#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-01-09
<jjesse> meeting tonight right?
<gamerchick02> i got an email about it
<snap-l>  Yep, we'll get started in 7 minutes.
<gamerchick02> Downton Abbey is on, so i might not be paying much attention
<snap-l> gah, I tried to watch that show
<brousch> tivo it
<snap-l> Felt like a big load of "why am I watching this?"
<gamerchick02> it's bloody awesome
<gamerchick02> it's got Maggie Smith in it, so it's good. ;)
<snap-l> Even she couldn't assuage me
<gamerchick02> it's like a soap though. i like Doc Martin too. *shrug*
<snap-l> but we only watched one episode
<gamerchick02> i love Maggie Smith
<gamerchick02> oh you have to see the whole thing
<gamerchick02> i don't have a tivo, brousch
<gamerchick02> i have cable, but no dvr
<brousch> barbaric
<snap-l> I don't think I need an entire fruitcake to let me know I don't like fruitcake
 * gamerchick02 is cheap
<gamerchick02> good point, snap-l.
<brousch> do you knap your own knives from obsidian too?
<gamerchick02> i like it. it's my thing though
<gamerchick02> brousch, no.
<snap-l> OK, let's get started
<gamerchick02> i have a VCR.
<gamerchick02> ok
<snap-l> http://loco.ubuntu.com/meetings/ubuntu-michigan/312/detail/
<brousch> i'm riding th exercise bike. sorry if i smell funny
<snap-l> That's got the agenda
<snap-l> First order of business: moving the meeting
<brousch> what tme is it in budapest?
<snap-l> quite honestly, I broached this, but I think this time works best
<snap-l> Probably morning
<jjesse> i agree
<gamerchick02> Sundays aren't the best for me, but that's just... me
<snap-l> We seem to get enough people
<gamerchick02> true
<snap-l> I know there's always going to be people who can't make it, but I think we should keep this for a while until it really becomes a problem
<gamerchick02> i'll try to make as many as i can
<snap-l> awesome
<snap-l> Any further comments?
<gamerchick02> sounds silly but it conflicts with Masterpiece. :-P (if it were Sherlock, i would definitely not be here)
<snap-l> That's what laptops are for. ;)
<gamerchick02> true
<snap-l> Sheesh
<gamerchick02> i'm watching with the laptop. ;)
<gamerchick02> anyway, continue
<jjesse> this time works the best for me out of any
<gib> Just finished watching Once upon A Time. Ends at 9PM EST.
<tbemus> I like getting the reminders,  Thanks~
<snap-l> Yeah, I think the only regulars that really can't make it are Wolfger.
<tbemus> !
<gib> I'd prefer earlier since I get up early on weekdays.
<snap-l> Yeah, I'll make a habit of sending out the e-mail to let folks know
<snap-l> gib: Not bloody likely
<gamerchick02> i like the email though.
<jjesse> this works the best, any earlier cuts into bed time
<snap-l> but we can make the meetings briefer
<gamerchick02> bed time?
<jjesse> son's bed time
<gamerchick02> oh. sorry.
<gib> How does earlier than 9PM EST cut into bed time?
<snap-l> so, without further ado...
<snap-l> SWAG.
<jjesse> if i'm home i'm helping out w/ bed time
<jjesse> we have SWAG?
<gamerchick02> swag is always welcome.
<snap-l> brousch: You added it, please elaborate. ;)
<gib> OH, so you need to keep it later for a child's time to coordinate.  I get it.
<jjesse> yeah and i think snap-l is in the same boat
<brousch> we have a lifetime's worth of cds
<snap-l> jjesse: I don't have children
<brousch> stickers are much bette for handing out
<snap-l> brousch: Agreed
<gamerchick02> stickers are always welcome.
<jjesse> soryr
<jjesse> sorry
<brousch> bdtime++
<gib> So, what kind of stickers?
<brousch> ubuntu/kubuntu stickrs
<gamerchick02> nice!
<snap-l> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuAtConferences <- These are the ones that I'm aware of
<tbemus> +1
<brousch> http://shop.canonical.com/advanced_search_result.php?keywords=stickers&op=Search
<brousch> we have 3 or 4 canonical employees in th group. i would think they could hook us up
<snap-l> I'm not sure how we got them in the past
<snap-l> I know Ohio got a conference pack for OLF
<brousch> greg-g sent me 2 sheets. i gave them away in about 4 months
<brousch> one sticker at a time
<snap-l> I'll look into getting some swag
<snap-l> worst they can say is "buy it". :)
<brousch> i did
<brousch> shipping sucks
<snap-l> Yeah
<snap-l> but we do have Penguicon coming up
<snap-l> And some release parties I would assume. :)
<brousch> it seems like a blob of stickers would be a good thing for official locos
<snap-l> So, we have some things we'd be available for.
<gib> We can make some stuff at http://techshop.ws   they just opened a Detroit location.
<snap-l> gib: Why don't you look into that? There's info here on using the brand: http://design.canonical.com/the-toolkit/
<snap-l> Speaking of which, 12.04 is going to be released soon
<snap-l> And as is customary, we have release parties.
<tbemus> Do you know the date?  late April?
<snap-l> Not offhand
<brousch> snap-l: and a bug jam
<snap-l> Yep
<brousch> my annual trek to AA
<snap-l> The release of Ubuntu 12.04 is scheduled for April 26th.
<snap-l> I haven't heard when the gloal jam is scheduled
<snap-l> generally we coincide with that
<tbemus> Release party at Penguicon?
<gib> Well I'm just a beginner - I bet we can make some cheap really bad art that would be cool.
<snap-l> gib: There's some PDF files on there
<snap-l> Global Jam is 2-4 of March
<snap-l> Yeah, I think the release party will be at Penguicon again
<brousch> gib: we have a decent ubuntu-mi logo
<gib> Which files do we like?
<snap-l> gib: Why don't you take them and see what techchop could do wtih them?
<gib> I see some Commical t-shirts that look interesting.  But they may be copyrighted.
<snap-l> So, to recap, plan on some jam activity in March
<brousch> techshop sounds like i3
<snap-l> I'll ask jrwren if SRT will be available during that weekend in March
<gib> Simple designs: http://shop.canonical.com/product_info.php?products_id=718
<gib> Techshop is like i3 but they have a million dollars of equipment.
<snap-l> Any other business that anyone would like to discuss?
<gib> Humm:   https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DIYMarketing?action=AttachFile&do=view&target=UbuntuPoster-Virus.png
<snap-l> So, to recap:
<gamerchick02> uh, Downton Abbey is awesome?
<snap-l> 1) Meetings will stay on Sundays # 9pm
<snap-l> 2) I'll look into getting some swag from our events
<snap-l> 3) We'll start planning the global jam at SRT
<snap-l> 4) Release party is during Penguicon (anyone want to coordinate this? :) )
<brousch> we lost greg-g in ann arbor, but jrwren is still there
<snap-l> OK, I'll add those agenda items to the next meeting
<snap-l> Anythig else?
<gamerchick02> not from here.
<gib> Goodnight all  . . .
<snap-l> Next Meeting is Feb 5th
<snap-l> Thanks everyone!
<gamerchick02> cool!
<brousch> thank you snap-l
<gamerchick02> see you all then. or earlier, i hope. i've been bad about not being in irc but it seems dead in the evening.
<gamerchick02> i don't have internet at work. :(
<gib> So, we do this every week? ON Sunday ant 9PM EST?
<brousch> gib: month
<jjesse> every month
<gib> Oh, ok.
<jjesse> but we hang out here all the time
<gamerchick02> i'm off to finish Downton Abbey. see everyone tomorrow after work.
<gib> First Sunday?
<snap-l> gib: Generally, but this year it was on New Years Day
<gib> Okay.  See ya.  I've got this on my calendar now.
<snap-l> http://loco.ubuntu.com/teams/ubuntu-michigan/ical <- iCal feed
<brousch> gib: you could subscribe to the ubuntu-mi calendar, then it's put on for you
<snap-l> Has all of our events.
<gib> Yeah, I really prefer to control my calendar myself.
<gib> Well - bye bye for now  - zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
<brousch> heh
<snap-l> I guess I shouldn't tell him about copying events to your calendar.
<snap-l> Sheesh
<brousch> probably using some crusty open source calendar that doesn't handle subscriptions well
<snap-l> Also, ust once I'd like to not hear about tech shop
<snap-l> I swear, ever since it opened I hear about it at least once per encounter with Gib. :)
<brousch> hah, well i think we all have those projects we pimp all the time
<snap-l> Yeah, I'm guilty of that
<snap-l> But I'm to the point where every time it gets mentioned adds one more month of me ignoring it.
<snap-l> I think I'm up to most of 2013
<brousch> is it different from i3 or a competitor?
<brousch> i suppose you east siders have enough space to have several hackerspaces
<snap-l> I think it's something in partnership with Ford
<jjesse> is that what it is?  a hackerspace?
<jjesse> i seem to just ignore it
<brousch> from the description it looks like a hackerspace
<jjesse> so who watches downtown abby?
<jjesse> just found it on netflix
<brousch> is that like sister act?
<jjesse> no idea
<locodir-user> Anyone here?
<snap-l> locodir-user: Hello
<snap-l> locodir-user: We just finished the meeting, so it may be a little quiet here. :)
<jhansonxi> Tried to pay attention.  Was busy playing Shadowgrounds (Humble Bundle game).
<snap-l> no worries. ;)
<snap-l>  Note: Apparently JoDee is not used to me hitting on a drum practice pad
<snap-l> I believe the phrase she used was "I will kill you"
<_stink_> haha
<rick_h__> morning from Budapest
<rick_h__> sleep is good, but ugh still
<snap-l> g'morning
<rick_h__> afternoon
<snap-l> Heh
<snap-l> how's budapest?
<rick_h__> cool, finally starting code to cood
<rick_h__> code that is
<rick_h__> bah, sorry talking to 3 people at once
<snap-l> I bet it's pretty hectic over there.
<Wolfger> morning
<Wolfger> forgot all about last night's meeting. Actually was in bed by 9 :-p
<Wolfger> so we're keeping monthlies on Sunday at 9?
<snap-l> Wolfger: Looks that way.
<Wolfger> Well then I look forward to completely forgetting about many more.
<snap-l> Heh
<snap-l> Sorry
<Wolfger> Crappy thing is, this day/time was originally my idea
<Wolfger> oh well. Life changes, things go on.
<brousch> but sometimes THINGS DIE
<Wolfger> Got your e-mail reminder yesterday morning and was fully determined to show up for the meeting, too.
<Wolfger> That's it, brousch. Always look on the bright side of life.
 * Wolfger whistles
<brousch> damn you
<snap-l> Speaking of which, off to work.
<snap-l> Laterness.
<Wolfger> seeya
<brousch> always look on the bright side of death!/just before you draw your terminal breath
<Wolfger> Now you've got it! :-)
<brousch> now i've got it stuck in my head you mean
<Wolfger> Excellent
<snap-l> back
<snap-l> Also, Dropbox is awesome.
<brousch> snap-l++
<snap-l> synced my read / review files without too much trouble.
<snap-l> Gah, forgot the goofy little cable for my Sansa player
<brousch> snap-l: it's the same as many cameras
<snap-l> http://shop.sandisk.com/store/sdiskus/en_US/DisplayProductDetailsPage/CategoryID.11449200/productID.103565200
<snap-l> Well, that was fun.
<brousch> good
<snap-l> Had my computer do all sorts of interesting things (not display the theme properly)
<brousch> welcome to unity!
<snap-l> bah
<snap-l> I hope part of the precise cycle is fixing this wonkiness
<snap-l> Seriously want to love Unity, but it's getting on my nerves.
<brousch> ++
<brousch> s/getting/got/
<Wolfger> Unity has already converted tjagoda to KDE... come join the fun
<snap-l> I'm not ready for that yet.
<brousch> Wolfger: and me
<snap-l> I'm going to hold out for 12.04
<snap-l> If I feel it's not moved in the right direction, I'm bailing as well
<Wolfger> I'm actually very happy with KDE under 32-bit Ocelot
<Wolfger> much better than the last two times I tried to come back to KDE
<ColonelPanic001> <3 KDE
<ColonelPanic001> I approve of the increased discussion of KDE in this channel
<brousch> it feels so much more mature than gnome3 and unity
<brousch> like everything you need is there and you can tweak it to your liking
<Wolfger> Though I'm going to have to bail on Rekonq. It's a much better browser than it used to be, but it crashes too often.
<brousch> gnome3/unity always feels like a feature isn't there, or if it is you have to use it just how the author wants you to
<Wolfger> It does suck less resources than FF or Chromium, though. At least, it seems that way. Haven't done a true comparison.
<Wolfger> brousch: that has always been my problem with Gnome... You have to use it the way somebody else wants you to :-p
<brousch> well it's not a problem as long you agree with the dev
<Wolfger> Hey, any other WeatherSpark users here?
<Wolfger> Seems like there should be a forecast for amount of precipitation, but all I'm seeing is % chance of precipitation.
<ColonelPanic001> yeah
<ColonelPanic001> I use it
<ColonelPanic001> see nothing there about rain
<Wolfger> I'm looking at "40% chance of light snow" on Friday... Sure would be nice to know what "light snow" is...
<Wolfger> I mean, I consider 1-2 inches to be light, but there's a huge difference traffic-wise between "no accumulation" and 2 inches
<ColonelPanic001> heh, yeah
<snap-l> The thing about Unity / GNOME3 is that there are lots of ways to tweak things, and they're all inside dconf / gconf
<snap-l> Wolfger: Any forecast that's more than 24 hours is highly suspect.
<snap-l> hence the chance of snow, but no real numbers to back it up
<brousch> that's like tweaking Windows by hacking the registry
<brousch> i <3 linux
<brousch> nepomuk has had both CPUs at 100% all morning while it indexes, but my performance is not affected at all
<ColonelPanic001> I often just turn that off. I know where my files are. That's why I have directories
<brousch> i want to give it a try
<brousch> gnome has that zeitgeist thing
<Wolfger> Nepomuk does a decent job of staying out of the way of real work.... only issue I have with it running at 100% is the heat
<Wolfger> it's especially bad (or used to be) when indexing NTFS.
<brousch> well i think the fans in this MBP are running all the time, so heat isn't an issue
<snap-l> brousch: MBP is terrible for heat dissipation
<snap-l> at least the older ones were
<brousch> this one keeps my hands warm in the winter
<snap-l> when I had one, it felt like I was BBQing my nads if I didn't have a lap desk
<brousch> dissipates through the aluminum
<snap-l> I find the thinkpads are much more efficient for keeping cool
<Wolfger> Since installing Ocelot, I have not had any CPU heat issues yet... Of course, I also don't have my NTFS automounting in FSTAB yet either.
<brousch> yeah, no heat issues with this, but again, i think the fans are always on
<brousch> which means i get about 75% of the battery life it had unser OSX
<brousch> good enough
<nullspace> snap-l: that doctoro talk has me totally uninterested in tablet devices
<nullspace> thanks, you saved me $500
<brousch> heh
<brousch> a friend of mine has hacked debian onto his $99 nook simple touch
<brousch> eink device
<snap-l> nullspace: you're welcome.
<Wolfger> That Doctorow talk has me... completely unphased about my purchase of a Kindle Touch. It's still awesome. Looking forward to a better world, though.
<brousch> i had almost forgotten just how much i missed the MBP touchpad
<brousch> such a beautiful thing
<snap-l> cd
<snap-l> bah
<brousch> mp3
<krondor> no scrollback, doctorow talk link?
<Wolfger> krondor: the link was on G+
<Wolfger> which I can't access again now that I'm back at work :-p
<krondor> Wolfger:  Thanks :) I'll find it
<snap-l> krondor: It's been all over the net
<Wolfger> I just googled it
<Wolfger> http://goo.gl/H5AKB
<Wolfger> a 28c3 talk
<krondor> oh yeah I read the transcript, didn't watch the video good stuff
<Wolfger> "I came across your resume as your experience is relevant to one of my current openings" .... Liar!
<Wolfger> "Required Skills:    3+ years experience supporting open source email at an enterprise level (10K + users)"  <-- I do not have that requirement. Why are you bothering me?
<snap-l> Wolfger: You don't support open source email at an enterprise level? :)
<nullspace> Wolfger: I don't see e-readers replacing general PCs
<nullspace> books maybe but not a computer
<brousch> tablets could replace laptops for most people
<brousch> maybe even home PCs
<brousch> if printing were easy, i could replace my dad, grandma, and FIL's cpmputers with a tablet
<ColonelPanic001> yeah, we had a Asus Transformer here with the keyboard
<ColonelPanic001> if not for code, I easily could use it for 90% of stuff
<ColonelPanic001> 90%+
<ColonelPanic001> plus, it pops off and suddenly is a tablet. It's pretty awesome
<brousch> right, coding and printing
<ColonelPanic001> I very rarely print, so for me just code
<ColonelPanic001> but yeah, could be an issue. Never tried printing from android
<brousch> supposedly you can go through google cloud print now
<brousch> but that requires you have a Windows or OSX computer sitting around that handles the print sharing for you
<ColonelPanic001> lame
<brousch> indeed
<brousch> though it's kind of cool that i can print to the big printers at work from anywhere
<ColonelPanic001> there's a big color plotter here
<ColonelPanic001> I kind of want to use it for something. anything
<ColonelPanic001> preferably lolcats
<ColonelPanic001> just find a good "OH HAI" one, hang it by the door in the morning
<krondor> brousch:  yeah cloud print works kind of well actually, but you do need that print server.
<brousch> i have not actually tried it with android, but it worked well with my chromebook
<Wolfger> Resolved: Technology should be an aid, not a crutch.
<Wolfger> We have tech here at the plant to assist people in doing things better/faster/efficiently, but when the tech fails they act like they suddenly can't do their job at all.
<snap-l> Wolfger: Yep
<snap-l> That wouldn't surprise me in the least.
<brousch> it's frightening how much arguing with apple-lovers is like arguing with religious people
<Blazeix> s/apple/$OPERATING_SYSTEM/
<greg-g> s/$OPERATING_SYSTEM-lovers/festishizers/
<Wolfger> s/religious people/religious zealots/
<snap-l> s/.*/anyone
<snap-l> Give peace a chance, maaaaaaaan
<Wolfger> that's all we are saying
<greg-g> you might call me a dreamer
<Wolfger> Dream On
<snap-l> Dream on
<snap-l> AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
<brousch> you're right. i may be drawing that comparison because those are pretty much the only people i argue with
<snap-l> buffer #ubuntuone
<snap-l> bah
<Blazeix> ooh, asus just unveiled a 1920x1200 resolution tablet...
<Blazeix> that's tempting
<brousch> wow
<brousch> crazy
<brousch> how big is it?
<Blazeix> 10.1"
<Blazeix> http://www.engadget.com/2012/01/09/asus-eee-pad-memo-me171-me370t-and-high-end-transformer-prime-t/
<brousch> geez
<brousch> these things really need an integrated IDE
<brousch> create apps right on the device
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-01-10
<snap-l> Hey all,
<snap-l> who still has a link to the old Ubuntu calendar?
<jjesse> hi
<brousch> snap-l: the old?
<brousch> i use http://loco.ubuntu.com/teams/ubuntu-michigan/ical
<snap-l> yeah, the Google Calendar version
<snap-l> g'morning
<rick_h__> party
<snap-l> How are the sprints going?
<brousch> halloooo
<snap-l> Hallllllooooooo world.
<Wolfger> morning
<snap-l> Did you know Dell has an auction site?
<snap-l> http://dellauctions.com
<snap-l> Some older machines, but interesting nonetheless if someone wants some hardware
<snap-l> friend got a decent little desktop they're using for a MAME machine on there.
<Wolfger> snap-l: I don't know about a link to the Gcal us-mi loco calendar, but I can probably get the link since I have it imported to my personal calendar. Why?
<snap-l> Wolfger: The MUG Meeting still shows up at ESD
<snap-l> wondering if it could be changed in case someone is still using that old calendar.
<snap-l> or have the event removed altogether.
<Wolfger> Sure. What should I change it to?
<snap-l> 32737 W 12 Mile Rd
<snap-l> Farmington Hills, MI 48334
<snap-l> Thanks! I deleted my link to it.
<snap-l> (like an idiot. ;) )
<Wolfger> Hmm. That's odd.
<Wolfger> I got a reminder 2 weeks ago for the meeting (which was rescheduled, but not on that calendar). But now I don't seem to have that calendar anymore.
<snap-l> Hmmm
<Wolfger> Yeah, it's gone.
<Wolfger> Maybe greg-g deleted it?
<snap-l> Possibly
<snap-l> got a note from someone that it wasn't changed.
<snap-l> Maybe they had an old link :)
<Wolfger> well reply to their note and ask them for it :-)
<snap-l> Heh
<brousch> ah, beautiful. i found instructions for getting dropbox public link with Dolphin without using nautilus
<nullspace> brousch: there are some python scripts to control dropbox
<brousch> nullspace: this integrates directly into the right-click menu in dolphin, so it works like nautilus with dropbox
<brousch> it's just a .desktop file
<snap-l> you can also use the command-line, if you so choose.
<snap-l> it's pretty simple, actually.
<snap-l> That said, I do loves me some file-manager integration
<snap-l> http://openmetalcast.com/2012/01/10/open-metalcast-episode-38-destination-unknown/
<brousch> snap-l: the .desktop file just uses the dropbox command line
<Wolfger> right-click dropbox in Dolphin? Cool!
<brousch> Wolfger: http://forums.dropbox.com/topic.php?id=12034&replies=2#post-76494
<brousch> piecemeal instructions, but not too bad. first post tells you what file to make where, second post tells you what to put in the file, third post changes "s to `s. then it all works well (for me)
<brousch> oooh, nice "The --no-site-packages flag is deprecated; it is now the default behavior."
<Wolfger> Interesting. In German, a black eye is a blue eye...
<Wolfger> --no-site-packages?
<Wolfger> what's that do?
<brousch> python virtualenv
<brousch> that flag excludes any python modules that are installed locally so you have a nice clean virtualenv
<brousch> basically i used it every single time, so it's nice that it;s default now
<Wolfger> Oh boy... here comes all the Ubuntu TV hype...
<rick_h__> :)
<jjesse> more than yesterday?
<brousch> hm, just discovered this MBP keyboard does not have a print screen button
<Wolfger> jjesse: well, I didn't see any Ubuntu TV questions on AskUbuntu yesterday. Plenty coming today.
<jjesse> ah it was all i saw on google+ yesterday
<Wolfger> of course that could just be me not paying close attention yesterday
<Wolfger> I didn't learn about Ubuntu TV until late in the day
<jjesse> google+, twitter and Facebook seemed pretty full of things
<snap-l> I wish them all the best re: Ubuntu TV
<snap-l> frankly can't muster any give-a-damn about it.
<snap-l> (don't watch that much TV)
<rick_h__> but but but :P
<rick_h__> it's the fuition of the unity idea
<Wolfger> insofaras TV's are becoming computers, I'm glad that Ubuntu is out there trying to make better TV's than what will surely come out of other sectors
<Wolfger> and I like the idea that (perhaps) we can do away with TV's altogether and just watch shows, sports, and movies from our monitors
<snap-l> This is likely not something new for anyone in this channel, but it's interesting: http://shop.oreilly.com/product/9781593273897.do?imm_mid=07bd40
<snap-l> Should get jcastro to go into apoplectic fits. :)
<Wolfger> Love the Popeye motif
<Wolfger> Oooh... O'Reilly dotd is Git
<snap-l> Yeah, once the signal is digital, it's a perfect match for the computer
<snap-l> And I already consume a few shows digital-only because I can't be bothered with cable (Daily Show, and Doctor Who)
<nullspace> snap-l: wait ubuntu TV? didn't anyone learn from google TV?
<snap-l> nullspace: Google TV isn't a failure yet.
<brousch> google is supposedly trying it again
<nullspace> fail fail fail again
<snap-l> Well, it's about breaking into a market
<snap-l> and making a device that's compelling
<snap-l> Although I saw a tweet that this is about finding a hardware partner more than a finished device
<snap-l> Which makes some sense
<snap-l> I really would love to know what Mark's 5-10 year goals are, because they have to be fascinating
<snap-l> Shuttleworth reminds me of mini-Jobs.
<brousch> to crush gates' and jobs' skulls beneath his astronaut boot
<snap-l> Friend got me Puscifer's latest album "Conditions of my Parole".
<snap-l> Highly recommend it for those of the Maynard James Keenan project bent.
<snap-l> Kind of like Pigface in that it's a rotating artst roster.
<brousch> i don't know pucifer, maynard james keenan, or pigface
<brousch> i assume you are just mumbling incoherently
<snap-l> brousch: Maynard James Keenan: Lead Singer for Tool and A Perfect Circle
<snap-l> brousch: Puscifer: A band with Maynard James Keenan as the lead, with a rotating roster of musicians
<snap-l> brousch: Pigface: Same concept of rotating musicians, but playing INdustrial music
<snap-l> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pigface
<brousch> bah, tool
<snap-l> brousch: It's not very tool-like
<snap-l> Also, what's wrong with TOol?
<brousch> we've covered this before
<snap-l> I thought we convinced you before that you're wrong? :)
<brousch> i do not like tool snap-l-am
<brousch> no, you convinced me you're a bunch of tools :P
<snap-l> Do you like A Perfect Circle?
<snap-l> or did you not get that far?
<brousch> i do not like it
<brousch> i think it's mostly the singer
<snap-l> Man-o-man
<snap-l> How about Porcupine Tree?
<brousch> i do not know it
<snap-l> (not related to Tool at all)
<snap-l> Search for Porcupine Tree: Time Flies
<snap-l> and tell me if you like that
<brousch> i only listen to openmetalcast music now
<snap-l> I find that extremely hard to believe. :)
<snap-l> OK, did you like Carthasy?
<brousch> i'm a few episodes behind at the moment
<snap-l> It was an interview episode
<brousch> what happens is that i listen to an episode, note the songs i liked, then go to jamendo/whatever, listen to all of their other music, and download what i likedto incorporate into my local playlists
<brousch> sometimes that takes a while and i fall behind
<snap-l> no worries
<snap-l> I should have a catch-up episode
<snap-l> no new music, just different tracks
<brousch> heh
<snap-l> you're not the only one that's said they're a few episodes behind
<brousch> interestingly that means that i would listen more if you'd not put so many good ones on each episode
<snap-l> hah
<snap-l> Maybe episode 40 will be a catch-up
<brousch> what i need is my generic list/queue service so i could push them up there and not worry about losing them
<snap-l> There's only so much I can do
<snap-l> although, having a music recommendation service might be neat.
<brousch> the other problem is while i'm listeing to jamendo i see a song with an interesting tag so i go listen to all the other songs with that tag and find good stuff
<snap-l> Download the tracks, put them in Audacity, and you too can have a show.;)
<brousch> i refer the best finds back to you after making sure they have not appeared on omc
<snap-l> I appreciate that.
<snap-l> Frankly since Jamendo is borked it's getting a little harder to find things.
<snap-l> Last two shows have been 100% Bandcamp
<snap-l> bandcamp usually has a higher signal to noise ratio, but there's still some bands on there that are just awful.
<brousch> what is broken on jamendo?
<snap-l> New albums aren't showing up nearly as often as they used to
<snap-l> U used to be able to browse Jamendo and get several pages of new albums
<snap-l> now, I've gone several weeks with only a trickle
<brousch> that was weird. adb was using 75% of my CPU and i have never even used it on this computer
<snap-l> ad block plus?
<brousch> android debug bridge
<snap-l> Ah, wasn't familiar with it.
<brousch> well you should be!
<snap-l> Wll, I will be, once I'm doing Android Development.
<snap-l> Sheesh
<rick_h__> how we all doing?
<snap-l> Doing OK so far, yourslef?
<brousch> rick_h__: very well, thanks
<rick_h__> tired, late work day. didn't get done until almost 8pm
<rick_h__> but relaxing time
<brousch> that's why it's a sprint!
<rick_h__> party on!
<snap-l> What's the group-think on Pro Puppet? Good / bad /awful?
<snap-l> http://www.apress.com/9781430230571
<rick_h__> meh
<brousch> Salt
<snap-l> brousch: I understand Meh, but not "Salt"
<brousch> http://saltstack.org/
<snap-l> Interesting
<snap-l> I love that there's no longer just naming conventions for projects, but whole naming-ecosystems
<snap-l> salt has "grains"
<nullspace> see and here I thought it was a way to easily salt your hashes
<nullspace> snap-l: crap I just realized I didn't play "we three kings come" from kamelot before or during christmas last year
<snap-l> Howdy
<_stink_> yo
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-01-11
<snap-l> yo yo yo
<waldo323> heya
<snap-l> G'morning
<rick_h__> party
<snap-l> That it is. :)
<snap-l> Apparently we have this "winter storm watch" in effect.
<snap-l> that does not please me.
<rick_h__> ruh roh
<snap-l> Thursday: "Cloudy with showers likely. Snow showers likely in the afternoon. Highs 39 to 43. North winds 5 to 15 mph...becoming southeast in the afternoon. Chance of precipitation 70 percent"
<snap-l> I hope it zags, but I'm not too hopeful
<snap-l> It's all the damn snowboarders asking for snow
<rick_h__> seems a bit warm for snow
<snap-l> Yeah
<Wolfger> it won't be warm thursday
<Wolfger> morning
<Wolfger> oh, forecast changed... it will be warm thursday :-p
<rick_h__> lol
<Wolfger> 90% chance of rain Thursday turning to 90% chance of snow Thursday night and Friday
<rick_h__> crap, no snow
<Wolfger> actually, 90% chance of rain starts tonight :-p
<Wolfger> Kiss our unseasonably nice weather goodbye
<Wolfger> hey Arduinees, check out the DotD
<brousch> wow, that was weird. my clock suddenly switched to UTC
<Wolfger> Excellent. My plan is starting to work already.
<brousch> u r 1337
<snap-l> Yay new keyboard at work.
<Wolfger> \o/
<snap-l> Finally I can be rid of the J shaped enter key that plagues my entire existence.
<rick_h__> woot!
<Wolfger> Wow. That's one powerful key.
<snap-l> Wolfger: You have no idea
<snap-l> picture, if you will, the oft-used |\ key
<snap-l> now, look at your keyboard and note the position of said key
<snap-l> is it right above the Enter yet?
<snap-l> key?
<Wolfger> But of course
<snap-l> OK
<snap-l> Now, picture if you will an enter key that is essentially Enter and the \| key combined
<Wolfger> Well then where would I put my |\ key?
<snap-l> and take the luxurious space that backspace takes up on your keyboard, and put the \| key there
<Wolfger> insane
<snap-l> so you have half-BS, hald \|
<snap-l> Yes
<snap-l> Now imagine trying to type ps -ef | grep
<snap-l> and realize that any pipe operation will likely hit enter before it hits pipe.
