<BigRedS> They've responded saying that some things need doing over the phone, like registering for telephone banking :/
<DJones> BigRedS: With my bank, if I want to order a cheque book via online banking, I have to register for telephone banking........?
<BigRedS> haha
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Kwabena Aning] Moving to Scala - http://blog.kaning.co.uk/archives/290
<BigRedS> I think I'm going to go with them in any case - they publish a geographical number for enquiries which is also 24hr. That, I think, is as good as the banking industry does :(
<oimon> that reminds me, i need a new chequebook - banks never send them automatically when you finish anymore :(
<czajkowski> are cheques still in operation thought they were being phased out ?
<BigRedS> yeah, but it's a very slow phasing out
<oimon> how else do i pay the plumber?
<DJones> The banks recently announced that they weren't getting rid of cheques in 2018 as planned
<DJones> Going to be kept for "as long as customers need them" http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-14122129
<DJones> But no cheque guarantee cards anymore
<BigRedS> that sounds an awful lot like banks acquiesing to their customers' demands
<BigRedS> that's rather nice of them
<DJones> Not sure about that, sounds more like the government/mp's have lent on the banks to say don't do it
<BigRedS> ah, perhaps. I was all impressed with the banks for a moment there
<oimon> cheques are really useful in certain situations
<oimon> i can't see anything filling the gap tbh
<popey> cash?
<BigRedS> Nah, cash is too trasnferable
<popey> Book tokens!
<BigRedS> in that a cheque is only valuable to whomever you've made it out to, no point in someone else nicking it, no great loss if it's misplaced
<BigRedS> I think we should just return to a barterting system
<popey> luncheon vouchers!
<gord> writing IOU on a piece of paper?
<oimon> .staff at my old company used to leave luncheon vouchers lying around, up to Â£100 worth.
<popey> i recall being on holiday in spain with some chaps, a local gentleman of african extraction was attempting to tell us some very low quality watches
<oimon> i used to say to them , thats money, you know...they would be ....nah!
<popey> my friend was teaching him the barter system
<popey> it was the most fun I had on holiday
<BigRedS> haha
<davmor2> popey: Yeah they operate the barter system up here too, it's more like give it me or I kill you but that is still a fair barter right ;)
<popey> he used to hold his hand up in the air "you're up here mate", then hold his hand at the ground "I'm down here", "We need to meet in the middle, here!" (holiding his hand 1cm off the floor)
<popey> âº
<oimon> anyone know anything about family tax credit ?
<popey> my wife does :D
<davmor2> oimon: the T'interweb does
<popey> she deals with that stuff :D
<oimon> it doesn't answer my question though :(
<oimon> which is:
<popey> 12!
<davmor2> oimon: that why you can't get and answer my friend
<davmor2> oimon: you need to ask the question :D
<oimon> say bob earns 45k but gives 10k/year to charity. then his income (for tax purposes) can be regarded as 35k. therefore with the tax credit system, would bob get the family tax credit, or forfeit it because the ceiling is around 40k income
<popey> surely the deduction would have to be done at source for that to work?
<oimon> HMRC don't have an issue normally
<popey> and I'm not sure it does mean his income is 35K
<oimon> taxable income..
<davmor2> oimon: the clue is in Bob earns part of that statement
<oimon> some employer do allow deduction at source, i just wonder if it is necessary
<DJones> oimon: fromthe tax credits website "We need to know the income from working as an employee in the tax year 2010-2011."
<DJones> Definition of earnings is at http://taxcredits.hmrc.gov.uk/ntchelp/helppane.aspx?H_VER=1.7&helpTopic=Glossaryearnings&helpType=undefined&v1=http%3A//taxcredits.hmrc.gov.uk&v2=&tmt=
<oimon> if bob earned 35k and his wife sheila earned 35k, there would be no problem. if bob's wife is a full time mum and earns 0k , but bob earns 45k there is a problem
<oimon> so bob needs to look into GAYE scheme
<DJones> Thats how I read it
<oimon> that sucks, because bob's charitable giving could be a regular portion, but also large lump sums
<oimon> which is not possible to include in GAYE
<oimon> bob's going to be upset when he hears this
<oimon> i'll recommend that he take a pay cut
 * popey wonders whether bob runs the charity
<oimon> nope
<popey> and whether bob is just using this to pay less tax and earn via other means
 * popey is sceptical like that
<oimon> not that either
 * BigRedS wonders whether bob is a beneficiary of the charity :)
<oimon> cynical bunch :)
<BigRedS> haha
<oimon> it's a shame that some of sheila's tax entitlement can't be shared by bob..rich people manage to do this somehow
<oimon> bob can pay into his pension to reduce the figure, but not to charridy
<DJones> Probably worth a phone call to the help line, might just be something that doesn't come up vey often & hasn't been mentioned on the website
<oimon> yeah, i'll suggest that to bob :) i think he had some problems last time getting through
<HazRPG> I see to have nothing but trouble with U1MS :/
<HazRPG> I think this is only like the 3rd time I've bought something from it...
<HazRPG> but my song still hasn't been transferred to my u1 account for syncing to my desktop ;/
<popey> HazRPG: poke them in #ubuntuone
<popey> they're nice chaps
<popey> even that aquarius bloke
<HazRPG> popey: cheers, might just do that :)
<HazRPG> didn't realise they had a channel
<HazRPG> popey: ah, just read title and clicked links... seems there's a known disruption to the service at the moment
<HazRPG> date was 2011-07-20 on the wiki
<oimon> my bank won't let me make a payment to the inland revenue of 0.30p
<oimon> 30p
<DJones> It is coming up to the end of the month, a lot people wouldn't have 30p left in their account :)
<oimon> that's my tax bill for the year. it says i have to pay a minimum of Â£1
<DJones> Nice tax bill
<popey> heh
<oimon> they said i didn't need to do a tax return this year but i did one anyway , cos i don't really trust then
<oimon> looks like my giant offlineimap backup failed half way :(
<HazRPG> oimon: heh, that must be the best tax bill ever
 * popey doesn't dare look at his tax bill
<DJones> HazRPG: nah, that would be a refund of 30p
<oimon> the best one was when i got 2k :)
<HazRPG> heh nice
<oimon> although to be fair, it just meant i had overpaid by loads
<HazRPG> yeah
<oimon> the way i see it, if people in your g+ circles perform a +1 on a link, it goes higher in your google search results, right?
<HazRPG> Only for the affected parties, not for an anonymous user
<oimon> yep
<HazRPG> If I +1 a link, that will result in a higher rate of appearance to those logged in on their google account and are following me.
<GreenDance> wintellect: Hi, are you still here?
<GreenDance> wintellect must be away
<GreenDance> offtopic: does anyone else here know css please?
<BigRedS> GreenDance: someone might, but nobody's likely to admit to it until you've given some clue as to how much knowledge you need
<GreenDance> BigRedS: I know a little, but not much, if anyone could help me with this I'd be most greatful, my problem is for the past 2 days i couldn't get this to work, I have 3 cells, a header, a menu, and a content area, the problem I have is, I would like the menu and content area to be 100% the height of the browser and not spill over if there is no content, also my menu has disappeared when i
<GreenDance> say 100%, but if I say 250px it appears, http://pastebin.com/5txMSTAY
<andylockran> guys - how do you boot into single user mode in natty?
<popey> hold shift to get grub prompt
<popey> e to edit boot line and add "single"
<andylockran> popey: doesn't seem to want to work
<andylockran> left shift/right shift?
<DJones> left shift
<Laney> anyone fancy verifying https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/tomboy/+bug/667736 ?
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 667736 in tomboy (Ubuntu Natty) "tomboy help content not available" [Medium,Fix committed]
<popey> bigcalm: your linksys/cisco thing... did you say you have ddwrt on it? if so, did you flash it first with some hardware specific image then another different one?
<popey> bigcalm: my boss had one arrive today, he found some online guide which said to do that
<popey> seemed to work fine and be fully up to date after first patch
<gord> i went with some netgear thing, not brave enough to go with ddwrt
<popey> well, boss did the flash thing on the cisco one he bought, was very easy
<Laney> people are hawking their affiliate codes on planet u-uk now?
<popey> Laney: people as in Gary.
<Laney> he's not a person?
<popey> he is very much a person
<popey> I take "people" to mean "more than one person"
<BigRedS> popey is strongly typed
<daubers> Gah!
<daubers> spent _ages_ laying out a PCB, then realised that I had the pins wrong on a chip, now it's probably quicker to just start again :(
<popey> can you not use a pcb layout thing that does it for you?
<bigcalm> popey: was a little while ago now. I recall using one image to start with and then another to fine tune
<bigcalm> Flip, wrong key
<bigcalm> ctrl+q/w need to be unbound from x-chat
<bigcalm> I was trying to say that it works atm. So I will bring it as is and let you brick^wflash it
<popey> hah
<popey> Yay! Humble Bundle 3!
<popey> http://www.humblebundle.com/
<shauno> ugh.  so a kid at work tried to make a joke about their being no games on the mac.  me being a smart-ass, fired lemmings up in dosbox.  it went straight over his head because *drumroll*  he'd never heard of lemmings
<shauno> so not only am I not funny, but I'm now old to boot.
<bigcalm> But you also have lemmings to play :D
<BigRedS> never heard of lemmings?
<BigRedS> what?
<popey> my kids will like crayon physics
<gord> every time the humble bundle comes out i already own all the games =\
<popey> I've only ever already owned one
<popey> world of goo
<gord> popey, congrats :)
<gord> popey, second to top contributor
<popey> heh
<popey> for about 3 seconds I bet!
<gord> popey, yup look at that, someone took you over =\
<popey> gord: refresh
<gord> popey, *cough*
<popey> haha
<popey> wait till notch turns up
<gord> yeah no i'm not matching him.
<popey> also, linux average, again
<gord> yup, linux users are awesome :)
<davmor2> popey: is notch the guy with more money than sense?
<davmor2> gord: Nice 1Â¢ more
<davmor2> gord: I got to ask when do you have time to play all these games?
<popey> he doesn't have children :D
<popey> there are some of the old bundle I haven't even played yet!
<popey> I will play them when I retire ;)
<gord> yeah my evenings and weekends are entirely my own ;)
<popey> and the cats
<gord> also i don't do a very good job of finishing games http://backloggery.com/gordallott
<gord> aww here come the big guys
<exobuzz> oh no another humble bundle for me to throw money at and never get the time to play the games
<exobuzz> im stilling playing some from bundle 1
<exobuzz> popey, wow. you are generous!
<exobuzz> crayon physics looks cool heh
<popey> well.. the way I look at it, my kids will play those games for _hours_
<exobuzz> aah yeh hehe
<popey> I could spend that amount on _one_ visit to the cinema
<exobuzz> don't buy the popcorn :)
<popey> which would be 2-3 hours of entertainment
<popey> haha
<popey> might go and see Cars 2 at the weekend thinking about it
<popey> tell the kids "you cant go to the cinema, daddy spent your pocket money on games"
<exobuzz> popey, a few of these games look decent. a few erm. dont :)
<exobuzz> ill do my usual "somewhat more than the average purchase but not as generous as popey" then heh
<MartijnVdS> \o/ back from UK
<MartijnVdS> *fires up sound-juicer*
<popey> haha
<MartijnVdS> popey: "<Â£5" bins are great :)
<popey> :D
<MartijnVdS> popey: http://www.discogs.com/MC-Hawking-A-Brief-History-Of-Rhyme-MC-Hawkings-Greatest-Hits/release/1302580
<exobuzz> heh nerdcore
<gord> vvvvvv is wonderful, you can beat it rather quickly too :) best game on there, crayon physics deluxe is a lot of fun, didn't like and yet it moves much. not got to cogs or hammerflight yet
<MartijnVdS> exobuzz: Quite :)
<exobuzz> MartijnVdS, do you know mc fronatalot also ?
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: what did ya do in England :)?
<MartijnVdS> exobuzz: I have heard some of his stuff
<HazRPG> s/England/UK/*
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: Going to the Scifi thing with the daubersman and AlanBell and some other people who turned up
<AlanBell> yay
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: (the scifi thing = bl.uk/sciencefiction)
<exobuzz> MartijnVdS, this one ? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YeV0pLRyM7o
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: Ah cool, doh! Didn't realise that was this weekend o.o
<exobuzz> one of my faves heh
<MartijnVdS> exobuzz: "First World Problems" I think I saw
 * popey goes home
<popey> ttfn all
<MartijnVdS> \o
<exobuzz> ive also heard some stuff from Optimus Rhyme
<exobuzz> MartijnVdS, the video is quite nice from that one i linked.
<MartijnVdS> exobuzz: those names.. 8-)
<exobuzz> hehe
<MartijnVdS> exobuzz: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fow7iUaKrq4 -- kill -9
<exobuzz> wow. thats even nerdiercore
<exobuzz> ok. i doubt id listen to that heh
<daubers> Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
 * daubers just sent his first PCB to the magic company that makes them
<hamitron> daubers: how many layers?
<StevenR> daubers: pcb to do what?
 * MartijnVdS guesses something storageish
<daubers> StevenR:  Building a set of light gates for someone at work :) Just a mux chip and a load of LDRs
<daubers> (32 LDRs, 2 lasers and some wireless chips to transmit the data)
<Azelphur> lol fujitsu just came out with a intel atom phone
<Azelphur> official estimated battery life: 2 hours
<ali1234> does it run meego?
<StevenR> windows 7 iirc
<ali1234> oh
<ali1234> well there you go then
<ali1234> if it's a full PC it's not going to have good battery life
<Azelphur> indeed
<ali1234> would be good candidate for meego port though
<ali1234> oh it dual boots
<ali1234> you can't make phone calls from W7
<ali1234> and the phone OS presumably has better battery life
<popey> evening all
<MartijnVdS> \o
<MartijnVdS> Either I bought too many CDs, or my CD drive is way too slow
<MartijnVdS> finally done with the juicer
<daubers> lo
<andres-kain> yay! software centre now works!
<andres-kain> but now keyboard is miss configured
<MartijnVdS> and you're happy about that? :P
<andres-kain> missing the other /
<andres-kain> yep. cause i think i can solve that!
<MartijnVdS> right-alt + / might help?
<andres-kain> nope.
<andres-kain> funny I have two keys for < and two keys for >
<andres-kain> oH wait a minute found it!\
<MartijnVdS> did you select the wrong layout?
<andres-kain> it seems so. I had to install the whole thing, used the auto detect.
<MartijnVdS> andres-kain: you can (re-)select a keyboard layout in the preferences -> keyboard dialog
<gord> it would be nice is routers came with an option in their firmware for turining off the LED's
<mgdm> Ooooh yes
<mgdm> leccy tape is suboptimal
<bigcalm> I was going to say
<MartijnVdS> Soldering iron, replace with normal diodes.
<mgdm> I'd settle for a switch
<mgdm> I don't want them permanently dead
<MartijnVdS> you can solder those in too
<gord> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mi-CR6owrxA my latest router led conundrum
<gord> until i get some pain or black nail varnish or something i'v had to make do with taping some paper over the big led thing
<gord> it litterally lights up a corner of the room
<MartijnVdS> gord: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=765xVYO3aAU
<MartijnVdS> gord: it has configurable LEDs
<gord> MartijnVdS, fun
<MartijnVdS> gord: and it does _everything_ you'll ever need (wifi-n dualband concurrent, dect, isdn, analog phones, SIP, gigabit, USB printer/disk sharing, bandwidth monitoring, power monitoring)
<MartijnVdS> gord: etc.
<mgdm> Â£LOL?
<MartijnVdS> mgdm: I got mine for free -- my emplo^H^H^H^H^HISP gives them away with contracts
<MartijnVdS> mgdm: you have to be in .nl though
<mgdm> ah
<MartijnVdS> also, IPv6 :)
<mgdm> One of my medium-priority projects is to make my DD-WRT router do IPv6 for my network
<MartijnVdS> I get native v6 over DSL
<MartijnVdS> also, I will be getting it on fibre next year \o/
<MartijnVdS> 500/500 mbit fibre
<MartijnVdS> FttH.
 * MartijnVdS does a happy dance
<mgdm> shiny
<popey> wow
 * popey moves to MartijnVdS' house
 * hamitron flexes with his 600/440
<MartijnVdS> popey: 61k homes have been connected, by the end of next year >200k
<popey> blimey
<mgdm> â«âª OggCamp is happening at MartijnVdS' house, MartijnVdS house â«âª
<popey> heh
 * MartijnVdS doesn't press the "unlock lobby" button on his intercom system :)
 * gord moves to MartijnVdS's house and starts his own UK isp
<hamitron> what worries me about these high internet speeds.... gonna make my house cables reduntant :/
<MartijnVdS> hamitron: my house has gigabit ethernet. It'll cope with 500/500 just fine
<gord> hoping Be start offering a fibre plan later this year, that would be nice
<hamitron> mine is 100mbit
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> the cable says cat5e, so should be ok
<hamitron> but it was the cheapest I could find
<hamitron> ;)
 * daubers needs to do a B&Q run tomorrow
<mgdm> not as good as a BBQ run
<czajkowski> Daviey: are you here ?
<Daviey> czajkowski: always
<czajkowski> Daviey: ok join when I say join
<Daviey> czajkowski: uh ok
#ubuntu-uk 2011-07-27
<knightwise> morrrrning
<MartijnVdS> \o knightwise
<Apacheuk> morning everyone
<diplo> morning all
<MartijnVdS> \o
<DJones> Morning all
<DJones> Car insurancers are a scam, current insurer has quoted Â£800, just got various quotes, cheapest with a recognised insurer is only Â£375
<TheOpenSourcerer> morning all
<daubers> Morning
<diplo> DJones, I totally agree they suck
<diplo> Also charge you an exorbitant amount to pay monthly, it worked out at just over Â£100 a year :/
<daubers> Who sucks now?
<diplo> Insurance companies :)
<daubers> Ah, ok
<diplo> normal OT chatter :P
<DJones> diplo: This one is only charging about an extra Â£20 for monthly payments, but always depends on original premium and whether their interest rates are rip off rates
<diplo> yeah, I'm going for a new credit card when mine is due in Oct, pay it off with that with 0% on purchases for 12 months, so can can pay Â£25/30 a month or more with out interesrt
<diplo> interest*
<brobostigon> morning everyone.
<diplo> Morning brobostigon
<brobostigon> when i just tried to run aptitude safe/upgrade, when it got to eglic, it came up with a message in a text editor, i cant get rid of, to continue, i cant remember how to get rid of it, ideas please.?
<brobostigon> safe-upgrade*
<TheOpenSourcerer> happy birthday to you brobostigon :-D Too early for a swift one?
<brobostigon> TheOpenSourcerer: thank you :), maybe around lunchtime, :)
<brobostigon> TheOpenSourcerer: can you help with my question above please.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Nope - don't really understand the question :-(
<TheOpenSourcerer> ALT+F4?
<brobostigon> TheOpenSourcerer: wouldnt that kill my whole terminal ?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Yes.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Probably
<TheOpenSourcerer> Depends, is the text editor in its own window?
<brobostigon> TheOpenSourcerer: while aptitude is unpacking, it came up with a blocking message, inside what looks like vi.
<TheOpenSourcerer> ALT+f4 just closes the currently focussed window
<TheOpenSourcerer> Ahh - vi.
<brobostigon> TheOpenSourcerer: inside the same screen window, i am running aptitude safe-upgrade inside.
<TheOpenSourcerer> just type ESC then : then q!
<brobostigon> i am not sure it vi, it just looks like it, to me.
<TheOpenSourcerer> try that then.
<brobostigon> one minute.
<brobostigon> TheOpenSourcerer: nope, nothing.
<TheOpenSourcerer> dunno then. Screenshot perhaps?
<brobostigon> TheOpenSourcerer: http://imagebin.org/165083
<TheOpenSourcerer> Nope - sorry - don't know. It does look a nit like vi but might not be.
<TheOpenSourcerer> s/nit/bit
<brobostigon> yes, that is what i thought, aswell.
<brobostigon> ohwell, thank you TheOpenSourcerer
<brobostigon> :)
<DJones> brobostigon: Looking at the screenshot, am I right in thinking you're using debian, might be worth asking in the debian channel as well, could be something they'll know off the top of their heads
<brobostigon> DJones: i just found the solution, simply pressed q.
<brobostigon> simplest.
<DJones> lol
<brobostigon> sometimes the simplest solution is the best, and why i didnt think like that, who knows.
<brobostigon> i was just told, the message was outputted in less.
<popey> Morning all.
<davmor2> morning popey
<davmor2> morning all
 * davmor2 prods czajkowski to wake her up, then prods her again for not being here to get her prod in the first place
<czajkowski> morning
<brobostigon> morning czajkowski
<davmor2> morning czajkowski  the prodding worked then
<czajkowski> clearly
<diplo> Girls and boys, Can any one recommend me a external esata caddy from Amazon
<diplo> Got a Â£30 voucher
<diplo> One that works with ubuntu quite well, which I guess most will.
<popey> they all will
<popey> my boss has a nice one
 * popey goes to have a look for it
<diplo> Thanks popey :)
<diplo> I've seen a few I like, just thought I'd ask here before ordering
<diplo> Can't afford a micro server yet
<diplo> So thought a esata with my revo would be next best thing
<popey> his is one that doesn't needs screws
<Ng> hey talking of caddies, I need to get a usb caddy for a 12.5mm 2.5" SATA drive
<Ng> all the cheap ones on amazon only take 9mm drives ;(
<popey> yeah, mine doesn't fit either
<popey> which reminds me, must send my 1TB disk back
<popey> diplo: its an icy box i think
<popey> diplo: http://www.scan.co.uk/products/icy-dock-mb668us-1sb-toolless-otb-25-sataii-hdd-(95mm)-to-esata-and-usb-20-output-inc-leatherpouch
<popey> thats the one
<diplo> Thanks popey , sorry had a conference call
<diplo> Taking a look now
<diplo> Is this competition still open for podcast for HP server ?
<diplo> :)
<oimon1> guys, anyone have experience of dual booting xp and ubuntu, when the XP install has been dd'd from a standalone disk to a /dev/sda3 partition?
<BigRedS> that sounds like an annoyed xp install
<oimon1> yes :(
<oimon1> also grub2 is different from grub1 , which i knew
<oimon1> currently update-grub isn't even detecting the XP partition...seems i have broken it too much :(
<popey> yes diplo
<popey> i copied xp from one disk to another with a very handy tool at the weekend
<popey> not dd
<oimon1> oh?
<popey> http://www.todo-backup.com/
<popey> works _brilliantly_
<popey> it can even clone a disk whilst you're running it
<popey> i.e. I was running XP on an internal HDD and plugged a (smaller capacity) SSD in via USB, installed that software and hit the "clone" button.
<popey> it cloned the full disk layout to the smaller SSD and automagically shrunk partitions to make it fit
<popey> zero effort
<oimon1> sounds great
<AlanBell> I found a good compromise with my always on home server
<AlanBell> it boots from an 8GB SD card plugged in via USB, it has a 500GB hdd which is spun down almost all the time using the hdparm settings
<popey> oimon1: yeah, it's great, can even build a custom Linux ISO/USB stick containing their software so you can do a recovery when the disk has failed or is new/empty
<oimon1> is it for windows or multi os?
<popey> its for windows
<popey> but clearly they have a linux version because when you make their custom linux iso/img it boots directly from a linux kernel to their app
<oimon1> gonna try writing this dd image one more time then try this todo
<popey> the only issue I had with todo was that the power management in xp would spin down the usb disk whilst I was backing up
<popey> so i had to switch that feature off
<oimon1> this is the kind of fun i get up to on my day off when the toddler is asleep
<BigRedS> Ah! Finally found a package in Debian Testing that's as new as the one in Arch! :)
<BigRedS> that probably counts as off-topic here...
<Laney> you're complaining that testing is too out of date?
<BigRedS> No, there's an Arch user here who keeps mocking me for being 'out of date'
<BigRedS> and, finally, I've found that I'm not
<BigRedS> or he is
<Laney> well presumably you run testing because you don't think having the latest of everything is the most important thing
<BigRedS> yeah, it is entirely in jest. I'm a luddite, he's got an obsession with updating things
<Laney> emerge sync!
<n1md4> ...better things.
<n1md4> I'm not even supposed to be here!  I don't even run arsebuntu anymore (joke aimed at BigRed) ciao
<Laney> err
<AlanBell> it's the way you tell them
<andylockran> hostname
<andylockran> hostname
<AlanBell> my kingdom for a hostname
<popey> Is that like "New York, New York"?
<popey> Hostname, Hostname.
<andylockran> haha
<andylockran> :p
<AlanBell> going to have to call a PC somewhere "hostname" just to mess with people's minds
<davmor2> AlanBell: kermit
<popey> nosthame might catch some people out
<Daviey> Anyone here on Orange mobile contract?
<directhex> moi
<BigRedS> my work phone is
<davmor2> Daviey: yeap
<davmor2> Daviey: Why?
<Daviey> davmor2: did you get an sms about data roaming in europe?
<Daviey> reply to get this offer.. ?
<popey> i didnt
<Daviey> Something like 3 quid per day, upto 30MB.. must sign up before August 31st .. (This opts you out of the EU 12MB arrangement.)
<Daviey> Trying to work out if it is a con :)
<DJones> Daviey: http://www.whistleout.co.uk/blog/daily-30mb-on-roaming-orange-uk
<DJones> http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/Orange-UK-Roaming-Data-Plan-30MB-3,news-36013.html
<DJones> Official announcement http://newsroom.orange.co.uk/2011/07/15/orange-launches-new-eu-daily-mobile-internet-browsing-bundle/
<Daviey> DJones: yeah, the "opt out of EU thing" is what concerned me
<Daviey> it does seem like a good deal
<Daviey> or "better" deal
<AlanBell> I don't know why roaming data costs much at all really
<AlanBell> not as if the data itself roams
<Daviey> someone emailed me 2 x 3MB pics whilst i was in France last year.
<Daviey> That was *painful* to realise how much it cost, for something i didn't even want :)
<BigRedS> ouch
<AlanBell> if I had let my phone do data roaming in Germany a few weeks back it would have uploaded a 650MB video to Google+ instant share
<BigRedS> I like T-Mobile's thing where it defaults to no international roaming
<BigRedS> and then you can turn it on if you really want it
<BigRedS> but it's off at T-Mobile, you don't need to trust the phone
<bigcalm> During my last trip in France, I bought some data and then forgot about it
<bigcalm> Wondered why my monthly DD was 40 quid higher than normal
<diplo> Afternoon guys. trying to mv some DVD isos from my USB HDD ( NTFS ) to a share on my server here at work, getting 'Value too large for defined data type'
<davmor2> Daviey: I got one about holidaying in europe earlier in the year but you need to set it up by ringing them I found out when I went to budapest I was right annoyed
<diplo> Any suggestions whilst I am googling
<diplo> Share is on ubuntu server 11.04 ( ext4 )
 * DJones debates whether to buy a kindle
<Daviey> davmor2: I thought calling orange whilst roaming was free?
<davmor2> Daviey: it is if the network you are roaming on allows you to connect which didn't happen in budapest in the end I grabbed a pay as you go sim from there
<Daviey> ahh
<davmor2> Daviey: Also you can't enable it via the net either I tried that, you have to ring them, even though you can buy the European roaming pack online which is one I still don't quite get
<Daviey> heh
<Daviey> it's not uncommon to have to get the 'roaming lock' switched to enable.. by calling them
<Daviey> i thought most networks did that to new customers
<gord> today i have found out about the application "spd-say". well, thats today's productivity out the window
<AlanBell> gord: you can plug that into different back ends too, espeak isn't my favourite
<diplo> lol gord we found it a few weeks ago
<diplo> both of us have sshd running and were sending stuff to each others PC's at random times
<diplo> :D
<diplo> Very immature but we had some laughs
<gord> must note to make sure to leave a system with sound output running next time i leave home and someone house sits for me
<AlanBell> gord: http://www.theopensourcerer.com/2011/05/05/speak-to-me/
<gord> AlanBell, kind complicated :)
<AlanBell> no, not really I have done it all for you!
<awilkins> bug 495423 ; Seems to have just gotten Ubuntu a bad organizational reputation somewhere
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 495423 in grub2 (Ubuntu) "update to grub-pc writes MBR without checks, prompt or backup" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/495423
<exobuzz> perhaps ubuntu is just copying that "feature" from windows ;-)
<ali1234> perhaps the fact that you can't detect when grub is installed, is a bug in grub?
<ali1234> i mean, maybe you can't detect existing versions
<ali1234> so fix it so that you can
<ali1234> this could be done very easily
<Featurefreak> hey guys, not a S.M.A.R.T literate person here, anyone know what this means for a server drive? http://paste.pocoo.org/show/447443/
<BigRedS> Yeah, this seems like another bug that's was caused by a lack of foresight
<ali1234> simply hash the executable code along with the string "this is a grub install" and then write the result to a known offset inside the mbr
<BigRedS> Featurefreak: your temp looks way off
<ali1234> couple of bytes of hash/checksum should be enough
<BigRedS> the thing with smart, though, is that it's change you want to observe. The output of smartctl -a is only really useful compared against some previous output from it
<Featurefreak> BigRedS, it's an old 2006 server been sitting in germany the whole time, never massively busy for any sustained period of time, but mostly on.
<ali1234> Featurefreak: Reallocated_Sector_Ct is the most important one
<ali1234> being zero is good
<Featurefreak> hmm, i see
<ali1234> every disk i have ever seen die was because it ran out of spare sectors to reallocate into
<ali1234> wikipedia actually has a nice table: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S.M.A.R.T.
<gord> i had a disk die when it fell off the table once
<ali1234> oh yeah i had that once
<BigRedS> I've had several survive that
<BigRedS> oh, not while on though
<ali1234> but it was not able to produce smart values after :)
<bigcalm> What's the minimum amount of space one would give Ubuntu on a HDD/SSD?
<BigRedS> I'd not go much less than 20GB
<BigRedS> depending on what I was doing with the install/os/rest of hdd
<directhex> bigcalm, ubuntu needs about 4.3gb for an install (not all of this is used by post-install though) iirc
<awilkins> ali1234, That's actually a reasonable idea (for future detection of grub)
<awilkins> ali1234, Possibly the most productive thing anyone has said on that bug so far...
<bigcalm> I should have bought a bigger SSD :/
<bigcalm> 20.5gb free on this SSD
<exobuzz> if you are short on space you could always use btrfs and lzo compression (no fsck yet though ;-) )
<bigcalm> Win 7 and files taking up the rest
<exobuzz> 20gb is enough for the main system at least plus some extra packages and porn
<exobuzz> sorry i meant to type "media"
<bigcalm> ;)
<bigcalm> Humm
<bigcalm> Maybe I should buy a bigger SSD and dual boot it on the desktop. Then move this 60gb SSD into the laptop
<awilkins> I'm running on a 64GB SSD and have about 10GB left
<bigcalm> Or run 2 smaller SSD in the desktop
<bigcalm> awilkins: OS?
<awilkins> Maverick
<awilkins> My home folder is huge because it's full of enormous development files
<exobuzz> im currently considering ssd, but am unsure which to go for. read some stuff about 25nm nand being a lot less reliable
<bigcalm> I keep web dev work on the server, so I have no idea why windows needs so much space
<exobuzz> was originally considering ocz agility 3
<bigcalm> I have an ocz 2
<bigcalm> Very happy with it
<bigcalm> 80 quid though :S
<awilkins> exobuzz, I'm not sure it's such a big issue, TBH, I have some Kingston one - I wouldn't expect Kingston to represent a hallmark of quality but it's fine so far under quite a heavy load
<exobuzz> yeh this one is Â£90 :/
<bigcalm> Wait long enough and prices will drop
<czajkowski> anyone want to help mrevell https://twitter.com/#!/launchpad_net/status/96222459484848128
<czajkowski> it is intersting to do and only takes a few mins
<mrevell> thanks czajkowski :)
<awilkins> Prices will drop or sizes will just go up for the same money
<exobuzz> 25nm nand should be cheaper. they are not passing on the savings
<awilkins> Of course they aren't, this is high tech we are talking about
<exobuzz> i got 1tb hdd. i could just buy another for some extra speed and stripe em
<exobuzz> only Â£30 for another drive or so
<awilkins> Loads of RAM is the best investment
<czajkowski> AlanBell: bigcalm daubers ??
<exobuzz> and wait a while for an ssd
<awilkins> Esp on Linux, it caches big files in RAM very nicely
<bigcalm> The speed increase is wonderful, but I'm also looking at consuming less energy
<exobuzz> i got 8gb.. i made a mistake though. i emant to get 2x4gb and i bought 4x2gb so no upgrade space
<exobuzz> i need new glasses
<directhex> exobuzz, wifey has an ocz agility 3
<exobuzz> directhex, do you rate it ?
<awilkins> 8GB is probably enough unless you are debugging enormous 64-bit JVM server apps
<exobuzz> awilkins, it's been fine for what i use it for. even with a few vms running
<bigcalm> czajkowski: I don't use LP, so possibly not the target for this
<exobuzz> +i5-2500k on z68 chipset
<exobuzz> argh since i bought my cpu its gone down by Â£20
<czajkowski> bigcalm: could be the perfect one, not using it, new eyes
<exobuzz> :)
<exobuzz> and i7 is much cheaper too damnit heh
<awilkins> I dislike this "unlocked" thing for Intel CPUs
<exobuzz> me too
<directhex> exobuzz, somewhat jealous
<bigcalm> I'm still kicking myself for buying an i3 dell laptop. Can't upgrade it
<exobuzz> and only the K unlocked ones have the  better gpu. so it was a weird choice when they release h67/p67 and you still need the unlocked chip for h67 board for faster gfx even though you cant use the unlocked features
<awilkins> Like the bad old days when you bought a server upgrade and they sent an engineer with a wirecutter to snip the wirelink that disables the feature you're paying for
<exobuzz> :(
<bigcalm> Oh wonderful. My samba shares aren't working now
 * bigcalm quietly wheeps
<exobuzz> bigcalm, i3 is decent enough though for a laptop
<exobuzz> how do you mean cant upgrade it? i mean upgrading the cpu ?
<bigcalm> exobuzz: I still like the laptop, just annoed that I was trying to cut corners on cost
<bigcalm> Yes. From my research, one cannot upgrade the CPU in it
<directhex> one generally can't upgrade laptops
<exobuzz> ive never considered upgrading a cpu in a laptop anyway.
<exobuzz> i did upgrade the gpu in my dell inspiron 8000 though.
<exobuzz> i have an acer laptop. lcd backlight was going, so i took the screen from another acer machine, that was broken, but then i fixed the other acer machine, so i still need another screen. damnit
<exobuzz> must buy MORE broken laptops from ebay
<exobuzz> heh
<exobuzz> nice quit message
<bigcalm> Time to download 11.04 and install it on this 500gb HDD I just pulled from my mythtv box
<bigcalm> Why are Ubuntu still recomending 32bit over 64bit?
<exobuzz> dunno.
<DJones> they don't really, it goes back to when 32 worked better with some 3rd party software (flash etc)
<awilkins> i) The kernel supports PAE, so there's no benefit in terms of memory ceiling
<exobuzz> flash is ok on 64bit now as of recent days
<DJones> but the website hasn't been updated since then
<awilkins> ii) Most people don't need more than 4GB of RAM per process
<bigcalm> On the download page, the version type select field says "32-bit (recommended)"
<awilkins> iii) There may still be some minor compatibility issues (I've run into cases where the 64-bit packaging of some 32-bit apps was not adequate)
<ali1234> regarding 64 bit flash
<exobuzz> 64 bit is better for video/audio encoding
<ali1234> i need to use a ld preload hack to make flash fullscreen work properly
<ali1234> i apply this as part of nspluginwrapper
<ali1234> so, what to do if i use 64 bit flash?
<exobuzz> the new 64bit flash works fine on my machine
<ali1234> fullscreen doesn't
<exobuzz> on my machine it does.
<ali1234> on mine it doesn't
<bigcalm> Maybe I'll run windows in a vm if really needed
<exobuzz> then i dunno
<exobuzz> ali1234, is you are not using 64bit flash how do you know it doesnt ?
<DJones> bigcalm: There are also supposed to be some proprietry drives that may not work and some wireless cards that use ndiswrapper & have no 64 bit windows driver
<bigcalm> I see
<bigcalm> I wonder if I'll get my display link usb gfx working :)
<exobuzz> (flash 11 beta)
<DJones> bigcalm: This is quite a good thread about it, only 3 pages http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1756578
<bigcalm> Will read it later, ta :)
<ali1234> exobuzz: because i tried it with the old 64 bit flash
<ali1234> exobuzz: and the bug is reported in adobe jira where it is marked "wontfix"
<exobuzz> ali1234, erm. but then thats the old one. you dont know that they havnt fixed it
<ali1234> they haven't marked the bug as fixed
<ali1234> and they've specifically said they won't fix it
<ali1234> but just for you, i will test it
<exobuzz> this is a pointless discussion if you are not going to try it first
<exobuzz> im if the bug is still there then fine but you cant guess it
<ali1234> this bug has existed since forever
<ali1234> if they have fixed it i will be amazed
<DJones> ali1234: exobuzz I use full screen64 bit flash on my machine without problems (i3, 4gb ram, intel hd graphics)
<exobuzz> poibnt me to the bug
<ali1234> exobuzz: there is a full description of the bug on my blog: http://al.robotfuzz.com/content/workaround-fullscreen-flash-linux-multiheaded-desktops
<brobostigon> trek marathon. :) birthday pressies.
<ali1234> https://bugs.adobe.com/jira/browse/FP-1039
<ali1234> https://bugs.adobe.com/jira/browse/FP-751
<ali1234> https://bugs.adobe.com/jira/browse/FP-554
<exobuzz> they are all referenced o the first link
<ali1234> https://bugs.adobe.com/jira/browse/FP-5633
<exobuzz> works fine on my singel display anyway heh.
<exobuzz> single :)
<ali1234> yes, it only happens on dual head displays
<ali1234> because the video is scaled to the monitor size, but keeps the aspect ration of the total display area
<ali1234> https://bugs.adobe.com/jira/browse/FP-1566
<ali1234> ok enough of that
<ali1234> ok i just tested and the bug is still present in flashplayer11_b1_install_lin_64_071311
<ali1234> which brings me back to my original question
<ali1234> how do i apply a LD_PRELOAD hack to a single library?
<ali1234> without nspluginwrapper i have to load my hack before firefox, and then it affects all plugins of firefox and firefox itself
<popey> i have problems with 64-bit flash too
<popey> i get a black box where the video should be
<popey> frequently
<gord> i kinda gave up on 64-bit flash, went back to 32 bit and it actually works much nicer
<gord> with better grammar...
<popey> hah, seems I _am_ using 32-bit flash
<popey> ii  nspluginwrapper                    1.2.2-0ubuntu9                     A wrapper to run Netscape plugins on other architectures
<popey> what pants
<ali1234> yeah the black/white rectangle bug
<gord> i used to get that... i wish i could remember for the life of me what fixed it
<ali1234> nothing... it isn't fixed
<ali1234> it just only happens on certain sites
<ali1234> since i installed flashblock and whitelisted only youtube it doesn't happen any more ... cos youtube is one of the few sites that works properly
<ali1234> embedded youtube videos often show it though
<gord> yeah thats how it used to be for me...
<popey> i only get it on youtube
<ali1234> got adblock too?
<ali1234> it seems to happen more on pages that have multiple flash plugins
<popey> ah
<popey> yes, i have adblock
<ali1234> dunno then, you must just be backwards :)
<popey> it's very frequent
<ali1234> yeah it's very frequent for me too
<ali1234> but never happens on youtube
<ali1234> just "everything else"
<ali1234> bug 761074
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 761074 in flashplugin-nonfree (Ubuntu) "flashplugin-nonfree draws white rectangles" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/761074
<ali1234> found it :)
<gord> ooh maybe its fixed in O
<exobuzz> the back and white block thing happens with 32 bit flash on 64 bit. the 64bit flash doesnt have it
<exobuzz> isntall flash from ppa:sevenmachines/flash and try that
<ali1234> not interested in fixing that one
<ali1234> flash works on youtube, that's all i care about
<ali1234> as long as it works in fullscreen
<exobuzz> im sure you can still do your workaround for 64bit for your two screens
<ali1234> oh i can
<ali1234> but like i said, not without affecting all plugins and firefox itself
<czajkowski> mrevell: did you get anyone ?
<gord> flash is nicer on windows these days, its a shame
<ali1234> lol no
<mrevell> czajkowski, A few people have filled out the form, yeah, thanks
<czajkowski> mrevell: yay
<DJones> mrevell: Is it just an online form to be filled in?
<gord> flash has nice acceleration on windows, you can use multi-monitors properly and alt-tab away from fullscreen
<gord> nice
<mrevell> DJones, There's a form to fill out to say you're interested in taking part: https://ethn.io/27233
<DJones> Ah, telephone interview, just found it
<ali1234> gord: there's loads of bugs about fullscreen and focus on adobe jira too
<ali1234> (linux bugs)
<gord> adobe on linux is not fun
<gord> i don't prefer html5 for freesoftware/standards, but because flash on linux sucks
<ali1234> yeah
<ali1234> although at least you can block flash
<brobostigon> well, atleast inside chromium, html5, ie, webm, is a more resource efficiant and stable. compared to doing the equal in flash.
<dogmatic69> is there a site that shows user stats for OS like there is for browser stats?
<mgdm> I know what you mean but webm is a video format and only a fraction of what Flash does, and it's not part of the HTML5 standard
<brobostigon> when i first experimental with html5, i used oggv.
<ali1234> webm might be only a fraction of what flash *can* do
<ali1234> but it's probably about 97% of what flash is actually used for
<ali1234> mrevell: something new for launchpad, eh? i hope it's twitter integration - "i reported a bug about <package> : <link>"
<gord> i don't care what webm can or can't do, i just want to watch video
<mrevell> ali1234, It's not that but that's an interesting idea. Would you really want to tweet every bug you report?
<ali1234> mrevell: yes, and i want to follow the bugs that other people report too
<mrevell> Interesting. Anything else you'd want to tweet/dent?
<ali1234> well it would be nice if i could follow @package to get all the bugs reported on that package
<ali1234> but you might need to set up your own twitter instance to pull that off
<ali1234> also i believe you can get that info through email
<gord> you can, but its a lot more than 140 characters
<ali1234> yeah true
<ali1234> but i can just skim the subjects :)
<gord> pretty much what i do, it has an email api too so you can reply with a certain formatting to do different things
<ali1234> i always wondered if that was the case
<ali1234> if i get a email about a comment on a bug and i just hit reply, does that work?
<gord> should do
<gord> the api is more for setting status and stuff
<knightwise> Yo everyone
<brobostigon> afternoonings knightwise
<TheOpenSourcerer> man - this is hysterical... http://serverfault.com/questions/293217/our-security-auditor-is-an-idiot-how-do-i-give-him-the-information-he-wants
<ali1234> TheOpenSourcerer: :O
<andylockran> hey guys - what calendar integrates with the natty desktop?
<bigcalm> I can haz Ubuntu!
<andylockran> want to sync my gmail calendar with it
<DJones> bigcalm: \o/
<bigcalm> Now, how the flip do I rotate my central monitor 90deg clockwise?
<mgdm> bigcalm: put your arms out, grasp the sides with your hands... :P
 * bigcalm grasps mgdm's ears...
<DJones> bigcalm: Lie on your side
<bigcalm> Not a productive afternoon when you're trying to get a workstation 'working'
<ikonia> directhex: ping
<ali1234> how long do pastes on ubuntu pastebin last for?
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: yes.
<Daviey> bigcalm: try running oneiric :)
<davmor2> Daviey: it's easy once you get through the torrent of bugs :)
<czajkowski> wait........ no gord?
<Daviey> davmor2: hah, tbird hasn't worked this week for me.
<Daviey> been a muttful week
<davmor2> Daviey: I'm not a fan of TB at the minute with it's forever shrinking filter window, the pain you have to go through to modify an account it if it isn't autodetected (like say canonical accounts) the fact that it doesn't have some of the filtering options that evo has, oh and there is no calendaring for now oh and....
<mgdm> I was going to add a thing to make something about the account adding easier (think it was so you could specify encryption in the new account wizard thing)
<mgdm> but it was vetoed in favour of the autodetection thing
<mgdm> which is *rubbish*
<Daviey> mgdm: Where have you been?
<Daviey> I assumed you were dead.
<davmor2> Daviey: the biggest killer for tb is the 128% cpu usage updating the folders on first run
<davmor2> Daviey: oh and the fact that it randomly selected which folder it want to display
<Daviey> davmor2: I had to disable that as downloading >15GB of mail wasn't in the agreement between me and a damn mail client.
<davmor2> Daviey: yeah my person mail is only about a 1.5GB iirc but evo handled it fine tb went for the lot I wouldn't mind but it's all imap
<davmor2> anyway LUG time night all
<Daviey> nn davmor2
<BigRedS> Oh, does evo actually do imap?
<diplo-> evenin all
<mgdm> Daviey: not dead, just busy
<Guest20890> oh sweet i love being a guest
<mgdm> BigRedS: Evo has done IMAP for years, but i never really got on well with it
<dwatkins> Does anything that runs on Ubuntu link up to an exchange server for calendars yet?
<dwatkins> I suspect for some people that would be the tipping-point of being able to use Ubuntu.
<BigRedS> mgdm: no I mean 'does imap' in the sense of not insisting on syncing the entire mailbox
<bigcalm> I can haz rotated monitor :D
<BigRedS> AFAICR, the imap spec suggests it should only get the most recent 20
<BigRedS> bigcalm: dangerous. Every other PC will feel weird now
<BigRedS> my PC at work is vertical, I get annoyed at how short & wide my laptop is now...
<bigcalm> Slowly but surely, this will become a usable dev workstation without windows (other than to play gamez)
<bigcalm> BigRedS: I've had it for a few years. But never in Linux. I got fed up of Windows freezing so blanked the SSD and installed 11.04 ;)
<bigcalm> I like having my code on the central vertical screen.
<bigcalm> Now I just need to get the DisplayLink connected screen to get my 3rd monitor working
<BigRedS> ahhh, have you persuaded any games to comply?
<Daviey> eek, the archers seems to have started on Radio 4.. and i can't be bothered to reach the radio.
<bigcalm> It's a good job that I have a sound knowledge of tinkering with Linux systems. The stuff I've been doing today "just works" on windows without having to google and get messy with the cli
<bigcalm> BigRedS, Windows 7 is still on the original HDD in this machine. When I installed Ubuntu, it saw it and added it to grub as a boot option. Horay for Steam ;)
<dwatkins> bigcalm: I look forward to setting up a double or triple boot system soon
<bigcalm> My laptop is dual boot, but I rarely bother with windows on it
<BigRedS> Ah yeah, my Windows boot only ever does steam
<BigRedS> Every so often I'll use it relatively frequently for a couple of weeks, and then revert back to openarena
<suprengr> Eveninks all
<suprengr> ...bug or no bug time... Three GSM donle in in use tomight 'coz landlandy's out & (as she does) has turned off the router along with all else she turns off on going out!  No real prob as the dongle does me well well - normally
<shauno> (I'd file a bug against the landlady ;)
<suprengr> but have found that eberytime I fire up Rythmbox it instantly disconnects the dongle ;(  worth reporting as a bug I wonder? [could be a prob with the dongle driver - so undecided to go report to Three (not a lot of point) or to buglist.
 * suprengr likes shauno's comment alot
<mgdm> I suspect it might be seeing the USB mass storage bit and tyring to interact with it
<suprengr> mgdm, ahhh... you may have it there.
<suprengr> [as in it reconnects & stays connected after pull out & replace...  thanks that does make sense
<BigRedS> I'd still file that under 'bug' rather than 'expected behaviour'
<suprengr> BigRedS,  the dongle I assume - rather than the landlady ;)
 * suprengr [looking back on comments posted by suprengr  - apologises for spelling]
<MartijnVdS> oops, seems like guardian.co.uk have deleted their main index page
<MartijnVdS> "Sorry - we haven't been able to serve the page you asked for
<BigRedS> bah. why doesn't steam have a "download all my games in the background" optiongrggrou
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: it doesn't?
<BigRedS> MartijnVdS: apparently not
<BigRedS> and network manager seems to not have a 'keep my net connection stable' one at the minute, either
<diplo-> Hi guys, just upgraded to 11.04 on my desktop
<diplo-> Screen res is reporting 3820.x1920
<diplo-> Can't get it to do anything atm
<diplo-> Is there a quick way to get it to redetect ?
<MartijnVdS> diplo-: open the display preferences? disconnect one of your monitors?
<diplo-> heh couldn't do it
<diplo-> Graphics were tearing
<diplo-> Rebooted to recovery
<diplo-> reconfigured
<diplo-> installing proprietary now and see if that's better
<MartijnVdS> ah, it's nvidia?
<diplo-> yah
 * diplo- crosses fingers
<diplo-> No tearing
<diplo-> But...
<diplo-> wrong screen res still, can see top bar
<diplo-> But only right hand side of it :(
<MartijnVdS> get a better screen (one that communicates its possible resolutions properly to the graphics card)
<diplo-> Dell 2407
<suprengr> mgdm, BigRedS ... thanks for help - bug reported
<diplo-> It's worked fine till now
<diplo-> Works fine in classic as well
<diplo-> just not unity
<diplo-> well got settings screen up eventually
<diplo-> it's saying 1920x1200 :/
<diplo-> ah but xscreen info is saying 2840x1200
<daubers> lo
<MartijnVdS> \o daubers
<suprengr> daubers, MartijnVdS  et al, hi &  bye.. comedy time on Dave
<MartijnVdS> suprengr: No dave here (back home) :(
<daubers> :)
 * suprengr sad for MartijnVdS 
<daubers> MartijnVdS: You're better off that way
<MartijnVdS> daubers: I still have ITV3/4
<MartijnVdS> daubers: for my rerun needs
<bigcalm> Are there any Skype ATA devices that can be used in Linux?
<MartijnVdS> Lots of SATA devices that work
<MartijnVdS> but that's not "Skype ATA"
<MartijnVdS> I have a working "phone-shaped USB sound device", that works fine with skype on Linux
<bigcalm> Humms
<bigcalm> I do have a separate USB sound card and headset, so can continue to make calls. But no longer a device that sits on the desk and rings
<MartijnVdS> Mine has two "sound out" modes, one for ringing and one for your ear while making a call
<MartijnVdS> and with pulseaudio it all worked fine for me
<bigcalm> Apparently some people have got this working with Linux: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Yamamoto-Easy-Blue-Skype-Adaptor/dp/B000A0ZQ8Q
<bigcalm> Do people still use gkrellm, or is there something better out there?
<gord> soooo.. upgrading from 10.10 to 11.04 using the install cd? does not go well
<gord> just sits at "saving installed packages" forever
<czajkowski> gord: wb
<gord> czajkowski, didn't actually leave, just got turned into an anonymous guest :)
<czajkowski> gord: dont scare us that way, you're a regular fixture here
<gord> oookay now bash is segfaulting... i think there may be a hardware fault
 * AlanBell haz new chicks
<Daviey> AlanBell is a playar.
<brobostigon> AlanBell: how does you wife feel about that?
<brobostigon> your*
<AlanBell> she isn't into chicks as much as I am
<gord> crap the memory on my revo has errors
<brobostigon> AlanBell: hmm :)
<AlanBell> https://plus.google.com/photos/109175303602657131317/albums/5634058380065766801/5634055697024350002
<gord> will have to consult with popey tomorrow :(
<AlanBell> the three little ones are "Chocolate", "Specky" and "Snowdrop"
<AlanBell> and we hope they are all girls
<AlanBell> if any of them turn out not to be girls then I have a small problem, and they have a *big* problem
<gord> AlanBell, a tasty problem?
<AlanBell> potentially
<AlanBell> although I am not sure that will work out
<AlanBell> theopensourcerer might end up with a nice curry
<shauno> chocolate curry just sounds wrong
<directhex> ikonia: pong
<ali1234> awesome
<bigcalm> Me?
<ali1234> scipy
<ali1234> i have a signal recovery algorithm which is highly accurate and converges in under 3 seconds
<bigcalm> Erm, great :)
<ali1234> now i can read the news from 1997
<bigcalm> Heh
<ali1234> sorry, 1996
<ali1234> does anyone know about fontconfig?
<ali1234> looks like i can disable antialiasing for specific fonts
<ali1234> http://rg03.wordpress.com/2010/11/20/freetype/
<ali1234> probably need to relog now
#ubuntu-uk 2011-07-28
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Shorter Talks And New Tricks - http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/07/28/shorter-talks-and-new-tricks/
<daubers> Morning
<Apacheuk> morning everyone
<DJones> Morning all
<daubers> Anyone seen this yet and actually been surprised? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-14314935
<DJones> daubers: I was looking at that earlier, can't say I'm surprised, but it does seem outrageous
<daubers> DJones: Yeah, it's a bit of a sad state of affairs really :(
<daubers> Makes you wonder if the people supplying the government are still living in a world from 10/15 years ago when you could charge that kind of price
<DJones> I think I was more disappointed because it reads as though a lot of it is hardware overpricing, not just commercial software/operating systems
<DJones> When there are free & open source alternatives for the software, hardware seems to have as much of a tie in with certain manufacturers as MS do
<daubers> Yeah, you would of thought that buying in bulk like gov does, hardware would be significantly cheaper than what they're actually paying
<daubers> Also makes you wonder who signed off on that and didn't just turn around and walk out the door
<BigRedS> Whenever the government buys anything they go for the most expensive
<BigRedS> Where I used to work we did a good bunch of contracting for various govnernmental things. they were teh only people who ever paid list price, and they AIUI they dismissed the idea of waiting to see what sorts of discounts they could get.
<BigRedS> When the sidebar thingy in unity forgets to autohide, is there some way to remind it?
<oly> hi, can someone tell me can you disbale network shares in fstab
<oly> my vm will not boot because its trying to mount a cifs mount and failing
<oly> so i need to disable the cifs mount so i can get in and remove it
<DJones> Is it not just a case of putting a # infront of the fstab line
<oly> i can not boot up though to edit the file
<oly> it dies during boot complaining about the mount
<BigRedS> DJones: yuo
<BigRedS> oly: just put a '#' character at the begining of each line declaring a share you'd like to not mount
<oly> wondering if there is a kernel parameter i can use or something because recovery mode does the same
<czajkowski> aloha
<BigRedS> or add 'noauto' to the mount options so it's not mounted automagically
<oly> BigRedS, thats all well and good buyt how do i edit the file when i can not b oot the machine
<BigRedS> ah.
<BigRedS> boot into single-user mode
<BigRedS> I've no idea how Ubuntu manages that if there's no root password, though
<BigRedS> what's it trying to mount? It's hard to make the boot *fail* through it being unable to mount
<oly> a cifs share, it says i can press s to skip only it does not skip :p
<BigRedS> yeah, but it should still just keep trying for a while, then shrug and carry on
<oly> perhaps i have not waited long left it about 15 minutes so far
<DJones> I had a similar problem with an nfs share, I think at one point, I had to wait about 30 minutes before I could to a desktop
<oly> okay perhaps i will just wait then, seems a bit pof a silly timeout period :p
<oly> surely if its not responded within a minute you would knwo by then its not available
<DJones> Mine was a physical installation though, not a VM, not sure if that could make any difference
<BigRedS> nah, shouldn't do
<BigRedS> the kernel doesn't really care whether it's on imaginary or real hardware
<oly> could be, its mounting a folder from the c drive of windows but nothing essential, just my working folder press s to skip not working could be related to the vm though
<BigRedS> it's doing the same stuff, it's just what's under it that doesn't; that's part of the point :)
<BigRedS> you could boot a live CD and use that to edit fstab?
<oly> BigRedS, livecd is an idea may do if it does not boot in next half hour
<DJones> Can you edit the fstab of vm installation from a live cd?
<DJones> Presumably just a acase of mounting the vm first
<oly> yeah should work attach the iso and boot it, shoudl still have access to the hard disk image
<oly> luckly i have my laptop with me so not to much of an issue for the moment,
<DJones> Not having played with vm's very much, thats a big blank area in my memory :)
<BigRedS> DJones: I meant boot that VM with a livecd iso 'in the drive'
<BigRedS> It'd be nice if there was some way to mount a vbox disk image but, as far as I know, there isn't.
<DJones> BigRedS: Yeah I realised what you meant, probably didn't put my question very well
<DJones> I had never given a thought about how you'd edit a file within a vm when it was inside the vm container
<BigRedS> Ah, yeah. With Xen I gather they're just arbitrary volumes, normally LVM, so you just mount them and faff
<DJones> Not sure I like the new style Thunderbird 5.0 on windows, the transparancy takes a bit of getting used to
<oimon> DJones: is there a PPA on 'buntu yet?
<DJones> oimon: I would have thought it would be in the mozilla daily if anywhere
<oimon> DJones: ah, 11.10 has it, might try it on my testing box instead :)
<DJones> Heh, Thunderbird 6.0 is in a ppa
<DJones> 5.0 is at https://launchpad.net/~mozillateam/+archive/thunderbird-stable
<oimon> stable? wow
<oimon> i remember when giant leap in version numbers actually meant new features
<DJones> Heh even better https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mozilla-daily/+archive/thunderbird-aurora
<popey> Morning all
<BigRedS> I think they should drop this idea of version numbers and just use release dates...
<BigRedS> firefox-20110728
<oimon> it seems thunderbird still doesn't support maildir
<oimon> so much for my gmail backups in maildir format
<jpds> BigRedS: http://cdn2.knowyourmeme.com/i/21310/original/1251552127474.jpg
<BigRedS> jpds: haha!
<gord> grah it looks like the revo's are just glued together
<gord> don't see a nice way of prying mine open
<Gary> hammer>
<DJones> I see the MPA have won their case to force BT to block Newzbin
<gord> a nice way of prying it open that lets me put it back together without huge amounts of tape ;)
<diplo> Is this for upgrading memory gord  ?
<diplo> Saw you mentioning about errors last night
<diplo> Want to upgrade mine shortly
<popey> they're not glued
<gord> replacing it yeah
<popey> they are easy to get apart
<popey> one screw
<gord> the ram is screwed
<gord> popey, where's the screw? :)
<popey> on the bottom
<popey> iirc
<popey> i haven't had mine apart for a while and its at home and i am at work
<popey> they are clipped together
<iclebyte-work> is there a method of vetting security updates before applying them across many machines?
<popey> there is a seam round the edge, you can run a credit card round it to separate them
<diplo> Think I only have a gig in mine, think it will make a huge difference
<daubers> oimon: If you didn't solve your issue earlier, if you add init=/bin/bash to the kernel boot line in grub, it won't try and mount stuff in the fstab and it will mount / ro
<daubers> oimon: remount / rw and you can edit your fstab :)
<daubers> oimon: That will automatically log you in as root btw, no password needed
<diplo> daubers, think that was oly
<daubers> diplo: Ah, my bad :)
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<bigcalm> Is it possible to have Skype use one audio device (a USB soundcard/headset) and the rest of the Ubuntu system use another?
<bigcalm> And hi peeps :)
<gord> does skype not let you choose the output device?
<gord> i thought it did
<popey> yes, it does
<bigcalm> Yes, but it's only listing pulse audio
<gord> eh yeah it does here too
<gord> iruno how to do it then, there is nothing about pulse that states you can only use "Pulse" and not a specific output device
<bigcalm> Any other thoughts? :)
<daubers> bigcalm: An you not do it through pulse somehow?
<bigcalm> daubers: I haven't seen an option to assign skype to one thing and everything else to another
<daubers> bigcalm: think you can using pavucontrol
 * bigcalm takes a look
<daubers> bigcalm: You need the soundstream running to do it by the look of it
<bigcalm> daubers: perfect :D
<bigcalm> Thank you :)
<daubers> bigcalm: \o/ no probs
<daubers> Hmmm... can get "fibre" broadband from Plus net now aat my exchange
<daubers> but 18 month contract :(
<oly> daubers, cheers for that fstab tip
<BigRedS> does plusnet still exist?
<BigRedS> well, clearly
<BigRedS> I thought BT swallowed it
<bigcalm> Aren't plusnet pipex?
<daubers> BigRedS: They are part of BT... but run as a seperate entity
<daubers> oly: No probs :)
<BigRedS> ah, so it's not just rebranded bt broadband
<dwatkins> I'm probably going to switch to BeThere as soon as my tie-in with BT ends, I gather they're a vast improvement.
<AlanBell> daubers: I am having that installed next week
<AlanBell> fibre to the cabinet
<dwatkins> Mmm, tasty fibre.
<Daviey> you've got to have plenty of fibre in your cabinet, keeps you regular.
<daubers> AlanBell: I'm aiming at moving as soon as I can get a mortgage, so don't want an 18month contract :(
<daubers> Amusingly Plus nets broadband checker doesn't think i can get braodband, just dial up
<bigcalm> Wow, visiting flickr.com in chromium threatens to kill the system
 * bigcalm suspects Flash
<bigcalm> No such problem with FireFox
<bigcalm> Most strange
<oimon> daubers: was that me with the problem? doesn't sound like a problem i had
<daubers> oimon: Not really
<oimon> ah...you meant oly
<oimon> just read scrollback..don't worry all sorted
<bigcalm> Do people still use gkrellm for displaying useful CPU/memory/sensor information, or are there better alternatives these days?
<BigRedS> bigcalm: conky
<BigRedS> well, that's what I use when I'm in a *box sort of mood
<bigcalm> Ta
<bigcalm> Next ;) Is there a simple way of keeping a list of SSH hosts in easy clicking reach?
<bigcalm> I can remember a lot of the hosts I need to connect to, but I did get used to the saved list in PuTTY
<BigRedS> clicking? ssh?
<bigcalm> :)
<BigRedS> I used to have a bunch of aliases
<BigRedS> alias a='ssh avi.co'
<BigRedS> etc
<bigcalm> Ug
<bigcalm> That still means remembering a list
<bigcalm> I'm thinking of an additional menu
<BigRedS> I'm now in the habit of using screen and keeping an ssh session open to most of the hosts I'm likely to want to connect to
<dwatkins> or for some systems: alias b='export TERM=vt100 ; autossh -M 20000 -t dominic@example.com "screen -DR"'
<daubers> bigcalm: You use the unity quicklists thing
<daubers> http://castrojo.tumblr.com/post/4536294249/more-quicklists
<bigcalm> daubers: not using unity :)
<bigcalm> I need to actually get work done
<bigcalm> But yes, that is an option
<bigcalm> Ta
<daubers> bigcalm: I use it every day now with no problems :) You could try this appindicator http://www.gulecha.org/2011/05/19/sshlist-an-appindicatorunity-replacement-for-sshmenu/
<bigcalm> Can you call ssh and have it ask for a username rather than having to put it in the call to ssh?
<oimon> putty is also available for linux too
<diplo> bigcalm, I used to make shortcuts on desktop to gnome terminal with ssh info in the,
<Daviey> cjwatson uses putty as his linux terminal emulator.
<HazRPG> hey guys
<brobostigon> morning HazRPG :)
<HazRPG> brobostigon: morning :)
<oly> daubers, ukfsn do a month by month contract if thats of any use
<andylockran> howdy dudes and dudettes
 * andylockran quite likes OpsView
<davmor2> morning all
<livingdaylight> greetings
<oimon> novacut made the $25,000 goal then
 * popey starts the clock on seeing the code
<oimon> there are only 750 backers, which sounds like a rather niche project
<popey> many of them aren't even target audience
<popey> my comments to them were dismissed because I am apparently not an artist
<oimon> grow a beard and they might listen
<Daviey> popey: $ time bzr branch lp:novacut .. do i win? :)
<popey> oimon: i think that is exactly what they dont want
<davmor2> Daviey: looks like evolution stuff is creeping back into oneiric
<oimon> even if it's an arty shoreditch beard?
<oimon> and skinny jeans
<Daviey> davmor2: Well seems the Desktop team have recently done an update, but 'creeping' in?
<popey> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2011-July/000994.html   is interesting
<oimon> formulae is a better word than formulas
<livingdaylight> Hi, want to install adobe air on my x64bit system. But not compatible. Anyone know the workaround?
<AlanBell> formulÃ¦ is even better
<oimon> you probably just broke someone's irc client there :)
<andylockran> :)
<livingdaylight> popey, sorry to ask again. Have you still got those links handy for the short-cuts for unity bar? Need to bookmark them properly this time.
<andylockran> ã´
<andylockran> â â¡
<oimon> fancy pants
<popey> livingdaylight: uhm.
<oimon> why does KDE always look inviting from the screenshots but i feel a bit meh when i use it?
<popey> KDE always strikes me as looking like a really crap shareware app from about 1992
<Daviey> written in VB.
<oimon> windows 7?
<livingdaylight> uhm?
<BigRedS> windows7 still feels a lot like KDE3 to me
<popey> livingdaylight: go to askubuntu and search for unity faq
<livingdaylight> thank you
<BigRedS> but I know exactly what you mean oimon - I keep logging in to it, then about 20mins later think "why did I do that?"
<oimon> as for gnome..stock gnome looks lame but most people know how to customise. i used to customise kde3.5 but i don't know how to customise kde4.x
<BigRedS> I know how to customise it but I prefer it stock...
<BigRedS> the great thing about customising kde is there's about nine different ways to change each thing
<BigRedS> but only four of them have been tested, and only one is remembered between logins, but that one's not in the four that have been tested
<oimon> hehe
<oimon> anyone bought t-shirts from shirt.woot before?
<oimon> wondered how the size works out for you
<dwatkins> yeah, oimon
<oimon> i.e. if i'm a medium in the UK , how does their medium fit?
<dwatkins> I tend to get XL even though I'm actually probably an L, as I like baggy t-shirts, so I'm probably not the best person to advise. If you're buying a t-shirt for someone else, make sure you get the male/female bit right, though ;)
<oimon> are the tshirts thick cotton, or thin & flimsy?
<oimon> my ubuntu one is thin and flimsy :(
<dwatkins> fairly thick, but not hugely so
<dwatkins> I find it just right
<oimon> you sound like a happy customer
<oimon> there's a t-shirt they made once that i really want , but it's no longer for sale :(
<dwatkins> I am, my TARDIS/DeLorean t-shirt is probably my favourite.
<dwatkins> which one?
<dwatkins> From the Reckoning, I assume...
<oimon> http://shirt.woot.com/friends.aspx?k=16285
<dwatkins> I have a mouse/portal t-shirt which has thinner material than the TARDIS/DeLorean one, actually, not sure why.
<dwatkins> Still waiting for "Release the cuddlin'" to arrive for my girlfriend.
<dwatkins> hehe neat
<dwatkins> I had to explain how they use a combination of ideas in some of their t-shirts to someone who isn't so familiar with popular culture, that was difficult.
<dwatkins> "It's part A-Team, part Knight Rider, part Batman.... yeah, that's the A-Team bit..." took ages
<oimon> i keep hoping the hot dog one will get resurrected again in a derby
 * davmor2 prods czajkowski
<oimon> is there a reason why i can't format a 8gb usb stick to 1 single fat32 partition?
<oimon> gparted and friends are only formatting it to 2gb
<diplo> fat32 limited to 4gb
<BigRedS> there is a max size to fat32, but I thought it was bigger than 2gb
<oimon> diplo: the 4gb limit is a single file
<oimon> you should be able to format a partiton to 8gb
<diplo> you are quite right, really should go back to bed
<diplo> :)
<Daviey> wow popey, how many dongles do you need?
<davmor2> Daviey: you fool it's one for each day of the week ;)
<oimon> ah, i think it is because it thinks the partition is a GPT partition , whatever that is
<oimon> popey: how much are those cheap dongles?
<ikonia> directhex: re-ping
<directhex> re-pong
<ikonia> directhex: check your private messages
<andylockran> :)
<andylockran> Everyone happy?
 * directhex has 14 VMs offline, so is tense
<Daviey> andylockran: I imagine there are many people in the world not happy, so the answer to that is No. :)
<oimon> i'm doing better than i deserve :)
<andylockran> Daviey: are you happy?
<andylockran> Very long time since we last lunched together Daviey
<Daviey> andylockran: Yeah, your turn to pay next time IIRC.
<Daviey> andylockran: I'm pretty good!
<andylockran> Daviey: yeah.
<popey> oimon: http://popey.me/mWAVAH
<popey> 8 quid or so
<oimon> \o/
<oimon> work OOTB?
<popey> should do, realtek
<oimon> although my crusty old netgear thing has become less flaky since i moved a new PC and 11.04..hhmm
<andylockran> popey: looks kewl
<brobostigon> what would be good, is if the stuff i share on google reader, could me shared onto google+.
<mgdm> I thought it was meant to do that
<mgdm> would make sense
<brobostigon> it hasnt done it for me.
<brobostigon> i dont see any setting for it, in google reader either.
<daubers> Interesting... http://www.misco.co.uk/applications/searchtools/item-detailsInactive.asp?Sku=Q274679 <- Win7/XP dual boot
<popey> serial port!?
<gord> why would you need a win7/xp dual boot?
<popey> that looks like a rebadged revo 3700
<popey> http://www.ebuyer.com/product/236581
<daubers> Yeah, being touted as dual boot here www.misco.co.uk/content/student/index.htm but nothing about it on the link the image follows
<daubers> gord: Convince people to move to Win 7 without losing the Win XP familiarity?
<BigRedS> but if they don't want to lose teh XP familiarity they'd just not boot into 7, surely?
<daubers> BigRedS: I dunno. I'm not MS
<daubers> Or Acer for that matter :)
<BigRedS> haha
<oimon> 7 has XP compatibility mode too
<daubers> Just been informed I'm going to need Windows for the maths part of my OU stuff :(
<oimon> how come?
<oimon> only the statisticians in the maths dept use windows
<daubers> No idea, prolly using some weird maths package
<BigRedS> oimon: I spent a lot of last night finding that it doesn't really
<BigRedS> :/
<BigRedS> well, a couple of hours
<oimon> it worked for me to the extent that big boss gave me 30 mins to get a webcam working for a skype call, and the logitech webcam driver only supported for XP and older
<BigRedS> Ah, I ended up needing a specially-crafted binary for this flight sim
<BigRedS> flight sims are way more important than web cams
<oimon> of course :)
<BigRedS> though I turned out to be rubbish at flying afterwards. I spent a lot of the time going downwards very very quickly
<oimon> isn't it a bit boring to fly a jumbo jet in real time from haethrow to NY?
<BigRedS> yeah
<BigRedS> that's why I play combat flight sims :)
<oimon> i used to play chocks away on my archimedes...probably a bit before some people's time lol
<ging> i used to play that
<ging> rarely was able to actually shoot anything down
<oimon> needed to do the up down movement creating a kind of sine wave with your bullets
<directhex> i used a proper flight sim once
<directhex> and nobody died
<dwatkins> Did it use a big LCD/CRT based multi screen display, or a physical representation of the ground etc., directhex? I'm curious.
<directhex> dwatkins, very very old school multi-displays
<BigRedS> I had a brief go on a many-screen heli sim a while ago
<dwatkins> nifty
<BigRedS> i crashed repeatedly
<davmor2> daubers: try it wine first then if that fails look at installing it again then :)
<daubers> davmor2: I don't have to worry about that bit until January :)
<davmor2> daubers: have you had a quick look on google to see if there is any mention of linux and you ou math course? :)
<daubers> davmor2: Goolging gievs me this "MST121 means you have to use the Mathcad and OUStats packages. The Open University recommends a windows based computer"
<davmor2> daubers: so that's all it's for then :(
<davmor2> bit sucky
<daubers> davmor2: Sounds it. Never mind
<oimon> sounds like a headless RDP session to a windows VM
<daubers> Heh, or just reboot into the Win7 partition on my laptop :) Just have to resist the temptation to play Civ 5 will there
<daubers> s/will/while
<davmor2> daubers: that's easy install 0a.d on ubuntu and you'll forget all about it :)
<daubers> davmor2: Not seen that. Looks quite good
<dwatkins> My brother asked me to remotely setup their machine to run a VM so his oldest daughter can play Sim City 2000 - she was born in that year!
<daubers> dwatkins: I'd be more impressed if she was born _in_ Sim City
 * davmor2 guesses that daubers silence is cause he is too busy playing 0a.d :D
<dwatkins> haha, she doesn't have a green diamond above her head ;)
<dwatkins> (different sim, I know)
<oimon> sim city 3 & 4 were better
<dwatkins> I need to find a fast enough machine to try them on.
<dwatkins> I'm guessing they didn't port them to Linux.
<oimon> it used to be the only reason i kept a win xp partition
<oimon> after that it was the sims 2 for the mrs
<dwatkins> Roger that
<davmor2> dwatkins: I think 2000 was still a dos based game so you could try it in dosbox
<dwatkins> davmor2: it seems to require Windows, but I'll give it a go
<dwatkins> wow, yeah - the install directory cites DOS and Win 311, that'll make things a whole lot easier, thanks davmor2 :D
<dwatkins> now I just need to stop DOSbox from taking up all the CPU cycles... or is that just under Win 311 it does that....?
<davmor2> dwatkins: no guaranties it was just a thought being as it would of been made in 99 for win 98 :)
<dwatkins> yeah, I'd completely forgotten it had anything but Windows executables, davmor2. I've also been tidying up my games recently, and can add it to the list of DOSbox images :)
<dwatkins> There's a GUI for DOSbox on the Mac which is really handy, Boxer - makes it a whole lot easier to import and use disk images.
<shauno> I do like boxer.  smooth as hell
<davmor2> :)
<davmor2> dwatkins: glad to be of help :)
<bigcalm> I'm having a bad hair day. How do you show the collation information of a database in mysql?
<bigcalm> Sometime ago I recall holding down alt and using the mouse scroll wheel to change between desktops. Is such a feature still available?
<gord> bigcalm, i'm sure you can set it in ccsm
<gord> never heard of that being default ever before though (might be mistaken)
<bigcalm> Ta
<oimon> anyone know if it's at all possible to find a radio programme that was once on iplayer, but no longer publically available?
<popey> oimon: yes, contact the producer at the production company
<popey> they will often let you have a copy
<oimon> got to be worth a try
<gord> its a shame that the bbc don't just "open the archives" with regards to radio
<oimon> particularly as it regards a peel session song that is impossible to buy or obtain via any other means
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Michael Wood] Android development tools Linux quick ref - http://www.michaelwood.me.uk/wordpress/2011/07/28/android-development-on-linux-quick-ref/
<gord> oh well i imagine things get a little muddier for copyrighted works
<gord> i *may* have signed up for what is essentially, a japanese sweet version of graze.com - kinda exciting; http://www.candyjapan.com/
<dwatkins> oh my
<popey> that sounds awesome!
<popey> do they do referrals?
<dwatkins> I suspect if I mention this to my GF she will be signed-up quicker than you can say "Thanks, gord-san"
<gord> its just one guy i think :) does it as part of a "club" more than a big thing, so no referral system
<gord> http://blip.tv/youcanplaythis/i-love-candy-anpanman-grape-gummy-5414392 - is the kind of stuff you get
<dwatkins> seems quite a bit more expesive than Graze, but sounds like a great idea
<dwatkins> perhaps with the economies of scale the price will go down
<popey> its also international postage
<dwatkins> yeah, I guessed that was the main reason for the price
<dwatkins> anyhoo, hometime, toodleoo folks
<gord> i'm hoping its worth it for the enjoyment it'll bring bi-weekly :)
<gord> maybe i can start candyengland.com and send chewits to japan
<popey> there is an american sweets place near me
<popey> run by one of my wifes friends
<popey> http://www.americansweets.co.uk/
<Azelphur> japanese sweet graze :o
<Azelphur> so tempting
<bigcalm> Is SunJava any more usable than OpenJDK?
<DJones> gord: I hope you don't get sent anything like white sherbet, I can just image the consecuences of a leaking package of white powder being delivered to your door, closely followed by a couple of sniffer dogs
<gord> no officer, i pay this guy on the internet, i don't know him, its a guy, he sends me these packages from japan, i'm going to gaol aren't i? :(
<andylockran> :)
<andylockran> having a fun day
<bigcalm> I'm seeing "3D" peppered around an email I'm trying to debug. Seems to be after every =. %20 is a space, what's 3D?
<bigcalm> 3D is =
<bigcalm> This is quite confusing
<davmor2> bigcalm: it's cause 3D is the next big thing :D
<bigcalm> 3D is over-rated :P
<shauno> I've seen that before; is it now something to do with how they handle long lines?
<shauno> *not
<shauno> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quoted-printable#Quoted-printable_encoding
<shauno> they use =(hex) to put 8bit chars in a 7bit body; then =3D means a literal =  (the same as having to escape / with another /, so // = /)
<bigcalm> Aha
<bigcalm> That makes sense
<bigcalm> Some global end users are complaining that they are getting "weird" emails.
<bigcalm> Seems that their email clients aren't seeing a difference between Plain Text and HTML parts of the message and just showing the whole lot as Plain Text
<bigcalm> We recently moved the client's server from one host to another. This is really playing with my sanity this week
<shauno> I don't recall email ever being sane :/
<bigcalm> I wonder if some of the end users have email clients that can't cope with quoted-printable on plain text
 * bigcalm attempts to set 7bit.
<shauno> email tends to be either screwed up in ways you're used to; or screwed up in ways that are new to you.  it's never actually sensible
<BigRedS> showing the whole thing in plain text is the way it should be
<shauno> heh.  that's been a losing battle for a long time now :/
<bigcalm> Heh
<shauno> 7bit ascii is email's "native" tho.  as soon as you try to do anything remotely modern, it'll break for someone, somewhere
<bigcalm> BigRedS: and everybody should use OS software. Just not going to happen. Client demands feature X, client pays for feature X. Web dev eats for another month
<shauno> I tend to be happy as long as they do still include a text part.  luckily most html-only messages are spammy
<bigcalm> Aye. This client do put out plain and html parts
<bigcalm> Another client of ours just does HTML
<bigcalm> And they wonder why they have end users complaining of spam
<shauno> yeah.  that needs a spanking
<bigcalm> Budgets
<shauno> I believe spamassassin still has that as a red flag
<shauno> (I tend to think budgets is the wrong answer for that one; it just means they chose the wrong product.  if you buy a mailshot program that has an artificially high risk of landing in people's spam folders, you bought the wrong one)
<shauno> but that's just an opinionated-nerd rant :)
<bigcalm> Hehe, you have a fair point :)
<bigcalm> The client's project was built from scratch but another company which has since folded. I've been nursing it for a few years now
<bigcalm> So, they can have the proper features if they will pay for the time needed
<bigcalm> Going back to the other project, I've found why moving to a new host has messed with the plain-text body
<bigcalm> http://pear.php.net/manual/en/package.mail.mail-mime.mail-mime.php  ---
<bigcalm> $params['head_encoding'] - Type of encoding to use for the headers of the email. Default is "quoted-printable".
<bigcalm> $params['text_encoding'] - Type of encoding to use for the plain text part of the email. Default is "quoted-printable".
<shauno> so the new host has it's own defaults?
<bigcalm> Old host had an older version of Mail_Mime and possibly different settings
<bigcalm> I'm still digging
<shauno> completely off-topic, managed to shatter my phone last night.  not entirely sure what to do with it now
<bigcalm> Paper weight?
<bigcalm> Ouch, it's 5.55pm
<bigcalm> :'(
<shauno> trying to decide if I really want to fork out 100eur to replace the screen, when there's apparently a new one due out later this year (or early next)
<shauno> weighing off being a tightwad vs trying to use a shattered touchscreen for 6-9 months
<shauno> (or alternatively; whether we can fool the phone company into replacing it under the insurance my wife has on hers)
<directhex> insurers have the IMEI on record, no?
<directhex> to prevent fraud
<shauno> that's it.  I'd assume so, but not 100% sure
<shauno> just feel like an idiot paying 90 quid for a bit of glass
<shauno> (and also feeling like an idiot for the whole phone vs concrete fight in the first place)
<shauno> or I could just use it as an excuse to try some of these android toys until apple bring out a new one ;)
<AlanBell> what would be a good name for a podcast about free software in business?
<directhex> "the free software in business podcast"
<AlanBell> catchy, descriptive, I like it
<mgdm> I was thinking of the pun angle
<mgdm> "The Business Free Software Alliance"
<mgdm> which is maybe a little more than just a podcast, but hey
<davmor2> The Businoss podcast
<AlanBell> I was trying to get some words together that had the initials RTFM or something like that
<davmor2> AlanBell: ^
<AlanBell> reasonable davmor2, but suffers from the "OMG I can't read/pronounce that" problem that Ubuntu has for some people
<AlanBell> "Enterprise Class" is one option
<davmor2> AlanBell: Open For Business
<AlanBell> that was on my list too
<AlanBell> a googleable word or phrase would be nice
<davmor2> AlanBell: How about, Business Openers?
<jacobw> Free Software: Serious Business
<brobostigon> does seesmic needs need androids sync and or background data turned on, to automaticlly check for updates?
 * BigRedS just found himself in an argument about the colour of the enter key
<jacobw> Is it beige?
<BigRedS> no, it's purple
<BigRedS> I think
<BigRedS> but apparently I didn' twin
<AlanBell> jacobw: that is a good strapline
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Tony] Last gasp OggCamp tickets - http://tonywhitmore.co.uk/blog/2011/07/28/last-gasp-oggcamp-tickets/
<gord> ubuntu one got more awesome :) http://voices.canonical.com/ubuntuone/?p=1023
<Daviey> gord: But does it do versioned backups?
<Daviey> because who uses *that*?
<gord> ubuntu one is not a backup service ;)
<Daviey> The really neat thing is, that i can use it to spread out files on multiple machines incase i accidently delete it.
<Daviey> Oh, then if i delete it in one location...
<gord> i guess, the delete's are propagated but i think u1 just renames
<gord> but alterations of files can be very destructive
<bigcalm> sudo pear install Mail_Mime
<bigcalm> downloading Mail_Mime-1.8.1.tgz ...
<bigcalm> 1.8.1 is the latest version, but it doesn't seem to get installed
<Daviey> bigcalm: Does sudo apt-get install php-mail-mime not cut it?
<bigcalm> Humm, that's the problem with having multiple channels for installing things
<Daviey> well there are two types of channel.. the right one, and the wrong one.
<Daviey> :D
<bigcalm> What's wrong with PEAR (if it works)?
<bigcalm> PEAR will give you up to date libs while apt will give you the last packaged version
<bigcalm> Yeah...
<bigcalm> Setting up php-mail-mime (1.5.3-0.1) ...
 * bigcalm shrugs and wonders if it'll work
<Daviey> pear IMO dirties a system.
<bigcalm> Nope, didn't work. Too old a version
<bigcalm> Same way CPAN does?
<Daviey> yah
<Daviey> I see no reason to use cpan directly.
<Daviey> unless you just want to try something quick and dirty.
<Daviey> but in production, NFW :)
<bigcalm> A RackSpace server with RHE has up to date versions from PEAR, I'm trying to get my dev system to the same level
<bigcalm> Tis a little silly
<bigcalm> Now considering downgrading the lib version on the live server
<shauno> what could possibly go wrong ;)
<bigcalm> :'(
<AlanBell> try some ruby packages
<AlanBell> they won't work, but it will make you feel better about the PEAR ones
<dutchie> i managed to install a ruby gem without breaking anythin
<dutchie> g
<Daviey> then punch yourself in the face, it's just as rewarding.
<dutchie> i was quite pleased with that
 * Daviey pats dutchie.
<bigcalm> http://paste.ubuntu.com/653943/
<bigcalm> Help :(
<DJones> bigcalm: Don't know why, but that paste looks as though its just downloading and not installing
 * BigRedS concurs with DJones 
<BigRedS> I keep having trouble with pear. I've started downloading and building the things manually in the main
<DJones> bigcalm: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/3822373/pear-install-issue-downloads-but-doesnt-install
<Daviey> this further adds to my view about using pear for module management :)
<justinBUJITSUBRO> can anyone tell me where to got for russian grammer questions i am learning and i need help?
<BigRedS> I bet there's a stackexchange for that
<BigRedS> stackexchange is the new app
<justinBUJITSUBRO> ok ill ceck it ok
<BigRedS> http://area51.stackexchange.com/proposals/10848/russian-language-usage
<BigRedS> you need to vote for it or something I think
<BigRedS> but it's not actually there yet
<justinBUJITSUBRO> ok but do u know if it is like a chat ?
<BigRedS> hm?
<BigRedS> I don't understand the question
<justinBUJITSUBRO> sorry like quick responces
<justinBUJITSUBRO> down here in belize one must learn to make the most of he or her time on the net
<justinBUJITSUBRO> also thanks for helping me the other day
<BigRedS> ah, no problem. Stackexchange isn't a chat site though
<BigRedS> it's more a forum
<BigRedS> ish
<justinBUJITSUBRO> ah i see hey i want to upgrade my distro version but i dont whant to lose my files or have to back them up
<BigRedS> A normal upgrade wont touch your files
<BigRedS> it just upgrades the software
<justinBUJITSUBRO> i have come to understand that i have to w8 for the next lts
<BigRedS> backups are recommended, but no more than for anything else you might do
<BigRedS> nah, you can upgrade to non-lts
<BigRedS> well, Ubuntu lets you - whoever runs your computer or supports it might insist upon LTSs
<justinBUJITSUBRO> ok i just dont want to get left behind
<justinBUJITSUBRO> i think i like lts better personlly
<justinBUJITSUBRO> how do i do an upgreade
<justinBUJITSUBRO> thanks B.R.S bye
<BigRedS> the update manager should have a button for it
<BigRedS> but I'm not at a ubuntu machine at the minute so I can't say for sure
<BigRedS> it'll be on the ubuntu wiki I'd imagine
<justinBUJITSUBRO> ok cool man thank you very much
<justinBUJITSUBRO> bye
<BigRedS> no problem!
<Myrtti> writing an email after a day of ripping wallpaper and doing wood filler feels weird
<Myrtti> I didn't know I had the words in me
<brobostigon> new torchwood, :)
<oracology> brobostigon: excellent :)
<oracology> hi everyone, btw. enjoying some noodle soup this fine evening.
<brobostigon> bbc1 now
<shauno> gah.  fantastic.  came running down stairs, popped the calbe box on, and it told me it's doing a firmware upgrade & to leave it alone
<shauno> when did TV get this complicated :(
<daubers> lo
<BigRedS> g'morning
<mgdm> 'lo
 * daubers listens to Feist
<brobostigon> good ep of new torchwood,
<brobostigon> endof;
 * BigRedS asks spotify for some Feist
<daubers> BigRedS:  Snap :)
<mgdm> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9fciD_II7NI Feist as you've not seen them/her before
 * daubers moves computesr
<Myrtti> awwww
<Myrtti> oggcamp hotel is full :-(
<dwatkins> mgdm: I really like that version of the song :)
<Myrtti> this makes me sad
<dwatkins> mgdm: the (second) link in my tweet appears to be slightly less jittery than yours: https://twitter.com/#!/glymph/status/96510195504652288
 * dwatkins likes the last half second where she turns to the side in jubilation
<mgdm> mine was the first hit on Google, I didn't research it all that hard :)
<BigRedS> Aw sesame street! Awesome
<AlanBell> Myrtti: got a tent?
<brobostigon> good night everyone, sleep well.
<bigcalm> Good night brobostigon
<Myrtti> AlanBell: Im not going camping on me birfdae :-(
<AlanBell> but there could be cake!
<Myrtti> Ill be at oggcamp alright
<Myrtti> I just will not stay over in a tent.
<AlanBell> fair enough
<AlanBell> I will be in my own bed :)
<Myrtti> :-\
<AlanBell> some people are camping in my back garden
<ali1234> is there a way to open an xterm window such that the command running inside it will read from stdin of the xterm?
<ali1234> eg i want to do:
<BigRedS> Ah, AlanBell, I meant to email you about that :)
<BigRedS> Would it much trouble if I turned up on saturday morning?
<ali1234> cat file : xterm -exec 'hexdump -C'
<AlanBell> oh cool, the more the merrier
<ali1234> and have it work
<AlanBell> no problem BigRedS, send me an email and you will be added to the breakfast order :)
<BigRedS> AlanBell: ah, I'm an awkward vegetarian, too :)
<AlanBell> the type that doesn't even eat bacon?
<BigRedS> the sort that means eveyrone else gets more bacon
<BigRedS> :)
<AlanBell> sheesh, one of them :)
<BigRedS> the same. more sausages for you, too
<AlanBell> nom
<mattt> BigRedS: :(
<BigRedS> but, yeah, I get back from france at ~11pm on the friday. Not sure I'd get to yours much before 1am which seems plain daft
<AlanBell> yes, especially as we will all have been in the pub all evening
<BigRedS> yeah, and I'll have been in the back of a van since ~geneva...
<AlanBell> nice
<AlanBell> Myrtti: do you need any help finding a hotel or somewhere local?
<BigRedS> but any idea on what sort of times would be sane in the morning?
<mattt> any other interesting talks going on at oggcamp?  the page is a bit sparse right now
<AlanBell> being an unconference it will be sparse
<AlanBell> you can turn up and talk
 * AlanBell wonders what mattt will talk about
<mattt> cooking w/ a wok 101
<AlanBell> excellent
<AlanBell> I don't have a wok at the moment, I think induction compatible woks might be a bit expensive
<gord> huh, could induction stuff get hot enough to properly wok? i'm not very familiar with induction ovens at all
<mattt> i got a brilliant wok at http://www.loonfung.com/ the other week, cost Â£6
<AlanBell> induction is *fast*
<gord> i miss my old wok, should get a new one, been so long since i cooked some nice wok food
<AlanBell> we used to boil a kettle first if boiling stuff on gas, but the induction hob beats a kettle easily
<mattt> gord: do it!  they're fun to use, and don't require scrubbing :D
<AlanBell> I have a standalone double oven and 4 induction hobs, the total unit is rated at 52 amps
<AlanBell> had to get the kitchen rewired to get it in
<gord> induction does sound nice :)
<AlanBell> geeky and faster than gas
<gord> plus, you can say "now we are cooking with magnets"
<mattt> hehe
<mattt> never seen induction in action
<gord> not much to see :)
<AlanBell> apart from much leaping over to the hob to turn it down to stop things exploding
<Daviey> i bet having an induction cooker and hobs significantly reduces gas bill.
<AlanBell> transfers it to the electricity bill
<Daviey> well yes. :)
<gord> wonder what happens if you put a magnet on one
<shauno> it gets warm?
<gord> was thinking more, superhero origin story
<gord> i could be oven man
<mattt> hahaha
<AlanBell> sadly it cuts out if you try to do anything remotely interesting with it
#ubuntu-uk 2011-07-29
<Azelphur> haha, my server just went under quite a fun attack
<Azelphur> 10 guys all organized on mumble with a botnet behind them
<Azelphur> beat them all on 3 minutes and they moved on, scrubs :P
<ali1234> why do people attack your site?
<ali1234> is it because they suck at TF2?
<Azelphur> ali1234: all 10 of them decided to use aimbots and speedhacks
<Azelphur> so I did a mass ban targeting the lot of them all in one shot
<ali1234> how do you detect that stuff?
<Azelphur> player reports and manual checking
<ali1234> why hasn't someone invented an aimbot that plays badly when you're already winning?
<Azelphur> haha
<Azelphur> afterwards they used their botnet to target my SourceIRC relay
<Azelphur> which just relayed their attack and didn't choke in the slightest, which was rather hilarious.
<Azelphur> banned the entire botnet in one shot, so they came after me in a query, qlined the lot of them
<ali1234> do peopl ejust go nuts, when they are using abot?
<Azelphur> and they ran off with their tails behind their legs
<ali1234> a like, steamroller everyone?
<Azelphur> I promptly went to their mumble and laughed at them for extra victory.
<Azelphur> ali1234: yea
<Azelphur> I'm tempted to run the SQL denial of service attack on their mumble and shut down their C&C
<Azelphur> but then that would make me bad too :(
<ali1234> i should probably try to play TF2 since i downloaded it now it's free
<Azelphur> :)
<ali1234> i think steam is broken
<ali1234> my install that is
<Azelphur> hehe
<ali1234> oh joy an update
<ali1234> seems like everyone has a botnet these days
<ali1234> is it really that easy?
<Azelphur> ali1234: sure
<ali1234> well i got to the server list and then it crashed
<Azelphur> haha
<ali1234> oh, tag search is just really slow
<ali1234> it searches every time you type a letter
<ali1234> searching takes 10 seconds
<Azelphur> haha
<ali1234> hats.....
<Azelphur> hats everywhere....
<ali1234> this is better than i expected
<ali1234> ...but then it crashed
<Myrtti> AlanBell:
<Myrtti> AlanBell: no, but thanks for the offer
<ball> What's a simple arcade game that I can use to test a control pad?
<shauno> centipede :)
<justinBUJITSUBRO> good night every  one
<DJones> Morning all
<diplo> Morning all
<BigRedS> g'morning!
<popey> morning all
<Apacheuk> morning everyone
<bigcalm> Morning peeps :)
<BigRedS> g'morning!
 * BigRedS slopes off for some coffee
<bigcalm> Recomendations for a iTunes replacement in Ubuntu? I only use it for audio and video podcasts
<oimon> gpodder?
<oimon> it's a single task app that does its job well
<BigRedS> yeah, I like gpodder for podcasts
<bigcalm> Ta, I'll take a look
<GreenDance> Hi
<popey> hello
<GreenDance> :)
<GreenDance> *waves*
<GreenDance> I got a second hand server (recycled), it had Windows 2008 Server installed, wiped it off and Installed Ubuntu Server LTS :D
<bigcalm> \o/
<xapel> Is there a way to sync gmail contacts with thunderbird? If not, will there be one by the time Oneiric is released?
<oimon> xapel: i think there is an add-on called zandu
<oimon> zindus
<GreenDance> popey: single core, 2.4 gb cpu, 2 gb ram, 60 gb hdd, :)
<bigcalm> Struggling to remember what I was subscribed to in iTunes. I've remembered UUPC, CarPool and David Mitchell's Soap Box
<oimon> linux action show?
<bigcalm> Nope
<oimon> gardeners world? ant farmer weekly
<bigcalm> Ah, The Friday Night Comedy Podcast
<bigcalm> Solid Steel as well
<popey> http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/Podcasts
<bigcalm> Humm, no rss feed for solidsteel
<GreenDance> for a remote server, is there a linux command to say how much memory is installed in a server, e.g. 512mb
<DJones> GreenDance: If you run Top, it'll tell you how much memory there is on about the 3rd line next to the MEM heading
<popey> or cat /proc/meminfo
<GreenDance> DJones top displays in K not mb/gb
<popey> why does that matter?
<popey> free -g
<GreenDance> easier to read?
<popey> or indeed free -m
<GreenDance> thanks
<gord> Ng, hey hey, having fun times with terminator, so i went into the background options to adjust the transparency of my terminal . but for some reason the slider was locked at 0.0, now my entire terminal is 100% transparent and i can't see anything :)
<dwatkins> Clearly it's adapting to take out its revenge on you, gord - check for red LEDs and signs of time travel.
<gord> ended up finding and editing the config file :)
<oimon> good news about ubuntu one..shame it's going really slowly now though :(
<oimon> by slowly i mean not working :P
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Kwabena Aning] MySQL and Scala  Simple selects - http://blog.kaning.co.uk/archives/298
<Apacheuk> oimon: whats the new re UbuntuOne?
<oimon> basic users now get 5GB of storage, plus other news
<Apacheuk> oimon: do you have a link handy to a press release?
<oimon> http://voices.canonical.com/ubuntuone/?p=1023
<oimon> they are also on twitter http://twitter.com/#!/ubuntuone
<oimon> 1 million U1 users is really good
<Apacheuk> oimon: cheers, I do follow them on twitter, but it must have got lost in the normal avalanche
<bigcalm> I still haven't used all of my dropbox space and it's available on every platform
<bigcalm> Ho hum
<oimon> my file upload is currently stuck though :(
 * popey grumbles that he still cant use U1
<oimon> popey: i hear the windows version is about to get some love
<popey> still no proxy support
<AlanBell> use tsocks maybe
<davmor2> popey: tunnel out of the proxy ;)
<popey> Uh, no.
<popey> file sync agent in the background is one of those things that should just sit there and not have to be dicked about with to make it work
<popey> also, at work I am on Windows
<AlanBell> the client is open source isn't it?
<diplo> yeah
<popey> yes
<AlanBell> got a bug?
<popey> yes
<popey> bug 633280
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 633280 in Ubuntu Single Sign On Client "Support proxy" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/633280
<diplo> I found windows client raped my cpu
<diplo> when it tried syncing
<diplo> I manually sync now
<popey> hmm, thats one of them
<gord> the windows client worked okay for me, would like it to sync my folders too though
<popey> bug 387308
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 387308 in Ubuntu One Client "HTTPS Proxy Support for file sync" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/387308
<popey> thats the main one
<popey> with a bazillion duplicates
<oimon> who do you have to buy a beer for to get that fixed i wonder
<popey> i love the most recent comment
<popey> its a triple whammy of proprietaryness
<popey> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntuone-client/+bug/387308/comments/132
<oimon> and trolling :P
<popey> * Sent from iphone (check)
<popey> * Sent from gmail (check)
<popey> * Recommend dropbox (check)
<oimon> it's got a lot of votes, that bug
<popey> fancy that
<popey> this is why I keep suggesting that FLOSS developers should spend a day/week/month/year behind a proxy
<popey> so they can see what their app is like for normal people
<oimon> since it is a commercial effort, they should fix it even more
<gord> i wouldn't know ow to set up a proxy :)
<gord> how*
<gord> i hate my keyboard...
<oimon> gord, it's easy, just turn off direct http access and you'll soon learn :)
<oimon> except you'll have to rely on man pages :)
<gord> its not a bad idea, i'd like to set it up but i just don't know how, or really have the time/will to sit and learn the linux user way (thrown on to google, have to wade through a billion pages of bad advice, learn the proper way a year later)
<oimon> that bug seems typical of those ones where all the users are all RAWR about it, and no dev 'owns' the bug
<oimon> there used to be lots of gwibber bugs like that :)
<AlanBell> it is a bit non-trivial, but the merge proposal looks reasonable to me and only needs a tiny tweak to get approved
<AlanBell> https://code.launchpad.net/~chipaca/ubuntuone-client/very-basic-proxy-support-for-stable-1-4/+merge/39910
<popey> I have actually played with the source to test that code and couldn't get it working fully
<popey> with the latest version of U1
<Laney> doesn't use libproxy?
<AlanBell> how does one use libproxy Laney, got an example?
<Laney> https://code.google.com/p/libproxy/wiki/HowTo :-)
<AlanBell> it is going to be 10 lines of code or so to fix it
<Laney> I don't know anything about U1, but libproxy is The Proxy Solution
 * popey wonders if AlanBell has signed the Canonical Contributor Agreement
<AlanBell> nope
<popey> alan@wopr:~/Development/u1/ubuntuone-client-1.6.2$ head HACKING
<popey> Ubuntu One requires acceptance of the Canonical Contributor Agreement. You
<popey> will need to follow the instructions at:
<AlanBell> yeah, fine
<Laney> you mean contributing code back to upstream requires [...]
<AlanBell> all going Harmony soon anyway I guess
<AlanBell> not sure that libproxy is the right thing here as the ProxyTunnelFactory thing is part of U1 anyway
<Laney> aha, it already has proxy support?
<popey> i suspect not
<popey> i suspect that is talking about the proxying at the server end
<oimon> if somebody estimated how much extra revenue canonical  would gain from getting this feature working, it might stimulate a fix :)
<hoover> hi folks
<Ng> gord: that doesn't sound good! oneiric?
<gord> Ng, yup
<Ng> gord: perhaps vte changed something - if you run it from a terminal (hah) does it output any ugly errors?
<gord> Ng, only complains about not being able to bind a key combo
<Ng> bah
<gord> Ng, oh wait, opening the config errors out a bit more
<popey> is that a gconf -> gsettings thing?
<Ng> we don't use gconf anymore
<gord> Ng, http://paste.ubuntu.com/654415/ seems relevant
<Ng> aha, yes
<Ng> great, more version specific code paths :(
<bigcalm> Is there an application that will allow me to see how a blackberry would display emails without having the actual device?
<hoover> bigcalm: http://patorjk.com/software/taag/
<hoover> ;-)
<Bomster> Hi all
<dogmatic69> o/
<Bomster> Came to ask an off-topic question
<Bomster> Can anyone reccomend a good ISP?
<Bomster> ?
<popey> hi Bomster
<popey> you in the UK?
<Bomster> Hey man
<Bomster> Yeah
<dogmatic69> Bomster: http://mailman.lug.org.uk/pipermail/phpwm/2011-July/subject.html
<popey> are you in a cabled area or not?
<Bomster> Ermm.
<Bomster> I live in a small town, so I guess not
<popey> you can probably find out from virgin media website
<popey> samknows is a good website for finding out what is available in your area
 * popey has to go and reboot, back in a bit
<Bomster> I'm not cabled no
<gord> be have been good for me, ADSL isp, good quality, no traffic shaping, no limits, they even have an irc channel on freenode
<Bomster> I'm a small exchange pleb.
<Bomster> what is their channel?
<hoover> cheers all
<hoover> have a nice weekend
<Bomster> see ya
<gord> ah its not on freenode, quakenet, http://irc.beusergroup.co.uk:8080/?channels=Be
<oimon> trying out knoppix for the first time in ages, interesting how the kde4 is themed to look a lot like the 3.5 version
<gord> heh, found my old dell mini10v. damn that thing was heavy but so cute
<oimon> apple has more $$ than the USA: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-14340470
<AlanBell> the back of my sofa has more money than the USA
<ali1234> what's this multiarch stuff about?
<ali1234> what's the difference between multiarch and the way it works now in ubuntu?
<shauno> you have linkage?
<oimon> http://www.debian.org/News/2011/20110726b
<Daviey> ali1234: You can run i386 apps on amd64.
<Daviey> and more such stuff.
<awilkins> They are using my street to train guide dogs
<shauno> you kinda already can, but "and in the future will even allow live migrations from 32-bit to 64-bit systems." would be a big deal
<ali1234> but i can already do that...
<awilkins> Constant "good girl!" coming through the window
<ali1234> i was looking for a slightly more technical explanation :)
<oimon> there's a talk on it: http://penta.debconf.org/dc11_schedule/events/747.en.html
<awilkins> http://wiki.debian.org/Multiarch/TheCaseForMultiarch
<ali1234> i've read that too :)
<ali1234> watching the talk now...
<oimon> there's slides too :)
<shauno> I'd be curious if it comes anywhere close to multiarch in osx.  (puts fanboy cape on) it kinda makes x86_64 support in linux look outright awkward
<BigRedS> doesnt osx's multiarch come from some handy side-effect of the structure of the kernel?
<gord> is there really that much 32bit stuff installed on a 64bit machine?
<shauno> I believe so, yeah. it lets them put multiple blobs in the same binary
<oimon> ia32-libs [is now] the biggest source package in Debian. -Tollef Fog Heen
<shauno> the header for the executable (or library) lets them point different arch to different offsets, so you can stick ppc, i386, and x86_64 in the same binary. and wherever you run it, it'll use the most appropriate offset
<shauno> which is really nice in practice.  if I copy something from my laptop to my wife's, it'll run on her in 32bit.  if I put my whole harddrive in hers, the whole OS will run in 32bit.  it's completely transparent
<gord> doesn't sound transparent, sounds bleeding complicated ;)
<ali1234> ok... i think i understand this
<shauno> well, by transparent, I mean she'll never notice it's there
<oimon> surely means big binaries
<ali1234> the old way, you have the standard arch packages, plus you have a package for "32bit <package> on 64 bit arch" eg ia32-libs
<ali1234> with multiarch you can just install the same packages but from different arch, side by side
<shauno> by complicated, I think of things like ubuntu.com/download calling 32-bit 'recommended' for desktops, and 64-bit 'recommended' for servers. being that most my of servers are virtualised, I wouldn't agree with either of those recommendations
<ali1234> and the actual runtime execution works the same way
<shauno> if they could make a base system that's essentially agnostic, and pick the right packages to install on top of it, that choice would disappear, and let it just 'get it right' itself
<AlanBell> any reason not to run 64 bit virtualised servers shauno?
<AlanBell> I run 64bit everywhere because it is twice as good ;)
<oimon> the only reason i can think of is the need to run certain 32-bit proprietary software
<AlanBell> like what?
<ali1234> i have a virtual server with a 64 bit root and a 32 bit chroot which is also symlinked to lib32
<gord> AlanBell, no, its 32 more good!
<shauno> I don't actually know the reason, but last I heard, bitfolk only support 32bit guests
<ali1234> (actually, it's 2^32 times as good)
<BigRedS> AlanBell: only that not all hosts support 64-bit guests
<BigRedS> well, that used to be the case. I can't think of any now but I've not been paying attention
<shauno> https://tools.bitfolk.com/redmine/issues/27    that's pretty much all I know on the issue :)
<shauno> I'm not even clear whether that means I can't have a 64bit guest, or that they don't provide 64bit images
<oimon> i use redmine too :)
<BigRedS> shauno: it's just that they don't support it
<BigRedS> the main problem appears to be that they never have, and they've never started, so they still don't :)
<popey> shauno: join #bitfolk on irc.blitzed.org and ask them?
<shauno> BigRedS, yeah, I get that much.  but not sure if it's hardware support, software support, or wetware
<BigRedS> shauno: wetware by the looks of it
<shauno> but I do agree with them that I don't see a real benefit for 64 on a <1Gb VM
<shauno> (besides needed to move time to a 64bit int sometime in the next 30 years ;)
<popey> \o/ Y2K38 day!
<shauno> it is an interesting question tho, and one that leads me to wonder why 64 isn't recommended for desktops if it's that simple ;)
<awilkins> Inertia, I suspect
<awilkins> And wireless drivers
<awilkins> For things which are stuck with wrapped 32-bit windows drivers
<shauno> the main culprit I've been aware of is adobe never being quite clear on whether flash is going to be x86_64 or not (they seem to change their mind every 2 weeks)
<awilkins> The 64-bit version of flash seems fine now
<awilkins> And mainstream - although the alphas have worked well for me for a long while too
<BigRedS> I think it's mostly that a few years ago there was a reasonable chance that any given PC didn't have a 64-bit processor. That's less true now
<BigRedS> but most people wont notice the difference anwyay
<awilkins> One would think the 64-bit version of Flash was more secure just because the pointer boundaries are different :-)
<shauno> I try not to put secure and flash in the same sentence :)
<awilkins> Yeah, few people want more than 4GB in a process
<awilkins> THe kernel supports PAE out of the box, so they will be able to use their extended RAM
<awilkins> It's only a concern for nutcases like me who need to be able to allocate 5GB of heap space to a Java program
<oimon> funny that the vps provider doesn't want 64 bit for the same reason why i wouldn't install a 32bit server
<awilkins> And media mavens who want that extra performance
<shauno> just saying I can see the use for multiarch, if you can make this the system's problem rather than the user's problem
<shauno> I know for most my family, if you asked them how many bits their computer was, they'd either have no idea at all.  or just start counting the bits they can see
<oimon> to be fair i don't notice any difference
<oimon> in performance
<oimon> but from sysadmin POV i prefer less "fragmentation"
<shauno> I've managed to benchmark a repeatable 1% gain in whatever metric it is they invented.  which I wouldn't call noticable at all
<oimon> some maths packages get a much better perf gain, but that is not average desktop use
<oimon> when flash performs much better my ears would prick up
<shauno> but something like skype only providing 64bit builds wouldn't be insane in the mid-near future.  and telling everyone you 'recommended' a 32bit OS to they need to reinstall to update skype, is going to be messy
<awilkins> esp since MS bought Skype
<oimon> yeah, hopefully they would be happy using the same version of skype until the next LTS
<awilkins> "Oh, you want Skype? Better upgrade to a version of Windows that has a decent 64 bit version then. Oh, wait, that doesn't include XP? Never mind, eh?"
<shauno> awilkins, not bashing msft for it at all, skype's just an interesting example because linux has always felt like it received minimum effort from them (but it's still highly desirable amongst end-users)
<BigRedS> oimon: we've a bunch of x86 and a slightly smaller bunch of amd64 machines here, most of the time I don't reall know which I'm on at any given time. The difference is quite nominal from a sysadmin POV IME
<awilkins> shauno, Skype has the dubious pleasure of being one of two pieces of software I pay for (for SkypeOut credit, not the client) on Linux
<shauno> BigRedS, I'd assume he means stuff like having to keep different install images, etc.  double the disk space if you keep a local apt cache, etc
<oimon> however i'm about to roll out RH6.1 to desktops running i5 processors..need to decide on 32 or 64 for the staff/users
<shauno> not the systems themselves, but the administrivia of having to double up on everything
<awilkins> shauno, In both cases, the applications I pay for have open-source analogs, they just don't do the job as well as the payware
<BigRedS> ah yeah. we're an apt mirror so that's not an issue - our apt-cache also has MIPS and what on it :)
<oimon> i setup a multiboot usb stick...guess what the only thing that fails is? UBCD4WIN
<oimon> all other are linux distros
<shauno> I've been trying to do something similar lately.  except apple's EFI implementation makes it rather murderous :)
<shauno> finally managed to get grub-efi to boot loopback isos (except you lose the console mid-boot) and apple's hardware test (which also explodes mid-boot).  can never tell if I'm making progress, or digging the hole deeper
<shauno> if I can get loopback to work without the screen disappearing, I'll finally be able to install natty natively :)
<Bomster> Ahh, been spending all day trying to find a good ISP deal, and at the end of all of it, think I'ma have to go for Plusnet. Arghhhh.
<AlanBell> Bomster: I have plusnet FTTC being installed next week
<Bomster> Lucky f****r.
<Bomster> Geek envy.
<AlanBell> they seem quite good on the phone, didn't blink when I said I was using Linux, static IP address was no problem
<BigRedS> Is there a way to programatically interfere with screen?
<BigRedS> I want to, from within a screen session, rename it
<BigRedS> well, rename the, er, screen. not the session. Equivalent of ctr-A,shift-a
<ali1234> can be done with a screenrc and connecting to the existing session
<Bomster> AlanBell where do you live then? Not specifiacally
<Bomster> The question is more, why are you getting FTTC?
<Bomster> TTTT
<AlanBell> surrey
<BigRedS> tea to the table?
<Bomster> lol
<Bomster> I live in East Anglia, and there is virtually no FTTC here.
<Bomster> like 3 or 4 exchanges in the whole area, which is terrible considering it consists of two of the largest counties in the country.
<gord> there is FTTC here, but i'm waiting for Be to offer a service
<BigRedS> they're large counties preciesly because they are (or maybe were) sparsely populated
<gord> everyone else has been too expensive or bandwidth limited
<BigRedS> I've no idea how much of my internets is fibre or copper. It's Be and quite quick, though.
<Bomster> ADSL
<gord> BigRedS, if its Be then its copper :)
<BigRedS> ah, I like copper
<gord> Be are the fastest copper i'v had though so thats nice
<Bomster> There is cable, copper and fibre right.
<BigRedS> yeah, though cable is copper
<gord> also wimax
<gord> we have bt wifi in this area, its crap
<Bomster> I can't get BE. My exhange isn't even ADSL2 let alone LLU enabled.
<gord> had to use it for a week before my adsl got setup =\
<Bomster> WiMax suxks,
<BigRedS> cable, phone and fibre I suppose. But when people say 'copper' they normally mean phoen copper not telly copper
<Bomster> 8MB maximum.. great!
<gord> i get 3mbit ADSL here thanks :P
<Bomster> lol
<gord> the wifi was about half a mbit
<Bomster> solid 300kb/s?
<gord> 3mbit is not 300kb/s
<Bomster> it normally converts like that when it comes to download speeds though
<Bomster> 10%.
<gord> well no, its 12% + overhead + rand()
<Bomster> But I know 3MBpsâ 300kb/s
<Bomster> 10% rougle then
<Bomster> *roughly :)
 * DJones looked at that and wonder why south african currency came into the calculation
<Bomster> lol
<gord> fibre would be niiice though, hopefully once more of the country has fibre we can get some higher quality services
<Bomster> Fibre expected in East Anglia by 2035
<Bomster> lol
<Bomster> Oh well, atleast we have 4G on the way by 2020
<Bomster> Faceplam.
<Bomster> *Facepalm.
<DJones> Bomster: Sounds like you're asking for everything, ultrafast broadband, good prices etc, be satisfied with what you've got, electricity and carrier pidgeons, I can think of a few places that would be happy with that :)
<Bomster> DJones Yeah agreed, I'm having a moany day.
<DJones> I get those as well
<Bomster> Would just be nice to have what alot of other contries in the EU.
<Bomster> and in the Stated
<Bomster> can't help but feel we are constantly lagging behind with many things, not just technology.
<BigRedS> we do, as a country, have that
<BigRedS> jsut not everywhere
<BigRedS> same as, well, most countries
<Bomster> like with electric cars as an example..
<BigRedS> there's a lot of horrific internet in the us
<Bomster> Yeah, I have heard horror stories.
<Bomster> lol
<Bomster> But us compared to Germany, Sweeden, Denmark and even France.. were far behind.
<Bomster> *we're
<Bomster> Anyway, like you said DJones, we really should be greatful. And if I saw someone else writing what I'm writing I would they there were a douche.
<Bomster>   /rant
<DJones> Heh
<gord> i'm not grateful at all :P
<Bomster> Well, you're on 3MB
<Bomster> lol
<Bomster> You could get a better connection in a 3rd world country..
<DJones> Is this the worlds ugliest ebook reader/tablet/...? http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/41306/binatone-readme-mobile-android-device
<oimon> no, just the desktop wallpaper
<DJones> And there was me thinking that was the screen resolution, a nice blocky 64x48 pixels :)
<oimon> i think thats an adnroid live wallpaper
<BigRedS> ls
<BigRedS> oop
<DJones> I'd have laughed in somebody had accidentally pasted the response to LS in the channel then
<BigRedS> haha
<oimon> i was tempted
<bigcalm> Is NFS the network file system of choice between 2 linux machines? I have been using samba as I used to have windows on this workstation. I think that CIFS has become a bottle neck while using Eclipse on remote files.
<BigRedS> It's the fs of *my* choice
<BigRedS> 'cause I'm lazy and it Just Works
<oimon> are you sure that the protocol is the bottleneck?
<BigRedS> it doesn't, by default, have any of the security of CIFS
<BigRedS> Oh, I didn't get that far
<DJones> Same here, I use nfs at home because all the machines there use linux and as BigRedS said, it just works
<bigcalm> oimon: running top on the server, each time I press a key in the eclipse editor, smb appears at the top of top
<bigcalm> At the begining of the day, it's fine. By late afternoon, it becomes sluggish and using Eclipse is very difficult
<oimon> a bit like my typical day
<BigRedS> bigcalm: that just means that smb is doing more than anything else
<BigRedS> on that machine
<BigRedS> not that it's the bottleneck
<bigcalm> Maybe PDT can't cope with this project
<bigcalm> Still haven't found a better IDE in linu
<bigcalm> x
<BigRedS> vim!
<gord> BigRedS, for C++ stuff, kdevelop is really very good. it has a vim mode too which is useful for those of us who are used to vim
<BigRedS> ooh. that's long been my barrier to using an ide
<BigRedS> leaving ':w's all over the place
<bigcalm> :D
<gord> ah i meant to highlight bigcalm, you guys couldn't use a less colliding nick huh? ;)
<gord> y'know what happens when you go<tab> you get gord! no substitutes!
<bigcalm> :P
<bigcalm> I think that we enjoy the confusion ;)
<davmor2> AlanBell: you still after a name for your podcast or did you decide on one?
<AlanBell> still after one
<davmor2> AlanBell: Opening your business that should be googleable
<AlanBell> um not really
<AlanBell> by which I mean I want a realistic prospect of being at the top of the google search results for the name
<MartijnVdS> "ABCast"
<MartijnVdS> and that's bug #3 in 15 minutes
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 3 in Launchpad itself "Custom information for each translation team" [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/3
<MartijnVdS> all crashers
<MartijnVdS> not quite, lubotu3
<MartijnVdS> 4
<Bomster> Sorry for being so off topic all day, but can anyone reccomend a good value wireless router?
<MartijnVdS> Bomster: any special features required?
<Bomster> Wireless N, but not a must.
<Bomster> Not much else
<MartijnVdS> If you want future-proof, go for concurrent dual-band N (2.4 and 5GHz at the same time) -- it's faster and "newest"
<Bomster> How much am I going to have to spend?
<MartijnVdS> gigabit? 100mbit?
<MartijnVdS> go for "sitecom", "sweex" or something like that, those are cheap (but good) brands
<MartijnVdS> even tp-link would work if you can find a device that does what you want
<Bomster> http://is.gd/bkkc3P
<Bomster> what you think of that ^
<MartijnVdS> do you need the ADSL2+ modem bit?
<Bomster> Also, if its wireless N, can I still connect my phone?
<Bomster> No, just ADSL
<MartijnVdS> so it needs to be a DSL modem, that's important ;)
<Bomster> [17:53:49] <Bomster> Also, if its wireless N, can I still connect my phone?
<MartijnVdS> Bomster: if you want features, try this: http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B004EBGQYU
<AlanBell> wireless G devices can connect to N routers
<Bomster> Okay
<MartijnVdS> Bomster: you can connect analog, ISDN, SIP or wireless DECT phones to that :)
<Bomster> Little over my price point
<MartijnVdS> Bomster: that's the top-of-the-line model
<shauno> the only problem I run into with phones, is that if I set to 5GHz only, our phones can't connect to it
<Bomster> I'm only 19, just moved into my first flat so value is my main aim
<MartijnVdS> shauno: hence the concurrent dualband suggestion
<shauno> right
<MartijnVdS> shauno: 2.4 AND 5 ghz, not OR
<Bomster> kk
<Bomster> Want to spend <Â£50
<Bomster> As that's how much Plusnet charge for their router
<shauno> I mostly like 5GHz because I have zero contention with my neighbours there :)  but 2.4 is a must, so the phones don't sit on 3g at home
<AlanBell> they charged me Â£4.95
<Bomster> Yeah, but I don't want a 12 month contract
<Bomster> So they charge Â£50
<AlanBell> oh, ok
<Bomster> What you guys think about this - http://www.yoyotech.co.uk/item-detail.php?products_id=4373949
<Bomster> Thamks alot for all the help everyone btw
<MartijnVdS> belkin is good
<MartijnVdS> usually
<Bomster> What does the 5Ghz thing do?
<Bomster> just faster?
<MartijnVdS> Bomster: It's a different frequency band
<gord> just fyi, i recently threw away a wireless N belkin router because its firmware was the worst firmware i have seen in my life
<gord> i do not recommend, especially the cheeper ones
<MartijnVdS> Bomster: which means less interference from "old" (b/g) devices
<MartijnVdS> OK, the TP-Link one is better then
<gord> i replaced it with this, which has so far been just wonderful http://www.ebuyer.com/176084-netgear-wireless-n-dual-band-adsl-modem-router-dgnd3300-100uks
 * MartijnVdS stays with his old crappy modem for a few more months
<MartijnVdS> 500/500 fibre is coming :)
<MartijnVdS> (yes thats 500/500 mbit with no usage caps)
<Bomster> back - sorry was on the phone to Plusnet
<Bomster> Â£102 is just way out of my price bracket unfortunatley
<Bomster> I could maybe fo to Â£60
<Bomster> I've already got to pay Â£50 instalation fee
<Bomster> Â£25 so not to have a contract
<MartijnVdS> doesn't installation come with a modem?
<Bomster> No
<Bomster> Installation fee is for my line
<Bomster> I've only just moved in to this place
<shauno> no freebies without a contract. otherwise they're out of pocket if you cancel in a couple of months time
<Bomster> yeah of course
<shauno> (fwiw, I don't find a contract on my isp to be such a bad thing.  I have a 12 month lease on the place, so having a 12month minimum on internets works for me)
<Bomster> yeah, my lease is 6 months
<Bomster> I plan on moving in 8 maybe
<Bomster> otherwise I would just go for contract
<shauno> ah, gotcha
<MartijnVdS> Bomster: I'd go for the TP-Link one you linked earlier
<Bomster> Cheers
<Bomster> AlanBell - what is the router that you got from Plusnet like?
<AlanBell> small, black, has a yellow wire
<Bomster> I have a Netgear DG834GT here that a friend gave to me
<AlanBell> it is a Netgear WNR1000 v3. Not plugged it in yet, it only arrived this morning
<Bomster> Thats wireless N?
<MartijnVdS> Bomster: That's the 3rd generation of Wifi/wireless ethernet
<AlanBell> think I am going to have to do some electrical engineering to add a new power socket near the front door
<AlanBell> wireless N, yes
<MartijnVdS> Bomster: first, there were A (5 GHz, 54 Mbit) and B (2.4GHz, 11 Mbit), then G came (upgrade to B, 54 MBit)
<Bomster> so, its G?
<MartijnVdS> Bomster: then N came, which is up to 450 MBit (150MBit per antenna), on either (or both) 2.4 or 5GHz
<Bomster> I see
<MartijnVdS> Bomster: so N is an upgrade to both A and G
<Bomster> yeah I get that
<Bomster> N is the best
<Bomster> They person on the Plusnet chat said - Thomson Speed Touch 585v 7
<Bomster> that is what I will get
<MartijnVdS> thomson.. *shudder*
<Bomster> Not the Netgear WNR1000 v3
 * MartijnVdS has had 2 Thomsons, never again
<AlanBell> yeah, mine isn't an ADSL modem
<Bomster> oh yeah.. GTTC
<Bomster> *FTTC
<AlanBell> there will be another fibre to the cabinet modem that plugs into this router's WAN port
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: VDSL?
<AlanBell> fibre to the cabinet, I don't have the clever bit yet, just an ethernet/wireless router
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: so you get plain ethernet into your house, from the cabinet?
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: because in .nl FTTC means VDSL2 :)
<Bomster> AlanBell are you getting this fibre for free?
<Bomster> like are they using you as a guinie pig?
<AlanBell> MartijnVdS: no idea, they replace the BT master socket where the telephone comes in
<AlanBell> Bomster: nope, not free
<Bomster> How much are they charging?
<AlanBell> Â£16.49 per month
<Bomster> thats cheap
<AlanBell> Â£50 setup, Â£5 to set up a static IP address, Â£4.95 P&P for the router I got today
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: it's VDSL, according to internets :)
<AlanBell> must be true then :)
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: everything in the internets is true, you know that :)
<Bomster> AlanBell, did they offer that to you then? Not on website I presume as FTTC is being trialed by them?
<Bomster> Handy that you get a static IP in there too
<MartijnVdS> IPv6 would be even cooler to get
 * mattt sings rebecca black's 'friday'
<AlanBell> Bomster: yeah, they wrote to me, but it is the same deal on their website I think
<AlanBell> if you have a postcode that the checker likes
<MartijnVdS> mattt: There's also "Friday Night" by Lily Allen, if you want bad music ;)
<mattt> MartijnVdS: MartijnVdS that's remotely listenable at least :)
<bigcalm> nfs help please? :) http://paste.ubuntu.com/654639/
<Bomster> AlanBell, what is your Plusnet username
<Bomster> I'm now signing yp
<Bomster> and I can reccomend someone
<Bomster> MartijnVdS, if your ISP offers IPv6, what does that mean, what do you get?
<Bomster> AlanBell, hurry up lad
<AlanBell> um, one sec
<Bomster> You get a reward apparantly
<MartijnVdS> Bomster: You don't just get an (IPv4) IP, you get IPv6 as well
<Bomster> How does that benefit you, why would you want an IPv6?
<MartijnVdS> Bomster: which is good, as IPv4 addresses have run out
<Bomster> I see
<AlanBell> Bomster: alanbell1
<Bomster> so its now impossible to get a static IPv4?
<Bomster> kk, shall I put it in alanbell?
<AlanBell> go ahead, no idea what it will do :)
<AlanBell> but thanks!
<Bomster> no worries :)
<AlanBell> anyone using Asterisk with some kind of control panel thing that works?
<MartijnVdS> Bomster: no ISPs still have IPs left, but all networks have been assigned to regional registries (and they'll run out soon, then the ISPs will run out eventually)
<MartijnVdS> Bomster: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPv6_deployment
<MartijnVdS> Bomster: and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPv4_address_exhaustion
<Bomster> cheers will take a look
<MartijnVdS> Bomster: summary 'having ipv6 available makes you ready for the future'
<Bomster> I see, future proof
<shauno> atm, I see it not so much as future-proof for my connection, but for me.  we're going to end up usig v6 one day, whether we like it or not.  the more I know about it before that happens, the better
<MartijnVdS> for now, yes
<shauno> it's already showing up at work, because it's already a purchasing requirement for several usgovt contracts.  so learning about it now is ftw
<hamitron> still no news on my ISP fixing minecraft
<hamitron> :/
<MartijnVdS> your ISP broke minecraft?
<hamitron> months ago
<shauno> how?
<hamitron> minecraft and openttd network traffic get lost
<MartijnVdS> aww
<MartijnVdS> Good thing we have net neutrality here :)
<hamitron> I can play minecraft via tunnel
<shauno> didn't someone declare openttd a basic human right lately?  ;)
<MartijnVdS> hamitron: isn't tunneling the point of mc anyway?
<hamitron> haha
<hamitron> I'm gonna keep complaining till they do something
<hamitron> or leave them
<hamitron> but as I am the master of complaining, still got plenty left in my system
<hamitron> ;)
<Bomster> AlanBell - Our Referral scheme gives you a monthly discount for every person that joins us from your recommendation. It's as simple as that. All they need to do is add your username when they sign up and you'll see your monthly bill go down.
<AlanBell> heh, nice :)
<Bomster> Wanna send the reductions back to me on Paypal? XD
<AlanBell> heh, no ;)
<AlanBell> but I am sure you can reccommend it to someone else
<Bomster> Pay it forward.
<AlanBell> I didn't have that option when I signed up because I was transferring from an ISP they bought
<daubers> Evening
<MartijnVdS> \o daubers
<daubers> :)
<Psychobudgie> what on earth
<MartijnVdS> daubers: http://www.flickr.com/photos/treenaks/5987897531/
<Psychobudgie> I appear to be banned from offtopic as someone else was misbehaving and the op decided that using the tab key to autocomplete on a ban in a channel with over 100 people was  good plan
<Psychobudgie> awesome
<Psychobudgie> did they draw straws for ops ?
<MartijnVdS> Psychobudgie: please don't complain about other channels in this one, take it up with the ops and/or irc council
<Psychobudgie> irc council? Is that like the justice league?
<MartijnVdS> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/IrcCouncil
<shauno> my advice would be to a) take it to #ubuntu-ops, and b) approach it as a "heh, whoops", rather than "you blundering fool".  it'll get you much further much quicker
<Psychobudgie> I would take it up with the ops but they have banned me from the channel while I was idle and despite a message apologising and telling me I'm not banned, I am
<AlanBell> Psychobudgie: one sec . . .
<daubers> MartijnVdS: Cool
<AlanBell> Psychobudgie: can you try to join #ubuntu-ops again please
<MartijnVdS> daubers: should be perfect for a 21:9 cinema-style screen ;)
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: you're in this too -- http://www.flickr.com/photos/treenaks/5987897531/
<ali1234> what's the best database for a large number of binary strings? postgres?
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: "binary strings", as in 1010111011
<ali1234> yeah basically
<MartijnVdS> or as in 8-bit bytes
<ali1234> arbitrary binary blobs
<MartijnVdS> ah
<MartijnVdS> the filesystem ;)
<ali1234> all of length 2048 bytes
<ali1234> no, the filesystem is no good, i need to select
<MartijnVdS> CHAR(2048)
<ali1234> well yeah
<ali1234> postgres actually has a special datatype for such things
<ali1234> i have a dataset of 4,000,000 strings
<ali1234> i need to process them
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: rainbow tables? :)
<ali1234> i want to do it in distributed style
<ali1234> so i need clients to connect to the database to get work
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: if you want to do it truly distributed, look at hadoop&friends :)
<ali1234> best way to implement this?
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: it's a map/reduce framework that scales to massive amounts of CPUs, and is cool :)
<ali1234> i could use a rainbow table for this but it would be 2048*360^2 bytes long
<ali1234> which is quite big
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: check out the Hadoop intro by Cloudera
<ali1234> sorry, 2048*2^360
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: but if you only have 4M records, postgresql might be fine
<AlanBell> ali1234: heh, I was just about to say it wasn't very big
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aq0x2z69syM
<ali1234> hadoop is java?
<ali1234> no thanks
<ali1234> i need something that works with python
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: there is a python interface to it
<MartijnVdS> you can even use bash scripts :)
<ali1234> i need something that works with python and has zero annoying external dependencies like "a jvm"
<MartijnVdS> sqlite then
<ali1234> or postgres
<ali1234> or i suppose i could just roll my own
<MartijnVdS> that requires hardware ;)
<ali1234> um
<ali1234> anything requires hardware
<MartijnVdS> pg requires more than sqlite
<ali1234> not really
<ali1234> also sqlite cannot be access remotely
<ali1234> i'm talking about clients
<ali1234> if i use postgres and my own python scripts, then the client nodes only need python, numpy, scipy installed
<ali1234> if i use hadoop, then every client has to have a jvm installed on it
<MartijnVdS> uhm, no
<MartijnVdS> But: what problem are you trying to solve? Why 2048 bytes of binary data? Structured? Anything?
<ali1234> 2048 samples
<MartijnVdS> sensor data? audio? video?
<ali1234> yes
<ali1234> the sensor type is not important
<ali1234> it is a sample of a NRZ signal 360 bytes long, which has been filtered through a gaussian filter and then noise added
<MartijnVdS> I'd still look at hadoop, or some hadoop-style system
<ali1234> 360 bits sorry
<ali1234> recovery of the orignal NRZ signal is performed by 1. gaussian filter the samples, 2. perform a byte partitioning and find the lowest and highest bit in each byte - those are 0 and 1 (every byte has odd parity)
<ali1234> then loop through all possible signals until you find the one which, when convolved with the same gaussian filter as step 1, matches the observed samples
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: sounds like map, map, reduce
<MartijnVdS> or map, reduce, reduce
<ali1234> it's not
<ali1234> iterating through the set of possible signals is done... well, iteratively
<ali1234> it doesn't check every single one
<MartijnVdS> ah
<ali1234> if i did that it would take... well, longer than the age of the universe
<ali1234> instead it finds the best first byte, then the best second byte etc
<ali1234> and it does not test impossible bytes based on the previous ones
<ali1234> the only step that can be split out between machines is the top level
<ali1234> which is trivial... just split the data set into chunks and send one chunk to each machine
<ali1234> but i need to keep track of the status of each chunk
<ali1234> that's all i need
<ali1234> in simplest terms, i have a directory full of files
<ali1234> each time a client connects, send them the next file in the directory
<ali1234> each time the client sends back processed data, write that in another directory
<ali1234> if a file isn't returned within x time, send it out to the next client
<ali1234> i don't even need to store the actual data in the db
<ali1234> just the status of each file
<MartijnVdS> have you tried asking python people?
<MartijnVdS> lots of sciency people in that community
<ali1234> nah
<MartijnVdS> who know their way around weird and interesting data
<ali1234> i realise now that the database doesn't even matter
<ali1234> i can use sqlite
<ali1234> it won't make any difference
<ali1234> it will only have 170000 rows maximum
<ali1234> everyone who i described this to has been like "wut?" so far
<ali1234> except one person, who told me to use FFT instead... but FFT doesn't work on NRZ signals very well
<brobostigon> !info get-iplayer
<lubotu3> get-iplayer (source: get-iplayer): download/stream available BBC iPlayer TV and radio programmes. In component universe, is optional. Version 2.79-1 (natty), package size 106 kB, installed size 480 kB
<brobostigon> cool :)
<dwatkins> yeah, assuming they don't stop it from being able to work, get-iplayer is ace
<brobostigon> yes.
<brobostigon> quite.
<shauno> touch wood, it's been ticking away quite nicely for a good while now
<shauno> hopefully ntl will come up with a dvr that isn't utter pants, before get-iplayer breaks
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Coffee Car World Record, Powered By Bacon - http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/07/29/coffee-car-world-record-powered-by-bacon/
<brobostigon> good night, sleep well.
 * AlanBell is the proud new owner of softwarefreedom.biz
<popey> heh
<popey> nothing says professional like ".biz" :p
<AlanBell> at least you can get a domain with less than 40 letters in it!
<AlanBell> .org is crazy busy
<AlanBell> .com moreso
<AlanBell> not totally convinced by it yet, but at $5.99 it seemed worth nabbing
<popey> bar-gain
<BigRedS> domains are way too easy to buy...
<popey> i need to test the webcam on this meenee
<popey> anyone fancy jumping on google plus hangouts?
<BigRedS> google doesn't approve of my browser :(
<popey> Links?
<BigRedS> Icweasel 3.x
<popey> oookay
<BigRedS> haha
<popey> right, online
 * AlanBell is hanging out with popey and popey 
<AlanBell> looks like popey is about to join in too
<gord> three popey's might be one too many
<ali1234> hmm firefox seems to have semi-fixed their font hinting
<ali1234> it's not completely horrid now
<AlanBell> http://www.farnham.gov.uk/visit/parks-gardens/gostrey-meadow.html
<Azelphur> ali1234: woo, happy donations bar is happy. http://game.azelphur.com/
<Azelphur> first time I havn't had to pay for the server in a while \o/
<BigRedS> whoop!
<StevenR> urrgh. lots of sr 8:0:0:0: rejecting I/O to offline device
<StevenR> I wish there was a way to just say "usb reset"
<ali1234> there is
<ali1234> unload all the modules
<ali1234> the reload them
<StevenR> ali1234: I can't. Some of them are built in.
<Mez> If popey is going to talk at a conference... do not buy him a parrot :D
<Mez> Daviey: run, you're in trouble.
<Mez> didn't realise everyone was going ... :(
<ali1234> http://al.robotfuzz.com/~al/teletext/300.html
#ubuntu-uk 2011-07-30
<Daviey> Mez: eeeeeek
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Open Source Health With FitBit - http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/07/30/open-source-health-with-fitbit/
<czajkowski> aloha
<AlanBell> morning
<mattt> morning
<mattt> up early to take my car in for annual service
 * mattt boo hoos
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<MartijnVdS> \o brobostigon
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: o/
<Daviey> Anyone know of a cheap 5v 4A 5.5mm PSU? :)
<s-fox> Hello.
<brobostigon> afternoonings s-fox
<s-fox> Hello brobostigon, how goes?
<brobostigon> s-fox: not bad, tired, alittle better after some lunch, and you?
<s-fox> Okay I guess, bit jet lagged to be honest.
 * s-fox yawns
<brobostigon> ok.
<brobostigon> how you feel better soon.
<s-fox> Thanks.   12 hours on a plane sucks
<s-fox> lol
<brobostigon> longest i have been on a plane is two hours, going over to germany.
 * s-fox nods
<shauno> I've always wondered that.  I kinda want to visit thailand & china one day.  but 5 hours to/from the US broke me
<s-fox> I flew into london yesterday from Japan.  USA last year was pretty hard on me too shauno
<shauno> someone needs to do budget paddle-steamers.  travel the world without the unatural confinement
<s-fox> +1 shauno
<brobostigon> and normal time pregression.
<s-fox> Just noticed my clock is wrong on my laptop. It thinks it is 21:27...
<s-fox> Fixed.
<brobostigon> :)
<s-fox> wb
<brobostigon> thank you. kernel update on my vps.
<brobostigon> no breakage.
<brobostigon> vettel, hamilton, button.
<AlanBell> hands up everyone going to oggcamp
<AlanBell> o/
<popey> o/
<BigRedS> o/
<BigRedS> that was a well-timed alt-tab past on my part
<marxjohnson> o/
<popey> AlanBell: going to meet tony at the venue at half 3
<AlanBell> ok
<AlanBell> I will walk down
 * popey goes to mow the lawn first
<nperry> Ah, I've just finishing mowing the lawn
<nperry> Rewarding myself with a cold beer
<nperry> Best investment was the petrol lawn mower, and eletric one took ages.
<marxjohnson> AlanBell: Do I remember you saying that people are camping in your garden?
<AlanBell> yes they are marxjohnson, want a pitch?
<marxjohnson> If there's room on Friday night that would be lovely
<marxjohnson> I've got hotel booked on Sat and Sun
<marxjohnson> but never really thought about what to do on Friday :p
<AlanBell> yeah, no problem
<marxjohnson> awesome, thanks :-)
<marxjohnson> is there somewhere I can park nearby?
<AlanBell> yes
<marxjohnson> even better
<marxjohnson> I assume you accept payment in beer? ;-)
<AlanBell> yup :)
<AlanBell> might be a pre-pub BBQ on the friday too
<AlanBell> and for that matter on the saturday as well
<marxjohnson> ooh
<marxjohnson> can you PM/tweet/email me your address?
<czajkowski> peeka boo
<mgdm> ahoy
<hamitron> movement \o/
<MooDoo> hello all
<brobostigon> afternoonings MooDoo
<MooDoo> :)
<brobostigon> :)
<ikonia> any sky HD users noticed Anytimes not updated for a long time ?
<coregateFX> The goonies are on tv, Has to be the best movie ever made
<ikonia> truffle shuffle
<Azelphur> #php is being useless, anyone know why this is returning nothing? http://pastebin.com/XCSvkWkR
<Azelphur> it should return some json saying the character was not found, but I get literally nothing from it
<Azelphur> returning 404 and file_get_contents ignores it :)
<DJones> ikonia: Yep, ours did that, I went through a rebuild process and it fixed it
<DJones> ikonia: http://www.sky.com/helpcentre/tv/sky-plus-hd/recording/guide-to-performing-a-planner-rebuild/index.html
<StevenR> ok. So the speech dispatcher thingy is just awesome.
<AlanBell> StevenR: what are you doing with it?
<StevenR> AlanBell: marvelling at just how far this global community has come.
<StevenR> AlanBell: I'd simply never encountered anything apart from "Jaws" that did that, and was "just there"
<AlanBell> so are you using orca?
<StevenR> AlanBell: just playing with spd-say
<AlanBell> if you know how to use jaws, orca might be quite similar, it reads the gtk stuff on screen and passes it to speech dispatcher
<StevenR> AlanBell: no, I've never actually used jaws. I just used to support a blind kid at a previous job, and she used a laptop with jaws
<StevenR> (I couldn't keep up with her jaws-reading-speed either!)
<StevenR> AlanBell: I jsut didn't know the software existed by default, built in, just there, ready and working.
<AlanBell> yeah, amazing how fast people can listen, espeak (default speech dispatcher synth) can go very fast too
<StevenR> grrr. usb has partially packed up again
<StevenR> yay. INFO: task lsusb:13962 blocked for more than 120 seconds.
<StevenR> all I want to do is watch a dvd
<daubers> Lo
 * StevenR wishes the usb subsystem was more stable
<StevenR> I'm wondering if there's an alternative kernel I can try :S
<penguin42> SR: What broke on you?
<StevenR> penguin42: most things. usb devices just sort of "stop"... Like I plugged in a usb cd drive, and it wasn't detected, and things like lsusb started failing
<StevenR> or rather stalling. I get kernel errors
<penguin42> StevenR: There is a known bug with unplugging USB cd drives that's still being fixed
<StevenR> penguin42: I didn't unplug it
<StevenR> I plugged it in
<penguin42> Have you got the dmesg?
<StevenR> penguin42: yeah
<penguin42> pastebin?
<StevenR> penguin42: yeah, I'm just scrolling back through the file to find the start of the problems
<StevenR> penguin42: it kindof went into printk-firehose mode.
<penguin42> yeh the start is the interesting bit
<StevenR> penguin42: http://paste.ubuntu.com/655298/
<StevenR> penguin42: the last lot of errors (the can't reset device repeating error just went on and on)
<penguin42> StevenR: Hmm not seen anyone with that one before; ehci_hcd 0000:00:1d.0: force halt; handshake ffffc90001856024 00004000 00004000 -> -110
<penguin42> StevenR: I think that's the nasty - everything goes downhill from there
<StevenR> penguin42: yeah
<StevenR> penguin42: and ehci failing would explain why everything else follows... the question is.... how to make it not do this :)
<penguin42> StevenR: What kernel are you running
<StevenR> penguin42: the generic one I believe. hang on, I'll check
<penguin42> StevenR: Please file a bug for that, and point out that happened when you plugged it in (not when unplugged) -  also you could try the mainline ppa: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel/MainlineBuilds
<StevenR> yeah, it's the mainline one
<StevenR> penguin42: is ubuntu-bug gonna pull out the older dmesg, or would it be better to file it "manually" ?
<penguin42> StevenR: No harm in adding the attachment
<StevenR> bah. sorry, it's the generic kernel
<penguin42> StevenR: Yeh, be careful but try that mainline kernel - it's as new as they get
<StevenR> linux-image-generic                      2.6.38.10.25
<StevenR> penguin42: I haven't found a good way to repeat it yet though :S
<penguin42> StevenR: Ah that makes it hard
<StevenR> penguin42: I rebooted, plugged in the drive, and the dvd plays fine :)
<penguin42> StevenR: File the bug anyway
<ali1234> all the nasty crashes came from dvb usb
<ali1234> this doesn't really surprise me much
<ali1234> it looks like some device caused the port to be disabled
<ali1234> which caused the dvb adapter to be "unplugged"
<ali1234> and that unplugging caused the backtrace
<penguin42> ali1234: No, the first line is the real problem
<ali1234> yes
<penguin42> ali1234: All the stuff afterwards I think is due to the (presumably USB dvb) getting upset
<ali1234> and all the backtrace stuff is unrelated
<ali1234> dvb usb has a bug where it basically does that if you unplug the device
<ali1234> it's fixed upstream, dunno if the fix is in mainline yet
<StevenR> that's good to know :)
<ali1234> not really
<ali1234> it doesn't explain the first lines
 * brobostigon spots nice mail to the mailing list :), re: pcworld.
<popey> brobostigon: sadly just one individual, almost certainly not company policy
<brobostigon> popey: i agree, yes,
 * StevenR updates the loco approval page thing
<Jora> hi
<AlanBell> \o/ StevenR
<AlanBell> hi Jora
<brobostigon> evening Jora
<Jora> hi AlanBell, brobostigon
 * brobostigon is definatly geeky, watching, greatest movie mistakes on bbc3.
<AlanBell> in openshot you can render two titles at once
<AlanBell> or more
<StevenR> AlanBell: I just re-paragraphed the main intro chunk :)
<StevenR> I actually wrote it a couple of weeks ago, but Real Life stuff happened.
<AlanBell> yeah, it does that sometimes
<AlanBell> I am loving openshot
<brobostigon> good night everyone, sleep well.
#ubuntu-uk 2011-07-31
<ali1234> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-14305667?postId=109829019#comment_109829019
<ali1234> fail
<ali1234> i really want to reply to that post, but i don't have an account on the bbc comments and i can't be bothered to make one
<hamitron> :)
 * hamitron offers ali1234 a cup of tea to sit down and chill with
 * penguin42 waits for his main machine to finish upgrading to oo
<Jora> Hi brits
<hamitron> penguin42: oo?
<hamitron> hi Jora
<penguin42> hamitron: Oneiric Ocelot
<hamitron> :/
<mattt> evening
<Bomster> evening
<MooDoo> morning all
<_serial_> morning
<MartijnVdS> hi
<popey> Morning
<MooDoo> morning popey
<nperry> morning all o/
<MooDoo> :)
<brobostigon> good morning veryone.
<scoundrel50a> test
<scoundrel50a> so it is working.....its very quiet
<MooDoo> it always is on a sunday
<MooDoo> besides it's F1 day :D
<mattt> me naps
<MooDoo> >
<brobostigon> o/
 * penguin42 thinks most people are napping today
<MooDoo> snooooooooor
<penguin42> zzzzzz
<shauno> meh.  I'm at work :/
 * brobostigon is watching tv, with a beer.
<MooDoo> me too shauno
<brobostigon> :(
 * brobostigon gets beer ready for shauno and MooDoo 
<AlanBell> I have not been napping
<AlanBell> I found a 750W reciprocating power saw in the garage that I forgot I owned
<AlanBell> so I chopped most of my garden down
<penguin42> is that good?
<AlanBell> felt good doing it
<AlanBell> big boys toys :)
<bigcalm> Is it better to use PHP's Mail() or SMTP when both are useable?
<StevenR> bigcalm: whatever you do, submit to localhost and have it relay
<StevenR> (if it's PHP, have it spit the mail at localhost ... not sure what you mean by "or SMTP" ... does Mail() not do SMTP?)
<bigcalm> I'm using Mail_Queue for the bulk sending of emails. You have to specify a driver, such as: mail, smtp, sendmail
<StevenR> bigcalm: it doesn't sound like it would matter too much (unless the Mail() config in... I think php.ini...  is something that you don't want to use)
<StevenR> (I'd still submit mail to localhost though, and let the local MTA handle forwarding it on)
<daubers> lo
<StevenR> high
<Am|n> hi
<Am|n> hru
<popey> evening
<brobostigon> evening popey
<bottomface> hey you guys
<bottomface> playdeb keeps giving me software not in my sources when i click install from the site
<bottomface> I cant figure it out I've added the repository and everything.
<daubers> lo
<Datass> irc.geekshed.net
<dogmatic69_> o/
<vuth> hi UK
<vuth> anyone know a lot about building PC?
<StevenR> it depends what you want to know :)
<Azelphur> vuth: yea
<vuth> okok
<vuth> k i have a HP SR5152NX desktop and it has a micro motherboard inside it but the case is a medium size according to the specs
<vuth> can i use the case and buy a new motherboard maybe a medium size one
<StevenR> vuth: probably. you should be able to measure the inside of the case, and look at the specs of the motherboard. Why do you need a larger motherboard?
<Azelphur> vuth: motherboard size specifications arn't medium or small
<Azelphur> they are ATX, or micro ATX
<Azelphur> or both, there are a few other specs but they arn't widely used
<Azelphur> make sure your case can take full size ATX motherboards and as StevenR says measure up.
<Azelphur> all well and good being big enough, but if you don't have the ATX screw holes it's not gonna be fun unless your handy with a drill.
<dogmatic69_> you can get a new case for 10 bucks if you check the internet for about 3 minutes
<Azelphur> ^ that too
<vuth> so there is only 2 types Azelphur?
<Azelphur> vuth: there are other types, but the vast majority are ATX/Micro ATX
<Azelphur> your gonna be hard pressed to find the other types
<vuth> mATX = micro ATX right?
<Azelphur> yea
<vuth> are u running Ubuntu 64 bit right now?
<Azelphur> yes
<vuth> the latest version or the Long Term SUpport version 10
<vuth> ?
<Azelphur> latest
<vuth> kewl...do u run many windows program?
<vuth> or games...since theres not many good game that is linux native
<Azelphur> some, I obviously avoid it when able
<Azelphur> yes, mostly games.
<Azelphur> I'm one of the few nutty Linux gamers
<vuth> and u use wine for that right?
<Azelphur> yep
<dogmatic69_> minecraft works fine, what more do you need?
<brobostigon> good night everyone, sleep well.
<dogmatic69_> later brobostigon
<brobostigon> dogmatic69_: good night.
<dogmatic69_> anyone fly rc stuff by chance?
<vuth> :P
<vuth> does ubuntu have the snap to screen feature liek win 7?
<vuth> like u drag the window to the top and it auto maximizes, to the right it max on the right side only, etc.?
<dogmatic69_> yes
<dogmatic69_> but only if it was big
<dogmatic69_> from screen 1 -> 2 etc
<vuth> remote control planes?
<dogmatic69_> yip
<dogmatic69_> and/or helicopter
<vuth> no i dont...exxpensive hobby that is
<dogmatic69_> only when you learning ;)
<vuth> i sometimes build military models..tanks and fighters
<vuth> im building a T-80BV right now
<vuth> libreoffice and open office same thing right?
<AlanBell> vuth: pretty much
<AlanBell> LibreOffice is a fork, slightly different licensing situation and slightly different branding, nothing you are likely to notice
<directhex> vuth: the picture i just found of a SR5152NX definitely does not appear to be full ATX
<directhex> ultrabudget nforce 6150se board, by the look of it
<directhex> power supply seems a funny shape, to my eye. which is bad for replacing the innards, since OEM power supplies tend to be useless
<directhex> 550w? hm, could be worse, then
<C-S-B> I've got the feeling that rsync is backing up hardlinks/softlinks and using up twice as much space... is that right?
#ubuntu-uk 2012-07-23
<kayle_> i need help
<christel> good morning
<livingdaylight> gm
<christel> \o/
<livingdaylight> firefox is no longer integrated into TopBar. Someone know how to fix that?
<ali1234> topbar?
<ali1234> you mean global menu?
<livingdaylight> i thought it was called topbar. Yes, global menu aguess.   Where apps have their menu integrated Apple style
<ali1234> go to firefox extensions and make sure the global menu extension is there and enabled
<livingdaylight> cool
<livingdaylight> yup, its there and enabled
<livingdaylight> I don't know whether its since I installed Unity Mail that its no longer working or since I set Unity bar to AutoHide, but FF stopped being integrated into global menu
<ali1234> no idea then
<livingdaylight> thanks
<livingdaylight> maybe re-installing?
<ali1234> seems like overkill
<livingdaylight> this is already a fairly small laptop, and it now unnecessarily encroaches on screen realestate. Plus, should work as it should
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<czajkowski> Aloha
<brobostigon> morning czajkowski
<TheOpenSourcerer> Morning peeps \o/
<brobostigon> morning TheOpenSourcerer
<livingdaylight> reinstalling firefox seems overkill, but don't know how to fix the integration into global menu issue. Any ideas?
<christel> morning lovelies :)
 * bigcalm sneaks in
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<dwatkins> hiya
<christel> heya bigcalm \o/
<bigcalm> After a week off work, don't really feel like doing work today
 * czajkowski rugby tackles christel and hugs her! 
<bigcalm> Whoops :)
 * christel hugs czajkowski 
<bigcalm> christel \o/
<oimon> bigcalm, bet you wish you had this week off
<christel> how are you my most beautiful woman? :)
<czajkowski> not bad now
<bigcalm> oimon: part of me thinks that. Another part wants the money
<JamesTait> Happy Monday, everyone! :)
<oimon> i spy some long lunches this week
<oimon> in fact i think i will book tomorrow off
<oimon> wifey has morning sickness and i feel bad for her
<bigcalm> I should book off some time in September
<christel> happy monday JamesTait :)
<JamesTait> christel: Good morning, m'dear, how are you this fine day?
<christel> i am well -- pondering taking laptop outside to work in the sun \o/
<christel> yourself? :)
<AlanBell> morning all
<popey> morning
<bigcalm> Good morning Alans
<bigcalm> christel: that always seems like a good idea until you can't see the screen
<brobostigon> christel: dont get burnt, put sun protection on.
<s-fox> hello
<brobostigon> hello s-fox
<s-fox> hello brobostigon
<s-fox> how are you ?
<brobostigon> s-fox: still not very well, but alittle better. and you?
<s-fox> i am sorry to hear that brobostigon , i hope you get better soon
<brobostigon> :) thank you./
<s-fox> i am okay thanks, bit tired
<JamesTait> christel: Also enjoying the sun.  I'll need to fight my boys for space in the garden, though. ;)
<brobostigon> s-fox: :)
<KungFuPanda> morning guys
<s-fox> hello KungFuPanda
<s-fox> wb popey :)
<KungFuPanda> does any1 know what is the app for setup custom multmedia key for the keyboard ?
<popey> KungFuPanda, gnome-control-center keyboard
<popey> also, see compizconfig-settings-manager
<KungFuPanda> thx
<christel> JamesTait: hehe school holidays started eh? :P
<popey> what's the voodoo that lets you have a keyboard and mouse control two computers?
<christel> synergy?
<Laney> synergy
<Laney> i used it a bit recently, but it's kind of buggy
<popey> ah thats the one
<popey> oh :(
<JamesTait> christel: They have - first day off school today, and the boys are full of it. :)
<Laney> it got my laptop into a weird state where alt(?) was constantly pressed
<Laney> couldn't type into any window, couldn't even switch to a vt
<gord> i know some people that swear by synergy, i should really give it a go
<christel> i bet!
<bigcalm> popey: I use synergy every day and have never found it to be buggy
<oimon> synergy plus has the bugs taken out
<bigcalm> Look at quick-synergy. It will actually make using synergy simple to use
<oimon> synergy suffered from stalled development for a couple of years that patches weren't getting added, so it was forked
<popey> hmm, will look, but i have an odd network setup
<Laney> hmm there is a new version in exp
<Laney> 1.4.8
<bigcalm> Ubuntu's SSO is slugish today
<gord> i think we can all agree that its too warm to work today
<gord> lets all go home
<christel> haha
<mattt> gord: ^5
<directhex> i work from home :(
<gord> as do i, but if i say "lets all go into the other room where the computer is not" people look at you funny
<directhex> the bathroom?
 * bigcalm longs for his bed
<bigcalm> Actually, I'm not fussy. Any bed will do right now
<directhex> i long for bed also. but my scheduling is no longer my own
<directhex> i am a slave to the midget
<Twinkletoes> Good morning folks
<brobostigon> morning Twinkletoes
<Twinkletoes> My ntp client doesn't seem to be workign correctly, it's clock is now 45 minutes out of sync with the server, the offset (from the ntpdc -s command) is 2807 and growing
 * Twinkletoes smiles at brobostigon
<brobostigon> :)
<christel> aaah.. https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/394589_10151112917400937_344836818_n.jpg today's office!
<christel> \o/
<bigcalm> Haha
<bigcalm> I like the addition of flowers
<christel> \o/
 * bigcalm grins
<bigcalm> must.do.work!
<bigcalm> Really don't want to face my inbox
<christel> hehe
<christel> i don't much want to work tbh, i'd rather just sunbathe!
<diplo> Morning all
<diplo> I may move outside yet
<christel> i already did! tis WONDERFUL
<christel> :D
<diplo> I work in an old manor house, beautiful gardens
<christel> :D
<diplo> Lack of wireless in the garden though
<popey> i think i may move outside too
<diplo> Just asked my boss to get me a wireless extender :)
<diplo> Also, the bloke who runs this place, 2 daughters at uni and a nice swimming pool in the back garden \o/
<diplo> perfect
<christel> hehe
<popey> \o/ outside
<gord> popey: on the x220?
<popey> yes
<gord> hows the screen in the sunshine?
<popey> i am in shade under the vine
<gord> i don't have any shade :(
<popey> plant some vines and then wait 6 years
<davmor2> Morning all
<davmor2> czajkowski: Prod! Hello
<popey> https://twitter.com/popey/status/227343902158508032/photo/1
<popey> the view ^
<popey> * small children optional
<diplo> Looks lovely popey
<davmor2> popey: Fortunately for me my office is just about at a working temperature for a change :D
<diplo> Only good thing about the manor house is the big thick walls keep it cool
<diplo> Hmm, right 2 1/2 hours or so in and I've done 1 thing, book my holiday time off
<diplo> Time to get head into work I guess.
<christel> my view consists of halfnaked women sunbathing
<davmor2> christel: Put some more clothes on then :D
<diplo> lol
<christel> hahaha
<christel> i am perfectly dressed!
<diplo> I've just had my wireless extender's okayed if I set up a webcam of activitys down here :D
<diplo> They are all sat in stuffy office in the middle of a trading estate.
<bigcalm> Heh
<davmor2> bigcalm: how's your inbox looking now?
<bigcalm> davmor2: icky. I fear responding to some of the emails will make it even more icky
<bigcalm> davmor2: guns appear to be bringing LUG members out of the woodwork
<bigcalm> Even GingerDog is going :D
 * bigcalm waves to GingerDog
<davmor2> bigcalm: indeed they always do we are all gun toting maniacs who should all live in america apparently :D
<bigcalm> gord: are you coming on Thursday?
<bigcalm> mrevell: are you coming on Thursday?
<davmor2> mrevell: the right answer is yes by the way ;)
<gord> new fibre internet is being installed on thursday \o/ but that means i have to stay home so the engineer can flip a switch and plug a thing in
<gord> if history is anything to go by, that will get screwed up too
<Laney> infinity?
<directhex> install was effortless for me
<gord> zen, not bt. but bt fibre resold
<brobostigon> is it fibre all the way? or only to the nearest switch box?
<gord> fttc, but the cabinet is like, right there *points*, so i should get good speeds. many times better than the 1mbit be is giving me right now
<directhex> the issue with non-zen resold infinity is the monthly caps :/
<gord> i'd rather deal with a monthly cap than traffic shaping
<directhex> the only shaping is on torrent traffic, which doesn't affect me
<gord> bt have had fun times shaping any non http traffic, at least in the past
<gord> which would affect me in lots of fun ways
<directhex> yes, on their adsl offering
<gord> you can see how i can't trust them to not bring that to fibre though surely
<MartijnVdS> hmm fibre
<directhex> i get a happy happy 76mbit
<directhex> which makes me happy
 * Flashtek wants
<Flashtek> ideally with someone else paying...
 * brobostigon should in theory, be able to get the same as directhex 
<christel> i think i have wrapped up work for the day!
<davmor2> christel: I'm not surprised if you do it wrap things it can't take that long ;)
<christel> :P
<directhex> gord, fyi it looks like torrent traffic is limited to about 8mbit
<gord> but how would i download my ubuntu isos!
<directhex> over http, in seconds?
<davmor2> gord: zsync
<gord> i'll stick with zen :) no filtering, nice pure internet
<gord> if i go near my cap of 200gb, which i doubt, i'll just switch to the 300gb package
<directhex> i'll stick with BT - steam downloads over http, and that's my biggest BW usage by far
<directhex> what i find lolworthy is 40G caps, e.g. on the cheap infinity package
<gord> i think for a lot of people 40gb would be fine
<directhex> 40G at 80mbit? use your entire cap in about an hour
<gord> well not if your only using a bit of IM, facebook and amazon
<directhex> why would you have fttc, in that case?
<gord> because in lots of places the only alternative is < 1mbit
<directhex> IM needs >1 mbit?
<gord> facebook sure does, amazon too if you don't want it super slow
<gord> i'm stuck on 1mbit right now, i can't even use youtube without constant buffering
<directhex> i could break a 40G cap in 3 clicks
<brobostigon> wget -r http://mirror.ox.ac.uk   would do it.
<directhex> RAGE is a 22.4G install from steam. GTA4 is 16.3, GTA4 expansion is 17.4, FEAR 1 with both expansions (which are pulled down simultaneously) is 17.4
<directhex> aliens vs predator (the new one) is 15.8
<brobostigon> ouch
<directhex> alpha protocol is 12.7, batman arkham city is 17.7
<brobostigon> ouch, again.
<directhex> FEAR 2 is 14.5, frontlines fuel of war is 12.6
<KungFuPanda> hi guys, where I can find "System -> Preferences -> Appearance -> Visual Effects" under ubuntu 12.04 ?
<diplo> directhex: That's why i think BW caps like that are laughable, even someone who just wants games to play needs more than that.
<KungFuPanda> I want to enable the visual effects, but I can't find where to enable it
<directhex> diplo, yup.
<directhex> KungFuPanda, they pulled that option out
<directhex> KungFuPanda, if you want effects, use compizconfig settings manager to tweak as you like
<KungFuPanda> I did , but none effect applied
<KungFuPanda> nvidia, dual monitor, login session using ubuntu 2D,
<directhex> well, that was a minor detail
<directhex> unity 2d is not compiz
<directhex> unity 3d is compiz
<directhex> you want effects, log in to unity 3d
<KungFuPanda> my login session none unity 3d
<KungFuPanda> only ubuntu, ubuntu 2d
<AlanBell> "ubuntu" is unity 3d
<KungFuPanda> o? thx, I will that
<KungFuPanda> exit
<KungFuPanda> yep, that is works, thanks a lot
<KungFuPanda> another question, I used an app in ubuntu 11 before, I forget the name, anyone know it?, by using it, you can choose what keyboard you are using from a keyboard list, like microfot wireless laser 6000, then you can choose what type event the keyboard will send, then ubuntu can receive all the function, multmedia key event.
