#ubuntu-devel 2005-05-02
<schweeb> \sh: ew kmail. my hate for that is for purely different reasons than evo (mostly I refuse to install Qt)
<\sh> schweeb: well..then only one solution left: thunderbird ;)
* \sh has other problems then to decide which mail client to use ,)
<bob2> eddyp: malone is both
<eddyp> umkay
<schweeb> \sh: yes, that is what I use :)
<\sh> bob2: malone is far away from being a bugzilla replacement, but it's a good beginning for non-bugzilla noobs ;)
<bob2> meh
<eddyp> bob2: will malone be open source?
<eddyp> i am thinking that if it is better than bugzilla, then it would be a nice tool
<schweeb> I believe it'll be closed source
<schweeb> like Rosetta is
<eddyp> I was wondering about this... why is that?
<schweeb> cause it's one of the things that Canonical has decided to make its profit off of, most likely
<eddyp> and they use ubuntu as a test bench at the same time
<eddyp> nice idea
<eddyp> and smart
<seb128> tseng, evo has really some issue ?
<tseng> seb128: yep
<seb128> and detail ?
<seb128> s/and/any/
<tseng> The following packages have unmet dependencies:
<tseng>   evolution: Depends: libcamel1.2-3 (>= 1.2.2) but it is not going to be installed
<tseng>              Depends: evolution-data-server (>= 1.2.1) but it is not going to be installed
<tseng> eddyp: Broken packages
<seb128> doesn't help a lot
<seb128> do you why/how it's broken, how to fix it ?
<tseng> wel, everything else is built with libcamel1.2-0
<seb128> "everything else" ?
<eddyp> tseng: errr, what?
<tseng> c-l-a, gnomemeeting, libebook
<eddyp> autocompetion does not work in this manner
<eddyp> :)
<tseng> libedata-book1.2-2, libdataserverui1.2, nautilus-sendto
<seb128> hum
<tseng> i *think* libcamel1.2-3 got synced from sid
<seb128> feel free to fix it i you want, or I'll fix that within 1 or 2 weeks
<tseng> and broke it all
<tseng> ill bring up mutt and see if its in b-changes
<Keybuk> yeah
<Keybuk> evolution-data-server1.2 got synced from sid
<Keybuk> and overwrote our evolution-data-server (note no 1.2) packages
<seb128> fuck
<Keybuk> needs another e-d-s upload to put it back
<seb128> I pinged elmo saturday about this but got no reply, I get that's not the right week to ping somebody :p
<seb128> -1 was ftbfsing on saturday
<Keybuk> indeed
<tseng> im not sure if i am in keyring, but im almost certain I cant upload to main
<tseng> any takers?
<Keybuk> next week is non-hacking as well
<seb128> right, but if I've the bandwith I can do one upload
<Keybuk> I _think_ that uploading an evolution-data-server 1.2.2-2ubuntu1 package would suffive
<Keybuk> even if it's just 1ubuntu1 with the version number changed
<seb128> I think so
<seb128> I put the version to 1ubuntu1 instead of 0ubuntu1 for this reason on the previous one
<Keybuk> it's not hugely urgent though
<Keybuk> it's an impossible upgrade, so the worst people can do without trying hard is have the slightly older evo packages
<tseng> yeah i was just joking about it, i assumed you were aware of the situation
<seb128> nop, some people put a useless bugzilla bug
<seb128> ie: they managed to put 10 comments without any one useful to understand the bug
<tseng> well, you understand it now :)
<seb128> and we have a 3ko/s download or something like that here
<tseng> ugh.
<|QuaD-> tseng: how is mono 1.1.x/beagle in breezy coming along?
<tseng> fine.
<|QuaD-> do you have an eta?
<tseng> after UDU
<|QuaD-> is it finnished and you are just waiting?
<tseng> yes
<tseng> mostly.
<|QuaD-> heh, ok :(
<ogra> morning pitti 
<tseng> hi ogra 
<pitti> Hey everybody
<tseng> hi pitti.
<ogra> hey tseng
<seb128> morning pitti 
<zyga> hello pitti 
<amu-> moin pitti
<pitti> Hey seb128, long time no see
<seb128> right :)
<ogra> pitti, you dont look under your bed to often, eh 
<ogra> ?
<\sh> ogra: have a nice day down under :) don't eat to many kangas ;)
<ogra> heh... havent even seen one yet :)
<tseng> wo ist herr holbach? :P
<\sh> ogra: well, they're frightend because of you :) a german with long hair ... no ways, lets get a move on ;)
<ogra> tseng, they are buying washing powder....
<tseng> get the linux brand
<\sh> they have "plus" there?
<ogra> \sh, no, i think they fear me because i dont wear that nifty crocodile dundee hat
<\sh> hehehe
<\sh> ogra: i have one..why didn't you ask for it ;)
<ogra> \sh, they are not to expensive, so i can have my own one :)
<\sh> *grmpf* again harddrive broken at netapp-orastore
<\sh> time to sleep...
<\sh> g'night gentlemen :)
* amu- hat hunger 
* ogra macht nochn espresso....
<zyga> argh
* zyga finds painfully that it's hard to find something that does not use malloc
<pitti> zyga: what should it use instead?
<jcole> Kamion: i've gotten further... it appears that the adduser .deb is needed... is there a way to get the list of debs i need to copy back :)
<Kamion> jcole: not really. look in /usr/lib/debootstrap/scripts/hoary for a start, but you'll need more than that.
<Kamion> jcole: http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/germinate-output/hoary/base might be a useful start to
<Kamion> er, too
<jcole> thanks again Kamion, i'll do some more homework before bugging you again... when i figure this out, i'll be sure to post up a how to
<crb> Hi.
<crb> Can anyone shed any light on why the kernel package in hoary is versioned 2.6.10-7 and the modules, 2.6.10-5 ?
<Kamion> crb: the latter is the module ABI
<Kamion> crb: every time binary module compatibility breaks, the number that's currently 5 is incremented
<Kamion> crb: the former is simply the package version, incremented on every upload
<Kamion> although actually I don't know where you got 2.6.10-7 ...
<crb> I'm sure it was -7 somewhere, let me look..
<crb> linux-image-386_2.6.10-7_i386.deb
<Kamion> oh, that's a metapackage; again, that's just the package version
<Kamion> linux-image-386 is just there to depend on the current linux-image-*-386 (currently linux-image-2.6.10-5-386)
<crb> I'm remastering a hoary CD with preseed and some universe packages I want on it (I've removed all the packages that ubuntu-desktop depends on)
<Lathiat> ~>
<crb> my pool still contains all the right files, but for some reason I can't install linux-image-386 any more so the installer is falling over.
<Kamion> make sure you have all linux-* packages from the original CD
<crb> And it's obviously not the versioning. :)
<dholbach> hai
<Kamion> linux-386 is the one used by default ...
<crb> I was pretty sure I did.. there's nothing special in the Packages file that dpkg-scanpackages won't generate for me?
<Kamion> (or should be, anyway; base-installer is finicky)
<Kamion> crb: (a) you probably want to use apt-ftparchive nowadays instead, (b) Task: headers
<crb> I'm skipping tasksel so I'm less worried about those
<Kamion> we don't use tasksel either
<crb> the installer is trying to install linux-386 and failing because l-i-386 is not installable and l-r-m-386 is not going to be installed.  Yet all of the packages are in the pool and in the right place...
<Kamion> they're used by archive-copier and base-config. however if you aren't installing the desktop and don't care about preserving the "CD used only in first stage of install" thing then Task: headers probably won't be necessary
<Kamion> did you keep all the dependencies of those? they're not all linux-*
<Kamion> particularly in the case of l-r-m
<crb> I'm reasonably sure I did, but I might have missed something
<Kamion> failing that, try 'chroot /target apt-get install linux-386' and start drilling down by hand
<Kamion> as in, try each package in turn until you get a useful error
<crb> there are a couple of packages that caused me grief; I removed everything that ubuntu-desktop dragged in, and it ended up removing libsasl2 and lsb-* for some reason
<crb> I'm doing that already; the errors aren't that useful :(
<crb> just 'couldn't find packages' for those packages
<crb> but they're there, on the CD, same place...
<Kamion> apt-get doesn't look through the pool itself; it uses the Packages indices
<Kamion> it won't matter a dime whether they're actually on the CD if they're missing from Packages
<crb> I checked the Packages indices for the files, and they were actually there
<Kamion> ok
* crb looks harder
<Kamion> might also be worth checking whether /target/etc/apt/sources.list got set up correctly
* Kamion has to wander off for a bit; should really actually attend this keynote
<crb> you at linux.conf.au?
<crb> aha - Packages.gz MD5SUM mismatch
<dholbach> do we have a page stating when people will be in sydney?
<dholbach> hey lamont 
<dholbach> lamont: when will you be here? sunday?
<lamont> dholbach: I arrive at 6AM saturday, for a day of running around sydney before I'm supposed to be tehre
<dholbach> lamont: cool
<dholbach> lamont: we can show you the nice spots ;-)
<lamont> heh
<lamont> coolness
<dholbach> hrm... need to get back to the power supply
<dholbach> sydney really rocks#
<crb> I hope you're all looking forward to coming to New Zealand for lca next year :)
<infinity> lca in .nz?... But.. But.. That would be lcnz...
<infinity> <head explodes>
<luis_> I'm totally looking forward to lcanz
<HrdwrBoB> lcapr
<HrdwrBoB> now in papua new guinea
<milli> lamont: Bandwidth available for a few hours
<lamont> milli: hrm...  doing ok here I think,..
<lamont> or was that a dinner invite?
<alex_g> do you plan an update from evolution 2.2.1.1 to 2.2.2?
<lamont> alex_g: bug #9693 at bugilla.ubuntu.com
<lamont> elmo: quik-installer is unknown, and not actually in main.
<jdub> ahr
<dholbach> jdub
<tseng> yar
<tseng> its a dub!
<alex_g> ok
<dholbach> jdub: when we're going to have a beer?
<dholbach> jdub: or aren't you in sydney atm? probably not...
<dholbach> nevermind me
<jdub> dholbach: heh, no, in canberra atm
<jdub> dholbach: i will see you on sunday or monday :)
<dholbach> jdub: cool, i'm sure we all need some "warming up" for UDU, in the one way or the other :-)
<crb> hmmm
<crb> remove the MD5SUMS from the Release file in dists/ and the installer complains about not finding the other Packages[,.gz]  files
<bluefoxicy> zyga:  yo
<bluefoxicy> evidently my allocator almost but not quite works ;)
<bluefoxicy> (it's generating negative-sized allocations)
<blahrus> is ac3 still broken in mplayer?
<zul> hey dholbach 
<dholbach> hey zul 
<zul> how is it going?
<dholbach> zul: very nice... brainstorming with seb128
<zul> cool
<dholbach> zul: you'll be here in sydney?
<zul> nope...unforutnately maybe the next one
<dholbach> oh, i'm sorry :-/
<zul> besides my wife would whine forever if she couldnt go :)
<dholbach> ah... i understand
<infinity> pitti : still enjoying Sydney, or are you sick of it already?
<pitti> infinity: it's a bit rainy today, time for preparing some BoFs and writing some postcards :-) But it's fine, there are still things I want to do here
<Kamion> crb: LCA> yeah
<Kamion> crb: you have to update the md5sums/sizes in Release, and then figure out what to do about Release.gpg
<Kamion> replacing the ubuntu-keyring package with one that includes your key is an option :) we're going to talk at UDU about how to make this less gratuitously painful
<lamont> Kamion: and "what to do about Release.gpg" is to generate a new key, and add that to the ubuntu-keyring package, which you also update, and iterate...
<lamont> Kamion: actually... if memory serves, there are other ways to abuse it much nicer...
<Kamion> lamont: what to do about it> making apt just get a grip and not care about authentication on CDs is my preferred option :)
<lamont> ISTR that my custom dvd this time around, I left the root tree alone, added an /extras/ directory, and just dropped a complete archive under that (which had an updateded ubuntu-keying, etc)
<Kamion> as in, not care if it's missing altogether
<lamont> since the installer looks for all the Packages files on the CD, you get the new stuff, and I didn't have to pollute the actual release tree
<lamont> of course, cd-checker probably doesn't like that too much
<Kamion> shouldn't think it'd care
<lamont> even better... /me didn't check
* lamont beats egenix-mx-base
<lamont> 66841151728a06f92d0b8dd2ed317a29  egenix-mx-base_2.0.6.orig.tar.gz
<lamont> 6989793b7cb6b577be9ebfdd554884ac egenix-mx-base_2.0.6.orig.tar.gz
<lamont> hrm.... what's wrong with that picture
* lamont prepares to upload 2.0.6ubuntu1-1ubuntu1
<seb128> elmo, around ?
<dholbach> hey seb128 
<seb128> dholbach, nice to see you again
<lamont> mdz: around?
<jp> where have I to go to report a broken package?
<lamont> jp: universe or main?
<jp> universe
<jp> libgnome-cil (gtk-sharp)
* lamont waits for dholbach to take that question] \
<jp> ok =)
<jp> I was trying to get libgnome-cil but: libgnome-cil: depends of: libgda2-1 (>= 1.1.99) but it's not installable
<jp> jeje =)
<lamont> although the question is actually off-topic for here (it's on-topic for #ubuntu)
<jp> yep I know
* lamont wonders why jp asked it here then...
<dholbach> jp: you might ask tseng for mono stuff
<jp> but I knot too it's a error, I know the package is broken 'cause I've installed it before without problems
<jp> dholbach ok thanks =
<jp> dholbach ok thanks =P
<lamont> dholbach: I was thinking more generically - where does one report universe bugs these days?/
<lamont> aha! mdz_ is here
<thom> lamont: malone
<jp> mdz_ libgnome-cil is broken =(
<lamont> jp: my aha was totally unrelated to your item
<jp> oh sorry
<jp> :(
<jp> tseng I was trying to get libgnome-cil but: libgnome-cil: depends of: libgda2-1 (>= 1.1.99) but it's not installable
<jp> xD
<lamont> mdz_: you really here, or just being bouncy-bouncy?
<seb128> people, just wait for breezy breakage stuff
<seb128> that's going to be fixed but not now
<jp> seb128 ok
<thom> seb128: *g*, how's sydney?
<jp> but I tried the hoary libgnome-cil too
<jp> and it gets the same error..
<seb128> crappy weather, out of this that rocks :)
<lamont> seb128: fwiw, I'm hoping to finish filing bugs on all the breezy ftbfs stuff todate
<lamont> sometime before I sleep
<seb128> I mean when you don't get hurt by the sun it rains :p
<jp> !
<tseng> jp: after udu
<thom> seb128: *giggle*
<tseng> jp: breezy is broken for now, we're all dealing
<dholbach> and their local beer (VB) is soooo good
<seb128> lamont, no hurry, I'll not fix any package this week
<jp> so tseng thanks :(
<lamont> seb128: yeah - but I want a reasonably clean slate before I get on the plane tomorrow
<seb128> right
<seb128> I've only 600 bugs on my list
<seb128> some 50 new should not change a lot *g*
<thom> dholbach: i *really* hope you're joking
<Kamion> at least I'm not top of the list of bug assignees ;)
<dholbach> thom: why?
<Kamion> a friend of mine actually likes VB *boggle*
<thom> dholbach: you *like* VB?
<seb128> german guys have no taste at all
<dholbach> thom: you're used to wrong sort of beer ;-)
<bob2> even .auians know vb is bad
<lamont> Kamion: who is? /me bets seb128 (well, ignoring debzilla@, that is)(
<seb128> thom, they are just german, don't be that rude with them
<bob2> I'll have to find some coopers heritage for you
<dholbach> yes, thom, i do :-)
<thom> dholbach: dude, vb is not beer, it's water with some added alcohol
<Kamion> lamont: no idea :)
<crb> Kamion: having to sign Release.gpg sounds like altogether too much work.  Can't we just have the installer ignore signing? ;)
<Kamion> lamont: although I'd bet the same
<Kamion> crb: that's what I said ...
<dholbach> hrm, i'm open for suggestions :-)
<crb> yeah
<Kamion> 01:55 < Kamion> lamont: what to do about it> making apt just get a grip and not care about authentication on CDs is my preferred option :)
<Kamion> it's not the installer's fault
* infinity blinks.
<infinity> Someone likes VB?
<lamont> seb128: gonna just fix gtk-doc for you, since it's trivial
<daniels> infinity: lies.
<lamont> Kamion: agreed
<infinity> daniels : dholbach claims he does.  <points>
<seb128> lamont, thanls
<seb128> thanks even
<dholbach> pitti, mvo, ogra, doko, riddell, amu: back me up :-)
<seb128> can anybody drop e-d-s1.2 from the archive ?
<infinity> dholbach : You mean, there are SEVERAL people who like VB?
<infinity> daniels, thom : Time to fork the company.
<dholbach> sissies :-)
<lamont> seb128: is the old 'jade needs to be before docbook-dsssl in build-deps' thing
<tseng> lamont: nope.
<lamont> tseng: ??
<tseng> eds got pulled in from sid
<tseng> it doesnt belond
<tseng> s/d/g
<lamont> tseng: right... and my comment was on gtk-doc's ftbfs...
<daniels> ok, you guys can all drink VB
<daniels> just don't force it upon us :P
<tseng> lamont: missed that
<tseng> sleep time
<lamont> daniels: and here I was starting to be afraid that they meant visual basic
<dholbach> daniels: what do you suggest? :-)
<infinity> lamont : Almost as vile.
<dholbach> lamont: hahahaah
<lamont> infinity: the so-called language is almost as vile, or the drink is?
<daniels> dholbach: coopers pale ale, james squire porter, james squire golden ale, emersons chocolate stout, coopers heritage
<crb> lamont: thanks for your idea re extras, I think I'll do that
<daniels> pretty much anything else except tooheys new or anything with 'light' in the name
<crb> will cause far less pain down the track
<daniels> oh, an beez neez too
<bob2> boags STRONG ARM
<dholbach> daniels: ahhhh ok - we have the drink store like 10 meters from here :-)
* infinity suggests dholbach and the boys try some FourX...
<schweeb> hi dholbach
<infinity> <snicker>
<daniels> infinity: oh man.
<dholbach> hey schweeb 
<schweeb> see you're planning on getting properly sloshed tonight, hehe
<daniels> bob2: boags original bitter (in the tubes) is actually very good.  garish yellow tubes.
<lamont> infinity: are you doing the modutils merge?
<infinity> lamont : Unless you want it..
<infinity> lamont : it's on my TODO this afternoon.
<lamont> more power to you...
<lamont> otherwise, since it's my package in debian... :-)
<dholbach> what a nice version number: 20040816.BlameClockworkOrange-auto.3-1
<lamont> mind you, 'tis better for someone with a 2.4 kernel to actually do the work... :-)
<infinity> lamont : Oh, if you're upstream, then take it. :)
<lamont> infinity: I have no 2.4 kernel boxen atm
<infinity> lamont : I can't have a 2.4 kernel anymore, since jbailey screwed me. :)
<lamont> infinity: I'll go ahead and take it then
<infinity> lamont : (I run on PowerPC, glibc 2.3.5 on PPC doesn't support linux_threads, no more 2.4 for me)
<lamont> heh
<lamont> I guess I can see if the i386 box I have will actually boot a 2.4 kernel from universe
<infinity> lamont : Just remember to reassign it to yourself, so I don't complete forgot this conversation in 2 hours and do it anyway. :)
<infinity> s/complete/completely/
<infinity> s/forgot/forget/ too.  Gah.  I'm turning Japanese.
<lamont> daniels: you want a bug for l-r-m hating gcc-4.0, or you gonna just have fixed it already./
<lamont> ?
<lamont> infinity: reassigned
* infinity hums the Vapors song, and goes back to work.
* lamont files a lrm bug
<bluefoxicy> can somebody fix my shit?  :/
<bob2> bluefoxicy: no
<bluefoxicy> apparently the code I wrote for managing miniallocs has been producing allocations of negative size
<bluefoxicy> oh
<bluefoxicy> and Xine segfaults on amd64
<bluefoxicy> I used to get around this by disabling the enforcement of PROT_EXEC when I used a pax kernel
<bluefoxicy> (paxctl is nice)
<bluefoxicy> so like, somebody from universe should look into fixing xine-lib
<bluefoxicy> since it's infinitely better with video than the choppy ass gstreamer0.8 crap that jerks and renders poorly and freezes if you seek more than 3 times
<daniels> lamont: i'll take the bug, yo
<bluefoxicy> (i.e. totem)
<bluefoxicy> daniels:  how goes, anything sweet coming up for xorg?
<lamont> daniels: 9984
<schweeb> bluefoxicy: does it work with the debian xine-lib?  cause breezy is synced now, afaik...
<bluefoxicy> schweeb:  not sure.
<bluefoxicy> I need a source of massive income.
<schweeb> that'd be a good place to start
<bluefoxicy> if I had $200 to blow, I'd put out a bounty on like, a driver for my broadcom card in my laptop
<schweeb> if it was fixed in the sync, it's probably not worth your while to complain about it
<daniels> bluefoxicy: i'm really enjoying my one-week holiday :P
<bluefoxicy> schweeb:  i'll try.
<bluefoxicy> daniels:  heh.
<daniels> working on xorg upstream, as it happens
<bluefoxicy> daniels:  heh.  So is there a hardware nvidia dri driver now with hardware 3D and a kernel driver?
* bluefoxicy is getting tired of nvidia's shit.
<bluefoxicy> It even crashes under DEP on Windows on amd64, much less PaX on Linux
<daniels> i have no specs from nvidia.  they maintain the 'open source' driver as well as the proprietary one; i have no insight into them.
<bluefoxicy> daniels:  so put a logic analyzer in the kernel?  :P
<mdz_> lamont: I'm sort of half-here
<lamont> mdz_: is it better for me to have you sync a debian bug, or just file one and add the alias to snarf everything?
<daniels> bluefoxicy: too complex
<daniels> also not worth it for a vendor that will only go more and more closed
<daniels> they're not going to say 'oh well, someone's got it half-figured out, might as well release our driver'
<daniels> bearing in mind that the r300.sf.net guys were working from the r200 source and also have 2d docs for r300
<bluefoxicy> schweeb:  no updated xine-lib in breezy
<bluefoxicy> what's after breezy?  RaunchyRacoon?  FurryFox?
<lamont> cheerful crow, just for Kamion 
<lamont> chipper crow?
<crb> counted crow
<bob2> bitter bear.
<schweeb> curious cat
<infinity> brilliant bikeshed
<schweeb> I hate cats though, I might have to skip a release if we named it something like that :p
<infinity> Sure, a bikeshed isn't an animal, but I think it makes a statement. :)
<schweeb> hrm
<bluefoxicy> I like kitties
<schweeb> I just had a lightbulb turn on
* bluefoxicy likes furry things
<schweeb> we have the porn backgrounds, why not have porn release names :P
<bluefoxicy> the backgrounds should be furries :p
<schweeb> "raunchy randi" or something hehe
<bluefoxicy> actually
* bluefoxicy knows tons of furry artists
<schweeb> that's disturbing.
<bluefoxicy> maybe I can get some to sketch me backgrounds
<bluefoxicy> and I can color them
<bluefoxicy> schweeb:  there's more disturbing things.
<bob2> not many
<bluefoxicy> hey you're the one with the distro named all after personified animals
* dholbach liked SneezySnail a lot
<schweeb> I liked grumpy groundhog :)
<schweeb> I'm a grumpy person myself
<schweeb> so it would have fit quite well
<dholbach> schweeb: oh no... you're not
<schweeb> dholbach: oh, I am, with stupid people.  Luckily most of the people around here aren't so. But the few who are know who they are.... /me glares at them
<bluefoxicy> i'm constantly surrounded by stupidity.
<bluefoxicy> I work in retail.
<schweeb> I've got you beat, I work in the financial industry.
<schweeb> (for one more week, at least)
<HrdwrBoB> ha.
<HrdwrBoB> I work in government.
<schweeb> WINNER
<HrdwrBoB> :)
<schweeb> although, financial stuff has to be a close second ;)
<schweeb> dholbach: passed my bg check and everything, start my new job next friday!
<dholbach> schweeb: woohoo :-)
<dholbach> ogra: done
<ogra> dholbach, great :)
<bluefoxicy> http://rafb.net/paste/results/lcaHUV32.html  :/
<bluefoxicy> debugging data from my allocator, I'm making negative allocations.
<lamont> bob2: the collective noun for crows is 'murder'
<A_Alam> can some please help me, where i can add my langauge to ubuntu5.x?
<pitti> A_Alam: you mean desktop translations?
<pitti> A_Alam: the easiest method is to just start to translate applications on Rosetta
<A_Alam> pitti, for liveCD, i want to boot in my lang
<pitti> A_Alam: -> #ubuntu, please
<A_Alam> desktop i m using Rosetta
<A_Alam> pitti, thanks
<pitti> A_Alam: can you please file a bug against debian-installer about adding Punjabi to the list of langs?
<A_Alam> k,
<pitti> ajmitch: ping
<pitti> tseng: ping
<pitti> Hi fabbione 
<pitti> fabbione: don't mind going to sleep?
<dholbach> see you later
<fabbione> morning
* Mithrandir kicks perl in the nuts
<schweeb> guess it's about time for me to go to bed, fabbione's up :)
<Mithrandir> heh :P
<schweeb> <3 perl though
<fabbione> eheh
<ogra> hey fabbione 
<Mithrandir> it's just so broken; perl includes a config.h file.
<ogra> heh
<fabbione> hey ogra
<lamont> daniels: I tossed 9997 at you, hope you don't mind... :))
<daniels> lamont: libxss-dev, yo
<fabbione> lamont: did you start filing FTBFS bugs around?
<infinity> fabbione : Yes, there are a few.
<lamont> Bug 10000 has been added to the database
<lamont> fabbione: yes
<fabbione> infinity: i have a few tons on sparc :)
<fabbione> lamont: if you have a list of packages, it would be a good idea to compare them with the sparcc buildd "needsreallove" mailbox
<fabbione> lamont: apparently gcc-4 is not behaving properly on all arches
<fabbione> not in the same way at least
<lamont> fabbione: among the fun ones... g77-3.4 is in universe, but g77 depends on it.  libtiffxx0 is in universe, but libtiff4 depends on it...
<lamont> etc.
<fabbione> lamont: yes.. that's why there is also a "builddep" forlder :)
* lamont ponders whether or not it's valid for a package to require the existance of a working resolver in the chroot in order to build
<lamont> or rather, whether or not it's legal to require that 'localhost' resolve.
<fabbione> hmm that should always be resolvable via /etc/hosts
<lamont> fabbione: not when there's no /etc/hosts in the chroot (hasn't been one yet... finally got a failure)
<lamont> fabbione: hence I have to decide if I believe that it's really something that belongs in a minimal chroot, or if it's a valid FTBFS...
<fabbione> what pkg is that?
<lamont> with the exception of libapache2-mod-perl2, ipsec-tools, and iptraf, I'm done with my bonafide ftbfs's
<lamont>  libapache2-mod-perl2
<fabbione> hmm i have /etc/hosts and that's bootstrapping the chroot with --variant=buildd
<fabbione> meh no
<fabbione> but i have a resolv.conf
<lamont> right
<fabbione> and a dns that resolvs all possible combination of localhost :)
<lamont> not so in the data center.. :-)
<fabbione> my dc > london dc 
<fabbione> :P
<Mithrandir> daniels: why does x drop .pc files in usr/X11R6/lib/pkgconfig/ ?
<daniels> Mithrandir: because ProjectRoot is /usr/X11R6, and the monolithic tree is crap
<daniels> you won't have to wait long for those to disappear; don't worry
<Mithrandir> daniels: make the directory a symlink or something.
<Mithrandir> in the build
<fabbione> daniels: have you decided to kill X11R6 for breezy?
<Mithrandir> I'd like to get pkgconfig in Debian and Ubuntu in sync
<daniels> fabbione: yes
<daniels> Mithrandir: ARGH M YEYES
<daniels> Mithrandir: just be patient and /usr/X11R6/lib will be a symlink
<daniels> and you can kill that nasty hack
<fabbione> daniels:_ just X11R6 .
<fabbione> everything will come up of one layer and match FHS
<fabbione> :)
<Mithrandir> daniels: it's not a nasty hack any more, it's just annoying to not being able to get elmo to sync.
<daniels> Mithrandir: yeah
<daniels> fabbione: heh :) somet hings are moving though, e.g. fonts to /usr/share
<daniels> fabbione: so easier to make more fine-grained symlinks
<infinity> lamont : It's certainly valid for a package to spawn a temporary daemon to do loopback selftests during build (IMO), so if localhost can't resolve, are you going to tell them to use 127.0.0.1?...
<ajmitch> pitti: pong
<pitti> ajmitch: you are doing SELinux stuff? I'm on the list of people for the SELinux BoF, but I have no clue about the technical details of SELinux
<pitti> ajmitch: I do grsecurity on my machines...
<pitti> ajmitch: can you lead the BoF?
<ajmitch> yes, I am..
<pitti> ajmitch: or tseng?
<ajmitch> yeah, I can probably do that
<pitti> ajmitch: would be cool; can you put some ideas on the BoF page?
<pitti> ajmitch: I will take a look at the page tomorrow if there is something at it, and do some comments maybre
<ajmitch> sure, I'll try & do that over the next couple of days before I leave, not much time right now :)
<lamont> infinity: that's the question of the day... it should probably resolve..
<lamont> but I want to sleep on it.
<Unfrgiven> hi all. im not a ubuntu developer but am keen to get involved in linux development work. i am going to be at UDU next week as a way to find out how to get involved. does anyone have any suggestions as to what i can do in the meanwhile (myself). my strengths lie in C, C++ and perl. I've been a debian user for about 3+ years now.
<infinity> lamont : We removed a test from php4's configure that tried to resolve localhost "just in case", but I'd be more inclined to say it should be a buildd requirement anyway.
<Mithrandir> Unfrgiven: if you want to maintain packages, the MOTU (Masters of The Universe) team is probably for you.
<thom> Unfrgiven: probably best of asking that kind of question in #ubuntu-love or #ubuntu-motu
<Unfrgiven> Mithrandir: yeah i'd very much be interested in package maintenance
<thom> as Mithrandir says, you really need to be working with MOTU
<Unfrgiven> thom: thanks, i'll check that out. apologies for intruding in the wrong channel.
<Mithrandir> Unfrgiven: no problem.  There's also a fair amount of stuff on the wiki
<crimsun> Unfrgiven: pleae see wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU
<crimsun> please^
<Diablo-D3> hey all
<Diablo-D3> I was thinking
<Diablo-D3> ubuntu needs a package called ubuntu
<Diablo-D3> that you can just apt-get, and it installs everything that a default install of ubuntu has
<Mithrandir> Diablo-D3: you mean ubuntu-desktop?
<crimsun> (or kubuntu-desktop for kubuntu)
<Diablo-D3> er
<Diablo-D3> woah
<Diablo-D3> that may be what I want
<Diablo-D3> but does it literally include everything?
<Diablo-D3> including things that arnt desktop related?
<infinity> A default ubuntu installation is pretty desktop oriented.
<Mithrandir> it depends on ubuntu-base and so on
<Diablo-D3> Ooh
<Diablo-D3> thats exactly what I'm looking for then
<infinity> (mainly cause the server installation doesn't have much of anything, because no two server admins can ever agree on what they think the "default" packages should be)
<Diablo-D3> infinity: the default server installation should be debian.
<Diablo-D3> ie, minimalistic as possible
<Diablo-D3> but still possible to boot and support most hardware
<Diablo-D3> and not suck that bad
<Diablo-D3> hrm, question
<Diablo-D3> why does it depend on x-window-system-core and not x-window-system?
<infinity> Because x-window-system pulls in default window managers and session managers and such that people don't want.
<lamont> infinity: that, and installing daemons that only listen on 127.0.0.1 by default is kinda painful for the admins... hence the proposal to remove all MTA's from ubuntu-base
<infinity> (like twm and zdm and whatnot)
<infinity> lamont : Yeah, agreed.
<Diablo-D3> ahh
<infinity> s/zdm/xdm/
<Diablo-D3> doesnt a linux system require an MTA?
<lamont> Diablo-D3: the server install is ubuntu-base
<lamont> Diablo-D3: no..  LSB does, but you can require that they install a package for conformance
<Diablo-D3> hrm
* Diablo-D3 seriously cant imagine a life without a mta
<infinity> *My* systems all require an MTA of some sort, but the average end-user system certainly doesn't.
<lamont> there are better ways to get root mail to where the end-user will notice it... (see update notifier for example)
<Diablo-D3> then again I use fetchmail and procmail ;)
<infinity> How often does my mom mail my dad on the local machine?
<lamont> infinity: yes
<Diablo-D3> gimp-python: Depends: python (< 2.4) but 2.4.1-0ubuntu2 is to be installed
<Diablo-D3> wtf
<lamont> Diablo-D3: can't imagine it either... but really it's life without an MUA that you can't really imagine, esp if you're an enduser
<lamont> Diablo-D3: if that's a pure ubuntu repository, then there's a little bug... hoary or breezy?
<Diablo-D3> oh gar!
<Diablo-D3> thats my fault
<lamont> mix-n-match is _BAD_
* Diablo-D3 's gimp-python is nwer than whats in ubuntu
<lamont> and my gimp-python has python (<< 2.5), python (>= 2.4)
<lamont> heh
<lamont> apt_preferences(5) is your friend for crossgrading sid->ubuntu
<Diablo-D3> crossgrading?
<lamont> if you decide to take a debian system to ubuntu, after upstream-version-freeze, you can't really call it an upgrade, since you wind up down-reving some packages
<lamont> neither is it a downgrade.
<lamont> therefore, it's a crossgrade
<Diablo-D3> ahh
<lamont> and therein lies some understanding of why it's not an officially supported way of getting ubuntu on your machine...
<Diablo-D3> I'm used to dealing with broken stuff
<Diablo-D3> dealing with ->ubuntu is pretty easy
<lamont> yeah - my crossgrade trick is to pin ubuntu at somewhere around 1600, and let apt have its way
<Diablo-D3> yow 224 megs
<lamont> for what?  sid->hoary?  sounds about right
<lamont> (new kernel, X, gnome, for starters...)
<infinity> (anything 1001 and over is high enough to force downgrades)
<Diablo-D3> and I'm going to have to play the deboprhan game too probably
<infinity> lamont : You just like to make sure apt got the point, I take it? :)
<Diablo-D3> yeah, I dont even have gnome installed atm
<lamont> last time I did it, I pinned it high, did the apt-get dist-upgrade, and then dumped the package list and compared it to the Packages file, to see what things I had installed that weren't from ubuntu-main... etc, etc.
<lamont> infinity: yeah :-)
<lamont> infinity: truthfully, couldn't remember off the cuff if it was {>,>=}{1000,1500}
<lamont> but 1600 meets all of those options. :-)
<Diablo-D3> hrm
<infinity> Heh.
<Diablo-D3> do any applications actually use mDNS?
* lamont shrugs
* lamont notes that we're pretty off-topic for #ubuntu-devel
<Diablo-D3> I'm only asking because I didnt see it on the list
<infinity> I really wish people would stop switching patch systems on a whim.
<lamont> infinity: from what to what, I wonder?
<infinity> In this case, simple-patchsys to dpatch, including moving a bunch of files around.
<infinity> Which means a completely buggered merge attempt by MOM (whou THOUGHT she got it mostly right, that's the scary part)
<infinity> s/whou/who/
<infinity> The really great part of this diff is the 3.2 megs for a uuencoded binary MOM is trying to move back to where she thinks it should live. :)
<Diablo-D3> infinity: you mean scm?
* Diablo-D3 must be lagging
<Diablo-D3> --- Ping reply from infinity : 63.11 second(s)
* daniels notes that this channel is for Ubuntu development.
<ogra> daniels, hmm.... reading up it looks like #ubuntu-crossgrade
<Diablo-D3> hrm, I'm trying to find the policy on trying to become an ubuntu maintainer
<daniels> Diablo-D3: it's on the wiki,.
<Diablo-D3> is it still like trying to become a debian one?
<ogra> Diablo-D3, see the MOTU pages on the wiki
* Diablo-D3 looks
<lamont> Diablo-D3: easier and harder.
<Diablo-D3> well, is the policy on pgp keys still retarded?
<lamont> Diablo-D3: see the wiki pages
* Diablo-D3 has a slow connection
<Diablo-D3> so wait a second =P
<lamont> (frankly, can't remember)
<Diablo-D3> ahah, masters of the universe
* lamont would like beat whoever thought it would be good for gcc-4.0 to hijack user space names.  (specifically 'log' and 'errors')
<Diablo-D3> looks like a difficult process
<lamont> Diablo-D3: yeah, but actually getting involved in making things happen is trivial.
<Diablo-D3> thats what the debian project said
<lamont> it's what I've witnessed here
<Diablo-D3> well, hopefully you're right
<lamont> Diablo-D3: ask ogra
<Diablo-D3> I never bothered actually helping the debian project because they are so retarded about how stuff should work
<daniels> Diablo-D3: please a) stop being a twat ('well, is the policy on pgp keys still retarded?'), and b) move this off-topic discussion out of #ubuntu-devel.
<daniels> anti-debian rants are not on topic here.
* mode/#ubuntu-devel [+o daniels]  by ChanServ
<Diablo-D3> lamont: so hopefully the ubuntu community is more friendly.
<daniels> calling debian 'retarded' is not one way to win that friendship and respect.
<lamont> Diablo-D3: I've found both communities to be quite friendly, but it's really an off-topic item
<Diablo-D3> yeah, we really need an offtopic channel for #ubuntu-devel
<daniels> #ubuntu-offtopic.
* Diablo-D3 was hoping someone would volunteer to make one
<daniels> it's already there.
<Kamion> lamont: log() is specified by C99
<Kamion> erm, and POSIX?
<Kamion> you can -fno-builtin-log or similar though
* ogra wonders how to get a priorityassigned to his BOF
<ogra> who sets it ? mdz ?
<lamont> Kamion: nah, I'll just rename the variable
<lamont> I bet 'errors' is defined in there somewhere too
<fabbione> lamont: can you take a look at gtk+2.0 situation on the buildds?
<fabbione> lamont: for some reasons sparc managed to build it...
<fabbione> lamont: all the other arches are claiming a missing Build-Dep ?
<Kamion> 'errors' is not in C99; I don't know what that's about
<lamont> fabbione: you have a polluted chroot
<lamont>   libtiff4-dev: Depends: libtiffxx0 (= 3.7.2-2) but it is not installable
<lamont> libtiffxx0 is in universe, and hence libtiff4-dev is uninstallabkle
<lamont> unless you have universe in sources.list, which you shouldn't when building main packages
<lamont> or maybe you haven't successfully built libtiff4-dev yet...
<fabbione> lamont: the chroot is cleaned daily...
<fabbione> and i split main/universe. so it is probably the libtiff4
<lamont> fabbione: I don't doubt you - was just rattling off the possibilities
<Mithrandir> fabbione: the new kernel will have inotify?
<lamont> ogra: not sure who the final authority is on priorities, but mdz would certainly know...
<fabbione> tiff:
<fabbione>   Package             : tiff
<fabbione>   Version             : 3.7.2-2
<fabbione>   State               : Installed
<fabbione>   Installed-Version   : 3.7.2-2
<fabbione> ARGH
<fabbione> sorry for the flood
<lamont> hehe
<fabbione> Mithrandir: yes.
<fabbione> Mithrandir: the new one is working
<Mithrandir> fabbione: any ETA? :)
<fabbione> Mithrandir: as soon as we can upload... 
<lamont> fabbione: and does libtiff4-dev Depend: libtiffxx0?
<lamont> and if so, where is libtiffxx0?
<fabbione> lamont: checking...
<fabbione> libtiffxx0 (= 3.7.2-2)
<fabbione> Source: tiff
<fabbione> ????
* fabbione scratches his head
<fabbione> lamont: for what i can see libtiffxx0 comes out of tiff
<fabbione> so given that you build tiff, you have both...
<lamont> fabbione: right.  but libtiffxx0 is in UNIVERSE, not MAIN.
<lamont> and if you can install libtiff4-dev, then you have it in MAIN
<fabbione> lamont: not for me...
<fabbione> it took the package from the incoming cache 
<lamont> ==universe
<fabbione> since sparc.u.c isn't updated regularly, i need to rely on a  local cache
<fabbione> so that would explain the situation
<lamont> yes
<lamont> mind you, the correct fix is probably to promote libtiffxx0
<fabbione> i think there is no other option
<fabbione> otherwise 3/4 of main is stalled
* fabbione starts to believe that all this sparc buildd affair is bringing up interesting aspects of main/universe
<lamont> fabbione: the alternative is to eliminate the dependency
<lamont> which may or may not be a good idea, of course... :)
<fabbione> lamont: well, but if they depend on eachother, there might be a reason :)
<fabbione> yeah exactly
<fabbione> i would say to promote it
<fabbione> it's just a very simple lib
<fabbione> nothing fancy in it
<lamont> yeah - I haven't looked.
<lamont> fabbione: and once ports.u.c is in place, sparc should update cleanly and regularly
<fabbione> lamont: yes, i am aware of it
<fabbione> but i can't do otherwise atm
<fabbione> i used to have a cache of 2 hours, that was pretty safe
<fabbione> build -> upload -> cache -> rsync -> kill cache
<fabbione> so the chroot was exposed only for 2 hours on pks in transit to archive
* fabbione hopes elmo will find the time to bring up ports soon
<lamont> Kamion: modutils_2.4.27.0-2ubuntu1 uploaded, just for yuou
<fabbione> lamont: we need to hug elmo really hard at UDU to get ports up.. and shell out some money for beer ;)
<lamont> wow.  1 more hour and ia64 might have a gcc-4.0 :)
<lamont> fabbione: yes.  must be very nice to him at  UDU....
<lamont> not sure about the beer angle, though... don't want him setting it up while he's intoxicated...
<fabbione> lamont: ehhe i didn't even jump in his bed in London :)
<lamont> fabbione: TMI
<lamont> :-)
<fabbione> ehe
<fabbione> Kamion, mdz_: can we promote libtiffxx0 to main please?
<Kamion> lamont: thanks, will look at that when I come to fix busybox-cvs - hopefully fairly soon
<lamont> heh.. someone needs to get them more NAT IP's at LCA - or teach OPN about them
* lamont heads for bed.
<fabbione> night lamont
<fabbione> jbailey: i think i found the bug in glibc about ipv4 being preferred over ipv6
<fabbione> jbailey: i am going to do a test build pretty soon
<jbailey> fabbione: Cool.
<jbailey> Is it something caused by a local patch, or somethign in upstream?
<fabbione> upstream
<infinity> glibc doesn't have bugs, fabbione.  It's all in your head.
<jbailey> 'kay. =(  MEans I'll have to figure out why it changed.
<infinity> That's what jbailey keeps telling me.
<mjg59> fabbione: your 2.6.12 seems to have dropped the patch to i810 drm
<mjg59> i915 rather, sorry
<fabbione> mjg59: i dropped everything that was named stolen-from-upstream*
<fabbione> mjg59: for .12 they should find their way to upstream
<mjg59> fabbione: hm. The one I sent you didn't come from upstream.
<mjg59> It was a single line patch that changed the version number in the driver
<fabbione> mjg59: let me check...
<fabbione> mjg59: right.. i am readding it
<fabbione> mjg59: dunno why i thought it was coming from upstream
<mjg59> No problem
<fabbione> Nodes: 3
<fabbione> Expected_votes: 3
<fabbione> Total_votes: 3
<fabbione> YAY
<fabbione> 3 nodes cluster!
<fabbione> mjg59: done...
<mdz_> fabbione: does it have any dependencies which are not in main?
<mdz_> doesn't seem to
<mdz_> fabbione: done
<fabbione> mdz_: thanks
<elmo> whoever's trying to use tilde's in version, stop it
<Mithrandir> I thought they were supported now?
<Diablo-D3> elmo: eww
<Mithrandir> (yes, I'm trying to)
<Diablo-D3> why would anyone want a tilde in a version?
<Mithrandir> Diablo-D3: because it means less-than
<elmo> Mithrandir: no, they aren't
<Diablo-D3> erm, ~ means "roughly" in mathspeek.
<Diablo-D3> < is less than.
<Mithrandir> Diablo-D3: read the dpkg source code.
<Diablo-D3> ... please tell me dpkg didnt rewrite the 2000 year old language of math
<d3vic3> O.o
<Mithrandir> Diablo-D3: math doesn't have a concept of sorting.  
<Mithrandir> elmo: when will they be?
<infinity> elmo : Are we still lacking support in some tools, or is it just a question of maintinainig the woody upgrade path for a while longer?
<Diablo-D3> Mithrandir: meh =/
<mdz_> Kamion: there are more debbugs bugs breaking debzilla
<Kamion> elmo: please sync parted 1.6.21-1 from unstable; OK to overwrite 1.6.20-0.exp.2ubuntu2
<Kamion> mdz_: I mentioned the problem to Don Armstrong, who did most of that patch; in the meantime, please mail me bug numbers and I'll fix them
<elmo> Mithrandir: when you figure out how sucky a duck is as a logo
<elmo> infinity: katie needs fixed
<elmo> Kamion: done
<Kamion> ta
<thom> infinity: see the three newly released firefox vulns? :/
<Mithrandir> elmo: blah. :P
<infinity> thom : New, as in post-1.0.3?
<thom> as in fixed in 1.0.3
<thom> and just unembargoed
<infinity> Yeah, I'll do all the 1.0.3 stuff later.
<thom> infinity: 9926 through 9928
<infinity> One pre-1.0.3 upload, one post-1.0.3.. Unless they're simple.
<thom> i'm just gonna do hoary
<infinity> Go ahead and do hoary, please. :)
<infinity> I've been busy with, well, everything, so I'd rather get some sort of packages uploaded than nothing at all.
<infinity> And I intend to force some people at UDU to test the packages before we do an advisory, since they stand a high chance of breaking.
<thom> nods
<jsgotangco> waa
<jsgotangco> ogra, hi
* mode/#ubuntu-devel [+b *!*diablo-d3@65.99.191.*]  by daniels
* Diablo-D3 was kicked off #ubuntu-devel by daniels (wildly offtopic, please go somewhere else)
<ogra> jsgotangco, hey
<infinity> daniels : Nice reaction time.
<jsgotangco> im so tired already i gotta take a day off before i fly off
<daniels> my battery was low enough that it refused to resume, given that I'd likely run out of power in a few seconds
* mode/#ubuntu-devel [-o daniels]  by daniels
* infinity groans as he gets spammed by debzilla.
<jsgotangco> ok guys bye bye i might not be online by tommorow see you in UDU
<zyga> hello
<astharot> giorno
<pitti> Hellas!
<ogra> prost
<fabbione> hey
<d3vic3> fabbione, 
<d3vic3> fabbione: aren't u suppose to be flying already ?
<fabbione> no
<fabbione> i will leave saturday morning
<d3vic3> oh ok 
<tseng> pitti: yep i only know selinux basics, would be happier with ajmitch running
<pitti> tseng: Hi! ajmitch already agreed to do this more or less :)
<tseng> great :)
<fabbione> humpf 2.6.12rc3 is out
* fabbione addes the ubercrack level at his kernel build tree
<pitti> hui
<fabbione> and gcc-4.0.0 is out
<fabbione> where is doko when we need him?=
<pitti> fabbione: he just left to open a bottle of Whiskey
<fabbione> pitti: and upload after or during the bottle :)
<pitti> fabbione: I'm afraid we shouldn't allow him to upload a new gcc after that
<fabbione> nah
<pitti> gggcccc-44.0
<d3vic3> heh
<fabbione> ahha
<pitti> fabbione: btw, boring week, no new kernel dildos
<pitti> fabbione: you already must felt underloved by now
<fabbione> pitti: better.. i am busy enough already
* fabbione branches 2.6.11.90 to start rc3
<fabbione> doko put down the bottle of whisky
<fabbione> gcc-4.0.0 is out
<fabbione> ETA for the upload? :P
<pitti> fabbione: the upload alone will take ~ 3 days from here
<doko> fabbione: bake your rc3 kernel first ;-P 
* pitti wants to see 2.6.12 FTBFS with gcc 4
<pitti> and watch the fight
* pitti fetches the popcorn
<ogra> fabbione, hee hasch noh boddl ahnymohr
<fabbione> doko: dude.. rc3 is already building :)
<fabbione> pitti: no no.. gcc-3.3 for the kernel...
<ogra> fabbione, fix the kernel ;)
<pitti> fabbione: but - it will _work_ with gcc 3.3 - where's the fun?
* doko prefers the mais more than popcorn as a weapon
<fabbione> ogra: shut up dude :)
<fabbione> pitti: there is no fun atm...
<ogra> :)
<fabbione> the fun will come after we get .12 out
<fabbione> than we will switch compiler
<tseng> mmmm, ftbfs
<fabbione> uhuhu 12rc3 is already building :)
<fabbione> doko: where is gcc? :P
<d3vic3> doko: MOVE AWAY FROM THE WHISKY BOTTLE ! :P  
<Treenaks> fabbione: I had a request from a Dutch user for a preview of the .12 kernel -- his ICH6 Intel on-board sound stuff didn't work in .10
<fabbione> Treenaks: no preview.. sorry. there are still a few problems that need to be solved before i can push .21 in the archive
<Treenaks> fabbione: ok
<fabbione> and i really won't be able to help him if the system will mess up
<fabbione> also.. .12 will be for breezy
<fabbione> it needs already too much hacking to go in hoary
<Treenaks> fabbione: yes of course
<Treenaks> fabbione: I asked him to upgrade already, and he installed the meta-packages.. so it should be OK once you declare it final
<fabbione> if he is on breezy yes
<fabbione> it will be final when i will push the big red button on my desk with written "Deploy luser automatic system destroier"
<Treenaks> cool, where do I get those?
<fabbione> Treenaks: the same day you will get baz commit rights on kernel/libc6/gcc/xorg
<fabbione> or grub
<Treenaks> cool
<jbailey> lamont: You around?
<fabbione> hey jbailey 
<jbailey> Heya Fabio!
<lamont> jbailey: morning
<adamh> php4 doesn't seem to be compiled with the zip extension, and I can't find any packages that provide it. Is my only option to compile from source?
<leonel> hello !  firefox1.0.3  was released  is there any patch for hoary's firefox 1.0.2 to fix the bugs 1.0.3 fixed ?
<ups> leonel, i'm not a dev, but i think most of the patches are already in ubuntu's firefox
<trygvebw> Would it be an idea to forward "su" to "sudo -i"?
<uniq> trygvebw: feel free to make your own alias. :)
<trygvebw> uniq: Of course :) but i was thinking that it maybe was an idea to include one as standard in Ubuntu?
<Burgundavia> no
<Burgundavia> too confusing
<uniq> agreed.
<Burgundavia> as that is not expected behaviour
<Burgundavia> those that know about su need to use it
<Burgundavia> not be told about sudo
<uniq> would be like making an alias of 'vi' to nano.. or something.
<Burgundavia> anyway, the great unwashed used gksudo or kdesu
<Burgundavia> and should never see the command line
<trygvebw> Well, it's more friendly to newbies, and it *would* do the same thing as "su" without parameters...
<Burgundavia> trygvebw, did you read what I just said?
<trygvebw> Burgundavia, yes i did
<uniq> messing with coreutils is bad.
<Burgundavia> trygvebw, then you will know why it is bad
<trygvebw> Well... Who need the "su" tool in the standard configuration?
<uniq> need/want/expect it to be there.. 
<uniq> I expect it to be there.. 
<uniq> I don't expect su to start sudo in any way.
<Burgundavia> those that know about su need to use it, not be told about sudo
<trygvebw> Well, "sudo -i" will do exactly (nearly) the same thing as "sudo -i"
<trygvebw> Without telling anybody that it *is* "sudo"
<uniq> still a bad idea. it's like makiing 'vi' a alias to nano, you can still edit your files.. 
<uniq> .. but i hate nano :)
<trygvebw> There is a big difference, "vi" works, but "su" doesn't.
<uniq> su works if you enable the root account.
<trygvebw> Usually people who know show to activate root also knows how to remove the alias.
<uniq> the essential here is as burgundavia said "expected behaviour".. 
<trygvebw> And like i said, the behavior of "sudo -i" and "su" is exactly the same...
<Burgundavia> trygvebw, uh, no
<uniq> without arguments.. yes.
<trygvebw> yes
<uniq> or well.
<uniq> no.
<uniq> nearly.. 
<uniq> not enought.
<trygvebw> Most people who use arguments knows how to remove the alias.
<uniq> if they know it's there.. 
<Burgundavia> if you type in su
<Burgundavia> you get a password prompt
<Burgundavia> I just did
<trygvebw> You also do with "sudo -i
<trygvebw> "
<Burgundavia> but the difference is what password they are looking for
<Burgundavia> su is looking for roots
<uniq> trygvebw: try 'sudo -i -s /bin/zsh'
<Burgundavia> sudo -i is looking for mine
<trygvebw> uniq: Doesn't work
<uniq> I know.
<trygvebw> Burgundavia, well, we could print a warning...
<uniq> su -s /bin/zsh does.
<trygvebw> uniq: <trygvebw> Most people who use arguments knows how to remove the alias.
<trygvebw> Burgundavia, well, we could print a warning...
<Burgundavia> trygvebw, why not just do what is normal"?
<uniq> :)
<Burgundavia> the only people who need su, actually want su
<trygvebw> Because "su" -> "sudo -i" is more newbie friendly...
<uniq> no, it's just confusing.
<Burgundavia> trygvebw, please understand, the great unwashed is never going to use su
<trygvebw> Burgundavia, well, people are instructed (irc, forums) to do special command line things including "su". They type "su", and can't get further.
<Burgundavia> trygvebw, they shouldn
<Burgundavia> t
<Burgundavia> be
<trygvebw> Why?
<Burgundavia> Ubuntu uses sudo
<Burgundavia> people should follow the defaults
<Burgundavia> unless they really know better
<trygvebw> What if users of other distros instruct them?
<uniq> .. and then they know how to enable the root account.. 
<trygvebw> ^
<Burgundavia> that is not really an issue we can deal with, and your "fix" won't help
<trygvebw> Well...
<trygvebw> Ok :)
<zyga> hello
<uniq> hi.
<zyga> bluefoxicy: ping
<bluefoxicy> hi
<bluefoxicy> zyga: http://rafb.net/paste/results/lcaHUV32.html
<zyga> bluefoxicy: looking :-)
<zyga> BTW: what's the naming cheme?
<bluefoxicy> ?
<zyga> nevermind
<zyga> !
<zyga> how did you resolve malloc?
<zyga> (the real malloc)
<zyga> I had constant problems with real programs
<bluefoxicy> uh
<bluefoxicy> I didn't find glibc's malloc
<bluefoxicy> I just have my own implementation.
<bluefoxicy> hence the infinite loop and negative size allocations.
<zyga> so real_malloc is your custom right?
<bluefoxicy> yeah
<zyga> ok
<zyga> I had strange results yesterday
<bluefoxicy> once_malloc() has initializers
<bluefoxicy> and a pthread_once() call which is expensive as hell
<zyga> I could not repeat the behaviour of your first test
<bluefoxicy> so it switches a pointer to real_malloc()
<bluefoxicy> so the first (few?) malloc() calls may be once_malloc(), the following become real_malloc()
<zyga> the one where one allocation was holding memory back
<zyga> (now it always holds the memory back, even after it's released)
<zyga> but I've updated to breezy so that could be relevant
<bluefoxicy> o.O
<bluefoxicy> now it holds memory even after dropping the heap holder in msztest?
<zyga> yes
<bluefoxicy> what the ass?
<zyga> I'm currently ignoring thread safty 
<bluefoxicy> it should drop from like 100 megs to 2 megs
<zyga> :>
<zyga> it does after the process dies
* bluefoxicy is thread safe in the most asinine way possible
<zyga> I'm going to test it more excessively today
<zyga> I hope malloc still suxx ;] 
<bluefoxicy> haha
<zyga> otherwise we d'be out of hobby :>
<bluefoxicy> I may be out of a job soon
<zyga> s/we d'/we'd /
<bluefoxicy> I fix computers, but my performance is rated by how I sell services
<zyga> what do you sell?
<bluefoxicy> so like, the sales guys sell computers and are supposed to give us the customers so we sell them services
<bluefoxicy> except
<bluefoxicy> the sales guys bring me customers that want a computer and 10 billion services
<bluefoxicy> so I do the services
<Amaranth> You work at Besy Buy?
<bluefoxicy> but I dont sell them.
<bluefoxicy> Amaranth:  yes
<bluefoxicy> it's weird though.
<bluefoxicy> We have to be "Bringing in money" but we're NOT commissioned.
* zyga -> shower
<zyga> bbl
<bluefoxicy> you don't make more because you sell more; but you lose your job if you don't make the company any money
<Amaranth> You're one of those "GeekSquad" guys?
<bluefoxicy> but people are like "OMFG CHECK IT I SOLDS $10GAZILION"
<bluefoxicy> Amaranth:  yep
<Amaranth> Good to know some of them actaully have a clue...
<bluefoxicy> Amaranth:  actualyl I have like 10000 new services we could supply but don't
<bluefoxicy> most involving open source software because you don't need a commercial license or NDA to use it.
<bluefoxicy> I mean we could put a fucking customized firefox on CD and sell it for $20
<Amaranth> It seems like the ones at the Best Buy here know how to replace HDs, replace RAM, and reinstall Windows. Other than that they try to sell you a new computer.
<bluefoxicy> as long as the XPI stuff used to install firefox was with it, and the source code to firefox was available (mozilla.org)
<bluefoxicy> Amaranth:  oh yes
<bluefoxicy> Amaranth:  I'll spend all day trying to fix a broken computer to avoid letting them reinstall the OS
<bluefoxicy> because I want to fix the shit
<Burgundavia> bluefoxicy, I just left a repair shop like that
<Burgundavia> and I was gald
<bluefoxicy> Burgundavia:  If i had thec apital I'd start my own linux-centric business
<Burgundavia> bluefoxicy, quit while you are ahead
<Amaranth> I did that when I was doing to tech work. I'd waste 5 hours running virus scanners and spyware tools instead of spending an hour reinstalling windows.
<bluefoxicy> Burgundavia:  I need money BADLY
<Amaranth> s/to//
<Burgundavia> hmm
<bluefoxicy> my bank accounts are dry and my insurance is due the 29th
<Amaranth> Because if you even changed the user's background they'd freak.
<Burgundavia> I worked for a small company
<Burgundavia> they were a little more sane
<Amaranth> btw, when you do have to reinstall windows get it all setup then create an XP restore point
<Amaranth> if they bring it in again just restore to that point
<bluefoxicy> Burgundavia:  I want to talk to my district manager about getting permission to market and perform a few new services, the most basic being one linux centric one where we take an old PC they have that they want to junk and install Linux on it for a very low fee (OS installation is like $200 what the fuck?)
<bluefoxicy> actually I think we could get away with charging $100
<zyga> back
<Burgundavia> indeed
<bluefoxicy> because it's not like "You installed Windows"
<bluefoxicy> it's like
<Burgundavia> we did few suse servers
<zyga> bluefoxicy: can your allocator handle real world stuff?
<bluefoxicy> "You installed Linux AND Gnome AND an office suite AND some games AND a bunch of shit AND media players AND system tools!"
<bluefoxicy> that's like, $500 worth of work
<zyga> bluefoxicy: (like could you run firefox with it)
<bluefoxicy> a ton of software packages
<Burgundavia> you installed an OS, not just windows
<bluefoxicy> zyga:  it dies running ls
<zyga> bluefoxicy: mine too
<bluefoxicy> zyga:  it gets 3 heaps in and dies.
<zyga> bluefoxicy: did you check what malloc actually does?
<bluefoxicy> (my heaps hold 4M of allocs)
<Amaranth> Burgundavia: No, you installed a distro. :)
<bluefoxicy> zyga:  no :)
<zyga> bluefoxicy: apart from malloc and friends there's valloc and a couple of other quirky things
<bluefoxicy> Burgundavia:  Well, I should talk to my district manager about it.
<zyga> bluefoxicy: also, do you run any logging stuff?
<bluefoxicy> Linux is infinite stock because it's free, downloadable, burnable
<zyga> bluefoxicy: any *printf
<Amaranth> hey, HP is going to use a customized version of Ubuntu for their linux machines
<bluefoxicy> and services are infinite stock because they're coming from your techs
<bluefoxicy> zyga:  that output is all from pritnf
<Burgundavia> convinced my father to let me let his research students have Ubuntu on his old laptop
<bluefoxicy> Burgundavia:  but I got in because my aunt knows derek
<Burgundavia> ah
<bluefoxicy> the district manager
<bluefoxicy> I got the INTERVIEW
<bluefoxicy> but I had to actually survive the interview to get the job
<bluefoxicy> I don't do the thing where people hand me shit for free.
<zyga> bluefoxicy: printf suxx, calls malloc
<zyga> bluefoxicy: almost anything calls malloc
<bluefoxicy> zyga:  wtf :o
<Burgundavia> bluefoxicy, how old are you
<bluefoxicy> Burgundavia:  19
<zyga> bluefoxicy: I've done my own _msgf that's simple enough and doesn't call anything besides write
<Burgundavia> ah
<bluefoxicy> Burgundavia:  I'm still a businessman
<zyga> bluefoxicy: really?
<zyga> :>
<bluefoxicy> zyga:  really
<bluefoxicy> zyga:  not interested in girls though so save yourself the trouble of asking me out ;P
<zyga> bluefoxicy: I'm not a girl :P
<zyga> bluefoxicy: get real ;] 
<bluefoxicy> :O
<zyga> hehe
<bluefoxicy> but your name ends with an 'a' and like everyone online is spanish
<bluefoxicy> well
<ningo> wohoho a/s/l time  in #ubuntu-devel  ?
<bluefoxicy> more of them are canadian than spanish
<zyga> bluefoxicy: that's my problem 
<zyga> bluefoxicy: /whois zyga
<zyga> (that doesn't sound like female, does it)
<Amaranth> Most people think I'm female.
<zyga> ningo: learn a new thing every day I guess ;-)
<bluefoxicy> ah
<zyga> bluefoxicy: anyway 
<zyga> bluefoxicy: could you try and run ls after #if 0ing all your printfs out/
<bluefoxicy> zyga:  I'll just disable debug
<bluefoxicy> zyga:  but it'll still die.
<zyga> bluefoxicy: did you run it via gdb?
<bluefoxicy> no
<zyga> bluefoxicy: I can actually run ls now
<bluefoxicy> yeah it infinite loops.
<bluefoxicy> zyga:  really?
<zyga> bluefoxicy: but my algorithm is so trivial it fails on real programs
<zyga> bluefoxicy: in a few hours it should be usable enough to run firefox I hope
<spo0nman> there is a usability bug in xchat ctrl - w closes a window but its too damn close to ctrl q which closes the application witout asking a question like "Do you want to close all tabs?" who to complain for a fix?
<zyga> bluefoxicy: we could move to #malloc just to avoid all the extra noise
<bluefoxicy> zyga:  *shrug* heh
<leonel> hello !  firefox1.0.3  was released  is there any patch for hoary's firefox 1.0.2 to fix the bugs 1.0.3 fixed ?
<Amaranth> not yet
<zyga> BTW: patch, cant we just use vanilla firefox code?
<Amaranth> Not in hoary.
<Burgundavia> if you look at the change logs for ubuntu 1.0.2, you see taht we already had most of the security patches in
<zyga> good to know
<zyga> perhaps you should call it firefox-1.0.2.1 then
<Burgundavia> this happens each release
<Burgundavia> the devs should just call it 1.0.3 to make the plebs happy
<zyga> Burgundavia: if the'd call it 1.0.4 that would make ubuntu popular ;] 
<Burgundavia> lol
<zyga> (har har har)
<Burgundavia> I am quite serious though
<zyga> I know
<Burgundavia> they should bump the version number
<zyga> bluefoxicy: what is your CPU?
<leonel> so it's safe  hoary's firefox 1.0.2  as safe as  mozilla-firefox 1.0.3
<zyga> leonel: version number voodoo is still important
<zyga> (debian stable has 0.2 because it's stable, har har ... wrong way to go)
<leonel> zyga,   yes or no would do
<zyga> leonel: your statement was a question? I'm confused
<leonel> so it's safe  hoary's firefox 1.0.2  as safe as  mozilla-firefox 1.0.3 ?
<zyga> ah
<zyga> leonel: in that case, from what I heard - yes
<zyga> leonel: but you might want to ask for details 
<bluefoxicy> zyga:  amd64
<leonel> yes is enough
<leonel> thanks zyga 
<zyga> bluefoxicy: those pointers looked suspiciously long ;)
<zyga> bluefoxicy: try using %p for pointers
<bluefoxicy> 1 + 4 + 4 = 12
* lamont goes to run a few last errands before the airplane
<bluefoxicy> according to my program.
<zyga> bluefoxicy: that is some truly fancy complex number math ;] 
<zyga> bluefoxicy: could you show a sample of your source code?
<bluefoxicy> zyga:  my struct minialloc is {char; size_t; miniheap*;}
<zyga> bluefoxicy: is that a sizeof calculation?
<zyga> hehe
<zyga> bluefoxicy: read about alignment
<zyga> :>
<bluefoxicy> which is 1 (sizeof(char)), 4 (sizeof(size_t)), and 4 (pointer)
<bluefoxicy> it's a structure
<bluefoxicy> it's not allowed to bea ligned!
<zyga> ...?
<bluefoxicy> it's supposed to be structural :P
<zyga> you got it wrong :P
<zyga> repack that to size_t, void *, char
<zyga> but read about alignment and structure padding
<zyga> it works not the way you think it does apparently
<bluefoxicy> heh
<bluefoxicy>  what the hell
<bluefoxicy> extra strength tylenol took 5 minutes to kill my headache
<Burgundavia> zyga, just posted to u-devel about it
<zyga> Burgundavia: about firefox versioning?
<Burgundavia> zyga, oui
<zyga> Burgundavia: tres bien!
<Burgundavia> basically saying bump the version numbers so we don't look bad
<zyga> Burgundavia: ah, I thoght I convinced you to bump them to 1.0.4 ;-)
<zyga> for a split second ;] 
<Burgundavia> IANAD
<zyga> Burgundavia: well written
<Burgundavia> thank you
<Burgundavia> took about 4 drafts
<bluefoxicy> how am I supposed to debug an allocator when my brain is feeling like it's getting fucked by a horse on and off
<bluefoxicy> this officially sucks.
<zyga> bluefoxicy: you may want to create #malloc-fucks-a-ho.... errr
<zyga> bluefoxicy: you may want to rest for a moment
<zyga> bluefoxicy: malloc is not going anywhere yet
<zyga> (this is hardly ubuntu-devel topic)
<bluefoxicy> does gdb work at all
<zyga> bluefoxicy: #malloc
<Amaranth> sorry, was testing something
<jp> when will fixed libgnome-cil at breezy? since yesterday it's broken.
<cartman> jp: report a bug
<jp> cartman sorry but that sucks =) 
<cartman> jp: well thats how it supposed to work
<jp> well by, i'll use hoary, for more comodity
<Amaranth> jp: sorry but you don't pay us :)
<cartman> reminds me that I need to report a console-data bug
<jp> Amaranth yep
<jp> I know. That's is the bad part of open source
<jp> well bye guys
<cartman> it works :)
<Amaranth> jp: That all your little issues aren't fixed on your command?
<jp> btw thanks.
<jp> Amaranth !
* jnc hands Amaranth a harmless foam bat
* Amaranth beats jp with it
<Amaranth> :)
<jp> well
<jp> I only said that it sucks, 'cause tseng said me today it'll be ok, butit's broken, and it's a so used tool.
<jp> that's.
<jnc> who you callin' a used tool there buddy
<jp> mmm
<Amaranth> hehe
<jp> gtk-sharp 
<jp> don't you know it?
<jp> 
<jnc> my butits are my own business
<Amaranth> well, you're using a devel version of a distro you get for free, things don't always work and all you can do is file a bug report so people know something is wrong
<jp> ok
<Amaranth> oh, and pray for a fix, if you want :)
<jnc> well said Amaranth 
<leonel> Any plans to make an Ubuntu Distro as Kubuntu  But only with Server Packages ?
<jp> Amaranth that's I was waiting for today =)
<jp> jeje
<jp> well i'll use hoary, and problem solved.
<jp> thanks btw
<Mithrandir> jp: you're free to purchase a support contract from Canonical and we'll see what we can do to solve your problems
<jnc> leonel: kind of defeats the point of Kubuntu does it not?
<Mithrandir> (or from some other company offering support contracts, obviously.)
<leonel> jnc, ubuntu  gnome centric   kubuntu  kde centric  i mean  a Subuntu ?   Server Centric 
<jp> Mithrandir I'm not saying that, I'm only asking about a problem that bust be solved for today.
<Mithrandir> leonel: just boot the system with "server" when installing.
<jp> must*
<leonel> jnc,  no X no gnome no kde just  server packages  
<jnc> leonel: there's a server option on Ubuntu Hoary install
<zyga> Amaranth: jc can do far more
<Mithrandir> jp: "must be solved" sounds a lot like "I need a support contract" to me. :)  
<zyga> Amaranth: he can fix it him/her self and provide a patch
<leonel> Mithrandir, I know but there's many packages for server on universan not suitable for producction
<Mithrandir> jp: (or "I'll solve this myself")
<jnc> leonel: really though, i personally run a straight debian install when i'm doing server stuffs
<jp> mmm
<zyga> Amaranth: that will be greeted far better then 'it's borken ... arghh'
<Mithrandir> leonel: what has universe to do with this?
<leonel> jnc, I have debian but woody is so old that I need new packages   and sarge has no security support yet
<Amaranth> universe it totally unsupported
<Amaranth> it's a "take it or leave it, good luck" kind of thing there
<jp> Mithrandir it's not. I'm only trying to say that it's a bug with libgnome-cil :@
<leonel> Mithrandir, universe is not supported so not suitable for producction
<jnc> leonel: watch bug traq and run sarge
<jp> leonel  it's true.
<Mithrandir> leonel: I've been a ubuntu developer since last August, I know what universe means. :)
<jp> libgnome-cil is at universe Mithrandir
<Burgundavia> Mithrandir, lol
<jp> hahahaha
<leonel> jnc, not an  option
<Mithrandir> jp: there are two discussions here, one is the server one, one is the libgnome-cil problem you're having.
<jnc> leonel: what exactly do you need this for anyways
<jp> Mithrandir ok, libgnome-ci don't have official support, tseng know things about that package.
<jp> Mithrandir ok, libgnome-ci don't have official support, tseng knows things about that package.
<Mithrandir> leonel: there's a lot of server packages in main.
<leonel> jnc,  more server packages that could go instead  X Gnome / Kde
<jnc> leonel: is this for your job or for fun?
<leonel> jnc, job
<Mithrandir> jp: yeah, but he might very well be on a plane to .au now, as he's coming for UDU
<jnc> leonel: so uh... get a redhat support contract
<jnc> or one from canocial
<jnc> (spelling leaves something to be desired)
<leonel> jnc, jejeje  Centos works fine  but I'd like  Ubuntu 
<Mithrandir> leonel: which server packages are you missing?
<jp> Mithrandir mmm so you're saying I have to pay canonical support for it? for breezy? LOL
<jnc> I'd like 50 hours in a day and grass that grows to a perfect height always green
<jnc> we're getting there through the marvel of science and hard work
<leonel> Mithrandir, libdbd-pg-perl 
<jnc> it's going to take a while and some money
<leonel> among others
<jp> well there's no solution for libgnome-cil :(
<Mithrandir> jp: no, I'm not saying that, I'm saying that if you want to have any kind of guarantees (or something like that) for timely fixes, you should purchase a support contract.  Apart from that, it'll all be best-effort
<Mithrandir> leonel: propose it for the supportedseed for breezy, then
<zyga> jp: it's not that anyone WANTS it broken ;)
<jp> haha
<jp> :)
<jnc> if you got time to complain, you have time to fix the darn thing
<leonel> Mithrandir, thanks let me make  my list :)
<Mithrandir> jp: but then , breezy is pretty shaky right now, so you basically shouldn't be running it on non-development systems.  But you've already discovered that. :)
<jnc> Hoary isn't even feature complete on all archs
<jp> Mithrandir yep, I'm using it 'cause it has gnome 2.10.1, i'm not a developer...
<jp> I'm gonna use hoary =)
<jp> bye
<jnc> gnome 2.4.x is perfectly usable
<Mithrandir> jp, see you around
<jp> bye Mithrandir
<jnc> hm.   
<jnc> is Ubuntu even designed with server applications in mind?
<Amaranth> that's funny, libgnome-cil is working fine here
<Amaranth> what's wrong with it for you?
<jnc> which arch
<Amaranth> x86
<jnc> i.e maybe it works on foo but not bar
<Mithrandir> jnc: it would be slightly more useful if you said what was missing or broken rather than just complaining
<jnc> Mithrandir: oh yeah i was here before release filing bugs etc.
<jnc> i don't have the # handy but you can search for "openoffice won't print amd64" something like that i believe
<jnc> the title was originally different for the bug report
<Mithrandir> yeah, I know about that one.
<Mithrandir> I just didn't get around to fixing it.
<jnc> I would submit a fix, it's a simple matter that I have no clue for what OpenOffice does.  I usually pick smaller pieces of cake to consume
<Mithrandir> I know what the fix is, it's just that OOo is big and scary and makes me want to cry. ;)
<jnc> it used to work when i first installed Hoary preview, then after some update between then and now it ceased to function
<jnc> exactly, sir
<jnc> is there an LD_PRELOAD= workaround or something I could do? would be nice as i'm attempting to use that hardware for an office computer
<Mithrandir> I can try to provide a backported fix when I get back home, but there's no way I'm going to do that with a second latency to my home systems. :)
<jnc> backported... from breezy?
<jnc> if it's fixed in breezy, i mean shoot at least i can update that bug
<Mithrandir> no, it's not fixed yet
<Mithrandir> but I can provide hoary packages once I've fixed it in breezy
<jnc> oh okay.   it would be much appreciated
<jnc> FYI you'll see me complain on occasion I do submit fixes too
<jnc> electric sheep screensaver configuration is one
<jnc> it looks spectacular on a flatscreen lcd
* jnc drools'
<Mithrandir> jnc: just a bit tired after I slept shitty this night.
<Mithrandir> I should really try to get a few hours more
<jnc> same here
<jnc> isn't it just awful when ya don't sleep 6+ hours at least?
<Mithrandir> the problem right now is I'm at LCA which means my timezone is eight hours off, I'm not home, I miss my fiancee and am developing conference cough-sickness.
<Mithrandir> but it's fun, so I'm not complaining.
<Mithrandir> it's just that I get a bit grumpy
<jnc> understood
<Burgundavia> Mithrandir, have you read my post to u-devel regarding ff numbering
<Mithrandir> not really, but it's thom and not me who maintains ff
<Burgundavia> is thom about?
<Mithrandir> probably not atm; it's 05:02 in the morning here
<Mithrandir> in four hours or so, he should be
<Mithrandir> I'm off for a bit more sleep
<Burgundavia> ah
<Burgundavia> ok
<Burgundavia> timezones mess me up
<fgx> hi devs. do you think hoary's php version wil be updated after the getimagesize() bug discovered today?
<zyga> fgx: devs are away ATM 
<\sh> devs are all down under
<\sh> down, under water, or in australia *eg*
<fgx> zyga, ok, thx
<bluefoxicy> i'm going to class.  GPS doesn't work, but I don't use IDEs anyway.
<zyga> bluefoxicy: GPS and IDE have what in common?
<bluefoxicy> zyga:  uhhhhhhhh. . . 
<bluefoxicy> http://libre.adacore.com/gps/
<zyga> global positioning system ;] 
<bluefoxicy> i'm installing it on xp anyway
<bluefoxicy> I have XP on my laptop and  only boot into it to install and configure open source software on windows
<bluefoxicy> so that when peoeple talk to me about linux and open source software
<bluefoxicy> I can be like
<bluefoxicy> *whips out big dcache of free software on windows*
<zyga> bluefoxicy: I cannot stand working on windows
<zyga> bluefoxicy: when 80% of my time is spent in the shell and 20% in the browser windows is very unplesant
#ubuntu-devel 2005-05-03
* dieman finally gets around to fai for hoary.
<dieman> doing my first install.
<dieman> barely had to change much from warty.
<spo0nman> is anyone doing a package of gaim-vv? 
<lifeless> are there stats around on package counts for hoary - size of ujniverrse, supported etc
<ajmitch_> apt-cache stats shows some values
<ajmitch_> doesn't split it by component though
<ajmitch_> you could always use grep-dctrl for that :)
<lifeless> heh my machinbe has debian repos too - not entirely usefl:[
<Kamion> use grep-dctrl on selected files in /var/lib/apt/lists/
<lifeless> ok. pity there isn't a page somewhere stats.ubuntu.com or something ;)
<jordi> hey Kamion
<Kamion> morning
<jordi> sigh, I wish I was there.
<carlos> jordi: the conference is next week, you can join us :-)
<jordi> well, no. :)
<jordi> carlos: but feel free to ask Mark if I can still. I can arrange stuff now. Workload is low now here.
<jordi> But I couldn't know that 3 weeks ago.
<jordi> heh, I know it's impossible, but anyway.
<carlos> jordi: I leave tomorrow
<carlos> jordi: If you are able to find a flight that it's not too expensive... :-P
<jordi> carlos: hrm. I have no ticket. :)
<jordi> carlos: where do I search? :)
<carlos> lol
<carlos> dude, you need to travel more often
<jordi> thanks for the reminder, Mr. Conference
<Lathiat>  heh
<jordi> hmm, a miracle
<jordi>  881   + Apr 21 To jordi@sindom (  39) New Norwegian Bokmaal PO file for `nano'
<jordi> actually no, it's the Czech and a few other translations which hasn't been updated in ages.
<mkde> mdz, mdz_, you here by any chance?
<mdz_> vaguely
<mkde> mdz_, i have a quick question about the idea of a documentation upload to hoary
<mkde> i understand there are language pack updates going in, and we have also added our stuff to Rosetta, so we wondered if there was any possibility of uploading with translations in new languages, if and when they become available.
<mkde> mdz_, have i asked the question in the wrong place? if so, just lemme know who to ask it to :)
<mdz_> mkde: it isn't outside the realm of possibility to release updates with new translations of documentation
<mdz_> mkde: assuming that the package contains _only_ documentation
<mkde> mdz_, thats what I like to hear :)
<mkde> mdz_, the only updates would be languages, the original documentation is frozen and wouldn't change
<mdz_> mkde: at some point in the future, we should discuss integrating documentation translations in language packs
<mkde> mdz_, yeah that is a dream to pursue
<mkde> mdz_, i understand very little, you need to talk to enrico of course, but afaik there might be difficulties that the language packs don't really deal with documentation, but with interfaces
<mdz_> mkde: the current language packs deal with gettext translations.  it is possible to translate documentation using similar mechanisms, though it may be that a different approach would make more sense
<mkde> mdz_, would be cool to pursue the idea at some stage
<Kosai> Maybe I can stick a font question in here.  Hoary doesn't seem to bundle any fonts that can render Japanese Hiragana.  (But does bundle Korean and Arabic.)
<mkde> mdz_, so shall we come back to you when we actually have some new translations and have tested to make sure everything builds?
<toresbe> is the Ubuntu /etc/debian_version supposed to be "3.1"?
<mdz_> mkde: contact me when you have a package ready to upload
<mkde> mdz_, thanks muchly
<bluefoxicy> um
<bluefoxicy> ethereal as root asks for root's password
<bluefoxicy> instead of mine.
<Keybuk> toresbe: what else would it be?
<toresbe> Keybuk: I'm not sure
<Keybuk> that's the same as unstable
<toresbe> nm, it was solved in two tosses of furniture and a punch to the face in another channel
<dobwan> can someone point me at an esc/p (Epson Standard Code for Printers) language reference? I want to dump a 80 column wide print out landscape 2 columns wide.
<zul> dobwan: thats kind of a #ubuntu question but check google as well
<dobwan> zul I've tried google I figured I go to the source of knowledge
<dobwan> zul, I'll try the cups devel people they must have the knowledge, thanks
<Kamion> toresbe: about the only other thing we could sensibly do would be to remove that file; however, we felt that leaving it there would be better because tools that look at those kinds of files to figure out how to interact with the system will then interact with Ubuntu as if it were Debian, which will generally be reasonable
<toresbe> Kamion: Yeah, true
<toresbe> Kamion: All the other Deb-derived distros maintain the file
<Kamion> we have lsb-release for more accuracy
<Lathiat> uh all libc6 upgrade
<Lathiat> brace for impact
<Kamion> Lathiat: changelog doesn't look particularly bad
<Lathiat> i'd hate to be the maintainer
<Kamion> Lathiat: anyway, you're upgrading over *this* network? ;-)
<Lathiat> be paranoid you'll screw someones system up bad
<Lathiat> Kamion: whats wrong with that?
<Kamion> slow
<Lathiat> pfft im getting 110K/s
<Lathiat> i only get 50 at home!
<Lathiat> i thought you were goign to say someone might trojan my packages
<Lathiat> and i was going to say tahts what gpg signing is for :)
<Lathiat> i guess elmo coudl trojan my packages or soemthing :)
<Lathiat> mm evolution install is broken, bugger.
<Lathiat> everytime something breaks it happens to be the thing i want at the time :)
<toresbe> Crap. My Ubuntu disk died. Back do debian sid on my 18-gigger until I manage to find a disk
<Kamion> Lathiat: welcome to breezy
<Lathiat> Kamion: yeh i know :)
* toresbe is buying a SATA disk
<toresbe> Yay breezy
<Lathiat> at least gaim is fixed now
<Lathiat> just need a working mono and installable evolution and i'll be happy again :)
* Lathiat wonders if the maintainers of either of those packages are at LCA and can be bribed with free beer
<zul> the bribe will probably work
<Lathiat> yeh, just need said maintainers
<Lathiat> i dont think tseng is here
<Lathiat> wonder who does evo
<Lathiat> takuo kitami, no idea who that is
<crimsun> seb does it in ubuntu, doesn't he?
<tseng> Lathiat: i dont drink alcohol, sorry
<Lathiat> tseng: are you at lca?
<tseng> no
<tseng> ill be at udu next week
<Lathiat> ah
<Lathiat> i wont , bugger 
<jdub> hrm
<jdub> who's running breezy?
<Riddell> jdub: you do mailing lists yes?
<jdub> yeah
<Riddell> jdub: I'm getting admin e-mails about kubuntu-bugs but I never got a password for it
<jdub> ahar
<jdub> i can reset it
<bluefoxicy> question:  is snort in breezy compiled with --enable-inline (./configure --enable-inline)?
<Kamion> apt-get source snort, find out :)
<Kamion> if it is, it'll be in debian/rules
<bluefoxicy> if not?
<lifeless> Lathiat: change your flights ;)
<toresbe> it won't.
<bluefoxicy> Kamion:  it's not
<bluefoxicy> :(
<toresbe> bluefoxicy: then apt-build?
<bluefoxicy> toresbe:  heh.
<Lathiat> lifeless: yeh i dunno if i can
<Lathiat> im also lackign in accomodation
<Lathiat> and money to eat for the week
<Lathiat> mmm gconf backends look fairly trivial to write
<jdub> Lathiat: :-)
<jdub> Lathiat: was just pinging kris to ask him about it
<Lathiat> was just looking at the bdb and xml ones
<Lathiat> looks like it coudl be hacked up rather easily
<jdub> Lathiat: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=107926
<Lathiat> apparently gconf hurts gnome session load times
<Lathiat> any idea on the truth/stats of that?
<jdub> not hugely
<Lathiat> not having schemas in ldb could help a bit here
<Lathiat> jdub: has anyone done any work at profiling gnoem startup to see what most of the time is spent doing? thatd be interesting
<cc> we talked about ldb as a gconf replacement, didn't we, ages ago jdub ?
<Lathiat> i mean it seems to be I/O bound just watching my hard drive light, but what its loading etc would be interesting
<cc> well, not replacement, but putting gconf into ldb...
<jdub> cc: tdb, from memory
<cc> jdub: erps, yeah, tdb. sorry. and it was a good idea then ;-)
<jdub> ldb gives you the ldap backend passthrough bonus
<cc> hmm, time to think about this further. if gnome 3 is going to be massive changes ;-)
<jdub> this is 2.x-able
<Lathiat> yeh
<Lathiat> everyone needs to stop smoking the omg 3.x crack :)
<Lathiat> 3.x imo is for stuff like major changes to the way the desktop works physically
<cc> jdub: i'll give it a go *as in take a look)
<jdub> cc: chat to Lathiat too :)
<Lathiat> yeh i was just looking at it
<Lathiat> gconf backends don't seem overly hard to do
<cc> yeah, okay, lets do that Lathiat 
<cc> lunch
<lifeless> cctry tdb
<bluefoxicy> http://ask.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/04/19/1849215&from=rss  <-- in Ubuntu, it works by clicking "Printing" in the administration menu and double-clicking "add a printer"
<bluefoxicy> obviously these people haven't yet realized that Red Hat is the ass of the Linux community, because every "where is it" I've seen appear on Slashdot seems to be centered around Red Hat's Fedora Core, while I just think "Now I KNOW I saw that in Gentoo and Ubuntu. . . ."
<bluefoxicy> anyway, sleep.
<infinity> Since when does gcc refuse to link -lstdc++ (and should it)?
<infinity> Oh, nevermind.  <smack forehead>
<infinity> gcc-4.0 -lstdc++ would try to call link using g++-4.0, which we explicitly don't want.
<infinity> (Or should it?)
<crimsun> right, you'd have to b-d on libstdc++6-4.0-dev
<crimsun> I ran into that a few days ago
<crimsun> hmm, there was work a while back in Sid that was supposed to get rid of the libstdc++$foo-dev dependency
<infinity> b-d on libstdc++6-4.0-dev is very much the wrong answer.
<crimsun> yeah, that's why I immediately remembered someone's work to remove all the libstdc++$foo-dev
<infinity> But I'm wondering why gcc-4.0 can't be made to link using "g++" rather than g++4.0, or something.
<elmo> people shouldn't use gcc and link libstdc++
<elmo> if you're compiling C++ it should be done with 'g++'
<infinity> elmo : Yes, but lots of packages do.
<elmo> infinity: no they don't
<elmo> it doesn't work on some of debian's platforms, noticeably hppa
<infinity> <raise brow>
<infinity> And yet mysql-dfsg builds fine there.
<infinity> Are you positive it doesn't work?
<infinity> sdl-mixer, too.
<elmo> it didn't use to when I ran their buildd
<elmo> *shrug* maybe they "fixed it" - regardless, I still think the right fix is to fix the package to use g++ for GXX
<elmo> or CXX or whatever
<infinity> Well, I'd say it pretty obviously does work now.
<infinity> And yeah, I'm heading into packages that fail like this and trying to DTRT, but it's still irritating. :)
<infinity> Oh, well I get to blame willy for this one.  Of course, he made the change in 2001, so I doubt he remembers. :)
<fabbione> morning
<infinity> Ahh, the plot thickens.  We're linking libstdc++ because we're linking a C binary with a static lib that sometimes (but not always) contains a C++ bit.
<infinity> I don't think I like MySQL anymore.
<tfheen> you liked mysql before?  sicko.
<infinity> Perhaps I should rephrase that. :)
<infinity> Well, that's the last I'll see of the Monash library for a week or so.
<infinity> See everyone (who's going) at UDU...
<thom> infinity: lucky you :-)
* infinity -> home.
<thom> cya sunday/monday thing
<jordi> seb128: DUDE
<jordi> how the fuck do you make an international phone call with this stupid phone
<seb128> ??
<seb128> what phone ?
<jordi> seb128: dude I'm planning a last minute flight to Sydeny
<jordi> I got ok from sabdfl and more surprisingly from my 3 bosses
<seb128> oh, cool
<jordi> I need to phone Edward PEarson but can't figure out how
<seb128> how have never called out of your country ?
<jordi> not from office
<seb128> or do you just have a special phone ?
<seb128> oh, k, dunno :p
<maswan> take your cell phone, just start with a '+' and the country code?
<mdz_>  fabbione: shall we remove 2.6.11 from the archive?
<jordi> maswan: that's the secondary plan, yes
<seb128> just kick somebody from the office ?
<Treenaks> jordi: get an outside line, then 00<country code><area code><number> ?
<Treenaks> that's how it works in 99% of offices here..
<astharot> ciao
<jordi> Treenaks: I already used my mobile phone
<seb128> so ?
<ogra> seb128, you missed an awesome meal btw...
<jordi> ogra: YOU MEAN THERE ARE NO BAGS OF DEATH?
<jordi> err
<jordi> death in a bag, whatever
<seb128> ogra, I don't like fish, what did you eat ?
<seb128> jordi, that's VAC atm, not conf :p
<pitti> Hey
<ogra> seb128, heh, marlin...
<ogra> seb128, wouldnt have been your restauant of choice then...
<ogra> btw. i dont like fish either.... but on holiday i'm open for experiments :)
<ogra> and this was a fairly good one :)
<seb128> who is marlin ? 
<seb128> pitti, hey martin ;)
<ogra> seb128, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marlin
<ogra> seb128, you know the "old man and the sea" from hemingway :)
<\sh> ogra: looks like a peace of mutant thuna ;-)
<\sh> aeh s/peace/piece/
<\sh> grmpf...I'm getting confused..I have to script windows cmd sh*t now
<Treenaks> Mutant Tuna?
<Treenaks> Teenage Mutant Hero Tuna?
<\sh> Treenaks: right...that's a malin ,->
<ogra> heh
<seb128> ogra, right
<seb128> I've read this book
<ogra> :)
<seb128> jordi, .au flight ?
<delire> it seems the predominant issue new users are having with hoary in the #ubuntu channel relates to not being able to hear audio playback or write to the soundcard, despite the alsa modules are loaded. in stock debian, and on my own ubuntu system, this is quickly solved with alsaconf writing the correct aliases in /etc/modules.conf and/or killing esd altogether. what is the 'ubuntu way' of writing the correct aliases? also, are you guy
<pitti> Hi astharot 
<astharot> hi pitti :)
<ogra> delire, use esd for all apps is the simple answer
<pitti> astharot: would be great to see you on board. 
<delire> ogra: i don't use gnome. i'm more talking about the 2 dozen folk i've been helping in #ubuntu on my spare time.
<astharot> pitti: for me too! :)
<ogra> delire, then tell it to them ;)
<delire> ogra: you don't see it as an issue with ubuntu itself?
<delire> ogra: given that this wasn't a problem in the last release.
<delire> warty
<ogra> it might be a issue to have the right alsa module for your card loaded, but thats easy verified by comparing the output of lsmod and lspci, but in no case you shoud kill esd... if users use such old cruft like xmms for audio playback, just make sure they take the esd output plugin...
<Treenaks> ogra: old SDL games (like simcity 3000) don't work with esd either
* ajmitch_ hasn't noticed xmms problems yet
<Treenaks> ogra: ogra at least, not in the way described in their manuals
<ogra> Treenaks, libsdl1.2debian-esd
<Treenaks> ogra: that's the only version I have installed
<Treenaks> ogra: but somehow it doesn't work.
<ogra> hmm
<ogra> Treenaks, probably crimsun can help here
<delire> ogra: many however hear no system sound at all. in fact looking at a log, nearly one in four new folk that join to channel have this issue
<Treenaks> ogra: the "kill it" solution is good enough for nerdy old me ;)
<delire> crimsun: seems inclined toward polypaudio. two users in the last hour in #ubuntu have installed polypaudio to 'fix' their audio problems
<delire> s/://
<delire> i notice that seem to get this issue right everytime, why my uni has installed in on 30 machines over ubuntu (sadly)
<Diablo-D3> hey all
<delire> Mepis
<delire> .. get it right.." i meant to say..
<Diablo-D3> why does ubuntu-desktop require fetchmail?
<ogra> Treenaks, for you...
<Diablo-D3> fetchmail doesnt seem to be much of a end user application
<delire> Diablo-D3: it is if you have an MTA like exim on board
<Treenaks> ogra: yes, that's what I said.. there should be a solution, but for my situation a fix is not really necessary
<Diablo-D3> delire: yeah, but why does an end user need an mta?
<delire> Diablo-D3: in that you can call it directly or use it for fetching
<delire> Diablo-D3: perhaps you're right.
<ogra> delire, i'm currently not even able to browse the web for down under or neither to read my email, i wont be much help, but crimsun is the perfect guy to help here...
<ogra> s/for/from
<delire> ogra: ok cheers.. 
<Diablo-D3> delire: I mean, sure, fetchmail is a great application, especially when coupled with procmail...
<Diablo-D3> but end users use stuff like thunderbird
<delire> Diablo-D3: that's been my setup since Debian Potato ;)
<delire> Diablo-D3: true..
<Diablo-D3> delire: hah, thats been mine since around the same time
<delire> ;)
* Diablo-D3 started with slink
<delire> anyway, time for a walk in the morning sun.
<delire> good chatting. hasta luego
<Diablo-D3> seeya
<Diablo-D3> so does anyone here know if I should file a bug on this?
<seb128> rah, where is pitti now ?
<ogra> seb128, he is running out of power.... saves himself the wlan stick....
<pitti> seb128: what's up? Don't be so lazy, just come down :-)
<seb128> ah ah
<seb128> I'm not lazy but the room feels better than the TV room, we have some fresh air
<GheRivero> res
<SlackShrike> how to building custom ubuntu install/live cd from scratch?
<_nyn_> I was wondering... Are there any obstacles to incorporate tools built by other distros into ubuntu? For instance, a graphical installer, or gui administrative tools (so as to not force people to use the command-line). Would it be that hard to adapt them? I was looking at screenshots from the mandrake installer, and it seemed quite nice and mature...
<tfheen> _nyn_: you really don't want to rewrite the installer, there's work underway to add a graphical frontend and it's coming along nicely.
<_nyn_> yes, i've seem some discussion on the wiki, but I was just wondering why this should be done from scratch...
<_nyn_> if not the installer, what about other gui tools available in other distros?
<_nyn_> is there any kind of a priori rejection on reusing tools done for other distros?
<Burgundavia> _nyn_, what is the license on the mandrake stuff?
<Burgundavia> generall Ubuntu tries to use the upstream stuff
<Burgundavia> ala the gome stuff
<_nyn_> good question!
<Treenaks> i.e. stuff that's been proven to work
<Burgundavia> ala, if we promote upstream stuff over distro specific stuff, Linux as a whole will get easier to use
<Burgundavia> s/ala/also
<tfheen> _nyn_: there's gnome-system-tools which is cross-distro
<_nyn_> yes, but the gnome stuff... it is SO limited, it seems to be designed for end-users inside a big corporation, with sysadmins who don' t need these tools anyway, and where end-user don't need or are not allowed to configure the system...
<Treenaks> tfheen: I have a new colleague here who looks like he's a mixture between you and Mako..
<Treenaks> _nyn_: concrete example?
<tfheen> Treenaks: oh?
<Treenaks> tfheen: yeah really weird :)
<_nyn_> the volume applet, from which i can' t choose the sound device...
<_nyn_> (or so it was with warty)
<Treenaks> _nyn_: known problem. is being worked on,... and you CAN choose the sound card in the mixer in haory
<_nyn_> menu editing...
<Treenaks> just not the default output..
<Treenaks> _nyn_: known bug. being worked on for 2.12
<_nyn_> network configuration...
<Treenaks> _nyn_: works fine for me
<Treenaks> I can setup almost anything
<_nyn_> well, for me the ppp connection doesn' t even show up (hoary)
<Treenaks> how did you set it up?
<_nyn_> i've got used to ifconfig's and all...
<Treenaks> through the UI?
<_nyn_> pppoe-conf
<_nyn_> pppd, etc. etc.
<Treenaks> _nyn_: not through the Gnome UI for it?
<Treenaks> _nyn_: or is that buggy? if so, please file bugs instead of just complaining
<_nyn_> i tried once, it didn' t work....
<Treenaks> bugzilla.ubuntu.com
<tfheen> _nyn_: networkmanager is going to solve that anyhow.
<_nyn_> well, to file bug makes sense when the problem is punctual.... here, i'm talking about a general design strategy....
<_nyn_> you see, i haven't used anything besides debian and ubuntu...
<_nyn_> but i hear these other commercial distros have all these great administrative tools. I did check the mandrake graphical installer and it seemed quite good
<Treenaks> tfheen: For PPPoE/PPTP connections as well?
<tfheen> _nyn_: adopting and supporting multiple installer is a major headache.
<tfheen> Treenaks: I think so
<_nyn_> anyway, since this has started... my gratest problem with gnome is the fact that it doesn' t distinguish user profiles... it's a one-size-fits-all, which for me is desperately underpowered...
<tfheen> uhm, installers, not installer.
<Treenaks> tfheen: that'd be great, it'd remove my dad's only reason for running windows (easy PPTP config for his job's servers)
<tfheen> _nyn_: what do you mean by user profiles?
<_nyn_> do you know if it might be in gnome's horizon to introduce the concept of user profiles (say, newbie/joe-user, intermediate, advanced)?
<Burgundavia> are you talking about something like sabayon?
<_nyn_> taking into account different kinds of user, and having different interfaces adapted to these different kinds of uers
<Burgundavia> _nyn_, in a non-enterprise environmnet, why is that useful?
<Treenaks> _nyn_: that probably won't be implemented... everyone will want to switch to advanced because they think they're so good
<Burgundavia> better to make one really great default interface
<Treenaks> _nyn_: also, it makes stuff look different for different people, so helping is harder ("Hey! That option is not on my screen!")
<_nyn_> Treenaks: really? i keep hearing people praise how "simplicity" is great, how wonderful it is not to be "cluttered" with options...
<Treenaks> _nyn_: yes. for everyone
<_nyn_> so those people might choose a profile that doesn't present them with that many options
<Burgundavia> as Treenaks said
<Treenaks> _nyn_: not only people who select "n00b"  from the menu
<Treenaks> _nyn_: or whatever
<Amaranth> what package is supposed to provide esd?
<Treenaks> Amaranth: polypaudio?
<Treenaks> Amaranth: or esound
<Amaranth> *facepalm*
<Amaranth> i removed polypaudio :P
<_nyn_> "it makes stuff look different for different people, so helping is harder" -- no, it shouldn't be, not if the thing is implemented correctly. it should be trivial to know the person's profile and know what is and what is not available to them
<Burgundavia> Amaranth, either do
<Treenaks> _nyn_: you really don't want that headache
<Burgundavia> _nyn_, you have obiviously never worked in a IT help desk environmnet
<Treenaks> _nyn_: it's better to just provide one simple interface that WORKS for everyone
<_nyn_> but NOTHING works for everyone!!!
<Treenaks> _nyn_: and where you can safely ignore the things you don't understand
<Burgundavia> _nyn_, you can get pretty close
<_nyn_> the current gnome certainly does not work for me and for lots of people who find it underpowered...
<Treenaks> _nyn_: specifics.. file bugs..
<Burgundavia> ah, we come to the crux of the matter
<Burgundavia> the user doesn't like gnome
<_nyn_> and don't think that the solution is to have two whole diffrent "desktops" (gnome/kde) to respond to that
<_nyn_> oh, come on... i really don't think that the reasons you have given so far justify that kind of rigidity...
<Burgundavia> it is not ridigity
<Burgundavia> you can customize your gnome as your like
<_nyn_> anyway, i'm really interested in this discussion... if anyone has a quick to link to a place where it has already been discussed, i would appreciate....
<wasabi_> thank you ubuntu for including traffic shapping by default.
<Treenaks> _nyn_: the gnome HIG, for instance
<_nyn_> you can customize gnome???
<Treenaks> wasabi_: they include that?
<wasabi_> Yup.
<Burgundavia> absolutely
<Treenaks> _nyn_: yes
<Burgundavia> right lcick, add to panel
<_nyn_> tell me, please, how do i take off these ugly "applications/places/system" out of my menu??
<Burgundavia> remove from panel
<Burgundavia> right click, remove from panel
<wasabi_> I was doing a backup of another server, left my workstation on all night doing it. Get a call in the morning that people's stuff is running slow.
<wasabi_> "uh oh, backup still going". So I cross my fingers and rate limit it down... It's a smbclient/tar backup of a Windows system. A little hard to resume later. ;)
<_nyn_> of course, it does provide *some* space for choices, but it is certainly not enough for a large amount of users...
<Burgundavia> _nyn_, file a bug
<Treenaks> wasabi_: oh basic tc work
<Burgundavia> and most of us like a good default
<_nyn_> and i don't think forking is the way to go
<_nyn_> i'd like to see something much, much more flexible...
<Treenaks> _nyn_: file a bug with your opinion
<Treenaks> _nyn_: maybe people will listen and implement it
<Amaranth> _nyn_: An advanced user can work with an app designed for a newb, the reverse isn't true.
<_nyn_> it is not a bug, it is a design issue
<Burgundavia> anything is a bug if it doesn't work rigth for you
<Treenaks> _nyn_: design issues are ALSO bugs
<wasabi_> Treenaks, yeah
<wasabi_> Treenaks, problem is I always end up in situations like this going "damnit, have to compile it."
<Treenaks> wasabi_: apt is your friend :)
<wasabi_> isn't tc a module too?
<Treenaks> wasabi_: it's a set of kernel modules, yes
<wasabi_> those. ;)
<Treenaks> wasabi_: but the default kernel has _ALL_ modules that are not mutually exclusive, buggy or both
<Burgundavia> _nyn_, generally, most people don't actually agree with you, sorry, but feel free to file a bug at bugzilla.gnome.org
<_nyn_> i do consider the distinction between a bug and a design issue to be an important one... anyway, i'd really like to see (and participate in) some serious discussion on these issues. are the mailing lists the only way to go? or do these take place in wiki (would be ideal for me)?
<Burgundavia> _nyn_, bugzilla is a good place
<Burgundavia> _nyn_, so it gnome usability
<Treenaks> _nyn_: bugzilla is just a way of keeping track of this things. just like wishlist items aren't really "bugs"..
<Treenaks> _nyn_: we call them bugs anyway
<_nyn_> :)
<_nyn_> great principle for a system: everything is a bug
<Treenaks> _nyn_: no, we keep track of things we need to do using a bug tracking system
<Treenaks> _nyn_: and not a bug tracker, a feature request tracker, a design issue tracker, etc.
<Treenaks> _nyn_: it keeps complexity down. it's just a NAME
<_nyn_> anyway, since this started, how do you people that don't think gnome is to rigid, how do you view the present proliferation of desktop environments? are you fine with the idea of kde being for advanced users and gnome for those who want a simpler system?
<Treenaks> _nyn_: I consider myself an advanced user, and I have a complex system.. and I use gnome
<tfheen> _nyn_: I really don't see that difference at all; I think of myself as a fairly advanced user, but I use gnome.
<Treenaks> _nyn_: and if people want to use KDE, go right ahead... I don't like it
<Treenaks> _nyn_: personal preference
<Burgundavia> _nyn_, the last point is incorrect, IMO, and gnome is not too rigid and 2 DE's are not really that bad
<_nyn_> but do you think there are room for both?
<Treenaks> _nyn_: yes
<Burgundavia> absolutely
<_nyn_> what about 'once and only once'?
<tfheen> _nyn_: why not?  They seem to both thrive and work well
<_nyn_> what about code duplication?
<Treenaks> _nyn_: xfce is fine too.. heck.. if you can live with twm, go right ahead...
<Burgundavia> code duplication is being handled via freedesktop.org
<Treenaks> _nyn_: you can learn from other people's mistakes as well as your own..
<Burgundavia> ie poppler
<Treenaks> Burgundavia: poppler++!!!
<Treenaks> Burgundavia: evince is like lightning 
<Burgundavia> evince is very nice
<Burgundavia> and default for breezy
<Burgundavia> I hope that gnome .12 ships it as well
<Treenaks> Burgundavia: yeah, me too
<Treenaks> it's really lightning fast
<Burgundavia> it can even open images, which I didn't know about
<Burgundavia> till I had to find a multipage tiff reader for a guy
<Treenaks> ciik
<Treenaks> cool
<Burgundavia> _nyn_, there is very cool stuff regarding multiple DE's happening at freedesktop.org
<Treenaks> why does gentoo bugzilla go down just when I need it.. *sigh*
<zul> because it sucks?
<_nyn_> multiplicity can be good when it's justified. it is a bad thing if it just for the sake of having something different..
<_nyn_> it's better to have one piece of highly malleable, flexible software than twenty that overlap and don't cover the entire ground
<Burgundavia> it is better to recognize that neither is going away
<Burgundavia> and thus work to see hwo they can work together
<Treenaks> _nyn_: yeah, that's why we have 600.000 different programming languages that can all do the same, in principle
<_nyn_> that IS a bad thing...
<tfheen> no, it's not
<Burgundavia> not really
<tfheen> it's a good thing
<Burgundavia> have lots of something is not
<_nyn_> work together, exactly.... if there are two different approaches to a given problem, fine. but then, there has to be a time when things are weighed, and merges occur...
<Burgundavia> as long as they work together
<Burgundavia> _nyn_, it is part of choice, which you were just arguing for eariler
<_nyn_> variety, there' s a benign and a malign kind....
<tfheen> diversity is good by itself.
<_nyn_> variety is good when there is a reason for it, otherwise it is bad
<Treenaks> _nyn_: just because you don't agree with the reason, or don't see it, doesn't mean there IS no reason
<Burgundavia> diversity is as good a reason as you need
<_nyn_> Treenaks: of course not, but this is not about me, is it?
<_nyn_> so, you people don't recognize the existence of malign variety?
<mdke> is gftp compiled without ssl support? if so, is there any way to get it in?
<_nyn_> variety is *always* good?
<tfheen> _nyn_: no, it's inheretly good, because you will end up with clever solutions which can be shared by different systems.  Those appear "by accident", not by design.
<Burgundavia> monoculture is bad, see Microsoft
<_nyn_> oh. clever solutions will just pop up, like that... hmm.. i didn' t see it happening after decades of unix... look at the present state of unix-like system... it's a huge mess! it's pile of heterogenous software pieces!
<Burgundavia> ah, but the current monoculture isn;t much better
<_nyn_> consistency, coherence, architecture....
<tfheen> they are consistent; applications are text-based and work with files, for instance.
<Treenaks> _nyn_: unix is full of cleverness
<Burgundavia> virii, spyware
<_nyn_> the problem with microsoft is not monoculture....
<Burgundavia> a large part of it is
<Treenaks> _nyn_: it's a large chunk of the problem
<_nyn_> the problem is not which microsoft or monoculture, the problem is proprietary software... but well, i guess stallman has already covered that ground.... :)
<_nyn_> s/which/with
<Treenaks> _nyn_: it's a problem in free software too
<Burgundavia> no, the issue is not properitary software
<tfheen> at least, _this_ issue isn't proprietary vs free software
<Treenaks> _nyn_: if everyone runs KDE, and a bug is found, a worm emerges for KDE.. gnome people won't be affected
<Treenaks> _nyn_: impact reduction :)
<_nyn_> oh, i think that are much better ways to deal with software security...  to have a messy, disparate system doesn't seem to be a good one...
<Burgundavia> life is a messy disparate system
<mdke> you have a point
<Burgundavia> that is how some survives when a virus comes along
<_nyn_> not mine...
<_nyn_> L )
<_nyn_> :)
<mdke> it annoyed me to have to learn a new way of configuring apache when i tried to use it on debian/ubuntu
<_nyn_> at least, that is not where it is heading....
<Burgundavia> that is a bug
<_nyn_> if you don't use a computer, you won't be affected either....
<Treenaks> mdke: what do you mean? "a new way"?
<Treenaks> mdke: just dropping config files in a directory you mean?
<mdke> Treenaks, the enabled/available thing
<Treenaks> mdke: that's just symlinking :)
<Treenaks> I think it's brilliant
<mdke> Treenaks, i know what it is
<mdke> but its different
<mdke> but i guess difference can have its advantages
<mdke> another thing that weirded me out in debian is the lack of explanation of the useradd/adduser distinction
<mdke> if there is a difference from a linux norm, it should be well documented
<_nyn_> anyway... it was nice to have some immediate feedback on those issues, and do intend to discuss them seriously... i'm really not convinced, though, that buzilla is the best way to go... i still think the most productive support for such discussions is the wiki, and hopefully there is a place in live.gnome for them...
<Burgundavia> you can have a consistent user interface over different underlying archs
<mdke> so can anyone answer my question? how come ftp ssl support is not built into gftp, and how to get around it?
<_nyn_> by the way (and this will be my last point for now): i can't believe that is basically no infrastructure inside the gnu project itself for those kinds of discussions, or any discussion whatsoever, besides the mailing lists, which also barely touches the issues i'm interested in... it is so sad... has anyone check the "gnu coding standards"? it's just embarassing, and that is almost nothing concerning it on the mailing lists....
<Burgundavia> becuase most of the dicussion happens outside the gnu project
<tfheen> mdke: license issues; it would need an openssl exception clause
<_nyn_> and i find this very strange, as the gnu project is the one that should embrace it all...
<mdke> tfheen, anything I can do to get around it?
<Burgundavia> the gnu project has so serious issues
<Burgundavia> like stallman
<_nyn_> oh no!
<azeem> mdke: port it to gnutls, perhaps
<Burgundavia> s/so/some
<_nyn_> not stallman!
<mvirkkil> Is anyone else besides daniel stone working/planning to work on the graphical boot?
<tfheen> mdke: rebuild the package with --enable-ssl and libssl-dev installed.
<tfheen> mdke: it's just not redistributable.
<Burgundavia> tfheen, ugly, is there a plan to get around that?
<mdke> tfheen, is there no universe package with that?
<Treenaks> mdke: no
<_nyn_> many issues, or so it seems to me, but not stallman, at least not that one which stated the project goals, and its underlying principles...
<azeem> mdke: "not redistributable"
<Xof> which part of "it's not redistributable" is hard to understand?
<Treenaks> mdke: it's illegal to redistribute GPL apps with openssl support.
<Treenaks> mdke: if it linked to gnutls everything would be fine
<Xof> other than perhaps the insanity of the situation
<Treenaks> mdke: if it had an exception clause for openssl, it'd be fine too
<Treenaks> mdke: it has/does neither.
<tfheen> Burgundavia: no idea, it's universe so asking a MOTU might be a good idea.
<mdke> whoa
<mdke> chill guys
<mdke> i'm just asking
<mdke> because it works fine in gentoo
<azeem> they don't distribute binaries of it I guess
<tfheen> mdke: it's just illegal to distribute binaries linked with openssl
<Burgundavia> mdke, http://www.openssl.org/support/faq.html#LEGAL2
<mdke> i c
<mdke> bummer
<tfheen> mdke: if gentoo has binary packages with it linked to openssl, they are in violation of the license.  If they're just distributing source, it's fine.
<Treenaks> tfheen: uh.. binaries of GPL programs, that is
<mdke> tfheen, no there aren't binaries
<Robot101> gentoo "distributes" almost nothing, there are ebuilds for all manner of stuff which no other distribution would touch with a bargepole
<tfheen> Treenaks: uhm, naturally, yes, thanks.
<Treenaks> Robot101: mplayer? :P
<Robot101> Treenaks: binary blobs of anything really, firmware, drivers, shareware, Sun JVMs, whatever :)
<elmo> treenaks, multiverse.  multiverse, treenaks
* diamond grins
* Burgundavia screams MOM!
<mdke> so is there an alternative nongpl ftp client which supports ssl for ubuntu
<Burgundavia> hmm, that was an interesting troll
<diamond> elmo: hey. do you have any idea when the next community council meeting will be?
<Burgundavia> elmo, I need to get you my new key so I can get access to the svn repo again
<elmo> diamond: err, not off hand - is t not on the wiki?
<mdke> elmo, old one is still on the wiki
<diamond> elmo: no, hasn't been updated since the last (abortive) meeting
<elmo> ah
<elmo> I dunno, I'll ping mako tomorrow, if he's in a usable state
<diamond> elmo: ok, thanks.
<jordi> seb128: yes, I leave tomorrow at 2PM and arrive ther at 5AM two days later or something crazy like that.
<jordi> 4h laters the conf starts. Great way of fighting my first jetlag
<tfheen> jordi: seb128 isn't around
<jordi> I see. Tak.
<jordi> Hey, I have a use for my acquired Norwegian now. :)
<tfheen> it's takk, though. :P
<tfheen> it
<tfheen> argh
<tfheen> it'll be nice to see you around
<fabbione> tfheen: aren't you supposed to be asleep?
<tfheen> fabbione: it's only half past midnight here
<jordi> tfheen: yeah, I'm excited, because in a few hours it's been from "totally discarded" to "I have my e-tickets ready"
<tfheen> jordi: rock!
<jordi> it was a total surprise when the boss said "why not?"
<jordi> and last night, when mark said "take the flight!" hehe
<fabbione> jordi: so you are coming to UdU?
<jordi> fabbione: yeah dude
<tfheen> jordi: cool.
<jordi> last minute decision :)
<fabbione> jordi: ahah cool!
<fabbione> jordi: when are you flying?
<jordi> tomorrow at 2PM I go to Heathrow and then Sydney.
* fabbione will leave in 12 hours
<jordi> I get there at 5AM or something
<jordi> on Monday of course.
<fabbione> jordi: argh i will go via london, but tomorrow morning
<jordi> Tomorrow is Saint Jordi, and it's the first time a day will mostly vanish for me in the calendar. :)
<fabbione> i was really hoping to sly with somebody
<jordi> fabbione: aargh.
<fabbione> sly/fly
<jordi> fabbione: I don't know what I'm going to do so many hours in that plane. Oslo->Amsterdam felt like an eternity already.
<tfheen> Oslo->Amsterdam is only like two hours
<tfheen> or no, it's more like one
<jordi> and a half.
<fabbione> jordi: i have no idea.. my laptop battery doesn't last more than 2 hours...
<fabbione> so i can enjoy ONE movie..
<fabbione> than i am done
<jordi> sorry, it was Amsterdam->Madrid.
<fabbione> for the rest of the 22 hours
<tfheen> fabbione: long flights have in-flight entertainment stuff
<jordi> fabbione: hmm, good thought. I need to get some movie.
<tfheen> so you can watch movies and listen to music in some shitty system there
<fabbione> tfheen: i was more hoping to score a chick :P
<jordi> fabbione: lol
<fabbione> anyway... i need to finish to do some stuff at home
<fabbione> and prepare the laptop
<jordi> now I just need to find my passport.
<fabbione> i will be back later
<jordi> It can't be too hidden, I used it recently for .no
<jordi> do you guys think the exact expiration date of the passport is important?
<jordi> I know the year and the month, not the exact day.
<jordi> I need it for my ETA.
<tfheen> I'd put the correct info in there to be sure
<elmo> yes it is
<elmo> or at least, if it expires < 6 months after you return it's important in the sense that you won't be able to go
<jordi> elmo: it expires in 5 years
<jordi> I renewed it for Oslo last month
<jordi> but I don't remember the exact day.
<cartman> someone broke console-data ?
<jordi> I'll do the ETA thing tonight when I have the passport.
<elmo> COLIN
<jsgotangco> hello
<mdke> still on the question of ftp and ssl, does anyone know what the best solution is? install ftp-ssl and bite the bullet on removing ubuntu-base?
<elmo> mdke: lftp does ssl
<elmo> plain ftp is archaic
<mdke> elmo, is it packaged for ubuntu?
<elmo> eh, yes
<jsgotangco> bite the bullet!
<mdke> elmo, i was told that it is illegal to distribute gpl programs with ssl support
<elmo> mdke: plain gpl, yes
<elmo> gpl with exception, no
<mdke> right
<mdke> so lftp does it, and gftp won't do it?
<elmo> err
<elmo> actually lftp doesn't seem to have the exception.  yay.
<mdke> elmo, that's what i was thinking ;)
<mdke> elmo, but it def. has ssl support built into the package?
<elmo> ah #305160
<elmo> mdke: yes
<mdke> elmo, thanks
<fabbione> elmo: yo
<fabbione> elmo: do you have the power to kick back gtk+2.0 on all arches, now that libtiffxx0 is in main?
<fabbione> elmo: that would unblock a bunch of packages from building
<elmo> hum
<elmo> someone broke wanna-build
<fabbione> i swear it wasn't me :)
<elmo> ah, no they didn't.  I'm just SPECIAL.
<elmo> fabbione: given-back
<mdke> elmo, it is a bit cheeky to ask you more on this, but you don't know a gui ftp+ssl client?
<fabbione> elmo: thanks!
<elmo> mdke: not offhand, no, sorry
<mdke> np
<mdke> thanks
<Lathiat> elmo: man, how are you still awake
<elmo> it's only 1:34
<Lathiat> *only* :P
<Lathiat> im fucked :\ heh
<elmo> god DAMN chmlib
<elmo> a buildd's been stuck building it for over a week
<elmo> I bet one on all 3 arches is
<Lathiat> haha
<Lathiat> wtf is it doing
<Lathiat> got a build loop or something?
<elmo> yah, I think it's looping in configure - not sure how it's avoiding the buildds "idle too long => kill" check
<Lathiat> because its not idling?
<elmo> EXCELLENT
<elmo> 1 buildd => chlib, other 2 => tzconfig inf loop
<elmo> and both jbailey and lamont are on planes.  bah.
<Lathiat> hahaha
<jsgotangco> hehe
<jsgotangco> well time for me to sleep as well for i have a plane to catch in a few hours
<jsgotangco> bye bye
<Lathiat> elmo: sounds like th ekill script needs tweaking :)
<sivang> Hello everybody :-)
<trukulo> hi sivang
<sivang> trukulo: hi, how are you?
<trukulo> tired, all the day working
<trukulo> and tomorrow a wedding :P
<sivang> trukulo: you're getting married?
<trukulo> no, not me, my cousin, but i have to take a plane and fly 2 hours at 6 morning
<trukulo> i'm not as stupid as fabbione 
<trukulo> lol
<sivang> trukulo: ROTFL
<sivang> trukulo: nice, are you at UDU ?
<trukulo> sivang: no, sivang ,i don't work on ubuntu development, i just lurk here, heh
<fabbione> elmo: i found some packages FTBFS for the same reasons on sparc.
<trukulo> fabbione: hi married boy
<sivang> trukulo: well, that's also cool, no prob
<fabbione> elmo: they loop forever in creating some include files... the funny thing is that if you kill the process, the package build successfully
<fabbione> hey trukulo 
<fabbione> elmo: so it seems like that the include is generated properly, but the process never exits
<dieman> spelling ubuntu-desktop as ubuntu-dekstop doesn't work right, aptitude refuses to read my mind.
<trukulo> dieman: have you tried to install aptitude-mind-reader ?
<fabbione> dieman: ubuntu-desktop is a task
<fabbione> not only a package
<fabbione> i think it's something like:
<fabbione> aptitude install ~tubuntu-desktop
<dieman> yeah
<dieman> i was doing ~ubuntu-dekstop
<trukulo> fabbione: you aren't supossed to drink beer at work
<dieman> ~t, rather
<dieman> anyhow, all is much better now
<fabbione> trukulo: uh? i am not at work today
<fabbione> national holidays
<dieman> heh, nice
<trukulo> fabbione: new pope? italians export holidays to other countries?
<trukulo> lol
<fabbione> trukulo: ahha
<trukulo> fabbione: talking bout ratzinger Z , i mean... italians
<trukulo> an italian friend of mine is coming today
<dieman> my next holiday is like may 30th.
<trukulo> i don't have holidays :P i'm a company (all me)
<fabbione> trukulo: yeah Mazinger Z
<trukulo> fabbione: http://www.solisis.net/node/26
<fabbione> ehhe
<trukulo> fabbione: do you think is a good pet for next ubuntu?
<trukulo> lol
<dieman> damn, they had a light rail car derail here
<dieman> luckily with nobody on it
<Burgundavia> dieman, is that really on topic for here?
<dieman> not really
<dieman> is the pope?
<tritium> Wow - running the LiveCD on a dual G5 with widesreen.  It's very nice, save the lack of sound.  :)
<Treenaks> tritium: cool
<tritium> Treenaks, :)
<trukulo> umm, kdelibs-data failing on hoary
<trukulo>  /var/cache/apt/archives/kdelibs-data_4%3a3.4.0-0ubuntu3.1_all.deb
<trukulo> E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1)
<trukulo> bugzilling it
<cartman> trukulo: #kubuntu
<trukulo> cartman: ok
<cartman> The following packages will be REMOVED:
<cartman>   adzapper squid squid-common
<cartman> wtf going on?
<Treenaks> running breezy?
<cartman> yeah
<cartman> something is weird
<sivang> does anybody know if anybody can modify UDU's wiki?
<sivang> (I want to move my LanuchpadIntegration page from the old page)
<jordi> ok, a step nearer .au
<jordi> I found my passport.
<bluefoxicy> Heh, Ubuntu, Kubuntu, next comes U-Mini (for the Mac Mini)
<zyga> hello
<travail101> did linux-wlan-ng make into into the final Hoary LiveCD?
<lunitik> Could someone please fix libebook1.2-3 depends?  (it appears to say it wants libcamel1.2-3, but won't install without libcamel1.2-0 - from universe - being installed)
<lunitik> This has been a bug for about 5 days, most annoying
<blueyed> lunitik, it also wants to deinstall evolution here.
<lunitik> bluefoxicy: that is due to this though... libebook wants libcamel1.2-0, which breaks those depends
<lunitik> blueyed: ^^
<lunitik> (although, it still says it wants libcamel1.2-3, which is kinda strange...)
<blueyed> yep, have not taken a closer look at it. Hoping that it will get fixed in the next days.
<blueyed> Would you like to file a report about it?
<lunitik> I have
<travail101> is there an exhaustive package list for the final hoary liveCD
<travail101> ?
<travail101> Linux-wlan-ng... anyone?
<travail101> who was i talking about this with last time...
<travail101> he did a lot of work on it...
<travail101> but someone else said it probably wouldn't get done in time for the next LiveCD (hoary)
<travail101> welll it's out now... and I would like to know if it made it on or not...
<GheRivero> res
#ubuntu-devel 2005-05-04
<jcole> what do i add to sources.list to get tomcat
<Diablo-D3> hrm
<Diablo-D3> hey guys
<Diablo-D3> stupid question
<Diablo-D3> does ubuntu-desktop include any method of automount by default?
<|QuaD-> Diablo-D3: #ubuntu
* Diablo-D3 is asking from a developers standpoint.
<tortoise> Diablo-D3: using project utopia
<calc> libpam-mount seems to be the way for network fs
* calc is going to be using that at work
<Diablo-D3> I'm thinking along the lines of usb mass storage automounting btw
<Diablo-D3> I've been talking to random users, and it doesnt seem that ubuntu has anything like this at all
<Diablo-D3> atleast, not by default
<mdz-syd> only since about August of last year
<mdz-syd> i.e., before the first release
<calc> Diablo-D3: it usually works automatically
<calc> it does seem to have some buginess about whether it pops up the nautilus window though
<Diablo-D3> so, with a freshly installed and upgraded ubuntu desktop, I should be able to plug in a usb mass storage device and it should be automatically mounted /w sync, and a gnome file manager window should pop up?
<calc> Diablo-D3: yes, barring the bugs i've seen
<Diablo-D3> w00t.
<calc> i haven't fresh installed my box in about 4mo so it may have some upgrade related issues
<Diablo-D3> another stupid question...
<Diablo-D3> is matthew thomas's recent blog entry being taken seriously?
* mode/#ubuntu-devel [+o daniels]  by ChanServ
* mode/#ubuntu-devel [+b *!*diablo-d3@65.99.190.*]  by daniels
* Diablo-D3 was kicked off #ubuntu-devel by daniels (ban evasion)
* mode/#ubuntu-devel [-o daniels]  by daniels
* mode/#ubuntu-devel [+o daniels]  by ChanServ
* mode/#ubuntu-devel [-bb+b *!*diablo-d3@65.99.191.* *!*diablo-d3@65.99.190.* *!*diablo-d3@*]  by daniels
* mode/#ubuntu-devel [-o daniels]  by daniels
<calc> cool i didn't know you could do a -bb+b type line
<daniels> you can put any mode changes together
<daniels> i could've done -o as well
<calc> ah
<dholbach> hey
<jammcq_oz> mdz-syd: hey, you awake ?
<jammcq_oz> ogra: are you here?  whiprish and I are going for breakfast, if anyone wants to come
<jammcq_oz> ok, see ya'll later
<travail101> let me ask again... it's been a few hours....
<travail101> is linux-wlan-ng on the latest LiveCD? did it get done in time? or was it left out...? am I going to have to wait another 6 months to see it on there?
<dholbac1> re
<travail101> re?
<dholbac1> travail101: flew out some minutes before
<jbailey> You talkin' to me? =)
<ogra> hi jbailey, nice ip :)
<tfheen> jbailey: moo!
<jbailey> Now that I'm standing on the bottom of the world, do I have to worry about the blood rushing to my head?
<jbailey> Heya Tollef!
<daniels> jbailey: yo
<jbailey> Mr. Daniel!
<thom> jbailey: good morning sir
<dholbach> hey jbailey 
<jbailey> So far on this trip I've discovered that the Honalulu airport is really boring, and that oranges are really expensive in Sydney.
<jbailey> Heya Thom, Mr. Holbach.
<Evaso> hi guys also hoary is affected by this bugs: http://bugs.debian.org/305846 ?
<Evaso> anybody is in gnome team?
<jbailey> Evaso: We're running a different version of Gnome than Debian is, so there's no way of even guessing whether the same bugs will occur.
<Evaso> jbailey: i tink that this affect also 2.10
<jbailey> If you are able to reproduce the problem, your best bet is to check in bugzilla, and if you don't find it then file the bug.
<Evaso> jbailey: thanks but i want only to try to backport a solution if it was solved in ubuntu without to find my way and rebuild the whell
<jbailey> Ooo!!  The Sipsons.
<ogra> yeah
<Evaso> Ok i duplicate the bug, one for Debian and one for Ubuntu fork also if the problem is the same
<zul> hey
<ogra> hey mdz-syd 
<ogra> :)
<mdz-syd> ogra: hello
<ogra> mdz-syd, already in the hotel ? or are you guys crowding jdubs home ?
<ogra> oh, btw, how do i get a priority assigned to my BO ?
<ogra> F
<Burgundavia> that was an interesting slip
<fabbione> hey guys
<zul> hey fabbione how is it going?
<jbailey> Fabio!
<fabbione> i just woke up.. gotta leave for the airport pretty soon
<zul> heh have a fun flight
<zul> dont go psycho
<ogra> fabbione, have a nice smoke in singapore ;)
<tfheen> fabbione: have a nice trip
<ogra> fabbione, the smoking place is very nice
<fabbione> ehhe ok :)
<jbailey> Does anyone else smell burning toast?
<zul> uh..not really
<fabbione> cya sunday evening
* fabbione heads to sydney
<ogra> fabbione, looking forward to it :)
<ogra> dont fall off the sky
<ogra> jbailey, yup
<jbailey> ogra: Oh good.
<jbailey> ogra: It's the second time today I've smelled it, the first was in the airport, turned out to be a deli.
<jbailey> But I'd be sad if I had a stroke. =)
<ogra> i guess its really coming out o the kitchen....
<jbailey> There's a kitchen here?
<jbailey> Cool.
<ogra> yeah, on the way to the sunny courtyard
<jbailey> Sounds like I should explore more.
<jbailey> Maybe after the Simpsons are done. =)
<ogra> looks like they will run all day on this station
<jbailey> Is that so wrong?
<ogra> no, but it will take its time until they're done :)
<tfheen> blogs are fun ; I've gotten two responses to my e-d-s crack already
<jbailey> Heya Scott.
<Keybuk> heyhey
<Keybuk> oh dear, I appear to have agreed to do a lightning talk
<jbailey> Where do you see that?
<tfheen> Keybuk: on what?
<Keybuk> s3kr1t
<zul> hey Keybuk 
<travail101> anyone in here that knows about what's on the LiveCD?
<travail101> like for instance...
<travail101> did the Linux-wlan-ng driver make it on the latest?
<travail101> or will I need to wait till then next release to see them?
<travail101> or... is there just a site you can poinnt me t with a list of all packages on the 5.04 Hoary LiveCD
<travail101> ?
<zul> if you do dpkg -l on a terminal in the live cd it should give you a pretty good list of whats installed
<zul> night
<travail101> but.,..
<travail101> I want to know before I download the LiveCD
<travail101> as if it doesn't have it
<travail101> I don't need it
<travail101> and I definitely don't want to waste a CD even if I do download it, just to find out it doesn't have it
<jbailey> Use a rewritable. =)
<Lathiat> boot it in qemu :)
* Amaranth wonders if you could mount the ISO and chroot into it
<travail101> ok... I need it because My HD crashed
<travail101> I have no other linux machine handy
<travail101> and I'm on a laptop in Spain
<travail101> limited options
<travail101> but i finally found out in #ubuntu that it didn't make it in the final
<travail101> I know oneof the guys in here a while back was workin on it, but...
<travail101> I guess it wasn't ready in time
<travail101> thanx for the thoughts anyway though
<travail101> I'll use the Gentoo RR4 LiveCD instead... maybe the next Ubuntu will have it :-D
<Lathiat> pff, just get better hardware
<travail101> Money is something a lot of linux users don't have readily available
<travail101> and I really didn't have anybody telling me "hey don't get that crappy Hitachi Deathstar-travel, it's gonna get bad sectors and eat away at the drive till it dies in just 9 months from purchasing it"
<travail101> being in a foreign counrty doesn't help with rectifying the problem either
<travail101> anyway
<travail101> the Prism2 wireless chipset is good hardware on the other hand
<travail101> and fully supported under linux (for what I use it for anyway)
<Lathiat> travail101: i was mostly joking :)
<travail101> I know...
<travail101> but i thought i would clarify
<Lathiat> :)
<travail101> anyway, I'm going to reboot into this RR4 livecd and ditch Knoppix with it's non-firefoxness and general outdatedness
<travail101> bbl, if nothing goes wrong
<Lathiat> tseng: ping
<whip|udu> mdz: are you here in sydney?
<jdub> hey whip|udu 
<whip|udu> hey jdub!
* tfheen got a nice and crackful idea.
<tfheen> we store environment variables in gconf and preload something to load them from there.
<tfheen> so you can have per-process, per-session, per-user and per-system settings.
<tfheen> totally crack, but it should work.
<tfheen> jdub: moo?
<jnc> store anything else in gconf and i will let loose a herd of rabid monkeys on your measuring equipment
<jnc> this includes all forms of rulers be they metric or imperical units
<tfheen> uhm, why?
<jnc> exceptions will NOT be made for anything covered in butter substitutes.
<jnc> why?
<jnc> why you ask
<jnc> because i can. that is why
<jnc> it should work, after all.   
<tfheen> yes, and gconf works fairly well
* tfheen builds his tdb e-d-s addressbook backend
<jdub> tfheen: tdb or ldb?
<tfheen> tdb
<tfheen> ldb is the ldap thing
<tfheen> tdb is the backend which ldb usually uses.
<tfheen> and ldb isn't packaged, it seems
* Treenaks points at seb128
<ningo> http://members.home.nl/saen/Special/zoeken.html
<Treenaks> *mutes sound*
<Burgundavia> ningo, that is not on topic here, please go away
<ningo> Burgundavia, actually Xchat /amsg is network spanning
<Burgundavia> ningo, lovely, that is still spam
<ningo> indeed
<jdub> tfheen: yeah, ldb might be a better choice
<ningo> so be warnend, when i try to sell you laptops :p
<jdub> tfheen: bug jon oxer about packaging for it :)
<tfheen> jdub: I guess so, yeah.
<tfheen> jdub: even tdb will be a lot more comfortable than db, though
<jdub> yeah ;)
<lamont_r> hello jdub
<lamont_r> back in a few
<infinity> lamont_r : Can you respin builds of imagemagick now that libtiffxx0 is in main?
<cartman> anyone knows whats up with squid on breezy?
<cartman> dist-upgrade tries to remove it
<colombus> hello
<colombus> ressource busy or not avaible for totem?
<colombus> hello
<colombus> ressource busy or not avaible for totem?
<colombus> ressource busy or not avaible for totem what does it mean?
<colombus> what woul it be?
<colombus> what is this problem?
<colombus> do someone read me?
<orangehaw> hi, i managed to install dpkg -i linux-image-2.6.12-1-686-smp_2.6.11.90-1_i386.deb along with initrd-tools_0.1.78ubuntu1_all and when rebooting everything is fine. Only thing is that i can't get nvidia driver working. I have the linux-source-2.6.12_2.6.11.90.orig.tar.gz and unpacked it. Then: /sh NVIDIA-Linux-x86-1.0-7167-pkg1.run --kernel-source-path=/usr/src/linux-source-2.6.12-2.6.11.90/
<colombus> hi
<jbailey_> Hey - this channel really does seem to play nothing but Simpsons. =)
<tfheen> hi jeff
<jbailey> Heya Tollef.
<dholbach> hey
<abelli> trulux: ding
<zyga> hello
<sladen> hi zyga 
<tfheen> hi ogra
<ogra> hey tollef
<ogra> already in te hotel ?
<tfheen> no, still in Canberra
<tfheen> coming to Sydney tomorrow afternoon
<ogra> ah, ok...
<cartman> hmm I missed jbailey
<ogra> cartman, he just fell asleep
<cartman> ogra: you are in in .au too for UDU?
<cartman> btw whoever supposed to make gcc-4.0 transtion should read lkml . there is some miscomplation report for kernel
<ogra> cartman, the kernel wont be compiled with 4.0
<cartman> ah how come gcc points to gcc-4.0 here
<cartman> thats breezy
<cartman> hmm I should go back to gcc-3.4 for that too maybe it will fix my MCE problems
<ogra> cartman, everything except the kernel will be 4.0 in breezy
<cartman> yep thats _cool_ 
<cartman> would be cooler if gcc didn't miscompile rather important things
<cartman> kernel,khtml,etc
<tfheen> scary shit.
<tfheen> my tdb backend seems to work
<Robot101> \o/
<tfheen> this means we can have an e-d-s backend that DOESN'T SUCK!
<tfheen> :)
<tfheen> yay me, yay tdb
<Lathiat> tfheen: for what?
<tfheen> for evolution-data-server
<Lathiat> oh
<Lathiat> right
<Lathiat> im doing an ldb backend to gconf
<Lathiat> (which uses tdb)
<tfheen> yay, cool.
<Lathiat> and can also connect to a real ldap server then
<Lathiat> so we kill 2 birds with one stone
<tfheen> I know, I saw tridge demonstrate that yesterday
<Lathiat> to quote a man 'ROCK ON!'
<tfheen> are the devel libs for ldb packaged now?
<Lathiat> tfheen: you at burgmann?
<tfheen> yeah
<tfheen> you too?
<Lathiat> tfheen: nope but i was talking with tridge about doing that today?
<Lathiat> tfheen: yeh im down at the bar
<Lathiat> tfheen: come say hI!
<tfheen> where's the bar?
<tfheen> :)
<Lathiat> bottom floor
<Lathiat> near the vending machine out to the back
<tfheen> oh, ok.
<tfheen> I'll come down
<Lathiat> can hear the blues brothers on
<tfheen> just have to check where the heck my tdb database is saved. :P
<Lathiat> sweet.
<Lathiat> haha
<tfheen> it's there, but I can't find the files. :)
<robertj> has there been any discussion on automounting ntfs drives as ro
<tfheen> Lathiat: I'm coming down now, I guess you'll see me, white shirt.
<Lathiat> ok
<tfheen> Lathiat: I have no idea what you look like, so. :)
<Lathiat> im with a dell laptop
<Lathiat> red shirt
<Lathiat> and not the guy with the white shirt
<Lathiat> :)
<tfheen> oh, that many people down there?
<Lathiat> just me and cef
<tfheen> ok, cool
<Lathiat> the rest buggered off to bed or something
<Lathiat> there was like 8 of us and some random chicks at some point, theyve all gone now
<Amaranth> "Elmo on helium is one of the funniest things known to man."
<\sh> hmmm..
<stuNNed> what is the default dhcp client in ubuntu?  dhcp3-client?
<cartman> stuNNed: yes
<stuNNed> cartman: can you see this: http://uclinux.info/lance/ubuntu/bugs/dhcp-client_ubuntu ?
<stuNNed> or do you get an 404 or something?
<cartman> nope can see
<stuNNed> ok thanks
<stuNNed> I can't cc: whoever I want at bugzilla?
<Burgundavia> who do you want to cc?
<stuNNed> casey@tulane.edu
<stuNNed> is it possible?
<stuNNed> Burgundavia: that is odd that i can't cc: the admin of the dhcp server at my uni i'm having problems with no?
<Burgundavia> I think you can only cc yourself for good reason
<stuNNed> i thought cc was open, oh well, okay, so he'll have to create an account to comment right?
<Burgundavia> yes
<stuNNed> ok thanks
<tfheen> Lathiat: yay, I got it working.  You'll never guess what the problem was. :P
<stuNNed> entered as #10090, thanks cartman and Burgundavia 
<stuNNed> hmmm on my laptop i can select cd burn speed in nautilus but on desktop can't
<nanophase> hi
<nanophase> anyone here who works on the acpi-support package?
<Treenaks> what do you want to know about it
<nanophase> filed a bug today, and if that someone would need me to test, it's faster on irc. in addition I would have an idea as a notebook user.
<nanophase> things that are easier on irc..
<stuNNed> can you guys include galeon in main? 
<stuNNed> seeing that is it very gnome-centric and a powerhouse of a browser imho
<Burgundavia> I thought gnome is shipping epip by default now
<stuNNed> yes but imho epip has way locked down preferences as dictated by what proper UI should be
<Burgundavia> galeon is already in universe, what advantage do you gain by having it in main?
<crimsun> stuNNed: galeon was replaced by epiphany some time ago
<crimsun> d'oh, Burgundavia already said as much
<stuNNed> epip is too simple and the whole idea of extensions is just cr*p imho
<Burgundavia> stuNNed, did you see my question?
<stuNNed> Burgundavia: imho galeon should replace epip as gnome's default browser, the gain would be galeon would be default for users who want a gnome browser over something like epip
<Burgundavia> ok, convince the gnome devs of that
<Burgundavia> ubuntu is not the place for such a discussion
<Burgundavia> the browser is available, in universe
<stuNNed> ok thanks :)
<Burgundavia> np
<stuNNed> thanks for including it in universe all the same :)
<\sh> ok..python is nice..pyqt is also nice...replacing knyaptic with pynaptiq ;)
<zyga> hello
#ubuntu-devel 2005-05-05
<nanophase> bye
<Lathiat> tfheen: what was it :)
<stuNNed> why is galeon built against seamonkey and not the current firefox?
<stuNNed> in ubuntu.
<moyogo> stuNNed: it probably hasn't been updated in a while
<stuNNed> moyogo: afaik 1.3.20 came out of recent
<moyogo> is there a browser based on gtkhtml instead?
<tseng> anyone online at the vibe?
<tfheen> hi tseng
<tfheen> (no, I'm not)
<tseng> heh.
<tseng> someone set up an ubuntu essid, i cant get on it
<tseng> had to go sniffing around
<koke> tseng: I'm using "NETGEAR"
<koke> dholbach is on the lounge :D
<tfheen> I'm going to hunt for a bit of breakfast now.
<tfheen> *gone*
<mdz_> mako: ping
<tfheen> mdz_: he'll be around in a sec, I think
<tfheen> we're leaving for SYD now; see you around in a few hours.
<siimo> hi is ubuntu breezy going to be based on gcc 4 ? 
<ogra> wohooo, feels like network again :)
<Lathiat> ogra: hrm?
<bob2> ogra: you at the hotel?
<zul> hey
<ogra> bob2, yeah
<bob2> cool
<bob2> nice hotel?
<ogra> yep, nice aircondition....pool on the roof :)
<tseng> its rather nice
<Lathiat> so is mono being worked on this week tseng? :)
* Lathiat wishes he could make it to UDU
<tseng> no.
<Lathiat> im currently in canberra, not far away, leaving to perth tonight but 
<tseng> nothing development directly is being worked on this week
<ogra> Lathiat, there is only discussion and speccing, no time for hacking
<Lathiat> rightio
<Lathiat> i got the impression there would be a bit
<tseng> im going to blog it, because i get 3 or 4 people ask me a day
<Lathiat> heh
<bluefoxicy> tseng:  hi
<bluefoxicy> tseng:  my theme of choice today:  http://usrbac.sourceforge.net/misc/ss_ubuntu_lone-ice.png  :)
<jubei> Hello. Does ubuntu support evdev input for the mouse?
<tseng> bluefoxicy: krack
<jnc> jubei: i don't see why it wouldn't
<jnc> on a technical level anyways
<jubei> cool, talking about it in #ubuntu
<jubei> I cant get it to work =(
<jnc> you're not using the proper mind meld technique
<jubei> HEHE
<jubei> I posted some details here http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=29341
<jnc> i'm camping out for someone to take pity and help fix OO.org printing with amd64 platform
<jnc> it's way bigger than my tiny little  brain is capable of dealing with
<jubei> ah ok. What do you do when you have a tricky prob that no-one seems to have the answer for?
<jubei> Just ask periodically?
<jnc> jubei: you don't want my answer on this one, trust me buddy
<jubei> HEH
<dholbach> hey!
<milli> lamont__r: Ah, so you made it...
<lamont__r> yeah
<Treenaks> lamont_downunder?
<lamont_r> yeah
<dholbach> hey doko
<ogra> welccome big master doko !
<Riddell> ogra: http://jriddell.org/photos/2004-04-24-mvo-orga.jpg
* daniels yawns.
<jdub> hey Riddell 
<daniels> hooray for wireless in rooms
<dholbach> hey daniels 
* Riddell fails to spot jdub 
<dholbach> daniels: it gets charged on YOUR room
<daniels> dholbach: indeed
<dholbach> ok... if you already know: "hooray for mr. big wallet" ;-p
<jdub> Riddell: meeting atm, will be down soon :)
<daniels> heh
<GheRivero> res
<zyga> hello
<zyga> libcamel1.2-dev_1.2.2-2_amd64.deb and libcamel1.2-3 both contain /usr/lib/evolution-data-server-1.2/camel-providers/libcamelgroupwise.la
<HiddenWolf> Anyone here good with Alsa?
<Robot101> there are only about 2 people I've ever spoken to who do
<Robot101> *are, even
<Robot101> (one of them was Takashi Iwai)
<cartman> what goes over UDU?
<tseng> cartman: specifying goals for breezy
<cartman> tseng: cheers
<locomorto> omg
<cartman> tseng: but I mean _right now_
<locomorto> there is actually serveral small convos in here!
<locomorto> its amazing
<tseng> cartman: right now, we just had dinner, and got kicked out of the conference room
<cartman> tseng: ok :)
<tseng> cartman: chilling in some kind of lobby/lounge
<tseng> not much :)
<cartman> tseng: any idea if there will be live casts tomorrow?
<tseng> no
<tseng> the bandwidth situation here is pretty rough just for our usage
<cartman> ok
<cartman> :/
<ogra> hey pitti
<pitti> Hi everybody
<zyga> hello pitti 
<bytee> is anyone at UbuntuDownUnder here?
<mpt> yep
<bytee> and is a delegate? i'm just curious about some hotel question things
* bytee pokes jdub
<mpt> delegate?
<bytee> http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDownUnder/Delegates
<mpt> At least mako and ogra and pitti are also here
<bytee> ah, okay. so the hotel thing, do we all check into a room or is it shared or something? also, attire - its pretty warm in Melb today, dont feel like being in jeans all week, so figure some shorts might be appropriate. is that okay?
* bytee gets all that from stupid questions #101
<pitti> bytee: you just check in at the counter, all participants are registered there
<pitti> bytee: short pants will be fine, but bring some long ones for the evening
<bytee> pitti: oh cool. so see you tomorrow then :)
<bytee> i'm still doing my post-LCA washup now. so its time to repack soon
<bytee> pitti: oh yeah, is there Internet access at the hotel? (presumably yes, since you're on now)
<ogra> pitti, where the hell are you guys ? i thought everybody was supposed to go upstairs ...
<dholbach> ogra: 2nd floor
<pitti> ogra: 2nd floor, conf room
<mpt> There's approximately three of us here
<mpt> It's a wild coding party
<Treenaks> no mao ???
<bytee> well, thanks for answering my silly queries mpt and pitti. this is my first ubuntu meeting thing, so i guess its just playing safe ;)
<seb128> pitti, pong
<pitti> thanks seb128 
<seb128> you're welcome :)
<ogra> does anybody know what this site is about ? 
<ogra> http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDownUnder/Delegates
<ogra> there is no text on it, only names...
<hypatia> seems to be a convienient list of people "officially" there.
<ogra> hypatia, i know, i'm on it....
<hypatia> you can click on them and find out what they're being assigned at their BOFs.
<ogra> but a little explanation what its about would be nice
<Robot101> how are all of these BOFs ever going to fit? :)
<\sh> "This BoF will brainstorm about ways that we can help turn the desire to help into a productive relationship with the Ubuntu community. We will aim to walk out with an outline or draft of a new Partcipate page."
<\sh> lol
<\sh> "the desire to help"
<nanophase> hi
<melodie> hello all :)
<melodie> I'd need an info for a doc I'm helping about
<melodie> a detail
<melodie> is there an option for resizing ntfs with partan ? 
<melodie> I'm installing on a old laptop I bought yesterday
<melodie> to make tests
<melodie> and I don't find something like such an option
<melodie> what abot JFS and XFS file systems if someone knows ?
<melodie> about :)
<melodie> partman: other fault sorry
<melodie> hi :)
<melodie> I'm looking for an install option I never read about with partman
<trygvebw> Hi, in which package is dh_make?
<cartman> debhelper: /usr/bin/dh_makeshlibs
<cartman> trygvebw: ^^
<trygvebw> thanks :)
<nanophase> hmm reinstalled hoary today. libgcc is a 4.0pre package, may be a mistake? all other gcc packages installed are 3.3
<cartman> nanophase: no afaik. thats ok
<burner> anyone here in charge of breezy's universe/multiverse?
<zyga> burner: ask in ubintu-motu
<burner> aww
<burner> thank you
<Zomb> hi
<Zomb> what is your policy for chaning the Maintainer: field of a package?
<winkle> does debian have a policy for this?
<Zomb> I don't think so but modifying Debian packages is your (Canonical) business so I assume there is one
<winkle> ubuntu doesn't change the Maintainer field afaik
<Zomb> okay. And how can I reach the Ubuntu maintainer with a generic address? pkgname@packages.ubuntu.com?
<Zomb> I need something to forward the typical Ubuntu bugs I do not want to deal with
<abelli> ciao
<melodie> does someone know if ntfsresize v14.9
<melodie> ntfsresize v1.9.4 belongs to ntfstools or ntfstools-udeb package ?
<cholo> melodie: if it's the same as in debian, udeb packages are modules for the installer, so if you already have an installed system, I'd say what you need is ntftools
<GheRivero> res
<melodie> cholo: hello :)
<melodie> I put a bug report here:
<melodie> https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/post_bug.cgi
#ubuntu-devel 2005-05-06
<tseng> hi tfheen 
<tfheen> hi tseng
<lsuactiafner> anyone here got an idea as to how i can compile a 32bit mplayer binary so i can use the win32 codecs to play wmv files?
<pitti> guys: does anybody of you know about bluetooth? Neither Thom nor I do, so we desperately need some technical support in today's BoF
<cc> pitti: i sort of fiddle with bluez, but we recently broke it in rawhide; i'd be glad to come along to the BoF
<pitti> cc: that'd rock, thanks
<cc> pitti: but i dont know how bluetooth support in debian/ubuntu is like ;-) i'll learn i'm sure
<pitti> cc: it will already help to have sb who knows use cases and some general stuff
<lsuactiafner> anyone here know how to cross compile 32bit binaries on a 64bit system? need to make mplayer use the wmv codecs that aint 64bit, realise i asked like 5 mins ago but need sleep now
<tfheen> lsuactiafner: the easiest way to do it is to compile on ia32, but you can also use gcc-3.4 and use -m32
<lsuactiafner> thanks, going to try it along with a chrooted 32bit environment
<lsuactiafner> 64bit mplayer aint of any use if it cant play wma files, there should be a mplayer64 binary and mplayer32 available to 64bit users
<lsuactiafner> seems its going to work
<schweeb> lsuactiafner: pretty sure all the libraries that it is compiled against have to be 32bit as well... so your chroot is probably your best option
<lsuactiafner> yeh, didnt know about chroot
<lsuactiafner> very nice
<lsuactiafner> compiling mplayer as if for slackware atm it seems
<schweeb> hah
<lsuactiafner> hope i can execute the binary somehow to play wmv files
<lsuactiafner> would i need to chroot i suppose to use this binary?
<lsuactiafner> hmm static...
<lsuactiafner> should try that
<schweeb> yea, static compilation should do it
<schweeb> (no direct experience though)
<lsuactiafner> yeh same, am basically a slackware user used to having many libs and development tools on my pc
<tfheen> lsuactiafner: we can
<lsuactiafner> at first when i ran ubuntu i was like no way no gcc...
<tfheen> we can't ship the proprietary codecs anyhow
<lsuactiafner> yeh, but there should be an easy way so anybody can run wmv files.. 
<schweeb> hopefully you discovered apt-get ?
<lsuactiafner> like a warning 'continue if you dont give a hell option'
<lsuactiafner> yeh found apt-get
<schweeb> there may be something on the wiki for 64bit
<tfheen> lsuactiafner: _we_ can't ship them.  We'd be legally liable and an easy target.
<schweeb> look on the wiki, there's the marillat sources, which are 32bit
<lsuactiafner> dont ship em, but give the user intruction how to get the codecs ect easily? wont that be more legal?
<schweeb> they have mplayer in 32bit and the codecs
<lsuactiafner> i got from mplayerhq 
<schweeb> lsuactiafner: http://wiki.ubuntulinux.org/RestrictedFormats
<schweeb> basically, you're gonna wanna make a 32bit ubuntu install in a chroot, and run mplayer from there...
<schweeb> which, you can use debootstrap to do
<lsuactiafner> ah ok maybe i should read more
<lsuactiafner> i got a 32bit slackware install already, might be lucky and have it work
<lsuactiafner> W: GPG error: ftp://ftp.nerim.net unstable Release: The following signatures couldn't be verified because the public key is not
<lsuactiafner> available: NO_PUBKEY 07DC563D1F41B907
<lsuactiafner> http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/AptAuthenticationInstructionsForHoary followed those instructions
<luis_> is there a udu channel somewhere?
<robertj> are you Louis Villa?
<toresbe> "udu"?
<robertj> ubuntu down udner
<toresbe> aha
<robertj> err under
<luis_> robertj: luis villa, yes
* robertj smacks himself
<robertj> have you checked the udu wiki?
<robertj> I just did and didn't come up with anything
<luis_> I have not
<cc> luis_: that is probably well worthwhile to have; and also, someone better talk to lilo (freenode network) to not get annoyed with intern146.lnk.telstra.net
<robertj> AFAIK all the past stuff has occured here since the name was finalized
<Burgundavia> mpt, have looked at the latest stuff from gnome-power?
<mpt> Burgundavia: What's gnome-power? (i.e., no)
<Burgundavia> mpt, http://gnome-power.sourceforge.net/
<Burgundavia> mpt, the screenshots are old
<Burgundavia> mpt, I will dig up the link for the new ones in a sec
<robertj> haha, I love mubuntu
<robertj> just the name, the concept slightly disturbes me
<Burgundavia> robertj, mubuntu?
<lsuactiafner> lol
<lsuactiafner> rofl
<thom> (tiny ubuntu)
<lsuactiafner> how big is it?
<Keybuk> buntu
<robertj> keybuk: thanks, I was looking for that char ;)
<Keybuk> (my god, that's got an obscure compose map)
<Keybuk> Compose-u-/
<robertj> Keybuk: there is a classical greek input method for gnome
<robertj> ;)
<robertj> im-classical-greek
<robertj> regardless though
<robertj> the thought that we are far enough from sid to need to do special mods for embedded use is kinda scary, isn't it?
<robertj> and I don't believe that it's really true either
<mpt> Burgundavia: Are there any ubuntu-doc-ers at all at UDU?
<hypatia> mpt: I'm there, and so is Jerome Gotangco
<hypatia> I'm only here today though.
<Burgundavia> mpt, froud and myself are not there. I don't knwo about jeffsch
<hypatia> jeffsch doesn't show up on the attendees list.
<Burgundavia> then i would say no
<lsuactiafner> ok night ppl 
<mpt> dang
<Burgundavia> indeed, I would like to enjoy the aussie sun
<Burgundavia> I don't think froud could get the time away
<mpt> Well, we just could have done with some ubuntu-doc input for the Rosetta BoFs
<thom> i doubt significantly we'll see any of the aussie sun
<tfheen> thom: we can spec stuff outside?
<Burgundavia> pictures of lca show sun
<tfheen> the x40 is fine even in direct sunlight
<Burgundavia> other, inferior laptops may fail though
<hypatia> Burgundavia: alas, it is not penetrating the vibe hotel.
<hypatia> mpt: Well, I suppose I can sit in on launchpad bofs. Would that be useful?
<hypatia> I'm not sure there's a lot I can say about documentation compared to say, froud...
<hypatia> but since he isn't here...
<Burgundavia> hypatia, yes, make them see the docteam light
<mpt> hypatia: yes please
<hypatia> mpt: I can come up now if you like.
<mpt> hypatia: where are you now?
<hypatia> mpt: I'm downstairs in the ubuntu one.
<mpt> hypatia: Well there's Rosetta1.0 at 2.30pm
<hypatia> mpt: OK, I'll be there.
<mpt> Maybe you want to talk to carlos or SteveA about exactly when ubuntu-doc stuff can be scheduled
<luis_> I have a tiny bit of sunlight over here in the corner behind you, mpt
<luis_> but I'm going to guard it jealously
<hypatia> mpt: I'll get spiv to introduce me in the next break I guess.
<carlos> hypatia: the ubuntu-doc thing is not scheduled yet
<hypatia> carlos: what do you want from it?
<Burgundavia> so how many of you are violating the 5m rule?
<carlos> hypatia: are you an ubuntu-doc member?
<carlos> I was told that no one from the team is able to attend this conference
<carlos> hypatia: we will talk about the way to integrate their workflood needs into Rosetta
<hypatia> none of the major documentation authors are here.
<Burgundavia> carlos, you were speaking with mdke, who is not their
<carlos> Burgundavia: I know
<Burgundavia> but jstangco may have some idea about that
<Burgundavia> and he is there
<hypatia> yeah, jstangco is better than I am for that.
<carlos> Burgundavia: but he (mdke) told me that no one from the team can come
<hypatia> I will probably attend at least to give feedback to the ubuntu-doc list though.
<carlos> I suppose any other member is aware of the team needs, right?
<ajmitch_> hey this is jsgotangco
<carlos> hypatia: ok
<ajmitch_> im here but my laptop cant connect am with ajmitch
<hypatia> ajmitch_: where are you?
<ajmitch_> here at mdz's session
<ajmitch_> im the im the only asian guy here so im pretty spotable (jsgotangco)
<mdke> carlos, you need anything?
<carlos> mdke: not atm, thanks
<mdke> k
<mdke> just saw highlights
<carlos> will tell you when the bof is scheduled
<mdke> carlos, i'm not gonna be around for about 16 hours now... :/
<carlos> don't worry, I think it will not be scheduled until tomorrow
<mdke> cool
<mdke> anyhow i may not be able to help much
<mdke> ok cya i'm off to bed
<hypatia> night
<mdke> :)
<mdke> have fun y'all
<carlos> mdke: night
<thom> BEAGLE4EVAH! ;-)
<robertj> thom: yeesh, what's got you riled up ;)
<bob2> fabbione: how much do you know about sparc porting?
<fabbione> bob2: it depends.. we have hoary and brezzy almost built on sparc
<bob2> fabbione: (baz is ftbfs due to the test suite on sparc and only sparc, and runs fine if you gdb/strace it)
<tfheen> robertj: we're just cranking up the crack level here at the conference.
<fabbione> bob2: baz is FTBFS because of gcc-4. i already told lifeless about the fix
<robertj> hehe
<bob2> fabbione: oh, no, this is in Debian with gcc 3.2
<robertj> btw, is there an eta for beagle in universe?
<bob2> er, 3.3
<thom> robertj: needs new mono first
<bob2> robertj: crimsum said post-udu, afaik
<thom> robertj: and new kernel
<tfheen> robertj: post-UDU, I think.  tseng should know more, but he has his laptop closed.
<fabbione> bob2: meh.. i didn't check the FTBFS
<koke> moving :)
<bob2> fabbione: I got clint to have a look at it, and all he found is that it works if you try to gdb or strace it...does that sound like a familiar bug class to you?
<mpt> jordi!
<jordi> mpt: Matt!
<luis_> too late
<luis_> :)
<mpt> jordi: Yeah, we could have done with you up here for the LP1.0 BoF
<mpt> jordi: Will you be at the Rosetta 1.0 one?
<ajmitch_> jordi!
<mpt> ogra, where are you now?
<ajmitch_> ogra is in sublime1
<jordi> mpt: ah, damn it. I'm at edubuntu
<jordi> mpt: anything I can do now?
<mpt> jordi: you mean you're at edubuntu now, or at 2.30?
<jordi> mpt: I should be in that one yes, when is it?
<jordi> I'm at edubuntu right now
<mpt> 2.30
<mpt> ok, see you there
<jordi> ok, I'll be there.
<mpt> I'll be wandering between Rosetta 1.0 and Malone 1.0 probably
* mpt goes downstairs to find ogra
<jordi> ajmitch_: yeah dude we need to meet somehow :)
<mpt> Yeah, where's that kiwi ajmitch_ fellow
<ajmitch_> sitting beside ogra
<mpt> ok, just got to wait for baz to finish
<mpt> come on baz
<jordi> damn it
* robitaille wishes I wasn't 10,000+ kms from Sydney this week...
<Lathiat> as do i
<Lathiat> well i think im more liek 5000
* ctd doesn't mind being 0cm away
<robitaille> hopefully the next Ubuntu meeting will have live video feeds
* Lathiat whacks ctd
<ctd> I beleive canonical are paying per-megabyte on this connection
<hypatia> yeah they are.
<Lathiat> ctd: ouch
<Lathiat> how much per megabyte?
<Lathiat> cant be as much as i pay at uni
<hypatia> I think they got a discount, but the DEFAULT charge from this hotel is 1c/kilbyte!
<tfheen> hi Lathiat 
<hypatia> kilobyte
<Lathiat> (which is 4c)
<Lathiat> tfheen: hey :)
<tfheen> hypatia: yeah, it's totally crackful, IMHO
<Lathiat> hypatia: wtf my phones gprs is cheaper than that, that cant be right.
<hypatia> Lathiat: 1c/kb, capped at $30/50MB per day.
<Lathiat> ouch
<hypatia> So if you use the full 50MB it's cheaper.
<Lathiat> talk about making money
<hypatia> Now I assume Canonical is getting some kind of discount on that.
<Lathiat> cus 50MB is $512 worth :)
<Lathiat> what speed is the connection?
<hypatia> Apparently all the hotels were very much "oh, wireless...um, yeah, in six months from now, we're totally going to have it!
<Lathiat> i can do 500MB for $99 on my *phone* anywhere, at 384kbps
<daniels> we do get somewhat of a discount on that -- we have a given amount of data to use over the entire week
<daniels> where that given amount is rather trivially small
<Lathiat> heh
<luis_> glad I leave the country on wednesday
<luis_> since if you burn the hotel down when the net gets cut off
<luis_> still having my stuff in the hotel would be bad
* Lathiat grins
<tfheen> daniels: so we'll have used all the bandwidth in Australia by wednesday, then?
<Lathiat> i just got my connection upgraded to 1.5mbit
* ctd stops twenty btdownloadcurses processes.
<Lathiat> i think if i was still on 512kbit after LCA i'd die of malbandwidth or something :)
<ctd> nah, i'm only ssh and web'ing
<tseng> ssh -C for the win
<Lathiat> yeh -C helps alot when im using ssh on my phone
<ctd> yes.
<carlos> hypatia: where are you atm?
<Lathiat> so i saw the veronica mars episode with the ubuntu reference, amusign :)
<Lathiat> or should i say, you-bunt-ooh reference
<cc> Lathiat: ssh on the phone ?
<Lathiat> cc: well i use it on my laptop
<daniels> tfheen: itym tuesday
<Lathiat> over bluetooth to my phone over gprs
<Lathiat> altho its actually wcdma or something cus it uses the 3G stuff as opposed to GSM stuff
<hypatia> So, if the next conference is outside North America/parts of western Europe, I really don't like the chances of streaming video ;)
<Lathiat> wel
<Lathiat> its just the shitty hotel
<Lathiat> at linux.conf.au in canberra we had plenty of bandwidth
<tseng> i keep loosing my link every few minutes
<hypatia> carlos: I'm up at SoftwareFreedomDay
<ctd> yeah, but that was donated and all
<tfheen> Lathiat: it was slow, though.
<Lathiat> tfheen: no that was just the shithouse wireless
<ctd> tfheen: Only at leechy times.
<Lathiat> if you plugged into wired it was fine, or used wireless when not too many other people were arround
<Lathiat> i was pulling 1.4M/s from burgmann
* ctd labels Lathiat a leechx0r.
<Lathiat> ctd: even tho it was donated
<Lathiat> it hardly cost 1c/kbyte :)
<Lathiat> hopefully within a year or two bandwidht at uni will cost f**k all
<Lathiat> 3.5c/mbyte still hurts
<ctd> data doesn't really cost anything
<ctd> it's just to deterr leechers.
<carlos> hypatia: ok. I think you should attend http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/RosettaOneDotZero to give your team needs from Rosetta.. (it's after lunch)
<ctd> (woo, I can speel)
<cc> Lathiat: well, my 3 phone requires a cable thing. gah
<Lathiat> cc: i can do that too, having bt is nice
<Lathiat> at least my phone is a standard mini-a usb cable
<Lathiat> sony ericcson z1010, woo :)
<Lathiat> cept canberra doesn't have a drop of three coverage, bastards.
<Lathiat> i was hoping to try a video call back to perth
<cc> Lathiat: nifty; my bluetooth optarse phone costs too much
<ctd> how much is data on 3?
<ctd> optarse charge me 2.2c/kb on weekdays and 1.1c/kb on weekends for GPRS.
<Lathiat> 0.4c/kb all the time
<Lathiat> then there are various data caps that make it cheaper
<Lathiat> the biggest is 500MB for $99
<ctd> that's reasonabel
<ctd> reasonable*
<Lathiat> vodafone have unlimited for $49
<Lathiat> no idea if 'fair use' aplplies
<Lathiat> the thing is you get 384kbps from three
<Lathiat> and 200ms rtt
<Lathiat> and you get like 56kbps and 1s rtt from most other providers
<GoneBoB> yeah but three you also get a compulsory molesting
<Lathiat> GoneBoB: eh?
<GoneBoB> they have some questionable business practises etc etc
<GoneBoB> their product and prices though aren't too bad
<Lathiat> dear god
<Lathiat> there website now contains the terms 'fully sik'
<GoneBoB> case in point :)
<GoneBoB> primarily marketed to people who can't afford it and don't need it
<GoneBoB> I know someone who racked up a $1000 monthly bill
<Lathiat> so my ubuntu has stopped recognising usb-storage and firewire-storage stuff, cant figure out why doh
<Lathiat> GoneBoB: heh
<Lathiat> GoneBoB: yeh but like, wha tbusiness isn't
<ctd> Lathiat: sik mate, sik.
<GoneBoB> yeah, just three is more so
<Lathiat> ctd: FULLYYYY
<ctd> Lathiat: subwoofer
<GoneBoB> is hotplug still running?
<Lathiat> hmm, there are not any hotplug processes
<Lathiat> like the usb-storage driver is loaded, it prints otu the drive info
<Lathiat> just never creates a device or reads its partition table
<ctd> Lathiat: modprobe sd_mod
<Lathiat> right
<Lathiat> i'll try that, bbs
* ctd assumes Lathiat has plunged into breezy
<Lathiat> ctd: yuh
<Lathiat> i pent part of yesterday downgrading a few packages so mono adn evolution could work/be installable :)
<Lathiat> the problem isnt so much breezy as it is linux.conf.au and UDU :)
<Lathiat> ctd: woo
<hypatia> ajmitch_: are you coming to Rosetta One Point Zero?
<hypatia> or maybe I'm asking the wrong person now.
<ctd> anyone know if there's anything I can test vga-out on around the place?
<Lathiat> ah
<Lathiat> so yo uguys are on a telstra link
<Lathiat> no wonder theyre paying pert megabyte :)
<ctd> who knows
<Lathiat> 12:39 -!- seb128 [~seb@intern146.lnk.telstra.net]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
<Lathiat> 12:37 -!- jamesh [~james@intern146.lnk.telstra.net]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
<Lathiat> 12:34 -!- pitti [~pitti@intern146.lnk.telstra.net]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
<Lathiat> so im assuming :)
<ctd> yeah, i know it's a telstra link.. ;)
<ctd> I'm on the thing.
<ctd> But who knows the whole charging thing.
<cc> daniels: can i just make a quick comment wrt USplash? maybe you want to scrap the idea (we're dropping rhgb too), because you might find that gdm-early-login makes more sense than a bootsplash screen (i'd like to come to the BOF, but i'd be at another one i reckon, so please keep that in mind)
<Burgundavia> anybody in rosetta 1.0 bof?
<jamesh> Lathiat: it's more expensive than telstra charges
<Burgundavia> nev mind
<thom> cc: you're dropping rhgb entirely accross the board?
<cc> thom: yes, we are; at least thats the plan before FC-4
<thom> wow
<cc> thom: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=151952
<thom> thanks
<cc> thom: so i'd reconsider if i were you.... 
<Lathiat> jamesh: i know :)
<cc> in fact, rhgb causes more issues to some degree... esp with mga and i810 now, we're finding that consoles don't show up anymore the moment X starts
<cc> so even an init 3 doesn't work, because rhgb started up... 
<Lathiat> does anyone know if its possible to get vesafb into a 1680x1050 mode?
<ctd> everything is possible
<fabbione> thom?
<fabbione> anybody close to thom that can pping him?
<hypatia> I will try.
<thom> fabbione: eh?
<fabbione> thom: do we use readhaed on the liveCD?
<thom> fabbione: yes
<fabbione> thanks
<thom> (or so it appears, just had a look at a livecd)
<fabbione> do we tune what needs to be readead for the livecd?
<thom> not afaik
<fabbione> ok thanks
<thom> we may be better off not RAing at all, not sure
<sladen> Lathiat: yes, it is possible to use VESA to select weird/high video modes, but they are custom and the mode specific to that machine.  You must proble the available modes
<sladen> probe
<Lathiat> sladen: ah right, how do i do that?
<Lathiat> sladen: or where can i find docs, etc?
<tfheen> I think you can pass vga=ask to the kernel on boot
<tfheen> hm
<tfheen> noe, that's something else.
<tfheen> hi Simira
<Simira> mornin
<Simira> *yawns*
<tfheen> nah, post-lunch already.
<Simira> eeeaaarly morning, you mean...
<tfheen> for you slack norwegians, yeah.. :P
<Simira> :p
<daniels> cc: righto, I'll bring it up, but I think people want it anyway.  cheers.
<ogra> Simira, germany isnt even up :(
* ogra is envious on tfheen and simira
<Simira> ogra: I guess. :-) I just arrived by the morning train, so that's why I'm up this early.
<tfheen> ogra: Simira is in CEST
<tfheen> she's just early up
<Simira> and the stores aren't open yet, either, so there's no breakfast
<ogra> my susus isnt even here....guess she's asleep....
<cc> thom: ack. tell pitti i haven't shown up at the bluetooth thingo because i just finished some editing stuff
<Lathiat> man im so missing out
<Burgundavia> tell me about it
<Lathiat> all these talks i want to be at because i have stuf to contribute
<Lathiat> d'oh
<cartman> jbailey: morning!
<cartman> jbailey: <waiting for this for days> thanks for glibc update!
<jbailey> cartman: *lol* It's working for you?
<cartman> jbailey: yeah, appreciated greatly :)
<jbailey> Cool.  I didn't have time to do much testing of it, glad it works for you.
<cartman> how is UDU going?
<jbailey> Good, busy.
<cartman> cool
<Lathiat> you didnt do much testing of a glibc update?:>
<lamont_r> Lathiat: I expect that means he only spent 2 days testing, instead of 7
<cartman> Lathiat: thats why there are users ;P
<cartman> to test stuff
<Lathiat> cartman: you wont have any users if you botch a libc upgrade :>
<cartman> lamont_r: btw I got a bug for you a small one in case you have some time
<cartman> Lathiat: :)
<Lathiat> and i feel sorry for the maintainers of things like libc, i really do :)
<lamont_r> cartman: in what package?
<cartman> lamont_r: console-data
<jbailey> lamont_r: Are you calling me obsessive compulsive again? =)
<cartman> Lathiat: true...
<lamont_r> jbailey: I'm calling you thurough.
* jbailey twitches.
<lamont_r> cartman: console-data isn't one that I've particularly messed with much over time...
<lamont_r> cartman: best path would be to just file a bug - not really where I could do much right now.
<cartman> lamont_r: argh thats the wrong one.
<cartman> yours is about util-linux :)
<lamont_r> heh
<cartman> and yeah its reported already
<lamont_r> cool
<cartman> https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=9892
<cartman> I dont knows how S<foo> is selected so I couldn't possibly add a patch :/
<lamont_r> update-rc<mumble>
<lamont_r> I think
<lamont_r> update-init.d?
<Lathiat> update-rc.d
<cartman> no I mean how is it decided for a pack?
<lamont_r> update-rc.d
* lamont_r is still debating whether that solution is the right thing to do or not... I figure I'll upload it sometime in the not-too-distant timeframe
<cartman> lamont_r: I could swap init numbers of module-init-tools & hwclockfirst.sh
<cartman> would that be accepted?
<lamont_r> cartman: given that hwclockfirst.sh went to pains to run before modutils, I want to understand it before I change it.
<lamont_r> the fix is trivial.. the thinking behind it is not
<cartman> lamont_r: okies
<ctd> is there anyone in the building familiar with suspend on x86v laptops?
<tfheen> ctd: mjg59, aka matthew garret
<tfheen> +t
<tfheen> he's in sublime1 atm.
<tfheen> leading a bof
<ctd> right
<tseng> he's running for pope
<Lathiat> savannah.nongnu.org ues anonymous cvs over ssh, evil.
<tfheen> Lathiat: nicey.
<i386> Lathiat, lol
<tfheen> I use that for my dotfiles.
<i386> is there a point to that?
* tseng too
<Lathiat> not using the shitbox known as pserver?
<i386> anon cvs OVER ssh
<Lathiat> i386: ?
<i386> never be minded
<i386> Lathiat, Ycros got a job at my workies
<ctd> it'd be nice if he could visit the installfest when he's not running for the pope or leading a bof
<i386> starts tomorrow
<tfheen> Lathiat: it means you can trust the integrity of the connection after the initial checkout.
<Lathiat> thats a good point
<jbailey> Lathiat: I was one of the folks who co-wrote the bit for full disclosure on the savannah hack.  
<jbailey> Lathiat: pserver bad.  anonymous cvs over ssh good.
<tfheen> heh
<tfheen> jbailey: actually, the whole CVS codebase makes you cry.
<Lathiat> my laptop seems to be running dog slow lately
<Lathiat> i wonder if its the nv open source driver or smeothing
<Lathiat> tho that cant really make it sucks in general that much id ont think
<Lathiat> maybe its ricerfs
<jbailey> tfheen: The CVS developers make me want to cry.  The problem with the pserver exploit is that the developers *knew* about it, and claimed it wasn't interesting because it was documented in the release notes that any user could create a root exploit.
<tfheen> jbailey: pserver as root bad.
<jbailey> tfheen: Doesn't need to be, IIRC.
<tfheen> jbailey: if you want it to be able to suid, it does
<jbailey> Right.  That's what it was.
<cartman> so we could just give security advisories and not fix bugs themselves :)
<Lathiat> heh
<tfheen> which you really don't need if you change the lock directory and only allow checkout over pserver.
<jbailey> User with write privs drops a script in place.  anoncvs user does something that causes exploit in script, since that script is then run as root.
<jbailey> lamont_r: "We appologise for the inconvenience" - God's last message to his creation.
<lamont_r> jbailey: that's japanese for "tough luck"
<Treenaks> Unfrgiven: please decide if you want to stay or not..
<Treenaks> Unfrgiven: stop joining & quitting
<Unfrgiven> Treenaks: sorry.... tryin to get bloody irssi to auto send the nickserv identify! it aint workin
<Unfrgiven> Treenaks: only one way to test isnt there.... :(
<tfheen> Unfrgiven: don't join any channels, then
<Treenaks> Unfrgiven: well, you could turn off channel autojoin
<tfheen> just connect to the server.
<Unfrgiven> aight ok... apologies
<Treenaks> np :)
<Lathiat> Unfrgiven: in chatnets
<Lathiat> Unfrgiven: inside the defintion for the serve ryou want
<Lathiat> put
<Lathiat> autosendcmd = "/^msg nickserv identify blah";
<Lathiat> chatnets = {
<Lathiat>   freenode = {
<Lathiat>     type = "IRC";
<Lathiat>     autosendcmd = "/^msg nickserv identify XXXXXXXX";
<Lathiat>   };
<Lathiat> }
<Lathiat> for example
<mike_douglas> Lathiat: thanks, I think I'll add that too
<Unfrgiven> Lathiat: ok thanks, ill give that a shot now... ill be sure to not autojoin this time :)
<Lathiat> i should put up my irssi config
<Lathiat> does lots of stuff
<Lathiat> :)
<Unfrgiven> Lathiat: thanks a lot. that worked a treat.
<Lathiat> :)
<Mitario> lo everyone
<Lathiat> no ownder my laptops been running like a dog
<Lathiat> it was stuck on 600mhz
<Lathiat> stupid cpufreq bugs
<Treenaks> ouch
<Lathiat> also, why the hell does gnome-open on a .html open it in firefox when my preferred webbrowser is set to epiphany
* Lathiat discvoers this is because the mime type for .html is to open in firefox
* Lathiat wonders what the preferred web browser setting actually changes
<Lathiat> http:// url handler?
<tfheen> Lathiat: it has good taste, I guess.
<pitti> jdub: ping
<fabbione>      is anybody close to jdub?
<fabbione> we are waiting for him in sublime 1
<ajmitch_> evening DrMiaow 
<\sh> morning
<A_Alam> hi carlos 
<carlos> A_Alam: hi
<A_Alam> hi carlos, i want to join Punjabi lang team
<carlos> A_Alam: just request that from the launchpad UI https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/people/ubuntu-l10n-pa/+members/+add
<A_Alam> carlos, I sent. There is spelling mistake at that page for "Punjabi" as "Punjavi". Can u please do something?
<carlos> hmm, my fault..
<carlos> A_Alam: I'm a bit busy atm, could you file a bug report at https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/malone/products/rosetta so I don't forget it?
<carlos> will fix it as soon as possible
<A_Alam> carlos, nop, thanks
<carlos> I fixed the name as it was Panjavi and seems like I mispelled it...
<sivang> Howdy all
<A_Alam> sent:)
<sivang> any interesting news from UDU anybody?
<sivang> oh well, guess everybody's busy
<louie> mpt: poke?
<louie> mpt: should I just not bother filing malone bugs? is that just going to annoy brad and bjorn? I'd sort of like to file a handful, at least, to explore the interface some, but if the code that is public lags what you guys have internally badly, it seems like probably a waste of everyone's time...
* luis_ realizes he has two clients open, fixes that
<mpt> luis_: Depends what kind of bugs they are
<mpt> luis_: basically nothing that's an RFE, I guess
<luis_> mpt: at this point, only bug-bugs; RFEs I'll take up in person
<luis_> though I'm taking down a list of those too
<mpt> ok, thanks luis_
<Unfrgiven> does anyone know when the schedule for tomorrow at UDU will be up?
<jdub> Unfrgiven: very late tonight
<Unfrgiven> jdub: bummer :) so much for goin 2 work 2morrow ;)
<SlackShrike> Good morring
<SlackShrike> How to create ubuntu from scratch ? I am like a ubuntu.iso in my house !
<SlackShrike> please
<Treenaks> SlackShrike: what do you mean?
<SlackShrike> Treenaks: I would like to learn the process of build of ubuntu to create a CD of installation based on ubuntu.
<Treenaks> SlackShrike: http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/LiveCDCustomizationHowToBr should be a good start
<SlackShrike> Treenaks : This learn how to custumize the live cd and not the process of build
<SlackShrike> I do not find in no place the process of build of ubuntu! where I can find?
<SlackShrike> I do not find in no place the process of build of ubuntu! where I can find?
<Treenaks> SlackShrike: the mailing lists?
<Treenaks> and repeating your questions will not make it more likely that someone answers
<Treenaks> SlackShrike: most people from here are in Australia at the moment
<SlackShrike> ok
<zul> heylo
<sladen> fabbione: LTSP are also wanting to use kexec() http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/ThinClientRoadmap
<ogra> sladen, he is sleeping since 2h
<ogra> (at least he said so)
<sladen> gah.  BTW, there's wireless with essid 'default' out the back ofhte building if it's be cheaper to NAT through that... ahem
<Lathiat> interesting
<tseng> if by cheaper you mean stealing
<tseng> sure.
<tseng> ive seen 4 or 5 different APs crop up
<ctd> what isp does it go through?
<tseng> edveryone on the hotel is on telstra
<ctd> i know, I mean 'default' ;)
<ogra> sladen, yep, thats the neighbor building....
<tseng> well connect through it, and ill tell you your hostmask
<ctd> the wireless at vibe is just arse cost-wise.
<tseng> there is no wireless at vibe
<ctd> I don't think I policed installfest traffic enough
<ctd> I know.
<ctd> all relates back, canonical ap -> vibe bandwidth
<ctd> or atleast that "rooms online" thing
<tseng> that poor little ap
<ctd> meh, installfest had it's own AP. :)
<tseng> im on UBUNTU from floor 2
<Lathiat> im on lathiat, 5000kms away :(
<ctd> interesting essid
<ctd> i'm on drahtlos
<ctd> previously on-site, now some amount of km away
<ogra> tseng, from our room ?
<tseng> yes
<ogra> tseng, wow.... sadly my antenna is bad....
<tseng> mine is great
<ogra> or did they already install the new APs ?
<tseng> when im not surrounded by 20 other wifi users
<tseng> then it cuts out every 2 minutes
<elvirolo> hi all
<jdub> ogra: tomorrow morning
<ogra> jdub, yay, great....
<elvirolo> does anayone know when/if Freeciv 2 will be integrated into breezy?
<ogra> jdub, are you guys through with your meeting ? 
<tseng> jdub++
<jdub> ctd: the vibe prices on those pages are bollocks
<ogra> jdub, i see the BOF list growing constantly
<jdub> ogra: nup...
<ogra> argh
<ogra> what a conf....
<tseng> ogra: still no schedule, foo
<ogra> tseng, but a new BOF every 20min....
<tseng> yes
<tseng> i have 3
<ctd> jdub: I heard canonical got a better deal, but from what I figured it was still a use-least-you-can thing.
<Lathiat> so no torrenting :)
<ogra> tseng, 196 in total.....
<Lathiat> and someone run a local mirror :)
<tseng> not that much need
<tseng> we arent developing anything this week
<ogra> no time for that....
<Lathiat> oh tahts right
<Lathiat> since yoru all there
<Lathiat> no ones doing work on ubuntu :P)
<ogra> with 196 BOFs to attend in 7 days....
<tseng> yes
<tseng> no work at all
<ogra> err 6 days
<ctd> lot of brainstorming
<tseng> we worked for nearly 12 hours today
<Lathiat> anyone knwo how to make get gnoem 2.10 to display drives from /etc/fstab on the desktop (they do appear in places, drivemount)
<tseng> turn on volumes_visible in gconf -> nautilus
<ogra> tseng, i wouldnt wonder if the daily schedule gets extended by one or two hours...
<Lathiat> tseng: nah thats for removable stuff
<Lathiat> stuff from /etc/fstab no longer appears with it
<Lathiat> (it used to)
<tseng> add users to the fstab?
<tseng> as an option
<zul> tseng: you are all a bunch of slackers ;)
<tseng> and remount
<ogra> tseng, but we are here to work, arent we ;)
<tseng> i just flew 20 hours to meet jdub !
<ogra> tseng, its always worth it ;)
<Simira> lol
<Lathiat> tseng: ah taht works, it used to be 'user'
<tseng> Lathiat: ok.
* ogra goes for a smoke to watch the flying foxes
<ogra> i love them...
<Treenaks> flying foxes?
<Simira> are there flying foxes in au as welll?
<Simira> gee I wish I'd been there!
<Simira> or I'll tell Mithrandir to get me one...
<jdub> tseng: dude, and we've hardly had time to catch up
<jdub> tseng: also, i want to learn your accent
<Treenaks> jdub: what kind of accent is that?
<jdub> tseng: midwestern?
<tseng> pennsylvania
<tseng> but
<jdub> tseng: which end?
<tseng> york, south middleish
<tseng> there is actually a book "you know you're a yorker if" about the weird stuff people do that sticks out
<cartman> humpf new c++ packs depending on g++-4.0 is not yet uploaded, right?
<tseng> hah dude, smoke that crack harder
<tseng> we will need to rebuild all of them
<tseng> abi break.
<cartman> yeah I just smoked a big pipe actually
<cartman> still got headache
<cartman> tseng: check transition docs and it says upload would start around ~25 April, hence I am asking :)
<cartman> checked*
<tseng> right now c++ stuff is supposed to be using 3.3 or 3.4
<cartman> tseng: should be 3.3
<cartman> 3.4 is not abi compatible either
<ogra_> GRRRR
<tseng> time to sleep
<tseng> jdub: schedule me harder
<ogra> tseng, meeting seems to be done, he is at the mao BOF here
* ctd still sees no schedule for tomorrow
<Treenaks> Due to lack of interest, the future has been canceled.
<ogra> heh
<ctd> woot.
<Simira> oh, go to bed now guys, so I can have a break. Please? ;p
<Simira> and can someone put Mithrandir online before he takes off?
<ogra> i actually dotnt know where he is....
<ogra> not in the hall...
<tseng> i think ill come back down rather
<ogra> heh... jetlag ?
<tseng> ya
<tseng> owned.
<Simira> ogra: he went for dinner three and a half hours ago, and said he's be back in two...
<ogra> Simira, hmm, i saw him at dinner... 
<tseng> si	dinners here are crack
<Treenaks> sinners?
<ogra> Treenaks, thats what happens with wlan in the eleavtor....
<tseng> it is.
<Simira> haha
<Simira> whatever. I'll talk to him tomorrow. Or tonight, for my part in it.
<tseng> the rfc doesnt cover elevators
<ogra> bytes are puzzled by gravitation ;)
<Treenaks> ogra: depends.. is the elevator made of metal?
<ogra> yep, i guess
<tseng> it holds 17!
<ogra> wow, dell builds great antennas it seems
<tseng> its an intel chip
<tseng> ipw2200
<SlackShrike> when i use the live-cd to boot this return this message: "No common CD-ROM drive was detected" who can help me?
<ogra> hmm, i have an old orinoco silver....
<Treenaks> ogra: ah! old 802.11b m4dn3ss
<ogra> yeah
<cartman> gcc 4.0 branch finally compiles kernel correctly too
<Treenaks> \o/
<cartman> time wait for a new Ubuntu pack :-)
<cartman> +to+
<zul> cartman: not without a lot of patches
<ivoks> hi
<ivoks> did anyone noticed anoying bugs in ubuntu?
<ivoks> there is one specially stoopid
<ivoks> result of brainless copying from debian
<cartman> zul: 4_0_BRANCH should be _ok_ now
<cartman> zul: unless proven guilty :)
<ivoks> the name of kernel image on ubuntu is linux-image, right?
<zul> yep
<ivoks> sl-modem-daemon depends on linux-image, right?
<ivoks> great...
<ivoks> then... make-dpkp creates kernel-image
<ivoks> not linux-image package
<ivoks> and, even worse
<ivoks> u can't create linux-image from linux-source
<ivoks> only kernel-image
<ivoks> without modifying debian/control in linux-source
<ivoks> why do i get this feeling that this was just copied from debian (debian calls his images kernel-image)
<ivoks> :)
<ivoks> this should be fixed
<zul> patches accpeted :)
<tseng> why would you use linux-source
<tseng> most drivers need linux-headers
<ivoks> zul patch?
<ivoks> tseng some people like their own kernels
<ivoks> zul there is no patch
<ivoks> zul i don't know how many packages are brokne this way
<ivoks> zul the thing that should be done is edit debian/control in linux-sources* packages and insted of kernel-image, place linux-image
<zul> ivoks: if you make a patch to get it working properly then it will most likely be accepted
<ivoks> zul who do i contact?
<ivoks> zul but this thing brakes lot of packages
<zul> ivoks: open a bug in bugzilla and add a patch
<ivoks> ok... it will be marked as ultra critical :)
<tseng> mark it as normal
<ivoks> it isn't norml
<ivoks> couse look at this chain reaction..
<tseng> the release team marks bugs as critical
<ivoks> i convert debian/control in linux-source to create linux-image
<tseng> please dont much around with it
<ivoks> tseng don't wory...
<ivoks> and great, i create linux-image package
<ogra> ivoks, youre not supposed to build a complete image if you need only one module...
<ogra> just take the headers and build the module ;)
<ivoks> ogra well, i like to create my own images
<ogra> then i suppose you know what to do ;)
<ivoks> i know... but this is broken distribution
<tseng> fwiw i built my own images from linux-source
<ivoks> ogra my kernel and modules work
<tseng> so did zul, and fabbio etc
<ivoks> tseng great... do u use make-kpkg?
<tseng> no?
<ivoks> tseng try
<ivoks> it will create kernel-image
<tseng> no, thats not the purpose
<zul> tseng: in a way i do ;)
<ivoks> tseng ?
<tseng> are we talking about the same packagE?
<ivoks> make-kpkg - build Debian kernel packages from Linux kernel sources
<ivoks> that's from man, man :)
<tseng> dude comeon
<tseng> let me explain please
<ivoks> ok...
<tseng> linux-image is created from linux-source source package with dpkg-buildpkg or similar
<tseng> make-kpkg makes a custom local deb
<tseng> you are in total control of what it spits out
<ivoks> true
<tseng> it wont look and feel like the ubuntu distributed debs
<ivoks> ?
<ivoks> tseng the whole purpose of make-kpkg is to create deb kernel image
<tseng> i have no idea why you are mucking with debian/control
<tseng> to use make-kpkg
<ivoks> look...
<ivoks> this is the thing
<ivoks> on my lap i need nvidia-driver and sl-modem-source
<tseng> we have nvidia driver rignt in linux-restricted-modules
<ivoks> if i don't tuch anything and try to create kernel images and kernel modules as deb with make-kpkg
<tseng> you should build the other module with linux-headers
<tseng> none of this has anything todo with debian/control
<ivoks> tseng man... i don't run linux-image*ubuntu*
<ivoks> it does, listen...
<ivoks> i get linux-source
<ivoks> do make config and configure the kernel the way i want it
* ogra gose for a last cigarette....
<ivoks> then run make-kpkg to create deb kernel package
<ogra> tseng, dont forget we have to show up at 9:00 at the first BOF....
<ivoks> and modules in /usr/src/modules
<ogra> ivoks, just file a bug ....
<tseng> ogra: meeting daniel at 8
<ivoks> ogra i will
<ivoks> ogra i'm just trying to explain tseng where the problem is
<sivang> Hello all
<tseng> hi sivang 
<sivang> ogra: 'sup ? ;-)
<sivang> hey tseng
<jdub> ahr, home
<ivoks> tseng kernel and modules asre build and installed via dpkg, great
<tseng> great.
<ivoks> tseng then i try to install sl-modem-daemon and it asks for linux-image
<sivang> How is UDU going?
<ivoks> there is a problem couse make-kpkg is creating kernel-image
<tseng> ivoks: of course it does
<ivoks> ?!
<tseng> we cant depend on your custom kernel
<tseng> we have no idea wtf is in it
<ivoks> tseng omg
<tseng> ZOMGLOLZ
<ivoks> this distro is based on debian
<tseng> file the bug if you want, im going to sleep soon
<ivoks> whole make-kpkg and building packages from source on debian
<ivoks> ah.. why am i even trying...
<tseng> ivoks: so make it call the package linux-image-foo
<ivoks> tseng i did
<ivoks> then sl-modem didn't want to compile
<ivoks> couse that one depends on kernel-image
<ivoks> u see the nonsense?
<ivoks> sl-modem depends on kernel-image, and sl-modem-daemon depends on linux-image
<sivang> is there a channel for the conference happening?
<tseng> we have sl-modem scheduled for a bof
<tseng> sivang: no
<tseng> ivoks: so sl-modem was never changed from debian to work on ubuntu
<tseng> ivoks: and we are back to waiting for you to submit a patch
<Lathiat> that works for me, wahts the problem?
<Lathiat> oh, the deps
<ivoks> tseng i'm submiting :)
<tseng> Lathiat: kernel-image vs linux-image
<tseng> its very late here, brain fried
<Lathiat> pfft its only 12:37
<tseng> pfft ive been going since 4am
<Lathiat> ouoch
<Lathiat> i got up at 11 :)
<zul> slackers
<tseng> ill be up by 8
<tseng> so, good night ubuntites
<sivang> night tseng
<sivang> jdub: any schedule for the launch pad integration bof?
<Lathiat> i feel so duped
<ivoks> night
<Lathiat> damnit, my dog just chewed my copy of the new hoary cds
<zul> bwahaha
<Lathiat> i only have one :(
<ogra> night guyss
<sivang> night ogra
<zul> toodles ogra 
<ivoks> there...
<ivoks> bug is filed
<ivoks> i could create patches for this two packages, but, there are more packages which are broken this way...
<wasabi> ugh I knew hotplug would give me heartache at some point
<nanophase> hi
<bluefoxicy> no autopackage?
<Burgundavia> huh?
<bluefoxicy> I can't find autopackage in breezy's repos
<Burgundavia> no in debian yet
<bluefoxicy> http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/gaim/gaim-1.2.1.x86.package?download  <-- autopackage -->http://autopackage.org/gallery.html
<Burgundavia> there is some debate as to autopackage and its usefulness
<Burgundavia> see the u-devel archives
<bluefoxicy> I can see where that would come from
<bluefoxicy> considering it's not alien, so it won't update the package manager
<bluefoxicy> and it's not LSB so it's not really important
<Burgundavia> indeed, an the alien upstream says he is not going to support it
<Burgundavia> something to do with not listed where files go in a good way
<Burgundavia> though I must admit it is very pretty and there does need to be something
<bluefoxicy> it tries to decide where to put files based on the dist
<Burgundavia> ick
<bluefoxicy> yeah
<bluefoxicy> I want it just to experiment with.
<bluefoxicy> although part of using it may involve coding changes
<Burgundavia> from what I understand the devel of autpackage is trying very hard to get distros to accept it
<bluefoxicy> the documentation says that your program must be able to run from anywhere on the filesystem (which is a good thing), and that it should allow dynamic linking with libraries instead of compile time ./configure --options
<bluefoxicy> and they also supply a tool to let you easily mark blocks of code to only be used if you have certain libs, and let that handle all the ugly dynamic linking code (dlopen/dlsym)
<bluefoxicy> so it looks like they've got more going on than "use our package manager"
<bluefoxicy> I think it may be potentially beneficial to popularize the software
<Burgundavia> anywhere on the fs is a good thing?
<bluefoxicy> yes
<bluefoxicy> for example, some versions of GCC IIRC used to be ./configured to have a certain prefix, /usr or /usr/local
<bluefoxicy> if you took a --prefix=/usr/local gcc and put it into /usr, it wouldn't run.
<bluefoxicy> the idea of relocatable installation paths is that you can put it in /usr, /usr/local, or /home/usr/ or whatever
<bluefoxicy> run-time dependency resolution is also a good thing.  If gimp can't find libpng, it should not support libpng; but if you then install libpng, it should now do png without you having to recompile or reinstall gimp
<bluefoxicy> the autopackage people supply a tool to help code for this witohut making ass ugly code and throwing function pointers all over the damn place
<Burgundavia> ok, and are these ideas widely accepted? what about security considerations/
<bluefoxicy> security considerations with runtime dep checking is the same as with buildtime dep checking, in so much that dlopen() checks for the libraries in the same way that ld.so does
<bluefoxicy> i'll pastebin this
<bluefoxicy> http://rafb.net/paste/results/1lc3fN44.html
<bluefoxicy> there's a chunk of the dlopen man page
<bluefoxicy> aside from that, relocatable binaries may only be seen as an issue if they're in your path
<bluefoxicy> which means that potentially having a PATH=.:* would be bad
<bluefoxicy> but then again, why use a real program to attack a system that way when you can just make an 'ls' or 'gcc' program that's not really 'ls' or 'gcc'?
<bluefoxicy> the implications are the same as without relocatable installation paths and runtime dynamic dependency checking
<bluefoxicy> As for wide acceptance of these ideas, they're implimentation overhead.
<bluefoxicy> it takes more work to make a good program
<bluefoxicy> what we have today is accepted as "good enough," and so people don't care to make it "better"
<bluefoxicy> that is probably the only obstacle that will be encountered
<Burgundavia> ok
<Burgundavia> so autopackage would require more work by upstream? (aside from the fact taht they now have to package it)
<bluefoxicy> yes and no.
<bluefoxicy> to create a .package would require added work in some cases, for the package to be relocatable on the FS.  This is not hard and I would imagine that a lot of programs are anyway.
<bluefoxicy> To make the package able to recommend instead of require most of the options currently specified at compile time (dynamic dep. resolution) would require a fair to heavy amount of work, but is optional
<bluefoxicy> it is recommended, and better.
<bluefoxicy> and just having distributions supply autopackage won't force maintainers to use it
<bluefoxicy> so the only detriment to any distribution supplying autopackage is that they have to package it; it won't discourage any upstream support
<Burgundavia> and that of implicitly promoting something which is not really a good thing, security wise
<bluefoxicy> as I said, the security implications are the same as vanilla dynamic linking
<bluefoxicy> and of being able to set your PATH variable
<Burgundavia> no, I am talking about installing random bytes off the web
<bluefoxicy> oh
<bluefoxicy> that's not exactly a "security implication" except for how letting a human touch your PC is a "secuirty implication"
<bluefoxicy> installing random programs off the net is an issue with the user
<bluefoxicy> Remember also that the LSB is heading towards IV support, so this will be possible later anyway
<Burgundavia> but you limit the security risk by promoting use of the repos
<bluefoxicy> yes but you limit usability that way as well
<Burgundavia> not really
<bluefoxicy> I'm very user oriented.  I want Linux to have some way for independent vendors to shelve software that can be bought and installed from CD
<Burgundavia> as a system infested with spyware/malware is not usable
<bluefoxicy> and IVs are not going to package 400 different packages for 400 different systems
<Burgundavia> I want that system too, but I only want it for stuff that cannot be packaged in a distro neutral way
<bluefoxicy> it's impossible to separate it.
<bluefoxicy> the system can't be inherantly designed so that spyware isn't installable but benign apps are
<bluefoxicy> well, it can be
<Burgundavia> but you can limit the risk by not promoting installing out of a webbrowser
<bluefoxicy> but you have to exclude some benign apps as well.
<Burgundavia> as users cannot tell the difference
<bluefoxicy> dude, the more warning boxes a user gets
<bluefoxicy> the more he clicks through them
<bluefoxicy> when there's too many he says fuck it and installs windows
<bluefoxicy> pirated windows
<Burgundavia> that is why you never have install out of a webbrowser
<bluefoxicy> from gnutella
<bluefoxicy> with virus infections in the ISO
<Burgundavia> they are working on a new software map installer using pymozembed
<Burgundavia> see the UDU wiki
<bluefoxicy> yes and gues what?
<bluefoxicy> if ID Software can use it to package Quake 4
<bluefoxicy> then GAIN can use it to package Gator for Linux
<Burgundavia> we are not going to eliminate spyware
<Burgundavia> but if there is no installing out of ff/otehr web browser, then you are never going to have an issue
<bluefoxicy> exactly my point
<bluefoxicy> dude
<bluefoxicy> people will go to the web, download the file, and run the packager against it
<bluefoxicy> or they'll download spyware with a graphical installer.
<bluefoxicy> let Firefox worry about Firefox security and spyware; they do a good job preventing it on Windows
<Burgundavia> not really
<Burgundavia> windows doesn't solve the underlying issue of promoting random bytes off the net
<bluefoxicy> users don't just click "Yes" in FF on Win; they click "click here to download," then "open," then "yes I'm sure I want to open this potentially dangerous file"
<bluefoxicy> just like I went to sourceforge when gtk-gnutella was busted in ubuntu
<bluefoxicy> and clicked the gtk-gnutella deb link, and ran dpkg on it
<Burgundavia> most people will not do that
<bluefoxicy> then most people won't be able to install Doom3, because we don't have it packaged yet.
<bluefoxicy> and so they'll decide that linux sucks and go back to windows.
<Burgundavia> and if you promote a gui software installer, which links into your repos, then you have gone a long way towards mitigating that
<bluefoxicy> nope
<bluefoxicy> you've gone a long way towards mitigating users installing benign software that they want/need unless they're technicians
<Burgundavia> I agree there does need to be a way to install non-free stuff
<bluefoxicy> but it doesn't have to be repos
<bluefoxicy> it has to be point and click
<Burgundavia> not in a web browser
<bluefoxicy> in or out of it
<Burgundavia> cd distibuted stuff
<bluefoxicy> ok, listen, I'm only saying tihs one time
<bluefoxicy> a web browser and a CD are the same thing.
<bluefoxicy> If it's on a CD, I pop the CD in and click it.
<Burgundavia> web browser point and click in inherently dangerous and will only lead to malware
<bluefoxicy> If it's on the web, I save it and then run it from nautilus.
<Burgundavia> there is a difference in how the user perceives it
<bluefoxicy> where do you see the difference?
<bluefoxicy> no there's not
<bluefoxicy> the user perceives "I have a program I want to install"
<bluefoxicy> and users are monkeyis
<bluefoxicy> they'll stick their hand in the hole, grab the food, and yank continuously trying to get their fist out.
<Burgundavia> no, users shouldn't have to think about this stuff
<bluefoxicy> the more you put things in their way, the more they'll fight through it
<Burgundavia> that is why you promote the gui software installer
<Burgundavia> and cd based installs
<bluefoxicy> GUI software installers should use packages.
<bluefoxicy> installing software without using a package damages the system
<Burgundavia> absolutely
<bluefoxicy> it drops it in somewheere without keeping a record of what it just did with my system.
<Burgundavia> I don't disagree that all software should use the native packaging system
<Amaranth> isn't autopackage supposed to solve this?
<Burgundavia> I just don't think that you should be able to install out of the webbrowser
<bluefoxicy> anyway I gotta go
<Burgundavia> np
<bluefoxicy> you can't possibley stop people from installing downloaded software
<bluefoxicy> in the worst case they'll google for it.
<Burgundavia> but you can train people to not look there first
<bluefoxicy> Amaranth:  i'm more interested in the alterior effects, such as runtime dependency resolution ("soft linking" wtf?)
<Amaranth> If anyone here is an op in #ubuntu, please look now.
<mdke> gosh
<lsuactiafner> ok to play wmv files native amd64 bit users need a staticly linking binary compiled for a 32bit system
<lsuactiafner> then its possible for mplayer to use the codecs as it should
<wasabi> sounds about right
<lsuactiafner> yeh i did it yesterday night. i once spoke to a guy here that compiles the mplayer package 
<lsuactiafner> want to ask him to submit mplayer64 that will give better performance to play ported codecs
<lsuactiafner> and a mplayer32 static binary for amd64 users to play wmv files..
<zyga> hello :-)
<lsuactiafner> zyga : was it you?
<zyga> lsuactiafner: meaning?
<zyga> lsuactiafner: ah, no
<lsuactiafner> (;
<zyga> lsuactiafner: BTW with windows xp 64 around can't we get their 64bit codecs?
<zyga> and another BTW: does windows xp 64 use 32bit internet explorer? if not they have no flash either, right?
<lsuactiafner> i think the win32 codecs for mplayer are currently reverse engineered
<lsuactiafner> so it will take a brave soul to hack @ the 64bit ones
<zyga> lsuactiafner: if they are fully reverse engeered then where's the source code ;]  ?
<zyga> lsuactiafner: anyway you are probably somewhat right
<zyga> they are modified
<lsuactiafner> yeh not sure tho
<lsuactiafner> anyone here got a 32bit unbuntu install they can use to make static binaries for amd64? since i used a slackware 10.1 chroot for it
<lsuactiafner> think it would be best if a ubuntu system was used
<Lathiat> are there any #ubuntu ops about?
<zul> lsuactiafner: why dont you debootstrap a chroot for ubuntu 686?
<Lathiat> lsuactiafner: also look at 'pbuilder'
<lsuactiafner> i dont have ubuntu 686
<lsuactiafner> and i'm on a 5k/s dailup in south-africa
<lsuactiafner> not gonna download a iso 
<lsuactiafner> gonna check pbuilder now
<lsuactiafner> i cant find into about submitting a package to ubuntu?
<lsuactiafner> since i think i'm not the only amd64 user that found not being able to play wmv ect annoying (even with all possible codecs installed)
<Treenaks> lsuactiafner: well, that has a reason..
<Treenaks> lsuactiafner: I think you can guess
<lsuactiafner> Treenaks : yes i know about not violating copyrights ect
<lsuactiafner> but the problem is an amd64 system with a mplayer64bit binary cant use the win32 codecs
<lsuactiafner> only a 32bit staticly linked binary can
<lsuactiafner> so if i make  a 32bit staticly linked binary the user can go download all the codecs he wants from mplayerhq
<Treenaks> lsuactiafner: yes.. the problem is mixing 32 and 64 bit stuff
<Treenaks> best way to solve this is complain to someone that he sent you a crappy file
<lsuactiafner> well, i got a 8mb staticly linked binary that can play wmv files on my 64bit system. i just need to figure out how to spread it to other ppl heh
<lsuactiafner> ccache > all
<lsuactiafner> ok making packages rely on programs that automatically recompile the source ect.. that wont work for me
<lsuactiafner> i have the binary and all i want to do to is put the binary in a .deb packages to make it cp binary /usr/local/bin/
<robertj_> does anyone know if the hoary LiveCD has known problems on G5s?
<wasabi> Yes.
<tube013> anybody have an idea why a patch would apply fine during a dpkg-build in my normal environment and then not apply in a chroot environment?
<lsuactiafner> chroot is differant?
<crimsun> tube013: dpatch?
<tube013> crimsun: yea its a dpatch.
<zul> tube013: what package?
<crimsun> tube013: and you b-d on dpatch and invoke it properly in debian/rules?
<crimsun> (or use the cdbs equiv?)
<tube013> I'm kind of new to packaging, and am just getting started by reading some of the guides on the wiki, and the debian New maintainers guide.
<tube013> ie.  you a little over my head.
<crimsun> ok, in $package/debian/control, do you have dpatch listed as a Build-Depends?
<tube013> nope, however I have dpatch installed in the chroot.  if that is what you are getting after?
<crimsun> well, you should still b-d on dpatch, because when you pbuild it, it still needs the explicit b-d
<tube013> okay I'll add it to the control file and see what happens.
<crimsun> ok, so dpatch is installed in the chroot. How are you invoking dpatch in debian/rules?
<tube013> I started with an existing package, that won't compile with the current gcc, and made a patch for it, the existing package already had 2 dpatches which apply fine in both enviroments
<crimsun> ok, and you added your new dpatch to debian/patches/00list?
<tube013> yup, its there.  03_make-buildabe
<crimsun> ok, so when you debuild binary, where is it hitching?