<snap-l> and now you know.
<Wolfger> and knowing is half the battle!
 * Wolfger suddenly recalls that snap-l is now part of COBRA
<snap-l> heh
<snap-l> I have a while before I have to take COBRA
<snap-l> hopefully my benes will take effect before I have to use it
<snap-l> hate hate hate paying COBRA>
<n0p> morning all, anyone heading to codemash?
<snap-l> n0p: I blinked when the tickets went on sale
<snap-l> so, no
<n0p> ah, yeah
<n0p> actually, it went quick, but not as quick as they claim
<n0p> we got our tickets like 2 hours after they went on sale. i think eventbright over reserved tickets as people clieked through
<n0p> snap-l: did you go last year?
<n0p> year(s)
<brousch> i think rick_h__ went last year
<snap-l> No, I've never been. rick_h__ went last year.
<brousch> Wolfger: i blogged the Dropbox public link in Dolphin thing http://clusterbleep.net/blog/2012/01/11/getting-a-dropbox-public-link-in-kde-using-dolphin/
<n0p> yeah, remember him mentioning it, i've never been, sounds happening
<n0p> lots of .net though :-/
<brousch> i think jrwren has also gone
<n0p> 3 of the 5 javascript ones are scheduled for the same timeslot
<n0p> i'll watch for him
<snap-l> That doesn't surprise me. ;)
<brousch> they'll pop in here now that we've paged them ;)
<rick_h__> yea, I spoke last year
<rick_h__> it's good stuff
<rick_h__> yea, they're trying to be cross language, lots of ruby and such as well
<rick_h__> a few of us doing Python stuff
<rick_h__> lots of mobile these days
<n0p> yea, i think i saw only 1 python (mark's)
<brousch> holy crap that's a lot of talks
<rick_h__> I think there's another but not sure
<rick_h__> but yea, when I spoke I was part of the "token" python force
<rick_h__> so they can put it on the website
<brousch> http://codemash.org/Sessions#A+Few+of+My+Favorite+(Python)+Things
<brousch> and http://codemash.org/Sessions#Automated+Python+Test+Frameworks+for+Hardware+Validation+and+Verification
<n0p> ah, two!
<brousch> and Mark Ramm's
<rick_h__> taking over the world!
<brousch> so 3 python talks
<n0p> er, yeah, 3
<snap-l> It's almost a quorum.
<rick_h__> mike is cool
<n0p> hope security is tight
<rick_h__> sweet, both of those are people I know from PyOhio
<n0p> rick_h__: are you still on the other side of the globe?
<brousch> also one with ironpython http://codemash.org/Sessions#Dynamic+.NET+Demystified
<brousch> and this one has a lot of python http://codemash.org/Sessions#Polyglot+Programming%3a+The+Power+of+Hybridization
<brousch> so there might be 5 python talks!
<Wolfger> Does IronPython really count? ;-)
<n0p> wow, and they seem to have their own timeslots
<Wolfger> brousch: I see what you did there (with the blog post)
<brousch> oh man, that last talk is bruce eckle
<Wolfger> It's all "hey, look at this cool thing you can do! (oh, and by the way use me as a referral to sign up for dropbox plz)"
<brousch> eckel
<brousch> Wolfger: make it so!
<snap-l> I have never seen Bruce Eckel talk
<snap-l> I quite liked Thinking in Java, though
<rick_h__> n0p: yea, in hungary still
<snap-l> there was a Hands on Java CD that I liked.
<rick_h__> working like mad to fix crap
<brousch> rick_h__: are you saying that launchpad is crap?
<rick_h__> brousch: I never said that :)
<snap-l> brousch: Did you stop beating your wife? :)
<jjesse> he just said everything written by someone besides him in launchpad is crapy
<Wolfger> strictly speaking, he only acknowledged that there is some crap in launchpad... we are left to guess the percentage content
<snap-l> http://askubuntu.com/questions/94548/why-is-there-no-recycle-bin
<Wolfger> Yeah....
<Wolfger> Now this, I would never have expected to see: http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/ngm/photo-contest/2011/entries/79152/view/
<snap-l> Wolfger: Why not? :)
<Wolfger> magnifying glasses are only used to set fires by young children who aren't allowed to set them any other way.
<Wolfger> Who am I kidding? I'm just jealous Michigan is too far North and too overcast for that to be an option. :-)
<snap-l> ;)
<brousch> i'm getting worse at multitasking in my old age. i just helped 3 different people in 3 different programs and now i've totally forgotten what i was doing before that
<snap-l> GTD. ;)
<n0p> hmm, sounds like an old job.. when that happened, i'd just look busy for a minute or two until i got interrupted again
<snap-l> Then you'll spend more time thinking about what you should be doing. ;)
<brousch> n0p: that is one of my usual tactics
<n0p> anyone else experience any type of Internet outage about an hour ago?
<snap-l> n0p: not to my knowledge.
<n0p> we got an alert, but our cacti graphs all look fine
<n0p> then i saw this https://longrep.ly/r/58dbd508
<snap-l> Are your monitors in Cacti as well?
<n0p> heh, no, newrelic is where our alert came from
<snap-l> I'd point the finger there, then. :)
<n0p> yeah, thats what i was thinking too, no support calls came in either
<n0p> but saw the mailchimp thing and though, hmm
<Wolfger> did the interwebs dies momentarily while they installed the not-yet-officially-approved SOPA softwares?
<snap-l> Might have been in the data center.
<snap-l> We used to use Watchmouse for our monitoring. Was handy because they used data centers all over the world
<Wolfger> government kill switch test run
<snap-l> though it sucked when you'd be pinged for some error that was happening in shitty-internetville.
<Wolfger> PS, sky is falling.
<Wolfger> :-D
<Wolfger> Wow. Kroger.com is a truly awful website.
<Wolfger> Lots of links pointing to a FAQ that doesn't exist
<Wolfger> horrible search results
<Wolfger> guess I will go to the store to ask my question
<brousch> oh man, that reminds me. at one of the grwebdev meetings someone pulled up the meijer.com web site as an example of a poor user interface. after a minute or two of saying how bad it is one of the meijer.com devs in the room spoke up
<Wolfger> LOL
<Wolfger> anybody in here a Kroger web dev?
<brousch> i haven't seen her since
<n0p> brousch: oh, were you at the github drinkup?
<brousch> yes
<n0p> doh!, should have looked you up, me too
<brousch> i didn't realize you are west mi
<n0p> not, it was a last minute thing
<brousch> ah, well shoot
<brousch> who'd you talk to?
<n0p> dunno, once we got there, we ate and talked to a few a2 guys, then we decided we should talk to new people and did, but then had to leave
<n0p> too loud to actually hear names
<n0p> fun place though
<brousch> yeah, it was pretty loud
<brousch> i think i'm learning to lip read by ging to all these loud bars after meetings
<snap-l> brousch: Keep it up and you'll need to learn sign language. ;)
<Wolfger> Why do people talk about "sign language". Most signs in the US are in English. ;)
<Wolfger> Man, it must be a slow day if I'm stretching that far for a joke.
<Wolfger> Wow. http://www.cnn.com/2012/01/11/world/asia/china-microsoft-factory/index.html?hpt=hp_t2
<brousch> Wolfger: that was a poor joke
<snap-l> Wolfger: That's unreal
<snap-l> df
<snap-l> feh
<brousch> diving back into django to help out some folks
<Blazeix> i notice you wait until rick_h__ is overseas before you mention that.
<Blazeix> out of punching range
<rick_h__> what's up?
<rick_h__> drinking with the LP guys atm so wheee
<rick_h__> wtf! django?
<_stink_> rick_h__ has an "ssh rick@mitechie.com punch_brousch -m 'django???'" alias ready to go
<rick_h__> lol, awesome
<_stink_> rick_h__: which country are you in again?
<rick_h__> hungary
<rick_h__> in budapest
<_stink_> dang
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-01-12
<snap-l> Can someone please get the room for tonight. I can't make CHC this evening
<Blazeix> snap-l: do you know if we have it? there are currently people in there.
<snap-l> I thought we did, but not sure offhand.
<rick_h__> crap on the CHC
<rick_h__> yea, we've got the room from now on as far as I know
<rick_h__> Blazeix: snap-l  ^
<rick_h__> just fyi
<snap-l> rick_h__: OK, cool
<snap-l> Wanted to be there, but something came up (nothing critical, just needed my attention).
<Wolfger> :-p
<Wolfger> Oh, sorry. Good morning!
<Wolfger> I was in scrollback, and thought rick_h__ was drinking with LP guys right now, hence the :-p
<rick_h__> lunch is getting progressively worse through the week
<snap-l> rick_h__: That good, eh?
<rick_h__> snap-l: cool, yea I should be good to get it after this
<snap-l> or are you getting used to HUngarian food?
<rick_h__> travel the rest of the year is dead, so won't be gone much
<rick_h__> meh, it's a bit off, but normally close enough
<rick_h__> eating out has been pretty good stuff
<rick_h__> but the hotel stuff started out really nice and maybe I'm getting bored with some of the repitition
<snap-l> I think that's it
<rick_h__> plus just getting tired....ugh
<snap-l> That too
<tjagoda> Bork bork bork
<snap-l> Well, there is also so much new food you can take before it becomes old food
<rick_h__> dammit, I want my food, my bed, my car, my ...
<snap-l> on an unrelated note: am I the only person who, when faced with downloadinf from Archive.org, has his heart sink a little?
<rick_h__> what's archive.org?
<rick_h__> :)
<snap-l> DOn't get me wrong: great service
<snap-l> but for being the canonical source for a lot of things, their in-file metadata is atrocious,
<Wolfger> wtf is going on with Penguicon this year? http://www.penguicon.org/CMS/?page_id=178
<snap-l> It's like a library that has the dewey decimal system numbers printed on the shelves, and then rips out the ISBN number from the back cover and (c) page.
<snap-l> Wolfger: They're looking to get Bruce Schneier, but he may be traveling the same weekend.
<Wolfger> snap-l: that would be awesome
<snap-l> Yeah, he makes me dream in firewalls
<snap-l> and want to curl up with a nice warm fluffy blanket and cower in fear.
<Wolfger> LOL
<snap-l> He's like the grizzled veteran who tells campfire stories that you later find out are all-too-real.
<snap-l> like "There's really a boogey man under my bed, and he answers to the name of 'Earl'"
<Wolfger> well, if we don't get him, I blame tjagoda
<tjagoda> A reasonable recourse
<tjagoda> Good to see that they've had more website success than I did =P
<tjagoda> Wolfger such order ribbons that say "I blame every wrong with this convention on tjagoda"
<tjagoda> It would be both personally offensive and hilarious
<Wolfger> Too long
<Wolfger> I'll just go with "It's all tjagoda's fault"
<tjagoda> I saw I took a small scaving in Matt's blog post announcing that web site
<Wolfger> Did you? Guess I didn't read too closely
<tjagoda> I imagine the scaving is larger behind closed doors =P
<Wolfger> I just said, "oh, website's up, cool!"
<Wolfger> then promptly discovered there's nothing there anyway
<tjagoda> I discovered during my penguicon management tenure that my management should not leave the business arena.
<tjagoda> And also that I'm not passionate enough about the non-tech side of penguicon to deal with that many strong personalities enjoyably. =P
<Wolfger> Yeah, big diff between managing employees and managing a diverse group of volunteers
<Wolfger> highly opinionated volunteers
<Wolfger> who may or may not respect your authority to varying degrees
<tjagoda> I did better when working with mostly tech people inside programming
<tjagoda> I did much worse when I had to foster friendship and motivation amidst the fans =P
<tjagoda> PR != tjagoda
<Wolfger> the fen
<Wolfger> see? You can't even get the lingo right
<Wolfger> tsk
<Wolfger> you need to turn in your red shirt now
<tjagoda> http://nooooooooooooooo.com/
<Wolfger> and no more JoCo songs for you, either
<snap-l> and while you're at it, turn in your Ubuntu laptops.
<tjagoda> NEVAR.
<tjagoda> I keep looking at the 15 inch system76 glossy and wanting to buy it
<tjagoda> then pricing it
<tjagoda> and wimping out at the sight of thousands
<tjagoda> ohi
<brousch> ahoy
<brousch> i'm giving up on stirgi. it's not a problem until the index is over 1GB. t that point it slows everything down
<tjagoda> I like reading the System76 support forums and laughing at people who buy a s76 and then feel the urge to complain that it isn't compatible with every known linux distro on the face of the earth.
<tjagoda> "I have installed Ubuntu 11.10 on my USB hard drive.  Everything seems  OK.  But I have a couple of questions. 1)The first item on the task menu  (on the very left) is "Installation".  I think my Ubuntu installation  is completed.  Why would we need it? 2)I cannot find the standard Unix  command prompt.  I need it to execute some commands, such as adduser,  chmod, etc.  3)It seems I cannot write files to /etc/var/www folder  beca
<tjagoda> I hate when my desktop web server on m usb external drive doesn't have its standard unix command line from which to type my numerous chmod commands.
<snap-l> tjagoda: That last sentence doesn't make sense to me.
<tjagoda> Good.
<tjagoda> It shouldn't make sense to anyone.
<snap-l> Anyone know offhand how to get vim to indent comments?
<snap-l> if I do >> over a block with comments, it doesn't indent the comment along with it
<snap-l> drives me batty.
<snap-l> Also, you should be listening to this: http://www.jamendo.com/en/album/103573
<Wolfger> snap-l: What exactly is your problem? I don't understand. If I type >> on a line, it indents
<Wolfger> also, I should have a job that allows me to listen to that (or anything else) while I work :-p
<Wolfger> also tried >> on a (perl) comment line and it indents
<snap-l> Wolfger: They have Jamendo blocked too?
<snap-l> Sheesh
<snap-l> Damn repressive regime
<Wolfger> well, I don't know if they block it, but the probably do. I know I can't play music on my laptop speakers and earbuds are frowned upon
<Wolfger> so did you figure out why your vim is borked?
<Wolfger> or why I'm misunderstanding your problem? ;-)
<snap-l> Nah, I didn't figure it out, but I'm not worried about it.
<snap-l> Might be because the yaml file I'm editing doesn't understand indenting # blah lines
<snap-l> Also, anywhere that prevents people from using headphones at work is not somewhere I want to work.
<snap-l> seriously, that's one of my interview questions
<snap-l> You don't have to let me use streaming or anything like that, that's understandable, but if I'm in a cubicle, and can't listen to music / non-office-chatter, I will go insane.
<krondor> Wolfger: that's evil, I would go insane sitting there listening to 'Corporate Accounts Payable, Nina Speaking. Just a Moment'
<snap-l> krondor: I think it's supervisor-specific
<snap-l> when I darkened Chrysler's halls, they weren't strict about it
<snap-l> Then again, we had the lenient German overlords instead of the more strict Italian overlords. ;)
 * krondor tries to picture lenient Germans ...
<Wolfger> Heh
<Wolfger> I think it may be more localized than the overlord level
<Wolfger> In fact, it was also many bosses ago, and the current bosses might be ok with it, but nobody else listens to music, so I'm reluctant to be the one to push the barrier
<Wolfger> I have music in my head, anyway
<Wolfger> Currently, some selections from Despicable Me
<snap-l> heh
<snap-l> Currently listening to The Final Cut: Primal Understanding
<snap-l> if there's ever a song that would get me speeding, this is it.
<snap-l> The rest of the album, notsomuch
<Wolfger> I think the fact that this headline even exists underscores the American obesity epidemic: "Don't freak out - Eatocracy reassures Twinkie lovers that bankruptcy won't kill the icon."
<ColonelPanic001> heh
<Wolfger> also, the sad state of American journalism
<ColonelPanic001> How else will I know who Britney Spears is married to this week?
<Wolfger> She should just marry Kim Kardasian, and then the whole internets will explode
<krondor> Wolfger: Despicable Me++ that soundtrack surprised me for a kids movie
<snap-l> Wolfger: The time I saw more coverage of whether or not Peter Jackson was going to direct the Hobbit Movie on CNN over some other crisis happening at the time is when I determined commmercial news stations were junk.
<snap-l> http://www.reddit.com/r/javascript/comments/odxh9/why_has_javascript_gotten_so_popular_recently/
<snap-l> Interesting that very few people can agree on one single reason
<snap-l> I think Node, v8, jQuery, and such have helped tremendously
<Wolfger> snap-l: Hey now... The Hobbit is important stuff!
<snap-l> but there's one thing that stands out in my mind as the biggest reason: the death if IE6
<tjagoda> wow
<Wolfger> regarding javascript... What, you mean it wasn't this popular years ago when you couldn't even mention computers without somebody saying AJAX-this or AJAX-that?
<tjagoda> Crunchy big box meal from taco bell
<tjagoda> thats a lot of food.
<Wolfger> tjagoda++
<snap-l> Wolfger: Well, it seems there's a lot of folks using Javascript, or expressing plans to use it
<snap-l> 10 years ago, nobody would have taken something like Node.js seriously.
<snap-l> Now, it's all the rage.
<Wolfger> Is it really *popular*, or just trendy/buzzwordy?
<Wolfger> like when AJAX burst onto the scene and suddenly every employer wanted somebody with 2-5 years experience in AJAX, even if the employers really had no idea what that meant...
<Wolfger> Oh, wow. I did not know you could numerically multiply inserts in vim...
<Wolfger> now I can modify all my existing text files, going line by line with 9A!<esc>
<Wolfger> (because you can never have enough exclamation points)
<krondor> tjagoda:  I'm a bit upset about taco bell going gourmet.  I mean they're the GOTO 3 am bad decision around me.
<snap-l> I can't eat taco bell any more
<snap-l> It does very bad things to my stomach
<snap-l> It's almost more efficient for me to just throw it into the toilet with the wrapper still on
<brousch> old age
<brousch> same reason i can't drink caffeine
<snap-l> brousch: Yeah, I'm not sure what the hell they put in their stuff, but it's just not happening for me
<brousch> i like volcano taco and nachos from taco bell
<brousch> good stuff
<snap-l> You can have my share
<snap-l> times two
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-01-13
<snap-l> G'mornin'
<Wolfger> morning
<Wolfger> and why did you give brousch your share of volcano tacos? There's other people here too, y'know
<Wolfger> although I probably won't be getting many more volcano tacos until after the beefy crunch burritos go away again
<Wolfger> OK, wtf is up with an article about alternate Android launchers that doesn't show screenshots? http://www.webopedia.com/quick_ref/android_homescreen_launchers.html
<rick_h__> party
<brousch> rick_h__: you back?
<rick_h__> not until sat
<brousch> ah, so no party yet
<brousch> you're missing all the snow
<rick_h__> crap, someone go shovel out my wife please :)
<brousch> right, i'll be there in 3 hours
<brousch> i don't think detroit are got much
<Wolfger> Nah. Hardly anything. Just enough to make everybody drive like near-sighted grannies
<Wolfger> but the rain/snow mix did make some less-traveled roads slippery
<snap-l> rick_h__: We got a smattering at best by us
<rick_h__> snap-l: ah cool thanks
<rick_h__> when I left the 10 day had no snow
<rick_h__> so hoped she didn't get stuck shoveling
<snap-l> Unless Clarkston got hard-hit, she'll be fine
<snap-l> Just enough to say it snowed, but not enough to shovel
<snap-l> at least not yet.
<snap-l> though currently it's not snowing
<rick_h__> cool
<tjagoda> Where do I file my petition to request more snow?
<brousch> tjagoda: in the gassy depths of ur anus
<brousch> omg, this is what i feel like when snap-l starts talking music http://amultiverse.com/2012/01/13/horace-greenstein-scary-owl-lawyer-purchases-music/
<snap-l> Reminds me of HIgh Fidelity
<snap-l> (the movie)
<snap-l> And yes, I'm guilty of that. I'll admint it.
<Wolfger> Beige Lines? LOL
<Wolfger> and yeah, that does remind me very much of High Fidelity
<Wolfger> I was not aware Multiverse was still running. I thought it was stopping or something. If not, I have nfc why I unsubscribed the feed... I loved that strip
<rick_h__> wheee, I'm slap happy after this week and coming up on demo time
<rick_h__> ...ummm...we...did stuff......ugh
<nullspace> yawn
<Wolfger> So what massive improvements have you made to LP, rick_h__ ?
<tjagoda> He could tell you, Wolfger, but then he'd have to kill you.
<snap-l> rick_h__: How does it feel to be a superstar? :)
<tjagoda> Didn't rick_h apply to cannonical like 6,000,000 times?
<snap-l> tjagoda: I think we all have.
<snap-l> At least I feel like I have.
<snap-l> I just haven't hit critical-mass-awesome-levels like rick_h__ has. ;)
<tjagoda> There are no work from home network admin jobs. =(
<snap-l> Actually, at SF>net there were
<snap-l> But when something went pear-shaped at the data center, someone had to go in to fix shit
<rick_h__> heh, I ripped out an old JS framework, implemented a YUI combo loader, and saving about 600k and 1-3seconds on page load time :)
<rick_h__> heh, snap-l must not have hit my old code yet if he's being nice to me
<snap-l> rick_h__: Show-off
<snap-l> rick_h__: Haven't hit any of the web development stuff yet.
<snap-l> rick_h__: Though I have some opinions on your venv setup. ;)
<tjagoda> Yay 1-3 seconds
<tjagoda> I always remembered launchpad being slooow.
<rick_h__> snap-l: hah!
<rick_h__> see, there we go
<rick_h__> what did I mess up?
<snap-l> rick_h__: just not a fan of where the venv is placed in relation to the code
<snap-l> see pm
<tjagoda> Going to burger king and getting onions rings with no onion ring sauce inspires the fury of 10,000 burning suns within my soul.
<snap-l> That's just indigestion
<Wolfger> tjagoda: there's such a thing as "onion sauce"?
<snap-l> I trust tjagoda to know everything I need to know about fast food
<Wolfger> s/everything/more than/
<tjagoda> I am a single man
<tjagoda> Fast Food is my break from Ramen noodles
<tjagoda> =p
<nullspace> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=fYTPhuPuF20
<nullspace> good to see "little brother" is still watchign the watchmen
<brousch> snap-l: how do organize your venvs? mine tend to look like this http://paste.mitechie.com/show/490/
<greg-g> huh, I hadn't noticed that lodgeIt sets a cookie and then if someone replies to your paste while you were away, it tells you at the top when you come back.
<snap-l> brousch: I put my venvs under ~/.virtualenv
<snap-l> and then use virtualenvwrapper to keep trak
<snap-l> track, even
<brousch> where does your code go?
<snap-l> in a directory outside of the env
<snap-l> dev is under projects
<snap-l> deployment is wherever is conventional
<snap-l> but the venv is separate from the codebase
<snap-l> so if I want to have a webapps venv, I can
<snap-l> or if I want each web app to have a separate venv, I can configure that with apache
<snap-l> (note: this assumes you have access to change apache config)
<snap-l> That way, if someone broke into your app, they couldn't easily inject malicious code into your venv environment
<snap-l> (at least, not by using ../../etc
<brousch> interesting
<snap-l> Call me old-fashioned but I don't like putting libraries within easy reach on a web server.
<snap-l> That's one thing that irritates me no end with PHP
<snap-l> especially when the way to fix a problem (from the developers themselves) is to run chmod 777
<snap-l> I want to punch babies when I see that
<Wolfger> ugh. This day can be over now
<snap-l> Wolfger: That good, eh?
<Wolfger> why do things always go South on a Friday?
<Wolfger> chmod 777, the Windows solution to *nix permissions problems
<Wolfger> wow. that was a delay. I typed that a while ago
<snap-l> This just made my day: http://www.businessinsider.com/judge-tells-oracle-its-6-billion-claim-against-google-android-is-a-joke-2012-1
<snap-l> I relaly think Oracle should just get stuffed.
<Wolfger> If Google did something wrong, they should pay up... but the judge is absolutely right that 6.1 billion is a ludicrous claim for damages
<snap-l> At least show your work.
<snap-l> That's all the judge is asking
<Wolfger> Uh... no. He's asking them for a new figure, per the article
<snap-l> Right, because they haven't shown how they arrived at the original number
<snap-l> Although I really hope that Google didn't have a conversation about licensing the JDK prior to not licensing
<snap-l> because that'll suck
<Wolfger> I think those are the e-mails mentioned
<Wolfger> and I didn't get from the article that they *haven't* show their work, my interpretation was that the judge didn't like their work.
<Wolfger> "until Oracle comes up with a reasonable method" says to me that he saw their method and found it unreasonable
<Wolfger> If you file for damages with just a number and no work at all to show how you got that number, you should just get laughed out of the courtroom entirely.
<Wolfger> but, that's 6 of one or a half-dozen of the other. Either way, same end story.
<brousch> am i crazy for thinking this is an insane way of keeping track of the days of week and times a store is open? http://paste.mitechie.com/show/491/
<Wolfger> brousch: No, you are crazy for other reasons entirely
<brousch> i didn't write that. i'm trying to make sense of it
<snap-l> brousch: I'd say it's insane if it doesn't use built-in date/time libraries
<Wolfger> I gave up trying to make sense of it when the example was "assuming a week = 10 minutes"
<snap-l> I don't gather if it does or doesn't from the description
<brousch> i think it stores these things as minutes from sunday at midnight
<brousch> wtf
<Wolfger> I'm sure somebody thought they came up with some very clever solution to their problem...
<Wolfger> so clever that I understand neither the solution nor the problem it's trying to solve
<brousch> the problem is they want to know when a particular store is open or closed
<brousch> so this is how they store the open and closed times
<brousch> not very flexible either. some places' hours change with the season and holidays
<Wolfger> time zones?
<brousch> ah well, all i really need to do right now is fudge in a record so my store appears to be open right now
<brousch> time zones are somewhere else i guess
<brousch> it's all grand rapids right now, so they haven't worried
<Wolfger> I mean, if info is stored in terms of "minutes from midnight Sunday", you would need to know the time zone differential between the store and the server.
<Wolfger> ah, ok
<Wolfger> and on that note.... time to call it a week.
<Wolfger> this store is closed :-)
<brousch> it's only 3pm slacker
<rick_h__> 3pm?
 * rick_h__ is packing so he can get up at 3am and head to the airport
<greg-g> wee
<rick_h__> yea, party party
<rick_h__> man I can't wait to get home
<rick_h__> but someone mentioned that monday is a holiday so !!!!!!!!
<greg-g> not for me
<greg-g> though it is my last day of paternity leave
<greg-g> (don't remind me that I'm actually working some have-to stuff that is due EOW right now)
<rick_h__> greg-g: oh, well good to get back
<greg-g> yeah
<greg-g> it'll be nice to get back into the swing of things, really
<greg-g> felt really out of it lately
<rick_h__> yea, it'll be good
<brousch> they're also using these things called jsonfields where they type json into a django admin text field
<rick_h__> what? jsonfields?
<brousch> they're using it to store addresses and contact info. that seems lazy
<rick_h__> wtf, I ranted on django here. We're building some new crap with it and I'm very unhappy
<brousch> you type json into the text field, it stores as a string, then converts to dict when it's reetrieved
<brousch> seems very fragile and lazy
<brousch> i mean, you have to type the json exactly right or it'll be broken when you use it
<brousch> to be fair, jsonfield is not in django core, it is some thing various people have hacked up
<rick_h__> yea, gotcha
<rick_h__> well I'm tired and very ranty
<brousch> it doesn't make sense to me
<rick_h__> I'm not a fan of "these are all the freaking reasons NOT to use django...ok so what are your reasons for?"
<rick_h__> "umm, it's very popular. There's a large base of people that use it"
<brousch> make an address table, make a contacts table, link them in like normal
<rick_h__> brousch: probably because they just want a key value type store and it's used over an API
<brousch> rick_h__: "it looks good on a resume"
<brousch> there is an api, but they don't use it yet
<snap-l> Just save a UNIX time-stamp and use seconds. ;)
<rick_h__> brousch: then go tell them that "this one angry dev I know wants to know WTF is up with this POS"
<brousch> heh
<brousch> well i'll do that monday
<brousch> this is a site for a local startup/charity. i don't know who actually created this mess
<snap-l> ask at the next grwebdev
<snap-l> I'm sure someone knows
<brousch> but it's _really_ hard to find an experienced django dev in GR, so i suspect it was a n00b
<brousch> monday is grpug
<brousch> the startup owner will be there, so i can ask him
<snap-l> "who developed this, and did they leave their crack pip behind?"
<snap-l> s/pip/pipe/
<brousch> but really, why not just store a street address as a string? why break it up into pieces and save it as json?
<brousch> sorry for the rant. it really has me going wtf
<snap-l> WEll, and what happens when you have a PO box?
<snap-l> or deal with addresses from another country?
<snap-l> I'm sure a Canadian zip code will break shit
<brousch> technically this is for restaurants, so they're likely to have a real address.
<brousch> but surely there's a standard and rrobust way of storing addresses in a django database
<brousch> ok, i guess not, but i see a couple of alpha/beta things for it
<rick_h__> addresses are funny things
<rick_h__> so many parts and depends on where you are
<snap-l> Yeah, it's not something that you can slice and dice like that and expect to work
<snap-l> kind of like 7 digit phone numbers
<snap-l> 70015551212 = ???
<snap-l> actually, i borked that
<snap-l> was thinking 7 for external line
<snap-l> 001 for country code
<snap-l> 555 area code, 5551515 for the whatever you call the last 7 digits of a phone number
<brousch> i expected a module you could plugin to handle addresses anywhere in the world. this the world wide web
<snap-l> I thought this was the internets, where we could still use 7 bit ascii
<rick_h__> probably easy :)
<snap-l> fuck, I'm in the wrong area then
<rick_h__> cool, checked in for flight tomorrow
<rick_h__> with little images on my phone
<brousch> rick_h__: doesn't canonical use django in a few places already?
<snap-l> rick_h__: That's pretty neat.
<rick_h__> brousch: yes, a ton
<rick_h__> doesn't make it less wrong :)
<brousch> django does everything!
 * rick_h__ hangs head
<brousch> i'm a little ashamed to admit i am enjoying poking around in it again
<brousch> luckily rick_h__ is thousands of miles away and cannot kick me in the head
<rick_h__> I'm too tired to fight any more
<brousch> woohoo!
<rick_h__> and I'm going to be stuck with it
<rick_h__> I don't get to develop the project, but I'll have to maintain it
<brousch> django orm is the bizziggidzomb
<rick_h__> ok, now you're just poking me
<brousch> when do you take off?
<brousch> actually trying to get the paths and django settings hooked up right in this app was driving me bonkers.