<KungFuPanda> anyone happen to know what app it is ?
<KungFuPanda> then you can program all the function multimedia key?
<KungFuPanda> found it , keytouch, thx
 * bigcalm returns topless
<zleap> er ok
<bigcalm> Tis a touch warm
<zleap> yeah same here
 * davmor2 was thinking of putting on a cardie it's a bit chilly here :D
<bigcalm> davmor2: odd man
<dwatkins> it's raining in Edinburgh, but rather warm and humid indoors
<davmor2> of course I'll cook as soon as it gets to about 16:00-17:00 when the sun finally gets round to the front of the build
<diplo> directhex: Was it you who was after some headphones for sleeping
<gord> my office is on the east side of my house which is great because the sun gets it nice and really really hot in the morning then the quad core and gtx 560 keep that heat going during the rest of the day
<directhex> diplo, i was... although now i've learned to fall asleep to the sound of the same white noise app we use for the baby
<directhex> problem solved
<diplo> http://www.sleepphones.com/store/sleepphones-store/sleepphones-4
<diplo> Just remembered seeing my mum this weekend
<diplo> That's what she uses if you do want something that has been tried.
<bigcalm> I hear white noise all of the time. Maybe that's why I sleep so well
<gord> turn off a computer :P
<diplo> So, 5-6 hours in and still pretty much sod all done
<diplo> :/
<bigcalm> gord: that won't stop the tinnitus :)
<gord> it might!
<bigcalm> I'm guessing that you don't have tinnitus then :)
<gord> chromes awesomebar replacement thing is a pain, maybe i'll switch back to firefox
<gord> it forces auto-complete, you can never search for what you actually want to search for with it because it forces you to autocomplete to something else
<diplo> gord: Tried opera ?
<diplo> First time I've used it in years and quite liking
<diplo> Found FF a real killer recently
<davmor2> gord: my office is nnw so I get the sun for a couple of hours or so if I'm lucky last thing at night and as I've said before I have the walkway under my floor, one wall and the roof all exposed to the elements so this room never gets hot as such just humid
<AlanBell> yay for importing data which includes dates like "04-44-2001"
<brobostigon> lol
<oimon> is the htc desire sold in the UK the same as the desire g7?
<directhex> oimon, i've never seem the "g7" nomenclature used outside of chinese mobile phone case manufacturers. htc have never used it, don't think any network has rebadged their device to use it either
<christel> AlanBell: that's my birthday!
<directhex> AlanBell, mysql?
<oimon> directhex, it's used a lot on ebay
<oimon> buy sony lcd scren for htc desire g7
<AlanBell> directhex: oracle, it was a timestamp that they converted to a nice date for me in order to be helpful
<oimon> but ebay sellers tend to copy all other ebayers
<bigcalm> Here comes the sun. Time to draw the curtains
<brobostigon> yep, keep cool.
<popey> oh golly http://www.theverge.com/2012/7/12/3154297/edify-christian-tablet-cydle-multipad-m7
<DJones> popey: Its a rip off, cheap out of date tablet, preloaded with free apps from the market, the apps they install I've got installed on my tablet because I use them, but that tablet looks very out of date
<popey> seems an interesting idea though
<popey> much like christian ubuntu
<DJones> Was just about to compare it to that
<popey> wonder if they do a muslim and satanic version too ;)
<zleap> but it could harm the image of free software if people think that those are the newest versions of something
<zleap> Ubuntu ME and CE
<DJones> popey: Somehow, I doubt it as its an american christian group selling it
 * bigcalm returns to melt some more
<DJones> :)
<bigcalm> I've bought a few games on Steam during the sale, but haven't yet booted into GameOS to play them
<bigcalm> Might have to do something about that
<bigcalm> Dislike rebooting to Windows though. Everything takes so long to become useable
<bigcalm> usable
<ali1234> free software does not have an "image"
<ali1234> and if that's how you make a decision on what software to use, free software won't miss you
<gord> bigcalm: is that because you have it on a hdd whilst ubuntu is on an ssd? ;)
<bigcalm> gord: partly
<bigcalm> But even when Ubuntu was on an HDD, it was never so painfully slow
 * bigcalm tickles popey
<bigcalm> If it wasn't hot enough already, I'm not turning on more machines
 * bigcalm moves IRC over to the laptop so he can reboot workstation into GameOS
<bigcalm> I fear my workstation is about to take off or melt
<brobostigon> :(
<bigcalm> Wow, the pitch of the fan just got even higher
<bigcalm> And again
<bigcalm> Windows is not good for a computer's health
<Darael> bigcalm: There has /got/ to be a way of exploiting this.
<zleap> GameOS  - oh windows right
<bigcalm> zleap: it's the only use we tend to have for it
<zleap> yeah
<Darael> Most of the games I'm actually interested in playing run in Wine these days.  I do have to use a patched Wine for Black & White, but hey, I'll take that over rebooting for one game any day.
<Darael> 'Specially with things like Psychonauts getting ported for the Humble Bundle.  That was a Good Day.
<MartijnVdS> I want Scribblenauts for Ubuntu :)
<jacobw> evening
<daubers> %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
<MartijnVdS> &&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&
<daubers> oops
<daubers> sorrt
<daubers> sorry!
 * MartijnVdS sorts
 * jacobw randomizes
 * daubers always hated writing CV's
<MartijnVdS> daubers: LinkedIn!
<zleap> linkedin is good
<zleap> has a nice uubntu community too
<zleap> ubuntu
<Azelphur> well this is pretty cool, wikispeed just announced they will sell their 109 mpg (lowest for a road legal engine) for a little shy of 3,000 bitcoins :D
<Azelphur> open source design, modular, can have your own chassis anything from a proper race car to a 4 door
<Azelphur> cars, they are clearly doing it right
<ali1234> that's $30000
<Azelphur> they want $25k for it
<Azelphur> hense a littly shy
<dogmatic69> is there a way to tell if a pc has single / dual channel memory without taking it out?
<popey> dogmatic69, will "sudo lshw -C memory" tell you?
<popey> mine tells me a product ID
<popey> M471B5273DH0-CH9
<dogmatic69> it flashes stuff on the same line :/
<dogmatic69> oh, nvm.. missed the y
<dogmatic69> popey: http://paste.ubuntu.com/1107144/
<dogmatic69> dont see a id
<popey> so you have 4GB RAM?
<dogmatic69> ye
<dogmatic69> 4x 1gb
<popey> I'd just punch the model number into crucial.com/uk
<dogmatic69> ye, I dont have that atm
<popey> why not?
<dogmatic69> its in the rack
<popey> sudo dmidecode
<dogmatic69> ah
<christel> the sun has gone away!
<popey> doesn't always reveal it
<christel> er, wrong window
<bigcalm> christel: I know where it always shines
<christel> uh oh :)
<bigcalm> But it would be rude to say so in here :P
<Pendulum> christel: it's gone away here and it isn't even night yet :(
<christel> :(
<christel> can you please find the sun Pendulum
<christel> and bring it back
<Pendulum> I think my kitten stole it. She likes to steal her toys and hide them places
<christel> alternatively, will you be my sunshineeeeee
<christel> awww bless
<christel> <3
<Pendulum> christel: I'll always be your sunshine
<dogmatic69> popey: it has this http://pastebin.com/VpJE8b6H
<christel> :D:D:D:D
 * christel does a dance with Pendulum 
<brobostigon> QI, bbc2.
<popey> dogmatic69, thats not all of dmidecode
<bigcalm> brobostigon: new series?
<dogmatic69> popey: there is loads, but the memory looks like that
<popey> no, I mean the machine ID
<brobostigon> bigcalm: no idea. just noticed it.
<dogmatic69> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1107152/
<popey> not memory
<popey> 	Product Name: ProLiant DL380 G4
<popey> punch that into crucial.com/uk
<dogmatic69> oh
<dogmatic69> I see, that will not tell what ram it has though. two types are usable, single and dual channel
<xr1rr> trying to generate a CSR cert with OpenSSL but its only giving me a private key not a private rsa key.. any ideas or help
<dogmatic69> I know what it can take, want to know what is physically in it
<popey> ah
<cliftonts> AlanBell: Are you about?
<bigcalm> Sleeeeeeeeep
#ubuntu-uk 2012-07-24
<em> Are you all getting excited for the Olympics
<Azelphur> I'm sure everybody is dreaming about it (it's 3:20am) :P
<christel> gooooooood morning!
<diplo> Morning all
 * MartijnVdS cycled to work today
<MartijnVdS> Almost 2 hours 8-)
<diplo> Is it far, as I suppose you don't have the issue of hills
<diplo> :P
<christel> nice, i think i'd melt if i tried cycle anywhere today
<christel> it is SO HOT!
<christel> any of you guys in york by any chance?
<christel> morning TheOpenSourcerer \o/
<TheOpenSourcerer> morning christel et al.
<christel> how are you this wonderfully fine morning? :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> wonderfully fine thank you :-) And you?
<christel> very very well! enjoying the sunshine and attempting to convince Myrtti to go to a party up north on my (freenodes) behalf!
<christel> popey \o, pancro o/
<MartijnVdS> diplo: it's just over 32km
<MartijnVdS> christel: it's not quite so hot when it's 6:45am  ;)
<christel> ah that might be true! hehe
<pancro> hey christel
<Twinkletoes> Good morning!
<Twinkletoes> There seem to be loads of ftp/sftp servers in the repos.  Apart from proftpd, what do people here generally use (or like)?
<JamesTait> Good morning all! :)
<christel> moooooooooooooorning JamesTait \o/
<JamesTait> Hey christel. :) How's you?
<diplo> Twinkletoes: I only use SFTP now, part of openssh-server
<christel> JamesTait: incredibulous! :D
<christel> i am loving this whole SUN thing
<christel> how are you wonderful? :)
<JamesTait> It's wonderful, isn't it?  I'm very well, thank you. :)
<JamesTait> I've managed to finally get around to spraying the sills on my car, which were down to bare metal and starting to rust.  It's amazing what a couple of days of sunshine can do. :)
<christel> :D
<christel> hehe
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<christel> GOOD MORNING BIGCALM
<Twinkletoes> diplo: Thanks :)
<bigcalm> Yikes
<bigcalm> Good morning Madam CAPSLOCK
<Twinkletoes> Stop shouting in here, we're all still half-asleep!
 * Twinkletoes yawns
<bigcalm> Eep, forgot to put out the recycling!
<christel> Twinkletoes: time to WAKE UP!
<christel> :D
<christel> i should put some more clothes on before people come to Go To Church
<Twinkletoes> uh... uh?
<Twinkletoes> :)
 * JamesTait blushes
<christel> Twinkletoes: :D
<bigcalm> christel: why the need for clothes if you're not the one going to church?
<bigcalm> And even if you were, are they really that necessary?
<christel> well, i sort of feel it would be inappropriate to be sunbathing topless outside the church!
<christel> even the virgin mary is wearing clothes today
<bigcalm> Fair enough :)
 * directhex moos
<KungFuPanda> morning guys
<KungFuPanda> what is the command to open a bookmark folder in file browser ?
<diplo> Different per browser I guess, can't say i use it that often, used to be Ctrl B i think
<KungFuPanda> like, what is the command to open my home folder in file browser, ubuntu default file browser
<diplo> Oh file browser :)
<KungFuPanda> ye, file browser,
<diplo> nautilus
<KungFuPanda> I just want to program one of my function key to do that, but I do not know the command
<diplo> ^^
<KungFuPanda> can I give a diffrent folder path as params ?
<KungFuPanda> found it
<KungFuPanda> thx
<diplo> Sorry was on my other screen, but yes you can :)
<daubers> Urgh... works getting complicated again. Might need some project management books soon :(
<diplo> Tell me if you find any good ones daubers
<diplo> Going to have to buy my own so would rather go on a recommendation
<bigcalm> Too warm again
<bigcalm> Silly English summer
<bigcalm> It's the humidity
<diplo> Silly english people complaining :D
<bigcalm> Ha
<diplo> I'll take it however it comes tbh
<bigcalm> I prefer anything but summer
<diplo> It defo is not as nice as abroad, but it's got to be better than that rain
<christel> it isnt that warm silly!
<christel> it is LOVELY
<christel> could be a tad warmer mind
<bigcalm> I don't mind the warmth so much, it is the humidity that saps my energy
<christel> mmmsticky!
<christel> ;)
<mattt> humid?
<christel> i have decided that today is a Holiday
<mattt> it's not humid today :-/
<bigcalm> \o/
<christel> so i am pondering cocktails
 * mattt would rather be fishing
<bigcalm> christel: tall stories told by chickens?
<christel> i am going fishing next week :D
<christel> on the norwegian coooooast \o/
<mattt> christel: where bouts?
<mattt> aww, lucky
<christel> mmm :)
 * mattt is going to weymouth to fish on saturday
<christel> http://i.imgur.com/SBRex.jpg i shall be *there* enjoying the midnight sun and the calm sea!
<mattt> oh wow
<christel> and this shall be the view i see from my window, every day: http://i.imgur.com/KEaGK.jpg :D
<mattt> christel: i don't like you right now
<christel> haha
 * czajkowski tickles christel 
<christel> you can come with me! we've got pleeenty of space :D
 * christel huggles czajkowski the cute <3
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<christel> hullu brobostigon \o/
<brobostigon> hello christel :)
<christel> mattt: i grew up in the skinny part of norway, so going home means being superclose to both the coast and the mountains (and only half an hour drive from the arctic circle and from the swedish border respectively) -- tons of nice nature -- and since my parents divorced it means "several homes" to visit at various pretty places (they both have summer houses on the coast, my mum in a small island a couple of hours drive from "home" ...
<christel> ... and my dad on a peninsular about 4-5 hours further north.. and two "winter cabins" for skiing etc, one at the arctic circle, another one in the middle of the mountains, can only be access on skis or snowmobiles during winter)
<christel> going home is complete and utter bliss :)
<Seeker`> wow, sounds great
<christel> definitely gives me a chance to recharge the batteries :)
<Seeker`> can I come?
<christel> yes!
<Seeker`> ok. Just need to convince my boss now.
<mattt> christel: yeah, norway is beautiful ... i rented a cottage w/ my wife and her family somewhere in the south a good few years back
<mattt> now to remember where that was
<christel> :D
<mattt> so you were born in norway?
<christel> i was yeah :)
<mattt> oooh
<christel> moved here.. gosh, it'll be 14 years in november
<christel> all my family are still back in norway though :)
<bigcalm> What drew you to this dump?
<mattt> bigcalm: hey now
<bigcalm> I mean England
<christel> bigcalm: duh, the weather and the ample space...
<christel> HARR HARR HARR
<bigcalm> Hehe, weird :P
<christel> that comment may make more sense when you see http://i.imgur.com/JVJzt.jpg
<christel> which is behind the house i grew up in
<gord> friend of mine in norway is complaining about how its 8 degrees and raining, he may have the northern lights and beautiful scenery, but for a few days i can feel smug at last
<christel> my current garden doth not compare!
<czajkowski> gord: lol!
<christel> gord: hehe
<mattt> bigcalm: that's a fair comment about weather actually
<mattt> i grew up in canada, weather ranges from -30 to +30
<mattt> weather here is great :)
<mattt> tho that rainy spell we had since april was kinda funky
<christel> yeah, same back home -- proper seasons
<christel> cold winters, warm summers..
<christel> when i first moved here (admittedly i moved to yorkshire, it was grim up north etc) i called my mum once, in tears, because it had been autumn for 18 months...
<bigcalm> LOL
<directhex> oh, foolish christel
<directhex> you get all 4 seasons in 1 day!
<christel> hahaha
<directhex> bright sunshine, hail, gale-force winds, driving rain, drizzle and misery, all in one day
<directhex> sometimes all at once
<directhex> we have all the weather at once!
<christel> very true!
<christel> sometimes i think that i want to move back home
<christel> because it is pretty
<christel> but then i remember that it is about 7 quid a pint
<bigcalm> You'd keep the economy afloat
<christel> oh, 7.80 in some places it seems!
<mattt> yeah, it's beautiful
<christel> haha
<mattt> but the food there ... ugh
<christel> yeah, it is very pretty
<christel> gasp, you didnt like norwegian food?!
<mattt> no spice!
<mattt> christel: to be honest, we didn't eat a single meal out there ... but i didn't see much variety in restaurants we drove by
<christel> i dunno what sort of stuff restaurants etc sell tbh
<mattt> maybe next time i go i'll try me some whale
<AlanBell> http://www.startrek.com/article/patrick-stewart-carries-olympic-torch yay!
<christel> whale is gorgeous :)
<christel> i am in love with patrick stewart :(
<christel> i told my mum i wanted moose the day i arrive
<christel> \o/
<directhex> who isn't?
<AlanBell> think I want to be patrick stewart when I grow up
<christel> patrick stewart was at my graduation \o/
<bigcalm> Blimey
<christel> bigcalm: not for me, mainly because he is the chancellor of the university where i did my bsc :(
<christel> but i like pretending that it was because he LOVED me as much as i love him!
<christel> but yes, he is the most attractive man on the planet without a doubt
<christel> he could talk at me all the time and i'd just tingle with excitement :D
<bigcalm> :)
<christel> bigcalm: you probably think i jest about my patrick stewart obsession.. i dont.. i went so far as to deliberately move to mirfield whilst studying at huddersfield simply because that was where he grew up! :S
<christel> god, that is so sad
<christel> :D
 * bigcalm pats christel 
<bigcalm> christel: you're so adorable ;)
<christel> hahaha
<christel> what, when i turn into a raving mad psycho stalker? :D
<mattt> i saw him in a play in london w/ one of the guys from the american show dawson's creek
<mattt> it was hilarious
<christel> bigcalm: sadly, i also stalked the only other famous person i've had (oh i still do) a crush on
 * christel nods
<christel> mattt: :D
<bigcalm> I saw him and Sir Ian McKellen at a local theatre performing Waiting for Godot
<christel> bigcalm: my most favourite band in the entire world ever is bad religion.. and i totally fancy their singer..
<christel> who also lecture at the UCLA
<christel> which made it oh too easy to contact him :s
<bigcalm> :|
<christel> see, i am such a stalker :D
<christel> (he is lovely though.. and once signed my boobs so i shant complain too much)
<christel> i was young and convinced i'd never ever ever ever wash them ever again!
<mattt> i think that was my cue to get back to work
<mattt> :)
 * mattt is afk
<bigcalm> I wonder if I'll be at all productive this week after having a week off
<bigcalm> Getting back into is proving rather tricky
<christel> hehe yeah, it's always hard to pick up momentum again after a lazy week!
<JamesTait> Or even just a lazy weekend, sometimes.
<christel> yeah, very true!
<christel> i am failing at being productive this week so i have decided to just give up and consider it holiday! :s
<christel> my clients are so far failing to understand this so i might have to do some work :(
<davmor2> Morning all
<christel> hullu davmor2 \o/
<davmor2> christel: get to work, NOW! ;)  Hello :)
<davmor2> czajkowski: Prod!
<JamesTait> I have so far spent this week mostly in fire-fighting mode.  I have yet to actually get back to work on what I planned to be working on.
<bigcalm> Morning davmor2
<JamesTait> davmor2: o/
<davmor2> hey bigcalm JamesTait
<christel> hehe but but but!
<davmor2> christel: Man you took the whole being on holiday serious, get off that boat and get back to work, I can hear the engine but, but, butting in that background :)
<christel> ;)
<bigcalm> A sign that summer has arrived - freckles are appearing on my hands
<bigcalm> Or is that very patchy dirt?
<christel> i have a freckled nose :(
<JamesTait> Aw, cute. :-P
<christel> no :(
 * JamesTait disappears back into the shadows
<christel> i have a massive (ok, it's quite tiny) hangup about freckles
<christel> :P
<christel> my brother always told me i looked like i'd been wearing a pasta strainer over my face!
<brobostigon> :(
<christel> he is very mean
<brobostigon> :(
<christel> he once tried to get rid of me by leaving the pram with me in it outside the gates to the local recycling plant/tip
<christel> :(
<brobostigon> :(
<christel> (i was very little and cant remember this, but the story has often been retold)
<bigcalm> :(
<davmor2> christel: but that's a brothers Job, there are 2 rules, You're evil to your siblings but if anyone hurts them you pound them into the dirt
<christel> hehe
<christel> he was very mean
<JamesTait> davmor2: You just summed up my childhood right there.
<christel> once he picked me up (i was asleep) and chucked me out of the window into the snow
<christel> he found it utterly hilarious
<brobostigon> could be quite dangerous/
<brobostigon> have been*
<christel> sometimes he was nice though... like when i got drunk for the first time and vomited all over the house.. he cleaned up, put me to bed.. and made me cheese on toast (which in turn made me vomit all over the house again)
<brobostigon> lol
<christel> i was 14. and thought that if i got really really really drunk (because i'd seen in films that you'd get loads of courage then, right?) then i could declare my undying love for this guy in the year above me at school (i was a bit of a dork and too shy to talk to him)
<davmor2> christel: that just means he took his job seriously, that's a good thing :)
<christel> my father was most unimpressed
<brobostigon> understandable.
<christel> though, as a teenager i frequently failed at impressing my father
<christel> i was terribe
<christel> terrible*
<christel> he'd reluctantly agreed that i could be home alone for a week whilst he flew to italy for some work business..
<christel> i decided to drive his brand new car
<brobostigon> lol
<christel> ... which i promptly reversed over the picket fence
<brobostigon> lol
<brobostigon> :(
<christel> (i was an awful child!) :D
<christel> (i also crashed the day i got my license.. though not in my dads car)
<christel> cars and me are such a bad combination
<christel> it was a snowy dark day and i had nil visibility so i was just following the lights of the car ahead of me..
 * bigcalm makes a note
<christel> when it went off the road and into a trench
<christel> where i promptly drove into it!
<davmor2> christel: please forewarn the southerns before leaving home in a car
<christel> i dont ever drive on the motorway
<christel> the last time i did i had someone screaming at me from gatwick to exeter because i was too close to the curb and because i kept opening the door when i wanted to change gears
<christel> :S
<bigcalm> Haha, oh my
<christel> (honestly, i conform to every single female driver stereotype there is)
<christel> :(
<Laney> heh, that's a fair distance
 * davmor2 sends a email to vosa to see if we can get someone's license revoked ;)
<davmor2> christel: You only conform to the stereotype if you refuse to believe there is a stereotype, Man you even fail at being a stereotypical woman driver ;)
<christel> hahaha
<christel> <3
<bigcalm> I hate coming up with deadlines for my own work. Isn't that what project managers are for?
<davmor2> bigcalm: if it's your work always add a week then you look awesome bringing it in early when you finish on your original target date ;)
<christel> haha
<bigcalm> davmor2: problem here is that my client is also my boss
<christel> yeah, what davmor2 said!
<bigcalm> So he has a realistic idea of what I'm meant to be doing
<JamesTait> bigcalm: http://blog.slickedit.com/2007/08/the-perfect-estimate/
<JamesTait> tl; dr - Two weeks is the perfect estimate.  Long enough to be plausible, short enough to not be objectionable.
<AlanBell> so true
<bigcalm> JamesTait: I'm inclined to agree. A project I've been working on for months is pretty much ready for field testing. So if I say 2 weeks he might be okay with it
<AlanBell> best way is to start with 2 weeks as the estimate, then figure out what can be done in it and what goes in phase 2
<AlanBell> then you can defer some bits to phase 2 and still hit the deadline
<christel> i quoted a silly long deadline for a job.. (it is due on the 31st).. been sitting on it for a week already waiting to deliver and not wanting to seem daft by delivering super early :s
<JamesTait> Estimates are just that - estimates.  If you had a perfect idea of the exact steps required and how long they'd take, and a guarantee of no interruptions, you'd be able to give an exact answer.  That's rarely the case, unfortunately.
<bigcalm> Just sent off the 2 week estimate email
 * bigcalm crosses his fingers
<bigcalm> I did pad it to w/c 6th August though :)
<bigcalm> Which gives me the weekend if needed
<bigcalm> If I only had this one client, it'd be simpler. But also boring
<gord> my cat keeps jumping out the first floor window (indoor cat, not allowed outide) so i can't have any windows open, i think i might die from being too warm
<bigcalm> Catering for multiple clients keeps the job interesting yet adds to the stress :)
<bigcalm> gord: window netting
<gord> if i take any steps to deal with sunhine it will damn us all to rain
<bigcalm> Haha
<bigcalm> gord: I would not complain in the slightest
<bigcalm> Tummy be a rumbling
<bigcalm> Might be lunch time soon
<christel> bigcalm: stress is always good!
<bigcalm> christel: no it isn't. That's why I'm on happy pills :D
<christel> oh
<bigcalm> Didn't you know?
<christel> one of my clients only send me superstressfuluberamounts of work that have me semi-suicidal
<christel> however, he also pays me incredibly well and always within 3 days of me invoicing
<christel> which makes it totally worth it
<bigcalm> :)
<bigcalm> A good incentive
<Dave2> My mind looked at superstressfuluberamounts and saw lube
<christel> apparently he feels that since i always am happy to Stay Up At Night to finish work for him on time it is only fair that he pays me quickly
<bigcalm> Dave2: your mind is in the wrong channel for that :P
<christel> Dave2: what constitutes a stressful amount of lube? :)
<Dave2> Oh, whoops
<christel> (he is by far my favourite client)
<Dave2> stop confusing me by not talking in #lr
<christel> hahaha
<bigcalm> I do believe it's time for lunch!
<christel> mmm
<christel> what are you making me? :D
<Dave2> It does appear to be
<bigcalm> Chicken Pizzola subway on honey oat. Grated cheese and toasted. Lettuce, tomato, olives, onions and jalapeÃ±os. Touch of mayonnaise
<christel> sounds tasty but way too heavy for this heat!
<christel> i think i shall opt for a liquid lunch!
 * Dave2 will be having a burger
<Dave2> in an air conditioned office
 * Laney is going to head out to the park this aft
<Laney> find some shade. laptop. 3g.
<Laney> pimms?
 * JamesTait will mostly be ferrying kids around, and grabbing whatever's quick to prepare and probably eating it at his desk.
<christel> PIMMS! <3<3
 * christel goes to the park with Laney 
<Laney> \o/
<davmor2> christel: I hope that means soup and not Martinis on the quarter deck?
<christel> JamesTait: hehe
<christel> davmor2: i er. no :( i ws thinking that since it is sunny i should try a sunny diet of vast alcoholic proportions
 * AlanBell will have to stock up on pimms for the BBQ
<christel> mmmpimms
<bigcalm> I really really want to be at the BBQ!
 * christel wants to go to the BBQ
 * bigcalm grumbles
<christel> haha
<davmor2> christel: back to work then till you think soup is more sensible ;)
<christel> davmor2: vodka is soup right?
<christel> i mean, it is almost like a potato and onion soup minus the onions
<christel> if it is a potato vodka that is
<davmor2> christel: if it was a bloody mary then it's basically cold tomato soup that alcoholic  :D
<christel> PERFECT
<christel> i'll add some tomato to it!
<JamesTait> davmor2: Don't encourage her! :-P
 * christel sulks
<davmor2> JamesTait: why on earth not? It's fun :D
<christel> i am pondering whether it would be possible to play a drinking game on my own
<brobostigon> christel: that might be difficult.
<christel> hrmph
 * christel goes investigate whether she has any summerly booze
<TheOpenSourcerer> Did someone say booze?
 * bigcalm said lunch
<bigcalm> *gone*
<TheOpenSourcerer> boozy lunch :-)
 * JamesTait turns to the dumbells while waiting for tests to finish running.
<JamesTait> This health kick is going to kill me. :-/
<christel> boozy lunch \o/
<christel> we should boozy lunch again soon TheOpenSourcerer!
<christel> it has been Ages
<TheOpenSourcerer> Good idea christel
<christel> JamesTait: see, that would sort of defeat the point! (if it killed you)
 * christel nods
<christel> full of good ideas me!
<brobostigon> good plan batwomen/christel
<christel> \o/
<JamesTait> christel: True. Doesn't do much for my ability to type, either. ;)
<brobostigon> i recieves my NAS 50th year suyvay book today, should be an interesting read.
<christel> JamesTait: i bet! i cant imagine trying to lift dumbells whilst attempting to type :P
<brobostigon> survay*
<davmor2> JamesTait: That's your problem, enjoy your health rather than kicking it and you'll live longer ;)
<brobostigon> build a machine to do the bumbells, and then type.
<JamesTait> christel: I asked for that.
<JamesTait> davmor2: I blame Wii Fit Plus.  And my own bloody-mindedness for wanting to beat it.
<christel> ;)
<davmor2> JamesTait: you could get joggers wrist weights then do really theatrical typing lifting you hands about a 15cm off the keyboard and back that should cover both then
<JamesTait> davmor2: Yeah, but then my kids wouldn't walk past the garage^Woffice door with their mates and go "Whoa!  Look at my dad!  He's lifting *really heavy* weights!" ;)
<christel> hahahaha
<christel> i used to train with this personal trainer who convinced me to go onto his "fighting fit bootcamp"
<christel> where they made us run around with people on stretchers
<christel> it was most peculiar
<christel> (he now spends his days being pretty on GMTV whilst giving fitness advice)
<davmor2> JamesTait: they aren't heavy weights if they are on a dumbell, you might fool your kids but not I :D
<JamesTait> davmor2: You and I both know that, but in the "my dad's harder than your dad" stakes, appearances count. ;)
<christel> (it never involves carrying people on stretchers, i've checked)
<JamesTait> christel: Sounds... fun.
<davmor2> JamesTait: Let me throw you a 45kG gas bottle some time :D
<christel> it actually was quite fun, mainly when it was my turn to lie on the stretcher :D
<JamesTait> davmor2: Sure.  Just be careful to break it into nice, manageable 1kg chunks first. :)
<christel> i am tired.
<JamesTait> (Meanwhile one of my tests has failed in a way that doesn't appear to be related to the changes I made.... so now waiting for the rest of the suite to finish so I can re-run that test and flag it as flaky, if necessary).
<christel> (all this talk about JamesTait working out has worn me out!)
<JamesTait> Heheh.
<davmor2> JamesTait: that would need to be 500g chunks don't forget you have to match steel weight with gas weight :)  90+ KGs of weight for a 45KG gas bottle :D
<JamesTait> davmor2: It should be OK. I'm borrowing brobostigon's machine. ;)
<brobostigon> :(
<christel> hehe
<JamesTait> Right, these tests are taking forever, and I'm hungry and have taxi runs to do.
<JamesTait> So....
 * JamesTait -> lunch
<davmor2> bye JamesTait
 * brobostigon takes his machine back form JamesTait , and gives JamesTait the oldest machine he can find.
<JamesTait> ttfn!
<christel> aw, see what you've done brobostigon .. he got so upset he left :(
<brobostigon> christel: he stole my machine,
<christel> :(
<brobostigon> :(
<brobostigon> agreed.
<christel> not nice :(
<brobostigon> exactly:(
 * christel offers brobostigon a pint
 * brobostigon thanks christel, takes the pint and swigs, and makes agreeable noises.
<christel> \o/
<brobostigon> :)
<bigcalm> You can all stop worrying. I have returned!
<christel> THANK GOD FOR THAT
<christel> i am flat out in the garden soaking up sun whilst drinking beer and listening to kapslap and it has been SO boring without you!
<bigcalm> :O
<christel> ;)
 * bigcalm turns green
<christel> hahahaha
<christel> doesn't really suit you tbh
<bigcalm> I don't think I can be envious any more
<bigcalm> Pretty much all emotions are dulled by the happy pills :)
<daubers> bigcalm is kermit the frog?
<bigcalm> daubers: it's not easy you know
<daubers> bigcalm: Being green or living with Miss Piggy?
<bigcalm> HAha
<christel> aw
<christel> is that good or bad?
<bigcalm> I wouldn't let Hayley see that
<daubers> uh oh
<bigcalm> She is my world
 * daubers hides behind popey 
<brobostigon> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tegra_3#Tegra_3 interesting, that it has that low power companiion core, for lower power modes.
<christel> i like miss piggy
<christel> she's a bit naughty
<bigcalm> :)
 * brobostigon is like monster.
<christel> brobostigon: :D
<bigcalm> I've noshed my cookie
<brobostigon> christel: i play the drums, and i have the wild hair sometimes, and go abit mad.
<christel> \o/
<brobostigon> :)
<christel> someone tried to teach me to play the drums once
<christel> it didn't work
<brobostigon> :(
<christel> apparently i was completely and utterly useless :(
<brobostigon> :(
<brobostigon> christel: i want a drum stick bag, with image of monster on.
<brobostigon> images*
<christel> :D
<brobostigon> :)
<christel> i wilL SEW YOU ONE
<brobostigon> thank you :)
<christel> whilst i am useless with drums i totally rock a sewing machine!
<christel> \o/
<brobostigon> :)
<christel> mind, the guy who tried to teach me to play the drums was certifiedly insane
<christel> he got sectioned actually
<brobostigon> :(
<christel> after attempting to convince people that he was an alien
<christel> shame really, just after he got sectioned the band he was in signed a record deal and had to replace him :S
<brobostigon> :(
<christel> they do fairly nice music
 * christel checks youtube
<christel> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJt6keI3N94
<brobostigon> always reminds me of keith moon, monster does.
<christel> i like monster
<christel> :D
<brobostigon> :)
<JamesTait> I think maybe I should have bought that garden table and chairs at the weekend.
<christel> JamesTait: haha
<christel> brobostigon: do you play in a band btw?
<brobostigon> christel: no.
<christel> aww
<brobostigon> christel: i dont think i am really good enough yet, either.
<christel> :)
<christel> music was huge for me when i was Much Younger
<brobostigon> :)
<christel> my parents were most pleased when i was accepted to study professional performance and composition at the edward grieg academy in bergen
<brobostigon> bergen, cool.
<christel> not as impressed when i spent the next two years smoking pot and drinking red wine before dropping out of uni to travel the world with some longhaired hippie i'd bumped into
<brobostigon> lol, phwell, :(
<christel> (i play the violin and the cello, and a bit of piano and guitar -- and well, not the drums!) :)
<brobostigon> christel: next thing on my list, is the lap steel.
<christel> :D
<brobostigon> but i would have to learn the guitar first i reckon.
<christel> might help!
<brobostigon> yes. i agree.
<christel> these days i suck at playing the guitar
<brobostigon> how much practice ?
<christel> it tends to only come out at 2am after pub when the house is full of drunken people
<brobostigon> lol.
<christel> and everyone has tons of requests and whatever i  try play always turns into that bloody save tonight tune
<christel> (i have no idea why/how)
<christel> i used to be decent i guess -- could pick up pretty much anything from listening -- but when i dropped out of uni i sort of stopped playing pretty much everything
<brobostigon> :(
<christel> how odd.. have i just shared my entire life story with -uk today?
<christel> that doesn't sound wise!
<christel> silly christel :D
<brobostigon> lol :)
 * bigcalm tickles silly christel
 * christel squeals
<christel> WITH THE DELIGHT i hasten to add!
<bigcalm> Hah
<christel> maybe i should mop the floors
<bigcalm> You do have strange ideas of fun
<christel> well, i dunno.. i am BORED
<christel> :P
 * brobostigon is just doing paperwork for tmrw.
<christel> oh paperwork
<christel> i should do some invoicing
<christel> or buy shoes
<christel> hrm hrm
<Myrtti> Mr. Brightside!
<Myrtti> PLAY FREEBIRD!
<christel> I MIGHT beer in the boy's pool!
 * bigcalm pokes USC to download things more quickly
<bigcalm> Actually, it's giving me a steady rate of close to 4MB/s
 * bigcalm pokes VirginMedia to give me more bandwidth
<bigcalm> 4.4GB still takes a while to download
 * dogmatic69 pokes BT and says thanks for the bazillion GB/s internet
<dogmatic69> bigcalm: 4MB/s is okish (for home)
<bigcalm> dogmatic69: it is. I don't really download things that much. Not of size anyway
<bigcalm> But it's handy that it happens quickishly
<popey> can someone on precise please test something for me?
<popey> requires you to be running unity
 * popey tickles AlanBell 
 * AlanBell is on quanta
<AlanBell> l
 * AlanBell lives dangerously
<popey> oh, that'll do
<dogmatic69> popey: if precise is 12.04, I can
<popey> switch to a clean desktop
<popey> open two terminals
<popey> alt+` between them
<popey> as fast as you possibly can
<popey> does a pop up appear
<popey> ?
<popey> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEwiUGMkKVk
<popey> thats what I see - a popup
<dogmatic69> popey: its almost like the alt-tab popup?
<dogmatic69> just fatter
<popey> its the same popup
<popey> but on alt+tab it's supressed if youi're quick
<AlanBell> not reproduced
<dogmatic69> alt-` shows a preview though.
<dogmatic69> alt-tab shows icons
<popey> dogmatic69, do it _really_ quick
<popey> can you both tell me what version of unity you're running?
<popey> apt-cache policy unity | grep Installed
<popey>   Installed: 5.14.0-0ubuntu1
<AlanBell> unity 6.0.0
<popey> AlanBell, what video card? intel?
<dogmatic69> Installed: 5.12-0ubuntu1.1
<AlanBell> yeah, intel core i3 standard stuff
<popey> dogmatic69, can you please enable the precise-proposed repo and update, logout/in and test again?
<popey> 5.14.0-0ubuntu1 is in proposed
<dogmatic69> ok, not sure I can do it right this minute
<popey> ok
<popey> what video card out of interest?
<dogmatic69> only 'popup' for me currently is a similar one to alt-tab
<popey> yeah, its the same
<dogmatic69> nvidia geforce 9800gt
<popey> hmm
<JamesTait> popey: Reproduced here (I see a pop-up, with the highlighted terminal window switching) on unity 5.12-0ubuntu1.1 and nvidia GeForce GT330M.
<popey> JamesTait, thanks, need to check it on 5.14 when you get a moment
<bigcalm> 4.4GB downloaded and now the machine is going nuts installing it
<JamesTait> popey: Noted for later - I'm due a reboot anyway.
<bigcalm> Filesystem         Size  Used Avail Use% Mounted on
<bigcalm> /dev/sda1           52G   48G  2.2G  96% /
<bigcalm> Oh bum
<diplo> :P
<bigcalm> This is what I get for installing games on an SSD
<bigcalm> Yep, it's just hit 100% usage
<bigcalm> Filesystem        1K-blocks      Used Available Use% Mounted on
<bigcalm> /dev/sda1          54313724  52826168         0 100% /
<bigcalm> :|
<diplo> :/
<bigcalm> :\
<diplo> Remove some stuff you don't need ?
<bigcalm> Trying to
<bigcalm> Just deleted the spotify cache and got 500mb back
<bigcalm> 4.5GB in apt's cache
<bigcalm> Can I just empty the directory, or is there a command I should run instead?
<diplo> yeah i tidy mine occasionally
<JamesTait> bigcalm: sudo apt-get autoclean
<bigcalm> Ta
<gord> autoclean just remove packages you don't need installed doesn't it?
<gord> or am i confused
<bigcalm> autoremove I think
<JamesTait> gord: Removes old versions of downloaded package files from the cache.
<bigcalm> But didn't empty the cache :|
<gord> i just rm the cache
<diplo> +1 gord  :)
<JamesTait> Well, you can do sudo apt-get clean
<JamesTait> That should remove everything from the cache, whether there's a newer version or not.  I tend to go that route simply because apt keeps indexes and stuff.
<bigcalm> I've found 4.9GB of space
<bigcalm> That'll do for now
<bigcalm> But I do fear 60GB of SDD in my work station isn't enough :(
<gord> hasn't beenfor me
<diplo> Why not use rust for any big stuff bigcalm ?
<diplo> as popey puts it?
<gord> make sure your music is in some variation of a cloud, that helped for me
<bigcalm> I have a separate server here with my music and dev work on it
<bigcalm> Not sure what's taking up the space on my workstation
<gord> use the disk space usage thing?
<gord> it will tell youwhat is
<diplo> had a friends machine ( not linux ) use up all his space recently, so he just plugged another drive in to use, couldn't format it etc so gave it to me.
<bigcalm> I have 35.1GB in my home directory
<diplo> He'd only used about 20gb on a 250gb disc
<bigcalm> 8.6GB of it is in Thunderbird :|
<diplo> their was 205.1gb of .DMP files from AVG crashing
<diplo> :(
<diplo> blimey bigcalm, lot's of email :D
 * diplo keeps his fairly empty
<bigcalm> diplo: 4 accounts and I don't delete anything
<bigcalm> Oh, found a bit of usage - get iplayer has been running on my workstation instead of the server
<bigcalm> 3.1GB. That can be moved to the server
<popey> :)
<popey> i do love my ssd
<diplo> Blimey, got to keep on top of email. I don't keep anything unless it's 100% needed
<popey> 12G	.thunderbird/
<popey> alan@deep-thought:~$
<popey> haha
<popey> i know someone who keeps all his mail
<popey> every mail he has ever sent or received
<Laney> ME!
<gord> me too, i store it in gmail.com
<christel> i do not, it would tempt me into re-reading it
<christel> never a good idea
<diplo> really, I used to years ago.
<diplo> Then thought why
<mattt> woo, just saw the torch
<mattt> ran right by work
<christel> \o/
<JamesTait> mattt: Is it dark there?  Sunny here.
<christel> freenode staff apparently fail to appreciate my having liquid lunches and are attempting to plot how they can deoper me
<bigcalm> Heh
<christel> :(
<christel> h8rs
<bigcalm> Good luck with that one
<Dave2> :o
<bigcalm> Dave2 will protect you!
<gord> i agree with this course of action, also banned from #u-uk until such time as i am on holidays and can show off
<bigcalm> I think czajkowski would have me bared from IRC while I'm on holiday
<JamesTait> I just realised a few minutes ago I didn't have an Ubuntu-UK circle on G+.  Now rectified.
<christel> but Dave2 is only 2 foot tall
<christel> he couldnt take them all :(
<Dave2> :(
<Dave2> bigcalm: bared or barred?
<christel> BARED
<christel> :D
<christel> AM I IN JamesTait's CIRCLE i wonder?!
 * christel investigates
<diplo> nO!
<diplo> ooer
 * diplo hates working on a system that is CAPS LOCK DEPENDANT!!Â¬Â£""Â£"
<diplo> :(
 * mattt stares at jamestait
<christel> mattt: cute isnt he?
<Dave2> Lock away all of the caps
<mattt> christel: that's one way of putting it
<christel> ;)
<JamesTait> christel: You were the first person in my Ubuntu-UK circle. ;)
<christel> AWWWW
<christel> i feel all special now :D
 * christel swoons
 * christel tells everyone that she was JamesTait's first...
<christel> ;)
<JamesTait> :-P
 * christel hugs JamesTait 
<diplo> She is unstoppable today!
 * diplo thinks too much happy juice
<christel> diplo: hahahaha sorry
<christel> it is The Sun!
<christel> (and the beer)
<diplo> I was sooooo close to going for a liquid lunch
<diplo> But I knew I had to actually work this afternoon and it wouldn't have happened
<christel> you should have done!
<christel> aww
<christel> i should "stop" soon
<christel> i am on beer #4
<diplo> Pub is literally 20 yards from me and a beautiful beer garden
<christel> and at some point i must be Sensible or something
<diplo> Don't do it!
<christel> don't be sensible? oh ok then!
<christel> :D
<diplo> What does your other half think when he comes back and you've been drinking, I'd be jealous :D
<christel> i dunno, he keeps asking me how many beers i've had
<christel> and whether i'll be "pissed right up" when he returns home
<christel> (i suspect he is worried that he has to fend for himself and cook his own dinner!)
<christel> alternatively, he is worried that i'll drink all his beer ;)
<JamesTait> I suspect the latter.
<bigcalm> That sounds more like it
<diplo> The latter would be my worry
 * popey looks forward to AlanBell basting his meat in the sun whilst other people watch
<bigcalm> :O
<popey> \o/ BBQ Saturday
<bigcalm> Oh my
<diplo> oh dear god
<christel> http://i.imgur.com/JF1Fq.png  am not entirely sure he is as amused as i am
<christel> popey: oh deary me
 * diplo thinks popey should rephrase
<diplo> christel: Was was the response? :P
<diplo> What*
<christel> it as "its ok as long as you're not out of control" "like after the real ale train"(!?)
<Twinkletoes> I want to monitor another ubuntu server using nagios, assuming all I need it the nagios-nrpe-plugin package, it looks like it wants to install a full blow nagios server aswell (eg. it want to install nagios3, nagios3-common, nagios3-core etc.)
<christel> i thought i was most behaved after the RAT
<Twinkletoes> Surely I'm doing teh wrong thing here?
<bigcalm> o.O
<diplo> Twinkletoes: Should just need the nrpe package, does on centos.. and I'm sure I've done on ubuntu the same before
<Dave2> Oh yes, I should find out where AlanBell lives. (Even if I have been there before. Unexpectedly.)
<christel> !
<christel> Dave2: you accidentally the whole AlanBell ? :o
<Dave2> I accidentally the whole battery
<Dave2> the whole phone battery
<christel> that's what i feared
<christel> oh.. not the BATTERY CHICKENS?
<Twinkletoes> diplo: Does that look right or wrong to you?   http://paste.ubuntu.com/1108247/
<AlanBell> they are free range!
<Dave2> no
<Dave2> Nor the song Battery by Metallica
<diplo> Twinkletoes: You shouldn't need common / core
<christel> yes, i find chicks are happier when allowed to roam free
<diplo> Tryin g on my home box
<diplo> 2 secs
<christel> ooh metallica
 * christel musics
<diplo> Hmm, already have nagios on there.. try here
<Twinkletoes> diplo: Yeah... that's what I think, but it wants them
 * Dave2 has Battery playing in his head
<Dave2> When they play it live they always get the tempo wrong IME :(
<diplo> Yep, doing the same for me..
<Twinkletoes> diplo: nagios-plugins-basic didn't bring in any dependencies
<Twinkletoes> diplo: aptitude show nagios-plugins pointed me to it
<diplo> bug 927651
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 927651 in nagios-nrpe (Ubuntu) "'nagios-nrpe-plugin' unnecessarily recommends 'nagios3' package" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/927651
<Twinkletoes> Ah!
<diplo> --no-install-recommends seems the way round
<diplo> affects me to
<diplo> Added my name to it
<diplo> Twinkletoes: It used to work fine on 10* when I last used it, but I monitor CentOS boxes or RH based distros 99% of the time
<diplo> Could use snmp if the no install recommends doesn't work ?
<Twinkletoes> diplo: hmm....
<diplo> Seems to only install plugins with above option ( Just installing here )
<Twinkletoes> diplo: But something needs to listen on the default port 5666.  is that happening gor you?
<diplo> Nope
 * Twinkletoes growls
 * Twinkletoes might just download from source
<christel> 15:15  (lacroix) I like to drink beer with a shot of white tequilla in it
<christel> must be tried
 * christel looks for tequila
<diplo> Will check Twinkletoes, sorry on the phone atm
<Twinkletoes> diplo: Cheers :)
<diplo> yeah it seems to be missing the daemon/config to go with said daemon
<diplo> I think it's been packaged wrong
<diplo> ah, nrpe-server
<diplo> yeah that's what you want as well
<Twinkletoes> diplo: The description of that package is mmisl;eading then
<diplo> So nrpe-server grabs nrpe-plugins, snmp and a few other deps
<Twinkletoes> diplo: Lemme see
<diplo> Just installing here now
<Twinkletoes> diplo: much better - thank you
<diplo> that's defo not very clear, and defo broken package
<diplo> Did you add yourself to affected package on launchpad ?
<Twinkletoes> diplo: no, still have the page open though
<diplo> Gets it more noticed i guess
<Twinkletoes> diplo: Ok, added :)
<popey> AlanBell, bah! that digitalsurrey thing in farnham is the same day/time as the ubuntuonair thing :(
<popey> one day I'll get to go to DS
<diplo> AlanBell: How many peeps going to yours on Sat ?
<diplo> popey: Did you want my Virgin hardware (V+ / Old box ) still ?
<AlanBell> diplo: not entirely sure
<bigcalm> You'd still need a card to go with it
<popey> i do
<bigcalm> Or replace a V box with the V+ box
<bigcalm> Would be nice to do that in our bedroom
<popey> that was the plan :)
<diplo> OK AlanBell, well it seems I've gone from "Maybe" to definite now.
<diplo> As long as I can find this v+ box for popey :)
 * JamesTait melts
<christel> oh no :(
 * brobostigon pours liquid nitrogen over JamesTait 
 * christel breaks off a piece 
<brobostigon> lol
<christel> (and another)
<christel> :x
<christel> popey: sok! i can go and pretend to be you, i have a wig! when is it? ;)
<popey> what are you babbling about christel ?
<JamesTait> Um, thanks brobostigon. I think.
<JamesTait> christel: Hold onto those. They'll be worth something some day.
<brobostigon> JamesTait: it was an attempt at cooling you down, :), you're welcome, :)
<christel> popey: digital surrey silly!
<popey> ah
<christel> but you're probably talking about the thing on thursday, so i might be in norway (if the boy wonder's passport arrives tomorrow -- cutting it fine)
<christel> and if i am not then they have no more tickets left! boo
<gord> ice-cream vans have it all wrong, it needs to be reversed. be like a takeout so i can call up the ice-cream place and have them deliver the ice-cream
<christel> YES
<christel> i approve of this petition, where do i sign?
<gord> also, all delivery vans should have music playing so you know when they are here
 * christel nods
<christel> which reminds me, i am awaiting a delivery WHICH HAS FAILED TO ARRIVE
<christel> (well i guess technically it is due by 6)
<bigcalm> Anybody here played Psychonauts installed via the USC?
<bigcalm> I've noticed that some in-game videos aren't playing (in Basic Braining so far). Compared to the Windows version
<JamesTait> gord: Reminds me of my first sprint in Buenos Aires.  We had ice cream delivered to the apartment.
<christel> !
 * christel moves
<gord> in belgium we ordered pizza but it took hours to arrive, so to appologise we got two bottles of red wine for free, i like that pizza place
<christel> i once ordered chinese in utrecht.. and i'd ordered egg fried rice
<christel> it was rice with a whole fried egg on top
<christel> that totally confused me
<gord> that i not how you make egg fried rice at all
<Laney> egg(,) fried (+) rice
 * christel tickles Laney 
<bigcalm> HAha
<dogmatic69> cpu temp normally: 40'C, cpu temp today: 60'C
 * dogmatic69 is busy melting
<daubers> dogmatic69: Solve it with fire!
<JamesTait> brobostigon: dogmatic69 needs you. ;)
<dogmatic69> server fans at 70%, normally 49%
<christel> how did i parse dogmatic69 as dogtanian?
 * brobostigon also goes for a swim in the liquid nitrogen.
 * christel starts breaking off parts of brobostigon too
 * brobostigon puts a vat of liquid nitrogen in u-uk garden.
 * JamesTait imagines christel's house with a collection of body parts.
 * brobostigon is special, he wont freeze, therefore christel not being able to do that.
<christel> JamesTait: :D
<christel> i shall turn it into a museum
<christel> :D
<christel> brobostigon: aw
<brobostigon> christel: :)
 * JamesTait offers another appendage to compensate.
<daubers> !ohmy
<lubotu3> Please remember that all Ubuntu IRC channels share the same attitude of providing friendly and polite interaction with all users of all ages and cultures. Basically, this means no foul language and no abuse towards others.
<daubers> :p
<christel> JamesTait: ;)
<christel> daubers: hahaha it was a foot, honest
<christel> ;)
<JamesTait> I was thinking of an arm, actually.
<christel> oh i already have an arm from earlier
<JamesTait> christel: So that would make me 'armless!
<christel> it would :(
<christel> sorry
<christel> no more weightlifting for you
<christel> unless.. well.. you use your feet
<bigcalm> Bottle of water in the freezer for half an hour has worked out perfectly
 * bigcalm is refreshed
<christel> :D
<christel> i might have to go LOCATE MORE beer
<brobostigon> :)
<christel> then i shall BBQ some quails eggs wrapped in pancetta
<brobostigon> very long liquid lunch.
<christel> YES
<christel> :D
 * christel beers brobostigon 
 * brobostigon thanks christel and makes agreeable noises as he slurps.
<brobostigon> :)
<christel> <3
<brobostigon> :)
<JamesTait> So, when I finish work, who here should I add to my OggCampers circle?
<christel> aw i wish i was oggcamping this year
<Flashtek> o/
<Flashtek> Anyone good with cups ?
 * JamesTait just realised the flaw in the plan.
<JamesTait> Flashtek: I'm good at drinking stuff out of them.
<Flashtek> Anyone good with c.u.p.s. ?
<Flashtek> JamesTait: :-P
<JamesTait> That reminds me of C.H.I.P.S.
<bigcalm> A new chippy local to us is apparently serving cheesy chips
<bigcalm> Will have to investigate
<Flashtek> bigcalm: get me some ?
<bigcalm> One of the best things I discovered while in Glasgow some years ago
<Flashtek> cheesy chips are awesome
<Flashtek> i put them on a menu of a fast food join in Exeter many years ago
<christel> chips \o/
<brobostigon> :)
<christel> with cheese :D
<Flashtek> c.h.i.p.s.w/c.h.e.e.s.e.
<christel> wooo it is almost christmas \o/
<Azelphur> just a little longer...
<Azelphur> also save me, it's 37C in my room
<christel> haha
 * christel offers Azelphur a fan
<Azelphur> I am actually hugging a fan right now xD
<bigcalm> christel: you scared the servers into splitting
<Azelphur> still rising too, 37.5 now \o/
<christel> bigcalm: :(
<christel> i cant fix it either
<bigcalm> Bottoms
<christel> 17:24 !pratchett.freenode.net *** Notice -- spb (~stephen@freenode/developer/exherbo.spb) is now an operator
<christel> 17:25 !holmes.freenode.net spb is deopering you.
<christel> 17:25 !holmes.freenode.net *** Notice -- spb!~stephen@freenode/developer/exherbo.spb{pratchett.freenode.net} is deopering christel.
<christel> because apparently i am not sober and therefore not allowed to irc!
<christel> :P
<bigcalm> Haha
<bigcalm> That sounds reasonable
<bigcalm> So what if you run the joint? ;P
<christel> nil respect for authority innit
<bigcalm> Erk!
<bigcalm> 6pm
<bigcalm> Time for me to go and walk Hayley's dog with her
<bigcalm> Toodles for now :)
<JamesTait> bigcalm: o/
<christel> ta ta
<bigcalm> \o
<JamesTait> These flies are driving me insane, especially with the warmer weather.
<JamesTait> I think I'm going to start breeding spiders.
<Flashtek> get a cat
<brobostigon> spiders dont need feedting etc, and spiders create less waste byproducts.
<brobostigon> and a spider cant attack you.
<christel> SPIDERS :D
<gord> but then you'll need something to catch the cat that ate the spider that caught the fly, oh no, maybe you'll die
<christel> oh i wonder what happened to the spider i stole
<JamesTait> Flashtek: I have six.
<christel> six spiders?
<christel> oh cats
<JamesTait> christel: Cats. :)
<JamesTait> I have three spiders in my eyeline from where I'm currently sat.
<JamesTait> I need to flog them harder, they're slacking.
<directhex> BURN YOUR HOUSE DOWN
<gord> spiders are cute :P
<christel> :D
<christel> yes! <3 spiders
<christel> ./1
<directhex> BURN YOUR STREET DOWN
<MartijnVdS> disco inferno?
<christel> :D
<popey> JamesTait, i began clearing out my garage at the weekend
<popey> i am considering having a "build, beer and bbq" party
<JamesTait> popey: Excellent! :)
<JamesTait> popey: Will we see photos on $SOCIAL_NETWORK?
<popey> yeah
<popey> i haven't taken any yet
<popey> could be webcammable
<MartijnVdS> how un-popey of you ;)
<JamesTait> I'm just awaiting a final insurance payment to get started with insulating my garage roof.
<JamesTait> Sorry, *office* roof.
<JamesTait> ;)
<JamesTait> I've also been told that when I'm off work in a couple of weeks, we'll be clearing out a lot of the stuff in here.
<JamesTait> Which suits me just fine.  There's a lot of stuff that doesn't belong in here.
<popey> i still need to find homes for some stuff
<JamesTait> Yeah, me too.  I'll need more bookshelves, and a couple of crates to put some stuff in.  A few trips to the tip, no doubt.
<JamesTait> And a couple of bits will be taken out of storage and put back into use. :)
<JamesTait> Right, I think it's time for me to do one.
<JamesTait> Have a great evening, all!
 * JamesTait waves
<brobostigon> o/
<SinCity25> hi
 * bigcalm has returned (again)
<christel> hullu bigcalm
<bigcalm> Howdie doodie christel :)
<Azelphur> is there a way I can have a machine run a command when someone connects to SSH?
<Twinkletoes|H> I simply can't remember how to configure users in postfix, without adding them to /etc/passwd.  Any ideas?
<brobostigon> anyone familer with dokuwiki? how do i change the expiery period to which when you login, it logs you out again?
<ahayzen> brobostigon, there is auth_security_timeout (Authentication Security Timeout (seconds)) under the admin section, don't know if that will solve your issue.
<brobostigon> ahayzen: what will that option specifically change?
<ahayzen> i'm not sure
<brobostigon> ok, i wont chan ge it then.
<ahayzen> just seemed to be the only one which looked close to your question when scanning through the config
<brobostigon> ok.
<JamesTait> popey: 5.14.0-0ubuntu1 on Precise, the Alt-` switch with two terminal windows just switches (no pop-up) when I do it quickly.
<JamesTait> popey: nvidia GT330M with binary blob drivers.
 * christel puts JamesTait to bed
 * JamesTait splutters
<christel> i er.. it is late you should be in bed!
<christel> :P
<JamesTait> I probably should.
 * christel nods
<JamesTait> I have a strained relationship with sleep.
<christel> aww whys that
<JamesTait> Just one more thing to try, then I'll go to bed, I promise.
<JamesTait> (That's why)
<christel> hahaha
<christel> have you tried going to bed? :D
<JamesTait> Don't be daft, why would I want to do that? :)
<christel> dunno, might help develop a better relationship with sleep ;)
<JamesTait> I don't really know why, I just seem to have this notion that there's so much left to discover, improve, fix, etc., that sleep seems like time wasted.
<JamesTait> I know it's necessary and all the rest of it, but I just seem to have this mental block.
<christel> haha
#ubuntu-uk 2012-07-25
<JamesTait> And then in the morning, when I wake up, sometimes I feel like death warmed up, and then I understand why I need more sleep.
<christel> bless
<christel> you are mad <3
<JamesTait> I'm aware of this fact, and quite comfortable with it.
<christel> hehe
<christel> WELL, i shall go sleep for both of us! you stay up debugging things m'dear <3
<JamesTait> Time for a reboot anyway. :)
<JamesTait> 'night all!
<JamesTait> Sleep well christel. :)
<christel> thank you, and yooou!
<JamesTait> Oh, I will. :)
<directhex> http://www.l4d.com/coldstream/
<christel> gooood morning :)
<jacobw> morning
<christel> morning jacobw \o, TheOpenSourcerer \o
<TheOpenSourcerer> morning all
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<diplo> Morning all
<brobostigon> morning diplo
<diplo> How are you this fine morning brobostigon ?
<diplo> Cycled in this morning \o/
<brobostigon> diplo: not so hot, still unwell, but alot to do today, so pain killers and perservierence. and you?
<diplo> Just a little tired from the cycle, not far but the heat is already a killer out there
<brobostigon> yes.
<TheOpenSourcerer> purlese don't complain about it being hot & sunny.
<TheOpenSourcerer> We don't want to go back to three months of rain now do we?
<brobostigon> i will complain TheOpenSourcerer, as it wreacks my eczema.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Isn't the humidity good for it?
<brobostigon> it certains stops it from drying out, yes, but not excessivly like this, because then i sweat, and it becomes very irritated.
<diplo> TheOpenSourcerer: Not complaining, just saying
<diplo> I love this weather
<brobostigon> also, when there is heat like this, my skin tends get more infection.
<diplo> Apart from watching The Dark Knight last night in cinema with no aircon!!!!
<christel> i for one am very much welcoming the weather!
<christel> my tomato plants are most happy \o/
<MartijnVdS> Tomato plants are carnivorous
<MartijnVdS> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/wildlife/6727709/Tomatoes-can-eat-insects.html
<christel> !
<TheOpenSourcerer> Even my chilli plants have started to grow...
<TheOpenSourcerer> :-D
<christel> :D
<MartijnVdS> and it's not even chilly!
<diplo> christel: Beer and sunbathing the job for today again ?
<christel> diplo: ah i wish!
<christel> i think i have to do some Real Work today :(
<diplo> heh
<diplo> Main reason I've cycled today is to go out for a huge lunch, cycle 4-5 miles along canal, have lunch and cycle back
<christel> :D
<diplo> Maybe a pint or two
<christel> i approve of this plan!
<diplo> I've just remembered one flaw in my plan :/
<christel> oh no :(
<diplo> I need to pick my dad up later to take him to get his car from the garage, not sure he'd like my handlebars :D
<christel> hahaha
<christel> <3
<christel> "oops"
 * directhex moos
<diplo> Blimey, your keen directhex, saw you online at the 4am mark ?
<diplo> Or was that a wakeup call from the young one ?
<christel> i might mow the lawn before i start work
 * diplo really needs his done.
<diplo> May force myself to stay at home tonight just to do it.
<christel> it is one of my least favourite things to do!
<diplo> And mine!
<christel> but if i leave it any longer i suspect i'd need a scythe :)
<diplo> Also need to trim the bushy things
<christel> ah i got a Man out to trim my hedge and weed my beds the other week.. (because i can't tell the difference between weeds and Good Plants)
<MartijnVdS> Can anyone confirm this one? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/totem/+bug/1028772
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 1028772 in totem (Ubuntu) "Repeatedly hiding/showing the controls (Ctrl+H) shrinks the video display size" [Undecided,New]
 * TheOpenSourcerer strimmed and mowed on Saturday :-) Front garden now looks something like this: https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos/instantupload/5755403322243260578
<MartijnVdS> Repeatedly pressing Ctrl+H while watching a video with totem shrinks the video
<christel> TheOpenSourcerer: your garden looks most tidy!
<christel> :)
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: that links to my instantupload pics?
<MartijnVdS> or maybe I'm not in the right circles :)
<AlanBell> morning all
<ali1234> no it links to my instant upload pics etc
<christel> MartijnVdS: https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-wp_yr2_zaD8/T-OI2ACgZuI/AAAAAAAACy8/dTF_kc8HyUo/w497-h373/20120618_080744.jpg try that one
<MartijnVdS> ooh very tidy
<christel> mm i am ever so slightly envious
<christel> my garden is full of TOYS
<christel> and tall grass...
<diplo> MartijnVdS: I had a similar issue, it was because google had logged me out.
<diplo> Logged in, link worked fine
 * directhex moos again
<MartijnVdS> diplo: I'm still logged in -- I get _my_ private "instant upload" page
<diplo> yeah, that's odd :/
<czajkowski> aloha
<TheOpenSourcerer> Potentially worrying development http://www.zdnet.com/microsoft-inks-patent-deal-with-service-provider-using-linux-servers-7000001498/ Be nice to know what the background to this is? What are the patents? Why did Amdocs roll over and take it like that?
<directhex> TheOpenSourcerer, naming patents destroys their power
<directhex> TheOpenSourcerer, the aim is to keep things vague
<TheOpenSourcerer> I agree, but presumably Amdocs didn't  just go "Oh we do infringe some of your patents? Sorry. How much do you want then?"
<TheOpenSourcerer> B&N Argued the toss and ended up getting money from MS!
<directhex> TheOpenSourcerer, "you could pay patent insurance for Â£X, or we could tell you which patents in the court filings for 176 x Â£X, your call"
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<christel> morning bigcalm :)
<bigcalm> christel: being greeted by you is a good way to start the day
<christel> haha
<christel> <3
 * AlanBell is off to the Olympics Opening Ceremony later
<jacobw> directhex: patents are like Voldemort?
<bigcalm> AlanBell: good luck!
<bigcalm> Something keeps killing mysqld on my bytemark server. But I can't work out what. Nothing in mysql's logs or syslog
<bigcalm> Anybody with other ideas?
<DJones> AlanBell: I thought it was Friday
<directhex> jacobw, yes. worse than that, if you violate a patent unknowingly the penalty legally is X, if you check to see whether you violate any patents first and decide "no" or "yes but i don't care" (there's no legal difference between those two) then it's much higher than X. it's legally safer not to know whether you violate patents
<AlanBell> DJones: ah, but special people get to go today
<TheOpenSourcerer> jacobw: Software Patents approved in the USA are mostly stupid. Patents in general are not a bad idea, as long as they really do protect "Inventions"
<DJones> Heh
<DJones> AlanBell: So you were the person G4S employed for security
<jacobw> directhex: /o\
<bigcalm> Hehe
<christel> haha
<directhex> TheOpenSourcerer, patents are a limited government-granted monopoly. like copyrights, the terms should only be a couple of years in this millennium, not getting longer
<brobostigon> i think headwear would be a good idea today.
<diplo> bigcalm: Issue with resources is the only thing I'd have a guess at ?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Pharmaceutical Co.s who spend billions and tens of years developing new drugs are the kind of area where patents are relevant. Not for some blokes idea to make a tablet with rounded corners.
<bigcalm> diplo: 31GB of space available
<diplo> I meant mem/cpu
<popey> morning
<TheOpenSourcerer> lo popey
<christel> i hate patents, with a passion
<christel> (though this might be because the ones i come across are ridiculously complicated)
 * popey might have lunch in the park in farnham today
<bigcalm> diplo: mysqld is currently taking 14% of the system's memory, but that's because I've just started it back up
<bigcalm> Morning popey!
<popey> TheOpenSourcerer, there's still wifi on the bandstand isnt there?
<MartijnVdS> If not, there's always 3G
 * TheOpenSourcerer wonders if there is not a suitable park in Farnborough for popey
<popey> nah, its just that the kids are going there
<popey> thought I'd go along
<TheOpenSourcerer> popey: I have no idea. Is there?
<popey> http://www.farnham.gov.uk/life/news/article/325.html
<diplo> bigcalm: Looked into whether mysql can log it's processes more verbosely ?
<bigcalm> diplo: server isn't under any real load: 0.02, 0.06, 0.06
<diplo> Just having a quick google now
<TheOpenSourcerer> Nice. TY popey
<TheOpenSourcerer> I will remember that.
<bigcalm> diplo: thing is I never know when it actually dies. It's one of my parents' friends that emails me when their site stops working
<christel> oh pretty neat, i didn't know that
<popey> thats one of the reasons we had the geeknic around it at oggcamp
<diplo> nagios and monitor it?
 * bigcalm goes to camp in Farnham
<christel> hehe
<bigcalm> diplo: I guess so. Never used nagios before though :)
<bigcalm> popey: I had no idea about the free wifi for the geeknick. Needs more publicising
<AlanBell> popey: yes, the free wifi in gostrey meadow works great
<jacobw> bigcalm: does upstart restart the process?
<bigcalm> jacobw: it's meant to I guess
<christel> bah today appears to be one of those days where my mug is leaking.. it keeps being empty :(
<directhex> Mark Zuckerberg, the man who some believe has done more to erode privacy than anyone else, has been awarded his first ever patent â¦ for privacy. Patent #8,225,376 limits what users reveal online by implementing a privacy policy on their status updates and profile information.
<directhex> \o/
 * daubers wonders if he can patent a method of protecting the revenue stream for commonly implimented technologies
<jacobw> hehe
<diplo> bigcalm: Sorry was on the phone
<diplo> Can give you a hand if you want to set it up
<bigcalm> Wow, it doesn't look simple to setup :)
<diplo> It's actually quite simple tbh
<diplo> It's just a pain for the first time to look at it :)
<bigcalm> Ok :)
 * bigcalm stops googling for howtos
<diplo> basically on initial install you will have a localhost.cfg in /etc/nagios/objects ( I think )
<diplo> and nagios.cfg in /etc/nagios
<diplo> So copy localhost and call it mysql-mums.cfg or something
<freckle> bigcalm: If you are going to start using Nagios then nagstamon is a great little app fpr the desktop
<diplo> then edit nagios.cfg to load the new cfg
<bigcalm> freckle: this is for a VPS
<diplo> And restart nagios
<diplo> that's about as simple as it needs to be, you can make it a lot more involved :)
<freckle> bigcalm: yes, it sits on your desktop and alerts you when there is an issue reported by your nagios
<bigcalm> I see
<BigRedS> bigcalm: there's also the Nagios firefox plugin
<BigRedS> I used nagstamon for a bit but it was much more prone to random behaviour than the plugin
<diplo> Either install nagios nrpe or use check_by_ssh
<bigcalm> nagios3 from the repositories?
<BigRedS> also, anag on android seems brilliant
<diplo> Yep bigcalm
<bigcalm> Ta
<diplo> sh-3.2$ /usr/lib/nagios/plugins/check_by_ssh -H 192.168.1.16 -landy -C uptime
<diplo> heh
 * diplo is actually playing atm
<freckle> never had an issue with nagstamon
<freckle> there is a plugin for mysql in nagios.. use it to check status of replication
<bigcalm> It's just installed samba :|
<freckle> bigcalm: better to complile from source for that very reason
<bigcalm> Too late :D
<diplo> Nooooo don't compile from source!
<diplo> I really don't understand why people still do, not worth the hassle
<freckle> diplo: it's callled freedom :)
<diplo> Thinking of all the services i monitor and all the servers i monitor, I've never bothered with mysql.. guess we haven't had any issues
<diplo> Yeah, also a PITA :)
<freckle> diplo: not for me
<popey> bigcalm, I'd recommend OpsView over nagios
<freckle> when you have a bunch of mysql with 2 way replication and queries per second in the high 100's you want to monitor
<diplo> Not compiled anything for everyday use since Qmail for mail server many years ago
<diplo> yeah that's a different usercase i guess
<diplo> I would think about it then as well, but generally I'd advise most people to install from repos for stuff like this.
 * bigcalm grumbles at computers
<bigcalm> popey: reasons?
<popey> easier to configure
<popey> its based on nagios
<freckle> you could write your own monitoring system like we did at work with SNMP ;)
<diplo> Also Icinga, Web2.0 style.. also based on nagios
<diplo> That's what we used to do before Nagios and something beginning with C that I've forgotten
<diplo> perl scripts and snmp modules
<diplo> Centreon
<BigRedS> "perl scripts and snmp modules" roughly describes Nagios :)
<diplo> heh, pretty much yeah.. not sure whether we hadn't heard of it or what before
<JamesTait> Good morning all! :)
<diplo> I suggested Nagios after seeing a supplier and them offering us WhatsUp Gold ? Maybe for like 20k
<christel> GOOD MORNING JamesTait \o/
<oimon> maclaren buggy company won't send me a spare part (a screw) to fix my buggy. the consequence is that i buy a dodgy one off ebay - what's worse?
<JamesTait> christel: o/
<gord> the buggy has a bug?
<oimon> yes :(
<christel> :(
<diplo> Gaffer tape oimon, it fixes all!
<oimon> they say i have to get it fixed by a repair centre. it's a flipping screw!
<christel> haha
<oimon> how can i get to the repair centre without a working buggy
<diplo> My friends 58 plate S-Max's bumper is held together with it at the moment whilst our MD decides how he wants to procede, now been two months
<diplo> :D
<nja> Hello
 * bigcalm gives up and gets on with work
 * nja wonders if people actually speak in this IRC
<diplo> nah we are all bots here
<diplo> Hi nja
<diplo> :)
 * BigRedS types
<christel> irc is for being quiet ;)
<BigRedS> actually, of late, that is a lie
<BigRedS> but sometimes I type
<diplo> Most of are at work I guess, so responses vary
<nja> So, what are we all doing?
<diplo> Working.... sorta kinda like :)
<nja> suuuuure... "Working"
<christel> hehe
<christel> counting down till lunch time!
<christel> ;)
<diplo> Well I have about 8 terminals open, it *looks* like I'm working at least + typing into a console for IRC makes it all the more believable
<christel> ;)
<diplo> 4 of those terminals are for my own machines doesn't come into it :D
<nja> So, what happens in Ubuntu UK?
<christel> sometimes we talk about ubuntu, sometimes we talk about beer, sometimes we drink beer and talk about ubuntu and sometimes we make fun of bigcalm
 * christel nods
<jacobw> diplo: I have to work with WhatsUp Gold
<nja> @christel sound, erm fun...
<bigcalm> christel: don't you mean bigclam?
<christel> bigcalm ;)
<bigcalm> I should put that on highlight really
<bigcalm> Just for you, christel :P
<christel> yes!
<christel> it is almost christmas, why hasn't AlanBell arranged a christmas do yet!
<bigcalm> Very good question
<nja> Does Ubuntu UK do any actual IRL meets, or is it all IRC?
<gord> don't say it is almost christmas... it just was christmas
<bigcalm> nja: re recently went on the RAT and drank lots of ale
 * jacobw processes these statements
<bigcalm> About 12 of us in our group
<christel> nja: we do stuff irl yes -- we always do stuff when its release day and we have random social gatherings (geeknics, pub visits, meals etc)
<christel> this saturday there's an ubuntu-uk bbq in farnham (surrey)
<christel> :)
<nja> :D
<jacobw> nja: There's also a mailing list and a podcast
<bigcalm> I wonder if there should be a mini-event in September...
<nja> What happens in the Aylesbury branch, because that's the only one I can get to.
<directhex> sadly aylesbury is aylesbury
<christel> i'm not sure whether there are (m)any social events in bucks tbh -- though i am sure we could do a happy hour there!
<nja> hmm. OK
<bigcalm> !opsview
<bigcalm> !info opsview
<lubotu3> Package opsview does not exist in precise
<bigcalm> :(
<nja> How do I see what events are coming up?
<bigcalm> nja: join the mailing list is one option :)
<christel> http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ will usually also list them
<bigcalm> nja: http://loco.ubuntu.com/teams/ubuntu-uk is another option
<nja> Ah, that looks legit.
<bigcalm> More specifically: http://loco.ubuntu.com/teams/ubuntu-uk/events
<bigcalm> Though not all events get posted there for some reason :|
<AlanBell> anyone can post stuff there
<AlanBell> who is a member of the launchpad team
<bigcalm> Remember that nobody is paid to do this :D
<nja> Where is this Launchpad team and how hard is it to join?
<christel> nja: the url bigcalm posted, you just need to create a launchpad account :)
<nja> @christel Wouldn't it be on the launchpad website
<nja> @christel Wouldn't it be on the launchpad website?
<nja> Found it!
<bigcalm> Create a launchpad account and then you can join ubuntu teams
<bigcalm> The magic of the Single Sign On :D
<nja> I already have a launchpad account, so that's fine.
<MartijnVdS> Shingle Shine On
<nja> Hmm, one that LastPass seems to have the wrong password for.  Dammit.
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: channelling Sean Connery?
<nja> OooOo iCal feed.
<nja> So, what programming languages do we do here?
<nja> Me: Java, PHP, HTML, JavaScript, Python, MySql, Used to do C (Kinda forgotten it...)
<gord> Spectrum BASIC
<daubers> gord: \o/
<daubers> Spectrum BASIC was the king of all BASIC
<daubers> ANyone who thinks BBC BASIC was can take it outside for a round of fisticuffs
<gord> i wish my keyboard was setup like the spectrum, so you could press a key and it would put in the entire command
<MartijnVdS> GW-BASIC!
<nja> Only Britain...  http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2178173/Train-drivers-ordered-stop-Olympic-Park-decrepit-overhead-cables-installed-1950s-cope-heat.html
<nja> Mainly the last bit
<nja> Twenty Twelve need to do another series.
<freckle> nja: I really think that.
<Twinkletoes> Good morning :)
<nja> Back to Ubuntu stuffs: "You are here because Launchpad uses the Launchpad Login Service."
<nja> No kidding
<Twinkletoes> Creating public/private key pair.  How does ssh know what file name to use for the private key?
<directhex> Twinkletoes, id_rsa.pub for pubkey, id_rsa for private
<Twinkletoes> directhex: Yeah... thank you... but how does ssh know that?
<Twinkletoes> directhex: Sorry, I've just found it... man ssh
<Twinkletoes> directhex: I was previously looking in man sshd_config DUH!
<nja> Woop!  LaunchPad has now let me join Ubuntu UK! :D
<christel> most kind of launchpad! ;
<christel> ;)
<nja> Irony,  Ubuntu UK mailing list only supports English (USA)...
<christel> hehe
<nja> bye
<christel> bye bye nja
<diplo> Sorry jacobw, got stuck on the phone. And you like it ? ( Whats up Gold )
<davmor2> Morning all
<bigcalm> Morning davmor2
<davmor2> bigcalm: still with the old car :(
<bigcalm> Boo
<bigcalm> You're getting impatient about a new toy
<davmor2> bigcalm: indeed, it's driving me nuts now I know the money has left my account
<bigcalm> Should have gone there and paid by debit card
<MartijnVdS> cash!
<christel> hehe
<christel> yes! in coins
<MartijnVdS> 2p ones
<directhex> not legal tender.
<christel> yeah! i'm with MartijnVdS
 * christel nods
<christel> aw
<MartijnVdS> 2p coins aren't legal tender?
<directhex> 10 2p coins are legal tender
<directhex> 11 or more are not
<directhex> http://www.royalmint.com/aboutus/policies-and-guidelines/legal-tender-guidelines
<MartijnVdS> weird :)
 * bigcalm wants to see a 11p coin
<bigcalm> Oh, I miss-read
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: they don't HAVE to accept, but they could accept it :)
<diplo> directhex: I never knew that
<davmor2> bigcalm: you filled in your form for tonight, and don't forget it ;)
<diplo> I've done it on multiple occasions ( especially when I was younger and trying to afford to smoke )
<bigcalm> davmor2: I printed it off when I got Ron's email
<bigcalm> Dated 18th
<bigcalm> Now the trick is not to forget it
<MartijnVdS> pound coins are more fun anyway
<MartijnVdS> heavier ;)
<MartijnVdS> directhex: and they're valid for any amount :)
<davmor2> bigcalm: fill it in and put it in your car now!
<bigcalm> davmor2: the fact that I said dated 18th indicated that I had filled it in
<christel> oh did it now
<christel> :o
<davmor2> bigcalm: no it indicates that you 1. have a computer in front of you 2. have the ability to tell the date of an email 3. still doesn't indicate it is filled in :D
<bigcalm> Bah :P
<bigcalm> christel: it did in my mind
<christel> :P
<diplo> directhex: just saw your tweet about SS3 on steam, well I'm now defo interested!
 * diplo likes a bit of Serious Sam
<directhex> i got a bit bored, 66% of the way through... but supporting games on linux is very important to me
<directhex> it's how i got into linux in the first place
<bigcalm> They did a 3rd game?!
<diplo> Doing*
<dogmatic69> lol, I thought evolution was broken
<bigcalm> \o/
<gord> they also remade the first two
<diplo> Released sometime this year
<gord> but the third game added iron sights so i'm not interested
<dogmatic69> turns out they just finished the unity integration properly
<diplo> yeah bought them in *HD* gord :)
<bigcalm> gord: aye, I have the HD versions for both
<gord> don't say HD :P
<gord> its a pc game, i was running the originals HD
<diplo> heh
<directhex> er, 4th game
<directhex> serious sam the first encounter, serious sam the 2nd encounter, serious sam 2, serious sam 3
 * bigcalm scratches his head
<directhex> bigcalm, gta, gta2, gta3, gta:vc, gta:sa, gta4!
<bigcalm> directhex: good point
<directhex> windows 7 is windows version 6.1 :D
<directhex> serious sam games did traditionally get linux ports
<MartijnVdS> Wasn't XP 5.1?
<MartijnVdS> and 95 4?
<directhex> http://liflg.org/torrents/serious.sam.tfe_1.05beta3-english-2.run.torrent for SS:TFE installer, http://liflg.org/torrents/serious.sam.tse_1.07beta1-english-2.run.torrent for SS:TSE, http://liflg.org/torrents/serious.sam2_2.070beta2.1-multilanguage.dvd.run.torrent for SS2
<directhex> MartijnVdS, correct on both counts!
<directhex> xp 64-bit was 5.2 though
<MartijnVdS> hence the tons of incompatibilities?
<directhex> yes. 5.2 is the server 2003 version number, so most apps checking the version would refuse to install on a "server os"
 * MartijnVdS has new shininess: https://plus.google.com/100189567362844794281/posts/ERNWNmFK96W
<directhex> win7 was numbered 6.1 so any apps checking for vista support (6) would work
<MartijnVdS> There was some legal reason for a Windows version number
<MartijnVdS> was it NT 3.51 or 4?
<MartijnVdS> Something about a "3"-version of Windows and IBM
<nja> poor you, I'm back...
<directhex> scrollback doesn't suggest i should feel overly upset
<christel> hehe
<christel> welcome back nja :)
<MartijnVdS> Ni-Nja?
<nja> @MartijnVdS Some people call me ninja.  Can't think why...
<nja> @ tags are still visible to everyone right?#
<MartijnVdS> tags?
<MartijnVdS> everything you say is visible
<MartijnVdS> muahaha
<TheOpenSourcerer> any sql gurus in da 'ouse?
<nja> OK,  just making sure I am replying correctly
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: ask away
<nja> I speak SQL @TheOpenSourcerer
<nja> Now that I did tag wrong
<MartijnVdS> nja: natively?
<TheOpenSourcerer> I need some advice on joins etc.
<BigRedS>  you speak SQL *at* him? Poor TheOpenSourcerer
<MartijnVdS> nja: just mention people's names, it's not Twitter :)
<BigRedS> :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Might need to do some patebining
<TheOpenSourcerer> hang on.
 * MartijnVdS hangs on
<nja> @MartijnVdS WHAT?!?
<nja> Not Twitter!
<MartijnVdS> à² _à²  @ nja
<nja> It's what my IRC client likes best so I'll obey it.
<TheOpenSourcerer> This http://paste.ubuntu.com/1109867/ gets me a list of records that I want.
<TheOpenSourcerer> I have another table which has a column called related_to that has some records (more than one) that will match the crmid values. How do I write the correct join statement?
<TheOpenSourcerer> When I try I end up with millions of rows of dupes ;-(
<TheOpenSourcerer> The query above returns about 2.5k rows
<nja> Never tried joins before so I wouldn't trust my advice if I were you.
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: so you want the records from the other table, or just the ones from vtiger_crmentity that are referred to?
<BigRedS> TheOpenSourcerer: I don't do much SQL, but how are you expecting it to know which related_to it wants you to match up with teh first table?
<TheOpenSourcerer> I want the list of records in table2 that have an id in the related_to column that matches a value in the result of my first query.
<jacobw> nja: Does your IRC client replace 'jacobw' with '@jacobw'?
<jacobw> nja: Where do get the @ from
<nja> @jacobw No, it just highlights it with ther person's colour.
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: SELECT columns_you_want FROM second_table s JOIN first_table f ON (s.related_to = s.id) WHERE s.field = 'some_value' AND ...
<MartijnVdS> nja: strange client is strange ;)
<nja> @MartijnVdS Smuxi is only in beta. ;)
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: you have to prefix column names with "s." or "f." depending on which table you want to get them from
<nja> Can someone else do an @ tag for me?
<nja> So I can see hwat it looks like.
<MartijnVdS> @moo
<nja> With an actual person please...  Not me cause it does something else for that.
<MartijnVdS> But.. nobody does that!
<nja> D:
<nja> @TheOpenSourcerer What project are you working on?
<bigcalm> That's like asking everybody to stop using email and start using Google Wave
<nja> @bigcalm It was a good idea!
<nja> Just terribly executed
<oimon> further to my previous comments about my buggy, do people think i might get better customer service via twitter than email?
<oimon> email people said no.
<bigcalm> oimon: twitter is more public
<bigcalm> No company wants bad press
<oimon> i replied to email people again. will wait for response
<TheOpenSourcerer> MartijnVdS: Thanks. That appears to be doing something sensible. It was the JOIN ON (blah = blah) that I hadn't groked. Cheers
<oimon> the uk twitter people are in UK , hence nicer :D
<TheOpenSourcerer> nja
<TheOpenSourcerer> nja: vtiger CRM
<nja> TheOpenSourcerer: posh...
<nja> See happy, I didn't use the @ sign
<nja> woah woah woah woah, Vtiger is Open Source, with a free trial. ???
<nja> See you all later, 2nd last day of holiday and I'm going to go swimming now :D
 * directhex moos once more
<bigcalm> I'm guessing young?
<bigcalm> No adult has that much excitement within IRC
<bigcalm> popey: you came back!
<popey> i did
<christel> magic
 * popey is in gostrey park
<gord> i like that bigcalm disproved his theory instantly
<bigcalm> popey: how do I completely remove an app from an iOS device? If I try to reinstall an app, it reloads with cached data
<davmor2> popey: what not enough abuse the first time came back for some more ;)
<bigcalm> gord: I'm no adult :P
<popey> bigcalm, no idea
<bigcalm> Bah
<bigcalm> That's something Android does without hassle
<bigcalm> :P
<popey> well, why are you reinstalling an app?
<bigcalm> Because it's in development
<popey> i haven't had the problem of having cached data retained
<popey> maybe the developer is storing the data incorrectly :)
<bigcalm> Ho hum :|
 * popey notes the x220 screen works quite nicely in the shade
<diplo> bigcalm: Not an iOS man, but no option like Android to manage apps and clear data etc in app settings ?
<gord> tried to use mine in the sun yesterday, didn't go well
<gord> ended up being hot to the touch but didn't overheat though
<MartijnVdS> It's not a Sun, it's a Lenovo.
<MartijnVdS> hence the problem.
 * popey is under a tree
 * BigRedS wants a sun laptop
<bigcalm> Ding ding ding ding
<bigcalm> Lunch time!
 * bigcalm goes for a horrifyingly lazy Maccy D's
<diplo> I'm off for a cycle shortly for a Boatmans ( big breakfast meal ) not sure it's a good idea yet
<diplo> :D
 * popey has picnic
 * czajkowski steals popey picnic 
<christel> mmmpicnic
<christel> :)
<popey> i now have 3 picnics
<christel> how very greedy of you!
<popey> people keep arriving in the park, leaving their stuff near me and going off to play
 * davmor2 believe popey is really just yogi bear in disguise 
<popey> i am indeed smarter than the average popey
<czajkowski> could everyone please go me too on zee bug of todays irritation :)
<czajkowski> https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/1028862
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 1028862 in Unity "attempting to drag fixed items from the launcher results in other applications being moved" [Undecided,New]
<AlanBell> popey: you at the meadow still?
<popey> ya
<popey> be here for an hour or so
<popey> czajkowski, confirmed now
<popey> oh, mpt did it :(
<christel> czajkowski: hoi. are you guys staying in farnham on saturday? or going back?
<christel> if you're staying we shoud lunch or something on sunday as it would appear the passport office have no intention of delivering david's passport today :)
<oimon> wow, firefox is still awful
<oimon> hangs, freezes, slowness
<oimon> went to this page and froze the whole browser hard http://www.petri.co.il/host-drs-affinity-rules-vsphere-4-1.htm
<BigRedS> oimon: allegedly, this is frequently down to add-ons
<BigRedS> someone was saying that the leakiness of an add-on is roughly proportional to its popularity, which sounds incredibly sub-optimal
<oimon> yeah, the firefox web browser one :P
<oimon> i only have a couple
<BigRedS> I did find a huge leap in performance when I disabled mine
<BigRedS> yeah, I had three. Web-dev, firebug and nagios. Disabling all of them suddenly made FF act as if it were a modern browser
<oimon> the performance is one thing, hard crashes are another
<oimon> adblock?
<BigRedS> I didn't have it installed, but that's a biggie for leakiness
<oimon> i just have adblock plus and ubuntu firefox modifications
<oimon> it's just a pile of poo
<oimon> and those millinos of pounds they get
<BigRedS> disable adblock plus, I bet it gets better
<oimon> :-\
<oimon> adblock plus is the essential feature of the browser
<BigRedS> I don't need it
 * BigRedS shrugs
<oimon> wow
<oimon> i wish i could read articles without having to put a piece of paper in the way to stop the flashing ads
<BigRedS> I don't think there's any site I visit with any degree of regularity with ads like that
<BigRedS> Though, generally, my laziness means that if I need to reconfigure my browser to make a website work I'll just not use that website
<czajkowski> christel: going back saturday night
<christel> ah ok
<Pendulum> christel: I had a response about what I thought of the passport office not sending David's passport and then I realised I couldn't say it here ;-)
<christel> haha
<christel> <3 Pendulum
<Dave2> Pendulum: you did better than me
<christel> i need to call the airline i suspect and do the whole "lol i wont be flying yet, change my tickets please" thing
<davmor2> bigcalm: Moreati is coming in on Thursday
<oimon> i guess not many of you are facebook users, but if i am friends with someone who likes a certain company, then if that company sends sponsored status updates, *I* see those updates!
<oimon> i.e. inserting advertising into my feed, not just his
<oimon> this is the end for facebook
<popey> i just hide them
<bigcalm> davmor2: good show
<oimon> can't hide them on your phone though
<oimon> does anyone know what a rivet rollover tool is?
 * bigcalm realises that he's returned from lunch too early. Time for some gaming
<bigcalm> Oh I do love how Psyconauts just crashes out now and then
<bigcalm> And there's no in-game music
<bigcalm> And some projects don't work
<davmor2> bigcalm: you need to play limbo
<bigcalm> davmor2: I have, 3 times
<gord> games ported to linux rarely get any QA at all unfortunately
<gord> if it works on the devs system, ship it
 * bigcalm eyes davmor2
<gord> psychonauts is a good 7 years old by now too, which doesn't help
<christel> i have ants in my hair :(
<MartijnVdS> Are you antsy about it?
<bigcalm> christel: well if you will try to impersonate an ant eater :S
<christel> MartijnVdS: very :P
<christel> bigcalm: pfft :P
<christel> all i did was lie down in the grass for half an hour
<christel> and then they all came flocking :(
<MartijnVdS> Maybe they thought you were sweet? :P
<christel> oh but i am! :P
<davmor2> christel: but your a raging ball of fury you can't be sweet too :D
<christel> oh i forgot yes, i am always angry :(
 * christel stomps feet
<davmor2> christel: tut fancy forgetting that :)  anyway stomping your feet will shake the ants lose :D
<christel> good thinking! :D
<gord> i have no idea why it took me so long to figure out that it might be a good idea to setup a upnp media server on my phone
<popey_> stupid free wifi
<gord> damn y ou free wiiifiii
<BigRedS> Is there a way to invoke crontab such that I can pass it a file to install as the new crontab for a user?
<BigRedS> I want an sftp-only user to be able to set cronjobs up
<bigcalm> sudo -u bob crontab bobs_cronjobs.txt
<bigcalm> (untested, may or may not work)
<BigRedS> ah! it does!
<BigRedS> why didn't I think of that
<bigcalm> Yay :)
<bigcalm> Why can I never remember this? What's the command to empty stale emails from the mailq?
<nja> Hello again
<bigcalm> exim -bp | awk '/^ *[0-9]+[mhd]/{print "exim -Mrm " $3}' | bash
<bigcalm> That seems a little ott
<bigcalm> Surprised that there isn't one command to delete everything
<nja> rm * ?
<MartijnVdS> no.
<nja> Tiny and Big: Grandpa's Leftovers Soundtrack FTW!
 * gord eats some more japanese candy that tastes like potato
<MartijnVdS> candy.. that tastes like potato..
<nja> Delicious!
<BigRedS> bigcalm: it depends on the mailer, but most are inelegant
<bigcalm> BigRedS: true
<bigcalm> Maybe it's to safe guard against dropping the whole queue
<bigcalm> Ack
<bigcalm> The site I'm working on has just emailed me in plain text my new password that I changed via its forgotten password system
 * bigcalm shakes fist at insecurity
<diplo> Well that was lovely ride and lunch apart from the last mile
<diplo> All up hill in this heat!
<diplo> :(
<bigcalm> This is what gives PHP a bad name :(
<diplo> And OMG how many half naked ladies !
<bigcalm> diplo: showers during work hours are the best :D
<diplo> Forgot to bring a towel unfortunatly, will rectify tomoorw
<bigcalm> You have a shower at work?
<bigcalm> More work places should do that
<christel> i am soaking wet :(
<christel> my sister decided to start a waterfight!
<diplo> yeah it's much better than my shower at home as well
<diplo> should use it more often
<bigcalm> christel: yay \o/
<diplo> lol christel, I have 2 young boys for that
 * bigcalm strikes an item of his to-do list. Such a lovely feeling
<christel> i submerged her in the toddler's paddling pool after
<christel> and when she has dried up i intend to get the hosepipe out!
<diplo> Good girl
<diplo> :)
 * christel nods
<bigcalm> This silence is deafening
<popey> shhh
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/6/63/The_Silent.tif/lossy-page1-250px-The_Silent.tif.jpg ?
<davmor2> bigcalm: I know it always goes quiet when you are doing stuff
<bigcalm> My fault for being busy
<bigcalm> mrevell: 3 of us are confirmed for Thursday. Will you make that 4?
<davmor2> mrevell: go on make it 4 you know you want to
<bigcalm> davmor2: As we're at the range until 9pm, does anybody bother to go to a pub afterwards?
<davmor2> bigcalm: nope the nearest pub is a dive and nobody should ever drink there :)
<bigcalm> Hehe
<mattt> bigcalm: what kind of range?
<bigcalm> That's fair enough :)
<davmor2> mattt: shooting
<mattt> eww
 * mattt /parts #ubuntu-tx
<bigcalm> Heh
<bigcalm> Not really my thing
<bigcalm> But I've not done it before, so giving it a go
<bigcalm> I like archery
<davmor2> bigcalm: oh god you're gonna love it dude
<bigcalm> Much more civilised
<popey> \o/ the kids have caught a fish
<bigcalm> popey: in minecraft?
<popey> hah
<popey> in real life
<popey> Big Blue RoomCraft
<popey> someone should make that game
<popey> it would be very dull
<bigcalm> Sounds it
<bigcalm> Well done to your kids :)
<davmor2> popey: wait till they find out it's tea :D
<popey> hah
<popey> light tea!
<MartijnVdS> lighttpd?
<christel> popey: chrisjrob has instructed me to liase with you about Some Server
<christel> GOOD TIMING CHRISTEL
<MartijnVdS> ("Security, speed, compliance, and flexibility -- all of these describe lighttpd (pron. lighty)")
<BigRedS> pron?
<BigRedS> oh!
<Myrtti> bwak bwak
<bigcalm> Jello!
<christel> BWAK BWAK
<Myrtti> hello UK
<christel> HELLO PRETTYFINN
 * TheOpenSourcerer has a minty choc-ice :-)
<AlanBell> choochoo
<christel> alan the tank engine.
<AlanBell> ooh myrtti, have you arrived?
<nja> Hi AlamBell
<christel> alarmbell!
<nja> I hear you're quite important here
<christel> that is so your new nickname
<TheOpenSourcerer> skinheadbell
<AlanBell> nja, hehe, no I am just persistent
<nja> @AlamBell ;)
<nja> wait what
<nja> new nickname?
<nja> Yay for Spotify Adverts!
<christel> nja: i'm just being daft ;)
<Myrtti> AlanBell: I have!
<christel> but did she bring any lingonberry jam?!
<christel> er cloudberry jam even
<nja> @christel isn't that all we do here?
<christel> nja: good point
<christel> or any REINDEER?
<christel> HRM HRM
<nja> No Spotify.  Not Lil Wane, Rhianna OR Niki Minaj.  (I know I spelt that wrong)
<nja> And DEFFINATELY NOT RAP!
<nja> sorry, offtopic
<Myrtti> christel: both can br bought from Ikea, I save my luggage kilograms for my books
<christel> ooo do they have cloudberry jam?!
<christel> i know they have lingonberry
<Myrtti> I think so
<christel> but i'venot spotted cloudberry
<nja> wait wait wait, am I in the brony chat by acciden
<christel> 15:45 :: Quit: popey (~alan@ubuntu/member/popey) [Quit: back in a bit]
<christel> 15:45  (christel) popey: chrisjrob has instructed me to liase with you about Some Server
<Myrtti> atleast tjats where my sister buys some
<christel> nja: yes my little pony.
<nja> How popular is Bronyism in Ubuntu UK?
<christel> oh very
 * christel nods
 * nja brohoof
<nja> no?
<christel> <3
<christel> i like you, you're funny :)
<nja> Strange post to follow...
<christel> hahaha
<jacobw> nja: on topic is relative in #ubuntu-uk
<nja> @jacobw Clearly
<oimon> bronyism and arch linux are just figments of the imagination
<DJones> AlanBell: Hope you haven't got your phone as a wifi hotspot in the olympic venues, you'll get thrown out
<nja> @DJones Really?!
<nja> The Olympics is going way too far
<DJones> nja: Yep, personal wifi hotspots are banned items
<jacobw> Wow, I've just looked up 'Bronyism'
<DJones> I thought it was something to do with the Bronte sisters
<nja> My friends seem to have all become bronies...
<jacobw> DJones: it's so much worse
<nja> @jacobw +1
<oimon> it's not real
<nja> Why can't Spotify just play GOOD music?
<nja> I've almost maxed out on the
<oimon> i've got google music just playing good music
<nja> ... The Who, Dunderpatrullen
<nja> @oimon You have to buy the music for that
<jacobw> f(x) = good
<oimon> nja, yep
<nja> I don't want to pay money, that's kinda why I am using Spotify
<jacobw> Unfortunately, that function has never been discovered
<nja> Grooveshark is buggy and the legality is debatable
<jacobw> Perhaps you should kick the ass of a Phillippino torrent site
<nja> Sounds legal
<jacobw> I won't tell, I promise :P
<nja> That's it Spotify, I'm going to YouTube where I can play Teddybears again.
<jacobw> i have an idea for a t-shirt
<jacobw> "i'm not slacking off, my packets are capturing"
<simondbull> jacobw: hahaha
<jacobw> for network people :)
<nja> @jacobw I'm ashamed with my self that I didn't get that :(
<jacobw> run `sudo tcpdump -n -i wlan0 host freenode.net`
<jacobw> you'll see a description of each packet transmitted between your wlan0 and freenode
<nja> OK, if I remember when I next use ubuntu
<nja> This computer
<nja> runs
<nja> WINDOWS!
<nja> dum dum duuuuuuuuummmmmm.
<jacobw> unfortunately, some do
<simondbull> nja: Controversial!
<nja> :D
<nja> Windows 8 will spark an Ubuntu revolution
<nja> at least I hope
<jacobw> windows is a much OS now than it was even 5 years ago
<jacobw> much better OS even
<nja> Now, new topic time
<jacobw> the improvement of windows correlates with it's increasing adoption of open standards
<nja> Anyone here familiar with Slick-2D?
<jacobw> no, what is it?
<nja> Java libraries for 2D games
<nja> OK, fine
<nja> It's been 2 hours and still now response on my StackOverflow post D:
<jacobw> is there some reason why you have to use java?
<nja> @jacobw OS support mainly
<nja> I can do Python too
<nja> PyGTK3
<jacobw> :)
<jacobw> i think unity3d is quite popular
<jacobw> directhex knows more about game development
<directhex> snuh?
<jacobw> i'm sure i've read about unity3d on your blog
<directhex> you have.
<directhex> what's the topic?
<jacobw> nja, where's your stackoverflow post?
<nja> I'm not too fond of Unity
<nja> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/11650540/
<nja> @jacobw ^
<directhex> trying to think of how many 2d java games i've seen lately
<directhex> there was freecol, but that's about it
<nja> @directhex I suck at 3D currently
<directhex> well the only 3d java anyone knows or cares about is minecraft :p
<jacobw> minecrack
<nja> @directhex That's why everyone is learning Java all of a sudden
<directhex> lol
<directhex> yeah, because lwjgl isn't a blight upon the earth or anything]
<jacobw> most of my development work is text processing, i like python very much :)
<nja> @jacobw I'll tell you what we haven't had for a long time; Text based adventure games.
<directhex> zork zork zork
<nja> I knew someone would do that
<diplo> nja: Quite a few still running around the www
<diplo> Bryan Lunduke from LAS runs one i think
<directhex> MUDs!
<diplo> yah
<directhex> (and MUSHes and MOOs)
<nja> @diplo Do you think it is possible to make a AAA text based game?
<diplo> One of my mates used to, not sure if it's still up
<directhex> my wife used to play a discworld mud
<directhex> nja, impossible.
<nja> ASCII ART!
<directhex> nja, AAA refers to the marketing budget more than anything else, and nobody will spend an AAA budget on a text adventure's marketing
<nja> True
<nja> Although the London Olympics seem to be doing everything wrong
<diplo> http://www.topmudsites.com/forums/mudinfo-ajandurah.html
<diplo> Thats my mates mud
<diplo> Probably still got ssh/source access, couldn't get into it myself
<nja> [1] http://paste.ubuntu.com/1110355/
<popey> I'm melllltiiiing
<nja> poor you
<nja> Enjoy the sun while it lasts
<davmor2> popey: stop pooring water on yourself then
<popey> nja, the ifcomp runs every year
<popey> new text adventures 'interactive fiction'
<nja> and how do I pronounce your name?
<nja> poo-py
<davmor2> popey: if it helps I just opened the window as the sun has just come round to this side of the flat :)
<nja> or po-pey
<popey> poh-pee
<MartijnVdS> peau-pee
<nja> nah, prefer the first one.
<gord> poh-pee-po? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T0-2lzA7_Cg
<davmor2> nja: pop-eye he really likes that.
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: proof: http://vandestreek.net/~martijn/lolpopey.jpg
<nja> @gord Why did you send that!
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: wow
<popey> thats freaky
<davmor2> popey: that's you
<gord> because i have all the best links? they bring all the boys to the yard, and i'm like, its better than yours, i can teach you - but i have to charge
<popey> hah
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: he did steal your focus, didn't he? :)
 * nja facepalm
 * diplo wonders if I should change my mind for Saturday
<diplo> Scary!
<bigcalm> Heh
<nja> :D
<nja> http://www.steamgifts.com/giveaway/ZZ0SA/secret-of-the-magic-crystals
<christel> diplo: to come or not to come?!
<diplo> ooer missus!
<diplo> :P
<MartijnVdS> christel: based on the popey pic, I think
<christel> haha
<gord> don't worry, popey is harmless
<gord> yes his eyes steal your soul, but you don't need it
<davmor2> diplo: just hide behind christel and the angers will cancel each other out :D
<diplo> right, time to cycle home :( then shower and make my way to the pub \o/
<diplo> heh
 * christel nods
<diplo> Suppose I better harass AlanBell for an address tomorrow
<nja> @diplo and then program some more?
<diplo> Nope, then drink more beer, then a little more, maybe some food @ the pub
<diplo> The a book, then sleep!
<nja> @diplo fun evening
<diplo> then a book*
<diplo> Not sure the wallet can take it yet, but if I don't look it doesn't matter does it ?
<diplo> :P
<bigcalm> !oggcamp
<lubotu3> oggcamp is a two day unconference on August 13th/14th 2011 - See http://oggcamp.org/
<bigcalm> ...
<MartijnVdS> heh
<diplo> I bid you all good evening
<bigcalm> That could do with fixing
<bigcalm> Taaraa diplo
<davmor2> bigcalm: no you just need to build a time machine
<bigcalm> That's the easy option?
<christel> diplo: \o/
<christel> diplo: i am going to bake a CAKE
<christel> (and i am going to make my uber amazing caramelised onion potato salad!)
<christel> and maybe some other magical things
<christel> because i'm sweet like that!
<popey> lubotu3, no oggcamp is <reply> is a two day unconference on August 18th/19th 2012 - see http://oggcamp.org/
<popey> or something
<davmor2> christel: uber amazing caramelised onion potato salad CAKE! EEEWWWWWWWW
<christel> davmor2: hahaha
<christel> no, the cake will be all summery and full of BERRIES
<christel> :P
<christel> (and vanilla cream omnom!)
 * daubers wonders why he can't get onto the work server
<davmor2> daubers: well it's probably in a rack surrounded by other servers preventing access to the top of it in order to get on it :)
<bigcalm> "End of Vendor Support -Cisco CSS Load Balancer". Would be nice if my client had a clue and responded to hosting tickets from Rackspace
<daubers> davmor2: I suspect too much porn being downloaded in the office
<nja> @daubers or Pirateboxing
<bigcalm> Anybody else using Rackspace and their Cisco load balancer?
<davmor2> nja: wow pirates box, I thought they just got drunk and brawled
<nja> @davmor2 while downloading tons of MP3s and Keygens
<nja> bye all, noms time
<KungFuPanda> hi guys, how to change webuser to be www-data instead of apache ?
<KungFuPanda> I do not why my webuser become apache?
<KungFuPanda> anything upload by user from browser will own by apache
<dogmatic69> KungFuPanda: stop using a lamp package
<BigRedS> KungFuPanda: it's in the apache2 config file
<KungFuPanda> ha ?
<BigRedS> 'user' and 'group' directives
<dogmatic69> sudo apt-get install apache2 :)
<KungFuPanda> is that the reason ? :-D our server still using apache ? not apache2 ?
<KungFuPanda> damn I just log into our server, that is why I can not find apache2ctl
<BigRedS> no, the old apache package used www-data, too
<BigRedS> but just edit the config
<BigRedS> if you reinstall you're boudn to lose some other config you're already reliant upon. But, in general, it's a good idea to just use the apache out of the repos
<BigRedS> it's generally best to use everything out of the repos
<KungFuPanda> I try cat /etc/passwd, I can not find www-data user
<BigRedS> then you'll need to add one
<BigRedS> it'll only be created for you if you've installed the repo-supplied apache
<BigRedS> if you've something custom-built then there's no reason for that user to exist
<KungFuPanda> ok thanks, all right, the problem is current user upload a image from browser, which own by apache, and I want to preview it from browser, but no permisson to view it, any idea ?
<KungFuPanda> the whole upload folder full access 777, only the file 600
<BigRedS> so the file is uploaded by apache and lands owned by apache:apache, and then apache comes along and cannot serve it to you?
<BigRedS> I assume there's nothing in the Apache config to prevent it?
<KungFuPanda> yes, after image uploaded, I got a preview link in the same page, but I just can not view the image from browser
<BigRedS> if you su to 'apache' can you cd to the directory containing the image and then run file on it?
<KungFuPanda> I should be able to see it right ? even the file owned by apache:apache
<BigRedS> that'll check apache has enough filesystem permissions to get there
<BigRedS> is all this code running as the same site? Is it all in the same language?
<KungFuPanda> the same site, the same language
<BigRedS> it's not _that_ unusual for PHP to be run through mod_php as 'apache' and CGI to be suexeced to your user in some shared environments, for example
<BigRedS> ah, cool
<BigRedS> yeah, can apache su there?
<BigRedS> er, cd
<KungFuPanda> su apache,
<KungFuPanda> This account is currently not available.
<jacobw> what?
<jacobw> su actually says that?
<KungFuPanda> yes
<bigcalm> If it's a debian/ubuntu machine, it'll be www-data. Not apache
<BigRedS> bigcalm: he said earlier it's apache and there is no www-data user
<bigcalm> Ah, sorry :)
 * bigcalm goes back to work
<BigRedS> haha
<BigRedS> KungFuPanda: try specifying a shell
<BigRedS> su - apache -s /bin/bash
<jacobw> debianized apache is much more friendly than the redhat distribution
<bigcalm> Aye, the login might be set to /bin/false or nologin
<BigRedS> yeah, redhatites tend to complain that debianised apache is patronising
<BigRedS> I think they'd prefer it all in one massive file with no comments
<jacobw> my problem is that they have do have a massive file with configuration sprinkled between endless comments
<KungFuPanda> I do not know that the system is runing,
<KungFuPanda> cat /etc/passwd
<KungFuPanda> got this:
<KungFuPanda> apache:x:48:48:Apache:/var/www:/sbin/nologin
<BigRedS> jacobw: ah yeah. I've had that problem with dovecot recently
<BigRedS> I'm slowly replacing all our multi-KB dovecot.confs with my 11-line one...
<bigcalm> Use chsh to change the shell of the apache user
<jacobw> BigRedS: yeah, dovecot as well :)
<KungFuPanda> damn, I do not know the apache password
<BigRedS> KungFuPanda: there probably isn't one
<bigcalm> Indeed
<BigRedS> become root before suing to apache
<bigcalm> Use sudo chsh
<BigRedS> then you wont need one
<nja> Hello again all.  I'm back to annoy you all.
<BigRedS> oh, or that
<bigcalm> Or sudo su - apache
<jacobw> sudo -u apache
 * BigRedS defers to the proper way of doing it
<bigcalm> I think you might have to change the shell of the apache user before you can su to it
<BigRedS> yeah, or supply a shell
<BigRedS> sudo su apache -s /bin/bash
<KungFuPanda> ok, sudo su apache -s /bin/bash , this one works
<KungFuPanda> I can go into that folder and see the file
<KungFuPanda> as apache user
<BigRedS> cool
<BigRedS> so there's no filesystem reason why Apache can't read that
<BigRedS> and so there must be something in teh apache config stopping it
<BigRedS> and that's harder to debug :)
<BigRedS> what is the path to the file, out of interest?
<KungFuPanda> I found it, damn, I am stupid, the url wrong
<BigRedS> frequently, /var/www and /home/*/public_html are the only permitted places
<BigRedS> ah!
<bigcalm> :D
<KungFuPanda> thanks all
<BigRedS> haha!
<KungFuPanda> thank you guys , have a nice evening
<bigcalm> Enjoy
<bigcalm> Weee, 6pm
<bigcalm> Almost
<christel> \o/
<christel> SIX PEE EMME
<bigcalm> Maybe now?
<christel> oh yes
<bigcalm> \o/
<davmor2> Ahhhhhhhhhhh I'm telling christel said PEE
<bigcalm> And it's time for the chippy before going to play with guns
<bigcalm> Toodles for now :)
<jacobw> wb nja
<nja> :D
<nja> Thinking of making a new Spotift playlist
<christel> hahaha
<nja> "Songs that shouldn't exist"
<jacobw> i spent some of sunday making a ringtone from seconds 10 to 40 of regret by new order
<nja> Parry Gripp time :D
<nja> wow I'm sad
<nja> Wow and now I am listening to an Orchestra version of the MLP:FiM theme and Levels (Avicii)
<nja> great...
<nja> For those who care:
<nja> http://open.spotify.com/artist/6Okl9534IVWQRRsJamiuJ7
<nja> Is what I am listening
<nja> to
<jacobw> i like 'burn notice', it's like a spy drama and a con drama in the show
<awilkins> Also like the way they explain things. And Gabrielle Anwar isn't hideous.
<jacobw> i've just learnt that thermite has a surface temperature of 1000C
<awilkins> Melty.
<jacobw> which seems arbitrarily precise to me, but nevermind :)
<nja> @jacobw I liked Burn Notice, but the series' never really went anywhere.  Has it changed much?
<jacobw> i'm at s1e9 right now
<nja> @jacobw watching on DVD?
<awilkins> S2 has a bit more arc. And that blonde cyborg from BSG (Tricia Helfer)
<nja> @jacobw or pirating?
<awilkins> And the nice old policeman from Frasier (old policeman guy)
<jacobw> watchseries.eu is helpful
<nja> @jacobw ha
 * jacobw puts fraiser on the 'to watch' list
<nja> @nja how legal is that site anyway?
<nja> wait
<nja> I @ed myself
<nja> must be getting too late
<nja> @jacobw ping for above^
<awilkins> /me looks
<jacobw> i'm not a lawyer
<nja> @jacobw Also this chat is publically archived
<jacobw> i know that is
<nja> OK, well I'm not buying the DVD for Chuck series 5
<nja> @jacobe Also add Chuck to watchlist
<nja> @jacobw Also add Chuck to watchlist
<jacobw> will do :)
<nja> Hillarious geek drama :P
 * JamesTait is done for today.
<JamesTait> 'night all!
 * JamesTait waves
<jacobw> yeah, i've watched all episodes of the big bang theory
<jacobw> o/ JamesTait
<nja> @jacobw who hasn't
<nja> The Big Band Theory is epic!
<nja> Chuck Season 5 will probably come onto my Cable TV on demand thing in September so I can probably wait.
<jacobw> the problem is that i watch it and think the things that sheldon are good
<jacobw> the things that sheldon does even
<jacobw> is season 5 still running?
<nja> of Chuck?
<nja> It's aired in America
<nja> Comming to UK on DVD in September
<nja> OK, good night all
<nja> It's late where I am (holiday)
<jacobw> good night
 * nja yawns and waves
<jacobw> i think i'm getting RSI, my forearms twinge
<cbx33> hey peeps
<cbx33> anyone here good on licensing?
<cbx33> been working on an android app
<cbx33> using cordova and jquerymobile
<cbx33> cordova is released using the Apache license, and jquerymobile is release dual license GPL + MIT
<cbx33> I'm wondering what restrictions are imposed on me and what obligations I have
<cbx33> I have read through the T=C
<cbx33> but just wanted to confirm my thoughts with someone that knows a little more about licensing than I
<AlanBell> cbx33 have you modified either of them?
<cbx33> nope
<cbx33> I've only added my own index.html into the assets
<cbx33> and compiled the apk package
<AlanBell> fine, so basically be clear about what precisely is in it
<AlanBell> read the licenses too
<cbx33> AlanBell, I have done
<AlanBell> and keep your own copies of the sources
<cbx33> just wanted to confirm with someone else that has read them
<cbx33> meaning? I don't need to release the sources?
<AlanBell> keep an archive version of the precise release you are using
<AlanBell> unminified
<cbx33> oh....of jquery you mean?
<AlanBell> yeah, and probably the other
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> so the Actual source
<cbx33> not just he libs that they created
<cbx33> s/he/the
<AlanBell> yeah
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> I did read that
<cbx33> what isd that for exactly?
<cbx33> sorry for my ignorance
<cbx33> my fist time releasing somethin like this
<AlanBell> if someone asks for it you don't want to depend on the jquery website being up
<cbx33> ahhh
<cbx33> ok
<AlanBell> or keeping that version etc
<cbx33> so who "would" ask me for it
<AlanBell> nobody
<cbx33> hehh
<cbx33> and i can sell it? (not that I'm wanting to)
<AlanBell> sure
<cbx33> cool
<cbx33> and i don't have to provide access to any source?
<cbx33> under Apache license and MIT?
<AlanBell> you can do that regardless of the license you are using for your code
<AlanBell> not for your stuff with those licences
<cbx33> for their stuff?
<cbx33> do i have to link to their sources?
<cbx33> and i know YANAL
<AlanBell> it would be nice to credit them
<cbx33> of course i will
<cbx33> and include their licenses
<cbx33> but j=was just wondering about links to source
<cbx33> GPL you have to right?
<AlanBell> depending on how tight the integration is, probably
<cbx33> yeh
<cbx33> in case you are wondering it's an app to help people learn Regex
<cbx33> and has a javascript based tester
<cbx33> and a regex dictionary
<AlanBell> nice
<ali1234> is learning regex really a useful thing in this day and age?
<cbx33> I would say most definitely
<cbx33> i use it at least several times a month
<cbx33> been doing a lot of work on splunk recently and it is essential if you want to pull out custom fields and cool information
<ali1234> i have no idea what that is
<ali1234> i find regexp is always either overkill or inadequate for the task
<cbx33> well I'll be honest, I love it
<cbx33> if you have a huge log file with ip addresses scattered around
<ali1234> i only really know a small amount of regexp syntax but it's enough, except when i'm trying to figure out a regexp written by someone else
<cbx33> regex for me is the easiest way to find them :)
<ali1234> yeah... that's the thing though
<ali1234> "find all the IPs in this arbitrarily formatted text blob" isn't really something i need to do often
<cbx33> nope
<cbx33> as a sysadmin, it's a task we do a fair amount
<ali1234> nearly always there is some kind of format to the input
<cbx33> (as an example) and things like this.....take the output of the ping command and create an average of the latency
<ali1234> and exploiting that is usually easier than trying to make a perfect regexp
<ali1234> especially if it's html/xml
<ali1234> yeah... you know ping outputs averages right?
<cbx33> I said it was an exmaple
<cbx33> but you could have a running average :)
<cbx33> every second
<ali1234> mtr
<cbx33> I know, I know bad example
<cbx33> I KNEW YOU WERE GOING TO SAY THAT !!!
<cbx33> :p
<ali1234> this is it - there's things regexp is good at... bt nobody does them in the real world :)
<cbx33> we do for quick jobs :)
<cbx33> "get me some stats on that compute grid within the next 3 hours" - I don't mess about with documentation generally
<cbx33> I just get the stats
<cbx33> :)
<ali1234> for quick jobs i use python
 * cbx33 too
<cbx33> regex in python
<cbx33> bbl
<cbx33> thanks AlanBell
<BigRedS> I do things requiring regexes all the time
<BigRedS> well, I say 'requiring', sometimes it's easier to use a regex someone else has already written...
<jacobw> logcheck requires regular expressions :)
<jacobw> like, hundreds of them
<Azelphur> what's the deal with channel registration on freenode?
<Azelphur> Is there any way to transfer an OS easily onto a different sized drive?
<MartijnVdS> just dd and resize partitions afterwards
<MartijnVdS> ext* and btrfs can resize online
<Azelphur> cool :)
<MartijnVdS> well
<MartijnVdS> grow, not shrink
<Azelphur> you can't dd a mounted partition right?
<directhex> you can't but don't expect much joy the next time you mount it
<Azelphur> hehe
<ali1234> remount it readonly
<soreau> I usually just use cp -a
<Azelphur> soreau: hehe, was wondering if cp -a would work, does that get grub too?
<soreau> Azelphur: No, just for copying linux from one partition to another
<Azelphur> ah :)
<soreau> I usually always plan to reinstall grub at leat
<soreau> least*
<soreau> maybe for transferring to another drive, dd is better
<soreau> but I haven't done that
<Azelphur> hehe
<Azelphur> wat https://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/screenshots/2012/July/2012-07-25-214240_1501x526_scrot.png
<Azelphur> how does that even work
<Azelphur>  /dev/sdb1 is not 6.4GB at all, yet the OS seems to think so.
 * Azelphur nudges soreau with that one :p
<Azelphur> where are all the smart people hiding, I need saving from whatever on earth that problem is :P
 * Seeker` thinks Azelphur should go back to 'how to plug in an Arduino without blowing it up'
<Azelphur> noes.
<Azelphur> LOL, two different drives in the same machine with the same mount point
 * Seeker` claps for Azelphur 
<Azelphur> xD
<popey> :)
<christel> czajkowski: The Boy says that he looks forward to seeing Naura and the Chickens(!)
<GaryLittlemore> Hi all, anyone able to tell me how I can change my device name in 12.04?
<Azelphur> GaryLittlemore: you mean the hostname?
<GaryLittlemore> in System Settings> Details> it says Device Name but mine is greyed out.
<Azelphur> yea that's hostname
<Azelphur> I think you can do sudo hostname <new name>
<Azelphur> and that'll change it
 * directhex moos
 * Azelphur counter moos
 * brobostigon meeps
<Azelphur> I'm thinking about getting some water slide decal paper and decorating my PC, might be fun
<GaryLittlemore> Doing sudo hostname <new name> has changed something, but not what I wanted to change
<Azelphur> :(
<bigcalm> Ahoy
<popey> ahoy indeed
<czajkowski> mATIE!
<bigcalm> Hazar
<bigcalm> There is life in here
<bigcalm> Maybe it's time for sleepies
 * bigcalm slithers away
<AlanBell> hi all
#ubuntu-uk 2012-07-26
<christel> GOOD MORNING PRETTIES
<MartijnVdS> \o
<diplo> Morning all
<christel> morning diplo, MartijnVdS \o/
<diplo> Too many beers were had last night :(
 * diplo is getting old it seems
<AlanBell> morning all
<AlanBell> can't tell you much about the Olympics opening ceremony, but it will be well worth watching and it won't be like anything you have seen before
<diplo> AlanBell: Still probably won't watch it.
<christel> diplo: hehe
<christel> surely there is no such thing as Too Many Beers?
<diplo> Well, no tea and then drinking meant I felt a little worse for wear by the time we got to the last pub
<diplo> I honestly think the heat had a part to play in it last night
<diplo> Couldn't believe how hot it stayed till quite late
<christel> hehe
<jacobw> morning
<christel> yeah it was lovely, i sat outside till about 11:30 just enjoying everything being Quiet :)
<diplo> I think I was well in bed by then ( very very unusual for me )
<christel> hehe
<diplo> What are people doing today then ?
<bigcalm_laptop> Good morning peeps!
<wenchkin> morning :)
<davmor2> Morning All
<bigcalm_laptop> Ug
<davmor2> bigcalm_laptop: prod, wake up
<davmor2> czajkowski: prod Morning
<christel> good morning bigcalm_laptop :)
<czajkowski> morning
<christel> GOOD MORNING NAURA
<christel> <3
<mattt> morning morning morning
 * mattt falls asleep on keyboard
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<BigRedS> Good morning!
<christel> morning <3
<brobostigon> morning christel and BigRedS
<czajkowski> christel: hehehe
<oimon> beautiful day
<mattt> anyone make it to the openstack meetup last night?
<christel> oh yes, how was that naura czajkowski ?
<mattt> the view from that building was amazing :P
<czajkowski> very good
<christel> :)
<czajkowski> over 1000 people in attendance
<czajkowski> *100
<czajkowski> even
<christel> briilliant :)
<AlanBell> O.o
<mattt> https://twitter.com/mattt416/status/228229175566299137/photo/1/large
 * mattt wants an office there
<czajkowski> mattt: were you at it ?
<AlanBell> still 100 is rather a lot
<christel> AlanBell: sssh, she doesn't know how to count ;)
<mattt> czajkowski: yepper
<czajkowski> well you suck for not coming and saying hi so
<czajkowski> AlanBell: OVER 100 :)
<mattt> czajkowski: was with my wife, she'd have called me a dork for going up to strangers from IRC
<mattt> :P
<czajkowski> poor logic
<czajkowski> so we;re going to have one each month
<czajkowski> except August due to some poxy games lark
<czajkowski> will ned to keep better management of time however
<czajkowski> we only got around to one lightening talk
<mattt> ah, were there more scheduled?
<mattt> it'd be nice if you could have a few sessions, break, then go back in
<mattt> got a bit hot in there after a while
<JamesTait> Morning all! :)
<mattt> czajkowski: what was the guy's name in the orange ubuntu shirt who organized?
<czajkowski> Mark baker
<czajkowski> it was very warm in there
<mattt> great, will ping him to see if i can help sponsor the next one
<czajkowski> mattt: do you want his address
<mattt> czajkowski: please, would save me googling for it :)
<czajkowski> np
<czajkowski> mattt: sent to pm
<diplo> So, an actualy linux question from me, we use F1->F5 for our character based system, anyone know how to bind keys in terminator or if need be gnome-terminal in 12.04 ?
<gord> hum, yes. yes. i quite like 80mbit internet. it pleases me.
<popey> quite chuffed, i made a script to do automated unity testing in a vm last night
<popey> it's probably awful
<popey> given I'm not really a coder :)
<gord> running ap?
<popey> ya
<directhex> badger badger
<gord> neato
<popey> clones a vm, ssh's into it and runs it all then scps the logs out and shuts it down
<popey> you can specify a ppa and packages names on the command line
<oimon> my machine hangs badly when performing i/o (e.g. apt-get upgrade ) - any suggestions as to what i can do ? (without buying new hardware)
<gord> its been a while since i ran ap, does it still take about an hour to complete? ;)
<popey> so you can run two in parallel, one as a base and one with extra packages
<popey> ~30-40 mins here
<ali1234> i'm running unity in virtualbox at the moment, it's really slow
<popey> this is why i wanted to automate it
<gord> unity in virtualbox flies for me, its great
<popey> same here
<gord> make sure to install the guest additions from virtual box themselves not the repos
<ali1234> when i click outside virtualbox and then click back inside the virtualbox, the VM hangs for about 30 seconds
<popey> oh i have the repo one
<AlanBell> repo additions work for me
<popey> virtualbox-guest-x11
<AlanBell> but always install from the guest's repos
<popey> I should put this script in bzr for you to all laugh at :)
<gord> i had bad experiences with the repo ones or a while, they could of upgraded them
<AlanBell> don't install from the host repos and inject them into the guest if the host is an older release
<popey> lp is jolly slow today
<czajkowski> I'll gladly kick it
<czajkowski> although that many anger the demi gods the lpadders
<bigcalm_laptop> Finished the morning's admin, I can do proper work at last!
 * bigcalm_laptop flakes out in here
<gord> mwahaha nothings slow anymoooore
<gord> not even launchpad
<bigcalm_laptop> gord: now you have fast interwebs, you can come and join us :P
<christel> bigcalm_laptop: come do my invoicing
<oimon> guys, i cant handle firefox any longer - can anyone advise what's the privacy issue with chrome when compared with chromium?
<livingdaylight> hola ubunteros
<bigcalm_laptop> christel: do you think I'm crazy?
<christel> :(
<christel> what's crazy about doing my invoices? :(
<bigcalm_laptop> The answer is yes
<christel> hehe
<livingdaylight> I gotz a question: is there a way to attach a panel on which other apps can attach and rest? Since the Global Menu has supplanted the regular panel in gnome 2 some apps I fear do not show icon anymore. Particularly, one screencapture app I need/love Clip2Net isn't running in Ubuntu Unity.
<gord> bigcalm_laptop: oor, i could beam a hologram of me?
<gord> you guys have a shrine of me when i'm not there right?
<gord> just put me on webcam in the middle o that
<gord> of*
<bigcalm_laptop> Haha
<livingdaylight> its that or I have to revert back to some form of classic ubuntu... Mate, cinnammon and what not
<oimon> livingdaylight, you can whitelist apps
<livingdaylight> someting perhaps to do with g/conf but I dont' know noting about it
<livingdaylight> whitelist?
<livingdaylight> http://www.howtogeek.com/68119/how-to-bring-app-icons-back-into-unitys-system-tray/ maybe this will help
<ali1234> interesting
<ali1234> i just have ['JavaEmbeddedFrame', 'Wine', 'Update-notifier']
<ali1234> in that key
<ali1234> explains why my skype never shows an icon
<ali1234> however i have to wonder how that happened
<oimon> they are the defaults ali1234
 * AlanBell looks foward to the BBQ on Saturday \o/
<ali1234> oimon: skype is supposed to be whiteisted by default
<gord> AlanBell: you are having that somewhere down south right?
<AlanBell> gord: yes, surrey
<ali1234> well, adding skype didn't make it appear in the tray
<ali1234> i guess it's just broken
<AlanBell> weather forecast is looking paddling poolish
<gord> ah, bit far for me, take video of popey ironing something on like a swing or something
<oimon> is skype the name of the app?
<oimon> i don't think it's the process name, but some other name
<ali1234> how should i know?
<oimon> may be case senstivie too
<AlanBell> yes, the trampoline will be out too ;)
<AlanBell> czajkowski: no stillettos on the trampoline
<ali1234> also sound is breaking up again
<ali1234> pulseaudio: still broken after several years
<oimon> ali1234, do you have unsettings installed?
<ali1234> no idea
 * popey moves somewhere nicer
<oimon> it's a cute app for tweaking unity, also features whitelist
<ali1234> i set it to "all" and it still doesn't work
<oimon> grep TrayChild "${HOME}/.xsession-errors"
<ali1234> oh hang on
<oimon> try that ^^
<oimon> Skype needs capital S
<diplo> gord: Where are you based ?
<gord> diplo: crewe
<diplo> Hmm, probably a bit far then, was going to say if you didn't want to drive all the way down I could do halfway thing
<diplo> But that's a fair old way
<diplo> About 75/80 miles for me
<ali1234> yeah there we go. indicator applet complete doesn't actually handle the tray
<ali1234> now to figure out why sound is messed up yet again
<oimon> now can anyone help me hide the pop-under that appears for updates? i want them to appear old style in the systray without the pop under
<daubers> Looks like I've found a talk for Oggcamp, and it wasn't even anywhere near what I was originally intending to talk about
<czajkowski> AlanBell: no fear I'm flip flop happy
<AlanBell> czajkowski: in that case you can certainly bounce on the trampoline
<czajkowski> and bounce bounce SNAP goes my spine
<czajkowski> I'll avoid it :)
<czajkowski> hows that
<czajkowski> and send Jon and the chicken on it
<AlanBell> that works too
<AlanBell> don't want to send you home in pieces
<christel> rawr
<christel> yes, let's not break czajkowski
<christel> that'd be sad :(
<livingdaylight> well, this dconf appears broken or its not resolving my issue on any count
<czajkowski> daubers: oh do tell
<bigcalm_laptop> I wonder if this cafe is serving  me decafe coffee
 * bigcalm_laptop falls asleep
<bigcalm_laptop> (or would like to)
 * christel eyes the brief from her client
<bigcalm_laptop> christel: Clients are sending you underwear now?
<christel> i wish!
<christel> it was a job brief ;)
<christel> i have to be concise, sleek and punchy as the visual style of the campaign is very minemalistic, bold and focused on the image of the product.. apparently
<christel> PUNCHY!
<AlanBell> fully buzzword compliant
<christel> indeed!
<ali1234> also it needs to be 20% cooler
<diplo> So what do you do for a job christel ?
<christel> $client is presenting "Print 3.0" as a new philosophy for printing redefined! (being a play on the concepts of web 1.0 and 2.0)
<oimon> umm
<christel> diplo: i write words ;)
<christel> in a concise, sleek and punchy manner apparently
<christel> diplo: i translate/copy-write/transcreate etc :)
<diplo> Nice
<daubers> czajkowski: I'd intended to do something on hackspaces (because that's kinda becoming a passion I think) but looks like work will take precedence and I'll need to do something on finding out what people want from dev jobs and how to find devs (as 5 agencies have so far failed)
<diplo> Lot's of work out there ?
<czajkowski> daubers: one can always do 2
<christel> way too much -- i outsource probably about 80% of the stuff that passes through
<czajkowski> perhaps one can be a lightening talk
<livingdaylight> used to love gnome ubuntu, but finding the experience frustrating at every turn since unity, albeit s improvements, and don't know where to turn to. kde? hrmmm :s
<davmor2> livingdaylight: what are you trying to do in dconf
<popey> livingdaylight, frustrating how?
<livingdaylight> davmor2, enable it so clip2net would show on systray. It worked, but regardlessly, the app still no longer works in Unity.
<livingdaylight> popey, system feels fragile at every turn
<popey> can you be more specific?
<livingdaylight> having many apps open and navigating from one workspace to another seems to weaken the apps over time
<popey> I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "weaken the apps"
<popey> my laptop is running 12.04 for example and I have about 8 apps open which have been open for a couple of days.
<Niyakun> UNITY is a waste of time
<popey> I've suspended, resumed multiple times
<popey> Niyakun, useful feedback, thanks
<Niyakun> UNITY is the worst thing ever created
<popey> Niyakun, troll elsewhere please
<directhex> ever noticed how trolls capitalize? i see the same from people moaning about "MONO"
<livingdaylight> the way the windows function, navigating back and forth... At first the file menu will show, but over time they will no longer. Skype meanders across other workspaces... and will not activate after clicking icon - works intermittently
<Niyakun> popey: It is not trolling, Unity makes it harder to work
<popey> Niyakun, works for me
<popey> livingdaylight, is this an issue only with skype, or other apps too?
<Niyakun> popey: in GNOME 2 you  could click and get a menu, point to a submenu and lauch an app easily, in UNITY, you got to type the name, isn't it more work?
<popey> nope
<popey> I can launch apps faster in unity than in GNOME 2
<popey> tap super, type au, press enter, and I have audacity open
<popey> no waiting for menus
<livingdaylight> firefox too... I finally cut clip2net to sit in systray after playing with dconf but when I launched it, entire screen went berserk and had to reboot
<BigRedS> Waiting for alt-F2 to start working irritates the crap out of me in Unity, tbh
<Niyakun> I find it harder to type with the keyboard than point with the mouse
<popey> livingdaylight, never heard of clip2net, sorry
<gord> i could go through my bookmarks to find a website i want, or i could just type it in the address bar and have firefoxes awesomebar find it
<BigRedS> Niyakun: Ah, then you'd likely be better off with a more menu-driven DE, perhaps
<BigRedS> Unity, as with all software, doesn't work well for everyone, that's why there's so many
<brobostigon> Niyakun: well, it is nominally quicker, if you can keep your hands on the keyboard, and you dont need to shuffle hands back and forth.
<popey> also, arriving in an ubuntu channel, and the first words out of your mouth being "UNITY is a waste of time"
<livingdaylight> popey, alt+f2 existed before and we had gnome-do, so there were quick ways of launching apps in gnome 2 also. But its more the feeling of stability and navigating between workspaces now in unity which feels worser for Unity
<popey> that _is_ troll behaviour, whether you think it is or not
<directhex> i agree that unity has a bunch of steps backwards, workflow wise, at least for me and the users i support. but it's less terrible than gnome shell
<BigRedS> livingdaylight: alt-f2 wasn't as searching as the windwos key thing is now
<BigRedS> it *is* now in unity, which is broken IMO
<Niyakun> what if I am in a place that is dark, I can't read the keys. In case of a mouse, it is not a problem, you can point anywhere
<popey> turn a light on
<Niyakun> popey: it is not worth it
<BigRedS> Niyakun: then install something else
<BigRedS> XFCE's a lot like Gnome 2
<BigRedS> so's MATE and Cinnamon
<BigRedS> Nobody's forcing you to use Unity any more than they used to force you to use Gnome 2
<BigRedS> it's just a default, and one which you're free to change
<popey> as the BBC say "Other desktops are available"
<Niyakun> yes I know, however IMO it is a stupid idea to keep a broken DE like UNITY as the default one
<BigRedS> All DEs are broken
<davmor2> Niyakun: that's okay hit window key + a and setup up the applications lens with filtering and then you are presented with  the old gnome 2 categories
<livingdaylight> BigRedS, you're most probably right. I'm just describing my own personal user-experience and reticence vis a vis unity and feel I must search elsewhere for a stable os. just not sure where though :s
<BigRedS> Every one of them has objective flaws
<BigRedS> and even more subjective ones. You pick the one whose flaws irritate you the least and go with that
<popey> or.. you could go into an ubuntu channel and tell the people who work on it that it's useless?
<BigRedS> the default is the one judged to irritate people the least. IME, lots of people don't have a problem with Unity
<popey> yes, that's a much better idea
<popey> that one wins
<BigRedS> maybe they just all have lightbulbs?
<BigRedS> livingdaylight: Gnome3 works for me pretty well
<BigRedS> alt-f2 behaves teh same as gnome2 which is the biggie :)
<Niyakun> BigRedS: UNITY most likely irritates 90% of people
<BigRedS> Niyakun: not in my experience
<popey> Niyakun, [citation needed]
<BigRedS> (and nor does Unity)
<Niyakun> The left panel takes a lot of space
<christel> imagine how great it could be if those 90% contributed to improving it then
<livingdaylight> directhex, I'm not super impressed with gnome shell either. I gave Deepin a whirl and wasn't overimpressed, which is why I came back to Ubuntu. I don't mind Unity too much. I set it to Autohide and consider it as a docky on the side, but the word you used "workflow" is good... and i agree it is setps backwards... stability is also an issue for me.
<Niyakun> unity for sure is a step backwards
<BigRedS> livingdaylight: anything that's not gnome2 (or whatever you're used to) is going to feel unimpressive to begin with
<BigRedS> Niyakun: what are you expecting to gain from repeating that mantra?
<davmor2> BigRedS: alt_f2 in unity is run command and also shows run command history too
<livingdaylight> BigRedS, good for you... :) but if someone is experiencing issues and all you can say in reply is "well, its working for me" well, it doesn't help or change my mind :)
<BigRedS> Niyakun: you're not going to convert anyone - we've generally made our minds up by using it
<BigRedS> davmor2: yeah, but if I hit alt-F2 within about 30seconds of logging in, enter something and hit enter nothing happens
<Niyakun> BigRedS: if you are a dev, possibly remove it as the default, else wait till Ubuntu becomes the least popular distro
<BigRedS> I need to wait for it to do whatever it needs to do to be able to show search resultsm, and *then* it starts working
<davmor2> BigRedS: works here
<BigRedS> livingdaylight: I'm not trying to change your mind
<BigRedS> I was just suggesting an alternative
<BigRedS> I've long since stopped caring what software other people use, so long as I get to use software that doesn't annoy me too much
<diplo> davmor2: I have same issue as BigRedS as well, and i mentioed the other day about dash taking quite a while to open
<BigRedS> Niyakun: How is repeatedly saying "Unity is a step backwards" going to solve that?
<diplo> So I just use gnome do for quick launching :)
<livingdaylight> BigRedS, i've given unity a good whirl but if apps I like don't function when they used to over the years, which is why i've even got used to them, then that is retrograde. and the apps that I do have struggle functioning seemlessly thaat also makes me uncomforatble. One wants to feel like  one is sitting inside a solid relaiable vehicle, so to speak
<BigRedS> livingdaylight: yeah. I agree. I'm not sure why you're saying all this :)
<livingdaylight> err, not sure anymore either lol...
<davmor2> livingdaylight: try xubuntu, it's more like the old gnome2 that you are used to, I'd try it in a vm initially
<livingdaylight> i was just airing my feelings, and popey wanted specifics and you're telling me how marvelous it actually is :) so it carried on... The point is I don't quite know where to turn now
<bigcalm_laptop> Yay for xubuntu-desktop \o/
<popey> livingdaylight, i was trying to figure out if there were bugs we should work on
<BigRedS> livingdaylight: ah, no, I'm not really a lover of Unity. I just know people who are.
<popey> we can't work on wooly "no longer works" type statements, thats all
<BigRedS> I just remember when I started using Gnome3 and it felt awful and very not-gnome2, but now it seems brilliant
<BigRedS> A few hours isn't, IMO, really enough time to get a good feel of a DE
<davmor2> livingdaylight: feel free to write bugs on apps that don't function with steps to reproduce and then the community and devs can work on it
<popey> livingdaylight, my team are responsible for releasing new versions / updates to unity, so it's good for us to know the specifics of what is broken so we can feed back to the developers, and target the right bits to fix
<Niyakun> livingdaylight: The UNITY icons are too large on a desktop. You got to move the cursor more. It is not a phone, so I don't see any reason for having so large icons
<livingdaylight> I actually quite liked unity as a launcher and the Global menu also as it removed one unnecessary panel, leaving more room for screen realestate, its actually a shame having to admit that from a practical and functional point of view, being honest, it is letting me down. I have no emotional or political bias or investment... I mean I was never a hater, so, I don't fall innto that category. but hopefully feedbac
<livingdaylight> k is taken onboard and not just swept aside with "it works great for me, here"
<popey> Niyakun, my icons are 32x32 which isnt large
<popey> livingdaylight, feedback _is_ taken on board if it's given in a useful way
<BigRedS> it's bigger than I'd make them. But it's adjustable isn't it, anyway?
<popey> yes
<livingdaylight> Niyakun, they can be made smaller, the icons... As i had it on Autohide, it left even more room for screen real-estate and I actually left icons default size after trying it smaller. default felt balanced size for screen
<popey> i tried 64x64 for fun the other day :)
<BigRedS> and I thought *I* had odd hobbies :)
<oimon> which company started the massive icon idea? i'm not thinking of fisher price either
<Niyakun> livingdaylight: I then need to install it on a spare PC. Last time, on my netbook, it wasn't responsive and CPU usage was high, so I removed it
<livingdaylight> davmor2, yea, xubuntu... I like the bells and whistles of gnome on a powerful desktop at least..
<popey> livingdaylight, so, do you have specific bugs to report?
<KungFuPanda> hi guys, how to test Imagemagick is installed successful ? under centOS ?
<oimon> i've found my desktop sweet spot, i hope it continues
<popey> KungFuPanda, you may be in the wrong place
<popey> but rpm -q imagemagick  might help?
<BigRedS> centOS is definitely a wrong place to be
<oimon> KungFuPanda, or run a command like convert
<popey> hah
<livingdaylight> Niyakun, i don't knwo whether it is a resource hog or not, maybe, but icon-size wise with Auto-hide mode i don't find it an encumbrance... What I don't like or what I prefer, in gnome2 is how the workspaces are laid out and how one can navigagte between them and add more than 4. The quadrant in unity and switching between them is a nightmare, imo
<livingdaylight> popey, I did
<popey> livingdaylight, the bugs you've just described?
<popey> got bug numbers?
<livingdaylight> popey, I'd love to know whether clip2net works for you in unity
<popey> i have no idea what clip2net even is
<popey> its not in the repo
<livingdaylight> i don't know how to give them bug numbers - i've described many things which dont work or function stably
<BigRedS> livingdaylight: yeah, workspaces was one of the first things I fixed
<BigRedS> you can change tehm in ccsm
<livingdaylight> its a screencapture tool - google it
<KungFuPanda> thanks, rpm -q, package imagemagick is not installed, damn install imagemagick under centOs is hard,
<livingdaylight> BigRedS, for real? tell me, please
<BigRedS> yeah
<popey> livingdaylight, yes, you have described them here, in irc. but the best way to tell developers something is broken is to file a bug
<BigRedS> apt-get install compizconfig-settings-manager (perhaps with different hyphenation)
<BigRedS> then run ccsm
<livingdaylight> popey, ok, fair enough...
<BigRedS> and mess around in the 'Unity' section
<popey> livingdaylight, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReportingBugs
<livingdaylight> BigRedS, and so, you have the workspaces set how?
<BigRedS> You can 'fix' a lot of the odd design decisions in unity that way
<BigRedS> livingdaylight: I told it I wanted one wide and four high
<BigRedS> but you can tell it whatever you like
<Niyakun> livingdaylight: get a netbook with atom processor (like my aspire one aod250) and put ubuntu. I read that it should default to Unity built on Qt but it did not. It loaded Unity (that runs on gnome) and it wasn't responsive
<BigRedS> and ctrl-alt-arrow moves, but I think that's a default anyway
<livingdaylight> ok, i'll have a look, but I'll probably have to move away from Ubuntu for a while until it matures a bit more
<BigRedS> why not just use a different DE under Ubuntu
<BigRedS> ?
<BigRedS> I don't understand this "I dislike Unity so I must use a different distro" thing
<BigRedS> Just seems like a load of unneeded faff
<livingdaylight> ctrl-alt arrows moves them, but I never know whether I'm in the top-left quadrant or bottom right etc
<BigRedS> especially since Xubuntu's packaging of XFCE is pretty good
<oimon> you never get desktop whinge in windows/mac cos you can't change DE
<BigRedS> livingdaylight: yeah, that's why I made them into a strip
<davmor2> livingdaylight: you could try screencloud that should give you similar functionality and is built for Ubuntu maybe?  it would be good to know how it compares
<BigRedS> well, that and 'cause I kept forgetting there was a sideways
<diplo> KungFuPanda: Isn't it in the normal repos on CentOS
<diplo> I thought it was
<davmor2> livingdaylight: it also has an indicator
<livingdaylight> BigRedS, dude, its cos its not JUST the workspace issue - its everything! I happen to use a screencapture tool and have been using clip2net for years and it still works in kde and every other non-unity distro - nothing personal
<KungFuPanda> This version prevents the ImagickPHPÂ class from working properly, and also prevents the extension from being installed via PECL.
<diplo> ah right, version issue
<BigRedS> livingdaylight: okay, so just install kde or xfce or gnome or whatever
<BigRedS> I'm not trying to make you use Unity, just explaining what I did to make unity more friendly
<popey> KungFuPanda, have you considered #centos ?
<BigRedS> switching distros because you dislike the default DE sounds like way more hassle than I'd be up for
<BigRedS> so I spent a bit of time fixing unity, and that seems okay
<BigRedS> and when it's not I use a different DE
<livingdaylight> BigRedS, and I DO appreciate that, amigo - i do... I 'll still install cssm and give it a whirl
<KungFuPanda> thanks, yes, I just join a centos#
<diplo> Good luck in there, not the friendliest bunch :)
<Niyakun> BigRedS: if someone is using LXDE, there is no point of keeping Ubuntu and seeing the Ubuntu screen on boot
<bigcalm_laptop> Niyakun: Ubuntu is more than just the window manager
<BigRedS> Niyakun: why not?
<diplo> popey: Beautiful cat mate, keep debating getting another
<popey> yeah, not mine
<diplo> oh :D
<AlanBell> I would think if you install lubuntu-desktop you will get lubuntu branding and lxde
<popey> if you didnt, its a bug
<Niyakun> why not install LXDE on tiny core linux
<AlanBell> sure, do that if you want
<popey> do that if you want to
<oimon> centos have improved, at least theo other day were v helpful
<diplo> Niyakun: You do understand that the DE is not ubuntu, Ubuntu is the whole ecosystem and support
<diplo> That's why I still use ubuntu as everything else is what makes it better.
<diplo> not the DE
<diplo> heh oimon, I left there and vowed not to go back... but probably will at one point.
<diplo> #perl was similar as well
<oimon> yeah, was much better experience
<diplo> keep meaning to just your sl channel
<oimon> i changed job a bit, so haven't been using SL for 6 months
<diplo> oh, prefer the new work ?
<oimon> better not answer that :S
<oimon> IBM hardware is absolutely terrible
<oimon> shocking
<oimon> something breaks every few days, and the firmware is buggy, and it doesn't work well with vmware
<oimon> etc etc
<diplo> We used to have 2 x Rs/6000's
<diplo> You don't need to preach me about their support, software and hardware sucked
<diplo> But software was worse
<oimon> yeah, java 1GB install just to do something dell would do with an embedded web server
<oimon> their version of DRAC absolutely sucks
<oimon> i hope someone is sacked for chossing IBM
<davmor2> popey:  on quantal do you have an issue with the indicators theme going light grey?
<popey> is that still happening?
<AlanBell> Daviey: are you coming to the BBQ?
<davmor2> popey:  it is here
<popey> bummer
<bigcalm_laptop> Just shortened my stay at oggcamp due to a work commitment on the Monday :(
<Myrtti> AlanBell: do you want foods/drinks to be brought?
<czajkowski> Myrtti: you coming to the BBQ ?
<davmor2> popey: http://ubuntuone.com/3cqXnsL1UNlW38wlQhaWFz
<davmor2> popey:  odd thing is they all started dark some are now light and others are still dark
<popey> i am not on quantal on this system right now
<livingdaylight> hey, where is this bbq? :p
<Myrtti> czajkowski: unless I get eaten by a pair of massive dogs (likely), fall sick (unlikely) or end up in an accident of some sort (very unlikely)
<AlanBell> food/drinks would be great Myrtti, but not essential (just helps it scale better as I have no idea how many people are coming)
<czajkowski> Myrtti: excellent
<Myrtti> AlanBell: alright, I see if I can find nice courgettes and perhaps make a few of my filled mushrooms.
<AlanBell> I will get a heap of basic sausages in the fridge as a fallback
<davmor2> popey: system dark, calendar dark, battery dark, sound, wifi and messaging light
<AlanBell> great, I kind of want people to bring interesting things :)
 * davmor2 wants someone to take an elephant and a tiger now to see AlanBell's face#
<AlanBell> no feeding the chickens to the tiger
 * diplo expects he will be boring and bring usual bbq stuff
<AlanBell> what is the stuff you put in pimms?
<AlanBell> lemonade and assorted vegetation
<brobostigon> mint
<oimon> strawberriess and mint
<popey> an allotment
 * diplo prefers it on it's own, not sure about all this vegetation
<AlanBell> oh, good point I could go get strawberries from the allotment
<diplo> But driving so won't be drinking
<AlanBell> think we have mint in the garden too
<oimon> mint has past it's best this season
<oimon> have a tub full of mint that i forgot to pick :(
<Flashtek> right.. where can I get the files to perform a PXE boot installation ?
<popey> !pxe
<popey> stupid bot
<czajkowski> !ping
<lubotu3> another contentless ping... sigh...
<czajkowski> ah so the bot is alive
<popey> https://code.launchpad.net/~popey/+junk/autoautopilot
<popey> please don't laugh at my rubbish scripting skills :)
<gord> bout as advanced as any bash i've ever written ;)
<czajkowski> new retina has just arrived and all I can here is ooooh ahhhhhh oooer ooooo ahhhhhh
<czajkowski> now we need to get rid of the Air, MBP and one Ipad 2 and a Kindnle
<czajkowski> *kindle
<czajkowski> too many gadgets
<popey> no such thing as too many gadgets
<nothingspecial> There is when you suddenly find that the ipaddresses connected to you router go into the mid 30s
<davmor2> Flashtek: on cdimages.ubuntu.com look for netboot iso that should point you in the right direction at least
<czajkowski> popey: shhh do not tell him that
<davmor2> popey: don't worry I'll tell him, I've weathered the wrath of czajkowski long enough that it doesn't scare me anymore :D
<AlanBell> he doesn't have a trampoline yet
<AlanBell> that is a gadget I think
<christel> AlanBell: strawberries, orange, cucumber, mint (some people put apple in)
<christel> (and pimms, lemonade and gin of course)
<jacobw> AlanBell: does it have a web interface?
<directhex> hmm, i could do with a jug of pimms
<directhex> and a straw
<christel> im sure AlanBell will bring you one!
<AlanBell> jacobw: it is net connected ;)
<bigcalm_laptop> I think that it's unfair that you are talking about the BBQ that I cannot attend :P
<jacobw> :)
<Flashtek> got it, thanks guys
<christel> bigcalm_laptop: that's exactly why we keep talking about it <3
<bigcalm_laptop> Do I want chocolate cake?
<gord> i just had a slice of chocolate and honecomb cheesecake :)
<czajkowski> gord: http://www.konditorandcook.com/
<christel> yes
<christel> that was weird
<christel> a random (drunk) person appeared in my hallway
<christel> wondering if i was father hardacker
<christel> i contemplated saying yes but then the whole "do i look like a man" thing took over and i very kindly explained that the priest no longer lives here before escorting him outside
<bigcalm_laptop> You're very diplomatic :)
<christel> not really, i just need to charm all these random people who appear at my house looking for god
<christel> it'll make it easier when i want to convert them to christelism
 * christel nods
<christel> (it is most peculiar, there is so many of them)
<bigcalm_laptop> :)
<christel> including some random foreign people who were looking for somewhere to sleep, that was very weird, apparently they'd been told to go here.. but their english was a bit rubbish so i might have gotten entirely the wrong end of the stick
<bigcalm_laptop> They didn't speak on of the many other languages?
<christel> not one i speak no :P
<christel> they did a lot of pointing and intense nodding and weird smiling
<christel> (they mainly pointed at the actual church whilst grinning madly and nodding a lot)
<christel> i dunno if they were illegal immigrants or something and perhaps thought that they would be fine if they found a priest or something
<christel> (instead they found me...)
 * christel continues spamming music at bigcalm_laptop 
<bigcalm_laptop> \o/
<bigcalm_laptop> christel has the best taste in music :D
<christel> I KNOW
<christel> :D
<bigcalm_laptop> Naughty language in the tracks though :||
<christel> awww
<bigcalm_laptop> christel: I thought you were such a sweet and innocent girl...
<christel> but but i am :(
<bigcalm_laptop> Oh, ok :)
<christel> you will <3 the next one, honest
<bigcalm_laptop> They are all fun :D
<christel> :D
<popey> davmor2, current daily 12.10.. boot the iso in a vm and I get two keyboard icons in the panel. one for keyboard layout, one for ibus..
<popey> bug?
<christel> speaking of music.. i was playing in the garden earlier and when i stopped there was Clapping from the building site up the road!
<christel> i am not sure if it was because they <3'ed my violin or because i stopped
<christel> :D
<davmor2> popey: no I think it is deliberate check with balloons on #ubuntu-testing
<popey> ok
<bigcalm_laptop> christel: awww :)
<diplo> christel: Ever heard of Lindsey Sterling ( ref violins ? )
<christel> diplo: yes! she puts strings to music you dont expect with!
<christel> :)
<christel> bigcalm_laptop: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aHjpOzsQ9YI you might appreciate her ;)
<diplo> Shes great, been following her for a while now
<christel> :)
<diplo> Got a few other violinists since her that have made me like the sound more
<christel> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7cjymPx4xJg these boys do some pretty cool covers :)
<KungFuPanda> all right I remove php, by yum remove php\*
<KungFuPanda> how do I install it
<KungFuPanda> how do I reinstall php back ?
<diplo> KungFuPanda: Just so you know this is ubuntu channel and people don't always answer straight away
<diplo> But..
<BigRedS> KungFuPanda: yum install php?
<diplo> yum install php will install php itself
<BigRedS> really, we're all the wrong people to ask
<diplo> Also depends what other packages you require like gd etc
<BigRedS> I keep breaking RH flavoured things :)
<diplo> Unfortuantly I spend more time on red hat stuff atm :(
<KungFuPanda> ha, sorry wrong chat window
<BigRedS> haha
<bigcalm_laptop> Good lunch?
<popey> very :)
 * dwatkins notes with amusement that aptitude exists on CentOS
<Laney> rpm exists on ubuntu too
<diplo> as does yum
<Twinkletoes> Is there a chkconfig equivalent in ubuntu?
<diplo> update-rc.d
<diplo> http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/precise/man8/update-rc.d.8.html
<Twinkletoes> diplo: I needed the -f option to make it work
<diplo> :)
<diplo> !info chkconfig
<lubotu3> chkconfig (source: chkconfig): system tool to enable or disable system services. In component universe, is optional. Version 11.0-79.1-2 (precise), package size 9 kB, installed size 68 kB
<diplo> :P
<bigcalm_laptop> !info opsview
<lubotu3> Package opsview does not exist in precise
<diplo> bigcalm_laptop: Think it has a ppa and also there own repo
<bigcalm_laptop> http://docs.opsview.com/doku.php?id=opsview:apt
<bigcalm_laptop> Ta :)
<diplo> Really must get round to trying it one day
<diplo> hmm supported Doesn't show 12.04, even though "Our Polict for ubuntu is to support LTS release"
<diplo> maybe wiki just not up to date
<diplo> Nope, only lucid listed.
<diplo> https://downloads.opsview.com/opsview-community/latest/apt/opsview3/opsview3/dists/
 * popey asks his friend who works for opsview diplo 
<diplo> popey has a man in the know :)
<popey> http://docs.opsview.com/doku.php?id=opsview4.1:platforms
<popey> was the answer
<diplo> http://docs.opsview.com/doku.php?id=opsview-community:platforms Could do with updating that one maybe ?
<diplo> I'm guessing bigcalm_laptop is running 12.04
<bigcalm_laptop> Hai!
<bigcalm_laptop> Q4 :(
<diplo> Install from source otherwise I guess
<popey> its because community is no longer maintained, the new version is called opsview-core
<diplo> opsview-core takes you to the link that bigcalm_laptop posted for opsview-community though, so I guess therre maybe some confusion
<dogmatic69> wtf. rackspace server is downloading updates @ 125kb/s
<diplo> speedy
<diplo> :P
<diplo> icinga has a ppa for precise, another I've not tried yet
<BigRedS> Any xenites know if there's a way I can ask a dom0 for a list of the IP addresses on all the domUs?
<MartijnVdS> Is that even possible?
<BigRedS> I don't know
<MartijnVdS> the domUs just get an ethernet interface, and they can use it as they like, can't they?
<BigRedS> Yeah, I was hoping there was soem built in magic for doing that
<MartijnVdS> libvirt?
<BigRedS> ah yeah, that'd be the sensible way of doing it :)
<ali1234> what happened to the spotify repository?
<MartijnVdS> they changed PGP keys because the old one expired
<MartijnVdS> but that was last month
<ali1234> where do i get the new key?
<MartijnVdS> on their website?
<MartijnVdS> http://www.spotify.com/nl/blog/archives/2010/07/12/linux/ ?
<MartijnVdS> http://www.spotify.com/nl/download/previews/ specifically
<ali1234> thanks
<KungFuPanda> ok, who break down twitter !!! ?
<KungFuPanda> who did ?
<directhex> me!
<directhex> i posted a picture of my willy, so they turned off the site
<BigRedS> What have they got against Orcas?
<KungFuPanda> send me the picture, let me upload to facebook, let's breakdown fb as well,:-D
<directhex> those just get you banned on facebook
<MartijnVdS> Twitter is currently down for <%= reason %>.
<MartijnVdS> We expect to be back in <%= deadline %>. For more information, check out Twitter Status. Thanks for your patience!
<MartijnVdS> \o/ templates
<MartijnVdS> Cheap hour for the firehose customers :P
<KungFuPanda> twitter is down,let me twitte it:-D,
<MartijnVdS> you could G+ it
 * Flashtek burps...
<KungFuPanda> guys, I had a teamcity installed and run by teamcity user, what I need to look at to make it will auto startup everytime ubuntu reboot ?
<KungFuPanda> update-rc.d ?
<JamesTait> OK folks, I'll be making a move now.
<JamesTait> 'night all!
 * JamesTait waves
 * popey waves to JamesTait 
<JamesTait> Cheers, popey. :)
<MartijnVdS> Mexican?
<ali1234> is there an side irc for the ubuntu on air?
<ahayzen> Hi i'm trying to purge the webapps preview and it is stating that it is going to '0 packages upgraded, 3 newly installed, 24 downgraded, 254 to remove and 44 not upgraded.' Removing 254 seems a bit scary, it wants to remove everything! What am it doing wrong?
<dogmatic69> ahayzen: what did you do to get the 254 removed?
<ahayzen> sudo ppa-purge ppa:webapps/preview
<dogmatic69> ahayzen: there are a lot of things in webapps/preview
<ahayzen> but it is trying to remove things that are nothing to do with it... eg linuxtycoon
<dogmatic69> I would assume it is correct so long as you want to 'remove / downgrade everything in webapps/preview'
<dogmatic69> well they may be dependencies that were installed / upgraded
<ahayzen> so what would happen after running the command?
<popey> ali1234, #ubuntu-on-air
<ahayzen> Now i'm after running a upgrade i'm getting 'Could not find package list for PPA: webapps preview'
<ahayzen> maybe i'll just stay on the webapps preview and just hope Firefox doesn't crash too often (yn)
<jacobw> evening
 * AlanBell sets up open wireless hotspot covering the garden for the BBQ
<AlanBell> hope everyone is going to watch the Olympic opening ceremony thing tomorrow, against expectations it will actually be quite good, I saw the rehersal last night
 * bigcalm rumbles in to view
 * jacobw looks out the window at bigcalm 
<bigcalm> The breeze this evening is really making the weather more bearable
 * popey breezes at bigcalm 
<jacobw> british people complaing about everything :)
<bigcalm> Yes we do :D
<jacobw> I've only been gone for two months :P
<bigcalm> Ug, looking at receipts is dull
<bigcalm> I would rather be playing Psychonauts, but it locks up
<bigcalm> Actually, I'd rather be coding for fun :D
 * bigcalm tickles popey
<popey> heh
<popey> sounds like a plan
<bigcalm> \o/
 * popey switches machines
<bigcalm> That man likes his lunch
<diplo> evening all
<bigcalm> Morning diplo
<diplo> :)
<diplo> http://fiber.google.com/plans/residential/
<diplo> you guys seen this ?
<diplo> :(
 * Dave2 wonders if it'd be an absolutely horrible idea to bring a Herman cake to AlanBell's barbecue.