<crimsun> I recommend you look at pbuilder instead of a plain chroot
<tube013> it fails to apply my new dpatch.  however the exact same source directory and debian/ build with fine with dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -us -uc in my normal environment.
<tube013> I tried pbuilder first got frustrated by the same problem, so I figured maybe it was a pbuilder thing
<tube013> created the chroot, and re did the whole patch process in the chroot, but same results.
<crimsun> is it failing outright due to rejections, or is it silently not applying it?
<crimsun> please upload your .dsc and .diff.gz to a publicly-accessible web site, and I'll look
<tube013> well I just found that it is rejecting the patch
<crimsun> so your dpatch looks to be invalid
<tube013> yea but why would the same patch apply in my normal environment
<crimsun> because your normal environment differs from your chroot
<crimsun> make sure the dpatch applies cleanly in your chroot
<tube013> thats what I'm after....
<tube013> here's the command I used to create the patch, after modifying 2 header files:
<tube013> diff -Nru libmp4-2.0.0-orig/ libmp4-2.0.0 > make-buildable.patch
<tube013> looking at the corresponding patch it looks correct, I then did the following to make it a dpatch:
<tube013> dpatch patch-template -p "03_make-buildable" "make buildable on hoary" < ../make-buildable.patch > debian/patches/03_make-buildable.dpatch
<crimsun> (on hoary or breezy?)
<tube013> hoary
<crimsun> does it build with gcc-4.0?
<crimsun> i.e., does your dpatch make it buildable with gcc-4.0?
<tube013> the patch makes it build with gcc-3.3 and 3.4
<tube013> it changes a couple NULL's to 0's thats it
<crimsun> ok, test if that's sufficient for gcc-4.0
<crimsun> at this point, fixes should be targeted for breezy
<tube013> okay,  I'll work on it.  thanks for your help
<crimsun> np. If you can pass me the dpatch, I'll see if I can reproduce your dpatch failure in pbuilder
<tube013> okay, here is the dpatch: http://tube013.org/03_make-buildable.dpatch
<tube013> its for libmp4 from marillat
<crimsun> k
<tube013> hmm.  just looked at one of the targets, and it seems to have been patched.  geuss maybe I should try with out my dpatch on my chroot and see what happens.
<crimsun> ah, it's only in debian-marillat
<tube013> yea I was trying to compile some packages from there and rarewares so not to interrupt with the ubuntu repos.  
<tube013> turns out it compiles fine in the chroot without the patch.  I just wrongly assumed since I needed it in my normal env. I would need it in the chroot
<tube013> shows me.
<lsuactiafner> crimsun : i made a static 32 bit mplayer binary for the amd64 architecture so that ppl can play files that need use the win32bit codecs
<lsuactiafner> but my packaging for debian needs work, would you mind to look @ it and fix it up?
<crimsun> lsuactiafner: 64-bit mplayer doesn't work with the 64-bit codecs from the amd64 debian-marillat repo?
<lsuactiafner> crimsun : nope, i installed the debian-marillat mplayer but it didnt play wmv files even witht he w32codecs installed
<lsuactiafner> i think its cause the codecs are 32bit and mplayer64, so not compatible, so my binary is mplayer32 and it can play wmv files if the codecs are installed
<lsuactiafner> its also staticly linked so emulation is transparent ect
<crimsun> lsuactiafner: please put a link on MOTUTodo
<lsuactiafner> MOTUodo?
<crimsun> wiki/MOTUTodo
<lsuactiafner> "ftp://ftp.puk.ac.za/outgoing/mplayer-amd64hammer-32bit_1 1.0pre7-3.3.4-0.3ubuntu6_amd64.tar.gz" but ftp://ftp.puk.ac.za/outgoing/MPlayer-1.0pre7_32bit-for-amd64.tar.bz2 is cleaner
<lsuactiafner> k
<lsuactiafner> tho the package is really screwed up since i couldnt use the fakeroot ect tools since my chroot was slackware 10.1
<lsuactiafner> http://www.ubuntulinux.org/join_form gives me errors
<lsuactiafner> rather, gives me nothign
<lsuactiafner> link bokren?
<chuck_> hey
<Simira> hey, can someone kick Mithrandir out of bed?
#ubuntu-devel 2005-05-07
<Gagatan> Simira: he needs his beautysleep ;)
<Simira> Gagatan: it's morning now, and he's at work. Should be, at least.
<Simira> Gagatan: besides, I don't believe he can get any more handsome than he is.
<Gagatan> hehe
<dholbach> morning
<robertj_> wowzers, reading the notes
<robertj_> Marc's sticky note idea is great stuff
<tseng> the sticky notes on the wall?
<tseng> hang on.
<robertj_> yeah
<Unfrgiven> still no schedule for 2day's udu?
<sladen> Unfrgiven: I think Claire was 'printing it'
<ajmitch_> morning all
<Simira> Good morning Sydney!
<Unfrgiven> sladen: so there isnt anything i can access online?
<robertj_> btw, does anyone know if there are known issues with the G5 and Hoary LiveCD?
<sladen> Unfrgiven: well, this is the confusing bit :-)  
<tseng> robertj_: http://tseng.ath.cx/images/p1010110.jpg
<Unfrgiven> sladen: what is the confusing bit? :)
<tfheen> tseng: are all the numbers in your picture URLs binary?
<tseng> tfheen: no
<tseng> its whatever my camera spits out
<Unfrgiven> tfheen: hehe :)
<tseng> he must have typed that while he was walking
<tseng> he just walked past me
* robertj_ was pretty sad when he couldn't get Ubuntu to boot on his new computer :(
<tseng> (weird)
<sladen> robertj_: surely that's a bug?
* mdke nods
<robertj_> sladen: probably
<sladen> robertj_: why didn't it boot?
<mdke> whenever something doesn't run out of the box its a bug right?
<robertj_> liveCD was very unhappy, warty wouldn't boot and Hoary was probably on a cd that it wouldn't read ;)
<Unfrgiven> sladen: do you know when the first bof of the day is?
<robertj_> sladen: dunno, some message about memory allocation and then kaput
<robertj_> today was crazy so I didn't write it down or anything
<robertj_> abut it run's 10.3 pretty well ;)
<tfheen> tseng: I have 31337 typiw p0w4h5!
<tfheen> s/5/z/
<ajmitch_> impressive
<Unfrgiven> does anyone know when the first BOF of the day is? and where?
<Simira> and what?
<Unfrgiven> Simira: umm yeah that too :)
<tseng> Unfrgiven: i am giving UniverseSecurity first
<tseng> Unfrgiven: followed by MonoCrack
<Unfrgiven> at 9?
<tseng> yes
<Unfrgiven> do you know what they are doing about the BOFs that were suggested at the brainstorm yesterday?
<tfheen> Unfrgiven: scheduling a fair amount of them, at least.
<tseng> uh, i just mentioned 2 of them
<tseng> jane is putting the schedule on the wiki now
<Unfrgiven> tseng: thanks for the info :)
<Simira> so the rumor says :)
<zul> crap...you guys are going to be busy
<Unfrgiven> cya guys there...
<Amaranth> 'Speaking of downloads, bandwidth here is tight and precious, if we have 100 people doing apt-get update we will get in trouble, we do pay by the MB.  Daniel please don't upload a new X, kernel or OpenOffice."
<Amaranth> haha
<zul> morning ogra 
<dilinger> bob2: were you at UDU yesterday?
<bob2> dilinger: yeah
<bob2> here now
<daniels> Amaranth: where was that written?
<ogra> hey zul
<bob2> I'm sitting next to luis villa
<Simira> hi bob
<Amaranth> daniels: Riddell's transcript of the opening (keynote?)
<daniels> ah
<bob2> hey Simira 
<thoreauputic> just wondering - as an interested user (non programmer) - is it OK to turn up at UDU? 
<tfheen> thoreauputic: absolutely
<thoreauputic> when is a convenient or appropriate time?
<tfheen> look at the schedule and just turn up to stuff you're interested in
<bob2> thoreauputic: http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDownUnder/ScheduleTuesday
<thoreauputic> bob2: thanks, I'll take a look :)
<mvirkkil> man, I wish I was there. I would've loved to talk about thinkclients, application installers and USplash.
<mdke> carlos, ping?
<zul> hey jeff
<mdke> whoa i see me on one of those meetings
* mdke gets on a plane
<mike_douglas> could I get a password for https://wiki.launchpad.canonical.com/MaloneOneDotZero or is it Canonical employee's only?
<carlos> mdke: pong, but on a meeting...
<mdke> carlos, i'll leave you a msg np
<ctd> woo, we finally have a schedule today
* Simira gets all jealus on all of you by reading it
<mdke> Simira, me too :/
<carlos> mike_douglas: that wiki is only for Canonical people, sorry, but ping bradb I think he can give you more concrete info about what Malone will look like for 1.0 release
<mike_douglas> carlos: alright, cool
<mdke> is mdz_ contactable by irc?
<bob2> yeah, but he'll be very busy today
<bob2> is it urgent?
<mdke> not at all
<mdke> i left a /query
<mdke> just wondered whether that was him
<mdke> or his computer at home or something
<bob2> ah, that is matt zimmerman indeed
<mdke> sure, just that he doesn't have the funky telstra.net hostmask you guys all have :p
<CarlK> seems /home on fat fs doesn't let adduser work - anyone know if there is a bug on this? 
<mdke> i was just thinking maybe someone typoes my nick for his on the timetable for today at the WikiTransition meeting
<tfheen> CarlK: don't have /home on a FAT fs.
<CarlK> tfheen - the installed defaulted it, and then stuck me in a loop on the "add user" step
<tfheen> huh?
<CarlK> er, installer
<CarlK> I started with a 20g ntfs, shrank it to 8 (way cool!), added 750 swap, 3g ext3, rest as fat
<CarlK> ext3 defaulted to /, the fat defaulted to /home
<mvirkkil> Is the wiki.launchpad.canonical.com for employees only?
<mdke> yep
<mdke> ^^
<CarlK> I am guessing I will put home under / and then mount the fat on /home/carl
<mvirkkil> What is Foaf?
<CarlK> found bugs on both issues
<CarlK> took me a few tries to figure out what to search for. I can deal, so never mind.
* Simira visited this guy in Fredrikstad, Norway, last Saturay: http://tellus.err.no/gallery/view_photo.php?set_albumName=april05&id=IMG_0231
<robertj> Carl: how did you do the shrink?
<CarlK> the installer supports it
<ctd> mvirkkil: 'friend of a friend'
<CarlK> picked the ntfs partition, picked the size, hit enter, entered the new size, hit "done" or whaterver
<CarlK> the few min of blank screen was mildly concerning, but the drive light told me it was doing something, so I let it spin
<mvirkkil> ctd: Ok. I still have no clue how that can be one point zero, though.
<CarlK> bugzilla - how do I link a new bug to an exising one?  1085 
<CarlK> or is it like attachments where I have to commit it first
<mdke> resolve bug, mark as duplicate of #number
<CarlK> well, 1085 is resolved and not qute the same, but I wanted the a ref link
<mdke> https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1085 ?
<CarlK> yeah
<CarlK> I reported that it defaulted a fat fs to /home
<CarlK> and ust made a note in the comments - im sure cj will figure it out ;)
<daniels> hypatia: 'ullo
<hypatia> hey daniels 
<hypatia> how are you this morning?
<mdke> hi hypatia 
<daniels> hypatia: not too bad thanks, you?
<mvirkkil> daniels: Hey, any news on what direction uslpash is heading? 
<mvirkkil> I just talked to the main developer of splashy, and he mentioned they'll probably split splashy in to two processes and use a fifo to talk.
<tseng> hypatia: all the specs are going on the wiki
<mdke> there are some crazy pages on the wiki :) check this one out http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/UnabashedCzechColonialism
<hypatia> daniels: OK.
<hypatia> daniels: there was a breakin at work on the weekend, fortunately they didn't nick *my* computer.
<hypatia> tseng: um, did you mean to direct that comment to me?
<daniels> hypatia: yow.  well, good to see that your stuff was at least OK.
<daniels> mvirkkil: i'm just about to put notes on the wiki.
<mvirkkil> daniels: Thanks. 
<ctd> daniels: The magic trick to vga-out and sleep on iBooks is LVDSProbePLL + AGPMode 4 + UseFBDev false
<ctd> daniels: Is there a way to get xv output to the external device, though?
<daniels> ctd: hm, you're using ATI
<daniels> try OverlayOnCRTC2
<daniels> oh, even better, you can set it on the fly with the XV_SWITCHCRT Xv attribute
<daniels> don't think there are any sample apps to twiddle Xv attributes tho
<daniels> sladen: http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/USplash
<daniels> mvirkkil: ^^
<ctd> Xvattr sounds good.
<daniels> hm, I don't have that installed
<mvirkkil> daniels: Did you read what I wrote about sockets and about vga16 handling on http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/USplash ?
<daniels> hm, not packaged
<daniels> mvirkkil: looks interesting
<mvirkkil> daniels: I've looked and tested libbogl out a bit. 
<mvirkkil> daniels: It's primitive but quite useful and easy to use.
<mjg59> Using bogl for the notification tool is probably sensible
<mjg59> But initially we'll just blat a static image onto the framebuffer
<mvirkkil> daniels: BTW the splashy guys have invented a fun way to measyre the progress of init. The idea is that a program notifies the progressbar process. This program gets started at S10 S20 S30 ... and those update the progressbar to  10% 20% 30% etc.
<mvirkkil> mjg59: ^--
<mvirkkil> This gets around the "bouncing" progressbar.
<mjg59> mvirkkil: That requires renumbering all our init scripts - there's no correlation between the number and the progress
<mvirkkil> mjg59: Why cant the program that does the 'cat img > /dev/fb0' and the graphical progress indicator be the same?
<mvirkkil> mjg59: Why?
<mjg59> mvirkkil: Because the static splash will be done from initrd, and we want to add as little as possible to that
<mjg59> mvirkkil: On my system, we go from S25bluez-utils to S89anacron
<mvirkkil> mjg59: Exactly. So that wouldn't be a problem.
<mjg59> Then the progress bar would jump from 25% to 89%
<mjg59> Which is bad and wrong - a progress bar should increase linearly, not jump
<mvirkkil> So the progress bar would jump from 0% to 20% and from 80% to 100%, but it would be better than nothing.
<mjg59> Otherwise it doesn't provide any useful information
<mvirkkil> Do you mean you have no processes between 20 and 89?
<mjg59> Yes
<mvirkkil> mjg59: Ok. Screw that then :D
<mjg59> That's not atypical
<mjg59> :)
<mvirkkil> I jst thought that it was a cool hack, and that some information was better than none.
<mjg59> Yeah, it could be done if we renumbered everything
<mvirkkil> mjg59: Too much work.
<mjg59> But that would reduce interoperability with Debian, and argh...
<mvirkkil> mjg59: It might be more feasable to generate a cnofig file from the the init scripts. 
<mjg59> Yeah, possibly
<mvirkkil> Have some script read throught the listing, and generate the needed info.
<jsgotangco> gyaahh
<jsgotangco> ajmitch, heyyyyy
<mvirkkil> g'day mate
<jsgotangco> fabio got some stuff running here i finally got online
<Amaranth> Why would the number matter? Just update the progress bar as things finish.
<mvirkkil> mjg59: re usplat, I was imagining that the usplash displayer would be so extremely simple that it could be placed in initrd. Then there would be a separate controller process that would tell what the view should show. 
<mvirkkil> Amaranth: We don't know how many there actually are, and a huge jump from 20 to 89 would look more than a bit odd.
<Amaranth> You don't know how many scripts get run?
<tfheen> mvirkkil: cache it from the last run, then.
<mvirkkil> tfheen: That's what we were discussing.
<Amaranth> You know how many will be there on install, you can go from there with caching.
<mvirkkil> Amaranth, tfheen: We might have a separate program iterating and writing a conf file, so usplash would know.
<mvirkkil> s/program/script
<mvirkkil> Lets call the graphical end of USplash Udisplay and the controller Unotifier. So I'm wondering how small Udisplay would need to be to get in to initrd?
<mvirkkil> I mean it would first splat the image, and then wait for additional commands/data throught the fifo. The commands would be: Display this image, write this text, set progress bar to this percentage. It wouldnt need to be more complex than that.
<mvirkkil> mjg59, daniels: Your thoughts?
<mvirkkil> sladen: ping
<daniels> mvirkkil: 'as small as possible', but glib is ok, apparently
<mvirkkil> daniels: Is sladen's code available anywhere?
<mjg59> I'm not sure why there's any need to use the program for the initial splash
<mjg59> We already have the cat command to do that
<mvirkkil> mjg59: How long is the time between USplat and USplash?
<daniels> mvirkkil: yeah, but don't know the URL offhand
<mvirkkil> Is there a guesstimate of how long we need USplat up before USplash can be loaded?
<mjg59> mvirkkil: Time from initrd to starting rc? Couple of seconds at most
<mvirkkil> mjg59: I'm just wondering since I'm not sure if a usplat is needed.
<mvirkkil> But then again, what do I know :O)
<daniels> usplat is 'cat'
<mjg59> mvirkkil: We can just cat the image to the framebuffer. There's no complexity here, and it's a small win.
<mvirkkil> mjg59: I understand that. I'm assuming the complexity is in packing it in to initrd, or updating it whitout updaing the kernel.
<mjg59> No, that's easy
<mvirkkil> I mean the image
<mvirkkil> mjg59: Ok.
<mjg59> It's a drop-in script for initrd-tools
<mvirkkil> I guess it's a low hanging fruit worth taking :-)
<mvirkkil> mjg59: Are you going to be working on usplash?
<mjg59> mvirkkil: Probably not - I'm just involved in the design
<undre6k> question: im tryin to install from cd  and I get   The debootstrap program exites with an error (return value 1) do I have a bad cd or is this a known problem?
<zul> bad cd most likely
<undre6k> damn
<mvirkkil> undre6k: What does the debug info on virtual terminal 2 or 3 say?
<undre6k> I think my partitions arent right
<undre6k> I should have a boot ,swap and root right??
<mvirkkil> undre6k: swap and / are enough on modern hardware.
<undre6k> what about the boot partition I mean 
<undre6k> I had fedora previously 
<mvirkkil> undre6k: It's just a directory under root.
<undre6k> ok fedora does the same thing right?
<mvirkkil> undre6k: There are several reasons why you might want to have a boot partition, but none of them are very important to the average user on modern hardware :-)
<mvirkkil> Usually you can just have swap and /
<mvirkkil> Come to #ubuntu and we'll continue this there. This isn't the right channel for this.
<undre6k> ok 
* GammaRay enjoys the quiet here
<sladen> mvirkkil: are you here in Sydney?
<mvirkkil> sladen: No. Finland :-)
<sladen> mvirkkil: 90% of the ini scripts are in S0X
<mvirkkil> sladen: But man I wish I was :-)
<mvirkkil> sladen: SOX?
<sladen> mjg59: it needs to detect the video mode and set the palette.  bogl sounds interesting .  who knows about it?
<mvirkkil> sladen: I've checked it out and did a few tests.
<mvirkkil> sladen: Nothing very complex, but drew a few lines in different colors, and read up on how to load an image.
<mvirkkil> sladen: All in console.
<mvirkkil> sladen: The d-i guys might be more familiar, since d-i uses it.
<mvirkkil> sladen: How much code do you have thus far?
* sladen plays wireless roulette
<Keybuk> beware, lamont's wielding the gun
* tseng updates a pbuilder from warty to breezy
<tseng> crack!
<tfheen> what's cracky about that?
<tseng> i only did it because i only had debootstrap scripts fro warty on the server
<tfheen> well, ok
<whiprush> mako: http://www.mozilla.org/contribute/
<jba> hey guys
<jba> how goes udu ?
<jba> i'll be there tonight, 6ish
<bob2> you'll only get to see one bof or so after that
<jba> i know, but what cna I do
<jba> i only really wanted to get to meet some of the guys in person any way
<jba> tseng, you're there aren't ya ?
<ctd> jba: no you don't.
<jba> hehe
<jba> I've been a mostly silent contributor to oss
<ctd> jba: bob2 will give you nightmares.
<jba> i'd like to get a little more involved in the community
<ctd> jba: Make sure to cover your eyes, ears, noses in his presence.
<thom> cc: ping? can you editory types have a look at FasterBoot and PowerManagegementConfiguration?
<cc> thom: will do, in a while. 
<thom> thanks :-)
<bob2> ctd: bah
<bob2> ctd: you're just jealous that you didn't get pizza
<ctd> bob2: pizza? what pizza?
<bob2> exactly
<ctd> there is no pizza
<ctd> gah, have me hungry now
<bob2> haha
* ctd throws an angry cat at bob2 
<ctd> pay attention to your bof!
<whiprush> mako: http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/DocteamGettingStarted
<bob2> ctd: I have no bof
<tfheen> does anybody at UDU have a Nokia charger?
<bob2> tfheen: yeah
<tfheen> bob2: cool, can I borrow it for an hour or two?
<lamont_r> bob2: you do?  put me on the list for sometime this week, pls
<bob2> tfheen: sure. now?
<tfheen> (no rush, just need to charge my phone since it's out of juice)
<lamont_r> don't need the phone until I return, etc.
<tfheen> bob2: post-lunch would be fine with me
<bob2> okiedokie
<ctd> bob2: I think you've got a good business oppurtunity here. :)
<whiprush> mako: http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/CommunityArtwork
<bob2> haha
<whiprush> mako: http://www.ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=16
<ogra> mako, http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/MOTU
<ogra> mako, http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/UniverseCandidates
<fabbione> daniels ?
<jsgotangco> mako, http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/DocteamStepByStepl18n for documentation i18n
<daniels> fabbione: wassup
<schweeb> fabbione: nother unsuccessful SPARC install :-/  metallikop had the same problem (Fast Data Access MMU Miss) on a Blade 100
<fabbione> daniels: sorry.. i am in the middle of a BOf.. let's meet up at lunch
<daniels> sure
<daniels> our spec's already been edited
<daniels> just needs mdz/sabdfl to approve
<fabbione> ok
<fabbione> that's what i was waiting for
<wasabi_> wow does mouse acceleration in the gnome control panel not work?
<wasabi_> hmm it works it just doesn't recognize nothing as 0.
<wasabi_> woh actually at furthur glance it looks like sensitivity 
<wasabi_> = acceleration and acceleration = sensitivty
<tfheen> fabbione: any idea ifwhen willy be around?
<Amaranth> hey, for the bootsplash you could just do what the foresight linux guys do
<Amaranth> http://www.foresightlinux.com/screenshots/bootsplash.png no percents, just a throbber
<mvirkkil> Amaranth: I actually like a throbber better than a bounig progressbar.
<mvirkkil> Amaranth: But I still wish we could use a real, informative, progressbar. 
<Amaranth> breezy+1 :P
<Amaranth> It'd be better to get the throbber version going before working on that.
<Amaranth> So at least you have _something_.
<mvirkkil> Amaranth: The bouncing progressbar is simpler to implement.
<mvirkkil> Amaranth: And that is still something.
<Amaranth> It's something that looks broken. :P
<Amaranth> How is a bouncing progress bar easier than a pulsing one?
<Amaranth> Because it doesn't have to run something, it can just read in events?
<mvirkkil> Amaranth: A bouncing progressbar is just a box that grows larger and smaller. No fancy drawing, just a box.
<Amaranth> Windows XP doesn't have an accurate bootsplash either, their progress bar just goes over and over (cheap pulsing)
<Amaranth> A pulsing progressbar is just a box too.
<mvirkkil> or a box that moves..
<Amaranth> If you don't want to do a throbber.
<jsgotangco> lunch!
<mvirkkil> Ahh.. Don't get me wrong. I would like a throbber, perhaps a throbber and a progressbar. The thing is that if we want something/anything, the bouncing progressbar is the easiest.
<Amaranth> You've done GTK programming, right? :)
<mvirkkil> Amaranth: Just a little.
<mvirkkil> Amaranth: Mostly using pygtk
<Amaranth> Do you know what a pulsing progressbar is?
<mvirkkil> Amaranth: I'm not talking about a HIG bouncing progressbar.
<mvirkkil> Amaranth: Yes, I know what it is.
<bpuccio> sorry to disrupt the developers, but I wasn't sure if it was acceptable to add a mirror I have up that is i386 only to the list of public mirrors on the wiki... I believe there is a mirror chooser that will be used in Breezy and any PPC/AMD64 users would have a real problem if they were kicked over to my repository... sadly, I don't have a large enough harddrive at the moment to mirror all architectures
<Amaranth> How is doing that harder than doing the bouncing percents?
<mvirkkil> Amaranth: Look. I'm *not* talking about something as fancy as the gtk pulsing progressbar. 
<Amaranth> I know.
<mvirkkil> Amaranth: Now, making a box, that goes from right to left, and then back, is simple.
<Amaranth> That's just like the GTK pulsing progressbar...
<mvirkkil> Well, not quite. But the idea is the same.
<mvirkkil> Drawing squares with bogl is possible.
<mvirkkil> A throbber could be done equally easily as long as it would consist of sqares.
<Amaranth> Well, that's all I meant. A little rectangle bouncing from one end of a box to another.
<mvirkkil> :D
<Amaranth> A throbber would be nice (would have to be circles) but a pulsing progress bar is good too.
<mvirkkil> Ok. I just didn't get what you meant. I thought you were talking about something as fancy as the foresight throbber,
<Amaranth> A throbber would look like OS X. :)
<mvirkkil> Hey, anything is possible. Some things are just easier than others :P
<mvirkkil> Amaranth: But anyway: I'm not even working on this. I'm just an interested user who happens to be interested. You should takl to sladen who is the official developer of this thing.
<mvirkkil> argh.. I suck at writing.
<jba_> anyone got directions on howto get to rush cutters hotel?
<jba_> I'll be coming in over the harbour tunnel, and then william street
<hypatia> Yep.
<hypatia> Once on William Street go through the tunnel straight onto Bayswater Rd.
<jba_> through double bay, or get off before?
<hypatia> It's right on the other side of that tunnel under the Coca Cola sign.
<jba_> aah, first left, before the speed camera then?
<hypatia> On your left, six stories high, "vibe" written on the side in green, just before Rushcutter's Bay park.
<jba_> cool, it's before the park
<hypatia> Yeah, just before the camera.
<jba_> where can I park dude?
<jba_> on the street and stuff?
<hypatia> You can park in the hotel itself for, I think, $12.50.
<jba_> sounds decent, I'll be in that
<hypatia> On the street I didn't do too much looking because it's mainly 1-2 hours limited.
<jba_> hey jdub, you gonna be there ?
<jba_> hypatia, won't be able to stay long anyhow
<jba_> it will be cool to meet other sydney siders that are into oss
<hypatia> jdub is there, but I dunno how much spare time he has ;)
* hypatia is not there today but was there yesterday
<bob2> jdub is around, somewhere
<ctd> jdub is at the no-pants-parade.
<jba_> any other sydney oss'ers ?
<|QuaD-> is udu minutes, transcripts, movie, etc available anywhere?
<jba_> really don't know what I'm gonna have to offer
<jba_> I'm an oss enthusiast and have contributed to pptpclient and mono, but I mainly want to go along cause i like ubuntu so much
<ctd> jba_: you should come to slug :)
<ctd> jba_: or debsig. :)
<jba_> when where ?
<ctd> jba_: http://slug.org.au/
<Keybuk> |QuaD-: http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDownUnder/BOFs ... every BOF/meet is producing a spec there
<ctd> jba_: I beleive jdub is trying to get some of the UDU people to SLUG this Friday.
<jba_> uts broadway?
<jba_> I studdied there
<jba_> got my computer systems engineering degree there
<ctd> yeah
<jba_> what do I need to bring along?
<|QuaD-> Keybuk: beautiful, thanks
<ctd> jba_: Don't need to bring anything along really, usually we have 2x talks, though this month there'll be an LCA wrap-up as the first thing.
<jba_> ctd, did you go to uts?
<ctd> jba_: nope. :)
<jba_> i'll try and make it this friday, I have a two month old, so it will be hard
* Lathiat grins at ctd
<jba_> man I'm really drifting into the domain of geek now
<jba_> hehe
<ctd> jba_: Join the announce mailing list. :)
<jba_> ctd, dude, way to many mailing lists already
<|QuaD-> Keybuk: is that list of topics being updated as discussed?
<hypatia> I just made ttp://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/DirectionsToVenue if anyone else needs directions.
<jba_> not joining another one
<ctd> jba_: announce is very low-traffic. :)
<Keybuk> |QuaD-: yes
<jba_> no way dude, i've already been done by that one before
<|QuaD-> Keybuk: ok
<jba_> hypatia, you might want to tell people where the how to get to the seminar rooms from the street/car park
<jba_> don't have to, just a suggestion
<jba_> might try and make it for javaroadmap
<jba_> someone tell me what happens in ubuntuworldtour bof
<jba_> when is the mono bof?
<ctd> jba_: what do you mean?
<jba_> god damned schedule is impossible to search for a particualr bof
<jba_> am trying to find out what day the bof on mono is
<tfheen> somebody who is a native (or at least knows how to drive on the left side of the road and preferably knows to navigate Sydney) and has a car who would mind driving a short trip tomorrow or Thursday?
<tfheen> I need to pick up a parcel for my fiancee
<ctd> jba_: By low-traffic, I mean It's only about 2-3 emails a month
<jba_> ctd i'll think about it
<spiv> jba_: The seminar rooms are fairly clearly signposted from reception.
<ctd> jba_: http://lists.slug.org.au/listinfo/announce is the url to subscribe, feel free to look at the archives.
<tfheen> jba_: it's probably not decided yet.
<bob2> jba_: there was a mono bof this morning
<jba_> faq
<jba_> i knew i would miss it
<tseng> wait what
<jba_> ctd maybe I'll talk to yo about slug this arvo when i get there
<tseng> yes, yo umissed the mono bof
<bob2> but presumably there'll be more than one
<jba_> tseng, hey dude, it was today even eh?
<ctd> jba_: I'm not there.
<tseng> yes.
<jba_> aah
<tseng> this morning
<tseng> its on the wiki
<jba_> feck feck
<jba_> did you get many people?
<tseng> http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/Mono
<tseng> 5
<jba_> tseng, am trying to search the wiki schedule for mono, it's a pain in the ass
<bob2> jba_: there's only today's schedule
<jba_> seems like an empty template
<ctd> jba_: if you talk to jdub or lifeless they can tell you about slug.
<bob2> jba_: tommorow will be scheduled tonight
<jba_> aah
<jba_> cool then i don't feel so bad
<jba_> i'll try and catch the java one tonight then
<jba_> tseng, what are you gonna be doing tonight?
<tseng> the scheudule is irrelevant, its over
<tseng> jba_: besides sleeping?
<tseng> :P
<jba_> i mean this afternoon, as in which bof?
<|QuaD-> tseng: because the bof already happened, when can we expect to see mono?
<tseng> no, the afternoon bofs dont interest me all that much
<tseng> |QuaD-: i think i told you this, after UDU
<tseng> ajmitch_ and I are building the crack right this second.
<|QuaD-> oh, i thought you meant after the bof
<|QuaD-> cool :)
<tseng> no, we cant upload from here
* |QuaD- doesn't know what a "crack" is
<tseng> or really do anything that requires a network.
<tseng> irc is painful
<hypatia> jba_: room directions added.
<|QuaD-> haha oh
<jba_> hypatia, cool dude
<tfheen> |QuaD-: crack is, well, crack.  The drug.
<|QuaD-> tfheen: lol
<tseng> tfheen++
<jba_> ah well, maybe i'll catch up with some other time tseng
<schweeb> good lord, grumpy sounds f-ing amazing.
<schweeb> I'm speechless
<tseng> jsorry, feel free to come up and talk to me
<tseng> jba
<tseng> schweeb: uh
<thom> grumpy == CRACK
<Keybuk> ah, has mbp finished the spec?
<schweeb> it's cool crack!
* Keybuk needs to review that
<tfheen> I think it's fairly funny that grumpy is a breezy goal. :P
<Keybuk> d'oh
<jba_> tseng, won't know you from a bar of soap, hopefully you'll be wearing a name tag
<schweeb> I mean, continuously building upstream stuff, and checking what builds/doesn't build/etc... and what patches still need work... DANG
<tseng> jba_: im the good looking one
<dholbach> hey
<dholbach> cc: hi, could you have a look at ExpandingUniverse?
<schweeb> hiya dholbach
<jba_> sure, i believe that one
<cc> dholbach: ok
<dholbach> cc: rock!
<seb128> dholbach, how is the nap ? :p
<dholbach> seb128: typing in my sleep
<tseng> jba_: im in the back corner atm
<jba_> won't be there for a couple of hours
<jba_> shit it's 3:15pm already
<seb128> dholbach, I knew it, you big freak
<jba_> damn
<jba_> maybe be there sooner than that
<schweeb> I for one welcome our Grumpy Groundhog crack dealer.
<Keybuk> grumpy is total smack
<mjg59> Whack.
<mjg59> thom: NetworkManager fucks me up
<cc> dholbach: so, what is kdeapps.org ?
<cc> mjg59: NetworkManager is a pain, even on fedora
<mjg59> cc: Yeah - shame we're betting the farm on it for Breezy :)
<cc> dcbw has never really gotten it to work well; to his benefit, i think wireless networking on Linux is a bit of a flaw
<ogra> cc, kdeapps.org is the ked version of gnomefiles.org
<ogra> kde even.... sorry riddlle
<Lathiat> yeh networkmanager is definately totally pain, i've yet to geet it working.
<Lathiat> its ot helped by the dodgy wireless cards people have
<cc> mjg59: ah, well, we should have it working by FC-4 hoepfully; its a lot better in Rawhide, works for me in general now
<Lathiat> (some random dodge drivers, sucha s rt2400, and some ndiswrapper stuff)
<cc> ogra: yes, but w3m: Can't load kdeapps.org.
<tfheen> mjg59: can you check whether playing music while suspending causes your system to lose the left sound channel on resume?
<mjg59> People with dodgy network cards lose
<tseng> i have an intel
<mjg59> tfheen: Can do, but my recollection is that it works
<tseng> and im getting owned
<tfheen> mjg59: even if you're playing music while you're suspending?
<mjg59> IPW2100 and IPW2200 stuff should be fine
<mjg59> tfheen: Yes, but I'm checking now
<tseng> oh for suspend
<tfheen> mjg59: I'm talking about the left audio channel
<cc> mjg59: no! they can't lose. mark wants it working on all laptops
<ogra> cc, oh, there is a typo....http://www.kde-apps.org/
<cc> ogra: ah, ok. that makes sense
<mjg59> Or, rather, I'll check once I've found my headphones
<tfheen> mjg59: if so, I wonder wtf it doesn't for me.  And it only loses one channel, which is not fixed by reloading the modules.
<bob2> tfheen: on 2.6.10?
<tfheen> Linux thosu 2.6.10-5-686 #1 Tue Apr 5 12:27:02 UTC 2005 i686 GNU/Linux
<tfheen> current breezy
<cc> dholbach: ok, moved to EditedSpec. its also a DraftSpec status, so yeah, let it go into the review pile next...
<ogra> cc, could you review AudioCDBurning and GraphicalPartitioningTool too ?
<cc> ogra: yes, i believe they are in my queue. i will attend to them soon.
<thom> mjg59: 0.3 is teh suck, 0.4 is much, much better but unpackaged as yet (just a question of me doing it)
<Lathiat> as a point, gparted works pretty well
<dholbach> cc: cool
<mjg59> thom: Rocking
<ogra> cc, ok, thanks :)
<bob2> thom: is that waiting on new dbus?
<Lathiat> bob2: 0.32 new dbus?
<thom> (0.3 also hits a dbus bug that we shipped with, sadly)
<ogra> Lathiat, the prob is that it has dependencys that are not on the CD yet
<thom> bob2: not really waiting, since i'm running 0.32
<Lathiat> thom: hal, udev etc have all converted up to 0.32 now?
<jamesh> thom: not 0.33? :)
<Lathiat> jamesh: heh
<bob2> thom: ah
<thom> jamesh: no :P
<thom> Lathiat: all the interesting stuff has, yes
<ogra> thom, already running hal 0.5 ?
<Lathiat> thom: cool
<jamesh> thom: 0.33 has cool new python bindings
<jba_> anyone discussing pptpclient at udu?
<mjg59> tfheen: Hmm, interesting. It seems to have entirely broken for me.
<mjg59> No, let me try that again.
<thom> jamesh: shrug, when we're not bandwidth limited i'll care :-)
<daniels> new dbus -> p.u.c/~daniels/dbus/
<mjg59> tfheen: Hmm. Just worked fine for me. This is 2.6.10-3., though
<daniels> NOT THAT ANY OF YOU SHOULD DOWNLOAD IT
<sladen> tfheen/mjg59: I've seen the left-channed-only problem somewhere else, but that wasn't suspend related
<Lathiat> well im not at at UDU so i'm not  bandwidth starved :)
<mjg59> tfheen: Using esd?
<Lathiat> just contribution starved :\
<tfheen> mjg59: poly
<tfheen> mjg59: I could try with esd, though
<tfheen> sladen: it's really strange, since it's only one channel.
<thom>  /~pitti/utopia is rather more useful, since that has hal and pmount
<tfheen> daniels: get down here.
<tfheen> daniels: you're going to have a good chunk of NX crack.
<dholbach> see you later
<daniels> tfheen: oh bugger
* daniels grumps.
<jba_> hey guys is it bring your own dinner, or is a light afternoon tea available?
<sladen> tfheen: this was would have been with esd (I guess).  It's probably Alsa/routeing/mixer related
<sladen> jba_: mashed pizza I think
<Lathiat> hmm, evolutions maildir support is broken
<jba_> mmm mashed
<tfheen> sladen: yeah; restarting polyp didn't seem to make any difference.
<tfheen> sladen: reloading the modules neither, though.
<sladen> tfheen: did it ever work?
<|QuaD-> how do i get access to the OneDotZero udu bof's?
<tfheen> sladen: it works after a reboot.
<doko> jbailey: your BOF started !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
<sladen> |QuaD-: http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/DirectionsToVenue
<elmo> ARE WE THERE YET?????????????????????????????????????????????????
<Lathiat> ?!?!!?!11eleventy-one1111
<mjg59> Oh yeah ripper
<mjg59> The gnome-power-prefs UI has been sanitised since last night
<cc> elmo: can't edit the page (with the logins you recently gave us)
<Amaranth> daniels: Upload a new X, my broadband is feeling neglected! :D
<daniels> Amaranth: hah, we're bandwidth-limited here.  and I'm spending all my time talking, not hacking.
<Amaranth> daniels: I know, that's why I brought it up. :)
<Amaranth> According to Riddell sabdfl specifically told you not to upload a new X while you were there. :P
<daniels> yep
<elmo>   cc: you need to create an account
<elmo> cc: username/password I gave you is just to get you to the website, you then need to each create a login
<elmo> for yourselves
<cc> elmo: oh, right. sorry.
<cc> elmo: i presumed it was both. will do now, thanks.
<sladen> daniels: there's a network called 'default' behind the Hotel---you can warez all you want on that ;-)
<daniels> heh
<ogra> d3vic3 arrived
<dholbach> ogra: woohoo, will talk to him later
<seb128> dholbach, you unsubscribe of the whole wiki ? :)
<dholbach> seb128: yes, i did
<seb128> no comment
<ogra> tsts
<cc> daniels: what is l-r-m in terms of xorg context ?
<dholbach> linux-restricted-modules
<ogra> cc, nvidia and ati binary drivers are in there (the actual modules)
<cc> ah, okay, thanks
* cc really should start using ubuntu more, rather than just for the one-off project
<ogra> everybody should start using ubuntu ;)
<Lathiat> :)
<|QuaD-> ogra: :)
<Riddell> cc: naw, use kubuntu
<Lathiat> pffft  :)
<tseng> kubuntu: the k is for krack
<tfheen> $ apt-cache show krack | grep ^Description
<tfheen> Description: get your daily fix
<Lathiat> tfheen: :)
* Lathiat grumbles at work
* tfheen wonders how many actually ran that command.
<Lathiat> i've coded enough php in the last couple months to demoralize anyon
<Lathiat> tfheen: yuh :)
<tfheen> d3vic3 :)
<d3vic3> hi tfheen 
<tseng> Lathiat: ive been writing php using mysql and snmp
<tseng> Lathiat: total crack.
<ctd> snmp is a good php editor
<tseng> huh?
<Lathiat> ctd: eh?
<Lathiat> tseng: mmmm
<Lathiat> well ive just been writing an online store system
<Lathiat> and its killing me :)
<tseng> thats easy
<Lathiat> yes i know but php is bad for the soul and my client keeps wanting to add stuff that requires restructing the way i do things that he didn't tell me before.. continually :)
<tseng> tfheen: 31337 typing!
<Lathiat> mjg59: ping
<cc> Riddell: err, no. i'm a gnome person
<jbailey> mjg59: There?
<bob2> anyone know where mpt is?
<jsgotangco> hmm i think i saw him upstairs half an hour ago
<ctd> you all need tracking devices
<jsgotangco> well we have nametags for starters
<jsgotangco> hehe
* tfheen blips a bit
<jsgotangco> the wifi has improved a bit
<ctd> yeah
<ctd> the nametag they gave me did have a fancy ubuntu logo
<ctd> I guess I'm not speshal enough
<jsgotangco> eh?
<jsgotangco> everyone's part of the love
<jsgotangco> hehe
<ctd> so I drew my one love-circle.
<Simira> :)
<jsgotangco> doh
* Simira also wants some Ubuntu-love. Norway is lonely right now...
<Lathiat> perth is lonely :(
<ctd> sydney is alive
<ctd> aliiiiiiive!
<jsgotangco> i looovvee sydney
<Simira> Lathiat: Perth is almost in Sydney! At least compared to Norway....
<Lathiat> i guess
* tfheen kisses Simira
<ctd> perhaps I should've come along today.
<Mirv> #ubuntu-devel has been transformed to #ubuntu-love? :)
<Simira> anf now he tries to get the nest conf so har away I can't go there, either...
<tseng> #tollef-love
<Mirv> well then, love from Finland, too
<tseng> mad <3s
<tfheen> tseng: she's my fiancee, though
<tseng> I'm not!
<Simira> tseng: stay off, he's mine!
<tseng> :(
* tfheen cuddles Simira a bit
<Simira> yes, how IS Cuddles, btw?
<Simira> did he get his keyring yet?
<tfheen> he's hanging on
<tfheen> no, I haven't been outside yet.
<Simira> that's good
<jsgotangco> is there wifi in forum?
<Simira> that he's in, I mean
<tfheen> Simira: hoping to get that fixed tomorrow or the day after, when picking up your parcel.
<tfheen> just need to find a native guide.
<tfheen> (or a native driver)
<Simira> :)
* sladen gets shown 'who' Cuddles is
<tfheen> he's a who!
<tseng> hes's a firefox.
<tfheen> he rocks
<tfheen> he's a world-travelling firefox
* ogra prefers the flying foxes outside
<jsgotangco> i dont see them
<cc> lifeless: poke; have the changes janew asked you to make, been made?
<ogra> jsgotangco, wait until its dark, then go to te terrace
<jsgotangco> you mean the bats?
<cc> lifeless: this being re the wiki
<ogra> jsgotangco, there are 20 - 40 hanging in the big tree 
<ogra> yep
<jsgotangco> ohhh maybe after dinner
<jsgotangco> hehe
<tseng> Simira: http://tseng.ath.cx/images/firefox.jpg
<dholbach> mvo: how's the hacking going?
<tseng> Simira: cuddle nap.
<Riddell> anyone interested in a freenz bof?
<tfheen> does moin provide RSS feeds of any kind?
<Riddell> freenx
<tfheen> Riddell: freenz?
<Riddell> daniels?
<tfheen> Riddell: you should have been at the LowBandwidthX one
<Riddell> tfheen: when was that?
<tfheen> an hour ago
<dholbach> tseng, ajmitch, ogra, Riddell, koke: http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/UniverseCandidates :)
<Riddell> FasterNetworkedX?
<tseng> dholbach: wee
<mvo> dholbach: good, good
<tfheen> Riddell: http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/FasterNetworkedX
<seb128> dholbach, stop abusing the bandwith with huge wiki pages
<Simira> tseng :)
<tseng> Simira: i might have one of tfh
<jam> jbailey: ping, do you want to come to the NFSroot session ?
<dholbach> seb128: abusing? you just uploaded the new gnome... so don't complain
<Simira> tseng: I've several ;)
<seb128> dholbach, ups, I did it again ? :)
<Amaranth> new GNOME?
<Amaranth> woohoo, new crack!
* thom tries not imagine seb as britney
<d3vic3> hehehe 
<dholbach> seb128: you have millions of fans
<tseng> ouch.
<ogra> evolution will follow soon ;) 
<daniels> Riddell: you missed it :P
<Riddell> so I did
<thom> all it really needs is an oo.o-amd64 upload ;-)
<ogra> yeah
<daniels> and xorg too
<ogra> thom, but oo.o2 please
<Riddell> daniels: well good, that means it's your responsibility to get freenx packaged :)
<daniels> i think it's new upstream version o'clock, xorgwise
<daniels> Riddell: nope, actually we decided all the solutions were total crack
<daniels> Riddell: the kalyxo guys did some packages of freenx earlier, but the packages were crap and kalyxo's dead now
<tfheen> thom: I've done an ia32-libs upload here, but that was remotely, though.
<Riddell> daniels: Implementation Plan doesn't say it's crack
<Riddell> daniels: kalyxo may disagree to being dead
<ogra> tfheen, oh, great, then we all can pull it down now ?
<ogra> ;)
<tfheen> Riddell: I was trying to be nice.
<tfheen> ogra: no, it's not merged.
<ogra> ah, sad...
<daniels> Riddell: 
<daniels> daniels@catsby:~% host www.kalyxo.org
<daniels> Host www.kalyxo.org not found: 3(NXDOMAIN)
<jsgotangco> dholbach, we're about to start on LoCo teams here at forum you might be interested
<dholbach> jsgotangco: oh cool, be right at you
<ajmitch_> dholbach: lovely UniverseCandidates pages :)
<ajmitch_> too late..
<Amaranth> woohoo, mono 1.1.6
<Lathiat> in ubuntu?
<Amaranth> soon
<Amaranth> http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/breezy-changes/2005-April/003556.html
<Lathiat> cool :)
<ajmitch_> hopefully it won't be too broken.. we've still got to upload a slightly fixed version after this one
<ajmitch_> (not doing this on UDU bandwidth, of course)
<Treenaks> has beagle landed yet?
<ajmitch_> no, this is the first part to go in
<Amaranth> beagle will take a new kernel
<Treenaks> Amaranth: fabbione is working on that, right? :)
<Amaranth> afaik
<ajmitch_> don't expect uploads for awhile then :)
<Amaranth> damn UDU bandwidth
<Amaranth> ah well, that means when you all get done lots of stuff will pour in all at once
<Amaranth> unless you've been drinking instead of packaging :D
<ajmitch_> perhaps
<ajmitch_> we've been planning rather than packaging
<Amaranth> planning is good
<Amaranth> if the g-a-i + CnR app is going to be written in Python I might try to help
<ajmitch_> yes, it will
<mjg59> We have a good enough inotify for Beagle in the packages aimed for Breezy
<ajmitch_> talk to mvo about that one
<Amaranth> breezy is getting 0.0.8?
<tseng> 0.0.9.1
<tseng> er
<tseng> .1 was .8.. .9 it is
<tseng> we just uploaded mono
<tseng> or, stage 1
<ajmitch_> waiting for binaries now
<tseng> yep
<Burgundavia> crap
<Burgundavia> is the login for the launchpad wiki the same as lauchpad?
<tseng> for malone its the same as the wiki
<tseng> if that means anything
<Burgundavia> ok
<Burgundavia> that is odd
<ogra> lamont_r, http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/m/mono/1.1.6-2ubuntu1/mono_1.1.6-2ubuntu1_20050426-0841-powerpc-successful
<ogra> ?
<ogra> lamont_r, nevermind, its there now
<Lathiat> after this, if soeone would jut fix up the evolution stuff, we'd be all set :)
<seb128> don't look on me
<thom> Burgundavia: it's not the same for the launchpad wiki, still private afaik
<Lathiat> woo, the 2.6.12 kernel images works perfectly for me
* Amaranth waits for the crack to mirror
<Amaranth> :)
<elmo> E: mysql-dfsg is trying to override mysql-client_4.0.23-3ubuntu2 without -f/--force.
<elmo> whine
<elmo> this is getting annoying
<Burgundavia> thom, thanks
<Burgundavia> thom, is there a plan to get that stuff moved into the public sphere?
<thom> NFC
<thom> sorry
<Burgundavia> NFC?
<tfheen> no fucking clue, usually
<Burgundavia> ah
<tfheen> (replace the f word with random other f word at your leisure
<tfheen> )
<Burgundavia> many bad jokes could now be made about me and clue, but I resist
* lamont_r wonders if that's related to KFC...
<tseng> keine fucking clue.
<tfheen> kde foundation classes?
<tseng> thats synomymous
<daniels> tfheen: kde has no such thing :P
<tfheen> daniels: untrue, it's just called kdelibs. :P
<cartman> umm so we got foundation classes :S
<daniels> sure, but they're not called foundation classes :)
<daniels> there's just a set of base libraries that most people happen to have installed
<cartman> yep and api is more sane than MFC
<cartman> :)
<tfheen> cc: what's the way to signal that on would like a review of a braindump ATM?
<cc> tfheen: if you just leave it at BrainDump status, we will review it. Once we review it, we move it to EditedSpec status
<cc> tfheen: but because it goes thru two sets of editorial approval and review, it usually stops happening at 5pm when simon leaves (but his queue just grows larger and larger for the next day :P)
<tfheen> cc: oh, ok.
<tfheen> cc: just wondering since I have one which seemingly nothing happened to, but that's ok then.
<cc> tfheen: which one is that?
<tfheen> FasterNetworkedX
<cc> tfheen: will look at it soon
<tfheen> I'd actually like some help on that since I'm not used to writing specs and I think it's not good enough, but it's hard.
<tfheen> (to write good specs)
<cc> tfheen: a lot have been surprisingly doing a good job; btw if you want help, rock up at the room when free
<tfheen> cc: there's an interesting BOF starting just now, but if you're going to be around after this one, I'd love to.
<cc> tfheen: i'll be around i'm sure till 8ish.. i mean what else would i do with my life right? ;-)
<tfheen> heh ;)
<Lathiat> tfheen: what spec?
<tfheen> cc: 10:26 < tfheen> FasterNetworkedX
<bob2> mjg59: beer + steak > *
<tfheen> uhm
<tfheen> s/cc/Lathiat/
* tfheen can't read
<tfheen> (or write)
<mjg59> bob2: Meeting a friend, Im afraid
<Lathiat> tfheen: ah, seen lbxproxy?
<Robot101> Lathiat: more likely to be about NX
<Robot101> Lathiat: which aggressively caches and avoids tens of round trips
<Lathiat> Robot101: ah
<Lathiat> Robot101: cool
<Robot101> making X usable over like modems :)
<Lathiat> yeh some novel people showed us that at some PLUG meeting once
<lifeless> cc: ping
<elmo> stub: where r u?
<Treenaks> Robot101: cool!
<dilinger> so if i want further input on BootLogd, I should just leave it at BrainDump?
<cc> lifeless: pong
<cc> lifeless: janew figured WikiNameQueue would be the way to go as opposed to WaitingOnWikiName (it would be what mark would prefer). so sorry, but you have to go in there and make that magic change again 
<cc> lifeless: so the idea is to make it exactly like the launchpad wiki (which works great, tbh - we just didn't know about it till today)
<jordi> swimmingpool, anyone?
<jordi> carlos: are you done?
<carlos> jordi: it depends on how do you define "done"
<astharot> ciao
<jordi> carlos: do you have stuff to do? Or is it swimming time? :)
<carlos> jordi: I'm too tired to go to the pool...
<jordi> dude
<jordi> that's relaxing you know
* mdke shakes head
<jordi> anyway, going downstairs.
<mdke> carlos, come on man you're in australia
<mdke> :)
<carlos> mdke: dude!, you had a bof today
<carlos> jordi: ok, I'm in the bar atm
<mdke> carlos, tbh I assumed it was a typo
<mdke> also I'm on the exact opposite side of the world
<carlos> I suppose...
<carlos> 18:30-19:15
<carlos> 
<carlos> WikiTransitionPlan
<carlos> 
<carlos> hno73
<carlos> 
<carlos> mdke
<carlos> 
<jsgotangco> i told you you were supposed to be on that bof online or not
<carlos> silbs 
<mdke> jsgotangco, i was already sleeping when you said that
<mdke> :(
<jsgotangco> hmm
<mdke> carlos, i know nothing about it anyhow, i assumed it was a typo for mdz
<jsgotangco> well i think the artwork bof did well
<mdke> jsgotangco, there are online bofs?
<jsgotangco> we'll probably have no problems with late minute artwork changes *grin*
<jsgotangco> well we do have wifi here so we usually hold bofs while in irc as well
<mdke> dammit
<mdke> i might have been able to get up
<Lathiat> there are online bofs?
<thom> oh well, we've done the wiki transition plan; it'll be scary
<jsgotangco> ackk
<jsgotangco> mdke, its yours
<mdke> thom, really?
<alexissoft> hi
<carlos> mdke: jane said it was not a problem, she will send you a document about the wiki to discuss it offline
<thom> mdke: yeah, silbs should be writing it up soonish
<mdke> carlos, i haven't really been involved with those discussions, but i'm sure the docteam would love to discuss
<mdke> thom, cool
<cc> jordi: swimmingpool requires attire right?
<mdke> *laughs*
<lifeless> cc: right, its done
<cc> lifeless: yeah, noticed; thanks
<alexissoft> re
<Taliesin`> Hi hi, Im running a local Ubuntu mirror here in Australia, however I noticed it's started re-rsyncing everything, now it was previously 75gig, anyone know what the current size of the rsync is (it's still rsync, but only at 30ush%)
<Taliesin`> and or is their a ubuntu-mirrors mailing list at all?
<ctd> Taliesin`: If you don't mind me asking, where's the mirror?
<Taliesin`> ctd, gee your name rings a bell
<Taliesin`> ftp.filearena.net
<Taliesin`> or http://ftp.filearena.net
<Taliesin`> both /pub/ubuntu/
<Taliesin`> it's currently not rsync'ing now so it's a broken mirror until a few hours from now so i can clear off some space on that drive
<ctd> right, just curious.
* Taliesin` raises eyebrows
<ctd> always nice to know local mirrors. :)
<Taliesin`> hehe
<Taliesin`> Within Australia eh?
<ctd> Yeap.
<Taliesin`> prolly why i've seen your nick before.
<Taliesin`> Not a gamer or anything aswell, or use to be did ya?
<ctd> Nope.
<Taliesin`> hmm *ponders* oh well
<ctd> lca?
<Taliesin`> Thats possbiel, whirlpool?
<ctd> possibly
<Taliesin`> ctd.id.au :)
<Taliesin`> yeah thought i seen you around, read your site a few times before
<ctd> oh noes, I've been found out. :)
<Taliesin`> :>
<Taliesin`> not this years LCA thou
<Taliesin`> wrong side of the country
<Taliesin`> last years i could of made but couldnt afford it on my own, whinged on whingepool (would you beleive) and got a job over it, lmao :)
<ctd> sounds like an alright deal.
<Lathiat_> Taliesin`: you from perth?
<Taliesin`> Adelaide ;)
<Lathiat_> uh how is it the wrong side of the country then :)
<Taliesin`> is for me
<Taliesin`> :P
<Taliesin`> (my perspective of how big australia is)
<Lathiat_> im from perth
<Lathiat_> so, sif :)
<mvirkkil> Managed to load an image with bogl and even get the colors right :-)
<mvirkkil> What bdf font does the debian installer use?
<abelli> ogra: ping
<sivang> howdy all
<sivang> what's up everyone?
<Simira> I think they're sleeping ;)
<Simira> at least I know Tollef is
<Taliesin`> :P
<ctd> I wouldn't be surprised.
<Simira> or on their way to. It's about eleven o'clock there, and they have busy days.
<ctd> the installfest was a retreat for some yesterday.
<mpt> lucky sleeping people
<ctd> they wouldn't be sleeping had my ibook's sleep not started working. :)
<sivang> Simira: hi there simiar, sad to stay at home isn't it ? :-(
* sivang shares the grief
<Simira> sivang: definitely. I'm quite lonely. Next time I'm coming, no matter what (or, rather, where).
<sivang> Simira: well, for me it was also depending on financial ability ;-) but that might change soon
<Simira> sivang: well, theoretically for me too. But if I don't get a sponsorship, I'll have to beg my fiance to pay for me.
<sivang> Simira: heheh
<sivang> Simira: plus I hope the august conf would take place in somewhere more european :-)
<Simira> andhe's hopefully got a decent paid Canonical-job within then :p
<sivang> Simira: I wouldn't mind coming to spain again...
<Simira> sivang: I definitely wouldn't mind European conf, though the chances are low, I believe. South Africa, or maybe Canada, is mentioned (as wishes)
<sivang> Simira: but then again it would be far and expensive to EU close people :-)
<sivang> anyway, I have to run, cheers Simira ! my regards to Tollef ;-)
<mpt> Some of us have already done South Africa this year
<mpt> Somewhere else would be nice :-)
<Lathiat_> you need a conference in perth, western australia :)
<ctd> nobodycon
<ctd> attendees: lathiat
<Lathiat_> heh
<Taliesin`> file has vanished: "pool/main/s/squid/squid_2.5.9-4.diff.gz" (in ubuntu)
<Taliesin`> file has vanished: "pool/main/s/squid/squid_2.5.9-4.dsc" (in ubuntu)
<Taliesin`> eek
<ctd> panic
<Lathiat_> Can you get gamin to switch to inode runtime rather than compile?
<Lathiat_> *inotify
<mpt> Lathiat_: Perth would be great
<Lathiat_> mpt: :)
<jdub> Lathiat_: it does it at runtime - you can only disable completely at build time
<Lathiat_> right
<Lathiat_> just curious cus gamin doesnt seem ot be seeing my desktop udpates with 2.6.12 kernel that has inotify
<jdub> have you got the gamin inotify patches?
* jordi declares that jdub is the lucky guy. Back home, I'm the one giving massages.
<jordi> Free style, though.
* mpt declares that jdub is up too late
<Lathiat_> jdub: nah im just using the packaged one
<jdub> oddly enough, i'm waiting for pia to decide to go home
<jdub> Lathiat_: some more recent patches on gamin-list
<Lathiat> rightio
<Lathiat> i'll go fetch them later
<jdub> hrm, power almost out
<Lathiat> is there some standard library for talking over unix sockets
<Lathiat> like packing data into some binary format and sending it accross
<Lathiat> or shoudl i just implement my own like everyone else?
<ogra> jdub, there are wallplugs around ;)
<zyga> Lathiat: what kind of data/
<Lathiat> zyga: basically making function calls
<Lathiat> with integer and string arguments
<Lathiat> very basic rpc
<zyga> Lathiat: rpc ;0
<Lathiat> (but im tryign to keep depedencies down and small, so like, im not using d-bus)
<zyga> Lathiat: can't you use rpc?
<Lathiat> zyga: is it heavy and ugly?
<zyga> Lathiat: well if you want to package ints and strings then I guess rpc is more than you need 
<Lathiat> yeh 
<zyga> Lathiat: some string libraries have networking capabilities, packaging included
<Stewie> hi, I'm having an issue with the rt2500 driver on amd64 hoary.. I think it's a kernel issue (pci_resource_start is returning 0 as is pci_resource_len)
<Stewie> is here a good place to ask questions?
<zul> yes #ubuntu
<Stewie> I suspect it's probably an upstream issue (I haven't tried a vanilla kernel yet though)
<zul> there isnt rt2500 support in the hoary kernel 
<Stewie> zul: yes.. correct
<Stewie> I'm compiling the drivers from rt2400.sf.net
<Stewie> but I'm pretty sure there's nothing in the drivers causing the problem
<zul> check with them
<Stewie> zul: I've ripped all the code out of the driver, all it does it pci_enable and try to ioremap
<Lathiat> Stewie: send us the ripped out source
<Lathiat> Stewie: also have you tried the cvs rt2x00 stuff?
<Stewie> Lathiat: not yet.. that was next on my list of things to try
<Lathiat> the rt2400 cvs driver works much better
<Lathiat> the released one froze my laptop and stuff
<zul> also it might not be 64bit safe
<Lathiat> that too
<Stewie> Lathiat: http://www.lbedford.org/code/rt2500
<Stewie> Lathiat: the same card and drivers (rt2500) work fine on ubuntu x86_32.. the main difference I can see is in lspci.. instead of "Memory at 40800000 (32-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=8K] " I get "Memory at <ignored> "
<Lathiat> sound slike its non 64bit safe
<Lathiat> time to become a kernel hacker :)
<Stewie> fun :)
<Lathiat> i just did a kernel tute on writing pci device drivers last week
<Lathiat> dont think it quite prepared me for figuring out whats wrong with 64 stuff but :)
<Stewie> I think it's the yenta_socket driver..
<sm-work> good morning all
<sm-work> does anyone know the license/reuse status/author of the new site skin ? not just the css but the actual page templates
<GheRivero> res
<Simira> honey!
<tfheen> hello dear
<mdke> anyone seen hno73 around?
<Netsnipe> yah! a -devel channel for ubuntu
<Netsnipe> I'm writing a quick blurb about the state of Linux on laptops right now
<Netsnipe> and I need a definitive answer on this (short of installing ubuntu myself)
<Keybuk> this is a place to discuss development of Ubuntu, not a place to try and get developer attention
<Netsnipe> what wireless firmware is hoary shipping with?
<tfheen> lots
* mdke points at releases.ubuntu.com/hoary
<tfheen> $ ls /lib/hotplug/firmware/*2.6.10-5-686* |wc -l
<tfheen> 28
<Netsnipe> tfheen: can you paste the ls in a /query?
#ubuntu-devel 2005-05-08
* Clint giggles.
<tfheen> done
<Netsnipe> tfheen: thanks
<Netsnipe> tfheen: i see you're in .au now
<tfheen> yeah
<tfheen> UDU
<Netsnipe> tfheen: ?
<tfheen> Ubuntu Down Under, the development conference in Sydney this week
<Netsnipe> ah
<mdke> Netsnipe, http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/HardwareSupport might help, if you haven't already seen it
<Netsnipe> mdke: ta
<tseng> good morning sydney
<Simira> good morning tseng and Sydney
<tseng> hi Simira 
<thechitowncubs> Since you guys are the developers 
<thechitowncubs> I'd thought I'd ask a quick question... is it possible to rebuild the previews for the themes in the themes preferences dialog (my previews aren't showing up anymore)
<dholbach> hey
<jsgotangco> hola
<hypatia> tseng: You about?
<thechitowncubs> Hey
<hypatia> tseng: I seem to have somehow ended up as a lead on http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/IntroDeveloperDocs with you as second??
* hypatia is not quite sure how this came about
<hypatia> Especially since I'm not there today ;)
<thechitowncubs> just curious, how did you guys get into linux at first?
<louie> jdub: ?
<tseng> hypatia: hi.
<tseng> hypatia: the managers added you as first, i added as second, as i prposed it
<hypatia> Right.
<hypatia> That's a bit odd, because I'm not a sponsered attendee.
<tseng> are you present?
<hypatia> No.
<tseng> alright.
<hypatia> tseng: I'm still happy to help out and even to work on the spec.
<hypatia> But lead might be expecting a bit much :)
<tseng> hypatia: sure. ill replace you on the bof
<hypatia> tseng: spiv was the one who pointed it out to me.
<hypatia> tseng: he said he's talk to the managers.
<tseng> i havent seen it scheduled yet anyway
<hypatia> It's on today's schedule at 10:45.
<hypatia> tseng: Well, fill me in on how the BoF goes and on what work is needed. I can meet you on Saturday if that helps.
<jdub> hypatia: nicw blog entry
<tseng> hypatia: sure.
<hypatia> jdub: really? I thought you'd think it was a bit negative.
<hypatia> I shouldn't do thinking for other people.
<tseng> hypatia: ill try and find another second just for management sake
<hypatia> tseng: sure, thanks.
<louie> blah
* louie sends death rays at the printer
<tseng> hypatia: whiprush and jerome are going to attend.
<hypatia> tseng: cool.
<jdub> hypatia: it's accurate.
<hypatia> it does sound like a project I'd be interested in working on.
<jdub> hypatia: and a lot of people agree with you.
<hypatia> it was just a surprise to see me volunteered for it.
<tseng> jdub: put mary back on planet!
<hypatia> tseng: if involved people have time on Saturday we can talk about it.
<hypatia> tseng: I'm not a member yet. I'll put myself up at the next CC meeting with the specific aim of being re-planeted.
<tseng> ok great.
<tseng> hypatia: :D
<Amaranth> grr, where the heck is mono?
<Amaranth> it got accepted and built successfully last night
<Amaranth> when do the mirrors sync?
<hypatia> tseng: looking forward to it. Yay docs.
<jsgotangco> hypatia, you rock
<hypatia> thanks :)
<hypatia> looking forward to chatting to you Saturday as well.
<jsgotangco> No problem
<jsgotangco> im going up
<Unfrgiven> tseng: i'll be interested in the IntroDeveloperDocs BOF as well (I'm Ankur, the guy who was there for the Mono Bof with u and ajmitch). i'm hoping to come to the IntroDeveloperDoc Bof but the technician to repair my laptop is due this morning, so it depends on that.
<hypatia> tseng, Unfrgiven: latest word from spiv is that they'll try to reschedule to Saturday anyway, so that I can be there.
<hypatia> but who knows really, the scheduling must be evil incarnate by now.
<Unfrgiven> hypatia: :)
<tseng> hypatia: great thanks
<tseng> spiv: so, is the bof this session moved?
<spiv> tseng: JaneW/cvd said it would be, but they were swamped by tshirts, so probably best to get them to confirm.
<tseng> spiv: ok.
<tseng> she just walked out
<tseng> win
<Unfrgiven> tseng: my laptop repair guy is here so im not going to be able to make this bof if its scheduled now.. ill definately be there if its some other time.
<hypatia> Unfrgiven: well, if it's now I won't be there either!
<Unfrgiven> hypatia: yeah good point
<jsgotangco> its rescheduled for saturday accdg to tseng 
<hypatia> Sounds good.
<tfheen> fabbione: ping?
<tfheen> fabbione: we have a writeup in twenty minutes; I'm in sublime 2 so if you'd just come here when you're free
<thom> tfheen/fabbione: i dumped the notes from the bof yesterday into the wiki, ping if there are questions...
<tfheen> thom: yay; you're welcome to come join us if you'd like. :)
<tfheen> (and I think fabbione is not on IRC atm , since his client is just his danish one so if somebody sees him, it would be nice if you could relay from me)
<dilinger> he was just at the kernel bof
<dilinger> but he ran off to write up stuff
<tfheen> ok, he'll run past here, then
<dilinger> and he's back
<tfheen> care to ask him to come to sublime 2 when he's ready for the xen writeup?
<fabbione> tfheen: i am here in global...
<fabbione> did thombot add his notes to the wiki?
<tfheen> fabbione: 03:27 < thom> tfheen/fabbione: i dumped the notes from the bof yesterday into the wiki, ping if there are questions...
<fabbione> roger
<fabbione> tfheen: i am on the way up
<tfheen> fabbione: yay
<tfheen> ooh, cutting and pasting with irssi and pterm outside screen actually work correctly without munging the lines.  YAY!
<thom> cc: um, how are you guys providing feedback? FasterBoot just reappeared in my queue and i have no lcue why or what i should do? :-)
<cc> thom: i dont know actually; simon seemed to have pushed it back to you. now, do you need another BOF?
<mpt> thom: http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/FasterBoot?action=info
<cc> thom: if no, remove UduBof, and change to EditedSpecification. i've given you permission (i read it and fleshed it out last night anyways)
<thom> cc: ok, right. will do (we're not planning on having another bof)
<thom> cc: thanks
<cc> thom: ok, so, i hope to see it as EditedSpecification
<dholbach> doko: nice to have you around
<fabbione> mjg59: ping?
<fabbione> pitti: ping?
<dholbach> pitti: fabbione pinged you 7 minutes ago
<dholbach> jdub: can you mail me or upload our UbuntuAndUpstreams stuff?
<fabbione> we are in the same room :)
<dholbach> fabbione: i don't really want to know what you guys are doing ;-p
<fabbione> dholbach: pitti is yelling to push more....
<zul> lalala...i didnt hear that
<dholbach> fabbione: i know... he always did it when he was in our room
<zul> *sigh* wont someone please think of the children
<mjg59> thom: gpe-bluetooth has a moderate number of gpe library references, but they're almost entirely:
<mjg59> a) in the OBEX vcard parsing
<mjg59> b) system tray stuff
<mjg59> c) icon stuff
<mjg59> So that's easy enough to deal with
<thom> hrm, that should be easy enough to rip out
* cc should
<cc> i should've brought the iPaq. gpe-bluetooth is on it :P
<mjg59> cc: Yeah, we've been playing with mine
<tfheen> jbailey: hmm; wrt initramfs, you're going to upload crackoftheday stuff post-UDU, I guess.
<pitti> dholbach: fabbione just talked to me
<tfheen> we should have jabber notifications or something as the proposals flow through
<cc> tfheen: xen is a go after simon looks at it
<tfheen> cc: I just noticed.
<fabbione> mjg59: do we have any more session on livecdperformance?
<fabbione> mjg59: otherwise we should review the specs you wrote down adn send them to cc
<tfheen> cc: the process then is he puts it back in my queue, I put it in MattZimmermanQueue?
<cc> tfheen: no, you go and move it to EditedSpec queue (physically, you move the post-it note), and then someone (mdz/mark) looks at it and approves it
<tfheen> cc: is this documented somewhere? :)
<cc> tfheen: no, it was said during monday's welcoming; i reckon it probably deserves a wiki page; will get to it when i get a free moment, okay?
<tfheen> cc: I can give it a shot and you can correct me?
<tfheen> it should probably be the specspec page, actually. :P
<cc> tfheen: sure, have fun :P
<jbailey> tfheen: Sure.  I don't imagine that elmo
<jbailey> tfheen: 's processing NEW right at the moment. =)
<tfheen> jbailey: he's such a lazy bum. ;P
* tfheen hides
<jsgotangco> jdub, GO UP NOW FOR LiveCD training BOF
<jsgotangco> mako, ping
<fabbione> pitti: i think i found the command to reset the alsa layer via esd without killing the server
<fabbione> pitti: do you still have the test setup?
<fabbione> pitti: nevermind that symbol is not exported via libasound
<mako> jsgotangco: hola
<mako> amu, Riddell: around?
<mako> is there a place i can poinit people who want to contribute kubuntu artwork?
<ogra> mako, Riddell has set up a MOTUKDE team wiki page....i guess that would be that place
<tfheen> cc: uhm, Xen now includes editedspec as well as draftspec, that's broken, right?
<cc> tfheen: definintely; why is that so? i remember deleting draftspec and only having editedspec
<tfheen> cc: no idea
<cc> tfheen: oh, i didn't delete it; i let simon vet it once, and he didn't delete it
<cc> tfheen: he should fix it now. i just larted him
<tfheen> cc: ah, ok.  Thanks
<mako> ogra: for artwork?
<tfheen> cc: you have SpecProcess in your queue now.
<cc> tfheen: hah. nice.
<tfheen> it's written according to how I've understood the process, so on items where it's inaccurate, it might be good to note that specifically as I'm probably not the only one to have misunderstood.
<cc> tfheen: you're Lead :)
<tfheen> cc: uhm, ok.  If you say so.
<tfheen> cc: just edit it appropriately and I'll go move my Xen post-it note.
<dilinger> heh, that's what this conference needs.  kool-aid
<dilinger> named after tools, of course. so, we can drink the baz or launchpad koolaid
<dholbach> Unfrgiven: are you there?
<amu> mako: yep
<dholbach> Unfrgiven: does 15:30 at "forum" sound fine to you?
<mako> amu: Riddell gave me the answer
<cc> tfheen: get janew to take a pass thru, and i think tomorrow everyone gets to read that :)
<fabbione> mjg59: dude?
<tfheen> cc: yay, cool.
<tfheen> cc: it should explain what NewSpec means
<tfheen> cc: and it says '"CCQ or SSQ" (yes, both of them.)' which doesn't make sense.
<Unfrgiven> dholback: yes ill be there
<Unfrgiven> anyone know which room dholback is right now?
<tseng> Unfrgiven: lunch.
<tseng> Unfrgiven: he should be back in gloabal soon.
<tseng> Unfrgiven: im in global now if you want something MOTU.
<tfheen> cc: you saw my comments?
<cc> tfheen: i just got back from lunch man! but yeah i'll be looking at 'em soon. its not highpriority at the moment. i have some launchpad stuff on my plate
<tfheen> cc: ack, just checking since I was offline for lunch so I wouldn't have seen any comments from you on it
<tseng> i just had some food on my plate
<tseng> it was nice.
<mpt> Kamion: ping
<|QuaD-> tseng: i saw the beginings of mono 1.1.6 in breezy, congrats
<Unfrgiven> tseng: ill come to global and see him shortly.
<Unfrgiven> tseng: thanks anyways
<tfheen> buntu starting in global now
<tseng> |QuaD-: its hardly ready.
<pitti> elmo: here? are you interested in AutomatedTesting BoF? (sublime 2)
<cc> daf: ping
<sladen> cc: he /was/ sitting next to me, just left
<mpt> cc: He's in the Forum
* Amaranth wants new crack :/
<cc> mpt: ok, i just need him to clarify something about his countryspecificlangs
<elmo> pitti: yes, but I'm alos interested in cluster fses :(
<Kamion> mpt: pong
<mpt> Kamion: I see you're on InstallerSimpleResize ... I have some UI mockups I did for resizing partitions in 2002, would they be useful for you at all?
<Kamion> mpt: I don't think the UI is the problem
<Kamion> mpt: simpleresize shouldn't even HAVE a UI, it should just do it :)
<Kamion> apart from maybe a progress bar
<Kamion> simpleresize is a "make space for Ubuntu, somehow" option - there's not a lot of user interaction there
<mpt> Kamion: So you shouldn't be able to decide, for example, how much of the space left over is available for each OS?
<Kamion> nope
<Kamion> it's simple
<Kamion> in every sense of that word
<mpt> ok
<Kamion> the BOF will be about how to make that not suck ... :)
<Kamion> mpt: (although I guess I can imagine a percentage slider or something - that's hard to do in debconf though, so we *might* be better avoiding it)
<mpt> Yeah, my mockup has sliders :-)
<Kamion> mpt: if you want to link to your mockups on the wiki page, that could be useful
<mpt> Ok, they're not online anywhere
<Kamion> suppose I could implement a slider custom widget
<mpt> I'll make a separate page for them
<Kamion> ok, thanks
<|QuaD-> i have a question, what are the disadvantages of installers like mepis's (from the liveCD)
<Kamion> |QuaD-: it's important for us only to have to fix bugs in one place; therefore integration is a very high priority
<Kamion> this isn't something that people who only have a live CD installer (and not a regular one) have to think about
<tfheen> Kamion: where are you ATM?
<Kamion> tfheen: global
<tfheen> oh, there you are
<|QuaD-> Kamion: right, which is why i am wondering what the disadvantages are, why more distributions aren't going to it
<Unfrgiven> anyone know the whereabouts of dholbach atm?
<tseng> he is coming!
<tseng> forum.
<Kamion> |QuaD-: I just told you :-)
<mpt> Kamion: ok, page now linked to from InstallerSimpleResize
<Kamion> |QuaD-: most distributions already have an installer, and maintaining more than one set of installer code really sucks, so nobody wants to do it
<|QuaD-> Kamion: but why not ditch the installer
<fabbione> jdub: ?
<Kamion> because it has a lot of development effort put into it, and a lot of bug fixes
<Kamion> you cannot just "ditch the installer"
<fabbione> jdub: the wiki just trashed all your changes to ClusterFileSystem
<Kamion> not if you're sensible
<fabbione> have a nice day, kthxbye
<|QuaD-> Kamion: but you would be creating a more optimal environment
<Kamion> we will instead be writing a live CD installer that is tightly integrated with our existing installer
<|QuaD-> isn't it easier to maintain just alivecd/installer combo than 2 seperate?
<Kamion> we still need a normal installer
<|QuaD-> Kamion: ok
<Kamion> people installing a bank of servers will not be interested in something that only supports installation from live CD
<Kamion> and they will go and use something else
<Kamion> mpt: thanks, looks interesting
<|QuaD-> Kamion: ok, that makes sense
<Kamion> mpt: that mockup is kind of interesting when it comes to languages that have more plural forms than just "singular" and "plural", though ;)
<mpt> Kamion: True, that hadn't occurred to me three years ago :-)
<thom> mjg59: dude, you're supposed to be in forum for HWDBRoadmap
<dilinger> sladen: ping
<fabbione> cc: ping?
<fabbione> cc: http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/ClusterFilesystems <- up for your review
<cc> fabbione: rock; will do it soonish
<lifeless> grumpy is for ricers .... gentoo on speed
<ctd> make hotplug loadfast kthnxbai
<fabbione> mjg59: are you coming down for the BOF?
<fabbione> did anybody see mjg59 around?
<mjg59> fabbione: Yo
<mjg59> fabbione: I'm in VibeOut - do you want me to come down there?
<mjg59> thom: You'll be pleased to hear that you're on LaptopHardwareSupport
<fabbione> mjg59: if you can come down it will be better..
<mjg59> fabbione: Ok, I'll come down now
<fabbione> mjg59: i am having problems to unplug my laptop atm
<fabbione> thanks
<fabbione> cc: did you process Xen and ClusterFileSystem?
<cc> fabbione: Xen i think i did (its already EditedSpecification); ClusterFileSystem no, i just had a whole stream of visitors, its on the todo list
<fabbione> cc: ok thanks
<tfheen> fabbione: I've pushed Xen fairly hard, iirc
<fabbione> tfheen: yes.. i just couldnt find on the wall of {sh,f}ame
<tfheen> it should be under EditedSpec there, iirc
<fabbione> yeps
<lunitik> https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=10208
<lunitik> pretty please fix?  :(((
<sladen> dilinger: pong
<tseng> lunitik: dont use breezy if you arent ready for broken shit
<lunitik> Its like a 10 second job + upload  :'(
<ctd> tseng: I came to breezy for things to break.
<tseng> we are a) very busy, b) have no bandwidth
<lunitik> tseng: I'm ready for broken packages... but I mean, such a simple mistake?
<tseng> its not a "mistake" on our part
<tseng> its from debian
<ctd> tseng: Things are so boring without updates every day.
<tseng> most of us arent even using breezy
<lunitik> tseng: indeed... but surely a main component that hasn't had its depends modified is an Ubuntu mistake?
<tseng> most of the changes are from MOM
<tseng> its not depends
<tseng> there is eds and eds1.2
<tseng> eds1.2 is wrong
<sladen> dilinger: I've added some more to the BootLogd page but it still needs testing what TIOCCONS is actually doing and what happens is the app dies (boom goes the logs?)
<tseng> it needs blacklisted
<dilinger> sladen: oh, i actually figured it out
<dilinger> sladen: the kernel has a variable 'redirect'
<dilinger> tioccons(file) simply takes the fd and sets redirect to it
<lunitik> tseng: no really... if you change the 0 to a 3 in the depends list, issue is fixed  :/
<dilinger> if fd is 0, reset redirect to 0
<dilinger> when writing to console, if redirect != 0, write to the fd/filp
<dilinger> so, just a simple redirect
<dilinger> so bootlogd opens the pty slave/master, resets any current redirects w/ TIOCCONS, sets the console to write to the slave pty w/ TIOCCONS
<mvirkkil> How can I tokenize text using a delimiter if the text is utf8? Ie. are there any 'safe' bytes that couldn't exits in a utf8 character?
<thom> mjg59: i'm on what?
<tfheen> mvirkkil: nullbytes, I think
<mjg59> thom: LaptopHardwareSupport
<thom> *sob*
<dilinger> it then selects against the pty master, reads any output and stores in a ring buffer.  spit everything out directly to /dev/tty1 (which is why it needs to find it; TIOCCONS intercepts console messages, writing to the tty directly skips console)
<dilinger> also tries to open /var/log/boot
<dilinger> if it can open it, empty ring buffer to file
<mvirkkil> tfheen: Yeah, but not going to work in this case. I'm currently using the \t character, but I suppose a utf8 character could contain that byte as one of its bytes?
<mvirkkil> tfheen: And are you should there  couldn't be one byte in a utf character of 4 bytes that is 0. 
<mvirkkil> I guess I need to read up on unicode.
<dilinger> sladen: so, if the app dies, it's up to the kernel to figure out that the pts is no longer valid, and to stop redirecting
<dilinger> sladen: if it doesn't do that, it's a kernel bug
<lunitik> tseng: bah... it is -3 ... sorry, I was wrong... just, rather annoying currently... I usually have no issue with bugs, went through menu and metacity bugs during hoary, but apt errors annoy me slightly more... I'll shut up though :(
<dilinger> sladen: so, given this information...
<sladen> dilinger: I think it might be a fire-and-forget command?
<dilinger> yea
<dilinger> if it's not, i'll submit a patch to fix the callback
<thom> mjg59: i take it thats part of laptopmission?
<dilinger> sladen: if it looks good, i'll pass it off to colin
<sladen> mvirkkil: 0xfe and 0xff are guaranteed not to exist in an UTF-8 stream
<mvirkkil> sladen: I'm thinking about the way the commands should be sent to the fifo. 
<sladen> mvirkkil: everything else is a legal character but if you want to search for a space then you just have to search for 0x20 since any character below 128 is the same as ASCII/ISO8859-1
<mvirkkil> sladen: So I could just use a tab character as a delim, since it will not exist in any utf character?
<GheRivero> res
<mvirkkil> sladen: What format are you using to communicate between the frontend and the "backend"
<sladen> mvirkkil: you'll only find it in a tab character---this is the becauty of UTF-8, all multi-byte characters will have the top-bit set
<mvirkkil> ?
<mvirkkil> sladen: Yes, I seem to remember something like that :-)
<mvirkkil> sladen: But only once you said it..
<mvirkkil> sladen: What kind of a protocl are you planning to use for communications through the socket/fifo?
<sladen> mvirkkil: if you need it, http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~mgk25/unicode.html#utf-8
<sladen> mvirkkil: communication for what?
<mvirkkil> sladen: Ie, how do you separate between commands, their args etc?
<mvirkkil> sladen: Like settign the progressbar to a certain value.
* sladen confused.  What's the context?
<mvirkkil> sladen: Or showing the text.
<mvirkkil> sladen: In the USPlash context.
<mvirkkil> sladen: Wasn't the idea that commands would be sent through the socket?
<fabbione> cc: http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/LiveCDPerformance is in your queue too :)
<cc> fabbione: yes, that i just noticed. joy joy, it just grows
<sladen> mvirkkil: the v1 stuff at http://www.paul.sladen.org/projects/usplash/download/ uses a text string with space separated arguments, but the interface is private between usquirt and usplashd
<daniels> sladen: we don't actually need another bof for usplash, do we?
* Treenaks liked sladen's bof last time :)
<daniels> mjg59: ping
<mjg59> Hi
<daniels> mjg59: vibe the fuck out
<mvirkkil> sladen: If you use space as a delim, how are you going to handle the case of free format text to be displayed. Basically if it was a rpc the following case: setpprogresstext(int time, char* text)
<mjg59> Yeah, be there in a minute
<daniels> word
<sladen> daniels: probably not.  I added shed load to the spec, can you have a quick oogle
<daniels> sure
<mvirkkil> sladen: Are you going to use a tempfs or a fifo?
<tseng> daniels: represent.
<daniels> tseng: good times
<tseng>  /topic 
<tseng> < daniels> mjg59: vibe the fuck out 
<sladen> mvirkkil: I have code to use a fifo on a tempfs
<sladen> mvirkkil: so probably eeasiest to stick with that
<mvirkkil> sladen: Why on tempfs?
<sladen> mvirkkil: can't write to a pipe on a read-only fs
<mvirkkil> sladen: Hmm.. Are you sure?
<Kamion> I don't know if he's sure, but he's right; try it
<Kamion> cjwatson@cairhien:~$ sudo mount -t tmpfs tmpfs /mnt
<Kamion> cjwatson@cairhien:~$ sudo mkfifo /mnt/foo
<Kamion> cjwatson@cairhien:~$ sudo mount -o remount,ro /mnt
<Kamion> cjwatson@cairhien:~$ echo hello > /mnt/foo
<Kamion> -bash: /mnt/foo: Permission denied
<mvirkkil> Kamion: krap.
<mvirkkil> I was sure I've used it on a flash readonly disk.
<mvirkkil> I stand corrected.
<mvirkkil> Kamion: Hey. you can.
<mvirkkil> Kamion: UIt's just that sudo echo crap > /ment/foo
<mvirkkil> is wrong
<dilinger> sladen: so i'm going to assume that's an 'it looks ok'
<mvirkkil> Kamion: The pipe goes past the sudo
<elmo> kamion: next time you see keybuk,  beat him
<mvirkkil> Kamion: If you do that as root , it will work
<mvirkkil> sladen: --^
<tfheen> Kamion: you're not here.
<sladen> Kamion/mvirkkil: interesting, I just tried the same test and managed to disprove myself that it /did/ work...  I'm confused
<mvirkkil> sladen: I'
<mvirkkil> sladen: I've used it before. And according to the documentation it should wiork.
<tfheen> Kamion: where "here" is sublime2
<sladen> $ touch hello ; echo hello > pipe  & cat pipe 
<sladen> touch: creating `hello': Read-only file system
<sladen> hello
<mvirkkil> sladen: There was a kernel bug in some 2.4 where it even modified the access times of the file, even though you didn't have permisions for it.
<sladen> mvirkkil: this is 2.4 I'm testing on since the wifi still doesn't work un Ubuntu
* sladen nudges mjg59
<mvirkkil> mvirkkil@hylje:~/blotch$ sudo mount -t tmpfs tmpfs /mnt
<mvirkkil> mvirkkil@hylje:~/blotch$ sudo mkfifo /mnt/foo
<mvirkkil> mvirkkil@hylje:~/blotch$ sudo mount -o remount,ro /mnt
<mvirkkil> mvirkkil@hylje:~/blotch$ sudo su -c 'echo hello > /mnt/foo'
<mvirkkil> Tand then when you cat /mnt/foo from another terminal, it will read the pipe, and the last command above will return.
<mvirkkil> sladen: It should work on 2.4
<mvirkkil> sladen: The kernel bug was about not checking for privs and has been fixed.
<mvirkkil> or not repecting them when it came to writing access times
<tfheen> anybody seen Kamion in the last twenty minutes?
<Lathiat> tfheen: behind you!
<mvirkkil> 11:23:11< Kamion> -bash: /mnt/foo: Permission denied
<tfheen> Lathiat: not really, given that I'm watching the only door to this room
<Lathiat> tfheen: maybe he has a cloak!
<mvirkkil> sladen: Did you get it to work?
<tfheen> blah, I'll just walk around randomly, then.
<tfheen> Kamion: if you're around, please find me.
<mjg59> It works for me
<mjg59> http://www.enlightenment.org/data/images/upload/efl.png - CRACK
<Lathiat> haha
<daniels> embryo, euphoria, entice, emotion
<daniels> the only thing he's missing is eugenia
<Micksa> placenta
* Micksa wonders if he knows what's going on
<daniels> Micksa: see mjg59's image
<sladen> mvirkkil: sadly.  This is unfortunately one more barrier to me actually having to write some more code
<Lathiat> Micksa: http://www.enlightenment.org/data/images/upload/efl.png
<Micksa> okay
<Micksa> so my dumb joke holds :)
<daniels> not really, since enlightenment didn't start with a p, last I checked
<Treenaks> Lathiat: Dependancy Hell!
<Micksa> neither does...
<Micksa> oh never mind
<mvirkkil> sladen: What are you referring to=?
<thom> CDBS INIT
<mvirkkil> sladen: How about just using tab as a delimiter?
<thom> THE FUTURE IS HERE
<Treenaks> thom: ?
<dilinger> make -f /usr/share/cdbs/3/cdbs-init.mk init3
<cc> no daf. how odd. 
<Zomb> jeez, what's next? init3 start2 aleve42 kicstart50 not-yet go?
<dilinger> Zomb: yea, thom and infinity didn't seem to like the idea much.  it's ok, though; i'll show 'em all..
<jordi> dilinger: 3?
<jordi> We were waiting for 2!
<dilinger> well yea, 3 adds support for init and booting :)
* Amaranth hugs cdbs
<Amaranth> Turns way too long rules files for Python projects into 5 lines if I use all the features. :)
<tseng> Amaranth: do you know how to do a rule for setup.py?
<tseng> Amaranth: i was trying to teach packaging today, dudes wanted to do python crack.
<mvirkkil> I have a very simple version of something resembling USplash using a fifo for commands and libogl for drawing. The code is > 200 lines.
<mvirkkil> Crap. I mean < 200
<tfheen> > 200 lines doesn't say much. :P
<tseng> 2 million, dude.
<tfheen> tseng: that's not too bad if they're all blank.
<Kamion> mvirkkil: mm, yeah, I was being thick
<mvirkkil> Kamion: No worries. I was just really surprised at first. 
<tfheen> anybody seen Scott around lately?
<Amaranth> tseng: A rule?
<Amaranth> tseng: Explain what you mean.
<tseng> yes
<tseng> debian/rules using cdbs
<tseng> but a simple python package with setup.py
<tseng> as an example for newbies
<Amaranth> Well, http://www.python.org/doc/current/dist/ is a good start. :)
<Amaranth> http://www.python.org/doc/current/dist/simple-example.html
* tseng shrugs
<Amaranth> I don't understand what you want.
<Amaranth> A real world example?
<tseng> debian/rules, dude
<Amaranth> Oh.
<tseng> nm
<Amaranth> http://dev.realistanew.com/rules
<Amaranth> err, that actually has a bug
* tseng reads python-distutils
<Amaranth> fixed
<tseng> hell yeah
<tseng> thats love, thanks
<Amaranth> Have you seen https://wiki.duckcorp.org/DebianPackagingTutorial/CDBS ?
<tseng> yes
<Amaranth> My rules is just a copy+paste from there plus the manpage line.
<tseng> ive been too busy today to look it up, as its for someone else
<Amaranth> ah
<Amaranth> If it gets me more crack in Ubuntu I'm happy to help. ;)
<SlackShrike> hi
<SlackShrike> i have a computer with a DVD+RW , CD-RW/DVD and 2 HD in RAID0 and the ubuntu-live don't boot. What i do ? Thanks!
<dholbach> hey mxpxpod 
<Lathiat> SlackShrike: Please take user questions to #ubuntu, this channel is for discussion about the the development of ubuntu.
<mxpxpod> hey dholbach 
<SlackShrike> OK
<SlackShrike> thanks
<SlackShrike> Lathiat: excuse.  the caps Lock was on.
<Lathiat> no problems
<SlackShrike> about the development of ubuntu: When i find the process build of ubuntu ?
<Treenaks> SlackShrike: process build?
<Treenaks> build daemon?
<Treenaks> build process?
<SlackShrike> build the ubuntu
<Treenaks> one package? the entire distribution?
<SlackShrike> how to make the ubuntu !
<Treenaks> CD images?
<SlackShrike> too
<Treenaks> maybe #ubuntu-br can help you better
<sivang> Hey Treenaks , 'sup ?
<Taliesin`> ho my gawd, my mirror is listed on the ubuntu mirror's page :P
<Burgundavia> trying to avoid that traffic thing?
<Taliesin`> nah
<Taliesin`> just didnt take people long to relise
<Taliesin`> and or add it to the list :)
<trulux> heya folks
<zul> hey trulux
<trulux> hey zul 
<trulux> zul: how was the SELinux BOF?
<zul> trulux: im not sure since im not at udu
<trulux> zul: Oh, I see, I'll ask pitti, mako or someone else :)
<zul> good idea :)
<trulux> mako: among the Amaya issue, how's going UDU? :D
<tseng> trulux: theres an amaya issue?
<trulux> tseng: I need to meet her for key signing
<Unfrgiven> tseng: hey
<tseng> hey.
<Unfrgiven> i needed some help with gpg keys... im having trouble sending the key to a keyserver.
<tseng> gpg --send-key ID
<Treenaks> Unfrgiven: gpg --send-key yourkeyid
<tseng> where id is the second part
<tseng> after 1024D/
<Unfrgiven> the id... is that my email address?
<tseng> its what i just said.
<Treenaks> email works too
<trulux> Unfrgiven: yes
<Unfrgiven> ah right. ill give that a shot.
<Unfrgiven> trulux: e-mail aint working :(
<trulux> Unfrgiven: then just use the key ID
<Unfrgiven> whats a good server to send it to?
* trulux thinks about loved debuild -klorenzo@gnu.org
<trulux> UbuntuGet: MIT?
<Unfrgiven> oh wait if i dont specify one, its going to "subkeys.pgp.net"
<trulux> UbuntuGet: the pgp.net one?
<trulux> Unfrgiven: no problemo :)
<Unfrgiven> trulux: thanks :)
<Unfrgiven> i need to get my gpg key signed. can you help me with this tseng?
<tseng> yes Unfrgiven, tommorow
<tseng> we need to do it in person.
<Unfrgiven> tseng: ok sure thing. since my laptop is still dead, what will you need to sign it? ill put it somewhere public.
<tseng> i need the output of
<tseng> gpg --fingerprint Your_ID
<Treenaks> Unfrgiven: you'll need to print (preferably) gpg --fingerprint
<tseng> and bring a govt photo id
<Unfrgiven> tseng: australian drivers license ok?
<tseng> Unfrgiven: yes.
<Taliesin`> lol
<Taliesin`> more aussie's
<Taliesin`> loving it :D
<Taliesin`> Is ubuntu mainly driven by aussie's or something, lol
<tseng> we are all sitting in australia atm
<Unfrgiven> tseng: great, thanks for that. ill definately see you tomorrow. for now ill fiddle with some packaging
<Taliesin`> :>
<tseng> so alot of locals are geting involved
<Taliesin`> <- Adelaide over here :)
<Unfrgiven> Taliesin`: its even better when you live right across the road from UDU :)
<Taliesin`> UDU ?
<Taliesin`> elaborate please :P
<dholbach> Ubuntu Down Under
<Unfrgiven> ubuntu down under
<Taliesin`> oh
<Unfrgiven> hey dholbach 
<dholbach> ;-)
<Taliesin`> is that something you guys are doing right now over in the eastern states?
<tseng> uber dholbach underoos
<Unfrgiven> looks like everyone is still up :)
<dholbach> underoos? :-)
<Taliesin`> 25th to 30th eh?
<Unfrgiven> indeed
<Taliesin`> bugger
<Taliesin`> wish i knew, would of taken holidays :D
<Unfrgiven> Taliesin`: you could come on friday night and attend on saturday if you wanted
<Taliesin`> nah, unfortunatly bills this week
<Taliesin`> leaving me broke :>
<tseng> its free!
<tseng> as in beer
<Taliesin`> maybe i could cover it under a company.. training...
<tseng> and as in mako in a skirt
<tseng> very very free.
<Taliesin`> lmao, no broke as plane ticket
<Taliesin`> to get their
<Taliesin`> besides, no one would let this PFY on a plane with his laptop :)
<tseng> pfy?
<Taliesin`> i gather you dont read BOFH :P
<Taliesin`> Pimply Faced Youth
<Unfrgiven> tseng: lol :)
<Taliesin`> their a policy at our company
<Taliesin`> all staff must read BOFH ;)
<tseng> thats productive.
<Taliesin`> For sure :D
<Taliesin`> helps us free space on our web servers :P
<Taliesin`> jk
<Unfrgiven> is it better to build a package with "debuild -S" or "dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot"?
<Unfrgiven> is there any difference?
<dholbach> good night!
<toresbe> How does the process of getting a package (already in Debian) into Ubuntu? (specifically, stopmotion, an, er, stopmotion animation thing :P
<toresbe> ) go?
<Lathiat> toresbe: see the MOTU teem
<sladen> win 88
<toresbe> Lathiat: okay, I see
<toresbe> sladen: 88?! you have issues.
<toresbe> I'm up to 40
<zul> anyone see this? http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/8253
<Lathiat> looks favourable
<AstralJava> Uhh.. nice writing.
<AstralJava> But then, I've always liked that magazine.
<zyga> hello
<zyga> is UDU over yet?
<AstralJava> There was just talk on #ubuntu-motu, that hinted towards not being over yet. Not sure, though.
<Lathiat> im pretty sure it runs til at least friday
<HiddenWolf> Can someone help me figure out why ubuntu initialises my headset before it does my audigy card, and what is wrong, so I can file a bug?
<Lathiat> HiddenWolf: what do you mean?
<Lathiat> you mean it plays out your headset instead of your audigy by default?
<HiddenWolf> Yes, exactly
<Lathiat> right, how is your headset connected?
<HiddenWolf> usb
<Lathiat> thought so
<Lathiat> theres probably already a bug about that, lemme look
<Lathiat> HiddenWolf: in some situations, its the preferred behavior
<Lathiat> like for example if i have alaptop and when im at hoe i plug in a usb sound card to my stereo
<Lathiat> i'd want that to play 
<Lathiat> so really it needs to be configurable
<HiddenWolf> When I first installed the system, I think jdub passed me a line that'd fix it. I've tried some things with the help of treenaks, but it'll still not listen
<HiddenWolf> Lathiat, I get it
<HiddenWolf> lathiat, do you happen to know of a way to force it to pick the audigy?
<Lathiat> yeh setup a asoundrc
<Lathiat> not sure on the details, google knows
<Lathiat> might be some easier way i dunno
<Lathiat> another way is if you bootup with the headset not plugged in, then plug it in
<Lathiat> it will work
<HiddenWolf> wicked, at this reboot, it picked the audigy as default
<Lathiat> 02:09 < Lathiat> yeh setup a asoundrc
<Lathiat> 02:09 < Lathiat> not sure on the details, google knows
<Lathiat> 02:09 < Lathiat> might be some easier way i dunno
<Lathiat> 02:09 < Lathiat> another way is if you bootup with the headset not plugged in,
<Lathiat>                  then plug it in
<Lathiat> 02:09 < Lathiat> it will work
<HiddenWolf> lathiat, sorry about that, I'm fighting with grub
<Lathiat> :)
<HiddenWolf> 've got a /dev/sda, and a /dev/hda, and want to add a boot option to /dev/hda for winxp, grub won't take it
<Lathiat> whats in /boot/grub/device.map ?
<HiddenWolf> (hd0)   /dev/sda
<HiddenWolf> I can add a hd1 there, then?
<Lathiat> umm
<Lathiat> re-run grub-install
<Lathiat> only way i now to regenerate it
<HiddenWolf> heh, manually adding it would've had the same result. :)
<Lathiat> HiddenWolf: well you can never be sure :)
<HiddenWolf> Looking at asoundrc now, looks difficult
<Lathiat> nah just gotta find the right example i think
<HiddenWolf> It's weird that it chooses a different default over reboots
<Lathiat> HiddenWolf: it switches?
<HiddenWolf> Now I've got nice 5.1 surround. when I was talking to you earlier, it came out of my headset
<Lathiat> maybe sometimes it pics up the usb device later or something
<Lathiat> if the usb device isnt plugged in when you boot itl goto the first 
<HiddenWolf> It was plugged in, :) 
<HiddenWolf> Thanks, brb
<astharot> ciao
<astharot> when will be the next Community Council?
* HiddenWolf grumbles at grub
<HiddenWolf> ran grub-install and update grub, now I get a 'filesystem unknown' error when trying to boot /dev/hda
<Lathiat> uh
<Lathiat> what doe syour grub section look like to boot windows
<HiddenWolf> ### END DEBIAN AUTOMAGIC KERNELS LIST
<HiddenWolf> ## Windows XP
<HiddenWolf> title		Windows XP Professional
<HiddenWolf> root		(hd1,0)
<HiddenWolf> makeactive
<HiddenWolf> chainloader	+1
* Lathiat shrugs
<Lathiat> try using tab copletion on boot
<Lathiat> go into command line mode
<Lathiat> go root (hd1,<tab>
<Lathiat> should tell you what partitions it can see of what type and stuff
<HiddenWolf> tab completion on boot
<HiddenWolf> ?
<HiddenWolf> press tab in the menu?
<HiddenWolf> nm
<HiddenWolf> didn't get enough sleep, thanks
<Lathiat> :)
<HiddenWolf> It should be /dev/hda1 tho, because I just managed to mount it as such
<HiddenWolf> Thanks, but I should get out of here before touchy dev spanks me for going OT
<HiddenWolf> :)
<tarzeau> how to get software into ubuntu ?
<Burgundavia> tarzeau, what kind of software?
<tarzeau> Burgundavia: free software, a game particularly www.linuks.mine.nu/debian/supertransball2/
<Burgundavia> I see you are talking in #ubuntu-motu
<Burgundavia> that is the correct place to do this sort of thing
<tarzeau> Burgundavia: ok i will talk over there then, thanks
<tarzeau> this stuff here is for what's shipped on cd and universe is only available by internet, is that right?
<Burgundavia> this is for ubuntu devel in general
<Burgundavia> mostly on main
<Burgundavia> motu is for universe and multiverse
<HiddenWolf> Grub is bugging me to madness :S
<Simira> good morning Sydney!
<Simira> has my favourite Sydney-attendee gotten online yet?
<HiddenWolf> Is anyone here good with grub, I'm totally out classed
<uniq> depends on your problem...
<HiddenWolf> I had a single disk system, with ubuntu on it. that was fine
<HiddenWolf> /dev/sda (hd0,0)
<HiddenWolf> Now I added an old harddisk for the occational windows boot
<HiddenWolf> /dev/hda
<HiddenWolf> Logic demands it's (hd1,0)
<HiddenWolf> Booting to it gives me "unknown filesystem"
<HiddenWolf> booting to windows on hd0,0 gives me "unsupported something" error
<HiddenWolf> I ran grub-reinstall, and my device map now reads hd0 -> hda, hd1 -> sda
<HiddenWolf> Still booting happily to my sda disk using hd0,0 tho
<HiddenWolf> update-grub doesn't do a thing.
<HiddenWolf> grub> root (hd0,0)
<HiddenWolf>  Filesystem type unknown, partition type 0x7
<HiddenWolf> grub> root (hd1,0)
<HiddenWolf>  Filesystem type is ext2fs, partition type 0x83
<HiddenWolf> grub>
<blueyed> # and how to activate them. For more information, see interfaces(5).
<blueyed> # The loopback network interface
<blueyed> auto lo
<blueyed> iface lo inet loopback
<blueyed> # This is a list of hotpluggable network interfaces.
<blueyed> # They will be activated automatically by the hotplug subsystem.
<blueyed> mapping hotplug
<blueyed>         script grep
<blueyed>         map eth0
<blueyed> auto dsl-provider
<blueyed> iface dsl-provider inet ppp
<blueyed>      provider dsl-provider
<blueyed> sry
<Baby> (
<HiddenWolf> anyone here proficient on the topic of grub?
<Simira> hmm
<Simira> time to get up now, isn't it?
<Simira> metallikop: you're down under, right? Is Tollef up yet?
<tseng> Simira: no to both
<tseng> at least he hasnt been downstairs yet
<Simira> hm... he went to bed early. I hope he's not gotten worse
#ubuntu-devel 2006-05-01
<pitti> jmg: old Debian tradition, the 'dak' suite for archive administration consists of some dozens of girls :)
<slomo__> sivang: until.... now ;) please write me a mail or ping me tomorrow
<sfllaw> Debian likes naming stuff after shiny things.
<sivang> jmg: they're all elmo's girl freinds ;-)
<sivang> slomo__: okay, sure, good night :)
<zul> heylo
<mdke> can you guys encrypt emails in evolution? It breaks for me and gpg seems to work ok
<ogra> mdke, do you have any zombie processes of gpg around ? 
<ogra> sometimes gpg dies below evo 
<mdke> ah, now it's working
<mdke> how odd
<ogra> (and leaves a lock file in ~/.gnupg)
<jmg> hmm
<jmg> what is required to be able to modify specs on launchpad?
<jmg> Sorry, you don't have permission to access this page.
<jmg> need to be an Ubuntu Member?
<mdke> jmg, you edit the underlying wiki page
<jmg> mdke: FooDraft?
<jmg> mdke: it's not attached to a wiki page yet
<jmg> mdke: I wanted to attach it
<mdke> url?
<mdke> oh I see what you mean
<jmg> mdke: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/XenEnabledKernelDraft
<mdke> I guess you have to be the spec registrant, but asking in #launchpad may tell you more
<jmg> okay
<mdke> what is the spec address?
<pygi> night people
<mdke> oh, i see it, sorry
<jmg> mdke: is it a good spec?
<mdke> jmg, I wouldn't know, I'm afraid
<Seveas> are dependencies on "Priority: required" packages needed?
<sivang> night all
<mdke> Riddell, around?
<Riddell> mdke: hi
<mdke> Riddell, hiya. About those 3 things I mailed you: I was thinking I will have some time to look at them this weekend
<mdke> Riddell, did you have any thoughts on where to put translations on the filesystem?
<Riddell> mdke: I've not had time to look at it.  anywhere that the help ioslave can find them is good
<mdke> Riddell, I'll do some tests
<mdke> good night
<alexr> Mithrandir: Hi there, I have a question for you regarding dapper live cd
<alexr> Or maybe anybody else knows:
<alexr> is the squashfs filesystem packaged with version2 of the driver going to be understood by the kernel?
<alexr> In other words, the dapper kernel: what squashfs driver does it have?
<crimsun> /boot/config-2.6.15-21-686:3201:CONFIG_SQUASHFS_2_0_COMPATIBILITY=y
<alexr> crimsun: thanks!
<alexr> crimsun: do I get it correctly that in dapper there's no need for install CD?
<alexr> Except specialized server and OEM installs.
<crimsun> depends whether you want a gui installer or the traditional curses-based one
<alexr> Let me ask it this way then: for a computer-illiterate user, is Live CD enough to fully install the system?
<alexr> Is there any added value in the Install CD?
<crimsun> the live cd would be preferable for such a user.
<alexr> Does install CD contain more packages than what can be installed from live?
<crimsun> I don't know the packages seeded off the top of my head.
<crimsun> You will want to use the live cd for that class of Ubuntu users, however.
<alexr> Thanks.
<alexr> But, seeded or not, the install cd does contain more packages than what's on the live, doesn't it?
<crimsun> well, not knowing what's seeded for both makes it difficult to answer that. Someone else knows (but is likely asleep).
<alexr> :-)
<bddebian> Heya folks
<jmg> hi bddebian 
<welshbyte> howdy
<bddebian> Hello jmg, welshbyte
<jmg> hmm, network-manager is trying to be smart but sucking.
<FunnyLookinHat> jmg, what do you mean?
<jmg> invoke-rc.d networking start will bring up the interfaces successfuly, but network-manager then deconfigures my bridge and runs dhcp on my other nic
<jmg> FunnyLookinHat: i think it just cant handle bridges
<jmg> FunnyLookinHat: upshot is, whenever i boot into ubuntu, i have to dhclient
<FunnyLookinHat> that's very weird.  What do you mean by bridges though?  network bridges?
<jmg> FunnyLookinHat: yeah
<FunnyLookinHat> very strange.
<FunnyLookinHat> report it as bug yet?
<jmg> no, im not sure whether its my fault or what.
<jmg> mii-tool eth1 reports a link when there is none
<jmg> that might be what confuses netman
<FunnyLookinHat> yea, that IS a problem   lol
<jmg> my eth1 is a 4 port switch
<jmg> with an 8139 chip
<FunnyLookinHat> yea i have no idea how to configure one of those
<bddebian> Ack, I may have screwed up.  Should merges be subscribed to ubuntu-archive?
<infinity> bddebian: If you mean syncs, yes.
<infinity> bddebian: We don't do manual merges for you. :)
<bddebian> infinity: Why the hell not? ;-P
<bddebian> Well, I screwed up as usual then :-(
<jmg> :-9
<jmg> :-(
<r3dick> Hello I was told on ubuntu-forums that I might find the info or the location of the info I need to figure out why after an update I cannot boot into 686 any more.  If this is so what is the correct protocol to ask for help please?
<r3dick> I guess i was wrongly informed please forgive me. 
<crimsun> only 2.6.15-21.32-686 ?
<crimsun> as in 2.6.15-21.32-386 works fine? If so, please migrate to #ubuntu.
<bddebian> meany :-)
<zakame> hi all
<pitti> Good morning
<janimo> pitti, morning
<pitti> hi janimo 
<jdub> pitti: whoa, biggest cups changelog entry EVAR!
<pitti> jdub: :)
<pitti> hey carlos
<carlos> pitti: hi
<carlos> pitti: so, could we start doing weekly language packs for dapper?
<pitti> carlos: I think so
<carlos> pitti: today we will get another bunch of .pot files
<pitti> carlos: I need to fix up a few small things for today's langpacks, but otherwise it should be fairly automatic now
<carlos> ok
<carlos> I'm going to plan the move of the script run into production
<carlos> that way we don't depend on a mirror
<carlos> pitti: that means the URL to fetch it will change
<carlos> pitti: still need to check how to do it so we have always the same URL
<pitti> carlos: no problem, just tell me early enough ;)
<carlos> sure
<carlos> pitti: about breezy and hoary...
<carlos> pitti: I think we should do automatic updates too
<carlos> I know we are still missing lots of .po files for those from Rosetta...
<carlos> but we are going to handle only updates, right?
<pitti> carlos: right
<pitti> carlos: we already did it for breezy, that should be fine
<pitti> similarly for hoary
<carlos> ok
<carlos> let's do the automatic updates for dapper
<pitti> carlos: so if rosetta only gives us files with strings that were actually changed, it's all fine
<jmg> its quite hardcore to get to look at this kind of cooperation :)
<pitti> and it doesn't matter that they are incomplete
<carlos> pitti: we do it already, I just need to start storing the date when latest language pack was exported
<carlos> pitti: and that means that you should not miss any language pack export as I will do exports from previous one (for dapper will not be true until we have the final release)
<carlos> jmg: wonderful, isn't it? ;-)
<jmg> very :)
<pitti> doko: today's dist-upgrade pulled in oo.o-gtk, but it's installation fails due to file conflicts to ooo-gnome; known?
<joelbryan> hello, will the ideas posted in the SoC page will be the final project that people are going to work on?
<robitaille> pitti:  is it bug 41251 ?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 41251 in openoffice.org-amd64 "openoffice.org-gtk has a file conflict with openoffice.org-gnome" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/41251
<pitti> robitaille: indeed, thanks
<mvo> doko: do you mind if I upload a new capiutils? 
<janimo> Kamion, do you know why gnome-session ends up on the xubuntu livecd? gdm depends on it but alternately deps on xterm | x-window-manager too
<janimo> at least xterm should be satistfied since it's in xubuntu-desktop. I saw no other place where gnome-session could be depended upon
<Mithrandir> janimo: check with germinate?
<janimo> Mithrandir: does germinate use another dependency algo than apt?
<Mithrandir> janimo: I don'
<janimo> do I need to look in the germinate package ?
<Mithrandir> t remember
<janimo> maybe when it comes to alternate depends it just picks differently..
<Kamion> slomo: wavpack demoted, thanks
<doko> pitti: amd64?
<Kamion> Seveas: yes, you still have to depend on stuff if it's only Priority: required; you don't have to depend on it if it's also Essential: yes. procps is a classic example where it makes a difference.
<doko> mvo: no
<Seveas> Kamion, ok thanks - then I can file heaps of bugs about missing lsb-base dependencies 
<Kamion> Seveas: yes, not depending on lsb-base is a bug, although you might find some packages have code to fall back to something else if lsb-base isn't there
<Kamion> janimo: germinate's dependency algorithm is different, yes
<Kamion> janimo: and alternate dependencies are one place where it sometimes falls down
<nomed> janimo: in case you figure that out could you tell me, i' wanted to play  with that me too later .. but just in case it'll be needed
<Kamion> janimo: I'm just pulling the xubuntu seeds now to have a look
<janimo> Kamion, looks like ubuntu-artwork is pulled in too. It is the other package in gdm deps which has alternative depends there
<Kamion> hmm, oh, it's not germinate that's at fault here, it's apt :P
<Kamion> the live CDs are built by the buildds installing the metapackages
<Kamion> which is worth remembering, since it means that you need to upload metapackages before seed changes have any effect on the live CD build process
<janimo> Kamion: so I need to ./update in meta and upload xubuntu-desktop + live
<janimo> although I only modified the ship seed lately
<Kamion> it was a general comment, I hadn't looked at your metapackages
<janimo> ok
<sivang> re
<Kamion> xubuntu-desktop looks OK; I claim an apt bug
<Kamion> unless there's something more subtle pulling in gnome-session
<janimo> ubuntu-artwork is pulled in too, and has fewer rdepends
<Kamion> you could try debootstrapping a base chroot, apt-get install ubuntu-standard, and then 'apt-get -o Debug::pkgProblemResolver=true -s install ubuntu-artwork'
<Kamion> you will get metric shedloads of output, but in there somewhere should be what apt was thinking
<mvo> janimo: please put the output of the problem resolver on a pastebin
<janimo> Kamion, mvo ok will do
<janimo> debootstrapping takes some more time
<janimo> but I wonder if it's an apt problem why does it manifest only on the liveCD? as desktop install is ok, gnome-session is not pulled in
<Kamion> because the install CD installs the task (as synthesised in the CD Packages file by cdimage) not the metapackage
<Kamion> different installation method
<pitti> doko_: yes, it's already filed as bug 41251
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 41251 in openoffice.org-amd64 "openoffice.org-gtk has a file conflict with openoffice.org-gnome" [Normal,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/41251
<sivang> mvo: did you have a chance to take a look at malone #40807 ?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 40807 in gnome-session "Logout window dances around when hovering over Sleep and Hibernate buttons" [Normal,Rejected]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/40807
<sivang> oops
<sivang> wrong bug number
<sivang> mvo: malone #40802
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 40802 in gnome-system-tools "in users-admin user privileges there are 3 modem entries" [Normal,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/40802
<mvo> sivang: no, not yet and probably not this week, too much other stuff
<dholbach> hey mvo
<janimo> Kamion, mvo : output of apt-get -o Debug::pkgProblemResolver=true -s install ubuntu-artwork in debootstrap http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/12916
<sivang> mvo: okay, can I just then ask you about 24_modem_group_string.patch which changed description of audio group from "Use sounde devices" to "Use serial devices such as Modems and Palm Pilots." , was that intentional? AFAICT this looks like a description bug.
<janimo> although wouldn't gdm or xubuntu-desktop be more useful?
<mvo> sivang: yeah, probably. if you prepare a fix I'm happy to review/upload
<sivang> mvo: cool, then off I go :-) thanks and sorry for taking your time.
<mvo> janimo: its not the problemResolvers problem it seem ... it dosn't find any problems to resolve ;)
<mvo> sivang: thank you for fixing it 
<janimo> mvo, ubuntu-artwork has no alternative deps
<janimo> is there where problems appear?
<mvo> janimo: I missed the earlier discussion so I'm not 100% up-to-date. but if apt is suspected for doing the wrong thing, then this is less likely because the problemResolver (who is usually responsible for doing-stuff-wrong) is not run 
<janimo> mvo, it was about why gnome-session and ubuntu-artwork end up in the xubuntu livecd
<janimo> when they are dependencies of gdm but have alternatives
<janimo> like xterm and xubuntu-default-settings respectively
<janimo> it may not be the gdm dep though
<nomed> janimo: i guess you should change xubuntu-live seeds ?
<mvo> janimo: so you install xubuntu-desktop in a clean chroot and it pulls in gnome-session and ubuntu-artwork?
<nomed> it should deps on ubuiquity instead of espresso (?)
<janimo> mvo, no xubuntu-desktop installs fine
<janimo> it;s just when on the liveCD some other packages show up
<janimo> mvo, actually wait it seems it does in clean chroot
<janimo> so it may be it's not just the live but a recent change somewhere else
<Kamion> nomed: merging from the Ubuntu seeds should be sufficient to make that change
<Kamion> janimo: yes, as I said above it won't be just the live seed
<janimo> nomed, it's already ubiquity in the seeds
<janimo> but I need to do a meta upload I guess
<Kamion> mvo: the buildds that build the live CD filesystems do so by apt-get -y install xubuntu-desktop
<Kamion> mvo: the install CD uses aptitude -y install ~txubuntu-desktop
<nomed> janimo: yes
<Kamion> (or words to that effect)
<Kamion> mvo: hence why janimo thinks it's live-CD-only, even though it really isn't
<nomed> here apt-get update and apt-cache show xubuntu-live ... espresso is still there
<mvo> Kamion: aptitude with --without-recommends I guess?
<Kamion> mvo: yeah
<janimo> nomed, on the livecd?
<mvo> it may be a difference in the problemresolver then, aptitude nowdays (0.4.x) uses its own implementation
<nomed> janimo: that would fix even the missing install icon
<nomed> janimo: no 
<Kamion> mvo: the difference is that apt-get is given the metapackage while aptitude is given the task
<janimo> Kamion, so does any of these install recommends besides depends?
<Kamion> mvo: either way, apt-get is apparently selecting the first one of gdm's alternate dependency on gnome-session | ... | xterm, even though xterm is also a dependency of xubuntu-desktop and so was going to be pulled in anyway; so it looks like it's going depth-first rather than breadth-first, or something
<mvo> right (/me should look before typeing)
<Kamion> janimo: no
<Kamion> probably kind of hard to fix though; if it's not a critical problem for the xubuntu live CD it might be better to defer to edgy
<Kamion> janimo: I'm just about to remove espresso from the archive, so I'd suggest uploading -meta, yes :)
<janimo> Kamion sure, the probem is if everything on the live system gets copied over the disk
<janimo> but I guess it can be worked around by puttin xterm as the first dep in gdm?
<Kamion> yeah, but that would probably adversely affect Ubuntu
<janimo> gnome-session is depended upon by other packages, like ubutu-desktop
<janimo> so it will be in anyway
<janimo> gdm depends on may packages which are already in default ubuntu-desktop
<Kamion> I suspect the gdm maintainer will rightly feel that that dependency change would be wrong
<Kamion> gnome-session *is* the preferred dependency
<Kamion> dependencies should really be saying what we mean them to say, rather than being workarounds for problems in packaging tools, where possible ...
<janimo> understood
<janimo> although gdm does not really depend on any session, it can start whatever it's given.t hose would better be recommends imho
<nomed> janimo: btw: distrowatch last 7 days ... pretty amazing
<janimo> yeah, but I guess it will fade. it's the newness mostly
<nomed> janimo: "apt-get install xterm xubuntu-live xubuntu-desktop" seems to solve that issue
<nomed> while apt-get install xubuntu-live xubuntu-desktop installs gnome-session and more
<dholbach> Kinnison: I just had a look at the g-p-m NEWS file - doesn't seem like icon theme stuff was added. Would you mind much, if I'd take the current source, add a patch to it (only add new files) and add some bits to debian/{rules,control} to uudecode icons? I'm happy to wait for your upload to add my stuff to it, if you prefer that.
<Kamion> Riddell: is the kexi source package now superseded by koffice?
<Kamion> nomed: that could go into the live CD build script as a workaround. Talk to infinity about that.
<Kamion> infinity: ^--
<Riddell> Kamion: yes it is
<Kamion> Riddell: binaries kexi-mysql-driver, kexi-postgresql-driver, and libkexi-dev to be removed? (confirming)
<Mithrandir> fabbione: I'm going to upload a new xorg in a little bit, ok?
<fabbione> Mithrandir: yes of course.
<Riddell> Kamion: -drivers are, let me check on -dev
<Kamion> Riddell: nothing depends/build-depends on it
<Riddell> Kamion: there's a kexi-mdb in revu which I think does for MS access databases
<Kamion> Riddell: mm, yeah, maybe koffice needs to start shipping that -dev then
<Riddell> Kamion: yes, I think it does
<Riddell> Kamion: keep it in for now, I'll get a proper answer toot sweet
<Kamion> ta
<Kamion> interesting how anastacia gets confused by that; it wants to promote the kexi source package
<Kamion> Riddell: you want kplato in main? since it was new I shoved it in universe
<Kamion> (but koffice depends on it)
<Riddell> Kamion: is kplato being brought into main
<Kamion> that's what I'm asking :)
<Riddell> it should be in universe, it's still in "technology preview" stage
<Kamion> oh, then please make koffice stop depending on it
<Kamion> or else unseed koffice and seed individual packages, but that seems more drastic
<Riddell> ok
<infinity> Kamion: Yeah, I can change "xubuntu-desktop" to "xterm xubuntu-desktop", if that'll fix things for now.
<Kamion> Riddell: also, does kexi want to be in main once we sort out this libkexi-dev issue?
<Kamion> infinity: sounds like it
<Riddell> Kamion: what's the plan for beta 2?  is it definately going ahead?
<Riddell> Kamion: yes, kexi is a proper release now so it can be promoted
<Kamion> infinity: possibly other changes required to get rid of ubuntu-artwork too, not sure; that sounds less urgent though
<Kamion> Riddell: I need to sort out an issue with apt-setup that mdz reminded me of last night, but aside from that I'm planning to do the prep today
<Kamion> we might as well do Flight CD 7 alongside, for the install CD; Beta 2 is only needed for the live CD
<Kamion> so if you don't have time for a full QA pass on the install CDs, that's not so bad
<Riddell> Kamion: libkexi-dev can go, the files are in koffice-dev now
<janimo> nomed, good catch
<janimo> gnome session install >50Mb worth  of deps so it's worth not having on the live and the installed system
<Kamion> Riddell: ah, great. koffice-dev should Replaces: libkexi-dev then
<janimo> and the actualbug that was reportyed against it is that while installed, it has not the whole gnome in so choising it in gdm dialog leads to misbehaviour
<Riddell> yep, i'll do that now
<Kamion> I'll remove in the next publisher-not-running window
<infinity> Kamion: Okay, new livecd.sh rolled out with that hack in place.
<ogra> so who made my CDs explode 
<janimo> infinity: thanks, does that mean it affects todays live?
<janimo> oh, today's live is out already so I guess not
<ogra> grmbl, where do these 8M come from
<infinity> janimo: Next daily, unless it's urgent that you test it.
<janimo> infinity: not urgent, unless a beta2 is supposed to be happening for the derivatives too
<nomed> janimo: it would be nice if within that iso there was the new xubuntu-meta ;)
<janimo> and even in that case I'd like to wait for xubuntu-meta to build
<janimo> nomed, yep :) I guess that's the reaosn for the missing install icon?
<nomed> yes
<nomed> it is
<janimo> ok
<nomed> we could even close bug 41344 ..
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 41344 in xubuntu-meta "icons missing on desktop in live cd" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/41344
<janimo> sure
<nomed> janimo: i need you add an entry on your TODO list :)
<janimo> what entry? :)
<nomed> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DapperXubuntuIcons?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=xfce-setting-show.png <--
<nomed> the icons are done ..
<nomed> now we need to have that panel themeable
<janimo> is that not more an xfce upstream task?
<nomed> janimo: it would be nice to just figure out what wrong 
<nomed> then we can ping upstreamer
<janimo> ok, it's on the TODO, just not on the top :)
<nomed> it's really strange that if i remove all the icons ... that panel can still show them
<janimo> i'll reboot now to see if the new usplash fixes the red color
<nomed> janimo: consider that it could affect even tango upstreamer
<janimo> ok
<pitti> crimsun: do you know any bug that describes the failure of handling '!defaults.pcm.card foo'? Any idea how I can reproduce it here? I want to make sure that snd_pcm_open() really fails in an appropriate way in this case (and not some other function)
<pitti> crimsun: (and I need the error code as well, since opening the sound card could fail for other reasons, like being busy)
<ogra> Kamion, did ubiquity grow significantly in size over espresso ? 
<ogra> the only things i see added are ubiquity, ttf-lao and xcursor-themes ... nothing justifies 8MB growth
<Kamion> ogra: no
<ogra> hmm
<Kamion> nomed: janimo's gone, so you'll do :), yes, I do expect we'll want to do another beta of the Xubuntu live CD
<nomed> perfect
<nomed> btw: i wanted to test how smart bheaves on that situation :(
<nomed> but espresso seems gone ...
<ogra> nomed, yes, it was dropped some days ago 
<sivang> mvo: http://muse.19inch.net/~sivan/s-t-b/ , includes both a debdiff and a changed source.
<sivang> mvo: (fix for malone #40802)
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 40802 in gnome-system-tools "in users-admin user privileges there are 3 modem entries" [Normal,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/40802
<nomed> ogra: i guess just some minutes ago :)
<ogra> nomed, on the weekend i think
<Kamion> nomed: sorry, what situation?
<mvo> sivang: thanks
<Kamion> ogra: no, I removed it from the archive in the last cycle
<ogra> ah, k
<nomed> Kamion: the gnome-session issue
<Kamion> nomed: ah, so espresso was a random tangent
<ogra> i thought the first ubiquity just superceded espresso
<Kamion> ogra: yes, but package removal is never automatic
<ogra> s/just/upload just/
<nomed> Kamion: xubuntu-meta has still espresso
<ogra> ah
<ogra> yep
<Kamion> nomed: ok, janimo still needs to upload that
<ogra> nope
<ogra> its uploaded
<nomed> i'll wait :)
<ogra> (i see it on -changes)
<Kamion> well, it still needs to build then
<ogra> yep
<ogra> as edubuntu-meta
<Kamion> edubuntu-meta is built
<Kamion> oh, not your most recent upload, ok
<ogra> :)
<ogra> it didnt have the espresso change
<mjg59> Diziet: With latest updates, I'm still seeing bad fonts in epiphany. Is that expected?
<Kamion> Mithrandir: can you send me ubiquity changes needed to correspond to your xorg keyboard changes?
<Mithrandir> Kamion: remind me what package that would be in?
<Mithrandir> oh, true
<Mithrandir> I found it
<Kamion> yeah, core ubiquity now
<Harti> hello
<Mithrandir> Kamion: hmm, you don't ship .bzr in the source any more?
<Kamion> Mithrandir: never did
<Kamion> Mithrandir: I don't like shipping revision control detritus in source trees; I've never found it particularly helpful
<Harti> the new flashplugin-nonfree 7.0.63.1-ubuntu2 is broken!
<Kamion> and it encourages people to forget to merge from my trunk :)
<Mithrandir> Kamion: I find it useful with bzr and other distributed RCS-es, but YMMV.  You'll get a patch in a little bit, then.
<Kamion> ta
<ogra> Harti, wait for 7.0.63.3ubuntu1 and please use LP for bugs
<Kamion> Harti: I imagine that would be https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/flashplugin-nonfree/+bug/41442; feel free to subscribe
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 41442 in flashplugin-nonfree "flash doesn't install now" [Normal,Confirmed]  
<Harti> ok
* Mithrandir twiddles thumbs as bzr takes a stroll around the park.
<Diziet> mjh59: No, it's not expected.  Can you provide a testcase ?
<Kamion> mdz: ok, I just checked and /etc/apt/sources.list does now appear to contain lines for network sources even if you're not connected during installation, whether on the install or on the live CD
<Kamion> mdz: I thought I observed otherwise earlier, but I guess I was wrong
<Diziet> mjg59: No, it's not expected.  Can you provide a testcase ?
<Diziet> Damn, why do I keep doing that ?  (mjg->mjh)
<Kamion> Mithrandir: do you care if your xorg keyboard change doesn't get into the beta? if the answer's "no", then I don't have to rebuild Ubuntu and Kubuntu livefses ...
<Mithrandir> Kamion: no, I don't.  It only touches initial installations anyway.
<Kamion> I'll just rebuild Edubuntu and Xubuntu then
<ogra> i'm not yet sure edubuntu is good
<ogra> i have no idea where these 8 megs come from, i need to compensate that first 
<Mithrandir> Kamion: So we're doing a beta 2 this week?
<Kamion> ogra: you talking about install or live CDs?
<Kamion> Mithrandir: yeah, was planning on rolling the images today so we can test with at least some leisure
<ogra> Kamion, install is oversized in any case, i'm not sure about live 
<Mithrandir> Kamion: not redoing install, I presume?
<Kamion> ogra: live looks OK
<Kamion> Mithrandir: yes, but calling that Flight CD 7, not beta; and perhaps we might want to do that next week
<ogra> hmm, i386 at 697M ...
<Mithrandir> Kamion: ok.
<Kamion> so yeah, might be best to just ignore it for today
<Kamion> given that I don't want to spend too much time on this
<mjg59> Diziet: news.bbc.co.uk renders in a font that has ugly colour fringing
<mjg59> I can provide a screenshot?
<Treenaks> color fringing? sounds like a wrong subpixel setting/
<mjg59> Treenaks: No, it's choosing a poorly-hinted (or without hinting) font
<ivoks> ?
<mjg59> Which wasn't previously the default behaviour
<Diziet> mjg59: screenshot> Yes, please.  (I must reinstall my testbed.)
<Diziet> When did this start happening ?
<mjg59> It's been that way since the initial font behaviour change
<mjg59> I can't tell if it's precisely the same font or not
<mjg59> Diziet: http://www.codon.org.uk/~mjg59/fringes.png
<ivoks> 404
<Kamion> hmm, I have to rebuild ubuntu/kubuntu amd64/powerpc anyway since they don't have the latest ubiquity; oh well
<mjg59> Argh
<mjg59> diziet: http://www.srcf.ucam.org/~mjg59/fringes.png
<ogra> thats nimbus again
<mjg59> Yes
<ogra> nimbus sans to be precise
<Mithrandir> Kamion: http://err.no/bzr/ubiquity for the keyboard fix
<mjg59> I'm not good at identifying fonts
<ogra> i roughly know th eones we always have probs with :)
<mjg59> I don't believe I've ever touched my font settings
<mjg59> But if I did, I haven't touched them since well before the fontconfig fiddling
<Diziet> Why are there no .jigdo's for the livecds ?
<ogra> you have switched your ff to use sans 
<ogra> at least
<mjg59> ogra: No
<Kamion> Diziet: there's no way to do them usefully
<mjg59> I haven't touched my firefox config
<Diziet> Oh, is it all compressed ?
<Kamion> Diziet: the main content of the live CD is a giant squashfs image
<mjg59> (since I don't use it)
<ogra> mjg59, oh, wow, that happens with default ff settings ?
<mjg59> ogra: That's epiphany
<Kamion> so the corresponding .template would be nearly as big as the image itself
<ivoks> it looks ok in epiphany here
<ogra> blind me, indeed
<Kamion> they do rsync fairly well, though
<Diziet> Yes, epiphany does seem to be using Nimbus.
<ogra> the current i386 edubuntu live is fine ... so if we have no regressions, it will stay that way :)
<ogra> meh, i have still to run dhclient manually to get wireless ?
<ogra> Keybuk, wasnt that fixed ?
<Keybuk> ogra: no, is casper bug
<ogra> ah
<ogra> i thought i saw an related upload
<Keybuk> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/dapper/+source/casper/+changelog
<Keybuk> recent upload doesn't mention anything
<_ion> Btw, does linux-image-server contain grsec?
<Keybuk> the bug is that casper only writes an /e/n/i entry for those cards there are drivers for the initramfs
<Keybuk> because most wireless cards need firmware or are in lrm, they're obviously missed out
<Keybuk> I suggested we just always write a couple of spare /e/n/i entries <g>
<ivoks> _ion: nope :(
<_ion> ivoks: :-(
<ogra> mine is a lame pcmcia card ... i guess thats the prob
<Keybuk> oh, I doubt that's handled either <g>
<ogra> yep
<_ion> It shouldn't break anything if it were off by default. But the admin could enable it without having to compile her own kernel.
<ogra> in fact i have not one card here where it works
<Riddell> Kamion: are the text install images still to be rebuilt too?
<Kamion> well pcmciautils ain't in the initramfs, so it won't
<Kamion> Riddell: not today
<Riddell> Kamion: so 20060426 is candidate for beta 2?  or not yet
<Diziet> Well, the problem is that epiphany is not setting the anymetrics=1 property (and indirectly that fontconfig is misdesigned and pango uses it in buggy ways).
<ogra> Kamion, is it planned to get it into initramfs ? 
<Riddell> s/beta 2/flight 7/
<Kamion> Riddell: I'll not be releasing the install CD with Beta 2 - just reusing the existing one
<ivoks> _ion: i think grsec was never considerd for inclusion
<Diziet> Just to confirm, no-one is seeing this wrong fonts problem with ff rather than epi ?
<Riddell> Kamion: right
<Kamion> Riddell: I think we'll just do Flight 7 next week rather than trying to do them both at once
<ogra> i imagine there are more pcmcia devices out there than wireless cards
<Kamion> Riddell: no images are candidate yet
<_ion> ivoks: That's a shame.
<Kamion> ogra: I haven't thought about it - probably best avoided for dapper
<ogra> uuh
<Kamion> it would be useful for PCMCIA hard drives
<ogra> yep, or CDs
<Kamion> for the live CD case, yes
<Diziet> rsync on the .iso> just in time, no doubt, for me to rsync the beta 2 over the top of my beta download ...
<Kamion> Diziet: usually only takes about an hour for me to rsync a live ISO over that sort of time interval
<Keybuk> ogra: ok, fixed casper
<Kamion> Diziet: beta (1) is fine if you're not planning on installing it, though
<Kamion> vivies.buildd [10.211.37.18]  22 (ssh) : No route to host
<Kamion> no biscuits for vivies
<ogra> Keybuk, yay, thanks :)))
<Diziet> I was planning on installing it on my testbed.  It's either that or some early beta and upgrade.  My last dapper install on the testbed machine has rotted.
<Kamion> Diziet: ah, well today's daily-live should be OK then; we won't actually be releasing beta-2 until tomorrow, I expect
<Diziet> OK, ta.
<Kamion> (assuming your testbed is i386)
<Diziet> Yes.
<Kamion> Right. The other arches are a little out of date installer-wise.
<Diziet> But first I have to go on my quarterly orange juice errand :-).
<Kamion> +        if k == "slovene":
<Kamion> +            xmap = "si"
<Kamion>              variant = "de"
<Kamion> Mithrandir: really?
<Kamion> si/de?
<Mithrandir> no
<Mithrandir> that's wrong
<Mithrandir> on phone, I'll fix
<Kamion> ta
<Mithrandir> Kamion: fixed, pushed
<pitti> mjg59: as a workaround fix for this at_console dbus bug, could libpam-console provide a world-executable suid program that just returns whether the caller is on the currently active console?
<pitti> mjg59: erm, libpam-foreground of course
<mjg59> pitti: Yes - how would that help?
<pitti> mjg59: g-p-m and g-v-m could call it directly instead of going through dbus
<mjg59> It would /work/, but, well
<pitti> that doesn't prevent attacks of course
<pitti> it would just unbreak g-[pv] -m
<pitti> I don't like it either, but ...
<mjg59> Why is it so difficult to get dbus to check to context on every call?
<pitti> mjg59: because you don't have the policy on the call any more
<pitti> mjg59: 'at_console' is completely resolved at policy parsing time
<pitti> it's not stored in any internal data structure
<mjg59> Oh, right. Hmph.
<mjg59> Can we fudge it in without breaking compatibility?
<mjg59> This is something that's going to have to be fixed upstream in any case
<pitti> in principle yes, these are just internal data structures
<pitti> it's just a lot of work
<mjg59> I'll take a quick look later on
<pitti> well, hm, the structs could be public API 
<mjg59> Have to go and finish defrosting a freezer now
<pitti> so it might actually break the ABI
<Kamion> Mithrandir: merged and pushed, thanks
<Mithrandir> Keybuk: where is the bzr branch for your casper stuff?
<Keybuk> Mithrandir: no such thing
<Keybuk> -EEFFORT
<Keybuk> just unpack the new source over the top of your branch and commit :)
<Mithrandir> no, since it was you who did the commit, I committing would be wrong.
<Keybuk> where's your bzr branch?
<Kamion> beta-candidate Ubuntu live CDs up for testing; Kubuntu building
<Kamion> beta2-candidate, that is
<Mithrandir> Keybuk: it's shipped in the source package.
<Mithrandir> Keybuk: but it also lives at http://people.ubuntu.com/~tfheen/bzr/casper/trunk
<Kamion> I particularly want testing of the installer, and especially so if your usual use of the installer triggers a crash; I'd like to know that (a) the installer can be properly restarted after the crash and (b) it doesn't eat your partition table (also check if 'ps aux | grep part' says anything)
<Kamion> I'm reasonably sure both of these properties will hold now
<Kamion> (muttermutterbloodySIGPIPEhandlersanyway)
<Keybuk> Mithrandir: ok, pull from my new upload when it's in the archive
<Mithrandir> Keybuk: you're lazy, but ok :-P
<TheMuso> Kamion: I expect to be able to give the installer a thorough a11y runthrough in the next few days. I have been meaning to for a while, but haven't got round to it yet.
<StevenK> Kamion: Geez, you'd think you were bitter. :-P
<Keybuk> Mithrandir: yes :)  lazyness is a virtue
<Keybuk> (and mostly I can never get bzr push to work for me)
<j^> Keybuk whats your plan for NM, since 0.6.2 orinoco_pci and others are broken for WEP/open aps, this is the case no for some time...
<Kamion> StevenK: no, languages that do things behind my back that have weird side effects that cause me to be responsible for serious data loss don't annoy me at all :P
<Kamion> TheMuso: ta
<Keybuk> j^: ignore it for as long as possible, get drunk, then look at the bug list
<Kamion> Riddell: beta2-candidate Kubuntu live CDs up for testing
<StevenK> Kamion: :-)
<Riddell> Kamion: thanks
<j^> Keybuk hm 'k, sounds like a plan, not a good one though, but hey
<Kamion> Edubuntu and Xubuntu are blocked on the buildds waking up
<Keybuk> j^: if you'd asked a more sensible question, you may have got a more sensible answer
<ogra> Kamion, but i tested the current amd64/i386 already ... should be fine once -meta is done
<Kamion> ogra: your test is kind of meaningless though from the installer point of view, since it was done with espresso, which predates all the fixes I actually care about for beta 2
<ogra> Kamion, i mostly care about the CD working :)
<Kamion> ogra: yes, well I care about the installer not eating people's partition tables, and that's the *entire purpose* of Beta 2
<ogra> yep, i know 
<ogra> but your install CDs didnt explode :)
<Kamion> I can't just not release Beta 2 for Edubuntu, so if you reckon it'll all work, I can just release it and direct complaints to you :)
<ogra> i feared desktop had grown
<zul> heylo
<zakame> hi all
<slomo_> is it a known problem that nothing is built currently?
<Kamion> slomo_: yeah, I was bugging cprov to look into it earlier, but it might need infinity
<Kamion> infinity: if by some miracle you happen to be up ...
<slomo_> hm is auto-depwait cleaning already implemented? i.e. if i upload something that waits for something else to be built and gets on depwait for now it will be cleaned from depwait after the dependency is built? or does this still need manual work?
<bddebian> Heya folks
<sivang> hey bddebian 
<bddebian> Howdy sivang.  What should we break today? ;-P
<Solarion> dholbach: ping
<sivang> bddebian: Well, I've already broken one package, sudo apt-get install upbackup and see for yourself ;-)
<bddebian> Doh
<pitti> sivang: 'no such package'
<slomo_> sivang: where's the problem?
<ogra> its not built yet
<ogra> just passed NEW
<sivang> slomo_: internally in the code :)
<sivang> slomo_: everything looks fine until you try to create a backup archive
<slomo_> sivang: want me to upload a new version?
<Kamion> pitti: remind me, were your ubiquity install test failures on reiserfs?
<pitti> Kamion: yes
<sivang> slomo_: yes, already in revu
<pitti> Kamion: more precisely, it failed if the target root partition was originally reiserfs
<slomo_> sivang: please give me the latest url :)
<pitti> Kamion: i. e. even if it was reformatted to ext3
<pitti> Kamion: thanks for the checkrdepends fix, btw
<Kamion> pitti: not sure about if it's reformatted to ext3, but if it remains reiserfs, I suspect doing 'apt-get --purge remove libreiserfs0.3-0' before starting the installer may help
<slomo_> sivang: and didn't you want to rename the package btw? now if you rename it we have to go through NEW again...
<Kamion> slomo_: that's not massive hardship
<Kamion> given the binary isn't through NEW anyway
<bddebian> Heya slomo_, did you get my e-mail?
<slomo_> bddebian: yes, thanks :) but i didn't read it yet, i will later tonight
<bddebian> NP
<sivang> slomo_: hmm, yesm but I don't chagne the package name right now
<waylandbill> I had a suggestion for the Live CD Installer. Is this the right place?
<slomo_> sivang: ok, np :) but i have to leave now again... i think you'll find someone else to upload it until i'm back
<sivang> slomo_: okay, thanks
<Kamion> waylandbill: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+filebug is a better place, but I'm happy to talk about things if you want to check before filing
<Riddell> Kamion: the 20060416.1 i386 kubuntu live CD seems to be an ubuntu CD
<waylandbill> my suggestion is that the number one question new users have is regarding administration. They don't know the root password. My thought is that when they create the initial user, the screen should let them know that it will be a wheel member and can do admin things via sudo.
<waylandbill> ok.. it may not be the #1 question, but it's a top one. :-)
<mjg59> waylandbill: On new installs, users get a message telling them that
<mjg59> Every time they open a terminal, until they use sudo for the first time
<mjg59> Anyway.
* mjg59 goes out
<Kamion> I've got no objection to mentioning it in the installer
<Kamion> waylandbill: feel free to file a bug about that, URL above
<waylandbill> Kamion, ok. will do.
<Kamion> Riddell: Ubuntu CDs have konqueror on them?
<Kamion> cjwatson@little:~$ grep '^konqueror ' cdimage/www/full/kubuntu/daily-live/20060426.1/dapper-live-i386.manifest
<Kamion> konqueror 4:3.5.2-0ubuntu14
<bddebian> Riddell: I have a dumb question.  I'm thinking of install kubuntu on this Dell laptop sitting here.  Do I just do a normal install then install kubuntu-desktop or is there a better way?
<Riddell> bddebian: normal install?
<bddebian> Riddell: Normal Dapper install
<Riddell> bddebian: if you already have an ubuntu install then apt-get install kubuntu-desktop, if installing from scratch download a kubuntu CD
<bddebian> Oh, hmm
<jjesse> download the live cd and install it from espresso :)
<Riddell> jjesse: espresso doesn't exist any more remember
<bddebian> ubitquity or some such nonsense? :-)
<Kamion> ubiquity
<Kamion> and, come on, it's not like espresso meant anything
<ogra> espresso means staying awake at night ;)
<ogra> (i bet you know that best ;) )
<bddebian> Kamion: Sorry, didn't mean to offend, I'm just bugfighting so I can't keep up with the "real" work :-)
<jjesse> grin i quit forgetting
<bddebian> heh
<jjesse> some college girl came to the running group that my wife and i are a part of and she had three double espressos to help her study for exams and then was going to run, she didn't make it very, just remember don't run on a lot of caffiene
<bddebian> heh
<bddebian> Kamion: Can you fix LP member issues and such?
<carlos> doko: I already removed the oo.org translations you asked me except for the Kurdish  ones because I need to do some changes first
<carlos> doko: feel free to do a new upload, I will fix Kurdish manually later
<doko> carlos: thanks
<carlos> np
<Kamion> bddebian: I can fix you not being a member if you should be, certainly
<Kamion> Riddell: have you sorted out your Kubuntu live CD issues, or does it still seem broken? I can't see any brokenness at little's end
<bddebian> Kamion: Well that and my @ubuntu.com mail has never worked
<bddebian> But maybe you guys don't want me anymore :'-(
<Kamion> bddebian: @ubuntu.com mail is dependent on membership in LP
<ogra> given that he's uploading like mad he should probably be a member :)
<Kamion> bddebian: do you happen to remember roughly when the CC meeting that accepted you was?
<Kamion> ah, 2005-07-19
<bddebian> Egads, it was back when Breezy was getting hot.  I guess I can probably grep the logs
<Kamion> I just did :)
<Kamion> bddebian: please visit https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntumembers/+join
<Riddell> Kamion: I was of course being silly, or k3b was or something
<Riddell> Kamion: all kubuntu live CDs are good
<Riddell> espresso working nicely too
<Riddell> err, ubiquity
<Riddell> doh
<ogra> heh
<Kamion> great
<Kamion> if you fancy triggering the crash handler at some point that'd be good too
<Kamion> it worked for me but of course that's never an endorsement :)
<Kamion> buildds have been restarted and are building stuff, BTW; the sequencer died this morning for unexplained reasons
<bddebian> Kamion: Done, thx
<bddebian> Is the sync issue resolved?
<Kamion> bddebian: not yet, AFAIK
<bddebian> Damnit, eric still doesn't conflict with eric3 even in the new version
<Kamion> bddebian: ubuntumembers membership approved
<bddebian> Thank you sir
<Riddell> bddebian: does eric successfully save files yet?
<Kamion> if the new version isn't needed for that, then just add the conflicts directly?
<bddebian> Riddell: Dunno it's weird.  It went from 3.8.1 to 3.8.2 but the orig.tar.gzs have 0 differences
<pitti> Kamion: just read your libreiserfs0.3-0 mail, thanks for debugging that
<Kamion> I was sitting there going "how the hell can I be getting -EIO in vmware?"
<bddebian> Riddell: When my kubuntu install finishes, I'll test it :-)
<janimo> freeflying: what about the other scim- packages
<janimo> there seem to be more of tjem not included besides the four you mentioned
<bddebian> Yikes, 522Mb of stuff for kubuntu-desktop..
<freeflying> janimo: scim-tables inlude qite more ,like Thai,etc
<janimo> others like cann, prime, skk ?
<janimo> are some of these less needed than others?
<janimo> less frequently used or covering less users?
<janimo> tables-{zh,ja,ko} are those not needed?
<freeflying> janimo: those needn't at all 
<freeflying> tables- would be nice
<janimo> which are not needed? canna, prime, skk? deprecated? I see now they're in universe
<freeflying> janimo: cann, prime, skk 
<nomed> Kamion: i do not know if it has been changed something more than ubiquity in the xubuntu-meta ..
<nomed> but smart doesn't install gnome-session
<nomed> while apt wants to install it ...
<nomed> same for ubuntu-artwork pkge ...
<Kamion> nomed: that's the same problem as we were talking about this morning; nothing's changed
<Kamion> does 'apt-get install xterm xubuntu-desktop' want to install gnome-session too now?
<nomed> Kamion: no
<nomed> but if you remember i told you i would test same stuff in smart
<nomed> and smart doesn't need xterm as first entry
<Kamion> fair enough, and good to know; though it doesn't really help us for dapper ;)
<nomed> eheh i know
<doko> Diziet: do you have an example how to use the <and> and <or> elements in fonts.conf?
<jono> hi all, do you know that a recent xserver-xorg pakcage update is borked?
<nomed> ogra: around ?
<ogra> sure
<nomed> does edubuntu use ubuntu-artwork ?
<Mithrandir> jono: bug #?
<nomed> ogra: i guess it's in the livecd ...
<jono> Mithrandir: just checking if anyone knew about it - its reported on the forums at http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=166410
<Mithrandir> jono: grr, I suck.  Mea culpa, I'll fix it.
<ogra> nomed, beware no !
<jono> Mithrandir: :)
<ogra> nomed, we dont have this much space :)
<ogra> nomed, edubuntu uses edubuntu-artwork only
<nomed> ogra: i'm asking this because gdm wants to install ubuntu-artwork ...
<nomed> i do not understand why it doesn't happen in edubuntu :/
<ogra> it should depend on ubuntu-artwork|edubuntu-artwork|xubuntu-artwork
<ogra> gdm that is
<nomed> same as gnome-session
<nomed> janimo: could you confirm we need this ?
<nomed> apt-get  install xterm xubuntu-default-settings xubuntu-live xubuntu-desktop
<ogra> nomed, that was fixed before seb128 went on holiday
<ogra> ooooh
<ogra> it wasnt apparently
<ogra> gdm depends;  ubuntu-artwork | edubuntu-artwork,
<ogra> xubuntu-artwork needs to be added to that list
<Mithrandir> jono: fix uploaded.
<jono> Mithrandir: thanks :)
<nomed> ogra: the xubuntu problem is that even if gdm has alternatives it tries to use the first entry
<nomed> so even if xubuntu-desktop depends on xterm
<Kamion> janimo: please also try explicitly seeding xubuntu-artwork if you want gdm to use it
<nomed> gdm tries to install gnome-session ...
<jono> Mithrandir: how long does it take to go through?
<Mithrandir> jono: thanks to you too, I should learn to test my changes even when they're trivial..
<Kamion> nomed: ^-- that's probably part of why ubuntu-artwork gets pulled in
<ogra> nomed, not if one of the alternatives is already there
<nomed> Kamion: i guess so
<jsgotangco> heh i just received a bug about the breakage
<Kamion> ogra: not always true, see discussion from this morning
<jsgotangco> i will just tag it as committed
<Mithrandir> jono: probably didn't make this dinstall cycle so it won't be live for another two and a half hours.
<jsgotangco> err released
<Mithrandir> uh, not dinstall, publisher.
<nomed> anyway ...
<ogra> Kamion, if xubuntu-artwork is there it shouldnt attempt to install any other -artwork package, no ?
<nomed> xubuntu-default-settings is there
<Kamion> ogra: see discussion from this morning; it will be quite tedious to go over it again
<ogra> ok
<nomed> and that is where gdm conf file is
<Kamion> ogra: to summarise, if you're installing xubuntu-artwork *at the same time* (rather than it being already installed) then apt sometimes forgets about it when satisfying alternate dependencies
<ogra> hmm, havent seen that with edubuntu 
<nomed> and i really would figure out why this doesn't happen on edubuntu ...
<ogra> but anyway, gdm is missing that dependency
<chris_> hmm
<ogra> as long as thats not fixed it cant work at all
<Kamion> nomed: edubuntu (a) uses gnome-session so doesn't care about that case (b) has edubuntu-artwork explicitly seeded
<chris_> xserver-xorg is broken - you know? 
<Kamion> chris_: yes, (a) fix is making its way through the archive now, (b) use the bug tracking system :)
<nomed> Kamion: k .. got it
<ogra> nomed, you'll need that alternative dep in gdm 
<nomed> ogra: xubuntu-default-setting has gdm theme :)
<Kamion> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/xorg/+bug/41605
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 41605 in xorg xserver-xorg "xserver-xorg broken packaged in update-manager (26/04)" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  
<Kamion> Mithrandir: you might want to close that one
<ogra> nomed, gdm needs a dependency on itz
<jsgotangco> im closing it now
<Kamion> ogra: gdm Depends: ubuntu-artwork | edubuntu-artwork | xubuntu-default-settings
<ogra> currently gdm needs either ubuntu-artwork *or* edubuntu-artwork ... as long as gdm doesnt know about xubuntu it will stay that way
<ogra> Kamion, hmm ? 
<ogra> not here
<ogra>  gksu (>= 1.0.7), ubuntu-artwork | edubuntu-artwork, ubuntu-sounds
<ogra> (powerpc)
<Kamion> ogra: drescher trumps you
<Mithrandir> jsgotangco: you beat me to it, thanks.
<alexr> Mithrandir: Can I ask you a question about live CD?
<alexr> Or maybe somebody else can answer this:
<alexr> If I tweak dapper live cd to add a few packages, everything is fine for the live session.
<alexr> But if I install with espresso then all my packages are removed.
<Kamion> alexr: you need to add suitable lines to /casper/filesystem.manifest and /casper/filesystem.manifest-desktop
<ogra> Kamion, i'm silly and blind, sorry
<alexr> OK, so which manifest is for what?
<Kamion> espresso (now called ubiquity) removes the set-difference of filesystem.manifest-desktop and filesystem.manifest to make sure live-CD-only packages don't get installed
<Kamion> alexr: manifest is everything that's installed, manifest-desktop is the stuff that should end up on the installed system
<alexr> Nice, thanks!
<alexr> Does the alphabetical sorting matter?
<Kamion> alexr: hmm, did you edit manifest?
<Kamion> alexr: (already, before coming here)
<alexr> Kamion: yes, I edited manufest but not -desktop
<Kamion> ah, yeah, thought so
<ogra> apt-cache show shows installed and available versions it seems ... while the installed one comes last ...
<Kamion> alexr: no, sorting doesn't matter
<alexr> Was not sure which is which and whetehr they're used.
<Surak> people using dapper are complaining about latest xorg update.
<Kamion> Surak: already fixed, fix is building
<Surak> thanks. I was doing support at #ubuntu-br and three people asked me this at the same time.
<Kamion> alexr: would a comment at the top of those files be helpful?
<alexr> Kamion: this is how I produced the manifest:
<alexr> dpkg-query -W --showformat='${Package} ${Version}\n'  >  iso/casper/filesystem.manifest
<Kamion> several people have been in here in the last fifteen minutes asking about it
<alexr> Kamion: yes, a comment would be great.
<Kamion> I'd best make ubiquity ignore comments then
<alexr> Kamion: so should I just add my packages to the -desktop manually?
<Surak> Can we change channel topic so people will stop asking this here?
<alexr> Surak: sorry, but where else would I ask this?
<Kamion> alexr: Surak is talking about something else
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-devel:Kamion] : Ubuntu Development (not support, even with dapper) | #ubuntu for support and general discussion | #ubuntu-motu for getting involved in development | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperResources | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/HelpingWithBugs | If your initramfs is broken in any way, please save a copy for infinity | LP upgraded, report issues on #launchpad | Beta released: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-announce/2006-Apri
<Kamion> damn, overflow
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-devel:Kamion] : Ubuntu Development (not support, even with dapper) | #ubuntu for support and general discussion | #ubuntu-motu for getting involved in development | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperResources | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/HelpingWithBugs | If your initramfs is broken in any way, please save a copy for infinity | LP upgraded, report issues on #launchpad | Beta released | yes, xorg is being fixed
<Surak> alexr: i was talking about xorg , as the channel topic confirms to us now :-)
<alexr> Surak: no problem :-)
<alexr> Kamion: so does ubiquity use same seeding mechanism as the former instalelr?
<Kamion> alexr: yeah, just add them manually. We do it by running the exact same dpkg-query command you used, but twice: once after installing everything up to ubuntu-desktop etc., and once after installing the rest
<Kamion> alexr: kinda sorta
<Kamion> alexr: what exactly do you mean?
<alexr> Kamion: how do I find out the username of the first created user?
<Kamion> alexr: passwd/username in debconf
<alexr> So this did not change.
<Kamion> we use a lot of the same code
<Kamion> and a lot of new code
<alexr> Before, I would add this in the install CD's seed file:
<alexr> Darn, can't find it now :-)
<alexr> I would add this in the postinst:
<alexr> set -e
<alexr> . /usr/share/debconf/confmodule
<alexr> db_get passwd/username
<Kamion> what postinst?
<alexr> if [ -n "$RET" ]  ; then
<alexr>   LOGIN=$RET
<alexr> of my new package, to configure few things.
<Kamion> well, your postinst won't be run - ubiquity expects all packages to already be installed
<Kamion> you can drop extra hooks into /usr/lib/ubiquity/target-config/ though
<alexr> So I need to install it on the live session first.
<Surak> thanks kamion. time to lunch now.
<alexr> Kamion: does /usr/lib/ubiquity/target-config/ has any files with comments?
<alexr> How do I hook anything up?
<alexr> Or any docs, maybe?...
<Kamion> those'll be run on the live filesystem so you refer to the installed system using /target
<Kamion> alexr: it's primarily there for casper so there are some examples in the ubiquity-casper package; it should already be installed on your live CD
<alexr> Kamion: The examples are installed?
<alexr> Kamion: I'll take a look, thanks!
<Kamion> examples was a poor choice of wording; they're required for the operation of the installer, but you can use them as examples
<Riddell> dholbach: did I see you making something depend on kde-icons-crystal the other day?
<Kamion> note that the live filesystem's debconf database is not copied to the installed system at present, so if you need to fish stuff out of the installer's db, you need to do that before reboot
<Kamion> I haven't decided whether I think that's a bug or not yet
<alexr> Kamion: sounds good, I'll try.
<alexr> Kamion: I have a beta lice cd now, and it says espresso.
<Kamion> should probably be saved at least for debug purposes
<alexr> Is espresso -> ubiquity just the name change?
<Kamion> alexr: it'll be /usr/lib/espresso/target-config/ then; we renamed it after beta
<alexr> Yeah, I get it.
<alexr> :-)
<Kamion> we'll be releasing a second beta tomorrow, because the beta was a bit buggered
<alexr> Nice!
<Riddell> dholbach: yes, tango-icon-theme does, why is that?
<Kamion> you probably want to fetch a daily live CD
<elmo> mvo_: ping?
<alexr> Kamion: thanks a lot for your help!
<Kamion> np
<mvo_> elmo: pong?
<elmo> mvo_: any luck/ideas with the update-manager icon disappearance?
<elmo> unrelated: does anyone know how I convince a partition that's in /etc/fstab to appear in nautilus?  someone at the office just upgraded to dapper and their /windows partition is no longer available in nautlius
<nomed> Riddell: as i reported that bug ..
<mvo_> elmo: not yet, sorry. it is still not available on your system? does it come up when you run apt-get update?
<nomed> i just suggested to add kde-icons-crystal because tango Inherits it
<nomed> but not as depends entry .. 
<elmo> mvo: nope.  anyway, it's not mega urgent.  should I just file a bug?  mostly wanted to confirm it wasn't PEBKAC
<mvo_> elmo: unrelated, I merged the apt-ftparchive stuff from aj, it has a NEWS.Debian note that the format changed and will give a useful error message - do you think that is enough to make people happy? 
<mvo_> elmo: please file a bug then
<Kamion> mvo_: format changed how?
<pitti> elmo: many users complained about seeing partitions on their desktop which aren't in /media, so I configured hal to not show them by default
<pitti> elmo: the easy way is to mount it below /media
<pitti> elmo: the more complicated one is to adapt the hal policy for this drive
<pitti> elmo: if you are interested in the latter, I can create a hal fdi snippet for you
<elmo> pitti: ok, super thanks
<elmo> pitti: nah, I'll just move it to /media, that's fine
<mvo_> Kamion: the format of the db in apt-ftparchive changed from DB_HASH to DB_BTREE
<pitti> this was highly controversial, we just need to do something that isn't too evil by default
<elmo> pitti: it's a little undiscoverable is my only concern for people updating from breezy -> dapper, but OTOH, I'm not sure if it's worth an entry in the release notes
<Riddell> nomed: yes, it's only a Suggests, not a depends
<Kamion> mvo_: ah, ok, doesn't affect me then
<Riddell> nomed: but kde-icons-crystal has everaldo's theme, crystalsvg itself is from kdelibs
<pitti> elmo: gnome upstream removed the configurability of this in the last minutes before the 2.14 release :(
<elmo> mvo_: fine by me
<pitti> (yay rigid freeze processes)
<nomed> Riddell: so probaly kde-icon-theme shouldn't be in Suggests
<Kamion> anyone else tested today's Ubuntu/Kubuntu live CD installation yet? Ubuntu/i386 is working fine for me
<nomed> it's been my mistake reporting the bug
<pitti> Kamion: is today's of particular interest, i. e. is it a flight candidate? I can download and test powerpc and/or amd64 if necessary
<Riddell> nomed: I've reported another bug https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/tango-icon-theme/+bug/41613
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 41613 in tango-icon-theme "Suggests kde-icons-crystal" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  
<Kamion> pitti: beta2 candidate
<doko> Diziet: ping
<Kamion> pitti: (just the live CD, no need to particularly test the install CD)
* pitti rsyncs
<Kamion> ta
<pitti> will take a while, though (rsync bandwidth sucks)
* mvo_ goes for dinner
* mvo_ rsyncs the images
<trappist> it looks like cups 1.2 client software has trouble sending attributes-natural-language in a way that's breaking compatibility with cups 1.1 server
<trappist> in bug 41593
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 41593 in cupsys "Bad Request generated printing to remote CUPS server" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/41593
<pitti> trappist: ah, thanks for tracking that down
<trappist> that was known?
<pitti> trappist: that should be forwarded as an STR to upstream
<pitti> trappist: well, I just read your bug report
<trappist> ah :)
<pitti> but I need to do some non-cups stuff for a while now
<glatzor> hi mvo_:  would it not be suffcient if we would realize the synaptic fetch window before you obtain the _gc? if we could show the window later it would be centered on the parent. currently it is centered and shown before it contains any text.
<MrFaber> BenC: you there?
<trappist> pitti: I'll send something upstream
<pitti> trappist: that would be great!
<BenC> MrFaber: yeah
<MrFaber> hi BenC thanks
<MrFaber> BenC: I have posted a bug https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/linux-source-2.6.15/+bug/36014 . It only happens with 686 version with kernel 20 kernel but with kernel 21 it happens with both versions
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 36014 in linux-source-2.6.15 "kernel 686 can't scale cpu frequency" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  
<dholbach> Riddell: merely suggest
<dholbach> Riddell: as tango *can* fall back to crystal
<BenC> mroth: ok, I'll check on it
<glatzor> mvo_: do you think that it is sufficient to be a male geriatic student nurse to take part in the google summer of code? :)
<MrFaber> BenC: Should I post another bug report or anyhting else?
<elmo> pitti: that didn't seem to work - would I need to log in and out for it to take effect?
<Riddell> dholbach: yeah, but wrong crystal
<BenC> MrFaber: no, just append any info to the existing one
<MrFaber> ok, thx
<dholbach> Riddell: uh?
<Riddell> dholbach: see https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/tango-icon-theme/+bug/41613
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 41613 in tango-icon-theme "Suggests kde-icons-crystal" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  
<pitti> elmo: yes; killall gnome-vfs-daemon nautilus might work, too
<dholbach> Riddell: thanks - will take care of it.
<elmo> pitti: ok, cool,l thanks
<bddebian> Ack, I hate packages that just have a debian dir and a tarball :-(
<pitti> bddebian: for any particular reason?
<bddebian> pitti: Quick and dirty patches are a PITA :-)
<pitti> bddebian: well, quick and dirty in-line patching and immediately trying the results is very nice OTOH :)
<pitti> without ever breaking the source package
<bddebian> pitti: ??
<bddebian> Heya LaserJock.  Done your homework first? ;-P
<pitti> bddebian: you can hack around in the build-tree, do autoconf magic, whatever, it won't break the source
<bddebian> pitti: Aye but the package has no current patch system and I just wanted to in-line the changes since it's gonna come down in Debian later
<pitti> bddebian: huh? there is a build-tree-based package with no patch system?
<pitti> which package are we talking about?
<bddebian> fwbuilder
<pitti> bddebian: it's dbs, so just mkdir debian/patches should work
<pitti> bddebian: dbs-edit-patch is your friend
<Riddell> Kamion: another confirmation of i386 kubuntu live beta 2 candidate CD working
<bddebian> I'm tempted to just reject the bug.  It's just a typo
<Riddell> from Lure 
<bddebian> Not worth my time :-(
<pitti> bddebian: file it to Debian and set it to low prio then
<trappist> pitti: STR #1605 - is that not set up as a bug system (to link to) in malone?
* bddebian wonders if his kubuntu install will ever finish.. sheesh
<pitti> trappist: not yet unfortunately; can you please just do a LP bug followup with the URL?
<bddebian> pitti: OK, thx
<trappist> yep
* pitti hugs trappist 
<darius_> Is there a current/known bug with Dapper beta idling at high CPU consumption?
<darius_> I've been idling with very high load averages since install Dapper on my HP laptop
<Diziet> I've got Xeno's progress bar here.
<Diziet> Err, Zeno.
<Diziet> I've been doing too much Xen.
<darius_> but I don't know how to analyze the problem to produce a useful bug report
<mdke> darius_, use "top" to see which process is taking up the cpu, then file a bug?
<Diziet> Is it know that the daily livecd's installer crashes just when you tell it to restart ? :-)
<darius_> mdke: no process is claiming the cpu usage
<Diziet> I have to copy-type the URL from the dialogue box !
<Robot101> Diziet: did they show any signs of having fixed or responded to the broken network back-end checksum offloading flags?
<Diziet> Robot101: I've not heard anything but it's been a while since I caught up on the xen-devel list.
<ogra> Kamion, https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/edubuntu-devel/2006-April/001353.html please see the last bulletpoint, can we manage that alone or should we leave the decision to the CC ?
<Diziet> OMG.  The dapper beta's partition discoverer has dug into my LVM system to find the volumes belonging to frozen Xen images ...
<jdub> Diziet: NO ONE IS SAFE
<Diziet> You may remember me having to reinstall my laptop at UBZ because Breezy had found my suspended fs's and replayed the journal, and then when I resumed it the journal got replayed again.
<FunnyLookinHat> On latest updates:
<FunnyLookinHat> E: /var/cache/apt/archives/xserver-xorg_7.0.0-0ubuntu31_i386.deb: subprocess pre-installation script returned error exit status 2
<Diziet> But this is much worse.
<ogra> FunnyLookinHat, topic
<bddebian> Ah, that xorg bug if fscking my kubuntu install :'-(
<sivang> re
<Kamion> Diziet: not heard of a crash on reboot before
<Kamion> I'll make the URL bit selectable
<Diziet> Kamion: thanks.  You see no doubt that I've reported the crash too.
<Diziet> Also, now I've reported that volume management bug which is going to really bite me badly now.  If I can't install without it trashing other stuff on the machine without even asking I'm going to have serious trouble testing it !
<Diziet> Maybe I should encrypt my LVM setup to defend it against new dapper installs :-).
<bddebian> heh
<sivang> bddebian: in what way is Xorg broken?
<ogra> bddebian, and why did you break it
<bddebian> sivang: post inst borkage I think
<bddebian> ogra: For fun? :-)
<ogra> ah, i knew you were bored about all this scilab rebuilds
<bddebian> ogra: No, that's just my stupidity :-(
<bddebian> Ohh, a kubuntu splash screen, I'm getting there
<sivang> ogra: can't be that he broke it :)
<sivang> I don't believe it
<ogra> sivang, but you seem to think he knows why its broken :P
<bddebian> Hmm, dunno if I like the login screen for kubuntu
<sivang> /var/lib/dpkg/tmp.ci/config: line 973: syntax error near unexpected token `)'
<sivang> bddebian: is that what you get?
<sivang> ogra: :)
<ogra> sivang, topic :)+
<Mithrandir> sivang: already fixed.
<sivang> Mithrandir: cool, /me hugs
<bddebian> Hey, what's with Gnome still coming up.. Hmm
<sivang> nice,
<sivang> my thinkpad buttons stopped working
<sivang> (vol up/down)
<pitti> Riddell: http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/langpacks/ has fresh langpacks; can you please test the KDE ones?
<pitti> Riddell: this is the first time we include KDE translations from Rosetta
<pitti> carlos: ^ can you test the Spanish ones?
<AnsiC> hello
<AnsiC> source /home/user/VARIABLES/directories
<AnsiC> mkdir -p $BINUTILS_BD && cd $BINUTILS_BD
<AnsiC> $BINUTILS_SD/configure --prefix=/usr --disable-nls
<AnsiC> make configure-host && make LDFLAGS=-all-static 
<AnsiC> i want install all into /home/user/new_root
<AnsiC> for use binutils into chroot enviroment
<AnsiC> i must write: make install_root=/home/user/new_root ?
<AnsiC> or
<AnsiC> make install install_root=/home/user/new_root ?
<Kamion> Diziet: I didn't expect it to be able to get at LVM at all; it's not supposed to support LVM ...
<Kamion> #41619 is a regression from beta though, whoops
<LaserJock> Kamion: are you talking about ubiquity?
<Kamion> LaserJock: yes
<LaserJock> Kamion: so it designed to not work with LVM? I tryed to install from the Beta livecd but the partitioning was a beast
<Kamion> LaserJock: yes, we have enough trouble making it work for everything else without trying to make it work for LVM in the dapper timeframe as well
<Kamion> the general structure of the partitioner is unfortunately about the best we can do for dapper now, but there's plenty of scope for bug fixes
<LaserJock> Kamion: is that noted somewhere? It might be nice to have a wiki page that does a compare/contrast of the 2 installers that is linked to the download page
<LaserJock> Kamion: In this case I don't think "graphical" vs "text-based" really describes the differences :-)
<Kamion> LaserJock: it's somewhere in the specifications, but yes, we should draw up better documentation pre-dapper
* pitti starts ppc/live test
<Kamion> am going to have to rebuild unfortunately
<LaserJock> Kamion: btw, the livecd rocks
<pitti> oh, ok, then I'll wait
<Kamion> but go ahead anyway, it'll be a while and the results will probably be mostly good enough
<Kamion> pitti: no, don't wait :)
* pitti proceeds
<pitti> Kamion: shall I try a reiserfs installation this time?
<Kamion> changes will be roughly (a) remove libreiserfs0.3-0 (b) fix reboot step (c) fix crash in KDE partitioner if I can
<Kamion> pitti: if you do 'apt-get --purge remove libreiserfs0.3-0' first, sure
<Kamion> it'll remove ubuntu-minimal and ubuntu-base too
<pitti> right, that's what I had in mind
<pitti> oh, and when I try the amd64 install, I will install to /dev/hdc2 to finally check this grub install bug again
<pitti> is there any KDE user around here who would be willing to test new language packs?
<Kamion> shame I have to rebuild though, today's images were looking golden :/
* pitti pats Ka'to boldly install what noone installed before'mion
<Kamion> the decision to add a crash handler was the right one, even though it feels like admitting defeat; today's bug reports have been an order of magnitude better than previous ones
<pitti> Kamion: enabling verbose logging by default should help, too, I guess?
<pitti> the ESPRESSO_DEBUG=1 trick was pretty non-obvious
<Kamion> pitti: it's only a little more verbose now; I can't turn it all the way on because it's inconveniently hard to stop debconf logging the password in its debug mode
<Kamion> so I can't get debconf debugging, which was really the most useful
<Kamion> but better than nothing
<pitti> wow, ubiquity took an enormous amount of time to start up, but maybe that's just me
<pitti> Kamion: oh, btw, do you use Rosetta translations for ubiquity now? I'd like to complete the German translation
<Kamion> pitti: yeah, although sometimes it requires adding translations to the regular installer too
<Kamion> (but that's really a feature)
* Kamion has to run to karate, so this ubiquity upload will have to wait until I get back; see you later
<pitti> Kamion: enjoy!
* pitti greets Kamion with a Kihap :)
<carlos> pitti: Please, wait until tomorrow's export to do a new language packs upload 
<pitti> ouch
<carlos> you will get more than 100 new translation domains 
<pitti> carlos: ok, fine for me
<poningru> I wanted to write a spec on the wiki for easyencryption but it wont let me, what can I do?
<poningru> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/easy-encryption
<ogra> poningru, #launchpad
<poningru> oh sorry
<bddebian> w00t, I have KDEage
<ogra> bddebian, kde age ? below 15 ?
* ogra hides from Riddell's wrath
<Treenaks> ogra: hey, that's remarkable close too gentoo-age ;)
* Treenaks goes in hiding as well
<ogra> lol
<bddebian> bah :-)
<crimsun> should I be addressing universe/multiverse uploads being dropped silently in here or in #launchpad?
<pitti> crimsun: cprov is the man to talk to
<pitti> crimsun: so, #launchpad probably
<crimsun> pitti: thanks
* pitti writes 'apt-bet' and notices that this is a pretty funny tyop
<pitti> typo even (d'oh)
<ivoks> hello
<pitti> hi ivoks 
<ivoks> pitti: i saw one package with 1> /dev/bull :)
* dholbach did that mistake :)
* dholbach hugs ivoks
<ivoks> :)
<pitti> hi dhugbach!
<_ion> Hehe.
<bddebian> hehe
<ivoks> pitti: what do you say about idea for cups browsing?
<pitti> ivoks: sounds pretty good actuall
<pitti> y
<pitti> ivoks: however, "Browsing on" still has to be enabled for exporting printers IIRC
<ivoks> right
<pitti> ivoks: but I'd be fine with /usr/share/cups/enable_sharing as an enable_browsing counterpart
<pitti> and adding that to gnome-cups-manager
<pitti> patches appreciated, though, ENOTIME :/
<ivoks> :)
<pitti> I need to catch up with some non-printing stuff now
<ivoks> ok, i'll try to manage something by the end of the day/week :)
<pitti> cool :)
<pitti> ivoks: the good thing is that ports.conf is already separated, so we don't need to hack the main conffile
<ivoks> right
<ivoks> my solution was in that direction, so we don't have to change anything
<ivoks> except needed
<pitti> doko: you set bug 39604 to 'in progress' - do you have any patch pending for that?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 39604 in gnome-cups-manager "gnome-cups-add can take a long time to start up, with no user feedback" [Minor,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/39604
<pitti> Kamion: ppc ubiquity installation success (on reiserfs with libreiserfs purged, no network, German locale)
<ivoks> pitti: what do you say enable_sharing triggers enable_browsing?
<ivoks> better not...
<ivoks> :)
<pitti> ivoks: I didn't really verify that Browsing must be on for exports to work; if that is really the case, that seems logical
<ivoks> it must be
<ivoks> but this isn't logical (restarting cups twice)
<Mithrandir> pitti: do we have any reports on broken cups/gs/hpijs along the lines of "won't print anything except garbage"?
<Mithrandir> pitti: (my printer is an hp lj1100a)
<ivoks> 1100? isn't that winprinter?
<Mithrandir> no, PCL
<pitti> Mithrandir: with hplip?
<Mithrandir> pitti: I'm not sure of the distinction between hpijs and hplip; there's an hpijs process, no hplip processes
<pitti> Mithrandir: not against cupsys at least
<Mithrandir> pitti: what's a good place to start debugging?
<pitti> Mithrandir: oh, I neither know hplip nor hpijs, I don't have such a printer
<Mithrandir> heh, ok
<Mithrandir> this used to work some time ago, so it's a regression
<pitti> Mithrandir: if it's just garbabe, then I'd start with checking mime type detection
<Mithrandir> PCL looks pretty much like garbage, though
<pitti> Mithrandir: you should set LogLevel to 'debug' in /etc/cups/cupsd.conf
<pitti> Mithrandir: and tail -f /var/log/cups/error_log
<pitti> Mithrandir: this should log mime types and such
<pitti> Mithrandir: does printing a test page in the cups web interface do the same?
<doko> pitti: yes, an ugly one
<Mithrandir> pitti: let's see about the test page.
<Mithrandir> pitti: yes, same kind of garbage too.
<pitti> doko: busy cursor, or a dialog?
<pitti> Mithrandir: so it either uses the wrong printer driver or it tries to print PCL as ASCII, or so?
<Mithrandir> pitti: yes, and it's certainly not postscript what it's printing so I suspect the latter
<pitti> hm, I really have no clue about hp{lip,ijs} - doko, do you know how it works in principle?
<doko> pitti: neither. a progress bar didn't work (the loading of the printer list uses gtk/glade and cannot run in a separate thread, cursor: don't know ... nothing is displayed. so it's just a box saying "lReading ..."
<doko> Mithrandir: does the ljet4 driver work?
* pitti tests the amd64 live CD, bbl
<Mithrandir> doko: let's see.
<Mithrandir> doko: nope
<doko> Mithrandir: would be interesting to see what breezy did use
<Mithrandir> doko: as in what it output?
<doko> Mithrandir: yes, if it works at all, and with which driver
<Mithrandir> doko: it worked fine and with the ljet4 driver, iirc.
<Mithrandir> hmm
<Mithrandir> I wonder if: [ 1936.083230]  DMA write timed out
<Mithrandir> has anything to do with it.
<doko> parallel port?
<Mithrandir> mhm
<Mithrandir> ok, turning off ECP fixed it.
<doko> Mithrandir: but with the hplip driver?
<Mithrandir> that was with ljet4, trying with hpijs now
<Mithrandir> yup, worked too
<doko> can you detect if ECP is turned on in the BIOS?
<Mithrandir> well, the kernel said Apr 26 21:47:24 xoog kernel: [  189.402623]  lp0: ECP mode
<Mithrandir> so yes, the kernel can, at least
<pitti_live> Mithrandir: could be a bit related to bug 29050
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 29050 in cupsys "cupsys does not automatically detect parallel printer" [Major,Needs info]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/29050
<Mithrandir> pitti_live: it appears to fix itself when I turned off ECP though
<pitti_live> Mithrandir: I asked the bugs which indicate parallel printer problems about checking for ECP/EPP
<pitti_live> Mithrandir: if that reveals some consistency, I'll bug upstream about it
<pitti_live> Mithrandir: from the bug reports it seems that this worked in breezy, though, so it smells like a cups regression
<pitti_live> Mithrandir: thanks for hunting it
<Mithrandir> pitti_live: I could always try to run a breezy kernel on this machine to see if it fixes it.  If so, it's mostly a smogb.
<pitti_live> Mithrandir: right, and/or the breezy cups debs on dapper
<pitti_live> Mithrandir: they work, if you install libgnutls11
<pitti_live> Mithrandir: that would rock!
<pitti_live> I'm rebooting now, brb
<dholbach> see you
<pitti> Kamion: amd64/live ubiquity install worked fine, too
<Kamion> pitti: thanks
<Kamion> pitti: Kihap?
<pitti> Kamion: it's the 'battle yell' in Korean (for Taekwondo)
<Kamion> ah, karate equivalent = kiai
<pitti> ah, nice to know :)
* bddebian goes all Shaolin on Kamion
<Seveas> pitti, re bug 41659: kamion just really wants you to run memtest ;)
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 41659 in ubiquity "memtest entry grows longer and longer in installed grub menu.lst" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/41659
<Kamion> heh, a fun side-effect of the use of os-prober in grub-installer
<Kamion> I think we have another bug filed along those lines somewhere, although the symptoms are different
<pitti> Seveas: no, it's a s3kr3t way of tracing and logging all my installation attempts :)
<Seveas> Colin "Big Brother" Watson 
<Kamion> is Luka Renko here?
<Seveas> Lure, ?
<Kamion> Lure: please be more careful about duplicating bugs; 41618 and 41619 aren't
<Kamion> ah, I see you already unduplicated it, never mind
<Lure> Kamion: yep, seen immediately and removed duplicate mark
<Kamion> cool, thanks
#ubuntu-devel 2006-05-02
<ivoks> hello
<ivoks> pitti: i'm almost done... :)
<pitti> ivoks: cool!
<ivoks> cups part is done
<ivoks> i had one bug in g-c-m
<ivoks> but now i'm rebuilding fixed veresion
<ivoks> version
<ivoks> argh... i forgot one detail :)
<ivoks> patch for cupsd.conf...
<ivoks> ok, tomorrow you'll have everything in your mail
<pitti> good night everyone
<ogra> night pitti
<ivoks> 'night
<jordi> ok, so I have new Catalan dictionary pacakges which fix a good deal of problems the current dapper version has.
* jordi searches for the way to get it pushed to uubntu
<zul> heylo
<mdke> mako, around by any chance?
<jmg> hi all
<jordi> mdz: ok, I think this is all I need to do, #41678
<jordi> mdz: TELl me if you need anything else.
<mdz> jordi: that's fine
<jordi> mdz: cool
<mdz> jordi: there is nothing more to TELl
<jordi> mdz: that was a CAPSLOCKPROBLEM I TELL YOU
<mdz> oh sure
* jordi has no running water at home, currently.
* jordi would like to brush his teeth.
<jmg> gah
<Kamion> right, that had better be the last ubiquity upload I need for beta2
<mdke> as long as the internet is working, right?
* Kamion is off to bed and will let the cron jobs build the images for a change
<jordi> Kamion: ?
<Kamion> jordi: !
<jordi> ubiquity upload?
<jordi> I thought you meant ispellcat. nm :)
<Kamion> a popular beat combo^W^W^Wpackage, m'lud
<jordi> Kamion: will you be in mx?
<jordi> or you, mdz?
<mdz> jordi: ispellcat is slightly lower priority than "beta eats disks" ;-)
<mdz> jordi: I will, yes.
<jordi> oh man
<jordi> I'm fearing that my tactics to do a last min plan to go there will fail.
<jordi> You'll have to pop the trunk w/o me :|
<Kamion> jordi: unfortunately not
<jordi> mdz: what do you mean lower priority? This is the end of ubuntu! Ubuntu will be as relevant as Caldera after this
<jmg> "beta eats disks"?
<jordi> Kamion: that sucks :/
<jmg> mehico?
<mdz> jordi: I expect to be working most of the time anyway
<jordi> mdz: yes, it's surprising that you'll be there actually, the release will be so near
<jordi> k this is embarrasing
<jordi> can't find my way to the d-i translation template url
<Kamion> jmg: launchpad.net/bugs/40464
<jordi> aha
<Kamion> sometimes you just have bug numbers memorised ...
<mdz> jordi: I was unsure about going, but in the end I think I need to represent us there
<jordi> yes
<jordi> is mark not going?
<infinity> Hrm.  Does anyone else think that the flat version of our vendor logo looked much cleaner and more professional than the sketchy 3d-ish version I now have in the corner of my panel?
<infinity> (Nevermind that the official Ubuntu logo /is/ flat, not "puffy")
<ogra> infinity, it was never flat, it was punched in
<infinity> ogra: The logo itself was flat.
<infinity> ogra: The fact that the flat logo was then punched into the background is irelevant.
<ogra> the vendor logo we used in breezy was punched ;)
<ogra> or since breezy 
<infinity> Yes, punched into the background.  Flat logo.  Unless I can't remember yesterday.
<infinity> Which is possible.
<infinity> I just know that today's looks less clean.  Too much dither in an attempt to make a (very) tiny icon 3D.
<ogra> it had a slight black shadow on the upper left side of the circle (you would have noticed in 48px size)
<infinity> Erm, yes.  We're talking past each other.
<infinity> The LOGO was flat, and was then "punched in" to the "background".
<ogra> i'd rather liked to have seen that effect more worked out than a blurry shadow around it
<infinity> That's different from the current logo, which is now "puffy" and doughnut-shaped. :)
<ogra> yep
<ogra> what i was after was to point out that the punching doesnt affect the sharpness ;)
<ogra> while a shadow does
<infinity> A shadow would have little effect either, it's the insistence in turning the flat logo into a torus that affects sharpness. :)
<infinity> (The shadow under it isn't spectacular either, but pales in comparison to the horror that is the torus.
<infinity> )
<ogra> hmm i really need to update my other machine ... the edubuntu logo doesnt/wont have a shadow 
<ogra> i only saw the proposals for the shadow stuff on ubuntu-art
<jmg> hmm
<jmg> anyone know a way to compare file1 and file2, and not display a line from file1 if it is in file2?
<mdz> jmg: sort + comm
<mdz> jordi: yes, he is
<mako> mdke: i'm around now
<jsgotangco> does the dvd still follow the install/live structure we had on breezy?
<zul> heylo
<jmg> jsgotangco: are we even making a dvd?
<jsgotangco> jmg: we have a dvd for 5.10 (install and live in one  disc)
<jsgotangco> mako: nice to see you online again
<jmg> ah i remember
<jmg> i should go try uninstall kubuntu now
<Surak> bug #30701 should be marked as upstream, but how? the package list does not show anything related to zodb.
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 30701 in zodb "python2.4-zodb should depend on python2.4-zopeinterface?" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/30701
<Surak> it is related with debian bug #360493 , but I don't know on which package I should add a watch on this specific case.
<Ubugtu> Debian bug 360493 in python2.3-zodb "Subject: python2.3-zodb: Conflicts with python2.3-zopeinterface" [Normal,Closed]  http://bugs.debian.org/360493
<Surak> perhaps ubuntu-bugs is best suited for asking this.
<jmg> hmm
<bddebian> Heya
<TheMuso> /c/
<netstar> what's wrong with xorg?
<HrdwrBoB> it doesn't like you
<netstar> oh no
<ivoks> question of the week
<netstar> I see no problem
<netstar> Though I haven't rebooted in 3 days
<ivoks> netstar: it's normal for packages to break in development version
<netstar> ivoks: sure
<fabbione> netstar: nothing you need to worry about
<fabbione> if you had the problem you would have come here screaming
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-devel:Mithrandir] : Ubuntu Development (not support, even with dapper) | #ubuntu for support and general discussion | #ubuntu-motu for getting involved in development | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperResources | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/HelpingWithBugs | If your initramfs is broken in any way, please save a copy for infinity | LP upgraded, report issues on #launchpad | Beta released
<Mithrandir> (removed xorg; it has been fixed for > 12 hours)
<fabbione> Mithrandir: i am taking a lock on X
<Mithrandir> fabbione: please do.
<ivoks> you can put ubuntu+1 for questions about dapper :/
<pitti> Good morning
<netstar> guten tag
<netstar> Still having issues with hostap over orinoco-cs
<freeflying> pitti: hi, how about split language-support-zh into language-support-zh-cn and language-support-zh-tw?
<netstar> it hangs the machine on boot, until I remove the PCMCIA card, the only solution is remove the hostap kernel modules
<pitti> freeflying: that's not how we designed them to work unfortunately
* netjoined: irc.freenode.net -> brown.freenode.net
<zakame> hi all
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-devel:Kamion] : Ubuntu Development (not support, even with dapper) | #ubuntu for support and general discussion | #ubuntu-motu for getting involved in development | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperResources | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/HelpingWithBugs | If your initramfs is broken in any way, please save a copy for infinity | LP upgraded, report issues on #launchpad | Beta released | Please test Ubuntu/Kubuntu/Edubuntu daily-live (beta2 cand
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-devel:Kamion] : Ubuntu Development (not support, even with dapper) | #ubuntu for support and general discussion | #ubuntu-motu for getting involved in development | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperResources | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/HelpingWithBugs | If your initramfs is broken in any way, please save a copy for infinity | LP upgraded, report issues on #launchpad | Beta released | Please test Ubuntu/Kubuntu/Edubuntu daily-live (beta2?)
<Kamion> more verbosely, the current Ubuntu/Kubuntu/Edubuntu daily-live builds are beta2 candidates; please test them
<Kamion> Xubuntu will be forthcoming later this morning
<zakame> yay \o/
<zakame> hmm has kdrill been synced? re, malone 28810
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 28810 in kdrill "undeclared dependency on libXp6" [Major,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/28810
<Kamion> zakame: syncs are broken at the moment; will hopefully be repaired soon
<zakame> Kamion: ah, yes I remember now from qprocd...
<kagou> hi
<zakame> hello kagou 
<pitti> Kamion: do you have any objections against putting sqwebmail (and with it courier-maildrop) into supported? we have to support its source 'courier' anyway, and it would give us a webmailer (I was often-asked for that)
<dholbach> pitti: you better ask the support department :-p
<dholbach> but I agree that it might be nice to have
<jdub> sqwebmail is a bit... scary
<dholbach> it might be a bit tough to support hula  :)
<jdub> yeah, someone should totally finish or release that or something ;)
<dholbach> finish as in what? as in remove all the old crufty code from it?
<dholbach> i mean... it *looks* nice
<jdub> it's in pretty thick devel atm, replacing chunks, heaps of stuff
<dholbach> yeah and debian do a good job in packaging it
<jdub> even recent stuff?
<dholbach> yeah, more than we do
<jdub> hrm, last update was november though
<jdub> of an svn revision first uploaded in september
<zakame> hm, which packge?
<jdub> hula
<dholbach> oh?
<jdub> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=360245
<jdub> ha ha
<Ubugtu> Debian bug 360245 in hula "Subject: hula: Please package newer versions" [Wishlist,Open]  
* dholbach takes it all back, then.
<kagou> jdub: :D
<dholbach> but still there was more action in the debian hula team
<jdub> i think that lines up fairly closely with the massive crazy changes going on in hula
<jdub> As of today, the latest is r1212, while
<jdub> version in unstable is r379.
<jdub> september vs. march
<jdub> funy
<jdub> funny
<kagou> pitti: i think that in near futur we must support a groupware tool too. Like http://www.phpgroupware.org/ http://mirror.open-xchange.org/ox/EN/community/ or http://egroupware.org/
<pitti> kagou: arrrgh php web applications
<kagou> these tools including webmail
<dholbach> Gloubiboulga: I uploaded goffice patch
<dholbach> Gloubiboulga: thanks for your work
<Gloubiboulga> dholbach, thanks! I'll prepare the gnumeric patch then
<dholbach> Gloubiboulga: rock on
<highvoltage> gnumeric, yeah!
<dholbach> Gloubiboulga: do you have any other stuff in the pipeline?
<dholbach> Gloubiboulga: or janimo? wrt building more versions of stuff
<dholbach> Gloubiboulga: did you guys want to look into updating abiword too?
<Gloubiboulga> dholbach, you mean for gtk/gnome packages ?
<dholbach> Gloubiboulga: yeah
<dholbach> bug 39612 is still open about abiword
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 39612 in abiword "Request for UVF exception - Release of Bugfix-only AbiWord 2.4.4" [Normal,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/39612
<Gloubiboulga> abiword has no gnome dependencie iirc
<dholbach> yeah
<dholbach> i rather meant the update
<dholbach> anf uvf exception etc
<dholbach> s/anf/and
<Gloubiboulga> we didn't plan to work on this, but I guess we could
<Gloubiboulga> hub doesn't package this new release?
<dholbach> Kinnison: could you tell me about your gpm plans? would it be ok, if I'd patch some icons in? (patch adding new files, modifying rules,control) or do you want me to wait until you uploaded the new stuff?
<dholbach> Gloubiboulga: hub is upstream, but never was much involved in packaging, I guess.
<Gloubiboulga> dholbach, ah ok, I thought he was the package maintainer too
<nomed> Gloubiboulga, i'll be happy to help you on that later 
<Gloubiboulga> nomed, great! and hi ;)
<nomed> for testing i 'm available even now :)
<Gloubiboulga> nomed, could you /join #xubuntu?
<nomed> Gloubiboulga, i'll not be really active but yes :)
<siretart> is dapper/main frozen currently?
<dholbach> siretart: no
<siretart> ok. thanks
<fabbione> mdz: FYI: x11-common already Conflicts with xorg-common.. but as well Replaces it...  xorg-common gets removed, but not purged on breezy -> dapper upgrade
<doko> pitti: please could you have a look at g-c-m before an upload?
<pitti> doko: yes, of course, if I can be of any help...
<pitti> doko: maybe vuntz can take a look at it, too, he certainly knows gtk :)
<doko> pitti: thanks, http://people.ubuntu.com/~doko/ 
<pitti> doko: can you put a debdiff there?
<doko> pitti: mvo already helps with gtk ...
<Keybuk> fabbione: what are you wittering on about depmod for in bug 30241 ?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 30241 in sysvinit "Sometimes fails to mount nfs directories" [Major,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/30241
<Keybuk> it has *nothing* to do with depmod
<pitti> doko: oops, why does your patch remove lots of stuff in po/Changelog?
<pitti> doko: in debian/control:
<pitti> -Replaces: libgnomecupsui1.0-1
<pitti> +ReplaceS: libgnomecupsui1.0-1
<pitti> :)
<doko> ?
<vuntz__> pitti, doko: mmmh?
<fabbione> Keybuk: so explain me why if i boot on a new install kernel it does not work. I reboot again it does not work. I run depmod -a and reboot and it works.
<pitti> doko: wow, that changelog looks impressive
<mvo> fabbione: the upgrade tools purges it btw
<pitti> doko: that debian/control change was certainly not deliberate
<fabbione> mvo: yes i am trying to understand why mdz did ask for a Conflict that was already there
<mvo> ah, o
<mvo> k
<Keybuk> fabbione: no idea, little voodoo pixies
<Keybuk> what doesn't work?
<fabbione> Keybuk: mount /home over nfs
<fabbione> exactly as reported in the bug
<Keybuk> that's just a race-condition, exactly as described in the bug
<fabbione> or for the matter.. anything over /nfs
<pitti> doko: oh, funny, I debdiffed it against 1.1ubuntu5, but I just noticed that I never uploaded that version
<Keybuk> network cards are brought up in the background, so may not be finished yet by the time the boot sequence gets to S45mountnfs.sh
<fabbione> Keybuk:  i can reproduce it regularly..
<Keybuk> when you install a kernel, depmod is run in the postinst
<pitti> doko: this version set custom PPD dir to /usr/share/ppd/custom
<pitti> doko: and also fixed 'ReplaceS' in debian/control.in
<fabbione> Keybuk: why do you think i did underline in the running kernel?
<pitti> doko: can you integrate my changes into yours? I'll send you a debdiff
<Keybuk> fabbione: that makes no difference
<fabbione> Keybuk: i don't know what diff it can make, but apparently it does
<Keybuk> then prove to me that running depmod against an installed kernel produces different output to running it in a running kernel
<Keybuk> (it doesn't)
<fabbione> Keybuk: ok, let's put it in another way..
<Keybuk> it's an easy thing to prove.  Install kernel, backup modules.dep, modules.alias, etc. boot into it, run depmod -a, compare
<fabbione> sorry for the noise
<fabbione> i was trying to give you more input
<fabbione> it's your bug anyway. fix it
<doko> pitti: sure.
<Keybuk> it's a difficult fix, sadly
<fabbione> well -server needs it
<doko> pitti: yeah, there are other changes ...
<Keybuk> sure, it will be fixed
<Keybuk> I'm not sure how to cope with the /usr-on-NFS problem though
<pitti> doko: http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/tmp/g-c-m.ppd-dir.diff
<pitti> doko: so you should name your version ubuntu5, too
<doko> pitti: hmm, yes, there was an -ubuntu5 version on p.u.c for some time. better name it ubuntu6
<pitti> ok, no big deal
<doko> pitti: the cups_dir part seems to be wrong, it will _only_ find the custom printers then
<pitti> doko: I think it's correct, it just uses the value for installing new PPDs
<pitti> doko: I just checked the code again
<pitti> doko: the retrieval of the PPD list is not done by g-c-m, it's done by libcups through libgnomecups
<pitti> doko: (CUPS-Get-PPDs IPP command)
<fabbione> who does load alsa/sound modules today?
<fabbione> who/what
<pitti> udev normally
<fabbione> ok
<fabbione> thanks
<pitti> apart from e. g. the snd-powermac
<pitti> this has to be in /etc/modules
<fabbione> ok thanks
<fabbione> pitti: do you know if we are using modprobe.d or modutils to add parameters to modules on load?
<fabbione> i am not in the mood to reboot to figure it out :)
<pitti> fabbione: I'm 90% sure that it's /etc/modprobe.d/*
<fabbione> ok thanks
* pitti looks at Keybuk to confirm
<Keybuk> modprobe.d
<Keybuk> see the bottom of /etc/modprobe.d/alsa-base
<Keybuk> pitti: do you have a powerbook handy?
<pitti> Keybuk: just an iBook
<Keybuk> pitti: can you "modinfo snd-powermac" for me?
<Keybuk> my powerbook is out of action until lunchtime when I can go get a CD lens cleaning kit for it
* pitti boots
<pitti> I usually have it on STR, but I did an espresso test install last night
<Keybuk> yeah, I did a test install which failed due to being unable to read the CD
<Keybuk> and now it won't read *any* CD
<pitti> Keybuk: I have the modinfo here, what do you need?
<Keybuk> just the alias list, if there is one
<pitti> Keybuk: there's none at all
<Keybuk> ok
<Keybuk> that's why it isn't loaded automatically then
<Keybuk> wondered whether it was like the bmac module, which does have an alias list, but still isn't loaded
<ivoks> pitti: ping
<pitti> hi ivoks
<pitti> thanks for the patch
<ivoks> np
<ivoks> i have an idea for samba too :)
<ivoks> for sharing printers over samba
<ivoks> maybe not dapper material, but could be for edgy
<Keybuk> fabbione: what was the bug you filed and rejected again? :)
<fabbione> Keybuk: the via module and the uart did change name in .15
<fabbione> via82cxx to via82xx
<fabbione> you should probably recheck that the ones mentioned in alsa-base still match on .15
<Keybuk> ahh
<Keybuk> the alsa-base file is generated by code in the alsa drivers :)
<Keybuk> so I always figure that one's right
<jdub> pitti, carlos: would you regard the launchpad translation stats for dapper as accurate in real terms (ie. would users agree with them)?
<pitti> jdub: unless they have an error in their counting algorithm, why should they be wrong?
<pitti> jdub: you mean that the missing ones are often translations which normal users don't see anyway?
<pitti> jdub: (like translated gcc error messages and that stuff)
<jdub> well, the stats take *everything* into account right? so might be skewed by lack of translations for random cli things compared to desktop things, stuff like that
<pitti> right
<carlos> jdub: yeah, the stats are for all main packages
<carlos> not just the desktop
<jdub> 'cos the top ten in the list seems really odd compared to gnome top ten, things like that
<jdub> (heh, never noticed that dapper's release date in launchpad is "when it's done")
<Coyctecm> what's the status of cnr warehouse thing in ubuntu?
<jdub> Coyctecm: "it was a random comment from kevin carmony - no real status"
<Coyctecm> jdub: ok, and I really hope nobody ever even think about that kind of stuff..
* pitti applies mysql security update to warty and counts the days until April 30
<jdub> pitti: 8)
<jdub> Coyctecm: run gnome-app-install - it's similar enough in concept :)
<Coyctecm> jdub: :P
<carlos> jdub: gcc and openoffice adds a bunch of strings
<carlos> jdub: also, you have there KDE
<jdub> carlos: mmm, so it's hard to use those stats to get a feeling for impact
<sivang> re all
<carlos> jdub: we could define a better way to get those stats like Kubunut, XUbuntu and Ubuntu ones taking into account just the ones we have inside the CDs
<carlos> and things like that
<jdub> carlos: not meaning to dump work on you though, just getting a feel for what it means myself :)
<jdub> carlos: but figuring stuff out like that would be pretty cool
<jdub> perhaps splitting the stats into seeds would be helpful
<carlos> jdub: I don't think I would do it before dapper release, but we could add it as a wishlist to implement when we have time...
<carlos> jdub: do we have such information already inside soyuz?
<jdub> yeah
<jdub> probably not
<jdub> well, maybe
<jdub> kamion's offline atm
<jdub> Kinnison: ping?
<jdub> i didn't think seed management was in soyuz yet, but maybe it knows about it through other means
<jdub> heh
<jdub> "Choose "Select languages..." to ensure that the languages you speak are included in all translation pages."
<jdub> s/speak/understand/ ? ;-)
<carlos> jdub: we would need that information in soyuz to be able to generate those stats
<carlos> jdub: well, Rosetta is to do translations ;-)
<carlos> you need more than just understand to do translations...
<jdub> speaking and reading are different though ;)
<carlos> but yes, perhaps 'speak' is not the best term
<jdub> man, that serbian team is rocking pretty hard
<jdub> 39 contributors
<jdub> and kicking the crap out of everyone else
<jdub> oh, the column sorting is client-side, hey?
<carlos> right
* jdub sorted the serbian team's status column 8)
<spacey> whats serbian?
<Treenaks> spacey: 'from Serbia'
<neutrinomass> Is the preferred place for temporary files in /var/tmp or in /tmp ?
<spacey> Treenaks: whats the dutch name for that?
<Treenaks> spacey: Servisch
<spacey> aaaah! Servisch
<spacey> home of molosofiets
<spacey> quite cool to see countries you don't really think about rock much harder then us lazy dutchies
<Treenaks> spacey: you know this is #ubuntu-devel?
<jdub> spacey: well, you know, it's much easier when you really have a language you can call your own
* jdub runs!
<dsas> isn't the national language of Australia English?
* dsas runs to the dentists
<Treenaks> dsas: As a precaution?
<dsas> just a check-up :-)
<thom> dsas: well, they speak something that sounds similar
<fabbione> hey thombot!
<doko> pitti: bug 21722 is this a permission problem?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 21722 in gnome-cups-manager "A4 paper size unalterable in printer setup" [Normal,Needs info]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/21722
<pitti> doko: whoa, g-c-m modifies /etc/pagesize???
<StevenK> Heh
<fabbione> EEEEK
<pitti> erm, papersize even
<fabbione> it's a configfile for libpaper
<pitti> fabbione: ... if run as root
<StevenK> pitti: Heh, I was about to correct you.
<fabbione> if g-c-m does that is really BAD BAD BAD
<StevenK> What should it do instead? Yet another dotfile?
<pitti> fabbione: well, it's not a conffile, so it's not as evil as it seems
<fabbione> it is a config file
<pitti> fabbione: but still, this should go into the cups config, not /etc
<fabbione> check libpaper sources
<pitti> yes, I know
<StevenK> fabbione: Not on breezy, anyway.
<fabbione> StevenK: it has always been
<fabbione> a conffile for libpaper i mean
<StevenK> dpkg -s should spit out conffiles, no?
<fabbione> StevenK: i can have a conf file that's generated by postinst
<StevenK> Oh, duh.
<pitti> fabbione: that's not a conffile then, just a configuration file
<StevenK> Correct.
<StevenK> Which means g-c-m can fiddle with it.
<pitti> i. e. it does not belong to the package (for dpkg's sake)
<fabbione> configuration -> conf...
<fabbione> comen on :)
<StevenK> fabbione: No, they are different.
<pitti> conffile is special :)
<_ion> Methinks there should be metapackages such as "ubuntu-desktop-printing", "ubuntu-desktop-pcmcia", "ubuntu-desktop-bluetooth" which would be installed by default, but a user _would_ have a chance to not have e.g. Bluetooth and PCMCIA related stuff installed while still having ubuntu-desktop.
<fabbione> pitti: well dpkg sake ... we can argue about ar sake :P
<fabbione> StevenK: no, really???
<StevenK> fabbione: I'm trying to help. If you snap back at me, I'll stop.
<StevenK> fabbione: I've had a crap day, so .....
<fabbione> StevenK: add a ;) to the above..
<StevenK> Ah
<fabbione> it wasn't meant to be offensive
<fabbione> sorry
<StevenK> It's fine, adding the smiley makes it unoffensive.
<StevenK> fabbione: Point is, if it's a conffile g-c-m can't touch it, and if it's a configuration file, g-c-m can touch it.
<fabbione> StevenK: yes i remember the rule.. i did mix conffile with configurationfile
<fabbione> they sound toooooo similar
<fabbione> it's all gtk fault
<dholbach> pffft
<StevenK> Heh.
<StevenK> Sure, blame the poor library.
<StevenK> ;-)
<Kamion> hey folks; how's beta2 testing going?
<StevenK> Kamion: .... testing ...?
<StevenK> Kamion: I'm sorry, what does that word mean? :-P
* sivang noted some people think they can say anything if they add a smiley to it ;-)
<thom> StevenK: it means you run lintian before you upload
* thom ducks
<StevenK> Hah
<ogra> Kamion, found one minor utf8 bug http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/edubuntu/live-install/Screenshot-Install.png
<Kamion> ogra: I noticed that too. Feel free to file it; nobody else has yet
<ogra> Kamion, and the guys in #edubuntu had probs with cancelling the install from the progress bar (install.py hangs) bugs are filed
<Kamion> I saw those bugs, yes, although the person who filed it neglected to tell me what version of anything he was using :P
<ogra> heh
<ogra> the current beta2 candidate of edubuntu
<Kamion> ok
<Kamion> not sure whether to hold for that or not
<ogra> he has also probs with the resolution 
<ogra> his laptop only detects 640x480 the app window is to big to reach the buttons in that mode
<doko> Diziet: font ping
<ogra> Kamion, they both test in vmware... might be a vmware bug... *real HW* tests are in progress
<pitti> Kamion: do you need a ppc ubiquity test?
* ogra is about to do one
* pitti starts one, too, can't hurt
<ogra> yep :)
<Coyctecm> why ubuntu's default gtk1.2 fonts are not configured to look clean? they are huge
<_ion> Nobody uses gtk1.2. :-)
<tseng> because ubuntu's "defaults" don't use gtk1.2 to the best of my knowledge
<tseng> maybe something in edubuntu
<Coyctecm> well i use gtk 1.2 :)
<Coyctecm> well xmms only
<ogra> tseng, ??
<tseng> ogra: dont you have some silly gtk1 apps?