<rick_h__> 6am, cab leaves 3:30am, currently 11pm
<rick_h__> coming up on that is
<brousch> go to bed
<rick_h__> can't
<rick_h__> watching the guys play illumnati or something
<rick_h__> they're attacking the federal reserve, whatever that means
<rick_h__> boo, can't pull this up http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/ofwfj/the_top_10_javascript_mvc_frameworks_reviewed/
<brousch> it just says "Jquery winning!"
<snap-l> illuminati the card game? :)
<snap-l> Steve Jackson Games.
<rick_h__> snap-l: yea, some card game with "mega bucks" and rolling of die
<snap-l> Yeah, you play illuminati, and can control different branches and items like the boy scouts, the Gnomes of ZUrich, etc.
<snap-l> I've been meaning to pick that up
<rick_h__> yea, they've got MTV and a bunch of stuff
<rick_h__> kind of crazy to listen to honestly
<snap-l> It's all about influence.
<snap-l> Surprised they're playing it. Seemed like the popularity was more in the 1990s.
<snap-l> But cool nonetheless.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-01-14
<rick_h__> hmm, maybe this "stay up! no sleep" plan is not going to work out
<brousch> damn fool
<rick_h__> lol
<rick_h__> well my alarm to wake me up just went off lol
<rick_h__> but that was before I saw the flight got moved back 30min
<snap-l> wow, this is insane: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3e/Poland_-_Czermna_-_Chapel_of_Skulls_-_interior_02.jpg
<snap-l> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/73/Capuchin_Crypt.jpg
<snap-l> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/01/Cripta_Cappuccini.jpg
<snap-l> I totally want to set this as my wallpaper at work.
<Blazeix> I went to the paris catacombs when i was 12, it's kind of like that, but without the scary dressed up skeletons
<brousch> http://paste.mitechie.com/show/492/
<brousch> blah
<brousch> http://selinuxproject.org/page/SEAndroid
<brousch> ignore that first one unless you like django hacks
<snap-l> brousch: That's interesting (SELInux under Android)
<snap-l> Happy birthday, _stink_ ! :)
<_stink_> snap-l: thanks!
<_stink_> it's 7:48am here in Vegas
<_stink_> and
<_stink_> i'm on IRC. :P
<snap-l> _stink_: If you're not in front of a slot machine, or at a buffet, or watching a show, there's not that much else to do in Vegas.
<snap-l> Also, you're in Vegas? Isn't there a certain Consumer Electronics Show happening there?
<_stink_> snap-l: ended yesterday
<_stink_> so the nerds were out in full force yesterday
<_stink_> but i assume they're leaving today/tomorrow
<_stink_> saw a guy carrying a 52 inch tv on the strip
<_stink_> but next to the freddie kreuger and barney the dinosaur impersonators
<_stink_> it wasn't too remarkable
<_stink_> snap-l: yeah, we're here for about 3 days.  probably after today we will have done most of what we 'want'
<_stink_> but now it's time for breakfast buffet
<_stink_> bbl
<snap-l> I can honestly say I would never want to go to a CES
<snap-l> I mean, I like tech, but seems kinda smarmy
<snap-l> _stink_: You just wanted to get a sneak peek of the Ubuntu TV, didn't you. ;)
<rick_h__> damn wrong channel
<rick_h__> almost made it up until 8pm
<rick_h__> _stink_: vegas? cool
<rick_h__> _stink_: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QKdBhKKVMQ&feature=g-upl&context=G28abb85AUAAAAAAABAA
<rick_h__> and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMBV-b36xr8&feature=g-upl&context=G2dc5ccdAUAAAAAAAAAA
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-01-15
<snap-l> rick_h__: Awwwwww
<_stink_> rick_h__: haha, those are awesome
<rick_h__> wow, a 10hr night of sleep and 3hr nap later and I almost feel human again
<snap-l>  rick_h__ Welcome back to the land of the living.
<rick_h__> thanks!
<snap-l> How was the trip home?
<rick_h__> so so
<rick_h__> I just stayed up the night before
<rick_h__> so was running out of steam
<rick_h__> and hard time concentrating on anything, reading, computing, etc
<rick_h__> so that last flight was just not fun
<snap-l> Ugh
<snap-l> On the plus side, I have a copy of Illuminati that I can bring to CHC. ;)
<rick_h__> yea, 8hr is really a nice limit for a flight. I can't imagine the guys going to Australia
<rick_h__> who are just now getting home kind of thing
<snap-l> I can't either
<snap-l> or even the ones that have the 8 hr flights with a few layovers
<snap-l> I think I'd want to shoot someone.
<rick_h__> yea, it's a bit crazy
<rick_h__> but yea, everything was really sweet. So glad I got to go
<snap-l> Yeah, it sounds like you had a great time over there.
<snap-l> Not every day you can say you redid Launchpad's widget library. ;)
<rick_h__> yea, very disconnected
<rick_h__> but lots of good work done
<rick_h__> though I got a bit sucked in and worked after/early most days
<snap-l> rick_h__: I think that's the idea.
<snap-l> You start living / breathing work
<snap-l> If you tried to do a sprint like that remotely, it wouldn't be as effective
<snap-l> but in the same room, with people getting excited, means you can work miracles
<rick_h__> yea, well a lot of it was good social time. I've never been in a room where the americans were such a minority in some cases
<snap-l> it's why people don't run marathons by themselves unless they're crazy.
<rick_h__> right
<rick_h__> snap-l: so how was the work week? You've not run screaming yet? :)
<snap-l> heh
<snap-l> It was pretty good.
<snap-l> John's starting me off on some technical debt.
<snap-l> with the AP stuff
<rick_h__> yea, that's always good
<rick_h__> yea, that's been meant to be cleaned for a while
<snap-l> It's needed it
<rick_h__> I know that was what we were going to hire someone to do and I was going to help train/bootstrap them
<rick_h__> it's nice because you can start there and it's a smaller easier bit to get involved with
<snap-l> Yeah, I think the sysadmin experience was also a plus because I think about things like process locking during the design phase. ;)
<rick_h__> :)
<snap-l> What's shaking?
<rick_h__> party
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-01-07
<snap-l> btw: Meeting tonight at 9pm
<snap-l> yes, I know it's during Downton Abbey, but deal
<ColonelPanic001> meeting?
<snap-l> Monthly IRC meeting
<ColonelPanic001> oh, right.
<Blazeix> the meeting of the elders of the internet.
<rick_h_> snap-l: sure thing
<ColonelPanic001> I might be somewhat here. Always meant to stick around for one of those
<ColonelPanic001> the meeting, tha tis
<snap-l> rick_h_: Cool. Mind if I pick it up at CHC?
<rick_h_> snap-l: no, I'll make sure it's inflated. Remind me to bring it
<snap-l> cool. thabk you
<snap-l> OK, now that I've watched how the aristocracy live, and now have a feeling of what an atom must feel... ;)
<snap-l> What say we get this party started in 3 minutes?
<Ahuka> Is it time to Immanentize the Eschaton?
<snap-l> Um, sure.
<snap-l> Welcome to the meeting, everyone.
<snap-l> Not a whole lot to talk about, so hopefully we can keep this brief so you Downtoners can Downton with the best of them
<snap-l> http://loco.ubuntu.com/meetings/ubuntu-michigan/511/detail/
<snap-l> ^ agenda
<snap-l> First off, welcome to 2013. :)
<snap-l> The only piece I have is the 13.04 release party.
<snap-l> I spoke with the Hotel Liaison for Penguicon, and we have secured a location for the release party, so thats' A+
<Ahuka> Cool.
<snap-l> It'll likely be in the bar, as this time around the bar is large enough to contain around 20 or so folks.
<snap-l> so, woo hoo. :)
<snap-l> I haven't heard anything about jams for 13.04 as of yet, so once we have a date for that, we can start planning it.
<snap-l> I did mention last meeting that it would be cool if we could put together a "Day of service" for Ubuntu
<snap-l> Something where we could participate, whether remotely or in person
<snap-l> If anyone has some ideas on that, we should collaborate on the mailing list
<snap-l> Any questions, or comments?
<ColonelPanic001> nein
<Ahuka> So the release party will be 4/26/13?
<snap-l> That's correct.
<snap-l> I put it on the calendar already
<waldo323> what type of service would we be looking to do?
<snap-l> waldo323: That's entirely up to folks. What I had in mind was something like the jams, where people would come together to do a few hours of something that interests them
<snap-l> documentation, bug triage, ask ubuntu foo, packaging, whatever
<snap-l> I initially thought it might be cool to do that all online, or perhaps with a small meetup and online.
<snap-l> Just something to keep our participation up from a few times a year. :)
<waldo323> possibly several groups in different parts of the state at the same time
<snap-l> Exactly
<ColonelPanic001> I'd probably be in.
<snap-l> Something we can do together as a state without having to worry too much about getting everyone together
<snap-l> And maybe get some more folks involved throughout the year.
<snap-l> That was my vision, anyway.
<snap-l> So, give it some thought, if you would, and we can discuss planning at the next meeting
<snap-l> Anything else to discuss?
<snap-l> Comments, questions, observations?
<jjesse> besides me being late :)
<snap-l> Rude gestures? :)
<waldo323> give out beer with a cd?
<jhansonxi> Make our own Ubuntu - Michibuntu!
<snap-l> waldo323: Is that a rude gesture? Because I don't see it. :)
<waldo323> haha
<jhansonxi> Yoopers can make their own
<snap-l> One last thing: if someone would like to take on putting together the team reports, I'd be much obliged.
<snap-l> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MichiganTeam/TeamReports/
<snap-l> Frankly, I don't like them, so if someone would like to take on that responsibility of keeping them current, I'd be a very happy man
<snap-l> If you're interested (and who wouldn't be) feel free to go ahead and update them.
<snap-l> if you have any questions, let me know. :)
<snap-l> and if you want to update them, but don't have access, please let us know. I think I can give write authority.
<snap-l> Anything else?
<waldo323> can they be at least partly automatically updated?
<snap-l> waldo323: I wish
<jhansonxi> What does the "Coffee House Coders" actually do?
<snap-l> We get together and talk programming  and code on projects
<waldo323> weekly destressing time for some of us
<snap-l> It became a partnership between the groups
<snap-l> waldo323: You need a hyphen in there, otherwise it looks like a distressing typo. ;)
<waldo323> :) true,   de-stressing time
<jhansonxi> Just out of curiosity, what are the Loco teams supposed to do?
<Ahuka> Take voer the world.
<jhansonxi> Is Ohio the next target?
<Ahuka> Always.
<snap-l> jhansonxi: Outreach, act as points of contact for the community
<snap-l> facilitate interested folks into becoming more active.
<jhansonxi> snap-l: Sounds like more free tech support
<snap-l> jhansonxi: Welcome to OPen Source Software. ;)
<waldo323> for each other as much as for newcomers
<snap-l> jhansonxi: Though it's less sinister than you might imagine
<jhansonxi> I was doing that when I was on Windows anyways
<snap-l> For me, it's something that I'd do anyway. I like helping people as much as I can
<jhansonxi> Is this supposed to be Ubuntu-specific?  I switched to Xfce on Linux Mint because of Unity
<snap-l> jhansonxi: I won't hold it against you. ;)
<snap-l> The primary focus is Ubuntu, but we won't kick you out or yell if you're not using Ubuntu at all times.
<jjesse> they let me in :)
<snap-l> I mean, we even let KDE folks in here.
<waldo323> and commandline folks
<jhansonxi> It just seems like most of the Linux/Ubuntu market forces are out of our hands.  Steam will probably have more of an impact on adoption than a Loco.
<snap-l> jhansonxi: There's still a purpose for local folks.
<jhansonxi> I'm near Alpena so I'm not exactly "local"
<snap-l> After all, you wouldn't want to drink from the firehose of #ubuntu on a day to day basis
<snap-l> That's OK.
<snap-l> You're still in Michigan
<jhansonxi> That's what they say about Yoopers but I never believed that :D
<jjesse> jhansonxi, brousch  and i are are from Grand Rapids
<jjesse> so we all aren't from detroit area
<jhansonxi> It just seems like a MI-specific Ubuntu LUG is rather limited in what it can accomplish.  I'm not sure the "total is greater than the sum of its parts".  IRC is nice but Google searches answer most of my tech questions.
<snap-l> jhansonxi: We also have some Canonical employees in channel
<snap-l> They happen to be local.
<snap-l> Some of whom became Canonical Employees because they participated in events (and were super-awesome to boot, but I'm selling the loco here)
<snap-l> I used to think that LUGs and Locos were pretty silly, but there's more to it than just free tech support
<snap-l> We're friends here.
<Wolfger> I'm late for the meeting, aren't I?
<rick_h_> meh, loco isn't tech support. It's community. Sure it can be some local help, but more often just a chance to chat. Liked minded individuals and all that. We can do some advocacy, provide a lodestone for new ubuntu users
<snap-l> Wolfger: Not too late for the nomination to do grunt work part. :)
<jjesse> +1 to rick_h_
<jjesse> i think we are all friends here
<snap-l> Yeah, that's just on the surface.
<snap-l> As always, rick_h_ explains it better than I can. :)
<rick_h_> it'd be great to do some larger scale projects in that advocacy area, but requires effort which we've been thin on
<snap-l> Well, we did some at Ohio Linuxfest with the Ohio Loco
<jhansonxi> rich_h_: I could see that if it was MI-specific but not many n00bs or potential n00bs are going to show up on a small IRC channel.  It would be more effective to visit potential groups of users like schools, youth groups, etc.
<snap-l> jhansonxi: If you're interested in setting something like that up, I'm sure there's some interest.
<rick_h_> jhansonxi: sure, but you'd be surprised at people that just show up in irc :)
<rick_h_> but true, that's what I mean. It'd be great to have some people lead some larger scale projects
<Wolfger> Like active participation in Bug Jams? :-p
<rick_h_> things like classes/workshops/community activities would be great
<jhansonxi> snap-l: I'm rather isolated.  I've encountered maybe 3 people outside my client base who even know what Ubuntu/Linux is.
<rick_h_> Wolfger: :P
<rick_h_> jhansonxi: awesome, good to hear. We can all relate to that kind of work as we're doing the same
<rick_h_> but that's what I mean, the loco doesn't have to be about a report card on how many people you handed an ubuntu cd to today
<jhansonxi> Wolfger: I refuse to dirty myself triaging bugs that will get less developer attention than my own rather lonely submissions.
<Wolfger> lol
<Wolfger> yes, I eventually came to the same disillusioned conclusion
<jhansonxi> I feel that submitting bug reports is just signing up for more "have you tried this in the latest release yet?" spam.
<rick_h_> heh, jhansonxi you run an OSS project? It's a bit different on the other side /me looks at bookie bug report db in shame
<jhansonxi> I've even included sample scripts in bug reports that ended with: && echo "YES THE DAMN THING IS STILL BROKE!"
<Wolfger> RFOL
<Wolfger> ROFL even
<Wolfger> ok, I'm out again. Shameful, but at least I showed up at all this meeting.
<snap-l> I'm going to call the meeting done (not to kill the conversation)
<snap-l> so, thank you all for coming!
<snap-l> I'm of a mind that the locos are about not waiting for someone else to do something
<snap-l> If you want to make something happen, you have a built-in group of people who will listen
<jhansonxi> snap-l: We need to expand the user base so there are more fanatical slaves available.
<snap-l> jhansonxi: That takes time.
<jhansonxi> yep
<snap-l> Nobody ever got converted from a religious tract. ;)
<jhansonxi> snap-l: Religions tend to turn into social clubs when they lack direction.  I don't want my deployments becoming "that other drive partition that never gets used".
<jhansonxi> Many of my clients are gamers which doesn't help my retention rate.
<snap-l> It should be getting better with the HUmble Bundles
<snap-l> especially if they're indie gamers.
<snap-l> And Crossover is pretty damn good
<jhansonxi> Most are looking for current AAA titles.  Wine is a crap-shoot at best.
<snap-l> jhansonxi: Agreed. But when it works, it's quite nice.
<jhansonxi> "Works" depends on version and game.  Often a Wine update fixes one game but breaks others on the same system.
<snap-l> And I can honestly say Linux Gaming has never looked better, even when Loki was in it's heyday.
<jhansonxi> Yes, and Kickstarter projects also help but many are months away.  There will be new consoles this year and unless Valve's box succeeds wildly they will probably hurt Linux gaming more than they help.
<snap-l> jhansonxi: Any attention Valve can bring is a plus
<snap-l> if Valve suddenly said Linux sucks, it's no worse than Loki's implosion
<jhansonxi> snap-l: Linux probably owes more to the Win8 dev team than anyone else for the gaming improvement.
<snap-l> Humble Bundle
<snap-l> It proved that Linux folks will pay 4x as much as Windows folks for titles they probably haven't even played.
<snap-l> Windows folks are spoiled for choices.
<snap-l> Every game under Linux is a gift.
<jhansonxi> snap-l: Nice but mostly older and lesser-known titles.  The KS campaigns will be new.
<snap-l> You couldn't ask for a better market
<snap-l> Kickstarter campaigns are only good to a point
<jhansonxi> The mobile shift is helping, sort of.
<snap-l> they select those folks who are already fans of whatever the campaign
<snap-l> Mobile doesn't do anything for desktop adoption
<snap-l> All Mobile does is get developers to think about targeting other platforms.
<jhansonxi> Win8 doesn't either.  I'm concerned about winning a dead market.
<snap-l> Who cares?
<snap-l> Windows 8 is going to kill the desktop market the same way the PC killed the mainframe market
<snap-l> it just becomes a different market
<jhansonxi> We seem to be depending heavily on a single potential console (Valve's) for promoting AAA Linux-compatible games if the desktop market dies but I can't see any way out of it.
<snap-l> There is the Ubuntu Software store as well
<snap-l> Valve may bring some credibility, but ultimately it's up to the developers and publishers to decide if it's worth targeting another platform
<jhansonxi> Desktop or moble only.  If desktop gaming dies then the Ubuntu Store will be competing with Android, etc.
<snap-l> And it's up to the Linux folks to ensure it's worthwhile.
<snap-l> Desktop gamingis on the chopping block as much as console gaming
<jhansonxi> Yes, the devs matter but at this point it looks more like anti-Win8 (and the flat PC market) than pro-Linux.  Only time will tell.
<snap-l> Abolutes help no-one. Markets are opportunities
<snap-l> and adding a robust Linux gaming market to a developer's bottom line only encourages them to continue
<jhansonxi> I agree.  Anyways, I have to get back to my scripting around apt's lame mirror fail-over support.
<snap-l> That's what the Humble Bundles have taught us.
<snap-l> Laterness.
<greg-g> brousch: CC
<brousch> greg-g: Would you want to do a remote talk or Q&A for GRWebDev?
<brousch> We're having a meeting about open source licensing, philosophy, etc
<brousch> Oh crap, I missed the meeting?
<brousch> The ubuntu-mi meeting?
<greg-g> sure, what time of day/day of week and how long?
<brousch> It would be Monday, Jan 28, for probably 20-30mins between 6PM and 8PM Michigan time
<brousch> Bedtime. I'll email you tomorrow
<greg-g> k, brousch greg@creativecommons.org :)
<rick_h_> morning
<snap-l> Chrome apparently just lost all of my passwords.
<snap-l> What. The. Fuck.
<snap-l> Also, tried moving the .config file for Google Chrome, but apparently there's a file I can't delete.
<snap-l> Computers suck.
<rick_h_> lesson learned
<snap-l> OK, something is really, really wrong
<snap-l> Oh, this is such bullshit
<snap-l> Well, the fun thing is my passwords are still apparently on Google Dashboard
<snap-l> they're just not in this browser
<rick_h_> sync disable?
<snap-l> because God forbid they sync down to my browser
<snap-l> sync everything, and it's still munged
<snap-l> If this is the case, I'm deleting my Google data and starting over.
<snap-l> Going to check it at work.
<snap-l> FJUHUUJU&UUYYUYUU&CU&ZXDf.n ,zxdsF[b.ZSD CJ: hkaSD FEk;uSefdCV
<snap-l> Well, what was supposed to be a little productive interlude turned into getting fucked by computers
<snap-l> And now sync is busted
<snap-l> bookmarks are OK, but the rest of my extensions aren't getting downloaded
<snap-l> of course Chrome doesn't tell you that, it just lets you guess
<snap-l> Fuck magic
<brousch> Did you try uninstalling it, deleting your config, and re-installing?
<snap-l> Ah, it appears to be working now
<snap-l> though my proxy extension is missing
<snap-l> Strange. I've been using it for a while now
<snap-l> Hm, oh well. Wonder what'll happen at work. ;)
<snap-l> Nice. Apparently one of the extensions I was using is completely gone
<snap-l> author must've deleted it
<snap-l> Most of the other proxy switchers are pretty shit, imho
<snap-l> Reminder: MUG tomorrow
<snap-l> http://mug.org/meetings
<snap-l> Also, be sure to add the calendar feed to your calendar:
<snap-l> http://www.mug.org/?page=CiviCRM&q=civicrm/event/ical&reset=1&list=1
<snap-l> "If thereâs such a thing as cheating to get better performance, we want to cheat as much as possible. " - Pyramid docs
<snap-l> http://docs.pylonsproject.org/projects/pyramid/en/1.0-branch/designdefense.html#pyramid-cheats-to-obtain-speed
<rick_h_> " As an amelioration, we've commented these sections liberally."
<rick_h_> that's the key part of that paragraph
<snap-l> Yeah, I know. I just liked the "If that's cheating, then so be it" mentality.
<snap-l> as if droppping to C in python is somehow cheating
<brousch> It is annoying
<snap-l> Got into a rabbit-trail looking at pylons controllers and Bookie
<snap-l> And the lack of a "controllers" directory.
<brousch> Pure Python is easier to use on weird platforms, like Android
<rick_h_> pyramid views == controllers
<snap-l> rick_h_: Yeah, learning that.
<snap-l> brousch: I agree, to a point
<snap-l> There should be a way to turn off C extensions should you want to use pure python
<snap-l> But that also introduces two code bases
<rick_h_> it's called pypy :P
<brousch> I would like to see people default to pure Python, optimize with C, but if C isn't available at runtime, then use the pure Python version
<snap-l> rick_h_: It's called Java. :-p
<rick_h_> have fun with that
<snap-l> We've secretly replaced rick_h_'s Python with jpython. Let's see if he notices.
<greg-g> ok, linux geekers, how do I stop/restart my printer daemon?
<snap-l> greg-g: Under Ubuntu?
<rick_h_> sudo service cupsd restart?
<rick_h_> sorry, just cups
<greg-g> oh right, service
<greg-g> upstart fun stuff
<snap-l> Yeah, stop using /etc/rc...
<snap-l> or even /etc/init.d/...
<greg-g> service can do that, too, and is the preferred way in Ubuntu-land right?
<snap-l> That is a path to suffering
<snap-l> yep
<rick_h_> yea, I still end up doing both
<greg-g> oh, you mean, "greg, you stop doing this" not "you can stop it by..."
<snap-l> yes. ;)
<greg-g> :)
<greg-g> gah, it didn't solve my problem, I'm getting notifications of the printer trying to connect, thenf ailing, then trying again, then failing, then... .then....
<greg-g> can't remove the printer from the gnome-settings UI (it has that option, it just isn't working)
<rick_h_> greg-g: find the cups ui itself and try it there. second
<rick_h_> http://localhost:631/
<rick_h_> why I hate this stuff, just wrapping the real sources anyway :/
<greg-g> huh
<greg-g> that worked
<rick_h_> :)
<greg-g> thanks! :)
<snap-l> You might want to make sure GNOME caught up
<rick_h_> always find the source ftw
<snap-l> Otherwise you might find your printers are terminally out of sync. ;)
<greg-g> no more notifications.... I'm happy, screw printing ;)
 * snap-l doesn't have his work printers set up. ;)
<rick_h_> lol
<rick_h_> snap-l: ugh, I used to print from windows VM
<snap-l> rick_h_: I've gone a year without having printers set up even in the VM
<snap-l> I tried once, and gave up
<rick_h_> snap-l: yea, was a pita. I ended up setting up the driver with direct ip/etc.
<snap-l> Honestly, I'll send you a PDF quicker than I'll trundle down a pad of paper.
<greg-g> I, unfortunately, need to sign something, bugger
<snap-l> greg-g: That's what Xournal and a wacom pad are good for handling
 * snap-l has signed many a document that way.
<snap-l> They're not terribly good for big forms, though
 * greg-g has no input device of that sort
<snap-l> I'd highly recommend picking one up
<rick_h_> meh, just print and sign it and put it in the mail
<rick_h_> still works
<greg-g> still gotta print
<smoser> jcastro, i was confused by your "hulu and roku" comments.
<smoser> i cant seem to figure out how roku uses hulu unless you have hulu plus
<smoser> (trying my free hulu account on roku says something like "not enabled for plus")
<snap-l> afaik, nothing outside of the site can use Hulu without plus
<snap-l> Would love to be proven wrong.
<smoser> (well, plex has some scrapers)
<snap-l> I find it pretty ridiculous, regardless
<smoser> true
<smoser> (plex scrapers only work on windows, as they require silverlight)
<snap-l> I'm not paying for someone to ship me ads with content. That's what Cable became
<jcastro> what the hell
<jcastro> it's not 3 oclock already
<greg-g> nope, just 11:52
<brousch> Feels like nap time
<greg-g> sounds good to me
<Blazeix> widox: i'm going to try to make the mongodb conference before the github drinkup, you thinking you'll be there too?
<widox> Blazeix: cool. I'm on the fence, might be intersting to check out
<rick_h_> kind of cool https://github.com/mitechie?tab=contributions&period=monthly
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-01-08
<brousch> heh, i was expecting a gittip thing
<rick_h_> no, I've given up on the gittip thing I think
<snap-l> https://github.com/craigmaloney?tab=contributions&period=monthly <- I has a sad
<brousch> You're worse than I am
<snap-l> Thanks.
<brousch> My CFA brigade stuff saved me
<snap-l> Finishing up Episode 63 of OMC
<snap-l> http://www.dadhacker.com/blog/?p=1867
<snap-l> good morning
<brousch> so far
<rick_h_> morning
<snap-l> Reminder: MUG Meeting tonight.
<snap-l> http://mug.org/meetings for more information
<snap-l> rick_h_: re: WoT: Take the day off.
<snap-l> give it the closure it deserves.
<rick_h_> lol
<brousch> eh?
<snap-l> Wheel of time is finishing up
<rick_h_> yea, final book out today. Will be here tomorrow. closing a giant chapter of my life
<brousch> My step-dad read that
<brousch> I read 1 chapter, looked at the pile, and said no thanks
<rick_h_> lol, I do recall when I first started it took me 3 days to read the first 30 pages
<rick_h_> I finished the rest of the book the next day
<brousch> snap-l: Did you see this? http://dvice.com/archives/2013/01/why-we-love-rob.php
<snap-l> Yeah, I have
<snap-l> Apparently there's also a pole-dancing robot, if you're into that sort of thing.
<brousch> not really
<rick_h_> and the RoR world (including github) run for their lives patching all the way yay
<snap-l> rick_h_: Yeah, apparently it's quite a doozy.
<rick_h_> "allows attackers to bypass authentication systems, inject arbitrary SQL, inject and execute arbitrary code, or perform a DoS attack on a Rails application"
<rick_h_> yep... that == doozy
<rick_h_> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/rubyonrails-security/61bkgvnSGTQ/discussion
<rick_h_> what happens when you tool allows you to do all kinds of bat-shit crazy stuff...people exploit it
<snap-l> Welcome to PHP++
<snap-l> Users who don't need to support XML parameters should disable XML parsing entirely by placing one of the following snippets inside an application initializer.
<snap-l> What... the...fuck...
<greg-g> so, should I take this news today to the extreme and be prejudice against someone in an election because they work on RoR?
<greg-g> (a w3c election)
<snap-l> Unless there's a good reason for it, I'd suggest no.
<snap-l> Now, the reaon question of the day: should I keep listening to "Fear of a Black Planet" that Random Music selected for me?
<greg-g> I know I know ;), my network was laggy otherwise there would have been a ";)" in the above
<brousch> I am working with tastypie today and it's really nice
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-01-09
<snap-l> Hello from MUG
<waldo323> greetings!
<rick_h_> party
<snap-l> rick_h_: Hey, slacker... where are you?
<rick_h_> home, just got done cleaning the kitchen
<snap-l> Bah
<rick_h_> :P
<snap-l> That's no good
<rick_h_> can't make it every month
<snap-l> you should have a dirty kitchen and be here.
<snap-l> ;)
<snap-l> THis is a good presentatio
<rick_h_> hah, after tonight I wish
<snap-l> n
<rick_h_> very cool!
<greg-g> I still hate seeing mac keyboards at ostensibly floss companies: http://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/ubuntu-for-android.jpeg
<brousch> greg-g: At least it's just a keyboard!
<snap-l> greg-g: I used to have an Apple keyboard on my computers
<snap-l> I just liked the Apple hardware.
<snap-l> http://terribleminds.com/ramble/2013/01/09/search-term-bingo-the-revengification/
<snap-l> If anyone wants physical copies of THe Perl Journal (issues 10-20) let me know
<snap-l> I'll bring them tonight at CHC
<snap-l> Otherwise they're getting recycled.
<snap-l> jcastro / smoser: Here's where I got those Antenna for my router: http://ur1.ca/cgqkv
<snap-l> Price is $15.
<snap-l> I paid $30.99 for them because I wanted to be sure I wasn't getting some knock-off
<snap-l> I don't even see the company that I dealt with kin the list.
<rick_h_> widox: how are you doing with the leopold keyboard? Still using it?
<smoser> snap-l, thanks.
<smoser> i have a spare/unused wrt54-gl so i'll probably just set up a repeater or something.
<widox> rick_h_: yep
<rick_h_> widox: cool
<widox> just saw your tweet about double chars; I get that too
<widox> mostly with the spacebar though
<rick_h_> yea, driving me mad. I think it might be I'm too forceful, used to the harder keys on the unicomp
<rick_h_> but i had it before as well.
<brousch> You wouldn't get that with an Apple keyboard
<widox> the other day I noticedt that amazon has the filco back in stock...
<rick_h_> cranky today, no patience for bad tech
<rick_h_> yea, just ordered the filco w/blue keys
<widox> nice
<rick_h_> brousch: no, the apple keyboard would get tossed through my office window
 * snap-l would love to see rick_h_'s window bill
<derekv> I'll be driving to codemash tonight sometime
<rick_h_> derekv: awesome
<rick_h_> looks like a empty CHC night with the github drink up and codemash
<snap-l> I'll be at CHC tonight
<snap-l> Or am I part of the "empty". ;)
<derekv> there's a github drinkup in michigan?
<snap-l> Too late. You're going to code mash
<snap-l> muhahahahaha
<derekv> i'm surprised
<snap-l> What, that people drink in Michigan?