<dwatkins> diplo: why the frown?
<Dave2> Because we can't ge tit?
<Dave2> get it
<diplo> yeah
<ali1234> do not want
<diplo> Well not from google, but the prices/offer
<dwatkins> we'll get it eventually
<diplo> yeah
<diplo> 10 years or so
<diplo> :P
<dwatkins> also, we have much better infrastructure than the US, I gather
<popey> reminds me, need to go to the butchers tomorrow to get some ribs for the bbq
<bigcalm>  Dave2: take it :) We've got a Herman on the go as well
<Dave2> bigcalm, I don't have one on the go, but I can defrost one
<Dave2> A mix, that is
<bigcalm> Freezing doesn't kill it?
<Dave2> Nope
<Dave2> Or hasn't in my experience
<bigcalm> Good to know :)
<bigcalm> Do you pass them on or keep them for yourself to revive now and then?
<Dave2> If people want them I'll pass them on
<Dave2> Otherwise I just keep them
<christel> lo
<dogmatic69> o/
<AlanBell> how can I plug my laptop into my amp which has line in phono inputs?
<hamitron> jack to twin phono?
<AlanBell> does that just work, doesn't need impedance/line level matching magic?
<hamitron> well, not sure if it is best to
<hamitron> but it works
<hamitron> I don't turn the volume too high on the pc
<hamitron> some amps have a setting for phono inputs
#ubuntu-uk 2012-07-27
<GirlyGirl> Anyone knows where we will be able to live stream the opening ceremony online?
<soreau> Hm, that would be cool. When does it start, about ~20 hours from now?
<christel> morning
<GirlyGirl> christel: hi
<GirlyGirl> christel: You wouldn't by any chance know where I can livestream the opening ceremony would you?
<christel> hihi i have no idea
<diplo> Morning all
<diplo> First time back swimming this morning on my own, oh my....
 * diplo may have got a little unfit
<diplo> !
<Dave2> bigcalm, I defrosted a herman I froze in February and it's still alive
 * dwatkins wanders in
<dwatkins> What is a herman, Dave2?
<popey> morning
<popey> http://www.hermanthegermanfriendshipcake.com/
<dwatkins> aha thanks, popey
<dwatkins> I was wondering which entry on wikipedia to choose
<diplo> dwatkins: I came to the same conclusion and gave up :D
<christel> Dave2: \o/
<christel> COFFEE O CLOCK!
<mattt> wow, just saw that irish guy from the IT crowd at the back of the office
<christel> \o/
<bigcalm> Goooooooooood Friday morning peeps :)
<GirlyGirl> Anyone here going to the olympics opening cermony?
<mattt> not i
 * bigcalm is glad to live a very long way away from it all
<bigcalm> Sneezing isn't meant to give me goose bumps. What gives?
<diplo> bigcalm: sitemap.xml or Sitemap.xml or does it not matter for Google/search engines?
<diplo> Not found a good answer yet, guessing i may find one here :)
<diplo> Or my google foo sucks today, which is more likely
<bigcalm> diplo: in my experience, file name are always better off lowercase and without spaces
<bigcalm> Saves a lot of hassle
<diplo> yeah, I always do the same.. I didn't create the last one but it was uppercase and threw me a little
<bigcalm> If the existing one works, then it doesn't matter
<bigcalm> But they are two different files as far as the filesystem is concerned
<diplo> yeah, not sure so updated anyhoo and yeah but i was wondering on the search engine front, if it was me i'd be searching for both but couldn't find confirmation
<diplo> ie a case insensitive search for sitemap.xml
<diplo> And my left click on mouse has stopped working since recent update on 12.04, well not working properly rather than not working.. anyone any ideas on how to debug mouse issues ?
<gord> could it not be the hardware?
<diplo> Could be, but happened straight after an update this morning.. maybe a coincidence but im doubting it
<diplo> It clicks on the unity applications to launch, but can't select on anything anywhere else
<diplo> So I'd say, application rather than hardware
<bigcalm> diplo: you could create a symlink from one to the other
<bigcalm> Cover your bases
<diplo> Good call bigcalm, hadn't crossed my mind
<oimon1> forgot to change my updates server back after specifying one manually to perform an update..500 updates now required, and hopefully i can install stuff again :D
<diplo> And gord, seems to be a unity issue as Cinnamon works fine.
<diplo> heh oimon1
<oimon1> cinnamon \o/
<JamesTait> Is it really...? It is! Happy Friday, everyone! :-D
<bigcalm> :D
 * bigcalm goes back to sleep
<sophtpaw> hi
<AlanBell> morning all
<bigcalm> Howdy AlanBell
<diplo> Morning AlanBell
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<nja> Hello
<nja> good morning
<livingdaylight> good day
<brobostigon> morning nja and livingdaylight
<livingdaylight> question: I'm running xfce on a laptop. I presumed that the lighter the window manager the less the laptop would have to work, which in turn, I further presumed, equals a cool laptop. Can anyone confirm this hypothesis?
<nja> YAY! My Java code works!
<nja> Kinda!
<livingdaylight> I previously tried kde and gnome and my feeling is that xfce is making this laptop run hotter than either and considerably heavier window managers, kde and gnome. kde seemed to make my laptop run the coolest. Would appreciate some feedback and advice - thank you
<diplo> I guess pretty much livingdaylight
<diplo> GPU has to render more, makes it hotter etc
<livingdaylight> i installed powertop but don't know how to interpret the information
<livingdaylight> diplo, something along those lines is what I figured too; makes sense. So, why would xfce make turn this laptop into a hot brick?
<diplo> Tried just running top and seeing what processes are using cpu ?
<popey> you're jumping to conclusions
<popey> first try and see what is eating cpu/gpu
<popey> rather than assume it's the desktop environment
<diplo> What he said, albeit on this laptop i went back to windows as what ever hacks i tried i couldn't stop the fans going
<diplo> Are you sure it's hot, or that fan control isn't working correctly
<diplo> ?
<livingdaylight> not sure about anything, except that this is abnormally hot
<livingdaylight> I got conky running and nothing seems to be eating up cpu voraciously
<popey> I'd kill conky for a start
<livingdaylight> k
<diplo> yep me to
<popey> updating the screen with vital statistics every second or so is going to run the cpu more than not
<livingdaylight> seems to be chewing up less than a 1% of cpu though according to its panel
<nja> yay! Health bars working, now to add credits and stuff
<nja> ah, forget it, I did something today.
<livingdaylight> ok, killed conky
<popey> livingdaylight, open a terminal, make it full screen, and run 'top'
<popey> see what's at the top of the list
<popey> also, what apps do you have running?
<popey> browser etc?
<livingdaylight> popey, firefox, transmission, xchat
<livingdaylight> http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/690/topxv.png/
<livingdaylight> don't know what plugin-containe is, anyone?
<popey> doesnt look busy to me
<popey> although I am not surprised a machine gets hot if it's running transmission for a while
<livingdaylight> no, could be a lot busier and with this going i would expect it way cooler
<popey> what type of machine is it?
<livingdaylight> I had the lid closed for ages and when I came back to it, it was still very warm
<livingdaylight> Acer Aspire TimelineX 4830t
<popey> it was on, with the lid closed, running stuff?
<AlanBell> mine gets hot with the lid closed, it insulates it
<livingdaylight> used to run super cool on windows which is why i chose it. It ran fairly cool on kde, warmer with gnome and HOT with xfce
<directhex> it's that time again!
 * directhex moos
<livingdaylight> AlanBell, shouldn't it hibernate and effectively be doing nothing?
<popey> sleep, not hibernate
<popey> by default yes, but some apps supress that
<AlanBell> oh, depends what it is doing, but if I leave it doing stuff (not sleeping) it gets warm
<popey> probably transmission supressed the suspend
<livingdaylight> ok, sleep. I don't know the distinctions between hibernate, suspend and sleep
<popey> suspend = sleep = suspend to ram
<livingdaylight> popey, didn't have transmission on then
<popey> hibernate = suspend to disk
<livingdaylight> seems the plugin-containe is used by FF to help it stop crashing
<gord> plugin-container = flash
<gord> and yes if you have flash running somewhere, it will destroy your power management ;)
<popey> +1
<livingdaylight> still. odd how differently it performs from one os to another even though i may be using all the same apps
<diplo> Been using same OS but different DE's livingdaylight ?
<diplo> Or totally different os's ?
 * brobostigon unboxes his nexus7.
 * brobostigon sings happy birthday song, to himself.
<diplo> Grr brobostigon :)
<brobostigon> :)
<livingdaylight> diplo, yes. kubuntu, ubuntu and xubuntu. Obviously, I had windows running on here first
<christel> HAPPY BIRTHDAY brobostigon <3
<brobostigon> thank you christel :)
<diplo> So same OS, so the only different you have has been the DE's
<livingdaylight> gord most people use flash and pc's are there to do that, work hard. It doesnt' explain why it runs this hot constantly, even when not using flash. I don't know what the variable is, but it runs differently under different os's even linux ones
<christel> i would sing, but then you'd all leave irc forever :(
<diplo> heh, wouldn't we need a hangout/mumble for that christel ?
<livingdaylight> christel, no, go ahead sing! a la marilyn monroe ;)
<DJones> On an olumpic theme, I like the advert in one of the papers today https://p.twimg.com/AyyyMruCAAANWcg.jpg:large
<popey>            ,,,,,
<popey>           _|||||_
<popey>          {~*~*~*~}
<popey>        __{*~*~*~*}__
<popey>       `-------------`
<popey>  Happy Birthday brobostigon
<christel> diplo: GOOD POINT! lets do that right now
<christel> livingdaylight: hahaha
<brobostigon> thank you popey :)
<livingdaylight> apparently security guards, or whatever they are, have been telling people not to use their cameras
<livingdaylight> http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/olympics/put-your-camera-away-security-guards-offer-glimpse-of-olympic-enforcers-7670707.html
<gord> first time i was in dallas there was some cool art piece next to some tall buildings so friends i was with started taking pictures of it, security guard came out and told us we aren't allowed..
<gord> he seemed like he hated having to tell us that
<livingdaylight> you get the ones who hate having to enforce stupd rules, and are "just doing their job" and then there are also the opposite versions. the overzealous thugs-by-nature exercising their new-found power to enforce laws that don't even exist. Either way its absurd
<livingdaylight> We actually got gifted a couple tickets to see usa and france play basketball this Sunday. Should be fun once we get past airport security :)
<AlanBell> well I can tell you that the event services team have specifically been trained that people taking photos is great, but people bringing 3 foot lenses and huge tripods should probably be on a press pass
<livingdaylight> g4s and proplerly-trained personel probably don't fit together in the same sentence
<livingdaylight> "The five photographers were standing on public property outside the Olympic Stadium on Saturday but were forcibly prevented from taking photos by guards who claimed it was forbidden from where they were standing. Only a week earlier, senior police officials had assured photographers that private security guards have no extra powers to clamp down on photography."
<MartijnVdS> The Netherlands now wants the 2028 Olympics :(
 * popey points and laughs
<czajkowski> why on earth would a place *want* the olympics!
<czajkowski> madness
<christel> NAURA <3
<czajkowski> christel: herrro
<MartijnVdS> czajkowski: The crown prince is an IOC member.
<christel> <3
<MartijnVdS> or used to be anyway
 * czajkowski had the mothership calling me yesterday wondering why the shopping center had been evacuated 
<MartijnVdS> czajkowski: my brother was there, he said the evacuation wasn't a big success
<czajkowski> made news though
<MartijnVdS> czajkowski: "bomb threat", he said
<christel> oh my
<MartijnVdS> Also, https://twitter.com/RonaldvdStreek/status/228472855233441793
<czajkowski> MartijnVdS: yes and my mother knows I live close to that shopping center so she in turn then freaked
<christel> hrm i have been contemplating breakfast for about two hours.. maybe i should make some
<christel> i am thinking smoked salmon and scrambled eggs
<MartijnVdS> Scrambled salmon and smoked eggs
<christel> yes!
<popey> MartijnVdS, your brother is funny
<popey> he got the sense of humour gene huh? :)
<MartijnVdS> popey: Maybe.. :)
 * popey had poached eggs on toast for brekkie
<popey> nyom
<christel> nom!
<MartijnVdS> but.. it's lunch o'clock!
<MartijnVdS> almost
<popey> you and your crazy timezones
<bigcalm> Morning
<knightwi1e> exit
<davmor2> Morning all
<bigcalm> Would be nice if somebody brought me breakfast
 * bigcalm makes do with coffee and paracetamol
<christel> i changed my mind, i am having salami on toasted rye bread and HOT CHOCOLATE
<christel> omnom!
<bigcalm> Yum
<christel> yus, tasty! the salty salami vs the sweet chocolate == morning bliss! \o
<davmor2> ewwww
<bigcalm> Unity? http://cheezburger.com/6440954112
<bigcalm> Is it wrong that I've seen a non-geek try to use a closing tag in a facebook status, but got it wrong? "<\sarcasam>" oh dear
<bigcalm> Is it wrong that it has made me cringe, is what I mean to put
<nja> I cringed when you posted that
<AlanBell> eww
<nja> Can someone please explain to me what this means and why it isn't an IP Address.
<nja> ~nja@cpc17-duns6-2-0-cust206.9-3.cable.virginmedia.com
<bigcalm> !fqdn
<bigcalm> Aww
<bigcalm> Google fqdn
<AlanBell> that is a reverse lookup
<AlanBell> !cloak
<lubotu3> To get any kind of cloak (ubuntu member or any other kind) you first need to set up your nick as detailed in this FAQ: http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#nicksetup -  For Ubuntu member cloaks, ask in #ubuntu-irc and provide your launchpad page, for unaffiliated ones, ask in #freenode.
<nja> Thanks @bigcalm
<AlanBell> ask in #freenode to get a cloak to hide the address
<nja> @AlanBell What does this mean then?
<nja> and my nickname is already setup
<christel> nja: basically if you would rather have a hostname cloak (spoof) to hide your ip/host whilst connected to irc you can request one in #freenode :)
<nja> @christel What do I need to say?
<czajkowski> nja: this isn;t twitter no need to @ nicks just say their name is enough
<nja> @czajakowski What does everyone have against @ signs.  I prefer it as it makes it clear that it's refering to a nickname.
<JohnRobert> hello
<christel> czajkowski: it's the nick completion in his irc client! ;)
<christel> nja: well, you can just ask for an unaffiliated cloak or, if you are an ubuntu member you can request a ubuntu one through ubuntu :)
<JohnRobert> anyone know where raid array info is stored on hard disks with linux software raid?
<JohnRobert> parititon table?
<brobostigon> or buy a dns, and setup reverse dns.
<nja> @christel I'm actually kinda fine with it.  It isn't a big security risk is it?
<czajkowski> nja: you dont need it, it's silly to see on irc and saying a persons name already highlights it
<diplo> JohnRobert: mdadm can give you details
<diplo> Not sure what you are after
<JohnRobert> I've gotten in a right pickle
<christel> nja: not really no, they are certainly used more for vanity purposes than anything else :)
<JohnRobert> I'm trying to recover data off a 3tb hard disk from a WD mybook live
<JohnRobert> I think I've just about fixed the partition table
<diplo> I'm not an expert, but do use it, mdadm -D can print details about your software raid
<diplo> ooh, sounds fun
<JohnRobert> or ruined it.. it's impossible to be sure
<JohnRobert> yeah, unfortunately WD seem hell bent on using raid on just one disk
<JohnRobert> no idea why, but it makes life far more difficult
<diplo> I was about to say, isn't the WD a single disc setup
<JohnRobert> also I have all the fun of funny sector sizes
<JohnRobert> it is in this case
<JohnRobert> wd mybook live 3tb one disk edition
<JohnRobert> basically the controller got killed in a thunderstorm about a year ago
<JohnRobert> strangely enough the hard disk was still spinning, so I ripped it out and it *works*
<diplo> WD Sharespace what you were using ?
<diplo> If so there is a tutorial on the wdc community site
<JohnRobert> I've never heard of sharespace
<bigcalm> nja: it's more normal for nick completion to end with a : or ,
<nja> bigcalm: OK fine then, I just prefered it.
<bigcalm> nja: having a @ in front of nicks is just going to get you more hassle :)
<bigcalm> nja: do whatever you wish. There are no rules about it :)
<nja> bigcalm: I don't get the problem with it!
<christel> hehe
<bigcalm> nja: you might not, but other people do ;)
<diplo> a
<christel> people, that's the problem -- we don't like change.. it unsettles us ;)
<nja> Another thing I don't get is why Virgin Media can't have a functioning website.
<diplo> http://community.wdc.com/t5/WD-ShareSpace/HOWTO-Recover-files-from-a-RAID-1-mirrored-drive-when-the/td-p/138448
<bigcalm> christel: stop on :D
<bigcalm> christel: and spot on
<christel> hehe
 * bigcalm sighs and goes back to his code
<MartijnVdS> hmmm code
<JohnRobert> diplo, it's not mirrored
<JohnRobert> raid0 I think..
<JohnRobert> it's just one hard disk
<nja> So can my FQDN be used instead of an ip addresss, like for connecting to servers and stuff?
<JohnRobert> plus I remember when I was using it it reported 3tb ish free space
<bigcalm> nja: that's what you do when you go to a website URL such as google.com
<diplo> raid0 can't be done one one disc?
<bigcalm> nja: the web browser looks up the IP address that google.com points at and then goes there
<JohnRobert> anyone know what the opposite of mdadm's --create is?
<nja> @bigcalm What I don't understand is WHY I see that instead of my IP Address.
 * diplo thinks wd have some very weird setup
<JohnRobert> diplo, they do
<nja> Sorry, gonna take a while to break the @ habit
<JohnRobert> it's utterly pointless.. just laziness so they don't have to alter the way it works for 2 disk version I think
<bigcalm> nja: because that's how the IRC servers are set to operate
<nja> @bigcalm I need technical details
<bigcalm> nja: then I suggest you search for information on how IRC servers work :)
<davmor2> nja: Why you don't need tech details at all
<brobostigon> i am impressed with the nexus7, it is very smooth, and impressed with the graphics.
<nja> davmor2: Cause I am just that sad
<diplo> JohnRobert: There is bound to be others that have had the same issue
<diplo> model number maybe and can have a google around ?
<popey> AlanBell, just popped to the butchers. bought some mexican spicy sausages, some normal sausages, a rack of ribs and some of their burgers
<czajkowski> davmor2: *PROD*
<czajkowski> popey: oh yummy!!!!
<popey> ribs are currently in the slow cooker in a home made bbq sauce
<czajkowski> hmm wonder what time train to get down tomorrow
<popey> so just need warming/crisping on the bbq tomorrow
<JohnRobert> diplo, the 3tb one isn't quite that popular
<davmor2> czajkowski: Prod you talking and everything ;)
<czajkowski> AlanBell: can you sms me your address please
<JohnRobert> it seems most people gave up trying to mount it
<davmor2> brb
<czajkowski> popey: oh interesting, we have a slow cooker never thought of adding ribs in there
<czajkowski> great call
<popey> yeah, only downside is the house smells lovely for 5 hours
<oimon1> working from home is stressful man
<popey> so if I don't bring any tomorrow you know why
 * popey doesn't think so
<christel> hehe
 * popey just popped to the butchers on an early lunch and swung past the park where the kids were playing
<oimon1> popey: thats cos you don't work for a shambolic organisation
<popey> can't do that at work :)
 * popey holds his tongue
<oimon1> been trying to remote desktop into some servers that should have beeen sorted out months ago
<oimon1> poindering giving up for the day
<oimon1> already 3 hrs behind and feeling uptight
<popey> whereas I have completed testing of new unity on 3 machines sat in front of me \o/
<Twinkletoes> I want to allow users to upload files using scp, which means allowing shell access.  How would I contain them to their home directory so they can't look at any other directories/files on teh system?
 * czajkowski loves working from home, washing all done, caugh up on some shores. Working away and will go for a walk in the park at lunchtime and come back via the shops getting lunch
<oimon1> in other news, i got an email about the gnome screen lock bug that is fixed :D
<MartijnVdS> Twinkletoes: There is a "scp only" tool, that + pam_chroot should keep people in their ~
<oimon1> popey: 5.16 ?
<JohnRobert> Twinkletoes
<JohnRobert> I JUST wrote a blog post on that
<oimon1> 6?
<JohnRobert> yesterday
<JohnRobert> http://john-hunt.com
<JohnRobert> what a coincidence
<MartijnVdS> Twinkletoes: $ apt-cache show rssh
<JohnRobert> my way is easier :p
<popey> oimon, no, an update for precise
<popey> don't think it'll be 5.16
<Twinkletoes> MartijnVdS: Sounds perfect, thank you!
<Twinkletoes> JohnRobert: Reading your blog post nowm, thank you too!
<JohnRobert> yeah, I've played around quite a bit.. I'm not sure my way is the most secure though
<davmor2> popey: What fool took the software-updater out of the system indicator?
<nja> Yay I finally got Virgin Media to give me free Spotify Premium!
<JohnRobert> spotify :/
<nja> Now to cache the entire internets
<oimon1> davmor2: is that why i can't seem to hide that stupid pop up ?
<Laney> nja: how do you go about that?
<Laney> "pay more money"
<nja> @Laney Lots of harddrives
<Laney> no. the spotify
<nja> @Laney it's included in my package apparently
<davmor2> Laney: there was an email about it from VM
<nja> Time for more Teddybearkmusiks!
<Laney> yeah, I don't think I get it
<davmor2> Laney: I'm on XL across the board
<oimon1> dear helpdesk , i am working @ home today, please can you sort it. reply: please can you come to the helpdesk to sort it
 * nja highfives davmor2
<Laney> you need some kind of bundle
<Laney> i only have internets
<davmor2> Laney: that's probably why
<JohnRobert> EXT4-fs (sdb4): bad block size 65536
<Laney> oh well
<JohnRobert> >:/
<JohnRobert> I think that the kernel just doesn't support funny block sizes by default
<JohnRobert> or something weird like that
<JohnRobert> http://pastebin.com/rgiR6XMf
<JohnRobert> here's my partition table
<popey> davmor2, really?
<davmor2> popey: yeap
<popey> davmor2, doesn't it only appear if there are updates?
<oimon1> davmor2: if you manage to hide the popunder thing i'll give you an internet high 5
<davmor2> popey: on +1 I like to check each morning before random updates through the day have chance to break it
<popey> neat
<nja> OK, Gonna play Deux Ex Now
<davmor2> popey: it used to be click top right hit the software-updater let it check and install,  now unless you run it manually, you have to go to about this computer, wait for that to show and then click on the install updates button which then starts software-updater
<nja> No pinging me please
<davmor2> popey: p.s. that's if about this computer actually says there are update available it lies
<popey> nja, ok
<popey> davmor2, or just press super and type "up"
<popey> its the first hit
<bigcalm> nja: will try not to
<popey> bigcalm, good man, nja will appreciate that
<nja> 3 pings
<davmor2> popey: indeed as I said unless you start it manually
 * bigcalm and popey appear to be trolling nja
<popey> however you start it, you're starting it manually
<popey> unless it's already started as oimon indicated
<davmor2> bigcalm: hey come on nja said no pings play nice
<bigcalm> davmor2: well, nja needs to learn not to tell us to not do something :P
 * bigcalm stops for a bit
<popey> nja has indeed underestimated this channel
<popey> davmor2, so i looked at the changelog for indicator-session and dont see the change
<czajkowski> nja: will eventually learn
<popey> wonder if it's in update-notifier
<Twinkletoes> MartijnVdS: rssh looks perfect, except that I also need to offer ftp access to this box, and it doesn't allow ftp login :(
<davmor2> popey: in quantal I see, About this Computer, Ubuntu Help, System Settings, Lock, Sessions, Log out..., suspend, restart, switch off
<popey> same here
<bigcalm> Lunch time!
<davmor2> popey: It happened when the new menu got rolled out :)
<JohnRobert> Disk /dev/sdb - 3000 GB / 2794 GiB - CHS 364801 255 63
<JohnRobert> Analyse cylinder  2968/364800: 00%
<JohnRobert> :(
<popey> davmor2 new menu?
<popey> i should probably restart my session now and then
<davmor2> popey: yeap it merged sessions and system
<popey> oh that, thats been like it for a while
<davmor2> menu==indicator sorry
<popey> but system updaterererer has been in the menu and only left recently
<davmor2> popey: Pass I noticed it gone about 3-5 days ago and thought it was deliberate
<nja> 5 pings
<nja> Anyway done now
<davmor2> nja: Never say never on this channel it will bite you ;)
<nja> davmor2: Like Justin Bieber?
<davmor2> nja: if Justin Bieber bites you get photo's you'll be rich in no time :D
<nja> davmor2: Repeat for infinate moneys!
<nja> Tell you what I'm gonna do
<nja> When this Virgin Media Spotift thing runs out.  I'm gonna download all my tracks and just use Spotify as the player.
<nja> By download I mean legally of course.  ... .......
<nja> It's like streaming, but to my harddrive, not the RAM.
<JohnRobert> hmm
<JohnRobert> right, I think the issue is I need to mount this ext4 fs that has a 65536byte block size
<JohnRobert> and normal kernels don't support that
<JohnRobert> anyone know anything about that?
<JohnRobert> is there a clever value I can pass to /proc somewhere?
<JohnRobert> gleh
<JohnRobert> gotta recompile kernel
<JohnRobert> :/
<czajkowski> To bring some fun to you lives: step 1  open a browser of your choice, 2 go to google.  3 Type in askew
<czajkowski> 4 laugh :)
<nja> czajkowski: That company on the right must get some good free advertising!
<JohnRobert> are there any live distros with a page size > 4k?
<KungFuPanda> hi, one of my server, xorg process take out 60% cpu, how do I know that it is doing ?
<KungFuPanda> it is desktop, but it is not normal right?, it should less than 10%
<davmor2> KungFuPanda: why do you xorg running on a server
<KungFuPanda> davmor2, gui server, got desktop
<davmor2> KungFuPanda: if it is an actual server it might be that the GFX card is crap and the processor is having to do all the work maybe just a guess though
<KungFuPanda> davmor2, en, maybe, it is very old box, got a single core amd 2800+ cpu, maybe gcard crap as well
<davmor2> KungFuPanda: that is just a guess though
<KungFuPanda> davmor2, how to check what gcard I got on it ?
<JohnRobert> lspci
 * davmor2 off to lunch KungFuPanda what he said ^ :)
<KungFuPanda> thanks, is this crap gcard ?  http://paste.ubuntu.com/1113676/
<JohnRobert> ahhh
<JohnRobert> sis
<JohnRobert> I used to have one of those
<JohnRobert> they're not very good.
<JohnRobert> I believe it may have been in my shuttle pc
<JohnRobert> iirc I had issues with the driver
<JohnRobert> but that was with a kernel that is now about 6 or 7 years old at a guess
<JohnRobert> can't remember but there may have been a much better proprietary driver for it
<JohnRobert> worth a google
<MartijnVdS> Not for recent Xorg versions
<MartijnVdS> Intel is where it's at
<KungFuPanda> which line is the gcard information, is it the last line ? or first line ?
<MartijnVdS> KungFuPanda: the one that says 'VGA compatible controller'
<KungFuPanda> thx
<directhex> moo
<directhex> yikes, SiS
<directhex> i had a SiS card as an undergrad
<bigcalm> Somebody needs to take this bag of Maltesers off me :S
 * mattt takes them from bigcalm
<mattt> mmm
<christel> i love maltesers, give 'em here
<christel> i'll look after them
 * christel nods
<JohnRobert> don't tempt me
<JohnRobert> :/
<JohnRobert> I'm getting fat these days
 * bigcalm eyes his bed
<christel> your BED?
<christel> it is only 2pm!
<christel> i am having a liquid lunch today O/
<oimon1> pregnant wife wanted mcD's so i had to help her
<christel> hehe
<diplo> Liquid lunch again christel!
<diplo> Alright for some!
<christel> hehe
<christel> figured i had better practise before tomorrow ;)
<bigcalm> Grr :P
<christel> :D
<christel> OH YES SO BIGCALM WE'RE HAVING THIS AMAZING BBQ TOMORROW
<christel> there will be lots of BEAUTIFUL AWESOME LOVELY PEOPLE
<christel> :P
<dogmatic69> new linkedin looks very microsoft
<popey> aaargh
<popey> my kitchen smells of bbq ribs
<bigcalm> Will they make it to the BBQ?
<popey> they may
<christel> hehe
<davmor2> popey: bigcalm, on precise now in software center is an app that might interest you, it's called mc-launch it installs MC and installs mods too :)
<bigcalm> Does it work correctly?
<DJones> davmor2: Have you got a link for that
<nja> Oh yea, you're all going to be at the BBQ I can't go to :(
<davmor2> bigcalm: I don't know that's why I directed MC players at it
<bigcalm> :)
<AlanBell> afternoon
<DJones> davmor2: Doesn't show up on packages.ubuntu at the minute
<davmor2> DJones: it's not in the repos it's a for purchase app
<DJones> Right
<jpds> Didn't know davmor2 was in sales.
<davmor2> DJones: A massive $2.99 iirc
<bigcalm> davmor2: if it's pay-for, I don't see it taking off
<bigcalm> I could be wrong
<bigcalm> As MC is already something you have to pay for
<jpds> bigcalm: Of course it will, it's got launch in the name.
<DJones> Maybe $2.99 is worth it if it gives you a propery launcher in the unity bar
<davmor2> bigcalm: you'll be surprised
<nja> I think we should make a pertition asking Mojang for better Ubuntu support.
<davmor2> DJones: it's more that it enables you to get java installed, MC installed and any mods in place with easy, more than unity integration
<christel> afternoon AlarmBell
<popey> way!
<popey> er
<popey> wat!
<DJones> davmor2: Ah so its automatix for minecraft :)
<popey> I'm not paying 2.99 for an app that can't even spell "Java"
<davmor2> DJones: indeed
<davmor2> popey: he was just removing the importance away from java :P
<bigcalm> I think Java is fairly important to run MC
<davmor2> popey: he splet it right in the App
<davmor2> spelt even
<bigcalm> Haha
<popey> but not in the screenshot
<popey> (and yes, ironic)
<nja> I paid for Minecraft and I'm not going to pay for a launcher.
<popey> ditto
<bigcalm> davmor2: see, this proves my point
<popey> when i want to run minecraft I actually open a terminal and do:-
<popey> cd Games/Minecraft
<popey> java -jar minecraft.jar
<popey> _every_ time
<popey> :)
<davmor2> yet if it was the ipad or android you would happily pay you can't win can you :D
<bigcalm> Not really
<DJones> davmor2: On Android, I just touch the Minecraft Icon
<gord> a launcher that handles mods for you is something worth paying for surely?
<gord> if you want to use mods
<bigcalm> I'm so vanilla that I haven't even skinned my Steve
<popey> davmor2, the ipad or android dont have the problem
<davmor2> :)  bigcalm popey to be honest you possibly aren't the target audience :)  but I thought I'd let you know about it :)
<bigcalm> davmor2: thank you :)
<nja> So, what are our opinions on Steam for Linux?
<davmor2> in this heat who needs steam
<christel> steamy enough already eh?
<bigcalm> Oh, a sauna followed by shower would be nice
<christel> nja: i'm not much of a gamer so it's quite irrelevant to me, but on a more general level i think it is Good and hopefully something which will contribute to linux becoming the choice for your more average user :)
<davmor2> christel: with your constant taunting of CAKE how can it not be steamy enough :D
<nja> @christel What about issues with the Software Centre?
<nja> Conflictions and etc.
<christel> i am sure they will be fixed, i have great confidence in stuff being fixed ;)
<christel> davmor2: steamy cake? ;)
<bigcalm> This is why it's starting on Ubuntu. Lots of things to iron out
<nja> So long as Tribes Ascend runs, I'm sold.
<jacobw> apt problem
<davmor2> jacobw: What?
<jacobw> i removed a package from X number of servers using clusterssh, which really small terminals, the postrm script calls debconf which uses dialogue and quits in really small windows
<jacobw> so I want to go through X number of servers and remove the package with a normally sized terminal
<jacobw> i guess i need to stop the hung process, reinstall the package and try again
<Azelphur> this is pretty awesome, lockergnome got his dad ("typical user") to try Windows 8, he ended up totally confused and frustrated and the video ended with "They tryin' to drive me to Mac?!"
<Azelphur> couple days later he dropped dad on Ubuntu, dives straight in
<jacobw> normal people are ruining linux for the rest of us :P
<ali1234> really
<Azelphur> haha
<Azelphur> jacobw: imo, Einsteins "If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough" applies to software design
<Azelphur> there's no reason a OS can't be simple while retaining all the fancy functionality, Ubuntu does quite a good job of fitting into that box
<jacobw> ubuntu isn't an OS
<ali1234> no it doesn't
<Azelphur> jacobw: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ubuntu_(operating_system)
<Azelphur> feel free to correct wikipedia :P
<jacobw> i think that'd last not very long
<JohnRobert> I think win8 is actually very usable
<JohnRobert> for most normal people
<JohnRobert> most people I know who just want a web browser
<JohnRobert> ubuntu is an OS isn't it?
<JohnRobert> linux is the kernel
<JohnRobert> ubuntu is the OS
<jacobw> OS doesn't really mean anything
<jacobw> just 'that thing'
<JohnRobert> operating system
<JohnRobert> it's what you interface with
<jacobw> the interface is what you interface with :)
<Twinkletoes> If I use ssh-keygen, and copy the public key for putty to use in Windows, it's not compatible.  Can I create a public/private key pair that is compatible with OpenSSH and putty, when using ssh-keygen?
<popey> why would you want to?
<popey> surely each machine should have its own key
<jacobw> i think you want to copy the private key to windows and the public key to the server
<Twinkletoes> jacobw: Oops, my bad - yes your'e right :)
<diplo> Twinkletoes: Open puttygen and load the public key in there and then copy and paste that
<diplo> the contents of the file differ, don't know why not looked into it
<Twinkletoes> diplo: Yeah, puttygen can save the key in putty format, but WinSCP (for eaxmple) can't use the private key as it is in openssh format
<Twinkletoes> diplo: I was trying to create a key which could be used by both putty (and related progs) and openssh
<diplo> ah okay
<Twinkletoes> diplo: I borked my first question, sorry about that
<diplo> I came into it late as well
<diplo> And popey, I know it's probably best practise but do you create a new key for every server ?
<jacobw> no
<jacobw> i think he means that each server should have it's own host keys
<popey> no i am talking about the client
<popey> no
<popey> i am saying don't copy the client key around, but ssh-keygen on each one
<jacobw> :)
<Twinkletoes> Whats the easiest way of handling openssh and putty format keys?
<Twinkletoes> I can convert, but it's just a PITA
<jacobw> i'm sure there's a key format support by both
<jacobw> it might be the wrapping that's problem
<Twinkletoes> openssh/putty key formats... I installed putty-tools from the repos (which contains puttygen), then just "puttygen >openssh-keyfile> -O private -o <output-file>" which creates a putty-compatible private key file
<Twinkletoes> :)
<oimon1> my cinnamon menu isn't showing (m)any entries, any ideas? http://ubuntuone.com/7EC1QELBZz20PbNjzd1XUy
<yothsoggoth> oimon1, use xfce ;). But seriously, have you used it for a while and it's only just stopped showing entries, or has it never shown any since installing?
<oimon1> on this pc i used to have it installed via svn, but now i'm using newer package
<oimon1> not sure if thre's some old cruft lying around, despite the make uninstall
<oimon1> yothsoggoth: hey you fixed it :D
<yothsoggoth> I did?
<oimon1> i ctrl-alt-f1 and did a purge, then a reinstall, then cinnamon --replace and all works, without even losing my session
<yothsoggoth> nice :D
<oimon1> cinnamon is what gnome2 should have been :P
<ali1234> no it isn't, cinnamon breaks multimonitor support
<oimon1> by breaks, do you mean "works" :P
<oimon1> works for me on nvidia :D
<ali1234> by breaks i mean you can't put any panel on another monitor at all
<oimon1> in expo mode?
<oimon1> or normal use?
<ali1234> in any kind of use
<oimon1> shame, works lovely here
<ali1234> the same goes for anything based on gnome shell
<popey> <oimon1> cinnamon is what gnome2 should have been :P
<oimon1> i have it installed as my main DE on my 4 PCs now
<popey> what does that even mean?
<oimon1> popey: the gnome 2 style DE, but with more friendly systray and expo mode etc, and searchable menu
<ali1234> what is expo mode?
<popey> so you mean, what GNOME3 should have been?
<ali1234> you mean the confusing shell-game inspired window switching method employed by unity and OS X?
<oimon1> well, i mean the features gnome2 should have been adding without drastically changing the way of doing things
<oimon1> ali1234: or the desktop wall mode where you can show a wall of virtual desktops
<yothsoggoth> I like cinammon but find it slightly to buggy for me to bother with constant use atm. I have it installed on my main pc, but reverted back to XFCE after constant crashes with cinammon
<ali1234> i don't see a reason to use cinnamon, it's just aping gnome-panel, and not very well
<ali1234> in the end it has all the same problems as gnome-shell
<oimon1> gnome shell doesn't even let you switch apps
<oimon1> without going into some overlay thing
<oimon1> ali1234: i'm sure you would like cinnamon if you quite liked gnome2
<ali1234> neither lets you switch apps at all if they aren't on the primary monitor
<ali1234> in fact they both act as if those apps don't exist at all
<yothsoggoth> I don't mind gnome shell too much on my laptop, because I never use the mouse to switch apps or anything anyway, always alt+tab. But I couldn't stand it on my main pc, nor Unity.
<oimon1> someting's wrong with your setup
<ali1234> no, it is by design
<oimon1> it's completely nomral here
<ali1234> yu only have one monitor
<oimon1> at work i have 2
<ali1234> so how do you put a panel on the second monitor then?
<oimon1> you want the menu/apps/systray panel to spread across both monitors?
<ali1234> i don't use gnome-panel with default settings - the defaults are rubbish if you have two monitors
<ali1234> no
<ali1234> i want independent window lists on each monitor
<ali1234> and a start menu on each monitor
<ali1234> essentially, if either monitor were turned off, i would be able to use the computer normally
<oimon1> sounds a bit special, sounds like you want the 2 X server setup
<ali1234> why would i want 2 X servers? then i can not drag windows between monitors
<yothsoggoth> ali1234: What do you use? Sounds like a nice setup for multimonitors
<ali1234> i use gnome-panel
<yothsoggoth> ahh, as in "fallback mode" gnome-panel?
<ali1234> yes
<ali1234> https://plus.google.com/u/0/117474986382867317779/posts
<ali1234> hmm
<yothsoggoth> I might have to give that try, sounds good for two monitors. It's surprising how ignorant all of the DEs are for decent multimonitor support
<ali1234> https://plus.google.com/u/0/117474986382867317779/posts/82D6UjGZh6L
<ali1234> that
<oimon1> there is a request @ https://github.com/linuxmint/Cinnamon/issues/130
<ali1234> gnome-shell can't even do half the stuff in that screenshot
<yothsoggoth> looks good, just like <10.04
<ali1234> not even with extensions
<ali1234> oimon1: see also issue 104 like it says in comments
<ali1234> https://github.com/linuxmint/Cinnamon/issues/104
<ali1234> when they fix both those problems, gnome-shell might just about be usable on multimonitor
<oimon1> because i'm on dekstop PC at work with 2 mons always on, this doesn't really arise
<oimon1> for me
<ali1234> so am i
<oimon1> but i can see why you might want it
<ali1234> it has nothing to do with turning the monitors off
<oimon1> if you had a laptop, or projector
<ali1234> if you put windows on the second monitor under gnome-shell, they appear on every desktop, and cannot be managed
<ali1234> gnome-shell just acts like they don't exist at all
<ali1234> i need a launcher and task list on every monitor because i run things fullscreen all the time
<ali1234> and because it makes it easier to find windows
<ali1234> it's much easier to switch to a window by going to the desktop it is on, then selecting it
<ali1234> it's much easier that way than just getting blasted with a list of everything on the system in a random unorganized way
<ali1234> which is what unity and gnome-shell do
<Azelphur> Has anyone ever managed (or know how to) use an android tablet as a secondary monitor?
<nja> I'm back!
<nja> poor you guys.
<christel> welcome back nja \o/
<nja> christel: :D
<nja> It's me and my DLLP IP thingy that I forgot the name of!
<christel> hehe
<nja> @christel What are you doing?
<nja> I've finally got around to sorta do some work!
<Pendulum> nja: it's friday. why would you do work?
<nja> @Pendulum cause I ... erm... feel like it?
<Pendulum> fair enough, just not used to folks sounding excited about work on a Friday evening
<nja> @Pendulum It's sorta a personal project, so I don't mind
<nja> My friends and I are tring to set up somekind of a games company.
<christel> nja: \o/ i am about to cook dinner :)
<nja> @christel WOW U R SO LUCKY!
<nja> I iz so jelly right now
<christel> haha
<Dave2> christel, I AM ABOUT TO COOK HERMAN
<nja> https://www.facebook.com/pages/Sour-Cherry-Studios/254050217991937 is the link if anyone is interested.  I suck at facebook page owning.
<christel> Dave2: OH MY GOD THIS MAKES ME SO EXCITED
<MartijnVdS> à² _à² 
<nja> WE love Workin SO MUCH!
<christel> Dave2: i cant wait to try your hermen! ;)
<nja> OH, I thought you typed German
<nja> oops
<christel> hahaha i should hope he's not cooking any germans!
<nja> I think I can hear them in his frying pan
<christel> screaming :(
<Dave2> I need to decide what's a sensible time for getting there
<nja> Olympic Open Ceremony Tonight!
<nja> What's the Olympics again?
<christel> Dave2: 7am!
<christel> Alan would Appreciate that!
<nja> Ha
<nja> It's a bit far for me to travel :(
<Pendulum> christel: because of time difference g+ tells me it starts at 7AM
<nja> Supper time for me now
<nja> Enjoy your fried Germans.
<christel> Pendulum: PERFECT!
<christel> i do love an early start! ;)
<davmor2> bigcalm: I am now a fellow 407 sw owner :)
<JamesTait> Right-oh, time for me to call it a week.
<JamesTait> 'night all, have a great weekend!
 * JamesTait waves
<bigcalm> davmor2: good show :)
<alexcockell> BBC coverage of the buildup started...
<MartijnVdS> long Benedict Cumberbatch monologue earlier
<christel> JamesTait: \o have fun m'dear
<MartijnVdS> Dizzee Rascal now?
<jacobw> MartijnVdS: monologue?
<MartijnVdS> jacobw: he was talking to himself for 5 minutes
<MartijnVdS> jacobw: I call that a monologue ;)
<nja> How were the Germans?
<Azelphur> oh wow, xrandr scaling is awesome
<Azelphur> running my netbook at 1080p, https://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/Photos/2012/July/IMG_20120727_193247.jpg https://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/Photos/2012/July/IMG_20120727_193503.jpg
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: orly :P
<Azelphur> :D
<nja> Wow
<popey> http://img.izismile.com/img/img5/20120705/1000/classic_msdos_video_games_26.jpg
<Dave2> christel, there's no such thing as 7AM
<Dave2> everybody knows that
<Azelphur> Dave2++
<popey> +1
<popey> also hello dave2
<Dave2> y helo thar
<jarifle> sup peeps
<nja> Hi Jari
<jarifle> hy bugeer
<jarifle> bugger
<jarifle> windows is AMAZING
 * nja facepalms
<jarifle> windows is AMAZING
<jarifle> windows is AMAZING
<jarifle> windows is AMAZING
<nja> wrong channel
<jarifle> windows is AMAZING
<Azelphur> !ops
<lubotu3> Help!  dgjones, Myrtti, Mez, jono, popey, Gary, Seeker`, Daviey, PriceChild or X3N
<jarifle> lol
<nja> #fanboism is the next block along
<Seeker`> bah, seconds too late
<popey> heh
<popey> me too
<Azelphur> hehe
<nja> @Seeker` for what?
<popey> i propose Azelphur is made op
<Azelphur> oO
<nja> I propose nja is made op
<nja> wait what?]
<Seeker`> popey: As long as he promises not to torture any more arduinos, sure
<Seeker`> :P
<Azelphur> no guarentees, I like torturing arduinos
<nja> Arduino Murderer!
<popey> in the last few times an ops call has been made, its been by Azelphur iirc
<Azelphur> xD
<Azelphur> I'm happy to be an op if you guys want me :)
<popey> it makes sense given you see abuse first
<nja> nja for President
<Seeker`> nja: you spelt 'popey' wrong
<popey> nja for popey ?
<Azelphur> popey: it's my tiling setup that does it, because I have an overview of most of the channels I'm on at any one point, I can very quickly pick up on channel attacks
<Seeker`> popey: yus
<popey> Azelphur, indeed, i had that in mind when i was thinking it :)
<nja> Peeps, stop distracting me from my programming
<Azelphur> hehe
<Seeker`> Azelphur: what you actually mean is that its because you spend more time than is healthy on irc :P
<popey> pffft
<Azelphur> that too :D
<popey> healthy smelthy
<nja> @Seeker` +1
<Azelphur> hey, I'm going to go outside tomorrow
 * Azelphur grimmaces
<popey> Nooooooooooooooooo
<Seeker`> me too
<popey> the big blue room will explode
<Azelphur> xD
<popey> i am going to AlanBell's house with my meat
<Seeker`> I've been layering sunblock on all week in preparation
<popey> if I ask nicely maybe AlanBell will baste my meat while friends watch
<nja> It's supposedly 26C in this room.  Eurgh, both windows open and fan at max :(
<Seeker`> popey: you want people to chew on your meat?
<popey> i want them to enjoy my meat inside them, yes
<Azelphur> will it be a pleasurable BBQ?
<popey> in fact I may bring a container of my juice which they can smear on my meat before they devour it
<nja> credits += kittens.getCreditGain();
<nja> sorry, I have a thing where I sometimes post code snippets in chat.
<Seeker`> did you make the juice yourself?
<popey> i did indeed!
<popey> i mixed it up in a jar
<popey> its very sticky
<soreau> Azelphur: it will be an omgwtfbbq for sure
<Azelphur> :P
<Azelphur> soreau: I found xrandr scaling, I'm having fun
<soreau> Azelphur: oh neat
<Seeker`> Azelphur: where are you going tomorrow?
<Azelphur> Seeker`: cousins wedding
<Seeker`> :O
<Azelphur> Seeker`: you can just tell it's gonna be crazy with my family lol
<nja> Now playing Spotify playlist: "WHY DO I LISTEN TO THIS!"
<popey> soreau, you coming to the bbq?
<nja> Pretty much chart stuff
<popey> heh, i have one of those
<popey> it's my starred list :S
<soreau> popey: nah, I'm stuck in .us
<Azelphur> Seeker`: we've got 3 people with busted cars, one person who plans to pick up cloths for the wedding on the morning of the wedding, and the Olympics starting so heavy traffic, sounds like the perfect storm xD
<popey> ah
<Seeker`> Azelphur: where have you got to get to?
<Azelphur> Margate -> Dartford
<Azelphur> I'm just gonna use a coach
<Seeker`> heh
<Seeker`> I;ve gotta get in to London tomorrow
<Seeker`> gonna be fun
<Azelphur> hehe
<soreau> popey: but just for the record, I don't claim to be american no matter what my birth certificate says :P
<AlanBell> evening all
<Azelphur> soreau: British American :P
<AlanBell> popey: your meat will be safe in my hands
<AlanBell> everyone watching the olympic ceremony stuff?
<Azelphur> I'mma try pushing my 1080p desktop monitors up to 1440p, if this looks good, I could be a happy panda.
<soreau> popey: AlanBell: You must live stream the meat basting marathon
<Seeker`> Azelphur: erm
<Seeker`> erm
<Seeker`> erm
<Seeker`> how?
<popey> AlanBell, you there?
<AlanBell> soreau: yeah, I think I will
<ali1234> ERM
<soreau> but really, will there be any live stream of olympics other than nbc?
<AlanBell> Pendulum: found a stream somewhere
<Azelphur> Seeker`: xrandr scaling :D
<ali1234> i could live stream 1 channel for one person, in a blatant infringement of copyright
<Seeker`> itll just be a downsampled image then?
<popey> i wonder if AlanBell is on his phone
<AlanBell> Azelphur: I would doubt pushing things beyond native will help
<AlanBell> popey: on laptop in front of the telly
<popey> ah
<AlanBell> just been making ice lollies
<popey> ribs are super tasty
<Pendulum> soreau: will PM you details
<Azelphur> Seeker`: yea
<soreau> Pendulum: cool, thanks
<Azelphur> hmm, this is odd
<Azelphur> xrandr says I only have two monitors connected
<Azelphur> oh I see it's only showing screen 0
<Azelphur> lol I scaled it up, end result is just some black bar at the bottom of the screen
<Azelphur> it's weird though I can move my mouse there just not windows
<Azelphur> oh of course I know why, fakexinerama
<popey> xrandr offers me 8 devices :)
<popey> on a laptop :)
<nja> Health bars - Fun Stuff
<AlanBell> 20:12!
<bigcalm> You said that at 20:11
 * Flashtek waits for 20:12 20/12/2012
<jacobw> :)
<jacobw> quite a while to go yet
<Flashtek> ya
<nja> If Earth was to explode.  Think of the guys at the ISS.
<Flashtek> "OMGWTFBBQ!!!!"
<Flashtek> "uhh.. Huston, I think we have a problem..."
<Flashtek> "Huston.. oh, wait..."
<alexcockell> As long as the fireworks don't cause the Rapier batteries to engage them...
<MartijnVdS> alexcockell: "Oops"
<alexcockell> Well- that WAS mentioned in Twenty Twelve...
<christel> haha
<christel> bigcalm: i think we should club together to get him a clock!
 * AlanBell blames the red arrows for any timing inconsistency
<christel> hehe
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: why? were they off?
<christel> we're also watching the olympics foreplay, david was most excited by the red arrows :)
<AlanBell> no, don't think so
 * bigcalm is still working
<MartijnVdS> if Jake's at the Olympics.. Lee will be doing the F1 coverage?
<christel> bigcalm: its nearly 8.30 on a friday evening.. wrap up work and watch the olympics opening ceremony!
 * MartijnVdS wants David Tennant to do some torch relaying
<bigcalm> It won't happen :)
 * bigcalm is Mr Killjoy
<bigcalm> The Cure - Love Island
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: you should have exported Doctor Who more, so the rest of the world would have known about it ;)
<bigcalm> Strangely up-beat sounding track by The Cure :)
<nja> Good night all
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: sorry :(
<nja> Still tired from plane journet last night and 00:00
<nja> *at
<nja> bye
<bigcalm> Hurrah!
 * daubers ponders either fire + whiskey or a bath
<MartijnVdS> why not zoidberg?
<jacobw> fire?
<MartijnVdS> firewhiskey?
<daubers> garden + chimenea + fire = much relaxing
<jacobw> :)
* AlanBell changed the topic of #ubuntu-uk to: Welcome to #ubuntu-uk! http://ubuntu-uk.org | This channel is publicly archived http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Mailing List http://tinyurl.com/uukml | Support Guidelines http://tinyurl.com/uuksupport | Meeting 04/08/12 18:00 BST #ubuntu-uk-meeting | Olympics \o/
 * Azelphur sets mode +o Azelphur
 * Azelphur runs
<bigcalm> o.O
<Azelphur> fun :D
<Azelphur> my 9.8 seconds of fame
<AlanBell> maypole dancing :)
<popey> lol weather report
<AlanBell> the shipping forecast
<popey> yeah
<popey> that alone makes me more nostalgic than anything else :)
<Azelphur> this kid wants to build a computer, what should I tell him? http://pastebin.com/qbjAbX3L
<MartijnVdS> also.. shouldn't Proms be done at RAH 8-)
<AlanBell> every seat has 9 pixels, the whole stadium is a jumbo screen
<alexcockell> LOL-  this is Nimrod with the Shipping Forecast 8-D
<popey> way past sophies bed time
<ali1234> Azelphur: tell him to buy a mac, that's what i do
<Azelphur> ali1234: lol
<ali1234> hmm
<ali1234> if i select a bunch of items from SQL... how can i select this item, and also the previous and next items?
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: that's a bit hard
<ali1234> of course :)
<MartijnVdS> turd de france?
<ali1234> if it was easy i wouldn't need to ask :)
<christel> good sideburns
 * christel nods
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: you'd have to select the rows you want.. then put that in a subselect twice to select the surrounding ones
<MartijnVdS> also
<MartijnVdS> "order" is on-output of course
<ali1234> i could just return the entire query and then get the items i need with a for loop, but that sucks obviously
<MartijnVdS> I'd ask stackoverflow :)
<ali1234> problem is i don't have a way to get the position of an item in the list
<MartijnVdS> that's because ordering is the last thing done on output
<AlanBell> is the obvious but inelegant for loop actually a functional problem?
<MartijnVdS> but.. elegance!
<AlanBell> but . . . fix actual problems
<ali1234> a functional problem?
<ali1234> it makes wordpress go super slow f that's what you mean :)
<AlanBell> does it cause a detectable delay
<AlanBell> ok, so yes then
<ali1234> maybe it doesn't actually... every page already does it once to make the menu
<ali1234> see http://dev.drumoff.tv/?v=209
<ali1234> 3 videos... those >> and << have to link to the previous/next videos
<MartijnVdS> what about storing prev/next as extra columns
<MartijnVdS> moving the hard work to insert/update time
<ali1234> yeah, not a bad idea
<AlanBell> tidy up time ;)
<popey> suitably bonkers
<DJones> Evening
<mattt> bonkers?
<mattt> someone talking about the olympic opening?
<popey> ya
<mattt> bloody weird
<SuperEngineer> This folks. is how one does an opening ceremony for several millions less than the last one - hope it doesn't show ;)
<mattt> is how i'd describe it :)
<popey> its just different
<popey> different culture and history
<MartijnVdS> holyy
<mattt> it's very interesting
<MartijnVdS> well it's quite a busy one :)
<mattt> love the history component
<christel> mattt: i was a tad underwhelmed but i am starting to enjoy it now :)
<MartijnVdS> ah yes.. beatles
<AlanBell> christel: it is only just getting warmed up
<Seeker`> still got about 3 hours left, hasn't it?
<christel> AlanBell: so i see ;)
<AlanBell> nobody else smelts steel on stage like that ;)
<christel> hehe
<Pendulum> I actually like how rather than trying to "outdo" the last few opening ceremonies, it really is taking a very different approach
<AlanBell> gosh what a nice round circle that is in the middle
<Seeker`> wonder what will come out of the middle
<MartijnVdS> olympic rings
<MartijnVdS> or the logo
<ali1234> does php array [] support -1 for "last item in list"
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: reddit.com/r/lolphp
<AlanBell> Pendulum: yeah, thats what I like about it, lots going on, lots a bit unscripted and random, and overall rather british and ecentric
<MartijnVdS> Seeker`: olympic rings :)
<MartijnVdS> dancing men in top hats look weird though
<AlanBell> hats++
<Seeker`> MartijnVdS: singular :P
<MartijnVdS> Seeker`: ok but the other ones were magiced in
<mattt> that is cool
<AlanBell> well that is the intro done
<Seeker`> very prettu
<Seeker`> *pretty
<MartijnVdS> one sparkler isn't done yet
<Seeker`> heh
<Seeker`> 2 started early
<christel> AlanBell: how does this compare with in the flesh? :)
<AlanBell> christel: my telly doesn't go loud enough
<christel> hehe
<AlanBell> and I put the sub and speakers in the other room for the BBQ tomorrow
<christel> mmmbbq
<popey> stephen fry?
<MartijnVdS> yeah, I'd have come but a boat trip would be â¬500 and I don't think there's a place to sleep left in the south east
<popey> ah, bond
<popey> BONKERS
<MartijnVdS> popey: nah  Dizzee Rascal was HOURS ago ;)
<MartijnVdS> but I agree, this is strangely weird :)
<MartijnVdS> or is it weirdly strange
<DJones> Is this where the queen swoops across the olympic stadium to the Ride of the Valkeries music
<AlanBell> ooh I recognise the underside of that helicopter I think
<AlanBell> maybe she is going to fast rope down to her seat
<DJones> Hmmh, AlanBell is a landing pad
<MartijnVdS> à² _à² 
<jacobw> lol @ lolphp
<Azelphur> Oh god, I just saw this hilarious conversation between a VPS host and a customer, http://pastebin.com/pqSpBUk5
<Azelphur> greatest IRC comedy ever
<AlanBell> bonkers!!!
<popey> lol
<MartijnVdS> completely insane
<AlanBell> it hovered over the stadium on wednesday but the queen stayed inside
<popey> why french first?
<MartijnVdS> Because French
<popey> outrage
<Seeker`> popey: the french are slow, takes them longer to get it
<SuperEngineer> Yea Gads!  That brooch on her Maj is an Ubuntu circle of friends.....
<popey> haha
<christel> hahaha
<DJones> Have they got the right flag?
<MartijnVdS> The French are taking back England
<AlanBell> now will they leave the flag at half mast this time, that is the question
<SuperEngineer> oh well G4S late again... here comes the army to take their place!
<Seeker`> AlanBell: ?
<popey> no because she's in residence
<MartijnVdS> Chaos signing choir?
<popey> fail
<popey> not showing the signing choir
<popey> nice that they're in jimmy jams
<MartijnVdS> stern look from the queen
<DJones> Somebody tell her to smile
<Seeker`> she looks more impressed than she did at the jubilee
<MartijnVdS> Tubular bells?
<DJones> Yep
<popey> lol
<AlanBell> this bit rocks
<Seeker`> elrbjsebhew;lbje MIKE OLDFIELD elrels;ljesbj esr NHS
<jacobw> where can watch?
<MartijnVdS> jacobw: BBC One?
<popey> Seeker`, i thought that
<MartijnVdS> jacobw: ZDF?
<DJones> Thats where my wife is, she's supposed to be at a hen party
<Seeker`> :O live tubular bells?
<MartijnVdS> jacobw: ZDF (HD) is doing the ceremony
<Myrtti> AlanBell: were sitting at a service station in somewhere close A21, engine boiled at Dartmoor bridge and according to RAC the engine might be done for. were getting a tow back home, sorry it didnt work out :-(
<MartijnVdS> jacobw: if you can't get _that_ in Germany..
<AlanBell> oh Myrtti, sorry you can't make it
<AlanBell> hugs for Myrtti
<czajkowski> Myrtti: *hugs* so close
<Seeker`> poorMyrtti
<jacobw> zdf ftw :)
<MartijnVdS> jacobw: too bad it's in german :P
<christel> i want a bed trampoline!
<jacobw> what
<jacobw> NHS?
<popey> ubuntu orange and aubergine
<jacobw> huh?
<Seeker`> christel: me too
<Seeker`> jacobw: you don't know what the NHS is?
<christel> :D
 * AlanBell has a trampoline
<MartijnVdS> jacobw: they probably sponsor the doping
<Seeker`> christel: with a glowing bowl?
<Seeker`> wtf did  I say bowl for
<popey> i want a glowing duvet
<Seeker`> blanket
<christel> AlanBell: i know.. but i am not sure you'd want me sleeping in it! ;)
<christel> Seeker`: yes :D
<MartijnVdS> heh  https://twitter.com/ladychatterley/status/228952541017284608
<MartijnVdS> They see her Rowling, they hating?
<christel> haha
<MartijnVdS> Those could be Doctor Who baddies 8-)
<Seeker`> commentators need to shut up
<Seeker`> their mics create echo
<AlanBell> Seeker`: agreed
<MartijnVdS> Seeker`: switch to the alternate HD channel (one of the 24 HD streams on FreeSat)
<Seeker`> which one?
<MartijnVdS> most of them?
<MartijnVdS> BBC Olympics 1 HD"
<MartijnVdS> works for me
<SuperEngineer> commentator at BBC for ceremony said "I really like the use of children in the opening ceremony so far"!!!! GetThePolice
<AlanBell> won't somebody think of the children
<AlanBell> it is good seeing stuff from above
<jacobw> when is god save the queen coming?
 * jacobw waits
<MartijnVdS> jacobw: some children just sang i
<MartijnVdS> t
<MartijnVdS> and signed it
<Seeker`> MartijnVdS: don't have that one in my listing for some reason :(
<jacobw> oh
<Seeker`> starts at 4 for me
<MartijnVdS> Seeker`: it might show up as a red button channel for you
<Seeker`> yeah, trying to load it now
<Seeker`> 'please wait...'
<SuperEngineer> WEEE Mr Bean!
<AlanBell> mr bean!
<DJones> jacobw: Maybe they'll play it again at the end with a Tupak style 3D hologram of The Sex Pistols
<jacobw> hehe
<christel> itym blackadder!
<christel> ;)
<DJones> Brillant facial expressions
<soreau> lmao, Mr. Bean
 * MartijnVdS watches Rowan Atkinson's Twitter feed
<MartijnVdS> (does he have one?)
<MartijnVdS> Matt Smith!?
<SuperEngineer> i WONDER WHAT THE REST OF THE WORLD MAKES OF THIS BIT ;)
<AlanBell> brilliant!!
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: the rest of the world thinks it's just another Mr Bean sketch
<popey> yay fart gag
<SuperEngineer> [sorry for shouting]
<AlanBell> this was a placeholder, they just played the fart for no apparent reason
<AlanBell> need more loud
<jacobw> i saw a talk by micheal fish a few years ago
<MartijnVdS> 80s music!
<jacobw> i think he won't be amused
<DJones> If they're doing British digital age, when do they do the a Big Bother sections
<christel> hehe
<MartijnVdS> txt spk
<jacobw> i don't even want to know who these people are
<Seeker`> london underground....those lazy...
<SuperEngineer> The sad thing is: all those performers actually believe they're *promoting* GB - oh well.
<jacobw> are they?
<MartijnVdS> Dalek girls?
<jacobw> :)
<DJones> Lamp shades
<MartijnVdS> DJones: Daleks.
<MartijnVdS> Better than G4S :P
<DJones> No rubber plunger
<AlanBell> a little bohemian rhapsody I think ;)
<AlanBell> good call
<jacobw> i'm finding imaging the reaction of prince phillip to everything amusing
<AlanBell> tardis!
<Seeker`> TARDIS
<DJones> :)
<jacobw> ha, sex pistols inclusion
<DJones> This reminds me of being a student
<soreau> heh, prodigy
<popey> LAGER LAGER LAGER LAGER! Welcome to Britain!
<Seeker`> wb popey
<MartijnVdS> popey: BONKERS
<Laney> when will flash learn to inhibit the screensaver :(
<Seeker`> get slightly overexcited?
<SuperEngineer> is popey buying?
<popey> got that battery beep that meant I had to run and get a charger
<popey> Laney, I AGREE!
<MartijnVdS> popey: olympic record?
<Laney> i think the answer is "never"
<MartijnVdS> Laney: flash is dying isn't it?
<Laney> we can hope
<AlanBell> yay
<popey> LOL!
<popey> TBL
<Seeker`> TBL!
<Seeker`> woo
<christel> awesome
<AlanBell> Tim Berners Lee
<DJones> How long before "NOW This Is What You Call Olympic Opening Cermony" music is released
<MartijnVdS> DJones: donkers.wav
<MartijnVdS> b*
<popey> lol
<DJones> Heh
<popey> DJones, tomorrow
<DJones> Midnight :)
<SuperEngineer> Welcome Tim SuperEngineer bows
<popey> https://twitter.com/timberners_lee/status/228960085672599552
<MartijnVdS> Stern queen is stern.
<DJones> Anybody seen the Greek flag on ebay yet?
<AlanBell> nice hats
<popey> lol PSB
<mattt> alright i'm done
<mattt> that's enough ceremony for me
<AlanBell> flame to go yet
<popey> we're only up to c so far!
<AlanBell> and it is in the order of the language of the host nation so they should be in the sequence we would expect
<AlanBell> nice wellies czech
<AlanBell> and brollies
<SuperEngineer> SuperEngineer is praying for a either a time warp or at power cut at the stadium... getting boring now
<SuperEngineer> ..they're atheletes - can't they go any faster????
<popey> beautify danish people
<AlanBell> so what did everyone think of the show?
<alexcockell> Not too bad - but they did jump about a bit in the music chronology
<mattt> eritrea?
<mattt> i need to read more books
<pjs_> hi, does anyone know if there is a straightforward way to perform a low level format from the ubuntu live cd?
<SuperEngineer> 'm frightened now. Just seen Michael Jackson carrying on of the flags!
<alexcockell> And BeeGees playing out...
<alexcockell> Good thing I'm recording this.
<yothsoggoth> pjs_: Have you tried using gParted?
<yothsoggoth> That's the most straightforward way you'll find probably
<pjs_> yothsoggoth: gparted only offers the minimally destructive formatting options, what I'm wanting is to nuke the drive before I throw it away
<popey> you probably dont want low level format
<popey> it doesnt do what you think it does
<AlanBell> you probably want to use dd to write zeros or random
<popey> it's sufficient to just sudo dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sda
<pjs_> ah, cheers
<popey> where /dev/sda is the right device :)
<mattt> lol
<AlanBell> gamesmaker holding the flag
<AlanBell> I get that uniform
<AlanBell> cheer up queenie
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: "those people used to be part of our empire"
<MartijnVdS> "and those"
<MartijnVdS> "and those"
<mattt> "but could be worse, we could be holland."
<MartijnVdS> mattt: hah. the Dutch antilles athletes are under the "independent athletes" flag
<mattt> MartijnVdS: why is that ?
<MartijnVdS> They became more independent last year
<MartijnVdS> so I think there hasn't been enough time to get together a proper olympic body
<mattt> ah, i see
<AlanBell> ah Bolt is using the holster :(
<MartijnVdS> the Dutch olympic people offered, but they refused
<AlanBell> wuss!
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: "he's 95% fit"
<AlanBell> Borat!
<mattt> booorat!
<mattt> hahah
<MartijnVdS> well? can ya?
<AlanBell> comentators carfully not saying anything about Borat
<jacobw> poor nation :(
<AlanBell> http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/olympics-fourth-place-medal/borat-national-anthem-accidentally-played-kazakh-athlete-video-224008124.html
<AlanBell> the drummers are holding up well
<MartijnVdS> "y" isn't a vowel in English?
<AlanBell> it is in Welsh
<MartijnVdS> it's one in Dutch :)
<MartijnVdS> (usually)
<mattt> hahaha
<mattt> that link is terrible
<livingdaylight> hi
<popey> i like how the olympic lanyards are in Ubuntu and Canonical colours
<livingdaylight> sudo add-apt-respository ppa: <package_name> is command line for adding ppa's? How do I adapt this : deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/pinta-maintainers/pinta-stable/ubuntu precise main  , please? Is it simply: sudo add-apt-repository ppa: pinta ?
<MartijnVdS> popey: You have that much influence now? 8-)
<popey> sudo add-apt-repository ppa:pinta-maintainers/pinta-stabl
<popey> +e
<popey> sudo add-apt-repository ppa:pinta-maintainers/pinta-stable
<livingdaylight> I see, thx popey
<popey> launchpad
<popey> bah
<popey> https://launchpad.net/~pinta-maintainers/+archive/pinta-stable
<popey> "You can update your system with unsupported packages from this untrusted PPA by adding ppa:pinta-maintainers/pinta-stable to your system's Software Sources."
<MartijnVdS> what's pinta?
<livingdaylight> how do we know to trust or not ppa's ?
<MartijnVdS> you don't trust them.
<AlanBell> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/SupportersGuide
<AlanBell> look at the people who run the PPA and how they describe it
<AlanBell> there is a bit down the bottom of that link about software sources and trust/quality
<MartijnVdS> woo
<popey> \o/
<popey> *\o/* even
<livingdaylight> thanks AlanBell
<popey> more pretty people
<MartijnVdS> orangeness!
<mattt> MartijnVdS: i shed a tear for you, as your team walked past
<MartijnVdS> \o/
<MartijnVdS> oh man
<popey> \o/ ELO
<popey> BPM increased a bit now.. SPEED UP GUYS! :D
<MartijnVdS> "WE'RE BEHIND SCHEDULE"
<MartijnVdS> you can sometimes see the guy at the bottom of the screen :)
<Azelphur> I wonder if this site is legit or not, this is a damned good monitor for the price http://www.creativepeter.com/achieva-shimian-qh270-ipsb-2560-x-1440-27-monitor-black.html?currency=GBP
<MartijnVdS> Why did they skip La-la land?
<AlanBell> I like Senegal
<livingdaylight> didn't know one could enter as an independent. Imagine EVERYONE did that?! :o that'd be cool
<AlanBell> only a few do that
<MartijnVdS> the biggest spaniard ever
<AlanBell> wow, he is a big lad
<livingdaylight> also basketball player?
<MartijnVdS> yeah
<MartijnVdS> pink wig..
<AlanBell> pink hair, nice
<AlanBell> sri lanka, I get lots of emails from there requesting free Ubuntu CDs
<MartijnVdS> lots of Surinamese people
<livingdaylight> going to see usa vs france on sunday. don't know that france are known for basketball.. looking forward to it
<christel> dont mock pink hair..
<AlanBell> christel: we were admiring it
<christel> :p
<livingdaylight> I like how they wave up to the dictoators in the gallery seats
<christel> you'd all look dashing in pink i'm sure!
<MartijnVdS> "At least we're not being killed by our government" - Syrians
<MartijnVdS> nice suit colours
<AlanBell> USA soon
<MartijnVdS> nice moustaches
<livingdaylight> those little flags on cocktail sticks are hilarious. Do they go straight into the bin after?
<AlanBell> they look like flight attendants
<livingdaylight> usa looks aweful ... military look with the hats
<MartijnVdS> livingdaylight: this is an invasion
<MartijnVdS> livingdaylight: from tomorrow on, you need to speak proper American
<livingdaylight> spotted samuel jackson!
<livingdaylight> MartijnVdS, yeeehaaahh!
<livingdaylight> MartijnVdS, how am I doing?
<MartijnVdS> improving
<livingdaylight> is torture an olympic sport?
<AlanBell> only the 200m waterboarding competition
<Azelphur> IRC should be an olympic sport
<livingdaylight> lol
<Azelphur> I could win the gold
<AlanBell> team GB \o/
<AlanBell> one hand, no holster
<AlanBell> go Chris Hoy
<livingdaylight> gold panels
<MartijnVdS> bored queen
<AlanBell> checking her nails!
<MartijnVdS> for when she needs to claw out someone's eyes?
<livingdaylight> "queen looks on proudly, I'm sure" no, she didn't, lol
<livingdaylight> lol
<ali1234> is slashdot broken?
<jacobw> yes
<ali1234> i get 404 on the front page
<AlanBell> wfm
<jacobw> oh you mean today? or in general :P
<jacobw> i can load it
<MartijnVdS> Galvanize again?
<MartijnVdS> Their tape ran out and is back at the beginning
<MartijnVdS> it's no 'Barcelona'..
<AlanBell> hmm, not sure about the band selection for this bit
<jacobw> me neither
<livingdaylight>   pretty shit choice of music
<jacobw> it's not even a good performance
<MartijnVdS> they need to wake up the queen
<popey> i like it :)
<AlanBell> woah, sweet
<Seeker`> I WANT MY OWN BIRDMAN ARMY
<AlanBell> hahah
<popey> boris bikes? :)
<ali1234> i have no idea what's going on but it sounds crazy
<AlanBell> no, because they are sponsored by Barclays
<MartijnVdS> my brother said they brought Dutch "OV-fietsen" to London
<jacobw> haha
<MartijnVdS> yellow/blue public transport bikes
<alexcockell> Ouch - they're flat.
<livingdaylight> beckham must have arrived on his speedboat by now?
<MartijnVdS> http://www.ov-fiets.nl/
<MartijnVdS> livingdaylight: yeah but he's doing his hair
<JanC> hey, I think one day, doves were an olympic discipline...  ;-)
<AlanBell> livingdaylight: think he got lost
<AlanBell> E.T. \o/
<Seeker`> ITS ET
<popey> he was held up outside by some silly cyclists
<livingdaylight> rofmao
<popey> http://occupylondon.org.uk/events/july-critical-mass-london-2012-olympic-special
<MartijnVdS> popey: http://www.ov-fiets.nl/
<popey> sweet
<MartijnVdS> stutter
<MartijnVdS> https://twitter.com/ProfBrianCox/status/228990170089795585
<AlanBell> https://twitter.com/Queen_UK/status/228987806393978881
<MartijnVdS> :)
<livingdaylight> "Give one some sodding warning when the camera is coming, for Christ's sake. " lol
<livingdaylight> jack Rogue?
<MartijnVdS> Rogge
<livingdaylight> nah, rogue lol
<AlanBell> Jacques Rogge
<Seeker`> http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/376968_381440871922332_292658134_n.jpg
<MartijnVdS> Seeker`: EXTERMINATE
<livingdaylight> mr rogue speaks a bit like the pope
<JanC> hey, he says that for the first time all teams have women included
<JanC> that's nice!
<MartijnVdS> even the one-member team?
<JanC> maybe (I didn't double-check)
<AlanBell> MartijnVdS: I think it was carefully phrased, not sure it meant that every country at this games has a mixed team
<Seeker`> something like every country has had a female competitor
<AlanBell> good news though, whatever the precise phrase was
<livingdaylight> the saudi woman were practically in burka, but nonetheless progress is progress
<livingdaylight> why can the queen never say anything without reading it?
<AlanBell> good job she had a script to read from
<Seeker`> AlanBell: yeah, that could have gone horribly wrong!
<JanC> most people would have long retired before reaching her age  ;)
<Seeker`> she might have declared war on the moon without it :P
<AlanBell> yay shami
<AlanBell> wow
<livingdaylight> that man is not an advert for boxing
<Seeker`> he didn't look happy
<JanC> MA doesn't look very healthy...  :-/
<livingdaylight> they got to stop wheeling him out, jeez
<AlanBell> yeah, he is in a sad state
<MartijnVdS> years of special training.. to carry a flag up a slope
<livingdaylight> what is this? Hamburger Hill?
<MartijnVdS> livingdaylight: olympic anthem
<MartijnVdS> or something
<AlanBell> Glastonbury tor apparently
<AlanBell> turn on the big fan thing!
<MartijnVdS> Proms? Barenboim was there..
<AlanBell> Beckham time
<Seeker`> that took him a while
<Seeker`> he's gained people
<MartijnVdS> Seeker`: london is big!
<livingdaylight> picked up hitch hikers along the way
<Seeker`> do you think he went on an epic adventure whie we were watching the restof the ceremony
<MartijnVdS> Seeker`: On blu-ray next month
<livingdaylight> are judges and referees not allowed to take dope either? aww...
<MartijnVdS> the men speak better English than the woman
<MartijnVdS> pronunciation-wise
<livingdaylight> olympism?
<MartijnVdS> livingdaylight: it's a disease. Dope is the cure
<popey> haha, bloke scooting off on a segway
<ali1234> is it over yet?
<popey> nearly
<popey> just about to light
<MartijnVdS> and now they're cooking with gas?
<livingdaylight> I like how they did that. A bunch of kids lighting together; makes a chanage from the usual one oldie fogey lighting it
<livingdaylight> NIZZE]
<AlanBell> that is nice!
<Seeker`> wow
<popey> pretty
<livingdaylight> can hear and see sky light up from window, but can't see actual fireworks
<MartijnVdS> London's burning?
<AlanBell> macca
<MartijnVdS> audio fial
<Seeker`> has the lipsync track broken?
<AlanBell> I think the audience started singing it
<Seeker`> ah
<AlanBell> was a bit confusing
<MartijnVdS> now turn their mics off
<MartijnVdS> just like a few weeks ago
<AlanBell> that cauldron is the bestest ever
<popey> how soon before you can buy your own olympic cauldron from ebay
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: nah, Amsterdam has the best one (the first is always the best)
<SuperEngineer> it was going so well... perhaps it's going to be a roast Macca barbecue flame!
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: Mecca barbecue? But it's ramadan!
<Myrtti> I'm proper disappointed now.
<Myrtti> (back in Cambridge, we'll watch the opening ceremony off the iPlayer tomorrow)
<Myrtti> rather Cambridgeshire
<Seeker`> :(
 * AlanBell hugs Myrtti 
<SuperEngineer> mercy killings are apparently ok if the meat is consumed for the benefit of all
<Myrtti> oh well...
<AlanBell> Myrtti: you are welcome to come round some other time
<JanC> okay, time to leave the ceremony, I guess...   ;)
<ali1234> is it over yet?
<Myrtti> AlanBell: fortunately we didn't get any huge amounts of mushrooms and courgettes beforehand :-/
<AlanBell> ali1234: it is now
<ali1234> \o/
<directhex> wat
#ubuntu-uk 2012-07-28
<Azelphur> hmm, I used powertop to fix a bunch of bad things to save power
<Azelphur> and then when I reboot, it just goes back to being unfixed
<Azelphur> :(
<ali1234> oh no here we go
<ali1234> website project has entered the "chosing a logo" phase
<Azelphur> hehe
<ali1234> "I find it much harder to read the new simple one. Irrespective of its size I can't make out at a quick glance what it says.Â "
<ali1234> i bet if i showed you both logos you wouldn't even notice the difference
<ali1234> the best part is the logo is a circle and the space it goes in on the website is rectangular
<ali1234> is there anything like etherpad for svg documents?
<AlanBell> ali1234: doctormo was working on something like that
<christel> good morning -uk!
<AlanBell> morning
<nja> Hello
<nja> Been programming since 7
<christel> :)
<christel> i have been sat in my garden having a quiet cup of coffee since 7! but i decided it was COLD and probably a wise idea to go inside and locate some clothes :)
<nja> O_o
<christel> :o
<nja> I'm adding GameStates :D
<nja> Finally I can have a menu screen
<nja> For debug and anti-annoyance purposes, once it is done, it goes streight to GameplayState on run.
<christel> :D
<christel> AlanBell: you're up early! have you got the bbq on? :P
<nja> I'm so focused, Spotift just started playing Olly Murs, and I don't car!
<nja> e
<christel> hahaha
<nja> OK, can't take much more.
<nja> Why are the charts so BAD!
<nja> Time to queue Orcherstral remixes
<christel> i am listening to vitamin string quartet, always a good start to the day
<christel> :)
<nja> All the other "Employees" are on holiday so I'm working solo.  again...
<christel> aww
<nja> Well, they have to put up with the wrath of my placeholder graphics, so it sorta evens out.  sorta.
<nja> MLP: FIM Orchestral Remix :D
<christel> hahaha
 * christel brohoofs
 * nja approves
<MartijnVdS> apprhooves?
<christel> haha
<nja> :P
<christel> i must go wake up my men and get them dressed and ready for rugby training :)
<nja> Does no one log off on this?
<nja> There are 3 of us talking and 106 online.
<nja> ?
<nja> Wow spotify works with me media keyboard
<nja> More productive programming time
<diplo> Morning all
<nja> moring diplo mat
<daubers> Morning
 * MartijnVdS watches the "Krautrock" documentary that was on BBC Four last night during the Olympic things
<MartijnVdS> http://i.imgur.com/bPAh7.png
<diplo> heh MartijnVdS
<diplo> :P
<MartijnVdS> http://i.imgur.com/k42fz.jpg
<MartijnVdS> http://i.imgur.com/DWhYa.png
<diplo> Can someone give me some sleep, I am kerknackered
 * MartijnVdS hits diplo in the head with a rubber mallet, comedy-style
<diplo> Stupid me should have come earlier
<nja> @MartijnVdS So true
<MartijnVdS> nja: which one? :)
<nja> @MartijnVdS All of them :P
<diplo> I have one big failing, if i wake up I can't go back off to sleep :/
<MartijnVdS> diplo: so.. go to sleep earlier :)
<nja> @diplo You get used to it exentually
<MartijnVdS> diplo: I only had 6 hours of sleep because some people decided to run some "Olympic Opening Ceremony" until 2am
<diplo> I've had my get used to it stage.. bit old now
<MartijnVdS> and some insect was buzzing in my ear at 8am
<diplo> MartijnVdS: that's what woke me at 7ish a fly :/
<nja> OK, I'm on Spotify radio, it just started playing White noise
<MartijnVdS> that's dubstep
<nja> @MartijnVds ...
<MartijnVdS> nja: ?
<AlanBell> blue sky and lots of sun \o/
<MartijnVdS> Grey skies and cool wind
 * diplo hopes traffic is ok for the trip
<Dave2> AlanBell, what would be a sensible/non-stupid time for me to try to arrive for?
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<popey> morning all
<brobostigon> morning popey
<nja> Hi
<brobostigon> hi nja
<nja> @bribistugon hi
<nja> @brobostigon ^
<brobostigon> no need for the ', i get highlighted anyway without.
<brobostigon> @*
<nja> @brobostigon I know
<nja> You have no idea how many times I get told that.
<brobostigon> it just seems strange.
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<brobostigon> morning bigcalm :)
<bigcalm> o/
<bigcalm> What's happening today?
<AlanBell> bbq!!!!
<bigcalm> Yay
<bigcalm> Send me a sausage?
<popey> AlanBell, what time you lighting it?
<popey> pondering whether to give the kids lunch and then come over later for bbq tea stuff
<popey> i spy AlanBell hanging out
<AlanBell> popey: will light it when people are hungry
<popey> ok
<bigcalm> popey: I'm sure there's a limit to how long you should keep staring before an uncomfortable tension rises
<AlanBell> the hangout is cool, working through some big speakers
<popey> it times out if you dont wiggle the mouse or type tho
<bigcalm> popey: speaking of hanging out, when do you want to discuss things? I'm off out in a couple of hours I think
 * Dave2 heads off
<Dave2> Should be there in a couple of hours
<Dave2> (Trains to Farnham are awesome.)
<diplo> AlanBell: Just heading off myself, is their a Tescos or something close by yours? not got a cool box and worried about leaving meat in hot car
<bigcalm> Wish I were on my way to Farnham
<christel> the boy wonder is making skewers
<christel> it is rather cute, he attempted to make pork and strawberry ones
<bigcalm> christel: sounds like he's weponising the meat
<christel> i wasn't entirely convinced mind
<bigcalm> Aww
<christel> diplo: there is a tesco extra/metro thingie up the road from alan, and a sainsburys in town and one on the bypass (water lane)
<christel> also a waitrose in town proper
<christel> (i've no idea where you're coming from mind so i dont know which might be Best for you)
<diplo> Easy to find for me
<diplo> near bath :)
<christel> aah
<diplo> popey: Found the V+ box etc btw so it will be coming along with ,e
<diplo> me*
<popey> yay, thanks!
<christel> ok, then you probably will come down the route we take when we've been to see the inlaws in bristol, so as you come down to the Magical Roundabouts you'll see a sign for sainsburys waterlane, that might be the easiest one :)
<popey> christel, you going?
<christel> popey: aye!
<diplo> kk thanks christel
<popey> i have the lug.org.uk server here
<popey> need to dd zeroes on it
<christel> :)
<AlanBell> diplo: there are shops in Farnham
<popey> AlanBell, do you have a screen i can plug the lug.org.uk box into so i can dban / dd zeroes on it?
<christel> ok! i must go investigate these magical skewers of davids!
<AlanBell> popey: sure
<popey> cool, ta
<diplo> Right, shutting down and leaving once fueled up.. Cya soon!
<popey> o/
<bigcalm> What's that a quote from?
<AlanBell> anyone want to bring some stickers or something for name badges?
<jacobw> 'hi, my name is "bigcalm"'
<bigcalm> jacobw: you should do that, not many people know me :)
<Laney> nah, go for sabdfl instead
<brobostigon> lol
<Laney> . o O ( or rms )
<brobostigon> or DC.
<brobostigon> and then get lynched.
<AlanBell> christel: I am filling up the paddling pool
<AlanBell> might want to bring some spare clothes for the little chap
<bigcalm> (and yourself)
<bigcalm> I'd be there witha  water pistol
<jacobw> hehe
<jacobw> i'd be horrified if i was mistaken for rms
<bigcalm> popey: what was your quit message a quote from?
<popey> :)
<popey> TMWRANJ
<bigcalm> Blimey
<bigcalm> Blast from the past
<popey> will cooke (ubuntu tv) has "now go do your hobbies!" as his
<popey> which inspired me
<AlanBell> popey: paddling pool is being filled up
<Myrtti> AlanBell: marking tape
<Myrtti> masking even
<Myrtti> we're watching the opening ceremony off the iplayer and I want to shoot the commenter and we're not even to the Queens enterance on the show
<popey> heh
<popey> my kids are in the pool already!
<AlanBell> great
<jacobw> i haven't seen the queens entrance
<popey> wakka wakka
<bigcalm> I haven't seen any of the thing from last night
<bigcalm> But I read 4+ hours of tweets when I went to bed
<bigcalm> Sounds like the weirdest thing
<Myrtti> well we tried very hard to watch it live on the telly but then things (but not we) went south
<bigcalm> Myrtti: :(
<bigcalm> All technology sucks when it goes kaput
<jacobw> zdf.de live worked very well for me
<jacobw> the german voiceover was helpful :)
<MartijnVdS> BBC One HD was nice on freesat :)
<christel> AlanBell: \o/
<bigcalm> Time to go out for the day and get some MEAT!
<bigcalm> Have a fun BBQ you crazy kids :)
<Flashtek> Anyone in here familiar with netboot installs ?
<jacobw> i'm trying cinnamon
<jacobw> omgwhyhaven'tdonethisbefore
<MartijnVdS> because you're not American, and don't need to put it on ALL the things?
<jacobw> :)
<jacobw> er, i meant cinnamon.linuxmint.com ;)
<jacobw> Flashtek: are you using the netinstall iso?
<Flashtek> jacobw: trying to get the bloody thing to boot from network at the mo
<Flashtek> downloaded the netinstall.tar.gz, unpacked, setup dnsmasq and tftp server...
<Flashtek> ensured it's all fired up
<Flashtek> and it doesn't boot.
<Flashtek> and now my touch pad decided to stop working... ffs...
<Flashtek> ha... it's back again now
<Flashtek> jump to terminal and back
<Flashtek> jacobw: do i need to do anything "special" ?
 * popey packs up to head over to AlanBells 
<SuperEngineer> Wishing you all a great time at the UUK BBQ - wish I was there :()  [nom nom]
<Pendulum> SuperEngineer: I think they're doing a google+ hangout
<SuperEngineer> oooo -do you know what to search for - or is itt obvious
 * SuperEngineer hunts g=
<SuperEngineer> g+
<SuperEngineer> that was *too* easy... fired up g+ & latest update points straight there... ;)
<AlanBell> https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/c5950ebd288a5d757bf7a0f82691c5f13af2265a?authuser=0&hl=en# want to join the BBQ?
<Monotoko> heh: http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/564575_482307075115263_75517501_n.jpg
<Myrtti> Monotoko: https://plus.google.com/107063922467380085691/posts/Nf8pdHpCveM
<Monotoko> Myrtti, point taken :P
<SuperEngineer> Useful short review of the latest alpha from The H Open: http://tinyurl.com/Quantal-alpha3
<SuperEngineer> damn netbook can't cope with google hangouts - runs out of memeory... tempted to swear here
<SuperEngineer> to whoever said "hello" when I joined BBQ hangout on G+ ... hello!  Sorry - G+ hangout eventuslly hung with "out of memory" :(
<SuperEngineer> damn netbook!
<SuperEngineer> damn desktop pooter not having a webcam!
<SuperEngineer> damn!
<MartijnVdS> :|
<SuperEngineer> [yeah, I was the one with name B#### B####
<SuperEngineer> However -i don't give up easily - time for one more attempt
<jussi> bbq hang ot was fun :D
<jussi> Elodi was really awake and happy, which helped :D
<SuperEngineer> jussi: thanks - that makes me feel sooo much better... not!!!!
<SuperEngineer> weeeee - made it!
<Pendulum> SuperEngineer: I'm the other hangout person who isn't actually at the BBQ
<SuperEngineer> Hi Pendulum
<SuperEngineer> nice to see another "ghost"
<Pendulum> :)
<SuperEngineer> ooo - a black pussycat just crossed my virtual path
<ali1234> is it a good idea to use SQL enum?
<ali1234> are they widely supported? any possible problems?
<nja> Hi
<SuperEngineer> hmmm - v. impolite [perhaps they're too drunk]. I ask if mike if working, BBQ idiot replies "too noisy" and kills me!
<SuperEngineer> VERY imploite & not in accordance with Code of Conduct
<ali1234> wat
<SuperEngineer> You know who I'm talking too.. I'm just too polite to mention name here!
<Pendulum> SuperEngineer: we weren't hearing you at all
<SuperEngineer> unlike drunk BBQ
<Pendulum> and no video
 * SuperEngineer goesback to watching grand prix
 * penguin42 just returned from the Manchester Mini-maker faire - nice to see some people I hadn't seen for a while, and a few faces I'd not seen in the flesh
<AlanBell> SuperEngineer: sorry, it was just loads of banging noises
<AlanBell> and no picture
<SuperEngineer> AlanBell: that's why I was asking if anyone had me on voice [or vid] b4 cutoff - I'll let you off - this time ;)
<AlanBell> :)
<AlanBell> do you have a microphone that isn't on your keyboard?
<SuperEngineer> it was netbook with all built in - desktop has no webcam [RIP]
<AlanBell> awww
<AlanBell> that is so sad
<AlanBell> :(
<AlanBell> (says christel)
<AlanBell> ish
<AlanBell> or alan.. i dunno
<AlanBell> :D
<AlanBell> czajkowski is a rubbish slave :(
<nja> @AlanBell Hi!
<bigcalm> Everybody having fun at the BBQ?
<Pendulum> bigcalm: come join the hangout!
<AlanBell> yesss#
<nja> CAn I have the link?
<AlanBell> no
<Pendulum> https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/c5950ebd288a5d757bf7a0f82691c5f13af2265a?authuser=0&hl=en#
<AlanBell> lol,
<nja> There's a hangout :D
<nja> :D
<bigcalm> Pendulum: working :(
<Pendulum> bigcalm: so put it in the background
<ali1234> penguin42: did you see a guy with a robot arm and 3d printer?
<ali1234> (at the maker fair)
<SuperEngineer> Lesson from attempt at G+ BBQ hangout using netbook...
<penguin42> ali1234: Erm well there are a few 3d printers
<SuperEngineer> G+ hangouts use enough memory to kill/swamp netbook usage, Pigin [& Empathy] don't memory]
<penguin42> ali1234: I don't specificalyl remember a robot arm - there were various robots
<SuperEngineer> ...don't swamp memory
<SuperEngineer> ...are you listening Mr. Google???
<nja> I'm in
<nja> I'm just not going to talk, I'm already in another call.
<ali1234> penguin42: this one is life size https://plus.google.com/113908610041457856109/posts/Gcf46MP1ci9
<penguin42> ali1234: Hmm no, didn't notice that one to be honest
<ali1234> well, i dunno if he was even there... but he does go to these things from time to time :)
<diplo> AlanBell: thanks again for the BBQ, was nice to meet you all.
<diplo> Evening all
<Pendulum> hiya diplo
<popey> diplo, yeah, was lovely to meet you
<diplo> Exhausted now :) should have gone home earlier last night :D
<diplo> Squash and sit down and watch qualifying i think now
<ali1234> can i say "created DATETIME DEFAULT Now() NOT NULL,"
<ali1234> or will that just make the default whenever the table was created?
<ali1234> no, i can't
<ali1234> though it's a commonly requested feature apparently :)
<ali1234> ok i'm super confused now :(
<ali1234> http://pastebin.com/WhEbKpu4
<czajkowski> Aloha
<popey> pip pip
<popey> laptop okay?
<czajkowski> narp
<czajkowski> wouldnt clone to the size of the other hard drive
<czajkowski> tis ok
<czajkowski> am probably gonna buy a desktop for main work
<czajkowski> though jon wants me to take mac mini and use that
 * MartijnVdS watches BBC Olympics 16
<MartijnVdS> waiting for audience shots :)
<popey> czajkowski, it can be done :(
<czajkowski> popey: thank yuo for the help
<czajkowski> and it was fun :)
<popey> np
<czajkowski> kids tired ?
<popey> yeah, straight to bed
<czajkowski> heh
<czajkowski> diplo: enjoy the day ?
<czajkowski> nice to put the face to the nick
<Pendulum> czajkowski: I'm glad you had better weather than we're now getting (has been raining for the last 3 hours)
<diplo> hi czajkowski, yeah enjoyed myself thank you and was nice to meet you all.
<diplo> brb
<ali1234> was someone complaining about high i/o latency with USB the other day?
<ali1234> oimon?
<popey> i think so
<ali1234> oimon: what you can do about it is help me out on this bug: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/770258
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 770258 in linux (Ubuntu) "Extremely high latency when writing to USB drives." [Undecided,Incomplete]
<bigcalm> Yoohoo
<bigcalm> I have that effect on people
<brobostigon> good night everyone, sleep well.
<christel> norway > the uk in the olympics
<christel> that is all
<christel> \o/
<Pendulum> haha
<christel> :D
 * christel snogs Pendulum 
<Pendulum> \o/
<Pendulum> I didn't know that was allowed in here ;-)
<christel> \o/
<christel> it probably isnt! ;)
<Pendulum> not that anyone seems to care at the moment :P
 * dwatkins raises an eyebrow and grins
<dwatkins> no-one saw you, I'm sure it's fine...
<christel> i am on top of a roof
<christel> surrounded by people on drugs
<christel> it is quite scary
<Pendulum> christel: just as long as no one thinks you're a radiator
<christel> lol
<christel> you're my favourite (hottest) radiator
<christel> i told alan the radiator story
<Pendulum> Did you tell him how badly we broke Pascal?
<christel> yes :D
 * christel giggles
<Pendulum> I'll warm you up anytime :P
<christel> he no longer thinks of me as sweet and innocent i am sure
<christel> yay :D
<Pendulum> haha
<christel> AlanBell: i have decided that your non-mint mint was lemon balm
<Pendulum> there was non-mint mint?
<christel> yes!
<christel> in the pimms!
<Pendulum> could it have been lemon mint? (which is different from lemon balm)
<christel> oo maybe
<Pendulum> too many types of mint
<christel> mmm
<Dave2> it was lemon balm
<Dave2> I'm pretty sure
<Dave2> Because I knew what it was, I just couldn't remember its name
<Dave2> <Pendulum> Did you tell him how badly we broke Pascal? # compiled as FORTRAN, obviously.
<AlanBell> it is edible apparently so that is OK
<Myrtti> we still haven't heard from the mechanic what the verdict about the car is :-(
<christel> Myrtti: :(
<Pendulum> Myrtti: oh dear :(
<christel> Myrtti: you missed out on my amazing quails egg skewers!
<christel> they were CUTE
<Dave2> you forgot the bacon
<christel> (because they were like tiny eg..wait.. they normally are.. nevermind)
<christel> mmm bacon \o/
<AlanBell> they were lovely!
<Dave2> tiny :(
<Pendulum> christel: did you take a pic? I didn't get to see them either :(
<Myrtti> christel: you missed out on my marinated courgettes and mushrooms filled with cream cheese, wrapped in bacon
<Dave2> I sense a theme here
<Dave2> Of bacon.
<Dave2> I would be having bacon tomorrow morning, but I think I've had enough meat for now
<christel> oh god yes, lets reschedule the bbq for tomorrow \o/
 * AlanBell failed to take a picture of the awesome food /o\
<christel> Pendulum: oh no :(
<christel> i made way too much random food :x
<Myrtti> AlanBell: I even packed a camera just for that
<Dave2> They looked like quail's eggs
<Dave2> wrapped in bacon
<christel> hehe
<AlanBell> Myrtti: so sorry you couldn't make it
<christel> yeah, would have been fab to see you!
<Myrtti> as much as I love you, I'm more sorry about the possible 1000+ mechanics bill
<christel> mmthat sucks a bit
<Myrtti> s/1000+/Â£1000+/
<Myrtti> some predictions have been at 1500
<Myrtti> shall see what happens
<Dave2> ow
<christel> do you know what broke?
<penguin42> the one time I feel less sorry about the cost of train fares is when I hear peoples car bill stories
<christel> hehe
<Myrtti> no not yet, the guys from the garage came in to pick it up, added water in and it leaked immediately, they said they have to fix that first to see if it's just some pipe or something that's broke, after that if it doesn't fix the problem, basically (apparently) the whole car needs to be taken apart into atoms to see if (both) headgaskets are gone
<christel> 13
<christel> that sounds a bit sucky/potentially rubbish :(
<mattt> Myrtti: i blew a headgasket while driving up north a few years ago
<mattt> i just left the car there and had a guy from the AA help me get it destroyed
<christel> did diplo make it home?
<Myrtti> mattt: torched it?
<Myrtti> :-P
<Myrtti> no, don't tell
<penguin42> let it get nicked?
<Pendulum> christel: he's been back on IRC so I assume so
<Pendulum> Myrtti: ouch (re: car)
<mattt> Myrtti: nah, the AA man literally took the car to the scrap for me and sent me a cheque a week later :)
#ubuntu-uk 2012-07-29
<christel> GOOD MORNING
<christel> :D
<dwatkins> mornin' :)
<christel> \o/
<christel> how are you this fine morning dwatkins ?
<dwatkins> I'm very good thanks, christel - just making my way through the latest on lifehacker, how about your good self?
<christel> i am very well! the boy wonder decided to let me have a lie-in, always a bonus! :D
<dwatkins> Sundays are for lions, yes.
<nja> Hello
<dwatkins> hi nja
<nja> Anyone here playing around with the Ubuntu Quantal Alpha 3?
<christel> <3 lions \o/
 * nja bump ^
<dwatkins> nja: there are lots of people both in this channel and #ubuntu+1, so I imagine so (although they may be sleeping) - not tried it myself, though.
<nja> I just need someone to confirm this bug for me
<nja> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1030452
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 1030452 in linux (Ubuntu) "Mouse goes invisible upon activating any element." [Undecided,New]
<nja> Yes
<nja> Also did I report it correctly?
<dwatkins> Looks like you have included plenty of data, yeah - does your report mention the version of X11 and the desktop manager in use, nja?
<nja> @dwatkins I used apport so I assume so
<nja> It may have something to do with not enabling 3D accelleration, I will try with that on
<nja> Nope, no difference
<nja> I think I may have found another install bug, but I think I've probably just screwed up my VHD
<SuperEngineer> Now that's just inconsiderate - a power cut on a Sunday morning :(
<dwatkins> That reminds me, I need a UPS.
<MartijnVdS> \o/ ups
<MartijnVdS> (pronounced "oops" ;))
<SuperEngineer> dwatkins: odd - that's exactly what went through my mind
<christel> MartijnVdS, SuperEngineer \o/
<christel> GOOD MORNING
<MartijnVdS> \o christel
<christel> how are you wonderful people? :D
<MartijnVdS> tired from running ;)
<SuperEngineer> christel: tired from running around resetting clocks after power cut ;)
<christel> haha i bet! i hate powercuts!
<dwatkins> It should be fairly easy to put a battery backup into a 12v clock - alternatively, there's always this sort of thing: http://www.galsys.co.uk/network-clocks-displays/radio-controlled-analogue-clock.html
<nja> :D my bug got confimed
<MartijnVdS> nja: at least it's not a figment of your imagination then 8-)
<nja> @MartijnVdS yes always good to know I'm not insane
<SuperEngineer> nja: I find it reassuring to always know I *am* insane ;)
<nja> I think I've spotted a new bug too
<nja> I just need to reformat to send it.
<brobostigon> good morning eveyrone.
<nja> good morning brobostigon
<parnisa> https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/484112_10151288315461959_661083995_n.jpg
<brobostigon> good morning nja
<nja> @parnisa Why do we hate the Olympics so much. ;)
<parnisa> Its the biggest losers event the greek ever have invented.
<parnisa> Thousands participate, only very few become immortal.
<parnisa> The rest will be forgotten and have to spend the rest of their eternity thinking of those very seconds that seperated them from eternal stardom.
<parnisa> Besides, any Olympics without carriage racing, the main-event of the original games, isnt real Olympics.
<parnisa> Today that would probably be considered animal cruelty, but abusing humans is perfectly fine.
<popey> morning
<christel> morning lovely
<brobostigon> morning popey and christel
<christel> brobostigon \o/
 * christel morning huggles
 * brobostigon huggles christel back.
<parnisa> theres a lot of complains in the media about lack of information from olympic organizers
<SuperEngineer> anybody here got weather-indicator installed?
<Laney> yes and it's stopped being able to update
<MartijnVdS> parnisa: lack of information?
<popey> i uninstalled the weather indicator because it was very crashy
<MartijnVdS> I just ask my (Jelly Bean) phone now
<jacobw> morning
<MartijnVdS> \o/ Google Now
<brobostigon> does anyone have android 4.1 here, and can tell me where to find the sync and background data settings please.?
<popey> which sync settings?
<popey> the accounts you're syncing?
<brobostigon> yes.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: they're in the main settings page
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: let me get my phoen
<Laney> http://www.eoshd.com/content/8584/is-this-bone-chilling-timelapse-shot-in-space-onboard-iss-the-best-ever
<Laney> A++ would watch again
 * popey looks for his passport
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: one question, with sync turned off, can apps still get data, like the background data in 2.3 ?
<jacobw> to whom does one apply to for a visa for the moon?
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: you can disable background data per app
<jacobw> ah, the cheese god, obviously :)
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: you can also turn sync on/off per service
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: so i can do that, within the apps menu?
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: No, the main "Settings" interface
<MartijnVdS> then scroll down to the "Accounts" bit
<MartijnVdS> then inside those
<MartijnVdS> (I have "Google" and "Twitter" on there)
 * jacobw is learning node.js today
<MartijnVdS> server-side js, poor computer
<jacobw> hopefully i'll have a usable pastebin by the end of the day
<MartijnVdS> everyone's first web project
<jacobw> not blocking the single threaded http server is interesting
<MartijnVdS> That's just the result of using event-based model
<MartijnVdS> +an
<MartijnVdS> POE, Twisted, also do this :)
<jacobw> i've done some stuff with twisted as well
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: yes, ok, i see google dropbox etc in that list, i have various things like calendar etc set to sync when sync is enabled. however, how do i control what happens, when sync is disabled, i cant see it.
<SuperEngineer> Laney: thanks - i thought that might be the case [just reinstalled, no different]
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: when sync is disabled, it doesn't sync in the background
<MartijnVdS> only when you open the app
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: ah, i see. ok, thank you.
<MartijnVdS> you can disable data per app in the "Data usage" screen
<MartijnVdS> (third(?) pref from the top)
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: ok, :)
<Laney> SuperEngineer: bug 1030087
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 1030087 in indicator-weather (Ubuntu) "Weather Indicator can't refresh" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1030087
<MartijnVdS> I disabled background data for spotify.. it was eating data even when I told it to only use wifi
<SuperEngineer> Laney: I've a mind to go in and confirm it
<Laney> already is confirmed
<SuperEngineer> cool - saves me
<Laney> looks like that site earthtools is awol
<Laney> not that i've checked the source
<SuperEngineer> ;)
<nja> Reported another bug: https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/484112_10151288315461959_661083995_n.jpg
<nja> darn
<nja> wrong thig
<nja> please don't look at that
<Laney> ok
<nja> OK, not so bad, though it was something else
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: thinking about it, that is good design.
<nja> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/1030472
<nja> That's it
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 1030472 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Installer opens with different icon to dock launcher icon." [Undecided,New]
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: I heard they're creating new APIs for "metered wifi" as well (wifi where you pay per MB)
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: Not all wifi is free anymore :(
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: interesting idea.
<nja> @lubontu3 do you really have to post that, I made the thread and I know what it says.
<nja> @lubotu3 ^
<Laney> it's a bot.
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: it is a bot.
<nja> Wow
<brobostigon> sorry.
 * popey reassigns bug 1030472
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 1030472 in bamf (Ubuntu) "Installer opens with different icon to dock launcher icon." [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1030472
<Laney> and adds an upstream task? ^o)
 * popey will try and confirm it
<popey> once he has eaten his poached eggs on toast brekkie
<Laney> what is porridge made with water and salt like? as grim as it sounds?
<popey> i suspect so
<Laney> I feel a strange temptation
<popey> i am a savoury rather than sweet person, but savoury porridge just sounds/looks unappealing
<popey> hmm, thats hard to test in a vm
<jacobw> i think it's just scottish porridge
<Laney> does that mean it's nice?
<jacobw> i'm not sure
<Laney> seems like we've decided tomorrow morning's breakfast
<Laney> yum yum
<alexcockell> Porridge with water and salt - quite common really.. how most of the quick-cook and instant ones work
<alexcockell> SToats Berryfeast is a good line..
<Laney> sounds like it has berries in it
<Laney> VERBOTEN.
<jacobw> why verboten?
<Laney> then it's not oats + water + salt
<alexcockell> Go for their basic one then...
<Laney> I think I can manage to whip it up on my own
<Laney> really. I was just hoping somebody would tell me that they've had it and it's not that bad.
<Myrtti> all "grain+liquid cooked slowly to form a gloopy consistency" is called porridge in Finland... I keep confusing D by wanting to eat "rice porridge"
<Myrtti> and in Finland rice or barley porridge can be a valid meal of it's own
<alexcockell> The instant porridge to steer WELL clear of is Ready Brek.
<alexcockell> According to HCAs I know who;ve had to make it - it's bloody terrible to make up.
<popey> my kids used to love ready brek
<popey> especially with a dollop of jam in
<jacobw> HCAs?
<SuperEngineer> popey: +1 to ready brek every time [best "keep your adult self a child" medicine there is]
<SuperEngineer> jacobw: HCA = HelpfulAdultCreep
<SuperEngineer> ;)
<jacobw> that doesn't make sense
<SuperEngineer> it does to me
 * jacobw gnaws on SuperEngineer untils he's dead
<SuperEngineer> keep gnawing buddy - only krytonite harms me - not you
<jacobw> yarg!
<Seeker`> Laney: its not that bad if you like porridge I guess. But I can only really cope with about 3 spoonfuls of sweet porridge before I get bored of it.
<SuperEngineer> ooo - wet stuff falling from the sky - yellow sky sphere gone :(
<penguin42> yeh
<nja> Not sure what to do about this bug: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1030475
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 1030475 in Ubuntu "Installer keeps saying computer name is already on network" [Undecided,New]
<penguin42> nja: Should be against ubiquity - that's the installer
<nja> @penguin42 Will change
<nja> BEST THING EVER: http://youtu.be/1SbQXvSrVbE
<penguin42> nja: Can you just clarify it, you mean if it autonames it something like njadesktop, then you change it to  foo, but undo the change to njadesktop  then it complains?
<nja> @penguin42 yes
<nja> but I discovered that If I edit another field it shows the true meaning
<penguin42> nja: OK, can you explain that a bit more in a comment - it's not quite obvious
<brobostigon> doctor who and the daleks, ch5, 12:35. :)
<nja> e.g. <TICK>
<SuperEngineer> brobostigon: thanks [SuperEngineer hums durum-durum, durum-durum...]
 * Flashtek burps
<zleap> hey Flashtek
<SuperEngineer> [& no need to panic - these Daleks can't climb stairs or fly]
<Flashtek> hey zleap
<zleap> you going hi
<brobostigon> SuperEngineer: :)
<brobostigon> SuperEngineer: isnt this the one, where he is a human, not a time lord.?
<zleap> Flashtek, chatting on dclug too
<SuperEngineer> brobostigon: can't remember... but {we are both} about to find out ;)
<brobostigon> SuperEngineer: i think it might have been the first two films where he was.
<Flashtek> zleap: so i see...
<brobostigon> SuperEngineer: yep, it is, :)
<zleap> :)
<SuperEngineer> it's also the one with an idiot for a partner [sorry Roy]  ;)
<brobostigon> true.
<zleap> i am trying to download the game from the raspPIthon and can't open the archive zip file
<brobostigon> the doors open the wrong way round. :)
<jacobw> nja: i've noticed that bug as well
<nja> @jacobw :D not insane
<jacobw> i haven't seen it happen with autogenerated hostnames that are unique to the network, but if you use a hostname that existed a few hours ago ubiquity will get an ARP response for that hostname and consider it present
<penguin42> jacobw: I think he's saying if you autogen the hostname, go to a manual name and then back to the autogen one it breaks?
<jacobw> i think i've seen that too
<jacobw> but it doesn't prevent you setting whatever hostname you like :)
<zleap> how do i extract a zip file from the command line ?
<jacobw> unzip
<zleap> thanks
<zleap> hmm
<zleap> I can't get it to unzip the raspPIthon game
<zleap> https://github.com/ryanteck/RasPiThon/tree/master/Raspberroids
<zleap> from here
<czajkowski> aloha
<zleap> hi
<ali1234> wow they checked a zipfile into the git repository? wow
<ali1234> and a Thumbs.db too
<ali1234> windows users lol
<zleap> ok
<zleap> +so why can't i extract it
<ali1234> how did you download it?
<zleap> right clickand download
<zleap> how are we meant to download it
<jacobw> because it's a HTML document
<zleap> grrr
<ali1234> heh... what he said ^
<zleap> why does it have a zip extention
<ali1234> tha's a git repo
<ali1234> because it's a zip file
<zleap> so what do I do
<jacobw> `file RasPiThonFinalDownload.zip`
<ali1234> but the link is not a download link
<zleap> ffs
<zleap> so what do I do
<ali1234> left click on it
<ali1234> then click view raw
<ali1234> then it should download properly
<ali1234> you';re not supposed to check in zipfiles to a git repo like this...
<ali1234> github has a seperate downloads section which is where they should have put the zip
<ali1234> github is not dropbox :)
<zleap> hang on it still isn't working
<popey> clicking that link locked up firefox
<ali1234> it's probably corrupted the file due to mimetypes and/or line ending conversion
<popey> zleap, "isn't working" doesn't scribe whats happening
<ali1234> which link popey?
<popey> <zleap> https://github.com/ryanteck/RasPiThon/tree/master/Raspberroids
<popey> ok, finally now got a response
<ali1234> well, there's no reason for that
<popey> nvm
<ali1234> "view raw" works for me. zipfile opens correctly
<ali1234> be warned, it doesn't have a top level directory, so it will spam whatever directory you unzip in
<ali1234> windows users lol
<zleap> ok i have extracted to a directory on my hdd now what
<ali1234> python main.py?
<zleap> ImportError: No module named player_info
<zleap>   when i do execute in geany
<ali1234> but it's obviously right there
<zleap> but i have a module called that in the list on the side
<zleap> yeah its there
<zleap> i know nothing about python or very little
<ali1234> rm *.pyc
<ali1234> they incuded pyc files, i suspect for the wrong architecture
<zleap> ok
<zleap> well it still wont' run
<zleap> do i need to run make or something first
<zleap> (using geany)
<ali1234> no
<zleap> ok
<ali1234> python mainmenu.py
<popey> well thats unplayable
<ali1234> no it isn't
<zleap> opk that works
<ali1234> it's just very hard
<zleap> mainmenu.py
<ali1234> i like the music
<popey> i think they have assumed the timing of an arm device
<ali1234> but i was expecting a proper asteroids game
<ali1234> pygame doesn't work like that
<popey> ok
<ali1234> what framerate you get?
<zleap> ok it works noiw
<zleap> now
<ali1234> i get about 70fps
<ali1234> it's just about playable
<zleap> well you got 4people aged 12 - 16 doing this,  so i guess we need to give them some credit,  as it was done over 48 hours
<popey> yeah, 70-80fps
<ali1234> i managed to shoot and simultaneously get hit by a raspberroid
<zleap> hmm
<zleap> i would kinda of expect an .py file called game or raspbroids
<zleap> raspberroids.py
<ali1234> yeah or at least main.py to be ... the main one
<nja> Are you making a python game?
<zleap> who me
<ali1234> i made a python game once
<zleap> no just commenting on the fact you need to run mainmenu,py
<ali1234> http://al.robotfuzz.com/~al/md/
<ali1234> it's even harder to figure out how to run it than this
<ali1234> this music is really catchy
<ali1234> "Adding a dude"
<jacobw> i've just been made aware of the 'sad panda' meme
<jacobw> my life is better now :)
<ali1234> do-do doooooooo, do-do dooooooooo
<zleap> yeah the music is good
<ali1234> here's another game i made in python: http://al.robotfuzz.com/~al/random/th.tar
<ali1234> i think that took about 3 hours
<ali1234> i stole the graphics from somewhere though
<nja> cool
<popey> hmm, that bug you filed about usb performance ali1234
<popey> i am dding zeroes to a 250GB disk over USB
<popey> my browser keeps dimming
<ali1234> yeah, that's the one
<popey> ~80% iowait
<ali1234> so, for th, move with arrow keys, collect coins, and if a skeleton attacks you press space
<nja> I want to test more of Ubuntu Alpha, but I think using broken OSes drives me INSANE!!%!"Â£!!!!
<popey> ali1234, whats the bug number again please?
<popey> nja, broken how?
<ali1234> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/770258
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 770258 in linux (Ubuntu) "Extremely high latency when writing to USB drives." [Undecided,Incomplete]
<nja> @popey Well it's alpha, it's full of bugs
<popey> yeah, more specifically?
<ali1234> not reeeaaaally
<nja> and shut up @lubotu3
<ali1234> the alphas aren't that buggy
<ali1234> until the day it breaks totally
<nja> @ali1234 I'm finding pleanty of bugs
<ali1234> but most the time they're not worse than release
<ali1234> yeah... i find bugs in release every day :)
<popey> ali1234, i reckon you could reliably reproduce that bug doing what I'm doing
<popey> and see if mainline kernel does it too
<ali1234> perhaps
<ali1234> you mentioned the browser dimming
<popey> yeah, all my cores are iowait maxed
<ali1234> what seems to happen is that if no i/o, a process can max a core without dimming
<ali1234> but as soon as you get i/o, the process will dim if it tries to do a lot of cpu
<ali1234> i don't really know how to debug io though
<popey> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/111404712/Screenshot%20from%202012-07-29%2013%3A18%3A34.png
<ali1234> i've looked at iotop but i can't make sense of it
<ali1234> also i'm right in the middle of a wordpress coding project that needs to be done in the next two weeks
<ali1234> so i don't really want to start messing with kernels right now
<popey> I'll give it a go once this disk finishes, i have another to do
<ali1234> not until i deliver this thing anyway
<nja> Anyone here used Eclipse Juno?
<nja> It's the new eclipse version, after Indigo
<nja> It's now gone stable
<nja> It's way too sparkly for me
<penguin42> nja: I've run it - it's the default on Quantal - or trying to debug my Android app; I didn't notice any differences
<nja> @penguin42 On Windows the theme is totally different
<nja> Not sure about Ubuntu
<nja> I believe ubuntu is still Indigo in the public PPA
<penguin42> nja: It's 3.8 on Quantal
<penguin42> nja: Ah, Juno is apparently 4.2 - so not sure what 3.8 is
<SuperEngineer> ooo - yellow shere back in sky [
<SuperEngineer> ]
<christel> yay
<penguin42> where?!
<SuperEngineer> Glos.
<SuperEngineer> [rumour has it that it might even show itself to lesser counties sometime some ;) ]
<penguin42> If I look carefully I can see some blue sky - a little patch
<SuperEngineer> penguin42: ...if you wish hard enough [& tap your heels together three times] it might just..
 * brobostigon plays about with face unlock.
<SuperEngineer> Study Finds Global Warming Is Real And Man-Made  http://tinyurl.com/warming-real
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: Having a problem with extremes of weather?
<SuperEngineer> nah - not me - just the rest
<SuperEngineer> [p.s. current weather is exactly as predicted for this little island of ours - during global warming]
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: It would be interesting to record something like how often 'records' of coldest/wettest weather are broken; it's not the individual events but if we keep getting coldest winters followed by wettest summers etc then it would be more compelling
<SuperEngineer> penguin42: correct... & we are
 * SuperEngineer speaks from the place that first went under-water in July a few years back
<penguin42> yeh
<brobostigon> face unlock is fun, but very insecure in real terms.
<SuperEngineer> penguin42: btw the prediction is for milder winters & wetter summers
 * SuperEngineer calculates the energy required to move the jet stream
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: We had a pretty nasty winter last year though
 * SuperEngineer refers penguin42 to penguin42's own earlier statement re consistant
<SuperEngineer> [yea gads - I'm sounding like a politician - save me please!!!!]
<penguin42> haha
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: I just don't know how long a period you have to go for until you can declare it is part of the effect - I mean there have been really cold periods in the past that have had nothing to do with humans, and heck none of us have been around for long enough to get to understand the patterns over a few decades
<penguin42> (I agree it's happening, I just don't know whether to blame this summer on it!)
<SuperEngineer> penguin42: basically two choices:  believe or disbelieve results of polar ice-core samples, call it real or call it coincidence
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: I believe in climate change and I believe it's probably causing ice melt; I'm just not sure how much it's causing changes in our year-to-year weather
<penguin42> (*so far)
<SuperEngineer> penguin42: not talking about ice melt - talking about core samples showing millenia of weather changes and the "coincidental" difference pre & post industrial age human.  [this might be going a wee bit off topic for this channel btw]
<penguin42> (There's a topic?)
<SuperEngineer> dunno
<SuperEngineer> just don't to bore the others
<SuperEngineer> *want to...
<penguin42> I'm not sure any of the others are awake
<SuperEngineer> :D
<christel> hehe
<Pendulum> don't worry, we'll get loud if you bore us too much
<SuperEngineer> somebody say boo & prove you're awake
<christel> do continue, tis interesting enough ;)
<SuperEngineer> wow!
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: So yeh that story shows a link between CO2 levels/land temperatures and humans; but what about the quality of summer/winters - I know that in principal there is some possibility to screw up the jet stream and it has misbehaved for us this year - but is that a link?
<SuperEngineer> no it's not [neccessarily] a link - but the jet jet-stream moved a few years back [and it's just started returning to "home"position actually]
<penguin42> nod
<SuperEngineer> I was simply in awe of the amount of atmospheric etc energy difference to do that.
<SuperEngineer> & to all those wondering... yes, SuperEngineer does have a serious side after all [so meh!] ;)
 * penguin42 isn't sure how you work that out - I mean it's not actually the energy to move n m^3 of hot air; because that air is moving anyway, it's just changing the path a bit
<SuperEngineer> damn - just went back to normal /me
<SuperEngineer> penguin42: it's about evaporation rates over water, atmospheric densities, temperature differentials,.....
 * SuperEngineer blows mind trying to calculate
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: Nod, yeh and about the way the borders of the different cells interact
<SuperEngineer> mais oui monsieur
<SuperEngineer> ...& please - nobody mention super-cells
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: But the question is whether it'll have more impact on sea life than the elevated caffeine levels ( http://io9.com/5928303/human-urine-to-blame-for-elevated-levels-of-caffeine-found-in-coastal-waters )
<SuperEngineer> penguin42: wtf... you wanna start on elevated levels of female hormones in drinking water due to excess pee'd  by by those on hrt as well
<penguin42> caffeine is funnier
<SuperEngineer> to coin a phrase my own home-blood land "oi moight be daaaft, but oi not be stuuupid"
<SuperEngineer> *from my
<SuperEngineer> & btw, my home blood is Devon
<penguin42> clotted cream blood?
<SuperEngineer> yup
 * zleap is in devon
<SuperEngineer> [the red bits in my blood are jam]
<zleap> lol
<zleap> i will send count duckula after you, hes vegetarian
<SuperEngineer> lol
<jacobw> my father uses 'clotted cream' to describe his students as 'rich and thick'
<zleap> lol
<zleap> nice and non PC greast
<zleap> great
<jacobw> i want to move all messages not sent by me from folder sent to folder received
<jacobw> this doesn't seem to be possible with thunderbird :|
<MartijnVdS> jacobw: just go to one folder, Ctrl+A, Ctrl+C, then go to the other folder, Ctrl+V?
<jacobw> MartijnVdS: how do i only select messages where From != jacob?
<MartijnVdS> jacobw: by searching for them?
<MartijnVdS> jacobw: or sorting
<MartijnVdS> (and then only selecting the ones you want)
<Flashtek> jacobw: use the quick search dobrie
<jacobw> i can search for 'from me' and 'to me', but i can't search 'not from me'
<MartijnVdS> jacobw: use both and a temporary folder :)
<MartijnVdS> jacobw: both "From me"*
<MartijnVdS> jacobw: isn't there an 'invert search' or 'invert selection'?
<jacobw> it's possible with quick search, because i can exclude 'sender = jacob' from 'recipients = jacob' :)
<jacobw> MartijnVdS: unfortunately not
<MartijnVdS> jacobw: mutt -f imaps://...
<jacobw> ok, the quick filter doesn't consider being a CC to be being a recipient
<nja> Hi again all
<MartijnVdS> jacobw: mutt -f ~/mailbox
<jacobw> i could do that
<MartijnVdS> it would work, at least ;)
<nja> Welcome yuso6363!
<yuso6363> Hi nja :)
<nja> @Everyone Meet @yuso6363
 * penguin42 plays with the kdenlive video editor - pleasently surprised
<MartijnVdS> too bad you have to install most of KDE as well
<MartijnVdS> Which takes up a lot of disk space
 * penguin42 uses KDE as my main desktop on that ---> machine
<zleap> hi
<zleap> so how many bug reports or help questions do i need to raise my karma rating above 0
<AlanBell> not many, pretty much any use of launchpad should boost karma, but it does expire
<zleap> ok
<zleap> thanks, i did submit a confimation to a bug report
<zleap> so rather than submitting a new one,  i found a similar problem with a different printer and said my printer has the same issue
<AlanBell> Almost everything you do in Launchpad helps you to build karma. For example: registering bugs, translating strings and answering support requests. Different types of work earn different levels of karma. Also, the amount of karma a particular action gives you fades over time.
<AlanBell> is how it is described
<zleap> now that I sort of know what I am doing with launchpad i will see if I can contribute more
<Flashtek> launchpad ?
<Flashtek> zleap: Wheezy has kernel 3.2 :-)
<zleap> OK
<Flashtek> zleap: what's launchpad ?
<popey> http://launchpad.net/
<zleap> Flashtek, system for ubuntu users to collaboate and report bugs,  answer questions etc
 * popey wonders how soon before a LGW -> IOM flight one should arrive
 * popey thinks 2 hours is too early
<popey> monday morning though :S
<dwatkins> contingency is good, popey
<dwatkins> better to be early and have to do some reading in a quiet spot than rushing to get the plane
<Flashtek> Kindle...
<czajkowski> poory which airport ?
<czajkowski> popey even
<AlanBell> popey: is Canonical One not being sent to collect you?
<AlanBell> czajkowski: LGW is gatwick
<penguin42> popey: Don't you have to x2 for Olympic delays?
<czajkowski> alanbell on phone. didnt scroll
<popey> czajkowski, gatwick
<popey> AlanBell, sadly not
<popey> ugh
<popey> flight is 9am
<zleap> quest has a program on about star trek at 9pm
<zleap> trek nation
 * popey makes notes to avoid that channel
<zleap> i take it you're not a trekkie then
<popey> nope
<zleap> ok
<popey> they are somewhat overrated imo
 * penguin42 looks at Popey oddly
 * zleap likes star trek
 * zleap grabs enterprise technical manual
<zleap> :D
<christel> i am useless
<penguin42> zleap: I came across this earlier: http://www.lettersofnote.com/2010/08/star-trekcasting.html
<dwatkins> no-one is useless
<zleap> denese crosby ended up as tasha yar iirc
<zleap> anyway
<zleap> penguin42, interesting
<penguin42> zleap: I got lost in that site for a few hours earlier :-)
<zleap> lol
<zleap> i have a signed piccy of robert beltran
<zleap> looks an interesting site that
<zleap> any chance of someone dropping in to #lubuntu please to help with a sound issue
<popey> zleap, what's the issue?
<zleap> pulseaudio  and alsa issues
<AlanBell> popey: lubuntu doesn't use pulse yet by default, someone installed vlc and it pulled in enough of pulse to break it
<popey> nice
<popey> why does lubuntu not use pulse?
<zleap> AlanBell, suggested it is due to it being large package for a lightweight distro
<popey> don't think I'll ever quite understand lubuntu
<gord> pulse is a bit big compaired to just using alsa, but if your gonna base a distro on ubuntu and not use pulse, you are gonna have a bad time
<ali1234> yet pulse still causes endless problems...
<AlanBell> well in this instance the problem is caused by not using it
<AlanBell> I think Ubuntu proper is past the pain point with pulse
<ali1234> yeah as long as you don't use wine or skype
<AlanBell> I use skype, works fine
<AlanBell> don't have any wine applications that make a sound
<ali1234> sometimes it works fine, sometimes you get buffer underruns and the audio breaks up
<ali1234> pulseaudio -k usually fixes it, though you do have to restart skype as well
<AlanBell> ok, I don't use skype very much
 * AlanBell has no friends
<AlanBell> violin plays
 * popey installed the "new" skype today
 * popey calls wifey in the other room
<DJones> popey: Re your comment about an ubuntu sticker for your car, a friend of the family has a business making signs for cars/buses etc
<ali1234> you should get a whole wrap
<ali1234> like this: http://www.t444.co.uk/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/vehicle-wrap-1.jpg
<DJones> he does things like this http://shop.signed-by.co.uk/images/uploads/impreza_kit.jpg
<popey> right, just called wifey in the other room and i had zero problem on ubuntu, her webcam wouldn't work on osx
<popey> because (I suspect) chrome had stolen the device, despite her never using the webcam in the browser
<popey> closed chrome, webcam worked
<AlanBell> google hangout on Ubuntu worked *great* yesterday in the garden
<christel> why yes, it had pen *and* babies
<AlanBell> love the tripod mount on the webcam
<christel> and blacked out people typing furiously without saying a word!
<bigcalm> Good evening peeps :)
<Pendulum> hiya bigcalm
<zleap> Flashtek,
<bigcalm> Howdy Pendulum :)
<christel> heya bigclam
<Flashtek> zleap:
 * bigcalm jumps on christel
 * christel squeals
 * bigcalm gives christel a big hello!
<christel> HAI
<christel> how are you myd ear?
<christel> my dear*
<bigcalm> I am _very_ full
<bigcalm> Just back from Hayley's parents where there was a bit of a gathering
<zleap> Flashtek, it still doesn't like me using zleap
<Flashtek> using the right username and password etc ?
<Flashtek> and right port ?
<zleap> erm
<zleap> oh uid and password
<zleap> i got in a real mess with those before
<Flashtek> uh huh...
 * zleap = numpty with znc
<ali1234> 29942 al        20   0 2814m 1.9g  61m R  100 11.9 427:12.62 firefox
<ali1234> :(
<zleap> Flashtek, it won't work
<dogmatic69> o/
<bigcalm> Evening
<Azelphur> does anyone have a bash script that will run a program, and keep it running unless it exits cleanly?
<Azelphur> conky keeps crashing on me, gets boring :(
<ali1234> use upstart
<Azelphur> sounds nice and complicated
<jacobw> i've become an op in #node.js by hanging around long enough
<jacobw> cool :p
<Azelphur> :D
<jacobw> upstart isn't complicated
<jacobw> http://inportb.com/2011/08/11/managing-a-virtualbox-guest-using-upstart/
<jacobw> that's a good example
<ali1234> does node.js replace jquery? or is it usual to use them both at the same time?
<cliftonts> Hi guys, who fancies a challenge?
<directhex> i fancy a mojito. is that similar enough?
<cliftonts> doubtful
<cliftonts> I'm stumped with a qemu install though, there doesn't seem to be an executable file at all
<cliftonts> nobody?
<cliftonts> oh well, no idea what I'm going to do then
<dwatkins> ...and they're gone
<ali1234> ok so i need a javascript function that takes a string like "http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uw7TY-zPaas&feature=related" and returns "Uw7TY-zPaas"
#ubuntu-uk 2013-07-22
<MrGarlic>  To all those complaining about the current lovely weather in Britain I say the following: boo to you sirs, boo to you madams, boo to you gender non-binary people.
<jenny_> yo
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<marcushaslam> hi
<brobostigon> hi marcushaslam
<marcushaslam> brobostigon: hi marcushaslam
<brobostigon> :)
<marcushaslam> marcushaslam: hi even
<marcushaslam> :)
<brobostigon> hi brobostigon :)
<marcushaslam> marcushaslam: brobostigon: hi marcushaslam
<brobostigon> lol.
<MooDoo_> morning all
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo_
<mungbean> that was an expensive beer...
<mungbean> woops wrong channel :D
<mungbean> or rather i was replying to a 3 day old comment
<dwatkins> I do that a lot, forget I've scrolled-up in irssi.
<MooDoo> lol
<mungbean> my employer has decided to replace 1300 windows xp desktops with windows 8
<mungbean> failsome
<MooDoo> better than xp....
<mungbean> wrong asnwer :P
<mungbean> of course win7 was the one they needed
<dwatkins> windows 8 with start8 isn't so bad.
<MooDoo> machines come pre built with win8
<dwatkins> ultimately, Windows 7 is probably fine for a corporate environment that requires windws-based apps, though. I'm surprised there's been enough time for a company to evaluate Windows 8.
<mungbean> but the decision making process was not based on anything concrete, rather an airy assumption that students would come to uni with win8 on all their ipads, android tabs and laptops in various states of crustiness
<mungbean> regardless of whether win8 is actually usable (it is not)
<MooDoo> waht you actually mean is ms told the uni you can have a windows license for .5p a machine ;)
<mungbean> oh they sold their soul a couple of years ago
<mungbean> since then , the move away from open source has got millions in contractors, downtime and VM sprawl
<mungbean> and licences
<dwatkins> if all the tools are web-based, the OS is less important
<dwatkins> if anything requires IE6, then the network is already a failure ;)
<MooDoo> you're just going to have to work your ass off fixing all the c**p
<mungbean> not me, some other poor buggers...actually rich buggers cos they will increase their contractor army
<MooDoo> yup
<mungbean> earning approx 3x what us munters earn
<mungbean> hey ho
<dwatkins> fixing or just explaining how the start menu works?
<mungbean> got that monday feeling
<arc__> how do i reinstall grub
<dwatkins> arc__: this might help, or ask on #ubuntu - https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Grub2/Installing#Reinstalling_GRUB_2
<arc__> ok i got help form #ubuntu
<dwatkins> I had to do this the other day, there's a GUI-based automated tool, too, which is handy
<dwatkins> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Boot-Repair
<dwatkins> I was able to run it from a boot CD, and it fixed everything with little intervention.
<JamesTait> Good morning all, happy Pi Approximation Day! :-D
<mungbean> lol
 * DJones rounds pi to 3
<DJones> Then eats said apple pi
<MooDoo> is that approximate?
<MooDoo> lol
<mungbean> my son (3) made a new word yesterday. what's that? a hexagon...correct. what's this (show a quarter circle segment of pie): a quartagon
<SuperMatt> that's quite cool
<SuperMatt> he's obviously very logically minded
<mungbean> yes
<mungbean> scarily so
<SuperMatt> what actually is the name for a quarter circle segment?
<SuperMatt> and arc?
<SuperMatt> I think it's an arc
<SuperMatt> *an
<mungbean> an arc is only the outer bit
<SuperMatt> slice?
<popey_> morning
<SuperMatt> morning
<MooDoo> arrived ok then popey ?
<mungbean> in 3d it is a wedge
<popey> ya
<MooDoo> good good
<popey> been up for ~29 hours
<MooDoo> ouch
<popey> probably time for sleep now
<MooDoo> then why you on here lol
<MooDoo> what time is it there?
<popey> 02:29
<lornajane> where .... oh, OSCON?
<MooDoo> timezones eh!
<popey> \o/ pizza arriving
<SuperMatt> at this time of day?
<MooDoo> SuperMatt: it's 2am where he is
<SuperMatt> oh right
<MooDoo> oscon
<popey> \o/
<SuperMatt> I'd just go to bed, tbh
<SuperMatt> I can't be doing with being up so late
<MooDoo> he's going for the record, 29 hours uptime ;)
<popey> not my call
<popey> my roomie ordered pizza \o/
<MooDoo> wow so many awesome speakers at oscon
<Laney> mmm portland
<Laney> supposed to have good beer
 * popey cosiders cold pizza for breakfash
<MooDoo> you need sleep popey
<diplo> Morning all
<popey> yes, yes i do
 * popey sleeps
<mungbean> how is winmail.dat still an issue in this day and age?
<mungbean> fortunately there's a thunderbird plugin for it
<dwatkins> once again, the open sauce community rescues a coproration from embarrasment
<SuperMatt> oh, is that that file that can never get over 2G or you lose EVERYTHING?
<davmor2> Morning all
<mungbean> SuperMatt: thats teh pst file
<mungbean> winmail.dat is any attachment received from a outlook client
<mungbean> needs to be converted before reading the attachments
<SuperMatt> oh yeah, you're right
<SuperMatt> oh gods, now I remember winmail.dat
<mungbean> http://ubuntuforums.org/announce.html?t=1690426
<mungbean> can't remember my ubuntu forum password
<SuperMatt> I've never liked attachments on emails
<mungbean> but had it for years, hope i didn't reuse
<SuperMatt> just duplicates the bloody data
<SuperMatt> "I'm just going to email 20 people this one document. Please make changes to it and send it back"
<SuperMatt> now I have 21 copies of the document
<SuperMatt> I may have reused the password, but I've changed all the important ones since
<SuperMatt> if someone wants to break in to my gamespy account, go ahead
<mungbean> ok
<dvrr> Hiiiiiiii
<dvrr> ubuntu  old kernel  removing time   i face  some problems  please  help me
<MooDoo> just tell people what the problem is and if they can help you they will
<MooDoo> !ask
<lubotu3> Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line and in the channel, so that others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-) See also !patience
<dvrr> please open this URL http://paste.ubuntu.com/5900138/   i faced  this type of problems
<MooDoo> have you tried apt-get -f instal ?
<dvrr> yes
<MooDoo> so what's the output of apt-get -f install ?
<dvrr> please  open  this URL  http://paste.ubuntu.com/5900154/
<DJones> Looking at that, /boot is full
<DJones> From line 38
<dvrr> yes
<dvrr> boot partition full 100 %
<directhex> yeah
<dvrr> what i have to do  please  could you  tel me
<directhex> the emergency "get out of jail free" option when that happens is to delete an old initrd or two (i.e. one not in use) from /boot, then you should be able to complete the dpkg operations normally, including uninstalling old kernels
<MooDoo> oh bugger missed that :)
<directhex> i.e. what does "ls -hl /boot" and "uname -a" say?
<DJones> Its not something I've done, so I wouldn't like to make any any suggestion, somebody else should be able to help though
<dvrr> root@ubuntu:~# uname -a Linux ubuntu 3.5.0-32-generic #53-Ubuntu SMP Wed May 29 20:23:04 UTC 2013 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux
<directhex> ok, so 3.5.0-32-generic in use currently
<dvrr> using  ls -hl    please open this URL  http://paste.ubuntu.com/5900164/
<directhex> ok, so you have 7 kernels installed
<directhex> let's do what i said - delete some files you aren't using, let the "apt-get -f install" finish, the uninstall the old kernels "properly"
<directhex> so "rm /boot/initrd.img-3.5.0-2*" should do the first part
<directhex> and free up about 100 meg of space
<dvrr> no  automatically update
<directhex> ... i don't understand what you just said
<TheOpenSourcerer> Just run this command (inc brackets):
<TheOpenSourcerer> ( \
<TheOpenSourcerer> KERNEL_HIGHEST=$(dpkg -l 'linux-image-[0-9.]*-[0-9]*-[a-zA-Z0-9]*' | grep ^ii | awk '{print $2}' | sort -V | tail -n 1 | sed 's/^linux-image-\([0-9.]*-[0-9]*\)-.*$/\1/') ; \
<TheOpenSourcerer> KERNEL_CURRENT=$(uname -r | sed "s/\(.*\)-\([^0-9]\+\)/\1/") ; \
<TheOpenSourcerer> sudo apt-get purge $(dpkg -l 'linux-*-[0-9-]*' | grep ^ii | awk '{print $2}' | sed "/$KERNEL_CURRENT/d;/$KERNEL_HIGHEST/d" ) ; \
<dvrr> i did not install  7 kernels  automatically update only
<TheOpenSourcerer> )
<TheOpenSourcerer> courtesy of http://www.tolaris.com/2012/07/19/removing-old-kernels-from-ubuntu/
<directhex> TheOpenSourcerer, note: will leave his system pretty screwy since he's not booted on the highest kernel right now
<directhex> dvrr, i didn't debate that point, i tried to help you to fix it. if you're not interested in that, then fine.
<directhex> TheOpenSourcerer, also, it doesn't fix the underlying problem - dpkg is stuck in a broken transaction because there's no free disk space, so the "apt-get purge" commands in that scriptlet cannot complete. deleting some initrds to make space first is not optional. dpkg needs to be in a clean state
<TheOpenSourcerer> ahh.
 * TheOpenSourcerer runs away!
 * directhex wonders how long it takes to run a single "rm", assumes this is going to be more painful than he has time for
<MooDoo> directhex: try it rm -rf /* ;) <---- DO NOT REALLY RUN THIS I'M JOKING
<MooDoo> just for the benefit of the logs :D
 * AlanBell slaps MooDoo for even joking
<hd5770> moodoo that command is running a lot of stuff getting deleted
<MooDoo> AlanBell: *blush* :)
<MooDoo> hd5770: :) oops
<DJones> From memory, UBuntu has a --preserve-root flag set so it won't do anything unless you're on a really old version
 * DJones tries it in a VM just for fun
<DJones> rm: cannot remove ' pretty much anything '
<DJones> But does break the system
<DJones> Its removed font/language packs sudo is no longer recognised as a command
<DJones> Killed off grub when trying to reboot
<hd5770> lol
<DJones> It was quite interesting to do as an experiment
<mungbean> sudo -i first
<mungbean> run it from vty-1
<DJones> Just a straight sudo running in a terminal
<czajkowski> neuro_: mgdm http://www.groupon.com.au/deals/national-deal/Highland-Titles/717215553?nlp&CID=AU_CRM_1_0_0_203&a=715827934
<mgdm> it's a scam
<mgdm> has no legal bearing whatsoever, as far as I recall
<diplo> Anyone in here ever used a HP MSA1000 ?
<MooDoo> I guess that's a no then diplo :)
<diplo> heh, guessing so :)
<MooDoo> diplo: lots of storage though :D
<diplo> yeah, freebie from a customer
<diplo> But 5 of the discs aren't working, wanted to go on the serial port but they haven't suppled the cable. Wondering if whether a cisco serial one would work, also just some general advice
<diplo> May go and search for one now
<MooDoo> google is your friend in times like these
<diplo> yeah I'm failing like a pro
<mungbean> cameron wants to set up a UK wide pron filter. that'll work then.
<brobostigon> lol, quite.
<davmor2> mungbean: if it goes through expect whoever removes it to get in for the next election :)  + I thought it was more to target child porn which in my opinion simply shouldn't happen fullstop.
<mungbean> nah, nothing ever gets removed by the next govt
<mungbean> rah rah 17.5% VAT is terrible
<mungbean> etc etc
<davmor2> yes and they did remove the 17.5% they replaced it with 20%
<mungbean> "thats just temporary"
<davmor2> yeah for nearly 4 years ;)
<brobostigon> first time for everything, my nexus7 just bootlooped with memory errors, connected adb, tried to fix it, couldnt, so reflashed android, all back to normal.
<MooDoo> i'm thinking of a nexus 4
<brobostigon> MooDoo: nice bit of kit, :)
<MooDoo> brobostigon: selling my galaxy s3 to get it :D
<brobostigon> MooDoo: ah, :)
<davmor2> MooDoo: apparently you'll need a bouncy case just ask popey
<MooDoo> davmor2: people have already shown me their phones, then agian shouldn't I be waiting for this sparkly ubuntu phone as well.
<popey> Good morning all
<davmor2> popey: morning how is oscon
<MooDoo> howdy popey sleep well ish?  and how was the cold pizza :D
<popey> yummy
<SuperMatt> wait, how long were you asleep for?
<SuperMatt> can't have been that long!
<popey> dunno, some hours
<popey> wide awake now
<davmor2> popey: you won't get anywhere trying to use yum on ubuntu and yummy isn't even a command :P
<MooDoo> davmor2: what?  you can't use yum on ubuntu, so what's this yum update i've just ran then :p
<davmor2> MooDoo: you're not on ubuntu :P
<davmor2> MooDoo: ssh'ing into RHEL boxes does count :D
<MooDoo> davmor2: unless I aliased yum to apt-get
<MooDoo> davmor2: ok ok i'll shutup now
<MooDoo> davmor2: I don't like this new job czajkowski has, we never get time to abuse her any more :(
 * davmor2 waits on the almight whack to land on MooDoo 
<MooDoo> :D
 * czajkowski slaps MooDoo over to the naughty step
<czajkowski> am here
 * MooDoo is in #naughtystep :d
<mungbean> stupid java crapware
<mungbean> notice the "ask" toolbar appeared on chrome are i rushed a java update
<mungbean> after I
<mungbean> only login to windows every few weeks and get bombarded with updates
<MooDoo> i'm the same with ubuntu.....don't update for a few weeks then get bombarded with them :D
<MooDoo> ok so the royal baby is nearly upon us, but who cares about that when's the ubuntu phone here? ;) lol
<zleap> :)
<zleap> so where can we buy this ubuntu phone in normal phone shops
<zleap> this is where it needs to be, on display on the high street so people can walk in and see it as an option
<popey> it does?
<SuperMatt> we don't even know there is going to be an ubuntu phone! (we totally know there's going to be an ubuntu phone)
<davmor2> czajkowski: so the new chicks are settling in? Are they picking on piripiri
<czajkowski> she's picking on them and driving us all a bit crazy
<SuperMatt> did someone say chicks? https://plus.google.com/photos/104760950939866700163/albums/5903437285399947169/5903437281909106562?authkey=CLrK5vitlcrKoQE
<davmor2> czajkowski: she'll be boss then
<czajkowski> davmor2: indeed
<czajkowski> much hen pecking
<MooDoo> i think your over egg-agerrating on that czajkowski
<lornajane> czajkowski: did I miss something important?  What's your new job?
<dvrr> dvrr
<dvrr> thank you very  much  everyone
<MooDoo> lornajane: http://www.lczajkowski.com/2013/06/13/a-bite-of-something-new/
<czajkowski> lornajane: community manager here in EMEA for Mongodb at 10gen
<dvrr> MooDoo,  directhex, TheOpenSourcerer  resolved my boot  partation  problem
<lornajane> czajkowski: that's awezome, I love the 10gen guys (I mostly know the driver team, Derick's a close friend)
<neuro_> czajkowski: highland titles?! bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
<neuro_> czajkowski: *hug* :)
<MooDoo> dvrr: cool
<czajkowski> lornajane: yes Derick is good
<czajkowski> so I am getting to know all about the php evens in EMEA :)
<lornajane> czajkowski: it's a terribly important community, I hope you'll make sure to attend them all (and purely by coincidence have a drink with me)
<mgdm> czajkowski: you'll be at PHPNW13 then? :)
<lornajane> czajkowski: what mgdm said :)
<czajkowski> one of the first thigns I've done is to make it easier to request help from us http://www.lczajkowski.com/2013/07/16/making-it-simpler-to-get-sponsorship-when-needed-from-10gen/
<czajkowski> also the more sharing of that post would be great :)
<czajkowski> mgdm: it's when and where
<czajkowski> I#m now booked to attend a lot of things up to noember :)
<czajkowski> *november
<mgdm> czajkowski: Oct 4-6, Manchester
<neuro_> czajkowski: please tell me you have no interest in that titles thing
<mgdm> czajkowski: http://conference.phpnw.org.uk/phpnw13/
<MooDoo> post shared czajkowski
<czajkowski> neuro_: No but I found it cute and entertaining
<neuro_> czajkowski: it's misleading, a scam and immoral
<popey> \o/ breakfast
<SuperMatt> more pizza?
<popey> no, shattering bacon
<SuperMatt> shattering?
<neuro_> wat?
<SuperMatt> streaky?
<popey> merican
<neuro_> it's the worst kind of bacon
<popey> indeed it is
<popey> and I'm eating it with a non-shattering bacon
<SuperMatt> burnt to a crisp too, no doubt
<neuro_> all of the hype, none of the meat
<neuro_> yeah, i don't get the crisp thing either
<SuperMatt> I like mine quite pink and dripping in fat
<neuro_> "hey, let's take the awesome meat from a pig, but let's get the fattiest, streakiest, least-meaty parts, and burn it until all the remaining goodness has been sucked out of it, and call it Awesome"
<popey> and add syrup
<neuro_> yeah, what's that all about
<SuperMatt> god, that makes me feel sick
<neuro_> more and more i can't take americans seriously when they say they love bacon, but then you get a good look at what they're eating
<neuro_> it's like someone saying "i love haggis!" but it's veggie haggis
<neuro_> or "I love pizza!" but it's frozen pizza from iceland
<SuperMatt> important pizza question:
<neuro_> yes
<neuro_> is the answer
<SuperMatt> the following morning, do you nuke it for a minute or leave it cold?
<neuro_> sorry, continue
<arc__> hi i need lot's of help with grub plz
<neuro_> i eat it cold
<neuro_> but that's personal preference
<neuro_> and it depends on the pizza
<SuperMatt> arc__: what's the problem
<neuro_> and how much cheese has been gunked on it in the first place
<arc__> here is a paste bin http://paste.ubuntu.com/5900834/
<neuro_> too much cheese + next morning = bin
<neuro_> wow, nice
<neuro_> don't do that
<arc__> what
<neuro_> install grub to a partition
<SuperMatt> install /dev/sda
<neuro_> install it to the mbr instead
<neuro_> yeah, that
 * SuperMatt nods
<arc__> how
<neuro_> like how SuperMatt said
<arc__> ok
<neuro_> BUT
<SuperMatt> sudo grub-install /dev/sda
<AlanBell> without the 2
<neuro_> you are messing with the boot record on your disk, so tread lightly
<arc__> ok exec it now
<neuro_> measure twice, cut once
<neuro_> or just ram ahead full steam
<neuro_> whatever
<SuperMatt> that's what I said when I had my circumcision
<arc__> ok it works now
<neuro_> ha
<AlanBell> any particular reason why you are in the situation where you have to use such a command
<AlanBell> TMI SuperMatt  :)
<SuperMatt> :D
<neuro_> generally if you don't understand what grub is doing, you shouldn't be doing things with it
<SuperMatt> don't worry, it aint true
<SuperMatt> I never said that
<neuro_> SuperMatt: said the vicar to the nun
<arc__> also how to make record my  desktop faster when encoding
<neuro_> yeah, that's a one line answer ... ;)
<neuro_> oh wait, it is
<neuro_> buy a faster computer
<SuperMatt> yup
<arc__> ok
<neuro_> or the longer answer:
<neuro_> buy more ram
<neuro_> and faster disks
<neuro_> and a faster CPU
<neuro_> or more CPUs
<arc__> ok
<SuperMatt> all of this
<neuro_> what SuperMatt said
<arc__> it is a bit pointless to buy more cpu's if your motherboard dosn't support it
 * SuperMatt sheds a tear
<SuperMatt> I've just removed The H from my feeds
<neuro_> hence "buy a faster computer"
<neuro_> the h .... oh yeah, they're "sunsetting", aren't they?
<SuperMatt> yup :(
<SuperMatt> they were quite good
<neuro_> i never bothered with them tbh
<neuro_> i never really rated heise's quality, but that's probably just a snap rash decision based on nothing but gut instinct
<neuro_> oh no, The Verge reviews R.I.P.D. ... "'Men in Black' meets 'Ghostbusters,' minus the good parts"
<neuro_> and i was looking forward to it too
<SuperMatt> :(
<mgdm> heh, I saw a prety scathing review of it the other day
<neuro_> i have something of a mancrush on ryan reynolds
<neuro_> also, you know, Mary Louise Parker
<mungbean> i threw a laptop and a motherboard in the skip at the dump on sautrday
<neuro_> bad
<MooDoo> damn I thought that looked good, I shou;dn't have watched atlantic rim as it's put me off pacific rim :(
<neuro_> naughty bad person
<mungbean> as i stared into the abyss i saw other techonology staring back at me "pleeeease rescue me"
<neuro_> was it a kosher WEEE skip, or was it just like a skip "down the street"
<arc__> anyway when i started fire starter it came with an error that failed to open system log
<mungbean> a WEEEEEEEEE skip
<mungbean> at the dump
<mungbean> almost took a photo
<neuro_> ok, you're not naughty then
<neuro_> you should have!
<mungbean> you go up some steps and look down on loads of equipment
<neuro_> arc__: and was the system log in the place where it said it wasn't?
<mungbean> men were looking at me
<neuro_> ah
<mungbean> probably cos i had my 3yr old son
<arc__> no
<neuro_> probably thinking you looked like an open source type, and might have tried an extraction mission
<mungbean> maybe they thought i was gonna throw him in
<neuro_> lol
<mungbean> nah, wasn't wearing black tshirt
<popey> http://igg.me/at/ubuntuedge
<mungbean> or beard
<neuro_> you just say to them "but the human body generates more bio-electricity than a 120-volt battery and over 25,000 BTUs of body heat!"
<arc__> no event info will be available
<neuro_> every time i see "igg.me" i think "is this iggy pop's new website?"
<neuro_> arc__: have you tried checking with the fire starter community? not sure how many people in here will have used it and had to troubleshoot it before.
 * mungbean has been burned by early adoption before
<arc__> ok will try that
<Laney> "rakishly chamfered edges"
<Laney> hahaha
<neuro_> the Jony Ive kool aid has been well and truly swallowed :)
<neuro_> CHAMFERED EDGES, MOTHER****ER!
<neuro_> good lord
<neuro_> i just saw the goal amount
<SuperMatt> \o/
<SuperMatt> yeah
<SuperMatt> it's... a lot
<neuro_> they want 32 million
<mungbean> Finally, you can also boot the phone into Android
<neuro_> MILLION
<SuperMatt> but I imagine that there might be some companies about to put some big money in
<SuperMatt> 0.001% of the way there already
<neuro_> into an untried device?
<SuperMatt> yup!
<Laney> it's going up every time i refresh
<neuro_> oh, this is actually a Canonical thing?
<neuro_> it's really unclear
<neuro_> why do canonical need crowdfunded money to make a phone?
<MooDoo> they are doing over a kickstarter like event?  don't they have the money already?
<neuro_> haven't they heard of these things called "banks"?
<mungbean> If we donât reach our target then we will focus only on commercially available handsets and there will not be an Ubuntu Edge.
<MooDoo> neuro_: snap! :)
<neuro_> mungbean: i like the passive aggressiveness there :)
<mungbean> testing market desire for the product
<neuro_> a test would be a $100K goal
<mungbean> if you don't wash your hands you won't eat your dinner
<popey> Yeah, it's not about throwing money at the problem
<SuperMatt> 0.02% \o/
<joshmyers> hey guys, I have a cronjob that runs s3cmd and sometimes outputs warning. I want to supress these warnings, can I pipe my command to like | grep -v 'WARNING' > /dev/null
<mungbean> still, its a lot of phones and the skeptic in me says nearer $1m
<joshmyers> to intercept warning?
<neuro_> no
<neuro_> well actually, yeah
<popey> $1M wouldn't cover the cost
<popey> Â£30 doesn't to be fair
<popey> add a M to that â»
<neuro_> but if the warnings are going out on stderr, just do this instead: 2&>1
<neuro_> since you're redirecting stdout to /dev/null anyway
<neuro_> that'll redirect stderr to stdout
<neuro_> so foo >/dev/null 2&>1
<neuro_> joshmyers: make sense?
<joshmyers> but I dont want to redirect all stderr to /dev/null. I want to know if it gets an ERROR, and not warning
<joshmyers> so I just want any output of WARNING to go to /dev/null / into the ether :)
<neuro_> oh
<neuro_> well do the grep *and* the 2&>1 thing
<neuro_> but not the dev null
<neuro_> or something
<neuro_> my brain hurts
<joshmyers> lol :)
<directhex> is a 28 day warranty legal under eu law? it's not obvious, since it's not a "purchase" per se
<neuro_> so wait, canonical haven't made a hardware product yet, right?
<neuro_> directhex: they won't be able to override statutory rights
<joshmyers> neuro_: I'd have thought this should work, but it doesn't: | grep -v "WARNING:" > /dev/null
<neuro_> joshmyers: my brain is too mashed in this heat to figure it out
<neuro_> joshmyers: so write a wrapper shell script
<neuro_> that greps stuff out
<neuro_> #!/bin/bash
<neuro_> foo | grep -v waa
<neuro_> then do the cronjob pointing to the wrapper script
<popey> neuro_: we dont plan to make hardware
<neuro_> so what's the money for?
<popey> getting someone else to make it ã
<neuro_> tch ok, let me rephrase
<neuro_> canonical haven't SOLD a hardware product yet, right?
 * popey stops being picky
<popey> yeah, we're a software company
<neuro_> na, was a fair point :)
<SuperMatt> not sure why so many people are going for the $600 option
<neuro_> so my question is
<neuro_> SuperMatt: cos it's a one day only thing?
<SuperMatt> you don't get the phone, only one that has a knocked down price
<MartijnVdS> neuro_: didn't Canonical sell USB sticks with Ubuntu installers in the web shop?
<popey> $600 is what i paid for my iphone
<SuperMatt> which could be only a penny
<popey> it's not an outlandish amount for what you get
<popey> MartijnVdS: 3rd party
<neuro_> MartijnVdS: that's not a consumer electronics product requiring support infrastructure behind it though
<joshmyers> neuro_: but why do I have to do it in a wrapper script? why cant I just pipe to grep?
<neuro_> joshmyers: because, reasons
<directhex> $830 is an outlandish amount for what you get though. that's the price, assuming you don't impulse buy within the next 24 hours
<joshmyers> :P
<joshmyers> http://sourceforge.net/p/s3tools/discussion/618865/thread/f81a67a1
<neuro_> $830 = UKP540
<neuro_> entry level iphone 5 incl vat UKP529
<popey> mine isn't an iphone 5
<neuro_> so?
<neuro_> IT'S NOT ALL ABOUT YOU, ALAN!
<neuro_> ;)
<popey> well, i was making the observation that 600 USD is the kind of amount people pay for unlocked premium phones
<neuro_> sure
<popey> and this is way more premium than any existing phone
<neuro_> i was making your point
<popey> heh
<neuro_> iphone = this
<MartijnVdS> "What happened?" "They agreed, violently."
<neuro_> edge thing = this + 11 quid
<neuro_> 11 quid = not much
<neuro_> this feels like a vanity project to me
<neuro_> google produce flagship unmodified handsets to show off the OS
<MartijnVdS> neuro_: well, if this is going to be shipped by some (or all) of the carriers in the CAG..
<neuro_> apple produce the same
<neuro_> although in saying that, every new apple phone has been a flagship device
<neuro_> MartijnVdS: why would it be?
<MartijnVdS> why not
<neuro_> surely the money from the campaign will be used to make the phones/
<neuro_> s/\/\?/
<neuro_> crap
<neuro_> messed that up
<MartijnVdS> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leaning_toothpick_syndrome
<neuro_> i hate backslashes
<Dave2> neuro_: ITYM s,/,?,
<popey> which is a flagship google product?
<MartijnVdS> Dave2: s{/}{?}
<neuro_> Dave2: i'll substitute YOUR expression
<MartijnVdS> popey: The Nexus *
<neuro_> yep
<Dave2> MartijnVdS: now that just looks silly
<popey> The nexus 4 is hardly premium
<MartijnVdS> popey: (and the Pixel)
<MartijnVdS> Dave2: \o/ Perl
<slvr> MartijnVdS: does that actually work?
<popey> it's a budget phone
<neuro_> the pixel ... *brrrr*
<MartijnVdS> popey: not when it first came out
<neuro_> popey: never mind
<popey> yes
<popey> when it first came out and now, it's _not_ a premium product
<neuro_> popey: you appear unable to divine the meaning from my statements :)
<popey> insufficient coffee perhaps
 * popey imbibesw
<popey> -w
<neuro_> c'est possible
<neuro_> were you imbibing while typing again?
<neuro_> glubglubglubglubspilldammitmesswipewipewipeswearhmmmglubglubglub...
<neuro_> i'm not deliberately confrontational, just accidentally and genetically so
<popey> My point is simply that $600 is a reasonable amount of money for a premium device, that's all. The iPhone has (historically) been seen as a premium device and sells for a comparable amount.
<Laney> someone's paid the full price already
<Laney> ^o)
<SuperMatt> 1% of the way there
<SuperMatt> that's not bad
<neuro_> um
<Laney> maths?!?!?!?!
<neuro_> which planet are you from where 37000 is 1% of 32000000
<SuperMatt> sorry
<SuperMatt> 0.01
<neuro_> seriously
<MartijnVdS> neuro_: "Super"Matt -> Krypton?
<neuro_> dig out a calculator
<SuperMatt> dammit, it's 0.1
<neuro_> lol
<SuperMatt> what's wrong with me today
<neuro_> you suck?
<neuro_> it happens to me all the time
<SuperMatt> I don't know
<MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: heat melting brain?
<SuperMatt> no, it's nicely airconned here
<MooDoo> SuperMatt: you need some iron brew :p
<DJones> When you look at the planned hardware, the price does seem reasonable for a premium phone, how many phones come with 4Gb of memory and a 128Gb SSD, so from that point of view comparing phone against phone, its not as much of a shock
<neuro_> eww
<neuro_> iron brew?
<popey> the memory itself is astonishly expensive
<popey> as is the screen
<neuro_> DJones: will it still seem as good in a year?
<MooDoo> neuro_: first think I could think of .... silly me I've just got a glass on my desk
<neuro_> manky cheap supermarket stuff :O
<SuperMatt> it's actually going up quite fast
<neuro_> they need to average 43K an hour
<SuperMatt> over 1mil per day
<SuperMatt> oh how I'd lol if someone typed in too many zerons
<SuperMatt> -n
<neuro_> check out the big brain on brett :)
<DJones> neuro_: That would depend how other manufacturers improve their hardware, if it goes ahead and they don't match it then you never know
<SuperMatt> like they were including cents, or something
<neuro_> wouldn't surprise me if htc or samsung came out with a 128GB unit
<BigRedS> anyone know where the AppArmour config for the guest account is in 13.04?
<BigRedS> or if there's a 'proper' way to configure it to be able to use USB sticks :)
<Laney> BigRedS: /etc/apparmor.d/lightdm-guest-session @ the includes
<Laney> &
 * popey has the Ubuntu Edge prototype in his hands. Was stressfull bringing them over!
<SuperMatt> I am genuinely surprised how fast the money is going up
<popey> worried about losing them!
<Laney> don't "leave it in a bar"
<SuperMatt> cripes, I didn't realise a prototype had been made already
<neuro_> SuperMatt: says so on the indiegogo page
<SuperMatt> I wasn't paying attention
<neuro_> popey: them or it?
<popey> there's more than one
<ali1234> does that really say $32 million?
<popey> is your display broken?
<ali1234> i'm not sure
<neuro_> so surely "an Ubuntu Edge prototype" would have been more accurate? :)
<neuro_> ali1234: it does
<ali1234> i think it must be
<popey> why are you even bothering neuro_ ? â»
<popey> i have _one_ in my hands
<popey> I have more than one in my bag
<popey> jeez
<neuro_> yeah but you said "the" :)
<popey> you should get a job
<popey> well there is only one prototype design
<neuro_> COMPILING!
<popey> of course
<neuro_> and you know i have a job, mister snarky :)
<ali1234> so who wants to take bets on how much this actually raises?