<ogra> nope
<tseng> cool
<ogra> gtk1.2 should have died long ago :)
<pitti> unfortunately we can't demote it :(
<Coyctecm> that could be nice touch if they were probeply configured by default
<fabbione> pitti: what's left with it?
<ogra> pitti, at some point we'kk be able to
<ogra> *we'll
<Kamion> pitti: always
<pitti> fabbione: imlib, libdv, libiodbc2, smpeg, xmms
<Coyctecm> there are few apps that people use and they are gtk 1.2 based
<Kamion> ogra: the 640x480 thing is a known bug, we can't easily fit ubiquity into that screen size (in fact we decided not to try at the UI sprint) and I haven't much looked at trying yet
<Coyctecm> like xmms, mplayer-gui etc.
<ogra> Kamion, i dont think its a ubiquity bug anyway
<pitti> fabbione: xmms coudl be demoted, but kdegraphics is the only thing that requires us to keep the old imlib (another dup)
<ogra> Kamion, the laptop doe higher resolutions usually
<Coyctecm> nerolinux uses gtk 1.2
<fabbione> pitti: ok
<ogra> pitti, but that could be solved for eft
<fabbione> Coyctecm: -ENOCARE.. nerolinux is non-free
<Surak> what 640x480 thing? which video board is that? via unichrome did this in breezy, but it works now
<pitti> ogra: I truly hope so
<ogra> and mplayer-gui is in multiverse :)
<pitti> ogra: keeping them (imlib and gtk1.2) in dapper just hurts security-wise
<ogra> yes
<Coyctecm> fabbione: yes, i don't use it myself, but many many users use it
<ogra> and clutter wise :)
<fabbione> Coyctecm: demoting a library does not mean killing it
<jdub> pitti: how much do we care about kdegraphics?
<ogra> Coyctecm, but that doesnt mean it needs to be in the default install
<pitti> jdub: well, I don't :)
<Riddell> jdub: lots
<ogra> edubuntu neither 
<jdub> Riddell: what's in it?
<pitti> it's a central KDE component
<jdub> bummer
<jdub> imlib1
<jdub> that's pretty scary
<Coyctecm> ogra: no, but what i mean is that new users could better "picture" of ubuntu that way
<pitti> they should just port it to imlib2
<Riddell> pitti: actually it might not be
<Coyctecm> ogra: but well, gtk 1.2 indeed is waste of time nowadays :)
<pitti> Riddell: a central component, or using imlib1?
<Riddell> I think imlib is only used by some mostly obsolete part of kdegraphics
<Surak> is nmapfe still using gtk1.2 on ubuntu? just tested on fedora and the answer is yes...
<Riddell> let me see what happens if I compile it without
<ogra> Coyctecm, we dont want to make it disappear, we just want to demote it to universe 
* pitti feels hope arising in him
<pitti> go, Riddell, go!
<jdub> Riddell: yay!
<Coyctecm> ok :)
<pitti> getting rid of imlib would be worthwhile on its own
<ivoks> hi
<ivoks> pitti: i can confirm that share my printers work (with that Allow @LOCAL in cupsd.conf)
<pitti> ivoks: with Browsing off?
<ivoks> i didn't test that... 
<ivoks> just a sec
<ivoks> works with browsing off too :)
<ivoks> nice
* pitti shakes head
<ivoks> so, *sharing* scripts need rewrite
<pitti> ivoks: that's contrary to upstream's documentation and the comment ...
<pitti> but it makes much more sense
<ivoks> yeah, i tought browsing must be on too :/
<Surak> Guys, I think my contributions to Ubuntu are enough for become a Ubuntu member. However, I have no testimonial from actual Ubuntu members yet. Can someone which saw some of my work help me on that? My wikipage is https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlexandreOttoStrube  and I am registered in launchpad as https://launchpad.net/people/surak
<ogra> pitti, CUPS upstrem documentation ????
<ogra> HAHAHAHA
<pitti> ivoks: hm, there's a bug about it
<pitti> ogra: ?
<ogra> pitti, you never read ESR's rant about cups and theor docs ?
<ogra> *their
<pitti> ogra: no, I didn't
<ivoks> ok, at least we now know how it really works :)
<pitti> ogra: I know the docs a bit, though
<ivoks> pitti: one sec
<ivoks> this is how it works:
<ivoks> if browsing is off
<ogra> pitti, http://www.catb.org/esr/writings/cups-horror.html
<ivoks> clients can print on it (but can't see it on the list)
<ivoks> if browsing is on
<ivoks> clients can see and print on it
<pitti> ivoks: yes, sure
<ivoks> so, i guess we should enable browse for sharing
<pitti> ivoks: I meant, the documentation suggests that you need to enable Browsing for exporting your printers over the browse protocoll
<pitti> ivoks: well, I'll try that out myself when I can get my attention back to cups
* pitti currently fights with mysql, mozilla, and other security stuff
<ivoks> i'm here with 4 cupses and few printers :)
<pitti> ivoks: in the meantime, thanks a lot for your investigations and patches :)
<pitti> ivoks: if you find out anything, please note it in the bug reports, so that it doesn't get lost
<ivoks> pitti: do you prefere any special bug (allready opened) or want me to open a new one?
<pitti> ivoks: bug 41403 for example
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 41403 in cupsys "Network printers are visible even though Browsing is off" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/41403
<ivoks> ok :)
<pitti> or whatever
<pitti> I didn't look at this one at all so far
<pitti> I really need to catch up with security before continuing printer stuff, sorry
<ivoks> np
<ivoks> i'll try to help as much as i can
* pitti hugs ivoks 
<ivoks> stop guys :)
<ivoks> first dholbach, then pitti...
* ogra quickly hugs ivoks as well to surprise him
<ivoks> those dev guys... :)
<ogra> :)
<_ion> Hm. Looks like persian text is rendered uglier than before (with the Sans font alias).
<_ion> "Before" being something like 12 weeks ago.
<sivang> hmm, who can check if a apcakge went out or needs a kick out of NEW ?
<tseng> sivang: if it left NEW you got a mail that says ACCEPTED
<tseng> sivang: if you didnt, it didnt.
<sivang> tseng: okay, so I got the accepted email, I'll wait then until it's went out of NEW.
<tseng> sivang: if its accepted it is out
<sivang> tseng: but I can't install it or find it in the archive, can you? (pkg name: upbackup)
<tseng> sivang:  i didnt say it built or hit the archive
<tseng> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/upbackup
<tseng> https://launchpad.net/+builds/+build/187860
<tseng> the source package is in the mirrors
<StevenK> The binaries are in NEW
<StevenK> I suspect.
<tseng> there is only one binary, and presumably the source passed new
<pitti> Kamion: ppc ubiquity success
<tseng> but i guess i agree with StevenK 
<StevenK> The binary .deb's are in NEW
<StevenK> (I guess)
<StevenK> Kamion or infinity could tell you for certain.
<nomed> dholbach, around ?
<fabbione> how has a ppc here around to run one command for me?
<dholbach> nomed: about to go outside
<sivang> StevenK: okay, thank you gues.
* ogra raises hand
<sivang> guys
<nomed> i see there is a patch within icon-naming-utils
<ogra> fabbione, ?
<fabbione> ogra: what ppc do you have?
<ogra> ibook G4
<dholbach> nomed: what about it?
<zul> heylo
<nomed> do u think upstreamer could accept it ?
<fabbione> ogra: ati or nvidia card?
<ogra> ati
<ogra> (100% bugfree btw)
<nomed> dholbach, i'll need to send a patch to him to add xfce icons
<dholbach> nomed: I talked to them about it, they thought it wasn't necessary
<fabbione> ogra: can you please logout from X and tell me the output from xresprobe ati ?
<nomed> ok
<dholbach> nomed: there should be a bug report about it
<ogra> fabbione, it works from within X as well ...
<Amaranth> fabbione: I can too, if needed.
<dholbach> nomed: although it might have been a irc discussion as well
<fabbione> Amaranth: yes please
<dholbach> nomed: you can ask about it, if you like
<Amaranth> G4 Mac mini, Radeon 9250
<fabbione> ogra: please do it from outside
<Amaranth> ok, brb
<fabbione> Amaranth: yes that's fine
<nomed> dholbach, ok
<dholbach> nomed: thanks
<ogra> fabbione, then it will take a minute, i khave several open unfinished mails 
* dholbach -> dogwalk
<fabbione> ogra: ok thanks
<sivang> tseng: is there a reason why the binaries wouldn't get out of NEW ?
<sivang> tseng: do thay need speical manual approval ?
<StevenK> sivang: They do
<sivang> StevenK: ah, I see
<StevenK> (Just like source)
<sivang> StevenK: okay then, I just need to wait for it to come out of NEW again I guess, funny thing I already have a fix for the previous package....I hope it wouldn't take longer after the package has already went out one time from NEW for both bin and src.
<tseng> StevenK: ive never seen a source with a single binary go through new (source) and not new (bin)
<StevenK> tseng: Tell sivang, not me. :-)
<Amaranth> fabbione: http://rafb.net/paste/results/SMP54Q62.html
<fabbione> Amaranth: thanks
<Amaranth> funny, i'm running at 1152x864
<sivang> StevenK: should I ask in #launchpad maybe? ;-)
<tseng> why there
<sivang> tseng: possible buildd bug ? I don't know...
<sivang> tseng: or publishing one, rather.
<StevenK> They will be able you if unseen binary packages go into NEW, but not what's in there, I suspect.
<StevenK> Er, s/unseen/unknown/
<fabbione> woo
<fabbione> i was this >< close to add a regression in X
<thom> don't do that then
<fabbione> i am not going to :)
<Amaranth> fabbione: whew :)
<ogra> Mithrandir, id the liveCD supposed to have working hibernate ? 
<Mithrandir> ogra: no, and it won't for dapper.
<ogra> ok
<Mithrandir> ogra: it's on my list of stuff to add for eft, though
<ogra> Mithrandir, fine then i just have a user in #edubuntu trying it and wondering why it doent work :)
<ogra> i'll tell him to stop testing suspend/hibernate ;)
<Mithrandir> ogra: it should work if you pass resume=$partition, though.
<Mithrandir> but I haven't tried it and I suspect it won't work, but it's worth a try.
<ogra> Mithrandir, he's asking if he should file a bug (he cant come over here, chatting through a restricted cgiirc scrip t from work)
<Mithrandir> ogra: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/casper/+bug/23882
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 23882 in casper "Hibernate option should be suppressed on the live CD" [Wishlist,Unconfirmed]  
<ogra> thanks
<Mithrandir> so no need to file a bug.
<ogra> yep
<janimo> dholbach: hi
<janimo> talked about the gnumeric build hack with Gauvain
<janimo> it is the cleanest solution we could come up with
<Kamion> tseng: source and binary NEW happen at minimum an hour apart, so it's pretty common
<Kamion> sivang: relax, it's in NEW, I'll deal with it in a bit
<dholbach> janimo: cleanest solution involves building libgoffice-gtk-something-dev?
<janimo> dholbach: that will make the two libraries not installable in the same buildd
<janimo> which is our goal if we want to build from the same source package
<dholbach> arg arg arg arg arg arg
<janimo> this is why I specifically talked to gnumeric upstream
<janimo> and they guarrantee that -gtk and -gnome libs are going to be
<janimo> API/ABI compatible at any version
<dholbach> yeah
<janimo> so the sed hack takes advantage of that
<janimo> buold agains the -dev, because we _know_ it will be ok at runtime
<dholbach> i'd like to hear some views on that on the mailing list
<dholbach> is that ok for you?
<dholbach> i don't like either idea, but I want to hear some concerns before we do it
<janimo> I am thinking about this since december :) and talking to debian/gnumeric upstream just to make sure :)
<dholbach> (if there are any)
<dholbach> yeah
<dholbach> i definitely see your need for it
<janimo> dholbach: sure np with the getting other idea
<dholbach> that's out of question
<dholbach> Thank you.
<janimo> thank _you_ for taking care of this :)
<dholbach> I don't want to be a pain in the ass, I'd just like to hear more views from people being more apt than I am.
<janimo> after how much I talked about this with gnumeric/debian upstream you'll have to try hard before becoming a pita :)
<janimo> relative to them :)
<janimo> indeed I am curious if there's some cleaner trickery to do this thing
<dholbach> I'm sure we'll get relevant opinions on ubuntu-devel.
<dholbach> ... and get over with it.
<janimo> ok, so are you going to post?
<janimo> there's probably more madness on the same scale that will be for evince and gnome-system tools :)
<janimo> that's the price for getting no duplicates for these in main
<dholbach> janimo: no, you do that. :)
<dholbach> janimo: I'm not good at explaining other people's ideas.
<janimo> ok
* janimo revisits the patch
<janimo> hmm there's no patch to revisit
<janimo> dholbach: was there a LP bug on this, or did Gauvain point you to a diff?
<dholbach> janimo: not yet
<janimo> dholbach: just talking about the idea?
<dholbach> yep
<dholbach> Kinnison: could you tell me about your gpm plans? would it be ok, if I'd patch some icons in? (patch adding new files, modifying rules,control) or do you want me to wait until you uploaded the new stuff?
<janimo> dholbach: ah I remember now that you mention icons and patching
<janimo> we have a situation where an app uses an icon name which is only in the gnome icon theme but not in tango
<janimo> a screenshot panel plugin for xfce
<janimo> what is the best way to make sure it gets an icon at runtime?
<Kamion> Riddell: any test results for today's Kubuntu daily-live? (sorry if I missed them earlier)
<janimo> patch the source to look for a fallback? install the hardcoded icon along with it?
<Riddell> Kamion: yes, they're all good
<Kamion> great
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-devel:Kamion] : Ubuntu Development (not support, even with dapper) | #ubuntu for support and general discussion | #ubuntu-motu for getting involved in development | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperResources | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/HelpingWithBugs | If your initramfs is broken in any way, please save a copy for infinity | LP upgraded, report issues on #launchpad | Beta released | Please test Ubuntu/Kubuntu/Edubuntu/Xubuntu daily-live (beta2?)
<Kamion> topicdiff: beta2 candidates available for Xubuntu too
<Kamion> Riddell: hope my KDE frontend changes looked reasonable
<janimo> dholbach: is it polite to just reject bugs aginst breezy which are not dataloss/security?
<Kamion> I think the manual partitioner should be a good bit better now
<janimo> Kamion, thanks. just discovered on today's live that install or any other .desktop file is not runnable from the desktop
<dholbach> janimo: I think that's ok. If people complain say that we don't have the manpower or the changes are too intrusive
<pitti> janimo: if they are fixed in dapper, they should be 'Fix released' instead
<Kamion> janimo: oops. is a fix on its way?
<ogra> Kamion, apart from the reported bugs edubuntu should be good to go as well (didnt test the installer on ppc yet)
<janimo> so it would not be too good of a beta, unless we tell users to launch it from terminal
<janimo> Kamion, just discovered it so not yet I ;m afraid
<dholbach> janimo: as for the icon question, you might want to install an icon to hicolor (make sure you don't overlap with others)
<janimo> if it's ok I can delay till tomorrow?
<pitti> Kamion: does that mean you just released new images? or does that still refer to tonights/this morning's ones?
<Kamion> janimo: yeah, that's ok
<Kamion> pitti: still this morning's images
<janimo> pitti, ack, although this one looks like needinfo or invalid even for breezy. I'll reject it with a polite wording then
<Lure> Kamion: new Kubuntu live available? I can do another test run...
<pitti> janimo: sure
<Riddell> Lure: yeah, please do
<Riddell> Lure: rsync against yesterdays
<Lure> Riddell: will do
<Kamion> Lure: new from this morning
<Kamion> as in about ten hours ago
<Lure> Kamion: got it - need 1-1.5 hours to rsync...
<Kamion> stuff's looking OK though - the cancellation bugs reported on Edubuntu (which will apply to Ubuntu and Xubuntu as well) are not good, but I don't think they're a regression from breezy either
<Kamion> testing i386 and amd64 Ubuntu here
<ogra> they shouldnt block beta2
<Kamion> yeah, I agree
<pitti> Kamion: not sure whether you saw it, ppc was fine here (reiserfs install OOTB)
<Kamion> er, when I said regression from breezy I obviously meant regression from beta
<ogra> :)
<Kamion> pitti: great, thanks - I think I saw it
<pitti> my amd64 is compiling mozilla like mad, and that'll still take a while
<pitti> so I can't test amd64 right now
<janimo> dholbach, so putting the icon into hicolor is ok then? no icon them should put stuff there. I don't know how to avoid a name clash besides changing the icon name but that is the same as patching the sources
<dholbach> icon theme lookup is safer than hardcoding a path
<sivang> Kamion: k, thanks, sorry for the speculations, I just wanted to make sure everything's right with it.
<sivang> Kamion: after the first time it's out of NEW (both bin and src) it will be no hussle to have subsequent uploads without you needing to authorize them ?
<Kamion> sivang: correct
<Kamion> if we needed to approve every upload by hand we'd never get anything done
<sivang> Kamion: okay, sorry for the stupid question :)
<ogra> Kamion, we could hire a monkey for NEW then 
<mvo> Kamion: if you have a moment I would appreciate your opinion on #41297
<ogra> (they work for bananas and you can easily teach them to hit the big NEW button :) )
<Kamion> mvo: I've got it open in my browser already but haven't quite dealt with it yet :)
<mvo> Kamion: ok :) 
<infinity> ogra: As it turns out, processing NEW actually requires real people to check packages and make sure they're A) not a complete mess, and B) legally distributable.
<infinity> ogra: Most monkeys aren't terribly good at determining either.
<ogra> infinity, damned, youre right 
<ogra> :)
<Kamion> mvo: you can always set DEBIAN_FRONTEND=dialog in the environment if you like
<ogra> infinity, how's the health situation over there ? 
<infinity> ogra: Pretty crap, but I'm working out of guilt at this point.
<infinity> Quite the motivator.
<ogra> working out of guilt and being ill even longer is no good plan ...
<ogra> brb
<mvo> Kamion: sure, but if I do this, I would like to make sure that the internal terminal is expanded as soon as a debconf question is asked. so I need a way to detect it. I was wondering if I could do some magic for this
<Kamion> oh, hmm
<Kamion> watch for the ANSI codes that indicate dialog switching screen mode?
<mvo> thats a pretty nifty idea :)
<Kamion> would be cleaner to implement some kind of passthrough frontend
<Kamion> but then you'd need a second terminal to put debconf questions in
<ogra> fabbione, id: COLOR LCD
<ogra> res: 1024x768
<ogra> freq:
<Kamion> see /usr/share/doc/debconf-doc/passthrough.txt.gz if that approach sounds interesting - though it would probably be a fair bit of work
<ogra> disptype: lcd/lvds
<Kamion> using debconf again to display the dialogs would be complicated because you'd have to make it use separate databases to avoid locking pain
<mvo> Kamion: thanks, a great deal of work sounds bad. anything in espresso I could reuse? (I kow it has a new name, but I can't pronounce it)
<Kamion> and you'd be running into the less well-tested bits of debconf
<Kamion> mvo: not usefully, no
<mvo> *meh*
<Kamion> I suspect the horrible hack of watching for specific escape sequences on the terminal is actually easier
<Kamion> if you can do that
<mvo> a lot easier
* ogra finds it easier to pronounce it right than to write it right
<mvo> and its less horrible than the pre-depend that is mentioned in the bugreport ;)
<Kamion> hmm, German for ubiquity is Allgegenwart apparently - think I prefer the English version ;)
<fabbione> ogra: ok thanks
* mvo makes a note to report all espresso bugs against the "allgegenwart" package
<ogra> Kamion, but i know from the top of my hat how to write Allgegenwart :)
<ogra> er
<ogra> and from my head as well
<ogra> pronouncing ubiquity is easy after trying it once, but keeping in ming where all these q's and u's have to be placed isnt easy :)
<ogra> *mind
<dholbach> mvo: Allgegenwart sounds a bit too sacral for my taste :)
<ogra> yeah
* mvo can't help liking it
<mvo> allgegenwart/from today looks good btw, it seems to fix at least the keyboard issue I had earlier
* pitti hugs Riddell for dropping imlib
<Riddell> pitti: well, we'll see how many complains we get :)
<infinity> mvo: Can you record yourself pronouncing "ubiquity" (or failing to do so) for me? :)
<pitti> Riddell: what breaks without it?
<Riddell> pitti: it means kuickshow no longer gets compiled, but it's obsolete as far as I'm concerned
<bddebian> Morning peoples
<mdz> fabbione: I was asking because both my laptop and my desktop had both x11-common and xorg-common installed
<mdz> fabbione: ah, perhaps only the init script was there, and the init script didn't check whether the package was installed
<mdz> fabbione: this is starting to sound familiar, perhaps we discussed it before
<fabbione> mdz: i did a test here.. fresh breezy -> dapper and xorg-common is removed, but not purged
<mdz> fabbione: and its init script still runs
<infinity> And init scripts are conffiles, hence the percieved problem.
<fabbione> meeeehhh
<mdz> mvo's upgrade tool should work around this by purging it
* lamont notes that the livecd build logs have moved to http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/liveLogs/dapper/*
<fabbione> mdz: yes that does work...
<infinity> mvo's upgrade tool should really have a more generic "list everything I just removed, and now that the upgrade is done, purge it" thing or something, I suspect.
<fabbione> mdz: but more than conflicts, i am not sure what i can do
<fabbione> infinity: it does have it
<infinity> apt-get --purge dist-upgrade can be dangeours in rare corner cases, where you don't want the purge to happen before the new install, but it should be safe to purge as a last step.
<Kamion> infinity: would need to be strictly optional
<mdz> fabbione: well, 1) have the upgrade tool purge it (should be done), or 2) upload to breezy-updates fixing the init script
<infinity> Kamion: Probably.  Though we get more bugs from people not purging packages then from people breaking their system by purging stuff. :)
<Kamion> purge-by-default is pretty scary still
<jdub> pitti: only a few days to go :-)
<fabbione> mdz: the init script is not dangerous is it?
<pitti> jdub: mozilla/warty is building...
<infinity> Just verbose.  it doesn't actually DO anything particularly scary, AFAIK...
<mdz> fabbione: no, but it prints *two* spurious messages which clutter the much prettier boot in dapper
<fabbione> mdz: hmm ok
<mdz> so 1) is probably the best we will do
<ogra> cant we keep a transitional empty package of it to remove the initscript  ?
<infinity> mdz: Well, fixing the upgrade tool fixes it for people who upgrade "the right way", and I suspect others can just keep the slightly uglier boot, until we give them a "find unpurged packages and purge them" tool.
<fabbione> mdz: i can do a workaround on it in x11-common to check the md5 of that script and disable it if it is the same as in breezy
<pitti> infinity: after I finished mozilla, I'll attack tbird for stables; however, do you think I can grab you for doing the corresponding enigmail update?
<Keybuk> ogra: empty package would need a postinst that removed the init script
<pitti> infinity: (it won't happen today, proably next Tuesday)
<infinity> pitti: Sure thing.  I can do tbird itself too, if you're too busy.
<mdz> fabbione: I don't think it's worth the trouble
<ogra> Keybuk, yep, but if we dont need it at all, thats fine, no ?
<mdz> fabbione: better to fix the real bugs in X
<fabbione> mdz: also.. i couldn't reproduce the X issue you mentioned...
<pitti> infinity: I guess after your sick days you are horribly overloaded, too
<mdz> fabbione: X issue I mentioned?
<Kamion> infinity: (find unpurged packages> we call it dselect :P)
<infinity> pitti: Well, this is true. :)
<pitti> infinity: and I'd rather have you for php
<fabbione> mdz: the one about the complex md5sum calculation that was bailing on you
<fabbione> mdz: with cat $something missing
<infinity> Kamion: I've heard good things about this dselect thing, but people keep telling me it's obsolete, and I should use package tools that hide useful info from me at every turn. :)
<fabbione> mdz: i *think* that people that are experiencing it have been going trough a broken x11-common 
<infinity> fabbione: The one about /var/whatever/X11 versus /var/whatever/xfree or something, and crazy md5 madness?
<mvo> infinity:  (find unpurged packages> we call it synaptic :P)
<fabbione> mdz: because breezy -> dapper is ok
<mdz> fabbione: mizar:[~]  ls /var/lib/x11
<mdz> X.roster                Xwrapper.config.roster  xorg.conf.roster
<mdz> Xwrapper.config.md5sum  xorg.conf.md5sum
<fabbione> infinity: yeah exactly
<Keybuk> aptitude purge "~c"
<Keybuk> easy
<infinity> fabbione: I think I may have a handle on that.
<mdz> fabbione: note there is no X.md5sum
<fabbione> mdz: yes that is right.. but i can't get to that situation
<fabbione> mdz: so if i don't understand why .md5sum was missing
<fabbione> i have no way to fix it
<mdz> fabbione: does it matter?  if it is missing, it should be created based on the existing symlink
<fabbione> infinity: did you reproduce it?
<fabbione> mdz: i will need to recheck that part of the code.. but yeah it's doable that way assuming there is only one xserver installed
<fabbione> mdz: otherwise you are doomed :)
<mdz> fabbione: but it doesn't seem to fail the maintainer script, so unless you know otherwies it is cosmetic
<infinity> fabbione: No, I only noticed it in passing, but I have some fair ideas of how it could happen, and how to make it happy.
<fabbione> mdz: i did read that code quickly.. i was hoping to reproduce the problem and go down to a set -x
<mdz> fabbione: so if it is a corner case which doesn't affect upgrades from breezy, and is a cosmetic error, then the other bugs are more important
<infinity> mdz: BTW, the "missing GL headers" bug (if you recall that one) is a bug in breezy, only triggered on upgrade to dapper.
<fabbione> mdz: i will check it again
<infinity> mdz: Would it be appropriate to upload a new mesa to breezy-updates to fix that, and just pray that people will upgrade before the upgrade? :)
<mdz> infinity: we already instruct them to do so
<mdz> if there is no way to work around it in dapper, then yes
<infinity> mdz: (unversioned "Replaces", leading to a forward-replace during the upgrade, and the world explodes, cause those files just moved too many effin' times)
<infinity> So, version the replaces in breezy, and we're gold.
<mdz> sounds safe enough
* infinity nods.
<infinity> I'll pop up a fix later on.
<bddebian> *cough* ivtools *cough*
<fabbione> mdz: ok you got some ati love today...
<fabbione> mdz: i will look at the X.md5sum later today
<fabbione> i need a break now
<mdz> fabbione: forget about X.md5sum as above; there are 500 bugs on ubuntu-x-swat which are worse
<mdz> bugs which make X unusable for users
<fabbione> mdz: do you have a customized xorg.conf?
<mdz> mizar:[~]  cat /var/lib/x11/xorg.conf.md5sum
<mdz> 9102f2a981a8a0af1e6e33840804388d  /etc/X11/xorg.conf
<mdz> mizar:[~]  md5sum /etc/X11/xorg.conf
<mdz> 9102f2a981a8a0af1e6e33840804388d  /etc/X11/xorg.conf
<fabbione> mdz: not anymore.. down to 490 or so
<fabbione> mdz: than there is a regression there too. The error message was claiming a customized config when it's not
<fabbione> mdz: that means something is not happening there too
<fabbione> don't worry
<fabbione> we will get as much as possible sorted
* fabbione wishes to rewrite dexconf for edgy
<ogra> +++
<ogra> ++
<ogra> \o/
<mdz> what will happen is that we will face difficult decisions about making disruptive changes to fix those bugs, because we're already post-beta
<fabbione> mdz: 
<fabbione> the major issue is one
<fabbione> you don't want to ask for at least the resolution on livecd
<fabbione> without that question and no decent info from the system, we fail
<fabbione> 50%/50%
<fabbione> and there are other corner cases like this one where user A want foo and B != foo
<ogra> nope, we fall back to the least sucky resolution
<fabbione> ogra: no, we fail.
<ogra> its not completely failing
<mdz> for me, 100% of the systems which asked the question work fine with the default answer to the question
<mdz> every single one
<pitti> I get a sucky resolution, and I know two people who suffer the same
<pitti> and there's no apparent method to fix it
<fabbione> ogra: sucky resolution = fail for me
<ogra> for me none of my laptops work right apart from the ibook
<pitti> 1024 just looks awkward on a 1280 TFT
<mdz> pitti: what's the cause for autodetection failing in your case?
<ogra> fabbione, fail == no X for me
<pitti> mdz: it doesn't work through DVI, works if I use the VGA connector
<ogra> fabbione, my 1280x800 display is still usable at 1024x786, it just looks odd
<pitti> mdz: no idea about the cause at my friend's, I couldn't debug it so far
<fabbione> ogra: that is a failure
<fabbione> ogra: users complain about stuff like that
<fabbione> a lot
<pitti> the point is, defaulting to 1024 is fine as long as the user can switch to the right resolution in the gnome tool
<ogra> fabbione, yes, but not easily solveable 
<pitti> using the resolution chosen in gfxboot would also be nice
<ogra> yeah
<fabbione> that cannot be done easily either.. pitti
<pitti> but we discussed that already, it's not completely adequate
<Kamion> gfxboot gives you VESA modes, I'm not at all convinced it's appropriate
<pitti> fabbione: right, I know
<ogra> pitti, thats my suggestion since months
<ogra> Kamion, there are some widescreen modes ...
<mdz> fabbione: what makes it difficult?
<fabbione> Kamion: sometimes it is.. others is not
<pitti> I'd still prefer setting up more resolutions in xorg.conf, default to 1024 and let the user choose in System -> Settings -> Resolution
<Kamion> ogra: then your VESA BIOS is announcing them
<pitti> but fabbione told me that this gives regressions, too
<mdz> pitti: yes, I was thinking the same thing
<ogra> fabbione, when Kamion and i talked the last time about it we came to the conclusion to have a monitor db as fallback, like xfree 3.x did
<ogra> fabbione, Mithrandir also said we should test edid v2
<fabbione> mdz: when you have situation in which: Card: foo with monitor bar works best without HorizSync/VertRefresh, and Card: foo with monitor baz wants HorizSync...
<Kamion> ogra: don't assume I actually have any authoritative knowledge about X though
<ogra> so combining both might gain us the results
<ogra> Kamion, nor have i, but i've seen dexconf (still washing my eyes)
<fabbione> ogra: the monitor db is built using output from ddcprobe
<mdz> fabbione: what does "works best" mean there?
<fabbione> ogra: edid fails too on some hw.... no matter what version
<mdz> so long as the HorizSync/VertRefresh is big enough, why should it matter?
<fabbione> mdz: because you cannot set arbitrary HorizSync/VertRefresh
<ogra> fabbione, yep, i know i have 2 laptops here that just report edidfail 
<fabbione> mdz: it does matter in 2 cases: when the driver can't probe HorizSync/VertRefresh from the monitor
<mdz> fabbione: if it works fine without HorizSync/VertRefresh, that means that X is able to autodetect the correct values, yes?
<fabbione> mdz: and when the monitor returns wrong value
<fabbione> mdz: it depends from the monitor...
<fabbione> mdz: sometimes the monitors return crap
<fabbione> it's really complex
<mdz> fabbione: then presumably it would not work fine
<ogra> many cheap widescreens do that
<fabbione> and it doesn't... that's why you override them manually.... with "work best with/without"
<fabbione> so that you can tell the driver: hey driver, don't trust this crappy monitor.. do as i say
<fabbione> that means we can't just set whatever large enough value
<fabbione> or people will get bed refresh rates out of monitor syncs
<mdz> but where do we get the values in that case?
<fabbione> we calculate them statistically
<fabbione> according to the probed resolution
<fabbione> or the resolution that comes back from user input
<fabbione> and the calculation is accurate enough given that people complains that we are too "safe"
<mdz> I am saying that for the case where we are writing out sync ranges, we should write out sync ranges sufficient for a wider range of modes
<mdz> and  include more modes in the config
<mdz> so that the user can select them
<fabbione> mdz: you can't
<mdz> forget about the case where we are not writing the sync changes for a moment
<mdz> s/changes/ranges/
* Keybuk wonders if a powerbook works with most of its innards hanging out
<mdz> fabbione: this seems very much like what Windows does, and it seems to work there
<fabbione> mdz: we need to write syncs in cases where we know that the combination driver/monitor is broken
<fabbione> to set a upper limit
<fabbione> otherwise we go out of sync
<pitti> hi zyga 
<mdz> even at 1024x768?
<fabbione> mdz: windows has better drivers
<fabbione> yes even at 1024x768
<zyga> hey guys :)
<zyga> I finally work from 8-16 :)
<fabbione> i can give you use case for 800x600
<zyga> pitti: how are you?
<fabbione> mdz: windows has a huge monitor db to match against.. we don't
<fabbione> it's really impossible to compare the two
<jdub> o/` we built this kitty on rock and roll! o/`
<mdz> fabbione: we cannot reasonably expect to autodetect everything, but we should be able to provide a safe fallback *and* allow the user to choose after installation
<pitti> zyga: quite fine, and you?
<mdz> without a monitor db
<ogra> mdz, that will need a gui then
<ogra> or do you really want to bother users with dpkg-reconfigure ?
<Lure> Kamion, Riddell: Kubuntu ubiquity results for today in bug 41683
<mdz> ogra: we didn't have a gui for the mode question ever before
<infinity> mdz: The problem with writing high sync ranges is that X calculates the refresh rate based on resolution and total bandwidth, so if your monitor can only do 1024x768@60, and the sync range is too high, it'll head up to 1024x768@75 on boot, and you get no display.
<mdz> infinity: yes, I understand now
<ogra> mdz, but it was asked automatically
<infinity> mdz: So, the only "safe" way to write a sync range is to write one low enough that it forces you to use 1024x768@60.
<mdz> we'd have to write different modelines
<fabbione> EEEEEKKKKKKKK
<zyga> pitti: good, new big monitor to play with :)
<fabbione> mdz: we have been carrying around this problem since warty
<mdz> actually...aren't there default modes named like that?
<mdz> 1024x768@60?
<fabbione> it didn't change since than
<mdz> why can't we write out a larger list of modes and make low-refresh-rate modes the default?
<fabbione> the problem only become more complex with the increasing amount of users
<fabbione> mdz: that won't work at the first time you upgrade because modes need to be sorted
<simira> what's claire's nick again?
<fabbione> some users wants the best resolution at the first shot
<fabbione> simira: cvd
<infinity> fabbione: Those users can cope.  This is exactly how Windows does it.
<simira> thanks fabbione 
<mdz> infinity++
<fabbione> infinity: ok, than we can close about 489 bugs in X
<ogra> mdz, it might roast your monitor since you can select the possibly broken modes from the resolution selector in the desktop
<fabbione> we force a default config for 640x480 and we are done
<infinity> It starts out at 640x480, then at the end of the install, asks if you'd like it to attempt to make it "nicer", which leads to a whopping 800x600 (or maybe 1024x768 in XP, don't recall), then leaves it there until you mnaually change it to something better still.
<mdz> ogra: that is the user's own fault
<mdz> where we can protect them, we do
<pitti> ogra: well, are there really monitors which immediately break then?
<ogra> mdz, if we offer the modes there ?
<mdz> ogra: yes
<Keybuk> ogra: bah, any decent monitor (ie. ones capable of *doing* high modes/refresh rates) also have anti-roast stuff
<mdz> Keybuk: agreed
<Keybuk> it's more a "black screen" problem
<infinity> ogra: I haven't seen a monitor explode on out-of-sync since 1985.  Seriously.
<pitti> ogra: I used wrong resolutiosn starting from my ancient 15 years old CRT up to my shiny TFT without any damage
<Keybuk> and they can solve that themselves
<ogra> pitti, probably only pretty old ones, no idea how many would break nowadays
<pitti> the old CRT made funny noises, but it coped well, at least for some seconds
<mdz> ogra: I think it's a non-problem
<infinity> ogra: I have an old SVGA 14 inch monitor from 1989 (don't ask) that just emits a high-pitched whine and SOUNDS like it'll blow up when out of sync, but has never actually done so.
<ogra> ok
<pitti> ogra: if they are that old, then the user will be grateful to have an excuse to buy a shiny new TFT
<ogra> was just a thought :)
<fabbione> ok
<pitti> a good CRT will cope with that :)
<fabbione> since it's so simple...
<fabbione> you are welcome to fix it that way with your name on it
<mdz> I'd be surprised if they couldn't fry their monitor in the same way by selecting the wrong mode in windows
<mdz> fabbione: you are the one saying this is a big problem
<infinity> fabbione: I played with the resolution munging in dexconf during the breezy release, so I don't mind having a poke at it this cycle too.
<fabbione> mdz: you are asking me what is the biggest problem and i did picture one example.
<ogra> mdz, the thing is that they wont have wrong modes in windows i guess
<fabbione> mdz: the outcoming solution is to set everything to a sane default and let the user decide
<infinity> The biggest win in doing it this way is a fully-populated RandR list in GNOME, so people can pick whatever they want, not what we (poorly) detected they could do.
<fabbione> if that was this simple we would have done it for warty
<jcole> what's the ubuntu server meta package name? is there one?
<mdz> fabbione: I didn't ask, but I appreciate your offering an example anyway :-)
<fabbione> <mdz> fabbione: what makes it difficult?
<infinity> ogra: Windows lets you pick any mode that your video card claims to be able to do.  They gave up on "PnP monitors" long ago, despite being instrumental in writing the spec, because so many of them are broken.
<fabbione> and i did explain what makes difficult to fix xorg
* fabbione is not allucinating .. YET
<ogra> infinity, ah, k, i'm really not up to date on windows :)
<mdz> fabbione: you said the major issue was that we don't ask the question anymore
<infinity> jcole: There isn't one, since ubuntu-server doesn't install any "default" stuff.
<mdz> fabbione: (which has been true for months)
<infinity> jcole: It's just a base install, a package manager, and your imagination to make it what you want.
<fabbione> mdz: yes because from that answer we can (in chain) calculate all the other stuff we need... including ranges
<Kamion> Lure: OK, I think that's due to the known bug that sometimes manual partitioning doesn't get written into partman right the first time round; I suspect that if you said no to the partman confirmation dialog and then tried again, it'd work fine
<seb128> doko: when you change a package like gnome-cups-manager could you comment what you change from the changelog (cf any GNOME package upload)?
<mdz> fabbione: I am suggesting a way that we can accomplish the same thing, but without asking a question during BOOT
<ogra> why dont we just add a debconf mode to usplash and ask the question again ?
<fabbione> mdz: and yes.. i know it has been true for months.. like it has been true for a release that X sucks
<Kamion> Lure: I've seen the bug a number of times myself, but I've not quite managed to track it down yet; it's fairly high on my list though
<Kamion> however, this isn't a regression from beta 1, which is good
<ogra> the shutdown stuff mdz did seems to work very well, i dont see why the same shouldnt work at boot as well
<fabbione> mdz: you are asking to skip a question and set some defaults to allow users to change afterwards..
<mdz> fabbione: there are hundreds of bugs in Malone right now from users where X completely fails to start up; I refuse to believe that this is a bigger problem
<fabbione> mdz: while we do still set a default, we can't easily make it "changable" afterwards
<infinity> ogra: Are you being serious?  Kill usplash, run debconf, re-start usplash?.. That seems less than ideal. :)
<jcole> infinity: is it just a server kernel without pkgsel/install-pattern=~t^ubuntu-standard$|~t^ubuntu-desktop$ ?
<mdz> ogra: and it was Keybuk who did those changes, btw
<ogra> infinity, run dewbconf *in* usplash ... like the "press enter" message mdz added
<ogra> oh
<fabbione> mdz: most of them are related to broken configs... go figure...
<Kamion> ogra: mdz's change had no actual extra UI
<ogra> s/mdz/Keybuk then
<infinity> ogra: That wasn't an addition at all, dude.
<fabbione> or broken upstream drivers.. for which we can't do much about
<Keybuk> ogra: usplash still gets killed by init, we just restart it again :)
<ogra> ah, k
<infinity> ogra: That's just taking advantage of the fact that usplash doesn't trap the keyboard, so if you press [enter] , it passes through the the underlying process.
<mdz> casper had been trying to display its message through usplash for ages, but failing because it was dead
<Kamion> I mean, I'm sure it would be *possible* to write a debconf frontend that draws on usplash, but it's a huge boatload of work for one question
<Keybuk> Kamion: plain text | pipe usplash_write? :p
<infinity> Yeah, actually, it wouldn't be too hard.
<infinity> But that doesn't make it right.
<Kamion> not sure the debconf text frontend is, uh, entirely optimal for this
<ogra> you have to display a list, i think thats the only real prob here
<infinity> The text frontend is hard to parse, but wouldn't be a difficult starting point.
<Kamion> ogra: I await your patch
<infinity> But you'd be limited to question types that involve simple answers.
<mdz> debconf at boot is madness
<Kamion> mdz: agreed
<infinity> Doing lists would be seriously difficult.
<ogra> mdz, but thats what we did until now :)
* fabbione suggests kudzu
<mdz> ogra: no, we did it in the installer
* fabbione run away VERY fast
<mdz> not during a standard system boot
<Kamion> jcole: see /preseed/ubuntu-server.seed on ubuntu-server CD images
<ogra> an easy fix would be having another menu in gfxboot and preseed the res. even if you had to boot a second time after noticing its wrong
<Mez> hola all ;)
<Kamion> Lure: (thanks for the retest though, it's appreciated)
<ogra> the only prob is that dexconf doent accept *any* preseeding for resolutions
<jcole> Kamion: right, thanks :)
<Kamion> there's no more room on the screen in gfxboot for additional menus
<Kamion> the horizontal space at the bottom is full, and already overflows in some languages
<infinity> Kamion: Oh, speaking of the res selector in gfxboot, can we do away with that turning into vga= options in the installed system (and breaking suspend/resume for users who have no idea why)?
<Kamion> wrapping that menu bar onto another line is seriously non-trivial theme hacking
<infinity> Kamion: Or has that already happened when I wasn't looking?
<ogra> Kamion, nothing seems trivial with the current problem ...
* fabbione goes away for a while
<Kamion> ogra: then maybe saying "an easy fix" isn't the best idea
<fabbione> cya all at the meeting later
<ogra> i guess we'll need to find the least sucky solution
<Kamion> infinity: are we certain that no systems anywhere require vga= to display a console any more?
<Kamion> because that's basically why it's propagated
<infinity> Kamion: Not certain, no, but we /are/ certain that it's breaking other things due to being too easily discoverable. :/
<janimo> Kamion, ok found the xubuntu live bug, will upload the fix in a few minutes
<infinity> In the old days, no one would boot the installer with "vga=foo" unless they knew what they were doing, now it's a simple navigation to go "ooo, more resolution is better!" and they've just broken suspend.
<janimo> shared-mime-info package was missing as a thunar dep, and we were saved so far by the extra gnome stuff on the CD which brought it in :)
<dholbach> fabbione: I got kudzu removed from the archive in Hoary or something :-p
<ogra> dholbach, i dont think he was even remotely serious :)
<dholbach> I noticed. :-p
<Mez> woah, people have vbeen spamming my blog like mad
<Kamion> infinity: ok, fixed in debian-installer-utils 1.22ubuntu8 (won't take effect until the next debian-installer build)
<pitti> carlos: hm, I don't see a significant increase in the number of domains today
<pitti> carlos: if that requires more time, can we just use yesterday's langpacks? they are tested and built
<infinity> Kamion: Thanks, dude.
<infinity> Kamion: I'm trying to figure out if I still have time to hack isolinux to fix the default boot res, but I may be running out of time there..
<janimo> fabbione: is there a way of making the R300 cards which die on resume with DRI not use it by default (short of taking their pci ids out of the kernel)?
<Lure> Kamion: I went now through manual partitioning again, no changes (partitions are there from previous run) selected what I want and got confirmation w/o any mention of partition - if I confirm, it should be fine, no?
<carlos> pitti: you used yesterday's tarball, if you see yesterdays' one, you had exactly the same values...
<carlos> I think we had a race condition again...
<Kamion> infinity: it's still on my list too
* infinity notes also that he found some lovely refernce to feault VGA modes that should allow for a few more tweaks to vga16fb to get it working on a few more systems where it was still a bit broken.
<Kamion> Lure: the confirmation screen should display the partitions to be formatted
<pitti> carlos: hm, I already moved the cronjob back by half an hour...
<infinity> s/feault/default/
<carlos> pitti: let me see the time it finished...
<pitti> carlos: shall I refetch the tarball?
<Lure> Kamion: will try it then... ;-)
<Kamion> Lure: if it doesn't, then either you forgot to check the reformat box on the mount point screen, or you need to say no and then press next on the mount point screen again
<carlos> pitti: perhaps the new domains did it slower
<Kamion> (to work around the aforementioned bug)
<Lure> Kamion: reformat is shaded in KDE frontend
<Kamion> disabled?
<Kamion> that's supposed to happen when there's no filesystem there so it *has* to reformat
<mdz> infinity: it seems to me that we should be able to add some modes to extramodes so that we can differentiate between the different refresh rates by name, and use those to order the modes in the config
<Kamion> anyway, I do know that particular bit of the KDE frontend is still buggy - I fixed it up a fair bit last night, but I think it basically never worked right
<carlos> pitti: today, the export has 762 translation domains, and it finished at 15:12 DC time
<infinity> mdz: I suspect you may be right.  If you need/want someone to bounce some of this off of, care to attack me post-meeting?  (it's 2am right now, and I'm pondering another nap before the meeting)
<Lure> Kamion: actually they were not disbaled this time - I have seen this now... BTW, copying is in progres and fdisk -l still looks good
<carlos> pitti: http://mawson.ubuntu.com/~carlos/rosetta-dapper-2006-04-27.log
<pitti> carlos: ok, I fetched it at 1500
<mdz> infinity: right
<pitti> carlos: any possibility to run your jobs earlier?
* Lure has to run now, will report back later...
<carlos> pitti: no, that's not possible until we move to use production database directly
<pitti> carlos: ok
<carlos> the mirror we use finish 30 minutes before my script runs
<pitti> carlos: I move my cronjob back another 30 mins
<carlos> pitti: anyway the move to production should happen between this week and next week
<carlos> and we would agree a better time
<pitti> carlos: ok, I re-run the process manually now
<carlos> pitti: would you do a manual run now?
<carlos> ok, thanks
* pitti takes a break while it runs
<mdke> mako, it was about wiki:Listiquette, I wondered if you would take a look and see what you think about adding it to ML subscription emails, or posting now and again with reminders about it. If you agree, maybe we could transfer it to the website rather than the wiki
<infinity> mdz: I have half a mind (I'll find the other half when I stop being sick, I suppose) to do a total rewrite of dexconf for sid/etch, so we can merge it nearly for free when we open edgy...
<infinity> mdz: Anyhow, off to nap, poke me post-meeting if you want to discuss this stuff further.
<mdz> infinity: night
<bddebian> Ack, meeting..  What meeting?
<Keybuk> bddebian: weekly canonical distro team meeting
<bddebian> Ah, whew, I keep missing CC and MOTU meetings :-(
<fabbione> janimo: not that i know off.
<Diziet> Dammit, I primed this ccache yesterday.  Why is it taking all afternoon ?
* Keybuk has yet to decipher ccache
<mdz> pitti: the eject button stuff seems to work fine with my external DVD drive, but not the internal one on my laptop
<mdz> pitti: g-v-m receives the notification, but doesn't unmount or eject
<pitti> mdz: even with ubuntu6?
<mdz> pitti: hmm, is ubuntu6 not in the archive yet?
<mdz> I have ubuntu5 but i am up to date
<pitti> mdz: I uploaded it maybe 1 hour ago, I doubt it
<pitti> mdz: right, ubuntu6 fixed it
<Kamion> mdz: beta2 is pre-published for mirrors, I'll do the release and announcement and stuff later tonight
<mdz> pitti: ah, ok. I thought the upload was earlier
<mdz> Kamion: excellent
* Kamion -> !work
<ogra> Kamion, do you include derivatives in it ? 
<Kamion> ogra: Kubuntu and Edubuntu, yes; Xubuntu isn't ready
<ogra> thanks 
<ogra> (i'm not after writing another announcement, every two weeks is enough) :)
<janimo> Kamion: xubuntu is readier now, after thunar builds the icon launcher thing should be solved
<janimo> I uploaded about 30 minutes ago
<janimo> but I'll wait for tomorrow to be sure
<pitti> carlos: wow, take a look at the new report; that's impressive
<pitti> janimo, carlos: it seems that many xfce translations are missing in Rosetta; is that due to not having rebuilt the packages since the main promition, or due to not yet having them manually imported into Rosetta?
<janimo> pitti, they are not in rosetta
<carlos> pitti: :-P
<carlos> pitti: some of them are imported already
<janimo> I was under the impression they are not suppoed to be there if upstream does not want
<carlos> pitti: there are others that lack a .pot files
<pitti> janimo: can you please look at http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/langpacks/rosetta-buildd-diff-report.txt
<janimo> but that was awhile ago when they were not in main
<janimo> requirements probably changed
<carlos> janimo: anything that is in main, should be imported into Rosetta
<pitti> janimo: in particular in the last section, which shows the domains I have in my buildd tarballs, but not in the rosetta tarball
<pitti> janimo: so if these pacakges are still unstripped, and there are no pkgstriptranslation tarballs for them yet, they need a rebuild
<janimo> carlos: ok, It was a while ago I asked on the rosetta list and was told that needs upstreams consent. although it makes sense to ignore upstrream if we wanrt a translated ubuntu :)
<carlos> janimo: that's only true for products, not for Ubuntu
<pitti> janimo: maybe you can look what's still in /usr/share/locales, and rebuild the packages which still have mo files there?
<janimo> pitti, ok. will look at them as soon as beta2 is done ok?
<janimo> tomorrow probably
<pitti> janimo: yes, sure, it's not particularly urgent; it should just be cleaned up for final
<janimo> definitely
<pitti> great
<pitti> carlos: ok, I build new langpacks now
<carlos> janimo: please, be sure that the build generates the .pot files
<janimo> carlos: ok I'll look at it. probably wil come to ask you guys for details
<pitti> janimo: 'use the force, Luke' - or rather, cdbs rules :)
<janimo> ;)
<janimo> wait, is that in the langpack.mk?
<janimo> if so that's included in xfce,mk for a while
<KaiL> pitti, do I understand the lastest fix in gnome-volume-manager right, if this allows now to eject the disc with the drives hardware button?
<Mez> pitti: cdbs rules? depends on what POV you look at it from
<pitti> KaiL: yes
<KaiL> cool :)
<pitti> KaiL: it has always been supposed to work that way
<janimo> yeah, I remember uploading a few weeks ago with changelog along the line: generate pot file
<pitti> KaiL: it just broke due to a subtle bug I fixed
<KaiL> but never did? ;)
<_ion> mez: Yeah, from the left it looks like it rules, but from the right it looks like it's awesome.
<Mez> _ion - it's useful I'll give it that - but IMO too many people rely too heavily on cdbs and it makes their packaging awful
<pitti> Mez: I meant it as a noun there, but the verb is equally true :)
<Mez> pitti: ah :P
<pitti> . o O { oh no, not *that* flamewar again }
<_ion> :-D
<Mez> pitti: lol - I don't see it as a flamewar ... It's just a difference of opinioin
<pitti> Mez: indeed; cdbs was incredibly helpful for all this translation stuff; I know that some packages do braindead stuff with it, though
<pitti> like automatically generating debian/control *shudder*
<Mez> pitti: that and the fact that it sometimes decides to go off on a tangent and do things that you dont want it to do all of it's own accord
<pitti> heh :) yes, it's as powerful in helping you as with helping you shoot yourself in the foot
<_ion> Does someone actually make it generate d/control automatically? Eww.
<Mez> exactly, which is why I prefer debhelper.
<_ion> cdbs _uses_ debhelper. :-)
<Mez> ok, I may use it myself occasionally ... but meh
<pitti> _ion: yes, that's what I meant with 'some packages abuse it'
<LaserJock> on debian-mentors there was someone using debian/rules to generate debian/changelog
<LaserJock> that is a bit too much automation, I think ;-)
<_ion> Next up: using debian/rules to generate debian/rules
<azeem> I think I saw debian/patches patching debian/rules
<_ion> Hehe.
<pitti> janimo: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/12979 <- list of packages without a POT file; it could be useful for you to decide which xfce packages need a rebuild with our new cdbs (or need to be fixed to use langpacks.mk)
<LaserJock> azeem: that seems scary
<Lure> Kamion: Kubuntu beta2 ubuquity install completed (reboot still does not work) - good work and I really LOVE it!
<pitti> Keybuk: ok, I need to do an n-m upload anyway to add POT file building. I'll just remove the 'don't call wpasupplicant for unencrypted networks' patch then. or did you happen to know a differnet solution from any discussion I didn't see?
<Keybuk> LaserJock: do you know who that was?
<Keybuk> LaserJock: and where they live?
<LaserJock> Keybuk: what? the automatic changelog thing?
<Keybuk> pitti: could you just send me the patch for the POT stuff -- I have an upload half-prepared here
<Keybuk> LaserJock: yes
<Keybuk> LaserJock: because then I'll pay them a visit
<pitti> Keybuk: oh, sure; will you care about removing the patch yourself?
<Keybuk> and cut them into little pieces
<Keybuk> and feed them to my dog
<Keybuk> just to make sure they DO NOT DO IT AGAIN
<waylandbill> Lets say a user decides to choose "root" as the initial user thinking it would make them the super user. The system lets them with a UID of 1000. That's only mildly confusing.
<Keybuk> pitti: yup, already done
<LaserJock> Keybuk: it was on the debian-mentors ML, and it was because upstream "decided" they wanted to do the debian packaging
<pitti> Keybuk: erm, *cough*, langpack changelogs are generated automatically (not from debian/rules, though)
<Keybuk> pitti: not from debian/rules is fine :)
<pitti> *phew*
* Keybuk points out that dpkg-buildpackage reads debian/changelog before running debian/rules
<pitti> Keybuk: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/12984 is that enough for you or do you want a mail?
<pitti> (it's a trivial patch anyway)
<mdz> Keybuk: they could always include a custom changelog format parser which would regenerate it...*duck*
<mdz> waylandbill: it does?  I'd expect adduser to refuse to create duplicate users
<mdz> waylandbill: mizar:[~]  sudo adduser root
<mdz> adduser: The user `root' already exists.
<ogra> what gets intresting is to call the initial user admin
<mdz> Lure: what goes wrong with the reboot?
<ogra> i wonder if that has any hidden sideeffects
<highvoltage> ogra: because it creates a group called admin too?
<waylandbill> the installation program uses adduser to add the initial user does it?
<ogra> highvoltage, yes and the admin group already exists
<highvoltage> yeah. i'm going to change our docs to suggest the first user being called sysadmin instead of admin because of that.
<Lure> mdz: it does not reboot - you have to do it manually - I have published syslog in bug 41683
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 41683 in ubiquity "manual partitioning problems" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/41683
<waylandbill> cause I was chatting to someone who was root, but had a UID of 1000.
<highvoltage> waylandbill: perhaps they just edited their /etc/passwd file
<mdz> Lure: failure to reboot doesn't sound like a partitioning problem
<waylandbill> and they were wondering why they were getting permissions denied all the time. :-D
<waylandbill> highvoltage, that's what I'm thinking now.
<highvoltage> waylandbill: you can rename your root user to unclebob, then add a new user called root
<Lure> mdz: true, I just logged the whole process there as there are still some minor issues. Should I open separate bug for reboot issue?
<waylandbill> I just assumed they installed that way, but it's more likely you're scenario is correct as they'd not likely tell me how they managed that.. 
<mdz> Lure: yes, but only if there isn't one open already
<mdz> waylandbill: yes, it does use adduser
<Lure> mdz: will check and do
<highvoltage> waylandbill: that so sounds like some kiddie just trying to be clever on an irc channel :)
<ogra> highvoltage, i dont know if its a problem or not ... theoretically it shouldnt be a problem to call the admin user admin
<waylandbill> highvoltage, that's possible.
<ogra> but it might have surprising side effects, you never know
<highvoltage> ogra: we've had some strange, unique situations before, where i suspected that the admin user/group might have something to do now, i'm racking my brain to think what happened in those instances, but i just can't remember
* highvoltage 's brain is gone today
<ogra> highvoltage, thats fine, on a public holiday you are allowed to leave your brain in the closet
<ogra> ;)
<highvoltage> hehe
<highvoltage> i would've yelled something like, "are you calling my brain gay!?", but i'll behave myself on ubuntu-devel instead.
<ogra> are gays supposed to be in closets on public holidays ? 
* ogra didnt know about such habits in .za ...
<highvoltage> heh, i don't know.
<waylandbill> lol
<ogra> hey you are nominated for the edubuntu council 
<ogra> nice :)
<highvoltage> cool :)
* highvoltage sees bluekaja's male
<janimo> pitti, great only the xfce apps I expected not to have pot file yet, as I did not convert them to xfce,mk
<janimo> they have been in universe till a few days ago
<janimo> will fix them after beta2
<Keybuk> pitti: yup, that's fine
<pitti> Keybuk: too late, I just mailed you :) thanks, though
<Keybuk> hehe
<janimo> was there a liveCD not rebooting issue with beta1? like waiting fro keypress but not rebooting?
<Keybuk> just grabbing a bite to eat :P
<janimo> to make sure it was not just xubuntu live
<janimo> mdke: hi, are you in charge of ubugtu?
<mdz> pitti: confirmed, ubuntu6 fixes it here. thanks!
<pitti> cheers :)
<mdke> janimo, no, Seveas 
<janimo> mdke: ok thanks
<janimo> Seveas: if you control ubugtu can you put it on #xubuntu
<janimo> thanks
<pitti> carlos, Riddell: http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/langpacks/ has new langpacks; can you please test them?
<pitti> Riddell: I'm especially interested in the KDE ones; first ones EVAR with Rosetta love :)
<zyga> pitti: yeah!!! :)
<carlos> pitti: ok, downloading it
<Riddell> just what is the en_DK locale?
<zyga> Riddell: just guessing, denmark?
<mdke> dk is denmark, never heard of that locale though
<pitti> Riddell: special gift for Fabio
<pitti> :)
<Riddell> I'd have thougt he would work in it_DK :)
<Riddell> pitti: kde-fr translations are looking good
<Riddell> seems to have lost k3b but that'll need me to fix it for utf-8 first then carlos can import it
<carlos> Riddell: cool
<Diziet> *phew*  That 1.5.0.2 seems to work just nicely.
<carlos> pitti: I thought your scripts take the .po from buildd if rosetta lacks it
<Diziet> Now we just have to wait for my DSL.  I wonder if I'll be uploading 0ubuntu2 before the .orig.tar.gz has arrived ?
<janimo> dholbach: seems noone is answering the gnumeric mail :)
<janimo> either it's obviously right, or obviously so wrong it cannot be considered :)
<pitti> carlos: they do
<pitti> carlos, Riddell: maybe they give errors when msgfmt'ed?
<Riddell> pitti: maybe what does?
<_ion> http://www.audacity.com/
<janimo> nomed, colossus said in the mornig uploading to sf.net 'now'
<janimo> I guess post beta2
<jordi> dholbach: dude
<dholbach> jordi: quoi?
<dholbach> janimo: will have a look in a bit
<janimo> dholbach: thanks. But as you said, other should have a look :)
<janimo> too
<jordi> dholbach: er, sorry. I thought alacarte was fsckd in Catalan, but I just didn't uplad the translation.
<Amaranth> :(
<dholbach> jordi: you might want to talk to Amaranth about that :)
<Amaranth> Well, glad I didn't do it. :)
<Amaranth> jordi: You're going to have to teach the folks going to GUADEC how to order a beer. :)
<jordi> Amaranth: ?
<jordi> Amaranth: "posa'm una birra!"
<jordi> :)
<Amaranth> jordi: :)
<jordi> but, depends on the size of course.
<jordi> 1/3 of a litre is a "mitjana". BUT, if you go a bit to the South, it'll be a "tercio". :)
<jordi> and it madrid it has another name iirc
<Amaranth> confusing
<jordi> heh
<jordi> coffee names are confusing
<jpatrick> no ell que sap?
<jordi> coffee with ice is "caf del temps" here
<jpatrick> s/no/i
<jordi> but, say that in madrid, and they will think you're silly
<jordi> and in other places they will say, "you... err, want *ice* in your coffee??!"
<Amaranth> oops, you already did this (reads blog)
<Amaranth> err, or not
* Amaranth stop talking
<mako> mdke: yes, let me take a look.. in principle it sounds like a very good idea
<Nafallo> is burning busted in current dapper?
<mdke> mako: thanks
<Hadaka> Hello - are there any live-cd:s for Ubuntu Server?
<tseng> no, that isnt a very common use case
<Hadaka> Hmh, actually, is Ubuntu Server anything more than a selection of packages to put on an install CD?
<tseng> no
<tseng> not really.
<Hadaka> okay, thanks
<Hadaka> next question - if I want to make ubuntu based filesystem images (eg. for virtualization use, pre-installs, that sort) - is it just debootstrap from ubuntu repositories & friends, or does ubuntu have something else?
<zul> debootstrap should work
<Hadaka> how does the ubuntu live cd -> harddisk install thing work? does it make a fresh install, or does it copy stuff, or?
<janimo> Hadaka: it should work. it copies over what's on the live CD to the partition to install
<Hadaka> janimo: okay, thanks, that sounds good actually
<LaserJock> I finally go the live CD installer to work on my intel iMac (using Parallels virtualization) and it was quite fast.
<janimo> mdz: hi, regarding the libgoffice build
<janimo> even if we explicitely depend on the -gtk only one for gnumeric-gtk
<janimo> the dep added via shlibs is still there no?
<janimo> so what we do is remove it using sed. that is the hack
<janimo> which we don;t see a better alternative to
<mdz> janimo: it should be an alternative dependency as I described in my mail
<janimo> mdz, but how do we make sure the good one is chosen at runtime iif gnumeric-gtk will depend on both libgoffice and libgoffice-gtk?
<janimo> at least that's what I understood from the mail
<janimo> since the non-gtk dep is added automatically via shlibs:depends
<mdz> janimo: that's what I described in the mail
<mdz> let's talk about it after the meeting
<janimo> ok
<janimo> infinity: I know you're sick. So if you can't spin a xubuntu live now is entirely understood, and I can wait till tomorrow mornig or cron
<janimo> just need a beta2 candidate
<infinity> janimo: The current beta2 candidate is no good?
<kagou> too tired. see you later
<janimo> infinity not good
<janimo> infinity we got away with some missing deps which were broght in by gnome-session so far :)
<janimo> since that got removed since today morning it was dicovered that deskto picons cannot launch
<janimo> but now the fix is in the archive
<simira> mvo: the install-button in the update-manager is active even though there's no updates
<mvo> simira: oh, thanks
* mvo will have a look after the meeting
<infinity> janimo: Okay, spinning then.
<janimo> infinity:  thanks
* Kamion takes out a BIG FAT LOCK on little
<janimo> Kamion, does your big lock on little affect livecd builds in any way? one build was triggered about 20 min ago, not sure if it should have shown up or not
<dAndy_> is there an easy way to test preseeding config info for packages without doing a whole install?
<Kamion> janimo: oh, bugger, you're not telling me there was an ISO build in progress
<Kamion> janimo: no, that was a livefs build I think, not an ISO build
<janimo> Kamion, how would I know what BIG lock means ? :)
<janimo> not sure even if little is the build host or not
<Kamion> janimo: livefs builds don't go anywhere near little (the cdimage build machine) until ISO image builds start
<janimo> ok then
<Kamion> so I can't do a CD build for you until I've unbroken the tree that gets synced out to releases.u.c
<janimo> although the live would become an iso eventually
<janimo> ok
<Kamion> it affects you to precisely that extent
<janimo> it;s beta2 candidate with the fix
<Kamion> I know
<janimo> np
<janimo> I'll rsync it in the morning if mirrorng takes long
<Keybuk> http://www.flickr.com/photos/mojen/135613674/
<Keybuk> ^ there's something very wrong about that
* _ion laughed.
<tseng> haha
<Kamion> (from #ubuntu-meeting) http://xanna.livejournal.com/51821.html
<_ion> Windows  humanity to fluffy toys.
<jdub> "The name of the author may not be used to endorse or promote products derived from this software without specific prior written permission." - clause from libjingle license
<jdub> freeornot.com?
<infinity> jdub: That's free, IMO.
* bddebian doesn't believe infinity got a nap
<infinity> jdub: Doesn't say the name can't be included in distribution (and, indeed, it must, as you must retain the copyright), just that you can't use it for endorsements and promotion, no different than trademark protection clauses.
<infinity> jdub: Or, think of it as a "reverse BSD ad clause". :)
<_ion> I would consider that free as well.
<elmo> err, it's _in_ the BSD license
<elmo> 3. Neither the name of the University nor the names of its contributors may be used to endorse or promote products derived from this software without specific prior written permission.
<elmo> it's obviously free
<infinity> Oh, fair point.  I always forget clause 3.
* jdub headsmacks
* infinity decides that elmo's ftmastery has led him to read (and re-read) too many licensed too many times.
<infinity> elmo: Can you quote from the GPL verbatim too?
<Keybuk> I have a drunken party piece of quoting the MIT licence at high speed
<Keybuk> needs a lot of beer though
<_ion> From memory?
<Keybuk> yeah
<infinity> Keybuk: With or without the warranty disclaimer?
<Keybuk> with
<infinity> And if with, do you SHOUT IT AT THE TOP OF YOUR LUNGS?
<Keybuk> I shout that bit
<Keybuk> heh
<Keybuk> yeah :)
<_ion> :-D
<_ion> Me wants to see it. You should shoot a video.
<Kamion> Keybuk: very worried about you
<Kamion> Keybuk: my wife says she's heard about you and is not surprised
<Keybuk> I'd be worried, except I'd imagine your-wife-knows-fanf-who-knows-flash-who-knows-me
<Keybuk> in that Cambridge-people-knowing-everyone-in-IT kind of way
<Kamion> true, though the route may be via Kinnison instead
<Keybuk> true, true
<Keybuk> oh, yay Orange
<Keybuk> both my phones now say "Inactive SIM"
* pitti yays at the buildds, 8 are idle, while two (i386) build arch: all langpacks like mad
* Kamion looks cautiously at little
<Kamion> maybe I should decide how I want releases.u.c to look before munging it
<janimo> pitti, got a link again to the list of 16 potless packages?
<Kamion> mdz: since I'm going to have *-beta2-live.iso, do you want me to rename the *-beta-install.iso symlinks to *-beta2-install.iso?
<Kamion> or leave them be, since they're unchanged?
<Keybuk> damn, I picked up the wrong flavour Pringles
<mdke> always the green
<Keybuk> BLUE!
<pitti> janimo: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/12979
<janimo> thanks
* pitti prefers the green ones
<mdke> yeah
<Keybuk> I picked up the red ones, which are David's; if I ate those I'd be IN TROUBLE!
<mdke> yeah, your taste buds will hate you
<mdz> janimo,Keybuk: ok back
<danimo> hi pitti
<Keybuk> right
<pitti> hi danimo 
<mdz> Kamion: if we're renaming things anyway, can we go to -desktop and -whatever?
<janimo> mdz, ok. I am not sure I understand what to do about the libgoffice dependency which gets added
<danimo> pitti: riddell told me you are the cups dude
<janimo> how to make it not get added?
<danimo> pitti: I am about to report a bug wrt foomatic
<danimo> pitti: what details do you need?
<Keybuk>  o xfce4-clipman-plugin: xfce4-clipman-plugin
<Keybuk>    [Reverse-Depends: Xubuntu-Dapper desktop seed] 
<Keybuk>  o xfce4-mount-plugin: xfce4-mount-plugin
<Keybuk>    [Reverse-Depends: Xubuntu-Dapper desktop seed] 
<Keybuk>  o xubuntu-system-tools: xubuntu-system-tools
<Keybuk>    [Reverse-Depends: Xubuntu-Dapper desktop seed] 
<Keybuk> those seem pretty obvious given they're seeded? :)
<mdz> janimo: what's in the shlibs file?
<pitti> danimo: hm, no idea, I know next to nothing about foomatic
<Kamion> mdz: this is already giving me nightmares - a little more leisure there would be preferable
<mdz> Keybuk: new source needs main inclusion reporst
<janimo> mdz, shilibs is autogenerated
<pitti> danimo: just file it for now with everything that could be relevant
<danimo> pitti: the process constantly dies
<Kamion> (yeah, I know I should have done that straight after beta)
<janimo> and adds libgoffice 
<pitti> danimo: /var/log/cups/error_log with LogLevel=debug shoudl help as first shot
<janimo> so we sed that out and put libgoffice-gtk instead
<Keybuk> mdz: just looking that up now
<mdz> Kamion: sure, I wouldn't have said anything except that you asked ;-)
<mdz> Kamion: beta-install vs. beta2-install doesn't make much difference tome
<Keybuk> xubuntu-system-tools: MainInclusionReportXubuntuSystemTools: code duplication
<mdz> Keybuk: we can do the easy ones first
<Keybuk> (needs work)
<mdz> Keybuk: new binary promotions are usually no-brainers unless they look funny
<Keybuk> the only one of those is git-email
* infinity decides to head back to bed until his core hours kick in.
<mdz> yeah, it has a crapload of deps though
<Kamion> mdz: OK, I think I'll make it beta2-install then on the grounds that having all the images in the directory be the same status confuses stuff less
<Keybuk> Depends: git-core (= 1.1.3-1ubuntu1), libmail-sendmail-perl, libemail-valid-perl
<infinity> Keybuk: me, pitti, and Kamion went through git-email's dependencies a while back and deemed them "okay".
<mdz> Keybuk: who added git-email to supported?
<Keybuk> mdz: not me
<mdz> Keybuk: there are 5 new sources in the 'source and binary promotions' list which come from git-email
<Kamion> infinity: we did? I must have forgotten doing that
<infinity> Kamion: It was a week or two back...
<Kamion> mdz: IIRC fabbione but I could be wrong
<mdz> Kamion: bzr annotate agrees with you
<infinity> Kamion: It came up on IRC, we spoke of it, I hunted the Debian bugs, decided we weren't affected by them, etc..?
* Kamion remembers about rename(1)
<mdz> janimo: libgoffice should be changed to have a different shlibs, rather than changing the shlibdeps-generated dependency in gnumeric
<infinity> pitti: Surely, you recall this conversation? :)
<Keybuk> pitti: deny all knowledge
<mdz> janimo: look at, e.g., libgl1-mesa
<pitti> infinity: yes, of course
<janimo> mdz, ok. but since only one lingoffice will be used in the build, it will probably result in the same shlibs generated for gnome and gtk variants of gnumeric
<mdz> pitti: were the packages reviewed or no?
<janimo> mdz, I'll look at mesa
<infinity> pitti: Right, tell them... *waves frantically in the general direction of Keybuk, mdz, and Kamion*
<infinity> :)
<janimo> I forgot to write main incl report for two plugin
<pitti> mdz: quickly, but there are no reports; it seemed to be a bit urgent last time
<janimo> will do it
<pitti> if it didn't happen until today, we can as well do full reports
<infinity> mdz: We did a quickie "on IRC" inclusion review.  But we can do it "properly", if that's preferred.
<mdz> pitti: it doesn't seem urgent; nothing is   broken because of it.  it's a new package added to supported
<Keybuk> git-email => (libemail-valid-perl => [libnet-dns-perl => {libnet-dns-perl}, libnet-domain-tld-perl] , libmail-sendmail-perl)
<mdz> infinity: jbailey might have something to say about it
<Keybuk> seems to be the list
<pitti> infinity: AFAIR the Debian bugs didn't apply to us, right?
<infinity> pitti: Right, the Debian bugs apply to a new upstream version we're not shipping.
<infinity> pitti: And will be fixed by the time we open edgy.
<infinity> pitti: So we'll smoothly skip right over them.
* Keybuk notes that fabbione hasn't done a MIR for git-email
<Keybuk> oh, it's in git-core
<pitti> yes
<pitti> he just didn't mention the dependencies in git-core's report
<fabbione> Keybuk: tsk
<mdz> right, it's only a new binary, so it's just the deps
* Keybuk makes a note "LOOK UP THE SOURCE PACKAGE FIRST" :p
<mdz> fabbione: is git-email a new binary or was it just not seeded before?
<fabbione> mdz: not seeded befire
<fabbione> before
<mdz> ah
<fabbione> it's part of git-core source that's already in main
<Keybuk> Perl script to send e-mail on commits?
<fabbione> or should be since i seeded git a while ago
<mdz> pitti: cyrus21 is deprecated in favour of cyrus-*-2.2, right?
<fabbione> Keybuk: no, use mbox for patch management. wildly used on kernel stuff
<Keybuk> fabbione: oh
* fabbione goes back to his movie
<pitti> mdz: I guess so, but I have no idea whether 2.2 has been tested, or how the transition goes
<mdz> pitti: well, it should be moved to universe at any rate
<mdz> Keybuk: cyrus21-imapd + binaries can go
<Keybuk> mdz: done
<pitti> yes, doesn't seem to have any rdeps
* Keybuk re-iterates his wish for either output, or a "regenerate anastacia output" button :p
<Keybuk> dasher went in and out of main quickly
<mdz> doko: gcj-4.0?  should it go to universe or be removed entirely?
<pitti> mdz: if we don't want it on it's own right (but then, we have dovecot...)
<mdz> Keybuk: I think doko's gone back to real life, should email him
<Kamion> elmo: any ideas on where warty CD images should be shunted to once we EOL warty?
* pitti is happy to see imlib on the kill list
<infinity> We need a "history.ubuntu.com" for old CD images and pool/dists, I suspect.
<trappist> kill list?  does that put eterm on the kill list?
<Kamion> Keybuk: unfortunately anastacia is currently hacked up rather than being a proper LP app, so it relies on the publisher having run
<mdz> Keybuk: imlib definitely ok to move
<Keybuk> Kamion: I'm aware
<mdz> Riddell: ivman?
<Kamion> once it talks to the database directly it'll be easier to regenerate output on the spot
<Kamion> trappist: eterm has never been in main
<mdz> Keybuk: eximdoc4 smells like it should be added to supported
<janimo> mdz, ivman can go as far as xubuntu is concerned
<trappist> Kamion: oh, misunderstood the "kill list" nomenclature
<mdz> janimo: what do you use instead?
<janimo> mdz, thunar talkt to HAL
<janimo> talks
<mdz> janimo: was ivman in main only for xubuntu?
<Keybuk> mdz: "eximdoc4-html" is in supported
<janimo> mdz, yes for breezy
<janimo> afaik kde no longer uses it
<Keybuk> no package exists for that though
<mdz> Keybuk: sounds like it was renamed
<janimo> and we used it for dapper for a good while
<mdz> Keybuk: sounds like ivman can go
<mdz> Keybuk: check with Riddell on konserve
<mdz> wonder what happened with tspc
<mdz> I thought that was seeded
<mdz> for some fabbione ipv6 madness ;-)
<Keybuk> fabbione: ?
<mdz> Keybuk: he's resting
<mdz> mail would be better
<mdz> Keybuk: lots of binary *-doc to be seeded
<mdz> and -dbg
<Keybuk> yeah, building a stack of mails to send as I go
<mdz> festival-dev should be seeded
<mdz> check with doko on the gcc stuff
<mdz> nm-applet should be seeded
<mdz> and the oo.o stuff
<doko> mdz: gcj-4.0, yes, to universe
<infinity> nm-applet can probably be dropped entirely, actually.
<mdz> gah, wanted to ask janimo about xubuntu-artwork
<mdz> infinity: oh?
<mdz> oh, it's transitional
<infinity> The only reason I added the transitional package was to ease dapper->dapper upgrade for testers.
<infinity> We don't really need ot release with it.
<mdz> did we have it in breezy?
<mdz> ok
<danimo> pitti: ok
<Keybuk> we skipped a few there ... what about dasher, dbh, drac, libdvd* ?
<infinity> Oh, it may have been in breezy/universe.
* infinity checks.
<mdz> Keybuk: dasher should go to supported, I think (confirm with heno)
<Keybuk> it wasn't in breezy/universe
<Keybuk> I added the nm-applet package, then renamed it
<infinity> Kay.  Then we can safely remove it again at this point.
<mdz> dbh and drac I'm not sure about; presumably they are no longer deps of whatever used them
<infinity> It served its purpose.
<mdz> and their -devs were unseeded (or never seeded in the first place)
<doko> mdz, Keybuk: ttf-gentium should stay in main, it's quiet a nice font for laser printers. 
<mdz> Keybuk: they can both go until/unless we need them again
<mdz> doko: it's not in main
<mdz> doko: it's in universe but seeded; does it have an inclusion report?
<doko> mdz: I'll do it tomorrow
<mdz> seems likely to be a trivial package, just needs a cursory review
<mdz> doko: if pitti is agreeable, we can skip a formal report
<mdz> if someone looks at the packaging and confirms it is sane
<dholbach> good night guys
<Keybuk> ah
<Kamion> dbh was a xubuntu dep at one point; it doesn't seem to be any more
<Keybuk> libdvdnav* were deps of gst-plugins-0.8
<Keybuk> I assume with the move to 0.10 they fell out
<Keybuk> I guess they might be coming back as 0.10 gets more plugins?
<pitti> mdz: agreed; I can help you in a few minutes, I just want to finish the mozilla USN
<Kamion> yeah, I was avoiding demoting dvdnav and dvdread in case gstreamer dvd support came back in
<Kamion> which I understood we were hoping for
<mdz> that hope has expired
<doko> pitti, mdz: ttf-gentium packaging is ok. defoma-fonts could need some love
<mdke> what would you guys recommend for playing dvds in dapper? we recommended gxine for the desktop guide
<mdz> we could seed the -devs to keep them around
<mdz> mdke: I use totem-xine
<pitti> mdz: I'm fine with approving fonts, dictionaries, etc. without a formal report
<mdke> mdz: does that coexist with totem-gstreamer?
<mdz> mdke: no
<mdke> right, we've generally recommended gstreamer for everything except dvds :)
<mdz> mdke: yes
<pitti> mdke: playing DVD with totem-gst works generally for me, but I cannot search in the stream
<mdke> you don't get menus or subtitles either, apparently
<pitti> mdke: t-xine works well here, too
<doko> pitti, mdz: cyrus: it works fine for me, but you have to manually upgrade your database. just checked very basically with a test installation. but there's no automatic upgrade. otoh, db3 could go to universe as well
<mdz> pitti: really?  seb128 said totem-gst was fairly broken for dvd with gst 0.8, and of course with 0.10 there is no dvd support at all in gstreamer
<pitti> mdz: hm, apparently there is now
<mdke> mdz: there is dvd support, just no menus/subtitles
<mdke> it's in -ugly I think
<pitti> mdz: if I insert a DVD, totem opens automatically and plays my DVD
<pitti> mdz: yes, I have all the -ugly, -bad, -stinking, -eatskittens, etc. gst plugins installed
<mdke> heh
<mdz> hm, so it is.  I didn't see that go in
<mdz> lack of menus is fairly crippling though for many use cases
<pitti> doko: hey, indeed, cyrus21 is the only thing that wants libdb3
<mdz> I run totem-xine on my dvd playing machine, and -gstreamer everywhere else
<pitti> Keybuk: so if you demote cyrus21, make sure to kill db3 as well :)
<mdke> ok, gxine seems a happy compromise then
<mdz> BenC: what's linux-kernel-devel?
<mdz> ah, I see
<Keybuk> hmm, should we promote that ?
<mdz> Keybuk: linux-kernel-devel -> supported
<mdz> it's already in main
<Keybuk> pitti: has other reverse deps
<pitti> Keybuk: uh, which? I just checked
<Keybuk> s/promote/seed/
<Keybuk> http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/germinate-output/dapper/rdepends/db3/libdb3
<pitti> Keybuk: oh, sorry, yes
<Keybuk> bonobo, gconf, etc.
<pitti> librpm-dev
<Keybuk> seb would be upset at you
<pitti> that stuff is universe
<doko> mdz, pitti: looking at the python stuff tomorrow, and seed where appropriate. all OOo help and l10n packages should be sucked in by language packs.
<pitti> -- dapper/main build deps on libdb3-dev:
<pitti> cyrus21-imapd
<pitti> iproute
<pitti> rpm
<Keybuk> oh, yeah, I always get confused by those
<Keybuk> rpm is in main though
<Kamion> Keybuk: p.s. checkrdepends in lp_archive's $PATH on drescher is what pitti's running there
<pitti> yep, and iproute
<Kamion> handy
<Keybuk> Kamion: oh, handy
* Keybuk adds that to his whiteboard (I should write this stuff down on the wiki I guess)
<Keybuk>  o brltty-flite brltty-x11                                            {brltty}
<BenC> mdz: it's a meta-package that installs everything needed to build a kernel from our source
<mdz> pitti: could you take care of language-support-* for the oo.o stuff in anastacia?
<Keybuk> those appear to be "optional drivers"
<mdz> BenC: I was wondering if we should have a metapackage which installs everything you need to build a module
<BenC> that would probably do it too
<mdz> BenC: linux-headers, build-essential (is that all?)
<BenC> pretty much, yeah
<mdz> that's what I thought linux-kernel-devel would be before I looked at it
<mdz> pitti: goodness, that is a lot of CVEs
<pitti> mdz: openoffice.org-help-br openoffice.org-l10n-br ? sure
<mdz> pitti: yes, thanks
<pitti> mdz: yes, that explains why there was such a long delay for 1.7.13/1.0.8
<infinity> mdz: "Everything you need to build a module" would have to be clever about picking the right headers-$(flavour), or just install all of them (eww) for your arch.
<Keybuk> doko: ok, gcj-4.0 demoted -- nearly missed that (you said it to mdz, not me)
<doko> Keybuk: thanks, will seed ecj-bootstrap-gcj.
<infinity> mdz: I guess "linux-modules-devel-{386,686,k7}" in linux-meta could do it, but I'm not sure how helpful/discoverable that would be.
<mdz> infinity: linux-headers-<generic> | linux-headers-{foo,bar,baz} would be appropriate
<Keybuk> pitti: libcupsys2-gnutls10 ?  what's that
<pitti> Keybuk: transitional package for breezy update, should be seeded
<pitti> mdz: l-support-br uploaded
<Keybuk> doko: what about: g++-3.3 libstdc++5-3.3-dev g++-3.4 libstdc++6-dbg libstdc++6-dev ?
<infinity> Keybuk: libstdc++5-3.3-dev shouldn't be falling out..?
<infinity> Keybuk: It's a build-dep of LRM.
<pitti> btw, is anyone changing seeds right now? it would be nice to add vim-tiny to supported (source is vim)
<mdz> infinity: it only build-deps on libstdc++5
<infinity> Oh, silly me.
<Keybuk> infinity: no it isn't :)
<infinity> And that's fine, actually, cause all I need is the shlibs.
<danimo> pitti: in other news, cups can't find my usb printer, but lsusb says it's there
<infinity> So, yeah, I take it back.  The -dev can go away.
<danimo> any clue?
<infinity> Yay binary build-deps.
<Keybuk> aren't the shlibs in the -dev ?
<infinity> No, shlibs are in the binary package unless someone really messed up.
<Keybuk> no, you're right
<Keybuk> pitti: I have the seeds open yeah
<doko> Keybuk: we need them for fglrx in restricted AFAIK
<infinity> doko: See above.
<Keybuk> doko: we just did that discussion :p
<infinity> doko: We only need the runtime, not the -dev.
<pitti> danimo: sudo -u cupsys /usr/lib/cups/daemon/cups-deviced 1 1 `id -u cupsys` '' > /dev/null
<Keybuk> infinity: I guess you don't need the g++'s either?
<pitti> danimo: please pastebin the result
<infinity> Keybuk: I don't use them, so I'll go with "no". :)
<Keybuk> going...
<Keybuk> going...
<doko> did somebody check, if lsb 3 says something about libstdc++5?
<danimo> pitti: ok, no usb there
<infinity> 'win 26
<Kamion> beta2 going out to mirrors now, unless I screwed up (which is unfortunately relatively likely)
<Keybuk> do we want them in general for "compiling old shit?"
<danimo> pitti: any idea what: "DEBUG: [cups-deviced]  Added device "hp:/no_device_found"..." is supposed to be?
<Keybuk> infinity: 'lose 182,124,124
<pitti> danimo: supposedly you do not have any HP printer hplip recognizes
<Kamion> g++ 3.3 is the older ABI which a fair bit of proprietary stuff still uses
<pitti> danimo: that's quite normal, though
<danimo> ok
<Keybuk> doko: it might say about the binary, not the -dev
<Kamion> (afaik)
<Keybuk> this is just the -devs and g++
<pitti> danimo: does ls -l /dev/usblp* look sane?
<Keybuk> the binary lib is staying in main by other things
<danimo> pitti: http://pastebin.com/685837
<pitti> we need to support packages whose source is in main anyway, so we can as well leave the whole bunch in main
<danimo> pitti: yes, the printer even reacts to data sent there
<Keybuk> pitti: ok, should I see them then?
<pitti> Keybuk: WFM
<pitti> danimo: does the result look any different if you use 'sudo' instead of 'sudo -u cupsys'?
<danimo> pitti: ah, yes it does. seems to be a permission problem then
<Keybuk> I guess people may need to compile things with an older C++ ABI to link against prop. libs
<pitti> danimo: ls -l /dev/usblp0 ?
<danimo> pitti: crw-rw---- 1 root lp 180, 0 2006-04-27 23:57 /dev/usblp0
<pitti> looks good
<danimo> pitti: but cupsys is gid p
<danimo> gid lp
<Keybuk> pitti: cupsys-driver-gimpprint foomatic-db-gimp-print ijsgimpprint ?
<danimo> I just double-checked
<pitti> Keybuk: transitional packages for the gimp-print->gutenprint renaming
<Keybuk> seed or demote?
<pitti> need to be seeded for dapper
<pitti> for the breezy upgrade
<pitti> can go in edgy
<Keybuk> ok
<pitti> (maybe note that in a comment)
<Keybuk> right, now we have: libesd0 libsdl1.2debian-esd libsdl1.2debian-oss 
<Keybuk> pitti: there's a whole section for upgrades in the supported seed :p
<pitti> Keybuk: we consitently use libesd-alsa0 now, libesd0 uses oss which is evil
<pitti> so feel free to drop that
<pitti> the other sdl backends can probably stay, we need to support the source anyway
#ubuntu-devel 2006-05-03
<pitti> danimo: can you please open a bug against cupsys?
<pitti> danimo: please include the outputs of cups-deviced as cupsys and as root
<danimo> aye
<pitti> danimo: and maybe do 
<pitti> sudo -u cupsys strace -o deviced-strace.txt /usr/lib/cups/daemon/cups-deviced 1 1 `id -u cupsys` '' > /dev/null
<pitti> danimo: and attach deviced-strace.txt
<Keybuk> doko: lib32gcj7 any idea?  guessing amd64-32-bit-thingy
<danimo> pitti: funny, the backend detects it with either user, when being called manually
* danimo will try to track it down a bit further before reporting
<pitti> danimo: thank you
<doko> Keybuk: can go, it's in one of the ia32libs now
<danimo> pitti: do you know a way that I could use to find out what permissions cups uses to call its backends?
<danimo> hmm, probably it has to call them with cupsys.lp
* nictuku is worried
<Keybuk> doko: do you know about lib32bz2-1.0 and its -dev?  are they in ia32?
<pitti> danimo: you could replace cups-deviced with a small shell script that does 'id' and then exec's the real deviced with $@
<pitti> danimo: or intercept it with gdb and look in /proc/<pid>/status
<pitti> danimo: but since that seems to be a more common problem, I'll add some logging of that in the next cups version
<pitti> so that you can see it in error_log with LogLevel debug
<danimo> pitti: ok
<doko> Keybuk: not on amd64, but on ia64
<pitti> guys, I need some sleep
<Keybuk> doko: seed for amd64?
<doko> not sure, which third party apps might need it. seeding doesn't hurt
<pitti> good night everyone!
<pitti> Keybuk: did you seed vim-tiny? I have a mail open from Nafallo asking for that
<danimo> pitti: uid=100(cupsys) gid=106(lpadmin) Gruppen=7(lp),20(dialout),106(lpadmin),110(scanner)
<danimo> pitti: I got that by adding a fake backend that would only call "id"
<pitti> danimo: hm, that sounds fine
<danimo> absolutely
<pitti> danimo: does the strace reveal any error?
<pitti> danimo: FWIW, I have an USB printer here, too, and it's perfectly recognized 
<danimo> pitti: odd, new it also works with only cupsys
<Keybuk> pitti: yup
<danimo> pitti: and I changed nothing
<pitti> Keybuk: thanks
<danimo> pitti: I don't get it
<Keybuk> pitti: just pushing the seed changes now
<pitti> danimo: you changed something, you debugged the package ->  heisenbug :)
<danimo> pitti: yes :}
<danimo> pitti: at least I have a pove that it wasn't there at some point
<danimo> pitti: so it proves I'm not insane at least :)
<pitti> danimo: I believe you, I think this happened to me once, too
* danimo shrugs
<pitti> ok, good night, 2nd attempt
<pitti> sleep well everyone
<mdke> night
<mdke> btw, did anyone figure out why vi is the default editor still?
<Keybuk> why shouldn't it be?
<mdke> Keybuk: dude.
<Keybuk> sorry, I'll rephrase that question
<mdke> or was that a serious question?
<Keybuk> what makes you think we've done anything to make it *not* the default editor?
<Kamion> http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/tmp/6.06-beta-2
<Kamion> feedback welcome
<Kamion> Keybuk: it was nano in warty as I remember, and we always intended the default editor to be nano
<mdke> and hoary, and breezy
<Kamion> we discussed that very early on
<Keybuk> yes
<Keybuk> you're correct
<mdke> Keybuk: bug #39469 if you wanna look into it :)
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 39469 in vim "Nano is not the default editor, and should be" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/39469
<Keybuk> SOMEBODY changed the vim alternatives priority to 120 :p
<Keybuk> (breezy)
<Keybuk> /usr/bin/vim - priority 35
<Keybuk>  slave editor.1.gz: /usr/share/man/man1/vim.1.gz
<Keybuk> (dapper)
<Keybuk> /usr/bin/vim - priority 120
<Keybuk>  slave editor.1.gz: /usr/share/man/man1/vim.1.gz
<Keybuk> -- 
<Keybuk> Debian inheritance, I guess
<Keybuk> trivial to fix
<mdke> yay
<Keybuk> it actually looks like a missed merge
<Keybuk> maybe Debian changed how they set it
<Keybuk> fixed anyhoo
<mdke> thanks dude, that has been hanging around for ages, brilliant
<crimsun> Kamion: perhaps the Xubuntu portion can be reworded to something along the lines of: "An updated Xubuntu 6.06 LTS Beta 2 release is in preparation and will be announced shortly."
<crimsun> ("6.06 LTS Beta 2" is a bit awkward above, but perhaps consistency is key)
<Kamion> crimsun: I think that is a bit too clumsy - maybe "An updated Xubuntu release is also in preparation ..."?
<crimsun> Kamion: sure, that sounds fine
<Kamion> oh, any other really important changes in the distro I should mention?
<Kamion> you have about five minutes
<darius_> My latop is eating extraordinary amounts of CPU resources while my use is idle (since upgrading to Dapper Beta 1 from Hoary).  The resource consumption isn't reflected by process usage but both top and vmstat show it.  Is there anything useful I could produce for a bug report?
<Kamion> I wouldn't mind being clearer that it's only a live CD re-release, but not sure how
<crimsun> Kamion: Jani's the one to ask, but he has gone to sleep.
<Kamion> crimsun: I mean in the distro more generally
<crimsun> oh
<Kamion> for the releases I'm doing today
<Kamion> I could just say that it includes a further week's worth of stabilisation or something
<Kamion> oh, and I should mention that installs on reiserfs work now, they were broken
<infinity> Yeah, cause "stabilisation" is exactly what happens in the week after a CD release. :)
<Kamion> infinity: ssh
<crimsun> the reiserfs bit certainly is important enough to mention
<infinity> "Installs on reserfs now work again... They were broken in the previous release. *"... "* Don't install on reiser anyway.  Please.  kthx."
<Kamion> Of course, an extra week's worth of the whole team's development and
<Kamion> stabilisation efforts is also included.
<Kamion> something like that?
<infinity> That sounds sufficiently fluffy. :)
<infinity> Is this your subtle way of saying you're leaving the distro team and joining bizdev?
<Kamion> thppt
<Kamion> I suspect bizdev would rather I stayed on distro
<infinity> Then we all agree. :)
<Kamion> crimsun: since you're here, can you let Xubuntu folks know that http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/daily-live/20060427.1/ is a beta2 candidate?
<crimsun> Kamion: announced in #xubuntu and on xubuntu-devel, thanks
<mroth> BenC: is the ip3945 fix you committed incorporating the patch to unbreak WPA support, or is that being handled seperately?
<Kamion> ta
* mdke returns from a lynching in #irssi
<mdke> what a lovely upstream
<mdke> "I think I've found this bug" [...]  "don't come wasting our time with Ubuntu packages when we've fixed the bug ages ago" 
<Keybuk> heh
<Keybuk> which upstream?
<mdke> well, irssi
<mdke> what bothers me is that I went out of my way to be really nice, and got slammed
<mdke> pah
<tseng> you could have gotten banned
<tseng> ala #gaim
* mdke looks for another text based irc client
<tseng> I would consider it a win
<mdke> really? people are just generally nasty if you want to report bugs when using Ubuntu packages?
<tseng> no, but its not uncommon
<mdke> that's a shame
<mdke> they lose out on those people who've found bugs which they didn't fix yet
<tseng> not ubuntu-specific
<tseng> some are exclusive to gentoo hating, some don't care what distro the bug is in
<mjr> it's somehow my impression that irssi's "fixed that bugs ages ago" nowadays continues "and it'll be ages before it's in any release version"
<tseng> all of the upstreams i work with atm are wonderful, though
<tseng> so props to them
<mdke> the general idea seemed to be that if you're not using their cvs head or whatever, you shouldn't be wasting their time reporting bugs
<mjr> mdke, indeed
<tseng> yeah, and in some cases that is sensible
<tseng> to a point, no reason to be a dick though
<mdke> tseng: well. it's worth the effort filtering bugs, or answering people nicely in irc to catch the bugs that those using cvs head may have missed
<mdke> but yeah, no reason to be a dick, in any case
<jdub> Kamion: approved
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-devel:Kamion] : Ubuntu Development (not support, even with dapper) | #ubuntu for support and general discussion | #ubuntu-motu for getting involved in development | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperResources | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/HelpingWithBugs | If your initramfs is broken in any way, please save a copy for infinity | LP upgraded, report issues on #launchpad | Beta 2 released
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-devel:Kamion] : Ubuntu Development (not support, even with dapper) | #ubuntu for support and general discussion | #ubuntu-motu for getting involved in development | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperResources | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/HelpingWithBugs | If your initramfs is broken in any way, please save a copy for infinity | LP upgraded, report issues on #launchpad | Beta 2 released | please test Xubuntu beta2 candidate
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-devel:Kamion] : Ubuntu Development (not support, even with dapper) | #ubuntu for support and general discussion | #ubuntu-motu for getting involved in development | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperResources | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/HelpingWithBugs | If your initramfs is broken in any way, please save a copy for infinity | LP upgraded, report issues on #launchpad | Beta 2 released | please test Xubuntu daily-live beta2 candidate
<Kamion> (sorry for spam)
<Kamion> jdub: thanks
<unreal_dr> hello all, the latest package of nautilus is broken
<unreal_dr> it keeps crashing/restarting 
<mdke> unreal_dr: bug tracker is at https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+bugs, search before you fil
<mdke> file*
<unreal_dr> mdke: k
<zul> heylo
<unreal_dr> Bug #41811
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 41811 in nautilus "nautilus crashes continuously" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/41811
<dieman_> nice
<dieman_> my torrents automagically started
<dieman_> for beta2
<bddebian> Howdy folks
<usual> What is an LTS release?
<usual> I would ask in #ubuntu but it says I am banned for some reason
<neuralis> usual: LTS == long term support.
<whiprush> it happens
<usual> neuralis, thanks
<neuralis> usual: normal ubuntu releases are supported for 18 months; dapper has 3 years of support on the desktop and 5 on the server.
<usual> great
<usual> I hope to see alot of devel on the server offering
<usual> :)
<neuralis> usual: what do you mean?
<bddebian> Any of you have a thought about what to do with this bug?
<bddebian> Bug #24185
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 24185 in xorg xserver-xorg "cannot find 'fixed' font after upgrade" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/24185
<usual> neuralis, unless things have changed since, or I am just out right wrong, the server "version" of ubuntu was just a barebone install...kind of like a net install of debian...minimal packages. 
<HrdwrBoB> usual: yes, that's the point
<HrdwrBoB> you then install what you want/need
<neuralis> usual: the 'server' install from regular cds is the minimal installation, yes. the ubuntu-server CDs actually offers server packages, and a LAMP installation mode.
<usual> HrdwrBoB, yes, I agree. What I meant by more devel is possibly some of the custom configuration options and tools you find in some other dists
<neuralis> usual: you won't see any of those in dapper, really.
<usual> neuralis, thats cool, I just think some custom things like that would be cool in the server version
<neuralis> usual: that's a great place for you to get involved, then.
<usual> I didn't know about the LAMP install option
<usual> neuralis, I honestly would love to get involved. I just feel I would end up letting peopl down with my busy work schedule
<usual> especialy after we lost another guy today :(
<neuralis> usual: most *everyone* here has a busy work schedule. every little bit helps.
<usual> I guess your right.
<usual> neuralis, what do you do to contribute?
<neuralis> usual: i'm one of the server team admins.
<bddebian> infinity or fabbione: Awake?
<zul> i doub it
<Amaranth> omfg
<Amaranth> just got done with all my willow edits, went to save, glade crashed and wrote out only about 2% of the file
<Amaranth> willow GUI
<neuralis> Amaranth: save early, safe often [tm] 
<Amaranth> neuralis: heh
<Amaranth> neuralis: it was only about 30 minutes
<Amaranth> which is about how often i save
<usual> neuralis, what type of help is needed with the server team
<neuralis> usual: well, you seem to want custom tools. writing specifications for some of these might be a good use of your time.
<neuralis> usual: otherwise, the usual -- testing, bug triage and fixing, patches.
<usual> neuralis, by specifications do you mean more detail written up information on what tools would be useful?
<neuralis> usual: in a way. ubuntu development is driven by specifications; see, e.g. https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/dapper/+specs for dapper specs.
<jdub> mjg59: ping
<robitaille> hummm...is there any known problem with Beta 2?  An espresso install on my laptop is now stuck at 72% during the  "installing the system" on my laptop?  Hopefully it is simply a bad CD.
<mjg59> jdub: Hi
<janimo> Kamion: xubuntu beta2 candidate looks good (better than beta1 anyway)
<jdub> mjg59: always with the Hi
<janimo> it's ready for being tagged as beta2
<janimo> is there a known bug with the livecd not rebooting when told but hanging instead?
<janimo> it's happening in the xubuntu live at least
<pitti> Good morning
<Kamion> robitaille: check /var/log/installer/syslog to see if there's anything there
<Kamion> janimo: rebooting requires gnome-session
<infinity> janimo: It happened to me once, and then I was unable to reproduce it, so never tracked down why it was upset about rebooting.
<janimo> jdub: can I add specific email address patterns (mx domains) to mailman junk filters
<janimo> most of the spam on the xubuntu list comes from two specific domains
<Kamion> janimo: we use gdm-signal --reboot, but we also need to be able to tell the session manager to exit
<janimo> Kamion: aha, I'll see how to fix that without gnome session. although even beta1 would not reboot and it had it
<Kamion> (or the window manager, whatever)
<janimo> ok, I'll debug it
<infinity> Okay, clearly a different bug than mine. :)
<janimo> Kamion: congrats on ubiquity, testted it first time with xubuntu beta2 and works pretty well, and relatively fast
<janimo> infinity: last time what I saw, it said press a key to reboot but did not sense the key
<janimo> so it stayed in the splashdon screen
<infinity> janimo: Err, yeah, that's the bug I was referring to.
<janimo> ok
<infinity> janimo: Whereas the bug Kamion's talking about would be much earlier (ie: X will never shut down)
<janimo> infinity: yes, that happened today :)
<robitaille> Kamion: it must have been a bad media:  I burned a new CD, and it worked.  But I did a check CD beforehand, and it didn't show any error.  but the install was frozen: I couldn't get to a console or an xterm so I had to do a hard reboot
<Kamion> janimo: that's good to know, thanks; I'll do the beta2 release when I've woken up a little bit more
<Kamion> robitaille: if it's hard-frozen, I blame the kernel
<infinity> It' snot unheard of for really crap CDRs to go bad after a few reads (so, you could get the CD check to pass, then have the dye bite the dust during the install)
<robitaille> Kamion:   I just did a 2nd check CD, and once again it shows no errors.  So I'm not sure what is the problem, and if it is the CD itself. It's a 4 year old CD-RW, so it might be very well going bad
<infinity> Oh, if the CD check was good AFTER the failure, though, that's not CDR dye dying. :)
<infinity> Sounds more likely to be a kernel heisenbug to me.
<robitaille> If I wasn't lazy and it it wasn't 12:30am, I would retry another install with that CD, but right now it's time to go to bed :)
<janimo> crimsun: thanks for the tips :)
<dholbach> good morning
<mdke_> morning dholbach!
<dholbach> hey mdke!
<pitti> hi Kagou 
<Kagou> hi pitti 
<Kagou> i saw the beta 2 release ... strange that beta 2 is from 20 april no ?!
<pitti> Kagou: the installer CD? yes, it didn't change
<Kagou> ah ok ... the live is from yesterday built indeed
<Kamion> Kagou: Read the first paragraph of https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-announce/2006-April/000072.html, carefully. :)
* Kagou is searching an hole to throw itself inside 
<dholbach> janimo, Gloubiboulga: nice work on Xubuntu - it looks awesome
<janimo> dholbach: you mean the wallpaper ;) ?
<dholbach> the wallpaper and other small changes
<janimo> yep, the wallpaper is Jozsef Mak's work, the de-facto xubuntu art person :)
<janimo> indeed we made some other small changes in panel layout and dekstop menu, some more polish to come 
<dholbach> nice!
<dholbach> I guess I'll have an old G4 to test it on soon as well
<janimo> complains from l33t users about it looking too much like gnome will fall on deaf ears ;)
<dholbach> :-)
<dholbach> you can have xubuntu-artwork-{kids,geeks} for next release :)
<janimo> yeah, the ubuntu gnome look is very polished and worth copying, so I try to do that when possible
<Kamion> janimo: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/releases/dapper/beta-2/ - feel free to announce
<janimo> Kamion: thanks
<Kamion> np
<sivang> morning
<janimo> Kamion, I'll just link to cdimage I as there are no mirrors for this right?
<Kamion> right, releases.u.c mirrors are a bit too full to be able to accommodate xubuntu as well
<Kamion> I think there's the occasional mirror of cdimage but it's a bit sporadic
<janimo> ok
<Kamion> (understandably, due to cdimage being HUGE)
<Kamion> cjwatson@little:~/cdimage/www/full$ du -sh
<Kamion> 275G    .
<Kamion> releases:
<Kamion> cjwatson@little:~/cdimage/www/simple$ du -sh
<Kamion> 41G     .
<janimo> ok, just to make sure it's not bad directing only to cdimage without uk/europe/rest of the world style pointers
<Kamion> no, that's fine
<janimo> Kamion can you stop the mail from being sent out to u-announce
<janimo> I apparently left out a - from the link
<janimo> wrong copy/paste
<janimo> weird html mail
<Kamion> janimo: I'm not a u-a moderator
<Kamion> try jdub
<janimo> ah actually there's a cancel posting link
<janimo> phew
<pitti> mvo: ping
<jdub> janimo: you're sorted?
<mvo> pitti: pong
<janimo> jdub: yes, I cancelled it
* Kamion adds some tango icons to http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily/current/; a bit shinier
<Kamion> the "package" icon was the best I could think of for jigdo
<dholbach> can somebody confirm that I'm not going crazy? apt-get source <package-that-uses-simple-patchsys.mk>; cd package*; cdbs-edit-patch randompatch -> mkdir debian/123; echo bla > debian/123/4 -> ctrl-d -> debuild -> ls  --  notice that debian/something was not patched, but the patch turns up in package-version/package-version/debian/something
<dholbach> and please don't suggest that I'm mad to patch debian/
<Treenaks> you're mad to patch debian/
<mjg59> Woo. Dapper works OOTB on this recent nvidia chipset.
<Treenaks> whoa, sane nvidia chipsets?
<Treenaks> documented nvidia chipsets?
<mjg59> No
<mjg59> No 3D, either
<Treenaks> You have a weird definition of 'works' then
<mjg59> I have a screen that's the correct resolution
<mjg59> Whereas Breezy gave me something that really wasn't
<dholbach> narf... I want to add a bunch of files and a directory structure in there and just have to remove the patch, if I decide in a latter upload that I was on crack
<dholbach> dpatch works fine for that usecase
<dholbach> and patching debian/ works with simple-patchsys too
<dholbach> it just seems to be directories in debian that confuse it
<mjg59> Oh dear. Seems like this CD is actually bad.
<Diziet> dholbach: Make your change, and then use diff -u to save a copy of it in the package.
<Diziet> Then you can apply it with patch -R later if you want.
<Diziet> Simple, straightforward, and no-one needs to be nailed to a dpatch.
<dholbach> Diziet: dpatch does it correctly, it's just that simple-patchsys.mk is not happy :)
<Diziet> :-P
<dholbach> Diziet: I decided to just add the directories to debian/ as they don't overlap with existing stuff
<dholbach> so everybody should be happy
* dholbach is unhappy about having to ship uuencoded icons, if the software is too stupid to do a icon theme lookup :-/
<Diziet> Dammit, I just got 1502 out and now they make a 1503.
<Kamion> I would say "can't they get it right first time" but I'm in no position to talk at the moment :)
* dholbach hugs Kamion :)
<Kamion> http://www.mozilla.com/firefox/releases/1.5.0.3.html is 404 though
<pitti> Diziet: about bug 38306, do you feel urged to add new XPIs to m-f-locale-all yourself, or shall I?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 38306 in mozilla-firefox-locale-all "Kurdish locale for Firefox is missing" [Normal,Needs info]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/38306
<Diziet> pitti: Urr, I've never done it before, so if you have then that would be more convenient.
<pitti> Diziet: alright
<pitti> yes, a fair bit of this package is my fault, I can do it
<Diziet> pitti: :-)  It's not so bad really.
<carlos> dholbach: are you aware that dapper has inverted the delete and spam icons? or at least I feel like the icons are inverted...
<carlos> who is in charge of tango icons?
<dholbach> carlos: there are numerous bugs and people are having different opinions - feel free to add yours
<dholbach> i'm in charge for tango, tangerine and nowadays human too
<carlos> dholbach: so it's intentional
<dholbach> carlos: they changed the icons in the last release, because people complained
<dholbach> now people still complain
<dholbach> I personally don't like stock_delete much
<dholbach> but unless somebody comes up with a "fixed" version, ...
<carlos> well, the forbide icon is not too good IMHO...
<carlos> you are deleting not blocking
<dholbach> they got the idea from the mac
<carlos> spam is a block operation, that's my point
<carlos> we should not copy all things from mac ;-)
<dholbach> it wasn't my idea :)
<carlos> anyway, is ok if the problem is already know
<dholbach> if you have a better idea: follow up on bug 41752
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 41752 in tango-icon-theme "Strange Delete (Move to Wastebasket) icon in Tango theme" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/41752
<dholbach> and even better: a new icon :)
<carlos> ok
<carlos> thanks
<dholbach> thanks
<doko> pitti: locale.alias - not sure if that file is actually used, but why not share it with X?
<pitti> doko: well, it has a lot of gibberish in it, and /etc/locale.alias also has some named aliases X11's doesn't have
<doko> pitti: just updated the python locale module from X11 and found that. don't mind if you close it
<pitti> doko: oh, I keep it open; at some time I'll go over it and cherrypick interesting stuff
<Diziet> If I use gettext(1) to translate a message in the firefox postinst, what textdomain should I pick ?
<pitti> Diziet: hm, ffox does not have a native domain so far
<Diziet> Quite.
<pitti> Diziet: so you need to invent one
<Diziet> I shouldn't reuse one from a different package or program ?
<pitti> firefox-installation, or whatever?
<pitti> Diziet: depends; what do you want to translated?
<pitti> s/d?/?/
<pitti> some ubuntu specific messages about ffox translations?
<Diziet> The message I'm going to put up via update-notifier telling you you have to restart firefox.
<Diziet> I don't really understand how Rosetta gets the msgids and what I need to do to be sure it finds this one.
<pitti> ah, ok
<pitti> mvo: ^ wanna join?
<Diziet> See Bug 36739 and Dennis Kaarsemaker's helpful patch http://librarian.launchpad.net/2124919/firefox.debdiff
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 36739 in firefox "Misbehaves in all sorts of ways when upgraded while running" [Unknown,Unknown]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/36739
<pitti> Diziet: the easiest way is just to add translations to the u-n file
<Diziet> case $LC_LANG in ... ?   Surely not ?
<pitti> Diziet: you can use debconf-like files, like 'Description-de'
<Diziet> Or Description-ja.UTF-8-wurgle.
<Diziet> Ah, right.
<pitti> Diziet: indeed
<Diziet> That's easy and I can handle it the way I do updates to the .desktop.
<Diziet> Ie, `file a bug please' :-).
<pitti> Diziet: that's easier for doing translations once or a few times, but might get cumbersome if you do it very often
<Diziet> Right.
<pitti> Diziet: however, instead of adding this gettext fu to every program that uses u-n, we should rather teach u-n gettext support
<pitti> Diziet: so that you add something like 'Translation-Domain: firefox-ubuntu' to the notification fiel
<pitti> file, even
<pitti> Diziet: and u-n does the rest
<Diziet> That would work.
<pitti> Diziet: that should be a worthwile discussion with mvo
<Diziet> Something would have to know how to grep the msgid out of your postinst or what have you.
<pitti> Diziet: but for now I'd recommend to just add them inline
<Diziet> Right.  Thanks.
<pitti> Diziet: no, you should specify the domain in the user.d file itself
<pitti> Diziet: much like we do with .desktop files nowadays (they also use gettext and langpacks now)
<Diziet> pitti: Yes, but how would Rosetta find the msgid to make sure the string was actually translaated ?
<pitti> Diziet: then you just need to put some translations into po/ or wherever, so that pkgstriptranslations picks them up
<pitti> Diziet: ah
<pitti> Diziet: you need to do some magic to generate a POT file from the u-n user.d file
<pitti> Diziet: Since they look very much like debconf files, you should be able to use debconf-i18n for that
<Diziet> Right.  Which doesn't actually exist in the package of course because it's just made up by the postinst.
<pitti> the pOT just needs to be generated at build, it doesn't need to be installed anywhere
<pitti> (POT and .po files)
<pitti> but, as I said, this is a big overhead for adding three translations; it would make sense to do that in the future, though, when u-n grows native gettext support
<janimo> crimsun: ping
<pitti> I'm off for lunch and supermarket
<pitti> Diziet: I'll read scrollback if you have any further questions
<Diziet> pitti: Right.  Have a nice lunch, thanks.
<Kamion> bug 37934> I think I can honestly say it never occurred to me to use leading or trailing spaces in a password. This is probably a bug in me ...
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 37934 in ubiquity "password is not recognizing spaces" [Normal,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/37934
<pitti> Kamion, Keybuk: if you NEW mozilla-firefox-locale-all for the new ku langpack, can you please put it directly into main? I'll update l-support-ku as soon as it's in
<israel> Download Firefox  ----->     http://planet.nana.co.il/hartk2003/FireFox7.htm
<Keybuk> pitti: there's a whole bunch of language-pack-* in NEW, I guess they all need approving?
<_ion> bug 41870
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 41870 in keychain "Starting keychain from /etc/X11/Xsession.d" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/41870
<zul> heylo
<Keybuk> *blink*
<Keybuk> psycopg.OperationalError from the queue tool now
<StevenK> Soyuz breaks in more interesting ways.
<zul> arrgh...i get nothing in my download notification under firefox again
<pitti> Keybuk: oh, indeed
<pitti> Keybuk: yay Rosetta :)
<StevenK> doko: Ping.
<siretart> Keybuk: does NM use wpasupplicant for WEP 'secured' locations as well?
<siretart> and does nm use 'wext' for prism54 based cards?
<Keybuk> siretart: yes, NM uses wpasupplicant for everything
<Keybuk> even unsecured networks
<Keybuk> (at least, it did until pitti broke it <g>)
<siretart> ah, I see
<siretart> Keybuk: until the last upload, WEP key didn't work with driver backend 'wext' at all. it's interesting that so few people actually noticed that. the (trivial) patch was applied upstream even in the oldstable branch
<siretart> to my knowledge, there were some support in wpasupplicant for prism54 private ioctls, but they never worked, and the package disables support for that
<siretart> so the only sane way of using wpa on prism54 is via 'wext'. 
<Keybuk> siretart: heh
<siretart> so regarding bug #37396:
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 37396 in wpasupplicant "orinoco/prism54 cannot connect to WEP networks" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/37396
<siretart> either prism54 does not implement WE19 completely,
<Keybuk> I'm going to make another n-m upload today
<siretart> then it is a bug in prism54
<Keybuk> it could be a combination of factors, after all
<siretart> or it does implement WE19, then it may be a bug in wpasupplicant
<siretart> another bug
<StevenK> doko! You turkey!
<StevenK> doko: It's bad form to remove files in the clean target that you intend to copy in your install target.
<ivoks> um, pitti :)
<pitti> hi ivoks 
<ivoks> last mysql update on breezy broke my mysql-server :)
<pitti> ivoks: uh?
<pitti> I tested it, worked fine for me
<ivoks> it refuses to start...
<ivoks> ok... maybe it's something else, not upgrade
<pitti> ivoks: can you please file a bug with the details?
<pitti> log files, etc.
<pitti> ivoks: if downgrading helps, it's likely a mysql bug
<ivoks> first i'll check logs
<ivoks> no, downgrading doesn't help
<pitti> ivoks: the only change was a refusal to accept NUL characters from queries
<pitti> ivoks: hm, then it's something else
<ivoks> acctully
<siretart> say, wasn't rt2500 the thingy with built in supplicant?
<ivoks> downgrade helps
<ivoks> pitti: ah, everything is ok
<pitti> *phew*
<ivoks> (/me fool instalatted libmysqlclient15off on breezy)
<ivoks> instaled
<ivoks> sorry for false alarm
<ajmitch> evening Hobbsee 
<Hobbsee> hi again ajmitch :P
<StevenK> Hrm.
<StevenK> What suffix should I slam on a tarball-included rebuild?
<siretart> Keybuk: if you want to vomit heartly about n-m/wpasupplicant hating rt2500, I recommend reading https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WifiDocs/RalinkRT2500?action=show&redirect=Rt2500WirelessCardsHowTo
<doko> StevenK: you're ok?
<StevenK> doko: I was looking at why spe FTBFS.
<StevenK> doko: You remove the build dir in the clean target, which is where the docs, changelogs and config files live.
<doko> yes, seen and addressed upstream (who refuses to fix that brokenness)
<StevenK> doko: Ah. Should I not upload 0.8.2a+repack-0ubuntu1?
<doko> StevenK: please do, could you add change the maintainer name to your's?
<Hobbsee> Keybuk: ping?
<Keybuk> Hobbsee: 'sup?
<StevenK> doko: I'm not quite sure I want it. :-)
<Hobbsee> Keybuk: i've just discovered this bug, and am wondering if/when it can be fixed:  https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/kdissert/+bug/41886
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 41886 in kdissert "kdissert_1.0.5.debian.orig.tar.gz  MD5Sum mismatch" [Normal,Confirmed]  
<Keybuk> no idea, when somebody gets around to it
<Hobbsee> Keybuk: i cant fix it, if i cant download it :P
<Keybuk> and figures out why it happened
<Hobbsee> okay, cool
<Keybuk> you can download it
<Hobbsee> from p.u.c?  it still mismatched in size, and wouldnt let me
<StevenK> The .dsc may also have the incorrect information.
<doko> StevenK: anyway, upload it
<StevenK> doko: Leave the Maintainer field alone? I can set it to Debian QA if you like.
<Kamion> Hobbsee: it's probably just a mirroring bug that'll resolve itelf
<Kamion> itself
<Kamion> if not, the launchpad guys are better placed to work out what went wrong
<Kamion> /people/ubuntu-archive => policy and everyday administration, /products/launchpad-publisher (in this case) => infrastructure
<bddebian> Morning folks
<LinuxJones> bddebian: welcome
<Hobbsee> Kamion: gotcha, thanks for the info
<bddebian> Heya LinuxJones
<Kamion> Keybuk: we usually use the -M option when NEWing language packs to avoid mails about them to dapper-changes
<pitti> Kamion: wrt bug 14597, I'd like to add gimp-help-<lang> to language-support-*
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 14597 in gimp "Gimp help files are not installed by default" [Wishlist,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/14597
<pitti> Kamion: however, the English one would land on the CD, and it's 0.5 MB
<Keybuk> Kamion: ah, didn't know about that one :)
<pitti> Kamion: can we afford that? or shall I leave l-s-en alone and just add the non-English ones?
<pitti> Kamion, Keybuk: well, getting to know new langpacks might actually be interesting, as long as it's less than 10
<pitti> Kamion: oh, gim-help-common is an additional 5.6 MB, so it's out of question for the CD
<pitti> Kamion: hm, we had similar problems with other English support packages IIRC; maybe we should remove l-s-en from desktop and isntead just add a subset of l-s-en dependencies
<Kamion> pitti: 0.5MB would be OK, but indeed 6.1MB wouldn't
<Kamion> pitti: perhaps, yes
<doko> dholbach: which package has the strings "Translate this app" and "Get help online"? plus translations
<Treenaks> doko: I think launchpad-integration, or at least, that was the name in breezy
<janimo> doko launchpad-integration ?
<Amaranth> launchpad-integration, yeah
<dholbach> doko: what are you trying to do?
<doko> getting these items translated for OOo
<Treenaks> OOo doesn't just link to l-i ?
<doko> Treenaks: please send a patch for "just link". kthxbye
<Amaranth> Treenaks: OOo is a nightmare, it's not that simple
<pitti> Keybuk: argh, why did you drop 71-dont-fail-without-wpasupplicant.patch?
<Keybuk> pitti: because it's broken
<pitti> Keybuk: that'll break linux-wlan-ng cards completely again :/
<pitti> Keybuk: even that one?
<Keybuk> without wpasupplicant, n-m doesn't actually set the essid
<Keybuk> so we need to depend on wpasupplicant
<Keybuk> which means that patch is pointless
<pitti> Keybuk: no, it works fine
<Keybuk> it doesn't work fine
<Keybuk> it just happened to work for you
<jono> slomo_: ping
<pitti> Keybuk: so it's *not* completely broken
<Keybuk> n-m did nothing with that patch
<pitti> Keybuk: people will have it installed by default anyway
<Keybuk> let's get wpasupplicant fixed instead
<pitti> but with this patch it's at least possible to use n-m without wpasupplicant
<Keybuk> it isn't possible to use n-m without wpasupplicant though
<Keybuk> n-m requires it
<pitti> Keybuk: no, it works for me without
<Keybuk> yes, I considered "works for everyone" over "works for pitti" though ;)
<pitti> Keybuk: I don't see the point - people actively have to uninstall wpasupplicant
<Keybuk> while I appreciate that the linux-wlan-ng stuff does things differently, there was no way of making sure it didn't run wpasupplicant for that while running it for everything else
<pitti> Keybuk: it doesn't work for the Airport Extreme either FWIW
<pitti> and that uses the standard iwconfig stuff
<Keybuk> n-m doesn't do standard iwconfig stuff anymore
<Keybuk> it sends commands to wpasupplicant which does that
<Keybuk> which breaks if wpasupplicant isn't running
<pitti> so, according to your logic, it would breay anyway if wpasupplicant isn't there
<Keybuk> right
<pitti> so what does removing the patch change?
<Keybuk> which is why wpasupplicant has to be a Depends
<Keybuk> because wpasupplicant must be there
<pitti> hmm
<pitti> ok, I guess I need to run a forked version then
<Keybuk> yeah, or patch wpasupplicant to have a linux-wlan-ng driver
<Keybuk> that should be pretty easy
<pitti> well, or I just install ifplugd, that seems considerably easier anyway :-P
<Keybuk> because wpasupplicant was designed to have a bunch of different drivers for different card types
<pitti> Keybuk: can't test it, though, I don't have a l-w-ng card any more
<pitti> (it broke a few months ago)
<Keybuk> hbeh
<Keybuk> so you're bitching when you don't even need this patch anymore yourself? :p
<pitti> Keybuk: I need it for the AE, too
<pitti> wpasupplicant simply doesn't work on my iBook
<Keybuk> have you tried running it from /e/n/i with wpa-driver broadcom ?
<Keybuk> see if that works
<pitti> Keybuk: ok, I'll add that to my TODO and report back
<pitti> Keybuk: hm, and ifconfig will use wpa even for an unencrytped network?
<Keybuk> no, ifconfig only uses wpa for an encrypted network
<pitti> ok, so then that's pointless
<Keybuk> any wpa-* option in /e/n/i activates it
<Keybuk> just set wpa-driver and wpa-ssid to test it
<pitti> Keybuk: oh, hm, latest kernel broke the bcm43xx driver for me completely
<pitti> it's not my day...
<Keybuk> heh
<pitti> Keybuk: so, I just checked again, n-m works flawlessly without wpasupplicant for my home wifi and the AE
<pitti> Keybuk: I'll check with the latest version now
<pitti> oh, it's not built yet
<pitti> I'll check with the latest version once it's in the archive then :)
<Keybuk> ok, that sounds good
<Keybuk> "without wpasupplicant" ?
<Keybuk> then it won't work flawlessly
<pitti> Keybuk: adding wpa-driver broadcom works, too, but ifup eth1 doesn't start it
<Keybuk> you'll find n-m won't actually make any changes
<pitti> Keybuk: dude, it works here
<Keybuk> put a stronger AP right next to it with a different essid
<Keybuk> n-m will make NO ATTEMPT to stop the card switching to that
<Keybuk> seriously
<pitti> yes, I believe you
<Keybuk> I'm not talking out of my arse
<pitti> but that doesn't change the fact that the initial connection and essid switching works
<Keybuk> I have actually read the code, and understood why making n-m not use wpasupplicant is a mistake
<mjg59> Keybuk: Uhm. I'm relatively sure drivers aren't meant to do that.
<Keybuk> no, it doesn't work
<Keybuk> it just happens to work because your card automatically picks that essid anyway
<Keybuk> if your card picked a different one, you'd be sitting here complaining about it
<pitti> dunno, I only have one essid here
<Keybuk> exactly
<Keybuk> I tested this with two
<pitti> all I said was 'it works for me, so it doesn't break completely'
<Keybuk> it does break completely though
<Keybuk> n-m is a tool to *switch* networks
<Keybuk> your patch removed the code that let it switch them
<Keybuk> so it turned n-m into a "strength monitor"
<Keybuk> :)
<Keybuk> I define that as "breaks completely"
<pitti> ok, so let's say, my patch makes n-m only work for one essid
<Keybuk> right, your patch makes n-m only work if you happened to want to join the strongest signal network in your area
<pitti> which is good enough for my purposes, compared to not working at all :)
<Keybuk> and if you never wanted to switch to different networks
<pitti> Keybuk: anyway, please don't take it as an offence, I know that you know what you're doing, I just want to understand the reason
<Keybuk> ok :)
<pitti> Keybuk: yeah, I just switch between my wired and wireless
<Keybuk> the patch was definitely right for n-m 0.5
<Keybuk> because it made n-m use linux-wlan-ng calls to change essid, etc.
<Keybuk> but for 0.6, the patch should be applied to wpasupplicant instead
<Keybuk> because to change essid, etc. n-m just asks wpasupplicant to do it
<Keybuk> whether or not the network is encrypted or not
<pitti> Keybuk: funny. so it sets the first essid on its own, and all the subsequent ones through wpasupplicant? strange code...
<Keybuk> yeah, as far as I can tell
<Keybuk> it's a bit strange in general
<pitti> so this initial setting rescues me
<Keybuk> once the network is configured, it just uses supplicant_send_network_config to adjust it
<Keybuk> it even, afaict, uses that to do scans
<pitti> well, here it detects the essid fine, without wpasupplicant
<pitti> but this again might just be for the first time
<Keybuk> I *think* (this is from trying to trace it with syslog output) that it sets the essid, etc. first, then starts wpasupplicant, and then from then on asks supplicant to make changes
<Keybuk> once it's running, you can't change anything without the supplicant
<Keybuk> (and indeed, it doesn't seem to even notice changes without it)
<mdke> should the documentation team refer to this version of Ubuntu as "Ubuntu 6.06 LTS" or "Ubuntu 6.06", in you guys' opinions?
<mdke> it will result in a fair few string changes at the last minute
<zul> how is it refered to in the release notes?
<mdke> well, that kinda begs the same question
<Keybuk> Ubuntu 6.06 LTS
<mdke> http://releases.ubuntu.com/ uses "LTS"
<bddebian> LTS?
<mvo> long-term-support
<Keybuk> bddebian: Late To Ship
<ogra> bddebian, yes, all installs default to a terminal server now
<mvo> haha
<dieman_> haha
<bddebian> ogra: :-)
<bddebian> Keybuk: Thx
<mdke> Keybuk: it will result in lots of translations breaking, and the translators having to redo things, do you think it's worth making the change so late?
<mdke> it's a shame this has come out so late
<dholbach> mdke: dunno if you noticed, but quite a bunch of stuff is broken in ubuntu-docs (if you run   sudo scrollkeeper-rebuilddb   ) - just wanted to let you know
<mdke> dholbach: thanks, I'll take a look
<dholbach> cool
<mdke> dholbach: oh yeah, that.
<mdke> it's because some of the translators haven't translated certain files yet
<dholbach> ok
<mdke> or, alternatively, because I forgot to include them
<mdke> one or the other.
<mdke> i'll fix it
<mdke> yes, my bad in fact
<hunger> Is the cups http interface supported?
<hunger> It is really nice to have on a server...
<Keybuk> you can enable it if you want it
<hunger> Keybuk: I am asking because modifying printers with it is broken at the moment.
<hunger> Keybuk: I am wondering if I should bugreport that or not.
<janimo> can anyone besides jdub, kick a mail from the moderation queue on u-a?
<mdke> janimo: i think mako can?
<janimo> mdke: thanks.well let's hope he's awake :)
<mdke> janimo: but you can delete the email yourself, right?
<janimo> mdke, ah this time I want it to go through :)
<mdke> oh i see
<janimo> I cancelled the one iwth bogus dl URL in the morning
<dieman_> hmm, only $1350ish to fly to france
<dieman_> no driect flights tho, pfeh
<dieman_> direct
* mdke thinks about swimming it
<dieman> mdke: that'd be tough :)
<mdke> swimming over dry land? yeah
<mdke> doable tho
<dieman> ahh, where are you then?
<dieman> figured you ment from north america or uk
<mdke> well in England. But the last bit is over land
<dieman> heh
<dieman> uk is at least doable
<mdke> the LTS thing is going to be regularly every 3 releases, right?
* mdke is just writing something up for the guides
<dieman> not as far as ive read
<dieman> what ive read so far is it will be picked about 2 releases out when things look right
<dieman> i'd have to find the mail or article i read that though
<mdke> don't worry, I'd like to confirm it with a dev anyway
<mdke> Keybuk: still here?
<mako> mdke: what can i do?
<mdke> mako: janimo wanted a mail pushed through ubuntu-announce
<mako> i can
<mako> we just got a mail this morning complaining that we're overusing that list :)
<mako> what is it about?
<mako> janimo: ^^
<mdke> no idea. If I had to guess, an xubuntu beta release announcement.
<mako> right
<mako> i think it might be nice to sort of batch up announcements.. now that we have so many subproject
<mako> so we don't have to send 6 announcements every week or so
<mako> during the release crunch
* mdke nods
<mdke> mako: you might know the answer to this: is the long term support planned for every 3 releases, or is that flexible.
<mdke> s/./?
<mako> AFAIK, not decided yet
<mako> we certainly plan to do it again
<Surak> hunger, just answering something for you in launchpad against bug #/join #30717
<mdke> right, thanks
<mako> and to make super-releases happen again
<Surak> ops, bug #30717
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 30717 in gnupg2 "gpg-agent is not stopped on logout" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/30717
<mako> every 3 sounds reasonable to me
<mako> but that will ultimately be up to the support team/canonical and the tb i suppose
<mako> seeing how well this one works will almost certainly inform that
<mdke> thanks
<Keybuk> mdke: yup?
<mdke> Keybuk: nm, mako answered. Sorry for bothering ya
<Keybuk> mdke: ah, yeah; there's no schedule for the next one.  It'll be whenever everything seems to stabilise again
<Keybuk> dapper was very much chosen because a lot of the other things, GNOME etc. were reaching a natural feel of stability and taking a breath before adding anything new
<mdke> yeah.
<kagou> anyone know where/how kprinter save configuration for user default printer (not in ~/.cups/lpotions) ? 
<ivoks> .cupsrc?
<ivoks> sorry
<ivoks> it is ./cups/lpoptions
<mdke> ok, I'm adding a small section to the documents about this LTS thing, feedback would be very welcome. http://mdke.org/images/lts.png
<mdke> mdz: ping
<mdz> mdke: yes?
<mdke> mdz: great. Since string freeze has passed, would it be appropriate to ask your permission for a string freeze exception for the documentation?
<mdz> mdke: if it's untranslated, go ahead
<mdz> mdke: if it's translated, you need to explicitly send a request to the translation teams to retranslate
<mdke> sure, it's untranslated, but I'll do that anyway
<mdke> mdz: can you have a look at it for accuracy too? 30 seconds? http://mdke.org/images/lts.png
<mdz> mdke: how about "at least 18 months"?
<mdke> mdz: yes ok
<mdz> then the "However" could be removed and it sounds less contradictory and more complementary
<mdke> good idea, nice
<mdz> mdke: should long-term be hyphenated or no?
<mdke> mdz: I'll look it up :)
<mdz> whatever is most correct stylistically, we should be consistent
<mdz> I think I hyphenated it in the beta announcement
<Kamion> mdz: we sort of skipped over my question in the meeting last night about whether to defer the remaining feature work in ue-partitioning-tool
<Kamion> long-term is hyphenated in British English but IIRC not always in American English - but that's just from memory
<mdz> Kamion: specifically?
<Surak> In breezy, I used the pressed commands languagechooser/language-name=Portuguese kbd-chooser/method=br so it would not need to ask for language stuff in boot. How is this being handled in dapper, as those commands seems to have no effect?
<mdke> mdz: I don't have a problem with that. Both are more than understandable and won't offend anyone
<Kamion> mdz: reorganising the partition menu to offer clear choices about what to do with installations of given operating systems, that sort of thing
<Kamion> mdz: I think it would be good to do it, but OTOH the existing structure will be usable once the bugs are fixed, and I think it's probably more important to get the bugs fixed
<mdz> Kamion: agreed, and to get the existing stuff translated
<mdz> Kamion: how is the advanced partitioner working these days?  one of the reviews made a (useless and vague) comment about it not working
<mdke> mdz: I do tend to think that capitalising "Long-Term Support" looks better, when explaining the abbrevation. what do you think?
<Kamion> Surak: languagechooser/language-name hasn't been really guaranteed to work since hoary or so - use debian-installer/locale=pt_BR or pt_PT or whatever
<mdz> mdke: I think that's appropriate for an acronym, yes
<Kamion> Surak: kbd-chooser/method= should still be right, except that the keyboard name is either br-latin1 or br-abnt2, not br
<Kamion> Surak: however keyboard preseeding may be broken at the moment; there's a bug open
<Surak> Kamion: thanks
<Kamion> mdz: it works if you're wearing soft enough gloves, basically
<mdke> mdz: cool, thanks for your time
<Kamion> mdz: there are a number of known cases where it breaks; particularly, if it was a review of Kubuntu, the KDE frontend's advanced partitioner was really flaky pre-beta2
<Kamion> most noticeable of the bugs is probably that sometimes you have to say no to the confirmation dialog and go around again to get the damn thing to take
<Riddell> you did?
<jcole> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily/current/dapper-install-i386.iso gives an "Incorrect CD-ROM detected" error when trying to install
<nomed> Riddell, i tested today the kubuntu install cd
<G0SUB> infinity: ping
<jcole> ctrl-alt-f4 says "cdrom-detect: The available CD is not an Ubuntu CD!"
<nomed> i had to set amarok to use alsa ..
<infinity> G0SUB: Pong, but I'm (a) incoherent, and (b) heading to bed.
<nomed> was the machine or it's a known issue ?
<G0SUB> infinity: heh, okay ... but take a look at this please https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GUISambaConfigSpec
<Kamion> jcole: how did you burn it to CD?
<kagou> doko around?!
<infinity> G0SUB: I'll poke it tomorrow when I'm more aware of the world.  Thanks.
<Tonio_> hi
<G0SUB> infinity: fine. do I need to send you a reminder mail btw?
<Kamion> jcole: check alt-f4 - I bet there's an error reading from the CD, or similar
<Riddell> nomed: in theory autodetect should work fine
<jcole> Kamion: in nautilus by right clicking it... same error in vmware when pointing to the downloaded iso... md5 looks good, now running the check cd for errors boot option
<infinity> G0SUB: No, it's sitting in a browser, waiting for me to look at it later.
<Kamion> jcole: the file that cdrom-detect keys off to generate that error is definitely in the image; I just checked
<Kamion> I'll sync down the image myself to make sure
<jcole> Kamion: (09:32:36) jcole: ctrl-alt-f4 says "cdrom-detect: The available CD is not an Ubuntu CD!"
<G0SUB> infinity: awesome. thanks a lot!
<Kamion> jcole: above that
<jcole> Kamion: this image is dated 4-46-2006
<Kamion> specifically thinking of kernel errors
<G0SUB> infinity: before reading it tomorrow, do refresh once ... I may make a few changes ... ;)
<jcole> Kamion: errr 4-26
<bddebian> G0SUB: you must remind infinity CONSTANTLY ;-P
* bddebian hides
<Kamion> yes, we had image generation turned off for a couple of days while doing beta2
<G0SUB> bddebian: hehe, infinite times I guess ;)
<Keybuk> *blink*
<Keybuk>          | * network-manager-dev/0.6.2-0ubuntu4/ia64 Component: universe Section: net Priority: OPTIONAL
<Keybuk>          | * network-manager-dev/0.6.2-0ubuntu4/amd64 Component: main Section: net Priority: OPTIONAL
<Keybuk> I didn't even know we need per-arch seeds <g>
<jcole> Kamion: should i download a new image today and try?
<Keybuk> wonder if knetworkmanager has failed to build on ia64 or something
<Kamion> Keybuk: can happen due to the race between queue override and queue accept  ... want me to repair
<Kamion> ?
<Keybuk> Kamion: that package has existed for a while
<Keybuk> I can repair
<Kamion> jcole: there was no build today for the aforementioned reason
<jcole> Kamion: "The CD-ROM integrity test was successful."
<Keybuk> am just doing my nm uploads now you see :p
<nomed> Riddell, it didn't on that acer aspire 1621LM .. i'll file a bug .. but i can't say more then i've done here 
<nomed> system sound was working anyway
* bddebian should probably quite bugging infinity
<Riddell> nomed: thanks
<janimo> mako, so can you please allow that mail out? next release I'll make sure it gets done with the big annoucement
<Surak> Kamion: the keyboard preseed works for dapper-live-amd64 april 24 - I'm just rsyncin' it for today's one.
<Surak> (at least for br-abnt2)
<mako> janimo: sure.. give me a second to finish writing up a talk for later this afternoon
<mako> janimo: will just take a second
<janimo> mako, sure thanks
<Kamion> Surak: nothing relevant changed since
<Kamion> jcole: just tried it, works fine in vmware for me
<phanatic> hi raphink
<Kamion> jcole: actually, the one I tried is 20060427; I guess you could try that
<raphink> hi phanatic
<Kamion> although I've no idea why 20060426 would be broken
<Riddell> Kamion: kde ubiquity is good to merge when appropriate
<Surak> Kamion: in the wikipage UbuntuExpress/CopyFileSystem, the use case " A user has installed extra packages in the live session and wants them to be there in the installed system too.", there's a line where it's stated that "We recommend that the implementor should also attempt to fetch a list of packages installed in the modified live filesystem and install any additional packages over those installed in the unmodified filesystem". 
<jcole> Kamion: i just downloaded 4-27 and it works for me
<jcole> Kamion: thanks
<Surak> I just tried doing that: apt-get installed every pt-XX language pack in ubuntu live session, and disabled the net connection before starting the installation. The language packs were not installed.
<Kamion> Riddell: thanks, doing
<Kamion> Surak: yeah, I haven't done that bit
<Kamion> Surak: seems a nice-to-have but not critical, to me
<Kamion> and kind of relies on the .debs still being in /var/cache/apt/archives, or you *not* pulling out the plug on the network, for sanity
<Surak> Kamion: thought so. It's not important anyway, ubiquity can just download them again.
<Kamion> that one wasn't meant for language packs anyway, more for e.g. "I installed inkscape in the live CD and then installed, and now I have to install it again?"
<Kamion> that sort of thing
<Surak> This is discussed on wiki, and I agree that this can lead to inconsistent installations.
<nomed> Kamion, so ubiquity copies the ro mount point (squashfs) ?
<bddebian> Gah.. Anyone else having issues with ftp.debian.org?
<Treenaks> bddebian: signatures not checking out? yeah
<Surak> nomed: take a look at the rationale at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuExpress/CopyFileSystem
<Treenaks> bddebian: just apt-get update twice, then it'll work
<bddebian> Treenaks: I'm just trying to pull a package with wget :-(
<bddebian> Oh, hmm, it says the file doesn't exist..
<bddebian> But it's on packages.d.o
<mdz> infinity: around?
<infinity> mdz: Yes, but don't tell Zofia.  I'm meant to be in bed.
<Kamion> nomed: yes
<Keybuk> Kamion: got a few minutes?  if so, could you look over
<Kamion> Surak: actually the point of copying the read-only f was that it led to *consistent* installations
<Keybuk> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArchiveAdministration
<Keybuk> for me
<Kamion> fs
<nomed> i've seen it :) .. thanks
<Kamion> Keybuk: about to have dinner, but I'll look later - at a quick glance, looks good
<Keybuk> ok
<Keybuk> trying to free up some space on my whiteboard ;)
<infinity> Keybuk: Nice writeup.
<infinity> Keybuk: FWIW, I intend to make syncs slightly less voodoo shortly.
<Surak> Kamion: indeed. What I meant was that if we copied the modified filesystem, it could lead to inconsistencies. (which I agree)
<Kamion> Surak: right
<Kamion> installing individual packages over the top is inherently rather safer, but involves some code :)
<Kamion> Riddell: watch out for UNRELEASED versions in debian/changelog, you don't need to create new versions above those ;)
<Kamion> Riddell: it would be helpful if you'd mark your own not-yet-uploaded versions as UNRELEASED in the same way I do
<Kamion> otherwise, will merge after dinner, thanks
<LaserJock> Keybuk: cool, I see one of mine in there (gausssum) :-)
<Keybuk> LaserJock: heh, probably because it's in the new queue at the moment and I just pasted examples
<LaserJock> Keybuk: yeah, now I know it made it for sure ;-)
<truz24> LaserJock, getting that research done?
<LaserJock> truz24: hehe, sure ;-)
<LaserJock> I'll have my PhD in 2020 at this rate
<jsgotangco> hi sabdfl
<sabdfl> hy guys
<sabdfl> hey
<sabdfl> colin charles says hi to everyone
<sivang> hey sabdfl 
<jsgotangco> ColinCharlesQueue !
<sivang> jsgotangco: he a edubuntu guy?
<jsgotangco> no he works at MySQL AB
<jsgotangco> he did some work with IOSN too
<sivang> jsgotangco: ah , cool
<Riddell> Kamion: hmm yes, how silly of me
<mdz> infinity: forgot to ask you at the meeting about the rebuild test
<infinity> mdz: yes, but dholbach asked. :)
<infinity> mdz: It's firing up in earnest tomorrow, with sparc and hppa blocking on an RT request (the other 4 should be building tomorrow when I get up, however)
<mdz> infinity: yes, he did, and you said "it's being turned on" and I made a note to ask for more detail
<infinity> mdz: Ahh. :)
<mdz> thanks
<jcole> i noticed the netboot stuff on the ubuntu install cd under /install, but can't figure out what boot option it is to install via netboot
<thom> infinity: you ought to update the description of xorg-driver-fglrx to mention x1xxx support, i guess
<infinity> thom: You ought to file a bug as a reminder for when I'm awake. ;)
<jcole> under /install/netboot/ubuntu-installer/i386 specifically
<jcole> the netboot kernel and netboot initrd is all there
<jcole> "This is an installation netboot image for Ubuntu 6.06, built on 20051026ubuntu30."
<fabbione> mdz: sparc autotest is running here too, so even if DC is busy i can manage it.. probably quicker
<Keybuk> infinity: but we need it fixed before release! :D
<Keybuk> (brb)
<bddebian> Kamion: You made comments on this one, should it be rejected?  Bug #37138
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 37138 in localechooser "Location ignored" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/37138
<jcole> Kamion: i figured out why it does that
<jcole> Kamion: if you have a second cd drive, the ubuntu installer looks for the files on it
<jcole> Kamion: in vmware, make 2 cdrom drives on the secondary, make the ubuntu install cd the master (ide1:0), and any other cd the slave (ide1:1)
<jcole> Kamion: make sure both drives are connected at power on
<jcole> Kamion: cdrom-detect is looking at the slave cd instead of the master cd
<jcole> Kamion: it will fail
<thom> heh, fglrx segfaults in xf86XVScreenInit
<thom> winner
<mjg59> fglrx is offensive to man and animal
<bddebian> heh
<thom> mjg59: yes, but unless we can get arlied's patches in, my X1800 has to run in VESA
<mjg59> Unfortunate
<mjg59> My god, it links!
<fabbione> thom: are those patches in the ati-1.0-stable branch?
<mjg59> fabbione: No
<fabbione> ok
<fabbione> i will talk to him to see how bad they are
<thom> infinity: bug #41945 , anyway
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 41945 in linux-restricted-modules-2.6.15 xorg-driver-fglrx "Segfault on startup with X1800XL" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/41945
<dholbach> good bye fellas
<AlinuxOS> hello all dear people :)
<bddebian> Hello AlinuxOS
<AlinuxOS> hank you for beta2 ;)
<AlinuxOS> it rocks :) in georgian :D
<bddebian> Don't thank me, I'm just a peon. :-)
<mdz> fabbione: strace attached to the bug now
<fabbione> mdz: ok thanks
<mdz> hmm
<mdz> fabbione: in the old log, the thing which comes next in the log is checking the outputs
<mdz> (--) NV(0): CRTC 0 is currently programmed for TV
<mdz> (II) NV(0): Using TV on CRTC 0
<mdz> so it may be related to TV out
<fabbione> hold on....
<fabbione>        Option "CrtcNumber" "integer"
<fabbione>               GeForce2  MX,  nForce2,  Quadro4, GeForce4, Quadro FX and GeForce FX may have two video outputs.  The driver attempts to
<fabbione>               autodetect which one the monitor is connected to.  In the case that autodetection picks the wrong one, this  option  may
<fabbione>               be used to force usage of a particular output.  The options are "0" or "1".  Default: autodetected.
<mdz> should I try CrtcNumber 0?
<fabbione> try one and the other...
<mdz> I am getting a lot of exercise running up and down stairs
<fabbione> if none of them work we need to check what's in CVS
<mdz>         Option          "CrtcNumber" "0"
<mdz> in the Device section, right?
<fabbione> mdz: what about moving the laptop downstair?
<fabbione> yes after Driver nv
<mdz> write(0, "(II) NV(0): I2C device \"DDC:ddc2\" removed.\n", 43) = 43
<mdz> write(0, "(II) NV(0):   ... none found\n", 29) = 29
<mdz> write(0, "(--) NV(0): CRTC 0 is currently programmed for TV\n", 50) = 50
<mdz> write(0, "(**) NV(0): Forcing CRTCNumber 0 as specified\n", 46) = 46
<mdz> write(0, "(II) NV(0): Using TV on CRTC 0\n", 31) = 31
<mdz> then hang
<fabbione> ok so detection work
* fabbione checksout from cvs
<mdz> next thing after that in the old log is (--) NV(0): VideoRAM: 65536 kBytes
<fabbione> that shouldn't be an issue
<fabbione> memory is always detected
<mdz> gah, maximum mount count
<mdz> fabbione: if you can tell me a good breakpoint I can gdb it
<mdz> and step until it hangs
<fabbione> mdz: eh.. i need a few minutes to look at the code again. Last time i hacked nv was for warty
<mdz> where is the -dbg now? it's not xserver-xorg-dbg anymore
<mdz> looks like there isn't a debug package anymore
<janimo> mako__: around?
<fabbione> mdz: NVCommonSetup
<fabbione> mdz: that's the one that prints the TV stuff in the log
<fabbione> so it might be a good entry point
<fabbione> mdz: apparently there is no -dgb
<mdz> fabbione: ok, it makes it to NVCommonSetup OK
* fabbione would like to have a 100KG clue bat
<fabbione> mdz: step into it.. let see if it dies there or later
<mdz> ok I single stepped a bunch
<mdz> and it seems to crash inside nvcommonsetup
<fabbione> it's a long function
<fabbione> ah
<fabbione> ok
<mdz> 0xb7977ef8 in NVSetStartAddress () from /usr/lib/xorg/modules/drivers/nv_drv.so
<mdz> (gdb)
<mdz> Single stepping until exit from function NVSetStartAddress,
<mdz> which has no line number information.
<mdz> 0xb79786b1 in NVCommonSetup () from /usr/lib/xorg/modules/drivers/nv_drv.so
<mdz> (gdb)
<mdz> Single stepping until exit from function NVCommonSetup,
<mdz> which has no line number information.
<mdz> and hang
<mdz> it calls NVSetStartAddress a bunch of times though
<fabbione> void NVSetStartAddress (
<fabbione>     NVPtr   pNv,
<fabbione>     CARD32 start
<fabbione> )
<fabbione> {
<fabbione>     pNv->PCRTC[0x800/4]  = start;
<fabbione> }
<fabbione> it's called only once from the nv driver
<fabbione> is that i386 or amd64?
<mdz> i386
<fabbione> i wonder if forcing the /4 allignement on the buffer might create issues
<mdz> I pasted my gdb session into the bug
<fabbione> we can try building a non stripped nv driver
<fabbione> and see if gdb is more friendly
<mdz> ok, if you can attach one to the bug I will do it monday
<mdz> need to get back to work today
<fabbione> mdz: well it's work this too :)
<mdz> fabbione: yes, but I have work which is due today
<fabbione> mdz: of course.. but i can't really see how that SetStartAddress can fail
<vlad> good evening
<darius_> After upgrading from 5.10 to 6.06 Beta, system CPU consumption average 20-50% while system is idle (as reported by top and vmstat).  None of the individual processes are reported as eating this resources.  Can anyone tell how I could collect useful information for a bug report?
<G0SUB> I have written a Spec for a GUI config tool for SAMBA, is anybody willing to take a look?
<darius_> This is causing my laptop to run hot (fan is running faster) and I really hope it doesn't persist through the Dapper release
<G0SUB> darius_: what does top report?
<vlad> doko: can I ask for little help regarding eclipse-pydev package?
<darius_> top shows ~ 10 - 15% use in sys
<darius_> 15-20% use in user
<darius_> but no process is even close to eating up these kinds of resources
<mdz> darius_: it may be many short-lived processes, which would explain them not showing up in top
<G0SUB> strange
<darius_> vmstat shows similar info.  atsar does not however
<darius_> can I paste here?
<G0SUB> darius_: pastebin.com
<doko> vlad: sure
<darius_> http://pastebin.com/687563
<darius_> vmstat/top and atsar don't seem to line up at all
<vlad> doko: do we want 1.0.6 in Dapper?
<doko> vlad: didn't look at the release notes. is it worth the effort from you point of view?
<fabbione> mdz: the only big changes from breezy nv and dapper nv are the rupport for RandR (that we can try to disable) and some hw initialization code, that looks pretty much the problem you are having. The code is very well isolate but there are no frigging comments on it. 
<darius_> Is there a way to monitor the launch of all new processes?
<mdz> you could use process accounting, but usually if you run ps enough times you can catch something
<vlad> doko: there's plenty of new features. seems that Fabio is taking it seriously
<Amaranth> anyone know the status of bug 30557 ?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 30557 in linux-source-2.6.15 "cpu idle time in /proc/stat wrong" [Normal,Needs info]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/30557
<Amaranth> seems pretty bad
<doko> vlad: I currently cannot spend time on the package, so you would have to prepare and test it. could you make your package available on REVU?
<darius_> Is there any way to know if Ubuntu labs are testing against the same model of laptop that I have?
<tseng> read the LaptopTesting wiki page
<vlad> doko: I see, actually I do not have anything ready yet. moreover I have some difficulties with that.
<vlad> doko: so I would say lets stick with 1.0.3
<G0SUB> vlad: why don't you update off the net?
<doko> vlad: maybe a better idea for edgy. you could still make the package available outside the repository for dapper without pressure.
<darius_> Amaranth: wow, that bug may be my same problem.
<Amaranth> probably
<vlad> G0SUB: ?? do you mean why don't I fetch binaries from the project home?
<vlad> doko: still, I have a question. I asked Fabio to release the sources in a zip together with each version and he kindly agreed. the problem is that the sources contain compiled jars and other stuff.
<vlad> doko: can I just delete it from the original .zip and pretend that it had never been there?
<bddebian> ANyone in here on the main side deal with mdbtools?
<vlad> doko: I mean by this act the original sources won't be "original" anymore.
<doko> vlad: you have to remove the non-free jars, you can leave the others
<Kamion> bddebian: no, #37138 should stay open please; even though I disagree with exactly what the reporter's suggesting, our handling of his situation should be improved
<bddebian> Kamion: OK
<Kamion> jcole: ah, right, that's a long-known bug, basically bug 9172
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 9172 in cdrom-detect "installer doesn't find the installation cd in the 2nd ide drive" [Normal,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/9172
<Kamion> Riddell: merged and pushed, thanks; will probably upload shortly
<vlad> doko: one more ... the sources contained in the .zip are ending with \r\n. should I leave it as it is or substitute it?
<nomed> Mithrandir, around ?
<doko> vlad: what's easier for you
<nomed> i see in casper "hack to stop xscreensaver locking the screen"
<nomed> and then bug 7150
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 7150 in tetex-base tetex-extra "could not be removed when postinst didn't run" [Unknown,Unknown]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/7150
<nomed> i guess it's not a malone bug .. what else could it be?
<Kamion> bugzilla.ubuntu.com
<Kamion> from before we moved to malone
<nomed> k thanks
<Mithrandir> nomed: yes, why?
<Kamion> https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=7150 has a redirecting link which ends up at https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/xscreensaver/+bug/13497
<Ubugtu> Ubuntu bug 7150 in xscreensaver "Locked password on live CD interferes with screen lock" [Normal,Reopened]  
<Mithrandir> nomed: oh, well, what Colin says.
<nomed> Mithrandir, nothing special .. just playing with casper .. and i sow that
<nomed> Mithrandir, at the moment i have patched it in a way it's possible to set HOST and USERNAME 
<nomed> from a conf.d script
<nomed> same for a black-initlist 
<Mithrandir> black-initlist?
<nomed> i guess it can't go in dapper .. but aybe it could be an idea for dapper + 1
<nomed> Mithrandir, ex ..
<nomed> xubuntu doesn't need 22gnome_panel_data
<vlad> doko: so generally speaking the changes to the "original" sources are completely legal as far as I do not change anything really important. the important things go to dpatch. right?
<nomed> export blacklist="22gnome_panel_data \ ..
<nomed> conf/conf.d/00blacklist
<Kamion> wouldn't it be neater just to make 22gnome_panel_data be a no-op if the relevant bits aren't installed?
<Kamion> it's not as if the script is big, or as if the overhead of running it is large
<nomed> Kamion, yes ..
<Mithrandir> nomed: basically what Colin says; any script giving errors when the relevant package isn't installed or similar is buggy and should just be fixed.
<nomed> but such thing could help derivatives i guess
<nomed> but i get what you mean
<Mithrandir> if you can come up with a use case for it where you're not working around a bug, I'll certainly consider it.
<nomed> Mithrandir, but this may take time ..
<Mithrandir> the user and host parts would be nice to get, though.
<nomed> panel_version=$(chroot /target /usr/bin/dpkg-query -W --showformat='${Version}'
<nomed> Mithrandir, that's done
<Mithrandir> nomed: it shouldn't take noticably much time.
<nomed> Mithrandir, i see it changes root two time on that script ..
<bddebian> Should a new package request be in LP?
<Kamion> bddebian: if it amounts to a sync request, yes; if it requires changes, just upload it
<bddebian> Kamion: I don't believe it's in Debian either.  Bug #37628
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 37628 in language-support-sk "missing spellcheckers" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/37628
<Kamion> nomed: chroot() is not especially expensive
<Kamion> bddebian: as good a place for it as any - I don't think there's any other place to put it that doesn't amount to forgetting about it
<nomed> Kamion, true 
<nomed> but if it may be supprted custom HOST and USERNAME ..
<bddebian> Kamion: Even UniverseCandidates?
<nomed> why not to add a blacklist?
<nomed> probably a (k|x)ubuntu-casper pkge could be needed in that case (?)
<Mithrandir> nomed: I prefer to add features because they serve some case, not just because they're neat, so it'd make it a lot easier for you to get your changes into dapper proper if you could give me some convincing use cases.
<Mithrandir> nomed: saying that "some package might want to use it" is a bit weak..
<Kamion> bddebian: if it's already been moved to there, it would be OK to close the bug and tell the user to subscribe to that wiki page if they're interested, I guess. I don't think we should be keen to close bugs that are, well, actually bugs though
<nomed> Mithrandir, sure .. what i'll do is to send you two different patches
<Kamion> nomed: I can't think of any case where a script couldn't just guard its contents with [ -f /target/some/file/it/needs ] 
<Mithrandir> nomed: please do just use bzr and publish your changes somewhere, it makes it easier for me to merge off you later too.
<bddebian> A wishlisht package request is a "bug"? :-)
<Mithrandir> nomed: there's a .bzr directory in the source package.
<nomed> Mithrandir, easier for me too :)
<Kamion> bddebian: the bug (a wishlist bug, admittedly) is that Slovak users do not have spell checking available
<bddebian> BTW, I just confirmed it and added a link to UniverseCandidates :)
<Kamion> even though it's available
<Mithrandir> nomed: thanks. :-)
<Kamion> bddebian: I prefer to look at what the bug actually is rather than the form it takes :)
<bddebian> Kamion: ?
<bddebian> Heya \sh
<\sh> morning bddebian
* bddebian wants to purge the X11R6 dir from history
* LaserJock tosses his "X11R6 be gone" wand over to bddebian 
<jcole> m$ has released their own ubuntu
<jcole> "Microsoft Corp. is targeting Africa with a lower-priced version of the Windows operating system that will work on cheaper machines and have Africa-themed screensavers and background wallpaper among its features." - http://www.businessweek.com/ap/financialnews/D8H92B4O1.htm
<jcole> very thoughtful and kind of them to do so
<highvoltage> what happened to Gnubuntu?
<ompaul> highvoltage, try joining the channel
<highvoltage> ok
#ubuntu-devel 2006-05-04
<wasabi> synpatic should totally launch dpkg with nice 20
<toresbe> wasabi: I'm not sure it helps much, unless the I/O scheduler takes nice values into consideration
<toresbe> wasabi: dpkg is far more I/O- than CPU-intensive.
<wasabi> It helped a bit for me.
<mdke_> evening
<bddebian> Howdy peoples
<bddebian> Isn't python2.1 supposed to be gone?
<mdz> bddebian: only if nothing depends on it anymore
<mdz> (and some things still depend on it)
<bddebian> 12 of 15 of which are python2.1-xxxx
<mdz> I think jython or one of the other such weird things is still at 2.1
<bddebian> jython and pychecker are the only 2 non-obvious ones I see
<bddebian> Gah, jython is orphaned in Debian
<Amaranth> mgalvin: Can I have some of that Ubuntu? :)
<mgalvin> Amaranth: sure, come on over! plently to go around :)
<Amaranth> Sure, just let me put some gas in my jet.
<mgalvin> :)
<bddebian> Heya LaserJock
<LaserJock> hi bddebian 
<bddebian> I say we morgue jython
<bddebian> Java sucks anyway :-)
<LaserJock> really?
<LaserJock> yeah, it is to bad
<bddebian> Last official release was 2001
<LaserJock> well, I use Fortran77 so...
<bddebian> Fortran r0x :-)
<LaserJock> heck yeah, but I'm getting more into Python now
<bddebian> mdz: If we morgued jython and ripped python2.1 out of pychecker, you think we could morgue python2.1* ?
<LaserJock> bddebian: does jython depend on python2.1?
<bddebian> LaserJock: Yes and only 2.1 :-(
<LaserJock> ouch
<mgalvin> on that note... how about sending fam to the morgue... i had a co-worker try to install it which tried to remove ubuntu-desktop, gamin replaces it anyway
<mgalvin> Bug #41957
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 41957 in fam "fam tries to remove ubuntu-desktop" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/41957
<bddebian> There is a 2.2a of jython listsed on sourceforge but its in .jar format :-(
<bddebian> mgalvin: Oh, that's ugly
<mgalvin> yea very
<bddebian> I get the same result :-(
<bddebian> Hmm, there is a new release in Debian though
<mgalvin> i have another oddity too, try installing nagios-pgsql on ubuntu-server, it will try to install laptop-detect (gotta file a bug on that)
<bddebian> Hang on, let me hit my server installed machine
<bddebian> Hmm shix, laptop-detect is already on that machine?? :-(
<bddebian> And trying to remove that sucker tries to remove everything too
<mgalvin> hehe, lemme see if reproduce it here
<mdz> bddebian: if doko agrees that jython should be removed, and someone is willing to rip out the 2.1 support from python2.1-*, sure
<mgalvin> bddebian: na its already installed on my machine too, i am downloading a -server daily now so i will try it again in a bit
<bddebian> mdz: If pychecker is in universe I'll rip it out
<bddebian> doko: ping?
<mdz> bddebian: if it depends on 2.1, it must be in universe (since python2.1 is)
<bddebian> Oh heh
<bddebian> mdz: Would I be safe in doing that now anyway or would that be a no-no?
<mdz> pychecker doesn't seem to be an issue; it just has a weird alternative dependency for some reason (it should just depend on python)
<mdz> as for the modules, if jython is dead then they're of little use
<mdz> I did discuss this with doko earlier in the release cycle, and he seemed to believe that jython might be resurrected, so we didn't ditch 2.1 at that time
<mdz> it would be worthwhile to get his opinion before starting
<bddebian> OK, I'll go back to other bugs then
<bddebian> Egads, why are we so far behind on libmailtools-perl?
<zul> heylo
<bddebian> What's the best way to tell if a package has been morgued or removed from Ubuntu?
<bddebian> apt-cache madison and apt-cache policy both puke for psemu-video-x11 is that enough to say that it isn't there?
<zul> bddebian: whats dholbach said about subscribing dead packages to?
<bddebian> zul: I have been sending them to ubuntu-archive :-)
<zul> okie dokie
<lifeless> wow, quiet today
<lifeless> ogra: screen saver seems copacetic now
<zul> yeah it is lifeless
<bddebian> haha
<bddebian> Heya lifeless
<bddebian> OK, my network is REALLY starting to piss me off
<bddebian> Heya tritium
<tritium> hello bddebian.  how are you?
<bddebian> OK man, you?
<tritium> Doing well, thanks.
<zyga> hello
<Tonio_> hello
<slomo__> Diziet: ping?
<G0SUB> infinity: ping
<sivang> morning all
<zyga> morning sivang
<zyga> morning mvo
<mvo> hello zyga!
<vlad> I would like to ask a general question: is it good to have buttons bound to 1 accelerator key (&Close, &Custom...) in 1 dialog?
<vlad> I mean 2 buttons bound to 1 key.
<zyga> guys, what should I do when dpkg-divert actions are broken, any policy hints on how to proceed?
<nomed> Kamion, around ?
<nomed> what's the casper bzr i should monitor ?
<nomed> ubiquity ?
<nomed> or it may change 
<TheMuso> nomed: If you want to monitor casper itself, you want http://people.ubuntu.com/~tfheen/bzr/casper/trunk
<TheMuso> ubiquity's bzr tree can likely be found in Kamion's bzr archives.
<nomed> TheMuso, yep 
<nomed> but Kamion has many branches ..
<nomed> from what i've seen it seems he's working on casper-ubiquity
<TheMuso> Right.
<zyga> what is casper and ubiquity?
<TheMuso> casper sets up the live CD at boot.
<TheMuso> ubiquity is the new name for the Ubuntu Live CD GUI installer.
<zyga> ah
<zyga> I thought that was some experimental bzr branch
<lool> hi there, is there a place for casper's upstream source or is it simply the Ubuntu archive?  (the package is native, and the copyright lists no URL)
<crimsun> in the archive, yes
<lool> ok, thanks
<nomed> lool, cd casper
<nomed> bzr log
<lool> nomed: I'm looking at the binary deb right now, not at the source package
<highvoltage> hi vuntz 
<highvoltage> how are things with pessulus?
<vuntz> hi highvoltage
<vuntz> there's a nice little patch in bugzilla to allow some extensions
<vuntz> and I hope there'll be a SoC project for GNOME lockdown
<vuntz> so all in all, I think things are going well :-)
<highvoltage> hehe. kids working on code that will be used to lock them down at school :)
<highvoltage> nice, good to hear.
<_ion> highvoltage: Well, that's a good way to get a backdoor in. ;-)
<highvoltage> _ion: OMG, you read minds!?
<highvoltage> :p
<darius_> http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/dapper/main/binary-i386/Packages.bz2: MD5Sum mismatch
<darius_> http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/dapper/multiverse/binary-i386/Packages.bz2: MD5Sum mismatch
<Nafallo> hi all :-)
<Nafallo> anyone with main rights want to fix a bug (debdiff attached)?
<Znarl> darius_ : That will be fixed in a few minutes.
<darius_> great, thanx
<Znarl> darius_ : Fixed now.
<Lure_> Kamion: sorry - I think I am doing bug triage on same bugs as you... ;-)
<mdke> jdub: ping
<mdke> smurf: ping
<Kamion> nomed: I have some random branches, but Tollef's trunk branch is the master one
<Kamion> Lure_: as long as you don't mark bugs as duplicates when they aren't, I don't mind ;-)
<jdub> mdke: pong
<Kamion> you seem to be reasonably good at checking the tracebacks though
<Kamion> Lure_: I was a bit worried about the crash bugs you closed because it worked for you now, since there was no detail about exactly what the crashes were
<Kamion> I'd have preferred to get explicit confirmation with beta 2
<Kamion> Lure_: at this point I am much less worried about having lots of spurious bugs open than I am about missing a crash case, so in general I'd prefer to err on the side of leaving bugs open
<Kamion> obvious duplicates are fine of course
<Lure_> Kamion: ok, point taken - those were the crash caused by dialog bug in PyKDE which Riddell fixed for Beta2
<Kamion> Lure_: ... probably
<Kamion> I mean, you're probably right, it's just hard to be sure :)
<Lure_> Kamion: agree - will request confirmation in future and mark as Needs Info
<mdke> jdub: great. Can you look for a mail from Christer Edwards, it seems he has been waiting for some weeks for a mailing list for his locoteam (utah)
<jdub> mdke: yeah, saw
<jdub> thanks
<mdke> jdub: thanks
<mdke> jdub: you subscribe to loco-contacts?
<jdub> mdke: yeah
<mdke> jdub: ah good. Perhaps that should be made the place for people to request mailing lists?
<jdub> mdke: it's done in RT
<Kamion> Lure_: noting for instance bug 41883 which looks very similar log-wise but postdates Jonathan's dialog fix
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 41883 in ubiquity "Kubuntu 6.06 Beta 2 Live installer crashes in language selection" [Normal,Needs info]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/41883
<jdub> mdke: (and mailman is directed there)
<jdub> except it's screwed with spam atm :|
<mdke> jdub: well, that's not generally known. I'm thinking it would be good to have a place for new locos to go and ask for a list. loco-contacts would fit the bill
<jdub> mdke: it is generally known and documented
<Lure_> Kamion: right, this seems like pykde bug (maybe another left use of that dialog?), but the other two were on the same step and on Beta1
<mdke> jdub: if you say so :-(
<Lure_> Kamion: but you are right about being cautions, but we need to tell them at least to try again with Beta2 
* Kamion goes around upgrading ubiquity crash bugs to major so that he can try to blitz through them on Tuesday
<mdke> jdub: currently the wiki says to email you
<jdub> mdke: i changed all references i found when we switched - if you find others, please change them
<jdub> mdke: mailman@lists.ubuntu.com
<mdke> jdub: there is only one page which documents setting up a locoteam to my knowledge. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoTeamHowto
<G0SUB> infinity: back?
<jdub> mdke: having moved from pyblosxom to wordpress, i really recommend it :-)
<mdke> jdub: I kinda wanted to avoid mysql... so far pyblosxom seems really rather nice. What were your reasons for moving away?
<jdub> mdke: (i stuck with pyblosxom for so long, because i knew i could hold out for something to migrate to, and when i did, it would be harder to migrate away from pretty much anything other than pyblosxom)
<jdub> wanted something a bit less DIY
<jdub> but was happy with DIY until i found something worth moving to ;)
<mdke> ah, fair enough. I'll try the DIY, and see how much I can reduce it with plugins
<mdke> installing it wasn't much hassle
<jdub> it's pretty sweet
<jdub> http://www.gnome.org/~jdub/2003/sweetpyblosxomhacks/
<mdke> oh, i see: you're recommending pyblosxom, rather than wordpress? even better :)
<jdub> ^ some stuff i used
<jdub> oh, i liked it, but i use wp now
<mdke> gotcha
<mdke> well, about an hour after posting to planet about wanting to migrate, some guy replied with a script
<mdke> gotta love planet
<jdub> yay lazyweb ;)
<highvoltage> mdke: watch out for things like spam protection, i moved to wordpress yesterday because it became too big a job to remove spam from my old blog
* jdub never turned comments on with pyblosxom ;)
<mdke> I might keep em off too. there's a "contact" tab on my website
* Kamion larts bddebian
<Kamion> damn, not here
<freeflying> Kamion: attach syslog to bug 42024
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 42024 in grub-installer "Fail to install grub if you choose Chinese when you install beta2" [Major,Needs info]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/42024
<G0SUB> can somebody review the spec I wrote for a SAMBA GUI config tool?
<Kamion> freeflying: I read mail, no need to tell me by IRC as well, thanks
<freeflying> Kamion: got it, sorry for bothering u :)
<G0SUB> Kamion: what's the standard way of proposing a new spec?
<Kamion> G0SUB: no idea
<jsgotangco> create a spec page in launchpad
<Kamion> sure, but I have no idea what the usual process for going through those at the start of a conference is
<jsgotangco> ah right
<Kamion> I assumed G0SUB meant proposing it for consideration by the core development team
<G0SUB> yes
<Kamion> otherwise just do it as jsgotangco say
<Kamion> s
<jsgotangco> G0SUB: if the spec is worth discussing it'll get easily noticed by core dev for sure
<jsgotangco> just look at live support chat page
<G0SUB> infinity told me that he will review it before I propose it officially, but I guess he got busy
<G0SUB> jsgotangco: hmm, right
<G0SUB> jsgotangco: the spec is ready https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GUISambaConfigSpec
<G0SUB> Kamion: can you tell me who is handling Google Summer of Code in Ubuntu?
<Kamion> G0SUB: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-announce/2006-April/000070.html
<G0SUB> well, I wanted to know who are mentoring ...
<Kamion> the above mail says "Feel free to contact me if you require any further information."
<jsgotangco> you'll get better answers from JaneW
<Kamion> it doesn't say "Feel free to contact anyone on #ubuntu-devel" ;-)
<G0SUB> Kamion: heh, sorry :)
<G0SUB> but the mentors would be the people hanging around here ... so I asked. :)
<Kamion> JaneW is the coordinator, contact her
<G0SUB> okay.
<doko> infinity, Kamion: please could ack new -l10n and -help OOo binary packages from NEW?
<infinity> G0SUB: Not so much that I got busy as it's a weekend, and I'm attempting to practice some work/computer avoidance for the sake of my sanity.
<infinity> G0SUB: It's not really so urgent that it can't wait until Monday, so I'll poke you about it then.
<pitti> infinity: despite that you're still awake late :)
<infinity> Shush.  I'm going to bed right now.
<infinity> (being dragged would be a more accurate description)
<ivoks> pitti: i would like to work on spec for easy printing sharing
<ivoks> pitti: (the one you started)
<pitti> infinity: sleep well
<pitti> ivoks: yay
<ivoks> pitti: but last change i did on that wiki was erased
<ivoks> (i'm not sure how the thing with specs go...)
<G0SUB> infinity: oh, okay. no problems :)
* Chipzz grins
<Chipzz> "BOFH Excuse #441: Hash table has woodworm"
<Chipzz> :P
<sladen> Hash table has the munches
<sfllaw> Ah yes.  The munchies.
<mdke> mmmmm food
<Kamion> doko: when I'm back at work
<zul> heylo
<nomed> Kamion, ping 
<nomed> is there any part of ubiquity where the username is hardcoded ?
<Arvin> salut
<Arvin> est ce qu'on peut garder son /home breezy s'il ont veux installer Dapper beta2?
<nomed> i suppose there is not .. but just to be sure
<nomed> well .. and i mean livecd username
<mdke> Arvin: #ubuntu-fr?
<Arvin> oui je sais
<Lathiat> is it just me - or does the beta2 installer, after copying all the .debs off the cd
<Lathiat> extract the templates from the packages off the cd rather than on the hdd
<joelbryan> anyone have problems with the netstatus applet not working correctly?
<joelbryan> I just filed a bug that fix that, Bug #42100
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 42100 in ubuntu-meta ubuntu-desktop "Fix the wrong device registered in netstatus applet, and automatically set it to the first working network connection." [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/42100
<bmonty> do I need to get the archive team involved to remove a binary package from the archive after I have uploaded a new source package that eliminates the binary?
<crimsun> bmonty: traditionally I've asked Kamion to remove a package, not sure if wiki/DeveloperResources has updated info on protocol
<bmonty> thanks crimsun
<Laser_away> bmonty: yeah, file a bug and subscribe archive team
<robertj> hey all, has anyone here experienced fading to black while in a full-screen OpenGL game?
<robertj> it happens even while playing
<Nafallo> robertj: could be the screensaver kicking in. there are numerous bugreports on launchpad about that.
<robertj> Nafallo: that's what I thought
<Nafallo> is /dev/md0p1 supposed to be automagically created when I add it to the partition table or do I have to do something else? like... file a bug? :-)
<wasabi_> Hmmm. Something has made vmware kernel module compile break.
<wasabi_> include/asm/alternative.h:7: error: syntax error before u8
<wasabi_>  heh
<robertj> btw, does anyone think it's kinda silly that we export home directories via samba default & read only?
* robertj files bug #42110
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 42110 in samba "home directories should be writable by default" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/42110
<Nafallo> robertj: ehrm, last time I installed samba they where if you logged in with the correct user.
<Nafallo> (I think)
<robertj> Nafallo: my install isn't too old
<Nafallo> robertj: I'll do one now and see...
<robertj> Nafallo: I can take a look in the src
<robertj> oh default is in  /usr/share/samba/smb.conf anyway
<robertj> and writable is still no
<Nafallo> robertj: hmm, right.
<robertj> rcorsairsuray
<\sh> moins
<robertj> cats...
<mxpxpod> does anyone here have network manager working on an airport extreme?
<bddebian> Hello
<bddebian> Kamion: ping?
<sivang> hey bddebian 
<bddebian> Heya sivang
<sivang> bddebian: what's up? how things are breaking? :)
<bddebian> sivang: I guess I am irritating Kamion..
<sivang> bddebian: so did I , with my buggings about getting upbackup out of NEW :)
<zul_> bddebian: i think several people were :)
<nictuku> bug #41123 fix was not released yet. I wonder why
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 41123 in smart "wrong default channel for dapper " [Normal,Fix committed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/41123
<nictuku> it's been a few days already
<bddebian> nictuku: I uploaded that, is it not there?
<nictuku> no but let me check again
<bddebian> Hmm, you're right, it's not there
<nictuku> bddebian, yeah it's not
<bddebian> nictuku: Doing it now
<bddebian> Heya sfllaw, your highness :-)
#ubuntu-devel 2006-05-05
<sfllaw> bddebian: Hi.  :)
<tseng> hi sfllaw, welcome to ubuntu land
<sfllaw> tseng: Thanks.
<sfllaw> I'm Simon.
<sfllaw> I don't think we've met before.
<sfllaw> Or if we have, I've forgotten.
<tseng> < Brandon
<sfllaw> I have a terrible memory.
<Kamion> nomed: at present there are one or two, but they're bugs
<tseng> you just touched a beagle bug earlier, thats me
<sfllaw> Ah.
<tseng> i only know you from your blog, otherwise
<Kamion> bmonty: we have a tool that tells us about binary packages that aren't built from source, and I run it periodically and act on it; no need for bug reports in that case
<sfllaw> tseng: That's very cool.  Just reading your weblog now.
<bmonty> Kamion: ok, I already submitted two bugs...I'll mark them as rejected
<nomed> Kamion, hardcoded ubuntu username ?
<nomed> Kamion, Mithrandir will know that for sure .. maybe you're interested too
<nomed> bug #42118
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 42118 in casper "allow custom HOST,USERNAME" [Wishlist,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/42118
<Kamion> nomed: no as it happens if you're talking about ubiquity I know it for sure
<Kamion> nomed: but they're bugs and I'll fix them soon
<nomed> Kamion, i was not talking about ubiquity directly ..
<Kamion> nomed: yes you certainly were
<Kamion> 18:21 < nomed> is there any part of ubiquity where the username is hardcoded ?
<nomed> but if casper could allow different username and host 
<nomed> then it could affect ubiquity too ..
<nomed> Kamion, yes :)
<nomed> but the bug has been reported in casper
<nomed> that's what i meant :)
<nomed> need to go now
<nomed> cu all
<Kamion> zul_: grr re bug 42020
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 42020 in grub-installer "installer: grub password included as cleartext in menu.lst" [Major,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/42020
<zul_> uh...yeah?
<Kamion> I'm getting really fed up with having to go over my mail with a fine tooth-comb to make sure people aren't rejecting my bugs
<Kamion> see my comments
<zul_> sorry..
<Kamion> after I've confirmed a bug on one of my packages, I really would appreciate people not rejecting it
<zul_> it wont happen again
<Kamion> thank you
<mjg59> Kamion: Is there a mechanism for seeing who confirmed a bug?
<Kamion> mjg59: link labelled "activity log" in the top left portlet
<mjg59> Ah, ok
<mjg59> Helpful
<\sh> oh fck..now I see mjg59 and it gives me the punch in my face...
<\sh> mjg59: the keys on the toshiba are not working anymore, but hibernating from script e.g. is working...
<mjg59> \sh: Can you be a bit more precise than "not working"?
<mjg59> All of the hotkeys, or just sleep/hibernate? Are they generating events in /var/log/acpid ?
<\sh> mjg59: yes :) 
<\sh> mjg59: the events are generated, hibernatebtn.sh is executed, but the real action in hibernate.sh is not 
<\sh> mjg59: all buttons....(tested under kubuntu)
<mjg59> Oh, right
<mjg59> It's probably KDE being broken, then
<\sh> hum? 
<Kamion> zul_: sorry, I know it's mostly not you, just a build-up of apparently massive interest in my bugs over the last couple of weeks
<\sh> don't tell me, that kde is fighting against shellscripts and acpi_fakekey?
<mjg59> \sh: Something needs to catch the key event and trigger hibernation
<mjg59> I'd guess klaptopdaemon or kpowersave or whatever it is this week
<\sh> mjg59: so the fakekey event from acpi_fakekey is not catched properly from kde...because something important is not working...Hope I find a solution in the next three days...it's really painfull presenting kubuntu at linuxtag without a working laptop integration 
<mjg59> \sh: I don't have time to do any KDE work
<mjg59> But something needs to catch KEY_SUSPEND (linux keycode 205, not sure what the X keycode is) and trigger hibernate
<\sh> mjg59: I don't blame you...:) 
<mjg59> Ditto for KEY_SLEEP (linux keycode 142) and trigger sleep
<mjg59> Or alternatively listen for HAL events that send BUTTONPRESSED HIBERNATE or BUTTONPRESSED SLEEP
<mjg59> (or something like that)
<Harti> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/firefox/+bug/42151
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 42151 in firefox "firefox-1.5.0.2 crashes on flash" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  
<nix4me> the site in that bug works fine on my debian box with 1.5.0.2
<mdke> seems to work here too, ubuntu
<jmg> whats the correct way to file a bug requesting sync to something in debian unstable? if it isnt in universe and previously hasnt been in sid
<crimsun> jmg: usually you'd follow the procedure for syncs on wiki/DeveloperResources, but it's not useful at this stage. When Eft opens, it'll be synced from Sid.
<jmg> crimsun: ah, automagically
<Harti> it a sound-prob. i have changed the "none" in /etc/firefox/firefoxrc to "aoss". when i change back to "none", then works firefox
<jmg> crimsun: Want to take a nother crack at my alsa issue? :)
<crimsun> Harti: the value aoss is not supported and will not work unless you have alsa-oss (universe) installed
<Harti> but with "none" i have no multiple sounds (beep-media-player and flash-sound on websites)
<crimsun> Harti: please address this with me in #ubuntu
<bddebian> sfllaw: I's been a workin' massa :)
<bddebian> sfllaw: Though apparently not to Kamion's standards :-(
<crimsun> I've attached a debdiff to bug #41367, compiled it, and verified it fixes the reported issue if a developer with main upload privileges has time to take a peek.
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 41367 in alsa-lib "dmix consumes 100% CPU with 32-bit userspace on 64-bit kernel" [Normal,Fix committed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/41367
<jmg> gah
<sladen> crimsun: ooh, excellent!
<bddebian> Damnit, where did everyone go?
<LaserJock> I'm here bddebian 
<bddebian> Heya LaserJock
<robertj> bug #42110
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 42110 in samba "home directories should be writable by default" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/42110
<robertj> hrmm, still unconfirmed :(
<jmg> uhh
<jmg> robertj: i wouldnt want my home exported readwrite by default
<jmg> So what normally happens when upstream folds a package?
<sfllaw> jmg: Folds?
<jmg> sfllaw: folds up some smaller packages into a bigger one
<jmg> opposite of split
<sfllaw> Combined?
<jmg> er well not really
<jmg> yeah
<sfllaw> You can choose to keep the package separation, but generate them from one source.
<sfllaw> Or you can merge everything into one package, and have Provides: and Replaces: for the old ones.
<jmg> No provision to have different controlfiles for derivatives is there?
<sfllaw> I'm confused by your question.
<sfllaw> Could you give an example?
<jmg> no it doesnt matter, i thought of how to do it - with a dpatch
<jmg> poningru: that s a cool quit :)
<poningru> :)
<poningru> thanks
<poningru> got it from a friend
<poningru> waay long ago
<sfllaw> Man, everyone who understood that was way too geeky.  :)
<jmg> sfllaw: I was wondering if it were possible to have a different debian/rules file for debian than to ubuntu, or to add specific functionality to the makefile that is active only if building for ubuntu
<jmg> poningru: reminds me of mtg
<sfllaw> jmg: But there _are_ separate files for Debian and Ubuntu.
<sfllaw> Ubuntu forks off all of its packages.
<bddebian> Since when?
<sfllaw> Ubuntu adds little patches here and there, no?
<sfllaw> At the very least, they bump the changelog.
<bddebian> Not always
<bddebian> Not for direct syncs afaik
<sfllaw> OK.  libgtkspell0 is one of those.
<sfllaw> But out of the archive, this is very rare.
<sfllaw> Only 575 binary packages are like this.
<Lathiat> Does anyone know the bug # where gdm doesnt get focus on dual head setups?
<Lathiat> i cant seem to find it
<Lathiat> but im sure i saw one before
* robitaille is looking...I could swear I saw it a few days ago...
<robitaille> maybe bug 28712 ?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 28712 in gdm "gdm loses focus when mouse pointer is outside window (when initially started)" [Unknown,Unknown]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/28712
<Lathiat> indeed
<darius_> Can anyone reproduce a failure when executing winecfg and clicking on the Audio tab in Dapper beta 2?
<robitaille> darius_:  what do you mean by failure?  a crash of the application?  I tried, and it allowed me to select an audio driver for wine
* welshbyte concurs with robitaille 
<darius_> robitaille: yes, the app crashes with: *** glibc detected *** free(): invalid pointer: 0x7c06cf70 ***
<darius_> I guess this is a wine bug - audio w/ wine used to work with this system :/
<darius_> in 5.10
<robitaille> maybe related to bug 42169
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 42169 in wine "winecfg dies when clicking the "Audio" tab" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/42169
<darius_> yeah
<Tonio_> hello
<tsdgeos> hi
<tsdgeos> anyone i can ping to update http://popcon.ubuntu.com/ ?  webmaster@ubuntu.com ignored my mail :-/
<Kamion> tsdgeos: Mithrandir has been working on that
<coz_> morning all
<coz_> after hving the error; dev sda1 does not exist , last week we decided to wait until this mornign to run the updates
<coz_> after having done that, on the same machines that ran daper well until a week ago , we did the updates again this time with a different error,
<coz_> ALERT! /dev/mapper/Ubuntu-root does not exist
<mdke> coz_: sounds like you've hit a bug. see https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+bugs
<coz_> mdke, mm ok thanks I will fo there and check
<Fjodor> Since it's rather quiet in here, I'll dare a question. Could the xkb symbol table be borked for dk? I only have Danish chars in gnome apps, and xev gives "XLookupString gives 0 bytes:" for presses on "oslash"
<tsdgeos> Mithrandir: any update on the state of the popcon page?
<ProN00b> why are new apps not in the multiverse repo ?
<mdke> ProN00b: it depends on the license as to which repository applications are in.
<ProN00b> would i find a app that has just been released for the first time in the breezy (current release) repos ?
<mdke> ProN00b: breezy was released 6 months ago, so anything released more recently than about 7 or 8 months is unlikely to be there.
<ProN00b> so a running release never gets new apps ?
<dsas> ProN00b: Nope, you only get new apps when you upgrade to the next release 
<ProN00b> why ?
<mdke> ProN00b: that's correct.
<ProN00b> i mean if they don't break anything and just work with the system they could at least by in multiverse
<mdke> as I said, multiverse is defined by the licenses of the applications in it
<mdke> releases are frozen shortly before release for stability reasons.
<ProN00b> yeah, but new apps ?
<mdke> yes, especially new apps
<ProN00b> hmm, so ubuntu is carrying on the debian philosophy of never having the new stuff (tm)
<Riddell> ProN00b: new stuff is in the development release
<Riddell> you'll find every other distribution is the same
<highvoltage> ProN00b: that statement is a bit unfounded
<Riddell> s/release/version/
<mdke> ProN00b: if you want to troll, go elsewhere please. The Ubuntu release team can't possibly develop two distributions simultaneously.
<Riddell> actually there is backports if you want that
<ProN00b> Riddell, how can i get that development release ?
<mjg59> Kamion: There's still the problem that the partition discovery stuff tries mounting partitions in the installer in order to identify them
<highvoltage> ProN00b: please take this to #ubuntu
<_ion> Setting up bzr-doc (0.8~200604291148-0ubuntu1) ...
<_ion> cannot create dhelp file '/usr/share/doc/bzr/html/.dhelp': No such file or directory
<hunger> Any idea how I can stop the gpg-agent on logout again?
<hunger> It is started in /etc/X11/Xsession.d (two times?) but never stopped.
<sladen> hunger: does this help? http://lists.gnupg.org/pipermail/gnupg-devel/2005-January/021763.html
<sladen> hunger: it should probably be a wider bug, can you file one please
<hunger> sladen: Such hackery works, but since gpg-agent is started by default it should get stopped by default as well.
<dsas> sladen, hunger: I think there is already a bug open for stopping gpg-agent on logout. 
<hunger> dsas: Yes, there is.
<\sh> since when is gpg agent started as default ?
<hunger> There should be some generic way to run scripts on Xserver exit that works for *buntu:-(
<hunger> \sh: gnupg adds two startup scripts to /etc/X11/Xsession.d.
<hunger> \sh: Does that since before breezy.
<hunger> \sh: s/gnupg/gnupg-agent/
<tseng> ii  gnupg          1.4.2.2-1ubunt GNU privacy guard - a free PGP replacement
<tseng> oh
<\sh> hunger: I'm on the latest dapper upgrades...and there is no gpg-agent start script in Xsession.d because gpg-agent isn't in the default seed somehow...or do I miss something?
<tseng> that explains it
<hunger> \sh: I guess so, gnupg-agent is in universe.
<\sh> hunger: so, there is no default :)
<hunger> \sh: but still something like /etc/X11/Xsession.d for stop scripcs would make sense.
<\sh> hunger: that's why kmail has problems to decrypt gpg mime mails :(
<hunger> \sh: I guess that is why I have gnupg-agent installed;-)
<\sh> hunger: to be frank, I don't like the agent stuff actually, neither ssh-agent nor gpg-agent...I don't like the idea, that my passphrase is somewhere in my ram :)
<hunger> \sh: I agree.
<hunger> \sh: But that the passphrase is in RAM and stays there even after a user logs out is even worse:-(
<\sh> hunger: that's why I don't use gpg-agent :) and that's why I have to decrypt my gpg mime mails manually, until the kmail devs are solving this issue the "right way" (tm)
<tseng> what difference does it make if you are logged in with something in memory, or logged out
<tseng> linux isnt a single user system
<tseng> if you dont trust the box, dont trust it when you are sitting there
<hunger> \sh: plus it occasionally breaks my pam-mount, so my HDD stays mounted unencrypted longer then necessary.
<\sh> tseng: it has something to do with "lazyness" and "humanity" ;)
<hunger> tseng: I trust the box... I accept that my passphrase stays in memory when it makes things easier for me (== when I can actually use the data == when logged in).
<hunger> tseng: I just hate to keep it there longer then necessary.
<tseng> then you dont trust it
<tseng> it doesnt matter much to me, it just seems a strange argument
<hunger> tseng: Well, it is somewhat similar to not wanting daemons to run with root privs longer then necessary to set up their stuff.
<tseng> daemons are remotely accessible
<\sh> as long as you use your machine as single user machine, everything is fine, but when you have 2 3 4 5 user on this machine, those agents suck
<hunger> Anyway: All I am saying is that it would be nice to have something like /etc/X11/Xsession.d to stop stuff after a user logs out oxf X.
<bddebian> Hello
<blaamann> elmo Znarl : The no.archive.ubuntu.com three is somewhat borked. E.g http://no.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/breezy-updates/main/binary-i386/Packages.gz is not there
<Znarl> blaamann : OK, I'll fix this.  Thanks for letting me know.
<blaamann> Znarl: We just talked about it in ubuntu-no and didn't know who to contact, but \sh told us that you might help us. Thanks!
<Znarl> blaamann : I am the right person to contact.  I've pointed no.archive at the archive.ubuntu.com and I will email the admin of the mirror.
<\sh> see, another problem solved :) closing bug ;)
<blaamann> Znarl: Thanks again, and I will now leave you guys alone :-)
<bddebian> Kamion: you around?
<bddebian> Kamion: OK, since I can't seem to catch you.  I apologize for subscribing ubuntu-archive to some of those bugs.  However, when I ask questions either in here or -motu, many times I don't get answers and even though you say 'upload whatever you want', I like to get at least a second opinion.
<bddebian> Though you notice, I usually do have a solution posted in the bug even though you say I don't.
<opi> morning
<bddebian> Hello opi
<bddebian> Anyone know how I can get this damn enigmail-locale-ru removed?? http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/13143
<sladen> bddebian: you could use some  dpkg --force  evilness
<bddebian> sladen: I've tried some.  Any suggestions?
<bddebian> Heya Gloubiboulga
<sladen> bddebian: or look at /var/lib/dpkg/info/enigmail-locale-ru.prerm  and working out why it is failing  and then file a bug
<sladen> bddebian: upload stuff, just like Unix, people will tell you if something could be improved and gnerally be quiet if you do something correctly :)
<sladen> bddebian: (and you and I don't learn unless we screw up first)
<\sh> sladen: you screw packages? no way :)
<bddebian> sladen: Well aren't we supposed to be a 'community'? :-)
<bddebian> I've already been chastized for a few of my uploads :-)
<bddebian> sladen: That worked, thanks man!
<sladen> bddebian: it's probably quite distressing because don't tend to give positive praise, just chastize when something needs fixing, so it may seem like you're always being nagged...
<Gloubiboulga> hey bddebian 
<bddebian> sladen: I don't mind being 'corrected' ;-), but I freakin' despise being ignored considering the amount of work that I try to do
<\sh> bddebian: sourcepackage?
<bddebian> \sh: For which?
<\sh> bddebian: with the problem of this mozilla-locale stuff
<bddebian> \sh: All of those on unmet deps :-)  I think most of them probably need morgued?
<truz24> Do I have to uninstall my old kernels to get them off of /boot/grub/menu.lst ?
<truz24> I tried removing them manually but automagic puts them back :-)
<\sh> what the heck is automagic?
<\sh> bddebian: I think this mozilla-thunderbird-locale-tr and this other package can be removed...
<bmonty> bddebian: they need to be removed, not morgued
<bddebian> bmonty: Yeah, yeah, whatever ;-P
<bmonty> :)
<bddebian> I don't know how you can be any more removed than sent to the morgue ;-P
<bddebian> Heya zakame
<bmonty> bddebian: that is going to be a lot of bug reports for the archive team to get those locale packages out of the archive
<\sh> morgue is a special archive....
<\sh> while removing means: go away forever in actual dapper archives :)
<bddebian> \sh: I know, I'm being literal :)
<zakame> hi all
<zakame> hi bddebian
<bmonty> actually, can we really remove the enigmail-locale packages, I think I remember looking in to that and the current versions of enigmail still need them
<\sh> hmm....>=1.5 << 1.5.0 it looks really funny to me, or I'm more into decimal calculation then dpkg ;)
<bddebian> Yeah, that's hokey
<\sh> that source pkg engimail :_
<Chipzz> \sh: bzzzzzrrrrrt ;)
<Chipzz> \sh: ssh-agent stores *the key* in ram, not the passphrase
<Chipzz> ;)
<\sh> Chipzz: yes :) but gpg-agent does not store the key in ram :)
<\sh> Chipzz: what I wanted to say is that I don't like it 
<Chipzz> uhu
<Chipzz> maybe someone should rewrite gpg-agent to work more like ssh-agent?
<Chipzz> or wouldn't that make a difference for you?
<\sh> how should that work? putting the unlocked key into ram? 
<Chipzz> uhu
<Chipzz> but actually I have no clue about gpg, so I may be talking non-sense
<\sh> Chipzz: it won't make a difference to me, I like more the manual approach to enter my passphrase every time :)
<bmonty> just because the key is only stored in ram doesn't mean it isn't written to the disk
<\sh> ram means physical memory and swap memory
<Chipzz> bmonty: you mean swapped out?
<bmonty> Chipzz: yes
<Chipzz> actually I think it's a non-issue
<Chipzz> if a user can gain root privs, or if you don't trust root
<Chipzz> then he can just as well install a keylogger or a rootkit
<mjr> it's not a non-issue if your box is stolen or confiscated
<Chipzz> if your box is confiscated they need to power-cycle it
<Chipzz> in which case the key will be gone
<bmonty> Chipzz: if the key or password was in swap it probably still exists after a power cycle
<mjr> except if it's written in swap
<Chipzz> bmonty: then use encrypted swap?
<mjr> though, the paranoid among us have encry... right
<Chipzz> and if your laptop is stolen, you'ld better have a good screensaver which asks you for your password
<bmonty> Chipzz: encrypting swap is a possible solution
<\sh> to be more precise: if you are using your box as a single user machine, all is fine...but if the box is used by more then one person, those things can be security issue...if the people using this box don't know
<Chipzz> if you don't, then this discussion is moot anyway
<Chipzz> bmonty: it all depends on how paranoia you are, and how much you have to hide
<\sh> someone who is working from home and is connecting to a network in his company should always be paranoid :)
<Chipzz> but for 99% of our users, this basically *is* a non-issue
<\sh> Chipzz: but gpg-agent is an issue, because without it kmail doesn't work properly regarding decrypting mime gpg mails
<\sh> but that's more a kmail issue ;)
<Chipzz> kmail should not rely on the agent then ;)
<\sh> Chipzz: tell that the kde devs :)
<bmonty> Chipzz: I disagree that this is a non-issue, but to each his own :)
<Chipzz> bmonty: then you're more security-minded than I am ;)
<Chipzz> bmonty: for me, it may be an issue for my fileserver with illegal movies on it... but for the other boxes I have, it isn't
<Chipzz> you have to place this in its context
<\sh> I hope amu is testing this gpg smartcard stuff on ubuntu/kubuntu, if this works I'll buy one of those smartcards and reader :)
<Chipzz> would the ibm fingerprint stuff be usable for such things btw?
<_ion> Talking of gpg-agent, i wish the script mentioned in bug #41870 were added to the keychain package.
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 41870 in keychain "Starting keychain from /etc/X11/Xsession.d" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/41870
<bmonty> Chipzz: why does it have to be in relation to illegal files...how about your financial info?
<bmonty> Chipzz: I've read that the security from the IBM fingerprint readers is laughable
<Chipzz> bmonty: because for a large portion of users actually encrypting their fs'es, I'ld figure it is?
<Chipzz> and for your financial transactions, you'ld have the bank to worry about anyway ;)
<zakame> heya Nafallo!
<Nafallo> hi there zakame :-)
<zakame> what's up?
<kmon> Hi
<kmon> The release section in the wiki should explictly say warty is no longer supported
<zakame> kmon: I think that will be changed soon
<kmon> zakame: ok
<Kamion> \sh: there's no such thing as a morgue in launchpad, so the term means even less than it used to
<Kamion> bddebian: you seem to be referring a bug to us and giving multiple options normally, not just one
<Kamion> bddebian: the problem is that once you subscribe ubuntu-archive to a bug, a malone bug means that we can never unsubscribe from it again
<Kamion> bddebian: so it stays on our to-do list, which means our to-do list just got a lot harder to manage
<Mithrandir> Kamion: it sounds like a bug that there's no way to unsub groups, though.
<Kamion> bddebian: it's fine to refer a bug to us saying "please remove foo" or "please sync foo" or whatever - that's fine - and I'm sorry you're having trouble getting feedback, but escalating to ubuntu-archive isn't the way to solve that problem
<Kamion> Mithrandir: it is - there's a bug filed, severity critical
<Kamion> but still, the archive team is not a helpdesk
<Kamion> also, could all you guys quit sending bugs to ubuntu-archive that all have the same subject line? :-) ("[UNMETDEPS]  xsim has unmet dependencies")
* Kamion apologies for being stereotypical cranky archive admin
<Kamion> aha, syncs should be fixed early next week, you'll be pleased to know
<zakame> Kamion: yay! \o/
<mgalvin> Seveas: ping?
<welshbyte> Kamion: regarding bug #41865, should bugs that have that exact backtrace only with a different KeyError be marked as dupes?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 41865 in ubiquity "kde-ui's get_disk_choices looks at wrong choice list" [Major,Fix committed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/41865
<bddebian2> Kamion: No worries.  I'm trying to close the ones I stuck to ubuntu-archive anyway.  What is the proper method to escalate something?  I know I'm a PITA but I am trying to get stuff done also.  It's not like we have a person to go to is there?  Maybe Daniel H.?
<bddebian> Kamion: Oh and as for the subject line, that wasn't my doing :-)
<crimsun> _ion: that would require keychain being promoted to main.
<_ion> crimsun: Why?
<crimsun> _ion: it's pretty useless if it's not in main. It doesn't necessarily make sense to have hooks for stuff that doesn't exist in main.
<_ion> crimsun: The Xsession.d script would not be there if keychain isn't installed. The script would be in the keychain package.
<crimsun> _ion: why not use the method recommended by keychain's author(s)?
<crimsun> (oh, it's filed against keychain, not X.org. misparse.)
<_ion> crimsun: How does that differ from what keychain's authors intend?
<crimsun> _ion: do upstream docs recommend using Xsession?
<bddebian> Kamion: Oh yeah, and one more whine.  My @ubuntu.com e-mail still fails? :-(
<crimsun> bddebian: that should be addressed to cprov in #launchpad
<bddebian> crimsun: Oh really?  OK
<bddebian> What's our stance on python2.2?  While I am ripping python2.1 out of pychecker, should I remove 2.2 as well?
<crimsun> (I thought you were discussing that with doko?)
<bddebian> crimsun: He basically said go ahead for 2.1 but I just thought about 2.2
<_ion> crimsun: The intention of keychain is to use already running instances of {ssh,gpg}-agent, or start new ones if they aren't running. Also, when the session ends, they are left running (unless the user configures it otherwise). So all of your X or shell sessions are able to use the same instances of the agents. Xsession.d would be a very good place to start keychain from.
<crimsun> _ion: so is the intention to remove the need for the user to edit his/her login file(s)?
<crimsun> (89keychain doesn't properly handle -csh, btw)
<_ion> crimsun: The admin can add similar lines to the shell's /etc/*profile as well. That way the users are able to use keychain simply by creating ~/.keychainrc
<_ion> crimsun: Xsession is a sh script, not a csh script.
<crimsun> _ion: no, I'm speaking of KEYCHAINENV="$HOME/.keychain/$(hostname)-csh"
<_ion> crimsun: $KEYCHAINENV is only used by 89keychain.
<_ion> crimsun: It's not exported.
<crimsun> _ion: you're missing me entirely.
<crimsun>  * Initializing /home/crimsun/.keychain/garnish-csh file...
<_ion> crimsun: All due respect, but i think you're missing me entirely. :-)
<_ion> crimsun: ~/.keychain/foo-csh contains exactly the same thing as ~/.keychain/foo-sh, just in different syntax.
<_ion> crimsun: Xsession.d/89keychain doesn't need to care about the -csh one because it's being sourced by /bin/sh
<crimsun> _ion: does Xsession explicitly use /bin/bash then?
<Coyctecm> http://www.fsf.org/blogs/community/rms-ati-protest.html
<Coyctecm> :D
<_ion> % head -n 1 /etc/X11/Xsession
<_ion> #!/bin/sh
<crimsun> and if /bin/sh is not symlinked to /bin/bash ?
<_ion> crimsun: It should be sufficient to expect that /bin/sh is symlinked to a sh compatible shell.
<_ion> If a user symlinks /bin/sh to /usr/games/quake2, Xsession(5) being broken is her smallest problem.
<crimsun> I'd feel more comfortable considering 89keychain if it at least handled -csh
<Mithrandir> if /bin/sh is symlinked to a non-posix-sh, you don't have a posix (and thereby not a UNIX) system.
<_ion> crimsun: Handled it _how_?
<_ion> How should a sh script handle a csh script?
<crimsun> _ion: the question is whether it's only important that hostname-sh exists
<crimsun> if so, then there's no problem at all
<_ion> crimsun: Yes, it's only important that foo-sh exists.
<_ion> Everything in /etc/X11/Xsession.d is written in sh syntax. If it weren't, it would be broken.
<kagou> slomo_: around ?!
<slomo_> kagou: yes
<sivang> re all
<sivang> hey slomo_ :)
<slomo_> hi sivang :)
<sivang> slomo_: when will you be able for a new upload? :-)
<slomo_> sivang: what about now? ;)
<sivang> slomo_: I'm working on some more improvements
<sivang> slomo_: cool, but I;m not finished yet ...:-/
<slomo_> sivang: i'll be here for the next 3 hours probably
<kagou> slomo_: can i assign #35792 to you ?
<sivang> slomo_: okay, coo, what are you working on?
<kagou> Bug #35792:
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 35792 in gdesklets "gdesklets shell fails on first run" [Normal,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/35792
<slomo_> kagou: yes, but change the error message too please :)
<kagou> slomo_: Bug #35792 is for you. I hope that my second package patch is ok now ;)
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 35792 in gdesklets "gdesklets shell fails on first run" [Normal,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/35792
<slomo_> kagou: thanks... uploaded :)
<kagou> your welcome
<shawn_home> hrm, why do we use H.J Lu's binutils and not the official GNU binutils? there's no need to use his anymore.
<shawn_home> its infact discouraged by linux kernel developers as well 
<Seveas> mgalvin, pong
<shawn_home> anyone have a reason as to why we use them?
<Mithrandir> shawn_home: probably because there's no reason not to and it's what we get from Debian?
<shawn_home> !!!
<Mithrandir> shawn_home: also, iirc, we use a somewhat patched cvs snapshot of binutils, so I'm not sure your claim that we're using H. J. Lu's binutils.
<shawn_home> not according to debian: binutils (2.16.1cvs20060413-1)
<shawn_home> GNU ld version 2.16.91 20060118 Debian GNU/Linux is dapper
<Mithrandir> yes, and?  Why do you claim that it's not the "official" binutils?
<shawn_home> there is no .91 package in ftp.gnu.org 
<shawn_home> but there is in: http://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/devel/binutils/
<Mithrandir> yes, and if you read release.binutils-2.16.91.0.1 in that directory it says that it's the beta release.
<shawn_home> ok,i stand corrected, the gcc people tell me thats not the other one
<shawn_home> if it has 2 extra .x.x it's HJL's 
<shawn_home> if it doesn't its GNU official
<kbrooks> Hey everyone.
<shawn_home> I was worried since HJL's binutils is rediculed by people, so we're ok
<kbrooks> XiXaQ: state your feature request :-)
<mgalvin> Seveas: i added a comment to Bug #41957 on my reason for filling it... please take a peek when you have time, thnx
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 41957 in fam "fam tries to remove ubuntu-desktop" [Normal,Rejected]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/41957
<Seveas> mgalvin, removing would be best imho
<mgalvin> +1
<XiXaQ> I'd like to have a cd-checker-feature in the ubuntu installation. I've had alot of problems (possibly) because of a faulty installation medium. I had to install windows again, download another copy, check it again, before I can resume installation of ubuntu. If I had known that there was something wrong with the cd, then I could simply reboot in windows, get a new one and try again.
<mjg59> XiXaQ: There is
<XiXaQ> mjg59?
<mjg59> XiXaQ: You can select it from Dapper's boot menu
<XiXaQ> mjg59, right, I was talking about 5.10.
<XiXaQ> great.
<XiXaQ> another request: a simple IRC client with a connection to an installation support group. and possibly a small text-based web client.
<Mithrandir> XiXaQ: it's in breezy too, but not discoverable.  Select "back" from one of the prompts and you should get to the main menu.
<Mithrandir> XiXaQ: from there, select "check cd-rom integrity"
<XiXaQ> ah.
<XiXaQ> I'm downloading Dapper now. If I'm able to run that in live versjon, then I should be able to install it too, right?
<Mithrandir> XiXaQ: yes, and there's a live installer there too.
<Mithrandir> XiXaQ: those questions are more appropriate for #ubuntu or possibly #ubuntu-no, though.
<XiXaQ> right.
<Riddell> welshbyte: yes, most likely
<highvoltage> hi, is there a way i can test a preseed file before burning a cd?
<lifeless> morning
<Burgundavia> salut lifeless
<ubijtsa> highvoltage: you can do a netinstall and pull the preseed that way perhaps?
<highvoltage> ubijtsa: that's actually a good idea. thanks, i'll do that.
<ubijtsa> highvoltage: np :)
#ubuntu-devel 2006-05-06
<kagou> i making a patch to add a depend to a package.