<snap-l> or that github would know where Michigan is on a map?
<brousch> We had one a year or two ago in GR
<widox> there was one in AA this past summer
<derekv> heh, AA drinkup
<derekv> oh wait annarbour ;p
<widox> hah. :D
<Blazeix> yeah, there are 2 or 3 github employees that work remotely from MI
<Blazeix> last time i heard
<rick_h_> oh oh oh http://new.livestream.com/accounts/2432013/CES2013
<brousch> Did you get in on that?
<rick_h_> yea
<rick_h_> I was a sucker
<greg-g> snap-l: yeah, I just think that those specific keyboards are horrible for empirical health reasons (ie: my hands/wrists hurt like hell when I try to use one for longer than 5 minutes)
<rick_h_> greg-g: ++ I go nuts when I see a lot of co-workers always living on their laptop keyboards
<greg-g> pretty is all well and good, but when it comes to ergonomics, ergonomics should trump pretty
<rick_h_> makes me cringe that they use that 100% of the time all the time
<greg-g> yep
<brousch> rick_h_: I use my laptop 100% of the time
<rick_h_> :(
<brousch> But I type with about 4 fingers
<rick_h_> woot! jan 23rd shipping pebble
<rick_h_> e-ink display ftw
<rick_h_> sweet, magnetic charge
<greg-g> brousch: one of my co-workers who's a big nerd (Wikipedian extraordinare) is in the same boat
<greg-g> rick_h_: is this what you're talking about? http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/597507018/pebble-e-paper-watch-for-iphone-and-android
<rick_h_> oooh http://www.engadget.com/2013/01/09/pebble-smartwatch-hands-on-video/
<rick_h_> greg-g: yea
<greg-g> they better damn deliver with all that money
<rick_h_> yea, announced shipping starts at 15k/wk Jan 23rd
<greg-g> wow
<rick_h_> man, I want the mapmyride app for this!
<snap-l> OK, that pebble watch looks cool
<rick_h_> yea, I'm excited again. Was getting tired of the delays/etc.
<rick_h_> but <3 the idea of controlling phone stuff while it's in my pocket.
<rick_h_> especially when biking/working
<rick_h_> will need to get a new band for it though me thinks
<derekv> i probably should have seen if anyone else was driving down from the area
<jcastro> rick_h_: what's the pebble do
<rick_h_> jcastro: hooks up to your phone via bluetooth, does time, messages (sms and such) and will have an sdk for hooking up other apps
<rick_h_> basically, apps on the phone talk to the watch
<rick_h_> comes with a music app to control your music on the phone
<rick_h_> their demo had it hooked up via ifttt so that on conditions your watch gets a notification
<brousch> I want a big velcro strap to attach my phone to my wrist
<rick_h_> yea, I want to keep my phone in my bike bag, or pockets, etc.
<brousch> Maybe with a flip-back cover for the phone with a window to show the time
<rick_h_> lol
<brousch> retractable mini-trackball i can use in my left hand while typing with my right
<brousch> I need to kick-starter this
<rick_h_> brousch: make it work with the new CES 6" phones
<brousch> What's cool is our makerspace is getting 3d printers so I could actually make this crazy stuff
<rick_h_> jcastro: good hands on with it http://www.theverge.com/2013/1/9/3855482/pebble-smartwatch-hands-on-video
<brousch> Hah, eat it, East siders http://www.forbes.com/pictures/efkk45edkmj/no-7-grand-rapids-mich/
<snap-l> Fresno is in unhappiest, iirc.
<rick_h_> meh, crazy people are always happy :P
<brousch> Not the ones that shoot up places
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-01-10
<snap-l> rick_h_: http://podcast.cbc.ca/mp3/podcasts/vinylcafe_20110430_65178.mp3 Start from about 24:00
<snap-l> http://podcast.cbc.ca/mp3/podcasts/vinylcafe_20110108_41153.mp3 rick_h_: This one, 30:00 in is the one I was really thinking of. Listen to this one first, if you will.
<snap-l> Good morning
<rick_h_> morning
<snap-l> rick_h_: Did you listen to those clips I posted?
<rick_h_> snap-l: no, not yet.
<snap-l> no worries. Just wanted to make sure you got them
<snap-l> The rest of the episodes are pretty much a miss for me (folk music == ugh) but the Dave and Morley stories are hilarious.
<snap-l> Funny enough, I got a note from Coderwall today.
<snap-l> I must've subscribed to some newsletter.
<rick_h_> hah, login after 1000 days of inactivity and emails resume
<snap-l> ust be
<rick_h_> I got the same thing
<snap-l> What a PITA
<snap-l> What is unity-scope-video-remote, and why does it keep bothering me with errors? :)
<greg-g> snap-l: don't ask questions you don't want answers to.
<jcastro> I think that's the remote videos thing
<jcastro> like youtube, etc.
<snap-l> greg-g: That's just my passive aggressive way of asking for it not to crash all the time. ;)
<snap-l> I figure it was reading my keypresses.
<greg-g> snap-l: exactly ;)
<brousch> The Holy Grail http://mobile.slashdot.org/story/13/01/10/1513251/plasma-active-sailfish-and-ubuntu-phone-developers-discussing-common-apis
<snap-l> Yes, I'm sure many died trying to find the ever elusive API.
<snap-l> brousch: ^
<snap-l> The Knights Templar protect the API.
<dzho> many bothans died to bring us this API
<rick_h_> https://twitter.com/ryanpetrello/status/289402940924497920
<rick_h_> awesome
<snap-l> I <3 Lego
<snap-l> That is beyond awesome
<jcastro> n0p: you get that cable yet? we need to jam!!
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-01-11
<rick_h_> http://ssaboum.github.com/meta-deps/ cool
<snap-l> Wow, that's pretty sweet
<snap-l> I love the red dot near the center: setuptools
<rick_h_> lmao https://twitter.com/rkkski/status/288956938778189824/photo/1
<rick_h_> not sure how real that is, but that's great!
<snap-l> http://vimcasts.org/episodes/long-range-line-duplication/
<snap-l> This just got me to turn on line numbering in my vim editor
<snap-l> God, I love PYthon
<snap-l> nothing major, just seeing some elegance.
<rick_h_> the more you know the prettier it gets
<snap-l> Looking at the QuickWIki tutorial, and the way they find the wikiwords in a document is quite elegant.
<snap-l> wikiwords = re.compile(r'\b([A-Z]\w+[A-Z]+\w+)', re.UNICODE)
<snap-l> later...
<snap-l> titles = set(wikiwords.findall(content))
<snap-l> (from http://docs.pylonsproject.org/projects/pylons-webframework/en/latest/tutorials/quickwiki_tutorial.html)
<snap-l> Not sure if anyone of you plays Magic the Gathering (I personally couldn't care less) but apparently Guild of Blades is now a sanctioned Wizards of the Coast location, and has Friday Night Magic tourneys
<snap-l> They also have Munchkin Tournaments.
<jcastro> rick_h_: why do people like rugs
<jcastro> "I got us an entrance rug!"
<jcastro> No, you got a dirt attractor that covers my beloved OAK FLOOR.
<rick_h_> lol
<snap-l> Man, I love this song.
<snap-l> http://metalinjection.fm
<snap-l> Diablo Swing ORchestra
<snap-l> jcastro: I like rugs in moderation
 * snap-l knows that will come back to bite him someday.
<jcastro> sure, I like small rugs, for the shoes and whatnot
<jcastro> but don't cover real wood. It's like, my new thing.
<jcastro> oh god, I'm becoming rick
<snap-l> We all get there someday.
 * snap-l slips jcastro the rick_h_'s anonymous card
<snap-l> Call ahead for meeting times
<rick_h_> jcastro: yea, I'm with you
<rick_h_> but then again not everyone puts in a nice wood floor, just a cheap one
<rick_h_> and some people *gasp* don't appreciate the look of a nice wood floor
<rick_h_> see every bit of 'modern' furniture made of plastic/composites/etc
<jcastro> they should be killed
<snap-l> That's like not appreciating air
 * rick_h_ starts printing snap-l's card as well :P
<snap-l> Good for 1 free throttling
<snap-l> Hey, I like wood
 * snap-l knows that will come back to bite him someday.
<snap-l> Apparently I just love wood and rugs
<snap-l> and cheap plastic
<brousch> enough about your fetishes. This is a family channel
<snap-l> (sorry)
<snap-l> http://arstechnica.com/security/2013/01/critical-java-vulnerability-made-possible-by-earlier-incomplete-patch/
<snap-l> Oracle: the gift that keeps on giving
<jcastro> Java was making people suffer long before oracle came around
<jcastro> they just make it feel better when you do so
<snap-l> I don't remember this level of security tom-foolery
<snap-l> Seriously, they should just open up the code, give it to Apache, and just build Sun hardware.
<snap-l> this is ridiculous
<jcastro> nope
<jcastro> I'm pretty sure no one wants Sun hardware anymore either. :p
<snap-l> jcastro: Apparently someone is buying them
<jcastro> People buy meth too
<jcastro> http://www.jorgecastro.org/2013/01/11/juju-and-maas-for-human-beings/
<snap-l> Probably the same set
<jcastro> BEHOLD MY VIDEOS
<snap-l> http://blog.bandcamp.com/2013/01/10/bandcamp-for-fans/
<snap-l> I've been beta-testing this.
<snap-l> http://bandcamp.com/craigmaloney
<JonEdney> Greetings.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-01-12
<shakes808> hello all. I want to know if there is a way to get a project on to github.com that isn't already a git project? Is there a way to upload files into a repo?
<rick_h_> git init && git add * && ...
<CrusaderAD> Anyone here get the evolution-calendar-factory internal error?
<tony-smlr> SLMR us Live  http://www.youtube.com/user/tbemus?v=6yIO4Vd-c7U
<tony-smlr> SLMR us Live http://kwisher.dyndns-at-home.com:8000/streaming
<snap-l> Ah, open windows = A+
<brousch> snap-l: Hacking your neighbors' computers?
<snap-l> Heh
<snap-l> God, I wish they'd get rid of suspend
<snap-l> Evening ( in 8 minutes)
<snap-l> OUr damn cat has been rippy
<brousch> rippy?
<snap-l> ripping through the house
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-01-13
<rick_h_> ugh, soo tired
<rick_h_> 3yr birthday complete, house mostly cleaned
<greg-g> congrats!
<rick_h_> hah
<rick_h_> good times, had one school friend come over so fun to see them terrorize together
<rick_h_> but man I"m beat
<greg-g> I bet
<jjesse> wow congrats on 3 years
<jjesse> time for the terrible 3's
<rick_h_> yea, it's really fun but tiring
<dzho> man what a fun age
<snap-l> Good morning
<ColonelPanic001> 'morning
<rick_h_> party
<jrwren> 3s is hell. fun but hell.
<jrwren> congrats on party.
<jrwren> 4s and 5s is hell too, still fun and still hell ;)
<rick_h_> hah, yea. Everything is pulling teeth but at least there's some fun in it
 * snap-l created a script in Python to generate a playlist for the Metalinjection.fm show
<snap-l> What started off life as a "hey, wouldn't it be neat if I" turned into a neat automation exercine
<snap-l> exercise
<jrwren> nice
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-01-06
<snap-l> brousch7: Exactly
<rick_h_> and the piles at the end of my driveway are chest-high
<rick_h_> done for tonight
<gamerchick02> rick_h_ get some rest.
<snap-l> rick_h_: Dear God that's a lot of snow
<waldo323> is there a meeting tonight?
<waldo323> or did i miss it?
<rick_h_> waldo323: no mtg tonight
<waldo323> ok thanks
<rick_h_> heh, love this range 36 hour total snowfall accumulations from Saturday evening through early Monday morning will range from 8 to 16 inches
<rick_h_> morning
<rick_h_> and no, not going with good
<_stink_> hah
<_stink_> wife has to work, so we already dug out
<brousch> It only took 50 minutes to clean off my cars, drive 4 miles to daycare, and then 2 miles to work.
<rick_h_> http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7460/11797224845_dbb8682592_h.jpg
<rick_h_> only took me 2 hours more clearing since 9pm last night
<rick_h_> wheeee
<brousch> I think you have more than we do
<brousch> You are double-wide though
<rick_h_> so the spotters had 13" last night before midnight and it was still coming down
<brousch> The worst part is down by the street where I have to throw snow on piles higher than my head
<rick_h_> yep, same here
<rick_h_> and I'm on the outside of a curve in the street
<rick_h_> so all the slush gets pushed to my side of the road
<rick_h_> it's ice balls down there at the end
<rick_h_> but I give up down there, my cars can get through it
<brousch> Yeah. As long as the cars can get through, fuckit
<brousch> We both got new tires this year
<rick_h_> I've done enough that the UPS man can't sue me if he falls and breaks his neck today
<brousch> Keep the mailbox clean
<rick_h_> yea, tried my best there :/
<rick_h_> keep the junk mail though, I don't care
<brousch> I told George I killed 2 frost giants last night with my mighty shovel Shjonir. I had him convinces for a while
<rick_h_> lol
<brousch> One pile kind of looks like a giant's body
<snap-l> Good morning
<snap-l> This is way too much snow. I'd like to return it with a 15% restocking fee
<brousch> Shipping is going to kill you
<snap-l> I'll pay for pickup. :)
<brousch> I recommend you deal with it by consuming as much as possible and then urinating on the rest
<_stink_> in that order?
<snap-l> brousch: I am interested in your product and would like to subscribe to your newsletter.
<brousch> _stink_: For you, do it in the opposite order :P
<_stink_> mmm
<brousch> The yellow is lemon. You will like it
<snap-l> With just a hint of iron
<jcastro> rick_h_, I won't be leaving my house for like 4 days
<jcastro> what you have shoveled is what I had before I went to bed
<jcastro> now ... I am buried again
<rick_h_> jcastro: hah, going to take the wife to work in a bit and run by starbucks
<rick_h_> jcastro: yea, I'm not getting crap done today
<rick_h_> jcastro: and I've got a snow thrower on my amz wishlist and trying hard to avoid hitting 'buy'
<jcastro> I'm going to call someone I think
<jcastro> but even then, have to wait for the sub to get plowed
<rick_h_> jcastro: yea, or walk the neighborhood like a girl scout with cookies
<snap-l> OK there's more snow coming down
<snap-l> I think I'm starting to understand The Shining
<rick_h_> is there more?
<snap-l> and the folks in The American House were singing "Let It Snow" on Saturday
<snap-l> I think they were secretly singing an incantation.
<jcastro> hard to tell if it'
<rick_h_> Partly cloudy skies this morning will become overcast during the afternoon. Slight chance of a shower late. High 44F. Winds ESE at 5 to 10 mph.
<rick_h_> portland dammit
<jcastro> s still coming down or if it's just the wind
<brousch> rick_h_: Please buy the snowthrower. By the time it arrives snow will be done for the season, thanks to your purchase
<rick_h_> yea, supposed to get 25mph winds today
<snap-l> jcastro: This is looking fresh
<snap-l> or more a mixture of blowing and fresh snow.
<rick_h_> with wind chills of below any witches body part
<snap-l> I'm going to have to go to the garage to get a shovel to shovel out our side porch so I can get to the real shovel.
<rick_h_> lol
<brousch> snap-l: Pro-tip: Stick your shovel in the snow bank closest to the door
<rick_h_> yea, I've left ours on the front porch on a mat
<rick_h_> it leaves a rust mark otherwise
<rick_h_> just walk out the front door and start there
<snap-l> brousch: Yeah, I have ours in the side porch for just such occasions.
<snap-l> Worst case I crawl through the window.
<snap-l> Drives JoDee nuts when I do that but since she suggested it this morning...
<brousch> Tell her to take care of the shoveling if she doesn't like it :P
<snap-l> hah
<rick_h_> yea, erica came out this morning "what are you doing out here? You've been out here for two hours"
<snap-l> brousch: I'd rather shovel the snow, not have to sleep in it
<rick_h_> It took some restaraint to not throw her in a pile and tell her to swim out/home
<jcastro> I can't believe rick's driveway is so clean
<snap-l> rick_h_: She was worried.
<brousch> My wife shoveled once yesterday
<jcastro> there's no way I could do that with only one person
<jjesse> i shoveled 3 times yesterday
<jjesse> and then once this morning
<snap-l> jcastro: Ask rick_h_ about his secret weapon
<rick_h_> :P
<jcastro> "I have a heated driveway"
<jjesse> but i live at the top of a hill so everything blows my way
<brousch> jjesse: I skipped this morning and just drove over the fresh 3"
<snap-l> Hey, I was 10 seconds away from ordering one
<snap-l> until I realized it wouldn't show up until Thursday.
<rick_h_> snap-l: cheaper than the thrower I've got in my basket
<rick_h_> snap-l: snow in the 10 day forecast
<snap-l> My UPS driver will love me for this.
<brousch> I want a snow roomba. It just wanders the driveway melting the snow away
<snap-l> Ordered.
<rick_h_> I amazoned a lawn mower, http://www.flickr.com/photos/7508761@N03/11738876955/, and more
<snap-l> Got the 24" rather than the 30".
<jcastro> CES is going to be awesome today
<rick_h_> my ups man never knows if it's going to be a little thing or two person dolly load
<snap-l> The 30" is 79.99. 24" is 37.99
<jcastro> hmm, roku is announcing a TV
<snap-l> jcastro: I'd be surprised if it ships.
<jcastro> me too
<rick_h_> snap-l: coolio
 * snap-l wonders if I should pay extra for shipping it sooner. :)
<snap-l> hah. It won't let me next-day air it. :)
<snap-l> Maybe I could have it gift wrapped
<snap-l> Nope.
<snap-l> Damn.
<snap-l> Heh, apparently I'm playing snap-l today.
<jjesse> roku is announing partnering with 2 tv companie
<jjesse> article on the verge or something
<jjesse> instead of the tv companies coming up with an app store or building an os it just leverages roku
<brousch> http://www.accuweather.com/en/aq/amundsen-scott-south-pole-station/2258520/weather-forecast/2258520 vs http://www.wunderground.com/cgi-bin/findweather/getForecast?query=41.878113,-87.629799
<jjesse> yeah saw it was warmer at the south pole than at o'hare airport
<brousch> That's hilarious
<rick_h_> oh the possiblities! http://r.bmark.us/u/7c7f987750597a
<jrwren> ugh.
<jrwren> android sucks
<brousch> Some cars already run Linux
<rick_h_> shove off
<rick_h_> auto company platforms all suck
<jrwren> anything but android.
<jrwren> i'm a member of the ABA society.
<rick_h_> they need to quit trying to run their own things so much and get on board with a much better experience
<jrwren> i agree.
<rick_h_> the GM stuff is awful, the stuff in my VW has so many horrible small issues/bugs it drives me bonkers
<jrwren> rick_h_: i saw some drivers yesterday just driving around for fun, drifting.
<rick_h_> jrwren: my kin :)
<jrwren> yup,made me think of you.
<brousch> Android is the bizomb
<jrwren> it was a WRX, whihc was awesome, but it was following a miata!
<jrwren> brousch: ist the bizom old right
<rick_h_> yea, the main roads aren't that bad tbh
<jrwren> i've not been out since friday
<rick_h_> jrwren: now if you saw that down any of the dirt roads in the area :)
<rick_h_> that's where the fun it, where the ruts are as deep as your tires
<jrwren> yes, they were
<jrwren> there is a dirt road few hundred feet from my house
<jrwren> so they were hitting that and circling back to our circle
<rick_h_> lol
<greg-g> nice
<greg-g> Midori (my subaru) yerns for the opportunity
<greg-g> even when going to Tahoe, the most I can do is hope for a bunch of snow on the drive up through the mountains (which is more tense than fun) 'cuz once you're in Tahoe, the roads are manicured for all the rich people's lexuses
<rick_h_> cmaloney: http://fitbit.cmail2.com/t/ViewEmail/r/2BBBCA7AF26761722540EF23F30FEDED/44F2A453140EAD9BB3138EAD4DECE712
<brousch> I kind of want this http://reviews.cnet.com/desktops/hp-slate-21-pro/4505-3118_7-35833756.html
<rick_h_> hah, ok I want one. I used to have a stack of these things http://r.bmark.us/u/0c9ed98ffc97fb
<rick_h_> feeling router nostalgia
<brousch> I have 2 of those still in service at work
<brousch> wrt54g
<brousch> wait, one of them is the wap version
<brousch> rick_h_: I'll take 4 please
<widox> rick_h_: ah yes, I've been waiting for a smart crockpot too!
<widox> "the first smartphone controllable slow cooker."
<widox> haha
<rick_h_> widox: yea, I'm not sold on those thing
<rick_h_> not until you're not vendor locked into things
<rick_h_> jcastro: did you get someone out to plow that pic on G+?
<brousch> widox: That sounds a lot more useful than a toaster or fridge
<jcastro> rick_h_, guys driving in the neighborhood
<jcastro> jill flagged them down
<rick_h_> jcastro: nice
<rick_h_> jcastro: you win then. I'd have paid $$ to have it done if it was available
<jcastro> $60 is the going rate it seems
<jcastro> I don'
<jcastro> t mind shovelling
<rick_h_> I'm having a hard time keeping my eyes open...nap time
<jcastro> but it's too much, I can keep this clean I hope
<rick_h_> I don't either, but after a foot...I'm done
<rick_h_> now the wind is blowing sideways and it's crazy out there
<brousch> You boys need to snow blower-up!
<greg-g> the only thing that'll get me to go to g+ directly are snow/stuck cars/etc pictures :)
<rick_h_> brousch: don't tempt me today
<rick_h_> I just need s nap and I'll get over it, but yesterday/today has been so close to hitting the buy button
<greg-g> snowblower is only really needed west of the big lake
<rick_h_> I mean, I've got probably 10hrs of shoveling in this weekend
<greg-g> I mean, west of the lake, and then for 50 miles east
<rick_h_> would have paid for itself in one day :/
<rick_h_> jcastro: looks like you guys got about 6-8" ish?
<rick_h_> or maybe the pic is deceptive
<brousch> greg-g: The funny thing about this current storm system is it's coming East to West, so rick_h_ gets all of my lake effect snow
<rick_h_> hah
<rick_h_> gee thanks
<rick_h_> it's great driving
<rick_h_> I've had some good fun for sure
<brousch> Chicago is getting pounded too
<rick_h_> so so so glad I went through the pita to get the new wheels/snow tires
<brousch> Yes. New tires made a huge difference this year
<rick_h_> and the touareg weight just go through stuff
<jcastro> rick_h_, they're saying a foot
<jcastro> but I haven't been out
<rick_h_> the subaru floats a lot more and is more fun
<rick_h_> but the touareg takes it like it's a job, 'jfdi' style
<rick_h_> jcastro: yea, looking like we got around 15, AA around 12, south down royal oak way seems more 7ish
<greg-g> yeah, the float of the subaru is fun, but not always smart :)
<rick_h_> up by flint got 17 :/
<rick_h_> greg-g: yea, but that's the diff between driving int he snow for fun or for getting somewhere
 * greg-g nods
<jcastro> the main streets look fine
<jcastro> subdivision is totally not plowed though
<jcastro> I'll go out for lunch though, ran out of food
<jcastro> shitty planning
<greg-g> hah
<jcastro> but luckily my car was made in sweden, it dominates in the snow
<cmaloney> I'd love to know how my car window was down in the Caliber
<cmaloney> managed to get some snow in it
<rick_h_> cmaloney: :/
<brousch> cmaloney: A hobo slept in it last night
<brousch> Welcome to Detroit
<greg-g> jcastro: what do you drive?
<jcastro> I have a volvo s60
<jcastro> AWD
<greg-g> ahh, yeah, that'll float just like the outback
<cmaloney> brousch: har har
<cmaloney> though we did hear something rustling around last night
<rick_h_> greg-g: +1
<rick_h_> but it's fun :)
<greg-g> def
<greg-g> I almost got stuck with my outback in MPLS one winter when there was over a foot of snow. I was going through the back parts of the city (where the abandoned grain elevators are, for instance), and there was a drift I kinda accidentally paused over/in. Just a bit of jockying and it was free.
<greg-g> the best part was parking on the street. I see all these people desparately trying to dig out their cars, I come out of the house, shovel out just enough to open the door (the plow had gone by), and let the car warm up, then SMASH, out I go. :)
<brousch> My wife's subarus have never gotten stuck, but my minivan has
<greg-g> your wife has more than one car?
<rick_h_> lol
<rick_h_> greg-g: yea, never stop that's the key
<brousch> greg-g: She has had 2 subaru foresters
<rick_h_> outback or bust!
<rick_h_> :)
<brousch> I like the outback better, but it's her car
<brousch> smoother ride
<rick_h_> greg-g: so I was talking with my wife about when we get her a new car we should get a family one that we both use more often and then maybe a truck we drive only when we have to
<greg-g> yes
<rick_h_> greg-g: and her first thing was "Is the outback a family car? I loved how I could just toss my skis in it and go"
<greg-g> +1000
<rick_h_> she's so sold, she laughs at how she thought I might be strange when we first met driving one
<rick_h_> now that she drives it full time she's in love :)
<greg-g> I *really* want to find an older Ford truck somewhere, and then find it's mate (exact same model/year) a bit later for parts. Oh, and some land to put them on :)
<rick_h_> brousch: yea, the outback is put together better. My last one I thought I wanted the forrester as it 'feels' bigger
<rick_h_> quieter, smoother ride, much nicer imo
<rick_h_> greg-g: yea, I want something to tow an airstream with
<rick_h_> greg-g: so thinking a diesel f250, not a daily driver though
<rick_h_> so we'd need to 'share' the family-mobile
 * greg-g nods
<rick_h_> and since I work from home/etc it's not a big deal. the whole his/her car thing kind of sucks
<greg-g> I'd be fine with an older F150, honestly. The new ones are too purty to beat up.
<rick_h_> hah
<rick_h_> I like my in-car electronics
<greg-g> heh, yeah, I'm ok with a tape deck
<rick_h_> though I could get a after market BT enabled head unit and be fine
 * greg-g was listening to his first ever purchased tape in the car yesterday
<brousch> greg-g: Let the two old fords sit in afield and rust together, just like every farm from your childhood?
<rick_h_> that's the only thing I need
<greg-g> brousch: that's the long term goal, but the mid term is to use them :)
<rick_h_> hah
<rick_h_> the boy is going to get caught 'driving' the old truck on blocks in the field pretending it's a race car
<greg-g> 'zactly!
<rick_h_> I gotcha greg-g :)
<greg-g> life goal #51292
<brousch> It will be all electric and self-driving by then
<greg-g> and expensive
<greg-g> wth did my phone just reboot
<brousch> NSA pushed some spyware bug fixes
<greg-g> "Fixes Bug#224919: Greg's voice was a little garbeled when he was talking to his wife about..."
 * rick_h_ feels so strange doing a 'pip install azure'
<rick_h_> lol at the windows terminal screenshots http://www.windowsazure.com/en-us/develop/python/common-tasks/install-python/
<rick_h_> s/windows terminal/putty
<gamerchick02> did anyone go into work today?
 * greg-g raises hand
<rick_h_> working here :)
<greg-g> but I live in the bay area :)
<rick_h_> long walk to the basement, it's cold down here
<gamerchick02> wait. you're not in Michigan with a 4 billion tons of white bullshit
<gamerchick02> do you have snowshoes, rick_h_
<gamerchick02> :-P
<brousch> I went to work
<gamerchick02> i'm not sure i can get out of my complex right now
<rick_h_> gamerchick02: no, but I saw a ladie cross country ski'ing through the neighborhood yesterday
<rick_h_> was a funny sight
<gamerchick02> that... is pretty dang smart actually
<gamerchick02> i wonder if i could snowshoe down Squirrel to get to Chrysler? :-P
<greg-g> Carrie (wife) would going xc skiing the night of a big storm on the sidewalks in Ann Arbor, no one had shoveled yet so it was perfect
<greg-g> (I may have already said that like 3 times in this channel, sorry)
<greg-g> I'm just a bot, really
<gamerchick02> lol
<gamerchick02> i didn't notice, greg-g so it's new to me
<greg-g> or a dad that tells the same stories all the time
<brousch> greg-g: But you have all of wikipedia from which to draw your responses, which makes you very believable
<gamerchick02> that's perfectly fine.
<rick_h_> greg-g: I'm with you there. I've got my bank of stories and everyone just has to deal with them
<gamerchick02> hah
<greg-g> :)
<gamerchick02> it's like you have a backpack full of stories and you just pull one out that's appropriate to the circumstances.
<greg-g> indeed, makes small talk easier
<gamerchick02> yes
<cmaloney> http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2014/01/linksys-resurrects-classic-blue-router-with-open-source-and-300-price/
<cmaloney> Love that Belkin is releasing an OSS router
<cmaloney> but typical of Belkin it's about double what I'd pay for one.
<gamerchick02> holy bloody hell why $300?
<cmaloney> gamerchick02: Because it's Belkin. :)
<rick_h_> cisco
<rick_h_> linksys
<rick_h_> or did belkin buy linksys from cisco?
<cmaloney> Belkin bought Linksys from Cicso
<gamerchick02> who knows but $300 is a lot of money to pay for a router.
<rick_h_> gotcha
<gamerchick02> that's approaching PS4 prices.
<gamerchick02> :-P
<cmaloney> Pretty much
<brousch> That's less than $100/antenna
<gamerchick02> i have a flat black one from linksys that i think i paid $660 for
<gamerchick02> $60
<gamerchick02> not $660. dangit i think my hands are cold.
<cmaloney> Honestly if I get back into the router market this is going to be a serious contender
<cmaloney> esp. if it supports Tomato. :)
<gamerchick02> my pizza supports tomato. :-P
<jrwren> openwrt is looking very good these days.
<rick_h_> says shipping openwrt support ootb
<cmaloney> Yeah
<jrwren> but I only say that because 30c3 presentation was so good
<cmaloney> jrwren: I flash all of my routers with stuff I get from third parties online
<gamerchick02> our first router ran tomato. on an old computer that my brother set up
<cmaloney> because sadly I trust them more than I trust the manufacturers
<gamerchick02> it was my old computer. it is in computer heaven now.
<cmaloney> (although telling me to go to 4shared for a router image is a bit hard to swallow. :) )
<gamerchick02> i don't think i've don anything for the linksys except put passwords on it and do a minor amount of fiddling.
<gamerchick02> *shrug*
<cmaloney> http://www.myopenrouter.com/download/list?sort=date&cat=75
<greg-g> oh my god forums are not a place to do software releases
<cmaloney> greg-g: That drives me insane
<gamerchick02> hah
<cmaloney> Squeezebox shit is all in Forum posts
<greg-g> so much hate
<brousch> Android
<greg-g> so much
<cmaloney> 100 pages later you get the updated release.
<greg-g> them too
<greg-g> github or sourceforge, do you speak it?!