<ali1234> i call < $1m
<MooDoo> I can < $300k
<neuro_> i'm sure it'll break that
<MooDoo> call
<MooDoo> i take that back seeing as it's 64k and still has 31 days to go lol
<SuperMatt> problem is, if it isn't anywhere near close by the end of the day, it aint gonna happen
<AlanBell> day 1 and day 31 will be the biggest days
<SuperMatt> yup
<AlanBell> I am struggling to see a business making an $80k decision on an implementation project in a 31 day window, for a project that can't start until next year
<ali1234> i can't see many people paying $800 for a smartphone
<SuperMatt> I imagine it'll be for companies like orange and vodafone
<DJones> I wonder whether a manufacturer/network may jump in as well with funding if they want to hedge their bets and to give alternatives to straight android/iphone, presumably not anyone who's already committed to working with the firefoxOS for phones, but could be a possibility
<AlanBell> I don't think they can, on indegogo
<AlanBell> I think they are a bit screwed, you set up your target and go for it (not quite sure how a business is supposed to put 80k on a credit card either tbh)
<neuro_> very easily
<neuro_> find an exec with an amex centurion, sorted
<neuro_> but yeah, agree with the timescale thinh
<neuro_> thing
<neuro_> "hey boss, can we get 100 of these phones that we can't deploy until at least May, and that may or may not actually get made?" "sure, go ahead"
<neuro_> and if a carrier is interested, surely they just join the advisory council and stick their oar in?
<BigRedS> Laney: ah, '#include' isn't a commented-out include, then?
<mungbean> firefox has a knack of taking down my entire pc
<neuro_> remember, sabdfl said in the video, this is a test project to put a foot in the water before making millions
<neuro_> of phones
<BigRedS> I should probably read up on the syntax of this thing before editing it...
<neuro_> lol
<mungbean> maybe its to make people shut up
<Laney> BigRedS: nope, see C preprocessor syntax
<mungbean> so they can say "look we tried the phone thing but you guys didn't buy it"
<MartijnVdS> Laney: also, sudoers syntax
<neuro_> lol
<neuro_> big gamble if they got the money
<mungbean> too big a gamble
<mungbean> crowdsource the funding
<neuro_> "oh no, now we need to build these things?!"
<MooDoo> sheesh 70k refresh then 94k
<mungbean> if its not there then neither is teh market
<BigRedS> Laney: yeah, the missing space between the hash and the word 'include' just jumped out at me
<mungbean> what the biggest indiegogo raised before?
<ali1234> perhaps the idea is simply to see how many people will buy one without having to commit to anything
<mungbean> perhaps, nothing lost there
<MooDoo> wow this is going up fast
<neuro_> yeah cnet just posted about it
<MooDoo> that explains it
<neuro_> i think the record is The Oatmeal's Tesla Museum campaign
<neuro_> $1.37m
<ali1234> "Weâll choose the fastest available multi-core processor" - somehow i don't think an i7 will fit inside a phone
<MartijnVdS> .. or the battery
<MooDoo> blimey who put in $10k
<MartijnVdS> it's at $120 now
<neuro_> MooDoo: matt mullenweg of wordpress fame
<MooDoo> neuro_: yes just read it
<DJones> I was just looking to see who had done the $10K
<ali1234> does indiegogo accept bitcoin?
<ali1234> i'd stump up the $600 if they did
<ali1234> i can't justify spending that kind of real money on a phone though
 * neuro_ can
<neuro_> but it'll be a new iphone later this year
<MartijnVdS> I'm waiting for the next Nexus phone. Not switching to an alpha/beta phone os just yet
<neuro_> yeah same here
<neuro_> i need a phone that i know works, unfortunately
<popey> You know it dual boots? â»
<MartijnVdS> popey: during a call? ;)
<popey> hah
<popey> So you can boot to android or ubuntu
<neuro_> popey: no good for me, android isn't in my workflow, but yeah, that's a good point
<ali1234> that's kind of worrying. makes me think you know very well that ubuntu touch won't be usable
<mgdm> How about triple boots? Ubuntu, Android and FirefoxOS? :)
<ali1234> it should be able to run mer too
<ali1234> anything based on libhybris really
<neuro_> and no, they don't accept bitcoin
<neuro_> visa/mc/amex/discover/paypal
<ali1234> despite what everyone claims, they basically are all just shells on top of the android kernel
<neuro_> paypal only for non-USD
<neuro_> LINUX KERNEL
<ali1234> no, the linux kernel with the android patches which are not part of linux
<ali1234> otherwise known as the android kernel
<neuro_> which means it's a linux kernel with hw patches ;)
<ali1234> the hw stuff isn't in the kernel, it is proprietary blobs
<neuro_> you know what i mean ;)
<ali1234> the android patches have very little to do with hardware
<neuro_> but it's still the linux kernel, right?
<ali1234> partly
<brobostigon> wow, CM boots so quickly on my nexus7, flies. :)
<neuro_> the ubuntu kernel has patches
<neuro_> is that the Ubuntu Kernel?
<ali1234> yes
<BigRedS> yes
<neuro_> same with RH
<popey> yes
<popey> which is why we make a distinction between "ubuntu kernel" and "upstream kernel"
<popey> or "mainline kernel"
<popey> most other distros do the same
<ali1234> it's certainly not what you get if you go to kernel.org and clone linus' git repo
<neuro_> so you're saying they're not Linux then?
<ali1234> no
<ali1234> but they are the ubuntu, or android, or rh, or whatever kernel as well
 * popey notes neuro_ is in a particularly persnickety mood today
<ali1234> all of them are linux
<ali1234> none of them are each other
<ali1234> they are not equivalent so none of them can be exactly linux
<ali1234> yet they are all related to it
<neuro_> popey: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWdd6_ZxX8c
<popey> someone gave $1
<popey> \o/
<SuperMatt> awww
<MartijnVdS> http://dilbert.com/strips/comic/1995-06-24/ ?
<SuperMatt> fyi, it ha already done better than geary
<mgdm> MartijnVdS: I knew what strip that would be before I clicked \o/
<MartijnVdS> 18 years old that strip
<SuperMatt> and we're still superiour
<MartijnVdS> http://dilbert.com/strips/comic/1995-06-22/ :)
<bigcalm> Good afternoon peeps :)
<MartijnVdS> \o bigcalm
<bigcalm> Hey :)
<bigcalm> 30min call with Rackspace and it appears that I have the VPNs set up correctly. Just need to get this one device to play ball
<AlanBell> my daughter just came running in to show me the BBC article about the funding campaign on her mobile
<bigcalm> \o/
<bigcalm> AlanBell: you'll have to buy them for the kids now
<diddledan> ouch, 32 meelion dollars?!
<bigcalm> Do I really want to fork out Â£390 quid now for a handset that will be amazingly out dated by the time I get it next year?
 * bigcalm bites his nails in worry
<Prostetnic> http://pastie.org/private/f6qhlrd2foqmlgiy0tzxpa
<Prostetnic>  http://pastie.org/private/rl3cqtrkqd3wi0sp7cng
<Prostetnic> ^^ can anyone help with casper-rw persistence?
<DJones> Prostetnic: Please don't do that
<Prostetnic> On a multiboot live CD?
<Prostetnic> DJones, paste urls? double post? or ask questions?
<DJones> Prostetnic: Sorry, that was me only half reading, I saw the part at the top of the page & thought it was spam
<Prostetnic> Well I guess it was suspicious behaviour
<Prostetnic> |/
<bigcalm> With suspicious minds
<DJones> Prostetnic: No worries, it would fit some spammers patterns, apologies again
<DJones> Prostetnic: Probably better if you can give a bit more detail on the issue you're having and what you want to achieve
<Prostetnic> DJones, no problem at all. :)
<Prostetnic> I've setup a multiboot USB using grub2 as the bootloader
<Prostetnic> I've followed all the steps I can find online to get casper to actually do persistent boots
<Prostetnic> But no luck.
<Prostetnic> Thought I'd try a last ditch attempt to see if anyone here knew how to do so.
<Prostetnic> Hold on a sec and I'll find the guides I followed
<DJones> Must admit, its not something I've ever tried, do the iso's actually boot and is it just the persistance part thats not working
<Prostetnic> Yes
<Prostetnic> I suspect the persistence problem is that I've got the casper-rw file on the root of my usb
<DJones> I've only ever used pesistence after using usb creator to install an iso to the stick, which doesn't keep it as an iso
<Prostetnic> But it's mounting ISO files
<Prostetnic> Yes that's how I've used it in the past too
<Prostetnic> Unfortunately not really multiboot
<DJones> Is this something you've had a look at http://cafeninja.blogspot.co.uk/2012/01/multiboot-liveusb-multiple-iso.html
<Prostetnic> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/LiveCD/Persistence#Setting_Up_Your_USB_Stick
<Prostetnic> http://www.pendrivelinux.com/boot-multiple-iso-from-usb-via-grub2-using-linux/
<DJones> I was just looking at that one
<Prostetnic> ^^^ These are the 2 guides I've tried to use. Looking a yours now
<Prostetnic> Hmmm.... not sure about the extremely french and rather sales-y Multi boot live
<Prostetnic> Ach! I think I might give up for today. It's too hot for this nonsense.
<DJones> Maybe hang around for a bit, hopefully somebody else will be able to jump in with some advice
<Prostetnic> Sure :)
<diddledan> argh, canonical, why have you put me in this dilemma?!
<diddledan> I want. I want.
<diddledan> Wallet doesn't.
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: have popey buy it for you
<diddledan> popey, buy me an edge, please :-)
<diddledan> wait, I _CAN_ afford it - just need to sell my blackbook
<diddledan> \o/
<popey> â»
<MartijnVdS> Two crowdfunding things on one day though.. http://t.co/B4tVJfi7bb
<diddledan> *swear*
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: you can fund this one for $1 or $0 though if you want :)
<diddledan> I just accidentally clicked "pay"
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: for the phone?
<diddledan> yup
<TheOpenSourcerer> Am I late to the party: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQLe3iIMN7k
<diddledan> TheOpenSourcerer: I just bought one
<popey> neve rheard of subbable
<diddledan> just this second
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: saw that on G+ already ;)
<diddledan> it's at threee quarter's of a meelion already
<diddledan> not bad for day1
<MartijnVdS> it needs to do over 1M/day
<AlanBell> popey: so can we get a VAT receipt for an Ubuntu Edge?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Can't see it making $32m somehow...
<TheOpenSourcerer> AlanBell: My thoughts exactly
<MartijnVdS> I'm not going to convince anyone to spend $80k..
<MartijnVdS> AnyCorp
<AlanBell> with an avoidable 20% penalty in it
<directhex> it's not a purchase, so there's no VAT receipt
<AlanBell> indeed
<directhex> there's also no VAT per se
<AlanBell> but it is a sale, so canonical have to remit VAT
<MartijnVdS> it's an "investment"
<TheOpenSourcerer> lol
<AlanBell> nope, not an investment
<AlanBell> as far as I can make out, it is a gift for the giver, and a sale for the receiver in terms of VAT
<MartijnVdS> so what is it
<MartijnVdS> if it's not a sale
<AlanBell> it is a sale, but not a purchase
<MartijnVdS> ah
<AlanBell> we did fund the parallella thing without worrying about it too much, but that was a bit less money
<AlanBell> and it wasn't going to be a UK business on the other side of it
<AlanBell> so even if I thought Â£390 for a PAYG handset some time next year was a totally reasonable thing to take a punt on, I am not sure I want the admin pain
<TheOpenSourcerer> Like to see eclipse run on it ;-)
<popey> heh
<TheOpenSourcerer> Usably
<davmor2> TheOpenSourcerer: I'm sorry you believe eclipse is usable? :D trollololo
<TheOpenSourcerer> rimshot.
<TheOpenSourcerer> But will it blend?
<popey> wow, got to be dedicated to punt 500 odd quid and then blend it
<TheOpenSourcerer> s/dedicated/stupid
<davmor2> TheOpenSourcerer: I'll look forward to seeing your video blend it
<christel> oh i havent had my parallella thing yet.. it was supposed to ship around easter wasnt it?
<TheOpenSourcerer> AlanBell: This suggests to me it's a purchase:
<TheOpenSourcerer> What warranties apply to the Ubuntu Edge?
<TheOpenSourcerer> If you are not happy with the product, you may return it within 28 days of receiving it for a full refund. Please note, Canonical can not cover the cost of the return postage and packaging.
<AlanBell> christel: yeah, it hasn't yet though
<christel> aha
<AlanBell> TheOpenSourcerer: I don't think you can reclaim VAT on it though
<TheOpenSourcerer> Well, it's techncially a US sale so is exempt anyway?
<AlanBell> dunno, isle of man company, shipping locally to the UK
<TheOpenSourcerer> AH
<AlanBell> payment in dollars, to indegogo - are they the supplier?
<TheOpenSourcerer> http://www.indiegogo.com/about/terms
<TheOpenSourcerer> American terms.
<neuro_> well ... ubuntu edge is rattling away at about 208K an hour
<MartijnVdS> .. for now
<neuro_> well, yeah
<MartijnVdS> </cpt_buzzkill>
<neuro_> if the average goes < 43K, they're stuffed
<AlanBell> depends on the objectives
<neuro_> um
<neuro_> to get 32m within 31 days
<neuro_> it's a fixed funding campaign, reach total or fail
<neuro_> and it's not kickstarter, there are no stretch goals or whatever, it's do or die
<neuro_> veronica mars did 2.3m on their first day
<neuro_> and that's the most successful crowdfunding campaign ever (so far)
<neuro_> and they did ~ 7.3K an hour avg
<neuro_> http://www.kicktraq.com/projects/559914737/the-veronica-mars-movie-project/#chart-daily
<AlanBell> so, if the goal is to get articles on BBC, Guardian, Times, CNN, MSNBC, AlJazeera, RT about the product for free, then this might achieve that objective
<neuro_> that's not "the goal", though, that's just a means to the goal
<neuro_> and they're already on bbc: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-23402994
<neuro_> oh, and we have a royal sproglet
<MartijnVdS> you do now?
<neuro_> "we"
<AlanBell> a boy
<neuro_> i see bbc1 is now bbc news
<MartijnVdS> ah http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk-news/blog/2013/jul/22/royal-baby-kate-admitted-to-hospital-for-birth-live-coverage
<neuro_> the announcement has been sent from le hospital to le palace
<diddledan> may I spam my ebay link? :-p (I just finished listing my black macbook)
<neuro_> i'd say fire away and see if you get kicked ;)
<MartijnVdS> neuro_: Wait, they're French now?
<MartijnVdS> neuro_: don't you mean "aus dem Krankenhaus in den Palast" ?
<neuro_> this definition of "breaking news" ... BREAKING NEWS, BABY BORN FOUR HOURS AGO
<neuro_> and cnn is hassling my phone with the news now
<diddledan> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=321169932536 my black macbook is for sale! </kickbait :-p>
 * diddledan waits
<neuro_> (cue countdown music)
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: you should tidy your desk :)
<Azelphur> wow, core2duo for Â£500? macbooks really are overpriced
<Azelphur> XD
 * neuro_ oofts at the price also
<Azelphur> I paid Â£450 for my 11.3" i7 2.3ghz GT 650M laptop.
<neuro_> MartijnVdS: never mind the desk, the laptop needs a good clean :)
<diddledan> I'm not expecting to get the 500
<Azelphur> even the 300 seems crazy for a laptop of that spec
<Azelphur> I bought a similar specced lappy for my mum for Â£90
<Azelphur> although, not a macbook
<Azelphur> but then, I suppose you're paying for the brand.
<neuro_> ok, that was annoyiung
<neuro_> the bbc news app on my phone just sent me a notification about the sprog
<neuro_> and it played the first few bars of the bbc news theme when it did it
<Azelphur> in other news, there are people on the beach this evening with a bonfire
<Azelphur> why would you want to be hotter today?!?
<neuro_> cos they can cook stuff?
<ali1234> wah wah wah
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: some people don't think about their actions
 * Azelphur shrugs
<ali1234> are we nearly there yet?
<Azelphur> ali1234: nope
<neuro_> where
<MartijnVdS> where?
<ali1234> "there"
<diddledan> we've reached 5k off 1meelion
<neuro_> past
<neuro_> 1.003m
<AlanBell> http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/ubuntu-edge just punched through a million
<neuro_> in 4.75 hrs, not bad
<Azelphur> holy crap, canonical are making a phone :o
<popey> keep up Azelphur â»
<Azelphur> hehe
<mgdm> Hmm, to Bootstrap, or not to Boostrap
<mgdm> that is the question
<neuro_> twitter bootstrap?
<mgdm> neuro_: aye. Building a toy site, wondering if I use that, or go from scratch
<neuro_> do it
<mgdm> (it's going to need to be all responsive 'n' shiz, but I find bootstrap pretty heavy in terms of page weight)
<neuro_> i built a toy site for me and my mates, works a treat
<neuro_> min it
<neuro_> in fact it comes pre-min'd
<mgdm> I do wonder a bit about all those presentational classes in the markup
<mgdm> but I can probably get over that
<neuro_> haha, the dude who took the notice of the birth into the palace just totally mugged for the camera
<neuro_> i can't believe i'm sitting watching rolling news coverage of a gold covered easel
<Azelphur> saphire crystal displays o.O
<mgdm> neuro_: the name of the game today has been 'padding'
 * mgdm notes that $work are not opting for the 'breaking news' tag on the site for that story \o/
<neuro_> ooh, royal pres secretary is kinda cute
<Azelphur> this looks pretty awesome
<neuro_> mgdm: :)
<diddledan> Azelphur: buy it!
<Azelphur> diddledan: tempted :P
 * neuro_ is not tempted
<Azelphur> neuro_: why not?
<neuro_> a) i don't have the cash to hand yet (payday is friday)
<neuro_> b) i'm waiting for the next iphone
<Azelphur> lolphone :p
<neuro_> c) i don't like the idea of running a dev phone as "my" phone
<diddledan> iphone shmeyephone
<neuro_> um ok
<Azelphur> hmm, no warranty on a high end device?
<Azelphur> that's a little worrying
<neuro_> statutory warranty
<emorris> Hi, has anyone seen an issue on gedit in 12.04 where switching between tabs often doesn't cause content to be updated? Or does anyone know what this could be? I can't seem to find any relevant bugs.
<Azelphur> neuro_: dunno, I feel like forcing statuatory warranties if the product fails is a bit crazy
<Azelphur> if I buy a device like that and it dies, I expect to be able to swap it out without any fuss
<neuro_> wat?
<Azelphur> neuro_: statuatory warranty is the law in UK right?
<neuro_> variable
<Azelphur> I dunno, based on the FAQ it sounds like they're gonna be awkward about warranty replacements basically
<Azelphur> given that they say only 30 days
<neuro_> claim period EU-wide is 2 yrs
<neuro_> england, wales, NI is 5 yrs
<neuro_> oops, 6 yers
<neuro_> scotland is 5 yrs
<Azelphur> neuro_: 6 years, really?
<Azelphur> so if anything that I bought in UK breaks in 6 years, I can send it back legally?
<diddledan> Azelphur: only if it is due to poor workmanship or design
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: it's always poor design ;)
<diddledan> lol
<Azelphur> ah, basically difficult
<Azelphur> diddledan: I mean if I'm forking out for an expensive piece of hardware, I sorta expect to not be messed around if it's broken
<Azelphur> like when I bought a Â£120 gaming keyboard from Logitech and it was broken, they just sent me a new one straight away no hastle
<Azelphur> hassle*
<diddledan> yeah, it'ld be nice if canonical committed to an overproduction of 10% of unitcount or some such and use those for any warranty replacements - after 1 year they can auction off the remainder
<diddledan> failure rates are like a bathtub curve - high in the first couple of months then practically nonexistant until end-of-life
<diddledan> end of life, at which point it rockets back up again**
<Azelphur> yea, I think I'll pass on the edge for now, the warranty, "specifications are subject to change" and the 2014 release date all put me off.
<neuro_> http://sogahub.tradingstandards.gov.uk/sogaexplained
<neuro_> click on 3
<neuro_> The law says that a customer can approach you with a claim about an item they purchased from you for up to six years from the date of sale (five years after discovery of the problem in Scotland).
<neuro_> This does not mean that everything you sell has to last six years from the date of purchase! It is the time limit for the customer to make a claim about an item. During this period, you are legally required to deal with a customer who claims that their item does not conform to contract (is faulty ) and you must decide what would be the reasonable amount of time to expect the goods to last. A customer cannot hold you responsible for fair wear and
<neuro_> The six-year period is not the same as a guarantee, but it does mean that even where the guarantee or warranty supplied with the product has ended, your customer may still have legal rights.
<Azelphur> fun
<neuro_> BBC, pfffft
<neuro_> "if you are just tuning in, let us bring you up to date with the latest news ..."
<neuro_> yes, if you are UNABLE TO READ the huge red banner saying ROYAL BABY BOY
<mgdm> 'some bird has calved'
<neuro_> lol
<neuro_> "population(earth)++"
<neuro_> oh good
<neuro_> dave's making a statement
<diddledan> wait, royal baby boy? you mean succession still carries on through male heirs?!
<diddledan> I thought the whole point of changing the rules was so that kate could have a girl!
<neuro_> your attempt at humour is confusing
<neuro_> wow, bbc one have just completely dumped the schedule
<neuro_> julia bradbury will be well annoyed
<neuro_> her new health show thing is supposed to be on now
<czajkowski> Laney: popey https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-vNXi52cReYk/Ue14Bu1U46I/AAAAAAAAU9A/XLKwbkRdvYc/w400-h300-no/1.gif
<Laney> hahaha
<czajkowski> Laney: popey http://femour.com/26-baby-animals-that-need-to-check-themselves-very-funny-gifs/#sthash.WM9UbJx7.dpbs
<Laney> i feel like that about potatoes
<czajkowski> <3 #3 :)
<neuro_> http://images.wikia.com/uncyclopedia/images/c/cd/PoTaToes.gif
<Laney> here comes the storm
<DJones> Just saw this on twitter, The baby might be out, but the Australians have asked for the umpire to review the decision
<brobostigon> lol.
<mgdm> EDONTGETIT
<mgdm> though, cricket, at a guess?
<bigcalm> Laney: Gimmie storm, don't hog
<ali1234> it's stopped now
<brobostigon> still going on here, rain and thunder etc,
<mungbean> we're due in middle of night
<bigcalm> I love how Chromium forgets how to load youtube videos until refresh has been hit a few times
<mungbean> Â£1.3M already, well i was wrong
<mungbean> maybe they should extend the $600 phone offer
<popey> that's not happening
<ali1234> popey: is your prototype just an empty shell like ogra's?
<mungbean> this is what i've been up to: http://i.imgur.com/NL3Oorf.jpg
<mgdm> nice
<mgdm> that's the first kit I ever built
<mungbean> :D
<mungbean> this one had over 50 tiny decals to apply
<mungbean> finished another on the same day http://i.imgur.com/FnDEnEG.jpg
<mgdm> ooh, I did a Mustang too, though it was silver and blue
<mgdm> and I didn't have an airbrush so it looked a little sketchy :D
<popey> ali1234: didnt know ogra had one
<mungbean> mgdm: you should take it up again :)
<ali1234> oh sorry it was a reshare... like jono's :)
<mgdm> mungbean: I've been considering it - I think the Saturn V might look quite good in the corner of the room beside the telly :D
<popey> yeah, it's an engineering prototype
<ali1234> you know the more i think about this the more i think it might be successful
<ali1234> i mean the N900 sold like hot cakes
<mgdm> neuro_: It has been September for 20 years, nearly: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eternal_September :-)
<neuro_> Y U TELL ME DIS
<neuro_> I NOES DIS
<mgdm> I figured you were one of the few people I know who might understand (I am aware of the concept but I was 10 in 1993 and didn't have interwubs)
<neuro_> dear god
<neuro_> i think i already had an account on arbornet by then
<neuro_> i was in 2nd year of college, but i kept sneaking into gla uni to meet up with mates and do net stuff in the labs
<neuro_> we had no JANET in anniesland :(
<mgdm> oooh, I have graph search
<neuro_> do you have the new feed yet?
<neuro_> hmm i has graph search too
<neuro_> haha
<neuro_> "My friends who like Android"
<neuro_> unfriend, unfriend, unfriend, unfriend ...
<neuro_> wow, this isn't creepy-capable at all ... "My single female friends who have interests similar to mine"
<mgdm> we had a talk at Whisky Web about how graph search works, it was quite interesting
<neuro_> constructed purely by refining search from the drop downs
<mgdm> and, yes, that's rather worrying
<neuro_> "Likes The Stig Â· You like The Stig"
<neuro_> ok
<neuro_> thanks friendface
<neuro_> annoyingly, the "13 of [your] friends have made the switch" to the new newsfeed are bloody facebook employees
<neuro_> apart from a couple of randoms, no idea how they got it
<mgdm> hehe
 * neuro_ shakes fist
<neuro_> *CORY* ....
<ali1234> doesn't facebook release a new newsfeed every 2 months?
<neuro_> this is the new super magic one
<neuro_> https://www.facebook.com/about/newsfeed
<mgdm> that looks like Twitter cards
<ali1234> hahaha it looks exactly like google plus did 2 months ago
<neuro_> i don't know what's worse ... having the Facebook VP of Mobile Engineering on my friends list, or knowing he can make a better meatball sandwich than me
<neuro_> ali1234: as has that, it just hasn't been rolled out to all fb users yet
<ali1234> yeah copying g+ isn't going to convince me to switch
<ali1234> nobody i know uses facebook
<neuro_> you know me
<neuro_> well, at least in an internet way
<neuro_> i can't stand g+, it's way too noisy
<neuro_> and awful to look at
<neuro_> that two column thing drives me batty
<neuro_> oh good, front pages
<neuro_> express "IT'S A BOY"
<neuro_> the star "IT'S A BOY"
<neuro_> guardian "A birth, a boy, a prince, a king"
 * mgdm prodded the Republican button earlier on
<neuro_> :)
<neuro_> wow, news at ten is actually showing Other News
<neuro_> nope, back to baby
<neuro_> there was a cracking one from the reporter out in Kate's home town (Buckleby)
<neuro_> he was saying families were letting their kids stay up late to "see their local girl give birth"
<neuro_> um, "see"?
<neuro_> was there a private ustream feed that we missed? :)
<mgdm> *shudder*
<bigcalm> Anybody know how to force a dhcp lease to expire in open-wrt?
<MattJ> neuro_, I think it was you who recommended Synology?
<neuro_> tangentially, yeah
<MattJ> Someone did
<neuro_> i think i pointed at them rather than recommended
<MattJ> You'll be pleased to know that I bought one, and decided to abandon my self-build :)
<neuro_> i'll probably be buying my first one on friday
<neuro_> haha cool :)
<neuro_> i mean there's merit to self build to learn how to do stuff
<MattJ> and I'm not regretting it, it's much better than I hoped
<neuro_> but sometimes we just want stuff to Work
<neuro_> i get paid to be a sysadmin, but not 24/7 ;)
<MattJ> :)
<neuro_> says the guy sitting beside two ESXi servers
<neuro_> two NASes
<neuro_> three laptops
<neuro_> a netbook
<neuro_> a desktop
<neuro_> and a partridge in a gigabit switch
<neuro_> and that's just in this room
 * MattJ looks at the 1U under his desk
<MattJ> Well it doesn't quite fit
<neuro_> awww
<neuro_> there are 1U NASes
<neuro_> if you're prepared to burn a credit card or two
<MattJ> Yeah, not quite prepared to go that far :)
<neuro_> me either ;)
<ali1234> i wonder how stupid i need to act on facebook to make everyone unfriend me
<ali1234> considering the quality of my newsfeed i suspect the answer is "incredibly"
<neuro_> like things like the BNP, Islam, KKK and Fox News
<ali1234> haha
<neuro_> should clear out most people in minutes
<ali1234> sadly no
<ali1234> that would get most of them
<ali1234> but there's a few that regularly post stuff like that
<neuro_> well if you like Islam as well ...
<neuro_> and maybe a gay pride page or something
<ali1234> the trouble with that is... if i make it too obvious that i'm trying to be offensive, people would realise it
<neuro_> you'd get shot of everyone pro and anti gay, racism, bigotry ...
<neuro_> stick in a like for The Fratellis and that'll be everyone
<ali1234> but if i post both sides, people will think i'm being fair and balanced or something
<neuro_> hehe
<ali1234> or posting one side as "look how stuypid this is"
<neuro_> like the stupid stuff first
<neuro_> then unlike them a week later
<neuro_> then like the sensible stuff
<ali1234> i think i need to go more subtle than that
<neuro_> then a week later do the fratellis
<neuro_> stage it
<neuro_> the short answer is just remove your account, wait for it to be completely deleted, then create a new one
<ali1234> i can't do that
<ali1234> i only have an account because i have to admin a page
<neuro_> you can
<neuro_> i think the answer is you won't do that :)
<ali1234> if i didn't require a facebook account to do that i would just delete it and never go back
<neuro_> why not hand the reins to someone else?
<neuro_> or create a "that page only" account?
<ali1234> too much work
<ali1234> it was bad enough setting up the developer API once
<bigcalm> I have a LAN of 192.168.1.0/32. There is one device on the network that I need to give the IP address of 192.168.5.1. Efforts so far have failed. How can I do this?
<ali1234> our website has "login with your facebook account"
<ali1234> this is a right pain in the ass to configure
<neuro_> bigcalm: "need to"?
<ali1234> i can't really hand it over to someone else because i am the only one who knows anything about computers :/
<neuro_> lol
<bigcalm> neuro_: need to, it's what the VPN provides
<ali1234> bigcalm: going to need a network diagram....
<neuro_> make router vpn endpoint
<bigcalm> It is
<neuro_> use 192.168.5.1 as vpn route link subnet
<neuro_> route traffic to/from lan /24 using routing table
<neuro_> sorted
<bigcalm> Don't understand these things :(
<neuro_> which is why your question is the wrong question to ask
<neuro_> your lan should be doing default gw via router
<neuro_> router should route traffic to vpn
<neuro_> lan will route via router routing table
<neuro_> you were talking about this the other day
<neuro_> can't remember if you said 192.168.5 is a /24 or just a vpn subnet or what
<neuro_> like are all the things that need to be reached via vpn in a 192.168.5/24 subnet?
<neuro_> or is it just a route to Other Stuff
<jpds> bigcalm: Giving something an IP address has nothing to do with routing.
<neuro_> that
<neuro_> actually, if you were using pfsense, you could just set up a filter rule to push all traffic from a specific IP or IPs on your LAN via the VPN interface rather than the default egress interface
<bigcalm> I shall draw something to try and explain this
<neuro_> oh no :)
<jpds> bigcalm: Does your machine already have an IP address?
<popey> looks like it'll hit 2 million before today is out
<neuro_> blikmeh
<neuro_> s/k//
<neuro_> hmm at current rate, maybe :)
<neuro_> more like 1.8m-ish
<neuro_> which is still bloody incredible
<neuro_> interesting that 39 people thought "nah, i don't want to save $230, i want to give canonical MOAR MONEY" and bought the non-one-day-only pledge
<ali1234> i would sign up if there was some way i could pay in bitcoin, but bitcoin + paypal = hell no
<neuro_> looks like funkyhat is having vm problems
<neuro_> i don't understand this obsession with bitcoin, frankly ;)
<ali1234> that's because you don't have any
<neuro_> nor do i need any
<neuro_> not sure what the problem is about using "real" money
<ali1234> you don't "need" a million yen either, but you wouldn't say no to it either
<ali1234> the problem with using "real" money is i don't have any
<neuro_> i'll wager the yen fluctuates less than the bitcoin
<neuro_> so sell your bitcoins
<ali1234> that's what i'm trying to do!
<neuro_> lol
<ali1234> i could sell bitcoins for paypal and then use that to pay indiegogo
<neuro_> i thought there was an exchange that could pay out bitcoins to cash using some barclays app thingy
<ali1234> however paypal are highly likely to freeze the account if it gets refunded
<ali1234> because i only opened it an hour ago
<neuro_> yeah, this all sounds much better than using money :)
<ali1234> it's much better
<neuro_> clearly
<ali1234> notice that the problems happen as soon as "real" money is onvolved
<neuro_> for you
<neuro_> if i had enough in the bank, i could just use my visa debit card, or indeed my existing paypal acct
<ali1234> converting bitcoin to USD is easy, it's going the other way that is difficult
<neuro_> if i wanted to use up a credit card, i could do that too
<neuro_> i think you got a bit muddled there
<neuro_> unless you meant to say "bitcoins -> cash = easy, cash -> bitcoins = hard"
<neuro_> in which case, what's the prob? :)
<ali1234> the problem is there's a 99% chance that the campaign won't be successful, then i'll have $600 stuck in paypal
<neuro_> oh i see
<ali1234> since paypal isn;t a real bank, no protections
<ali1234> since i got the $600 by selling bitcoin, they'll probably freeze it for 6 months
<neuro_> then just wait until they break the funding amount
<ali1234> yeah
<ali1234> or even just wait until next may and just buy one normally like a normal person and get a proper warranty and stuff
<neuro_> um
<popey> they're not going to be sold outside the indiegogo campaign
<neuro_> wat
<neuro_> exactly
<ali1234> wat indeed
<ali1234> so there will only ever be 40,000 of them?
<neuro_> did you not actually *read* the thing?
<neuro_> "The Ubuntu Edge project aims to do the same for the mobile phone industry -- to provide a low-volume, high-technology platform, crowdfunded by enthusiasts and mobile computing professionals."
<neuro_> key bit is "low-volume"
<neuro_> can someone layeth the smackethdown on mr (or ms/mrs) funkyhat? :)
<ali1234> that is not specified on the indiegogo page
<neuro_> eh?
<neuro_> it's in the first paragraph
<ali1234> nowhere on the indiegogo page does it say "this device will not be available outside this campaign"
<neuro_> scroll down to "About our project"
<neuro_> with the photo of photos
<neuro_> "The Ubuntu Edge is an exclusive production run, available only through Indiegogo."
<ali1234> ah, fair enough
<neuro_> lol
<neuro_> daftie :)
<ali1234> well, that's interesting
<ali1234> makes the whole thing even weirder i think
<ali1234> i mean why go to the trouble of designing a phone and then only ever make 40000 of them?
<neuro_> you need to read that page again ;)
<ali1234> no wonder the thing is so expensive
<neuro_> it's really not
<neuro_> for what you're getting
<ali1234> er... yes it is
<neuro_> wat
<bigcalm> I don't know if this makes anything clearer: http://discworld.cuth.eu/dump/a_thing.jpg
<ali1234> $800 for a phone?
<neuro_> that's about right
<neuro_> for a 4-5" screen smartphone
<neuro_> with quad core cpu, 4GB RAM, 128GB storage
<neuro_> GSM, UMTS, HSPA, LTE
<popey> sapphire glass...
<neuro_> the htc one is only about 50 quid cheaper
<neuro_> with a quarter of the storage
<popey> the memory and the glass are significant costs in the BOM
<neuro_> sounds right
<popey> and we're not making any profit on this
<neuro_> and htc one has half of the ram
<ali1234> so am i to assume that it will be delivered with 14.04?
<popey> that would be reasonable
<ali1234> and therefore it will receive updates (image updates that actually fix phone stuff) for 5 years?
<diddledan> 1.75mill
<popey> dunno if touch is "LTS" or not
<popey> good question
<ali1234> in any case, even if canonical does not ever make another phone, somebody else will
<ali1234> if they don't, then i've lost nothing anyway, because nobody is going to make apps for a phone that only has a market of 40000
<neuro_> if you just want a phone with Ubuntu on it, just buy a nexus 4 and shove touch onto it
<ali1234> i want a phone with ubuntu on it that has apps
<neuro_> and my suggestion is non-useful because?
<bigcalm> neuro_: is my photo any more informative?
<ali1234> there is no value in ubuntu touch as it currently is because there is no software for it
<neuro_> bigcalm: sorry, i loaded it up then got distracted by shiny
<neuro_> hang on
<bigcalm> Thanks :)
<neuro_> so web server lives in a rackspace cloud
<neuro_> i don't necessarily understand the "only traffic from 192.168.5.1" bit though
<neuro_> are you saying the web server *only* accepts http connections from 192.168.5.1?
<neuro_> (ps, s/visa-versa/vice versa/)
<bigcalm> Not at this stage. Part of the web server may be moved to its own machine, but for now it's sitting on a otherwise public system
<bigcalm> We need traffic from the X4 to go to the web server via the VPN
<ali1234> which machine is the VPN server? which machines run VPN clients?
<neuro_> set a static route on the adsl router to route traffic to 162.13... via 192.168.5.1
<neuro_> simples
<bigcalm> And from the web server to the X4 via the VPN
<neuro_> wat?
<neuro_> no
<ali1234> if you do that, the ADSL router will route the packets over the default route (to the internet) where your ISP will immediately drop them because they are in the private IP range
<neuro_> hang on
<neuro_> brain is farting, i obviously need food
<bigcalm> According to both Rackspace and the ADSL router, the VPN is working between the firewall and the ADSL router. It's now a matter of routing traffic around
<neuro_> yeah i guess you could put a 192.168.1.0/24 route on the other end to point back via it's vpn endpoint
<neuro_> if the router is/was NATting the traffic over the vpn connection, which it might do, then all the 192.168.1/24 traffic would appear to come from 192.168.5.1 anyway
<ali1234> define "working" pls
<ali1234> what network address is the VPN using?
<bigcalm> I need to be able to, from the web server, make a call to 192.168.5.1
<neuro_> ok, that's new
<ali1234> the diagram is missing most of the useful information :(
<bigcalm> One moment
<bigcalm> http://discworld.cuth.eu/dump/another_thing.png
<ali1234> whaaaat
<bigcalm> That is a screen shot from the ADSL router of the VPN connected
<neuro_> thought the adsl was 212...something
<ali1234> so the firewall is the VPN server?
<bigcalm> Its public IP is
<bigcalm> Yes
<ali1234> or does it forward the connection?
<neuro_> right, sorry
<neuro_> misread
<ali1234> so 162 isn't a public IP addrss, it a VPN IP address...
<bigcalm> It is also a public IP address
<bigcalm> As I say, things might get moved around
<ali1234> you have bought that whole range?
<bigcalm> We asked Rackspace to set up a VPN, they gave us this
<ali1234> you will have to set up static routes on every machine so that they know how to reach 192.168.5.1
<neuro_> no
<bigcalm> It's one machine
<neuro_> no, no, no, no
<ali1234> yes
<neuro_> PUT ROUTE ON ADSL ROUTER
<ali1234> at the very least on the webserver, the firewall, and the ADSL router
<neuro_> if the router is natting over the vpn tunnel, then no
<ali1234> you will also have to put a static route on 192.168.5.1 so that it knows how to get to the VPN
<ali1234> if you only put the route on the ADSL router the packets will get to the webserver and the replies will be dropped by the webserver
<ali1234> alternatively the ADSL router will NAT them and send them over the internet and then the webserver will drop them
<ali1234> if the firewall doesn't drop them first
<neuro_> http://db.tt/MJI37HNq
<neuro_> it's sideways for some reason :P
<ali1234> that makes even less sense
<ali1234> that will just send the packets from 192.168.5.1 back to 192.168.5.1
<neuro_> it is genuinely unclear to me where this 5.1 IP is coming from
<bigcalm> On the web server, I just did tracepath 192.168.5.1   While viewing the live view of another_thing.png, I saw packets being sent and received
<ali1234> it's the X4 machine
<ali1234> it's a second subnet behind the ADSL router
<neuro_> bigcalm: is that right?
<ali1234> which is something the ADSL router's NAT almost certainly can't cope with
<neuro_> i thought it was the link subnet on the vpn tunnel
<ali1234> no, that is the 162...
<neuro_> wat
<ali1234> hang on let ME draw a diagram
<neuro_> no, that's a /32 on the other end
<bigcalm> neuro_: your diagram is a better representation of my text :)
<neuro_>  /32 is not a link subnet
<ali1234> it's not on the other end, it's the VPN subnet
<neuro_> bigcalm: it's a living ... ;)
<ali1234> anything attached to the VPN is going to have a 162 address
<neuro_> so it's an endpoint address
<neuro_> not a link subnet
<neuro_> bigcalm: what kind of router is it you have (can't believe i didn't ask sooner)
<neuro_> make and model pls
<bigcalm> neuro_: DrayTek Vigor2710
<neuro_> thought it looked draytekish
<neuro_> right, explain the 192.168.5.1 IP please
<ali1234> yes
<bigcalm> We will eventually have multiple locations, each with an ADSL connection and each with a 192.168.5.x address.
<bigcalm> This is so that we can send data to them rather that public IP addresses
<bigcalm> And any data sent from the sites will come via the VPN as well
<bigcalm> There is an irritation with the set-up as one company will be installing the ADSL routers and setting up the VPN connections while another company will be installing the X4 devices which are the only devices to actually use the VPNs
<bigcalm> We had hoped to have the VPN terminate on the X4s themselves, but apparently we can't have that
<neuro_> ok, here's the manual if you don't have it already
<neuro_> http://www.draytek.co.uk/support/userguides/Vigor2710%20User%20Guide%20V1.0.zip
<bigcalm> Ta
<neuro_> on page 147 there is an option to add a static route to "direct all traffic destined to this Remote Network IP Address/Remote Network Mask through the VPN connection"
<neuro_> it would also be interesting to know if the VPN is configured to NAT or Route
<neuro_> if NAT, this is easy; if Route, this is tricky
<neuro_> if NAT then in theory the VPN traffic on the other end would appear to come from the VPN firewall
<neuro_> and you'd just need to set rules on the web server to only accept traffic from the VPN firewall IP
<bigcalm> We need it so that only the X4 can send via the VPN, thus I thought that I needed to assign 192.168.5.1 to it
<neuro_> how would the web server know what 192.168.5.1 is?
<bigcalm> Yes, the last part of locking down part of the web server to VPN originating traffic will be relatively simple
<neuro_> think about it
<bigcalm> I have been informed by the Rackspace netsec guy that the source IP address will be 192.168.5.1
<neuro_> right, in that case
<neuro_> may i respectfully suggest you continue the conversation with Rackspace netsec guy, who appears to know more about their VPN firewall than any of us do ;)
<bigcalm> As I said above, I did a tracepath to 192.168.5.1 from the web server and I saw traffic on the VPN connection on the ADSL router
<neuro_> right, so the traffic is tunneling out and being presented on an RFC IP
<bigcalm> I did have a 30 min phone call with them today and I thought that I had got it all correct
<neuro_> so it's a nat connection
<neuro_> so you need to tell your X4 whatever that is to route to web server public IP via the vpn
<neuro_> and the best place for that really is the draytek, but i'm not sure how granular you can make the routing
<neuro_> from the manual is seems to be all or nothing
<ali1234> if the draytek does NAT
<neuro_> in theory it doesn't matter
<ali1234> how will the webserver connect to a machine behind that NAT?
<neuro_> cos the remote end seems to be NATing anyway
<ali1234> this makes no seeeeeeeeense
<ali1234> i'm out
<neuro_> you're aware that these things are stateful, right?
<ali1234> yes
<ali1234> so when you've just switched it on and there is no state and you go to the webserver and type "ping 192.168.5.1" where does it send packets?
<neuro_> IP_1:12345 -> router_1:whatever -> router_2:whatever -> IP_2:80
<neuro_> then IP_2 says to router_2 "hey send these back the way they came"
<neuro_> and so on back down the chain
<bigcalm> It's bi-directional. The web server needs to make RESTful calls to the X4 as well
<ali1234> and when IP_2 tries to connect to IP_1, what happens?
<neuro_> there's likely a route on the web server that says "hey, 192.168.5.1/whatever is routed via the VPN guy, awesome"
<ali1234> right
<neuro_> ali1234: the IP_1/2 thing was a hypothetical intended to discuss stateful firewalls
<ali1234> so as i said, you need a static router on the webserver
<ali1234> route*
<neuro_> no nonononononononononononononoo
<neuro_> there already IS one by all accounts
<ali1234> this does not change the fact that it is needed
<neuro_> 23:48 <bigcalm> As I said above, I did a tracepath to 192.168.5.1 from the web server and I saw traffic on the VPN connection on the ADSL router
<neuro_> stop confusing things
<bigcalm> Me?
<neuro_> no, ali1234 :)
<bigcalm> Okay
<bigcalm> This is how the ADSL router is configured for the VPN http://discworld.cuth.eu/dump/a_third_thing.png
<ali1234> so assuming the webserver has that static route, and it sends the packet for 192.168.5.1, how does the firewall decide which of the possibly multiple VPN end points it needs to send the packet to?
<neuro_> because it's authenticating
<neuro_> 192.168.5.1 is the dsl router
<neuro_> and i note it's 192.168.5.1/32
<neuro_> so it's a single IP endpoint
<bigcalm> Yes
<neuro_> soooooo i will assume that on both ends, the connections are NATted
<ali1234> i see
<ali1234> it's a point to point link
<neuro_> so in theory, a PAT rule on the VPN interface on the DSL router would suffice
<bigcalm> If there were to be more than one device behind the ADSL router that needed to use the VPN, then a subnet would need to be used. But as there is only ever going to be 1 device, we can use a single subnet for the 1st 254 locations
<neuro_> 192.168.5.1:whatever -> 192.168.1.whatever:whatever
<ali1234> yes
<neuro_> and then site 2 would probably get 192.168.5.2, etc
<bigcalm> That's already been set-up. I just need to get .1 working 1st :)
<ali1234> also it's not 192.168.5.1/32
<ali1234> it's /0
 * neuro_ gives up
<ali1234> this is clearly specified in the screenshot, 192.168.5.1, network mask 255.255.255.255
<neuro_> which = /32
<bigcalm> :(
<ali1234> oh yeah, my bad
<neuro_> yeah, don't mind me, i only do this for a living :)
<ali1234> suddenly everything makes sense
<bigcalm> \o/
<bigcalm> I just tried to click an option in the screen shot :|
<neuro_> i wouldn't futz with it
<bigcalm> Yeah, so the VPN "works"
<neuro_> hang on a sec
<neuro_> let me try to get into work vigor
<bigcalm> Thank you :)
<neuro_> ssh tunnel tomfoolery ahoy
<neuro_> password remembered \o/
<neuro_> hmm
<neuro_> vpn doesn't show up as a target interface for PAT
<neuro_> at least on our config
<neuro_> but then again we don't have a vpn rigged for NAT
<neuro_> i'd be interested to see if you change the TCP/IP Network Settings > From first subnet to remote network, you have to do [route / NAT] dropdown from Route to NAT
<neuro_> s/see/see what happened/
<neuro_> on that VPN >> LAN to LAN page
<neuro_> for profile 1
<neuro_> then look at NAT >> Address Mapping to see if you can select the VPN as a target interface for PAT ...
<bigcalm> I'm a little confused now. Terms I'm not used to
<neuro_> PAT = port forwarding
<bigcalm> I can see the drop down to change from Route to NAT, that's a start :)
<bigcalm> Oh, okay
<neuro_> if you're able to set port forwarding rules on the router on the VPN interface, then you can let the web server talk back to the X4
<bigcalm> Do I need to do anything with RIP Directions?
<bigcalm> -s
<neuro_> nooooo
<bigcalm> Okay :)
<neuro_> i'd suggest not making any more changes just now however
<neuro_> i'm about to go watch some DS9 then go to bed
<bigcalm> Heh
<neuro_> because i thought it was half ten when in fact it's after midnight
<neuro_> if you're not bothered about the rest of the LAN being able to talk to the web server IP, this is in theory doable
<bigcalm> I would _really_ welcome more help tomorrow. Very greatful for the time/info spent tonight
<neuro_> if the draytek can do inbound port forwarding over the vpn interface
<neuro_> yeah no worries :)
<bigcalm> I hear that the company will hire a network guy at some point, but right now I feel that I've been dropped in it a little
<bigcalm> Wow, tis late
<neuro_> aye :P
<bigcalm> Sleep becomes him
<neuro_> good plan :)
<neuro_> tootles all!
<bigcalm> Night peeps
#ubuntu-uk 2013-07-23
<BigRedS> bigcalm: "the company will hire a network guy at some point" ; I wouldn't hold your breath
<jpds> Everyone needs to know a bit about networking.
<BigRedS> yeah, but just enough that it's dangerous to not have a network guy around to supervise
<czajkowski> BigRedS: bingo
<AlanBell> morning
<AlanBell> looks like the phone thingie is 10% of the way to the goal, which is kinda impressive
<TheOpenSourcerer> The first $3m was the $600 phone though. Now it's $830... Bet it slows down.
<AlanBell> they would have to have a fundraising profile unlike any other crowdfunding event to hit the target still
<ali1234> current 2-hour projction says 67%
<ali1234> that's still very achievable if there is a big spike at the end, which there probably will be if it looks like getting close
<ali1234> i wonder how many preorders jolla got
<diplo> Morning all
<directhex> ali1234, i can't find a kicktraq equivalent for indiegogo
<ali1234> directhex: apparently they have a stats api. someone is pulling it and mirroring to U1
<ali1234> and also generating the projection
<ali1234> i don't know how it works but i am using this:
<ali1234> watch -n 300 'echo -n "   Current:" ; wget -O - -o /dev/null http://ubuntuone.com/2woYdw7S6lUssuio7Jr69P | tail -n 1 | cut -d, -f2 ; echo -n "Projection: " ; wget -O - -o /dev/null http://ubuntuone.com/3KsmEumWq4td3vbHjSUQJS'
<arc__> what is the linux mint channel on the irc
<ali1234> #linuxmint
<arc__> ok cuz i just put #mint
<arc__> thanz
<Laney> oh my god
<Laney> this storm
<Laney> MooDoo: tell me you're here!
<christel> storm?!
<christel> it is A LOVELY DAY
<christel> (again)
<Laney> http://www.raintoday.co.uk/
<Laney> 5041 out of 5000 claimed
<DJones> !mint | arc__
<lubotu3> arc__: Linux Mint is not a supported derivative of Ubuntu. Please seek support in #linuxmint-help on irc.spotchat.org
<Laney> how did that happen?
<DJones> arc__: The official support channel for mint is on a different network to freenode, see lubotu3's info
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<BigRedS> Goood Morning!
<brobostigon> morning BigRedS
<arc__> is it normal for the startup disk creator to lag/hang on (90-98%)
<arc__> for 10mins +
<bigcalm> I'm guessing you've opted to create user space
<bigcalm> Oh, never mind then :)
<neuro_> ali1234: where did you get those u1 urls from?
<ali1234> found them on g+
<neuro_> ah k
<ali1234> https://plus.google.com/108243663090085262773/posts/irW4n4abMs8
<neuro_> haha
<neuro_> that's no api
<neuro_> that's aq doing a spot of scraping :)
<ali1234> no the comments
<neuro_> yeah, they're scraping, indiegogo doesn't have a public API
<neuro_> notice tim using BeautifulSoup
<mungbean> someone should add a plugin for supybot
<JamesTait> Good morning all, happy Sweet Child O' Mine Day! :-D
<neuro_> wat?
<JamesTait> neuro_, daysoftheyear.com has Hot Dog Day, which I thought was rubbish, so I trawled the archives and apparently Guns 'n' Roses launched Sweet Child O' Mine on this day in 1988.
<neuro_> um, no
<neuro_> Appetite for Destruction came out on 21st July 1987
<neuro_> Sweet Child o'Mine was released as a single on 17th August 1988
<mungbean> oh i thought we were celebrating the royal prince!
<neuro_> ha
<bigcalm> Humf
<JamesTait> mungbean, maybe you're getting confused with Purple Rain?
<neuro_> how could you confuse purple rain with babies?
<JamesTait> neuro_, Purple Rain, by Prince. Tenuous, admittedly.
<neuro_> yeah, i got that, i just didn't want to acknowledge such an awful pun :)
<JamesTait> neuro_, I misrepresented the significance of the day - Sweet Child entered the Billboard Top 40 on this day in 1988.  Apparently.
<neuro_> *how*?
<JamesTait> Source: http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/guns-n-roses-make-popular-breakthrough-with-quotsweet-child-o-minequot
<mungbean> my baby was was born on 3.14 pi day, and the royal baby was born on 22/7 which is pi approximation day
<mungbean> its fate...
<ali1234> they should name him Thor
<ali1234> because how awesome would it be to have King Thor?
<neuro_> (note: kingly name not necessarily related to princely name)
<brobostigon> or arthur? lol.
<mungbean> ubuntu phone made the bbc
<JamesTait> Now *that's* news. :)
<neuro_> yesterday
<mungbean> did i dream that they called him george?
<neuro_> yup
<JamesTait> Tyler, I heard.
<neuro_> lol
<mungbean> well they edited it today
<mungbean> "As of Tuesday morning, the Ubuntu Edge phone had attracted just over $3,295,000 worth of pledges, but the terms of the campaign mean Canonical does not receive the cash unless it hits its target."
<neuro_> i can barely read bbc tech news these days
<neuro_> every article assumes you're an idiot
<neuro_> and there are often mistakes
<JamesTait> $3.3m now. The $600 ones are sold out.
<mungbean> it was next to a story "beyonce gets hair caught in a fan"
<JamesTait> Poor fan.
<neuro_> lol
<JamesTait> I mean, what was she doing to the poor person to get her hair stuck in them?
<mungbean> 5043/5000>1
<ali1234> hah, it's still going up?
<mungbean> oooh another 10k funder
<ali1234> bbc article should be good for another half million i guess
<ali1234> otoh it was posted yesterday
<mungbean> how many phones is that
<mungbean> 600
<ali1234> hmm RS has a free next day delivery offer
<ali1234> anyone else get the email just now?
<ali1234> is this even a change or are they just emailing to remind me they still exist?
<mungbean> i accidentally clicked "fork" on github. how can i remove it?
<mungbean> got it
<neuro_> lol
<mungbean> We wanted to let you know that Amazon.co.uk has introduced a Â£10 minimum spend to qualify for Free Super Saver Delivery in a number of product categories, effective 23 July 2013.
<neuro_> wat
<mungbean> Orders that include books, DVDs, Blu-rays, music, video games and software products continue to qualify for Free Super Saver Delivery with no minimum spend threshold. So whether itâs a new release CD for Â£7 or a bestselling book for Â£5, youâll continue to receive Free Super Saver Delivery on millions of items regardless of the amount you spend. In fact, you will continue to enjoy Free Super Saver Delivery on all orders that include these 
<mungbean> sucks
<dwatkins> ah, that's what that mail from Amazon Prime was about
<mungbean> because argos etc will probably follow suit
<dwatkins> Argos do free delivery?
<mungbean> i bougt a small item t'other day with free delivery
<dwatkins> that was the straw which broke the camel's back, clearly
<ali1234> find the shop on amazon and then buy from their own website
<ali1234> then amazon don't get any money
<mungbean> with modelzone in administration, my local model shop closing for council enforced refurb, i have nowhere to buy models cheaply
<BigRedS> The only stuffy I buy from Amazon is stuff actually sold by Amazon
<BigRedS> else I figure I might as well just use Ebay
<ali1234> i would rather pay more and buy it somewhere else
<mungbean> yeah, i wish there was a button to click "NO 3rd PARTY"
<BigRedS> mungbean: you can select "amazon.co.uk" out of the "sold by" list, but only once you've picked a category
<mungbean> handy
<BigRedS> ali1234: i keep meaning to, but Somewhere Else keeps being worse than Amazon
<mungbean> i found a new retailer but their stock is not as diverse
<neuro_> oh good, ovh / kimsufi's internal network has been compromised
<mungbean> who?
<neuro_> http://status.ovh.net/?do=details&id=5070
<neuro_> french dedicated server host
<mungbean> oh
<neuro_> they "assume" the person got their european customer database
<neuro_> name, ovh nic, contact details, encrypted+salted password
<ali1234> there's a lot of this going around at the moment
<neuro_> i know
<neuro_> worrying, isn't it
<ali1234> school holidays?
<neuro_> ha
<ali1234> i am not particularly worried by it
<SuperMatt> I think there might be some bugs in saucy right now
<mungbean> must be the weather SuperMatt
<SuperMatt> /usr/share/lightdm/greeters is now /usr/share/xgreeters, but the lightdm confs haven't been updated to reflect it
<SuperMatt> could be
<SuperMatt> but it's driving me up the wall
<SuperMatt> I've had to boot back in to osx
<ali1234> symlink it and forget about it?
<SuperMatt> yeeeaaah, that's not the only issue
<SuperMatt> the dm won't start up, claiming it can't find any x screens
<ali1234> surely that's intentional?
<SuperMatt> I shouldn't have thought so
<ali1234> just imagine if you had a choice between this, or 12.04
<SuperMatt> ugg no, I couldn't use 12.04
<mungbean> all my machines are 12.04
<SuperMatt> it all depends on requirement
<SuperMatt> and preference
<mungbean> 3 are running elementary PPA though
<mungbean> only one has unity (and not for long)
<JamesTait> Potentially interesting graph: http://webnumbr.com/ubuntu-edge-funding
<neuro_> potentially interesting because it doesn't work? :)
<bigcalm> A page that never loads, nice
<neuro_> oh, here we go
<neuro_> oof, sharp tail after 4am
<mungbean> how dare people go to bed
<bigcalm> I guess I didn't leave it long enough. My loss
 * neuro_ hears thunder outside
<neuro_> oh joy
<bigcalm> Was a nice storm, hope your power stays put
<neuro_> i've had two power cuts in my nearly 13 years living here
<neuro_> neither due to storms
<bigcalm> Work me and Hayley up at 5am, terrible night sleep after that when we eventually got to sleep
<neuro_> haven't seen any flashes through the window yet
<neuro_> but it's definitely getting closer
<bigcalm> Are you counting elephants?
<neuro_> HAVEN'T seen flashes yet :)
<mgdm> I've seen them, but I have headphones on so can't hear the thunder :-)
<bigcalm> s/Are/Will
<neuro_> good shout, choons
<mgdm> there's another one
<mgdm> neuro_: you at home or in Embra?
<neuro_> home
<neuro_> 9 secs from you saying "there's one" to me hearing it
<mungbean> that page never loads for me
<neuro_> which means it's between us :)
<neuro_> my office window faces northish
<neuro_> rumblerumble
<neuro_> !!
<neuro_> !!
<mgdm> the one I"m looking at faces south
<neuro_> wait, you're in glesga, aye?
<neuro_> or embra?
<MartijnVdS> https://subbable.com/crashcourse is doing better :P
<mgdm> neuro_: aye, glesga
<mgdm> neuro_: beside the Squinty
<neuro_> aye
<neuro_> i always found it funny that stv and the beeb planted themselves right next to each other
<mgdm> We were here first \o/ (as I understand it)
<neuro_> :)
<mgdm> and there was an effort to make a 'digital media quarter' down here (so says the sign)
<neuro_> "beat it, ya publicly funded bawbags!"
<neuro_> yeah
<mgdm> Capital FM are between us and the Beeb
<neuro_> pff
<neuro_> at some point i want rock radio to turn a tx towards cumbernauld
<mgdm> oh aye
<neuro_> a legacy from Q96
<neuro_> and sometimes the feed on tunein doesn't work right, so i end up listening to the manchester variant
<neuro_> weird hearing the same music then some random ad for a manc cab company
<neuro_> wow, thunder really kicking off now
<davmor2> Morning all
<neuro_> eeyoop
<Dave2> I got a bit wet when cycling in
<Dave2> Only a little bit, though, and it was refreshing
<davmor2> neuro_: you can't blag me with your fake yorkshire accent, get ye back to Scotland ;)
<neuro_> davmor2: dammit, busted :)
<ali1234> has anyone read feersum endjinn?
<ali1234> i read on some message board that the character bascule is supposed to have a scottish accent (he writes everything phonetically) but he always sounded more cockney to me
<SuperMatt> woo! I have my display server back
<SuperMatt> looks like the root of the issue was down to my box not installing the lastest kernel correctly
<SuperMatt> that was a lot hairier than it needed to be
<DJones> Can somebody let me know what my quit/exit reason was a minute or two ago, just wondering whether I was on the wrong side of a netsplit or whether I timed out
<TheOpenSourcerer> (11:59:46) DJones left the room (quit: Changing host).
<bigcalm> And just before that: * DJones has quit (*.net *.split)
<DJones> Ah, thanks, that would explain it
<DJones> netsplits yay
<oourrf> hi
<oourrf> how i can print to the same line in python?
<MartijnVdS> print "the same line"
<neuro_> lol
<oourrf> instead
<oourrf> 1
<oourrf> 1
<oourrf> 1
<MartijnVdS> oourrf: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/493386/how-to-print-in-python-without-newline-or-space
<MartijnVdS> oourrf: google is your friend
<oourrf> google hate me
<neuro_> gotta love hotukdeals.com sending out a deal in their newsletter today that expired 2 days ago
<mungbean> anyone got experience with modules package rather than sourcing .sh scripts?
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: like dkms?
<mungbean> no, like modulefiles
<mungbean> The  modulefiles  are  added  to  and  removed  from  the  current  environment  by the user.  The environment changes contained in a modulefile can be summarized  through  the  module  command  as well.
<MartijnVdS> kernel modules?
<mungbean> environment settings
<mungbean> man module
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: a TCL thing?
<mungbean> yeah
<mungbean> http://modules.sourceforge.net/
<neuro_> hmm, that's the second delicious password reset request notification i've had in the last hour
<neuro_> breaking news, royal baby to be called Linus
<popey> Morning all
<neuro_> why aye
<mgdm> 'lo popey
<neuro_> blimeh, another air crash in US last night
<neuro_> southwest 737 nose wheel failure on landing at la guardia
<MartijnVdS> neuro_: not "Steve"?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Why not "The Edge"
<TheOpenSourcerer> See what I did there?
<neuro_> actually, it's going to be called Susan
<mungbean> what would it cost (very approx) to send a box from derby->london , not very heavy but maybe approaching tv sized box
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: "Kevin"
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: so he'd be "King Kevin I"
<TheOpenSourcerer> mungbean: I used to have an account with Parceforce. UK Mainland 48hr up to about 40Kg was Â£8 IIRC.
<mungbean> wow
<mungbean> pretty good
<TheOpenSourcerer> My wife has used these before: http://www.parcel2go.com
<popey> yeah, i have used p2g before, but there is a local boxes etc type place and they said dont use p2g, they'll undercut them every time
<mungbean> trying to negotiate a sale on gumtree of loose items
<mungbean> ^sale^purchase
<mungbean> its a bargain but i don't wanna drive 3+ hours type bargain
<mungbean> parcelforce looks cheaper
<xnox> Laney: lastpass is confusing, tried to use to update a site to a random password generated by it, it well submitted the form but didn't store the new password in lastpass =(
<xnox> Laney: oh noes, all is fine it did save it!
<Myrtti> ugh, I just OD'd on salmiakki
<TheOpenSourcerer> Salty Liquorice or the booze?
<mungbean> so as ballpark figure, we need to see 1,000 phones in the $830 range per day getting sold?
<marxjohnson> mungbean: that's about right
<TheOpenSourcerer> they aren't going up very quickly now.
<mungbean> 283 since 7am
<MartijnVdS> no enterprise bundles yet
<mungbean> plus the regret effect where someone is cheesed off about not getting the first 5000, so waits a few days
<Myrtti> TheOpenSourcerer: the candy
<marxjohnson> Going to be interesting how Canonical play it, whether they're planning to let it run or there'll be periodic marketing pushes
<mungbean> what's the story with the new elite game?
<marxjohnson> mungbean: in dev I think
<marxjohnson> http://elite.frontier.co.uk/
<marxjohnson> "out 2014"
<mungbean> best game ever
<marxjohnson> better if they were doing a Linux port!
<mungbean> ah, i was wondering why i didn't contirbute
<mungbean> oolite gives my fix
<mungbean> and my computer is 5yrs old
<ali1234> david braben is like the george lucas of video games
<popey> haha
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: who's the jarjar of the elite universe then?
<ali1234> the people funding "elite 4: this time we really mean it"
<MartijnVdS> "Meesa stupid!"
<ali1234> i kid.
<ali1234> but it's like when he was young and had people around him to say "that's rubbish, don't do that" - that's when he did all his best work
<ali1234> now he's old and rich and gets his own way... most of it isn't great
<ali1234> also i might be confusing some of his work with peter molyneux
<mungbean> or bono
<mungbean> a multiplayer elite needed to be done
<ali1234> it's called eve
<ali1234> it's a lot less fun than you would imagine
<mungbean> i've heard of eve but didn't know that
<mungbean> hence branding tends to do well
<mungbean> single player elite is awesome anywy
<ali1234> the only thing eve doesn't have is dogfighting
<mungbean> especially with the oolite extensions
<ali1234> it has literally everything else
<mungbean> do you shoot people in eve or not though/
<ali1234> sure
<ali1234> but you fly with the mouse
<ali1234> and dogfighting is inneffective
<ali1234> combat is about strength in numbers and staying at the most effective range
<mungbean> i spend most my time hunting lone traders and scooping up their cargo
<ali1234> you cannot solo in eve
<ivanka> yo aquarius
<ali1234> you will be killed immediately
<mungbean> :(
<aquarius> heya ivanka
<ali1234> i mean within 5 minutes of entering any sector where combat is allowed
<mungbean> doesn't scale to MMO then
<ali1234> yes, that is the problem
<ivanka> aquarius, did you make an indicator to track ubuntu edge?
 * ivanka ivanka wantss
<ali1234> a game where you can choose to be a pirate doesn't work as an MMO except for a certain type of player
<davmor2> ivanka: he did
<ivanka> schoolgirl error
 * ivanka wants
<ivanka> aquarius, how do I install it?
<MartijnVdS> ivanka: he posted about it on G+
<ali1234> because *everyone* wants to be a pirate - and if they don't, they're just constantly getting killed by pirates
<aquarius> ivanka, I did. :) https://plus.google.com/u/0/108243663090085262773/posts/irW4n4abMs8 -- techie instructions, I'm afraid.
<ivanka> have to go to meeting, will install later :-)
<aquarius> ivanka, download that script, then "python name-you-downloaded-it-as.py" in a terminal...
<ivanka> cheers!
<davmor2> ivanka: oh I thought you were turning slowly into Golum
<ivanka> davmor2 :-)
<ivanka> brb
<ali1234> so what they did was split the world into "empire" and "anything goes" - and in empire everyone afk mines all day, in the rest of space it's 100% PvP in throwaway ships
<ali1234> on the borders at least. in deep null sec it's locked down by corps, which are player clans/guilds/ or whatever. 50% of the map is owned by goonfleet who are basically pro griefers
<mungbean> 55phones/hour req'd
<mungbean> well, between 45-55
<mungbean> MMO sounds boring
<mungbean> might as well go to work
<ali1234> it is. it is like having a job
<ali1234> the game is also known as "spreadsheets in space"
<mungbean> including the commute
<mungbean> in other news i got my phi coprocessors up and running
<ali1234> i look forward to seeing how elite 4 solves these problems but i can't see it happening
<mungbean> hard to understand the benchmarks though
<ali1234> what is a phi coprocssor?
<mungbean> a coprocessor made by intel with lots of cores
<mungbean> but not cuda
<MartijnVdS> numa?
<ali1234> is that like the kinght's corner stuff?
<mungbean> regular x86 code
<mungbean> ali1234: yes, the new version
<mgdm> mungbean: what are you using it for (out of noseyness)?
<mungbean> research
<ali1234> cool
<mungbean> i have 2 servers with 2 cards each
<ali1234> i didn't know you could actually buy that stuff
<mungbean> they cost around Â£2.5-3k per card
<ali1234> i thought it was still prototype
<mungbean> i haz pics
<mungbean> they released in march i think
<MartijnVdS> but will they run emacs?
<mungbean> yes
<mungbean> they run linux
<mungbean> you can ssh to the card
<MartijnVdS> do they blend?
<ali1234> hmm
<ali1234> you don't just get X amount of CPUs in one system?
<mungbean> its complicated
<ali1234> :(
<mungbean> you can offload jobs
<mungbean> its not that complicatied
<mungbean> but you can compile native code, or offload
<mungbean> hold on , i'll find the info
<mungbean> agh, my u1 still broken
<ali1234> my code is using pool.multiprocessing still
<ali1234> that means it just shells n pythons and then collates the results
<mungbean> http://i.imgur.com/FjNMRcA.jpg
<mungbean> need 100+ threads, and vectorisation
<mungbean> this is usually a 1u server, but 1u is the co-pros too
<ali1234> threads *and* vectorisation?
<ali1234> it's SIMD?
<mungbean> http://software.intel.com/en-us/articles/is-the-intel-xeon-phi-coprocessor-right-for-me
<ali1234> "no"
<mungbean> Rather than traditional narrow MMX, SSE or AVX vector capabilities, the IntelÂ® Xeon Phiâ¢ coprocessor is equipped with uniquely-wide 512-bit SIMD vectors
<ali1234> i don't know if i could benefit from that or not
<ali1234> maybe if numpy ever supports it
<ali1234> my problem is i'm doing blind deconvolution by a brute force approach, using heuristics to skip certain "obviously wrong" answers
<ali1234> but those heuristics also make vectorization impossible
<ali1234> well, probably not impossible. just too hard for me
<mungbean> also need intel compiler 2013 afai see
<ali1234> yeah that's no good. i want to type "cat /proc/cpuinfo" and have 200 cores
<mungbean> 240 cores ;)
<ali1234> yeah, that :)
<mungbean> i did
<mungbean> as i say, ssh mic0
<mungbean> runs linux
<ali1234> and i can run 240 pythons and they all run full speed?
<ali1234> that's all i really need :)
<mungbean> give me some code and i'll test
<ali1234> well the code is on github
<mungbean> you can scp stuff to the cards, or p2p the cards
<ali1234> but the data set is like 4GB
<mungbean> don't have python on the card
<ali1234> i suppose it's only a matter of time though...
<mungbean> i could install a portable python in /home
<mungbean> but native compiled code code is prob best way
<ali1234> numpy is native compiled... it's even MMX optimized
<ali1234> i'm sure one day someone will do a phi version too
<mungbean> http://software.intel.com/en-us/forums/topic/392736
<ali1234> http://software.intel.com/en-us/articles/numpyscipy-with-intel-mkl
<mungbean> this cookie law became the single most anything thing to happen to the internet in years
<mungbean> especially on mobiles
<SuperMatt> it did?
<SuperMatt> Did I miss that?
<mungbean> about a year ago
<mungbean> every site i visit shows a massive overlay on mobile usually
<SuperMatt> oh, you said anything, you meant annoying
<SuperMatt> yes, I agree
<mungbean> yes
<BigRedS> haha, I read that as 'annoying' first time round
<BigRedS> found SuperMatt quite confusing
<SuperMatt> I'm a confusing guy, tbh
<mungbean> new option appeared on the phone page
<mungbean> double edge $1400
<popey> indeed
<popey> stay tuned â»
<mungbean> mungbean	maybe they should extend the $600 phone offer	20:59
<mungbean> popey	that's not happening
<mungbean> strictly true but...
<popey> â»
<mungbean> cheeky pope
<mungbean> y
<popey> no, i was truthful
<mungbean> you were
<mungbean> maybe all hpones should be etched/numbered
 * popey summons powers
<davmor2> popey: Austin is there wow get his autograph..... Doctor evil too he won't be far behind
<popey> who?
<davmor2> popey: Austin Powers/Doctor Evil
<popey> oh
<davmor2> popey: you said summons powers
<bigcalm> Gold Member and Fat Bastard as well
<popey> yes, i get it
<davmor2> popey: man that is bad jetlag or you need moar sleepz
<popey> no, just not a funny joke :Ã¾
<davmor2> popey: man harsh ;)
<Laney> wow
<Laney> this is a lot of rain
<MartijnVdS> times you need to start being scared:
<MartijnVdS> * When someone from Britain thinks an amount of rain is "a lot"
<Laney> it looks like someone is pouring a bucket of water over the window constantly
<Laney> i had to turn the light on because it got so dark
<Laney> wtf, now I'm getting wet at my desk half way across the room
 * Laney shuts the window
<shauno> heh, I got hit by a low-flying carwash earlier too.  quite refreshing
<ivanka> aquarius, are you still online?
<aquarius> ivanka-train, I am
<MartijnVdS> ivanka-train: finally out of the meeting? :)
<ivanka-train> MartijnVdS, :-)
<ivanka-train> aquarius, so, this script, I am on 13.04
<aquarius> ivanka-train, as am I
<ivanka-train> aquarius, okay, that's good, was checking
<aquarius> ivanka-train, so that's not the reason it doesn't work ;) There will likely be other reasons ;)
<aquarius> not gonna catch me upgrading to a development release just yet!
 * ivanka-train is going in
<ivanka-train> anything to stop with the refresh!
<aquarius> ...to a tunnel? :)
 * aquarius laughs
<aquarius> ivanka-train, so, I can talk you through how to run it, if that's helpful?
<ivanka-train> aquarius, yes - I have got as far as downloading it
<aquarius> ivanka-train, OK. Do you know where you downloaded it to?
<aquarius> (the browser does not always make it very clear!)
<ivanka-train> aquarius, looking at it now, it is in downloads
<aquarius> ivanka-train, OK. Start a Terminal, and do: python ~/Downloads/ubuntu-edge-indicator.py
<ivanka-train> aquarius, that is a good question though, not sure I know the path
<aquarius> your Downloads folder should be ~/Downloads -- the ~ here is a shorthand for "your home folder".
<aquarius> stop me if I'm being incredibly condescending, here.
<ivanka-train> aquarius, you are not. carry on
<aquarius> Condescending: that means "to talk down to someone in a patronising way" ;-)
 * ivanka-train flips aquarius the bird
<aquarius> OK. So, if you try the above command in a Terminal, you *should* get a new indicator in the Unity menu bar.
<aquarius> alternatively, you may get some sort of error.
<ivanka-train> aquarius, it's like magic!
<MartijnVdS> aquarius: add that to your job title: "Wizard"
<aquarius> ivanka-train, it works?
<ivanka-train> aquarius, it works, yes!
<ivanka-train> aquarius, you rounded up to much, I want the detail
<ivanka-train> aquarius, can I file a bug? Put in a change request?
<aquarius> you can put in a change request by asking me for something. :)
<aquarius> I have a bunch of people on G+ who are all "make a bzr branch" and "add custom icons" and I have had to explain that 20 minute hacks don't get proper tech support ;)
<MartijnVdS> aquarius: but it's open source, you have obligations!
<aquarius> ivanka-train, you will, sadly, need to re-run the script every time you restart.
<ivanka-train> I don't know how the rest of your users feel, but I like the big long number
<ivanka-train> aquarius, I can handle that
<ivanka-train> I hardly ever restart :-)
<aquarius> nice.
<aquarius> also, you can't close the Terminal that you started it from. :)
<MartijnVdS> you can move it to another virtual desktop to hide it though
<MartijnVdS> or minimize it
<ivanka-train> aquarius, good job you told me that!
<ivanka-train> MartijnVdS, so that's what virtual desktops are useful for!
<aquarius> ivanka-train, the big long number...I don't have, for two reasons. The first, and most venial reason, is that it takes up too much room on the menu bar. The second, which is more important, is that the number only updates every 5 minutes (so as to not hammer the indiegogo people too hard), and that's really obvious if you have the full amount; if you only have $3.55m then it's not as obvious. :)
<MartijnVdS> ivanka-train: that, and windows full of scrolling web server logs ;)
<aquarius> ivanka-train, if starting the thing manually every time you restart seems really annoying, which it is, you *should* be able to add a new Startup Application -- Startup Applications is in the Dash, and the "command" that you put in the new Application that you add is "python /home/ivanka/Downloads/ubuntu-edge-indicator.py" (note that you can't use the ~ shorthand here).
<ivanka-train> aquarius, ack (as they say on the internet)
<ivanka-train> aquarius, that ack was to the reasons no long number
<ivanka-train> I will investigate the other when not on the train
<aquarius> ivanka-train, yep; if you're online when you investigate and get stuck, let me know and I can talk you through it.
<aquarius> ivanka-train, stuff like that would be, of course, handled for you if this were a real project rather than a 20 minute hack ;)
<ivanka-train> :-)
<aquarius> now I have to go eat dinner before the cauliflower cheese burns to an absolute crisp
<aquarius> ivanka-train, let me know if you run into further problems...
<ivanka-train> will do
<ivanka-train> bon apetit
<diddledan> phoo where's this rain we were supposed to get today?!
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: Laney's place
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: he got bucketloads of it
<diddledan> hmm
<aquarius> that was excellent. Not burned at all. Well done Stuart the Masterchef.
<MartijnVdS> aquarius: .. next on 'Come Dine With Me'?
<aquarius> MartijnVdS, well, that's why I've been learning to cook this year.
<aquarius> um. To be clear, I've been learning to cook so I can eat nice food, not so I get on telly ;)
<MartijnVdS> aquarius: suuure :P
<Azelphur> hey folks, got a USB bluetooth adapter, works fine in my laptop (13.04) doesn't work on my desktop (13.10)
<Azelphur> dmesg on my laptop says it loads btusb to drive it, pc does not.
<Azelphur> any ideas?
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: are you plugging it into a hub or in a port on the machine itself?
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: USB2 port or USB3 (blue) port/
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: do other USB devices work in the port?
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: I've tried it in two different ports, it was on my internal USB port, which it has worked on before, other usb devices work fine in both ports.
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: so.. is it USB1/2 or USB3?
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: does it show up in lsusb?
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: 2/3
<Azelphur> yes it shows up in lsusb
<MartijnVdS> so it's a blue port/
<MartijnVdS> try a black one
<MartijnVdS> (this sounds smurfist, I know)
<Azelphur> black port, same results.
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: hcitool de
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: hcitool dev
<MartijnVdS> does that show anything?>
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: that's what I'm using to define if it's working or not, nothing in there.
<Azelphur> (but when I use it on my laptop, it shows up in there)
<MartijnVdS> are you sure it's not the laptop's internal bt thingy/
<MartijnVdS> ?
<Azelphur> yes, my laptop doesn't have 2 internal bluetooths ;)
<MartijnVdS> blueteeth* :P
<Azelphur> hehe
<Azelphur> this adapter also did used to work on 12.10
<MartijnVdS> I don't know then.. maybe some kind of rfkill thing? does dmesg say anything at all?
<Azelphur> http://pastebin.com/XY5KSFBz
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: dmesg -T gives nicer timestamps ;)
<Azelphur> fun
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: lsmod | grep btusb ?
<Azelphur> btusb                  22474  0  || bluetooth             238521  12 bnep,btusb,rfcomm
<MartijnVdS> so it's loaded
<MartijnVdS> StrÃ¤nge!
<Azelphur> I did manually modprobe it to see if that solved it, it didn't.
<MartijnVdS> you could diff the lsusb -vvv entries
<MartijnVdS> from the laptop & desktop
<MartijnVdS> see if there's anything different
<MartijnVdS> does it work if you boot with it plugged in, instead of plugging it in afterwards?
<MartijnVdS> (you never know..)
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: nope, it was on internal, so it's always plugged in on boot ;)
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: no differences in lsusb -vvv
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: anything in syslog anywhere?
<Azelphur> short of bus and device, anyway
<MartijnVdS> yeah but that's sort of always the case
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: nothing I can see really, the laptop does lots of bluetoothd stuff indicating it worked, I guess
<Azelphur> while the PC does not.
<MartijnVdS> I'm afraid I don't know
<Azelphur> any idea where I could go for assistance? seems like a regression
<Azelphur> and these are the $2 ebay adapters that half the planet has, so it's gonna cause problems ;)
<MartijnVdS> I'd file a bug: ubuntu-bug linux
<MartijnVdS> get a $3 one from the local store
<MartijnVdS> well Â£3
<Azelphur> hehe
<Azelphur> I think I have another one actually, wonder if that ones alive.
 * MartijnVdS will be getting this tomorrow: http://www.dell.com/ed/business/p/dell-u2913wm/pd
<Azelphur> this one works
<Azelphur> \o/
<Azelphur> this has to be a regression :p
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: maybe the serial number of 00000000 has something to do with it not working?
 * Azelphur shrugs
<Azelphur> still a regression, as I say, works on 13.04, doesn't work on 13.10
<MartijnVdS> ubuntu-bug linux
<Azelphur> yup, ubuntu-bugging linux
<MartijnVdS> but.. a 21:9 computer screen
<MartijnVdS> that's going to be SWEET ;)
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: Problem in linux-image-3.10.0-2-generic, The problem cannot be reported: This is not an official Ubuntu package. Please remove any third party package and try again.
<Azelphur> o.O
<MartijnVdS> yeah they're up to 4 now
<MartijnVdS> -4
<MartijnVdS> or -5 even
<MartijnVdS> that said.. I need to reboot & upgrade my bios
<Azelphur> oh, so I should update and reboot and try again?
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: probably
<Azelphur> righto
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: and if it still doesn't work, ubuntu-bug
<Azelphur> I'll attack that one a bit later then :)
<MartijnVdS> <- back
<MartijnVdS> somehow, Gigabyte main boards can't remember settings across bios upgrades, even if you store those settings in a file before upgrading
<MartijnVdS> (and then re-load it)
<Azelphur> anyone recommend something I can use to recover a busted exFAT partition?
<Azelphur> my next fun mission of the day :)
<Azelphur> this was a gopro that fell off a motorbike, I did manage to dd the partition without any errors though, so I'm hopeful something is there ;)
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: have you installed the exfat FUSE bits?
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: this is a live cd
<MartijnVdS> exfat-fuse - read and write exFAT driver for FUSE
<MartijnVdS> exfat-utils - utilities to create, check, label and dump exFAT filesystem
<Azelphur> so dunno
<mgdm> Azelphur: testdisk might get files off it?
<MartijnVdS> ^ those 2 can probably help with basics
<Azelphur> I'll install them both
<Azelphur> mgdm: cool, will try that :)
<mgdm> it goes through filesystems and looks for files, and pulls those, but ignores directory entries so you don't get filenames
<mgdm> often that doesn't matter
<Azelphur> indeed
<Azelphur> I assume I can run that against the dd image?
<Azelphur> (don't wanna do any more damage to the physical drive)
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: you can
<Azelphur> cool :)
<mgdm> Azelphur: aye, that's the recommended way
<Azelphur> figured it would be :)
<Azelphur> hmm, seems mount is playing up
<Azelphur> http://pastebin.com/LKGSN82z any ideas on this?
<Azelphur> no such file or directory my ass :P
<Azelphur> hmm, I found out why, the image is empty, wtf lol
<AlanBell> o/ victorp
<AlanBell> victorp: so, is there someone on the project who understands the VAT question for B2B sales?
<mfraz74_> AlanBell: has no one given a definite answer yet?
<Azelphur> mgdm: hmm, it's asking me what partition table type, I'm not 100% sure but gparted says it's msdos, which isn't listed as an option.
<diddledan> Azelphur: msdos partition table is also more correctly known as the MBR style
<diddledan> MBR = Master Boot Record
<Azelphur> found out it auto detects and suggests, so I went with it's suggestion
<diddledan> what's ubuntu like on retina screens these days? (macbook pro 13")
<diddledan> last I tried it on here everything was too teeny
<diddledan> I would need it to 2x the retina and not 2x the external display
<Laney> ohhhhhhh alice morgan
<diddledan> so who's still awake?! :-p
<shauno> at this hour?
<diddledan> shauno: I didn't think you did late nights anymore - you said you'd got old or some such excuse
<shauno> this isn't late :/
<diddledan> lol
<shauno> I'm trying to find the right googlefu to figure out why my kerbals seem to pass out / turn into ragdolls / explode
#ubuntu-uk 2013-07-24
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<MartijnVdS> hi brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning MartijnVdS
<MooDoo> morning all
<MartijnVdS> \o MooDoo
<diplo> Morning all
<mungbean> i appeared to have accidentally drawn a picture of popey while prolifically doodling
<mungbean> want to see it?
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: time to put it online ;)
<mungbean> http://i.imgur.com/RD9Tfbf.jpg
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: surprised popey even
<mungbean> any resemblance to characters living or dead is entirely coincidental
<MartijnVdS> Wheeeee
<MartijnVdS>    2560x1080      60.0*+
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<MooDoo> morning bigcalm
<MartijnVdS> http://martijn.vandestreek.net/~martijn/screenshot-huge.png
<bigcalm> That's a rather wide screen
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: it is :)
<MartijnVdS> 21:9
<mungbean> i have that but with a bezel inbetween
<mungbean> cos i have 2 monitors :D
<MartijnVdS> I don't like bezels
<mungbean> and actually it is 2560x1024 10:4 on mine
<AlanBell> nice MartijnVdS
<AlanBell> is that a strandbeast on the beach?
<MartijnVdS> no
<MartijnVdS> just a some people walking
<ivanka> hi MartijnVdS
<ivanka> MartijnVdS, you know yesterday you said you look at website logs - does this mean you might know someone who is good at making wordpress sites run fast?
<ivanka> hello Daviey
<MartijnVdS> ivanka: not really, sorry
<ivanka> MartijnVdS, okie dokes
<neuro_> lol
<MartijnVdS> neuro_: you know how to speed up wordpress?
<neuro_> yup
<MartijnVdS> ivanka, neuro_; neuro_, ivanka 8-)
<neuro_> haha
<neuro_> long winded introduction and conversation unnecessary
<neuro_> ivanka: http://wordpress.org/plugins/w3-total-cache/
<MartijnVdS> neuro_: "Reducing downward times!"
<neuro_> indeed
<BigRedS> neuro_, ivanka, we reccomend WP Super Cache. I've not yet been interested enough to know why we'd recommend that over something else
<JamesTait> Good morning all, happy Kitchen Debate Day! :-D
<MooDoo> morning JamesTait
<MartijnVdS> JamesTait: Kitchen Debate Day?
<JamesTait> MooDoo, o/
<MartijnVdS> Wut?
<JamesTait> MartijnVdS, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kitchen_Debate
<MartijnVdS> ah, so it's not a discussion about what's for lunch
<MooDoo> salad for me :)
<mgdm> something to do with 24/7 ?
<mgdm> oh, /me scrolls
<mungbean> gumtree appears to be a site for chavs and chancers in life
<MooDoo> mungbean: don't go on it then ;)
<mungbean> but it haz the stuff ebay doesn't have :(
<mungbean> = deals
<MooDoo> then be a chav or a chancer in life ;)
<mungbean> or unsuccessful at both
<mungbean> i've never successfully made a purchase
<davmor2> Morning all
 * davmor2 randomly prods czajkowski just cause
 * MartijnVdS deploys an infinite number of parachutes, just cause 2
<MooDoo> davmor2: you being brave again this morning?
<davmor2> MooDoo: It's a go day to be me.  Well for now at any rate, so I'm making the most of it by annoying czajkowski it just seemed like the thing to do :)
<czajkowski> davmor2: boo
<MooDoo> davmor2: awww leave the poor lass alone :)
 * davmor2 prods Moodoo instead
<MooDoo> davmor2: oi i'm not your abuse pole
<davmor2> MooDoo: I'll go back to czajkowski then and stop complaining :P
<MooDoo> yes boss
<davmor2> so czajkowski how's life hows the new hens and is piripiri still putting them in their place?
<czajkowski> so nugget is missing a chunk of feathers around her tail
<czajkowski> but they seem to be a bit better today
<MooDoo> czajkowski: getting snowed with eggs yet?
<czajkowski> nope
<czajkowski> had 1 a day so far since they arrived
<czajkowski> not sure from which ones and it could take some time to settle after the move
<CALAV3R4> I have 32 GB of RAM on a Server .... does anyone know how to go about the swap? 64GB and 32GB swap seems to much... any suggestions?
<MooDoo> is it's normally about 2/3x the amount of ram?
<MooDoo> then again it depends on what the server is doing
<CALAV3R4> MooDoo, thank you... we really don't want any swapping but just in case.
<MooDoo> yw!
<mungbean> what's the best way for tab completion for favourite hostnames?
<directhex> CALAV3R4, swap is not useful to you.
<directhex> CALAV3R4, you don't want to suspend your server to disk, so that's not useful
<SuperMatt> mungbean: it should automatically tab complete if it's in /etc/hosts or ~/.ssh/config
<mungbean> .ssh/config it is then, cheers
<SuperMatt> np
<SuperMatt> .ssh/config is your friend
<mungbean> (they are in DNS otherwise)
<directhex> CALAV3R4, and by the time your server has swapped 32 or 64 or whatever gig of stuff out, it would have been faster to drive to the datacenter and press reboot, than wait for it to become responsive again under swap death conditions like that
<SuperMatt> I've got mine set up detailing usernames, aliases, identity file to use, etc
<SuperMatt> very handy
<directhex> the old rules for swap size are only relevant for desktop/laptops, due to suspend to disk. even desktop/laptops have too much ram now for swapping to be helpful for actual "extra memory" reasons
<mungbean> i should def do that, i've been lazy
<SuperMatt> so I just type ssh live and I'm on my live server
<SuperMatt> once you've done it once, of course, you need only add to it over time
<mungbean> where's the man page?
<mungbean> same as ssh_config?
<mungbean> ~/.ssh/config This is the per-user configuration file.  The format of this file is described above.
<mungbean> looks like it
<SuperMatt> yup
<MartijnVdS> New Computerphile video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6bDA5FK6gs
<Laney> haha
<Laney> these are all academics / students in the nottingham CS school
<MartijnVdS> Laney: yeah, they are :)
<MartijnVdS> Laney: some people from a local hackerspace, it seems
<Laney> don't know why they haven't talked to anyone from the FP / theory group yet :(
<MartijnVdS> Laney: ask Brady :)
<ivanka> hey MartijnVdS, BigRedS and neuro_ I was in a meeting...I will check it out and get back to you. It's not for me directly, it is for my husband and it is potentially a paid gig
<neuro_> ah, ok
<neuro_> wp total cache definitely solves a lot of the constantly-dynamic issues that wp suffers from
<neuro_> just need to be careful that it's tuned correctly for the required load and content
<ivanka> neuro_, pm?
<neuro_> looks like edge funding is slowing way down
<mungbean> what is it now
<neuro_> less than 200k in the last 8 hours
<neuro_> 3.864m
<mungbean> they screwed up with the double trouble offer
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: rewards have been restructured
<MooDoo> I'm not sure it'll hit 5
<mungbean> if fully funded with double troubles, then phones at $700
<neuro_> they've gone mad
<mungbean> so why not just offer phones at $700
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: they're offering phones at 625 now
<mungbean> orly?
<neuro_> you can get it at $625, $675, $725, $830 and 2x @ $1400
 * mungbean checks
<mungbean> hmm..this makes them look a bit unprepared/unplanned
<neuro_> unless i'm missing something, there is absolutely no difference between any of them, other than the 1400 one being for 2 phones
<MartijnVdS> http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/ubuntu-edge?c=activity
<MartijnVdS> ^ the plan
<neuro_> why buy 100 for 80,000 when you can buy 100 for 62,500
<mungbean> also, the enterprise bundle is not economic
<MartijnVdS> but you also get support with that bundle
<mungbean> just stop being silly and offer all phones @ 630
<mungbean> customers need to know where they stand
<neuro_> "You told us you want more opportunities to get the Ubuntu Edge at a lower contribution level, so we went back to our spreadsheets and came up with a solution."
<neuro_> the solution is to just leave it alone
<mungbean> Hundreds of you have already contributed $830 for an Ubuntu Edge, but donât worry. Weâll refund the difference at the end of the campaign so you wonât lose out.
<mungbean> this makes them look silly tbh
<neuro_> WHAT!
<neuro_> i didn't notice that
<neuro_> this is sheer confusion
<mungbean> who decided this?
<MooDoo> isn't it all really just a test of the water to see if people are really interested?  I could never seeing them make 30m
<mungbean> MooDoo: it's 40,000 phones, which could happen if the price was $5-600 or thereabouts
<neuro_> this is a poor way to test the water
<neuro_> these "perk levels" should have been implemented from the start
<mungbean> look at the funders list
<neuro_> or not at all
<mungbean> some are paying 655, others 625
<mungbean> confusion reigns
<MooDoo> at least they can then say "ah well we tried and people weren't interested"
<MartijnVdS> 655 = 625 + 30 int. shipping
<mungbean> ah
<neuro_> but people obviously are interested
<MartijnVdS> but are enough people interested for it to be a real thing
<MooDoo> 32m is too high imo
<AlanBell> the enterprise bundle has more problems than just being more expensive than buying them individually
<mungbean> i like to see people having a plan
<mungbean> this does not look like a plan
<neuro_> AlanBell: yeah, we were talking about this yesterday
<MooDoo> but then again I read somewhere that orange or someone similar did a similar thing and to produce a new phone it actually takes 50m so they are doing it a lot cheaper
<neuro_> you're supposed to get a capex and deployment approval for something based on a) whether or not it actually gets manufactured and shipped, and b) meets its release date, and it's 10 months away ...
<neuro_> oh and if your deployment is successful, you can never buy any more
<neuro_> and if one of them is dropped and smashes beyond repair, you can never buy a replacement
<MartijnVdS> or just have a rich employer who likes to gamble and give away toys
<neuro_> in which case the included workshops and 30 days of support are useless
<neuro_> you'd be cheaper off just buying a bunch of them at the lower tiers
<mungbean> is the weather nice out?
<neuro_> no
<mungbean> blue sky in london, unsure if warm
<neuro_> it's too warm/cold/sunny/cloudy/dry/wet/blue/green/fishy
<MooDoo> oi it's never to fishy ;)
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: http://www.weeronline.nl/Europa/Groot-Brittannie/Londen/4163337
<neuro_> hehe
<neuro_> GROOT!
<neuro_> STROOPWAFEL!
<mgdm> mmmm stroopwaffels
<MartijnVdS> hmmm stroopwafels
 * mgdm ^5 MartijnVdS 
<MartijnVdS> ^5
<neuro_> since when did ^ = 5?
<neuro_> err, s/5/high/
<MartijnVdS> since forever/
<MartijnVdS> ?
<neuro_> never mind
<neuro_> don't care
<neuro_> just opened a pack of french crisps
<neuro_> Saveur Bolognaise
<neuro_> om nom
<HoT|2fC^> hey up everyone :)
<HoT|2fC^> I got my DL380 G3 today it has a 36GB SCSI Hard Drive, now in the BIOS at POST screen it detects it but when I go to boot from CD/ROM on Windows XP Pro 32Bit, it says to me no Hard Drive detected please check its connected and make sure its setup via BIOS.
<HoT|2fC^> I have phoned the company where I got it from he said does the light come on the BAY, I said yes, so he then said what color is it I said its "Green" he said OK thats working then and its detecting it in the BIOS/POST Screen!
<AlanBell> how is that an Ubuntu question?
<HoT|2fC^> he then said it should install XP no problem, I said I am about to try Ubuntu 13.04 Server edition he said try that an it should boot and install, if not let him know he will find out why and he said it might be something to do with where the SCSI is connecting to.
<AlanBell> ah, thats how :)
<HoT|2fC^> yeah AlanBell lol, its more of a BIOS / BOOT / ANY OS tbh lol I just need it to work hhaa.
<AlanBell> so, does it work in Ubuntu?
<DJones> Could be that win xp cd hasn't got the right driver for the scsi hardware
<HoT|2fC^> DJones sounds so true :) it is a copy off Torrent as a .iso already activated. but yeah hopefully it boots off the ubuntu in a minute when I burn it to disc.
<HoT|2fC^> AlanBell, not as yet :)
<MartijnVdS> HoT|2fC^: there's a "Have driver disk" prompt at install time for a reason ;)
<AlanBell> !piracy
<lubotu3> piracy discussion and other questionably legal practices are not welcome in the Ubuntu channels. Please take this discussion elsewhere or abstain from it altogether. This includes linking to pirated software, music, and video. Also see !guidelines and !o4o
<HoT|2fC^> oops sorry.
<MartijnVdS> just stick to Ubuntu :)
<HoT|2fC^> MartijnVdS, yeah it detects it as Compaq 36.6GB's (SCSI)
<MartijnVdS> HoT|2fC^: I just got off the phone with the stone age. They want their machine back.
<HoT|2fC^> It's formatted I can't see it not installing to be honest, it boots fine!
<HoT|2fC^> :O
<HoT|2fC^> MartijnVdS, whos machine :D
<MartijnVdS> HoT|2fC^: Gnork the caveman
<DJones> HoT|2fC^: You have your answer then, install Ubuntu & relax
<HoT|2fC^> DJones, I hope so yeah :)
<davmor2> HoT|2fC^: for windows xp there is an option during the initial cd run like F1 or something to install 3rd party drivers if it is a scsi device these are almost always needed.
<HoT|2fC^> the guy even said it on the phone lol, it says in BIOS (OS Type) and a list of OS/S... shell I select "Linux"
<HoT|2fC^> davmor2: Ahhh yes I always noticed that at the start lol, always wondered what that F6 or something or other does LOL
<HoT|2fC^> you are a lifesaver :D
<HoT|2fC^> I just let it scan all that at the start an wait then it comes up with the detected hard drive thing saying F3 to reboot.
<HoT|2fC^> right brb :D
<HoT|2fC^> wish me luck!!
<davmor2> quick everyone hide
<davmor2> :D
<Azelphur> If you delete a rm, it doesn't delete the files it points to, right?
<mungbean> huh?
<Myrtti> yeah that would sound about the right reaction to that question
<MooDoo> Azelphur: can you be a little clearer?
<MooDoo> Azelphur: do you mean a symlink?
<Azelphur> wow, haha
<Azelphur> I really mangled that sentence didn't I
<MooDoo> yeah
<MooDoo> :)
<Azelphur> but yea, I did mean a symlink, and I figured it out, couldn't delete it because it wasn't a symlink :)
<MooDoo> i'm impressed i interpreted rm as symlink lol
<Azelphur> haha
<Azelphur> does anyone else do that? you go to type something, then you make a correction, but you mess it up and just end up with a totally mangled sentence that makes no sense.
<Azelphur> I do it occasionally \o/
<DJones> I was trying to work out how you delete something if you'd deleted the rm command
<Azelphur> hahaha
<mgdm> /bin/unlink
<mgdm> or write a python script :-)
<Azelphur> DJones: mv file /dev/null? ;)
<MooDoo> format and reinstall Azelphur that'll definately delete the file.
<Azelphur> haha
<MooDoo> It's what I do ;)
<Azelphur> MooDoo: funny enough, that's what I'm actually doing, just taking backups at the moment ;)
<MooDoo> Azelphur: backups?  you a man or a mouse ;)
<Azelphur> a mouse, full drive backups >.<
<Azelphur> in multiple locations, too
<MooDoo> lol I can't talk, I'm paranoid about backups :D
<HoT|2fC^> <davmor2> quick everyone hide
<HoT|2fC^> <davmor2> :D
<HoT|2fC^> Tuttut ;)
<mungbean> resize2fs of ext4 ? umount first?
<SuperMatt> yup
<SuperMatt> always
<SuperMatt> personally, I tend to do my stuff with gparted running off a usb or cd
<SuperMatt> because I don't trust my fingers
<mungbean> it does work though...
<HoT|2fC^> Well im back so best get out of your hiding places haha, well I have tried booting Windows XP, pressed F6 for third party SCSI drivers and what do you know no luck at all I get a message asking me to put a Disk in but A? thats floppy lol I dont have a floppy with drivers on it so I dont know why its not letting me get them off the disc, anyway says about the SCSI wont work with Windows XP,
<HoT|2fC^> so I tried Ubuntu and what do you know its on a DVD :( I have a CD/ROM not DVD/ROM.
<HoT|2fC^> I am going to burn the Ubuntu 13.04 Server.iso to a CDR now.
<HoT|2fC^> Then I should be able to boot linux !
<mgdm> HoT|2fC^: will your machine boot off a USB stick?
<neuro_> i'll boot YOUR stick
<HoT|2fC^> mgdm, no as its old :(
<HoT|2fC^> I have ILO :/
<neuro_> 13.04 server?
<HoT|2fC^> I can boot from CD/ROM only :(
<neuro_> *boggle*
<HoT|2fC^> neuro_, yes.
<neuro_> y u no install lts?
<HoT|2fC^> ubuntu-13.04-server-amd64 <-- that one for my Xeons.
<HoT|2fC^> LTS? Whats that one about, isnt it a Beta or something \o/
<neuro_> you jest, yes?
<HoT|2fC^> jest? :o
<HoT|2fC^> I haven't tested it no, hence why I am here lol.
<HoT|2fC^> I need to get it installed!
<HoT|2fC^> brb
 * HoT|2fC^ is burning Ubuntu 13.04 Server to a non-DVD disc :)
<HoT|2fC^> Whats difference with LTS and normal Ubuntu 13.04 Server ?
<neuro_> oh, you were being serious
<neuro_> sorry, i thought you were making a joke :)
<MartijnVdS> HoT|2fC^: 12.04 is LTS, 13.04 isn't
<neuro_> LTS is Long Term Support, it's supported longer
<neuro_> 8.04, 10.04, 12.04 are all LTS
<neuro_> 14.04 will be as well
<neuro_> they are supported for 7 years
<neuro_> iirc non-LTS releases are only supported for 18 months
<MartijnVdS> i.e. one internet century
<neuro_> shush
<HoT|2fC^> :O
<HoT|2fC^> I see ok ok :D
<neuro_> so basically you'll get longer support for package updates for security etc with an LTS release
<MooDoo> and lts doesn't use cutting edge versions of the software
<HoT|2fC^> I will just use this for now to test if it works then I will go for 13.04 LTS thanks there neuro_
<neuro_> downside is "poorer" hardware support
<neuro_> 13.04 is not LTS
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: well, it's cutting edge at the time of release
<neuro_> 12.04 is
<HoT|2fC^> LoL
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS: well yes but 12.04 isn't now :ed
<MartijnVdS> neuro_: and they do "hardware support upgrade" now, with newer kernels and X
<neuro_> oh yeah
<neuro_> quantal kernels
<MartijnVdS> raring kernels even
 * MooDoo doesn't need anything other than LTs
<HoT|2fC^> Ok ok, thats enuff now just help me get it installed on my server using SCSI hard drive lol
<neuro_> burn disc, put disc in optical drive, boot
<MooDoo> neuro_: behave it can't be that easy ;)
<neuro_> that's how i do it :)
<MartijnVdS> HoT|2fC^: the "Server" doesn't install the GUI bits, but does offer several server-specific options
<MooDoo> neuro_: you're magical we're only human ;)
<MartijnVdS> HoT|2fC^: the "Desktop" ISOs install the Ubuntu desktop you know and love
<neuro_> if no optical drive, go to currys, buy cheap usb dvd drive, put disc in cheap usb dvd drive, install
<MartijnVdS> 'Yer a wizard, neuro_'
<neuro_> abracadabra
<HoT|2fC^> MartijnVdS, ah ok ok so easy 7 steps then? till I get to the GUI bit :D
<MooDoo> shhhhhhh all he's at the burn the disk stage, it's a difficult one that ;)
<neuro_> no GUI in server install
<HoT|2fC^> :(
<neuro_> text mode
<neuro_> it's easy
<MartijnVdS> \o/ text mode
<neuro_> \o/
<HoT|2fC^> is it all command ?
<neuro_> server is text mode by default
<HoT|2fC^> I dont know any commands well I do..
<MooDoo> HoT|2fC^: yes unless you install a gui
<HoT|2fC^> sudo get makeme a butty
<HoT|2fC^> MooDoo, damn :(
<neuro_> i would stop right now
<neuro_> if you don't know what you're doing
<MooDoo> HoT|2fC^: why do you need a gui?
<HoT|2fC^> MooDoo, I want a easy install all I want is to get a distro on my server.
<MooDoo> cd and vi are your friends ;)
<HoT|2fC^> using SCSI.
<MartijnVdS> emacs runs fine in text mode
<HoT|2fC^> mmm
<neuro_> don't worry about scsi
<MooDoo> HoT|2fC^: then you don't need a gui
<neuro_> ubuntu treats everything as scsi ;)
<HoT|2fC^> good! :D
<HoT|2fC^> when I install ubuntu server now when do I need to do ??
<MooDoo> I'm talking to you now from a server running command line irc :D
<HoT|2fC^> is it easy
<HoT|2fC^> lol MooDoo
<neuro_> HoT|2fC^: http://www.ubuntu.com/download/server/install-ubuntu-server
<neuro_> READ
<HoT|2fC^> OK
<HoT|2fC^> :D
<MooDoo> HoT|2fC^: get the iso and burn it to a cd, then boot the server with it in the drive, and follow the on screen prompts easy :d
<HoT|2fC^> Seems easy :)
<HoT|2fC^> ok here goes..
<HoT|2fC^> be right back
 * HoT|2fC^ runs to the basement
<MooDoo> should we have told him about the crickets? ;)
<MartijnVdS> and the spiders
<neuro_> I'M RARED RAGGY!
<neuro_> Me too, Scoob!
<mungbean> online resize went ok
<mgdm> brave :)
<mungbean> i don't have control of the VMware to snapshot it
<mungbean> 4.25M ...
<mungbean> sold quite a few more phones today
<directhex> mungbean, price dropped a lot too
<directhex> sliding scale now
<mungbean> pay what you want ;)
<mungbean> humble indie phoe
<bigcalm> neuro_: I'm still unable to get my head around routing for this project, but the good news is that the buck has been passed to the client to sort out :D We've got the VPN set-up, now they can deal with routing
<neuro_> \o/
<bigcalm> That's what I did when I call the call about it from my boss
<neuro_> the fobbed off happy dance :)
<bigcalm> s/call/got
<bigcalm> Heh
<neuro_> humble indie phone, lol
<neuro_> hmm, i'm just firing in my shopping into tesco.com and i note on their front page, they think i'm some sort of english picnicking mentlar
<neuro_> half price ice cream! half price cheese! 2 for Â£1 on salad!
<neuro_> and the kicker
<neuro_> PIMMS 1l ONLY Â£16!
<neuro_> uh, ok
<neuro_> i think i've drunk pimms twice in my whole life
<neuro_> albeit once for an extended session
<mgdm> I don't think I've ever had Pimms
<neuro_> it is a silly drink
<MooDoo> it tastes like barley sugar sweets if you add it to lemonade
<neuro_> but when you're at a work event in brighton, and people keep handing you glasses of it, you tend not to say no
<mgdm> MooDoo: that doesn't sound too bad actually, I like barley sugars :)
<neuro_> this stuff is epic, by the way: http://www.tesco.com/groceries/Product/Details/?id=266352446
<neuro_> copella apple juice
<neuro_> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/07/23/ubuntuforums_cracker_promises_no_password_release/
<MartijnVdS> neuro_: sure, "promise"
<mungbean> oh we're supposed to think he's great now?
<Myrtti> pimms is nice if you make it into proper nice ginger ale
<Myrtti> not Schweppes, mind you
<diddledan> pimms is evil
<diddledan> I don't like it
<mungbean> doesn't bother me either way
<mungbean> its ok in a cold drink
<mungbean> not particularly exciting though
<diddledan> $360,440 has been raised through the $20 founder perk?!
<mungbean> cool
<diddledan> that's if everyone at that level only contributed $20
<mungbean> some did $100, others $1 others $30
<diddledan> 1822 claims @ $20 = $360,440
<diddledan> this campaign is getting crazy!
<diddledan> <3
<mungbean> caught someone on camera going into my office reading confidential docs
<diddledan> oops
<mungbean> unsure how to proceed
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: where I work, I'd notify the internal security team
<diddledan> "forged aboud id"
<diddledan> are they employed by your company or just a random stranger?
<mungbean> employee
<mungbean> he will say he was looking for something
<diddledan> that actually helps. you can follow disciplinary procedures.
<mungbean> its a locked room
<diddledan> perhaps he accidentally unlocked it, accidentally opened the door, and accidentally found a confidential piece of paper, and accidentally read it thoroughly
<mungbean> yes
<mungbean> think i will sit on it for a bit
<davmor2> he didn't realise he was employed there as he gets a paycheck from the nsa
<diddledan> lol
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: tripped, fell on the key, tumbled onto the lock, and then hit the handle
<bigcalm> Steak T-4.5 hours
<MartijnVdS> 0xDEADBEEF?
<bigcalm> Best kind
<diddledan> 0xDEADBEEFCAFE
<diddledan> that's a steakhouse
<MartijnVdS> 0xDEADBEEFCAFEBABE is the waitress
<diddledan> lol
<HoT|2fC^> damn :( when I try and boot Ubuntu 13.04 Server I get this for ages and I have to press the power button on the server to turn it off and power back up again for further attemps :( http://i40.tinypic.com/5fm59g.jpg
<MartijnVdS> HoT|2fC^: looks like it doesn't like your CD
<neuro_> mungbean: it's a potential security and confidentiality breach
<neuro_> it's gross misconduct and possibly criminal
<HoT|2fC^> But with windows it boots :/ I have tried selecting the Operating System Type to Linux and also tried Other OS, and Windows XP seems to boot under Windows 2000, 2003 etc..
<neuro_> call the guy's boss and your HR department now
<mungbean> this is all true but kicking up a stink often ends with a game of politics
<HoT|2fC^> My uncle says for Windows I need the driver for the controller card and probably be "Adaptec Controller" or "Texas Instruments".
<MartijnVdS> HoT|2fC^: forget about Windows
<mungbean> he'll say "i thought the office had been vacated"
<HoT|2fC^> But it gets me why it won't boot my Ubuntu Discs, I tried Ubuntu 13.04 Desktop that run fine on my PC I have it on here.
<HoT|2fC^> I have burnt a new one and still no luck :/
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: don't second-guess what he'll say
<mungbean> but politics...
<HoT|2fC^> Im doomed.
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: but security
<mungbean> but nobody has ever been disciplined for anything here ever
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: Poison his coffee.
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: or just make it look (to him) like you did ;)
<HoT|2fC^> http://h20000.www2.hp.com/bizsupport/TechSupport/SoftwareIndex.jsp?lang=en&cc=us&prodNameId=3288130&prodTypeId=0&prodSeriesId=316529&swLang=13&taskId=135&swEnvOID=1005#113214
<HoT|2fC^> Do I need this MartijnVdS the HP ProLiant 64-Bit/66-Mhz Dual Channel Wide Ultra3 SCSI Controller Driver for Windows Server 2003
<MartijnVdS> HoT|2fC^: what happened when you tied?
<MartijnVdS> tried*
<HoT|2fC^> tried to what install XP
<HoT|2fC^> Asked for a floppy disc drive A: lol
<diplo> HoT|2fC^: You're not even getting that far, it's not booted the server disc yet..
<HoT|2fC^> when I hit F6
<HoT|2fC^> diplo, gatherd that.
<MartijnVdS> HoT|2fC^: you can put the drivers onto the Windows CD I think
<diplo> All the drivers that you probably require are built into the kernel
<HoT|2fC^> MartijnVdS, ah I see ok..
<diplo> Issue with the disc or cd/dvd drive maybe..
<davmor2> no you just need to put the drivers onto a floppy disk
<HoT|2fC^> yeah davmor2 like I have any of those \o/
<HoT|2fC^> I don't even have a floppie disc drive to write a floppy disc.
<diddledan> I've got hundreds of the buggers
<HoT|2fC^> Only on my server that I got today!
<diddledan> I really want to archive all my 5.25" floppies
<directhex> windows NT 5 - i.e. XP, 2000, and 2003 - can only add extra drivers either from a floppy diskette in drive A:, or via modifying the install CD to include the extra driver directly
<HoT|2fC^> MartijnVdS I will have to do it the way you said, Do I just burn the files to the disc with the .iso :/
<MartijnVdS> HoT|2fC^: Microsoft has a huge knowledge base which contains answers to that question
<diplo> diddledan: that's what minions at work are for, got one of ours to do all ours a few years ago
<directhex> you can't just put the driver files on the CD, you need to use a tool to mangle all the driver databases on there to see the new driver
<directhex> nLite is one such tool
<mungbean> go to the dump
<mungbean> throw them in
<diddledan> aha, burn the iso as a file is the wrong way
<diddledan> you don't "put the iso on the disc"
<HoT|2fC^> :o
<diddledan> you "write the disc FROM the iso"
<HoT|2fC^> ok I will use the nLite directhex :)
<HoT|2fC^> What do you say is good burning tool for Windows? :o
<neuro_> aaaaaaaaaargh
<MartijnVdS> HoT|2fC^: ##windows
<MartijnVdS> HoT|2fC^: we're the Ubuntu channel
<HoT|2fC^> Been there no reply off anyone :)
<neuro_> sorry, just rattled some more bolognaise crisps :)
<neuro_> TASTY!!!!
<HoT|2fC^> I know you are, but I use Ubuntu also and I dont see the problem :D
<MartijnVdS> HoT|2fC^: THen please try google first :) Most of your questions are page-one google answers
<MartijnVdS> are/have
<AlanBell> HoT|2fC^: the problem is we probably don't know
<HoT|2fC^> lol
<HoT|2fC^> Ok thanks :)
<diddledan> HoT|2fC^: you need to right-click the downloaded iso and click "burn disc image"
<neuro_> http://www.ubuntu.com/download/desktop/burn-a-dvd-on-windows
<AlanBell> if windows has not got a support community around it then use an operating system that does
<neuro_> no, actually, this is a fair question
<HoT|2fC^> It's on CDR :) I dont have a DVD ROM on my server its CD ROM :)
<neuro_> because how do you install ubuntu if you don't have it
<AlanBell> maybe one day Windows will be popular enough that there will be answers to questions
<MartijnVdS> neuro_: magic
<neuro_> and that's why there's a page on how to burn the disc
<mungbean> ubuntu-edge could hit Â£5M today?
<MartijnVdS> well there's http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows7/burn-a-cd-or-dvd-from-an-iso-file
<neuro_> HoT|2fC^: http://www.ubuntu.com/download/desktop/burn-a-dvd-on-windows
<diddledan> mungbean: I hope
<HoT|2fC^> thanks :D
<diddledan> I want my phone already
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: wait a year
<diddledan> how long is the development gonna take? :-p
<neuro_> minus two months
<MartijnVdS> neuro_: plus delays
<neuro_> DOES NO-ONE READ ANYTHING ANY MORE?!
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: 1) read indiegogo page
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: 2) enlightenment
<diddledan> 3) profit?
<neuro_> 3) indiegogoinfo@canonical.com
<neuro_> mungbean: 5m?
<neuro_> mungbean: doubt it
<neuro_> it was at 3.4m at 4am
<diddledan> neuro_: shut up and take my money! :-p
<neuro_> diddledan: you can give your money to me, certainly
<diddledan> lol
<mungbean> and its 4.2m 12hrs later
<diddledan> mungbean: 4.480
<neuro_> oh, i hadn't refreshed for a while
<mungbean> wowzer
<davmor2> man the 625 batch is nearly sold out
<mungbean> should be a lesson to them
<mungbean> keep the price at that point
<ivanka> I like this view: http://ubuntu-edge.info/
<czajkowski> aloha
<ivanka> People do like a bargain
<ivanka> hi czajkowski
<mungbean> i expect 25% of funds are raised on 1st and last day
<neuro_> http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/5031267/ubuntu-seeks-crowd-funding-for-ubuntu-edge-smartphone.html
<neuro_> "boffins"
<czajkowski> ivanka: hows the travels going ?
<mungbean> neuro_: most dumbed down article ever. how many readers?
<ivanka> neuro_, the sun?
<neuro_> how should i know? :)
<mungbean> 2-3M
<ivanka> has ubuntu ever been mentioned in the sun before?
<ivanka> czajkowski, not really travelling - going away in september though
<ivanka> czajkowski, mostly resting, kayaking, and doing bits of work
<neuro_> "Your search returned 0 results"
<ivanka> how are you?
<neuro_> which is interesting since there's an article today
<ivanka> neuro_, heh
<ivanka> more reasons not to trust the sun
<czajkowski> ivanka: oh nice, working away here in the new job
<czajkowski> popping to the bluefin in abit to see some folks
<ivanka> what new job?
<ivanka> something exciting?
<neuro_> MONNNNNGGGOOOOOOOOOOOO!
<SuperMatt> db
<SuperMatt> I am getting the strangest results on a webserver test I'm doing
<SuperMatt> so, I'm doing an apache benchmark of the website, and recording the results
<SuperMatt> I then do the same thing again, but with the website behind a mod-proxy instance
<SuperMatt> naturally the response times go up, by about 200ms on average
<SuperMatt> so far so good
<SuperMatt> *then* I enable mod-security on that proxy server, and the response times are not only lower that that of just the proxy on it's own, but it's *lower* than the original results of no proxy, no mod-sec
<diddledan> maybe cached file reads
<diddledan> ?
<SuperMatt> nope, there's no caching
<diddledan> I don't know if linux caches at the filesystem layer or not
<SuperMatt> even so, with mod-security enabled, *everything* should take longer
<SuperMatt> because it should be scanning all the requests
<mungbean> how do i read a base-64 email?
<SuperMatt> isn't that just an attachment?
 * SuperMatt doesn't know
<MartijnVdS> decode it ;)
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: put it in python, .decode('base64') it
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: uudeview package contains a command line decoder
<mungbean> chars
<diddledan> 4.618M
<diddledan> it's got to slow down soon, right?!
<MooDoo> already is i'm guessing
<mungbean> slows looks like 5M easily by midnight then
 * davmor2 pictures neuro_ in his best blazing saddles impression saying that Mongo earlier
<diddledan> "candygram for mongo"
<davmor2> Mongo like candy
<czajkowski> ivanka: community manager in EMEA for MongoDB
<czajkowski> ivanka: http://www.lczajkowski.com/2013/06/13/a-bite-of-something-new/
<davmor2> sheriff mongo is coming!
<popey> $morning
<SuperMatt> hullo
<davmor2> popey:
<davmor2> popey: How's oscon treating you?  I am setting up the live stream as we type
<mungbean> 1309 out of 1250 claimed
<diddledan> that's clever
<mungbean> but at laest they've got the SOLD OUT sign up now
<diplo> Can someone tell me if this is accesible ?
<diddledan> only 240k till 5M
<diplo> http://82.69.12.215
<diddledan> diplo: timeout
<diplo> kk ta
<diplo> aha, lot's of stuff been played with on router
<diplo> Should work now ?
<diddledan> It works!
<diplo> ta fanx
<diddledan> I wonder how many webservers leave that page up?
<diddledan> I believe all the servers at my work will be displaying that page for HTTP/1.0 and IP-based and incorrect hostname access
<diplo> heh, fresh install for me, trying DMZ setup on the router rather than port forward ports everywhere
<diplo> Seems to work ok atm, and instead of changing the IP each time on each port I can just change the IP of the VM I'm testing
<diddledan> true DMZ or fake-DMZ? :-p
<MartijnVdS> run-dmz
<diddledan> most commercial routers call NAT to a single LAN IP as DMZ but it's fake - a true DMZ has a separate network segment
<bigcalm> Steak T-2.5 hours
<diplo> true-dmz
<diplo> Well so it says on the web page :)
<neuro_> "please enter the first, fourth and thirteenth characters of your password"
<neuro_> when it comes to verified by visa, i don't mess around :)
<diddledan> thirteenth?!
<diddledan> bloody nora
<neuro_> you don't use long passwords?
<diddledan> I can't remember a password that long
<diddledan> I've got lastpass for most of my passwords
<diddledan> but verified by visa requires that I remember it myself
<diddledan> 'cos they insist on segments
<neuro_> my passwords are usually two or three words mashed together with some letters numberised
<neuro_> and random capitalisation if i'm feeling particularly sadistic
<davmor2> neuro_ 's password is "It's_a_wee_timorous_beastie_with_big_pointy_teeth"
 * diplo uses keepassx
<diplo> Around 16characters for all mine
<neuro_> underscores make touch typists cry
 * SuperMatt uses keepassx too
<SuperMatt> it's useful
<neuro_> woot
<neuro_> dns migrated from old clapped out 10.04 vm to funky 12.04 dual xeon
<neuro_> on both v4 and v6
<neuro_> *bounce*
<SuperMatt> my experiments in to v6 have left my brain dripping out of my ears
<MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: ipv6?
<MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: what do you want to know? :)
<SuperMatt> how to stop my brain from hurting ;)
<MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: It's like IPv4, but with longer addresses.. nothing more
<SuperMatt> but seriously, I understand much of it
<MartijnVdS> oh and autoconfiguration, which is nice
<neuro_> tis
<neuro_> i use it at home
<neuro_> well, *here*
<neuro_> since i am at home
<MartijnVdS> my ISP even does DHCPv6-PD over PPPoE to send me a prefix
<neuro_> shush
<MartijnVdS> so I get a /48 at home
<neuro_> so my question is
<neuro_> what the heck are you gonna do with a /48? :)
 * neuro_ is quite happy with a /64
<MartijnVdS> neuro_: yeah.. I'm still sort of wondering
<MartijnVdS> neuro_: I get 64k /64s 8-)
<neuro_> and even that is kinda frivolous when you think about it
<neuro_> hehe
<neuro_> annoyingly though, my new dns server is sitting on a /128 :(
<diddledan> my reason for a /48 would be to allow me to give hotspot users a /64, but no hotspot software currently works with ip6
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: coovachilli does, I think
<neuro_> i thought m0n0wall supported v6
<diddledan> it needs to be compatible with hotspotsystem.com, so I've not been able to get m0n0wall or pfsense (preferred over m0n0) working with it
<diddledan> I think I had issues with the whitelisting
<diddledan> I can't remember now tho, tbh
<neuro_> i always forget pfsense does portal
<MartijnVdS> neuro_: so basically I have 64k * (v4 space * v4 space).. which does seem like a lot
<neuro_> you'd run out of space for machines before you ran out of IPs
<MartijnVdS> neuro_: coovachilli seems compatible, accordsing to the "Installation guide"
<neuro_> MartijnVdS: i care not :)
<neuro_> wasn't me asking ;)
<MartijnVdS> oh wait
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: ^
<diddledan> MartijnVdS: link?
<diddledan> can't find any mention here: http://www.coova.org/CoovaChilli/Documentation
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: http://hotspotsystem.com/en/hotspot/install_guide_openwrt.html
<diddledan> oh right, yeah, I know coova is compatible with hss, but coova doesn't do ip6
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: http://www.coova.org/CoovaChilli/ChangeLog it does (experimentally)
<diddledan> the documentation for coova is seriously scant
<MartijnVdS> it is :(
 * MartijnVdS runs a network for a camping on it
<HoT|2fC^> Still no luck :(
<HoT|2fC^> I can't beleave windows will boot but not detect my scsi drive, then when I try and boot Ubuntu or any Linux distro it just fails an does not boot at all :(
<MartijnVdS> HoT|2fC^: are you using the 32-bit Ubuntu? Because your machine seems a bit old for 64-bit software
<HoT|2fC^> MartijnVdS, I use 32Bit with Windows and Ubuntu is 32bit ? I think.
<MartijnVdS> HoT|2fC^: depends on the .iso you download
<HoT|2fC^> MartijnVdS: First Linux distro I tried to boot was this one "ubuntu-13.04-desktop-i386"
<MartijnVdS> HoT|2fC^: how did you burn it to CD?
<HoT|2fC^> Using Nero?
<MartijnVdS> HoT|2fC^: as a file on the CD, or as a disc image?
<HoT|2fC^> I burnt both ways
<AlanBell> if you put the disk in the computer you used to burn it, does it open a folder containing a file called ubuntu-13.04-desktop-i386.iso?
<HoT|2fC^> I have a copy here and it boots from my PC.
<AlanBell> because if it did, then you are doing it wrong
<AlanBell> ok, so you have a known good CD that boots on another computer
<AlanBell> is the bios on the computer that doesn't work set so that it will boot from CD?
<MartijnVdS> is the CD drive IDE or SCSI?
<MartijnVdS> oh wait, you can boot Windows off the same drive
<HoT|2fC^> AlanBell, The CD I have tried to boot just says "ubuntu-13.04-server-amd64"
<HoT|2fC^> ISO Burn :/
<HoT|2fC^> then www.isoburner.com
<HoT|2fC^> when you highlight it
<MartijnVdS> but.. -amd64 is not -i386
<MartijnVdS> which one is it?
<HoT|2fC^> Thats the server one must be wrong that
<HoT|2fC^> the Desktop one is i386 an when I put it in my PC now it loads up Ubuntu Menu to install!
<HoT|2fC^> but this is a DVD-R so wont work in my CDROM and I think its SCSI.
<HoT|2fC^> I cant do usb booting either :(
<MartijnVdS> HoT|2fC^: OK, so get the i386 alternate or server CD image
<AlanBell> ah, no it wont' work in a CD only drive
<MartijnVdS> HoT|2fC^: and burn the image to a *cd*
<AlanBell> the desktop image is too big to go on CD
<MartijnVdS> then you should be able to boot it
<MartijnVdS> the server one isn't
<HoT|2fC^> Yeah true I didnt think of that :o
<MartijnVdS> and the 12.04 one might fit on CD as well, still
<AlanBell> yup, server should be fine, and as MartijnVdS says, it must be CD media
<HoT|2fC^> Ok so, I need the server i386 CD image.
<MartijnVdS> HoT|2fC^: releases.ubuntu.com
<MartijnVdS> HoT|2fC^: you want 12.04 for a server -- longer / better support
<MartijnVdS> HoT|2fC^: NOT 13.04
<HoT|2fC^> :o
<HoT|2fC^> I have 12.04 desktop on disc :D
<HoT|2fC^> its from ubuntu
<HoT|2fC^> but amd64 :/
<MartijnVdS> HoT|2fC^: yes.. get the 12.04 SERVER i386 ISO
<MartijnVdS> not the desktop one
<AlanBell> depends what you want, 13.04 is newer stuff, depends if you care
<neuro_> why i386?
<neuro_> do we know what the cpu is?
<MartijnVdS> neuro_: because it's a machine from the neolithic
<AlanBell> if you are running stuffs that depends on openoffice headless for PDF rendering then you probably want 13.04 rather than 12.04
<neuro_> AlanBell: i doubt that's even a concern
<HoT|2fC^> Im using my Server for hosting a Dedicated game server.
<neuro_> HoT|2fC^: what is the CPU?
<neuro_> or CPUs?
<AlanBell> possibly not :) but there are perfectly valid reasons to want a newer server than LTS
<HoT|2fC^> It's a x2 Dual Intel Xeon 2.4Ghz
<neuro_> what kind of xeon
<MartijnVdS> HoT|2fC^: which generation xeon?
<neuro_> model number pls
<HoT|2fC^> Not sure.
<neuro_> what make and model is the server?
<HoT|2fC^> http://reviews.cnet.com/soho-servers/hp-proliant-dl380-g3/4505-3125_7-30475074.html
<neuro_> yikes
<HoT|2fC^> :/
<neuro_> that server shipped with Windows 2000
<neuro_> get the i386 installer
<neuro_> "amd64" is 64-bit, which that class of machine will not (and did not) support
<HoT|2fC^> http://www.andovercg.com/datasheets/hp-proliant-dl380-server.pdf
<HoT|2fC^> More info on it
<neuro_> don't need more
<neuro_> get the i386 installer
<HoT|2fC^> :o
<HoT|2fC^> Ok ok :)
<neuro_> lol
<HoT|2fC^> shame I have ran out of blank discs :(
<HoT|2fC^> what a bummer
<neuro_> shops will still be open :)
<neuro_> and this is a prime example of why you should plan stuff out before you do it
<HoT|2fC^> :(
<HoT|2fC^> I know.
<HoT|2fC^> Hey so I have here Ubuntu 12.04.2 LTS 32Bit
<HoT|2fC^> Correct neuro_?
<neuro_> server?
<HoT|2fC^> yes!
<neuro_> hurrah
<neuro_> have fun
<HoT|2fC^> i386
<HoT|2fC^> haha have fun, I wouldnt say that its fun tbh :p
<HoT|2fC^> I will have fun later when I play a few games!
<neuro_> depends on your perspective
<neuro_> what game servers are you planning to run on it?
<HoT|2fC^> Doom 3 :)
<neuro_> cool
<HoT|2fC^> and maybe Quake 4
<HoT|2fC^> It will not be on 24/ 7 it will only be odd weekends.
<HoT|2fC^> also its for me to learn a bit about a Enterprise server :)
<neuro_> well
<neuro_> a midrange server, certainly
<neuro_> albeit a 9 year old one
<HoT|2fC^> :)
<HoT|2fC^> So is my server junk then
<neuro_> nope
<neuro_> looks like i've found your cpu as well
<neuro_> http://ark.intel.com/products/27269/Intel-Xeon-Processor-2_40-GHz-512K-Cache-400-MHz-FSB
<HoT|2fC^> ah nice one nice 1 :)
<HoT|2fC^> so is it x2 2.4ghz each core ?
<neuro_> single core
<HoT|2fC^> ouch
<HoT|2fC^> whats the x2 Dual mean ?
<neuro_> two packages
<HoT|2fC^> oh
<neuro_> xeon number 1, xeon number 2
<HoT|2fC^> okok so its pushing 4.8ghz
<neuro_> nope
<HoT|2fC^> yes its named :)
<HoT|2fC^> no :O
<neuro_> it's 2x 2.4GHz
<neuro_> there are two separate single core CPUs
<HoT|2fC^> an that makes it ?
<neuro_> and that makes it 2x 2.4GHz
<neuro_> it's not a multiplier :)
<HoT|2fC^> so eg: if I have SMP
<HoT|2fC^> oh fuck
<neuro_> language
<HoT|2fC^> mind my french!
<MartijnVdS> HoT|2fC^: "merde"
<HoT|2fC^> \o/
 * HoT|2fC^ starts to pull his hair out...
<neuro_> as far as the OS is concerned, it doesn't matter if it's 1 CPU with dual core, or 2 CPUs with single cores
<neuro_> or 1 CPU with 1 hyperthreaded core
<HoT|2fC^> true
<neuro_> which these are not
<HoT|2fC^> so if I get ubuntu server 32bit going id be able to get a kick arse game server running?
<HoT|2fC^> thats all I care about :D
<neuro_> no idea
<neuro_> last time i ran a game server was about 5 years ago
<HoT|2fC^> wow lol
<neuro_> wolfenstein enemy territory on a dual pIII
<neuro_> ran quite nicely actually
<neuro_> actually 6 years ago sounds more accurate
<neuro_> dates, pfff
<HoT|2fC^> nice one, haha yeah while back now mate.
<MartijnVdS> one internet century agi
<MartijnVdS> ago*
<neuro_> not *that* far back, jeez
<HoT|2fC^> I loved that game wolfenstein
<HoT|2fC^> hehe:)
<neuro_> woah
<neuro_> hey
<neuro_> why do i have an underscore?
<MartijnVdS> neuro_: because reasons
 * neuro_ sees a neuro
<neuro_> time to engage
<HoT|2fC^> oh you know like you said neuro_ that shops are open still, well not where I live in the middle of no where in the sticks with sheep and cows,... my nearest local shop for milk and bread is 4miles away! \o/
<neuro_> "has been idle for 5hr 13min 16s"
<neuro_> dammit
<HoT|2fC^> LoL
<MartijnVdS> neuro_: blame christel?
<neuro> i'd blame christel for anything on freenode, but since she's not here ...
<mgdm> have you got neuro registered?
<neuro> yeah
<mgdm> surely you can not-ghost-but-the-other-one
<neuro> do you not remember? i had waited years to get it
<mgdm> I do remember, which is why I was asking
<neuro> after ryan murray decided not to log in for a few months
<neuro> <-
<neuro> it's done
<neuro> i ghosted em
<MartijnVdS> whoa
<MartijnVdS> energy companies have too much money
<bigcalm> Gah, LUG members are dropping out like flies. Tonight's going to be a lonely time
<MartijnVdS> (electricity/gas)
<mgdm> there's another one that bounces them to a Guest5425245 nick
<neuro> yeah, i keep meaning to figure that out
<neuro> cba tho
<neuro> anyway, mister sean mulvenon from nebraska, cheeky sod using my nick, is no more
<neuro> at least is no more using my nick
<MartijnVdS> silly yanks
<DJones> Heh, just reading http://www.omgchrome.com/google-announce-chromecast-chromekey/ and like this line "Any device running Chrome will be able to take advantage of Chromecast, regardless of operating system or device" Does that mean Chrome browser or Chrome OS
<MartijnVdS> lots of googly anouncements tonight it seems
<neuro> "Chromecast will cost $XX"
<neuro> 20 bucks? awesome!
<MartijnVdS> $35
<MartijnVdS> still awesome
<MartijnVdS> (according to the ars livecast)
<neuro> new nexus 7 at end of month for $229
<MartijnVdS> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZzS6BxHEns
<neuro> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZzS6BxHEns
<neuro> jinx
<neuro> just in time for it to finish ;)
<MartijnVdS> 8-)
<neuro> "Comments are disabled for this video." Even Google knows that the people who post YouTube comments aren't quite human
<MartijnVdS> great.. now I wait for the firmware push on my phone
<ali1234> my god the spelling on that article
<AlanBell> ooh I like that chromecast thing
<arc__> hi is there any visualisation programs in ubuntu execpt virual box
<AlanBell> arc__: do you by any chance mean virtualisation?
<arc__> yes sorry for the bad spelling
<AlanBell> heh, that is a different word, not a bad spelling!
<arc__> sorry
<AlanBell> virtualbox is good for desktop virtualisation, kvm is good for server stuff
<arc__> what is kvm
<arc__> never heard of it before
<AlanBell> it is kernel level virtualisation, you can control it with libvirt and the virt-manager gui
<arc__> so how do i install it using terminal
<AlanBell> good if you want to run and monitor a dozen or so VMs per host, and a few hosts
<AlanBell> !kvm
<lubotu3> kvm is the preferred virtualization approach in Ubuntu. For more information see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/KVM
<ali1234> virtualbox is perfectly fine for server virtualization too
<arc__> apt-get (what)
<ali1234> it can even use kvm
<AlanBell> arc__: read the link above :)
<arc__> yeah i have checked it
<arc__> my laptop does not support hardware virtualization
<AlanBell> can virtualbox manage remote hosts ali1234?
<ali1234> define "manage" and "remote"
<ali1234> and "host"
<AlanBell> heh
<AlanBell> headless server, with a bunch of VMs on it, and I want the management gui on my laptop
<ali1234> virtualbox has a command "VBoxHeadless" which you can use over ssh to manage guests
<arc__> has anyone ported virtual pc 2007 for ubuntu
<AlanBell> arc__: that isn't open source is it?
<arc__> i don't know that is why i am asking
<AlanBell> it is a microsoft product, it can't be ported by anyone but microsoft
<AlanBell> why do you want that specific product?
<arc__> it is very good for old windows os's like 3.11 and ms-dos and other stuff without crashing
<ali1234> AlanBell: actually, just use xhost if you want to remote the gui. that's what it is for
<ali1234> though the gui isn't really that useful once you have configured the vms
<AlanBell> ali1234: but then I have a separate GUI for each host
<ali1234> true
<AlanBell> I get your point, but KVM has one GUI that will ssh to multiple hosts and give me little graphs of all the VMs
<AlanBell> http://virt-manager.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/virt-manager-vm-list.png
<AlanBell> like that
<AlanBell> but not all localhost :)
<ali1234> well considering the virtualbox can use kvm... that will probably continue to work
<arc__> i am now installing ubuntu server in vbox right now
<ali1234> maybe it can't use kvm actually
<AlanBell> it can use *disks* that kvm uses
<ali1234> well
<ali1234> put it this way
<ali1234> if the kvm kernel modules are loaded, and you make a linux virtualmachine in virtualbox, it will only continue to work if the kvm kernel modules are loaded
<arc__> some how my p4 2.9ghz 1.5gb  ram pc is bad is vm's compared to my crap laptop with 712mb of ram
<ali1234> however, if the kvm module is loaded and you create or run a windows vm, it will always work
<ali1234> and if you make a linux vm with the kvm module unloaded, it won't work if the kvm module is loaded
<ali1234> to me this suggests that virtualbox uses kvm for linux vms
<ali1234> if it is available
<AlanBell> ok
<ali1234> it could just be that one or the other is horribly broken
<ali1234> or more likely both
<AlanBell> the big deal for me with virtualbox is that GUI accelleration is passed through with the guest extensions
<arc__> no it run faster in the host than the laptop
<arc__> host os (xp
<AlanBell> are you typing on a phone arc__?
<ali1234> anything less than 4GB is not even enough to run a single operating system
<arc__> no it is i am a bad at using the keybord really fast
<arc__> no that is not true
<ali1234> 1GB was considered entry level in about 2006
<arc__> i can run 4 vm's of win 2000 all at the same time
<arc__> and 3 vm's of xp
<ali1234> and they are all extremely slow
<ali1234> XP was released in what, 2001?
<arc__> xp is medium but 2000 runs fast
<ali1234> 2000 is the previous generation
<shauno> or idle. depending on the platform you can oversubscribe VMs like crazy.  and it'll look convincing when they're just sitting there doing nothing useful
<arc__> no they can all play videos  at above good quality
<ali1234> especially if you don't have hardware virtualization
<arc__> my pc can do a lot with vm's
<arc__> don't under estimate it
<ali1234> i'm not particularly happy about how memory hungry modern OSs - it's just the way it is
<arc__> why does microsoft have to leave it's p4 costumer when it can't run win 8
<arc__> even win 7 run's on it
<ali1234> they stopped making P4s 5 years ago
<arc__> yes but win 7 supported p4
<arc__> ubuntu run really well on it
<directhex> arc__, many operations are incredibly slow when you don't have virtualization-specific instructions in your CPU. which is something not found in pentium 4.
<shauno> they're pretty horrible processors for most uses, but it felt a bit mean saying that to his face
<directhex> they're irrelevant, in 2013
<AlanBell> that is raspberry pi class computing
<AlanBell> but with a touch more memory perhaps
<directhex> you overestimate raspberry pi.
 * AlanBell installed OpenERP on a raspberry pi
<AlanBell> granted it wasn't the fastest ERP platform I have ever used
<Azelphur> did the way of using multiple IP addresses change with the dawn of "ip" instead of ifconfig?
<Azelphur> or do I still just add stuff to /etc/network/interfaces
<diddledan> 5.1meelion!
<shauno> heh.  my finger's been hovering over the button all day, but I just can't do it
<mungbean> neuro: 5M *cough*
<mungbean> i feel bad about spending Â£15 on toys today
<mungbean> :P
<shauno> I really wish projects that large wouldn't use the kickstarter model.  Â£500 is into the realm of purchases I need to plan out, not be given a deadline
<MartijnVdS> shauno: you have one month
<diddledan> shauno: I done it
<diddledan> shauno: be with the "in" crowd :-p
<shauno> one month is irrelevant to me, the deadline is before my next payday
<mungbean> credit card ftw
<mungbean> up to 56 days to pay
<shauno> I really hope it works.  just bummed because I really can't swing it this month :/  I blew this month's toy budget in 2 hours
<diddledan> ooh, what'd ya buy?
<MartijnVdS> "toys"
<diddledan> sextoys?
<davmor2> diddledan: ahum
<diddledan> scuse me :-p
<davmor2> diddledan: he bought shiny toys
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: those can be shiny too you know
<shauno> shiny toys <3  new phone & a mac mini
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: I'm not even going to ask how you know that :P
<diddledan> mac mini.. is it running ubuntu yet?
<mungbean> how much is your fun budget?
<shauno> lol, no
<davmor2> shauno: see should of held out on the new phone :D
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: I used to work in the same office as a credit card clearinghouse for adult sites, and they had a few people regularly checking if those sites complied with their TOS
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: they had to cycle out those people every 2 weeks because of the mind-numbingness of watching pron 40 hours a week
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: yeah, yeah :D
<diddledan> MartijnVdS: sounds horrid
<mungbean> sounds grim
<MartijnVdS> there's weird stuff out there
<diddledan> I suppose there's only so much "fun" you can have in one block, and 8hours straight probably comes close
<diddledan> I'd imagine it to be exhausting work
<MartijnVdS> it's worse than you'd initially think
<MartijnVdS> hence the two-weeks-at-a-time temps
<diddledan> lol
#ubuntu-uk 2013-07-25
<shauno>  /clear
<shauno> oops
<MooDoo> morning all
<MartijnVdS> \o
<diplo> Morning all
<MooDoo> morning diplo how goes it
<diplo> Not to bad thanks, very busy but otherwise good. Yourself MooDoo ?
<MooDoo> diplo: yeah, just reading up on openstack
<dogmatic69> For some reason my inkscape hangs shortly after opening.
<dogmatic69> anyway to trace what is going on?
<MartijnVdS> strace
<dogmatic69> ta
<dogmatic69> ga
<dogmatic69> had this problem before :(
<dogmatic69> its hanging trying to look at some files on my iphone which is not connected.
<diplo> I want to play with that MooDoo, got no hardware to play with now :(
<MooDoo> diplo: me neither at the moment, but I'm getting two shiney new machines at christmas then I'll set up a lab at home.
<diplo> I've just got my server/san setup at work though after a year ( very old ) but it works
<diplo> What I'd really like is to pop to a site where someone is using it, see how someone utilises stuff properly, I've always self taught with no best practises type of working
<diplo> I'd love to see a proper setup at some point.
<MooDoo> yeah i'm just wanting to play, the more I can learn the better i can pop into a new career
<diplo> Exactly what I was thinking, about to start with puppet over the next few days as well
<JamesTait> Good morning all, happy Louise Brown Day! :-D
<directhex> who?
<mungbean> was she the first tt baby?
<mungbean> i had a fascinating facts bok when i was 5
<JamesTait> mungbean, spot on. :)
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<mungbean> if i t remeber rightly, no googling, born 1980 or 1981?
<mungbean> april comes to mind though, maybe that was her middle name?
<JamesTait> mungbean, she's 35 today.
<mungbean> does she have any children herself?
<JamesTait> Not sure where the April is coming from, though.  Her middle name is Joy and her parents are Lesley and John.
<JamesTait> She does - she gave birth to a son in 2006.
<mungbean> these are 30+ yr old memories so i'm a bit (c)rusty...
<JamesTait> I was a bit young to even notice at the time. :)
<mungbean> i was one of these children who liked reading encyclpaedia
<JamesTait> Nothing wrong with that, mungbean. Though I used to do the same, so I might be a bit biased.
<JamesTait> I'm still like that now, always reading up about something, trying to absorb information, learn new stuff.
<JamesTait> I think that's pretty much the summary of a geek. :)
<mungbean> INTJ?
<JamesTait> I think I came out INTP last time.
<JamesTait> But borderline on a couple.
<mungbean> an overriding feature of intj is deep diving into subjects and mastering them
<mungbean> but may be common to INTP too
<MartijnVdS> Different tests put me in INTP or INTJ
<JamesTait> I should look up my results, actually. I've still got them here somewhere.
<MartijnVdS> so I guess I'm in the middle on the J/P spectrum
<mungbean> there's no crossover though, you are one or the other
<mungbean> although it is spectral too :P
<JamesTait> Or just take another Myers Briggs test, I'm sure there are loads online.
<mungbean> intj are supposedly quite rare, which is weird as i work in IT and very many people in IT or on irc seem to be itnj
<mungbean> i hardly know any extroverts
<mungbean> and dislike a lot of them :P
 * JamesTait nods knowingly.
<mungbean> all the 675 phones gone then
<mgdm> What's the point to those tests, apart from curiosity?
<mgdm> I've never done one
<mungbean> it helps you realte with other people types
<mungbean> helps my wife understand me
<mgdm> we did something a bit like that with HR from work, but it was not quite as scientific as the Beano
<mgdm> but it was a different scheme
<mungbean> and when a loud person is blurting out their uninformed opinion and making decisions based on feelings you can understand why they are doing it
<mgdm> I don't have a massive problem with that at the moment, but I suppose if I get 10 minutes...
<mungbean> also if yuo have bright INTJ type in your workplace, you should use them for troubleshooting and ways to imporve systems
<mungbean> because they are hardwired to improve, become specialists and find efficiencies
<mungbean> so it helps to understand types
<mungbean> also in relationships the five love languages is essential to understand. i thought it was airy fariy touchy feely, but itsvery useful to know
<mgdm> Hmmm. :-)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Gosh - Just seem ebuyer's daily mail. Almost a 1TB SSD for Â£450.00. A few years ago I spent that on a 32GB one.
<mungbean> still costs as much as a laptop :D
<SuperGeorge> TheOpenSourcerer: link?
<MooDoo> 450?  wow that's cheap for a TV
<MooDoo> TB
<TheOpenSourcerer> http://www.ebuyer.com/497437-crucial-960gb-m500-ssd-ct960m500ssd1
<mgdm> it's about average for a TV. :P
<MooDoo> lol
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: oooh
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: have you tried the Dark Roast yet? :)
<mgdm> Dark Roast SSDs?
<MartijnVdS> mgdm: beer
<MooDoo> mgdm: do you not keep up with his posts ;)
<mgdm> MooDoo: nope :)
<mungbean> went into home bargains last night and they had some aswesome deals on model kits. got Â£50 worth of kits for Â£15
<TheOpenSourcerer> MartijnVdS: Yes - unfortunately I didn't take any pictures. It was better than I expected it to be. Nowhere near as "syrupy" as some dark beers and still rather refreshing. I'll try and do a quick write up over the weekend.
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: cool :)
<directhex> hm
<directhex> do i want an Enterprise off-the-shelf NAS, or a regular supermicro with too many hotswap bays on it?
<mungbean> for you or company?
<directhex> company
<mungbean> i vote the former
<directhex> price isn't a factor. management overhead is
<MooDoo> get a proper nas not a self built one
<mungbean> what is the budget and capacity?
<directhex> budget is whatever i tell our accountant i need. capacity... ~20T region? plus or minus, given redundancy etc?
<MooDoo> directhex: look at the synology boxes
<mungbean> i'm thinking more equallogic or ibm v7000
<mungbean> iscsi, fc, SAS?
<MooDoo> i want one of these - http://www.synology.com/products/product.php?product_name=DS412%2B&lang=uk
<mungbean> or a mini netapps
<MooDoo> or even http://www.synology.com/products/product.php?product_name=DS1513%2B&lang=uk
<directhex> MooDoo, had been looking at RS3413xs+
<directhex> mungbean, SATA, NAS. i don't need FC or SAS or iSCSI
<MooDoo> directhex: even better :D
<directhex> thecus N12000PRO?
<directhex> oh, "encrypted volumes" is a requirement
<SuperGeorge> woo! the lovely nagstamon guy has added indicator support!
<MartijnVdS> nastygram?
<BigRedS> Oh! I've been meaning to look into that for weeks
<SuperGeorge> https://github.com/HenriWahl/Nagstamon
<SuperGeorge> and it's just a python script so there's nothing to compile :D
<SuperGeorge> oh wow, android 4.3 is gonna have selinux
<mgdm> 'Why is my phone not working?' 'setenforce 0' 'Oh, now it's fine!"
<MooDoo> lol
<dvrr> Hiiiii
 * SuperGeorge chortles at mgdm 
<dvrr> DooMoo:How to run apache tomcat 7 as service  in ubuntu    could you tel me please
<MooDoo> https://www.digitalocean.com/community/articles/how-to-install-apache-tomcat-on-ubuntu-12-04
<MooDoo> oh they have left.
<MooDoo> dvrr: check link above
<dvrr> will check
<dvrr> i will check
<mungbean> basically all the people who search my linkedin profile are in india
<mungbean> or spammers
<mgdm> I get about 2 recruiters a week at the moment
<neuro> or maybe they're in love with you
<neuro> mgdm: them, I tell to eff off
<neuro> make sure you don't have 'seeking employment' at the bottom of your profile
<neuro> caught me out
<mgdm> neuro: I just ignore 'em
<mgdm> ah, I probably do
<neuro> (or whatever it says"
<neuro> cos i had one agency drone telling me that the only reason she got in touch was because it said "seeking employment" or whatever
<neuro> changed it tout suite
<mungbean> i don't mind contact via linkedin
<neuro> then told her to eff off :)
<mungbean> but using my name to then search the company directory to spam me other junk is out of order
<neuro> lol
<neuro> classy
<mungbean> and i get random emails "Bert and Ron"
<mungbean> Bert and Ron are LInux contractors lkooking for work and are CRB checked
<neuro> "Bert and Ron you're my heroes"
<mungbean> i'm not hiring
<mungbean> please take me off your list according the data protection law
<mungbean> nope
<neuro> wait
<neuro> why would you need to be crb checked to do a linux job?
<mungbean> you don't
<neuro> like, why make a point of it?
<mungbean> but its the random crap i gt from agencies
<neuro> yeah
<mungbean> someone gave them my name last year, i suspect a contractor i the company
<neuro> unlucky
<mungbean> and now its got on the agency grapevine
<^2fC> How to I update instead of waiting for it to?
<^2fC> Ubuntu 13.04 that is.
<^2fC> Desktop!
<neuro> can i just say though
<neuro> https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/disclosure-and-barring-service
<neuro> that is an awesome pic
<mungbean> +1
<neuro> ^2fC: just run the update manager?
<^2fC> ah ok :)
<mungbean> erm
<mungbean> are you on 13.04 already, you just wanna update the packages?
<mungbean> my problem is making the stupid update manager window go away
<^2fC> mungbean:  yeah :)
<neuro> i (heart) open government
<neuro> https://www.gov.uk/performance/dashboard
<AlanBell> it is a snake eating an elephant!
<bigcalm> Ello peeps :)
<mgdm> that was an entirely average Wednesday, it seems
<^2fC> updating drivers
<^2fC> not using Open source ones anytmore
<^2fC> :o
<^2fC> seems to crash my doom3 and quake4
<mungbean> how quick is unity at showing files just created?
<mungbean> what i love about synapse is that you save to a file gc1.png, then then dialog closes, and rather than prodding through nautilus, ctrl-space gc1 ...opens *bosh*
<neuro> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jN8LC1aDpk
<davmor2> Morning all
<SuperGeorge> yo
<neuro> lo
<DJones> popey: If you're awake, what was that disposable email address service you mentioned a couple of months back
<mungbean> mailinator?
<DJones> mungbean: popey: Thanks, I'm pretty sure that was it
<mungbean> i sometimes use the swedish version
<mungbean> because less likely to get blocked by sites
 * DJones looks at an invoice at work and wonders if there 'A Lord Satin Wheels' are a sideline for TheOpenSourcerer
<arc__> hello
<MooDoo> arc__: hello :)
<arc__> it is a bit quite in here today :(
<SuperGeorge> MAKE SOME NOOOOISE
<arc__> YEAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
<SuperGeorge> I'm done with making noise now
<SuperGeorge> I can't keep it up
<SuperGeorge> I'm too old for this gumph
<arc__> I am makeing a vid for youtube at the moment
<SuperGeorge> I'm just migrating some sites from one box to another
<arc__> how to install adb in ubuntu
<arc__> how do i clear the screen in terminal
<directhex> "reset"
<SuperGeorge> ctrl l
<neuro> ^L
<arc__> cool thanz
<directhex> and apt-get install android-tools-adb
<arc__> no that does not do it all
<arc__> it has more manual stuff to do
<arc__> that is why i am makeing a vid on ut
<directhex> define "all"
<neuro> define "define"
<neuro> SuperGeorge: i know that feeling
<neuro> i'm doing an emergency 8.04 -> 12.04 migration this w/e
<arc__> why
<neuro> because reasons
<arc__> directthex: that command does not work anyway
<SuperGeorge> neuro: ah, this isn't an emergency, it's just a happening
<SuperGeorge> because we can
<neuro> :)
<SuperGeorge> I've been messing with nameservers this week
<neuro> mine is due to a mate who bailed on doing it :(
<SuperGeorge> I've been moving zones one at a time from one server to another
<neuro> and the colo contract runs out on wednesday :P
<SuperGeorge> eesh!
<SuperGeorge> that doesn't sound any of the funs
<neuro> pain in the bum, but needs to happen
<neuro> it could be worse
<neuro> it's only 46 gig of data
<davmor2> arc__: what version of ubuntu are you on and what is the video for?
<neuro> a few domains
<neuro> the pain bit is email
<SuperGeorge> ugg, yeah
<arc__> ubuntu 12.04.1 lts and it is for installing/putting adb tools on ubuntu
<SuperGeorge> moving email != fun
<neuro> yup
<arc__> there is not many out there
<neuro> i mean i have the procedure down pat, it won't be a problem, but it's just ... brrrrr *chills*
<neuro> don't want to mess it up
<neuro> also the really fun bit is it's 32-bit to 64-bit
<davmor2> arc__: why do you want the adbtools is it for flashing ubuntu to a phone or something else?
<neuro> so if anyone on the box has compiled their own binaries, and for some reason it doesn't work with the lib32 stuff, they can bite me :)
<directhex> arc__, you never said 12.04 - the package is just there and just works in 12.10 and higher
<neuro> arc__: also isn't the install procedure fully documented on android.org?
<SuperGeorge> neuro: lol
<SuperGeorge> good plan :D
<arc__> yes but i find videos easyer to use and to find things out
<arc__> it is a way of learning like some people learn by seeing and doing
<arc__> Rather than reading and questioning your self if you have done it right
<neuro> fair enough
<MartijnVdS> arc__: but often there are no videos, so you just have to follow the guide.
<MartijnVdS> I've found it's a focus thing.
<arc__> that is why i am makeing it
<neuro> but, and i don't want to burst your bubble, searching youtube for 'ubuntu android tools install' comes back with "About 20,900 results"
<neuro> so make sure you have some sort of unique selling point :)
<directhex> do it as a rap!
<neuro> lol
<arc__> neuro: see what the results are
<davmor2> have cats installing it
<neuro> the internet is made of cats
<arc__> they are not all about the adb tools only what the first 3 are
<MartijnVdS> Google have a 3-line guided
<MartijnVdS> 1: download .tar.gz; 2: untar it; 3: run android and install platformtools
 * MartijnVdS fails to see the need for a full-fledged guide for that
<arc__> yes but you have to stuff to bashrc
<MartijnVdS> you don't
<MartijnVdS> everything works fine if you just specify the path
<arc__> like this # Android tools export PATH=${PATH}:~/androidsdk/tools export PATH=${PATH}:~/androidsdk/platform-tools
<arc__> yes but is a bother if you have to keep on specifying the path all the time
<MartijnVdS> arc__: I just cd to ~/androidsdk first, then run platform-tools/adb
<MartijnVdS> and still: how hard is it to follow a 4-5 line guide?
<arc__> it does not work like that
<MartijnVdS> with the simplest possible commands
<arc__> it is a visual thing of learning
<MartijnVdS> no, it's a question of understanding what you'll be doing before doing it
<arc__> look i will make it and i will post it in about 15-20 mins
<arc__> yes but people see they have self confidence
<arc__> when watching it
<MartijnVdS> I avoid videos like that
<selinuxium> Afternoon all   o/
<MartijnVdS> because the person explaining tends to be condescending or wrong (or BOTH)
<MartijnVdS> and puts in background music and weird title screens
<MartijnVdS> \o selinuxium
<neuro> CONFIDENCE INSPIRING!
<neuro> MartijnVdS: remind me not to ask you for second opinions on things ;)
<directhex> guys, if he wants to record a video, he can
<MartijnVdS> neuro: OK ;)
<directhex> no need for the dogpile
<MartijnVdS> directhex: sure :)
<MartijnVdS> directhex: I thought he was *looking* for a howto video, not *making* one
<neuro> aha
<neuro> to quote my mother
<neuro> "do you see what 'thought' did? it pee'd the bed and blamed the blanket!"
<MartijnVdS> à² _à² 
<neuro> i don't know what that means
<neuro> I DON'T SPEAK UNICODE!
<SuperGeorge> dude, you're obviously not very l3378
<SuperGeorge> -8
<shauno> it's a lesson re: questioning your mother.  it's not meant to make sense.  it's meant to test your blind obedience
<neuro> SPRECHEN ZE ENGLISH POR FAVOR!
<MartijnVdS> neuro: ð±
<neuro> what is that?
<davmor2> neuro: it means you're non pep8 compliant and need to be rejected ;)
<neuro> looks like a henry hoover
<SuperGeorge> \/\/3 5|-|0u1d a11 T4l|< l1|<3 T|-|15
<MartijnVdS> neuro: U+1F631
<MartijnVdS> SuperGeorge: d00d!
<neuro> I DON'T SPEAK UNICODE!!!!
<MartijnVdS> neuro: U+1F631 FACE SCREAMING IN FEAR
<neuro> that's like the worst unicode glyph i've ever seen
<shauno> ð±  hah, he's not kidding
<directhex> ð©ð©ð©
<MartijnVdS> directhex: ð±
<neuro> make it stop!
<MartijnVdS> neuro: ð
<neuro> *facepalm*
<davmor2> hammertime
<MartijnVdS> neuro: what about U+1F47E ALIEN MONSTER ?
<MartijnVdS> ð¾
<shauno> hm, odd, that only printed one of them here.  there should be 3
<arc__> who here watch's Hak5 on revision 3
<arc__> or techzilla
<shauno> hm, I thought they'd fixed this .. my irc client still fails at sending multibyte characters  (if its sending 3 characters, it sends 3 bytes.  so 3 unicode characters is 6 bytes, the first 3 are sent, the rest are left on the floor)
<neuro> haven't watched either of those for a long time
<mungbean> i fancied a microwave pasta meal, but they only had the ones for 2 people, although it was on offer at less than what i usually pay for the 1 person one :S
<mungbean> so now i have to eat half and throw half away
<arc__> waste ?!
<neuro> "have to"? :)
<mungbean> or what else?
<MartijnVdS> http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ButThouMust
<mungbean> eat a meal for 2 people?
<neuro> EAT IT ALL MAN!
<arc__> yes
<mungbean> my belly will reject it after half way
<MartijnVdS> neuro: your caps lock seems to be sticky today ;)
<arc__> you should watch man vs food
<neuro> shift key, my friend, i am a caps ninja
<MartijnVdS> neuro: it's still sticky
<mungbean> i need to leave room for crisps too
<arc__> lol
<neuro> mungbean: you're saying your stomach takes a (presumably) 400g microwave meal perfectly and nothing more?
<mungbean> +crisps
<arc__> that is nothing
<neuro> so don't eat the crisps, muppet :)
<neuro> and polish off a bit more of the meal so it's lest wasty
<mungbean> a day w/out crisps is like a day w/out sunshine
<neuro> anyway, speaking of unhealthy foodstuffs
<neuro> i'm nipping out to try one of the new mcdonalds meals before tesco gets here with my shopping
<MartijnVdS> irn bru?
<arc__> my brother is a body builder so to get a lot of protein he eats 1 whole chicken a day
<arc__> and other body builder supplements and etc.
<mungbean> i am scrawny
<neuro> never understood body building
<arc__> supplements ?
<neuro> anyway, to the unhealthy place!
<arc__> he goes to the gym every day for 2 hours after work
<neuro> where i shall probably be buying one of these: http://www.mcdonalds.co.uk/ukhome/product_nutrition.chicken.871.mediterranean-chicken.html
<shauno> my ex was a powerlifter.  that seemed balmy enough.  bodybuilding is basically the same regime, but with the addition of starvation and dehydration
<mungbean> your ex was male or female?
<mungbean> :S
<shauno> female lol
<arc__> cool
<mungbean> just checking. bit unusal for female..bit of a lifestyle choice that dominates, surely?
<shauno> it was a contributing factor in the 'ex' bit, yeah
<mungbean> my body shuts off after the 400g are eaten
<arc__> why
<mungbean> because 2500 calories a day are normal to eat
<mungbean> my stomach knows what a normal meal is
<mungbean> ~or "has been trained to"
<MartijnVdS> from someone I know:
<MartijnVdS> > Going to need a moving company soon- Moving across London. Any recommendations?
<arc__> i have just converted my ogv to avi and not i have really bad lip sync
<mungbean> my company were ok but i got burgled soon after so meh
<arc__> does youtube now support ogv files now ?