<kagou> i suppose that i had to edit debian/control
<kagou> but which ? control or control.in ?
<kagou> what's the difference ?
<\sh> depends...cdbs has a mechanism to have a control.in template which is substituted with some values and results in control ... so in this case, control.in is the correct way...but for this you have to check the debian/rules file first and read cdbs documentation
<kagou> thanks \sh
<kagou> see you later
<Riddell> jordi: bug 41678 is a UVF
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 41678 in ispellcat "Please sync with Debian unstable" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/41678
<Riddell> jordi: include a changelog and e-mail matt and colin
<tovella> not sure how to get this problem to developers, so i'm presenting it here.  i don't expect any help with it, just wanted to let someone know.
<tovella> [lspci -vv |grep -i adaptec] 
<tovella> results in the following:
<tovella> 0000:02:00.0 Memory controller: Adaptec AIC-7815 RAID+Memory Controller IC (rev 02)
<tovella>         Subsystem: Adaptec: Unknown device 7846
<tovella> 0000:02:04.0 SCSI storage controller: Adaptec 78902 (rev 01)
<tovella>         Subsystem: Adaptec AAA-131U2 Array1000 1 Channel RAID Controller
<tovella> [dmesg |grep -i 'aic'] 
<tovella> results in the following:
<tovella> [  129.386387]  aic7xxx: Unknown symbol spi_populate_sync_msg
<tovella> [  129.388363]  aic7xxx: Unknown symbol spi_populate_width_msg
<tovella> [  129.389222]  aic7xxx: Unknown symbol spi_populate_ppr_msg
<kl> tovella, https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+filebug
<kl> ...if there's something, what fails
<bddebian> Gah, where's doko?
<mdke> asleep, I'd think
<bddebian> mdke: Is he the go to for a python question?
<mdke> bddebian: no idea. I'd guess #python is a good bet
<bddebian> I mean python wrt Ubuntu
<bddebian> I'm getting ready to rip 2.1 out of pychecker and I'm thinking I should rip 2.2 out as well
<mdke> bddebian: well then yes, I think he is.
<lifeless> bddebian: do you mean as modes, or as dependencies ?
<lifeless> bddebian: or as 'runs under' ?
<bddebian> lifeless: All of the above?
<lifeless> well, its useful for folk writing portable python to know about 'will break on 2.2' even if they are using 2.4 themselves
<bddebian> lifeless: Fair enough but how long are we keeping 2.2 in the archive?
<lifeless> how are the two things related ?
<mdke> is there a disadvantage to keeping packages in the archive?
<lifeless> mdke: yes
<bddebian> lifeless: Because if I leave python2.2 as a dep/build-dep for pychecker and it no longer exists..?
<lifeless> bddebian: I'm talking about it being able to check for 2.2 issues. Does that need python 2.2 ?
<mdke> lifeless: what is the disadvantage?
<bddebian> lifeless: I don't know the answer to that unfortunately
<lifeless> bddebian: in which case, you can't answer 'how are the two things related' :)... thats what I'd aim to find out
<bddebian> Why do I even try.. :'-(
<robertj> whee, libpam-abl is packaged by debian
<robertj> happy day
<bddebian> heh
<robertj> that's going to be a popular dapper backport
<zul> heylo
<bddebian> Heya zul
<zul> hey bddebian 
<robertj> I've been looking at samba a bit and changing the passdb backend to plaintext seems like it would behave as expected for most users...
<robertj> any thoughts?
<bddebian> Hmm, I didn't get an accept or reject for pychecker
<poningru>  hi question: I wanted to request/work on a feature for the edgy espresso partitioning tool, a dual boot 'option' in the partitioning tool, should I put that in as feature request in malone or should I add it as a braindump on the wiki?
<poningru> I asked in #launchpad they told me to ask here
<poningru> also can I look at the espresso roadmap to make sure this isnt planned already
* poningru looks around for watson
<Burgundavia> poningru: what are you trying to do? There is planned a "delete these partitions and install ubuntu into them" features
<poningru> basically a single option that will 
<poningru> look at the ntfs partition to see if its non-fragmented enough and then makes it smaller, and formats that extra space with a linux fs
<Burgundavia> poningru: it should already do that
<poningru> 0.0
<Burgundavia> Gman: so, is gcj about to become obsolete overnight?
<poningru> rofl
* Lathiat wonders why it would
<poningru> Lathiat: the whole rumor about java going open
<Lathiat> did they OS java? :)
<Lathiat> oh, heh, only a rumour, fpf :)
* bddebian vomits
<Burgundavia> bddebian: does the word make you break into hives?
<bddebian> I'm just unimpressed with Java I guess
<poningru> woo go .NET
<poningru> err I mean...
* poningru goes back to his corner
<bddebian> heh
<Gman> Burgundavia, couldn't possibly comment :)
<Gman> [mostly because i don't know] 
<bddebian> Who's maintaining uploads these days?  Kamion and infinity?
<bddebian> Or is lamont still also?
<infinity> bddebian: What do you mean by "maintaining uploads"?
<infinity> bddebian: Uploaders (ie: you) "maintain uploads". :)
<bddebian> infinity: I uploaded pychecker but got no accept/reject?
<bddebian> And no it's not unstable :-)
* infinity looks.
<infinity> No, lamont doesn't have access to look at the upload queue, and never has had.
<bddebian> Oh, hmm
<bddebian> So I'm clueless, what can I say
* infinity puzzles over why this upload failed.
<crimsun> what key id and e-mail did you use to sign the upload?
<bddebian> bddebian@comcast.net as always
<bddebian> No periods in my email addresses ;-P
<bddebian> infinity: Should I just try it again?
<infinity> You should have a reject now...
<bddebian> Ack, shit, how'd I miss that being in main?
* bddebian turns in his MOTU badge
<infinity> Of course, I'd still like to know why the upload queue failed to process it the first time, and you only got a reject after I re-processed it, but whatever...
<infinity> One bug at a time. :/
<Rotund> would this be a a place to ask about Summer of Code questions particular to Ubuntu?
<infinity> Oh, that was the same bug that's blocking syncs.  I wonder if that means someone's jimmied it in production to make it happy again?
* infinity wanders off to try a sync.
<crimsun> infinity: word is that "syncs should be fixed early next week, you'll be pleased to know"
<infinity> crimsun: I know what the bug report says about them too (should be rolled out tomorrow), but that doesn't change the fact that bddebian's upload failed due to the same bug that was blocking syncs... And when I just retried the upload, it didn't fail (it rejected, but that's his fault).
<infinity> So, yeah.  Let me entertain a fantasy here for a few seconds.
<infinity> Oh, no, I guess it was two bugs with seemingly identical symptoms.  Nevermind.
<bddebian> Two bddebian bugs? :-(
<bddebian> :-)
<infinity> Unless you've been comitting code to launchpad lately, I think we can let you off the hook for this bug.
<infinity> bddebian: Anyhow, do you want to send me the debdiff for that pychecker upload, and I can sign and upload it if it looks cool?
<infinity> bddebian: I'm perfectly happy with MOTU fixing bugs in main for me. :)
<infinity> (Yes, I could just grab your upload from the REJECTED queue, I guess, but that seems to be in poor taste/form..)
<bddebian> I can do a quick debdiff I guess.  Want me to throw it up somwhere?
<infinity> Actually, screw bad form.  I'll just pull it from the rejected queue. :)
<infinity> (Or rather, I already have)
<bddebian> It's pretty small.  I just ripped python2.1 from it
<bddebian> OK, 1am, I gotta get to bed.  Gnight folks
<bddebian> Thanks infinity
<infinity> What a bizarre package..
<infinity> I wonder what the maintainer had against just depending on "python".
<bddebian> I think it needs all to check syntax for each version
<infinity> Anyhow, there's no harm in allowing it to still install and run with python2.1, even though we no longer ship it, so I won't bother uploading this at all.
<infinity> Software that works with old packages isn't inherently buggy. :)
<infinity> (If it also works with new ones, which this one does)
<bddebian> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/python2.1/+bug/41510
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 41510 in python2.1 "[UNMETDEPS]  python2.1 has unmet dependencies" [Normal,Confirmed]  
<bddebian> It and jython were the last rdepends for 2.1, then it can be removed
<infinity> We can remove packages while things still depend on them, if the dependency is an OR.
<infinity> jython is the only blocker.
<bddebian> Hmm, good point
<infinity> (Well, we can remove packages anyway, but we don't like to break the archive)
<bddebian> jython can get removed as well
<bddebian> Anyway I give up.  Gnight
<crimsun> infinity: If you don't mind taking a look at the debdiff for bug #41367, please, I'd be grateful. (I've built and confirmed it fixes the issue; I'm currently running it now with no problems.)
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 41367 in alsa-lib "dmix consumes 100% CPU with 32-bit userspace on 64-bit kernel" [Normal,Fix committed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/41367
<infinity> crimsun: Though I'm alsa-illiterate, most of the fixes in those patches look "obviously correct" and quite simple.  I'm balking at the fix for that specific bug, though.  Did process_timer_event() really do nothing useful?... Oh.  Nevermind.  It really did nothing useful.
<infinity> Then my only quibble is this:
<infinity> +-snd_timer_read(dmix->timer, &rbuf, sizeof(rbuf));
<infinity> ++snd_timer_read(dmix->timer, rbuf, sizeof(rbuf));
<infinity> [...] 
<infinity> + snd_timer_read(dmix->timer, &rbuf, sizeof(rbuf));
<infinity> Can we be consistent about that type and how we access it? :)
<infinity> (Not knowing the context, I don't know which is correct, though I suspect the change is correct, and it just needs to be made in more places)
<crimsun> infinity: it's pulled from upstream, but I'll ping Takashi about it.
<kagou> morning 
<sivang> morning all
<highvoltage> hi sivang 
<ubijtsa> highvoltage: did you get anywhere with the netboot test of the preseed?
<sivang> hey highvoltage , how's it going?
<highvoltage> ubijtsa: yes, i made some changes to the pxelinux config so that it's the same as my isolinux config
<highvoltage> ubijtsa: but then i realised that my preseed in there points to /cdrom/preeseed/preseed.seed
<highvoltage> ubijtsa: which of course isn't available, and you need user to tweak things a bit too far to make this specific test applicable to that
<highvoltage> sivang: public holiday here today, so I can't complain :)
<ubijtsa> highvoltage: I understand :)
<highvoltage> ubijtsa: i'm going to have to make it network installable at some point though. i'll do that as soon as the cd boot works fine. netboot+++
<ubijtsa> highvoltage: netboot rocks... :)
<fabbione> highvoltage: what are you trying to make netinstallable+
<fabbione> ?
<highvoltage> fabbione: it's just a tuxlab setup cd, i had some trouble with the preseed, so i wanted to find a way of testing the validity of a preseed before writing the CD
<highvoltage> d-i just said it's an invalid preeseed and didn't give more info
<highvoltage> but i think it was lines that I wrapped by adding a "\" that caused it
<fabbione> highvoltage: did you check /var/log/syslog ?
<highvoltage> merged some things into one line, and then it worked.
<highvoltage> admittingly, not :/
<highvoltage> so ubijtsa suggested that i use netboot to test the preseeds
<fabbione> do it next time
<highvoltage> ok, noted :)
<fabbione> because preseeding from cd/netboot is slightly different
<fabbione> in regards for choose-mirror setup
<highvoltage> i noticed :)
<highvoltage> can i specify that in pxelinux.cfg?
<fabbione> yes choose-mirror is preseedable
<fabbione> but there is a limit on the number of info you can pass via kernel cmdline
<fabbione> what i did last time was to provide the minimal amount of info to kernel cmdline to be able to download the preseed file from a web server
<fabbione> that will work
<fabbione> but you might still get one question asked at boot because the preseeding simply doesn't fit in the kernel cmdline
<highvoltage> ah, that would work for me too.
<fabbione> and preseed is loaded only after that
<highvoltage> one question is good. it means that someone won't accidentally boot to the network and accidentally loose all their data.
<highvoltage> i'm starting to really like d-i. i should've moved away from my hacky dialog / bash scripts ages ago.
<highvoltage> which preseed option is there to disable the HTTP proxy information question in d-i?
<fabbione> highvoltage: preseed it :)
<fabbione> it's in the documentation
<\sh> morning fabbione :) 
<fabbione> hi \sh
<\sh> I wonder if I can reproduce this ubiquity crash with kdeui on amd64..this is really a weired one
<\sh> Kamion: dunno if you are awake, but can you tell me something about component/language.py and the generated language_choice_map? it looks like a python dict, where the key is the language and then a list is the value...dunno if I read it the correct way
<highvoltage> ah, found it :)
<ben-2006> hey all, got a question regarding developing for ubuntu (and well linux in general).  What is the main codebase for ubuntu? C++ or Python or a strong mixture?  And how do you get a UI to work under both Grome and KDE - does GTK+ work it out?
<ubijtsa> ben-2006: Gnome use gtk, KDE use Qt and they are quite different
<ben-2006> so you can't make a app which works in both?
<highvoltage> ben-2006: although both will work on both if you have the libraries install
<ubijtsa> however, most people will have libraries for both installed
<mjg59> ben-2006: Strictly this channel is for the development /of/ Ubuntu, rather than development in Ubuntu
<highvoltage> *installed
<ben-2006> mjg59: oh sorry :(
<mjg59> ben-2006: However, applications written in either toolkit will work in either environment (providing the toolkit libraries are present)
<mjg59> The X protocol is the same in both cases
<ben-2006> ahh thats cool
<mjg59> Outside KDE, most application development is probably still in C. Python is also common. There are a few notable C++ apps, such as Mozilla and Openoffice
<mjg59> KDE is almost entirely C++
<ben-2006> what kind of apps are developed using Python?? (i want to get into linux development - or at least have more experience in it)
<highvoltage> ben-2006: python would be your best bet for getting started. you can contribute in many ways if you know some python.
<highvoltage> ben-2006: but let's move this to #ubuntu, we're there too, and will answer your questions there
<ben-2006> ok :)
<sivang> morning pitti 
<sivang> morning mjg59 
<pitti> hi sivang 
<\sh> moins sivang, pitti
<janimo> if a package has in the depends line: A | B , B does it chose B because it's twice?
<janimo> need to make a dep explicit rather then relying on dpkg guessing it
<pitti> hi \sh 
<janimo> and A |B is put there by shlibs
<pitti> janimo: either that, or it installs A and B
<janimo> ah, and A conflicts/replaces B :)
<janimo> it's the gnumeric/gnumeric-gtk thing matt answered on the list
<janimo> I guess I'll have to try and see. But since lintian used to complain if a dep is listed twice I did not think there could be such uses for duplicating deps
<\sh> woooha
<\sh> what do I get when I fixed kde-ui of ubiquity on amd64 ? 
<\sh> what what?
<\sh> Riddell....
<\sh> damn...that's giving me a high...
<janimo> \sh: is ubi  not entirely python?
<janimo> why does the arch matter?
<\sh> yes but it had a regression on amd64 only because of some strange unicode stuff...
<janimo> what was the buf?
<janimo> bug?
<\sh> start it on amd64, click the first next step and come to language selection it will crash
<fabbione> pitti: ping?
<pitti> hi fabbione 
<fabbione> pitti: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/hal/2006-April/005078.html
<fabbione> according to some very clueful guys, we need that to fix endianess issues
<fabbione> (serious ones)
<pitti> fabbione: sure, I can test and apply the patch at some time this week
<fabbione> pitti: ok great thanks
<jono> hi all
<jono> does anyone have a large icon for the update manager?
<ploum> jono: the icon is in SVG here
<jono> its png here
<ploum> (if we are talking about the same icon)
<jono> the litte orange update icon that sits in the notification rea
<jono> area
<ploum> oh, I tought that you were talking about the icon in the menu
<ploum> sorry
<jono> no worries
<jono> is there a way I can force the update bubble to pop up?
<jsgotangco> the one that says you have updates?
<jono> jsgotangco: yes
<Mithrandir> jono: downgrade a package.
<ploum> jono: comment a line in your /etc/apt/sources, apt-get update, put the line again, re-apt-get-update
<Mithrandir> (at least, I'd assume it'd pop up then)
<ploum> that's how I do it
<jono> how do I downgrade a package?
<ploum> jono: if it's in your package database, simply :
<ploum> apt-get install package=0.0.1.2
<ploum> where 0.0.1.2 is the version number you want to install
<ploum> availables versions are shown using
<ploum> apt-cache policy package
<jsgotangco> bye bye warty
<ploum> if you have an old deb file, you can also dpkg -i package.deb
<ploum> what the name of this fruit/vegetable in english : http://www.boolsite.net/images/previews/Divers/Nourriture_Boisson/_prev/Avocat.jpg ?
<jsgotangco> that's an avocado
<slomo__> ploum: avocado afaik
<ploum> jono: why not using this as the planetadvocacy logo :-)
<ploum> (in french, advocate and avocado are the same word. And are quite similar in english)
<jono> ploum: :)
<jono> hehe
<jsgotangco> lol
<ploum> http://french.epochtimes.com/news_images/2005-3-15-sans-titre-avocat.jpg (better resolution)
<jono> I cant find a package with more than one available version
<ploum> jono: downoad a breezy package on http://packages.ubuntu.com/
<ploum> and dpkg -i it
<ogra> there were a ton of uploads today and yesterday, i'd just try to run sudo apt-get update, with luck you have something to update ;)
<ogra> (before making fuss about downgrading)
<ploum> ogra: na..  too easy
<ogra> :)
<ploum> we are looking for something that feel like a bit "hackish"
<ogra> then patch apt :)
<zul> heylo
<imc_out> Hey anyone know if there's been move to add the EVDO MTU patch to the new dapper kernel?
<zul> no there hasnt
<sladen> mjg59: Lyn has an HP8230, is alsa-utils the place to file bugs regarding headphone muting?
<imc_out> Ah. Okay, thanks zul. Is it on the roadmap?
<zul> imc_out: i dont think so
<mjg59> sladen: No, kernel
<zul> you might want to open up a bug so the kernel team can ooko at it
<imc_out> zul, thanks very much.I think I will do that
<imc_out> I wish I could do more but I can't program to save my life. 
<imc_out> :)
<janimo> is there a new beta/flight planned for this week?
<ogra> hopefully not
<janimo> :)
<ogra> i'd like to have some time to work on bugs ... beta releases take an awful lot of time for testing
<tsdgeos> jordi: ping
<tsdgeos> Mithrandir: ping
<imc_out> zul, thanks for the suggestion. I filed the MTU/EVDO thing as Bug # 42356
<Mithrandir> tsdgeos: pong
<tsdgeos> Mithrandir: i was told you where working on popcon.ubuntu
<tsdgeos> is that right?
<Mithrandir> tsdgeos: yes
<tsdgeos> any timeframe when it'll begin to wrok?
<Mithrandir> this week, hopefully
<jordi> tsdgeos: yes
<jordi> tsdgeos: have you tried the latest version?
<tsdgeos> jordi: i told Riddell about the ispell thingy and he told me you should contact Foo or Bar (don't remember names) to get some permission
<tsdgeos> jordi: was going to do it now
<tsdgeos> Mithrandir: :-)
<jordi> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/ispellcat/+bug/41678
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 41678 in ispellcat "Please sync with Debian unstable" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  
<jordi> Kamion: is there anything else I need to do to get this synced?
<tseng> jordi: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperResources
<tseng> jordi: "Syncs"
<jordi> ok, so it's pending
<tsdgeos> jordi: Per is still not recognised as incorrect, but that was a bug not related to the others, you want me to open a separate bug?
<tsdgeos> the l' and . at end issues seem to have been fixed
<jordi> tsdgeos: that's probably a name or something.
<tsdgeos> maybe
<jordi> Per needs a separate bug, but I guess it's a surname or whatever.
<tsdgeos> it seems
<tsdgeos> Per i Toms, Job Agusti
<tsdgeos> but should surnames be in a dictionary?
<jordi> Agull
<jordi> I see plenty of them
<tsdgeos> ok, np then
<jordi> I guess that one could be removed
<jordi> as it causes some confusion
<jordi> I'll tell joan to see what he thinks about it
<tsdgeos> thanks
<jordi> Mallac
<jordi> heh
<jordi> it has this, but not with H
<jordi> Astals isn't :)
<danimo> does printing work for anyone of you with current dapper?
* tsdgeos puts his offended face
<jordi> heh
<tsdgeos> j/k
<danimo> I am constantly getting: http://pastebin.com/692143, no matter what I try to print
<danimo> and independent of the printer I am printing to
<danimo> anyone around who maintains cupsys or gs?
<pitti> danimo: cupsys -> me, gs -> Diziet 
<danimo> pitti: any idea about the output that cups shows in the log file?
<pitti> -v please
<danimo> (and in kprinter)
<danimo> pitti: see the pastebin url above
<pitti> ah, I didn't notice that
<pitti> danimo: hm, some program generates PS that gs doesn't understand; I don't know whether that's the fault of the application or of gs
<pitti> danimo: can you please file a bug against gs, describe the application, attach an example document that reproduces the issue, and so on?
<danimo> pitti: ok
<pitti> thanks
<danimo> Riddell: ping?
<Riddell> danimo: hi
<infinity> Riddell: kdeutils is FTBFS all over, BTW.
<Riddell> infinity: ta
<danimo> Riddell: does printing to pdf work for you?
<danimo> Riddell: seems like the kprinter backend creates invalid ps
<Tonio_> danimo: doesn't work here
<Tonio_> cups failing with ghostscript ?
<danimo> yes
<danimo> somehow
<Tonio_> weird
<danimo> Tonio_: pitti needs a bugreport
<Tonio_> danimo: yup, I'll have a look at cups logs before ;)
<Tonio_> danimo: nothing in cups error logs......
<danimo> Tonio_: I had, let me look up the bug number I filed it up
<danimo> Tonio_: it was with my kprinter backend, but that should not matter
<Tonio_> danimo: maybe need to wait a bit, I think cups doesn't print errors real time in log files :)
<danimo> err, with my printer even
<danimo> it does
<Tonio_> danimo: hum....... well the point is that my error logs are still empty ;)
<danimo> you need to increase the verbosity in cupsd.conf do "debug"
<danimo> Tonio_: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/cupsys/+bug/41800
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 41800 in cupsys "Cups fails to print any file with Brother HL-1430" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  
<Tonio_> danimo: that's why okay ;)
<danimo> :)
<danimo> Tonio_: it's probably not a pure kde bug, since a2ps fails on the same document
<Tonio_> danimo: confirmed
<danimo> Tonio_: can you try to print a small pdf via a2ps?
<danimo> or convert it to ps with pdf2ps ?
<Tonio_> danimo: it works correctly on my second computer
<Tonio_> at least for pdf
<Tonio_> what the hell is this......
<danimo> no idea
<danimo> but I don't really have time to debug it
<danimo> as much as I'd like to
<Tonio_> danimo: both dapper up to date, near by default config
<Tonio_> danimo: I am not able too
<danimo> Riddell: can you help out?
<danimo> Riddell: this looks pretty urgent
<Riddell> not if it's a cups problem I can't
<danimo> Riddell: well, if a2ps works it's probably not a pure cups problem
<danimo> cups/ghostscript, that is
<Riddell> we need to poke Diziet
<Tonio_> Riddell: the strange issue is it works on one of my two machines, both dapper up to date.......;
<Tonio_> and both with a nearby default config
<danimo> Tonio_: print to pdf, too?
<Tonio_> danimo: both
<danimo> interesting...
<Surak> hello
<Surak> can anyone confirm bug #19625 ? I don't have any wardware which would need this.
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 19625 in Ubuntu "minor numbers > 255 not supported" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/19625
<sladen> Surak: it's the policy just to grab a new major when you hit 256 minors
<bddebian> Hello
<sfllaw> bddebian: Hello.
<zul> hey bddebian 
<bddebian> Hello sfllaw, zul
<bddebian> Kamion: You around by any chance?
<janimo> Gloubiboulga: hi
<Gloubiboulga> hi janimo 
* dieman is trying a hoary -> dapper upgrade for the hell of it
<dieman> this should be entertaining
<Robot101> dieman: I've done it successfully, the only caveat is you will need to put breezy in sources.list in order to break sysvinit/initscripts/etc pre-depends, and upgrade them first to the breezy version
<dieman> ahh
<dieman> didn't do that at first
<dieman> if i get way stuck up im using vmware, so i can just revert to the checkpoint
<dieman> thanks
<dieman> wacky
<dieman> i first upgraded autofs, and then sysvinit and initscripts and didn't get stuck
<bddebian> Heya Gloubiboulga
<bddebian> janimo: You're an xfce person right?
<janimo> bddebian: well not xfce upstream
<janimo> but I use it
<Gloubiboulga> hi bddebian 
<bddebian> janimo: I mean like xubuntu type? :-)
<janimo> bddebian: yes :) you have a question?
<Gloubiboulga> bddebian, janimo IS xubuntu ;)
<janimo> OMG I am a clone of the gnome interface
<bddebian> janimo: Yes, I'm trying to "fix" the wavelan and other plugins for unmet deps but I think they are unfixable :-(
<janimo> bddebian: yes, do not bother with those
<bddebian> :-(
<janimo> if they don;t get ported to the new panel by upstream we drop them
<janimo> forom the archive
<bddebian> Should they be removed?
<bddebian> Doesn't look like they've been touched upstream since 2004?
<janimo> yes, some of those plugins are unmaintained indeed
<janimo> some of the upstreams are porting a few currenlty
<janimo> but if they're not ready ...
<janimo> anyway the more useful ones are alreday ported and in main
<janimo> ex cept screenshot which is pending in NEW
<bddebian> Damn, why do I keep working on worthless stuff :'-(
<janimo> bddebian: sorry :(
<Lathiat> hrm i had an issue with my computer having its date set to 2020
<Lathiat> i've sine set it back
<Lathiat> and now sudo refuses to sudo, stating 'timestamp too far in the future'
<bddebian> janimo: NP, I do it constantly :-)
<Lathiat> which is a bit of a problem given its the only way to get root. :\
<bddebian> Lathiat: There's a bug or two on LP for that I think
<highvoltage> anybody able to point me to a link with some nice gfxboot docs? i read the gfxboot reference at /usr/share/doc/gfxboot/gfxboot.html and it's way more than I need. I just want to change the image on the ubuntu splash CD.
<janimo> bddebian: there are some linux-2.4 packages  in the archive, I think they need to be made to work with udev ;)
<bddebian> Uhm
<janimo> kidding!!!!!
<bddebian> I'm not a "main" guy :-)
<janimo> but the xfce stuff which has unmet deps should be marked in the universe unmet dep wiki as not worth touching
<janimo> so noone wastes time on it. Assuming there is such a wiki page
<bddebian> janimo: These are LP bugs, I have kind of already noted them :)
<Gloubiboulga> Or on the reported bugs
<janimo> ok, thanks. There are about 4-5if I am not mistaken?
<bddebian> janimo: Aye
<bddebian> So, how about zope?  Anyone have some insight on it?
<Lathiat> gah this is annoying
<Lathiat> cus i cant reboot anytime soon
<Lathiat> is there any way to fix this? ;p
<dieman> Robot101: were you using apt or aptitude?
<Robot101> dieman: apt
<dieman> Robot101: when you last tried?
<dieman> ahh
<dieman> that might be why too
<dieman> im an aptitude fiend these days
<dieman> the package selection syntax is very useful
<Gloubiboulga> janimo, I still have an issue with gnumeric-gtk, it depends on gnumeric :(
<Robot101> dieman: right, but how did this impact your upgrade experience?
<janimo> hmm? how come?
<janimo> through shlibs?
<Gloubiboulga> yep
<janimo> but the gnumeric  package does not provide .shlibs right?
<janimo> as it ha sno libraries
<bddebian> janimo: How about cpufreq-plugin?  That's not from BerliOS but appears outdated too?  Same issue?
<Gloubiboulga> it has a lib : libspreadsheet-1.6.3.so
<Gloubiboulga> bddebian, it's not on berlios indeed, I haven't checked if it's ported, but I guess it's not
<bddebian> Gloubiboulga: It's from here:  http://people.debian.org/~joshk/
<janimo> bddebian: afraid so. I have not checked berlios lately, so if you find a plugin up there which has higher release that ours _and_ says suports the new panel I'd appreciate it :)
* janimo checks libspreadsheet
<bddebian> janimo: Hmm, one of them did go from 0.10 to 0.11, I'll look
<janimo> bddebian: I saw that. but Ithink it's just bugifx release
<janimo> datetime or notes right?
<bddebian> Oh, the notes plugin
<janimo> Gloubiboulga: I wonder if we change gnumeric.shlibs to libspreadsheet 1.6.3 gnumeric |gnumeric-gtk
<Diablo-D3> argh, hey everyone
<janimo> since splitting out a libspreadsheet package is too much right now I guess
<Diablo-D3> _please_ tell me someone here is on ubuntu dapper atm
<Gloubiboulga> janimo, I try 
<Diablo-D3> can someone tell me the correct size for /usr/lib/libGL.so.1.2 as installed by libgl1-mesa and not fglrx?
<janimo> Diablo-D3: 406824
<Diablo-D3> AHAH! Now I know what I screwed up
* Diablo-D3 is trying to get compiz and xgl to work on fglrx
<janimo> md5sum f8ca54ca203f133613629c3f62ebcd60  /usr/lib/libGL.so.1.2
<Diablo-D3> I think I figured it out, too
<Diablo-D3> LD_LIB_PRELOAD_WHATEVER=/original/libGL.so.1.2 compiz
<Diablo-D3> and run everything else on the libGL that comes with fglrx
<janimo> Gloubiboulga: although we need probably a .shlib file for gnumeric-gtk too
<Diablo-D3> janimo: and you're not running fglrx, right?
<janimo> no
<Diablo-D3> no as in you arent, or ...?
<Diablo-D3> okay, lets see if this damn thing works now
<Chipzz> Diablo-D3: don't you mean LD_PRELOAD ?
<Diablo-D3> if it doesnt, Im going to bed
<Diablo-D3> if it does, Im going to bed
<Diablo-D3> night all
<Gloubiboulga> janimo, got a Depends: gnumeric | gnumeric-gtk for gnumeric and gnumeric-gtk
<Gloubiboulga> I guess it should work, but not sure that it's really clean
<janimo> Gloubiboulga: weird but it hopefully works :)
<janimo> as they conflict eachother
<Gloubiboulga> yep
<Gloubiboulga> I upload the debs on a mini repo and I'll test
<janimo> I think a cleaner one would be if libspreadsheet was a separate package and it provided a shlib itself
<janimo> Gloubiboulga: thanks
<bddebian> janimo: Do you know if the xfce4-goodies package is just a meta package for all the BerliOS plugins?
<janimo> bddebian: something like that. will be updated to not depend on the broken ones
<janimo> once we are sure which are the final broken ones for dapper
<janimo> but yes it's just a meta
<dabaR_> Does Ubuntu run on a Macbook Pro machine, and which architecture?
<Gloubiboulga> janimo, it works :)
<Gloubiboulga> hmm, it almost works
<bddebian> janimo: Do you want me to subscribe you or xubuntu or anyone to these bugs or is that just overkill for you?
<Gloubiboulga> bddebian, you can suscribe the xubuntu-team
<bddebian> Gloubiboulga: Will I get in trouble? :-)
<Gloubiboulga> bddebian, I don't think so :)
<zyga> hello
<bddebian> Heya zyga
<bddebian> Hmm, why don't we have python2.3-xml?
<LaserJock> because we hate python2.3? ;-)
<bddebian> Heh
<bddebian> I think someone told me that all we are keeping is python2.3 and python2.3-dev but I am probably wrong as always
<bddebian> Oh crap, meeting, bbiab
<slomo_> Diziet: ping?
<pygi> Mithrandir: ping pong
<pygi> hi spacey
<Mithrandir> pygi: hi
<pygi> Mithrandir: someone on u-d said he wanted to work on auth-spec for SoC
<pygi> perhaps we should respond?
<Mithrandir> indeed.  I'll do that tomorrow.
<pygi> Mithrandir: ok
<pygi> Mithrandir: It would be great if he could really work on it
<pygi> if he's skilled enough, ofcourse
<Mithrandir> yup
<Mithrandir> absolutely
<bddebian> \sh!
<\sh> hey bddebian
<bddebian> \sh: Fix that swingwt yet? ;-P
<\sh> bddebian: no..but fixed ubiquity kde-ui :)
<bddebian> Nice
<bddebian> I don't fix anything anymore, I just bug Kamion :)
<\sh> lol
<thom> ~
<Mithrandir> 
<bddebian> <>
<bddebian> Hello ivoks
<Mithrandir> bddebian: , you mean?
<bddebian> Sure
<bddebian> So for diffstat for UVF exceptions, are we supposed to diffstat the orig.tar.gz's or the diff.tar.gz's?
<Amaranth> ogra: SoC application submitted, now for the finger crossing part :)
<dieman> is there a way to modify the logout window that doesn't involve munging code?
<LaserJock> bddebian: include both and you will have covered your bases :-)
<bddebian> LaserJock: Of course no one reads them anyway :-)
<LaserJock> bddebian: yeah, just flood them with stuff to look at, they might just approve it just because they don't want to see it anymore
<zul_> or see you :)
<bddebian> zul_: Well I know, they don't want to see/hear me :)
<zul_> hehe
<bddebian> Where the heck is everyone today?? :-(
<sivang> bddebian: I was wondering this since EU morning
<Burgwork> bddebian, is a holiday in more enlightened places, like Russia and China
<Treenaks> Burgwork: And most of Europe, except the Netherlands..
<bddebian> Oh yeah?
<sivang> Burgwork: what sort of holiday?
<sivang> (memorial/etc?)
<Burgwork> apparently the workers got all uppity on this day and decided to revolt or something equally charming ;P
<jjesse> or their illegal immigrants protesting in america :)
<zul_> may day
<Burgwork> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/May_Day
<sivang> ah, right 1st of may...
<sivang> how could I forget
<sivang> Well, for people not working for government related agencies in .IL, this plain old hard day's working day.
<LaserJock> doh, I didn't know it was a holiday :/
<Burgwork> LaserJock, canada and the us celebrate labour day on other days
<sivang> Burgwork: why be different?
<sivang> ;-)
<Burgwork> sivang, because the events the may day celebrate happened at other times in Canada
<LaserJock> well, I'm waiting to see how many shops are closed here today because of the immigration protest
<LaserJock> so far this morning it was only the Hispanic shops
<sivang> LaserJock: where are you in?
<LaserJock> Reno, NV
<jjesse> the united states
<jjesse> LaserJock: i've seen no problems on any stores in my part of Michigan
<LaserJock> we have the 2nd largest illegal immigrant populations  per capita in the US
<LaserJock> (in NV, not Reno specifically)
<LaserJock> so it was all over the news and there were some things supposed to happen on campus, but I'm not really seeing much
<LaserJock> but I just sit in my lab most of the day so I'd probably miss a lot of it anyway
<trappist> I'm in TX and I haven't seen any problems at all
<trappist> construction crews are out, restaurants open etc.
<lucas> you americans don't know how to make strikes properly. you should have asked us french people :-)
<trappist> heh
<trappist> but I think the strikers are those who aren't yet american but would like to be
<LaserJock> lucas: yeah, you guys seem to be pros ;-)
* bddebian doesn't comment
<bddebian> So, do I rip python2.3-xml dep from zope2.8?
<zul_> uh test it first..
<bddebian> Well I meant change python2.3 deps to 2.4? :-)
<bddebian> And test of course :-)
<sivang> bddebian: doing Zope ? wow
<bddebian> sivang: Just trying to fix Unmet Deps bugs
<sivang> bddebian: ah nice, I should probably join the fun to have you guys cheer for me on ubuntu-dev application
<Fjodor> Could some update of pam or gdm have caused gdm now generating an empty .Xauthority for my gf's account, thus preventing login?
<bddebian> sivang: I'll cheer for you anyway :-)
<sivang> bddebian: thank you!
* sivang hugs bddebian 
<bddebian> sivang: Maybe I should shoot for main, just to make everyone even more miserable ;-)
<bddebian> Then I could REALLY break some stuff :-)
<sivang> bddebian: you are approved for main uploads,aren't you?
<bddebian> sivang: Are you kidding? :)
<LaserJock> sivang: he should be, we are working on him ;-)
<bddebian> Oh stop, they wouldn't have me
<bddebian> And I wouldn't blame them :-)
<\sh> bddebian: wanna have my nick, should be easy then :)
<sivang> LaserJock: are you already approved there?
<bddebian> \sh: Great idea! :-)
<sivang> \sh: then I would need to borrow it for sometime
<sivang> :)
<LaserJock> sivang: no, and I don't think I ever will be. I'm pretty content in my Universe world :-)
<\sh> oh guys, I doubt that I will ever apply for main again :) there are a bunch of good kde people working on main :) 
* sivang is still highly interested with main
<Burgwork> sivang, are you not a DD?
<sivang> Burgwork: nope, am not...was always mostly interestd in Ubuntu , with Debian I've only been a faithful user and amature developer :)
<sivang> Burgwork: I've used to lurk alot on #debian-boot, ask Colin and Joey annoying questions :)
<sivang> Burgwork: this is how I got invited to the pre-warty process
<welshbyte> how should i build the code that i apt-get sourced and (hopefully) fixed to test it?
<Burgwork> ah
<\sh> welshbyte: pbuilder 
<welshbyte> \sh: thanks
<\sh> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto
<welshbyte> \sh: thanks again :)
<\sh> welshbyte: np
<bddebian> Oh frick, I hate it when I do that
<bddebian> mako: ping?
<Burgwork> bddebian, good luck
<mako> yes
<mako> bddebian: yes
<bddebian> mako: Hmm, nevermind, I am clueless.  I was looking at meta-ul but I just figured it out
<bddebian> Burgwork: ?
<Burgwork> bddebian, mako is a busy person. Doesn't often have time to respond
<bddebian> Burgwork: Well I'm used to getting ignored so no problem :-)
<bddebian> Hmm, what should I replace x-window-system with in deps?
<sivang> hmm, upbackup binary still not out of NEW I guess..
<Mez> BenC, ping
<Kamion> welshbyte: different KeyError> if it's just a different number, yes
<bddebian> Kamion!
<welshbyte> Kamion: ok, good good
<Kamion> bddebian: you'll need to ask elmo about @ubuntu.com e-mail; I have absolutely no idea how that works behind the scenes and almost certainly don't have the necessary access even to look
<mako> bddebian: awesome
<mako> Burgwork: i respond :)
<mako> Burgwork: sometimes just slowly :)
<bddebian> Kamion: Aye, I found that out from cprov, thx
<bddebian> Damnit, now I forgot what I wanted to ask Kamion
<thom> Kamion: you probably don't want to know, either :-)
<Burgwork> mako, yes
<Burgwork> Kamion, http://easylinux.wordpress.com/2006/04/30/ubuntu-dapper-drake-beta-installation-from-live-cd/ <-- some good points about the UI of ubitquity in there
<Kamion> fabbione: I believe all the kernel limits affecting preseeding have been raised to levels high enough that you can basically ignore them now
<Kamion> fabbione: as of 2.6.9
<Kamion> \sh: probably easiest to compare with the templates file in a localechooser binary package, specifically the Choices lists for languagechooser/language-name
<HiddenWolf> Burgwork: good read
<Kamion> \sh: I wasn't aware of the Unicode problems being at all specific to amd64
<Kamion> \sh: although I suppose it's not impossible
<\sh> Kamion: it wasn't a unicode problem
<Kamion> jordi: all syncs are blocked due to a launchpad bug; the fix is due to be rolled out on Tuesday (IIRC)
* infinity notes that today is Tuesday, where he is.
<\sh> Kamion: for choice in sorted(self.language_choice_map): this caused the trouble on amd64...strange but true
<\sh> Kamion: with this " for key,value in self.language_choice_map.items(): " where key is the language key of the dict, and value is an array of something, it works
<ivoks> Kamion: that's great news
<bddebian> Hmm, I have to head home and everyone shows up..
* bddebian gets a complex
* \sh hugs bddebian
<Kamion> Burgwork: (1) lack of UTC info/selection is known bug, (2) NTP support> er dunno, gnome-system-tools bug? (3) autopartitioning user-awkwardness known but there's no way we'll have time to reorganise that before Dapper *and* stabilise it too, and stabilisation is way more important
<Kamion> Burgwork: (4) "live CD ready to be installed"> true, better wording that's not Ubuntu-specific appreciated
<Kamion> hmm, suppose I should stick these in as comments
<Kamion> seems a mostly positive review though, makes a change :)
<Burgwork> Kamion, 2 is a bug that effects all use of that tool, not just through ubitquity
<HiddenWolf> yeah, it's odd
<HiddenWolf> Has been that way forever tho.
<Burgwork> it appears that ntpupdate fails, unlesss you force it to use ntp.ubuntu.com
<Burgwork> something wrong in the list of servers it is polling. I should dig deeper
<\sh> Kamion: I send riddell the patch so he can check...I found more but I have to dig deeper into the source
<\sh> Kamion: sad but true, I need a good way to test the live installer somehow...but without vmware it's bad, qemu is on amd64 and remote X display a real fight
#ubuntu-devel 2006-05-07
<jordi> Kamion: oh ok
<HiddenWolf> Kamion: I installed breezy at a friend's recently. He has two harddisks, and it put grub in the wrong mbr. Switching the hdd order in bios brought grub forth, correctly detecting all OS's
<HiddenWolf> Kamion: would that be solvable?
<infinity> Kamion: How comfortable do you feel, on a scale of 1 to 100, with granting UVF exceptions for apache2?
<Kamion> HiddenWolf: not easily
<Kamion> HiddenWolf: all such grub problems suck
<Kamion> infinity: is "off to bed now, sorry" on that scale? :)
<infinity> Kamion: No, damnit. :)
<infinity> Kamion: Say "hi" to your pillow for me.
<Kamion> infinity: probably about 60, though
<Kamion> night folks, flying visit while dealing with my huge pile of bugmal
<Kamion> bugmail
<infinity> mdz: Around?
<mdz> infinity: yes
<infinity> mdz: Care to look at the apache2 changelog and let me convince you to give me a UVF exception?
<infinity> mdz: http://www.apache.org/dist/httpd/CHANGES_2.0  (We're at 2.0.55 ... .56/.57/.58 were all rolled into one release, hence skipping two)
<infinity> Points to note:  They've fixed some bugs I've had on my plate for a while (yay), they didn't break module ABI (yay again), and despite the 3 version bumps, it doesn't look that scary to me.
<thom> the two skipped versions were mostly just minor problems found too late to re-roll, if memory serves
<thom> (56->57 was rerolled to pick up a fix for expect headers, 57->58 was because 57 missed a version number bump in a header)
<mdz> infinity: looks fine
<infinity> mdz: Danke.
<bddebian> Howdy peoples
<infinity> mdz: Similar question, but for MySQL 5.0.21... 5.0.20 contained a mess of useful bugfixes and one accidental backward-compat breakage, 5.0.20a fixed the backward-compat issue, and 5.0.21 includes more bugfixes, and two security fixes.
<infinity> mdz: http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.0/en/news-5-0-x.html for full changelogs.
<infinity> mdz: (Yes, I know it says 5.0.21 is "not yet released", but the docs seem to be lagging the tarballs. :)
<mdz> infinity: is that the backward-compatibility bug we rebuilt everything to fix?
<mdz> renamed the library and &, even
<infinity> mdz: No, no.  They just broken the CLI usage for the client app by accident.
<infinity> (option parsing)
<infinity> The library change is sticking. :)
<mdz> oh
<infinity> s/broken/broke/
<infinity> The library change wasn't a backward-compat issue from their POV, only from ours.
<infinity> (since they went from unversioned symbols to versioned symbols, they were fine, we just got broken by going from one version tag to another)
<zul> heylo
<mdz> infinity: mysql 5.0.21 looks good
<dAndy_> Kamion: re #38111 you said "try tomorrow's daily build and let me know if it still
<dAndy_> doesn't work" ... there has been no new mini.iso since April 23
<ajmitch> infinity: if you're around, could you check if python2.3-xml got into the NEW queue? I didn't get any mail about it
<infinity> ajmitch: If it were NEW, you'd have mail about it.
<infinity> ajmitch: It's failed (should be rejected, but this is a longstanding LP bug) due to this:
<infinity>  python2.3-xml (0.8.4-1ubuntu4) unstable; urgency=low
<ajmitch> of course, stupid me
<nictuku> anyone here who takes care of mozilla-thunderbird?
<nictuku> update-mozilla-thunderbird-chrome seems to be buggy
<nictuku> but I'm not sure
<nictuku> :-P
<infinity> Don't use it.  It'll be removed in the next upload.
<infinity> (It's not buggy, so much as completely obsolete)
<nictuku> hmm
<nictuku> there are packages in universe that currently use that, though.
<nictuku> infinity, what should these packages use now?
<nictuku> I'm trying to update enigmail-locales
<infinity> Nothing, ideally.  They should just install their chrome and let it be.
<infinity> Check enigmail itself, to see what it does.
<nictuku> oh I could check what mozilla-thunderbird-typeaheadfind does
<Mithrandir> sfllaw: I disagree about the "find -name \*" doesn't match names which are invalid utf8 when you're in an utf-8 locale not being a bug, btw.
<sfllaw> Mithrandir: Well, how do you generalise this?
<sfllaw> If it fails to match, do you fall back on LANG=C?
<Mithrandir> sfllaw: I didn't say it was easy to fix. :-)
<sfllaw> In which case, you'll get false positives.
<sfllaw> Since there's no way to identify which encoding a string is in, you can only assume it's the default encoding.
<Mithrandir> if your glob string only includes ASCII, that'd be sensible.
<sfllaw> If you glob string only includes ASCII, UTF-8 would match it.
<sfllaw> But then KOI8 probably won't.
<sfllaw> It's really quite lossy.
<Mithrandir> well, I find it hard to argue that "*" doesn't match anything because it's not valid in your current encoding.
<Mithrandir> that is, the string is not valid
<sfllaw> Wait a second, no.
<sfllaw> The bug is "*~"
<sfllaw> And that's the problem.
<sfllaw> Once you encounter an invalid character in your encoding, you can't tell whether there's an ~ at the end of it!
<sfllaw> If he ran "*", it's quite likely that it would match anyway.
<sfllaw> I'd expect "*" to match.
<sfllaw> Or even "foo*" to match.
<sfllaw> But you can't expect "*~" to have a hope of winning.
<Mithrandir> it's I who filed the bug.
<sfllaw> Did I read the bug wrong?
<sfllaw> Which number is it?
<Mithrandir> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/findutils/+bug/31232
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 31232 in findutils "find -name \*~ doesn't find files which have names which are not valid in the current locale" [Normal,Rejected]  
<Mithrandir> and -name \* doesn't match either
<sfllaw> Well, OK.
<Mithrandir> ditto for -regex .\* ; no match.
<Mithrandir> it might be that we're way into undefined behaviour territory here, though.
<sfllaw> Yeah.
<sfllaw> Find won't even match against the invalid filename itself.
<Mithrandir> find2perl -name \* | perl and find2perl -name \*~ | perl both works
<sfllaw> I think, at the very best, that this is a wishlist bug.
<sfllaw> It could be argued to work either way.
<nictuku> if a chrome is to be installed in more than one application - say, mozilla and mozilla-thunderbird, after copying it to /usr/lib/mozilla/chrome, how do I "register" it? (I'd be happy if you pointed to a sample application)
<infinity> nictuku: Err, this is for enigmail?
<nictuku> infinity, yes..
<nictuku> should I just leave it?
<nictuku> it's so fun :-)
<infinity> nictuku: enigmail isn't even in the same version for mozilla and thunderbird, I'd recommend against trying to install "shared chrome" for it.
<nictuku> infinity, ok, but then the change would be too big for a freeze-time, right?
<nictuku> I could provide enigmail-locale-YY-0.94.. but it wouldn't be pretty I think
<nictuku> infinity, is this old too? http://web.glandium.org/debian/packages/mozilla-firefox/New_scheme_for_extensions/20041114  if yes, do you know of an updated reference?
<fabbione> Kamion: unfortunatly not.. not when i did test them in breezy
<jdub> mjg59: ping
<pitti> Good morning
<jdub> mdz: ping
<ajmitch> hi pitti 
<pitti> hi ajmitch 
* fabbione waves
<sladen> crazy time of day
<sivang> morning everybody
<pitti> hey sivang 
* sivang hugs pitti 
<sivang> pitti: how's it going?
<pitti> sivang: great, had some nice holidays; and you?
<infinity> Oh man, it's UVF exception day all 'round for everything I maintain.
<sivang> pitti: been working yesterday, but managed to find out that laptop-mode-tools was causing some troubles for my ThinkPad, purged it and things are a bit better now :)
* infinity already did apache2 and mysql, and now noticed a new php5 released.
<infinity> Ngh.
<sivang> infinity: mind kicking upbackup's binaries out of NEW :-) (I owe you a beer if I get to meet you in Paris)
<sivang> ?
<infinity> We've already met, and no beer was provided then. :P
<sivang> infinity: my bad, noted. Will try to make it better next time! (I just need to people to remind me I've promised them such, and I will deliver ;-) I keep forgetting stuff all time long..
<sivang> I also owe some other folks some stuff, /me makes a list
<infinity> You live in .il, yes?
<infinity> You can probably repay me in olives or olive oil or other such olive-related produce.
<sivang> indeed.
<sivang> infinity: you name it, I'll bring it :-)
* infinity goes to give your binary a once-over and make sure it's sane to unleash on the archive.
* sivang hugs infinity 
<sivang> infinity: there are also many related art and religious artficats that can be brought from here, if you're interested for you or for your relatives whatever, let me know and I'll check what I can do.
<infinity> I suspect any "arifacts" I'd want wouldn't be allowed to leave the country... Or the glass cases in which they reside. :)
<sivang> infinity: acutally IIRC they're are allowed to leave the country, and they are even sold in special bottles :-)
<infinity> sivang: Why so many restrictive versioned dependencies?
<infinity> sivang: I'm willing to believe you may need a specific pygtk version, but is the versioned dependency on dar and hal required?  And is a dependency on coreutils required at all (hint: It's an essential package, you don't need to depend on it, and I can see any reason why you'd need a tight versioned dep on such a recent version)
<infinity> sivang: Same for gksu... (why the seemingly arbitrary version?)
<sivang> infinity: noted, hal is required because only starting from this version of HAL there's support for cdrom volume capacity detection
<sivang> infinity: coreutils - note, I just recalled about the section in the policy that states you need not depend on essential packages ;-)
<janimo> mvo: hi, can you include the fix to bug 40655 in the next upload of update-manager? thanks
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 40655 in update-manager "Software Properties Depends on Gnome" [Normal,Fix committed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/40655
<mvo> janimo: I was sure I fixed it with my latest upload, let me re-check
<mvo> janimo: the latest upload should fix this, can you please check if you have the latest version?
<janimo> mvo, ok, I thought I had the latest (before the weekend), and the bug was not touched :).
<Kamion> dAndy_: oh, version of the mini.iso doesn't particularly matter, just use it with the current archive
<mvo> janimo: IIRC I uploaded at friday
<sivang> infinity: I will also remove the versioned dependency from dar.
<infinity> sivang: For the sake of my own pedantry, can you upload a new version that fixed the dependencies?  (remove unnecessary versions, remove the coreutils dep completely, etc)?
<infinity> sivang: Then I'll give that one last look and NEW it, if I want olive oil.
<janimo> mvo, indeed there's a new one and has the fix.thanks
<infinity> sivang: Also, is there any reason to call it "Ubuntu Personal Backup System"?  What if you want to upload it to Debian some day? :)
<infinity> sivang: Perhaps s/Ubuntu/Universal/ or Unparallelled, or Uberspiffy, or whatveer. :)
<infinity> sivang: Generally, including an OS brand in your software is silly.  (see all the "Linux" software that compiles and runs fine on other UNIXes, for instance)
<sivang> infinity: yes, this change is in place :) I will choose one of those and update, then upload, it's gonna take a while so I'll ping you again when a new source with all of the above changes will be updated.
<sivang> infinity: and btw, I would have gotten you olive oil anyways if you wanted, I wasn't really conditioning the two :-)
<sivang> infinity: (also, about the things that come in glass containers, let me know and I'll check)
<infinity> You're planning on robbing a museum for me?  How sweet. :)
<sivang> ah, I didn't know you were planning a specific set of those :) 
<janimo> Gloubiboulga: hi. does xffm not use the xfce.mk CDBS class?
<janimo> if it did there would be no need to explicitely tell it about dh_iconcache
<Gloubiboulga> janimo, I didn't use it iirc
<Gloubiboulga> janimo, confirmed, I didn't use it since it's not really Xfce related
<janimo> xffm?
<janimo> xfce file manager :)
<Gloubiboulga> hmm, yep, is it really usable only with Xfce ?
<janimo> well no but the xfce.mk class does not tie it to xfce in any way
<Gloubiboulga> yep, I should have used it
<janimo> it's just a shortcut for debhelper/autotools/dh_iconcache etc
<janimo> most (all?) xfce package suse it now in ubuntu
<janimo> if we convince debian to use xfce.mk then our package diffs may only be in the cdbs package instead of throughout the xfce packages themselves
<dholbach> who can tell me the name of the kde package where the "this app has crashed" picture is in?
<ajmitch> kdebase-bin, I suspect
<ajmitch> assuming it's the image  /usr/share/apps/drkonqi/pics/konqi.png
<janimo> dholbach, krash-katcher?
<dholbach> ajmitch: that's the one
<dholbach> janimo, ajmitch: thanks
<mjg59> jdub: Yo
<ogra> hmm, someone pinged me ?
<ogra> (sadly its lost in my scrollback)
<lifeless> ogra: a few days back I did, to say g-s-s looks good now
<ogra> lifeless, ah, thanks :)
<ogra> but i was online yesterday, so the ping must have been tonight or late evening yesterday 
* ogra goes to look in the logs
<ogra> ahh :) amaranth did his SoC application for the willow project :)
<ogra> great 
* ajmitch might put in a SoC application :)
<seb128> what is willow?
<neuralis> ajmitch: what would you like to work on?
<ajmitch> neuralis: I thought it might give me a good chance to work on the selinux reference policy in debian or ubuntu 
<ajmitch> either that or I'd come up with something, possibly related to those T2000s :)
* neuralis just can't bring himself to like selinux. at all.
<ajmitch> too complex?
<neuralis> yes.
<ogra> seb128, http://www.digitallumber.com/software/willow/
<seb128> k
<ogra> seb128, its a content filtering proxy using bayesian filtering additionally to the common black/whitelists, its python and already comes with a web interface
<ogra> aaaand it uses pam for all auth stuff
<seb128> I'm not sure than standard Ubuntu users use a "content filtering proxy"
<ogra> nope
<ogra> but edubuntu users cry for it since before breezy
<ogra> its forced by law in the us to have a content filter if you run IT stuff in schools ...
<ogra> (with web access)
<seb128> ah, k
<Diziet> slomo: Ah, hello.  That ping was re 41800 ?  I see that bug report doesn't seem to have attached to it the file that was trying to be printed.
<slomo> Diziet: err? i was talking about bug #40320 ;)
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 40320 in firefox "devhelp starts with an "empty" page area, which is not redrawn" [Unknown,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/40320
<Diziet> slomo: Oh :-).  Well, I saw my name around 41800 so I suppose I should leave a comment there ...
<slomo> Diziet: anyway... could you include the patch for #40320 in your next firefox upload? it affects many packages and working fine for me since i added the comment ;)
<Diziet> slomo: Oh, that.  That patch is in the upload I'm testing just as soon as I've caught up on my IRC pings ...
<slomo> Diziet: oh even better :) and you already have the updated one that doesn't break chrome anymore?
<Diziet> `updated fix' of 2006-04-26 04:07 from Mozilla 312998 is what I have.
<Ubugtu> Mozilla bug 312998 in Embedding: GTK Widget "fix gtkmozembed's EmbedWindow::GetVisibility" [Major,Assigned]  https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=312998
<slomo> yeah that one :)
<slomo> perfect
<ompaul> mdz, care to spend a minute or two on that mail about the bot? the web page reflects the bot, the plan is anyone can, however lets say I have an interest in it being right
<dholbach> ompaul: I hope mdz is still lying in bed. :-)
<ompaul> dholbach, there is that, I just noticed the tz on his mail now :-)
<dholbach> :)
* ompaul spent 2 hours in out and about this morning - and its a 5 mile (8k) journey two ways 1.5 hours one way 10 minutes business and 20 back to base still have not worked out why my brain is confused :)
<nomed> hi all
<coz_> hello all I tried reporting a bug after talking about it here but recieved an error on the page is bug reporting closed/
<sivang> wow nice, oracle released an update for their OracleXE packages into debian packages. it says there it's for Ubuntu as well :)
<coz_> is error reportingclosed on launchpad
<mjg59> Diziet: I'm still seeing broken fonts in Epiphany
<mjg59> Is there anything you've done that ought to have changed that?
<mjg59> (And would you like a bug filed if there isn't one already?)
<Diziet> mjg59: Broken as in unwanted Nimbus, or something else ?
<mjg59> Unwanted Nimbus
<mjg59> At least, I think so - I'm still dire at distinguishing fonts
<Diziet> Tricky, isn't it.
<Diziet> I suppose I'd better try to do something about it.  Can you file a bug quoting the test URL you're using ?
<mjg59> But it's got the colour blurring that I associate with Nimbus
<mjg59> Ok
<Diziet> Against firefox.
<mjg59> Oops. Sorry, filed it against epiphany-browser
<mjg59> I'll reassign now
<Diziet> mjg59: Sure.  Can you tell me the number so I can write it on my list ?
<Mithrandir> mjg59: try using whatthefont to identify it; http://desktoppub.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?zi=1/XJ&sdn=desktoppub&zu=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.myfonts.com%2FWhatTheFont%2F ?
<Mithrandir> http://www.myfonts.com/WhatTheFont/ , rather
<nomed> Mithrandir,there is a wishlist bug in casper .. the bazaar repo link is included
<nomed> i guess you're busy .. just ping me when yu'll have the time to take a look and give me some feedbacks
<janimo> Gloubiboulga: uploaded xfburn to NEW
<Gloubiboulga> janimo, yep, I've received the mail, thanks :)
<nomed> hi janimo Gloubiboulga 
<janimo> hi nomed
<Gloubiboulga> hey nomed 
<mjg59> Diziet: 42559
<Diziet> Ta.
<doko> good afternoon
<Mithrandir> nomed: I'm looking at it now
<fabbione> pitti: ping?
<pitti> hey fabbione 
<Mithrandir> nomed: pong me when you're around; there are some things which need to be fixed before I want to merge it.
<nomed> Mithrandir, pong ..
<Mithrandir> nomed: you install stuff to /usr/share/doc/initramfs-tools/examples; that's wrong, don't do that.
<Kamion> wurgh, I've got read() returning ERESTARTSYS here
<Kamion> I thought that wasn't meant to be seen by userspace?
<zul> hey
<nomed> Mithrandir, i supposed .. that's why i tried to split the changes in more revs
<nomed> Mithrandir, where can i install that example file .. supposing it's needed ?
<sonnenschein> why
<Mithrandir> if anywhere; /usr/share/doc/casper
<nomed> ok
<Mithrandir> nomed: and I don't see the point of the blacklist functionality, as I said.  Have you come up with a use case for it?
<sonnenschein> why
<nomed> Mithrandir, nothing new if you do not think performance can be improved in that way :)
<nomed> Mithrandir, i've even seen the TODO list ..
<sonnenschein> why
<Mithrandir> nomed: I think shaving half a second off the boot time when we're at several minutes is pointless.
<Mithrandir> nomed: the todo list shouldn't be there, it's absolutely not current.
<sonnenschein> why
<nomed> what's that why ? o0
<Mithrandir> sonnenschein: if you have something sensible to say, please say so, else be quiet or leave the channel
<Kamion> Would it even shave off half a second? I'd expect that you'd spend longer checking the blacklist for every script than you would just running the scripts and letting the occasional one of them decide to do nothing.
<sonnenschein> occasional one
<nomed> Kamion, not really
<nomed> it just doesn't add the unwanted scripts to initlist ..
<sonnenschein> initlist
<nomed> while generating it
<sonnenschein> generating
<Mithrandir> Kamion: unsure, it for sure won't cut big chunks out of the boot time and it's more complexity.
<sonnenschein> complexity
<Mithrandir> oh please, somebody kick sonnenschein
<ogra> fabbione ?
<fabbione> ogra: ?
<ogra> ^^^^^
<nomed> Mithrandir, i agree about complexity
<sonnenschein> agree
<nomed> and i even think for dapper is not needed
<sonnenschein> dapper
<ogra> fabbione, see Mithrandir 
<fabbione> ogra: i am not reading here.. what does need my attention?
<Mithrandir> fabbione: care to kick sonnenschein, he appears to be a bot which is just annoying.
<fabbione> ok
<Mithrandir> thanks.
<ogra> thanks
* mode/#ubuntu-devel [+o fabbione]  by ChanServ
<sonnenschein> thanks
* mode/#ubuntu-devel [+b *!*@84-72-40-171.dclient.hispeed.ch]  by fabbione
* sonnenschein was kicked off #ubuntu-devel by fabbione (fabbione)
<nomed> but in case derivatives wouldn't use some scripts a-priori that could be a solution
* mode/#ubuntu-devel [-o fabbione]  by fabbione
<Mithrandir> nomed: it looks like a solution in search of a problem. :-P
<nomed> ehehe
<nomed> Mithrandir, i do not know how casper will be in 30 days :)
<nomed> i know that with patch i'll be sure i can use casper upstreamer source :)
<Mithrandir> nomed: also, why do you redefine run_scripts in debian/casper.initramfs?
<nomed> Mithrandir, to not patch initramfs-tools just for casper
<nomed> i guess that's where a blacklist is needed ..
<Mithrandir> can you do a measurement and see how much you save with those two it seems you want to disable?
<Kamion> hmm, maybe strace is lying slightly about the ERESTARTSYS, hard to tell
<nomed> Mithrandir, i'll do that .. but i don't know when i'll have the time 
<ogra> ssam, around ?
<ssam> ogra, hi
<ogra> hey
<ogra> i saw you had a suggestion for y python teaching IDE ?
<ssam> yes
<ogra> did you think about basing it on pygame ? 
<ogra> i think it has many of the functions you describe in the spec suggestion
<ssam> i dont think i could do it personally, more of an idea i have had in my head, and was throwing it out for a better programmer to pick up
<ogra> ah
<ssam> i know a bit of python, but i have not dont much gui programming
<ogra> i wont mentor it as SoC anyway, somebody else would have to step up (i already have one mentorship and last SoC showed me that its bad to do two)
<sivang> ssam: what are you looking a mentor for?
<pitti> Diziet: would you have time to look at gs-esp 8.15.2? http://www.cups.org/articles.php?L378   you seem to know the code a bit and might be able to judge if we should get it for dapper
<ogra> sivang, see above, he doesnt look for a mentor personally, he created a spec and someone added it to the edubuntu SoC project list
<sivang> ogra: k, thanks
<ogra> sivang, https://launchpad.net/disthttps://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/simple-prog-appros/ubuntu/+spec/simple-prog-app
<Kamion> grr, python fileobj.readline() loses input data if it gets EINTR on a read() part-way through
<sivang> Kamion: all of it? or just some of it?
<Kamion> sivang: everything it's read so far, as far as I can tell
<Kamion> unless I'm on crack, which is possible. This is a messy bug.
<crimsun> pitti: would you look at bug #41367 when you have time, please?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 41367 in alsa-lib "dmix consumes 100% CPU with 32-bit userspace on 64-bit kernel" [Normal,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/41367
<ssam> sivang, https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/simple-prog-app, but i dont think i'd be able to be the student
<pitti> crimsun: I eyeballed the patch, looks good; great work!
<pitti> crimsun: the rbuf change seems consistent
<crimsun> pitti: thanks for your time
<pitti> crimsun: can you upload yourself or do you need a sponsor?
<crimsun> pitti: would need a sponsor, please
<pitti> crimsun: alright, I'll upload then. thank you!
* pitti hugs crimsun, the audio guru
<janimo> infinity: if there was a need to do a mass build of all xfce apps is that you who needs to be pinged?
<janimo> not the case right now, but so I know if it is
<sivang> ssam: and you think the language to go is python?
<janimo> there may be a soname bump in one of the xfce libs
<janimo> crimsun: do you think we can have something better than xfmedia as default in xubuntu?
<janimo> considering the dependency restrictions
<ssam> sivang, i think it needs to be a simple to learn language, that can also be used of more complex things once its learned. python fits that, and is well supported by ubuntu
<crimsun> janimo: hmm, that's difficult given the xine restriction
<janimo> crimsun, so xine-ui and gxine are not even as good as xfmedia?
<pitti> janimo: you have to upload new versions anyway, so you can do it yourself
<ssam> sivang, maybe the project could be writen in C, but i think it would be nice for it to be python all the way through
<janimo> pitti, true. but in case I want to minimize the state of brokennes, or dep-waits
<crimsun> janimo: gxine is good imo, but its playlist handling is cumbersome compared with xfmedia's
<janimo> pitti, last time I hurried all uploads so they stuck in wait
<janimo> but I guess I need to be more careful now :)
<pitti> janimo: just start with the basic libraries, dep-wait handling is fairly good nowadays
<crimsun> janimo: (would need to be promoted iirc)
<janimo> crimsun: xfmedia hangs sometimes that's what I dont' like about it. even when playing audio CDs
<janimo> pitti, ok, thanks
<janimo> crimsun: true. and in that case xfmedia would go back to universe
<janimo> gxine has some security history though
<pitti> janimo: heh, I just checked :)
<infinity> janimo: dep-wait handling is automatic, it only breaks if you screw up the versioned build-deps.  So don't screw up. :)
<infinity> crimsun: Erm, my concern was with inconsistency outside the patched area.
<infinity> crimsun: If rbuf has become an array, why is it not accessed in the new fashion after the else?
<infinity> pitti: ^^^^
<Mithrandir> nomed: I've merged your changes, except for the blacklist stuff and reformatted it a bit, so you might want to merge from me to resolve conflicts.
<Mithrandir> TheMuso: merged from you too, thanks.
<janimo> pitti, would you feel uncomfortable with xine-ui or gxine in main? I.e does it ring any bells :)
<janimo> crimsun: gxine has the browser plugin too, that has been pointed out as a plus by some
<janimo> but I remember now, I looked at gxine and it brings in some javascript libarry too
<janimo> to script gxine using javascript via lirc
<janimo> crazy dependencies
<nomed> Mithrandir, ok
<pitti> infinity: but it's only a 'very' local variable...
<infinity> crimsun: As previously stated, if the fix/change is correct, then the surrounding unchanged code now looks wrong.
<Riddell> pitti: do you have an opinion on re-enabling 3DES-EDE-CBC for ssl in Konqueror?
<pitti> infinity: hm, I only see two then-blocks where this is changed, and these blocks contain both the rbuf declaration and its usage
<StevenK> Awwww, mdz hasn't replied to my sync mail.
<infinity> pitti: Oh, hrm.  I missed the sketchy s/rbuf/rbuf[4] /
<pitti> Riddell: erm, not off-hand; is there something wrong with it? I'm not aware of any weaknesses in 3DES
<infinity> pitti: No, I was referring to the } else { block right after the patched portions.  It's in the context of the diff.
<pitti> infinity: you mean the else part needs the same fix?
<infinity> pitti: But I suspect it's just som intentionally inconsistency designed to make people like me tear their hair out.
<Riddell> pitti: the konqueror developers seem to think it is a weak cypher, discussion is at http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=124684 but apparantly it breaks some bank's websites so I'm thinking about re-enabling it
<Ubugtu> KDE bug 124684 in kssl "Konqueror is unable to access URL, other browsers work fine" [Normal,Closed: wontfix]  
<infinity> pitti: Not knowing the real context, I have no idea, TBH.  But that was my concern.  Changing it in the if, but not the else, looked a bit suspicious.
<pitti> crimsun: ^ agreed; any idea about that?
<pitti> the current patch doesn't make it worse; at worst, it just doesn't fix everything
<crimsun> pitti: takashi seemed to imply it was intentionally inconsistent
<crimsun> pitti: I've been testing it for two days on an amd64 machine and haven't been able to reproduce the bug
<infinity> If that was definitely commuicated sanely in both directions and he checked the else block, I'm cool with that.
<infinity> And yes, half a fix is better than no fix anyway, even if it is "wrong, but working better". :)
<infinity> It's entirely possible the else block never even triggers on your setup.
<infinity> Or, rather, triggers but no-ops in a reasonably harmless way.
<pitti> yes, the condition looks like it's pretty static
* infinity shrugs.
<infinity> I know so little of alsa that I'll defer.  I was just dutifully doing patch review when asked. :)
<pitti> crimsun: maybe you can ask him again? anyway, I'll upload the current fix now; even if it's incomplete, it fixes enough to be worth uploaded/tested at larger scale
<crimsun> pitti: will do
<pitti> infinity: thanks for your eagle-eye! I didn't pay attention to that bit
<pitti> crimsun: uploaded
<crimsun> pitti: thank you
<crimsun> infinity: thank you, too
<StevenK> pitti: Got a sec (or two)?
<pitti> StevenK: go ahead :)
<StevenK> pitti: I just need a hand with pkgstriptranslations, and ajmitch pointed the finger at you.
<StevenK> pitti: I uploaded a new version of ldaptor to the archive, and it FTBFS due to pkgstriptranslations failing saying one of the PO/POT files is empty.
<pitti> StevenK: indeed, it's supposed to catch these cases, since they usually point to a bug in the packaging
<pitti> StevenK: we rely on up to date and valid POT files to not screw up rosetta
<StevenK> pitti: I'm more to willing to admit it's a bug, but where do I start looking?
<Kamion> (last time an empty POT file made it to the archive, it crashed the publisher)
<StevenK> Kamion: Oh, whee.
<pitti> StevenK: is the POT file regenerated automatically at build time?
<StevenK> ... ldaptor has a POT file?
<StevenK> I guess it does.
<Kamion> obviously the publisher crash is a bug too
<pitti> StevenK: if the file is just there and never touched, and ldaptr doesn't have po files, just rm it in debian/rules
<pitti> StevenK: OTOH, if it does have translations, the fixing the pot file is the right way to do
<Kamion> phew, bug 41921 fixed. check out that list of duplicates
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 41921 in debconf "strange EINTR in keyboard chooser" [Major,Fix released]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/41921
<StevenK> -rw-r--r--  1 steven users    0 2005-02-22 05:22 ldaptor.pot
<StevenK> Hrrrm
<janimo> pitti, have an updated link to packages missing pot in main? want to check if latest uploads had effect
<pitti> StevenK: does the orig.tar.gz ship that?
<pitti> janimo: let me look
<StevenK> pitti: Yup.
<pitti> StevenK: are there any *.po files outside of debian/ ?
<pitti> janimo: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/13276 looks good
<StevenK> pitti: They're all under po
<pitti> janimo: only two xfce packages left
<janimo> yup, I did not yet upload those. thanks
<pitti> StevenK: okay, then it should somehow be possible to generate a pot file
<pitti> StevenK: does the package use intltool?
<StevenK> pitti: Nope.
<Kamion> Riddell: is your ubiquity branch good to merge?
<pitti> StevenK: anything in po/Makefile that looks like 'update-pot' or so?
<Riddell> Kamion: yes, go for it
<StevenK> There is no po/Makefile.
<StevenK> pitti: I'm chrooting into Dapper to disect the bloody thing.
<Kamion> Riddell: is it just me, or do you still have some code that refers to self.gparted_subp even though that's been renamed?
<Kamion> e.g. in gparted_to_mountpoints
<_ion> Bug #42397 is nasty. :-(
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 42397 in gdm "Can't register Xsession on dapper beta" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/42397
<Riddell> Kamion: hmm yes, let me change that and upload
<janimo> Kamion, around when is next flight/beta due?
<Kamion> Riddell: please don't upload yet
<Kamion> janimo: dunno yet, kinda depends on how ubiquity bugs are going
<Kamion> Riddell: (if you mean a package upload)
<Riddell> Kamion: done. upload to my bzr repository I ment
<Kamion> ah, right, thanks :)
<janimo> Kamion, can it happen with less than 2 days notice though?
<Kamion> janimo: I'd been thinking about doing Flight 7 this Thursday, but I suspect that doesn't leave enough time for development, so probably early next week
<janimo> ok
<Mithrandir> Kamion: I can handle F7 unless you want to.
<Kamion> Riddell: thanks, merged/pushed
<ssam> ogra, sivang simple-prog-app spec/soc, i think i could give it a go. i am sure i could learn what i needed
<Kamion> Mithrandir: might be a good plan
<Diziet> pitti: gs-esp 8.15.2.  Ooo.  I'll take a look, but my initial feeling is positive.
<pitti> Diziet: mine, too, but it has some new features according to the changelog; it should get along better with our cups, though
<Diziet> There are a couple of bugs in there that I recognise from my triage.
<Diziet> Also, apparently, some security fixes.
<Diziet> I'll download it and diff it and see what it's like.
<pitti> Diziet: thanks
<Keybuk> Kamion: are syncs working yet, do you know?
<Kamion> Keybuk: dunno - was due for today's rollout, but I didn't see any noise about that
<_ion> In addition to not being able to start gnome, that bug causes the effective gid to be 0 (root).
<bddebian> Morning people
<_ion> Good evening.
<bddebian> Oh, yeah, I gotta do that TimeOfDay() thing don't I :)
* bddebian hugs Kamion
<Kamion> RAID disks don't show up in /dev/mapper/, do they?
<Mithrandir> Kamion: they don't.
<Kamion> hmm, maybe just blacklist /dev/mapper/*-*, anything else could be dmraid
<nomed> ogra, did u write down anything for that "branding gui tool" ?
<nomed> i can't find specs anywhere ..
<ogra> nomed, not yet, its for eft and i dont have the time now to write another spec
<ogra> we'll likely discuss it at the conference in june
<nomed> ok thanks .. i'll wait
<ogra> feel free to open a wikipage and add suggestions there :)
<nomed> ehehe .. same problem as you .. but i'll do that if possible
<ogra> basic idea is that you make all changes to the artwork etc and can create a -artwork package with one click from the current setup
<ogra> which you then can add to a customized CD
<nomed> ogra, yep i got it :)
<nomed> i was thinking to additional tools as ..
<nomed> generate or port an icon-theme reading legacy xml file from icon naming
<bddebian> elmo: ping?
<nomed> or modify gfxboot colors
<ogra> that'll get a bit tricky 
<nomed> i know
<ogra> gfxbot isnt fun according to Kamion's comm#ents when he worked on it 
<nomed> but as i've already some code done i guess it'll not be difficult to add it as possible plugin
<nomed> ogra, that's true
<nomed> but if it was possible to move colors defs within a themerc file
<nomed> that would be easier
<ogra> true
<nomed> ogra, then .. if i'm not wrong librsvg now supports css like stuff
<bddebian> Kamion: Do you have a minute by any chance?
<nomed> if would be cool if it was possible to define icons colors within a css like file
<ogra> nomed, but thats beyond such a tool
<ogra> at least unless its implemented in gnome to make use of it
<nomed> ogra, well .. 
<Kamion> bddebian: sure
<nomed> probably inkscape should support it more then gnome ..
<nomed> i think if librsvg con support it .. gnome can too
<nomed> but i didn't check it yet
<ogra> still its more suited for gnome theme management than for a branding tool
<bddebian> Kamion: You chastised me (and probably rightfully so) about subscribing ubuntu-archive.  Do you have any thoughts about how I should be better escalate questions/issues?  python2.1 is a good example.
<Kamion> bddebian: mailing people generally responsible for that area (for example, Matthias Klose maintains python and is an Ubuntu guy, so is a good place to start for that sort of thing) is one approach; if you can't find anyone else, mailing ubuntu-devel@ would be appropriate
<Kamion> mail is good if IRC doesn't work, as not everyone watches IRC all the time
<bddebian> Kamion: OK, fair enough
<nomed> ogra, true
<nomed> if your derivatives is using gnome :)
<nomed> anyway still early for that stuff :)
<mdke> dholbach: ubuntu-docs is ready for another upload, when you next have time (no urgency)
<dholbach> mdke: rock on
* bddebian points dholbach to motu-uvf stuff :-)
<dholbach> bddebian: don't forget to point slomo and siretart too :)
<Mithrandir> TheMuso: please test casper tomorrow and verify that the a11y bugs on the live cd have been fixed.
<bddebian> Where has siretart been lately?
<siretart> bddebian: at work. beginning master thesis
<bddebian> So I have a serious question that is probably going to get laughed at.  How many of you would freak if I eventually went for main?
<bddebian> siretart: Oh, excellent
<fabbione> Kamion: bug #32845 ... we might have to find a way to exclude only LVM volumes.. dmraid and other trickery use that path for their devices. it doesn't matter for dapper, but for edgy it mostlikely will
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 32845 in partman-auto "Should stop partman-auto from showing LVM volumes" [Normal,Fix released]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/32845
<stockholm> Keybuk: do you have a twin in sweden, with a kid?
<stockholm> they guy even moves like you
<Keybuk> stockholm: not that I'm aware :)
<Diziet> fabbione: See also Malone 41624.
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 41624 in partman-basicfilesystems "aggressive volume discovery => data loss" [Major,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/41624
<Mithrandir> mjg59: hmm, vbetool segfaulting when trying to enter suspend mode on an amd64; is this known?
<stockholm> Keybuk: check with your parents, perhaps. 
<Mithrandir> mjg59: (desktop, nvidia binary drivers)
<mjg59> Mithrandir: vbetool isn't supposed to be executing when suspending
<Kamion> fabbione: dmraid doesn't seem to have a "-" in the basename of the device; I only excluded /dev/mapper/*-*
<Kamion> Diziet: unrelated
<mjg59> Oh, right, for the DPMS
<mjg59> Erm
<mjg59> Could be a bug in vbetool, could be BIOS madness
<mjg59> Take your pick
<mjg59> Oh, sorry, it also runs later
<Keybuk> stockholm: I'm aware of my family tree back at least half a dozen generations, to my knowledge I have no swedish cousins :)
<Diziet> Kamion: Err, they seem vaguely related in the sense that the consequences of partman-auto being encourating about LVM might also be bad.
<mjg59> Mithrandir: I think this is a "Figure out what's up with vbetool" sort of situation
<Kamion> Diziet: unless your primary complaint in 41624 was that the LVM volumes appeared in the autopartitioner; that part will be fixed
<Kamion> Diziet: but that wasn't my sense of the bug
<fabbione> Diziet: unrelated really.
<Keybuk>   -7199.362272  add@/class/misc/rtc
<Keybuk> *giggle*
<Keybuk> man, I hate that
<Mithrandir> mjg59: I think it might have crashed earlier.  Anyway, it refuses to suspend, or rather suspends (both displays powered off), then immediately comes back.  Where should I start digging to give you an useful error message?
<fabbione> Kamion: as i said, for dapper is no issue at all.. you can discard all of mapper/*
<Keybuk> (event processed by udevd 2 hours *before* it was sent by the kernel/udevplug)
<stockholm> bye
<fabbione> Kamion: we only have lvm2 and multipath-tools as official clients that uses mapper/
<mjg59> Mithrandir: I don't really understand the x86 emulation at all
<siretart> bddebian: regarding my ubuntu work: I'm currently rather focusing on wpasupplicant, uvf reports and work on unmet deps. so I'm still around :)
<Kamion> Diziet: I also don't think we should disable the ability of the (install CD's) partitioner's ability to understand LVM just because a couple of people might have a hibernated operating system with some LVM state and fail to know about it when installing an operating system!
<mjg59> Mithrandir: As for the failure to suspend, dmesg?
<mjg59> vbetool shouldn't be inhibiting that in any way
<Mithrandir> mjg59: vbetool segfaults after I've resumed so I'll look at that later.
<Kamion> Diziet: (assuming that lvdisplay and such are safe)
<bddebian> siretart: That wasn't a slam, I just haven't "seen" you on IRC much :)
<mjg59> Mithrandir: It's almost certainly segfaulting due to an x86emu issue
<zakame> siretart: hey, thanks for the comment on 42055
<Mithrandir> mjg59: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/13280 is the dmesg
<siretart> bddebian: thats right. I'm perhaps a bit quiter on ubuntu irc channels, but I'm still around and active. I'm currently preparing myself for NM (and debian work in general), but I still work dapper :)
<zakame> siretart: you got an AM now right?
<bddebian> siretart: WHAT?? Traitor.. ;-P
<siretart> zakame: not yet
<siretart> bddebian: there are more DDs in this channel than you may think ;)
<bddebian> siretart: Oh, I know :-)
<zakame> ooh, slomo and sladen are waiting for AM too :D
<mjg59> Mithrandir: The dmesg from the failed suspend?
<Mithrandir> mjg59: yes.  I suspended at 16:38:40
<Mithrandir> mjg59: I have removed about ten screenfulls of nv_sata whining, though
<Mithrandir> (line 42)
<mjg59> May  2 16:38:50 xoog kernel: [  612.676639]  swsusp: Cannot find swap device, try swapon -a.
<Mithrandir> duh, that kinda explains it
<Mithrandir> why don't I have swap?
<mjg59> Mithrandir: Failed suspend at some point?
<mjg59> I thought initramfs-tools was supposed to make sure the partition was good after a failed resume, but I'm not sure if it actually does that
<Mithrandir> mjg59: I seem not to have a swap partition
<mjg59> Mithrandir: Ah!
<Mithrandir> mjg59: I just created one, let's see if it works better this time around. :-)
<mjg59> Mithrandir: Remember to add it to mkinitramfs.conf and regenerate the initramfs
<pitti> sfllaw: just a note, please do not assign security bugs for universe packages to ubuntu-security; I'm afraid I don't have enough time to fix them. CC'ing me is fine and welcome, of course :)
<bddebian> doko: ping?
<pitti> sfllaw: on that note, may I introduce you to http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/ubuntu-cve/ ? It's an automatically updated status of our security issues in all releases; maybe it might help you with bug triage sometimes
<doko> bddebian: pong
<sfllaw> pitti: Thanks.
<sfllaw> pitti: Have I done that by accident yet?
<sfllaw> I know I've touched one bug where I attached a CVE.
<pitti> sfllaw: yes, bug 41781
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 41781 in xine-ui "Missing format string, possibly exploitable" [Unknown,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/41781
<pitti> Seveas: btw, ^ any chance that this displays the Ubuntu task status?
<pitti> Seveas: unknown/unconfirmed is the Debian task, it's fixed in ubuntnu
<Seveas> pitti, "unconfirmed" is currently considered more interesting than "fixreleased"
<Seveas> pre-sorting on distro may be a useful addition, opens a nice new can of worms 
<bddebian> doko: I got the impression that you were OK with removing jython and python2.1?  Was I incorrect?
<sfllaw> pitti: Thanks.
<doko> bddebian: that's ok
<bddebian> doko: BTW, I pulled jython 2.2a from sourceforge.  It's a mess :-(
<pitti> Seveas: oh, nevermind then; it just sprang into my eye
<doko> bddebian: yes, see the comments on the debian bug reports
<Diziet> Kamion: Oh, I see what you mean now, and I agree.
<bddebian> doko: I ask because infinity seemed to disagree (about python2.1):  Bug #41510
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 41510 in python2.1 "[UNMETDEPS]  python2.1 has unmet dependencies" [Normal,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/41510
<_ion> Does this not affect every gdm user? https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/gdm/+bug/42397
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 42397 in gdm "Can't register Xsession on dapper beta" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  
<Mithrandir> mjg59: apart from the nvidia drivers not being amused, that seemed to work.
<Mithrandir> mjg59: that might be related to the vbetool crash, though
<nomed> dholbach, around ?
<ogra> Kamion/mdz, if a debian package was in experimental for a while, do you want these changelog entries as well in a UVF exception request ? 
<nomed> what's the best solution in your opinion for those lapo's icons ?
<ogra> or is the sid changelog enough ?
<ogra> (experimental adds a lot of noise i think)
<dholbach> nomed: yes
<Diziet> When does the update-notifier applet check for new entries in user.d ?
<seb128> _ion: I would not have uploaded a bugged package if it didn't work for me if that's what you suggest
<Diziet> (For that matter, where is the documentation ??)
<nomed> dholbach, lapo sent me some icons .. he told me even you know they exist (?)
<dholbach> nomed: um, what am I supposed to do now?
<mvo> Diziet: it checks after package updates (when /var/lib/update-notifier/dpkg-was-run was touched)
<nomed> do u think they should go tango-icon-theme-foo
<nomed> or in xubuntu-icon-theme ?
<nomed> *go in*
<Diziet> mvo: Oh, so if I say `dpkg -i' it doesn't notice ?
<mvo> Diziet: the documentation is on thw wiki https://wiki.ubuntu.com/InteractiveUpgradeHooks
<_ion> seb128: Let me rephrase my question: "i wonder why this affects some gdm users and not others"
<mvo> Diziet: yes
<dholbach> nomed: I'm going to write a mail to ubuntu-art later
<seb128> _ion: to reply to that somebody having the issue would have to debug it
<mvo> Diziet: it hooks into apts config system
<nomed> dholbach, ok
<Diziet> #include <stdrant.h>   Thanks.
<_ion> seb128: I took a look at the code, but didn't find anything so far.
<mvo> Diziet: sorry, this could be changed (with some pain)
<seb128> _ion: it used to work with 2.14.0 right? so that's probably something that changed between 2.14.0 and 2.14.4
<Diziet> mvo: check /var/lib/dpkg/status instead ?  (OK, not guaranteed to always work, but guaranteed to work if dpkg exited zero.)
<_ion> Where could i find the 2.14.0 source package?
<dAndy_> Kamion: re #38111 the new package fixed it for me, the bug is already marked as a duplicate, do I need to do anything else?
<_ion> seb128?
<seb128> _ion: the distro patches didn't change, you can use tarball from ftp.gnome.org or http://cvs.gnome.org to figure what changed
<_ion> seb128: Ok.
<seb128> _ion: http://cvs.gnome.org/viewcvs/gdm2/ChangeLog?r1=1.1419&r2=1.1420
<seb128> _ion: http://cvs.gnome.org/viewcvs/gdm2/daemon/slave.c?r1=1.325&r2=1.326 
<seb128> _ion: that might be the fix you want
<seb128> _ion: if you could rebuild a package with the patch and confirm the fix I would appreciate
<_ion> seb128: I'll do that.
<seb128> ta
<mjg59> Mithrandir: The vbetool crash can probably be ignored
<mjg59> Mithrandir: Unless it doesn't crash on x86 on the same hardware
<dholbach> mdke: you're ok with http://daniel.holba.ch/ubuntu/debdiff.txt?
<mdke> dholbach: checking
<dholbach> mdke: thanks
<doko> Diziet, pitti: do you see the gs-esp 8.15.2 as an option?
<pitti> doko: I do, and if mdz and Diziet are fine with the changes, I'd appreciate it
<doko> great
<bddebian> doko: Oh yeah, one other quick question.  I was ripping python2.1 out of pychecker.  Should I remove 2.2 at the same time?  (Not that I can upload the change anyway but)
<mdke> dholbach: perfect thanks
<dholbach> mdke: rock on
<dholbach> mdke: done
<Diziet> doko: Yes, I think so, but I want to take a quick look at the code as well as the changelog.
<doko> bddebian: sure, why not
<seb128> _ion: are you trying that patch? just curious to know if I should upload with it and close the bug now :)
<seb128> :)
<bddebian> doko: OK, one last question, I promise :-)  What's the best way to get someone on the main side to do that for me?  File a bug?
<_ion> seb128: Still building. My machine isn't the fastest one on the block. :-)
<mdke> dholbach: thanks a lot :)
<dholbach> mdke: de rien
<seb128> _ion: no problem, if you are working on it that's good enough, I'll wait ;)
<_ion> seb128: With http://johan.kiviniemi.name/tmp/gdm-debian-patches-20_egid.patch it works. \o/
<bddebian> Heya \sh
<seb128> _ion: thank you, I'll upload the package I've ready for it
<\sh> huhu bddebian
<seb128> _ion: fixed version uploaded
<_ion> seb128: Thanks.
<seb128> np, thank you for trying the patch
<Gloubiboulga> dholbach, ping
<ogra> doko, is openoffice (writer for example) to open with an empty document if you start it ?
<ogra> s/to/supposed to/
<doko> seb128: to hide a menu entry, you have to add "NoDisplay=true, but alacarte cannot find that entry. or was this another attribute? 
<doko> ogra: yes
<ogra> doko, seems that doesnt happen in current edubuntu beta2 ... is there a bug open about that ?
<seb128> doko: NoDisplay=true is right, that would an alacarte bug then
<seb128> doko: it lists the others item we changed
<sladen> pitti: is it worth getting ~pitti/ubuntu-cve/ linked somewhere more openly?
<sladen> pitti: as a way of saying "look, here's our security status", it would be awesome
<sladen> pitti: does it expose any undisclosed/embargoed vulns?
<doko> seb128: ok, thanks, maybe the bug submitter is wrong. works for me
<nomed> janimo, do u get|understand that xfburn reply? 
<pitti> sladen: no, it doesn't disclose embargoed ones
<pitti> sladen: eventually this should be moved into proper Malone functionality
<janimo> nomed, let me check. I just saw one and read the list a minute ago.
<pitti> sladen: but if you have an idea where to link it from, that would certainly be nice
<\sh> sladen: would be better if ubuntu is listed in the cert advisory MLs
<janimo> nomed, oh never mind. that's irrelevant. I asked the author
<janimo> these kinds of answers just > /dev/null
<sladen> \sh: I'm thinking as a PR tool for our [potential]  users
<dholbach> Gloubiboulga: pong
<nomed> janimo, if u have to ask to an xubuntu developer i guess that's an endless loop :)
<janimo> yup :)
<Gloubiboulga> dholbach, can I send you patches for goffice and gnumeric for a review?
<dholbach> Gloubiboulga: new goffice patch?
<Gloubiboulga> dholbach, yes
<dholbach> Gloubiboulga: can you do a bug report?
<dholbach> Gloubiboulga: so the whole desktop team can look at it?
<\sh> sladen: do you think security related reports are good "PR"? we should focus more on "we don't have viruses, we have less trojans and wurms then vista will have" ;)
<Gloubiboulga> dholbach, ok, the thing is I don't want a new uplod if the gnumeric patch is not ok
<janimo> nomed, I reread the mail and will assume he misread mine and does not know I work on xubuntu, rather than assume it's the typical kneejerk reaction from another distro's developer
<dholbach> Gloubiboulga: sure
<Gloubiboulga> dholbach, I'll reopen the goffice bug and link to the new gnumeric one then :)
<dholbach> Gloubiboulga: thanks
<dholbach> Gloubiboulga: that's super
<Gloubiboulga> :)
<doko> infinity: when you are awake, please could you reschedule openoffice.org-l10n? a local build succeeds.
<Diziet> What's the conventional naming scheme for a .dfsg...orig.tar.gz which we create ahead of Debian ?
<Gloubiboulga> janimo, I've suscribed you to the gnumeric bug
<janimo> Gloubiboulga: thanks
<sladen> \sh: a question I've been asked more than once is "what's Ubuntu security update track record like"
<sladen> \sh: thanks to pitti, it's better than most distro's :)
<\sh> sladen: asked by whom? normal user or or normal freak?
<sladen> \sh: corporate types, potential users and normal users
<\sh> sladen: so normal freaks :) normal users don't think about "security" they think about "can I play doom3 on it" :)
<\sh> sladen: see windows :)
<Kamion> \sh: you need a different type of PR to communicate with people doing corporate rollouts than you need to communicate with home users. Good PR involves both.
<\sh> Kamion: corporate users will need professional PR...and a professional webpage which tells them "trust us, we know what we are doing"...so we are far away from that...community based is a good thing, coporate users needs more love then the "normal community"...
<sladen> \sh: generally who ever they are, they need an answer to their question.
<sladen> \sh: s/their/_*their*_/
<\sh> Kamion: I got the feeling that "Hey, this linux is sponsored by m.s." is more worth then "we have Pitti who is fixing all security issues"...you know what I mean
<Diziet> 8.15.2.dfsg.0ubuntu1-0ubuntu1 ??
<LaserJock> \sh: "normal" community? we are a bug smashing, desktop rocking community ;-) 
<\sh> LaserJock: gnarf ;)
<\sh> sladen: and we need a better presentation of some stuff which is for the "corporate and business faction"
<sladen> \sh: not sure about the word 'need'.  But providing (being open with) information and statistics that have already been produced is on the whole good;  allowing other people to feel that they are making their own judgements
<Kamion> \sh: that depends on whether you're trying to market to the CEO or to the sysadmin
<Kamion> (ideally, you want both)
<\sh> Kamion: yeah, most of the time, the sysadmin says "yes, this is the thing we want" and then comes the CEO...would be solved with a better representation of the "supported product" (actually this is what I'm trying to do right now with the new job :))
<LaserJock> Seveas: PING?
<LaserJock> Seveas: ack, sorry for the caps
<Seveas> LaserJock, PNG
<_ion> png
<Seveas> haha
<Keybuk> 
<bddebian> mdz: Ping?
<Keybuk> or just 
<mdz> bddebian: here
<bddebian> mdz: If jython is removed, the rdepends for python2.1 are gone.  Except pychecker but infinity says it's not necessary.  I have a patch to remove the | python2.1 from pychecker
<Kamion> no need to remove alternate deps, as infinity says
<mdz> bddebian: as I said in the bug, pychecker should depend on 'python' and nothing else, but in any case it was not an issue for removing python2.1
<bddebian> Well as always, it comes back to how far to deviate from Debian?  Of course I can't touch any of them anyway since they are in main.
<mdz> bddebian: but I see several python2.1-* modules which *are* blocking this removal
<kyr0> hi
<mdz> bddebian: and they are all in universe
<bddebian> Ack, where'd idle-python2.1 come from?  Hmm
<mdz> bddebian: "apt-cache showpkg python2.1" will show you the binary package deps; there may be some build-deps as well
<bddebian> Hello kyr0
<mdz> Kamion: do we have a new melanie -n or whatever it was, which will list all of the packages which would be broken by a removal?  that output could go in the bug report
<kyr0> hello all, i'm developing on a brand new instant messaging solution called "ubuntu meetings". devel language is java. ubuntu meetings holds user data in a hsqldb as database backend. the frontend will be created using the SWT toolkit...
<zyga> hey there kyr0 
<bddebian> mdz: I'll check manually.  I don't know what kind of crack I am on, sorry
<tseng> why is it called ubuntu?
<Keybuk> mdz: there's checkrdepends on drescher
<Kamion> what Keybuk said
<Kamion> what's the bug report?
<zyga> kyrr0: is it developed already or are you still planning?
<Kamion> (never mind, found it)
<bddebian> Python2.2-xml provides python2.1-xml and python2.2-xml.. heh
<Diziet> Ah, excellent, the random incomprehensible hieroglyphs language I chose doesn't have the whole partitioner translated so I feel quite confident I'm not trashing my disk.
<Diziet> I turned out to be Chinese (Simplified).
<Diziet> s/I/It/ # ur
<kyr0> tseng: because the inner/deeper sense of this messenger is to bring the people together. in my vision ubuntu meetings sould implement a tiny version of google earth using free nasa map material and opengodb. so there would be the possibillity that all the people can put notes on the global map and tell their problems and why they need help etc. so people of the world can help them immediately :) 
<bddebian> Damnit
<kyr0> tseng: ubuntu meetings also sould have groups with bullitin board etc. like orkut
* bddebian gets to work removing python2.1 stuff
<\sh> kyr0: you checked jabber.org already? a jabber google map is already active and we have lot of "chat applications" xmpp ready (as well written in java)
<tseng> kyr0: sounds like a pretty ambitious project
<kyr0> \sh: ubuntu meetings should be basend on XMPP
<tseng> kyr0: maybe you could spec out the major features for a 1.0 release
<\sh> kyr0: cool...talk to some people from jadmin-devel, they can help you to implement some stuff e.g. pubsub for bulletin boards etc. or blogging via jabber...it's all there :)
<kyr0> tseng: yeah :) i'm on it ;) but i think it shouldn't be a "one man show". thats why i talk to you here ;)
<\sh> just the "java part" you should replace with "python" because ubuntus main scripting language is "python" ;)
<zyga> hehe
<zyga> and java sucks memory :/
<mdz> Diziet: what happened with the firefox pango change I requested?
<kyr0> hmm I'm not a python developer. i dont like python because of it's syntax...
<zyga> kyr0: it's your choice but make sure that free java works as well as sun-java for this app
<\sh> zyga: "Free java"?
<kyr0> zyga: blackdown? classpath?
<\sh> zyga: "gcj"?
<zyga> \sh: the apt-gettable java
<kyr0> blackdown jre :)
<zyga> \sh: I really don't know - I don't use java recently
<\sh> zyga: ok..you mean gcj and blackdown then..."free as in free beer" :)
* zyga want's sun to open source the damn thing
<zyga> OTOH reading java source is really amusing sometimes
* zyga encourages everyone to read the Integer and Byte class :)
<kyr0> it's possible to write damn cool code in java too :)
<Diziet> Oh dear, the install failed.  Hrm.
<zyga> kyr0: my personal opinion is that java is average :/
<kyr0> zyga: in some cases java performs better than c++ 
<Diziet> mdz: It's included in my current version and I wanted to test that I hadn't broken CJK support, which is why I was trying to install Dapper in Chinese just now.
<Diziet> But I think this is getting out of hand and I should just upload it.
<kyr0> zyga: but the gui toolkit swing/awt is damn slow...
<zyga> kyr0: yes I know, I used to do some research in java
<kyr0> zyga: thats why i choose the _native_ toolkit swt
<zyga> I was talking about the language itself
<Diziet> I have about 0% chance of being able to sanely report a bug in the Chinese install ...
<zyga> anyway: this is not a place for this discussion :)
<kyr0> you're right :) btw: i tried the graphical installer on the dapper beta live-cd ;) the parition-gui was a horror :) 
<Kamion> Diziet: at the moment I'm happy to take even ill-formed installer bugs; it's better that than have them possibly go unnoticed
<Kamion> kyr0: constructive bug reports welcome; it's certainly wholeheartedly acknowledged to be not as good as it could be
<Diziet> Kamion: OK.  Well, err, I'll report it then.  It was from the daily a few days ago.  Does that matter ?
<Kamion> merging the mountpoints page into gparted is the number one thing that would help, but is also hard
<Diziet> 20060426.1
<Kamion> Diziet: probably not; feel free to run the gist of the failure by me in /msg though if you want a quick known/unknown check
<mdz> Diziet: I don't think that changing the firefox wrapper script would break the installation process
<Diziet> OK.
<Diziet> mdz: No, but I wanted to test that a Chinese Dapper would still be able to view web pages with my change to the wrapper script.
<lucas> could somebody help me move forward with bug #34155 ?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 34155 in Ubuntu "sleep and hibernate don't work on Dell C640 (regression from breezy)" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/34155
<bddebian> doko: Still around?
<Diziet> But to test that I need to install a Chinese Dapper.
<lucas> I reported it two months ago, and it's _really_ annoying
<mdz> Diziet: no, you can use a Chinese locale in an existing install
<Treenaks> Is it a bug that Firefox shows an authentication realm name as iso-8859-1 (even when it's UTF-8)? Or is the RFC that specifies HTTP authentication braindead?
<Diziet> mdz: IME I'm not 100% accurate at getting the setup to look just like a real install.  This is particularly relevant here, where I may be keying my switch off the wrong thing.
<mdz> or boot the live CD into Chinese for that matter
<mdz> Diziet: what are you keying off of?
<Diziet> mdz: existence or otherwise of various lines of the form  xy_  in files /var/lib/locales/supported.d/*[^~] 
<Diziet> Err, lines starting xy_
<Diziet> FVO xy in the rather ad-hoc list.
<Diziet> mdz: I tested that it worked for Spanish since I had a Spanish and I nobbled it to think es_ was CJK.
<Diziet> I think the right answer now is to upload it.
<Tonio_> hi everyone
<pitti> Diziet: not sure what you are trying to do, but installing language-pack-zh should give you translations, setup locales, etc.
<Diziet> pitti: I want to check that I'm not about to break Chinese users' web browsers.
<pitti> Diziet: 'sudo locale-gen zh_CN.UTF-8; LANGUAGE= LANG=zu_CN.UTF-8 firefox' will start ffox under chinese locale
<pitti> mozilla-firefox-locale-zh-cn must be installed, of course
<pitti> s/zu/zh/
<Diziet> Urr.  zn isn't in the list of pango-requiring locales.  But it does seem to work.  OK.
<Diziet> pitti: Thanks.
<pitti> no problem
<Diziet> Finally, I find a language where XY.wikipedia.org looks significantly different with and without pango.  XY=kn
<Seveas> kn? What's that?
<Diziet> Not sure.
<Diziet> kn.wikipedia.org is entirely in kn, which I can't read :-).
<Seveas> hehe
<Diziet> Very pretty script it has.
<Seveas> kannada
<Seveas> http://kn.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Kannada_Support
<_ion> Canadian
<mdke> mdz: do you need some kind of special permissions to have a "milestone dropdown"? My page doesn't show it. Only Status, Severity, Priority.
<Seveas> it's unintelligible enough to be canadian
* Seveas runs & hides
<mdz> mdke: ->#launchpad
<mdke> ok
<nmsa> hello
<nmsa> Kamion, did u find ok the installer syslog on big-Id 42343 ?
<bddebian> Oh, did syncs get fixed today??
<nmsa> not sure why I got the first time the error, but was there
<mdke> nmsa: he gets his bugs, don't worry
<nmsa> mdke: I know, just want to know if needs something else extra :) to help fixing the problem, can't replicate it no more ...
<mdke> nmsa: he'll ask on the bug if he needs anything. He gets a lot of bugs, so triaging them over irc sometimes isn't efficient
<nmsa> mdke: ok :) sorry
<ifmy> hello
<ifmy> I don't know where I can ask help for that, but I've a problem with launchpad
<ifmy> I don't receive any email when I subscribe to a bug
<LaserJock> ifmy: #launchpad
<ifmy> oki, thx
<LaserJock> np
<ifmy> \join #launchpad
<ifmy> shit
<bddebian> heh
<mdke> Kinnison: ping?
<pitti> does anyone here have a parallel printer and some minutes to debug it with me?
<Diziet> I have a parallel printer but I have to go out and deliver some leaflets before it gets dark.  If you don't find anyone, ask me tomorrow.
<pitti> Diziet: thanks
<Diziet> NP
<Diziet> I haven't done anything yet :-).
<ogra> you solidarized :)
* Diziet threatens ogra with a soldering iron.
<ogra> eek
<ogra> all these blisters
* ogra cries
<Burgwork> Diziet, is that I blood I see on your back from self flagulation?
* Diziet goes to leaflet, really.
* ogra thinks he should use his dictionary more often instead of guessing words :)
<mdke> ogra: s/guessing/creating :)
<ogra> hehe
<mdke> creating words is to be encouraged
<ogra> isnt that synonymous?
<mdke> elmo: got a moment?
<_ion> Btw., the current default background image is really great, especially when compared to the default background in breezy.
<ogra> mdz, if a debian package was in experimental for a while, do you want these changelog entries as well in a UVF exception request ? 
<ogra> seems there are a lot of clashing entries if i diff the changelogs of dia 0.95 and 0.94
<ogra> only the sid entries dont clash
<mdz> ogra: I don't understand what you mean by clashing entries
<mdz> ogra: what I need to see is what has changed between the current dapper package and the proposed package
<ogra> mdz, the 0.95 package was uploaded and developed in experimental while in parallel the 0.94 package was uploaded to sid since there were often uploads at the same day to both, there are clashing entries if i diff the changelogs, that resolves when the experimental package was moved to unstable
<ogra> i'll just add the complete changelog from the last release our package has+
<ogra> its just confusing that there were uploads to different repos at the same day
<mdz> ogra: if I tell you that I don't understand 'clashing entries', it helps to clarify without using the phrase 'clashing entries' :-)
<ogra> (partially with the same changes to both packages)
<ogra> same change in experimental and sid on the same day to different packages with different versions ;)
<mdz> ogra: are you saying that the changes from experimental are missing from the changelog in unstable?
<ogra> nope, but the same changes were in 0.94-something and 0.95-pre-something on the same day
<ogra> while -pre-something is the experimental package
<mdz> which one are you suggesting that we use? the unstable package or the experimental package?
<mdz> I only need the changelogs for the changes you are suggesting we merge
<ogra> the experimental package moved to unstable when it dropped the -pre status
<ogra> and when 0.94 was superseded by 0.95 in sid
<mdz> it doesn't matter where the package has been, only what has changed relative to our package
<ogra> i want to sync the one from sid indeed (i wouldnt sync anything from experimental at this stage)
<ogra> ok
<mdz> then send me the logs which describe changes from dapper to sid
<ogra> yep
<welshbyte> anyone know a way of making update-notifier think there are updates so i can test it?
<welshbyte> oops meant to ask that in #ubuntu-bugs
<uniq> downgrade a package maybe? 
<ogra> with luck there are updates if you run sudo apt-get update :)
<welshbyte> ogra: i've just installed all upgrades recently :/
<mdz> mvo: was there a problem with your mail?  I seem to have just received several messages from you which were sent last week or so
<ogra> mvo, i had the same at -activity this morning
<uniq> welshbyte: then downgrade a package. 'apt-get install package=version'
<welshbyte> uniq: ah great, thanks
<mdz> uniq,welshbyte: downgrades are unsafe; you should always purge and then install the older version instead
<uniq> roger that.
<mdz> even if it appears to work, it's not uncommon for it to have put the package in a bad state
<ompaul> mdz, if you have a moment do you want to take on that little irc bot is not right 
<welshbyte> mdz: noted, thanks :)
<mdz> ompaul: I haven't  deleted your message
<mdz> ompaul: I'll get back to you
<ompaul> mdz, np
<mdke> sfllaw: ping
<Harti> http://www.mozilla.com/firefox/releases/1.5.0.3.html
<mvo> mdz: I hope not, I was traveling on saturday/sunday and send my mail out at monday afternoon
<dAndy_> Kamion: is there any chance that lvm will be in the kickstart for dapper?
<Kamion> dAndy_: no, sorry
<Kamion> we're well past feature freeze, and besides it's hard
<dieman> heh
<dieman> i made a very hackish script for evms mirroing in fai
<dieman> mirroring
<dieman> when it found 2 identical drives
<dieman> even that simple of a case took a while to write
<dAndy_> Kamion: alright, thanks, edgy then? maybe?
<Kamion> dAndy_: no plans currently, but I won't rule it out either
<Kamion> I'm pretty focused on dapper
<dAndy_> Kamion: fair enough, thanks
<dieman> damnit
<dieman> im getting a signal 11 on smbspool
<dieman> through cups
<mdke> dieman: I think that is known, infinity mentioned something like that recently, check the bugtracker
<dieman> ok
<dieman> mdke: thank
<dieman> s
<mdke> np
<dieman> i was just worried it was some new crazy problem
<dieman> otherwise found very little in the way of problems on my test install here
<dieman> at work, for integrating it into our unix enivornment at cs.umn.edu
<dieman> yeah, but #39484
<dieman> bug rather
<Surak> Kamion, can you please support my ubuntu membership at ubuntu-meeting?
<mdke> Surak: he's on the Council.
<Surak> mdke: I would not like to talk at channel.
<Surak> meeting channel, I mean.
<Kamion> I don't really like to count myself for support for membership except in exceptional circumstances; my word carries a bit too much weight there to use it lightly
<Kamion> I can and will certainly make comment
<Kamion> s
<Surak> Kamion: thanks.
<dieman> suck, somehow the pam/nis/passwd stuff i fixed for .76 backported from .79 didn't make it into dapper
<dieman> i wonder if debian's pam adjused some of their patches for the changes and further broke it
<dieman> adjusted, arugh.
<elmo> mjg59: ping?
<zul> heylo
<crimsun> Kamion: the issue covered at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DapperBeta/PartitionTableCorruption is not applicable to beta 2, correct?
<Kamion> crimsun: beta 2 was released to fix that issue
<Kamion> I'll edit the page to make that clear
<crimsun> Kamion: thanks, I just wanted to confirm that, since a user in #ubuntu continues to abuse me for not mentioning that when I clearly asked him to use beta 2.
<Kamion> I see
<Kamion> edited, anyway
<ogra> crimsun, evil guy :p
<bpuccio> hmmm, anyone know why I've been banned from #ubuntu? I haven't said anything all day, I just lurk there, found out I got banned when I just got home now
<zul> crimsun: is that the ntfs guy?
<crimsun> zul: yes
<zul> still? oi
#ubuntu-devel 2007-04-30
<ohmega_> is there a maintainer or something like that for the dapper distribution?
<bhale> there are only Stable Release Updates, done by anyone, and security updates by security team
<ohmega_> hm. i reported a bug a long time ago that causes dapper to fail to boot randomly, but persistentently once it has failed, depending on the number of free inodes you happen to have on your root filesystem.
<ohmega_> i think it's kind of weird that this never got fixed.
<ohmega_> or isn't that considered serious enough? it seems like most people who run into it have to reinstall since they can't figure out what went wrong.
<ohmega_> LP: 37528
<bryce> ohmega_: I haven't seen the bug you've described, but I know in general there's a number of pretty serious bugs in various open source projects, that ubuntu suffers from.  Ubuntu fixes as many as they can with the manpower they have, but they try to keep tightly to the regular release schedule 
<bryce> I think the thinking is, rather than wait a long time to make a perfect release, to make a series of increasingly better releases on a reliable schedule
<ohmega_> bryce: well, there is even a link to a patch in launchpad so this shouldn't be too tough.
<Kmos> bug 37528
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 37528 in klibc "Dapper: persistent boot failure - ext3 filesystem not detected" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/37528
<Mithrandir> looks easy enough to test.
<Mithrandir> uh, fix
<ohmega_> the fix is in edgy since it was fixed in upstream
<jovans> hello it woud be nice when the ubuntu team prepare backport for Faisty thunderbird 2 i think Feisty's support is 18 Month. I don't want thunderbird-1.5-10ubuntu_1_"__$_% i want thunderbird 2
<bryce> ohmega_: ok if it's a kernel thing, you should talk with BenC
<Mithrandir> bryce: it's klibc.
<ohmega_> it's klibc, not the kernel.
<bryce> well the patch in that LP ticket is from kernel.org
<ohmega_> the klibc repository is just on the same server
<bryce> (I don't know who is in charge of klibc)
<bryce> ok I'll shut up now.
<Mithrandir> bryce: the kernel team, as of this cycle.
<ohmega_> hm, isn't Dapper LTS, then there should be an LTS team or at least _someone_?
<Mithrandir> ohmega_: no, there is not a single person dedicated to 6.06 maintenance.
<mjg59> Mithrandir: Uh, I think that's a slightly unfortunate phrasing
<mjg59> You make it sound like nobody carries out any LTS maintenance
<Mithrandir> mjg59: true.  English is hard.
<crimsun> s/not a/no one/
<mjg59> ohmega_: LTS support is handled by the entire maintenance team, depending on who seems appropriate for a specific issue. There are no people who are dedicated to LTS support.
<bhale> 'no single person' is pretty much what you meant
<ohmega_> OK
<Mithrandir> bhale: indeed.  I blame it being after 1 o'clock in the middle of the night.
<ohmega_> So who should I talk to?
<Mithrandir> I'll take a look at it tomorrow.
<ohmega_> Nice :)
<ohmega_> Thanks.
* pygi wonders if anyone is up for sponsoring a package ^_^
<fabbione> morning guys
<gouki> Hi
<pitti> Good morning
<siretart> anyone using ndiswrapper around?
<dholbach> good morning
<Mithrandir> pitti: what do you think about getting bug 64695 fixed in an SRU?  It's a one-line change.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 64695 in kdebase "If GDM is the default display manager KDE logout dialog is missing shutdown and restart options" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/64695
<pitti> Mithrandir: hm, title doesn't sound particularly urgent to me; those options are in gdm/kdm as well, and sometimes people don't see the logout dialog at all; but if it's confusing many people, I'm ok with it
<pitti> Mithrandir: I'd like to see a patch before, though
<Mithrandir> it's a regression though, which is mainly why I think it's reasonable to get it fixed.
<Mithrandir> just a moment, I'll boot my laptop
<pitti> I agree to the regression part
* Hobbsee wonders if one can shutdown from the gdm
<Hobbsee> it's certainly annoying, it seems
<Treenaks> Hobbsee: yes, you can
<Hobbsee> ah, good
<Treenaks> you can also reboot.. don't know about suspend
<pitti> Treenaks: sure, you can do that as well
<Treenaks> pitti: I just close my laptop lid for suspend ;)
<pitti> so do I :)
<Mithrandir> pitti: http://err.no/patches/kdebase_fix_gdm_socket_path.diff is a debdiff
<pitti> Mithrandir: aah, it's *that* change
<pitti> Mithrandir: yes, I'm all for fixing that, since it also looks like a (very  small) DoS
<pitti> and we did it for a bunch of other programs
<pitti> Mithrandir: please mention the SRU bug # in the changelog, though
<Mithrandir> pitti: sure, I just wanted to run it past you first.
<pitti> Mithrandir: and a short explanation of the impact in the changelog would be nice, since it's read by many users
<pitti> Mithrandir: thanks for prep'ing
* Mithrandir nods
<Mithrandir> pitti: should I just upload it or do you want to see the debdiff before?
<Mithrandir> Riddell: ^^ ; you should make sure to fix this in gutsy too.
<pitti> Mithrandir: if you just beautified the changelog, just go ahead and upload it
<Mithrandir> pitti: ok, uploaded.
<mario> siretart, poke?
<siretart> hi pygi 
<pygi> siretart, I have three debdiffs for main, needed in feisty-updates and gutsy probably
<pygi> possible? :)
<pitti> Mithrandir: btw, the patch that you attached to bug 64695 is not at all about kde ;)
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 64695 in kdebase "If GDM is the default display manager KDE logout dialog is missing shutdown and restart options" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/64695
<siretart> depends. your bug nos?
<pygi> siretart, gksu, libgksu, and software-properties
<pygi> ah, numbers!
<pygi> sec :)
<siretart> yes :)
<Mithrandir> pitti: indeed.   That's what I get for not paying attention
<pygi> siretart, I'll have a couple more coming in today :)
<pygi> bug #66518
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 66518 in gksu "[Edgy + Feisty]  Startup Notification broken" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/66518
<pygi> bug #111137
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 111137 in software-properties "Software properties has duplicate gksu" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/111137
<pygi> siretart, those ^_^
<Mithrandir> pitti: thanks, fixed.
<siretart> pygi: I don't think I'm the best qualified person to sponsor gnome SRU uploads, perhaps seb128 or someone can help out?
<pygi> siretart, sure, I'll bug him then :P
<pygi> when he's around :)
<pygi> siretart, what about brasero fixes that I'll have ready today?
<siretart> I just want to be sure that gnome upstream is informed, maybe they'll handle them in a point release. 
<pygi> got it
<siretart> pygi: your bugo to brasero?
<pygi> bug #107499
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 107499 in brasero "Brasero will not burn " [High,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/107499
<pygi> one of them :)
<pygi> that's universe tho
<pygi> for now^_^
<siretart> sure. please attach your debdiff. looks like brasero is looking for a not installed mkisofs, right?
<siretart> oh, and we should fix it in gutsy first!
<pygi> siretart, for gutsy, I'll have new packages ready today/tomorrow
<pygi> (new release)
<pygi> siretart, problem is that current brasero doesn't depend n-c-b, genisoimage, and wodim
<pygi> siretart, sure, thanks. I'll attach my debdiff today
<pygi> siretart, did you upload libburn 0.3.6 and libisofs 0.3.4 in gutsy? I'd need those for brasero
* pygi is sorry for bugging too much :)
<pygi> but oh well, I guess you should expect to see even more bug fixes over time :P
* pygi needs to fix seriously broken GB :(
<siretart> yes, libburn&libisofs is in my todo pipe for today
<pygi> great, thanks
<pygi> ergh, it was libisofs 0.2.4, not 0.3.4 o.O
<siretart> ah, so only libburn is new, ok
<pygi> nod ^_^
<siretart> pygi: and you're going to stay with soname 4? ;)
<pygi> siretart, ;)
<pygi> siretart, as long as I don't break ABI, sure :P
<siretart> great! :) - I'm going to rename the packages then, it will go through NEW therefore
<pygi> siretart, great :)
<pygi> siretart, now that I learned how to actually make it stay the same ... ^_^
<siretart> pygi: what's up with libburn version 0.2-2. do we want to keep or replace it?
<pygi> siretart, nah, 0.2 is three years old, not mine, and isn't working
<siretart> ok, then let's break the world :)
<pygi> siretart, you can remove every all the current libisofs, libburn and stuff we currently have in archives for gutsy
<pygi> haha ^_^
<pygi> ergh, for new brasero I need to pull a couple of patches from svn
<pygi> that scsi lib is a bit unstable in the release :(
<pygi> I'm afraid I gotta run soon, but I'll be sure to bug you later today
<pygi> siretart, and please do tell seb I've got an idea how we can workaround that hal bug in n-c-b for gutsy until hal applies the patch in their BTS
<siretart> pygi: I'd suggest you subscribe him to the relevant bugno
<pygi> siretart, he is subscribed already, and he knows what I'm talking about ^_^
<siretart> he'll see it then, I'm sure :)
<siretart> pygi: libburn currently doesn't build on gutsy because of linux-headers b0rkage. will retry when its fixed. the packages themselves do build fine, I've just pushed my changes to launchpad
<siretart> at least on debian/lenny
<dholbach> pitti: I plan to upload a python-launchpad-bugs (source) to the archive soon - can you move that to main without a MIR? and maybe move bughelper to universe?
<dholbach> (separate source package)
<pitti> dholbach: of course; it's not new code after all
<dholbach> a few changes are in there, but nothing earth shatterin
<dholbach> g
<dholbach> i'll let you know, when i uploaded it
<dholbach> pitti: you rock
<saispo> ho
<saispo> s/ho/hi/
<saispo> gutsy debootstrap will be backported to feisty ?
<cjwatson_> saispo: yes; I tried to do it the other day but something's broken in Launchpad so it failed
<saispo> ok, thanks cjwatson 
<saispo> it's for building gutsy iso :p
<cjwatson> in the meantime it's utterly trivial to build the source from gutsy
<cjwatson> and don't even bother building a gutsy CD image; you're wasting your time
<Mithrandir> or just copy the feisty script to gutsy.
<Mithrandir> cjwatson: failed as in, wasn't accepted or failed to build?
<cjwatson> Mithrandir: wasn't accepted
<Mithrandir> hm, maybe the pockets aren't open yet?
<cjwatson> looks like there's some .changes parsing which breaks on the ~ in the version number
<cjwatson> no, it's much weirder than that
<cjwatson> 09:25:20 DEBUG   Rejected:
<cjwatson> 09:25:20 DEBUG   Mismatch in sourcefulness. (arch) True != (files) False
<cjwatson> 09:25:20 DEBUG   Mismatch in binaryfulness. (arch) False != (files) True
<cjwatson> 09:25:20 DEBUG   Sourceful upload without a diff or native tar
<cjwatson> 09:25:20 DEBUG   Unsupported custom section name 'admin'
<cjwatson> 09:25:20 DEBUG   Unsupported custom section name 'admin'
<cjwatson> 09:25:20 DEBUG   Unable to find the dsc file in the sourceful upload?
<Mithrandir> ugh, ok.
<cjwatson> ah, the custom upload format checks are wrong
<cjwatson> it thinks that priority "-" in a .changes file must mean a custom upload, whereas actually it can be produced by a source package that doesn't have Priority in the first stanza of debian/control
<dholbach> pitti: uploaded :)
<cbx33> kbrooks: so...onto the config problem....hi all
<cbx33> eek
<cbx33> ignore
<cbx33> dholback pointed me here after I asked a question ;)
<cjwatson> https://bugs.launchpad.net/soyuz/+bug/111202 describes the problem preventing debootstrap backports, FWIW
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 111202 in soyuz "custom upload test is broken and catches some source packages" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  
<cbx33> my GSoC student mentioned it would be great if he and the other GSoC students could either blog on planetubuntu or have an ubuntu GSoC blog...so people could read about their progress
<cbx33> is this a possibility?
<cjwatson> cbx33: yes, that's been done before; any Ubuntu member can add to Planet Ubuntu
<cjwatson> 'bzr checkout sftp://bazaar.launchpad.net/~planet-ubuntu/config/main/' and edit
<cjwatson> ... and commit, obviously
<cbx33> but some of these guys are not ubunutu members
<cjwatson> they're not, but presumably the mentors are
<cbx33> yes
<cbx33> I am
<cjwatson> well then
<cjwatson> the mentor can add their student's feed and leave a comment in the file indicating that they're a GSoC student
<cbx33> ahhh
<cbx33> awesome
<cbx33> is there a file for that?
<Nafallo> cbx33: bzr branch :-)
<cbx33> no no
<cbx33> I meanthe comment
<Nafallo> there is a bzrbranch for the config. just add a comment in there :-)
<cjwatson> Nafallo: 'bzr checkout' is more convenient than 'bzr branch' here
<cjwatson> (there's no point having a branch with a separate existence here; you want centralised revision control)
<cjwatson> # Google Summer of Code student, mentored by kamion
<cjwatson> [http://www.evalicious.com/blog/feed/] 
<cjwatson> name = Evan Dandrea
<cjwatson> nick = evand
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> thats cool
<cjwatson> e.g. - though this is no longer true and Evan's a member in his own right, so I'll change that
* Fujitsu protests the vanishing of Kamion.
<Nafallo> cjwatson: ah. right. I meant launchpad has a bzr branch though... :-)
<cjwatson> ah
<Riddell> Mithrandir, seb128: is that gdm fix in kdm a change in gdm upstream so it should go in kdm upstream too?
<seb128> Riddell: what gdm fix in kdm?
<cjwatson> the gdm socket path
<seb128> kdm uses the gdm socket?
<seb128> no, it's a distro change
<Mithrandir> no, but the kde logout dialogue does.
<Riddell> seb128: apparantly so, see Mithrandir's fix here http://librarian.launchpad.net/7474982/kdebase_fix_gdm_socket_path.diff
<seb128> upstream uses /tmp/.gdm_socket
<Riddell> right, ksmserver then
<Riddell> seb128: why the change in ubuntu?
<seb128> because /tmp is not secure
<seb128> /var/run is the right location for the socket
<Riddell> ok, let me know if that changes upstream (or you change it again in ubuntu) :)
<seb128> will do
<seb128> I did try to update package using it
<seb128> I didn't think that KDE was looking for the gdm socket though :/
<Riddell> it's a newish feature, it didn't used to
<seb128> ok
<Riddell> Mithrandir: how come feisty-proposed unapproved packages don't appear at http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/queue/feisty/unapproved/ ?
<cjwatson> it's a different queue
<cjwatson> Riddell: I can make that be published
* ogra pokes gnome-screensaver
<ogra> gs-job.c:110: error: 'EINTR' undeclared (first use in this function)
<ogra> grmbl
<cjwatson> unfortunately it's a bit expensive to publish the lot - connecting to the LP queue is pretty slow
<StevenK> ogra: Known.
<cjwatson> ogra: I posted to ubuntu-devel explaining this
<StevenK> ogra: Although the FTBFS logs are pretty amusing.
<ogra> cjwatson, ah, ok i thougt that was only for the buildds ... 
<cjwatson> if you've upgraded to gutsy locally, you have the same problem
<ogra> but indeed why should my pbuilder do better :)
<Nafallo> ogra: you're working on that one? in that case, should I update DesktopTeam/TODO for you? :-)
<cjwatson> the buildds are building the fixed linux-source-2.6.22 now
<StevenK> cjwatson: Actually, I had a question about that. Did linux-source-2.6.22 1.5 actually fail to build due to the problem it is trying to fix?
<ogra> Nafallo, whats that ? 
<cjwatson> StevenK: yes, but it's been worked around
* ogra looks
<Nafallo> ogra: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/TODO
<Nafallo> :-)
<cjwatson> StevenK: (manual downgrade of linux-libc-dev in the buildd chroot)
<StevenK> cjwatson: Ahhh. Sneaky. :-)
<cjwatson> we knew that was going to happen
<ogra> Nafallo, hmm, was that announced somewhere ? 
<cjwatson> you hose the system compiler, you get to bootstrap :)
<Nafallo> ogra: topic of -desktop atleast :-P
<ogra> heh, well
<Nafallo> ogra: that's where I found it :-)
<StevenK> cjwatson: Yup. :-)
<cjwatson> Riddell: http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/queue/feisty-proposed/unapproved/ is there now
<Nafallo> cjwatson: hi! care to sponsor new irssi? you were the last one on it :-)
<Nafallo> http://home.nafallo.info/debdiffs/
<Riddell> cjwatson: ooh, thanks
<cjwatson> Nafallo: not especially :)
<StevenK> Nafallo, cjwatson: I can do it, if you like.
<Nafallo> StevenK: please :-)
<ogra> seb128, any particular reason that gnome-power-manager is not on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/TODO ?
<cjwatson> I have a load of performance reviews to do that I've been procrastinating - probably don't need more distractions ;)
<seb128> ogra: the list is a copy of packages to which ones desktop-bugs is subscribed
<ogra> ah, k
<seb128> ogra: gnome-power-manager gets enough bug to justify having its own team ;)
<seb128> especially than most bugs there are linux, acpi and other things not really desktopish 
<ogra> lol, yes
<Nafallo> seb128: then we might want to remove ekiga? isn't that the voip-team now? :-)
<seb128> Nafallo: yeah, that's the goal, there is a discussion running on the mailing list
<Riddell> ogra: gnome-screensaver looks compiled according to launchpad
<Nafallo> seb128: right. no answers on your mail yet :-)
<ogra> Riddell, ??
<seb128> Nafallo: which one?
<ogra> Riddell, who built a new package ? 
<Riddell> ogra: I presume there's a new version somewhere though that I'm not seeing?
<Riddell> ogra: nobody, it's just the version from feisty
<ogra> should be 2.19.x
<seb128> Nafallo: Ekiga mail sent on saturday
<seb128> Nafallo: there is a voip team npw
<seb128> now
<Nafallo> seb128: "Call for Desktop Team contributors" :-)
<Nafallo> seb128: seems to mention those teams in it :-)
<seb128> Nafallo: there is a new Ekiga thread on desktop-list
<vciaglia> hello *
<seb128> anyway, lunch time
<Nafallo> :-)
<ogra> Riddell, thats an old version, i just built the package from the new upstream source on the weekend
<Riddell> ogra: ok
<StevenK> Nafallo: This has to wait for the new linux-libc-dev. If I uploaded it, it would get requeued, and I'd rather see it sucessfully build here first.
<Nafallo> StevenK: oh. I built it before the b0rkage then... :-)
<Nafallo> StevenK: or rather, aurora isn't updated ;-)
<Nafallo> which is a GoodThing(tm) :-)
<Amaranth> that reminds me
<StevenK> Although the failure of "network.c:296: error: 'SO_REUSEADDR' undeclared (first use in this function)
<StevenK> " does make me giggle.
<Amaranth> since gnome-power-manager development is stalled will we have 2.18 or try to make the 2.19.x stuff work?
<StevenK> Nafallo: Maybe imbrandon's mirror isn't updating?
<StevenK> Nafallo: You mean you don't have a fast machine to build on sitting ~40cm to your right? :-P
<Nafallo> StevenK: yes I do, but I'm to lazy to set up a pbuilder :-)
<Nafallo> StevenK: I meant pbuilder-gutsy update isn't run for a while :-)
<StevenK> Nafallo: I can throw you a base tarball and a set of scripts if you like. :-)
<Nafallo> StevenK: hehe. I actually have everything needed to set it up, I'm just to lazy :-)
<Nafallo> StevenK: and it would be i386 instead of amd64 and kind of pointless to do atm ;-)
<Nafallo> StevenK: what I really need to do is to work some magic on the box :-)
<StevenK> Nafallo: I can do both amd64 and i386.
<Nafallo> StevenK: but you have amd64 as a base, right?
<Nafallo> StevenK: my plan is to reinstall to amd64 and start playing with virtual instances :-)
<StevenK> Nafallo: The base install on this machine is 64-bit, yes. I have a 32 bit chroot for mplayer.
<lifeless> mmm, my new 64 bit machine is coming up well
<lifeless> PITA migrating settings though
* StevenK kicks schroot for not umounting directories.
<Nafallo> StevenK: fix it :-)
<StevenK> I've been planning on.
<mario> hi folks
<pygi> seb128, around?
<Nafallo> morning sabdfl 
<pygi> o Nafallo is around again :P
<Nafallo> pygi: always here, never says anything :-)
<Nafallo> ;-)
<pygi> Nafallo, ^_^
<Nafallo> morning Keybuk :-)
<Keybuk> morniing
<pygi> ha, Keybuk !
<sabdfl> moin moin Nafallo
<Nafallo> sabdfl: that a wiki ;-)
<sabdfl> have a wiki wiki day!
<Nafallo> hehe :-)
* pygi goes back to what he was doing
<Keybuk> sabdfl: you're up early
<seb128> pygi: sort of, why?
<sabdfl> Keybuk: my laptop clock says it's 50 to 1 in the afternoon!
<sabdfl> erk
<sabdfl> 12:49 PM, that is
<pygi> seb128, I need three uploads to main (for now, will have more)
<Keybuk> "50 to 1", that sounds like a gameshow
<Mithrandir> sabdfl: your laptop believes you are in the UK, then. :-P
<sabdfl> Mithrandir: so does a large part of my lizard brain
<sabdfl> Keybuk: it is, and the bonus prize round is this afternoon ;-)
<sabdfl> holy crap, whatever spellchecker Gaim uses doesn't know "prize"
<sabdfl> that's an award-winning omission
<pygi> sabdfl, submit a bug :P
* StevenK idly wonders if BenC actally plays poker using IRC.
<StevenK> If you fold, you /quit, but then again it's very easy to keep a poker face.
<pygi> seb128, just poke me when you are here completely. I have some things to discuss with you as wel
<pygi> well*
<sabdfl> wow, Ubuntu Weekly News is amazing this week
<seb128> pygi: I'm around now, what do you want to discuss?
<pygi> seb128, I have fixes for software-properties, libgksu, and gksu that I want in feisty. That's one.
<seb128> please ping mvo about them
* StevenK makes a somewhat unexpected (indirectly) contribution to UWN.
<pygi> seb128, second, I've got an idea how can we temporarily workaround hal bug in n-c-b for gutsy until hal upstream fixes it
<pygi> seb128, I will ^_^
<seb128> or ping me on wednesday
<pygi> nah, I'll bug mvo for that :)
<seb128> I'm on holiday today and I don't want to spend the afternoon working ;)
<pygi> ah! Ok, sorry then ^^
<seb128> ah, cool
<seb128> that's ok, I would not be on IRC otherwise ;)
<pygi> the hal thingy can wait then ^_^
<seb128> can't we get the hal patch used in gutsy?
<pygi> seb128, we could, yes :)
<seb128> something to discuss with pitti then
<pygi> ok, ok :)
<pygi> but I guess not today :)
<pygi> I have a lot of patches targeting main ready, and a few more in preparation
<seb128> just open bugs and attach them ;)
<pygi> will see what I can do with gnomebaker in this cycle as well, since it's unmaintained
<pygi> but I do have access to the upstream repository, so ...
<mario> <pygi> will see what I can do with gnomebaker in this cycle as well, since it's unmaintained
<mario> <pygi> but I do have access to the upstream repository, so ...
<seb128> pygi: just take over it ;)
<pygi> seb128, no point since brasero is actively developed and no time.
<seb128> k, makes sense then
<pygi> + the burning arena is bad since everybody wants everything, and nobody wants to contribute :P
<saispo> hi all :)
<pygi> but that's how everything is :)
<seb128> lu saispo
<pygi> seb128, we just need to make sure to iron some existing bugs. I hope the debian package can help there. texeira has a lot of patches in his package, perhaps I can roll them in and make a point release of GB.
<pygi> need to mail him, he's trying to join ubuntu burning team
<seb128> cool
<pygi> seb128, o yes, I had another question :)
<pygi> can we blacklist packages that we DON'T want imported from debian?
<seb128> yes
<pygi> great, who do I bug about that?
<seb128> Mithrandir or cjwatson probably
<pygi> ok, thanks
<Mithrandir> pygi: sure, which one?
<pygi> Mithrandir, brasero for now
<pygi> Mithrandir, their packaging is very ugly, don't want them to ruin the work we did here
<Mithrandir> blacklisted
<pygi> thanks
<pygi> I hope new brasero will fix a lot of bugs we have, it should at least
<pygi> well, enough of bugging for now
<pygi> thanks seb128 and Mithrandir 
<seb128> no problem ;)
<cjwatson> dholbach: at-spi in gutsy as Maintainer: Maintainer: Ubuntu Accessibility Developers <ubuntu-accessibility-devel@lists.ubuntu.com>
<cjwatson> s/as/has/
<doko> pitti: please promote the gfortran and gfortran-4.1 binaries to main
<dholbach> cjwatson: thanks, will fix that
<pitti> doko: ugh, fortran in main?
<doko> pitti: gutsy goal, and you already did move gfortran-4.2 to main ;-p
<dholbach> fixed
<cjwatson> pitti: g77 has always been in main
<ogra> we already have gutsy goals ? 
<cjwatson> pitti: this is just replacing that ...
<cjwatson> ogra: for the toolchain, yes
<ogra> ah, right
<pitti> dholbach: alright, thanks; promoted
<dholbach> pitti: thanks A LOT
<Amaranth> doesn't gfortran break ABI?
<dholbach> pitti: the API is still the same - I'll notifiy you if there are changes
<pitti> dholbach: erk, sorry, that was supposed to go to doko
<pitti> dholbach: I'll handle your's in a bit
<dholbach> ah ok
<dholbach> pitti: take your time
* pitti is stuck in a huge merge with his head full of state, sorry
* dholbach hugs pitti
<zyga> hello, has anyone noticed any regressions with regards to python2.5 and gettext under feisty with default language packs?
<zyga> it seems tht lp patch breaks translation lookup as lp takes precedense over anything else
<zyga> lp == langpack patch
<Fujitsu> lp == launchpad, so best not to use that abbreviation in that context.
<pygi> pitti, be prepared for hal bugging :P
<zyga> ok
<pitti> pygi: no problem; poke me about it, I'm slow ATM with keeping up to date in Malone 
<pygi> pitti, no worries, I have some patches that we'll need for now in gutsy
<zyga> pitti: do you know who patched python2.5 to grok language packs?
<pitti> zyga: not off-hand, can you please check the changelog?
<zyga> oh, good idea!
<zyga> doko did
<zyga> and mvo wrote it initially
<zyga> :-)
* zyga feels at home
<zyga> hmm, it's buggy all right, I can reproduce it now :)
<pitti> dholbach: p-lp-bugs NEWed into main; it shouldn't need binary/NEW
<Hobbsee> hiya pitti 
<siretart> pygi: do you happen to have some brasero 0.5.0 package for my to try?
<Mithrandir> hiya Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> hey Mithrandir!
* Hobbsee hugs Mithrandir and pitti 
<Solarion> so, what do I need to do to figure out why gnome-panel is eating my RAM for breakfast?
<Solarion> I'm capable of fixing and providing patch, but I want to find where that sucker is lurking, and I am not certain how to get a stack trace from it
<Hobbsee> no idea, sorry.  seb128/dholbach should know, but arent here
<Hobbsee> or some others
<Solarion> I also can't get a crash report out of OOo 2.2; is there something I need to enable to get it?  It just pops a file recovery dialog
<Solarion> if anyone knows, please msg me and I'll read it when I get back to the kb.
<Solarion> like I said, I'll fix it if I can get some help to do so.
<Solarion> and as a bonus, I'll be that much more able to help fix bugs in the future, so it's a win-win.
<Solarion> Hobbsee: thanks for your response at least.  It's better than I've gotten for a while.  :(
* Solarion heads out
* Hobbsee is wondering where everyone is, though
<cjwatson> doko: can you point Solarion in the right direction?
<doko> Solarion: when do you see this crash?
<sladen> wow, a Simira.
<Hobbsee> yay, Simira!
<dholbach> Solarion: I'd install the relevant -dbgsym packages (http://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingProgramCrash) and use valgrind to find out what happens (http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Valgrind)
<sbalneav> elmo: Quick question for you, does the Canonical asterisk server support video connections via ekiga?
<dholbach> Solarion: also, can you try if it happens with a new user?
<Hobbsee> heya dholbach 
<dholbach> hey Hobbsee
* Hobbsee wonders why her tab complete didnt find you earlier
<smithj> so the file(s) /usr/share/doc/splat/copyright - do you have some magic policy to put those there, or is it a manual process for every package?
<Hobbsee> smithj: it's sourcedir/debian/copyright, for each sourcepackage, which is done manually for every source package.
<Hobbsee> (it's installed automatically, yes)
<smithj> so how do you keep it up to date if the license changes? just update manually?
<Mithrandir> yes
<smithj> i was kind of hoping there was some magic method already in existance to do it without manual munging :)
<Hobbsee> nope
<smithj> ok, thanks all
<elmo> sbalneav: err, I don't know to be honest, AFAIK, no one's ever tried
<pygi> siretart, brasero 0.5.0? hm?
<pygi> why?
<pygi> (sorry, was away
<pygi> )
<ogra> cjwatson, do you have the ubuntu-server-thin-client spec on LP somewhere ? i'd like to subscribe to it 
<ogra> (and i know a bunch of others that are intrested)
<cjwatson> ogra: we haven't gone through and registered everything from the core schedule on LP yet
<ogra> ok
<cjwatson> though since you're listed as an attendee on that on the core schedule, we'll probably subscribe you in the process
<pygi> siretart, I'll look around, perhaps I've got them somewhere
<pygi> siretart, once you're back ,poke
<siretart> pygi: oh, I just looked at the brasero page and noticed that 0.5.0 seems to be the current upstream version
<siretart> pygi: I tought I could give braser a try with the new libburn
<pygi> siretart, which page?
<siretart> pygi: http://perso.orange.fr/bonfire/
<pygi> I think you were looking at wrong page siretart ^_^
<pygi> siretart, I'll have new packages ready with libburn & libisofs in two days
<siretart> first google hit. what would have been the correct one?
<pygi> siretart, he correct one?
<pygi> ergh
<pygi> sec
<pygi> siretart, http://www.gnome.org/projects/brasero/
<pygi> please allow me to package those, I think I'll need to include a couple of patches
<pygi> + it's my job to do those anyway :P
<pygi> well, not job, but heh
<pygi> siretart, 0.5.90 supports newest libburn and libisofs
<Enola_Gay> hi all
<Enola_Gay> Is there any replacement for the xserver-xorg-core-dbg in Feisty?
<Enola_Gay> Xserver seems to have no dbg packages anymore at least I find no one.
<tkamppeter> pitti, ping
<Enola_Gay> tkamppeter: Do you know if there is a replacement for xserver-xorg-core-dbg in Feisty? I ask because you seem to be the one of the modesetting bug report.
<Enola_Gay> I would like to create a crash dump of X but the Debian Wiki entry doesn't work for Ubuntu.
<siretart> pygi: superb!
<siretart> pygi: do you manage these packages in bzr? if so, please push them to your team's branches
<siretart> s/your/our/
<pygi> siretart, I don't, but I could ^_^
<pygi> I guess if that'll help us test bzr builddeb stuff, I could play around a bit with it
<Enola_Gay> cu all
<mrmonday> Hi there, Are there any developers who would be interested in doing an article on how ubuntu is developed for fullcirclemagazine?
<siretart> pygi: ok, just ping me again if you have some working packages
<pygi> siretart, ofcourse :)
<mrmonday> no takers?
<codingmaster> Hello Ubuntu Developers!
<codingmaster> I am participating this year in the Summer of Code for Ubuntu.
<codingmaster> I am working on the Ubuntu Firewall Configuration.
<codingmaster> I hope you can help me by adding suggestions for a good project name, using this wiki:
<codingmaster> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuFirewallConfiguration/Name
<codingmaster> Thanks in advance to all of you!!!
<pygi> codingmaster, Indpap ^_^
<pygi> codingmaster, and it's you again :)
<codingmaster> hey :)
<codingmaster> would be great to see some suggestions from you all in the wiki :)
<tkamppeter> Enola_Gay: I don't know, I have reported the i810-modesetting bug. The problem was that the standard i810 driver needs a high effort of manual configuration to work with not so common resolutions, and the proposed solution was to use i810-modesetting (which works for me), but there was nothing in my problem which has to do with xserver-xorg-core-dbg. Later on people talked about crashes of i810-modesetting, but I have nothing to do wit
<tkamppeter> h that.
<Solarion> *sigh*  how does Network-Manager do authentication?
<mjg59> With wpa_supplicant
<pygi> Solarion, wpa_supplicant
<Solarion> It seems to totally forget that the AP requires Dynamic WEP inbetween bouts
<pygi> codingmaster, I just told you an idea :P
<Solarion> which is a problem if there's low signal
<Solarion> heya mjg
<codingmaster> @pygi: I know
<Solarion> who is in charge of determining what method to use then?
<Solarion> does N-M tell wpa_supplicant to auth using method foo, credentials bar, or does wpa_supplicant remember these things and is failing to remember correctly?
<mjg59> N-M tells it things
<Solarion> between the two of 'em, someone is forgetting
<mjg59> To the best of my knowledge, anyway. The interaction is complicated.
<Solarion> (from googling, it sounds like the APs are misconfigured.  It's shocking, I know, but it's the way it is)
<Solarion> where should I go to push this further?
<Solarion> 'cause this annoys the heck outta me
<pygi> submit a bug, but n-m is a bit ...
<pygi> :-/
<Solarion> there's already a bug, which needs some love
<pygi> codingmaster, how's the coding going?
<pygi> Solarion, sadly I don't wanna play with n-m bugs anymore ... I did it for dapper too much
<pygi> hi jdong 
<Solarion> pygi: who else is doing it?
<pygi> Solarion, dunno (I do actually, just not sure it's the right time for bugging right now ^_^)
<Solarion> pygi: "right time for bugging" means what?
<codingmaster> @pygi: hacking on python :) with gtk :)
<pygi> Solarion, means vacation :p
<Solarion> ah.  Well, queue it up then or something.  If I find a solution, I'll post a patch
<Solarion> pygi: where would I look in the source for the decision-making portion of things?
<pygi> Solarion, out of hand, no idea, sorry 
<pygi> it's a bit more complicated then that I'm afraid
<Solarion> hervorragend
<Solarion> is there a n-m channel?
<pygi> Solarion, nop
<Solarion> well, that sucks
<pygi> there is mailing list for n-m tho
<Solarion> I've got enough mailing lists in my life.  :(
<Solarion> If I have to enter all of my craptastic auth information one more time, I'm gonna scream.
<Solarion> I think it's now 10 or 15 times in half an hour
<Solarion> is odd, because sometimes it seems to re-auth; sometimes it doens't.
<pygi> well, I use personally created shell script
<Solarion> 11/16
<pygi> that seems to do the trick :P
<Solarion> 12/17.  shell script that does what?
<Solarion> 13/18.  shell script that does what?
<sn0> mrmonday im not a developer but just incase you haven't got a reponse, this might not be the best place to ask , maybe post on the mailing list(s) to get it seen
<mrmonday> sn0, I have had a response thanks
<sn0> mrmonday no prob, would be nice to see an article :)
<Solarion> so, what are the chances of getting 2.6.21 (dynticks) in feisty?
<Solarion> or do I have to DIM (Do It Myself)
<mrmonday> sn0, keep your eye on the fullcirclemagazine site, 
<sn0> already doo thx mrmonday :)
<Solarion> I think it's 20/25.  :(
<bddebian> Heya
<keescook> pirast: 110066> thanks, I've approved the nominations (still working through a big back-log of stuff...)
<jdong_> !omgjdong
<pygi> :P
<ubotu> jdong: You're going to hell.
<jdong_> grr wrong channel
* jdong_ mumbles a bit about irssi....
<mquy> hello
<mquy> can anyone tell me how to become an Ubuntu developer?
<infinity> -> #ubuntu-motu
<mquy> thanks
<geser> infinity: any progress on the xmms2 build failure (bug #87077)?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 87077 in launchpad-buildd "The build of xmms2 fails because of HASH(0x82db558)="" in the environment" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/87077
<infinity> geser: Haven't looked at it for a while, was far too concerned with releasing feisty and opening/bootstrapping gutsy, etc.
<thomS> Are the yellow popup bubbles (e.g for NetworkManager applet) part of the GTK toolkit or something Ubuntu have added themselves?
<geser> afaik it's done by libnotify1
<mthaddon> Launchpad is going down in 15 mins for a code update. Estimated downtime is 10 mins or less.
<pirast> keescook, great, thanks
<jdong> hmm... why does ssh <command> cause remote command to hang when local ssh is killed?
<jdong> I would expect / desire the remote command to be killed when connection is severed
<shawarma> jdong: It'll probably die once it tries to write something to the client (SIGPIPE magic).
<Kmos> bug 105859
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 105859 in app-install-data-commercial "Opera 9.2 is out with many bug fixes" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/105859
<jdong> shawarma: good idea!
<shawarma> jdong: You could also pass '-t' to ssh. That makes it allocate a controlling terminal on the server in effect sending the ctrl-c (if that's how you kill it) down the line make it send SIGINT to the remote app rather than your local ssh client.
<jdong> shawarma: yet another good idea :D
<shawarma> jdong: Heh. It looks like it worked. :-)
<jdong> lol don't get excited too fast :D
<jdong> shawarma: the ssh -t flaw.. can't pipe from it...
<jdong> but I think I have an idea why SIGPIPE isn't caught
<jdong> AHAHAHA
<jdong> yep... catching IOError too broadly is not a good idea
<robertj_> are packages in commercial tracked in launchpad as well?
<Kmos> robertj_: you need to set it to package: app-install-data-commercial
<mario> anyone around willing to be bugged for a few secs?
<robertj_> are vmware-server's deps messed up? it claims to depend on libssl .9.7 but .9.8 is what is in feisty
<robertj_> also the kernel modules package doesn't seem to provide appropriately
<mario> jdong, poke? :)
<jdong> mario: sup?
<mario> jdong, mind checking for me in brasero deps if it doesn't have wodim && genisofs or nautilus-cd-burner dependency?
* jdong reads that question 3 times....
<jdong> which brasero?
<mario> jdong, the one in feisty
<jdong> libnautilus-burn4,
<jdong> that's the only burning related dep I see
<mario> jdong, oki, that means it's wrong :P
<jdong> lol
<mario> thanks, I thought I was hallucinating
<agraveley> hi. so i'm getting the feeling something on my machine has a May1 backdoor programmed in ;-)
<mario> agraveley, why? :)
<mario> jdong, ^_^
<agraveley> i'm getting "BUG: soft lockup detected on cpu#0!" on booting both latest 2.6.11 and older 2.6.10
<mjg59> 2.6.11? Your life must suck.
<mario> latest 2.6.11 o.O
<mario> ergh, mjg59 beat me :P
<agraveley> the only thing that's worked is disabling the wireless in the bios
<mario> jdong, pm
<mjg59> agraveley: ipw3945? Known bug, fixed in later versions of the driver.
<agraveley> err, sorry!  2.6.17-11.  both this kernel and the older 2.6.17-10 worked fine until this morning
<mario> hehe :)
<mario> any updates this morning?
<agraveley> nope
<mjg59> agraveley: It's the temperature calibration routine in the driver
<agraveley> wouldn't explain the older kernel not working too
<mjg59> So, yeah, it's plausible that weather changes will affect it
<mjg59> Computers are great
<agraveley> omfg, you're kidding! :-)
<Kmos> agraveley: update to feisty =)
<Kmos> *upgrade
<agraveley> is there an easy way to get newer kernels without upgrading just yet?  we're very close to a software freeze.
<mjg59> agraveley: My recollection is that the hardware may block for some time before calibrating fully. Older versions of the driver would spin while this was happening, and the kernel detects this as a hang
<mjg59> If you leave your machine for long enough, it /might/ carry on booting anyway, though I'm not sure of that
<agraveley> mjg59: it's san francisco!  every day is the same! so that doesn't seem likely ;)
<mjg59> agraveley: Dude, it rained on me there last week. Don't tell me it's /always/ the same.
<agraveley> oh interesting.  maybe i've always just happened to leave it alone long enough?
<mjg59> As I said, environmental factors may affect it
* agraveley tries updating to feisty's kernel without changing anything else
<mjg59> You'll probably need the initramfs-tools as well, but if those dependencies are satisfied you ought to be good
<ogra> probably udev too
<ogra> no ?
<agraveley> sweet! feisty has tomboy 0.6.3.
<bhale> hi, agraveley 
<agraveley> howdy :)
* agraveley reboots
<agraveley> hey.  okay, the kernel update fixed the boot halt problems, but wireless no longer works.  i'm seeing "Kill switch must be turned off for wireless networking to work.", but wireless is certainly turned ON in the bios (otherwise i didn't see the problem at all)
<agraveley> this is on an IBM x60
<agraveley> anyone have advice?
<mjg59> agraveley: And the kill switch on the front of the laptop is switched on?
<mjg59> agraveley: Oh!
<agraveley> WHOA
<mjg59> agraveley: Now that you mention that - the bug only manifests itself when the kill switch is on, as far as I remember
<mjg59> agraveley: So what changed was probably that you flicked that switch accidently...
<agraveley> wait wait wait
<agraveley> WHO PUT A SWITCH THERE?!
* agraveley had no idea that thing was there
<mjg59> Alex loses
<agraveley> hah.  this is comical.  rebooting again.
<pochu> hey all! any archive admin can give back wxwidgets2.8? it failed to build because of that kernel issue.
<pochu> https://beta.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/wxwidgets2.8/2.8.3.0-0ubuntu1
<agraveley> moral of the story: know where all the poorly placed switches are on your laptop, bozo.
<agraveley> thanks guys :-)
<pygi> siretart, around?
#ubuntu-devel 2007-05-01
<jdong> doko: ping; I don't feel comfortable handling bug 111341 via Backports; could you offer me some words of wisdom on the safety of such an action, or a better way of resolving webmaven's issue?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 111341 in edgy-backports "Please backport Python2.4" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/111341
<mangojambo> hi ...
<mangojambo> Is the default source modules folder /usr/src/linux-headers-2.6.20-15-generic/drivers ?
<mangojambo> feisty
<Solarion> any ideas when SELinux will be enabled in Ubuntu?
<justinellison> Solarion:  have you looked at the Blueprint spec on Launchpad?
<justinellison> Solarion:  there is also a Blueprint for enabling SELinux by default: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/selinux-by-default
<Solarion> interesting
<Solarion> so what do I do here?  :)
<Solarion> so ubuntu is going to be shipping on Dells?
<siti> it's just a rumour I think :p
<siti> but quite likely
<Solarion> looks like Fabin spilled the beans
<Solarion> http://www.fabianrodriguez.com/blog/archives/2007/04/30/its-d-day/
<Solarion> I don't see a press release on ubuntu.com
<siti> ok
<Solarion> is Fabin in trouble?
<Solarion> (hello, Kiwi!  :)
<mjg59> He posted it at 00:00 GMT on the 1st of May
<robertj> Solarion: Fabin is now dead
<siti> lol
<Solarion> robertj: the Microsoft hit squads are *that* fast?!
<mjg59> So, if it's happening, I'd expect something to appear more officially slightly later on today
<Solarion> mjg59: you're an ubuntu employee, correct?
<Solarion> well, Canonical
<siti> Solarion: hello kiwi?
<mjg59> Solarion: No
<Solarion> siti: are you not from NZ?
<siti> yes, are you?
<Solarion> mjg59: guess I was confused then.  My bad.
<mjg59> Solarion: I'm the token non-Canonical person on the tech board :)
<Solarion> siti: newp.  Sadly, not all of us are as fortunate as you.  ;)
<siti> I guess if a canonical worker says it's happening, then it will happen...
<Solarion> mjg59: for whom do you work?
<siti> Solarion: why is it fortunate to be a kiwi :p?
<mjg59> Solarion: I'm a student
<Solarion> siti: because?
<Solarion> I dunno if I'd buy a Dell with Ubuntu.  System76 seems like they truly support us.
<dAndy> Is there a blueprint for the proposed unattended install stuff for gutsy? I remember seeing something somewhere but now I can't find it
<Solarion> and hence should be supported
<Solarion> wasabi?
<Solarion> wasabi: are you the same wasabi?
<MindUs> Free phone calls all around the world - http://callfree.point-serv.com/en/
<MindUs> Free phone calls all around the world - http://callfree.point-serv.com/en/
<siti> lol
<robertj> btw, if one axis of my touchpad randomly stops working until I alt+tab, what package does that get filed against?
<jdong> robertj: most likely xorg-driver-input-synaptics
<ajmitch> Solarion: there are a few issues to be worked out to have selinux working *properly* 
<agraveley> so what's the deal with the Ubuntu shutdown dialog? is it upstreamed into GNOME/gdm yet?
<mjg59> No
<mjg59> To a large extent, it exists because we don't have sufficiently reliable power management yet
<agraveley> ya, tell me about it.  i want to avoid putting separate hibernate/suspend buttons in gimmie, but i don't think there's much choice.  so i might as well use the snazzy ubuntu dialog.
<agraveley> but is that code is still a monolithic patch to gnome-panel?
<mjg59> No clue, I'm afraid. I'm not aware of it having been rewritten, but it's not really in the area I concentrate on
<agraveley> is there a canonical place where that patch lives?
<mjg59> Erm. Excellent question.
<mjg59> It was produced by a SoC student, IIRC
<mjg59> I'm not sure if it has an independent existence...
<agraveley> i wish power management was good enough to do things correctly... suspend to ram, then unsuspend after a certain amount of time or resource usage and resuspend to disk
<agraveley> or something :)
<mjg59> Yeah, that would be ideal
<johanbr> Isn't that possible with acpi alarms?
<jdong> Dear Santa. I would like a black Macbook with 4GB RAM and a 120GB hard drive.
<mjg59> johanbr: Oh, yeah, that's entirely feasible
<mjg59> But making it the default would make people sad - suspend and resume still isn't reliable enough
<fabbione> morning
<ion_> Hi
<sharms> thats interesting, the confirmation of the dell on the planet post disappeared
<jdong> sharms: dum dum DUM
<jdong> http://www.fabianrodriguez.com/blog/archives/2007/04/30/its-d-day/
<sharms> actually
<sharms> he just disappeared from the planet
<sharms> and so did the post above him
<Treenaks> I only see 'congratulations' and 'there are rumours..' posts
<sharms> there were 2 more posts above xubuntu
<Keybuk> yeah, looks like planet lost the top few posts; it does that sometimes, I'll let elmo know when he wakes up :-/  probably needs kicking
<sharms> no no I would rather keep going on my conspiracy theory
<ajmitch> Keybuk: it's not the only thing missing today, bug mail is floating around somewhere
<sharms> if you are missing bug mail, I got a couple of specs ajmitch
<Keybuk> heh, bug mail is always erratic for me :-/
<sharms> keep ya occupied :)
<ajmitch> sharms: nah, I filed a couple of sync requests today, one got through
<doko> jdong: in this case it seems to better to fix zope's configure support
<Treenaks> sharms: another post disappeared from planet
<jdong> doko: agreed; that was the eventual conclusion that was drawn; thanks!
<Wriest> hello everyone
<Fujitsu> Hi Wriest.
<Wriest> Hi Fujitsu
<Wriest> you be here alot
<mdke> 08:12:17 < mdke> does anyone know what is wrong with these two lines?
<mdke> 08:12:18 < mdke>  Ised -i ../build/ubuntu/$y/C/*.html -e "s#.\./\.\./\.\./common/C/contributors\.xml#../../common/C/contributors.html#g"
<mdke> 08:12:19 < mdke>  Ised -i ../build/ubuntu/$y/C/*.html -e "s#/usr/share/ubuntu-docs/common/C/ccbysa\.xml#../../common/C/ccbysa.html#g"
<mdke> 08:12:41 < mdke> they give me:
<mdke> 08:12:41 < mdke> sed: -e expression #1, char 51: unterminated `s' command
<mdke> oh for god's sake
<mdke> these things are always stupid typos
<mdke> (found it)
* mdke wonders if real programmers get this frustrated
<Lathiat> yep
<Lathiat> if you count me as a real programmer anyway ;)
<mdke> Lathiat: :)
<jsgotangco> hey mdke long time no chat
<Burgundavia> hey jsgotangco
<jsgotangco> how's it going Burgundavia
<Burgundavia> work is killing me
<Burgundavia> but I am looking forward to spain
<jsgotangco> wow so you're going to spain huh nice
<jsgotangco> work is killing me too
<mdke> hiya both
<mdke> cjwatson_: the intended layout for https://help.ubuntu.com/7.04 is now up on that page. Can you take a look and think about how the installation-guide would fit in? I've been thinking about it and don't really know. It's kinda awkward because of the absence of a guide for the main Ubuntu cd...
<tonyyarusso> Who manages Planet Ubuntu these days?
<Burgundavia> you do
<tonyyarusso> err, I'd have hoped I would be informed :P
<mdke> tonyyarusso: wiki:PlanetUbuntu
<tonyyarusso> mdke: looking at that now
<jsgotangco> if you're an ubuntu member, you can fix it yourself (or add yourself)
<tonyyarusso> was wondering if there was some sort of administrative oversight, etc. (Yes, I too am wondering why Fabian and Martin are no longer included atm)
<Burgundavia> which martin?
<Burgundavia> tonyyarusso: fabian's whole site is down
<Burgundavia> http://www.fabianrodriguez.com/
<tonyyarusso> Burgundavia: albisetti
<tonyyarusso> (beuno)
<mdke> tonyyarusso: yes, it's on Canonical servers so of course there is administrative oversight
<Burgundavia> right
<mdke> I'm sure they will be back on planet soon, don't worry
<tonyyarusso> mmkay
<Burgundavia> however, there really should be an editorial board
<Burgundavia> you can see if the config has been edited
<Treenaks> Burgundavia: and by whom..
* tonyyarusso doesn't understand bzr enough to do so
<Burgundavia> anybody got a current config pulled down?
* Hobbsee waves
<fabbione> hey Hobbsee 
<vciaglia> good morning
<Hobbsee> hi fabbione!
<Treenaks> Burgundavia: I just cloned a new copy..
* beuno sees he's no longer on the planet
<jsgotangco> it seems i got removed as well
<jsgotangco> lol
<jsgotangco> STOP BLOGGING ABOUT DELL
<jsgotangco> lol
<Burgundavia> right
<Burgundavia> hmm
<beuno> oh?  but I didn't brean any embargo..?
<Burgundavia> that does mildly concern me
<elkbuntu> heh.. they removed anyone who posted about dell?
<tonyyarusso> jsgotangco: You did it too?
* tonyyarusso just did - waits to see if he gets censored as well
<jsgotangco> yeah lol
<beuno> I mean, I added "there is a rumor"
<jsgotangco> i just said "Congratulations"
<jsgotangco> heh
<beuno> and Fabia Rodriguez confirmed it
<Burgundavia> nuking an employee is ok, nuking community members is a bit much
<elkbuntu> tonyyarusso, quickly remove it and you'll be fine
<tonyyarusso> elkbuntu: why are we being censored?
<elkbuntu> tonyyarusso, probably because it's not official yet
<jsgotangco> come on, Dell's support site has it plastered all over
<tonyyarusso> jsgotangco: link me to your post?
<beuno> and we didn't get a warning, instruacions
<beuno> nothing
<Hobbsee> are you all permanently removed from planet, or just tha tpost?
<jsgotangco> Hobbsee: removed
<Hobbsee> jsgotangco: that doesnt answer the quesiton
<beuno> Hobbsee: permanently removed
<Treenaks> I just pulled a fresh planet config, but no changes since yesterday (and that was a comment change)
<Hobbsee> all removed, or just that post removed?
<Hobbsee> ahh, ouch
<Burgundavia> means the main server config was changed without editing the bzr branch
<elkbuntu> jsgotangco, where? i dont see it?
<tonyyarusso> Burgundavia: does that tell us anything?
<mdke> it tells you more than you would have known if the posts hadn't been removed
<Burgundavia> that means that it was canonical that did it
<tonyyarusso> mdke: true
<Burgundavia> only they have access to the data centre
<Hobbsee> mdke: uh, exactly
<vciaglia> "Dell to choose Ubuntu". Nice! :)
<jsgotangco> elkbuntu: http://urltea.com/gt8
<beuno> http://beuno.com.ar/archives/17
<jsgotangco> it says install though heh
<jsgotangco> ah well
<jsgotangco> welcome to capitalism
<Burgundavia> who got pulled?
<elkbuntu> jsgotangco, yes, nothing about preinstallation
<beuno> the source for my post is a public article in desktoplinux.com
<tonyyarusso> Burgundavia: jsgotangco, magicfab, and jsgotangco so far - I just de-planetified mine (still posted though)
<beuno> and then updated to link to magicfabs post...
<Burgundavia> just the two?
<tonyyarusso> three
<tonyyarusso> beuno should have been that last one
<Burgundavia> magic fab is a little bit different, he is an employee
<ajmitch> Burgundavia: and his blog no longer has the post
<Burgundavia> it was down for a long time
<elkbuntu> breaking a press embargo is a pretty major thing too
<beuno> but did I go against some rule?
<tonyyarusso> desktoplinux had the story before Fabian made it sound official even.
<Burgundavia> no communtiy member committed any infractions
<elkbuntu> beuno, no, you did not, but they've gone equal treatment for all
<ajmitch> elkbuntu: it is, but I guess there was some miscommunication about an embargo
<ajmitch> we'll find out soon, either way
<Mithrandir> beuno: I wouldn't worry, you might just have exposed information which shouldn't have been public in the first place.
<ajmitch> until then, don't worry :)
<ajmitch> hi Mithrandir 
<Mithrandir> (note, might, I'm not in a position to confirm or deny any dealings that Canonical has or hasn't with any vendors)
<Mithrandir> hiya ajmitch
<beuno> ok, so I should remove the post?  wouldn't it have been better to ask me to remove it?
<Burgundavia> beuno: yep
<Burgundavia> somebody freaked at Canonical, which is totally understandable
<elkbuntu> beuno, there is a problem with that sort of thing. it depends on people being asked to actually read the request to do so. much more effective to just nuke
<mdke> beuno: remove the broken link, I guess. But yeah, it's pretty heavy handed to go around removing stuff from planet without letting the relevant people know. Probably a bit of an overreaction, given that there were already plenty of rumours flying around
* Burgundavia is mildly pissed about this
<beuno> ok removed
* tonyyarusso intends to leave his post up, but refrain from syndicating it to Planet for now
<elkbuntu> i'm annoyed it's happened too, but i can understand the reasons
<tonyyarusso> I don't like being censored.
<beuno> but yeah, not terribly happy, they could of removed it, *and* notified me maybe?
<tonyyarusso> A good person to see.
<Mithrandir> beuno: I agree you should have been notified.
<ajmitch> hey jono 
<tonyyarusso> jono: We're discussing the unexplained forced removal of people from Planet Ubuntu.
<jono> by who?
<tonyyarusso> Someone at Canonical.
<ogra> Riddell, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LtspfsVirtualHalDevices and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LdmImprovements are two specs you probably should make th eKDE ltsp spec depend on
<jono> what?!
<jsgotangco_> yes!
<tonyyarusso> With direct access to the server.
<jono> are you kidding me?
<tonyyarusso> jono: Martin Albisetti, jsgotangco_, and Fabian Rodriguez.
<jsgotangco_> jono: its true
<tonyyarusso> so far
<jono> holy cow
<beuno> nope, all of us who said anything about Dell have been removed
<mdke> it's understandable, to be honest
<Treenaks> jono: The bzr branch has the removed persons; planet.ubuntu.com does not
<mdke> give him the full picture
<tonyyarusso> jono: I de-planetified my post to avoid the same thing for the time being.
<Burgundavia> mdke: fabian broke embargo
<Burgundavia> http://www.desktoplinux.com/news/NS8661763902.html
<tonyyarusso> mdke: agreed
<Burgundavia> ^ there is a great source for rumour as well
<beuno> thats where I got my info
<beuno> http://beuno.com.ar/?p=17 (dont know if thats visible)
<jsgotangco> i only blogged after fab did
<jono> ok two secs
<Burgundavia> removing an employee is different
<elkbuntu> jono, i've still got fabian's post in liferea if you want a paste of it
<tonyyarusso> jono: The main complaint seems to be that nobody got an explanatory letter, etc.  If it's not supposed to be public yet, it makes sense to not want it on planet, but seems a bit heavy-handed.
<Mithrandir> I've given jono the backlog and such, so please give him a moment to catch up?
<tonyyarusso> jsgotangco: same - linked to others who had already mentioned
<tonyyarusso> Mithrandir: sure thing, thanks
<beuno> uhm, what about this: http://robitaille.wordpress.com/2007/04/30/rumour-of-the-day-dell-to-choose-ubuntu/
<mdke> beuno: there's a clear difference between rumours and linking to an official confirmation
<jsgotangco> well he said it nicely that its a rumour
<jsgotangco> heh
<beuno> mdke: right, sorry
<elkbuntu> yep. tact is the key
<jsgotangco> congratulations for the rumour!
<mdke> but hey, even for the linking, who cares. These things come out in the end
<beuno> so did I, but when Fabian said the embargo was lifted, I updated my post (I wasn't aware of any embargo)
* beuno calms down
<beuno> no big deal
<beuno> post is removed, just please ask canonical to at least drop us a line to let us know why we're suddenly off the planet
<jono> ok, who blogged about this dell thing?
<jono> and who was removed?
<Burgundavia> anyway, I need to sleep
<jono> thanks Burgundavia, later pal :)
<elkbuntu> night Burgundavia
<jsgotangco> me
<jsgotangco> :D
<jono> who else?
<tonyyarusso> jono: I blogged, but did not Planet it, not removed (yet)
<beuno> night Burgundavia
<jono> who was removed?
<beuno> jono, me
<mdke> I'll summarise
<jono> thanks mdke
<mdke> jono: Fabian blogged in a semi-official capacity to confirm the rumour. beuno and jsgotangco blogged linking to it. All three have been removed. Those who blogged about public rumours have not been removed.
<jono> right, is this Fabian from Canonical
<mdke> correct
<jono> right
<jono> ok, I need to talk internally with people to see what happened
<Hobbsee> hi jono 
<jono> in my opinion, removing posts from planet is unacceptable
<tonyyarusso> right
<jono> and remove people is too
<jsgotangco> removing only confirms the inevitable anyways
<jono> but thats my hunch right now
<mdke> jsgotangco: yes, although to a smaller audience
<jsgotangco> yeah
<jono> I need to verify everything before I can develop any conclusions though
<jsgotangco> cool with me
<jono> thanks for letting me know folks
<mdke> cya
<beuno> jono, thats my post, http://beuno.com.ar/archives/17
<beuno> password in private
<jono> when did the removals happen, any idea?
<jsgotangco> a few hours ago i'd say
<jsgotangco> since its already 4pm may 1 here i made a blog around 10am 
<Treenaks> around 7:42 CEST posts were disappearing
<jono> right
<jono> and was it posts or people who were removed?
<tonyyarusso> jono: quite recently, since I wasn't on the computer until four hours ago max, and Fabian's post was up then.
<Treenaks> (see the logs from ~ 7:10-7:42 CEST)
<tonyyarusso> People.
<jono> and have the people returned yet?
<Treenaks> no
<tonyyarusso> nope
<jono> hmmm
<jono> ok, let me check into it folks
<tonyyarusso> thanks
<beuno> thanks jono  :D
<jono> np :)
<jono> was it Fabian Rodriguez who was removed?
<cjwatson_> mdke: seems like it'd be reasonable under "advanced topics"
<dholbach> good morning
<tonyyarusso> jono: Fabian Rodriguez, Jerome S. Gotangco, and Martin Albisetti all were.
<jono> thanks tonyyarusso
<jsgotangco> heh it seems fabian's site got dugged
<tonyyarusso> jsgotangco: and boingboing
<jsgotangco> nasty
<Treenaks> that's why he has the 'bandwidth is not a problem' notice there..
<jsgotangco> too bad there's duggmirror
<beuno> and there's this: http://support.dell.com/support/topics/global.aspx/support/dsn/en/document?c=us&l=en&s=gen&docid=2F0A15EB21C7E5DDE040A68F5B285AAE&cs=#top
<jsgotangco> well what's done is done
<beuno> and this: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=428774
<jsgotangco> (and dugg)
<beuno> hard to contain this kind of info...
<jsgotangco> haha lol this is a good day
<beuno> well, I'm still thrilled about the news  :D
<ajmitch> jsgotangco: hm? :)
<beuno> or rumour
<jsgotangco> ajmitch: nahh i was just thinking before the next LTS would be more perfect for OEM, but then again regular releases have 18 months and hardware changes rapidly so its alright to have it on 7.04
<pbn> heh LTS
<jsgotangco> pbn: "next" LTS
<Hobbsee> jsgotangco: the current inspirons, in the case of dapper, dont actually run.
<Hobbsee> well, dont have much of X, anyway.
<Hobbsee> last time i tried
<pbn> jsgotangco: yeah.... when is the next LTS scheduled ?
<pbn> Because hm, LTS should be a good thing, for instance "at work"
<jsgotangco> none is planned for now perhaps next year
<Treenaks> pbn: the next lts isn't scheduled yet
<jsgotangco> 6.06LTS is just a year only in june
<pbn> yeah but, there are some ahm, serious bugs in LTS
<pbn> I've found some bugs "as big as a barn"
<beuno> ok, I'm going to bed, tonyyarusso, jsgotangco or jono, can you drop me a line when this is sorted out?
<pbn> and they aren't being fixed in LTS
<pbn> fixed in Edgy, Feisty, yes...
<pbn> not in LTS
<zyga> hello
<pbn> look at bug 77950 in launchpad.net
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 77950 in kvpnc "kvpnc crashes with SIGSEGV when trying to import a Cisco .pcf file" [Undecided,Fix released]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/77950
<pbn> I reported it on january 4th
<pbn> still no fix, ahem
<Hobbsee> pbn: did you ever see the big X regression?
<pbn> Hobbsee: uh no, what does that mean ?
<ajmitch> kvpnc, universe..
<jsgotangco> universe
<Hobbsee> there was a security update for X, it wasn twell tested, and it broke lots of people's Xservers.
<Hobbsee> so, anything that looks complicated enough that it could break something else, doesnt go in.
<Hobbsee> especially not a LTS
<Hobbsee> that includes version updates.
<pbn> ah ?
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: true
<pbn> That means, because of that, I have to live with a non-working kvpnc on my work laptop ?
<Hobbsee> pbn: say we fix a, but that breaks b.  then all the people scream that b is broken, and that this is LTS, so shouldnt happen.
<Hobbsee> or request a backport
<Hobbsee> jdong: poke
<Hobbsee> as to that last reporter - some of the versions of kde (the new ones) have regressions too.
<Hobbsee> er, poster
<pbn> Hm
<pbn> well I have found a solution, but you guys prolly won't be very happy to hear about it... 
<Hobbsee> shoot
<pbn> I migrated back my work laptop to Debian 4.0
<pbn> and there kvpnc isn't broken
<pbn> I still have a VMWare image of 6.06 LTS with the broken kvpnc... in case there is a fix heh :)
<cjwatson> there's no policy that prevents application crashes in universe from being fixed in dapper, BTW
<cjwatson> just perhaps lack of time
<Hobbsee> cjwatson: and a lack of 'entire-version-updates'
<cjwatson> it's always going to be the case that some bugs remain
<cjwatson> Hobbsee: fixing a segfault doesn't typically require updating to a new upstream version
<Hobbsee> unless we were into cherry picking whatever patch that was
<cjwatson> that would be the correct approach
<pbn> well hm
<ajmitch> usually it's lack of time
<ajmitch> & lack of people
<Hobbsee> of course it woudl.  which requires someoen to go do it, see the lack of time.
<Hobbsee> (and lack of dapper)
<cjwatson> pbn: if you want the bug open, there's a facility to add a dapper task - see 'target to release'
<pbn> since kvpnc works flawlessly in Debian 4.0... Perhaps is it possible to fix the Ubuntu version by looking at the Debian version
<cjwatson> but it is correct to have the main bug task closed
<pbn> there's prolly no "Black Magick" that makes kvpnc work in Debian and not work in Ubuntu... But well I'm not a ubuntu developer or anything...
<cjwatson> the main bug task refers to the development mainline
<pbn> cjwatson: ah, that I didn't know....
<ajmitch> in debian it's a different upstream version (0.8.6.1)
<ajmitch> so there would be a number of changes to review
<ajmitch> hopefully the changelog would be helpful
<pbn> I'm sorry but, imho, LTS is kinda... very far from its goals.... I put that on my work laptop so that I don't have to upgrade ubuntu every six months.... Because I use my work laptop, perhaps, twice a month..... 
<pbn> I chose LTS because it would require less upgrades/fixing
<pbn> and well, kvpnc is broken on LTS, it won't be fixed, so the options are upgrading to Edgy or Feisty... (or well, switching to another distro...)
<pbn> but well I don't wanna start arguing/flaming/trolling :)
<Hobbsee> pbn: if you cherry pick the patch, and find which one it should be, and test it for regressions, then i'll look into putting it in?
<Hobbsee> (as it is, we use the same package as debian)
<ajmitch> right, however much of ubuntu, ie universe & multiverse is community-maintained & doesn't fall under the general LTS support rules. kvpnc is in universe
<pbn> Hobbsee: what exactly does that mean, cherry pick ? I'm uhhh foreign
<Hobbsee> pbn: find the patch that fixes the problem, without introducing any other breakage.  
<Hobbsee> (which will be somewhere in the new release)
<pbn> Hobbsee: ah... 
<pbn> Hobbsee: that's not easy :(
<Hobbsee> pbn: yes.  now you get the idea of why we havent done it :)
<pbn> Hobbsee: yeah, I know, indeed, it's not easy to fix stuff without breaking other things...
<Hobbsee> pbn: (and note how many packages are in universe, whihc is why bugs often arent cherry picked and fixed)
<pbn> well apparently
<pbn> the first idea I had was to pick a version from Debian and "taylor it" so that it will work in ubuntu
<pbn> but debian stable has 0.8.6.1-1
<pbn> and ubuntu LTS has 0.8.2.1
<pbn> so it won't be easy at all
<pbn> they prolly even have completely different dependencies
<pbn> here are the dependencies for kvpnc on Debian stable
<pbn> Version: 0.8.6.1-1
<pbn> Depends: kdelibs4c2a (>= 4:3.5.4-1), libc6 (>= 2.3.6-6), libgcc1 (>= 1:4.1.1-12), libgcrypt11 (>= 1.2.2), libice6 (>= 1:1.0.0), libpng12-0 (>= 1.2.8rel), libqt3-mt (>= 3:3.3.6), libsm6, libstdc++6 (>= 4.1.1-12), libx11-6, libxext6, zlib1g (>= 1:1.2.1), menu, net-tools, psmisc, kdebase-bin | gksu | sux, module-init-tools | modutils
<pbn> ok guys, now I'm away, I have kinda tons of thngs to do for work and school
<pbn> I'd better get some work done :)
<cymcy> hi #ubuntu-devel
<cymcy> I found one thing with feisty. I boot. I log in gnome. I close my session. I go under tty1. I log. I do a ps -u <me>. I see bonobo-activation, evolution-data-server and gconfd-2 still running. Is that normal?
<ion_> At least gconfd should shut down automatically after being unused for a while.
<cymcy> are 20 m not sufficient?
<Kmos> !info referencer
<ubotu> Package referencer does not exist in feisty, feisty-seveas
<mario> hi folks
<mario> hi js
<jsgotangco> hey mario
* ogra pokes the noisy debian BTS .... yes i recieve my own bugmail, no need to send me a reciept as well ...
<cjwatson> ogra: then use the documented X-header to turn off receipts.
<cjwatson> I wrote that code just for people like you ;)
<ogra> ah, great :)
<ogra> i rarely comment on debian bugs directly ... usually i have a link from LP for my stuff ...
<StevenK> Hum. I wonder about stuff existing in the Needs Building queue that probably isn't going to get built, and even if it did, completly unused.
<cjwatson> StevenK: ?
<StevenK> My few case in points are builds for hoary backports and breezy security.
<cjwatson> IIRC those will only build if the buildds have nothing else to do
<StevenK> I can dig up build numbers if you want.
<cjwatson> but I think Celso is working on killing off warty/hoary/breezy from the archive
<cjwatson> just need to be careful that dapper doesn't magically disappear or something :)
<StevenK> Heh
<StevenK> And then Celso says, "Bugger! Missed!"
<robertj_> why does vmware-server in feisty-commercial depend on libssl0.9.7 
<habeeb> Greetings. In Gentoo there is a really useful tool/application called "nopaste". It's easily installable through Portage, and it greatly aids support procedures. Its use is simple, it pastes the output of a command (you pipe it) to http://rafb.net/paste/.
<robertj_> libssl0.9.8 is the version in feisty
<habeeb> From what I know, there is no such tool in Ubuntu.
<robertj_> habeeb: you want pastebinit
<fabbione> robertj_: please file a bug in launchpad, it's clearly an error
<habeeb> robertj_: I see.
<habeeb> Thanks.
<robertj_> fabbione: against app data commmercial or what not?
<Hobbsee> against vmware-server, i think
<fabbione> Hobbsee: i don't think LP has a clue about the commercial repo
<fabbione> robertj_: or even against ubuntu.
<Hobbsee> fabbione: ahhh
<fabbione> let me figure who packaged that
<robertj_> fabbione: I heard through the grapevine you were supposed to file against app-install-data-commercial
<fabbione> robertj_: i am not 100% and i am asking around. just a sec
<robertj_> np
<fabbione> but app-install-data-commercial would do i guess
<fabbione> robertj_: could you also show me your sources.list ?
<robertj_> fabbione: sure, i'll pastebinit ;)
<fabbione> thansk
<robertj_> http://papernapkin.org/pastebin/view/5776
<robertj_> sorry http://papernapkin.org/pastebin/view/5777
<fabbione> robertj_: you need to enable universe
<fabbione> that's all
<fabbione> Filename: pool/universe/o/openssl097/libssl0.9.7_0.9.7k-3.1_i386.deb
<Hobbsee> robertj_: there's no feisty-security in there either...
<robertj_> Hobbsee: thats on the next paste, it is in there htough
<Hobbsee> ahh
<robertj_> fabbione: should those deps be in commercial as well?
<fabbione> robertj_: nope
<fabbione> no need to be there
<robertj_> fabbione: is commercial normally supported if you pay for canonical support?
<kwah> hi all, is there a way for mobile user using Ubuntu to switch the proxy configuration fast?
<fabbione> robertj_: to be 100% hounest i don't know all the policies for commercial. mind if i ask somebody before giving you a stupid answer?
<robertj_> np
<robertj_> also vmware-server-kernel-modules-2.6.20-15  doesn't seem to satisfy vmware-server-kernel-modules
<nealmcb> When I look for blueprints for UDS-Sevilla, I just see one, and a mention that there are 75 proposed.  How do I see the proposed blueprints in launchpad?
<robertj_> vmware-server-kernel-modules-2.6.20-15 is installed but it still says   vmware-server: Depends: vmware-server-kernel-modules but it is not installable
<robertj> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/app-install-data-commercial/+bug/111508 <- can someone confirm that
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 111508 in app-install-data-commercial "broken depends on vmware-server" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  
<stdin> robertj: vmware-server-kernel-modules is installable here
<Treenaks> jono: (planet still isn't updating)
<bddebian> Heya
<sharms> bddebian: hey
<bddebian> Hello sharms
<jsgotangco> hmm
<sharms> There we go
<sharms> http://www.ubuntu.com/news/dell-to-offer-ubuntu
<jsgotangco> ah well how about us that got booted lol
<sharms> jsgotangco: I dont think it is a big deal.  It isn't like there is a god given right to blog on the planet
<sharms> not to mention an 8-12 hour down time isn't going to negatively affect anyone really
<jsgotangco> sure
<zyga> does anyone know if mvo is off for the weekend?
<ogra> likely
<ogra> its a public holiday today in germany ...
<jsgotangco> most countries have today as labour day
<ogra> yeah
<ogra> mvo is apparently not as crazy as dholbach or me to be online on a free day :)
<ion_> What ELSE would one do on a free day? ;-)
<ogra> heh
<ogra> ion_, well, if i were dholbach ... probably watch the riots ...
<jsgotangco> haha
<cr3> brapse: anyways, please go ahead with the logo and then inform Gerry Carr about it. he's the new marketing dude but he only just started.
<cr3> oups, that wasn't meant for this channel :(
<dholbach> ogra: not that exciting - I was there last year
<dholbach> ogra: also I saw them march on the next street from here
<ogra> phew
<ogra> even though kassel is the most boring place in the world, there are days where i like to be here :)
<ogra> the new evolution throbbers everywhere are funny :)
<dholbach> hehe, yeah
<Treenaks> "new evolution throbbers" ?
<Treenaks> sounds.. scary :)
<ogra> you have little foots everywhere ...
<ogra> waving with their toes
<Treenaks> ogra: like the epiphany one?
<ogra> yeah
<ogra> smaller though
<bmhm> hi every1
<bmhm> can some1 send me a fixed .deb of "gDesklets" for feisty 64?
<bmhm> can't compile it myself somehow... 
<cypherbios> bmhm: try at #ubuntu-motu
<bmhm> ty cymcy 
<bmhm> argh
<bmhm> cypherbios: 
<sacater> hello there
<sacater> could a new support method be voIP
<sacater> or has this already been considered
<sacater> ....
<sonium> how Is the procedure if I want to fix a bug in a package?
<sonium> there Is one in quodlibet-ext I want to fix
<seb128> open a bug if there is none
<seb128> and attach you patch to the bug
<sonium> kk, thx
<seb128> you can subscribe the sponsor team then
<sonium> and the maintainer will do the rest?
<pygi> seb128, about that patch, seems it doesn't exist after all :( Brasero worked around bug by doing their own little scsi lib :(
<seb128> sonium: Ubuntu has no assigned maintainer, MOTU is taking care of universe
<seb128> you can try to #ubuntu-motu
<sonium> ok
<seb128> pygi: ok
<pygi> seb128, we should however follow this bug: https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10399
<ubotu> Freedesktop bug 10399 in hald "Wrong maximum burning speed(s)" [Normal,New]  
<seb128> right
<seb128> I'm subscribing to the bug now
<pygi> great
<seb128> hum, might not, the description looks weird
<mdke> cjwatson: yes, I like that idea. I'll add it in manually
<pygi> hi codingmaster 
<codingmaster> hi :)
<codingmaster> I hope for more contributions for my SoC project
<codingmaster> the projectname
<codingmaster> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuFirewallConfiguration/Name
<codingmaster> * project name
<pygi> you again :P
<pygi> just choose name, and be done with it :P
<pygi> codingmaster, btw. Ubuntu + Bonfire is impossible
<pygi> there was a project called Bonfire, but it changed name because of trademark reasons
<codingmaster> thanks for the note :)
<pygi> codingmaster, that project is now called Brasero
<pygi> that ferrari dude is also impossible you know :P
<pygi> ergh
<pygi> goalkeeper :
<pygi> :P
<codingmaster> :p
<codingmaster> well
<codingmaster> Fabian Barthez is the best :)
<pygi> still, you can't use names like that :P
<codingmaster> I know
<codingmaster> posting on 2ml
<codingmaster> and ubuntuforums
<codingmaster> and here
<codingmaster> did not help
<pygi> oh well :P
<codingmaster> PEOPLE I NEED A NAME!!!!
<pygi> Just pick the name on your own :P
<codingmaster> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuFirewallConfiguration/Name
<pygi> codingmaster, + I gave you one :P
<codingmaster> I know :)
<pygi> + did you ask your mentor?
<ajmitch> he gave a name as well
<codingmaster> I have talked with pitti
<codingmaster> he wasn't online in the last days
<pygi> hi ajmitch 
<ajmitch> hey pygi 
* ajmitch saw pitti suggest kraal
<codingmaster> kraal was the old name of a soc
<ajmitch> yep
<codingmaster> I do not want to take an already chosen name
<pygi> codingmaster, ergh, do not spend so much time on a name =)
<codingmaster> well
<codingmaster> I hoped that there will be many ideas from the community
<codingmaster> :)
<codingmaster> I am doing other things right now :)
<codingmaster> but it is time to register the project at launchpad :)
<pygi> close your eyes, open a latin dictionary, and choose a name :P
<codingmaster> :p
<ajmitch> pygi: dangerous :)
<codingmaster> that latin dictionary trick did not work
<pygi> hm, old greek then?
<pygi> ajmitch, ^_^
<ajmitch> might end up with a name from project athena, like kerberos :)
<codingmaster> yes
<pygi> codingmaster, call it "mundi" :P
<codingmaster> already thought about: cerberos <-> kerberos
<ajmitch> hah
<codingmaster> ...
<pygi> a protector of the world :P
<codingmaster> only greek vs. latin
<ajmitch> codingmaster: way too much confusion
<codingmaster> yes
<ajmitch> and it'd be cerberus
<codingmaster> yes, you are right :p
<pygi> the three headed dog
<codingmaster> yes I know :)
<codingmaster> what about dogs from cartoons?
<pygi> I know you know:P
<pygi> probably trademarks
<pygi> like snoopy :P
<codingmaster> yes...
<codingmaster> well
<codingmaster> tom & jerry
<codingmaster> butcher
<codingmaster> or so
<codingmaster> I guess
<cypherbios> hi pygi, when will we have a package for brasero 0.5.90 in gutsy?
<pygi> cypherbios, I'll have it ready by tomorrow =)
<pygi> cypherbios, why?
<cypherbios> pygi: I'm waiting this for a while :)
<pygi> haha, you mean you'll be using gutsy? :P
<jmg> hmm
<pygi> btw. brasero package will use libburn & libisofs by default
<pygi> newest versions even
<pygi> jmg, ? ^_^
<cypherbios> pygi: I'm using gutsy
<jmg> pygi: hi
<pygi> cypherbios, ah :)
<cypherbios> don't you?
<pygi> nop, no need =)
<Nafallo> ofcourse I do ;-)
* pygi kicks Nafallo and runs
<Nafallo> hehe
<Nafallo> evening pygi :-)
<pygi> evening ^_^
<pygi> cypherbios, I have everything ready TBH, I just wanna test some things
<Nafallo> pygi: baah. let the gutsyusers try it for you :-P
<pygi> Nafallo, I will, but I'm afraid the bug I'm after won't be so easily trackable by users
<cypherbios> pygi: do you want help with testing?
<pygi> cypherbios, sure, but after it's in gutsy ;)
<pygi> or tomorrow :P
<pygi> you can get the packages tomorrow
<pygi> just bug me
<Nafallo> :-)
<cypherbios> pygi: sure, I'll
<pygi> dunno if libburn4 and libisofs4 entered gutsy yet, they have to go through NEW
<pygi> if not, then we'll have to wait
<pygi> jdong, good news for your backport efforts =)
<pygi> We'll be able to backport new brasero =)
<jdong> cool :)
<pygi> so you can stay happy ;P
<Nafallo> jdong: people have asked for irssi. could you look at it for edgy-bp? :-)
<lucas_> congrats everyone for feisty and your partnership with dell
<Nafallo> ehrm
<jdong> Nafallo: I am running a feisty bp of it right now
<Nafallo> jdong: feisty-bp even
<Nafallo> jdong: nice :-)
<jdong> Nafallo: gonna give it another day to implode on me, if not I'll fasttrack it
<jdong> the changelog looks sane
<lucas_> Will we be able of choosing some support directly from the dell site ?
<Nafallo> jdong: thanks :-)
<jdong> sure thing
<jdong> irssi ROCKS btw
<jdong> especially when paired up with a libnotify fancy system
<Nafallo> totally does :-)
<Nafallo> hehe
<ion_> Indeed.
* jdong loves his notification spooler
<Nafallo> StevenK: thanks btw :-)
<johanbr> jdong: Notification spooler? For libnotify? I've been looking for something like that - is it publicly available?
<jdong> johanbr: I have a set of 3 python scripts that do that... notify-push, notify-pop, notify-peek
<jdong> johanbr: push/pop manipulate a spool dir in ~/.irssi/spool
<jdong> johanbr: it's a really overkill system, but it works :D
<jdong> if it's helpful I could post it onto my webspace
<johanbr> jdong: Oh, I see. I was hoping for something more generic for looking through expired notifications. 
<jdong> johanbr: naw, I took the easy-hackjob way out :D
<johanbr> Okay. Thank you anyway.
<pygi> jdong, cheater :P
<jdong> lol that's me :)
<jdong> but it works beautifully
<jdong> I can exit my notify poller and then notification queue up
<jdong> my issue with libnotify is that if I start it outside X, I lose all my notifications
<jdong> so I needed a frontend-independent queuing mechanism
<agraveley> are there any truecrypt feisty debs floating around yet? everything i see on the forums has me building from source
* ajmitch thought there were some license issues with that, no?
* agraveley goes to #ubuntu. nevermind.
<jdong> infinity: voulez-vous give back ktorrent on all arches to moi, ce soir?
<ajmitch> looks like they may have resolved those issues though
<Riddell> infinity: also kdebase please
<jmg> the truecrypt license is more about protecting the trademark, and trust associated with that trademark
<jmg> which is unfortunately not dfsg friendly
<ajmitch> but not unknown
<shawarma> We could just rename it?
* agraveley enjoys trusting his encrypted disk provider
<agraveley> congrats on the Dell deal, btw :-)
#ubuntu-devel 2007-05-02
<jdong> is there some trivial way to disable apport except hooks for a python app?
<lifeless> yes, dont raise uncaught exceptions ;)
<lifeless> [why?] 
<jdong> lifeless: well now I know not to, but when I wrote this program, I didn't expect Python to do this to me, so a few of the exit conditions are uncaught exceptions
<jdong> I want to SRU the package to get rid of the annoying behavior
<lifeless> jdong: what, it would deliberately crash?
<jdong> yes, it would let a BuildError slide on crash, or a KeyboardInterrupt for exit, etc
<jdong> maybe a few others too :)
<lifeless> ug
<jdong> I have a feeling I'm gonna be getting a "correct python coding" talk :D
<lifeless> keyboard interrupt apport should let through
<lifeless> that might be a bug
<jdong> keyboardinterrupt might go through right
<jdong> but some of my others were derived from like OSError
<lifeless> also SystemExit it should ignore, again if it doesn't its a bug
<jdong> or IOError or ValueError
<jdong> oops :)
<lifeless> but yeah, if you raise an exception, its like in C, exiting via a segfault.
<lifeless> it'll work, but its fugly.
<jdong> hehe
<jdong> point taken and I've already corrected that behavior in my devel branch
<lifeless> ok
<ion_> Im pro-segfault.
<jdong> so my choices are... (a) don't fix it, (b) add a exception wrapper around my main function (3) find a way to turn off apport
<ion_> And () all of the above
<jdong> well I'm trying to pick the one with the fewest changed lines, so it looks best on a SRU proposal :D
<lifeless> (b)
<lifeless> turning off apport would cause all real errors to not gather defect reports
<lifeless> or did apport get castrated after the release?
<cjwatson> codingmaster: I remember suggesting "uriel", although it doesn't seem to be on your page
<Nafallo> cjwatson: could you give-back gnome-utils on sparc please
<Nafallo> ? :-)
<cjwatson> Nafallo: no (as in, I have no ability to do so)
<Nafallo> cjwatson: oh. who has those days? I thought you had... :-)
<jdong> Nafallo: I liked my give-back request :)
<cjwatson> Nafallo: I have never been a buildd admin
<Nafallo> jdong: oh? :-)
<Nafallo> cjwatson: ah. buildd admins then :-)
<Nafallo> infinity: could you give-back gnome-utils on sparc please? :-)
<jdong> Nafallo: look up for my ping to $nick=1.0/0.0
<jdong> I thought it deserved a few creativity points.
<Nafallo> hehe
<codingmaster> @cjwatson: sorry, I add it now :) - thanks for the idea :)
<codingmaster> @cjwatson: it's there now - thanks :)
<cjwatson> ta
<agraveley> is the gettext-po python binding available anyplace yet?
* Sleepy_Coder goes afk
<vecina> *fearfully enters*
<Sleepy_Coder> *fearfully steals vecina's pocket change*
<vecina> o.o
<Sleepy_Coder> ().()
<vecina> Im having a huge bug. This is actually with kubuntu, but big difference... ive asked a lot of people in a lot of places, so Im just poking here in the hope that someone will know
<vecina> Why is my hald getting messed up when i shut down my computer? I have to reinstall dbus sometimes to get automounting back, and if i dont reinstall hal, i get graphical errors
<vecina> *sigh* oh well it was worth a shot
<infinity> jdong, Riddell, Nafallo : Done.
<jdong> yay thanks infinity :)
<Burgundavia> infinity: hey
<infinity> Bonjour.
<jdong> hey, he does the french thing too :)
<infinity> Un petit peut.
<jdong> lol
<jdong> in that case I'm aliasing that give-back message
<bluefoxicy> what the hell?  The nslookup tool in windows is more complete than the one in Linux?
<Sleepy_Coder> blasphemy!
* bluefoxicy ponders what bsd nslookup is... bsdutil?  nslookup isn't a gnu util
<jmg> dig?
<Sleepy_Coder> How many Windows Genuine Updates did it take to get that way?
<bluefoxicy> Sleepy_Coder:  nslookup doesn't implement anything on linux.  I tried to zone transfer from a weak server and found that ls isn't implemented.  Nor is root, finger, view, help, ?
<jmg> use dig?
<bluefoxicy> yeah, pretty much.
<bluefoxicy> it just irks me.
<johanbr> Years ago, nslookup used to carry a notice that it was deprecated. It doesn't seem to any more.
<Sleepy_Coder> bluefoxicy: lol, I was being sarcastic. :)
<jmg> johanbr: wasnt it the host command that had the banner saying use nslookup instead?
<johanbr> I don't think so.
<johanbr> I could be wrong, though.
<johanbr> Google seems to agree with me.
<Burgundavia> morning Keybuk
<ajmitch> hi Keybuk 
<Keybuk> heyhey
* Keybuk is exhausted
<Keybuk> three US states in one day!
<ajmitch> been travelling a bit?
<Keybuk> yeah
<Keybuk> Texas, Colorado and now Oregon
<Burgundavia> oh geez
<Burgundavia> what for?
<tonyyarusso> wow, not even bordering
<Burgundavia> well, the first is probably dell, the 2nd is probably system76 and the 3rd I have no idea
<ajmitch> and then you get to hop on a plane for spain, lucky you
<Burgundavia> Keybuk: am I right?
<Treenaks> Burgundavia: won't Ubuntu Live be in Oregon in July?
<Keybuk> Burgundavia: no ;)
<Burgundavia> Keybuk: I can try
<Burgundavia> I mean, I could build an entire conspiracy theory around that trip
<Hobbsee> Burgundavia: and then blog about it
<Hobbsee> of course
<Hobbsee> hiya, btw
<Keybuk> *sigh* yeah, that's always a great idea ;)
<Burgundavia> I have already blogged once today and am about to blog a 2nd time
<Burgundavia> 3rd is a bit excessive
<ajmitch> Burgundavia: that's a lot more than I have
<ion_> burgundavia: He went back in time to Area 51 to prevent the US government from blowing up WTC, while meeting some gray aliens on the movie set of the fake moon landings?
<Burgundavia> ok, that is entirely over the top
<Burgundavia> a good conspiracy theory is simple
* ajmitch considers emailing hr@
<Treenaks> ajmitch: what would hr@ want with a conspiracy theory? :P
<ajmitch> Treenaks: nothing
<ajmitch> though they may get a few laughs out of it
<pitti> Good morning
<ion_> Bono estente, pitti.
<Treenaks> wow @ xkcd.com
<ajmitch> hey pitti 
<jmg> timeline
<Mithrandir> Treenaks: with "Stallman's airship" too
<jmg> www.digg.com lol.
<Mithrandir> "Soviet Russia" too.
<Burgundavia> hmm, wonder what eler are going to do with this Dell thing
<ajmitch> hi Mithrandir 
<tonyyarusso> eler?
<Mithrandir> hiya ajmitch 
<shawarma> tonyyarusso: Everybody Loves Eric Raymond.
<shawarma> tonyyarusso: Just google for "eler"
<tonyyarusso> ah, right
* Mithrandir kicks sync-source in the nuts
<Hobbsee> Mithrandir: sync-source?
<Mithrandir> the tool we use to sync packages from elsewhere.
<Mithrandir> it was being annoying
<Hobbsee> ahhh
<Mithrandir> and it's even more annoying that it restarts from scratch after falling over.
<Mithrandir> even more so when I'm syncing 500-ish packages.
<Hobbsee> hah
<Hobbsee> yes
<dholbach> GOOD MORNING
<mdke> morning dholbach 
<mdke> very convincingly said
<dholbach> heya mdke
<dholbach> :-)
<mdke> sun is shining in Berlin?
<dholbach> it's a bit cloudy, but it's good :)
<dholbach> how are you?
<mdke> very well, sun is shining here
<dholbach> nice :)
<mdke> cjwatson: should I change the value of &url-install-manual; to what the new address will be? You might want to do that in the package I guess
<mdke> cjwatson: here is a diff of what I've changed: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/18764/
<Nafallo> infinity: thanks
<Nafallo> dholbach: morning handsome :-)
<cjwatson> mdke: yeah, feel free to change that in your tree - I'll see about merging, although I have to do a complicated merge from Debian that I didn't manage to finish last cycle
<cjwatson> wget -O mdke.diff http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/18764/plain/ # will have to do for now
<dholbach> heya Nafallo
<mdke> cjwatson: you might not want the change to buildone.sh 
<mdke> anyway, should be online whenever newz can get round to uploading it
<Nafallo> morning everyone :-)
<tkamppeter> hi, pitti
<zyga> mvo: hey
<mvo> hey zyga!
<zyga> mvo: how is your weekend? :-)
<mvo> zyga: it was great! long and very relaxing :)
<zyga> mvo: I have some interesting news on cnf front
<mvo> zyga: much needed after the stressful release :P
<zyga> mvo: I got the raw data scan down to 700K
<mvo> zyga: woah! that is great!
<mvo> zyga: should I merge from you?
<zyga> and I have fixed a major bug that probably missed alot of stuff in packages
<pitti> hello tkamppeter, how are you?
<zyga> not yet unless you want to see the state of flux today :-)
<mvo> zyga: haha, ok :)
<zyga> one last thing is the new format that is no longer arch dependent
<zyga> this time the whole archive is universal as the changes from arch to arch are less than 50K
<zyga> (for all arches)
<siretart> cjwatson: I'd like to register specs for sevilla, but I'm unsure how to propse them to the conference next week. shall I set the goal for gutsy like in https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/wine-gutsy-roadmap/?
<zyga> I have also found several bugs in other packages: mostly programs being in /usr/bin but -x
<zyga> I also have some other bugs pending where one package has 3 binaries on some platformsa and for example, only two on one specific (seems like an accident)
<siretart> that doesn't seem to match with the UDS, but rather for gutsy in general.. hmm
<mvo> zyga: if the data is not that big, having a arch: all package is fine. i
<cjwatson> siretart: no, don't set a release goal; use "propose for meeting agenda"
<zyga> yeah the data is even smaller than before :D
<zyga> slighly but still
<mvo> zyga: this kind of error checking sounds very very useful, lets add  a mode to the scanner so that we can run it in "check-archive"-mode 
<zyga> it was caused by the serious hardling bug discovered by someone
<cjwatson> gar @ -roadmap specs, too
<zyga> I have several new programs that do that
<siretart> cjwatson: aaah, found it!
<zyga> oh and the scan format is improved 
<mvo> zyga: I'm subscribed to the command-not-found bugs, but I'm currently a weekend behind my buglist :/
<zyga> first the big dump (as before) is transformed to a package map (0.7MB)
<zyga> then that map is transformed to the regular format or to the legacy format
<siretart> cjwatson: is there some way to see the already but not yet accepted specs for sevilla?
<zyga> we could ship an update to feisty data next week if you agree, many programs were missed because of that bug
<cjwatson> siretart: I think you need superpowers for that
<siretart> cjwatson: hm. okay. Do you happen to know if there is some discussion (aka spec) planned for having crypted filesystem (or rather crypted blockdevices via cryptsetup) support in 7.10?
<cjwatson> siretart: (FWIW, I don't have those superpowers either)
<siretart> hm. looks I'd need to catch some TB member..
<cjwatson> mdz: can we make /sprints/uds-sevilla be driven by ubuntu-drivers or something so that I can prod it?
<mdz> cjwatson: just crashed my firefox trying
<cjwatson> whee
<cjwatson> siretart: crypted filesystem support is on the core schedule (i.e. the stuff that's been pre-scheduled by hand)
<mvo> zyga: I'm fine with that, but we need a propper diff so that the changes can be audited manually to protect against regressions
<mdz> cjwatson: repeatably, even
<siretart> cjwatson: whee! I was just about to register a spec about this :) 
<mvo> zyga: thanks for that great work, thats really cool!
<cjwatson> siretart: I'll add your name to the list for that spec
<cjwatson> s/spec/workshop/
<zyga> mvo: as before, the scan can be generated with -legacy-scan-data and manual diff :-)
<cjwatson> mdz: w3m? :)
<mvo> zyga: good!
<siretart> cjwatson: that would be great!
<siretart> cjwatson: is that spec in launchpad? what's the name?
<mdz> pitti: I'm not getting a crash dump from it for some reason
<pitti> mvo: for what?
<pitti> mdz: for a ffox crash?
<cjwatson> siretart: oh, er. except it conflicts with revu/contributing which you're also down for
<mdz> pitti: not entirely certain it's dying from a signal; looking at it now
<pitti> mdz: if it's SIGABRT, we ignore it; the log might tell?
<cjwatson> siretart: we haven't gone through and sorted out all the core-schedule workshops having specs in launchpad yet - I'm planning to do that today or tomorrow
<mdz> /usr/lib/firefox/firefox-bin: symbol lookup error: /usr/lib/firefox/components/libmyspell.so: undefined symbol: _ZN8Hunspell5spellEPKc
<asac> mdz: ffox needs a fix because hunspell upgrade was incompatible
<asac> e.g. a respin + a patch
<siretart> cjwatson: aaah, I see. thanks for looking this up for me
<tkamppeter> pitti, fine.
<tkamppeter> pitti, is the apport still activated by default in the released Feisty? I still get gs-esp crash reports regularly.
* cjwatson resolves the schedule conflict
<pitti> tkamppeter: reports are still written, but not reported to the user any more by default
<asac> i am waiting for nss and nspr package to be synched from debian ... anyone can speed this up?
<cjwatson> asac: have you filed sync bugs?
<cjwatson> oh, are they new packages?
<asac> i have ... though seb128 told me that this was not needed??
<asac> yes they are new
<seb128> cjwatson: there is bug opens but they are new packages
<cjwatson> indeed, bugs aren't needed
<cjwatson> asac: I can do that for you once whoever is doing an autosync run has finished
<cjwatson> (Tollef, at a guess)
<seb128> cjwatson: new packages are not part of the autosync run?
<asac> cjwatson: you rock ... shall i remind you in a few hours?
<asac> mdz: for the time being try to downgrade libhunspell ;)
<cjwatson> seb128: no
<cjwatson> autosync -> sync-source -a, new packages -> new-source and sync-source individually
<cjwatson> asac: sure
<seb128> ok
<cjwatson> asac: actually, somebody is syncing them at the moment, so no need
<asac> ah ... any ETA?
* cjwatson spies on 'ps x' output
<cjwatson> asac: few hours
<cjwatson> (once you take NEW into account, etc.)
<cjwatson> asac: do these need to go into main? if so, are they just split out from an existing package, or is there anything fundamentally new in there?
<asac> cjwatson: can you direct them to main?