<brousch> SF, so they can bundle an ad service with my ROM?
<cmaloney> I don't even care if you do all of your development discussion in a forum; at least have a page where I can find the latest release without having to go through a thread where you released .09beta.
<cmaloney> Seriously that's baby-punching time
<greg-g> brousch: touche
<gamerchick02> ouch
<jrwren> cmaloney: me too, not just trust of privacy, but also trust of quality
<gamerchick02> that awkward moment  you look for the new music you downloaded but... you forgot to extract the zips and put the folders in your music directory. ooops
<cmaloney> gamerchick02: So, yesterday.
<gamerchick02> hah. today actually for me
<jrwren> i usually don't look for the music, then find the zips, weeks, months, or years later,then finally listen
<gamerchick02> LOL
<gamerchick02> i downloaded yesterday after finding over holiday break and am listening today
<cmaloney> My problem is I'll download a crap-ton of music for OMC and then not use all of it for a few episodes
<cmaloney> and then it'll sit in my collection until I run into it again
<cmaloney> oney Seriously that's baby-punching time                â _stink_
<cmaloney> 13:09:blerch. One sec.
<cmaloney> http://paste.ubuntu.com/6704606/
<cmaloney> That's my Squeezebox statistics from this morning
<cmaloney> The genres is off so ignore that
<gamerchick02> wow
<gamerchick02> 11924 songs for me
<cmaloney> That's all of my music on my machine. :)
<gamerchick02> just a quick look in banshee
<greg-g> I'm sorry, iphone users deserve to have their week ruined if this is all it takes: https://twitter.com/MattRichenburg/status/419565002052222977
<gamerchick02> WTF is he talking about?
<gamerchick02> a spacing issue? for realsies?
<cmaloney> OMC library: 6,861 songs
<brousch> Inexcusable. Someone will be fired for that.
<gamerchick02> wow
<cmaloney> I think someone is playing.
<greg-g> http://community.websense.com/blogs/securitylabs/archive/2013/12/29/dr-watson.aspx
<cmaloney> Color me surprised.
<cmaloney> Doctor Watson probably still groks Windows 98 without too much trouble. ;)
<jjesse> yeah saw that before wasn't surprised either
<greg-g> lack of surprise != not bad
<greg-g> I think the "snowden stuff" (for lack of a better word) is putting everyone in the "not surprised anymore" apathy camp
<greg-g> (not saying you two are)
<jrwren> 22285 songs for me :)
<gamerchick02> we all have a lot of music
<jjesse> well i always figured it was happening and we were just bein lied to
<jjesse> maybe its the pessimit in me
<jrwren> i always knew.
<greg-g> so we're all ok with it?
<jrwren> its sending at least stack traces and may be heap dumps, so if it was in teh processes memory, it was getting sent.
<jrwren> it depends on the app if i'm ok with it.
<jjesse> well not really ok with it
<jrwren> sadly, i can't control that feature on an app by app basis.
<greg-g> jrwren: for the proverbial "mom" situation?
 * greg-g nods
<greg-g> so, no
<jjesse> also did you see what is going on w/ the logs in the evernote app for Mac? storing everything in clear text or whatever i nthe log
<greg-g> step 1: inform
<greg-g> step 2: do something
<jjesse> http://jasonkincaid.net/2014/01/evernote-the-bug-ridden-elephant/
<greg-g> hah
<jjesse> so when you open up a support ticket they ask for your logs
<jjesse> which contain your note
<greg-g> "convenient"
<rick_h_> bah, "live videos are not supported by chromecast"
<rick_h_> punks
<rick_h_> and youtube fail
<jrwren> for comparison, i don't think you can facetime with appletv
<rick_h_> curse you technology
<brousch> A guy asked me how to forward a few photos from his iphone to email. I could not figure out how to do it. iphone email has no button or menu or anything to attach a file.
<rick_h_> ooooh, pebble steel! take my $$
<jrwren> brousch: you actually CANT!!!
<brousch> How uuseful
<jrwren> brousch: you have to enter the photo app, pick the photos and share via email
<jrwren> you cna't do it from teh email app.
<jrwren> I know, its TERRIBLE!!!
<jrwren> one of my iOS hate peeves
<brousch> The peeze I always run into on iOS is the keyboard not changing for capital or lower case letters. I am typing a name. Is the letter I type upper case or lower case? I have no idea until I type it
<brousch> And Apple doesn't let you install a better keyboard?
<jrwren> the shift key highlights.
<jrwren> i got used to that in minutes.
<jrwren> you would too :p
<brousch> The shift was not highlighted, and it typed an upper case letter
<jrwren> weird
<brousch> Next letter, shift was not highlighted, it typed a lower case letter
<brousch> First letter of last name
<jrwren> start of new sentence?
<brousch> Anyways. Every time I use an idevice I go away enraged
<jjesse> look the part about the photos not being able to be shared from the email makes sense
<jjesse> every app within iOS is a sandbox, everything exists in that sandbox
<jjesse> which makes it easy to wipe one app and wipe the data
<brousch> It does not make sense. I want to attach a photo to an email like I have done for decades. This is impossible
<brousch> Even the solutions seem to embed the photo into the email instead of attach it
<jrwren> jjesse: they could have added a button to invoke the photo sharing api as every other app has to.
<jrwren> brousch: embed and attach, what is the difference?
<brousch> HTML email vs plain old email with attachment?
<jcastro> greg-g, you were right I sailed on right out of the sub
<jcastro> getting back in though I made a critical error and slowed down
<jcastro> luckily some guys were around for the push
<jrwren> brousch: an html email is just a plain old email wiht attachment.
<jcastro> I helped a construction truck get through too
<gamerchick02> i cleaned off my car. the complex is plowed but there's knee deep drifts around the cars. i took some poor sod's spot because i know i can get out of it
<gamerchick02> i double-downed on pants with my cargos on top of a pair of flannel pj pants (and no i don't have long underwear here)
<jrwren> good call
<jrwren> i did same, flanel PJ under my pants.
<jrwren> i was WARM
<jrwren> took off my scarf and hat
<jrwren> it was a good workout shoveling
<gamerchick02> well, i was til i DROPPED MY KEYS in a snowdrift
<gamerchick02> >_<
<jrwren> GAH!!!
<gamerchick02> and couldn't find them except without glove removal and kneeling down in the snow
<gamerchick02> THAT was cold!!
<gamerchick02> brousch, you don't like ios at all? granted i don't use it for more than games, music, and podcasts...
<gamerchick02> i have an ipod touch
<brousch> I don't own an iOS device. All of my attempts at usage are typing in wifi passwords for other people and attempts to help them do routine tasks, like attach a photo to an email
<brousch> The unchanging keyboard drives me nuts on wifi password (and you can't choose to have it show what you've typed)
<rick_h_> some like one some like hte other
<rick_h_> why do we have to spent so much time on it?
<rick_h_> spend
<rick_h_> bah
<brousch> Because Ford is better than Chevy and Coke is better than Pepsi, and the Lions are better than the Bears
<rick_h_> see...then you had to go and speak some fighting words
<gamerchick02> brousch i get you. that's what i hate about ios and why i won't be using it for my phone
<gamerchick02> i <3 swiftkey too much :-P
<rick_h_> let me know when you get a new coach lion fan :P
<brousch> rick_h_: I actually care 0 shits about football
<jcastro> new coach won't fix the lions
<jcastro> the only thing that can fix the lions is the Fords selling the team
<rick_h_> right, because they're out there playing on the field :P
<brousch> I watched 5 minutes of U-M football this year. That is all of the football I watched
<jcastro> rick_h_, if owners don't care about winning they will have organizations that don't care about winning
<gamerchick02> i don't think the Fords want the Lions to win
<rick_h_> jcastro: let me know how jerry jones and the skins owner work out for you
<jrwren> pigskin egg carrying
<rick_h_> jcastro: they've been doing a lot...or no winner as well :)
<jcastro> rick_h_, teams have ups and downs
<gamerchick02> they have the highest beer prices in the NFL. i think like $8 for a shitty bud lite or something
<jcastro> lions have never been up
<gamerchick02> weren't they good once in like the 50s?
<jcastro> 35 years of losing isn't an accident
<jcastro> even the Bengals got good at some point
<gamerchick02> i think it's a conspiracy wherein the Fords are betting against them all the time and they have to throw the games at the last quarter
<gamerchick02> how else can you explain other teams comebacks
<gamerchick02> ?
<rick_h_> just saying blaming the owners that hire/fire is a cop-out. The Lions lost this year on some moron on the field stuff
<jcastro> there were some shitty calls too
<gamerchick02> ofc
<jcastro> All I am saying is that the fords don't know how to own a football team
<jcastro> the only constant in 35 years of losing .. is the owner.
<gamerchick02> and high-priced crappy beer. :-P
<jcastro> you have to be really apathetic/crappy to go 35 years losing all the time
<rick_h_> that's NFL mandate
<jcastro> I mean dude, you have better odds in vegas
<gamerchick02> LOL true!
<jcastro> if tomorrow we got the best coach in the league. The best assistants, and all new players.
<jcastro> we would still lose.
<rick_h_> I watched a few lions games this year. I can't help but think many of those losses were on the field with a razor blade to the wrist and the owner had to sit and watch it while writing the checks
<jrwren> browns should merge with lions
<jcastro> the browns did it right
<jcastro> they just said "fuck this place"
<jcastro> and left
<jcastro> and a new team came in
<jcastro> If we're lucky the fords will move to Chicago. :p
<jcastro> and then we can start over
<jcastro> ok course they can take the lions with them
<jcastro> But all jesting aside; they see the Lions as revenue generating, so business as usual.
<jcastro> as long as Detroiters keep buying Lions stuff and paying for $8 Miller Lites, they'll keep milking it
<jrwren> i would too
<jrwren> its good business
<jcastro> sure
<jrwren> only wish i could buy in on the action
<jcastro> it's just not good football
<jrwren> greenbay has it right
<jcastro> that's why I watch the Wings. :)
<jcastro> because he knows the more Cups he brings home the more I will buy.
<gamerchick02> +1 to the wings
<gamerchick02> hockey is a better sport anyway *ducks*
<jcastro> it is!
<jrwren> its a canadian sport.
<jrwren> i prefer korean sport: starcraft2
<jcastro> and even if you prefer football, MSU is the better team
<jcastro> 42-14, MSU over the Lions.
<jcastro> would be the score.
<jcastro> I would say U-M could have beat the lions this year ....
<jcastro> but let's not get ahead of ourselves.
<gamerchick02> lol jcastro
<gamerchick02> i do think MSU would beat the Lions
<cmaloney> I wish there was something like the curse of the Bambino that we could say was the problem with the Lions
<cmaloney> Something cool and My-STER-I-Ous
<cmaloney> Like someone got kicked out of Ford Field with his goat back in the 1800s and said "You'll never go to the superbowl"
<cmaloney> But again, I couldn't care less about the Lions or any Football / Baseball / Basketball / Sportball
<brousch> jcastro: I always wondered why the Lions didn't recruit more players from U-M and MSU. It seems like they could take better advantage of fans that already exist
<cmaloney> Now Hockey... that's a sport I could give a puck about.
<gamerchick02> :)
<cmaloney> brousch: Probably because UofM or MSU students would commit hari-kari if they were picked by the Lions
<gamerchick02> i reduced my cable channels so no hockey for me. i can listen via the web or radio.
<gamerchick02> lol cmaloney
<cmaloney> "I'm a first round draft pick for the Lions? Bring me my sword."
<cmaloney> At least if you're out of state you won't have nearly the same reaction.
<gamerchick02> but they always trade their first rounds for a different player or three from another team
<cmaloney> "Yay! I'm no longer in [insert name of podunkville]"
<jrwren> greg-g: just saw your priviledge post. great. ty.
<jcastro> man awesome
<jcastro> I was shovelling over lunch
<jcastro> and there was this clunk
<jcastro> So I dig it out
<jcastro> an entire frozen dog pee clump of ice.
<rick_h_> jcastro: lucky you
<jrwren> ahahaha
<greg-g> jrwren: thanks man
<gamerchick02> oh ew
<jrwren> anyone with rabbitmq experience via pika?
<Havenstance> about tired of this cold already...
<greg-g> boy is it tough to remember when you ate the last 2 days
 * greg-g is starting a food diary, for a number of reasons
<greg-g> if you skip 2 days, you're fucked, at least my memory is
<jrwren> oh no greg-g, say it isn't so!
<jrwren> greg-g: gluten is your friend!
<greg-g> hahahaha
<greg-g> uh, no comment?
<greg-g> to be less obtuse: yeah, paleo ish, but not strict. I'm going to go "carb loading" days twice a week
<greg-g> where "carb loading" == "about the same amount of carbs a normal american eats in a day"
<greg-g> really, the food diary is to figure out if it is helping or not, cuz, well, TMI ;)
<greg-g> s/going to go/going to have/
<greg-g> or maybe I meant "do", whatever
<gamerchick02> what on earth is carb loading? i just try to eat balanced and not too much chocolate which is hard right now because of lady issues.
<gamerchick02> TMI i know sorry guys
<greg-g> :)
<greg-g> gamerchick02: carb loading is normally associated with athletes the day before a big event. eg: we all ate big pasta dinners in high school the day before a cross country race
<gamerchick02> ah
<gamerchick02> why do you want to do this now?
<greg-g> in my context, it'll be: "eating a normal amount of carbs" because my daily carb intake will be very low
<gamerchick02> ah ok
<greg-g> where "normal" == "average american-ish"
<jrwren> greg-g: the problem is, some changes take weeks or months to change your body.
<gamerchick02> take my carbs from my cold dead hands.
<greg-g> jrwren: agreed
<gamerchick02> i'm trying to move more to compensate for them.
<greg-g> it ain't easy trying to fix the things
<jrwren> greg-g: are you going to nocarb for 6 weeks and get to ketosis?
<greg-g> I do have some issues to address: hypoglecemia, irritable bowel (for lack of a better phrase), etc
<greg-g> jrwren: I can't t even if I wanted to
<jrwren> why not?
<jrwren> hypoglecemia?
<greg-g> yeah
<greg-g> tring to get rid of that first :/
<greg-g> I get major headaches on the days i don't eat carbs in the morning, not cured by coffee
<jrwren> i should monitor mine and blood pressure more closely. but if I ain't dead, then oh well.
<greg-g> :)
<jrwren> how much coffee do you drink?
<greg-g> it's not just the notion of "be better" for me its "get not bad"
<greg-g> a french press/day
<greg-g> ie: 2 mugs
<greg-g> not one of those huge presses, but not a tiny one
<jrwren> 6oz mugz, so likely 12oz, that is not much
<greg-g> yeah, about that
<gamerchick02> no that's not too bad
<greg-g> yeah, coffee ain't my problem
<gamerchick02> i usually do a "medium" at work and that's it for the coffee. sometimes a pop at lunch but not usually.
<greg-g> the sugar in food is :/
<jrwren> thinkpad lovers: end your love: http://www.lenovo.com/images/subseries/lenovo-laptop-thinkpad-x1-carbon-2-keyboard.png
<jrwren> WORST KEYBOARD EVER!!!
<greg-g> gawd i hate those keyboards
<gamerchick02> what's wrong with it?
 * greg-g holds tightly onto his x200s
<rick_h_> with your high res screen
<greg-g> I should look at ebay for some more of this gen x-series
<jrwren> home end to right of a is where the ctrl key goes
<gamerchick02> oh.
<gamerchick02> i like my macbook air keyboard *ducks*
<greg-g> you better
<greg-g> ;)
<gamerchick02> i paid enough for it. :-P
 * rick_h_ is back on the kenesis for the past week
<jrwren> gamerchick02: i like my macbookair keyboard too... once I turn capslock into ctrl
<greg-g> rick_h_: well done, sir
<gamerchick02> goddamnit i'm gonna have to fire up the space heater.
<gamerchick02> jrwren, i don't do that. are you running linux on it or OSX?
<rick_h_> gamerchick02: yea, after I go out and pick up the wife from work the fireplace will be started
<jrwren> gamerchick02: OSX
<jrwren> gamerchick02: i've never used capslock, and I use a lot of vim
<gamerchick02> ah!
<jrwren> gamerchick02: and vi was written on a ADM3A
<gamerchick02> rick_h_ that's a good idea
<jrwren> gamerchick02: and the ADM3A has ctrl to the left of A
<jrwren> gamerchick02: and now so do I :)
<cmaloney> Honestly that's a pretty dumb keyobard decision
<gamerchick02> jrwren, that's interesting. i don't use vim much.
<rick_h_> the horror!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
<cmaloney> I doubt you'll see more than one or two revs with that
<rick_h_> jrwren: the latest thing is https://floobits.com/
<jrwren> cmaloney: i know!!! its NUTS!
<rick_h_> jrwren: we've been testing it between the sublime and vim users
<rick_h_> well, guys on the team have
<gamerchick02> floobits looks cool
<jrwren> floobits looks sweet
<gamerchick02> i don't code but if i did and had to collaboratively, i'd use that.
<gamerchick02> i was re-reading the bit about floobits and it sounds like something out of harry potter. sorry.
<cmaloney> heh
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-01-07
<cmaloney> Evening
<rick_h_> party
<gamerchick02> a snow party
<jrwren_> lol at someone going off on whoopsie in #ubuntu-server
<jrwren_> sounds just like our Dr. Watson conversation
<Havenstance> good evening
<cmaloney> OK, archive.org just yelled at me because I didn't use leading zeroes for the date for my podcast.
<cmaloney> [2014] [1] [6] instead of [2014] [01] [06]
<gamerchick02> ugh
<cmaloney> I didn't realize they'd legalized pot in CA because they're smoking some strong shit to enforce that.
<gamerchick02> heh
<cmaloney> greg-g: Your blog is showing a 500 error
<Havenstance> good evening
<gamerchick02> howdy havenstance
<cmaloney> Havenstance: howdy.
<Havenstance> how's everyone tonight?
<gamerchick02> lol cmaloney we're on the same wavelength
<gamerchick02> cold. but ok
<Havenstance> i hear ya there, I just got back from town
<Havenstance> church sign said -15
<gamerchick02> brrrrr
<jrwren_> cmaloney: CA, CO, they are close enough :)
<Havenstance> i think the worst part was home from town I was stuck behind a car with Florida plates...
<Havenstance> dude was going 5mph on a main highway....
<gamerchick02> ugh
<cmaloney> jrwren_: Not even secondhand buzzes can account for that. ;)
<gamerchick02> geez. that's crazy
<Havenstance> ah, time to retreat to wow. My taxi has arrived :)
<cmaloney> have fun!
<Havenstance> eh, its whatever. cursed reason i still have a Windows partition...
<gamerchick02> hah, havenstance. i have a windows partition too.i think a lot of people do
<jrwren_> the stupid linksys $300 openwrt router is an attack on open source. They want to suggest that open source is too expensive.
<cmaloney> jrwren_: OK, CO is way too far to explain that outburst. ;)
<jrwren_> cmaloney: lol
<jrwren_> greg-g: http://thefire.org/article/9865.html thoughts?
<cmaloney> jrwren_: If anyone asked me in college when I discovered my sexual identiy I think I would have left some form of smart-ass answer
<cmaloney> That's nobody's business.
<cmaloney> Also I'm pretty sure it's not a single point in time
<_stink_> i had a small experience like this during freshman orientation at WMU 13 years ago.
<_stink_> about racism.
<_stink_> orientation leaders, way out of their element and undertrained, asked to push a policital agenda
<_stink_> political
<rick_h_> heh, erica is having a fit that our weather station is reporting -14 outside
<rick_h_> and that there's frost on the inside of the doorwalls
<jrwren_> its COLD
<rick_h_> yep
<jrwren_> cmaloney: apparently smart-ass answers were met with badgering follow ups until questions were answered
<_stink_> just sent it to a cousin-in-law who is a residence hall director in Wisconsin for her thoughts.
<cmaloney> Sorry, but you're not my shrink, you're not my lover, and you're certainly not my pastor.
<cmaloney> And in all of those cases it's up to me to decide if I'll open up to you.
<cmaloney> Brrrrrrrrr.
<rick_h_> no, this is well beyond Brrrrrrrrrr
<rick_h_> "#$#@$#@$#@%#@%#$#@$@# it's cold"
<rick_h_> somehow feels more appropriate
<cmaloney> heh
<cmaloney> I'm working from home today.
<cmaloney> We have the heater on at 70F
<cmaloney> and I have a sweater on because it's still chilly in here.
<cmaloney> Our house has pretty shit insulation
<rick_h_> damn, had to call the dealer to figure out how to get into the touareg
<rick_h_> won't listen for keyfob
<rick_h_> and the subaru won't start
<rick_h_> but find the secret panel and it's going yay
<cmaloney> I think it's secretly saying "fuck you"
<rick_h_> erica's unhappy that she can't park in the garage right now
<rick_h_> I'm in deep daddy trouble
<cmaloney> rick_h_: ruh roh
<rick_h_> yea, "why does your car start and not mine"
<rick_h_> "if my car was in the garage would it start?"
<rick_h_> I'll have to find a way to get her car started today :/
<cmaloney> rick_h_: Well, on the plus side you might get to drive the Subaru again until it does. ;)
<cmaloney> http://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/introduce-yourself/1388
<brousch> I'm tired of shoveling
<cmaloney> Yep.
<brousch> Spent an hour last night, and another hour this morning
<cmaloney> brousch: Lake-effect?
<cmaloney> Luckily we haven't had the snow outside of Sunday->Monday.
<cmaloney> (knock on Ikea)
<brousch> Drifting and plow effect
<brousch> How do I subscribe to this forum to get email notifications of new posts and topics? http://discourse.ubuntu.com/category/local-teams/ubuntu-michigan
<cmaloney> I think it'll automatically send you a digest if you haven't been on there in a while.
<cmaloney> Not sure how to sub to a particular forum
<cmaloney> ACtually I think you can watch a category
<cmaloney> Here's how that works.
<cmaloney> Go to your settings
<cmaloney> under categories there's watched, tracked and muted
<cmaloney> Under tracked type "Ubuntu michigan" and it'll send you notifications for each topic posted.
<brousch> Good enough
<brousch> Though there should really be a "Track this Category" button on the category page
<cmaloney> Yeah, that would be helpful
<greg-g> cmaloney: should be better now :/
<greg-g> bad .htaccess
<rick_h_>  /ban cmaloney
<rick_h_> seems a bad rule :P
<cmaloney> I'm ?
<cmaloney> greg-g: Cool. Thanks. :)
<cmaloney> rick_h_: Yeah, make me have to work to see your content. :)
<cmaloney> That seems to be the Hollywood way. :)
<cmaloney> http://arstechnica.com/apple/2014/01/app-store-sales-surpassed-10-billion-in-2013-apple-says/
<cmaloney> It's good to be king
<brousch> Money money money
<cmaloney> Hey, it were up to me I'd control to toll booth and have everyone pay me to pass through.
<brousch> It is up to you. You have just chosen to focus on other things
<cmaloney> There's nothing more lonely than a toll booth on an empty road.
<cmaloney> save for two toll booths.
<rick_h_> damn cold, new battery acquired. Now to warm up long enough to go back out and install the dippy thing
<brousch> Battery for your big-ass snow blower?
<rick_h_> no, wife's subaru
<rick_h_> orignal 09 battery went kaput and helped get me in trouble this morning
<brousch> Heh, my wife's was a bit hesitant this morning
<brousch> Hm, also a 2009
<rick_h_> the touareg won't respond to the keyfob in the cold
<rick_h_> but once I found the secret panel to pop off to get access to a key hole, she started, but the diesel was rough starting
<rick_h_> but at least one of the cars got going this morning and all that's wrong with the other is the battery
<brousch> I wondered about that. Don't they use plug-in heaters for diesels in Canada?
<rick_h_> yea
<brousch> There's a VW Golf TDI on my street. He doesn't seem to have had trouble
<rick_h_> co-worker is up there and they use block heaters and blankets, but that's an 'option' down here because you're not supposed to need it :/
<rick_h_> I didn't say it had trouble starting, just that it was a far cry from the smooth purr it normally is
<brousch> Right
<brousch> Well if it started today, I'd say it will never be a problem
<rick_h_> yea, exactly. all uphill from here...I hope
<brousch> I'm considering the Golf TDI for my next car, so I keep an eye on the neighbor's experience
<rick_h_> I'll probably get the wife a wagon tdi for her next car at this point
<rick_h_> we'll see I guess in a few years though
<rick_h_> jcastro: meant to thank you for the bounty and plug on the monitor askubuntu thing
<brousch> Did it work?
<jcastro> did it work?
<rick_h_> yea, I've got one giant display. It's hacky as can be
<brousch> nice
<rick_h_> jcastro: http://uploads.mitechie.com/current_status.png
<brousch> Not 4 960px columns?
<rick_h_> not currently
<rick_h_> :)
<rick_h_> I have to up the font size so I go two or three splits wide and two tall
<rick_h_> so when I'm heavily working I've got a 6x6 grid
<rick_h_> err, 3x3 grid or 6 workspaces
<brousch> up the font size?!?!
<rick_h_> yea
<rick_h_> that's 14pt in the screenshot I thihnk
<rick_h_> think
<rick_h_> from 10
<brousch> Who are you and what have you done with rick_h_?
<rick_h_> or was it 8/9
<rick_h_> but no anti aliasing or type hinting
<cmaloney> Very cool
<jrwren> hello from codemash
<rick_h_> jrwren: get some bacon for me
<jrwren> already had some :)
<brousch> Now have some for me
<widox> rick_h_: that's purdy -- you like the monitor overall?
<rick_h_> widox: yea, I'm happy with it. It's a mixed bag as not everything plays nice.
<rick_h_> but everything cli is beautiful
<rick_h_> chrome and such needs some <3 but it'll get there
<brousch> Why are there problems?
<rick_h_> the UI components of gui apps
<rick_h_> they don't scale for high dpi screens
<brousch> ah
<rick_h_> so with fonts/cli I can just bump the font sizes
<rick_h_> but I can't tell chrome "scale your UX to 1.5 normal size
<brousch> Supposedly you can adjust KDE for it
<rick_h_> only if it's using that toolkit
<widox> ahh
<widox> rick_h_: does zooming in your browswer make things better?
<cmaloney> rick_h_: Your pipes are freezing?
<rick_h_> widox: often times yes
<rick_h_> widox: it depends on the site and how they setup their fonts
<rick_h_> cmaloney: yea, we've got our kitchen pipes that run between the wall in the closet of my basement up to the kitchen
<rick_h_> cmaloney: they freeze and I've got to stick a space heater in my office closet to warm the space behind it
<rick_h_> so right now, I'm space heating my office closet, go me
<cmaloney> woo woo
<rick_h_> battery in the subie replaced, up to the gas station, and filled her up with the good stuff
<rick_h_> work done today: meh ... fixing life: go go go
<rick_h_> jcastro: ruh roh http://techcrunch.com/2014/01/07/yahoo-announces-that-it-has-acquired-intelligent-homescreen-startup-aviate/
<rick_h_> at least they're not killing it off to start I guess
<jcastro> It didn't really last long on my phone
<jcastro> a week or so
<jcastro> it wasn't bad
<rick_h_> orly?
<jcastro> but it wasn't like, WOW
<rick_h_> oh, I'm still using it
<rick_h_> yea, but it's better than the default home screen stuff
<jcastro> it tries to be too smart
<jcastro> like, I want my wife's icon on the launcher
<jcastro> but it's like "you are at work, you only added her to this other context."
<rick_h_> "ok google now, call erica"
<rick_h_> gotcha
<jcastro> you use voice stuff?
<jcastro> lol
<rick_h_> hell yea
<rick_h_> all the time, I set more alarms and reminders now that ever
<rick_h_> "ok google now, reminder me to turn off the crock pot in 5 hrs"
<rick_h_> "ok google now, reminder me to call the auto glass place tomrrow afternoon"
<rick_h_> I wish it did better at music playback stuff and I'd use it there as well, but it's not right
<rick_h_> texting via voice is better now that you can send without clicking
<cmaloney> I'm still using it as well
<cmaloney> but Yahoo will likely neglect it to death
<cmaloney> or worse.
<cmaloney> "You're at work. Here's the apps that everyone else at work are using. I like purple. POST TO FLICKR?"
<gamerchick02> i made it to work today!
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-01-08
<rick_h_> wow https://code.facebook.com/posts/218678814984400/scaling-mercurial-at-facebook/
<cmaloney> Evening
<cmaloney> That's interesting that they're using Mercurial
<cmaloney> Maybe they figured it'd be easier to get patches in Mercurial than dealing with Linus et. al.
<cmaloney> good morning
<brousch> ug
<brousch> Roads are still ice. Got more snow. No good morning.
<cmaloney> brousch: How about "It is morning"?
<brousch> I don't see any sunlight. I cannot verify that remark
<rick_h_> morning
<rick_h_> hah, I can verify that the sun is beginning to rise
<brousch> Hm. My kid's bus is 20 minutes late, and they are the 3rd stop on the route.
<rick_h_> good thing the bus went into a ditch before he got on it
<brousch> I don't doubt it. It was a skating rink around the school
<jjesse> beautiful sunrise this morning
<cmaloney> Yeah, at least there's sunlight out.
<Havenstance> <Willow> Last update: 09:54 (GMT-5) Jan 08, Cadillac / Wexford County (KCAD) reports: Temp: 6.8Â°F Dewpoint: 1.4Â°F Humidity: 78% Wind: 6 knots at 250Â° (WSW) Conditions: Light  Snow (-SN)
<Havenstance> i'll take 7 degrees :) heatwave
<cmaloney> Temperature: 10.9 F (-11.7 C)
<cmaloney> (at KDET)
<cmaloney> I'll take it as well. :)
<greg-g> reminds me of the beginning of Grumpy Old Men when the radio is playing "Tropical Heat Wave" after the weather report of something really cold :)
<greg-g> uggggh: http://current.workingdirectory.net/posts/2014/new-gpg-key/
<greg-g> backup your keys, mmmkay?
<rick_h_> go NAS go
<rick_h_> greg-g: yea, guess I still have rose colored glasses for Ubuntu community due to the folks I have around me
<rick_h_> I don't go down into the nether regions
<cmaloney> If you look for pain you'll find it in any community.
<greg-g> no comment
<greg-g> nix that
<greg-g> it wasn't about the "going down to bad parts" it was the "the leadership really fucking annoys me" part
<rick_h_> my point still stands, I've got a good cicle/clicke so have no issue with others disagreeing
<greg-g> yeah, agree, why I stay in here :)
<cmaloney> Exactly
<greg-g> just, mark makes anti-community decisions :/
<cmaloney> greg-g: I don't think it's a conscious thing
<greg-g> cmaloney: all the worse, given he's been given a clue-by-4 about 10 different times from people like Mako :/
<cmaloney> Yeah, I know.