<MartijnVdS> arc__: I think that works, but mp4 might work better.. or webm
<arc__> hello
<arc__> it is a bit quite here now for some reason
<MooDoo> arc__: always is at dinner :d
<arc__> lol
<mungbean> think i managed 5/8 of the meal
<arc__> here is my crap vid http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dqHynTb0yXE&feature=youtu.be
<mungbean> is it of a cat installing ubuntu?
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: it's that easy now?
<arc__> no it is a vid of installing adb tools
<arc__> lol
 * mungbean prefers dogs anyway
<arc__> you so harsh
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: psh, cats > dogs
<MartijnVdS> dogs are so needy
<mungbean> friendly
<mungbean> clever
<mungbean> loyal
<arc__> my speaking in the vid
<arc__> wierd
<diddledan> the majority of technical guys prefer cats according to a survey that I don't have a link to
<arc__> i have a choc lab
<MartijnVdS> arc__: are you Willy Wonka?
<diddledan> mmm, choc
<MartijnVdS> he had loads of choc labs
<diddledan> tasty
<arc__> and his name is rolo
<arc__> lol
<diddledan> he's got a gooey centre?
<arc__> yes i will see i can put on a pic of him
<mungbean> http://i.imgur.com/sKFLXuL.jpg
<mungbean> my dog using the internet
<arc__> that is cute
<diddledan> nawww, cute cute
<mungbean> cats can't do this either
<mungbean> http://i.imgur.com/S7R17il.jpg
<diddledan> they can't get taken for a walk by a baby?
<mungbean> mush mush...pull harder doggy
<mungbean> she pretty much pulls the buggy up the street herself...jack russell power
<arc__> do you like to see windows fail
<arc__> then watch this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QF0ETsgpxKc
<mungbean> one of the self serve tills in tesco has had a BSOD for last 3 days
<arc__> at tesco's self serveice i found a Â£5 note alone in the money out slot
<MartijnVdS> arc__: if you don't touch it, it'll swallow it again and return it to the rightful owner
<MartijnVdS> arc__: 's account
<mungbean> that was minw!
<mungbean> ate too much food, need a sleep
<arc__> it won't i had to call over the tesco guy
<arc__> to find out who it belongs to
<neuro> arc__: can i give you a couple of suggestions re video?
<arc__> yes plx
<neuro> 1) write a script beforehand and follow it
<neuro> 2) rehearse before recording
<neuro> 3) buy a popguard
<arc__> what is a popguard
<neuro> 4) learn the terminology of things i.e. ~ = tilde, not "wavy thing" ;)
<neuro> google it if you don't know
<shauno> I had to do that in Budapest.  very awkward.  lady at tesco gave me the wrong change, 100 HUF more than I should have got.  so I went and queued again to give it back, and blah blah blah.  later found out that 100 HUF is about 30 pence
<neuro> the reason why i say script it and rehearse it
<neuro> is to stop lots of pauses and dead air
<arc__> it is video for noob's and new people like me
<arc__> is there any good video editors for ubuntu
<mungbean> take neuro's advice, it is v constructive (i haven't wtched the video as i'm at work)
<mungbean> but its good general advice
<neuro> i'm being honest here, not trying to slap you down or anything
<arc__> yeah thanz neuro
<neuro> you've done more than i've ever done in terms of doing a video tutorial
<arc__> i needed the wake up call
<arc__> what ?
<neuro> what?
<marxjohnson> KDEnlive is a pretty good video editor on Ubuntu
<neuro> yeah, do the screen recording
<neuro> then edit it down
<arc__> how to install /download it
<neuro> then lay a separately recorded commentary on top
<marxjohnson> apt-get install kdenlive, or use Ubuntu Software Centre
<marxjohnson> same with installing anything really :)
<arc__> see you in a bit
<neuro> :)
<mungbean> openshot has almost zero learning curve though
<mungbean> like movie maker on windows
<mungbean> (is ithat still around?)
<neuro> blimeh, mcd's went a bit overboard on the peppers in this chicken thing
<marxjohnson> I think so they did a kickstarter not long ago
<mungbean> i mean windows MM
<mungbean> :P
<neuro> lol
<marxjohnson> oh, yes and no
<neuro> can imagine microsoft doing a kickstarter campaign
<neuro> "we want to make a new microsoft phone, but we need your help"
<neuro> "we think this target of $1.2bn is achievable"
<mungbean> phone has been on 5.7m for ages
<marxjohnson> There's a Windows MM in current versions of windows, but its called something like "Live Movie Maker" and they've removed the timeline to "simplify" it
<neuro> "because we've pointed every windows vista, 7 and 8 install to autopledge \o/"
<MartijnVdS> blender can edit videos
<MartijnVdS> if you're feeling lucky :)
<marxjohnson> so can dd :p
<neuro> lol
<MartijnVdS> marxjohnson: sure, but at least blender has a gui for it
<mungbean> my theory is that anything above $700 kills the rate of purchases
<marxjohnson> mungbean: seems to be
<neuro> grep "7" foo.mkv > edited.mkv
<neuro> or the community is just tapped out for now
<neuro> the spikes are initial launch, and the new tiers
<neuro> betcha there'll be another around the 30th-1tst
<neuro> s/1tst/1st/
<neuro> pay days :)
<marxjohnson> yeah, Canonical must have some marketing up their sleeves to keep the momentum. I dont think they have any illusions that this is a big goal to hit
<MartijnVdS> tier or rush?
<mungbean> not even 1/4 way yet
<AlanBell> I hope it will go above the biggest ever kickstarter
<Linux_guylol> Hi again
<Linux_guylol> Using my phone now to irc
<neuro> did pebble do more than veronica mars?
<AlanBell> dunno, both were $10M ish I think
<Linux_guylol> I am arc__
<neuro> I AM NEURO
<DJones> Pebble was beaten recently by something
<marxjohnson> I'm brian of nazareth and so's my wife
<AlanBell> http://www.kickstarter.com/discover/most-funded
<neuro> ah nice
<Linux_guylol> I hate to change name because my pc took my normal name
<neuro> ah pebble, $10.2m
<neuro> ouya was $8.5m
<MartijnVdS> oculus?
<mungbean> what's the summary of the ouya situation?
<directhex> edge would be #1 crowdsourced project
<mungbean> the tldr version
<MartijnVdS> oh, only 2.43M
<neuro> $2.4m for oculus
<marxjohnson> if it gets >$10.2m but doesn't reach it's goal, does that still count as a record breaker do you reckon?
<directhex> pebble #3
<neuro> it might be the most pledged
<directhex> #2 is star citizen
<neuro> oh yeah
<neuro> forgot about that
<AlanBell> what is that?
<neuro> chris roberts' new thing
<neuro> basically wing commander but open world
<Linux_guylol> Is good as fxs
<AlanBell> marxjohnson: nope, but I am sure it will be claimed as such
<neuro> indiegogo must be hoping it'll succeed too
<AlanBell> it could raise the most promised crowd  money evar, whilst also missing the target by the biggest margin evar - so it will be claimed by some as a success and others as a failure, like most canonical projects.
<neuro> they'd stand to make $1.28m in commission if it gets funded
<neuro> leaving $29.2m for phones
<AlanBell> yup, if I was them I would be doing everything possible to get people talking about it
<Linux_guylol> I'm eating a pot noodle
<neuro> exactly
<AlanBell> neuro: they are VAT inclusive apparently, so $6M or so to HMRC
<MartijnVdS> http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2013/jul/25/ubuntu-edge-cheaper-price-crowdfunding?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter
<neuro> ooft
<shauno> it feels like the ramping price would work against them though.  take the natural fall-off and make it worse
<mungbean> thats obscenely high commision
<mungbean> i'm sure they put a ceiling on it
<mungbean> during negotiations
<AlanBell> doubt it
<neuro> mungbean: if you run a flexible funding campaign, and you don't make your goal, the commission jumps to 9%
<neuro> instead of 4%
<mungbean> given teh possibility of going to the competition, then i'm sure a deal can/was brokered
<neuro> kickstarter is trying to not be a shop
<AlanBell> indeed, kickstarter wouldn't have it
<mungbean> indiegogo has a silly name
<neuro> says the guy called mungbean
<marxjohnson> lol
<AlanBell> you need a working prototype and not look too much like pre-orders for kickstarter
<mungbean> *shock*
<mungbean> mungbean isn't my real name, its mungo jerry
<directhex> so... the Edge's battery
<neuro> nonremovable
<neuro> has pixie dust inside
<directhex> featuring magical battery technology which nobody has actually finished inventing yet
<MartijnVdS> directhex: The Edge runs on batteries?
<Linux_guylol> Are you talking about the ubuntu edge
<neuro> no
<mungbean> nonremovable = showstopper for me
<neuro> we're talking about U2's Edge
<neuro> he runs on batteries
<MartijnVdS> like the bunny from the battery commercials
<neuro> 1024 AA batteris
<Linux_guylol> Lol
<neuro> and a couple of Ds to power his fingers
<AlanBell> silicone annode or something
<neuro> i think sabdfl might have made it up
<neuro> also, sili*cone*?
<AlanBell> hope it isn't too explodey, like other high energy density things sometimes are
<directhex> AlanBell, silicon anode, at its current stage in development, is much more explodey
<neuro> never a good term for a battery, "explodey"
<Linux_guylol> Being a young engineer this is interesting
<Linux_guylol> Cell=1 battery
<directhex> AlanBell, although it's never been developed on a scale large enough to put in a phone. small proof-of-concept cells only
<neuro> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanowire_battery
<neuro> good grief, why didn't they call it THAT in the description?
<neuro> geeks would have gone nuts
<neuro> "nanowire batteries? shut up and take my money!"
<neuro> DOES IT HAVE BORG NANOPROBES LOL
<ormiret> Linux_guylol: originally/technically a battery si a collection of connected cells but there are a loads of single cells that people call batteries now.
<Linux_guylol> My engineering teacher tells me it is still called cell/cells
<diddledan> ormiret: originally/technically a battery is a gun emplacement
<mungbean> https://play.google.com/store/devices/details/Nexus_7_16GB?id=nexus_7_16gb_2013
<MartijnVdS> Sorry! Devices on Google Play is not available in your country yet.
<mungbean> anyone know if the old nexus7 are going cheeeap
<shauno> go on, call them accumulators, you won't sound old all  :p
<neuro> eeeebaaaay
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: if you can find a retailer..
<marxjohnson> I'm wondering if I should get a new one so I can use my old one to run Ubuntu Touch
<neuro> you'll be waiting a while, it seems
<neuro> just checked currys
<neuro> "Order now. Availability: 13/09/2013"
<diddledan> wait, google have a new nexus?
<neuro> the old 16GB 7 is 149 quid "Save Â£50.99"
<marxjohnson> Gah, dont know where I was looking earier, but it said tuesday
<mungbean> did anyone read about the hordes of geeks complaining about their n7 going slow due to the SSD going bad slowly?
<marxjohnson> nope :)
<neuro> marxjohnson: could be just currys guessing
<mungbean> http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/googles-new-nexus-7-tablet-yours-for-19999-8731519.html
<mgdm> mungbean: I heard that about the N4
<mungbean> wireless charging
<mungbean>  Jellybean version 4.3, which will offer support for multi-users (meaning parents can create logins for children with restricted content)
<neuro> amazon doing the old 16GB for 169 quid
<Linux_guylol> On boxing day my bro got a arcos 80 colbalt for Â£59
<neuro> and they only have 10 left
<mungbean> anything more than 119 is a rip
<neuro> you think?
<neuro> i think i paid 200 for mine
<neuro> walked into tesco and bought one
<mungbean> its a rip, now the the new one is announced,
<neuro> but unavailable
<mungbean> ok, when available
<neuro> well it's not available yet, so we don't know what retailers will discount the old one to :)
<neuro> ebuyer don't have any old 16GBs listed
<neuro> they're doing the 32GB for 180
<neuro> new 16 and 32 listed for preorder, no availability date
<neuro> 199.98 and 239.99 respectively
<Linux_guylol> Get the xperia z tablet
<dogmatic69> anyone know how to make less scroll faster?
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: use a faster terminal? :)
<neuro> mash on the space button faster
<dogmatic69> MartijnVdS: :(
<neuro> xperia z?
<neuro> that *starts* at 400 quid!
<dogmatic69> just using terminator, its like 500ms between lines holding down return
<mungbean> dogmatic69: --max-forw-scroll=n ?
<neuro> why are you holding down return?
<mungbean> oh, that sounds like slow disk/net
<dogmatic69> neuro: to scroll...
<mungbean> space bar you numpty
<neuro> space bar for hot page down action
<dogmatic69> that is 'page down'
<dogmatic69> I want fast line by line
<neuro> cat
<diddledan> I use the arra keys
<mungbean> why?
<mungbean> is it a large file?
<MartijnVdS> use 'cat' instead
<dogmatic69> not particularly
<MartijnVdS> scrolls very fast, line by line
<mungbean> alias cat=dog
<dogmatic69> actually its git diff
<neuro> and use your scrollback
<mungbean> use vim
<mgdm> git diff | vim -R -
<MartijnVdS> vim's diff mode = ++
<mgdm> would probably do it
<dogmatic69> mungbean: I did not ask for a new editor
<neuro> lol
<neuro> TWO EDITORS ENTER, ONE EDITOR LEAVES
<mungbean> it's very old don't worry
<MartijnVdS> neuro: JOE vs EDLIN
<neuro> hehe
<Dave2> ed, surely
<neuro> cat << EOM > file
<neuro> this will slowly descend into this: http://neuro.me.uk/blog/2009/03/22/the-four-ubuntu-yorkshiremen
<neuro> i can tell
<ormiret> M-x win-editor-wars
<MooDoo> omg that's the best thing ever
<Linux_guylol> Is there a way to change where the package install in ubuntu
<neuro> you're welcome
<marxjohnson> Linux_guylol: not really, apt deals with it for you
<mungbean> it's generally a bad idea
<mungbean> why do you want to do it?
<neuro> no reason is good enough :)
<marxjohnson> true, but if he's trying to achieve something specific there's probably a better way
<Linux_guylol> Ok but I am running out of space in  my ubuntu partition and I have a spare 13 tv partition
<mungbean> i learned to ask why, in case no path is set,m or something simples
<diddledan> lol @ the ubuntu yorkshiremen
<mungbean> your ubuntu partition is / ?
<neuro> i should try and write more stuff like that
<mungbean> is /home part of that partition?
<diddledan> thing is.. I could be one of those yorkshiremen ! :-p
<diddledan> only .. like .. not yorkshireish
<neuro> boot into live cd or whatever, mount / partition, mount new partition on /mnt, move stuff to /mnt, edit fstab appropriately, reboot
<neuro> dangerous as hell, but doable
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: "yorkie"?
<Linux_guylol>  /Dev/sda2
<marxjohnson> or if you've used LVM, just add the spare partition to the logical volume
<neuro> you're out of your element, Donnie
<marxjohnson> and expand the filesystem
<marxjohnson> although /dev/sda2 suggest you havent used LVM
<mungbean> usually if /home isn't separate i'd receommend it as a future project anyway..
<neuro> i nfs mount /home from one of my NASes ;)
<Linux_guylol> I'm not in ubuntu at the moment
<neuro> root@saratoga:~# df -h /home
<neuro> Filesystem       Size  Used Avail Use% Mounted on
<neuro> cargobay1:/data  5.5T  3.2T  2.3T  59% /data/cargobays/1
<marxjohnson> Linux_guylol: how well do you understand partitioning and filesystems?
<Linux_guylol> Well put it this way I have just made the move to ubuntu and I am a noob at everthing
<marxjohnson> Ok, do you have anything on Ubuntu that you'd be upset about losing?
<Linux_guylol> My whole web setup
<Linux_guylol> Adb
<marxjohnson> "web setup" as in internet connection and browsers, or web development?
<Linux_guylol> No auto correction I mean adb setup
<marxjohnson> aha
<mungbean> if it's all in /home
<mungbean> but /home is in /
<neuro> i would tread very carefully here
<Linux_guylol> Current 23 gb
<mungbean> then you could create a separate /data and do ln -s /data /home/stuff
<marxjohnson> that sounds like a good workaround for a newbie
<Linux_guylol> Oh ok
<neuro> danger!
<mungbean> high voltage!
<mungbean> achtung!
<neuro> when we touch!
<mungbean> when we kiss!
<Linux_guylol> What
<mungbean> eww
<marxjohnson> gives you more space without you risking what you've got. I'd suggest really reading up on partitioning before you go messing with it though
<neuro> *guitar riff*
<neuro> yes
<neuro> what marxjohnson said
<marxjohnson> I blew away my parent's whole hard drive first time I tried partitioning
<marxjohnson> and I was *sure* I knew what I was doing
<neuro> :)
<neuro> we've all done that
<neuro> i'm sure
<mungbean> at home i share my mp3s and vides with wifey so store them all on /data/video /data/mp3 etc
<mungbean> and symlink into homedir for each user
<Linux_guylol> I messed around with gparted so
<neuro> why symlink?
<mungbean> then we run picasa and have a joined up library
<neuro> smb?
<mungbean> all on the same machine
<neuro> i try not to understand other people's file storage conventions
<neuro> mine are equally mental, but equally sane to me
<marxjohnson> ,].]
<Linux_guylol> Cool
<neuro> i use /data everywhere but mount stuff on top
<neuro> be it local disk, nfs, fuse, whatever
<diddledan> /data = websites for me
<neuro> so /data/home /data/media /data/backups etc
<neuro>  /data/web :)
<Linux_guylol> Randomly deleting stuff in gparted is my thing
<MartijnVdS> /srv/sitename for me
<neuro> you freaky UNIX person you
<diddledan> /data/sitename/htdocs
<Linux_guylol> Lol
<mungbean> if you haven't lost data with a partinioning cockup then you haven't lived
<diddledan> then I have other stuff in /data/sitename like "project" and deploy.sh which contain the git repo and a script to overlay the git onto wordpress in htdocs
<neuro> i've lost data to RAID cockups
<mungbean> funnily it was using windows XP diskpart that i cocked up
<neuro> 5TB across 6 USB drives :P
<neuro> NEVAR AGAIN
<neuro> hence, the NASes
<MartijnVdS> neuro: http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2009/05/five-disk-floppy-raid-4mb-of-blistering-fast-storage/ ?
<neuro> ha
<marxjohnson> RAID across USB drives? that's brave :)
<diddledan> lmao
<Linux_guylol> I somehow ended up deleting my laptop recovery partition
<neuro> marxjohnson: doing it just fine now
<neuro> 2x1TB in RAID1
<mungbean> if you delete a partition you can recreate it and the data is still there
<neuro> but 6x1TB in RAID6 was a bit too funky
<mungbean> if you don't format anything
<diddledan> thing a lot of folk miss about raid is that it doesn't excuse lack of backups
<marxjohnson> neuro: I imagine it was
<neuro> absolutely
<Linux_guylol> Yeah just 2x40 gb
<Linux_guylol> HDDs
<neuro> looking forward to getting faster broadband for my parentals
<neuro> proper offsite backup \o/
<Linux_guylol> I have git vergin media fibre top package
<neuro> ew
<neuro> Virgin "We Love Traffic Management, We Do" Media
<Linux_guylol> Yes !
<Linux_guylol> What :)
<MartijnVdS> Oh they're calling the pron filter "traffic management" now?
<neuro> um, no
<Linux_guylol> Nooooooooooooo
<Linux_guylol> Lol
<marxjohnson> I've got virgin ADSL which is pretty much the same price as the cable I was on before I moved. It's a joke (hence why I'm moving)
<neuro> if you dl over X amount of data in time period Y (dependent on what package you're on), you get throttled to about 25% of your published speed
<neuro> marxjohnson: virgin national, eeeeew, unlucky
<neuro> all of the cost, none of the benefits
<marxjohnson> yeah, I was in an 18 month contract and moved after 12
<marxjohnson> so had to stick with them
<neuro> :(
<marxjohnson> but that's over now :)
<neuro> :)
<MartijnVdS> neuro: wow.. data caps on wired internet
<MartijnVdS> neuro: haven't had those in .nl for.. 10 years now?
<Linux_guylol> It is the best 100mbs
<neuro> MartijnVdS: shush :)
<neuro> it's really not
<MartijnVdS> neuro: ever since we got rid of dialup :)
<neuro> i don't want 100Mbps that can be throttled
<Linux_guylol> It is
<neuro> so i have 2x 80Mbps that won't be throttled
<neuro> or shaped
<Linux_guylol> It isnt
<neuro> or "managed"
<Linux_guylol> Fast torrent downloads
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: yeah I download loads I've only ever hit the limit testing Psychonauts of four different desktops apparently 4x4.2gb is enough to trigger it :)
<neuro> Virgin Media XXL100
<neuro> When does it apply? 4PM-11PM
<neuro> 1 Hour threshold: 4500MB
<neuro> 1 Hour reduced speed: 70Mbps (-30%)
<mungbean> discovered that a large blob of blue tac is a very good tress toy
<neuro> 2 Hour threshold: 5750MB
<mungbean> stress
<davmor2> neuro: cause all the school kids are home and nail the network
<mungbean> never going with Vmedia again
<neuro> 2 Hour reduced speed: 60Mbps (-40%)
<Linux_guylol> Just got to have the right stuff
<mungbean> they overprovision and screw you
<neuro> Linux_guylol: i appreciate you're on a phone right now, but ... http://my.virginmedia.com/traffic-management/traffic-management-policy-thresholds.html
<neuro> their traffic management policies are public and apply to all speeds, except maybe 300Mbps
<neuro> applies from 11am-11pm at weekends too
<Linux_guylol> Slowly loading
<Linux_guylol> Come on my dad is a telephone engineer so he knows the best
<neuro> oh, and they throttle p2p and nntp
<neuro> lol wat
<neuro> has your dad ever worked for an ISP?
<neuro> are you really going to tell someone who *has* worked for an ISP, and who has just given you the public traffic management policies for your provider, that your provider doesn't do traffic management?
<Linux_guylol> No :/
<directhex> i just use bt infinity. because internets!
<Linux_guylol> I don't think
<dogmatic69> infinity ftw
<diddledan> BT ftl
<Linux_guylol> Is it any good fir torrents
<marxjohnson> *sigh*
<directhex> i have no idea
<directhex> most of my monthly traffic is steam downloads
<mungbean> i don't think i've ever torrented anything except linux isos
<Linux_guylol> Ok
<neuro> ok, i'll be the scapegoat
<neuro> yes, bt infinity works peachy with torrents
<Linux_guylol> Cool
 * neuro wonders what his usage was this month
<directhex> i normally do about 250G a month
<marxjohnson> I've not literally no idea how much I use, might start tracking that
<Linux_guylol> Wow that is a lot
<mungbean> my traffic is just created by me hitting refresh on indiegogo
<marxjohnson> got*
<directhex> How does this compare
<directhex> Your average monthly usage is
<directhex> 236.65 GB
<directhex> Your usage for this month is 213.8 GB
<directhex>  145.33 GB downloaded
<directhex>  68.47 GB uploaded
<neuro> "Your usage for this month is 405.1 GB (337.76 GB downloaded 67.34 GB uploaded)"
<neuro> "How does this compare:  Your average monthly usage is 1003.69 GB"
<Linux_guylol> What do you upload
<diddledan> 200GB is my cap and I keep just inside it by being frugal. if I wasn't going to get charged for going over I'd download much more
<diddledan> 200GB is barely enough
<neuro> what do i upload? none of your business :)
<davmor2> neuro: light weight this month then
<neuro> aye
<Linux_guylol> Lol
<directhex> neuro clearly does naked webcam sessions. big bandwidth user
<diddledan> sweet, what's the url?
<diddledan> wait, I mean /msg neuro
<diddledan> :-p
<Linux_guylol> Listen to daft punk tron legacy drezzed
<neuro> according to my pfsense stats, my sky connection has downloaded 245GB in the last 30 days (2.65Mbps 95th %ile), BT 451.71GB (5.42Mbps) and aggregate IPv6 traffic is 48.5GB
<neuro> Linux_guylol: i did. when it came out. ages ago.
<neuro> :)
<Linux_guylol> Aggressive download time
<neuro> diddledan: shhh, you know you're one of my top subscribers!
<mungbean> weird pic http://imgur.com/PmmDw5q
<neuro> Linux_guylol: not really
<neuro> my record on my sky line alone is about 950GB in a month
<Linux_guylol> For me a phone downloading random linux is it is
<neuro> i think i did 20-30 gig on Three one month, ages ago
<neuro> wifi tether ftw
<mungbean> is this mainly watching programmes/films?
<mungbean> i don't watch that much telly
<neuro> all sorts of shenanigans
 * mungbean still does the book thing
<Linux_guylol> Lol
<neuro> media, backups, work stuff ...
<mungbean> i carry a disk to work and upload to glacier from there :P
<mungbean> 1GB internet ftw
<neuro> 9 times out of 10 if i listen to an album in itunes on this mac, it's coming off itunes match, so there's 60-200 meg right there
<Linux_guylol> Just downloding utorrent for leaga activitys
<neuro> yeah yeah
<Linux_guylol> Lol ducks
<neuro> torrent over 3g = fail
<Linux_guylol> 3 grams ?
<neuro> um, ok
<marxjohnson> "3 grams of internet please, shopkeep"
<neuro> that'll be 3 and sixpence pleaes
<neuro> INTERNET, SEVENTIES STYLE
<Linux_guylol> Lol
<Linux_guylol> Ubuntu
<neuro> "Look, 1200 baud!!! ZOMG!"
 * neuro remembers when BT Kilostream lines were teh awesome
 * marxjohnson doesnt
<marxjohnson> first modem was 56k
<neuro> ran a webserver over it :)
<marxjohnson> i dont know I'm born
<neuro> nope
 * neuro is old, apparently
<Linux_guylol> Whydoes 3 block torrent sites
<neuro> haha
<neuro> because they have a business model to maintain
<diddledan> because the BPI told them to
<MooDoo> same with virgin
<neuro> also, bittorrent + CGNAT = bad things
<Linux_guylol> Dank business model
<Linux_guylol> I mean damm
<diddledan> I've never understood CGNAT
<neuro> it's evil
<diddledan> indeed
<neuro> BT are talking about using it for light use customers
<diddledan> it just doesn't seem to compute to me
<Linux_guylol> What is it
<neuro> it makes sense in a way, especially in the face of v4 exhaustion
<neuro> Carrier Grade NAT, google it
<MartijnVdS> \o/ IPv6
<diddledan> erm.. ipv6 has been available now since 2000?
<neuro> ha
<neuro> tho BT are also talking about starting a v6 rollout this year
<MartijnVdS> neuro: a lot of my home traffic is v6
<neuro> virgin occasionally make noises about it
<MartijnVdS> neuro: Dutch news sites are mostly v6 capable
<Linux_guylol> I will imagine it
<MartijnVdS> neuro: government sites too, Google, Youtube, Facebook as ewll
<neuro> MartijnVdS: oh shush, mister I Live In An Enlightened Society, Telecoms-wise
<MartijnVdS> neuro: we don't have 4g though
<neuro> awww
<mungbean> whether we have ipc6 is a bit irrelevant , innit?
<neuro> a lot of us don't have 4g here either :)
<neuro> mungbean: depends on your point of view
<mungbean> customer
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: ipv6 is VERY useful to have
<neuro> again, depends
<neuro> there are different types of customer
<Linux_guylol> Bring back dial up and viruses
<neuro> um, no
<MartijnVdS> IPv6 makes life of the protocol designer easier
<neuro> makes the life of the router easier too
<MartijnVdS> The reason video-conference protocols suck is NAT
<neuro> no need to worry about NAT
<neuro> and VPNs
<neuro> and gaming
<MartijnVdS> yeah
<neuro> no more "oh you need to open ports blah blah and blah to Get Stuff Done"
<diddledan> basically NAT is and always was a second-class solution looking for a problem
<neuro> well, the problem was always a clear one
<MartijnVdS> neuro: well, you might need to open ports to a specific host -- home routers will block incoming traffic by default
<neuro> v4 exhaustion
<diddledan> usually the problem was one that it created :-p
<MartijnVdS> neuro: it'll become a *firewall* instead of a NAT gateway
<neuro> well yeah
<neuro> but you just talk back over the egress port
<mungbean> i have a load of unused public ipc4 addreses
<neuro> tut tut
<Linux_guylol> I don't understand any of this :()
<mungbean> coupla class Cs at least
<neuro> REALLY?
<neuro> i mean, hang on
<mungbean> yep
<neuro> let me first chide you for saying "class C"
<neuro> but really?!
<MartijnVdS>  /24s
<diddledan> how much?
<diddledan> (money)
<diddledan> :-p
<neuro> HOW MUCH FOR ZE WOMEN!
<mungbean> i don't own them personally but i have about 8 /24 under my control
<mungbean> only using half of them
<diddledan> aah
<mungbean> i can spin up my own services etc on them tho
<neuro> good grief, sir :)
<neuro> all those starving internet connections and you're hoarding!
<diddledan> I think at work we've got a few /28s
<mungbean> ibm , sun and MS prob own millinos
<neuro> don't get me started on that lot
<neuro> "oh hai, we has /8s, want some? TOUGH!"
<mungbean> lots of JANET institutions have a couple of /16s each uni
<neuro> to be fair, they do get used
<Linux_guylol> Who likes star wars
<mungbean> they had silly rules about not NATing though
<neuro> makes things easier to manage
<marxjohnson> oi, nothing wrong with JANET institions ;)
<neuro> lol
<mungbean> the not nat'ing is silly
<neuro> NATing is silly, if you can prevent it
<Linux_guylol> Lol
<mungbean> bunch of hpc nodes?
<neuro> i mean look at it this way
<neuro> there's no way apple are using an entire /8
<mungbean> every desktop user getting their own public IP? craziness
<mgdm> my Uni had a /16
<neuro> what's wrong with that?
<neuro> as long as the firewall(s) is(are) protecting them
<mgdm> every computer on the campus had a 'real' IP (though firewalled)
<Linux_guylol> What way backwards ?
<neuro> mgdm: gla? strath?
<neuro> not gcal? :)
<mungbean> i came from private -> public secotr so i'm trained to NAT
<neuro> i've never worked for the public sector, at least not directly
<mungbean> do you want to?
<mgdm> neuro: HW
<neuro> nope
<mungbean> i haz lots of jobs
<neuro> mgdm: ohhhh
<neuro> was contracted out to NHS, SEPA, Scottish Office, Essex County Council on occasion as a consultant
<neuro> yeeeeeears ago
<Linux_guylol> Im hireing for minimum wage
<neuro> good luck with that
<neuro> mgdm: think i went to hw once, can't remember why
<neuro> might have been picking up a printer off someone or some other such madness
<diddledan> the co that I work for does websites on behalf of several public sector bodies
<neuro> or giving someone a lift
<Linux_guylol> You get a free t-shirt
<neuro> very hazy
<diddledan> we've got an evil setup in terms of servers tho
<diddledan> any sane person would cry
<diddledan> though thankfully it's all automated via a somewhat clunky perl script
<mungbean> Linux_guylol: wher u live?
<Linux_guylol> The dark side of servers of the galaxy
<Linux_guylol> Coventry
<neuro> Linux_guylol: do you know what a minimum wage costs for a year?
<neuro> over 10 grand
<mungbean> double
<Linux_guylol> Oh sh**
<neuro> not including what an employer has to pay out in NI contributions
<Linux_guylol> N
<Linux_guylol> Oooooo
<Linux_guylol> Coventry is the best in the uk
<neuro> for what?
<Linux_guylol> I am joining the first Lego league
<Linux_guylol> For being awesome
<neuro> http://31.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m69a1g5C0u1rvzw0uo1_500.gif
<diddledan> wow, the fundraiser has seriously slowed down now the 625$ is sold out
<neuro> to be expected, really
<Linux_guylol> Stupid gif
<neuro> http://i1.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/117/129/NOU.gif#no%20u%20gif%20240x232
<diddledan> stupid gifs have more knowledge than you might think
<mungbean> people probably holding on to wait for a better deal
<mungbean> big money vs bigger money
<diddledan> that second gif is freakily 3d
<Linux_guylol> And the best money is 1p
<diddledan> gotta love the invasion of the body snatchers tho
<neuro> :)
<neuro> OOOOOOOWWWWWAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
<neuro> *point*
<Linux_guylol> 1
<Linux_guylol> I'm 14
<neuro> ok
<neuro> and?
<marxjohnson> well done
<Linux_guylol> Yay
<neuro> http://media.tumblr.com/772a9c560f0864c4d89414541ae835ef/tumblr_inline_mpl48vJTUP1qz4rgp.gif
<Linux_guylol> Lol
<diddledan> precocious little brat
<Linux_guylol> :)
<neuro> i was over at my folks on sunday
<neuro> return of the jedi was on
<diddledan> \o/
<neuro> and i pointed out to my mum what one of the most egregious lucas tweaks was
<neuro> i.e. douchebag anakin appearing at the end rather than redeemed old anakin
<neuro> and i expected her not to understand
<neuro> but she totally got it
<neuro> "but luke has never seen young anakin"
<neuro> "YES, EXACTLY!"
<diddledan> wait, they did what?!
<Linux_guylol> The ubuntu kid
<neuro> you haven't seen the archive editions of ROTJ?
<diddledan> lucas sucks doorknobs
<Linux_guylol> Why did George sell it to disney
<neuro> when the DVDs got reissued in 2004, they made more tweaks
<neuro> that was one of them
<diddledan> ergh
<diddledan> I've not seen the more recent variations
<neuro> Linux_guylol: because he owned Lucasfilm outright
<mungbean> arning: rpc.idmapd appears not to be running. All uids will be mapped to the nobody uid.
<neuro> so he got a ton of cash and a ton of disney shares
<mungbean> guys, any ideas?!?!?
<neuro> diddledan: there's more in the blurays
<mungbean> on a prod server and getting this error
<diddledan> aparently han solo is a good guy now and shoots only after he's been shot at
<mungbean> rpcidmap IS running
<neuro> diddledan: when vader picks up the emperor at the end?
<neuro> they put in another NOOOOOOOOO
<diddledan> mungbean: what error?
<Linux_guylol> No I mean duany is going to runi the  awesomebus of it
<neuro> diddledan: if you want your childhood to be further messed with ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGxnOnaQyGo
<neuro> Linux_guylol: how so?
<Linux_guylol> See what Russell Howard said about it
<neuro> diddledan: and here's the revised RotJ ending: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XkDO2UxX4Lo&t=3m20s
<neuro> old vs new
<mungbean> warning: rpc.idmapd appears not to be running. All uids will be mapped to the nobody uid.
<mungbean> ^^ that errpr
<Linux_guylol> I dunon I just make errors
<Linux_guylol> ")
<neuro> mungbean: service idmapd restart ?
<Linux_guylol> What is uid
<neuro> if you have to ask ...
<neuro> ;)
<neuro> it's the user id for your login
<Linux_guylol> Ok
<Linux_guylol> I wI'll back on pc to help in 1 mib
<arc__> i am back
<arc__> Linux_guylol:How are you
<Linux_guylol> Hi arc you are the best
<neuro> eternal september ...
<mungbean> http://bugs.centos.org/view.php?id=5579
<mungbean> stupid bug
<arc__> lol
<mungbean> not sure if fixed in later or not
<arc__> how to do get ad's on your youtube video
<neuro> go to your video manager and monetise it
<neuro> you need to be registered to do that
<arc__> ok
<mungbean> and viewers
<mungbean> :P
<neuro> well yeah :)
<mungbean> i need to make a new video
<mungbean> but only have a old digicam with firewire and digital tape, or my phone
<arc__> what is your guys channels
<neuro> guess
<arc__> neuro is the best
<arc__> but arc is better
<mungbean> twiglets and curry
<neuro> ec2 security groups!!!
<neuro> aaaaahhh gargle gargle blaaaaaah
<arc__> damm you liars i so gullible
<arc__> damm i don't have a credit card
<arc__> so what is it really
<neuro> wat?
<arc__> your youtube channels
<neuro> <-
 * neuro descends further into hell
<neuro> $ uname -a
<neuro> CYGWIN_NT-5.2 ip-0A3097D9 1.7.22(0.268/5/3) 2013-07-22 17:06 i686 Cygwin
<arc__> which is it then https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=neuro&filters=channel&lclk=channel
<arc__> we should all do a skype or a team view
<arc__> on ubuntu
<Linux_guylol> Yes we should
<arc__> have you seen what #ubuntu are talking out
<neuro> seriously, look at any of those channels in the search
<neuro> which one do you think is mine?
<arc__> the third one
<neuro> have a cookie
<arc__> yay
<arc__> i will sub you
<arc__> if you sub me
<arc__> X98_Hacker
 * marxjohnson sighs
<arc__> *sighs
<arc__> damm
<marxjohnson> What value is there in someone subscribing to your channel for any reason other than them being genuinely interested in it?
<AlanBell> it has e-peen value
<arc__> because i sub them it is the way of youtube
<marxjohnson> AlanBell: right you are
<neuro> i subscribe to stuff on youtube because i'm interested in what is being uploaded
<neuro> if i'm not interested, i don't subscribe
<arc__> damm
<neuro> i have 65 subscriptions right now
<arc__> i will work up through the ranks then i will make my day view
<neuro> almost all of them set to only show uploads (rather than show uploads, likes, faves, etc)
<arc__> how do i finf my video profile
<arc__> (find)
<marxjohnson> Have I ended up in #youtube by mistake?
<neuro> https://support.google.com/youtube/?hl=en-GB
<neuro> seems so
<arc__> yes you have
<arc__> no i mean in ubuntu
<arc__> the program kendlive is asknig
<neuro> jeez
<neuro> see that little downward arrow beside your avatar at the top right of youtube?
<neuro> click it
<arc__> no in ubuntu not youtube
 * neuro gives up
<marxjohnson> My mistake, I'm in #kdenlive
 * neuro closes youtube tab before clickyclicky syndrome kicks in
<neuro> marxjohnson: polymorphic irc
<arc__> http://snag.gy/cOFBh.jpg
<neuro> hello Nimesh
<arc__> damm !!!!!
<arc__> i'm off the grid so you can't find me on the web
<marxjohnson> Seriously, if you need KDEnlive support, they have their own channels. You might get lucky here, but it's really for Ubuntu discussion.
<arc__> any way back to the problem at hand
<neuro> yeah, ubuntu discussion
<neuro> and twiglets
<arc__> it is on ubuntu thought isn't it
<arc__> so it is relevent
<neuro> http://nimesh-game-stuff.webs.com/apps/profile/42994194/
<marxjohnson> arguable, but you're more likely to get someone who can help you if you ask in the right place
<arc__> i have done it
<AlanBell> looks like there is a reddit AMA thing a bit later around the Ubuntu Edge topic
<neuro> ooh
<ormiret> arc__: which profile you want to use depends on the video you want to edit.
<marxjohnson> ooh!
<neuro> who's doing the answering?
<AlanBell> sabdfl
<neuro> noice
<AlanBell> Mark Shuttleworth
<arc__> neuro: my real name is abdi hghtht
<AlanBell> no link for the reddit thing yet, but it is announced here http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/ubuntu-edge?c=activity
<AlanBell> reddit puzzles me
<neuro> http://www.reddit.com/r/Ubuntu/comments/1j0zn9/mark_shuttleworth_reddit_ama_today_at_1230_ny/
<neuro> yeah, i should use it more
<neuro> especially since i pay for the bloody thing
<AlanBell> it is a very web 1.0 kind of discussion board
<arc__> http://redd.it/1j0zn9
<neuro> arc__: welcome to 2 minutes ago
<arc__> why all of you so harsh to me :(
<AlanBell> yup, but that isn't it. That is a comment on reddit about the future thread that there will be in another bit of reddit later
<neuro> i'm not!
<neuro> this is just gentle banter
<arc__> in indochine i got beatern up but this is just !
<AlanBell> no eggs today :( http://hencam.libertus.co.uk/video
<arc__> indochine is a real place it was a french conaliy between india and china
<neuro> ok, now i'm properly confused
<arc__> https://sites.google.com/site/x98hacker/
<arc__> click the link at the botterm
<arc__> accept the access
<neuro> um, no
<arc__> http://snag.gy/FD2bD.jpg
<arc__> it willv send you a email it was the basic google script
<arc__> it does no harm it is my website
<neuro> suuuuuuuure
<marxjohnson> hahaha
<arc__> IT have checked at school
<marxjohnson> that's OK then
<neuro> do you want my gmail password too?
<neuro> how about one of my ssh keys?
<arc__> look i will post another screen shot
<neuro> i could say something else, but it's a quote from a movie and it's rude, so i won't
<diddledan> screenshots don't prove anything
<Linux_guylol> My pc has crashed
 * neuro whistles quietly
<diddledan> ok, so you're nonchalant. quit rubbing our noses in it already
<AlanBell> arc__: what is the point of this exercise in trying to get us to execute this script?
<Linux_guylol> Neuro hacker
 * neuro throws his jacket over his shoulder and flicks his hair back
<neuro> Linux_guylol: wat?
<Linux_guylol> I want to see if it works
<arc__> do it
<neuro> you just accused me of being a "hacker"
<neuro> excuse me if i ignore everything else you say in here
<Linux_guylol> Plz
<Linux_guylol> Sorry just a joke didn't mean to offend
<neuro> 60 minutes to go
<neuro> i wonder if sabdfl will answer questions about the tiers
<Linux_guylol> I'm so sirr
<mungbean> hacker = programmer
<neuro> hence, the quotes :)
<neuro> i knew what the insinuation was
<Linux_guylol> I dont want to be the bad guy
<mungbean> is everyone a bit drunk already
<neuro> i had a mcd's smoothie earlier, i might be in the middle of a sugar crash
<arc__> hey sorry for that
<arc__> hacker are really cool like white hat hackers
<mungbean> #omgubuntu is that way :P
<SuperGeorge> actually, it's #omg!ubuntu!
<SuperGeorge> I've given away the secret
<mungbean> i used to go there :P
<SuperGeorge> oops
<mungbean> then it went below 40 users and i left
<SuperGeorge> no one talks in there anyway
<mungbean> they used to 3 yrs ago
<mgdm> still a terrible name </opinion> :P
<SuperGeorge> yeah, but some people were being idiots
<SuperGeorge> d0od agrees, but it's too late to do much about it
<mungbean> let that be a lesson
<neuro> :)
<SuperGeorge> could go through a massive rebranding
<mungbean> not worth it
<mgdm> By Jove, Ubuntu!
<mgdm> or something
<arc__> have i been a bit too stupid
<mungbean> egads, ubuntu
<neuro> erk, thunder outside
<mungbean> huzzah ubuntu
<diddledan> ooh, eck, ubuntu!
<neuro> mgdm: you hearing same?
<neuro> ee by gum ubuntu!
<Linux_guylol> Lol
<mgdm> neuro: aye, seeing it, and quite close too
<diddledan> get your UPSen ready
<neuro> may have to start singing the thunder buddy song
<arc__> Ted
<mgdm> neuro: seen http://www.blitzortung.org/ ?
<neuro> wow cool
<mgdm> neuro: click the EUMETSAT overlay button, it's pretty cool
<neuro> ohhhhhhh
<neuro> wx pron!
<mgdm> indeed ;)
<mgdm> it's all community-based, there's a kit you can get and built, and feed data in
<mgdm> Elwell has one
<neuro> why does that not surprise me
<mgdm> :)
<arc__> porn ?
<arc__> oh pron
<mungbean> did that redtape guy change his name?
<neuro> i bet he has an ADS-B receiver as well
<neuro> good q, dunno :)
<mgdm> and AIS, and weather fax, and... :)
<SuperGeorge> I changed mine
<SuperGeorge> for obvious reasons
<neuro> no-one has used or said that nick since the 13th
<mungbean> i wanted the name Jimothy
<jimothy> hello
<neuro> hello!
<neuro> it's like you're part James, part Timothy!
<neuro> but all ubuntu user :)
<jimothy> how do i setup an alias to my real nick?
<mgdm> jimothy: /msg nickserv help group
<neuro> that's the bunny
<neuro> technically i'm reg'd with nickserv as neuro_ but added neuro once it got freed up
<diddledan> who do I have to flirt with/at to get an ubuntu cloak?
<arc__> can you install thing in ubuntu on debien
<mgdm> diddledan: become a member
<mungbean> thanks mgdm
<mungbean> why jimothy wasn't already taken is a surprise
<mungbean> :D
<Linux_guylol> You guys are cool and awsome
<mungbean> i know
<diddledan> except shauno who happens to be God
<AlanBell> !member | diddledan
<lubotu3> diddledan: Ubuntu Membership means recognition of a significant and sustained contribution to Ubuntu and the Ubuntu community.  For more info see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership
<AlanBell> you can get an unaffiliated cloak if you ask in #freenode
<diddledan> aah, I guess I'm a long way off "consistent and sustained"
<diddledan> as for "contribution".. erm.. yeah, look over there, a pig flying! *ducks*
<Laney> muhahaha
<Linux_guylol> Ducks are the best
<AlanBell> chickens are the best
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: for food or for companionship?
<Linux_guylol> No yellow ducks
<Linux_guylol> Chinese duck yum
<brobostigon> and noc chicken abuse.
<brobostigon> no*
<AlanBell> http://hencam.libertus.co.uk/video Linux_guylol
<Azelphur> Is there any way to give a user permission to set a processes niceness / ionice?
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: there is
<Azelphur> cool, hows that work? :)
<diddledan> Azelphur: nice -n 19 command
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: it can be done using capabilities
<diddledan> that  works as my normal user
<Azelphur> diddledan: 19 is lower priority, I want  higher priority, higher priority by default can't be achieved without sudo, hense the question. :)
<SuperGeorge> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fbq1fRbkOAE&feature=youtu.be
<diddledan> aah
<Linux_guylol> Alan_bell:I hace no account
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: man 7 capabilities
<Azelphur> righto, ty
<MartijnVdS> CAP_SYS_NICE
<MartijnVdS> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/7635515/how-to-set-cap-sys-nice-capability-to-a-linux-user
<diddledan> it's convoluted then
<Azelphur> indeed :P
<diddledan> become root first then drop everything you're not going to use
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: you can set capabilities on a binary
<Azelphur> and you can't reload limits.conf without a reboot :<
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: yes, just log out
<Azelphur> oh, you can
<Azelphur> fun
<diddledan> I usually just spawn a new login shell in my terminal if I'm in the middle of something
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: http://pastebin.com/E2Tvifbz no dice?
<diddledan> sudo -u sameusername -i
<Azelphur> diddledan: that's a fresh ssh session
<diddledan> that works for group membership, I'm not so sure about limits
<diddledan> not ssh
<MartijnVdS> it works for users as well
<MartijnVdS> but
<Azelphur> also my srcds account has no sudo access, for obvious reasons ;)
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: does /etc/pam.d/* contain pam_limits?
<diddledan> use su then
<MartijnVdS> sshd does that
<diddledan> and type your password
<MartijnVdS> it's disabled for su by default
<AlanBell> http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/1j166z/hi_im_mark_shuttleworth_founder_of_ubuntu/
<Azelphur> azelphur@azelphur:/etc/pam.d$ find . | grep -i pam_limits
<Azelphur> yields nothing
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: weird..
<Azelphur> this is debian btw
<MartijnVdS> http://wiki.debian.org/Limits
<neuro> SuperGeorge: gotta love Brandon Routh :)
 * neuro giggles
<SuperGeorge> do you though? :P
<neuro> sabdfl's photo proof for the ama was taken by an iphone ...
<diddledan> I can't figure out how to drive reddit
<diddledan> having never been there before it looks weird
<neuro> it's just a big ass threaded forum
<AlanBell> web 1.0 style
<Linux_guylol> Lol
<MartijnVdS> I never remember who other people on there are
<MartijnVdS> actually
<MartijnVdS> I don't notice who's writing the posts
<AlanBell> you have to refresh all the time and it is utterly confusing
<diddledan> how do I find the "answers" to this AMA?
<AlanBell> there are none yet
<AlanBell> you have to keep refreshing and searching as far as I can tell
<neuro> hmm, just under 600k raised so far today
<diddledan> it's just fanbois yelling "yeah, that's a good question" or answering their own answers instead of letting mark do the answering
<neuro> which is below the 43k an hour avg they need to get to 32m
<neuro> diddledan: it hasn't started yet
<neuro> sabdfl will start answering posts after 17:30
<neuro> or his assistant will ;)
<diddledan> meelions and meelions of dollars
<MartijnVdS> bazillions?
<neuro> gajillions
<MartijnVdS> brazilians?
<diddledan> pervert!
<AlanBell> neuro: he normally types his own stuff
<neuro> i was kidding ;)
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: normally, yes :P
<christel> using his toes even!
<MartijnVdS> christel: he's Supersabdfl now?
 * christel nods
 * MartijnVdS hugs his 21:9 screen again
<Azelphur> 21:9? what resolution is that?
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: 2560x1080
<Azelphur> ah, cool :)
<MartijnVdS> 70cm wide
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: have you seen the korean monitors? I got those
<Azelphur> 2560x1440
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: I have a  Dell
<Azelphur> yea, the Dell will probably have better image quality
<Azelphur> although these aren't bad, I think they are reject apple panels
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: it came with a calibration report
<Azelphur> nice :)
<MartijnVdS> guaranteeing sRGB is within several % of "real" sRGB
<marxjohnson> hah, from the AmA: "We're hoping to blaze a trail with silicon anode batteries. Hopefully, that is the only blaze involved"
<HoT|2fC^> hey :) I have installed Ubuntu Server 13.04.4 LTS 32bit on my server, when I start it up on boot I get on my 17inch LCD screen "Out of Range"
<HoT|2fC^> and "No Input Signal"
<HoT|2fC^> Is this GRUB problem? or BIOS? its on a HP DL380 G3 "Old Hardware" server.
<MartijnVdS> HoT|2fC^: the screen shows that?
<MartijnVdS> HoT|2fC^: have you tried waiting a bit, see if it clears up?
<HoT|2fC^> MartijnVdS: Yeah
<HoT|2fC^> Yeah it says after Out of Range... No Input Signal.
<MartijnVdS> HoT|2fC^: what kind of graphics card is in there? do you know?
<HoT|2fC^> I get nothing I have to power down the Server.
<HoT|2fC^> ATI intergrated.
<HoT|2fC^> Is it telling it the wrong res or something?
<MartijnVdS> HoT|2fC^: yeah, I think it's detecting a resolution your screen can't handle
<MartijnVdS> and then using that unusable setting
<HoT|2fC^> Oh crapp
<MartijnVdS> HoT|2fC^: try booting with "vga=normal nomodeset" kernel command line options
<HoT|2fC^> ok ok, so id need to edit it ?
<MartijnVdS> you can add those in grub
<HoT|2fC^> ah ok I see
<MartijnVdS> HoT|2fC^: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FrameBuffer#How_to_disable_the_framebuffer describes all
 * HoT|2fC^ writes down on paper "vga=normal nomodeset" keynel command line options on boot disc.
<HoT|2fC^> MartijnVdS: Thanks man.
<MartijnVdS> HoT|2fC^: doesn't have to be on boot disk, works on the installed system/grub as well
<HoT|2fC^> Yes but I don't see the GRUB :/
<HoT|2fC^> This is my point lol.
<naderp> erluz
<HoT|2fC^> I get the Out of Range / No Input Signal right away
<HoT|2fC^> :/
<MartijnVdS> HoT|2fC^: do you have another screen you can try?
<HoT|2fC^> Yeah but its busted same 17inch LCD @ 75Hz
<HoT|2fC^> naderp get ping!
<HoT|2fC^> :)
<MartijnVdS> HoT|2fC^: did you install sshd during installation?
<HoT|2fC^> wth
<HoT|2fC^> ermm no :( it asked me a bunch of stuff
<HoT|2fC^> I hit DNS dunno why
<HoT|2fC^> just confused me that part of the installation.. :\
<MartijnVdS> HoT|2fC^: only select the things you actually need.. but DO install an ssh server
<HoT|2fC^> :o
<MartijnVdS> HoT|2fC^: because then, you can ssh in an fix stuff :)
<HoT|2fC^> I must reinstall it then
<MartijnVdS> sorry
<HoT|2fC^> yes very true
<HoT|2fC^> I was going to install SSH
<HoT|2fC^> but hit DNS \o/
<HoT|2fC^> so when I get that message again an my screen goes out of range how do I ssh then haah..
<MartijnVdS> HoT|2fC^: after reinstall, yes
<MartijnVdS> you ssh in from another machine
<HoT|2fC^> noway! lol haha well that will fail
<HoT|2fC^> Its connected to the internet but how will I ssh from here on my pc?
<HoT|2fC^> leave it on the out of range session ? an go to my PC
<HoT|2fC^> I dont get it :)
<MartijnVdS> HoT|2fC^: figure out the machine's IP address
<MartijnVdS> HoT|2fC^: (usually from the router/dhcp server)
<MartijnVdS> HoT|2fC^: then just "ssh host", or on Windows, use putty and select "ssh" and type the IP address
<HoT|2fC^> so checky my router no for ip history or IPs that on my network.
<HoT|2fC^> ah ok ok
<^2fC> hey
<^2fC> exit
<DJones> !rootirc | HoT|2fC^ I know you've disconnected your other connection, but
<lubotu3> HoT|2fC^ I know you've disconnected your other connection, but: It's not technically our business, but we'd like to tell you that IRC'ing as root is a Very Bad Idea (tm). After all, doing anything as root when root is not needed is bad, and especially bad with software that connects to the Internet.
<Linux_guylol> Hello guys
<MartijnVdS> hi Linux_guylol
<Linux_guylol> Hi MartijnVds
 * AlanBell cracks open a Dark Roast
<MartijnVdS> \o/
<AlanBell> https://twitter.com/alanbell_libsol/status/360470187566321664
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: it's quite dark really ;)
<AlanBell> it is
<AlanBell> very nice indeed
<MartijnVdS> oh wow, the Edge passed 6M
<AlanBell> looks like Mark did fine on the reddit thing
<arc__> hi guys agin
<arc__> hi guys again
<AlanBell> I read a fair few of the replies then got bored of clicking for more comments and trying to find out which ones were new
<arc__> spelling
<arc__> AlanBell:Hi
<diddledan> the FSF are raining on the edge parade: https://www.fsf.org/blogs/community/will-ubuntu-edge-commit-to-using-only-free-software
<directhex> the fsf's job is to rain on parades
<AlanBell> they are serial parade rainers
<directhex> it's all they do
<directhex> mostly free software parades
<directhex> fsf approval is typically a kiss of death
<arc__> can you get team viewer for ubuntu
 * AlanBell wonders what team viewer is
<directhex> i assume it's for viewing teams
<arc__> i found it for ubuntu
<arc__> team viewer is for collaborations or for mass group chat
<MartijnVdS> like google hangouts?
<arc__> but with screen capture
<MartijnVdS> google hangouts do that now
<arc__> also how can i install .deb with out opening the ubuntu sc
<MartijnVdS> (part of a) screen sharing
<arc__> yeah
<MartijnVdS> arc__: dpkg -i, possibly followed by "apt-get -f install" if the .deb has dependencies you don't have installed yet
<arc__> ok
<MartijnVdS> but be warned: if you download a deb manually, there's no signature check
<MartijnVdS> so you don't know if the package was modified before you install it
<MartijnVdS> so it could contain malware!
<AlanBell> or kittens
<arc__> i got it stright from the website
<MartijnVdS> arc__: that's no guarantee
<MartijnVdS> arc__: package archives are signed for a reason
<AlanBell> from the interwebs!!
<arc__> yes it is :)
<MartijnVdS> arc__: no it's not.. is it https or http? do you know the certificating party? do you know the webserver isn't compromised?
<arc__> oh snap i have a virus
<MartijnVdS> arc__: with package signing, if the web site is compromised, they _can't_ put a bad package on there, because they can't generate the matching signature
<AlanBell> heh
<MartijnVdS> well they can put the package on there, but apt detects badness
<arc__> we should all do one
<diddledan> no, you "do one" :-p
<diddledan> that's not a nice thing to tell somebody
<MartijnVdS> just trying to warn you about the dangers of the internet
<MartijnVdS> it's not yet filtered you know
<diddledan> soon  will be here in britain
<arc__> oh my gosh i am controling  my laptop with my phone
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: poor you
<diddledan> it'll be fine, I'll just click the "I'm a pervert" button
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: I need to go to a Vodafone store for that, as I don't have a UK CC to add to my UK Vodafone account
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: and they only let you do it online if you have a CC on your account
<diddledan> hmm
<arc__> guy plz get team viewer so we can screen share plz
<MartijnVdS> arc__: uh.. no. You wanted team viewer to share your screen with (probably) someone you know..
<arc__> you guy are the ubuntu community you are all right
<arc__> join 147 404 641
<diddledan> WHEEEEE
<MartijnVdS> arc__: unlikely
<MartijnVdS> \o/ Android 4.3 @ phone
<arc__> come on it will be harmless fun
<diddledan> it's all harmless fun until the next day when the police turn up to tell you she's only 14
<MartijnVdS> arc__: I don't think the regulars in here are likely to install a random deb from a random internet site
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: But she swore she was 12!
<diddledan> lol
<arc__> then get it from the ubuntu softwere centre
<MartijnVdS> no
<arc__> oh man
<arc__> it has gone quite here
<HoT|2fC^> MartijnVdS I edited my Grub an removed the # and added 1024x768 as res an I typed sudo update-grub and rebooted
<MartijnVdS> HoT|2fC^: does that work?
<HoT|2fC^> still no luck :\ unless grub did not restart properly
<HoT|2fC^> nope.
<MartijnVdS> HoT|2fC^: because that page specifically says to add the "nomodeset" line
<MartijnVdS> HoT|2fC^: so you *should* probably have followed that
<HoT|2fC^> nope never added that one :(
<HoT|2fC^> ohh my every time I boot I cant see anything to do with grub it just says Out of range :(
<HoT|2fC^> I was in that TTY :\
<HoT|2fC^> black screen with my name etc..
<MartijnVdS> HoT|2fC^: the page I linked describes how to disable the framebuffer
<HoT|2fC^> I install irssi as root an said hey and left root :o
<MartijnVdS> should ALSO describe how to make grub work
<HoT|2fC^> so is it just my res?
<HoT|2fC^> what link :>
<HoT|2fC^> above?
<MartijnVdS> 19:17 < MartijnVdS> HoT|2fC^:
<MartijnVdS> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FrameBuffer#How_to_disable_the_framebuffer describes all
<MartijnVdS> HoT|2fC^: this might also help: http://askubuntu.com/questions/161297/why-does-my-screen-blank-out-for-the-duration-of-the-grub-boot-menu
<HoT|2fC^> Thats the one :)
<HoT|2fC^> I was trying that Ctrl>Alt>F1 and Ctrl>Alt>F2
<HoT|2fC^> So Ctrl>Alt>T is to be hit when it says No input singal?
<MartijnVdS> no
<MartijnVdS> you ssh to the machine once the drive light stops blinking like mad
<HoT|2fC^> I cant do that ssh stuff :D
<diddledan> note: wait until the drive light starts blinking like mad before you wait for the blinking to stop
<MartijnVdS> HoT|2fC^: you can, if you installed sshd
<HoT|2fC^> yeah but to hard for me :(
<MartijnVdS> HoT|2fC^: nah, just try it :)
<HoT|2fC^> yeah but its to much messing around :(
<HoT|2fC^> if I was to just put desktop 13.04 on would it work ?
<HoT|2fC^> instead of this server one
<MartijnVdS> HoT|2fC^: then get a monitor that returns its supported resolutions properly
<HoT|2fC^> it works on my PC ?
<MartijnVdS> HoT|2fC^: probably not, because it's your screen that's saying "I can do X x Y pixels @ Z refresh rate!" while it can't
<HoT|2fC^> :o
<HoT|2fC^> so once I have sshd installed how do I get into it ?
<HoT|2fC^> from the server
<MartijnVdS> HoT|2fC^: you do "ssh your_username@ip.of.your.machine"
<MartijnVdS> HoT|2fC^: or similar using putty (if you're running windows)
<HoT|2fC^> ah ok
<neuro> here's a point for you
<neuro> if you install desktop
 * HoT|2fC^ pulls his hair out..
<HoT|2fC^> neuro yeah go on.. :)
<neuro> X will use up memory that you could have kept for your game server
<neuro> this is why you install the server version on servrs
<HoT|2fC^> true :)
<neuro> you could disable X but that's just as annoying as what you're having to do right now
<neuro> get stuff sorted now and it'll pay dividends down the line
<neuro> you're doing what sysadmins do aaaaaaaaall the time
<HoT|2fC^> true :)
<diddledan> not least in educating you on some triage techniques
<neuro> :)
<HoT|2fC^> :}
<HoT|2fC^> so when I install ubuntu server it asks me about the core on the system an I should select what I want to install
<diddledan> btw, we've hit 6meelions
<HoT|2fC^> so I would do SSH yes?
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: *\o/*
<MartijnVdS> HoT|2fC^: you install Ubuntu Server, and in one of the last screens, you select "SSH Server" or "OpenSSH Server" (I forget which one is on there, there is only one)
<MartijnVdS> HoT|2fC^: it has other options, like "LAMP server" etc, but you can keep those disabled
<HoT|2fC^> Yeah asks that to
<MartijnVdS> that's the same screen :)
<HoT|2fC^> So once I have installed that, does it ask to configure it ?
<MartijnVdS> ssh doesn't require configuration by default
<MartijnVdS> all you need to do is figure out the IP of the machine, then you can "ssh" to it, using the username&password you created during installation
<HoT|2fC^> ok thanks I will give it ago :o
<HoT|2fC^> Why is ubuntu forum down?
<MartijnVdS> HoT|2fC^: that's explained on the page you see when you go there
<HoT|2fC^> :o
<HoT|2fC^> I just go off it all the time :)
<AlanBell> anyone know if there is an awesome touchpad competing with the apple magic touchpad that works with Ubuntu?
<mgdm> the magic touchpad works with ubuntu, I've never seen any others though
<mgdm> it works, but the sensitivity for all the gestures is not set up right
<AlanBell> http://www.logitech.com/en-gb/product/mac-trackpad that looks interesting
<mgdm> why not the Apple one? Or just because it's Apple?
<AlanBell> I am considering the apple one
<AlanBell> but I heard it wasn't quite right
<mgdm> It's not quite right in that the configuration for the gesture stuff isn't quite there, but I suspect that will be true of most touchpads
<AlanBell> I am surprised there are not more to select from
<AlanBell> given the diversity of mouse options
<mgdm> give it a couple of years, i'm sure there will be
 * neuro hugs his magic trackpad
<diddledan> time for bed
<neuro> at 10pm?
<neuro> blimeh
<neuro> you have more willpower than me :)
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> actually, it's that I don't have the willpower in the morning
<neuro> i know that feeling
<neuro> i have six separate alarms on my phone that go off to wake me up
<diddledan> youch
<neuro> four from an alarm clock app and two from the iphone's built in alarm
<diddledan> I need an alarm that won't turn off until I've left the home :-p
<neuro> i had this waking me up at one point
<neuro> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7tdyj8LgoY
<neuro> after 15 seconds it goes from weird ambient noise to annoying
<neuro> after 35 seconds it goes into full on WAAAAAH mode
<linux-guy> Hi again it's nimesh
<linux-guy> Aka arc__
<diddledan> isn't there supposed to be a rule over changing your nickname randomly?
<linux-guy> My phone says that my normal nickname is taken
<linux-guy> So
<linux-guy> I dunno
<linux-guy> Late night ubuntu time
<neuro> i forgot how epic this track was
<neuro> anyone walking past my door will get freaked out
<diddledan> I've still got it playing too
<linux-guy> Why
<neuro> :)
<neuro> Richard James FTW
<mgdm> Oh, I might have known it was him
<neuro> aye
<linux-guy> Oh ok
<neuro> it's like listening to an aphex twin track while having your face smashed in by a sledgehammer
<linux-guy> Lol
<mgdm> I can see the resemblance
<neuro> it's brilliant
<neuro> 6 minutes of earmash
<neuro> good driving music too ;)
<neuro> as long as you're not driving
<diddledan> damn, it finished
<neuro> otherwise speeeeeding tiiiiiiickeeeeet
<diddledan> I need it to carry on!
<linux-guy> Cool
<neuro> someone needs to do one of those 10 hour youtube remixes
<diddledan> it's like heroin for your ears
<neuro> but in a good way :)
<diddledan> yeah
<neuro> actually let me find the youtube video where i first found the track
<diddledan> makes the ol' heartbeat a bit faster
<linux-guy> You do it then
<linux-guy> Make the vid
<neuro> got it
<neuro> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=naIWWNxF1DQ
<neuro> this guy did an epic epic dogfight video
<neuro> blended live action with MS Flight Sim footage
<neuro> music suits it to a tee
 * mgdm puts on something a little less brutal
<linux-guy> Rank youtube fc
<neuro> the pause and then the drop after the jets merge is immense
<linux-guy> Damm you auto correction
<neuro> mgdm: you should watch that second vid
<mgdm> neuro: mungbean: was in Hobbycraft earlier. Damn near bought a pile of Airfix. :D
<neuro> :)
<mgdm> (I'll be back at the weekend maybe after PAYDAY)
<neuro> sadly i gave up with models years ago
<neuro> i really should get Flaming Cliffs 3 though
<mgdm> heh, love the 'bullet time' thing
<neuro> :)
 * mgdm looks at MadHacker's blu ray copy of the Matrix, sitting to his left
<neuro> i watched that last week, randomly
<linux-guy> Matrix is awesome
<neuro> was tempted to do reloaded as well but then came to my senses
<mgdm> hehe
<linux-guy> Why not watch reloaded
<neuro> got a few movies stacked up to watch at some point
<neuro> watched fast and furious 6 the other night
<neuro> ho boy
<neuro> had to disengage brain *a lot* for that one
<linux-guy> Pacific rim is good to see
<mgdm> last film I saw in the cinema was.... Despicable Me 2 \o/
<neuro> BANANA!
<neuro> last one i saw was the hobbit
<mgdm> Though I did get a blu ray set of the original crew Star Trek films the other day
<neuro> gah
<mgdm> So now I have two BD copies of TWoK, but as far as I'm concerned you can't have too many of those
<neuro> bloody things
<neuro> :)
<neuro> i just wish there had been some foresight with the directors edition of TMp
<neuro> there will never be an HD version without redoing it all over again
<linux-guy> I hate star trek
<neuro> Foundation Imaging did all the CG in standard def :(
<neuro> so the HD remasters for blu ray were of the theatrical release
<linux-guy> Star wars for the win
<neuro> not sure if TWoK BD is theatrical or special edition
<neuro> mgdm: i bet if you're anything like me you have a ton of copies of blade runner ;)
<mgdm> I have one, actually
<neuro> bah
<neuro> i've lost count
<linux-guy> New X-Men film coming out wolverine
<mgdm> the 'ultimate final ever cut' or some such
<neuro> vhs theatrical, dvd directors cut, dvd final cut box set, hd-dvd final cut, bd final cut ...
<mgdm> the DVD final cut
<mgdm> which cost me Â£3 in Tesco
<mgdm> \o/
<neuro> wow
<neuro> i went hunting for the tin box set when it came out
<neuro> ended up in a blockbuster in bailleston just as they were closing
<neuro> saw it in a cinema in san francisco the next week tho \o/
<mgdm> nice
<mgdm> I saw TWoK in the GFT, though I think it was a DVD :-)
<neuro> embarcadero center if i remember correctly
<neuro> was amzing to finally see it in a movie theatre
<neuro> wat? :)
<mgdm> the GFT had it on last year some time
<mgdm> but I'm not sure what the source was
<neuro> i almost did the st marathon in the gft around when generations came out
<neuro> i did do the alien trilogy there tho :)
<mgdm> nice
<diddledan> the gft?
<neuro> glasgow film theatre
<diddledan> aah
<mgdm> I would have done that for ST but I'd not ever been to Glasgow by that point
<neuro> our local indie movie house
<mgdm> and I was 11 when Generations came out
<neuro> I FEEL OLD
<neuro> i was 19 :P
<mgdm> \oo//
<neuro> no wait
<mgdm> ^ zaphod emoticon
<neuro> when did generations come out again?
<mgdm> 1994
<neuro> 93?
<neuro> 94
<neuro> oh yeah, they started filming it a fortnight after they wrapped the tng series finale :)
<diddledan> I was 11 too, then
<neuro> so i was 20
<neuro> saw it in the grosvenor
<neuro> mgdm: you been there since it's been all done up?
<neuro> it's *lovely*
<neuro> you can buy a beer in the bar and take it in with you \o/
<neuro> massive leather seats
<neuro> sofas up the back
<mgdm> neuro: is that very recent?
<neuro> i think they opened back up a few years ago?
<neuro> first time i'd been in was for the hobbit
<neuro> they were doing a meal + movie deal
<mgdm> ah, then yes, I have only been in Glasgow since 2010 so it'd be well after that :)
<neuro> go upstairs to the restaurant for food, then nip down to the bar then one of the two screens
<neuro> http://www.grosvenorcafe.co.uk/
<mgdm> do not attempt to film police in Sweden, it's terrifying what happens: http://www.wimp.com/swedenpolice/
 * ^2fC is still pulling his hair out...
<^2fC> Think I will call it a day *\o/*
<roger_> hi just checking connection
<roger_> quit
<roger_> # quit
#ubuntu-uk 2013-07-26
 * popey yawns
<MartijnVdS> Bad weather coming: http://www.estofex.org/cgi-bin/polygon/showforecast.cgi?text=yes&fcstfile=2013072806_201307252133_2_extendedforecast.xml
<popey> morning â»
<popey> met one of your co-workers today MartijnVdS
<popey> very nice chap, didnt get his name though
<MartijnVdS> popey: At Oscon?
<popey> yes
<popey> there was a booking.com stand
<jussi> 500k overnight wasnt a bad effort.
<MartijnVdS> popey: there's always a booking.com stand ;)
<popey> heh
<jussi> MartijnVdS: you work with Dennis? :D
<MartijnVdS> jussi: Not anymore (if you mean kiwi)
<MartijnVdS> jussi: he left just over a year ago
<jussi> MartijnVdS: no, I meant Seveas. (or maybe Im remembering wrong)
<MartijnVdS> jussi: ah, no, never worked in the same company as him.
<MartijnVdS> jussi: IRCed with him a lot in the early days of Ubuntu though
<jussi> MartijnVdS: but you work at booking.com?
<MartijnVdS> jussi: no, I work at xs4all.nl
<jussi> ok, thats why I was confuzzled :D
<MartijnVdS> jussi: it's just that I noticed there's a booking.com stand at *every* open source event :)
<jussi> hehe
<jussi> (Dennis works at booking.com)
<MartijnVdS> but, as my department is being axed, I might send my CV their way soon
<MooDoo> morning all
<MartijnVdS> \o MooDoo
<MooDoo> :D
<MooDoo> we the only ones up MartijnVdS ?
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: popey was here earlier
<MooDoo> he's in the states though
<MartijnVdS> then I guess we're the only ones
<MartijnVdS> PARTAY
<MooDoo> lol
<shauno> not sure I'd claim to be awake :/
<MartijnVdS> shauno: it's FRIDAY, FRIDAY
<MartijnVdS> etc.
<MooDoo> well there i that seeing as i'm at work already, need moar coffee
 * MartijnVdS has fresh black tea
<shauno> 6am shifts are terrible.  I find for the first few hours, I'm barely compus mentus.  start waking up in time for breakfast, to discover I've already deleted most my email
<MooDoo> hehe
<diplo> Morning all
<TheOpenSourcerer> morning - here's something to lighten your day: http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2013/jul/23/nigeria-match-fixing-life-ban-goals
<MooDoo> TheOpenSourcerer: i might have to send them my bank details :D
<MartijnVdS> one of the teams is called "Police Machine"?
<MooDoo> ho ho
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: also, http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-23452097
<TheOpenSourcerer> Ha.
<TheOpenSourcerer> That's a joke. Surely.
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<MooDoo> morning bigcalm
<mungbean> wakes up and checks http://ubuntu-edge.info/
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<mungbean> article on the guardian about the phone and the comments are like slashdot for 5yr olds
<mungbean> "Ubuntu lost me with unity. If only Mint would do something like this, except with somewhat reasonable prices"
<mungbean> so much fail in one sentence
<MartijnVdS> Unity haters?
<mungbean> just complete numpties
<SuperMatt> unity haters almost never happen
<mungbean> talking about their pet thing
<mungbean> and distros etc
<SuperMatt> I don't mind people extolling the virtues of their distro, because everyone is different and like different things
<SuperMatt> but chucking hate at ubuntu and unity is just stupid
<mungbean> not on a major newspaper piece about phones
<mungbean> "hey guys use pupplinux"
<SuperMatt> they moan that canonical suffers from "not invented here" syndrome, but then say they'll never use canonical's stuff because "it's not invented here"
<SuperMatt> heaven forbid the haters actually exercise some consistancy with their arguments
<mungbean> guy held up a bank with an AK47 :-|
<SuperMatt> yup
<SuperMatt> and strangely the people of london actually helped detain him
<MartijnVdS> is the economy that bad?
<MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: bankers, or what?
<SuperMatt> it's apparently on the up!
<SuperMatt> oh no, not bankers
<MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: oh wait, you said "people" of london
<mungbean> drinkers
<mungbean> 1.47pm
<mungbean> i wonder if he queued like everyone else
<mungbean> i have to phone up for an appointment to open a bank account for the child
<SuperMatt> If you've even been in London on a sunny afternoon, you'll realise the pubs will be full at 1.47
<mungbean> thats not gonna happen anytime soon
<TheOpenSourcerer> Did someone say pubs ;-)
<TheOpenSourcerer> ?me is setting up a new Virtual machine on their new hetzner host hardware. All Ubuntu of course.
<TheOpenSourcerer> oops /me
 * TheOpenSourcerer said that ^-^
<MooDoo> TheOpenSourcerer: don't you use them anyway?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Yes - this our 5th server
<TheOpenSourcerer> Ordered yesterday
<MooDoo> cool
<shauno> curious how you handle VMs on hetzner; buy IPs for each VM?
<SuperMatt> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GoBhq9xZD4Qv <- sysadmin appreciation day
<neuro> don't know if anyone's noticed, but kimsufi are doing dual core atoms with 2GB RAM, 500GB disk and 5TB transfer
<neuro> for 3 quid a month
<neuro> incl vat
<MartijnVdS> but atoms
<neuro> but 3 quid
<MartijnVdS> but atoms
<neuro> but 3 quid
<MartijnVdS> yeah, but
<neuro> a physical server
<neuro> with an ipv4 address
<TheOpenSourcerer> shauno: Yes - we use KVM and buy a /29 or /28 subnet depending on the performance of the host
<neuro> and an ipv6 /64
<neuro> and 100Mbps
<neuro> for 3 quid a month
<shauno> neuro: would be kinda nice if they included a cpu though ;)
<MooDoo> my friends site - https://clients.5switch.com/cart.php not quite Â£3 and still atoms
<MooDoo> Â£15 is the cheapest
<neuro> haha
<neuro> they're kimsufi/ovh boxes
<neuro> he's reselling them
<MooDoo> ah
<neuro> sorry ;)
<MooDoo> neuro: nothing to say sorry for
<neuro> blimey, whitburn
<MooDoo> ?
<neuro> the company
<MooDoo> ah right
<neuro> your friend
<neuro> is in whitburn
<MooDoo> yeah
<neuro> you should tell him he has the wrong company number in his website footer ;)
<MooDoo> neuro: what's up with it, a seach on companies house shows the correct details or am i missing something?
<neuro> unless your mate is called Robert and owns a company in Banchory called "West End Properties (Aberdeen) Limited", it's wrong ;)
<MooDoo> http://wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk//wcframe?name=accessCompanyInfo
<neuro> huh, it's changed
<neuro> it's literally just now changed
<neuro> oh, no
<neuro> it hasn't
<neuro> i see where i saw it
<neuro> http://5switch.com/about.php
<neuro> compare the one under "The Legal Stuff" with the one in the site footer
<neuro> and i don't use companies house
<MooDoo> yes i get ya, thanks chaps
<neuro> awful awful interface
<neuro> duedil ftw
<MooDoo> not my website :p
<neuro> ?
<mungbean> not my circus, not my monkey
<MooDoo> sorry thought you were on about my mates website :d
<neuro> i meant companies house, ya daftie! :)
<mungbean> Nie mÃ³j cyrk, nie moje maÅpy
<neuro> ã§ã¯ãªãç§ã®ãµã¼ã«ã¹ã§ã¯ãªããç§ã®ç¿ã
<neuro> Non circo, non simia esse.
<MooDoo> i wish people would talk proper like what I does
<neuro> Nid yw fy syrcas, nid yw fy mwnci.
<neuro> i love the welsh word for monkey
<JamesTait> Good morning all, happy Friday and happy One Voice Day! :-D
<mungbean> its just english with heavy welsh accent
<neuro> lol
<MooDoo> JamesTait: morning and shush neuro is speaking ;)
<neuro> wat?
<MooDoo> neuro: it's one voice day i was being silly
<shauno> JamesTait: it's http://sysadminday.com and you picked One Voice day?  sheesh :p
<JamesTait> MooDoo, it looks more like he sat on his keyboard. ;)
<neuro> why do i always forget sysadmin day
<shauno> blame the firewall.  it's always the firewall
<mungbean> blame the previous guy
<MooDoo> shauno: i've just made a mental note to check BOFH excuse of the day as it can't be the firewall
<neuro> good shout
<neuro> i can't really blame the previous guy
<neuro> the previous guy at my current job snuffed it :(
<JamesTait> I thought sysadmin day was in September. :-/
<mungbean> neuro: was he planning to?
<neuro> don't think so, died of a heart attack
<neuro> JamesTait: you're thinking of international talk like a pirate day
<mungbean> i don't know if it's wrong but i'd kind of milk the fact there was no handover
<mungbean> people wouldn't argue either
<neuro> it *is* wrong, and don't get me started on that :)
<mungbean> but is it true?
<neuro> well duh
<neuro> unless we whip out a ouija board
<shauno> I had an employer do that.  it sounds disgusting, but it's quite handy to have a reference that cannot be questioned
<mungbean> well he might have done read-only fridays like me
<neuro> wait, what?
<mungbean> and done documentation , loads of it
<neuro> "read-only fridays"?
<mungbean> yeah, no changes to system after 2pm on friday
<neuro> that's a pretty common thing
<mungbean> but you're in pub at 12pm on friday, because its friday
<neuro> no planned operational changes on fridays, because no-one wants to get called out on a saturday
<mungbean> so use the r/o flag to write documentation
<neuro> something i'm trying to instill here
<mungbean> this place aint good enough for me
<TheOpenSourcerer> Don't you just love it when a customer emails you and says please can you send me a big invoice :-D
<mungbean> too many mkneys
<neuro> today i'm working on web stats code that i'll roll out next week
<neuro> TheOpenSourcerer: yeah, i've had to refer customers to finance teams before
<neuro> on the phone, too
<MooDoo> TheOpenSourcerer: yes i had one of those myself the other day "I'm not paying you enough, let me pay you more"
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: I've had those as well :)
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: yeah, that was the basic gist of it
<MooDoo> albeit this was for a photo shoot lol
<neuro> "sorry, i'd love to action your request, but could you call our finance team first on 0845 ..."
<MartijnVdS> ugh.. office-speak ;)
<neuro> "yes, I understand that you are desperate to get this done, but could you please call our finance team on 0845 ..."
<MartijnVdS> verbing weird nouns
<mungbean> americanisms
<MooDoo> I so need to start doing consulting and remove support lol
<MooDoo> s/remote
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: they do it in Dutch here as well.. *shudder*
<mungbean> native dutch?
<neuro> "no, i'm not trying to be obstructive, but ... OK, yes, I am being obstructive, because there's a note on your account here which says can you please call our finance team on 0845 ..."
<neuro> they got the message eventually
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: yeah, they put in weird management-speak Dutch words.. or English ones
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: "English-ish" more like
<neuro> my two pet hates are ones i can barely say
<neuro> "going forward"
<mungbean> ferrets and snakes?
<neuro> "take this offline"
<neuro> boils my blood
<neuro> really does
<mungbean> have you done ITIL?
<neuro> hell no
<mungbean> its complete garbage
<neuro> yup
<mungbean> the words don't even mean what they're supposed to
<neuro> it's like getting certification for stuff
<mungbean> i pulled them up on it  and they said, just learn it for the exam
<mungbean> "its the ITIL way"
<neuro> when you think about it, it's pointless
<mungbean> but its wrong
<mungbean> i took a vmware VCP course
<mungbean> i have an exam voucher
<mungbean> didn't use it because was too busy ACTUALLY DOING THE REAL WORK
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS: i'm wanting to that course, it's a week :D
<Linux-guy> Hello guys
<neuro> mungbean: haha
<MooDoo> sorry mungbean :)
<mungbean> in interview..why didnt you do the exam?
<mungbean> upper managers wouldn't understand
<mungbean> the course is an enabler, not an end in itself
 * mungbean calms down
<neuro> :)
<neuro> have a cuppa
<mungbean> forgot my breakfast juice!
<MooDoo> never mind, not be too long before you can have weekend juice
 * neuro has already had some copella cloudy apple juice
<neuro> om nom
<mungbean> 50-50 OJ+water
<mungbean> urbandictionary definition of sky: 1) go outside
<mungbean> -look up
<mungbean> -viola
<mungbean> viola??? run!!!!
<neuro> INVASION OF THE TINY VIOLINS!
<MooDoo> mungbean: is this your crazy friday hour?
<mungbean> aren't violas big like cellos?
<mungbean> MooDoo: maybe, is that in my schedule?
<MooDoo> mungbean: you tell me, 10 - 11 go crazy ?
<mungbean> 9-10 on friday  i usually check emails and eat breakfast and generally warm up to the fun of the day
<mungbean> sometimes it spills over
<mungbean> all my workmates have all left so the company irc is dead now
<mungbean> used to be a thriving hotbed of bitterness and bile against project managers
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: we have one of those, but the bitterness and bile is mostly against *all* managers
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: project managers are the least bad here ;)
<mgdm> Violas are slightly larger than violins
<mungbean> PMs have elevated status here
<mungbean> they are clueless but are used for things that techies should be doing. hence every project fails
<MartijnVdS> heh, sounds familiar
<MartijnVdS> also, techies only get involved in projects when they're too invested in them to fail
<MartijnVdS> so when we say "That's impossible" we have to hack some way around it anyway
<MartijnVdS> (or "that's hard, it'll take 6 months" "you have 2")
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS: the reply to that is, you paying overtime?
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: no, the reply is "OK", and still take 5 months ;)
<mgdm> overtime is dangerous
<mungbean> they had a party last night for all the people involved in a project
<mgdm> if you make it known that you will do it, you can end up doing loads of it
<mungbean> classic IT crowd scene.
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: and sticking to the schedule we told them about, instead of the one they forced on us
<mungbean> guess who did a large chuink and wasn't invited
<MooDoo> mungbean: they don't like you :p
<mungbean> guess who turns up instead? suits, starbucks dwellers and chancers
<mungbean> i don't exist
<MooDoo> mungbean: until something breaks
<mungbean> guess who actually did real work
<mungbean> not any more
<mungbean> i moved to different dept
<mungbean> screw them
<mungbean> :D
<mungbean> anyone ever seen an oracle/sun 7410 cluster?
<mungbean> the thing panics and reboots upon any actions perform in the vicinity of it
<mungbean> replace a failed disk, panic reboot,
<mungbean> change the email addresses in the web ui, reboot
<diplo> Sounds a fun more mungbean :/
<diplo> morning*
<neuro> it is, isn't it :(
<neuro> roll on beer o clock
<mungbean> 'twas yesterday, i am reading firmware changelogs today :)
<mungbean> ctrl-F panic WHOAH
<shauno> odd question .. any suggestions for online resources to test an applicant's written english?
<mungbean> shauno: i've seen them before
<MooDoo> shauno: http://www.bbsi.co.uk/online_english_language_test
<mungbean> maybe in the guise of typing tests
<davmor2_> neuro: you know somewhere in the world it's already beer o'clock you should celebrate this fact with say a beer
<TheOpenSourcerer> Did someone just say beer ;-)
<mgdm> if there was a yardarm nearby I'm sure the sun would be over it
<neuro> TheOpenSourcerer: http://isitbeeroclock.com/
<TheOpenSourcerer> That's rather an old saying mgdm bet most of the "youngsters" in here don't know what you mean.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Thanks neuro
<mgdm> Hehe
<mgdm> there *is* a tall ship about half a mile down the river, thinking about it
<jussi> tallships <3
<brobostigon> loadsa beer tmrw, birthday boy, :)
<brobostigon> 31 i will be, getting old.
<MooDoo> brobostigon: old at 31 eh
<brobostigon> MooDoo: in another ten years, i might worry.
<shauno> MooDoo: disappointing, I got 77% on that :(
<MooDoo> shauno: you're japanese right
<shauno> I'm english :(
<neuro> ahhhhhhhh domo
<MooDoo> shauno: i was kidding.
<MooDoo> domo arigato gozaimaz
<neuro> Anata no nenrei wa kankei arimasen. Anata no chie ga jÅ«yÅna nodesu.
<MooDoo> Doitashimashite
<neuro> Appuru wa jÅ«su!
<neuro> could be worse
<neuro> could be welsh
<MooDoo> lol
<neuro> llcchllhclhclhchchchlhllclhhclhclhlhlchlhhchchclchlhlhchclch isn't it
<mgdm> boyo
<neuro> i love the bill bailey bit about the dutch and welsh fascination with toasties
<neuro> dutch: we've got ham toasties ... and we've got cheese toasties
<neuro> maybe we go a bit crazy and make ham and cheese toasties
<neuro> welsh: ham *AND* cheese?
<mgdm> that's brilliant!
<neuro> it's flat, it just slides right in
<jussi> welsh rarebit... do they even actually come from Wales?
<neuro> Made in China
<neuro> apparently, it's possibly a joke
<neuro> dates from the 1700s
<neuro> it may have referred to how rabbit was the poor Englishman's meat
<neuro> but in Wales it was cheese, as they were so poor
<neuro> or crap at hunting rabbits
<shauno> I've always wondered about these 'traditional' dishes, and just how traditional they really are
<neuro> haggis is very traditional
<shauno> I mean, I can't imagine ireland without potatos, or italy without tomatos; but both came from the americas
<neuro> potatoes?
<neuro> what, just potatoes? :)
<neuro> i think of colcannon :)
<shauno> I guess it doesn't stick in the mind because they never had a cabbage famine
<neuro> hehe
<neuro> maybe they did and no-one noticed because of the potatoes
<shauno> they're just particular ones that strike me as very dominant across europe, but non-native
<neuro> a lot of places are like that
<neuro> we (scots) owe a lot of our cuisine from french influences
<shauno> of course, the famous barre de chocolat frits  ;)
<neuro> *yawn* :)
<neuro> le tourist twaddle :)
<mgdm> neuro: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-23464418
<neuro> lol
<bigcalm> The networking stuff came back to me to deal with. Given up on the seperate subnet. VPN now works (I think). My brain is being turned to mush with all of this new information
<Linux-guy> Hello
<Linux-guy> Why is it always quite in here
<Linux-guy> Can some Linux commands work on mac cuz mac is Unix
<mgdm> pretty much
<SuperMatt> it's not always quite in here
<SuperMatt> I guess it's lunch time so everyone is here is picking food out of their neck beards
<SuperMatt> I jest, of course
<marxjohnson> mmm crunchy
<marxjohnson> got a new keyboard, I'm so happy. I've been using a tesco value Â£1.99 special with dodgy spacebar and it's been driving me up the wall. I'm just typing a long message now for the joy of it. lalala
<SuperMatt> I never use anything but cherry keyboards
<marxjohnson> I had a cherry keyboard but it went nuts and decided that when i pressed space i was also pressing #, and when I pressed / I was also pressing ;
<marxjohnson> which makes coding somewhat tricky
<SuperMatt> did you try removing the crumbs from between the keys?
<MartijnVdS> no DAS KEYBOARD for you then?
<marxjohnson> I've got a Das Keyboard at work
<MartijnVdS> http://www.daskeyboard.com/model-s-ultimate/
<SuperMatt> I would be quite tempted by a daskeyboard
<marxjohnson> I've the got the brown switch version so as not to piss of my colleages :p
<MartijnVdS> marxjohnson: your co-workers must hate you, or have good headphones
<SuperMatt> though not at those prices
<marxjohnson> The one that broke had white switches, which aren't as nice
<marxjohnson> Someone kindly freecycled me an ancient mitsumi keyboard which has quite a siliar feel to the brown cherrys
<marxjohnson> similar*
<marxjohnson> my Das was a christmas present, I wasnt going to spend that much of my own money either
<SuperMatt> the problem with buy such an expensive keyboard is that I would want two of them, one for home and one for work
<marxjohnson> haha yeah I had that dilemma
<SuperMatt> I've already got 2xleft handed mice
<SuperMatt> http://www.razerzone.com/gaming-mice/razer-deathadder-left-hand-edition
<SuperMatt> the best thing about having left handed mice? watching everyone FLAIL when using my pc
<SuperMatt> bwa ha ha ha
<neuro> holy mother of distant thunder ...
<SuperMatt> what?
<neuro> it's thundery here
<SuperMatt> oh right
<neuro> lol
<SuperMatt> that makes sense
<SuperMatt> carry on
<neuro> see, this is why i like macs
<neuro> single finger tap/click = do stuff
<neuro> double finger tap/click = context
<SuperMatt> are you talking touchpad?
<neuro> yeah
<SuperMatt> I don't use touchpads much
<SuperMatt> only on my laptop
<SuperMatt> when I'm in bed
<neuro> you can do the same with the mighty mouse too iirc
<neuro> argh
<SuperMatt> I have desktops for everything else
<neuro> not mighty mouse, the magic mouse
 * neuro points at his full-size apple usb keyb + magic trackpad ;)
<neuro> i haven't used a mouse on this machine for ages
<shauno> I can barely right-click with the mighty mouse lol .. what a fail that was
<neuro> tho i do have one plugged in just in case
<mgdm> neuro: I have the same setup
<mgdm> I have a mouse down the back somewhere though so that when IT need to do things they can :)
<neuro> apple keyboards are epic
<mgdm> I don't get on with the wee bluetooth one
<neuro> definitely my favourite keyboards now, followed closely by sun type 5 keybs
<neuro> no?
<mgdm> Well, generally when I use one it's 'cos I'm borrowing a machine
<mgdm> and I've just switched off the full-size one
<neuro> i have one on my mac mini
<neuro> my TV mac
<mgdm> and the keys are narrower, so I type utter nonsense for a while until I get used to it
<neuro> narrower than what?
<neuro> the full size keyb?
<mgdm> yeah
<neuro> i thought everything was the same other than the bottom row
<SuperMatt> I wouldn't mind an apple keyboard, except the layout drives me potty
<mgdm> I think it's different, but not by much
<neuro> hmm
<neuro> SuperMatt: yeah, me too
<mgdm> also ctrl is in the wrong place, and I'm the only person in here who remaps caps lock to be another ctrl
<neuro> i always do a soft remap to put \ and # in the right places
<neuro> confuses people who are used to mac keybs, but i touch type, so i need consistency :)
<MartijnVdS> neuro: between enter and backspace, and shift+3?
<SuperMatt> caps lock would do well to be replaced with something else, though I'm not sure about ctrl
<shauno> I've used them so long the PC keyboard drives me nuts :/
<mgdm> For a while I ran Ubuntu on my THinkpad with a Mac keyboard attached
<mgdm> that was 'fun'
<neuro> see, i've always been a bottom-right-hand ctrl person
<MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: Chromebooks have a "Search" button where capslock should be
<SuperMatt> yarb, but not everything uses a search key these days
<neuro> MartijnVdS: begone with your odd keyboards
<SuperMatt> I wonder what else it could be
<neuro> uk english layout ftw
<shauno> I've switched away from the UK layout too.  it's silly.
<SuperMatt> you know, I think it'd be fun to replace capslock with an application switcher
<neuro> SuperMatt: you're questioning google, a company built around a search engine, why they'd put a search key on their keyboard? :)
<neuro> shauno: how so?
<SuperMatt> oh, I'm not questioning them, I just don't think it's needed on a normal keyboard
<neuro> :)
<SuperMatt> because not ever app I run on my desktop requires a search
<neuro> i don't think chromebooks qualify as "normal"
<SuperMatt> no, they dont
<MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: That's why I disabled Unity's menu search thing (HUD?), and never use the "Dash", only Alt+F2
<MartijnVdS> I know what I'm looking for dammit
<neuro> this is why ubuntu desktop frustrates me so much
<SuperMatt> ah, now there's an idea
<neuro> i shouldn't have to feel like i have to disable a core UI component to make the thing feel "useful"
<SuperMatt> replace capslock with win+a, so it only allows me to search applications
<MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: replace capslock with shutdown
<MartijnVdS> you'll learn not to touch it
<neuro> YOU'LL NEVER TAKE CAPS LOCK FROM MEEEEE!
<SuperMatt> hahaha
<SuperMatt> chromebook go around capslock by requiring you to press both shifts
<MartijnVdS> neuro: you'll still have shift
<neuro> hehe, it would turn into the BREAK key from the BBC Micro
<SuperMatt> which I think is nice
<neuro> the amount of times i whacked that key was ridiculous
<shauno> neuro: on the mac, # is shift-3 and Â£ is alt-3.  I use the 'international english' layout so they're reversed
<neuro> i even managed the unrecoverable ctrl+break a few times
<shauno> that way I can let alt be meta in a terminal, and lose the Â£ key rather than #
<neuro> shauno: on your mac, maybe
<SuperMatt> how on earth did you press ctrl break?
<neuro> but yeah, i grok that
<neuro> SuperMatt: just keyboard mashing
<SuperMatt> my fingers are just never over there
<shauno> not being in the UK anymore, the Â£ key is kinda useless, yaknow
<neuro> i have always been a fast typist, even when in high school, but sometimes i just went into mash mode
<neuro> shauno: :)
<neuro> here, have a few: Â£Â£Â£Â£Â£Â£Â£Â£
<neuro> stick em in your clipboard
<neuro> just don't lose them
<SuperMatt> shauno: sure, but there's no need to take it out on poor british users trying to press Â£ on a mac keyboard
<neuro> SuperMatt: i press shift+3 to get a Â£ sign
<MartijnVdS> I press shift+altgr+4
<MartijnVdS> Â£
<SuperMatt> D:
<SuperMatt> this is all wrong
<neuro> which sounds mental, but since it's not your currency, that's fair enough
<SuperMatt> just gimme a standard uk layout!
 * neuro *has* a standard uk layout :)
<MartijnVdS> neuro: but â¬ is AltGr+5 and $ is Shift+3
<bigcalm> Eugh
<shauno> keyboards would be so much more simple if you'd just give up and join the euro
<neuro> MartijnVdS: given the age of Â£ and $ vs â¬ ...
<neuro> euro? NEVER
<shauno> g'wan!
 * neuro likes having interesting banknotes issued by three different banks
<bigcalm> neuro: what currency will you adopt once you leave the UK? ;)
<neuro> plus whatever tat the BoE prints off
<MartijnVdS> If Scotland becomes independent, they should join the Euro
<MartijnVdS> just out of spite
<shauno> that half the UK doesn't accept :p
<neuro> bigcalm: at the moment, the plan is to run with sterling
<neuro> and operate a Sterling Zone, akin to the Eurozone
<MartijnVdS> neuro: join the euro side
<neuro> nope
<MartijnVdS> we have cookies
<neuro> no, you don't
<shauno> they have special cookies
<neuro> they have stroopwafel, which i can get from Lidl's, so rack off!
<neuro> Â£p is only 42 yrs old, we haven't had time to settle in
<MartijnVdS> those aren't proper stroopwafels
<neuro> from hundreds of years of Â£sd
<neuro> buggered if i'll let our country go â¬c
<neuro> (he said as though he had a say in it)
<MartijnVdS> neuro: but it's so easy to not have to bother changing money when traveling
<bigcalm> :)
<neuro> wut?
<neuro> who needs to change money?
<shauno> agreed.  it feels so old-fashioned having to swap sacks of coins when I go to the UK :/
<neuro> credit card + ATM
<MartijnVdS> neuro: yes, then you end up with bags of small change
<shauno> I atleast managed to pick up one of those oyster gizmos so I can get to the hotel before I have to worry about what currency's in which pocket
<MartijnVdS> where "small" is relative, because 2p coins are the size of hubcaps
<neuro> i usually leave my change behind
<MartijnVdS> or is that 1p?
<neuro> not telling
<mgdm> MartijnVdS: there's a shop here that sells the same type i got last time I was in AMS. So neeeeeeh. :P
<shauno> you don't have a policeman on your island?
<MartijnVdS> mgdm: the best are freshly made  :)
<neuro> shauno: i just grab some euros when i get through arrivals at whatever airport i'm in
<mgdm> MartijnVdS: 2p coins weigh twice what 1p do (because you can weigh a bag of mixed 1p and 2p coins to work out how much it is)
<neuro> when i was bouncing over to bcn a lot, the rate off the airport ATMs was pretty good
<shauno> neuro: right, and then you have to figure out how to get a metro ticket with a â¬50  lol
<neuro> i use these things called "taxis"
<neuro> but then again, i was on expenses, so ...
<shauno> I avoid that .. they tend to see me coming, and want the whole â¬50 :/
<neuro> i only ever had one problem like that with a bcn cab driver
<neuro> all i had was a â¬50
<shauno> far too many places seem to want to take me on the magical mystery tour
<MartijnVdS> mgdm: so the 2p coins are the hubcaps ;)
<neuro> and while i was saying ATM, ATM, which was literally just round the corner, he drove off from my destination, to a petrol station nearby so that I could buy something to make change
<neuro> muppet
<neuro> bought a 2l bottle of coke with a â¬50 note :P
<MartijnVdS> neuro: that's on the expensive side though
<neuro> hmmm?
<MartijnVdS> 2l of coke for â¬50
<neuro> watch out, everyone, we've got a comedian over here!
<shauno> hungary was a blast from the past as far as having to deal with funnymoney went :/
<shauno> luckily everywhere I need to go on a regular basis is on the euro now
<neuro> apparently the hungarians may be replacing the forint with the euro
<MartijnVdS> neuro: in 2024 or something
<MartijnVdS> Latvia is first, I think
<shauno> they've been working on it for years.  same as the czechs.  but they have to get their ducks in a row first
<neuro> aye
<neuro> see, all this hassle
<MartijnVdS> shauno: get rid of corruption, mostly
<neuro> we can just stick with the pound :)
<MartijnVdS> neuro: but you've been pre-approved! ;)
<shauno> MartijnVdS: nah, that's not a requirement.  Just look at Italy ;)
<MartijnVdS> shauno: true, and Greece
<shauno> czceh's another one where I end up doing finger math to figure out if I'm being taken for a ride
<shauno> er, czech
<neuro> much prefer our own banknotes
<neuro> they're brilliant
<MartijnVdS> shauno: at a UDS in Prague, we had a â¬20 bottle (1l) of water
<MartijnVdS> in the hotel reoom
<shauno> that sounds like most minibars
<shauno> it's just more difficult to tell when they're using imaginary numbers
<neuro> http://www.scotbanks.org.uk/banknote_denominations.php
<neuro> http://www.scotbanks.org.uk/media/scottish_banknotes_poster_2009.pdf
<^2fC> lo
<neuro> it's server boy :)
<HoT|2fC^> :}
<shauno> I Think I've still got some scottish notes around here somewhere.  they're a nuisance trying to get changed
<^2fC> up and running !
<neuro> woot
<^2fC> <-- Ubuntu 13.04.2 LTS !
<^2fC> ;)
<neuro> 12.04, no?
<^2fC> sorry 12.04.2
<^2fC> :p
<neuro> :)
<neuro> now as long as it has power and ethernet, you can stick it in a corner and forget about it
<^2fC> Indeed :)
<^2fC> I will SSH from my iPhone? :o
<^2fC> How do I make a static IP :\
<neuro> you'll need to configure it in /etc/network/interfaces
<^2fC> Will it be ok on overnight ?
<neuro> it's pretty straightforward to do, just read up on it first
<neuro> will it be ok overnight? :)
<neuro> these things are built to be on for years
<^2fC> yeah
<^2fC> left on
<neuro> just make sure it is well ventilated
<^2fC> yeah true lol :D
<neuro> the easier way actually
<neuro> to set static ip
<neuro> do it in your router
<^2fC> ah ok ok
<neuro> you can get the ethernet interface's MAC address from the 'ifconfig' command
<^2fC> yup
<davmor2> neuro: is the Scottish/English pound exchange rate still the same?
<neuro> then most routers have an option to set a statically assigned LAN IP using the MAC
<^2fC> indeed yes
<^2fC> I will go do that now :o
<neuro> davmor2: all scottish and NI banknotes are pound sterling
<^2fC> eth0 or lo ?
<shauno> davmor2: not always, oddly enough.  despite what they'll tell you otherwise
<neuro> eth0
<^2fC> ok ok
<^2fC> ty
<neuro> every scottish banknote is backed by the corresponding value in the Bank of England
<shauno> but it's not unknown to be charged a different exchange rate
<neuro> so Â£1 here = Â£1 everywhere else in the UK
<neuro> "exchange rate" what are you talking about?
<neuro> :)
<shauno> well, the rate offered when you exchange them
<neuro> i don't understand
<^2fC> neuro: I done that now Address Reservation :o
<neuro> ^2fC: means you don't have to futz too hard with the server :)
<^2fC> :o
<davmor2> neuro: It's a joke from either Bill Bailey or Michael MacIntyre
<neuro> ah, i see
<neuro> that Bill Bailey ... *shakes fist*
<neuro> :)
<neuro> the fun thing is
<shauno> it's actually something that crops up - eg, http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/business-consumer/travellers-scottish-bank-notes-better-1863134
<neuro> scottish banknotes aren't legal tender in England or Wales
<neuro> but
<neuro> no banknotes are legal tender in Scotland
<shauno> I've also seen the reverse, where scottish notes were charged a higher rate
<^2fC> neuro: can I install a dedicated game server away from home to ?
<^2fC> say a Source one from Steam.
<^2fC> CS:S or something CS:GO
<neuro> i don't know, can you/
<neuro> ?
<^2fC> :o
<^2fC> I don't know its all CommandLine now Steam servers.
<neuro> like i said, last time i installed a game server was ET
<^2fC> So I should guess so :)
<^2fC> yeah ET haha
<^2fC> Sorry I forgot..
<neuro> :)
<^2fC> Well I am off to work!
<MooDoo> i'm running a minecraft server lol
<neuro> yeah but minecraft people are "special" ;)
<^2fC> Speak soon thanks ever so much for your help neuro, AlanBell, MartijnVdS, mungbean, MooDoo, popey, all you guys!
<^2fC> Ubuntu rocks!
<^2fC> Peace.
<MooDoo> neuro: can't deny that :D
<neuro> you're welcome dude
<^2fC> :>
 * ^2fC runs off..
<davmor2> neuro: I think it ran along the line of, I was in Scotland and got some of their fivers and went to pay for something and...........then went into it must be the exchange rate maybe a Scottish Pound is different to and English one....No it's a POUND!!!
<mgdm> That was Michael McIntyre
<MooDoo> oh hello davmor2 I blatently ignored you ;)
<mgdm> which I'm surprised I know, given I don't like his stuff much
<davmor2> MooDoo: nothing new there dude ;) how am ya?
<neuro> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Z3OKE_Os1M (contains swears)
<MooDoo> davmor2: cracking lad :) ready for the weekend?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Nom, Just had a Bombay Bad Boy Pot Noodle for my lunch. Kids gave it me as a going away gift.
<MooDoo> TheOpenSourcerer: I love them, not hot enough though :) lol
<TheOpenSourcerer> Exactly. I added some extra chilli sauce
<TheOpenSourcerer> I'm off to the IoW tomorrow. Going to this: http://www.isleofwightchillifiesta.co.uk/
<davmor2> neuro: that'll be the one  :)
<MooDoo> TheOpenSourcerer: yes you're doing the pizza thing right?
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: "On second thought, let's not go to the IoW. 'tis a chilli place."
<TheOpenSourcerer> Possibly yes.
<neuro> he nails it
<neuro> it's brilliant
<neuro> especially the first bit about the glasgow airport thing
<neuro> why oh why al qaeda thought glasgow airport would be a good target i don't know
<davmor2> neuro: told you it was one or the other of those comedians they are the ones we tend to watch the most :)
<neuro> :)
<neuro> davmor2: you should watch some kevin bridges, he is genius
<davmor2> neuro: yeah got his dvd too
<mgdm> neuro: did you ever see him on Would I Lie To You?
<neuro> no :(
<neuro> "i seen a sign that said 'have you seen this man?' I phoned up and said '... naw'. I might be a few things but i'm no a grass" :)
<mgdm> neuro: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IkXxmMUIx8k
<davmor2> neuro: I think it was frankie Boyle on mock the week who said what were al qaeda thinking, they sent a burning man into glasgow airport, for a bunch of scots who were off to malaga to get burnt was it just irony?
<shauno> the truth's probably a lot more boring.  they were working in paisley.  they weren't singling out glasgow airport.  simply 'the airport'.
<zleap> any idea how to run clamav to scan a flash disk
<zleap> clamav isn't working from command line, can't fimd a man page either
<MooDoo> can't you just run sudo clamscan -r /folderlocation?
<davmor2> zleap: if you are on a desktop just install clamtk and run it from the gui :)
<mungbean> i saw somebody on secret eaters yesterday who i recognise :S
<^2fC-iPhone> Ah nice on my iPhone :o
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: secret-eaters?
<diddledan> mungbean: someone you know or just know of?
<Myrtti> AlanBell: http://www.buzzfeed.com/peggy/positively-dreamy-chicken-coops
<SuperMatt> 4
<SuperMatt> oop
<mungbean> someone i recognise from the train
<mungbean> used to take my train to work
<bigcalm> Anybody know how long VPN rules take to take effect on a Rackspace firewall?
<bigcalm> Oh, it's working \o/
<SuperMatt> so about 5 minutes then?
<bigcalm> SuperMatt: or it was instant but I didn't work out how to test it until just now
<SuperMatt> ah right
<SuperMatt> it's always good to know when something is instant
<SuperMatt> I hate waiting for stuff
<SuperMatt> this is IT dammit!
<bigcalm> :)
<bigcalm> I think I should let my parents know that it's sysadmin day
<SuperMatt> do you sysadmin for them a lot?
<mungbean> i know its useless internet points but when your link hits the top of a subreddit and the upvotes start flying up, its quite fun
<SuperMatt> which is this?
<mungbean> huh?
<SuperMatt> which post on which subreddit?
<MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: /r/vxjunkies
<SuperMatt> ...
<SuperMatt> you're not mungbean
<MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: still, you should read there :)
<mungbean> its not a default sub so it won't be on THE front page
<mungbean> doesn't matter *which* story today, but its generally fun
<mungbean> although self.post != link karma (more useless internet points)
<SuperMatt> aww man]
<SuperMatt> I had no idea
<mungbean> you can't do anything with reddit karma
<mungbean> and i have > 5 user accounts anyway
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: impress friends, maybe
<mungbean> depending on which sub i'm posting in, disclsing personal info etc
<mungbean> i even destroy my irc karma once a year
<mungbean> http://www.reddit.com/r/dataisbeautiful/
<mungbean> cool sub
<diplo> heh, just looking at  /r/wtf :)
<popey> Morning
<bigcalm> Good evening
<shauno> is /r/all not in the default subs?
<mgdm> that wouldn't really make sense, would it?
<shauno> I don't see why not, because only the top of /r/all would make it to the front page
<SuperMatt> poor /r/atheism
<shauno> so it'd seed the default frontpage with the most interesting posts from everywhere else
<mungbean> sad angry ignorant children in that sub
<SuperMatt> it was a nice place to go to see funny images
<mgdm> The only reason I have a reddit account is to remove /r/atheism
<mungbean> lol
<mungbean> i rarely sub to default ones
<mungbean> i prefer midlyinteresting and pareidolia
<mungbean> unsub all the biggies as its mostly dupes and kids discovering facts of life for the first time
<mungbean> TIL there was a man on the mOON!
<shauno> and he's made of cheese!
<mgdm> what's 'pareidolia'?
<mungbean> things that look like other things, usually faces
<mungbean> its funny
<mgdm> ahh, yes
<mgdm> I knew I'd seen the word but couldn't remember what it was
<mungbean> cos a handdrier has a face liek -_-
<mgdm> my favourite of those is the evil plotting boxes
<mgdm> http://richardwiseman.files.wordpress.com/2012/11/boxes.jpg
<SuperMatt> so good
<bigcalm> Soon
<mungbean> i like the boxes
<mungbean> eeebil
<mungbean> its clear what the line is that people want to pay for ubuntu edge phone
<mungbean> also, would people normally balk at $30 shipping cost?
<bigcalm> It's relative to the cost of the purchase
<HoT|2fC^> Anyone know why I can't access SSH anymore?
<HoT|2fC^> It's just stopped working saying It cant find connection, I have internet on.
<diddledan> I shut off access
<HoT|2fC^> :o
<diddledan> I was fed up with "haxx0rs"
<HoT|2fC^> You did what :D
<HoT|2fC^> Noway!
<mungbean> packets were leaking all over the floor
<HoT|2fC^> waaa
<diddledan> yeah, that too
<HoT|2fC^> Seriously?
<HoT|2fC^> When I try use Putty it says the host im entering does not exist :\
<brobostigon> are you using ip or hostname ?
<HoT|2fC^> both brobostigon still wont work im doing it from my windows machine..
<mungbean> what is the exact error
<HoT|2fC^> Ive been in and out on the iPhone to on my travels.
<mungbean> and can you ping the host from your pc
<HoT|2fC^> mungbean yeah ping works on that server IP
<brobostigon> can you ping the hostname?
<HoT|2fC^> not sure :\
<diddledan> ping is THE most useful program evar!
<HoT|2fC^> let me see
<HoT|2fC^> nope says bad request
<diddledan> followed shortly by dogz
<SuperMatt> nmap the host to see if the port is open
<brobostigon> issue partly solved,
<mungbean> what are you typing
<HoT|2fC^> ping hostname ?
<mungbean> exactly
<HoT|2fC^> in CMD promt lol
<mungbean> what is the hostname
<HoT|2fC^> why?
<HoT|2fC^> :)
<mungbean> what exact characters are you typing
<HoT|2fC^> I know it ..
<mungbean> your pc doesn't know it
<HoT|2fC^> ping "myhost"
<HoT|2fC^> did before :\
<mungbean> in "quotes"?
<brobostigon> dont use ""
<HoT|2fC^> why not now :/ no I didnt use ""
<mungbean> what exact characters are you typing
<mungbean> what exact characters are you typing
<mungbean> gettit?
<HoT|2fC^> ping hostname
<mungbean> is it a host in your house?
<SuperMatt> are you typing hostname in here to protect your hostname, or are you actually typing hostname?
<HoT|2fC^> mungbean yes
<HoT|2fC^> typing hostname to protect my hostname
<mungbean> ok the host has an ip address.
<HoT|2fC^> I did that :)
<mungbean> but your PC can't translate the hostname to IP
<mungbean> can you ping the ip
<mungbean> ping 192.168.1.2
<HoT|2fC^> mungbean: yes
<mungbean> and if you type that in putty?
<HoT|2fC^> I get on PuTTY: Network Error: Timed out.
<mungbean> because sshd is not running on the server maybe
<HoT|2fC^> I rebooted the server?
<HoT|2fC^> How would it turn its self off ?
<mungbean> ps -ef | grep sshd
<HoT|2fC^> I cant access the server mungbean how would I do ps -ef | grep sshd :(
<HoT|2fC^> Even if I go down it says Out of range on my screen anyway \o/
<HoT|2fC^> Also the screen I use, I am using now for my PC in my room.
<HoT|2fC^> So short of screens :o
<mungbean> but it returns ping?
<HoT|2fC^> yes
<mungbean> are you sure it is the correct host?
<mungbean> maybe your phone is using that IP now
<HoT|2fC^> yeah
<HoT|2fC^> :o
<HoT|2fC^> I tried on my phone an it wont let me connect either
<mungbean> look on the wifi router to see which IPs are allocated
<MooDoo> is the sshd running on the server?
<MooDoo> sorry if i'm interferring
<diddledan> networking concepts should be taught at primary schools
<HoT|2fC^> MooDoo it should be yeah
<HoT|2fC^> lol diddledan indeed!
<MooDoo> HoT|2fC^: should?
<HoT|2fC^> it should be running ?
<HoT|2fC^> on the server Monotoko
<HoT|2fC^> MooDoo*
<MooDoo> HoT|2fC^: no the answer should yes it is, if you're not sure it might not be which could be causing your problems :D
<HoT|2fC^> When I go on accteched devices I get my server name "Host" and "IP" with "MAC"
<HoT|2fC^> MooDoo, so why did it work before :]
<MooDoo> hmmmm interesting
<HoT|2fC^> gets me..
<mungbean> you could type blindly into the server if screen is bust
<mungbean> ctrl-alt-f1
<mungbean> username ->
<mungbean> password
<mungbean> sudo service ssh restart
<diddledan> ooh, debian import freeze - that means we're getting close, right?
<mungbean> password
<diddledan> 13.10**
<HoT|2fC^> mungbean, ahh ok ok :)
<HoT|2fC^> I will go ahead and try that now then...
<brobostigon> diddledan: a few more months to go. :)
<diddledan> only 2
<diddledan> that's a couple, not a few :-p
<HoT|2fC^> mungbean just tried that and still no luck :( says Connection Timed out again.
<MooDoo> hmm something doesn't sound right
<HoT|2fC^> yeah I know :\
<HoT|2fC^> weird..
<MooDoo> did you give the server a static ip or is it DHCP?
<HoT|2fC^> I gave it a DHCP :\
<HoT|2fC^> It was static but I then changed it...
<HoT|2fC^> was working fine
<MooDoo> I would of left it as a static IP
<HoT|2fC^> It was dhcp
<HoT|2fC^> then changed to static, then back to dhcp an no problems...
<MooDoo> if you've set it up right it being static should have no prblems if setup ok
<HoT|2fC^> It was ok on my phone I was installing SteamCMD
<HoT|2fC^> logged out an now when I try it on my phone or PC it wont work.
<MooDoo> ok so what's the IP of the server now?
<HoT|2fC^> same its always been :/
<HoT|2fC^> I added it to my Router > LAN
<HoT|2fC^> so it makes it static? I just added the server with IP 192.168.0.xxx
<MooDoo> you shouldn't have to add it to the router....if all machines on your lan are dhcp then it should just work, you ssh from the machine your on to the server using it's IP and if SSHD is enabled it should respond.
<HoT|2fC^> mmm I see ok so must be down on the server ...
<MooDoo> router 192.168.0.1    server 192.168.0.2   pc 192.168.0.3 as and example and you should be able to just ssh
<HoT|2fC^> I must go try this screen now as I changed in the GRUB before the res to 1024x768
<MooDoo> yeah you need to be able to see the server so you can watch what's going on
<MooDoo> and can access it
<HoT|2fC^> Yeah
<HoT|2fC^> Brb :) will go see.
<HoT|2fC^iPad> on my phone i can see tty now i did sudo service ssh restart an get ssh stop/waiting.. ssh start/running, process xxx
<MooDoo> do a ifconfig and confirm the servers ip
<MooDoo> look for eth0
<MartijnVdS> ip addr show dev eth0
<MartijnVdS> ifconfig = old & deprecated
<HoT|2fC^iPad> eth0: 192.160.0.xxx yes its correct IP.
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS: i know but it's a one word command
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: but old & busted :)
<MooDoo> HoT|2fC^: ok what os is on the laptop/pc?
<MattJ> `ifc<TAB>eth0` is too easy
<HoT|2fC^iPad> Ubuntu Server 12.04.2 LTS on DL380 G3
<MartijnVdS> MattJ: alias i='ip addr show dev'
<bigcalm> Anybody know if Spotify have a support route for reporting badly ripped tracks? The one I was listening to just now was really skippy
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: I think that's up to the label
<bigcalm> Oh :|
<SuperMatt> I just do ip a
<MattJ> bigcalm, sure it's the actual audio? Sometimes I get that, but it's fixed by restarting
<MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: ip a s eth0 ?
<SuperMatt> that'll do
<bigcalm> MattJ: all tracks are fine until I get to this one track: http://open.spotify.com/track/7lUEfgYUsAyGw1dNClLU35
<MattJ> bigcalm, but in general no, they don't handle reports for any of the music, including incorrect metadata (quite annoying)
<bigcalm> Shame
<SuperMatt> that's annoying
<bigcalm> It is, as I really like Fish
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: what's wrong with that track?
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: part way though it starts skipping
<HoT|2fC^iPad> dam connection
<HoT|2fC^iPad> it pings from my server to my pc
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: how far in?
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: 3:07
<MooDoo> HoT|2fC^: so what ok is on your pc?  windows?
<MooDoo> sok
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: agreed. it's not on your end :)
<bigcalm> :)
<HoT|2fC^iPad> yes windows
<MooDoo> so using putty what happens when you ssh to the servers IP address?
<HoT|2fC^iPad> same message :/ Connection lost: Timed out
<HoT|2fC^iPad> I have restarted the server now
<MattJ> bigcalm, yeah, it's definitely broken, it keeps repeating "fish" over and over
<MooDoo> HoT|2fC^: on the server sudo netstat -alnp |grep :22
<HoT|2fC^iPad> Loading it back up, can I get intothe GUI instead of this TTY .. Ctrl>Alt>F1
<bigcalm> MattJ: :D
<HoT|2fC^iPad> I get out of range again arghhh
<MartijnVdS> HoT|2fC^iPad: are you on the same network?
<HoT|2fC^iPad> i did crrl alt f1
<MartijnVdS> or are you on another network (different DHCP server, or mobile instead of home, etc.)
<HoT|2fC^iPad> MartijnVdS,  yes
<HoT|2fC^iPad> on my home network
<HoT|2fC^iPad> not using mobiles network now
<HoT|2fC^iPad> Im annoyed cant access an console on server as says out of range still
<SuperMatt> reboot again, but when grub comes up, go in to failsafe mode
<HoT|2fC^iPad> I cant see SuperMatt ??
<HoT|2fC^iPad> Cant see my grub!
<SuperMatt> nothing at all? that seems weird
<SuperMatt> I would have thought grub would pick a safe resolution
<HoT|2fC^iPad> i get _ blink top left an then out of range on screen
<SuperMatt> ok, jam in a usb/cd and reconfigure stuff
<HoT|2fC^iPad> its to do with BIOS ON THIS system sorry caps
<SuperMatt> rather than say sorry caps, why didn't you just fix it?!
<SuperMatt> it wasn't too late!
<HoT|2fC^iPad> mmm then hat with the disc in??
<HoT|2fC^iPad> what*
<DJones> HoT|2fC^iPad: You may want to to remember that us thus ubunt-uk so Enlish is the expected language, "HoT|2fC^iPad> mmm then hat with the disc in??
<DJones> Make absoloutley no sense at all all
<HoT|2fC^iPad> DJones, you try and type via iphone lol
<HoT|2fC^iPad> Ok booted up with ubuntu serer 12.04.2 lts in and will boot from cd yes ?
<HoT|2fC^iPad> booted now what lol
<DJones> HoT|2fC^iPad: I use android myself, however I do read what I write before pressing enter
<SuperMatt> well, if you can see the screen, you can mount your disk and fix the resolution issues
<SuperMatt> and also check your networking
<HoT|2fC^iPad> I can yes SuperMatt when I boot from the disc..
<SuperMatt> never underestimate the power of a live cd/usb
<HoT|2fC^iPad> :o
<MooDoo> isn't it a pain when something so simple just doesn't work :S
<HoT|2fC^iPad> Yes :( I know the feeling.
<HoT|2fC^iPad> Ok I got, Install Ubuntu Server, Multiple server install with MASS, Check disc for defects, Test memory, Boot from first hard disk, Rescue a broken system then i have F1: Help, F2 Language, F3: Keymap, F4: Modes, F5: Accessibility, F6: Other options
<HoT|2fC^iPad> So what now? :)
<MooDoo> HoT|2fC^: are you wanting to just install server? then i would install ubuntu server, when it asks you what options to pick make sure it's SSH server
<HoT|2fC^iPad> MooDoo, I did that :/
<HoT|2fC^iPad> I have it installed already.
<MooDoo> HoT|2fC^iPad: then you're doing something wrong, a simple ubuntu install with a ssh server should just work
<HoT|2fC^iPad> The OS and SSH is installed..
<MartijnVdS> and ping works as well?
<HoT|2fC^iPad> MartijnVdS, yes
<DJones> HoT|2fC^iPad: What happens when you ssh to the server then?
<HoT|2fC^iPad> Same thing as before :/
<HoT|2fC^iPad> Connection timed out
<HoT|2fC^iPad> ising host name to connect ip and external ip
<MartijnVdS> connection timed out makes me think there's a firewall
<MartijnVdS> that's dropping packets
<MartijnVdS> or you're mis-typing the IP
<HoT|2fC^iPad> ohh crap
<HoT|2fC^iPad> I did fire wall settings off here ...
<HoT|2fC^iPad> http://www.ctrlalttech.com/steamCMD_Ubuntu_Linux
<DJones> HoT|2fC^iPad: Presumably you have done the obvious thing and allowed your router to enable ssh connections to your server
<HoT|2fC^iPad> I followed those steps amd enabled firewall that explains it then :O
<MartijnVdS> HoT|2fC^iPad: don't follow random HOWTOs of the internet when you ask other people to help you
<HoT|2fC^iPad> I have to reinstall the os and do it agaim
<MartijnVdS> HoT|2fC^iPad: *first* fix the boot stuff, so you can use the screen
<HoT|2fC^iPad> True but im like that lol I should not really i know z
<MartijnVdS> HoT|2fC^iPad: *then* set up the firewall (preferrably using "ufw")
<MartijnVdS> HoT|2fC^iPad: don't run commands you don't know the meaning of, basically
<HoT|2fC^iPad> Yeah true I will this time
<HoT|2fC^iPad> ok :o thanks MartijnVdS
<MartijnVdS> HoT|2fC^iPad: no problem, just a precaution for next time :)
<HoT|2fC^iPad> MartijnVdS, indeed! I ised entire disc to install I only have one 36GB SCSI drive.
<HoT|2fC^iPad> used*
<HoT|2fC^iPad> Is that ok? or would i of needed to do a swap file and ext4 pr something
<MartijnVdS> HoT|2fC^iPad: that's what the "full disk" install does automatically I think
<HoT|2fC^iPad> Ah okok :) no need to worry there then.
<HoT|2fC^iPad> shell i no install grub as it will be the only OS on my hard drive? its asking Install the grub boot loader on a hard disk?
<MartijnVdS> HoT|2fC^iPad: select the option that installs it in "mbr" or "master boot record"
<HoT|2fC^iPad> Can I not just select "no" ? As its messing my res up anyway
<MartijnVdS> it won't boot without a boot loader
<HoT|2fC^iPad> oh right ok good job I didnt hit no lol
<HoT|2fC^> ok Im back and running, so I have Ubuntu Server 12.04.2 LTS (32Bit) running on my server... and when I turn it on I get "Out of Range" along my 17inch LCD monitor, so I have SSH installed and I am able to access it via my Windows PC using PuTTY.
<MartijnVdS> HoT|2fC^: yay :)
<HoT|2fC^> I am now in the System, what do I do from here?
<HoT|2fC^> hehe MartijnVdS ;) ty ty!
<MartijnVdS> HoT|2fC^: I sent you a HOWTO yesterday, to fix grub
<HoT|2fC^> Framebuffer?
<MartijnVdS> http://askubuntu.com/questions/92276/how-do-i-boot-into-true-text-mode -> Jorge Castro's answer
<HoT|2fC^> wiki how one ..
<HoT|2fC^> ah ok ok :)
<MartijnVdS> ^ that fixes grub
<MartijnVdS> after that, we fix the kernel :)
<diddledan> what's wrong with the kernel?
<diddledan> o_O
<HoT|2fC^> Ok I see :)
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: his monitor claims to support a resolution it doesn't support
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: so the kernel happily drives it at the high resolution
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: but the screen goes "EEP"
<HoT|2fC^> yes diddledan what he said.
<diddledan> oh dear
<HoT|2fC^> Yeah it's kinda bad, but fixable :)
<diddledan> nomodeset :-p
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: yeah but *grub* also uses a nonstandard graphics mode these days
<diddledan> ergh
<HoT|2fC^> yeah
<diddledan> that's annoying
<HoT|2fC^> bummer :)
<HoT|2fC^> indeed!
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: monitors should just have proper info embedded
<MartijnVdS> HoT|2fC^: how old are your screens? :)
<HoT|2fC^> MartijnVdS its a Digimate 17inch LCD its around 8 years
<diddledan> very old by the sounds
<HoT|2fC^> more..
<HoT|2fC^> I have another one but a Samtron 17inch LCD thats busted :)
<MartijnVdS> HoT|2fC^: yeah, current monitors have proper ID chips in them.. old ones (especially off-brand ones) don't :)
<HoT|2fC^> Ah yeah I understand...
<HoT|2fC^> hey MartijnVdS am I right in doing this after I installed Ubuntu...
<HoT|2fC^> sudo apt-get update > sudo apt-get upgrade
<HoT|2fC^> ?
<MartijnVdS> HoT|2fC^: that updates the package list, then upgrades all packages that have updates available
<HoT|2fC^> I nice nice
<HoT|2fC^> Ah8
<MartijnVdS> HoT|2fC^: 'man apt-get' will tell you what it does exactly
<HoT|2fC^> http://pastebin.com/6SUfzyvB
<HoT|2fC^> thats what I get when I do "man apt-get"
<diddledan> ok, grub-pc (2.0) uses the option "GRUB_TERMINAL=console" to disable the gfx - not sure how to do it in grub 1 anymore
<diddledan> that's in /etc/default/grub
<HoT|2fC^> guys could I remote desktop it ?
<MartijnVdS> HoT|2fC^: yeah, that's the manual :)
<MartijnVdS> HoT|2fC^: uh.. you ssh'd to it
<HoT|2fC^> MartijnVdS, oh man I fail LoL
<MartijnVdS> HoT|2fC^: you would you also remote-desktop? :)
<MartijnVdS> HoT|2fC^: press 'q' to quit the pager
<MartijnVdS> HoT|2fC^: there are manuals for most (if not all) commands you can run
<HoT|2fC^> nice :)
<HoT|2fC^> 'q' is a nice one
 * popey heads home
<Laney> zoom zoom
<MartijnVdS> popey: *woosh*
 * HoT|2fC^ hands him some petrol moneys..
 * Laney heads to read his book in the park
<HoT|2fC^> go super fast! :D only kidding, safe journeys.
<Laney> stupid Qt has annoyed me of the computer
<Laney> off
<diddledan> don't listen to the william tell overture!
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: ?
<HoT|2fC^> MartijnVdS, so now I go to edit /etc/default/grub
<diddledan> MartijnVdS: makes you drive too fast
<MartijnVdS> HoT|2fC^: yes, like the post on askubuntu explains how
<HoT|2fC^> how would I edit it ?
<HoT|2fC^> do I need to use vim
<diddledan> nano
<HoT|2fC^> or some editer
<MartijnVdS> HoT|2fC^: you can use any editor you like
<MartijnVdS> nano is probably the easiest
<HoT|2fC^> so id do nano then /etc/default/grub
<diddledan> I like nano except that it uses ^w for find so I get used to it and then try the same combo in my gui editors >.<
<MartijnVdS> HoT|2fC^: well, that file can only be edited by the superuser
<MartijnVdS> HoT|2fC^: so you have to run nano as superuser: sudo nano /etc/default/grub
<MartijnVdS> HoT|2fC^: man sudo ;)
<diddledan> HoT|2fC^: ofc, if you have trouble with man, try: man man :-p
<HoT|2fC^> lol
<HoT|2fC^> :)
<HoT|2fC^> ok im in
<MartijnVdS> no really
<HoT|2fC^> ah right haha thats cool :)
<diddledan> self-hosting ftw
<diddledan> gcc compiles gcc,etc.
<HoT|2fC^> so I add these lines to my grub menu ?
<diddledan> the lines should already be there
<diddledan> you just need to change them to be the same as shown
<HoT|2fC^> ah ok :)
<HoT|2fC^> ty diddledan
<diddledan> line 11 needs a # at the beginning, and line 20 needs the # removed
<HoT|2fC^> really?
<diddledan> (according to the answer on the askubuntu page)
<HoT|2fC^> :o
<diddledan> you could change line 11 instead of putting the # leave it as is but replace "quiet splash" with "nomodeset"
<HoT|2fC^> to edit in nano what do I press to edit ?
<HoT|2fC^> ok
<diddledan> erm.. anything?
<HoT|2fC^> just type
<HoT|2fC^> lol
<diddledan> yup, it's not arcane like vim
<HoT|2fC^> ah ok nice :)
<HoT|2fC^> and for my gfx res size shell I do 1024x768?
<diddledan> I think I'm a coke addict
<diddledan> HoT|2fC^: you shouldn't need to touch the resolution if you uncomment GRUB_TERMINAL=console
<HoT|2fC^> if I uncomment beep at grub start will it beep
 * neuro has just ordered a bunch of stuff to upgrade his esxi server this w/e
<diddledan> it should do if your server has a speaker embedded
<HoT|2fC^> diddledan, but that (grub-pc only) does that not mean not for a server
<diddledan> neuro: esxi requires windows to manage it, doesn't it?
<HoT|2fC^> ah yeah it beeps has speaker.
<neuro> sadly
<neuro> which is why i keep a dell vostro hanging around
<neuro> and win7 VMs on my macbook pros
<neuro> should be pretty funky
<diddledan> HoT|2fC^: no, grub-pc means the version of grub, (for BIOS based computers as opposed to EFI/uEFI based)
<neuro> the 1tb that the machine shipped with is knackered, i'm pretty sure
<neuro> so have ordered a 500gb wd black to replace it
<HoT|2fC^> diddledan, ty
<neuro> and a synology ds213j with 2x wd red 2tb for vm storage
<diddledan> neuro: I'm jealous
<neuro> quarterly bonus time \o/
<diddledan> no fair
<neuro> bit mad, ebuyer were doing a bundle deal
<diddledan> I haven't checked how much I got paid yet today
<neuro> ds213j with 2x wd red 2tb preinstalled
<diddledan> ooh
<neuro> for about 360 quid
 * diddledan clickies
<neuro> but they're doing a special on 2tb reds until the 31st
<neuro> so it's actually cheaper to buy the bare ds213j and the 2tb reds separately
<neuro> comes out to about 230 quid
<neuro> erk
<neuro> 320 quid
<neuro> first time playing with synology stuff, so should be interesting
<HoT|2fC^> diddledan, after I have done sudo update-grub
<HoT|2fC^> can I remote test it then ?
<diddledan> synologys are quite nice
<HoT|2fC^> so I can see whats on screen (IE: Login Screen).
<HoT|2fC^> Access the desktop ?
<HoT|2fC^> on my server be nice !
<diddledan> HoT|2fC^: you installed server, there is no desktop
<neuro> also means i can shut down my old esxi 4 server, so this'll save electricity in the long run :)
<diddledan> HoT|2fC^: the point of server is that it is bare-minimum to operate so that you can run mission critical workloads without things like gui desktop providing attack vectors
<MartijnVdS> (or memory/cpu load)
<neuro> or using up additional system resources
<neuro> yeah
<diddledan> yeah, them too
<neuro> those pesky rams
<diddledan> baaa
<HoT|2fC^> lol yhaha yeah nice
<HoT|2fC^> I see
<diddledan> how dare you incite my welshness?!
<HoT|2fC^> :}
<HoT|2fC^> how do I save in nano now im done?
<diddledan> press ctrl+x and then type y followed by enter
<MartijnVdS> like it says at the bottom
<HoT|2fC^> done now sudo update-grub
<diddledan> yup
<HoT|2fC^> ok thats done
<HoT|2fC^> now kernal :o
<HoT|2fC^> MartijnVdS, where are ya :D
<neuro> i must admit, i was tempted to buy more toys off ebuyer but i'm gonna save some pennies to get an xbox one in november :)
<diddledan> :-o microsnot?! </troll>
<neuro> if microsoft do one thing well, it's hardware
 * neuro hugs his 360
<diddledan> which happens to be quite ironic for a software company
<neuro> in fact i'll be off to play some battlefield 3 soon
<neuro> ha yeah
<diddledan> ergh, my work siren just went off
<diddledan> something's broke
<neuro> wow, this is the first order i've placed with ebuyer since august
<neuro> when i bought all my stuff to build my esxi box
<neuro> ram, nics etc
<HoT|2fC^> how do you unzip a tar.gz file ?
<diddledan> HoT|2fC^: tar zxvf file.tar.gz
<HoT|2fC^> diddledan, thanks I was just doing that before and I got a error let me see...
<neuro> bear in mind that will unpack the tarball into the current directory
<neuro> you can see what's inside by using the test flag: tar tvzf file.tar.gz
<neuro> and i usually create a temp or scratch or fish or bob or whatever subdirectory, cd in and unpack in there
<neuro> tar xvzf ../file.tar.gz
<HoT|2fC^> yeah Im doing "steam"
<HoT|2fC^> so id be in steam directtory
<HoT|2fC^> an unpack the SteamCMD
<HoT|2fC^> to install CS:S
<diddledan> mkdir foo; tar zxvf file.tar.gz -C foo
<MartijnVdS> man tar
<HoT|2fC^> whos man and what does man do :o
<diddledan> man man
<HoT|2fC^> :D
 * popey moos from portland airport
<neuro> pdx?
<popey> ya
<neuro> saucy
<MartijnVdS> popey: long wait?
<popey> a few hours
 * popey has found a power socket
<MartijnVdS> popey: it only delivers half the voltage though
<popey> yeah, charger gets twice as hot
<MartijnVdS> popey: had a good time in Portland, overall?
<popey> very
<popey> gave the phone demo so many times
<popey>  booth was constantly busy with people wanting to see it
<popey> and people kept coming back to tell us they had backed the campaign after seeing us demo it
<diddledan> nice
<diddledan> that's good to hear
<mungbean> yeah
<diddledan> we're not advancing fast enough tho.. still only on 6.6
<mungbean> do a demo on youtube, or is there one~?
<diddledan> there's a teaser promo
<diddledan> as featured on the indiegogo
<popey> yeah, could do a demo of the latest state of the system
<popey> in fact
 * popey flashes his phone with latest image while on airport wifi
<diddledan> lol
<neuro> christ, you're brave
<diddledan> that's impressive dedication!
<MartijnVdS> he's going to try to get the entire plane to pledge on the flight bakc
<diddledan> how long's the flight? in fact, do a presentation once the stewards have done theirs
<popey> portland -> vancouver -> london
<popey> arrive tomorrow at 11am
<MartijnVdS> popey: portland -> vancouver is just a small hop though right?
<neuro> speaking of pledges
<popey> no idea
<neuro> yesterday was 32K/hr
<neuro> today so far is 21K/hr :(
<MartijnVdS> popey: it's a 1 hour flight
<popey> oddly flew london -> calgary -> portland on the way here
<popey> i no longer check the indiegogo page now I have an indicator showing me the current level â»
<MartijnVdS> popey: (there's also a Vancouver just north of Portland in WA)
<popey> yeah, some people from domain.com were in the booth next to us and came from there
<MartijnVdS> but Vancouver, WA (in the US) has no airport, because it's next to the Portland International one :)
<mungbean> going to portland UK for my holiday this year :D
<diddledan> ok, so.. I _need_ a siren to go off whenever there's a new email in a specific gmail label. how easy will it be to code up a thingy for ubuntu touch that will do that for me so I always get alerted when something breaks? (note, I'm php+javascript by trade)
<diddledan> that's the only thing that I require out of my android that I'm not willing to lose
<diddledan> other than phone, obv
<ali1234> well currently you would have to do it through web apps
<diddledan> hmm
<ali1234> it would be fairly easy
<ali1234> the gmail webapp already list the number of unread emails in each labels
<shauno> php will hit up imap easy enough, it's not ridiculuous.  but are web apps allowed to stay resident?
<ali1234> the siren part could be hard though
<ali1234> you probably are limited to only ubuntu notifications without a lot of excessive hackery
<ali1234> php is not involved
<ali1234> webapps are javascript. they work exactly like greasemonkey with an extra javascript api for unity integration
<ali1234> in fact the mozilla version is a fork of greasemonkey, or used to be
<shauno> just thinking that's how I'd do it, personally.  an app on the phone that pings a server every so often.  the server replies with a little json that gives you a count of how many mails are in that imap folder.  webapp goes nuts when that value doesn't match the previous
<ali1234> there is no reason to use webapps if you do it that way
<ali1234> Qt would be a better choice. it can easily monitor a json-rpc
<ali1234> the only reason to use webapps instead of Qt is because the gmail webapps already exists
<HoT|2fC^> anything I can type to get up my usage, processes etc in terminal ?
<diddledan> HoT|2fC^: top
<MartijnVdS> HoT|2fC^: top?
<diddledan> or ps aux
<MartijnVdS> HoT|2fC^: ps (it needs a few command line options -- see 'man ps'
<shauno> htop!
<MartijnVdS> shauno: no swearing
<HoT|2fC^> LoL
<diddledan> shauno: you gone sweedish? (shtop...)
<shauno> gek nederlandeer!  htop has teh pretties
<HoT|2fC^> yeah I remember that htop nice one shauno
<HoT|2fC^> What about temps :o
<MartijnVdS> shauno: *gekke Nederlander
<HoT|2fC^> Interesting, an that fan speed LoL its noisey the server.
<diddledan> HoT|2fC^: servers always are
<MartijnVdS> servers tend to sound like airports
<popey> apparently a De Havilland Canada DHC-8-300 Dash 8
<shauno> that's quite normal for a server.  mine has .. I think 16 fans?
<diddledan> popey: and you!
<HoT|2fC^> MartijnVdS, yeah lol nice an load its in basement so its ok :)
<MartijnVdS> popey: I flew in one of those to B'ham and back
<MartijnVdS> popey: not too bad, but no intercontinental airliner :)
<popey> looks cozy
<shauno> be afraid, it's british :p
<neuro> wat?
<shauno> De Havilland are, or were at least, british
<neuro> DHC stands for de Havilland Canada
<neuro> and they're made by Bombardier now, canadian company
<diddledan> I wonder how I'd get on if I upgraded to saucy sausage 2 months early
<popey> wasn't canonical one a Bombardier plane?
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: works fine here
<MartijnVdS> popey: it is
<popey> he has a new one now I think
<popey> not the same plane
<MartijnVdS> popey: Canonical Two?
<popey> heh
<MartijnVdS> or is it a title that passes to the next plane?
<neuro> bombardier global express
<HoT|2fC^> anyway of getting syste, and cpu temps up in terminal?
<neuro> owned by HBD Venture Capital
<MartijnVdS> HoT|2fC^: depends
<HoT|2fC^> MartijnVdS, just something basic.
<MartijnVdS> HoT|2fC^: you'll need to google that one.. system temps - no idea
<HoT|2fC^> Ok :)
<HoT|2fC^> ty
<shauno> 'sensors' is about as basic as it gets (package lm_sensors I think)
<neuro> aye
<neuro> but read about it first
<MartijnVdS> isn't lm_sensors old & busted?
<neuro> it's still in the repos
<shauno> no idea.  seems to work fine on my machines.  but they're no spring chickens either
<HoT|2fC^> I did lm-sensors
<HoT|2fC^> not found :/
<neuro> http://packages.ubuntu.com/precise/lm-sensors
<shauno> if it's been abandoned instead of fixed, that'll make me *sigh*
<neuro> it's in universe
<neuro> it's not
<neuro> and i'll wager 2fC hasn't enabled universe
<neuro> or multiverse
<HoT|2fC^> neuro can I get in terminal ?
<neuro> you can get anything in the termainl
<neuro> s/termainl/terminal/
<neuro> if you've just done a basic install, your package sources are probably a bit of a mess right now
<HoT|2fC^> its not a basic
<HoT|2fC^> its a full install :o
 * neuro sighs
<neuro> :)
<HoT|2fC^> :o
<neuro> if you want, and i've no doubt i'll get shouted at for suggesting this, you can edit /etc/apt/sources.list as root
<neuro> blank it
<neuro> and just have these three lines:
<neuro> deb http://gb.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ precise main restricted universe multiverse
<neuro> deb http://gb.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ precise-updates main restricted univers
<mungbean> i just watched the ubuntu edge video on the IGG site
<neuro> e multiverse
<neuro> (stupid cropping)
<neuro> deb http://security.ubuntu.com/ubuntu precise-security main restricted universe multiverse
<mungbean> related videos...video of stallman dissing ubuntu
<neuro> argh
<neuro> THE BEARDED ONE
<MartijnVdS> HoT|2fC^: like I said, don't run commands you don't know
<MartijnVdS> neuro: Please use pastebin :P
<neuro> i would have
<MartijnVdS> HoT|2fC^: what does "apt-get install lm-sensors" say?
<neuro> but it's only three lines ;)
<neuro> it'll say not found, because i'll wager he doesn't have universe enabled
<MartijnVdS> neuro: it's enabled by default
<neuro> you sure?
<shauno> we're about to find out ;)
<MartijnVdS> neuro: it is on my install, and I haven't enabled it
<neuro> i usually need to futz about with my sources
<neuro> hmm
<neuro> good point
<neuro> nonetheless, i usually remove the source repos anyway
<neuro> i never use them
<neuro> and tidying up sources.list is just an old habit i have
<mungbean> and use return key less often :P
<MartijnVdS> mungbean:
<MartijnVdS> why
<MartijnVdS> ?
<neuro> http://pastebin.com/dGqThGmH
<HoT|2fC^> MartijnVdS: http://pastebin.com/nbWnvPHQ
<MartijnVdS> wut..
<neuro> although my usual sources list looks like this: http://pastebin.com/FgLDNC8e
<MartijnVdS> HoT|2fC^: did you install any packages?
<MartijnVdS> HoT|2fC^: manually?
<HoT|2fC^> no
<MartijnVdS> HoT|2fC^: then.. apt-get dist-upgrade please, to install *all* security updates
<neuro> have you done an apt-get dist-upg.... ha snap
<HoT|2fC^> MartijnVdS: http://pastebin.com/NkDuzMXr
<neuro> something has messed up during a previous upgrade
<HoT|2fC^> neuro, when I started the server I did, apt-get update and apt-get upgrade
<HoT|2fC^> ive not restarted since :/
<neuro> restarting doesn't matter
<HoT|2fC^> mm ok
<neuro> not at the moment anyway
<HoT|2fC^> :]
<HoT|2fC^> dont say that
<HoT|2fC^> :(
<neuro> ?
<neuro> you'll need to restart if and when new kernels are installed
<HoT|2fC^> I want it to stay alive :d
<HoT|2fC^> yeah
<diddledan> that's one of my bugbears, actually. the automated security updates system on ubuntu server prompts for rebooting far too regularly
<neuro> that's why i don't run the automated updates :)
<diddledan> (as does the desktop updates tool)
<neuro> i'd do an apt-get remove lm-sensors ; apt-get update ; apt-get dist-upgrade
<HoT|2fC^> neuro, me ?
<neuro> no, the *other* guy installing ubuntu server ;)
<neuro> yes you :)
<HoT|2fC^> LoL
<HoT|2fC^> ah ok :) so you want me to type all those commands
<HoT|2fC^> in one with ; ;
<neuro> if you're at a root shell, yes
<neuro> if not just prefix each apt-get with sudo
<neuro> in fact
<neuro> change the ; to &&
<neuro> just to be safe
<HoT|2fC^> do I need to put install to ?
<HoT|2fC^> aget apt-get
<neuro> ?
<HoT|2fC^> after*
<neuro> let's just sort this problem first before we create new ones
<Azelphur> just heard a "horror story" from one of my friends that we might all be interested in
<neuro> sudo apt-get remove lm-sensors && sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get dist-upgrade
<HoT|2fC^> wont work
<HoT|2fC^> get same message as before about -f
<Azelphur> Someone stole a friend of mines laptop, he reported it to the police, as you do, the thieves got caught, so in an effort for revenge, they told the police that he had child porn on the laptop, the police arrested him and he got stuck in jail for a month
<Azelphur> (Obviously, no such thing on the laptop)
<Azelphur> but pretty crazy
<neuro> wtf
<HoT|2fC^> E: Unmet dependencies. Try 'apt-get -f install' with no packages (or specify a solution).
<neuro> so do this: sudo apt-get -f install
<Azelphur> makes me want to encrypt all the things
<neuro> Azelphur: RIPA
<Azelphur> neuro: yea, this was in USA
<neuro> you'd be forced to hand over your keys
<neuro> oh right
<Azelphur> oh wow, we have force to hand over your keys laws?
<neuro> have done for years
<Azelphur> that's broken \o/
<Azelphur> yay for testifying against yourself
<neuro> http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2000/23/contents
<HoT|2fC^> ok working all precise security updates
<Azelphur> neuro: makes me want to do something that makes it so that even if I give them the keys, they still can't access it
<HoT|2fC^> neuro, there done then :)
<neuro> now do: sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get dist-upgrade
<neuro> just to be on the safe side
<HoT|2fC^> Roger that!
<neuro> yay, all my ebuyer goodies are coming from the same warehouse
<neuro> single delivery \o/
<HoT|2fC^> I love that single delivery! hate Amazon when the send 1-by-1 lol
<neuro> i don't mind that so much
<neuro> but all this stuff is tied together
<neuro> i need the wd reds to install in the nas to connect to the esxi server that i'm putting the wd black into
<neuro> ahhh just realised i need to do some GigE switch shenanigans to accomodate another nas :P
<diddledan> most switches these days can be daisy-chained
<neuro> yeah, that's the plan
<neuro> i have a spare linksys to plug into the procurve
<neuro> move my laptop and desktop over to it
<diddledan> annoying, however, is that they don't like loops
<neuro> that'll free up a port and i can plug the new nas in there
<neuro> keep the throughput up so it's port to port to the esxi box
<neuro> dammit
<neuro> that's what else i meant to buy
<neuro> http://www.ebuyer.com/225328-hp-v1410-16g-gigabit-switch-j9560a
<neuro> my current one is only an 8-port
<neuro> too late to change the order :(
<diddledan> why you using esxi rather than kvm or xen, if I may be so bold?
<HoT|2fC^> neuro, there done :)
<neuro> just preference
<neuro> nominally one less OS to worry about
<diddledan> fair enough
<neuro> since it's lighter than running ubuntu + kvm
<neuro> 2fC: cool, have fun :)
<neuro> though it does have the pain in the bum of needing windows to manage it more easily
<HoT|2fC^> neuro, awesome thanks for that and you MartijnVdS, diddledan, MooDoo :)
<neuro> yw
<HoT|2fC^> brobostigon you to buddy!
<shauno> I keep meaning to play with esxi, and keep running into the same problem :/
<diddledan> there's proxmox for a linux+kvm/openvz solution, but it doesn't really stand up against the big players
<diddledan> http://proxmox.org/proxmox-ve
<shauno> I still find openstack very interesting, but it's a complete beast to configure
<mungbean> cloudstack easier
 * HoT|2fC^ pokes TheKernalMan
<neuro> "Order Despatched"
<neuro> good grief
<neuro> i only ordered it at 7pm
<diddledan> when's delivery?
<neuro> sometime tomorrow
<diddledan> impressive
<diddledan> that's quick shiny turnaround
<neuro> oh no
<neuro> OH NO
<neuro> "This part of your order will be delivered by Yodel."
<neuro> NOOOOOOOOOO </vader>
<diddledan> dear dog!
<neuro> hope it makes it alive
<neuro> hope i actually get it tomorrow
<shauno> hope you actually get it :/
<neuro> if they put a card through the door, i will go postal (no pun intended)
<neuro> looks like tomorrow is "sit in the office and play simcity" day
<neuro> office is right next to the front door
<diddledan> they'll find a way for you to miss them
<mungbean> which version SC?>
<diddledan> they'll wait till you pee
<diddledan> then pounce
<neuro> i'll see anyone walking up to the door, so if they come up to the door, don't knock, and put a card through, i'll bloomin' well have them
<neuro> diddledan: i can hold it :)
<mungbean> i think royal mail should sell lockable mail boxes at cost price , would work out cheaper if everyone had a drop box
<mungbean> outside their house
 * neuro can go 24h without a wee wee if necessary
<diddledan> nice to know
<neuro> mungbean: they'd need to be made of titanium encased in concrete and have 480V running through them
<mungbean> i went from 5-11 without doing a wee at school
<mungbean> school toilets were an open sewer
<diddledan> mungbean: 6 years?!
<neuro> lol
<neuro> i thought you'd meant 5am-11am
<neuro> mungbean: anyway, to distract the conversation's current direction, the latest simcity
<MartijnVdS> neuro: 5am to 11pm
<neuro> am waiting patiently for the delayed mac version to come out so i can play simcity in the living room without having to run it in a VM
<mungbean> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-23460709
<mungbean> the plague?
<neuro> yeah, saw that
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: the black one
<neuro> the squirrels are carriers
<mungbean> bubonic?
<neuro> yup
<neuro> so they have to double check if the squirrel was just a carrier and died of natural causes, or if it was the plague that killed it
<neuro> happens every few years over there
<neuro> but, of course, it's the news, so PLAGUE ZOMG RUN!
<neuro> speaking of bubonic plague, time to order up my payday pizza from dominos
<diddledan> what a good idea
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: payday pizza?
<diddledan> nah, the plague! :-/
<diddledan> :-p
<neuro> "We're sorry but you can't complete your order without entering your full postcode."
<neuro> but i'm logged in
<shauno> careful, you'll start to sound like dan brown :p
<neuro> why don't you know my postcode?!
<diddledan> shauno: I've got the right name
<shauno> there used to be a script to order dominos
<diddledan> really?
<diddledan> dominos API?!
<neuro> hehe
<neuro> wouldn't surprise me
 * diddledan needs
<neuro> na, scraper most likely
<diddledan> ./dominos -o something_hot -t NOW
<neuro> i remember ordering online from them in 2000 when i was working in chelmsford
<neuro> cash only :)
<diddledan> who remembers sandra bullock's pizza ordering in "the net"?!
<neuro> haha
<neuro> some of the worst Movie OS examples are in that movie
<diddledan> hell yeah
<neuro> not quite as egregious as what you see in most Jerry Bruckheimer movies ...
<neuro> but still ...
<shauno> hm, perhaps I was wrong .. all I can find now are scripts that parse the tracker
<MartijnVdS> wow.. that's 18 years old already
<diddledan> I don't get why film makers insist on faking it
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: because it's flashier
<mungbean> there's an odd/boring programme called 4 rooms on atm
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: on where?
<mungbean> ch4
<shauno> if people realised that at nuclear subs use win2k, they're be worried
<shauno> *our
<mungbean> seems to be so many programmes all about money and wheeler dealers
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: isn't it the film? "Four Rooms"?
<shauno> I can't type anymore.  I almost always find real words, but they're not always the same ones my head had in mind
<diddledan> they actually created physical three-dimensional models for the ui in hackers because computer generated graphics weren't realistic enough
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: with Madonna and Tarantino?
<MartijnVdS> http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0113101/
<neuro> this will be good once they populate it more: http://www.noteloop.com/kit/fui/
<mungbean> no, its a programme
<diddledan> shauno: are you sure it's 2000, and not NT3.51?
<shauno> it's 2k on the trident boats
<MartijnVdS> http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=20010111 + the next week of comics
<shauno> that was done during a refit :/
<diddledan> how progressive of them
<neuro> and for your viewing pleasure ...
<neuro> http://www.oooii.com/wp-content/uploads/2003/06/OOOii_IJ_v10.png
<neuro> NAME THAT FILM!
<mungbean> http://www.theverge.com/2013/7/23/4551114/wwi-submarine-graveyard-discovered-by-underwater-archaeologists
<MartijnVdS> neuro: enemy of the state?
<neuro> nope
<diddledan> nope
<diddledan> that's a tough one
<neuro> and no-one go using google image search :)
<neuro> no cheaty!
<diddledan> the italian job 2.0
<neuro> *ding*
<neuro> winner
<diddledan> wow
<diddledan> good guess
<mungbean> ther's a IJ2?
<neuro> the reboot
<mungbean> ugh hate hollywood
<diddledan> mungbean: remake
<shauno> it wasn't called 2, but .. yeah
<neuro> with marky mark and whats her face theron
<neuro> and THE STATHAM
<shauno> with americans and germinis :(
<neuro> germinis? :))))
<neuro> like it
<shauno> although they did include one scene with an actual mini
<neuro> aye, near the start
<neuro> when she's boosting about philly being a crazy driver
<neuro> DOMINO'S REALTIME ORDER TRACKER ENGAGED!
<shauno> I was thinking about the safecracker showing up in a lil red one
<neuro> yes
<neuro> that's the same scene i was talking about
<diddledan> lol @ that img - they've got a command "DWORD PTR"
<neuro> i hate to admit it ... i actually liked the reboot
<neuro> remake
<neuro> whatever
<shauno> it wasn't terrible.  it just wasn't the italian job
<neuro> no
<neuro> true
<diddledan> the problem was.. america
<neuro> if they took out the line "we'll do it like the italian job" and changed the minis for something else, it could have been called anything
<diddledan> if america didn't exist it would have been fine
<diddledan> no american actors, and it would have actually been in italy
<neuro> not sure the original would have existed :)
<shauno> reminds me, my old mini's being entered in an event that's aimed at the new minis :D
<shauno> http://www.minionthemack.com .. my mother's taking my 1974.  she's totally gonna confuse the yanks
<neuro> i misread that url
<neuro> i was like "who's Minion the Mack?"
<diddledan> too much pixar for you
<neuro> wut
<ali1234> what do you mean "misread", that is what it says
<neuro> diddledan: you know despicable me has nothing to do with pixar, right? :)
<mungbean> my christmas tree died this week :(
<mungbean> forgot to water it
<diddledan> really? it's not a pixar?
<diddledan> dreamworks then?
<neuro> you're mocking me, aren't you?
<shauno> I just can't wait for the pics.  they're handing out antenna flags to the entrants.  my mini doesn't have an antenna.  or radio.  or .. anything it didn't need
<diddledan> shauno: bricks for wheels?
<neuro> diddledan: illumination entertainment
<shauno> nah. it needs wheels :)
<neuro> part of Universal
<diddledan> I've not heard of them
<neuro> founded by the guy who used to be in charge of Fox Animation
<diddledan> shauno: reverse gear?
<ali1234> any two bit movie studio can make a 3d animated film these days
<ali1234> it's no longer difficult nor considered risky
<shauno> diddledan: if you can find it
<diddledan> not any two bit studio can make a good one tho
<neuro> yeah, that
<neuro> same can be said of live action movies too now
<neuro> anyone with a decent hd camcorder and final cut pro can make a movie
<diddledan> can I? sweet
<ali1234> well, making a good movie is more about having a good script
<neuro> cha ching
<ali1234> which to be honest is more likely to happen when you don't have a massive studio lots of meddling execs
<diddledan> sharknado is totally one to look out for
<neuro> i can't wait to see this though
<neuro> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Blue_Umbrella_(2013_film)
<diddledan> the strapline is "enough said"
<neuro> it looks Stunning
<neuro> as in stunning with a capital S
<diddledan> preview clip anyplace?
<neuro> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVFNRrL79w0
<diddledan> yey, advert for sainsbury's
<neuro> y u no adblock
<neuro> http://www.theverge.com/2013/6/24/4457542/saschka-unseld-pixar-photorealism-and-making-the-blue-umbrella
<neuro> oh, 1080p version of that clip in that verge article
<neuro> and my pizza is on its way \o/
<neuro> right troops, talk to you all later ;)
<mungbean> http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/07/26/new-version-of-monopoly-that-addresses-dwindling-attention-spans-will-exclude-some-pretty-important-aspects-of-the-game/
<mungbean> is thisreal?
<mungbean> "Parents and children tell us they want a quick in-and-out, frictionless gaming experience"
<mungbean> ooer missis
<mungbean> i wonder if there has ever been a death attributed to momnopoloyl
<diddledan> probably monopoly-related violence
<diddledan> that damned iron hurts!
<mungbean> do you play full scale 1:1 version?
<mungbean> drive to mayfair..
<diddledan> that'ld be an awesome app
<mungbean> surprised top gear aint dunnit already
<mungbean> man, researching my lancaster 1:72 build taking ages, havent even got it out of packet yet
<mungbean> this is epic music http://bips.channel4.com/programmes/the-returned/articles/all/listen-to-the-returned-soundtrack
<shauno> :/  dominos have renamed my favourite meal-deal the 'all-american special'.  now I feel fat and I'm not sure I wanna order
<ali1234> dominos is just horrible. why would you even go there
<diddledan> I like herbies
<ali1234> even the local kebab shop pizzas are less revolting
<shauno> because I can order online, which is awesome
<mungbean> i ate pizza hut yesterday and had a dodgy  gut today
<diddledan> shauno: does ireland have herbies - you can order online from them and they're way better than dominos
<mungbean> papajohns?
<shauno> they have a 'thing' here for giving all the new builds gaelic names.  which is great, but galway has a very high immigrant population (50% aren't from the county, 25% aren't from the country).
<diddledan> yeah papajohns are good too
<shauno> so I end up trying to give a street address that I can't pronounce, to a bangladeshi who wouldn't understand it even if I did
<shauno> which isn't to fault them any more than it faults me.  gaelic results in some crazy streetnames
<shauno> the last place I lived, I couldn't even spell after 3 years, let alone pronounce
<diddledan> shauno: try my surname :-p
<diddledan> mind you, my surname is quite sane compared to irish
<shauno> eh, I've had that one figured out ever since that flamboyant interior designer showed up on TV
<shauno> I Think there was even one in harry potter.  it's not actually an uncommon name.  it's just rather welsh
<diddledan> welsh is awesome
<shauno> I won't go there :)
<diddledan> too many sheep?
<shauno> I'm still scarred from living on the wrong side of the hill, and only being able to receive s4c
<shauno> when all of school was talking about Friends, and mine was dubbed in nonsense
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> pobol y cwm is where's it's at now
<diddledan> lass from torchwood is in that
<diddledan> she's hawt in a welsh sort of way
<shauno> dominos have forgotten my address :(
<diddledan> \o/
<diddledan> that's impressive
<shauno> it's not.  now I have to go outside and find out what it is :(
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> you'll get acosted by a garda and have to admit that you have no idea where you live. they might plop you in an asylum for that
<shauno> seriously, I hate these things that try to match you against the post office db
<shauno> if I spell it with an 'a' it thinks I'm in leitrim, if I spell it with an Ã¡ it thinks I'm dublin.  I'm neither
<diddledan> you got the wrong Ã¡
<shauno> don't even
<diddledan> and I just had to go on a hunting mission for that one
<diddledan> aparently it's alt_gr+;, a
<shauno> another reason I <3 my weirdo keyboard layout
<shauno> I need things like Ä far too often.  I need some sensible deadkeys
<diddledan> what layout do you use?
<diddledan> if you say dvorak I might have to punch you
<shauno> apple's "international english", which is basically US english on an iso (vs ansi) layout.  but with a fantastic selection of deadkeys hiding behind Alt
<diddledan> aah
<diddledan> yeah apple's british english is seriously limited in terms of deadkeys
<shauno> since I need to type slovak quite often, and romanian less often but still too often, they're handy
<shauno> some odd characters like Å£ are nary to be seen on a UK layout
<diddledan> á¹­
<diddledan> nope
<shauno> but like this, cedilla (like the c in franÃ§ais) is a deadkey
<diddledan> hmm.. how does one do that on ubuntu?