<asac> no .. they are split out ... + soname
<asac> cjwatson: there are preview packages if you want to do a review
<cjwatson> I can certainly direct them to main, yes
<cjwatson> it's ok, I'll eyeball them in the queue
<asac> ok fine :)
<saispo> hi all
<saispo> who maintain samba ?
<seb128> nobody
<seb128> we have no assigned maintainer
<seb128> infinity was looking at it
<seb128> why?
<mdz> saispo: samba is maintained by the Debian samba team; Ubuntu makes only trivial changes to it
<mdz> (and by upstream of course)
<saispo> k
<saispo> seb128: ok, because i have a bug under ubuntu, but with the same config, on edgy no bug, the same config on Mandriva no bug...
<saispo> seb128: i will investigate more :)
<seb128> saispo: what bug?
<saispo> a segfault when /proc/sys/kernel/domainname is set to (none)
<saispo> a bug is open on launchpad
<seb128> ah ok
<seb128> saispo: does mandriva uses the same samba version?
<saispo> yep
<saispo> 3.0.24
<seb128> ok, so maybe it's due to a distribution patch or they have a patch to fix it
<saispo> the version in Debian is more recent than the feisty, will try with it
<seb128> let me know if you figure something
<saispo> k
<saispo> no problem :)
<Riddell> infinity: I'm after a mass kde give back please: kdegraphics, kdeadmin, kdetoys, kdenetwork, kdemultimedia, kdepim, kdeedu, kdeartwork
<Mithrandir> Riddell: I'll get to it
<Riddell> Mithrandir: thanks
<Mithrandir> Hobbsee!
<Simira> Mithrandir!
<Mithrandir> Simira!
* Mithrandir hugs Simira
<Simira> Hobbsee: taking off soon? :)
<Simira> Mithrandir: remember to bring the large suitcase for Hobbsee 
<Mithrandir> Simira: yup, I was planning on that one.
<Mithrandir> though, a backpack might be more comfortable?
<Simira> Mithrandir: probably harder to carry? The suitcase has wheels on it?
<Hobbsee> Mithrandir!  Simira!
<Hobbsee> Simira: less than 24 hours, yep!
<Hobbsee> haha :D
<fabbione> Hobbsee: wb
* Hobbsee pictures bouncing repeatedly...
<fabbione> Simira: hey...
<Simira> hi fabbione! How's the family doing?
<fabbione> Simira: all good thanks
<Hobbsee> heya fabbione!
* Hobbsee bounces
<fabbione> Simira: the little one is taking a nap
<Simira> fabbione: not running all around yet?
<fabbione> Simira: oh yeah.. he can crawl around now, and he is learning to climb the jails and stand up
<fabbione> Simira: it's scary how quickly he does that
<Hobbsee> haha
<Simira> fabbione: I can imagine... one of the real scary periods with a child
<Hobbsee> fabbione: will have to play the role of embarrassed person when the fabbioneclan goes shopping now...
<Hobbsee> er, s/person/parent/
<fabbione> Simira: no.. the real scary period is when they will become teenagers :P
<Hobbsee> haha
<fabbione> Hobbsee: ehehe
<Simira> fabbione: one of them, I said. I didn't say it doesn't get worse ;)
<fabbione> Simira: yeah.. true that
* Hobbsee wonders how Simira got so wise in this?
<Simira> Hobbsee: all my cousins are younger than me...
<Hobbsee> Simira: ahhh..  yes, that helps
<seb128> slomo: any reason you are not on #ubuntu-desktop? ;)
<seb128> ups, you are, completion didn't work correctly
<seb128> or I used the wrong key ;)
<Hobbsee> seb128: damn those keyboards that dont operate on brain waves!
<seb128> Hobbsee: right ;)
<mdz> asac: that bug seems to break any page with a textarea.   I think this will make it difficult to report in Launchpad :-)
<asac> mdz: hehe ... right;) ... but this special bug is known
<asac> if nss/nspr don't land today i will upload an intermediate fix
<asac> so gutsy people can use firefox
<asac> problem was that we used experimental hunspell version from debian ... and debian maintainer assumed it was ok to break abi
<Hobbsee> Mithrandir: in that suitcase, be sure to bring Simira please.
<Mithrandir> Hobbsee: good point, I should.
<Simira> Hobbsee: it's not room for Odin in there
<Hobbsee> Simira: then how on earth would you expect me to fit in there?  :P
<Hobbsee> Mithrandir: yes.  else there will be the doomstick treatment.
<Simira> Hobbsee: ok, it's not room for BOTH me AND Odin
<asac> mdz: maybe try to disable spellchecker for now
<Simira> Hobbsee: and no doomstick on my husband, may I ask
<Hobbsee> Simira: ahhh, point.  and yes you may ask
<Simira> Hobbsee: and I WILL be obeyed! :p
<Hobbsee> Simira: O RLY NOW?
<Hobbsee> :P
<Riddell> pitti: any plans to review feisty-proposed uploads?
<pitti> Riddell: yes, it's high on my list indeed
<Riddell> pitti: great
<pitti> mdz, iwj: does http://pastebin.ca/467105 look reasonable for you as a check for following the Ubuntu merging policy? (use -v and describe remaining changes) it's only a heuristic of course
<mdz> asac: will layout.spellcheckDefault=0 do that?
<mdz> pitti: 'merge.*debian' is probably sufficient (e.g., "Merge Debian changes", or "Merge ... from Debian"
<pitti> ah, right
<cjwatson> pitti: hmm, I sort of feel that's going too far along the road that's a pain for third party developers to turn off
<mdz> pitti: maybe link to an anchor on UbuntuDevelopment which explains in more detail?
<pitti> cjwatson: it has $ENV{'DEBEMAIL'} =~ /ubuntu/
<mdz> cjwatson: just like the other check, it's conditional on DEBEMAIL
<asac> mdz: yes
<pitti> mdz: good idea
<cjwatson> shrug, just feels like going too far to me
<cjwatson> we already get people turning up here from time to time who are Ubuntu members and have DEBEMAIL =~ /ubuntu/, but aren't actually Ubuntu *developers* and get confused by the existing check
<mdz> asac: that works around it, thanks.
<mdz> asac: if there's a bug open in launchpad, please note that on the bug as well
<cjwatson> I think it's worth it for the maintainer check since that was something we were asked to do, but this is just for our own convenience
<cjwatson> and also /ubuntu/ matches derivatives that happen to contain "ubuntu"
<cjwatson> who may be merging from us
<cjwatson> "merge from Debian via Ubuntuu"
<cjwatson> s/u"/"/
<Mithrandir> make it part of debuild, not dpkg-buildpackage, if anything?
<pitti> Mithrandir: what would that change, by and large?
<cjwatson> pitti: also, please make it a warning not an error
<Mithrandir> pitti: debuild is more of a kitchen sink than dpkg-buildpackage?
<asac> mdz: done bug 111568
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 111568 in firefox "Gutsy Firefox crashes when spell checking enabled" [High,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/111568
<pitti> cjwatson: well, then we don't really need to do it, I think; even building a source package is noisy enough to make warnings just get drowned in the scrolling flood
<cjwatson> pitti: the warnings at the end tend to be noticed a bit more
<cjwatson> I agree for stuff earlier on, but dpkg-genchanges is right at the end
<pitti> hm; it seems we never actually wikified the merging Policy
<cjwatson> and this is such a fuzzy check that it seems quite likely to misfire on occasion
<pitti> cjwatson: ok; let's see whether it will have an impact
<carlos> pitti: hi
<carlos> around ?
<pitti> hey carlos
<carlos> pitti: did you enable again daily lang packs? (and prepared everything for Feisty updates?)
<pitti> carlos: yes, I did
<carlos> ok
<carlos> seems like there is a problem with the fixed name link
<carlos> and thus, I guess you didn't get any update yet
* carlos fixes it
<pitti> carlos: it just didn't build feisty-updates because ~carlos/public_html/language-packs/feisty-updates/ does not have rosetta-feisty-updates.tar.gz
<carlos> yeah, seems like the link is not being updated nor created
<carlos> pitti: fixed
<pitti> carlos: thanks
<carlos> if you want to run the script again, today exports should work
<pitti> carlos: started
<mdz> asac: thanks
<fabbione> OH great
<fabbione> mdz: how can i workaround that FF crash?
<mdz> fabbione: it's in the bug
<fabbione> thanks
<mdz> bug 111568
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 111568 in firefox "Gutsy Firefox crashes when spell checking enabled" [High,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/111568
<iwj> pitti: I think I agree with cjwatson, FWIW.  (Sorry, I didn't see your message earlier; apparently my client doesn't embolden unless my nick is first, or something?)
<pitti> iwj: right, thanks; I changed it to be warnings in debuild now
<pitti> debuild collects warnings and writes them out as last step, that's reasonable
<TheMuso> Is there any reason why a package that builds fine in a pbuilder FTBFS on the same arch in the DC? The build step for the package requires pkg-config >= 0.8, and can't seem to find it, even though version 0.21 gets installed? As I said, in pbuilder, fine, yet it failed in the DC.
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: isnt .21 less than .8?
<StevenK> zsh: exit 1     dpkg --compare-versions 0.21 lt 0.8
<Hobbsee> hrm, okay then
<mjg59> 0.21 is less than 0.8 if talking about decimal representation, but not if talking about version numbers
<Hobbsee> ahhhh
* Hobbsee thought version numbers were decimal, for a second there
<cjwatson> TheMuso: do you have a link to the build log?
<mjg59> And given that things like 0.2.1 clearly aren't decimal representation...
<Mithrandir> StevenK: you can't ask dpkg about how pkg-config compares version numbers. :-P  But 0.8 is less than 0.21, that's right.
<Hobbsee> mjg59: yeah, i get the point, i need the duncecap again :P
<TheMuso> cjwatson: http://librarian.launchpad.net/7510669/buildlog_ubuntu-gutsy-i386.ardour_1:2.0-0ubuntu1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
* Hobbsee should just really leave that on...
<TheMuso> Yet it still doesn't explain why pbuilder worked.
<TheMuso> to me anyway.
<StevenK> It uses scons. That explains everything.
* StevenK goes to ritually cleanse himself.
<cjwatson> that is very weird, I don't see an obvious reason for that to fail either
<asac> iwj: do you remember why firefox user-agent string was branded by ...extra.firefoxComment pref and not .vendor / .vendorSub / .vendorComment ?
<cjwatson> it's doing 'pkg-config --atleast-pkgconfig-version=0.8.0'
<StevenK> Mithrandir: Point. I thought it was dying during Build-Depends.
<Mithrandir> cjwatson: PATH might be borked, for some insane reason.
<asac> iwj: if i set vendor=Ubuntu; vendorSub=7.04 and vendorComment=Feisty i get: 
<asac> iwj:   Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux x86_64; en-US; rv:1.8.1.3) Gecko/20061201 Ubuntu/7.04 (Feisty) Firefox/2.0.0.3
<asac> iwj: vs now:
<asac> iwj:   Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux x86_64; en-US; rv:1.8.1.3) Gecko/20061201 Firefox/2.0.0.3 (Ubuntu-feisty)
<rlking> .
* pitti looks at the powerpc shadow FTBFS and thinks "WTF??"
<pitti> cc -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I. -I. -I.. -I../lib    -g -D_LARGEFILE_SOURCE -D_LARGEFILE64_SOURCE -D_FILE_OFFSET_BITS=64 -O2 -c utmp.c
<pitti> /tmp/ccldQxqc.s: Assembler messages:
<pitti> /tmp/ccldQxqc.s:144: Error: operand out of range (0x000000000000ffff is not between 0x0000000000000000 and 0x00000000000000ff)
<pitti> doko: ^ did you happen to see this somewhere?
<pitti> doko: (there's no assembler in that file)
<cjwatson> I saw that somewhere else too, though it was during the kernel headers mess so at the time I put it down to a strange side-effect of that
<fabbione> pitti: that's probable a fall out from kernel headers
<doko> pitti: that's powerpc, correct?
<fabbione> cjwatson: it was on the kernel scripts
<pitti> ok, so I'll just build it again and see
<pitti> doko: right
<fabbione> pitti: yeps
* TheMuso remembers building a simple source file on ppc the other day and seeing similar behavior. The problem went away after an update.
<cjwatson> fabbione: this is since that though
<doko> pitti: known, needs a binutils update
<cjwatson> I think?
<pitti> doko: oh, ok; so I'll just ask for a give-back after that
<cjwatson> pitti: http://librarian.launchpad.net/7484517/buildlog_ubuntu-gutsy-powerpc.shadow_1%3A4.0.18.1-7_FULLYBUILT.txt.gz is a successful build of apparently the most recent version
<pitti> cjwatson: ah, heh; I just got the FTBFS mails and wondered
<iwj> asac: The thing I did to it was to remove some of the extraneous information which seemed like rather too much of a privacy (and perhaps security) hazard.  There was a bug about it IIRC.
<iwj> But from what you say above that doesn't seem to be working atm.
<iwj> Ideally the browser string wouldn't tell a rogue webserver which exploits to send.
<asac> iwj: so we don't want feisty info?
<iwj> I'm more worried about the upstream patchlevel TBH.
<asac> or are you saying that you don't want version of firefx?
<iwj> Saying `feisty' doesn't seem harmful.
<asac> well ... you can guess upstream patchlevel from that too :)
<iwj> Only if you know whether the user has upgraded.
<Mithrandir> doko: the fixed binutils has been in the archive for a while.
<cjwatson> iwj: isn't this the same argument people use to object to ssh sending version information in its banner? It didn't convince me there either
<doko> Mithrandir: ahh, right, that was the previous powerpc thing
<cjwatson> er, I mean sshd
<asac> iwj: hmm. I remember upstream complaining about ubuntu not having most recent version info
<cjwatson> because people will just try all the exploits they know, rather than messing about trying to select an optimal set of exploits
<cjwatson> perhaps this is differently true in the case of a web browser
<iwj> cjwatson: Yes.  With a browser it's harder to just try them all; you'd end up having to contrive to arrange for the browser to fetch lots of things some of which may give a `do your work [yes]  [no] ' dialogue, etc.
<asac> i don't think version info is important to obfuscate
<asac> iwj: you will always use the latest :)
<iwj> You want to send an exploit that will work and not crash the target, too.
<iwj> Which is hardly important in a forking daemon.
<cjwatson> true
<asac> hehe ... yes, but if you have a javascript exploit you won't have to bother with that ;)
<iwj> What was upstream's complaint ?
<asac> it was back in the 1.0.x days .... iirc it was about you braeking there addons site
<asac> s/there/their/
<iwj> The `security and stability' changes ought not to break addons so they don't need to key off that version number.
<asac> yes ... it was more about some exploit directly related with addons site
<iwj> Uh?
<asac> e.g. so they didn't allow people to go to addons
<iwj> Oh, I see.
<asac> with some version number ... don't ask me ... would have to digg up old mail (if i still have it)
<iwj> That can be fixed by special knowledge about the addons site in the browser.
<asac> personally i agree that web applications should not depend on minor version
<asac> anyway ... my initial question was not about this ... but more about the different position of ubuntu/feisty info.
<asac> :)
<mdz> cjwatson: uds-sevilla driver set
<iwj> I think it's fine to say `feisty' or give the major number.  I don't have an opinion about the exact formatting of the string.
<cjwatson> asac: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CodeNamesToVersionNumbers is one thing to consider here; although as it happens I don't think the firefox version info string is desktop-visible enough to cause people to be confused into thinking development milestones are final releases, so I think it's probably OK to have the release version number in there
<iwj> cjwatson: Oh, good point.
<cjwatson> just something to bear in mind when changing that stuff
<asac> cjwatson: good ... will consider this. has it been considered to use different version in /etc/lsb-release during development and bump version right before release?
<cjwatson> asac: yes, and we do precisely that ;-)
<cjwatson>  DISTRIB_ID=Ubuntu
<cjwatson> -DISTRIB_RELEASE=7.04
<cjwatson> -DISTRIB_CODENAME=feisty
<cjwatson> -DISTRIB_DESCRIPTION="Ubuntu 7.04"
<cjwatson> +DISTRIB_RELEASE=7.10
<cjwatson> +DISTRIB_CODENAME=gutsy
<cjwatson> +DISTRIB_DESCRIPTION="Ubuntu gutsy (development branch)"
<cjwatson> I think it's correct to have DISTRIB_RELEASE as it is, because code keys off that, but we've been changing DISTRIB_DESCRIPTION just before release for a while now
<asac> ok i think i understand
<asac> :)
<pirast> keescook, hi
<tkamppeter> pitti, is the behaviour of apport managed by a config file? This would perhaps mean that someone who has used Feisty during the development period will have apport popping up still after Feisty went final.
<pitti> tkamppeter: no, it's a gconf key
<pitti> tkamppeter: so some people might have enabled it again, or aren't fully up to date
<tkamppeter> pitti, thanks.
<flyby5> The news is that our beloved Head of Freenode Staff _christel_ works together with the anti Rob Levin network OFTC now to fight against trolls.
<flyby5> And all your donations are used to pay a lawyer, so that Freenode can be a home of script kiddies like trelane, while people with justified complaints are removed.
<flyby5> In the main focus are not Free and Open Source Projects. What staff members care about is their hobby and fun. And you pay for it with your donations.
* mode/#ubuntu-devel [+o Hobbsee]  by ChanServ
* mode/#ubuntu-devel [+b *!*@CPE0016d44cb987-CM00137116f9e0.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com]  by Hobbsee
* flyby5 was kicked off #ubuntu-devel by Hobbsee (Hobbsee)
<rlking_> .
<Hobbsee> ?
<Mithrandir> thanks Hobbsee 
<Hobbsee> Mithrandir: urgh.  it's a moron
<Hobbsee> [22:11]  <Hobbsee> flyby5: that's still no excuse to spam channels, though
<Hobbsee> [22:11]  <flyby5> Hobbsee, thats the only logic consequence of repeated k-lines
<Mithrandir> uh.
<TheMuso> And no ops around in that channel either. :S
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: of course, yes.
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: there are no staffers around
<Hobbsee> we have normality.  repeat, we have normality.
<TheMuso> heh
* Mithrandir gets a deja-vu to paranoia, a game he's never played.
<Hobbsee> Mithrandir: hm?
<StevenK> I got a flash-back to Hitchhikers, actually
<Hobbsee> yes, it was hitchhikers
<StevenK> But IRC is no Heart of Gold. :-P
<Treenaks> Mithrandir: Are you happy, citizen?
<Mithrandir> Treenaks: I am.
<Hobbsee> StevenK: are you sure?
<zyga> mvo: I'm wondering about all those arch-unique packages
<Treenaks> Happiness is mandatory! The computer is your friend.
<zyga> I know that stuff like wine is x86-only but the rest is quite puzzling
<StevenK> Hobbsee: Quite. :-P
<zyga> do you think that it's worth investigating/filing bugs about such packages?
<zyga> I've got the full list http://suxx.pl/~zyga/unique-packages.txt
<zyga> it's quite short
<mvo> zyga: its not uncommon for hardware specific stuff
<mvo> zyga: something might be there by accident
<Treenaks> Why is 'Ubuntu Directory Services' subscribed to kdebase questiosn?!
* Treenaks unsubs from team
<Mithrandir> Treenaks: because somebody is on crack.
<Treenaks> Mithrandir: apparently
<Mithrandir> or something.
<mc44> Mithrandir: you'll never be able to enter the US now, you crazy fool :p
<Hobbsee> (spammer klined)
<robertj_> what causes one to receive -answers mail?
<Hobbsee> robertj_: bug.  see #launchpad conversation
<robertj_> Hobbsee: ehh, not that interested i'll just ignore all the -answers mail for 24 hours :)
<doko> pitti: please premove gcc-4.1-multilib, needed for the next glibc upload (and maybe the other gcc binaries waiting for promotion as well)
<pitti> doko: premove -> remove?
<doko> pitti: bah, promote even
<pitti> doko: ah, I see; I already wondered about what to do with the rdepends ;)
* Mithrandir chuckles.
<Mithrandir> I was wondering why the packages NEWed less than a week ago should be removed already.
<pitti> Mithrandir: development goes at fast pace :)
<Mithrandir> blazing, I'd say.
<pitti> doko: promoted
<pitti> doko: g++-4.1-multilib and friends as well?
<StevenK> Mithrandir: So someone can NEW it again, of course.
* Mithrandir kicks himself for not running generate-diffs in screen
* pitti -> lunch, bbl
<nrdb> I have just installed 7.04 I did an update, but now I can't get apt-get or dpkg to work at all :(  when I run apt-get I get an error message "E: dpkg was interrupted, you must manually run 'dpkg --configure -a' to correct the problem."  when I run dpkg I get "dpkg: parse error, in file `/var/lib/dpkg/updates/0007' near line 1:"  and " field name `y/ttyx8' must be followed by colon"  :(  what can I do to fix this 
<mdz> nrdb: this channel is for development conversations, #ubuntu is the place to go for help
<nrdb> mdz: on one answered there
<Hobbsee> nrdb: id' suggest reading the error message and following it, too
<Hobbsee> and #ubuntu
<mdz> nrdb: I'm sorry about that, but it is still true
* nrdb I will try again
<StevenK> Drat! I forgot -v when generated a .changes
<doko> pitti: wouldn't hurt
<Mithrandir> jdong: nice quite message
<jdong> doko: I've been meaning to ask, do you know any reason for bug 109768?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 109768 in python-defaults "idle started -n, vulnerable to deadlocking" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/109768
<jdong> Mithrandir: why thank you :)
<Nafallo> jdong: I liked the serial better though ;-)
<jdong> (I figured there must've been _some_ motivation to start it -n, rather than 'hey lets let it hang while executing code' :D
<jdong> Nafallo: that'll come back when this fad is over
<Nafallo> jdong: :-)
<jdong> Nafallo: until then, it's my wallpaper and all my cubecaps too :D
<Nafallo> *asg*
<doko> jdong: updated the report
<jdong> doko: thanks
<pitti> doko: promoted
<Solarion> there gonna be 2.6.21 in feisty, or is that slated for gutsy?
<Solarion> 'cause dynticks would be oh so tasty
<Mithrandir> Solarion: feisty is released so it doesn't get any updates of that kind.
<Mithrandir> gutsy is getting 2.6.22
<Solarion> but the repos aren't open yet, is that correct?
<StevenK> Sure they are.
<Mithrandir> they've been open for a week or so
<Solarion> (Kinda thorught that might be the case)
<Solarion> oh?
<Solarion> is anyone using them?
<Mithrandir> there's been a slew of uploads, yes.  Why?
<Solarion> between dynticks and randr1.2 this could be a very rockin' release for notebooks
<Solarion> Mithrandir: I want dyntick tastiness and have (little) fear of unstable ubuntu thus far.  :)
<Mithrandir> I'd probably have waited a week or two before diving into gutsy, but if you have a system you're not afraid of sacrificing..
<Solarion> *after* the comps presentation
<Solarion> :)
<Solarion> not a good idea to have breakage right before a big presentation
<Solarion> is randr1.2 already included?
<tepsipakki> Solarion: nope
<Solarion> tepsipakki!
<tepsipakki> ie. there is no xserver which uses it
<Solarion> tepsipakki: I thought there was
<tepsipakki> 1.3 is in debian now
<Solarion> stupid low battery
<Solarion> randr is at 1.3 now?
<tepsipakki> no, I meant that xorg-server 1.3 uses randr1.2 ;)
<Solarion> ah, right.  1.3 comes after 7.2 or somethin.g  ;)
<Solarion> so when is xorg-server 1.3 supposed to be in ubuntu?
<tepsipakki> 7.2 had xorg-server-1.2
<tepsipakki> 7.3 will have 1.4
<tepsipakki> Solarion: before gutsy is out, for sure :P
<Solarion> probably should wait until it's actually released before pesting ye too much, eh?  ;)
<tepsipakki> 1.3 is released a few weeks ago
<tepsipakki> was
<JohnFlux> Hey all
<JohnFlux> there's a serious bug with ktorrent
<JohnFlux> that crashes it (and hence probably exploitable) with bad input from outside
<JohnFlux> it's fixed upstream, but not in fiesty
<crimsun> have you checked the proposed SRU?
<JohnFlux> it would seem pretty important to update the package
<JohnFlux> what's SRU sorry?
<crimsun> /ubuntu/+source/ktorrent/+bugs/
<JohnFlux> where?
<crimsun> StableReleaseUpdates
<crimsun> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ktorrent/+bugs/
<crimsun> 110881 to be precise
<crimsun> anyhow, ->class.
<jdong> johnflux: I've submitted a SRU for it already.... imbrandon said he'd review it :)
<jdong> *cough*
<bddebian> Heya
<JohnFlux> jdong: yeah was just looking at your patch
<JohnFlux> thanks for doing that
<JohnFlux> jdong: do you have a package for it ?
<JohnFlux> imbrandon: could you review jdong's patch please :-)
<imbrandon> JohnFlux: yes i will get to it today
<sharms> Can anyone tell me what problems are bugging you with the current fglrx driver?
<Treenaks> - no composite
<Treenaks> - closed source
<Treenaks> need more?
<sharms> yeah I need to keep the scope to techical problems
<pitti> sharms: reportedly the edgy->feisty upgrade broke fglrx for a friend of mine; that sounded like dropping support for older models
<sharms> is there a bug report on it?
<ScottK-laptop> Mithrandir: I'm trying to undertstand/correct an FTBFS problem that it was suggested on #ubuntu-motu I needed to talk to you about.  I pastebinned the details here: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/18810/  
<Mithrandir> ScottK-laptop: libtest-harness-perl is probably waiting in NEW.
<Mithrandir> it'll be fixed whenever an archive admin processes it.
<ScottK-laptop> Mithrandir: Is there a way I can check that?  The binary successfully built last November?
<cjwatson> libtest-harness-perl |     2.64-1 | feisty/universe | source, all
<cjwatson> libtest-harness-perl |     2.64-1 | gutsy/universe | source, all
<cjwatson> ScottK-laptop: feels like an sbuild bug to me. Provides shouldn't be able to satisfy versioned dependencies, but that appears to be what's happening.
<ScottK-laptop> Mithrandir: For Feisty anyway the binary is in the archive, I can apt-get install it on my laptop, so I don't think it's a NEW problem.
<cjwatson> it's certainly nothing to do with NEW
<ScottK-laptop> cjwatson: OK.  Then what's the next step for me?
<cjwatson> ScottK-laptop: infinity's probably the right person to talk to
<ScottK-laptop> cjwatson: Thanks.
<ScottK-laptop> infinity: Ping.  ^^^ and http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/18810/
<jdong> JohnFlux: look upstream at ktorrent.org, I have made pbuildered unofficial packages for KTorrent 2.1.4
<jdong> JohnFlux: if it's really bugging you, use that package... turn off DHT... or wait for the fix....
<dholbach> gpocentek: will you take care of gnumeric and goffice merge/update?
<asac> cjwatson: any update on nspr/nss ?
<geser> ScottK-laptop: be patient, I also wait for a fix in sbuild
<geser> you might also want to send him an e-mail as he doesn't write often here in the past time
<pitti> seb128: yay bug 107484 - copy-package :)
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 107484 in control-center "Launch Music Player should be mapped to KEY_MEDIA (0xed in X)" [Low,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/107484
* seb128 hugs pitti
<seb128> rock on ;)
<iwj> So it turns out you can upload the same debian/changelog to both gutsy and unstable.  You just have to run dpkg-buildpackage twice and seddery the .changes (I didn't try dpkg-buildpackage -D).
<ScottK-laptop> geser: Patient I am.  Thanks.  I will e-mail him.  Maybe file a bug too.
<Hobbsee> iwj: i'm sure seddery isnt a verb :P
<iwj> Hobbsee: Um, well, I used ed so I could have said I edded the .changes but no-one who didn't know me would know what I meant :-).
<iwj> So I sedderied the changes; since I didn't use sed, I didn't sed them.
<iwj> Your idiolect may vary.
<jdong> sedderize is a verb....
<jdong> if one is going to verbify, it better be done right :D
* netjoined: irc.freenode.net -> brown.freenode.net
<cjwatson> asac: I'm not quite sure. I'm sure I saw it in the queue earlier ...
<cjwatson> Mithrandir: do you have any idea where nss and nspr went? I thought you were syncing them.
<azgtem> sorry for my problems
<azgtem> are all the recent boot/install (alternate) cds i386-incompatible?
<pitti> iwj: yay @ autopkgtest 0.8.2 :)
<iwj> pitti: :-)
<iwj> Sorry about the delay.
<pitti> no problem, I had your test packages
<iwj> Mmm.
<iwj> No significant difference there for you I think.
<iwj> Now I just need to plumb my freakazoided piuparts into cron.
<Nafallo> oh!
<azgtem> are all the recent boot/install (alternate) cds i386-incompatible?
<Nafallo> I just remembered. my ex-girlfriend installed 7.04 i386 yesterday. in fstab she had /dev/hda for cdrom
<Nafallo> and now my gutsy had /dev/hdc for cdrom...
<Nafallo> is this known?
<azgtem> Nafallo: what cpu?
<tritium> Nafallo: is what known?  that's a possible configuration
<zyga> tritium: isn't the move to sdx affecting the cdrom's?
<Nafallo> tritium: it was a clean, pure, new, installed system.. and the cdrom didn't have /dev/cdrom
<tritium> Nafallo: ah, I see what you're getting at
<tritium> zyga: I haven't seen any details on that
<Nafallo> tritium: that broke gnome-mount for instance :-)
<Nafallo> azgtem: model name      : AMD Sempron(tm) Processor 2800+
<Nafallo> azgtem: what THAT can have to do with anything... :-P
<Nafallo> should I go back and see if when I last had /dev/cdrom in my gutsy fstab? :-)
<Nafallo> (daily backups)
<azgtem> Nafallo: semprons 2800+ can't be 386
<Nafallo> azgtem: amd64 can run i386 code. that's not the problem.
<gpocentek> dholbach: goffice is ready, I4ll take care of gnumeric tomorrow
<dholbach> rock and roll
* dholbach hugs gpocentek
* dholbach hugs gpocentek some more
<azgtem> Nafallo: oh, so you were talking about your problem only, no referrence to mine, right?
<Nafallo> azgtem: right
<azgtem> are all the recent boot/install (alternate) cds i386-incompatible? i mean, are they supposed not to work on, say, k6-2?
<Nafallo> seems silverfairy (the gutsy computer) have had /dev/hdc all the time, so no issue there.
<azgtem> Nafallo: the new naming for hdds is sd* instead of hd*, iirc
<Nafallo> azgtem: I know
<Nafallo> azgtem: but cdroms are scd0
<azgtem> Nafallo: oh, didn't know thayt
<azgtem> thayt
<azgtem> that
<azgtem> :))
<Nafallo> azgtem: so we should use /dev/cdrom, which is a symlink that will always point right if we don't screw it up in weird ways :-)
<ssam> is there much chance of Bug #109204 being fixed in feisty? it makes gnumeric mostly unusable on powerpc. the patch is tiny, has been commit up stream, and there are a few positive test reports.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 109204 in goffice "Gnumeric strange colors (purple charts) on bigendian" [Undecided,Fix committed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/109204
<iwj> Hmm.  My testbed just failed to reboot properly with EBUSY from mounting the rootfs in initramfs.
<iwj> Just a normal hard disk partition.
<Alinux> hello all, for my "00:09.0 Network controller: Intersil Corporation Prism 2.5 Wavelan chipset (rev 01)" wireless card th solution described here dosen't work: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-source-2.6.20/+bug/63989/+viewstatus , maybe somoone knows howto fix ?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 63989 in linux-source-2.6.20 "Orinoco_pci affected by re-enabled prism2 drivers" [High,Confirmed]  
<Riddell> infinity, Mithrandir: could you give back kdeaddons and kdesdk
<azgtem> so, are all the recent boot/install (alternate) cds i386-incompatible? i mean, are they supposed not to work on, say, k6-2?
<cjwatson> azgtem: K6-2 isn't exactly i386 ... anyway, the -generic kernels are CONFIG_M586=y which IIRC should work on K6-2
<cjwatson> azgtem: failing that, there's http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/feisty/main/installer-i386/current/images/netboot/386/mini.iso whose kernel is CONFIG_M486=y
<cjwatson> azgtem: Debian-based systems haven't worked properly on *real* 386s for a while, due to changes upstream in the C++ standard library
<azgtem> cjwatson: then look, why can't i boot recent cds (either they be live or installation cds, i386, of course) on a k6-2 computer? as soon as i press enter at the "boot:" prompt (no matter what kernel options, like noapic, vga, acpi, etc., etc., etc.) my computer simply restarts!
<azgtem> cjwatson: and it looks like quite a low-level problem, since my computer restarts immediately in that moment, not after some attempt to load anything
<cjwatson> I'm just giving you the facts as I understand them; I'm afraid I cannot help further
<cjwatson> I assume you've filed a bug already?
<azgtem> cjwatson: good, thanks a lot anyway
<azgtem> cjwatson: no, not yet
<azgtem> cjwatson: i was still trying to figure it out myself
<jdong> cjwatson: can you do backport bug 111630?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 111630 in feisty-backports "backport KTorrent 2.1.4" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/111630
<jdong> for dapper, edgy, feisty.
<cjwatson> jdong: not at the moment, sorry, I have a horrific amount to do before UDS
<jdong> ah, mmmkay :)
<cjwatson> and 1.something days to do it in
<cjwatson> asac: ah, I see now, nss and nspr needed a little bit of --forcing as they overwrote Ubuntu changes from another source package
<asac> yes ... right xulrunner ... which will need redoing
<cjwatson> I'm putting them through now
<asac> perfect 
* asac constantly hitting reload on launchpad propsed nss source page
<seb128> asac: is firefox going to use xulrunner at some stage?
<asac> at some stage yes
<seb128> we get a bug again this week from an user who want to get epiphany built with it
<asac> yes right. i would vote to move xulrunner to main and build moz embedders against it
<seb128> well, that would duplicate your workload
<asac> i can push xulrunner update on debian side i guess
<seb128> you would have to fix bug on firefox and xulrunner
<seb128> and another issue is CD space
<asac> hmm
<seb128> to build yelp with xulrunner we would need to get it on the CD
<gxben> hile,  someone knows which package/scripts handles x.org settings autodetection (for liveCD for example) ?
<asac> ok, so unless i get firefox build against libxul we have to wait till ffox 3 i guess
<seb128> asac: right, I think there is no way around
<seb128> out of kicking firefox out of the CD
<seb128> and using epiphany as default browser ;)
<asac> hehe ... in fact making it build against libxul won't be a big problem ... the problem is to do this in a way that makes upstream happy as well ;)
<seb128> right
<asac> why isn't there a gnome theme with firefox icons ... then epiphany would at least look a bit like firefox :)
<seb128> ah ah
<gnomefreak> ubuntu made the local paper :)
<cjwatson_> asac: source accepted, binaries will take a bit
<sbalneav> Hola from Spain!
<sbalneav> Anyone happen to have ogra's cell #?
<troy_s> gnomefreak: Ubuntu made the BBC
<gnomefreak> i know :)
<troy_s> that's bonkers.
<mc44> it was even in the business section :)
* lamont kicks networkmanagler
<lamont> gaim
<lamont> libnm_glib_nm_state_cb: dbus returned an error.
<lamont>   (org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.ServiceUnknown) The name org.freedesktop.NetworkManager was not provided by any .service files
<lamont> so why is it that gaim doesn't Depend: network-manager?
<lamont> (which would be bad...)
<lamont> alternatively, is there a way to hook into network mangler so that I can fix things after it gets done breaking them?
<cjwatson> asac: is there some magic trick that mozilla hackers use to manage to work effectively with bugzilla.mozilla.org? it's always so incredibly slow any time I try it
<asac> cjwatson: maybe you should refine your search?
<asac> cjwatson: what kind of query do you run?
<cjwatson> asac: the front page
<asac> cjwatson: try advance search page
<asac> and only search for title
<cjwatson> ah, a little network configuration later and it is somewhat better
<cjwatson> never mind me :)
<asac> cjwatson: so you are doing bug triaging for mozillateam :) ?
<ubijtsa> evening
<lemsx1> ubijtsa: good afternoon
<lemsx1> ubijtsa: :-P
<cjwatson> asac: no :-), just a bit of research
<ubijtsa> lemsx1: I guess you be in the US then :)
<lemsx1> ubijtsa: indeed
* ubijtsa is well impressed with Feisty
<lemsx1> ubijtsa: i'm even more impressed seeing that Michael Dell uses Feisty on his personal laptop
<lemsx1> ubijtsa: lol
<lemsx1> ubijtsa: but, that's off topic ... 
<ubijtsa> lemsx1: lets just say that where I work that has caused some debate
<lemsx1> ubijtsa: haters
<ubijtsa> lemsx1: how do you mean?
<lemsx1> ubijtsa: no matter what people will always find controversy in everything (Dell's lying, he's not using that. Why not Fedora/Xandros/Any other) ... you get the idea
<ubijtsa> rite... 
<ubijtsa> still has a lot of people saying less than well thought through things..
<ubijtsa> serious question to the devs here, for Feisty+1, will the Xen patches that Red Hat has in RHEL5 be incorporated?
<lemsx1> ubijtsa: funny you mention that as i'm just working on Xen on Centos 5 (redhat5 variant)
<asac> cjwatson: if you need anything specicifc from bugzilla, let me know ;) ... i am now mostly gone
<keescook> lamont: you had mentioned to me a while back that newer bind9's had a better solution for the "allow-recursion { localnets; };" hack I added to ubuntu.  how should I change that for 9.4.1 ?
<ubijtsa> lemsx1: RHEL5's Xen 3.0.3 is very stable (what I can see, and I have run it since Beta1)
<cjwatson> asac: thanks
<lamont> keescook: uh... dunno... the default is now to do the right thing, rather than what you did in 9.3....
<lemsx1> ubijtsa: you can assume (safely) that the patches will be incorporated upstream and they will go to Ubuntu as well... but that's just my guess
<ubijtsa> lemsx1: I tried Xen with Eft, and that was not a pleasurable experience...
<lemsx1> ubijtsa: what's Eft ?
<ubijtsa> lemsx1: Ubuntu 6.10
<keescook> lamont: ah, so by default 9.4.1 isn't available to open recursion?  if that's true, I'll just do a direct sync
<cjwatson> ubijtsa: (normally "Edgy")
<ubijtsa> cjwatson: ah, I'll use that for future :)
<lemsx1> ubijtsa: ah, Edgy is a real name ... ;-) I have not dare using Xen on debian-based systems yet (in 1 year of using Xen)
<lemsx1> ubijtsa: have you use xen on Feisty yet?
<ubijtsa> lemsx1: what I have seen (I have still to raise a bug in Malone) is within 5 mins, Edgy will reboot the box
<lemsx1> ubijtsa: no pae on your CPU ?
<ubijtsa> lemsx1: I have the kernel installed, just have to update the dom-U
<ubijtsa> lemsx1: yes, it's a Duron, it has PAE
<lemsx1> ubijtsa: where did you get the binaries for xen? compiled it yourself?
<ubijtsa> lemsx1: no, straight out of the distro
<lemsx1> ubijtsa: universe? i didn't know they existed for Edgy
<ubijtsa> lemsx1: perhaps.. you saying that it's been moved in to main in Feisty?
* ubijtsa has to take a better look at this
<ubijtsa> no, still in universe
<lemsx1> ubijtsa: yeah, in universe
<lemsx1> ubijtsa: i didn't even see the Xen stuff during my short time with Edgy
<ubijtsa> might be better to await Xen 3.0.5 in Ubuntu..
<pitti> erk, auto-sync mails go to the normal gutsy-changes@ now?
<Mithrandir> pitti: I passed NOMAILS=-M (or NOMAIL=-M), so I thought not.
<Mithrandir> cjwatson: nss, nspr> ignored since they overwrote other binaries, I started doing a first pass, well, first and then I was going to look at the other new ones.
<cjwatson> Mithrandir: yep, it's ok, I did it
<cjwatson> pitti: only NEW
<cjwatson> I wasn't sure, couldn't remember how we'd done new synced source in the past
<pitti> oh, that's a lot :)
<cjwatson> I can use q -M if people would prefer it that way
<cjwatson> ?
<Mithrandir> I'm fine with autosynced NEW going to -changes.
<pitti> yeah, it's largely just an one-time flood
<mario_> hi codingmaster 
<codingmaster> hello :)
<pygi> are you tracking me or something? :P
<codingmaster> nope
<codingmaster> joining ubuntu-devel :p
<pygi> you join same second as I did :p
<codingmaster> ok :p
<pitti> hi codingmaster 
* pitti waves to pygi
<pygi> pitti! :)
<pygi> pitti, we'll have a working brasero in feisty now, yay :P
<cjwatson> binary NEW is going to be unbelievably horrific after this
<pygi> cjwatson, did libburn and libisofs went through NEW?
<cjwatson> not yet
<cjwatson> anything with 'ubuntu' in the version number we tend to review rather than just waving past
<pygi> ah, oki ^_^
<cjwatson> (which is not an argument for leaving 'ubuntu' out of the version number!)
<pygi> got it ^_^ Well, siretart and me checked it ... should be all fine ;)
<codingmaster> hey pitti :)
<cjwatson> I'm sure it is, we just haven't had a chance to do it yet
<pygi> pitti, you all good? :)
<Kmos> pitti is in the channel
<pitti> pygi: sure!
<pygi> pitti, glad to hear
<lamont> keescook: correct.  Which means that you now get a conffile change  question if anyone edited the file that changed in ubuntu with 9.3...
<lamont> that's why I stuck my fingers in my ears for debian and said "fixed in 9.4." :-)
<lamont> keescook: allow-recursion localhost; allow-cache-query localnets; iirc
<cjwatson> Mithrandir: please sync-blacklist linux-modules-di-mips-2.6 (you have it open, so I can't)
<Mithrandir> cjwatson: blacklisted
<cjwatson> thanks
<pygi> we're blacklisting more and more :P
<Mithrandir> pygi: the blacklist is still quite short.
<pygi> Mithrandir, probably, but it's growing ^_^
<cjwatson> pygi: in this case, it's just another specific example of a category that's been blacklisted since hoary
<pygi> got it ^_^
<tepsipakki> what is holding back MoM from working?
<bryce> tepsipakki: did you see DaD?  http://adrishost.homeip.net/DaD/merges/
<tepsipakki> bryce: yes, but that doesn't have main
<tepsipakki> ..not that there isn't enough to do in universe ;)
<Adri2000> tepsipakki: do you want it for main as well?
<tepsipakki> Adri2000: I guess it would be useful
<pitti> Adri2000: indeed it would; the main advantage of MoM from my perspective is the bookkeeping and TODO list
<Lutin> pitti: what's bookkeeping ?
<pitti> Lutin: trackign 'touched it last' uploader and what needs to be merged still
<Lutin> pitti: ok
<Adri2000> Lutin: the current code should work for main/restricted, but we will wait until we have moved to the new, dedicated server (in a few days)
<Adri2000> err
<Adri2000> pitti, tepsipakki: ^
<pygi> Adri2000, nice ^_^
<pitti> thanks Adri2000 
<tepsipakki> Adri2000: okay
<pygi> pitti, when do we get new REVU? :)
<pitti> pygi: erm, I'm not a REVU guy
<pygi> pitti, I know :P
<pygi> I'm just randomly bugging :)
<pygi> I thought it was worked on and discussed two cycles ago :(
<pygi> I don't forget things that easily you know =)
<pitti> Good night everyone!
<pygi> vrodic, pozdrav :)
<ajmitch> morning
<pygi> ajmitch, morning ^_^
<vrodic> pygi, pozdrav... ti si bio u medi sada?
<pygi> vrodic, nop :)
<vrodic> vrodic, kakvim developmentom se ti bavis?
<vrodic> boze, pygi 
<pygi> vrodic, english pls :P
<pygi> or pm :)
<vrodic> okay
<vrodic> pygi, so what kind of development do you do?
<pygi> I switched to pm now, ergh :P
<pygi> vrodic, depends who you ask :)
<vrodic> pygi, don't know.. among people present at the meeting there were only two or three (if you include me) were software developers
<pygi> vrodic, who was at the meeting anyway?
<pygi> Senko, Ante, etc?
<vrodic> pygi, ivoks, splivalo, ante nije bio
<pygi> ante = ivoks o.O
<vrodic> pygi, i'm semi drunk :)
<vrodic> pygi, senko nije bio
<pygi> so drunk that you can't auth so we can switch to pm, and not pollute the channel? :P
<vrodic> pygi, now now, it's been a while since i last used IRC.. i'll need to setup my router for identd
<pygi> why would you need to configure router for that o.O
<pygi> plus wth? Identd? How drunk are you?
<vrodic> it says No identd (auth) response
<vrodic> so i guess i'll need to open up a redirection from my router port 113 to my machine
<vrodic> pygi, i guess i'm pretty drunk :)
<pygi> nod
<Kano> hi, how to compile the linux-headers-2.6.22-2 package from gutsy git?
<Kano> debian/rules binary-debs flavours=generic
<Kano> does not create em
<root____1> .
<ion_> *Not* a good idea.
<poningru> anyone around who can give some info re: UDS?
<poningru> wondering if there will be gobby, voip, and irc like last year
#ubuntu-devel 2007-05-03
<mdke> cjwatson: https://help.ubuntu.com/7.04/advanced-topics/C/index.html
<cjwatson> mdke: neat, thanks
<mdke> np
<Kano> btw. when will fuse 2.6.5 hit ubuntu?
<cjwatson> Kano: I suspect it would help if it were packaged in Debian; then it would simply be on our merge queue
<mdke> when I click "Nominate for release" on an Ubuntu bug report, the next screen states "There is no release manager for Ubuntu."
<mdke> if I thought that were true, I'd be worried :) Can someone add the relevant people to the relevant place?
<Kano> cjwatson, fuse+ntfs-3g work both together and need to be always the latest versions
<cjwatson> Kano: I am not saying it is not necessary; I am saying what the most effective approach would be
<cjwatson> (we don't have a dedicated maintainer for fuse in Ubuntu)
<Kano> well i need it, and if you dont package it,then i do
<mdke> that's the spirit
<cjwatson> that's fine, you can contribute it in the usual way
<Kano> my way is to put it on my website ;)
<cjwatson> or you can duplicate work if you like, sure
<Kano> because then i dont have to discuss if it is needed or not
<cjwatson> you do not have to do so anyway
<mdke> Kano: have a look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/New for contributing new packages that you work on
<cjwatson> but if you are on #ubuntu-devel, it is expected that you discuss Ubuntu development
<Kano> cjwatson, of course i fixed already some packages which are in motu
<Kano> some dash problems
<cjwatson> much appreciated. I don't know why you're suddenly being hostile about this one, then
<Kano> the problem with fuse is that it is in main
<cjwatson> that is why the ubuntu-main-sponsors team exists
<Kano> and nobody wanted to update it for feisty
<Kano> so even if i build something upon feisty i need this extra
<cjwatson> there is no bug report explaining the problems
<TerminX> I know this channel isn't supposed to be support per se, but I have an interesting issue in Firefox you guys might want to know about
<TerminX> it crashes whenever I type "So," into any forum reply box
<TerminX> (in gutsy)
<cjwatson> TerminX: turn off spellchecking
<TerminX> ahh
<MindUs> Free phone calls all around the world ----->  http://callfree.point-serv.com/en/
<mdke> it's a conspiracy to stop people starting sentences with "So,"
<Kano> cjwatson, i told this channel about 2 or 3 mouth ago
<cjwatson> TerminX: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/firefox/+bug/111568
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 111568 in firefox "Gutsy Firefox crashes with spell checking enabled (dup-of: 107340)" [High,In progress]  
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 107340 in firefox "[GUTSY]  MASTER firefox crashed in spellchecker with undefined symbol: _ZN8Hunspell5spellEPKc [@ mozSpellChecker::GetCurrentDictionary]  [@ mozSpellI18NManagerConstructor] " [High,In progress]  
<Kano> what the problem is
<cjwatson> Kano: IRC is a lossy medium, and you cannot expect any kind of tracking whatsoever of problems reported only on IRC
<Kano> well i track error messages 
<TerminX> ha, I just saw the libmyspell.so symbol lookup error in my terminal after you linked that
<TerminX> d'oh
<Kano> perferred thru irc,because i can tell ppl to fix it in a way or another
<cjwatson> Kano: with all due respect, that may be how you work but it is not how everyone works
<MindUs> Free phone calls all around the world ----->  http://callfree.point-serv.com/en/
* mode/#ubuntu-devel [+o cjwatson]  by ChanServ
* mode/#ubuntu-devel [+b MindUs!*@IGLD-83-130-167-86.inter.net.il]  by cjwatson
* mode/#ubuntu-devel [-o cjwatson]  by cjwatson
<cjwatson> Kano: nor is it how we ask people to work with us
<Kano> are you here Mithrandir ?
<azgtem> cjwatson: not even the 386 net boot cd that you suggested works on my k6-2 computer :((
<cjwatson> azgtem: then I doubt the issue is what processor it was compiled for - you'll need to file a bug
<cjwatson> I suppose it could be that gfxboot breaks somehow on k6-2 - try booting in expert mode from the alternate install CD (to avoid 'quiet' on the kernel command line) and see if there are any kernel log messages at all?
<cjwatson> if not, it could be the bootloader breaking
<azgtem> cjwatson: anyway, i tested it with knoppix 5.1 -- it does the same, so it is a debian problem. BUT, i tested it with knoppix 4.0 and it works! so the bug is some debian regression between the release dates of knoppix 4 and knoppix 5... if this has any relevance
<cjwatson> try also holding down shift at boot time to suppress the fancy boot menu
<cjwatson> note that neither our fancy boot menu nor our kernel is common with Debian; at that point, the only thing definitely common with Debian is syslinux
<azgtem> cjwatson: oh, didn't know about the shift trick
<azgtem> cjwatson: anyway, knoppix does have some similar boot menu, so it seems i need to test debian itself, after all, before i conclude it's a debian problem
<azgtem> cjwatson: ok then, is there any net boot cd equivalent of the one you gave me that i could use to install ubuntu?
<cjwatson> azgtem: given that I have no idea what the problem is, I cannot answer that question
<cjwatson> we do not have a magic CD that fixes all unknown bugs, if that's what you mean ;-)
<azgtem> cjwatson: no, i was only asking about a debian one
<cjwatson> oh, right
<cjwatson> azgtem: http://www.debian.org/releases/etch/debian-installer/
<azgtem> i want to give debian a try and then to somehow install ubuntu
<azgtem> cjwatson: cool, thanks a lot
<cjwatson> holding down shift should bypass most of the bootloader code that differs between Debian and Ubuntu
<cjwatson> so that is still worth a try too
<cjwatson> if that fixes it, please file a bug on gfxboot
<jdong> cjwatson: wait, what does shift do?
<cjwatson> jdong: skips gfxboot
<jdong> disable gfxboot?
<jdong> REALLY?
<jdong> that would've helped me a lot with kvm!
<cjwatson> jdong: see /usr/share/doc/syslinux/README.gfxboot
<cjwatson> actually that says that it lets you interactively disable certain bits, which is a lie, but that's not important
<jdong> cool
<jdong> then I'll kvm a bit again
<jdong> confirmed, it works
<jdong> yay, kvm boots now
<azgtem> jdong: you don't even see the ubuntu logo??
<jdong> although WOW are kvm graphics impressingly slow
<jdong> azgtem: before I saw a nice kvm stackdump
<jdong> becase intel-vt doesn't do the realmode calls for gfxboot's screen
<azgtem> jdong: oh, i thought you were testing that on a normal computer boot
<jdong> nope; kvm
<azgtem> right
<azgtem> cjwatson: even when i keep shift pressed, i still see the nice orange ubuntu logo
<jdong> yes
<azgtem> or pink
<jdong> that's the old syslinux style logo
<cjwatson> what jdong said
<jdong> not the gfxboot one that puts the video in weird modes :D
<azgtem> oh, right
<azgtem> cjwatson, jdong: but shouldn't fb=off (or something like that) solve this problem anyway?
<azgtem> something like that = i am not sure about the syntax
<cjwatson> azgtem: that's much later
<jdong> Colin is the expert past this point. I have no experience with d-i internals
<cjwatson> fb=false translates to debian-installer/framebuffer=false which tells the installer not to use a framebuffer; this does not help if the kernel isn't coming up
<cjwatson> and it's unrelated to gfxboot
<`23meg> cjwatson, would it be possible/feasible to create a barebones X environment to let Ubiquity run on systems with low memory?
<cjwatson> `23meg: it's been discussed, but I haven't had time to actually do it
<`23meg> so it looks doable; good to know
<azgtem> cjwatson: it seems shift doesn't help on my box, so could you please tell me what level the error is, so that i may search for deeper answers myself? i also mention, if of any help at all, that most of the times i can see some ten quickly disappearing "progress bar" dots before the computer reboots, but at least once i saw more than thirty... if you find my description funny then you just know how desperate i am :)
<cjwatson> azgtem: I think you need help from a kernel developer at this point, TBH
<azgtem> cjwatson: good to know
<azgtem> cjwatson: thank you again
<cjwatson> sorry I can't help more
* jdong grins
<jdong> a friend sent me his travel itinerary to Hawaii complete with 3 PDF's of boarding passes, while he sent his family a build log.....
<azgtem> cjwatson: the fact that i know where to look further already means enough help to me, to be honest, i didn't even know the kernel could be responsible for this
<jdong> azgtem: unexpected reboots typically are the kernel's fault at some point :)
<jdong> it's also a convenient way of saying "not my fault" :D
<azgtem> heh
<azgtem> true
<azgtem> cjwatson: and one last question: from your experience, the level you think this problem is -- is it the same level boot options like "noapic" etc. apply? i mean, is it still possible, in principle, that some magical boot option solve the problem?
<mjg59> Well, it's either syslinux or the kernel
<mjg59> If it's the kernel, it's happening in early setup code where any failure is quite likely to result in the machine rebooting
<mjg59> Diagnosing is likely to be immensely painful
<mjg59> Does the current Fedora test release have the same problem?
<azgtem> cjwatson: oh, btw, i forgot to mention: after i installed ubuntu on it (by using another machine and copying the contents of the hdd), it could boot into ubuntu, so it is only a cd live/alternate problem
<cjwatson> azgtem: that does tend to suggest syslinux
<cjwatson> doesn't make it a whole lot easier, mind
<azgtem> cjwatson: is it possible to use grub on /dev/hda and force it to boot the cdrom? or what methods do multidistro cds use?
<jdong> azgtem: only if grub was compiled with cdrom support or patches or whatnot
<jdong> which default Ubuntu GRUB is not
<azgtem> jdong: but in that case it does??
<jdong> azgtem: the bootable CD's that use GRUB do support CD's. Ubuntu does not use GRUB to boot its CD's.
<azgtem> jdong: btw, *why* doesn't ubuntu use grub?
<mjg59> Traditionally, it's been more fragile than iso/syslinux
<jdong> azgtem: apparently more prone to failure
<jdong> heh mjg59  beat me
<mjg59> Also less scriptable, as far as I can remember
<azgtem> jdong, mjg59: oh, right, i experienced that myself. actually even lilo is much more reliable, imo
<jdong> but lilo is too static :D
<jdong> it apparently has some other limitations too....
<azgtem> i hate it that grub has so many wonderful features and yet is less dependable
<azgtem> especially considering that reliability is very important for a boot loader
<fabbione> monring
<poningru> bwhahahahahha
<poningru> http://lolgeeks.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/05/125060350_bc84204cd9.jpg
<ajmitch> morning fabbione 
<Nafallo> morning fabbione :-)
<fabbione> YAY for standalone nss and nspr!
<Nafallo> oh. nice! :-)
<ubijtsa> poningru: *lol*
<Burgundavia> fabbione: hmm?
<dholbach> good morning
<ubijtsa> moin alles
<fabbione> Burgundavia: libnss and libnspr were in FF sources but they are used by different packages
<fabbione> Burgundavia: with the split, i don't need to ship FF sources on server-source.iso
<Burgundavia> ah, right
<Burgundavia> nspr is required for fds as well
<Nafallo> fds?
<Burgundavia> fedora directory servcer
<Nafallo> ah
<fabbione> Burgundavia: it's much easier than that... RHEL is moving away from openssl for all its packages
<fabbione> Burgundavia: and they either switch to nss/nspr for strong encryption or to gnutls for weak
<ubijtsa> fabbione: where have you heard this?
<fabbione> ubijtsa: just talking with some of our developers
<ubijtsa> fabbione: 'our' as in Ubuntu or.. ?
<fabbione> s/our/their
<fabbione> i am still drinking my first cup of coffee
* ubijtsa will have to make some internal inquiries..
<ubijtsa> fabbione: thank's for the heads up, first I have heard of it..
<fabbione> ubijtsa: it's not really a secret.. openssl was not certified by the US gov authorities till a few weeks ago
<fabbione> and to sell support to US Gov you need to have conformant ssl/crypto libs/apps
<Nafallo> fabbione: does that mean firefox-dev build-dep that was libxul-dev in debian should be something else now? :-)
<ubijtsa> fabbione: yes, but it would be nice if the support organisation was aware of such a change. ;-)
<ubijtsa> s/was aware/was made aware/
<fabbione> ubijtsa: well i was only told that.. i have no clue how that's communicated internally to RH....
<ubijtsa> fabbione: that's what I'll find out today
<fabbione> ubijtsa: neither i can be 100% certain how official is that
<ubijtsa> fabbione: if it's going in to Fedora, it'll make its way into RHEL pretty much.
<fabbione> ubijtsa: as i said, i was told this.. not how the process is taking place
<fabbione> ubijtsa: might as well be a RH fork of packages only that doesn't influence Fedora
<fabbione> i really don't know more than what i told you already
<ubijtsa> fabbione: that is less likely
<ubijtsa> fabbione: thank you for letting me know though :)
<fabbione> np
<dholbach> can we sync from Debian NEW?
<cjwatson> dholbach: in theory it could probably be arranged, but it would require me to abuse privileges and is not a good idea anyway
<dholbach> cjwatson: ok, I'm just being impatient :)
<dholbach> nevermind :-)
<pitti> Good morning
<pitti> merges.ubuntu.com!!
<tepsipakki> whee!
<ajmitch> it's back & better than ever?
<tepsipakki> umm, no :)
<ajmitch> tepsipakki: well up-to-date is better than ever :)
<ajmitch> I see that the main pages listing merges aren't updated yet
<tepsipakki> correct :)
<tepsipakki> but something is happening
<stittel> Where is development of Ubuntu taking place? I mean the packages commited to the apt-repositories seem to be more or less finished and ready to use, but there must be some place where things are commited and discussed before the package is finished?
<stittel> Most probably this happens in a revision control system like CVS or Subversion. If so, what is it's address?
<mdke> stittel: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment is a good overview of the processes
<stittel> I am thinking about getting involved as a package maintainer at same point but I'd really like to have a closer look at the development process.
<stittel> Thanks.
* dholbach hugs gpocentek
* gpocentek hugs dholbach back
<pitti> Riddell: any reason why kdebase still depends on pmount?
<pitti> Riddell: (and kubuntu-desktop)
<stittel> Doesn't KDE use pmount/pumount for mounting removable media like USB sticks?
<stittel> Just a thought, I am not a developer. :)
<pitti> stittel: I thought it would have switched to using hal long ago
<pitti> stittel: in fact, it used hal even earlier than Ubuntu's Gnome AFAIR
<pitti> and we just made hal use pmount as a backend in dapper
<stittel> What happens if you move the pmount binary and attach an USB stick?
<stittel> This should give us some clearity.
<pitti> stittel: well, that's why I asked Jonathan, I don't have a KDE here ATM
<stittel> Wait a sec.
<pitti> I would just really like to move it to universe, since I don't have  much motivation to develop it any more
<stittel> Do you want me to move pmount-hal, too?
<pitti> stittel: oh, just try sudo dpkg -P --force-depends pmount
<pitti> stittel: pmount-hal will just fail without pmount, so it doesn't matter much
<cjwatson> stittel: I've added a practical note on revision control to UbuntuDevelopment
<cjwatson> (under "Revision control (Bazaar)")
<stittel> cjwatson: Thanks.
<stittel> pitti: USB sticks works fine with KDE without pmount installed. Everything like usual.
<pitti> stittel: right, that's what I guessed; just a forgotten dependency
<pitti> stittel: thanks for testing!
<stittel> BTW: Why is "Storage Media" in the KDE System Menu pointing to "/media" and not to the "media:/" KIO slave?
<stittel> "/media" is rather useless for examle to remount and unmounted USB stick.
<stittel> s/and/an/
<ssam> is there much chance of Bug #109204 being fixed in feisty? it makes gnumeric mostly unusable on powerpc. the patch is tiny, has been commit up stream, and there are a few positive test reports.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 109204 in goffice "Gnumeric strange colors (purple charts) on bigendian" [Undecided,Fix committed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/109204
<shawarma>  /win 2
<shawarma> doh
<asac> Mithrandir: can you please give back nss?
<Mithrandir> asac: it's depwait
<asac> on what?
<Mithrandir> so it'll be done once libnspr4-dev
<Mithrandir> which is probably in NEW
<asac> libnspr4-dev should b e there
<asac> ah
<asac> ok
<Mithrandir> s/so it'll be done once//
<Mithrandir> once that hits the archive, it'll be retried automatically
<asac> Mithrandir: i see libnspr4-dev in gutsy /pool
<asac> ... and can install it ;)
<asac> ah ... it ended up in universe
<asac> hmm
<zyga> morning
<asac> cjwatson: didn't you direct nss/nspr to main?
<cjwatson> asac: I only processed the source package; somebody else must have done the binaries
<Lure> stittel: this was done as part of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KubuntuKDEMedia
<cjwatson> asac: and I did set the source package components to main
<Lure> stittel: if you are missing some feature, ping Riddell or Sime in #kubuntu-devel
<Mithrandir> somebody probably just blatted it through and didn't pay enough attention.  Easy enough to fix.
<cjwatson> asac: anyhow, I've moved the nspr binaries to main, which should fix the dep-wait problem after the next publisher run
<cjwatson> they'll have dep-waited due to the ogre model (the archive has layers; main can't build-dep on universe)
<asac> cjwatson: yes that makes sense
<ajmitch> cjwatson: I presume we have the same stance as debian on gpl & openssl?
<cjwatson> ajmitch: yes
<Mithrandir> that's hardly a stance, it's just how the licence is.
<ajmitch> ok, thanks
<ajmitch> the lack of a decent gnutls patch for openldap 2.3 stops mit kerberos having an ldap kdb backend
<ajmitch> from what I found, the ssl linking issue was the main reason for not having libldap2-dev built from openldap2.3
<Riddell> pitti: I don't think it does need to depend on pmount any more, I'll check to confirm
<pitti> Riddell: stittel already confirmed
<pitti> Riddell: that would be nice; the same dependency is in Debian as well, btw
<seb128> bryce: when you file a sync request please describe the ubuntu changes and why they can be dropped
<gnomefreak> pitti: are you around for a quick question?
<pitti> gnomefreak: please don't ask to ask, just ask
<gnomefreak> pitti: in /etc/default/apport i have enable=1 but i never get the crash dialog
<gnomefreak> is that a bug or just not fully worked out yet?
<pitti> gnomefreak: it controls a different thing
<gnomefreak> oh
<pitti> gconftool-2 -s --type boolean /apps/update-notifier/show_apport_crashes true
<gnomefreak> ok ty
<pitti> I think for gutsy I'll enable it soon again
<pitti> once the initial merge rush is done
<gnomefreak> cool :)
<pitti> Riddell: do you think that we need to discuss http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/uds-sevilla/kubuntu-restricted-manager.html?
<pitti> Riddell: AFAICS there's little to discuss, it's a SMOP
<Riddell> pitti: SMOP?
<pitti> simple matter of programming
<Mithrandir> simple matter of programming
* pitti ^5s Mithrandir 
<Mithrandir> oh, so much for paying attention. :-P
<pitti> Riddell: the backend is already UI agnostic, we just need to pull out the Ui independent stuff from the current frontend and cobble a KDE frontend
<pitti> Riddell: I see little value of wasting a pre-scheduled BoF on it TBH
<Riddell> pitti: I seem to remember a while ago you talking about having to make it frontend independent
<Riddell> pitti: but if that's not an issue then it doesn't need a full session
<pitti> Riddell: well, of course there need to be some GTK/Qt specific bits, such as .glade vs. .ui and so on
<pitti> Riddell: but the workflow can be in an abstract base class
<pitti> similar to apport-{qt,gtk}
<Riddell> pitti: so we probably don't need that session, but I'd still like to flesh out the spec and have it checked by you
<pitti> right, of course
<stittel> Lure: Thanks, I will do that.
<cjwatson> 677 packages in NEW, 677 packages; take one down, process it, 725 packages in NEW
<shawarma> *G*
<ajmitch> cjwatson: long day then? :)
<Nafallo> cjwatson: ouch
<asac> cjwatson: ok, can you move nss binaries to main as well now?
<tepsipakki> asac: I tried to change the default homepage by editing /etc/firefox/pref/firefox.js, but it only shows a blank page no matter what (this on Feisty). Ideas?
<asac> yes
<tepsipakki> same on dapper, too
<asac> you have to change alternative
<asac> not pref
<cjwatson> asac: done for next publisher run
<asac> tepsipakki: /etc/alternatives/firefox-homepage
<asac> cjwatson: thanks
<tepsipakki> asac: but the same holds for other settings
<asac> which?
<asac> e.g. do you see the settings changed in about:config ?
<tepsipakki> that I'd like to override.. as it's said in the firefox.js, that file (or files in that directory) can be used to override settings in /usr/share/firefox/defaults/pref
<tepsipakki> hm, I'll try other settings first :P
<asac> yes please do
<Mithrandir> seb128: slab (the source package) is called gnome-main-menu in Debian; ok to sync with override or do you want to upload a merge?
<seb128> Mithrandir: I'll upload a merge, there is some changes to do like making it use gnome-app-install
<Mithrandir> seb128: ok, thanks.
<seb128> no problem
<tepsipakki> asac: nope, no setting is overridden by /e/f/p/firefox.js
<tepsipakki> oh wait
<tepsipakki> maybe the parser is buggy
<tepsipakki> yep, if there is an error somewhere, it fails to apply the rest
<asac> so does it work or not?
<tepsipakki> it works, if the config has no errors ;)
<asac> hopefully the default config has no errors, does it?
<tepsipakki> no, that seems to be fine, but our site-wide settings were busted
<tepsipakki> used to work with mozilla, no-one had touched it for three years...
<tepsipakki> yay for maintenance
<asac> oh ... so mozilla was more robust about syntax errors? or what kind of errors did you have in your config?
<tepsipakki> all kinds of.. I need to double check that
<siretart> cjwatson: is there any Forum or Workshop about some 'unattended-install infrastructure'? Mark mentioned it on ubuntu-devel-announce, but I cannot find it on http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/uds-sevilla/track-installer.html
<siretart> or does the 'automated installation' workshop cover that?
* ajmitch should probably see about getting some network auth stuff on the installer track if it's suitable
<TheMuso> If someone gave back ardour, it still FTBFS on the same weird issue. Only i386 built so far, but same problem.
* TheMuso goes to check again with an updated pbuilder.
<Tonio_> #ubuntu-fr-classroom
<Tonio_> oops
<Tonio_> sorry for this :)
<Tonio_> is there a common/known way to "divert" a debconf generated file, so that not any other package can overwrite it ?
<Treenaks> Packages should not overwrite manually edited files without asking.. even IF they use debconf, afaik
<Tonio_> Treenaks: yes but in automatic deploiement environment
<Tonio_> Treenaks: I cannot take the risk to always answer "yes" or "no"
<Tonio_> Treenaks: that's why I'm searching for a dpkg-divert equivalent
<Treenaks> Always answering 'no' means changed config files will remain in their changed state
<Tonio_> hum...
<Tonio_> well that doesn't exactly feet my needs btw, but if that's the only solution.... :)
<Mithrandir> Tonio_: chattr +i on the file?
<Tonio_> Mithrandir: ouch ;)
<Tonio_> Mithrandir: well that'll work ;)
<Tonio_> Mithrandir: well waiting for debconf to handle that (sounds like in project) that's not a bad option, thanks :)
<TheMuso> hmm. Ok pbuilder + uploaded ardour package still don't choak.
<Mithrandir> Tonio_: except debconf doesn't do anything about configuration files, so it's the wrong place to apply any kind of fix.
<Tonio_> Mithrandir: I know, well I don't know what'll be fixed, but I read on the debian wiki there was kind of a project to make it possible to divert debconf generated files
<Tonio_> I don't know much more on that point, except I would love it was already implemented since I need this :)
<ivoks> Tonio_: ;) hi
<Tonio_> hey ivoks :)
<jsgotangco> hey jono
<ajmitch> hello jono, jsgotangco 
<jono> hey
<jsgotangco> hey ajmitch
<jsgotangco> ajmitch: err are you somewhere that is not around the southern hemisphere?
<ajmitch> jsgotangco: I am still deep in the south
<bhale> hi jsgotangco, ajmitch 
<jsgotangco> hey bhale hows it going there
<bhale> good thanks
<ajmitch> hi bhale 
<ajmitch> jsgotangco: don't worry, I'll leave soon
<jsgotangco> yeah its a very long swim for sure
<ajmitch> hopefully I won't have to swim
<ajmitch> time for me to sleep anyway
<ajmitch> night
<siretart> ajmitch: have a good flight!
<Mithrandir> the merge-o-matic should be back in business now.
<StevenK> YAY!
<Mithrandir> I'll send an announcement to u-d-a soonish
* StevenK notes he should go to bed, not start work on another merge.
<StevenK> Mithrandir: How often will MoM update?
<Mithrandir> StevenK: I need to confirm with Scott that everything is fine, but once he's ok with it, I'll have it run as often as it used to (which I believe is every two hours or so)
* StevenK nods.
<jdong> seb128: WRT backports bug 76382, the version verified is 0.15-0ubuntu2, but it also needs that trivial debdiff I posted. The lowered python b-d has been verified with bzr developers.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 76382 in edgy-backports "Backport bzr 0.13-0ubuntu1 from Feisty to Edgy" [Undecided,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/76382
<jdong> seb128: in addition, please backport bug 111630 for Dapper and Edgy too, thanks!
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 111630 in edgy-backports "backport KTorrent 2.1.4" [Undecided,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/111630
<seb128> jdong: I don't know how to source change a backport
<jdong> seb128: I was told it's done like a normal dput upload by a core-dev and ends up in backports source NEW
<seb128> so a normal upload with edgy-backports target?
<seb128> Mithrandir: ^
<pitti> seb128: that'll work, but we want to avoid it at all costs
<jdong> in this case it's a trivial build-dep change that doesn't have any negative impacts, IMO
<pitti> jdong: can't we do it as alternative build dep in gutsy and backport then?
<jdong> pitti: that would also work, but I was told before not to request development uploads to fix backports problems.....
<jdong> I don't mind which way it's done :)
<jdong> gutsy has 0.16~rc2 though....
<pitti> jdong: if we have to do an upload anyway, it seems easier to me to do it once for gutsy and then keep backportability instead of repeatedly doing it for backports
<jdong> pitti: ok, that's a good plan for future packages, but in this case gutsy has already progressed to a development release of bzr... :(
<pitti> jdong: ah, I see
<pitti> in this case it's justified, I guess
<jdong> pitti: so do alternate build-deps always work?
<seb128> jdong: are you sure you want the gusty ktorrent backported to dapper? ;)
<seb128> that seems to be quite some change
<pitti> jdong: as long as the first one doesn't exist (as opposed to doing the wrong thing), yes
<jdong> seb128: yep, I have tested it, and it works fine. the Dapper backports users welcome the new feature additions
<seb128> I don't like doing changes to dapper but it's your call ;)
<jdong> seb128: hehe fortunately only I have to deal with supporting -backports :D
<seb128> ktorrent backports done
<jdong> pitti: would it be feasible that when developers upload a tightened build-dep to also leave in an alternate, for non-EOL Ubuntu releases?
<jdong> thanks seb128!
<pitti> jdong: certainly feasible, but most often we forget about it
<jdong> pitti: yeah, that's understandable. It's hard for me to figure out when a b-d is serious, and when it's just to force a build against a newer library for a gutsy-specific reason...
<jdong> a lot of the times the changelog is helpful
<jdong> but other times it's not :D
<pitti> jdong: it eases transitions
<pitti> jdong: you can upload all bits of a transition at once, and the buildds will DRTR with 'depwait'
<jdong> right
<jdong> but a lot of times those tightened build-dep are only meaningful for the development release during that transition period
<pitti> right
<jdong> it's just I can't help but think there must be a more sensible way of doing than me requesting transitioning b-d's to be removed or alts be added in; there must be a better way of doing it that doesn't inconvenience everyone involved...
<wwoods> pitti: ping - got some apport questions and some code you might be interested in
<asac> someone has a minute to NEW thunderbird 2.0? pitti?
<pitti> wwoods: pong
<pitti> asac: oh, why source new? just a source package rename from m-t?
<asac> transition
<asac> name
<wwoods> pitti: when you've got a few minutes, I've got an rpm implementation and some code to read PID/signal out of elfcore files
<cjwatson> siretart: ubiquity-automation covers that
<wwoods> the latter, of course, will require some patches to apport, so I'm wondering how you want those made (bzr repo magic? patches against tarball?)
<pitti> wwoods: oh, cool; did you develop against recent bzr head? I recently had to extend the packaging interface a bit
<wwoods> pitti: I didn't, actually. I was just checking that out
<pitti> wwoods: bzr branch would be best of course, for mutual merging
<wwoods> I'll do that and come back with some patches against bzr head then
<bddebian> Heya
<pitti> wwoods: great!
<asac> pitti: sorry got a phone call ... its transition of source package as well as bin package names (e.g. with transitional packages)
<pitti> wwoods: I'll be off for a bit and then be back online, in an hour or so
<pitti> asac: alright, so this will need binary-NEW again after it built; source accepted
<asac> further i dropped dom-inspector which is constantly broken :)
<wwoods> pitti: cool, I've got a Fedora QA meeting in a bit so I'll be back around later today
<pitti> wwoods: TTYL then, looking forward to it :)
<asac> pitti: can i upload locale packages now as well ... or will this cause mor bugging around - so better wait till tbird is up?
<pitti> asac: I guess it doesn't matter much in which direction they break :)
<pitti> asac: (old locales with new tbird or new locales with old tbird)
<pitti> and it's transient anyway
<asac> hehe ... i mean not for the user, but for the archive administration :)
<asac> but nevermind :)
<pitti> asac: doesn't matter much AFAICS
* pitti takes a break, bbl
<asac> pitti: in 15 minutes :)
<pitti> asac: in 15 mins is what?
<asac> distro meeting?
<asac> or has it been cancelled?
<asac> pitti: ^^
<pitti> asac: noone announced it yet, and we'll see each other on Sunday anyway
<asac> yeah ;)
<fabbione> distro team meeting is NOW
<iwj> Are you sure ?
<iwj> Thu May  3 15:04:50 UTC 2007
<seb128> iwj: and meeting is a 15utc
<seb128> at
<fabbione> iwj: yes
<wwoods> stupid question: are .deb files GPG signed?
<shawarma> wwoods: Not individually, no.
<wwoods> really? huh
<shawarma> wwoods: our source packages are signed, and so is the Release file which provides basic authentication of the source of the packages.
<shawarma> wwoods: So you trust the repository rather than each package.
<cjwatson> there's an unbroken chain of signatures of hashes that you can use to verify the authenticity of each .deb
<cjwatson> (to put what shawarma said another way)
<cbx33> hey guys in feisty, anyone know who deals with libnotify?
<cbx33> or anyone know about the set_icon_from_pixbuf?
<cbx33> "This will only work when libnotify is compiled against D-BUS 0.60 or higher."
<cbx33> i thought we were hight dbus than that now?
<cbx33> hight = higher
<cbx33> however it still refuses to set the icon from the pixbuf
<wwoods> shawarma: okay, hm. so the Release file is part of the repo, and it's got package hashes?
<wwoods> (please forgive my amazingly poor grasp of apt repos. heh)
<mvo> cbx33: look at the update-notifier source code, it works there
<shawarma> wwoods: It's got hashes of the Packages files.
<shawarma> wwoods: which in turn has hashes of the individual packages.
<cbx33> mvo hmmm
<cbx33> that's what I thought
<cbx33> that's written in python isn't it?
<wwoods> shawarma: ah, okay. I think I get it.
<mvo> cbx33: oh, you talk about the python-bindings, no u-n is written in C (for memory effiecency reasons)
<wwoods> so there's nothing intrinsic about an installed package that tells you whether or not that package came from an 'official' repo.
<shawarma> wwoods: In short: If you get packages from the repository (and trust gnupg and the ubuntu folks) you can trust the packages.
<cbx33> ahhh
<shawarma> wwoods: If you get them individually from elsewhere, you shouldn't trust them.
<cbx33> so it could be the python binding don't work yet?
<cbx33> that's a kick in the pants
<shawarma> wwoods: Oh, sure there is.
<wwoods> (where "official" means "from a trusted repo", I suppose)
<shawarma> wwoods: Gimme a sec.
<mvo> cbx33: it could be that the python binding do have a bug, yes. aren't there tests in the python bindings package for this?
<cbx33> not sure
<cbx33> but it looks like a bug cos the c code does exactly what I would do
<cbx33> I'll file a bug later
<cbx33> ;)
<wwoods> basically I'm trying to figure out why apport just checks to see if the string 'Ubuntu' is in the origins
<cbx33> thanks mvo
<wwoods> instead of checking, like, keys or hashes or something
<pitti> wwoods: oh, does it?
<pitti> wwoods: it should check lsb_release
<wwoods> pitti: yeah, it does
<pitti> so it does, jsut checked
<wwoods> but still, that's just a string match against a package tag - anyone could lie and say their package is from the 'Fedora' distribution
<pitti> wwoods: in Ubuntu that Origin: tag is taken from python-apt which in turn takes it from the Release files on the archive
<pitti> wwoods: so it's reasonably reliable
<pitti> wwoods: also, it's not meant to be foolproof
<pitti> wwoods: the use case was that we ship some stuff in dapper-commercial, for example opera
<pitti> wwoods: and when that crashed, users got a 404 since opera is not a product in LP
<pitti> since it's not an actual Ubuntu package
<wwoods> pitti: gotcha. Yeah, we generally use the GPG signatures to determine whether a package is genuine or not
<wwoods> since our packages will be signed with one of our keys
<pitti> wwoods: I'm fine with making that interface more abstract
<pitti> wwoods: get_origins(self, package) -> is_distro_package(self, package)
<wwoods> yeah, that'd work nicely.. dunno if you use get_origins elsewhere though
<pitti> wwoods: no, I don't
<pitti> wwoods: I just added that function a few days ago to clean up after some quick hacks I had to do for the feisty release
<cprov> pitti: do you know how to define a fqdn with PORT in dput config ?
<wwoods> is_distro_package would probably be a good way to abstract that
<pitti> cprov: hm, no; just appending ':port' to the host doesn't work?
<cprov> pitti: as in "foobar:2121" ? no, it doesn't work.
<pitti> wwoods: added to TODO
<pitti> wwoods: can we talk in ~ 1 hour? I need to grab some food
<wwoods> pitti: sure
<thekorn> cbx33: set_icon_from_pixbuf is working for me in feisty
<cbx33> thekorn, in python?
<cbx33> if so, got some example code?
<thekorn> cbx33: yes, wait a second
<cbx33> thanky ou
<thekorn> cbx33: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/18974/
<thekorn> cbx33: you don't need that win = ...
<cbx33> thekorn you rock
<cbx33> my problem was in the docs, it looks like the icon parameter for the initialisation was required
<cbx33> i thought i could overwrite it later with set icon from file
<cbx33> thanks so much
<cbx33> VCSFrenzy gets custom icons ;)
<thekorn> cbx33: VCSFrenzy rocks!
<popey> you cbx33 
<popey> er
<popey> -u
<cbx33> thekorn, it rocks even more now ;)
<cbx33> hi popey 
<cbx33> hang on lemme pm you
<vciaglia> hi
<cbx33> whoops kill my x server
<kwah> How one can change mount options for automounted devices like flash-cards?
<jdong> lol
<jdong> kwah: /etc/hal/fdi/policy/ IIRC
<pitti> wwoods: I'm back for a bit
<pitti> wwoods: I committed that change and pushed, should be on LP in a few minutes
<wwoods> pitti: awesome! thanks. I just finished up that meeting and I need to grab some lunch but I'll be back in a bit
<pitti> wwoods: hm, I need to leave now, sorry
<pitti> wwoods: can you mail me about remaining questions and issues?
<wwoods> pitti: will do
<wwoods> doh
* iwj realises it would be a good idea to print out the UDS hotel details.
<Treenaks> iwj: hmm.. good idea
<xxxxx1> hi all.
<xxxxx1> i've built a custom kernel
<xxxxx1> can i replace linux-libc-dev ?
<ajmitch> morning all
<mjunx> hey guys, I've got a suggestion/question
<mjunx> would it be feasible if all the packages in ubuntu were maintained as bzr branches so that other people can easily submit branches on launchpad for fixes?
<mjunx> one particular situation I'm thinking of is an easier way for people to write documentation or modify it from the base translation
<ash211_> mjunx: sounds like https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NoMoreSourcePackages
<pygi> hi folks
<mjunx> ash211, that sounds like a GREAT idea! I love it
<ash211> subscribe to the spec and propose it to the coming UDS then
<mjunx> hmm, I'm not an official developer here or anything...
<ash211> me neither, I've just heard that proposal thrown around before
<mjunx> this developer summit you speak of, is it a real life meeting? if so, where does it take place? I'm a college student with like no job and stuff
<geser> yes, it's an offline meeting :), try Seville, Spain as location
<mjunx> hmm, quite a bit far from chicago :/
<ajmitch> yes, quite a way from NZ too
<ajmitch> hi doko 
<doko> ajmitch: good morning
<JohnFlux> mjunx: but wouldn't it be better to have the documentation etc pushed upstream?
<mjunx> JohnFlux, yes, but when you wait for over a month for that to happen, it gets kinda annoying...
<JohnFlux> yeah, but hmm
<JohnFlux> it's already a pain that launchpad has its own bug system
<JohnFlux> as a kde developer I often don't see bug reports filed just in ubuntu's system and not upstream
<JohnFlux> having a 2nd source tree with its own patches might get annoying
<seb128> JohnFlux: you can subscribe on a package in launchpad
<JohnFlux> seb128: but I can't close the bugs etc 
<mjunx> JohnFlux, I've reported kde bugs to launchpad only because sometimes I really think that ubuntu might have been the ones who screwed it up, and if not, the maintainer should know to forward the bug
<JohnFlux> mjunx: yeah
<JohnFlux> I'm not saying it's a big problem, but the majority of kde developers don't have a launchpad account etc
<seb128> JohnFlux: ask on #ubuntu-bugs to get bug triage rights
<mjunx> JohnFlux, you can join the bugsquad team and then you can close bugs and stuff
<seb128> JohnFlux: users are usually asked to report the bug at the distribution level because it might be due to a distro patch or something
<seb128> JohnFlux: we lack manpower to send everything upstream then though
* JohnFlux nods
<JohnFlux> I do understand
<seb128> JohnFlux: you are welcome to subscribe to the package on launchpad if you want to help there or read bugs that are not sent upstream
<JohnFlux> and kde does the same thing anyway - we have imported versions from other projects
<JohnFlux> our own modified copy of qt, and so on
<manchicken_> We do a pretty good job sending KDE stuff back upstream.
<manchicken_> But most of us Kubuntu folks are also KDE folks as well.
* JohnFlux nods
<JohnFlux> it would be nice to have launchpad opensourced etc and then have kde etc use it :-)
<manchicken_> I'm not as much of a big KDE contributor though.  A handful of stuff here and there, but the big players seem to be involved.
<JohnFlux> but there's an argument for another day heh
<JohnFlux> yeah
<manchicken_> launchpad isn't proprietary.  It's custom software.  It's not released.
<manchicken_> And KDE could use launchpad.
<manchicken_> It's pretty easy to register things on launchpad.
<manchicken_> It's just that KDE has its own thing going on.
<manchicken_> KDE has been around for a while, and they've already got what they like pretty well defined.
<JohnFlux> heh, nah
<JohnFlux> we've changed a lot of things
<JohnFlux> it wouldn't be a biggie to change the bug tracking system as well
<manchicken_> If KDE wanted to do launchpad, it's really quite simple to do so.
<JohnFlux> not politically
<JohnFlux> :-)
<manchicken_> What do you mean?
<mjunx> I like how they have a link to their "websvn", but instead they use viewcvs or something
<mjunx> I mean, I am/was a developer for websvn, and it would have been awesome to get feedback like that from a project with commits in the 6 digits
<JohnFlux> personally, I still remember what happened with the linux kernel and it relying on a proprietary revision control system
<manchicken_> Launchpad is a service provided by custom software running on privately owned servers.
<manchicken_> JohnFlux: bzr isn't proprietary.
<JohnFlux> it wasn't an exact analogy :-)
<JohnFlux> but in reference to using launchpad
<mjunx> I like subversion more than bzr, but that's because I don't have any experience with bzr ;p
<manchicken_> Launchpad isn't proprietary
<JohnFlux> i don't understand how you can say it's not proprietary
<manchicken_> It's not distributed software.  It's custom software running on managed servers.
<seb128> it is for the moment
<manchicken_> If it's not distributed, it's not licensed, it's not proprietary.
<seb128> JohnFlux: you can get back any data you put it though so it's doesn't enclose you
<manchicken_> Even RMS agreed with me on that when he visited Chicago not too longago.
<JohnFlux> not sure I agree with that definition heh
<JohnFlux> anyway, I'm sure the kde guys would want to have it running on their own systems
<manchicken_> Software that is only being used on servers you own and is not distributed is by every definition Free Software.
<manchicken_> And bzr can be run on their own systems.
<manchicken_> You can use bzr with any host that supports sftp.
<JohnFlux> but not launchpad
<JohnFlux> can't you buy launchpad btw?
<manchicken_> Launchpad is a web site, not a piece of software.
<JohnFlux> I thought I saw canonical selling it or something
<JohnFlux> #define launchpad the software that runs launchpad
<JohnFlux> :P
<manchicken_> You're merely requesting content from their HTTP servers.
<JohnFlux> anyway, it would be nice to have launchpad released and open sourced :-)
<JohnFlux> if that happened, I can see kde seriously considering using it
<manchicken_> And I'm having a hard time finding anything that would lead me to believe that Launchpad is distributed in any way.
<manchicken_> It would be nice to have Launchpad released as free software, yes.  But it is not by any definition that I can see non-free software.
<manchicken_> Not any more than google is non-free software
<thom> #ubuntu-offtopic
<ion_> apt-get install googled
<manchicken_> Nice.
<manchicken_> apt-get install fsf.org
<JohnFlux> manchicken_: can you imagine ubuntu relying on 3rd party servers for its bug tracking?
<JohnFlux> manchicken_: where it has no control over them, and no way of running the service itself etc
<JohnFlux> manchicken_: it's just not a wise idea
<manchicken_> JohnFlux: Nope.  I can't.  That's why they wrote their own.
<bhale> this isnt in the scope of the topic
* JohnFlux nods
<bhale> #ubuntu-offtopic
<JohnFlux> bhale: it's about ubuntu development.  how much more on topic can you get?
<bhale> JohnFlux: been asked once.
<JohnFlux> it was a silly request
<thom> it's not anything to do with the technical development of the ubuntu distribution
<JohnFlux> not distribution, but development
<bhale> "ubuntu development" in this context is very specific to development of packages and features of the open distro
<JohnFlux> this is ubuntu-devel not ubuntu-distribution
<thom> JohnFlux: if you wish to talk about launchpad, try #launchpad. or #ubuntu-offtopic
<manchicken_> JohnFlux: I agree that this isn't one of those things where we clearly are off-topic, but if it's bothering/annoying/irritating folks, I don't think it'd be too much to ask for us to -offtopic it.
<thom> you are not on-topic in this channel
<mjunx> it started off as on-topic ;)
<sharms> JohnFlux: #ubuntu-offtopic
#ubuntu-devel 2007-05-04
<wallyv_> Hi all.  I hope im in the right place.  I wanted to get involved wiht ubuntu development, and the wiki pages are a little self contradicting.  they talk about MOTU, core, etc.  Where should I go to get started?
<TheMuso> wallyv_: If you are interested in packaging, #ubuntu-motu and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU are the places to go.
<wallyv_> Thanks.  That is probably the best way to get started, ease into it.  thank you 
<micahcowan> Would somebody like to review my patch to gawk (bug 58256), for inclusion into gutsy?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 58256 in gawk "length() memory error " [Undecided,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/58256
<jdong> ok, I need to write an apology letter to Colin or send him a cake or something.....
<jdong> I just totally hackjobbed all of casper
<jdong> to make a all-from-RAM Ubuntu-ish distro :)
<jdong> in my defense casper toram did not work :)
<cjwatson> jdong: doesn't bother me, I only hack on casper when I need to, I don't actually maintain it ...
<cjwatson> send cake to Tollef :)
<jdong> cjwatson: lol, I will remember that :D
<jdong> cjwatson: am I correct in interpreting that casper's default "copy to ram" functionality decompresses the squashfs to a tmpfs?
<jdong> (and that it actually doesn't work in Feisty because nothing is setting ${TORAM} from /proc/cmdline...)
<cjwatson> jdong: I committed a fix for that to bzr, but I didn't upload it because I still couldn't get it to work
<jdong> cjwatson: ah, ok, I guess not a big deal, since the current toram method takes an obscene 2GB-ish RAM anyway... :(
* Sleepy_Coder must go now. :p
<cjwatson> hmm, no, that was something else, sorry
<cjwatson> yes, command-line option handling is missing from Ubuntu casper versus Debian casper
<jdong> I had a 500MB squash, forcing TORAM=1 caused an OOM on a 1GB RAM machine
<jdong> so I am guessing it actually copies everything from the squashfs to the tmpfs
<cjwatson> I think Tollef had a hard time distinguishing sensible things they'd done to casper from things that were a bit less sensible, and some features they added went astray as a result
<jdong> instead of just copying the squashfs image
<cjwatson> that's how it appears from the code, but I really haven't looked at it long enough to work out what it should be doing
<jdong> heh, IMO it's more sensible not to be decompressing the whole thing, especailly since we just unionfs it anyway :)
<cjwatson> the TODISK stuff is, er, interesting
<cjwatson> hello, ubiquity
<jdong> lol :)
<cjwatson> jdong: it's not entirely clear to me what it's trying to do in the first place
<cjwatson> avoid seeks?
<cjwatson> that would make TODISK make a little more sense I guess
<jdong> cjwatson: from what I understand and observed, it's mounting the squashfs, and copying everything off it to a tmpfs
<jdong> while what makes sense would be copying the squashfs file to a /tmpfs, then proceeding to boot.
<jdong> (whichi s what I hackjobbed my casper to do)
<cjwatson> mm, could be
<cjwatson> talk to the Debian casper folks about it? it's their feature :)
<jdong> ok :)
<jmg> oh casper, the friendly ghost
<cjwatson> the man page really doesn't go very far towards explaining the intent
<jdong> well, the intent with ohter distros is for long-term livecd usage, it's faster from RAM
<cjwatson> that does make sense
<jdong> and for me in this case, I want my system to be stateless and my laptop hard drive to spin down
<`23meg> cjwatson: are you sure this ubiquity bug is a duplicate? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/108107
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 108107 in ubiquity "Ubiquity should request confirmation before closing during instillation (dup-of: 107686)" [Wishlist,Unconfirmed]  
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 107686 in ubiquity "Installation doesn't stop when clicking cancel" [High,Confirmed]  
<cjwatson> `23meg: yes, even though they're superficially different. I've added a comment.
<cjwatson> the close button is busted in too many places and needs somebody to go through both gtk and kde frontends making sure it does the right thing
<`23meg> ah ok, thanks for the clarification
<backtick> Hi all (i hope i'm not asking in the wrong channel but this is a libc issue) .. calling getaddrinfo() fails on domains names (labels) starting/ending with a dash like http://-electra-.deviantart.com ...any idea why? I'm using fesity with stock packages (nothing compiled by hand)compiled by hand)..
<backtick> Mozilla (firefox) relies on this function for looking up domain names and so it fails on Ubuntu but works fine on Windows
<mjg59> backtick: It's illegal for a DNS name to start or end with a hyphen
<mjg59> See RFC1035, for instance
<backtick> mjg59: it's not extactly illegal .. accodring to RFC 1034 it's not preferred http://www.freesoft.org/CIE/RFC/1034/12.htm
<mjg59> "The labels must follow the rules for ARPANET host names.  They must
<mjg59> start with a letter, end with a letter or digit, and have as interior
<mjg59> characters only letters, digits, and hyphen."
<mjg59> ie, they can't start with a hyphen or end with a hyphen
<backtick> mjg59: i understand but i think the library should be a little loose with specifications to handle those who don't adhere
<mjg59> backtick: Shrug.
<mjg59> There's an argument for that, but it's certainly not a bug that it doesn't work
<backtick> I understand 
<fabbione> morning
<ajmitch> hi fabbione 
<mdke> cjwatson: did you get anywhere with discussing the question of md5sum hashes?
<dholbach> good morning
<pygi> hi dholbach 
<dholbach> hey pygi
<geser> morning dholbach
<dholbach> hey geser
<dholbach> how's it going guys?
<pitti> Good morning
<mdke> morning all
<pygi> hi pitti and mdke 
<Burgundavia> morning pitti, mdke, pygi
<pygi> and Burgundavia :)
<jsgotangco> hi
<doko> hi pitti
<doko> pitti: please approve python-defaults for feisty-proposed (reverting the change from yesterday, now that python2.5 is built on sparc)
<pitti> doko: done
<siretart> morning folks!
<pitti> hey siretart
<siretart> oh, mjg59's membership in ubuntu-core-dev expired today
<siretart> huhu pitti 
<pitti> geser: oh, why bother merging php4-* from Debian? We should rather remove them
<siretart> I remember reading some plans to drop apache1.x and php4 from debian/testing
<pitti> yay, merges.u.c. is up to date
<pitti> siretart: high time for that
<geser> pitti: that are packages providing a php4 and php5 module (although they are named php4-*)
<sbalneav> elmo: Hey, is gobby.ubuntu.com around this time?
<pitti> geser: ah, I see
<sbalneav> pitti: Hey! How's it going?  I'll owe you some beers here!
<pitti> sbalneav: pretty good! hmm, beer :)
<sbalneav> When do you arrive?
<pitti> sbalneav: will you guys come to Sevilla?
<sbalneav> I'm here now!
<pitti> sbalneav: oh, great!
<sbalneav> I'm at UES
<pitti> sbalneav: tomorrow evening
<Amaranth> heh
<Amaranth> i still haven't found someone who is arriving tomorrow afternoon
<Amaranth> they're either already there or get there late at night
<Treenaks> Amaranth: I am ariving tomorrow afternoon
<Amaranth> Treenaks: when?
<Treenaks> Amaranth: plane lands at 17:00
<Amaranth> err, that's evening to me :P
<Treenaks> Amaranth: it's not late at night ;)
<Amaranth> heh
<Treenaks> (I hope..)
<Amaranth> i meant more like 1300-1400
<Treenaks> I'm probably in Madrid then :)
<Treenaks> or somewhere high above France/Spain
<manchicken> Anybody gonna be at San Pablo at 1300 on Saturday (localtime)?
<manchicken> I'm looking to share a cab.
<Amaranth> haha
<Amaranth> so am i
<Amaranth> and my plane lands at 1255 iirc
<Amaranth> are you on the same flight?
<Burgundavia> anybody arriving around 11pm on the 5th?
<Amaranth> Burgundavia: I think PriceChild said that's about when he gets there
<manchicken> Amaranth: Mine too.
<Amaranth> manchicken: PM?
<Burgundavia> ahh
<manchicken> Amaranth: American airlines from Chicago?
<Amaranth> manchicken: no, from atlanta
<manchicken> Amaranth: Yeah, mine arrives at 12:55PM local time on the 5th.
<Amaranth> well, omaha to atlanta to madrid to sevilla
<manchicken> I've got Champaign, IL to Chicago, IL, to Madrid, to Sevilla.
<Treenaks> AMS->MAD->SVQ
<manchicken> I leave tomorrow at 12:40 localtime, I arrive at 12:55 on Saturday localtime.
<manchicken> My body is going to be so confused.
<Amaranth> manchicken: you must be in the same tiny little plane as me :)
<Amaranth> my computer is already set to localtime there
<Amaranth> and i was roughly sleeping those hours already because of work so... :)
<Treenaks> manchicken: I did something like that to Montreal :)
<Treenaks> manchicken: (and back)
<Amaranth> i leave today (dude it's after midnight :) at 1353
<manchicken> Amaranth: Ooh, yeah.
<manchicken> That makes sense.
<manchicken> Amaranth: I'll be wearing a blue button up shirt with Marlins on it.  I'm the fat white geek with a doubleclick backpack and a small green suitcase.  We should totally share a cab.
<Amaranth> hehe
<Amaranth> look for the ogre wearing a "No I will not fix your computer" shirt
<manchicken> https://launchpad.net/~manchicken
<Amaranth> will be hard to miss me, really
<manchicken> Oh yeah?
<Amaranth> 6'7"
<manchicken> Nice.
<Amaranth> so...yeah :)
<manchicken> It'll be nice not to be the only American.
<manchicken> I mean, you use GNOME, but I won't hold it against you ;)
<manchicken> I promise.
<Amaranth> You don't? We must do battle.
<manchicken> KDE ftw
<manchicken> I'm a big-time kubuntuer.
<manchicken> I did lots of work on adept for feisty.
<Amaranth> i spent my feisty time trying to make compiz not suck
<Amaranth> and that's the main goal for gutsy too so obviously something went wrong there
<manchicken> I'm sorry to hear that :)
* Amaranth blames drivers
<manchicken> As do I.
<Amaranth> whoa, wtf
* Amaranth tests again
<Amaranth> xchat-gnome suddenly started making actions show a different color
<manchicken> I hear compiz doesn't have binary blobs embedded in its source.
<Treenaks> Amaranth: ah! YOU didn't unbreak compiz + sloppy focus ;)
<manchicken> Amaranth: Variety is the spice of life.  It's a feature, not a bug.
<Amaranth> You mean compiled cg shaders? :)
<manchicken> UDS is gonna be sweet.
<Amaranth> Treenaks: I blame your mouse driver
<manchicken> Amaranth: You got a lp page?
<manchicken> Amaranth: I blame your limo driver.
<Amaranth> http://launchpad.net/~amaranth but it's pretty worthless
<manchicken> Oh, so you look like buttercup.  I'll just look for buttercup then and we'll be set.
<Amaranth> hahaha
<manchicken> Wow, my karma is only like 67
<Amaranth> kassetra from the forums made that for me
<Amaranth> it's got a python, get it? :)
<manchicken> It's probably because I don't really use the bug tracker :)
<manchicken> Nice.
<Treenaks> manchicken: http://www.jambav.com/jambav/blogs/media/buttercup.JPG ?
<manchicken> Except that I loathe python :)
<Amaranth> i have karma?
<Treenaks> Amaranth: yes.. 1257 of it
<Amaranth> interesting
<Amaranth> and wow how does launchpad know about my involvement with libwnck?
<manchicken> That buttercup.  What a bombshell.
<Treenaks> Amaranth: by parsing commit logs?
<Amaranth> oh, right, it's reading gnome's bugzilla
<Amaranth> no no, i don't have any commits to libwnck
<Amaranth> i did some work on the patches for libwnck to make it work better with compiz
<seb128> Amaranth: I think it's simpler than that you did comment on some launchpad libwnck bugs
<Amaranth> seb128: but it has me listed as being involved upstream
<pitti> iwj: I'm TIL for dpkg; however, can I bribe you to do the merge?
<seb128> Amaranth: maybe you opened some upstream tasks
<asac> pitti: tbird would like to get some binary NEW care :)
<pitti> asac: done
<pitti> doko: can I leave the zope3 merge to you?
<doko> pitti: sure
<mvo_> pitti: do you think that its worth to register a spec for sevilla for the sru-verification process? we could talk about improving the process by getting more members into the sru-verification team and what to do with stuff were verficiation is HW dependant
<pitti> mvo_: sounds good
<Kmos> php 5.2.2 is out =)
<Kmos> http://www.php.net/ChangeLog-5.php#5.2.2
<iwj> pitti: Yes.
<iwj> pitti: (re dpkg merge, I mean)
<pitti> iwj: thanks
<iwj> But not right now as I'm leaving in 5 mins or so ...
<pitti> iwj: yes, no hurry, I was just checking my merges.u.c. list
<ogra> seb128, evo is crashy for me on html mails ... do you know anything about that ?
* iwj goes.
<iwj> See people in Spain!
<ogra> enjoy the train ride :)
<jsgotangco> ole!
<seb128> ogra: every time? Can you get a backtrace?
<seb128> ogra: I got some crashes but when I restart it the same mail is opened correctly
<ogra> seb128, i'm just upgraing the system and hope it goes away, there were some libs and gnome stuff 
<ogra> right
<ogra> same hapens here 
<ogra> *happens
<ogra> i noticed its only html apparently
<mvo_> pitti: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/sru-verification (I added you and brian and myself)
<seb128> that doesn't really look like worth a spec
<mvo_> seb128: well, the current process does not scale, it needs to be improved
<seb128> mvo_: right, but it looks like rather an organisational problem to discuss than something that need to be speced
<mvo_> seb128: is there is another way to allocate some discussion time then to add a spec and propose it to sevilla? 
<seb128> mvo_: no idea
<pitti> mvo_: no, I don't think so
<mvo_> seb128: otherwise I agree, if there would be another way
<tepsipakki> topic is a bit outdated, s/DeveloperResources/UbuntuDevelopment/ ?
<tepsipakki> although there is a redirect
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-devel:pitti] : Development of Ubuntu (not support, even with gutsy; not application development on Ubuntu) | #ubuntu for support and general discussion for dapper/edgy/feisty | #ubuntu-motu for getting involved in development | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment | See #ubuntu-bugs for http://wiki.ubuntu.com/HelpingWithBugs | Gutsy open, go ape!
<pitti> tepsipakki: right, thanks for spotting
<tepsipakki> pitti: cool, np
<ogra> seb128, upgrade didnt fix it :/ i'll try to get a BT tonight if i have some spare time 
<seb128> ogra: that's not like getting a backtrace takes a lot of time
<seb128> does it segfault or complain about a non existant symbol or something?
<seb128> might the spellchecker changes that broke firefox also or something
<seb128> else
<ogra> hmm
<ogra> Program received signal SIGSEGV, Segmentation fault.
<ogra> [Switching to Thread -1233013056 (LWP 20621)] 
<ogra> 0xb7a6d93f in ?? () from /usr/lib/libgtkhtml-3.14.so.19
<ogra> thats what gdb gives me ... i need the -dbg package for more details
<ogra> (bt only lists the lib again, nothing more)
<stittel> Hi! Where can I find the current state of work on the Pidgin package for Gutsy? I can't find anything on Launchpad or Bazaar or packages.ubuntu.com or anywhere.
<pitti> doko: do you have an idea about the r-base FTBFS? looks toolchainish
<doko> pitti: hrm, wrong .so symlink, so it finds the static lib (which works on i386). will fix
* pitti hugs doko, thank you
<cypherbios> mvo_: can I do something like this *apt-get install --reinstall -d `cat packages.list`*  with Synaptic by with a single command-line call method? Where packages.list contains the list of packages I want to download.
<mvo_> cypherbios: not currently, I can add something like to for you if you need it for aptoncd
<cypherbios> mvo_: Great! It would be very very nice. Please :)
<cypherbios> mvo_: did you read my email about this? there are a more details about
<mvo_> cypherbios: when did you send it? I don't rember from the top of my head
<cypherbios> mvo_: Apr, 28 - 6 days ago
<cypherbios> mvo_: the subject was 'synaptic/apt/dpkg behavior', not much intuitive indeed :)
<mvo_> cypherbios: right, I have it here. I will answer on my trip to the ubuntu conference
<mvo_> cypherbios: sorry that it took so long
<cypherbios> mvo_: don't worry, thank you anyway
<Hobbsee> HI ALL!!!
* Hobbsee waves from the hotel
<pitti> hey Hobbsee! welcome
<Hobbsee> pitti: where are you?
<pitti> Hobbsee: still in my cozy home, I will start tomorrow noon :)
<Hobbsee> pitti: awww :(
<pitti> Hobbsee: still a normal workday today
<Hobbsee> pitti: pity.  i kinda figured as much
<Hobbsee> it seems that the rooms are are together, which si good
<Treenaks> pitti: hey, me too :)
<Treenaks> pitti: 12:00 flight from Amsterdam to Madrid, then on to Sevilla (Iberia)
<pitti> Treenaks: ah, Dresden - Munich - Barcelona - Sevilla for me, arrival 2015
<Simira> Hobbsee: how's Spain? Who are you sharing room with?
<Treenaks> pitti: I arrive at 1700
<Hobbsee> Simira: elkbuntu
<Hobbsee> Simira: just got here
* pitti leaves for a bit
<seb128> pitti: looks like I'm not the only one who had difficulties to find a decent flight
<Hobbsee> Simira: had lots of fun with metal screening...ugh.
<pitti> seb128: gosh, it takes longer to get there than to Montreal
<seb128> right
<Simira> I believe Tollef uses something like 9 hrs
<Hobbsee> lucky
<Hobbsee> 26.5 here
<Treenaks> Hobbsee: ouch
<Treenaks> 5 for me..
<Hobbsee> Treenaks: uh, yeah
<Simira> but Hobbsee is like on the other side of the world from the start...
<Treenaks> Simira: true..
<Hobbsee> Simira: i'm too damned far away
* Treenaks is going to have so much fun creating more 'Hello, I use ubuntu' videos ;)
<Treenaks> too bad I can't make it to ubucon tomorrow
<Hobbsee> we found a suspicious person with a ubuntu sticker on his lapotp at the airport too
<Treenaks> Hobbsee: With a weird African accent?
<Treenaks> South+
<Hobbsee> Treenaks: nah.  racarr
<broonie> pitti: (or anyone) Could someone talk me through how I'm supposed to propose a fix for SRU please?
<broonie> I thought I'd followed the procedure but apparently I'd made a mess of it.
<pitti> broonie: oh, it wasn't that messy
<pitti> broonie: just check the status in gutsy (the default task), create a dapper task, and write a rationale for an SRU
<broonie> I can't see any interface allowing me to create tasks.
<jdong> pitti: speaking of SRU, anything I can do to make you more comfortable of the KTorrent SRU?
<StevenK> broonie: Target to release...
<jdong> :)
<broonie> On the bug page? I can see "Nominate for release" but that's it.
<StevenK> Yeah, that's it.
<StevenK> Then someone in -qa (?) will have to approve it.
<broonie> I did that AFAICT (it says "Nominated for Dapper" on the bug).
<StevenK> Throw me the bug number, and I'll approve it.
<broonie> 47815. I think I also need to pull all the info in the bug into a single comment for the formal proposal from what pitti said.
<pitti> broonie: 'Target fix to release...' in the left menu
<StevenK> bug 47815
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 47815 in nis "/usr/lib/yp/ypxfr produces segmentation fault" [Medium,Fix committed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/47815
* StevenK is lazy. :-)
<broonie> pitti: I can't see that option?
<StevenK> broonie: Does it only affect Dapper?
<StevenK> broonie: Dapper approved.
<pitti> broonie: I approved your proposal for dapper
<broonie> Yes. The code is misoptimised by the compiler; the "fix" is to disable optimisation for the relevant file.
<broonie> Thanks.
<StevenK> So I shouldn't need to add a target for any release after Dapper? Okay.
<elmo> Seveas: ping
<jdong> stopid network connection
<StevenK> elmo: What is that, an auto-ping? :-P
<elmo> StevenK: no
<Seveas> elmo, pong
<elmo> Seveas: who do I contact about making sure freenode don't k-line the conference IP as clonebots
<elmo> +?
<Seveas> elmo, BearPerson, nalioth, christel or other senior freenode staffers
<Seveas> RichiH has an idle time of 3 minutes, he should be around
<elmo> Seveas: thanks, talking to nalioth now
<StevenK> Oh, twitch.
<StevenK> /dev/mapper/system-var 9.9G  9.4G     0 100% /var
<bddebian> Heya
<pirast> keescook, what about the asterisk security upload? my debdiffs are available for 5 days now :( please have a look at them and upload if they are okay
<jdong> pitti: heh bug 112346 has just been filed against the only KTorrent crash fixed in the SRU that's not reported
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 112346 in ktorrent "[apport]  ktorrent crashed with signal 7 in memcpy()" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/112346
<jdong> so please consider the SRU :(
<pitti> jdong: heh
<pitti> jdong: ok, let me dig though that mega-patch again
<jdong> sorry about it :(, I don't want it to be that huge either
<pitti> jdong: I just got suspicious when I saw a patch changing a set into a list and such
<jdong> pitti: understood; apparently it was necessary to fix a memory corruption issue
<jdong> or at least that's the way upstream decided to do it
<jdong> as I've said before, I am a heavy KTorrent user and I have confidence these patches don't introduce any regressions
<pitti> jdong: and this bit still looks wrong:
<pitti> +-                              if (ab->isFinished())
<pitti> ++                              if (!ab || ab->isFinished())
<pitti> +                               {
<pitti> +                                       ab->deleteLater();
<pitti> jdong: i. e. if ab == NULL, the ->deleteLater() will still crash
<jdong> pitti: hmm, interesting.... I'll ask upstream....
<jdong> pitti: is there anything else that looks particularly concerning?
<pitti> jdong: still digging through; I don't understand kubuntu_06_svn634843_retransmit_timeout.patch, the rest looks good so far
<jdong> pitti: apparently timeouts weren't being handled correctly before, and KTorrent wouldn't respond to retransmit requests, which causes other torrent clients to flag KTorrent as "evil"
<pitti> ah, thanks
<pitti> jdong: ok, I'm through; I made some comments in the bug
<jdong> pitti: thanks for the review; I will work on addressing your concerns
<pitti> jdong: thank you!
<`23meg> !logs
<ubotu> Channel logs can be found at http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs
<Solarion> I have finally traced the source of my network-manager troubles
<Solarion> apparently my university is using Cisco wireless APs which are outputting Cisco-proprietary cap information (wme_ie instead of the standard rsn_ie or wpa_ie).
<cbx33> hey guys, anyone managed to use inotify with python in feisty?
<cbx33> i though inotify was a signal callback type system....but from the docs it looks like you have to poll it?
<cbx33> am i stupid?
<highvoltage> cbx33: no, you are not
* Solarion is
<cbx33> highvoltage, so I'm right?
<cbx33> and as per the examples
<highvoltage> cbx33: I don't know. I just answered on the last question.
<cbx33> from pyinotify.pyinotify import (ProcessEvent, SimpleINotify, EventCodes, )
<cbx33> doesn't work
<cbx33> says ther are no modules called ProcessEvent
<cbx33> thanks highvoltage ;)
<cbx33> from pyinotify import (ProcessEvent, SimpleINotify, EventCodes, )
<cbx33> sorry
<cbx33> the above doesn't work either
<cbx33> i think pyinotify is broken
<Chipzz> cbx33: you don't need the parentheses
<Chipzz> (I think)
<cbx33> hehe
<cbx33> I'm digging deeper
<ogra> apt-get install python-pyinotify-doc ??
<ogra> ;)
<Chipzz> cbx33: class EventsCodes(object):
<Chipzz> note the s
<cbx33> yes i just modified that
<cbx33> ogra, have you got it working
<ogra> no
<cbx33> in the end i had to modify one of the shared files
<cbx33> which had import inotify
<cbx33> it had to be import _inotify
<ogra> i just pointed out that there is an extensive amount of documentation packaged ;)
<cbx33> yes the docs are good
<cbx33> however, I have just come up against another problem
<cbx33>   File "./inotify.py", line 11, in check
<cbx33>     ino.process_events()
<cbx33>   File "/var/lib/python-support/python2.5/pyinotify/pyinotify.py", line 650, in process_events
<cbx33>     proc_fun(e)
<cbx33> TypeError: 'NoneType' object is not callable
<cbx33> it works fine until there is actually a change to take care of
<cbx33> hmm
<cbx33> got it working
<cbx33> :( i thought inotify was signal callback :(
* cbx33 doesn't want any of this polling business
<cbx33> plus it's broken :(
<Seveas> cbx33, _inotify is the low level interface, try the things in the inotify module
<cbx33> Seveas, well the problem is
<cbx33> the pyinotify.py file imports some things from inotify.py that don't exist
<cbx33> however they do exist in _inotify.so
<cbx33> so now that I've edited the pyinotify.py file it works
<cbx33> Seveas, i pinged you yesterday....how is falcon coming along for feisty?
<Seveas> cbx33, I have it running on feisty
<Seveas> should check what I had to fix and bake a proper package
<cbx33> well I'd be interested in it 
<cbx33> i need to update my repo for VCSFrenzy
<Hobbsee> hi all, hi Seveas 
<Seveas> hi Hobbsee 
<Seveas> cbx33, pm
<Seveas> Hobbsee, is elky awake?
<Hobbsee> Seveas: sure, she's playing with the tv
<Seveas> heh
<Hobbsee> Seveas: did you want me to pass on a message?
<Seveas> yeah, "prepare for swimming" :)
<Hobbsee> actually, she's about to login, it looks like - she's just asked me about the password to login
<Hobbsee> hahahhahaa
* Hobbsee passes the message on
<Seveas> It's swimbuntu!
* Hobbsee thinks not
<Hobbsee> it's not warm enough to swim!
<Seveas> what's the temp. in sevilla?
* Hobbsee ponders what the splash screen would look like...
<Hobbsee> 20C or so?
<Hobbsee> give or take?
<pitti> infinity: can you please give-back javacc? it works fine in a current pbuilder, maybe some build dep like ant was out of date
<Hobbsee> i've seen that many airports today that i dont remember which temperature was which
<Seveas> weather applet says 20
* Solarion wishes networkmanager would remember that either the network information better
* jdong wishes network-manager-gnome had a less hidden method of "forgetting" networks
* jdong also wishes for a blackbook core 2 duo with 2GB RAM
<jdong> and world peace
<elkbuntu> ha
<elkbuntu> you cant throw us in if you're not here
<jdong> :)
<Seveas> elkbuntu, I'll arrive there in about 31 hours
<Hobbsee> right, so we're safe until....*calculates*
<cbx33> jdong, sounds like a beast of a machine
<elkbuntu> Hobbsee, midnight tomorrow
<Hobbsee> fun
<Seveas> elkbuntu, evrn longer
<Seveas> plane lands at 00:20
<elkbuntu> oh?
<jdong> cbx33: certainly does :), looks sexy too
<elkbuntu> ah, i thought it was like just before midnight
<cbx33> got a link?
<jdong> cbx33: apple.com/store? :)
<jdong> the one I priced out was like 1400 with student discounts
<jdong> which I found reasonable for a system with that specs and that size factor
<cbx33> heh
<cbx33> yeh
<cbx33> back later guys
<jdong> yeah, good luck on yor notify stuff :)
<pochu> any core-dev can review a one-line change which fixes bug 112384? :)
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 112384 in liferea "Liferea doesn't work anymore due to the latest firefox upload (2.0.0.3+3-0ubuntu1)" [High,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/112384
<pochu> there's a debdiff in the report
* jdong gives Mithrandir a big hug after https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BootToRAM and expects a whipping soon....
<infinity> pitti: Done.
<jdong> pitti: *grumble grumble* Ktorrent upstream fixed it in their development branch but not their stable one; I will backport the new patch and update the SRU accordingly
<pitti> infinity: thank you!
<pitti> jdong: hm, I figure the fix for that NULL deref shouldn't be that intrusive?
<jdong> pitti: nope, but KT upstream loves to bundle such fixes in svn commits with lots of other random crap too
<jdong> no worries, I shall fix :)
<pitti> jdong: yay; wasn't that what VCS were built for to avoid? :-/
<jdong> pitti: well.. it's better than like 5 months ago when their changelog for a 200-line commit was "Fixed a problem"
<jdong> :D
<pitti> lol
<broonie> jdong: My favourite is "New version"
* pitti -> off for evening, cu in spain
<tepsipakki> can anyone tell me why the x-x-v-ati driver has Conflicts/Replaces/Provides for atimisc/r128/radeon, right from the start when it has been packaged. None of those packages have been in Debian/Ubuntu, so those can probably be dropped from the driver?
<broonie> For any commit of any size.
<Treenaks> broonie: 'changed a few things'
<jdong> broonie: they'd release like 2.0.1 and their changelog to 2.0.0 was "Features and bugfixes"... and we're combing thru like 1000-line debdiffs UVF season.
<broonie> Sounds entirely famililar. The guy I'm thinking of just used the same commit message for all commits, each of which could have random numbers of different things going on it.
<jdong> :)
<afflux_> I can't build a gutsy pbuilder on feisty due to a missing file (E: No such script: /usr/lib/debootstrap/scripts/gutsy)
<afflux_> any ideas for a workaround? I'd like to have a pbuilder for gutsy without using gutsy ;)
<pochu> afflux_: install debootstrap from gutsy
<afflux_> would that mean I get a chroot (but not a pbuilder?)
<jdong> no
<jdong> pbuilder uses debootstrap to build the base.tgz
<jdong> (and a pbuilder is a special form of a chroot)
<afflux_> ah.. so I should download debootstrap from gutsy and install it in my feisty?
<jdong> yeah, I think that should work
<jdong> debootstrap is all non-binary scripts anyway, it should be safe to do
<afflux_> okay, I'll have a try
<jdong> I should backport debootstrap
<afflux> looks good, thank you both
<psusi> I can't debootstrap gutsy either because some package fails to install
<bashelier> psusi: could you please past the errors you get ? :)
<bashelier> we can't help you if you don't ;)
<psusi> trying it again and will do so in a second
<psusi> it's fetching packages now...
<psusi> how do you like that?  today bootstrapping gutsy works
<bashelier> psusi: ^^
<psusi> guess it's been fixed... I think it was choking on tzdata before
<pirast> keescook, hi
<Tincho> hi. anybody knows if kyle mcmartin is usually found on irc?
<Lure> Tincho: it is, here or in #ubuntu-kernel, but he is probably travelling to uds-sevilla
<Tincho> Lure: ah, ok. will mail him then
<Tincho> thanks
<psusi> can anyone sponsor an upload for me?  I have attached a debdiff to bug #110335
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 110335 in wxwidgets2.6 "index.html is a dangling symlink" [Undecided,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/110335
<jdong> psusi: aren't you supposed to be subscribing u-u-s and crap ;-)
<psusi> eh?
<jdong> psusi: subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors
<jdong> that's apparently the "correct" way to be begging for sponsors ;-)
<psusi> ohhh... right... wait a second... let me see, this package may not be in universe ;)
<jdong> ubuntu-main-sponsors :)
<psusi> ohh, yea.. it is universe... ok, cool
<jdong> I usually start poking like a week after no response :D
<psusi> fortunately, it's a single line patch that just removes an extranious '-' in the file name ;)
<psusi> shouldn't take long to review... hehe
<psusi> man I can't wait for dpkg triggers to get here
<psusi> it sucks big floppy donkey dong to see the initramfs, font caches, etc all being rebuild 300 times during a dist-upgrade
<jdong> 17:40 < psusi> it sucks big floppy donkey dong to see the initramfs, font 
<jdong> NO. COMMENT.
<jdong> :D
<psusi> hehe
<psusi> incidentally I also like that phrase because it contains the word floppy... and floppy drives suck big floppy donkey dong...  wrote a driver for them once for ReactOS
<jdong> LOL
<psusi> writing a driver REALLY makes you appreciate just how bad they suck
<jdong> lol
<jdong> I tore all mine apart
<jdong> nice servos
<jdong> good for other projects
<psusi> ok now, what the hell?  I swear to god I wrote a bug email to debian's bts a little bit ago, but I have not had a reply and it isn't in my sent mail folder
<Kmos> cjwatson: can you confirm if this one is on gutsy kernel yet ?! bug 106622
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 106622 in linux-source-2.6.20 "linux-image-2.6.20-15 fails to properly detect and configure EMS USB-II" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/106622
<desrt> anyone getting to sevilla airport around midnight on the 5/6th want to share a cab? :)
#ubuntu-devel 2007-05-05
<micahcowan> Would somebody like to sponsor an upload of my fix for bug 58256?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 58256 in gawk "length() memory error " [Undecided,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/58256
<mneptok> munh. tons of users are compiling Pidgin 2.0 or using unofficial .debs
<jdong> mneptok: I know
<jdong> working on unofficial debs myself :D
<jdong> LOL
<mneptok> please don't
<jdong> I have no intention of posting them
<mneptok> oh, ok.
<mneptok> nm
<jdong> I just am hacking with debian svn's debianization
<mneptok> i have no objections to you pulling the wings off butterflies in some sick "scientific" endeavor. just don't feed them to the neighbor's kids.
<mneptok> ;)
<jdong> lol
<jdong> it looks like pidgin installs side-by-side with gaim
<jdong> which is good news for people debianizing
<jdong> I still think my approach is somewhat saner than checkinstalling
<sn0> there are unofficiall debs linked on the forums
<sn0> i have a 3rd party mirror up
<sn0> otr too
<jdong> sn0: how were these unofficial debs built?
<jdong> please don't tell me someone checkinstalled them....
<sn0> is there an easy way to find that out, i didn't build them
<jdong> URL?
<sn0> http://gnome-look.org/content/show.php/Pidgin+2+DEB?content=57356
<sn0> my mirrors (non rapidshare) area https://linedash.net/ubu/feisty/pidgin_2.0.0-1_i386.deb https://linedash.net/ubu/feisty/pidgin-otr_3.0.0-1_i386.deb
<jdong> where's the source...
<sn0> forgive my ignorance of compiling but checkinstall would be bad ?
<jdong> yes
<jdong> it makes packages that do not follow Debian conventions
<jdong> and may be a pain while upgrading
<jdong> or when an official pidgin comes out
<sn0> i did notice someone mentioned on the forums about debian/ctronl not listing gaim packages as being forbidden to be installed
<sn0> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=429255&page=9
<sn0> *control
<jdong> sn0: they install side by side
<jdong> i.e. they can coexist
<jdong> one does not conflict or replace the other
<sn0> yes both are working fine gaim/pidgin
<jdong> yep
<jdong> which IMO is good news :)
<sn0> :]  cool
<sn0> txt based finch (part of pidgin) is nice :) gnite
<rizza> hello
<rizza> anyone involved with the installer
<Hobbsee> morning all
<Treenaks> hi Hobbsee 
<Hobbsee> Treenaks: :)
* Treenaks is done packing.. but now I have to do nothing for 1.5 hours before going to the airport..
<Hobbsee> heh
* Hobbsee doesnt have to catch a plain today - woo!
<StevenK> That's 'plane'
<StevenK> Catching a field might hurt.
<Treenaks> Hobbsee: I live a bit closer to Spain ;)
<Hobbsee> er, yeah, plane
<Hobbsee> thought my brain was working :)
<Treenaks> Hobbsee: what's the weather like in Sevilla?
<Hobbsee> Treenaks: i think 13C at the moment, supposed to be 26C today
<Hobbsee> getting more humid, apparently
<Mithrandir> hiya Hobbsee 
<Hobbsee> heya Mithrandir!
<jdong> In Soviet Russia, plane catch YOU
* jdong grins
<Hobbsee> hah
<sladen> Soviet Russia, very strange place
<Hobbsee> morning sladen 
<sladen> Hobbsee: morning.  You're a bit late leaving to get to Sevilla by today?  Doesn't australia take ~= 24hours?
<Hobbsee> sladen: uh?
* Hobbsee is here...
<Hobbsee> sladen: and 26.5 was our time
<sladen> ah, see you at breakfast then
<Hobbsee> yes
<Hobbsee> sladen: elky wants to know where you are
* StevenK idly wonders if he will get a chance to discuss his spec.
* Hobbsee + elky --> breakfast
<stittel> Hi! Is there a tool to automaticall figure out the runtime dependencies when creating a new package?
<Treenaks> stittel: what are you doing, and what do you want to accomplish :)
<stittel> I was thinking about just doing "make && make install" and then use this tool to check the link-level dependency of the created binaries...
<Treenaks> ldd
<Treenaks> objdump
<stittel> Yes, ldd is nice.
<Treenaks> don't those 2 do what you want?
<stittel> objdump looks up to which installed package a certain file belongs?
<Treenaks> no
<Treenaks> that's dpkg
<stittel> I was thinking of a program that I feed a directory and that will give me the package names of all debian packages that contain a file that a file in this directory is linked against.
<Treenaks> I think you should read a few documents about debian packaging... it'll explain everything
<stittel> Any link at hand?
<Treenaks> stittel: look at the debian policy.. and debian packaging tutorials.. google will find them for you
<stittel> Ok, thank, I will.
<stittel> I understand you right that the proper way to find out run-time dependencies for packaging does not require me to hunt them down by hand?
<Treenaks> stittel: no.. that's what dh_shlibdeps does
<Treenaks> or at least, it helps you
<stittel> Thanks again! Bye!
<tepsipakki> MoM has fallen behind again
<JohnFlux2> only a few more hours before I leave
<afflux> my pbuilder for gutsy doesn't want to build... http://phpfi.com/231825
<afflux> (happens on pbuilder create, using debootstrap from gutsy in feisty)
<MagnusR> Hej
<Treenaks> hello from Schiphol :)
<Seveas> Treenaks, heh, lucky you flying early
<Lathiat> what package is responsible for automounting CDs
<Lathiat> gnome-volume-manager or hal or ?
<Lathiat> (for bug filing purpsoes)
<Nafallo> Lathiat: gvm
<Lathiat> cheers
<ekidd> Good morning! The hardware database client in Feisty is a lovely piece of work.
<ekidd> Is the server component under active development?
<sladen> ekidd: try asking 'ogra' for more information
<ekidd> Thanks!
<Keybuk> damn I am tired!
<Keybuk> I need to learn how to sleep on planes
<ion_> :-(
<Keybuk> and someone has helpfully changed my flight to Seville
<Keybuk> an "it's not on the board" panic is not good when sleepy
<zul> heh
<Keybuk> happily I think I slept for about an hour on the coach between heathrow and gatwick
<zul> gatwick is in london isnt it?
<Keybuk> south of london
<zul> I always flew in and out of heathrow when I was younger
* Keybuk wonders who else will be on this flight
<Keybuk> I recognise one guy in the departure lounge
<Keybuk> think he might be a community guy
<Treenaks> hello everyone :)
<pygi> hi
* Treenaks ircs from the conf hotel
<jdong> infinity: can you look at https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ktorrent/2.1.4-0ubuntu1~feisty1 for me? It seems to be mysteriously stuck in queue like a minority at a Southern airport line.
<ph1zzle> hey all, I just have a simple enough question, when ubuntu installs on a system that has win XP installed and it sets it up so that it can dual boot, what does it do so that windows XP plays along?
<ph1zzle> does it move the boot sector / MBR or does it modify some data one the win XP partition?
<mjg59> Nothing - Windows never knows
<mjg59> The Windows boot sector is in the Windows partition
<ph1zzle> I have tried it myself and windows always seems to fail
<mjg59> The MBR gets replaced with code that calls grub
<ph1zzle> right, but, I have made a backup of my boot sector a few times and then I install windows, I then boot into a live cd and re install the grub boot sector then modify it so that it chain loads windows but windows fails to boot at that point
<ph1zzle> boot sector is only 512 bytes too, correct?
<ph1zzle> from what I have seen documented the boot sector is only 512 bytes and I do a dd bs=1b count=1 and I get the end of sector 55 aa at the end of it (cat ./bootsect.bak | od -An -tx1)
<ScottK> You wouldn't be using RAID of some kind would you?
<ph1zzle> no
<ph1zzle> no I am not
<ph1zzle> it's a intel dual core 1 laptop
<ph1zzle> and no software raid
<ScottK> OK.  Just a thought.
<ph1zzle> so your saying all I need to do is backup the boot sector and restore it after the install?
<ph1zzle> what I have seen is when I do that and setup the chain loader etc, windows starts and then gives me a non recoverable error
<ph1zzle> I forget what it is at the moment, but I mean it's during the windows boot, no desktop or login screen ever comes close
<ScottK> The only way I've ever done it is install Windows first and then Linux.  Works great.  I know it can be done the other way, but I've never tried.  #ubuntu is the help channel.  You might have more luck there.
<jdong> apport needs a duplicate traceback checker :D
<Draconicus> Can somebody here link me to something that explains how you guys make your live CDs?
<jdong> Draconicus: LiveCDCustomization/6.06
<jdong> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/LiveCDCustomization/6%2e06
<jdong> ^^ to be more exact
<Draconicus> Thank you.
<jdong> it's actually a lot simpler a procedure than I expected
<Draconicus> Thanks a ton.
<jdong> no problem :)
<Draconicus> The ##linux guys were all trying to make me do it from scratch. :P
<jdong> lol
<Draconicus> I'm glad I can just edit the existing LiveCD stuff to my own liking.
<jdong> casper (the Ubuntu livecd system) is very nicely organized and customizable
<Draconicus> Just to check: That lets me use my own password and settings, right?
<jdong> yes, you can set up your own password and settings
<Draconicus> Settings, of course. Password I'm mostly concerned about.
<jdong> and choice of apps , etc
<Draconicus> Mm.
<jdong> the wiki gives instructions specifically on changing password, IIRC
<Draconicus> Goodie.
<Draconicus> I'm thinking I'll put IceWM or some such on there to keep things light but flexible.
<Draconicus> Most machines take forever and a day to boot the LiveCD.
<ScottK> Did you try Xubuntu?
<Draconicus> I love Xfce, but for a CD boot, that's still too big.
<Draconicus> Xfce 4, that is.
<Draconicus> One must sacrifice resources for the sake of graphical flexibility and improvement.
<tepsipakki> so.. will the mobile-ubuntu be used as default on the intel-devices?
#ubuntu-devel 2007-05-06
<fiery_cleric> hi how can i get a list of build dependencies for a package ?
<crimsun> apt-cache showsrc package|grep ^Build-Dep
<fiery_cleric> thanks
<fiery_cleric> any reason why that command works with other packages but not a linux-image-* ?
<fiery_cleric> i am trying to find the version of gcc used to compile a kernel image ....
<crimsun> that's noted in /proc/version
<crimsun> or you can read the buildd log(s)
<crimsun> and it works fine with l-i-foo
<fiery_cleric> ok yeah its for a image thats not currently running... i could reboot but :).... ill see if i can find the build logs
<crimsun> which kernel?
<crimsun> (need a specific source version)
<fiery_cleric> linux-image-2.6.15-27-386 , but i want to be able to know in general how to find out
<fiery_cleric> its probably gcc 4.0
<jdong> Linux version 2.6.15-28-server (buildd@terranova) (gcc version 4.0.3 (Ubuntu 4.0.3-1ubuntu5)) #1 SMP Tue Mar 13 21:09:03 UTC 2007
<jdong> ^^ 28-server is 4.0.3; I assume -i386 will be same
<fiery_cleric> thanks
<jpsamara> Can someone explain why on ubuntu, the default install of open-office doesn't  have all the menu icons for oo comonents? oomath is missing, oodraw is hidden and outside office menu...
<jpsamara> where can I file a bug for this....
<minghua> jpsamara: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/openoffice.org/+filebug
<jpsamara> Thanks minghua , but I think this is the expected behavior, just wanted to understand why?
<minghua> jpsamara: I think maybe they want to put oodraw in "Graphics" and oomath in "Education" which makes more sense
<minghua> jpsamara: did you check "Education" menu?  is oomath there?
<jpsamara> let me open alacarte
<Fujitsu> I believe that oodraw and oomath were removed as they are mostly invoked from within the other applications.
<Fujitsu> There's a spec on it.
<jpsamara> in windows, oodraw and oomath are presented to the user as just other apps...
<jpsamara> Fujitsu: where is this spec? do you have the link?
<Fujitsu> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MenusRevisited
<Fujitsu> It doesn't mention those two explicitly.
<jpsamara> found it
<jpsamara> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/openoffice.org/+bug/75478
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 75478 in openoffice.org "No shortcut to OpenOffice::Draw" [Wishlist,Confirmed]  
<jpsamara> for example
<Hobbsee> morning all!
<cypherbios> hey Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> cypherbios: :)
<Mithrandir> Hobbsee: you're up too early.  :-P
<StevenK> Mithrandir: Spoken like a true early-riser.
<lifeless> JohnFlux_: leave what?
<lifeless> Mithrandir: touche
<Mithrandir> hiya lifeless
<lifeless> breakfast room is evil
<lifeless> too much good food
<Mithrandir> heh
* Mithrandir goes down for food
<Hobbsee> Mithrandir: haha :D
<Hobbsee> Mithrandir: will meet you down there in a min, ifyou want
* Fujitsu wonders if the sync blacklist (and maybe a removals list too!) is publicly available somewhere.
<Hobbsee> probably
* Hobbsee --> out
<insmod> i fixed a problem with laptops not shuting down and posted it -- is there anything else i should do?
<insmod> anyone ---- anyone.....
<Mithrandir> Fujitsu: http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/sync-blacklist.txt
<Mithrandir> Fujitsu: oh, and http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/removals.txt
<Fujitsu> Mithrandir: Thanks, I should probably have thought to look there first.
<Mithrandir> good morning seb128 
<seb128> hey Mithrandir
<insmod> i fixed a problem with laptops not shuting down and posted it -- is there anything else i should do?
<Mithrandir> insmod: posted it where?
<pitti> Good morning
<Mithrandir> hiya Martin
<insmod> Mithrandir: kubuntuforum
<pitti> hey all
<Mithrandir> insmod: generally, post bug comments to the relevant bug on launchpad.  You can't count on developers reading forums.
<Fujitsu> Hi pitti.
<insmod> Mithrandir: can i just tell you the solution lol
<Mithrandir> insmod: that's not helpful either; please use launchpad instead.
<tepsipakki> Good morning. Are the ubuntu popcon results visible somewhere?
<Mithrandir> tepsipakki: http://popcon.ubuntu.com/, surprisingly. :-P
<tepsipakki> whee :)
<highvoltage> cjwatson: could you add what the timezone is to the uds-sevilla page? some people who are attending on-line have been unsure, or assumed UTC time
<shawarma> What's the link to the merge blacklist?
<Mithrandir> http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/sync-blacklist.txt
<shawarma> Mithrandir: Great. Thanks.
<Keybuk> rah!
<lifeless> does that make mdz the Black Magician?
<kylem> blue wizard needs food badly.
<lespea> dd if=/dev/fridge of=blud_wizard
<seb128> Mithrandir: could you give a buildd retry to libwmf when the new libgtk2.0-0 is available (I just accepted it from NEW)?
<seb128> binary NEW
<Mithrandir> seb128: sure
<Kmos> seb128: working now =)
<seb128> cool
<shawarma> Is there a formal process for un-blacklisting things or should I just shout at whoever added it to the list in the first place?
<Riddell> is there a uds channel?
<shawarma> #uds-sevilla
<Spads> #uds-sevilla
<Mithrandir> cjwatson,Keybuk : the URLs on the schedule are all wrong, they link to /ubuntu and similar, but needs http://launchpad.net/ prepended.
<Kmos> Riddell: check bug 104848
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 104848 in hwdb-client "Bad english translation on hwdb-client" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/104848
* Fujitsu watches the entire conference drop off the edge of the world.
<zyga> morning
<levander> Anyone in here using pdb (aka gud) under emacs to debug Python on Feisty? pdb ain't working for me on Feisty.
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-devel:Hobbsee] : Development of Ubuntu (not support, even with gutsy; not application development on Ubuntu) | #ubuntu for support and general discussion for dapper/edgy/feisty | #ubuntu-motu for getting involved in development | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment | See #ubuntu-bugs for http://wiki.ubuntu.com/HelpingWithBugs | Gutsy open, go ape! | Ubuntu Development Summit now on - see http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/uds-sevilla/
<bhale> hola Hobbsee 
<Hobbsee> hola bhale!
<zul> hey Hobbsee 
<Hobbsee> hi zul!
* Hobbsee --> lunch
<Fujitsu> tepsipakki: You're really, really quiet. I can barely hear you.
<cyberix> Is there a script, process or team that will finally move https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/Candidates into Launchpad?
<pochu> cyberix: #ubuntu-motu is a better team ;)
<pochu> s/team/channel/
<cyberix> Ok
<cyberix> Thanks
<Mithrandir> ajmitch: do you have your fds packaging in bzr somewhere?
<ajmitch> Mithrandir: not right now, since it's been from a cvs snapshot of fds
<Mithrandir> hmkay; any idea when they're going to roll a release so we can get it in?
<ajmitch> no indications on the devel list
<ra21vi> is there any plan to create a contrl-center specific to Ubuntu
<seb128> ra21vi: not really, why?
<ra21vi> seb128: A control  center where an user can set the Gnome settings, also will have administrative tasks as well as user settings/preferences, and server settings, along with common networking and other things
<seb128> ra21vi: like gnome-control-center?
<ra21vi> seb128: yeah, but better than that, and with more control over the system, it would be centralized control system, not only specific to Gnome settings
<ra21vi> seb128: and with backend to disply extra information for the settings which is hovered or selected
<ra21vi> dont anyone think it should be in official Ubuntu
<ra21vi> A much central config/setting/preference place...
<seb128> gnome-control-center is that
<seb128> you have the gnome-system-tools
<ra21vi> so when users have to do some settings, he know where is the place, and he would open the control-center, and browse the catagory
<ra21vi> seb128: but is not much better, and also it doesnt have things which are not for Gnome
<ra21vi> like server settings with graphical UI
<ra21vi> I know most servers and admin don't need this, they have CLI 
<ra21vi> but for others it would be
<seb128> the gnome-system-tools are not GNOME specific
<seb128> they just use GNOME for their user interface
<ra21vi> i am in concern like, Novell didnt find Gnome Default main-menu so impressive, so building something new..  so Ubuntu can go for centralized control center,
<ra21vi> Redhat is known for much better central-configuration support
<sladen> groovy, is it in upstream GNOME?
<poningru> anyone know the package list for ubuntu-server?
<mc44> poningru: http://releases.ubuntu.com/7.04/ubuntu-7.04-server-i386.list?
<poningru> I'll take it
<poningru> thanks
<sivang> 
<beuno> anyone around who can fill me in on when debian maintainers get emails for bugs or patches and when not (I've heard they have to opt in)
<tepsipakki> beuno: the diffs can be found on patches.ubuntu.com. I don't know if they are mailed or not
<beuno> tepsipakki: this isn't a patch I'm talking about, there is a package in Ubuntu which has a bug
<beuno> that package comes from debian
<beuno> so I reported it in launchpad
<beuno> and the DD has her launchpad account claimed
<pochu> beuno: they should subscribe to the bug, or to the entire package
<beuno> she's beside me and didn't get notified in any way
<hellvie> hey, I`m wondering... what languages are used in development of ubuntu?
<tepsipakki> right, bugs aren't sent to DD's
<beuno> pochu: they have to do that manually for each package?  the maintainer field already has her automatically
<beuno> it was assigned when imported
<beuno> so why isn't she suscribed to her own bug if she claimed her launchpad account?
<pochu> beuno: I think so, she needs to that
<beuno> well, I'm not sure if that's the best solution  :D
<minghua> beuno: she still need to subscribe each package
<pochu> beuno: she's the original maintainer, not the maintainer ;)
<minghua> beuno: LP doesn't send bug reports to the maintainer automatically
<beuno> minghua: for a specific reason, or just because it hasn't been implemented
<pochu> and the fact that she's the maintainer doesn't matter
<pochu> as minghua's said :)
<pochu> beuno: you can file a bug ;)
<minghua> beuno: I think that's intentional.  It's an opt-in, not opt-out
<pochu> beuno: in ubuntu there aren't specific maintainers, so lp doen't mail them
<beuno> and how can she become maintainer in Ubuntu for that package?
<minghua> beuno: this decision was made before we have this "original Debian maintainer" thing
<pochu> e.g. a lot of packages have a team as the maintainer
<pochu> beuno: she can attach debdiffs to the bugs, and subscribe ubuntu-[main,universe] -sponsors
<beuno> pochu: attaching debdiffs to the bug makes her the maintainer?
<minghua> beuno: what does she mean by "become maintainer in Ubuntu"?  does she want to upload the packages to ubuntu herself?  or does she just what to get bug reports?
<tepsipakki> pochu: just subscribing to the package is enough
<tepsipakki> it can be a synced package
<beuno> minghua: she wants to maintain the package in Ubuntu too
<minghua> beuno: and which package are we talking about?  if there is no Ubuntu specific changes, the Debian changes will enter Ubuntu automatically.
<beuno> minghua: they get synced daily?
<pochu> beuno: they get synced at the beggining of the release cycle
<minghua> beuno: yes, quite frequently during the early stage of a release cycle
<tepsipakki> beuno: only for the development version, until a freeze
<pochu> but you can file a bug and request a sync, afaik
<beuno> pochu: that's why she wants to maintain it in Ubuntu, so she can add the diffs and manage bugs *in* Ubuntu too
<pochu> beuno: she can do that without maintain it :)
<minghua> beuno: if she wants to maintain the Ubuntu package herself, she needs to apply for a MOTU
<pochu> beuno: I'm not the maintainer of any ubuntu package, but I take care of some of them ;)
<beuno> (I'm with 3 DDs here in a conference and we're trying to figure out how to work together (Ubuntu and Debian)
<minghua> beuno: but as said, she doesn't need to become a MOTU to take care of her package
<tepsipakki> beuno: see the topic, there's an useful link
<beuno> is there a special process to become a MOTU already being a DD?
<minghua> beuno: just need a MOTU to acknowledge the changes she wants to make for the Ubuntu package, like syncing the new Debian version after the freeze
<beuno> minghua: is there a special process to become a MOTU already being a DD?
<pochu> beuno: afaik, being a DD helps a lot, but there's not a special process
<minghua> beuno: I don't think so, but I've not been very up to date about the procedure stuff recently
<beuno> any idea who can fill me in on some of these details?
<tepsipakki> beuno: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment
<pochu> and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuForDebianDevelopers
<beuno> I'm going to be part of a group to help integrate Ubuntu and Debian users over here  :D
<beuno> great, pochu, that link is what I'm looking for
<superm1> minghua, would you have a few moments to do a REVU?
<pochu> beuno: that's a good idea!
<beuno> pochu: I'll document whatever comes out of it  :D
<minghua> superm1: maybe, which package?
<superm1> mythbuntu-artwork-usplash.  its an artwork package based on kubuntu's artwork package: http://revu.tauware.de./details.py?upid=4988
<beuno> ok, bus leaves in 5'
<beuno> I'll be back  :D
<beuno> thanks pochu, minghua
<minghua> superm1: a quick question first: did you make it a native package intentionally?
<superm1> yes minghua 
<minghua> ok
<superm1> mythbuntu is going to be a ubuntu derivative, so i dont see this going into debian
<minghua> superm1: did you use any artwork from kubuntu?
<superm1> the throbbers
<minghua> as a base of your work, or otherwise
<minghua> superm1: are you the author of kubuntu artworks as well?
<superm1> Nope
<superm1> the author of the artwork done here isnt me either, but i am doing the package for him (as described in debian/copyright)
<minghua> superm1: I see
<minghua> superm1: I'll write comments
<superm1> k
<minghua> superm1: you have a few problems about licenses
<superm1> because of using kubuntu throbbers?
<minghua> well, quite complicated
<minghua> 1. the .c file is under GPL, different author
<superm1> k. :) i'll read the comments
<minghua> 2. using other people's artwork as the basis of your work, the author must give them credit per CC's requirement (from my understanding, the license says share-alike, I suppose attribution is implied)
<minghua> 3. I'm not even sure GPL and CC mixes well....
<superm1> I'll ask the author if he will be willing to license the artwork GPL instead then
<superm1> that would alleviate that issue
<minghua> superm1: comments added
<superm1> thanks a bunch minghua 
<minghua> superm1: no problem, keep up the good work.
<theBishop> is there a channel for PS3 support?
<tsmithe> #ubuntu-powerpc maybe?
<theBishop> lol, 8 members...
<Kmos> theBishop: better than nothing
<theBishop> that depends if A) it is the right channel B) anyone responds
<theBishop> :)
<Kmos> it's weekend and UDS
<Kmos> try tomorrow
#ubuntu-devel 2008-04-28
<StFS> Hello. I'm trying to figure out a way to create an ISO with a setup for a specific laptop type. I'd like the end user only to have to supply his username and password, everything else (network, xorg.conf etc) should be configured already. Can you point me towards some reading material?
<TheMuso> StFS: Have you considered installinv via OEM mode?
<TheMuso> installing
<StFS> TheMuso: hmm... not quite sure what you mean by that?
<TheMuso> StFS: You can install Ubuntu, and when it gets booted for the first time, it will ask the user information like their username, timezone, etc.
<TheMuso> StFS: I think you activate it by pressing F4 at the CD boot menu to choose OEM installer.
<TheMuso> WHich brings up a menu with that as one of the options.
<StFS> TheMuso: ok... that's pretty much what I had in mind... except it would be great if I could answer as many questions like that as I could... for example, the timezone would be the same for everyone
<StFS> TheMuso: ok... well I'll definately take a look at this :) thanks so much!
<TheMuso> You're welcome, hope it helps.
<StFS> oh I'm sure it will
<mohbana> how do i pack something in .deb?
<emma> Hi
<emma> Hi astro76
<emma> hm.
<Rigonn> Hello
<Rigonn> i need some help
<pitti> Good morning
<dholbach> good morning
<emgent> morning
<dholbach> hey thekorn
<dholbach> thekorn: are you planning to work on  five-a-day/gettext.applet  today? if not I'd look into fixing bug 220187 (comment 2)
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 220187 in five-a-day "add gettext support to the applet" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/220187
<thekorn> good morning dholbach,
<thekorn> no, I think I will not work on it for the next two or three days, so please go on:)
<dholbach> thekorn: ok great - will let you know how it goes
<pitti> Riddell, slangasek: can either of you please peer-review/ack my hardy-proposed hal upload? (in the queue already, and bug 25931)
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 25931 in hal "Failed to initalize HAL." [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/25931
<dholbach> hi pitti
 * pitti hugs dholbachq
<pitti> and dholbach, too
<dholbach> :)
<thekorn> dholbach, do you know why I don't get notification emails when you subscribe me to a five-a-day bugreport
<thekorn> hello pitti
<dholbach> thekorn: that's because of a LP bug :-/
<pitti> hey thekorn, wie gehts?
<thekorn> pitti, Alles super!
<thekorn> dholbach, I see
<thekorn> dholbach, recompiling files in /usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/fiveadayapplet/ fixes bug 222829, the .pyc files are old
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 222829 in five-a-day "5-a-day-applet crashed with AttributeError in do_tags_show()" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/222829
<thekorn> I don't know if this is a packaging issue and how to fix this
<dholbach> thekorn: that's really weird
<dholbach> doko: what do you think about the bug mentioned above?
<mdke> seb128: do you know anything about rarian? I wonder if it is in a fit state to replace scrollkeeper for intrepid?
<doko> thekorn, dholbach: can't find a fiveadayapplet directory
<seb128> mdke: upstream doesn't to be really active on it but the compat layer should be usuable instead of scrollkeeper, I didn't really try though
<dholbach> doko: you can run   bzr branch lp:five-a-day   to get the source - or check the five-a-day-applet binary package
<mdke> seb128: I'll have a chat with Don. Scrollkeeper is a real pain
<seb128> mdke: why? because you need to list locales?
<pitti> hey seb128
<seb128> guten tag pitti ;-)
<dholbach> thekorn: I merged your translation changes and did a huge bunch of changes but it doesn't quite work yet :)
<mdke> seb128: well, yes; but also because it takes a long time to do the update process for each package that uses it (ubuntu-docs takes several minutes). Also most of the crash reports I see for ubuntu-docs seem to be scrollkeeper related
<mdke> seb128: afaik yelp doesn't use scrollkeeper now, so I think it is superfluous
<seb128> mdke: right, there is one crasher but we have difficulties to track it, would require a valgrind log from somebody having the issue
<seb128> mdke: I'm not sure that the rarian compat tools are faster though
<mdke> seb128: I heard that rarian doesn't require -update to be run each time a package is installed; but I don't know enough about it to talk confidentialy on the subject :)
<mdke> seb128: perhaps I'll send him an email with copy to you, would that be ok?
<seb128> sure
<mdke> thanks
 * Hobbsee waves
<seb128> mdke: that's the goal, but all the upstream tarball always run scrollkeeper-update so I think there is still some changes required
<pitti> hey Hobbsee!
<seb128> mdke: I think the omf need to be changed to rarian indexes or something in the source
<Hobbsee> pitti
 * Hobbsee hugs pitti
<mdke> seb128: ok
<doko> thekorn: what to you mean by "old"?
<thekorn> doko, they are outdated, from the last version of the package
<mvo> pitti: should we milestone #32906 for 8.04.1? I've seen a bunch of reports that have it as a side effect
<doko> thekorn: are the timestamps older?
<thekorn> doko, let me check this with a fresh install of the package
<pitti> mvo: I've been meaning to look into that anyway, milestoned
<pitti> mvo: I just cannot reproduce it on my production systems, but it seems to work on a live CD
<mvo> pitti: ok, thanks
<doko> seb128: any reason for the assignment of #223449?
<seb128> doko: python segfault in the log
<thekorn> doko, the timestamp seems to be ok, http://paste.ubuntu.com/8466/
<seb128> doko: ah, I typed "python" as product, should have use python2.5 I guess, right?
<doko> seb128: did you look at ProcMaps?
<doko> thekorn: what does ls -lL say?
<seb128> doko: the guy ran apport on gnome-system-log apparently so the apport datas are for this one
<seb128> doko: which is not revelant since the issue is describe is gdesklet crashing due to a python segfault
<thekorn> doko, http://paste.ubuntu.com/8471/
<pitti> seb128: I'm a bit unsure how to further debug bug 211625; any idea?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 211625 in gnome-vfs2 "Disk mounter lists internal hard disk partitions" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/211625
<doko> thekorn: hmm, this looks good as well
<seb128> pitti: the applet has not been ported to gvfs, it's still using gnome-vfs, I would not bother spending efforts on it
<pitti> seb128: I'm just interested in how it's supposed to behave; showing internal partitions is not a bug per se IMHO (since you can mount them)
<seb128> pitti: that's weird though because neither gnome-vfs nor the applet really changed this cycle, maybe his fstab changed and stopped listing the partition or something
<emgent> heya tseliot
<tseliot> ï»¿emgent: hi ;)
<seb128> pitti: I'm not sure now, I didn't read the gnome-vfs code for a while, it was supposed to list volume which don't have an ignore property no?
<seb128> pitti: gnomevfs-ls computer: should list the same things
<pitti> seb128: ok, thanks; let's call it a feature for now :), I don't think it's actually wrong
<seb128> right
<davmor2> Hey guys I noticed something but I'm not sure if it's a bug or simply not implemented yet.  if you connect to a bluetooth device that has photo's (like most phones) you can't view the images.  However you can transfer them across and then view them.  Is this a gvfs issue or an obex one?
<amitk> ogra: could you make sure that cmpc is picking up the new kernel in the PPA?
<kristian42> Hi! I'm decided to get involved with tracking bugs in ubuntu. Unfortunately its more than 10 years since I touched C/C++. In the 10 years that have passed I have gotten addicted to IDE's (in java), and I need this for linux too. Any suggestions as to which ide to use?
<Robot101> kristian42: not necessarily a devel question, but take a look at eclipse w/ the C plugin, and anjuta maybe. if you're doing c#, monodevelop?
<kristian42> Robot101: Thanks. I'll bother you gous later.
<kristian42> Robot101: When I learn to type properly.
<ogra> amitk, oh, cool, did i386 build ? (i went to bed when lpia was there :) )
 * cjwatson runs the necessary Big Scary Commands to publish intrepid
<dholbach> yooohoo
<Hobbsee> argh!
<Hobbsee> it's going to break on you.
<emgent> :D
<cjwatson> no evidence of breakage so far, touch wood
<Ng> is that intrepid trepidation? ;)
<Hobbsee> hah
<Hobbsee> i guess it had it's share of breakage over the weekend.
<Hobbsee> pity
<cjwatson> ... what broke over the weekend?
<pitti> mvo: hm, bug 222182 -- isn't that supposed to have a DpkgTerminalLog attachment?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 222182 in apport "package apport 0.108 failed to install/upgrade: " [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/222182
<Hobbsee> cjwatson: when do people upload bits of the toolchain, which bits, and when, can be accepted?
<Hobbsee> cjwatson: oh, last weekend, sorry.  LP went down for 14+ hours.
<cjwatson> Hobbsee: I have warned doko already and he's ready to go, but note that I haven't yet contacted infinity to get buildds going
 * Hobbsee forgot that there's just been a weekend.
<cjwatson> so don't get too excited just yet :)
<cjwatson> ah
<Hobbsee> cjwatson: right.  kiko just wants me to accept some packages, to test if the bugs have actually been fixed.
 * calc holds finger over update button ;-)
<Hobbsee> calc: NO NEW OO.O FOR YOU!
<Hobbsee> :)
<calc> OOo 3.0 Beta, yea! ;-)
<cjwatson> accept> err, in what release?
 * Hobbsee beats calc with a big stick
<calc> if it is released on time it will be on wed
<Hobbsee> cjwatson: whichever.
<Hobbsee> cjwatson: i was assuming intrepid
<cjwatson> gcc-4.3 is likely to be first, but doko is more authoritative than I
<calc> of course then i start actually working on packaging which will probably take a little while
<cjwatson> there'll probably be an early base-files upload which is fairly safe
 * Hobbsee nods
<Hobbsee> it'll be accepting multiple uploads in tandem, i think
<Hobbsee> seeing as that was the problem lsat time
<cjwatson> it would be better to wait for that kind of test until the toolchain is sorted, I think
<doko> cjwatson: libffi, binutils, gcc-4.3, gcc-4.2, gcj-4.3, gcj-4.2, glibc, done
 * calc looked a bit at the load cycle mess over the weekend, but doesn't have anything conclusive yet
<doko> ahh, java-gcj-compat missing, and gcc-defaults
<cjwatson> so you mean simultaneously accepting >1 package through the web UI?
<cjwatson> doko: aha, thanks
<Hobbsee> cjwatson: perhaps.  the worst that will happen is LP times out, and someone else has to accept the package.
<Hobbsee> cjwatson: yes
<cjwatson> the toolchain probably needs to go in strict order, or at least it's often safer to do so
<calc> are we moving openjdk into main as well? 8-)
<pitti> mvo: is that log still present anywhere, so that I could ask for it?
<Hobbsee> cjwatson: oh, i thought bits of toolchain happened in tandem, in a strict order.
<cjwatson> so I wouldn't be comfortable with simultaneous accepts there, unless they're ones that doko says are OK to build simultaneously
<Hobbsee> fair enough
<Hobbsee> yeah, of course
<doko> Hobbsee: accept what?
<cjwatson> but we can leave the archive frozen for a bit after the toolchain's done, to allow testing
<Hobbsee> cjwatson: that would be good, thanks
<Hobbsee> doko: NEW CRACK!
<Hobbsee> doko: (packages for intrepid)
<cjwatson> calc: it's certainly a good possibility
<cjwatson> calc: (you're up early)
<mvo> pitti: yeah, that log should be available in /var/log/apt/term.log
<ln-> why is there a zero-width no-break space in the topic?
<pitti> mvo: ah, thanks
<Hobbsee> ln-: where?
<calc> cjwatson: couldn't sleep :\
 * calc thinks he managed to sleep ~ 1hr last night :\
<pitti> calc: ugh, why not?
<ln-> Hobbsee: in the very begin.
<cjwatson> does that help? I couldn't see where it was
<wgrant> .win 10
<wgrant> Damn.
<cjwatson> Keybuk: could you point merge-o-matic at intrepid, please? it will exist on archive.ubuntu.com after the next publisher run
<soren> Woo!
<emgent> :)
<cjwatson> Intrepid created, frozen for toolchain | /topic ï»¿Ubuntu 8.04 LTS released! | Development of Ubuntu (not support, not application development on Ubuntu) | #ubuntu for support and general discussion for dapper/ï»¿feisty/gutsy/hardyï»¿, #ubuntu+1 for intrepid | #ubuntu-motu for getting involved in development | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment | See #ubuntu-bugs for http://wiki.ubuntu.com/HelpingWithBugs
<cjwatson> oops
* cjwatson changed the topic of #ubuntu-devel to: Intrepid created, frozen for toolchain | ï»¿Ubuntu 8.04 LTS released! | Development of Ubuntu (not support, not application development on Ubuntu) | #ubuntu for support and general discussion for dapper/ï»¿feisty/gutsy/hardyï»¿, #ubuntu+1 for intrepid | #ubuntu-motu for getting involved in development | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment | See #ubuntu-bugs for http://wiki.ubuntu.com/HelpingWithBugs
 * soren goes to dist-upgrade :)
<soren> There. All done :)
<cjwatson> it'll 404 right now
<cjwatson> like I say, needs a publisher run to trigger the mirrors. :)
<pitti> cjwatson: will the publisher run in 6 minutes?
<ln-> there are still several zero-width spaces in the topic.
<cjwatson> pitti: as usual
 * pitti eagerly waits for all the -proposed changes to actually turn up
<cjwatson> ln-: where exactly?
<cjwatson> my client doesn't show them so it's tedious to check
<cjwatson> ln-: actually, you can change the topic yourself, why not just do it
<ln-> oh, i didn't notice there's no mode +t here.
* ln- changed the topic of #ubuntu-devel to: Intrepid created, frozen for toolchain | Ubuntu 8.04 LTS released! | Development of Ubuntu (not support, not dapper/feisty/gutsy/hardy, #ubuntu+1 for intrepid | #ubuntu-motu for getting involved in development | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment | See #ubuntu-bugs for http://wiki.ubuntu.com/HelpingWithBugs
<ln-> now the spaces are gone.
<soren> Er...
<soren> Yeah, and a lot of other stuff, too.
<cjwatson> that's as may be, but you deleted a big chunk
* cjwatson changed the topic of #ubuntu-devel to: Intrepid created, frozen for toolchain | Ubuntu 8.04 LTS released! | Development of Ubuntu (not support, not application development on Ubuntu) | #ubuntu for support and general discussion for dapper/feisty/gutsy/hardy, #ubuntu+1 for intrepid | #ubuntu-motu for getting involved in development | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment | See #ubuntu-bugs for http://wiki.ubuntu.com/HelpingWithBugs
<cjwatson> should be better now
<ln-> sorry, had to copy-paste manually because the spaces-or-whatever-characters were confusing irssi. missed a line.
<ln-> this is what happens when non-critical bugs are fixed.
<james_w> Keybuk: I'd love it if patches.ubuntu.com started updating again as well, I find it invaluable during merging. Thanks.
<pochu> cjwatson: hi, there's no intrepid-changes list created yet, will there be one once intrepid is opened so that uploads to intrepid are recorded there?
<pochu> cjwatson: nevermind, I missed it :/
<sistpoty|work> pitti: thanks for fixing hardy-proposed :)
<pochu> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/Intrepid-changes
<Ng> ./win 52
<Ng> gar
<cjwatson> (should work lower-case too)
<pitti> sistpoty|work: wasn't me, thank cprov; now the publisher actually needs to run, then we shuold be ready to go
<sistpoty|work> thanks cprov ^^ :)
<cjwatson> pochu: the -changes list is a prerequisite for getting the distroseries created properly in Launchpad, so it's always there first, FYI
<calc> pitti: sorry was away
<calc> pitti: family matters were bothering me which has since been mostly resolved :)
<calc> combined with the fact that i have been feeling ill for the past several days
<calc> not sure why i have been having trouble sleeping the past week though, before sat i wasn't feeling sick
<calc> maybe due to the weird hours getting ready for the release, heh
 * calc bbiab going to get breakfast
 * pitti hugs calc, all the best then!
<pitti> cprov: hm, publisher should long be done now, but http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/hardy-proposed/main/binary-i386/Packages.gz is still empty :(
<calc> yummy that was good :)
<pitti> cprov: argh, apparently pinging you helped -- after that very second it worked
<pitti> cprov: i. e. the indexes are now non-empty, but packages themselves are still 404
<cprov> pitti: in drescher ?
<pitti> cprov: but I guess that's just the normal mirroring delay (although they could really mirror /pool first, and then /dists)
<pitti> cprov: no, on archive.u.c.
<pitti> cprov: drescher was ok since Friday
<pitti> aah, it caught up now
<pitti> happy hardy-proposed upgrading, everyone!
<cprov> pitti: :)
<\sh> good bye edgy-changes , welcome intrepid-changes
<emgent> :)
<Hobbsee> slangasek: so, why is there no obvious way to get a dvd version of ubuntu?
<Mithrandir> Hobbsee: because bandwidth is expensive.
<Hobbsee> Mithrandir: i realise that, but i would have expected it to be listed in a corner somewhere, or something.
<Mithrandir> Hobbsee: or you could go for the alternative that we hate freedom.
<cjwatson> I think it goes with bug 122229; added a comment
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 122229 in ubuntu-cdimage "add pointers on cdimage.u.c to releases.u.c" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/122229
<cjwatson> (http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases/8.04/release/ FWIW)
<Hobbsee> cjwatson: ah, thanks
<_lemsx1_> I'm sure you guys are happy with the release of Hardy. I just wanted to say Thanks to all of you who make this distribution possible! Hopefully by now you are sober ;-)
<Hobbsee> never!
<Hobbsee> at least, for those who actually drink.
<ScottK> Doesn't really matter.  There's nothing I'll do drunk that I won't also do sober.
<_lemsx1_> good one! LOL ... well, after you get better, there is always work to be done ;-)
<_lemsx1_> ScottK: not even driving?
<ScottK> There are things I won't do drunk and there are things that I will do sober that I won't do drunk, but AFAIK there is nothing I'll do drunk that I won't also do sober.
<ScottK> This is a challenge to live up to sometimes.
<_lemsx1_> well, always make sure that you drink the finest and that you keep your livers healthy
<calc> do we ask users for disk labels when creating filesystems during install?
<calc> er not disk labels, but names for the filesystems
<cjwatson> calc: not by default, no
<calc> cjwatson: ok
<cjwatson> you can set them in the alternate installer if you work at it
<cjwatson> ubiquity doesn't expose UI for that at the moment
<calc> that might be useful in that it displays the label instead of the "XX.X GB Media" if you do label it
<calc> i noticed that and then saw reference to it in that install report on the mailing list from earlier today
<cjwatson> aye
<calc> of course that doesn't help the users who didn't label their windows partitions, but at least the linux ones will be good :)
<calc> synaptic doesn't remove users dotfiles does it?
<Amaranth> no
<calc> ok wanted to make sure before i told a user that
 * calc never uses synaptic
<ogra> packagemanagers generally dont do that :)
<Amaranth> If a package ever touches anything in ~ the packager needs to be shot :)
<ogra> ++
<mvo> calc: its just a fancy apt frontend, it behaves pretty much like apt
<calc> Amaranth: yep :)
<calc> mvo: thats what i thought :)
<cjwatson> I'd actually like there to be a standard way for a package to declare which dotfiles it creates, so that it could in theory be cleaned up, although that absolutely mustn't happen without explicit acknowledgement
<mvo> :)
<calc> mvo: a user was claiming a complete uninstall via synaptic would remove the dotfiles and so i told him it does not
<cjwatson> if it were in the control metadata then you could write a UI that did it
<Amaranth> I have wished a few times I could wipe out some compiz settings :)
<cjwatson> though it might have to declare things like gconf paths as well as simple $HOME-relative dotfiles
<mvo> Amaranth: indeed :)
<cjwatson> it would be very much preferable for it to be declarative rather than imperative though
 * calc wants the awesome crack of xdg dirs to be used :-)
<calc> then just rm -rf ~/.config
<cjwatson> aside from it being crack, that doesn't help when you only want to clean up configuration from certain packages, rather than blowing the whole lot away
<cjwatson> so only fulfils a very specific use case
 * ogra thinks ~/.config is just a lame way of hiding configs from your homedir
<cjwatson> I don't think most people want to blow away their mail configuration when their problem is just that OOo is misbehaving (for example)
<Keybuk> ogra: that's what the "." is for
<calc> cjwatson: it still helps in that only general config stuff would be under .config, eg things like huge .evolution dir would be more sanely split up
<seb128> Amaranth: I think we should get some user configuration cleaner for updates
<ogra> Keybuk, well, but it contains stuff that would otherwise sit in ~
<cjwatson> I have no objection to .cache or whatever it was, but (as argued before at length) I think .config is silly
<calc> so configuration pertinent to accounts would not be under .config
<ogra> Keybuk, it just moves them down one level
<seb128> calc: there is a blueprint about allowing renaming volumes in nautilus which would update the label
<seb128> calc: pitti didn't manage to work on that this cycle but maybe next one
<calc> cjwatson: actual mail account configuration would be considered data which wouldn't go under .config, but individual settings that aren't important (overall) for evolution would go under .config
<calc> seb128: ah ok :)
<cjwatson> calc: that's a bizarre definition of configuration
<seb128> upstream has also some discussion about allowing the customize the display name
<calc> seb128: that would be better than being in the installer anyway
<seb128> ie, having a field in the .mount for that
<cjwatson> "configuration is data, other stuff goes into .config" eh?
<ogra> heh
<calc> cjwatson: account specific configuration would be considered data, iirc it was discussed in the evolution xdg bug upstream already
<cjwatson> I think this just goes to show how broken the xdg home directory specification is
<calc> everything not specific to the way the account was setup would go under .config
<cjwatson> the problem is that the contrary viewpoint is hard to express in a specification because it amounts to "dotfiles are fine just the way they are, please leave them alone" which doesn't make for a good XDG spec ;-)
<calc> most apps configuration can be blow away without any long term consequence, blowing away email account setup information is different
<Keybuk> I don't even understand _why_ we need the xdg home directory specification
<cjwatson> it seems totally bizarre to me that configuration would be regarded as something you might want to blow away as a matter of routine
<cjwatson> we go to such lengths to preserve it
<calc> we didn't really need FHS either, but it made things a lot cleaner and easier to deal with
<calc> things like OOo still don't care about FHS (argh)
<Keybuk> calc: FHS documented existing practice
<calc> Keybuk: /srv ?
<Keybuk> whereas the XDG thingy invents something totally new and contrary
<calc> there are bits of FHS that were invented
<Keybuk> calc: 99% of the FHS concerns things like /usr
<ScottK> and Windows like (xdg)
<calc>  /srv being a prime example
<cjwatson> rm -rf .config is little different from rm -rf ~/.[A-Za-z]*; nothing in one's dotfiles is more valuable than configuration
<Keybuk> imagine if the FHS suddenly, one day, said we needed /Programs and /Libraries
<Keybuk> instead of /usr
<cjwatson> (cached data, for example, is less valuable)
<Keybuk> that's the level of change the XDG stuff introduces
<Keybuk> for less discernible benefit
<calc> cjwatson: all email in evolution is in a dotdir
<cjwatson> I think that is also a bug :-)
<calc> cjwatson: unless you use imap (like me)
<persia> (and a world-readable dotdir by default)
<cjwatson> my mail lives in ~/mail
<calc> Keybuk: it said we need lib32 on ia64 and lib64 on amd64, equally insane things ;-)
<Keybuk> calc: no, the LSB said that
<calc> oh yea i got the two confused, sorry
<cjwatson> the FHS makes it easier to share files among machines, at least in theory (hence the /usr/share thing)
<Keybuk> and I have quite negative feelings towards the LSB :)
<Keybuk> but I get told off for sharing them
<calc> ok :)
 * calc thinks we should get multiarch done and into LSB
<calc> cjwatson: though we have no arch indep configuration dir :\
<cjwatson> XDG homedir makes it impossible to NFS-share your home directory among machines, because if applications ever start gradually transitioning towards XDG homedir then each application in turn will break depending on relative versions of applications between operating systems
<cjwatson> calc: in the past, I have successfully shared home directories between wildly variant operating systems, including completely different variants of Unix and completely different architectures
<cjwatson> it really isn't difficult
<cjwatson> the only thing that required any work at all was .bashrc (for terminal setup) and a couple of C programs in ~/bin which could easily be dealt with by an ad-hoc architecture-dependent directory
<calc> ok
<cjwatson> as far as I can see, the XDG home directory specification was written by folks who had never done this or considered it valuable
<calc> applications do change their files around (esp KDE at least used to be like this) often enough that sharing between versions was hard
<cjwatson> and certainly there are some applications that are quite sensitive about the contents of /home, but it's easy enough to control those and generally you only run those on the machine that's running your X server and/or desktop environment
<cjwatson> most applications do not suffer from this problem, in my experience
<cjwatson> but XDG homedir proposes moving all their configuration files anyway, thus *forcing* them to break in order to comply, even if they've otherwise been stable for a decade
<cjwatson> if you're sharing a home directory, many of the applications you run on the machines other than the one hosting your desktop environment are in fact ones that have been stable for years
<cjwatson> I don't see KDE as an issue, because you don't ssh to that server over there and start a KDE program :)
<calc> heh :)
<cjwatson> but you do start a shell, a revision control tool, an editor, maybe a command-line mail client, etc., all of which have dotfiles
<cjwatson> so it probably doesn't matter if the desktop environments decide to move to .config (because as you say it was hard to share things like gconf anyway), but I think we need to oppose the whole operating system following suit
<calc> if they properly support upgrades it shouldn't be an issue(?)
<cjwatson> "they"?
<calc> where they use the old files if they exist otherwise create new ones in the xdg location?
<calc> they being whatever app transitions to xdg
<cjwatson> it is an issue because if you're sharing a home directory among lots of machines you do not upgrade them all at once
<cjwatson> usually it is completely infeasible to do so
<calc> assuming the file exists in the home dir it would not get recreated/removed unless the user deleted the dotfiles?
<cjwatson> now suddenly you have to keep two versions of the file in sync
<calc> there wouldn't be two versions of the file in the NFS homedir case, afaict
<cjwatson> why not?
<ogra> indeed you want your settings to be the same on all machines you mount your home on :)
<cjwatson> also, this is fairly complex code that you have to introduce into every application with a dotfile
<calc> old app uses old file location, new app sees old file location and uses that, doesn't write new file since it has no need
<cjwatson> more lines of code == more bugs
<ogra> calc, but both apps should have the same settings
<calc> it would at minimum have to move the file to be upgradable though, so not too much more code
<ogra> meaning that "new app" needs to maintain duplication
<calc> ogra: they would be using the same file so would be
<cjwatson> unacceptable new code
<cjwatson> seriously
<cjwatson> moving the file would break old versions of the application
<calc> cjwatson: code to check what path to use for the configuration, thats a couple lines at most
<ogra> calc, that doesnt guarantee that a setting i change in "new app" is used by "old app"
<cjwatson> calc: why put the effort in to add that code to thousands of different applications?
<calc> cjwatson: the moving bit would be assuming they would transition to xdg at all and decided not to support multiple versions using the same config file
<cjwatson> if you're talking about this at an operating system level, that's what's involved
<ogra> the new one needs to adjust the old settings in the dotfile as well as the xdg config to achieve that
<cjwatson> it's a completely unacceptable amount of work to invest across the board
<calc> cjwatson: i'm just talking about what it would take for an individual developer to port their own app, not doing at an os level
 * calc doesn't think OS people should be doing this work themselves
<calc> changing large amounts of code without upstream support for anything not just this is a bad idea, unless you want to maintain huge patches forever
<cjwatson> calc: people manage to introduce security bugs due to string concatenation in C; I see no reason why checking multiple file locations (involving querying an environment variable for the location and falling back to the default, then concatenating strings) wouldn't introduce bugs
<cjwatson> there has to be a serious benefit that's more than just aesthetic
<cjwatson> now, that cache directory tagging standard was good
<ScottK> So far the only benifit I've realized from the XDG changes is I have to reset a bunch of apps to point back to where I want them to point (where they were before).
<cjwatson> http://www.brynosaurus.com/cachedir/
<calc> oh btw do you happen to know if we are going to be supporting the new deb source formats soon?
<calc> apparently they now (or will soon?) support different source formats than just diff.gz
<cjwatson> I'd like to, but haven't spoken with the Soyuz guys yet
<cjwatson> I don't think we should dive in straight away though, they're still explicitly experimental
<calc> we probably need Soyuz support by the time lenny ships
<calc> since aiui dd's will be allowed to use them at that point
<ogra> for 9.04 then ?
<cjwatson> I don't think the Debian archive will permit them for lenny; have you heard something to the contrary?
<calc> cjwatson: lenny+1 which will be later this year(?)
<cjwatson> the Debian archive team aren't usually notably neophilic :)
<calc> well lenny releases later this year is what i mean, at which point i think dd's will be allowed to use the new format for lenny+1
<cjwatson> oh, I see
<calc> so if we sync from sid after lenny we will need to support the new format
<cjwatson> right
<cjwatson> I don't think the Soyuz changes are likely to be particularly hard
<cjwatson> though I suspect it would involve database changes
<calc> so we probably need to get soyuz people to get it working as soon as the new format is stable (if it isn't already)
<cjwatson> (there's an enum type in there that has .dsc, .diff.gz, etc.)
<cjwatson> I don't think it's stable yet, no
<cjwatson> (I wrote the 3.0 (bzr) format and have been vaguely keeping an eye on it)
<calc> ok
<cjwatson> though I know buxy is pushing 3.0 (quilt) pretty hard
<calc> so will there be multiple final formats (bzr/quilt/etc) or just one that will be picked?
 * calc hasn't read that much about it yet
<buxy> there's no answer for that yet
<buxy> it depends on ftpmasters
<buxy> ajt wanted to allow multiple formats (he's fond of the git one in particular) but he's no more ftpmasters
<calc> yea i saw that :-\
<buxy> I would prefer if we started by only allowing the quilt (which is really wig&pen enhanced) + native
<buxy> ones
<cjwatson> I'd obviously prefer to be able to use any of them (eventually) ;-)
<buxy> I would prefer to keep the .dsc as a snapshot of sources, but I'd like to have official centralized repositories that can be used to maintain packages
<calc> is there a page that explains how the new formats work?
<buxy> where we can release just by pointing to a tag or something like that
<buxy> calc: man dpkg-source with a recent dpkg-dev
<buxy> (1.14.17/18)
<buxy> http://people.debian.org/~hertzog/dpkg-source.html
<calc> ah hardy is too old
<cjwatson> buxy: certainly what we'd like to have in Ubuntu, by way of active importing of the world into bzr
<calc> thanks for the url
<calc> am i wrong in intrepeting format 3.0 as just allowing eg diff.lzma diff.bz2 and turning on the -I options for vcs?
<buxy> there's no .diff in 3.0
<calc> oh
<buxy> there's a debian tarball in 3.0 (quilt)
<calc> er 3.0 native i mean then
<calc> sorry dropped the native part
<calc> of native means debian native (eg 1.0 not 1.0-1)
<calc> s/of/oh/
<buxy> native is like native right now, a single tarball
<calc> ok i see :)
<buxy> but yes it's native like now except that you can use tar.bz2  and .tar.lzma
<buxy> and that it will ignore some files by default
<calc> so this component bit, why was it decided to extract them into subdirs based on name instead of just in the top level of the tree?
<calc> seems component orig's have been made less useful that way
<seb128> buxy: no diff means that you have to upload the whole source every time?
<buxy> I simply took the wig&pen specification for that part, but I don't see it as a big problem
<buxy> calc: what use case do you see?
<buxy> seb128: of course not, you upload only the debian tarball (ie the content of the debian directory)
<calc> well it probably couldn't be used for OOo anyway, but in OOo's case we have multiple tarballs that all extract into the same top level build dir
<cjwatson> seb128: it's a diff, just not a .diff ;-)
<seb128> ah :-)
<calc> currently we put them all in one .orig and then unpack them during build
<calc> i'm just not sure of what use cases having separate component origs that are named after the component is actually useful, but i'm sure there are at least use cases :)
<buxy> calc: what do they contain those tarballs? multiple directories each?
<calc> buxy: yes
<calc> OOo is gross don't worry about it too much ;-)
<calc> some of the tarballs unpack all over the place into existing dirs from other tarballs as well, eg the i18n one
<buxy> well, not many software use multiple tarballs, if the feature doesn't work for them, it's a bit sad :)
<calc> for git/bzr formats does that mean the tarball is the entire repository?
<calc> "The tarball is unpacked and then the VCS is used to checkout the current branch. "
<buxy> currently yes
<calc> wouldn't that make really HUGE orig's ?
<buxy> it depends on the software of course, it's one of the problems with those formats
 * calc imagines doing this with OOo and having terabyte orig files ;-)
<buxy> and the other problem is that you have no .orig and thus reupload everything each time
<calc> i'm not sure if the exceedingly large size of the bzr/git tarballs would make them ever really a good idea
 * calc probably is missing something though
<jdong> calc: it probably shouldn't have to be completely transferred each time
<jdong> calc: and git/bzr both are working on "partial history horizons"
<buxy> until we have "shallow clones" in bzr (like in git)
<Mithrandir> jdong: nuking history in git is simple enough.
<jdong> calc: not to mention at some times the git/bzr storage format for complete history is not much larger than a full checkout
<buxy> jdong: but nobody implemented the code in dpkg to generate such partial repositories yet
<calc> jdong: ah very shallow history would be useful yea :)
<sistpoty|work> any archive admin around, who could copy xmms-crossfade to hardy-updates from hardy-proposed (bug #208666)?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 208666 in xmms-crossfade "audacious crashed with SIGSEGV in g_type_check_instance_cast()" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/208666
<xhaker> jdong: updates on transmission? it seems you haven't found the time to upload the menu fix
<hwilde> Keybuk, time for a udev question?
<Keybuk> hwilde: of course?
<hwilde> Keybuk, can I do udevs for the usb inputs?  the ttyUSB?  switches every reboot    http://pastebin.com/m750bddea
<hwilde> it's like udevinfo doesn't get enough info to make distinct rules
<Keybuk> persistent names?
<Keybuk> yeah you could use udev to do that
<hwilde> on reboot it re-enumerates /dev/ttyUSB0 through USB6 to different places
<hwilde> udevinfo only sees USB_BUS and USB_DEV and this is not persistent
<Keybuk> what does udevinfo -a -n ttyUSB0 give you?
<Keybuk> (nopaste)
<hwilde> the way I do it now is I run readlink -fn and then I parse the physical mapping
<DB42> will mono 1.9.1 get into ubuntu 8.04 ? is so, when, if not, why ?
<Keybuk> DB42: ubuntu 8.04 is released already
<persia> How does udev differentiate equipment with the same vendor:model string and same characteristics?
<Keybuk> persia: example?
<DB42> Keybuk: so it's a version freeze till 8.10 ?
<Keybuk> DB42: exactly
<persia> Keybuk: Two identical serial converters.
<DB42> that totally sux :(
<Keybuk> persia: probably no way to distinguish them then
<hwilde> persia, Keybuk, yeah check my pastebin that is my question I guess
<persia> Keybuk: Thanks for the confirmation.
<Keybuk> hwilde: can you provide the output of that command?
<Keybuk> DB42: that's the _whole_point_of a release?
<hwilde> Keybuk, it doesn't work are you sure that is th right syntax
<Keybuk> DB42: it represents the end of work on a particular version, and when we begin on the next
<Keybuk> hwilde: what does it say?
<hwilde> Keybuk, attribute walk on device chain needs path(-p) specified
<DB42> will there be a backport or so ?
<Keybuk> hwilde: ? which version of udev/ubuntu?
<Keybuk> DB42: maybe, if you ask someone on the backports team
<persia> hwilde: It worked for my serial device.  Are you sure you typed `udevinfo -a -n ttyUSB0`?
<hwilde> ah this is an older system
<hwilde> grub defualt :/
<Keybuk> hwilde: try -a -p /class/tty/ttyUSB0 instead
<hwilde> Keybuk, http://pastebin.com/m5bb726d6
<Keybuk> hwilde: a rule to match that exact device and call it "beetroot" would look like:
<Keybuk>   SUBSYSTEM=="tty", SUBSYSTEM=="usb", SYSFS{serial}=="FTDD9V1Q", SYMLINK+="beetroot"
<Keybuk> or on a modern system:
<Keybuk>   SUBSYSTEM=="tty", SUBSYSTEMS=="usb", ATTRS{serial}=="FTDD9V1Q", SYMLINK+="beetroot"
<hwilde> oooo unique sysfs
<hwilde> hold on i'm rebooting into 8.04
<hwilde>   /devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:0f.5/usb2/2-2/2-2.1/  [2-2.1:1.0]  /ttyUSB0     I was doing it by parsing the readlink part in [brackets] to get the physical mapping, then making symlinks :)
<hwilde> Keybuk, here is "udevinfo -a -n ttyUSB0-3" on 8.04   http://pastebin.com/m40b01e94
<hwilde> ATTRS{serial} are all the same  ATTRS{serial}=="0000:00:0f.4"
<hwilde> that's the usb hub address
<Keybuk> right
<Keybuk> there's no serial number on that one
<Keybuk> so just start from the top down adding attributes until you're happy
<Keybuk> you'll want one from the top since you want to match the ttyUSBx device
<Keybuk>     SUBSYSTEM=="tty"
<hwilde> it is the same device tho
<hwilde> [   93.464265] usb 1-1: FTDI USB Serial Device converter now attached to ttyUSB0
<Keybuk> skip down a few until you get to the actual usb device (ones in the usb subsystem)
<Keybuk> #
<Keybuk>     ATTRS{idVendor}=="0403"
<Keybuk> #
<Keybuk>     ATTRS{idProduct}=="6010"
<Keybuk> #
<Keybuk> those are usually good
<Keybuk> yeah you're looking at the serial of the usb hub
<Keybuk> for whatever reason, that device doesn't have a serial number or it isn't being picked up
<Keybuk> hmm
<Keybuk> your main problem is going to be that you have three identical ftdi's :p
<hwilde> yes
<hwilde> here is all 6
<hwilde> http://pastebin.com/m388fc489
<ogra> seb128, fyi http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=530379
<ubotu> Gnome bug 530379 in gio "Inaccessible mount points appear on other user's desktops" [Normal,Unconfirmed]
<seb128> ogra: thanks
<Keybuk> ttyUSB0 and ttyUSB1 are the same _physical_ device?
<ogra> (i was just hunted down by warren for it)
<ogra> seb128, it seems josselin never forwarded the old patch for gnome-vfs :(
<hwilde> Keybuk, nope there are six distinct devices
<ogra> else it would have taken into account before already
<Keybuk> hwilde: I'm not sure I believe you :p
<Keybuk> #
<hwilde> Keybuk, hold I will show you the readlinks... that's the only way I am parsing the phsyical inputs
<Keybuk>     KERNELS=="1-1:1.0"
<Keybuk> #
<Keybuk>     ATTRS{bInterfaceNumber}=="00"
<Keybuk> (^ ttyUSB0)
<seb128> ogra: what gnomevfs is doing would not have made a difference on gvfs, they didn't try to copy gnomevfs
<Keybuk> #
<Keybuk>     KERNELS=="1-1:1.1"
<Keybuk> #
<Keybuk>     ATTRS{bInterfaceNumber}=="01"
<Keybuk> (^ ttyUSB1)
<Keybuk> that to me says one device, with two interfaces ;)
<ogra> seb128, but they try to get on par with features
<hwilde> well yeah, that one is the hub
<hwilde> there are two hubs
<seb128> ogra: no, they try to fix all the issues they can
<ogra> if it would have been fixed in gnome-vfs chances would have been greater that they implemented it from the begining
<Keybuk> hwilde: hub with a USB serial converter?
<seb128> ogra: might be, anyway that's a detail
<ogra> yeah
<ogra> they just ranted at me thyt they didnt know about it
<ogra> (davidz specifically)
<hwilde> Keybuk, hold on hold on I can only pastebin so fast
<hwilde> Keybuk, http://pastebin.com/m56069e04
<hwilde> Keybuk, see the readlink outputs?  and the MAP= part?  That much is consistent so I parse it in rc.local on boot.  but the ttyUSB? are re-assigned randomly every reboot
<hwilde> Keybuk, so back to my original question, can I use udev to do this?  It seems like udev doesn't get enough (unique) info to make rules
<seb128> ogra: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=352381, they should read bugzilla
<ubotu> Gnome bug 352381 in Volume and drive handling "do not show inaccessible volumes" [Normal,Unconfirmed]
<hwilde> or maybe somebody understand how the ttyUSB? are enumerated and I could fix that part ?
<Keybuk> hwilde: right, those should be consistent
<Keybuk> since that's the USB tree
<ogra> seb128, yeah, just noticed you had duplicated
<Keybuk> 6 hanging off one hub
<ogra> heh
<Keybuk> 1 on the other hub
<hwilde> Keybuk, yes it's disgusting...
<Keybuk> still looks like you have four physical devices there
<hwilde> Keybuk, here is one with 7 http://pastebin.com/m750bddea
<seb128> ogra: I also added a comment to point to the gnome-vfs bug
<ogra> seb128, thanks, youre a hero
<seb128> np
<Keybuk> hwilde: that's the same system?
<seb128> ogra: and if you davidz online tell him that the gnome-vfs patch is in bugzilla for some years
<Keybuk> looks like you just added another device on the second hub
<hwilde> Keybuk, similar but not identical...
<hwilde> Keybuk, same idea
<Keybuk> hwilde: match on the kernel name then
<Keybuk>     KERNELS=="1-1:1.0"
<ogra> seb128, i'm proxying through warren (from which i hear once a week at least that ubuntu never sends stuff upstream) thanks for giving me ammo :)
<xhaker> jdong: I'm doing a merge from debian unstable, they use quilt in the packaging now.
<seb128> ogra: yeah, they like to complain about that
<hwilde> Keybuk, ATTRS{serial} plus the KERNELS woudl basically give me the mapping "mastermodule" "0000:00:0f.4/.*/1-3:1.0"
<ogra> seb128, which is quite funny in #ltsp ... since they just steal all my stuff into fc9
<hwilde> Keybuk, should I make this 50 because it's user defined or 60 because i'm making symlinks
<Keybuk> whichever suits your fancy
<Keybuk> hwilde: right
<Keybuk> PCI name of the USB bus will be constant given no hardware change (the 0000: bit)
<Keybuk> and the USB device name will be constant given no recabling
<seb128> pitti: when will you update the language packs in hardy?
<hwilde> Keybuk, so in this example http://pastebin.com/m56069e04, to match     "laser" "0000:00:0f.5/.*/2-2.2:1.0"   it would be
<hwilde> Keybuk,    SUBSYSTEM=="tty", SUBSYSTEM=="usb",  KERNELS=="2-2:1.0",    ATTRS{serial}=="0000:00:0f.4"
<hwilde> SYMLINK+="laser"
<hwilde> f.4/f.5  typo
<Keybuk> SUBSYSTEMS on the second one
<Keybuk> actually
<hwilde> mundane detail :)
<Keybuk> are you writing this rule for 8.04
<Keybuk> or some other version?
<Keybuk> no, VERY IMPORTANT detail
<hwilde> not an office space fan I see
<hwilde> yes that was for the old pastebin
<Keybuk> not sure I know what the rule for non-8.04 would look like
<Keybuk> something like that though, yes
<jdong> xhaker: (1) Cool that they use quilt, I will pull that in then (2) I'm not core-dev so I can't upload packaging of transmission anyway
<hwilde> well I can still get   SYSFS{serial}=="0000:00:0f.5"
<jdong> xhaker: I put the debdiff on the bug report in plenty of time to release with the proper teams subscribed and it failed to be noticed
<hwilde> but it doesn't have the other half
<jdong> I'm afraid at the time I did all that was in my ability to do :(
<Keybuk> hwilde: don't use {serial} like that
<Keybuk> use KERNELS
<Keybuk>   SUBSYSTEM=="tty", SUBSYSTEMS=="usb", KERNELS=="1-1:1.0", KERNELS=="0000:00:0f.4", SYMLINK+="beetroot"
<hwilde> Keybuk, ok in this example which is 8.04  http://pastebin.com/m56069e04    SUBSYSTEM=="tty",  SUBSYSTEMS=="usb",  KERNELS=="1-1:1.0",  ATTRS{serial}=="0000:00:0f.4"
<hwilde> Keybuk, in this example which is 7.04 http://pastebin.com/m5bb726d6      SUBSYSTEM=="tty"   SYSFS{serial}=="0000:00:0f.5"     but I don't see how to get the last part?  I have to go through every machine and use unique SYSFS{serial}=="FTDW5K4C"  ?
<Keybuk> hwilde: replace ATTRS{serial} in the last part with KERNEL
<Keybuk> KERNELS, sorry
<hwilde> oh ok then I can just use ID=="2-2.2:1.0"
<hwilde> Keybuk,  8.04  http://pastebin.com/m56069e04    SUBSYSTEM=="tty",  SUBSYSTEMS=="usb",  KERNELS=="1-1:1.0",  KERNELS=="0000:00:0f.4"
<hwilde> Keybuk,  7.04 http://pastebin.com/m5bb726d6      SUBSYSTEM=="tty"   SYSFS{serial}=="0000:00:0f.5",  ID=="2-2.2:1.0"
<Keybuk> again, replace SYSFS{serial} with ID in that last one
<hwilde> what's the difference ?
<pitti> seb128: not sure; next week maybe? too soon doesn't make sense
<hwilde> Keybuk,  7.04 http://pastebin.com/m5bb726d6      SUBSYSTEM=="tty"   ID=="0000:00:0f.5",  ID=="2-2.2:1.0"
<Keybuk> right
<hwilde> that's ok without SUBSYSTEMS=="usb"   ?
<Keybuk> yeah
<Keybuk> I'd still stick BUS=="usb" in there
<Keybuk> for safet
<seb128> pitti: ok, that's because of bug #197224, nautilus crashing in spanish locale when trying to duplicate a file or when you get a file conflict due to bad translations
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 197224 in language-pack-gnome-es "nautilus crashed with SIGSEGV in g_file_query_info()" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/197224
<hwilde> Keybuk,  7.04 http://pastebin.com/m5bb726d6      SUBSYSTEM=="tty",  BUS=="usb", ID=="0000:00:0f.5",  ID=="2-2.2:1.0"
<pitti> seb128: tomorrow we should get daily packages in the PPA, which should be tested for that bug
<pitti> seb128: (today's failed to build, I fixed that)
<seb128> pitti: ok, thanks
<Keybuk> hwilde: yup
<pitti> seb128: and I'd wait until we fixed the Firefox translations (currently discussing with asac)
<seb128> pitti: is that still your ppa or do you have a translations one now?
<Keybuk> hwilde: you see that all you've done is pick lines from the udevinfo output
<pitti> seb128: it has been ~ubuntu-langpack PPA for quite a while
<seb128> pitti: otherwise maybe we can consider a manual sru for the spanish gnome language pack maybe?
<pitti> seb128: if the daily one is tested successfully, we can copy just that, instead of the entire lot
<pitti> (easier, IMHO)
<hwilde> Keybuk,  umm all YOU did was pick lines from udevinfo :)
<seb128> pitti: ok, thanks
<Keybuk> hwilde: yes, but you can now pick the same lines for other devices ;)
<hwilde> Keybuk, yes I can associate lol
<hwilde> Keybuk, my serial finder script works, i'm sure I can handle doing it the *right* way now
<Keybuk> hwilde: the reason I'm shying away from that {serial} thing is that I suspect it's a bug it's there at all ;)
<hwilde> fair enough
<Keybuk> that should be the hardware serial number
<Keybuk> not the PCI ID :p
<hwilde> Keybuk, I have 174 systems to test this on... i'll get back to you with the results
<hwilde> Keybuk, just to be clear... the symlink is created like /dev/beetroot   right ?
<Keybuk> hwilde: right
<hwilde> Keybuk, could I change it to SYMLINK+="usb_serial/beetroot"  and it would make /dev/usb_serial/beetroot?  my programs are looking there already
<Keybuk> yes
<Keybuk> assumedly your programs aren't looking for beetroot though ;)
<mathiaz> seb128: do we usually ship the latest gnome version in Beta ?
<rod0009> bryce
<rod0009> you there?
<jdong> bryce: I've been working with rod0009 for a while on diagnosing an intel driver issue
<jdong> bryce: no DRI devices seem to be created for his GMA950
<hwilde> Keybuk, can I just make a new /etc/udev/rules.d/61-beetroot.rules     and it will run automagically?  I can't find any reference to what runs these
<jdong> all config looks right
<jdong> bryce: possibly manifestation of bug 204762
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 204762 in linux "[Hardy] No DRI with Intel GMA 950 (aka 945GM)" [Unknown,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/204762
<rod0009> :-$
<rod0009> yeah all he said
<rod0009> ^^
<bryce> heya
<rod0009> hey
 * jdong watches suspensefully as our xserver-xorg-video-intel deity does his magic
<rod0009> lol
<hwilde> demideity
<bryce> rod0009: can you post your Xorg.0.log and xorg.conf someplace?
<jdong> bryce: http://pastebin.ca/1000561 xorg.0.log
<Keybuk> hwilde: it will be used, yes
<Keybuk> (next time the devices are inserted)
<Keybuk> if you want to force them, run udevplug/udevtrigger/udevadm trigger
<hwilde> nice
<jdong> bryce: line 647 catches my eye, /dev/dri/* is empty
<hwilde> what about the whitespace, does it have to be tab before SYMLINK
<rod0009> http://pastebin.ca/1000556 there is the xorg.conf
<bryce> ok xorg.conf looks good... still reviewing log
<rod0009> sure take your time :)
<bryce> hmm, well one thought is that if those devices are missing, it may be a kernel problem
<bryce> I'm fairly sure xorg doesn't create anything under /dev...  I think that's all kernel business
<rod0009> uhm what should ido?
<jdong> bryce: see the bug I referenced, it seems relevant. Linked there is an upstream  linus-2.6 git changset for the DRM subsystem
<jdong> http://git.kernel.org/?p=linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux-2.6.git;a=commit;h=3bf48468fe84468a148e4f19465e0a725c0f977b
<jdong> that commit
<seb128> mathiaz: what do you mean in beta? we ship the current unstable GNOME as soon as it's available during the unstable cycle and then the stable one and updates
<lool> doko: Hey, openjdk-6-jre-headless seems broken on lpia; /usr/lib/jvm/java-6-openjdk/bin/java: error while loading shared libraries: libjli.so: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
<hwilde> Keybuk, ah udev is freakin beautiful!!!  I can take my script out of rc.local ahahahaahahaaa
<lool> doko: I think you specialized these dirs for amd64/i386; under lpia, it sees i386
<seb128> mathiaz: hardy beta had 2.22.0 and hardy has 2.22.1
<lool> doko: Do you want a bug?
<bryce> jdong: yeah that looks on the right track
<jdong> bryce: with that said I think fix released is the wrong status for the Ubuntu bug, should be reassigned to kernel and on the queue for the next kernel update
<bryce> ogasawara_: you about?
<jdong> rod0009: roughly stated, the kernel module responsible for 3D acceleration doesn't know about your flavor of the GMA950 chip
<ogasawara_> bryce: yah, what's up
<jdong> rod0009: we need to pull in a kernel change that introduces support for your card
<rod0009> sounds ugly
<rod0009> pulling stuff around
<jdong> rod0009: can you pastebin a lspci -vvv?
<rod0009> sure all will do all u want
<rod0009> i*
<bryce> ogasawara_: bug 204762 has been marked fixed, but I think there may still be work to do in the kernel to solve it
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 204762 in linux "[Hardy] No DRI with Intel GMA 950 (aka 945GM)" [Unknown,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/204762
<doko> lool: don't think so, the libjli.so not found thing seems to be something else, never did see this myself.
<bryce> ogasawara_: the fix was identified and one guy confirmed it, however jdong and rod0009 are having the same problem still
<doko> is this a live CD?
<rod0009> jdong wheres that file
<lool> doko: Happens during postinst
<lool> doko: No, on a live system
<jdong> rod0009: it's a command
<lool> doko: NB: I do have the lib in this package though openjdk-6-jre-headless: /usr/lib/jvm/java-6-openjdk/jre/lib/i386/jli/libjli.so
 * bryce rereads bug
<bryce> ohhh, got it - it's marked fixed upstream now, but the patch hasn't been applied to Ubuntu
<rod0009> like this? rodrigo@rodrigo-laptop:~$ lspci-vvv
<rod0009> bash: lspci-vvv: orden no encontrada
<jdong> rod0009: space
<rod0009> ok will bin paste
<bryce> ogasawara_: so I think this one may be an easy bug - if you can get the kernel team to incorporate that patch, it should solve it
<lool> doko: + /usr/lib/jvm/java-6-openjdk/bin/java -client -Xshare:dump
<jdong> rod0009: nvm I got it.
<lool> Is what fails
<jdong> from his Xorg.0.log:
<jdong> #
<jdong> (II) PCI: 00:02:0: chip 8086,27ae card 103c,30d5 rev 03 class 03,00,00 hdr 80
<jdong> 0x27AE is the ID we need
<jdong> and it *exactly* the ID that git changeset http://git.kernel.org/?p=linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux-2.6.git;a=blobdiff;f=drivers/char/drm/i915_drv.h;h=675d88bda066312f5092a8e9b5443b31e76910d4;hp=c10d128e34dbd08beb949eef706d3ab11cee3a71;hb=3bf48468fe84468a148e4f19465e0a725c0f977b;hpb=164fc5dcd6a1026fc713f5c63fad899aa484888c adds.
<ogasawara_> bryce: sure, I'll milestone it for 8.04.1
<jdong> ogasawara_: thanks, you rock! :)
<bryce> ogasawara_: excellent thanks
<ogasawara_> jdong: care to post a quick comment to the lp bug report
<jdong> rod0009: I'd recommend to subscribe to that Ubuntu bug for e-mail updates
<jdong> ogasawara_: will do
<doko> lool: how much memory do you have?
<lool> MemTotal:      1025840 kB
<doko> +s swap
<doko> and FreeMem?
<lool> doko: -/+ buffers/cache:     211812     814028
<rod0009> sowhat i should do now guys
<lool> So 800 MB
<doko> lool: can you rerun this without directing the output to /dev/null?
<jdong> rod0009: unfortunately at this time, wait for a kernel update or see if any kernel folks would be kind enough to spin a PPA kernel for you
<mathiaz> seb128: nv - I've found the answer
<rod0009> what is a ppaÂ¿?
<jdong> rod0009: an APT repository system hosted on Launchpad
<rod0009> :'(
<rod0009> how long does the kernel updates take?
<lool> doko: Same thing
<lool> doko: You have IPv6?
<lool> doko: I can give you access to the device
<jdong> rod0009: well the 8.04.1 release is scheduled early june AFAIK
<rod0009> oh so theres no way im getting visual effects lol
<jdong> rod0009: unless you rebuild a kernel with that patch
<rod0009> i see
<rod0009> bad luck
<seb128> jdong: early july rather
<jdong> rod0009: unfortunately that's not something I have the time to do right now for you
<rod0009> maybe i should try a older version?
<seb128> jdong: or that's what the wiki says, you might have better informations ;-)
<jdong> rod0009: but if you catch me some other day I might feel in the mood..
<rod0009> 7.0?
<jdong> seb128: I heard June today, I never checked myself :D
<rod0009> jdong and if i change to 7.0?
<rod0009> would it be fixed?
<jdong> rod0009: trying 7.10 might be worth your time
<rod0009> uhm
<jdong> rod0009: I recall reading that this is a regression from our last release
<jdong> "I dont know where the problem is, because in 7.10 it was allright."
<jdong> rod0009: yeah; confirmed, it will work in the Gutsy Gibbon release
<rod0009> can i damage any hardware working like this?
<rod0009> i dont feel like formating again
<jdong> rod0009: no
<jdong> rod0009: you just lack the ability to use 3D acceleration until this bug is fixed in Hardy
<jdong> rod0009: people have lived through worse handicaps ;-)
<rod0009> lol
<rod0009> this only happens to me lol
<rod0009> me and my luck
<lool> doko: Hmm I recall StevenK changed something with our unionfs for java now
<lool> StevenK: Hey, is your ume-config-common change for squashfs related to the bug I'm seeing?
<lool> StevenK: /usr/lib/jvm/java-6-openjdk/bin/java: error while loading shared libraries: libjli.so: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
<ted1> How could a python program segfault?
<mathiaz> seb128: gah - there are 51 pages on the ubuntuforums thread "HOWTO: Setup Samba peer-to-peer with Windows"
<persia> ted1: Any of a segfault in the underlying library, in python, or the program trying to be lower level than it ought.
<mathiaz> seb128: actually - 58 pages
<ted1> persia: Hmm, that's not good.  I'm using d-feet, which is basically DBUS and GTK+... not good libraries to have problems.
<Mithrandir> the python bindings might be busted too
<persia> By "segfault in the underlying library", I don't mean to imply a bug.  It may be that you're passing a function by reference as a callback that doesn't meet the needs of the callback in some way, etc
<lamont> ubuntu sighting: http://xkcd.com/416/
<ompaul> Mithrandir http://xkcd.com/413/  you said python   - you can import fix non? ;-)
<Mithrandir> heh
<ion_> from __future__ import ruby
<r1ddl3r> Hello, i need to ask a question about serial I/O on Ubutu
<r1ddl3r> can any1 help ?
<jdong> this isn't the channel to ask random development questions
<jdong> serial IO on Ubuntu is furthemore no different than doing so on any Linux OS
<r1ddl3r> well oke, but i havent used I/O on Linux generaly, so i simply ask if there is some1 here to answer some of my questions or not
<r1ddl3r> if i'm on the wrong channel sry
<jdong> r1ddl3r: as I said, that's unfortunately off topic for this channel .This channel is for Ubuntu developers to coordinate development activity pertaining to Ubuntu itself
<r1ddl3r> oh kk, can you point me to some other channel?
<r1ddl3r> anyway i get the point, farewell people
<seb128> mathiaz: what is that about?
<dneary> Hi
<dneary> mjg59: About?
<tzafrir> hi, any idea where can I find a reference to the chane SYSFS -> ATTR in udev rules?
<tzafrir> Just got bitten by it, and found nothing about it in the changelogs
<dneary> I have a major problem with my upgraded laptop - resume doesn't work
<dneary> I suspend fine, but the screen doesn't wake up when I resume
<dneary> I'd love to know what causes it, and how to fix it
<dneary> Worked fine with 7.10 and 7.04 (in fact, 7.04 was when it worked best)
<ted1> dneary: Unfortunately things changed between all of those releases :)
<dneary> ted1: Indeed
<ted1> dneary: It's probably that you need some quirks that aren't configured for your laptop now.
<dneary> I'll admit, some stuff got fixed too
<dneary> But I've tried to stay as close as possible to vanilla
<ted1> dneary: Do you know if there is an fdi file for your laptop?  (/usr/share/hal/fdi)
<dneary> With 7.04 (or was it 6.10?) I had to install xrandr and get the xrandr applet working to give presentations, in 7.10 I had to reboot to windows :(
<dneary> ted1: I'll look
<dneary> ted1: It's a directory
<ted1> dneary: yes, there are a bunch of files in that hierarchy.  Probably most interesting is ./information/*/*video-quirk*
<dneary> A DTD file and three subdirectories, information, policy, preprobe
<dneary> OK - 10freedesktop/*video-quirk
<dneary> My model is in there
<dneary> vbe_post and vbemode_restore are set to true
<ted1> Hmm, then probably the quirks are wrong?
<ted1> You can try removing your model, which goes to a default set.
<ted1> Which is probably relatively close to what happened in previous releases.
<ted1> It's unfortunately a little bit of trial and error right now (atleast at the level I understand it)
<dneary> ted1: OK, thanks
<dneary> I do know someone with the same model, maybe he's had more luch
<dneary> luck, even
<ted1> dneary: Steal his FDI file ;)
 * ted1 can't wait for the day when laptop manufactures ship freedesktop.org their FDI files at design time.