<greg-g> when someone either can't or refuses to learn, I stop interacting with them
<cmaloney> And there does tend to be a certain arrogance but I don't attribute it to malice, more of a "this is what I think is right"
<greg-g> that's just how I roll
<cmaloney> yeah, no worries there.
 * greg-g likes you all though ;)
<cmaloney> I think that's part of the intertia of the comunity
<cmaloney> We're still friends here.
<brousch> You're my favorite freetards
<_stink_> group hug for warmth
<brousch> _stink_: Can you at least change your nick before suggesting that?
<greg-g> rick_h_: gah, I have to say my goal is to "lose X pounds per week" when registering there :/
<greg-g> I don't have such a goal, I just want to feel better
 * greg-g still registers
<greg-g> oh, now it's complaining that I don't have a goal weight and wont' let me continue
<greg-g> and why does it need my zip?
 * greg-g grumbles
<rick_h_> greg-g: yea, it's not perfect and such. I meant "I've only used this and it did the job but meh"
<cmaloney> http://unleashmofi.com/
<greg-g> :)
<cmaloney> greg-g: Evernote. ;)
<greg-g> rick_h_: just complaining, not at you :)
<cmaloney> Seriously though, just use a text file
<greg-g> cmaloney: yeah, but I want graphs/reporting!
<greg-g> quantified self!
<rick_h_> greg-g: yea, I hate giving half hearted reco's
<rick_h_> greg-g: but hate when you don't hear anyone back
<greg-g> yeah, that too :)
<greg-g> I could just use org-mode
<greg-g> but, that requires emacs
<cmaloney> greg-g: I think I have the solution for you.
<cmaloney> http://www.pinterest.com/artsyfartsy/feed-my-pie-hole/
<cmaloney> Just take pictures of your food like everyone else.
<cmaloney> and post them on pinterest so we can all call you a food snob.
<greg-g> heh
<greg-g> ah, sweet, you can edit it pretty well: http://imgur.com/mP2AgwC
<greg-g> cmaloney: my lunch photos were for you
<cmaloney> See, now you can crowdsource your meal.
<cmaloney> WINNING
<greg-g> it is the best effing bacon
<jrwren> java devs make the worst linux admins :p
<brousch> beanshell FTW!
<cmaloney> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product-reviews/B00B84ZZAC
<gamerchick02> i was able to move my car! small victories
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-01-09
<greg-g> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agafia_Lykova
<greg-g> from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lykov_family
<greg-g> " The scientists reported that Lykova spoke a language âdistorted by a lifetime of isolationâ that sounded akin to a âslow, blurred cooing.â[3] This unusual speech led to the misconception that Lykova possessed little intelligence. Later, after observing her skill in hunting, cooking, sewing, reading and construction, this original misconception was revised.[3]"
<greg-g> ie: she's more hardcore than anyone you've met.
<cmaloney> damn
<greg-g> from today's cabinporn
<greg-g> http://www.vice.com/far-out/agafias-taiga-life-full-length
<rick_h_> gamerchick02: congrats!
<gamerchick02> thank you rick_h_
<gamerchick02> i'm so glad i could move my car. :)
<rick_h_> yea, erica used hers for the first time today with a new battery
<gamerchick02> yay!
<gamerchick02> she didn't start?
<rick_h_> she was glad to to get going again
<rick_h_> nope, it went dead yesterday
<gamerchick02> i'm lucky that mine started up. i started it on Monday and Tuesday even though i didn't go anywhere
<rick_h_> so I've been driving her around
<gamerchick02> UGH
<gamerchick02> i'm sorry.
<rick_h_> all good, it was almost 5yrs old
<gamerchick02> hah time for a new one
<gamerchick02> :)
<rick_h_> so she was due, and like I told her, I can feel all manly changing a battery outside in -30 wind chill
<rick_h_> next time I do something wrong I've got a brownie point to pull out
<cmaloney> rick_h_: I take it you're not at CHC tonight?
<rick_h_> cmaloney: no, wife had to go check on a patient and I got child duty :(
<cmaloney> Ah
<rick_h_> she's still there waiting on a test result
<cmaloney> No worries.
<cmaloney> lmorchard23 is here
<rick_h_> send my apologies please
<cmaloney> as is a new face for CHC
<cmaloney> says he met you in Clarkston's Caribou
<rick_h_> hah, I should get called away more often
<gamerchick02> ooooh, i forgot about CHC. i was on the phone with my mom and i'm already in PJs. oops
<gamerchick02> :-P
<rick_h_> heh, well sorry I missed a good CHC it sounds like
<rick_h_> husband of a doctor...
<cmaloney> Yeah, duty calls
<rick_h_> after doing more driveway duty today though I'm beat anyway
<gamerchick02> i like you guys. i gotta get my butt to more actual IRL activities. the Penguicon thing didn't work out last year because of a baby shower i promised i'd attend the same weekend. :(
<rick_h_> the plows came by which means there was 500lbs of frozen crud at the end to clear
<gamerchick02> ugh my mom and brother dealt with that too
<rick_h_> on the one hand it's nice the plows come by a couple days later, but man that frozen end of the drive stuff is heavy and a pita
<gamerchick02> i know :(
<cmaloney> rick_h_: Yeah, when I came home from the MUG board meeting I got the car stuck in the driveway.
<gamerchick02> ugh, not cool!
<gamerchick02> k, switching to the mac so i can watch Nature and have a cup of tea i think! see everyone in a bit.
<waf> rick_h_: i think you would enjoy https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ShEez0JkOFw
<waf> it was given at a clojure conference, it's not really related to clojure
<waf> the guy talks about his outlook on woodworking, and how it relates to his outlook on software and automation
<jcastro> rick_h_, https://github.com/itchyny/calendar.vim
<jcastro> THANK ME LATER
<cmaloney> jcastro: Dude, that's AWESOME!
<rick_h_> waf: he's got a nice looking workbench
<cmaloney> Had a great CHC last night
<cmaloney> mostly because I finally put to bed one of the projects that was hanging over my head.
<cmaloney> When I moved the episodes of OMC from Linode over to archive.org, I didn't add the rewrite rules for the old files
<cmaloney> so I got a bunch of 404s in my logs from bots and other assorted things pinging those files
<cmaloney> Up until last night I've been doing a few batches by hand and frankly it was onerous enough that I kept putting it off
<cmaloney> Asked if Les and Rick (new Rick) knew of a tool to do this automatically.
<cmaloney> Which I knew they probably didn't but it expressed what I really wanted which was "I don't want to do this by hand".
<cmaloney> (anymore)
<cmaloney> So I got the idea to scrape my site for links using urllib2 and BeautifulSoup4
<cmaloney> and since I knew the pattern (uploads/yyyy/dd) I could then do a scrape of omc.com/yyyy/dd and then munge that into a redirect
<cmaloney> by the end of CHC I finished something that had been hanging over my head for about a year or so
<cmaloney> All because I asked the question that expressed what I really wanted.
<cmaloney> I think there's a profound blog post in there somewhere.
<brousch> Well done
<brousch> So rick_h_ has been replaced by New Rick?
<cmaloney> rick_h_ shall now be referred to as Rick Classic.
<rick_h_> lol
<cmaloney> https://plus.google.com/u/0/+CraigMaloney/posts/4ZfA1jMQwWf
<cmaloney> ttp://decafbad.net/2014/01/09/learning-geospatial-analysis-with-python/
<cmaloney> http://decafbad.net/2014/01/09/learning-geospatial-analysis-with-python/
<brousch> Enough geospam!
<cmaloney> brousch: I GOTTA LET YOU KNOW
<cmaloney> It's a fucking imperative
<cmaloney> I guess telling them "I'm not interested" isn't enough
<brousch> And control your animal. You are the pack leader. Make sure your pet knows it
<cmaloney> brousch: I am the pack leader, but her claws are the enforcer. ;)
<brousch> If she uses them on you, you are not the master
<cmaloney> No, but I'm smart. :)
<rick_h_> waf: good talk, <3
<rick_h_> got me all "I really should look at clojure" and then he talked about maven and classpaths and I ran away
<cmaloney> hah
<cmaloney> Clojure is all sexy-like until you realize there's the hairy underbelly of Java lurking beneath.
<brousch> The solid history and performance, you mean
<cmaloney> The moustache really doesn't help the illusion.
<cmaloney> Nor does the foot-long ZZ-top beard.
<rick_h_> more the "wtf is it doing? Why is this traceback 1000 lines long? What tool am I supposed to install now to make me not slit my throat"
<brousch> Eclipse!
<rick_h_> never
<rick_h_> ever
<rick_h_> again
<cmaloney> There's only two ways I'll ever touch Eclipse ever again
<cmaloney> http://eclipsephase.com and http://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/72125/eclipse
<cmaloney> ;)
<brousch> What if someone added an extra 0 to your paycheck to use Eclipse?
<rick_h_> never
<rick_h_> ever
<rick_h_> again
<cmaloney> They'd probably add a leading zero if they were using Eclipse
<cmaloney> and then I'd be paid in octal
<cmaloney> and that would make me sad
<cmaloney> Actually, I think I might make more if I were paid in octal
<cmaloney> Nope. It'd be a paycut
<cmaloney> so that's a sad
<cmaloney> Now if I were paid in hexadecimal that would be awesome
<cmaloney> I'd hire someone to do my taxes to make that work.
<waf> honestly, i never have to touch maven and classpath ugliness, they're hidden away, just like most python devs never really need to write custom setup.py files.
<waf> although that's exactly the sort of ignorance he's railing against :)
 * rick_h_ looks at his hand written setup.py files and cringes
<rick_h_> waf but good call, <3 the talk
<brousch> waf: Anyone releasing a module does setup.py. Maybe it is more analogous to people not having to mess with PYTHONPATH
<waf> i think it's probably analagous. i've never released a python module, though.
<waf> but you basically copy some boilerplate, fill in your custom package values, and specify dependencies, right?
<rick_h_> waf: ?!
<waf> no?
<rick_h_> waf: right, defined your new bin/xxxx you provide, versioning info, pypi search/classifier info
<rick_h_> waf: more that you've never uploaded something to pypi
<rick_h_> was the ?!
<waf> ah, ok. most of my python is little server scripts / automation, or maybe small little web apps
<waf> here's the equivalent of a setup.py in clojure: https://github.com/weavejester/compojure/blob/master/project.clj
<waf> the closest you get to maven is requiring those dependencies, which hits maven servers to download
<cmaloney> rick_h_: I've never released anything to PyPi either
<cmaloney> Nothing is in a releasable state.
<rick_h_> release early/often
<brousch> cmaloney: I'm disappointed
<cmaloney> I do... to github. ;)
<brousch> release something!
<cmaloney> 3...2...1...
<brousch> greg-g: http://www.dvice.com/2014-1-8/bluetooth-cassette-jacks-your-car-radio-21st-century
<brousch> Disappointing that is uses a battery instead of generating power by spinning the gears
<cmaloney> brousch: On some decks it might cause enough resistance for it to try to flip the tape.
<brousch> heh
<greg-g> rick_h_: was there an article about how LP does schema change?
<greg-g> +s
<rick_h_> greg-g: hmm, you don't want to know
<rick_h_> greg-g: it's crazy
<rick_h_> greg-g: https://dev.launchpad.net/PolicyAndProcess/DatabaseSchemaChangesProcess has some of it
<rick_h_> greg-g: http://rbtcollins.wordpress.com/2012/08/13/minimising-downtime-for-schema-changes-with-postgresql/ seems to have some info as well
<rick_h_> greg-g: it's complicated enough that if you want happy to setup a call to walk through it, but basically db related changes happen in their own tree, must be safe, get their own reviews, and had things that kept db changes were required to take < 4s or something
<greg-g> hah, k, on call, but thanks :)
<cmaloney> Yesh
<greg-g> what's the point of a twitter account retweeting the same story but reported by different people over an over again?
<greg-g> see: @internetarchive
<brousch> greg-g: Did you see my link earlier?
 * greg-g looks
<brousch> 11:25EST
<greg-g> why not just use the 3.5mm jack versions?
<greg-g> but I agree, should be self-powered
<brousch> wires are so 1990s
<greg-g> people and their hate of wires, never understood :)
<greg-g> you can take my ethernet cable from my cold dead hands
<brousch> Actually I plug into my stereo with a wire
<brousch> But it gets tangled up in the car. Wireless might be nice
<greg-g> I do need a new casette adapter though, mine is making noises
<cmaloney> greg-g: My favorite are the RTs I get for posting an episode on Metal Injection for OMC.
<cmaloney> I swear there's 6 or so accounts that do nothing but tweet RSS feeds
<greg-g> yeah :/
<cmaloney> OK this is the difference between O'Reilly and other publishers.
<cmaloney> Had a problem with the Nook downloading a book. They made me call so I could get a refund because their file was screwed up.
<cmaloney> Had to wait 30 minutes to sort it out.
<cmaloney> I had a problem with a coupon code for 50% off of an O'Reilly book
<cmaloney> Sent them an email. They reproduced the problem and gave me the book for my trouble.
<cmaloney> Guess which one will be getting more of my money.
<cmaloney> I've got some customer service venting and praising that I need to do
<brousch> nook will get more of your money because now you get everything free from o'reilly?
<rick_h_> I can almost see!
<rick_h_> yay
<rick_h_> _stink_: ping
<brousch> You learn to see and the first thing you do is look at stink?
<rick_h_> :)
<rick_h_> I look at recent bookie bookmarks and want to warn/save a friend
<brousch> Big Brother!
<rick_h_> pretty much, all that data to go through
<_stink_> rick_h_: pong
<_stink_> i bet this is about migrations
<_stink_> let's see if i win the prize
<rick_h_> _stink_: yea, you know to never ever use models in your migrations right?
<rick_h_> just sql expression language
<_stink_> i have never done so
<rick_h_> never ever ever pull/use a model to change data/etc
<_stink_> then i aw that link and wanted to think about it
<_stink_> right, i see thepoint is that your models will change
<rick_h_> right, and when you git clone $recent release
<_stink_> and your migrations will break
<rick_h_> and run migrations, they won't work
<_stink_> ok cool
<rick_h_> but if you stick with SqlE, you'll be ok
<rick_h_> or raw sql statements
<rick_h_> since they're running against the table structure at the time of the migration
<_stink_> i did see the one about writing existing model state in as sqlalchemy models right inside the migration script
<rick_h_> which is still at an old state
<_stink_> instaed of importing from project.models
<_stink_> which i think makes sense
<_stink_> but is overkill
<rick_h_> use autoload and a table and you're peachy
<rick_h_> it'll always work and you'll be safe
<_stink_> ok cool
<_stink_> thanks for the heads up
<_stink_> at least i can save the time thinking about it now, heh
<rick_h_> not to get nosy based on your bookmarks, but learn from other's bone-headed mistakes
<rick_h_> :)
<_stink_> oh yeah
<_stink_> this migration is at an early stage in development, but i told myself to just do it the right way
<_stink_> so when i have to do it for real i will at least know hojw.
<rick_h_> right, some things are big no-nos that will bite you one day in a production deploy on a friday...and this is one of them
<rick_h_> and it's such an easy trap to fall into that works at first and you don't see the cliff coming up
<rick_h_> heh, well this one is new. Linked in recruiter email...from linked in
<rick_h_> linkedin I guess
<brousch> isn't there a linkedin scam going on right now?
<rick_h_> they knew I was currently at canonical
 * rick_h_ goes to look around
<brousch> I am thinking of http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2014-01-08/linkedin-sues-unknown-hackers-in-an-attempt-to-find-out-who-they-are
<greg-g> gnome-do seems slower recently, for whatever reason
<greg-g> I'm routinely only getting the second character recognized by it
<greg-g> ie: ctrl+space "lo" enter brings up "open files" because the l isn't registered
<rick_h_> greg-g: do you use it for anything other than launch apps?
<greg-g> not really
 * greg-g just disabled a bunch of plugins
<cmaloney> rick_h_: so what about alembic's magic model matching code? :)
<rick_h_> cmaloney: that's fine for generating the add/remove of columns
<rick_h_> but even then, it's just creating ops against the tables to alter them aside from the model itself
<cmaloney> ok. I just didn't want to get the "ire of rick_h_" award
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-01-10
<rick_h_> greg-g: wood pron https://plus.google.com/116120911388966791792/posts/Xx1Ff59sz13
<jjesse> nice job
<rick_h_> thanks, we'll see how it goes. getting closer and closer
<cmaloney> Evening
<cmaloney> Good morning
<rick_h_> morning and such
<rick_h_> 27 on the old temp gauge...I might have to go get shorts
<cmaloney> Yeah, it's like a heat-wave.
<cmaloney> gotta love Microsoft
<cmaloney> Windows Xp comes off support in April and Windows 7 is pretty much impossible to purchase.
<cmaloney> unless you want to play OEM roulette or spend +$300
<brousch> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832116992
<cmaloney> I don't want an OEM version
<cmaloney> That's the System Builder version right?
<brousch> Works for me
<brousch> I have a VM running it
<cmaloney> Is there anything special to purchasing the OEM version and activating it?
<brousch> No
<rick_h_> grrr, this target thing is starting to make me angry http://r.bmark.us/u/8844ed92d1cd6e
<rick_h_> of course my wife did a bunch of shopping there this holiday season
<brousch> scr00d
<rick_h_> yea, pretty much
<cmaloney> rick_h_: should have gone to Meijer instead. ;)
<rick_h_> she hates that place :P
<cmaloney> Nobody piches your data tighter than Meijer
<rick_h_> well they don't ask for it :)
<rick_h_> but yea, this reaction to this crap has been horrible
<cmaloney> Yeah they do. It's called MPerks.
<rick_h_> at first I didn't care
 * rick_h_ has never seen it
<cmaloney> MPerks is awesome
<cmaloney> It's digital coupons
<cmaloney> and cash-back
<cmaloney> If you power-shop for your groceries at Meijer it makes some damn good sense.
<cmaloney> https://mperks.meijer.com/mperks
<cmaloney> Honestly I wish more places would do this
<cmaloney> I get a little cranky having to print and clip a coupon
<cmaloney> esp. Staples since I already am using my rewards card.
<cmaloney> and biggby too
<brousch> This looks like fun http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/393053146/powerup-30-smartphone-controlled-paper-airplane
<rick_h_> jcastro: ping
<greg-g> que es "power-shop"?
<jjesse__> Meijer makes me angry
<jjesse> i think its the lights they use, seems harsh and makes me feel angry when i walk in
<brousch> I love meijer
<brousch> I go at 7:30AM each week on Saturday or Sunday.
<greg-g> and he's angry for the rest of the day
<brousch> At 9:30AM I hate meijer because it is full of asshats
<cmaloney> I <3 Meijer as well
<cmaloney> though Target has an atmosphere that makes me want to buy things there
<cmaloney> like throw-pillows and matching lamps
<cmaloney> I have no idea why that is
<greg-g> psychology, they know
<cmaloney> greg-g: power-shop = go there for just about everything that we need grocery and otherwise.
<greg-g> ah, one-stop shopping
<cmaloney> greg-g: yeah, I'm a big fan of Meijer
<greg-g> I thought power-shopping was more akin to "buy in bulk when the deal is right" aka "super coupon clipping nerds"
<cmaloney> That too
<cmaloney> but we're not nearly as bad as some folks I know like my parents
<greg-g> :)
<cmaloney> they're the ones picking up 8 salsas because they're 2/4
<greg-g> if you have the pantry space...
<cmaloney> they do, and they use it
<cmaloney> it's almost like a bunker though
<cmaloney> we're not so lucky in the cupboard space.
<greg-g> us neither
<cmaloney> greg-g: Shit, if you had a pantry that could be sublet for a family of four in CA.
<cmaloney> $800 a month. ;)
<greg-g> done with roommates
<cmaloney> greg-g: yeah, I don't understand how folks do it
<cmaloney> it's easier with someone you want to be with, but people you kinda-sorta-like-but-not-really would be a pain in the ass.
<greg-g> in certain points in your life and in certain special situations, otherwise, ughhhhh
<cmaloney> yeah.
<brousch> Seeing these new Android desktop all-in-ones makes me want to take Android dev more seriously
<rick_h_> the web runs on everything :P
<brousch> But it doesn't do some things well
<brousch> I have 2 family emember who like their chromebooks
<rick_h_> like?
<brousch> Yes, have switched to chromebook and are happy
<rick_h_> I meant what things do you want to do that the web doesn't do?
<mathomastech> What is the CSS convention in distinguising 3 class names that are identical. My example is this. I have a class called left and can pertain to the header, body, and footer of an object. But each has unique code. Right now I am using left for body, hLeft for header, and fLeft for footer. Is there a CSS convention I should be following or is it a matter of personal taste?
<rick_h_> yea, don't do that :)
<rick_h_> use left, and it does the common thing
<rick_h_> and if they need tweaking setup .left .header {changes}
<rick_h_> errr, .left.header {}
<rick_h_> using something like sass makes this really nice because the nested structure is obvious and readable
<mathomastech> Yea, I read using Less or sass allows me to use variables, which would completely solve the problem. Right now I am just using raw css.
<rick_h_> pastebin something specific and can be more specific
<mathomastech> can I send you github link?
<rick_h_> sure
<mathomastech> https://github.com/mathomastech/cardLayout/blob/master/cardLayout.css
<mathomastech> btw, I totally borrowed the design idea from the CHC website.
<rick_h_> so .hLeft should be .header.left {}
<rick_h_> you want .left to mean something, .header to mean something, and the two together to add some extra bits
<mathomastech> So then do I need just a single .left with 3 sub classes in it (header, footer, body)
<mathomastech> ?
<rick_h_> well things should nest and cascade
<rick_h_> it's generally bad form to try to do things too custom, but you need what you need
<mathomastech> Ahh, I  think I got it figured out. Neat, so when you call a class from html, in this case <p class = "header left"> it only pays attention to the .header.left in CSS.
<rick_h_> mathomastech: no, it does threee
<rick_h_> .header
<rick_h_> .left
<rick_h_> and .header.left
<brousch> rick_h_: I'm having a hard time coming up with something that can be done on Android that can't on Chromebook. Only storing files, photo, and video editing come to mind. Those can be done on web, but are clumsier
<rick_h_> brousch: yea, why i like web dev
<rick_h_> unless you need something specific, works on iphone, android, osx, etc
<brousch> Doing anything offline
<rick_h_> even offline works for some things
<brousch> It is ugly
<brousch> I'll have to think about this more though
<brousch> It may be that I just like the user experience of Android better than a web browser OS so it's tainting my thoughts
<mathomastech> rick_h_  Thanks. So I removed the plain .left, and have 3 different className.left classes instead. It's much less ugly now.
<rick_h_> mathomastech: coolio
<rick_h_> brousch: there are advantages
<rick_h_> brousch: the use of intents
<rick_h_> derekv has some nice stuff in the bookie android app that we don't/can't have in the web app
<cmaloney> http://www.rushbackstage.com/rushbackstage/accessories-etc/index.html
<brousch> But it's interaction with the native OS. If the native OS is chromeos, then that goes away
<cmaloney> And people say I'm hard to shop for.
<rick_h_> brousch: true
<rick_h_> cmaloney: heh
<cmaloney> Though I'd be hard-pressed to even hit one of those drum heads.
<brousch> rick_h_: Although having apps interact with each other is a lot harder in web
<brousch> If all your files are stored on Google/Dropbox, you need a service that can interact with those to use your files
<rick_h_> brousch: right
<rick_h_> have to build in apis
<brousch> cmaloney: Rush2012 pendant necklace is heading your way now!
<brousch> You're gonna look so gangsta!
<cmaloney> brousch: tx. :)
<cmaloney> Because pimpin' ain't easy.
<brousch> Even better http://www.rushbackstage.com/rushbackstage/accessories-etc/rush-belt-buckle.html
<cmaloney> I'd totally wear that. :)
<mathomastech> Updated with more prettyness. https://github.com/mathomastech/cardLayout/blob/master/cardLayout.css
<mathomastech> Or rather, with less uglyness.
<brousch> rick_h_ does it and suddenly everyone else is on board http://hardware.slashdot.org/story/14/01/10/1441210/4k-is-for-programmers
<rick_h_> brousch: you should know by know I control all :)
<rick_h_> konw by now bah
<cmaloney> brousch: rick_h_ isn't a trend setter; he is the trend.
<rick_h_> this one was quick though. Usually it takes a few years of calling me names :)
<cmaloney> rick_h_: We're moving in internet time. :)
<cmaloney> That and I think folks are getting a little tired of two monitors
<cmaloney> just for the real-estate
<brousch> I would prefer 1 ginormous monitor
<rick_h_> I'd like to have this 24 as a 27, but bigger than that and it's too much space to eat up
<rick_h_> in the end, you dont' want 10 different apps running giving you feedback at once
<rick_h_> you can't concentrate on things
<cmaloney> That's the real problem.
<cmaloney> I wish workspaces were something I used more.
<brousch> Our draftsmen have 27"ers. I find them overwhelming
<brousch> But then I found our 24"ers overwhelming for a week
<rick_h_> yea, I'm coming from 21's so the 24 is nice since I went from 3 to 1
<cmaloney> also wish the issue of NVidia displaying white windows when I switch workspaces would also be fixed.
 * rick_h_ stops reading comments on that /. link before he loses the day and get banned
<rick_h_> waf can verify, tiling window managers ftw on these high res displays
<cmaloney> Yeah, i've started using the windowing under tmux for my ssh sessions
<cmaloney> I figure I'll hit lim(rick_h_) within a few years.
<cmaloney> but by then the bar will have moved. ;)
<brousch> 8k
<rick_h_> heh
<rick_h_> I'm just glad not every damn monitor/display is stuck at 1920x1024 any more
<rick_h_> those were an annoying few years
<cmaloney> I just await the point where rick_h_'s monacle becomes sentient.
<trevlar> mathomastech: just a thought.. you could rename your master branch to gh-pages so github will automatically serve it.. would be easier to demo
<cmaloney> We'll all benefit then. ;)
<mathomastech> trevlar: I am using that repository just to host the library. I actually have a live demo copy on my actual website.
<mathomastech> http://mathomaste.ch/Projects/cardLayout/index.html
<mathomastech> But that actually might be more convenient, to have Github automatically update the demo, rather than me copying over the latest files.
<cmaloney> Woo!!! A super-secret package that I hope JoDee hasn't tried to order is winging its way to us
<cmaloney> Looks like her birthday is coming earlier than I expected.
<rick_h_> lol
<brousch> Why I love Django https://devcharm.com/pages/79-must-have-django-packages
<rick_h_> because it's python? :P
<cmaloney> rick_h_: http://magnatune.com/artists/superdirt2
<cmaloney> Not sure if this might be up your alley but I'm liking it
<cmaloney> It's like classical electronic music.
<cmaloney> rick_h_: Also http://magnatune.com/artists/jag
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-01-11
<cmaloney> Good morning
<jrwren_> good morning
<cmaloney> Well I learned something this morning
<cmaloney> USB is utterly shit for long distances.
<cmaloney> USB -> Serial -> X10 interface
<cmaloney> Even with an unpowered hub it seemed to crap out
<rick_h_> yes, usb over 10' or so sucks I think
<cmaloney> Actually have a Raspberry Pi handling my X10 stuff
<jrwren_> greg-g: i got home from codemash and started reading Debt again. read chapter 3, this book is great. Ty AGAIN
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-01-12
<cmaloney> rick_h_: Glad you seem to be liking Codex Alera. That's on my to-read list
<jsivak> is beautfiulsoup4 missing from PyPI for anyone else? (it is for me)
<jrwren_> try missingfrompypiorjustme.com :)  i've no idea
<jsivak> I filed a bug on the pypi tracker
<jsivak> does is show for you? (if you search for it form pypi's main page)
<jrwren_> There were no matches.
<jsivak> did you get "Not Found ()"?
<jrwren_> did you really search for beatfiul soup instead of beautiful soup?
<jrwren_> i get this https://pypi.python.org/pypi/BeautifulSoup/3.2.1
<jrwren_> yar https://pypi.python.org/pypi/beautifulsoup4
<jrwren_> not found
<jsivak> that the version 3 package.. 4 is supposed to be out there as well.
<jsivak> pip-tools is missing too
<jsivak> but, now that I use Chrome, I don't get the "Not Found ()" error, so one issue may be my plethora of Firefox plugins getting in the way. (cmaloney, be quiet).
<jsivak> actually the main thing I was surprised to see was that beautifulsoup4 and pip-tools have "dissappeard" from pypi with seemingly no explanation.
<jrwren_> you can get it from here: http://www.crummy.com/software/BeautifulSoup/
<jrwren_> i've no idea why it is gone from pypi
<jsivak> I use urlwatch to monitor packages for updates and was surpised to see some packages go "missing"..
<jrwren_> bummer
<jsivak> the packages are still present at http://pypi.python.org/simple.. so I'm guessing that "pip installs" will still work.
<jsivak> I'm not in a bind, just found it very odd.
<rick_h_> jsivak: using pip 1.5?
<rick_h_> there were some big changes in that changelog that aren't backward compat that might cause isuses
<rick_h_> jsivak: make sure to check out the stuff about external urls (which BS4 seems to be an externally hosted package) http://www.pip-installer.org/en/latest/news.html
<rick_h_> I think if they want to host them externally they've got to check extra bits in pypi to get shown and such
<rick_h_> but I upload all mine so not sure on the process off the top of my head
<jsivak> the mirroring support was/is dropped in pip 1.5 due to PYPI moving to the CDN network and the old mirror's being decommissioned in 2014.02.
<rick_h_> jsivak: right, but the uploads vs links stuff has been going on with the CDN for a while
<jsivak> Yeah, but the BeautifulSoup4 PYPI page should "still be displaying" in pypi.. same goes for pip-tools. Unless those authors removed the projects, which I can't find any confirmation of.
<rick_h_> or pypi removed them since they're just external links
<jsivak> it just wierd.. its not causing me any strife now, I'm just curious how many other packages are "disappearing" from pypi.
<rick_h_> https://bugs.launchpad.net/inotifyx/+bug/1265995
<rick_h_> more than a few it seems
<rick_h_> that's from last week
<jsivak> I haven't test this yet, but BS4 and pip-tools are still listed in pypi.python.org/simple.. so I'd guess  that 'pip install' will still isntall them.
<rick_h_> well, try the -- flags in the release if you are on pip 1.5
<rick_h_> or downgrading to an older pip and seeing maybe?
<rick_h_> I don't have them in my pypi mirror, but again, they're linked outside
<rick_h_> so that's strange, since it's got a mirror'ed 'simple'
<jsivak> I have copies local (on our sd2 system).. so the only reason I noticed them "go missing" was due to my scheduled url checks via urlwathc.