<diddledan> (I'm using ubuntu's mac layout)
<shauno> honestly, that's one of the big reasons I don't use it on the desktop.  after 3 days of trying to smash my face against xkbd I gave up
<diddledan> which isn't the same as real mac layout
<diddledan> Å£
<diddledan> alt_gr+=, t for that
<shauno> but where do you put thorns then?
<diddledan> all the european addons to letters must be on the symbol keys near the enter key
<shauno> ah, I missed the comma
<diddledan> the comma was a separator
<shauno> I thought you meant alt+t, which is Ã¾ on mine
<diddledan> to indicate that alt_gr+= is separate from t
<shauno> but this is why I like apple's take on it.  they're not just all crammed in there.  there's actually some logic
<diddledan> alt+t = Å§
<shauno> cedilla is alt+c.  so for Ã§, it's alt+c, c.  for Å£, it's alt+c, t.
<diddledan> yeah, I like that from apple
<shauno> for ÄÅ¾Å¡, it's alt+v.  again, the same shape as the diacritic
<diddledan> the accents make sense
<shauno> I'm not very good at foreignese.  I need all the help I can get
<diddledan> alt+e for Â´
<diddledan> alt+u for Â¨
<diddledan> apple's way makes so much more sense
<shauno> alt+u is an odd one.  on one hand it makes sense because we've all seen it on Ã¼.  on the other hand, I only ever need it on Ã¶ for slovak
<diddledan> I like that they give you a hint as to what diacritic you've selected before you put the letter with it
<shauno> either way, trying to re-learn them bites.  and trying to rename them bites moar.
<shauno> the best way I can explain it is trying to use an azerty keyboard.  they're all there.  and you can find them easy enough.  but you can't remap your muscle-memory.  typing is measured in expletives-per-minute
<diddledan> I wonder if I won the eurolottery
<HoT|2fC^> Do you guys know if I can copy files from my doom3 disks ? to /usr/local/games/doom3 ?
<HoT|2fC^> there cdrom and I want to install it over SSH
<HoT|2fC^> I have the disks an can put them in the server 1-by-1 so I can ssh it maybe  and copy over files I need to /usr/local/games/doom3/base/
<HoT|2fC^> but via Terminal :) thans.
<diddledan> o_O
<shauno> easy answer is yes, but I've no idea where doom3 expects to find them
<shauno> scp is the tool you're looking for though.  something like scp *wad hostname:/where/you/want/them
<HoT|2fC^> So when my doom 3 disc is in the rom cant I just copy over files I need to dir's ?
<HoT|2fC^> ah nice ok :)
<HoT|2fC^> can I upload them via windows ?
<shauno> (or more likely, just scp *wad hostname:   they'll land in your home folder, since you'll probably want sudo to move them into somewhere else)
<diddledan> nice.. drwho 50th is going to be worldwide simulcast
<shauno> there does exist winscp, but I'm less familiar with it.  the same logic, I can't spoonfeed the UI though
<shauno> it does what it says on the can, I just don't know where the buttons are :)
<HoT|2fC^> ah ok shauno
<shauno> (not trying to be funny; I know it works because I've told customers to use it.  but I've never used it myself)
<diddledan> typical, I had to phone for my pizza because of a "technical incident"
<diddledan> I'm thinking the cleaner plugged the vacuum into the ups feed
<diddledan> shauno: how much do you hate vacuum cleaners in datacentres?! :-p
<shauno> hah, actually, our biggest problem with that is an american "big box store"
<shauno> they have one unit in each store, but something like 7,000 stores
<shauno> and obviously retail staff, not tech staff
<shauno> so that's always our first step with them.  go check all the orange outlets, then visit the front panel and tell me what it says
<diddledan> it invariably says "overload", right? :-p
<shauno> heh, yeah.  bypass :/
<diddledan> or "you knackered my batteries"
<shauno> (that shouldn't cause issues, just feed the load utility input.  but if you just get a call for "it's beeping", that's what they've done)
<shauno> and it's not the vacuum.  it's that big whirly gizmo they use to buff the floors
<diddledan> I've got my own ups now - an APC smart-ups 750
<shauno> (except for one time, where it was actually a deer.  I have a video of that somewhere)
<diddledan> those whirly things are evil
<diddledan> a deer?!
<diddledan> lmao
<shauno> yes.  a deer.  entered the store, ran around like it lost its mind, and then faceplanted a 20k UPS
<diddledan> eejit
<shauno> it actually wrote off the frame, and carried on running
<shauno> (the deer running, not the UPS)
<diddledan> they're pretty strong creatures
<shauno> the UPS was actually fine though.  it just needed a new chassis.  which is a baddie, since the backplane isn't a module, it's part of the frame
<shauno> I'm actually suprised how well the big ones do.  I came across one in new orleans, with a note against it to say it was banned from all service agreements and warranty repairs.  because it'd been completely submerged during katrina
<diddledan> still working?
<shauno> they're still using it, we just can't honour a warranty on that
<diddledan> lmao
<diddledan> impressive
<shauno> poor dominos guy.  "I'm at number 3.  where's number 2?"  welcome to Ireland, man
<diddledan> ouch
<diddledan> poor guy
<diddledan> so.. where _is_ number 2 compared to 3?
<shauno> I hated that on my last street.  there was four different number 5's
<diddledan> wtf
<shauno> it's a little culdesac off the main road
<shauno> 2 is actually on the main road :)
<diddledan> that makes as much sense as sharknado
<shauno> the last place, they had a thing for knocking down houses that had big gardens, and seeing how many more houses they could fit in the garden
<shauno> so you'd have # (name of development), name of street
<diddledan> *ding* twice in one day, totally scored on the irrelevant reference count!
<shauno> so we had 5, name of street.  5, suncourt, name of street.  5 aisling court, name of street, and one or two more
<diddledan> that's nucking futs
<diddledan> though it's the kind of thing that britain is doing now, too
<shauno> it wouldn't be so bad, but their system that tries to match us against an post's db likes to junk 'spare' words
<shauno> so "5 suncourt, name of street" would be labelled on the box as "5, name of street".  and then the poor chap has to phone me
<diddledan> tech. who'd trust it
<shauno> this is why we need postcodes
<shauno> (last I heard, they're planned for 2017)
<diddledan> y'all don't have postcodes?
<shauno> dublin has postcodes
<diddledan> there's a lot of ireland that isn't dublin
<shauno> indeed
<shauno> on that one, my pet peeve.  ryanair's website demands a postcode.  an irish company.  demands a postcode.
<diddledan> lmao
<diddledan> htf did they manage to duck that one up?!
<shauno> ryanair is like murphy's law - with wings
<diddledan> http://i2.wp.com/www.geeksaresexy.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/chair.jpg?resize=600%2C857
<diddledan> random meme
<diddledan> there's a reason murphy's law was named after an irishman, I guess :-)
<shauno> reminds me of my roomba getting stuck under my rack :/
<shauno> oh, and on the UPS topic since you went there.  I no longer do tech support \o/
<diddledan> oooh
<shauno> there was some fantastic catty infighting when someone told the US that if they wanted us to keep covering their weekends, they needed to be introduced to our budget.  but the end result, I support network integration for project managers & field techs, but no more end-user support for north america
<shauno> which is just amazing.  end-user support needs a special breed.  and I ain't it
<shauno> I have various short-circuits between my brain and my mouth.  I once told a customer "don't worry, I'm sure your mother still loves you"
<diddledan> heh, I'll bet they loved that one
<popey> moo
<AlanBell> o/ popey
<diddledan> allo popey
<AlanBell> edge thing is going rather well still isn't it
<shauno> I had a customer big-red-button.  I was trying to explain to him that it had only affected that room, we showed 19 out of 20 green.   my mouth picked up the ball and just ... ran with it
<popey> AlanBell: yeah, enjoying having the indicator on my desktop
<diddledan> I wonder what the official response will be if it fails to reach 32m
<shauno> the page says they'll concentrate on other handsets if it doesn't get there.  so I imagine just that, padded out with some "we had to try" stuff
<AlanBell> diddledan: I imagine they will talk a lot about all the crowdfunding records that were broken (especially if it tops out over $11M which looks reasonably likely)
<HoT|2fC^> mmm when I use WinSCP, and connect ok... and when I find the dir's I want to copy files to I get this message, "scp: /usr/local/games/doom3/base/pak000.pk4: Permission denied"
<AlanBell> and they will have plausibly good data on what price the market will bear for a high end configuration ($600 seems popular, $700 is a bit of a struggle)
<AlanBell> and hopefully they will be compiling a list of categories of people who were unable to take part in that sales method
<shauno> HoT|2fC^: most likely you'll want to copy them to your home folder, and then ssh in and move them to the right place
<HoT|2fC^> shauno, ouch sounds painful :o
<shauno> HoT|2fC^: chances are your normal user doesn't have write-access to /usr/local, so you'll need an intermediary step so you can use sudo mv later
<popey> \o/ boarding
<popey> diddledan: official response is we don't make the device
<AlanBell> have a good flight
<HoT|2fC^> popey, have a gooden popes!
<HoT|2fC^> shauno, ah ok I see now :) I am copying to /home/doom3/ now :)
<HoT|2fC^> so how do I get write-access to /usr/local?
<AlanBell> I expect it will be quite encouraging stuff for someone else to repurpose a device if it doesn't quite get there
<diddledan> long answer is you don't, short answer is sudo - ironically the long answer is the one you should be listening to
<ali1234> for <40k sales?
<diddledan> aparently it's sysadmin day?
<ali1234> the lumia line has sold several million and it is still considered a failure
<AlanBell> there are oodles of android handsets out there, with varying sales volumes
<ali1234> i doubt there are any with such low volume
<shauno> it wouldn't be crazy for someone to pick it up as a differentiator though
<ali1234> in fact this is probably the first time someone has attempted to sell such a small number of devices
<ali1234> mobiles anyway
<AlanBell> well if you are aiming to sell a small number of devices, indiegogo is the way I would do that to limit the market as much as possible!
<ali1234> yeah. the trouble is it won't "prove" anything
<shauno> especially in the android market where the middle-ground is awefully same-ish.  if it gives someone a tick-box they can hit that no-one else does, they might tick it just to have something new to claim
<ali1234> what does it really do that nobody else does, except for the built in desktop stuff, which has already been proven to be something most consumers don't want?
<AlanBell> if someone has an android board developed, that they can pump out there as a PR thing to gain some coverage, perhaps in the angular case, perhaps in whatever it is in, they might do it
<shauno> well they could run with ubuntu out of the box.  that'd be something you can't already buy on the highstreet
<AlanBell> now this http://shop.geeksphone.com/en/phones/8-peak.html tempts me
<ali1234> "it runs ubuntu!" isn't a feature that many people care about
<ali1234> what does this ubuntu thing allow me to do?
<diddledan> which is a shame
<shauno> I'm not sure it has to be.  most people don't care about fingerprint readers.  it still gets bolted on there so they can add another bullet point
<diddledan> I don't get the mozilla concept at all
<diddledan> it's a browser, and that's all it is. apple tried that and failed
<diddledan> I'm not sure the world has moved on from that point very far yet
<ali1234> oh it has, massively
<shauno> chrome tried it and are still building on it
<diddledan> everyone's about "what apps can I install"
<AlanBell> with the mozilla thing, HTML 5 apps are native. There is no QML/Dalvik/C#/objective C stuff
<ali1234> that's why sailfish will have android compat
<ali1234> HTML5 can never be native
<HoT|2fC^> Now I have copied files to my /home//dir/xx
<ali1234> until someone finds a way to compile it to machine code
<HoT|2fC^> how do I move them via ssh? to /usr/local/games/doom3
<diddledan> ali1234: that's my point
<diddledan> ali1234: I meant the world hasn't moved on from the "browser doesn't work" point
<ali1234> and QML isn't really that different to HTML5 either. they just have a different set of widgets that you can use
<AlanBell> HoT|2fC^: if it is a single user computer you could chown that directory to yourself if you want to write to it a lot
<AlanBell> ali1234: yeah, but I can't serve that up from a server
<ali1234> actually you can
<ali1234> there is even a wrapper that will serve QML apps to any HTML5 browser
<ali1234> there's one of those for Gtk too actually
<AlanBell> interesting
<ali1234> and horrifying
<diddledan> so qml is the new "what mozilla did"
<diddledan> I can't think what they called the mozilla thing
<AlanBell> the return of XUL
<ali1234> everything has so many layers of abstraction that there is almost no differentiation any more
<diddledan> xul
<diddledan> yeah
<diddledan>  that's it
 * AlanBell has a big fat book about xul
<shauno> that's pretty much it, no?  if firefox is the OS, then a firefox addon is native?
<ali1234> you can't even put a window on the screen without invoking 3 layers of runtime translation
<ali1234> firefox addons are written in javascript
<diddledan> shauno: not quite, becuase the firefox addon is written in js
<ali1234> a plugin would be native though
<diddledan> shauno: js doesn't compile down to native code
<diddledan> I don't believe the firefox os does plugins tho?
<ali1234> probably not
<diddledan> lol @ http://shop.geeksphone.com/en/4-accessories
<diddledan> "wonderful accessories for your device"... "there are no products in this category"
<AlanBell> yup, it is early stuff, that is kind of a dev phone outlet
<HoT|2fC^> im to confused :(
<HoT|2fC^> I have files in /home/username/doom3/ and want to copy all 5 files to /usr/local/games/doom3/
<HoT|2fC^> How can I do this? with commands I tried and it says no permission
 * AlanBell is very tempted, they even appear to know the tax status of what they are selling which is more than Ubuntu/Indiegogo do
<diddledan> AlanBell: lol
<diddledan> what kind of schedule are geeksphone running for the peak+?
<AlanBell> HoT|2fC^: you don't have permission. You need to use sudo to do the copy, or use sudo to change the owner
<AlanBell> diddledan: they sold out of the peak, peak+ is September
<HoT|2fC^> I did sudo and nothing happens I just get _ blink
<HoT|2fC^> How do I change the owner using sudo?
<AlanBell> what is your username HoT|2fC^?
<diddledan> it's actually pretty well specced for such a cheap phoen
<ali1234> geeksphone is so unlikely to succeed it's not even worth making snarky comments about it
<HoT|2fC^> AlanBell, username
 * AlanBell guesses it is "martin"
<diddledan> snapdragon s4 1.2GHz*2 is impressive at that price
<HoT|2fC^> AlanBell, yeah :o
<AlanBell> so sudo chown -R martin: /usr/local/games/doom3
<AlanBell> that will change the owner (and group) of that folder and everything below it to yourself
<ali1234> the only two you should consider buying are sailfish (because it's made by people who know what they are doing) and ubuphone (because they have the sheer bloody-mindedness to carry on no matter what)
<diddledan> I don't know sailfish
<AlanBell> that means it will have the same permissions as your home directory has, it is yours to play with
<HoT|2fC^> thanks AlanBell :)
<AlanBell> geeksphone is not that much more than an official development phone for firefoxOS
<ali1234> yeah... you shouldn't really consider firefoxOS...
<ali1234> HTML has been a bloated, slow, poorly designed collection of hacks and workarounds since it was invented
<AlanBell> true
<ali1234> and everything thy bolt on just makes it worse
<AlanBell> trueish
<diddledan> how many names has sailfish gone through to get to sailfish?!
<diddledan> maemo, moblin, meego
<diddledan> and now sailfish
<ali1234> maemo and moblin were two totally different thing which merged to become meego
<ali1234> meego then became tizen
<diddledan> forgot about tizen
<ali1234> sailfish uses mer which is a fork of meego
<ali1234> well, basically meego split into the community (mer) and the linux foundation (tizen)
<ali1234> and then nokia left entirely and fired all their staff who formed sailfish
<AlanBell> so that is 6 names that nobody outside the industry has ever heard of
<ali1234> yeah
<ali1234> but since nobody has heard of them it doesn't matter if there is 1 or 100
<diddledan> I don't get the difference between mer and nemo
<AlanBell> so, can I buy a handset with sailfish?
<AlanBell> oh, and jolla, that is 7 names nobody has heard of
<diddledan> AlanBell: then there's plasma active (kde?) and cordia and seadot
<diddledan> in addition to nemo and mer
<diddledan> and sailfish
<AlanBell> wow
<ali1234> no
<ali1234> all of those run on top of mer
<ali1234> jolla is the name of the company that makes sailfish
<diddledan> see, it doesn't even make sense to us technophiles
<HoT|2fC^> wow my first dedicated server now up and running on Doom3 !! first ever Enterprise one tho, it's always been on my PC :D
<HoT|2fC^> Awesome guys, thanks a bunch.
<AlanBell> huh, UK based in part, at least the mer thing has UK contact details
<diddledan> doom 3 running on a server?!
 * HoT|2fC^ off to play some Doom
<diddledan> why?
<ali1234> mer has uk contact details? that's news to me
<HoT|2fC^> diddledan, Thats my hole point in doing this server \o/
<HoT|2fC^> To host games.
<ali1234> anyway the mer lead developer works for jolla now
<AlanBell> http://www.merproject.org/about.html
<ali1234> ah yeah lbt is a brit
<diddledan> that's brave, listing a mobile phone number is asking for an aussie to phone at midday
<ali1234> anyway, sailfish is like unity, mer is like ubuntu, cordia, nemo, seadot are like Xubuntu, Kubuntu etc
<AlanBell> aussies are surfing at midday
<diddledan> good point
<diddledan> maybe when they get off their high boards
<diddledan> or should that be get off their high white horses
<ali1234> oh and the other thing of course is that libhybris, which enables ubuntu-touch at all, was developed originally by the mer project
<ali1234> i think firefoxOS uses it too
<HoT|2fC^> mmm dunno if anyone knows why when I close PuTTY it closes my doom 3 game server?
<AlanBell> heh, because your ssh connection is the parent process
<AlanBell> easy way is to use byobu, that gives you a persistent shell
<AlanBell> so log in as normal, type byobu
<AlanBell> then run your server, you can then break the connection, log in again, type byobu and it will reconnect you to the window you were on, with your server still running
<HoT|2fC^> on windows? :o
<HoT|2fC^> I do this in SSH AlanBell
<AlanBell> yeah, byobu runs on the server side
<diddledan> I'm still unclear as to what "game server" is referring in this case
<AlanBell> diddledan: it is a central process that tracks the xy coordinates of each player
<AlanBell> and serves out the map to the game clients
<diddledan> AlanBell: yes, usually you'd be right, but I'm thinking not in this instance
<diddledan> mostly because the cd/dvd has been copied to /usr/local/games/doom3
<AlanBell> isn't that just copying the map there? presume that has to be on the server
<diddledan> maybe
<HoT|2fC^> mmm
<diddledan> as I say, I'm unclear
<AlanBell> or do all the clients have the map and the server just bounces coordinates of players and bullets?
<HoT|2fC^> Thats why its saved yes to /usr/local/games/doom3
<AlanBell> !byobu
<HoT|2fC^> lol !byobu
<AlanBell> wake up bot
<diddledan> what does byobu actually stand for, if anything?
<AlanBell> !screen
<lubotu3> screen is a window manager for terminal sessions, also useful over SSH. The 'byobu' package provides very useful additional utilities. See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Screen
<AlanBell> diddledan: it is a japanese room divider
<diddledan> bring your own blinking updates
<AlanBell> or a screen :)
<diddledan> aah
<AlanBell> http://int.kateigaho.com/mar04/images/antique-byobu.jpg
<diddledan> nice!
<diddledan> I'm failing to find the scrollback keys for a byobu sub-window
<AlanBell> page up/down
<HoT|2fC^> damn I get nothing but colors now when I type byobu
<HoT|2fC^> :o
<AlanBell> oh, sorry, that is for irssi in byobu
<AlanBell> F7 gets you to scrollback mode
<diddledan> aha, thankyou
<AlanBell> HoT|2fC^: you should get some colourful numbers and stuff in the bottom right
<diddledan> wow, it saves a TON of scrollback
<HoT|2fC^> yeah I do AlanBell
<AlanBell> ok, and you have a $ prompt as well
<HoT|2fC^> But hows this going to keep my server on? if I shutdown my PC now it closes PuTTY and my server then goes down...
<HoT|2fC^> I want it on 24/7
<AlanBell> type something at that $ prompt
<AlanBell> like "hello I am here"
<AlanBell> then close putty
<AlanBell> then open putty and log on again
<AlanBell> and type byobu
<AlanBell> you should see the text you typed before
<AlanBell> oh, I appear to be in a timezone where it is 01:16, I should go to sleep.
<AlanBell> night all o/
<diddledan> ok, so I'm running byobu locally - have been since yesterday when I discovered it. I'm wondering what would happen if I wanted to run byobu on a remote system too
<diddledan> nn AlanBell
<diddledan> I guess you're in mainland europe
<HoT|2fC^> nn mate thanks for help!
<HoT|2fC^> so will this stop my dedicated game server from shutting down ??
<ali1234> it will only stop it shutting down when you log out
<ali1234> it won't automatically restart it if it crashes so it is probably not what you want
<ali1234> what you want instead is an upstart script
<ali1234> that is rather complicated though
<HoT|2fC^> yeah I know :(
<HoT|2fC^> I dont get how when its loaded an I close puTTY it shuts the server down :(
<HoT|2fC^> must be away of keeping it on while I turn off SSH
<ali1234> yeah
<ali1234> there is
<ali1234> alanbell told you it
<ali1234> but this is not a good way to run a server
<HoT|2fC^> I see
<HoT|2fC^> using this byobu?
<ali1234> yes
<HoT|2fC^> so id open another puTTY? login then type byobu
<HoT|2fC^> an leave that open ?
<ali1234> no, you can close it
<HoT|2fC^> so what about the console of the game server?
<ali1234> it will be inside byobu
<ali1234> when you run it again you will see it
<HoT|2fC^> ok
<HoT|2fC^> so if I run byobu, close the server puTTY console down > log out...
<HoT|2fC^> it will be on still? then I just close byobu an its still up an not disconnecing my players?
<diddledan> has anybody tried googling "scotland's national animal" lately?
<diddledan> apparently it's a unicorn
<diddledan> you'd expect it to be a deer, or a haggis
<shauno> you can't take photos of haggis.  it's against the rules
<ali1234> wow, i just learned that a jackalope is not a real animal :S
<diddledan> you mean the J series was illegal?!
<diddledan> the rules stipulate that only real but obscure animals be used
 * HoT|2fC^ is so confused on how to keep a processe up and running once closing SSH (PuTTY)
<ali1234> it's perfectly natural
<Azelphur> HoT|2fC^: it's pretty easy, you need to use screen
<Azelphur> ever heard of it?
<Azelphur> (well, you don't /need/ to use screen, there are other ways, this is one of many)
<diddledan> Azelphur: he's been advised byobu
<Azelphur> oh
<ali1234> Azelphur: you don't run your server in screen do you? please tell me you don't...
<Azelphur> I haven't ever used byobu in all honesty, I've always been a screen person
<Azelphur> ali1234: srcds? yes why not?
<Azelphur> that's what 99.9% of the planet does
<ali1234> :(
<Azelphur> how would you do it?
<ali1234> i would write an upstart script
<Azelphur> ali1234: how would you replace screen -X stuff?
<ali1234> it would log to a file
<Azelphur> that ... doesn't replace screen -X stuff
<ali1234> what does screen -X do again?
<Azelphur> screen -X stuff (stuff is actually the command) it "stuffs" stuff into stdin
<Azelphur> so I can send commands to the server
<ali1234> those things have an interactive command line?
<Azelphur> yup
#ubuntu-uk 2013-07-27
<ali1234> madness
<Azelphur> xD
<Azelphur> there's actually no way to run it without the interactive command line
<Azelphur> (most game servers have an internactive command line, too)
<Azelphur> am I forgiven for using screen now? :P
<ali1234> i suppose
<Azelphur> woo \o/
<ali1234> it's still horrible though
<Azelphur> ali1234: I never said the game servers were written well ;)
<Azelphur> ali1234: if you want some real cringe, you know minecraft servers use like 4GB of RAM, right?
<ali1234> sure, so what?
<Azelphur> so...terrible
<ali1234> minecraft is going to be memory hungry by it's nature
<Azelphur> ali1234: someone rewrote the entire minecraft server in python using twisted
<Azelphur> it used like, <100MB
<ali1234> not when they loaded the level it didn't
<Azelphur> yes, it did.
<ali1234> i don't belieeeeeeeve it
<Azelphur> I ran it, it was cool
<Azelphur> I was hoping it'd take over.
<ali1234> was that minetest?
<HoT|2fC^> so I have byobu my server is on now, how do I keep it on when I close an terminate the putty
<Azelphur> ali1234: no, it was called bravo, it's an actual rewrite
<ali1234> minetest was a rewrite
<ali1234> in C++ though i think
<Azelphur> like, you could connect using the standard minecraft client
<ali1234> oh, nice
<Azelphur> the idea was seamless replacement of the server, twisted async processing for everything, distributed chunk processing, run your game server in the cloud
<Azelphur> quite possibly the most awesome code I've ever seen.
<HoT|2fC^> Azelphur, me ?
<Azelphur> HoT|2fC^: sorry, we're on a different subject, I dunno how to use byobu so can't be much help on that
<HoT|2fC^> I dont host srcds, or anything like minecraft.
<HoT|2fC^> :( ok ok
<Azelphur> I could help with screen, but I think ali1234 is helping you with byobu :)
<ali1234> doom3 is pretty close to srcd
<ali1234> i don't know byobu either, only screen
<ali1234> but basically you run byobu
<ali1234> then you run doom3
<ali1234> then you close putty
<ali1234> that's it
<Azelphur> ah, might as well use screen then
<ali1234> byobu used to be screen
<ali1234> now it is tmux
<ali1234> they are virtually the same thing to start with
<HoT|2fC^> ah I seee ok ok
<Azelphur> HoT|2fC^: screen keeps processes open inside "screens", so you can come back to them later
<HoT|2fC^> so its that simple ?
<ali1234> and byobu is as different again anyway
<Azelphur> HoT|2fC^: just for the sake of argument, if you're running minecraft, you'd do something like
<ali1234> yes, it is that simple
<Azelphur> screen -S minecraft java -jar minecraft.jar
<HoT|2fC^> ok I will try now :)
<HoT|2fC^> :o
<HoT|2fC^> Azelphur do I need to type that?
<Azelphur> which is, create a screen called "minecraft", and inside it run "java -jar minecraft.jar"
<Azelphur> HoT|2fC^: no, you need to read what I'm saying and try to understand it :)
<HoT|2fC^> ok :)
<ali1234> Azelphur: don't you wwant to run it in detatched mode?
<Azelphur> ali1234: we'll get to detaching.
<ali1234> haha
<Azelphur> he's struggling, information overload and all that.
<Azelphur> :)
<ali1234> carry on
<HoT|2fC^> :}
<Azelphur> HoT|2fC^: what server are you running?
<Azelphur> ali1234: I just looked at the bravo website, they are back zomgwtfbbq http://bravoserver.org/
<HoT|2fC^> Azelphur, as in OS?
<Azelphur> ali1234: and they are all like hey, we made it 60 times faster, because, we're awesome.
<HoT|2fC^> Azelphur, I run Ubuntu server 12.04.2 LTS and currently hosting Doom3 dedicated.
<Azelphur> HoT|2fC^: ah, so doom3 is what you're running
<HoT|2fC^> 1.3.1
<Azelphur> how do you usually start your doom3 server?
<Azelphur> I mean, the command
<HoT|2fC^> I have to do cd /usr/local/games/doom3
<HoT|2fC^> ./doom3-dedicated +set fs_game base +exec server.cfg
<Azelphur> ok
<HoT|2fC^> and it starts! but if I close it..
<HoT|2fC^> it goes :(
<Azelphur> so lets run that inside screen
<HoT|2fC^> ok can I do that now its open already?
<Azelphur> screen -S doom3 ./doom3-dedicated +set fs_game base +exec server.cfg
<HoT|2fC^> I have 4 players on
<HoT|2fC^> ah ok I see
<Azelphur> creates a screen called "doom3" and runs the server in it
<HoT|2fC^> lets try :)
<Azelphur> HoT|2fC^: no, you can't, It's kinda difficult to do it with an already running process.
<HoT|2fC^> ok I will tell them to get lost lol
<Azelphur> haha
<HoT|2fC^> an tell them come back :D
<HoT|2fC^> they on last game now so should be ok I will wait :)
<Azelphur> righto
<Azelphur> HoT|2fC^: the rest of it is that with a process running in screen, you can just close the terminal and it'll stay running
<Azelphur> if you ssh back in and want to go back to your doom3 server
<Azelphur> you can just go back to your doom3 screen you created with screen -r doom3
<HoT|2fC^> so I just type screen -r doom3
<Azelphur> and, if you want to exit out of a screen back to the command line, hold ctrl, press a then d, release ctrl
<Azelphur> screen can do lots of stuff, but that's the 3 minute crash course :P
<HoT|2fC^> nice :) thanks man :D
<HoT|2fC^> would I not need to do cd /usr/local/games/doom3 then
<HoT|2fC^> as the screens remembered it
<ali1234> so the thing about minecraft memory usage is that each chunk is 16x16x256 = 65536 blocks. each block has at least 2 bytes of data associated with it (type and damage) so that's 128K per chunk. it loads several thousand chunks on a server with more than one player
<Azelphur> HoT|2fC^: you only need to be in that directory to start the server :)
<HoT|2fC^> ok :)
<ali1234> the lower bound for 1 player is something like 256mb, and that's a massively conservative estimate
<Azelphur> ali1234: yea, bravo was sensible, it loaded chunks in a circle rather than a square
<ali1234> that makes almost no difference at all :P
<Azelphur> lies?
<Azelphur> you're loading significantly less chunks
<ali1234> difference between area of a circle and area of a square?
<Azelphur> ali1234: when the circle fits inside the square, yes.
<diddledan> plus I'd expect sphere rather than cube which saves even more
<diddledan> more than cube vs cylindar
<Azelphur> diddledan: nah, chunks are 16x16x256 so no spheres.
<ali1234> it's pi*r^2 vs 2^2*r^2
<diddledan> aww
<ali1234> in other words pi/4
<Azelphur> but yea, long story short, bravo was pretty crazy
<ali1234> so you save less than 1/4 memory using a circle instead of a square
 * Azelphur shrugs
<ali1234> using a sphere is impractical if, say, you fall down a hole
<ali1234> it couldn't load the chunks fast enough
<diddledan> good point
<Azelphur> yea
<ali1234> it would be a far better optimization though
<Azelphur> you get this behaviour with jetpack mods
<Azelphur> you just fly through nothing as the world loads behind you
<diddledan> lol
<ali1234> you get that in second life too :)
<ali1234> or at least i always did
<Azelphur> although, I remember bravo fixed that too
<Azelphur> it'd load the chunks in your view range first.
<Azelphur> ;)
<ali1234> yeah i remember they tried to implement that in minecraft about 3 times
<Azelphur> by view range I mean field of view.
<ali1234> i don't know if they ever made it work properly
<Azelphur> I loved the distributed nature of it though
<ali1234> minecraft is not a brilliant example of well designed code
<Azelphur> 1000 people on a minecraft server would be epic
<ali1234> but it's not terrible bad either
<ali1234> as games go
<ali1234> and considering what it has to do
<Azelphur> hehe
<ali1234> what about that starforge alpha?
<HoT|2fC^> ahh Azelphur it worked! so now I have left the SSH (Server) an its online with players still so there happy :)
<diddledan> iphone has loads of imitation minecraft-style apps now
<Azelphur> HoT|2fC^: yw :)
<Azelphur> ali1234: dunno :P
<ali1234> starforge has... not blocky grahics though
<HoT|2fC^> so to SSH back to that screen I do the following, screen -r doom3
<ali1234> like hills are actually smoothed
<ali1234> but you can still dig them up
<HoT|2fC^> wow I screened it back in thats awesome Azelphur :D
<HoT|2fC^> I would like it if I could have my server spawn/startup on system boot!
<diddledan> you can cheat that kind of smoothness - make the smoothing entirely client-side but still use cubic blocks server-side
<ali1234> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=pXWEzPULjms&t=293
<Azelphur> HoT|2fC^: the (ugly) way to do that is with cron
<Azelphur> ali1234: will probably chastise me for this
<Azelphur> type crontab -e and add this line
<HoT|2fC^> Azelphur: is that hard to do ?
<HoT|2fC^> ok
<Azelphur> @reboot cd /usr/local/games/doom3 && screen -d -S doom3 ./doom3-dedicated +set fs_game base +exec server.cfg
<Azelphur> should do it
<Azelphur> I'm a good sysadmin, honest :<
<ali1234> i keep seeing that lately
<ali1234> i didn't even know cron could do that
<HoT|2fC^> nice one Azelphur :D
<HoT|2fC^> I entered that in the line an hit enter... then Ctrl + Z ?
<HoT|2fC^> or X
<HoT|2fC^> one of the 2
<Azelphur> ctrl + x to save and exit in nano, assuming you're using nano.
<HoT|2fC^> So it should boot at start up? an if I do screen -d doom3 it will work
<Azelphur> ali1234: yea, it's handy :)
<Azelphur> HoT|2fC^: screen -r doom3, but yea.
<HoT|2fC^> yeah -r sorry :)
<Azelphur> -d means detach :)
<HoT|2fC^> nice nice
<HoT|2fC^> -d death :D
<HoT|2fC^> :D
<Azelphur> hehe
<HoT|2fC^> nnnnnnnnn
<HoT|2fC^> Thanks for help!
<diddledan> yawn
<MartijnVdS> Morning everyone!
<MartijnVdS> A good day to stay inside: http://estofex.org/
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<MartijnVdS> morning, brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning MartijnVdS
<brobostigon> 31, today, old bastard now, i am, :)
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: congratifications! :)
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: I'll be 33 in a few months, you can't complain :P
<brobostigon> thank you MartijnVdS :)
<neuro> shurrup, young types
<MartijnVdS> neuro: yes mr grampa sir
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: very true, yes.
 * neuro will be 40 in march :P
<neuro> MartijnVdS: /me prefers grumpy old man tbh
 * neuro is on hold with Yodel
<neuro> bloody delivery guy "attempted delivery" 35 mins ago but no card through the door
<neuro> so if i wasn't proactively checking the tracking, i wouldn't know they've dinged the delivery to monday
<brobostigon> there was a good comedy sketch band, jasper carrott invented, the old farts, very funny.
<MartijnVdS> neuro: I have the delivery guy's phone number, and he has mine. That helps a LOT ;)
<neuro> and this 0800 phone call has cost me a quid so far
<neuro> crap
<neuro> they don't do redeliveries
<neuro> "the delivery man has other parcels he has to deliver today"
<neuro> well woop de doo!
<neuro> and why didn't he leave a card to say he had been?
<neuro> "i don't know, sir"
<neuro> good stuff
<neuro> well that's my day up the spout
<MartijnVdS> wow.. it's starting to get dark already
<brobostigon> clouds, rain clouds. it will rain on my birthday, :(
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: we're going to have an epic thunderstorm here in ~30 minutes
<MartijnVdS> according to the radar
<brobostigon> oh dear, but will be good, clear the moggy air out abit.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: http://buienradar.nl/bliksem-1-uur
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: oh dear, doesnt look very nice.
<MartijnVdS> every yellow "+" is a lightning discharge (either in-cloud or to-ground)
<brobostigon> ah.
<MartijnVdS> getting some beautiful photos of the approaching front :)
<brobostigon> :)
<brobostigon> my dad got me a good card, making a joke on me being moody and comparison to gordon ramsey.
<MartijnVdS> Storm pics! https://plus.google.com/photos/100189567362844794281/albums/5905252629649517761
<dwatkins_> looks pretty epic, MartijnVdS
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins_: it was a bit underwhelming irl
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins_: just a lot of rain and 3 thunderclaps
<dwatkins_> aw shame, we had thunder and lightning on Tuesday here in Edinburgh
<dwatkins> strange, I'm banned on #openbsd despite not doing anything
<dwatkins> perhaps because of that
<songtao> hi everyone, I just setup openvpn access to my office, but it can not solve the cname, only can access it by ip address, I been told I need to add dns to somewhere. my question, how do I find the dns server ip, and where I add to ? 'resolve.conf' file ?
<MartijnVdS> songtao: the OpenVPN server van push that, and if it does, it should work automatically
<MartijnVdS> songtao: as long as you're using the "networkmanager openvpn plugin" (network-manager-openvpn-gnome)
<MartijnVdS> songtao: you can also add extra DNS servers/search domains on the "IPv4 settings" page
<songtao> MartijnVds,  thanks for your reply, I just download the client.ovpn file. it all be configed, I think
<MartijnVdS> (for that specific VPN connection)
<MartijnVdS> songtao: if you're using the Ubuntu desktop, you shuold consider using that plugin
<MartijnVdS> songtao: as it integrates a lot better with the rest of the system :)
<songtao> martinVds, thanks, I will try it now
<MartijnVdS> songtao: you'll have to read client.ovpn and put the settings in manually, unfortunately.. but that's not very hard (hardest bit is copying the certificates to their own files)
<MartijnVdS> oh wait
<MartijnVdS> apparently, you can import
<MartijnVdS> ttp://askubuntu.com/questions/187511/how-can-i-use-a-ovpn-file-with-network-manager
<songtao> ha, already installed
<MartijnVdS> songtao: http://askubuntu.com/questions/187511/how-can-i-use-a-ovpn-file-with-network-manager explains everything you need to know
<songtao> thank you so much, the link is exactly I am looking for
<brobostigon> oh dear, got new phone today, first thing i installed, ingress, i must be so sad.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: uh oh, green or blue? :)
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: blue.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: same as my co-workers :)
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: :)
 * MartijnVdS never played it
<brobostigon> ah.
<brobostigon> i fully intend to grab the portal over my favorite pub, and link it to my other one.
<brobostigon> make a bigger control field.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: one of my co-workers goes for nightly bike-rides through his town to level up 8-)
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: ah. :)
<brobostigon> in android 4.2, is there a way to completly kill all background data, not just auto-aync and that stuff ?
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: Settings -> Data usage -> Menu -> Limit background data
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: that + disabling sync should kill mobile data unless you're actively looking at the screen
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: thank you. :)
<brobostigon> ah
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: which phone did you get?
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: my dad surprised me this morning, with a galaxy nexus, didnt even ask or anything, abit older, but runs modern android fine.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: you can even flash it up to 4.3 if you want
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: yep, :)
 * MartijnVdS has one too
<brobostigon> ah.
<brobostigon> i wasnt even really planning a new phone, so, it is ok with me, and a good upgrade up from my htc dream, :)
<MartijnVdS> Yeah, that's a good upgrade :)
<MartijnVdS> it should feel a lot snappier too
<brobostigon> yep :)
<brobostigon> oh yes. by a million miles.
<brobostigon> i wouldnt have minded a nexus4, but a galaxy nexus is all good with me.
<mungbean> hmm. need to remember how to erase parts of a gimp layer to reveal the layer below
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: using a mask
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: Shift+Q
<MartijnVdS> (bottom left of the image -> QuickMask)
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: paint it with the "invisible" colour
<mungbean> so i have 4 layers
<mungbean> my boy jumping on the sofa
<mungbean> i decide which is the "top layer"
<MartijnVdS> go to layers -> add alpha channel?
<mungbean> on every layer?
<MartijnVdS> then use the eraser tool?
<MartijnVdS> on every layer you want to be (partially) transparent
<mungbean> ok cheers
<mungbean> done this before, but with gimp i forget between efforts
<mungbean> do i have to merge the layers down each time i work on a new layer?
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: no, you can just keep it layered
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: actions are done on the currently selected layer(s)
<mungbean> oh yes, thanks muchly
<mungbean> thanks martin, sorted :D
<MartijnVdS> \o/
<mungbean> http://i.imgur.com/HWtO4jd.jpg MartijnVdS <<
<MartijnVdS> Clones!
<MartijnVdS> Attack of the &
<brobostigon> next thing on my list for today, booze up tonight, with friends. :)
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: or quadruplets?
<mungbean> normal life with a toddler
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: ah, slow shutter time? :P
<popey>  Afternoon all!
<MartijnVdS> popey: hellos!
<daftykins> heya
<brobostigon> afternoonings popey
<daftykins> my word these newer laptop BIOS's can be slippery
<daftykins> just managed, i think, to convince one to boot win7 in legacy mode despite having all the markings of a UEFI only beast :)
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: uh.. yay?
<daftykins> yeah, reinstalling a system for a friends gran
<daftykins> Â£249.99 Asus X55C laptop
<daftykins> lets just say legacy mode is easier for me...
<popey> \o/ no jetlag
<MartijnVdS> popey: wow
<popey> managed to get some kip on the plane
<MartijnVdS> that's always useful
<popey> oddly the same person was sat next to me on the way back as on the way out
<MartijnVdS> popey: NSA plant, following you?
<popey> hah, she worked for EMC
<popey> so maybe
<shauno> the shrubbery was the giveaway
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: btw, you can go to the "Data usage" screen and see which app uses/used background data, and disable it specifically for that app
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: if the global setting too, well, global :)
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: data isnt the issue, i have no fup unlimited data, bettery usage was more my worry.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: ah.. that's best on wifi actually (weird but true)
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: yep, i have seen various things myself on that one.
<brobostigon> so just turning off auto-sync will provide sufficant battery saving ?
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: I have auto-sync on, and I can go just over a day with a single charge
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: but I never do, because I charge it almost everywhere (home, car, office)
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: wow, ok, thats a huge improvemnt over 2.3 on my dream.
<MartijnVdS> If I set it to airplane mode before going to sleep, I can make it 2 "waking" days
<brobostigon> thats pretty good.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: I also have this for longer trips: http://www.voltaicsystems.com/fuse4w.shtml
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: but usually I go to hotels, which tend to have proper power :)
<brobostigon> nice bit of kit, :)
<MartijnVdS> it's a solar-powered battery ;)
<brobostigon> :)
<MartijnVdS> they also have larger ones to charge laptops
<brobostigon> cool.
<mungbean> edge funding has stalled now > 700 :(
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: it's also the weekend
<brobostigon> prey installed on new phone, good. much better now.
<MartijnVdS> prey?
<brobostigon> it is tracking software, so if my phone goes missing, i can sms it, and it comes alive, and tells me where it is, and can takes pictures via the cameras and such things.
<MartijnVdS> ah
<brobostigon> it also disables lock screen, so it cant be uncloked and such thing also.
<MartijnVdS> doesn't that need root? and doesn't it eat battery?
<brobostigon> when it runs yes, but not in itself, it is idle, untill i sms it.
<mgdm> Today's fail: discovering, after going outside, that my new shoes fit almost as well on the wrong feet as they do the correct way
<daftykins> XD
<daftykins> good work mgdm
<penguin42> wth do I have a linkedin connect request from a Vicar
<daftykins> so he can judge your every word
<shauno> because you haven't added a procmail rule to make linkedin disappear :)
<penguin42> well, I might be on the lookout, so ...
<MartijnVdS> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0AuG9vig38I
<brobostigon> is there a way of telling android and fixinf which 3g band it uses, which is stronger insted of it contantly searching around ?
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: it automatically picks the stronger one I think
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: it isnt doing that, is is switching between 3g and hsdpa all the time, and isnt staying still.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: that's expected
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: it switches to "H" when there's data traffic, then back to "3G" when it's idle
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: i just did a battery test, and it showed 34% within signal,
<brobostigon> without*
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: in the "About phone" pages (Status) you can see what kind of network it's currently connected to
<brobostigon> yes, hspa.
<MartijnVdS> It switches HSPA+/UMTS for me, and the switching up coincides with data traffic
<brobostigon> hmm,
<MartijnVdS> I think it's a battery thing
<MartijnVdS> HSPA costs more battery to run, but you can send shorter bursts (higher speed)
<brobostigon> i want to stop it from switching, as it is showing 34% without signal. which uses loads of battery,
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: just charge it 100%, then walk around with it disconnected one day, and look in the "Battery" page in the settings
<MartijnVdS> that's the most accurate way of telling what's eating your battery
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: that test will be tonight.
<brobostigon> in mobile network setting, i just noticed a "enable always on mobile data"
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: disabling that disables lots of other things
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: however ownt it solve the problem ?
<MartijnVdS> actually, if it's the top option in the menu, it disables *all* mobile data
<MartijnVdS> so it'll do calls and SMS and wifi, but no 2G/3G data
<brobostigon> data is enabled at the top of that menu.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: believe me, the people writing Android know about battery issues, the defaults are quite good
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: yes, i would agree. however didnt you say, it will switch back when n odata is being used, now wont keeping data on all the time avoid that problem, therefore avoid that time without signal and the resulting battery uage ?
<MartijnVdS> keeping data on is no problem
<brobostigon> so it wont swtich back and forth anymore?
<MartijnVdS> of course it will
<MartijnVdS> if there's data to transfer, it'll scale up
<MartijnVdS> then, when the data is done transfering, it scales back to a less battery-hungry state
<MartijnVdS> like the CPU in a laptop, basically
<brobostigon> ok, thank you MartijnVdS. need to get moving, meeting my friends for birthday beer. :)
<MartijnVdS> if you're encoding a video, it spins up to full speed, if you're just IRCing, it's at minimum speed doing almost nothing
<brobostigon> ok, bye bye,
<MartijnVdS> bye?
<brobostigon> birthday beer with friends.
<brobostigon> 7pm, in half an hour.
<brobostigon> and need to get ready still.
<MartijnVdS> ah, IRL birthday party :)
<brobostigon> yes, :)
<MartijnVdS> Bye!
<brobostigon> bye, o/
<mgdm> happy birthday brobostigon
<Monotoko> what would be writing over 20mb to the HDD per minute, and how do I stop it so I can go back to my work holiday? :( - I don't know if it's possible to expand server partition size?
<MartijnVdS> Monotoko: iotop will tell you
<MartijnVdS> Monotoko: maybe logs?
<MartijnVdS> Monotoko: for some crashing & auto-restarting daemon?
<Monotoko> MartijnVdS, looks like clamav was writing a lot...
<Monotoko> under the freshclam process
<Monotoko> killing that made it stop
<MartijnVdS> Monotoko: that's virus definitions
<Monotoko> (and I've removed old rotated logs to clear up space)
<Monotoko> MartijnVdS, where are those stored? /etc?
<MartijnVdS>  /var somewhere I guess
<MartijnVdS> /var/lib/clamav is my guess
<Monotoko> should probably get /var onto another partition...
<bigcalm> Good evening peeps :)
<MartijnVdS> \o bigcalm
<bigcalm> Why can I never remember how to run an ssh tunnel?
<penguin42> bigcalm: Well, its' -L or -R with a bunch of parameters in some random order
<bigcalm> :D
<shauno> I probably couldn't do it off the top of my head either.  I have the ones I use in my .ssh/config, and there they stay
<penguin42> on +1 watch out for stuff getting mounted as /media/username/mountpoint rather than /media/mountpoint - it confuses everything but is probably the right thing to do
<bigcalm> Bah
<bigcalm> Even running a ssh tunnel to a server that I know can access PB still causes my ISP to block the site locally
<bigcalm> Unless I'm running the command incorrectly
<shauno> depends what they're blocking where.  if you, eg, send http traffic over a socks proxy at the other end of the ssh tunnel, but dns requests are going straight out of your network as normal, you're trusting them not to interfere with those dns requests
<bigcalm> Ah
<shauno> or it could be something simple like not actually using the socks proxy at the other end of the tunnel :)
<shauno> (if you google "what's my IP", google actually answers now, which is handy and intuitive.  if that answers with your normal address, it'd be a huge red flag)
<bigcalm> I was trying to use the ssh tunnel for 1 specific host and port
 * bigcalm gives up and goes back to sleep
<shauno> there should be other ways to test.  eg, I keep saying socks because that's what I use; my socksd logs connections on the server, so that log would tell me whether I'm even connecting to it or not
<MartijnVdS> http://meteox.com/h.aspx?r=&jaar=-3&soort=loop1uur&lightning=1
<HoT|2fC^> Evening all :) hope all is well.
<HoT|2fC^> I am trying to put files on my Ubuntu Server over WinSCP, but it will not let me copy to /home/username/files/ :(
<HoT|2fC^> what do I need to type to give me write permissions so I can copy file over.
<mgdm> are you logging in as the same user?
<HoT|2fC^> yeah
<HoT|2fC^> on WInSCP?
<mgdm> aye
<mgdm> that's weird
<HoT|2fC^> what is ?
<mgdm> have you made the directory already? Who is it owned by?
<HoT|2fC^> :o
<HoT|2fC^> yeah just made /files/
<HoT|2fC^> mkdir in ser over ssh
<HoT|2fC^> in home/user/
<mgdm> do 'ls -al' in /home/user and paste it, maybe?
<HoT|2fC^> owner is root
<HoT|2fC^> wth
<mgdm> ah, change that - sudo chown -R user:user files
<HoT|2fC^> n1
<HoT|2fC^> mmm says root still weird
<HoT|2fC^> ok sorted
<mgdm> HoT|2fC^: is it behaving now?
<HoT|2fC^> mgdm: yes thanks its working now :)
<HoT|2fC^> I have FTP woooo so I can back up off here now ... just need some SCSI drives for the server! :D
<HoT|2fC^> seen some 146GB ones cheap on ebay and new also with the correct scsi bays ;) by Conpaq
<HoT|2fC^> Compaq*
<mgdm> cool
<shauno> I'm ditching my SAS drives for ssd in the near future
<HoT|2fC^> mgdm, should I use SFTP port forwarding ? instead of just FTP!
<HoT|2fC^> ah nice nice :)
<HoT|2fC^> I want to access ftp any where an to do so id need to port forward my router!
<MartijnVdS> HoT|2fC^: just use passive mode?
<MartijnVdS> sftp uses the ssh protocol
<HoT|2fC^> true
<shauno> if you can get away with using sftp rather than ftp, I would.  it's so much cleaner when it comes to forwarding
<MartijnVdS> You don't want to use FTP, as it's insecure and not encrypted.
<shauno> (besides the obvious advantage of not having cleartext passwords)
<MartijnVdS> which means passwords and data can be sniffed.
<HoT|2fC^> I have on my router now SFTP
<HoT|2fC^> 117?
<HoT|2fC^> 115 port number sorry
<MartijnVdS> HoT|2fC^: What do you want to accomplish?
<MartijnVdS> HoT|2fC^: do you want to upload files to the server?
<HoT|2fC^> MartijnVdS: yes
<MartijnVdS> HoT|2fC^: do you want the server to upload files to somewhere else?
<MartijnVdS> HoT|2fC^: use sftp or scp, port 22 (ssh)
<HoT|2fC^> MartijnVdS: ok :)
<MartijnVdS> HoT|2fC^: for security, also install "fail2ban" which blocks the remote host if authentication fails 5 times
<MartijnVdS> HoT|2fC^: (this blocks password-guessing hack robots)
<shauno> 115 isn't ssh's sftp.  it's another service that's also named sftp, just to make life interesting
<HoT|2fC^> ooo nice
<HoT|2fC^> how do I install that MartijnVdS
<MartijnVdS> HoT|2fC^: apt-get install fail2ban
<HoT|2fC^> nice
<MartijnVdS> HoT|2fC^: remember, installing == apt-get install -- man apt-get:)
<HoT|2fC^> :o
<MartijnVdS> HoT|2fC^: reading manuals == good practice, helps you remember, because you know why things are the way they are :)
<HoT|2fC^> how do I configure now ?
<HoT|2fC^> true :D
<MartijnVdS> HoT|2fC^: the default installation is already configured
<HoT|2fC^> So it bans them perm?
<MartijnVdS> HoT|2fC^: you can tune it with files in /etc/fail2ban -- also read the manpage and /usr/share/doc/fail2ban/*
<MartijnVdS> HoT|2fC^: The documentation explains it all. Please read it?
<HoT|2fC^> for now is it ok :o
<HoT|2fC^> ok
<HoT|2fC^> do I read it via nano?
<HoT|2fC^> damn lol
<MartijnVdS> HoT|2fC^: nah, I'd use "less"
<MartijnVdS> HoT|2fC^: "man" also uses less
<MartijnVdS> HoT|2fC^: and, again: man less ;)
<HoT|2fC^> :}
<HoT|2fC^> how can I get in FTP now outside the network ?
<HoT|2fC^> I have portforwarded ftp
<daftykins> ?
<daftykins> FTP port 21 tends to be the control port only, you typically need to specify a data range of ports (e.g. 1024 to 1030) then forward them too and specify them in your FTP server
<HoT|2fC^> mmm
<HoT|2fC^> I dont get last bit :/
<penguin42> ftp port forwarding is a pain; you're sure you want ftp....
<HoT|2fC^> penguin42, why is it ?
<daftykins> HoT|2fC^: http://slacksite.com/other/ftp.html
<HoT|2fC^> I do yeah, but why would it be a pain :/
<daftykins> because of what i'm telling you, you need to edit your config a lot and add more ports ;D
<daftykins> SFTP/SCP on the other hand would be just one port
<HoT|2fC^> daftykins, wow how many ports I need to open? would I need to custom port opening?
<HoT|2fC^> or use SFTP/SCP/ Etc..
<daftykins> see where i talked about 1024:1030 ?
<daftykins> that's an example.
<daftykins> what are you actually trying to achieve?
<daftykins> just being able to get stuff from home when you're out and about?
<HoT|2fC^> yes daftykins
<HoT|2fC^> music etc
<daftykins> yeah install openssh-server and forward port 22 then - it'll be encrypted then \o/
<HoT|2fC^> what you mean ? I have openssh-server on my server
<HoT|2fC^> and I have port forward 21-22 :D
<HoT|2fC^> under FTP
<daftykins> 21 is FTP, 22 is SSH
<daftykins> so then use an SFTP client instead when you're out and about
<HoT|2fC^> ah I see I have SSH 22 here
<HoT|2fC^> and FTP as 21-22
<daftykins> ...
<HoT|2fC^> ah ok
<daftykins> there's only one 22 available on the internet side of the router :)
<HoT|2fC^> :o
<daftykins> so you can only forward port 22 to *one* destination PC behind your router
<HoT|2fC^> ah I see
<daftykins> so yeah give that a go instead of FTP
<daftykins> FTP's too insecure really for over the interwebs
<GentileBen> So use SFTP!!
<GentileBen> Or just VPN in.
<ali1234> thing is, unix based technologies aren't going to help you much if you're a windows user. not unless you know a great deal about how they both work
<ali1234> better to find some solution that is windows based, if you use windows
<daftykins> http://i.imgur.com/Lht1eSd.png
<daftykins> 1.6GB/sec sequential reads? yes please
<daftykins> er 1.8*
<penguin42> daftykins: Off what?
<daftykins> a friends new work server's 6 x 2TB SAS in RAID6, fronted by a pair of Intel cache SSDs
<penguin42> ok right
<daftykins> :)
<daftykins> ah-har, so THATS why the Windows MSRT keeps running twice on peoples systems
<daftykins> silly Microsoft
<penguin42> ?
<daftykins> during the monthly patch tuesday updates, the Malicious Software Removal Tool is the monthly one that's basically a big fat script to remove malicious software
<daftykins> to try and cull Windows boxes of being part of botnets etc
<daftykins> but for some reason July's ran twice
<daftykins> turns out it ran two different versions
<penguin42> hah I didn't realise they ran a malware remover in the updates
<daftykins> yep :)
<penguin42> frankly it's not a bad move - I mean trying to run a software updater on a system full of malware ain't going to be pretty
<daftykins> indeed
<daftykins> in fact there was that time when a service pack bricked Windows installs that had a specific malware on them
<penguin42> yeh I have sympathy with that
#ubuntu-uk 2013-07-28
<popey> So it turns out I do have jetlag after all
<ali1234> i have permanent jetlag
<ali1234> that's why i'm posting on r/ubuntu at 5am even though i know the fanboys will downvote me to oblivion
<popey> heh
<ali1234> there seems to be some confusion about the edge specs
<popey> oh?
<ali1234> they are roughly in line with what you would expect from a high end smartphone in Q2 2014
<popey> where?
<ali1234> bt for some reason people think that it is massively more powerful
<ali1234> "everywhere"
<ali1234> people are just comparing it to existing phones, ignoring the fact that there will be a new iphone and a new galaxy by then. either that or they think they'll get the thing next month. i dunno
<ali1234> http://betsofbitco.in/item?id=1691
<ali1234> \o/
<ali1234> i was gonna make that, but someone already did it
<MartijnVdS> heh
<popey> hah
 * ali1234 bets everything on red
<popey> gosh my bitcoin is 14 weeks behind
<ali1234> wut
<popey> i like that they tell you in dates now rather than giving you the blockchain number
<popey> in the bitcoin client
<ali1234> you use the gui client?
<ali1234> i have never even seen it
<popey> not often, clearly â»
<ali1234> whoever made the bet, bet for positive outcome
<feiyaoxuan> hello
<popey> bitcoin now 4 weeks behind... takes a while
<popey> 2 hours to do 10 weeks of blockchain
<feiyaoxuan> éé·æ­»äºï¼åä¸ç¥éå äºä»ä¹ï¼æ¡é¢å¨æ²¡æäºï¼å°±å©ä¸å£çº¸ï¼é¼æ£åå¤©æå¥½ï¼è¿ä¸ç¥éååäºï¼å¥½ååunityæå³ï¼éé·ï¼ï¼ï¼ï¼ï¼
<MooDoo> morning all
<MartijnVdS> moo-rning ;)
<MooDoo> anyone else up this time of the day on a sunday lol
<MooDoo> besides you MartijnVdS :)
<MartijnVdS> I've already been on a 10km run
<MooDoo> crazy fool :)
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: nah, sane sleeping schedule ;)
<MooDoo> :)
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: also, I'm playing with https://metacpan.org/module/Dancer
<MooDoo> cool, nice n heavy for a sunday morning ;)
<MartijnVdS> nah nice & light-weight
<MooDoo> something to think about before breakfast
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<ali1234> http://www.mustonscarecrowfestival.com/ nope, the music doesn't make the whole thing any less creepy
<MooDoo> hehe :D
<ali1234> http://www.mustonscarecrowfestival.com/apps/photos/photo?photoid=182671983
<MooDoo> it's just like well dressings, weird country folk ;)
<brobostigon> good morning evevryone,
<MooDoo> morning brobostigon :)
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo :)
<MooDoo> brobostigon: how are you?
<brobostigon> MooDoo: yes, good, had a good birthday yesterday, partied with friends last night, hangover. family stuff for my birthday today. and you?
<MooDoo> brobostigon: i'm ok, at work today, but it's not that stressful at the moment.
<brobostigon> MooDoo: ah. ohwell. ok, thats good.
<MooDoo> :)
<MooDoo> quite in here though
<brobostigon> quiet ?
<MooDoo> yeah sorry not enough coffee yet :D
<brobostigon> :)
<MartijnVdS> lunch o'clock!
<MooDoo> not for me, it's only 11
<brobostigon> morning MartijnVdS
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: it behaved really well, thank you for your advice yesterday.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: np :)
<brobostigon> :)
<HoT|2fC^> neuro: Hey dude :) just to confirm that I do have 4 cores!
<HoT|2fC^> @ 2.80Ghz
<MooDoo> ooo nice
<shauno> I'm going nuts trying to get debian to install :/  anything that can go wrong, has
<MartijnVdS> non-free hardware?
<shauno> that's come up, complains about a missing blob
<shauno> now it's telling me it can't get a dhcp response, despite being booted from PXE  (because I couldn't make a working usb stick ..)
<MartijnVdS> shauno: was the blog for the ehternet driver?
<MartijnVdS> blob
<shauno> starting to suspect that .. off to google the filename it was asking for
<penguin42> yeh the firmware blob would be my guess, pxe is done before it gets there
<shauno> I couldn't make a working ubuntu stick either.  today just isn't my day
<penguin42> shauno: Sometimes the computers are against you
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: s/computers/debian devs/
<shauno> oh I know.  this whole weekend has been one of those times you start to suspect linux is one giant hoax
<MartijnVdS> shauno: it's probably in a .deb in non-free somewhere
<penguin42> shauno: Just set your ntp server back a couple of days and try the day again
<shauno> hah, that's come up too.  I have an appliance with expired ssl certs.  so I have to set my clock before June to login to it
<shauno> so tempted to jsut go back to bed
<penguin42> much safer
<penguin42> can someone tell me what their /etc/modprobe.d/qemu-kvm.conf says ?
<MartijnVdS> cat: /etc/modprobe.d/qemu-kvm.conf: Bestand of map bestaat niet
<penguin42> do you have kvm/qemu installed?
<MartijnVdS> no
<penguin42> ah
<penguin42> right, it looks like it went in recently
<MartijnVdS> what's in it?
 * MartijnVdS is running saucy, considering setting up some vms
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: On saucy it says options kvm_intel nested=1
<MartijnVdS> ah
<MartijnVdS> makes sense
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: However, it's not working for me - the module complains about unknown param even though modinfo shows it and I can see the entry in /sys
<shauno> hm, nested is good to know
<penguin42> nod
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: strÃ¤nge
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: maybe your hardware doesn't like it?
 * penguin42 has run nested on Ubuntu before - I think I've had 3 deep working in the past
 * penguin42 is running 1 point version of kernel behind saucy at the moment, the .6 version doesn't like my USB storage
<MartijnVdS> Ubuntuception
<MartijnVdS> the latest one seems to have problems with my (MTP) phone on USB3 ports
<shauno> nested is a godsend when you need it
<MartijnVdS> or switching beterrn USB3/2 or something
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: What version was that - 3.10.0-4 seems ok for me on usb
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: could be my motherboard/bios misconfiguring bits
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: I've had problems since 3.10
<MartijnVdS> lots of:
<MartijnVdS> [339014.071764] xhci_hcd 0000:00:14.0: Timeout while waiting for stop endpoint command
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: Maybe, I'm just on USB2 though
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: Bug 1205827 is the one that I reported
<lubotu3> bug 1205827 in linux (Ubuntu) "Regression: USB storage broken on 3.10.06-generic" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1205827
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: at least it's not as bad as Win 8 on my old machine
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: which doesn't detect the USB ports on the back 75% of the time, but USB ports on the front work fine :)
<HoT|2fC^> Whos used Webmin?
<HoT|2fC^> I have fallllen in LOVE!
<HoT|2fC^> \o/
<penguin42> HoT|2fC^: I used it a LONG time ago
<MartijnVdS> HoT|2fC^: it's a very scary piece of software, imho
<HoT|2fC^> Pendulum, really? anything better then it maybe more GUI / Graphical side of things?
<penguin42> HoT|2fC^: Be a little careful, it doesn't help you learn what's going on underneath so if something really breaks you can be in trouble
<HoT|2fC^> Pendulum, but I wont mess with alot of things...
<shauno> also be careful not to leave it internet-facing
<HoT|2fC^> shauno, how do you mean?
 * penguin42 takes away HoT|2fC^'s tab complete
<HoT|2fC^> :O
<penguin42> HoT|2fC^: I wouldn't trust it from a security point of view
<penguin42> HoT|2fC^: On an internal network where only you can get to it, fine
<HoT|2fC^> true
<shauno> yeah, exactly
<shauno> we have a VM going where my sole use for webmin is that I can add myself a root account with metasploit
<shauno> granted it's a year or so out of date, but that taught me to distrust webmin
<penguin42> yeh it's been like that for years
<shauno> \o/  I have firmware
<MartijnVdS> \o/
<shauno> I oughta figure out how those pxe menu things work and leave this setup.  handy
<HoT|2fC^> Its ok wont brake anything :)
<penguin42> shauno: Oh they're great - we've had one at work for years
<penguin42> shauno: Be careful however, it's just too easy to netboot a critical box and nuke it....
<shauno> I shouldn't have a problem with that, my dhcp server is normally turned off because it's too damned noisy
<shauno> it takes a pretty conscious decision to turn the mouthbreather on for anything
<shauno> ugh, new problem, it won't let me pick which disk to put grub on.  and its' numbered them backwards
<penguin42> shauno: 'backwards' - that's a matter of interpretation with the bios
<shauno> I'm not sure what it's done to be honest
<shauno> it's showing as /dev/sdb, it's usually sda.  but now it's numbered the usb stick I put the firmware on as sda
<penguin42> shauno: The sd numbering is entirely undeterministic these days
<penguin42> shauno: You shouldn't use the sd naming devices for anything
<shauno> tell the d-i guys that, not me
<penguin42> shauno: Well do they actually use it - as long as they use UUID or labels in the kernel stuff they're ok, and as long as the bios map is figured out OK then grub should work
<shauno> what I mean is the installer never gives you any options for that
<penguin42> ah, I wonder if the ubuntu-server install does it more sanely
<shauno> I mean it creates grub entries to UUIDs.  but when it goes to install grub, it does grub-install /dev/sda
<penguin42> hmm I left the freezer on rapid freeze for too long for this sorbet - I had to cut it with a knife
<shauno> speaking of -server though, I was surprised how many dead links they have on ubuntu.com :/
<penguin42> well that's what hypertext is for - making dead links!
<MartijnVdS> à² _à² 
<RaycisCharles> MartijnVdS, my Dutch friend.
<diddledan> morning
<brobostigon> hi diddledan
<diddledan> ello :-)
<brobostigon> there we go, i cheated, google goggles helped me solve my diabolical sudoku,
<penguin42> textual one?
<brobostigon> textual ?
<penguin42> well why did you need to google for a sudoku?
<brobostigon> penguin42: to help me solve it, it takes a picture of the sudoku grid, and works out the missing numbers.
<penguin42> haha ok, I wrote some prolog to do it some years ago when sodoku's first arrived
<penguin42> brobostigon: http://www.treblig.org/daveG/sudoku_fd.pl
<penguin42> heck - is it that long - 9 years ago!
<brobostigon> :)
<penguin42> brobostigon: That was a christmas/boxing day when they printed the first Sodoku in the Times (or the 1st I'd noticed) and I came down spent an hour or more solving it with pen and ink and spent the rest of the day dusting off my prolog knowledge
<brobostigon> penguin42: ah, interesting project.
<penguin42> brobostigon: Nod, it turns out to be pretty easy - the dumb plain Prolog version was damn slow, the GNU extensions were usably fast; I'm not sure if a better Prolog writer would have been able to do it fast using portable prolog - but I hadn't written any for ~12 years at that point since my 2nd year undergrad prolog lab
<brobostigon> i am not familier with prolog at all.
<penguin42> brobostigon: It's very much a 'state the rule' and let it figure it out language
<brobostigon> ah.
<penguin42> so there I tell it that there are a set of things from 1..9 and they all have to be different and then just apply that to every row/column/square and then give it the constraints and let it figure out a set of values that satisfies those rules
<brobostigon> almost how your own mind works it out, also.
<penguin42> maybe, I suspect the brain takes some shortcuts
<brobostigon> yes.
<penguin42> haha - classic; http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-23482587
 * webpigeon recently got two prolog books of his boss to learn it
<penguin42> webpigeon: I don't know much about it - I mean it's a long time since I formally looked at it, I'd assume newer stuff has happened in the last 20 years
<webpigeon> The books I have are quite old - it's from when she leared it at uni and thought it might be something I'd be intrested it (considering I studied java, c, c++ and friends at uni)
<penguin42> well Uni we did Pascal and asm, but we had one semester courses on other stuff; so a prolog, one on haskell etc
<webpigeon> There were a few other languages in ours but most of the other modules were focused on topics rather than langauges (data structures, computer security, robotics, AI, etc..)
<webpigeon> LUA was just wtf :P
<ali1234> oh boy someone asked slashdot to recommend books about how computers affect society
<ali1234> the answers are hilarious and sad
<MartijnVdS> well it's slashdot
 * penguin42 hasn't really followed the detail of Edge; but is there anything which says which SoC (or family of ) that's being looked at? Also given that Touch is dual licensable has anything said which license Edge will be under?
<ali1234> no
<MartijnVdS> "a top of the line one"
<penguin42> it's quite possible they have but can't say because the chip isn't released yet publicly yet - that's a fairly common problem
<ali1234> there isn't even an official source stating whether it is ARM or x86
<penguin42> nod, I was wondering that - bit short on details
<ali1234> though the actual quote "the fastest multicore CPU available" suggests that x86 is unlikely, as I don't think an i7 will fit inside a phone
<penguin42> well, it might but it might get a bit toasty :-)
<penguin42> quad-core Atom isn't out of the question though
<ali1234> but that wouldn't be the fastest then, would it?
<penguin42> ali1234: Well no, but then there are Xeons with 20MB cache that I don't think will fit either
<ali1234> yes, good point
<ali1234> and that's why it won't be x86
<penguin42> ali1234: Well it doesn't say fastest multicore CPU within a particular family; so it's no less valid
<penguin42> ali1234: I'm reading that as fastest multicore CPU that will fit
<penguin42> you'd think you'd have people more ready to part with the money if you gave some details
<ali1234> probably not
<penguin42> you mean the people who are fast on their credit card got their first without reading and making them think is a bad idea?
<ali1234> no
<ali1234> more like they just don't care
<penguin42> nod
<ali1234> the smart money is on exynos 5 octacore btw
<penguin42> yeh, although the challenge is which airside interfaces you support
<penguin42> yeh I mean that would make it more attractive in my book if they said that
<penguin42> although I'm too tight to pony up that much probably
<ali1234> exactly
<ali1234> if you haven't bought it yet, you're not going to be convinced because they told you exactly what model of SoC it has
<ali1234> i mean who even cares about that?
<penguin42> well it depends if you fancy doing dev with it
<ali1234> whatever they choose it's going to be overpowered for a phone and underpowered for a desktop
<penguin42> those octacores aren't bad for a netbook level/small laptop - they'd beat a 2 core Atom on a good day maybe even bottom end Core2 if really lucky? (although probably not on graphics)
<ali1234> unless by "dev" you mean reverse engineering and writing open source drivers, i think the SoC model is completely irrelevant
<penguin42> true, I guess that's the way I think - but it might be nice to have something you were reasonably confident could run more than one OS
<Azelphur> http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2013-07/27/pornwall
<Azelphur> so much for bringing ubuntuforums back up ;), epetition is here if you haven't signed already, http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/51746
<penguin42> oh dear
 * penguin42 assumes that now feeds some GCHQ classification system
<Azelphur> lol
<dwatkins> they really don't seem to have thought this all through
<dwatkins> what if I have a friend who is in danger of alcoholism or something else on the list?
<dwatkins> I can't help them because I can't look up information etc.
 * dwatkins goes shopping in disgust
<Azelphur> dwatkins: yea, that legislation would kill some really really /good/ projects, like /r/suicidewatch
<Azelphur> in other news, I have a lifeboat crew hanging out outside my window, https://www.dropbox.com/s/eqg7v941x6rbaw7/2013-07-28%2019.39.54.jpg
<Azelphur> I wonder what they are up to.
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: not drowning
<Azelphur> true :p
<penguin42> well if you get the storms like we've just had then they can probably rescue people on land
<Azelphur> haha
<Azelphur> looks like they decided to leave, think perhaps they came on shore to pick something up
<penguin42> is ars misrendering for anyone else ? Looks like missing all css to me on ff
<penguin42> hmm and chrome
<ali1234> i would be in favour of having all internet connections limited to a whitelist consisting of only twitter and facebook by default
<ali1234> but only if applied world wide
<ali1234> if this happened we might finally see an end to eternal september
<dwatkins> for some people that's all the internet is
 * penguin42 assumes it'll get reduced to pictures of well behaved kittens
<popey> Azelphur: 2013-07-26: the forums are up running again and being tested privately by Forum administrators.
<ali1234> popey: will it be possible for me to find out my old password (by trying it?)
<popey> dunno
<ali1234> because otherwise i won't know which other ones i need to change
<Azelphur> popey: I said that in reference to David Cameron now adding "Web forums" to the list of things he'd love to block ;)
<popey> not my department
<popey> oh i see
<HoT|2fC^iPad> evenings:)
<HoT|2fC^iPad> My processe has detached its self how do I use screen to get it up again? I want to run /usr/local/games/doom3/doom-dedicated.sh +set fs_game emz +exec server.cfg
<HoT|2fC^iPad> I tried screen -A -m -d /usr/local/games/doom3/doom3-dedicated.sh +set fs_game emz +exec server.cfg and it wont run :/
<moreati> HoT|2fC^iPad: run "screen", on it's own, no arguments to start a new screen session
<moreati> HoT|2fC^iPad: then run the command you want to be inside the screen session
<HoT|2fC^iPad> moreati, I am new to screen sorry :-)
<HoT|2fC^iPad> ah nice but what about location?
<moreati> what do you mean by location?
<HoT|2fC^iPad> Do I need to add screen then -A -m -d?
<HoT|2fC^iPad> of the dir's for the game
<HoT|2fC^iPad> I was told on here to use -S option
<moreati> HoT|2fC^iPad: do you already have a screen session running?
<HoT|2fC^iPad> yes emty
<HoT|2fC^iPad> says New session or screen
<moreati> so now run /usr/local/games/doom3/doom-dedicated.sh +set fs_game emz +exec server.cfg
<moreati> once you have your script running inside the screen session you can detach from the session with ctrl a d
<guest-57HqHB> org
#ubuntu-uk 2014-07-21
<MooDoo> morning all
<mapps> hey
<mapps> sup MooDoo
<MooDoo> yo mapps
<mapps> hey
<mapps> g'day
<mapps> :D
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<MooDoo> morning brobostigon and how are you this morning?
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo , not bad, and you?
<MooDoo> hello brobostigon yes I'm good thanks :D
<brobostigon> :)
<selinuxium> Morning all   o/
<MooDoo> moring selinuxium
<foobarry> brobostigon is unusually early
<brobostigon> didnt sleep properly due to this heat,
<foobarry> my son had the biggest tantrum of the year so far at 7am
<brobostigon> :(
<foobarry> calmed down by time i left for work but fetl sorry for wifey
<foobarry> wife threatened to rip up one of his books
<foobarry> so anyway, has anyone tried running linux which has been instaleld onto usb stick ?
<foobarry> hdparm speed is good, but other things are sluggish
<brobostigon> linux as in kernel, or linux as in linux distro?
<MooDoo> Only Fedora on a usb stick
<foobarry> ubuntu server -> usb
<foobarry> tab complete is slow the first time
<foobarry> i understand writes are quite slow
<foobarry> but reads i thought would be OK
<diplo> Morning all
<MooDoo> morning diplo
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Monday and happy Get Out of the Doghouse Day! :-D
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<nigelb> g24
<bigcalm> New SSDs have arrived. Really want to waste my day installing and moving data
<bigcalm> Humf
<selinuxium> :)
<selinuxium> bigcalm, the joy of migration...
<MooDoo> I'm moving all my websites, there is about 14 of them, that sucks.
<MooDoo> one of the disadvantages of working for a hosting company, when you leave you have to start paying lol
<nigelb> lol
<Myrtti> you know, I always try to keep my personal websites and others too specifically on somewhere that I need to pay for it
<nigelb> ^
<Myrtti> and I think I'd make a specific point to make sure that they're hosted by !workplace
<MooDoo> I can't afford the hosting with someone else, I have about 20 sites, so self hosting them works fine
<MooDoo> Myrtti: I'm moving jobs so I loose the free hosting lol
<Myrtti> MooDoo: dreamhost or something with multisite support maybe? there are some relatively cheap ones, I'm told. Anyway I'm not saying that selfhosting is a bad idea, I'm just saying that if I worked for a hosting company, I'd make a specific point of either using a competitor, or selfhost, or whatever, just so you don't have the hassle of dealing with your own stuff with multiple hats on
<MooDoo> Myrtti: yeah if my server doesn't hack it or I have too many connection issues, then I'll look into paid hosting, although it's a cost I could do with ou
<MooDoo> out
<nigelb> g28
<Myrtti> and there's been moments when I've specifically changed hosting companies because I wanted to pay for the service
<MooDoo> I'll stick to hosting and hope virgin is up to it lol
<nigelb> just use digital ocean?
<nigelb> if they're not huge sites, one server should be able to take the load.
<MooDoo> yeah I was looking at them the other day, but my r200 is up to it....and there are no mission critical sites on there.
<nigelb> :)
<Myrtti> I hate thrips ;______________________________;
<nigelb> our local ISPs prohibit running a website locally.
<MooDoo> bummer. it's quite handy for me, i just have to make sure it's not down lol
<Myrtti> I'm literally in tears over these damned things
<MooDoo> if i disappear from irc, then my server is down lol
<nigelb> hah
<Myrtti> the only reason I'm running my main IRC client on vps I admin myself is because freenode staffdom
<Myrtti> otherwise I'd use a shellservice
<Myrtti> (which hosts my other irc connections which I connect to, my websites etc)
<MooDoo> Myrtti: I provide shell access to a few people....they don't do much apart from use irssi
<Myrtti> .... please don't die there, please don't die there... God I hate thrips. With the hate of thousand suns.
<nigelb> Myrtti: what are they doing?
<nigelb> triggering allergies or eating your plants?
<Myrtti> inside my laptop display
<nigelb> @_@
<nigelb> I... wha... how...
<MooDoo> Myrtti: omg i got one the other day......grrrrrrrr
<foobarry> ?
<foobarry> storm bugs?
<MooDoo> nigelb: little bugs
<foobarry> stormflies
<MooDoo> on the inside of your lcd display
<Myrtti> http://www.instructables.com/id/Laptop-Monitor-Thrip-Removal/
<foobarry> have you been using your laptop outside?
<MooDoo> bloomin thinkgs
<Myrtti> aw goddamnit
<Myrtti> it died.
<MooDoo> bugger
<Myrtti> foobarry: open window is enough
 * Myrtti goes to curse outside
<funkyHat> Thrips are drawn to cursing
<MooDoo> ooo I'm catchin up to davmor2 in the ubuntu irc stats.....coming for ya! lol
<davmor2> MooDoo: nope :)
<MooDoo> davmor2: sorry man, I'll shut up now
<davmor2> I don't believe there are stats
<MooDoo> check this out - http://taylorworld.me.uk/ubuntu-uk.html
<brobostigon> :)
<davmor2> MooDoo: oh shiny
<MooDoo> yeah, I look at it once in awhile, and you'll be happy to know my home server is now ubuntu LTS!
<awilkins> Hah, I was 26th
<MooDoo> lol
<diddledan> morning
<MooDoo> morning diddledan
<foobarry> i'm running my microserver off a usb stick. doesn't seem happy :(
<foobarry> what are you others doing?
<MooDoo> I'm running a dell r200 with ubuntu lts,
<diplo> foobarry, Microserver with a 250gb root drive and some raided other drives for storage
<foobarry> diplo: are you near it? would u be able to run hdparm -t /dev/sda to tset the root drive speed please
<diplo> I can remotely login, 2 ticks
<foobarry> mucho thanks
<foobarry> the hdparm is fast for me
<foobarry> but it almot seems to go into usb sleep
<diplo> Disk reads 304mb in 3secs = 101.20 mb/sec
<foobarry> i get 125MB/s..but weird lag
<diplo> Odd
<foobarry> like the lag on a live CD
<foobarry> cos the disk is spinning up
<davmor2> MooDoo: How much wood could a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood?
<diddledan> davmor2: all of it
<DJones> Dear Oracle I do not, and never have wanted to install the browser add-on from Ask, please stop asking me everytime you fix a bug & update java
<MooDoo> davmor2: chuck off
<diddledan> chuck me
<diddledan> :-p
<nigelb> I can't believe ask still exists
<diddledan> if someone can chuck me I'd be mightily impressed
<diddledan> <-- lots of lbs
<MooDoo> diddledan: me too :D
<diddledan> \o/
<diddledan> of course if ever there was a war between skinny and not skinny I think the not-skinny would win, because we can just sit on the enemy :-p
<MooDoo> diddledan: I'm rather tall too :)
<diddledan> I'm fairly tall - around 6ft to 6"1'
<MooDoo> 6'6 here
<diddledan> I never know exactly but somewhere about that
<awilkins> DJones, If you install the JDK they don't pull that rubbish on updates
<bigcalm> RAT people - what time do you fancy meeting up at The Mulberry on Saturday?
<bigcalm> popey, AlanBell, Dave2, czajkowski?
<Dave2> Dunno. I'm going to be in Southend on Sea, so not too early.
<Dave2> Utterly stupid journey I'm doing
<bigcalm> Dave2: as long as you get there in time for the RAT :)
<Dave2> Of course.
<Dave2> I've figured out some trains that could get me there for 15:30 and still give me 4ish hours in Southend
<bigcalm> Erm
<bigcalm> It's not this Saturday
<czajkowski> bigcalm: not sure ages away no ?
<bigcalm> I am an idiot
<Dave2> Correct
<Dave2> Not ages away
<Dave2> Weekend after next
<bigcalm> 2nd August, week Saturday
<Dave2> A pretty sensible time to set times.
<bigcalm> Yes :)
<Dave2> Given that I'm going to be spending a lot of time on trains. Probably.
<Dave2> err
<Dave2> get me there for 17:30
<Dave2> not 15:30
<Dave2> (confusion because it's a 15:14 train I'd have to catch to do that)
<foobarry> is there anything like this on linux? http://www.therenamer.com/
<diddledan> foobarry: I like how they insinuate that you're downloading pirated video :-p
<foobarry> which i'm not :(
<diddledan> foobarry: it might work in wine?
<foobarry> but i'm naming them myself
<foobarry> and its time consumpting
<foobarry> it might, but i'm sure there's a OSS version
<foobarry> http://alternativeto.net/software/movie-renamer/
<diddledan> couch potato does it as you download, but that doesn't help with ripping your own discs
<foobarry> everything seems against the legal way
<diddledan> or am I thinking sickbeard?
<foobarry> i'm gonna do it legal though
<Myrtti> thunar has a mass renamer
<Myrtti> also 'rename' is surprisingly good. And mc
<foobarry> https://github.com/tvrenamer/tvrenamer
<foobarry> Myrtti: this one is designed for tv shows
<foobarry> so it names them correctly for plex media server to add to library
<foobarry> and add the media info
<foobarry> diplo: is your 250gb root drive plugged into slot1?
<diplo> Probably, not 100% sure.. wonder if I can find that out.. never tried
<foobarry> is it visible when you open the door?
<diplo> I've not opened it in 2+ years :)
<foobarry> there's a 4 drive bay
<diplo> It's at home and I'm currently at work, can look tonight though
<foobarry> no its no problem
<diplo> I thought you meant the slot1 sata slot
<foobarry> how many data disksk u have?
<diplo> Probably is in slot 1 of the drive bay, but can't 100% it.. 2 x 4tb
<diplo> 2tb*
<foobarry>  /home on the data or root?
<diplo> root
<foobarry> root is unraided..
<diplo> Just /srv is on the data drives
<diplo> yeah :)
<diplo> It was a quick setup to change in a couple of months :)
<foobarry> i could find 2 x 20gb drives to raid
<diplo> Never got round to it, and ran out of cash to buy more drives
<foobarry> thts the thing, i don't wanna spend more money on powerline plugs and SSDs
<diplo> tbh if it dies I'll just reinstall on a new drive, really not that worried.. backup /etc and that is about it
<diplo> No need for SSD's for me in it. It sits there idle a lot of the time and nothing I do on it really taxes it
<diplo> brb
<foobarry> hoping that once services are running then i won't have slowness
<diplo> Maybe, never tried running on a usb stick permanently ever
<Czechton> can anyone help with the error "grub-install /dev/sda failed"?
<awilkins> Czechton, Is there a virus protection feature in your BIOS?
<Czechton> its on a c720 chromebook
<Czechton> but seabios is enabled
<awilkins> No idea then
<Czechton> and plenty of other people have managed to install linux on it
<MooDoo> http://raywaldo.com/2013/01/howto-ubuntu-on-chromebook/
<Czechton> i already enablked seabios using chromeOS and then installed a totally new drive with no os on it
<Czechton> now I'm trying to install ubuntu on that and thats when i get this error
<Czechton> but maybe chrome is needs to exist for the MBR to be modified??
<Czechton> this is the relevent bit of the syslog http://paste.ubuntu.com/7830399/
<diddledan> it looks like you might have not partitioned your disk?
<diddledan> line 69 and 70 are the actual error
<Czechton> there was an earlier installation step which supposedly did partition
<diddledan> if your disk is entirely ubuntified there shouldn't be any FAT filesystems anywhere
<Czechton> hmm
<Czechton> unless the usb drive I'm booting in is FAT
<Czechton> could that be it?
<diddledan> that would be fat. in which case you need to install the grub onto sdb
<Czechton> ok
<diddledan> if you're still in the live os without rebooting, you might be able to get away with "chroot /target grub-install  --force "/dev/sdb""
<diddledan> sudo may be required
<Czechton> so how ok i'll try that
<Czechton> *ok I'll try that
<diddledan> :-)
<diddledan> if it complains that it can't run the command because it ain't there you'll need to mount your installation first
<Czechton> the commad runs
<diddledan> did it succeed?
<Czechton> then i get "installing for i386-pc platform"
<Czechton> then /proc/devices fopen failed: no such file or directory"
<Czechton> then a bunch of "device not found"
<Czechton> then a bunch more "/proc/devices fopen failed: no such file or directory"
<Czechton> then "installation finished. no error reported"
<Czechton> no idea if that means it worked or not :/
<diddledan> you should be good to reboot now
<diddledan> *cross fingers*
<Czechton> ok lets see
<Czechton> :)
<Czechton> i'm in a grub shell?
<diddledan> grr
<diddledan> ok, that means grub installed but didn't get a config
<Czechton> well i guess it means grub was sort of installed
<diddledan> type the following:
<Czechton> yeh
<diddledan> set root=(hd0,0)
<Czechton> ok
<diddledan> linux /boot/vmlinuz<press tab> root=/dev/sdb1
<diddledan> initrd /boot/initrd<press tab again>
<diddledan> boot
<diddledan> the tab should either fill out the filename or prompt you with a list of available names - choose one and make sure the initrd is the same number
<Czechton> pressing tab just makes the same line appear again
<diddledan> hmm
<diddledan> ok, probably easier to reboot back into the live disk and repair from there
<Czechton> k
<diddledan> when it prompts you for "install" or "try" choose the try option
<diddledan> that way we get a fully functional desktop which we can use to repair the grub
<Czechton> ah ok
<Czechton> well i was trying to use ubunut minimal which sdoesnt have an ionbuilt desktop
<Czechton> but i can just install one
<Czechton> maybe i'll try and install with a fuller distro
<diddledan> when you've loaded the live disk start a terminal and run: http://paste.ubuntu.com/7830489/ <-- I'm assuming you installed / into /dev/sdb1 and don't have a /boot partition
<diddledan> if you have a /boot partition you'll need to amend the /dev/sdb1 to where you put root and add in a mount for /dev/sdb1 (if that's your boot partition) to /target/boot
<diddledan> the last command in that list is what configures grub's menu
<diddledan> it scans available discs and kernels and makes a new grub.conf in /boot/grub/ which will set you up golden (hopefully)
<Czechton> weird
<Czechton> theres nothing in /target
<diddledan> did you mount?
<Czechton> it failed saying "no such file or directory"
<diddledan> try `ls -l /dev/sd??`
<Czechton> yeh there's only sda now
<Czechton> not sure what happened to the sdb stuff that we made earlier
<diddledan> I think that's probably a side-effect of the minimal installer - it needs to load the kernel module first
<Czechton> yeh i think i'll just try the full ubuntu installer
<Czechton> but i need to go now
<Czechton> thanks for all the help
<Czechton> i'll keep this log in cade i run into the same issue on the full install
<diddledan> you're welcome to come back any time and someone will try to help, no doubt
<Czechton> yeh
<Czechton> thanks
<Czechton> #ubunut-uk is much better than #ubuntu
<Czechton> too many people in there
<diddledan> :-)
<diddledan> yeah it can get a bit unruly
<foobarry> this is an old mans pub. #ubuntu is a busy bar
<Czechton> heeh
<Czechton> *hehe
 * diddledan pours a beer
<foobarry> free beer
<diddledan> free?!
<diddledan> no wai
<Czechton> cool cool
<Czechton> see you later old men
<bigcalm> You have the freedom to think about beer
<Myrtti> today in our series of redneck hacks at home: I taped some baking foil on outer side of the conservatory doors using masking tape stickies
<bigcalm> Coated them in oil and now you're frying stuff vertically?
<Myrtti> well, the point is mainly https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c17t_Pf8vI4 this
<bigcalm> You want to blind some neighbours?
<Myrtti> I don't give a damn about the neighbours at this stage of being a broiled Myrtti myself.
<bigcalm> Ah, it's to lure dreamy Prof. Cox?
<Myrtti> yup.
<bigcalm> Aww
<Myrtti> seriously though, I don't quite understand the previous tenants fascination of building a conservatory as a replacement for a backdoor and window for the kitchen.
<bigcalm> I'm not looking forward to the earth rotating for another hour. That's when this office becomes like the Sun room in Sunshine
<Myrtti> yeah well our conservatory is on eastern side of the house, without a shade for most of the day
<Myrtti> and this end of the building is on the southern side
<davmor2> bigcalm: you been to blists hill?
<Myrtti> so all three outer walls are towards the sun
<bigcalm> davmor2: as a child. Keep meaning to go as an adult, keep forgetting to
<diddledan> wow, I didn't know a kilowatt was the equivalent to 10x100Watt bulbs
<diddledan> </sarcasm>
<davmor2> bigcalm: We went last week great fun :)
<davmor2> bigcalm: only complaint we had there was no cashpoint so unless you knew to take money you couldn't buy anything from the village itself :(
<bigcalm> diddledan: the programme is aimed at the lowest common denominator
<Myrtti> diddledan: well, it makes it more tangible...
<Myrtti> literally
<bigcalm> Yep
<diddledan> :-p
<diddledan> I do like ol' coxie tho
<davmor2> diddledan: it makes it more visible......to be honest that many bulbs in a small place you'll be lucky to see again ;)
<bigcalm> davmor2: where they rolling iron bars?
<davmor2> bigcalm: no I think that was the one bit that wasn't running that day.
<bigcalm> Shame, it's amazing to watch
<bigcalm> Did you see candles being made?
<foobarry> t=4; echo $t
<foobarry> how can i get bash to echo the result of $t+4
<foobarry> t=4; echo "$(($t+4))"
<foobarry> thanks foobarry
<Myrtti> hey fellas
<Myrtti> have you noticed
<Myrtti> foobarry talks to himself.
<foobarry> its perfectly normal
<bigcalm> Heh
<foobarry> on irc
<bigcalm> IRC makes for a good rubber duck
<bigcalm> Here comes the sun!
<foobarry> shame the bot doesn't talk bash
 * diddledan sings "here comes the sun. do dun doo dun"
<bigcalm> Whish I could do: git branch -d v1.4.0_*
<Myrtti> RUN, RUN TO THE HILLS
<diddledan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6j4TGqVl5g
<bigcalm> Run to the caves I'd say
<diddledan> bigcalm: your fault
<Myrtti> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-FsfUwnm_rg
<Myrtti> oooh http://www.bfi.org.uk/news-opinion/news-bfi/announcements/imitation-game-will-open-58th-bfi-london-film-festival
<diddledan> kiera knightly is lush
<bigcalm> Myrtti: that was nice
<Myrtti> unsurprisingly I didn't even notice her
<Myrtti> *cough*
<diddledan> Myrtti: too busy looking at benedict?
<Myrtti> of course not. I kept my eyes on the Bombes ;-)
<Myrtti> Bomberfink Cryptoglomp
<diddledan> I can't get the video to play :-(
<bigcalm> Worked for me in Chromium
<diddledan> doesn't work in chrome (sans mium) on either my mac nor my ubuntu
<foobarry> KN is overated IMO
<diddledan> works in firefox on ubuntu tho
<diddledan> must be something wrong with the google-endorsed version of flash for the ppapi
<foobarry> doesn't it use html5?
<diddledan> not in chrome it odesn't
<awilkins> In Firefox it's a <video> tag
<diddledan> in chrome it's flash
<bigcalm> Looks like I don't have Flash installed for Chromium. Going to youtube.com shows: Adobe Flash Player is required to display some elements on this page.
<awilkins> Stick this in a VLC instance : http://cdnapi.kaltura.com/p/857922/sp/85792200/playManifest/entryId/1_yhi0s4xp/flavorId/1_8i9n0gx4/format/url/protocol/http/a.mp4?ks=YmQ4MjIzNzRkM2ZhNzllYjZkZjBkMTU5MTViMjk1YmVkMDg5NmYzYXw4NTc5MjI7ODU3OTIyOzE0MDYwNDI1NTA7MDsxNDA1OTU2MTUwLjI3NzswO3ZpZXc6Kix3aWRnZXQ6MTs7&referrer=aHR0cDovL3d3dy5iZmkub3JnLnVr
<diddledan> that loads in chrome
<awilkins> Not watching the vid, but the still ... well, even I think Benedict is looking hotter than Kiera
<awilkins> Not really a Knightley kinda guy though
<foobarry> my wife thinks benedict is overatted too
<diddledan> I've bene in love with kiera forever
<diddledan> been*
<awilkins> I had a real crush on Karen Allen in Starman
<foobarry> ^Allen^Gillen
<foobarry> ^starman^drwho
<diddledan> lol
<foobarry> ^real^not real
<awilkins> Actually really rate JL Coleman
<foobarry> they have a knack of choosing pretty girls for dr who
<foobarry> considering yewtree are after the dr
<awilkins> Although Karen did  manage to stimulate my slight penchant for redheads
<foobarry> oh...linkedin have reset their spam settings
<foobarry> now i'm getting spam again from them
<diddledan> I get emails all the time from linkedin
<davmor2> bigcalm: you breaking stuff again, you really need to join QA you know :)
<bigcalm> ?
<davmor2> bigcalm: you either broke chromium or flash
<davmor2> bigcalm: sorry ignoring irc mostly today E:TOO_MANY_EMAILS
<bigcalm> davmor2: it works for me, I broke nothing
<davmor2> bigcalm: oh okay
<davmor2> MooDoo: Oh slacker boy, when do you start working again, and do you have regular hours at the new job rather than all over the place hours?
<mapps> hello all
<davmor2> hello mapps
<mapps> whats up
<mapps> :D
<mapps> done my days tasks..shopping and weeding ..exciting day off;D
<davmor2> Myrtti: My wife is a knitter and the campsite we were on had some alpaca's nearby so we went and fed them and she picked up some Wool while she was there Â£18 for 100grams I nearly died of shock but she was quite happy :)
<Myrtti> I pay for artisan dyed pure merino about that per 100
<davmor2> Myrtti: oh this was proper artisan.  They have about 20 alpaca's so they don't produce much wool, it's spun locally and sent back to them, they have a spinning class but that wool is never consistent enough for sale.  Quite a nice set up they have to be honest :)
<Myrtti> ah, so it was already spun? then I'm not surprised at all at that price
<davmor2> Myrtti: ofcourse being a knitter She needed a lot of balls for a jumper
<Myrtti> kilo and a half?
<Myrtti> less?
<davmor2> No 6 balls is enough at 100grams for her, but still not cheap :)
<davmor2> kilo plus would be a jumper for me with long sleeves
<davmor2> czajkowski: where in the world are you this week
<diddledan> lol
<czajkowski> davmor2: home
<czajkowski> until tomorrow then I'm off to Munich
<diddledan> czajkowski: do you ever sit still? :-p
<davmor2> diddledan: yeah in planes and airports for hours
<mapps> deciding where im gonna go next year now:D
<mapps> moscow!
<diddledan> next year? I haven't gone anywhere this year
<mapps> been czech rep this year..riga in 3 weeks..ibiza september 20th
<mapps> MOSCOW!
<mapps> January a flight from Gatwick 75 quid direct..return same
<mapps> figure thatd be somewherefun to go
<diddledan> cheap
<diddledan> which airline?
<Myrtti> Russia gives me the creepers
<Myrtti> but I'm a Finn so it's inbuilt
<mapps> cant remember sec
<diddledan> Myrtti: russia is fine as long as you aren't known to associate with anyone like me that will state in a public media like this that putin is a nutjob
<diddledan> oh
<diddledan> hmm. did I just ruin it all for you?
<Myrtti> well... a tiny bit
<mapps> and its moscow
<Myrtti> mapps: time to have the visa sorted then
<mapps> not a tiny part of moscow
<mapps> so i think moscow would be ok
<Myrtti> St. Petersburg I'd distantly even understand as a place you'd want to go
<Myrtti> not that I'd go there myself
<Myrtti> but Moscow, no.
<mapps> why
<mapps> moscow is meant to be great
<foobarry> been to both
<diddledan> I've got a hankering to watch mission: impossible 4 again
<diddledan> or was it 5?
<diddledan> I lost track
<foobarry> moscow was grey and snowy/wet. leningrad was grey/snow/wet
<foobarry> 1990. glasnost, perestroika etc
<mapps> good time foobarry?
<diddledan> foobarry: did you try the Chernobyl tour?
<diddledan> foobarry: I've heard it's illuminating (in a green glow)
<diddledan> crazy that I had to google for the name Chernobyl. all I could pull out of my brian was fukishima
<Myrtti> foobarry: Hermitage, State Russian Museum, Mariinsky, Saint Isaac's Cathedral
<Myrtti> eh, wrong person, that was for mapps
<foobarry> when was cherno?
<diddledan> foobarry: 57?
<Myrtti> the only places I can think from the top of my head I'd like to see in Moscow is Red Square, the church next to it, and the mausoleum, which is next to it too.
<Myrtti> what
<Myrtti> 57?
<foobarry> our moscow hotel wobbled in the wind
<mapps> what about those places yu mentioned Myrtti
<Myrtti> my god years have flown
<mapps> lol foobarry
<foobarry> saw red sq, lenin, hermitage, kremlin, snow, mcD's (newly opened)
<Myrtti> I thought I was only 34 and I remember when it happened.
<foobarry> hotel, coach , bereyozhka
<Myrtti> but I suppose few decades must've flown by so fast...
<diddledan> 86**
<diddledan> I can't count
<diddledan> I saw an unrelated google autocomplete that said 57 so assumpted it was that
<mapps> bereyozhka?
<diddledan> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyshtym_disaster
<foobarry> mapps: bereyozhka were shops that only tourists were allowed to shop in
<foobarry> regular russians weren't allowed in
<foobarry> to buy levi's and coca cola etc
<czajkowski> davmor2: :p
<mapps> lol what the hell foobarry
<mapps> not like that anymore i guess?
<diddledan> russia is capitalist again now
<mapps> howcome those shops were allowed
<mapps> even to sell to tourists
<diddledan> because the government controlled them
<Myrtti> to get foreign money
<Myrtti> foreign currency
<Myrtti> you see
<mapps> ah
<mapps> why would they want foreign currency or is that a silly question
<foobarry> it was to control the population, and not let them see that you could buy western things
<foobarry> the rouble was not allowed to be taken out of the USSR
<mapps> oh
<Myrtti> mapps: to buy stuff from abroad, of course.
<Myrtti> not that many countries were interested in doing trading for nuclear powerstations and such.
<Myrtti> or if they were, it wasn't widely publicised
<Myrtti> case in point: deBeers
<mapps> ah
<Myrtti> probably more like a money laundering operation of a kind ;-)
<Myrtti> hide where the dollars came from by having a facade of tourist money
<foobarry> dollars had big buying power against the rouble
<foobarry> which plumeeted in value
<foobarry> hmm
<foobarry> can't see my tv shows in plex server
<mapps> what to watch
<mapps> ;]
<n1md4> hi.
<n1md4> ... actually, nm.  thatks :)
<diddledan> glad I could help
#ubuntu-uk 2014-07-22
<Czechton> hey diddledan, thanks for the help with grub earlier
<Czechton> i just installed Bodhi on the chromebook and it installed grub without any complaints
<MooDoo> morning all
<Myrtti> moin
<SuperMatt> morning
<nigelb> Happy Inaccurate Pi Day!
<MooDoo> 3.143 ;)
<SuperMatt> oh, harr harr
<MooDoo> ;)
<diplo> Morning all
<MooDoo> mornign
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Hammock Day! :-D
<MooDoo> morning
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<MooDoo> hello brobostigon
<SuperMatt> I am in considerable amounts of self-inflicted pain
<MooDoo> SuperMatt: out on the lash last night?
<SuperMatt> I don't really go out on the last these days
<SuperMatt> no.
<MooDoo> What you done then?
<SuperMatt> I spent about 3 hours dancing, only taking a break for about 3 songs
<MooDoo> ouch
<SuperMatt> I finally found a follower to do some kick-ass aerials with
<SuperMatt> which is nice
<davmor2> SuperMatt: you crazier that MooDoo
<davmor2> than even
<davmor2> too much blood in my Caffeine stream
<MooDoo> davmor2: me no understad ebleesh!
<SuperMatt> what does MooDooDo?
<davmor2> SuperMatt: do they pick up sky for free, that would be a kick-ass aerial
<davmor2> MooDoo: is just crazy
<MooDoo> davmor2: I am, ubuntu lts is running on my server now, your fault
<davmor2> MooDoo: and your loving it you know it :P
<davmor2> MooDoo: did you get to have a play with lxc and juju yet?
<MooDoo> davmor2: centos is easier, you don't have to a2ensite or a2enmod etc
<MooDoo> davmor2: no I've not got the kit yet, although I am purchasing a dell 1950 next week
<davmor2> hahaha
<davmor2> MooDoo: you got a laptop right
<MooDoo> davmor2: yeah I know I could play with that....
<MooDoo> davmor2: all this stuff and not a lot of time to do it.
<davmor2> MooDoo: exactly kill your time off wisely play with juju you will get sucked in and never view sysadmin-ing the same again ;)
<MooDoo> davmor2: pah
<MooDoo> JamesTait: when for the love of the gods are you going to advertise cacnonical tea boy on facebook ;)
<davmor2> MooDoo: I'm prepared to back that with a beer next time we meet, so you know it must be true :P
<MooDoo> pah! bribes....working though.....:)
<JamesTait> MooDoo, that's my job!
<MooDoo> davmor2: well that's rubbish you can't run windows in a lxc
<davmor2> MooDoo: Why would you want to make your eyes bleed with that :P
<MooDoo> davmor2: coz I need to use windows 2008 server
<JamesTait> MooDoo, I think there's a kvm provider.
<davmor2> MooDoo: you can run it in xen or kvm which you can pull in on request, you can also I believe use juju on windows too, some contractors to Mircosoft made it happen and are feeding the results back into Ubuntu's juju :)
<MooDoo> davmor2: god dammit sudo apt-get install lxc
<MooDoo> ;)
<davmor2> MooDoo: you can just do sudo apt install lxc too :P
<davmor2> MooDoo: along with apt search/list/show
<MooDoo> I know I know
<davmor2> MooDoo: much nicer than trying to remember the apt- incantation
<MooDoo> has it been announced who the new community manager is yet?
<JamesTait> Not sure if it's been announced.
<davmor2> MooDoo: nope
<MooDoo> davmor2: then tell shuttleworth to get his ass in gear :)
<davmor2> MooDoo: you tell him nothing to do with me :)
<mapps> :D
<foobarry> lots of fun with microserver last night :)
<MooDoo> yaya
<foobarry> while wifey was watching programme about silly maerians
<foobarry> americans
<foobarry> raided my disks, configured postfix to email me, and configged plex server
<foobarry> which is super fancy
<diddledan> morning
<MooDoo> hello diddledan
<brobostigon> i just thought up a good nickname for our mp, where i live. tony baldrick.
<diddledan> http://research.swtch.com/6502
<SomeCould> Is this the best in this category ? http://amzn.to/1rxV5pu  Note: Category/Home Operating System, Linux +1, Ubuntu+1, +Out_of_stock .
<bigcalm> 32bit?
<awilkins> SomeCould, To be honest... unless you have no USB sticks already, and no working computers, I'd consider that poor value
<awilkins> You can get quite a swanky 16GB stick for that money and install Ubuntu on it yourself
<awilkins> Heck, you can get 32GB sticks for that money
<SomeCould> #cluster____
<SomeCould> leaves.
<diddledan> huh?
<Gargoyle> random!
<davmor2> that's it Aircon is on
<daftykins> aircon eh, very fancy
<diddledan> I need aircon
<diddledan> but first. it's luncheon time
<SuperMatt> ok, https time: there's a *relatively* new feature in https where the browswer checks to with the cert provider to see that the cert is valid... does anyone know what this is called
<diddledan> SuperMatt: ocsp?
<SuperMatt> that's the one
<diddledan> wow
<diddledan> first try
 * diddledan bows
<diddledan> I'm here all week
 * daftykins claps twice
 * Myrtti goes to order the fish
<daftykins> Myrtti: tell it who's boss!
<Myrtti> oh, I just would've wanted some river cobbler, nice dill sauce and boiled baby potatoes, side salad with balsamic and olive oil and a pint of Crabbies...
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/il6u3zoca3u6hfg/IMG_20140720_151915.jpg
<daftykins> :D
<Myrtti> :-(
<diddledan> daftykins: stop taking the weewee
<diddledan> :-p
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/n8aovniwfwintdt/IMG_20140720_153456.jpg
<daftykins> but it's such a fine place!
<daftykins> i was there sunday, could only get EDGE :( heh, took ages to up pics
<diddledan> yeah, pretty places never have decent wireless
<diddledan> can't get it all I guess
<daftykins> i did see they have a network, didn't enquire if it was available for use
<daftykins> if i priced up a router i could probably send them a quote
<daftykins> ah, hexy
<JamesTait> MooDoo, http://theravingrick.blogspot.co.uk/2014/07/the-community-team.html
<davmor2> bigcalm: by the way that update for the xoom tablet auto updates via the cyanogenmod updater I'm on android 4.4.4 apparently :)
<bigcalm> davmor2: nice. Haven't used my tablet for a long time now :(
<davmor2> bigcalm: I like to have it at my bed side for games and communications then it sits there till the following night.
<davmor2> Man I'm actually starting to shiver it's that cold, /me turns the aircon up a degree
<bigcalm> My phone does that
<davmor2> bigcalm: but only because your tablet was crappy now it need no longer be ;)
<davmor2> although your phone possibly has more memory and a faster processor :)
<bigcalm> No, my phone sits in one hand and I can use it lying on my side. Tablet does not do that
<foobarry> any chromecast users find the colours too saturated?
<mapps> nah
<mapps> works fine for me
<mapps> 4od app doesnt work with it does it?
<dogmatic69> When I plug my iphone in to 14.04 I get nothing, not even showing in lsusb. It is charging though... any ideas?
<diddledan> phew I'm hot now
<diddledan> my body isn't designed for doing... things
<diddledan> pretty much anything
<mapps> ARGH
<mapps> strongswan isnt working with my iphone
<mapps> damnit
<diddledan> grrz
<mapps> yea
<mapps> its proving to be a right pain
<diddledan> the recycling bin at the end of my road isn't big enough to cope with my cola habbit
<diddledan> :-p
<mapps> :D
<mapps> hm
<diddledan> it would be fine if I didn't have to share it with the entire neighbourhood :-p
<mapps> how do i apply for a visa i wonder
<diddledan> russia?
<mapps> some site said they can help
<mapps> and charge 140
<mapps> seemed a bit much
<mapps> yea diddledan
<diddledan> I figure the cheapest way is direct through the russian embassy but that means finding an office nearby
<mapps> oh
<mapps> i tohught i coulddo it online
<diddledan> prolly can
<mapps> i hope
<diddledan> I'm thinking ancient times
<diddledan> before cellphones
<diddledan> :-D
<mapps> :D
<diddledan> can you believe, I have a little gizmo in my pocket that is just like an ordinary phone but without any wires?!
<diddledan> it's like the future already
<penguin42> interesting, Trusty kernel causing an oops on my dads machine intermittently
<diddledan> hmm
<diddledan> maybe ram is wonky?
<diddledan> might be worth sticking a soak test overnight with memtest86 to be sure
<penguin42> no, it's a kernel bug - I can see another report, the backtrace is the same
<diddledan> fair enoughh
<penguin42> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1296660  I've added to that, although I should file a separate bug
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 1296660 in linux (Ubuntu) "Kernel oops: fb: conflicting fb hw usage astdrmfb vs VESA VGA (unable to handle kernel NULL pointer dereference / con_set_unimap+0x32" [High,Confirmed]
#ubuntu-uk 2014-07-23
<maps|wrk> yay think iv got strongswan working with ios
<maps|wrk> :D
<penguin42> what size hammer did you need?
<maps|wrk> yay its working
<maps|wrk> :D
<maps|wrk> i was getting confused by xauth-generic and how to enable the plugin
<maps|wrk> all i had to do was install strongswan-plugin-xauth-generic
<maps|wrk> i was making it harder than needed
<maps|wrk> =]
<mapps> hi
<mapps> http://www.weather.com/news/science/environment/lego-pieces-wash-ashore-cornwall-england-20140721
<MooDoo> hi
<mapps> hey MooDoo
<mapps> live near cornwall? go find some lego
<mapps> :D
<MartijnVdS> free lego!
<mapps> :D
<mapps> anyone been legoland
<mapps> uk or dk one
<mapps> can anyone help me
<mapps> spent ages setting up strongswan..it works well connects
<mapps> but no internet through it..ive enabled ip forwarding and got a masquerade iptables rule
<Myrtti> morning
<mapps> morning
<Myrtti> today in UUK's nature photography https://www.flickr.com/search/?tags=fensproblems&sort=relevance&user_id=78835633%40N00
<mapps> hotel hells back yay
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<jujhar> msg NickServ IDENTIFY jujhars13 gHY70XrKMh
<MooDoo> jujhars13: change your password, you pasted that into the channel
<foobarry> lol
<jujhars13> i know
<jujhars13> sorry, me being a noob
<jujhars13> I generated a new one - thanks
<MooDoo> jujhars13: lol don't worry :)
<DJones> I hate to say this, but can somebody turn the sun down a bit
<DJones> Medium roast instead of hot roast would do
<Myrtti> it's overcast over here and I'm happy
<dogmatic69_> just turn it off
<foobarry> is it nice out?
<foobarry> i can't see a window
<MooDoo> yea it's nice here in notts
<MooDoo> in fact I've just opened the window
<DJones> I always wish that on the weather forecast, they'd also give the temperature in the sun and not just in the shade as normal
<Myrtti> oh you mean something like this
<Myrtti> [09:28:45] <@Myrtti> .weather PE282TL
<Myrtti> [09:28:46] < pohjantahti> , United Kingdom: Temperature: 20.9Â°C, feels like: 21.8Â°C, wind: 2.1  m/s, humidity: 85%, pressure: 1022 hPa, cloudiness: 24%
<Laney> good old PE28
<Myrtti> yeah.
<DJones> Myrtti: Not sure if that shows the difference, that seems like its just taking the air temperature in the shade and adjusting for a rise due to the wind, full sun temperatures can be a fair bit higher (5-10C)
<Myrtti> probably yeah
<Laney> I remember when we got renamed from PE17 5 to PE28 4
<Laney> halcyon days
<DJones> At the end of last week driving up to hospital, the car's gauge was showing about 28C, once we stopped and parked up in full sun, the gauge went up to 38C
<Myrtti> Laney: you're that close by?
<Laney> Myrtti: not any more
<Laney> parents are though
<javo> hi there
<MooDoo> afternoon
<diddledan> morning
<bashrc> evening
<diddledan> night
<diddledan> that was a quick day
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<foobarry> need jelly sweets
<Myrtti> meh, nobody has done an irssi ppa yet...
<javo> Dunno if any of you were here thwn, but days ago a was in despair about a crash in my 14.04 after actualizing the  ubuntu-base package
<javo> no network, no sound, no graphic card
<bigcalm> popey: ddrescue to copy old drive to new drive, gparted to resize the new drive partition. Worked a treat, didn't have to install a new boot loader
<javo> Well, today I've found the sollution.... easy, almost obvious, like the hidden note in Poe's tale
<bigcalm> Ah, popey is on holiday
<daftykins> bigcalm: was that the drive that was going bad?
<bigcalm> daftykins: I don't have any drives going bad. Just very full drives
<daftykins> ah ok, must've been someone else
<bigcalm> I've only ever had 1 SSD go wonky on me before and that was some time ago
<diplo> daftykins, twas me :)
<daftykins> ah-har!
<daftykins> any progress yet sir?
<diplo> Well someone I knows lappy :)
<diplo> I've told them it's broke, they cost this new.. that was Wednesday I think last week :)
<diplo> So I'm guessing they don't want it fixed or they're busy
<daftykins> ah-har
<daftykins> i had a really interesting one with a friends girlfriends PC, she works from home on it so it behaving is quite important
<daftykins> i'd been watching the SMART info which was racking up the value in an ECC correcting field as well as the 'Read Error Rate' one
<daftykins> if you tried to do more than one thing at once, due to low RAM in the system too, it'd be so incredibly painful to use
<daftykins> sort of 30+ seconds to run a text editor
<diplo> that sucks :/
<diplo> I see most newer laptops actually have a fairly decent amount of ram, all the ones I get are Vista with 1gb ram!
<diplo> :/
<daftykins> it was a natty little Dell with an early sandybridge i3 ~2100, so no slouch. an SSD popped in and weeeee \o/
<daftykins> haha, damned Vista
<awilkins> SSDs in a particular niche have been far more reliable than spinny rust
<awilkins> That's in my external caddy for work <-> home office transit
<awilkins> i) They are shock tolerant
<awilkins> ii) They don't kill the rubbish power electronics in external caddy controllers as much as spinny rust does
<awilkins> The power surge that a spinning drive does on startup apparently taxes the cheap drive controllers in external caddies until they start to die
<awilkins> Because I had to replace the caddy about as much as the drive when I was using them
<awilkins> Very happy with an SSD in a combo eSATA / USB box though
<awilkins> Nice 3.5" bay for my desktop at home as well
<awilkins> And I have quite hefty data loads  on those SSDs and they've not expired from use yet
<daftykins> ah this is so much easier the second time around
<daftykins> (now that it's me doing the whole job :D - iPhone 4 disassembly)
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/josdxfs4wye7ni5/IMG_20140723_153436.jpg
<mapps> ARGH
<mapps> They chargedmy card 400 quid and didnt even tell me
<diddledan> :-o
<mapps> 'just put a card down to secure reservation'
<mapps> yea nice one
<foobarry> who? strip club?
<foobarry> no reputable establishment would do such a thing
<mapps> booking.com
<mapps> riga apartment
<mapps> put me off using booking.com again tbh
<mapps> no emails telling me nothing..i chose to pay cash on arrival
<mapps> gah
<funkyHat> mapps: I've used booking.com several times, had no problem cancelling a booking after putting my card details down
<funkyHat> I'm pretty sure they hold the card details and don't give them to the hotel
<funkyHat> mapps: oh, I didn't read far enough up to see the bit where you say they charged. Dodgy.
<funkyHat> mapps: someone in #ubuntu-offtopic works for them and may be able to look into it for you
<funkyHat> Last night I used 'cheapoair' to book flights and car hire... hopefully nothing goes wrong D;
<mapps> :D
<mapps> whee u going
<daftykins> mapps: sorry, saw your message last night but it was waaaay past my bedtime :>
<daftykins> just taken apart that iPhone 4 again to replace the power button, all fixed \o/
<mapps> yay
<mapps> i hate taking iphones apart tbh
<daftykins> it went really smoothly this time
<daftykins> which is great because there's a bit of dirt right in front of the front facing camera i'll have to clean =|
<mapps> i need to get a new touchpad for this rv520
<mapps> so annoying with it having broken
<mapps> i could just use a mouse i guess
<daftykins> can't believe this whole tool set and replacement cost me Â£2.99
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/009t9yo76r4wg4w/IMG_20140723_145432.jpg
<mapps> ja
<mapps> hoorah
<mapps> swan and openvpn on my box
<mapps> openvpn was fine until that ios issue which i cant find any help with
<mapps> :<
<daftykins> but all working with strongswan now?
<mapps> yep
<mapps> iphone 5 connected atm
<mapps> and hopefully it wont disconnect when phone auto locks
<mapps> that was the only issue i had with openVPN
<mapps> gonna leave both running
<mapps> :D
<mapps> that show the strain is cool
<daftykins> what's that about?
<mapps> vampire show
<mapps> kinda
<mapps> an outbreak thing
<mapps> fx show..really good :D
<MattJ> Someone... recommend a stack for DIY dyndns
<daftykins> MattJ: switch to noip ;)
<MattJ> No
<MattJ> I'm done with third parties
<MattJ> I used noip a long time ago
<MattJ> I need wildcard subdomains
<daftykins> i see
<gebbione> anyone uses anacron? i would like to understand how i should set up things such that anacron crons stdout is logged somewhere as it looks like at the moment it is not loggin in syslog
<arsen> daftykins  \o/
<funkyHat> gebbione: if you install a MTA, postfix for example, the output of your cron jobs will be emailed to you
<daftykins> arsen: what-o sir, how be tricks?
<davmor2> daftykins: the What-o-sir sounds like an invention from Wallace and Grommit
<daftykins> XD
<daftykins> who knows what this brain absorbs
<arsen> :)
<arsen> good thankye. busybusy, new job soon.
<arsen> just attempting to figure out what's up with my lappy. out of the blue it's decided i'm no longer allowed to do anything after i log in :D
<daftykins> arsen: O_O mac?
<daftykins> and job hopping again eh, crikey
<arsen> negatory, dell xps m1330 - ubuntu.
<daftykins> hell i can't talk, still not got a proper one \o/
<foobarry> anyanyone with a 9yr old son in yr4 wanna do some market research and get Â£Â£
<arsen> i probably hit "yes" whilst drunk on "do you want to install updates you dont need and will break your gfx?" :((
<arsen> sadtimes.
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> i've just been given a core 2 duo macbook, an ubuntu running HP laptop and an iPad
<arsen> niceee
<daftykins> well not given given :D
<daftykins> but to transfer data from ubuntu to the MBP, then get the pics doing their iCloud magic
<arsen> tempted to buy an ipad mini in a week or so, i miss my old ipad but it was uncomfortably heavy for reading
<daftykins> haha you should try my HP Touchpad - you need a robot arm to hold that thing up
<arsen> but i'll be back on a MBP very shortly, i just kinda want my laptop to hold out as my infront-of-the-tv device.
<arsen> would be awesome for it to not break itself, this seems to be a regular with ubuntu :/ lol.
 * penguin42 did spend a while gawping at a Samsung 12.2" protab in the shop the other day - it's a glorious display; fortunately I'm too tight to buy it
<arsen> im in the US for a few weeks, ipad mini is some stupid percentage cheaper there
<daftykins> lol 723 updates available
<daftykins> she wasn't kidding when she said she doesn't do updates
<daftykins> penguin42: :D
<arsen> sneaky suspicion my laptop has been updated and sat without reboot for a while, causing this problem im suffering. would be nice if there was a "undo last update" command
<daftykins> are you getting wallpaper+mouse pointer then nothing else of your DE?
<arsen> black screen, cursor, nothing else.
<arsen> interestingly, i discovered the other day my friend works for canonical @:o
<arsen> so, nvidia/xserver/driver reinstall doesnt do anything to fix. hmph
<daftykins> can you get to a TTY?
<arsen> yessir
<daftykins> install pastebinit and "pastebinit /var/log/Xorg.0.log" :O
<arsen> ooh clever.
<arsen> i think in my new job im gona be here a lot more :)
<daftykins> though you might have to be on wired i guess, as command line wireless would be a pain
<arsen> once settled in you should visit when you're about.
<daftykins> :D sounds good
<daftykins> i could always use a stone closer to London as an excuse to help visit a certain lady friend in the area ;)
<daftykins> shame the boss doesn't have his place anymore, that was handy
<arsen> well, im still working in the city, but i live earlsfield way these days. new job is in a fancy new office :)
<arsen> http://paste.ubuntu.com/7843584/
<daftykins> no more cycle commute? :O
<arsen> yeah i cycle every day still - doesnt stop my gut growing though xD
<arsen> ~16miles a day
<daftykins> 103 - [    10.740] (WW) Warning, couldn't open module nvidia
<arsen> yeah just installing that again, will re-run/test
<daftykins> looks like it's put a new kernel on perhaps and not generated the module for it
<arsen> correct, my bad though, rather than ubuntus. was broken irrespective of that :D
<daftykins> ^_^ is it really an nvidia-only laptop, or a funky intel on-die and nvidia chip hybrid - aka nvidia optimus?
<arsen> i believe it's nvidia - 8400M GS i think.
<daftykins> ooh ok old school
<arsen> yeah its a .. well, its crap. i just found it in a cupboard and it has been my sofa-friend for a year now :(
<arsen> still miss my old mac air 11, but new job gives me a new mac pro, so that'l make me happy again.
<arsen> royally screwed it now xD
<daftykins> :O
<daftykins> ugh why is the Finder refusing to copy this persons pics from my NTFS formatted external HDD
<daftykins> 'item already exists with name' - no it doesn't!
<arsen> http://paste.ubuntu.com/7843637/
<funkyHat> Use rsync
<arsen> that is strange, daftykins
<daftykins> man this thing still has a 160GB mechanical HDD, nasty
<arsen> i think mine does too.
<daftykins> :D
<arsen> someone pointed out an old small ibm to me the other day -found them on ebay cheapo. looks nice.
<maps|wrk> hi all
<daftykins> heya
<maps|wrk> aha dafty
<diddledan> ello
<maps|wrk> maybe you can help
<maps|wrk> :D
<arsen> hihi
<daftykins> ah yes native rsync, now to remember the basic syntax to do this file copy
<maps|wrk> quite annoying , i got strongswan working using cert + key and XAUTH password right - but its DOING THE SAME THING when my phone locks it loses VPN connection and doesnt auto reconnect
<maps|wrk> i want it to stay perm connected or reconnect
<arsen> lenovo x220 it was. not bad for the cash.
<maps|wrk> this is the same issue i had with openvpn:(
<arsen> it dies when you LOCK the phone, or when it times out?
<maps|wrk> well, it seems that when the phone auto locks it kills the connection?
<arsen> android?
<maps|wrk> ive turned auto lock to never to see what happens
<maps|wrk> nope iOS
<arsen> which client?
<maps|wrk> and i had the exact same issue with openVPN which was why i switched to strongswan
<daftykins> maybe it's an Apple regression / thing
<maps|wrk> using ios inbuilt vpn connection
<arsen> i think its the wifi thats the problem then - doesnt wifi turn off when phone locks?
<arsen> but presumably it'd reconnect on unlock :s
<maps|wrk> nah this is on 3g
<maps|wrk> and it doesnt reconnect when you unlock
<maps|wrk> ive left it unlocked and just seeing if it keeps connection
<maps|wrk> but does anyone have any ideas what could be causing this; and how to rectify it, anything,
<daftykins> funkyHat: thanks for that... seems to be chugging along, odd that it trips up with a graphical copy!
<maps|wrk> ive enabled mobike mobike=yes in ipsec.conf
<maps|wrk> cant see anything i can do server side to fix this
<funkyHat> daftykins: np :) OSX's rsync is *slightly* incompatible with GNU rsync so I brew install it but that won't affect you for a local copy obviously
<daftykins> weirdly rsync is echoing a path to me that's not visible in Finder
<funkyHat> I think calling it gnu rsync is nonsense actually...
<daftykins> Mavericks seems to have obfuscated any kind of "show hidden files" option? :)
<funkyHat> Yeah, there isn't one as far as I know
<maps|wrk> so now with the phone with no auto locks..vpn staying connected
<daftykins> maps|wrk: i don't have the slightest clue with that one i'm afraid, no experience with VPNs, limited Apple use and so on
<diddledan> hmm, how did that end up in my spambox? Qasly Rmutr wants to transact with me a small nest egg of 23.2trillion US Dollars
<arsen> nice.
<funkyHat> diddledan: good job you spotted it!
<diddledan> he wrote it as US$23200000.00Million, however
<daftykins> that's a lot of dorrah
<diddledan> hans brix would be proud, as would kim jong il
<diddledan> in other news, is anyone else so ronery?
<arsen> hm, so bumblebee also gives blackscreen/cursor
<arsen> whaaaaaat
<maps|wrk> have you got an android device daftykins ?
<daftykins> yep
<maps|wrk> hm#
<daftykins> arsen: don't think you're running optimus tech to make use of bumblebee though sir, if i were you i'd "apt-get remove --purge nvidia*" to hopefully revert to nouveau then see how that goes
<maps|wrk> care to try my vpn on your droid whenm you have a sec? just to see if it works right on yours
<maps|wrk> when locking etc
<daftykins> arsen: if you could "lspci | pastebinit" that'd help confirm that's an nvidia only graphics setup we're dealing with :>
<daftykins> maps|wrk: yeah i've got a spare i could fiddle with, though yeah think i'm gonna do food first :D
<daftykins> forgotten the time as always O_O
<maps|wrk> wicked
<maps|wrk> thanks mate, m essage me when you got the time:D cheers
<daftykins> will do!
<daftykins> ugh rsync warning: some files vanished before they could be transferred
<penguin42> you didn't want them anyway
<daftykins> lol
<arsen> http://paste.ubuntu.com/7843716/
<daftykins> destination size is actually larger than the source, more files too O_O
<daftykins> i'm gonna call that a success.
<arsen> wonder if the old 173 driver works
<daftykins> arsen: yeah for something that old i'd stick to nouveau sir, purge that nvidia* !
<daftykins> i'm getting really irritated by my das keyboard dropping 's - that's right, o's
<arsen> i gots a filco :o
<funkyHat> daftykins: run it again with --delete to make them the same size
<daftykins> ooo <-- meant to be 5
<penguin42> daftykins: It just drops them?
<daftykins> penguin42: yeah i have t hit the key a few times t get an o =|
<daftykins> as you can see from that sentence >_<
 * penguin42 uses Model M's - but I do feel it occasionally loses a character but it's difficult to tell if that's just my fast but chaotic typing
<penguin42> daftykins: oh
<daftykins> :D i did clean it up and it resolved my issues with dropped s's, a's and e's
<penguin42> daftykins: It sounds like you've got a duff o key then
<funkyHat> Usually when one of my keys doesn't work properly I just need to press it really hard to dislodge the crumb that's stuck under it
<penguin42> daftykins: Is it a membrane job?
<diddledan> insane in the membrane
<diddledan> :-p
<arsen> i thought DAs was a mechcanical keyboard?: o
<daftykins> penguin42: the das is a blue cherry switch mechanical
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/rpfqi4xz9nxgx5j/AACAxEkpRRGQQnM2Lruz1Sira
<penguin42> daftykins: It sounds like you broke your cherry
<arsen> WAHEY
<arsen> guest account works
 * arsen removes monitors.xml
<penguin42> daftykins: either that or maybe solder problems on the bottom of the key?
<directhex> penguin42: ibm model m has a shitty controller, with very little key rollover. i'd expect lost characters
<daftykins> arsen: which 'buntu is on thar?
<arsen> 13.10
<daftykins> and standard unity job?
<daftykins> sir you're EOL! :)
<arsen> neg, flashback
<penguin42> directhex: It probably doesn't help that it's a PS/2-usb controller as well
<daftykins> i'd rather PS/2 native \o/
<penguin42> actually, thinking about it - it IS PS/2 native today - native on my home machine, converter when I run it on my work laptop
<funkyHat> Girlfriend and her guest are watching the opening ceremony. Seriously cringey
<arsen> and yeah, EOL daftykins :( wasnt expecting it to just die on me though :D
<daftykins> hehe
<maps|wrk> ceremony of what
<funkyHat> Commonwealth Games
<maps|wrk> oh
<funkyHat> I was totally unaware it was even on
<daftykins> funkyHat: this really is quirky, --delete tells me 3 "file has vanished" and yet i don't see them listed in Finder on the source external disk. i have no idea how they can disappear XD
<arsen> wish i had tried that earlier
<daftykins> it's also now tripped up on an IO error 0
<daftykins> 0o
<arsen> so my guest account works fine, my user gives me a black screen. probably isnt nvidia xD
<daftykins> confound you 'o'!
<diddledan> daftykins: have you tried in the terminal?
<daftykins> arsen: yeah silly me, i dove straight past that you were making it to X fine
<penguin42> oh that's weird
<arsen> Fact - Jason Statham was a diver in the 1990 commonwealth games.
<penguin42> Virgin have just sent me a thing saying now you're on faster broadband why not change your wifi password to make it easier to share
<diddledan> lol
<daftykins> diddledan: viewing? yep just confirmed they don't show up
 * SuperEngineer is confuse. if I ask rythymbox to open a converted cassette to mp3 file it wants to download 20Mb og i386 addons#!
<daftykins> penguin42: perhaps you should change it to your house name/number ;)
<funkyHat> daftykins: I have vague suspicions that OSX's filesystem support outside of HFS is more flakey than they let on
 * SuperEngineer is on a 64 bit machine - & VLC deals with the files AOK
<daftykins> funkyHat: :D copying via NTFS was probably not wise
<arsen> which ntfs driver do you have daftykins ?
<daftykins> well this is just the clients' macbook
<funkyHat> I'm thinking about trying UFS when I get a new USB hard drive
<daftykins> so stock mavericks
<arsen> i used to use osx/ntfs extensively  (definitely rsyncing etc), never had issues
<arsen> ah. hm.
<diddledan> daftykins: if the files are there then rsync will try to copy. if they're not then it won't - finder will hide certain files such as those beginning with a .
<arsen> does NTFS-3G still work?
<diddledan> arsen: no
<arsen> arh :<
<SuperEngineer> ...& why aren't y'all listening to UUPC podcast? ;)
<diddledan> SuperEngineer: link?
<daftykins> this MBP is really ramping up the fans
 * funkyHat doesn't do podcasts really
<SuperEngineer> diddledan: #uupc
<SuperEngineer> [the rest is in the /title
<diddledan> I can listen via irc?!
<arsen> http://podcast.ubuntu-uk.org:8000/uupc.mp3 -< is what i found
<daftykins> arsen: apologies for the misleading approach anywho! i think that xsession errors file might be more handy for what's up with your account, although these guys will be able to advise better since i don't even use desktop 'buntu
<SuperEngineer> thnks arsen
<arsen> nps
<arsen> daftykins  - no probs, you arent expected to immediately solve all problems :p
<arsen> i rarely touch anything desktopy in the linux world, aside from my TV laptop.
<daftykins> hehe
<arsen> well, as in - i dont do anything other than use it for SA tasks, and work = centos, sadly.
<daftykins> i sense this macbooks vents need a clean
 * directhex now has a MBP
<daftykins> ooh-err CentOS
<daftykins> directhex: choice?!
<arsen> ooh directhex - is that your first?
<directhex> daftykins: sort of. everyone at the company has apple laptops, and it's generally very useful to have similar tech to your co-workers, for access to things like spare chargers
 * funkyHat has rMBP. Feels dirty.
<directhex> Linux marceline 3.13.0-24-generic #46-Ubuntu SMP Thu Apr 10 19:11:08 UTC 2014 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux
<daftykins> directhex: very true
<arsen> these days lots of smart people use apple stuff, so life as a sysadmin with a mac isnt as terrible an idea as it once may have been.
<directhex> i'm not a sysadmin any more
<directhex> i'm an engineer
<arsen> what are you engineering? i think my job title involved 'engineer', i tend to build stuff rather than monitor it.
 * penguin42 hands directhex an oily spanner
<funkyHat> My job title says 'Engineer' too
<daftykins> whoa, is this actually standard? this MBP has a kind of "flip latch" on the underside that popped open the HDD+battery compartment
 * SuperEngineer says =1
<SuperEngineer> +1
<arsen> crazy - a mac that lets you open it?!
<funkyHat> daftykins: I think so on some of the older ones yes
 * SuperEngineer is an engineer - [bet you'd never have guessed from the nick] but for me ... Brunell was an Enginner - not me
<funkyHat> Also removable RAM? Lucky ;P
<SuperEngineer> *Engineer
<directhex> webcam no worky on linux :(
<diddledan> directhex: you need to pull the firmware out of os x
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: For some reason I now have an image of you in a big tall hat
<directhex> diddledan: not on macbookpro11,x
<directhex> diddledan: not supported, full stop
<diddledan> oh :-(
<daftykins> oh yeah, there we go - typical totally clogged carpet between fan + heatpipe assembly
<daftykins> best take pics so i can charge accordingly :P
<funkyHat> directhex: is that the newer retina one?
<directhex> yeah
<SuperEngineer> penguin42: yup - that's a compliment! I'll try it tomorrow & see how the customers react ;)
<directhex> latest model
<arsen> eugh - any ideas what config files would cause my flashback DE to fail to start.. works fine via guest user.
<foobarry> the internet loves popey
<foobarry> was googling a resizefs question http://www.redhat.com/archives/ext3-users/2011-June/msg00015.html
<foobarry> top 5 hit
<foobarry> if i resize (shrink) a 3tb volume by 50GB, but there's only 20gb of files on it, will it still take ages?
<funkyHat> foobarry: which filesystem?
<foobarry> ext4
<funkyHat> (The answer is 'probably yes' in any case, 'definitely yes' if NTFS)
<foobarry> bah
<foobarry> i've got some work to do this w/end
<foobarry> all because i thought installing to usb would work ok
<penguin42> foobarry: I doubt it'd take that long if it's that empty
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/o8odygjph6tllc7/AABh0O7GXpP7tj5QzdEugX1ka
<daftykins> typical dust buildup :>
<foobarry> i'll backup and try it first
<foobarry> now i have to resize my data partition and install OS onto disk
<foobarry> 2 options: SW RAID the OS
<foobarry> or install the OS onto spare 20GB disk and dd it as a nackup
<funkyHat> Yes. Do both
<funkyHat> (except use some proper imaging tool rather than dd)
<arsen> lovely, daftykins !
<daftykins> arsen: glad at least the MBPs are easy to work on :)
<arsen> surprised it was that easyt to open! new gen mbp?
<daftykins> ancient this one, core 2 duo
<daftykins> 'tis a 5,1
<arsen> seriously - why am i listening to this UUPC podcast.. i don't get the desire to inject 1940s wartime music into linux podcasts.
<Laney> how about you consider turning it off
<directhex> arsen: it's free.
<arsen> i did, Laney.
<Laney> great success
<directhex> arsen: 1940s wartime music is out of copyright, so can be used for musical bridges without paying a license fee
<arsen> partly why i put it on, directhex - interesting discussion. however this is a long music bridge...
<arsen> hm, havent listened to linuxoutlaws for a while.
<Myrtti> my solution is to not listen to any techie podcasts
<arsen> some are tollerable, Myrtti :D
<Myrtti> most of them are too long for my attention span
<Laney> huh, it got mostly dark
<Laney> should move inside
<arsen> Ok - so i get a blackscreen/cursor post login via lightdm, irrespective of xfce/gnomeflashback etc, but only on my user, guest account is fine. :/
<daftykins> look into that xsessionerrors file sir
<daftykins> i think it lives as a hidden in your ~
<arsen> yeah not many clues
<daftykins> :(
<arsen> "dbus pre-start process terminated with status 2"
<arsen> the only error
<daftykins> diddledan's your man ;)
 * arsen looks into .cache/upstart
 * daftykins goes to eat
<arsen> fixe.d
<arsen> !
<arsen> well that was ..fun. thanks upstart.
<arsen> permissions on files inside ~/.cache/upstart lacking +x, don't get why that would be.
<arsen> maybe i should now break it again with a dist-upgrade
<penguin42> why should they have +x ?
<penguin42> if they're not executable
<maps|wrk> :D
<arsen> penguin42  - folder had 0600, should of been 0700 apparently. moved out the way, rebooted, cache was recreated with 0700
<maps|wrk> what tio do
<maps|wrk> dafty
<maps|wrk> :D
<daftykins> maps|wrk: o/
<daftykins> maps|wrk: so any word on whether there's an app client for android, or?
<maps|wrk> ah sorry didnt see
<maps|wrk> ja
<maps|wrk> there is
<maps|wrk> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.strongswan.android
<maps|wrk> :D
<arsen> wow, dist upgrade is system heavy
<maps|wrk> :D
<daftykins> winnar
<arsen> i could coook my bacon lardons on my cpu right now
<daftykins> arsen: how d'you mean? load or download size?
<daftykins> oic
<daftykins> haha
<arsen> sadly i already had a crap cheese sandwich
<arsen> my 60meg internet seemed to demolish the downloads pretty quickly, but the system load is ... well, irc is hard work right now
<daftykins> maps|wrk: alright just got my spare messabout device on charge, so will give you a prod once it's up and installed
<maps|wrk> ta
 * arsen wants to buy a 911 GT3 :<
<arsen> (and somehow install ubuntu on it?!?)
<daftykins> lol
<daftykins> wouldn't be surprised if Canonical tries to get in on the new in-car scene Apple and Google are going for ;)
<arsen> yeah an ex colleague is now the finance manager in the canonical office :o
<arsen> or something like that.
<arsen> linkedin always turns up surprises.
<daftykins> haha
<daftykins> reminds me, i wonder what the old girl decided to waste my time with on facebook this time
<daftykins> she thinks the best way to point you to something is put your name in, so then the email comes through with absolutely no reference to what it's about
<arsen> xD
<daftykins> parents - know your limits!
<arsen> any plans to be over on the mainland?
<daftykins> i do have a mate intending to do a house move from the Kensington and Chelsea area apparently, down toward Lewes (near Brighton) but he's not been in touch
<arsen> ah
<arsen> im watching some wtf TV.. "Breaking the faith" .. about FLDS escaping kids..
<daftykins> 0o
<daftykins> i have a Thunderbirds episode on XD
<daftykins> so trying to train my cat up with this new electronic flap is head-against-wall bashingly challenging
<arsen> lol
<daftykins> she sits 18 inches from it looking through the clear kitchen window going "wat"
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/rswy13k3ohu7206/IMG_20140720_122618.jpg
<daftykins> "what do you mean you held it open for me on the way out so i should know i can come back in too!?"
<arsen> lol
<arsen> oh joy. laptop is back - but upgrade stayed
<maps|wrk> did it install?
<arsen> stayed? failed..
<arsen> now its rolling back :<
<diddledan> ouch
<diddledan> can ubuntu rollback a failed upgrade safely?
<arsen> who knows.
<arsen> thats what it said it was going to do..looking at the output it looks more like it's finishing the install
<arsen> this could be fun.
<diddledan> I can't say I've ever witnessed such an event - many moons ago it just failed and left it there
<diddledan> I haven't had a failed upgrade in a long time
<daftykins> "dear diddledan, i broke things... have left for you to clean up, much amuse! - Ubuntu.
<diddledan> do-release-upgrade or the gui tend to get it right for me
<daftykins> "
<arsen> yeah im using the gui.
<arsen> followed the documentation, figured dist-upgrade is probably a thing of the past.
<maps|wrk> daftykins:  ?:D
<penguin42> arsen: generally it's do-release-upgrade these days - it pulls in some separate fixes
<arsen> hm, it says the upgrade completed but there were some errors.
<diddledan> that sounds scary
<diddledan> "dear arsen, I broke things, but I don't know what.. have left for you to clean up, much amuse! - Ubuntu"
<arsen> pretty much.
<penguin42> arsen: Any particular errors?
<maps|wrk> ;[
<daftykins> maps|wrk: phone still sat over there, will look
<daftykins> i always use dist-upgrade \o/
<arsen> anywhere they'd be logged penguin42 ?
 * arsen looks
<penguin42> arsen: well, probably /var/log/dist-upgrade maybe but I bet some of the other places in there
<penguin42> arsen: Generally speaking it's best to remember error messages
<arsen> :D
<arsen> tbh as it claimed it was going to revert, i didnt pay much attention
<maps|wrk> thanks :D
<penguin42> arsen: In that case perhaps it has and you'll hit reset and find yourself still in the current version
<arsen> :D
<arsen> worth a go
<maps|wrk> let me kow when done daftykins  thanks
<arsen> can always pull files off here i guess.
<arsen> brb, lets gamble.
<penguin42> arsen: It was nice knowing you
<arsen> ooh
<arsen> :D
<arsen> it claims 14.04 :D
<arsen> ok, i've got a lovely fade-in effect on windows, that struggles to render.. best turn that off
<arsen> my screen looks sharper. hm.
<diddledan> arsen: the upgrader downloaded some extra pixies to add to the ones already inside your monitor
<arsen> yeah, ubuntu-pixel-injector
<diddledan> more pixies = more time to paint sharp edges
<arsen> graet package.
<daftykins> maps|wrk: plugged into lappy to charge \o/ got strongswan installed
<daftykins> gotta setup a profile hmm
<arsen> long time since i used strongswan :D
<daftykins> maps|wrk: apparently i have to enter a gateway, user + pass
<daftykins> yeah maps wanted to fiddle with it so i offered to be the client ^_^
<diddledan> daftykins: quickest and easiest hack evar
<daftykins> diddledan: hmm?
<daftykins> aww yeah debut of Thunderbird 3 \o/
<daftykins> what a nerd i am.
<daftykins> but these 60s shows are so good XD
<diddledan> daftykins: convincing maps|wrk to let you penetrate his network without touching any code
<daftykins> ;)
<maps|wrk> aha ok
<maps|wrk> but wait
<diddledan> daftykins: you're out of date we're on 31 now: https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/thunderbird/
<diddledan> :-p
<diddledan> </troll>
<daftykins> ;p;
<daftykins> lol too
<arsen> i watched an episode of the simpsons earlier
<arsen> Marge basically raped Homer
 * penguin42 wonders if arsen lives in the same multiverse as the rest of us
<arsen> she became a body builder and forced him .. the next scene was him the morning after looking like a victim
<arsen> pretty funny
<arsen> needless to say, dont do a google video search for that. trust me.
<daftykins> arsen: got this old HTC One X+ nvidia tegra3 device from my mum, unlocked the bootloader via HTC and put cyanogenmod on, damn does it fly now compared to all that HTC tosh :D
<arsen> oo
<arsen> nice.
#ubuntu-uk 2014-07-24
<daftykins> cyanogenmod's charging animation is so cool
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/dyy49wnasakd4ad/cm-screen-charge.png
<daftykins> it's the % represented by a pie-chart ring, which rotates around :D
<penguin42> yeh there are a load of different settings I think - which CM are you on?
<daftykins> it's the milestone 4 release of v11, built 8th March for this older HTC One X+ of my mums
<daftykins> rather than nightlies, when i was fiddling i chose to go with the latest milestone release :>
<penguin42> yeh I want to update to 11 of my phone
<penguin42> hmm, what version did I put on this nook; the poor things battery is very very confused
<penguin42> charge_now 1974000, charge_full 1513000
<daftykins> hahaha
<penguin42> cm thinks it has less than 1% of battery life  - who knows
<penguin42> ah yes, it's on 10.2.1 and the auto-update thing is failing when it reboots to install
<mapps> hey all
<MooDoo> morning all
<mapps> morning MooDoo
<Gargoyle> mornin'
<mapps> sup all
<diplo> morning all
<mapps> watching suits
<mapps> :D
<mapps> rachel = super hot
<MooDoo> mapps: prefer donna :D
<mapps> :D
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<MooDoo> morning brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo
<SuperMatt> Choo choo!
<SuperMatt> I don't know why I said that
<SuperMatt> but I did
<MooDoo> SuperMatt: you didn't complete it with chuffa chuffa
<MooDoo> wooowoooooo
<brobostigon> weeeeeweeeeeweeeeeee
<Myrtti> whee new irssi â¥ https://www.flickr.com/photos/myrtti/14728269061/
<MooDoo> hehe
<MooDoo> Myrtti: how many channels? lol
<Myrtti> 23
<MooDoo> lol
<Myrtti> that's pretty low for a staffer
<MooDoo> ah of course
<SuperMatt> when you say new irssi, do you mean there's a new version, or you've skinned it in a funky way?
<Myrtti> new version as per you can see on top of the irssi window.
<SuperMatt> yes indeed, does that come with the new look?
<Myrtti> I'm not sure if there are any themes yet that support the extended colours yet
<Myrtti> but splitlong is no longer needed
<SuperMatt> so it's an entirely new look for irssi
<SuperMatt> interesting
<Myrtti> no, not really
<SuperMatt> oh
<Myrtti> that cow is a test to see if the colours would work inside irssi
<foobarry> i use nickcolor in irssi
<Myrtti> yeah so do I, I'm not sure if there already is a version that would support more colours
<Myrtti> it would certainly be useful
<foobarry> weechat is similar and supposed to be good
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Tell An Old Joke Day! :-D
<MooDoo> morning
<MooDoo> shakespear walks into a bar, barman shouts get out your bard.....
<MooDoo> old enough?
<JamesTait> A man walks into a bar. "Ouch!" he said.  It was an iron bar.
<davmor2> morning all
<MooDoo> morning davmor2
<JamesTait> davmor2, o/
<davmor2> burglar breaks into a house, shines his light around and hears a voice "Jesus is watching you!", guy freezes turns off the torch, but nothing happens, he turns the torch back on shines it around again and hears "Jesus punishes bad people", the guy shines his torch in the direction of the voice and spots a parrot, "Was that you", "Yes" says the parrot, "You're clever what's your name", "Moses", "Who calls a parrot Moses", "Same people who call t
<davmor2> heir rottweiler Jesus"
<MooDoo> lol
<davmor2> JamesTait: one old joke for you
<MooDoo> davmor2: you're an old joke yourself aren't you?????? lol haha ;)
<davmor2> MooDoo: Still not as old as you and popey :P
<JamesTait> Very good, davmor2. :)
<davmor2> JamesTait: it's also the cleanest joke I know :D
<MooDoo> davmor2: touche!
<davmor2> MooDoo: you are welcome ;)
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<bigcalm> Who here likes GIT?
<bigcalm> I've just merged a branch and it's said that 2 changes were made to one file:
<bigcalm>  codebase/htdocs/app/models/booking.php |    2 +-
<bigcalm> How do I find out what those changes were?
<diplo> git diff booking.php ?
<diplo> Ah how about git whatchanged
<bigcalm> git diff : nothing
<bigcalm> git whatchanged : commit log messages
<bigcalm> I need to see the code differences
<bigcalm> Aha
<bigcalm> I can do git diff origin/test
<bigcalm> Thank you, rubber ducky
<davmor2> bigcalm: I like you and you're a git does that count ;)
 * bigcalm kippers davmor2
<davmor2> bigcalm: is that a no?
<bigcalm> davmor2: guessing you were a little tired last night. Me, Ron, Ad, Simon & Sam was the complete party
<davmor2> bigcalm: I knocked off at 10:50 I figured it might be too late to walk up at that time
<bigcalm> davmor2: I had left by 21:30
<bigcalm> My yawning was getting in the way of chatting
<davmor2> bigcalm: yeah so no point then :D
<bigcalm> I do enjoy programmerexcuses.com
<bigcalm> "It's an unexpected emergent behaviour of several last minute abstractions"
<davmor2> bigcalm: or codswallop as it is otherwise known
<bigcalm> 14.04.1 - out in August do you thing?
<bigcalm> thing/think
<bigcalm> My printer sounds as though it's about to take off
<bigcalm> Damn thing must be hot
<bigcalm> Considering that it's 28.8C in here, not too surprised
<DJones> bigcalm: 14.04.1 is showing up as available when I ssh to my server as of this morning
<MooDoo> lsb_release -a
<MooDoo> oops lol
<MooDoo> Ubuntu 14.04.1 LTS
<MooDoo> yup me too
<davmor2> bigcalm: Thursday most likely
<DJones> I just don't think the iso's are available yet (or maybe just syncing on the servers)
<bigcalm> My 12.04 server hasn't suggested I upgrade to 14.04.1
<DJones> Ah, actuallyy just checked, I've misread it, its the HWE warning & suggestion to upgrade to 14.04
<davmor2> bigcalm: that's cause it isn't released yet, probably be out on THURSDAY!!!!
<bigcalm> davmor2: indeed, thanks
<bigcalm> davmor2: My statement was more for DJones
<davmor2> bigcalm: I let you off then don't do it again ;)
<bigcalm> Tsk
<davmor2> bigcalm: you'll be able to play with apt rather than apt-get too :D
<bigcalm> Aww, I'm used to apt-get
<bigcalm> Fear change
<MooDoo> +1
<bigcalm> Is Debian moving to apt as well?
<davmor2> bigcalm: but apt is nice
<MooDoo> I honestly can say I've never used it
<davmor2> bigcalm: you get progress bar on installs, search is awesome, show is like policy only better, list is great fun
<davmor2> MooDoo: try it out
<davmor2> bigcalm: yes it's apt 1.0 so it's not feature complete, but it is stable.  They need to add autocomplete and then it really is good
<bashrc> is there a difference between apt and apt-get?
<davmor2> bashrc: yes
<bigcalm> 4 chars
<bashrc> I suppose it is less typing
<davmor2> bashrc: no it's more currently till autocomplete works :)
<bashrc> does apt actually stand for anything?
 * penguin42 never understood why there was an apt-get and an apt-cache
<foobarry> they fixed that in the latest penguin42
<bashrc> me neither
<foobarry> its short for aptitude
<foobarry> which is the debian app from yesteryaer
<bashrc> I liked aptitude
<foobarry> i remember using dselect to install stuff
<davmor2> bashrc: apt 1.0 is meant to be more like aptitude command line, so rather than having to deal with dpkg, apt-get and apt-cache fo most basic stuff you can just use apt
<foobarry> yum localinstall is mega useful
<foobarry> installs a rpm but pulls in deps
<bashrc> ah, that would make more sense.  A bit like yum
<bashrc> yum install, yum search...
<davmor2> foobarry: apt isn't short for aptitude, apt was there long before aptitude.  Apt is Advanced Package Tool, aptitude came along latter and needed a name to say it was apt + some
<foobarry> i stand corrected and informed
<davmor2> foobarry: Apt is to dpkg what yum is to rpm effectively
<foobarry> synaptic too
<foobarry> that was uggly
<foobarry> uuuuuuuuuuuuuugly
<foobarry> but faster than software centre,
<davmor2> foobarry: well that was just a gui tool to face apt
<foobarry> indeedy
<davmor2> foobarry: new click store is way faster
<foobarry> the what?
<diddledan> morning
<Azelphur> I did this yesterday, http://pastebin.com/QDVNg05V XD
<diddledan> o_O
<diddledan> I'm not sure what that alludes to
<Azelphur> diddledan: guy posts phishing website -> I attack it and its down 4 minutes later
<diddledan> aah
<diddledan> what did you attack it wiht?
<Azelphur> diddledan: a python script I crafted for attacking phishing websites, it sends a continual stream of randomly generated credentials
<diddledan> hah
<Azelphur> the idea being that any useful credentials are buried in a sea of randomly generated crap
<diddledan> I like
<Azelphur> :)
<diplo> Azelphur, is it still down today ?
<foobarry> why not tell the ISP?
<foobarry> or DNS hosting
<mapps> hi all
<mapps> so hot again
<Azelphur> diplo: yea
<foobarry> i wouldn't know
<foobarry> windowless basement dweller
<Myrtti> Azelphur: was this in channel or pm?
<Azelphur> Myrtti: in channel
<mapps> so hard to sleep with this heat
<Azelphur> mapps: indeed :(
<foobarry> Myrtti will slap them
<Azelphur> mapps: it doesn't help that I have a building site next door to me, and that they seem to be intent on starting at about 7am in the morning
<foobarry> throw some bitcoins at them
<daftykins> XD i really enjoy Azelphur's evil genius side
<Azelphur> hehe
<mapps> :(
<mapps> im near a cut through road
<mapps> not main but busy enough so i cant open my windows
<daftykins> http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/07/10/hooverman.gif
<daftykins> SFW
<daftykins> no idea why that one's doing the rounds but hey, it's slightly amusing
<Myrtti> https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=rpeCvBvTkpw#t=66
<Myrtti> that's why
<daftykins> did you think i didn't get the reference?
<foobarry> eww https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/SoftwareRAID Note: This page is about Ubuntu 9.10. It may not apply to newer versions anymore.
<foobarry> top link on the GOOG
<directhex> software raid /o\
<daftykins> foobarry: you can write the new one! ;)
<foobarry> one of the worst pages i've found
<foobarry> Note: Be aware of the fragile state of RAID support in Ubuntu and what it takes to get a reliable raid setup (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReliableRaid). However most of the bugs has been fixed since Ubuntu 8.10.
<Myrtti> oh, right, misread
<Myrtti> I blame lack of lunch
 * daftykins pushes Myrtti toward the kitchen
<daftykins> 'bugs has been'
<daftykins> Â¬_Â¬
<diddledan> Myrtti is making food?
<diddledan> I'll take one
<daftykins> one of your finest foods, please
<diddledan> :-D
<foobarry> i've retired from coding but i can document ..
<foobarry> oh no i can't
<foobarry> Internal Server Error
<foobarry> The server encountered an internal error or misconfiguration and was unable to complete your request.
<foobarry> Please contact the server administrator, [no address given] and inform them of the time the error occurred, and anything you might have done that may have caused the error.
<daftykins> i bought lunch at M&S today, so pricey but so tasty
<foobarry> More information about this error may be available in the server error log.
<foobarry> so much fail
 * Myrtti got a pack of breakfast bars
<foobarry> directhex: was that you hiding under your hands /o\
<directhex> yes /o\
<foobarry> non enterprise hw raid sucks, and a lot of enterprise hw raid sucks too
<foobarry> sw raid is a bit sucky too
<bigcalm> But...
<foobarry> and btrfs isn't really mature enough to suck
<bigcalm> Everything is awesome!
<foobarry> yes
<diddledan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=StTqXEQ2l-Y
<foobarry> i have to reinstall my microserver this weekend
<foobarry> with 2 kids in the room
<Myrtti> https://flic.kr/p/os1XMV *sigh*
<diddledan> o_O
<Myrtti> ah, finally
<Myrtti> no, still unusable
<switchtehbeat> I'm alive
<bigcalm> Are you sure?
<directhex> nope, he died again
<directhex> hide yo' brains
<Myrtti> there we go
<daftykins> mapps: you can see my pic now! https://www.dropbox.com/s/gpy7ba1lrxcc86t/Screenshot_2014-07-24-01-19-17.png
<Myrtti> ah. Now I actually have something to look forward to in my trip to Finland for two weeks
<daftykins> what's that?
<Myrtti> I just rented a wooden woodfired outdoor bathtub for a week :-D
<Myrtti> bath barrel, whatever it is
<diddledan> hotub
<Myrtti> yeah.
<diddledan> hottub
<diddledan> with bubbles?
<diddledan> :-p
<Myrtti> no. Just a fire :-D
<Myrtti> http://paljupulju.fi/kylpykuva2.jpg
<daftykins> what will the surrounding weather be like at this time?
<daftykins> lol that's hilarious
<Myrtti> I don't care, I'd sit in it even if it were below 0
<daftykins> well i'm just curious is all
<Myrtti> I've been thinking and dreaming about it since February
<Myrtti> people actually do use them in the winter.
<Myrtti> Just put a hat on.
<Myrtti> but yeah, I'm flying in week from now on Friday
<maps|wrk> hi
 * penguin42 wonders if he should change the locale to EN_yk on his mailserver now that bytemark have moved it across the pennines
<diddledan> yk?
<penguin42> York
<diddledan> I'm not entirely sure that's a valid locale
<daftykins> Myrtti: i just generally wondered what the weather was like there, i had no comment on it being an issue to be cold and use one of those
<Myrtti> daftykins: it's 31CÂ° there now
<daftykins> ouch!
<daftykins> hmm single bay Synology DS112j NAS, add a 1TB WD Red HDD and that's Â£131.17, not bad at all
<daftykins> or move up to 2TB for Â£150.15
<mapps> :D
 * StevenR wonders when 14.04.1 will be released. Schedule says today... do-release-upgrade says nothing new
<mapps> :<
<penguin42> StevenR: Does it say which timezone?
#ubuntu-uk 2014-07-25
<mapps> morning
<Myrtti> morning
<mapps> gang related was good
<mapps> LD
<mapps> :D
<Myrtti> grocery store close to the university buildings where they hold an annual Roleplaying Convention in Finland advertises: https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xaf1/t1.0-9/10530719_10152334453113661_7916478887435041425_n.jpg
<mapps> a banana:D
<Myrtti> also it says on the bottom their _gates_ are open 24h
<Myrtti> oooh I just realised I have milk, so I can make coffee!
<diplo> Morning all
<SuperMatt> http://sysadminday.com/ loooool
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Friday, and happy SysAdmin Appreciation Day! :-D
<bashrc> top of the morning
<foobarry> \o/
<foobarry> what can i do with a bunch of xml results from an api call to make them look nice on a web page?
<foobarry> aha http://www.w3schools.com/xml/tryit.asp?filename=tryxml_display_table
<JamesTait> foobarry, apply xslt
<foobarry> thanks , i'll check it
<JamesTait> foobarry, I'm scouring my bookmarks, I think I have a link to a good reference and tutorial.
<foobarry> http://www.w3schools.com/xsl/xsl_transformation.asp looks ok
<JamesTait> foobarry, that'll just about cover it. :)
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<foobarry> argh ubuntu.iso doesn't fit on 1Gb usb stick
<SuperMatt> http://xkcd.com/705/
<SuperMatt> obligatory xkcd post for the day
<foobarry> worringly firefox shows the xml+xslt but chrome doesn't
<foobarry> ah, a "security geature"
<SuperMatt> gotta love those geatures
<davmor2> bigcalm: do an update on 12.04 you should be able to upgrade after that :)
<foobarry> hmm. i can't do stuff with <description>test</description> but if i have a line 		<status id="2" name="Open"/>
<foobarry> then the examples don't cover that :(
<xnox> i just made crispy bacon in the microwave oven.... this changes everything =)
<JamesTait> Mmmm, bacon.
<foobarry> been too scared to
<foobarry> what's the recipe?
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<bigcalm> davmor2: okay
<davmor2> MooDoo: I know how to fix your no work email issue, start your new job already :P
<foobarry> fixed my xml issues with the help of an internet stranger \o/
<davmor2> foobarry: or so you think, in reality he was a hacker who wanted access to your machine and you just invited him in ;)
<foobarry> i conversed over irc
<davmor2> foobarry: oh well that makes them saints obviously, cause nobody on irc would be cruel.......hunter2 :D
<davmor2> foobarry: I'm only teasing :)  Glad to hear you got it sorted, but now you are ever so slightly paranoid right ;)
<foobarry> he did ask me to type {}{}{}:)::(:(_:}{{}
<foobarry> if thats the forkbomb code then its a zillion to one chance
<davmor2> bigcalm: you'll appreciate this https://soundcloud.com/neilcic/mouthsilence
<bigcalm> What the hell?
<bigcalm> Very well done
<foobarry> what the heck was taht noise
<foobarry> its like an audio version of twitter
<davmor2> foobarry: just keep listening it gets weirder
<bigcalm> Aww, they censored the NIN track :(
<davmor2> bigcalm: you got to the LoveShack to the wrong music?
<bigcalm> 11:54 is where I'm at
<bigcalm> Having to stop-start due to work
<bigcalm> Now it's time for lunch!
<davmor2> bigcalm: booo
<bigcalm> bies
<diddledan> wtf am I listening to?
<davmor2> diddledan: is it melting your brain yet?
<diddledan> davmor2: I gave up
<davmor2> Wuss
<davmor2> this is works I have no idea how http://factsvillage.com/dancing-spiderman-gif/
<bigcalm> I could imagine deadpool dancing like that
<jpds> davmor2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wga5A6R9BJg
<Myrtti> if you didn't know already, apparently right now during ComicCon you can try out the Marvel archive thing for .99USD
<Myrtti> it's a subscription normally for a tenner
<diddledan> I think I need eyebleach after that video
<davmor2> jpds: you need help :D
<Myrtti> oh so that's where that one gif comes from
<foobarry> mark hamill looks like hes been living on a fishing boat for 30yrs
<jpds> davmor2: you were the one with the dance GIF.
<davmor2> jpds: only cause it landed in my inbox on google plus
<foobarry> trying to find something on the internet that i can only remember few details of.