<dneary> ted1: At least now I know what the Magic File is
<mjg59> dneary: Hi
<Keybuk> ted1: I can't wait for the day that udev uses FDI files
<dneary> mjg59: Hi there
<dneary> Resume doesn't work for me, and I don't know how to find out what's wrong, or fix it :(
<dneary> You wouldn't happen to have a Latitude D420 lying around the house, would you?
<mjg59> dneary: Not a 420, nope
<mjg59> dneary: But running what?
<ScottK> dneary: I have a 430 that works fine (with Kubuntu anyway).
<dneary> 8.04, since this afternoon
<ted1> Keybuk: I'm transferring my e-mail over to being embedded in FDI files ;)
<mjg59> dneary: What graphics chipset?
<dneary> Intel
<ted1> Joking aside, they are a good thing though.
<dneary> i915
<dneary> ScottK: This worked fine before upgrading :}
<dneary> I suspect I will end up doing a fresh install, but I don't wanna...
<mjg59> dneary: Any chance you can test from the livecd?
 * ScottK isn't sure what the difference between a 420 and a 430 is, but it might be something to look into.
<dneary> don't have one
<dneary> Could start downloading it
<dneary> Suspend/resume works from the livecd?
<\sh> guys, the mails on post-hardy-changes ;) is it only toolchain uploads to get things for intrepid in order, or are the archives really open ?
<mjg59> dneary: To RAM should do, yeah
<mjg59> \sh: Topic
<dneary> mjg59: OK - will try that tomorrow. Download underway
<\sh> mjg59, oh well, topic handling in xchat is evil...it shows the end, but not the beginning when you join ;)
<dneary> Your servers are getting pretty heavily battered
<dneary> \sh: I see it all on xchat-gnome
<mjg59> dneary: Thans
<dneary> That contact problem's really annoying too
<\sh> dneary, looks like I have to resize gnome to a non-readable-fontset-for-blind-people-like-me :)
<dneary> Changing your schema between releases without a migration path... bold developers
<dneary> I see the start with an expander
<dneary> So let's say it works on the LiveCD, what can I do after that?
<mario_limonciell> why are both acpi-support and pm-utils present on hardy?  are both actually used?
<mario_limonciell> or more particularly;  why is the suspend and resume support in acpi-support still present, the other scripts for ACPI stuff clearly are still necessary
<scorcher7> Hi, over the weekend I posted a patch to launchpad bug #173772 in atomix. The wiki said to come here and get a dev. to review the patch.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 173772 in atomix "about dialog won't close" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/173772
<scorcher7> This is the first patch I have ever written. Is there someone who can help me?
<scorcher7> It is a really simple bug/patch.
<johanbr> mario_limonciell: The suspend/resume scripts in acpi-support don't seem to be used at all.
<mario_limonciell> johanbr, then that definitely makes for confusion
<mario_limonciell> i personally think they shouldn't have been shipped then
<johanbr> I noticed when I tried to make some customizations and nothing seemed to happen. :)
<mario_limonciell> mjg59, could you comment on them at all?  Is there a reason that they are still around rather than sticking to pm-utils?
<mario_limonciell> johanbr, so you ended up customizing in /etc/pm instead then i take it?
<johanbr> mario_limonciell: Well, /usr/lib/pm-utils .
<mario_limonciell> johanbr, well i suppose it depends on whether you are intending to make end system customizations or distro customizations.  /etc/pm seems like the better place to be putting them
<johanbr> Anyway, got to go...
<seb128> scorcher7: what wiki page says that? you should subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors if you have a patch, this one is not correct though
<scorcher7> seb128: This one: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/HowToFix
<scorcher7> seb128: atomix is in main. do I still go to universe-sponsors?
<seb128> scorcher7: no, ubuntu-main-sponsors in this case, still the change is not correct
<scorcher7> seb128: my patch is incorrect? I would like to fix it. Can you tell me what is wrong?
<seb128> scorcher7: look in gtk-demo for some example or use google maybe, I'm not sure right now but there is no reason to change the api used there, you might just need to connect a callback or something
<mjg59> mario_limonciell: Nobody got round to deleting the
<mjg59> m
<mario_limonciell> considering the LTSness, perhaps doing something for the point release would be worthwhile then so this question isn't raised all the time
<scorcher7> seb128: thank you for reading my patch and giving me advice. I had changed the api because it is what other gnome apps use (like gnome-terminal) and it made the about dialog work like the other gnome apps.
<seb128> scorcher7: they call 10 functions rather than one? that's weird
<scorcher7> seb128: Now I see what you mean. I made the patch in reverse by accident. Sorry.
<scorcher7> seb128: the orginal called ten functions mine calls 1.
<seb128> scorcher7: ah, now it makes sense then ;-) just subscribe the main sponsors then and somebody will review it, it might take some time because the archive is still frozen right now
<scorcher7> seb128: so after I upload the correct patch I just subscribe to that mailing list and send an email to it asking for someone to sponsor the patch?
<seb128> no
<seb128> that's a launchpad team name, you subscribe the team and do nothing else
<scorcher7> seb128: Okay. Thank you very much for taking the time to help me.
<seb128> you are welcome
<seb128> ogra: around?
<nosrednaekim> jcastro: hey...i'm interested in doing an openweek session.
<jcastro> nosrednaekim: I have one open session left on saturday
<nosrednaekim> jcastro: how about a  quick tutorial on hardware debugging...how to properly use lspci, lshw, lsmod, etc.....
<jcastro> that sounds excellent, 2000 UTC this saturday?
<nosrednaekim> yeah...saturday's are good for me
<jcastro> sweet, fill yourself in: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek
<jcastro> and thanks!
<crimsun> nosrednaekim: ping me later for some notes, please.
<nosrednaekim> crimsun: ok
<nosrednaekim> crimsun: yeah, I don;t know the audio stuff all that well
<rod0009> hey can anyone help me to fix a bug?
<sladen> rod0009: yes, if you raise it https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+filebug
<alex-weej> seb128: got a min to chat about trackpads?
<seb128> alex-weej: sure, though I don't know anything about those
<alex-weej> seb128: ok so re https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gtk+2.0/+bug/223170
<alex-weej> basically i figure gtk has support for mouse scrolling via interpreting buttons 4 and 5 as "scroll up" and "scroll down" instructions
<alex-weej> which are the discrete movements we already have
<alex-weej> which are quite large
<alex-weej> i'm thinking gtk AND xorg-input-synaptics need support for delta-based scrolling
<seb128> ah ok, I've no idea about that
<alex-weej> so synaptics needs to generate a hypothetical "scroll dx=16,dy=23" event kind of thing
<alex-weej> and gtk needs to interpret it
<seb128> for me mouse cursor movements are purely an xorg thing
<alex-weej> yeah cursor movements are
<alex-weej> but scrolling is different right?
<seb128> I don't use a trackpad and I guess I don't understand the feature request
<alex-weej> oh ok
<seb128> well, scrolling is just a reaction to xorg events no?
<alex-weej> yeah
<seb128> so for me what you want there is xorg to react differently to some action
<seb128> that will impact on events generated
<seb128> and on how gtk will react
<seb128> no?
<seb128> I'm not sure what gtk hacks you want there
<alex-weej> the code that runs when i scroll a window some amount is in gtk, not xorg, right?
<seb128> right
<seb128> but this code doesn't know what a trackpad is
<seb128> it just reacts to xorg events
<seb128> no?
<alex-weej> so if xorg is firing these new fancy scroll dx=15,dy=-23 events
<alex-weej> 25 times a second
<alex-weej> gtk needs to deal with it
<spenser> anyone know when help.ubuntu.com will be updated for hardy?
<alex-weej> seb128: i think, i mean i have no clue. my choice of gtk and synaptics as tasks was just an educated guess
<alex-weej> bryce: maybe you can add some info?
<seb128> alex-weej: ok, so as said I don't know better about this so we are just both doing educated guess ;-)
<alex-weej> ok, well i'll copy this chat onto the bug if that's OK
<alex-weej> and chase up some more X/GTK people
<seb128> alex-weej: might be better to take than upstream directly, maybe there is somebody reading bugzilla and knowing better ;-)
<seb128> alex-weej: sure
<alex-weej> seb128: thing is, it needs cooperation with xorg stuff so taking it to either X or GTK independently is gonna be pain
<seb128> alex-weej: ok, maybe bryce has a better idea about that
<bryce> alex-weej, seb128: sorry no better ideas offhand, but I plan on working on input devices a lot during Intrepid, so if you point me at the bug I'll add it to my todo list
<bryce> alex-weej: fwiw, iirc synaptics is slated for being replaced by evdev in the not distant future
<alex-weej> bryce: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gtk+2.0/+bug/223170
<alex-weej> keep me in the loop man, i'd like to get it working as well as it is on Mac OS
<alex-weej> btw am i right about how cursor movement events are done?
<alex-weej> by an update interval with deltas?
<bryce> yup (afaik)
<alex-weej> maybe i should hammer out a blueprint?
<bryce> that could definitely help
<psusi> anyone here familiar with the sysv init system?  I'm very confused because there are no corresponding K scripts to shut down services like there should be, and /etc/init.d/rc looks like it runs the kill scripts for the NEW level rather than the previous level
<jdong> psusi: it's an "optimization" introduced like gutsy-ish?
<jdong> psusi: where non-important K-scripts were simply removed to save shutdown time
<jdong> edgy actually
<psusi> well, aren't they ALL important?  I mean when you switch from runlevel 3 to say, 4, then all the daemons should be stopped no?
<jdong> psusi: IMO yes, but apparently that's not a well-tested usecase
<psusi> and shouldn't the K scripts for the CURRENT level ( the one being changed FROM ) be run?  not the ones for the NEW level?
<jdong> psusi: the optimization should really only apply to runlevels 0 and 6
<jdong> psusi: no, the K-scripts for the new level runs
<jdong> psusi: the K-scripts are defined to run at the beginning of a runlevel
<psusi> huh?  S should start, and K should kill no?
<jdong> psusi: for the current runlevel
<psusi> so if you are LEAVING a level, shouldn't those services be stopped before starting the ones for the new level?
<jdong> psusi: S means invoke with the "start" argument, K means invoke with the "stop" argument
<jdong> psusi: you're thinking at one level too high of logical abstraction
<jdong> psusi: see, what your'e saying would actually make sense ;-)
<psusi> lol
<jdong> from an event-based runlevel switching mechanism's standpoint
<psusi> it has been years since I looked at this stuff but I could have sworn it was supposed to run the K scripts for the current level to shut everything down, then run the S scripts for the new level to start up whatever should be running there
<psusi> but this code I'm looking at now looks like things like sshd should continue running if I do a telinit S
<psusi> which clearly should not occur
<jdong> psusi: well I believe it's always been that when you switch to runlevel Y, it runs Y's K scritps, then Y's S scripts
<jdong> I don't recall that being the case
<jdong> not being the case rather
<jdong> psusi: now the problem with Ubuntu cutting corners in placing K-scripts IMO is a problem.
<psusi> I am sure that when you switch back to single user mode, sshd and X are supposed to stop ;)
<jdong> psusi: RHEL4 here has like 30 K-scripts in runlevel S :)
<psusi> and if sshd is only meant to run in runlevel 3, I don't recall it needing a K script in runlevel S to properly shutdown when you switch
<psusi> hrm...
<psusi> that totally makes my brain hurt
<psusi> so every runlevel is responsible for killing everything that every other runlevel could have possibly left running?  wtf?
<jdong> psusi: yeah if you literally only want it in RL3 you need to K it n RL 0,1,2,4,5,6,S
<jdong> psusi: welcome to the world of sysvinit!
<psusi> omg, can we please kill it?
<psusi> ;)
<jdong> psusi: I believe we are killing it this release cycle
<psusi> weee!
<jdong> sysvinit: stop on starting Intrepid ;-)
<jdong> (I think that's my first upstart pun of the cycle)
<psusi> well, there are no K scripts in rcS.d so that means if I do a telinit S, sshd and apache keep running then eh?  ick
<psusi> say, I was trying to find some good syntax documentation for the upstart control files
<psusi> could you point me to some?
<psusi> oh wait... my bad... that's right... single user mode is rc1.d, rcS.d is system startup... looks like it does have K scripts for all the daemons
<psusi> whew... that saves me some sanity...
<bryce> ogasawara_: fyi - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/X/KernelWishlist
<ogasawara_> bryce:  we'll probably want to discuss that at UDS with the kernel team
<xivulon> lamont, ping
#ubuntu-devel 2008-04-29
<arpu> hi all
<arpu> can someone help me with this bug ? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/223843
<arpu> i found out it have nothing to do with the xrdb error messages in .xsession-errors
<arpu> but the bootchart shows me xrdb -> zombie
<arpu> is this the right channel to ask ?
<pwnguin> i wish open week would publish required readings for talks instead of just duplicating the wiki over IRC
 * lamont wonders what xivulon wanted
<jdong> lamont: now you'll *never* know
<ion_> To ask your hand in marriage.
<jdong> lamont: the inquisition will haunt you for the REST of your life
<lamont> jdong: nah
<lamont> he didn't care enough to just ask the question, so... meh
<jdong> deep down you really do care. you are dying to know
<jdong> and it will only become apparent in your mid-life crisis :)
 * jdong was told not to go into medical science for some reason :)
<ion_> May I inquire whether I am allowed to ask whether it's okay to ask whether i can ask to ask a metaquestion?
<lamont> jdong: I already sold my midlife-crisis car
<lamont> ion_: not without asking first.
<lamont> :-)
<toresbe> one of the more interesting bugs I've encountered when upgrading to feisty is that my left monitor has become intermittent
<lamont> feisty???
<wgrant> Well, it's probably fixed in Gutsy or Hardy.
<lamont> dear me, why?
<toresbe> uh, sorry. Hardy!
<arpu> no on an idea ?
<toresbe> It's 2AM, and I'm doing schoolwork. :)
<arpu> or help to find the problem ?
<lamont> <ion_> am I allowed to ask whether it's okay to ask whether i can ask to ask a metaquestion?
<toresbe> Well, I'm on IRC, pretending to myself that I'm really doing schoolwork. It's complicated.
<lamont> toresbe: I know that issue far too well.
<toresbe> :)
<lamont> OTOH, it's 6PM here, and I'm about to head off to bed - exhausting afternoon
<toresbe> after upgrading, monitor 0 while using the evil unfree nVidia driver...
<jdong> pfft bed at 6PM?
<lamont> jdong: I roll out of bed at 5AM weekdays
<lamont> and this afternoon I kinda played on an antenna tower for a while..
<jdong> lamont: that's typically when I roll into bed to prepare for 9AM classes :)
<lamont> total of ~ 200 feet of vertical climb, up and down
<lamont> max height above ground?  40 feet
<lamont> lots of trips
<lamont> oh, and manhandling a 70 pound section into place at the top of two of those climbs
 * ion_ does % units 200feet m
<lamont> ion_: 66m
<lamont> and max height of ~13m
<ion_> 60.96 :-)
<lamont> iz wag
<lamont> you only get 2 sigfigs
<lamont> too tired to actually count what I climbed
<lamont> we were short one person, so I climbed to do the upstairs prep, then down to help haul it up, then up to place it, then up/down/up 10 feet to migrate the pole to the top of the newly installed section, then down to do it all over again
<lamont> fortunately only adding 2 sections to the tower
<ion_> Heh
<jdong> lamont: this sounds like the problem used to kick start our math discussion on recursive generator functions
<lamont> so now my arms are starting to feel it.
<jdong> I think you're supposed to move the bigger disc to pole 3 first
<jdong> then move the next one to poll 2, then bring 3->2
<lamont> jdong: oh, it's definitely at least iterative, recursion would involve not coming down until it was done.
<jdong> *ducks*
<lamont> lol
<lamont> just one stick
<lamont> although if we grow it again, we'll have to take the top section down to put the new not-top section on before we can put the top back on... so it starts to feel like the tower of hanoi all over again
<ion_> What's the difference between a recursive function and a recursive generator function? 'foo = 1 + foo' vs. 'foo = 1 : [ a+1 | a <- foo ]' (haskell)?
<lamont> I may put the 20 foot mast (which would top out at 62' )long story), and slap a flag on that so that I can call it a flag pole.  then light it from below so I don't have to take the flag down - because that'd suck
<jdong> ion_: generator functions track state for you lazily, it's not your job to manage the state of the generator
<jdong> ion_: which is useful for more complex generators
<jdong> where you can just "yield" values at arbitrary points in execution
<jdong> and the next time you need to generate a value the function "resumes" at that spot
<ion_> Alright
<ion_> So a recursive generator function is just that, but happens to be recursive. :-) That is, the latter example is precisely that.
<ion_> s/recursive generator/generator function/
<ion_> Uh, scratch that. Too sleepy.
<jdong> ion_: well a generator function in CS is different than a generator function in mathematical theory
<pwnguin> a generating function in math theory is stupid ;)
<jdong> pwnguin: but it's on the test next week!
<pwnguin> heh
<jdong> pwnguin: so I'm kinda out of options :)
<pwnguin> i really cant see the utility in them versus learning more graph theory
 * lamont takes a drive to go restart openvpn from the far end. sigh
<ScottK> Heya lamont.  sgran has me using git now (on clamav), so there's hope for me yet.
<LaserJock> oh my!
<lamont> ScottK: heh. cool
<lamont> ScottK: I bounce between git and bzr these days
<ScottK> So far I've encountered bzr nowhere outside of Ubuntu (I know it's used elsewhere, I just haven't run into it).  Learning yet another VCS special for Ubuntu is low on my list.
<LaserJock> ScottK: so you just need to get a git-bzr ;-)
<calc> mjg59: http://www.advogato.org/person/mjg59/diary/82.html <- the firmware bug is what exactly? that it defaults to parking at too low an idle time?
<Hobbsee> good morning
<lamont> ScottK: likewise until I kinda picked up a business need to learn another one...
<lamont> and I see benefits to both of them.  and insufficient reason to switch between them for things that are already in one or the other
<lamont> cvs/svn?  definitely shoot it in the head and move to bzr or git. kthx
<lamont> I wonder if I'd get shot for uploading to intrepid, or if it'll just wait until everything is ready for it
<lamont> g'morning Hobbsee
<ScottK> I think we've proven recently that it's impossible to be fired from being a volunteer for Ubuntu, so no reason not to go for it.
<persia> It being frozen, the upload will likely sit in approved
<persia> s/approved/unapproved/
<ScottK> persia: Did you see the message to debian-devel about README.Debian.source?
<persia> ScottK: Yes.  I'm all in favor
<calc> got a question, anyone know how to use blktrace?
<persia> With luck, there will be defined rules in debian/rules in the future to for things like "edit-patch", "patch", etc.
<ScottK> persia: I'd suggest some updating of our documentation then so we can start pointing REVU victims at it.
<calc> "blktrace -d /dev/sda -o -" says "/sys/kernel/debug does not appear to be a debug filesystem"
<StevenK> ScottK: s/victims/users/
<calc> anyone know how to make it work?
<persia> ScottK: Sounds like a good idea.  You might want to write the suggestion to a mailing list
<lamont> and util-linux_2.14~rc2-0ubuntu1 heads for intrepid
<ScottK> StevenK: There's a difference (It's Debian makes you care about the users, not Ubuntu)?
<ScottK> persia: Sure.
<calc> oh nm README.Debian tells me what to do :)
<ScottK> persia: Done.
 * lamont really afk
 * TheMuso is in favour of the README.source file as well.
<ScottK> For odd stuff, sure, but I don't see a point in a file that says "This package uses dpatch" and then goes on to explain using dpatch-edit-patch.
<ScottK> As with many things, it seems like a decent idea way overdone.
<persia> ScottK: As it says in that email, for a dpatch using package, it would likely just point to the dpatch info somewhere in /usr/share/doc/dpatch.  On the other hand, it makes answering the question "How do I tell what patch system to use" as easy as "read README.source"
 * ScottK doesn't see that as a significant improvment over looking at the build-deps and then reading man dpatch-edit-patch, but OK.
<persia> ScottK: For the case of an enumerable set of patch systems, I agree.  In order to specifically support an arbitrary set of patch systems, it'd be nice to not have to explain how to check both debian/control, debian/rules, and possibly some random included makefile snippet from somewhere when someone wants to prepare a patch.
<ScottK> Right, but I think a "Don't bother if it uses dpatch, simple-patchsys, or quilt" rule would make sense.
<persia> Well, also, as the set grows unboundedly, it becomes less clear if people would reliably remain familiar with those patch systems.
<ScottK> But keep in mind the described purpose of this is for the security team.
<ScottK> It's not meant for random developer wanna be's.
<persia> Well, it's useful for them.  Anyway, even for the security team, consider the case where someone encounters one of the packages that has patches both applied to the source in diff.gz and stored in debian/patches for reference: these are annoying to update without documentation.  As the set of systems grows, this becomes more of a problem.
<persia>   At some point in the future, new entrants into the security team may rely on packages being in git or bzr tarballs as a regular course, and be somewhat stumped by someone's specialty dpatch that executes some logical analysis rather than just applying a simple patch.
<ScottK> Sure someday.
<persia> Right.  For the common cases, it's just a "This package uses simple-patchsys: see /usr/share/doc/cdbs/simple-patchsys." in README.source.  Not very difficult, yet future-proof.
<kees> I'd prefer a machine-readable README.source, honestly.
<kees> better yet, common build rules.
<kees> but README.source is certainly a good first step.  :)
<persia> kees: If you'd be up for documenting a model, it could be encouraged for use in REVU as a proving ground.
<kees> persia: I worry any attempt at this would just result in cdbs-edit-patch.  ;)
<persia> kees: Maybe, but I'd agree with you that having more defined build rules is the way to go.  I'd like to see "patch", "unpatch", and "edit-patch" be standards.  Let the packager control how the rule is implemented, rather than trying to have some system that does the right thing (e.g. cdbs-edit-patch).
<persia> Set some standards, like "edit-patch must leave the user in a subshell, and save changes when complete", and it makes it easy for the updater.
<ScottK> persia: Perhaps we should define some kind of common debian build system?
<ScottK> ;-)
<kees> persia: yeah -- I would love that.  :)
<kees> ScottK: sssh!  ;)
<ScottK> I guess I don't know how hard this really is.
<persia> ScottK: We've had two.  I'd rather have a defined interface, than defined code.  This allows flexibility and change, without imposing behavious
<persia> s/s$/r/
<ScottK> I fixed on one of manoj's packages just before release and even that wasn't that hard.
<ScottK> In case you don't know, manoj doesn't even use debhelper.
 * ScottK goes to bed (really this time).
<persia> That's fine.  I'm not even especially concerned if people don't use make (although I'm a big fan of make).  I'd just like to see more required rules implemented, so that more standard package manipulation procedures could be automated.
<persia> I don't want to have to think about what to do when I want to a) check a new upstream, b) verify the patchset applied, c) apply patches, d) edit patches, 4) package a new upstream, 5) verify rebuild of generated files, etc.
<persia> Every package should have the same interface: `debian/rules foo`.  Ideally, there should be different sets of deps in debian/control so I can always verify that I have the right environment in which to run the rule.
<wgrant> persia: I think we should start shipping packages with binary debian/rules, without source.
 * Hobbsee clubs wgrant
<pwnguin> you spelled hugs wrong
 * RAOF gives hugs
<pwnguin> hey RAOF
<RAOF> Hey pwnguin.
<pwnguin> random question: is the drm stuff nouveau needs going to be in mainline kernel any time soon?
<RAOF> Once they're reasonably certain they'll not need to change any interfaces, yes.
<pwnguin> so still no firm date
<pwnguin> or even soft date
<RAOF> That's one of the reasons why testing the randr12 codepath is being pushed right now.
<RAOF> No, AFAIK.
<persia> wgrant: That's a little extreme.  I think we only have a couple binary debian/rules, but without source gets messy.
<pwnguin> heh, progressQuest
<RAOF> Once there are no randr12 blocker bugs it gets enabled by default, then pushed to kernelspace, then pushed to mainline IIUC.
<pwnguin> so what else uses that besides nouveau? intel?
<RAOF> pwnguin: Yup.  Intel will, but not quite yet I think.
<RAOF> pwnguin: Everything _will_, eventually.
<wgrant> Is TTM part of the new DRM, or not?
<pwnguin> donno about that.
<RAOF> I think this depends on what you mean by "new DRM" :).  I don't think that nouveau uses TTM yet, and I'm not sure whether intel does either, outside of git branches.
<RAOF> I _think_ that with a bunch of git builds you can get DRI2 on (what will be) Xserver 1.5 with Intel, and I'm pretty sure that requires TTM.  So...
<a7x> i wrote a patch to fix a bug (LP: #221661).  would someone be willing to review it and tell me if it's OK?
<jdong> bug 221661
<jdong> oh that's right. no more bots.
<jdong> pfft
<TheMuso> huh?
<jdong> TheMuso: more IRC politics than you want to ever know about...
<TheMuso> jdong: Whats this?
<jdong> trust me.
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: you don't want to know.
 * TheMuso sighs. So it is to our detriment then.
<gnomefreak> jdong: we have bots just none have that plugin or are as smart as ubotu
<RAOF> What?  Why no ubotu?
<jdong> a7x: I looked at the patch, I can't say much about it, I'm not conviinced that it's right or wrong
<gnomefreak> RAOF: nope no more
<RAOF> _!!!_
<gnomefreak> ill brb my screen just went really small
<a7x> thanks.  what should my next step be?  just let it sit until the package maintainer finds it?
<warp10> Good morning
<pitti> Good morning
<lucent> greetings
<stgraber> morning
<Silicium> ReiserFS: For when you need to partition your wife. :D
<jscinoz> Nice silicium
<emgent> morning
<pitti> Keybuk: hm, MoM seems to be out of date. e. g. it shows debhelper as 6.0.10 in Debian; that was from March
<PecisDarbs> hmmmm, why translation import queue is so long, is there any hope for it to change?
<calc> yipee intrepid is now open for abuse :)
<pwnguin> PecisDarbs: if intrepid is open, i imagine there's a whole ton of upstream translations being pulled in now?
<PecisDarbs> ahhh I see
<wgrant> I doubt the autosyncer would have run yet.
<wgrant> As we have no new toolchain quite yet.
<calc> basefiles, binutils is there already and a few other things
<wgrant> I'll wait a few more days before I upgrade.
<cjwatson> calc: will be a little while yet before it's open open
<pitti> doko, cjwatson: FYI, debhelper merged, tested, fixed (sent to Debian), and uploaded, waiting in unapproved now
<cjwatson> pwnguin: I rather doubt that intrepid is open for translations yet
<cjwatson> pitti: do we want that in before gcc's done? I was thinking let the C toolchain build first
<doko> I don't mind
<pitti> cjwatson: yes, that's fine; just mentioning to avoid double work
<pitti> cjwatson: it's arch:all, so it doesn't matter, but I thought it would be good to have it readily available in the queue
 * pitti merges cdbs now
<persia> pitti: Please either reference the changelogs bit in the changelog or drop it
<pitti> persia: ECONTEXT?
<persia> pitti: For hardy, we carried a patch on CDBS that wasn't in the changelogs, which didn't autoinclude upstream changelogs in the binary package.
<persia> For intrepid, it would be my preference to either explicitly document this patch, or not carry it.
<pitti> persia: oh, sure; I'll walk through the entire delta again anyway
<persia> pitti: Great.  Just wanted to make sure that didn't get missed again: it wasn't worth a patch to fix the changelog, but confused a lot of REVU'ers
<pitti> right
<seb128> persia: why do REVU people look at cdbs changes?
<persia> seb128: Because people were getting the warning that they weren't including the upstream changelog from linda, and the CDBS documentation explicitly states that it should be autoincluded by CDBS.  Without the reference in the changelog, several people spent time tracking down the cause to separately answer the question "Why doesn't it work they way it says it should".
<seb128> ah, ok
<persia> Of course, more generally, there is the class of users who use apt-listchanges :)
<wgrant> Do we really need that patch anyway? It can't save that much space, and there's no longer an easy way to look for upstream changes.
<persia> There's also a heap of packages that work around it in one way or another
<pitti> wgrant: oh, it saves a lot of space; upstream changelogs are often incredibly huge
<pitti> they could go into libfoo-dev, but they shouldn't really be in all binaries
<seb128> wgrant: the space doesn't matter that much on an install but it does on the cd for example
<persia> Given that only a subset of packages are on the CD, and not all of those use CDBS, might it make sense to patch those packages?
<pitti> Xubuntu folks: do we still need cdbs' xfce.mk? AFAIK it's being phased out?
<wgrant> persia: That would appear to make the most sense.
<seb128> no it doesn't
<pitti> persia: it's still a waste of bandwidth and HD space for users
<seb128> persia: we don't want to have the whole cd content carying ubuntu specific change for no good reason
<persia> pitti: I guess, but I've seen a lot of packages that work around it.  Then again, I'm not in a good position to take an opinion based on bandwidth or disk space constraints.
<seb128> bah, they should not
<wgrant> ... why not?
<persia> If we really want to strip them, it would make more sense to me to have a hook in the build system that pulled them at build-time, to hit all packages, rather than just CDBS packages.
<seb128> we should fix those and explain to whoever does the change there is no reason
<wgrant> Upstream changelogs are a good thing.
<seb128> they are not an user thing
<wgrant> seb128: We ship the Debian changelog why?
<persia> Why not?  Users have to deal with the mnigration between versions when the upgrade.  This is especially a concern for server-type packages.
<wgrant> Surely that's going to have even fewer user-visible changes.
 * cjwatson hopes the REVU process isn't suggesting people use linda any more, BTW
<cjwatson> it's officially phased out in Debian now
<persia> cjwatson: It does, but there's no linda.  It will likely be dropped when the documentation is next refreshed.
<seb128> persia: informations which should be displayed on upgrade should go in the README.Debian, not rely on users reading the upstream changelog for each package they update
<broonie> seb128: YM NEWS.Debian?
<seb128> or that ;-)
<persia> seb128: Do you mean NEWS.Debian?  In that case, I have to echo wgrant's question: why do we ship any changelogs?
 * persia reads every changelog for every package installed, but understands this is not a typical level of paranoia
<broonie> persia: They're useful if something breaks or you're interested; they just shouldn't be essential reading for everyone.
<seb128> persia: waouh, so when upgrading a box from dapper to hardy you read over 1000 changelog, I'm impressed ;-)
<persia> broonie: That makes sense to me.  What doesn't make sense is specifically stripping changelogs from only CDBS packages that don't use the DEB_CHANGELOGS_ALL variable.
<persia> seb128: Well, I did it in stages, but yes.
<seb128> persia: nobody said this change was perfect, it was required to win CD space and easy to do
<persia> seb128: Understood.  Note my lack of complaint about it during the hardy cycle, and further that my request was that it was either dropped or documented.
<seb128> persia: or you are welcome to suggest a better way which doesn't imply adding ubuntu specific changes to every packages on the CD
<lool> doko: #224110 for the java issue I mentionned yesterday
<lool> It's due to unionfs
<persia> Personally, I think a build-system hook is a better way to do it
<seb128> what do you call "build-system hook"?
<lool> I agree with persia, but I fail to reconcile that maintainers want the changelogs shipped on the installed system and that the installed system is copied from the live CD
<persia> seb128: As an example, there could be a package that overrides dpkg-deb to strip /usr/share/doc/*changelog*/ when building binaries.
<lool> It would require network to e.g. reinstall the missing changelog files after a live CD install
<seb128> persia: I though you didn't want to strip changelogs and now you want to do it for the whole archive,
<seb128> ?
<lool> seb128: Only for CD builds I guess, as this is where we want to save space
<persia> seb128: I personally like changelogs.  I understand they don't make sense for the CD.  The current implementation of stripping in CDBS seems like a suboptimal solution to me.
<seb128> persia: it is, as said it was easy and did the job
<persia> seb128: Sure.  I'm not arguing the past decision.  Only commenting as we're starting a new cycle, and this would be the time for such changes, if we wanted them.  My main concern was that if we wanted to keep the changelog stripping in CDBS, it be documented in the CDBS changelog.
<seb128> nobody argued against that and pitti said the he will do the change
<seb128> I had the impression you were arguing against the change rather than asking to get it documented though
<pitti> persia: already happened
<cjwatson> pitti: have you seen http://liorkaplan.wordpress.com/2008/04/27/why-does-ubuntu-puts-firefox-transalation-in-gnomes-language-pack/#comments ?
<cjwatson> (err, - #comments)
<pitti> cjwatson: I didn't, looking
<pitti> cjwatson: -gnome was actually a deliberate choice, since Riddell didn't want them on the Kubuntu CDs by default; the package description is indeed wrong, though; fixing in langpack-o-matic
<cjwatson> there's a comment about upgrade path problems
<pitti> it seems that we wanted the old m-f-locale-* packages to stick around for ffox2, instead of becoming transitional packages pointing to language-pack-gnome-XX
<james_w> pitti: I can't speak officialy for Xubuntu, but a number of recent uploads have resynchronised on the Debian packaging, so it may well be on the way out.
<pitti> james_w: I left it in for now
<cjwatson> pitti: maybe they should depend on language-pack-gnome-XX as well
<cjwatson> it's a bit ugly, but ...
<pitti> at least it does upgrades 'more' correctly
<pitti> asac: ^ WDYT? could be worth an SRU
<asac> pitti: whats the proposal?
<asac> Id love to move the translations to the real langpacks
<pitti> asac: have m-f-locale-XX depend: on l-pack-gnome-XX
<pitti> asac: to get an upgrade path
<asac> pitti: that would help upgraders, but not kubuntu users ... firefox is surely used by most kubuntu users as well.
<pitti> asac: but that would DTRT for them?
<pitti> cjwatson: I commented on the blog, thanks for the pointer
<soren> cjwatson: Did we enable the edd magic in the kernel by default for hardy?
<pitti> asac: s/most/some/, but either way, if they install m-f-locale-XX on Kubuntu, they should get the langpack on upgrade to retain translations
<pitti> cjwatson, doko: FYI, cdbs merged, tested, uploaded
<pitti> any other quasi-toolchain packages which come to your mind?
<pitti> make isn't significantly newer in Debian, that can go through auto-syncs
<doko> maybe autoconf/automake, I'll prepare python2.5 as well
<pitti> ah, good point
<pitti> both are syncs, though
<pitti> so we can't hold them in unapproved; they should be synced after your toolchain bits built
<cjwatson> soren: can't do so by default, but you can boot with edd=on to get it
<cjwatson> soren: (it causes some machines to hang for a few minutes on boot, and I think may even cause some machines to fail to boot altogether)
<soren> cjwatson: Ok. I just noticed something about EDD fly by when I booted one of my machines.
<asac> pitti: yes that should do the right thing for upgraders. but given that most users likely indirectly installed m-f-locale-XX through language-support-XX i still think that the real bug is the -gnome demotion here.
<lool> pitti: Would it make sense to offer ddebs for ppas?
<lool> We use a ppa for ubuntu-mobile and I guess many development/testing happens in ppa; could be cool to have ddebs there too
<pitti> lool: would certainly be nice, but it's (a) a question of storage space, and (2) a question where to process them
<pitti> lool: I'd really like soyuz to support ddebs; the current hack is very brittle
<pitti> and it's going to get much worse with more ddebs
 * pitti sighs at apt-ftparchive being so ridiculously slooooooooow
<pitti> macaroni.ubuntu.com is busy all day with updating the archive :/ (three runs a day)
<lool> pitti: apport doesn't work for me on mobile after I enabled it and rebooted it; I wondered whether amitk could check which bits wouldn't be enabled in the kernel, but he doesn't know which these are
<lool> pitti: Do you have the CONFIG_ flags in mind?  Or perhaps we lack something
<wgrant> pitti: Let me guess - they're going to implement it post-2.0?
<pitti> lool: it doesn't need anything particular from the kernel since 2.6.23
<lool> amitk: ^
<pitti> wgrant: I don't know
<lool> amitk: So nevermind
<lool> pitti: What could explain that it doesn't save a crash on sigsegv?
<pitti> lool: is apport set in /proc/sys/kernel/core_pattern ?
<lool> Yes
<amitk> lool: I had no idea it ever required kernel support :) Learnt something new
<pitti> lool: what does "/usr/share/apport/testsuite/test-apport kernel" say?
<pitti> amitk: it did until feisty
<lool> * Check that empty core dumps do not generate a report
<lool> Traceback (most recent call last):
<lool>   File "/usr/share/apport/testsuite/test-apport", line 174, in <module>
<lool>     assert app.wait() == 0, app.stderr.read()
<lool> AssertionError
<lool> /proc/sys/kernel/crashdump-size doesn't exist
<lool> Nor does it on my desktop though
<pitti> lool: why should it exist? that's from edgy or feisty's Ubuntu kernel patch
<pitti> lool: can you remove /var/log/apport.log, run the test again, and pastebin apport.log?
<lool> pitti: Nothing in apport.log
<lool> pitti: I just told you about /proc/sys/kernel/crashdump-size as I saw it pass while set -x-ing the apport init script; didn't know whether it was relevant or not
<pitti> hm
<pitti> lool: the init script just sets core_pattern
<pitti> but the test suite complains if it isn't set, so that's fine
<pitti> lool: what does this say? echo foo | sudo /usr/share/apport/apport $$ 42 0
<pitti> lool: erm, you can drop the sudo, sorry
<lool> apport (pid 5753) Tue Apr 29 10:23:06 2008: cannot create lock file (uid 1000):
<lool> pitti: Ok, owner/group issue with our user
<lool> pitti: thanks
<lool> pitti: Hmm actually the only difference in groups between my desktop user and the ume mobile user are powerdev and netdev
<lool> Hmm for some reason I see crashes in /var/crash now
<lool> pitti: Probably where you expected me to grab the log file I guess
<pitti> lool: the log file is in /var/log
<pitti> lool: ah, /var/crash was unwritable?
<pitti> lool: powerdev/netdev are irrelevant, yes
<lool> pitti: I don't see a log file
<pitti> lool: the command I gave you from above writes to stderr, not to a log
<lool> pitti: All it gave was that permission error
<pitti> lool: right, so /var/crash/ is unwritable for you
<pitti> lool: drwxrwxrwt 2 root root 4096 2008-04-29 12:22 /var/crash/
<pitti> ^ default in Ubuntu
<pitti> (1777)
<lool> drwxrwxrwt 2 root root 4096 Apr 29 10:23 /var/crash/
<lool> pitti: It's set by the init script
<lool> So should be ok here too
<lool> pitti: This is on unionfs
<lool> Should be similar to the live CD
<pitti> lool: hm, what's wrong with /var/crash/.lock?
<lool> That one is root
<lool> -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 0 Apr 29 09:59 /var/crash/.lock
<Keybuk> pitti: it's rebuilding atm
<pitti> lool: ah; please try to remove it
<lool> pitti: Shall I wipe it?
<lool> Sure
<pitti> lool: otherwise the test suite and above command need to run as root
<pitti> Keybuk: yay
<lool> apport (pid 6242) Tue Apr 29 10:30:23 2008: executable: /persistmnt/bin/cat (command line "/bin/cat")
<lool> apport (pid 6242) Tue Apr 29 10:30:23 2008: executable does not belong to a package, ignoring
<lool> pitti: Looks like an unionfs issue
<lool> pitti: Pathname is guessed wrong
<lool> Just like in #224110
<pitti> ah
<lool> I guess it's read from /proc
<pitti> /proc/$$/exe symlink wrong then?
<lool> Is it working from Ubuntu live CDs?
<pitti> lool: not 100% sure TBH
<lool> /proc/6231/exe: symbolic link to `/persistmnt/bin/bash'
<lool> Yes
<pitti> lool: aah, it doesn't, but apport has a hack for this
<pitti>         if self['ExecutablePath'].startswith('/rofs/'):
<pitti>             self['ExecutablePath'] = self['ExecutablePath'][5:]
<pitti> apport/report.py ^
<lool> pitti: Too bad we don't use the same name for the mountpoint :-/
<pitti> lool: you can try changing report.py locally for the /persistmnt/ prefix
<lool> pitti: Also, packages which be installed afterwards, you should also allow the casper / rw one perhaps
<Keybuk> pitti: it was killed by the debian ftp-master problems a while back
<Keybuk> and it takes a while for bad data to leave it's head
<cjwatson> apostrophe!
<Keybuk> cjwatson: coffee!
<lool> pitti: So what would you think of apport parsing /proc/mounts looking whether / is unionfs and extracting the dirs= attribute from there as a list of prefixes to optionally strip?
<pitti> lool: I think it'd be a nasty workaround for an unionfs bug :/
<lool> I agree unionfs shall be fixed; I added a tasklet to this effect on the bug I mentionned earlier but TBH I'm not holding my breath
<pitti> right; in the meantime, it's less intrusive and more robust to add particular prefix special cases to report.py IMHO
<pitti> especially if we want to SRU this
<lool> What's the read-write partition on live CDs?  /rwfs?
<pitti> seb128: hm, re gphoto fs etc, why don't we get a fuse mount for gvfs virtual file systems like gphoto? eog, gthumb, CLI etc. could use that fuse mount then
<pitti> seb128: (context: gnome bug 530371)
<ubot5> Gnome bug 530371 in general "fails to open pictures on gphotofs" [Normal,Unconfirmed] http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=530371
<cjwatson> lool: /rofs
<cjwatson> err
<cjwatson> sorry, misread. it's /cow but in practice not usually accessible as such from outside the initramfs
<cjwatson> unless you boot with showmounts
<lool> cjwatson: Wont programs installed from the live CD return pathnames below /cow in /proc/self/exe?
<cjwatson> maaaaaaybe
 * cjwatson would not like to make bets without testing
<lool> I think so, as it happened to us in the UME unionfs
<cjwatson> in any case I meant not usually visible as a mount point in the filesystem; I wasn't arguing with the /proc/self/exe problem
<lool> Thanks for the pathname
<lool> pitti: Could you check lp:~lool/apport/ubuntu from an apport upstream perspective and then as a SRU candidate?  It now passes the kernel testsuite for me
<lool> (still pushing though)
<ogra> cjwatson, depends ....
<pitti> lool: can you also run the entire test suite?
<pitti> /usr/share/apport/testsuite/run-tests
<lool> (pushed now)
<cjwatson> ogra: casper's default is not to expose it
<cjwatson> 11:46 <cjwatson> unless you boot with showmounts
<ogra> cjwatson, depends .... gvfs lists the devices in "places" if certain conditions arent fulfilled that makes it ignore them
<lool> pitti: http://paste.ubuntu.com/8707/
<lool> One failure; looks unrelated to the change
<ogra> cjwatson, reading from /proc/mounts
<pitti> lool: hm, might be a problem with unionfs' handling of mtime
<lool> Indeed
<pitti> lool: could you please comment out that assertNotEqual and run it again?
<pitti> lool: if it's the only failure, it should be ok
<pitti> lool: (reason: the following tests are not run any more after a failure)
<seb128> pitti: we do get a fuse mount for those, nautilus just pass the uri and not the fuse path to those applications
<pitti> seb128: oh, that would be the problem then
<seb128> pitti: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=528670 is the patch fedora is using
<ubot5> Gnome bug 528670 in gio "Only pass gio uri's to applications known to use gio" [Normal,Unconfirmed]
<ogra> cjwatson, i realize that ume is different though
<seb128> pitti: the add a special tag to the .desktop to say what application support gio and pass the fuse path when they don't
<lool> pitti: http://paste.ubuntu.com/8709/
<lool> (I had to set LANG)
<seb128> pitti: they did the change late to get it in hardy though, but I would like to get that in 8.04.1 if possible
<pitti> lool: you have to clean up /var/crash/ before, as it says
<pitti> lool: I just wonder what's wrong with the python crashes
<lool> I remain with that crash after removing the other crashes
<lool> (The crash to remove was the one from the other testsuite run)
<lool> pitti: I get other errors when running the testsuite on my amd64 desktop with the hardy version; could you perhaps run the testsuite with the two versions and see whether it regresses?
<lool> You're better qualified than me to decide which tests to ignore and which not :)
<pitti> lool: two versions? you mean from your branch?
<lool> Yes
<pitti> lool: does it regress? or is the hardy final one producing the same?
 * pitti checks out the branch
<lool> I don't know whether it regresses; I'd have to disabled all the failing hardy tests to run it in full
<pitti> ok
 * lool lunch &
<pitti> lool: that change looks ok to me, FWIW
<pitti> lool: running tests now
<lool> (I also confirm it also made my crashing app create a crash file \o/ -- had to empty the battery to reproduce the bug)
<pitti> lool: btw, the easiest (known to me) way to test this is: bash -c 'kill -SEGV $$'
<sistpoty|work> can an archive admin please copy xmms-crossfade from hardy-proposed to hardy-updates? (bug #208666)
<pitti> sistpoty|work: this is barely a day old; we usually let them mature a little longer?
<pitti> sistpoty|work: for this bug 7 days are probably too long, though
<sistpoty|work> pitti: I've talked to jdong and DktrKranz2 yesterday, they were ok with it
<sistpoty|work> (and it's a rebuild only :)
<pitti> sistpoty|work: ok, done
<sistpoty|work> pitti: oh, btw.: the 7 day delay is no longer in the StableReleaseUpdates wiki. maybe it should be added again?
<sistpoty|work> thanks pitti!
<emgent> heya
<pitti> sistpoty|work: ugh, yes
<pitti> sistpoty|work: it's on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArchiveAdministration#head-1f27dc12ab1558ec21b31ac44e4c86a87a4cd053
<pitti> sistpoty|work: since it doesn't belong to the steps that the uploading developer has to do
<sistpoty|work> pitti: ah, thanks for clarification :)
<pitti> lool: merged into ubuntu branch and pushed; thanks!
 * Hobbsee pokes dholbach
<dholbach> hi Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> dholbach: heya.  query?
<dholbach> Hobbsee: sure
<lool> pitti: Thanks; let me know if you want me to upload it
<lool> During lunch, I realized this is also probably the explanation for services failing to stop on mobile
<lool> Like acpid and hal
<lool> I'd bet on start-stop-daemon being hit by this too
<pitti> lool: please prepare an SRU bug for it
<pitti> lool: you should upload it as 7.1, since I have an ubuntu8 UNRELEASED in trunk (with another change)
<wgrant> (and 7.1 is proper, recognisable SRU versioning...)
<emgent> heya wgrant
<seb128> wgrant: .1 is a debian NMU versionning rather
<wgrant> seb128: Not if it's after ubuntu, like it would be here.
<seb128> wgrant: still, if we want a SRU naming policy we should not get one and not rely on NMU numbers or not
<seb128> wgrant: I usually just do ubuntu<n+1>
<wgrant> seb128: Everybody else uses ubuntuN.1
<ogra> isnt that security versioning ?
<wgrant> ogra: It is.
<ogra> and is it a security update or a SRU bugfix ?
<wgrant> The schemes in common use are identical.
<seb128> wgrant: that's wrong, there is uploads from 5 people using "n+1" which have been accepted to hardy this morning
<ogra> wgrant, nope
<wgrant> ANd I've got no idea why. That's release versioning.
<seb128> wgrant: you are inventing a rule there
<cjwatson> the reason to use ubuntuN.1 is if you aren't sure whether ubuntu<N+1> will be in use in the next release, or know that it is
<seb128> wgrant: the only condition is that the hardy upload version has to be smaller than the intrepid one
<cjwatson> if you know that ubuntu<N+1> won't be used in the next release, it's OK to use it
<cjwatson> seb128: versions also have to be unique, so the hardy version has to have never been used in intrepid
<wgrant> Why don't we have an official standard?
<cjwatson> it's not necessary
<seb128> right
<cjwatson> the standard is "don't reuse version numbers"
<cjwatson> (and obviously the stuff about "ubuntu" inhibiting autosync)
<cjwatson> exactly how you choose to achieve that is up to you
<ogra> given that we merge at every release cycle begin it is very likely that a package switches to -Xubuntu1 again with a new debian version for most of the packages
<ogra> i think the case for having a higher ubuntuX in -updates is qute rarely possible thourgh that
<cjwatson> I think it's quite reasonable to default to ubuntuN.1 since it's almost always safe (NOTE NOT ALWAYS) but there's no reason to complain about ubuntu<N+1> either
<stgraber> soren: Hi, I'm playing with kvm and the socket nic. I have a LTSP server listening to a local port and another qemu connecting to it as client. Everything seems extremely slow (I would say <1Mbit/s). Is that normal, do you know how fast is the socket nic supposed to be ?
<cjwatson> the caveat to the above is that if you're e.g. doing simultaneous SRUs to gutsy and hardy and they have the same base version number then you need to choose different version numbers for each
<cjwatson> so the simple policy is "don't reuse version numbers" and let developers sort it out
<ogra> well, its also getting more tricky to tell security updates from normal <release>-updates
<ogra> if you use ubuntuX.1 in SRUs
<cjwatson> you tell security updates from normal updates by looking at the index files
<cjwatson> any attempt to do so by version numbers is doomed to unreliability
<soren> stgraber: I've never actually used that, actually.
<lool> pitti: You mean 0.108.1?
<soren> stgraber: <1Mbit/s sounds insane, though.
<pitti> lool: right, sorry
<lool> Why do we use .1 and not ~hardy1?
<cjwatson> X.Y~hardy1 < X.Y
<seb128> because your suggestion version is smaller?
<cjwatson> we loosely reserve that for backport versioning
<seb128> suggested
<lool> cjwatson: Yeah 109~hardy1 or 108+hardy1
<cjwatson> then you have to predict the next version number
<cjwatson> you can do that if you like, but it's generally much easier to do it by appending something without ~
<seb128> ogra: did you read the comments on http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=526320?
<ubot5> Gnome bug 526320 in gio "should not list mounts that the user doesn't have permission to use" [Normal,Resolved: fixed]
<lool> Well I would like to use the same versioning scheme in all cases
<lool> So +hardy1 for instance
<ogra> seb128, i wont switch ltspfs (which is also widely used in telnet sessions without gui) to mount a hidden dir anywhere ... and i'm also not fond of mounting anywhere in users home dirs (i still wonder how that got past the debian devs for gvfs, i always thought its a general rule to not muck around with homedirs)
<ogra> seb128,  /media is defined as the point to mount user accessible stuff on system level, so ltspfs will go on using it, there is not only gnome in this world :)
<lool> Ok; no particular reason I guess, just no specification and no desire to define this
<cjwatson> I do worry that schemes involving the release name will break just after Ubuntu 17.04 and we'll have to figure something out for that
<seb128> ogra: hum, are those comment in reaction to something written in the bug I pointed right now?
<cjwatson> unfortunately we (I think mistakenly) selected ~name1 rather than ~version.1 as the usual backports scheme
<lool> cjwatson: We do have time, but faced with the same issue I opted for ~804 and +804 version numbers for ume
<lool> For backports and branches respectively
<cjwatson> yeah, no rush, it just needs to be sorted out at some point. FWIW I believe that the security team has appended .8.04.1 in similar circumstances.
<lool> Well ~804um1 etc. to be precice
<ogra> seb128, err, sorry wrong bug number, i didnt look and assumed you mean the duplicate from yesterday
<lool> *precise
<ogra> seb128, (where david suggested to use ~/.ltspfs
<ogra> )
<ogra> seb128, err ... why did david make all this fuss about "omg we cant use access() it will break everything" ??
<ogra> seb128, that 0750 change warren did is moot
<ogra> once its mounted ltspfs will refuse acces even to root
<seb128> because he says that access() can block in case of broken nfs configs, etc
<ogra> only the ownler can look inside
<ogra> seb128, but his last attachment uses it
<seb128> ogra: right, I don't really understand what he did, the comment before the patch was going one level down
<ogra> seb128, the gvfs patch looks ine to me, i can adjust the one line in ltspfs if needed (i really doubt it is for us though)
<ogra> *fine
<lool> pitti: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/hardy/+source/apport/+bug/224168
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 224168 in apport "Breaks in more unionfs use cases" [Undecided,Fix committed]
<lool> pitti: (uploaded)
<seb128> ogra: that's a glib patch, but good ;-)
<ogra> seb128, whatever helps :)
<seb128> ogra: I'll sru that
<ogra> thanks :)
<ogra> i'll test and act accordingly
<seb128> ogra: arg, it goes down one level
<ogra> ?
<seb128> ogra: for /media/ltsp it'll g_access /media
<seb128> g_path_get_dirname() does that
<ogra> there is no /media/ltsp
<ogra> oh
<seb128> that was a mountpoint example
<ogra> it us /media/$USER/<devicename>
<seb128> so that's what he commented before
<ogra> at least in the ltspfs we use
<seb128> you use that naming?
<ogra> yes, since ltspfs exists
<seb128> ok, so it'll stat /media/$USER, does that work for you?
<ogra> yup
<seb128> ok, still it doesn't fix the original bug
<ogra>  /media/$USER also wont exist if ther is no device
<seb128> does using access() on /media/something where /media/something is a nfs mount can block?
<ogra> its created dynamically during the ltspfs mount
<ogra> i doubt that
<seb128> ie, does it look at the local directory permissions or does it try accessing the nfs?
<ogra> we had many nfs home users in feisty edgy and gutsy
<ogra> nobody ever complained that gnome-vfs was any issue
<ogra> the access patch was there since edgy
<seb128> that's what I commented upstream
<stgraber> soren: and a ping to the other computer returns 5 DUPS :) something seems to be wrong with that socket thing
<stgraber> (or me using it not correctly)
<seb128> "It's surely an issue for networked mounts (nfs, autofs, some fuse based stuff)
<seb128> that times out. Then we hang calling access() and as a result GNOME logins etc.
<seb128> will fail when a mount times out because we hang in the volume monitor instance
<seb128> of every process (panel, nautilus, settings daemon all instantiate a volume
<seb128> monitor)."
<seb128> hum
<seb128> I don't know enough about those to know if that's true or not
<seb128> anybody here who has a clue if an access() call on a nfs mountpoint can hang?
<ogra> seb128, we did access() calls with the old patch
<ogra> it didnt hang for three releases
<ogra> i dont think it will just start hanging now
<seb128> maybe you didn't have nfs server timeout or other similar issues?
<seb128> and in case you did that's enough to break ltsp anyway no?
<ogra> seb128, many of my ltsp/edubuntu users use nfs or samba mounted homedirs
<seb128> right, in which case nfs being broken screw your session
<ogra> and the access() call was issued for *every* mount in gnome-vfs with pittis patch
<seb128> would be interesting to test when you have a secondary nfs mount, ie something you don't rely on to use your computer
<seb128> right, but I'm not sure nobody had issues with that
<ogra> all your nfs mounts would always have caused issues
<ogra> if access() really would cause hangs
<ogra> you would have seen it all over the board
<seb128> ogra: ok, what I though but I'm just guessing from the feedback we got and I don't know the topic well enough to argue upstream about that
<ogra> i'm just relying on experience ... LP would drown in nfs bugs if upstream were right
<ogra> since years
<ogra> seb128, i'm not sure how gvfs changed here though that it could start becoming an issue through the new design
<ogra> it definately didnt cause issues in gnome-vfs to use access() on nfs mounts
<seb128> well, my question was really "can an access() call on a nfs mountpoint block"
<seb128> what I would like is to know that, not to guess based on the fact that gnome-vfs might have been handling a blocking call correctly
<ogra> seb128, right, i cant judge the gvfs setup here, i can only judge by experience with gnome-vfs
<ogra> (which has proven that access() alone wont do harm, but the way you use it certainly has influence here)
<seb128> ogra: the question is really about the access() system call, not about gvfs ;-)
<ogra> well, david (proxied through warren) told me that gvfs works differently and gnome-vfs used a separate thread to get the access info for example ... if gvfs is doing it from the main thread and there is a block it might have issues
<seb128> ogra: right, that's what I said
<ogra> seb128, but according to the bug david has checked it in anyway upstream
<seb128> what? the patch?
<seb128> yes, it fixes your ltsp case
<ogra> "Which, for reasons explained above, is the best we can do. So I'm closing this
<ogra> bug as FIXED.
<ogra> "
<ogra> and above comment has a checkin message
<seb128> but it doesn't fix the case from the bug description
<ogra> did you try ?
<seb128> /media/usbkey-uid1000 should not be listed for other users
<seb128> no, I don't need to
<ogra> right
<seb128> the patch call g_access() on /media in this case
<seb128> it'll only work in the /media/$USER/mount ltsp case
<ogra> seb128, why cant the access() call just get a timeount added
<ogra> he just needs to wrap it in a g_timeout ...
<seb128> because the mount listing has to be something fast
<ogra> for access() ?
<seb128> the whole thing
<ogra> well, i mean to avoid a constant blocking
<seb128> you want an async api, but that would complicate things a lot
<seb128> right now you can do a sync call to get the mounts list
<ogra> you call access() anyway .... david says that would block if there is a stale montpoint so just return after a timeout ad gve back "False"
<seb128> and be sure it'll return quickly
<seb128> you don't want nautilus and the panel waiting 30s on a nfs timeout because they refresh the mounts list
<seb128> and doing async operations make things much harder
<ogra> so it either will return quickly or in case of a stale mount wait a second to give it a chance to react and then return false
<ogra> stale nfs mounts are not the regular thing usually
<seb128> right, but now you are turning some clean code to workarounds and they want to avoid that
<ogra> hmm
 * ogra wonders if there isnt a way to determine the owner of a dir without using access() 
<seb128> there is no magically way, if you try to stat a nfs mounted directory you will hand the same way
<seb128> what we need is a way to know what is local and only try on those
<ogra> well, but you said they want to avoid workarounds, th epatch i see now being added operates on the amount of direcory layers ? thats a workaround as well (and less asne imho)
<ogra> *sane
<seb128> I don't say I consider the patch a good idea ;-)
<ogra> unless you have /media on nfs there is no possibility to make it non local with ltspfs
<ogra> ltspfs mounts will always be local for the user POV
<seb128> right, the thing is that we can iter over the media mountpoints
<seb128> you can have
<seb128> usbkey
<seb128> ltspdir
<ogra> and yes, it doesnzt fix the initial issue at all
<seb128> nfs
<seb128> anyway I'll think about it
<ogra> can you check for filesystems of mounts ?
<seb128> the current change will work for ltsp at least
<ogra> ltspfs identifies itself as ltspfs
<seb128> that will not work for fuse mounts for example
<ogra> so special casing is possible at least
<ogra> ltspfs is fuse :)
<ogra> its just a kind of autofs wrapper around it
<dneary> mjg59: Ping?
<dneary> Suspend/resume worked fine with the LiveCD
<cody-somerville> dneary, What about hibernate? :P
<ogra> cody-somerville, is disabled dleiberately
<ogra> (you dont have the button in the ui at least)
 * cody-somerville winks.
<ogra> it could work with enough swapspace and some hacking in casper i bet :)
<cody-somerville> If it wasn't such a useless feature, I'd think about adding support to hibernate to NTFS drives.
<mjg59> dneary: Ok, interesting
<mjg59> dneary: How are you triggering the suspend?
<dneary> I followed the suggestion of someone yesterday who pointed me at a bug report, and created a WORKAROUND file into which I put a suspend line
<dneary> Can't find the exact command now - the link to the bug is in my blog
<dneary> mjg59: Either manually with Fn-Veille, or by shutting the lid
<dneary> With the LiveCD, I tried both
<dneary> Both worked, once I'd configure gnome-power-manager to suspend when shutting the lid
<dneary> There's that thing I tried (deleting the WORKAROUND file now, since the problem's still there): https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/211572
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 211572 in linux "[Hardy] [regression] ehci_hcd.ko breaks suspend-to-ram" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<mjg59> dneary: As root, does pm-suspend work and resume correctly?
<mjg59> dneary: Oh, and you said you had some sort of upgrade issue - are you running the 2.6.24 kernel?
<dneary> dneary@sligo:/etc/pm/config.d$ uname -a
<dneary> Linux sligo 2.6.24-16-386 #1 Thu Apr 10 12:50:06 UTC 2008 i686 GNU/Linux
<mjg59> Yeah, looks right
<dneary> let me try pm-suspend
<dneary> I'll join on IRC on a different machine in 2 secs.
<mjg59> Ok
<ogra> 2.6.25 has the usb persistent patch i heard ...
<bolsh> Hi all
<bolsh> mjg59: I'm ready to try pm-suspend now
<dneary> I just run it, right?
<dneary> Yes, that works
<dneary> So it's starting to look like I have some acpi hang-over from previous releases?
<dneary> And NM is making funny faces at me - it's showing that I've got a wired connection, the wifi indicator light is off
<dneary> but I obviously have wifi, since I can see myself talking
<ion_> Sorry, you're just having a psychotic episode; we're not real.
<mjg59> dneary: Yeah, that's sounding kind of weird
<mjg59> dneary: Try deleting /etc/acpi/sleep.sh and seeing what happens when you select sleep in g-p-m
<dneary> mjg59: I'd send you my laptop, but you probably don't want it, and I kind of need it :)
<mjg59> dneary: Not really my problem as much any more, anyway :)
<dneary> If I did a dpkg -l *acpi*, would you be able to tell me if there were stuff there that shouldn't be?
<mjg59> Nope
<mjg59> Only thing I can remotely think of is to make sure you don't have an s2ram binary installed somehow
<pitti> Riddell, any KDE user: can you confirm bug 212551? apport setu/gids to SUDO_UID and SUDO_GID for opening the browser
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 212551 in apport "Kubuntu Adept [Report Bug] launches Konqueror as root" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/212551
<Riddell> pitti: I'm not sure that's being run through apport
<Riddell> could be just the update tool's crash handler
<pitti> oh
<dneary> mjg59: I have acpi-support installed, which installed the sleep.sh script
<mjg59> dneary: Yeah, that's correct
<mjg59> dneary: My concern is that something's still calling that, which shouldn't happen
<dneary> So is that to be removed?
<dneary> ah
<mjg59> acpi-support is still needed, but the sleep script is legacy
<pitti> seb128: hm, do you have any idea what takes so long in the bootchart of bug 184977?
<ogra> seb128, i wonder if open() would behave differently than stat or access()
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 184977 in gnome-volume-manager "session start takes very long" [Medium,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/184977
<johanbr> mjg59: Isn't there a difference in that the HAL scripts run pm-suspend with some quirks?
<mjg59> johanbr: The quirks are all ignored on i915 and higher
<seb128> pitti: urg, no, usually those are "loopback is not correctly configured" bugs or "one program registered in the session is buggy" (though the buggy registering should not block everything)
<seb128> pitti: I would ask him to try if "ping localhost" is working and maybe to try with an another user account on the same box
<ogra> there is a lot xfce in that bootchart
<cody-somerville> ogra, hmm?
<ogra> seb128, pitti, i would ask him to get away from this desktop mishmash first :)
<dneary> sorry - was away
<dneary> Lots to do today
<pitti> ogra: mishmash?
<pitti> seb128: thanks!
<ogra> pitti, it uses xscreensave, xfwm4 and some xfce-mcs processes in that chart
<ogra> alongside with gnome
<ogra> pitti, i thik its well possible that he for example added xfwm to a .xsession script instead of setting it in gconf so compiz will still kick in and check if it can run to find another WM is running
<ogra> (or via the gnome session dialog, which still leaves gconf pointing to compiz)
<jcwinnie> irc chat for Hardy Heron support is ?
<ScottK> #ubuntu
<jcwinnie> no
<ScottK> Yes
<jcwinnie> nothing there
<ScottK> That's it.
<jcwinnie> just reference to archives
<jcwinnie> Docs say go there, but nothing there
<ScottK> Then you didn't actually go there (check your spelling).
<ScottK> There are 1463 people there right now.
<norsetto> all of which talking at the same time
<jcwinnie> k
<jcwinnie> now I am there
<jcwinnie> sorry for the interruption
<ScottK> No problem.
<norsetto> what do you expect from a kubuntu's user ...
<persia> A desire to join #kubuntu?
<norsetto> persia: nice to see you are still alive
<soren> What on earth does ${*-*} mean in bash?
<seb128> soren: it's a smiley? ;-)
<persia> soren: A list of files containing the '-' character in the current directory
<soren> persia: That's *-*, isn't it?
<persia> Hmm...  Right.
<persia> But ${...ï»¿} should only deliminate a reference, so...
<persia> Err.  delineate
<persia> Err.  Nevermind.  I can't spell.  That thing with lines and separation and stuff.
<soren> I'll ask the author. It looks quite strange.
<persia> And this is in bash, and not embedded somewhere, like in a makefile?
<cjwatson> soren: literally ${*-*}, or ${foo-bar}?
<cjwatson>        ${parameter:-word}
<cjwatson>               Use Default Values.  If parameter is unset or null, the expansion of word is substituted.  Otherwise, the value of parameter is substituted.
<cjwatson> could be that (if you omit the colon, you get a test for a parameter being just unset, rather than unset or null)
<cjwatson> $* expands to all the parameters to the current function or script
<dneary> cjwatson: You need the : for that
<cjwatson> no you don't
<cjwatson> "omitting the colon results in a test only for a parameter that is unset"
<cjwatson> soren: so ${*-*} would mean "$*, or if $* is unset then the expansion of *"
<dneary> you learn something new almost every day
<cjwatson> soren: but it's pretty odd and possibly a mistake
<dneary> Or obfuscation
<MitchM> soren, http://wooledge.org:8000/BashFAQ/073 #this is a good reference.
<cjwatson> note that $* is unset if there are no positional parameters. Try e.g.:
<cjwatson> foo () { echo ${*-a}; }; foo; foo 1 2 3
<cjwatson> so it might actually be a reasonable thing to do if the function within which ${*-*} is used takes filename arguments
<cjwatson> persia: delimit. :-)
<persia> cjwatson: Yes.  Thank you :)
<soren> cjwatson: Ah.. Thanks! I didn't know you could leave the colon out.
<soren> cjwatson: Is that a bash thing or posix sh thing?
<soren> A bash thing, it seems.
<cjwatson> soren: POSIX sh
<soren> Oh, yes, so it is.
<cjwatson> http://www.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/009695399/utilities/xcu_chap02.html#tag_02_06_02 "In the parameter expansions shown previously, use of the colon in the format shall result in a test for a parameter that is unset or null; omission of the colon shall result in a test for a parameter that is only unset."
<soren> Ah, yes, there it is.
<dneary> So - anyone know what happens when I do a suspend in 8.04? Which commands execute which hooks?
<dneary> That is, I've configured power management so that when I shut the lid I suspend, but that's apparently doing rather more than just running pm-suspend - I seem to be pulling in acpi scripts too
<dneary> and they are not playing nively together
<dneary> So I'd like to try & figure out what's calling what to fix it.
<mjg59> dneary: g-p-m calls hal, which executes hal-system-power-suspend-linux
<dneary> mjg59: and hal-system-power-suspend-linux is a script?
<mjg59> Yes
<dneary> Is it possible for two scripts to be subscribed to the same dbus message?
<mjg59> No
<dneary> (assuming g-p-m goes over dbus)
<dneary> OK - so there can be only one HAL script executed, then?
<mjg59> Yeah
<dneary> There's also suspend-hybrid-linux in there
<dneary> what's the difference?
<mjg59> That saves state to disk, then puts the system in suspend to ram
<mjg59> We don't use it
<dneary> 'kay
<ted1> mjg59: Does HAL pull the info out of the FDI files or does hal-system-power-suspend-linux?
<mjg59> hal does
<ted1> So if I add a new FDI file, or change one, I need to restart HAL?
<sjoerd> ted1: hal watches the fdi dirs with inotify
<ted1> Ah, cool.
<sjoerd> ted1: but afaik it doesn't reapply the rules, so i'm not sure if it'll help in your case
<ted1> What do you mean by "reapply the rules"?
<davmor2> Amaranth: are the Questions in classroom-chat transferred manually (we doing a talk tomorrow for the first time)
<hwilde> anybody seen ubotu ?
<cjwatson> yow, devscripts merge => complicated
<cjwatson> hwilde: see drama on ubuntu-irc@
<bdmurray> pitti: is bug 206921 SRU worthy?  I believe it is but want to confirm
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 206921 in hal "MacBook brightness adjustment does not work in Hardy" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/206921
<hwilde> cjwatson, see what where?
<cjwatson> hwilde: http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-irc/
<cjwatson> specifically the "Goodbye" thread
<ompaul> !ubotu
<ubot5> I am ubotu, all-knowing infobot. You can browse my brain at http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi - Usage info: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBots
<hwilde> oh its ubot5 now!
<ompaul> ubot5 is getting an education - not all factoids are in there yet
<ubot5> ompaul: Error: "is" is not a valid command.
<ubot5> ompaul: Error: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
 * ompaul chuckles - case in point
<hwilde> wtf is this nonsense I want ubotu back
<hwilde> somebody owns him and threw a hissy fit ?
<ion_> ubot5: You're in violation of an RFC. Please NOTICE any automatic messages instead of PRIVMSGing them. Kthxbye.
<ubot5> ion_: Error: "You're" is not a valid command.
<ubot5> ion_: Error: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
 * cjwatson takes a lock on the devscripts merge, BTW; I'm partway through but it will take a while
<cjwatson> I'm making some tidy-up changes in the process
<hwilde> I wish somebody would have told me :/
<ompaul> hwilde, you currently the code is being parsed and uploaded to new bot - it should be okay in a few hours
<hwilde> I could have brute force siphoned all of ubotu's knowledge
 * ompaul reads the you and gives up
<hwilde> hehe
<hwilde> it's almost wednesday, don't give up yet
<ompaul> hmm about three and a half hours to go and I have no preparations done for tomorrow where is this week gone argh
<ompaul> woops
<hwilde> ok so if X11 requires gksu instead of sudo, and sudo can cause problems with X11 apps, why isn't that handled automagically ?
<pitti> bdmurray: confirmed; it's a very confined patch to the hw specific backend
<bdmurray> pitti: right, it looked pretty minimal.  should I do anything to move it along?
<pitti> bdmurray: I already modified the bug accordingly, currently applying the patch
<pitti> bdmurray: I have a pending hal SRU, and it wasn't accepted yet, so I'll slip it in
<bdmurray> pitti: great, thanks!
<pitti> bdmurray: committed and uploaded to hardy-proposed, waiting for someone to accept it now
<outworlder> the Chicken Scheme package available in the repositories is too old. What is the procedure that must be followed to get a newer version into the repositories?
<Peter_Hoffmann> Hello everybody. Is there anyone remembering a change in ï»¿"gio" (part of glib) which is in charge of showing icons for mounts on the desktop - in hardy?
<Peter_Hoffmann> Is it possible, that someone changed that gio-thing (mentioned above) and now it shos every mount that ist not in fstab or not mounted by using UUID?
<seb128_> re
<seb128_> Peter_Hoffmann: what is your gio issue?
<Peter_Hoffmann> I do see mounts that are mounted in my homedirectory
<Peter_Hoffmann> see = Icons on my desktop
<seb128> that's how it's supposed to work when using gvfs
<seb128> the mount in your user directory and in media are listed
<Peter_Hoffmann> I discovered that about 1min ago that it's not only /media (that is what everybody tells you) but also /home/$user
<seb128> did you read what I just wrote?
<Peter_Hoffmann> But that changed from 7.10 to 8.04
<seb128> yes, 7.10 was using gnome-vfs
<seb128> GNOME switched to the new gvfs this cycle
<seb128> and 8.04 is using gvfs too
<Peter_Hoffmann> I even asked in #gnome but nobody there thougt of that
<Peter_Hoffmann> so you finaly are the first person that is telling me something supportive :-) Thanks!
<Peter_Hoffmann> I didn't recognice that little detail when I updated
<Nafallo> seb128 rocks :-)
<Peter_Hoffmann> +lol+
<Peter_Hoffmann> Everybody was like: If you don't want to see the icons you have to mount it somewhere else then /media/ and I was like: I do have that but finaly. Another successful day *g*
<LaserJock> seb128: is there then a way to not have specific mounts not show up on the desktop?
<seb128> LaserJock: mount thoses not in your user directory or media, otherwise no
<LaserJock> seb128: but how do you have them not mounted in your user directory?
<seb128> LaserJock: dunno what you are mounting, but "man mount" and read how to change the mount point there?
<LaserJock> seb128: that doesn't help you with removable media does it?
<LaserJock> or automatically mounted stuff in any case
<seb128> LaserJock: removable medias are mounted in media usually
<seb128> you can change the gnome-mount options I guess
<mathiaz> seb128: Bugs file against samba tend to deal with "cannot browse/transfer file to Windows since I've updated to Hardy" these days
<mathiaz> seb128: how should these be handled/marked ?
<mathiaz> seb128: should I open a new task for the nautilus-package ?
<seb128> mathiaz: we have a zillion of those, reject those as duplicates or reassign to gvfs and let us do that for you
<mathiaz> seb128: ok - so I'll reassign to gvfs then
<seb128> you like to give me extra work? ;-)
<mathiaz> seb128: well - I'm not sure they're not completly unrelated to samba
<mathiaz> seb128: some people are using cifs mount in fstab
<seb128> mathiaz: if you want to help figure what is wrong you can ask them those questions:
<seb128> - does it work using smbclient
<seb128> - do you have access to '/' on the server
<seb128> - do you need extra credentials to browse the share, and is it accessible anonymously too
<seb128> if that's a connect to server issue
<seb128> another issue is that you can't enter a password to browse a network
<seb128> the most common issues otherwise is that you can't change your credential if something is accessible anonymously
<seb128> and that the mounting doesn't work when '/' is not available to the user on the server
<mathiaz> seb128: browse a network shouldn't require credential
<seb128> mathiaz: it does sometimes, in case of active directory, etc apparently
<mathiaz> seb128: hum - I should also ask if the issue is on a desktop acting as a client or on a server
<mathiaz> seb128: mmmm - AD.. and browsing ?
<seb128> mathiaz: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gvfs/+bug/207072
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 207072 in nautilus "nautilus does not display samba shares for machines inside an ADS network." [Low,Invalid]
<seb128> mathiaz: read that for details
<mathiaz> seb128: right - I was confused by your usage of browsing
<seb128> ah, sorry
<seb128> how do you call that?
<mathiaz> seb128: to me browsing is when you want to get a list of machines in the same workgroup
<seb128> I use if for list of machines or list of shares on a box
<mathiaz> seb128: you're using browsing as listing the shares available on one machine
<seb128> I use it for both because that's basically "list whatever is available" in both cases
<mathiaz> seb128: right - list of machines is different than list of shares on a machine
<seb128> anyway this bug is one of the known annoying issue
<mathiaz> seb128: right - from the windows networking point of view, the protocal are totally different
<seb128> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gvfs/+bug/223372 is an another one
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 223372 in gvfs "gvfsd-smb mounting requires / to be accessible to the user and should not" [High,Triaged]
<seb128> and we have https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gvfs/+bug/209520 but that is a collection of different issues
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 209520 in nautilus "SMB error: Unable to mount location" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<mathiaz> seb128: ok - I see that you already have loads of bug reports
<mathiaz> seb128: for the bugs filed against samba, I'll ask if smbclient works or not
<seb128> yes
<seb128> I've reassigned some to samba where smbclient was not working
<mathiaz> seb128: if smbclient works correctly, I'll assume it's a problem with gvfs
<seb128> let me know if that's wrong
<mathiaz> seb128: if smbclient doesn't work then I'll keep it open in samba
<seb128> ok
<mathiaz> seb128: I don't think it's wrong - smbclient is a good test to rule out issues with gvfs
<mathiaz> seb128: if smbclient fails, it may be a problem on the server
<mathiaz> seb128: so if smbclient is successfull, which bug number should I use as a duplicate ?
<seb128> right, usually I ask if they can use the share from an another OS or version of ubuntu too
<seb128> mathiaz: as said, either you ask for details or just reassign and I'll do that
<seb128> mathiaz: it's likely one of the issues I listed before
<mathiaz> seb128: ok - thanks
<seb128> mathiaz: np, and you are welcome to look at the gvfs issues if you want ;-)
<seb128_> re
<seb128_> dsl disconnected again
<seb128_> mathiaz: what did you get before?
<mathiaz> seb128_: 17:54 < seb128> mathiaz: np, and you are welcome to look at the gvfs issues if you want ;-)
<seb128_> ok
<seb128_> mathiaz: btw do you now if an access() call on a nfs mountpoint can hang is some cases? or is it only accessing the local directory?
<seb128_> you didn't get this one then ;-)
<mathiaz> seb128_: access() may hang if the nfs server went away
<mathiaz> seb128_: the problem with nfs IIRC is that timeouts are reallly long
<seb128_> doh, ok
<mathiaz> seb128_: like 10 or 15 minutes
<seb128_> that sucks
<mathiaz> seb128_: so it doesn't hang - it just takes a looong time to time out
<seb128_> another gvfs issue
<seb128_> we got a request to not list the mounts not accessible to the user
<seb128_> an easy way is to call access() on the mountpoint
<seb128_> but the current code is not async
<seb128_> so upstream is right, that would not work
<Riddell> pitti: kdebase upload to hardy-proposed needing approval for bug 194474
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 194474 in kdelibs "[hardy] kded in loop (100%CPU) when using 'mount automatically'" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/194474
#ubuntu-devel 2008-04-30
<calc> are we going to have ext4 support in intrepid?
 * calc notices Fedora9 has preliminary support already
<mjg59> calc: Until there are guarantees about the on-disk format being stable, I doubt it
<calc> mjg59: oh so the 2.6.25 merge wasn't the final on-disk format?
<jdong> mjg59: I roughly read that the last on-disk format  changes are being merged into .25?
<jdong> heh he beat me to it
<calc> well 2.6.25 just was released so i suppose they don't really know for certain yet ;)
<mjg59> jdong: The last planned ones
<mjg59> Which doesn't mean there are none
<mjg59> It still registers as ext4dev, rather than ext4
<jdong> mjg59: ah, I see :)
<calc> oh ok
<jdong> mjg59: do you follow ext4 development personally?
<mjg59> Not heavily
<jdong> cool
<dholbach> good morning
<emgent> morning
<dholbach> hi emgent
<emgent> heya dholbach, all ready for intrepid UDS ? :)
<dholbach> yeah :-)
<emgent> go intrepid go heheh
<dholbach> ROCK :-))
<emgent> dholbach: saw http://www.seqfault.de/blog/index.php?/archives/87-Einfach-mal-Danke-sagen.html ?
<dholbach> yeah - that's awesome
 * jdong still awaits his t-shirt with that :D
<emgent> hehehe
<emgent> heya jdong
<emgent> cjwatson o/
<jdong> yo
<dholbach> jdong: nice
<cjwatson> morning
<jdong> ok when you people start waking up it's a sign I need to start sleeping.
 * emgent hungry
<pitti> Good morning
<emgent> heya pitti
<tonyyarusso> Say, anyone know when repos will be opening?  (approx.)
<pitti> Riddell: good, I'll process the queue now every morning anyway :)
<tonyyarusso> jdong: Same :)
<ogra> emgent, !
<ogra> emgent, impressing
 * tonyyarusso is amused that he's on the list of people in that pic, and therefore would consider buying such a t-shirt if it existed
<zul> tonyyarusso: im guessing when its ready :)
<tonyyarusso> hehe, likely
<emgent> ogra: ?
<pwnguin> jdong: the more curious question is, where do these people who sleep normal hours come from?
<ogra> emgent, the link :)
<emgent> oh lol :)
<ogra> :)
 * bimberi sees his name and dances a little jig
<bimberi> right in the middle of "Thank" :)
<cjwatson> tonyyarusso: matter of days
<cjwatson> tonyyarusso: the toolchain is well in progress
<tonyyarusso> cjwatson: ah, cool
<bryce> slangasek: question for you - for 8.04.1 would updates to the binary drivers -nvidia and -fglrx be possible, or is that too much risk?
<bryce> (I don't have a strong opinion, but if it's not feasible, I'll un-milestone bugs that would require such updates)
<cjwatson> we're in discussions with AMD about fglrx, for the record; I asked in the last call if we might be able to push back on intrusive changes and get a minimally-branched version, though haven't had an answer on that yet
<cjwatson> (our discussions with AMD are unfortunately NDAed)
<bryce> cjwatson: ok we can talk more on it tomorrow
<cjwatson> oh, meh, yeah, we have a call this afternoon
<bryce> cjwatson: I guess EnvyNG is also available as an option now
<cjwatson> bryce: anything special for it?
<cjwatson> (the call, that is)
<bryce> cjwatson: not from my end
<bryce> cjwatson: I think their engineers have "can't reproduce"'d the five bugs I sent to them
<slangasek> bryce: IMHO yes, binary driver updates are something we need to be able to accomodate in the SRU policy elsewise so there's no reason fglrx/nvidia shouldn't be candidates so long as we get reasonable SRU verification
<slangasek> s/binary driver/black box executable/
<bryce> slangasek: ok good to know.
<pitti> bryce: BTW, Alberto prepared some l-r-m-envy packages, I'll take a look at them today
<pitti> bryce: bug 221304 FYI
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 221304 in envyng-core "EnvyNG installs Ubuntu's lrm but it should install its own packages" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/221304
<bryce> pitti: excellent
<pitti> bryce: we should also think about backporting some new jockey features to hardy once they land in intrepid
<pitti> bryce: like proposing new drivers for pinpointed hardware (not generally upgrading fglrx for everyone)
<pitti> bryce: but that's way post-UDS
 * bryce nods
<bryce> pitti: being able to install one version of -fglrx for some hardware and a different version for other hardware would solve one or two wishlist bugs too
<pitti> argh, hardy isn't released for a week, and already the first ABI bump in -proposed? *sob*
<Hobbsee> haha
<Hobbsee> i'ts the crack.
 * tonyyarusso guesses there will be more changes than usual between now and 8.04.1
<pitti> tonyyarusso: yes, absolutely, since we throw a lot of resources at it
<tonyyarusso> Right, and the fact that there are certain things (ie, Firefox) that are a big deal and will certainly need them.
<slangasek> pitti: I think our choices were to have it the week after release, or the week of RC ;)
<pitti> slangasek: BTW, would you have a chance to look at the hardy-proposed jockey upload? it currently breaks X for people without an xorg.conf
<slangasek> pitti: "it currently" -> "the version in hardy"?
<pitti> slangasek: yes
<seb128> tonyyarusso: do you have specific firefox issues in hardy?
<slangasek> pitti: ok - will look, yes
<pitti> slangasek: thanks; I mailed you about it with some details yesterday
<pitti> slangasek: I just wasn't sure whom to bother for my own SRUs
<tonyyarusso> seb128: One minor one that I notice most of the time, but I was under the impression that the point release will include the FF3 final - is that incorrect?
<pitti> slangasek: (erm, s/whom/who/, right?)
<slangasek> whom is correct :)
<pitti> argh, Launchpad, where are thou??
<seb128> tonyyarusso: it'll be considered yes, can't say for sure until saying what they actually change and if that's suitable for a stable update, but that should be alright
<seb128> s/saying/seeing
<seb128> tonyyarusso: but you say that's a big deal, so you have real issues right now?
<cjwatson> seb128: the URL classifier is a fairly major one, I think
<tonyyarusso> seb128: makes sense.  As far as current issues, the most prominent throughout the cycle has been the some images showing black at certain resizings.  Haven't tested in FF since release though, only Ephy.
<seb128> tonyyarusso: those were due to xorg and should be fixed in hardy
<seb128> cjwatson: not denying there is some issues, I was just curious to know if tonyyarusso has some specifics one or if the comment was just about hardy having a candidate version rather than the official stable one
 * StevenK thinks of Gimp in Gutsy
<seb128> StevenK: you have been marked by this one apparenly ;-)
<tonyyarusso> seb128: hmm, had one earlier today in ephy, so if it's xorg I would think that had gone away.  I'm not going to pretend my testing has been sufficient to say anything for sure though, and my environment is far from clean, given that it's been continuously upgraded since the repos opened.  I note that https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/xorg-server/+bug/182038 does indeed claim fix released.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 182038 in xulrunner-1.9 "Black rectangle instead of image in FF3 [Hardy]" [Medium,Fix released]
<StevenK> seb128: There's no apparently about it ;-)
<seb128> heh
<tonyyarusso> That "is it ready for my girlfriend" posted raised a handful of legitimate points as well.
<pitti> does launchpad.net work for other people? it's just stuck for me
<seb128> pitti: works for me but I'm using edge
<stgraber> pitti: edge WFM
<seb128> let me try the normal one
<pitti> right, in fact it's edge that's stuck for me; https://launchpad.net WFM
<pitti> seb128: nevermind, edge it is
<seb128> pitti: yes, works fine
<pitti> hmm
 * pitti blames his ISP them
<tonyyarusso> pitti: WFM too.
<StevenK> Argh, more langpacks
<pitti> ah, seems it came back now
<Hobbsee> heh
<Hobbsee> StevenK: what do you want in front of them?
<Hobbsee> ubottu: bug 5
<ubottu> Hobbsee: Error: "bug" is not a valid command.
<Hobbsee> bug 6
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 6 in rosetta ""next 10 entries" at bottom of page" [Medium,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/6
<Hobbsee> oh good.
<Hobbsee> it mostly works, then
<StevenK> Hobbsee: python-central in the ubuntu-mobile PPA
<ogra> pitti, you had an outage too ?
<pitti> ogra: yes
<ogra> seems somewhere in the telekom network a router fell over
<ogra> i cant reach canonical irc atm
<tonyyarusso> Say, what would be the "proper" way of drumming up support for a Blueprint if it's been pretty much ignored so far?
 * Hobbsee fiddles, flicks a few switches
<StevenK> Hobbsee: thallium has picked it up, thanks
<StevenK> (thallium is an element? Blink)
<ogra> tonyyarusso, send money to people :)
<ogra> tonyyarusso, beer is also a ood bribe
<ogra> *good
<tonyyarusso> ogra: You know, I could do that, although it would only be a token bit of funding, not a fair rate for their time.
<Hobbsee> StevenK: your python-central is served.
<Hobbsee> StevenK: enjoy
<tonyyarusso> I'm told telepathy (which wasn't really mainstream when I first had the thought) should make it a lot easier.
<ogra> dear deutsche telekom, please fix your network !
<stgraber> :)
<ogra> *sigh*
<ogra> firt the routing was f*cked ... now the DNS is gone
<ogra> *first
<stgraber> ogra: use opendns, those are fast and usually reliable
<ogra> raaaaah
<Company> the trick is to not use telekom
<Company> and to not use arcor
<ogra> did anyone ever try to paste an IP in the xchat serverlist ?
<ogra> its impossible by design
<ogra> unbelivable
<ogra> (as soon as you click an entry it automatically gets the selection and wipes the paste buffer)
<stgraber> ogra: use irssi, this one let you connect to IPs :)
<\sh> ogra, don't you have any cable tv provider next to your house?
<ogra> Company, i have a buisness SDSL line, there is no other provider offering that at a feasable price
<\sh> ogra, and xchat works here with an ip address ,-)
<ogra> \sh, i dont get the upload rates i need at iesy
<\sh> ogra, sdsl? qsc?
<ogra> and i didnt mean to use an ip
<ogra> i men to copy paste an ip in the server list instead of the server name
<ogra> thats impossible
<ogra> you have to type it in any case
<\sh> well, xchat is evil anyways ,-)
<ogra> since selecting the entry will wipe your paste buffer
<\sh> ogra, more funny, you enter anything into the serverlist, and if you don't press <tab> key, and click on "ok" it throws away the change
<ogra> \sh, i have a 2 year contract with telekom with guaranteed uptimes and direct support (no call center)
<ogra> i.e. a business line
<\sh> ogra, but telekom...
<ogra> \sh, yeah, thats another oddity
<ogra> (serverlist)
 * \sh ports kmyirc to gnome and python...so everything'll be fixed in the future ,-)
<ogra> heh
<ogra> well, i usually dont have probs with xchat
<ogra> since i rarely change the config :)
 * \sh fights with bacula...
<ogra> Spads, are there known probs with irc.c.c ? it kicks me out all the time after some seconds
<Spads> ogra: no known problems I can see
<ogra> hmm, ok, must be my side then
<Spads> anyway this is a question for #canonical-sysadmins, not here
<ogra> Spads, oh, sorry
<Spads> ogra: that said, I'll just point out that I'm having some net connection problems here at home, so it may be that there's some general routing problems in europe right now
<ogra> yeah
<ogra> i had some before already
<ogra> then DNS didnt resolve anything outside of germany ...
<ogra> now it looks like its back but i get kicked out all the time ... probably not over yet
 * ogra wil just wait
<ogra> *will
<Spads> yeah, I'm getting *terrible* packet loss right out of the gate here
<cjwatson> mvo: noticed in python-apt:
<cjwatson>     locale = os.getenv("LANG", default="en.UK")
<cjwatson> mvo: shouldn't that be en_GB? UK isn't a valid country code
<cjwatson> (not that it matters much, since most people will have LANG set)
<mvo> cjwatson: that looks wrong, let me check that
<cjwatson> mvo: discovered while trying to figure out where bug 221644 lived
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 221644 in python-apt "ftp.caliu.info mirror borked" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/221644
<mvo> cjwatson: I was wondering why you digged into those dusty corners in pyhton-apt ;) the mirror list ist just a file, if the mirror is dead, I can remove it from the list and prepare a sru
<bolsh> mjg59: I've been following DebuggingGNOMEPowerManager - a nice read
<bolsh> Sending the message directly to DBus, things work fine
<bolsh> They also work fine via the "Quit" menu item, and the "Suspend" button now
<bolsh> I did a recursive-reset of GPM settings to make sure I wasn't using some old settings
<bolsh> Closing the lid still has the same problem
<bolsh> I don't understand
<cjwatson> mvo: how do you keep it up to date? ideally I'd have a full list in choose-mirror too
<mvo> cjwatson: I have a small script that gets them from launchpad, give me a sec, I dig it out
<cjwatson> if you could mail it to me that'd be lovely
<mvo> sure
<bolsh> Anyone know a magical dbus-send incantation to turn on a backlight?
<fs_> hello
<fs_> i need some help with the ubuntu kernel build proccess
<fs_> am i at the right place here?
<dholbach> fs_: try #ubuntu-kernel
<ogra> fs_, #ubuntu-kernel might be better
<fs_> ok
<pitti> doko: any idea about http://launchpadlibrarian.net/14036302/buildlog_ubuntu-intrepid-i386.cdbs_0.4.52ubuntu1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz ?
<doko> pitti: not yet, have to look
 * hunger wonders whether he should switch to intrepid...
<cjwatson> if you enjoy having a broken system
<cjwatson> (it won't be broken right now, but will be as soon as we start the autosync)
<Hobbsee> i can't believe i'm actually pondering not running intrepid until alpha 5 or so.
 * ogra usually upgrades a week after uds
<RAOF> Hobbsee: WHy is that?
<hunger> will hardy is sooo boring. No new packages, nothing:-(
<ogra> hunger, you could fix bugs for 8.04.1 ;)
<RAOF> Do you have something _useful_ to do with your computer, or other crazy reason?
<Hobbsee> RAOF: undecided how much dev work i'll end up doing.  although presumably i'll start with gnome stuff.
<ogra> that will give you even new packages in -updates
<Hobbsee> RAOF: not overly.  the stupid uni ports stuff means there's no point taking it there
<hunger> ogra: Nah, that is your job. I do report bugs, but I don't have the time to fix them for you.
<ogra> hunger, but yu have time to be bored by missing updates ? come on :)
<hunger> Well, actually I only report bugs when they are more pain to me than using LP:-)
<RAOF> Hobbsee: Hm.
<Hobbsee> hunger: there is a mail interface.
<RAOF> It won't be the same without you ;)
<Hobbsee> no, no Long Pointy Stick of DOOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!â¢
<Hobbsee> ogra: that was my old habit.
<hunger> ogra: Well, usually you do not break stuff that really manages to stop me from using my toy-box.
<hunger> ogra: And managing my own packages (like git-core which is too old in hardy) takes time as well.
<cjwatson> at the risk of stating the obvious, anyone in #ubuntu-devel is at least implicitly accepting responsibility for doing some development. :-)
 * ogra adds a if [ "$(id -un)" = "hunger" ]; do break_in_mysterous_ways .... to all his packages 
<ogra> err
<ogra> s/do/then
<hunger> ogra: Feel free to do that.
<ogra> heh
<hunger> ogra: IRC_nick != login_name ;-)
<slytherin> Can anyone please comment if bug 199116 will qualify for SRU?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 199116 in vinagre "Can not send 'Ctrl+Alt+Del'" [Unknown,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/199116
<Riddell> what's the ubuntu xrandr tool called?
<Mithrandir> the xrandr tool is called xrandr.
<cjwatson> hmm, I've had two reports of bug 221635 now
<mvo> Riddell: you probably want gnome-display-properties
<ubottu> cjwatson: Error: Could not parse data returned by Launchpad: The read operation timed out
<ogra> lp seems down
<cjwatson> just slow
<ogra> or extra slow at least
<pitti> just worked up to 30 seconds ago, now it's stuck here, too
<cjwatson> I'd love to know why a signal handler installed with sigaction (SIGCHLD, ...) is getting signum != SIGCHLD
<cjwatson> anyone have any idea what might be going on there?
<ogra> slytherin, where is the fix in that bug ?
<slytherin> ogra: I am preparing it with the patch in upstream bugzilla.
<ogra> without patch nobody can tell you if it justifies for an SRU :)
<slytherin> ogra: Ok. I will create the fix, test the package myself and then upload the debdiff.
<seb128_> slytherin: GNOME 2.22.2 will be uploaded to hardy so you might want to not bother and wait a few weeks
<ogra> oh, there is an upstream task on it, right
<slytherin> seb128_: I will have to ask vinagre maintainer if he is going to do a release before that. Meanwhile I will provide a fix in my ppa anyway for those in need. Is that fine?
<ogra> slytherin, the upstream bug already has a commit entry
<seb128_> right
<seb128_> it'll not be fixed in stable though
<ogra> no need to put work into it
<ogra> seb128_, no SRU ?
<seb128_> since it breaks the string freeze apparently
<seb128_> ogra: not sure if we have a sru policy about not breaking translations in stable
<ogra> +  { "MachineSendCtrlAltDel", GTK_STOCK_ABOUT, N_("Send CtrlAltDel"), NULL,
<seb128_> ogra: +    N_("Send Ctrl+Alt+Del to active connection"), G_CALLBACK (vinagre_cmd_machine_send_ctrlaltdel) },
<ogra> if you drop "Send" its working for most langs
<seb128_> ogra: not really, and it would be ugly
<ogra> indeed
<seb128_> my point is upstream will not fix it in GNOME 2.22.2 so yes we need to sru it if we want the change
<seb128_> though I'm not decided if breaking translations in stable is a good idea
<seb128_> or adding new strings in this case
<seb128_> I guess we will have regular language pack updates so if it's done early before 8.04.1 why not
<slytherin> seb128_: ogra: As of now, the fix is made in 2.23.x branch in upstream svn. I will write mail to upstream author asking if it will be available in the version in GNOME 2.22.2.
<ogra> slytherin, seb explained before that its not suitable for an SRU
<ogra> it breaks translations
<slytherin> ogra: But if it is part of GNOME 2.22.2, then it is fine right?
<ogra> it isnt
<ogra> read what seb128_ wrote above
<slytherin> ogra: I read it, but I misunderstood
<ogra> slytherin, the transaltion thing has to be clearified before a decision can be made at al
<slytherin> ogra: Ok. For now I will just upload the package to  my ppa.
<xivulon> Hi all, is there any russian here? I would like a second opinion on bug #220112
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 220112 in wubi "Default keyboard variant for Russian ought to be "winkeys"" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/220112
<seb128_> slytherin: do you think it's an import feature or something many users requested?
<cjwatson> xivulon: surely that's a console-setup bug rather than anything wubi-specific
<ogra> seb128_, you need ctrl-alt-del for windows logins
<slytherin> seb128_: in my opinion it is regression because xvncviewer has option to send ctrl + alt + del. And from my experience using vnc for last 4 years, you need it 70% of the time. :-)
<cjwatson> xivulon: ah, never mind, already filed on console-setup
<seb128_> slytherin: doing a sru seems to be a good idea then
<seb128_> slytherin: we want those sort of fixes for 8.04.1 and it can be translated in rosetta if uploaded soon enough
<slytherin> seb128_: Ok. I have created a package and testing it. How do I update .pot file?
<seb128_> the package uses cdbs and the gnome rule so it's done automatically
<seb128_> you just need to make sure the source is listed in the POTFILES.in
<slytherin> seb128_: I will be back in 20 minutes. Will get back if I have probolem.
<seb128_> ok
<seb128_> you can just look to the pot after the build and make sure it contains the new strings
<xivulon> 00000419
<xivulon> cjwatson, is it ok if I set it invalid for wubi then? When I see windows keyboard #00000419 I will only preseed local=ru without variant
<xivulon> locale=ru
<xivulon> which is what I am doing already
<cjwatson> xivulon: if Windows has two different keyboard layouts, one of which corresponds to ru and one of which corresponds to ru:winkeys, then there would be a reason to do something in wubi
<cjwatson> xivulon: otherwise, just console-setup/layoutcode=ru is appropriate, and wubi shouldn't override it
<xivulon> yeah that is what I asked, but had no reply. From what I can gather 00000419=ru+winkeys, not sure if there is another code for ru-winkeys. But I would doubt it
<xivulon> since normally windows code for explicit variants are a bit different
<slytherin> seb128: 2 questions. 1. I have built the package with 'dpkg-buildpackage -b' and tested it. The .pot change doesn't reflect in debdiff, is that fine? 2. Should I have release as 'hardy-proposed' in changelog?
<tkamppeter> pitti, hi
<tkamppeter> Riddell, hi
<dneary> Hi Till
<tkamppeter> dneary, hi
<dneary> Should acpid and apmd both be activated in 8.04 for power management to work?
<dneary> I'm struggling with https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/223848
<ubottu> dneary: Error: Could not parse data returned by Launchpad: The read operation timed out
<ogra> apmd is a noop usually
<dneary> I'm also struggling to figure out why a printer shared by a Mac, which worked fine until I upgraded, is no longer getting automatically picked up
<ogra> only there for systems that actually do apm, else it wont even start up
<dneary> I'm working around the suspend issue, my remaining issues are the printer and sound (which isn't working at all)
<dneary> ogra: So there's no harm in leaving it checked, then?
<Riddell> hi tkamppeter
<ScottK> Riddell: Who is your relief today for the archive?  I missed one package yesterday (I'll upload it in a moment).
<Riddell> ScottK: seb128, but I can do it
<ogra> dneary, checked ? where ?
<ScottK> Riddell: Thanks.  I'll ping you after it's uploaded then.
<dneary> ogra: In System->Administration->Services
<ogra> ah, yes
<ogra> its automated, you can leave it on
<dneary> OK, printer OK
<dneary> Next: sound
<shashi>  I am using Ubuntu 8.04 64-bit version, if i install any 32-bit applications like browsers, datbase clients ...etc. The 32-bit based applications not able to reach /etc/resolv.conf file to communicate to the network. Any one tell me how to resolve this issue ?
<Hobbsee> shashi: this is not a support channel, and you have no need to put it into multiple channels at once
<Hobbsee> shashi: please read the /topic.
<ScottK> Riddell: claws-mail uploaded to gutsy-backports, please accept it.  I'd also appreciate it if you would backport devscripts from Intrepid to Hardy (I've tested it - can file a bug if you want it).
<dneary> hmmm
<dneary> alsamixer looks fine
<dneary> But even catting a wav to /dev/audio doesn't give me any noise
<Riddell> ScottK: done
<ScottK> Riddell: Thanks.
<fta> doko, it seems gcc 4.2 is not upgradable in intrepid without trashing a part of gnome. is it just me or is it a known issue ?
<cjwatson> it seems a little early to be worried about upgradeability in intrepid
<cjwatson> it's going to be much more spectacularly broken soon enough, for a while
<Hobbsee> cjwatson: except for any of those who are insane enough to run it.
<wgrant> cjwatson: Hardy was never particularly broken.
 * \sh loves xorg breakage ... regarding one of our last cycles while our Xorg maintainers were transforming xorg into something better ,-)
<dneary> Did anything replace logrotate in 7.10?
<dneary> I have some huge log files (messages, syslog, debug.log, daemon.log) that should have been rotated out by now.
<doko> I assume that's the wrong external dependency of python-gobject on libffi4
<fta> doko, looks like it
<fta> doko, or libffi4 itself
<tkamppeter> Riddell, are you already in contact with Alex and Lars?
<Tonio_> hi
<Riddell> tkamppeter: lars yes, we had a good chat yesterday evening, he seems to know what to do
<Riddell> tkamppeter: alex I'm yet to hear from
<Tonio_> is there a way to invoke language-selector the command line way only (without a X session) ?
<Riddell> tkamppeter: lars is on #openusability
<tkamppeter> Riddell, Lars has already done good work for the new foomatic-rip, which is the most important point to let Intrepid use PDF as standard print job data format. I was VERY content with him.
<dneary> OK - so it's still logrotate, it's run through cron.daily, which would run if my computer wasn't suspended overnight, and there doesn't seem to be any recipe to rotate syslog, daemon.log, kern.log, debug, auth.log, or messages
<tkamppeter> Riddell, you are chatting there currently with him? Will enter the channnel.
<tkamppeter> Riddell, what about Alex, did you contact him and he did not answer or what is the problem?
<fta> doko, 4.2.3-4ubuntu1 doesn't seem to be complete.  http://paste.ubuntu.com/8924/  are those libs no longer built ?
<Amaranth> pedro_: can you renew my membership to ubuntu-bugcontrol?
<pedro_> Amaranth: no way!
<Amaranth> haha
<doko> fta: no
<pedro_> Amaranth: give me a min ;-)
<Amaranth> thanks :)
<dneary> Anyone mind sending me their default /etc/logrotate.conf, please?
<pedro_> Amaranth: you're welcome, it's done now :-)
<Amaranth> pedro_: woohoo, now i can keep marking serious usability bugs as wishlist
<pedro_> hahaha
<dneary> OK - I think the sound problem is fixed
<tkamppeter> pitti, hi
<pitti> hey tkamppeter, how are you?
<tkamppeter> fine.
<tkamppeter> I want to know about bug 217787.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 217787 in samba "cups crashes when using web-gui and refuses to print" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/217787
<tkamppeter> pitti, If the user has not pam_smbpass installed, CUPS does not work correctly for him, if he has this PAM module installed, CUPS crashes in the module.
<fta> doko, no as in "it's a wanted change" or no as in "it's a bug". It seems to me that your "regenerate control file" was a bit too aggressive. all the libs are correctly built but they no longer have a deb associated.
<doko> fta: no, it's not a bug, the soname did change
<fta> doko, eh?? i'm talking about this: http://paste.ubuntu.com/8944/  seems to be much more than a soname change
<fta> or did i miss something?
<lool> E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg received a segmentation fault.
<lool> Just after unpacking sudo
<lool> pitti: ^
<lool> And no crash report, damn
<pitti> lool: ugh, dpkg crash?
<lool> Yeah
<pitti> lool: do you have apport enabled?
<lool> yes
<lool> I'm trying it again
<lool> This time, it's stuck
<lool> Or busy for a long while
<lool> Hmm dmesg wont run, but I can run top; weird
<lool> The system is foobar
<pitti> that seems seriously screwed
<pitti> lool: (FUBAR, you mean? :-) )
 * lool reboots
<lool> pitti: DÃ©paquetage de la mise Ã  jour de sudo ...
<lool> Erreur de segmentation
<lool> (segfault)
<lool> reproducable
<lool> And still no crash
 * pitti removes ~/ubuntu/sudo/debian/patches/dpkg_overflow_exploit.patch
<lool> pitti: but kill -segving a bash does produce a crash file
<pitti> lool: anything in /var/log/apport.log? does the dpkg crash at leats appear there?
<lool> No
<lool> pitti: Could it be that dpkg registers a segv handler?
<lool> I don't know how the kernel machinery works
<pitti> lool: theoretically yes, but the stderr output looks fairly standard
<pitti> lool: do you get a segfault in dmesg?
 * pitti dist-upgrades to sudo hardy-proposed
<lool> I get an OOPS in dmesg indeed
<lool> So it's kernel stuff
<lool> [  125.486444] invalid opcode: 0000 [#1] SMP
<lool> http://paste.ubuntu.com/8947/
<ogra> hmm, i didnt get sudo offered even with the latest update
<cjwatson> dpkg doesn't handle SEGV
<mjg59> lool: I blame unionfs
<lool> mjg59: Very likely
<lool> invalid opcode is weird; is this a kind of code overwrite consequence?
<pitti> dist-upgrade worked fine here (hardy + -proposed, amd64)
<pitti> ah, unionfs
<lool> Someone running the live CD could try pulling sudo from hardy-proposed
<mjg59> lool: That's it hitting a BUG_ON statement
<lool> For fun and profit of course
<lool> mjg59: Ok
<mjg59> So it's because the kernel's got into a state which ought to be impossible
<lool> So I dump that in a bug report or is someone here interested in my providing more info?
<mjg59> That's probably the best you can do right now
<lool> unionfs -> linux-ubuntu-modules-2.6.24 I guess
<ogra> lool, checking on a classmate, gimme some mins ...
<ogra> lool, same
<lool> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-ubuntu-modules-2.6.24/+bug/224754
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 224754 in linux-ubuntu-modules-2.6.24 "BUG ON crash probably due to unionfs when installing sudo update with dpkg" [High,New]
<lool> ogra: Thanks for reproducing
 * ogra adds a me too to the bug
<lool> hrwsr-xr-x root/root         0 2008-04-30 11:39 ./usr/bin/sudo lien vers ./usr/bin/sudoedit
<lool> Could it be the weird permissions?
<lool> Other links have:
<lool> hrw-r--r-- root/root         0 2008-04-30 11:39 ./usr/share/man/man8/sudoedit.8.gz lien vers ./usr/share/man/man8/sudo.8.gz
<ogra> urgh
<ogra> now my termonal doesnt take input
<lool> ogra: Oh it will hose your host, sorry
<ogra> lool, doesnt matter, i'm surrounded by classmates, i can just take another one ;)
<ogra> where do you see these permissions ?
<ogra> mine seem ok
<ogra> -rwsr-xr-x root root .....
<lool> ogra: dpkg-deb -c on sudo.deb
<ogra> ah
<ogra> i dont have a h there
<ogra> oh, i do
<ogra> looked at the wrong file
<ogra> does unionfs not like hardlinks ?
<lool> we shouldn't be shipping hard links in packages
<lool> Yeah, it's a hard link on my desktop
<mjg59> lool: Why not?
<lool> mjg59: I think it's against policy
<lool> Just like device files
<lool> But this is from memory, ICBW
<mjg59> lool: Seems to be a should rather than an absolute, but I'd be interested to know the reasoning
<ogra> hm, hard links dont work across different filesystems, right ?
<ogra> which is exactly what unionfs tries here i bet
<mjg59> ogra: No, but unionfs should still cope
<lool> I see nothing current in policy
<mjg59> lool: 12.1
<lool> Only prevents you to use hardlinks with conffiles
<lool> And source packages
<mjg59> lool: Seems to be specific to manpages
<lool> Oh and man pages
<lool> mjg59: man pages and other stuff
<lool> mjg59: I do recall some package (lirc I think) has a RC for shipping device files, but that's another story
<mjg59> If it's in the same directory, it shouldn't be a problem
<lool> Agreed
<ogra> shipping device files ?
<ogra> thats just crazy
<lool> So hmm do we have unionfs hackers around
<lool> Cause it's the second high impact bug with unionfs and we currently plan to ship with unionfs on the devices...
<ogra> aufs ftw in intrepid :)
<ogra> even though we dont have hot aufs hackers either
<ogra> lets see what #ubuntu-kernel has to say :)
<\sh> ogra, shipping device files, or actually creating device files during make run was in former times the standard behaviour ,-)
<ogra> \sh, udev is used since when ?
<ogra> :)
<\sh> ogra, well, it wasn't there in SuSE Slackware Nov./94 :)
<ogra> lool, do you actually do updates on the MID by default ? (on top of the unionfs)
<ogra> i dont think it will break if the hardlink is inside the rofs only
<lool> ogra: Yes we do
<lool> Or rather we will
<pochu> do we have overrides for sections as Debian have?
<pochu> or do we trust debian/control?
<ogra> you must have plenty of space
 * ogra is envious
<lool> ogra: Good point
 * Daviey had some major problems with unionfs that didn't show in aufs..
<lool> ogra: We actually do that to save space
<ogra> updates ?
<lool> ogra: But I realize how silly it is
<ogra> you have the same apps twice then
<lool> ogra: We want the standard image to fit on small disks
<ogra> one in rofs and once in cow
<lool> But if you take into account the place taken by the updates, you lose a lot of space
<ogra> yeah, i understand i have similar probs on the cmpc
<lool> Depends on the amount of updates to the base system and for how long
<lool> But it's going to be interesting after some kernel updates
<lool> Hmm that's though to reconcile
<lool> I can only propose to drop unionfs, but then we wont ever make the disk space commitments in time
<ogra> well, i have /var and /boot on real partitions on the cmpc
<ogra> (/var on ext3 speeds up the package tools immensely)
<ogra> they are nearly unusable on unionfs
<lool> They work decently here
<ogra> lucky you
<lool> Well it's slow to read the list of installed files/packages
<ogra> g-a-i never returns from reading its package lists if i run it on unionfs and have universe enabled ...
<Hobbsee> holy cow.
<ogra> at some point the device just dies on IO
 * Hobbsee starts going thru the moderation lists
<ogra> luckily putting var away saves my butt here :)
<Hobbsee> looks like more people are forging the address to spam
<Hobbsee> right.  moderation queue done.
<Hobbsee> cjwatson: you may want to put in spam rules for 'Delivery Status Notification (Failure)' and 'failure notice' and 'Undelivered Mail Returned to Sender' etc, on that list
<Hobbsee> (u-d@)
 * Hobbsee can now go to bed
<cjwatson> Hobbsee: I actually filed an RT request the other day asking for postmaster@ and mailer-daemon@ to be discarded across the board
<cjwatson> which should cover mostly the same thing
<Hobbsee> cjwatson: ah yes, that would help, too
<emgent> heya people
<crop[linuxforum]> Hello all
<crop[linuxforum]> Are there anything known about 8.10: when it will be, main goals e.t.c?
<ogra> obviously in october as the version tells you
<ogra> goals will be defined at the developer summit
<crop[linuxforum]> ogra, thank you:-) I will watch for development of 8.10
<mathiaz> slangasek: I've going through the samba bugs - it seems there is an issue with ucf
<mathiaz> slangasek: there are a couple of post-install failed - they seems all related to the ucf prompt
<slangasek> mathiaz: bug #s?
<CarlFK> if ntp.ubuntu.com seems to off by about 30 seconds (as is another stratum2), should I bother anyone here about it?
<cjwatson> CarlFK: #canonical-sysadmin
<CarlFK> thanks
<ion_> Canonical might as well be running a stratum 1 server. :-)
<nxvl> did someone knows who is in charge of shop.canonical.com?
<mathiaz> slangasek: bug 221427, bug 221526, bug 221963, bug 223971, bug 224061, bug 224567
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 221427 in samba "package samba-common 3.0.28a-1ubuntu4 failed to upgrade from Gutsy to Hardy" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/221427
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 221526 in samba "package swat 3.0.28a-1ubuntu4 failed to install/upgrade: " [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/221526
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 221963 in samba "package samba-common 3.0.28a-1ubuntu4 failed to install/upgrade: " [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/221963
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 223971 in samba "could not install amba Common, upgrade will continue but samba package could be in a not working state" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/223971
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 224061 in samba "package samba-common 3.0.28a-1ubuntu4 failed to install/upgrade: " [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/224061
<slangasek> mathiaz: 221526 says 'swat', which is unrelated to ucf
<slangasek> mathiaz: the term.log on #221963 is very interesting :)
<Caesar> slangasek: #216990 is turning into a real bobby dazzler, eh?
<mathiaz> slangasek: yeah - seems like an issue between ucf and the gnome-frontend
<slangasek> mathiaz: really, it looks to me like he had a non-pristine smb.conf, chose 'start a new shell to examine the situation', and then manually killed the frontend for whatever reason
<slangasek> Caesar: I'm not sure what a bobby dazzler is, so I'm just going to nod fervently in agreement
<Caesar> slangasek: rip-snorter?
<slangasek> there we go :)
<mathiaz> slangasek: well - bug 224061 has the same issue
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 224061 in samba "package samba-common 3.0.28a-1ubuntu4 failed to install/upgrade: " [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/224061
<slangasek> mathiaz: that one doesn't look like the same bug; actually 224061 is one I've seen before, ucf seems to do something totally nonintuitive and broken when the only differences are whitespace :/
<slangasek> mathiaz: so we need to fix that in ucf
<mathiaz> slangasek: right - some of these bugs are related to ucf rather than samba
<mathiaz> slangasek: samba doesn't use ucf is some wired ways - so I'll reassign the bugs to ucf
<slangasek> ok
<slangasek> I'm not sure 221963 is any bug that we can fix; I can't see what we should do differently if the user kills the frontend in X
 * cjwatson wonders if http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/tmp/lp-bug-notify.png is something anyone else wants to have
<cjwatson> the notification, that is
<mathiaz> slangasek: it seems there are are two issues - the one were the user had a root prompt and did an exit
<soren> Possibly. procmail+notify-send?
<cjwatson> procmail plus bizarre lash-up plus notify-send, but right
<mathiaz> slangasek: and then further down, the one where ucf prompted for the potential action
<cjwatson> it actually goes through the irssi notification system I set up earlier today ;-)
<mathiaz> slangasek: I'll ask the user what he did in the second situation
<soren> cjwatson: I'd like to see it, actually.
<slangasek> mathiaz: I think the 'exit' itself is probably not the cause of the failure; the user is clearly using the gnome frontend in the first run, and I think he first chose the 'examine with a shell' option, and then subsequently killed the window
<soren> I'm running out for bit, though.
<cjwatson> soren: http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/notifications/ has most of the bits
<cjwatson> the special key in fnotify is a bit gross, and there's no locking on that file
<cjwatson> and the irssi bit is dependent on http://www.leemhuis.info/files/fnotify/fnotify
 * cjwatson updates irssi-notify there for the LPBUG stuff
<astronut> i can't find a straight answer in any of the published documentation, in the installer's partitioner, does manual -> edit partion -> newsize do a destructive or nondestructive resize, esp ntfs?
<astronut> or is it based on the d-i code?
<sladen> astronaut: what do you mean destructive/nondestructive?
<astronut> sladen: edit partition table and ignore filesystem or actually adjust filesystem
<astronut> iui, will changing the filesize of an ntfs partition call ntfsresize to shrink it
<sladen> astronut: are the files on the NTFS partition deleted (no).  Are the files moved around (yes, they are moved towards the "front").  Will they still be there when you reboot (yes)
<astronut> sladen: nondestructive then
<sladen> astronut: Yes, ntfsresize has been used in the Ubuntu installer for ~3 years automatically
<astronut> sladen: another possible design: editing the partition size adjusts the partition table but doesn't touch the filesystem. on reboot, the filesystem is corrupt and ya
<astronut> sladen: glad to hear
<astronut> i wasn't sure if it was in the manual or just the guided
<astronut> docs weren't clear and the prompts weren't very reassuring
<astronut> got no guided prompt because there weser several partitions on that drive (dell laptop)
<hwilde> on that note, it's nto really clear when resizing the partition, it says "New partition size:"  then it has a slider bar.  is that the new size of the existing partition, or the size of the new partition to be created?
<sladen> astronut: agreed.  I get scared myself.  File a bug that it should be more informative (especially if you can work out how to phrase it more concisely/clearly)
<astronut> hwilde: that's not as obscure
<astronut> since it's edit not create
<astronut> also it starts at the current value
<astronut> sladen: i'm doing it for a friend, i don't use ubuntu normally
<hwilde> astronut, i'm sure it's easy for you to understand but not for everyone.
<astronut> *nod*
<astronut> hwilde: i didn't get a slider though, got a num box
<hwilde> most people think they are making a new partition to install ubuntu, and then it says "New partition size"
<astronut> what's the name of that control called? spinner?
<astronut> this was from the live cd installer, not the bootable one
<hwilde> so they think, oh I only need 8G for my new partition, but in reality they are resizing their existing partition
<laga> hi!
<sladen> astronut: if you've had to come here to check, for every one of you, there will be a thousand who haven't asked.  And it would be good to fix it for them aswell.
<astronut> sladen: sure... i just hate LP
<astronut> though i might have an account, not sure
<laga> is there any way to make my see this bug: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mythtv/+bug/221176 i'm one of the mythtv maintainers in ubuntu and i'd like to triage it.
<ubottu> laga: Error: This bug is private
<hwilde> but it wouldn't be that difficult to label both sides of the slider bar:  Re-sizing of the existing partition,    New partition size
<astronut> i didn't have a slider bar
<astronut> i had a number box, insert size in m
<astronut> b
<hwilde> desktop livecd installer?
<james_w> laga: ask in #ubuntu-bugs for a member of bugcontrol to process it
<laga> james_w: thanks.
<astronut> hwilde: ya
<astronut> 8.04
<astronut> i'm using sysresccd to do the resize
<astronut> now
<astronut> since i couldn't get an answer
<sladen> astronut: well, I'm not the words greatest fan of Launchpad either.  However, it's what we've got (though it has improved over time).  If you have have suggestions about how to help the LP team make Launchpad suck Less, file at https://bugs.launchpad.net/malone/+filebug
<hwilde> it's definitely a slider bar in the livecd installer with gparted, and it definitely says "New partition size", and it's definitely confusing enough that people have asked me about a dozen times what that means
<astronut> sladen: heh...
<astronut> sladen: normally ijust use debian and ignore ubuntu except when i get MoM mails
<sladen> astronut: fixing d-i will fix the resize translation issue for Debian *and* Ubuntu.  So it still be appreciated if you could file it.
<astronut> sure, later
<astronut> i'll have to double check the message is th esame
<sladen> astronut: very likely.  It's a sed script that replaces every instance of 'Debian' with 'Ubuntu'
<astronut> now this livecd isn't booting
<astronut> *annoyed*
<astronut> ok, i'll just do the manual edit
<sladen> astronut: unless you're setting up RAID/LVM you really probably don't need to use the advanced made
<astronut> sladen: i said manual, not advanced
<sladen> astronut: grab the DesktopCD and double-click the icon on the desktop and you'll get a shiny GUI partition editor (which should automatically guess "what you want to do"(tm) anyway)
<astronut> sladen: this thing has a coupel partitions, i get either guided (whole disk) or manual
<astronut> couple*
<astronut> sladen: been there, done that, didn't happen
<astronut> i may not have done many ubuntu installs, but i've done tons of debian installs...
<ogra> we must be nearing an UDS ... sladen is back :)
<sladen> astronut: so you're using a DesktopCD with "manual partitioning".  Or are you using the "Alternate CD"?
<astronut> the former
<astronut> it's booting right now
<astronut> into the installer
<astronut> instead of live environment
<astronut> though apparently they're not that different
<astronut> i dont' get a slider in manual mode, sadly
<astronut> you guys should work on that
<astronut> what is it, just a gtk port of whiptail?
<astronut> lets hope i don't kill my friend's data
<hwilde> !enter | astronut
<ubottu> astronut: Please try to keep your questions/responses on one line - don't use the "Enter" key as punctuation!
<hwilde> I love ubottu  :)
<astronut> sorry hwilde
<astronut> sladen: did i meet you at DC8?
<astronut> uh...hello... it just returned from resize and they don't look any different
<astronut> wait, never mind, the dialog just got hidden... it's still at 0% after like 10 minutes
<sladen> astronut: d-i is the alternate installer; Ubiquity (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Ubiquity) is the Live installer (which hooks back to d-i), for which there are GTK and Qt frontends.
<sladen> astronut: maybe.  I was certainly at Debconf
<astronut> how lon gshould this take? 40->30 gb resize
<sladen> astronut: if the dialogue isn't modal on-top, that's a bug
<astronut> i think i clicked on the install dialoge to bring it forward
<astronut> by mistake
<sladen> astronut: probably quite awhile... depends how full it is;  there's probably 5-15GB to be moved around
<astronut> ok, fair enough
<astronut> it'd be ncie if the progress bar worked
<sladen> again.  If it doesn't.  *PLEASE* file a bug
<sladen> you've found 3 issues so far
<astronut> there we go
<sladen> (1) the wording on the resizer can be improved.  (2) that the progress bar should be modal  (3) progress bar taking ages to go from 0% to 1%
<sladen> astronut: what's your LP id.  I'll even go to the trouble of opening the bugs
<astronut> ...why does it say unusable space?
<astronut> astronut i guess
<astronut> if i have one
<astronut> it was when they imported debian people's
<astronut> is 11589 mb not sufficient to install?
<astronut> that's about 10 gigs
<sladen> more than enough.  But how much free-space is there in the NTFS?
<astronut> i'm saying it ays there's unusable space on disk
<astronut> oh, shit i'm guessing there are 4 primary partitions
<sladen> (4) issues.
<astronut> ok, now that thare's free space but partions, will the guided to a primary -> logical conversion?
<sladen> astronut: I have a feeling not.  Find cjwatson
<astronut> him i remember meeting at dc
<astronut> that'll be the same as di, right?
<astronut> i'm waiting on windows chkdsk to make sure nothing broke
<astronut> why can't we get rid of the whole only four partion things?
<astronut> or is that a matter of the size of the partition table
<sladen> astronut: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GUID_Partition_Table
<astronut> there's not a way to do primary->logical in DI
<astronut> bah
<astronut> err, ubiquity... does DI do it?
<sladen> oh, it'll get poked to the right place eventually
<highvoltage> hey sladen!
<sladen> highvoltage: what happened to that fridge list stuff?  I got a message with a launchpad.internal URL in it and ignored it more
<highvoltage> sladen: fridge list stuff? I don't think I got anything about it.
<sladen> astronut: right.  I've failed all of those issues except the "launchpad suckz" one.  Are there any others?
<sladen> highvoltage: oh well.  Never mind.  There are more important things in life
<astronut> i saw
<highvoltage> sladen: I'll PM you :)
<astronut> sladen: ubuiquity should have an option to turn primary partitions into logical ones
<mathiaz> james_w: re bug 221963 - why did you set the state back to New ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 221963 in samba "package samba-common 3.0.28a-1ubuntu4 failed to install/upgrade: " [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/221963
<james_w> mathiaz: because the files that were asked for were provided, is there more information needed?
<james_w> mathiaz: sorry for changing it while you were working on it
<mathiaz> james_w: no problem - I tend to not set it to New once I've had a look at it
<mathiaz> james_w: For me, NEW means that nobody looked at it
<mathiaz> james_w: then I move it to Incomplete until the bug has been Confirmed, Invalid, Won't Fix or Triagged
<james_w> mathiaz: ah, ok.
<mathiaz> james_w: There isn't a standard workflow
<lesshaste> Hi, Can I ask about how to assign a bug to kernel? r toolchain | Ubuntu 8.04 LTS released! | Development of Ubuntu (not support, not application dev has a note saying that but I don't know how to actually do it
<lesshaste> grr
<lesshaste> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/224561 has a note saying that but I don't know how to actually do it
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 224561 in linux "DVD drive errors in hardy" [Undecided,New]
 * lesshaste is moving to #ubuntu-bugs
<astronut> sladen: apparently gparted doesn't do taht
<astronut> it's funny, you'd think it'd be relatively trivial, it's all done in the MBR, no? or would you have to shift everything down a few k
<sladen> astronut: that's what I can't think.  Can't remember if it needs an extra 4kB ading
<sladen> or just twiddling MBR bits (it's going to break disk labelling in Windows)
<astronut> sounds like it requires a small shift...bah
<astronut> still, it doesn't sound overly complicated...should be added to gnu parted
<astronut> compultationally complex, but not procedureally
<astronut> although i guess if there's no free space, you can't do it
<astronut> in my case it should be easy since there's free space ahead of it but no tool to do it
<cjwatson> sladen: there are bug reports about everything mentioned above already, and also a few specifications
<cjwatson> astronut: it feels rather like saying "yes, this partitioner will not destroy your data and instead will behave sensibly", to be perfectly honest; i.e. stating what should be the obvious state of affairs
<cjwatson> hwilde: that slider is fixed in 8.04
<mysterycool> Hello.
<cjwatson> astronut: you can't do a primary->logical conversion; you'd break whatever operating system lives there
<cjwatson> astronut: very bad idea to present that
<cjwatson> astronut: and no, ubiquity is not a gtk port of whiptail :-P
<cjwatson> astronut: but it is based on the d-i code
<mysterycool> I have been checking around ubuntu's web now and i found somewhere that it says "if u want to learn u can find a mentor in the development team". where is the development team and how can I get in touch with a mentor?
<hwilde> cjwatson, cool i've only done the server install yet
<cjwatson> hwilde: the live CD installer does not use gparted (since 7.04); please don't refer to gparted unless you are actually certain that that's what it is, because it tends to cause confusion
<cjwatson> hwilde: (and in any case the "New partition size:" bit wasn't gparted even in 6.06/6.10)
 * ogra giggels about "gtk port of whiptail"
<Nafallo> hehe
<hwilde> take it easy - i'm not the one who made the wording ambiguous :/  people struggle with that and its very important to not mess up the partitions
 * toresbe doesn't know how to reliably reproduce or file this weird bug.
<toresbe> Using swf player in Firefox makes my monitor randomly jump out of sync.
<cjwatson> hwilde: I know, I'm just asking not to use technical terms (gparted) unless you're sure. :-) "partitioner" would be fine.
<ffm> How do I install all the builddepends of a package via APT?
<hwilde> cjwatson, ok I will only speak in screenshots from now on - but you obviously knew exactly what I meant because you said it's fixed
<cjwatson> astronut: the spinner in the manual partitioner is different from what hwilde was talking about; I think the problem is less severe there since there isn't an implicit other partition in that context, but there are bugs about that (e.g. bug 117986)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 117986 in partman-partitioning "partition resizing UI breaks me every time" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/117986
<cjwatson> hwilde: I don't mean to go that far, plain English is fine
<cjwatson> I've been confused in the past by people talking about gparted in bug reports, so I just wanted to make a general point, that's all, don't take it personally
<hwilde> well you can either educate the entire universe, OR put a label in the window title that says it's not gparted, then people will use the correct terminology
 * ogra points ffm to #ubuntu-motu for such questions .... apt-get build-dep <package> 
<cjwatson> hwilde: uh, it's not called ls or openoffice.org either. :-)
<hwilde> cjwatson, how would anyone know what to correctly call it without you telling them
<hwilde> put a label in the window title
<cjwatson> they can use a plain English word rather than guessing jargon
<cjwatson> "installer"
<cjwatson> the window title says "Install"
<ffm> ogra: merci.
 * hwilde stares at cjwatson
<hwilde> if you want people to refer to it by the correct name, put that name on their screen and they will
<cjwatson> I don't want people to refer to it by ANY NAME AT ALL
<cjwatson> it's the installer. That word "Install" is on their screen.
<hwilde> you act like I said bomb on an airplane
<cjwatson> no, you're arguing ever more vociferously with me and I'm responding
<cjwatson> only people who happen to remember that at one point the installer happened to use gparted for its advanced partitioning mode will be confused and say gparted
<cjwatson> that small number of people can easily be reminded when they make a mistake, and it's not a problem
<hwilde> gparted gparted gparted yeah I said it...  i'm sorry
<cjwatson> putting jargon on the screen for the purpose of educating a small number of old-timers is not worth it
<cjwatson> "Install" is all it needs
<cjwatson> how am I supposed to correct people who make mistakes if you get really annoyed about it? seems bizarre, it was just a simple factual correction
<hwilde> what does it use if not gparted
<cjwatson> it's a layer over d-i's partman
<sladen> mysterycool: #ubuntu-motu is a good place to start
<cjwatson> the GUI part is written from scratch
<hwilde> and how would anyone know this just by looking at it
<cjwatson> they don't need to
<cjwatson> nobody who is coming at it with no experience at all can possibly come up with the name gparted :-)
<hwilde> ok I agree
<cjwatson> the reason that we went for a from-scratch GUI is that the partitioning "business logic" is a lot harder to get right than the GUI
<hwilde> I am sorry that I typed in "gparted" instead of "that nameless partition editor in the livecd installer setup screen when you are resizing an existing partitioner"
<astronut> cjwatson: acks
<cjwatson> and since we have to maintain two installers with different UIs, it makes sense to duplicate the UI not the underlying logic
<hwilde> anyways it was a point about the wording of the instructions, not the underlying partitioner
<hwilde> and you knew what I meant so there wasn't really any confusion
<cjwatson> in this case, yes
<hwilde> all i'm saying is that people frequently ask,   is this the new size of hte existing partition, or the size of the new partition being created
<cjwatson> but I *have* spent extra time trying to untangle confusing bug reports where people used the gparted jargon incorrectly, and this wasted my time
<astronut> cjwatson: will the breaking count if it's a data partition?
<astronut> besides breaking an fstab
<cjwatson> so I have a general policy of correcting people when they use it wrongly, so that eventually the meme can go away
<astronut> but if i move an ntfs to a whatever, ti'll still just show up as the next availble letter
<cjwatson> hwilde: right, this is why we spent some effort fixing it in 8.04
<cjwatson> with a better resize widget
<cjwatson> astronut: sorry, "breaking"?
<hwilde> cjwatson, to avoid future confusion I strongly recommend putting a label on that screen, even if it's "Installer step 5 - Repartitioning"  then people can refer to it by the correct name
<cjwatson> hwilde: sorry, I disagree and will not
<cjwatson> with all due respect
<astronut> 15:21 < cjwatson> astronut: you can't do a primary->logical conversion; you'd  break whatever operating system lives there
<cjwatson> astronut: oh, right. Yes, it will break any /etc/fstab (etc.) that refers to it
<astronut> that's relatively minimal... it'd be nice to have the option
<cjwatson> etc. being potentially scripts that refer to /media/sda4/ or whatever
<astronut> *shrug*
<astronut> right
<cjwatson> I do agree that it's all too possible to dig yourself into a hole with four primary partitions
<astronut> in this case it was del
<cjwatson> it just seems like a massive bazooka to give people so that they can point it at their foot, so I'm not sure
<astronut> dell*
<cjwatson> hmm, I thought Dell shipped with three primary partitions; that's certainly how mine came
<astronut> cjwatson: hidin orsomething, i don'tknow
<hwilde> the hidden restore partition :/
<cjwatson> and indeed that's why we weakened the constraints on the auto-resize option in 8.04 to allow operation with three primary partitions
<astronut> cjwatson: i'm not sure... thisone has a a tiny fat16, two large ntfs (C: and D:, d has label backup and had some empty folders and some data) and then a hidden fat32 w/ restore data
<cjwatson> hmm, I might have to ask some Dell contacts about that
<astronut> one folder was "Ghost backups"
<astronut> but was empty
<cjwatson> it's really awkward to do that without making at least one of them a logical partition
<astronut> sounds like it was some backup solution
<astronut> no kidding
<cjwatson> I believe there'll be a couple of Dell people at UDS, so I'll corner them then
<astronut> sounds likeit was designed for ghost to backup the C: into d:/ghost
<astronut> UDS? ubuntu desktop summit?
<cjwatson> Ubuntu Developer Summit
<astronut> was close
<astronut> i guess UbConf just doesn't have a nice ring
<cjwatson> we went through a number of names :)
<cjwatson> I don't think libparted provides a way to do that kind of conversion; you'd have to delete the partition (but leave data there) and create a new one with the same extents
<cjwatson> sounds hairy at best
<cjwatson> oh, hmm, actually it's not always possible
<cjwatson> unless there's room before the partition, the extended partition table would have to go in the first couple of sectors
<astronut> right, if disk is ful, you can' add the data
<slangasek> you also have to either resize the partition before it on the disk, or move the partition, to accomodate the extra header for the logical partitions
<cjwatson> so you'd literally have to shift everything forward 4KB or whatever, which means that if power fails in the middle of the operation, you lose all the data
<cjwatson> right, slangasek put it more clearly
 * slangasek nods
<slangasek> er, not nodding that I put it more clearly, nodding that we're in agreement about the problem ;)
<bd_> If a package in universe has been rebuilt without source changes (what in debian would be called a binNMU, not sure what the official term is in ubuntu), and a new version goes into debian, is a manual universe sync needed?
<cjwatson> resizing is (I believe) safe in the sense that if power fails you're still OK; or at the very least the windows are much smaller
<bd_> http://patches.ubuntu.com/g/gimp-resynthesizer/gimp-resynthesizer_0.15-2build2.patch <-- the diff of the package in question
<cjwatson> bd_: no, autosync is only inhibited if the version number contains "ubuntu"
<bd_> ah, okay
<bd_> I'll just wait for the unfreeze then :)
<cjwatson> bd_: the purpose of "build" is precisely to allow autosyncs :-)
<astronut> why id someone do a sourceful upload of cyrus to do a rebuild by the way?
<bd_> cjwatson: excellent :)
<Chipzz> bd_: I don't think that's what debian calls a binNMU
<astronut> do you guys not do binary rebuilds
<cjwatson> astronut: we don't have binNMUs in Ubuntu, no
<cjwatson> largely as an intentional policy
<astronut> ah
<bd_> Chipzz: well, a debian binNMU is usually accomplished by kicking it back to the buildds
<Chipzz> hrrrrm wait
<cjwatson> though it might be implemented one day
<Chipzz> I'm thinking of a binary only upload
<bd_> although in theory a DD could manually do a binary only upload of a package that's not their own
<cjwatson> binNMUs are a special kind of binary-only upload
<cjwatson> bd_: done it plenty of times. :-)
<cjwatson> it's called a porting upload
<Chipzz> bd_: a rebuild is not a NMU though
<Chipzz> nor a binNMU I thin
<Chipzz> k
<Chipzz> NMU = Non Maintainer Upload
<cjwatson> Chipzz: rebuilds are called binary-only NMUs in Debian
<Chipzz> cjwatson: they are? I thought they were just referred to as rebuilds/retries
<cjwatson> Chipzz: even if the maintainer requests it, these days it's actually done by buildd triggers, so it's still usually signed by somebody other than the maintainer
<Chipzz> ie 'give back' a build
<cjwatson> give-back is when it failed the first time
<slangasek> historically, all porter builds are "binNMUs"
<cjwatson> binNMUs are when you bump the version (which in Debian is possible without bumping the source version)
<bd_> Chipzz: 'give back' means something different in debian - it's how you unwedge a stuck build, I believe :)
<cjwatson> bd_: it means the same in Ubuntu, Chipzz is just a bit mixed up :)
<bd_> ah, okay :)
<cjwatson> we should probably have a glossary somewhere
<Chipzz> yeah
<Chipzz> 21:45 < Chipzz> I'm thinking of a binary only upload
<slangasek> more recently, that became confusing and in Debian the term is almost exclusively used now to refer to building a package on a buildd with a changelog-only diff to get the binaries rebuilt against the current archive
<cjwatson> right, originally Maintainer != signer => NMU; we've got a bit more sophisticated with terminology since
<Chipzz> well, I think the term binNMU is confusing
<bd_> Chipzz: it is, but it's one character shorter than rebuild, so :)
<Chipzz> because an NMU usually involves changes the maintainer does not know about/has not given permission for
<bd_> (not one /keystroke/ shorter though alas)
<cjwatson> that's not true at all
<cjwatson> it's quite common for a maintainer to authorise an NMU when they're unable to upload for some reason
<Chipzz> hrrrm I should rephrase then
<Chipzz> "changes not made by the maintainer"
<bd_> and binNMUs also happen without the maintainer asking in many cases (library transitions etc)
<slangasek> Chipzz: oh, I've more than once had a Debian maintainer be completely oblivious to binNMUs I've done :)
<cjwatson> Chipzz: that's not true either, given Uploaders
<cjwatson> an NMU is just that the person who made the upload is not one of the set of people who would ordinarily upload the package (originally just Maintainer, now Maintainer + Uploaders)
<Chipzz> ugh, I should shut up then I think :)
<bd_> cjwatson: however, the buildds are, in a way, part of the set of people(?) who would ordinarily upload the package... ;)
<cjwatson> bd_: (of course using binNMUs for library transitions is a relatively recent innovation)
<bd_> cjwatson: hm, really? Color me newbie then :)
<cjwatson> back in the day, we didn't have enough central buildd control to schedule them across all architectures, so there was no point
<Chipzz> cjwatson: it's just that I'm more accustomed to the old meanings I guess
<Chipzz> well, meaning...
<cjwatson> nowadays that's basically all sorted out so that the release team can do them across the board
<cjwatson> Chipzz: I'm accustomed to an older meaning ;-)
 * bd_ nods
<bd_> now if only debian would take the plunge and move to sourceful uploads too... :)
<slangasek> which required wanna-build to first grow binNMU support, yes
<Chipzz> in my mind NMU's often were associated with "hostile" intentions
<Chipzz> but that may be my flawed perception
<cjwatson> that's really something that came later; originally NMUs were much more often friendly
<cjwatson> which is one of the things we were trying to get back to in setting up Ubuntu the way we did
 * cjwatson -> dinner
<Chipzz> cjwatson: enjoy :)
<bd_> is it me or did launchpad pick a moderately bad time for scheduled maintenance, what with toolchain uploads and etc going on? :)
<slangasek> nah, that's /way/ better than having it scheduled the week of a release
<LaserJock> there's never really a good time, IMO :-)
<ogra> well, we're not really in a hurry, are we ?
<stgraber> LaserJock: christmas break ? :)
<jdong> ogra: speak for all y'all non-backports users ;-)
<bd_> Well, there is the may 1 target for the toolchain upload.
<ogra> jdong, heh
<cjwatson> bd_: the toolchain's almost entirely done, so it's OK
<cjwatson> dpkg is really the only thing left
<bd_> nice :)
<bd_> oO koffice2 is building on intrepid already?
<bd_> [ https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/koffice2/1:1.9.96.0~that.is.really.1.9.95.3-1ubuntu3/+build/572459 ]
<cjwatson> bd_: might just be sparc trying to catch up
<cjwatson> if it didn't make it on hardy (or even if it failed), it'll retry
<bd_> ah
<slangasek> yes, I knew when the buildds started tackling intrepid by the flood of build failure mails :)
 * cjwatson wonders whether to keep dpkg-triggers upgrade handling from mid-gutsy
<cjwatson> technically removable and would simplify the diff, but I do hate removing upgrade handling
<bd_> cjwatson: Would pre-depending on an appropriate version of dpkg be enough?
<cjwatson> what, in dpkg? :-)
<cjwatson> (I'm merging dpkg)
<bd_> oh wait, on dpkg's side :)
<bd_> I thought you were referring to some kind of release goal for trigger-using packages :)
<elmo> is there a standardized 'is this service running' check for Ubuntu initscripts?
<slangasek> no
<elmo> k
<slangasek> there was discussion among the server team about standardizing on a 'status' command, but it was late in the cycle and deferred in light of overlapping plans for upstart status reporting
<elmo> ok - well if it ever exists, it'd be nice if the glibc preinst used it
<sladen> elmo: theoretically if you use Keybuk's fancy stuff you should be able to get that and more
<elmo> as in, 'no please do not restart the IMAP server I just carefully stopped in prepartion for the dist-upgrade'
<kees> jcastro: do you have upstream Blender contacts?
<jcastro> kees: sure do
<kees> jcastro: can you point them at bug 6671 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 6671 in blender "insecure file access (breezy, dapper, edgy, gutsy, hardy)" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/6671
<elmo> and pam
<jcastro> kees: will do
<kees> jcastro: thx
<slangasek> elmo: well, pam at least lets you override the list :)
<Keybuk> that's just a bug in Debian initscripts
<Keybuk> restart should do just that
<Keybuk> it should only stop and start it if it was running to begin with
<Keybuk> never start it when it wasn't
<Keybuk> :)
<slangasek> ?
<slangasek> the libpam postinst code doesn't rely on a functional "restart" command anyway; I don't remember why
<slangasek> possibly because some init scripts get clever and don't actually re-exec the binary on restart; and possibly because that's not how "restart" is defined in debian policy?
<slangasek> (policy does specify that the outcome of a successful 'restart' command is always to leave the service running at the end)
<Keybuk> I think my point was that policy sucks :)
<kees> I think "graceful" should be the 'restart-if-already-running'.
<kees> although, that's probably a bad name too
<Nafallo> kees: makes me think of apache :-)
<infinity> "/etc/init.d/apache2 random" sound like fun to me.  Then we can just close every bug report with "well, what did you EXPECT it to do?"
<kees> Nafallo: yeah, I was trying to think of a "restart"-like command that fails when it's not already running, and IIRC that's true for apache's "graceful"
<Nafallo> kees: oh. never actually tried it with apache off to be honest :-)
<soren> cjwatson: I just took at peek at bug 221635..
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 221635 in man-db "man does not work" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/221635
<ted1> Sexist bug.
<soren> cjwatson: I've not looked too closely, but I noticed that around line 720, you define another struct sigaction that you don't memset(0, blah, blah) first.
<soren> ted1: :)
<soren> ted1: I've been looking for you, by the way..
<ted1> Uh, oh.
<cjwatson> soren: true, but I set all the elements documented by sigaction(2), with the exceptions that (a) it says not to set both sa_handler and sa_sigaction (b) it says not to use sa_restorer
<cjwatson> maybe you're supposed to zero sa_restorer anyway
<soren> cjwatson: I'm not sure.
<soren> cjwatson: It just jumped out at me and thought it might help.
<cjwatson> looking at arch/x86/kernel/signal_32.c, I think it *might* get used even if you don't put SA_RESTORER in sa_flags
<cjwatson> hard to be sure, but you could be right
<cjwatson> another instance of that in pipeline_pump too
<cjwatson> though code in gnulib doesn't bother to do the memset
<cjwatson> I'll shove memsets in for the sake of paranoia, but unfortunately I'm not convinced :-/
<cjwatson> dearly wish I could get an strace of the damn thing
<soren> :)
<Kopfgeldjaeger> n8
<soren> cjwatson: Well, a hint as to which signal it's receiving would also be nice.
<cjwatson> I suspect it's just as easy to get an strace as to get them to install a new version
<cjwatson> and unfortunately stdio in signal handlers is not kosher
<cjwatson> which makes safe debugging output tricky
<soren> I'm not sure I realise what the problem is? At least not in a sigchld handler.
<cjwatson> signals may be taken while stdio is in an inconsistent state. If you use stdio in a signal handler you may crash randomly depending on exactly when the signal was taken.
<cjwatson> having just taken out code that used stdio (assert) for that reason, I'm not going to put it back in. :)
<soren> Ah... Yes, good point.
<cjwatson> http://www.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/009695399/functions/xsh_chap02_04.html#tag_02_04_03 lists the POSIX-defined functions safe for calling within a signal handler
<crimsun> TheMuso: hmm, I still have system sounds (WRT 192888)
<TheMuso> crimsun: Well I've only tested on my notebook, and when using dmix with pulse, the startup sounds doesn't play for example. Playing it from gnome-sound-properties gives a sample caching error.
<crimsun> interesting, because that's the test I /just/ attempted :-)
<TheMuso> I'll test on other machines I have here.
<TheMuso> This was with the latest pulse stuff from bzr.
<TheMuso> Let me test on my amd64 box with an hda-intel sound chip.
#ubuntu-devel 2008-05-01
* Topic unset by herb on #ubuntu-devel
* herb changed the topic of #ubuntu-devel to: Intrepid created, frozen for toolchain | Ubuntu 8.04 LTS released! | Development of Ubuntu (not support, not application development on Ubuntu) | #ubuntu for support and general discussion for dapper/feisty/gutsy/hardy, #ubuntu+1 for intrepid | #ubuntu-motu for getting involved in development | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment | See #ubuntu-bugs for http://wiki.ubuntu.com/HelpingWithBugs
* herb changed the topic of #ubuntu-devel to: Launchpad is going down from 00:00 UTC until 02:00 UTC for a code update. Intrepid created, frozen for toolchain | Ubuntu 8.04 LTS released! | Development of Ubuntu (not support, not application development on Ubuntu) | #ubuntu for support and general discussion for dapper/feisty/gutsy/hardy, #ubuntu+1 for intrepid | #ubuntu-motu for getting involved in development | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment | See #ubuntu-bugs for
* cjwatson changed the topic of #ubuntu-devel to: Launchpad down 00:00-02:00 UTC for a code update | Intrepid created, frozen for toolchain | Ubuntu 8.04 LTS released! | Development of Ubuntu (not support, not application development on Ubuntu) | #ubuntu for support and general discussion for dapper/feisty/gutsy/hardy, #ubuntu+1 for intrepid | #ubuntu-motu for getting involved in development | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment | See #ubuntu-bugs for http://wiki.ubuntu.com
* cjwatson changed the topic of #ubuntu-devel to: Launchpad down 00:00-02:00 UTC for a code update | Intrepid frozen for toolchain | Ubuntu 8.04 LTS released! | Development of Ubuntu (not support, not application development on Ubuntu) | #ubuntu for support and general discussion for dapper/feisty/gutsy/hardy, #ubuntu+1 for intrepid | #ubuntu-motu for getting involved in development | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment | See #ubuntu-bugs for http://wiki.ubuntu.com/HelpingW
<cjwatson> seven more characters ...
* cjwatson changed the topic of #ubuntu-devel to: Launchpad down 00:00-02:00 UTC for a code update | Intrepid coming soon | Ubuntu 8.04 LTS released! | Development of Ubuntu (not support, not application development on Ubuntu) | #ubuntu for support and general discussion for dapper/feisty/gutsy/hardy, #ubuntu+1 for intrepid | #ubuntu-motu for getting involved in development | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment | See #ubuntu-bugs for http://wiki.ubuntu.com/HelpingWithBugs
<azeem> cjwatson: Canonical should buy the w.ubun.tu domain for the wiki, to safe /topic pace
<azeem> space*
<cjwatson> heh
<azeem> you could do s#dapper/feisty/gutsy## now, maybe
<TheMuso> crimsun: Ok, with the changes in the config file for pulse, using dmix, the startup sound starts playing, but then stops.
<TheMuso> crimsun: This is on my amd64 box.
<crimsun> TheMuso: hmm, so "cut off abruptly"?  Interesting.  Any ~/.xsession-errors or syslog debugging?
<TheMuso> crimsun: Actually, pulseaudio crashed.
<TheMuso> Hang on, I only used the config change. I'll ahve to rebuild it.
<crimsun> hopefully you don't [still, possibly] have pcm & ctl pulse set in an asoundrc :-)
<TheMuso> crimsun: Nothing is set asoundrc wise. This is a fresh install of hardy amd64, as of last night.
<crimsun> ok
<TheMuso> crimsun: Ok, same behavior. Pulse/alsa via dmix work fine, but no startup sound.
<TheMuso> Checking gnome-sound-properties now to see if I still get the caching error.
<TheMuso> Yep, I do.
<crimsun> does it show it in ~/.xsession-errors or elsewhere?
<TheMuso> Let me check.
<TheMuso> crimsun: Only that the sample is too long/sample caching errors from the startup sound.
<crimsun> that's odd.
<crimsun> I'll try with a fresh user.
<TheMuso> All my tests have been conducted on fresh installs.
<TheMuso> crimsun: http://www.pastebin.ca/1003438 from syslog
<crimsun> TheMuso: ok, for sanity-check, please pastebin your /etc/pulse/default.pa
<TheMuso> crimsun: http://www.pastebin.ca/1003445
<crimsun> ok, that looks good
<cjwatson> azeem: but I already got enough space so there's no need to optimise further
<crimsun> TheMuso: I can't reproduce it on any hardware locally, but I'll try to chase it down with a desktop cd
<crimsun> TheMuso: thanks for testing
<TheMuso> crimsun: I'll test on other boxes with other sound hardware as well.
<TheMuso> crimsun: np.
<azeem> cjwatson: oh come on, it's only 0:30AM and you're done with optimzations already!?!
<Keybuk> I wish there were a way to tell valgrind not to bother about child processes
<Keybuk> of course there's a zillion reachable bytes when I exec(), I'm hardly going to bother freeing them, am I?!
<slangasek> you should obviously be freeing them in a fini
<Keybuk> I personally consider exec() to be a great big free() from god
<Keybuk> I have similar feelings about exit()
<alex-weej> youtube does JS detection of a flash plugin and directs users to Adobe's web if not found
<alex-weej> and it's quite common expectation that "go to adobe.com" is the way to install flash if a user doesn't have it installed
<alex-weej> i was thinking we could subvert the whole thing by installing a sort of stub flash plugin
<Keybuk> alex-weej: I've been nagging adobe about that
<alex-weej> about providing instructions on using APT?
<alex-weej> or about providing their own debs?
<Keybuk> about improving that general experiance
<Keybuk> if you land at that page in Ubuntu, it should just work
<alex-weej> well i think the blame lies partly on web developers
<Keybuk> ironically including a flash animation on that page would make it work
<alex-weej> yeah
<alex-weej> so how about we create a stub flash plugin that will respond positively to the detection routines
<alex-weej> yet will trigger the proper installation
<Keybuk> is that possible?
<Keybuk> and would there be odd side effects?
<alex-weej> i don't know why it shouldn't be
<johanbr> Youtube seems to detect Gnash correctly, so I'm sure it's possible.
<alex-weej> and swfdec
<alex-weej> i think it just detects if there's a handler for the MIME object type
<alex-weej> it may be easier to circumvent that inside mozilla
<alex-weej> but doing it with a stub plugin may be less intrusive
<johanbr> And I suspect it might be more fruitful to nag Google than Adobe.
<alex-weej> why Google?
<johanbr> Well, their Youtube division.
<alex-weej> oh, of course
<alex-weej> but there is still a lot of other websites that do detection
<alex-weej> they think they're being clever
<alex-weej> and all make the fatal misassumption that "go to adobe.com" is a universal instruction
<alex-weej> so if it's possible, what's the consensus? good idea?
 * Nafallo votes yes
<alex-weej> or can anyone think of a better way of dealing with the JS detection?
<sladen> alex-weej: find some individual example pages, and just see what they're doing
<sladen> alex-weej: they're all going to copying each other, so after 5-6 combinations it should be possible to have covered the bases
<alex-weej> IsObject(CreateObject("ShockwaveFlash.ShockwaveFlash.6"))
<alex-weej> maybe that's user functions...
<alex-weej> oh wait it's VBScript, haha
<alex-weej> for IE/Win on one particular site (www.anjunabeats.com)
<sladen> simplest way is  <embed ...>Go to <a href="http://www.adobe.com/">Adobe.com</a></embed>   which is what the Beeb appear to be doing
<alex-weej> navigator.plugins["Shockwave Flash"]
<sladen> alex-weej: Or, provide the plugin.  And as soon as it gets called in anger, call out tothe install assistent
<alex-weej> sladen: doesn't that method trigger the plugin installation tho?
<alex-weej> sladen: what, my original suggestion? :)
<sladen> alex-weej: The example above will display  <a href...>  in the case that the embed is not run
<alex-weej> yes but the <embed> will trigger the install assistant anyway, right?
<sladen> alex-weej: I guess so :)
<alex-weej> even if it says "go to adobe.com" :(
<sladen> don't know.  try lots of things
<alex-weej> apturl and collaboration from adobe may be the best long term strategy tbh
<alex-weej> there is still some worth in not jumping the gun when the plugins array is looked ats
<alex-weej> *at
<cjwatson> ok, 3300-odd lines of dpkg diff left to deal with one way or another; bedtime
<cjwatson> actually, more like 2800 when you discount the stuff at the top that I know I'm keeping
<soren> cjwatson: You're doing the dpkg merge?
<cjwatson> yes
<cjwatson> I mentioned it earlier
<soren> Ah, I must have missed it as I ran out the door.
<cjwatson> you haven't started, have you?
<soren> Oh, dear god, no.
<cjwatson> ok, good, I didn't fancy merging two merges
<soren> I'm surprised there's that much of a diff, though?
<soren> Triggers landed in Debian now, right?
<soren> That used to account for most of the merge.
<soren> packages.d.o confirms my suspicion.
<cjwatson> they reindented it on the way in so it's taking a while to verify
<cjwatson> I don't want to just assume it's the same, that no bug-fixes got lost, or that there's no upgrade handling to do
<soren> YEah, I've run into that a few times, too. What I've done a few times was to run the two files through "diff -w" and let that weed out the formatting differences.
<cjwatson> I'm doing that kind of thing, sure
<soren> *shrug* I'm sure you'll work it out.
<cjwatson> it's not all just whitespace though
 * ScottK is glad to find out the whole triggers mess did not in fact cause a fork between Debian and Ubuntu in the package.
<soren> Well... It did for while.
<Keybuk> ugh, merges ;)
<Keybuk> was it something I said? :)
<ScottK> Heh
<ScottK> How is the merger of MoM and DaD coming along?
<Keybuk> I have some patches
<Keybuk> I'm still getting MoM back on her feet
<jdong> 20:27 < ScottK> How is the merger of MoM and DaD coming along?
<jdong> *grin*
<jdong> you walked right into that one ;-)
<ScottK> jdong: Did you find out if today's LP upgrade includes fixing the breakage in Main backports?
<jdong> ScottK: sorry, no time
<ScottK> I guess we'll know shortly.
<RzR> cjwatson: as saifouch
<RzR> ouch
<Amaranth> kees: why is bug 223865 a compiz bug? looks like gnome-screensaver just isn't locking fast enough
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 223865 in compiz "On awaking from hibernation screen is shown before password is entered" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/223865
<Amaranth> also, why is ubottu allowed to see security bugs?
<kees> Amaranth: it's not a private bug
<Amaranth> I thought security meant private
<kees> Amaranth: no, security is security, private is private.  :)
<kees> Amaranth: anyway, I haven't investigated it, but I can't reproduce it _without_ compiz
<Amaranth> Can you reproduce it _with_ compiz?
<kees> g-s should be locked prior to hibernation.  yeah, my hardy laptop flashes the screen for me too
<Amaranth> I can only successfully hibernate when I get rid of the nvidia driver so I can't test hibernation with compiz
<kees> Amaranth: ah, I'm on ati
<Amaranth> Does it happen when you use metacity compositing?
<jdong> oh is that the bug that locking the screen isn't actually a blocking command?
<Amaranth> no, that was fixed long ago
<Amaranth> first with a hack in compiz, then properly in the X server
<jdong> ah
<Keybuk> I do hope that my little bzr push didn't take down LP ;)
<Hobbsee> Keybuk: oh, so you're the one to blame!
 * ion_ sings "Blame Keybuk" to the melody of "Blame Canada"
<TheMuso> A curse on projects with no officially known vcs repo, no bug tracker, and no one place to find patches. It is not fun jumping from distro to distro just to get patches for a package.
<Keybuk> TheMuso: sadly that means you just cursed most of base ;)
<StevenK> Haha
<TheMuso> Keybuk: I only had one package in mind when I said that, but I'll take your word for it.
<Keybuk> TheMuso: which?
<TheMuso> dmraid
<Keybuk> eww ;)
<Keybuk> e.g. where's the fsck home page? :)
<TheMuso> Yeah well we have Microsoft to thank for that mess.
<TheMuso> In not allowing software RAID 1-5 to be used in consumer OSs.
<StevenK> I could have sworn e2fsprogs has a home page
<ajmitch> StevenK: you mean some antique page on gnu.org or similar?
<StevenK> Ah, I was thinking of fsck.ext[23], not fsck itself
<ffm> How do I report a bug against the ubuntu release notes?
<ffm> It's a major omission, that hda>sda from dapper to hardy.
<Hobbsee> slangasek: ^
<bd_> hmm, they enabled libata by default?
 * bd_ has been on custom kernels precisely to use libata for a while now
<TheMuso> bd_: Libata has been enabled since edgy.
<bd_> TheMuso: really? I could've sworn it was using legacy IDE for my cd-rom not long ago...
<TheMuso> bd_: I think it depends on the chipset.
<bd_> possibly
<bd_> I mean, my sata drive was on libata ofc
<ffm> so..
<bd_> ffm: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+filebug choose "I don't know" for the package
<ffm> bd_: I'm triaging, already filed.
<bd_> ah
<LaserJock> I would think a bug report would not be the best place to do that
<bd_> where else would it be reported?
<LaserJock> ubuntu-devel mailing list would be the most appropriate I would think
<ffm> LaserJock: You can report bugs in ubuntu-website
<LaserJock> ffm: I'm fully aware of that
<LaserJock> but the release notes are not written by the ubuntu-website people
<ffm> LaserJock: Unfortunately I'm not at a full session right now, and email is down.
<ffm> LaserJock: Who writes thems?
<ffm> then
<ffm> them
<LaserJock> the release manager
<ffm> LaserJock: Who is...
<LaserJock> slangasek
<LaserJock> which is why Hobbsee pinged him
<crimsun> (I think ubuntu-devel-discuss@ is more appropriate, actually.)
<LaserJock> crimsun: yeah
<ffm> Do I have to subscribe to post to the lists?
<TheMuso> I thought launchpad was down...
<ffm> I'm already swamped fronm wiki-en-l.
<TheMuso> Oh it should be back up by now
<crimsun> ffm: no, the post will just be moderated
<ffm> Ok, any of you people here mods that can get me through the posting queue quickly?
<ffm> (Thanks for all the help, btw)
<cody-somerville> Gah. My city is flooded :(
<cody-somerville> This is a picture of downtown: http://photos-b.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-sf2p/v238/99/87/556140141/n556140141_2901289_3517.jpg
<cody-somerville> I wonder how I'm going to get to work in the morning.
<StevenK> cody-somerville: Swim
<LaserJock> cody-somerville: :(
<LaserJock> we're having an earthquake swarm here
<ajmitch> LaserJock: it gives you something to talk about, at least :)
<LaserJock> ;-)
* herb changed the topic of #ubuntu-devel to: Intrepid coming soon | Ubuntu 8.04 LTS released! | Development of Ubuntu (not support, not application development on Ubuntu) | #ubuntu for support and general discussion for dapper/feisty/gutsy/hardy, #ubuntu+1 for intrepid | #ubuntu-motu for getting involved in development | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment | See #ubuntu-bugs for http://wiki.ubuntu.com/HelpingWithBugs
<cody-somerville> I dunno if you can see those facebook pictures but here is another startling one: http://photos-g.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-sf2p/v238/99/87/556140141/n556140141_2901238_9117.jpg
<LaserJock> holy cow
<cody-somerville> Here is a funny one: http://photos-f.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-sf2p/v238/99/87/556140141/n556140141_2901205_7289.jpg
<jdong> intrepid coming soon?
<jdong> :)
<TheMuso> jdong: Colin shortened it earlier to make sure all the needed bits would fit into the topic.,
<RyanPrior> Is Intrepid open for upload?
<StevenK> Not yet.
<RyanPrior> I'm seeing Intrepid packages in the Ubuntu package search...
<bd_> RyanPrior: yes, it's currently being prepared
<RyanPrior> Alright, cool.
<bd_> right now it's mostly the same as hardy, but several core toolchain packages are being updated
<bd_> once they're in, it'll be opened up for universe sync and normal uploads
<RyanPrior> Exciting. :-)
<squid_> why does apt-get upgrade wait for a friggin minute or two before understanding "this host is down, lets try another" ??
<squid_> this is very annyoing..
<cjwatson> standard TCP timeout I imagine
<cjwatson> you don't need to add colourful language either
<squid_> cjwatson: how anamic
<cjwatson> referring to what? (I assume you meant anaemic)
<squid_> s/anamic/anaemic/
<cjwatson> in some environments it does take quite a while to make a TCP connection, you know
<squid_> cjwatson: care to provide an example?
<cjwatson> so timeouts are always a trade-off between speed of detecting when a host is really down, and coping with slow links
<cjwatson> err, very heavily loaded networks of course :)
<squid_> don't be too colorful and add smileys when you speak, you might raise the channel temperature (laugh)
<cjwatson> if you object to the timeouts in TCP, you can address your complaints to its authors; it doesn't really make sense to fiddle it application-by-application
<knewt> don't know if there's somewhere else that would be better for this, but doesn't seem to be anyone on #ubuntu able to help. security.ubuntu.com, although pinging ok, isn't responding to http
<cjwatson> knewt: I *suspect* it's just very slow, but at any rate #canonical-sysadmin would be the best place to enquire about sysadmin issues
<squid_> cjwatson: a better way to deal with that is to do multipe runs. eg. you try all hosts for archive.ubuntu.com and wait only 2 seconds between each. then next round you increase that delay drastically, to allow for slower links to get a chance.. see? it's not a good idea in general to shove responsability over to someone else saying "this is a fact of TCP" etc. i'm sure it could be handled if one bothered.
<knewt> cjwatson: ta
<cjwatson> squid_: which would substantially *increase* general network load and seems rather anti-social
<cjwatson> it's sort of the equivalent of a child bouncing up and down in the back seat shouting "are we there yet?"
<squid_> cjwatson: perhaps so, but would allow for better usability for a lot of people on fast lines
<squid_> cjwatson: you are most colorful.
<cjwatson> you're welcome to select a different mirror which is less heavily loaded
<squid_> i don't know how, and i'm somewhat familiar to ubuntu
<squid_> expecting that from your users is not a good solution
<cjwatson> System -> Administration -> Software Sources
<squid_> also that info is not given while i'm waiting for a connection.
<cjwatson> it might allow for better usability if it just did it for you, but I think you'll find that if it did it for everyone it would make matters worse rather than better
<squid_> you seem to not listen and rather provide quick fixes - i may be talking to myself. anyways i have things to do
<cjwatson> what a nice chap
<snikker> when i insert a cd/dvd in a second dvd drive, the system don't mount it and in dmesg, i've got this: http://pastebin.com/m1cc3d71c
 * lamont wonders why his ctl and shift keys magically quit working under X
<Hobbsee> lamont: oh, you're still getting that?
<lamont> well, not sure when the previous reboot was...
<lamont> Sun Apr 27 19:20
<Hobbsee> hmmm
<Hobbsee> my version of that got fixed.
<lamont> mind you, it actually was working inside of the windoze client in vmware
<lamont> and ctl-alt-backspace provided no love, since it included ctl
<hwilde> my motherboard is making beeps like space invaders running on the livecd
<Hobbsee> lamont: hit hte logout icon.
<lamont> yeah - that's how I eventually escaped...
<hwilde> and it keeps logging out of the gui like ctrl+alt+backspace or something
<lamont> since ctl-alt-f1 suffered a very similary uh, issue
<lamont> hwilde: neat
<hwilde> yes it would be interesting if my current development did not depend on this functioning normally
<hwilde> I didn't even know the onboard buzzer could make such an array of beeps
<cjwatson> hwilde: that's happening on one of my systems, but under general load as well as just on the live CD; I blame a loose connection somewhere but haven't investigated
<hwilde> cjwatson, in the terminal it is registering keypress charcters  ^[[C^[[C^[[D
<hwilde> but I unplugged the kb and mouse and it continued
<cjwatson> soren: do you happen to remember what was actually wrong with dpkg when you fixed it like this?
<cjwatson>   * Fix wrong call to open in Dpkg/Control.pm that makes using a different
<cjwatson>     control file than debian/control fail horribly.
<cjwatson> soren: your change seems to have been:
<cjwatson> -    open(CDATA, "<", $file) || syserr(_g("cannot read %s"), $file);
<cjwatson> +    open(CDATA, "< $file") || syserr(_g("cannot read %s"), $file);
<cjwatson> soren: but three-arg open should work perfectly well, so I don't quite understand
<geser> cjwatson: that was as dpkg broke create-dbg-syms
<cjwatson> geser: I'm aware of that, but *why* did that break? As far as I know those two lines are equivalent
<geser> iirc create-dbg-syms used stdin as $file
<cjwatson> ah
<geser> and the three-arg-syntax didn't parse - as stdin but as a filename
<cjwatson> so the changelog is misleading
<hwilde> cjwatson, do you have a serial or usb tty connected to that machine?  try disabling brltty.  the beeps do not occur until that process loads on startup
<cjwatson> hwilde: no, I don't
<hwilde> cjwatson, "detected unknown HandyTech model with ID 28" says brltty
<cjwatson> it's not anywhere near that predictable, it seems to be heat-related
<cjwatson> sounds like we have wildly different problems
<hwilde> cjwatson, brltty is grabbing one of my serial->usb inputs on the tty and trying to read its input like it's abraille touchpad
 * lamont wonders where the 'smake' package went in hardy?
<azeem> are you missing it?
<broonie> lamont: Licensing issues with upstream?
<lamont> broonie: I'd have expected it to land in multiverse?
<azeem> lamont: Debian dropped it as well
<broonie> Would it not get automagically kicked when it vanished from Debian?
<Amaranth> cody-somerville: Head for higher ground :)
 * cody-somerville wades towards Amaranth riding a wild mountain goat.
<lamont> Hobbsee: and my USB thumb drive still doesn't automount, since consolekit has decided that I don't need any sessions
<cjwatson> broonie: ish
<cjwatson> semi-automagically anyway
 * ogra wonders why he has a ubuntu package search item in his FF searchbar but no LP bugs item :/
<johmathe> hi there
<johmathe> I've a problem, I'm trying to backport a package from debian lenny to ubuntu 6.06LTS
<johmathe> So I take all the .dsc .diff.gz and .orig.tar.gz
<johmathe> dpkg-source -x package.dsc
<johmathe> dpkg-buildpackage and dpkg -i package
<johmathe> everything works perfectly untill the package installatio
<cjwatson> what's the error?
<johmathe> when I install the pacakge I get this error : Template #1 in /var/lib/dpkg/info/mimedefang.templates does not contain a 'Template:' line
<cjwatson> that's probably slight changes in po-debconf
<johmathe> It apparently because the file has 4 blank lines before to begin
<cjwatson> let me just have a quick look and confirm
<johmathe> when I remove the lines, it works
<cjwatson> johmathe: right, to backport it, after dpkg-source -x, edit debian/templates and remove the comment block and the subsequent blank line from the start of the file
<cjwatson> then build
<johmathe> ok nice
 * johmathe tries
<cjwatson> debconf/po-debconf (I forget exactly where the change was, sorry) have got a bit more liberal since 6.06 and people have started taking advantage of that fairly widely
<johmathe> ok it appears to works
<johmathe> cjwatson: thanx a lot
<cjwatson> you're welcome
<cjwatson> Keybuk: can MoM be taught to look at experimental for certain nominated packages?
<Keybuk> it can
<cjwatson> Keybuk: can we do it for dpkg (once there's a dpkg in experimental, but there will be)?
<Keybuk> yes
<Keybuk> tell me when I need to add it
<cjwatson> ok, will do, thanks
<hwilde> !help
<ubottu> I am ubottu, the all-knowing infobot, standing in for ubotu while he's getting his haircut done, nose pwodered, updated and transitioned to his new gorgeus looks in the near future ;)
<hwilde> !ask
<ubottu> Please don't ask to ask a question, ask the question (all on ONE line, so others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely answer. :-)
<hwilde> there we go
<Spads> !HALP
<ubottu> I am ubottu, the all-knowing infobot, standing in for ubotu while he's getting his haircut done, nose pwodered, updated and transitioned to his new gorgeus looks in the near future ;)
<hwilde> lol
<hwilde> cjwatson, is vfat supported automatically in the install cd when detecting partitions?
<cjwatson> hwilde: should be, yes
<BenB> hi... I am trying to install ubuntu from a USB stick, but it's a tough ride...
<BenB> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/FromUSBStick fails entirely, at least with 8.04. the boot image is not even found by syslinux, it seems to try to put full paths into 8.3 filenames, resuling in a "install./vm" instead of "install/vmlinuz"
<BenB> got past that, but more problems later on. gave up.
<BenB> now I try to use https://help.ubuntu.com/8.04/installation-guide/i386/boot-usb-files.html
<BenB> but the ISO file copied to the USB stick (FAT), as instructed there, is not found.
<hwilde> ... because the installer does not have automatic vfat support
<BenB> when I got into a shell, and did mkdir /source; mount /dev/sda1 /source/, it says "Invalid argument". same with -t vfat. when I do modprobe vfat first, it works. I'm told that's a bug?
<cjwatson> hwilde: *blink* more details?
<hwilde> there BenB  finally got around to it :)
<cjwatson> oh, er, you two are working together
<BenB> even then, the installer does not find and use the iso file. I have no options in the installer menu to make it use that, only options about mirror servers.
<hwilde> install wouldn't work until he modprobed vfat
<cjwatson> ok, I'm on the phone, can you please stick around and I'll get back to you?
<BenB> cjwatson: sure
 * cjwatson notes that iso-scan does at least try modprobe vfat
<BenB> I'd be really nice to have ready-made USB stick images in addition to the ISO images, given that USB sticks are very common these days and appropriate for initial install.
 * BenB will try iso-scan on the shell whiel cjwatson is on the phone
<cjwatson> erm
<cjwatson> iso-scan isn't a program you can run easily unless you're familiar with d-i, so don't do that :)
<cjwatson> I'm just thinking out loud
<hwilde> and whatever you do, don't call it gparted :)
<BenB> yeah, noticed now :)
<BenB> hwilde: right. I'm not a friend of anything that parts my harddrisks.
<Lightkey> tkamppeter!
<Lightkey> ;p
<hwilde> you scared him off
<Lightkey> definitely
<cjwatson> BenB: ok, so firstly the quick answer: I definitely agree that we should have an easier way to get USB images. I don't think it can really be ready-made images, because that means we essentially double the number of 700MB blobs we're shipping around, which would be difficult from an admin point of view, but I want to ship an application for Linux and Windows that does the conversion in one step
<cjwatson> BenB: secondly, boot-usb-files is unfortunately not all that clear, so let me check what you're doing. I assume that you're following the "flexible way" approach (or you wouldn't be copying in an ISO file). It unfortunately doesn't link to the proper places to retrieve vmlinuz and initrd.gz; where did you fetch those from?
<hwilde> how about a java applet that you click on that takes over your windows machine and installs ubuntu? :)
<BenB> hwilde: haha
<BenB> cjwatson: I did:
<BenB> 1. zcat boot.img.gz > /dev/sdb1; mounted it and noticed that the filesystem is only 16 MB large. so, next try:
<BenB> 2. gunzip boot.img; mount -o loop boot.img /mnt/1/; mkfs.vfat /dev/sdb1; mount /dev/sdb1 /mnt/2/; cp -a /mnt/1/ /mnt/2/
<cjwatson> (1. would actually have worked, it'd just have retrieved *everything* over the network)
<BenB> cp ubuntu-...804....iso /mnt/2/;
<cjwatson> which boot.img?
<BenB> http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/hardy/main/installer-i386/current//images/netboot/boot.img.gz
<BenB> (linked on https://help.ubuntu.com/8.04/installation-guide/i386/boot-usb-files.html )
<cjwatson> ok, you have to use hd-media in order to add an .iso image
<cjwatson> I apologise that the documentation is not clear here
<cjwatson> you either use netboot and no .iso image (in which case it retrieves everything over the network) or hd-media and an .iso image (in which case it uses it)
<BenB> fine with me, as long as the next person won't run into the same problem :)
<BenB> ah, clear
<cjwatson> I'll update the documentation, though I'd appreciate it if you can try this out to confirm that there's nothing else I've missed
<BenB> of course
<cjwatson> though it would help me if you could file a bug on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/installation-guide/+filebug about it so that I have a handy justification for the stable update
<BenB> ok
 * BenB tried that, will take a while
<BenB> tries
<cjwatson> hmm, hd-media is a 256MB image
<cjwatson> that's not especially convenient
 * ogra thinks we should just have an option in gfxboot in the future: create USB installer from CD :)
<cjwatson> you have to make a filesystem of the right size with mkdosfs and copy the files in
<cjwatson> ogra: how were you planning to boot as far as gfxboot without a CD? :-)
<ogra> cjwatson, you need a machine with CD indeed, but then it will just dump the squashfs onto an usb key and make it bootable :)
<cjwatson> let's just leave it at "an application" for now. :-)
<ogra> well, i guess we'll discuss it in detail in prague :)
 * ogra is just brainstorming
<BenB> ogra: I'd prefer something where I don't have to run any executables on the preparing machine.
<BenB> (apart from stock ones like zcat)
<cjwatson> I think that will be rather difficult for us unfortunately, although it could easily be set up such that somebody else can build it for you
<BenB> ogra: requiring a CD-ROM is definitely a stop-gap.
<BenB> cjwatson: that wouldn't help (security). but I guess a script that can be run on any random linux would be fine, too (preferably as user, not root).
<ogra> BenB, i'm totally on your side here, i'd lobe to provide ready made dd'able images for usb keys :) but colin has a very valid point about size and space
<ogra> *love
<cjwatson> security> no different from downloading the image from us
<BenB> I understand that most mirrors care more about disk space than traffic :)
<cjwatson> assuming it were properly signed and such
<BenB> yeah, if signed, sure
<cjwatson> it's really just that we're almost on the edge of the amount of data we can cope with on releases.u.c right now
<BenB> (signed by ubuntu)
<cjwatson> and often in excess of that amount on cdimage.u.c
<BenB> udnerstood
<hwilde> when I boot up it gets to grub, then it says "mount: only root can do that"  over and over.  then it says  "mkdir cannot create directory /var/run/network: Read only filesystem"
<hwilde> then it boots up
<hwilde> the files appear to have the correct permissions and ownership... it's not a read-only filesystem... what am I missing
<hwilde> why does it tell me read-only filesystem :////
<cjwatson> BenB: so, I ran mkdosfs and syslinux on my USB stick, mounted it, copied /dists/hardy/main/installer-i386/current/images/hd-media/vmlinuz and /dists/hardy/main/installer-i386/current/images/hd-media/initrd.gz from the archive onto it, created syslinux.cfg with the two lines mentioned in https://help.ubuntu.com/8.04/installation-guide/i386/boot-usb-files.html, copied ubuntu-8.04-alternate-i386.iso in, booted it, and it ...
<cjwatson> ... works fine
<cjwatson> BenB: (actually, I lied slightly there, the "USB stick" was really a loop-mounted file that I booted in kvm)
<cjwatson> hwilde: perhaps the kernel encountered errors and remounted the root filesystem read-only as an emergency measure? check dmesg
<cjwatson> hwilde: (note that /etc/mtab might still show it as read-write)
<hwilde> ah I guess that's it....  why does grub use UUID which can't be ported from one system to another instead of just /dev/hda1 ?
<Mirv> is there someone who could "release" Gobuntu 8.04, since http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/gobuntu/releases/8.04/ is empty? I guess the last daily would be just fine. of course, there seems not to be currently active development but since it's being advertised, it's funny that the release is missing
<Mirv> there are some questions about the release on gobuntu-devel mailing list, but seemingly no-one awake who could do something about the releae
<Mirv> or if someone has any pointers on who should be contacted for the release to be done, since it gives a bad impression if it's completely missing
<cjwatson> hwilde: because /dev/hda1 changes depending on the whim of the kernel (including the specific driver used for your disk and on multi-disk systems the order of device discovery)
<cjwatson> Mirv: Gobuntu has had very little (I think practically no) contributed development effort, and to my knowledge nobody has tested its images
<cjwatson> it was expected to be mainly a community-driven effort, but hasn't really lived up to that
<cjwatson> (for a variety of reasons, I'm not trying to assign blame)
<hwilde> it's assigned medium priority on the hardy blueprint
<hwilde> everyone is busy on the high priority
<cjwatson> Mark's mail to gobuntu-devel a few weeks ago was an attempt to figure out its future
<BenB> cjwatson: ok. tried it, using the same method as I did before, just with hd-media/boot.img.gz on the same server
 * cjwatson -> dinner
<hwilde> is Ted Gould around?   https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/cleanup-audio-jumble
<BenB> cjwatson: now I at least have the option to use local packages / ISOs (why not give that manual option in both installers?)
<cjwatson> Mirv: that said, if it actually gets tested it probably could be released
<cjwatson> BenB: unfortunately they conflict for awkward reasons, so it's not possible
<BenB> cjwatson: it still doesn't work, though - it tries to mount all my disks (which is a bunch), but apparently not sdk1, where the ISO is, and finds no ISO. I see no option to pass the ISO path manually.
<BenB> cjwatson: I can see the ISO on the shell, it's in /hd-media/ubuntu-*.iso
 * BenB is having dinner, too, BTW :)
<BenB> (and it's cold, because I tried this :) )
<ogra> hwilde, that spec is quite outdated
<Mirv> cjwatson: yeah, there's really no contributions in gobuntu, and indeed Mark's e-mail sparked discussion. but the release just shouldn't be left "in the air", instead decided if announcement about "no gobuntu 8.04" should be done or something
<ogra> hwilde, i hope we can get something up to date together for sound stuff during UDS
<Mirv> or, "gobuntu is now achieved by pressing F6 twice in the boot menu and selecting Only Free Software"...
 * BenB makes a note of that
 * BenB wants only Free Software
<hwilde> ogra, yeah that's what i'm thinking but it says  Completed:  	2008-04-24   by: 	Ted Gould
<ogra> well, i guess that means just that pulse eneterd the desktop back then
<ogra> *entered
<ogra> s/back then/during hardy/
 * BenB makes a wave for pulse
<ogra> pulse still needs lots of love ... but at least kida works
<hwilde> ogra, any idea if this bug might be fixed?  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-source-2.6.22/+bug/131439
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 131439 in linux-source-2.6.22 "No sound with AMD DeviceCS5536 [Geode companion] Audio" [Medium,Confirmed]
<hwilde> i've got sound, but if you queue multiple sounds they don't wait for each other to finish
<hwilde> the event handling is borked
<ogra> CS5536  isnt that one without alsa driver ?
 * ogra looks at the bug
<Mirv> maybe I'll post something on gobuntu-devel anyway
<hwilde> ogra, alsa project is tracking the same bug   (sign in guest mode to view)  https://bugtrack.alsa-project.org/alsa-bug/view.php?id=3288
 * ogra sighs abou FFs cert exception handling
<hwilde> accept temporarily :/
<ogra> yeah, i did
<ogra> and i remembered right, thats the one without alsa support, oss only until alsa fixes that
<ogra> some of my ltsp users have these sadly
<ogra> ah, there is apprently a patch
<hwilde> nah
<hwilde> that just forces it to play at 48k
<ogra> -	if (dmix->type == SND_PCM_TYPE_DSNOOP)
<ogra> +	if (dmix->type == SND_PCM_TYPE_DSNOOP ||
<ogra> +	    ! dmix->bindings)
<ogra> that one ?
<hwilde> i've recompiled it a dozen different ways
<hwilde> when you send a sound to the amd geode, it returns the finished event immediately
<hwilde> it doesn't wait until the sound is finished playing
<hwilde> so if you queue up multipel sounds, it jumbles them all up together and it sounds really stupid
<hwilde> i've standardize the bitrates, frequencies, converted them to .mp3, ogg,  played them through different libraries, etc
<hwilde> I think it's just a hardware bug in the amd geode companion, but that blueprint got my hopes up :)
<hwilde> "Fix the Linux audio mess once and for all"
<hwilde> where did you get that dmix->bindings patch
<ogra> from the alsa bug
<hwilde> link?
<ogra> the one you gave me :)
<ogra> err, no
<hwilde> the only patch on that page is "Set a fixed rate (48000 Hz )"
<hwilde> where did you find that dmix patch
<ogra> the one linked from the lp bug you pointed me
<ogra> to
<hwilde> where???
<ogra> i'm just talking to a thin client manufacturer in #ltsp who sells devices with the CS5536, he says it works fine ....
<ogra> i wonder where the difference is
<hwilde> it works fine in Windows :p
<hwilde> seriously tho where is the link to that patch with dmix
 * BenB waits for cjwatson 
<hwilde> the only links on the launchpad #131439 are to alsa track #3288 which are all about forcing 48KHz.  there is nothing about dmix there
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 131439 in linux-source-2.6.22 "No sound with AMD DeviceCS5536 [Geode companion] Audio" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/131439
<ogra> i clicked on one fo the links in the bug you gave me,
<hwilde> you're telling me there is a link on that page ubottu just gave that has a patch with that dmix code?
<ogra> hmm, even more people in #ltsp confirm to not have probs with cs5535
<hwilde> I do not see it - i've clicked all the links
<ogra> i tell you that i clicked on the alsa link in the bug, had to click on "guest account" and it took me to a page with that patch
<hwilde> will you give hte url or not :/
<hwilde> the alsa link https://bugtrack.alsa-project.org/alsa-bug/view.php?id=3288  does not have anything about that dmix
<hwilde> ogra, cmon I want to see that patch
 * jdong wonders how the heck g-p-m calculates power usage...
<jdong> rather, charge time.
<jdong> there's no way the integral of this charge time graph comes out to 5 hours
<BenB> hey, jeos is cool.
<jdong> it is very cool
<jdong> a fast way to get a stripped down Ubuntu up and running
<Caesar> pitti: any chance #225333 can get fixed in Dapper?
<ScottK> For power usage it doesn't calculate, it just gets told (by HAL, IIRC).  Dunno about charge time.
<Riddell> good talk effie_jayx
<Riddell> hmm, no
<Riddell> good talk evand
<BenB> cjwatson: I filed about the tutorial https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/installation-guide/+bug/225348
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 225348 in installation-guide "USB install guide should point to hd-media, not just netboot" [Undecided,New]
<soren> cjwatson: The difference is that the three-arg version doesn't accept "-" as the $file.
<soren> cjwatson: I didn't realise until afterwards that the changelog was blowing the problem out of proportion.
<DexterF> hi
<DexterF> will the 8.04 live CD try to auto assemble linux md raid arrays from 0xFD partitions? if: how? udev? initrd? init.d? any way to make it not do that?
<evand> thanks Riddell
<BenB> duh!
<BenB> could it be that it's impossible to mix the i386 boot.img.gz with an amd64.iso?
<BenB> I only now realize that I did that
<jdong> ScottK: seems like it profiles charge time like discharge time based on percentage readings polled from the battery
<jdong> ScottK: though there appears to be a disconnect over how it parses its profiled data and how I parse the same data
<BenB> cjwatson, hwilde: yes, in fact, that was my problem why the ISO was not found. I used the i386 boot.img.gz with an amd64.iso
<cjwatson> BenB: ah, yes, that definitely wouldn't work!
<cjwatson> and not to mention that you're probably booting with a 32-bit kernel and that won't be able to execute 64-bit binaries
<BenB> cjwatson: "I just downloaded the file linked there" :)
<BenB> will add it to the "fix tutorial" bug
<BenB> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/installation-guide/+bug/225348
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 225348 in installation-guide "USB install guide should point to hd-media, not just netboot" [Undecided,New]
<BenB> cjwatson: I'll also file a bug about a nicer boot.img.gz or other download which contains a script and everything (apart from ISO) needed to make a USB stick.
<cjwatson> well, you can if you like although it's already on our UDS agenda
<cjwatson> which will already get way more attention than a bug :-)
<BenB> UDS?
<cjwatson> Ubuntu Developer Summit
<BenB> (this is my first ubuntu install :) )
<cjwatson> it's our planning meeting in Prague later this month
<BenB> cjwatson: actually, a script should not be needed, right? if you provide a boot.img.gz with a FAT size of 1 GB, I only need to mount it and copy the ISO into it.
<BenB> (or maybe 800MB, given that ISOs are 650 something MB)
<BenB> all I'd need is to download 2 files, an USB stick with 1 GB, an ability to mount it (even on Windows), and a raw disk write utility (may be problem on Windows, trivial on Linux)
<BenB> then link the tutorial on the download page, and off into the flash age! :)
<BenB> I guess I could even create the image (for i386 and amd64) and tutorial.
<cjwatson> yeah, I was actually wondering the same earlier today
<cjwatson> it might well make sense given that we don't ship netinst images
<cjwatson> I think I might change that for hardy-updates
<cjwatson> BenB: change in my local tree now, and d-i has to be uploaded before 8.04.1 anyway, so I ought to remember ...
<cjwatson> BenB: there's been a rawrite.exe kicking around for ages
<ogra> cjwatson, i always wondered if that supports USB disks
<ogra> do you know ?
<cjwatson> I admit I don't know
<ogra> i was pondering putting it in the classmate install instructions ...
<cjwatson> rawrite is from the dawn of time so it might well not
<ogra> but i guess i need to find a windows install and just test
<slangasek> omg, rawrite
<highvoltage> now there's a blast from the past :)
<zul> slangasek: heh talk about old school
 * ogra goes back to celebrate this socialistic public holiday thats based on imperialistic riots :)
<BenB> ogra: the *real* reason is that we want to have a day free when the summer starts :)
<ogra> BenB, haha
<Lightkey> omg is that Ben Bucksch? ;p
<BenB> Lightkey: yes, it is.
<BenB> where do we know each other from?
<Lightkey> #mozilla.de
<BenB> ah! :-) hey
<BenB> vaguely remembered it
<Lightkey> hey!
 * Lightkey finger BenB too
<ogra> lots of bored germans here curing their hangover today eh ?
<Lightkey> a long time since Beonex ;p
<BenB> yup.... I'm fine, though, still working on Mozilla stuff for various companies.
<emgent> heya
<slangasek> ogra: hrm, really?  I don't remember anything like that plug the last time I was in Czechia /or/ France; does that just mean my memory is going?
<slangasek> hmm, echan
<slangasek> :)
<ogra> slangasek, they often ise the normal SCHUKO standard :)
 * ogra switches oever as well 
<Dozzman> erm
<Dozzman> hello
<Dozzman> i need some help with my raid configuration thingy
<Dozzman> i boot into the 8.04 live CD but my raid is being seen as 2 seperate hard drives.
<Dozzman> rather than 1 big volume
<cjwatson> for RAID installation, you need to use the alternate install CD
<cjwatson> the desktop CD installer doesn't yet support RAID
<Dozzman> oki doki
<Dozzman> ill try that
<Dozzman> thanks man
<cjwatson> you're welcome
<BenB> succeeded in installing and booting Ubuntu.
<BenB> cjwatson, hwilde: thanks!
<cjwatson> great, thanks for the feedback
<BenB> cjwatson: shall I create the images and tutorial, or will you do that anyways after "UDS"?
<cjwatson> you're welcome to go ahead, and if we do something more formal later, all the better
 * ogra is very much after it ... i dont want to have another super custom image to maintain for cpmc8.10
<BenB> ogra: ?
<ogra> BenB, i'm maintining the ubuntu image for classmate PCs
<BenB> ogra: so, you're hoping to use the same USB stick installer image?
<ogra> which makes an edubuntu desktop run in a 2G flash disk on 256M .... and indeed requires lots of customization that i'd rather not like to have
<ogra> easy usb images by default will make my life easier :)
<ogra> i wont be able to use the same but base on that easily
<ogra> even though my focus would rather be on the desktop CD with ubiquity than on d-i
<BenB> but you have that already, no? boot.img.gz. All I'm proposing is essentially to increase the default FAT size and update the tutorial.
<ogra> no, i use a squashfs/unionfs setup
<ogra> d-i doesnt help much here
<ogra> even though i couls write a udeb and use d-i to dump the image in place and set it up
<ogra> *could
<ogra> hmm
<ogra> thats actually a good idea :)
<DexterF> will the 8.04 live CD try to auto assemble linux md raid arrays from 0xFD partitions? if: how? udev? initrd? init.d? any way to make it not do that?
<ogra> he desktop CD doesnt do raid
<ogra> (afaik)
<hwilde> you have to hit the other options in the beginning I think F4 or something
<ogra> itym alternate :)
<emgent> norsetto: o/
<norsetto> emgent: is that the right arm or the left one?
<emgent> left :)
<norsetto> emgent: ah :-)
<emgent> right is bad IMHO!
<norsetto> emgent: well, thats what they do in the city hall ....
<Nafallo> ogra: does do raid if you manually install the correct stuff :-)
<emgent> gh
<ogra> Nafallo, desktop ?
<emgent> i go to eat. see you later
<Nafallo> ogra: graphical livething indeed.
<ogra> ah, well, indeed after you'Re booted into the desktop you can set up raid :)
<Nafallo> ogra: I've used it to recover things on mdraid+lvm logical partitions :-)
<bryce> ted1: btw I put your wishlist up here - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/X/DesktopWishlist - feel free to add as you think of things
<bryce> ted1: once something is added to that page, I promise it to be implemented in under 42 minutes
<ogra> 42 the answer to everything :)
<ted1> bryce: Wow, can I have Intel drivers that work :)
<bryce> ted1: that was done 42 minutes ago
<bryce> ted1: maybe you missed out though
<ted1> bryce: :(
<pwnguin> well, i'd like to see wacom autodetect work, and apparently that needs hotplug
<bryce> pwnguin: yup
<bryce> pwnguin: I plan to put some time into wacom tablets in the coming months
<ted1> bryce: Is X seriously going to use HAL?  Read only or write too?
<jdong> ted1: doesn't X already use HAL for input hotplugging?
<bryce> no, we found input hotplug to be too buggy during hardy so didn't switch over to it
<bryce> ted1: that's the plan
<bryce> ted1: however I think it's a mistake to switch until we have decent gui config tools
<ted1> What is there to configure?  It's all hot-hot-hot ;)
<ted1> bryce: So are you going to have a UDS session on that?
<bryce> ted1: configuration is needed if the user don't want the defaults
<BenB> cjwatson: I think this is all that's needed https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/225402 , plus a better tutorial (which I can write)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 225402 in ubuntu "Increase FAT size for hd-media/boot.img.gz" [Undecided,New]
<bryce> ted1: I don't know what uds sessions there'll be, but input hotplug is high on our todo list, so stands to reason
<cjwatson> BenB: ok, dropped onto the 8.04.1 list, thanks
<BenB> thanks
<ted1> bryce: Okay.  Do you know if GCC is doing a hotplug config tool for X already?
<cjwatson> bryce: would appreciate your letting me know what your highest-priority UDS sessions would be
<bryce> cjwatson: ok will do.  I've been gathering background data in preparation for that
<bryce> ted1: not as far as I know.  gcc seems a bit slow even in picking up the xrandr gui, so I don't expect to see efforts from them towards an input config tool.  I could be wrong though.
<ted1> bryce: Okay.
<ted1> bryce: Are we encouraging hardware manufacturer folks to come to UDS?
<ted1> bryce: I think it'd be useful for them to just hear the hallway chatter of how people hate their drivers ;)
<bryce> ted1: heh
<bryce> ted1: I suspect intel will have some folks there, I don't think amd or nvidia were invited
<hunger> You should invite ati/amd then...
<hunger> My damn graphics card is still not able to render 3D without crashing the whole box:-(
<ted1> I'd say invite nVidia too.  It'd be helpful for them to see that we're not ALL trying to steal their IP.
<bryce> hunger: well from what I've seen, AMD/ATI cares only about -fglrx
<bryce> hunger: I spoke directly with alex deucher at XDC08 about the compiz crash bugs already, and he pointed me to a dozen patches
<hunger> bryce: That does not support my damn card... it is a mobile fire gl which differs from supported cards by the pci ID.
<sladen> ted1: it's been really good since Intel and ATI started showing up
<bryce> hunger: unfortunately the ati-compiz-crash bugs lack backtraces and other detailed information that would help in tying them to fixes
<ted1> hunger: You could probably fix that with a hex editor ;)
<hunger> bryce: I never ran compiz... I need to work on my box:-)
<bryce> hunger: I packaged up alex's recommended patches and asked on a bunch of ati-compiz-crash bug reports to test, but so far only 3 people did, and none found it fixed things for them, so...
<hunger> But glxgears and similar stuff relyable crash the mashine.
<ted1> sladen: I agree it has gotten better.  But more communication is key.
<hunger> bryce: Which package is that?
<cjwatson> kees: I'm not entirely sure why you said that bug 222667 isn't a bug report? It's not like the three-word reports that you usually mark that way
<ted1> I think in general they think that things are going great for Linux, and that's just not the case.  There are a lot of holes they they could help with.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 222667 in gcc-3.4 "cannot open /usr/share/info/gcc-3.3.info.gz: No such file" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/222667
<bryce> hunger: -ati
<hunger> bryce: I am using that I think. Everything 3D crashes after about 30s.
<kees> cjwatson: checking...
<kees> cjwatson: err, I must have typo'd something -- I did a ton of bug triage yesterday.
<ffm> How long will it be before a _very_ simple patch is accepted?
<ffm>  gnome-vfs hard-codes its webbrowser as firefox sometimes, but not always.
<ffm>  I fixed the two times it did, so that it used gnome-www-browser
<ffm> How do I get it to qualify for a sru?
<jdong> ffm: have you filed the necessary paperwork as per the SRU documentation on the wiki?
<ffm> jdong, not yet.
<ffm> jdong, where is said paperwork?
<jdong> ffm: I'd recommend doing that first, as it's a key requirement before a SRU can be considered
<ffm> !sru
<ubottu> Stable Release Update information is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
<jdong> !sru
<jdong> starcraft
<jdong> oh shoot
<jdong> umm... I'm busy doing homework. pay no attention to the focus leak above.
<ffm> Odd...
<ffm> I'm able to apt-get source for gnome-vfs, but cannot find it in synaptic.
<cjwatson> apt-get source operates on source package names; synaptic operates on binary package names
<cjwatson> $ apt-cache showsrc gnome-vfs | grep ^Binary
<cjwatson> Binary: libgnomevfs2-common, libgnomevfs2-0, libgnomevfs2-bin, libgnomevfs2-extra, libgnomevfs2-0-dbg, libgnomevfs2-dev
<elmo> cjwatson: you can apt-get source binary too
<elmo> it DTRT
<cjwatson> true
<cjwatson> still, ffm's comment is due to the other way round
<cjwatson> as in, gnome-vfs won't be findable in synaptic because there's no binary of that name
<ffm> Who do I subscribe to subscribe the main uploaders?
<cjwatson> ffm: beware that much of GNOME has moved over to a new VFS framework called gvfs, so you might want to check that too
<cjwatson> ffm: ubuntu-main-sponsors
<cjwatson> (NEVER subscribe ubuntu-core-dev)
<ffm> cjwatson, Ah.
<ffm> cjwatson, why not?
<cjwatson> because we'll shout at you
<cjwatson> :-)
<cjwatson> only ubuntu-main-sponsors has signed up to general patch review; there are people in ubuntu-core-dev that haven't volunteered for that
<cjwatson> I only mention it because people do it every so often, or assign ubuntu-core-dev to a bug or something crazy like that
<ffm> Ok, can someone upload bug #223922 to hardy-proposed?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 223922 in gnome-vfs "gnome-vfs hardcodes to firefox" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/223922
<hwilde> just go to ubuntu-bugs and ask them to review it
<cjwatson> you might want to do it during European working hours when our main GNOME maintainer is around
* cjwatson changed the topic of #ubuntu-devel to: Intrepid open, go wild! | Ubuntu 8.04 LTS released! | Development of Ubuntu (not support, not application development on Ubuntu) | #ubuntu for support and general discussion for dapper/feisty/gutsy/hardy, #ubuntu+1 for intrepid | #ubuntu-motu for getting involved in development | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment | See #ubuntu-bugs for http://wiki.ubuntu.com/HelpingWithBugs
* sladen changed the topic of #ubuntu-devel to: Archive: Intrepid open, go wild! | Ubuntu 8.04 LTS released! | Development of Ubuntu (not support, not application development on Ubuntu) | #ubuntu for support and general discussion for dapper/feisty/gutsy/hardy, #ubuntu+1 for intrepid | #ubuntu-motu for getting involved in development | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment | See #ubuntu-bugs for http://wiki.ubuntu.com/HelpingWithBugs
<ffm> Ok, can someone accept the bug into intrepid?
<hwilde> so cjwatson ... shouldn't I get an error message or something if it's going into read only filesystem?  dmesg looks all normal
<cjwatson> ffm: 22:09 <cjwatson> you might want to do it during European working hours when our main GNOME maintainer is around
<cjwatson> hwilde: I'd have thought so, yes. It was just a guess
<norsetto> hmmm, is that a green light to uploads for intrepid?
<cjwatson> yes
<ffm> cjwatson, ok... isn't the process to get into a devel release less restrictive?
<jdong> sweet!
<jdong> :D
<LaserJock> \o/
<cjwatson> ffm: yes
<jdong> CRACK! CRACK! CRACK!
<cjwatson> ffm: typically patches ought to be in the development release before being backported to stable releases
<ajmitch> jdong: need sedatives already?
<ffm> cjwatson, so, it wouldn't hurt to upload it? It can be reverted if it breaks anything...
<hwilde> cjwatson, I made this install on a harddrive, then cp -apR everything onto a flashcard, and it preserved all the permissions and everything.  i've done this before but is there something special?
<jdong> ajmitch: sorry just had a large cup of coffee :)
<cjwatson> ffm: talk to the GNOME maintainer, who should be around during European working hours (third time I've said this)
<ffm> cjwatson, Ok.
<ffm> cjwatson, Would that be Sebastien Bacher?
<cjwatson> hwilde: err, your filesystem will have a new UUID then, so you'll need to hunt down the old UUID and replace it
<cjwatson> ffm: yes
<cjwatson> hwilde: /etc/fstab at least, possibly also somewhere in the initramfs
<hunger> hardy-backports archive has a broken signature according to aptitude.
<cjwatson> hwilde: oh, not the initramfs, but the root= bit in /boot/grub/menu.lst
<ffm> cjwatson, what's his irc? sbacher?
<norsetto> ffm: seb128
<hwilde> cjwatson, yeah I did that already - it boots grub fine, it mounts everything in fstab fine, but it's read only
<cjwatson> hwilde: you can use sudo vol_id -u <device> to discover the new UUID
<cjwatson> hwilde: ok, I'm afraid I don't know then
<hwilde> no I hardcode it to /dev/hda1 so I can port the image to other systems
<cjwatson> ffm: you can look this sort of thing up in Launchpad, usually
<cjwatson> hwilde: are you sure your flash card is /dev/hda1? that would be unusual
<ffm> cjwatson,  I did, his nick isn't on there.
<cjwatson> hwilde: flash devices are often /dev/sd*
<hwilde> it runs through an ide controller, so yes it's hda1
<hwilde> and /home is hda2
<hwilde> and these are both mounted fine
<hwilde> but read only mode
<hwilde> even tho all the ownership and permissions look fine to me
 * cjwatson wonders how far the autosync will get
<cjwatson> oh well, I'll leave it running overnight :)
<bd_> ooo intrepid open
<bd_> how long does the universe sync usually take to kick in?
<LaserJock> a looong time
<Keybuk> couple of days?
<cjwatson> bd_: I've started it, but it usually takes a while to sort its life out
<cjwatson> though it's up to f, which is pretty good going
<LaserJock> cjwatson: does that include building? or just syncing the source?
<cjwatson> just syncing
<cjwatson> haven't flushed to the archive yet
 * ajmitch imagines that building will take a good deal longer
<cjwatson> correct
<bd_> and sorting out NEW I suppose?
<cjwatson> WAY longer
<cjwatson> that sucks up as much archive admin time as we're willing to give it
<bd_> heh
<cjwatson> though some Soyuz changes this cycle should make it quicker
<bd_> fortunately the package I'm interested in is already in hardy :)
<tonyyarusso> Slighly odd question:  Are certain UDSs more interesting than others?  For instance, before an LTS versus the first one after an LTS?
<LaserJock> is MoM now showing Intrepid by chance?
<cjwatson> tonyyarusso: I think the project is so big and complicated now that that sort of thing doesn't make a lot of difference
<Keybuk> LaserJock: should be
<tonyyarusso> cjwatson: Ah, okay.
<LaserJock> Keybuk: awesome
<cjwatson> tonyyarusso: I mean, the answer is probably yes, but I don't have a way to predict it in advance :-)
 * tonyyarusso would love to go to one, but needs to convince someone the send him - maybe for Intrepid+2 I guess.  (Intrepid+1 would make me miss school, and I highly doubt Canonical would ask me to Intrepid's)
<cjwatson> sponsored invitations have already gone out for Intrepid's, FWIW
<tonyyarusso> righto
<ffm> when's intrepid+1? more importanly, where?
<tonyyarusso> Thing is, I don't actually write any code, but would like to be able to talk about ideas and work on tracking down the people that could make them happen.  Can also give input as a user/sysadmin, and maintain one (relatively minor) package (packaging only, not code)
<Keybuk> ffm: first week of December, SF/Bay Area
<tonyyarusso> Keybuk: December?  I thought they were usually mid-Novemberish
<Keybuk> tonyyarusso: we've tried to move them a little further away from the release
<sladen> tonyyarusso: ideally the spec process (and the phones, wiki and launchpad) mean that it *is* possible to participate and not be there in person
<Keybuk> and then we had a fight, because of a little American holiday
<Keybuk> and then we realised there was a german holiday
<Keybuk> so it ended up a bit later ;)
<ffm> Keybuk, hm.. still a bit far for me... but more doable than prauge.
<ffm> Keybuk, howabout +2?
<sladen> tonyyarusso: (I've managed, on the odd occasion when I haven't actually turned up in person
<Keybuk> ffm: Europe somewhere
<tonyyarusso> sladen: Theoretically, yes, but I doubt you can get as much done that way.  (Plus, if I'm here, I'm working, but if I'm shipped overseas, clearly I have to be doing those things instead of other stuff)
<Keybuk> ffm: the May UDS is in Europe, the November/December one in the Americas
<tonyyarusso> Keybuk: hehe, gotcha.
 * tonyyarusso votes somewhere in the Nordic countries for +2
<ffm> Keybuk, Anything happening on the eastern coast of NA?
<Keybuk> tonyyarusso: we had a developer sprint in Norway last year
<Keybuk> ffm: you missed Boston, which was the last UDS :-)
<ffm> Keybuk, yeah, i was too young and not as involved.
<Keybuk> pattern would indicate we'd likely be East Coast US or CA again in Nov/Dec 09 - but that's only an intelligent prediction
<ted1> Why not somewhere in the middle of the US.  Denver?
<tonyyarusso> Keybuk: yeah, but I'd be useless at a dev sprint, whereas for UDS I could actually accomplish something.
<hwilde> vegas baby
<LaserJock> Iowa!
<tonyyarusso> Minneapolis!
<tonyyarusso> (Drupal has had loads of events here lately)
<Keybuk> LaserJock: you'd have to find _something_ in Iowa ;)
<Keybuk> ted1: isn't that the one with the airport that doubles as a future concentration camp for the new world order?
<tonyyarusso> There's lots of corn.  And soybeans.  And pigs.  Oh yeah, and crazy Iowans.
<ted1> Keybuk: ?  Oh, do you mean the tent design?  I actually like the design.
<LaserJock> hmm, how about Hawaii? that sounds nice
<mario_limonciell> LaserJock, +1.
<mario_limonciell> i'll go back to IA for a UDS :)
<Keybuk> ted1: http://www.anomalies-unlimited.com/Denver_Airport.html
<LaserJock> Kansas City wouldn't be bad I don't think
<mario_limonciell> but if you are gonna do midwest, Chicago or Minneapolis make sense
<mario_limonciell> or KC yeah
<ScottK> I like the Las Vegas idea.
<tonyyarusso> (Who decides these things anyway?)
<ScottK> KC would be cool too.  I grew up there.
<tonyyarusso> Chicago wouldn't be bad - lots of Ubuntu there.  Mpls is closer to me though.  :)
<Keybuk> tonyyarusso: nobody really decides
<slangasek> mario_limonciell: nah, Ames is totally better than Chicago or Minneapolis ;)
<Keybuk> it depends what the options are really
<Keybuk> if someone's scoped out a hotel, with great conference facilities, excellent bandwidth, has local area knowledge, is willing to help find needed things nearby, etc. then it tends to tip the books
<tonyyarusso> Keybuk: well, surely at some point some person makes a decision.  Or do you just feed a wikipedia cities list into a random number generator?
<cjwatson> we usually give some general parameters to the Canonical admin (not sysadmin!) team and ask them to book us something
<mario_limonciell> slangasek, yeah but there's more night time like stuff for out of towners in the bigger cities
<Keybuk> we're back at SF because it's so easy to organise stuff there
<tonyyarusso> Keybuk: So, if I want it in my city, I should approach a venue and see if they're interested first?
<LaserJock> tonyyarusso: I imagine Mark has something of a say, as well as the COO
<Keybuk> tonyyarusso: or at least know that venues exist
<tonyyarusso> (The University is big on this stuff - hosted the Drupal thing, runs Ubuntu in some departments)
<tonyyarusso> (runs a mirror too)
<ted1> Keybuk: Hmm, I didn't really realize there were conspiracy theories around the airport.  How fun.