<jsivak> (er, urlwatch)
<jsivak> tx for checking; I'll have to see if my bug report gets any responses.
<rick_h_> go to pycon and ask the people working on pypi :)
<rick_h_> I've pinged alex garynor on twitter. I seem to recall him ping'ing some package authors about updating some stuff
<rick_h_> it make pip faster if your packages were hosted and a checkbox was set or something
<rick_h_> useful for CI runs and such
<rick_h_> though download-cache ftw and such
<rick_h_> jsivak: you see https://twitter.com/zzzeek/status/422165053899800576 ?
<jsivak> rick_h_: regarding the pypy speeds?
<rick_h_> jsivak: yea, 2x sqlalchemy benchmarks in a nightly release
<rick_h_> so next pypy release might be interesting to try and see how much will/won't run
<jsivak> I'll have to put pypy on the radar then.. :)
<jsivak> still surpised the pypy can get those kinds of speed improvements.
<jrwren_> anyone ever use treesheets? http://strlen.com/treesheets/
<rick_h_> never heard of it jrwren_
<rick_h_> cmaloney: something to get you interested in woodworking http://www.hauspanther.com/2014/01/09/amazing-german-designed-cat-climbing-furniture/?utm_content=buffer839c6&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer
<cmaloney> afternoon
<cmaloney> rick_h_: hah
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-01-05
<brousch__> Planet killer!
<rick_h_> brousch__: :P better than the SRT charger I saw while there. Costs about the same as well
<cmaloney> We'll be starting in about 5 minutes
<gamerchick02> woot!
<cmaloney> OK, Downton Abbey is on
<cmaloney> but we have our meeting at the moment
<cmaloney> so please split your attentions and we'll make this brief
<cmaloney> Since the first few moments are just underwriting and recap
<cmaloney> First up: Penguicon approacheth
<cmaloney> Thinking we'll have our release party there
<brousch__> I'm here!
<gamerchick02> that works
<cmaloney> I'll see if I can coordinate particulars and what-not
<gamerchick02> i'm here too but Downton is starting. you know what's important!!
<cmaloney> Heh
<cmaloney> Figured I'd get that bit out of the way
<cmaloney> JoDee's in the other room watching
<gamerchick02> :-P
<brousch__> unrecorded tv? Barbaric
<gamerchick02> JoDee is an awesome lady
<cmaloney> She is. :)
<cmaloney> Anywho, I think that's all we have coming up
<gamerchick02> brousch__ i watch it on broadcast!
<cmaloney> Save for global jams and what-not
<brousch__> Ew
<cmaloney> Which is Feb 6-8th
<gamerchick02> global jam is February?
<cmaloney> If anyone would like to coordinate an in-person meeting that would be awesome
<cmaloney> Yep
<gamerchick02> Penguicon is April, right?
<cmaloney> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuGlobalJam
<cmaloney> Yep
<gamerchick02> let's see where i'm gonna be during both of those.
<cmaloney> kk
<cmaloney> Regardless I think it might be cool to meet up in person
<gamerchick02> it would be!
<cmaloney> Since the IRC global jams have been less than attended. :)
<cmaloney> Anywho, those are the items that I had to cover.
<cmaloney> Anyone have anything they'd like to cover?
<cmaloney> (More info on the above events on the mailing list)
<gamerchick02> yay mailing list
<gamerchick02> i should probably get a computer up and running with ubuntu then... ?  :-P
<cmaloney> That might help. ;)
<gamerchick02> will that super cheap HP Stream run it do you think?
<cmaloney> nogt familar with it
<gamerchick02> http://www.bestbuy.com/site/hp-stream-11-6-laptop-intel-celeron-2gb-memory-32gb-emmc-solid-state-drive-horizon-blue/9195102.p?id=1219398344673&skuId=9195102
<gamerchick02> le cheap
<cmaloney> Anywho, food for thought. :)
<cmaloney> Anything else?
<gamerchick02> i think i'm good
<cmaloney> OK, I think that's it then
<cmaloney> Thank you everyone!
<gamerchick02> you're welcome.
<gamerchick02> i wonder if someone's tried that HP Stream and tried to put ubuntu on it?
<gamerchick02> anyone
<gamerchick02> ?
 * gamerchick02 pokes channel
<cmaloney> First I've hard of them so no idea.
<gamerchick02> there's a note on the ubuntu forums. looks like wifi is a pain to get started and the trackpad doesn't work right
<cmaloney> Ugh
<gamerchick02> i know. i saw that and said the same thing
<gamerchick02> ok Downton. see everyone tomorrow or something!
<cmaloney> Have fun
<cmaloney> Apparently it's a 2 hour episode
<cmaloney> Good morning
<_stink_> yo
<brousch__> werdup
<_stink_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZjAantupsA
<rick_h_> morning
<rick_h_> back to the grind
<brousch__> Do you also roast it yourself?
<cmaloney> Heh
<rick_h_> no, I buy pre-roasted shipped every 2weeks :)
<jrwren> from where?
<cmaloney> Dunkin Drone-uts
<rick_h_> jrwren: petes
<rick_h_> peets
<rick_h_> a bag lasts just about 2wk so get a new bag every 2. Almost to the day so it's usually 1wk old or less when I get it
<brousch__> Hm, they have decaf and half-caf
<brousch__> oooh, decaf sumatra
<jrwren> mmm... decaf, so that I can drink it all day long.
<brousch__> And not get Angina!
<rick_h_> I like the CAFE DOMINGO and get that
<brousch__> I'll give this a try. I'm getting tired of Biggby French Roast decaf
<rick_h_> I <3 it
<rick_h_> the only issue is when I go to sprints for a week I don't use my bad and I end up with extra I try to pawn off on cmaloney and others
<cmaloney> heh
<rick_h_> man, wtf I need to get more bookie time
<rick_h_> people offering to i18n it, patch this, do that
<rick_h_> soon I'll have to figure out how to be a 'community manager' :P
<cmaloney> Yeah, it's crazy
<cmaloney> I think they're looking for GSoC 2015. ;)
<rick_h_> yea, and we thought they were early last year
<rick_h_> ugh
<cmaloney> We didn't exist last year. ;)
<rick_h_> we'll have to recruit brousch__ this year
<rick_h_> get him off that django kivy stuff into a real community project :P
<cmaloney> as far as they're concerned.
<cmaloney> Now we have a track record. ;)
<cmaloney> (last year around January)
<cmaloney> Yeah, drag him off of kivy
<cmaloney> they're going nowhere anyway.
<cmaloney> Android is a fad
<cmaloney> ;)
<brousch__> I actually don't do much web stuff any more
<rick_h_> we can fix that
<cmaloney> heh
<rick_h_> and besides, bookie isn't all web
<rick_h_> someone wants to do a desktop client now
<rick_h_> and then there's the android app
<rick_h_> the back end, the front end, the side end, the no end
<cmaloney> Can we have the website op up with a nag for downloading the app
 * cmaloney makes a feature request
<jrwren> bookie safari sync would be sweet.
<jrwren> I should do that :p
<cmaloney> It won't be complete until it reads newsgroups
<brousch__> I've considered a bookie app in kivy. The stickiest part is kivy's lack of a web view
<cmaloney> Doesn't need a web view
<brousch__> Sending out to the external browser for stuff is lame
<brousch__> I use a reddit app with a webview. It's really nice
<cmaloney> That's kind of the point of Bookie though
<cmaloney> You use it as a gateway to other things
<cmaloney> not as the end itself.
<brousch__> But bookie + webview of breadable version is what I would want
<cmaloney> Ah, right
<cmaloney> So you need to figure out how to get kivy to do a decent web view then
<cmaloney> easy peasy.
<brousch__> There are platform-specific attempts like embedding chromium, but they are clunky
<brousch__> Actually phonegap might be a good base for a bookie app
<rick_h_> yea, the lack of the readable view on the android app has been a sticking point myself
<rick_h_> I wanted to pay someone to add it
<rick_h_> that plus some general ui cleanup and I'd use it a lot more
<jrwren> brousch__: can't you use UIWebView? :)
<brousch__> I'm not familiar with Apple, but in general native views are painful to use
<jcastro> rick_h_, man this new X1 dude
<cmaloney> jcastro: Didnt' you hear? Thinkpad is dead.
<jcastro> they were for me
<jcastro> now let's hope they do the same for the X series
<brousch__> Let's hope they kill it?
<jrwren> did you see that phoronix compare of OSX to Ubuntu on MacBook Air, and Ubuntu was faster on every test, sometimes significantly so.
<jcastro> the X240 deserves to be killed
<cmaloney> http://shop.lenovo.com/us/en/ces2015/#index.html?0=6
<cmaloney> Hey look, it's the Atari SIO bus all over again
<jcastro> hah yeah
<cmaloney> There's a curious lack of keyboard shots
<jcastro> http://www.theverge.com/2015/1/4/7491479/lenovo-thinkpad-x1-carbon-laptop-announced-ces-2015
<jcastro> kb looks like they just reverted it to the older one
<jcastro> (which is what I wanted)
<cmaloney> Now I'm interested.
<jcastro> well yeah that's the big news
<jcastro> normal thinkpads are back
<cmaloney> Nice: PrintSC next to alt and caps
<cmaloney> what. the. fuck
<jcastro> that's always been there iirc?
<cmaloney> Not on my laptop
<cmaloney> Seriously, it's bad enough that I accidentally hit "menu". Print-screen is even worse. :)
<cmaloney> It's like taking a record that i'm a dumbass.
<jcastro> you could unbind the key?
<jcastro> or bind it to something else?
<cmaloney> Yeah, i could
<jcastro> another alt or something
<cmaloney> Just seems every laptop has different ideas of where to put the keys
<cmaloney> none of which are optimal
<cmaloney> But seeing a return to form is a nice touch
<jcastro> I know someone with the touchpad Fkeys version
<jcastro> and it was so horrible
<cmaloney> Oh you don't have to convince me
<cmaloney> Just looking at it made me angry
<cmaloney> It's like I wanted to head over to China and shove the designer's nose in it in the hopes they'd never dump that load of shit on the floor again.
<brousch__> So much anger
<cmaloney> http://www.theverge.com/2015/1/5/7492891/wrestlemania-pinball-machine-stern-linux
<cmaloney> Don't care for the license but the tech impresses me
 * DrDaemonEye peers in
<cmaloney> peerless
<DrDaemonEye> Of course not!
<DrDaemonEye> You doing okay with the snow cmaloney?
<brousch__> Too damn cold out
<DrDaemonEye> brousch__: agreed.  I wonder who stuck our part of the world into the freezer...
<rick_h_> jcastro: yep hiting refresh over and over to go back to TP
<cmaloney> Says "Coming Soon"
<cmaloney> not sure that's releasing today is it?
 * cmaloney is listening to My Woshin Mashin - Killing In The Name (Rage Against The Machine Cover)
<brousch__> cmaloney: I made a Go Calculator in Kivy, to help determine the current score of a game https://github.com/brousch/gocalc  http://feralrooster.com:8000/GoCalculator-0.0.2-debug.apk
<cmaloney> brousch__: Nice!
<brousch__> Hm, I haven't looked at persistence on Android yet
<cmaloney> I'm really gettng irritated by Hangouts on my phone
<cmaloney> Seems to get into this weird state where everything just starts not working
<cmaloney> text area: gone
<cmaloney> And the only solution seems to be resetting the phone
<brousch__> I have not experienced that
<cmaloney> And since this worthless piece of whale-snot decided to converge with my SMS it eats my SMS messages as well
<rick_h_> cmaloney: no, the rumor is the new thinkpads will be out 'this month'
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-01-06
<cmaloney> rick_h_: Ah, neato
<rick_h_> my truck has a freaking android app...that can start it and lock it. I'm scared
<cmaloney> Welcome to the future.
<cmaloney> Be very afraid. :)
<rick_h_> unfortunately it's got apps for pandora, slacker, iheartradio...none of which I use. oh well
<greg-g> truck?
<brousch__> rick_h_: I know people who made apps like that. A dev shop in Holland
<brousch__> Your truck starting app
<rick_h_> brousch__: hah
<brousch__> http://spindance.com/
<brousch__> My Lenovo Miix 2 11 arrived last night. Swapping out the SSD involved removing a lot of really tiny ribbon wires, but I did it
<dzho> oh, a Win tablet?
<dzho> convertible, I guess.
<brousch__> Right
<brousch__> Core i5, 8GB RAM, 11.6" 1920x1200, and now 1TB Samsung 840 EVO SSD
<dzho> brousch__: you changing the SSD just to increase capacity, or are you also using it as a backup strategy while putting, oh, let's say, Ubuntu on it?
<brousch__> It came with 256GB, but I need 512GB
<dzho> so now you have 1TB :-)
<brousch__>  So I said wtf, let's go for 1TB
<dzho> you going to keep Win on it?
<brousch__> I'm going to try Linux first, but I actually don't mind Win8.1 on a tablet
<brousch__> I forgot to clone the existing SSD, so I'm waiting for a msata->usb exnclosure before I can restore Windows
<brousch__> While that ships from China I'll give Kubuntu a go on it
<rick_h_> she followed me home last night greg-g https://www.flickr.com/photos/7508761@N03/16028070059/in/photostream/
<brousch__> Those tires look too small. You need big knobby ones
<rick_h_> ummm, no
<rick_h_> though the snow tire debate will be :(
<rick_h_> I just got through getting snow tires on the wife's subaru and had them on the touareg
<rick_h_> I think doing that on this thing will be even more $$$$$$$
<jrwren> nice. I really want a pickup, but like an old beater that i can fill the bed with dirt and mulch for gardening :)
<brousch__> jrwren: That's what our good friend rick_h_ is for!
<rick_h_> jrwren: oh she'll do that as well
<brousch__> Hey rick_h_, I need to move a loveseat from my house to my BIL's in Fremont. Can I borrow the truck for a weekend?
<rick_h_> it's the inside that needs to be kept nice for our SD and VA trips this year
<rick_h_> brousch__: sure, Home Depot rents them, so does U-Haul :P
<brousch__> :-D
<rick_h_> what's sad is that with incentives this thing cost less out the door than my touareg did
<brousch__> Pickup trucks are cheap, until gas gets back to $4/gal
<brousch__> Even then, you won't commute in it every day
<rick_h_> yea, I'll definitely take the hit on that end. She's no hemi, but still will be a good 30% less than the touareg
<jrwren> brousch__: taht is commie talk!  $1.87 for life!
<jrwren> rick_h_: 5.2L ?
<rick_h_> diesel prices boys, still $2+ and it was almost $5
<rick_h_> jrwren: 6.7L cummings
<rick_h_> 800lb ft
<jrwren> rick_h_: HUGE!
<jrwren> rick_h_: you upgrading your trailer?
<rick_h_> jrwren: not yet, I promised the wife I'd not mention airstream until 2017
<rick_h_> jrwren: but now I can tow the trailer and get my kayaks, generator, and move the grill/propane, and bikes to the truck bed vs in the camper
<brousch__> You gonna coal roll that sumabitch?
<rick_h_> and maybe run the camper on long trips with a little fresh water in it with that weight loss
<rick_h_> brousch__: umm no, def tank right next to the fuel tank and I'll keep it full
<rick_h_> not a screamer puffing smoke, nice modern diesel
<ColonelPanic001> >_>
<greg-g> rick_h_: you got a diesel? is that a 2500?
<greg-g> I really want a small 4 door pickup, like one of the nissan frontiers
<rick_h_> greg-g: yes, 2500 cummings 6.7
<rick_h_> greg-g: yea, they've got the dakota/etc back these days
<greg-g> getting a huge fifth wheel or somethign? :)
<rick_h_> 30' airstrain in 2yr :)
<greg-g> :) :)
<rick_h_> but mainly for kayaks + bikes + etc into the truck while towing current camper
<greg-g> you know, heavy things :P
<greg-g> I miss my Ranger
<greg-g> it was only 2wd, but still a tough truck that was fun as hell to drive
<greg-g> (a 6cyl 3.0 in a truck is way more fun than the 4cyl 2.0 in my station wagon :) )
<jrwren> i want an old S10 with 2.2L. good milage and i can fill the bed with dirt :)
<greg-g> good trucks
<cmaloney> Rangers were pretty underpowered iirc
<cmaloney> but apparently fun to beat up
<greg-g> it was freaking tough
<greg-g> really, the only thing that stopped me from keeping it was a deer I hit going 75 mph and the cost to repair being the value of the then 8 year old truck.
<greg-g> (about $8k-ish, according to State Farm/Blue Book)
<cmaloney> Ouch
<greg-g> and then... station wagon :) how I make decisions no one knows
<cmaloney> Hey, station wagons are respectable vehicles
<cmaloney> I have one, but they called it something different
<greg-g> "hatch back"?
<cmaloney> but basically the Caliber is a Station Wagon
<cmaloney> Nah, and it wasn't a SUV either
<cmaloney> feh, it was some stupid marketing name
<greg-g> yeah, like the outback "sport" edition, with a slightly smaller backend
<cmaloney> Pretty much
<greg-g> and a bit taller, if I'm remembering the caliber right
<cmaloney> Sadly the VW sedan has more trunk than the caliber.
 * greg-g nods
<cmaloney> Caliber is taller but has less usable space
<greg-g> huh
<cmaloney> Good for getting a 50 gallon recycling bin home but not much else.
<ColonelPanic001> pickup would be nice for the occasional moving of furniture, but I like my little civic. and it's milage
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-01-07
<rick_h_> damn I can't wait for those thinkpads to come out. I can't type on laptops at coffee shops with these damn touchpads.
<rick_h_> just can't help touching it with my breath or something
<cmaloney> Heh
<cmaloney> I think the first one is out
<rick_h_> orly? which?
<cmaloney> Ars mentioned it and I noticed it in the shop
<cmaloney> The i5 / i7 model
<cmaloney> X1 Carbon
<rick_h_> OH!
<cmaloney> Thought you'd have ordered it by now. :)
<rick_h_> jcastro: it's out already man
<rick_h_> well I was debating the x250 vs x1 carbon
<jcastro> yeah
<rick_h_> I miss my docking station/etc
<rick_h_> and 14" is kind of big
<rick_h_> used to my 11/12/13
<cmaloney> That's OK, they've reinvented external peripherals
<rick_h_> but damn
 * cmaloney is listening to Karl Bartos - 15 Minutes of Fame
 * cmaloney loves this album
<cmaloney> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MARmAG9Is4s <- if you like Kraftwerk this is one of the members
<cmaloney> (former members from 1970s-1980s era Kraftwerk)
<rick_h_> oh hell yea, you can get the nicer resultion without touch!!!!
<rick_h_> lenovo I <3 you
<cmaloney> Oh that's awesome.
<rick_h_> ordered, done
<cmaloney> Heh
<cmaloney> I would have piped up sooner but thought you had already ordered a crate
<rick_h_> nope, didn't see them yet
<rick_h_> and was going to debate the x1 vs the x250
<rick_h_> but $#@$@# it
<cmaloney> Well regardless I'm glad you're back to Thinkpads
<cmaloney> though the new Dell has the screen you've been asking for
<cmaloney> minimal bezel
<rick_h_> yea, saw the new dell but it's not trackpoint
<cmaloney> 13" screen in 11"
<rick_h_> not I can have a freaking awesome high res screen + trackpoint I'll take it
<cmaloney> Yeah, figured since the Thinkpads were "Back" it wasn't worth mentioning. :)
<brousch__> No touch?! What is this, 2013?
<rick_h_>  /not/now
<rick_h_> well sitting here athe coffee shop writing a spec doc watching the text go into a dozen different places as I bump the dippy pad
<cmaloney> brousch__: Keep your filthy mammal-digits off my screen
<brousch__> I will. I use my own screen!
<rick_h_> man I wish I could figure out how to use my N9 without my fingers. Every time I see the screen I have to bring out a new wipe before I can use it
<rick_h_> 2560x1440 boom
<cmaloney> rick_h_: Heh
<cmaloney> It's good to have the "old" rick_h_ back
<rick_h_> lol
<cmaloney> Seeing you with a Dell was akin to seeing someone trying to enjoy a plate of celery
<jcastro> rick_h_, well that settles it
<jcastro> x250 is limited to 8gb of ram
<rick_h_> jcastro: wtf is it?
<rick_h_> jcastro: I mean it bugs me not since I run light weight I hardly cross 4 even with lxc work and such
<rick_h_> but that still seems :(
<jcastro> it's 2015
<jcastro> 4gb is minimum
<jcastro> I mean, I buy 8gb minimum and THEN add on another 4gb just for chrome
<rick_h_> lol
<jcastro> but ram prices were cheaper back then
<DrDaemonEye> cmaloney: I thought you hung around #lj enough to know we don't *eat* celery
<cmaloney> Heh
<jrwren> limited to 8gb of ram... because that is what macbook air does.
 * DrDaemonEye is limited to a calm, 4gb of ram
<brousch__> For some reason everyone is soldering RAM on now
<brousch__> It must save a lot of cost/size/weight vs slots
<_stink_> or it makes you buy a whole new machine
<_stink_> BASTARDS
<jrwren> i think it is mostly for space saving. makes the things that much thinner and lighter.
<rick_h_> yea, blame mobo makers for not supporting > 8gb per slot?
<brousch__> It was really tight in my miix 2 11
 * rick_h_ doesn't know where the limitation came from
<brousch__> I had to remove 4 little boards to replace the msata ssd
<cmaloney> I think Apple made it fashionable again to solder things onto the mobo
<cmaloney> since most folks won't open up their laptop / tablet to take a peek
<cmaloney> And they can ding you an extra $20 for the RAM upgrade
<jrwren> only $20?
<cmaloney> Well, however much more they charge
<cmaloney> Well here's a nice holy shit: http://arstechnica.com/security/2015/01/worlds-first-known-bootkit-for-os-x-can-permanently-backdoor-macs/
<cmaloney> Though I suspect that anything that tampers with EFI / UEFI is the vector-du-jour for physical compromise.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-01-08
<cmaloney> Evening
<rick_h_> party
<_stink_> yes
<cmaloney> Good morning
<brousch__> yes
<rick_h_> morning
<rick_h_> but ugh ugh ugh
<brousch__> I didn't even have to use my ABS
<brousch__> Crap. Supposed to get 9" of snow over today and tomorrow
<cmaloney> brousch__: yeah, we're looking for a few inches of snow
<cmaloney> Not looking forward to shoveling
<cmaloney> will wait until spring.
<rick_h_> lovely, open weather.com to "Deep Freeze Sweeping Several States: Record Temperatures Expected"
 * rick_h_ notes to make sure hte snow blower is fueled and working today
<cmaloney> Yeah, no kidding
<cmaloney> JoDee was upset that noaa.gov had the "chilly guy" for today.
<rick_h_> I swear my son doesn't want to live another year.
<cmaloney> heh
<cmaloney> What did he do now?
<rick_h_> threw a fit that led to saying things best not said which led to a timeout which led to just trying to poke the bear
<cmaloney> Ah, so he's learning tact the hard way
<brousch__> Probing the boundaries
<rick_h_> being a whiny little snot too smart for his own good who's going to end up without a single toy in his room more like it
<brousch__> "What would actually happen if I said x"?
<rick_h_> the issue is he's still not learned he's got one of those stubborn "I'll do what I say" dads
<brousch__> They hear the threats, and occasionally must see if they are not idle
<rick_h_> and it sucked the one time I had to go into his room and find somewhere to put every stuffed animal he owned (that was last year maybe?)
<rick_h_> only has 50 of those dippy things
<brousch__> My goal is to never threaten a punishment that I am not actually willing to enforce
<rick_h_> +1000
<rick_h_> it's like dog training
<rick_h_> I swear it's so much like learning to train a dog
<brousch__> Yes
<cmaloney> with a dog that is trying very hard to be smarter and more clever than you
<brousch__> I banned my son from the movie theater for 12 months
<rick_h_> consistent, same correction every day, inconsistent rewards to keep them wanting more...I've got a 5yr old lab and a 49yr old lab
<rick_h_> if only the older would teach the younger
<cmaloney> 49y/o lab?
<rick_h_> jordyn (doggy year translation)
 * brousch__ hopes he doesn't mean his wife
<cmaloney> Ah
<rick_h_> lol
<cmaloney> Was having trouble parsing that
<brousch__> rick_h_: But if your son is being unusually naughty it could also be because of something unrelated that he is having trouble talking about
<rick_h_> brousch__: no, he just had a melt down because his mom said he could play the lego batman game on his tablet but it wasn't charged
<brousch__> It can be hard to extract the true reason for the behavior, but enlightening if you can get there
<rick_h_> so dad had to explain it, he had meltdown, and then he had to take it 100x father than it needed to go :)
<brousch__> Those are fun
<cmaloney> "This wouldn't have happened had I had an iPad. Stupid Android Household"
<rick_h_> good old fashioned case of "here's some candy...oh you can't have this candy right in front of you" and therefor...the world has ended
<rick_h_> no, in an apple household we'd all be taking turns on the 30pin charging cable and nothing'd be charged :P
<cmaloney> heh
<brousch__> I always ask him, "Do you really think this behavior/attitude is going to fix the situation?" Then toss him in his room while he contemplates it
<rick_h_> yea, we did the "have I ever given you something you wanted because you threw a fit?" "then do you think throwing a fit is going to help you this time?"
<brousch__> Eventually it will stick ;)
<rick_h_> and then it turns into "I don't like this winter coat, please take it back and get me a new one"
<rick_h_> or "I don't want to wear these shoes, I want to wear my nice ones today...in the snow/slush...they won't get dirty"
<rick_h_> and so on and so on
<rick_h_> wheeeeeeee
<rick_h_> while daddy takes deep breaths "I will not just pick him up by the scruff of his neck with my one good arm and throw him into his bed!"
<brousch__> How old is he?
<rick_h_> :)
<rick_h_> 5 for a week
<brousch__> Seems like 4yrs was the biggest problem for mine
<rick_h_> yea, he's too smart for his own good but not yet bright enough to go big picture
<brousch__> 5 was similar, but the fits got shorter
<cmaloney> He needs management traning
<rick_h_> "my leg hurts, I can't put my shoes on" "if you lie to me what happens?" "well it hurts just a little bit, |-| much"
<rick_h_> and you can hear the "now prove to me my leg doesn't hurt just a little bit daddy"
<brousch__> Think of the patience he is teaching you
<rick_h_> between him and work I should be giving seminars :P
<rick_h_> and GSoC is coming again gah!
<rick_h_> anyway, back to work now that he's left the house with mom. she can now swoop in and save the day
<_stink_> rick_h_: haha i love it: while daddy takes deep breaths "I will not just pick him up by the scruff of his neck with my one good arm and throw him into his bed!"
<_stink_> those are pretty much verbatim things my kid has said
<_stink_> you are not alone
<brousch__> No, no, you pick him up by the waist and set him in bed
<cmaloney> Neck is more effective IMHO
<cmaloney> (no, I'm not serious)
<greg-g> I see it was a "dad's vent" morning :)
<rick_h_> it's a rick_h_ vent morning. /me needs to just go crawl back into bed
<greg-g> I wish
<greg-g> I mean, not you, me :P
<rick_h_> lol
<rick_h_> I think my next project is to start a manager support group
<greg-g> haha, I'll sign up
<rick_h_> or maybe that's my startup, manager therapists
<greg-g> "life coaches" are popular, should bank on that somehow
<rick_h_> hmm, yea we'll go for the niche manager market
<rick_h_> we'll need an app though
<greg-g> leadrs.io
<rick_h_> and a mobile plan that's VR ready
<rick_h_> so you can use your oculus to attend support meetings
<rick_h_> with built in hipchat backchannel communication
<_stink_> what about hugs
<_stink_> it needs support for hugs
<rick_h_> some people don't like hugs I've recently found out
<rick_h_> find them creepy
<greg-g> I find those people creepy
<greg-g> :)
<_stink_> robots arms for virtual hugs
<brousch__> hugs by proxy. You each find the nearest person to hug
<brousch__> Uber for hugs
<_stink_> huggr
<greg-g> .io
<brousch__> Looks like it's for sale http://hug.gr/
<brousch__> Only 1000 units of some money
<greg-g> dogecoin
<cmaloney> Life Coaches are so 2000s
<cmaloney> Maybe a Life-Guide instead
<cmaloney> Life-Conductor
<greg-g> Choo Choo!
<cmaloney> OH, how about Life Guard. I'll bet that hasn't been thought of yet.
<greg-g> nope, totally original
<cmaloney> I'm sure there will be a pool of money waiting for us. Perhaps even an ocean
<greg-g> I'm happy with a small lake, don't want to be greedy
<_stink_> yeah you only need a small lake for your first one
<_stink_> you use it to fund the ocean maker
<greg-g> oh right
<greg-g> I really hate the new floating (+) to create new whatevers on google properties (gmail phone app:new message, docs.google:new document, etc)
<greg-g> also, seriously, their QA sucks
<greg-g> I click on the little vertical 3 dots next to a document, click on "open in new tab" and nothing happens
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-01-09
<cmaloney> Good morning
<rick_h_> go go gadget snow blower
<rick_h_> or thrower
<brousch__> shovel
<cmaloney> Shovel here as well
<greg-g> 52F here :)
<cmaloney>    Temperature: 18.0 F (-7.8 C)
<_stink_> i'mthinking i won't shovel at all
<cmaloney> I didn't have a choice.
<brousch__> _stink_: You will shovel or I will drive a load of snow to you for you to shovel
<rick_h_> I can deliver a pickup bed's worth
<_stink_> can't the sun do it for me
<_stink_> when March comes
<rick_h_> lol
<cmaloney> If it were up to me I wouldn't ever shovel.
<ColonelPanic001> shoveling can be nice sometimes
<rick_h_> yea, good audiobook time
<ColonelPanic001> provided I'm not in a big hurry, it's decent exercise, and if it takes a while, sort of a meditative thing. The simple repeated actions, maybe. It can be relaxing in its own way.
<ColonelPanic001> Also I'm an able-bodied 31 year old. I'm not getting a damn snowblower.
<brousch__> >_>
<ColonelPanic001> not a lot to shovel anyway
<rick_h_> yea, we got just over 3" here
<rick_h_> though I claim shoulder for snow blowing :)
<brousch__> I got about 8-9"
<rick_h_> lake bonus!
<greg-g> 0"
<greg-g> (how many more times can I make that series of jokes?)
<rick_h_> :P
<rick_h_> I need a good snow fall to play in and see if I need to get snow tires on the truck.
<rick_h_> played in 4x4 mode a bit this morning
<_stink_> i'm pretty sure my snowblower is not easier than shoveling.