<foobarry> short story, possibly true, about a guy who lost his job but just went into a spare office and persauded them he was the area manager now
<foobarry> ah, what a stroke of luck
<foobarry> https://sites.google.com/site/forgottenemployee/
<mapps> hey all
<daftykins> o/
<mapps> racing on mondayD
<mapps> last evening racing of the summer at uttoxeter
<mapps> hope its sunny
<diddledan> it's raining! :-o
<penguin42> no it's not
<mapps> shame the trains are so rubbish
<mapps> last train 21;07 last race 20;55
<mapps> probab;y have to miss last race:<
<diddledan> it's also thunderising
<davmor2> this made my friday http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/comedy/10985111/British-inventor-builds-giant-fart-machine-to-fire-at-France.html
<daftykins> mapps: did you see my link to the screenshot i took of android on the VPN? :>
<daftykins> foobarry: heh this tale is amusing so far
<foobarry> Myrtti: my wife is going to a yarn and spinning show tomorrow,
<Myrtti> ooherrr!
<foobarry> think its near bedford
<foobarry> http://www.fibre-east.co.uk/
<penguin42> not my type of fibre
<foobarry> i have fibre to the cupboard at home
<foobarry> and to the bedroom
<Myrtti> thank god I don't have drivers licence
<Myrtti> or a car
<foobarry> she will buy a kromksi wheel if its discounted
<foobarry> she borrowed one a month ago
<foobarry> and has been beavering away
<foobarry> looks right up your street this show
<foobarry> metaphorically
<foobarry> does mr Myrtti drive?
<Myrtti> I'm not sure I'd dare to ask him to waste his day there...
<daftykins> that's what trains are for
<brobostigon> chooochoooo
<daftykins> haha
<Myrtti> daftykins: I'm not going to waste 4hours in a train to get there and 4hours to get back, if the trip is 36miles by car.
<foobarry> than a half hour journey
<foobarry> 1hr round trip , mr Myrtti could do it
<daftykins> ah, car mentality.
<davmor2> Myrtti: fly you must have a local airport :D
<foobarry> train is good for point to pint
<penguin42> problem with airports is the hour of security queuing, and then you have to add another 30min-hour extra time just in case, and you end up having to turn up 2 hours before it's due, so it takes longer than the train journey
<daftykins> foobarry: haha, was that a genuine pub reference? :>
<foobarry> nope
<foobarry> accibeerindetall
<davmor2> JamesTait: Hey dude does that mean you were one of the fools on the dancefloor square dancing to Cotton Eye Joe?
<JamesTait> davmor2, doesn't sound like the kind of thing I'd do.
<davmor2> JamesTait: So that that's a yes but only after enough drink :D
<JamesTait> davmor2, maybe 20 years ago....
<davmor2> JamesTait: It would of been 20 years ago :P
<davmor2> JamesTait: 1994
 * JamesTait feels he's missed something important somewhere.
<davmor2> JamesTait: You were on about how Startrekking took you back to student days So it dawned on me you would party going night cluber in the early-mid 90's :)
<daftykins> http://www.ebuyer.com/517639-lenovo-iomega-ix2-2tb-2-bay-desktop-nas-70a69000ea
<JamesTait> davmor2, not Startrekking, the other one.  High state of Consciousness or whatever.
<daftykins> super cheap 2 x 1TB NAS there
<davmor2> JamesTait: oh yes
<davmor2> Josh wink higher state of consciousness
<JamesTait> I'm pretty sure I wasn't dancing to Cotton Eye Joe at Uni though.
<JamesTait> Only the 6th Form leaver's do.
<daftykins> ;)
<davmor2> hahaha
<davmor2> I knew you'd be dancing to it somewhere :D
<JamesTait> Possinly with my chemistry teacher.
<JamesTait> *Possibly
<davmor2> JamesTait: Please say she was a woman
<JamesTait> We were her first class.
<davmor2> JamesTait: ahhhhhhhhhhhhh
<JamesTait> She wasn't prepared for how gutted she'd feel that we were leaving.
<davmor2> hahaha
<JamesTait> She got very tearful at the end of the night, bless her.
<daftykins> heh
<davmor2> JamesTait: I'm currently listening to Robert miles Children
<daftykins> now there's a blast from the past, the ol' instrumental track
<JamesTait> davmor2, name rings a bell.  I remember the entire world going ga-ga over it.  Can't bring the song to mind, though, my brain keeps playing Tubular Bells.
<daftykins> :D quick piano work, was that one
<daftykins> or more keyboard, really
<JamesTait> davmor2, indeed.  :)
<JamesTait> daftykins, even.
<JamesTait> This heat is getting to me.
<davmor2> JamesTait: there was that and Mark snows X-files music at similar times
<daftykins> mmm, i woke up in a 27 deg C bedroom
<daftykins> not nice at all
<davmor2> daftykins: could of been worse, could of been a 72 deg C bedroom in which case the place is likely on fire
<daftykins> lol
<daftykins> i wonder if the cat would wake me in such a case
<davmor2> daftykins: no it would just leg it
<JamesTait> daftykins, it would wake you if it were hungry.
<daftykins> :D
<davmor2> oh moby extreme ways nice
<davmor2> I should hit shuffle on rhythmbox more often now into all along the watchtower :D
<daftykins> it's great until you go from really light, to really heavy
<daftykins> or it starts playing that thing you don't know because you've intended to get around to trying it but never quite did
<davmor2> daftykins: Most of my music is 70's 80's and early 90's with the odd bit from 2000's there is no such thing as too heavy ;)
<daftykins> i've been on the Black Sabbath, Led Zeppelin and so on a lot of late
<davmor2> oh dirty diana and now back in black
<diddledan> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=60eKauWFFPk
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/sdew7skkm4nqvtu/AAA0XrUF4J0Cd2pmw3lSCaZ6a
<daftykins> I've been operating on laptops again :)
<penguin42> ah yes, I think I see your problem, look closely at the right on image 12
<diddledan> yeah, it looks like it's got the vista defect
<daftykins> it's running ubuntu 12.04 :>
<daftykins> horrible, horrible design... LCD off to get the motherboard out
<mapps> urgh tpp hpt and sticky here
<penguin42> here as well
<mapps> its hard to feel like doing anything
<mapps> dont wanna sit at my pc..dont wanna watch tv
<mapps> lol
<daftykins> :D
<penguin42> sleep?
<daftykins> one cannot sleep in this! ;)
<mapps> pff
<mapps> man thats hard in this heat
<mapps> i wakeip 2-3x and hot as
<mapps> cant open windows too much traffic
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/x6t0sm44w12zssu/IMG_20140725_201133.jpg
<daftykins> ah much improved temps
<daftykins> hey mapps check out this surgery - ;) https://www.dropbox.com/sh/sdew7skkm4nqvtu/AAA0XrUF4J0Cd2pmw3lSCaZ6a
<foobarry> got a possible corrupted fs
<foobarry>  mount /dev/sdd1 /mnt/usb/
<foobarry> mount: you must specify the filesystem type
<foobarry> is there anything like e2fsck for ext4?
<foobarry> if indeed it is ext4 :S the label just say linux
<daftykins> do you not always specify the fs? i do
<daftykins> "mount -t ext4 /dev/sdd1 /mnt/usb"
 * penguin42 doesn't normally - it normally figures it out
<foobarry> mount -t ext4 /dev/sdd1 /mnt/usb
<foobarry> mount: wrong fs type, bad option, bad superblock on /dev/sdd1, missing codepage or helper program, or other error In some cases useful info is found in syslog - try dmesg | tail  or so
<foobarry> [ 3253.906616] EXT4-fs (sdd1): VFS: Can't find ext4 filesystem
<penguin42> foobarry: fsck should check it and run the ext4 fsck
<penguin42> foobarry: so just do fsck /dev/sdd1 - are you sure it's sdd1 ?
<foobarry> fsck.ext2: Superblock invalid, trying backup blocks...
<foobarry> fsck.ext2: Bad magic number in super-block while trying to open /dev/sdd1
<foobarry> The superblock could not be read or does not describe a valid ext2/ext3/ext4
<foobarry> /dev/sdd1            2048   156249999    78123976   83  Linux
<foobarry> it was working before i unmounted it and brought it home from work :(
<foobarry> e2fsck -b 32768 /dev/sdd1
<foobarry> e2fsck 1.42.9 (4-Feb-2014)
<foobarry> e2fsck: Bad magic number in super-block while trying to open /dev/sdd1
<foobarry> Partition Table: msdos
<foobarry> hmmm
<foobarry> nah that was not true
<penguin42> foobarry: Go back a step, check /proc/partitions to see what you think is your device is there and the right size
<foobarry> yep its there
<penguin42> damn, the simple things are always easier
<penguin42> foobarry: ok, does fdisk  onthe device show you what you expect
<foobarry> installing testdisk
<foobarry> and crying
<foobarry> *may not be crying
<penguin42> if it was a physically bad disk it would be moaning in the log
<foobarry> thats why i think corrupt fs
<foobarry> testdisk is listing the files!
<penguin42> what did you do to it last?
<foobarry> unmounted and put in my bag
<penguin42> oh well, if you're going to do dangerous things like that
<daftykins> XD
<foobarry> slaps penguin42 with a fish
<foobarry> strangely testdisk sees the partition and files
 * penguin42 grabs it
<daftykins> love this HP's ubuntu install
<daftykins> "723 packages can be updated"
<daftykins> "318 updates are security updates"
<penguin42> daftykins: We do get lots of updates
<daftykins> this person's never done one XD
<foobarry> thankyou Jesus and testdisk
<foobarry> \o/
<foobarry> 74G   56G   14G  81% /mnt/usb
<davmor2> daftykins: set it to autoupdate security updates
<foobarry> ther's a package for that
<foobarry> autocron?
<Myrtti> unattended-upgrades
<davmor2> foobarry: what Myrtti said
<foobarry> that it be
<daftykins> davmor2: it's being wiped
<daftykins> now i've fixed it, it's miiiiine
<daftykins> although it has a broken DVD drive
<davmor2> daftykins: back to windows vista then right?
<daftykins> ugh, i'd rather not install that :)
<daftykins> i'm not sure what to do with it, a 1.9GHz Athlon 64 X2 with 2GB RAM isn't all that
<Jay_> hi
<daftykins> hello
<davmor2> foobarry: or via http://davmor2.co.uk/~davmor2/screenshots-desktop/autoupdate.png
<davmor2> Damn Stairway to Heaven is a good track
<Jay_> does one of you guys know if there is a way to add a dummy option (one that will not be used by a program) to a shell cmd line. So that you could more easily track the process via PS
<penguin42> which process?
<penguin42> Jay_: A lot of processes ignore stuff after --   or at least don't treat them as options any more
<Jay_> But would it still appear if looking for it via ps aux |Â grep
<foobarry> Jay_: can you give a more concrete example
<Jay_> yes
<foobarry> they may be a better way
<foobarry> e.g using the alias command
<Jay_> for example, for any process you could add - - id 123456789
<foobarry> why not just track the pid?
<Jay_> then you could find the id of the previously launch process by doing ps aux |Â grep 123456789
<Jay_> well
<Jay_> sometimes when you launch a program by cmd line
<Jay_> the process id often changes
<foobarry> um
<foobarry> do you mean a shell script that spawns a new one?
<foobarry> they will have the same parent id
<Jay_> I mean if I launch a program via a python script with Popen for example
<Jay_> subprocess module will report a different pid, for example 450; when the actual pid is 451
<penguin42> Jay_: pstree is one thing that helps
<foobarry> check the PPID column
<Jay_> Didn't think of that, gonna look into it, thanks!
<foobarry> np
<foobarry> long daddy day with teh kids tomorrow
<foobarry> nighty night all
<DJones> AlanBell: Might be interesting read (assuming your still on irc) https://joinup.ec.europa.eu/elibrary/case/toulouse-saves-1-million-euro-libreoffice
 * DJones reminds himself, never go shopping with your wife, it gets expensive when it comes to cars
<penguin42> ohoh, what did you buy?
<mapps> anyone got any idea why my shoutcast is still showing my old ip for streamurl from sc_trans_basic.conf ..edited the file checked etc
<mapps> http://frogs.zapto.org:8000/index.html?sid=1
<mapps> 94.193.78.219 ismy old ip streamurl now set to my dyndns
<zleap> ok anyone here remember windows 3.1
<zleap> ?
<Myrtti> 3.11 for Networks
<zleap> http://wiki.tcl.tk/8595 -
<zleap> sorry wrong link
<zleap> Myrtti, http://zleap.net/dosbox-and-win3-1/
<Myrtti> nice
<zleap> 3 seconds to load
<zleap> i think
<zleap> Myrtti, my next task is to test on the pi
<Myrtti> I've been fiddling with irssi theming agani
<Myrtti> compiled the RC few days back, it's got 256 color support
<Myrtti> decided to redo an old theme of mine that ten years ago I wished I had had 256 colours in my use
<Myrtti> it looks absolutely horrid, but so does the original
<zleap> ok pi + dosbox + win3.1
<Myrtti> smile, you're on a screenshot!
<penguin42> ohoh
<Myrtti> https://flic.kr/p/osV65o :-D
<mapps> do i go out tonight or not
<mapps> hmm
<penguin42> Myrtti: well, it's an interesting colour scheme you have
<daftykins> too much pink!
<Myrtti> https://plus.google.com/u/0/100016383867666174158/posts/daGJhqm4f9A
<penguin42> ah, yes, it's getting there - have you considered changing the background?
<Myrtti> why would I, I love my Studio Ghibli one â¥ http://imgur.com/gallery/wTApy
<penguin42> yellow should help in your aim
<penguin42> no, I meant of the irc terminal
<Myrtti> no, black is fine.
<penguin42> but it's far too readable
<Myrtti> I'm not a total idiot... it even works if tmux isn't playing ball
<Myrtti> then it looks almost like my old roses.theme
<dwatkins> anyone in the UK around who could run a get_iplayer command for me, please?
<dwatkins> get_iplayer --pid p02169t0
<dwatkins> I seem to get a corrupted file, sadly.
<dwatkins> It's a Mogwai gig from Glastonbury.
<Myrtti> I would but our home server has a harddrive on the blink and it's time for bed
<Myrtti> good night
<dwatkins> np, sleep well Myrtti :)
<dwatkins> If anyone manages to grab it this weekend at some point, please PM me, thanks.
<daftykins> Mogwai!
<daftykins> \o/
<daftykins> i'm giving it a try
<penguin42> is this still the fallout from the beebs screwup the other day?
<daftykins> they had a screwup?
<penguin42> a big outage for a few days
<daftykins> nasty!
<penguin42> daftykins: http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/internet/posts/BBC-Online-outage
<daftykins> ty sir
<daftykins> 90%
<daftykins> dwatkins: worked ok here sir, shall transfer to a web server and link you momentarily
#ubuntu-uk 2014-07-26
<Myrtti> http://www.denofgeek.com/tv/doctor-who/31460/peter-capaldis-first-doctor-who-story-to-get-cinema-release
<mapps> yo
<daftykins> mornin
<mapps> sup
<mapps> :D
<daftykins> hmm trying to work out why ubuntu doesn't give me any sound devices with this HP craptop
<mapps> dafty
<daftykins> also my cat is going manic _nuts_ playful right now O_O
<mapps> why is shoutcast giving streamurl as my old ip
<mapps> ive changed the conf file
<mapps> checked what its reading
<mapps> any ideas:(
<daftykins> never dealt with it before, so newp
<mapps> any ideas in general
<mapps> why it might be caching or ignoring updated conf
<mapps> like any linux thing
<daftykins> i reckon it's hardcoded on some config you've missed
<mapps> can ishow u my config and that?
<daftykins> well if the old IP doesn't show up in it, i'd be hard pushed for any ideas :D
<mapps> k:(
<mapps> thught maybe i missed something
<mapps> cant see it though
<daftykins> are you grep'ing the first octet?
<mapps> from where
<daftykins> that'd be the easiest way if it's a long config
<daftykins> well, "grep 9x configfile"
<mapps> sec
<daftykins> assuming '9x' would be the first part of your old IP
<mapps> http://paste.ubuntu.com/7862610/ -- shows the shoutcast processes and the files
<mapps>  part of your old IP
<mapps> http://paste.ubuntu.com/7862611/
<mapps> shows the config and youll see its the one its readng
<mapps> :<
<daftykins> log give any clue?
<mapps> nah
<mapps> :(
<mapps> its running
<mapps> http://frogs.zapto.org:8000/index.html?sid=1
<mapps> but you can see streamUrl is wrong
<daftykins> mapps: why don't you log in on that page and check the settings
<mapps> i have
<mapps> i cant figure anything out
<mapps> i tried force reload config and it just stops
<daftykins> server login or admin login?
<mapps> on shoutcast? tried both
<daftykins> well there's got to be something in there
<mapps> sec
<daftykins> it's clear it's being configured somewhere - and statically too, given how it's not changing :>
<mapps> yea
<mapps> the password is in the pastebin
<mapps> wanna try?:P it wont be any diff
<mapps> i dont get whats happening mate
<mapps> thats my old IP havent had it since i switched from o2
<daftykins> that file before you pastebin'd, was it /home/shoutcast/shoutcast/sc_serv_basic.conf ?
<mapps> yeo
<mapps> mark@frogs:~$ cat /home/shoutcast/shoutcast/sc_serv_basic.conf | pastebinit
<mapps> 100%
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<foobarry> ubuntu alternate install is confusign sometimes
<foobarry> need to do it three times because it often runs ahead without partitining stage
<foobarry> configure raid, about to do lvm,  suddenly installing packages,
<foobarry> having a nightmare trying to install grub onto a machine after cofniguring sw raid
<foobarry> seems realted to GPT
<foobarry> ugh #1274320
<foobarry> bug 1274320
<lubotu3> bug 1274320 in grub2 (Ubuntu) "Error: diskfilter writes are not supported" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1274320
 * popey waves
<Myrtti> ooh, finally it works
<Myrtti> thanks popey
<popey> wat?
 * popey has been afk for a week so no idea what's going on â»
<Myrtti> oh, now it's gone the other way
<Myrtti> popey: irssi 0.8.17rc is what's going on
<popey> ye olde irssi here
<foobarry> www
<popey> .oO( I should probably update )
<foobarry> ugh lag
 * Myrtti compiled hers few days back
<foobarry> Myrtti: is it going to the repos?
<Myrtti> 0.8.16 is backported in Debian wheezy
 * foobarry realised his irssi is on a centos5 server. meh
<Myrtti> 0.8.17rc is just a rc
<Myrtti> thanks foobarry
<Myrtti> that works now then too.
<foobarry> my wife phoned from the wool show. gushing with excitement
<Myrtti> hehe
<Myrtti> I'm just happy I didn't go, I've got enough to spin
<popey> thats probably the longest I've been away from irc for some years
<foobarry> she bought some carders and will buy the wheel online
<Myrtti> and my spinning mojo has taken a dent recently so I've not spun for a good while either
<foobarry> popey: spain?
<popey> foobarry: isle of wight
<foobarry> same kind of weather last week \o/
<foobarry> worried the sunshine will run out by 2 aug
<foobarry> when i'm in devon
<Pendulum> Myrtti: Is there actually such thing as "enough" wool?
<Myrtti> of course there is. When you don't know what you'd do with them, then you've got too much.
<Pendulum> I assume you mean you don't know what you'd do once having spun it? Sell the extra. I suspect you can get a decent price for handspun wool, even more if you dye it. (I have a couple friends who've done this)
<popey> czajkowski: did you fix your laptop?
<czajkowski> popey: nope :(
<czajkowski> been a long week of oddness
<czajkowski> been working wiht the unity devloper all week
<czajkowski> cannot get the debugging symbols to work
<czajkowski> popey: I may be paying you a visit this weke
<popey> czajkowski: ok! â»
<czajkowski> popey: lunch will be on me!
<popey> hah â»
<czajkowski> popey: or come here and have hens and a lamp dog to entertain you
<czajkowski> if you fancy hiding from the kids
<czajkowski> any day bar Monday
<popey> may well do that!
<popey> directhex: how are the excitible states?
<directhex> hot
<popey> \o/
<popey> hot here too
<daftykins> directhex: did you actually move there? :o
<directhex> daftykins, just working out of the boston office until tuesday
<daftykins> ooh fancy
<daftykins> guys, any thoughts on an HP G6000 laptop, with an nvidia MCP67 chipset. lspci doesn't even show up its' onboard audio
<daftykins> no BIOS options about onboard audio, loaded defaults anyway
<daftykins> there seems to be talk of people messing with alsa versions online, but this device is missing in both 12.04 and 14.04
<directhex> not in lspci is pretty major
<directhex> even devices with no drivers should be in lspci
<daftykins> mmm
<daftykins> i did just have it completely apart, but i doubt audio is something that's separate
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/9tjsw2vfrsix8os/IMG_20140726_164909.jpg
<daftykins> now there's how to cope with this weather
<SuperEngineer> hmmm - so nor paying corporation tax helps cope with the weather huh?.... must give that a try sometime
<SuperEngineer> sub nor/not
<daftykins> what do you mean?
<daftykins> that branch being on Guernsey would likely be operating outside of UK jurisdiction anywho :)
<SuperEngineer> but of course, it all makes sense now... why didn't I think of that....
<SuperEngineer> NOT!
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> are Costa being sneaky and getting around taxes, in England or something?
<SuperEngineer> On a lighter mood... been annoyed by missing the skype notification icon - but no time to fix
<SuperEngineer> 1 search in browser, 1 follow appropriate link, 1 easty fix
<SuperEngineer> ...& 1 big thank you to Ask Ubuntu
<daftykins> yay :D
<daftykins> i'm playing find the missing audio device
<daftykins> confirmed not present across ubuntu and windows, so it's got to be hardware
<SuperEngineer> daftykins: don't bother... I've got your missing audio device here & holding it to ransom
<SuperEngineer> ;)
<daftykins> you scoundrel!
<daftykins> WARNING - Sector repair completed: port=7, LBA=0x3FFFFFD2
<daftykins> someone i know has a dead disk again
<SuperEngineer> Someone I know [that ugly bloke in the mirror actually] is hunting for graphic equaliser s/w - suggestions anyone?
<SuperEngineer> [copying/converting old cassettes onto hard disk - doing it via Audicity - but need to "improve" some of the sound
<daftykins> i'm no use there i'm afraid
<SuperEngineer> thanks anyway
<daftykins> hmm this laptop is now peaking at 70 deg C under load
<daftykins> not bad for a 65nm Athlon64 X2
<SuperEngineer> daftykins: 1/ start task 2/ put it in the fridge 3/ be impressed ;)
<SuperEngineer> [4/ say bye bye to all the perishable food!]
<daftykins> that's actually a fine temp for a 65nm thing of this age
 * SuperEngineer puts match under work's laptop to see if it it helps [it'll certainly help *me* :D ]
<daftykins> haha, is it old?
<SuperEngineer> nope - but it's got the spec of an OLD machine!!
<SuperEngineer> [power it on - wait 10 mins for available desktop!]
<SuperEngineer> ...& we're s'posed to be a tech company!
<SuperEngineer> [pity they didn't tell the a'hole who got conned by HP]
<daftykins> :S
<daftykins> sure there's no hardware fault?
<SuperEngineer> none - & proved.  Only hardware fault is it's spec
<SuperEngineer> [or lack of spec]
<daftykins> how bad are we talking?
<SuperEngineer> bad enough for every engineer & area manager to agree with me
<SuperEngineer> [not bad for a multi-national tech company huh?]
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> penguin42: hi sir o/ good day?
<penguin42> excellent
 * penguin42 has been to a mini Makers fair, ManLUG and is full of ice cream
<penguin42> what could be better?
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> sounds good
<penguin42> and yourself?
<SuperEngineer> penguin42: what would be better is if you sent me some of that ice cream [pre-digestion of course]
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: You can get some from http://www.gingerscomfortemporium.com/
<daftykins> penguin42: living on a funky time sadly, so barely up and showered before taking a look at this HP laptop i've been dealing with, that has lost its' onboard audio O_O doesn't even show up in lspci
<penguin42> daftykins: Hmm that's odd
<daftykins> naturally, no enable/disable BIOS entries... i even updated it just now, reset to defaults... swapped the hard disk and confirmed it's gone in Windows too
<daftykins> i really don't know what to think
<daftykins> i did have it completely apart for resolving overheating
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/ztneywnqgg4un4w/IMG_20140725_184221.jpg
<penguin42> that's odd because it's at least partially in the chipset
<Myrtti> I've said this before and I'll say it again, I hate thrips
<penguin42> daftykins: intel cpu/chipset?
<daftykins> one part of which was removing that front edge header, but i sincerely doubt that board is more than a headphone + mic jack breakout board
<daftykins> penguin42: AMD Athlon64 X2 on an nvidia MCP67 chipset
<daftykins> typically it seems people would see an nvidia high definition audio controller device
<daftykins> i see nothing at all
<penguin42> daftykins: does /sys/class/sound/card* exist at all?
<daftykins> i'm prime95'ing in Windows at present, but can reboot to see... would that also be equivalent to my knowledge of "aplay -l" giving 'no soundcards' ?
<penguin42> daftykins: Probably
<penguin42> daftykins: But yeh it is odd for it to disappear from the lspci - assuming that's how it appeared before
<daftykins> sadly i didn't even know if audio was working prior to my taking it apart
<penguin42> yeh that's when it gets tricky
<daftykins> the owner's ubuntu install does have youtube video history in browsers
<daftykins> so you'd think they'd not watch videos without sound :D
<penguin42> daftykins: Do you have old /var/log/messages?
<daftykins> penguin42: i'll fire up her old install and see what that has :) thanks
<daftykins> i've a feeling i'll be taking it apart again, but i doubt there's anything to be seen or done inside
<daftykins> my pics aren't quite complete enough to show
<daftykins> penguin42: there's the set in case it may give you any ideas - https://www.dropbox.com/sh/sdew7skkm4nqvtu/AAA0XrUF4J0Cd2pmw3lSCaZ6a
<penguin42> daftykins: Two things come to mind 1) I assume it's not stupid enough to hide it when you use the keyboard mute/projector/some other combo (!)  2) That cable to the front headphone sockets seems to have an awful lot of wires
<daftykins> hmm that's worth a try, let's try the Fn+mute combo
<daftykins> seems more software layer in my experience though
<daftykins> LOL
<daftykins> oh my word.
<daftykins> so just then i quit prime95 and shutdown Windows, considering to swap for the original HDD
<daftykins> booted back up...
<daftykins> "new hardware found"
<daftykins> oh look a modem, an audio controller and an audio device :)
<daftykins> that really is odd.
<penguin42> daftykins: Hmm, the modem is often combined - it's all soft
<daftykins> such quirky things :)
<daftykins> for the longest time this system was taking 45+ seconds to get from POST logo to booting the OS
<daftykins> turned out to be a dead DVD, i've ordered another from ebay for Â£9.99
<daftykins> penguin42: thanks for your insight regardless :) lets see what ubuntu does now
<daftykins> i installed 14.04 whilst in this state, so i wonder if it'll just appear automagically
<SuperEngineer> daftykins: only if you clap your heels together twice whilst rebooting... if you don't.... welll -don't blamre me
<penguin42> daftykins: Actually, something else you can try power it off, and then boot ubuntu; see if it finds it, if it doesn't try booting windows and then back into windows
<daftykins> to see if it's Windows provoked, yeah good plan
<daftykins> just powered off and swapping drive back now
<penguin42> daftykins: Well I was wondering if Windows is settings something up/loading firmware
<daftykins> now, do i boot 12.04 or 14.04 first :>
<daftykins> i went as far as installing an nvidia proprietary driver thinking it might enable the device
<daftykins> yeah got a startup sound just then :)
<daftykins> there it is, exact PCI bus identifier i expected it should come up on too
<daftykins> http://paste.ubuntu.com/7867104/
<penguin42> don't let it escape!
<daftykins> :D
 * daftykins nails it down
<daftykins> very pleased that's sorted :D
<daftykins> still no idea what to do with this old machine though
<Myrtti> https://flic.kr/p/othe3C â¥
<Azelphur> that's a lot of dead trees
<Myrtti> its also lovely for a weekend breakfast or garden evening
<Azelphur> indeed :)
<Myrtti> I don't subscribe for the weekday ones
<daftykins> i don't even read the single free local paper i get weekly
<Azelphur> I won magnets at a tombola, I'm happy. XD
<Myrtti> I don't read our two either
<daftykins> i missed my favourite local event :(
<daftykins> didn't know the day it was on!
<penguin42> ?
<Myrtti> most of it is just ads and especially real estate ads
<Myrtti> but Guardian doesnt seem to disappoint ever
<Myrtti> good story about Evan Davis today
<Myrtti> and tomato recipies
<Myrtti> https://plus.google.com/100833008366289253433/posts/D95SSuaXcY9
<maps|wrk> back
<maps|wrk> busy working hard as ever
<maps|wrk> :D
<daftykins> ;)
<maps|wrk> debating reinstalling shoutcast
<maps|wrk> or going with icecast
<maps|wrk> tough decisions
<maps|wrk> :)
<daftykins> lol
<daftykins> just get it done
<maps|wrk> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/travel_news/article-2705324/How-travel-private-jet-cost-commercial-flight.html
<maps|wrk> neatttttt
<penguin42> you need to get a group together for it
<maps|wrk> fly like a VIP
<maps|wrk> yea just came on my private jet
<maps|wrk> :D
<daftykins> jets are apparently tough to buy lately due to too many rich Russian oligarchs and so on
<daftykins> according to someone i know whose daughter works for the owner of Specsavers (Specsavers started in Guernsey, little fact for you ;) )
<maps|wrk> ;)
<maps|wrk> ah well il be ok not in the market for one any time soon
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> maps|wrk: this laptops audio miraculously appeared of its' own accord \o/
<maps|wrk> hahaha nice
<maps|wrk> what OS
<daftykins> several :) the device had disappeared in them all
<maps|wrk> how odd?
<daftykins> indeed!
<Azelphur> yay, magnets. https://www.dropbox.com/s/qstk382okouwxa4/2014-07-26.jpg
<Azelphur> won it at a tombola today, had to play with it :x
<daftykins> :D
<Azelphur> and now I have a cool looking phone stand, so win win
<daftykins> Dustin of Arizona has once again visited Best Buy and signed up my email address to his retail shenanigans
<daftykins> he shall pay for this insult
<maps|wrk> lol
<maps|wrk> whats your email like name@aol.com :D
<foobarry> i get the same problems
<Azelphur> I get loads of bounced mail in my inbox from people spoofing my domain :<
<foobarry> US political parties, job interview, the lot
<maps|wrk> im just curious what domain Azelphur  and what is the user for the email daftykins  ? ones people are liely to use
<maps|wrk> somename@obviousdomain?
<Azelphur> maps|wrk: azelphur.com
<maps|wrk> hm
<maps|wrk> spoofing it..do you mean just fillng forms in with x@azeplphur or something more sinister?
<Azelphur> someone continually spoofs [hex-string]@azelphur.com to spam people \o/
<Azelphur> maps|wrk: email does no verification on the sender, you can set the "from" address to anything you want
<maps|wrk> yea
<daftykins> maps|wrk: yeah <first initial><surname>@provider - tonnes of people in the US have the same with a digit after it, i was the first so they keep messing up and putting mine in
<daftykins> i've managed to track down one to her place of work once
<penguin42> Azelphur: I think some of the domain key stuff is supposed to help that now but not tried
<daftykins> she kept doing it after apologising and a long break, signing up to online purchasers thinking i'd keep politely forwarding the emails
<maps|wrk> ah
<maps|wrk> you got a common name eh:D
<daftykins> so what i did was used the sites' password reset and cancelled her orders.
<foobarry> lots of people forget they are fred.oobarry instead of foobarry@
<Azelphur> penguin42: makes no difference
<daftykins> nah it's a pretty rare surname as it goes 0o
<Azelphur> afaik
<foobarry> daftykins: not always possible given the amount i get
<daftykins> foobarry: *nod*
<daftykins> i like to go on my little revenge missions
<maps|wrk> ooh
<maps|wrk> not steve jones
<maps|wrk> or something
<maps|wrk> heh
<maps|wrk> hmm domain key eh,
<foobarry> arrghararara
<foobarry> woops. lag, sorry
<foobarry> how do you display subtitles in ripped movies? have i screwed up?
<daftykins> what format? what's your player? was it handbrake?
<daftykins> here be variables
<foobarry> handbrake
<foobarry> dvd->mp4 high prpfile
 * foobarry sobs quietly
<daftykins> depends if that profile specifies any subtitle setup really
<daftykins> actually i don't know if mp4 as a container supports subs
<daftykins> i know matroska does (mkv)
<foobarry> :'(
<daftykins> use something like mediainfo to read the file and see what it contains
<foobarry> Hard Burn: This means the subtitles are written on top of the image permanently. They cannot be turned on or off like on the DVD.
<foobarry> Soft Subtitles: This means the subtitles will appear as separate selectable tracks in your output file. With the correct playback software, youâll be able to enable / disable these subtitles as required.
<foobarry> Hard Burn: This means the subtitles are written on top of the image permanently. They cannot be turned on or off like on the DVD.
<foobarry> Soft Subtitles: This means the subtitles will appear as separate selectable tracks in your output file. With the correct playback software, youâll be able to enable / disable these subtitles as required.
<foobarry> woops. terrible lag
<daftykins> er, you're looping
<daftykins> heh
<daftykins> i've only ever heard of it termed hardcoded and softcoded
<foobarry> handbrake supports subtitles ripping but looks like i didn't do it
<daftykins> it's probably off as default, yeah
<foobarry> boo
<daftykins> foobarry: here be dragons, because when you select a subtitle set... one English will be "every word spoken" and one will be "only the foreign language bits"
<foobarry> hmm
<foobarry> so for forgein films? (i have a lot of these)
<foobarry> ah ok, i get it
<daftykins> nah like when someone foreign speaks
<foobarry> so burned in for that maybe
<foobarry> but foeign films then produce a separate file
<daftykins> foobarry: you might be able to just rip the subtitles from the disc now, and create a softcoded external subtitle file (such as .srt, or many other file extension types)
<daftykins> then you can tell your player to load it
<daftykins> foobarry: or even just look the film up online, should be freely available types
<foobarry> would they be synced? i suppose
<daftykins> if they were the same edition yeah
<daftykins> e.g. standard vs. director's cut or some such
<foobarry> my sw raid taking many hours to sync
<foobarry> 32% atm
<penguin42> foobarry: Is it set to limit the resync rate or is it just huge?
<foobarry> 3tb in RAID1
<foobarry> started around lunchtime
<foobarry> so par for the cours
<foobarry> had and awful time with GPT and RAID and GRUB
<penguin42> oh, not tried that combo
<penguin42> grub2?
<foobarry> yeah
<foobarry> had to create a 1Mb partition on /dev/sd* (not the raided bit)
<penguin42> I think I've got GRUB ok on RAID1 I did earlier this week, but not GPT
<foobarry> obviously didn't have that space so had to start again
<foobarry> grubinstall wouldn't work otherwise
<daftykins> i like keeping RAID as storage only to avoid OS troubles
<foobarry> i moved off usb today
<foobarry> which was fialyfail
<foobarry> yay the subs work, if slightly out of sync by 1sec or so
<foobarry> downloaded some
<foobarry> often need subs for america programmes too
<foobarry> due to recent trend of whispering and mumbling in films made by hollywood
 * penguin42 notes foobarry is getting old
<foobarry> heh
<foobarry> i was born old
<maps|wrk> http://frogs.zapto.org:8000/listen.pls?sid=1
<daftykins> i know what you mean, i often sit there on my XBMC HTPC hitting 'back' to try and catch what was said
<maps|wrk> working now
<maps|wrk> Current Song:	Aphex Twin - London-Rock Witch Next Song:	Prince - The Ballad Of Dorothy Parker
<maps|wrk> allthis time it was to do with the authhash key dafty LOL and not my config
<maps|wrk> :D
<maps|wrk> explains why me editing the configs didnt fix it
<foobarry> watching the bonus features on hitch hikers bbc series
<foobarry> this is why i got plex :D
<daftykins> maps|wrk: O_O how'd you find out?
<maps|wrk> plex?
<maps|wrk> googled something like shoutcast streamurl
<maps|wrk> it was so long ago id forgotten about authhash and how its used for the shoutcast directory and the station name etc
<foobarry> plex is a app for streaming media from your home srever
<foobarry> zaphod had 2 penises?
<daftykins> i don't remember that!
<foobarry> you don't see them in the programme
<foobarry> but they were there
#ubuntu-uk 2014-07-27
<mapps> hey all
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<mapps> morning
<brobostigon> morning mapps
<mapps> any plans for today mate?
<mapps> just watched first ep of a new show...the divide :) pretty decent
<brobostigon> not much, probably a beer or two this afternoon, celebrate my birthday.
<mapps> :)
<mapps> happy birthday:)
<brobostigon> ty, :)
<Myrtti> hbd brobostigon
<brobostigon> hbd ?
<Myrtti> happy birthday
<brobostigon> thank you.
<popey> pip pip
<brobostigon> morning popey
<popey> o, hows tricks?
<brobostigon> long evening last night, my birthday party with my friends, couldnt do today, got home at 2am.
 * penguin42 isn't convinced it's that much cooler than yesterday, even though metoffice was saying it should be a lot colder
<Guest45215> Hey guys what's up! I need help.... My question is... Does the installer of ubuntu 14.04 recognise that in the hdd there are two operative systems? In fact I have win7 alongside ubu12.04
<penguin42> I think it should, I've not tried that combination though
<Guest45215> Mmm ok!
<penguin42> Guest45215: Still, it's certainly making sure you've got a backup before you start
<penguin42> Guest45215: And you should be able to go quite a long way through the installer without changing anything
<Guest45215> And in your opinion is there the option to choose to get rid of the old ubuntu and to install the new version?
<penguin42> I think so; I think as you go through the installer and it gets to the bit about disk partitioning it will ask you what you want to do
<mapps> damnit
<mapps> had nightmares
<Guest45215> Tnx!
<Guest45215> Aaaand listen! If I go to windows>manage disks and decide to delete the partition where ubuntu is installed what would happen?
<penguin42> Guest45215: I'm not too sure where the boot loader ends up in a win7/ubuntu dual boot - don't delete the partition holding your current boot loader
<Guest45215> Ok! It was only a stupid question I know!
<Guest45215> Well, and know a question that doesn't involves ubuntu..... In your opinion where do I come from?
<penguin42> Well, the most likely place is Earth
<Guest45215> Hahah!!! :)
<Guest45215> But I mean... So... Mmm... Are you from an english speaking country? Sorry, but this is very important to me
<Guest45215> I'm not a stalker or something else...
<Guest45215> Just want to know...
<penguin42> Yes, native English speaker
<penguin42> GeoIP reckons you're probably from Italy
<Guest45215> Well, i know we're talking on "ubuntu-uk" so you probably come from england.... But, However... I'm not from England... i'm from a stupid country called "italy" and I would like to say that I ALWAYS  ask question in on-line places not connected with my country, because all italians are sooooo stupid and horrible people.. An hour ago I asked on ubuntu-it chat the same thing I asked in this chat and NO ONE replied to me correctly.
<penguin42> Well, not all Italians, I work with one that's smart
<mapps> yeo
<mapps> england is the best
<mapps> we agree
<Guest45215> Yeahh... All italians abroad are very smart
<penguin42> Guest45215: He's still in Italy
<Guest45215> Mmm... Oook :) but... However moving on... i have all replies to my question not certanly in italy...
<Guest45215> But my question is... Did you understand i'm not english?
<penguin42> Guest45215: Not really, your English is pretty good
<Guest45215> Ohohohohohohhooh!!!!
<Guest45215> No way!! Really?
<Guest45215> Fabulus!
<Guest45215> *fabulous
<Guest45215> Ahah!! You used GeoIP! :)
<penguin42> yep
<penguin42> Guest45215: But you can tell you're probably western European because you get the grammar about right
<Guest45215> Sorry?
<Guest45215> You're saying I have a good grammar?
<Guest45215> :)
<penguin42> Guest45215: Yes
<Guest45215> Huhuhuhu!!!!! Hugs!
<Guest45215> :) I hope one day I c
<Guest45215> *will study in UK!
<Guest45215> I hope in the Erasmus project! :)
<penguin42> ah I have heard of it
<Guest45215> Yah! It's such a wonderful project where students can move through Europe to go to study in a different country... :) I would also improve both my english grammar and pronunciation...
<Guest45215> Well... dreams are beautiful... But they are also very short, so now i stop dreaming and continue my life in this country where all sucks...
<Guest45215> *suck
<Guest45215> Politics first...
<Guest45215> Well! Thanks for all! Bye bye!
<penguin42> you're welcome
 * SuperEngineer has fingers tightly crossed - currently updating Hp mini from 12.04 to 14.04 ... X
<SuperEngineer> ...and, of course, is watching the Hungarian Grand Prix
<SuperEngineer> wee - upgrade worked! that's all 3 pooters now running 14.04.[01 I assume]
<SuperEngineer> except it's gone back to non-uk keyboard - a known xubuntu prob - usually cured by removing dbus stuff - but really, again?!
<penguin42> under the GUI?
<SuperEngineer> yup
<SuperEngineer> [still checking all used apps working 100% - so far so good - then on to resolving that little prob]
<SuperEngineer> wey-hay... even Steam working on it ok
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: I'm sure Steam got a significant amount of enthusiastic testing
<SuperEngineer> ;)
<SuperEngineer> So creaking old netbook on Lubuntu, HP mini on Xubuntu, home build desktop on Ubuntu - all 14.04.01 :D
<penguin42> I put Kubuntu on my netbook; it's ok once it gets going, but it does take a while to get itself together
<SuperEngineer> please tick here if 1st day off in 3 weeks successful [á¶]
<penguin42> haha, I'm back to work tomorrow after a week off
<SuperEngineer> penguin42: :p
<SuperEngineer> ...and brain fade - it's not a dbus prob - it's an ibus prob - currently resolving
<popey> ditto
<SuperEngineer> ..keyboard solved...
<SuperEngineer> ...now - to update to whisker menu or not to upgrade to whisker menu - that is the whatsits...
<daubers> Evening
<mapps> evening
<daftykins> o/
 * SuperEngineer refuses to say "evening" while the sun still lights a glorious sky!
<daftykins> ugh that HP craptop's audio device disappeared again :P
<mapps> heh
<daubers> Heh :)
<mapps> thought it was fixed
<daubers> SuperEngineer: Only just lighting the sky around here. Might actually have to put the lights on shortly
<daftykins> yeah, it was for one boot...
<mapps> how did u fix itbefore
<SuperEngineer> #/me hands daubers a virtual candle
<daftykins> i didn't, powering off then powering back on it mystically appeared :)
<daftykins> although that was with Windows installed
<daftykins> the Linux installs seem to chase the device away
<mapps> o
<daftykins> found a huge thread on the HP forums about lots of models having disappearing audio
<mapps> how old is the machine
<daftykins> Vista era, so 06-07
<daftykins> ah sounds like it's heat damage that's killed it
<daftykins> causing it to be intermittent
<daftykins> that makes sense now, because it was after a good run of prime95 that it worked again... so the heat probably helped make the connection briefly again
<daftykins> i could try popping the motherboard in the oven \o/
<mapps> prime95?
<daftykins> heh we are mr. questions
<daftykins> yep, it's a common stability testing program
<daftykins> it has torture test options that let you hammer the processor, RAM and disk
<mapps> heh
<daftykins> overclockers use it to stability test overclocks
<mapps> dont ask dont learn;p
<mapps> busy day tomorrow
<mapps> cant stay out all night..must remember
<mapps> :D
<mapps> else i wont get up in time
<daftykins> ^_^
<mapps> :D
<mapps> going for lunch at 2..racing at 5
<heracles> Hello. Does anyone have any experience with getting bridging to work in xen? I want to bridge wlan0 to xenbr0 but I can't find any instructions on how (that actually work)
<daftykins> that'll probably be since xen isn't the officially supported virt tech for ubuntu
<heracles> Ah
<daftykins> is that a particular reason you chose it?
<daftykins> s/that/there/
<heracles> What is the officially supported virt tech? is it kvm? I chose it because it was the first thing I read about that offers VGA passthrough which I've managed to accomplish
<heracles> as well as USB passthrough which is also working as of now
<daftykins> think so yip
<heracles> It took 3 days to get everything working (including going through several different distros). I'm kind of reluctant to start the process over again
<heracles> with a different tech
<daftykins> well, funny part about 'xenbr0' is that's named as a bridge interface already
<daftykins> so what IP does that interface have?
<heracles> the problem isn't creating the bridge interface, it's linking it with wlan0
<heracles> I'm pretty sure you can't directly link the two
<heracles> let me find the exact error I get
<heracles> sudo brctl addif xenbr0 wlan0
<heracles> yields
<heracles> can't add wlan0 to bridge xenbr0: Operation not supported
<heracles> I also tried running: $ iw dev wlan0 set 4addr on
<daftykins> if you're using network manager on the host OS and the interface is up, you probably can't do it
<daftykins> so why exactly do you want a VM to have a physical graphics card?
<daftykins> just curious
<heracles> I tried uninstalling the network manager and configuring wlan0 through /etc/network/interfaces but none of the suggested configs I tried worked
<heracles> gaming and AutoCAD
<daftykins> :S
<heracles> and I don't trust windows enough to install it on bare metal, I want the filth contained
<daftykins> that's pathetic.
<daftykins> yeah WPA supplicant fun with the interfaces file would be a challenge
<Myrtti> smile, you're again on a screenshot
 * Myrtti scrambles for screenshot tool
<heracles> screenshot why exactly? Using a VM for windows specific tasks doesn't seem like something unusual
<heracles> perhaps my comment about "containing the filth" was a tad edgy
<heracles> *shrugs*
<heracles> so what do you suggest I do daftykins?
<Myrtti> screenshot for my irssi theme
<daftykins> yes it was childish
<daftykins> i don't know, i used xen 6 years ago
<daftykins> i'd imagine there'd be plenty of information to get it working, online - assuming that bridging syntax was correct
<daftykins> i'm surprised there was even a xen kernel in the repos
<heracles> do you think it's worth trying to configure kvm instead?
<daftykins> no idea
<heracles> the ubuntu specific documentation seems to stop around 11.10
<heracles> for kvm that is
<heracles> also from what I understand xen is much more mature
<daftykins> maybe, on supported platforms
<heracles> installing kvm as we speak
<heracles> thanks for your help
<daftykins> there we go, bit of a heating for a while... audio comes back \o/
<daftykins> i think i'm gonna pop it in the oven
#ubuntu-uk 2015-07-20
<diddledan> no warning. just suddenly gone
<zmoylan-pi> overheat?
<diddledan> maybe?
<m0nkey_> blame the gremlins
<m0nkey_> or blame me. i h4ckerz y0u b0x3n
<diddledan> :-p
<diddledan> m0nkey_: that scares me, because you actually do know where I live :-p
<diddledan> mind you I'm fairly open about my location
<diddledan> most the regulars in here prolly have a vague recollection of my location
<diddledan> hint: roundabouts. and not swindon.
<penguin42> I like Barnards star?
 * zmoylan-pi looks over diddledan's shoulder with drone...
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi: be honest, you're perving at me from my wardrobe
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi: you're gonna jump out later with a ski mask and a giant chopper
<diddledan> and I'll say: "myy, what a big thingy you have"
<zmoylan-pi> DID YOU SEE MY NEW SKI MASK AND AXE??
<mapito> mornning;]
<diddledan> allo
<diddledan> don't you love how hackers send each other viruses in public email chains? (I have numerous viruses that get flagged-up when downloading my gmail archive in thunderbird)
<diddledan> not that I'm a hacker. I subscribe to the full-disclosure mailing list
<diddledan> so I get them as a byproduct
<mapito> haha really
<diddledan> I think I need a new cpufan
<diddledan> or rather the heatsink
<diddledan> mine is completely caked in dust. not sure I can clean it easily
<diddledan> I think it's causing the system to shutdown due to overheat
<mapito> hmm
<mapito> fell aslee somewhere during true detectiv
<ball> Mornin'
<diddledan> balls
<diddledan> :-p
<diddledan> ello
<mapito> morning
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<mapito> finised e2 of true detective;]
<diddledan> welldone
<diddledan> :-p
<mapito> ;)
<mapito> you seen any
<diddledan> not yet
<diddledan> I must add it to my list
<shauno> uff, I really don't want to be awake today
<mapito> ;]
<mapito> just got iup
<mapito> ?
<shauno> sorta.  just turned the lights back on  lol
 * brobostigon makes shauno an espresso injection.
 * shauno rolls up sleeve
<brobostigon> :)
<knightwise> morning peeps
<brobostigon> morning knightwise
<knightwise> how are you guys doin today .
 * knightwise has 2 episodes of Mr Robot to catch up on for tomorrow : )
 * brobostigon is having trouble with his hay fever.
<knightwise> damn brobostigon :( that sucks
<knightwise> know how that feels from time to time
<knightwise> all those trees ejaculating up your nose
<brobostigon> yes, couldnt sleep, contanstly runny nose and sneeses, its horrid.
<shauno> oh oh I got my letter through .. I have a postcode now!
<knightwise> Hooked up my old Raspberry pi to the network last night.
<shauno> 9 years of trying to trick websites are finally over
<knightwise> Running Nagios on :)
<brobostigon> is it a place that didnt have a postcode previously, like antarctica?
<knightwise> shauno: underground nuclear bunker ?
<shauno> most of ireland (eg, outside of Dublin) didn't have postcodes until a week or two ago
<knightwise> shauno: where U at ?
<brobostigon> interesting.
<shauno> I guess they never needed them because the postman already knew everybody & everybody's business.  but now we've been brought kicking and screaming into the 20th century.
<knightwise> silly question : I'm on a ubuntu machine
<knightwise> i am ssh'd into a headless raspberry pi (who just has a commandn line interface)
<knightwise> i want to edit a file (i can do that with nano)
<knightwise> but what if i want to edit a config file on the remote raspberry pi with something like Gedit (that is only installed on my own machine ? )
<knightwise> in essence : open a remote file (via ssh) with a local copy of gedit
<MooDoo> :) morning all
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo :)
<MooDoo> :)
<shauno> oh boy.  it's mcaffee day :/
<MooDoo> mcaffee?
<shauno> once a month it wants to do a full scan.  so I get to spend all day trying to catch every single defer dialog in the 15 seconds it gives me, before it takes my laptop back to the stone age
<MooDoo> booooo
<knightwise> mcaffee : like pouring frozen honey onto your harddrive platters
<MooDoo> bloomin kvm/ubuntu/webservers boooooooooooooooo
<MooDoo> rats can't connect to my webserver sigh!
<davmor2> Morning all
<bashrc> morning
<TwistedLucidity> Good Evening (Alhpa release)
<MooDoo> morning davmor2
<MooDoo> et al
<davmor2> MooDoo: morning head songs updated see if you can guess the film I'm watching tonight ;)
 * TwistedLucidity is wondering what MooDoo wants rats to access their webserver....
<davmor2> TwistedLucidity: to stop the cats sleeping on them http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=c41_1386822938
<popey> morning
<davmor2> popey: how's the email this morning?
<popey> super
<popey> super full :)
<davmor2> super fun you were going for I know ;)
<MooDoo> TwistedLucidity: i'd love to be able to access it myself :(
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Monday, and happy Space Exploration Day! ð
<davmor2> JamesTait: man that explains that growth on your forehead, It's the final front ear, Thank you I'm here all week :D
 * JamesTait groans
<davmor2> JamesTait: definitely a day for this too https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FCARADb9asE
<zmoylan-pi> that joke is not up to spock...
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: I got up early, that's my excuse and I'm sticking to it :)
<zmoylan-pi> it's just such an old joke that it's barely klingon to life
<knightwise> well ,space exploration day is better then mcaffee day;
<zmoylan-pi> could you not let it run overnight to tame the beast?
<davmor2> knightwise: You complain too much ;)
<ujjain> Anybody here using aptly?
<ujjain> I keep on getting issues with locked databases, because apparantly you can only run 1 command at a time. ERROR: can't open database: resource temporarily unavailable
<shauno> pretty much anything that touches dpkg or apt has that though, no ?
<davmor2> knightwise: just think it could be Norton week instead ;)
<foobarry> why is wine still not 64 bit?
<davmor2> foobarry: because the intergalatic overlord won't use 64bit?  I assume it is because nearly all windows apps are still actually 32bit
<foobarry> they are?
<davmor2> foobarry: they are :)
<davmor2> foobarry: and nearly all of the ones supported by wine are xp based so definitely 32bit :)
<davmor2> foobarry: Windows struggled to get drivers for their 64bit OS till windows 7 I think and even then it was slow so devs targeted 32bit still
<foobarry> the summary is i need to install 600mb of 32bit packages jsut to install wine
<popey> 600m seems excessive
<popey> maybe exaggeration?
<popey> or poor packaging
 * popey hugs ncdu
 * popey considers a larger SSD for laptop
<shauno> you see samsung have a 2tb one now?
<popey> blimey
<popey> thing is my laptop has ssd 7mm and msata ssd
<foobarry> 592mb
<shauno> no kidding.  that's like .. twice as big as the last one I couldn't afford
<foobarry> need to get 171mb of archives, and after this 594mb will be used
<popey> so you have zero 32-bit apps on your system right now?
<foobarry> i have a few
<foobarry> 69
<popey> wonder what else it's pulling in then
<shauno> lol, I just figured out why it's so quiet at work.  our ssl cert expired and someone's replaced it with a self-signed one.  so none of our appliances will connect.
<brobostigon> wooops.
 * popey spies 500GB msata
<popey> only problem is getting my data from one msata to the other
<shauno> I think I'm gonna go for a walk, since it's going to be very, very quiet for .. hopefully only hours  lol
<popey> ooh, 9 quid msata to sata adapter.. could work
<diddledan> shauno: lol
<diddledan> shauno: that was a silly move by whomever
<shauno> way past silly, and into the realms of corporal punishment
<diddledan> I should eat something
<popey> good idea
<awilkins> shauno, DERP. If you control the domain you can get a class 1 cert for FREE.
<awilkins> shauno, Whoever did the self-signed one is a dufus
<shauno> indeed
<diddledan> shauno: still dead?
<daftykins> directhex: nah it was me using xbox one streaming from Windows 10 to play Batman: AK :)
<directhex> thatsthejoke.gif
<daftykins> ah my away log did not convey much of that kind :P
<daftykins> the twitch streamer i watched play it had it running ace though
<daftykins> guy had an older GTX 770
<diddledan> WEEEE
<daftykins> diddledan: 'lo sir, what's happening?
<shauno> dan broked it
<diddledan> daftykins: not much. just killing IRC servers :-p
<daftykins> :D
<diddledan> why does jamestait get more time till he times-out?
 * zmoylan-pi reels at the sensation of a 1000 geeks falling silent... ;-)
<diddledan> everyone else gets 248 seconds, he gets 620?!
<daftykins> such bias ;)
<penguin42> friendly peers
<JamesTait> diddledan, don't hate the player, hate the game. ð
<diddledan> JamesTait: dammit, now I just lost!
 * JamesTait does a little vistory dance.
<JamesTait> *victory
<JamesTait> History victory - vistory.
<JamesTait> *ahem*
<diddledan> just because of that, I'm going to link you all to http://www.losethegame.net/
<foobarry> anyone ever work for a company who decided that wearing ID cards on lanyards is compulsory, but not for security reasons?
<diddledan> what could be a valid reason that isn't security?
<foobarry> corporate branding to the rest of the company that you are part of teh marvellous IT team
<ali1234> so that customers know the name of the person they are talking too
<diddledan> \o/
<foobarry> nope
<foobarry> you don't have to wear the ID card
<ali1234> it always makes me cringe when people try to casually turn around their name badge
<foobarry> its more important to wear the lanyard
<foobarry> they are getting a hard on about lanyards not the ID
<shauno> this is like an ultra-cheap version of startrek uniforms?
<shauno> you're a red-shirt?
<shauno> err .. red-lanyard
<penguin42> so you mean you have to have the lanyard and not just stick it to your forehead?
<foobarry> i would resign rather than wear a dehumanising lanyard
<daftykins> another fine day in #ubuntu
<foobarry> i would wear a uniform or a suit but not a lanyard
<daftykins> gotta help those youngsters get the max framerates in their pew pew games
 * penguin42 loves not having to work in an office any more
<shauno> but if you don't have a collar, anyone who finds you will take you to the stray shelter?
<daftykins> you might have a chip!
<penguin42> on your shoulder? Yes, most IT guys have
<shauno> I'm totally in favour of chipping humans
<daftykins> :D
<penguin42> shauno: with ketchup or mayo?
<daftykins> my friend that's visiting just started work up in my office, as it's work time in Texas
<shauno> ketchup I guess, I'm not belgian
<shauno> but a little subdermal one like we're quite happy to put in our dear pets.  in the hand, so the keyboard/laptop/doorhandle/etc can tell it's your hand.  that'd be neat
<daftykins> pretty fancy HP laptop
<penguin42> shauno: Could be useful if someone finds you wondering the streets
<diddledan> shauno: the problem with that is a hand will now become a viable target for severance
<shauno> in scripts, sure.  in the real world, not so much
<diddledan> see this is why I'm worried about microsoft hello. I could cope just about with losing my finger or hand, but losing my head is a bit terminal
<diddledan> daftykins: yey for pewpew games
<daftykins> ;)
<penguin42> diddledan: There are some ID things based on palm vain patterns, they require IR absorption from oxygenated blood
<zmoylan-pi> and if it becomes popular enough some smart sod will find a way to fake it to bypass it
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi: all you need is a transfusion kit
<penguin42> zmoylan-pi: Probably yes, but it might be easier to do it without extracting your hand
<zmoylan-pi> no no, you'd take the arm for making it so difficult for the crooks :-)
<zmoylan-pi> whenever some goes on about biometrics i tell them to google malaysia machete mercedes http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4396831.stm
<diddledan> yey for ancient bbc news webpage layout
<shauno> this is where humans are terrible at judging risks.  just because it happened once, somewhere, doesn't mean it's a real and ongoing concern for the vast, vast majority of us
<zmoylan-pi> but it does stop the it'll never happen brigade
<shauno> well, don't worry, I'm sure no-one will chop your finger off for your nokia :)
<zmoylan-pi> and we know from incidents with pintos and ignitions and airbags that car companies will spend a lot of money paying of and hushing up bad news
<zmoylan-pi> my nokia is my primary weapon :-)
<daftykins> diddledan: yip, makes me cringe at MS advertising with kids saying their lives will be better with Windows 10 as they'll "never need to know the hassles of passwords"
<shauno> why's that a bad thing?
<daftykins> the tech they refer to is biometric in Windows Hello i think
<daftykins> total joke
<zmoylan-pi> but it's not explained to non technical people that way
<daftykins> why does that bear any relevance?
<penguin42> what does Hello use instead?
<daftykins> penguin42: sorry, got delayed - "With Windows Hello, youâll be able to just show your face, or touch your finger, to new devices running Windows 10 and be immediately recognized.  And not only is Windows Hello more convenient than typing a passwordâitâs more secure!"
<bashrc> so I just print out a photo of someone and show it to windows 10?
<awilkins> It makes you blink
<awilkins> It signals you to blink within a set interval
<awilkins> So you'll at least need a Vine or Youtube vid of someone with a blink in it
<bashrc> do some photo editing
<awilkins> Well, yeah, that too
<bashrc> how long before there's a utility which takes a photo and produces a blinking animation?
<bashrc> read photo. Apply opencv face detector. Find eyes. Use skin colour to produce blink animation
<awilkins> It is indeed, bloody stupid. But already a feature on Android (and probably iPhone) and no-one moans about that.
<awilkins> And as for lanyards... I always kept my ID card in my pocket
<bashrc> ...run blink animation on button press, so you can run it on a tablet
<awilkins> In my train pass wallet.
<penguin42> awilkins: Actually there was lots of moans about the android one when it came out
<daftykins> penguin42: yeah i remember that was bypassed by facebook snaps easily enough
<penguin42> but the blink idea isn't too bad - easy to fix though, I imagine it'll move onto things asking you to cringe or smile or the like
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> i don't even hugely want to touch peoples phones that have the fingerprint sensors on the home buttons
<zmoylan-pi> i hope they've tested the blink one on asian folk before releasing it this time... http://iwastesomuchtime.com/on/?i=4958
<diddledan> actually windows hello's face recognition requires an infrared depth-capable webcam
<diddledan> so it requires a bust of the target rather than a photo
<daftykins> well hot-diggity-daym
<daftykins> :D
<penguin42> ok, that's not entirely insane
<zmoylan-pi> so project photo onto a 3d head form...
<penguin42> a warm 3d head form - from a microwave
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi: it needs to be the correct dimensions
<diddledan> i.e. you can't use a photo of me from facebook projected onto a random shop manequin
<zmoylan-pi> whenever i hear about hi tech security i remind myself of the australian firewall.  millions spent on firewall to make a secure internet beaten in 5 minutes by horny teenager
<diddledan> o_O
<zmoylan-pi> at my last job they sent our security 'expert' on a course to secure windows networks connected to internet to stop staff browsing porn.  he came back set up a network.  the office perv stepped up to keyboard.  double clicked my computer and for drive letter typed in gayporn.com and bingo...
<penguin42> haha
 * diddledan bookmarks
<zmoylan-pi> when we had dialup and only the 2 bosses had the password for internet he wrote a vb app that imitated dial up login. and had it send passwords to text file on network share.
<daftykins> zmoylan-pi: i don't get what setting the drive label would've done o0
 * penguin42 likes spotting the dumb physical mistakes in buildings - like lifts that go past swipe entry doors, or power switches to security locks on the outside of the area
<zmoylan-pi> where you type in c:\ in windows explorer.  if you type www.google.com it brings up a web page in explorer
<diddledan> if the tech had done his job correctly that should be filtered by the internet proxy
<zmoylan-pi> explorer used a whole different set of restrictions than internet explorer
<diddledan> i.e. if he set the internet explorer settings to point to a proxy then windows explorer will also use the same proxy
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi: no
<zmoylan-pi> each and every restriction they installed was bypassed in a few minutes
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi: IE is too entrenched in windows that the proxy settings persist
<daftykins> zmoylan-pi: oh the address bar in explorer, ok
<zmoylan-pi> if...
<diddledan> IE's internet settings window is actually the system internet settings
<diddledan> and also. if you're trying to filter the internet then you should at least block outgoing port 80 from anything except your poxy proxy
<diddledan> basically if this porn addict bypassed it so easily then that security expert isn't
<zmoylan-pi> it wasn't a porn addict.  we just hated seeing a half assed job done and like poking holes in bad solutions
<diddledan> don't you love americans. I'm watching the visual studio 2015 launch keynote and they've got european footballers talking, in english, and they have put subtitles on the video, in english.
<zmoylan-pi> when my brother was in australia on honeymoon he went to see the commitments movie about a band in dublin there.  they handed out cards explaining the terms used...
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> diddledan: but there are foreign devs too who might not handle the accent!
<davmor2> diddledan: ah but did it translate the gibberish they come out with to English?
<diddledan> davmor2: it was prebaked subtitles
<diddledan> i.e. they had someone who spoke english to listen to the english and translate it to english
<davmor2> I bet it was translated to American not English :P
<zmoylan-pi> the way things are going they'll someday start adding/removing the u in colour using cgi for american/european audiences...
<diddledan> and then they use an indian with a much thicker accent to do the keynote live with no subtitles
<daftykins> hmm out of band Windows patch for some font issue or some such
<daftykins> oops :>
<shauno> when you say "font issue" you mean "remote code execution"?
<daftykins> odd, it says shauno beside that comment and not zmoylan-pi :D
<shauno> ;)
<shauno> https://technet.microsoft.com/library/security/MS15-078
<zmoylan-pi> that's slander that is... i'd have said m$ :-)
<daftykins> XD
<shauno> interesting that they put it out before patch-tuesday.  I take it there must be some quite immediate concern if waiting one day wasn't do-able?
<daftykins> yeah out of band patch
<daftykins> means maybe just visiting a website could've exploited a system i think
<zmoylan-pi> damn you comic sans!! :-D
<daftykins> ugh :P
<daftykins> i still remember being asked by an English teacher in 2002 "which font is it everyone always uses?"
<daftykins> or typeface as my old man would have me call 'em
 * zmoylan-pi nods at use of term typeface...
<shauno> not sure you can blame comic sans, that's truetype not opentype :)  this one's Adobe's lol  (yeah, surprise!)
<daftykins> and i think he said font was truly size of text
<zmoylan-pi> so... adobe software being normal then...
<daftykins> seems about right
<daftykins> hmm i probably still need to do the rounds again on pesky flash
<daftykins> probably isn't quite so great looking to just email clients and say "hey guys, update this"
<daftykins> especially considering one email'd to say she wanted her homepage changed...
<diddledan> looks like some fun times in ubuntu land coming up if you're on wily - they're changing gcc major-versions from 4 to 5, including an ABI change! expect breakage I guess
<zmoylan-pi> arch level breakage or normal level breakage? :-)
<brobostigon> or debian sid/experimental breakage.
<ali1234> it shouldn't be *that* bad
<ali1234> you should be fine unless you have local C++ stuff you built yourself with the old C++11 ABI
<Azelphur> Anyone know of any good, cheap projectors to use to project onto my bedroom ceiling? 1080p would be nice, using it for gaming, tv shows and movies.
<zmoylan-pi> new argos catalog out... :-)
<penguin42> zmoylan-pi: Small pleasures
<penguin42> ali1234: I thought there was something cunning to keep the C++ abi compatible
<ali1234> apparently not
<penguin42> ali1234: Isn't that what this is supposed to solve: https://gcc.gnu.org/onlinedocs/libstdc++/manual/using_dual_abi.html ?
<brobostigon> i hate this, watching a prog about physics on bbc4, and then poking holes allover the place where they are plain wrong.
<penguin42> which one and who is presenting?
<diddledan> is it D-REAM COXY?
<diddledan> :-p
<diddledan> things can only get better, yannow
<brobostigon> penguin42: horizon, cosmoology.
<brobostigon> cosmology*
<diddledan> cosmopology!
<diddledan> :-p
<brobostigon> lol.
<penguin42> brobostigon: Hmm and what did they screw up?
<ali1234> horizon is really bad and has been for like 10 years
<brobostigon> i was dumbass, i studied albert einstein when i was a child, i blame my aspergers.
<brobostigon> penguin42: where do i start, the interpretation of special reletivity, for example.
 * penguin42 doesn't see anything wrong with that :-)
<penguin42> relativity always breaks my heads
<brobostigon> it is really very simply.
<brobostigon> it is really very simple.
<penguin42> is that just the one where velocities don't add linearly?
<brobostigon> interpretation of speed is reletive, so therefore it is definatly not linear.
<diddledan> I'm rather massive. does that mean time is going slower in my head than in the head of a smaller person? :-p
<zmoylan-pi> no it just means the universe revolves around you
<diddledan> all of it?
<zmoylan-pi> those bits not nailed down
<brobostigon> no, you being on something massive, you percieve space-time as being normal.
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> yeah, but, is my perceived timeline the same length as the perceived timeline of fred next-door
 * zmoylan-pi attempts gravitational slingshot on moped around diddledan to make it alive through red cow roundabout...
<diddledan> lol
<brobostigon> diddledan: nope, because someone outside of the syetm, ie as you put it, fred nextdoor will percieve space-time within you are inside differently compared to you.
<diddledan> now. gravity slows down time. as does velocity. so if you're supermassive and going really fast, surely there must be a point where time starts going backasswards </troll> :-p
 * brobostigon ahds diddledan a book on general reletivity, that will explain it.
<ali1234> the crux is that what you see is what actually happens
<brobostigon> its a mathematical and logical flaw, space-time cannot flow backwards, only forwards inside the theories of reletivity.
<diddledan> then the theory needs adjusting :-p
<ali1234> people say things like "when you see a supernova it actually happened millions of years ago"
<diddledan> because I've seen clocks that go the wrong way
<ali1234> this is an incorrect interpretation, it happened when you see it
<brobostigon> diddledan: ie, if we had infinate gravity and speed, time would stop,
<diddledan> ali1234: that's a good point.
<ali1234> the thing is that "now" is relative to the observer
<zmoylan-pi> i first heard of backward clocks in callahans bar series of stories by spider robinson.  got one years later.  quite easy to get used to it
<brobostigon> ali1234: incorrect, keep in mind, thw time light takes to travel and the distences,
<ali1234> brobostigon: no, that is exactly the incorrect interpretation
<diddledan> brobostigon: but the light is travelling at light-speed, so time is effectively not moving
<ali1234> the idea that there is a universal "now" and we only see it played back after some time is not logically consistent
<ali1234> that is it doesn't work with the mathematics
<diddledan> it's been proven that "time" isn't constant
<brobostigon> ali1234: i disagree, lets say, the light from an object, if one light year away, you see that object as it was a year ago,
<brobostigon> ali1234: i agree, there isnt a universal now, hence why the theories of reletivty describe space-time being able to be bent and changed.
<brobostigon> diddledan: correct.
<ali1234> brobostigon: that interpretation fails to account for time dilation
<diddledan> I love that they took two cesium timepieces and flew one around a bit while the other one stayed where it was. and that when put back together again they were showing different atomic-times
<ali1234> consider the twin paradox
<brobostigon> ali1234: not at all, i gave two seperate examples, one simplified and one where time dilation definatly applies.
<penguin42> diddledan: Welcome to the GPS system
<brobostigon> thats basic time dilation , diddledan
<diddledan> penguin42: indeed
<ali1234> you you were to fly away from earth at near light speed for 1 year, and then look at the earth, you'd see it as it was just under a year ago
<ali1234> however this is most definitely not what happens
<ali1234> in fact what you see is the earth where more than 1 year has passed
 * brobostigon is bored now, for information he already knows, and goes to bed.
 * penguin42 tries to get his head around what ali1234 has just said
<penguin42> ali1234: So when you say 'you were to fly away from earth at neat light speed' is that 'near light speed'' as measured in your reference frame?
<diddledan> I really like the concept of the al qubiere propulsion system - in your reference frame you're moving at sub-light velocity but because space is distorting when you turn the drive off you're suddenly much further along your course than it would have seemed
<ali1234> penguin42: wikipedia has a good explanation of what is actually seen by each twin
<Azelphur> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Technika-40-270-Black-40-Widescreen-LCD-TV-Full-HD-1080p-With-Freeview-/351430047530?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item51d2dcf72a thinking of buying this for use with xbox/laptop, thoughts? :)
<penguin42>  'technika'
<Azelphur> penguin42: *shrug* I have a "Furrion" in the front room that's 55" and is nice too
<Azelphur> don't care about smart, don't care about anything really besides having a nice big panel to plug a computer into.
<penguin42> Azelphur: and if it'brand new how come it has a tesco outlet warranty
<Azelphur> penguin42: I noticed that too, but honestly I've been in the market for used anyway, Â£170 is the best price I've seen for a 40" 1080p
<penguin42> yeh
<penguin42> really should replace his CRT
<popey> the reviews don't look good
<Azelphur> really? I googled reviews and got 8.9 out of 10, what are you seeing?
<popey> loads of clueless people giving it 5 stars :)
<popey> and a bunch saying its unreliable
<popey> http://www.tesco.com/direct/technika-40-270-40-widescreen-full-hd-1080p-lcd-tv-with-freeview/210-1986.prd
<Azelphur> Interesting
<Azelphur> I suppose unreliability I can live with, by the time the 12 month warranty comes I'll be chucking it anyway most likely
<penguin42> is that freeview not freeview-hd ?
 * penguin42 thinks he'd like to know where the tip is near Azelphur
<Azelphur> not using freeview so doesn't bother me
<Azelphur> penguin42: haha it'll probably go somewhere useful, but plan to get a raise at work and have a lot more disposable income sometime soon, so can buy nicer things, this is a stopgap :)
<Azelphur> I can't find mention anywhere of this tvs latency lol
<penguin42> it's a cheapo tesco tv - you'll be lucky the picture comes out sometime after you fed it in
<Azelphur> lol
#ubuntu-uk 2015-07-21
<zmoylan-pi> sometimes cheapo generic hardware is wonderful.
<penguin42> true - it doesn't try and be overly smart
<MooDoo> morning all
<MooDoo> morning
<davmor2> Morning all
<davmor2> diddledan, MooDoo: Cher Believe this morning :)
<MooDoo> morning davmor2
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<MooDoo> any one come accross an issue when logging into a  LTS server via ssh it kicks you straight out after typing in the password?
<MooDoo> http://paste.ubuntu.com/11913362/ is the pastebin of my ssh -v well the last bit
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Viking 1 Landing Day! ð
<ujjain> our mysql prod shows mysql failed with "hostname ...is blocked because of many connection errors". Any ideas what can cause max_connect_errors? MySQL seems to have been fine and no errors in the mysql error log.
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<bashrc> morning
<brobostigon> morning bashrc
<davmor2> MooDoo: no but then I use keys not passwords they so antiquated ;)
 * bashrc also uses keys
<TwistedLucidity> MooDoo: Have you made changes to .bashrc or (possibly) permissions recently?
<MooDoo> TwistedLucidity: no i had a gluster issue and had to restore from a backup, it's possible the login is set to /bin/false or something like that but I can't get into to check i lol
<MooDoo> bashrc: davmor2 I use keys for my major servers, but this a little beastie i'm not worried about loosing it, I'm just curious how to fix it :D
<TwistedLucidity> MooDoo: Try something like this - ssh you@there bash --norc --noprofile -i
<TwistedLucidity> MooDoo: Source - https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2013/04/msg01105.html and the thread - https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2013/04/msg01090.html
<TwistedLucidity> Go no VM console thing you can jump on to? Avoid the whole SSH shenanigans.
<MooDoo> TwistedLucidity: no console pmsl, it was before i set it up on my servers
<MooDoo> TwistedLucidity: yeah non of that works, I'm not even able to pass commands to the login....not to worry, thanks all :D
<foobarry> wow. pc rebooted in the middle of wine install
<bashrc> feature?
<bashrc> often when that happens it's an overheating problem
<bashrc> fan or heatsink
<foobarry> it seems fine
<bashrc> I had a laptop which used to do that years ago, and it was because sometimes the graphics card would draw more power than the psu could supply
<bashrc> when playing games with 3d graphics
 * zmoylan-pi is writing a quick script in perl on windows system.  the constant nagging notifications/beeps/bongs is very annoying...
<zmoylan-pi> thank goodness for rasp pi i can ssh into for logical system...
<Azelphur> Haha nice, just bought a refurbished printer and it came with a stack of 50 Ubuntu print test pages in the tray.
<Azelphur> spose that means I won't have any problems getting this thing working :)
<awilkins> Logical choice really, using Ubuntu to test refurbs
<foobarry> lubotu3: test
<lubotu3> Testing... Testing... 1. 2.. 3... ( by the way, remember that you can use /join #test )
<awilkins> Getting the drivers for Windows is fraught with multi-100-MB downloads and bloatware
<foobarry> lubotu3: bug 123
<lubotu3> bug 123 in Launchpad itself "There's no direct way to see the project info when translating it" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/123
<Azelphur> speaking of said printer, it came with toner cartridges ... and uhh https://owncloud.azelphur.com/owncloud/index.php/s/kJ9yXjVS8FBL36p and https://owncloud.azelphur.com/owncloud/index.php/s/tUrfMZyYw61gpKQ
<Azelphur> ...return / ask for new toner cartridge time?
<popey> did they waste it printing test sheets? :)
<Azelphur> popey: probably since it is supposed to come with "part used consumables" (it's a refurb from a company)
<Azelphur> I really don't know much about printers so I'm not sure whether this is normal and I should clean them and put them in, or what
<popey> just chuck them in :)
<popey> they're clealy taken out part used
<Azelphur> really? even with ink all over them?
<Azelphur> I didn't think they were meant to leak like that
<Azelphur> It even has a big-ass warning sign saying "Don't touch the rollers" and the roller has dust all over it
 * Azelphur prods popey
<popey> hm?
<popey> I'd be inclined to take it outside and blow it :)
<Azelphur> called them, they said send photos and they'll replace them, I guess that works :)
<popey> heh
<Azelphur> maybe I'll get some new cartridges outta it :)
<awilkins> I ruined my printer trying to fix it's toner feed issues
<awilkins> Well, scratched up the imaging drum
<awilkins> Replacing it was more expensive than a shiny new printer
<awilkins> Even if it was a networked colour laser!
<Azelphur> yea mine is a networked colour laser
<Azelphur> got a good deal, only Â£50 refurb
<Myrtti_> I still â¥ our Samsung SCX-4500W, or The Sentinel as we lovingly call it
<diddledan> when did heatsinks get so complex to install?
<diddledan> this one I got delivered today has a bracket that you need to put on the back of the board (I gather that's normal now?)
<diddledan> I guess it's because they've got heavy?
<diddledan> you don't want the weight pulling the cpusocket off
<diddledan> nice update from Miguel de Icaza about efforts to unify mono and .net core: http://tirania.org/blog/archive/2015/Jul-21.html
<knightwi1e> hey everyon e
<brobostigon> evenning knightwise
<diddledan> allo
<knightwise> hey diddledan how are you tonight ?
<diddledan> I'm good thanks
<knightwise> playing around with my nagiospi here
<knightwise> managed to get it up and working AND get the email notifications working with SendEmail
<diddledan> if anyone's running windows: https://grahamcluley.com/2015/07/update-windows/
<diddledan> knightwise: nice
<knightwise> yep , now I just need to figure out how to add a service.
<knightwise> i want it to check a specific website for specific content
<knightwise> that way I can see if my RSS feed for the podcast is still alive
<diddledan> "Apple stock sinks because they 'only' earned $49.6 billion in revenues. Makes sense."  ref: @thurott
<diddledan> @thurrott
<diddledan> double arr
<daftykins> :D
<diddledan> and @bbcrorycj says: "Apple shares plunging after record results - markey hoping for even more from iPhone, China"
<diddledan> yikes, the aapl stock graph on google shows massive drop
<diddledan> down from ~132 to ~122
<daftykins> lawl
<diddledan> so that's 10$ per share of a drop?
<diddledan> or is that cents per share?
<diddledan> I don't understand the markets :-p
<diddledan> after-hours is showing a 6.7% drop for today
<diddledan> now 6.8
<diddledan> you'd think they'd choose a figure and stick with it. I don't get why it keeps changing :-p
<daftykins> so now could be the time to buy some
<diddledan> if you have 122$ you can buy a whole 1share
<daftykins> yay
<diddledan> fun: http://ma.tt/2015/07/licenses-going-dutch/
<diddledan> MS have released some ninja-cat wallpapers and a kit to make your own: http://blogs.windows.com/bloggingwindows/2015/07/21/a-fun-surprise-for-windows-insiders/?linkId=15735507
<diddledan> so @thurrott made his own: https://twitter.com/thurrott/status/623598998771892224/photo/1
<ali1234> you shouldn't try to catch a falling knife, so they say
<diddledan> lol
<ali1234> and yes that is $ not cents
<diddledan> seems to be hovering around 121.25
<diddledan> apparently tim cook says the iphone grew 3times as fast as market - that's because they increased the screen dimensions to match those of android </troll> :-p
<diddledan> as in , the growth he speaks of is the increase in dimensions of screen
<diddledan> it doesn't matter how many thingies you sell. it's the size of your thingy that counts!
<shauno> lol @ the bacon narwhal
<shauno> I really wish they'd just release numbers for the watch
<diddledan> err.. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-33508830
#ubuntu-uk 2015-07-22
<penguin42> ah
<penguin42> vintage videos
<diddledan> o_O citizens' advice are moaning about line rental charges for broadband service - they say it's a hidden cost not mentioned in advertising.
<diddledan> surely it's accepted that if you have a phone line then you pay for it
<ali1234> it is a hidden cost tho
<ali1234> i don't want to make or receive phone calls
<diddledan> not really. I can get sky broadband without paying them for line rental
<diddledan> if I get my phone line from someone else then I pay them not sky
<diddledan> so sky's advertising would be correct in it's costs
<ali1234> for example zen internet
<ali1234> Â£27* monthly charge for Unlimited Fibre 1 + Â£16.99* monthly charge for line rental
<ali1234> OR Â£32.40* monthly charge, when Unlimited Fibre 1 is ordered without line rental (and then you also pay BT 16.99 line rental)
<ali1234> guess what price they advertise
<diddledan> well surely the hidden cost there is not the line rental but having it without paying the line rental to them
<penguin42> diddledan: I'm on virgin cable; I have a flat monthly fee for brroadband, I don't have a separate line rental
<diddledan> penguin42: I think you're highlighting the wrong person :-p
<diddledan> penguin42: I was moaning that CAB were complaining about something which I don't think is accurate
<penguin42> diddledan: I think it's a valid moan
<penguin42> diddledan: EE have big signs up in their shop for 'Free broadband for EE customers' - and then you ask and they say 'ah yes, you need to pay the line rental'
<diddledan> but you'd have to pay line rental to have broadband with any bt-bourne supplier
<diddledan> having a fixed-line phone costs money
<penguin42> diddledan: Why does it?
<diddledan> because someone has to supply the service
<penguin42> diddledan: and so how do you split the broadband cost and the line rental cost - to the consumer they don't need to worry about who is supplying each part; they worry about the bill at the end of the day
<diddledan> your virgin is case in point - you don't pay line rental for a phone because your broadband isn't phone-cable-bourne
<penguin42> diddledan: But there's a cable involved and infrastructure, I don't pay a separate cable fee and then broadband cost
<diddledan> no, but you also don't have a phone service
<ali1234> you used to when it was NTL
<penguin42> diddledan: I could get a phone service from them if I wanted to
<diddledan> no phone service, no charge. have a phone service have a charge. simple.
<diddledan> the problem isn't about "hidden costs" as the CAB claim - it's that you are required to have a voice service to be connected into the broadband network
<penguin42> diddledan: But Sky/etc's total costs have many components - why do they call out just the line entry?
<penguin42> diddledan: No you are NOT required to have a voice service to have broadband
<diddledan> penguin42: only if you get virgin
<penguin42> diddledan: No
<penguin42> diddledan: There are ISPs who on BT equipment make the voice separate; BT charge them separately
<diddledan> my point is for a bt line you need to pay a line-rental. moaning that is pointless
<diddledan> it doesn't matter who makes the final bill out, someone has to pay bt for the line. the fact you have broadband on-top of that line isn't BT's fault.
<penguin42> diddledan: but it's just one wholesale component - like the cost to run a call centre or the bandwidth they buy off anyone else, and the line rental charges aren't all the same
<diddledan> I fail to see what you're trying to argue
<penguin42> diddledan: I'm saying that the price they advertise should be the bottom line figure that a customer has to pay to get it
<penguin42> diddledan: including everything
<diddledan> I'm moaning that the CAB are moaning about line rental being a "hidden cost" when it isn't
<penguin42> I'm saying that they it is being hidden
<diddledan> but it isn't
<penguin42> it is
<diddledan> you don't have to pay sky for your line rental to have sky broadband
<penguin42> you see these big banners with 'only Â£... a month' and then you have to compare everything else
<diddledan> sky list the charges they will make
<diddledan> sky don't care what your line rental costs when you're paying BT directly
<penguin42> diddledan: but the amount each company charges for BT line rental isn't the same
<penguin42> diddledan: Oh hang on, not all these companies expect you to pay BT for a BT line, some of them it all goes through the ISP
<diddledan> so you shop around for the cheapest BT line. then you shop around for a broadband to go on-top
<penguin42> diddledan: No, it doesn't work like that
<penguin42> diddledan: You can't mix line rentals from different companies with broadband from different companies
<diddledan> yes you can
<penguin42> diddledan: If you could then I'd agree
<diddledan> simplest example is BT phone line paid to BT and AAISP as your broadband
<penguin42> diddledan: OK, but what about AA supplied BT copper pair and AA as your ISP
<penguin42> diddledan: No voice
<penguin42> diddledan: I'm pretty sure you can't order that off AA and then get sky to do the broadband
<diddledan> eww @ huge moth
 * penguin42 hands diddledan a huge slipper
<diddledan> lol @ how that can be read: 'Satya Nadella, chief executive, said: "Our approach to investing in areas where we have differentiation and opportunity is paying off with Surface, Xbox, Bing, Office 365, Azure and Dynamics CRM Online all growing by at least double-digits."' <-- double digits - they've got 10 new customers
<penguin42> diddledan: http://aaisp.net/broadband-prices.html says 'You can pay us for a phone line, per phone line, or pay someone else, e.g. BT, if you prefer. You then pay us per line for broadband on that line'  so the price of getting 'the line' varies, and since it varies it seems worth including
<diddledan> I've had my moan. now I'm taking my ball and going home :-p
<penguin42> haha
<diddledan> you can all try to play without it
<diddledan> https://twitter.com/cardealersau/status/623591888961056768
 * awilkins hates all that stupid bundling
<awilkins> "Can I get rid of the TV package to save money?"  / " You can get rid of it but the service is still the same price"   / "Isn't that illegal under EU law?"  / "Yes it is but we don't care so yah boo sucks to you."
<diddledan> awilkins: yeah virgin have a weird pricing scheme
<diddledan> hmm
<diddledan> he done died?
<penguin42> nod
 * penguin42 just has the virgin broadband
 * diddledan hides mr stabby
<diddledan> ditto
<diddledan> I moved from sky phone + sky broadband + sky tv + sky movies to just virgin broadbent
<diddledan> 152Mbit ftw
 * penguin42 is on the bottom notch
<penguin42> 50Mbitish
<diddledan> yeah - that's still faster than standard fttc on a bt line
<diddledan> 40 is the base model there
<penguin42> I think they advertise 70Mbps fttc on some - but I can't get fttc here
<diddledan> and for some reason they top out at 76 when the carrier is actually capable of 80
<penguin42> perhaps you have slightly wider bits down there
<diddledan> lol
<penguin42> diddledan: Down at the 50Mbps rate the cost to get the TV is quite a bit
<diddledan> the twitter I posted just now - internet-connected infotainment system in jeeps can be used to remotely control the vehicle, but to fix it an owner needs to download a patch and manually apply it - why can't it download the patch itself?!
<diddledan> it's connected to the net so it is capable
<diddledan> I'm still waiting for the day when you're driving along the motorway at 70 and the car decides to reboot for a patchfix
<penguin42> good question, perhaps it's not supposed to be able to get to any of the firmware via the net
<diddledan> well the hackers can steer the car from the internet. I hardly see it as a big leap to suggest that the thing can use that connection to update itself
<diddledan> the big question is why the infotainment system is even connected to the steering wheel and brakes
<diddledan> (they can disable the brakes)
<penguin42> because they share a CANbus
<penguin42> diddledan: It's pretty common, people have been warning about it for many years
<diddledan> I don't know what one of those is
 * diddledan googles
<penguin42> diddledan: Digital bus for cars and other control systems
<penguin42> diddledan: so they dont have to run a separate wire for every item
<diddledan> don't you love this sentence?: "The software security update, provided at no cost to customers"
<diddledan> I bleeding well would hope it is free!
<penguin42> yeh look how greatful you should be
<diddledan> "do you care about your family? are you worried that hackers can kill you? dial 1-800-DONT-HACK and our helpful advisors will guide you through the payment and installation of the required security patch"
<diddledan> "note, failure to apply the patch may result in your death."
<diddledan> "the company can not be held liable for defects in the patch"
<diddledan> "or your death"
<penguin42> you see the demo I'd do with it would be to get 50 of them doing a choreographed routine in a huge parking lot somewhere
<diddledan> lol
<penguin42> or maybe 500
<diddledan> hijack randoms off the road to do so
<penguin42> well, personally I wouldn't
<diddledan> (as they're innocently driving past)
<diddledan> "here comes one now. penetrate it's firewall and tag the driver so we can follow his porn"
<diddledan> or some other hollywoodism
<diddledan> speaky of which, I've got some csi:cyb0r to watch
<diddledan> oh, and apparently hacking an adultary website is deemed cyber-terrorism now
<diddledan> (well the adultery site seems to think so)
<shauno> that's a weird one.  they're easy to laugh at due to the nature of the site, but if you ignore that part, it's starts sounding pretty evil
<diddledan> seems they had a sevice that you could pay them $20 to have your data deleted, but they didn't do the deletion?
<diddledan> I wonder if they comply with EU data-protection law that requires businesses to delete data when requested (I don't know whether the EU requires this service to be free, but I would expect so)?
<diddledan> I seen some funny comments about the possibility of it being an inside job - to the effect that they are complaining about someone violating their trust when that's their entire premise
<mappps> hi all
<diplo_> Morning
<bashrc_> morning
<MooDoo> morning all
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<MooDoo> morning mate
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo
 * brobostigon walks around the room showing everyone proudly his new pebble.
<davmor2> Morning all
<brobostigon> morning davmor2
<davmor2> diddledan, MooDoo: An oldie today for Some reason I couldn't shake the YMCA out of my head this morning :)
<foobarry> android 5 stock doesn't have a call blocker :(
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Hammock Day! ð
<bashrc> ZZZzzz
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<bigcalm> A hammock would be nice
<davmor2> JamesTait: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o28LTvbyiT4
<davmor2> A song for all occasions, that's me :)
<MooDoo> howdy bigcalm davmor2
<davmor2> MooDoo: Morning me owld mucka did you sort out your ssh issue?
<zmoylan-pi> we need a new hammock with facilities for keyboard and charge point :-)
<popey> bigcalm: pebble time?
<popey> er, brobostigon pebble time?
<MooDoo> davmor2: nah, still can't login, not to worry it's a vm i can rebuild it only had a MC server on it, had a gluster problem last night deleted everything glad I just backed up my qcow2 files :D
<brobostigon> popey: pebble steel, and my gf is getting my original red pebble, we decided when she offered to get me a new one, pebble time was too expensive.
<popey> steel has longer battery life than time, righT?
<brobostigon> time has a digger battery than the older og/steel pebble.
<brobostigon> bigger*
<popey> oh, you didnt get a pebble time steel?
<popey> you got an old pebble?
<brobostigon> time steel is even more expensive, than the plain time,
<popey> sure, it's newer :)
<popey> and colour \o/
<brobostigon> my theory is, i think she wanted me to have a smarter watch, hence og steel, rather than the 80's throwback as it has been described the plain og pebble.
<bashrc> apparently, pebbles don't contain heart monitors
<brobostigon> that they dont.
<bashrc> I was reading a while ago that if you combine heart rate and motion it might be possible to detect sleep phases
<brobostigon> a haeart monitor is a gimmick, all examples i have seen, dont work properly, if you want something with that function, get something more specialised for the job/
<shauno> mine seems to work fine
<brobostigon> which smartwatch and OS?
<shauno> apple on os2beta4
<bashrc> it would be nice to do things like having clothing or jewelry change colour or pattern depending on your temperature and heart rate
<brobostigon> shauno: i see.
<bashrc> and I suppose the logical site to measure heart rate is on a watch (pulse)
<popey> the pebble time has a port that additional bits can be added to, such as this
<brobostigon> i have been thinking about ideas, to do with that port on pebble time.
 * zmoylan-pi pictures some sort of sensor attached to gloves to count the punches required in hand to hand combat on public transport... :-p
<brobostigon> lolz.
<zmoylan-pi> though you could do that with just the acceleramoter if it has one...
<brobostigon> which most do, yes.
<zmoylan-pi> you'd only need it for the arm not wearing a watch... :-)
<brobostigon> a wii controller in the right hand.?
<zmoylan-pi> those are expspensive to replace and the straps may not prevent it leaving you hand if all those pics of broken tvs are to be believed :-)
<brobostigon> good points.
<zmoylan-pi> cheaper to use a  prepay android phone in your fist linked to the pebble...
<zmoylan-pi> just make a bubble wrap case :-)
<brobostigon> bounce, bounce.
<brobostigon> bounce,
<brobostigon> splat.
<shauno> http://www.knucklecase.com  ?
<zmoylan-pi> if only the pebble could talk to nokia dumbphone.  that might qualify as a weapon though if used in fist during fight... :-)
<brobostigon> zmoylan-pi: the basics of communicating with the pebble is fairly straightforward, i am sure if someone wanted, sw could be designed for it.
<zmoylan-pi> problem is that the nokia dumbphones don't multitask so you'd need a very low level program written for it.  could be done but so expensive it never will
<intrbiz> well, that was a PITA, en_gb not existing by default "to save disk space"
<davmor2> intrbiz: on what?
<intrbiz> ubuntu 14.04 LTS, having to run 'locale-gen' was somewhat unexpected
<intrbiz> coupled with the error message not being logged
<davmor2> intrbiz: anything in /var/crash/
<intrbiz> nah, wasn't a crash, merely the init scripts not logging the output of pg_ctl, so had to manually start to find the problem
<davmor2> intrbiz: it should log it somewhere, I've no idea where like but it should :)
<shauno> ugh.  someone keeps jumping on my name the moment I disconnect.  utter pain.
<ujjain> Password is expired, but I can log in via private key, but another user can't?
<ujjain> The users don't even have a password set and are said their password is expired, errr.
<shauno> they're often the same thing
<shauno> "no password" can be either a blank password, or a locked account.  locked usually just means putting the expiry date in the past
<davmor2> shauno: or locking the account
<shauno> sometimes I forget why I don't like helping with flossy stuff.
<zmoylan-pi> but if you have a problem with an 8" floppy drive shauno is your mammal :-p
<ujjain> alcohol is probably bad when you are recovering from a cold, right? there's this nice thing, but I have to be in shape for a festival Friday too
<ujjain> shauno, it's not locked, it's expired,
<ujjain> i'll try to figure it out later, I thought if yo uuse private keys, shouldn't be affected,
<davmor2> popey: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQC7dweRTKU
<mappps> fun
<mappps> apartment viewing
<mappps> 2 apartments ..hopefully be able to get it done quickly
<ujjain> chage says Password expires: Jul 07, 2015 ... but there is no password even in /etc/shadow... aaargh
<ujjain> then why "You are required to change your password immediately (password aged)"...
<dwatkins> ujjain: booze will probably impede the immune system
<ujjain> yeah, I guess bettter to recover, although some days get a bit boring
<daftykins> if you find days are boring without drinking, you may have bigger problems than a cold ;)
<shauno> well, we were all thinking it, so someone had to
<ujjain> uh, we have a team outing today
<ujjain> it's always a lot of fun
<ujjain> staying home many days in a row is less fun, for a few days is fine though
<dwatkins> our team outing is in the middle of my holiday, so I can't go :'(
<daftykins> oops!
<zmoylan-pi> take a holiday during your holiday to meet up with them on their outing... :-)
<dwatkins> there's no way I'm coming back from France just to go to see a play and have a couple drinks on my boss ;)
<penguin42> being around 200 miles from my nearest other team member, I don't have that problem
<daftykins> aww you should meet up :)
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/gs1mrdfqvrikf64/Mischief.jpg?dl=0
<daftykins> my cat is enjoying the sun greatly today
<zmoylan-pi> recharging
<daftykins> yip :)
<zmoylan-pi> cats are solar powered
<daftykins> unless it's the competitive kind of doping cats, high on catnip
<penguin42> daftykins: You could paint a few black splodges on that wall so it could camoflage itself
<daftykins> haha
<zmoylan-pi> cats don't need assistance to stealth.  i've seen a tortishell hide in plain sight lying in the sun
<penguin42> how bizarre; Amazon are listing a b&w laser for Â£16.61 - and Â£76.69 delivery (from Italy)
<penguin42> I guess that might not be an insane cost from Italy for delivery
<zmoylan-pi> they have to sneak it by roman galley past the carthaginians hence the cost :-)
<penguin42> nod, the last 3 were eaten by lions
<zmoylan-pi> well lasers... cats...
<penguin42> hmm a few of this thing showing up - I wonder if this is an effect of a low euro, so we're seeing a lot of European products show up in price sorts
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi, penguin42: everyone in europe has to send things through Greece to help them pay off their debt
<davmor2> would of â¬5 otherwise
<davmor2> s/of/of benn
<davmor2> been even
<shauno> I'd be tempted to have a holiday there, but they cranked the VAT up
<daftykins> would have been (:
<shauno> I've been looking at boat rentals, and spain is cheaper atm.  quite counter-intuitive
<TwistedLucidity> shauno: Didn't think the VAT increase had had a *huge* effect. Seemed to just be the odd euro here or there.
<TwistedLucidity> Although I guess boat rental is a high-ticket item, so could hurt.
<shauno> a 10% increase adds up quickly
<shauno> (on the other hand, I find it unfathomable that it was previously 13%.  no wonder the coffers are dry)
<penguin42> shauno: Well at one point not that long ago our VAT was down at that level; but I don't have much sympathy if they're that broke that they don't put it up
<TwistedLucidity> 13% is OK if you have enough money moving and people aren't siphoning it off into secret accounts....
<penguin42> there was an interesting article I saw saying that the Â£60/day limit didn't extend to credit and debit cards, so there was a lot of buying of high value goods
<daftykins> i enjoy being VAT free (:
<daftykins> just a shame Google, Microsoft and Apple typically don't like to acknowledge we exist
<TwistedLucidity> You can bet that, despite the rhetoric, large amounts of the money passed through the City of London unchecked.
<TwistedLucidity> daftykins: Where's "we"?
 * penguin42 hopes some of it stopped here so it can pay our taxes...
<daftykins> Channel Islands
<daftykins> or rather the Bailiwick of Guernsey specifically, as i think Jersey has a 5% GST
<TwistedLucidity> So..."daftykins Trust LLC" :-D
<shauno> does that mean that if I buy something in guernsey, I'd be due import duty here?
<TwistedLucidity> shauno: Not 100% sure, wiki implies not https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VAT-free_imports_from_the_Channel_Islands#Channel_Islands
 * penguin42 can't remember the trick they used to stop all the CD/DVDs being delivered from there
<TwistedLucidity> shauno: When I was importing bike parts from the USA, the HMRC phoneline was actually really helpful.
<TwistedLucidity> penguin42: I think it was "Oi! Just gonnae no?"
<penguin42> TwistedLucidity/shauno: For a long time a lot of the discount CD/DVD vendors were based there
<TwistedLucidity> penguin42: Yeah, I think Amazon or someone was involved. Trading name of "Blackstar" ISTRC
<penguin42> TwistedLucidity: Oh yeh, as was Play.com and a few others
<shauno> I think being in the republic would complicate that, since we have no relationship with the smaller islands
<penguin42> shauno: I'm not sure, it's an odd setup, because they're members of the EU
<TwistedLucidity> If they are considered part of the EU for duty purposes; I doubt there's much the South can do.
<TwistedLucidity> And sorry, I assumed you were UK.
<shauno> no worries, it's a fair enough assumption in here :)
<popey> Asus Nvidia GeForce GTX 750 Ti - worth getting over my current 460?
<popey> http://gpuboss.com/gpus/GeForce-GTX-750-Ti-vs-GeForce-GTX-460
<popey> hmmm
<davmor2> MooDoo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQC7dweRTKU :)
<daftykins> popey: nah
<popey> nah?
<daftykins> i don't think it's enough of a step up
<daftykins> maybe if it were free :>
<awilkins> I'm contemplating a 980Ti
<awilkins> Of course, that's an absurd death machine of a GPU
<bigcalm> For a moment I thought you were talking about a calculator
<awilkins> If excellent graphics kills people, it's probably the Hitler of GPUs.
<awilkins> With the Titan X being the current Ghengis Khan or whoever killed more people as a fraction of the human population than Hitler
<brobostigon> how much do roses cost these days?
<penguin42> the packs have got smaller over the years, but it's not great chocolate....
<brobostigon> its my and my gf's two year anniversary this weekend, sortof.
<davmor2> brobostigon: more than a pound and less than a million
<brobostigon> eeeek, :(
<davmor2> brobostigon: I guess it depends on where you live, how many and type
<penguin42> and whether you nick them from the neighbours garden
<brobostigon> north oxfordshire.
<davmor2> I wolves I can get Velvet Crush at Â£3 a rose so a dozen would be Â£36
<davmor2> In wolves even
<brobostigon> better queston being, are flowers still an appropriate thing.?
<directhex> IME girls want RAM.
<directhex> http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2000/12/22/i-mean-who-doesnt
<brobostigon> RAM ?
<shauno> I never saw the value in finding some living organisms, beheading them and presenting their corpses to rot before you as a gift.  but disclaimer, I don't understand women at all.
<brobostigon> i think i have that advantage, of better memory, my aspieness remebers almost every moment of most days, :(
<davmor2> brobostigon: Flowers/Chocolate/Perfume/Jewellery/Evening Out always with a card, I think are all valid
<brobostigon> are you aspie shauno ?
<brobostigon> davmor2: ok cool, ty.
<shauno> not that I know of
<brobostigon> shauno: most NT people wouldnt have analysed it how you just did in my experience.
<davmor2> brobostigon: Note the Always with a CARD! bit otherwise you get the 3rd degree,  with a card it's a special occasion so allowed :)
<brobostigon> davmor2: i see, so i get her a special card, like something handmade?
<davmor2> brobostigon: Yeah or just a standard Anniversary card, just not a numbered one :)
<brobostigon> davmor2: of course not a numbered one, they wont exist. got you, i think i understand.
<diddledan> ello
 * brobostigon is sad, he is listening to ELO.
<penguin42> Mr Blue Skies?
<shauno> how could that possibly make him sad?
<brobostigon> its something thats bad music, but is also strangly likable.
<shauno> bad?!
<brobostigon> POv, yes.
<penguin42> bad music ?! Tsk - I like ELO
#ubuntu-uk 2015-07-23
<mappps> hi all
<knightwise> morning
<knightwise> how are you mappps
<mappps> hey.all good..you?
<mappps> was watching suits;]
<knightwise> just watched ep 4 of mr robot over breakfast
<mappps> ah cool
<mappps> like it?
<knightwise> its ... strange
<mappps> heh
<knightwise> there are a lot of cool geeky references in it but .. The story is very bizarre
<mappps> yea
<mappps> must remember dont mention what i have
<mappps> someone at work wanted to borrow one of my laptops...as he broke his
<mappps> I HATE lending electronics out
<mappps> hate hate hat
<mappps> e
<knightwise> i never lend out hardware
<mappps> come back damaged or something
<mappps> yea why cant he just buy one for goodness sake
<mappps> laptops are cheap as these days
<knightwise> true.
<mappps> 'oh you have 2 with you ..cant be doing anything'
<mappps> so i had to format and reinstall..not giving someone a machine i use
<mappps> dont want people snooping around
<knightwise> mappps: I laugh in their face when people say that
<knightwise> i'm an IT guy .. buy your own machine
<mappps> ya
<mappps> i paid 349 for my lenovo i3 months back
<mappps> just buy one for 300 or 250
<mappps> hardly a lot
<knightwise> yep .. if its not important enough to buy your own ... you don't need one
<mappps> he just wanted it for the net he says
<mappps> i said if it comes back damaged in any way i dont want to HEAR ANY excuses
<mappps> i gave it to him in perfect condition and i want it back the same
<mappps> fair imo
<knightwise> tell him to go buy a friggin chromebook :)
<mappps> ja
<knightwise> go surf porn on his own machine
<mappps> heh
<knightwise> I bet you didn't want that mental image stuck in your head did ya
<mappps> heh
<mappps> watching mr robot e5 atm:D
<mappps> might go to the fair tonight
<mappps> ferriea
<knightwise> ep 5 ,
<knightwise> thats fresh , gonna get that
<mappps> ;]
<knightwise> incoming :)
<knightwise> ok , the nagiospi i built is working pretty smoothly :)
<knightwise>  its currently monitoring my websites and all of my internal network devices and servers
<mappps> whts that
<mappps> actually think i lookd at it nagios monitorring thing?
<mappps> couldnt get it to work
<knightwise> it was pretty ok , i just copied the image to the pi , booted it up and added a couple of hosts via the web interface
<diplo> Morning all
<knightwise> hey diplo
<MooDoo> morning all
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<knightwise> hey MooDoo , brobostigon
<brobostigon> hi knightwise
<knightwise> I wonder if sourceforge is back up today
<knightwise> need to figure something out in the Nagios Documentation
<MooDoo> knightwise: yeah it's been down a few days now hasn't it
<TwistedLucidity> knightwise: It was up on Monday for me
<TwistedLucidity> And it was up yesterday as I had to grab hp-lip
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<Myrtti_> trying to plan a honeymoon sucks
<bigcalm> Myrtti_: go for an all inclusive package somewhere. Let other people have that organising stress
<Myrtti_> bigcalm: too late for that, we have booked the flights (but nothing else) already
<bigcalm> Hayley and I did a coach trip to Belgium as our mini-moon and then a cruise to Norway the following year as our proper honeymoon
<Myrtti_> glorious Virgin Atlantic Premium Economy, yeah baby yeah!
<Myrtti_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J2HBdRCroks mwhahahaha
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Gorgeous Grandma Day! ð
<bigcalm> Grandma, we love you
<bigcalm> Grandma, we do
<JamesTait> https://youtu.be/g5TVKhjEVtQ
 * zmoylan-pi hums matchstick men and matchstick cats & dogs to get grandad earworm out of my head.
 * awilkins puts on Tay Tay v.loud
<Myrtti_> np. Darude - Sandstorm âª
<davmor2> Morning all
<davmor2> JamesTait: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VtymNiYlSD4
<davmor2> Morning head song today bow wow wow I want Cnady no idea where that got dredged up from but added to the list \o/
<davmor2> Candy even
<TwistedLucidity> Well that's weird. The first window of a byobu session connected from cywin won't accept Shift-Fn etc; and the Fn keys don't work at all from mRemoteNG.
<TwistedLucidity> I blame Windows.
<zmoylan-pi> well windows and function keys are weird now as some laptops think that function keys are for using browser and changing the volume...
<TwistedLucidity> That's more a fault of the OEMs
<TwistedLucidity> When I demove byobu the guy using the Mac had loads of trouble with the key-combos.
<zmoylan-pi> true but ms could say stop that silliness if they weren't obsessed with adding more keys to keyboard with windows logo on it
<Myrtti_> in case someone is looking into buying stylish mens flight socks, Nabee has a -50% sale on mens' sizes. http://nabeesocks.com/collections/mens?mc_cid=9f192b77a2&mc_eid=6b32bf68c6
<TwistedLucidity> Are those really compression hose?
<Myrtti_> the markings on my legs after wearing them say yes
<Myrtti_> (I've used them for years)
<TwistedLucidity> Ah, it only says that on the front page
<TwistedLucidity> Meh, I get up and walk around. I do have Falke compression socks for the m'cycle though
<Myrtti_> I've got elevated risk for DVI so I have ten pairs in my sock drawer and only some single pairs of woollen and normal bamboo socks
<TwistedLucidity> Practice your handstands in th aisle!
<Myrtti_> I wear them all the time...
<arsenip> have to say i have a pile of compression socks at home
<arsenip> from flying lots, and never wearing them.
<zmoylan-pi> just remember NOT to use them as disguise if robbing a post office :-p
<Myrtti_> kek
<TwistedLucidity> Hmm...when I fire eth1, I lose DNS on eth0. Odd.
<TwistedLucidity> "fire up"
<foobarry> whats the deal with flash now using firefox?
<foobarry> is there a way to get it up to date and working ?
<foobarry> it complains all the time now
<penguin42> the update that came out a couple of days ago should be fine
<foobarry> flash update or firefox?
<penguin42> flash
<foobarry> thx
<penguin42> but for goodness sake - always run all your updates!
<foobarry> The following packages will be upgraded: firefox firefox-locale-en flashplugin-installer gimp-gmic google-chrome-stable libmysqlclient18 linux-generic
<foobarry> cool. tried a couple days ago and wasn't there
<foobarry> thx
<TwistedLucidity> Huzzah! DNS works, now I just have a routing problem...
<TwistedLucidity> I've had continual issues with Flash over the last few weeks. Keep getting whinges that "flashplugin-installer" has permanent failures.
<TwistedLucidity> It needs to die. And die now.
<penguin42> yes a couple of cases where I've had to rerun the flashplugin-installer - I think it downloads from archives.canonical.om and occasionally has problems on it
<TwistedLucidity> And now DNS is goosed again. I hate networking.
<davmor2> TwistedLucidity: will you leave poor DNS alone, the poor Girl, Weird name though ;)
 * knightwise conforts DNS with coffee and a cookie ... there there poor DNS...
<knightwise> The nerve some people have ! Namecalling a Nameserver..
<davmor2> knightwise: sounds welsh all consonants and no vowels
<andrewebdev> clear
<andrewebdev> oops
<andrewebdev> forgot I'm not in a terminal there
<davmor2> D'oh
<foobarry> /clear
 * knightwise puts back the defibrilator pads ... :(
<bigcalm> cls
 * zmoylan-pi hands knightwise the overcharged cattle prod...
<davmor2> No command 'cls' found, but there are 20 similar ones
<davmor2> cls: command not found
<zmoylan-pi> <cr> about 25 times does the trick :-)
<penguin42> ctrl-l
<davmor2> reset
<knightwise> Offers davmor2 the kaddleprod .. wantit ?
<davmor2> knightwise: I already have one :D
<popey> knightwise: which microsoft surface did you have ubuntu on? and is it reliable / decent battery life / keyboard just work etc?
<knightwise> popey: i installed it on the surface pro 1 , everything including the keyboard worked out fo the box
<knightwise> but the wifi was not very reliable. sometimes I had speeddrops :(
<knightwise> but for the rest batterly life and everything is a-ok
<zmoylan-pi> didn't you mention a problem with suspend?
<knightwise> Suspend was ok
<andrewebdev> sigh, for some reason Chrome browser is broken today. Completely crashes ubuntu, can't even ctrl-alt-f1
<penguin42> andrewebdev: Have you done any graphics driver updates?
<andrewebdev> nope, just ran my ubuntu updates as usual
<awilkins> Some el-cheapo Dell android tabs, might make a good experimentation platform : http://outlet.euro.dell.com/Online/InventorySearch.aspx?c=uk&cs=ukdfh1&l=en&s=dfh&brandid=8&dgc=BA&cid=285804&lid=5512262&acd=25789212634496260
<awilkins> Wowzer, include ones with the LTE chipset for Â£75
<penguin42> awilkins: The intel tablets vary a bit in how fiddleable with they are
<penguin42> awilkins: I know there is someone who got it working on the next gen Dell Venue 8's
<penguin42> ^it^Fedora
<andrewebdev> although it must be a graphical issue because chrome has multiple graphics glitches, right before it crashes. like black menus (literally just a black box)
<awilkins> andrewebdev, Is it because of WEbGL rendering?
<awilkins> Which GPU / drivers are you on?
<popey> awilkins: yeah, looking for something cheap / 2nd hand
<popey> blimey, those are cheap
<popey> ugh Intel HD Graphics (Imagination PowerVR G6400)
<penguin42> yeh
<mappps> gah
<mappps> enquired about an apartment yesterday and asked for a viewing
<mappps> gone today after she said we could view it later
<mappps> hate moving..hate flats
<mappps> much preferred my own house;/
<foobarry> on 12.04, if i have linux-headers-generic-lts-raring and saucy and trusty, can i remove the raring meta package?
<foobarry> seems OK
<foobarry> ..
<davmor2> foobarry: should be fine, in theory it would be like removing a previous kernel iirc
<foobarry> of which if have about 100
<foobarry> autoremove hasn't been keeping up
<davmor2> foobarry: autoremove never removed old kernels till 14.04 iirc
<foobarry> orly?
<davmor2> foobarry: you would have to remove the main kernel package for each and then autoremove should clear it iirc
<foobarry> email from caonical "Upcomming Events" tut tut
<popey> oh jeez
<bashrc_> anything exciting?
<foobarry> nothing local
<foobarry> containercon
<foobarry> turns out its a tupperware party
<bashrc_> heh
<TwistedLucidity> foobarry: That's because they know you are super excited to know what's happening. Tell all your friends!
 * TwistedLucidity spent a large part of yesterday un-subing from various spam-lists I am certain I never sub'ed to.
<diddledan> evening
 * diddledan watching mr robot
<mappps> hmm
<mappps> what site to look for to find a guide ..for a whole day
<mappps> escorts brings up different;p
<diddledan> lmao
<mappps> i want a guide for 3-5 days in kiev
<mappps> average wage like $240/month so
<diddledan> mappps: an escort might guide you in something
<mappps> i figure even $50  day would be good for them?
<mappps> dont wanna get stuck going to tourist only places
<diddledan> mr robot is awesome
<diddledan> it's dark and yet somehow hopeful
<diddledan> there's a new episode airing today according to my scheduler, so that'll download later I guess
<DJones> mappps: Just stand in the middle of red square and shout down with putin, I'm sure you'll see parts of russia that aren;t on the tourist track
<mappps> heh
<mappps> im going ukraine not russia
<mappps> ;p
<mappps> diddledan,  the story line is kinda odd at times.no?
<DJones> Ah well, shout "up with putin" in ukraine then
<diddledan> DJones: up the british monarchy. <-- and up yours
<Laney> up the bracket
<zmoylan-pi> up the dubs! :-p
 * diddledan rubs a dub
<diddledan> rub a dub dub
 * DJones would rub a duck, but the dogs running round with it
 * zmoylan-pi passes over my rubber duck
<penguin42> mappps: Ask a taxi driver?
<diddledan> surely those escorts he googled will be suitable, no?
<diddledan> nothing like a local chick that you're paying for sex with to show you the town
<daftykins> diddledan: your... scheduler? :>
<diddledan> daftykins: it tells when things are due to air for the first time. then it sneakily goes and downloads a copy
<diddledan> it's really quite a norty program
<daftykins> tsk tsk
<daftykins> i have a you know what client that watches a private RSS feed to do the same
<diddledan> I know, I've told it off several times but it refuses to not download copies
<daftykins> see that odd story claiming some co. asked google to takedown 127.0.0.1:4000 for having a copy of Jurassic World? :>
<diddledan> hmm, nope
<diddledan> lol
<zmoylan-pi> poor universal
<zmoylan-pi> trying to catch up with sony
<diddledan> why is it that when you decide to watch netflix you, instead of actually watching anything, just scroll through endlessly and then give up?
 * diddledan sings "scrollin' scrollin' scrollin'. keep them thumbnails movin'. netflix!"
<zmoylan-pi> confucious say man with one book knows what to read ban with huge library can never decide
<zmoylan-pi> *man with huge
<diddledan> man with huge!?!
<diddledan> lucky fella
<diddledan> this one sounds fun: cybergeddon
<diddledan> low-budget hacker movies ftw
<diddledan> let's see just how wacky they idea of hacking is
<zmoylan-pi> favourite hacker movies.. 1) malcolm 2) hackers...
<diddledan> hackers is so terrible it's awesome
<zmoylan-pi> and hackers is only there for great sound track
<zmoylan-pi> malcolm has better sound track
<diddledan> hackers has gone from the worst depiction to absolutely epic
<diddledan> I don't think I've seen malcolm
<zmoylan-pi> it's a great hacker movie with no computers whatsoever
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> well that's not fun then
<zmoylan-pi> http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0091464/ trust me you'll love it
<zmoylan-pi> a robbery committed by drones
<zmoylan-pi> if you don't fall out of your chair laughing i'll owe you â¬1
<diddledan> omg. that's a hell of a wager
<zmoylan-pi> i feel safe :-)
<diddledan> I wonder what a spoof movie of the fifth element would be like with the title "the fifth elephant"
<penguin42> you mean Fifth element wasn't a spoof?
<diddledan> well I suppose it used to be, but it's transcended into folklore now
<diddledan> it's always fun to see bruce's willi doing something fun
<diddledan> hmm, double "fun"
<diddledan> replace the second "fun" with "silly"
<diddledan> that works
<diddledan> I wonder if that means I'm in america? netflix is letting me play the expendables 3
#ubuntu-uk 2015-07-24
<diddledan> lol @ https://twitter.com/pinkyswearing/status/623596946490429440 (swearing ahead!)
<zmoylan-pi> well there was the discworld book the fifth elephant
<diddledan> google states the obvious: http://googlewebmastercentral.blogspot.co.uk/2015/07/google-case-study-on-app-download-interstitials.html
<diddledan> my mac has a process called "lsd"
<diddledan> o_O
<diddledan> I wonder if it's psychedelic
<diddledan> hungry
<mappps> hej
<mappps> morning
<knightwise> Morning peeps
<mappps> hey knightwise
<MooDoo> morning all
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<bashrc> morning
<davmor2> Morning all
<davmor2> MooDoo, diddledan: Good one this morning, bloodhound gang The Bad Touch
<davmor2> popey: MooDoo: I just remember about this song https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h61QG4s0I3U  and  popey no it's not 80 or even 90's :P
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<popey> yo
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Friday, and happy Tequila Day! ð
<JamesTait> davmor2, https://youtu.be/8hLQCA2h8kA
<brobostigon> morning popey
<davmor2> JamesTait: I forgot that one I was thinking this one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVyZVd9AuGo
<JamesTait> What is that noise?
<davmor2> JamesTait: Ofcourse when it comes to drinking songs you can't beat this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RTjC6rxHz8g
<zmoylan-pi> and remember if you celebrate tequila day that tequila is for a night out but a tattoo is forever :-p
<JamesTait> davmor2, but it doesn't have tequila. At least I don't think it does.
<zmoylan-pi> unless you have access to serious laser...
<davmor2> JamesTait: I know, it's a shame
<bigcalm> If I do ctrl-alt-1, is there a way to undo the window alteration without getting my mouse out to move it to restore previous size and location?
<davmor2> bigcalm: what happens if you press the key combo again
<bigcalm> davmor2: nothing
<davmor2> bigcalm: http://askubuntu.com/questions/28086/what-are-unitys-keyboard-and-mouse-shortcuts
<bigcalm> davmor2: ta
<bigcalm> I have the domain name winningnumbersapp.com. I've done nothing with it and it's due to expire 2015-08-19. Anybody want me to transfer it to them before it expires and is open to carpet baggers?
 * zmoylan-pi imagines a fortune cookie random lottery number generator for people lucky lottery numbers with repeated and impossible numbers just for the helluva it... :-p your luck numbers are 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 and -72
<bigcalm> sqr(-1)
<zmoylan-pi> 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1 and 2
<zmoylan-pi> bonus points for making this weeks numbers be last weeks winning numbers
<TwistedLucidity> Shameless plug: https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/3efo2f (LinuxBierWanderung 2015 in Wiltz, Luxembourg)
<diddledan> interesting thoughts on AI https://www.microsoft.com/en-gb/developers/articles/week01apr15/her-cortana-and-artificial-intelligence-could-you-fall-in-love-with-an-operating-system/?CR_CC=200438481%3FWT.mc_id%3DCRM_DX_FY15_MAAlwaysON_EMAIL_11711002_5269_5402878
<zmoylan-pi> an m$ operating system? ;-)
<TwistedLucidity> zmoylan-pi: Abusive relationship?
<zmoylan-pi> they didn't call them punch cards on original computers for nothing...
<diddledan> http://bacronym.fail
<penguin42> diddledan: Doesn't resolve here
<diddledan> +k
<diddledan> backronym.fail
<penguin42> haha nice
<zmoylan-pi> when i first saw it thought it said bacon.fail  that doesn't even make sense, how can bacon fail??
<bashrc> under excessive load?
<zmoylan-pi> load bearing bacon...
<brobostigon> lolz
<bashrc> drive carefully
<zmoylan-pi> snap my rashers
<brobostigon> lolz * 2
<diddledan> bacon!
<diddledan> anywho, the backronym fail does appear to be a real vulnerability
<diddledan> argh, I've got bean on the brain doing mr boombastic
<penguin42> diddledan: I like his piss take on the need to have a backronym for it
<diddledan> aye
<diddledan> pretty meta to have a backronym called backronym :-p
<zmoylan-pi> mynorkcab.fail?
<penguin42> diddledan: Of course the problem is that the time to repair critical failures is going up as people have to figure out the backronym for the failure and design a scary website
<diddledan> penguin42: don't forget the logo
<penguin42> true
<daftykins> haha
<diddledan> morning daftykins
<daftykins> hallo o/
<daftykins> what's new? bit of a damp day here
<brobostigon> heavy rain all day here.
<diddledan> wet here too
<brobostigon> oh dear, apparently wont stop untill early tmrw morning.
<diddledan> "it was a moist night"
<directhex> MOIST
<daftykins> like good carrot cake
<diddledan> or american pie?
<brobostigon> intermittant dampness.
<diddledan> inappropriate dampness :-p
<brobostigon> i didnt think you could have described this persistant rain as inapropriate.
<brobostigon> interesting idea though.
<daftykins> anyone running wily? is it on a v4.0.9 kernel?
<daftykins> s/a/the/
 * diddledan plays with wily
 * diddledan wistles noncholantly
<diddledan> all family friendly, here, folks :-p
<diddledan> ooh, it's clocking-off time already
 * diddledan clocks-off
<diddledan> zzzzz
<diddledan> got work later tonight tho - patching gentoo (is that the correct plural of gentoo?)
<diddledan> one gentoo, many gentoo?
<daftykins> didn't you wake up at lunch? ;)
<daftykins> gentee? :D
<popey> Linux deep-thought 4.0.0-4-generic #6-Ubuntu SMP Tue Jun 30 20:49:28 UTC 2015 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux
<popey> on my wily laptop
<bashrc> gentii
<daftykins> popey: ty sir
<popey> not rebooted for a week though, so ...
<daftykins> i figure it usually stays on a main version?
<popey> linux-image-extra-4.1.0-2-generic is installed but not booted to it
<daftykins> just suggesting to someone to try a mainline kernel due to intel issues
<popey> .oO( I should reboot )
<popey> yeah, from the kernel ppa, wise
<diddledan> I need to commit to git
<diddledan> "do you, diddledan, take git to be your lawful source repository?"
<diddledan> no not commit in that sense! :-p
<daftykins> :D
<DJones> diddledan: I'm glad you didn't change the "re" to "su"
<diddledan> lol
<daftykins> don't give him ideas!
<mappps> yay
<mappps> got a viewing next wed
<mappps> apartment 2 mins from me
<mappps> could almost throw my stuff there
<daftykins> ;)
<mappps> Â£1150 a onth
<mappps> then Â£89 internet 100 fo water/elec roughly
<daftykins> maybe you can drop your tubes to a contract you get the speed of this time?
<mappps> yea
<mappps> i might half it
<mappps> 89 is quite a lot..no?
<daftykins> totally
<daftykins> well it might be ok if it really was the advertised speed :>
<mappps> yea
<mappps> living on y own again
<mappps> ahhh perfect
<DJones> mappps: Â£1150 per month?, what is it? 6 bedroom with en-suite +jacuzzi, gymn & pool? I pay <Â£400 to buy a 3 bedroom house
<diddledan> DJones: wow
<diddledan> that's cheap
<DJones> Yep
<daftykins> must be in a warzone :)
<mappps> hahahahahaha
<mappps> are you kidding DJones
<mappps> 1 bed pokey flat
<mappps> pool and squash courts
<mappps> 5min walk to work
<diddledan> pool and squash courts?!
<DJones> diddledan: Normal prices for here, I think we got in before morgages went silly
<diddledan> no wonder it's spensive
<mappps> ya
<mappps> 2 squash courts
<mappps> and a pool
<mappps> but no ac
<mappps> so i can lie in a pool of my sweat as normal
<mappps> lovely
<DJones> daftykins: Its 10 miles from liverpool..., so warzone isn't far off
<diddledan> \o/
<diddledan> warzone!
<diddledan> ftw!
<DJones> Saying that, crime reporting in the area consists of somebody trying to pinch the fake grass at the house over the road
<penguin42> doesn't think it would be much different across here in Manc
<mappps> but i have sun everyday
<mappps> and can walk to spain
<mappps> better than manc/lpool:D
<penguin42> mappps has a point
<mappps> 300 days of sun
<mappps> never need heating
<mappps> UK is a dump compared to here
<penguin42> can't you send us some of that over a VPN ?
<mappps> haha
<mappps> should come work here
<mappps> i earn a shed load
<mappps> live in the sun
<mappps> go on holiday 6x a year
<mappps> :P
<mappps> get around Â£3.6k after tax
<mappps> and Â£8-9k 2x a year with bonus
 * penguin42 checks the code of conduct for the terms about rubbing it in
<mappps> haha
<mappps> thats why i had to laugh when a guy i briefly know that works at the gym was trying to talk down to me and my job in front of his litle work mates
<mappps> 18k a year receptionist..yes youre successful at 35 pal
<mappps> his job is scanning my card giving me towels..wow
<hamitron> mappps, but he gets to look at all the hot chicks ofc
<hamitron> ;)
<mappps> yea il still pass
<mappps> pretending he lives the dream..hes one of the brits that comes to gib works in a nothing job
<mappps> and HAS to live in la linea
<mappps> (big big dump ) worst part of spain people say
<mappps> you can get a 3 bed for 400 euros..then come to gib Â£1200 for 1 bed lol
 * penguin42 guesses those are similar to London prices
 * hamitron waits for firefox to catch up (2 mins and counting)
<mappps> yea penguin42
<mappps> they are
<mappps> can get 2 bed for $1700 but i have noon to share with
<mappps> 1700
<mappps> my 'budget' was 1500 for myself
<penguin42> looks like you can get a 4 bed detached rental for 950GBP around here
<mappps> prob over 2.5k here
<penguin42> but I'm about 4 miles outside teh centre of the city
<diddledan> this is what the windows 10 dvd will look like: https://www.thurrott.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/media.jpg
<daftykins> diddledan: i guess it'll be too much to ask for it to be USB 3.0, but that'd be amazing
<diddledan> it's got a blue inner, which is the usual indicator that it's 3.0
<daftykins> yeah i did wonder
<daftykins> some nice read speeds to an SSD would be nice :>
<diddledan> aye
<diddledan> I really need an SSD in my desktop
<diddledan> it's sooo slow
<daftykins> what is your deskie spec again?
<diddledan> it's an AMD Bulldozer 8core thingy with 16 GB of thrust^H^HRAMs
<diddledan> I might upgrade soon
<penguin42> yeh I run the OS off an SSD - great improvement
<penguin42> OS and home, but then still have spinny rust for most of my projects
<diddledan> apparently the next iteration of amd cpu is going to move from their weird two-integer-one-fpu thingy to the hyperthready system that intel use
<DJones> diddledan: I use an SSD in may home laptop, unless you;'re worried about an extra 30 seconds bootingup, I haven't found any benefit at all,
<penguin42> ah good,  and the fab that AMD have access to have got much better I think since last time - so I hope they'll be a bit more competitive
<diddledan> aye
<diddledan> they're citing huge performance gains
<diddledan> but considering their complete no-show in terms of performance at the mo that might put them just behind intel :-p
<daftykins> SSDs do way more than boot up time
<diddledan> <random>I've got to collect a parcel tomorrow
<penguin42> DJones: Really? I find it way more responsive
<daftykins> my friend thats over atm has a Windows 7 bitlocker encrypted machine, high spec but it boots and logs in slower than mechanical =|
<DJones> penguin42: But once its booted up, I sthere areally a noticable difference in general use (web/email etc), I can't find any diffference
<daftykins> i figure it must not be a microsoft e-drive compatible setup, which uses the hardware controllers built in encryption capabilities
<daftykins> huge difference in every task for me :)
<diddledan> <continued random> the parcel has one of these thingies in it: http://www.kryoflux.com/
<penguin42> DJones: Maybe not for web, but starting applications etc
<diddledan> yeah, it's starting programs and bootup that I'm finding really painful
<diddledan> my other systems with SSD are much more usable
<DJones> penguin42: Might be the way I use my computer, I come home from work, switch it on, open irssi, pidgin, polly, email, there's absolutley no performance gain in that type of usage
 * diddledan pines for Solid States
<penguin42> DJones: Yes, that's possibly true - what's polly?
<DJones> penguin42: The best twitter client on linux
<DJones> :)
<diddledan> polly pocket!
<penguin42> DJones: Ah, I'm not a twit
 * diddledan twats the twits
<DJones> However, maybe abandonware now
<diddledan> jeebers - win10 has had updates daily the past few days
<daftykins> builds or just security level fixes?
<diddledan> neither?
<diddledan> this one is citing the KB at https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3074686
<diddledan> which mentions being an OOBE patch
<diddledan> OOBE = Out Of Box Experience
<diddledan> i.e. the intro you get when you first upgrade
<daftykins> yep
<daftykins> i know it well
<daftykins> must be fine tuning the content yarr
<daftykins> i still feel a bit hesitant as to how 'complete' it'll be on day one
<diddledan> maybe, just I don't get how applying it to already upgraded systems helps them test it
<daftykins> i know it'll be worked on but damn, got enough hassle with games not being ready on release :)
<diddledan> my surface pro is refusing to apply the firmware update that was released yesterday :-(
<diddledan> System Firmware Update - â23/â07/â2015 - Error 0x80246013
<daftykins> :S
<diddledan> can't find _anything_ helpful about that error number
<daftykins> was it delivered over WU?
<diddledan> yeah
<daftykins> hmm i guess that's the only way you can get MS product updates?
<daftykins> not like a normal electronics manufacturer where their site has a downloads page?
<diddledan> I'm just hoping that MS are getting metrics reported about it so they can try to figure out what's going wrong
<daftykins> diddledan: this is from another chan, seems up your alley :D http://i.imgur.com/eH4l2KZ.png
<diddledan> there might be a download page, I haven't looked
<daftykins> https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=38826
<daftykins> hrmm
<diddledan> that looks like it's last month's and for win8 :-(
<daftykins> arr
 * diddledan admonishes daftykins for not finding the right one :-p
<daftykins> sweet, my xbox one copy of dying light just sold on ebay :D
<daftykins> bought it for a mate but he changed his mind
<diddledan> yey
<diddledan> \o/
<daftykins> hmm gotta post it up to Falkirk
<daftykins> wherever that is *whistle*
<daftykins> http://www.fanlesstech.com/2015/07/exclusive-skylake-boost.html
<daftykins> possibly legit leaked info on the next intel gen
<daftykins> 33% upward graphics improvement and 10% general CPU minimum
<diddledan> hmm
<penguin42> 10% **YAWN**
<daftykins> :P
<penguin42> if it can't execute my code before I've finished writing it I'm not interested
<daftykins> :)
<daftykins> i think broadwell stuff is currently around 3.5x faster than my core 2 quad desktop
<daftykins> nice to keep seeing that multiple increase
<penguin42> not sure what it would give over my early i7 (i7-860)
<daftykins> hmm
<daftykins> probably still in the order of 2.5-3x
<daftykins> but yeah with discrete graphics and non-mobile it's definitely less relevant
<mappps> waywad pines time;D
<diddledan> hungry
<daftykins> we had fajitas
<diddledan> nummy
<diddledan> <3 fadgeters :-p
<daftykins> i think i might need parental supervision next time i'm chopping veg though
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> oops?
<daftykins> managed to be a bit of a liability
<diddledan> oh dear
<daftykins> though i haven't sprung a leak which is odd
<penguin42> daftykins: Have you counted your fingers?
<diddledan> don't be silly, he can't count :-p
<daftykins> i can count to potato?
<penguin42> you mean without his fingers?
<daftykins> it's a Guernsey thing.
<diddledan> I thought potato was irish
<diddledan> moos are guernsish
<diddledan> or are they jersish?
<daftykins> Guernsey golds are where it's at (for the cows what moo)
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/ssv1o5dat6tx74g/IMG_20150706_182942.jpg?dl=0
<diddledan> moo
<daftykins> there!
<diddledan> aww, she's a nice m00
<daftykins> i believe that was immediately before or after a racehorse impression, if you get me
<diddledan> she won the sweepstakes cup?
<daftykins> 'xactly
<daftykins> wow i was just wondering why a foreign person was speaking out in the street
<daftykins> stood up closer to the front door, was my house guest upstairs haha
<daftykins> oops.
<diddledan> you're next to france. you're full of foreign people
<daftykins> all the cruise ships are in again too
<daftykins> 150 this year apparently
<diddledan> \o/
<diddledan> wow
<diddledan> that's a lot
<daftykins> yip
<daftykins> that's hundreds of photos of the little pastry shop 'victor hugo's boulangerie'
<diddledan> I bet you get pukka french baguette there?
<diddledan> <3
<daftykins> i've never popped in tbh
<daftykins> opens too early for me ;)
<diddledan> lol
<daftykins> took my friend into pasty presto the other day though
<daftykins> amazing chocolate torsades
<diddledan> chocolate ftw!
 * diddledan like croissants with chocolate in
<daftykins> they're to die for
<daftykins> oh wow chocolate in, mmm
<daftykins> think we bought a cheese filled one the other day
<mappps> wayward ines is a bit silly
<daftykins> is it not pines?
<foobarry> almost finished my thingy
<foobarry> http://i.imgur.com/f45a8wB.jpg
<foobarry> weak photo because wifey doesn't want the light on
<diddledan> foobarry: are you going to play with your thingy?
<foobarry> no, i will shelve it
<foobarry> after flying it round the house. although i have concerns
<foobarry> that the cabinet might be too slim
<popey> nice
<foobarry> the rigging was a bit fiddly
<foobarry> my first time
<foobarry> sky at night seems to have improved since sir patrick left
<daftykins> foobarry: nice work!
<foobarry> ta chaps
<foobarry> need to do the shaun the sheep model next week with kids
<diddledan> shauno's a sheep!?! :-p
<foobarry> http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u17/ChairmanRed/Airfix%20releases%202008/Shaun%20the%20Sheep%20Landrover/IMG_0456.jpg
<foobarry> daughter asks to see my wallace and gromit model every morning
<diddledan> nice
<daftykins> diddledan: you'd know this if you two met up for a pint ;)
<diddledan> if he's a sheep he might not survive. what with my welsh blood and all
<foobarry> some guy charged unwitting tourists Â£206 for a 10 min rickshaw ride :(
<daftykins> surely you couldn't make anyone pay for that
<mappps> 27c atm
<mappps> sweating buckts lol
<mappps> yea ridiculous foobarry
<daftykins> time to scoot o/
<zmoylan-pi> [Dublin, DUB, Ireland] Condition: Mostly Cloudy | Temp: 11C/52F/284K/511R | Humidity: 88% | Wind Speed 5mph/8kmph
#ubuntu-uk 2015-07-25
<penguin42> mappps: If you want to send 5c back here we'll take it
<popey> current fave subreddit https://www.reddit.com/r/OSHA/
 * zmoylan-pi remembers the time i used gas cylinder as hammer to run network cable...
<penguin42> popey: Eek!
<penguin42> http://i.imgur.com/C2LhZW9.jpg  is wonderful
<popey> kept me busy for a while, that did
<popey> right, now bed
<popey> nn
<penguin42> night
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<knightwise> morning peeps
<knightwise> hey brobostigon
<knightwise> how are you doin today
<brobostigon> hi knightwise, not bad, missing my gf, and you?
<knightwise> Doin ok , doing some long overdue dyi in the office
<knightwise> mounting a screen , hangin up some pictureframes
<brobostigon> :)
<knightwise> Long overdue stuff .. papercuts that lie around forever
<brobostigon> my gf is away for a week with her parents and son,
<mappps> hola
<brobostigon> hi mappps
<mappps> sup:D
<brobostigon> waiting for click to come on on bbc news.
<mappps> 27c
<mappps> not so warm today
<mappps> weird
<brobostigon> i think we are due about 20c this afternoon.
<Nokaji> Hi, anyone know how to get a blu ray player working? - I've installed unbuntu extras, also the three drivers libdvdread, libdvdnav & libdvdcss and set region. Nautilus can see the files/names. I've tried VLC & smartplayer. So far it only plays DVDs plus I can re-encode a blu ray disc to mkv (with some artefacts).
 * p42phone waits for a train at Northwich
<p42phone> Although it'll probably be a pacer so more of a bus on rails
<p42phone> Oh, real train
<daftykins> wow tales of the disconnected
<daftykins> Nokaji: yes, you will get bluray playback going nicely if you use some lib substitution with makemkv
<Nokaji> Now that is a familiar nick for some reason, I see, that's what it does. I've listed it for trial at some point, also noticed I've got K3B installed which seems highly rated
<daftykins> Nokaji: i was under the impression that was an optical media management tool for burning discs in KDE?
<daftykins> yeah makemkv is free if you just request a serial key or some such
<daftykins> i found someones PPA with it in all built, but you can just compile if you so desire
<Nokaji> yes, sorry a burner, not quite the same thing of course but useful nonetheless - if it works
 * brobostigon really should practice the piano more, he is listening to genesis and cant remeber to play anymore.
<daftykins> then it's a quick case of replacing a symlink - and hey presto players like VLC and Kodi can play bluray films
<Nokaji> Someone kindly gacve me a coupla links, inc a PPA
<Nokaji> thanke ye
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> found some suspicious third party VPN app on my mums HTC android smartphone this evening, after removing it - 25 app updates popped up
<daftykins> D:
<penguin42> heck knows what else it did though
<daftykins> indeed
<daftykins> gonna factory reset it once i get a chance
<daftykins> can't be having mother deprived of her facebook
<Nokaji> daftykins: Just fired up K3B, the proggie looks pretty, is far more informative to a point where it inspires confidence and, more to the point, it has started to burn the disc, @ 4% progress so far
<penguin42> yeh, k3b is the best I know of
<daftykins> running out of optical drives at mine now i think, they're slowly dying and i'm not replacing them
<daftykins> not even removing them from the cases since it'd leave a gap :D
<Nokaji> this particular drive is fairly quiet as drives go, it's billed as top spec/quality however it will soon be out of date when they bring in the 4k thingy drives
<daftykins> i don't think the optical drives will need to change for HEVC 4K bluray movies
<Nokaji> I think it/they doesn't do 3D burning either
<Nokaji> I heard something about it but this is all new tech to me, i don't even have a TV
<Nokaji> 20% burned after some 8mins, burning 2.6x on 2x media FWIW
<Nokaji> 4.7GB was getting too small and the discs too numerous
<penguin42> daftykins: Some rumours of 100GB/disc with 3 layer drives
<daftykins> oh yes
<daftykins> might only need firmware to finer tune the laser power, will have to see
<penguin42> I'm sure they'll take the chance to force you to buy new hardware
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> hrmm i have a challenge on my hands
<daftykins> my friends who own a shop have bought this cheap welcome matt that's meant to be capable of sounding an alarm as a pressure sensor
<daftykins> it has two pairs of wires coming out of it, one for a tamper detection and the other for the actual bell
<Nokaji> they announced 47GB discs over 20yrs ago, they've taken their time to work their way through though
<penguin42> yeh
<daftykins> weird thing is there's no power supply and you have to hook it up to your own doorbell setup
<daftykins> i don't have a clue what i'd need to even test it :S
<penguin42> daftykins: It's just a pair of wire springs that touch if you step on it
<daftykins> ah
<Nokaji> pressure sensor, it would throw a switch
<daftykins> i wonder if i could rig a test up with a battery and something else
<penguin42> daftykins: Old alarm systems just had loops that if they made contact/contact was lost they'd sound the alarm
<penguin42> daftykins: Yes, it's junior school electronics - battery, bulb, switch
<Nokaji> they should supply a spec and circuit
<penguin42> daftykins: Of course I'm sure you can wire it up to a pi, provide a JSON basd RPC system and connect it into the cloud
<penguin42> or just use a battery and a bulb
<daftykins> :D
<Nokaji> don't go cheap on a burglar system though
<Nokaji> particularly in an industrial setting
<daftykins> need to go down and prove this old phone line cable that's running from one end of their shop to the other
<daftykins> also there's some ancient existing doorbell setup but i have no idea how it's wired
<daftykins> i don't think it's really my area to try and mains wire this gadgetry
<daftykins> power over some old cat5 phone wire will be sketchy
<penguin42> daftykins: Erm no, I don't think those things are designed for mains wiring
<daftykins> penguin42: oh totally, the doorbell thing might be mains powered and somehow be signalled differently separate from that
<penguin42> daftykins: I don't think normally; there's normally a doorbell transformer and then a button on the DC side I think
<penguin42> daftykins: Sorry, not DC, I mean low voltage
<daftykins> ah well these aren't paired up you see, the doorbell type thing is some ancient looking setup in a church
<daftykins> looked like they may've had the phone ring it previously
<penguin42> hmm
<daftykins> though i can't imagine the phone line power limit juicing that thing enough either
<daftykins> i might just have to tell my friends it's way beyond my experience
<Nokaji> hmh, my blu ray burn failed. fine to 93% then v. slow burn, then fail. Maybe too much on the disk, I left 130MB free space on a 25GB  disc
<Nokaji> hmh, now they tell me
<Nokaji> apparently it writes an additional 250MB to the disc (formatting disc for writing) for error correction, it can be disabled, if not you get eror correction and perhaps half write speed
<Nokaji> so much for checking disc for available space
#ubuntu-uk 2015-07-26
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<MartijnVdS>  hey brobostigon
<brobostigon> hi MartijnVdS
<beilby> just taken just taken OSMC image from 4GB SD to 16GB SD it boots & works, is there a way to resize from Ubuntu to enable me to use all of the 16GB card please?
<MartijnVdS> beilby: there probably is, what's OSMC?
<beilby> raspberry pi distro
<MartijnVdS> beilby: if you plug the SD into an Ubuntu machine, you can resize/move the partition(s) using the "gnome-disks" or "gparted" tools
<MartijnVdS> (I prefer gparted myself)
<brobostigon> if memory serves, with raspbian for the pi, there was a tool built into it, to resize itself.
<beilby> yes, I am looking for that too, stuggling though
<beilby> I guess I want to
<beilby> osmc@osmc:~$ df -h
<beilby> Filesystem      Size  Used Avail Use% Mounted on
<beilby> /dev/root       3.4G  819M  2.4G  26% /
<beilby> devtmpfs         63M     0   63M   0% /dev
<beilby> tmpfs            67M     0   67M   0% /dev/shm
<beilby> tmpfs            67M  4.4M   62M   7% /run
<beilby> tmpfs           5.0M     0  5.0M   0% /run/lock
<beilby> tmpfs            67M     0   67M   0% /sys/fs/cgroup
<beilby> /dev/mmcblk0p1  240M   16M  224M   7% /boot
<beilby> tmpfs            14M     0   14M   0% /run/user/1000
<beilby> dev/root 3.4GB
<beilby> resize2fs is there
 * penguin42 is glad he went for a nice walk yesterday - it's cold and horrid today
<Laney> today and the rest of the week :(
<zmoylan-pi> it's summer, of course it's miserable outside :-)
<knightwise> just started to rain outside. Not considering this "summer" :)
<TwistedLucidity> I can't wait to be sat in the queue to Folkstone whilst the rain lashes down. With two dogs. Who will probably be desperate for the lav....
<Nokaji> Any recommendations on blu ray media and best prices, I need a few rewritable and some write_once. I'm new to the BR market so any other advice such as buy verbatim or avoid LTH also welcome.
 * penguin42 turns the heating up and switches gas tarrif
 * zmoylan-pi wonders if if it might be cheaper to announce on social media that you are looking for cheaper gas, wait for all the bumpf to arrive through letterbox and burn it to keep warm... :-)
<penguin42> haha possible
<zmoylan-pi> maybe mention planning a big order for marshmallows for local scout groups for a few free bags of marshmallows to toast over the free fire... :-p
<TwistedLucidity> Sorting home insurance. Such a total PITA.
<zmoylan-pi> cheaper to install a scorpion/crocodile pit :-)
<diddledan> allo
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<ging> has anyone ever used a cd as an apt source after install on 14.04 or newer ?
<penguin42> no, but it should be possible, normally it leaves a commented out thing in the /etc/apt/sources.list
<ging> only trouble is i still can't get it to work, since 14.04 the default mountpoint for cds is /media/$user/ it used to be /media/ which seems to be where apt still expects it to be
<ging> i filed a bug 6 months ago but i don't seem to be able to convince anyone that this is a real problem
<lubotu3> bug 6 in Launchpad itself ""next 10 entries" at bottom of page" [Medium,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/6
<penguin42> but then how is apt supposed to know which user will present the CD
<penguin42> ging: What is the line you have in /etc/apt/sources.list for cdrom?
<penguin42> ging: But I have to agree that my /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/00CDMountPoint still points to /media/cdrom
<ging> penguin42: there is nothing there currently i cleaned it all out and tried to add it via the software centre and you just don't seem to be able to do it unless you hack fstab and force it to mount to /media instead
<penguin42> ging:    http://paste.ubuntu.com/11943567/
<penguin42> ging: Looks like you can specify the path
<penguin42> ging: Or use the apt-cdrom command to do it
<ging> when i tried it before i was able to add it by specifying the path, but when it ccame to trying installing a package from it it went back to expecting to find it at the default mount point
<penguin42> hmm
<ging> i don't understand how it's not an issue which as got more attention, because it doesn't seem to be an obscure set of hardware or config which causes it, it seem to be an issue on any machine
<diddledan> ging: it's not a common thing to do
<diddledan> most computers are connected to the net so installing direct from the mirror is standard practice
<penguin42> it's not unheard of though
<diddledan> no, but if you're futsing around trying to get packages installed in an offline-only scenario then you can usually figure out how to install the deb packages manually
<penguin42> mind you there's a guy on #ubuntu-offtopic who just installed an ancient thinkpad using a thumb drive over USB-1.1 - ouch
<diddledan> jeebers
<diddledan> the answer is to just plug the thing into the net
<penguin42> yeh that's what I said
<ging> i need to distribute some packages offline, and having to have a work around for people to be able to use the cds is something of a pain
<diddledan> why not use apt-mirror?
<diddledan> do you _really_ _need_ to distribute packages offline?
 * penguin42 can see he might need to
<penguin42> I've come across machines with some broadcom ether which you need to install stuff before the net will wake up
<diddledan> yeah but in those cases you don't do it via apt
<diddledan> you download the single package you need and install it with dpkg
<d3ngar> Hi there, I'm experiencing a strange issue: when I plug in my USB network adapter I do not resolve host names anymore. Any ideas why that is?
<diddledan> d3ngar: you'll have to be more specific I think
<diddledan> d3ngar: what do you do, what do you expect, what really happens?
<d3ngar> diddledan: mmm, what can I say: I can still browse with IP addresses
<d3ngar> I have a USB network adapter for my laptop, it doesn't have a normal ethernet card - only WiFi
<d3ngar> And so to use a wired connection, I use this USB ethernet adapter.
<d3ngar> It connects fine, identifies the device and all that, but it just won't resolve host names.
<diddledan> ok. when you use wireless you can connect using hostnames?
<d3ngar> yep
<penguin42> d3ngar: and where did you plug the ethernet cable in?
<d3ngar> In my home router. It's one of those Sky things
<d3ngar> But to be honest,the issue came up at work first
<d3ngar> There it was some other router
<d3ngar> Same problem though
<penguin42> d3ngar: What happens if you switch wireless off, and then plug the ethernet in?
<d3ngar> Same thing
<d3ngar> Actually, I only disconnected the WiFi
<d3ngar> Didn't completely switch it off
<diddledan> have you perhaps toggled the thingy in network-manager that tells it not to use your dhcp-supplied dns config or perhaps set a static dns config?
<d3ngar> Just checked: no
<d3ngar> It's pretty much left as it was from the installation
<d3ngar> And the issue just suddenly appeared
<d3ngar> What's really bizzare to me is that I can still browse the internet using IP addresses
<penguin42> not bizarre if DNS is broken
<d3ngar> So it has t oahve something to do with how the DNS settings are refreshed
<d3ngar> yes
<d3ngar> Bizarre even (or not so)
<ging> i used to have a problem with openvpn breaking resolvconf i suspect it is a similar thing
<d3ngar> Isn't resolvconf meant to refresh when I plug the cable in?
<ging> meant to, but things seem to go wrong with it
<d3ngar> Can I trigger that manually?
<ging> it's quite hard to do manually first i'd check that resolv.conf is still symlink and hasn't been overwriten with a file
<d3ngar> It is still a symlink
<ging> that was the problem i had, all the fiddling with resolvconf was doing nothing
<ging> is the namesever in the file localhost or something else?
<d3ngar> yes, well 127.0.0.1
<d3ngar> At the moment, at leasr
<d3ngar> I'm using the WLAN
<penguin42> but that's ok, ubuntu normally sets up a local DNS cache thing
<d3ngar> I have also noticed that I cannot ifdown or ifup. It keeps saying that it's not configured
<d3ngar> Either interface
 * penguin42 is expecting nm is managing it
<d3ngar> Albeit they are definitely configured and working
<d3ngar> Seems like I'm out again
<d3ngar> More strange, I tried the cable again to see what might happen
<d3ngar> to the resolve.conf. I stayed connected, but then after 1 minute it dropped.
<daftykins> i purge resolvconf and just edit the file by hand to avoid drama
<ging> using vi or a magnetized needle and a steady hand?
<zmoylan-pi> butterflies or nothing!! :-)
<daftykins> well, nano
<daftykins> i don't see the sense in text editors you have to learn :P
 * zmoylan-pi wonders what text editor daftykins was reared on without learning...
<ging> you still have to learn most of the shortcut in nano, it's just a bit easier to figure out how to do simple edits
<penguin42> ging: The first 5-10 years of vi is the worst, after that you get to like it.
<daftykins> now you're just being facetious.
 * penguin42 is on about his 27th year of vi I think
<ging> i seem to have to constantly switch between vi and nano because there are things i know how to do in vi and not nano but nano is eaiser for most other things
<penguin42> ging: Here, have a simple summary of vi I wrote ages ago; http://www.treblig.org/talks/vitalk/index.html
<penguin42> there are others available
<ging> can you write one for nano too?
<penguin42> no, if you need a summary for nano you're beyond help
<diddledan> ergh, I hate that - it would seem that the dns information is only available via dbus with a network-manager interface
<diddledan> I don't know, then, how to get at it
<diddledan> it _used_ to be saved in /var/run or /run
<diddledan> now it seems it's config-fileless
<diddledan> I miss the days when everything was a transparent config file away. now it's all via opaque services talking to each other with no way of knowing what they're up to
<ging> they are sending all your internets to amazon
<diddledan> huh?
<penguin42> diddledan: Yay for SunOS4 days :-)
<ging> it's all so you can't see that your local machine has be replaced wit ha dumb terminal and everything is going on in the amazon cloud and everything you do is being watched so they know when you are most vulnerable to targetted adverts
<diddledan> I get the idea behind it is for things to "just work" but it makes it completely impossible to diagnose when it doesn't "just work"
<diddledan> amazon don't advertise
<penguin42> maybe /run/resolvconf/resolv.conf ?
<diddledan> you're thinking of google
<ging> for chromebooks it's google for ubuntu it's amazon
 * penguin42 thinks ging is referring to the search term thing
<diddledan> penguin42: nope that's the resolv.conf used to point the nss to look at 127.0.1.1 where there should be a dnsmasq listening - I'm looking for the dnsmasq config to ask d3ngar to pastebin but it doesn't exist
<ging> network manage does it or something
<penguin42> ah, yeh I've got dnsmasq disabled on this box
<diddledan> penguin42: I'm thinking there's a discrepency between his two network configurations for dns
<diddledan> but I can't prove it without no files
<penguin42> nod
<penguin42> right, time to disappear - back to work tomorrow
<d3ngar> In the end it started to work! By itself no less...
<d3ngar> I wonder for how long or why it wasn't working before
<daftykins> wow
<daftykins> Myrtti: bit funked up there.
<Myrtti> yeah
<m0nkey_> Myrtti husband is messing with the internet connection again.
#ubuntu-uk 2016-07-25
<isleofman_dan> I've settled on a medium length SSID and password, and have just finished reconfiguring all my IoT things to connect again. Off to bed now. Thanks to all for input. I won't do anything about a bug report, as it only seems to be me with the problem!
<diddledan> still very strange that you're getting problems anyway
<diddledan> something is wonky and it feels bad not to find out what the problem is and only work around it in your case
<isleofman_dan> Yeah. Maybe someone else will run it the issue. If not, it'll be the Manx fairies to blame!
<isleofman_dan> goodnight
<mappps> hi
<MooDoo> howdy all
<popey> Good morning
<MooDoo> howdy popey
<knightwise> mornign
<knightwise> Plz type slowly when talking to popey .. he apparently has bad wifi
<TwistedLucidity> O
<TwistedLucidity> K
<davmor2> popey: morning and welcome back
<popey> I do?
<davmor2> popey: well it's that or it is your head from the sprint last week ;)
<davmor2> and then a weekend with AQ
<popey> the bad wifi was in the hotel in heidelberg ð
<TwistedLucidity> What always impressed (terrified?) me in HD were the flood levels marked on the sides of the buildings by the river.
<TwistedLucidity> Also really cool to see an actual working river is the various barges toing and front (often with the family car lashed on the back)
<TwistedLucidity> s/front/froing
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<daftykins> gm \o
<daftykins> barely.
<zmoylan-pi> good or morning? :-P
<daftykins> time'll tell :>
<daftykins> penguin42: afty \o
 * penguin42 yaawwwnns at the end of a long weekend
<daftykins> that good eh?
 * zmoylan-pi pushes mugs of tea and aldi knockoff penguin bars towards daftykins n penguin42 
<daftykins> yay :D
 * penguin42 grabs an unpenguin bar
<penguin42> daftykins: Well a 4 day weekend is a good thing; not got much done though
<daftykins> :) that's the whole point i'd imagine!
<zmoylan-pi> so a good weekend then :-)
<daftykins> i received my new Startech special slimline optical to USB 3.0 enclosure today, so i was just then robbing the bluray drive from my old HTPC and popping it in
<diddledan> daftykins: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eg_ghkwt5cs
<daftykins> :D i always wanted to know what the guards said in the next bit
<zmoylan-pi> i managed to take a pic of the â¬20 'smart' watch... https://twitter.com/angryearthling/status/757155580305895424/photo/1
<daftykins> WOW indeed
<daftykins> looks like a right Fitbit clone
<zmoylan-pi> a near disposable fitbit...
<daftykins> actually the strap on a clients actual one died the other day, i took it apart for fun but nope - you can't change the strap at all on the - Charge HR i think it was
<daftykins> though phoning in, they sent another one for free
<zmoylan-pi> i suspect from reading the reviews and comments in various chat rooms that wearables are been killed by users at high rates
<diddledan> wearables need to be durable because people are careless about what they do with their arms
<zmoylan-pi> i went through a fair few watches in 80s as i treated it as armour for holding open doors that were closing etc.
<diddledan> and you wonder why we only give you nokia phones
<zmoylan-pi> lost one throwing a punch. strap just died on impact...
<daftykins> my my
<zmoylan-pi> only nokia make moylan proof phones...  nokia nokia that is, not ms nokia...
<diddledan> rumors yesterday were accurate: http://marissamayr.tumblr.com/post/147941613134/verizon-to-acquire-yahoos-operating-business
<zmoylan-pi> 5beeelion dollarsss... ::holds pinkie to mouth::
<zmoylan-pi> 1 billion goes to mozilla seemingly
<DJones> For Y!A!H!O!O! ? Wow, do people still use that
<zmoylan-pi> the oil trading industry uses yahoo messenger almost exclusively
<DJones> In other news, owner of isohunt settles a lawsuit for $50M
<zmoylan-pi> their email has been doing well recently
<DJones> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-36883179?ocid=socialflow_twitter
<zmoylan-pi> tumblr is growing... even if it is a _lot_ of porn
<daftykins> ooh amazon tell me my pi3 has dispatched
 * daftykins is soon to be known as daftykins-pi
<daftykins> ;)
<DJones> Heh, I read somewhere that the biggest piracy/porn search engine now is bing.com
<daftykins> Bing! and the law is broken
<DJones> Nice to MS's  stand against piracy is working
<daftykins> since when did they have one?
<zmoylan-pi> pat the postman dispatched or al pacino dispatched? :-)
<zmoylan-pi> it's ok when they steal from someone, it's not ok to steal from ms
<DJones> Perhaps not in general terms, but thinking of all the anti piracy stuff included in Windows
<DJones> Region encoding for dvd's etc
<zmoylan-pi> region encoding for dvds as horrible as it is, is not ms's fault
<daftykins> DJones: i'm horrified that you think that's Microsoft, that's in drive firmware!
<daftykins> it's no wonder you open source folk have such bias when you make things up like this
<zmoylan-pi> ms media player... not _THATS_ ms's fault... :-)
<zmoylan-pi> *now
<diddledan> lol
<DJones> Years ago I had a cd reader/writer that was blocked by Windows, rather than the firmware on the device, worked fine with Slackware for anything, just wouldn't work with windows
<daftykins> well that's heavily anecdotal
<DJones> Maybe that was just that the opensource community had a workround for a hardware block
<daftykins> sounds more like misconfigured Windows to me
<DJones> That wasn't incororated in Windows
<diddledan> I believe decss bypasses the firmware by reading it as data
<diddledan> I might be making that up on the spot though :-p\
<daftykins> i would expect any drive interaction has to go via firmware
<zmoylan-pi> that _might_ be ms doing all the reading by the book whereas linux has had to make it up as they went along
<DJones> I'm not anti-windows, it does some things better than linux (regardless of distro) so I use maybe 1 day  week, I just prefer Linux via Ubuntu which meets 90% ofmy needs without monetary cost,  no matter what, people use the best or easiest tool available to them
<DJones> I like powerpoint & publisher, they are easy to use and work well for what I need to do with them
<daftykins> just cost in time :D
<diddledan> DJones: except dicky stallman whose morals are too staunch to sacrifice freedom in favour of ease
<diddledan> I admire him for his tanacity
<DJones> diddledan: Well, respect to him for making the choice, no arguments there
<diddledan> exactly!
<DJones> Outside of those two apps, there's nothing I can't do on Ubuntu/Linux
<diddledan> blurry on linux is still a pain
<diddledan> :-(
<DJones> Even then I could find alternatives, but when I'm sharing files with pure windows users its easier just to stick with the,
<daftykins> nah, install makemkv... symlink a couple of libs and hey presto Kodi can play movies direct from disc
<diddledan> I worry about what makemkv does in it's binary blob though
<popey> \o/ contractor arrived, has a thinkpad. opening discussion about thinkpads
<diddledan> popey: yey!
<popey> I guessed x220t, was x230t, close
<daftykins> i'm actually dumping a Sopranos episode from this bluray drive over USB 3.0 with makemkv right now
<zmoylan-pi> play conkers with your thinkpads to show their superiority :-D
<popey> should have looked at the keyboard better
<popey> last time I had a chat with a stranger about his thinkpad was on a plane, and he turned out to be one of the designers of the BBC Micro
<DJones> daftykins: Was kodi the follow on form xmbc? I think so, I used to use that and found it worked with everything, don't need it now with a smart tv though
<popey> chatted to him for hours.
<popey> Thinkpads are great ice breakers
<DJones> s/form/from.
<zmoylan-pi> it's the geek equivalence of a pet dog.  a conversation starter...
<daftykins> DJones: yeah the new name after some software company asked them to change
<DJones> daftykins: Ta
<daftykins> been using it for my HTPC on the TV since the original xbox days :)
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/oykiclnuauo12js/IMG_20160531_233053.jpg?dl=0
<daftykins> dug it out the other day and it still runs!