<Keybuk> LaserJock: Jane certainly cares about the cost ;)
<tonyyarusso> Keybuk: Is there somewhere I could get a list of all of the things we'd need, so I know what to look for?  Or a person to contact?
<Keybuk> tonyyarusso: believe it or not, we've never managed to host in a uni
<Keybuk> they don't tend to have the facilities we need
<Keybuk> Boston was at one point planned to be in MIT before it ended up at a hotel on campus instead
<LaserJock> Google HQ was rather nice
<tonyyarusso> Keybuk: yeah, that's why I'd need to know the facilities requirements.
<Keybuk> tonyyarusso: big cheap hotel, conference rooms, lots of bandwidth, nearby restaurants, good breakfast and lunch service
<LaserJock> a gigantic internet pipe for elmo to plugin into ;-)
<Keybuk> willing to accept the fact that we are just going to overrun their entire conference area ;)
<ted1> There's a Hyatt at the train station (not really, end of the public transit) in St. Louis that would probably satisfy those requirements.  I've done conferences there that went well.
<Keybuk> tonyyarusso: UDS isn't a talk/lecture style event
<cjwatson> preferably not one that chucks us out of the conference area in the evenings
<tonyyarusso> Keybuk: lol.  Well, I thik we have a shot here at least.
<Keybuk> so lecture theatres aren't that interesting
<Keybuk> medium size (now known ubiquitously as "hunsaker sized") conference rooms
<tonyyarusso> Keybuk: how many people attend?
 * ajmitch thinks that having UDS somewhere in .au or .nz would be nice for a change :)
<Keybuk> tonyyarusso: 100-200
<Keybuk> ajmitch: you were at UDS Sydney, no? :)
<ajmitch> Keybuk: sure
<LaserJock> ajmitch: except for the sheep  and sucky bandwidth caps
<ajmitch> I remember the badndwidth disaster
<ion_> ajmitch: You must mean Tampere, Finland.
<Keybuk> tonyyarusso: it's not a guarantee of course, but having some locals willing to scope things out for the admin team really does grease the wheels
<Keybuk> the less research and investigation work Claire has to do, the more Claire will favour the area ;)
<Keybuk> Prague has been great because the locals are helping us find things nearby
<Keybuk> e.g. equipment hire
<norsetto> was it ever done in Rome?
<cjwatson> not as yet
<Daviey> join ubuntu see the world
<tonyyarusso> Keybuk: Claire?
<Keybuk> tonyyarusso: one of the Canonical admin team
<Daviey> Claire Rocks
<Keybuk> one of her jobs is organising UDS
<LaserJock> Daviey: that's a cool quote
 * norsetto notes down to talk with Claire at next UDS :-)
<Keybuk> petit girl with an elmo fetish ;)
<LaserJock> lol
<sladen> London, Oxford, Sydney, Montreal, Middle of now-where pretending to be Paris Airport, San Franciso, Sevilla, Boston MA, ...
<ion_> Rocks is an awesome surname.
<cjwatson> London .uk, Oxford .uk, Mataro .es, Sydney .au, Montreal .ca, Paris .fr, San Francisco .us, Sevilla .es, Boston .us
<cjwatson> sladen: you missed one :)
<sladen> Brazil too I guess
<Keybuk> sladen: you missed the bags of death
<tonyyarusso> Keybuk: The last Drupal event I went to was in the Campus Club - a catered dining room area that likely holds about 200.  Would that be the sort of thing you'd be going for for mingling, or just an open space?
<sladen> Keybuk: meh, how could I forget :)
<cjwatson> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperSummit
<Keybuk> tonyyarusso: would be somewhat large for mingling I would have thought ;)
<cjwatson> missing the old ones
<Keybuk> London and Oxford weren't really UDS
<Keybuk> though Oxford does fit the model we ended up with
<tonyyarusso> Keybuk: well, you can always huddle in one corner - 200 would be the "fire department defined" capacity, but it's plenty cozy (we probably had 30)
<cjwatson> Oxford was
<cjwatson> (due to model rather than intent, yes)
<Keybuk> I'd vaguely attempt to insert Brazil into that as well
<ajmitch> tonyyarusso: how many smallish rooms though?
<Keybuk> since that was a key early planning meeting
<LaserJock> tonyyarusso: the important part is to have lots of little rooms where people can BOF
<LaserJock> it's annoying to have 10 BOFs going on in the same room, can't hear a thing
<Keybuk> tonyyarusso: http://towers.corinthia.cz/data/events_corinthia/events_corinthia_1b.jpg
<tonyyarusso> ajmitch: Hundreds - just depends how far away they are.  This is a campus that houses 65,000 students.  Plus, there are a dozen or so related state schools within the metro area.
<Keybuk> that is allegedly a 3D of the area we have for prague
<Keybuk> except that it's been split into rooms for us
<Daviey> Dosn't look that big!
<tonyyarusso> Keybuk: ah, I see.
<sladen> 2003-04 London,  when was debconf in Brazil, Oxford was August?
<Keybuk> http://people.netsplit.com/~scott/events_corinthia_13.png
<tonyyarusso> How many conference rooms + how many mingling rooms?
<Keybuk> err
<Keybuk> http://people.ubuntu.com/~scott/events_corinthia_13.png
<cjwatson> I've edited DeveloperSummit to add the history
<tonyyarusso> What's required in terms of A/V, etc. ?
<Keybuk> tonyyarusso: hotels tend to charge a fortune for that kind of thing
<cjwatson> (though "first Canonical meeting" is stretching it given that that was pre-name)
<Keybuk> were we still weirdos then
<Keybuk> or had we moved to warthogs
<cjwatson> no
<cjwatson> warthogs
<cjwatson> also $COMPANY
<tonyyarusso> Keybuk: What would you want if it was free?
<sladen> there's a picture somewhere with Canonical written (along with a dozen names) on a whiteboard
<Keybuk> tonyyarusso: projectors, PA for the talk area, etc.
<Keybuk> sladen: I have that picture somewhere
<sladen> one day I'll write a book ;)
<soren> What's the canonical (har) way to avoid starting a daemon on the buildd's if its package is installed as a build dependency?
<Nafallo> /go #canonical-sysadmin
<Daviey>  /go #fail
<tonyyarusso> Keybuk: Any idea what the budget is for the facilities?
<tonyyarusso> or, "make us an offer"?
<Nafallo> Daviey: indeed.
<Keybuk> http://people.ubuntu.com/~scott/dscn0999.jpg
<bd_> soren: policy-rc.d
<bd_> see /usr/share/doc/sysv-rc/README.policy-rc.d
<norsetto> famigghia!? Oh dear ...
<bd_> .gz
<tonyyarusso> norsetto: You noticed that one over "Cockfeelers"?
<norsetto> tonyyarusso: petricore?
<Keybuk> tonyyarusso: Cock FOSTERS
<tonyyarusso> norsetto: I don't know what that means.
<tonyyarusso> Keybuk: Um, oh.  Is that better?
<Keybuk> for some reason, the fact that there is a suburb of London called "Cockfosters" highly amuses Australians
<Keybuk> and that the train they get on from the airport has "Cockfosters" written on the front
<Keybuk> and that the announcer says "This train is for Cockfosters"
<ajmitch> I wonder why
<soren> bd_: Hmm...
<tonyyarusso> Keybuk: Now, this one goes off the picture, but is that "YOURMOM" I see on the right?
<Keybuk> I will carry the image, to my death bed, of jdub, arms spread wide, at the top of his voice exclaiming "YES! I AM A COCKFOSTER!"
<bd_> soren: pbuilder does this, if you're looking for an example :)
<soren> bd_: The postinst is already using invoke-rc.d
<Keybuk> tonyyarusso: don't think so, can't remember
<bd_> and debootstrap temporarily uses it
<cjwatson> Keybuk: that's a lot of top of voice
<soren> bd_: Er.. I don't see how that relates to my problem?
<cjwatson>  * command was 'dpkg-source -sn -x /home/lp_archive/syncs/intercal_0.28-1.dsc'
<cjwatson>  [dpkg-source output:] dpkg-source: error: Expected ^@@ in line 3 of diff `/home/lp_archive/syncs/intercal_0.28-1.diff.gz'
<cjwatson> E: 'dpkg-source -x' failed for /home/lp_archive/syncs/intercal_0.28-1.dsc [return code: 2304].
<soren> bd_: Oh, I lie. It doesn't depend on sysv-rc, so there's no invoke-rc.d
<cjwatson> of all the packages to fail
<soren> bd_: I still don't see what pbuilder or debootstrap has to do with anything, though.
<bd_> soren: Just saying that they make use of the same mechanism to disable init scripts
<bd_> so if you were looking to see how it's set up, there you are
<soren> bd_: ...but I'm not doing anything akin to pbuilder or debootstrap. I'm the package maintainer. Never mind, I've worked it out.
<bd_> soren: sorry, from the original question I thought you were setting up a chroot or something...
<soren> No, no, not at all :)
<soren> I just had a package that got pulled in as a b-d and it caused the build to fail because it was trying to start a daemon.
<Keybuk> http://people.ubuntu.com/~scott/dscn0998.jpg
<Keybuk> ^ I have to throw that one up simply because it's so amusing
<Keybuk> "Who are these people? Why are they so young? And why do they all have so much hair?!"
<cjwatson> "why are they all haggard and ancient-looking now?"
<tonyyarusso> How much older is Mark than the next one?
<norsetto> keybuk: why are they so happy ... seems almost like a funeral ....
<cjwatson> "the next one"?
<tonyyarusso> That is, assuming he's the oldest.
<Keybuk> norsetto: we knew what was coming
<cjwatson> oh, righgt
<cjwatson> no, Mark isn't the oldest there
<Keybuk> tonyyarusso: oh, Lamont would definitely be the oldest in that
<LaserJock> Keybuk: dang, jdub's got those devil eyes
<tonyyarusso> ah
<norsetto> I bet the 5th from the left is cjwatson
<cjwatson> norsetto: yes
<Keybuk> norsetto: assuming you ignore mdz (sitting down) then yes
<norsetto> keybuck: yes, only those standing: ah ah, gotcha
<LaserJock> is that fabio on the far right?
<Keybuk> it is
<norsetto> keybuck: and you would be?
<Keybuk> norsetto: next to Fabio
<norsetto> Keybuk: closed eyes?
<Keybuk> yeah
<Keybuk> I hate camera flashes
<norsetto> Keybuk: you are much younger than I expected (or at least, you were :-))
<Keybuk> everyone says that
<Keybuk> I must have been 23 in that picture
<LaserJock> just a little kid
<Keybuk> and annoyingly slim too *sigh*
<ajmitch> that is an interesting photo
<Keybuk> :-)
<Keybuk> half of us are still here
<cjwatson> more than half, 9/14
<cjwatson> though only 8/14 continuous ;-)
<Nafallo> oooh
<infinity> I just love elmo in that picture.
<Nafallo> :-)
<infinity> I miss the razor-free, basement hippy look.
<Kopfgeldjaeger> n8
<Robot101> hmm, this photo makes me think we've not done a very good job of recording collabora's history
<infinity> Robot101: No basement hippy photos of you guys in the early years?
<Keybuk> Robot101: there must at least be photos from that debconf?
<Keybuk> I liked that debconf
<Keybuk> even though I didn't actually have a bed for the entire week
<Robot101> Keybuk: heh, yes
<Robot101> incorporated 20/07/05
<Robot101> gotta get planning that 3rd birthday party
<Robot101> its juuuust after GUADEC
<Keybuk> that sounds about right
<Keybuk> I vaguely remember it being my birthday on the flight back
<lamont> Keybuk: good to see my picture is getting around...
<lamont> and yeah, I'm definitely the oldest in that picture
<persia> soren: For aolserver4, the package was split into a -core (with the interesting bits from a build-dep perspective) and a -server (with the actual server).  Were I responsible for a new split, I'd probably use libfoo, libfoo-dev, and foo, with foo as the server.
<norsetto> lamont: ok, next UDS you have a picure with me and scottk, will make you look a baby
<lamont> heh
 * lamont has met ScottK 
<zul> I would hope so
<lamont> heh
 * lamont won't be in Prague though
<zul> lamont: that sucks
 * LaserJock imagines people asking norsetto "heah, are you Mark's dad?" ;p
<norsetto> LaserJock: grandad even :-)
#ubuntu-devel 2008-05-02
<ogra> lamont, oh no .... i was looking forward to meet you
<lamont> ogra: again???
<ogra> heh
<ogra> .oO(and i could swear elmo lost a lot of weight together with his hair, but probably is only the beard)
<ogra> *it's
<infinity> ogra: No, he definitely shrunk.
<ogra> heh
<ogra> infinity, will you at least be in prague ? or do you skip again ?
<infinity> ogra: I'll be there.
<ogra> yay
<ogra> you wont regret
<ogra> prague is the most beautiful city in .eu imho :)
 * lamont would love to visit prague someitme
<ogra> (beyond wimen and beer they also invented art deco)
<ogra> ;)
<ffm> cjwatson, in "European working hours", where in Europe?
<cjwatson> Europe is not that big in timezone terms
<ogra> ffm, that doent really vary much
<cjwatson> as a general rule I don't give out ICBM coordinates :-)
<slangasek> lamont: you're really missing out on the opportunity to have Patty be your tour guide to all the ice cream shops in Prague
<ffm> cjwatson, darn, I wsa planning to wake him up.
<ffm> *was
<lamont> slangasek: maybe I'll take her with me when I go? :)
<slangasek> heh
<slangasek> that might be too late, she may have succeeded in retaining a second word in Czech by then
<hwilde> you know europeans only work like 25hrs /week
<cjwatson> damn, that reminds me, I meant to learn at least a few words of Czech
<ffm> hwilde, its insane.
<hwilde> the french govt tried to up it to 32 and they rioted
<slangasek> cjwatson: "prosÃ­m jedno pivo"
<ffm> personally, I wouldn't mind professionally programming or working for canonical.
<LaserJock> I thought it was 35/week for France
<ffm> but then again i'm just a student.
<cjwatson> http://www.triplet.com/50-10_employment/50-20_workingtime.asp "The standard French working week is 35 hours"
<ogra> hwilde, what do i have to pay you to convince my GF that this is true ?
<LaserJock> hah
<persia> cjwatson: The most important thing to remember is that "No" is the affirmative response.
<slangasek> nebo "prosÃ­m jedno plzeÅskÃ© pivo"
<slangasek> persia: and /yes/ means "eat" ;)
<cjwatson> I can see how pivo might be a useful word to remember
<slangasek> :-)
<ogra> heh
<persia> /pivo/ /yes/ and /no/ will get one fairly far.
<slangasek> well, "jest" -> /yes/ is a command, so it will likely get you funny looks more than anything
<persia> Right.  Perhaps I should have eaten more last I was there.
<hwilde> ogra, I could keep her occupied for the remainder 15hrs you are working for a very small fee
 * persia heads off, thinking a dictionary might be handy
<slangasek> persia: coming to UDS this round?
<persia> slangasek: such is my intention
<ogra> persia, cool
<TheMuso> persia: It will be great to meet you in person.
 * TheMuso gets intrepid chroots ready./
<ogra> TheMuso, wow, you're fast
<slangasek> persia: huzzah
<TheMuso> ogra: Have you not seen the topic?
<norsetto> themuso: are you succesfull?
<cjwatson> I'm going to hold the autosync output for a bit anyway, since kees wants to get one last toolchain change in
<ogra> TheMuso, if someone added it to the end i would have seen it :P
<TheMuso> norsetto: Not sure yet.
<ogra> xchat snips off the front of the topic (which is still far better than xchat-gnome though)
<pochu> oh, so Intrepid is open! that means I need to start merging/syncing things... :)
<cjwatson> ogra: while irssi doesn't show the end unless you have a terminal window the width of London
<ogra> lol
<TheMuso> cjwatson: Damn right. Even a 1680x1050 resolution doesn't even allow for that. :p
<norsetto> themuso: I'm getting a failure because of bsdutils missing
<cjwatson> util-linux got uploaded, might be mid-build
<cjwatson> or mid-mirror
<TheMuso> norsetto: The only thing I can think of is the mirror you are using is not up to date yet.
<cjwatson>   bsdutils | 1:2.14~rc2-0ubuntu1 |      intrepid | amd64, hppa, i386, ia64, lpia, powerpc, sparc
<cjwatson> so *should* be in place
<norsetto> themuso, cjwatson: its http://archive.ubuntu.com
<cjwatson> which is a mirror :-)
<norsetto> ah ...
<ogra> did scott wake up our big mama already ?
 * ogra checks
<soren> Yes.
<ogra> geez
 * TheMuso goes to try and reproduce a pulseaudio high CPU load bug thats been reported...
<cjwatson> TheMuso: the hardy-proposed kernel upload today claimed to improve pulseaudio load
<cjwatson> in case you didn't see it
<TheMuso> cjwatson: Yeah I saw it, I want to try and reproduce without that kernel however.
<cjwatson>    * Kernel should use CONFIG_FAIR_CGROUP_SCHED. Fixes high load issues
<cjwatson>      with pulseaudio.
<cjwatson>      - LP: #188226
<cjwatson> ok
<elmo> I like the sound of that
<elmo> my impression of CFS so far has been entirely less than stellar
<jdong> I certainly haven't seen it perk anything up in terms of responsiveness
<slangasek> the other issue that was linked back to CFS was a total failure of synergy when running as non-root; is that referenced by the upload in hardy-proposed?
<elmo> that line is much funnier if you don't know synergy is a package
<Nafallo> hehe
<ogra> heh
<cjwatson> synergy is mentioned in bug 188226
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 188226 in linux "Kernel should use CONFIG_FAIR_CGROUP_SCHED" [Low,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/188226
<cjwatson> though only in passing, so I don't know for sure if it's the same thing
<infinity> elmo: I got the funny reading of that.  Didn't realise synergy was a package until you mentioned it.
<crimsun> TheMuso: the bug will remain reproducible until we pull in glitch-free PA, which requires alsa-lib 1.0.16.
<TheMuso> crimsun: great, however I have never had high load with pulse here.
<TheMuso> At least not that I've noticed.
<hwilde> TheMuso, is it stuttering ?
<TheMuso> hwilde: let me find you the bug report. I haven't experienced anything personally.
<TheMuso> hwilde: bug 190754
<hwilde> is it this one ?  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-source-2.6.22/+bug/131439
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 190754 in pulseaudio "Over-optimistic buffering in PulseAudio causes underruns (audible stuttering, pops)" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/190754
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 131439 in linux-source-2.6.22 "No sound with AMD DeviceCS5536 [Geode companion] Audio" [Medium,Confirmed]
<hwilde> the stutter! yeah
<hwilde> do you have the AMD Geode audio CS5536 ?
<TheMuso> hwilde: I am not the one who is experiencing it.
<TheMuso> hwilde: I am trying to reproduce it.
<hwilde> oh
<hwilde> can you find out if they have that hardware ? :)
<TheMuso> Well I'm going to mention that a new kernel is in hardy-proposed, and to test that to see if that helps them.
<hwilde> ubuntu audio team and alsa-project are tracking bugs on the AMD Geode Companion CS5536
<hwilde> same symptoms but it's pure hardware
<hwilde> (atleast until someone fixes it)
<TheMuso> Most people seem to be having problems with rhythmbox + pulseaudio, which to me sounds a little more like rhythmbox than anything else.
<TheMuso> However, I don't use rhythmbox, so I need to run it through its paces to see if I get similar behavior.
<hwilde> oh...my hardware stutters regardless of application, driver, file format, etc.
<hwilde> it's freakin embarassing
<elmo> TheMuso: I use amarok and pulse and have problems
<elmo> since hardy
<TheMuso> elmo: Amarok uses the xine backend afaik.
<elmo> TheMuso: which uses pulse
<TheMuso> Yeah I know.
<crimsun> elmo: what sort of problems?
<TheMuso> I'll install amarok later and try it out.
<elmo> crimsun: stutter under load that gutsy was fine with
<crimsun> right, linux.
<elmo> crimsun: general lag and slowdowns when I'm using amarok
<ffm> crimsun, http://www.alice.org/index.php?page=license is non-free, right?
<elmo> crimsun: *shrug* gutsy was better is my hand-wavy, non-scientific impression
<ffm> crimsun, they have the "this software includes foo" advert requirement
<infinity> ffm: Advertising clauses aren't non-free, just annoying and GPL-incompatible.
<ffm> infinity, could it be included in, say... universe?
<infinity> ffm: The license is free enough for main/universe, yes.
<cjwatson> that's just the 4-clause BSD licence
<ffm> It is, isn't it...
 * infinity nods.
<cjwatson> http://www.gnu.org/licenses/license-list.html#OriginalBSD is the FSF's analysis of it
<ffm> infinity, is it debian-ok?
<ogra> crimsun, do you think its possible to get upstream to split the source of the alsa plugins so we can get the jack-alsa plugin back in without having to do the cut ourselves ?
<TheMuso> ogra: There has actually been talk about getting jack back into main.
<infinity> ffm: Of course.
<ogra> TheMuso, jack back into main ?
<ogra> TheMuso, i doubt that will ever happen
<ffm> infinity, It can't be included in main, right?
<TheMuso> ogra: Yes, it was in main way back when, and was demoted to universe.
<ogra> i saw the dscussion though
<cjwatson> ffm: it *can* be included in main, as infinity already said.
<ogra> jack was surely never in main
<cjwatson> ffm: the only significant thing you can't do with it is combine it with GPLed works.
<ffm> cjwatson, infinity, because canonical would have to put a notice on all of their ads, wouldn't they?
<ogra> the plugins moved to main which was the reason why i disabled buildng of the jack plugin
<ffm> or am I misunderstanding the licence?
<TheMuso> ogra: Hrm I thought I remember seeing it in main back in the warty/hoary days.
<cjwatson> ffm: only if we specifically advertised use of that software
<TheMuso> ogra: Yeah I know that.
<ffm> cjwatson, Ahhh... like "this disk includes ALICE"
<cjwatson> right
<cjwatson> we only do that for a very small number of things
<infinity> ffm: Yes, if we advertise "Edubuntu, now with ALICE!", then we need to include their license blurb too.
<ffm> infinity, Which we are unlikely to do.
<ffm> Wait, what _do_ we advertise?
<infinity> ffm: Right.  Just as we're unlikely to advertise "Ubuntu, built on the cryptographic hooplah of OpenSSL!" and end up subject to their advertising clause.
<ffm> infinity, but doesn't that restrict our freedom?
 * ogra wants to meet this alice first before he advertises her with edubuntu
<cjwatson> a little, but it's not a practical problem
<LaserJock> lol
<infinity> ffm: Freedom to use, modify, and distribute, not so much freedom to write silly ads.
<infinity> ffm: We pick our fights carefully. :)
<cjwatson> it's an inconvenience, not an impediment
<ffm> ogra, lol.
<infinity> ffm: If we were against licenses that restricted ANY freedom, we couldn't carry GPL software either.
<infinity> ffm: We specifically state (both in Ubuntu and Debian) which freedoms we hold dear.
<ffm> We'd be... wait, that excluded New BSD, doesn't it?
<cjwatson> http://www.ubuntu.com/community/ubuntustory/licensing
<cjwatson> that lists the requirements
<infinity> ffm: The very act of copyrighting and licensing reduces freedoms, really.  The only "completely free" software would be public domain, but that's not terribly practical in the current world.
<infinity> ffm: So, yes, the link cjwatson posted is what we care about.
<ffm> infinity, public domain doesn't exist in the USA, or is legally dubious.
<ffm> infinity, I think cc-3
<infinity> ffm: And for Debian, http://www.debian.org/social_contract#guidelines
<ffm> infinity, I think cc-3 is probabbly the most free.
<LaserJock> ffm: it does in the US I believe, not in some European countries such as Germany
<infinity> ffm: No, any license restricts *some* freedom, even if it's the freedom to redistrubute without the license. :)
<infinity> ffm: So, yes.  The point is just to know which freedoms the distributions do care about, and evaluate licenses based on that.
<cjwatson> public domain certainly does exist in the US. Any software written by employees of the US Government is public domain.
<cjwatson> (which covers a non-trivial amount of interesting free software)
<ffm> If I want to get a package in debain + ubuntu, should I read both packaging guides?
<LaserJock> you can,  but you don't have to
<LaserJock> the packaging guide material in Ubuntu is largely based on Debian packaging material
<ffm> "It is commonly believed by non-lawyers that it is impossible to put a work into the public domain. Although copyright law generally does not provide any statutory means to "abandon" copyright so that a work can enter the public domain, this does not mean that it is impossible or even difficult, only that the law is somewhat unclear."
<ffm> Ah.
<ffm> (Wikipedia, btw)
<BenB> <cjwatson> Any software written by employees of the US Government is public domain.
<BenB> how nice!
<BenB> the geo data is also free. I wish they'd mandate that by law in europe, too.
<elmo> someone mentioned that at the FSFE/FTF law conference
<BenB> (I hope it only applies to paid work time, though)
<elmo> in the US, goverments tend to force stuff into the public domain
<elmo> in Europe, goverments tend to force stuff to be copyleft (if they do anything at all)
<BenB> same should be true for universities. there, situation is vice-versa: US unis are very closed, european ones very open, by culture not law.
<elmo> I'm not sure if the latter is 100% accurate, but it's an interestin gobservation
<slangasek> well, the federal government in the US forces stuff into the public domain
<slangasek> the state governments try to enforce copyright on their own laws
<elmo> ah, interesting
<BenB> elmo: europe is very heterogen. in germany, it even varies from department to department. the office for foreign affairs is very pro-Free software, others are very closed and MSy
<BenB> some use Linux across the board, some MS everywhere.
<ogra> well, thats a joschka inheritance i guess
<BenB> heh, never made that connection.
<TheMuso> Ok, on one machine, my CPU doesn't even break a sweat with rhythmbox/pulseaudio/firefox with no compiz... Time for the notebook test.
<ogra> well it happened after he got in
<BenB> ogra: the tech guys there are very clued, though. one of them is a debian maintainer.
<BenB> ogra: I don't think you can credit Munich with the Greens, though :)
<BenB> eh, other way around
<ogra> heh, no
<ogra> thats ude as lonesome rider rather
<Lightkey> Munich happened thanks to Ede from the reds ;p
<Lightkey> yeah, Ude
<BenB> full name?
<Lightkey> the mayor
<ogra> tha mayor
<Lightkey> haha
<Lightkey> 2d1g
<BenB> that's not a full name :)
 * ogra never can remember the first name
<Lightkey> but easily gooogable
<ogra> SPD at least :)
<BenB> Christian Ude ?
<Lightkey> probably
<ogra> yeah
<BenB> i didn't know the SPD rules Munich?
<ogra> right
<ogra> it does
<Lightkey> it does
<ogra> the socialistic island in bavaria :)
<Lightkey> the only part in bavaria
<ogra> snap
<ogra> :)
<BenB> yeah, already noticed that Munich is so... not like CSU :)
<cjwatson> probably not a surprise for cities to be more left-wing
<cjwatson> compare e.g. Austin, Texas :-0
<cjwatson> :-)
<Lightkey> right
<BenB> cjwatson: heh
<Lightkey> or the blue/red election map ;p
<ffm> What package should I mark as a dependancy of my package if my package needs JML? (bundled with it currently...)
<ffm> Is it a bad idea to bundle software that isn't in the repos with my package? (jogl lib, etc)
<ogra> BenB, btw i eard a lot of the office for foreign affairs stuff was set up by credativ (rumous though)
<ogra> *heard
<ogra> *rumours
<BenB> I don't know credativ.... as far as I know, they did most themselves.
<cjwatson> ffm: generally better to package up dependencies separately if there's any chance that something else might want them
<ffm> cjwatson, unlikely, some of these things are esoteric.
<BenB> they actually contracted me, too.
<ogra> you dont know credativ but are a german debian user ?
<BenB> but only to fix some mozilla bugs.
<cjwatson> ffm: it may well not be a problem to bundle, then
<BenB> ogra: I'm not a debian user.
<ffm> cjwatson, I'd be looking at at least 20 subpackages then...
<ogra> oh, i thought so
<TheMuso> yay, I think I've reproduced this high load with pulse on my notebook. Now to try the new kernel.
<cjwatson> though in the case of C libraries you'll need them to be a separate binary package in case of soname transitions
<cjwatson> ffm: err, too many negatives. "it may well be OK to bundle, then"
<ffm> cjwatson, What if one of them is a package that is in ubuntu, but not of that version?
<cjwatson> then it should be upgraded to the proper version (assuming this is against intrepid)
<cjwatson> the security team tend to get upset by duplication
<ffm> argh....
<ffm> This package is java, and its currently annoying.
<ffm> I think I'll just try something a bit simpler, like a textbook or something.
<ffm> cjwatson, Would it be bad form to package up a MIT-licenced windows app that runs seamlessly under WINE and just have it run under that layer of abstraction?
<jdong> ffm: does it build with wine-dev or is it a binary?
<ffm> jdong, binary iirc. I'll see if I can get the source...
<jdong> ffm: if it's binary then i doubt the archive admins will be very thrilled.
<mjg59> ffm: If we can't build it in Ubuntu, then it's multiverse at best
<ffm> jdong, if I was able to get the source, and it was MIT/GPL?
<jdong> ffm: if it can build on Ubuntu's build servers, then I don't see why the fact that it runs under WINE makes any difference
<mjg59> ffm: The general assumption is that everything in main/universe should be buildable from source using an Ubuntu system
<mjg59> ffm: So, if you can cross-build it against wine, then that's great - but then you could probably also build it against libwine and end up with a native binary
<ffm> WINE isn't in main.
<jdong> it's in universe
<ffm> And I don't see winelib in the repos.
<jdong> if you can build it with wine, it can be in universe too
 * ogra scratches head about debootstrap
<ogra> W: Failure trying to run: chroot /home/ogra/intrepid mount -t proc proc /proc
<ogra> :(
<ffm> jdong, Do all main packages have to be build independent of universe packages?
<jdong> ffm: correct. main must only build against things in main.
<mjg59> ffm: wine-dev
<slangasek> why is main even a concern here?  mingw32 sure isn't in main, either
 * jdong wonders the same
<jdong> ok, Firefox is making me lose my mind.
<ffm> slangasek, I'd like to see this package in main some day (like, intrepid+3 or so) along with a host of educational programming utilities I'm packaging for edubuntu.
<ogra> ffm, oh ?
 * ogra listens up hearing edubuntu
<mjg59> ffm: If there's interesting and well-integrated software that falls into that category, then that's fine - wine can be pulled into main as a build-dependency. But we *must* be able to build it under Ubuntu, not just ship the binaries.
<ffm> mjg59, I understand.
<slangasek> ffm: well, if it's binary-only then that's not going to happen.  If it requires wine as a runtime (either via the wine package or via libwine), then any evaluation of it for main needs to take wine into account anyway.
<ffm> slangasek, Again, I understand.
<mjg59> ffm: That could either be by building it with mingw32 (and ending up with a native Windows binary) or, preferably, building it against libwine
 * ogra found the root cause for his debootstrap breakage :/
<ogra> W: http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/intrepid/main/binary-i386/Packages.bz2 was corrupt
<slangasek> ffm: oh, are you still talking about Alice then?
<ogra> hmm
<slangasek> or something else? Alice at least is available in tarball...
 * sladen doesn't see wine as being much different to a python, perl, or jvm interpreter.
<slangasek> sladen: we don't have any jvm interpreters in main either right now. :-P
<sladen> it's an execution environment that allows execution of programs written is a particular style
<jdong> slangasek: does gij not count?
<ogra> slangasek, huh ?
<slangasek> jdong: no ;)
<cjwatson> ogra: I doubt that'll be persistent, it's probably just a transient mirroring problem
<jdong> sladen: well true, but we don't allow Java bytecode or .pyc files either as "source"
<ogra> cjwatson, yeah, i'll wait, fuse can wait a night as well :)
<jdong> slangasek: lol ;-)
<jdong> slangasek: if you wait long enough, it kinda acts like a JVM
<TheMuso> I've just realized I can't test the new kernel unless I have lum... Which is in binary new...
<sladen> jdong: no, but we do have lots of software written in C that we compile in bytecode for distribution
<bd_> binary new? there's a binary new as well as a source new?
<TheMuso> bd_: Yes.
<sladen> jdong: we actually compile it into several types of bytecode, optimised for running on different types of computers
<bd_> TheMuso: why? o_O
<slangasek> TheMuso: your unfocused IRC comment is important to us.  Please hold for the next available archive admin. ;-)
<sladen> jdong: so as long as this program has 100% source and compiles as a .deb like anything else, I don't see why it'd be a problem
<bd_> TheMuso: and, if it's in binary new, can't you grab the source and build locally then? :)
<TheMuso> slangasek: I know, I was not going to bother any of you, as I have other things to go on with, and I can wait.
<cjwatson> slangasek: does that mean you're dealing with it and I can go to bed? :)
<slangasek> cjwatson: yes. :)
<cjwatson> rock on
<ogra> sleep tight
<TheMuso> bd_: Yes, but a kernel package does take a little while to build, and I'd need a build environment on amd64 set up, which I don't have yet.
<ffm> For a book, what "Type of package: single binary, multiple binary, library, kernel module or cdbs?"
<bd_> TheMuso: PPA :D
<cjwatson> I do love it when the autosync gets to x and fails
<cjwatson> ffm: single binary
<cjwatson> binary there means binary package, not binary executable
<jdong> sladen: I have no problem with something building against libwine-dev and being packaged, just like something building with gcj and being packaged...
<ffm> cjwatson, it isn't to be compiled... (exept from lore sources...)
<infinity> cjwatson: You missed the golden opportunity to say "kernel module" there...
<cjwatson> ffm: binary packages are not necessarily compiled
<jdong> sladen: it just sounded like you were proposing if I build it with visual c++ 7 and tar it up into a binary-wrapper deb it'd be fine
<cjwatson> ffm: that's why I drew the distinction I drew just now
<infinity> ffm: A "binary package" is any package that's not a "source package"... ie: anything ending in ".deb"
<cjwatson> ffm: a binary package is a synonym for a .deb (or a .udeb in the case of the installer)
<cjwatson> snap
<ogra> ffm, that question is about the finally resulting package
<ogra> after you have built it (in some hours o so)
<sladen> jdong: no, you need to make it buildable under Ubuntu on a buildd.  Which might mean first ensuring that the builddeps exist and themselves compile  (eg. mingw32)
<ogra> *or
<jdong> sladen: ok, then we are on the same page :) *whew*
<cjwatson> the only particularly noticeable differences between something that's compiled and something that isn't is that you don't run 'make' in debian/rules, and that you would usually make the latter Architecture: all and do stuff in binary-indep rather than binary-arch
<ffm> ogra, It's a book, it isn't built, it's written.
<cjwatson> ffm: we all know what you mean
<cjwatson> ffm: you are missing the jargon terms we're using, though :-)
<ogra> ffm, it will still need the *package building process* not compiling :)
<cjwatson> a package is built even if there is no code to compile
<cjwatson> (and documentation is in fact often built from source forms like TeX or DocBook XML, even if that isn't the case for you)
<ogra> and the question was about the resulting package that comes out eventually (not matter how)
<ogra> s/not/no/
<ogra> ffm, imagine the package build process like compressing a dir into an archive ... its independent of the fact if the files in the dir get compiled or not
<slangasek> TheMuso: lum accepted
<ogra> s/of/from/
<ffm> ogasawara_, kk.
<ffm> *ogra
<ogra> :)
<bd_> nominatedarchindep is not present in legal_archseries <-- got this in a reject notice from a PPA upload to intrepid, is it a bug or am I doing it wrong?
<ffm> Should my documentation depend on the packages it uses in its text? (It uses python, for example, as it is a python book)
<bd_> it's an arch:all package
<bd_> ffm: Suggests:
<ffm> Oh, this is so much easier than RPM!
 * ffm rejoices.
 * slangasek laughs :)
<bd_> ffm: the new debhelper 7 thing makes it even easier, I hear :)
<ogra> *giggle*
<ffm> Where should the suggests line go? before or after build-requires?
<bd_> ffm: Suggests: goes somewhere in the binary package stanza
<ffm> And what's the difference between suggest and recommend?
<bd_> ffm: Basically, Depends: is an absolute nearly-unbreakable (unless you go to extremes) dependency; Recommends: auto-installs but lets you remove it without too much effory, and Suggests: just adds a line to the UI saying "You might want to install these as well" essentially
<ffm> bd_, Ok. diveintopython (main) uses recommends, so I'll use that too.
<bd_> there's more into in the debian policy document, but the idea is depends are things that are /vital/ for it to work properly, recommends are things that you'll usually want to have installed in all but unusual circumstances, and suggests: just enhances the package in some way but is far from required
<ffm> bd_, Well, what's the use of a python manual w/o python?
<bd_> selecting what goes into recommends and what goes into suggests does require a bit of a judgement call... :)
<slangasek> ffm: you can read a python manual on a machine without a python interpreter
<bd_> ffm: You might be using python on a remote machine... but I guess if you have to stretch to imagine such a situation then recommends is right :)
<bd_> I suppose I should possibly ask about that message in #launchpad
<slangasek> but this fits the definition of "Recommends", which is that in the /usual/ case you would want python installed
<ffm> slangasek, in which case you remove python.
<slangasek> ffm: er, yes.  You asked "what's the use of it", I was responding to that
<ffm> What's "${shlibs:Depends}, ${misc:Depends}" mean?
<bd_> ffm: it's part of the automatic shared libraries dependency thing. It's not needed in your case, but doesn't hurt either. I'd leave in misc:Depends as some debhelper scripts can add things to it, and I don't know which offhand :)
<bd_> actually I'd just leave in both, it doesn't hurt
<ogra> ffm, if you would compils stuff it would automatically add libs the binary depends on
<ogra> (for ${shlibs:Depends})
<ffm> In "Depends: " and releated stanzas, do you use whitespace or commas to deliminate?
<bd_> ffm: commas
<ogra> oh, sweet, l-u-m already has the fix for bug 224754
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 224754 in linux-ubuntu-modules-2.6.24 "BUG ON crash probably due to unionfs when installing sudo update with dpkg" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/224754
<ogra> funny, someone just invited ubuntu-usuers@lists,ubuntu.com to linkedin
<BenB> it will have many friends, eh, connections
<ogra> hehe
 * ogra thinks 3:30 is a good time to close the lid ...
<BenB> ogra: night!
<ogra> night :)
<ogra> get some sleep as well ;)
<BenB> heh, yes. thanks :)
 * BenB goes
<ffm> Hey, I'm having issues signing my package.
<ffm> I get "gpg: skipped "ffm__ <ffm@cluenet.org>": secret key not available", but my key has a comment "Package Signature" on the end. How do I spesifiy that in the changelog?
<StevenK> ffm__ (Package Signature) <ffm@cluenet.org>
<ffm> StevenK, Ok, then.
<ffm> Hm...
<ffm> for some reason my package doesn't include any actual files...
<ffm> *content files
<LaserJock> that would be a problem :-)
<jdong> LaserJock: well sometimes I wish that to be the case with certain packages....
<jdong> LaserJock: like emacs for instance.
<LaserJock> boooo
<jdong> :P
<ffm> LaserJock, Yeah, it's an issue.
<ffm> No idea why that's happening, it's odd..
<LaserJock> I'd guess you aren't installing files to the right place
<ffm> #ubuntu+1 redirects to ubuntu.
<ffm> Now that intrepid is open, shouldn-t it be its own channel again?
<wgrant> ffm: I think Intrepid is radioactive enough to not be suitable for users.
 * bd_ quitely slips intrepid into his sources.list
<ffm> wgrant, Darn, I was planning on upgrading my grandmother yesterday. You mean it isn't for production use? Bah!
 * bd_ still has battle scars from the debian C++ transition in unstable, mind. Was that before aptitude's resolver was in place? :)
<ffm> Where in my debian package do I spesify where I want files to be installed?
<YokoZar> Anyone else seriously regretting pulseaudio?
<TheMuso> YokoZar: Yes, I am, only because its an LTS, but the decision was made before I got involved at a greater level.
<jdong> YokoZar: it's been interesting to see how we can't win em all with regards to Pulse
<jdong> YokoZar: when FC8 came out, Ubuntu started getting harsh criticism for not being faster with adopting pulseaudio to address the limitations of ALSA, etc
<jdong> yet when we did it finally in Hardy, the criticism instantly reversed
<jdong> I think a lot of the pulse headaches I'm having now are due to scheduler issues. the CFS config that ships with hardy is simply awful IMO
<LaserJock> jdong: well obviously we're supposed to have a perfect implementation of PA
<StevenK> jdong: So the CFS isn't completly fair? :-P
<jdong> StevenK: oh it's fair. To OS X and ?
<jdong> Windows.
<jdong> users' jealousies of Linux's previously-good interactivity
<jdong> compiling causes compiz performance to lag now, games are unplayable with music in the background
<jdong> *grumble*
<pwnguin> someone else was claiming that they were having terrible performance problems as well
<pwnguin> i wonder if they'll find debian in the same place
<jdong> pwnguin: apparently an upcoming -proposed kernel is to "fix" this.
<ScottK> jdong: I got my Intrepid pbuilder set up.
<jdong> lol gettin a head start
<ScottK> I needed to test the new deboostrap before asking for a backport.
<ScottK> jdong: deboostrap is requested now.
<TheMuso> jdong: A few of Pulse's problems is that it addresses sound cards directly, and not all sound cards have the same mixer channel names.
<TheMuso> Hell even jack has code for specific sound cards, to handle their different quirks.
<jdong> TheMuso: I see
<jdong> TheMuso: my major problems with pulse have been primarily with responsiveness and concurrent sounds from legacy (i.e. alsa) apps
 * TheMuso nods.
<jdong> TheMuso: responsiveness being the current major headache
<jdong> for some reason Hardy's kernel seems to really suck at interactivity
<TheMuso> jdong: crimsun and I are trying to work a solution that sees pulse go through dmix, at least for hardy.
<jdong> TheMuso: I look forward to that
<jdong> TheMuso: personally I think pulse is a good investment for Ubuntu but I'm not too happy about the way it finalized in Hardy
<TheMuso> I msut admit, I turn pulse off, unless I want to send audi oover the network.
<TheMuso> must
<TheMuso> jdong: As I said earlier, I think I would be fine with it, but for an LTS.
<mortal1> hello, I have a question regarding the partman crypto in hardy.  does the current alternate installer disk allow existing partitions to be accessed?
<jdong> TheMuso: I'll hold off my criticism for a chance to SRU the major issues with it :)
<TheMuso> mortal1: I don't think so.
<mortal1> given that debain's todo list for the installer states: partman-crypto: Allow a user to re-use an existing encrypted filesystem without data loss (ex: /home, /srv, etc) [BenjaminSeidenberg]
<TheMuso> jdong: As I said, I would rather we not be using it at all.
<TheMuso> But we can't turn back now.
<mortal1> TheMuso: if they do get that in the next version of the installer, does that mean that the next version of ubuntu will be able to use partitions created in 8.04?
<TheMuso> mortal1: Yes I would think so.
<mortal1> TheMuso: at any rate, simply doing an upgrade would not break my ability to access those partitions would it?
<TheMuso> mortal1: I wouldn't think so, but I don't use encrypted partitions for any length of time to comment.
<Mithrandir> mortal1: I have used the same encrypted volumes on my laptop since I created them back in 2005 or so.
<mortal1> Mithrandir: really?  How do you go about setting up ubuntu to access them?
<mortal1> is there a guide that you use?
<mortal1> I'll bbl but i'm interested the process you use.  I'll check back later
<Mithrandir> mortal1: I mount them when I log in by using libpam-mount
<Mithrandir> search for cryptsetup and libpam-mount and you'll probably find something.
<mortal1> thanks
<mortal1> good night all
<tkamppeter> doko, hi
<doko> tkamppeter: good morning
<tkamppeter> doko, is pitti on vacation?
<doko> tkamppeter: I think so, long weekend
<tkamppeter> doko, can you then upload s-c-p for me (see mail).
<tkamppeter> (for me getting core-dev seems that only one vote is missing ...)
<doko> tkamppeter: will do (but I'm not allowed to vote, afaics)
<tkamppeter> doko, thanks, I know that you cannot vote, but perhaps someone else here on IRC.
<hunger> What is that devscripts update in hardy? It pulls in 40 new packages at my system. Is that really necessary?
<bd_> hunger: it has some bad recommends I expect, same as in debian
<hunger> bd_: That is the very first update to a LTS release... a great start:-(
<bd_> hunger: it's a backport actually
<bd_> +devscripts (2.10.23) unstable; urgency=low
<bd_> +
<bd_> +  * Move the current Suggests: to Recommends: so that they are pulled in by
<bd_> +    default but may be removed if desired (Closes: #474559)
<hunger> bd_: Not a good idea to have a update/backport install a smtp daemon... even if it is just the nullmailer.
<bd_> hunger: I would suggest filing a bug in intrepid and hardy asking for whatever recommends are causing problems (aptitude why -v devscripts bad-package to see where it's coming from)
<bd_> and in the meantime, use aptitude -R install devscripts to skip recommends
<wgrant> hunger: It's a backport.
<wgrant> Backports aren't allowed to eat your hat, but they can eat disk space if they want.
<hunger> wgrant: Installing a SMTP daemon where non was required before is eating my hat.
<hunger> wgrant: And update/backport does not make too much of a difference to a end user anyway.
<bd_> nullmailer isn't a daemon, it's an implementation of /usr/sbin/sendmail
<wgrant> hunger: backports aren't enabled by default.
<bd_> there's a difference, sort of
<wgrant> And you should be watching what it wants to install.
<bd_> but yes, file a bug, mention specific recommendations you'd like removed
<bd_> and maybe file it in debian as well, they're not to happy about this either
<wgrant> .... or just don't install the recommendations.
<bd_> wgrant: or both file a bug, /and/ don't install the recommendations :)
<bd_> that way it gets fixed for everyone :)
<wgrant> FSVO of fixed.
<bd_> downgraded to Suggests: I mean
<bd_> I mean, some recommends are sensible - curl | wget - but is www-browser really needed, for example?
<cjwatson> each one of those recommends has a justification in the package description, and is because one of the tools in devscripts won't work without it
<cjwatson> (or won't work in some particular mode)
<cjwatson> there's no need to complain about www-browser, though; w3m provides www-browser and is in ubuntu-standard
<hunger> cjwatson: I don't mind the additional libs, but installing a mailer is a bit extravagant for a recommend. Ubuntu keapt priding itself for not needing one a while.
<cjwatson> it's not a real mailer; see what you were told above
<hunger> cjwatson: Ah, so it is fine to have nullmailer? Please install it by default then and don't make it get dragged in by one of the very first backports.
<cjwatson> sigh, stop making a mountain out of a molehill, it's intrepid
<cjwatson> (if you're using hardy-backports, that might as well be intrepid ...)
<cjwatson> I'll downgrade it to a suggests
<hunger> cjwatson: Oh, I had not realized that -backports count as origversion+1.
<hunger> I'll better deactivate them then.
<cjwatson> but, for the record, any "pride" there may have been (and it really wasn't pride) was in not installing an MTA *in the default installation*. devscripts is not in the default installation
<wgrant> And devscripts isn't a normal user package...
<cjwatson> actually, I'm not sure this is a reasonable thing to change at all
<cjwatson> if you're installing devscripts then something like a trivial MTA should not be a problem
<hunger> cjwatson: I'm not sure either. Not having a mailer will break all the tools that rely on it and that tend to be a couple in debian.
<cjwatson> it's hardly just Debian, the ability to send mail is a useful facility
 * hunger thinks there should be a mailer in the default install, but that does not matter.
<cjwatson> there are tools in ubuntu-dev-tools that rely on a mailer
<cjwatson> so, on reflection, I think devscripts should stay as it is
<bd_> There probably should be a mailer in the default install - but a local-only mailer which delivers mail to root to some user-visible GUI thingy.
<bd_> So if some cron job breaks, the user would know about it (is cron in the default install...?)
<wgrant> bd_: I'm not sure users care if updatedb fails.
<bd_> I suppose you have a point :)
<tkamppeter> doko, can you also upload HPLIP 2.8.4 for me (see mail)?
<emgent> hello
 * ogra scratches his head about http://paste.ubuntu.com/9450/
<ogra> since when do packages not restore files anymore if i reinstall them ?
<james_w> ogra: they are conffiles?
<ogra> well, if i wipe the whole /etc/pulse dir they should re appear, no ? at least that worked in gutsy
<james_w> I'm not sure, but I assume that would have something to do with it.  If you purge the package first does it work?
<ogra> lets see
<ogra> james_w, thanks, that was it, i'm apparently not awake enough yet :P
<james_w> it's only lunchtime, you shouldn't be expected to be :-)
<ogra> heh
<ogra> well, i was up until 5
<cjwatson> ogra: conffiles only get restored if you use dpkg --force-confmiss
<cjwatson> it's always been like that
<ogra> yeah, i didnt think about conffiles at all :)
<tkamppeter> doko, I have now also prepared new foo2zjs packages. Can you upload them, too (see your mail)? Thanks.
<doko> tkamppeter: I did see these are all intrepid uploads? it's not yet open
<tkamppeter> doko, and why does the subject of this IRC say "Archive: Intrepid open, go wild!"?
<cjwatson> intrepid is open
<tkamppeter> If this is not correct please someone change it to yesterday's state.
<cjwatson> I meant to send mail about it yesterday but forgot
<davmor2> Help please.  I'm having hardware issues in hardy and I'm trying to track down what is causing it exactly.  My dvd-rw and cd-rom lock up and become unusable.  This also causes elements of the system to lock up also.  I believe I am lowering it down slowly but just need some help to nail it completely.  I believe it to be either a driver issue or the kernel.  I have tried 32bit and 64bit to rule out it being a 64bit is
<\sh> cjwatson, any ways to fix debootstrap intrepid for W: Failure trying to run: chroot /tmp/schroot-H11754 mount -t proc proc /proc ?? :)
<\sh> cjwatson, means intrepids debootstrap running on hardy? :)
<cjwatson> it's a bug, either fix it or wait for somebody else to fix it
<cjwatson> effort for supporting people on intrepid is a bit low right now
<\sh> cjwatson, it's more "getting build infra ready for working on intrepid" ;)
<\sh> cjwatson, working on hardy that is
<cjwatson> if you want to help, investigate it
<\sh> shermann@hom-emt64-l:~$ sudo  chroot /tmp/schroot-H11754 mount -t proc proc /proc
<\sh> chroot: cannot run command `mount': Exec format error
<cjwatson> that's not an investigation
<cjwatson> debootstrap leaves log files
<\sh> cjwatson, I'm on it :)
<\sh> cjwatson, but logfile inside the mentioned chroot tells the same error only...joy ;)
<ScottK> pitti: If you have a moment, I wanted to discuss copying clamav from dapper-backports to dapper-updates/security again.  jdstrand has endorsed the idea in Bug #217256.  In hardy we had zero problems going from 0.92 to 0.92.1 and there have been no reported problems with the dapper-backport.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 217256 in clamav "ClamAV Upack Processing Buffer Overflow Vulnerability" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/217256
<ScottK> That'd be one less clamav variant we don't have enough time to figure patches for.
<cjwatson> \sh: 'sudo debootstrap intrepid /chroot/intrepid' works for me
<\sh> cjwatson, yes...sudo debootstreap hardy hardy_chroot <-- works , sudo debootstrap --arch=amd64 hardy hardy2_chroot <- doesn't work.
<\sh> cjwatson, whereas sudo debootstrap --arch=i386 hardy hardy3_chroot works again ;)
<\sh> cjwatson, and sudo debootstrap --arch=amd64 intrepid intrepid_chroot doesn't work...(all done on amd64 arch box)
<cjwatson> if it's really amd64, --arch=amd64 is the default
<cjwatson> I suspect you are running a 32-bit kernel despite the system's hardware capabilities
<\sh> cjwatson, nope
<cjwatson> well, that's what the message indicates
<\sh> fck the hell
<cjwatson> or you're in linux32
<Mithrandir> \sh: what does uname -a say?
<\sh> I installed amd64 hardy on that box
<\sh> at least I thought so...
 * \sh kills his wife tonight
<\sh> if on the cd amd64 is written, but the contents is i386 ... what do I have installed...
<\sh> i hate my life i hate my life
<geser> a 48-bit Ubuntu? :)
<\sh> yes
<\sh> she mixed up my media
 * \sh grabs his grave...and says I'm sorry for messing up my life ,->
<geser> \sh: check now the i386 cd if it contains amd64
<\sh> yes
<\sh> it sounds like a joke...but it isn't really...
 * \sh is offline now...at least dettaching from ircproxy...and reinstalls....
<ogra> asac, FF3 caching and wiki editing dont seems to actually like each other, i seem to have to shift-ctrl-R every page to see the edits afterwards
<asac_> ogra: cannot really confirm this. for me it worked last time i used the wiki
<ogra> asac_, generally if i have the notice at the top after editing it looks ok, as soon as i click on "remove message" i get the old content
<ogra> and have to force reload
<ogra> which then is ok as well ...
<asac_> ogra: never used the wiki that way :)
<asac_> ogra: did it ever work?
<ogra> huh ?
<ogra> i mean the grey box you get at the top after every edit
<ogra> s/edit/save/
<guja_nebeska> I want to be Ubuntu developer. I am relativly beginner, and I am asking from You to give me some advice and literature to read and learn Ubuntu so I can develop that OS.
<guja_nebeska> I am C and C++ programmer, but don't know as much about Ubuntu as programming.
<guja_nebeska> So, please, give me some ebook adivces, books, links, anything.
<guja_nebeska> I'd be very grateful for any kind of help.
<guja_nebeska> Thank You.
<tkamppeter> doko, I will replace the foo2zjs packages, forgot to switch from "hardy" to "intrepid" in the changelog.
<Amaranth> guja_nebeska: The folks in #ubuntu-motu can put you to work, I'm sure. :)
<james_w> guja_nebeska: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/GettingStarted is a good place to start
<guja_nebeska> james_w, Amaranth thank you for interesting in my question. I can't start fixing bugs or stuff like that, cus I am not familiar too much with system.
<guja_nebeska> I need to spend hours and hours of reading about Ubuntu, kernel, distros and stuff to understand what am I fixing.
<guja_nebeska> I need for start good literature based on that themes.
<tkamppeter> doko, I have replaced the foo2zjs packages now, can you download them again from my site and upload this version? Thanks.
<tkamppeter> doko, is syetm-config-printer OK?
<guja_nebeska> But I'll ask same question on ubuntu-motu, thanks for the advice.
<bimberi> win 21
<gnomefreak> bin/win :)
<gnomefreak> oops
<gnomefreak> bimberi: /win
<gnomefreak> ;)
<bimberi> heh :)
 * Rabiddog slaps the ubuntu devs
<cjwatson> thanks, that's nice of you
<Rabiddog> cjwatson: they broke software raid again in the final release of hardy
<cjwatson> the bug tracker is -> that way ... can you refer to a bug report?
<cjwatson> "broke" is awfully general
<Rabiddog> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/dmraid/+bug/102973
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 102973 in dmraid "dmraid looking for raid45 when kernel uses raid456" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<cjwatson> that's not software RAID in general, that's SATA RAID
<Rabiddog> jorgen (author of kanotix) provided all the fixes too :)
<Rabiddog> cjwatson: worse case scenario is I have build the kernel myself properly with the patches in it I guess. so much for a Long Term Edition for servers
<jdong> nobody in their right mind uses dmraid on servers.
<cjwatson> *cough* servers don't use SATA RAID as a general rule
<Rabiddog> home servers do
<jdong> they shouldn't.
<Rabiddog> jdong: whats the alternative?
<jdong> Rabiddog: linux md raid?
<Rabiddog> jdong: I'm just a home server noob, all I want is for it to work
<cjwatson> anyway, this is rather beside the point; a simple patch to the dmraid package to use raid456 etc. instead of raid4 etc. would likely be acceptable for 8.04.1
<persia> Err.  Nothing wrong with SATA raid, except when not using a proper RAID microcontroller to abstract it from the system.
<Rabiddog> cjwatson, ah
<cjwatson> the "fixes" suggested are to stick symlinks in /lib/modules/, which isn't so great
<Rabiddog> I c
<jdong> Rabiddog: yeah I didn't see a proposed patch that's really a fix on the bug
<jdong> Rabiddog: though regardless of what I feel about dmraid, this bug can and should still be fixed for Hardy
<cjwatson> that said, I don't see where the dmraid package actually modprobes raid4 etc.,
<Rabiddog> hmmm
<cjwatson> it mentions raid45 as a dm-target id
<Rabiddog> I'm using www.kanotix.com/files/gutsy/updates/dmraid/ to try getting it to work
<Rabiddog> ponders
<Rabiddog> we had to implement a delay during startup also to give it time to be ready
<cjwatson> is it just a matter of loading dm-raid4-5 in the initramfs?
 * ogra rubs his cheek
<ogra> Rabiddog, ouch !
<Rabiddog> cjwatson: not sure
<Rabiddog> checking something
<Rabiddog> dmraid -ay says raid45 not in kernel, dmraid -r shows all 3 raid drives
<Rabiddog> cjwatson: how would I make sure what u said happens?
<Rabiddog> ogra: o_O
<Rabiddog> I'd like to using the ubuntu original kernel tomake upgrading easier
 * ogra wonders if Rabiddog would in real life come into a room and slap 200 ppl of which 98% never have seen the package he complains about ....
<cjwatson> Rabiddog: add 'modprobe -Q dm-raid4-5' after the other modprobes in /usr/share/initramfs-tools/scripts/local-top/dmraid, run 'sudo update-initramfs -u', reboot
<cjwatson> I really am just guessing
<Hobbsee> ogra: no.  they'd kill him first, CoC or not.
<Hobbsee> ogra: or at least knock him out.
<Hobbsee> ogra: so he'd only get to for the first few, before being comatose.
<Hobbsee> s/for//
<cjwatson> easy
<ogra> Hobbsee, come on
<Hobbsee> ogra: :)
<ogra> Hobbsee, while i think an aplology would be nice (especially since he gets help here) i didnt intend to put up any agression or flaming with that
<Hobbsee> ogra: i think i've missed the relevance between your statement and mine.  but it's probably too late at night.  mine was saying what would happen, if he did so in real life.
<Hobbsee> (unsure how that's agression or flaming - isn't that simply saying what would happen?)
<ScottK> cjwatson: Thanks for the latest devscripts upload.  It's always nice when the response to a bug report is Fix Released.
<ogra> in the hypothetical case that someone would do that in RL, probably ...
<ogra> Hobbsee, you take my pictures to seriously sometimes
<Hobbsee> ogra: i knew it was hypothetical.  i didn't realise it was a hypothetical, not-intended-to-be-responded-to, picture.
<ogra> i'll put a tag on it next time :)
<Rabiddog> ogra: its was friendly slap of frustration that it got broken :)
<ogra> Rabiddog, well lets just drop the topic ... doesnt seem to go anywhere ...
<Rabiddog> sorry u misunderstood it :)
<ogra> :)
 * Rabiddog lightbulb goes on and looks at cjwatson
<Rabiddog> I recall seeing something about /usr/share/initramfs-tools/scripts/local-top/dmraid not being just before shell login come sup
<Rabiddog> comes up*
<cjwatson> not being what?
<Rabiddog> wonder if that script is missing
<Rabiddog> found
<Rabiddog> gimme a sec, I'll see if I can get the exact wording
<pitti> Caesar: 225333> sure, I updated the bug; thanks
<pitti> tkamppeter: I'm on vac, yesterday and today
<cjwatson> that would be odd, it shouldn't be referring to the /usr/share/initramfs-tools/... path, should be just /scripts/local-top/dmraid in the initramfs
<pitti> ScottK: clamav> that sounds sensible to me; so the current dapper-backports variant is good/should be copied, or the one you'll upload with that bug?
<ScottK> pitti: Current one should be copied.
<ScottK> pitti: The current one in dapper-backports already has that bug fixed.
<pitti> ScottK: that's just the clamav source package, or some other sources, too?
<ScottK> pitti: Just clamav.  No rdepends changes needed on this one.
<pitti> ScottK: You have a wealth of experience with clamav, so your word is good enough for me :)
<pitti> ScottK: ok, say the word, and I'll copy it :)
<pitti> ScottK: do I need to change any bug after doing so? or will you do so?
<pitti> ScottK: hmm; backports has 0.92.1~dfsg2-1.1~dapper1, -updates has 0.92~dfsg-2~dapper1ubuntu0.1
<ScottK> pitti: Yes.  The ubuntu0.1 changes were all incorporated upstream in 0.92.1
<pitti> ScottK: it isn't quite the huge version jump I anticipated? I faintly remember doing that copying some weeks/months ago already?
<ScottK> Yes.
<ScottK> This is to resync.
<pitti> ok, done
<ScottK> pitti: We have 0.92.1 in feisty and gutsy backports as of this week.  I want to age those a bit there and then do the same thing (with all the needed rdepends).
<ScottK> pitti: Thanks.
<pitti> ScottK: shall I remove the version from dapper-backports then? it's in -updates now
<ScottK> pitti: Yes.  I think that's sensible.
<pitti> ScottK: done
<ScottK> pitti: So once we copy feisty/gutsy backports to updates maybe next week, all the supported releases will be on the same version.
<pitti> ScottK: please let me know if there are any problems; I'll go offline again in a bit (on holiday today)
<Rabiddog> cjwatson: /scripts/local-top/dmraid: /scripts/local-top/: 18: udevsettle not found is the error
<pitti> ScottK: cool!
<ScottK> pitti: Thanks (particularly on your holiday).
<ScottK> pitti: Will do.
<ScottK> pitti: Of course clamav 0.93 is sitting in Debian New just now and it breaks everything, so we'll get to do this again in a few months. ;-)
<pitti> heh
<ScottK> All the libclamav-dev rdpends FTBFS againsta 0.93 and need patching.
<ScottK> againsta/against
<davmor2> Why would nvidia drivers break a cd-rom and dvd-rw ?
<cjwatson> Rabiddog: odd? that's udevadm settle in the current code
<cjwatson> dmraid (1.0.0.rc13-2ubuntu6) hardy; urgency=low
<cjwatson>   * debian/dmraid.initramfs-local: call udevadm instead of udevsettle
<cjwatson>  -- Scott James Remnant <scott@ubuntu.com>  Fri, 14 Dec 2007 16:13:57 +0000
<Keybuk> missing update-initramfs ?
<cjwatson> Rabiddog: confirm that you ran 'sudo update-initramfs -u' and haven't done anything odd so that you might not be running the current initramfs?
<Rabiddog> cjwatson I forgot I installed a older dmraid, so I just updated and am in the process of doing what u said
<Rabiddog> cjwatson: ERROR: device-mapper target type "raid45" not in kernel
<cjwatson> Rabiddog: having made the change to /usr/share/initramfs-tools/scripts/local-top/dmraid that I suggested, before running update-initramfs?
<Rabiddog> yes
<cjwatson> ok
<Rabiddog> modprobe -Q dm-raid4-5 added
<Rabiddog> after the other modprobes
<Rabiddog> waits to see if cjwatson has other suggestions :)
<cjwatson> I'm on the phone, so bear with me
<Rabiddog> np I've got plenty of time
<Rabiddog> AFK 5 mins or so
<Rabiddog> brb
<Rabiddog> back
<Rabiddog> ponders
<hwilde> anybody claim to be the authority on partition tables?   :)
<Rabiddog> no
<hwilde> I am getting conflicting output from df -ha,  fdisk -l, and cfdisk
<hwilde> http://pastebin.com/m43ca3380
 * Rabiddog wonders about cjwatson phone call :)
<hwilde> cfdisk says:      sda1        Boot        Primary   Linux ext3       [Ubuntu]         1498.75 (MB)
<hwilde> df -ha says:  /dev/sda1             3.9G  561M  3.2G  15% /media/Ubuntu
<hwilde> so why in the world would df -ha return the wrong partition size
<sistpoty> hm... has anyone seen my upoad of xmms-crossfade from a few hours ago? didn't get an accepted mail :/
<ogra> sistpoty, intrepid ?
<sistpoty> ogra: yes
<ogra> i think there was something up with soyuz, ask in the channel
<sistpoty> ogra: ah, #soyuz?
<ogra> i think so
<ogra> bug 225642 iirc
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 225642 in malone "permission denied for relation teammembership" [Critical,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/225642
<sistpoty> hm.. #soyuz is empty apart from chanserv... I'll try #launchpad
<sistpoty> thanks ogra
<StFS> Hello. I'm having some trouble with my firewire web camera. What I need to solve is being able to run viewer apps as a regular user, however, changing the udev permission scripts has no effect and further investigation shows that udev isn't even getting notified when I plug in my firewire camera... can anybody comment on this?
<Rabiddog> cjwatson: Are you still on the phone?
<Rabiddog> Does someone know how to overcome the following error "ERROR: device-mapper target type "raid45" not in kernel"
<james_w> Rabiddog: this is in the installer?
<Rabiddog> no its a result of a hdd install upgrade, I had a previous kernl I compiled
<Rabiddog> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/220493 <---think i found the reason
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 220493 in linux "[Hardy][Regression] dmraid45 target missing in latest kernel" [Undecided,New]
<Rabiddog> gonna see if I can get the older kernel from the repositories
<Rabiddog> 2.6.24-12
<Rabiddog> errr
<ogra> did you talk to any kernel guys ? did you check the changelog of the linux kernel ?
<Rabiddog> ogra..... ubuntu kernel guys?
<ogra> s/linux kernel/linux package/
<ogra> yes, they have a channel
<Rabiddog> do you know the name offhand?
<Rabiddog> nm found ity
<cjwatson> Rabiddog: the kernel guys were talking about 220493 just earlier today, so I think it may be on their list
<cjwatson> Rabiddog: (it turned out that I had to leave immediately after my phone call)
<Rabiddog> np talking to stefan bader right now, he might have something for me to test
<StFS> sorry for repeating the question but does anyone have any idea how I should change the permission for the firewire system, I'm trying to view the capture from my firewire webcam but I'm only able to do so as root and udev doesn't seem to be getting any events when I plug it in so changing stuff there doesn't seem to help
<slytherin> cjwatson: can you please take a look at bug 199116 and approve it for SRU? Ihave discussed it with seb128 and he said it was ok to introduce additional strings and get them translated before 8.04.1.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 199116 in vinagre "Can not send 'Ctrl+Alt+Del'" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/199116
<cjwatson> not today, I'm afraid
<slytherin> cjwatson: Ok. No issue. Whenever you get time.
<slytherin> StFS: how are you trying to capture images?
<crimsun> ogra: Luke mentioned a sample caching bug when using my config changes (in current PulseAudio bzr).  If you have resources, do you mind testing the config on LTSP/Edubuntu 8.04, please?
<StFS> slytherin: well that's not really the problem... I have an application that just displays the video from the camera on screen (I've used both coriander and a little example app that comes with the dc1394 library)
<StFS> slytherin: but the problem is that both of them only work if I run them as root... if I run them as a regular user I get "no cameras found" or "permission denied"
<ogra> crimsun, how urgent is that ? i could probably put some hozrs in on the weekend
<ogra> *hours
<crimsun> ogra: low to wishlist
<ogra> oki, so knowing it by monday should suffice ?
<slytherin> StFS: The problme may be the permission for the device node that gets created. I can't provide much help, Idon't have firewire webcam. You should ask on #ubuntu
<crimsun> ogra: that would be great!
<ogra> will do then :)
<crimsun> ogra: awesome, thanks
<ogra> thanks for pinging :)
<StFS> slytherin: so basically I'm trying to figure out what it is exactly that creates the /dev/video1394 node so I can make that something create the node using different permissions
<jdong> StFS: udev creates those
<jdong> specifically /etc/udev/rules.d
<StFS> jdong: ok... so it must do so then during bootup I'm guessing... because udev isn't getting any event notification when I plug in the camera
<jdong> StFS: udev doesn't know about you plugging in the camera? :-/
<StFS> jdong: nope... udevmonitor doesn't display anything when I plug in the camera
<StFS> jdong: all I get are two lines in syslog
<StFS> jdong: http://pastebin.com/daf1208a
<StFS> jdong: and I've tried this on two different computers
<slytherin> StFS: is there any device /dev/video0 (or video1)?
<crimsun> also, udevsettle(8).
<StFS> slytherin: just /dev/video1394/0
<crimsun> what're the permissions on /dev/video1394/0?
<StFS> slytherin: but unplugging the camera does not delete the /0
<StFS> crimsun: crw-rw-rw- 1 root video
<crimsun> StFS: err, a fresh boot?
<StFS> crimsun: that's my next attempt
<StFS> crimsun: so you suggest changing the /etc/udev/rules.d/40-permissions.rules file first and adding a MODE="0666" to the line with the video1394* stuff
<StFS> ?
<crimsun> StFS: no, I'm trying to see what you get at a fresh plug on a fresh boot
<StFS> crimsun: ok... so leave the permission file, unplug the camera and reboot right?
<crimsun> meaning, if it works after you chmod it, then it's worth chasing the MODE [if it's in fact correct - my reading of 40-permissions.rules leads me to believe you could need raw access, but I don't know your hardware]
<crimsun> right, and it's probably best that we do this in #ubuntu
<StFS> ok... will do...
<StFS> thanks for everyones help
<Keybuk> err
<Keybuk> what's that program that let's you monitor HAL ?
<Keybuk> ah, lshal
 * Keybuk was looking for halinfo for some reason
<Rabiddog> cjwatson: fyi fixed ERROR: device-mapper target type "raid45" not in kernel still occurs but https://launchpad.net/~stefan-bader-canonical/+archive has the fix in the package update to linux-ubuntu modules, just add those sources and upgrade
<Rabiddog> Despite that error dmsetup tables and targets shows raid45 and the array loads up fine and mounts
<Rabiddog> now to fix my video setting issue :)
<Keybuk> AHA!!!!!!
<Rabiddog> o_O?
 * Rabiddog watches the lightbulb shine
<Keybuk> Having purged everything Till ever added to make printing work ... my printer now works again
<jcastro> Anyone seen xivulon? He's due for an openweek session in 5 minutes
<Rabiddog> Keybuk: thats another issue, gutsy worked intermittantly with my printer I'm hoping hardy has a better time
<james_w> jcastro: he apparently quit IRC just over an hour ago.
<jcastro> hmph
<jcastro> james_w: whoops, I meant an hour and 5 minutes
<Caesar> pitti: please let me know if you need anything further for #225333
<cjwatson> Rabiddog: great, glad to hear
<Rabiddog> ty
<jdstrand> cjwatson: hi!
<jdstrand> cjwatson: so I was just looking at kirkland's ubuntu-virt package. lintian and some advice you gave are at odds, and I want to be sure to give the right advice in the future
<jdstrand> E: ubuntu-virt source: debian-rules-missing-required-target binary-indep
<cjwatson> jdstrand: oh, I didn't say to remove the target entirely
<cjwatson> it should be there, but do nothing
<kirkland> cjwatson: ahh....  sorry :-)
<jdstrand> cjwatson: ok, that is what I thought
 * kirkland took "remove binary-indep contents if you aren't using it" wrong....  emphasis on __contents__  ;-)
<jdstrand> cjwatson: thanks
<PeterFA> Who's in charge of the Canadian Repositories servers?
<PeterFA> I would like to report a problem.
<cjwatson> ca.archive.ubuntu.com is an alias for mirror.csclub.uwaterloo.ca.
<cjwatson> looks like the UWaterloo computer club
<cjwatson> PeterFA: what's the problem, though?
<PeterFA> cjwatson, well, I'm not really sure, but I was using the repositories and was running into problem installing, downloading, and fetching headers. These problems instantly stopped when I switched to the Main Servers.
<PeterFA> Since, I've had absolutely no problem.
<james_w> PeterFA: perhaps #ubuntu-mirrors will have some more information.
<lamont> hrm.. why is it that the gusty version of jpilot can import a large address list on hardy, but the hardy version can;t, and the sid version cant?
<lamont> one more thing for my debugging pile, I guess
<oliver_1> hello
<oliver_1> is apport not enabled on the hardy live cd?
<cjwatson> oliver_1: we tend to turn it off for release to avoid being flooded
<cjwatson> and enable it during development cycles
<cjwatson> it's not a perfect scheme by any means, but that's what we've settled on
<oliver_1> cjwatson: sounds reasonable :-)
<oliver_1> is there a way to enable it manually in a LiveCD session? I promise to check LP before submitting a bug...
 * Rabiddog searche launch pad for a ui windows bug where when u mouse over the top bar with the minimize and maximize and close window button it dissapears with just a outline of its borders
<_MMA_> Rabiddog: While using Compiz?
<cjwatson> oliver_1: edit /etc/default/apport as root, set enabled=1, 'sudo /etc/init.d/apport start'
<oliver_1> cjwatson: cool, thanks!
<infinity> Wow, would you look at that, intrepid builds base livefs images.
<cjwatson> some kind of miracle
<infinity> cjwatson: BTW, I've moved lpia/intrepid-live to concordia, though it's still using the ubuntu-lpia project name for now.
<infinity> cjwatson: Will require some mangling of livecd-rootfs to make it DTRT with just "ubuntu", which I might do nowish.
<cjwatson> infinity: thanks, I'll adjust cdimage
<cjwatson> infinity: is hardy still on terranova?
<infinity> cjwatson: In fact, yeah, I will do that now and upload, so make antimony believe that concordia is a "normal" livefs builder for lpia, and I'll make that assumption true. :)
<infinity> cjwatson: hardy will remain on terranova as ubuntu-lpia, should we need to manually trigger hardy builds at some point.
<infinity> cjwatson: Though, since we don't release lpia images, I can't see why we'd need to rebuild them.
<infinity> cjwatson: I can move hardy, if that's problematic.
<cjwatson> I believe that the mobile project has this little release thing coming up ...
<cjwatson> infinity: oh, hang on, is the mobile-fs stuff staying where it is?
<infinity> cjwatson: Oh, are they doing live images too?  Not just moblin builds?
<cjwatson> I have no idea :)
<cjwatson> leaving hardy where it is is fine, and probably preferable
<infinity> cjwatson: Yeah, I will move the moblin stuff, but not today.  I'm just talking about livefs for now, which I believe they only use for in-house testing.
<Rabiddog> _MMA_, yes
<cjwatson> probably right
<_MMA_> ï»¿Rabiddog: It's been reported. Was fixed last I saw. Was a theme issue.
<Rabiddog> ah ok
<Rabiddog> I'll stop searchingthen
<cjwatson> infinity: all done
<infinity> cjwatson: Hrm, looks like no one moved Sparc to ports in livecd-rootfs either...
<cjwatson> whoops
 * infinity fixes.
<cjwatson> ta
<infinity> cjwatson: Oh, one thing I noticed on antimony...
<infinity> cjwatson: antimony seems to assume that flavour=generic for lpia, when it should be lpia (linux-lpia).
<cjwatson> mm, I think that maybe predates the lpia flavour
<infinity> cjwatson: If that results in unbootable media, I assume that answers the "does anyone actually use this?" question.
<cjwatson> originally, the idea was to be able to boot lpia live CDs on normal i386 hardware to see if it blew up
<infinity> Yeah, I suspect that goes way back to the livecd-rootfs with the biarch apt hack.
<cjwatson> do lpia kernels boot on normal i386 hardware?
<infinity> Maaaaybe.
<infinity> I wouldn't bank on it.
<cjwatson> I think that might be a case of "file a bug, subscribe StevenK, see if he cares"
<cjwatson> I'm not sure I want to change it unilaterally
<infinity> But lpia doesn't have -generic x86 kernels anyway, so it's moot.
<infinity> linux-generic | 2.6.24.16.18 | intrepid/restricted | amd64, i386
<infinity> linux-lpia | 2.6.24.16.18 | intrepid/restricted | lpia
<cjwatson> err. does it build successfully at the moment?
<cjwatson> I guess we don't autobuild lpia live CDs so who knows
<cjwatson> ok, you've convinced me, I'll switch
<cjwatson> done
<persia> Hardy LPIA kernels are booting OK on i386 hardware and qemu at least.
<cjwatson> persia: ok, cool
<infinity> cjwatson: You want to have a quick glance at my livecd-rootfs changes in bzr before I upload?
<cjwatson> infinity: I haven't gone through all the ARCH users, but that looks OK, except that you don't assign LIST if TARGETARCH == i386
<cjwatson>         i386)
<cjwatson> -           case $FS in
<cjwatson> -               ubuntu-lpia) LIST="$LIST linux-lpia";;
<cjwatson> -               *)      LIST="$LIST linux-generic";;
<cjwatson> -           esac;;
<cjwatson> that bit
<infinity> cjwatson: Err, oops. ;)
<cjwatson> otherwise I think it's correct
<infinity> cjwatson: Exhuberant leaning on the d key.
<cjwatson> oh, not quite
<cjwatson> you need to adjust the getopts arg as well
<cjwatson> add a:
<infinity> cjwatson: \o/
<infinity> cjwatson: Commited those.
<cjwatson> looks good
<infinity> cjwatson: The arch/targetarch thing is so I can drop this in place on all the buildds and terranova will still happily build ubuntu-lpia as it did before, but overriding ARCH=lpia on concordia will get a full set of lpia builds.
<cjwatson> ah, yeah
<infinity> (Cause we all know how much the community has been clamouring for kubuntu/lpia)
<infinity> *crickets*
 * cjwatson grins
<infinity> cjwatson: Uploaded.  Shall I just accept it myself? :0
<cjwatson> intrepid isn't frozen, so it should auto-accept
<infinity> Oh, that's "new".
<infinity> I need a script that checks suite states for me and tells me when they change.  Or something equally nerdy.
 * Rabiddog curses , cant get my windows box to connect to my smb share on my linux box
<cjwatson> reminds me, I should mail ubuntu-devel-announce
 * Rabiddog wonders if something changed with samba since gutsy
<infinity> Hrm, there's one bug in there, but I always mangle BuildLiveCD by hand anyway, so I'll just commit and not upload a fresh one.
<infinity> (Can't pass "-a $ARCH" to livecd.sh if suite << intrepid)
<Rabiddog> hey cjwatson got a sec?
<Rabiddog> Do you know by chance why am I getting the following error "sudo: unable to resolve host House" on my shell prompts?
<cjwatson> Rabiddog: bug 32906, I imagine
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 32906 in sudo "sudo fails if it cannot resolve the local hostname and no MTA is installed" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/32906
<Rabiddog> cjwatson, how do u find those things so quickly
<cjwatson> Rabiddog: please test the fix in hardy-proposed
<cjwatson> Rabiddog: because I knew about this one in advance :-)
<Rabiddog> lol
<cjwatson> it's one of the major known issues in hardy, that's on the list for 8.04.1
<cjwatson> Rabiddog: (if you test the proposed update, please report success/failure in the bug report)
<Rabiddog> smb wasn't sure if his fixed could be in 8.04.1 btw
<Rabiddog> k
<Rabiddog> for the dmraid issue
<Rabiddog> err
<Rabiddog> syanptic is refusing to start
<Rabiddog> brb
<infinity> cjwatson: A quick boo again at livecd-rootfs?
<Rabiddog> cjwatson, I'm confused I have prereleased-updates  (hardy-proposed) checkmarked, is this hardy propose your talking about cjwatson
<cjwatson> yes, that's what I'm talking about
<infinity> cjwatson: Nevermind the unterminated cases, I'm half asleep.
<cjwatson> infinity: looks fine aside from that
<Rabiddog> hmm no update is showing up for sudo
<cjwatson> it's version 1.6.9p10-1ubuntu3.1
<cjwatson> but perhaps #ubuntu or #ubuntu-bugs or something for further discussion of that, please
<Rabiddog> k
<ffm> So, there's no way I can get my package into universe if I submit it psedunonymously? I have to have someone else sign it?
<LaserJock> ffm: huh?
<ffm> LaserJock, I have a package I want to get into universe (I packaged it).
<Amaranth> He/She doesn't want to use a real name but does want to do packaging
<LaserJock> fine
<ffm> Amaranth, He.
<ffm> LaserJock, Supposudly it won't be accepted unless my key is in the SWOT, and no one would sign a pseudononymous key.
<LaserJock> there's nothing stopping you
<LaserJock> no, that's not true
<LaserJock> you probably can't become a developer
<LaserJock> but you can certainly get your package uploaded
<Rabiddog> cjwatson, fixed simple by correctly setting hostname and hosts file correctly :)
<ScottK> ffm: No one has to sign your key.
<LaserJock> ffm: a signed key is generally required to become a MOTU or Core Developer
<ScottK> LaserJock: No.  It's not.
<ffm> LaserJock, Why wouldn't I be able to become a developer?
<LaserJock> ScottK: well ... that's up for debate
<ffm> LaserJock, In any case, what about this...
<ScottK> I key uploaded to LP is required, but no one needs to sign it.
<LaserJock> ScottK: to become a MOTU?
<ScottK> LaserJock: I was already a MOTU before anyone signed my key.
<LaserJock> well, *I* was told that it was required and I know that's been enforced in the past
<ScottK> The only reason I've bothered at all is because I decided to enter Debian NM.
<cjwatson> I think pseudonymous development would be at best controversial, and the developer would have to be especially good, I suspect
<slangasek> it's harder to get ICBM coordinates on abusers if they're also pseudonymous, and that's always a nice insurance policy to have
<ffm> Email my key to a canonical employee, sign that key with my real name key (which is SWOT'd). The canonical employee then signes my pseudonymous key and publishes his signature. Thus, I am tieable to a real person.
<ScottK> I don't see where we have any policies in place to require an actual real name.
<LaserJock> ffm: if you just want to have your package uploaded it's no problem.
<ScottK> I used my real name on my key, but no one ever verified it.
<cjwatson> any Canonical employee who signs a key after only e-mail contact is likely to receive a stern talking-to about key management
<slangasek> :)
<LaserJock> ScottK: it should have been
<LaserJock> when I had my key signed I had to show legal ID
<ffm> LaserJock, I'd like to be a MOTU one day.
<LaserJock> ffm: then you may face some issue, *may*
<ScottK> LaserJock: When I had my key signed I had to show ID, but that was after MOTU.
<cjwatson> I'd have no problem signing a pseudonymous key if I'd met the person and had some way of tying their real-world identity to their pseudonym
<LaserJock> ScottK: but that doesn't mean it's right :-)
<ScottK> LaserJock: If we want to require a signed key, then we need to have that in our process.
<ffm> cjwatson, thus the signature.
<ScottK> We don't now.
<LaserJock> I've brought this up before and it didn't seem like it went anywhere
<cjwatson> ffm: you're not getting it just by e-mail though
<LaserJock> ScottK: we *did*, somewhere along the lines it got silently dropped
<ffm> cjwatson, Key A (real name) is in the WOT.
<ffm> cjwatson, Key A signs key B (ffm), and emails signature to Canonical Employee A.
<LaserJock> ffm: the point is nobody is going to sign a key over email
<LaserJock> or shouldn't in any case
<cjwatson> ffm: that's (IMO) a dangerous kind of transitive trust, and I'm not going to be socially-engineered into it, sorry
<cjwatson> if you want a signature, you have to meet in person
<ScottK> ffm: The other option is to come back with a pseudonym that looks like a real name and never mention it.
<ffm> cjwatson, What about if I got a well connected Ubuntu member who I know IRL to sign my key?
<LaserJock> ScottK: it shouldn't matter
<ffm> or would that cause issues with privacy...
<cjwatson> ffm: nobody should *ever* sign a key based on what somebody else has done. It should only ever be from personal experience.
<LaserJock> ID should be checked so you'd know if ti was a pseudonym or not presumably
<crimsun> ffm: just bring the forms of ID that I requested next time ;-)
<ScottK> LaserJock: Maybe it should, but that's not part of our current process.
<LaserJock> ScottK: umm, yes it is
<cjwatson> ffm: there's no reason why the link from your pseudonymous key to the WOT has to be through a Canonical employee, BTW; you don't need to get hung up on that
<ScottK> LaserJock: Where?
<ScottK> Maybe that's what I'm missing.
<ffm> cjwatson, Yeah, I know.
<cjwatson> somebody else in the WOT who's willing to certify it would be fine
<ffm> cjwatson, However, I trust them more than J. Random User.
<cjwatson> but I still think that when giving root access to our systems to somebody that at least the development team ought to have some idea of whom they're dealing with
<infinity> ffm: You clearly haven't met all of us, then.
<ffm> crimsun, PM?
<ffm> infinity, clearly.
<LaserJock> ScottK: well, there's not a technical "how to sign a gpg key" standard that I know of, but all the documentation I've ever seen says that you must know the identity of the person who owns the key your'e signing
<LaserJock> and hence you need to check legal ID
<cjwatson> LaserJock: ScottK's talking about MOTU-joining process not key-signing process, as I read it
<ffm> LaserJock, I don't think I can get a govt ID that says FFM.
<ScottK> LaserJock: I agree with that.  I'm just saying no where in the "here's what you have to do to become a MOTU" process does it say get your key signed.
<ScottK> cjwatson: Yes.
<LaserJock> ScottK: oh, that was before it was ever written down
<infinity> LaserJock: Note that there are cases where "know the identity" and "check legal ID" don't need to match up, it's just a good baseline.  I, for instance, wouldn't insist on seeing my mother's passport to verify her identity to me.
<cjwatson> ffm: somebody has to have shared enough information with you in your ffm identity that they can confirm upon meeting you in real life that this is the same person who identifies as ffm
<LaserJock> infinity: very true, but for random people I feel like it's appropriate
<ScottK> LaserJock: OK.  There may have been such a requirement in the distant past.  Currently there is not.
<crimsun> ffm: sure
<LaserJock> ScottK: currently no, hence why I said sometime in the past it was silently dropped
<ffm> cjwatson, I'm pretty sure I know people like that.
<crimsun> ffm: also, I've met you, so anonymity is out the window.
<ScottK> So getting his key signed is not required.
<LaserJock> ScottK: or at least I believe it was silent. I don't remember a TB ruling on it
<ScottK> Before my time.
<LaserJock> ScottK: well ... I'm not sure
<ffm> crimsun, omg, you just ruined my anonymity... :(
<Nafallo> baah. easier to just change your name to your nick :-)
<ffm> sabdfl, _the_ sabdfl ?
<ScottK> LaserJock: Let's turn it around: Should we eject any MOTU who's key isn't in the WOT?
<LaserJock> I think either way the TB ought to say something either way
<crimsun> ffm: you're online.  Ain't much anonymous there.
<ffm> crimsun, pretty pseudonymous.
<emgent> i go to sleep
<emgent> night people :)
<ScottK> Good night emgent.
<LaserJock> ScottK: I guess I wouldn't, but I would want them to get their key signed as soon as possible
<persia> There's currently a bit of a mess with the MOTU WOT.  Likely good to do some graph analysis and try to get it to have fewer fragments before seeking to establish/reestablish a policy.
<ScottK> So far I have exactly one signature on my key (some Debian guy who goes by vorlon on Debian IRC).  I haven't checked, but I doubt I'm alone.
<LaserJock> I personally don't have much of a problem with somebody who doesn't have their key signed by an Ubuntu person
<infinity> ffm: No, it's not _the_ sabdfl, it's just one of many.  He's a fictional character, and we take turns pretending to be him on IRC.
<LaserJock> but I do feel it should be signed to *somebody*
<ffm> infinity, lo.
<jcastro> ScottK: I hear that guy is shady. :)
<ffm> *lol.
<ffm> ScottK, Only one? I have 3, and I'm just in secondary school.
<LaserJock> my key was signed by a CS guy at my uni
<infinity> ScottK: That was sarcasm, right? :)
<infinity> ScottK: (The "some Debian guy who goes by vorlon" thing...)
<slangasek> jcastro: I hear he's some kind of double agent
<ScottK> infinity: Yes.
<infinity> ScottK: Just checking.  My sarcasometer is off today.
<ScottK> It was at UDS.  Understand.
<LaserJock> in any case, do people think it's worth a TB agenda item?
<ScottK> LaserJock: Under our current process I think there is no difference between a key belonging to ffm and John Doe.  The fact that one is more obviously a pseudonym doesn't change anything.
<ffm> LaserJock, What, key signing being required?
<LaserJock> I don't care about pseudonyms
<LaserJock> that's not my issue
<ffm> LaserJock, Fedora requires real names. (fedora was a pain, I had to go through a proxy)
<ffm> As does debian AFAICT.
<ScottK> Debian requires a key signed by a DD if you want to be a DD.
<infinity> We also require real names.
<ScottK> So yes, it means your identity verified.
<infinity> s/We/Debian/
<LaserJock> my point was about requiring a signed key
<LaserJock> but well, pseudonyms might as well be thrown in at the same time ;-)
<persia> Keys aren't currently important, although they'd be nice.  Names are more important, although even Debian allows pseudonyms if appropriately registered.
<ScottK> I think we should be about consistent identity and not worry so much about correct.
<ScottK> Unless we are going to have an enforced identity verification process, then there's really no point in insisting on a name.
<LaserJock> but it would be nice to know what the rules are in any case, right/
<ScottK> Agreed.
<ffm> persia, Appropriately registered?
<ScottK> I think that we know the defacto rules.
<Amaranth> bug 225941 has what I think is needed for an SRU (haven't done one before) but as I cannot upload to main I'm not sure what to do next
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 225941 in alacarte "undo does not work on deleted items" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/225941
<LaserJock> ScottK: well, I didn't
<LaserJock> ScottK: up until not long ago I assumed it was still a requirement
<ScottK> OK.
<ScottK> I think the defacto rules are known.
<ScottK> Not necessarily to all.
<LaserJock> now, yes
<LaserJock> I guess
<LaserJock> do we know if the MC/TB know the defacto rules?
<persia> ffm: A registered pseudonym is one that can be uniquely tracked to a real identity, sometimes through a proxy.  Common cases are pen names, screen names, etc.
<LaserJock> as opposed to just not paying attention
<ffm> persia, How do you go about accomplishing that?
<ScottK> persia: As a minor I doubt he'd be able to accomplish the registration without defeating his purpose in being pseudonymous.
<persia> ScottK: In his jurisdiction, it's usually not an issue with parental consent.
<ScottK> OK.
<ScottK> I'm not familiar with the process.
<calc> grr i saw a useful link a few days ago that showed the ide spec and where APM part is defined
<ScottK> I thought the point was he was trying to avoid his parents googling his name.
<calc> but i can't find it anymore
<james_w> Amaranth: you want to propose an SRU for 225941 now?
<Amaranth> james_w: yeah
<james_w> Amaranth: you need to nominate for Hardy I think, and then subscribe motu-sru.
<Amaranth> not motu, that's in main
<james_w> sorry, ubuntu-sru
<LaserJock> Amaranth: read wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
<LaserJock> :-)
<Amaranth> LaserJock: that says to upload it then subscribe those to get it accepted :P
<LaserJock> what?
<LaserJock> Amaranth: you subscribe ubuntu-sru first
<jdong> Amaranth: you gotta get it ACKed before uploading it :)
<Amaranth> ok, well now someone else can ACK it and upload it :P
<LaserJock> jdong: though we dont' say that on the wiki page
<jdong> LaserJock: you're joking?
<LaserJock> nope
<Amaranth> it's james_w's fix anyway :P
<calc> from what hitachi has told me if you don't set the standby timer to something sane for their hard drives it parks _immediately_
<LaserJock> it just says subscribe the SRU team
<LaserJock> never says that you it has to be ack'd
<LaserJock> we had a slight "accident" because of that the other day
<calc> and from what it looks like the opcode that hdparm uses to set the standby timer is (perhaps?) old
<LaserJock> jdong: I'm working on a fix
<LaserJock> :-)
<calc> in any case setting the timer with -S doesn't work
<jdong> LaserJock: be sure to subscribe motu-sru and target it at the wiki
<jdong> *ducks*
#ubuntu-devel 2008-05-03
<ffm> irseek doesn't log this channel... odd...
<persia> ffm: irclogs.ubuntu.com (for further information on irseek, read the ubuntu-irc mailing list archives)
<slangasek> Amaranth: so intrepid is open now, is the fix for bug #225941 going to be uploaded there first? :)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 225941 in alacarte "undo does not work on deleted items" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/225941
<Amaranth> slangasek: I guess that would be up to whoever sponsors it, as I am not core-dev :P
<slangasek> ah, did you mean to subscribe ubuntu-main-sponsors then? :-)
<calc> so looks like i am going to dig into the hdparm source to determine what opcodes it is using for the standby option, it seems it only sets one of standby or idle, but doesn't actually say which (and might not be using the correct opcode at all)
<infinity> cjwatson: In a shocking departure from what seems sane and reasonably, base-livefs/intrepid built on all 7 architectures, so that should give something to test with to make sure antimony's fully transitioned.
<ffm> So, for a clarification, to get my package accepted, it just needs to be signed, and my public key in launchpad. It doesn't need to be in the SWOT or use a real name. Right?
<cjwatson> infinity: *blink* that's a surprise
<ffm> Just to make sure I understand.
<cjwatson> infinity: feel free to poke build-livecd-base or whatever it's called on antimony
<LaserJock> ffm: that is correct
<cjwatson> infinity: oh, remember to set DIST=intrepid explicitly, as that isn't the default yet
<ffm> LaserJock, Excellent. Now can anyone explain why my packages arn't showing up in my PPA after I submit the changes file?
<cjwatson>                 __u8 args[4] = {ATA_OP_SETIDLE1,standby,0,0};
<cjwatson> calc: that one?
<cjwatson> (at a guess, I don't know hdparm well)
<calc> cjwatson: yea probably, i haven't unpacked the source yet
<cjwatson> there seem to be several different standby-ish paths
<calc> cjwatson: i got an email back from hitachi that notes that they park the heads immediately unless the standby/idle timer is set
<LaserJock> ffm: there could be a whole host of reasons, you should ask in #launchpad or #ubuntu-motu though
<calc> cjwatson: but even when i tried -S it still did it, so i need to verify its using the right opcode for my drive i guess(?)
<cjwatson> you're ahead of me, I think :)
<calc> cjwatson: if the timers aren't getting setup right i guess that could point to why users are setting load_cycle_count going through the roof
<calc> cjwatson: on my drive it increments once per ~ 8-9s :-\
<cjwatson> did Hitachi indicate whether this was actually harmful?
<calc> cjwatson: yes they said it was likely to cause problems and that under normal conditions doesn't happen until ~ 3 years of use
<jdong> calc: s... so am I understanding correctly that we have to set a timeout or else the disk assumes the most aggressive one?
<calc> cjwatson: the 600K rating is roughly in place of MTBF
<calc> jdong: it sounds like it, but using -S doesn't work for me, perhaps due to bad opcode, i will investigate later tonight, about to eat dinner
<calc> gotta run
<spiniker> hello
<spiniker> im having problems with my nvidia graphics card on ubuntu
<spiniker> is there a room where i could go for help
<spiniker> i fear that i might end up re installing for the third time again..
<ScottK> spiniker: #ubuntu
<spiniker> been there but its too busy
<cjwatson> spiniker: you might find https://wiki.ubuntu.com/X/Debugging and the pages linked off it helpful
<Keybuk> err
<Keybuk> why is emacs almost crashing by just trying to save a file?
<slangasek> what does it mean to "almost crash"?
<Keybuk> the hard drive light is permanently on
<Keybuk> and it hands in D
<Keybuk> hangs
<spiniker> well my screen just turn black and now i cant even see a thing,how can i debug it?
<cjwatson> spiniker: (note: I'm not an expert, just know there's a good deal of stuff there)
<cjwatson> there's #ubuntu-x, though I don't know whether they intend it to be developer-only or not
<Keybuk_> well that was weird
<Keybuk> it was like tracker was running all over again
<LaserJock> Keybuk: oh, RMS didn't tell you that he's folded tracker into emacs so you don't need to leave emacs? :-)
<sladen> Keybuk: with Hardy, I've been having firefox freeze lots (which with compiz fades to grey).  Feels like some weird disk I/O
<Keybuk> yeah is definitely a firefox issue
<Keybuk> I've seen it with ff 3.0
<Keybuk> but not with epiphany
<sladen> wonder if it's URL/search bar completition related
<cjwatson> sladen: known urlclassifier bug
<sladen> eg. an outgoing query to an extranal site (something.google.com) and blocking in there
<jdong> sladen: that's a known bug
<ion_> Could it be related to the thing that with ext3, fsync() does a full sync? (AFAIK)
<sladen> cjwatson: coo, ta
<cjwatson> bug 215728
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 215728 in firefox-3.0 "[MASTER] Committing to urlclassifier3.sqlite causes excessive CPU usage and disk I/O" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/215728
<jdong> ion_: that is a part of the reason yes
<cjwatson> very top bug in the firefox-3.0 list
<sladen> sqlite++
<slangasek> == sqlitf
<jdong> and is sqlite-- preqlite?
 * jdong hears groans coming from the ethernet cable...
<ion_> slangasek: Depends on the language. :-)
<ion_> I wonder whether the fsync issue gets fixed with ext4?
<slangasek> ion_: right, in python I believe that evaluates to "postgresql"
<jdong> ion_: it's not clear how to fix that
<ion_> :-)
<jdong> ion_: rather than just screwing fsync or screwing ordered metadata updating
<jdong> ion_: I mean every linux FS with the concept of ordering metadata updates has this fsync-is-sync bug (reiser4 suffered REAL bad from it)
<ion_> Ok
<jdong> I recall while I used it when a :wq in vim triggered a 800MB writeback cache flush :)
<jdong> that was painful
<ion_> Yeah, i've experienced the issue with :w taking ages once or twice.
<Amaranth> slangasek: If I need to upload my 'fix' to intrepid first can I just upload the fix that completely removes the Delete functionality? Or is that too much for an SRU?
<Amaranth> That's what I plan on doing for the next release upstream anyway
<Amaranth> (for alacarte)
<slangasek> Amaranth: ah, heh, that's probably not a change we want in an SRU, no
<slangasek> Amaranth: but technically it does mean the bug will be fixed in intrepid <shrug>
<Amaranth> slangasek: So do I still need to upload this to intrepid first?
<slangasek> Amaranth: nah, in that case probably not
<Amaranth> There is no way to make the Delete function work properly, I only added it because people kept complaining
<cjwatson> calc: I notice that OOo 3.0 is scheduled for release in mid-September or so, which is unfortunately too late for Intrepid really. Perhaps it can be packaged separately (i.e. openoffice.org3-*) for a while? IIRC there's support for that kind of thing already in the rules file
<Amaranth> I bet you it gets released in December :P
<azeem> W31
<azeem> bah
<ffm> cjwatson, we can do what we did with ff3
<cjwatson> ffm: Firefox 3 was a special case, and I'm not convinced that the reasons apply to OOo 3 at this time
<cjwatson> ffm: in the case of Firefox 3, we knew that if we didn't step forward then we would be obliged to provide security support for something that would likely reach end-of-life upstream before the end-of-life for 8.04
<cjwatson> ffm: but 8.10's support lifetime will end before 8.04's, so that argument doesn't apply here; we will have to support OOo 2.4 for the same amount of time either way
<cjwatson> ffm: and so it makes more sense to ensure that we're shipping a well-QAed stable release, and perhaps provide the beta as an alternative
<cjwatson> or even the final release, which would be less risky if it weren't the default
<calc> back
<taisha> hello
<cjwatson> (still, I'm up for arguing it out at UDS)
<taisha> i'm trying to figure out how to read the glibc source code
<Darklock> lol
<taisha> how would I go about doing that?
<cjwatson> glibc is a hefty beast
<cjwatson> what exactly are you trying to achieve?
<taisha> specifically, I want to read the code for ld.so
<cjwatson> I assume you're looking for something in particular
<calc> cjwatson: OOo 3.0 is slated for Sept 2, but might slip
<taisha> and some of the other ld stuff
<cjwatson> calc: yeah, I saw the dates on the wiki - I suspect slippage is likely at this point, and that puts it up against 8.10 beta at the very best
<taisha> working on getting a deeper understanding of the shared library process
<ffm> cjwatson, does canonical do sponsered trips to UDSs?
<cjwatson> ffm: selectively, yes
<slangasek> your understanding has to be pretty deep to begin with to learn anything from ld.so... :)
<taisha> haha
<taisha> good
<taisha> i'll get there
<taisha> may not be there yet
<cjwatson> taisha: elf/rtld.c is the starting point
<taisha> okay
<ffm> cjwatson, hm.. I don't think I'd qualify.
<taisha> how do I get the code initially?
<cjwatson> but (while this is not normally my advice to competent C programmers) in the case of ld.so I'd start with more accessible documentation
<taisha> is it part of a package?
<taisha> i'm actually working on understanding what's going on at the assembly level
<cjwatson> taisha: apt-get source glibc, then cd into the directory that produces and run 'debian/rules patch'
<cjwatson> then cd to build-tree/glibc-*/
<taisha> excellent
<cjwatson> I don't think any of ld.so is written in assembly
<taisha> intriguing
<taisha> it'll be interesting to figure out what exactly is going on
<cjwatson> well, that's not quite true, some primitive things like thread-local storage macros are in assembly
<cjwatson> but the interesting logic is all in C
 * calc is trying to determine how far 2.4 slipped
<taisha> thanks cjw
<taisha> this is a good starting point
<cjwatson> calc: bearing in mind that we'd ordinarily require new major upstream versions to be in place by end of August ...
<cjwatson> I think a separately-packaged tree might be a better starting point
<taisha> is there such a tree?
<cjwatson> taisha: assuming you have a vaguely normal brain, though, you won't find ld.so to be much like any C you're familiar with :)
 * slangasek grins
<cjwatson> taisha: I was talking to calc with that statement, and not about glibc
<calc> cjwatson: well rc is scheduled for end of july
<cjwatson> hmm, an RC *might* be doable
<taisha> ah, got it
<calc> cjwatson: looks like 2.4 final slipped about 3 weeks from the original schedule
<cjwatson> but we'd have to be prepared to ship with it
<taisha> yeah, I'll have a lot to learn
<taisha> haven't done x86 assembly
<calc> cjwatson: but 2.4 final vs an rc would be like what we shipped, either way it still had bugs :\
<cjwatson> mm
<taisha> done some other forms of assembly, mostly microcontroller stuff
<taisha> but, I think I'll get it eventually
<cjwatson> glibc isn't x86-specific
<calc> cjwatson: meaning they are still finding bugs in 2.4 so they are rolling out a 2.4.1
<taisha> ah....
<taisha> that's interesting
<calc> cjwatson: from what i have read they really consider 3.0 to be a continuation of 2.4 series but wanted a big shiny number
<taisha> man, this probably will be some deep stuff to wade through
<taisha> oh well
<cjwatson> it's a confusing policy at best :)
<taisha> =)
<taisha> thanks
<calc> cjwatson: i'm not sure but it may be related to the OOXML support
<cjwatson> calc: anyway, happy to talk through it at UDS with more data, I just wanted to raise it in case you were about to upload openoffice.org_3.0~b1-0ubuntu1 or something to intrepid before then. :-)
<calc> cjwatson: yea i'll wait for UDS
<cjwatson> don't let me stop you playing with it though ;-)
<calc> cjwatson: btw they seem to be fixing most of the bugs we have sent upstream for 3.0
<calc> well a lot of them anyway, maybe most is pushing it ;)
<cjwatson> I noticed some activity on many of them, certainly
<cjwatson> I was looking at that list just earlier today :)
<calc> ah ok
<calc> looks like the main end user relevant features for 3.0 are OOXML support, ODF 1.2 support
<calc> i haven't verified if the OOXML support includes write support but if so that would be a nice improvement over what we have currently
<calc> jdong: i think i fixed the problem with the hard drives, whee!
<calc> jdong: need to do some more testing though
<calc> so far its looking a lot better than it was at least
<calc> its definitely at least looks like it is cycling much SLOWER :)
<calc> it doesn't look like it is doing what i tell it to do as far as standby timer exact timing but it does look like it is cycling slower
<calc> i set the timer to 5 minutes and am going to leave it alone for a while then, set it to 5s and see the difference
<dmb> is it known that there is broken links on help.ubuntu.com (alternate cd links)
<ScottK> dmb: Theres a ubuntu-website project on Launchpad.  Look for bugs there and file one if there isn't one.
<dmb> ok
<dmb> apparently the 8.04lts documentation page is full of bad links
<ScottK> Then I guess it's a long bug.
<cjwatson> the installation-guide links? yeah, those should all have /8.04 inserted at the start
<cjwatson> definitely a bug
<calc> ok no it isn't working, i just thought it was :(
<calc> but now i can come back to them telling them i set the timers and it still overly aggressively parks regardless of the settings
<calc> so we're back to thinking its a firmware problem but that we also weren't doing exactly what would be needed to resolve the problem anyway
<calc> we should be doing -S # to make sure it doesn't park too fast due to journal fs, etc, but at least in my case it seems the standby timer code in the firmware is buggy (or something to that effect) waiting to hear back from hitachi again though
<bd_> woo universe sync started
<jscinoz> hmm..
<jscinoz> the requestsync script in ubuntu-dev-tools appears to be broken >_<
<persia> jscinoz: It reliably breaks each release.  It could be fixed, or you could file a sync bug manually.
<jscinoz> "reliably breaks" - like that >_<
<jscinoz> i like that*
<Hobbsee> jscinoz: i just used it, no problem.s
<Hobbsee> jscinoz: define broken?
<jscinoz> The package I'm going to request sync of has two dependencies that are not yet in Ubuntu, should i file separate sync requests for these?
<jscinoz> hobbse, i'll pastebin, one moment.
<bd_> jscinoz: they should be imported automatically as soon as they go through NEW processing
<jscinoz> oh?
<bd_> if they're in debian
<jscinoz> Is there a place where this can be checked?
<bd_> which they must be if you're syncing
<jscinoz> Yes they're currently in unstable
<bd_> let me see
<bd_> what's the name of the dependency?
<bd_> also, the name of the package to be synced
<jscinoz> source packages are: teeworlds, with deps: libpnglite and libglfw
<bd_> teeworlds is new, then?
<jscinoz> yes
<jscinoz> I packaged it, and pnglite
<jscinoz> glfw was packaged by another Debian-games team member
<bd_> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/teeworlds <-- it seems to be pending
<bd_> I'm not sure where the contents of the NEW queue are visible though, a look at intrepid upload history doesn't list it
<bd_> I guess because the point of NEW handling is to make sure we can legally distribute it :)
<jscinoz> Hmm..
<persia> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/intrepid/+queue
<bd_> persia: I searched there
<jscinoz> Although, as the package is actually available/installable via the debian repository, its finished NEW processing then?
<persia> Maybe it's waiting on the build then.  That can take a while at this point in the cycle
<jscinoz> Alright, I'l check back in a few days then
<bd_> jscinoz: there's a seperate NEW for ubuntu
<bd_> which new imports have to go through
<jscinoz> ah
<bd_> if it was waiting for build it would be published
<jscinoz> So I still need to file a sync-request? or will it be automatically done eventually?
<bd_> It'll be done, eventually :)
<persia> There's actually two NEW stages, source-NEW and binary-NEW.  The first is before the build, the second after.  Check the Accepted and Done queues.
<bd_> persia: source-NEW is disclosed?
<bd_> or well downloadable
<bd_> ?
<bd_> it has a launchpad page, but it doesn't show in any of the queues
<jscinoz> Should the two newly packaged dependencies also have source-package pages on launchpad?
<bd_> maybe, the importer might still be running though
<persia> bd_: Apparently so.  I can see source NEW without authenticating to LP.
<bd_> persia: hmm, then why does https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/teeworlds not 404, but teeworlds doesn't appear in the queues?
<persia> (same LP page, but different steps in the approval cycle)
<persia> bd_ There's an unbelieviably large number of reasons that could happen.
<bd_> oh :)
<bd_> so, if it didn't get imported, how could one tell?
<persia> If it is in Debian, and it's not blacklisted, it will be imported, and show in one of NEW, Approved, or Done.
<bd_> It's not in any of NEW, Accepted (there is no Approved), or Done
<Hobbsee> persia: that looks rather lost
<Hobbsee> as in, there should still be a source somewhere in LP for it
<jscinoz> So is there a problem with the package i should address or is it just the server taking a while due to everything happening at the moment?
<persia> Hobbsee: Yes, but the source could be in a different distro, in a PPA, or whatever (unless that bug got fixed).
<Hobbsee> persia: presumably they didn't revert the borken bits, in that case, even if it did get fixed
<jscinoz> teeworlds is currently in my PPA :P but its a much older version of the package (which used embedded libs rather than the system ones, the version I created for debian fixes this)
<jscinoz> that probably explains it :P
<bd_> jscinoz: I guess maybe wait a week or so, and if it's still gone, file a sync request somewhere?
<jscinoz> will do, thanks for the help
<Hobbsee> sec.
<Hobbsee> i should be able to do it from here
<Hobbsee> nope, it doesn't do new-to-ubuntu packages
<Hobbsee> jscinoz: if it's a launchpad bug, then it should already be on the autosync list
<Hobbsee> give it a few days - i dont' think tehy autosync everything at the same time
<pabs3> how do I request a sync from Debian and a hardy-backport? (I'm upstream and Debian maint for etl/synfig/synfigstudio)
<Hobbsee> like, i think new packages done later
<Hobbsee> pabs3: are there any changes in the ubuntu packages?
<pabs3> Hobbsee: only a binNMU
<pabs3> (or whatever that is called in Ubuntu)
<persia> A rebuild
<Hobbsee> pabs3: they'll get automatically synched, you don't need to worry
<pabs3> Hobbsee: ok. what about a hardy-backport?
<persia> If it was only a rebuild, it gets autosynced.  For a backport, file a bug against https://launchpad.net/hardy-backports/+filebug
<jscinoz> hobbse, The only launchpad bug relating to teeworlds would be the needs-packaging i added a while ago before i decided to target debian instead. would that help at all? (not really sure how launchpad does its many tasks >_<(
<Hobbsee> pabs3: mmm, you'll need to file that.  i don't file them
<jdong> pabs3: once the sync is complete, file a bug agasint product hardy-backports on launchpad
<Hobbsee> jscinoz: it would be that it created a product page in ubuntu because you'd uploaded it to a ppa
<pabs3> thanks persia, jdong
<pabs3> how often do the autosyncs happen?
<jscinoz> Hobbsee, ah i see.
<Hobbsee> pabs3: well, there are 4000-odd packages waiting to build on i386
<Hobbsee> and presumably there are more after that
<pabs3> ohfun :)
<pabs3> sounds like Ubuntu needs some more buildds
<persia> It's a brand new release, so it's a concentrated upload of the last six months activity in Debian
<bd_> sounds like ubuntu should rent out a few EC2 instances for a few days :)
<Hobbsee> bd_: they'lll build quick enough
<persia> No real point.  With this level of change, there are no users, and pre-UDS, developers tend to work on specs and release goals more than code (excepting toolchain stuff)
<Hobbsee> persia: i upgraded last time after the autosyncs, iirc
<Hobbsee> so, few users :P
<pabs3> if anyone wants to make a Debian person happier, I'd love for Adri2000's fix for LP#188955 to go live
<persia> Hobbsee: I upgraded last time before archive open.  Still, it's not recommended.
<pabs3> thanks for the help all
<persia> bug 188955
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 188955 in merge-o-matic "Don't export patches for simple rebuild" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/188955
<Hobbsee> enopower to do that.  Keybuk will need to do that, i expect
<emgent> morning
<ffm> Gey, anyone care to review my REVU package? http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=thinkcspy2
<ffm> *Hey
<ScottK> ffm: Asking the same question on multiple channels is not appreciated.  Also that question is on topic in #uubntu-motu where you already asked it.
<ffm> ScottK, I apologize.
<ScottK> No problem.  Now you know.
<ffm> Uh, I have a debdiff patch for a main package, how do I go about getting someone to look at it? I've already subscribed ubuntu-main-sponsors.
<Festor> ffm, did you publish the patch in package bug in Launchpad?
<ffm> Festor, Yes.
<Festor> Then, wait... xD
<ffm> Festor, Bug #193701
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 193701 in lintian "Add "intrepid" to known distribution names" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/193701
<ffm> Festor, Am I supposed to increment the changelog when I prepare a debdiff, or is that done by the sponsor?
<Festor> ffm, see this https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lintian/+bug/193701/comments/3
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 193701 in lintian "Add "intrepid" to known distribution names" [Wishlist,Confirmed]
<ffm> Festor, In that case the person who fixed the bug was an ubuntu member. I'm not.
<wgrant> ffm: Increment the changelog yourself.
<ffm> wgrant, I did. I wasn't able to sign the package, as I'm not listed as the maintainer (main is).
<ffm> But sigs shoudn't matter for debdiffs, right>
<ffm> *?
<wgrant> Correct.
<cjwatson> ffm: I did that upstream already
<cjwatson> ffm: it'll be fixed with the next sync from Debian
<cjwatson> hmm, in fact it might be fixed already
<ffm> cjwatson, Darn. So all my work was for nil?
<cjwatson> sorry, I'm afraid so
<ffm> cjwatson, It isn't in hardy at least.
<cjwatson> no, that's correct
<cjwatson> if you really think it should be backported for 8.04.1, you can propose that, but I don't think it's really necessary
<cjwatson> I'm sorry I didn't see the bug earlier or I'd have said
<geser> ffm: and from looking at your debdiff your changes seem to be missing as it contains only the Maintainer change
<ffm> geser, oops.
<cjwatson> ffm: note that updating devscripts and lintian is in the NewReleaseCycleProcess so we tend to do it automatically
<cjwatson> I'll add apt-show-versions to that too
<wgrant> cjwatson: Don't we normally backport new lintians?
<cjwatson> wgrant: I don't think it's needed
<cjwatson> well
<cjwatson> it does appear that we do
<cjwatson>    lintian |    1.23.47 |      intrepid | source, all
<cjwatson> sure, I guess we can backport it if one of the backports team validates it
<wgrant> Rather than telling people to fetch the intrepid binary or build it themselves.
<cjwatson> people can and should of course ignore lintian warnings that don't make sense
<cjwatson> (by which I mean, don't worry about the output, rather than adding overrides)
<cjwatson> it would probably make more sense to do that than to do an SRU
<wgrant> I can't see any sense in SRUing it.
<cjwatson> ffm: for lintian, it's worth looking in upstream svn, since I have commit access to it (these days, largely for the purpose of keeping the Ubuntu bits up to date)
<cjwatson> ffm: for the record, the most recent patch you attached to the bug is reversed
<ogra> wgrant, many people dont like to use backports, especially if you develop that can get in your way
<ogra> -updates is enabled by defaul though
<ogra> *default
<wgrant> ogra: I guess...
<cjwatson> the problem with -updates for lintian is that, while the only relevant difference might be the release name at first, over time it will likely need other changes
<stgraber> Any of you tried to upload an Intrepid package to a PPA ? Seems to be queued and never built here ... (not big issue, was mainly for test building)
<cjwatson> -backports is likely to be a more practical way to maintain it
<wgrant> stgraber: That's correct.
<wgrant> stgraber: The PPA chroots appear to not be set up yet.
<wgrant> Not surprising, considering how young intrepid is.
<ffm> cjwatson, oh, its backwards isn't it.
<persia> Especially because we often backport an updated lintian a couple times in the cycle, if Russ is feeling productive
<cjwatson> Russ is ALWAYS feeling productive
<cjwatson> it's humbling
<wgrant> Heh.
<cjwatson> urgh, can't face new-source right now
<cjwatson> $ new-source | wc -l
<cjwatson> 626
<cjwatson> has to be correlated against package removal records in hardy just in case, so will take a while
<wgrant> Fun fun fun.
<cjwatson> (I've already seen at least one that was intentionally removed from Ubuntu and not from Debian, but wasn't sync-blacklisted)
<persia> cjwatson: I seem to remember there being a couple cases like that where we thought they'd be OK for intrepid, but not for hardy.  I know ion3 got fixed for hardy, but don't know about the others.
<cjwatson> I can well believe it - needs by-hand processing
<jjt001> hello to all
<jjt001> i'm looking to write a general purpose linux driver
<jjt001> is this the proper channel to ask questions?
<megabyte405> probably not
<jjt001> megabyte405: could you point me to another one?
<megabyte405> might want to google
<megabyte405> you've defined a very large problem space, and it will be hard to provide help without more details
<jjt001> megabyte405: another question...do you know the code i need to gain root access in ubuntu
<megabyte405> sudo
<jjt001> no i mean from my code
<jjt001> not the from the terminal
<megabyte405> you can't escalate your own privs - you either need to ask for a privelege from, say, policykit, or run something through gksudo
<jjt001> right that's what i mean
<jjt001> because my code is going to change printing preferences
<jjt001> also, do you know where i could find the files that contain printing preferences?
<jjt001> ip of the printers, etc.
<megabyte405> you really need to look this stuff up yourself
<megabyte405> please see http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
<jjt001> what is the purpose of this channel?
<jjt001> is this for people working on the ubuntu project itself?
<stgraber> yes
<jjt001> oh, ok
<jjt001> sorry i asked
<jjt001> i mean my other question
#ubuntu-devel 2008-05-04
<sven_> hello, world!
<sven_> (thought it was appropriate)
<tritium> sven_: see /topic
<sven_> tritium: thanks, on my way to motu
 * calc sees interesting rumors of nvidia releasing docs/open source driver
 * calc thinks hell will freeze over before that happens
 * calc has seen nvidia's 'attempts' before ~ 10 years ago
<johanbr> calc: Well, the situation is a bit different now, with the competition already having open specs/drivers.
<wgrant> Nouveau is doing an excellent job even without Nvidia's help.
<johanbr> Yes, but a reverse-engineered driver will always be playing catchup.
<wgrant> This is true.
<calc> johanbr: yea
<calc> johanbr: from what i recall at the time there were open drivers for the competition as well, ati has an on again off again open source strategy
<calc> it looks like now that amd owns them they may stay foss friendly
<calc> and amd's help appears to have convinced intel to release documentation along with their drivers :)
<wgrant> Is there anyone else around other than NVIDIA, ATI and Intel?
<calc> Via, but not really
<Nafallo> sis?
<calc> they claimed to be going foss but phoronix had an interesting article mentioning their foss efforts appear to be binary only drivers
<wgrant> Hahhah SiS.
<calc> SiS is what ~ < 0.01% of the market
 * jdong hugs Nafallo 
<jdong> that was the cheer-up I needed for the long day I've had
<Nafallo> :-)
<calc> SiS has always existed but I have only seen one time
<jdong> calc: the last time I saw them it didn't leave a good impression :)
<wgrant> I've got one SiS chipset here.
<Nafallo> ooh
<Nafallo> I know another one...
<wgrant> For some reason, Compiz decides it's OK to start on it.
<Nafallo> it's m something :-)
<calc> and aiui SiS binary drivers suck so hard it probably wouldn't help to have docs
<wgrant> It works sort of.
<Nafallo> matrox
<wgrant> Hah.
<Nafallo> I think
<calc> i have seen bug reports about SiS can't even do regular 2D right
<wgrant> calc: That's right.
<calc> matrox is all but dead in the market, they have very specific area that they still sell into
<wgrant> What's that? CAD workstations?
<jdong> doom95 gamers.
<calc> wgrant: airports apparently
<calc> wgrant: and financial large number of screens type installs
<calc> not much use for 3d, etc
<wgrant> Ah.
<wgrant> I thought they were for 3D stuff.
<wgrant> A rather niche market, anyway.
<calc> the last time (i know of) that matrox was foss friendly was ~ 1998-2000 timeframe
<calc> back when their video cards were still relevant on the desktop
<calc> some of the first 3d support under linux was for the matrox g200
<calc> looks like they do quad head on one slot without fan
<Nafallo> they are still good for multiscreen setup indeed :-)
<calc> yea
<Nafallo> which I could have a fun setup like that ;-)
<calc> there is also that company XGI
<calc> never seen anything from them though
<calc> doesn't look like they are sold by many companies either
<calc> hmm finally 10GbE over regular copper
<Nafallo> has been around for a while :-)
<calc> Nafallo: not over copper
<Nafallo> yes it have :-)
<calc> eh?
 * calc looks it up
<Nafallo> several months
<calc> says the standard was released in 2006 and intel announced their card on thu (afaict)
<calc> but maybe someone else released cards before that, dunno
<Nafallo> connectix have sold 10GbE solutions for some time :-)
<calc> the only connectix i can find info about is the one that wrote the mac software
<calc> but yes there was 10GbE for a long time, but over fiber, since at least 2002
<Nafallo> http://www.connectix.co.uk/
<Nafallo> :-)
<calc> ok
<calc> of course desktops are barely able to saturate regular GbE currently
<Nafallo> very true
<protonchris> Anybody had any luck getting a intrepid pbuilder chroot going?
<Nafallo> calc: hehe. they've started to think about 40GbE and 100GbE now :-)
<jdong> protonchris: yeah I've got one already
<jdong> you need to use intrepid's debootstrap but otherwise it was a simple matter
<protonchris> Ok.  I thought that the debootstrap for intrepid was backported to hardy.
<jdong> not yet that I know of
<jdong> oh nvm it's there now
<jdong> wasn't there last night yet
<protonchris> It doesn't work for me.  Dies when "Installing core packages"
<protonchris> It runs into trouble with libc6_2.7-10ubuntu3_i386.deb
<wgrant> It's due to a missing dep in debconf, AFAICT.
<protonchris> ok
<illSleepWheniDie> hi all
<illSleepWheniDie> can all the indians here say Here!
<Hobbsee> stgraber: your blog is broken.
<Hobbsee> stgraber: Fatal error: Call to undefined function drupal_submit_form() in /data/www/stgraber.org/www/modules/akismet/akismet.module on line 707
<wgrant> Hobbsee: It *is* PHP...
<Hobbsee> wgrant: this is true
<stgraber> Hobbsee: akismet was broken, I disabled it for now.
<qense> is there an ALSA developer online? Or maintainer :)
<fursund> Hello... In the early alpha-betas of hardy, there was this nifty mount archive - right click in nautilus - tool, do you know where I can download and install that?
<qense> Is there an ALSA maintainer online?
<Hobbsee> stdin: ah, cool
<alex-weej> kernel doesn't boot on a mate's laptop
<alex-weej> i noticed -17 came out recently
<alex-weej> any way to test it with a disc image? do we still make daily cd's after release?
<_MMA_> qense: crimsun will kinda be the guy to talk to. But since it's Sunday I would try back tomorrow. Or at *least* later today. (4 hours or so).
<qense> what package is responsible for managing /proc/acpi/fan?
<Hobbsee> qense: check with dpkg -S ?
<qense> I thought /proc didn't contain files
<stdin> the kernel manages all files in /proc
<qense> ok
<qense> I'm triaging a bug wher fan support disapeared in hardy
<qense> everyting was alright in hardy
<qense> do you think it's a 2.6.24 issue?
<qense> it's filed again acpi-support
<qense> the bug number might help you help me. ;) bug 226422
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 226422 in acpi-support "Laptop gets very hot" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/226422
<johanbr> qense: Yes, that's a kernel issue.
<qense> ok thx I've already changed the package to linux
<johanbr> Is frequency scaling working?
<qense> I haven't asked him yet
<qense> I'll do
<alex-weej> when i plug a DVI cable into my notebook, nothing happens. is something supposed to happen or are we not quite there yet?
<qense> he says the fan is running all time
<hwilde> Driver 'sd' needs updating - please use bus_type methods
<hwilde> Driver 'sr' needs updating - please use bus_type methods
<hwilde> bootup looks good until those errors
<qense> does it actually start or holds it at that point?
<hwilde> hodls
<hwilde> holds
<hwilde> strange part is there is no sd device
<hwilde> I don't even know why it's loading that
<qense> weird
<hwilde> http://pastebin.com/m31bc6bcd   lines 49 & 59
<hwilde> then is just says   sda:
<hwilde> and sits there
<Chipzz> hwilde: errr, you DO know that sd has NOTHING to do with SD cards, do you?
<qense> does /var/log/boot contain anything?
<hwilde> Chipzz, I dunno it's right in line with it looking for sda in the boot messages.  check my pastebin
<hwilde> qense, I dunno it doesn't boot up for me to check the log
<qense> can you access the harddisk at another way?
<Chipzz> hwilde: no interest. just mentioning because you may be seriously mistaken
<Chipzz> sd is a scsi driver
<Chipzz> which in recent (for some value of recent) has started to be used by IDE too
<hwilde> strange I don't have scsi either
<Chipzz> + kernels
<hwilde> oh it does load scsi for the cdrom
<hwilde> hmm it's a hard lockup, ctrl+alt+del doesn't even respond
<Chipzz> not only that
<hwilde> brb
<Chipzz> hwilde: it should also be mentioned that this channel is not for bug-reports. And since this is a kernel bug, that's one more reason not to ask here
<Chipzz> you should, at the very least, ask in #ubuntu-kernel instead of here
<hwilde> well... I wan't intending to submit a bug report
<hwilde> and if it says a driver needs updated, that sounds like development
<hwilde> but thanks for pointing me in the right direction
<Chipzz> it isn't
<Chipzz> but people should be able to help you in #ubuntu-kernel
<Chipzz> if you follow that reasoning, just about everything is "development" ;)
<hwilde> sure but that same logic could be used to say that everything is a kernel issue
<Chipzz> no :)
<Chipzz> it can't :)
<Chipzz> if I write a python program with a bug in it, how is that a kernel bug? :)
<Chipzz> anyway
<hwilde> oh right this isn't gentoo
<Chipzz> make sure to check the bugtracker for similar bugs first
<Chipzz> chances are someone else already reported it
<Chipzz> oh and one more thing
<Chipzz> It's currently weekend. Chances are you will not receive much response on #ubuntu-kernel today
 * hwilde stares at Chipzz 
<Chipzz> yes?
<hwilde> you have been most helpful sir
<hwilde> thank you for the encouragement
<Chipzz> just stating some facts :P
<Chipzz> ubuntu developers like to have the weekend off too ;)
<hwilde> that's why the irc god invented /away mode
<Chipzz> and no need for "sir" ;P
<hwilde> sir yes sir, thank you for correcting my salutations!
<hwilde> hehe
<Chipzz> hwilde: there's also a reason god/irc invented topics. Yet people seem to ignore them on a constant basis :P
<Chipzz> (that was meant as a general comment, not aimed at you ;))
<Chipzz> anyway, good luck with your bug!
<hwilde> actually it finally dropped to busybox
<hwilde> says /dev/hda1 does not exist
<hwilde> so I think it's just coming up under a different name
<Chipzz> hwilde: hrrrm, it should be using UUID's instead of device names
<hwilde> yeah I am trying to make an image that can be cloned to multiple of the same devices
<Chipzz> ouch
<Chipzz> in that case, I suggest you kinda keep a close eye on ubuntu development
<hwilde> I never could figure out why they use UUIDs
<Chipzz> exactly for this reason :)
<Chipzz> when the kernel changed from using ie hda to sda, it wouldn't have mattered
<mjg59> hwilde: Because device node names aren't stable
<qense> what; s the difference between hda and sda>
<Chipzz> qense: the way the kernel sees the device
<Chipzz> hda is an ide device
<Chipzz> sda is a scsi device
<qense> ah
<hwilde> well, how would you make /boot/grub/menu.lst and /etc/fstab work on multiple different devices?   the UUIDs are different but /dev/hda1 used to work.  now it's apparently /dev/sda1
<Chipzz> or an ide device using scsi emulation
<hwilde> but I didn't change it so now the ide is using scsi deriver
<Chipzz> hwilde: well in your case I would make sure to read the release notes between upgrades, if you want to stick with hda/sda instead of UUIDs
<Chipzz> basically, doing that is unsupported, and if you want to do it, you need to take care of it yourself ;)
<ogra> (and no, thats not ubuntu specific, its an pstream kernel change )
<ogra> *upstream
<Chipzz> btw, unsupported does not mean it won't work. it does mean however, that if it breaks, you get to keep both pieces ;)
<ogra> :)
<ogra> > I killed Google and the
<ogra> > Internet stopped being busy.
 * ogra grins about ubuntu-users
<qense> why?
<ogra> see the quote i pasted :)
<qense> well, I think it would make internet even more busy! everyone would have to ask the same question over and over agin
<qense> :d
<ogra> heh, indeed
<qense> #ubuntu would be blown away
<hwilde> you should have seen it when ubottu wasnt there :/
<qense> at peeks #ubuntu is already terrible
<hwilde> depends on how you look at it I guess
<hwilde> we could have no users and no interest... then the channel would be quiet
<qense> true
<jeromeg> jdong: hello
<jeromeg> do you have a few seconds ?
<ogra> hwilde, hey i totally forgot how much fun #ubuntu can be ... thanks for reminding (sadly working for canonical doesnt often leave time for that though)
<cjwatson> protonchris: the intrepid bootstrapping problem is http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=479202; I'm inclined to leave it for a while on the assumption that it'll get fixed in Debian soon and we can just sync it, since intrepid isn't really expected to work at the moment
<ubottu> Debian bug 479202 in perl-base "fields tries to use Hash::Util" [Unknown,Open]
<protonchris> cjwatson: Thanks for the info.  Syncing it sounds like a good idea to me.
<cjwatson> once it's fixed in Debian, that'll happen automatically
<kees> hm, can someone give-back glib2.0 (2.16.3-2) for i386?  I can't reproduce the test failure, so I'm hoping it a timing bug
<kees> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/glib2.0/2.16.3-2
<emgent> heya
<bigon> I'm trying to create an intrepid chroot and I get http://paste.debian.net/2194/ should I report that?
<pitti> kees: kicked
<cjwatson> bigon: intrepid *will* break semi-randomly for some time
<cjwatson> bigon: but in any case that's http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=479202
<ubottu> Debian bug 479202 in perl-base "fields tries to use Hash::Util" [Unknown,Open]
<cjwatson> bigon: for now, either (a) don't be in a rush to create an intrepid chroot :-) or (b) create a hardy chroot and upgrade it
<Kopfgeldjaeger> n8
<TheMuso> crimsun: Note that the sample cachign thing is an esound thing, not a sound card thing.
<crimsun> TheMuso: yes, but there's nothing that would have changed in PA or ESD to issue it.
<TheMuso> True.
<ogra> OMG
<ogra> transmission is surely the worst crap i have ever seen
<LaserJock> uh oh
<ogra> it just deleted about 1G of music i downloaded over the last months
<LaserJock> ouch
#ubuntu-devel 2009-04-27
 * jdong ponders the laziest way to replace this encrypted Hardy netbook image with Jaunty.....
<lifeless> update-manager -d -c
<jdong> lifeless: do you think that will go smoothly from Dell's modified LPIA Harddy port up to Jaunty?
<lifeless> no idea
<lifeless> but it would be fun to find out
<jdong> yeah that was my worry :)
<jdong> regular Hardy, that's what I would've done in a heartbeat
<jdong> ok I'm just not gonna be lazy and download an alternate CD and repack it into a USB.
<mneptok> jdong: you'll do as you are ordered, and like it, soldier!
<jdong> mneptok: wow... either the first heat wave is taking its toll on me or we need to take this conversation into private quarters :D
<mneptok> jdong: let me get my "Ursula, Demon Mistress Of The SS" costume
<jdong> mneptok: my therapist said those only exist in nightmares
<mneptok> jdong: http://cfs7.tistory.com/image/11/tistory/2008/08/05/15/27/4897f2d819627
<pipegeek> I think there may be a bug in the version of kvm that shipped with jaunty (kvm-84).  It's currently very slowly and meticulously hosing a qcow2 image (instead of snapshotting it).  If I find it, I'll submit a bug report.  It looks like there's already a bug report open for a similar problem with the version of qemu-img that shipped with jaunty (352785), and that it was reported nearly a month ago.
<pipegeek> err, s/kvm/kvm-img/
<doctormo> I'd like to create the simplest kind of debian package, one of a binary blob, which only really needs to put some files in the right places.
<StevenK> doctormo: Then your debian/rules contains a bunch of boiler plate and a few calls to cp
<doctormo> StevenK: Yes my next line was going to bem shoudl I use rules or just an install file?
<StevenK> Or mv, if you're feeling particularly evil
<doctormo> because the install file seems to cover this use case too
<lifeless> an install file would be better I think
<StevenK> doctormo: Sounds like a perfect case for debian/install and dh_install, but it is your choice
<jdong> doctormo: IMO install file would be the more "aesthetically pleasing" way of doing it though nothing's wrong with the cp-in-install-target approach either
<lifeless> data driven++
<doctormo> Also, since so many of you are here,
<doctormo> I'm packaging up a binary driver which has a license which allows redistribtion, what's the rules on putting in on my ppa?
<jdong> that's more of a #launchpad question
<doctormo> jdong: aye aye
<doctormo> thanks for your help
<doctormo> Ah, now it's interesting, some of the files are symbolic links, using just the install file, the debuild process just creates copies of the files instead of preserving the links
<jdong> there's a special install.links file or something like that for symlinks IIRC
<doctormo> jdong: do you know of documentation where the format of that file might be available?
<ScottK> man dh_link is a likely place to start.
<LaserJock> doctormo: it's just links or <binary name>.links
<LaserJock> doctormo: but that's to create new links, not preserve old ones
<doctormo> LaserJock: It's ok to create new links, it's just linking a lib to it's versioned versions
<LaserJock> doctormo: hmm, I'd think that should have worked
<doctormo> LaserJock: I still don't know the format of the file debian/links
<LaserJock> source destination
<LaserJock> doctormo: like ln -s just without the ln -s :-)
 * LaserJock just realizes that it's impossible to do a search for "canonical" LP teams :(
<LaserJock> that is, searching for the term "canonical" gives a permission denied
<pitti> Good morning
<pitti> cjwatson, infinity: I uploaded debhelper on Friday, waiting in unapproved now
<dholbach> good morning
<jussi01> err, who wrote the release notes?
<StevenK> Many people
<jussi01> perhaps we should suggest using "gksudo gedit" instead of "sudo gedit" ?
<liw> why?
<jussi01> !gksudo
<ubottu> If you need to run graphical applications as root, use Â« gksudo Â», as it will set up the environment more appropriately. Never just use "sudo"! (See http://psychocats.net/ubuntu/graphicalsudo to know why)
<liw> "sudo gedit" seems to work for me (I had nothing to do with the release notes, though)
<jussi01> liw: it works, but isnt the right way to do it. (read the link there)
<jussi01> brb
<geofft> out of curiosity, does 'sudo -H' solve these issues? (i.e., does gksudo just happen to do what -H does, by default?)
<liw> sudo seems to preserve HOME already
<liw> I have nothing against people recommending gksudo instead of sudo for GUI apps, but as long as sudo works perfectly fine, except for a couple of broken apps, I'm not sure I care much :)
<geofft> right, -H means to set HOME=/root
<geofft> $ sudo env | grep HOME     HOME=/home/geofft
<geofft> The issues that web page discusses seem to be caused when root creates files in your homedir
<liw> few GUI programs should be run as root (firefox certainly not)
<geofft> Apparently screen's initscript cleans sessions I started at the emergency password prompt.
<geofft> Where on the "bug" to "you're doing something weird, stop it" scale is that?
<liw> "obviously a bug"
<liw> /tmp cleaning might have similar issues
<directhex> it looks like i need an SRU after all.
<dholbach> asac: thanks for signing up for a Packaging Training session :)
<asac> dholbach: welcome
<jussi01> sorry, had to disappear for a while there - work ftw!
<jussi01> liw: My issue is we have always had the recommendation for using gksudo as put forward in that factoid. If we are going to have that there, does it not come across silly to do the contrary on the release notes?
<liw> jussi01, I don't know. Since plain sudo works for all relevant apps, I'm personally fine with having it in the release notes, but if you would like it fixed, suggest it to the release notes people (or edit the wiki)
<dholbach> bryce, tjaalton: does bug 352708 need any more info to make it more useful?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 352708 in xserver-xorg-video-intel "[i915] external screen stays dark after suspend/resume via lid" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/352708
<slangasek> jussi01, liw: FWIW, this was discussed and we're using 'sudo' for consistency, so please don't edit the wiki until you've persuaded the release team why this is wrong :)
<jussi01> slangasek: exactly the reason I hadnt edited it yet. thanks for clarifying
 * slangasek looks in dismay at the set of upgrade bugs at https://bugs.launchpad.net/~milkthemilk
<slangasek> I don't think that user's system is coming back
<StevenK> The description in #366326 is fairly tasty
<pitti> ScottK, slangasek: sru-accept updated to add missing space to bug comment, FYI
<slangasek> pitti: ah yes, thanks
<pitti> NCommander: so, I set up an apport retracer on rimu for armel, but I get timeouts from LP
<pitti> seb128: ^ (FYI)
<seb128> pitti: ok
 * pitti blames firewall rules
<ogra> pitti, doesnt matter, armel has no bugs anyway :P
<pitti> ogra: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=need-armel-retrace :)
<ogra> its the totally bugfree arch :)
<ogra> lies all lies !
<directhex> sabdfl, a word of advice? mail from roy schestowitz -> /dev/null. the guy's a compulsive liar.
<pitti> ogra: got an Android G1 last week, so now I have arm in the house as well ;)
<ogra> pitti, none we support though ...
<pitti> ogra: we need to change that!
<ogra> pitti, we likely do but in the other direction ...
 * amitk hides his android ports tree
<pitti> ogra: (just kidding)
<ogra> karmic migth only support armv7
<ogra> which pretty much makes us lose all community
<pitti> :(
<ogra> yeah
<geofft> where should I report HTTPS on brainstorm.ubuntu.com being broken?
<directhex> i'd start a brainstorm vote on it. options include "ignore it" and "fix it". i'd totally vote up the "fix it" option though
<geofft> hahaha
<geofft>  SSL received a record that exceeded the maximum permissible length. (Error code: ssl_error_rx_record_too_long)
<directhex> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ideatorrent/ i think
<Hobbsee> there's #ubuntu-brainstorm as well, fwiw
<geofft> ah, thanks
<ScottK> pitti: Thanks.
<ScottK> pitti: I need to do another clamav SRU I think rather urgently for Bug #365823 - I was hoping you'd be willing to accept the one that's currenlty pending and verified first.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 365823 in clamav "clamav-milter chowns root directory" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/365823
<Ampelbein> ScottK: i attached a new debdiff to bug 351017
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 351017 in mjpegtools "[SRU] mpeg2enc crashes with SIGILL on non-p4 architectures." [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/351017
<pitti> ScottK: 'accept first' -> move to -updates before accepting another SRU?
<ScottK> Ampelbein: I'm not in a position to sponsor it right now, I'd approach the person that sponsored the last upload.
<ScottK> pitti: Yes.
<pitti> ScottK: or is your new upload fixing something that got broken in the previous SRU?
<Ampelbein> ok
<ScottK> pitti: No, I confirmed the problem exists in -release too.
<pitti> ScottK: no problem from my side
<ScottK> Great.  I'll have the new on uploaded shortly.
<pitti> ScottK: the intrepid SRU isn't verified yet, though, so I only copy the jaunty one
<ScottK> Correct.
<ScottK> This new bug is only for Jaunty anyway.
<pitti> copied to j-u and karmic
<ScottK> Thanks.
<ScottK> pitti: clamav uploaded to jaunty-proposed again.  The test case is also being written.
<Keybuk> pitti: could you push your udev changes somewhere?
<Keybuk> lp:~ubuntu-core-dev/udev/ubuntu-jaunty maybe?
<pitti> Keybuk: oh, sure
<seb128> evand: hi, do you need any extra info on this usb key usb-creator bug?
<seb128> evand: I will probably format the key or something so I can use it
<evand> seb128: no, I have enough.  Please do go ahead and format the key.
<seb128> evand: ok thanks
<pitti> Keybuk: done, lp:~ubuntu-core-dev/udev/jaunty (btw, you might want to consider to upgrade --1.6 for go-faster stripes)
<Keybuk> pitti: but I only have bzr 1.13 ?
<pitti> Keybuk: it's just the format version (there's an --1.9 too :) )
<Keybuk> pitti: what I mean is that's the version I init'd with
<Keybuk> so surely that's the latest format?
<pitti> for some reason unknown to me it's not the default
<pitti> perhaps to keep it compatible with some ancient dapper bzr or so
<Keybuk> *blink*
<Keybuk> so what format are we supposed to be using?
<pitti> I don't think we are "supposed" to any
<Keybuk> and how are we supposed to make an informed decision?
<pitti> I just converted mine to 1.6, so did a lot of other people
<slangasek> 'bzr help formats'
<pitti> to make use of stacked branches and much faster pushes/commits
<Keybuk> slangasek: that says "use the default format"
<pitti> Keybuk: it's not an error to use the default one, I just wanted to mention that a newer one might particularly benefit udev, with its throusands of commits
<Keybuk> pitti: the bzr repository is converted from git
<Keybuk> so I don't really want to muck around, since it breaks pretty much monthly anyway
<Keybuk> and I have to push --overwrite it
<pitti> ugh
<pitti> Keybuk: I recently tried to get bzr-git working, but it failed spectacularly; did you manage to get this to work?
 * Keybuk just works on udev in git
<Keybuk> pitti: nope, I'm just fast export | fast import
<pitti> ah
<Keybuk> I started off trying to work in bzr, with a branch based off git
<Keybuk> but I repeatedly suffered from that age-old problem where I needed to know what git was doing, and what bzr-git was doing, in order to use bzr
<Keybuk> so it was more effort
<Keybuk> so I reverted to just using git, with the packaging in bzr
<pitti> I just use git for importing postgresql as well
<Keybuk> for util-linux-ng, the packaging is in git too
<mvo> I'm considering doing the same for compiz
<pitti> Keybuk: any idea why https://merges.ubuntu.com/main.html still considers most merges as "updated"?
<Keybuk> pitti: MoM is still running
<Keybuk> it hasn't got as far as updating the web pages yet
<pitti> ah, so it'll fix itself then?
<pitti> thanks
<Keybuk> did I not understand that we weren't to use MoM for the merge this time anyway?
<pitti> oh, we aren't?
<Keybuk> cjwatson: ?
<Keybuk> Mark was saying we were to use bzr and james_w's imports?
<pitti> OIC
<pitti> did I miss an announcement for that?
<ogra> Keybuk, damned and i was hoping we actually did such a good job with upstreaming stuff that we only had 52 updated packages :P
<cjwatson> james_w's imports aren't quite going to make it for the start of the merge, unfortunately, but will hopefully be available by part-way through (before UDS)
<pitti> ogra: remember that in jaunty, debian was still in freeze
<ogra> yeah
<ogra> scary ...
<pitti> most of my patches forwarded to Debian weren't applied then
<cjwatson> they need a bit of rejiggering to have the right ancestry relative to Debian, and to upgrade to a new branch format per the Bazaar team
<pitti> and many still aren't :( (but many were)
<ScottK> I seem to have fallen out of favor with ubuntu-devel-discuss (just had a post moderated and it looks to me like I sent from the correct address).  I'd appreciate it if some list admin would have a look ....
<slangasek> pitti: could you comment on the correctness of the patch in bug #366119?  (cf. my comments about invoking hal vs. pm-suspend)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 366119 in acpi-support "Prefer HAL when suspending/hibernating ourselves" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/366119
<pitti> slangasek: gosh, I thought we entirely got rid of acpi-support suspend quirks in jaunty
<slangasek> well, we've gotten rid of the quirks
<slangasek> but not eliminated all the cases where acpi-support will bypass pm-utils
 * pitti reads the completl bug trail first
 * slangasek shakes his fist at gdm
<pitti> slangasek: replied and subscribed
<pitti> cody-somerville: do you still need cdbs' xfce.mk?
<pitti> cody-somerville: last merge log said it's being phased out
<cody-somerville> pitti, We do not use it anymore however I'm wondering about how the archive reorg will affect that
<pitti> cody-somerville: what does the reorg have to do with it?
<cody-somerville> translations
<cody-somerville> Currently only main get the magic translation love
<mr_pouit> pitti: I filed a bug report long ago asking for its removal
<pitti> mr_pouit: oh
<pitti> ah, bug 254048
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 254048 in cdbs "Please drop xfce.mk" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/254048
<cody-somerville> mr_pouit, Do you think its a possibility we might use it again if we get the translation magic stuff back with the archive reorg?
<pitti> but then you could just as well include langpack.mk
<mr_pouit> cody-somerville: no, I would prefer to stick with upstream translations
<cody-somerville> mr_pouit, okay.
<superm1> cody-somerville, with archive reorg, universe and multiverse are getting translated too then?
<cody-somerville> I dunno
<cody-somerville> Thats what I was wondering
<superm1> won't that make the lang packs too big for DVDs?
<superm1> well should the first phases of archive reorg be happening during the karmic cycle then, or still in planning mode and (karmic +x)?
<cjwatson> superm1: we'll only be doing the permissions reorganisation in the karmic cycle. Once we do the more sweeping component reorganisation (still in planning mode and so only "later"), we'll be able to have finer-grained control over language pack generation, so we'll be able to say "Ubuntu desktop", "Kubuntu", etc. rather than "main".
<cjwatson> superm1: I don't think we'll be putting universe and multiverse in language packs, no
<superm1> cjwatson, ah i see.  that makes much more sense
<slangasek> Riddell: follow-ups on bug #339313 point out that the release notes only mention problems with WPA2, whereas users are reporting that plasma-widget-network-manager also has problems with WEP; can you confirm, and do you know if anything more should be added to the RN besides s/WPA2/& and WEP/?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 339313 in ubuntu-release-notes "Kubuntu Jaunty: Cannot Connect To Wireless Network with WEP shared key" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/339313
<Riddell> slangasek: I've not heard of it being broken with WEP, but that doesn't mean to say it never is
<Riddell> slangasek: I'll look into it
<liw> evand, are you planning to add a "remaining time estimate" to usb-creator?
<evand> liw: I am now :)
<liw> evand, I'm wanting to write a little Python library to do the actual estimation, would you like to include that? :)
<evand> surely
<slangasek> Riddell: ok, thanks
<liw> cool, I'll hit you with a patch some day soon
<liw> evand, hmm, also, usb-creator seems to be really, really slow on this laptop/with this usb stick
<evand> liw: significantly slower than using dd directly?
<liw> evand, it's been running for half an hour now...
<liw> or something like that
 * Keybuk actually LOLs at the "Paging Jeff Waugh" on Planet GNOME
<evand> liw: What size persistence file did you create?
<liw> evand, um, the default -- 128 mb?
<evand> very odd
<evand> Did it crash?  (~/.usb-creator.log)
<liw> evand, correction, it's been running for one hour
<liw> evand, hasn't crashed, and occasionally it progresses a bit
<liw> perhaps it's a crappy usb stick, I'll try with another (on another computer, though, so lots of things will change)
<liw> how big a stick do I need, anyway?
<evand> anything larger than 700MB should work
<liw> evand, hmm, on the other machine, with another stick, usb-creator already finished; I've had trouble with Transcend sticks before, so I'll stick with the theory that that's the problem
<evand> ok
<evand> thanks for the heads up anyway
<ogra> liw, on a sidenote, usb 1.1 vs 2.0 issue ?
<mdz> ara:  http://qa.ubuntu.com/ says "ubuntu brainstorm" :-)
<ion_> Cool, the legacy lcdfilter started working again in jaunty after updating. Iâm unable to find any mention of it in the changelogs. When it broke (a couple of weeks ago, i think), i didnât find anything in the changelogs either.
<liw> ogra, remind me how I verify?
<ara> mdz: yes. it said that a long long time ago. schwuk is working in a new landing page
<ogra> liw, hmm, good question :) dmesg might be able to tell something ... i used to check with lsmod in the past but nowadays i think we compile in the usb host drivers
<dholbach> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek starting in 18 minutes on #ubuntu-classroom
<ogra> dholbach, will there be canapes, tea and coffee ?
<liw> ogra, alas, I see nothing obvious in the output of lsusb or dmesg
<dholbach> ogra: sure :-)
<ogra> liw, i have one of these cheap intel give away usb hubs here that switch the connection to 1.1 *behind* the port with no indication at all ... writing a 2G stick with that thing easily takes 2h for me
<liw> evand, usb-creator still wants a desktop ISO, right?
<mdz> liw: I believe it accepts server, alternate and DVD as well
<evand> indeed, what mdz said
<liw> excellent
<pitti> slangasek, cjwatson: cdbs merged, tested, uploaded; *ugh*
<mnemo> pitti: I've been asking a lot of people to run apport-collect lately and it seems that this script itself actually crashes for a significant number of users --> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/apport/+bug/368004
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 368004 in apport "apport-collect crashes when ran under certain locales" [Undecided,New]
<mnemo> pitti: within the hour I had two such crashes and this makes triage of all the xorg bugs pretty difficult
<Keybuk> 418 outstanding merges
<Keybuk> 2 updated merges
<Keybuk> eep
<pitti> yay lenny release
<seb128> karmic is going to be "fun"
 * ogra wonders if seb128 has that as IRC macro anywhere ... you seem to say that sentence every time the archive opens :P
<highvoltage> heh, how so?
<seb128> ogra: every cycle you mean?
<ogra> yeah :)
<ogra> its a traditional thing, isnt it ? :)
<seb128> I probably didn't for jaunty
<seb128> that was quiet cycle
<directhex> not for me
<seb128> but karmic seems to shape to be crazy
<ogra> yeah, compared to whats ahead :)
<directhex> jaunty was ke-raaazy for some of us
<seb128> directhex: I didn't say it was not busy
<seb128> directhex: but we didn't land thousand of new packages or any major refactoring in upstream code
 * ogra notices that jaunty was one of his busiest ... thanks to ARM
<directhex> lenny freeze didn't help
<seb128> I found it helpful to have a bug fix cycle
<seb128> we got bug fixes updates and not thousand of new versions
<directhex> ogra, and the intersection of our work? http://www2.apebox.org/wordpress/wp-content/gallery/00-single/armless.png ;)
<ogra> heh
<directhex> seb128, on the subject of bug fixes, how do you feel about bug 367810?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 367810 in mono-tools "monodoc-browser: Only GtkHtml renderer included; unusable on dark GTK+ themes" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/367810
<directhex> wait, trust me to pick the one archive admin who isn't in the SRU team -_-
<ScottK> There's more than one.
<directhex> okay, one of the ten, then.
<pitti> cjwatson, slangasek: I took the liberty to accept cdbs myself, since we previously talked about it
<cjwatson> pitti: np
<cjwatson> anyone know of a sync request they need to do anyway for which bug 246307 would fire?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 246307 in ubuntu-dev-tools "OOPS when e-mail sent to Launchpad has incorrect encoding" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/246307
<cjwatson> i.e. the Debian changelog delta contains non-ASCII characters
<cjwatson> if you do, I'd appreciate if you could try http://paste.ubuntu.com/159460/
<pitti> mnemo: thanks, I'll take a look at it and followup in the bug
 * hyperair grumbles about jaunty not using 1GB of RAM, and swapping too damn much
<Adri2000> mvo_: can you take a look at bug #338419 please? why does it want to install filezilla-locales (which doesn't exist anymore by the way) instead of filezilla?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 338419 in filezilla "Filezilla fails to install " [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/338419
<mvo_> Adri2000: thanks, will do (but tomorrow morning)
<chieh> Hello, If i wrote an app I would like to add into the ubuntu repository, how do I go about doing it?
<johnm> chieh: you can easily get your own launchpad ppa to begin with :)
<chieh> i'm not sure what you mean?
<chieh> oh i found a site on it
<chieh> but is there a way to incoporate it with ubuntu apt-get?
<maxb> chieh: Hop over to #ubuntu-motu for new package contributions
<chieh> ok, thanks
<shaya> unsure where to file a bug for cpu governor choice.  i.e. I think if a laptop (or a desktop) is plugged in, there's no reason to use the ondemand governor, and one ends up with a degraded experience by using it.
<shaya> any ideas?
<Commander1024> heyho, found a bug in ubuntu 8.04 LTS stable 32bit (at least)
<Commander1024> where shall I report that?
<Commander1024> package: openvpn
<Commander1024> file /etc/init.d/openvpn line 58
<ion_> http://launchpad.net/
<Commander1024> hmm, registration requred :-( well I'll file it there -.-
<ion_> Yeah, Launchpad isnât an OpenID consumer yet. :-(
<Commander1024> just mentioned, that I already got an account because of earlier incidents so I should have remembered launchpad -.-
<Commander1024> just found out ...
<Commander1024> filed as Bug #368141
<ubottu> Error: Could not parse data returned by Launchpad: timed out (https://launchpad.net/bugs/368141/+text)
<olmari> Hello
<olmari> There is small problem when installing new ubuntu 9.04 trough "netboot" or mini.iso
<olmari> culprit is AFAIK package libmbca0
<cjwatson> olmari: it would help if you said *what* the problem was - but really, bugs like this are better reported in Launchpad
<olmari> I'll try to be short: if I choose only to install most basic CLI system and then spt-ge install ubuntu-desktop, it downloads everyfile, apparently libmbca0 last, then there reads [99% working] and it sits there forever
<cjwatson> that's not libmbca0's fault
<cjwatson> that's a rarely-reproducible bug in apt
<olmari> hmm
<cjwatson> every so often, the http method gets stuck right at the end
<cjwatson> if you try it again, it'll probably work
<olmari> nope
<olmari> tried 3 times allways same file / spot
<cjwatson> unfortunately we've never quite managed to track it down, because (at least on the systems we've tried) it doesn't happen every time
<cjwatson> mvo would probably like to work with you on it, but he's not around right now
<olmari> ok
<cjwatson> please file a bug on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/apt/+filebug in the meantime
<cjwatson> mention that I sent you
<PatrickBic> hi
<PatrickBic> my old code (which worked in ubuntu8.10) still compiles but crashes on execution => http://pastebin.be/18092 ... is this usual/wanted/subject-to-change?
<PatrickBic> concerning libnotifymm
<olmari> if it does matter anything, I managed to install mine ubuntu by choosing ubuntu-desktop in installer, then when it "jams" I press esc and then choose form main menu "select packages to install" or to that effect, ubuntu-desktop was selecer already, then chose next and it started to install straight on :)
<olmari> but I'll ofcourse do the bugreport too
<cjwatson> olmari: right, that would work around it because it doesn't need to use the http method at all the second time round
<olmari> cjwatson: well it apparetnly didn't download anything the second time as everything was on the comp already, including that lib
<olmari> cjwatson: if that also matter
<cjwatson> olmari: that's a restatement of what I just said, yes :-)
<cjwatson> olmari: it doesn't matter
<olmari> cjwatson: well I'm not native english speaker so you have to just bear me ;)
<cjwatson> the problem you're encountering is specific to downloading stuff, so if apt-get doesn't have to download anything because it's all cached locally then that won't hit the problem
<olmari> cjwatson: so the problem is in the apt download, it finishes downloading but not the process, I assume :)
<olmari> now in retrospect
<cjwatson> right
<cjwatson> we encounter it from time to time in our live filesystem builds, but unfortunately only occasionally (once every week or two)
<cjwatson> the symptoms suggest a race condition, so it could well depend on e.g. relative speed of your CPU and network connection, or things like that
<Commander1024> cjwatson: considering your fist problem (http download with apt) do you have an nforce board with integrated "hardware" firewall?
<olmari> hmm... I hope I could reproduce the bug when/if someone want's to try squash it... as I said it happened exact same spot each 3 times until I figured a way to finish installation (without do old ubuntu)
<cjwatson> Commander1024: firstly, it's not my problem; secondly, it's vanishingly unlikely to be specific to certain motherboards. We've seen it on a variety of systems. It's almost certainly an apt bug
<olmari> Commander1024: The problem is with ME this time, I have ibm t42p laptop, it is all intel stuff
<cjwatson> it's very rare for problems above the level of the kernel and X (i.e. stuff that talks to the hardware directly) to be hardware-specific, and it should not normally be the first assumption
<Commander1024> hmm, was just an idea, I am maintaining over 40 servers and workstations with debian / ubuntu and I have never seen such behaviour
<cjwatson> it displays all the symptoms of a race condition. Race conditions are like this. Some people will see them all the time, some people will see them occasionally, some people will never see them.
<cjwatson> it makes them very frustrating to debug
<cjwatson> they also tend to go away when you try to apply debugging tools to them
<Commander1024> that's right, it's just that this "nforce firewall thingy" created crippeled and wasted downloads of any kind
<olmari> I can imagine... again I haven't even seen this problem before but for this one it was a constant
<cjwatson> that's not the problem then.
<Commander1024> k, got that
<cjwatson> if the download were just corrupt, then apt would fail with an error message; it wouldn't just sit there forever.
<cjwatson> (and if it did sit there forever, then that would *still* be an apt bug ...)
 * cjwatson fixes rmadison to know about karmic
<Adri2000> I wonder why we do not have a file somewhere with the list of known releases so that all the programs who need it can just use that file instead of managing their own list
<olmari> cjwatson: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/apt/+bug/368178 if interested :)
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 368178 in apt "apt doesn't finish downloading files on 9.04 mini.iso installation" [Undecided,New]
<doctormo> Is there a way to re-set home after of while someone is logging in?
<doctormo> I'm trying to create a useful way to use usb-pam while allowing the user's home directory (thus files and settings) to be safely stored on the usb stick too.
<jablko> where is cron job output sent by default in ubuntu?
<ion_> To the appropriate user via /usr/sbin/sendmail probably. Now please read the topic.
<EagleScreen> what is the difference between ubuntu-laptop-mode y laptop-mode-tools packages?
#ubuntu-devel 2009-04-28
 * calc hopes he didn't damage his car tonight, had to drive through water :\
<ebroder> Hmm...I didn't realize I wasn't joined. Sorry
<jtholmes> popey, are you still around
<jtholmes> popey i have a question about screencasts
<nhandler> jtholmes: popey is probably sleeping right now. I would suggest either sending him an email or /msg, or trying to contact him tomorrow
<jtholmes> nhandler, ok thx not important tonight
<LaserJock> does anybody happen to know if it'd be possible to promote packages in Jaunty?
<slangasek> it's not, no
<LaserJock> figured, just thought I'd ask
<slangasek> once the release is done, no changes are made to the release pocket; and promoting a package in the -updates pocket would just be confusing
<LaserJock> I've got a regression and I don't know how to fix it otherwise
<LaserJock> I wouldn't think "we're SRU'ing a copy of a lib into Main" would fly
<slangasek> generally not
<slangasek> what's the regression?
<LaserJock> bug #359517
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 359517 in kdeedu "kstars does not support indi" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/359517
<LaserJock> the new upstream release of indi got new package names, but kstars wasn't transitioned
<LaserJock> but apparently building with the old indi doesn't give the desired result
<LaserJock> so I guess the task would be to figure out how to get kstars to work properly with the older version
<ScottK> LaserJock: That or 'fix' it in -backports where nothing cares about Main/Universe
<ScottK> That'll cause other problems though
<ScottK> Good night.
 * ScottK heads to bed.
<LaserJock> night
<ScottK> LaserJock: Would you please ping me?
<LaserJock> ScottK: ping
<ScottK> LaserJock: Thanks.
 * calc gone to bed too
<LaserJock> what is the general opinion of using PPAs for this sort of thing?
<LaserJock> i.e. either temporary fixes of fixes that can't make it into -updates for whatever reason?
<LaserJock> s/of/or/
<wgrant> LaserJock: PPAs aren't such pure evil now that they're signed, and there are quite a few semi-official ones.
<LaserJock> I wonder if I could put a easy fix kstars in ~edubuntu-dev PPA and put it on edubuntu.org as a workaround
<LaserJock> *an
<pitti> Good morning
<dholbach> good morning
<geser> good morning
<Keybuk> mvo: interesting, update-manager popped up this morning and its lists were out of date
<dholbach> ArneGoetje: how does bug 241904 look to you?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 241904 in language-selector "[Hardy] Single quote prevents synaptic from running in language-selector" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/241904
<mvo> Keybuk: oh? how much out of date? what do the timestamps in /var/lib/apt/periodic/update-success-stamp look like?
<pitti> oh, is karmic now open for development?
<Keybuk> mvo: I installed updates yesterday
<Keybuk> today update-manager shows the same updates until I click Check
<dholbach> pitti: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/karmic says "Active Development" and not "Pre-Release Freeze" anymore
<pitti> \o/
<dholbach> I didn't see an announce either though
<pitti> I flush the karmic unapproved queue then
<pitti> I saw people doing uploads, so that should be okay
<pitti> slangasek, cjwatson: ^ FYI
<pitti> time to upload crack!
 * pitti uploads new hal
<slangasek> pitti: yah, I got to step 22, hadn't gotten any farther yet :)
<slangasek> pitti: perhaps you could write a quick mail to u-d-a?
<pitti> slangasek: will do
<Keybuk> pitti: does new hal use libvolume-id or libblkid?
<pitti> Keybuk: volume-id
<pitti> it hasn't really changed a lot in ages
<pitti> I'm going to package DK-disks soon
<Keybuk> *nods*
 * Keybuk peeks at the incoming crazy crack
<Keybuk> +config DEVTMPFS
<Keybuk> +       string "Create a kernel maintained /dev tmpfs (EXPERIMENTAL)"
<Keybuk> +       depends on HOTPLUG
<pitti> slangasek: done (shamelessly stolen from jaunty announcement)
<Keybuk> udev and devfs had a lovechild!
<slangasek> \o/
* slangasek changed the topic of #ubuntu-devel to: Archive: open for development! | Ubuntu 9.04 released! | Development of Ubuntu (not support, not app development on Ubuntu) | #ubuntu for support and general discussion for dapper-intrepid | #ubuntu-motu for getting involved in development | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment | See #ubuntu-bugs for http://wiki.ubuntu.com/HelpingWithBugs
<slangasek> Keybuk: isn't devfs udev's uncle? :P
<Keybuk> slangasek: devfs was a very bad uncle
<Keybuk> it liked udev to play special games in the bath
<slangasek> I have high hopes for their offspring
<Keybuk> slangasek: the basic idea being that the kernel has a tmpfs internally, and it mknods in there as it makes entries in sysfs
<Keybuk> you mount that tmpfs as /dev
<Keybuk> then udev simply adjusts it, e.g. renames or permissions
<slangasek> oh, we're having an actual technical conversation now
<slangasek> :)
<ogra_> Keybuk, how does that work with /dev/console and the other few devices the kernel needs in advance
<Keybuk> ogra_: the kernel doesn't need it?
<ogra_> console ?
<Keybuk> right
<ogra_> hmm, why does it panic then if it has none :P
<slangasek> because init needs it and dies miserably if it's not there
<slangasek> that's not the kernel's fault
<Keybuk> I think you're confusing the lack of a console and the lack of /dev/console
<ogra_> oh, yeah, i do
<Keybuk> the devtmpfs idea is intended to solve the "device nodes before udev is started" problem
<ogra_> right
<ogra_> i understood that but was wondering about /.dev
<Keybuk> what's /.dev ?
<ogra_> wasnt there a /.dev in initramfs ?
 * ogra_ is probably a bit behind
<Keybuk> I don't think so
<Keybuk> there's a /dev/.initramfs
<Keybuk> (which can probably be moved to /var/run)
<ogra_> yeah, thats what i mean
<ogra_> hmm, no, looking at it its not what i mean ... whats the pre-populated dir called that has console and a few ttys etc ?
 * ogra_ thought that was /.dev once
<tkamppeter> pitti, hi
<mdz> ogra_: you're thinking of /dev/.static
<mdz> which is the /dev on disk over which the tmpfs is mounted, which has persistent (but potentially wrong) device nodes
<pitti> hey tkamppeter
<tkamppeter> pitti, it is about the SRU bug 357732.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 357732 in cups "cups always prints with the default page size" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/357732
<tkamppeter> I have done a second fix in pstopdf, which fixes the problem of Shaun Crampton, his PPD has the default values directly after the colon of "*Default<option>:", without space, and the current pstopdf does not support this. So I have fixed this upstream now and also in the Debian BZR of CUPS.
<tkamppeter> I wouls like to SRU this, too to make the paper size handling safely work in all situations.
<tkamppeter> pitti, but as the first fix is very urgent, I suggest that you put it into -updates immediately, as it renders printing non-functional for most users, and after that we put the second into -p[roposed.
<pitti> tkamppeter: I agree, since the current patch doesn't cause regressions, it just doesn't fix it for everyone
<pitti> tkamppeter: did you see that the second patch didn't fix it yet for Michael Gefen?
<tkamppeter> pitti, it fixes the problem for 90 %of the users (everyone who does not use the crazy printerr tool which Shaun has used).
<pitti> tkamppeter: right, I mean your followup patch
<tkamppeter> Michael Gefen has another problem. He is once taking a PDF which reaches up to all borders and expects it to appear completely on the printout. With acroread he succeeds as it scales by default but evince does not scale. evince has also a bug that it defaults its paper size to Letter even with an A4 document and an A4 printer (it does so at least for me). So he is running into several evince or GTK Print bugs.
<pitti> okay
<apw> pitti, hey ... bugs tagged regression-potential are presumably now regression-released.  will someone/something do that or do we need to do it manually??
<tkamppeter> pitti, so put the current SRU through ASAP and then we do another SRU for my second fix.
<pitti> apw: hm, I don't know; bdmurray?
<pitti> tkamppeter: copied
<pitti> tkamppeter: sorry, X froze; if you replied to my "cups copied", I lost it
<tkamppeter> pitti, I did not reply to it.
<pitti> tkamppeter: hm, I get a merge conflict when I cherrypick your trunk patch to the jaunty branch; seems that the jaunty sru and the trunk one had slightly different fixes?
<tkamppeter> pitti, I have uploaded my newest version into the trunk.
<pitti> anyway, I take the version from trunk
<pitti> which I believe is what we need
<tkamppeter> You can check by downloading my last pstopdf from the bug and compare.
<ogra> slangasek, do you still take release note entries ?
<pitti> tkamppeter: oh, I see; the jaunty branch had an additional line: if test -n "$pagesize" && test -e "$PPD"; then
<ogra> slangasek, bug 368079 looks like a very good candidate if so ...
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 368079 in ltsp "ltsp-client chroot is missing the python-serial package" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/368079
<pitti> tkamppeter: ok, got it
<pitti> tkamppeter: there's still al large diff between the jaunty and trunk version of pstopdf, but I got the cherrypicking now
<tkamppeter> pitti, are you comparing with the original Jaunty or with the SRUed Jaunty (my first fix).
<pitti> SRUed, current jaunty branch head
<tkamppeter> What we should have is exactly my current pstopdf, the second one which I have uploaded to the bug (be careful, one of the users has also uploaded the intrepid pstopdf to the bug).
<pitti> tkamppeter: http://paste.ubuntu.com/159895/
<pitti> tkamppeter: anyway, I cherrypicked your latest fix, this is it: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/%7Eubuntu-core-dev/cups/jaunty/revision/652
<tkamppeter> pitti, I see the difference, between the two fixes I added support for custom paper sizes, but this is also important, as we got already user complaints with custom paper sizes. So include it with the custom paper size bits.
<pitti> tkamppeter: needs another SRU bug, though, as it's quite an intrusive change
<pitti> or is it related to this bug?
<tkamppeter> pitti, there is another bug where we could offer this as an SRU, one moment.
<tkamppeter> pitti, if you are in the situation of bug 338999. Only this user has printed only PDF files and so not exercised pstopdf. Seems that I have to do a test to see whether the pstopdf change is required.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 338999 in foomatic-filters "Custom PageSize has broken with lp/foo2zjs after upgrade to 8.10" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/338999
<tkamppeter> pitti, I have done a quick test now, if the input file is PostScript, custom page sizes only work with my fix.
<pitti> tkamppeter: as I said, if you think it's a major regression, please prepare the bug for SRU and point to the bzr commit
<pitti> for cherrypicking
<tkamppeter> pitti, this means to report a bug and suggest it for an SRU?
<pitti> tkamppeter: if there isn't an existing bug report for it, it's hardly important enough for an SRU
<tkamppeter> pitti, AFAIR there is no bug on Custom PageSize, seems that because no printing dialog supports Custom PageSize it rarely happens. Seems it is more relevant for the Common Printing Dialog as then we will enter with a feature-complete dialog for the first time ever.
<pitti> tkamppeter: let's not worry about it for SRU then
<tkamppeter> Yes, I keep it as upstream fix and if someone complains about custom page size not working before the CPD arrives I simply attach the current upstream state of pstopdf to his bug report and mark it fixed in Karmic.
<tkamppeter> Otherwise custom page size is really only a subject for the CPD generation.
<pitti> tkamppeter: ok, so I'll upload the space fix to -proposed then
<tkamppeter> pitti, and for Karmic all my changes and fixes are already in. So if you upload CUPS to Debian the sync bot will get it to LKarmic.
<pitti> right
<siretart`> most spectacular bug ever: (IMO) https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/cupsys/+bug/255161/comments/28
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 255161 in cupsys "I am unable to print from open office, I tried reinstalling open office but it did not work. I use a brother mfc240c printer and I am running Hardy. Printing from other apps has not been an issue." [Undecided,Invalid]
<cjwatson> siretart`: that's a fabulous bug
<siretart`> :-)
 * cjwatson targets bug 248619 for a bunch of releases
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 248619 in file "file incorrectly labeled as Erlang JAM file" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/248619
<infinity> That's... An incredibly awesome bug.
<siretart`> yes. Having to ask bug submitters for the day of the week they tried the package is, uhm, funny?
<infinity> Is it wrong that I want to leave it unfixed, just due to the sheer awesome that it embodies?
<siretart`> most funnily, the bug can only be validated tuesdays :-)
<cjwatson> is somebody already taking care of forwarding that bug to Debian? the Debian file maintainer is rather picky, IIRC
<ogra> infinity, dont abuse LP, just put it on t-shirts :)
<infinity> ogra: I didn't mean "unfixed in LP", I literally meant "unfixed"... Which would qualify more as "abusing users" than "abusing LP".
<ogra> lol, oh, then i misunderstood *g*
<infinity> ogra: But it could become a part of Ubuntu certification training.  People would phone up help desks and say "I can't print, HALP!"... And they'd respond with "well, yeah, duh, it's Tuesday."
<ogra> lol
<olmari> X-)
<highvoltage> poor techie who is called out to fix the problem, he struggles all day just to have the client phone him and say "hey don't worry, it's working again!"
<highvoltage> just to have the same thing happen the next week, and again, and again
<directhex> i don't like tuuuuuuuueeeeesdays! tell me why!
<chrisccoulson> directhex - you just spoiled my day - i honestly thought it was wednesday today :(
<ogra> seb128, so i just tried to use my ekiga for the first time since i use jaunty, where is my setup gone ?
<directhex> chrisccoulson, it can't be wednesday, the printers aren't working!
<seb128> ogra: why you don't ask somebody who has touched ekiga once?
<ogra> seb128, oh, who has it ?
<seb128> ogra: I don't use it and never worked on the package so no clue
<seb128> ogra: nobody I think
<seb128> kenvandine_wk did the upgrade
<ogra> ouch
<seb128> and pitti tested with him
<seb128> but there is no official maintainer for it in ubuntu
<ogra> well, ekiga wiping the whole former setup is surely worth a release note
<seb128> it's not the case for everybody
<ogra> pitti, ^^^ did you test with an existing VOIP setup ?
<cjwatson> traditionally we write release notes after understanding the problem :)
<seb128> pitti has been testing upgrades with working accounts
<ogra> weird
<seb128> since he spoted some config not migrated issues and got those fixes
<seb128> got those fixed
<ogra> well, my config wasnt migrated for sure ... and i got autoconnected to ekiga.net
<seb128> that's a bug
<seb128> but that doesn't mean it happens to everybody
<ogra> i havent used ekiga since intrepid though ...
<ogra> which is quite a while ago ... not sure how to track that down now that i started it once
<james_w> Our house used to lose Internet connection when it got warm, it took months for the technicians they sent out to believe me.
<james_w> "yes, it's working fine today because it is cloudy, please come back when it is sunny"
<directhex> james_w, sounds like BT to me ^_^
<james_w> Virgin
<directhex> ew, even worse
<james_w> they are generally pretty good IME, but they just couldn't quite believe it
<kenvandine_wk> seb128: i migrated my old setup
<kenvandine_wk> it just worked
<kenvandine_wk> ogra: what version did you upgrade from?
<ogra> kenvandine_wk, whatever we used in intrepid
<pitti> ogra, seb128: yes, settings migration was something I particularly looked at, since it failed badly for 2.x->3.0 (and thus 3.0 didn't go into intrepid)
<kenvandine_wk> the previous version we had included some patches that handled migration, but 3.2 supposedly didn't need the migration patches, it was built in
<pitti> same here, it worked fine, and I can also create/change existing accounts
<ogra> i cant even do the echo test atm
<pitti> ogra: @ekiga.net service is broken more often than not, though
<pitti> ogra: does it work with the canonical account or any other?
<ogra> no
<kenvandine_wk> ogra: yeah, i can't use ekiga.net most of the time it seems
<ogra> thats what i meant
 * pitti has a diamondcard account which has never failed so far
<ogra> not using ekiga.net here
<pitti> confirmed, @ekiga echo test doesn't work ATM
<pitti> Canonical account works fine
<ogra> hmm
<ogra> seems i'm properly connected to my canonaicl account ... looks more like an issue with the audio settings
<kenvandine_wk> errors i get connecting to ekiga are always server side, i have tried debugging it
<kenvandine_wk> the error is server hungup
<kenvandine_wk> ekiga.net that is
<ogra> yes, as i said before i'm not using ekiga.net
 * ogra wonders where to disable STUN and NAT ... seems the options arent there anymore
<tkamppeter> pitti, are you maintaining the hal package?
<cjwatson> doko: do you have any thoughts on what should be done with the glibc sparc test failure?
<ogra> .oO(throw it at NCommander until it stops failing)
<ogra> he is eager to fix such stuff and has the HW at home
<cjwatson> I care because the last version that built is immediately before we turned off the annoying fwrite warn_unused_result attribute, so anything that stops bothering to take account of that FTBFS on sparc
<cjwatson> NCommander: ^- feel free :-)
<rtg> cjwatson: whats the story on debootstrap and karmic?
<cjwatson> rtg: it works
<cjwatson> as long as you have karmic's debootstrap, anyway
<rtg> cjwatson: ok, maybe I'm just too stupid to find the right version.
<cjwatson> you need 1.0.13
<rtg> jaunty backports, right?
<cjwatson> not yet, but I'll shove it in there now
<ogra> just pull it directly from karmic
<cjwatson> as ogra says
<rtg> doh! ko.
<rtg> ok, even
<cjwatson> it'll be in jaunty-backports in a couple of hours if you prefer
<rtg> cjwatson: thanks
<cjwatson> of course that's not to say that the base system will actually all manage to install correctly, at least once we start syncing the world
<cjwatson> if you're desperate you can debootstrap jaunty and then upgrade the chroot
<doko> cjwatson: hmm, debian does ignore the test on kfreebsd-*, have to turn on the sparc to check.
<rtg> cjwatson: not desperate, but I would like to get the Karmic kernel building using the new toolchain soon. I'll figure it out.
<pitti> tkamppeter: yes, I do
<tkamppeter> pitti, I have moved bug 368553 to you now.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 368553 in hal "[jaunty] [TYPO in script - missing quote] line 81: unexpected EOF while looking for matching `"' /usr/lib/hal/scripts/linux/hal-system-killswitch-get-power-linux: line 84: syntax error: unexpected end of file. " [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/368553
<pitti> tkamppeter: I saw that one
<pitti> I'll get to it
<doko> pitti, cjwatson: please could you demote java-gcj-compat (source & binaries)?
<cr3> what's the wiki page explaining how versions should be named?
<cjwatson> cr3: versions of what?
<cr3> cjwatson: packages, like 1.0-ubuntu1~ppa2 for example
<cjwatson> doko: it's not in component-mismatches, and a bunch of stuff still depends/build-depends on it - you sure?
<cjwatson> cr3: policy manual
<cjwatson> you construct versions by understanding the rules by which they are compared
<doko> cjwatson: gcj-* does provide it
 * cjwatson tries to work out why it hasn't fallen out of c-m then
<cjwatson> doko: should it perhaps just be removed?
<cjwatson> I suspect that as long as it's in the archive it will sometimes end up being chosen in preference to some other package providing it
<cjwatson> mixed real/virtual dependencies are tricky
<doko> cjwatson: ok, removal is fine as well
<doko> maybe block it syncing from debian
<cjwatson> doko: oh, the Provides will have no effect on versioned dependencies
<cjwatson> I think there are a few of those
<doko> cjwatson: yes, known, there are just a few (openjdk, OOo in main)
<cjwatson> the only downside of removal is that it will not be possible to go back to gcj-4.3 if 4.4 fails to build some things
<doko> well, we default to openjdk anyway, so we have another alternative
<cjwatson> mm, right
<doko> and I'm wondering why OOo still uses java-gcj-compat ...
<cjwatson> doko: ok, removed and sync-blacklisted
<cjwatson> we may be able to resurrect it if you find out you need it back
<doko> hope I don't need it ...
<fbond> Hi.  I have an 8.04 machine that locks up after hours or days with an X app running.  I'm trying to pin point the problem so I can file an appropriate bug.  I don't see anything telling in kern.log, the X log, etc.  What can I do to get the system to give me more useful information?
<d1b> hi is ubuntu aware of the sctp poc attack code out ?
<d1b> or should i ask on ubuntu harded ?
<d1b> http://kernelbof.blogspot.com/2009/04/kernel-memory-corruptions-are-not-just.html#comments
<jdong> d1b: cool exploit, but any time kernel memory corruption is present it is not surprising that it is game over.
<pitti> a friend of mine upgraded to jaunty and applauds us for the boot speed; passing on the credit
<jdong> the only crime here seems to be that most vendors (including ourselves) did not accurately portray the extent of the exploit.
<d1b> jdong: i think sctp is not used by the majority of people and shouldn't be compiled by default on desktop systems.
<d1b> the issue is that some one else is going to mod this and post it on another site / just use it so it exploits all platforms no matter the arch /kernel....
<amitk> d1b: sctp is a module
<d1b> where possible...
<jdong> d1b: I don't see sctp enabled on any of my stock Ubuntu systems
<NCommander> Anyone in the mood to sponsor seed changes in karmic?
<NCommander> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-seeds/+bug/368677
<d1b> amitk: good, i didn't check the ubuntu config.
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 368677 in ubuntu-meta "Please change the seeds to make usplash only seeded on arches that support it." [Undecided,New]
<jdong> the user has to enable it himself
<d1b> jdong: so you would need to load a sctp application. i take it
<jdong> d1b: run a SCTP server on the host to be attacked, correct.
<jdong> d1b: of course, my deepest condolences to those who do run SCTP servers on unpatched servers :)
 * jdong is still a bit disappointed there isn't a GUI configurable option for update-notifier behavior
<ogra> jdong, pgtk and glade ;) provide one in a ppa should be less than 10 lines of code
<ogra> *pygtk
<cjwatson> NCommander: why is usplash present on hppa and ia64 in the first place if it doesn't work?
<cjwatson> NCommander: if the package weren't present, then it wouldn't be included in ubuntu-desktop
<cjwatson> germinate-update-metapackage is smart like that
<NCommander> cjwatson, it used to be built on those architectures, but no longer. ubuntu-desktop tries to pull it in via the artwork package (which is installable and has a hard depends)
<ogra> should be a recommends
<infinity> cjwatson: It's not still around...
<infinity> cjwatson: It hasn't been in the archive on those arches since intrepid...
<cjwatson> in that case I don't get why ubuntu-meta's ./update is pulling it in, and want to investigate that, not band-aid around it with seed fixes
<ogra> and actually its not even a recommends on jauntys ubuntu-artwork
<cjwatson> that said, usplash-theme-ubuntu needs to be removed from the archive on those architectures
<ogra> Depends: human-theme (>= 0.14), ubuntu-gdm-themes, ubuntu-wallpapers
<ogra> no usplash at all, i would suspect the artwork package is outdated on these arches
<cjwatson> ogra: I don't think this is remotely relevant here
<NCommander> cjwatson, ogra: heres the output of apt-get install ubuntu-desktop on HPPA http://paste.ubuntu.com/160087/
<NCommander> (it looks similar on ia64)
<cjwatson> NCommander: yes, I know the ubuntu-desktop dependencies are wrong. What I want to know is *why*.
<cjwatson> because germinate-update-metapackage is supposed to filter out nonexistent packages from the dependencies
<ogra> NCommander, right, and no artwork package in there ...
<infinity> cjwatson: If the theme is kicking around, that would explain the why.
<cjwatson> infinity: that would explain it for the theme
<infinity> cjwatson: Since usplash is a direct dependency of the theme, no?
<cjwatson> it doesn't explain why there's a direct Depends: usplash from ubuntu-desktop on ia64, too
<infinity> cjwatson: germinate won't filter out required deps, will it?
<ogra> right, usplash is a direct dep
<cjwatson> sure should
<cjwatson> that's why it bothers to fetch package lists
<cjwatson> packages listed in seeds are only "required" if they actually exist on the architecture being germinated
<NCommander> Is it possible usplash never got removed from disk on those archs?
<cjwatson> it's not on disk now
<NCommander> Oh ...
<cjwatson> it could be that it was only removed after ubuntu-meta was last updated
<MrSunshine_> hmm, befs driver, why isnt that shipped with ubuntu ? ... atleast as a module it hink it should be in there :/
<infinity> cjwatson: Unlikely.  It hasn't been built on hppa/ia64 since 0.5.21, I believe.
<cjwatson> it hasn't been *built*, but we often take a while to get round to ports-architecture NBS removals
<infinity> cjwatson: Yeah.  0.5.21 added the arch restriction.  And that was way back in intrepid.
<infinity> cjwatson: Oh, fair point on the NBS...
<cjwatson> for example intrepid still has the 0.5.20 binaries
<cjwatson> and I'm only just removing all the usplash theme binaries now, even though they can't have built for ages
<infinity> #  Removal requested  on 2009-04-09.
<infinity> # Deleted on 2009-04-09 by Steve Langasek
 * NCommander tests ubuntu-meta
<NCommander> cjwatson, I didn't know that about seeds ignoring packages that didn't exist. Sorry about the noise :-/
<infinity> cjwatson: Last meta was in March, so your guess is probably spot on there.
<cjwatson> http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/testing-ports/karmic_outdate_all.txt is a pretty good demonstration of how bad the arch-specific NBS problem has got
<infinity> cjwatson: Didn't realise the binaries were so recently removed.
<cjwatson> NCommander: it'll be worth giving it a try in about 1.5 hours, when the removal takes effect
<cjwatson> (of usplash-theme-ubuntu)
<cjwatson> infinity: where do you see the removal comment? I had trouble finding it
<NCommander> cjwatson, I'll close the bug and delete the branches, thank you for looking into this; ubuntu-desktop on HPPA is now installable :-)
<infinity> cjwatson: https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/jaunty/hppa/usplash
<cjwatson> NCommander: the ubuntu-meta task is still valid
<cjwatson> I closed the seeds task
<cjwatson> infinity: ah, thanks
<cjwatson> apw: so, bug 251242; do you care if I upload it first to karmic as 20090000-2.0.0ubuntu4, and then SRU to jaunty-proposed as 20090000-2.0.0ubuntu3.1?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 251242 in kexec-tools "Always kexecs on shutdown/reboot" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/251242
<apw> cjwatson, that seems most appropriate
<apw> thanks for looking at that for me
<pitti> cjwatson: why not copy jaunty-proposed to karmic after it built and verified?
<pitti> (that's how I treat the majority of SRUs right now)
<pitti> I mean, toolchain wise it's of course better to upload
<apw> this is a diificult time i guess while we are waiting for the toolchain in karmic to settle down
<cjwatson> apw: err, hang on, I just noticed that debian/kexec-tools.postinst sets an initial value for this
<cjwatson> pitti: *shrug* it's done now :)
<pitti> cjwatson: I just wondered if you generally consider it bad to copy -proposed to karmic
<apw> cjwatson, yeah though it only does that if the file is not present and the file is present as its included in our package
<cjwatson> apw: that said, I don't think that /etc/default/kexec will ever not exist while the postinst is running
<cjwatson> right
<cjwatson> pitti: not especially, but now that the archive is open I'd rather we do separate uploads so that things are built with the new toolchain
<apw> i was assuming that that was coming from debian and not changing it would minimise a merge
<apw> i am happy to correct that one too if its better that way
<cjwatson> apw: I think it's OK as is, as long as people make sure to test both fresh installations and upgrades
<apw> from my reading the upgrade path is to install the default file if its missing, and update the value in whatever file is there based on the odl format file
<apw> so i believe it will do the right thing in those cases, but yes it should be tested
<cjwatson> the whole postinst stuff is rubbish and to be ignored AFAICS
<cjwatson> oh, hmm
<apw> the only bit that looked like it might do something was the copy over of the old value at the end
<apw> but that is independannt of the ensure there is a file part
<cjwatson> no, the postinst does need to be fixed - it's an explicit policy violation and will clobber whatever's in the file with the value stored in debconf
<apw> and that part should be a noop
<cjwatson> I don't think it will be a no-op
<apw> is that was already wrong or will be wrong now
<cjwatson> in fact, its behaviour will depend on whether the package is installed with dpkg -i or with apt-get
 * apw looks at cjwatson in horror
<cjwatson> if dpkg -i is being used, the config script will run at postinst time, and will grab whatever value was set by dpkg's conffile handling
<cjwatson> if apt-get is being used, the config script will run at preconfiguration, before unpacking the new package, and will thus have the effect of resetting the value that was in place beforehand
<cjwatson> at least that's my reading, I haven't tested it
<cjwatson> this is why policy says you MUST NOT mix dpkg conffile handling and maintainer script configuration file handling
<apw> ok so it sounds like its plain wrong before hand.  i think you are saying we should not have a conf file at all here
<apw> and just use the postinst script
<cjwatson> there are two options: support configuration using debconf, or don't ship the file in the .deb
<cjwatson> sorry, that's a misstatement
<cjwatson> the two options are: support configuration using debconf and don't ship the file in the .deb; or ship the file in the .deb and don't support configuration using debconf
<cjwatson> I wouldn't advocate debconf configuration for this if you were starting from scratch since it's so simple, but since it's already there that changes things a bit
<apw> so would i right in saying removing the static file totally and fixing the postinfst would achieve that?
<cjwatson> I believe so, but test that
<apw> cjwatson, thanks for the input... will go do that
<cjwatson> what would you like to happen on upgrades?
<apw> my fealing is you shouldn't change things people have selected already
<cjwatson> my suggestion would be that on upgrade *to this version* we should override user configuration, since we can't tell whether they explicitly chose it or not and we think most people want it off
<apw> so if they have a value we should honour it on upgrade.
<cjwatson> but that future upgrades should not override user configuration
<apw> and how does one tell the difference
<cjwatson> i.e. 'if dpkg --compare-version "$2" lt 20090000-2.0.0ubuntu3.1; then db_set kexec-tools/load_kexec false; fi', probably in the config script
<cjwatson> properly indented of course
<apw> ok thanks ... will go play ...
<cjwatson> sorry, --compare-versions not --compare-version
<cjwatson> debconf-devel(7) describes the arguments passed to the .config script
<cjwatson> the policy manual describes the arguments passed to the .postinst script
<apw> excellent thanks
<andre_pl> where can I find documentation on the notification system?
<mdz> andre_pl: what kind of documentation?
<mdz> andre_pl: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NotifyOSD https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NotificationDevelopmentGuidelines and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NotificationDesignGuidelines are all potentially good starting points
<andre_pl> mdz: i'm trying to figure out why the volume controls are able to appear over top of an mplayer window, but a custom notification that I create wont appear at all
<mdz> andre_pl: if the answer isn't there, try MacSlow
<mdz> though he may be offline for the evening
<andre_pl> mdz: I found it actually, set_urgency(2) does the trick, thanks
<davidbarth> andre_pl: ping? mdz mentioned you had a notification dev. question
<mdz> davidbarth: <andre_pl> mdz: I found it actually, set_urgency(2) does the trick, thanks
<Adri2000> mvo: got time to take a look at my bug?
<davidbarth> andre_pl: ah, too late then; however, be sure to check the guidelines at:
<davidbarth> andre_pl: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NotificationDevelopmentGuidelines
<davidbarth> andre_pl: also, you may want to join #ayatana where the team is discussing n-osd/indicators development
<davidbarth> andre_pl: or join the ayatana mailing list at: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana
<davidbarth> andre_pl: see you there
<andre_pl> davidbarth: thanks!
<james_w> anybody know a command to print all the users in a group?
<elmo> getent group foo
<elmo> ?
<james_w> thanks elmo
<NCommander> We're not doing a mass give-back for karmic like we did for jaunty?
<james_w> NCommander: probably will, but the initial Debian sync is enough of a flood for now I would expect
<devfil> cjwatson: do you know when packages will be "autosynced" from Debian?
<NCommander> so gdb seems to be hosed on HPPA
<NCommander> figures
<cjwatson> devfil: seb128 was going to start that shortly
<seb128> I'm still ;-)
<devfil> ok, thanks :)
<seb128> I'm just waiting in gcj-4.4 as requested by doko
<seb128> it's built on everywhere but armel where it's building
<mvo> Adri2000: what was the bugnumer again?
<Adri2000> mvo: bug #338419
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 338419 in filezilla "Filezilla fails to install " [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/338419
<mvo> Adri2000: thanks, that is indeed a app-install-data bug it seems, let me have a look where that problem comes from
<jdong> jdstrand: wrt bug 331534, hardy is actually affected. /etc/apparmor.d/force-complain's presence will bork out apparmor-utils helpers
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 331534 in apparmor ""force-complain" and "disable" directories breaks aa-genprof" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/331534
<jdong> I think that's worth SRU'ing; I'll prep a debdiff
<mvo> Adri2000: thanks, I updated the bug
<jdstrand> jdong: that is cool. what I was trying to say in the bug was that 'disable' didn't cause a problem in hardy, not that 'force-complain' did not. in other words, hardy is affected by the presence of 'force-complain' and intrepid is by both 'force-complain' and 'disable'
<jdong> jdstrand: ah, understood. I thought you might have overlooked that Hardy was affected by force-complain
<jdong> I stuck a quick debdiff against the latest hardy package if that helps quicken the SRU process
<jdong> oddly within the past week I had two different people whine about this one, so either the apparmor moons are aligning or I'm hanging out with hypochondriacs ;-)
<jdstrand> somehow that slipped by... :/
<jdstrand> I'll get the SRUs going for them
<jdong> thanks, no worries :)
<Adri2000> mvo: ok
<Snova> What is an SRU?
<jdong> !sru
<ubottu> Stable Release Update information is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
<Snova> Ah.
<Snova> So, basically any updates I get from a stable release (I think backports don't count).
<jdong> Snova: correct, for the -updates repository
<EtienneG> hey guys
<EtienneG> I am troubleshooting a bug in the netboot installer, and wants to get the syslog and partman log for a bug report
<EtienneG> any suggestion as to how to get them *out* of the system I am installing?
<EtienneG> there must be a way, but I am baffled
<mathiaz> EtienneG: you can try to scp the files
<EtienneG> mathiaz, yes,, but there is no scp executable in the d-i shell
<mathiaz> EtienneG: from a console, anna-install openssh-client-udeb (IIRC) and then you can scp them
<EtienneG> mathiaz, ha HA!
<EtienneG> thanks a lot
<bigon> mmm I've just seen that in pbuilder python install modules inside site-package by default now
<bigon> right?
<geser> bigon: how were the modules installed during the build?
<cjwatson> EtienneG: or you could go back to the installer main menu and select "save debug logs"
<EtienneG> cjwatson, interesting, I did not knew about that option
<EtienneG> cjwatson, as you are around, I have a quick one
<EtienneG> in a partman-auto/expert_recipe, can you flag more than one partition with $primary{ } ?
<cjwatson> EtienneG: yes
<EtienneG> cjwatson, somehow, it does not work for me
<EtienneG> cjwatson, I will do a bit more test and report a bug if I cannot get it to work
<cjwatson> please do
<cjwatson> I can probably diagnose it easily given the logs
<cjwatson> there are of course the usual constraints on primary partitions
<EtienneG> cjwatson, which log would you need?  partman and syslog?
<cjwatson> error handling might not be very good if you inadvertently violate them
<cjwatson> EtienneG: yes. installer bugs almost never need anything else
<EtienneG> cjwatson, by constraints, you mean the limit of four?
<bigon> geser: the module was installed in site-package directory (so the pkg doesn't FTBFS) but python doesn't find the module at runtime
<cjwatson> and the fact that you can't put logical partitions between primary partitions
<cjwatson> and the fact that if you have any logical partitions the limit is three not four
<EtienneG> cjwatson, yes, of course
<EtienneG> got that
<cjwatson> and quite possibly others I've forgotten :)
<EtienneG> actually, I am trying with only two partition, both primary
 * cjwatson is not the DOS partition table format's biggest fan
<EtienneG> ha, legacy!
<EtienneG> although we are not really bound to it
<cjwatson> I might have screwed up the code in partman-auto for $primary{ }, obviously. I only really implemented it in order to cope with BIOSes that throw their toys out of the pram if there isn't at least one primary partition
<cjwatson> though nowadays partman-auto is smart enough to ensure that there's at least one primary partition without the help of $primary{ }
<Pollywog> I cannot find sane-backends-extras
<Pollywog> anyone know where I can get it?
<dtchen> Pollywog: the source package (which you've named) is in universe. did you install libsane-extras?
<Kangarooo> Hello! I have noticed one thing.. I put ubuntu on one pc and xubuntu on laptop and when really overloaded and start to slow down.. looks strange.. sometimes window looses some graphic.. but I thought why windows has been looking ok even thou programms not so good and more buggy.. and I think that windows before shows anything it loads it completely programms graphic and when loaded grapfic things.. then it show all. .. ubuntu is not doing that.. 
<Kangarooo> if programm is showing only when all graphic is laoded then it gives feeling that programm is running great and smooth :)
#ubuntu-devel 2009-04-29
<cprofitt> slangasek, ping
<slangasek> cprofitt: hi
<cprofitt> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/281732
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 281732 in linux "Mute button on thinkpad x200/x200s" [Medium,Triaged]
<cprofitt> was wondering if there was any more information I could give you... or any guidance you have
<cprofitt> slangasek, did you get that or suffer a netsplit?
<slangasek> cprofitt: fundamentally, these keys are not designed to be handled by userspace at all; I'm told the current behavior parallels the handling of these keys under Windows, and the only way we could improve on the current behavior in jaunty is by exposing the hardware mixer to ALSA.
<cprofitt> slangasek, is it just the mute key... the up / down volume works...
<slangasek> "works"?
<cprofitt> also the mute works on my T61p, T42p and Self Built machine with a Gateway keyboard
<cprofitt> works = OSD display, mixer notification, mute / unmute (for the mute key)
<slangasek> you should not be getting *any* of those things with a Thinkpad under 9.04
<slangasek> because the buttons are hardware buttons, not hotkeys
<cprofitt> on my T500 the volume keys lower / raise the volume, give an OSD display and move the volume control
<cprofitt> slangasek, the up / down volume register in xev, but the mute does not...
<jdong> ooh cool, is that a hardware mute switch then?
<slangasek> have you modified your hotkey handling under /etc?  Because those buttons don't do anything in 9.04.
<slangasek> "don't do anything" -> "don't do any of those things"
<cprofitt> slangasek, no modifications at all
<slangasek> cprofitt: you should first of all open a new bug report, instead of following up to this one, and provide all the information from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Hotkeys/Troubleshooting
<cprofitt> ok
<cprofitt> slangasek, that bug does have all that information in it...
<slangasek> no, it has all the information in it for *someone else's* laptop
<sgallagh> Anyone in here hack on LVM2 support in Ubuntu?
<cprofitt> thanks for your help slangasek I will make another bug with the same description and add the files I already added to the bug I linked you too with the additional information...
<cprofitt> I appreciate your advice...
<slangasek> cprofitt: also, what are the contents of /sys/devices/platform/thinkpad_acpi/hotkey_mask on your system?
<cprofitt> 0x038c7fff
<cprofitt> slangasek, sorry for the delay... wife needed help getting the kids to bed
<slangasek> cprofitt: that does not appear to be the default value in jaunty.  Have you rebooted after upgrading, and do you have all packages fully upgraded?
<cprofitt> I did a fresh install
<slangasek> hmm
<slangasek> cprofitt: a fresh install from jaunty final, or from an earlier milestone?
 * slangasek has a look at the thinkpad_acpi source
<cprofitt> slangasek, final
<slangasek> hmm
<cprofitt> downloaded and installed yesterday
<slangasek> ok; if you can provide info from the troubleshooting guide and point me at the bug, I may have a better idea what's going on here
<slangasek> I don't see anything in the thinkpad_acpi source that explains how this mask would be set by default
<cprofitt> ok -- I have to finish helping my wife with the kids...
<Illuminated> hello
<ScottK> doko: When you said "pysupport-movemodules: Catch files installed in /usr/local." in debian/changelog for python-support did you mean 'catch them and move them to the right place' or 'notice them and fail the build'?  It looks (at a glance) like Debian's python-support is doing the former.
<pitti> Good morning
<twb> Does Ubuntu intend to import Debian's new archive sections (e.g. "haskell")?
<pitti> we already did
<twb> OK, thanks.
<slangasek> geser: did the curl patch to gnupg get submitted to Debian?
<dholbach> good morning
 * pitti hugs dholbach
 * dholbach hugs pitti back
<geser> slangasek: I have to check but I guess not
<geser> slangasek: will forward it to Debian bug 502558
<ubottu> Debian bug 502558 in gnupg "FTBFS: fails to build when either libcurl4-*-dev is installed" [Serious,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/502558
<slangasek> geser: ok, thanks :)
<geser> I'm sometimes a little bis hesistant with forwarding patches where I'm not sure if Debian is affected (or will be affected in future)
<slangasek> understandable
<pitti> StevenK: hildon-fm-l10n was removed from Debian (; abandoned upstream; hildon-fm removed); should we follow suit?
<StevenK> pitti: Yeah, it should die -- can I kill it? :-)
<pitti> StevenK: please have the honor (I skipped it in process-removals)
<apw> cjwatson, ok i believe i have sorted out this kexec-tools thing and tested it with dpkg and apt-get updates ... i presume what i need to do is prepare two debdiffs, one for karmic making ubuntu5 with the new changes, plus a second for jaunty which has both changese as an ubuntu 3.1, or should that be 3.1 and 3.2 in the same split as karmic (which is preferred) hrm
<doko> cjwatson, pitti: demotion time! please demote gcj-4.3, axis, gjdoc, libmx4j-java, wsdl4j (all source). wondering why java-gcj-compat-dev is still in component mismatches
<Pixy> I would like to install xorg-server source code: I try using apt-get source xorg-server but while I launch ./configure the 'X11' package is not found. Any ideas ?
<cjwatson> Pixy: sudo apt-get build-dep xorg-server
<cjwatson> doko: java-gcj-compat-dev is due to hppa, apparently - the removal tool sometimes isn't very helpful when some architectures are at a different version
<cjwatson> I'll clean that up
<doko> cjwatson: are there java-gcj-compat binaries for hppa?
<cjwatson> doko: there was an old one hanging about, version 1.0.56-0ubuntu1
<doko> cjwatson: ohh, can we remove this?
<cjwatson> 10:08 <cjwatson> I'll clean that up
<cjwatson> i.e. I just did
<Pixy> cjwatson: thanks
<doko> thanks
<cjwatson> doko: done all those demotions, thanks
<doko> next target is gcc-4.3 demotion ... still to do: gtkmathview linux-ports gcc-4.3 squashfs glibc openjdk-6
<cjwatson> glibc doesn't matter, we could demote that
<doko> agreed, it's overrated
<doko> looking at eglibc ...
<tkamppeter> pitti, hi
<doko> seb128: could you have a look at gtkmathview?
<asac> Keybuk: in which udev version as /lib/udev/rules.d introduced? is that a packaging thing or upstream?
<pitti> hi tkamppeter
<Keybuk> asac: between intrepid and jaunty
<Keybuk> asac: upstream change
<seb128> doko: what about it?
<asac> k thanks
<doko> seb128: build with GCC-4.4 (not explicitely with 4.3), see debian #504913. I'd like to demote gcc-4.3 early
<ubottu> Debian bug 504913 in gtkmathview "FTBFS with GCC 4.4: missing #include" [Unknown,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/504913
<seb128> doko: ok
<doko> now for an openjdk update ...
<tkamppeter> pitti, can you have a look at bug 352472?  The SpliX package of Jaunty is supposed to upgrade the PPDs of existing queues, but this requires the CUPS daemon to be running. Are there methods to update from Intrepid to Jaunty where the CUPS daemon is not running (like booting a CD into an installer and letting the installer do the update).?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 352472 in splix "[Samsung ML-1610] intrepid->jaunty upgrade causes "format not supported" for existing PPDs" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/352472
 * apw wonders how debdiff decides where to diff against, which version, i had been assuming it was against the previous version in the change log ...
<cjwatson> apw: debdiff takes two packages as arguments, and diffs between them
<cjwatson> it doesn't decide anything, it just does what it's told :)
<apw> and if you are in a directory and do it without arguments?
<cjwatson> apw: oh, for the moment, a karmic diff should be sufficient; we can then backport it to jaunty once we're agreed
<cjwatson>        If no arguments are given, debdiff tries to compare the content of  the
<cjwatson>        current source directory with the last version of the package.
<cjwatson> oh, huh, I never knew that
<apw> cjwatson, i've actually made both and attached them to the bug, but clearly we should only condifer the jaunty one once you are happy in karmic
<cjwatson> apw: it takes the top two entries from the changelog, apparently
<apw> ahh yes, as you'd hope.  i was miss-reading the patch doh
<pitti> tkamppeter: ah, splix doens't depend on cups, just on cups-client
<cjwatson> that's a neat little piece of DWIM
<pitti> tkamppeter: thus it doesn't enforce that cups is configured and running when splix gets configured
<pitti> tkamppeter: thus a mere dependency change might fix that
<tkamppeter> pitti, so I simply need to add "cups" to the Depends?
<pitti> tkamppeter: and remove cups-client, since the client stuff isn't needed for a driver, right?
<pitti> tkamppeter: when I filed the bug I wasn't aware that splix' postinst is already trying to migrate the drivers
<tkamppeter> pitti, the client stuff is needed for the post-install script to do the PPD update/
<pitti> tkamppeter: ah, I see
<tolonuga> in packages using cdbs can I have two doc-base.manual files somehow? (one package with both user documentation and developer documentation) the file format of doc-base seems to be limited to one document...
<tkamppeter> pitti, I have fixed bug 352472 in Karmic now and prepared an SRU for Jaunty, as it has several duplicates.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 352472 in splix "[Samsung ML-1610] intrepid->jaunty upgrade does not upgrade the PPDs of the existing print queues" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/352472
<pitti> tkamppeter: nice, thank you
<tkamppeter> pitti, the SRU is already uploaded, you only need to approve it.
<pitti> kirkland: I can't copy screen-profiles from jaunty-proposed to karmic, since karmic already has a newer version; please fix the three SRU bugs in Karmic ASAP
<cjwatson> map ,br :w<CR>:call system("bzr resolve " . bufname(""))<CR>
<cjwatson> why did I never think to do this before
<Keybuk> cjwatson: resolve on save?
<Keybuk> the number of times I've resolved with <<<< somewhere else in the file would be a good reason not to ;)
<seb128> Out-of-date BUT modified: 906 (5.96%)
<seb128> Updated:                  1554 (10.22%)
<seb128> Ubuntu Specific:          2570 (16.90%)
 * seb128 flushes karmic autosyncs now
<cjwatson> Keybuk: no, just a key sequence to resolve so that I don't have to run 'bzr resolve' separately
<Keybuk> ah
<pitti> go seb128, break the world!
<seb128> pitti: ;-)
<cjwatson> didn't need the buildds anyway
 * Keybuk tries to gingerly pick his way through lamont's util-linux-ng git madness
 * cjwatson gleefully removes relatime from the installer (yay 2.6.30)
<lamont> Keybuk: iz not madness... :p  what's the pain?
<ogra> that its git ?