<_stink_> but i am cheap and bought a crap snowblower
<rick_h_> if you get good shovels and it's not that super wet heavy stuff I think that's true
<rick_h_> and hte shovels get down to the cement a bit better
<greg-g> yeah, you always have that last 1/8" of snow on the ground from snow blowers
<greg-g> 1/8 - 1/4
<rick_h_> http://goo.gl/QZQlUM
<rick_h_> best thing evar! ^
<brousch__> too short
<brousch__> Snow was flowing over my tall shovel
<brousch__> https://twitter.com/MarsWxReport/status/553189526487965698
<cmaloney> rick_h_: https://www.flickr.com/photos/kushaldas/13953484303/in/photostream/
<rick_h_> cmaloney: :)
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-01-10
<ADAG10> Evenin' ladies and/or gents.,
<ADAG10> Bah, can't type.
<greg-g> 'eve
<ADAG10> Phew. I nearly ended up blackholing all my traffic...
<ADAG10> Damn, near black-holed my traffic installing MVPS' hosts file...
<cmaloney> Goodmorning
<brousch__> shovelmorning
<cmaloney> I did my shoveling yesterday
<cmaloney> I'm done for the year.
<brousch__> moar
<cmaloney> Nooooooooooooooooooo
<rick_h_> party party
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-01-11
<cmaloney> Afternoon
<widox> heyo
<rick_h_> party
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-01-11
<cmaloney> Morning
<_stink_> yo
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-01-12
<cmaloney> EVening
<_stink_> hey
<cmaloney> how goes?
<_stink_> reasonably
<_stink_> that is the highest praise for an evening
<_stink_> you?
<cmaloney> Waiting for JoDee to get out of class. :)
<cmaloney> woo woo
<cmaloney> brb
<cmaloney> Good morning
<jrwren> what is so good about it? *grumble*
<jrwren> j/k
<jrwren> good morning to you too.
<cmaloney> jrwren: I'd like to think it's a good morning
<cmaloney> :)
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-01-13
<cmaloney> Good morning
<jgransden> good morning
<_stink_> yo
<jrwren> a new MI based canonicaler?!? Anyone know Greg Mason?
<cmaloney> Name seems familiar
<jrwren> i know a greg and I know a mason :)
<greg-g> ohai
<jcastro> jrwren: yeah he's in Lansing, I invited him here
<jrwren> jcastro: cool!
<jcastro> he was at MSU operations
<cmaloney> Great, another MSU fan. ;)
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-01-14
<cmaloney> Apparently spam bots on Twitter will favorite your tweets
<cmaloney> https://twitter.com/squeekyhoho/status/687020815313944577
<cmaloney> Doubt she really enjoyed that tweet
<cmaloney> morning
<_stink_> hey
<cmaloney> Hey, happy birthday _stink_
<_stink_> thanks!
<cmaloney> Sadly, God killed Snape
<cmaloney> and Dumbledore.
<cmaloney> And Bowie.
<cmaloney> and Lemmy.
<cmaloney> and yet Keith Richards remains
<greg-g> the interesting bit to me: Nothing in my twitter feed about Rickman, but all over my FB feed
<cmaloney> greg-g: You have curated well
<cmaloney> or you don't follow anyone
<greg-g> curation
<cmaloney> Suspecting you only follow traffic bots. ;)
<greg-g> heh
<cmaloney> greg-g: Patched
<cmaloney> Of course it could be that the left-coast is just waking up
<cmaloney> I mean you're practically on the other side of the planet from God's timezone
<greg-g> true, we are lazy, too, so most of my left coast associates are still fighting their alarm clock
<cmaloney> I mean it isn't even Bong O'clock over there
<cmaloney> (said from a place of love)
<greg-g> :)
<greg-g> I might have to watch Dogma today, though
<greg-g> should I go see the hatefull eight, or star wars?
<greg-g> jrwren: ^ I trust your opinion on this one :)
<greg-g> cmaloney: you too ^
<jrwren> greg-g: bringing the kid? starwars :p
<jrwren> greg-g: I've not seen hateful eight just yet, so I don't know.
<cscheib> star wars, for the kid in all of us
<greg-g> jrwren: no kid, just me
 * greg-g does his first twitter poll
<cmaloney> greg-g: I've seen neither. :)
<cmaloney> So I have NFC
<cmaloney> Hateful 8 I've heard is amazing in 70mm format, so there's that.
<cmaloney> Put another way: I'm sure Star Wars will still be in theaters in March. :)
<greg-g> there's that, too
<greg-g> you know what, I need a pick me up, not a downer, so I'm going SW
<cmaloney> there you go
<cmaloney> The answer was within you all along
<greg-g> usually is, sometimes you just need friends to get it out ;)
<cmaloney> heh
<greg-g> alright, matinee time it is!
<greg-g> 4pm showing
<cmaloney> Manitees!
<greg-g> :)
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-01-15
<jrwren> well that was some depressing shit. do NOT go watch the snape scenes chronological order thing on youtube
<cmaloney> Good morning
<_stink_> mroing
<greg-g> I was a nerd and installed apt-transport-tor, and switched my httpredir.debian.org addresses in my sources.list.d files and.... holy shit apt-get update is taking forever :)
<greg-g> a la: http://people.skolelinux.org/pere/blog/Always_download_Debian_packages_using_Tor___the_simple_recipe.html
<jrwren> greg-g: really? tor?
<jrwren> greg-g: why would you tor deb packages? just to add tor traffic and make it harder for NSA to analyze?
<greg-g> to ensure my debs aren't compromised :)
 * greg-g was just nerding out
<greg-g> I'm creating my teams Quarterly Review slide deck, needed a thing like that to do at the same time :)
<cmaloney> Seems a bit overkill
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-01-16
<cmaloney> Evening
<greg-g> morning
<cmaloney> How goes?
<greg-g> eh
<greg-g> meh
<cmaloney> That good eh?
<greg-g> headachey saturdays are my least favorite
<cmaloney> Ugh, headaches are the worst
<greg-g> that and "monetizing the API" has come up as a discussion on the public movement-wide mailing list for Wikimedia: https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimedia-l/2016-January/thread.html
<greg-g> scroll to the bottom
<greg-g> Lila Tretikov is our ED
<cmaloney> nice
<greg-g> yeah, I'm not happy with the idea, obviously :)
<cmaloney> I think the second post sums up my feelings quite nice
<greg-g> https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimedia-l/2016-January/081127.html ?
<cmaloney> Yep
 * greg-g nods
<cmaloney> Thing is if you monetize one piece you might as well go all in
<cmaloney> because it's all or nothing
<cmaloney> and folks will figure out ways to get around paying
<cmaloney> eg: scraping the site. :)
<greg-g> yuup
<cmaloney> And whenever money comes into the conversation it taints it
<cmaloney> and nobody, but nobody wants that taint
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-01-17
<jrwren> today I pondered the question, xubuntu or lubuntu.
<jrwren> i went with xubuntu
<cscheib> xubuntu's a pretty solid choice.  <3 xfce
<cscheib> never used lxde
<cmaloney> Good morning
<daemoneye> morning cmaloney
<_stink_> hello
<rick_h_> morning
<cmaloney> Howdt
<greg-g> happy not really sunday!
<cmaloney> For me it's really Sundy.
<cmaloney> not for JoDee though
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-01-09
<cmaloney> mornimg
<_stink__> yo
<cmaloney> How goes?
<_stink__> eh, not bad
<_stink__> you?
<cmaloney> Hanging in there.
<shakes808> morning
<shakes808> not sure how many brew beer or who are interested: https://www.cnet.com/products/picobrew-freestyle/preview/
<wolfger> Morning
<wolfger> I do brew. That is... interesting.
<jrwren> I used to.
<jrwren> picobrew is $$$$$$
<wolfger> Not sure who that's going to appeal to. I'm sure it's somebody's niche.
<wolfger> Yeah... expensive, tiny batch, and (until now) no control over the recipe.
<shakes808> to be able to make small batches like that, would be nice.  I love to do it, but to make over 50 bottles at a time, I would rather make the small test batches before going in on a full batch.
<shakes808> and to have the process only take a couple of hours, instead of weeks, that would be good for everyone from home brewers to micro brewers... but that price is crazy, as jrwren said.
<jrwren> surely its only the brewing process that takes a couple of hours.
<jrwren> you can't speed up fermentation.
<shakes808> correct, they are saying that it will be bottled in a week
<shakes808> *typical grain-to-glass time: 7-10 days
<jrwren> which is pretty short, but not unheard of.
<jrwren> i just cna't imagine the beer will be very good
<shakes808> I know when I was doing 5 gal carboys, it would take me about 2-3 weeks at the minimum.
<jrwren> exactly.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-01-10
<cmaloney> morning
<jrwren> doog morning
<shakes808> morning
<_stink__> yo
<shakes808> has anyone heard of this: https://www.freecodecamp.com/
<shakes808> seems to be a cool way to get on some non-profit projects to give back
<cmaloney> Looks like a lot of the other code camps
<shakes808> oh really?  this is the first one that I have seen
<cmaloney> Or maybe I've seen something like that already.
<cmaloney> Not sure.
<jrwren> Established: 818days ago
<jrwren> yes, I've heard of them, but I don't recall where.
<greg-g> yo
<wolfger> -yo
<cmaloney> yo
<wolfger> ma
<cmaloney> mu
<greg-g> coo
<brousch__> What DE are you all using these days?
<cmaloney> UNity
<brousch__> It no longer sucks?
<jrwren> no, its pretty terrible.
<brousch__> I'm trying to get along with KDE, but little things are annoying me
<brousch__> Apple's touchpad has really spoiled me
<jrwren> yup.
<jrwren> all other laptops suck.
<brousch__> The scrolling on this is driving me nuts. It's so twitchy, and I can't get it to reverse direction (damn you Steve Jobs) in every application
<jrwren> what kind of hardware?
<brousch__> ï»¿ï»¿Dell Latitude
<jrwren> I really like the simplicity of xfce, autohide a few bars and maximzie windows nicely
<brousch__> Hm, I forgot about those light DMs
<cmaloney> http://gobretail.com/gobretail-ecom/Gamesinfo.php?gobitemcode=GOB098257&usedproduct=1
<brousch__> I did like XFCE
<brousch__> Cute little hamster
<brousch__> cmaloney: I'm blind now. Thank you.
<cmaloney> Don't listen to jrwren. His mind is corrupted.
<cmaloney> brousch__: You're welcome.
<brousch__> Wow, how did it get to be 4:30 already?
<cmaloney> Well, there's this thing called "time"...
<greg-g> tiiiiiiiiiiiime, it's on my side, yes it is
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-01-11
<cmaloney> Morning
<widox> morning
<cmaloney> How's the day so far?
<shakes808> morning
<widox> meh. trying to fend off getting a cold
<_stink__> parry and counter?
<widox> Heather has been sick the past couple days, and I think its trying to get me next
<cmaloney> widox: Ugh
<widox> cmaloney: so, I prolly won't attempt CHC tonight :-/
<cmaloney> Yeah, that's what I gathered. :)
<cmaloney> no worries.
<rick_h> crappy back home?
<jrwren> weather? yesterday was, but today is nice... its warm and finally dry.
<rick_h> ah nice
<rick_h> did the snow/ice all melt?
<rick_h> school was closed today and yesterday based on my voicemail
<cmaloney> It sort of melted
<cmaloney> but it's still cold
<cmaloney> And a little icy
<jrwren> greg-g: don't get fired!
<Zimdale> Anyone deal with ubuntu on a surface pro?
<Zimdale> How is it?
<greg-g> jrwren: what'd I do?
<jrwren> greg-g: wiki down
<jrwren> greg-g: seems fine now.
<greg-g> yeah, just went into #wikimedia-operations
<greg-g> well, looked in
<greg-g> at a dev summit right now
<greg-g> our*
<cmaloney> jrwren: Stop taking down Wikipedia. ;)
<jrwren> lol.
<jrwren> its what i get for trying to go to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/âAIMON
<greg-g> jcastro: jrwren hey! help a good guy get the mediawiki package backported to yakkety! https://bugs.launchpad.net/xenial-backports/+bug/1637331
<greg-g> er, in xenial
<jrwren> greg-g: last time I asked for anything, they said, "no".  You'll be better off making a snap. :p
<cmaloney> Can anyone tell me who should give two craps about snaps?
<cmaloney> Or is that the point
<gamerchick02> aren't snaps a way to package programs so you have all the dependencies?
<cmaloney> Yes, they're like appimages
<greg-g> .app
<cmaloney> except appimages are used by folks outside of the ubuntu ecosphere.
<gamerchick02> yeah
<gamerchick02> i'm not passionate about them. i just install things from the repos...
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-01-12
<cmaloney> jcastro: Jesus: https://twitter.com/castrojo/status/819325897161457664
<jrwren> lol @ jcastro server.
<shakes808_> hey guys,  i am looking to go to penguicon.  how do i purchase tickets? or is it free?
<jrwren> its not free.
<jrwren> you wait until reg is open and you buy tickets :)
<shakes808_> when does that happen?
<cmaloney> I think the tickets are already on sale
<cmaloney> but you'll want to get a hotel room
<jrwren> 21:48  cmaloney| I think the tickets are already on sale
<jrwren> 21:49  cmaloney| but you'll want to get a hotel room
<jrwren> shakes808_: ^^^
<wolfger> https://2017.penguicon.org/
<cmaloney> Apologies, I don't have join / part messages on by default. :)
<shakes808_> jrwren: thank you.
<shakes808_> cmaloney: thank you
<shakes808_> wolfger: I was there and didn't see anything but buying ribbons
<shakes808_> so if i buy one ribbon for $4, that is my entrance fee?  Or am I not seeing something?
<cmaloney> https://2017.penguicon.org/registration/
<shakes808_> cmaloney: .... thank you?!  is that in a different menu option?   When I go to registration, it only has the Ribbons available.
<cmaloney> You have to click on the "registration" link, not the "ribbons" dropdown
<shakes808_> Ah, thought that was just the top of the category and the sub categories were the only thing clickable.  :( n00b, sorry
<cmaloney> Nah, it's just bad design
<cmaloney> You get used to it
<cmaloney> morning
<shakes808> morning
<shakes808> cmaloney: I know you know some mysql :)  Question
<shakes808> I am trying to get entries before 5PM current day
<rick_h> afternoon
<shakes808> My WHERE clause is: AND from_unixtime(timefield,  '%Y %D %M %H:%i:%s') < curdate() + '17:00:00'
<shakes808> didn't seem to work for me.  any hints?
<cmaloney> a: What time zone is your database set to?
<cmaloney> SELECT @@system_time_zone; //from this you can get the system timezone
<cmaloney> shakes808: ^^
<cmaloney> Also: you appear to be converting a time field into a "datetime"
<cmaloney> don't do that. :)
<cmaloney> You'd be better off creating variables of the UNIX timestamp from midnight to 17:00 for the current day and comparing that.
<shakes808> So my time zone is EDT.  which is good, but how am i going to get 5pm current day?
<cmaloney> https://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.5/en/date-and-time-functions.html#function_unix-timestamp
<cmaloney> You'll need to determine if your unix timestamps are UTC and adjust accordingly
<shakes808> cmaloney: alright, thank you.  I will see what I can do
<cmaloney> have fun
<shakes808> i am sure that they are EDT times.
<shakes808> woot woot
<cmaloney> Verify that
<brousch__> Some of our Python stuff is moving to Go. rick_h isn't that what you use?
<jrwren> brousch__: don't do it. fight it tooth and nail.
<brousch__> Heh, well not really my fight to make
<jrwren> brousch__: go is the biggest mistake and disaster and snake oil to happen to the industry... possibly ever.
<jrwren> brousch__: find out who is making the decision and try to educate tehm.
<brousch__> What's wrong with it?
<jrwren> sooo sooo much.
<jrwren> brousch__: here is a good start: http://nomad.so/2015/03/why-gos-design-is-a-disservice-to-intelligent-programmers/
<brousch__> Hm
<cmaloney> Um, they're not convincing me with this example: http://paste.ubuntu.com/23787332/ <- the D-language version
<jrwren> cmaloney: what is wrong with that example?
<cmaloney> It's not more readable. ;)
<cmaloney> and there are certain concepts that are hidden to non-D-developers
<jrwren> cmaloney: more readable than what? the go equiv?
<cmaloney> eg: to!
<cmaloney> yes
<jrwren> cmaloney: its more concise for sure.
<cmaloney> Definitely.
<cmaloney> The examples of Go remind me of Pascal / Modula2
<cmaloney> with C thrown in for good measure
<jrwren> its not just about the go code though.
<jrwren> Rob Pike's lesser programmers thoughts are a problem.
<cmaloney> Definitely
<cmaloney> Though I think the bigger problem is how to make Java developers productive
<cmaloney> and develoeprs that have only been exposed to Java / C++ using STL
<jrwren> at google, they are very productive. so productive that they make the java compilation process slow, and go needed to be made.
<cmaloney> and Python / Scripting developers.
<jrwren> #1 reason Go exists, is to solve google's single checkout slow compile times. I has nothing to do with a newer better language for developers. Its a simpler language for a simpler compiler.
<jrwren> It is the ultimate of making humans serve the machien instead of the machien serve humans.
<cmaloney> At Google that's probably a better way to look at it. ;)
<cmaloney> The machines seem to get pretty testy. ;)
<jrwren> lol.
<cmaloney> jrwren: So what are your pain-points with Go?
<jrwren> I'll give Go a bit of credit. The 1 way of style formatting is nice. So nice, javascript has tools to do the same now: https://github.com/jlongster/prettier
<Zimdale> I've been having a hell of a time with package management in go though :(
<cmaloney> Zimdale: that is a problem of any language less than 10 years old
<jrwren> Zimdale: that is too bad. godeps is the tool we use, and I actually like it. Its great and I've had very little package management issue.
<cmaloney> Python managed to solve that after years of churn
<Zimdale> I was just over spoiled with npm
<jrwren> python solved it? wut? when? where was I? :)
<Zimdale> I haven't tried godeps
<Zimdale> used govendor a bit and it was rough
<jrwren> ha... hahaha... npm?  oh my. I should have guessed.
<cmaloney> jrwren: la la la la, can't hear you.
<cmaloney> .whl FTW. ;)
<jrwren> ya know... I guess npm DOES work... once you adopt it fully.  its just so foreign from a diff BG... and npm -g is still evil.
<jrwren> cmaloney: how does that work on windows? :)  does pypi have the wheel?  :)   Sorry... so sorry... ugh.
<cmaloney> npm is OK, save for the dependencies on packages for everything under the sun
<jrwren> ya know... i hated on npm for a long time... but htese days... I agree. it is pretty great.
<cmaloney> jrwren: Honeslty most of the problems of Python disappear when you tell Windows users to GTFO
<Zimdale> it works for what it's meant to do
<jrwren> cmaloney: exactly!
<jrwren> Zimdale: exactly!
<cmaloney> "I can't compile MySQL libraries" <- GTFO
<cmaloney> "I can't compile SDL" <- GTFO
<Zimdale> That sounds like most languages cmaloney
<jrwren> the trick is learning that the way python, npm, and go use packages are each different and so what it is meant to do is different in each case, adn tehn you want something that one does but doesn't and filling the holes becomes necessary.
<cmaloney> Sounds like OO in JavaScript
<jrwren> MSFT gave up and made Subsystem for Linux and Ubuntu for Windows
<Zimdale> I am actually pretty glad I got a job that isn't just js all the time.
<Zimdale> So many horrible practices :(
<jrwren> really?
<Zimdale> It's javascript Â¯\_(ã)_/Â¯
<jrwren> the community members I know all have pretty great standards and practices.
<jrwren> I think because its 20yrs old now, there is a lot of legacy bagage and so a lot of old bad stuff.
<jrwren> a lot like C, C++ and Perl
<cmaloney> https://www.dropbox.com/s/7rvx4wx39seb5or/Screenshot%20from%202017-01-12%2011%3A17%3A37.png?dl=0 <- I love argument by Wikipedia links
<Zimdale> There's a lot of standards and stuff we followed but it took so much effort in testing just to make a solid system
<Zimdale> 'bout to do some xml parsing in go
<Zimdale> \o/
<jrwren> lol... do what ya gotta do. I do too.
<jrwren> for js folks... have you seen nabs?  it looks really great.
<Zimdale> the yaml thing?
<wolfger> jrwren: did you just call Perl "bad stuff"???
<cmaloney> Perl lost the plot for a while
<wolfger> Oh, I read it (slightly) wrong.
<wolfger> Perl is full of legacy baggage and bad stuff....
<wolfger> <shrug> I suppose it probably is.
<jrwren> wolfger: I LOVE perl. don't get me wrong... but... its old and crusty and it took many years to find its way to being better and so there is a lot of perl code out there which could have been written much better.
<jrwren> a lot like C and C++ in that regard.
<wolfger> I initially read that as "it's full of bad stuff: C, C++, and Perl".
<cmaloney> any language with a history is going to have bad stuff
<cmaloney> I'm sure there's Ruby / Python code out there still in use that isn't up to par
<cmaloney> (probably more Ruby code than Python because of the heavy churn during the Rails era)
<cmaloney> s/Rails/early Rails/g
<jrwren> definitely.
<jrwren> espeically given python 2.x GC changes.
<jrwren> object lifecycle best practices changed <2.5 to >2.5
<cmaloney> Yeah, i actively tried to blacklist python 1.5 from my machine
<jrwren> ugh... 1.x...
<wolfger> LOL... any language with a history has bad stuff. Languages without much history, even more so!
<shakes808> http://www.mlive.com/news/index.ssf/2017/01/bill_would_eliminate_daylight.html#incart_river_index
<jrwren> feels good man.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-01-13
<shakes808> FRIDAY MORNING!
<jrwren> gotta get down.
<jrwren> how you doing?
<shakes808> awesome! and yourself?
<jrwren> alive and kicking.
<shakes808> better than the alternative
<jrwren> Le Matos kicking on the headphones, so its great.
<cmaloney> morning
<shakes808> morning
<brousch__> morning
<greg-g> morning
<rick_h> Evening
<jrwren> rick_h: how was the week?
<jrwren> rick_h: choose on this scale: https://images.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fcceffect.org%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2016%2F02%2FStandard-Pain-Scale.png&f=1
<rick_h> Ahit ahit and more shit
<rick_h> But hey, 5tg glass of pinotage going down well
<jrwren> sounds like a 8
<rick_h> 9
<jrwren> damn!
<rick_h> But close
<cmaloney> 5tg? Is that tera-gallons?
<jrwren> currency, I'd guess.
<jrwren> hrm...no... that is zar
<cmaloney> I think it's "taster's guild"
<cmaloney> as in scoring
<jrwren> ahh!!
<cmaloney> I like mine better
<rick_h> 5th
<rick_h> :p
<cmaloney> Ah, so it's a typo after the 5th glass of wine. ;)
<rick_h> Maybe...
<rick_h> You can't prove anything
<cmaloney> JoDee is taking a networking class and I'm having to re-learn the OSI model
<cmaloney> also: she's not taking an online course, but OCC has all of their shit through some IBM online-testing curriculum
<gamerchick02> is that as awful as it sounds?
<cmaloney> Well, the "instructor" she has is basically a TA thay got from industry.
<cmaloney> s/thay/they/
<gamerchick02> lol that's ok.
<gamerchick02> sometimes people from industry can be great. sometimes not so much
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-01-14
<cmaloney> Happy Birthday _stink__
<_stink__> thanks cmaloney!
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-01-15
<cmaloney> Evening
#ubuntu-us-mi 2018-01-09
<greg-g> even in "warm" norcal, if you leave your house for 3 days with the heat off, it's damn cold when you get back
<Scary_Guy> do like I do and just never shut off your space heater, ever
<Scary_Guy> okay, usually when it hits about mid April in the daytime
<cmaloney> Good morning
<cmaloney> btw: MUG Meeting tonight
<cmaloney> https://www.meetup.com/Michigan-usr-group-Linux-Users-Group-in-Farmington-Hills/events/qkgmbhyxcbmb/
<cmaloney> https://www.meetup.com/Michigan-usr-group-Linux-Users-Group-in-Farmington-Hills/ if you want to be automagically notified
<_stink_> computerized notification?? what an age we live in
<cmaloney> It's an amazing time
<Scary_Guy> I think there's some type of ical thing too on meetup, which is neat.  I just set a thing on the calendar for the second Tuesday of the month.
<Scary_Guy> unfortunately I'm probably skipping this month, too much to do around here
<cmaloney> We also have the meeting on our website, but some folks might want to use Meetup to RSVP
<cmaloney> (Zimdale)
<cmaloney> (lmorchard)
<waldo323> packing up and heading to mug :)
<waldo323> hope to see you there
<cmaloney> Whee
#ubuntu-us-mi 2018-01-10
<cmaloney> Good morning
<rick_h> morning
<cmaloney> How's the morning so far?
<rick_h> looking forward to the warmer day with some rain to wash some stuff away hopefully
<cmaloney> Heh
<cmaloney> We still have ice on the driveway so hoping it melts it
<rick_h> yea, there's a couple of spots. I've got packages coming today to did toss a handful of salt on a couple of spots this morning
<rick_h> mainly I'm thinking the road stuff needs to get flushed. It's such slush out there
<rick_h> in our neighborhood road at least
<cmaloney> Yeah
<Scary_Guy> global warming, huzzah!
<waldo323> also great lakes warming
<cmaloney> That's OK; we'll have a shit-ton of snow this weekend
<cmaloney> because why not.
<cmaloney> Also: That Lake Huron pizza at Buddy's is amazeballs
<cmaloney> I never thought I'd say that about a non-tomato-sauce based pizza but here we are
<rick_h> I've got to drive up north friday...I love snow but a multi-hour drive in 5-8" :/
<cmaloney> http://buddyspizza.com/Menu/Signature-Pizzas
<cmaloney> rick_h: Ugh. Is this for camping or ... ?
<rick_h> cmaloney: annual ski weekend for the wife and boy
<cmaloney> Ah
<rick_h> we go up to crystal mountain every winter
<cmaloney> Well, at least there will be snow up there.
<rick_h> so yay fresh snow maybe up there
<rick_h> but definitely not looking forward to the drive at night
<cmaloney> though the weather forecasters are saying 20" for some lucky area
 * rick_h hates driving highways when you can't see the lines with other people
<rick_h> hah
<cmaloney> That's "lose a small child in a snow drift" levels of snow
<cmaloney> rick_h: I can totally relate
<cmaloney> Even driving down some of the streets here where the lines are so faded as to be insisible under a layer of salt sucks
<cmaloney> adding speed to that is awful
<cmaloney> BTW: CHC tonight: https://www.meetup.com/Coffee-House-Coders-Royal-Oak/events/246286800/
<greg-g> rick_h: reminds me of my trip from Northeast MO to Minneapolis one winter. Ended up in the ditch in southen MN. I was getting cocky and counting the number of cars in the ditch, hit a rut the wrong way... done. Spent the night in an armory. Got a couple nice quilts out of the deal that I use in the motorhome still. They closed the highway right after I went passed an offramp, so I was probably the last
<greg-g> person to be on that stretch. Oh well.
<greg-g> not saying you'll do the same, hopefully :)
<waldo323> re: snow this weekend, ugh have a meeting on saturday which is a bit of a drive
#ubuntu-us-mi 2018-01-11
<cmaloney> morning
<_stink_> yo
<rick_h> morning
<cmaloney> Apparently Craig Maloney (UK) changed his address
<cmaloney> I know this because Craig Maloney (UK) used my email address on his phone account
<cmaloney> so I (Craig Maloney, USA) contacted support to see if they would remove the address.
<_stink_> heh, my wife gets tons of stuff from a woman with the same name in maryland
<_stink_> like etsy vendors, her gym, her ob/gyn...
<cmaloney> Yipes
<cmaloney> The agent was a little surprised when I said "I don't have a phone number", meaning I'm not in the UK
<cmaloney> and doubly so when I gave a 1-248 number
<_stink_> listen to me speak.  i am MERICAN.
<cmaloney> It was online chat
<cmaloney> screw calling the UK for this
<rick_h> lol
#ubuntu-us-mi 2018-01-12
<waldo323> good morning
<rick_h> Snowy morning
<rick_h> Roads are fuuuun!
<waldo323> it was raining when I got to work
<waldo323> I guess it is being michigan out
<_stink_> in the 10 minutes i was out to take my boys to school
<_stink_> it went from sleet to big fluffy snow
<waldo323> yikes, sounds dangerous out.     vim question,  i'd like to open vim with the cursor at a line which has particular text is there a way to do this directly with vim?  otherwise I figure I can find the line number some other way and go from there
<_stink_> good segue there waldo323
<_stink_> i can't think of a way.
<waldo323> thank you :)
<waldo323> oops, I forgot I couldn't enter vim directly for cron anyway and I don't think crontab -l accepts line numbers
<cmaloney> Good morning
<cmaloney> I'm glad I don't have to drive in this
<cmaloney> the lids on the trash bins were covered with ice
<cmaloney> waldo323: You likely want sed
<rick_h> +1 to sed, and awk! can't have sed without awk!
<rick_h> well, you can. but it's much less cool that way
<cmaloney> heh
<cmaloney> Although I think I misread the question
<cmaloney> But in the process I learned about a few vim command line options
<waldo323> can i use that(sed/awk) coupled with contab -e ?
<rick_h> sure
<waldo323> I'm not seeing options for crontab to pass arguments to the text editor (vim)
<waldo323> I'd searched previously and thought perhaps my search fu wasn't quite working. it isn't a big deal, more of a it would be nice if there was something to speed the process up
<waldo323> I think the better option is to move management of cron to ansible :)
<cmaloney> Yeah, ansible would be my choice for cron
<cmaloney> or moving files into cron.d
<cmaloney> rather than manage one large crontab
<cmaloney> Oh, this looks handy: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/134906/how-do-i-list-all-cron-jobs-for-all-users
<cmaloney> https://stackoverflow.com/a/137173/535883
<cmaloney> (in particular)
<waldo323> oh neat
<waldo323> thanks
<waldo323> it is helpful to see things all in one place
#ubuntu-us-mi 2018-01-13
<Scary_Guy> https://media.8ch.net/file_store/4c00d7a3e89a002d0bc245d03d5c5e0b19f9bbfd159096f69e7825bf0a3e9062.jpg
<cmaloney> ummm...
<_stink_> didn't click
<cmaloney> neither did I
#ubuntu-us-mi 2018-01-14
<Scary_Guy> I obviously wouldn't have pasted if it were anything bad
<cmaloney> Happy Birthday _stink_
<Scary_Guy> morning
<cmaloney> morning
<_stink_> cmaloney: thanks!
<cmaloney> )
<cmaloney> We're celebrating by going to Meijer
<_stink_> ah yes, this is my only birthday wish.
<cmaloney> \m/
<Scary_Guy> Meijer is a pretty great store, I hope Amazon and Wallmart don't kill it off
<cmaloney> Same