<diddledan> :-o
<DJones> Nice,I think I reformatted mine
<daftykins> 2.0x bluray so 8.5MB/sec is the max i'm getting off my old HTPC's bluray drive :(
<popey> I've managed to get to 2016 and not have any blueray devices
<daftykins> 30 mins to pull off a 13.6GB episode :)
<daftykins> mmm i'd not own one either if it didn't just come with my HTPC, but i ran Kodi from Linux so i never used it either
<zmoylan-pi> i watch most of my movies on screens smaller than 10" blu ray is a waste of capacity to me
<daftykins> never assumed they'd get it working
<daftykins> 10" ? wat
<daftykins> zmoylan-pi: did you just stop wanting any tech around one day? :)
<zmoylan-pi> i don't have a tv, i just use tablets and netbooks and phones for watching movies
<daftykins> that's horrible :(
<zmoylan-pi> i have bad eysight so big screens far away are of no use to me, a small screen close by is grand
<daftykins> you just pull up a chair :D
<popey> i found the hudl2 perfect size for watching 1080 at a few inches away
<popey> watched loads on that
<daftykins> i quite like having decent sound :P
<popey> headphones ftw
<daftykins> dear Tux no :P
<zmoylan-pi> as long as i can read the subtitles on seven samurai any screen size is acceptable... just right now that means a tablet usually
<popey> hard to get a full dolby digital setup on a plane
<daftykins> we weren't talking about flights i thought
<daftykins> if you keep changing the use case it surprisingly changes the constraints too
<zmoylan-pi> now if blu ray was more easily accessed for storing data i'd love the 20+gb of storage they allow for archives
<penguin42> popey: They could always mount 85" LCDs along the wings and turn the window seats around
<zmoylan-pi> i'd have to open a window and wing walk to watch... :-P
<daftykins> i was on a flight the other day where nobody was allowed peanuts because a 'hyper allergic' was onboard o0
<daftykins> seems those baseball stadiums in the US have special suites for those folk too, to spare them from the slightest whiff of peanut exposure
<zmoylan-pi> so you had to use your emergency stash of snickers to feed your peanut habit...
<MooDoo> :)
<penguin42> daftykins: It must be really difficult in the US - they put peanuts in everything
<diddledan> they even put peanuts in butter!!
<diddledan> :-p
<daftykins> :D
<DJones> nuts....Disgusting things, just bits of wood...might as well chew on a chair leg, its the same material :)
<DJones> Unless its coconut of course
<diddledan> eww
<diddledan> hate coconut
 * zmoylan-pi loves a bounty bar once in a while
<zmoylan-pi> the dark chocolate version
<DJones> Something I've never liked nuts apart from salted peanuts when in a pub (as long as they're not in a bowl on the bar)
 * penguin42 now has a terrible vision of zmoylan-pi in a grass skirt
<daftykins> ugh not dark :P my parents would always ruin chocolate stashes with that preference!
<penguin42> daftykins: Send the dark chocolate this way
<daftykins> mmm salted peanuts, dry roasted and cashews \o/
<diddledan> I believe this is needed at this juncture (mildly unsafe for kids) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lnNYXgV7L-c
<daftykins> diddledan: i suppose that's still on the topic of nuts...
<diddledan> well there's chocolate and nuts so I figured it followed
<zmoylan-pi> back when chef was part of southpark...
<diddledan> s/nuts/salt/
<daftykins> back when they were insulting everything except his own beliefs :)
<diddledan> I've not seen southpark since the movie
<diddledan> I blame canada
<zmoylan-pi> haven't seen it since my last tv died in 2008
<DJones> Never watched it, something I didn't like
<penguin42> can watch it in small doses
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi: get an hdhomerun and you can watch tv on your 10inch thingies
<daftykins> they've become highly topical, there's some very good stuff in there if you can skip past the toiler humour rubbish
<zmoylan-pi> there are some good bits, some inspired brilliant bits but a lot of annoying bits
<zmoylan-pi> paging david_ll_ fix your connection
<daftykins> it's ok, i even emailed the guy now
<daftykins> must be away or something :)
<daftykins> if only we had active ops that could set a temporary ban until it's resolved...
<DJones> Not much in lastlog, just one read error and one client quit
<diddledan> some idiot outside has loud gangsta noises (can't call it music) playing
<zmoylan-pi> warm weather has idiot drivers driving around with windows open...
<DJones> I saw a lot of connection failures over the weekend though
<DJones> zmoylan-pi: I saw a picture on a local police twitter account that had a "home made convertible", the owner had just cut the roof off
<daftykins> well that guy has been dropping all weekend
<zmoylan-pi> i saw a mini pickup over the weekend...
<zmoylan-pi> not often you see a car with less cabin space than a smart car...
<daftykins> wow crucial seem to have some 80s synth as their hold music
<diddledan> \o/
<diddledan> synth ftw
<zmoylan-pi> less cool is that it's ben there sinc the 80s... :-)
<DJones> I think the link was this https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CnzzbCXWYAEOCMA.jpg
<daftykins> XD
<diddledan> I like that the police had stopped them
<zmoylan-pi> apologies for dm link... compared to this wreck... http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3698135/On-way-MOT-Footage-shows-completely-destroyed-car-DRIVEN-roads-Pakistan.html
<daftykins> nice tortoise
<zmoylan-pi> the terminator car, positively absolutely will not stop...
<diddledan> damn
<diddledan> "qmail is not an MTA. it's a set of building blocks to make your own. so it's kinda like netBSD"
<zmoylan-pi> some assembly required
<DJones> Like Lego or Mecano then
<zmoylan-pi> more like dna... :-P
<zmoylan-pi> with no picture on the box to help...
<DJones> zmoylan-pi: That car is wrecked
<zmoylan-pi> i wonder if it would pass any countries mot...
<DJones> Its got a wheel at each corner (even if it is triangular)
<zmoylan-pi> it does make you curious as to what happened to it that crushed it so much but left it running
<diddledan> it looks like it was lifted by a chain
<DJones> This was on the NW Motorway police twitter feed the other day https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CngiEYsXgAAZYXW.jpg drink driver over twice the legal limit, drove on the motorway with his vehicle like this..
<DJones> Looks 100% roadworthy compared to the car in zmoylan-pi's link
<daftykins> :S
<daftykins> can only imagine they must've crashed and then kept going
<DJones> Either that or the tyre blew & kept going
<daftykins> the poor road :)
<zmoylan-pi> and the debris left behind to be thrown up by following cars
<foobarry> restricted mode on youtube is ridiculous
<penguin42> what's that?
<foobarry> i want to disable smutty thumbnail suggestions from coming up after i've watcha  video
<foobarry> its a safe mode
<foobarry> but its a blunt mallety
<foobarry> it turns off comments and the most benign videos, such as lara croft locks the butler in the freezer
<foobarry> they need a better filter than that
<foobarry> and there's a big difference betwewen seeing comments and unrelated pornographic still shots
<daftykins> those thumbs are becoming all too common, youtube is a real mess for sure
<penguin42> yeh
<diddledan> dang: http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/26/nyregion/l-train-will-shut-down-from-manhattan-to-brooklyn-in-2019-for-18-months.html
<diddledan> that's a long closure
<zmoylan-pi> they found a leaf on the line? :-P
<DJones> wonder how it'll affect uk workers....Oh, not at all
<zmoylan-pi> well depends how bad brexit is by then and which british companies end up in manhattan... :-P
<daftykins> closer to 'home', i hear southwest trains have gotten quite rough?
<popey> southern, maybe?
<popey> swt are okay
<popey> also, free wifi
<daftykins> oh right, didn't think there was a distinction
<daftykins> i always train about when on the 'mainland' :)
<popey> southern go kinda south out of victoria, and southwest go kinda south-west out of waterloo
<popey> (mostly)
<daftykins> ah yeah
<popey> I went on both at the weekend as part of my "tour of nuclear power stations" trip
<zmoylan-pi> saw carriages over the weekend with compartments... didn't know we had any in ireland...
<daftykins> o0 what prompted that? :)
<diddledan> I'm on the waterloo/salisbury line
<popey> I was on a train in Germany on Thursday. Chatting to a friend. Some german bloke walked past. Stopped, and said "popey?"
<davmor2> northwest is euston
<popey> Turns out he's a listener, user of Ubuntu and ubuntu phone owner
<diddledan> although I think basingstoke also serves the solent region so winchester, southampton etc.
<daftykins> XD
<penguin42> popey: haha
<popey> daftykins: friend of mine organised a trip
<davmor2> popey: you're infamous
<DJones> What is the conference that has happened in Liverpool around august over the last few years
<popey> oggcamp?
<daftykins> soon they'll be asking for autographs
<DJones> popey: Thanks, thats it
<popey> hah
<popey> he pinged me on telegram afterwards and said "should have taken a selfie"
<davmor2> popey: it's the Lionel Blair cut
<diddledan> popey: wait till people call you mycroft :-p
<popey> hahah
<penguin42> davmor2: I thought it was Elvis?
<davmor2> penguin42: it's okay it's only an advert
<zmoylan-pi> soon they'll be wanting popey to put his autograph on parts of their body so they can get it tattooed later... ::me knows the people:: :-P
<DJones> If oggcamp happens in 2017, people from down south should be aware that there'll be a new bridge over the mersey open at runcorn that will be a toll bridge
<DJones> If it happens in Liverpool again
<davmor2> Theres a toll theres a toll in the dungeon
<DJones> Old Runcorn-Widnes bridge will also be tolled/closed around then
<DJones> Which is the direct route to Liverpool from the M6
<foobarry> das popey.
<DJones> via M56
<foobarry> in some corny allo allo accent i hope
<penguin42> DJones: Convenient for those running a toll bridge
<DJones> http://www.merseygateway.co.uk/
<zmoylan-pi> the trolls can meet under it
<DJones> Causing road chaos at the moment for locals
<popey> the trip at the weekend was to Arthur Dents house, The Red Lion (where he and Ford prefect had 6 beers), http://www.the-observatory.org/ , Dungeness, a secret underground bunker, alien trail in Rendlesham, tour of sizewell B...
<popey> busy weekend
<zmoylan-pi> the movie or the tv show?
<daftykins> my my
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi: radio :-p
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: the tv show
<popey> zmoylan-pi: tv show
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: http://www.imcdb.org/vehicle.php?id=16770&l=fr
<zmoylan-pi> the tv show is all on youtube these days
<popey> yeah
<diddledan> davmor2: you're french?
<diddledan> I think you'll be able to read better if you used http://www.imcdb.org/vehicle.php?id=16770&l=en
<davmor2> diddledan: no it was just the first image that showed the house from google images
<daftykins> sacrÃ© bleu
<diddledan> blue sugar?
<daftykins> nope
<diddledan> or lude sacrifice?
<daftykins> it's sacred blue, of course
<diddledan> nono, I think it's a naughty sacrifice (like blue-movie is a naughty movie)
<daftykins> the waiter says it a lot whilst the two NAMBLAs are chasing the South Park boys
<diddledan> Nambla?
<daftykins> y'know, the North American Marlon Brando Look-Alikes
<daftykins> and the other one isn't really appropriate to repeat in here
<popey> http://pics.imcdb.org/0is369/bscap0118jl.199.jpg that one
<popey> https://twitter.com/popey/status/757160393169076225
<popey> doesn't look a lot different now
<diddledan> defenders based on daredevil and jessica jones has a good teaser trailer from comicon this week: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBZtM8q2Z1g
 * daftykins makes it nice and big for zmoylan-pi - https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CoH5XHaWcAAvVJ2.jpg:large
<diddledan> daftykins: he only has 10 inches, you need to shrink it for him, surely?
<zmoylan-pi> no plaque for the h2g2 fans?
<popey> i couldn't see one
<popey> didn't go too close as it's private land
<diddledan> ergh. chrome keeps crashing on me
<foobarry> where is the red lion?
<daftykins> there's one just north of town here on Guernsey ;)
<popey> foobarry: http://www.shepherdneame.co.uk/pubs/haywards-heath/red-lion
<popey> really nice pub. had some food and not quite six beers
<zmoylan-pi> and no peanuts to replace the salt after transport?
<popey> i was tempted to buy some peanuts
<popey> but went for cheesy chips instead :)
<penguin42> the dentrasi would not be impressed
<zmoylan-pi> probably did have to use babelfish to order from the foreign staff in pub mind... :-P
<penguin42> the recent arrivals from Ursa-major-minor really don't understand the Southern accent that well
<zmoylan-pi> pfft, even the babelfish is thrown by some irish accents :-P
<popey> heh
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi: yeah but irish is like galifrayan - nobody understands it
<daftykins> gali what?
<diddledan> might be with an e
<diddledan> galifrey
<diddledan> either way
<diddledan> daftykins: if you don't know what galifrey is then please get your coat and check your geek card in at the door :-p
<zmoylan-pi> http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/Gallifreyan
 * daftykins gets his coat
<diddledan> hehe
 * penguin42 offers diddledan a jelly baby
<daftykins> i don't watch Dr. Who
<diddledan> :-o
 * penguin42 hasn't for a few decades, but still
<diddledan> heretic!
<zmoylan-pi> and slips a sonic screwdriver into his pocket that will raise questions going through security...
<penguin42> diddledan: It's never been any good after Tom Baker
<diddledan> lol
<daftykins> JamesTait: what day is it!?
<daftykins> i just called ebay to tell 'em their system doesn't accept local mobile numbers ;)
<daftykins> this ought to be good
<JamesTait> daftykins, I haven't even looked yet!
<JamesTait> Thread the Needle Day, according to several sources.  Hot Fudge Sundae Day as well.
<diddledan> isnât sundae day redundant usage of day?
<daftykins> it might be a bit confusing to write sunda(e/y)
<daftykins> that would have made more sense yesterday, too ;)
<JamesTait> A Sunday sundae?
<JamesTait> Or is it a sundae Sunday?
<daftykins> i bet that diddledan would have a Sunday Sundae on a Friday!
<daftykins> yay i'm getting my new mechanical keyboard sooner than expected \o/ go amazon!
 * zmoylan-pi rips open a pack of after eight mints in defiance of all social norms...
<daftykins> with zeez after eight at before 7pm you are really spoiling uzz
<daftykins> </Ferrero Rochez parody>
<penguin42> zmoylan-pi: Yes but will the pack survive until 8 ?
<daftykins> not if we work hard
<diddledan> https://twitter.com/JakesTakes/status/757614580927500288
<diddledan> youâre welcome
<zmoylan-pi> the only animal to be born with horns...
<DJones> zmoylan-pi: Have you seen Donald Trump's baby photo's?
<DJones> Although, that might defeat the definition of "animal"
<zmoylan-pi> that assumes he was born and not as suspected by many... summoned...
<daftykins> grown or ejected
<DJones> ejected makes him sound like waste ectoplasm from ghostbusters
<DJones> But if the cap fits....
<zmoylan-pi> once you cut 2 holes in it for his horns...
<foobarry> robot wars new series was fun \o/
<popey> yeah
<popey> Sam hadn't heard of it, we sat and watched it together, he loved it
<popey> meant later bed time, which may be partly why he loved it
<zmoylan-pi> and then young dreams of making a killer robot...
<penguin42> yeh just be careful where you leave your pi and chainsaw
<diddledan_> just tried iplayering it and got told "This content cannot be played in our HTML5 Player"
<penguin42> they have an HTML5 player?
<zmoylan-pi> it looked just like what i thought it would look like coming out of the box... :-) http://motherboard.vice.com/read/watch-this-guy-turn-on-a-20000-watt-light-bulb?trk_source=popular
<diddledan_> how many amps does it take to run 20KW?
<zmoylan-pi> watch the vid, he has a rig for taking 100amps and outputting 90+ to the bulb
<zmoylan-pi> he's sweating just from the light...
<diddledan_> why does he have that huge cable in his house?!
<zmoylan-pi> for overclocking his rasp pi for 2 nanoseconds... :-P
<diddledan_> I wonder how many homes he's accidentally burnt-down?
<zmoylan-pi> i wonder if his eyesight came back
<zmoylan-pi> of course if a neighbour started playing loud music he could put that in the garden and fly a drone with mirror attached to reflect light into theirs...
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/dnwc5uthcyvtq9b/Hitman-bug.flv?dl=0 - here's me finding bugs in games
<diddledan_> o_O
<diddledan_> teleport
<diddledan_> and the curious case of the confused drinks glass
<daftykins> ;]
<daftykins> i put poison in it so completed an entire playthrough before i realised he had vanished
<daftykins> by chance i had an autosave there so i could see what was happening
<diddledan_> so you tried to kill a guy but he decided to just cease existence rather than be killed by you?
<diddledan_> that's not really very sporting of him is it?
<diddledan_> watching robot wars - the second bout was carnage
<diddledan_> wow carbide (robot) is a thing of pure evil
<daftykins> diddledan_: it is quite rude, though it was a sedative so he's having a very good nap in the afterlife
<m0nkey_> Hmm.. Jimmy Carr is in Montreal this weekend
#ubuntu-uk 2016-07-26
<mapito> he guys
<MooDoo> howdy all
<davmor2> Morning all
<MooDoo> morning davmor2, how goes it
<davmor2> MooDoo: backwards recently it appears, worked on the new release for the phone then 16.04.1 desktop, now upgrade from 15.10 and 14.04.4 and next week 14.04.5 how is it not going backwards right ;)
<davmor2> MooDoo: hows things there mucka?
<knightwise> morning everyone
<davmor2> morning knightwise
<MooDoo> davmor2: yeah ok thanks, just ordered my copy of the official ubuntu book
<davmor2> MooDoo: is that so you know how to do things officially :P
<MooDoo> davmor2: yes, want to learn what this Ubuntu thing is...heard of it, never used it ;)
<davmor2> MooDoo: that sounds like you yes, surprised you did get the official server book rather than the desktop one :)
<davmor2> MooDoo: I know you'd like to learn about servers and how to use them too :P
<knightwise> anybody ever read any covers of the linux voice mag ?
<knightwise> is it any good ? Cuz the podcast is all about the brexit lately
 * knightwise not interested in politics in a linux podcast
<popey> i subscribe to linux voice
<popey> but they haven't put out an ep in a while
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<JamesTait> Good morning all!  Happy Tuesday, and happy One Voice Day! ð â¤
<Azelphur> ali1234, don't suppose you're about? I spotted you've done work on minecrift and am having some problems?
<ali1234> what did i do this time?
<Azelphur> ali1234, well, I'm trying to help out a little gaming store, they've got a Windows machine running minecrift, but controller detection doesn't seem to work.
<Azelphur> I tried wiping out the .minecraft folder, and reinstalling minecrift, but now for bonus points - it doesn't install. Says it installed successfully, doesn't add its profile.
<ali1234> minecraft doesn't install into .minecraft any more
<ali1234> they have this weird overlay system
<Azelphur> I see
<Azelphur> the profile still doesn't show up in the launcher, however
<ali1234> that's because the profile settings are stored in .minecraft
<Azelphur> Oh I see
<Azelphur> is there documentation for this anywhere
<ali1234> nope
<Azelphur> happy fun times, so what am I supposed to do? :P
<ali1234> i dunno.
<ali1234> minecrift hasn't been properly supported for a long time
<Azelphur> I see, is there a better/alternate solution?
<ali1234> minecraft itself basically died when microsoft bought it
<Azelphur> ah
<foobarry> its the MS way
<ali1234> still no modding API and now they only work on the xbox version
<zmoylan-pi> who didn't see that coming?
<Azelphur> ali1234, seems like some people are still running it
<ali1234> yes, i was able to install it recently, on linux, using old versions of minecraft
<daftykins> morning \o
<Azelphur> I see
<Azelphur> ali1234, well that's pretty much what I'm aiming for here (only sans the Linux, sadly)
<davmor2> JamesTait: I know these guys did okay but come on a whole day to them surely not https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E_O1A8PLxQU also as a serious answer https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hiri_EDfU8U
<Azelphur> ali1234, the thing I find weird is when I run the installer, it says it's installing to <path> it says it installed successfully, I look at <path>/launcher_profiles.json and it hasn't been modified
<Azelphur> is that because of the overlay thing you mentioned?
<ali1234> yes
<Azelphur> ali1234, I see, can you explain the overlay thing?
<ali1234> you know minecraft.jar?
<Azelphur> yep
<ali1234> the real one, not the launcher
<ali1234> well with the overlays that file gets unpacked
<Azelphur> I se
<ali1234> then instead of injecting class files into the zip
<ali1234> it creates an overlay with the new files you want
<ali1234> then it says "load the base plus this overlay"
<ali1234> all that is handled by the launcher
<Azelphur> ugh
<ali1234> does anyone here have a raspberry pi official display V1.1?
<Azelphur> ali1234, so my guess is, it worked, then we nuked .minecraft, which updated to the new 'overlayed' setup, and killed it completely
<Azelphur> sound right?
<ali1234> yes, but it works fine with the overlay setup still
<Azelphur> huh?
<ali1234> you just need to properly delete everything
<ali1234> i suggest formatting the computer
<Azelphur> yea...I can't really format the computer lol
<popey> nuke it from orbit, it's the only way to be sure
<Azelphur> :P
<Azelphur> ali1234, I can delete .minecraft and run the minecraft uninstaller perhaps?
<ali1234> maybe
<ali1234> i don't know anything about windows
<Azelphur> A quick google reveals it's the same as Linux
<Azelphur> there's the launcher, and .minecraft, and that's all there is
<Azelphur> so deleting .minecraft does it
<Azelphur> I have been copying the profile across after deleting .minecraft, so perhaps I'll try not doing that
<foobarry> bernie ecclestone's mother in law is younger than him :S
<daftykins> ;)
<foobarry> by about 20yrs
<daftykins> :O
<daftykins> sounds like a BOGOF to me
<Azelphur> answer: minecrift doesn't create a profile for you any more - you have to create it yourself
<Azelphur> progress!
<daftykins> what's the timescale on the java one getting the chop, anyway? seems like the windows 10 minecraft has been lurking for a while but perhaps is behind on the content or something (i do not touch minecraft)
<popey> jeb is still working on "pc minecraft"
<popey> next update to be announced at minecon AIUI
<MooDoo> oooo minecraft :)
<daftykins> yawn :P
<daftykins> who is jeb? :)
<popey> lead dev
<popey> Jens Bergensten
<popey> they've put out some minor revision bumps recently, but there's some expected big changes in 1.11
<ali1234> inb4 1.11 is unchanged except for a "get windows 10" nag screen
<daftykins> that'll all be gone as of Friday (:
<daftykins> maybe there'll be one more fiasco of how they remove that GWX app...
<zmoylan-pi> it's swap to 'searching your hard drive for your credit card number to upgrade to windows 10' message instead
<daftykins> one of my clients with a Lenovo X1 Carbon is away right now so i can't do the 10 upgrade XD
<popey> i wonder if they do drop the java version, and say "Hey, get the new version in the windows store"
<popey> I can't imagine they'd be that daft though
<ali1234> they clearly will eventually
<ali1234> the android/xbox/windows 10 version already has about 4x the number of users
<zmoylan-pi> ms... not make daft decisions...
<daftykins> if you've still got the local installer (if it works that way) i suppose you could always hold onto the last version?
<popey> not if they deprecate it
<popey> they could make the auth servers reject old versions quite easily
<popey> and servers move on too
<popey> so it would be come useless for anything other than local play
<ali1234> and the auth code was patched out about 2 days after it was added
<daftykins> oh ok, didn't realise it chatted online like that
<daftykins> i thought you'd have working local and LAN still
<daftykins> minimum
<daftykins> zmoylan-pi: big news! https://www.dropbox.com/sh/kzeu7jb80oq0p6v/AACBL9YjVxxpzZCNc93-Th_ya?dl=0
<zmoylan-pi> the rasp pi take over of the universe proceeds according to plan...
<daftykins> it's choking on music playback though right now, not sure whether it's cache related or it's just that bad at doing HDMI audio out o0
<zmoylan-pi> that sounds odd... i've never used audio on my pi but i've never heard of many problems with playback...
<daftykins> nah i'm pretty sure it's the software
<daftykins> wow my telco just text me to say AT&T in the US block their customers from texting us Guerns... how funky
<daftykins> and all texts from t-mobile in the US aren't working to my number range XD highly impressive stuff
<zmoylan-pi> and the decision for this madness with sms is?
<daftykins> decision to use it, you mean?
<zmoylan-pi> decision for american companies to deny the existence of your location
<daftykins> just like how the UK gov likes to screw us over regularly too really i'd imagine :)
<zmoylan-pi> so international annoyances. yay \o/
<daftykins> found it funny 'cause i can text them, but they can't reply
 * zmoylan-pi remembers writing an sms server in 90s and finding all the telecoms companies in ireland blocked such software but wouldn't tell you that they did or why...
<zmoylan-pi> i'd send a messages for 2-3 hours and then it would just stop... no errors, no information
<daftykins> must not have been on their whitelist :)
<zmoylan-pi> they swore blind they didn't have a whitelist
 * daftykins winks
<zmoylan-pi> in the end i added a random time interval to every batch send so it no longer sent messages at fixed intervals.  that seems to have confused their software enough to not be noticed.  was only sending 3-4 messages per hour to engineers.
<daftykins> wonder if the pi is choking because it's doing some samplerate conversion
<daftykins> telco says they've been arguing their case for over a year with AT&T, hah
<zmoylan-pi> probably getting put through to the wrong number... :-P
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> my calls to ebay yesterday amounted to being sent around the houses and being misunderstood at every single step
<foobarry> you tried to speak to ebay?
<daftykins> yep!
<daftykins> some days when you log in, there's a box saying "enter your mobile number for security" and the nice little box has the Guernsey flag in it which auto populates "+44"
<daftykins> putting a real mobile number in after that doesn't work, i had to change it to "United Kingdom" instead
<daftykins> i know what you'll think - what's wrong with that? well, why bother to list Guernsey if it doesn't work
<ali1234> why doesn't it work?
<daftykins> fails validation, one sec
<daftykins> just rejects our rock mobile number format and says "Please enter a valid phone number"
<daftykins> so it's as though whatever validation they're doing on UK, isn't applied to Guernsey
<ali1234> what's the mobile format?
<daftykins> (0)7781 4xxxxx
<ali1234> do you hae to enter the dialing code to call someone in the UK?
<daftykins> the 44? nah
<ali1234> and vise versa?
<daftykins> how do you mean?
<daftykins> i don't think anyone in the UK has to use +44 to dial our mobiles
<ali1234> would i have to dial +44 to call you?
<ali1234> okay
<daftykins> it's just ebays system requiring it be there
<popey> so you can't choose +44, and type in 77814xxxxx, like every other site?
<ali1234> you might want to complain to this website as well: http://www.dialling-codes.co.uk/dialling-code-for-guernsey/
<ali1234> i assume all the pages are autogenerated from a script
<ali1234> and so this one is wrong
<ali1234> maybe ebay uses libphonenumber
<ali1234> https://github.com/googlei18n/libphonenumber
<ali1234> if they don't, maybe they should :)
<daftykins> well that's only referring to worldwide compatibility
<ali1234> you could send them this: https://github.com/googlei18n/libphonenumber/blob/master/FALSEHOODS.md
<daftykins> popey: indeed, 7781 and 07781 plus the rest are rejected when Guernsey is selected
<daftykins> but it was accepted fine once UK was selected
<ali1234> what is the ISO country code for guernsey?
<daftykins> http://dafty.rocks/stuff/ebay.png
<daftykins> .gg ?
<ali1234> GG yes
<daftykins> in the above image the Guernsey flag is up
<ali1234> libphonenumber accepts it
<popey> daftykins: gotcha
<daftykins> they sent me an email trivialising the issue to "here's how you change your phone number on ebay!" so i've replied attempting to educate them on the merits of actually listening to the actual issue rather than assuming
<daftykins> 3 separate phone staff i went through, too XD
<daftykins> i kept trying to say i was trying to report an issue with the site, but they all wanted to just see that i had the number on my account so everything must be fine!
<davmor2> daftykins: actually most of us do without realising it.  any mobile that contacts you is +44 if it is a uk registered number and you copy that to your addressbook ;)
<zmoylan-pi> i miss my original psion 3a.  you'd put a phone number in and when you told it were the number was and where you were it would display and dial using a keyboard shortcut the correct number with all the needed country and area codes necessary
<daftykins> yeah that's true, i've seen the difference between someone one-ringing you to share a number and it having the full format... versus if you just save starting from the 07781
<ali1234> so heres a thing
<popey> i save all numbers in my contacts with +NN MMMMM XXXXYYY
<popey> have done for many years
<ali1234> daftykins: did you perhaps originally sign up to ebay under a UK address?
<ali1234> the form is asking you to confirm your number, not update it, so perhaps they think your number is a UK one. (perhaps they didn't have a separate code for GG when you signed up)
<daftykins> i did wonder if it were rejecting the number as Guernsey based on matching it to my account, but none of their staff got that far in the logic so far
<davmor2> popey: +1 it is useful for when you are out of the country that is for sure
<daftykins> mmm i discovered that a while back
<daftykins> international dialling is hard
<davmor2> oh new car is in the local garage at last now I get to see the petrol blue for real :D
<daftykins> on another topic it seems HDMI audio is to blame for my pi experiments, might have to be on to the devs!
<diddledan_> moooorning
<daftykins> diddledan_: what time do you call this!
 * diddledan_ checks his watch
<diddledan_> 4pm
<daftykins> =]
<daftykins> postie came with my pi at 9:30am!
<diddledan_> :-o
<diddledan_> omg that's early
<daftykins> hehe
<daftykins> bit late for them, usually 9:15 but there are some town festivities on right now
<daftykins> i could hear a brass band from my windows at that time
<diddledan_> http://www.macrumors.com/2013/05/09/14-year-old-discovers-ipad-smart-cover-magnets-can-shut-off-pacemakers/
<diddledan_> too much technology
<daftykins> so Apple really do want to kill people
<MartijnVdS> want to.. or just DO
<daftykins> crazy old Dell with reclining mode cooler - https://www.dropbox.com/sh/z7irva9kz3cqm72/AABwTaOsK6furOUkPekFgKsfa?dl=0
<daftykins> sorta backwards design form factor too, always found them weird
<diddledan_> damn that's dusty
<diddledan_> butt ugly inside the box, too
<daftykins> 'tis a 3GHz Pentium D 925
<diddledan_> D for Disaster
<daftykins> maybe so for looks, but 11 years on and it's still goin'
<diddledan_> radom fella: https://youtu.be/7L0k2-kO_yc
<daftykins> aww it's too old and rubbish to take a 45nm core 2 duo :P
<davmor2> diddledan_: seriously you need help
<diddledan_> :-)
<daftykins> i considered this a safe haven from US politics ;_; how wrong i was
<davmor2> daftykins: hahahahahahaha
<daftykins> was it 'lm' for a CPU instruction flag to support 64-bit? i forget
<ali1234> lm?
<ali1234> you mean for gcc? -m64
<daftykins> no there's a flag in /proc/cpuinfo that indicates whether it's a 64-bit capable chip
<daftykins> i thought...
<daftykins> nevermind, yes it is :D
<MartijnVdS> Long Mode
<MartijnVdS> is what that stands for
<ali1234> ah
<daftykins> oof a twitch user out playing pokÃ©mon in a public park got SWAT'd by a viewer, what an ass
<daftykins> that's when they call the police and send them to your location claiming you have guns and/or bombs etc
<zmoylan-pi> that's what happens when you have phone networks that don't do proper caller id allowing for calls to be spoofed from any location
<foobarry> some corporate spammer sent one of those "how about a call on friday at 11am" mails and forgot to bcc. cue mass reply all where load of eejits decide to put their oar in
<popey> hah
<foobarry> everyone replying all saying PLEASE STOP REPLYING ALL
<zmoylan-pi> the joys of out of office messages on those is fantastic
<daftykins> hmm if you knew two people out of office and you faked the sender to one of the two, i wonder if MS have thought about that one...
<daftykins> sounds like a bug from the last couple of years :)
<zmoylan-pi> and didn't they put up a sign that said 'out of office' in welsh after sending text for a sign to be translated?
<daftykins> saw that story but i don't remember it saying it was MS
<zmoylan-pi> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/wales/7702913.stm
<zmoylan-pi> not the generic out of office message no
<Welshman> Hi everyone in this channel/chatroom and I am Linux Mint user. Yes I do know this channel/chatroom is for Ubuntu users but the last time I visited I did receive answers/replies. So, I have a question and it is just one.
<Welshman> How do I make sure that there are 'up and down' scrollbar arrows for each window and the Menu panel for Linux Mint?
<Welshman> Look forward to any reply and I thank you in advance.
<Welshman> Leaving channel/room for a few minutes whilst I await a reply. Thanks again.
<daftykins> you're correct, take that to the correct IRC network and channel for Mint, thanks
<daftykins> !mint
<lubotu3> Linux Mint is not a supported derivative of Ubuntu. Please seek support in #linuxmint-help on irc.spotchat.org
<daftykins> you're on the wrong server
<Welshman> Have just returned to check/to see if anyone has answered my/replied to my question. I can see know has yet. So, I will leave again for for a few minutes to play a game whilst I continue to wait for an answer/reply to my question. Thanks in advanced to anyone who does. Back as soon as possible. : )
<daftykins> Welshman: you're in the wrong place, please go to the right place and stop using this as your resource
<daftykins> Mint runs desktops that aren't necessarily even available in ubuntu, so it's wrong to ask
<Welshman> daftykins: H and thanks for your reply. Also, the last time I visited the "right place" I did not receive an answer/a reply and that was after waiting for several minutes. I even sent a message to the 2 or 3 persons listed through private message. So, if you do not mind I will wait for a bit longer to see if someone will answer/reply to my question (someone 'new' might enter the channel/chatroom)! : )
<Welshman> Will now leave again to carry on playing a game whilst I continue to wait for an answer/reply to my question. Thanks in advance to anyone who does. Back as soon as possible! : )
<daftykins> and so the ignore is set.
<Welshman> daftykins: Have just returned again briefly to check/to see if anyone has answered my/replied to my question. I can see no one has. So, I have a question to ask you. My question is: Do you know where else I can visit (that is channel/chatroom) so that I can ask my question other than the "right place"/#linuxmint-help or the Linux Mint forum? Appreciate any link or answer/reply. Thanks in advance. : )
<Welshman> daftykins: Leaving again to carry on playing a game whilst I wait for your response. Thanks in advance. Back as soon as possible! :
<Welshman> daftykins: *: )
<diddledan> everyone watch dark matter - good series
<diddledan> also, the expanse
<diddledan> another good one
<daftykins> i was watching The Expanse but i can't even remember if i finished the last ep
<daftykins> i seem to be developing a habit for not finishing things
<diddledan> lol
<daftykins> hmm my mate has just called to say he's packed his wife off to Guernsey for a week and that her phone broke, so looks like i'm going to be performing surgery on an HTC One M8!
<daftykins> :D
<diddledan> \o.
<diddledan> err
<diddledan> \o/
<daftykins> it requires more glue melting! https://d3nevzfk7ii3be.cloudfront.net/igi/2YsuBPkZFkn3tTKp
<zmoylan-pi> give her a nokia 3310 as a loner... :-)
<diddledan> eww
<Welshman> daftykins: Sorry to disturb you. Also, have returned and can see that you have not answered the recent question that I sent to you. So, if you do not mind I will repeat it again to see if anyone else can or will answer/reply to it. Thanks in advance. : )
<daftykins> i bet even dumbphones are having their batteries conk out these days
<Welshman> daftykins: Back soon. Playing a game. Thanks again.
<diddledan> daftykins: are you the point-of-contact for all help requests now?
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> well this one was my mums i sold to his wife when they were last over, but really he asked first if i knew anywhere locally doing repair...
<diddledan> nono, I was referring to the Welshman
<diddledan> "I've just arrived. daftykins, you once said something to me so I'm going to badger you forever more!"
<daftykins> haha he's stuck on a delayed Southern train heading back to Lewes where they have a place, we were just talking about that train co's woes the other day :)
<daftykins> oh right
<daftykins> yeah i ignored Welshman so he gets the message about being in the WRONG PLACE for Mint.
<diddledan> aah, so you're not seeing him attempting to get you to reply
<daftykins> ooh he'd badmouthing the Tories now
<daftykins> UK politics go!
<diddledan> \o/
<daftykins> nope 100% ignored
<daftykins> !mint | Welshman
<lubotu3> Welshman: Linux Mint is not a supported derivative of Ubuntu. Please seek support in #linuxmint-help on irc.spotchat.org
<daftykins> if you can't get support from them, perhaps you're on the wrong distribution
<diddledan> ^^^ that
<daftykins> oh my dear Tux no, you have to take the motherboard off to get to the battery!
<daftykins> HTC might be even worse than Apple...
<daftykins> brb let me find some old people with a pacemaker to test on...
<diddledan> good question, that: how did the teenager discover that they're susceptible to ipads?
<daftykins> i feel like that's a youngster with a large number of iPads for sale
<daftykins> maybe some false teeth sets too...
<diddledan> I wonder whether they tested on a live patient or if they just assumed
<Welshman> Have briefly returned to repeat my question that I recently posted. My question is: Does anyone know where else I can visit (that is channel/chatroom) so that I can ask my question,*that I posted earlier, other than the "right place"/#linuxmint-help or the Linux Mint forum?
<Welshman> *The following is my question that I posted earlier, just incase anyone is interested: How do I make sure that there are 'up and down' scrollbar arrows for each window and the Menu panel for Linux Mint?
<Welshman> Thanks to anyone in advance. Also, back soon as possible as leaving room to play a game whilst I await for reply! : )
<daftykins> since it's a kid, it can't have been much legit - maybe his own grandparent kept one and they saw it happen at home, or it really was a live one
<diddledan> they might have had murderous intentions and once their plot was completed they published the issue to provide legitimacy
<daftykins> "it weren't me guv, it was the fruity tech!"
<daftykins> man shauno would not have lasted 5 minutes in here with us :(
<diddledan> why use a small word when an infinitesimal verbiage readily suffices?
<daftykins> which did you have in mind?
<diddledan> I said that in response to my large-worded thing just before - lots of words like murderous and intentions and legitimacy. I got scared.
<daftykins> oh yes
<daftykins> you should have presented some beautiful alliteration
 * diddledan runs away
<diddledan> (screaming)
<Welshman> Have briefly returned again to check/to see if anyone has answered/replied to my recently posted question and my earlier posted question. I can see that no one has. So, will now leave to search online to try to find an answer to my first earlier posted question and I will not be visiting "right place"/#linuxmint-help or the Linux Mint forum! But, I might return here again in the future. Thanks to all! : )
<diddledan> smh
<daftykins> mmm?
<diddledan> Welshman
<daftykins> still going eh?
<diddledan> aye
<daftykins> troll status confirmed
<diddledan> anti-toll weaponry targetting
<daftykins> i had some delightful racism in #kodi today, only we have no active ops there, know what #freenode told me to do?
<daftykins> ignore and deal with it.
<daftykins> they're ace
<diddledan> ergh
<diddledan> again, smh
<diddledan> #WordPress gets painful at times, too
<daftykins> ooh dear
<daftykins> i take it that gets trolls questioning it as a 'product' despite all woes being from plugin security and admin maintenance?
<diddledan> yeah, and folk that refuse to understand that if they have a commercial plugin/theme that we cannot possibly support them
<diddledan> I mean, we could try, but we can't replicate their problem unless we pay for it ourselves
<daftykins> oh dear, yep that's an all too common theme (excuse the pun)
<daftykins> yeah - and dollars to doughnuts the dev might even have a newer version they've neglected to research :(
<daftykins> i quite like that themeforest that'll email you when a plugin has had a security woe in a prior edition
<diddledan> we seem to get a regular meme of someone saying "my friend bought it" which usually means "I downloaded it off a warez site"
<daftykins> :(
<diddledan> if the premium product had been purchased legitimately then there'd be some form of support entitlement presumably
<daftykins> wow this amazon seller lists a number and i thought it was fake - 01212121214
<daftykins> yeah that's true, so it falls to IRC hassle
<diddledan> another one is people who ask how to do something that WordPress isn't designed to do out of the box and complain when they're asked to do programming
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> hmm Â£17 battery then Â£7 express shipping, from Birmingham
<daftykins> i guess free is what it is, then express they give 'em a compass and point south? :D
<diddledan> wow, 50% on-top for shipping. that's impressive.
<diddledan> I wonder how many sites quote 1-day shipping without noticing that you're an island in the middle of the pond
<daftykins> oh totally, it's why prime would be such a joke here
<diddledan> so. amazon. they have warehouses on the islands. do they ship from those to the mainland and then back-out to the islands again when your order is via there
<diddledan> ?
<daftykins> when i was leaving a clients today a huge guy got out of a shifty white van and struggled over with a huge amazon pantry box
<daftykins> haha no they don't have warehouses on the islands
<diddledan> o_O
<daftykins> the UK goverment closed that no VAT under Â£20 loophole we had, so everyone closed up and moved next day
<diddledan> oh
<diddledan> they _used_ to then
<daftykins> that was Low Value Consignment Relief or LVCR
<daftykins> it was only play.com way back when on Jersey and HMV had their warehouse here
<daftykins> also 7dayshop.com - who i've done pickups from, they had to move
<daftykins> they'd not long had a purpose built warehouse here too :D
<diddledan> yeah - I remember ordering a load of cheap DVDs off amazon several years ago only to have each one arrive in a separate jiffy bag. on the same day as all the others. by walking postman. I had the postie stood outside my place for 15 minutes pushing them through my letterbox one-by-one
<daftykins> >_<
<daftykins> was that with the 'group my order together' option too?
<daftykins> mmm that was the loophole sadly :(
<diddledan> indigo starfish was the name they went-under back then
<daftykins> ah yes
<daftykins> oh umm that vitamin one was locally based too, i went on a tour of their warehouse when i was in College
<daftykins> Healthspan
<diddledan> and yeah the order was set to "ship as they become available" which usually does the right thing
<daftykins> presumably they've been knocked on the head too
<daftykins> seller doesn't post to Guernsey
<daftykins> raaaaaaaage moooooode
<diddledan> seriously, why do they do that?!
<daftykins> might have a deal with a courier that we don't have, perhaps - at least that's my best guess
<diddledan> is it just to ignore the tax differences?
<diddledan> hmm, maybe
<daftykins> could be, they do tend to all say they include VAT - but when it's like Â£15 for a battery i never even bother
<daftykins> like, woo i could get Â£3, or let them buy 3/4 of a pint ;D
<daftykins> damn that was the best result yet :(
<daftykins> ooh this one is from Hayes, we're getting closer and closer to the plane XD
<daftykins> mind you they can't fly batteries can they :(
<diddledan> damn
<diddledan> that means slow-ass boats
<daftykins> yeah :(
<daftykins> haha, clients secretary tells me today that he's coming back to the island for 2 days right, so she booked the boat for him... Â£120
<daftykins> Poole -> Guernsey -> Poole
#ubuntu-uk 2016-07-27
<mapps> hi
<knightwise> morning mapps
<knightwise> anyone know anything about Wget or Curl ? i have a bit of a challenge
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<knightwise> hey brobostigon
<brobostigon> hi knightwise
<knightwise> brobostigon: do you know anyting about Wget ?
<knightwise> I'm trying to download a podcast archive from ing timeout: 258 seconds]
<knightwise> 20:41 -!- ubot9 [asm@ubuntu/bot/ubot93] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 second
<knightwise> sorry , wrong paste
<knightwise> http://hotcoffee.org/na_page/Podcasts/DSCPodcasts.aspx
<knightwise> but Wget only gives me the files on the first page and all the other pages have the same ur
<knightwise> l
<brobostigon> not really, othr than the obvious. sorry.
<knightwise> np
<czajkowski> morning
<davmor2> Morning all
<czajkowski> davmor2: hows tricks?
<davmor2> quite good today I managed to make my desktop disappear by just turning my system on grrrrr nvidia binaries
<davmor2> other than that great I can put a card anywhere in the deck and make it appear on top as if by magic
<davmor2> oh you meant how am I didn't you ;)  I'm good ta czajkowski how am ya
<czajkowski> davmor2: well you of all people are talented so you know, anything is possible
<popey> bah, silly github
<popey> people are forking UnrealEngine and you get autosubscribed to the forks
<popey> slow clap
<knightwise> popey: you back from germania yet ?
<JamesTait> Good morning all!  Happy Wednesday, and happy Take Your Houseplant For A Walk Day! ð  ð· ð¹
<MooDoo> morning all
<popey> knightwise: yup
 * awilkins is installing Win10 in a VM
<awilkins> Sod this "run Ubuntu on Windows" thing. I'm running Windows on Ubuntu.
<knightwise> awilkins: goodforyou :)
<daftykins> they're not even remotely comparable :P
<awilkins> I know
<awilkins> But meh
<knightwise> :) /me is downloading all the old Daily sourcecode episodes :)
<knightwise>  Podcast nostaliga
<popey> adam curry?
<davmor2> popey: why would you curry adam sweet that's not gonna be tasty at all :P
<popey> mmm, curry
<popey> also, just remembered I have some chicken wings left over which I can re-heat for lunch
<popey> huzzah
<daftykins> everyone over to popey's for lunch!
 * popey quickly easts all the wings
<daftykins> :o
 * davmor2 moves popey back to the west so everyone else can eat the wings
<knightwise> popey: correct :)
<knightwise>  I found podcasting through the DSC in 2004
<knightwise> I actually found the ep where the name "Knightwise" is mentioned on a podcast for the very first time :)
<daftykins> fame!
<DJones> infamy more like
<davmor2> JamesTait: walking house plants you say https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0HLGkgM5U50
<DJones> As As Kenneth Williams said "Infamy! Infamy! They've all got it in for me!"
<daftykins> amazing, i read that in the voice of Ken Bruce from Radio 2 :D
<knightwise> DJones: oh ... We where young and naive
<DJones> knightwise: You speak for yourself, I still consider myself to be young and naive
 * daftykins allows everyone to draw straws
<DJones> ok, I  might be hitting 50 next month so young(ish) and naive
<czajkowski> .c
<daftykins> whatever my old graphics card was doing to these machines i've been working on, it seemed to be ruining their BIOSs - a reflash of one is making it behave again o0
<popey> speaking of infamy.. did I mention my encounter on a german train last week?
<davmor2> popey: and the guy saying Popey when he heard you
<daftykins> followed by a car chase with a man in a penguin suit
<popey> haha
<popey> :)
<daftykins> should get my new keyboard by the weekend \o/
<daftykins> no more basic membrane-based Dell cheapy!
<zmoylan-pi> a proper ibm model m or modern remake? :-)
<zmoylan-pi> a backup weapon in event of zombie apocalypse...
<daftykins> oh dear no, that'd be a bit too hipster a choice
<daftykins> :) my das keyboard had about that amount of heft to it, before it began regularly dropping vowels
<zmoylan-pi> not built to the same industrial level of quality
<daftykins> yu culd tell my keybard had a prblem with O's
<daftykins> well i couldn't bear to use a thing without super
<zmoylan-pi> that's when you use 0 instead of leet speek
<daftykins> :>
<daftykins> hmm pesky slow paying clients, how'd you handle those, zmoylan-pi?
<daftykins> threaten to swap all their mouses for comedy ones?
<zmoylan-pi> i show them my collection of hammers
<zmoylan-pi> ...and then my collection of singing potatos... :-P
<daftykins> wow, that ought to be worse than sitting through a Celine Dion concert
<zmoylan-pi> no one has complained... >:-)
<daftykins> not more than once, at least
<zmoylan-pi> and if you start counting at 0 it all balances out...
 * daftykins hands zmoylan-pi an old CPU
 * zmoylan-pi sniffs the cpu and determined it came from the north side of the intel plant at leixlip...
<daftykins> :>
<MartijnVdS> LonelyGirl15 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lonelygirl15) uses Ubuntu https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qwklfIbSAgA
<diddledan> I think I must have missed lonelygirl15, I don't remember it
<zmoylan-pi> it was a marketing scheme from yonks back that seems to have restarted
<zmoylan-pi> from 2006... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lonelygirl15
<solarisfire> Hey guys, how come I still can't upgrade my 14.04 LTS servers to 16.04.1 even though it's at the point release now??
<daftykins> because it needs to be ok'd
<daftykins> and it hasn't!
<daftykins> don't be in a rush to fix what isn't broken ;)
<solarisfire> But I <3 new shiny stuffz XD
<daftykins> as much as you love your backups and breakage?
<solarisfire> What's a backup?
<daftykins> goodbye.
<solarisfire> Haha XD
<solarisfire> Fine, I'll wait...
<solarisfire> *sits patiently*
<daftykins> do it silently :P
<daftykins> haha, track a package on yodel - "your item was at your local depot at 00:26 today"
<daftykins> *click more detail* your local depot - Southampton
<daftykins> doh!
<diddledan> trouble at tor appears to be concluded? https://blog.torproject.org/blog/statement-0
<diddledan> daftykins: yodel are evil
<daftykins> you have to do it where there's an echo, sir
<daftykins> it doesn't really matter too much because we just have folks in white vans that operate as a given courier, so if their rep in England is bad, you'd have to be pretty rubbish to fail at deliveries in an island
<daftykins> hmm folk in other channels tried to pass off the Tor thing as being a psychological campaign to discredit the project by the US gov, but it'd be quite the work to get folk to come up with the accusations that've been going around
<daftykins> strikes me that that project is not a safe one to go near
<diddledan> echos as in: https://youtu.be/DBVTBTUbKdU?t=37
<daftykins> the very same, but more like coming off a mountainside
<daftykins> oh i just remembered a thing i was supposed to do!
<diddledan> pee?
<daftykins> no!
<daftykins> client got a text from O2 about his 'upgrade' coming up, which i'm a bit puzzled on since we have a SIM only service for him there
<diddledan> haha
<daftykins> one of my jobs a bit ago was to research UK telcos and pick him one for his worldwide travel
<daftykins> because on-island telcos charge a lot just to go to England, most folk have to carry two phones
<popey> dual sim phones ftw
<daftykins> that would not work with things like whatsapp
<popey> why?
<daftykins> the single instance app handled identity by phone number, so if you switched from one to the other you'd have to be tied to just one of them as your identity
<daftykins> *handles
<popey> people have multiple whatsapp accounts?
<daftykins> my client does
<daftykins> i wonder how the app even sees those phones
<daftykins> i suppose they're developed to consider one primary?
<popey> works fine here, with only one account
<popey> it doesn't care about the phone number once authed
<daftykins> ah i suppose it's only when a SIM is removed it drops some bricks
<popey> I haven't had that problem
<popey> I swap sims a lot when travelling
<daftykins> for some reason i had it in my head that you have to reboot between SIMs, but now i think about it i've seen those phones where both are connected at once
<popey> 2fa tied to one sim, so i have to put that one in sometimes
<popey> then swap back to local sim for better data rates
<daftykins> mmm that must be fun
<popey> yeah, now I use 2nd sim slot for SD card, it's more annoying
<popey> try not to do 2fa type things when away
<popey> or have another 2fa auth provider like google authenticator
<daftykins> yarr
<daftykins> my MS one has decided it won't pop up auto anymore and makes me enter codes from it like the google one :(
<popey> :(
<daftykins> i quite liked the auto one, it would just come up with a notification with allow/deny
<popey> i re-flashed phone and now use sd card which makes it impossibe to use two sims now
<daftykins> i suppose one plus the ubuntu phone OS might have is not going redundant so quick like android...
<daftykins> very strange news claiming blackberry are producing another handset, they don't realise they're dead!
<popey> daughter had two teeth out today. she looks like she's had botox on her lips
<popey> quite amusing
<daftykins> XD
<daftykins> best control the social media shares, otherwise you'll be on the daily mail before bed time ;)
<popey> heh
<daftykins> time to raid the 4 pack of blueberry muffins in the kitchen :)
<diddledan> they won't last long once you've started on them
<daftykins> such is their fate
<diddledan> the red-band trailer for sausage party is awesome (and not safe for kids)
<daftykins> as is that whole sentence :o
<daftykins> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJXXckWLc0E bikes i would not ride O_O
<DJones> Sheesh.. Nut job
<DJones> That looks like something a clown would ride at billy smarts circus
<daftykins> diddledan: https://i.imgur.com/iSNS67H.jpg
<SebthreeBQM10HD_> hi
<SebthreeBQM10HD> hi
<popey> SebthreeBQM10HD: hello
<SebthreeBQM10HD> 1
<daftykins> 2
<SebthreeBQM10HD> daftykins, 3
<daftykins> sup
<SebthreeBQM10HD> nm u
<daftykins> mmm sorting old these old PCs still!
<daftykins> two core 2 quads with 8GB RAM now \o/
<daftykins> and SSDs
<SebthreeBQM10HD> oh
<daftykins> pretty decent for spares
<diddledan> daftykins: I'm not sure that cat is properly earthed
<daftykins> it's funny, i used to joke with a guy on quakenet many moons ago that it was all about rubbing parts on your cat before fitting them
<MooDoo> whatsaaaaap!
<diddledan> I have no idea what the point of WhatsApp is
<daftykins> watchin' the game, having anything except Bud
<diddledan> true.
<diddledan> https://youtu.be/NsJLhRGPv-M
<daftykins> yep could not finish :P
<diddledan> interesting: http://qz.com/741933/internet-trolls-are-even-more-hostile-when-theyre-using-their-real-names-a-study-finds/
<SebthreeBQM10HD> hi
<daftykins> oof nothing like blowing your lighting circuit to wake you up
<daftykins> *click* to turn on the bathroom light, *POP* and everything went :>
<diddledan> \o/
<diddledan> RCDs are too sensitive at times
<daftykins> it's amusing because that's one plugged into my old porcelain fuse wire board :P
<daftykins> the only one... in fact
<daftykins> *sigh* i see the sensational journalists are at it again about the next windows 10 release already
<daftykins> "rah rah you can't turn off Cortana zomg!"
<daftykins> excuse me sir, may i point out that you're running a _Microsoft_ account in order to access that insider preview build?
<daftykins> ugh.
 * zmoylan-pi wonders if there's money in a service that will disable the mic on laptops/phones...
<daftykins> ah the tinfoilers would never go for it, you'd have to do teardowns and unplug
<zmoylan-pi> i have a few old android phones here i'm tempted to try drilling into the mic a few mm to see what the kill depth is...
<daftykins> earlier i was half wondering if old phones could be used instead of Pis for the music player i made out of mine
<daftykins> i was just enjoying some more Vangelis Blade Runner soundtrack down in my lounge from it :)
<zmoylan-pi> can't go wrong with vangelis...
<daftykins> i was debating buying this pair of Wharfedale Diamond 9.1's and a NAD amp off a local trade site
<daftykins> my bedroom setup is quite rubbish
<diddledan> Microsoft are doing more Linux stuff: https://blogs.windows.com/msedgedev/2016/07/27/chakracore-on-linux-osx/
<daftykins> Chakra, must be Naruto
<diddledan> it's the javascript stuff ripped from edge
<diddledan> they're putting it into nodejs as an alternative from the google v8
<daftykins> time for bed, g'night!
#ubuntu-uk 2016-07-28
<mappps> good morning
<diddledan> mooorning
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<davmor2> Mornign all
<davmor2> Morning all even
<brobostigon> morning davmor2
<daftykins> morning all \o
<daftykins> oooh yes my glorious new keyboard is here :D sweet mechanical keys again instead of horrid membrane
<brobostigon> morning daftykins
<brobostigon> :)
<diddledan> daftykins: I think one of my new rams is bust
<daftykins> o rry? does it stop POST or is it causing instability?
<diddledan> it would bluescreen randomly
<daftykins> ah and the reasons keep changing?
<diddledan> yup
<daftykins> is it stuff that requires you set an XMP setting in the BIOS, or just bog standard?
<diddledan> I ran windows' inbuilt memory test and it said problems. removed two sticks and now it passes the same test
<daftykins> pin it down with memtest86+ :)
<diddledan> yeah, I might do that later - set it going overnight
<daftykins> nah just do it on the suspected bad DIMM, it'll only take like 15 minutes for a 4GB module if that
<daftykins> i got 2400MHz stuff myself, so i set it to its' XMP setting in the BIOS
<daftykins> also ugh at my old motherboard causing one of the core 2 quad PCs to stop POSTing again, so i think it's time to call that motherboard dead
<daftykins> or at least unreliable!
<diddledan> war of attrition - change everything until you can prove a negative
<daftykins> :)
<daftykins> got to decide whether i just take the motherboard from the lowest specced system, as it's quite a nice one, or get another off ebay
<diddledan> "it hasn't died for the last 3 reboots. does that mean it's fixed or just not completely dead?"
<daftykins> hehe, it's funny because it does it when it's unplugged from the mains, but it's not the CMOS battery
<diddledan> I hate the analogue nature of digital-equipment failures
<daftykins> yeah i'd much rather a true death, although then i'd be sat for ages faffing trying to get it to POST i suppose
<diddledan> I like binary - alive or dead
<diddledan> https://youtu.be/r3cM5P8tUhc?t=26
<daftykins> :>
<daftykins> bit sad that videos info didn't tell me what on earth it was
<diddledan> portable computer from 1980 with a CRT display! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l5SzKM7g5Ds
<daftykins> kHz!
<daftykins> gm JamesTait o/
<JamesTait> Good morning all!  Happy Thursday, and happy Milk Chocolate Day! ð  ð«
<diddledan> that's a day I can get behind!
<JamesTait> ð daftykins
 * JamesTait reaches for the Milk Tray.
<diddledan> I'm going to pre-empt davmor2 to make his job more difficult because he can't duplicate: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQCQnARnKbc
<JamesTait> I couldn't eat any now, I'm too full of fruit and oats.
<daftykins> i wanted you to have said 'fruit and nut'
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> diddledan: haha i love the line 'playing along at home' i use that myself :>
<JamesTait> Oh, I forgot the nuts!
<daftykins> Cadburys Dairy Milk fruit and nut ;D
<JamesTait> Yum
<diddledan> +1
<davmor2> diddledan, JamesTait: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LAjIn6SJK5Y
 * daftykins hears the brass band starting again
<JamesTait> davmor2, I don't know where my boys heard this, but they went through a phase of singing it constantly a few years ago.
<diddledan> oh god that's an earworm
<davmor2> diddledan: hey you only have yourself to blame you stole shanks and bigfoot
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> touchÃ©
<daftykins> diddledan: https://youtu.be/yac6YByAcRc?t=520 D:
<daftykins> ITS EVERYWHERE!
<czajkowski> Myrtti: ping mind a dm ?
<daftykins> PM :P
 * daftykins teases czajkowski's twitter talk
 * czajkowski slaps daftykins
<czajkowski> things you cant do on twitter but you can on IRC! :)
 * daftykins gains a red face :o
<popey>  
<daftykins>  
<diddledan>  
<czajkowski> speechless who'd have thought it would happen
<SebthreeBQM10HD> ubuntu
<diddledan> correct
<SebthreeBQM10HD> that was a test thing just done 0TA 12
<Myrtti> czajkowski: sure
<czajkowski> Myrtti: tis sorted now
<czajkowski> sorry
<daftykins> mmmm lovely new keys
<daftykins> Â£80 admittedly, but i thoroughly recommend the steelseries M500 keyboard
<daftykins> given i was linking to tall bikes yesterday, i just ran into one!
<daftykins> http://imgur.com/a/pIr9T
<daftykins> this guy was employing child labour to push him around
<diddledan> daftykins: I think we need to report him then
<ghostnetpc> report who
<diddledan> huh?
<diddledan> was he worried I meant him?
<daftykins> lol
<daftykins> probably, tinfoil freenoders everywhere!
<daftykins> can't believe i raised an RMA ticket on some 7 year old RAM :D go Corsair \o/
<diddledan> wow
<diddledan> thatâs impressive
<daftykins> they might still tell me it's not under the lifetime one but we'll see :>
<Seeker`> daftykins: I suspect their response will be "LOL"
<daftykins> Seeker`: when their products carry a "Lifetime Warranty" ? bold claim sir :P
<davmor2> daftykins: man that's cheating it has 3 wheels
<daftykins> wat
<diddledan> the bike
<davmor2> diddledan: 3 wheels remember the trike ;)
<diddledan> good point
<daftykins> oh i see, a topic hop threw me!
<davmor2> daftykins: sorry playing catchup :)
<daftykins> ^_^ np
<daftykins> the clowns were pretty ace
<daftykins> nice, Corsair just replied asking if i only had one kit faulty
<daftykins> now that is support.
<DJones> daftykins: They were all faulty weren't they, time for a replacement
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> guy that used to work for this client took that office PC home for himself so i don't know what it's up to now
<diddledan> I miss this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gsNaR6FRuO0
 * daftykins doesn't
<DJones> I'm with daftykins on that
<diddledan> only the sound, not the speeds
<Seeker`> I hope that's the old ladies video
<daftykins> i was about to say no, i much prefer the instant sync of VDSL... but the routers i've used take a fair while to sync
<Seeker`> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dTos3CsvnLQ
<daftykins> that's scary
<diddledan> https://youtu.be/yhYEWvWkWLg
<daftykins> wow.
<daftykins> LOL my 7 year old RAM RMA has been accepted - Corsair are ace
<diddledan> watching london has fallen. they blow the poo out everything
<zmoylan-pi> 2016 has taken garibaldi... http://www.epictimes.com/07/28/2016/j-michael-straczynskis-statement-death-jerry-doyle/ :-(
<diddledan> NOOOOOOooooooo
<diddledan> it sounds like it's widdling-down outside
<daftykins> it's gone very gloomy here! i've had to actually close up the windows again from super summer mode++
<daftykins> diddledan: https://youtu.be/7S5IuaKiZIY?t=225
<diddledan> wow
<daftykins> MODEM SOLO!
<daftykins> i had that Lasat modem in blue, too
<zmoylan-pi> i only dealt with usr modems thank gorky
<daftykins> ah the Lasat was ace, when we got it though it had a 9 pin serial cable and the mouse was 9 pin too :( only one port on the PC
<daftykins> took weeks to beg the old man to go back and buy a 25 to 9 adapter
<zmoylan-pi> yeah, i had to scan in a huge dublin map on a pc with 1 serial port, using serial mouse, serial scanner. eventually found a ps/2 mouse that decided it would work...
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> i loved the article about Australia being off its' GPS data right now because of the plate shift
<zmoylan-pi> of course it meant nicking the newest shiniest mouse from my boss to do the job...
<daftykins> zmoylan-pi: what a coincidence!
<zmoylan-pi> 7mb of b&w pcx images of dublin city to add a map facility to crm software...
<zmoylan-pi> written in basic for extra difficulty bonus points... :-)
<zmoylan-pi> it worked suprisingly fast on 286's with 640k of ram...
<daftykins> 7 whole megabytes!
<daftykins> i always think it'd be ace to grab some of today's tech and travel back in time to an 80s CES equivalent and show it all
<zmoylan-pi> hard disks were 40mb so it was a _lot_
<daftykins> oh i recall the 486 apricots we got at home with the 40MB removable cassette drives
<daftykins> beastly
<zmoylan-pi> phones would be meh compared to pdas of 90s.  90% of their functionality wouldn't work without cloud
<daftykins> that's a little bit like saying your life raft doesn't work without the sea, though
<zmoylan-pi> you'd have to drag a laptop back.  and while it would be smaller and shinier with way more spec it would be... just a laptop
<daftykins> well it would also be thin enough to cut cheese!
<zmoylan-pi> and without wifi and a lot of network infrastructure it wouldn't talk to contemporary hardware
<zmoylan-pi> copy that file to a floppy... :-)
<ali1234> i would take a selfie stick back in time
<zmoylan-pi> or send the file via serial cable...
<ali1234> people would be so confused by it
<zmoylan-pi> i saw a pic of a selfie stick in 1920s iirc
<ali1234> i'd take one of the ones with a fake hand on it
<zmoylan-pi> they were rigging cameras for self pics back then too
<ali1234> http://home.bt.com/images/youll-never-be-alone-with-the-selfie-arm-136397833140103901-150429131736.jpg
<zmoylan-pi> if you want to crush their spirit take a modern printer so they can see how bad they still are...
<zmoylan-pi> what you could do is bring a printout of the linux kernel back...
<ali1234> tbh there isn't much around today that wasn't predicted in popular culture in the 80s
<zmoylan-pi> ^this
<ali1234> or at least sci-fi
<zmoylan-pi> when i see tradeshows announcements there's next to nothing exciting
<ali1234> it's plenty exciting
<ali1234> it would be to an 80s guy anyway
<zmoylan-pi> the last thing that made me go wow was psion pdas.  they were insanely good compared even to desktop computers of the time
<ali1234> raspberry pi is pretty impressive
<zmoylan-pi> now the pi _is_ fantastic... but it's revolution isn't technical but more almost social.  so many of them they created an instant community of hardware geeks
<ali1234> yeah but even so... the price and capability are amazing
<zmoylan-pi> pure moores law
<ali1234> it destroys anything over about 10 years old
<ali1234> let alone 80s
<zmoylan-pi> but someone decided instead of making a better faster machine for normal prices make a cheap as chips full system
<ali1234> we have those too they are called i7
<zmoylan-pi> when i started a pc was around irÂ£3000. and it dropped and dropped till now you can get a cheap laptop for â¬200
<zmoylan-pi> but some of them 3k computers are still ticking along whereas sub â¬300 laptops will be dead in 10 years
<ali1234> i think the most impressive thing you could take back would be a 16GB micro sd card. "yes, this 1cm square stores an order of magnitude more than every computer here, and it costs the same as a cup of coffee"
<ali1234> *every computer put together
<zmoylan-pi> i remember my visor neo, getting an sd sled and adding a 16mb card to it.  all the books i could carry compressed onto it!! :-)
<daftykins> i was more getting at taking things back to demo the performance, not the concepts
<ali1234> yeah it wouldn't be a very interesting demo, but the numbers...
<zmoylan-pi> and that's the hard part.  you'd need to drag back a lot of hardware.  otherwise it's just another box with blinky lights and a promise that's doing cool stugg
<zmoylan-pi> *stuff
<daftykins> i don't think so
<ali1234> if you want to wow people, a gear vr would do it
<zmoylan-pi> for a % of the population it doesn't work and/or makes them throw up
<ali1234> same with rollercoasters man
<ali1234> i don't get this idea that you can't make vr games that make people sick
<ali1234> if you don't get sick playing a fighter jet simulation it isn't immersive enough in my opinion
<zmoylan-pi> now a good mp3 player might be the most bang per buck in terms of functionality.  here's a box the size of a pack of ciggies and it contains months of music
<zmoylan-pi> plus tv shows and movies...
<ali1234> mp3 players are out of date now. people just stream
<zmoylan-pi> many people just stream... many don't
<ali1234> old people :)
<zmoylan-pi> people in rural areas without broadband
<ali1234> and hipsters
<zmoylan-pi> people in dead zones where no amount of infrastrucure seems to work
<ali1234> i'm waiting for CDs to become fashionable again so i can sell all mine to hipsters
<zmoylan-pi> tight people who refuse to pay for data
<ali1234> but they only want records and VHS tapes
<ali1234> and cassettes
<ali1234> give it another 10 years though...
<zmoylan-pi> especially now japan has stopped making them...
<zmoylan-pi> some very smart person went around and bought all the vinyl making gear a few years back...
<ali1234> i can't believe that... there's too much of it
<zmoylan-pi> there was, but a lot was junked as it was /useless/
<ali1234> loads of studios still have the ability to cut dub plates
<ali1234> it's not like one guy has a monopoly ;)
<zmoylan-pi> small runs seem ok but for large runs you need more industrial equipment aiui
<zmoylan-pi> we might just have to wait for 3d printers to have a high res... :-)
<ali1234> now that is definitely a way off
<zmoylan-pi> i'd have agreed 2-3 years ago.  but a lot of smart people are pushing the envelope for lots of different reasons
<ali1234> the very best 3d printers are still two orders of magnitude away from being good enough to do that
<zmoylan-pi> those using them for medical applications are motivated to go super high res.
<ali1234> haha someone tried it: http://www.amandaghassaei.com/projects/3D_printed_record/
<ali1234> that's actually surprisingly good
<zmoylan-pi> it'll be the ip by pigeons for 3d printers.  as the tech improves someone will keep trying :-)
<zmoylan-pi> clarkes first law :-) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clarke%27s_three_laws
<ali1234> done on a stratasys printer
<zmoylan-pi> a very non standard piece of kit i'm guessing
<ali1234> extremely expensive high end gear, nothing at all like a typical rep rap thing
<zmoylan-pi> which is why i think the medical 3d printing folk will be the first to approach the res required
<zmoylan-pi> of course it could also be the i want to modify my phone to make a 3d printed phone case that clips an extra battery to the back of my smartphone that can't make it through one single day... :-)
<ali1234> of course if i was going back in time i would be really tempted to troll people too
<zmoylan-pi> of course... :-) and in the future everyone uses macs... :-P
<zmoylan-pi> donald trump running for president would probably get you laughed out of the room...
<ali1234> maybe not. he was much less of a joke in the 80s
<ali1234> just another rich business man
<ali1234> and they had an actor for president then
<ali1234> you'd probably get more of a reaction telling them a black man was president
<zmoylan-pi> true
<ali1234> even in back to the future he only got to be mayor
<ali1234> but no i'd do stupid stuff like tell them youtube poops are the most popular form of entertainment in 2016
<ali1234> then show them "over 9000"
<zmoylan-pi> you could show them a typical youtube page of comments...
#ubuntu-uk 2016-07-29
<mapps> hi
<MooDoo> howdy all
<knightwise> Good morning peeps :)
<MooDoo> morning
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<JamesTait> Good morning all!  Happy Friday, and happy System Administrator Appreciation Day! ð
<SuperMatt> oh that's today?
<SuperMatt> No one has praised me at all :(
<JamesTait> Me neither.
<JamesTait> But I bet if I unplug the internet, they'll all come running.
<SuperMatt> do it
<JamesTait> +++ CARRIER LOST
<brobostigon> anyone running aorund like a headless chicken yt?
 * popey glares at cyanogenmod
<knightwise> oh my https://youtu.be/sg0D1PpgCXs
<brobostigon> meep :)
<brobostigon> sorry.
<MooDoo> :)
 * popey pokes waggott14 with a stick
<SuperMatt> is that a new type of pokemon?
<daftykins> temp ban perhaps for sanity?
<DJones> Right
<DJones> Been settled for the last 10 minutes, if it keeps on, I'll ban forward to #fixyourconnection, daftykins Give me a shout if you see it continuing
<daftykins> DJones: will do, though i'll likely be out for the afternoon shortly :)
<popey> well, there's your answer DJones ^
<DJones> Cheers, I;m going walking the dog in the woods in the next few minutes
<DJones> Hopfully that should sort it
<daftykins> hehe, that's the default message isn't it? XD
<DJones> Fingers crossed, dog walking time, if they ask anywhere, as long as the connection is stable, please remove the ban
<DJones> Yep it is
<DJones> I have a dog staring at me, so not much time to change the mesage
<daftykins> *nod* was just thinking the guy might get grumpy
<DJones> Yeah, sent them a pm to explain what happened
<diddledan> https://techcrunch.com/2016/07/26/a-hack-by-any-other-name/
 * knightwise soooo wants to go home
<diddledan> netplan (or nplan as the package is gonna be called) sounds interesting
<popey> wossat?
<diddledan> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/foundations-y-network-yaml
<diddledan> it was announced on ubuntu-devel earlier : https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2016-July/039464.html
 * DJones debates whether to try antine as a twitter client, but had doubts since it isn't even in a ppa, github download
<DJones> anatine
<popey> yeah, i looked at making a snap of it
<DJones> Certainly looks interesting, Ubuntu is missing a decent twitter app at the moment since polly became unsupported
<diddledan> DJones: I've been using corebird
<DJones> Best I've found since then is corebird, but that doesn't auto update
<DJones> diddledan: Have you found anyway to get it to auto update for new messages, without having to click the home button?
<diddledan> I've not had any problem with it updating - it doesn't scroll to top by default though unless you go into the settings and toggle the autoscroll option
<DJones> Hmmh, I'll look for that
<DJones> Can't even find any options for setting
<popey> i use tweetdeck in a browser window on its own
<popey> like a webapp
<diddledan> what can I buy from ebay for at least Â£30?
<diddledan> (nectar are offering 10x points if I make a purchase before sunday)
<popey> you could buy this for me http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/RARE-DIGITAL-Model-VT100-AA-COMES-WITH-SELAMAR-GRAPHIC-CARDS-POWERS-ON-/181667429713
<diddledan> lol
<popey> out of your price range?
<popey> okay, how about this http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Various-Artists-Lost-In-Transmission-Chichester-Hospital-Radio-CD-2015-New-/361621986724
<daftykins> just had to dodge a quadbike walking down my *pedestrian only* lane home, wat
<daftykins> guy was taking the lazy route to his insurer that's 2 doors up from me...
<diddledan> sorted an RMA for my RAMs
<diddledan> being picked-up on mudnay
<diddledan> I guess I'll have to be without beast for a couple days until I get replacement modules :-(
<daftykins> did you pin it down to one module in the end?
<daftykins> i just posted the 7 year old stuff to the Netherlands just now :)
<diddledan> \o/
<daftykins> Â£2.84!
<diddledan> they didn't quibble at all over the return. I guess I described it well-enough that it was obvious there's one wonky module
<daftykins> what brand is it?
<diddledan> I think they probably argue less when you ask for a direct replacement, too
<diddledan> crucial ballistix
<daftykins> ah i do like crucial stuff, they even give freepost labels eh?
<diddledan> it's going back to ebuyer 'cos that's where I bought it from
<daftykins> oic
<diddledan> they're organising the shipping collection
<daftykins> ah they can't do that over here because couriers :(
<diddledan> it's gonna be yodel >.<
<daftykins> often folks would promise, but nobody would come ;) i think they get stuck at that wet bit south of Southampton...
<daftykins> or south of Land's End
<diddledan> ssshh, don't tell anyone but I've been doing c# again: https://github.com/DEVSENSE/Phalanger/pull/59
<daftykins> they call 'im the diddler... but occasionally the fixer, too...
 * popey stabs cm13
<daftykins> :o
<daftykins> what'd it do? :P
<popey> install cm13, add sd card to "internal storage" which encrypts the sd card
<popey> which is all fine
<popey> try and update cm13, it fails because it saves the zip then reboots to recovery, which can't see the encrypted sd card
<daftykins> oof.
<daftykins> though i think they refer to the device / being a good spot for that very reason
<popey> sadly their update tool doesnt save there
<daftykins> looks like folks are using workarounds by manually moving it, which isn't ideal!
<popey> indeed
<popey> and I can't even make the directory i need to move it to
<popey> looks like i need some root shennanigans
<popey> such a mess
<daftykins> does the SD card become *actual* /sdcard, or a folder beneath that?
<daftykins> https://www.reddit.com/r/cyanogenmod/comments/3yrsuk/updating_cm_with_sd_as_internal_storage/
<daftykins> https://forum.cyanogenmod.org/topic/120600-cannot-update-cm-13-after-mounting-sd-card-as-internal-storage/
<daftykins> dates aren't great but those folk speak of ways and means
<popey> yeah, i can't make /data/foo
<popey> need to become root somehow
 * popey fiddles
<daftykins> sorry, i didn't read in enough detail :(
<diddledan> popey: if only someone would put normal linux on one
<diddledan> s/one/a phone/
 * popey shakes fist at cloud
<daftykins> what are the benefits to SD card integration?
<diddledan> moar storage
<daftykins> nah but making it part of the internal and encrypting it, why those?
<diddledan> android doesn't like putting apps on the sd
<daftykins> yeah it's never a good move
<popey> the benefit is more space
<popey> basically
<diddledan> so to fix that bug they join the two togetehr
<popey> in older versions you can move apps to the sd card
<daftykins> is it because it's a low capacity device, like an 8GB?
<popey> but when you update in play store, they move back
<popey> 16GB
<daftykins> mm i came up against lots of apps that refused last time i played with that
<popey> yeah, I'd rather not have to keep moving them
<popey> hence switching to cm13 so I can just say "have at it" and give it the entire 64GB SD card
<popey> which works fine, no slowdown
<popey> just OTA is busted
<daftykins> *nod*
<popey> so I think what I'll do is manually get the zip from the website and push it over adb
<daftykins> you must install a lot of stuff!
<popey> when in recovery
<popey> not really
<popey> a few chunky games
<popey> i take a fair few photos and videos with it
<daftykins> ah did they not go onto the SD by default, before it was integrated?
<popey> you can choose to put them on sd, sure
 * diddledan blows chunks
<popey> but the thing still got full
<diddledan> what does that phrase mean "blow chunks"?
<daftykins> wat
<daftykins> something a product does because it's inferior, in my experience
<popey> hence why I moved stuff to sd card
<popey> diddledan: puke
<diddledan> aah
<daftykins> (inferior due to bad design / what have you)
<popey> Â¯\_(ã)_/Â¯
<daftykins> my friends wife brought me her HTC One M8 today that wasn't charging or doing anything for her over in England, they tried a few chargers... took it to a local shop and got told there was nothing to be done (it's a sealed battery type model)
<daftykins> anyway hands it to me, i pop it on a 2A tablet charger i have here, light came on - then a couple of minutes passed and the very low battery sign came up - charged all fine XD
<daftykins> she now thinks i have a special touch
<daftykins> i think it just sensed the room has been where many a thing gets cracked open with no mercy
<popey> we used to get a lot of nexus 4's in that state when first developing ubuntu touch on it
<popey> the standard advice was "plug it into a decent charger and leave it alone for hours"
<popey> eventually they'd all wake up
<diddledan> I remember that issue hitting the mailing list often
<daftykins> ah yeah, cheaply sold?
<popey> yeah
<popey> no, just drained below zero
<popey> and we had no alert or system for shutting down
<daftykins> i mean for you to get them, though
<popey> so it would drain to nothing
<diddledan> I think the galaxy nexus had the same problem
<popey> oh, no, we bought them new
<daftykins> oic
<popey> back when nexus 4 was the thing
<diddledan> 3-generations ago
<popey> time flies like a brick doesn't
<diddledan> 4 when the next ones drop in a month or so
<daftykins> still got mine here, been abandoned by Google but still holds 2G service in my granite house better than my Nexus 5 does :|
<daftykins> just don't fancy using it anymore since it's insecure really
<popey> whooo, installed a terminal and got root
<daftykins> :)
<diddledan> flying brick: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LruyfJJT7qY
<diddledan> saw that movie in the cinema
<diddledan> loved it
<diddledan> popey: is there a gif of "got root"?
<diddledan> https://cdn.meme.am/instances/400x/54088016.jpg
<daftykins> diddledan: nah this is a flying brick - (volume check) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZD4MaFHsK_w
<popey> http://i.imgur.com/yLNLvz6.png \o/
<diddledan> daftykins: was it really necessary for that uploader to loop the thing for 5 and a half minutes?!
<daftykins> he tells me he just combined the two and then got all those views which he's not allowed to monetise :( so i'd go with... yes
<diddledan> two?
<diddledan> there's only one video there. looped. many many many times.
<daftykins> yes, video with audio
<daftykins> not sure which portion he means belongs to someone, maybe both!
<daftykins> hehe my PhD Physics mate just got the job after his interview in Tokyo, he messaged me "spec me a beast (PC), i've got a job!"
<diddledan> :-p
<diddledan> beast, eh
<daftykins> mmm
<daftykins> guy always lives on the bread line so i wish he'd at least get one pay packet before splurging XD
<popey> \o/ updateificated
<popey> right, time for beer
<popey> o/
<daftykins> enjoy o/
<diddledan> did you pontificate?
<daftykins> yay by chance tonnes of friends that moved away are on the island this weekend \o/
<daftykins> hmm that dud RAM was from that blown cap motherboard, perhaps it's not as dead as i thought...
<zmoylan-pi> zombies, every one panic!! \o/
 * daftykins keeps a weapon handy, just in case
<diddledan> daftykins: the ram that you've got an RMA for?
<diddledan> or different one?
<daftykins> RAM i posted off today came from the mobo with blown caps, yep
<daftykins> it would stop POST after a power cut, weirdly... yet could be made to work and kicked into life
<zmoylan-pi> intermittent computers are never to be trusted
<daftykins> http://imgur.com/a/r1ouC
<daftykins> well yes sir, that is a given, but when they're only intermittent due to previously undiagnosed faults - they can rise again!
<zmoylan-pi> oh, i have used a purloined virus infected then cleaned obsolete junker as an email server for 4 years but it was beside my desk so i was on hand in the event it was ever to fail...
<zmoylan-pi> or a computer that only i could make boot as a novell file server for about the same amount of time.
<daftykins> :>
<zmoylan-pi> but as it was a novell server it only needed restarting after power cuts so once a year at most
<daftykins> i had actually discounted a different board with no cap issues with that wonky RAM in, so that one might be alright again, though it didn't POST with DDR3 in... only DDR2.
<daftykins> (it has both, it's a rare board)
<daftykins> well i'll be, blown cap board POSTs first time with different RAM
<daftykins> that 6 minute memtest!
<diddledan> apparently someone managed to craft an exploit for the pornhub website
<diddledan> obviously I'm not going to mention a clickable link for said site. because, you know.. SFW
<daftykins> and of course you don't know the TLD, never been
<diddledan> well that's true, too
 * zmoylan-pi almost wishes i was still working tech support to see who's pc is dragged in infected from this vulnerability...
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> I get new internets on mudnay
<diddledan> what's the betting openreach screw it up?
<zmoylan-pi> been delivered by a man in a bucket at 6am every morning...
<daftykins> diddledan: what's the change?
<zmoylan-pi> a bigger bucket...
<diddledan> moving to aaisp
<daftykins> ooh
<daftykins> weird caps
<diddledan> gotta love these: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bbpztC6GHqw
<daftykins> toilet... in a letterbox... THAT WAS MY HOUSE!
<daftykins> oh it's a Blue Peter parody!
 * daftykins wakes up
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7mVvRluNJpM
<diddledan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TtF5L9bKfO8
<diddledan> and of course https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5Y-0C0p_9s
<daftykins> i now know, that this was wrong
<danielthebague>  Hi looking to do an upgarde to 16.04.1 LTS and the installer states i have low disk space. i ran apt-get clean, apt-get autoclean, apt-get autoremove and also used ubuntu tweak tool to remove old kernels. also installed and ran bleachbit (as root) to clear old log files, emptied trash too and still i have a low disk space warning. is there a work around can i remove anything else or would a backup and new insta
<danielthebague> llation be more appropriate in my circumstances?
<daftykins> show me "dpkg -l | grep linux- | nc termbin.com 9999"
<daftykins> also "df -i | nc termbin.com 9999"
<daftykins> can only imagine that guy has me on ignore
<zmoylan-pi> or is new to irc...
<daftykins> oh here we go, PM reply now
<diddledan> ignore it
<daftykins> hmm?
<diddledan> the pm
<daftykins> why
<diddledan> because it's rude to pm people without asking
<zmoylan-pi> ^this
<daftykins> when you're offering them help? don't be ridiculous
<daftykins> anyway, person said they were going to just clean install - quitters!
<daftykins> honestly i'm blown away you'd even say that
<zmoylan-pi> i discourage pming as most of the time it is been done by people who are doing it wrong or are trolling
<diddledan> people who have a prior relationship are ok to pm, but going into a chatroom you've never been to before and pming the first person to reply is bad netiquette
<zmoylan-pi> and encouraging bad manners doesn't help the community when more people are /rude/
<daftykins> no no, when the guy left the channel, i PM'd *them* because it was as though the advice was missed
<zmoylan-pi> ah, fair enough
<daftykins> yeah if they PM i bite them on the nose... hard...
<diddledan> oic. I figured he came here, asked for help, saw you reply, left the room and pm'd you randomly
<daftykins> mmm makes sense to me now!
<diddledan> mmm, cookies
<daftykins> mmmmm
<diddledan> not muh cookies!
<daftykins> mmk i gave this other motherboard another try but nope, it's still properly unreliable
<zmoylan-pi> just i've seen people wander into irc rooms and then pm anyone who looks active
<diddledan> http://buffy.wikia.com/wiki/M'Fashnik_Demon
<daftykins> so the popped cap one is the best so far, it could probably live again if they were replaced
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi: me too
<daftykins> yeah, my mistake - i think i was a bit too in my own head thinking "i know i PM'd first..." when i said he replied
<zmoylan-pi> i saw an interesting blog entry a while back of an engineer sick of wifi ap dying every year or so who removed all the capacitors on a new one and replaced them with good quality ones and the device was going years later
 * diddledan pets daftykins
 * zmoylan-pi pushes the chocolate hobnobs daftykins way
 * daftykins is petted
<daftykins> d'aww thanks guys!
<diddledan> mmm nobnobs!
<daftykins> those are totally a fave of mine
<diddledan> ditto
<zmoylan-pi> can't go wrong with hobnobs. lowest common denominator of a good biccie
 * daftykins mentally labels this mobo 'definitely dead'
<zmoylan-pi> i used postage labels and wrote on them with a sharpie to mark hardware.  stick it to underside. and date it
<daftykins> that sounds good
<daftykins> i definitely always write on the HDDs labels for bad sector ones
<diddledan> even easier is to break the board in-two
<diddledan> broken board = broken board
<daftykins> too much fallout for my little 4 pawed lass to deal with :)
<diddledan> makes it obvious then
<daftykins> and future dafty to clean up!
<diddledan> aww, she koot
<zmoylan-pi> and if you want the postage label to be easily removeable, stick it to your sleeve 2-3 times as that adds fluff/lint to make it less sticky
<daftykins> still, i've got three working
<daftykins> that's pretty ace
#ubuntu-uk 2016-07-30
<daftykins> two quad cores with 8GB RAM, could be good to get some console only pals into PC gaming if we ever switch!
<diddledan> time for me to jump in the hay. hit the sack. that kinda thing
<daftykins> no biting its' nose!
<diddledan> quite hard
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> nn sir \o
<diddledan> nn
<daftykins> and then there were two
<daftykins> zmoylan-pi: i'll race your Pi with my Pi!
<daftykins> ;D
<zmoylan-pi> mine is ancient pi-b
<diddledan> hint: arsenic reduces the population well
<daftykins> * arsenip
<zmoylan-pi> sleep well diddledan
<diddledan> and then it'll be a case of https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FA5jsa1lR9c
<diddledan> I really think that song is sick with the line "gonna make love to your baby". wtf?!
<SebthreeBQM10HD> hi
<mapps> hi
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<DJones> popey: I mentioned that Anatine twitter client the other day, been trying it out today and I'm impressed, I'd put it the top of the list for standalone twitter clients on Ubuntu
<diddledan> DJones: it looks like it's mostly just a wrapper around twitter.com
<DJones> Yeah thats how I understand it as well, but seems better than most
<DJones> diddledan: http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2016/07/anatine-desktop-twitter-app-electron
<DJones> Despite looking every inch the desktop app Anatine is â donât groan â an Electron-based wrapper around the mobile Twitter website.
<webpigeon> anyone know why all of the apt-get surgestions now only read apt: "ie. Use 'sudo apt autoremove' to remove them."?
<mapps> hi
<webpigeon> hi o/
<SuperEngineer> Last night I upgraded 14.04 to 16.04 - easiest & non-hassle of all the Ubuntu upgrades so far.  Very pleased, congrats to all involved - and double thanks to all the bug hunters from 16.04 allowing 16.04.1
<SuperEngineer> only "problems" encountered - old printer driver said incorrect configuration" and would'nt allow printing.  So I readded the printer, off the system went to find me an updaated driver, down;oaded, installed, printing working agsin... s'imples. Thank you all.
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: Out of curiosity what was the printer?
<SuperEngineer> [even had an unexpected "resiliance test" when 1 hout after upgrade completed and I was using the system... total area wide instant power cut!  - restarted system this morning.... perfek!  ;-)
<SuperEngineer> penguin42: printer was/is Epson XP 412
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: Was that an Ubuntu standard driver or one that was installed from an Epson site/disk?
<SuperEngineer> Ubuntu found the driver at Epdson.. told me it was proprietory and gave me the choice to install or not to install.  One day I'll get me a printer with open [as in FOSS] driver!
<SuperEngineer> *Epson
<penguin42> ah ok
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: It's actually getting harder; latest Samsung wouldn't work with the open driver
<SuperEngineer> that's bad news
<SuperEngineer> And, things get better... at long last psensor now shows me hard disk temps... could previously only get these from disk utilty or command line.
<SuperEngineer> both hard disks now displaying temperature in psensor :-)
<SuperEngineer> [could never get it to do that before on my AMd dpu'd sys]
<SuperEngineer> *cpu
<SuperEngineer> Letter to powe company? "Dear power company, if you ever do that again - I'll 'av the lot of ya!!!]"   phew, that was too close to the upgrading itself.
<penguin42> yeh that would be more interesting to recover from
<SuperEngineer> penguin42: you have a wicked sense of humour
<penguin42> oh yes, I'm truly evil
<SuperEngineer> :-D
#ubuntu-uk 2016-07-31
<mapps> hi
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<Azelphur> Question, has anyone here used the BT OpenReach fiber modems connected directly to a PC?
<Azelphur> I am wanting to bypass my router to diagnose a fault
<penguin42> they run PPPoE don't they - never dealt with them
<Azelphur> penguin42: yea they do
<MartijnVdS> install a PPPoE client on the PC and that should then work
 * penguin42 assumes NM can do that
<diddledan> Azelphur: I've done it with pfsense
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS / diddledan having some luck, I have installed pppd, copied the pppd config from my router to the PC, dialed and got a ppp0 interface with the right IP address
<Azelphur> buuuut, no internet connectivity. Ideas?
<diddledan> do you have a default route assigned by pppd? (route -n)
<Azelphur> diddledan, route -n reports a single row with iface ppp0
<diddledan> ok it's not put-in your ISP's gateway then I guess
<Azelphur> although it has a gateway of 0.0.0.0, that doesn't sound right
<Azelphur> hehe
<Azelphur> well hmm, how does one fix that?
<diddledan> your ppp config needs the flag "defaultroute"
<Azelphur> diddledan, thanks, you're awesome :)
<Azelphur> now I can see if my SSH issues persist with no router involved \o/
<diddledan> \o/
<Azelphur> I been debugging this ssh issue for MONTHS, I shit you not
<Azelphur> been right down the rabbit hole, basically, after a while, all my ssh sessions (inc rsync and stuff) die after a while, according to some digging I did with an openssh developer, my packets are being modified somewhere, and the server is receiving a corrupt packet, and thus terminating the connection
<Azelphur> hence removing the router from the equasion
<diddledan> odd
<diddledan> very very odd
<diddledan> did he say what was being altered about your packets or leave that as an exercise for you to discern?
<diddledan> see TCP can fragment packets for example but that shouldn't break anything
<diddledan> it sounds intermittent and so it's gonna be a pain to decide whether you have truly eliminated something from the equation
<Azelphur> diddledan, left it for me, although I do have the SSH loks
<Azelphur> logs*
<Azelphur> diddledan, well, I've never had a rsync work for more than 20 minutes
<penguin42> Azelphur: Have you tried adding a ServerAliveInterval to your ssh config?
<Azelphur> so basically, if my connection doesn't drop within the hour, it's the router.
<Azelphur> yes
<penguin42> hmm
<Azelphur> and ClientAliveInterval, both at various values, and I've tried rsyncd (works fine)
<Azelphur> and I've tried different client and server hardware and OSes
<diddledan> it might be your ISP
<diddledan> and you've already thought of your router. what else hasn't been eliminated....? I can't think of anything else
<diddledan> maybe your NIC
<Azelphur> can't be NIC - tried different hardware
<Azelphur> (on both ends)
<diddledan> kk
<Azelphur> yea, really eliminates it to router or ISP
<diddledan> or potentially the last mile
<diddledan> something wonky with your line
<Azelphur> indeed
<Azelphur> I'm hoping it's the router
<Azelphur> or possibly a dodgy switch
<diddledan> if you can get a duplicate openreach modem thingy you can eliminate that as well
<diddledan> I haven't looked to see how expensive they are though
<daftykins> o0
<daftykins> i've got one of the openreach VDSL transceivers with modified firmware, don't use it but played around a bit - was Â£8 off ebay a bit ago :D
<penguin42> what's modified about it?
<diddledan> rooted I guess
<daftykins> the alternative firmware gives you better stats, also lets the thing use one of its' two ports for NAT so you can have it act as a wired only router instead of just a dumb modem
<daftykins> it's the Huawei original vs. the BT branded and simplified, i think
<daftykins> Azelphur: very anecdotal but i had an issue a while back where my connection would drop a couple of packets for *anything* for a couple of seconds every half hour or hour, or similar - i could spot it easiest with an internet radio stream + a tonne of pings running from my file server
<daftykins> interestingly dropping the term 'packet loss' had me transferred off 1st line telco support to someone else, so eventually traced it to a faulty line card in the exchange
<daftykins> i had pings running to google, the first hop in the data centre of my ISP that replied and the router - it showed the first two dropping a couple of packets but the last being fine
<SebthreeBQM10HD> hi
<SebthreeBQM10HD> anyone about?
<m0nkey_> Science has gone too far! https://i.imgur.com/w8hNyPx.jpg
<daftykins> m0nkey_: :>
#ubuntu-uk 2017-07-24
<Shand_>  /server irc.ircstorm.net
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<knightwise> morning peepz
<knightwise> morning peepz
<MooDoo> howdy all
<knightwise> hey MooDoo
<MooDoo> :)
<MooDoo> bloomin reboots
<zmoylan-pi> if you can't reboot on a monday, when can you reboot? :-)
<MooDoo> zmoylan-pi: it was my laptop and I didn't really want to reboot, but I changed fstab and am to impatient to wait :)
<knightwise> hey zmoylan-pi
<knightwise> how you doing dude
<zmoylan-pi> it's a monday, waiting in my bunker till it had passed...
<knightwise> it ... being 'the week ?
<zmoylan-pi> monday morning... it's the worst...
<knightwise> True that
<knightwise> Working remotely on my imac running ubuntu
<knightwise> Teamviewer is awesome
<zmoylan-pi> shiny
<knightwise> gotta say , this mac is running pretty smoothly
<knightwise> opera is pretty fast , cli apps fly and the whole thing looks great
<zmoylan-pi> haven't used opera on desktop since version 12 currently using vivaldi
<knightwise> zmoylan-pi: how is that working out ?
<zmoylan-pi> the only missing feature atm is sync of bookmarks... but that's coming 'real soon'
<knightwise> so .. what makes that browser so special ?
<MooDoo> howdy
<zmoylan-pi> 1) it's not chrome 2) it's a reboot of opera from the guy who started opera
<knightwise> aha , that sounds interesting
<zmoylan-pi> the only bad thing about it is that it uses chrome extensions so you're limited to those that google allows into their extension store
<knightwise> zmoylan-pi: still , not bad though
<zmoylan-pi> the only reason i still have firefox installed is for extensions and that's going away in a few months
<MooDoo> i think i have FF installed, not sure why though lol
<zmoylan-pi> back from when it was small and useful? :-)
<MooDoo> scratch that, just purged it :)
<knightwise> FF is bloated
<knightwise> Opera is pretty slick, dark theme , night mode , moving backgrounds , sync .. the works
<knightwise> hey steve-stf
<diddledan> in, out, in, out, shake them all about
<MooDoo> do the hokey cokey lol
<diddledan> and you turn around
<MooDoo> yeah mate, that's what it's all about
<diddledan> I wonder why the American version is "The Hokey Pokey"?
<MooDoo> something to do with ice cream
<MooDoo> is it time to go home yet?
<Laney> yep
<Laney> and you can have the rest of the week off too
<MooDoo> Laney: thanks boss
<zmoylan-pi> sweden has had a teeny weeny data breach... https://thehackernews.com/2017/07/sweden-data-breach.html?m=1
<diddledan> oops
 * diddledan snorts
<diddledan> oh wow, SAPO and the SAS-equiv are doxed too
<diddledan> oh boy that is crazy. it's worse the more I read
<zmoylan-pi> everyone can just fill out a form, change their name and careers, move to a new location... :-P
#ubuntu-uk 2017-07-25
<diddledan> time for bed
<zmoylan-pi> quitter... :-P
<MooDoo> howdy all
<knightwise> hey MooDoo
<knightwise> how are you dude
<MooDoo> knightwise: yeah not bad, bit tired, early morning start, but ok :)
<MooDoo> knightwise: yourself?
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<knightwise> hey brobostigon , how are you doing man
<brobostigon> not bad, and you?
<MooDoo> howdy brobostigon
<knightwise> doing ok , mornin MooDoo
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo
<brobostigon> knightwise: :)
<diddledan> why would you even need an internet connected tap?! https://twitter.com/john_lam/status/889837167320727552
<zmoylan-pi> in a short story i read in the near future people use home super computers which connect to kitchen tap for cooling...
<zmoylan-pi> if you heard of temps dropping you could run taps for a minute every hour or two to prevent burst pipes...
<TwistedLucidity> Or, like any sensible person, set the heating to prevent freezing.
<zmoylan-pi> pipes been underground that might not help
<diddledan> freezing pipes aren't a problem. thawing pipes, however... :-p
<diddledan> it must be difficult to operate a hotel and related businesses when the world's hackers are all present: https://boingboing.net/2017/07/25/attachments-are-somehow-ok.html
<diddledan> I sometimes wonder how many attendees go there to test their own opsec to see if they can manage to not get pwned
<diddledan> adobe have announced that we must endure flash for another three more years: https://blogs.adobe.com/conversations/2017/07/adobe-flash-update.html
<zmoylan-pi> think of flash as brexit lite... :-P
<DJones> I think its sad that flash is finally being dropped is because Apple wouldn't approve it for ios (assuming what I've read is true), seems like changing one devil for another
<zmoylan-pi> flash put the nails into their own coffin as the security holes and patches required to fix them made for too many downloads
<brobostigon> its good they are killing it off, flash is a massive pain in the backside and the biggest resource hog i can think of.
#ubuntu-uk 2017-07-26
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<knightwise> hey brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning knightwise
<knightwise> how are you man
<MooDoo> morning all
<knightwise> hey MooDoo
<knightwise> hows it goin gdude
<MooDoo> knightwise: yeah ok thanks, day of meetings *yawn* lol
<MooDoo> you?
<brobostigon> knightwise: not bad, and you?
<knightwise> Writing up procedures .. slow day at the client so finally some time to get some things in order
<knightwise> And tinkering with my low budget lenovo laptop
<brobostigon> :)
<MooDoo> My dell is playing up, it's either fast one day or slow the other, think the SSD is on it's way out, getting a new one friday
<brobostigon> i should get a new battery for mine, its down to 48% capacity.
<MooDoo> brobostigon: it's wierd, one day the system is as fast as i'd expext, next it'll run like I've just eaten a sunday lunch with 10 puddings.
<brobostigon> very odd.
<MooDoo> brobostigon: yeah the ssd has dropped to 99% reliability, looking at a samsung evo
<knightwise> I have one of those . Its a great SSD
<brobostigon> not looked at a samsung laptop before, wouldnt have a clue if they are any good.
<knightwise> brobostigon: been using the evo's for a while now. pretty spÃ®ffy disks foer a good procepoint
<knightwise> srr , remote keyboard not responding very fast
<MooDoo> knightwise: good to hear, I might pick one up at the weekend then :D
<TwistedLucidity> Samsung EVOs are good (I have an older one) but there was that wobble with the firmware (which, in fairness to them, they addressed).
<TwistedLucidity> If the budget stretches, consider one of the Pro models.
<knightwise> Got one in the machine i am working on at the moment
<BigRedS> I've had a surprise offer of training in/on LXC; who's good for courses on that? Ideally with a bit of ansible chucked in :)
<MooDoo> BigRedS: something you use in your job?
<BigRedS> yeah, in that I read StackOverflow a lot and swear at LXC sometimes
<BigRedS> I've got a bunch of hosts running containers and it's sort-of fine, but it'd be great to be shown tips and tools for it, and get an idea of best-practice here
<MooDoo> nice :)
<brobostigon> knightwise: :)
<knightwise> got this low budget 17 inch IBM laptop for a bargain
<knightwise> Lenovo B71-80
<knightwise> popped the ssd in there and it works fine
<knightwise> ideal linux machine to tinker with
<brobostigon> :)
<nucc1> i wonder why ubuntu ships by default with a UK mirror for apt...
<nucc1> i mean US mirror
<diddledan> you were right first time. archive.ubuntu.com is a uk mirror
<diddledan> ubiquity installer will customise the sources.list after install to be a mirror near the location you chose in the timezone
<ali1234> doesn't archive.ubuntu.com autoredirect?
#ubuntu-uk 2017-07-27
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<MooDoo> morning all
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo
<MooDoo> how are you brobostigon
<brobostigon> not bad, and you?
<MooDoo> yeah ok now, had a bad head last night, slept from 5:30pm till this morning :S
<brobostigon> :(
<knightwise> hey MooDoo , brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning knightwise
<knightwise> Re watched Ghost in the shell last night
<knightwise> the original cartoon
<knightwise> now I found this on youtube, perfect background music to work with. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aylxPWZOsDo&t=0s
<MooDoo> knightwise: i watched the movie [not the cartoon] the other day :)
<knightwise> MooDoo: any good ?
<MooDoo> knightwise: i liked it, shame i saw all the moany comments about scarlett johanson not being oriental before i watched the film, made no difference to me
<knightwise> In the original the main character isn't realy oriental either
<knightwise> the main antagonist is a legless armless naked blond eurobimbo
<MooDoo> i know, just a shame so many people moaned, it's a bloomin film lol
<knightwise> there is also a lot of hubbut about the new star trek discovery captain not being american enough
<knightwise> brb
<knightwise> Funny , youtube-DL works better on my PC then on  my linux machine.
<knightwise> the version in the repository is too old and i can"t update it
<knightwise> so i downloaded the version of the web and that works
<knightwise> on my windows pc
<zmoylan-pi> the versions in most repositories is ancient... you have to make sure it's the latest version i think
<MooDoo> well at least it's nearly the weekend :D
 * zmoylan-pi notes MooDoo's happiness and inserts thursday2 into the calander to crush their spirit
<MooDoo> pah!
<zmoylan-pi> adds extra meetings with power point presentations to MooDoo's personal calender for thursday2... without donuts...
<zmoylan-pi> and dials the wifi speed back to pre broadband speeds...
<MooDoo> zmoylan-pi: i have sky broadband, 9600baud would be a dream compared to that
 * zmoylan-pi dusts off my 300baud setting and clicks extra flakiness option
<MooDoo> lol
<zmoylan-pi> still better than you're used to... :-P
<diddledan> I just swapped the fans in my network switch. much silent now
<diddledan> bohemian rhapsody never sound so good? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nHkuQdnG_oE
<zmoylan-pi> freddie mercury is said to have said do what you want his music to the band before he died as long as it's not boring... we may have a violation here... :-P
<zmoylan-pi> it's missing even the charm and wit of shatners lucy in the sky with diamonds...
<diddledan> wat.. https://www.loveflutter.com/blue
<diddledan> billed as safe celebrity dating
<zmoylan-pi> and miss out dating twitter trolls.... weres the fun in that?!
<diddledan> I'm trying to use firefox more
<diddledan> lol @ https://twitter.com/lcamtuf/status/890636911236104192
<zmoylan-pi> so you can be super angry when all the good extensions stop working? :-)
<diddledan> seagulls
<diddledan> I guess it's "Amazingstoke on sea" now
<zmoylan-pi> or some nasty weather heading your way...
<diddledan> defcon is nuts! https://twitter.com/kl34n/status/890654917257330688
<daftykins> aaaah
<daftykins> back from Sark today - http://i.imgur.com/Ouvr9kl.jpg
<daftykins> that's the island of Brecqhou where the Barclay brothers built a castle
<zmoylan-pi> so... did you bring a stick of rock for everyone in the channel? :-)
<diddledan> new keyboards: http://blogs.windows.com/devices/2017/07/27/introducing-new-microsoft-keyboard-brings-windows-hello-windows-10-pc/
<daftykins> Guernsey is the flat thing in the distance
<daftykins> zmoylan-pi: i'm not sure they even have such things anymore!
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi: why are people in the channel?! they'll get wet!
<daftykins> the best i saw was a wooden duck called Felix with 'dcuk' written on it
<zmoylan-pi> no... sticks... of... rock... ::has to sit down from whooziness::
<diddledan> daftykins: a lot of places in the UK still do sticks of rock
<zmoylan-pi> yeah, bray near me does them last time i checked... and a lot of sourvineer stores have 'ireland' ones nearby
<daftykins> yeah Sark's tourism has taken a bit of a hit since the Barclay brothers are tossers, though
<daftykins> they were trying to muscle in on Sark's government, when they didn't get their way they closed every hotel they own there
<zmoylan-pi> space for new hotels then...
<diddledan> is it sark that still has feudal governance?
<daftykins> yep that's the one
<daftykins> heh nah it's only a few square miles
<daftykins> only 600 permanent population over winter
<daftykins> in other news, egg moulds are fun - http://i.imgur.com/OTcpu7P.jpg
<zmoylan-pi> hello high cholestrol
<daftykins> never met the guy
<diddledan> https://i.imgur.com/c7uURDj.jpg
<daftykins> lmao
<daftykins> that's creepy
<zmoylan-pi> something to cheery you up in the mornings
<daftykins> this guy appears to be IRCing from a FreePBX box
<daftykins> or other asterisk base
<diddledan> the name makes sense then. waggott
<diddledan> :-p
 * diddledan will punish himself later
<daftykins> i feel like we need to come and verify these self punishments
<daftykins> with all the talk in the tech news, i assume Def Con approacheth... looking forward to some fun?
 * zmoylan-pi hands daftykins a horse shaped usb drive he just dropped...
<zmoylan-pi> it's just got midi files on it... beware of geeks bearing riffs...
<daftykins> oof
<daftykins> you've been saving that one, haven't you? :)
<zmoylan-pi> no, just made it up...
<zmoylan-pi> the alternate would be beware of geeks bearing grifts but you'd probably have to have seen the sting to know what a grift is
<daftykins> i might need you to perform an exorcism on me, i was gifted an iPhone and fixed it, today
 * zmoylan-pi hands you my holy hammer...
<zmoylan-pi> i picked up a samsung j3 phone today at tescos who are offloading them
<daftykins> oh really? how cheap?
<zmoylan-pi> â¬130
<zmoylan-pi> retailing for â¬180 elsewhere
<daftykins> funkeh
<zmoylan-pi> i just want a cheap device that can handle a greater than 32gb card and the j3 does that
<zmoylan-pi> so they're emptying their stock to replace with the back to school shiny... that will do me
<daftykins> mmm reminds me, best get on selling this cheap laptop i have soon to get in on that back to school crowd
<zmoylan-pi> some of sticker on the lid.  'school sucks'
<diddledan> makemkv commandline works in a snap package!
<daftykins> it's a SNAP!
<diddledan> no more worrying about nefarious code!
<diddledan> closed sauce sucks
<daftykins> isn't the argument against snap that it bundles all outdated libs you have to wait to be repackaged to be safe?
<diddledan> how do you play this? https://twitter.com/UrbanOutfitters/status/890687555317846017
<daftykins> and then you end up with some package with some weirdos name on it like 'dllewelyn' ;D
<zmoylan-pi> they play on normal record player
<diddledan> but it's not circulr!
<zmoylan-pi> still has circular groove
<zmoylan-pi> the player cares not about excess vinyl on edge
<daftykins> you can probably make records with those constant width shapes right?
<zmoylan-pi> you used to get floppy records on front of magazines too back in the day
<daftykins> ah no i'm being an idiot, that'd only have one groove
<zmoylan-pi> and in eastern europe people made their own records on x-rays from hospitals
<diddledan> we should use wood for LPs
<daftykins> for the finest sound
<diddledan> "why did that bit go quiet?" .. "aah, we had a spot of woodworm"
<zmoylan-pi> they are now making new equipment to make vinyl records as demand has risen high enough
<diddledan> nuts
<zmoylan-pi> my parents had a wind up gramaphone when i was a kid... great fun playing with it
<daftykins> dry roasted please
<zmoylan-pi> playing records with no electricity involved
<diddledan> and then you have idiots like: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/493608538/love-the-worlds-first-intelligent-turntable
<zmoylan-pi> a mate had a small vw beetle van that used batteries that drove around on record and played them following the groove of record laid on a surface
<zmoylan-pi> a pocket record player. wasn't a new idea in the 80s then either
<zmoylan-pi> i saw advert for a handbag sized one in the 50s... probably needed to be a russian shotputter but it was small enough
<ali1234> hmm wouldn't that scratch up the record?
<daftykins> :>
<daftykins> shotputting? definitely
<daftykins> sleep for me \o
<zmoylan-pi> the vw one? no tiny light, rubber wheeled car driving around
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<zmoylan-pi> i think my favourite was a 1930s era slot loading record player for cars. tunes on the go
 * zmoylan-pi moseys off for a shower...
<diddledan> moses?
<diddledan> won't the water part and you stay dry?
<diddledan> and then the egyptians get drowned
<diddledan> wtf? https://blogs.windows.com/msedgedev/2017/07/27/node-chakracore-update-n-api-ios/
<diddledan> nodejs ON AN IPHONE!
<zmoylan-pi> that will make apple happy
#ubuntu-uk 2017-07-28
<MooDoo> morning all
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<MooDoo> good moaning
<brobostigon> morning
<foobarry> so... how can i get a google play book onto kindle/kobo?
<zmoylan-pi> with great difficulty?
<zmoylan-pi> or has calibre got a way?
<diplo> I convert all books I buy from Amazon to remove drm, not tried from Google Play though
<diplo> https://github.com/apprenticeharper/DeDRM_tools
<diplo> I use that foobarry
<foobarry> looks like i need adobe digital editions and all that malarkey
<foobarry> really struggled the last time
<diplo> Ah right, I used Amazons Kindle software ( has to be an older version ) for my conversions
<foobarry> needed wine and activepython
<diplo> as my kindle isn't connected to wifi
<foobarry> wonder if i need a windows VM to make this easier
<foobarry> since i have a adobe digital editions acsm file
<diplo> Ah yes, I do this on my work PC for that reason
<zmoylan-pi> sounds like it might be less hassle to retype in the book.... :-)
<diddledan> I've finally seen Lez Miserable!
<diddledan> pretty awesome if you like that kind of thing (which I do :-p)
<foobarry> virtualbox hosed my PC. not even ctrl-alt-f1 worked
<diddledan> foobarry: quitter :-p
<foobarry> windows strikes again
<diddledan> in those instances I like the goto of ctrl+alt+sysrq R E I S U B
<foobarry> last time i touched it , it wiped linux on my laptop
<foobarry> during the anniversary update
<foobarry> the anniversay of not letting windows near your bare metal again
<diddledan> err ctrl+shift**
<diddledan> or is it ctrl+alt+shift
<diddledan> press all the things, you can't miss :-p
<zmoylan-pi> mash keyboard with one hand till a message pops up :-)
<diddledan> you Irish and your potatoes! do NOT put mash on your keyboard. it is a pain to remove.
<diddledan> seagulls about again
<zmoylan-pi> seagulls or... *dun* *dun* *dunnnnnn* omen pigeons....
<diddledan> it's either seagulls or those pigeons are damned good impersonators
<diddledan> haha: https://twitter.com/heyitsgarrett/status/890933701600727040
<foobarry> calibre UI makes me cry
<brainrangers> foobarry: its the buttons maan .. DAH BUTTONS
<brainrangers> they are Huuuuuuuuuuge
<foobarry> weirdly one book converts, and the other doesn't
<brainrangers> hmm. DRM ?
<foobarry> i just bought them at the same time
<foobarry> i added dedrm to calibre
<brainrangers> that IS odd
<zmoylan-pi> calibre ui is done that way to make you feel bad every time you use it to break drm on a book... :-P
<brainrangers> hahaa smittix
<brainrangers> zmoylan-pi:
<foobarry> Adobe introduced a new DRM scheme with ADE 3.0 and later. Install ADE 2.0.1 and register with the same Adobe ID. If you can't open your book in ADE 2.01, then you have a book with the new DRM scheme. These tools can't help. You can avoid the new DRM scheme by always downloading your ebooks with ADE 2.0.1. Some retailers will require ADE 3.0 or later, in which case you won't be able to download with ADE
<foobarry>  2.0.1.
<zmoylan-pi> i'm seeing more in favour of typing it in... :-P
<foobarry> yeah zmoylan-pi but its my book :(
<foobarry> and my eyes
<zmoylan-pi> you only rented it foobarry
<zmoylan-pi> they retained ownership
<brainrangers> Drm Sucks
<foobarry> i have android, kobo and kindle
<foobarry> and can't even read books i buy on them
<foobarry> no wonder people torrent
<zmoylan-pi> drm sucks and breaking it is unfortunately the right thing to do.  i usually buy a paper copy of book and then download an illegal file that i know will work everywhere
 * brainrangers hasnt read a paper book in YEARS
<diplo> foobarry: Same reason why I use an old version of Kindle books and stopped it auto updating
<diplo> If I can't break the DRM of something I've purchased I do the same thing zmoylan-pi
<zmoylan-pi> first ran into this when i bought a book on mobipocket on palm wayyyyy back.  never got around to reading the book.  then after replacing my palm with shinier new model i couldn't open it... never bought drm book since
<diddledan> which is more legal. ripping DRM off, or downloading a pirated copy (in both instances of a product you possess in physical form)
<foobarry> think i've cracked it now
<zmoylan-pi> not so much which is more legal as to which can lead to bigger prosecution
<foobarry> its not illegal to rip DRM off your own book
<diddledan> it is in murrica
<foobarry> its not a crime to download it either i don't think . somebody may argue its a copyright violation
<foobarry> but they wou;ldn't pursue if you prove you owned it
<diddledan> afaik it is here too
<foobarry> there is an antiquated law about format shifting but its a civil not criminal law
<foobarry> and makes you a bad person if you rip your own CD to mp3
<zmoylan-pi> i rip my cds but i don't then sell them on afterwards... i put them in storage
<foobarry> yep
<foobarry> same for dvd
<foobarry> although thats more painful
<foobarry> amazon are more in breach, since i buy a CD for my niece and they try to give me the mp3 files via autrip
<diddledan> yeah, format shifting is allowed, but ripping DRM off is a different story I think. if British law follows the DMCA in merrica which is how everyone has tried to lobby at leasst, then you're perfectly allowed under fair use to make copies but circumventing "an effective technological measure" is not allowed even if doing so to meet your ability to make a backup
<foobarry> diddledan: however kindle DeDRms the book when you read it
<foobarry> all you are doing is the same thing
<zmoylan-pi> and apple have just killed off ipod nanos and shuffles so the devices that made everyone lawbreakers are now gone before the law has been sorted :-)
<diddledan> :-)
 * zmoylan-pi sits down and waits to see who gets the patent money for flint axes...
<brainrangers> :( ..byebye iPod :(
<zmoylan-pi> the ipod touch is all that's left and that's an iphone without the phone
<zmoylan-pi> i had an ipod nano 8gb and an ipod classic 128gb.  great devices for watching tv movies on bus
<brainrangers> 3rd gen ipod and then an ipod video
<zmoylan-pi> even on the ipod nano i could read the subtitles of seven samurai in daylight
<brainrangers> had a big crush on cali lewis on that ipod screen *sigh*
<zmoylan-pi> yeah, i used to watch her daily podcast... was dead neat on itunes...
<zmoylan-pi> now i just use audio podcasts on podcatcher... no desktop needed
<zmoylan-pi> it's a pity there's no decent library handling on linux android
<brainrangers> same here . I use downcast on my iphone
<foobarry> i use my cowon iaudio for podcasts
<zmoylan-pi> on ipod i could tell it to copy 3 unwatched episodes of a dozen tv shows and as i watched them and resynced it would copy on later episodes
<foobarry> don't have much storage or battery on my phone, but the cowon is awesome and lasts forever
<foobarry> never knowingly undercharged
 * zmoylan-pi pats shiny new phone with 64gb card... the 32gb card was always almost full...
<zmoylan-pi> 10gb music, 10gb audio comedy, 10gb ebooks, audio books
<brainrangers> 10 GIG EBOOKS ?
<brainrangers> are you planning an interstellar journey and need something to read ?
<zmoylan-pi> some of them are pdfs basically jpgs in a pdf
<zmoylan-pi> scans of d&d manuals
<foobarry> i use zinio heavily for free magz for my library
<foobarry> its sluggish but they have about 500 popular magz including linux format and linux user/developer and pi mag
<zmoylan-pi> but i suspect i'll just fill the 64gb card and need to get a 128gb card... so back to ipod classic levels... i could stuff an entire season of star trek ds9 on that :-)
<foobarry> no longer need to feel bad about skimning a magazine and not reading it all
<brainrangers> i currently have season 3 of halt and catch fire on the ipad
<foobarry> i watched it but it was meh
<diddledan> I enjoyed the first two seasons of Halt and Catch Fire. Haven't got around to the third yet
<diddledan> so much nostalgia
<zmoylan-pi> i watched first season and meh.  then again first time i watched first season of mad men i felt the same
<brainrangers> i got a boatload of C64 nostalgia
<diddledan> nostalgia isn't what it used to be though
<diddledan> from twitter: Overheard at #Blackhat: "He's so boring that the hackers who stole his identity later returned it"
<brainrangers> diddledan: agree
<brainrangers> do you think its actually possible what they show you in the show ? proto facebook with C64 ?
<diddledan> sure, it's just dialing into a mainframe is all
<zmoylan-pi> bbses in the 80s were huge in usa. not so much this side of the pond as modems were expensive and calls even more so
<brainrangers> true
<diddledan> the US had free local calling which in the uk cost per minute
<zmoylan-pi> as the fastest typist at work it wsa my job to connect to american bbses to get drivers or download guides for sierra games :-)
<diddledan> my Dad has a story of a video conference unit using ISDN (I think) which was left connected to some far flung location over a weekend
<diddledan> needless to say the boss wasn't pleased with the phonebill
<brainrangers> 4 isdn lines give you a pretty good resolution . We had vidconf hardware that used to be able to do that in my previous company
<diddledan> yeah, ISDN was nifty in that it did bondage OOTB
<diddledan> bonding*
<zmoylan-pi> oh my boss left isdn vpn connected to cork from dublin on for entire bank holiday weekend.  not cheap
<diddledan> :-)
<brainrangers> auwaauwauw
<diddledan> you know the Dial (parliament). Dad used to have to dial the Dial to provide support :-p
<zmoylan-pi> walk in monday... go to use it and see it's connected... i don't disconeect in case something is been monitored... ask around... find my boss was using it... wait a few hours for him to stagger in late... and then ask... fun times...
<zmoylan-pi> *tuesday
<foobarry> alibre has a binary install that includes private versions of all its dependencies. It runs on 32-bit and 64-bit Intel compatible machines. To install or upgrade, simply copy paste the following command into a terminal and press Enter:
<foobarry> sudo -v && wget -nv -O- https://download.calibre-ebook.com/linux-installer.py | sudo python -c "import sys; main=lambda:sys.stderr.write('Download failed\n'); exec(sys.stdin.read()); main()"
<foobarry> YOU BAD PERSON!
<diddledan> I wonder if the Dial still contract Sony for their video archival system
<brainrangers> i wish there was a command line way to add books to the calibre library
<brainrangers> then I could run the machine completely headless
<zmoylan-pi> does it not have command line options?
<foobarry> it does
<diddledan> foobarry: from what I can gather the Calibre guys have a somewhat lackadaisical approach to security
<foobarry> and standards
<foobarry> and UX
<diddledan> https://git.zx2c4.com/calibre-mount-helper-exploit/about/
<foobarry> sigh
<foobarry> going to an island for 1 week
<foobarry> feel unprepared in terms of visual media to take
<foobarry> i feel like somebody should fork calibre and rip out the UI for something simple. i'll never read books using it
<foobarry> or fetch news (although i used to get lwn.net from it)
<brainrangers> calibredb add [options] file1 file2 file3 ...
<brainrangers> :) Command line adding to Calibre :) Shweeeet
<foobarry> tried adding onedrive to rclone but it doesn't work (yet) with onedrive for business :(
<brainrangers> God , onedrive is a disaster
<diddledan> my niblings are taking the trope of bad depictions of female amour to the extreme with their re-dressing of wonderwoman:  https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/KV4Svwkb/wonderwoman-naked.jpg
<brainrangers> at least she has hips
<brainrangers> why is the one girl purple ? is that Choke-me-barbie ?
<diddledan> I have no idea
<diddledan> her wrist is somewhat askew, too
<diddledan> soyuz is away safely
<daftykins> http://i.imgur.com/LDrUiZk.jpg - Samsung S5 repair, so not worth the time :D
<daftykins> having to go in through the screen, which was glued in = eww
<TwistedLucidity> It's more and more common
<daftykins> yip, not mine though thankfully
<TwistedLucidity> Items are rarely designed to be torn down and fixed, slim is king.
<diddledan> gimme a desktop with plugin bits
<TwistedLucidity> People pour scorn on Dyson, but at least I can strip mine with little more than a screw driver.
<TwistedLucidity> Heck, one reason I got a ThinkPad was that I can take the thing apart to fix whatever it broken.
<diddledan> Dyson are expensive though :-(
<daftykins> that they are
<daftykins> crikey, Sark where i just went have electricity units priced at 69p
<daftykins> and a tonne of sand which'd be maybe Â£20-30 on Guernsey would cost Â£160 to them
<diddledan> ouch
<daftykins> 18p for a unit for me
<daftykins> but we have a high and a low rate at set hours, that usual scheme i'm sure is around England too for load balancing?
<martinb61> Anyone in the UK using FreeCAD?
<daftykins> might be better just to jump straight into the actual question
<martinb61> Anyone got an opinion on it, good bad or just not up to the other tools?
<diddledan> can only UK people have an opinion, or is zmoylan-pi allowed to provide one, too? :-p
<martinb61> anyone can answer
<diddledan> personally I've never done cad at all, let alone with freecad
<diddledan> this looks... yeah. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FU9G5eMCA1o
<diddledan> sorry that was russian, this is the engrish: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LHoxuW01heg
<diddledan> then for straight to dvd, there's https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQKv-ZLxSTg
<daftykins> that waggot fella has issues
<diddledan> bleeping waggott!
<daftykins> is an op going to do something, or is it a common rule for all #u channels to do nothing? :)
<zmoylan-pi> i just put him on ignore as his bouncing was annoying earlier
<daftykins> mmm
<daftykins> gah, upgraded Kodi on my Amazon FireTV to 17.3 from 16.1 to see if it fixed bitstreaming Dolby Digital Plus audio, it did - but it broke DTS bitstreaming at the same time
<daftykins> only way to revert wiped all my config :)
<daftykins> and now it's too late for a film!
<daftykins> bed!
 * zmoylan-pi breaks out the glove puppets....
<zmoylan-pi> ...and sammy the squirrel went *neep* *neep* *neep* and they all went home for tea...
#ubuntu-uk 2017-07-29
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<diddledan> mornin
<daftykins> \o
#ubuntu-uk 2017-07-30
<knightwise> clear
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<dwatkins> regrouping, back in a bit
<diddledan> m00
<brobostigon> meep
#ubuntu-uk 2018-07-23
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zmoylan-pi> morning mammals
<brobostigon> morning blerontians
<diddledan> leaky flats leak
<diddledan> upstairs' water supply goes through my flat and is leaking
<diddledan> that maybe means they'll need to turn off upstairs' at the street?
<knightwise> hey guys , hows everyone doin today
<zmoylan-pi> listening to cars pass over roads covered in rain water outside...
<knightwise> zmoylan-pi: lucku
<knightwise> we havent had rain in 5 weeks
<zmoylan-pi> we had a few spots of drizzle last week but 4+ weeks of nothing before that. today was proper rain, not for long though
<knightwise> only recently discovered the magic of Tmux
<knightwise> Very Very cool
<zmoylan-pi> all hail tmux \o/
<zmoylan-pi> irssi in one pane, newsbeuter in another and tytter on occasion in another. all running on a rasp pi that any machine at home can ssh to
<knightwise> irssi in one , rtv in the othr
<knightwise> still need to setup my newsbeuter
<knightwise> running it on my Linux destop at home and ssh'ng in remotely
<zmoylan-pi> the rasp pi sits in kitchen connected to a phone charger running on a sniff of leccy
<knightwise> sniff of leccy ?
<zmoylan-pi> next to no electricity
<knightwise> aha
<zmoylan-pi> and if i got a pi b+ instead of my ancient pi b then i could reduce that footprint and get a faster cpu :-)
<knightwise> i have a pi3 at home i could repurpose for that function
<knightwise> Cool deals , its BUYO and all firewall ports open on the new project i"m working as a subcontractor.
<knightwise> juiced up my Macbook pro with some open source apps an CLI tools
<knightwise> pretty spiffy system :)
<zmoylan-pi> i see wordstar is been reborn as word tsar... :-)
<knightwise> Nice pun there :)
<knightwise> The thing i'm starting to notice with using stuff like Tmux is that my Pc's become more an more like terminals while all the hot stuff is going on in the "central" systems I connect to
<knightwise> hey awilkins
<awilkins> Hi
<knightwise> heya peepz
<zmoylan-pi> hey diddly hey
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi: you called?
<diddledan> :-p
<zmoylan-pi> i only sait it once, not 3 times...
 * diddledan pokenprods the wise knight
<diddledan> https://youtu.be/M9DCAFUerzs?t=6
<zmoylan-pi> drones look like fun... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBb_kSO3vTo
<daftykins> i can hear a distant bell ringing, i think they are beginning to collect the heatstruck dead
<zmoylan-pi> or the icecream man has taken a darker turn...
<knightwise> New post! https://knightwise.com/why-offline-is-the-new-luxury/
#ubuntu-uk 2018-07-24
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zmoylan-pi> morning mammals
<brobostigon> morning kirikkets
<diddledan> boobs
<brobostigon> liboobs
<knightwise> Boobs !
<knightwise> i'm here
<knightwise> i'm up
<knightwise> somebody mentioned boobs ?
<knightwise> Where ? ?
 * knightwise franticly looks around for boobs
<diddledan> https://i.ytimg.com/vi/G-QbmkGySgU/maxresdefault.jpg
<knightwise> diddledan: Birds dif boobs
<knightwise> Tmux, ya gotta love it :)
<brobostigon> :)
<knightwise> I"ve started to notice that working via the CLI and working OFFLINE are the biggest boosts to my creativity
<zmoylan-pi> risc processing for the human brain when you don't have to constantly interpret icons and buttons, just pure text
<zmoylan-pi> ibm ran massive ad campaign back in the days of os/2 about how using a mouse slowed you down too
<knightwise> at a point its actually true
<knightwise> When i see people using an old AS400 interface .. they are FLYING
<knightwise> For me its mostly because it is very distraction free
<zmoylan-pi> no notifications, no images, single tasking as much as possible
<zmoylan-pi> that's why i have so much on my pi these days that i ssh into :-)
<knightwise> yep , totally understand what you mean.
<knightwise> I'm gonna beef up the storage on my Pi a little bit so I can use it to run some scripts and download stuff
<knightwise> I sync my Pi with my iPad and my ipHone over ssh to have all of the downloaded music, youtube video's and podcasts delivered to my machine
<knightwise> gonna explain it all on the next podcast
<daftykins> beauty of CLI is that you're the one responsible when things don't work, too :D
<knightwise> Yep, true
<knightwise> that still brings me back to the question if the Linux GUI isn't overated
<daftykins> well that was really odd, yesterday a switch here in this London apartment i'm working in completely quit spitting out packets any which way, now today it's back to normal (having unplugged everything and slowly added it back)
<zmoylan-pi> and with cli there isn't a race to redesign the ui every month
<knightwise> yep that is true
<knightwise> its not good for EVERYTHING but I do keep questioning the need for a separate linux DESKTOP in my life
<zmoylan-pi> switch overheated perhaps?
<knightwise> zmoylan-pi: could be
<daftykins> well at first i pondered that but it isn't that bad in here... plus i tried giving it some downtime before another power up, didn't make any difference
<zmoylan-pi> we're at that time of year when hardware that gives no problems starts to misbehave cause it can't handle the heat
<zmoylan-pi> or some other device is sending packets on the network thats making it misbehave... :-)
<daftykins> mmmm everything is plugged back in so i suspect this one will remain a phantom issue
<daftykins> unless when mid-day rolls around and i resume dying of heat - and it flakes out again too...
<knightwise> You gotta put a fan on it
<zmoylan-pi> max heat is around 2-3pm as the heat from the sun warms up concrete and bricks and that heat starts to bake the contents of their buildings
<diddledan> it's already 27C in my flat
<diddledan> unless my thermiewotsit is wonky
 * zmoylan-pi has an 18" fan blowing air right now...
<diddledan> before the heat and now: https://www.bbc.com/news/in-pictures-44885493
<knightwise> yeah , its pretty bad
<knightwise> my lawn is actually shrinking.
<daftykins> the poor TV guy i had visit yesterday came down dripping with sweat twice from going up in the loft to fit a satellite multiswitch
<knightwise> i have a 2 cm gap between my cobblestones and my grass
<daftykins> oh that was me and diddledan last night with scissors
<daftykins> ;D
<knightwise> you kids !
<knightwise> GET OFF MY LAWN
<zmoylan-pi> is it still a lawn when it's brown and dead?
<knightwise> its not completely dead yet
<knightwise> its a zombie lawn
<zmoylan-pi> grainssssss......
<daftykins> got asked to set up a safe with a PIN just now, doesn't really fill me with confidence that the things touchscreen PIN panel runs from 4 AA batteries on a compartment inside
<diddledan> yeah - those things are gimmicks - the batteries can die so there's a lock+key override
<daftykins> hmm didn't see anything in the cupboard where it lives
<zmoylan-pi> don't worry, they'll lock the key inside for security....
<daftykins> \o/
<zmoylan-pi> and the manual. because when the panel batteries run down knowing that the instructions on what to do will be vitally important and you'll know were they are for sure
<daftykins> clearly it should use BASH security: "you have one attempt, execute a perfect tar command to archive your current directory AND SCP it to the following remote host"
<zmoylan-pi> nah just the old 'enter 11 digit prime number to continue'
<diddledan> or: enter the result of sqrt(-1)
<diddledan> and it's not i or j
<knightwise> anyone ever owned a motorola android phone ?
<zmoylan-pi> does one own android, does not google own it? :-)
<knightwise> lol
<knightwise> just thinging about switching back to android for a swhile
<daftykins> i've chosen moto g's for clients before, always been nice phones
<daftykins> most recently picked the 'moto g6 play' dual SIM for a lady's first smartphone - she's really getting on well with it
<knightwise> Worth the risk to go for a mid range model (not a flagship phone ?)
<daftykins> you might well be a bit more demanding so the higher end 'moto g6' might be worth it, but i find if anything is glass backed or fronted they'll suffer greatly if not baby'd.. and flagships seem to be all about anything other than practicality
<daftykins> case in point my clients Note 8 which already has smashed front and rear glass
<daftykins> which reminds me, i need to call LG and see if they still lost my Nexus 5x that was going in for repair
<knightwise> I was looking at the G6plus
<knightwise> with a good case
<daftykins> :D
<knightwise> also want to downplay my phone use and focus on my tablet a bit more
<daftykins> yep LG have still lost my phone
<daftykins> or rather DPD have
<knightwise> dpd = /dev/null
<daftykins> i return \o/ another laptop revived, but ugh walking around London is hell to me
<knightwise> daftykins: good to have you back
<daftykins> :D thanks!
<daftykins> shirt off, balcony doors and windows reopened, hidden from the tormenting heat :)
<knightwise> are you torrenting heat ?
<knightwise> in THIS weather ?
<daftykins> tor Ment ;D
<knightwise> you wouldn't download a heatwave  .. would you ?
<daftykins> it'd melt my phone line!
<daftykins> heh my clients silly lighting system here puts noise onto the phone line (in voice calls terms) when the lights are on
<zmoylan-pi> so he can dial in from abroad and appreciate the hum of his lighting system :-)
<daftykins> xD
<zmoylan-pi> does he have a ring doorbell so he can watch blue tits nicking his milk?
<daftykins> hehe, nah not a fan of the gimmicky tech
<zmoylan-pi> what if they added a laser....? :-)
<zmoylan-pi> troll cats from the comfort of your sofa...
<daftykins> the poor little blighters would finally get some attention when left in Guernsey
<zmoylan-pi> oh for that all you need is a recording of a dog barking to remind them of the time they woke you up at 3am meowing their brains out... :-)
 * arsen slaps daftykins 
<daftykins> ow
<diddledan> \o/ https://twitter.com/aaisp/status/1021506257319063553
<zmoylan-pi> time to get that 8k tv :-P
#ubuntu-uk 2018-07-25
<lopta> Anyone have thoughts on Lubuntu Vs. Xubuntu for a desktop PC that gets use mostly for Web browsing?
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zmoylan-pi> morning mammals
<brobostigon> morning krikkets
<knightwise> good morning !
<brobostigon> morning
<knightwise> another day at the office :) Just arrived in Brussels
<knightwise> Been doing some archiving at home . found a massive podcast collection from 2005 with a bunch of old shows
<brobostigon> :)
<knightwise> even the very first episodes of the knightcast
<knightwise> medium to high cringe factor
<knightwise> i think everyones keyboard melted today
<knightwise> Mine is probably getting replayced btw
<zmoylan-pi> those ibm model m's are designed to survive a 1950s atom test... :-)
<knightwise> Yeah. I have a 2017 macbook pro with a butterfly keyboard. Need I say more ?
<knightwise> if as much as an ameoba gets stuck under the keys, the jam up
<knightwise> zmoylan-pi: i'm gearing up my Pi3 to become my dedicated remote CLI machine, Ive found a 128 gig USB stick that I had lying around.
<knightwise> So with SSH, Tmux and some other apps I think I can get teh max out of that little machine
<knightwise> What apps (cli) are you running on your pi ?
<zmoylan-pi> irssi, newsbeuter, sc, ttytter, nano for editor, lynx for web browsing (no graphics), still looking for a database i like
<knightwise> sc ?
<zmoylan-pi> spreadsheet, i use as easy as on my desktop but occasionly i use sc on the pi
<zmoylan-pi> i've even considered getting a pi-top laptop so i can bring my console addiction to my travelling computer
<knightwise> well, you can get just about any older laptop and use it by only installing the cli version of linux . nu ?
<knightwise> no ?
<zmoylan-pi> yeah, but i like the idea of limited small laptops. and with the pi-top you should be able to upgrade as new pi's are releaed
<knightwise> 319 Dollars ? ? whow
<zmoylan-pi> not cheap, no...
<zmoylan-pi> i've gotten used to spending about â¬250 for my laptops, spoiled i am in the eu :-)
<knightwise> Hmm; the Pi-Tab is also interesting
<zmoylan-pi> yeah, couple that with a solid usb keyboard and you'd also have a full linux distro laptop...
<knightwise> nice toy to play around with
<zmoylan-pi> a full linux distro is not a toy... coz linux sux at gaming :-P
<knightwise> lol true
<knightwise> hmm. i SSH in from my ipad pro to my Pi @ home. I get a pretty good fullscreen cli experience with that while only using minimal bandwidth
<knightwise> even works on the train
<zmoylan-pi> turning a locked down appliance into a real computer
<knightwise> yep , works surprisingly well
<knightwise> and it looks cool
<knightwise> listening back to an archive of podcasts from 2005 .. oh boy
<knightwise> zmoylan-pi: have you ever played with exposing the pi webserver and making it do things with py scripts ? like triggering your google home etc
<zmoylan-pi> no, i see the pi at home as a simple tool that i only use when at home. i've looked into exposing it to the internet for remote access outside of the house but i'd want to feel more confident in that i could secure it
<zmoylan-pi> a lot more confident
<knightwise> True, what ports do you expose , only ssh ?
<daftykins> never seen that before, my bank told google automatically about my new card details to update their payment system o0
<mgdm> that's happened to me with Apple Pay before
<daftykins> interesting
<daftykins> i'd have seen that happen if it does on google pay, but my phone with the older card reg'd died, so i didn't see the transition
<zmoylan-pi> only ssh on the rasp-pi atm
<mgdm> it was quite handy because I could use my phone to pay for things 3 days before the card showed up :)
<zmoylan-pi> saw a plonker paying with an apple watch for the first time yesterday. looked super awkward trying to twist wrist to touch the reader with the watch while filling hands with groceries
<mgdm> it's always fun to watch (ahem) those folk on the London Underground
<daftykins> zmoylan-pi: xD
<brobostigon> https://photos.app.goo.gl/v4RDXg92PovXoyMQ8 :)
<zmoylan-pi> only 1 of each? pft... newb... :-P
<brobostigon> haha, :)
<zmoylan-pi> you're supposed to have a 5lb bag of d4s alone just so you can scatter them on the floor and stop a hoard on ninjas :-D
<brobostigon> :D
<zmoylan-pi> another 5lb of d20s so you can honestly tell a police officer that you critically hit that mugger :-P
<brobostigon> hehe
<zmoylan-pi> and enough pencils that you could in a pinch put vampire hunter on job applications
<brobostigon> or enough that i can put, arcane magic expert on my cv.
<zmoylan-pi> more than that... https://www.reddit.com/r/DnD/comments/2vf84f/how_to_incorporate_dd_into_your_resume/
<brobostigon> :)
#ubuntu-uk 2018-07-26
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zmoylan-pi> morning mammals
<brobostigon> morning krikkets
<knightwise> Greetings humans !
<knightwise> bow down to me or feel my wrath
 * brobostigon readies his wizards staff, with a force shield spell ready.
<knightwise> been setting up my new Pi3 at home for command line stuff and some scripting
<knightwise> just killed my access by messing around with the wireless settings
<knightwise> not smart
<brobostigon> woops.
<knightwise> bwa , i'll play with it when i get home
<brobostigon> :)
<knightwise> Gonna need to attach an external drive to it anyway for extra storag
<knightwise> e
<brobostigon> ah.
<brobostigon> https://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/coreRulebook/spells/wallOfForce.html#wall-of-force woop. a force shield spell does exist, :)
<knightwise> I wonder if it will withstand my flacid-leak-of-death
 * knightwise waves around his flacid-leak-of-death
<knightwise> cower in fear mere mortals !
 * brobostigon casts fireball, and hit and causes knightwise 1d8 of fire damage.
<knightwise> * AARGH * Damn you mortal !
<brobostigon> :)
<lopta> Hello awilkins
<awilkins> Hi
<Wurblez> Hi. Installed 18.04 and everything is fine, but when connecting to my Samsung TV, Ubuntu/Nvidia is trying to do a really high resolution and the tv doesn't like it. What's the best way to stop it from going above a certain resolution without limiting its automatic resolution functionality?
#ubuntu-uk 2018-07-27
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<knightwise> morning brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning knightwise
<knightwise> how are you doing today man
<knightwise> p
<brobostigon> boiled, signs of getting older, and you?
<knightwise> ha :) same thing
<knightwise> although, i've been doing this mindfullness thing and started to notice it kinda works so .. just the boiled part
<brobostigon> :)
<knightwise> Have a new outsouring project i"m working on as a contractor, get to be on my own machine all day long.
<knightwise> thats nice , now i at least have a full set of unix tools at my disposal ,been learning a lot bout tmux and stuff
<brobostigon> :)
<brobostigon> been using emacs recently, is ideal really, has the programming stuff builtin, postgresql client, spreadsheet.
<knightwise> Thats something I still have to learn
<knightwise> sounds very interesting
<brobostigon> it is, yes.
<knightwise> Hm :( Downside to working on a pi is that RTV (reddit client) can be damn unstable :(
<brobostigon> :(
<knightwise> gotta figure out why that is, has something to do with the way the Pi handles locale settings
<brobostigon> i see.
<knightwise> for the rest its behaving quite nicely
<brobostigon> cool.
<knightwise> i do have to remind myself i'm not working on an I5 with 16 gigs of ram and an SSD anymore.
<brobostigon> :)
<knightwise> although I was thinking if an old netbook with an SSD would not be a better idea, since I would still be working on the i386 architecture of ubuntu
<knightwise> it wouln't be fast but neither is the pi
<zmoylan-pi> well reddit has rss feeds so you could put them in a rss reader...
<knightwise> yeah , but not quite the same
<knightwise> i think that it has mostly to do with the implementation of rtv in raspbian,;
<knightwise> i think if i stick to ubuntu mate i'll get it working
 * zmoylan-pi wonders what reddit would be like in lynx.... ::opens a new terminal tab::
<zmoylan-pi> ok... not that way... :-)
<knightwise> have you tried brow.sh ?
<zmoylan-pi> nope
<knightwise> looks promising
#ubuntu-uk 2018-07-28
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zmoylan-pi> morning mammals
<brobostigon> morning krikkits
 * penguin42 hopes his mail to sainsburys gets to the team with the clue about their self-service tills; the UI changes they've made are a mess
<zmoylan-pi> i've used self service tills 3-4 times. different shops, they are awful. i avoid most of the time and walk out if there's no humans on a till
<penguin42> zmoylan-pi: I use them in preference most of the time, but you do have to get to know their quirks
#ubuntu-uk 2018-07-29
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zmoylan-pi> allo
<brobostigon> morning
#ubuntu-uk 2019-07-22
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<brobostigon> \o
<brobostigon> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49069880 first pre-coronation resignation.
<zmoylan-pi> and in history of computing today is alan cox's 51st birthday...
<brobostigon> :)
#ubuntu-uk 2019-07-23
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<daftykins> greetings!
<daftykins> and that means it's about time for me to turn in - looks to be a horrible heatwave coming here today, so here's hoping i miss it entirely :D
<brobostigon> https://darksky.net/forecast/52.0854,-1.3369/uk224/en most certainly will be here.
<daftykins> ooh 30s, nasty
<brobostigon> our 1 year old, hates this weather.
<brobostigon> and so does daddy, :(
<daftykins> oh forgot new kernel
<knightwise> morning peepz
<brobostigon> morning
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<brobostigon> o/
<zmoylan-pi> today is a day to find your local library and sit in the cool ventilated space...
<brobostigon> :)
<knightwise> Ripping some DVD's for my sis inlaws baby
<knightwise> had to do some digging to find a device in the house that still had a dvd
<zmoylan-pi> and totatlly not because you wanted rainbow: the directors cut for your commutes... :-P
#ubuntu-uk 2019-07-24
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<knightwise> morning brobostigon
<knightwise> another hot one today
<brobostigon> morning knightwise
<brobostigon> https://darksky.net/forecast/52.0854,-1.3369/uk224/en oh yes, :(
<knightwise> been looking at Evolution as a mail client for my linux machine
<knightwise> amazed at how far its come
<brobostigon> yes, it mostly works pretty well.
#ubuntu-uk 2019-07-25
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<brobostigon> https://twitter.com/scraliontis/status/1154280573797580801
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<brobostigon> \o
<daftykins> \o/
<daftykins> naughty SSD in my server decided life wasn't worth living, so it took the VM that was stashed on it with it - my my
<brobostigon> :(
<daftykins> kept working to read mind you, so i was able to copy it off - it just doesn't boot properly anymore
<daftykins> very interesting, someone on github has a project edit of vmfs-tools to be able to mount the version 6 file system, read only however... meant i got to the data from a dingo live session fine :)
<brobostigon> :)
<daftykins> all recovered \o/
<daftykins> now to celebrate with some music, ah
<brobostigon> :)
<daftykins> oop gotta switch host back now
<brobostigon> https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/1154309504370139137 well its happened, lets hope mps have a backbone.
<zmoylan-pi> eeeeeew, new twitter ui....
<brobostigon> agreed.
<knightwise> mornign !
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<daftykins> \o
<brobostigon> o/
<zmoylan-pi> so many people... slack must be down.... :-P
<daftykins> haha
<daftykins> still never touched that
<zmoylan-pi> requires too much ram for me to go near it :-)
<zmoylan-pi> this 2gb netbook barely handles 4 tabs in firefox well enough :-D
<daftykins> standard values from the early 2000s? ;D
<daftykins> time to dump it!
<zmoylan-pi> nonsense, it's got another 3-4 years left in it
<daftykins> one tab with youtube no doubt brings it to its' knees, that's way past it
<zmoylan-pi> i still have the 1gb netbook it replaced. trying to find a use for it. super light linux distro and run dos apps on seems most likely :-)
<zmoylan-pi> now i just need to get a copy of wordstar....
<zmoylan-pi> i've looked at getting a cheap laptop with 4 or even 8gb but it's hard to justify dumping fully working hardware
<daftykins> hmm it's quite easy when it's a waste of power (:
<daftykins> a friend who i've been helping with the small business of is umming and arring over what form of system to get for working for said business with, trouble is he's trying to have his cake and eat it
<daftykins> "maybe i can convince them i need a desktop AND a laptop" he says :D
<zmoylan-pi> when a rasp pi can be both.... :-P
<daftykins> nope
<daftykins> been keeping up with all the design fails on the 4th?
<zmoylan-pi> usb-c a little wonky, so warm it needs a fan... massive fails...
<daftykins> they very much are
<daftykins> he's essentially a data scientist with medical data as the target, so full disk encryption is the bare minimum initial requirement i'm mandating... his workloads typically involve R Studio crunching away at multiple several-gigabyte databases which it seems to like to hold in RAM
<daftykins> so 32GB is the minimum i've been aiming for with new systems
<zmoylan-pi> and version 4 of many things are iffy... dbase iv killed the product line is the classic example
<zmoylan-pi> well for that 32gb sounds sane
<daftykins> cursed :D
<zmoylan-pi> thankfully ssds are coming down in price as capacity goes up other wise those datasets would require spinning rust
<knightwise> morning everyone
<daftykins> unfortunately, whilst the sane approach would've been to have a chunky server somewhere running the software and his minions could have connected in remotely to run tasks, the more rapid way to get things going has been to buy a couple of them workstation class laptops
<knightwise> I just reinstalled my 2009 iMac with the successor to crunchbang
<daftykins> managed to grab a pair of Dell Precisions with true hex core 8th gen i7 CPUs, 32GB RAM and 1TB SSDs for about a grand a piece
<zmoylan-pi> crunchbang is a name i have not heard of in a long time
<daftykins> same here
<knightwise> Its called Helium now
<knightwise> But it FLIES on this machine (i have inserted an SSD)
<daftykins> iMacs :(
<zmoylan-pi> but an imac from when they were upgradeable... a little
<zmoylan-pi> not the glued wafers apple seems intent on selling now
<daftykins> mmm worse and worse all the time
<knightwise> I do have one.
<knightwise> i swapped out the HD with an SSD and pumped in some more ram
<zmoylan-pi> but gillette better watch their back before apple crowds them out of their own market on razor blades...
<knightwise> this machine is 10 years old and still great to play around with
<zmoylan-pi> old hardware can be great. if it's survived that long it's got +3 on build quality :-)
<zmoylan-pi> or luck
<daftykins> i think it's an early or late 2007 heap i got given for free upstairs, core 2 duo with an AMD Radeon HD in it
<daftykins> a client brought it to me with 1GB RAM and the original HDD in, running 10.6 snow leopard - and asked if it could be brought up to date
<daftykins> i said, "in a word, no"
<daftykins> most current MacOS is 10.11 El Capitan, which is EOL of course
<zmoylan-pi> slap linux on it... :-P
<knightwise> Did that for one of my friends too. Still getting a lot of life out of her machine
<daftykins> i have... and despite totally sorting all the cooling, it was hitting its' thermal limits the other day
<zmoylan-pi> ah, not good
<zmoylan-pi> lets just make the whole computer go slower because of heat...
<knightwise>  ah but yes , linux does not properly support the cooling fans
<daftykins> Apple are of course notorious for not putting in decent cooling
<knightwise> on mac mini's that is
<daftykins> no the fans work perfectly fine, it ramps up as it got hot
<zmoylan-pi> they optimise their hardware to their os so close
<knightwise> any suggestions for a good lightweight streaming app ?
<knightwise> preferably cli ?
<daftykins> to receive? streamlink i use with twitch
<daftykins> totally bypasses the memory hungry browser experience and allows piping to a player with hardware decode support
<daftykins> assuming you mean to view streams
<knightwise> listen to audiostreams
<daftykins> example source?
<knightwise> somaFm
<daftykins> meh should be tonnes of stuff that can play shoutcast URLs
<zmoylan-pi> audio players are the text editors of the media world :-)
<zmoylan-pi> ...but without the lynch mobs obviously...
<knightwise> i think vlc can do the url via the commandline too
<zmoylan-pi> isn't there a whole cli option for vlc? it has every other option... :-)
<zmoylan-pi> https://wiki.videolan.org/Documentation:Command_line/#Use_the_command_line
<daftykins> cvlc isn't it
<brobostigon> which i use with streamlink fairly often, :)
<daftykins> ooh just dropped Zen a line about their G.fast products, sounds good for my friend in Exeter
<zmoylan-pi> zen... i wonder how relaxing their hold music is.... :-P
<daftykins> client wanted call diversion on his London flat line, they want Â£2.40/mo extra just to enable it
<daftykins> BT'd be double that, it seems
<zmoylan-pi> in breaking news... people still have landlines at home.... more news as we get it... :-P
<daftykins> it's mandatory for VDSL2 based technologies
<daftykins> and G.fast still comes with a line too, so you could be having 330 Mb down and still have it
<zmoylan-pi> oh no, i get it for data, but an actual phone plugged in for calls...
<zmoylan-pi> i'd be tempted to have a rasp pi answer all the calls and play some sound byte from that day in history for the time traveller making the call
<daftykins> :D you can indeed get FreePBX for Pi i believe
<daftykins> what gets me is that every time i tell him that he's racking up huge bills for calling Guernsey mobiles and landlines from his London landline, he keeps forgetting and does it anyway
<zmoylan-pi> todays would have to be something about today is the 108th anniversary of ibm getting their first patent...
<brobostigon> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:On_this_day/Today it might be quicker just to get it to pull the information that page.
<zmoylan-pi> odd, shouldn't the day show today and not jul 20?
<brobostigon> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/July_25
<zmoylan-pi> i got that manually but the generic today is showing wrong date for some reason
<brobostigon> i agree, it asnt showing properly.
<brobostigon> asnt*
<brobostigon> wasnt*
<knightwise> I have the chance to pickup a second hand Thinkpad. Wondering if I should go for the L540 or the T430
<daftykins> minimum 4th gen haswell imo
<daftykins> like the T440s i'm typing from (:
<zmoylan-pi> hold out for one with the butterfly keyboard :-P
<knightwise> They keyboards are the bomb indeed
<knightwise> I think the T430 doenst have the hasswel .. right
<daftykins> nah that'd be the generation prior, ivybridge
<knightwise> big speed difference you think ?
<daftykins> not really that, mostly an efficiency one
<zmoylan-pi> no no, THE butterfly keyboard :-) http://giant.gfycat.com/OddballIdolizedIbex.gif
<daftykins> though back then they did tend to say 12-14% year on year gains
<daftykins> oh... i was just thinking butterfly as in the most recent apple design that has the failing keys xD
<daftykins> which had me puzzled since the topic was ThinkPads :D
<zmoylan-pi> such a pity that ibm never made it reliable enough to keep making
<zmoylan-pi> basically a full sized laptop keyboard in a netbook
<zmoylan-pi> ah, a better gif... https://giphy.com/gifs/action-butterfly-keyboard-l3iJQ372QPalq
<zmoylan-pi> look how thick that screen is, whole laptop would fit in that depth now :-)
<knightwise> god I hate the butterflies on the mac
<knightwise> reason i bought a thinkpad X1
<zmoylan-pi> you spend so much of your time typing, why wouldn't it be in top 3 reasons to pick a laptop?
<knightwise> It was .
<zmoylan-pi> ditto screens, i hate the glossy screens that are so prevelent these days...
<knightwise> God yes
<knightwise>  First think I bought for the mac and the X1 : Matte screen displays
<zmoylan-pi> you could sit outdoors and read your screen
<knightwise> I love to be out and about
<knightwise> Do my best writing when i'm in a cafe somewhere
<zmoylan-pi> in hot weather like this outside offers a chance of a breath of air
<knightwise> not for me . i'm  sticking to the indoors today
 * daftykins hides in between the thick stone walls
<knightwise> up since 4.45 this morning
 * zmoylan-pi is waiting till after 1700 before heading out.
<knightwise> yeah , and not even then
<knightwise> hmm.. wifi keeps cutting out after X period of time onthe imac
<knightwise> gotte figure out why that is
<daftykins> because they're junk :)
<daftykins> is it 19.04 you popped on?
<daftykins> then again you said some other distro that might not have a 'buntu base, nevermind
<knightwise> its a debian based one
<knightwise> popping in an external wifi card. see what this does
<knightwise> ha :) Mpv + url of Stream = lightest music player ever
<nucc1> does anyone know how to lower the wait time for disks on startup? I've got a usb disk connected and in /etc/fstab that may not always be available, and i'd like to lower the wait time from 90 seconds to something like 20 seconds
<zmoylan-pi> steam is live https://www.spacex.com/webcast
#ubuntu-uk 2019-07-26
<knightwise> morning guys
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<knightwise> hey Bro
<knightwise> brobostigon:
<brobostigon> hi knightwise
<knightwise> Second day running Helium on my old iMac
<brobostigon> helium?
<knightwise> A crunchbang derivative
<brobostigon> ah.
<knightwise> Needed a distraction free interface to do some writing
<knightwise> popped it on an old imac to see how it would run
<brobostigon> :)
<knightwise> turns out pretty well + the interface is light and sweet
<brobostigon> cool.
<knightwise> Managed to get some writing done instead of surfing around on facebook and the lot
<brobostigon> thats good.
<daftykins> \o
<brobostigon> so no web browser or anything like that, to remove temptation?
<brobostigon> sudo apt-get remove firefox chromium google-chrome
<knightwise> there is a browser but its not lightning fast so its ok for research but not snappy enough to surf around
<brobostigon> ah.
<brobostigon> maybe have only something like links installed, useless for facebook or something like that, but works fine for wikipedia.
<knightwise> not a bad idea
<knightwise> been using W3m too when surfing on my remote machine
<knightwise> ha :) Vlc + youtube url = youtube music without the use of a browser
<brobostigon> :)
<knightwise> the only thing openbox lacks is snapping windows
<knightwise> there is a script for it somewhere I think
<knightwise> back to the grind. Copy to write
<knightwise> ttyl
<brobostigon> :)
#ubuntu-uk 2019-07-27
<knightwise> morning everyone
<brobostigon> morning
<knightwise> hey brobostigon
<knightwise> how you doin man
<brobostigon> hangover, today is my birthday, i had a drink with my dad yesterday, and this afternoon with my fiance and friends.
<brobostigon> and you?
<knightwise> happy birthday brobostigon
<brobostigon> ty, :)
<knightwise> hope you have a great day
<brobostigon> :)
 * knightwise is writing up a script for the next podcast
<brobostigon> :)
<knightwise> my new imac running helium is realy helping me with my creativity , i have more focus to write to i started working on a script
<brobostigon> thats good,
 * brobostigon bought himself a google home, so his productivity will dip a bit now.
<knightwise> brobostigon: its quite nice actualy
<knightwise> I use it to play podcasts and stuff. Very handy
<brobostigon> yes, i found it easy to setup, however the home app isnt the easiest to work out.
<knightwise> no thats true. We use it a lot to do stuff like turning on the lights and the tv and stuff
<knightwise> I still have 2 spare smartlights for the office I should setup
<brobostigon> :)
 * zmoylan-pi struggles with the light switch... :-P
 * brobostigon points zmoylan-pi in the right direction.
 * zmoylan-pi changes the lightbulb to the red bulb for red alerts and initiates red alert procedures... i flick the light switch to turn on the red bulb...
<penguin42> klingon's on the starboard bow?
<zmoylan-pi> intruder alert pointing at the light switch!!
 * brobostigon rolls for perception, 
 * zmoylan-pi checks stats, half elf, dark vision...
<brobostigon> wood elf
<zmoylan-pi> now there's an idea. a cut down dnd that can be played irc... maybe an abbreviated tunnels and trolls...
<brobostigon> :)
<knightwise> I should probably learn how to play DND
 * knightwise has no clue
<knightwise> Ok , gonna check if I can record a podcast here.
<knightwise> ttyl
<knightwise> allllright!
<knightwise> just managed to get sshfs working via fuse on my mac
<knightwise> now mounting all of the folder on my server natively on my mac
<knightwise> THIS is gonna save me a ton of time
<zmoylan-pi> oooh, sounds good....
<knightwise> YES Ã¨
<knightwise> Thrilled about this. all i need now is to find a way to do the same thing on windows
<knightwise> https://codeyarns.com/2018/05/03/how-to-mount-remote-directory-on-windows-using-sshfs-win/
<knightwise> gonna try this
<brobostigon> is anyone aware of a router/ap that has two earials, ie can connect to one wifi network and the other aerial running as a wifi AP?
<zmoylan-pi> does it need 2 aerials to do that?
<brobostigon> good question, i am making an assumption.
<daftykins> it wouldn't need to be a router if it were just extending an existing network
<daftykins> there are extender APs, but making packets hop twice is an absolute abomination and shouldn't be done
<daftykins> if you're wanting to cover a wifi deadspot in the home or something, a pair of powerline adapters where one of the two is an access point one would be a good solution
<daftykins> better yet - a normal access point with a cable back to the main router
<brobostigon> i will research those, good thinking. :)
<penguin42> brobostigon: There are wireless extenders that do exactly that
<penguin42> brobostigon: There are also wireless routers that you can add multiple and they somehow organise themselves
<brobostigon> so either option could work, just need to work out which is going to be most cost effective.
<daftykins> those do not sound like routers, but mesh APs - all bollocks
<daftykins> i highly, highly... strongly advise against anything that relies on radio hopping twice :P
<brobostigon> the issue i am ultimatly trying to solve, is the wifi network at work, cant allow devices to see eachother, ie when i tried to setup a google home at work it wouldnt work because the phone and home couldnt see eachother, which works fine on my home at home, because it allows devices to see eachother connected to the same network.
<penguin42> yeh if you can't point to the wire that your packets slithering down, just dont believe it
<daftykins> yeah they've probably turned on wifi client isolation
<daftykins> pretty common setting on some stuff
<daftykins> why is any smart tosh getting hooked up in a workplace though? D:
<penguin42> so the boss can say 'Engage!'
<daftykins> ooh there's a wet trout with their name on :)
<daftykins> ah, exciting times in an hour from now - doing a late birthday surprise for a pal, i paid a couple of sci-fi TV show celebs on cameo.com to do birthday greeting videos for him - and they did an incredible job of it
<penguin42> which celebs?
<daftykins> two peeps that were in the 2003 Battlestar Galactica
<penguin42> ah
 * penguin42 hadn't heard of Cameo
<brobostigon> daftykins: my thinking exactly, after a little testing.
<daftykins> nah nor me, someone mentioned it by chance the Thursday before last - i knew a birthday was coming up so i jumped at the chance :D
<brobostigon> my answer right now, is having a usb wifi adaptor on my desktop boardcasting a seperate network, so both devices can see eachother and use the network underneath.
<daftykins> dunno what your workplace is like, but that breaks so many terms to me xD
<brobostigon> however i am trying to think of a more permanent answer.
<brobostigon> daftykins: atm they dont know about it, i plan to bring it up and whats needs changing to get it working.
<daftykins> don't know about the wifi isolation or the Google smart trash? :D
<penguin42> daftykins: Hehe some names I actually recognise on there
<daftykins> :)
<brobostigon> i am just trying to think if there is a way around the client isolation.
<daftykins> well you'd have to query the config of the wifi providing device(s)
<brobostigon> which already a set of extenders anyway.
<brobostigon> which is*
<daftykins> ugh
<brobostigon> exactly.
<daftykins> sounds like it's just a symptom of those then, usually a smart gadget would rely on broadcast use so those probably don't work at that layer
<daftykins> pretty common shortcoming
<brobostigon> agreed.
<penguin42> daftykins: I can imagine a version of cameo where it first gives you a deep-fake version of what you ask for, and if you dont think its good enough asks you to pay the real actor $n more
<daftykins> hahaha
#ubuntu-uk 2019-07-28
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<brobostigon> \o
<daftykins> waveform: broken connection
<zmoylan-pi> you'd think irc clients would be smart enough to stop after a while...
<m0nkey_> diddledan: awake?