<lamont> ogra: just like upstream
<Keybuk> lamont: just remembering whether master is based off origin/master or lamont/master - and whether stuff goes in master or ubuntu/master
<ogra> bad enough :)
<lamont> madness is using something different from upstream, unless upstream is using cvs/svn/other-crap
<ogra> indeed
<lamont> Keybuk: yeah - I should really rename master -> debian/master
<lamont> but master is debian, and ubuntu/master is ubuntu's perma-fork
<Keybuk> lamont: how can it be a fork?  we're using the same git branch collection <g>
<lamont> if there's a debian directory, it's not $upstream/master :-)
<lamont> Keybuk: giggle
<Keybuk> and of course, as part of updating ubuntu/master, I first update master for *you* :p
<lamont> Keybuk: and for that, we buy you $beverages in barcelona
<Keybuk> lamont: I just confuse myself because I have first and second level branches in the same repo
<Keybuk> ie. ubuntu/master is based off master, which is based off your master, which is based off karel's master
<Keybuk> but topic/hwclock is based off karel's master
<lamont> Keybuk: that just means you suck at naming branches. :-p
<Keybuk> lamont: it doesn't help, of course, that the debian git repo has the ubuntu package in it too <g>
<Keybuk> cause then I could just call your remote "debian" <g>
<Keybuk> lamont: anyway, master has been updated to include a 2.15-rc2 release
<lamont> Keybuk: but the debian repo is _my_ tree... so of course it has both... why on earth would I want to separate them?
<lamont> that way lies directory-per-branch insanity
<lamont> ah, thaks
<lamont> I'd been planning to do that this weekend
<broonie> You can have multiple remotes in one local repository.
<Keybuk> lamont: well, if you had an ubuntu remote in your tree, you could refer to ubuntu/master ubuntu/stable/v2.14 etc.
<Keybuk> which would be remotely in the ubuntu-published tree as just master stable/v2.14
<Keybuk> and I could have a debian remote in my tree, and could refer to debian/master debian/stable/v2.14 etc.
<Keybuk> which would be master stable/v2.14 in your tree
<Keybuk> and we could both have an origin remote referring to karel's tree
<Keybuk> it would be less ... mad :p
<Keybuk> then it'd be just <ubuntu tree>/master -> <debian tree>/master -> <upstream tree>/master
<lamont> meh
<lamont> but it wouldn't be /usr/local/src/util-linux/util-linux for all of it... :)
<Keybuk> lamont: ah, but it can be that's the point
<Keybuk> your /usr/local/src can have the remotes all added to it
<Keybuk> and you can fetch at will
<Keybuk> but when you push, you just push the debian bits
<Keybuk> just like I do now
<Keybuk> zinc doesn't republish your bits
<Keybuk> but my local tree here has them all
<broonie> man git-remote
<Keybuk> git.debian.org wouldn't be for all of it, sure - but it probably shouldn't be
<seb128> is there any reason why we need gftp in main?
<lamont> git.debian.org is the backup for my tree, at least originally
<lamont> seb128: it matches ^g, so it must be main, no?
<seb128> lamont: right ;-)
<seb128> we could sync it if it was in universe
<seb128> the only diff we have is for language packs
<Keybuk> lamont: maybe one way would be to have a git.debian.org pkg/util-linux or something that's just the published bits of the debian tree, rather than the backup of yours?
<Keybuk> lamont: could I persuade you to take http://kernel.ubuntu.com/git?p=scott/util-linux.git;a=commit;h=dc14ed886d5f47375c5dd63ca4552fc5a00ea3e0 and http://kernel.ubuntu.com/git?p=scott/util-linux.git;a=commit;h=4e2c5d41d370392319f824e15191a9c255475e97 in Debian?
<olmari> Is there any easy way for tftp server to a) not to care letter capitalisation in filenames or b) have some "translation table" for filenames?
<olmari> hmh... 2 channels and I manage to post in wrong one... sorry
<lamont> Keybuk: with out reading them, my gut answer is "for  you, sure"
<lamont> and reading them, sure
<lamont> Keybuk: could you toss me that in email and I'll pick them tonight and upload to debian
 * Keybuk hugs git format-patch
 * Keybuk starts sacrificing random animals to make dpkg-source stop issuing random errors about the diff
<Keybuk> I need a dpkg-source --look-its-from-revision-control-theres-bound-to-be-differences-you-dont-like-lets-just-play-nice-ok
<pitti> Keybuk: I'm curious, what kind of diffs?
<pitti> i. e. anything that -i doesn't filter out?
<Keybuk> pitti: config.sub in the tarball being a file, but automake putting a symlink there
<Keybuk> .gmo changes
<Keybuk> new binary files (OH NOES!)
<pitti> that rather sounds like make distclean being broken, no?
<Keybuk> not really
<Keybuk> auto-* generated files
<Keybuk> for example
<Keybuk> they're going to be different in your working tree because you ran autoreconf/autogen.sh differently to what was in the upstream makefile
<pitti> ah
<pitti> those really get on my nerves as well
<pitti> which is why I previously used cdbs tarball.mk, and now love to use bzr-buildpackage
<pitti> so that distclean/autoreconf can be as broken as it wants to
<Keybuk> how does that help?
<Keybuk> at the end of the day, if the stuff in the source tree and in the tarball differ, dpkg-source will throw a wobbly
<Keybuk> I don't use bzr-buildpackage because of that
<pitti> Keybuk: you never build from your development tree, it always uses ../build-area/
<Keybuk> (and because this tree is git <g>)
<pitti> Keybuk: right, of course it doesn't help with debian/ having binary files
<Keybuk> pitti: but that doesn't help you any
<pitti> this just protects you from changes which are done during build
<Keybuk> pitti: then you end up with an out-of-date configure in the source package
<Keybuk> because it gets copied from the tarball
<pitti> like orig.tar.gz shipping .gmo, and build regenerating them (ugh)
<Keybuk> when it needs to be updating
<pitti> or calling autoreconf during build
<pitti> Keybuk: yeah, one of my favourite reasons to hate autotools :)
<pitti> anyway, let's not warm up this
<pitti> Keybuk: my personal practical solution is debian/patches/99autoreconf.patch
<pitti> it's evil and ugly, but the most stable hack that I found
<directhex> autoreconf patches and autoreconf-in-rules both suck
<directhex> the common suck factor being autofoo, of course ;)
<Keybuk> pitti: debian/patches in revision control ARGH
<pitti> directhex: the former has huge and hard to maintain patches, the latter breaks every other build, so I prefer the former
<kirkland> pitti: they're already fixed in karmic ;-)
<pitti> kirkland: ah, please close the bugs then (apparently the changelog didn't)
<Keybuk> the whole *point* of packaging in revision control is that I can go
<Keybuk> autoreconf
<Keybuk> bzr commit -m "autoreconf"
<pitti> ??
<pitti> you certainly don't want to maintain generated files in bzr?
<pitti> like configure or Makefile.in?
<Keybuk> pitti: they're in the tarball
<Keybuk> so they get put into the bzr imports
<pitti> anyway, if you do, bzr will get along
<directhex> autom4te.cache!
<Keybuk> I've argued about this non-stop
<Keybuk> and even filed bugs on bzr suggesting how to make it work
<Keybuk> but to no avail
<pitti> Keybuk: so, about that particular point I don't have an idea either; it's a hard to solve combination of dpkg source format limitations and autoconf being a tramp
 * directhex prepares more of karmic's mono stack
<Keybuk> pitti: I will admit to, once, making the diff.gz myself and uploading it <g>
<pitti> heh
 * pitti pats Keybuk and sheds a tear with him
<Keybuk> bzr tag --build FTW!
<kirkland> pitti: done!
<pitti> Keybuk: NoMoreSourcePackages FTW!
<pitti> Keybuk: (I guess you meant the same)
<Keybuk> pitti: right
<pitti> Keybuk: I think notify-osd and apport are in a similar situation
<pitti> Keybuk: I keep the full source in bzr, and use bzr-bd's merge mode to blend in the orig.tar.gz
<pitti> and of course as soon as I add an icon to the ubuntu branch, it falls over
<pitti> (should be pretty much the same problem, AFAIUI)
<Keybuk> yeah
<Keybuk> I'm surprised any of this works, tbh :p
<Keybuk> I have packages entirely maintained in git (upstream, debian and ubuntu)
<Keybuk> packages where the upstream is in git, and I patch in git, but then import to bzr to add the debian/ directory
<Keybuk> packages where the upstream is in bzr, and the packaging added (without tarball files)
<Keybuk> that one's Debian packaging is, ironically, in git
<pitti> Keybuk: FYI, I uploaded new g-p-m with dk-power support an hour ago
<pitti> MIRs are filed
 * pitti goes to package dk-disks now, yay new crack
<mvo> Riddell: could we get a transitional kubuntu-kde4-desktop package (for #368459)
<mvo> Riddell: hm, nevermind, I think I found a better solution
<cjwatson> Keybuk: roll on the v3 source package format
<cjwatson> Keybuk: at which point the delta to upstream is in a .tar.gz not a .diff.gz and all those annoying restrictions stop being a problem
<Keybuk> cjwatson: I'd settle for no source packages at all
<cjwatson> (entirely independent of all the auto-quilt stuff in v3 which I haven't quite got my head around yet)
<cjwatson> I do think we need source packages if only as an export format. I wouldn't mind not working with them day-to-day
<Keybuk> what do we need an export format for? :)
<cjwatson> it'd piss me off if I had to use some other distribution's magic tools to find out what was in their source
<cjwatson> so I'd rather not do that to other people
<Keybuk> you already do, no?
<cjwatson> anyway, it won't be a big deal once the v3 format is in place
<Keybuk> Debian you need to know how to extract tarballs, diffs and which file to chmod
<Keybuk> RedHat-a-like you need to turn the src.rpm into a cpio and extract it (or install rpm)
<cjwatson> sure, but there's a document that tells you how to do it for Debian-based systems if you don't have the tools
<cjwatson> and it's pretty damn trivial
<cjwatson> .src.rpm is more of a hassle I agree (and that annoys me)
<Keybuk> you could document "bzr checkout"/"git checkout" quite trivially
<cjwatson> put it this way: I don't see a need to oppose source packages once they're not a burden
<cjwatson> the burden is in terms of working with them as part of the development processes, not in terms of exporting them to users
<cjwatson> I'm all for making our development processes (incrementally) easier
<olmari> if I may comment for anything/nothing, I kinda like the gentoo way of "compile everything" way :)
<cjwatson> that's rather unrelated to this discussion ...
<pitti> Keybuk: dk-disks currently installs http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/tmp/95-devkit-disks.rules
<pitti> Keybuk: it currently duplicates the by-{uuid,label,id} stuff from 60-persistent-storage.rules
<olmari> I know that too :) Just had an unresistable urge to say it =)
<pitti> Keybuk: do you happen to have heard about a discussion where these rules should live?
<pitti> Keybuk: I'm inclined to patch dk-disks' ones to remove them
<pitti> olmari: FWIW, we compile everything as well, but just once, not 10 million times :)
<cjwatson> you're entirely welcome to compile Ubuntu for yourself too
<pitti> olmari: (SCNR, too)
<olmari> pitti: Well, what I like most is compile selectores, or WTF they was called as... And that compilation is optimised for any one CPU/system at the time at hand
<Keybuk> pitti: I'm not aware of those, I'll ask davidz
<olmari> pitti: but I also like ubuntus "easyness"
<pitti> Keybuk: they seem useful outside of dk-disks, so from my POV it makes sense to have them in udev, but I don't have a strong opinion about it
<olmari> pitti: in other areas than installation I mean
<olmari> pitti: in reality there rarely is noticeable diffirence between "common" binary and optimised compile, but I kinda thriwe to be best all the time :D
<olmari> pitti: and for the record, I do use Ubuntu on mine comp =)
<olmari> best possible thing would be that compilation process would go unnoticeable from users point of view, as in normal apt-get does, and able to see the process would shown only if wanted to etcetc :)
<olmari> But maybe this is end of the discussion... I really don't mean to be insult around here :)
<cjwatson> it's not insulting, it's just a very very old discussion that we have long since taken a clear decision on
<olmari> hehe, well I didn't know that :)
<olmari> also this was just at-the-moment mindstorm
<ogra> a big advantage of having the source in bzr on LP is that you have an easy web interface to browse files ... src packages need to be downloaded, unpacked etc to inspect them
<ogra> sometimes that annoys me if i only want to look at a single file
<olmari> then again anyone can get the source and do compile it as wanted =)
<cjwatson> Gentoo was around when Ubuntu was created and we were aware of it. We simply felt that that approach would not meet our goals.
<olmari> cjwatson: I do know what you mean actually :)
<olmari> besides, ubuntu can't be that bad if I'm using it too :D
<olmari> (and sorry again if this was against channel rules) :)
<pitti> kirkland, StevenK, jdstrand, james_w: (looking at karmic/NEW) just making sure, that you know about new-binary-debian-universe?
<james_w> pitti: I've seen it on the wiki page, haven't had an opportunity to use it yet
<pitti> james_w: right, I just want to make sure that you guys don't waste hours on reviewing those manually
<james_w> no chance :-)
<james_w> thanks
<pitti> that should help focussing on the real new Ubuntu packages like devicekit-disks (hint, hint) :)
<jdstrand> pitti: thanks for the tip! Like james_w, I'd seen it in the wiki, but nothing else
<pitti> also, during those archive days you should run sync-source -a every now and then
<pitti> and also new-source
<seb128> oh, new-source, I forgot that
<seb128> doing now
<seb128> urg
<seb128> $ new-source | wc -l
<seb128> 500
<olmari> cjwatson:  BTW, no one have yet answered that apt bug we talked awhile back... I wan't to help on the issue like by doing installation again on this computer, assuming it still sould happend yet again as it did happend consistently few days ago... but I'd like to do it before too much stuff on this comp as I don't have any else computer to use as per "spare"
<pitti> seb128: !
<seb128> pitti: indeed
<olmari> cjwatson: I know the bug isn't a responsibility... just agai nwanted t oinform the situation
<seb128> pitti: how much reviewing do you usually do to this list? ;-)
<pitti> seb128: none, except well-formedness :)
<seb128> ok, let's sync then ;-)
 * pitti hears the buildds squeak
<pitti> seb128: please do keep the list, though, and source-new them in bulk
<seb128> pitti: right
<pitti> seb128: gosh, three gazillion new perl modules
<pitti> seb128: list looks quite sane to me
<seb128> pitti: to me too, syncing it now
<pitti> seb128: while you are at it, sync-source -a also works with -C contrib and non-free
<seb128> pitti: right
<pitti> but that's rather not urgent
<seb128> pitti: for how long will we keep the buildds busy do you reckon? ;-)
<pitti> the next couple of dist-upgrades will be a hell :)
<pitti> seb128: dunno, maybe two or three weeks
 * pitti blows off the dust from his rescore-sru script
<cjwatson> mvo: could you look at olmari's apt bug?
<mvo> cjwatson: sure
<cjwatson> mvo: (it's the same hang we've seen before, but he can reproduce it every time)
<mvo> cjwatson: ohhh, I missed that, that sounds perfect, finally a good lead on the issue
<cjwatson> that's what I thought :)
<seb128> pitti: ok, new sources synced and waved through source NEW
<kirkland> pitti: interesting, that's a new one to me
<asac> Keybuk: is it a known issue on _hardy_ that udevadm info with --path=/sys/class/... gives "no database record ..." (or something similar) while --name= would work fine? ...
<Keybuk> asac: udev always does that if there's nothing in the database
<asac> Keybuk: so in this case --path=/sys/class/tty/ttyACM0 failed like that, but --name=ttyACM0 gave valid entries
<ScottK> doko: I'm just going to minimize the diff from Debian in python-support to the supported versions and we can see how that works out.
 * ScottK now notes slangasek beat him to it.
<kees> kirkland: where have you reported "screen" patches?  is there an active tracker for them?
 * ScottK notes https://lists.dns-oarc.net/pipermail/dns-operations/2009-March/003710.html at lamont and wonders if we care about DNSSEC stuff stop working in BIND in 3 days? (I don't understand DNSSEC well enough yet to know)
<ScottK> cjwatson: I didn't have any UTF-8 sync requests the other day when you were asking, but I've had two today and used your fix (which works).  Thank you.
<kirkland> kees: yes there is!
<kirkland> kees: let me grab it
<kees> kirkland: cool; I have a patch I'd like to put in so the shared-session beeping stops :)
<kirkland> kees: were you hearing beeping?
<kirkland> kees: i had that turned off, i thought
<mvo> tkamppeter: is cups-pdf still used/useful?
<kees> kirkland: anyone else attached who typed at the window would generate a bell for each letter typed.
<kees>       /* XXX FIXME only display !*/
<kees>       WBell(fore, visual_bell);
<kees> :)
<kees> so I switched it to a Msg() as is done for the ACL'd commands
<kirkland> kees: here's one i pushed upstream: http://savannah.gnu.org/bugs/?22146
<kirkland> kees: very nice
<kirkland> kees: actually, it looks like someone opened that one on my behalf :-)
<kirkland> kees: commit that puppy to karmic, and push it upstream :-)
<kirkland> kees: and i'll add it to the screen-profiles ppa as well, where I've collected a few useful backport screen patches
<kees> kirkland: https://savannah.gnu.org/bugs/index.php?26401
<RyanK> kenvandine_wk: just read your message indicator talk! (was good btw!) had a question but couldn't make it there...
<RyanK> is there any way to get a notifcation to stay on screen longer? sometimes the time out is just a bit too short to read a tweet!
<RyanK> (or perhaps have the timeout scale when the message is longer?) and I hope this isn't an inappropriate place to ask.. too many ubuntu channels! lol
<ScottK> RyanK: #ayatana is probably a better channel.
<RyanK> ScottK: thanks for the heads up... will head in there
<pitti> cjwatson: hm, does karmic's dch work properly for you? it acts strangely in multiple different ways for me
<lamont> ScottK: fixed in 9.5.1.dfsg.P2-1, if that helps...
<ScottK> lamont: It does.  Thanks.
<lamont> not particularly interested in trying to backport the fix, though... pretty sure my my git tree has the 9.4.3-P2 bits in it as well.
<lamont> though that's still a fix-rev update+2 patches from hardy bits
<directhex> hm. i hope the desktop-karmic-default-media-player-choice session doesn't suffer from too many protests
<jcastro> directhex: it'll be fine
<directhex> jcastro, i recognise a name on the subscribers list on the blueprint. i don't question that it'll be fine, but i doubt they're there to lend any positive sentiments
<directhex> jcastro, we'll see how it goes. if it's calm & peaceful, i owe you a beer. if there's disruption, you owe me a beer. deal? :p
<jcastro> heh
 * mterry will cause a disruption for half of directhex's spoils
<LordKow> is there a blueprint for said "default media player choice session" ?
<directhex> LordKow, https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-karmic-default-media-player-choice
<LordKow> directhex: so the idea is to switch rhythmbox-> banshee ? yea that will cause a lot of commotion
<LordKow> i've actually never touched banshee before but from the website it does not look to shabby, very similar to rhythmbox and if it saves space... goodie.
<LordKow> the quick search is lacking in banshee, however :(
<LordKow> unless it breaks a license agreement, should be able to package rhythmbox differently such that docs, helpfiles, etc are a separate package
<directhex> LordKow, gotta have docs though. that's a bonus for RB right now
<LordKow> well, the whole idea behind that blueprint is to save space for the isos right?
<directhex> LordKow, sure. but iso's gotta be useful without internet, so gotta have a manual
<__iron> hi buddies
<__iron> any git pro is avaible ?
<hyperair> __iron: #git is full of them
<hyperair> !ask
<ubottu> Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line, so others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-)
<__iron> thx hyperair
<__iron> ubottu: i know it was a "meta-question" sry for that
<ubottu> Error: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<hyperair> __iron: just ask. i know a fair bit of git too =)
<__iron> hyperair: awesome, my problem are ive tried to update my kernel src
<__iron> http://pastebin.com/m6d41c2fa
<__iron> hyperair: http://pastebin.com/m6d41c2fa
<__iron> hyperair: i dont know what is going wrong
<hyperair> __iron: run git config remote.origin.url
<hyperair> __iron: it's most likely that you got that wrong
<__iron> hyperair: same message again
<hyperair> __iron: paste the output of git config remote.origin.url
<__iron> hyperair: http://pastebin.com/m396d18fa
<hyperair> __iron: post the output of .git/config then
<hyperair> __iron: i mean contents
<__iron> hyperair: http://pastebin.com/m4f15c931
<hyperair> __iron: ookay.. that's very strange.
<__iron> hyperair: jep
<hyperair> __iron: best you head to #git and seek help from better gurus =p
<__iron> hyperair: hehe thx for your support
<hyperair> __iron: wait one more thing. do you have $GIT_DIR set?
<__iron> hyperair: nop
 * hyperair is very confused
<__iron> hyperair: i set ~/.ssh/config
<__iron> hyperair: maybe rsa-file is wrong
<hyperair> __iron: you're not even using ssh.
<hyperair> __iron: at least, your .git/config doesn't say so
<__iron> hyperair: strange
<__iron> hyperair: could eplain what i have to set into .git/config
<__iron> +you
<hyperair> __iron: see the line url = bla
<hyperair> change that
<hyperair> git+ssh://ssh_host/bla/bla
<__iron> hyperair: it doesnt work
<hyperair> __iron: there's something seriously wrong with your git repository. how did you clone?
<__iron> hyperair: nop
<hyperair> __iron: i asked how did you clone
<hyperair> anyway i really need to get to bed
<hyperair> you should ask in #git =)
<hyperair> that's the more proper place
<cjwatson> ScottK: syncs> excellent
<cjwatson> pitti: I have karmic's devscripts installed and it seems to be working fine for me, but I'm otherwise mostly running jaunty. What's up with it.
<cjwatson> ?
<__iron> hyperair: thx and good night (good fight)
<infinity> cjwatson: FWIW, gcc-4.3-base (and everything that loves it) is entirely removed from the karmic chroots from here on in.  I declare the toolchain "done".
* spm changed the topic of #ubuntu-devel to: LP offline/RO 22:30-23:30UTC | Archive: open for development! | Ubuntu 9.04 released! | Development of Ubuntu (not support, not app development on Ubuntu) | #ubuntu for support and general discussion for dapper-intrepid | #ubuntu-motu for getting involved in development | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment | See #ubuntu-bugs for http://wiki.ubuntu.com/HelpingWithBugs
<cjwatson> infinity: whee
<slangasek> Keybuk: all the MoM merges come in with 'jaunty' as the distro target; is that just because they were all generated back when the update first became available for merging?
<fbond> Hey, what is the first version of Ubuntu that will drop the runlevel concept and replace init scripts completely with upstart events?
<fbond> (If someone can point me to some documentation of the plan for this change, that would be fine, too.)
<slangasek> using upstart doesn't imply eliminating runlevels; and there are no solid (scheduled) plans yet for phasing out init scripts.
#ubuntu-devel 2009-04-30
* spm changed the topic of #ubuntu-devel to: Archive: open for development! | Ubuntu 9.04 released! | Development of Ubuntu (not support, not app development on Ubuntu) | #ubuntu for support and general discussion for dapper-intrepid | #ubuntu-motu for getting involved in development | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment | See #ubuntu-bugs for http://wiki.ubuntu.com/HelpingWithBugs
<pitti> Good morning
<pitti> cjwatson: I have to do some more systematic observation, but things like "dch" not updating the timestamp in changelog, or "uupdate" not creating a new entry, but changing the current one
<dholbach> good morning
<dholbach> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Packaging/Training in #ubuntu-classroom now
<MacSlow> apw, ping
<apachelogger> pitti: bug 369733
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 369733 in jockey "jockey-kde's desktop file got no autostart setting" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/369733
<MacSlow> apw, what do I have to do to recompile http://kernel.ubuntu.com/~kernel-ppa/mainline/v2.6.30-rc3 with intel-kms enabled?
<MacSlow> apw, I want to use that under Karmic on a i965-based (intel GMA X3100) laptop
<MacSlow> apw, thanks in advance
<pitti> MacSlow: try https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Kernel/Compile
<MacSlow> hey pitti, I'm already on that page thanks
<thekorn> pitti: hi, does ubuntu-bug also have a switch to use staging.lp.net, like APPORT_STAGING for apport-collect?
<pitti> thekorn: not right now, I'm afraid
<pitti> thekorn: you can temporarily enable it by adding 'staging': '1' to /etc/apport/crashdb.conf's "ubuntu" section
<thekorn> pitti: oh, this is cool, will try this, thanks
<dpm> pitti: in which language pack are the Firefox translations? language-pack-*-base?
<pitti> dpm: yes (not the gnome or kde ones)
<dpm> pitti: ok, thanks
<eythian> if there's a bug that renders a program useless, and the bug report includes patches and so forth, what's the best way of drawing the attention of someone who can do something about it?
<pochu> eythian: subscribe ubuntu-{universe,main}-sponsors, I'd say, and/or ask in #ubuntu-bugs. What's the bug #?
<eythian> pochu: #277926
<pochu> bug 277926
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 277926 in synfigstudio "synfigstudio crashed with SIGSEGV in Gtk::Tooltips::set_tip()" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/277926
<eythian> pochu: so would that be suitable for subscribing -sponsors too, or does it need to be a debdiff or something?
<pochu> eythian: some sponsors require a debdiff, but I think patches are ok too
<eythian> pochu: OK, I'll add it and see. I'm sure if there's some interest then we'll at least get feedback.
<liw> evand, yo? how do I test usb-creator from the source tree after I've made some modifications?
<evand> liw: in trunk there's no way to do that -- you have to debuild; dpkg -i ../usb-creator* .  However, I have changes in another branch where I'm making some large modifications to usb-creator that fix that problem.
<liw> evand, hmm... I just found bin/usb-creator
<evand> indeed, if you already have it installed you could just add the source directory to your path, though changes to the glade file and scripts/install.py wont be picked up as it uses absolute paths to reference them.
<liw> evand, no worries, my desktop machine is there to be trashed by vigorous experimentation :)
<evand> heh
<evand> I'm going to try to land these changes soon as you're not the first person to mention that they were working on modifications to the code and I don't want to step on the toes of anyone nice enough to make modifications.
<liw> evand, just to confirm: usbcreator/backend.py, method copy_progress is what gets called to update the frontend's progress bar, and gtk_frontend.py method progress is where it actually happens for the gtk frontend, right?
<evand> yes, at least as far as copy percentage goes.  Progress description updates happen elsewhere.
<liw> hmm... whenever I'm mucking about with someone else's code, I start wishing Python had static typing
<maxb> If someone's working on usb-creator they might like to take a look at the dd invocation used to create the persistence file
<ogra> usb-creator uses dd ? i thought it was all python
<maxb> It currently uses count=1 bs=hugenumber, which results in dd attempting to read the entire persistence file's size of /dev/zero into memory
<maxb> which is....silly
<evand> gah, I thought we fixed that ages ago.
 * evand digs
<maxb> Well, no the first bug was trying to use bs=1 count=hugenumber :-)
<liw> that may be why the progress bar stops for a long while...
<maxb> That resulted in literally millions of 1-byte read/writes
<maxb> That apparently got fixed to this new and differently broken behaviour
<evand> indeed
<maxb> Whilst we're on the subject, what's the rationale for allowing you to specify the persistence file size to the granularity of the byte?
<maxb> Surely integer numbers of megabytes would be amply expressive
<evand> I thought I had made the latter the case already, but perhaps that change was lost.
<evand> ah, you're right (quite obviously), the fix for 331327 just broke it in a different way.
<evand> I'll push a proper fix that uses a proper block size to -updates.
<evand> thanks for calling that to my attention, maxb
<evand> err my attention to that
<maxb> evand: Do you possibly know why the original change in 0.1.10 was made?
<maxb> oops, * 0.1.11
<liw> (that should obviously be documented in the bzr commit message ;-)
<maxb>   * Internally represent the persistent file size in bytes for greater
<maxb>     accuracy.
<maxb> evand: Your change, apparently :-)
<evand> oh, because at the time I as creating usb disks for the store and it wasn't using the maximum amount of space, but obviously it's silly to need that kind of granularity and really, it's fine if dd tries to write more than it can as that's the last operation in the install routine anyway.
<evand> liw: I use debcommit, so in the changelog :)
<maxb> "it's fine if dd tries to write more than it can as that's the last operation in the install routine anyway." ... but won't an error break it? And it's not the very last thing, mkfs still needs to run after dd
<evand> no, it can ignore the error just fine
<evand> a fair point about mkfs, but that will still succeed, assuming it ignores the error on dd
<maxb> Is it really useful/correct to do so?
<evand> hrm, an equally fair point :)
<evand> perhaps I should not worry about the loss of a few bytes
<maxb> Personally I'd be in favour of just forcing it to a granularity of 1MB and using that as the dd blocksize
<maxb> i.e. just go back to intrepid's behaviour :-)
<evand> heh, I agree
<evand> will do
<liw> me too
<maxb> It could be advantageous to keep a few bytes spare on the usbstick anyway, to allow for fiddling with the syslinux files manually, etc.
<maxb> Also this satisfies my obsessive-compulsive tendencies of struggling with the slider trying to get it to exactly the number I want :-)
<evand> haha
 * maxb --> lunch
<liw> evand, see #333051 for a remaining time estimator
<evand> thanks a bunch liw!
<pitti> apw: FYI, I split apport into trunk (lp:apport) and ubuntu (lp:~ubuntu-core-dev/apport/ubuntu), so merge proposals should go to the latter
<pitti> apw: (nevermind for the current one, just telling you which branch to work against)
<geser> doko: as python-central renames site-packages to dist-packages for pyhton2.6, should we still keep ubuntu changes for the python2.6 transition in packages where dh_pycentral will fix it?
<tkamppeter> pitti, hi
<pitti> hi tkamppeter
<doko> geser: will have a look tomorrow
<lesshaste>  my X just spontaneously rebooted with this helpful backtrace (see end of log) http://pastebin.com/f373a4ba0
<robertj> hello all, is there a way to tell if a package is a security update or not?
<joaopinto> mvo, now that we have http redirect support on apt, are there any plans to adopt a solution like http://mirrorbrain.org ?
<jdstrand> robertj: 'apt-cache search <pkg>' will tell you where it came from
<jdstrand> oops
<joaopinto> robertj, maybe apt-cache policy package , and checking the mirror
<jdstrand> apt-cache policy <pkg>
<robertj> hacking up an nrpe plugin to alert of security updates only
<tkamppeter> In bug 364877, the reporter gets an immediate segfault when he runs /usr/lib/cups/filter/rastertogutenprint.5.2 simply on the command line. Apport does not get triggered automatically, probably because it is a released Jaunty. How can I get an apport crash report generated?
<ubottu> Error: Could not parse data returned by Launchpad: The read operation timed out (https://launchpad.net/bugs/364877/+text)
<tkamppeter> pitti: ^^
<mvo> joaopinto: not right now, also there is some launchpad support for this, there is also a mirorr method in apt that supports dynamic mirror spreading with the help of LP
<tkamppeter> pitti, bug 364877
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 364877 in cups "cups fails to print using Canon MP530" [Medium,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/364877
<seb128> StevenK: still there?
<StevenK> seb128: Ish
<seb128> StevenK: are you the one who sent a long list of binaries to universe today?
<StevenK> seb128: Yup
<seb128> StevenK: why?
<seb128> StevenK: you know that the queue default to universe right? ;-)
<StevenK> seb128: I wasn't supposed to?
<seb128> StevenK: and you sent libxcb binaries to universe which were in main and required by libcairo for example
<seb128> StevenK: I guess that was an error for libxcb?
<StevenK> Argh. Needs more careful checking of the output of the archive script
<seb128> StevenK: ok good, I'm fixing now ;-)
<lesshaste> how do I install debug symbols for X?
<lesshaste> the backtrace is perhaps not as useful as I had hoped
<geser> already tried apport-retrace?
<lesshaste> geser: apport doesn't seem to work for me...maybe you could give me a hand getting it to do something please?
<Riddell> mvo: are you planning to update dpkg to 1.15 any time soon?
<lesshaste> nothing ever appears in /var/crash annoyingly
<lesshaste>  cat /etc/default/apport
<lesshaste> # set this to 0 to disable apport, or to 1 to enable it
<lesshaste> enabled=1
<lesshaste> I don't know what else to do?
<cjwatson> Riddell: I am
<cjwatson> Riddell: I'm waiting for 1.15.1
<cjwatson> (as noted in my recent changelog)
<cjwatson> Riddell: any particular reason you ask?
<lesshaste> I notice https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Apport doesn't mention hardy at all!
<Riddell> cjwatson: pkg-kde-tools conflicts with << 1.15 but I can look into how important that is
<cjwatson> that's innovative given that Debian unstable doesn't have 1.15 yet!
<cjwatson> it's experimental only
<cjwatson> oh, you grabbed from experimental
<cjwatson> pkgkde-symbolshelper does appear to need the newer code
<cjwatson> can it wait until Tuesday when I'm back from holiday? I was hoping to spend some quality time with that merge since it's not at all straightforward but I am part-way into it
<Riddell> cjwatson: I can disable the symbolshelper stuff for now
<pitti> tkamppeter: for temporarily enabling it, use sudo force_start=1 /etc/init.d/apport start
<radix> it's lovely that dput defaults to the ubuntu master archive when I accidentally type "dput foo.changes my-ppa" instead of "dput my-ppa foo.changes"
<james_w> radix: you can set-up a new default
<james_w> I set it to an unresolvable address so that I don't forget
<james_w> but I agree that it's not really a good default for the tool to have
<radix> james_w: cool, good to know, I'll do that
<james_w> radix: see the end of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperGuide/Uploading
<james_w> you don't have to use "unspecified" if you want it to upload to your PPA by default or something
<tkamppeter> pitti, hi
<radix> I guess I'll do the SPECIFY.A.HOST thing, since I upload to a few PPAs
<radix> james_w: thanks
<james_w> np
<pitti> good bye everyone, have a good weekend!
 * pitti -> gone until Monday
<radix> later pitti
<radix> have fun
<lesshaste> anyone able to give me a hand installing debug symbols for X?
<Riddell> ubuntu-mir: quick look at bug 369918 appreciated, blocking KDE currently
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 369918 in xmlrpc-c "main inclusion report for xmlrpc-c" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/369918
 * calc has 10 MIRs to write, ugh
<calc> what's worse is these are 10 essentially duplicated packages due to upstream OOo braindamage
 * directhex registers a blueprint
<directhex> yays!
<pochu> how can I debug complete system lockups? X hangs, I can restart it, and when rebooting there's nothing special in dmesg, syslog, kern.log or Xorg.0.log.old
<pochu> when it hangs I can't even ssh the machine
<hyperair> serial port
<hyperair> wait a sec, you can restart X?
<pochu> nope
<pochu> and there's no serial port
<pochu> brand new dell mini 12 :)
<pochu> s/can/can't/, bah
<pochu> I can't even switch to a tty
<ScottK> pochu: You dont happen to have the alarm-clock applet installed do you?
<pochu> unless it came installed by default, no
 * pochu checks
<ScottK> No, it's in Universe.
<pochu> yeah, just checked, it's not installed
<pochu> this will be a great opportunity to learn how to debug kernel/X lockups, I guess
 * pochu tries to be possitive ;)
<hyperair> pochu: i think the only real way is serial port
<hyperair> pochu: besides um.. firewire?
<hyperair> or some other thing getty can work on
<pochu> hyperair: it has usb, vga and ethernet :P
<pochu> might be bug 301513
<pochu> it mentions disabling bluetooth as a workaround
<ubottu> Error: Could not parse data returned by Launchpad: The read operation timed out (https://launchpad.net/bugs/301513/+text)
<hyperair> then i think it's pretty much impossible to debug
<hyperair> it's not a panic is it?
<hyperair> it's a hard lock
<hyperair> how about UML
<hyperair> lol
<pochu> if it was a panic I'd see a console with the message, right?
<directhex> pitti, if you get a moment, can you take a look at my blueprint for adding dh_clistrip support to pkg-create-dbgsym?
<ScottK> directhex: He's away until Monday
<directhex> scottK, oh, fair enough. post-release holiday?
<pochu> yeah, it's surviving after disabling bluetooth and wifi
<pochu> I hope it's not the wifi! :)
<pochu> directhex: I guess it's because of this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Workers%27_Day
<directhex> oh, yes
<pochu> oh noes, it's the wifi
<calc> pitti: ping
<RainCT> sladen: Hi. I'm working on merging zsync, and there's a chan ge which overrides a guess_gzip_options function to always return "--best". Is that from you? (And if yes, any info on why that's desirable so that I can write it into the changelog?) :)
<RainCT> ah.. perhaps because with the offset option there's may be no header to check for the used encoding?
<sladen> RainCT: wow.  I haven't touched that for at least a couple of years
<RainCT> :)
<sladen> RainCT: yeah, so the offset option was added to allow diving directly into a .deb file
<sladen> RainCT: when DNS next works for a few seconds, I'll try to have a look at the diff
<sladen> I should so have another go and making this work sanely, Fedora are coming out with something
<RainCT> sladen: http://paste.ubuntu.com/161635/
<RainCT> (also, 208.67.222.222, 208.67.220.220 for OpenDNS ;))
<sladen> RainCT: those patches were probably for the semi-private tree that was being hacked on to make apt-sync work
<sladen> RainCT: and then which got applied anyway.   --best was probably also added because that is what debian-policy mandates
<RainCT> sladen: ok, thanks for the info :)
<calc> anyone around doing syncs? i have a batch for OOo 3.1.0
<calc> 369937, 369959, 369960, 369961, 369963, 369966, 369968, 369971, 369972, 369974, 369981
<calc> the first one is a sync that was a merge, the rest are from experimental so won't happen automatically
<ebroder> Wow...that's retarded. erlang-base in Jaunty conflicts with erlang-doc-html because the docs update wasn't uploaded until after DIF
<ebroder> What are my chances of getting the current erlang-doc-html in lenny/sid synced into Jaunty as an SRU? Should I get an SRU for erlang tearing out that conflict instead?
<sladen> RainCT: I'd leave it in for the moment, but note that it was related to apt-sync work in 2006/2007 and may need reviewing at some point
<apw> pitti, ack didn't notice there was two, i think the default is wrong possibly in launchpad
<mbana> any I the only one who doesn't like the new notifications in ubuntu?
<mbana> can i switch back to the old one
<directhex> yeah, change some package for another. i forget the specifics
<StevenK> Install notification-daemon rather than notify-osd
<Laney> I thought it was gnome-strat<something>-session. Or does that do more?
<jdong> Laney: that reverts to as close of a standard upstream gnome session as possible.
<Laney> what other changes are there?
<Laney> fusa I guess
<jdong> Laney: update notifier, ...
<Laney> alright
<jdong> various things that I find useful but Gentoo users look upon with scornful disdain :)
<jdong> I think that's a good summary
<pace_t_zulu> can someone help me with building gnome-panel for the purposes of testing a patch for bug #36189
<pace_t_zulu> please?
<ubottu> Error: Could not parse data returned by Launchpad: The read operation timed out (https://launchpad.net/bugs/36189/+text)
<Ampelbein> pace_t_zulu: where are you stuck at?
<pace_t_zulu> hi Ampelbein
<pace_t_zulu> so i downloaded the gnome panel source w/   "apt-get source gnome-panel"
<pace_t_zulu> and i modified a single file
<pace_t_zulu> and i got the packaging files w/ "bzr get http://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop/gnome-panel/ubuntu"
<pace_t_zulu> are the packaging files necessary to building and testing?
<pace_t_zulu> do they contain ubuntu-specific info not found in the source code i retrieved w/ apt-get source?
<Ampelbein> pace_t_zulu: no, they are used for the official packaging in ubuntu.
<pace_t_zulu> ok
<Ampelbein> it's basically just the debian/ directory
<pace_t_zulu> so i need to debootstrap to chroot for testing?
<pace_t_zulu> yes, i see that
<Ampelbein> best is to use pbuilder
<Ampelbein> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto
<Ampelbein> pace_t_zulu: btw: gnome-panel uses quilt to manage patches
<Ampelbein> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Howtos/Quilt
<pace_t_zulu> thank you... i was just about to ask
<pace_t_zulu> Ampelbein:  so this pbuilder thing can take a while to setup and configure?
<Ampelbein> yeah
<pace_t_zulu> Ampelbein:  do you know where the gboolean type is defined?
#ubuntu-devel 2009-05-01
<Ampelbein> pace_t_zulu: in the glib i would suppose
<pace_t_zulu> Ampelbein: thank you
<pace_t_zulu> Ampelbein:  how do i test the package using pbuilder
<pace_t_zulu> i followed the instructions to build
<pace_t_zulu> what is unclear is how to test the newly built package
<Ampelbein> pace_t_zulu: sorry, was offline for a moment. you can install the package created by pbuilder with 'sudo dpkg -i /var/cache/pbuilder/result/<packagename>'
<pace_t_zulu> Ampelbein: to be clear, pbuilder is just for building clean debs...
<Ampelbein> pace_t_zulu: right. it provides a clean build environment so you can check if the build-depends specified are correct. and it does not pollute your working system with unnecessary -dev packages.
<pace_t_zulu> cool
<pace_t_zulu> but it doesn't provide a safe testing environment
<geofft> for that, for something on the order of gnome-panel, you want a VM or a live CD
<Ampelbein> pace_t_zulu: what geofft says. i use virtualbox for testing such intrusive changes.
<Ampelbein> pace_t_zulu: you can define snapshots so you can always revert to a clean state.
<pace_t_zulu> yeah... i am coming to realize that
<pace_t_zulu> i am running ubuntu in vmware fusion
<pace_t_zulu> on a mac pro
<SuperLag> I just wanted to tell you guys that Jaunty ROCKS. Thanks for your work.
<pace_t_zulu> lesson learned about taking snapshots... i my have done a bit of damage... i think i can clean it up though
 * calc bets he will be sick within the next day or two :-\
 * calc hopes whenever it inevitably happens that he will be well before he has to leave for barcelona
<pace_t_zulu> Ampelbein: thank you for your help... i am heading home from work... maybe see you later
<cavedon> hi, what is the correct procedure to request a package removal from universe?
<cavedon> (package superseeded by another one: i.e. changed name)
<cavedon> fire a bug a subscribe ubuntu-archive?
<cavedon> ...and subscribe...
<DktrKranz> cavedon, file a bug with every detail needed to analize the request and subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors
<cavedon> DktrKranz: tnx!
<DktrKranz> :)
<TurtlePie> how do I decrypt my key to sign the CoC
<TurtlePie> i am stuck :(
<pwnguin> when was the "leadership code of conduct" written?
<jdong> what is the leadership code of conduct.
<jdong> wow that question looks bad for me to be asking :-/
<pwnguin> hah
<pwnguin> http://www.ubuntu.com/community/leadership-conduct
<jdong> cool, never noticed that
<pwnguin> me either!
<pwnguin> i was just looking up attribution on the normal CoC for some silly reason, and noticed this new thing
<pwnguin> apparently archive.org found it may 2007
<jdong> shame on me then :)
<pwnguin> im not sure it was ever met with any fanfare
<ScottK> I'm fairly certain I don't do so well on 'show more civility'.
<mdke> pwnguin: 10 November 2006 - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LeadershipCodeofConduct?action=info
<geser> doko: do you know why python-distutils.mk from cdbs (karmic) renames dist-packages to site-packages?
<calc> looks like we need to do a boost1.37 transition for karmic, 1.35 is requested for removal from Debian
<lesshaste> hi.. my X restarted again spontaneously with this log http://pastebin.com/f4d283a92
<lesshaste>  I thought i  had installed debug symbols.. what can I do to get a better backtrace for next time?
<ScottK> calc: Debian is targetting 1.38 for squeeze.  Maybe go straight to that?
<lesshaste> I have installed xserver-xorg-core-dbg  for example so I am mystified
<calc> ScottK: ah yea probably a good idea
<calc> ScottK: i just noticed the request for removal of 1.35 i didn't realize there was a 1.38 already
<lesshaste> anyone got any ideas?
<ScottK> calc: Not sure if it's through New yet.
 * ScottK hasn't looked
<calc> ok
<calc> yea boost1.38 has been in debian for about a month
<calc> do packages get removed semi-automatically from Ubuntu after being removed from Debian... except for cases where they are 0ubuntuX ?
<calc> or how does that happen?
<martijn933> lesshaste: you know https://wiki.ubuntu.com/X/Backtracing ?
<lesshaste> martijn933: ah maybe I am missing the debug symbols specific to my driver you mean?
<lesshaste> martijn933: which xserver-xorg-video-<name> do I need for the fglrx driver?
<lesshaste> ah.. it's none of those right?
<martijn933> sorry, can't help you any further on this
<martijn933> just gave you the link in case you had not seen it
<lesshaste> martijn933: ok thanks.. the top tip is to change to the open source driver of course
<lesshaste> which I will do as soon as I can
<lamont> I wonder how I tell the gimp to come up with the same window size as it had the last time, instead of the apparently new with jaunty "ZOMG YOU MUST WANT ME TO FILL THE SCREEN" belief
<Riddell> pitti or asac: bug 369918 MIR is blocking KDE merges, able to take a look?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 369918 in xmlrpc-c "main inclusion report for xmlrpc-c" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/369918
<Riddell> I don't know if it even needs a MIR since as far as I can make out the code is also in cmake anyway
<rickyb> Can anyone help me with an Ubuntu 9.04 display related problem - "Display Preferences" does not give me the correct refresh rate values
<soren> rickyb: xmlrpc-c also includes a server implemention, doesn't it?
<soren> Err...
<soren> Riddell: xmlrpc-c also includes a server implemention, doesn't it?
<rickyb> good question
<soren> rickyb: Sorry, not fo you :)
<rickyb> lol
<Riddell> soren: I'm not sure on that, I havn't even worked out why cmake needs it
<Chipzz> Riddell: it would also fix an other problem which I filed a bug for :)
<Chipzz> (unrelated to kde though :P)
<Riddell> Chipzz: moving it to main?
<Chipzz> no :)
<Chipzz> but it would be a side-effect I suppose :)
<Chipzz> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/rtorrent/+bug/173850
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 173850 in rtorrent "XML-RPC reports incorrect values for large files" [Medium,Triaged]
<Chipzz> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xmlrpc-c/+bug/173848
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 173848 in xmlrpc-c "Please package more recent version" [Wishlist,Triaged]
<Chipzz> filed allmost 1.5 years ago *ugh*
<kirkland> cjwatson: hi there, i have a couple of ssh implementation questions for you ...
<kirkland> cjwatson: thinking about encrypted-home and ssh public key authentication
<kirkland> cjwatson: currently, we can't mount the home directory until the user enters their login passphrase through pam
<kirkland> cjwatson: since the wrapped-passphrase file is symmetrically encrypted with the login passphrase itself
<kirkland> cjwatson: however, i'd like to support something like a wrapped-passphrase.ssh
<kirkland> cjwatson: which would instead be wrapped with an ssh private key
<kirkland> cjwatson: so a user ssh'ing in via public key authentication, if the homedir is not mounted, would need to have pam_ssh pass pam_ecryptfs the incoming private key
<kirkland> cjwatson: pam_ecryptfs would use that key to try and mount $HOME
<kirkland> cjwatson: if that works, then kick back to pam_ssh, and let it check authorized_keys
<kirkland> cjwatson: if that succeeds, PAM_SUCCESS or whatever
<kirkland> cjwatson: if that fails, then we'd need to unmount $HOME first, and then PAM_FAILURE
<kirkland> cjwatson: can you offer any thoughts/insight on this idea?
<kirkland> slangasek: you might have some insight too...  See the last 10 minutes of cjwatson-directed messages :-)
<asac> Riddell: looking
<asac> Riddell: you say it was in cmake ... the dir mentioned in MIR isnt in cmake from jaunty
<asac> oh sorry
<asac> Riddell: do we need all binary packages in main?
<dMoberg> How do I make my own gnome-panel applets?
<dMoberg> I want the tmeperature from this site: http://www.frryd.se to show in the panel :)
<Riddell> asac: no, just the library
<Riddell> libxmlrpc-c3-dev and libxmlrpc-c3
<asac> Riddell: lib*abyss does server sockets
<Riddell> asac: what's that?
<Riddell> I don't see abyss mentioned in xmlrpc-c
<asac> Riddell: not sure. i would feel more comfortable if we could put the server libs to a separate binary package
<asac> Riddell: libxmlrpc-c3
<asac> err
<asac> http://paste.ubuntu.com/162353/
<asac> Riddell: ^^
<Riddell> mm, I see /usr/lib/libxmlrpc_abyss.so.3.6.15
<asac> yeah
<asac> and there is also server*so
<asac> and stuff
<mnemo> dMoberg: "mkdir code ; cd code ; apt-get source gnome-panel ; cd gnome-panel-2.26.0/applets/fish ; gedit fish.c" but there is probably really nice step by step tutorials if you google for it, plus you can probably do in some nicer language like for example Vala
<Riddell> asac: I wonder if it would be easier to juse go bck to using the xmlrpc from within cmake
<asac> Riddell: running ldd on those suggests that they could be sorted to a separate lib. not sure what cmake would need from those
<asac> Riddell: hmm
<asac> Riddell: in general having the code in one place is worthwhile. but i think that such high-level server lib code needs security review
<asac> Riddell: does the cmake code still exist?
<asac> or was it removed upstream?
<Riddell> asac: it's still in cmake
<asac> Riddell: so just a drop of build depends and a change of a configure flag ? ... if so, i would think its better to do that
<Riddell> asac: I think so, trying that now
<Riddell> asac: uploaded without that as a build-dep
<asac> Riddell: good
<Riddell> asac: hmm, I screwed up
<Riddell> asac: it doesn't compile without xmlrpc-c
<Riddell> that's what I get for compiling two things at the same time
<Riddell> I can separate out the libraries it doesn't use though
<Riddell> -lxmlrpc -lxmlrpc_util -lxmlrpc_xmlparse -lxmlrpc_xmltok is what it needs
<asac> Riddell: yeah. that would make me feel comfortable ... e.g. moving server, abyss stuff to a separate pkg
<rom> hi
<rom> will this critical bug fixed soon : https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/346691
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 346691 in linux "jaunty kernel 2.6.28-11 kernel update renders the system un-usable." [High,Triaged]
<rom> it makes jaunty final worse than an alpha1 release
<slangasek> kirkland: what exactly do you mean by "pass pam_ecryptfs the incoming private key"?  I'm not sure how to map that statement to what ssh actually does...
<calc> anyone around that can sync some packages for me... please? :-)
<mdz> slangasek: I'm not seeing xserver-xorg-video-intel binaries in -proposed, despite your comment on 359392 (only source)
<slangasek> mdz: the comment is the generic template generated by the sru-accept script, it doesn't take into account that all the SRU builds are currently backlogged because of the karmic archive opening :(
<slangasek> mdz: if you're in a position to bump the build scores, that would be welcome
<infinity> slangasek: What needs abusing?
<slangasek> infinity: xserver-xorg-video-intel, linux, compiz in jaunty-proposed could use build scores bumped
<infinity> slangasek: On it.
<slangasek> cheers
<mdz> I'll leave it to infinity
<mdz> slangasek: will that wait for a publisher cycle, or does it come right out ppa-style?
<slangasek> mdz: binary availability? subject to the publisher cycle
<infinity> mdz: Of course, you can snag it from the librarian immediately, if you're in a hurry.
<mdz> infinity: I will, though I'm hoping to get it to the huddled masses ASAP
<bryce> thanks guys
<mdz> the subscriber list on that bug is as long as my arm
<infinity> mdz: They will, sadly, be huddling for another hour and a half or so. :/
<infinity> (Oh how I miss 30 minute cron.dailies...)
<mdz> infinity: does launchpad's 'estimated build time' mean much of anything at all?
<mdz> 'estimated build start' I mean
<infinity> mdz: It's based on queue order and stuff that it feels you're stuck behind.
<infinity> mdz: Which arch/package has you unhappy?
<mdz> infinity: they're both building now
<infinity> mdz: I may have accidentally queued a "linux" before the video driver on one arch...
<mdz> they just said "estimated build start: 1 minute" for about 10 minutes
<mdz> oh, my mistake, i386 is building but not amd64 (the one I need)
<mdz> it says "estimated build start: 0 seconds ago"
<mdz> ah, now it's started
<infinity> mdz: Oh, yeah.  The code that estimates that has no clue whatsoever about the fact that buildd-manager takes its sweet time scanning the buildds. :/
<infinity> mdz: Things have improved drastically since the old slave-scanner, but "drastic improvement" over "30 minutes to iterate over all the buildds when they're not all idle" isn't saying much.
<infinity> mdz: Should be built and uploaded now, FWIW.
<mdz> slangasek: binaries awaiting acceptance
<slangasek> mdz: ok - that should be entirely automatic, just needs a publisher cycle
<infinity> Hahaha.  I get an OOPS trying to load that bug.  How many "me toos" does it have?
<infinity> Oh, there we go.
<mdz> infinity: there's no link to the librarian entry at https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-video-intel/2:2.6.3-0ubuntu9.1/+build/982845
<mdz> maybe that doesn't work for -proposed?
<infinity> It claims they want to be accepted.  That's... Odd.
<slangasek> hmm, indeed
<slangasek> looks like a UI bug, though
<infinity> They're definitely not in the queue though.
<infinity> UI bug indeed.
<infinity> Annoying.
<mdz> could one of you file it?  I'm not sure I can describe the problem fully
<LaserJock> man, Jaunty's only been out like a week and there's 68 .debs in -proposed
<slangasek> mdz: yep
<mdz> thanks
<mdz> LaserJock: I count *1*68
<LaserJock> well, I meant I had 68 updates
<LaserJock> should have been clearer
<LaserJock> but still, that's quite a lot of fixing in a week
<slangasek> mdz: bug #370529
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 370529 in soyuz "when binary packages in -proposed are "accepted", build page shows them as "Binaries awaiting acceptance"" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/370529
<mdz> slangasek: thanks.  I'm pretty sure I've run into this before without knowing what was going on.
<infinity> slangasek: Yeah, it's definitely related to the bug fix you noted.
<infinity> slangasek: "RF 7590. Ensures that builds have a package upload in the 'DONE' state before providing links to the binary package publishing record"
<slangasek> ah, doh
<infinity> slangasek: And the builds aren't "DONE" until the publisher queues them for on-disk publication.
<slangasek> indeed
<athasm> ?DCC SEND "ff???f?" 0 0 0
#ubuntu-devel 2009-05-02
<billisnice> my firefox will not open on my ubuntu puter?  9.04
<ScottK> billisnice: #ubuntu is the channel for support.
<duncan> Hi.  I've got a question about developing a .deb for Ubuntu that creates a file association in Gnome and KDE.  Is this the right place?
<duncan> (That is, a .deb to run on Ubuntu - not part of Ubuntu itself)
<ScottK> duncan: Basic packaging questions (which it sounds like that is) are better asked on #ubuntu-motu
<duncan> Thanks :-)
<billisnice> my screen resolution does not stay, it switch when i reboot and is so small i barely can see it.
 * zhxk finds a messy code that appears on bum, and want's to know where does the discription to the items comfrom:http://imagebin.ca/view/BLL1WLF.html
<zhxk> #ubuntu-dev
<cjwatson> kirkland`: the client uses the private key to sign a message proving that it has the public key - it doesn't give the private key to the server (and it would be a serious security breach if it did), so pam modules invoked from /etc/pam.d/ssh have no access to it. To make that work I think you'd need to get into ssh protocol extensions, as you'd need to arrange to send the wrapped passphrase back to the client for unwrapping
<DRAGGER> Hello , how i do install application using direct link for e.g. "http://argouml-downloads.tigris.org/nonav/argouml-0.28/ArgoUML-0.28-src.tar.gz"
<steveire> cjwatson: ping? Is there anything else I can do about bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/366282
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 366282 in parted "Install partitioner does not detect existing partition table" [Undecided,Incomplete]
<kirkland`> cjwatson: gotcha, that makes sense.  i should have known that.
<kirkland`> pitti: Bug 359997, i don't understand your comment
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 359997 in ecryptfs "Improve record-your-passphrase dialog" [Wishlist,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/359997
<kirkland`> "Does your commit fix that path issue as well?"
<kirkland> pitti: bug updated
<james_w> kirkland: that's not pitti is it?
<kirkland> james_w: oh, good call :-)
<kirkland> pitti: sorry for the spam :-)
<LaserJock> hmm, would an annoying UI bug that was introduced via an Ubuntu patch seem like an SRU candidate?
<ion_> Ooo, unattended-upgrades uses apt-listchanges in jaunty. It was so minor an annoyance i never got around to reporting it not executing apt-listchanges, but iâm happy now that it does.
<mbana> will anything break if i install notification-daemon
<mbana> i want the old one
<ion_> Ah, someone else had reported it. http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=507639
<ubottu> Debian bug 507639 in unattended-upgrades "unattended-upgrades: apt-listchanges not triggered" [Important,Closed]
<mbana> shall i just remove notify-osd?
<ion_> The overall look of the distribution is also likely to be refreshed. "Brown has served us well but the Koala is considering other options," Shuttleworth noted.
<ion_> Oh noes. Brown is good.
<maco> lots of people seem to take issue with earth tones though...not quite sure why
<hyperair> i don't like brown
<jdong> ugh it's artwork. Can't we focus on making things work instead? or is that a lost cause?
<mdke> stuff doesn't work?
<hyperair> to put it bluntly, when i first used ubuntu (6.06) i thought the interface looked like shit, and changing the theme was one of the first things i did
<jdong> mdke: there's always room for improvement.
<mdke> jdong: I think there are a few bugs still outstanding
<jdong> bootup speed, X flickering, intel/X stability is a major nightmare for me, IO interactivity particularly with Firefox....
<jdong> now don't get me wrong I love my Ubuntu machines and am satisfied with them, not trying to troll here
<jdong> but there's certainly always room for improvement
<jdong> the artwork has never tended to be a thing that's bothered me. the theme's appearance and usability is fine to me
<hyperair> flickering i don't see
<hyperair> but i seriously lost it earlier when i got three hard locks in two hours
<jdong> hyperair: it takes about 2 seconds to flip from X to a VT.
<hyperair> 2 seconds huh
<jdong> which has to be done on suspend and resume.
<hyperair> i don't switch to VTs much heh
<hyperair> oh!
<hyperair> hmm
<hyperair> big problem.
<hyperair> i don't suppose KMS can help this?
<jdong> compare that to my macbook running OS X which resumes in 150ms from lid-up to ping response.
<jdong> I think KMS is supposed to help
<jdong> but I don't think it'll be on the order of 150ms resume.
<jdong> and when you use a laptop on-the-go occasionally, suspend-resume speed is a big deal
<hyperair> 150ms..
<hyperair> that is crazy.
<hyperair> how do you measure 150ms?
<jdong> hyperair: the unlock screen is waiting before I can pull the lid up.
<hyperair> ..shit
<jdong> hyperair: 10ms ping polling from another system
<jdong> over *WIFI*
<hyperair> O_O
<jdong> how much of that 150ms is re-establishing wifi? :)
<jdong> I'm convinced the network links up before the CCFL backlight can engage.
<jdong> I've heard the LED macbooks resume even faster.
<Chipzz> jdong: my macbook also resumes that fast; but I don't think it's suspended when you close the lid
<Chipzz> just sleep or sth
<Chipzz> (dunnow the accurate terms)
<jdong> Chipzz: it's put into S3+S4 hybrid.
<jdong> Chipzz: that is, it writes out a hibernate to disk image AND then goes into RAM sleep
<jdong> Chipzz: that way if battery runs out it can resume from disk, if battery remains it will wake like normal standby
<Chipzz> what I *do* like is that if your battery runs out while the lid is closed, it automatically hibernates
<Chipzz> hrrrm ah k
<jdong> the suspend part takes about 10 seconds to write out the encrypted RAM image.
<jdong> the resume part is instant if you don't lose battery power
<Chipzz> yeah
<Chipzz> one of the things I like about osx :)
<jdong> you can use a pmset command to turn off the hibernate image so suspend is instant too
<Chipzz> (or is that not os specific?)
<jdong> Chipzz: Windows Vista does the hybrid sleep thing too
<jdong> and there is support in Linux too via the s2both command but I've never gotten it working
<jdong> namely it takes well over 30 seconds to write something out, but neither resume from RAM nor resume from disk worked in Intrepid.
<Chipzz> not running linux on mine though
<Chipzz> (</blush>)
<jdong> I dual on my macbook but to be honest most of the time on the go it runs OS X.
<jdong> apart from the suspend-resume thing, our entire campus is Cisco 24-channel MIMO 802.11N connected
<jdong> and OS X can easily pull 13MB/s up and down
<jdong> Ubuntu kernel panics when ath9k tries to connect to 5.8GHz N
<jdong> seems to be a known ath9k upstream bug
<Chipzz> recent model?
<jdong> no, this is older, the first core2duo generation black plastic.
<jdong> the newer ones use broadcom cards which ironically work better if you use go-to-RMS-hell drivers
<Chipzz> hrrrm
<jdong> and are apparently a lot less expensive too
<jdong> I've been considering shelling out the 20 bucks to swap in one of those
<Chipzz> didn't know 802.11N did go that far back
<jdong> the atheros A+G chipset that was in those macbooks could be firmware-upgraded to N
<jdong> yay software defined radios!
<Chipzz> see, firmware is not evil! *grin* :)
<jdong> lol
<jdong> as long as it's redistributable IMO I don't see the difference between it being loaded on by the OS or by the OEM in factory. It's still a blob we can't change.
<Chipzz> well, I wouldn't call a free upgrade to N evil anyway :P
<Chipzz> anyway, afk again :)
<maco> hyperair: i thought feisty's wallpaper looked like chocolate milk. one of my cousins called it mousse and wanted to get a spoon to try to eat her screen
<hyperair> lol
<hyperair> that's hilarious
#ubuntu-devel 2009-05-03
<YokoZar1> Anyone else notice that the word "jackalope" isn't in our dictionary?  (Then again, neither is Ubuntu)
<bluefoxicy> ~$ serpentine
<bluefoxicy> Traceback (most recent call last):
<bluefoxicy>   File "/usr/bin/serpentine", line 109, in <module>
<bluefoxicy>     assert path.isdir(locations.lib)
<bluefoxicy> AssertionError
<bluefoxicy> latest version on Jaunty
<azeem> bluefoxicy: bug reports go to launchpad AFAIK
<bluefoxicy> azeem:  nods, so not a known issue
 * calc hopes the house he is going to tour tomorrow isn't too screwed up, 4300 sq ft in a private neighborhood with guardshack, 3 gold courses, yacht club, etc for < $190K
<calc> apparently it needs some repair but not sure how much yet
<calc> s/gold/golf/
<LaserJock> calc: where are you?
<calc> LaserJock: texas
<LaserJock> you can't get a crack house for that around here :-)
<calc> LaserJock: heh yea the house tax value is $350K still cheap compared to most other areas
<LaserJock> yeah
<calc> i'm hoping to talk them down to ~ $150K or so if its not too damaged for me, its been on the market for over 8 months already
<LaserJock> 4300 sq ft is pretty nice
<LaserJock> mine is 904 :-)
<calc> yea, about 3x the size of my condo
<calc> my current place is ~ 1600sqft
<calc> and i hate having a shared wall with a neighbor they are always make noise late at night
<slangasek> < $190K?  that /almost/ makes it sound like it'd be worth living in Texas :)
<ScottK> Have you lived in Texas?
<slangasek> no
<slangasek> I got my fill just visiting
<ScottK> Heh
<LaserJock> closest I've been was flying into Dallas/Ft Worth airport once
 * ScottK lived there just long enough to experience a hurricane.
<LaserJock> yeah, that's something I worry about
<LaserJock> I've always lived in places that were fairly free of natural disasters
<LaserJock> and mostly free of nasty snakes
<directhex> natural disasters will follow you anywhere
<directhex> even the centre of the uk has the occasional earthquake
<directhex> and snakes can be found on planes
<LaserJock> yeah, just depends on what you're used to I guess
<LaserJock> I had a professor that would much rather take on a grizzly bear than live in a city
<LaserJock> I'm going for an interview for a job in Lexington, MA in a couple weeks and I'm petrified of driving in Boston
<ScottK> LaserJock: Fly into Manchester, NH and drive down to Lexington.  It's about the same distance and you can avoid the Boston traffic
<LaserJock> ScottK: too late, the Air Force already booked it for me
<ScottK> Ah, OK.
<directhex> has boston's big dig ended yet?
<ScottK> Yes.
<ScottK> I think there's still some fixing the parts they messed up going on, but I'm pretty sure the basic project is done.
<directhex> well, shows how many years it is since i was in boston then
<calc> slangasek: it has a cracked foundation, i will be looking at it tomorrow, and if nothing else major is wrong with i will be having a company give me a quote for repair to see if it is worth buying
<calc> apparently repairing foundations can vary a lot in cost depending on how severe it is, anywhere from $2K to $40K+
 * ScottK plunked ~15K down for foundation repair a few years ago.
<calc> ScottK: ouch
<LaserJock> ScottK: did they have to lift the house?
<calc> well if i can get a house for less than half price and only pay a few thousand or so to fix it, then its not too bad
<ScottK> It was a process where they basically put hydraulic stilts down to bedrock to lift it back up and hold it there.
<calc> ScottK: yea
 * calc bbl
<slangasek> calc: ah yes, cracked foundations are teh suck
<slangasek> that explains the markdown ;)
<calc> slangasek: apparently its relatively cheap to fix compared to the value of the home so might be worth the hassle, i should know more tomorrow
 * slangasek nods
<pwnguin> calc: value of the home or value of the land?
<pwnguin> calc: either way, at least in the US you can probably find labor to fix it cheap at the moment ;)
<calc> pwnguin: well if it costs ~ $10K to fix its probably worth it since the house value is ~ $350K
<pwnguin> the house itself?
<pwnguin> usually land value is most of a property value
<pace_t_zulu> !ot
<ubottu> #ubuntu is the Ubuntu support channel, for all Ubuntu-related support questions. Please use #ubuntu-offtopic for other topics. Thanks!
<pace_t_zulu> haha
<calc> pwnguin: not in texas :)
<pwnguin> man
<pace_t_zulu> i am having fun w/ !ot today
<pace_t_zulu> pwnguin: knows this
<calc> pwnguin: i think the lots are only worth 5-30K well the non-water-front lots anyway
<pwnguin> does your appraisal split up home and land?
<calc> pwnguin: the house is 4300 sqft (~ 400 sq m)
<pwnguin> unfortunately, i have no idea how many sqft the home im in right now is
<LaserJock> calc: how much land?
<calc> LaserJock: around 10000 sq ft
<LaserJock> heh, it's measured in sq ft?
<calc> yea
<calc> so .22 acre
<calc> according to the tax records the land is worth $9600 and the house $341500
<LaserJock> ok, ~10K would seem sort of reasonable for Texas
<calc> i think some of the lots on waterfront are ~ $300K
<calc> but thats pretty crazy for land price in texas, heh
<pwnguin> that just doesnt make sense much to me
<pwnguin> our house is 150k, and most of that is land
<LaserJock> heh, my parents land came out to $440 for .22 acres :-)
<pwnguin> going by the appraisal, we can replace the house for $40K
<calc> http://tiny.cc/6Nc6p <- example empty lot
<calc> thats in the same neighborhood i am looking in
<LaserJock> calc: gotta dig your own well out there?
<pwnguin> ah, well sure, if you live in the middle of nowhere
<pwnguin> for some reason i assumed this was dfw
<calc> LaserJock: no, its more or less a resort, 3 golf courses, yacht club, etc
<LaserJock> right
<LaserJock> sounds real nice
<calc> about an hour drive from downtown houston
<pwnguin> obviously not a huge problem if you telecommute :)
<calc> yea thats good too :)
<calc> its a bit longer drive to the airport from where i live now but i wouldn't mind
<pwnguin> why is downtown houston the benchmark?
<calc> pwnguin: where most people work that live there i imagine
<calc> pwnguin: its the nearest place where people can make enough money to live in that neighborhood, heh
<pwnguin> maybe before enron fell apart ;)
<calc> i think the average house there is ~ $400K when the average income in the county is < $40K/yr (afaik)
<calc> so texas is definiely cheaper than california (and other places) but people also generally make less money to go along with it
<pwnguin> i like the town names that map picks out. "cut and shoot"
<calc> heh
<pwnguin> when i was a child we lived in longview
<calc> it has a wikipedia entry
<calc> ah thats not too far from dallas
<pwnguin> i wouldnt know
<LaserJock> it is interesting how town names can be so regional
<pwnguin> you mean like texarkana?
<LaserJock> like in the northwest there are a lot of native american names
<LaserJock> I grew up in Medicine Lodge valley, part of Horse Prairie in Beaverhead County
<LaserJock> and then like southwest is pretty spanish
<pwnguin> can't imagine why
<pwnguin> on the other hand, the college town i went to was named "manhattan"
<LaserJock> Kansas?
<pwnguin> yep
<LaserJock> I applied for a job there
<slangasek> named after the chowder, perahps
<pwnguin> recently?
<LaserJock> pwnguin: as in I'm waiting to hear back
<pwnguin> they should be in a hiring freeze
<pwnguin> hurray for economic recession
<LaserJock> it was an already advertised position so I'm guessing it's safe from a freeze, but who knows
<pwnguin> you might check out #ksu and #k-slug
<pwnguin> on freenode
<LaserJock> my uni is looking at cutting %50
<pwnguin> woa
<pwnguin> and people say KANSAS is the educational cess pool :P
<LaserJock> nah, come out to Nevada
<LaserJock> we have like one of the lowest per/capita spending
<LaserJock> and since everything is based off of gambling when the economy dives there's not much to do about it
<calc> most of the south seems to still believe the earth is flat.. etc
<pwnguin> our supreme court had to rule that not funding education was unconstitutional
<LaserJock> calc: well given what much of the midwest looks like anyway it's understandable ;-)
<calc> heh
<pwnguin> well, at least manhattan isnt boring
<pwnguin> http://www.flickr.com/photos/jimrichardsonphotography/2990897117/
<pwnguin> http://www.flickr.com/photos/juddpatterson/492165690/
<LaserJock> that's pretty sweet
<LaserJock> pwnguin: that fire shot reminds me of one we had a couple years ago: http://www.flickr.com/photos/onnie/148586628/
<pwnguin> oh, these are *deliberate*
<LaserJock> yeah, we only do those in the fields
<LaserJock> and they don't look nearly as cool as that one you had
<pwnguin> thats basically what passes for fields
<pwnguin> if you felt like parking on I70 you could probably snap a similar picture at the right time of year
<calc> hmm in another neighborhood nearby there are lots > $800K that aren't even waterfront, heh
<calc> hmm i only thought that was the expensive lots... they go up to at least 1.5M
<LaserJock> calc: that's quite a range
 * calc going to bed, bbl
<speakman> hi folks, where can I found Intel xserver deveopers? I have a big issue with my intel chip on my laptop and maybe I can help identifying what's causing it.
<speakman> After upgrading from Intrepid to Jaunty it totally screwed up my graphics, and even removing the xorg.conf did not help.
<speakman> reverting back to intel 2.4 driver made it at least usable
<doko> cjwatson_, slangasek, Riddell, pitti, infinity: if you are around, please promote tsconf to main, anything needing pango/cairo/gtk is uninstallable ...
<DairyKnight> hi, anybody could give me a short guide on how video adapter drivers implement the 'switch to external display' functionality?
<james_w> doko: done
<DairyKnight> or give me some link to documents?
<doko> james_w: thanks, will add your nick for future pestering ... ;)
<james_w> damn ;-)
<BUGabundo> hi
<BUGabundo> what package is repsonsible for /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/50unattended-upgrades ?
<BUGabundo> during karmic distupgrade its asks to set Debian instead of Ubuntu karmic
<soren> BUGabundo: I'm going to guess unattended-upgrades.
<BUGabundo> ok
<BUGabundo> filing bug against it
<BUGabundo> thanks soren
<soren> BUGabundo: What does that file say?
<BUGabundo> soren: http://paste.ubuntu.com/163543/
<mnemo> BUGabundo: you can find the package responsible for any file by running "dpkg -S /path/to/file.ext"
<doko> james_w: libpt-dev libpt-doc libdatrie-dev libdatrie-doc libdatrie1 libdatrie1-bin look obvious as well (renamings)
<soren> BUGabundo: Which version of the package are you installign?
<BUGabundo> soren: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unattended-upgrades/+bug/371222
<ubottu> Error: Could not parse data returned by Launchpad: The read operation timed out (https://launchpad.net/bugs/371222/+text)
<BUGabundo> soren:   Installed: 0.39debian1
<BUGabundo> humm auto sync mistake?
<soren> BUGabundo: That's from Debian.
<BUGabundo> should have been touched by a ubuntu dev, then
<BUGabundo> soren: I just have karmic sources!
<soren> BUGabundo: Oh, right. Yes, that's a mistake.
<BUGabundo> $ pastebinit /etc/apt/sources.list
<BUGabundo> http://paste.ubuntu.com/163544/
<BUGabundo> soren: bug updated with new info too
<BUGabundo> now to ping who ever *should* be managing it
<Hobbsee> hrm, tha'ts a native package.
<Hobbsee> I wonder if that's a bug in the autosyncer
<soren> Why would that matter?
<Hobbsee> because it looks like it's debian native?
 * soren doesn't get it
<Hobbsee> i thought our native metapackages were 1ubuntu1 or whatever.
<soren> unattended-upgrades isn't a metapackage?
<BUGabundo> Hobbsee: they are, when they are touched
<BUGabundo> soren: no!
<soren> I know.
<soren> So I'm wondering why Hobbsee speaks of metapackages.
<BUGabundo> ahh
<BUGabundo> lol missed that
<soren> Who maintains sync-blacklist.txt ?
<Hobbsee> was meaning in general.  metapackages was obviously the wrong term.
<Hobbsee> soren: archive admins, i expect.
<soren> Hobbsee: Sounds reasonable.
<Hobbsee> i don't have access
<soren> Hobbsee: Ok.
<soren> I still don't see how it's a bug in the autosyncer.
<mnemo> would be nice if someone fixed "system::admin::software sources" UI in karmic
<mnemo> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/software-properties/+bug/371228
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 371228 in software-properties ""system::admin::software sources" broken in karmic due to NoDistroTemplateException" [Undecided,New]
<BUGabundo> shouldn't I be getting a reboot message?
<Hobbsee> soren: it probably isn't.  I'm probably wrong.
<soren> mnemo: Bringing up every bug in Karmic on IRC is not very useful. Karmic is less than two weeks old. Breakage is /expected/.
<BUGabundo> AFAICT it's a bug on the package it self
<BUGabundo> it shouldn't have been autosinc
<BUGabundo> oh wait, that would mean it's a bug on the blacklist rules
<james_w> it's never been in the sync blacklist as far as I can see
<BUGabundo> james_w: but it should, other wise it will always do what it now did for me
<james_w> I know
<james_w> I've just added it
<BUGabundo> or at least tried to, I stopped it from doing , and manually updated the file
<BUGabundo> james_w: but now we need someone to maintain it, and change the repo version for karmic
<james_w> sure
<james_w> it has a maintainer
<BUGabundo> who is it james_w?
<james_w> MIchael of course :-)
<BUGabundo> Maintainer: Michael Vogt <michael.vogt@ubuntu.com>
<BUGabundo> spoke too soon
<BUGabundo> mvo you lazy dev.... eheh
<BUGabundo> so, to rest this, is this a bug on the package it self? or the blacklist? or both
<james_w> package
<james_w> you don't need to do anything else
<james_w> unless you want to propose a patch for the bug
<BUGabundo> I don't do code.. sorry
<james_w> doko: also done
<BUGabundo> but im too good finding bugs
<eierdieb> hej anyone here may tell me where you can request new features for ubuntu officially?
<mnemo> eierdieb: brainstorm or maybe a wishlist bug if it's a small specific thing
<eierdieb> its more like a small specific thing
<BUGabundo> eierdieb: what is it?
<eierdieb> you know trickle?
<BUGabundo> yep
<BUGabundo> have few bugs with it
<eierdieb> i'd like the system-monitor to have sort of plugin where you can shape traffic like you do with trickle
<eierdieb> in a way like with ne nice values
<eierdieb> -ne + the
<BUGabundo> in real time? how that would be great
<BUGabundo> but that's not a wishbug!
<BUGabundo> more on brainstorm, unless eierdieb you are doing it yourself
<BUGabundo> that package is not done on Ubuntu. so any major changes should be done upstream
<eierdieb> what i actually wanted to ask is where i can request such a feature in any of the wide variety of forums or so - is there any place where simple users like me can post such things?
<eierdieb> if there is - didnt found as fast as i maybe have liked to - so i went here :D
<BUGabundo> eierdieb: upstream
<BUGabundo> prob their ML... but not an easy task...
<eierdieb> would be great if there is a forum where simple end-users may request features which, after proper discussion, would be directed to the devel-team responsible
<LaserJock> eierdieb: I believe that's what brainstorm.ubuntu.com is about
<eierdieb> oh
<eierdieb> sry
<BUGabundo> LaserJock: but that's just "ubuntu"
<BUGabundo> what eierdieb want wants is a major change, on an upstream package
<BUGabundo> either email them, or open a wish bug with them
<LaserJock> BUGabundo: it could start on brainstorm.u.c if the users don't know any better spot
<LaserJock> sometimes it's not easily apparent who's responsibility something is
<eierdieb> but upstream seems to me like very much to do for an end user like me who simple likes a feature to be implemented
<BUGabundo> LaserJock: sure... but I now provided eierdieb extra info on how direct is idea
<LaserJock> BUGabundo: great
<BUGabundo> eierdieb: the point here, is that its upstream who have to make the change
<BUGabundo> and they need to hear about it, from the users
<eierdieb> and the place for this is brainstorm
<BUGabundo> having it alone on brainstorm won't even let them know *you* wanted it
<eierdieb> so what exactly does brainstorm do?
<eierdieb> excuse my bad english oO
<BUGabundo> eierdieb: its allows users to express and vote on ideas they want to see improved on *Ubuntu*
<BUGabundo> eierdieb: your english is good enough
<eierdieb> my problem is more like gnome i think
<BUGabundo> eierdieb: it is!
<LaserJock> BUGabundo: although I would suggest that most of the stuff on brainstorm is really upstream issues
<BUGabundo> that change to SM would also impact every other distro that uses it, not just Ubuntu
<BUGabundo> LaserJock: agreed. but we don't have an easy wait for doing it
<BUGabundo> no Upstream bug, a la LP
<BUGabundo> maybe that would be a great idea for Brainstorm: easy way to let Upstream know about Ubuntu User Brainstorm ideas"
<LaserJock> BUGabundo: you should file a brainstorm bug about that ;-)
<BUGabundo> doing it now
<eierdieb> but it would be a really nice move from the community to make such an easy way for the end users
<eierdieb> like you said
<BUGabundo>  !brainstorm
<ubottu> Post your ideas for ubuntu at http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com and vote for the ones you like!
 * BUGabundo is to lazy to type de URL
<eierdieb> brainstorm will be handled by me in time =)
<BUGabundo> eierdieb: ah?
<eierdieb> but i like to bring this idea of an easy-way-to-request-features to the community - since this is community related does anyone know with whome i can talk about this?
<BUGabundo> funny. no dupes! can't believe no one ever thought about this
<eierdieb> so is there?
<eierdieb> maybe i try #ubuntuforums what do you think? (or is there maybe a channel more community related?)
<eierdieb> i see there is a brainstorm channel - good2know
<BUGabundo> eierdieb: LaserJock: http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/19607/
<BUGabundo> eierdieb: *this* is NOT a brainstorm channel
<eierdieb> i know ^^
<eierdieb> sorry to bother you that much with my problems i just needed somewhere to start :D
<eierdieb> but thanks and tanks much more for the brainstorm post
<BUGabundo> bddebian: hi
<bddebian> Hi BUGabundo
<eierdieb> what exactly means the "QA" in ubuntu QA?
<BUGabundo>  !QA
<ubottu> To change the importance of a bug, you need to be part of the Ubuntu QA team.  see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuQA
<BUGabundo> eierdieb: its Quality Assurance!
<eierdieb> ah thx
<BUGabundo> its a team responsible for how good ubuntu probs get fixed I guess
 * BUGabundo when in doubt either ask the bot, or BUGabundo :)
<eierdieb> does upstream communicate directly with the devel team of e.g. SM? (or how does it work haven't figured it out exactly)
<eierdieb> too bad there is no upstream chat
<BUGabundo> eierdieb: ubuntu devs that maintain packages from upstream usually keep very well informed with changes
<BUGabundo> or are them selfs coders for those packages!
<BUGabundo> eierdieb: there is! many upstreams are on IRC too
<BUGabundo> like #kde, #plasma, etc
<eierdieb> yeah i meant no #ubuntu-upstream or so
<BUGabundo> gnome is on its own irc server irc.gnome.com
<BUGabundo> eiei hehe
<BUGabundo> and *why* would every upstream just vouche for Ubuntu?
<BUGabundo> its not their job to do it... it's the other way around
<eierdieb> found none here https://help.ubuntu.com/community/InternetRelayChat
<eierdieb> right
<BUGabundo> *distros* are responsible to keep track of what changes
<BUGabundo> eierdieb: those are only a list of Ubuntu channels
<dyfet> eierdieb: upstream sometimes have diveregant goals and interests, depends on the package.  Often, as BUGabundo noted, there are ubuntu packagers who are also active in the upstream project
<eierdieb> yep i just expected upstream there too
<BUGabundo> either check of a wiki with a list of upstream support/user/devel channels, or start making one your self
<BUGabundo> eierdieb: ^^^^^
<eierdieb> ^^
<BUGabundo> dyfet: that's just wrong and _we_ now it! having deltas is just bad
<BUGabundo> ubuntu development should go with upstream goals
<BUGabundo> eierdieb: that was meant to point you to my last noticed
<eierdieb> kk
<eierdieb> so my last question for now - when something "arrives" in upstream there is no larger further redirecting of the problem whatsoever?
<dyfet> BUGabundo: I meant broadly, I have (though only on rare occassion) seen this problem of differences between packager and upstream goals...and when I mean broadly, I also mean in respect to other distros, not necissarly this one :)
<eierdieb> i mean this is the last station befor people are handling it
<eierdieb> have i gotten this right=
<BUGabundo> eierdieb: more or less yes
<BUGabundo> dyfet: like the FUSA example?
<eierdieb> great
<eierdieb> thx again am gettin visitors soon so bye (for now^^) and have a good time ;)
<LaserJock> BUGabundo: it would be quite low probability to get all of our several thousand upstreams all with the same goals and interests, at some point the distro has to make some choices
<BUGabundo> LaserJock: really?
<LaserJock> really
<BUGabundo> humm I mean... each upstream...
<BUGabundo> not that every upstream should think the same way
<BUGabundo> not seeing an example dough
<BUGabundo> you mean stuff like PA and GNOME ?
<LaserJock> even Ubuntu itself doesn't have the same goals and interests within itself
<LaserJock> some people are for bleeding edge desktop, some are for rock stable server, some are for mono, some are not, etc.
<BUGabundo> yeah agree
<LaserJock> we try to define some common goals, enough to move things foward
<LaserJock> sometimes upstreams have somewhat different goals
<LaserJock> though generally everybody wants to give users the "best"
<BUGabundo> eheh
<BUGabundo> "what's the *best*?" lol
<BUGabundo> again ambiguous
<LaserJock> yep
<dyfet> LaserJock: just sometimes different people have different opinions as to what is "best" ;)
<dyfet> The key is as a community, these differences can be collectively resolved.
<BUGabundo> dyfet: unfortunately most of the times its left to a small group of Devs
 * BUGabundo see DX team case
<aemyr> Is grub2 ready for 9.10 ?
<BUGabundo> brb rebboting to Karmic Koala 9.10 pre-alpha
<directhex> "pre-alpha" is a bit generous isn't it?
<LaserJock> more pre-anything
<LaserJock> I built a karmic pbuilder without even hitting a single breakage :(
<BUGabundo> back and alive! seems distupgrade went well
<BUGabundo> just noting that I still have 9.04 kernel!
<BUGabundo> isn't there on for karmic? not even the one in -propose ?
<StevenK> BUGabundo: The kernel team are probably waiting until they upload -meta for the 2.6.30 kernel in karmic
<BUGabundo> yeah seems so StevenK
<BUGabundo> the linux-generic still depends on .11
<BUGabundo> manually installing it synaptic while karmic modules still build
<allquixotic> Hello! I see jack is still 0.116.1 in Karmic, currently. Debian unstable/experimental still uses this version, too. However, this is a point release behind the latest JACK1 version 0.116.2 with bugfixes that affect me; furthermore, there is JACK2, which is backwards compatible with JACK1-using apps, but *significantly* better performance and several new features. Could we deviate from Debian and pull in JACK2 for Karmic
<allquixotic> , if Debian is going to lag behind on this?
<allquixotic> I'll note that JACK2 is declared "stable", evidenced by the 1.9.2 release version on the website.
<siretart> allquixotic: and JACK2 is basically a rewrite of jack1 with a totally different codebase and therefore a set of bugs
<siretart> allquixotic: are you willing to actively maintain jack2 in ubuntu and/or debian?
<sebner> siretart: I'm wondering about the --without-dvdcss in the configure call of vlc. if you have libdvdcss installed it works nevertheless. or means with-dvdcss built-in-support?
<siretart> sebner: the latter
<sebner> siretart: I see. thx
<BUGabundo> oh sebner is back! how was the trip?
<siretart> sebner: it can use libdvdread, which in turn uses then libdvdcss. or vlc can use libdvdcss directly
<siretart> probably windows folks prefer using libdvdcss directly. no idea
<MattJ> I'm trying to build a package that tracks a source repository - does anyone have any tips for this, or some scripts which handle the process?
<hyperair> MattJ: what repository is that?
<MattJ> hyperair: http://prosody.im/source/hg - Mercurial
<MattJ> I'm trying to make a prosody-dev package which will always be (to some extent) up to date
<BUGabundo> I think what MattJ wants is something like fta bots. I think I remember some autobuild tools on LP
 * BUGabundo yeah MattJ I'm everywhere
<MattJ> :)
<Terces_> I was looking at different backup solutions and found rdiff-backup and duplicity. I really like the rdiff-backup versioning, but need it to be encrypted like duplicity, since many users will be backing up personal files to a company server. Does anyone have any ideas?
<Terces_> Also, when mounting private home folders in Jaunty, I believe they are mounted over the encrypted base store in .Private. Is there a way to get access to the encrypted store while the home is mounted (i.e. decrypted)?
<flower_> I want to add debian-installer to an ubuntu live-cd I want to make with live-helper, but I got: http://rafb.net/p/vOEWjj75.html
<calc> i went to look at the house today... needs a lot of work but i'll have to have some people come out to give me quotes
<directhex> this is the $6.99 place the size of buckingham palace?
<calc> directhex: yea more or less
<calc> directhex: it needs lots of foundation work, i am going to get someone to give me a quote, not sure if it is $10K or $100K worth of work
<calc> directhex: then it needs sheetrock, tile repair, and maybe brick/mortar work, etc
<calc> if its less than $30K it might be worth my time
<calc> depending on how cheap i can get the house for
<calc> so my vacation this year may be spent rebuilding a house, heh
<calc> it really needs a lot more work than that to make it look 'nice' but i can do that over the years i live there
<calc> someone thought that using floor tile on the kitchen countertops was suitable rather than granite (which is normal for this type of house)
<calc> considering i have a kid i would probably go with some sort of quartz/etc countertop since granite is too much upkeep, but tile is just ugly, heh
<directhex> wood. it would stain with the blood of your enemies!
<calc> heh yea
<slangasek> upkeep?  I thought granite just sat there, being stone
<calc> slangasek: it can get stained if you don't reseal it every few years
<slangasek> ok
<calc> slangasek: assuming you spill certain types of substances on it like cooking oil (aiui)
<calc> and calcium from water can cause white residue buildup but i think that is relatively easy to clean
<calc> since granite generally is polished and shiny it shows up more than on other types of countertops
<pace_t_zulu> !ot
<ubottu> #ubuntu is the Ubuntu support channel, for all Ubuntu-related support questions. Please use #ubuntu-offtopic for other topics. Thanks!
 * calc wishes someone would process his sync requests so he can upload OOo 3.1.0 :\
<LaserJock> calc: that's for Karmic?
<calc> LaserJock: yea
<calc> jaunty is done and shipped ;-)
<calc> i'm turning off features to get it to build for testing purposes atm but need the syncs before i upload to karmic
#ubuntu-devel 2010-05-03
 * jdong just found one of the most amusing quotes about the Linux sound stack
<jdong> "Linux's audio architecture is more like the layers of the Earth's crust than the network model, with lower levels occasionally erupting on to the surface, causing confusion and distress, and upper layers moving to displace the underlying technology that was originally hidden."
<psusi> OH HELL YEA
<psusi> wow... my first attempt at having defrag batch up requests and issue a bunch at once with readv() and writev() made it 3 times faster
<RAOF> psusi: Sweet.  Your stuff sounds so interesting :)
<psusi> hehe, do I have beta tester number 2? ;)
<ajmitch> psusi: it's all safe, right? :)
<psusi> lol, of course not ;)
<psusi> but that's why you have a recent backup right? ;)
<ajmitch> sure, only about 2 weeks old
<psusi> good old dump
<psusi> 2 weeks?  man... gotta dump every day ;)
 * ajmitch would like to see this laptop boot up in < 30 seconds or so :)
<psusi> 10 seconds ;)
<ajmitch> I'd be surprised if it could manage that, it starts up a few heavy things like postgres
<psusi> it's amayzing what you can do when you get rid of the typical 90+% time wasted waiting for disk rotations
<ajmitch> given that I've probably got nice slow 5400 rpm drives in the laptop, it could help
<psusi> I finally wrapped my head around the tower of hanoi dump backup pattern... and it is nice
 * imbrandon perks up, make a 5400rpm hdd based laptop fast ?
<imbrandon> heh
<psusi> imbrandon, yep... trying to make some improvements to ureadahead and combine it with defrag
<temugen> Keybuk: I updated http://bradmisik.com/trunk/fragraph/ (bzr) a bit. Still want to add some tests, comments, and possibly new graph types, but it's a lot better
<RAOF> psusi: Your work doesn't apply to btrfs at all, does it?  That's really what I want to lose my data with at the moment :)
<psusi> hehe, no
<psusi> just ext2/3/4
<ScottK> RAOF: It's unlikely you need psusi's help for that.
<RAOF> ScottK: I might want dpkg's help, though :)
 * psusi is still grumbling about the dpkg sync slowdown to fix ext4 bustedness
<psusi> oh wow, a larger hash table made a big difference...
<Keybuk> temugen: cool, pulled! :-)
<pitti> Good morning
<pitti> YokoZar: ah, I see
<pitti> cjwatson: there was no definitive decision yet (something for tomorrow's TB), but my gut feeling for maverick is to use unstable; but it can certainly stay at testing for now
<nxvl> pitti: are you suggesting that we move permanently to testing?
<pitti> nxvl: no, I'm not; as I said, I'd prefer unstable for maverick
<pitti> but I don't want to decide that on my own only
<nxvl> my vote goes for sid
<nxvl> :D
<nxvl> btw, is archive re-org going to be in place for maverick?
<arand> How does one debug mountall?
<Keybuk> --debug
<arand> Keybuk: Hmm, that works at boot? (It's the plumouth/mountall fsck stalling issue..)
<Keybuk> isn't that supposed to be a plymouth bug?
<arand> Keybuk: It's both mountall and plymouthd that eats cpu, depending on if you are in the graphical plymouth or jump out with arrowkey, or boot with quiet splash...
<arand> *without "quiet splash"
<Keybuk> yes, but that can mean it's a libplymouth bug
<arand> Bug #571707 by the way, it seems to be rather common (I've been messing about with it quite a bit lately, there's at least plenty of bootcharts)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 571707 in mountall "fsck progress stalls at boot, plymouthd/mountall eats CPU" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/571707
<Keybuk> certainly by the e-mail volume, there are a number of people affected, yes
<arand> Keybuk: If you want any debug/testing I've got a free virtualbox which see the issue...
<Keybuk> I think slangasek is looking at that bug
<Keybuk> not me
<arand> Ah, ok.
<dholbach> good morning
<Keybuk> DEBUG:root:Downloading http://ftp.uk.debian.org/debian/pool/main/k/kde-l10n/kde-l1
<Keybuk> IOError: ('http error', 404, 'Not Found', <httplib.HTTPMessage instance at 0x769bb00>)
<Keybuk> well
<Keybuk> screw you kd
<Keybuk> +e
<Keybuk> :)
<Keybuk> hmm
<Keybuk> that's impressive
<Keybuk> started dist-upgrade before bed last night
<Keybuk> DPKG IS STILL RUNNING
<lifeless> Keybuk: fs? hardware?
<Damascene> bug 572776
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 572776 in ubuntu "Ubuntu should provide update packages for download and use for offline users" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/572776
<Keybuk> lifeless: ext4 on hard drive
<Keybuk> dpkg is calling fsync over and over and over again
<lifeless> \o/
<Damascene> I hope someone looks in this bug because it's important to many users in many developed countries
<lifeless> Damascene: do you mean developing ?
<Damascene> I don't know. the third world countries or something like that :)
<Damascene> windows spread there because you get what ever you want on cds and from friends
<Damascene> in ubuntu you should have internet connection on your machine
<pitti> jdong, slangasek, cjwatson: does either of you have some time to review by lucid-proposed uploads? (gvfs, gnome-keyring, gdm, totem); gdm might be controversial, the rest should be fine, but even though we have this gnome 2.30.x exception I'd rather not self-approve them
<Damascene> bug 572776
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 572776 in ubuntu "Ubuntu should provide update packages for download and use for offline users" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/572776
<Damascene> I see new people have come in
<maco> same people as above, Bug #550145  permission requested
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 550145 in anki "Anki 0.9.9.7.8 in Lucid suffers irreparable loss of functions. sync with debian to 0.9.9.8.6-2 needed." [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/550145
<maco> Damascene: bring that up on ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com
<maco> Damascene: that seems like the sort of thing that would take some planning at UDS to get done
<Damascene> maco, ok
<Damascene> you mean the meeting coming up?
<maco> yes
<maco> where the release is planned
<nxvl> Damascene: that's kind of a trivial thing
<Damascene> trivial? why?
<nxvl> well, when you run apt-get upgrade all the packages get downloaded and stored in /var/cache/apt/archives/
<nxvl> so you only need to copy all of them into a CD/USB/HD and take it to an offline machine, copy again in /var/cache/apt/archives and be happy
<nxvl> basically
<Damascene> not really
<Damascene> what if you want to install new software. or what if you have cleaned the folder?
<nxvl> if you install new software the packages get stored in the same folder
<ghostcube> is there a reason that jackd is still not in main repo in lucid?
<ghostcube> shouldnt this be changed?
<nxvl> now, if you runned apt-get clean, that's a problem
<\sh> Damascene, so how do the windows people in developing countries get their "updates" on CD? someone needs to "download" the crap right?
<nxvl> also you will probably need to copy the content of /var/lib/apt/lists/ to do the "apt-get update" trick
<nxvl> \sh: yes, but i think the bug report is asking for a way to that
<\sh> nxvl, right...it's a hen <-> egg problem
<Damascene> what I'm suggesting is more simple
<nxvl> Damascene: now, how would you know which updates you need
<Chipzz> Damascene: "don't do that then"
<Chipzz> "Docter, my files are gone when I remove them"
<Chipzz> duh
<nxvl> what i mean is: let's assume i've a hardy system offline, last may i updated it using this magic script that gets me a CD with the updates so i can use it
<nxvl> how would you make me not to download the updates i already installed this may
<soren> apt-offline - offline apt package manager
<Damascene> Chipzz, do you mean the person who need to get updates should tell his friend not to clean their system?
<soren> Damascene, nxvl: ^^
<nxvl> soren: yup, i knew about that one, still is not UI
<nxvl> GUI*
<Damascene> nxvl, try that feature in synaptic and you will know
<nxvl> Damascene: huh?
<soren> nxvl: Ah.
<Damascene> synaptic will sort things out
<kklimonda> ghostcube: something in main have to depend on it in order to get it pulled into main. fox example libjack0 is in main because it's a dependency of libasound2-plugins (and maybe other things)
<nxvl> no it won't
<Chipzz> Damascene: what else do you propose? redownloading them again?
<ghostcube> kklimonda: so the dependencies for libxine to build with jackd support are in main?
<nxvl> in that case you will need to generate some kind of report in the offline machine, then go with that to an online machine and then download the packages
<ghostcube> then its ok
<Damascene> nxvl, if you have updated software list. synaptic will just mark the new packages
<nxvl> i'm taking about wasting my bw downloading things i don't need
<nxvl> talking*
<kklimonda> ghostcube: I don't know - apt-cache rdepends shows that libxine1-misc-plugins depends on libjack0 - is it enough?
<ghostcube> yep thx very much should do the trick :)
<nxvl> soren: i heard i will see you next week? is that correct?
<Damascene> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/572776/comments/3
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 572776 in ubuntu "Ubuntu should provide update packages for download and use for offline users" [Undecided,New]
<Damascene> nxvl, I've updated the report. please look at it
<Damascene> that might help you understand what I'm saying better
<nxvl> Damascene: let's say i've offline machine (A) and online machine (B), in machine A i already have udev up-to-date, then i go to machine B and download the new updates, how i tell machine B not to download udev?
<nxvl> ok, got it
<nxvl> how will you do step 2 without an internet conection?
<Damascene> nxvl, this step need internet connection
<Damascene> from any machine
<nxvl> oh, ok, so i think i got it, you will do step 2 in machine B, so will need to go from machine B to machine A then back to B then back to A
<nxvl> right?
<Damascene> that is better than having outdated system with not being able to install the software you want on it
<nxvl> well, you still have apt-on-cd and lots of options
<Damascene> tell me how to use apt-on-cd on windows?
<\sh> debmirror <release>-updates + <release-security> => burn it on a dvd => share the dvd => add the dvd to your sources list => repeat the steps every now and than, at least you need one internet connection from someone
<nxvl> mvo: ^^ did you see that possible, to have a downloadeable Packages.gz or something like that?
<Damascene> and again you shouldn't clean your system
<nxvl> \sh: i think i got the idea and it's kind of good actually
<maco> a webpage where you can upload your current dpkg --get-selections and itll spit back a list of packages you need in order to upgrade with download links... though thatd still involve right click -> save as on every single link...
<nxvl> maco: not if you do a tiny python script
<maco> yeah ive heard this a /lot/ from people who go to the library, use windows computers to grab a deb from packages.ubuntu.com and put it on a flashdrive, get home, and discover they fail at manual dependency resolution
<mvo> nxvl: its possible to generate a download script like this, yes, should not even be very hard
<Damascene> maco, right
<maco> nxvl: or if you get the server to make a zip of the debs and pop it out as an autodownload thingy... though there'd be a loading bar involved in that
<nxvl> so, what i'm thinking of is synaptic to generate a python script or something you can actually run on windows, mac or linux independently in step 4
<nxvl> so you don't need to do the right click save as
<maco> a portable app type thing maybe for the windows case
<maco> because window doesnt have python by default
<mvo> nxvl: ideally it would provide multiple languages, something like C#/mono, python, java
<mvo> nxvl: depending on what the user has availalbe on the windows system (or other system)
<nxvl> maco: the zip in the server would be kind of not what we need with this idea actually, every case will be a different set of packages for the zip
<mvo> nxvl: but yeah, the idea of a script is certainly appealing
<Damascene> hi, mvo
<maco> nxvl: which is why i said itd involve a loading bar...because itd have to sit there and zip stuff up for *every* person...which is ugh
<mvo> hey Damascene
 * maco raises a cup o' tea to mvo
<mvo> hey maco!
<nxvl> mvo: yeah, i said python because it was the first i thought it can be used in several systems, maybe a compiled python script for windows (i readed once that was actually possible)
<\sh> mvo: if you just concentrate on windows, it would be c#/vb .net ... or you provide several executables made from C (for windows, linux etc. because we don't know which OS the user is using;)
 * mvo toasts back with a cup of sencha
<nxvl> Damascene: are you going to be at uds?
<kklimonda> or maybe write it in C with gtk+ ? sounds like the most portable solution. or replace C with Vala
<mvo> nxvl: oh, cool idea, I did not think of the compiled ones
<maco> so um i think im going to be learning c# soon
<nxvl> this is actually an idea i kinda like
<maco> and that ill be having a windows 7 vm living on my laptop soon
<\sh> maco, c# is not that complicated ;)
<Damascene> nxvl, no, I'am afraid I cant
<maco> so that might actually fall into the category of things i could do
<maco> \sh: yeah i know java so it should be easy
<maco> kklimonda: windows doesnt have gtk+ by default. its another one of those things you have to tell people to install
<nxvl> \sh: it not hard, just HORRIBLE
<nxvl> :D
<maco> kklimonda: which makes it not-ideal for the case where youre using a public machine on which you lack admin
<kklimonda> maco: there is no way to distribute gtk+ library with the executable itself?
<nxvl> mvo: so, that can be a software center plugin?
<Damascene> myself I used downthemall to get the packages from windows machine
<maco> kklimonda: i guess you could staticly link it....itd be HUGE
<Damascene> for windows you can just generate text file with links
 * \sh -> meeting
<nxvl> Damascene: and then click on every link?
<Damascene> no
<nxvl> Damascene: did you have any idea how many links that could be?
<Damascene> in downthemall you can make it download every thing on the page
<Damascene> I did it and yes I know
<Damascene> I used that way when I had slow internet connection
<nxvl> Damascene: ok, let's take maco's example of people in the library, usually the users are not able to install anything on the machines
<Damascene> ok. they have firefox
<nxvl> maybe not
<Damascene> just install downthemall
<maco> they *maybe* have firefox
<maco> they have internet explorer
<nxvl> i will say we will need to think of an o-o-t-b windows system without the posibility to install anything else
<nxvl> same for mac
<maco> agreed
<Damascene> they can use freedownloadmanager which it has portable version and can import links from txt files
<maco> im willing to take on figuring out the windows stuff as i will soon be required by my employer to learn C#/.NET and have a windows vm
<nxvl> maco: mono
<nxvl> maco: :D
<Damascene> the problem is not with getting the package in windows
<Damascene> it's with getting the updated software list
<nxvl> not really, that's kinda trivial
<Damascene> nxvl, which thing? using freedownloadmanger?
<nxvl> i just thing is completely wrong to tell a user: go download this closed source software to be able to update your open source system
<maco> Damascene: run "dpkg --get-selections > current_packages" and then just put the current_packages file on the flash drive with the program
<nxvl> Damascene: nop, the getting the list
<maco> have an import option in the program to look at the current list of installed packages and from there it can figure out what packages will need to be upgraded to get from karmic to lucid
<Damascene> nxvl, freendowloadmanager is opensource
<nxvl> oh ok then :D
<maco> actually, better: dpkg -ll
<maco> bah -l
<nxvl> does it need to be installed?
<nxvl> maco: again, it's not GUI :D
<nxvl> maco: apt-offline will be better
<maco> nxvl: hmm i dont know about this
<maco> i was just thinking if you need a way to fnd out whats installed so that you can tell the other-os-downloady-thingy that info, dpkg -l would do it
<nxvl> maco: we need to think on our user base, we don't expect them to be techical users
<nxvl> maco: and CLI can really scare non tech users
<Damascene> for now I would be thankful if you just give me the software list in zipped file. and I'll take care of the rest
<maco> nxvl: true
<maco> nxvl: does apt-offline have a gui?
<kklimonda> what are actual use cases we are discussing? installation of the new software, updating software in a distribution and updating distribution to a newer release?
<maco> kklimonda: pretty much
<nxvl> maco: well, actually the idea is to go to the ubuntu web page, get what apt-get update gets you in you system, but for offline usage, then put that on you system, then generate a list of what needs to be updated (a download-packages script) then take that to library again and be happy
<nxvl> maco: no it doesn't, but what i mean is that  CLI tools are a lot out there
<kklimonda> what happens if users use alternative cd to perform a dist upgrade and they don't have internet connection?
<nxvl> kklimonda: actually all of them :D
<maco> kklimonda: shortcut ;-)
<maco> kklimonda: but remember that wont upgrade the bits that were installed from universe, if they exist
<nxvl> kklimonda: actually i will take dist-upgrade out of the picture, because you can basically use an ubuntu CD to do that
<maco> i had some brokenness when i upgraded to edy that way :(
<maco> *edgy
<kklimonda> maco, I know - that's why I am asking :)
<nxvl> in that case you will need to use both, the idea we are discussing for universe, and the ubuntu cd for the core system
<mvo> cdrom upgrades should work just fine, it may become a bit of a problem if you had a cdrom install, then did a lot of package installs with network and then later upgrade without net, that may lead to it being not able to perform the upgrade
<tkamppeter> pitti, thank you for your quick passing through of the SRU on s-c-p, can you do the same with the Ghostscript SRU, it is segfaulting of GS when using CUPS Raster drivers (bug 539708).
<maco> mvo: yep thats what i did from dapper to edgy :P
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 539708 in ghostscript "/usr/lib/cups/filter/pdftoraster failed " [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/539708
<maco> mvo: i had a dadgy system for a bit there :P
<mvo> hihi
<StevenK> At one UDS I had a Gardy system for a while -- it was stuck between Gutsy and Hardy
<nxvl> mvo: that's why this need to be a way to use offline "apt-get" what i was thinking is dowloading the Packages.gz and all that stuff in a format the plugin/app/* can read it and pass it to apt (/var/lib/apt/lists/) then generate the needs-update list or to-install list
<mvo> Damascene: what was the bugnumber of the report?
<mvo> Damascene: for this feature I mean
<StevenK> nxvl: A tool like that already exists, I just can't remember what it's called.
<Damascene> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/251378
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 251378 in synaptic "Synaptic's Generate download script does not update package lists" [Wishlist,Triaged]
<nxvl> StevenK: is it integrated with software center?
<Damascene> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/572776
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 572776 in ubuntu "Ubuntu should provide update packages for download and use for offline users" [Undecided,New]
<StevenK> nxvl: No, it's like 6 years old
<maco> nxvl: whereas i was thinking that you should only need to make one trip to the internets. put a list of whats currently installed into a file, go to the internets, import that list, and have a program download the Packages.gz, figure out what is needed, and do the downloading
<nxvl> StevenK: :D
<Damascene> mvo, got the links?
<nxvl> maco: that *can* work aswell, but it will need more server-side computing
<mvo> yes
<maco> nxvl: or a smarter gui
<nxvl> maco: which i don't see possible, or at least realistic
<nxvl> maco: or a windows app that does that for you
<nxvl> windows/mac/linux
<StevenK> https://alioth.debian.org/projects/apt-offline/
<nxvl> StevenK: what soren just mentioned :D
<Damascene> maco, your idea is really nice. but what I suggested will work with the tools we have in hand
<nxvl> StevenK: can you please tell debian sysadmins to update the ssl certs
<StevenK> nxvl: "Meh"
<nxvl> StevenK: :D
<nxvl> i hate insomnia
<mr_pouit> pitti: are calls to libhal{,storage} supposed to start hal? It doesn't seem to happen (Bug #546992 - thunar doesn't call hal directly, it only uses it through libhal for removable devices).
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 546992 in policykit-1 "Xubuntu 10.04 usb automount fails if autologin is on" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/546992
<nxvl> well, will try to get some sleep, read yoy tomorrow
<Damascene> StevenK, that need two ubutnu machines. right?
<StevenK> Damascene: I think set up requires a Ubuntu machine that is off the net, and some Linux machine that is on the Internet
<Damascene> StevenK, is there a apt-offline for rpm based?
<StevenK> Damascene: I have no idea, I've not used a RPM-based distro for 9 years
<Damascene> :)
<joaopinto> good morning
<pitti> mr_pouit: yes, they should start hal
<pitti> mr_pouit: that just won't work if the program explicitly checks if hal is running before trying to connect to it (e. g. lshal does that)
<joaopinto> slangasek, shouldn't the "-d" on update-manager be dropped on the release notes ?
<mvo> joaopinto: for 8.04 -> 10.04 we still need either -d or --proposed as its not yet enabled by default
<joaopinto> mvo, but is it safe once maverick is setup ?
<mr_pouit> pitti: I couldn't find any check like that for thunar (quick grep), so apparently it doesn't start it (or start it too late, since it only happens on autologin?)
<joaopinto> mvo, it doesn't comply with the "-d" purpose ;)
<pitti> mr_pouit: might be a race condition, yes
<pitti> but it still sounds weird
<pitti> mr_pouit: does it work for you?
<mvo> joaopinto: yeah, this is why I think "--proposed" is better, less confusing
<joaopinto> Keybuk, where do the "Checking disks" messages come from ? mountall or plymouth ?
<mr_pouit> pitti: I don't have access to my system, and I don't use autologin (I didn't feel very confident to use autologin with an encrypted /home...)
<pitti> mr_pouit: it wouldn't work, right
<pitti> mr_pouit: I mean, does it work for you without autologin?
<pitti> mr_pouit: if it does, then it's not a principal problem with dbus activation and libhal, but rather a race condition somewhere
<mr_pouit> pitti: ah yes, it worked
<joaopinto> the "Checking disks for errors" should provide a reason, for the inexperienced user a random "Check disk for error" without a motive could lead to wrong interpretation
<mr_pouit> pitti: and some comments on the bug report state that it works correctly if they log out/log in after the first autologin
<pitti> mr_pouit: seems that it doesn't deal too well with that unexpected delay of hal's answer perhaps?
<pitti> cjwatson: I'm merging debhelper, FTR
<mr_pouit> pitti: well, I just grepped again in thunar & thunar-volman source code, and they use libhal_* functions... So I guess that somewhere libhal returns the wrong status that let think thunar that hal isn't available...
<pitti> cjwatson: (uploaded)
<hyperair> what's "TREE" and "MERGE-SOURCE" in bzr rebase context?
<hyperair> ugh, bzr is such a pain to use.
<pitti> just as with merges, remote vs. local version?
<hyperair> pitti: which is which?
<pitti> tree -> local
<hyperair> is TREE local, or MERGE-SOURCE local?
<pitti> (at least with merges)
<hyperair> well i thought that would be so
<hyperair> but then i removed all the "-l" from all su invocations in my local tree, but they're in the "TREE" section
<hyperair> ugh
<hyperair> so i thought it might be the other way round, but it doesn't seem right either
<hyperair> honestly, why can't bzr be more straightforward, like git?
<pitti> rotfl
 * hyperair kicks bzr
<pitti> hyperair: well, it should be in either tree or merge-source? there's no third party involved there
<hyperair> @_@
<hyperair> well i think i got it. i think.
 * hyperair sighs.
<hyperair> pitti: is there a way to force-push a branch?
<pitti> bzr push --overwrite
<hyperair> it complains about diverged-branches since i've rebased
<pitti> hyperair: oh, you rebased a publicly pushed branch?
<pitti> (that's why rebasing is bad :) )
<hyperair> pitti: i was asked to rebase by crankyadmin
<hyperair> whoops
<hyperair> bad tab complete
<hyperair> crimsun:
<hyperair> pitti: it's a one-fix thing anyway
<pitti> --overwrite is the equivalent of git push -f
<hyperair> ah okay, thanks
<crankyadmin> ?!?.... /me knows nothing....
<hyperair> crankyadmin: yeah sorry i typed cr and tabcompleted, and your name came out
<crankyadmin> np
<arand> Is tasksel supposed to be usable on an in-use system?
<joaopinto> arand, I think so
<joaopinto> arand, at least the wiki entry for LAMP advises to use tasksel
<arand> joaopinto: Hmm, well the old wiki doc states that it shouldn't really be used outside a liveCD, I was just thinking how valid my Bug #574287 actually was...
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 574287 in tasksel "tasksel uninstalled my system!" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/574287
<sits> I can't tell if this is the right channel
<sits> but using a custom compiled kernel with 10.04 seems to stop plymouth from starting (it seems to segfault)
<ion> If the standard kernel works, your kernel is probably configured incorrectly.
<sits> ion: indeed - but the next question is how is it misconfigured :)
<sits> it has KMS in it already so that's not a problem
<tkamppeter> pitti, hi
<sits> things are muddied further because it seems really hard to get plymouth going on a "normal" kernel if I boot to single user mode first
<sits> (e.g. boot to single user mode then boot to runlevel 5 then try and start plymouth)
<sits> it does the VT switching but no splash screen is displayed
<pitti> hi tkamppeter
<arand> joaopinto: Hmm, well the old wiki doc states that it shouldn't really be used outside a liveCD, I was just thinking how valid my Bug #574287 actually was...
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 574287 in tasksel "tasksel uninstalled my system!" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/574287
<arand> joaopinto: Sorry, ignore.
<joaopinto> arand, the bug seems valid to me, there is nothing on the manapage which refers *install only*
<joaopinto> anyway if that was the case why should it allow to remove packages during the install :) ?
<narendra> HI,,
<tkamppeter> pitti, I see you have worked on the SRU of bug 564633. You have put it to "Fix Released" and then back to "Fix Committed". What did you actually do?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 564633 in system-config-printer "system-config-printer: make driver installation optional" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/564633
<narendra> I am working on custom live DVD, may you want to share your experince with me
<arand> joaopinto: Aha!, Think I figured it out it removes the whole of ubuntu-desktop, provided you have manaually removed the ubuntu-desktop meta pkg earlier...
<narendra> I am creating a 2.5GB live iso of ubuntu , but i am worry about distributing and installation methods
<kklimonda> tkamppeter: an update from -proposed has been copied over to maverick and it's fixed there. it's still not fixed in lucid so a new task has been opened.
<narendra> we need to distribute this iso to hundreds of schools in India
<tkamppeter> kklimonda, pitti: So for Lucid it is still in the "verification needed" mode?
<kklimonda> tkamppeter: yes
<tkamppeter> pitti, this SRU is a fix of the problem for most users, but there is a second problem with the Kyocera FS-1800+ of the poster of the bug for which I have created a three-line patch now. How should this be handled? Replace the current SRU by a new one with this patch added or wait for this SRU to be closed and then post a second SRU?
<narendra> Dear developers, please show some lights,,,,,,,,,,
<joaopinto> narendra, I am not sure which kind of guidance are you looking for :) do you have a specific doubt ?
<narendra> joaopinto, yes, basically, I am making a SchoolOS livd DVD, 2.5 GB ubuntu karmic based
<narendra> joaopinto, which is going to distribute in various schools of india at mass level
<narendra> joaopinto, but the problem, is i am unable to figure out the distribution method.
<joaopinto> karmic is a bad option, specially for a large distribution
<narendra> joaopinto, then what should i choose ?
<joaopinto> narendra, lucid, because it's a long term support release
<narendra> joaopinto, http://schoolos.org this is indias biggest foss implentation project
<narendra> joaopinto, I afraid of bugs, and it is very recently released
<joaopinto> narendra, your question hints that you are not prepared yet for such a large task :)
<narendra> joaopinto, I have prepared beta version using karmic,,
<joaopinto> narendra, right, but there are greater chances of having the bug fixes, compared to karmic
<narendra> joaopinto, iso size is  2.1GB big.,
<narendra> joaopinto, but schools hardware maynot be able to boot 2.1GB live iso image
<narendra> joaopinto, If i send , LiveDVD, then ram size is issue....
<pitti> tkamppeter: I copied lucid-proposed to maverick; this causes some confusing LP bug spam, sorry about that
<joaopinto> narendra, you are starting the way around, first you have the image and the OS ready, and now you are checking the requirements :) ?
<narendra> joaopinto, See idea from day one is to give big DVD with all software because many schools do not nave Internet or have limited bandwidth to download updates,,
<pitti> tkamppeter: you are welcome to upload a followup SRU; if you do that, please use debuild -S -v 1.2.0+20100408-0ubuntu5 (this will make both changelogs appear in the sources.changes)
<narendra> joaopinto, I think live USB is a good option, live usb won't be that show as live DVD
<tkamppeter> pitti, thanks, I will do so.
<tkamppeter> pitti, can you approve the SRU of Ghostscript for bug 539708? Thanks.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 539708 in ghostscript "/usr/lib/cups/filter/pdftoraster failed " [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/539708
<pitti> tkamppeter: I'll have a look at it soon; but it's a very complicated patch, thus will take a bit
<tkamppeter> pitti, Daniel J Blueman has reported in the upstream bug report at Ghostscript that it fixed segfaults on 2032 files for him.
<pitti> tkamppeter: ugh, on how many did he test it? :-)
<tkamppeter> pitti, this I do not know, at least he had many segfaults and these segfaults have gone away for him.
<pitti> nice
<tkamppeter> pitti, for me I also did not succeed to make Ghostscript segfaulting any more when converting PDF to CUPS raster.
<tkamppeter> pitti, new s-c-p SRU uploaded.
<sianis> asac: could you review this merge? https://code.launchpad.net/~sianis/desktop-webmail/hungarian-translations/+merge/24562
<ari-tczew> seb128: could you open a task on karmic in bug 574262 ? I want to prepare a patch to fix it by sru.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 574262 in gdm "Please backport to Karmic GDM fix for bug #463376" [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/574262
<seb128> ari-tczew, sorry I've to run for lunch now, will have a look later
<ari-tczew> in total anyone could open a task in above bug, please
<seb128> ari-tczew, why do you care about it? users who need the feature will have moved away from karmic since and new installs will be lucid
<seb128> there is no reason to install karmic over lucid now
<seb128> lunch, bbl
<patrick42h> sun's coming up, time for bed
<ari-tczew> seb128: bug-requester says that he administrate 18 computers based on karmic, so I think that would be nice help him, or not?
<asac> sianis: yep. thanks. will look at that when i get to that merge request email ;)
<highvoltage> is maverick open for uploads yet?
<ajmitch> don't think it's quite open, though there've been toolchain uploads
<Laney> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/maverick-changes/2010-May/thread.html
<james_w> it's frozen, so you can upload and everything will just land in UNAPPROVED anyway
<james_w> it will probably be a day or two before it is fully open
<pitti> gcc-4.5 FTBFSed
<Laney> lp/ubuntu/maverick just times out :(
<highvoltage> james_w: ok great
<ari-tczew> where maverick is looking in Debian? testing or unstable?
<near> does anyone knows why every time i reboot my desktop settings go back to default?
<near> I have to set up the dual monitors configuration and the wallpaper all over again
<lool> james_w: Hmm, ISTR I could branch from lp:debian/unstable/foo as well as lp:debian/sid/foo, was it my fantasy?  I can't with lp:debian/unstable/logcheck at least
<lool> james_w: Also, logcheck 1.3.8 was uploaded 2010-04-15, but that didn't make it to the sid branch
<lool> Hmm it's listed in the 16738 outstanding jobs at http://package-import.ubuntu.com/status/
<Lutin> Keybuk: would you have any clue as to why upstart would hang upon receiving a 'amba-device-added' event on startup ?
<james_w> lool: no, you can't do that, there's a bug open on LP requesting that feature
<james_w> lool: and the importer is currently paused while we open maverick
<james_w> should be unpaused today or tomorrow
<lool> james_w: Ok
<lool> james_w: It's been uploaded 15+ days ago though
<lool> But I guess there was some backlog for whatever reason
<lool> james_w: thanks for checking
<james_w> lool: hmm, let me look then
<james_w> lool: that was because launchpad hasn't seen it yet for some reason: https://edge.launchpad.net/debian/+source/logcheck/+publishinghistory
<pitti> Keybuk: hm, it seems ureadahead reads the queue/rotational attribute for deciding between SSD and HDD
<pitti> Keybuk: did you ever see that lie? I'm ssh'ed to a bug reporter's machine with an SSD, and all /sys/dev/block/*/queue/rotational are 1
<pitti> that might cause ureadahead to not perform optimally?
<lool> james_w: Ok thanks
<pitti> Keybuk: (it's correct on the mini, though)
<pitti> tkamppeter: ghostscript and new s-c-p accepted
<Lutin> Keybuk: and more importantly, would you know what could generate this amba-device-added event ?
<zul> pitt: is it possible to accept the landscape-client in *-proposed...thanks
<pitti> zul: can you please reupload the karmic one with correct -v? it's two new versions in one
<zul> pitti: sure
<pitti> zul: jaunty, too; please upload with e. g. -v1.4.4-0ubuntu0.9.04 for jaunty
<pitti> (or merge the changelogs)
<zul> pitti: will do
<pitti> zul: thanks
<dholbach> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek starting in 23m in #ubuntu-classroom
<tkamppeter> pitti, thanks.
<ari-tczew> seb128: ping
<seb128> ari-tczew, hey
<ari-tczew> seb128, so what about bug 574262 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 574262 in gdm "Please backport to Karmic GDM fix for bug #463376" [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/574262
<seb128> yes?
<seb128> sorry I'm at a sprint right now
<seb128> i.e busy with other things
<ari-tczew> aha ...
<seb128> if you want to work on it get a debdiff on the bug and subscribe sponsors
<seb128> I've no interest in the issue to be honest, as said people are dealing that for 6 months now and should be moving to lucid now
<seb128> i.e I don't want to spend time on karmic...
<zul> pitti: it looks like i cant nominate bugs for lucid sru's is there anything i need to do?
<smoser> cjwatson, what is the bug number of the plymouth bug you were chasing on thurdsay (that resulted in your posts at http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/plymouth/2010-April/thread.html#350)
<El_Presidente> im sorry if i bug in here but im not sure if that bug report i filed is enough to tell the devs what error i have https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/572146
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 572146 in alsa-driver "crackling sound from microphone with 2.6.32-21 kernel" [Undecided,New]
<crankyadmin> El_Presidente, "HOW TO GET FIXEX NO SOUND IS NO FUN I NEED CRISPY SOUND SYSTEM 5.1HOW TO GET FIXEX NO SOUND IS NO FUN I NEED CRISPY SOUND SYSTEM 5.1" Wtf?!?!
<El_Presidente> thatzs not mine :(
<maco> wow caps
<crankyadmin> my bad! :D
<El_Presidente> im sorry for that nerd but thats not me
<El_Presidente> crankyadmin, any suggestions what information i can add?
<crankyadmin> El_Presidente, nope. Although I would have my finger on Alsa screwing with interrupts for what ever reason.
<El_Presidente> crankyadmin, i did a fresh installation of 10.04 on a second harddrive to avoid upgrade bugs
<El_Presidente> but the error is still present
<El_Presidente> but thank you ;)
<crankyadmin> It is more likely a change that has been made within the drivers. Someone will pick it up...
<El_Presidente> ok
<El_Presidente> is there a way to remove the spam comment?
<sits> hi I've been trying to debug a mountall issue
<sits> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mountall/+bug/571707
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 571707 in mountall "fsck progress stalls at boot, plymouthd/mountall eats CPU" [High,Confirmed]
<arand> sits: Ask the question-proper ;) (I'm also poking in that one as you might've noticed, you got anything interesting?)
<sits> arand: :)
<sits> it seems to happen with multiple themes
<sits> a backlog seems to be build up
<sits> and when I try and trace it the last thing I get is inside the plymouth library
<sits> arand: I genuinely think it could be down to plymouth being sent thousands of messages
<sits> e.g. 80% 80% 80%... 81% 81% 81% etc.
<sits> arand: I'm wondering if the progress bar is being read too frequently
<arand> sits: Hmm, well I ran it with plymouth:debug and it does spew a bunch of messages, but not overly frequently, so I*m not sure if that's it...
<sits> arand: duplicates apparently get weeded out
<sits> but the question becomes at what stage?
<arand> sits: Hmm, I wrote the log to file and since I pretty much left it running for an hour or two I only have 91% as the lowest thing in the log, of which there are 1658 occurences, but I've no idea if that says anything..
<sits> well it suggests some filtering could take place I guess
<sits> the progress needs to be read and sent less frequently
<sits> but that suggests you were only getting updated every second
<arand> sits: Ah, no that's only for the messages stating  "91%" However it must've remained at that point for more than 2-10 minutes though.. I think
<sits> hmm scratch that
<sits> ah ok
<arand> *5-10
<sits> my question is does fsck really generate that many updates
<sits> or are some being synthesized?
<arand> The speed at which the precentage in the plymouth splash increases is definitely quicker that the interval at which the debug messages are being printed if switching out to the debug via arrowkey.
<sits> arand: well in my case the fsck is finished in seconds
<sits> but then the updates keep being sent
<sits> arand: we could do with a breakpoint in fsck_reader
<sits> to see how often plymouth_progress is really called
 * arand felt something whosh over his head just there
<Tm_T> arand: yeah, we have some bats around here, just ignore them
<arand> sits: Yea... I'm severely lacking in that gdm-fu you speak of...
<sits> arand: ah 'tis a pity
<sits> you see to have a better setup for testing this than me
<arand> sits: but if you want me to copy-paste commands I'm all ears :)
<sits> do you have more than one system?
<arand> sits: I'm using a virtualbox
<sits> ah good good
<sits> arand: ok first you need to go to runlevel 1
<sits> er
<sits> let me msg you
<shtylman> did something happen to libactiverecord-ruby ?
<Pici> shtylman: see debian #574154
<ubottu> Debian bug 574154 in ftp.debian.org "RM: libactiverecord-ruby, libactivesupport-ruby" [Normal,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/574154
<shtylman> Pici: thanks
<robertzaccour> i recently discovered a bug, reported it this morning. i did apport-collect but don't see anything added to the report
<robertzaccour> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/574406 thats the bug
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 574406 in ubuntu "Audio capture doesn't record anything." [Undecided,New]
<narendra> hi
<robertzaccour> i recently discovered a bug, reported it this morning. i did apport-collect but don't see anything added to the report
<robertzaccour> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/574406 thats the bug
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 574406 in ubuntu "Audio capture doesn't record anything." [Undecided,New]
<narendra> may anybody tell me how to build ubuntu ? I mean what script ubuntu developer use to create ubuntu distribution
<robertzaccour> thats the bug
<narendra> may anybody tell me how to build Ubuntu ? I mean what script Ubuntu developer use to create Ubuntu distribution... I want to learn about Ubuntu build process
<jdong> pitti: ack sorry, end of term life has been hectic. which bugs would you like me to look at?
<robertzaccour> me?
<robertzaccour> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/574406 thats the bug
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 574406 in ubuntu "Audio capture doesn't record anything." [Undecided,New]
<cjs> Two release note issues:
<cjs> 1. The 10.04 release notes still go to http://www.ubuntu.com/testing/lucid/beta1, which claims it's still in beta.
<cjs> 2. This should really go in the release notes: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/qemu-kvm/+bug/574665
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 574665 in qemu-kvm "kvm + virtio disk corrupts large volumes (>1TB)." [Undecided,New]
<narendra> anybody give some hint
<narendra>  how to build Ubuntu ? I mean what script Ubuntu developer use to create Ubuntu distribution... I want to learn about Ubuntu build process
<cjs> narendra: It's not on the wiki?
<respire> sorry to ask a support(ish) question but its to support my dev. Synaptic somehow knows that I chose to use root not sudo to execute priviliged instructions. How does it know this, more to the point how can I make my program know this
<Pici> cjs: The first should be filed as a bug in the ubuntu-website project on launchpad
 * respire can think of several ways to do it but wasnts to be consistent with the "ubuntu way"
<narendra> cjs : I think not
<robertzaccour> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/574406
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 574406 in ubuntu "Audio capture doesn't record anything." [Undecided,New]
<robertzaccour> thats the bug i reported this morning
<narendra> cjs: wiki contains how to make custom live CD, It tell about remastering or spining distro but not about the actual build process
<robertzaccour> ok added stuff to the bug report
<robertzaccour> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/574406
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 574406 in linux "Audio capture doesn't record anything." [Undecided,New]
<robertzaccour> any hope?
<robertzaccour> i'm gonna get a plug in mic and see how my luck is
<baptistemm_> there is no way to have voice on #ubuntu-kernel
<JFo> baptistemm_, there is, but your nick must be registered with FreeNode
<baptistemm_> hmm, okay thanks
<JFo> np\
<xaver__> hi Keybuk
<qense> http://popcon.ubuntu.com/ seems to have troubles with loading images on the overview page.
<ccheney> jcastro: did you see the 3s lucid boot?
<jcastro> what?
<ccheney> http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=9124494&postcount=404
<ccheney> well 3.14s to be exact
<ccheney> later in the thread he mentioned a couple optimizations he did to speed it up
<ccheney> noop scheduler and preempt kernel apparently
<bluefoxicy> why does firefox not render anything until it has images ~_~
<nxvl> kees: can you please add me to ubuntu-sponsors
<kees> nxvl: sure, one sec
<xnox> Is there a package which is ubuntu-required ubuntu-base
<xnox> generated from the seeds
<xnox> asking because I'm helping to bootstrap ubuntu lucid without using debootstrap
<kees> nxvl: done
<xnox> or am I better off just sending the list generated by deboostrap --print-debs
<nxvl> kees: thanks
#ubuntu-devel 2010-05-04
<maco> so... anyone in here heading to debconf this summer?
<ajmitch> wish I could, but it's a little far, and a little too expensive
<soren> Where is it?
<ajmitch> NYC
<soren> Ah.
<soren> ajmitch: Everything is a little far from you, isn't it? :)
<soren> Can you get to anywhere useful in less than 10 hours?
<soren> :p
<ajmitch> well, australia isn't that useful :)
<imbrandon> maco: i plan to as of now, but things may change
<maco> mmk i think im going to try to take a chinatown bus up to nyc
<akgraner> kirkland, ping
<akgraner> is there a wiki for byobu - I can't seem to find it - or is your blog post about byobu 2.0 what I should link to?
<psusi> jdong, you ready to play with defrag? ;)
<psusi> jdong, I got it revved up much faster now, and I *think* I have the extent tree code right
<bluefoxicy> so
<bluefoxicy> an acquaintance of mine is bitching that the way Ubuntu handles language packages is stupid
<bluefoxicy> (while offering up that the way DEbian does it isn't much better; and that all other current solutions are hilariously bad)
<bluefoxicy> ... I told him I just bought the Pimsleur German course, and a fantasy fiction book I already have but in German
<bluefoxicy> and proceeded to go on about how I'm having more difficulty installing language packs than him; and that the repos are slow and the installer seems to be even more slow
<crimsun> mdz: it's unlikely I'll be able to debug prior to UDS-M
<anon^_^> Is this where you can reach members of the "Ubuntu Development Team?"
<crimsun> anon^_^: yes, and ubuntu-devel@
<anon^_^> I'm trying to get one package in the Ubuntu Repository rolled back to an earlier version for lucid
<anon^_^> and one package for another project backported
<anon^_^> they're maintained by the Ubuntu Development Team
<anon^_^> Bugs have been filed on launchpad, but it doesn't seem like UDT actually reads the bug reports
<crimsun> anon^_^: which reports? And yes, nearly all members read bug reports consistently.
<anon^_^> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kftpgrabber/+bug/559245
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 559245 in kftpgrabber "KFTGabber(Version 0.8.99) doesn't start transfer in lucid beta" [Undecided,New]
<anon^_^> Kftpgrabber
<crimsun> anon^_^: however, some people have scarce resources (probably like you), so a bit of patience is well appreciated.
<anon^_^> this project is pretty much dead, it's a nice ftp app, but development on it ceased nearly 2 years ago
<anon^_^> last stable release was 2 years ago
<mathiaz> kees: hi!
<anon^_^> the devs from that project started work on a KDE4 port, but it was at an alpha stage of development missing features
<mathiaz> kees: I'd like to develop a script that gives the list of promotion to main needed to pull a package in main
<anon^_^> that's what the SVN is largely based on
<mathiaz> kees: ie: promoto-to-main condor -> returns the list of other source packages that would be required to promote to main as well
<anon^_^> I wrote some instructions up how to compile from SVN around six months ago, in the answer section on launchpad
<mathiaz> kees: do you have an idea of how to do that?
<anon^_^> it seems someone from UDT read the direction on how to compile, but didn't read that the SVN build is not really usable
<anon^_^> the SVN build is what is currently available in the lucid and meerkat repository
<crimsun> anon^_^: I think you may have a bit more cogent response in #kubuntu-devel to be honest
<anon^_^> ok
<anon^_^> some basically they need to rollback to the last stable release for that
<anon^_^> another issue is with gparted
<ajmitch> from the look of things, the SVN snapshot is from debian
<anon^_^> seperate app, but fairly important
<anon^_^> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gparted/+bug/574106
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 574106 in gparted "Request backport of gparted 0.5.2-9 (Important UPDATE - LVM fix)" [Undecided,New]
<anon^_^> gparted 0.5.2-9 was released May 3rd, 2010
<anon^_^> not really complaining about someone not noticing this bugreport yet
<anon^_^> but earlier gparted versions had a regression where you could not edit/delete or resize any partition where an active LVM was present on the device
<anon^_^> so if you installed your os on an LVM, you're hosed
<anon^_^> The version of gparted in the lucid and meerkat repos has this regression
<kirkland> akgraner: pong
<Damascene> nxvl, hi
<Damascene> I want to talk about bug #572776
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 572776 in ubuntu "Ubuntu should provide update packages for download and use for offline users" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/572776
<persia> Damascene: Does aptoncd not work for that?
<Damascene> hi persia,
<Damascene> he just added some comments on that bug I want to discuss with him
<Damascene> no
<Damascene> we have a long discussion about it yesterday
<nxvl> here
<Damascene> ok
<nxvl> the comment was basically the summary of what we talked last night (or around 20 hours ago whatever that was in your tz)
<nxvl> persia: not it doesn't
<Damascene> it's actually enough to provide txt file with the links for 4
<Damascene> no need to write special script that will work on windows too
<nxvl> from no need to will be cool is a difference :D
<nxvl> also will be kind of hard to generate a list of downloadable packages, since you have lots of mirrors
<nxvl> also maco's idea was good, generate a state of the system file, then get with that to an online machine and get the updates, so you only have one trip to the internet
<Damascene> I know it's good.
<Damascene> I just thought the last comment made it look harder to implement
<nxvl> nope it doesn't
<Damascene> sudo apt-get update --print-uris
<Damascene> gives you the update links
<Damascene> if you download them and put them in the place you might be able to start with something
<Damascene> but the naming is different than the thing in /etc/apt/sources.list.d/
<kees> mathiaz: sure.  you'd just recursively examine all Depends: lines
<mathiaz> kees: and recommends as well
<kees> mathiaz: right, yeah.  which element were you curious about?
<mathiaz> kees: well - basically I want to find out how much would be required to promote condor to main
<mathiaz> kees: in the past we've been burned a couple of times with dependencies not being MIRed when the promotion was done
<mathiaz> kees: so I'd like to have a reliable way to figure out *every* source package that will be promoted to main to get one source package as well
<Damascene> nxvl, does the apt-get update store things in /etc/apt/sources.list.d/ or were
<mathiaz> kees: so I'd like to have a reliable way to figure out *every* source package that would need to be promoted to main given one source package
<kees> mathiaz: there isn't a perfect way to do with due to alternates.  i.e  Depends: pkg1 | pkg2
<kees> mathiaz: but if you just throw away alternates, you can probably get pretty close.
<mathiaz> kees: right - do you know of a script that does such a thing?
<kees> mathiaz: nope
<mathiaz> kees: if not, would you recommend starting in python or bash?
<kees> python.
<mathiaz> kees: it seems that python-apt doesn't have every info required
<kees> mathiaz: what's missing?
<persia> Can't apt-rdepends do both forward- and reverse- analysis to address this issue?
<mathiaz> kees: let me try again in ipython
<kees> persia: yeah, but it's dumb about conflicts, recommends, etc
<kees> mathiaz: I've found doing it by hand to be much simpler.
<kees> mathiaz: if you get to like 4 things not already in main, it's a good case to discourge putting it in main.  ;)
<mathiaz> kees: :)
<mathiaz> kees: well - that doesn't help in giving an estimate on what needs to be done ;)
<kees> mathiaz: for each of the pkg1 | pkg2 bits, you probably want to check each one for them being in main first, and then if non found, recurse through pkg1.
<persia> apt-get --dry-run --print-uris install ${PACKAGE} | grep universe might be a quick way to get a list (dunno how robust it would be)
<kees> mathiaz: right.  :)
<mathiaz> persia: hm - that's a quick hack :)
<mathiaz> persia: how about build-dependencies?
<mathiaz> persia: s/install/build-dep/ ?
<kees> persia: oh, yeah, good one
<nxvl> Damascene: /var/lib/apt/lists/
<persia> mathiaz: Sure.
 * mathiaz tries
<kees> best to start from a clean main-only chroot though
<mathiaz> kees: yes
<Damascene> nxvl, thanks, I'll update the report
<Damascene> brb
<mathiaz> persia: hm - universe/main is not available in the output
<mathiaz> persia: http://paste.ubuntu.com/427334/
<nxvl> mathiaz: i remember i did that in barcelona for the remove sudo from the system
<nxvl> or something like that
<nxvl> kees: did you remember?
<persia> mathiaz: Seems --dry-run and --print-uris don't play nice together.
<nxvl> oh! no, i generated a list of packages that depended on sudo
<nxvl> nevermind
<mathiaz> persia: right - I've removed --dry-run - works good
<mathiaz> persia: now I just need to iterate on the list
<persia> mathiaz: I had to use -y for my test.  Remember *not* to use sudo :)
<mathiaz> persia: :) - I'm testing in schroot using lvm snapshots
<persia> mathiaz: So old school.  aufs-schroots are the new rage :)
<mathiaz> persia: and --print-uris seems to induce dry-run
<mathiaz> kees: ^^ have you heard that - lvm is sooo 2009
<persia> It doesn't.  --print-uris expects you to go download stuff separately.  I suspect --dry-run skips the actual deb fetch, and --print-uris is hooked into that to print the URI rather than fetching it.
<kees> persia: can do --download-only
<kees> mathiaz: yup, aufs is the new hotness
<persia> kees: For which?
<kees> persia: for the --print-uris instead of --dry-run
<persia> Oh, nifty.
<mathiaz> And I can get the source package from the pool url
<persia> Yep.  URIs are fairly easy to parse :)
<anon^_^> any comment from Ubuntu Development Team on gparted?
<anon^_^> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gparted/+bug/574106
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 574106 in gparted "Request backport of gparted 0.5.2-9 (Important UPDATE - LVM fix)" [Undecided,New]
<persia> anon^_^: We don't typically use backports for bugfixes (and that bug isn't against a backport project).  Do you maybe want an SRU for that?
<anon^_^> yeah that would be nice
<Damascene> persia, may I pm?
<micahg> Amaranth: ping
<Amaranth> wow good timing
<Amaranth> just got home
<micahg> Amaranth: hi, I've got quite a few bug reports re compiz/Thunderbird
<micahg> one example is bug 564011
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 564011 in thunderbird "Thunderbird 3.0.4 windowing issues (Lucid Lynx)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/564011
<Amaranth> well compiz hasn't changed so... :)
<micahg> Amaranth: indeed, I just noticed that
<micahg> Amaranth: k, I guess I'll go search/complain to upstream
<Amaranth> sounds like they probably tried and failed to implement the _NET_WM_SYNC protocol
<micahg> Amaranth: ok, I can research that, thanks
<Amaranth> micahg: Plus the second person in that bug report is probably using kwin effects
<micahg> Amaranth: I have another 5 people with compiz, but does kwin also try to implement those protocols?
<Amaranth> micahg: I know they were bragging about finally doing smooth resize of GTK+ apps which would require that
<micahg> Amaranth: ok, I think I have enough to search with now, thanks so much for your help
<Damascene> persia, nxvl , I've created this page
<Damascene> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/damascene/offline%20update
<Damascene> please look at it
<Damascene> bug 572776 if any one else interested
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 572776 in ubuntu "Ubuntu should provide update packages for download and use for offline users" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/572776
<persia> Damascene: I'm still not sure how aptoncd isn't designed specifically to meet the issue you've described.
<Damascene> did you read the last line in Alternative section? persia
<Damascene> it will need you to depend on some person Machine
<persia> Damascene: It depends on *another* machine.
<Damascene> :)
<persia> But any solution depends on another machine.
<Damascene> *some person machine*
<ScottK> persia: That or a point release ISO, right?
<Damascene> persia, it should be ubuntu and not cleaned
<persia> ScottK: But point-release-ISO is already a supported use-case, isn't it?
<Damascene> persia, so you should agree with the man to not clean his system packages
<ScottK> persia: It is.
<Damascene> persia, have you tested Japanese language with mlterm?
<persia> No.
<Damascene> could you do it please?
<Damascene> it should work fine. is there any translation for CLI programs in Japanese?
<persia> There is.  It appears to be fine, although the widgets aren't the same as those in other programs, and it doesn't respect my "system wide" font settings.
<persia> So, likely needs a bit of work to be a default (plus, it's feature poor compared to terminator)
<Damascene> so the problem with vte is only for RTL
<persia> Right.
<YokoZar> Is there a way to specify a different make target with CDBS?  After configure I want to do make foo, not just make
<ccheney> YokoZar: not sure how to do it but afaik you can override anything in CDBS
<ccheney> YokoZar: i haven't used CDBS in so long I have forgotten how to do it
<ajmitch> probably one of the rules in /usr/share/cdbs/1/class/makefile.mk
<YokoZar> ccheney: I checked the documentation and they have special override flags for configure and clean and install but not make :(
<YokoZar> http://cdbs-doc.duckcorp.org/en/cdbs-doc.xhtml#id490459
<ajmitch> YokoZar: tried DEB_BUILD_MAKE_TARGET ?
<ajmitch> sorry, it's meant to be DEB_MAKE_BUILD_TARGET
<YokoZar> ajmitch: no I hadn't tried that, didn't see that in the docs
<StevenK> Like CDBS has docs.
<ajmitch> YokoZar: the source is the best documentation for cdbs
<ccheney> yep rtsl :)
<YokoZar> Fair enough, I'll give it a go
<persia> Note that reading CDBS source may well make one think it's safe to use the undocumented internal interfaces: do *try* to use the documentation first, so that you don't have to redo it when CDBS changes (which does happen)
<ajmitch> persia: the problem is knowing what's safe & what's not
<persia> ajmitch: I believe only that in the documentation is safe, although the rest may be more or less stable.
<ccheney> reading cdbs may also cause you to decide to use debhelper directly instead, this is a good thing ;-)
<persia> Well, with newer debhelper, sure.  With older debhelper, I'm not sure I'd have agreed with that.
<YokoZar> ccheney: Yes, debhelper is my favorite here, but editing a cdbs package generally means using cdbs still ;)
<ccheney> cdbs in general used to at least be very broken
<ccheney> i seem to recall it having issues with rebuilding at times when it shouldn't have
<ccheney> YokoZar: yea :)
<ccheney> my experience with cdbs internals ended in late 2004 so is quite a bit out of date
<xnox> cdbs iterates over all packages wasting time. And it has *way* to many targets for a regular package & package-common
<xnox> somethings are nice, most things are just too: "we are make wizards we can make do anything"
<ccheney> xnox: for very simple packages the wasted time is probably fairly trivial, but probably not for something large like OOo
<xnox> %:
<xnox>       dh $@
<xnox> done
<ccheney> i think i saw some of the issues when using cdbs for kde
<xnox> ccheney, they did create dh_* addons for their needs
 * ccheney is referring to the cdbs/kde from pre 2005
 * xnox was a happy windows XP user in 2005
<slytherin> Auto login does not unlock the default keyring. Is it intentional?
<ScottK> I think so.
<RAOF> slytherin: It *can't* unlock the default keyring, unless that keyring has no password.
<slytherin> RAOF: This is a problem then because default keyring stores even wireless keys. So user can not connect automatically to wireless connection if he chooses auto login.
<slytherin> In that sense using auto login is a loss of functionality.
<RAOF> Well, they can; they just need to set âusable for all usersâ in the connection information (which will also give them the benefit of having the network available in recovery mode)
<RAOF> They could also just set an empty password for the default kerying, in which case it's available.
<persia> If the wieless password is secret enough to not be available to any user, it shouldn't be autoconnected on autologin anyway.
<persia> Anyway, the wireless keys *should* be stored by network-manager, not by the keyring (although the keyring may contain the secrets necessary to get the keys from network-manager).
<persia> imbrandon: Didn't you dig into this recently?
<RAOF> persia: It's not even that - even with a globally available *connection* the user will need to authenticate (via polkit) to view the actual password I think.  That's certainly nm-applet's behaviour.
<persia> That's how it's supposed to work, yeah.
<slytherin> The reason I am asking this is because I have seen some bug reports where users are not aware that this is the root cause.
<persia> NM has it's own secret stores, specifically to enable use in XDG environments, so you have the same set of connections if you switch from KDE to GNOME, etc.
<slytherin> For example, someone setup a headless server with VNC enabled (with password) and autologin. But since the default keyring does not get unlocked the user can not actually connect via VNC.
 * ccheney found a bunch of old deb source on his system
<ccheney> nvidia driver 1.0.1251 heh
<ccheney> hmm all the way back to nvidia 0.9.6 actually
<temugen> Keybuk: OK, I think I've made my final commit to http://bradmisik.com/trunk/fragraph/ unless you have any other features you want. Time to move on to other projects :)
<imbrandon> persia: sorry i was afk
<imbrandon> persia: dig into what? /me reads backlog
<persia> imbrandon: No worries.  We were just discussing NM+keyrings+autologin being confusing to users.
<imbrandon> ahh
<slytherin> rather anything that uses keyring + autologin
<imbrandon> you mean by loggin in they asking for a password right away ;)
<slytherin> No. Autologin does not unlock the default keyring. So when some app uses keyring user is prompted for keyring password.
<persia> slytherin: But this is a good thing, isn't it?  If someone *really* doesn't want to protect any secrets, they should have no password for the default keyring.
<slytherin> right. But this is not obvious for users. Users wonder 'why am I being prompted for password'.
<persia> Right.  It needs thinking about.
<dholbach> good morning
* mthaddon changed the topic of #ubuntu-devel to: Launchpad down/in read-only from 09:00-11:00UTC for a code update | Ubuntu 10.04 LTS is out! | Archive: final freeze | Development of Ubuntu (not support, not app development) | #ubuntu for support and general discussion for dapper-karmic | #ubuntu-app-devel for application development on Ubuntu | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment | See #ubuntu-bugs for http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Help
<cjwatson> smoser: originally bug 569394, although it was a bit of a wild goose chase and I ended up closer to bug 567592
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 569394 in qemu-kvm "Can't use kvm -curses with virtual or ec2 kernels" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/569394
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 567592 in plymouth "rm: cannot remove `/var/lib/urandom/random-seed': Read-only file system" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/567592
 * pitti prepares and uploads a fixed gcc-4.5
<pitti> (talked to doko on the phone)
<pitti> s/uploads/wait until LP is back../
<ajmitch> morning pitti  :)
<pitti> g'day ajmitch! how are you?
* pitti changed the topic of #ubuntu-devel to: Launchpad down/in read-only from 09:00-11:00UTC for a code update | Ubuntu 10.04 LTS is out! | Archive: toolchain freeze, but uploads work | Development of Ubuntu (not support, not app development) | #ubuntu for support and general discussion for dapper-lucid | #ubuntu-app-devel for application development on Ubuntu | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment | See #ubuntu-bugs for http:/
<ajmitch> pitti: good thanks, how are you today?
<pitti> I'm great, thanks!
<pitti> looking forward to maverick
<ajmitch> so am I, hopefully it'll be an interesting cycle
<persia> It's Patch Day!  If anyone has time, please stop by #ubuntu-reviews and help us get patches applied.
<dholbach> persia: Patch Day! 5th May
<dholbach> persia: but you're right - it needs more publicity
<persia> dholbach: No, it just started.
<persia> Remember, it's considerably earlier in some parts of the world :)
<persia> (still 4 May here too)
<dholbach> gotcha
 * dholbach will blog
<persia> Thanks!  We'll be carrying on for the full international day, as I understand the schedule.
<james_w> http://cgit.freedesktop.org/dbus/dbus/tree/dbus/dbus-spawn.c <- is there any way that have_exec_errnum can be false in that file?
<geser> does somebody know when rmadison will list maverick or who to bug about it?
<cjwatson> geser: oh, that would be me, one moment
<cjwatson> geser: done
<geser> thanks
<pitti> cjwatson: and while you are at it, perhaps drop intrepid?
<pitti> cjwatson: (btw, I fixed madison-lite on cocoplum)
<pitti> cjwatson: thanks!
<cjwatson> done
<cjwatson> thanks for doing cocoplum
<pitti> np
<james_w> I think that's why we are seeing dbus "error: failed to launch program: Success" fairly frequently.
<pitti> ooh, seems LP is back
 * pitti uploads gcc-4.5
<pitti> ... and accepts it
* mthaddon changed the topic of #ubuntu-devel to: Ubuntu 10.04 LTS is out! | Archive: toolchain freeze, but uploads work | Development of Ubuntu (not support, not app development) | #ubuntu for support and general discussion for dapper-lucid | #ubuntu-app-devel for application development on Ubuntu | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment | See #ubuntu-bugs for http:/
<ogra> mumble ... so why does fuseiso only support isofs
<persia> "iso" ? :)
<persia> What filesystem do you want?
<ogra> persia, any my kernel supports :)
<persia> Well, there's lots of fuse modules :)
<ogra> persia, fuseiso suppports loop mounting of .img/.iso files but restricts itself to isofs
<ogra> would be nicer to have a plain fuse-loop bit that just uses the available filesystems
<persia> Ought be easy to toss together, really.
<ogra> the only code i found so far uses UML ...
<Riddell> mthaddon: topic fail, cropped at end
* mthaddon changed the topic of #ubuntu-devel to: Ubuntu 10.04 LTS is out! | Archive: toolchain freeze, but uploads work | Development of Ubuntu (not support, not app development) | #ubuntu for support and general discussion for dapper-lucid | #ubuntu-app-devel for application development on Ubuntu | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment | See #ubuntu-bugs for http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Help
<tkamppeter> pitti, hi
<bdrung> is maverick open for uploads or do we have to wait for the toolchain?
<james_w> bdrung: topic?
<soren> mvo: do-release-upgade on Hardy does not offer to upgrade to Lucid unless I pass -d. I'm not sure where to report that?
<bdrung> james_w: what does "toolchain freeze" mean?
<soren> (since I suspect it's not an update-manager problem per se, but rather something that needs changing server-side)
<james_w> bdrung: the archive is frozen while the toolchain is prepared, but any uploads will land in UNAPPROVED
<bdrung> thanks
<mvo> soren: its a known think, either --proposed or -d is needed currently
<mvo> soren: its like this because we have not enabled hardy -> lucid universally yet
<soren> Ah, ok. So it's semi-intentional?
<mvo> soren: yeah, also we need to better communicate this
<ogra> its documented on the help pages
<ogra> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/LucidUpgrades
<pitti> hey tkamppeter
<tkamppeter> pitti, there is still the problem of CUPS not starting on boot for some users.
<tkamppeter> pitti: bug 554172, bug 565197, bug 574109, http://www.cups.org/str.php?L3575
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 554172 in cups "cups not starting at boot" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/554172
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 565197 in cups "lucid: since last update no printer in printer menu. impossible to install printer because menu is greyed" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/565197
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 574109 in cups "cups will not connect to server" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/574109
<pitti> tkamppeter: no idea about that one, I'm afraid; the rc.d symlink seems fine and the init script present
<pitti> smb, apw: FYI, I can't release linux (or anything else) to -updates right now, due to bug 574552
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 574552 in soyuz ""different contents" error when unembargoing security update" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/574552
<apw> pitti, sounds bad ... thanks for the heads up
<pitti> apw: it is :/
<smb> pitti, Doh, ok thanks for giving a heads up
<apw> pitti, the bug doesn't really make it clear its affecting all proposed updates too ... i assume this appeared at lunch today
<pitti> apw: I wrote some comments into it
<pitti> apw: right, new LP rollout
<apw> pitti, oddly that bug was files 20 hours ago, so before the rollout, you being affected being new ... seems the bug just widened its reach
<pitti> apw: I still moved a package to -updates this morning
<apw> yeah so it got a heck of a lot worse
<apw> or its a different bug with the same symptoms i guess
<tkamppeter> anyone around who knows about problems of daemons/services not starting in Lucid and to which package to assign the bug reports?
<patrickd> Can anyone tell me where the lib of libboost fame is actually installed, I've queried the archive with both dpkg -L and apt-filelist but it seems like only the documentation is being installed. Even though I have installed the "dev" version. e.g. apt-get install libboost-dev libboost-python-dev
<patrickd> dpkg -L libboost-dev only shows entries for /usr /usr/share /usr/share/doc/libboost-dev
<geser> patrickd: when you read the package description, you will notice that it's only a meta-package to pull in the default version
<geser> which is currently libboost1.40-dev
<patrickd> geser, but unless I'm missing something in that package also there are only headers and doc's in it to. With no lib to link against or am I missing something?
<kklimonda> patrickd: libboost1.40-dev depends on other dev packages ;)
<geser> patrickd: the libboost-*-dev packages are split for each "sub"-library
<geser> as you mentioned early libboost-python-dev: libboost-python1.40-dev contains the .so symlink (similar for the other libboost-*1.40-dev packages)
<patrickd> ah, okay. I've found the files there in /usr/lib
<patrickd> but I don't understand why when running for example dpkg -L libboost-python-dev it doesn't appear to touch the /usr/lib/ folder
<kklimonda> patrickd: because libboost-python-dev is also a metapackage which depends on the current default boost version
<geser> libboost-python-dev is once again a metapackage to pull in the default libboost version, here libboost-python1.40-dev which contains the symlink
<patrickd> ah, okay. I think I understand what's going on now.
<patrickd> thanks for the explanation folks.
<tkamppeter> Anyone can help me with an Upstart problem? bug 554172, bug 565197, bug 574109 CUPS not starting on boot.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 554172 in cups "cups not starting at boot" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/554172
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 565197 in cups "lucid: since last update no printer in printer menu. impossible to install printer because menu is greyed" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/565197
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 574109 in cups "cups will not connect to server" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/574109
<xaver> hi Keybuk
<tkamppeter> Keybuk, slangasek, hi
<dpm> mvo, when you've got some time, could you have a look at bug 573502? We might have to disable translations if it's not possible to show multibyte chars there
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 573502 in language-pack-zh-hans-base "unreadable characters in recovery mode" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/573502
<mvo> dpm: hmhm, it should be possible, let me try to verify
<dpm> thanks!
<aburch> (win 21
<aburch> Mah.
<pitti> apw, smb: bigjools is our hero, works again and kernel copied to -updates
<StevenK> No, *I'm* the hero, damn it :-P
<pitti> ooh
 * pitti hugs StevenK, thanks!
<pitti> so bigjools was the messenger :)
<StevenK> Effectively :-)
<smb> StevenK, Thanks then
<seb128> StevenK, you are also the one who broke it in the first place right? ;-)
<pitti> StevenK: you really earned your new soyuz badge!
<StevenK> pitti, smb: Sorry for the issue
 * seb128 runs
<ogra> lol
<StevenK> seb128: Yes. And I cry a little more everytime it gets mentioned.
 * seb128 hugs StevenK
<seb128> let's not mention it there ;-)
<apw> StevenK, thanks!
<pitti> cjwatson, sabdfl, kees, mdz, Keybuk: TB meeting reminder in 7 mins
<sabdfl> thanks pitti
<pitti> cjwatson: do you think it's ok for me to accept debhelper and cdbs? (maverick)
<cjwatson> pitti: don't see why not
<pitti> cjwatson: gcc-4.5 seems to build better now, *crossing fingers*
 * abogani waves
<abogani> Are there any chance to change behavior of /etc/init.d/ondemand (into initscripts package) to let users to choose cpufreq governor (for example through a file in /etc/default/) ?
<ogra> abogani, file a whishlist bug (preferably with a patch ) :)
<abogani> ogra: Ok. I'll surely do it. Thanks!
<ogra> abogani, note though that the file should notify about the huge waste of energy and harming the environment etc in case you switch to performance ;)
<mvo> dpm: I can reproduce the problem, it appears that we just have no font for this at the terminal
<zyga> mvo: hi :)
<mvo> hey zyga
<dpm> mvo, ah, thanks for looking into it. Bummer, is there a way to fix this? I.e. installing the necessary fonts?
<dpm> mvo, or can you think of a way we could disable the CJK translations alternatively?
<mvo> dpm: I don't know, I don't know much about the fonts situation on the console, i.e. if there is a good font with full CJK coverage, ev or cjwatson know for sure, or the CJK users.
<cjwatson> I know nothing
<JFo> that isn't what I heard about you cjwatson ;-0
<cjwatson> ok, nothing about this
<JFo> heh
 * dpm pheews
<JFo> dpm, :)
<dpm> let's try ArneGoetje or ev, then. Arne, Evan, it's about bug 573502, do you know about the font situation in the console, and if so, do you think you could comment on the bug?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 573502 in language-pack-zh-hans-base "unreadable characters in recovery mode" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/573502
<cjwatson> oh, wait, recovery mode.  I thought you meant gnome-terminal or something
<cjwatson> dpm: the Linux console can't render CJK
<cjwatson> it's not a matter of fonts - it doesn't have the rendering technology
<cjwatson> likewise Indic languages
<cjwatson> I'm not sure about RTL
<mvo> jibel: hello, thanks for the fixes for #566779 and #568925, I prepare a SRU for those now (and the gmarkup one too)
<dpm> thanks cjwatson. Bummer, we'll have to somehow disable whatever translated text it cannot render, or disable translations altogether
<cjwatson> people who need CJK text on consoles use things like jfbterm
<mvo> hey glatzor
<mvo> dpm: can we somehow select in rosetta that this package can not be translated into certain languages?
<cjwatson> which wouldn't be impossible, we have a framebuffer there already in most situations now, it's just fairly cumbersome
<jdstrand> pitti: hi! can I have you opinion on http://people.canonical.com/~jamie/ff36-apparmor.diff.txt? background: there is a pending firefox update and there are these 4 bug fixes to the apparmor profile. the aa profile is disabled by default and no chance of regression (plus, me and several other people use the profile with these commits)
<jdstrand> pitti: the question is whether to SRU these separately, with all the associated archive churn, or push them with the pending security update
<jdstrand> pitti: I wouldn't normally ask, but in the case of firefox, upstream adds features and bug fixes beyond security fixes, so these low regression potential items seemed kinda gray...
<dpm> mvo, no, unfortunately it's not possible to selectively allow translatable languages in rosetta. They should either revert the translations and leave them untranslated, or we blacklist the affected languages in the package, if that is possible. I think that might be the best thing to do in the short term.
<mvo> dpm: blacklistting is possible, I just need to add code for this
<glatzor> heyas mvo!
<dpm> mvo, do you think you could do that if we provide you a list of affected locales in the bug report?
<mvo> dpm: yes
<cjwatson> pitti: perl uploaded - should I just accept it directly?
<pitti> cjwatson: hm, should we wait for gcc, to get perl built with it?
<cjwatson> ok by me
<pitti> cjwatson: hm, thinking about it, that would also need a gcc-defaults upload, wouldn't it?
<cjwatson> I guess
<cr3> how come building a package in PPA for maverick works for architecture any but not all?
<cjwatson> cr3: PPAs haven't been enabled yet for maverick, so I guess you got lucky
<cjwatson> or at least they aren't supposed to have been
<thedoor> hi all :)
<thedoor> can i ask some newbie questions here?
<jibel> mvo, hey, no problem.
<jibel> mvo, btw what do you think is the right fix for bug 545336 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 545336 in synaptic "apt fails if size of translated RFC822 message is much larger than the size of the original message." [Medium,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/545336
<jibel> mvo, it only affects spanish users because texlive-latex-extra translation is muuuch too large.
<dmart> kees: hi, do you have a moment to discuss your comments on https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-arm/+spec/arm-m-missing-security-features ?
<kees> dmart: hi! sure.
<dmart> kees: What did you mean by "nothing should be prelinking. everything is correctly already PIC"?
<kees> dmart: I'm a bit new to ARM things, but as I understand it, nothing should be prelinking.
<kees> dmart: it serves no purpose that I'm aware of.
<dmart> My understanding of the potential benefits of prelinking are that you may reduce a lot of dnyamic linker thrashing during app startup, but I don't know if this has been extensively investigated
<kees> dmart: it used to be an issue for symbol resolution, but the hash tables from a few years ago made it irrelevant
<kees> dmart: yeah, that's a total non-issue now.
<dmart> So prelinking is a possible optimisation, not a legacy compatibility thing
<kees> dmart: the GNUHASH extension makes symbol look-up insanely fast.
<dmart> I think doko integrated that for ARM now
<kees> I view it as legacy, as the hash serves the purpose in the general case now.
<kees> readelf -e /bin/true | grep gnu.hash
<kees> ^^ that should answer it
<kees> (oh right, I have armel simulator...)
<dmart> I'd need to check with doko; I think at one point gnu.hash was present but not used for ARM (or maybe the other way around)
<kees> so, yes.  armel has the gnu.bash stuff
<dmart> ok
<dmart> prelinking is still potentially interesting because we may suffer a lot of TLB misses and cache line fills during app startup at symbols get resolved.
<kees> regardless, ASLR is missing, even if legacy apps want to prelink.  prelinking makes ASLR useless, but just for the app doing the prelink.
<dmart> Sure
<kees> dmart: that might be true, but I think (hope) it's an uncommon need.
<kees> (doing prelink)
<dmart> dunno really, currently the preformance implications are not well understood.  I don't think it's been investigated much yet, but I've heard it mentioned.
<dmart> I've found no obvious reason why ASLR shouldn't be possible on ARM generally
<dmart> maybe just noone did it yet.
<dmart> kees: Next point: the vdso
<dmart> Currently, on ARM we enter the kernel via SVC (aka SWI) - which is more analogous to INT and SYSENTER/SYSEXIT
<dmart> s/and/than/
<dmart> There is no need for a "well-known return address" to get back into userspace
<kees> dmart: right, yes, ASLR> totally possible, just no one has done it.
<kees> dmart: ah, okay.  I know that x86 starting doing sysenter because int80 was so expesnive.
<kees> er, expensive.
<kees> dmart: if that's not the case for ARM, then I don't really care.
<kees> dmart: but I have to wonder why ARM has a vdso then...
<kees> 7fff192e1000-7fff192e2000 r-xp 00000000 00:00 0                          [vdso]
<kees> seems like if it has a vdso, it should be ASLRs
 * psusi decides to inject some luls for everyone's amusement: "Who is General failure, and why is he trying to read my C: drive?"
<kees> psusi: hehe
<dmart> If this is ARM, why do the addresses have 48 bits? ;)
<dmart> I don't see this with cat /proc/$$/maps or ldd /bin/bash (for example)
<kees> dmart: oh, perhaps the qemu environment is crazy
<kees> dmart: I don't have a "real" ARM system.  :P
<dmart> Maybe you are getting the host's info somehow
<kees> I must be
 * kees boots an ARM VM instead of chroot thingy
<dmart> OK, well I'll tweak the blueprint whiteboard a bit based on this chat
<kees> dmart: hah.  well that makes things easier.  ;)
<kees> dmart: yeah, please drop the vdso thing.  :)
<kees> dmart: do you know why ARM loads ELF so low in memory?  was there a time when it didn't have sane virtual memory?
<dmart> vdso might be relevant later, but probably not for now.  The nearest equivalent thing is the vectors page, but it's not straightforward to move that.
<dmart> Do you know why x86 loads ELF so _high_ in memory ;)  I've always wondered about this
<kees> heh, I don't.  :)
<dmart> Anyway, I don't really know why the difference exists.  I think there's just no reason not to... there's nothing else down there that we're trying to avoid
<kees> yeah, with the mmap_min_addr stuff, it's one of the deltas between x86 and ARM.
<dmart> There's also the issue of where the linker traditionally puts .text: for ARM it's just at the bottom of VM, leaving space for some NULL pages
<kees> right, that's what I mean.  x86 linker goes to 0x0804000, ARM linker goes to 0x00008000
<dmart> On x86, it's 0x8048000, but I have no idea what the 128MB gap is for.  libc seems to appear down there sometimes
<kees> anything you're seeing below that is due to x86-32 nx-emulation patch crack.
<dmart> ugh
<dmart> ;)
<dmart> Fortunately XN should work natively on ARMv7
<kees> but yeah, dunno about the 0x08040000 bump.  anyway, was just curious, since it'd be nice to have the memory layouts be similar.  :)
<dmart> I don't have an answer on that one.  I wondered whether the kernel used to live down there on very old kernels or something... but really I have no idea.
<dmart> Anyways, I'll tweak the blueprint again tomorrow.  Most of it seems totally doable, though I haven't dug too deep
<kees> dmart: cool.
<dmart> thanks
<kees> dmart: thanks!
 * cjwatson wonders if this is a viable idea for making merge-o-matic lots faster
<imbrandon> ?
<maxb> By what logic is ureadahead a mandatory dependency of ubuntu-minimal? This seems... wrong
<psusi> it does seem like it should go under the desktop metapackage rather than minimal...
<psusi> also seems like the priority should not be required
<ccheney> any gstreamer gurus that happen to have time to look at a bug for me? :)
<notlistening> Okay I turn my printer on it pops as the make and model in the printing dialouge, what mechanism is use to get that information is it HAL?
<ccheney> nm seb128 responded that my issue is upstream
<notlistening> and how can i access that information?
<psusi> HAL has been removed
<lifeless> james_w: around ?
<psusi> jdong, pushed my updated e2defrag to lp:e2defrag if you want to check it out
<jdong> psusi: cool, I'll try to make time to try that
<psusi> jdong, how's your little graph maker doing?
<psusi> I'd like to check that out to visualize before and after
#ubuntu-devel 2010-05-05
<anon^_^> Is someone from the Ubuntu Development Team available that can triage a bug?
<anon^_^> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gparted/+bug/574106
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 574106 in gparted "Request backport of gparted 0.5.2-9 (Important UPDATE - LVM fix)" [Undecided,New]
<psusi> lvm fix?  gparted does not support lvm
<anon^_^> There's a regression in gparted, if there's an active LVM on a device, you can't edit or delete any partitions on that device
<anon^_^> There was a new release on May 3, 2010 to fix this
<psusi> have you tested this?  we should not be affected by this since we don't care WHAT is using the other partitions... there was a regression in libparted that prevented manipulating other partitions on a disk with one in use, but that was fixed
<psusi> yea... looks like their bug report cites the two relevant patches to libparted I wrote... we're ahead of gparted ;)
<anon^_^> I installed gparted from ubuntu lucid repos, I am unable to edit a boot partition that is not part of the lvm
<psusi> can you be more specific?
<anon^_^> i'm not sure how, I right lick on the boot partition and I'm unable to resize
<psusi> do you get an error?
<psusi> what version of libparted0 do you have installed?
<anon^_^> the option resize/move is greyed out
<anon^_^> 2.2-5ubuntu5
<psusi> hrm... works for me...
<psusi> are you sure the partition you are trying to resize is not in use?
<james_w> lifeless: hi, around for a few minutes
<lifeless>  
<lifeless> james_w: hi
<lifeless> james_w: what would you say is the most useful thing to do next in the bzr/distro workflow space
<lifeless> not a promise to do :- want your thoughts as input to deciding :)
<james_w> hmm
<james_w> perhaps a bit late for strategic thinking :-)
<lifeless> tactical will do :)
<lifeless> I've suggested to spiv he might like to do a loom converter for bzr-builddeb imported branches
<james_w> yeah, looms would be pretty high
<lifeless> as something useful, and giving him more exposure to the content that the distro is working with
<james_w> merging unrelated branches would be highest on my list right now I think
<lifeless> do you mean file id related stuff?
<james_w> or rather, getting upstreams mergeable to distro branches, at least as one-offs
<lifeless> actually, what do you mean :P
<james_w> so something in that area, either requiring a rewrite of the distro branch, or more smarts in bzr to make that unnecessary
<lifeless> ok
<lifeless> so the use case is
<lifeless> 'I have a bzr-builddeb import-dsc branch, or similar. I now have an upstream branch. Help.'
<james_w> yes
<james_w> and right now I'm just interested in answering that specific question, rather than "we have 10000 import-dsc branches, and 2000 upstream branches. Help!!!"
<lifeless> sure
<lifeless> I think its a rewrite case
<lifeless> 'path tokens', as I called them, will carry baggage around for some time
<james_w> partly because it's would be a precursor, but also to stop punishing the projects who use bzr upstream and in the distro
<lifeless> james_w: they can just drop the distro history, though its not a brilliant answer
<james_w> right
<james_w> so it's just something along the lines of putting some of the code in bzr-rewrite together with some heuristics and producing a command that can be run of a bunch of branches.
<james_w> yeah, a non-rewrite solution could be to merge -r 0..-1 the upstream branch next time a merge-upstream is done, and take all the file-ids from the upstream branch
<james_w> so you get a discontinuity, but that becomes less important over time
<lifeless> how does this sound
<lifeless> as a 'break the dam' approach
<lifeless> we write a little script
<lifeless> that checks for changes to stuff outside debian/
<lifeless> stashes that somewhere; does a join of the branches, grabs the upstream content and restores that diff
<lifeless> and does this all as one commit
<lifeless> no conflicts
<james_w> sounds reasonable, but I'm not sure how much more work the rewrite case would be
<lifeless> Much more, I think.
<lifeless> bzr-rewrite is awkward to work with.
<lifeless> I don't want to get into making that awesome *and then* get folk the ability to connect branches
<lifeless> I'd rather get the ability to connect these branches, *and then* make it better.
<lifeless> the specifically harder thing about rewrite is we don't know where to do repeated merges
<lifeless> and in general the content won't match for autoconf output etc, repeatedly throughout time
<lifeless> james_w: while you're here. I'd like to stop the builddeb importer stripping .bzrignore
<lifeless> james_w: I filed a bug, but I don't think you've given your opinion on that
<james_w> I thought it had been done, but I might be misremembering
<james_w> it's a trivial patch
<lifeless> yes, but are you happy with it  being done :)
<james_w> dunnio
<james_w> you can force me to think about it :-)
 * lifeless forces
<lifeless> james_w: why the change to say 'bzr merge . -r tag:upstream-1.2.3' in your merge of my patch ?
<james_w> in my experience it causes trouble, and I can't think of any good reasons to do it
<james_w> explicit is better than implicit
<james_w> I did the .bzrignore stripping because I was stripping .bzr, and so just went all out. I since scaled back to only stripping some bzr related stuff, and I think we can leave it with just stripping .bzr, even with the known problems with doing that
<lifeless> what are the problems?
<lifeless> I mean, I can describe the problems the stripping gives me concisely: it breaks merging from upstream
<temugen> psusi: bzr branch of the grapher: http://bradmisik.com/trunk/fragraph
<james_w> lifeless: yeah, I meant the problems with stripping .bzr, we can't import .bzr, but if we strip it then there are other issues
<james_w> such as not being able to recreate the source package that we imported properly
<lifeless> james_w: we could import .bzr, but it would be mind bending :)
<james_w> well, you can't import .bzr right now
<psusi> temugen, thanks... checking it out now
<james_w> try telling TreeTransform to create a .bzr/branch-format some time, it's quite spectacular
<lifeless> james_w: I'll describe how you can over a beer. Needs a custom format object.
<lifeless> and possibly some monkey aptches
<james_w> right, that's what I mean by "right now2
<lifeless> anyhow, distractions aside
<james_w> if there's nothing else then I'll be heading to bed
<lifeless> .bzrignore should be ok ?
<james_w> yep
<lifeless> I'll push a patch for it.
<lifeless> gnight.
<james_w> thanks
<james_w> night
<persia> Just a reminder, it's Patch Day. Anyone with some time to review patches and help get them in the right places is encouraged to stop by #ubuntu-reviews and help out.
<JontheEchidna> pitti: btw, as a note kde4.mk has been dropped from cdbs in Ubuntu, and can be dropped from the merge differences list for all future merges
<df00z1> Hmm.  If I submit a deb for review to include in universe...if I have to do export DISTDIR=$(CURDIR)/debian/iscsitarget;$(MAKE) install in debian/rules under install: , would that have any effect on it being accepted?  Everything else "just works"
<df00z1> I just dont want to go through the effort of filling in all the copyright info and making sure everything looks clean and then be denied cuz of that
<df00z1> I dont see anything in the guides that say you CANT do it
<df00z1> I wrote the devels of iscsitarget, they wont be changing it
<df00z1> their makefile doesnt support DESTDIR, only DISTDIR
<ScottK> df00z1: #ubuntu-motu is a better channel for that question.
<df00z1> Ok I'll check them out, thanks
<persia> I'd probably define that further up in debian/rules rather than as an environment variable when calling Make, but there's no reason you can't do that.  Packaging exists to work around variances in upstream build procedures.
<ScottK> jdong: Any chance you can look at the pending clamav SRU and give it SRU team blessing?
<jdong> ScottK: sure, bug #?
<psusi> well that's interesting.... while defragging I noticed a bug in resize2fs... it doesn't respect flex_bg... all of the block groups I added last week when I extended the volume are laid out in their non flex_bg positions
<ScottK> jdong: Bug #574906 and Bug #571543
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 574906 in clamav "Clamav 0.96.0 clamd fails to start on powerpc" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/574906
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 571543 in clamav "Milter and Freshclam configurations buggy in Lucid" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/571543
<jdong> ScottK: ACKed
<ScottK> jdong: Thanks.
 * ScottK switches hats.
<jdong> ScottK: just a FYI, it's the last two weeks of class here (last week before things are due), so life is really hellish for me here. If there's outstanding SRU tasks, feel free to ping me in here and I'll look. but I'm probably not gonna read my bugmail for now
<ScottK> jdong: Will do.  Thanks again.
<ScottK> jdong: You might want to look at http://launchpadlibrarian.net/47809319/xubuntu-default-settings_10.04.8_source.changes
<jdong> ScottK: thanks
<jdong> ScottK: looks like Martin ACKed it already
<ScottK> OK.  I'll process it then.
<ScottK> Done.
<txwikinger> Does KDE get windicators too?
<ScottK> txwikinger: You tell me: http://blog.martin-graesslin.com/blog/2010/05/why-you-should-not-use-client-side-window-decorations/
<RAOF> There doesn't seem to be anything stoping KDE from getting windicators; it sounds like it'll be a similar sort of interface to the app-indicators.
<ScottK> RAOF: I thought client side decoration was required?
<RAOF> ScottK: I don't have any deep insight into the implementation or even how much implementation there *is*.  There doesn't seem to be any particular reason that it couldn't be implemented in a way that kwin could do the actual indicators.
<RAOF> If KDE didn't want to do client-side-decoration.
<persia> It would be.  Naking it work sanely would require an extension to the WM interface, which isn't what was described.
<ScottK> That's kind of what I'd have thought, but it'd be very different than what has been proposed.
<txwikinger> why can't the decorator accept plugins?
<persia> txwikinger: It could, but nobody ever defined that an an extension of the WM interface, to my knowledge.
<txwikinger> well.. I see no obstacle to start with it
<persia> So, unless it's CSD, that would require changing all the window managers, or requiring application implementaitons to have a fallback.  If the target is a few specific applications, it's much easier to implement with CSD.
<txwikinger> Well. you only need a fallback if it is additional functionality
<persia> There's no obstacle: mostly needs thinking about *how* to pass *what* to enable that sort of thing in a generic fashion.
<txwikinger> if it is just a convenience thing the fallback could be like it is now
<RAOF> persia: I was under the impression it'd be pretty much like the dbusmenu work that already drives appindicators
<txwikinger> well. I would think all of the window managers in question are composite managers
<persia> I mayhave read the blog post wrong, but I had the impression it would be a replacement for the status bar.
<lifeless> you're both right
<lifeless> raof is talking implementation
<persia> RAOF: Yes, but there's nothing in the WM spec to receive that yet :)
<lifeless> persia is talking user experience, AFAICT
<lifeless> persia: it wouldn't be WM per se - it would be client side
<persia> user experience and spec compliance, but yeah.
<txwikinger> composite means the decorator would just assign the space and the windicator would plug itself in there
<persia> lifeless: Only if it's CSD.
<lifeless> right, AIUI that was prereq
<persia> It's not.
<RAOF> I don't see why it would be predicated on CSD.  KWin would just need to grow an appropriate dbus interface.
<persia> There's no reason the WM spec can't get extended to support that sort of functionality.  it's just a heap more work to do it that way.
<txwikinger> what is CSD?
<persia> RAOF: You're thinking about specifics.  We have > 10 WMs in Ubuntu.
<RAOF> And users of crazy window decorators get to see the magical fallback paths :)
<persia> txwikinger: Client Side Decorations.
<RAOF> persia: And I think we should *care* about 3 WMs, give or take.
<RAOF> At least as far as this work goes.
<txwikinger> 4
<RAOF> There will always be crazy WMs that do funky things; we'll need fallbacks regardless.
<persia> RAOF: I'd say 4, but yeah, if done as a WM extension in kwin/metacity/openbox/(whatever the GTK compositing one is) it ought be sufficient.
<persia> txwikinger: Does your 4 match my 4?
<RAOF> CSD windows could get it for free, which makes it easier.
<persia> Right, which is why it's overwhelmingly likely that a CSD implementation will be sought.
<txwikinger> persia.. I think so.. I thought KDE/Gnome/Xfce and L...
 * txwikinger still likes a plugin solution
<RAOF> But that CSD implementation shouldn't prejudice the ability of other decorators implementing it.
<persia> txwikinger: Then the same.  KDE is kwin, GNOME is compiz, Xfce is metacity, and LXDE is openbox.
<txwikinger> well. kde can run compiz too isn't it
<ScottK> RAOF: It's pretty clear that CSD means KDE won't support it.
<ScottK> txwikinger: It can, but it's not supported by Kubuntu or upstream.
<txwikinger> what is the WM for Kubuntu with compiz enabled?
<RAOF> ScottK: I don't understand; it wouldn't require CSD, but GTK apps would get it for free with CSD.  And if Qt implemented CSD, then Qt apps could get it for free, too.
<ScottK> There's no work planned for a non-CSD implementation.
<ScottK> (at least as far as I've seen)
<persia> txwikinger: I believe the lack of a good answer to that question is *why* it's not a supported configuration :)
<ScottK> persia: Why would it be?
<txwikinger> well. whatever the desktop effects are
<ScottK> txwikinger: In KDE, that's kwin.
<txwikinger> ScottK: was that always kwin?
<RAOF> That would require KWin patches; it's quite possible that the initial implementation wound be only done for GTK+CSD, because that has the highest reward.
<ScottK> txwikinger: For KDE4, yes.
<RAOF> The WM for Kubuntu with compiz enabled is compiz.  That's easy :)
 * txwikinger must have remebered KDE3 then
<ScottK> RAOF: No.  It's worse than that.  At least one senior kwin dev has essentially said CSD over my dead body, so I don't think it's ever likely to be in KDE.
<ScottK> So even if patches were done for kwin, they'd have no place to land.
<RAOF> ScottK: But the patches wouldn't be for CSD in KWin, they'd be for kwin to provide the appropriate interfaces (dbus or otherwise)
<txwikinger> why do people always say something like that?
<RAOF> KWin would still be drawing the decorations, but it'd be additionally drawing a bunch of indicators.
<ScottK> txwikinger: Did you read the blog post.
<RAOF> In that decoration.
<txwikinger> ScottK: yes
<ScottK> RAOF: So then what happens when you run a KDE app in a Gnome session or the reverse?
<persia> RAOF: You really want to extend the WM interface to allow that, rather than just implement some random D-Bus interface.  If it's not in XDG, folks are likely to drag their feet for all sorts of reasons.
<RAOF> Well, a CSD GNOME app in a KDE session will have gnome-themed titlebars, since it won't be decorated by KWin.  This means it'll get the GTK indicator stuff.
<persia> No, because KWin will override the decorations, based on the blog post.
<ScottK> Yep
<RAOF> Because KWin doesn't respect the âdon't decorate meâ hint?
<RAOF> That seems rather unfriendly.
<ScottK> It seems to some how since my chromium windows don't look like kwin.
<RAOF> Right.  The CSD GTK apps *should* behave exactly like that.
<RAOF> I understand that KWin wants to have the ability for the user to force decorations on, but not respecting the undecorated hint entirely would break chromium and other things like it.
<ScottK> Which does mean they won't fit in at all with the desktop environment.
<ScottK> GTK apps in Kubuntu look reasonably native currently.
<persia> RAOF: I think it currently respects the hint, but that upstream is unhappy about that.
 * txwikinger does not understand the either/or
<RAOF> Making them remain reasonably native would be a matter of appropriate engine coding.
<txwikinger> why can't the windicators just be plugins that still allow Kwin to do what it does today
<RAOF> txwikinger: Plugins to what?
<persia> txwikinger: They could.  It's just lots more work that way.
<txwikinger> maybe I don't understand WMs good enough
<RAOF> txwikinger: The advantage of doing it in GTK with CSD is that you only need to implement it once in GTK and it works with all moderately sane WMs automatically.
<txwikinger> but I would think in the sense of plasmoids
<persia> txwikinger: The main thing to consider is that there exists a current definition of the WM interface, implemented by N WMs (of which we care about 4).  If that is to be extended, it needs to be extended in *all* of them.
<persia> and it needs to be extended in a way that is acceptable to the WM development community generally.
<ScottK> Or at least have agreement on how to implement it even if the implementations appear somewhat asynchronously.
<persia> Using CSD sidesteps the entire conversation, and the cost of inconsistent interface.
<txwikinger> persia: I think that extension would be reasonable
<persia> txwikinger: I agree, but it needs doing, and it's a bundle of work.
<ScottK> Which no one appears to be proposing be done.
<ScottK> (at least not in the community of candidates to do the work)
<persia> I'm not sure it's fair to say that yet: let's wait until post-UDS when we've all had a chance to argue about it in detail.
<ScottK> Is there anyone coming to have this discussion and not just the how we're going to do CSD one?
<ScottK> I doubt this is on the agenda.
<persia> Ah, good point.  There may be insufficient representation from the WM development community to have the discussion.
<ScottK> I've seen the list if KDEish people coming.  No kwin developers on the list.
<persia> I don't remember metacity folks ever being present, nor openbox.  I've seen compiz folks regularly, but that's only one of the 4 that we care about (nevermind all the others)
<ScottK> OTOH, last cycle we didn't have any upstream plasma developers there and Ayatana worked out the dbusmenu concept with them and we had a session with them remote and Kubuntu/Ayatana people local.
<persia> So really it's just a matter of coordination with the appropriate folks.  Could be possible to arrange.
 * psusi beats resize2fs for not respecting flex_bg when extending a volume
<persia> lifeless: Dunno if you7re still interested, but http://blino.org/blog/mandriva/poulsbo-xserver1.7.html caught my eye.
<RAOF> lifeless: You're another unfortunate with a gma500 system?
<persia> RAOF: You have one?
<RAOF> persia: No, but there are some in #ubuntu-x and Sarvatt's working on it.
<lifeless> RAOF: lynnes eeepc is
 * persia sends blessings Sarvatt's way
<lifeless> RAOF: thats why I updated the kernel modules for the IEGD 10.3.1 release or whatever; before finding that the X driver is a different API to lucid and X refuses to use it
<lifeless> s/API/ABI/
<RAOF> lifeless: Well, last I saw there was mutterings and cursings and I think X might have been coming up with acceleration.
<psusi> pitti, the broken real time clock fsck issues... could they not be fixed by setting the clock to the fs creation time when mounting the root fs?  that way the current time is never < fs creation time?
<lifeless> RAOF: cool; xorg-edgers ? :)
<RAOF> lifeless: A different PPA, I think.  Let me browse the logsâ¦
<lifeless> RAOF: don't bother
<lifeless> I can't fiddle for 2 weeks anyway
<persia> psusi: So, what happens when your filesystem creation time is corrupt?  We've a hack in some places that sets it to last mount action time (mount/unmount), but that's not really safe.
<RAOF> lifeless: Too late: https://edge.launchpad.net/~sarvatt/+archive/psb/+packages
<RAOF> :)
<psusi> persia, none of it is safe, it's a question of the lesser of evils ;)
<StevenK> Not those 3 letters!
<StevenK> Nooooooooooooooooo
<psusi> but if you KNOW your real time clock is not functioning, setting the current time to the fs creation time is better than the epoc
<lifeless> StevenK: p
<lifeless> StevenK: s
<lifeless> StevenK: b
<StevenK> Lalalalalala, I can't hear you
<lifeless> StevenK: don't worry, in 5 days you will
<StevenK> lifeless: I no longer have to care
<lifeless> StevenK: I know. But you'll still hear ;)
<persia> psusi: Right before lucid release, ogra committed some patch by dmart that did just that, but unfortunately I forget the bug number.  My understanding is that the issue has been communicated to filesystem devs upsteam, and should be fixed in a future upstream release (in that there will be a safe way to deal with nonfunctional RTC/missing RTC)
<persia> RAOF: So, bug #497149 is in the patch review queue (it's Patch Day! everyone should review patches in #ubuntu-reviews) for nouveau-kernel-source : do you need someone to go through a review process for that, or is it something you can just do relatively quickly?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 497149 in nvidia-graphics-drivers-96 "Packages using DKMS should make use of /usr/lib/dkms/common.postinst" [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/497149
<Sarvatt> RAOF: there's another group of people working on it that actually have the machines and care so I disabled that PPA and will just help them out :)
 * Sarvatt can't believe he's actually trying to find a psb machine to buy..
<persia> Sarvatt: Might you come to UDS?  I've one that just gathers dust.
<persia> (it's actually a "cell phone", but it's larger than one of my "laptop"s, so I never use it)
<Sarvatt> yep I'll be there, that would help a lot if I could mess with it there since I keep needing info I can only get from a running machine
<persia> Sure.  I'll bring it along.
<persia> Might still have a not-quite-jaunty on it, with arbitrary hacks, but presumably it could be upgraded, etc.
<persia> ogra: Do you want to do anything with https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xf86-input-evtouch/+bug/317094 ?  It's aging, but has a bundle of stuff there.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 317094 in xf86-input-evtouch "meta bug to collect lshal touchscreen info" [Undecided,Incomplete]
<persia> ogra: More specifically, do *you* want to do something, or should all the patches be pushed upstream somehow?
<ajmitch> though the bug doesn't have actual patches, but just dumps from a tool
<persia> Ah, right.  I guess it needs someone to dig thorugh the dumps, and generate a patch.
<persia> Sorry for the noise.
<Sarvatt> the lovely part is that there's a psb replacement destined to end up in netbooks here soon that also uses powervr and is incompatible with all of the current psb stuff
<RAOF> Sarvatt: Really? :(.  I got the impression that psb was almost universally disliked, even within Intel.
<Sarvatt> yeah moorestown, there's a ton of support patches for it in meego
<persia> I think the idea of using embedded graphics cores is not universally disliked.
<lifeless> I love embedded graphics cores... that are open
<persia> Which ones are those again?
<RAOF> persia: The arrandale(?) cores in the i{3,5,7}, I think.
 * persia gets confused by ark: arrandale seems ot be a product cycle name, and the details of the GPU aren't obvious.  I hope this to be true.
<lifeless> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Core_i7 gives some hint
<persia> anandtech even had a feature article.  It just didn't list which was the old IP (or else I'm missing the hints).
<persia> Anyway, I don't want to care enough about it :)  I'll just hope they have open specifications.
<pitti> Good morning
<pitti> JontheEchidna: ah, that was actually just a copy&paste error from the changelog; it's not actually installed any more; thanks!
<pitti> zul: can you please reupload landscape-client with the correct -v option to show both changelogs, or merge the changelogs?
<zyga> morning
<dholbach> good morning
<mvo> hey zyga
<mvo> hey seb128, dholbach
<zyga> mvo: hello, how are you :-)
<seb128> hey mvo
<mvo> zyga: good, thanks, how are you?
<zyga> mvo: fine, I'm trying to find the right google domain for my project, so many of them around ;-)
<dholbach> hey mvo, salut seb128
<seb128> hey dholbach
<dholbach> comment Ã§a va?
<seb128> dholbach, un peu fatiguÃ© mais sinon bien, et toi ?
<dholbach> seb128: un peu fatiguÃ© aussi
<pitti> hallo dholbach!
<dholbach> seb128: doko va arriver ici dans quelque minutes, son internet est encore "cassÃ©" :)
<seb128> dholbach, c'est un prÃ©texte pour pas travailler !
<dholbach> "ah ah" :)
<dholbach> becaucoup de travaille ici, pas travailler n'est pas une option :)
<seb128> dholbach, ;-)
<hyperair> hmm test building wine in sbuild with ccache seems to lead to nothing but ccache missees
<hyperair> what gives?
<zyga> hyperair: maybe it inserts build date/time into all objects?
<hyperair> zyga: ah yes that might be the cause
<zyga> hyperair: or it gets around to avoid ccache in some magic way
<zyga> hyperair: but it would be queer to put timestamp into _all_ objects
<hyperair> no wait, ccache is defunct
<hyperair> zyga: ccache is defunct, that's definite.
<RAOF> sbuild will be building in a clean chroot, right?  That's unlikely to pick up your ccache cache :)
<zyga> hyperair: how so? I've used it with great success in the past
<hyperair> zyga: same here.
<hyperair> RAOF: sbuild bind-mounts my home
<zyga> RAOF: oh, good point
<hyperair> RAOF: and builds under my UID
<hyperair> watch ccache -s shows the misses going up
<hyperair> zyga: i just tried with a helloworld.cc test
<zyga> hyperair: did you try checking that hello-world.c is cached correctly/
<zyga> :D
<hyperair> zyga: heh?
<hyperair> lemme just run a ccache cleanup
<zyga> hyperair: one more possibility is to check the ccache log
<zyga> hyperair: I know that ccache just bails out if it sees some option it does not understand
<hyperair> zyga: eh interesting. i never knew it had a log
<zyga> hyperair: you have to set some environment options to enable logging
<zyga> hyperair: check the man page
<hyperair> oh bah
<hyperair> i didn't have those set.
<zyga> hyperair: try with hello-world to see what kind of data is being logged, then check if that same behaviour occurs when you build wine
<JasonWoof> Hi, I maintain a game, which I'd like to get into Ubuntu. It's been packaged for debian, and is included in debian unstable (sid).
<JasonWoof> what's the next step? do I need to get it to debian testing? or can it go straight from debian unstable to ubuntu?
<JasonWoof> game site: http://jasonwoof.org/vor   debian package page: http://packages.debian.org/unstable/games/vor
<hyperair> zyga: aha, it doesn't seem to like the case when i just compile directly without -c
<zyga> hyperair: hmm, without -c you just link, right?
<StevenK> JasonWoof: It will get sync'd directly into maverick when it opsn
<StevenK> *opens
<JasonWoof> iirc -c makes it not link just yet
<zyga> hyperair: that would account for a small fraction of the overall build process
<zyga> hyperair: like, most of wine gets built with -c, hopefully ;-)
<JasonWoof> StevenK: sweet!
<hyperair> zyga: lemme try that LOGFILE env trick
<joaopinto> good morning
<hyperair> zyga: i get a whole bunch of "Places ___________.o into cache"
<hyperair> zyga: maybe it really is getting a whole bunch of different hashes each time.
<zyga> hyperair: good, then it's working
<zyga> hyperair: can you stop the build after first couple of objecrts
<zyga> hyperair: examine them (check that your cache is really in your $HOME)
<zyga> hyperair: and try to build again
<zyga> hyperair: you can also ask ccache to do double hoop build
<zyga> hyperair: first it will pre-process
<zyga> hyperair: and the cache will be based on the pre-processed text, not the source text AFAIR
<zyga> hyperair: hmm, sorry I take that back
<zyga> hyperair: I was thinking about CCACHE_UNIFY
<hyperair> CCACHE_UNIFY sounds like it'll be nasty
<zyga> hyperair: it's designed to assist in edits that don't alter the actual code
<zyga> hyperair: you don't need it unless you hack on wine today
<hyperair> zyga: i know, i'm just rebuilding the same .dsc over and over.
<hyperair> zyga: on another build (codelite) argument -MM is unsupported
<zyga> hyperair: huh? what is codelite?
<zyga> -MM generates build deps
<zyga> you should  not need that for a package build
<hyperair> zyga: another package
<hyperair> zyga: for some reason, everything's getting a -MM flag
<hyperair> weird
<hyperair> well codelite is known for its weird build system
<zyga> no it's normal
<zyga> actually it's cheap and good to do so
<hyperair> O_o
<zyga> you get deps _AND_ the .o file at once
<hyperair> why so?
<hyperair> ah
<hyperair> but surely you need the deps *first*
<zyga> hyperair: perhaps you can patch the build system to support no-deps option, if it's make you can do that rather easily with injecting one CFLAGS:=$(filter-out -MM,$(CFLAGS)) line in a good spot
<zyga> hyperair: no
<zyga> hyperair: you only need the deps when you edit and build the code
<zyga> hyperair: deps get you .h deps
<hyperair> zyga: it depends on whether the -MM is part of CFLAGS.
<hyperair> zyga: CFLAGS is usually only the user-customized flags
<zyga> hyperair: internally you have to provide -MM as some kind of flag, I guess they are using CFLAGS to do that
<hyperair> zyga: no, it's bad practice to provide important flags in CFLAGS, because they can end up getting overridden.
<hyperair> zyga: one make CFLAGS="blah" will void every CFLAGS assignment
<zyga> hyperair: not really
<hyperair> why not?
<zyga> hyperair: you can control that from within make, usually you just CFLAGS+= stuff
<hyperair> zyga: no, you can't.
<zyga> hyperair: and in the extreme case you can also override the environment value
<hyperair> zyga: += and exports don't work once overridden by the user.
<hyperair> if you've been doing that, then it's time to change =p
<hyperair> it's the reason automake uses its own ${SOMETHING_CFLAGS} arguments
<zyga> there is the override directive
<zyga> well in any way, there has to be a place where -MM gets used/added/whatever
<hyperair> of course
<zyga> (automake is really ugly inside, I will not argue about which part is nice or correct)
<hyperair> lol
<hyperair> automake is nice to use
<hyperair> it's just that patching up errors isn't easy.
<hyperair> touching the Makefile.in can try your sanity
<hyperair> zyga: oh hey ccache works for codelite.
<zyga> there is this project I like, I cannot remember the name, they are doing automake sans the ugly generated crap
<zyga> oh :-)
<zyga> even with -MM?
<hyperair> zyga: you mean autoconf?
<zyga> hyperair: actually, no - automake
<zyga> hyperair: the project integrates with autoconf
<zyga> and existing autotools
<hyperair> zyga: yes, even with -MM. it still complains, but it reads the cached result anyway
<zyga> it just replaces the part that you generate the makefiles
<hyperair> zyga: heh? how do you use automake without causing a generated Makefile.in?
<hyperair> O_o
<zyga> hyperair: yes, you just write the _same_ stuff in a regular makefile
<zyga> hyperair: and the code they wrote uses pure gnu make to do the rest
<zyga> no generated 50K mess
 * hyperair shrugs
<hyperair> sounds like a lot more work
<zyga> ah
<zyga> found it
<zyga> quagmire
<zyga> http://code.google.com/p/quagmire/
<zyga> I checked it about 1 year ago last time as I had no use of that tech where I worked before
<zyga> hyperair: http://code.google.com/p/quagmire/source/browse/trunk/example/simple/Quagmire.mk
<zyga> example
<hyperair> zyga: that looks exactly like a Makefile.am
<hyperair> zyga: how is that different from using automake?
<zyga> hyperair: the way it works is 10x better
<hyperair> zyga: why so?
<zyga> hyperair: it's faster and there is no generated makefile for you to debug
<zyga> hyperair: automake is _really_ inefficient in what it does
<hyperair> zyga: only if you do the recursive automake style
<hyperair> i personally use .mk files everywhere, with non-recursive automake
<zyga> hyperair: the only advantage it that it supported arcane systems where everything was broken and you had to patch around with horrid portable sh scripts
<hyperair> it goes really fast.
<zyga> hyperair: right, automake is not bad by design, but the implementation could be better nowdays
<zyga> hyperair: it was also designed to work on non-gnu make
<zyga> that's really pointless nowdays
<zyga> hyperair: non-gnu make build systems are faster
<hyperair> it isn't.
<zyga> especially if you take account the configure phase
<hyperair> well that's just the configure phase
<hyperair> it's a one-off thing
<zyga> not really
<hyperair> what else changes?
<zyga> hyperair: if you build 1000s of packages the configure phase is slowing you down
<hyperair> heh i suppose.
<zyga> hyperair: you cannot do it in parallel
<zyga> and it's only broken legacy crap when you cross compile
<hyperair> well non-gnu *nixes still suck without autofoo
<zyga> hyperair: quagmire also has one advantage
<zyga> it uses less shell
<zyga> less shell = faster
<hyperair> lemme just check out quagmire's code and take a look
<zyga> hyperair: I hope they finish the work and that the project is not dead
<hyperair> i'm just not convinced.
<zyga> but believe me, non-gnu build systems can be way better
<zyga> the only problem is that you cannot usually expect them to be used in vast open source world ;-)
<zyga> hyperair: think about why large projects are switching away from make
<hyperair> zyga: general stupidity and refusal to learn m4.
<hyperair> zyga: at least, those are the unbiased reasons for using waf and scons
<zyga> hyperair: I say efficiency and windows build requirements
<zyga> hyperair: autotools on windows blows
<hyperair> what's hard about it? cygwin's almost the same, is it not?
<zyga> hyperair: no :D
<hyperair> honestly, the only thing i see as a viable alternative to autofoo is cmake.
<hyperair> the *only* viable alternative
<zyga> hyperair: first off - what if you have to build with visual studio?
<zyga> hyperair: then you only need cygwin to run those slow shell scripts
<hyperair> throw that crap away
<zyga> hyperair: it's not crap, you have to use it alot on windows because gnu on windows is not up to par with Ms stuff, really
<hyperair> compilations have i/o bound bits. the shell scripts aren't changing much.
<zyga> hyperair: you may not like it but it's true
<hyperair> especially if you have a proper sh
<zyga> hyperair: on windows cygwin is 10x-50x slower than regular shell on the same box with linux
<zyga> so having cygwin feels like using decade old PC
<zyga> hyperair: and if you build with cygwin you reguire cygwin.dll
<zyga> another bummer
<zyga> and what if you want to link to some platform specific bits, well ...
<zyga> to say the least: automake is not good there - it might work if you are carefully - but it's not optimal
<zyga> s/carefully/careful/
<zyga> anyway, it's not related to ubuntu
<zyga> if you really want to talk about this let's go somewhere elase
<hyperair> heheh
<pitti> cjwatson: just got a message from doko that gcc 4.5 isn't supposed to be the default yet (pending SRU discussion); accepted perl and base-files
<bigon> pitti: hi, I've installed posgresql and it listen on port 5433 any reason of this?
<StevenK> bigon: Because you have an older version running on 5432?
<bigon> well in the configuration 5433 is explicitly defined
<ogra> cjwatson, are we planning to merge initramfs-tools 0.92f for maverick ?
<ogra> (seems new flash-kernel has a versioned dep on it for kirkwood arches in debian)
<jcisio> hello
<jcisio> I want to search for a translation of "thing" in all Ubuntu package, how to get po of a certain locale in all packages?
<sladen> jcisio: does the Launchpad translations suggestions help?
<sladen> jcisio: that does fuzzy matching
<jcisio> no I want to translate automatically all menu items in the ubuntu-manual
<jcisio> so I need a automatical mechanism
<sladen> jcisio: so you have a peusdo .svg screenshot and want to replace the strings in that with that the user of (eg. Italian) will see?
<jcisio> yes, nearly
<dpm> hi jcisio, in principle you can't. You could download all PO files from https://translations.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/lucid/+language-packs . However, I would strongly discourage you from translating things automatically, since it tends to lead to very bad translations. Translation teams should be the ones translating and reviewing translations
<jcisio> I have "bla bla \menu{thing} bla bla" and whan to replace "thing" by its translation
<jcisio> s/whan/want/
<sladen> you really need  \menu{release::application::specificmenuid}  and (eg. everything that gettext needs
<jcisio> this is a 160+ pages manual, and those are things that are already translated
<jcisio> author won't like that lol
<sladen> jcisio: and then gettext will do that for you based on the available installed langpacks;  so just install (build-dep) on all of the language packs and have your make script do the replacement based on the native gettext domain
<dpm> jcisio, I know the Ubuntu Manual, but I'm just saying that not all languages are the same, and automatic translation tends to lead to poor translations, and a bad impression on quaility to users
<jcisio> For example in manual there is "Click on the menu item \menu{File} and then..." then I want to replace "File" with appropriate translation
<sladen> gettext
<sladen> use. the. same. methods. that. the. applications. themselves. are. using
<sladen> no automatic translations needed, and the user will see exactly what the application in real life will contain
<jcisio> many translators want to have it done like that, mean the translation of "sure" thing
<dpm> jcisio, how do you know, have you asked translators?
<jcisio> as when they translate, they don't rememer that is the "real" thing
<sladen> okay, fish the default out using gettext and have them check it
<jcisio> there are many suggestion like that in the mailing list
<jcisio> even in our team (Vietnamese), we need a consistence in translation (manual vs software)
<dpm> on which mailing list? I didn't see any on ubuntu-translators. Anyway, my recommendation is to leave translators do their work and review the translations other than the developers doing it for them. If you want to do it for a language you know, it's fine, but the same rules don't apply for all languages. In any case, for consistency you can use Launchpad's global suggestions, where translators just have to do one click to translate if the suggestion is
<dpm>  appropriate. I hope this helps. Feel free to join us on #ubuntu-translators if we can give you a hand
<joaopinto> dpm, if I understood it currently he is attempting to cross reference real software translations, for software strings, I don't see how could that lead to poor translations :)
<joaopinto> ops, s/currently/correctly
<dpm> joaopinto, unless he knows the rules for gender, plurals, grammar for all languages, and knows for certain that the translated string he's picking up coincides exactly with the one he's trying to automatically translate, it can be difficult
<joaopinto> dpm, he is referring to extract strings which refer exactly to a software string, there is no conversion involved
<joaopinto> like "Please use the File -> Menu -> Action"
<joaopinto> to "regular translation  File_String -> Menu_String -> Action_String", where _String are extracted from the pofiles
<dpm> joaopinto, so what's "regular translation then"? If I understand it correctly, he's talking about searching all PO files for all languages hoping to find a matching translation for the original English string. Even if that works, the translation might be out of context
<dpm> oh, I see what you mean with "regular translation" now
<dpm> But I still thing automatically searching for File_String, etc. translations is not safe
<dpm> Translators can do it themselves using e.g. translation memories
<dpm> anyway, as I say, I'd ask translators first :)
<sladen> jcisio: joaopinto: dpm: in theory, you can do something like  LANG=en_GB gettext -d gimp20 -s "File Open _Dialog"   but I can't get that to work just now
<sladen> and it'll return  "File Open _Dialogue"  (in theory)
<james_w> TheMuso: do you know of a bug somewhere for pulseaudio respawning very quickly or similar? I'm getting several reports of problems apparently caused by this, something is repeatedly trying to use rtkit in a very fast loop. Is that just a symptom of several possible problems?
<TheMuso> james_w: Pulseaudio is set up to automatically spawn by default if a client requests it. Since the volume indicator is running, if pulseaudio is killed, it will be respawned due to clients still running that need it.
<TheMuso> james_w: And I am off this week, so haven't seen any new pulse bug mail since last week, and prior to this week, I haven't seen anything along these lines.
<james_w> TheMuso: so it's probably pulse crashing on startup, and then getting respawned?
<TheMuso> james_w: possibly, I won't know till next week when I look at bug mail to see if anything similar has come up. Maybe crimsun might know something.
<james_w> TheMuso: thanks, I'll get the reporters to try things
<jcisio> sladen, joaopinto, dpm: in the ubuntu-manual list, the translator(s) want to reuse what that have been done in software translation https://lists.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/msg01672.html
<jdstrand> pitti: hi! did you happen to see my question yesterday regarding firefox?
<seb128> jdstrand: he's travelling to Brussels
<jdstrand> ah
<jdstrand> ok
<jcisio> I discussed with godbyk (tech coordinator of ubuntu-manual), too, and we agreed that a tool is good
<jdstrand> seb128: thanks
<seb128> jdstrand: he should be around in a few hours from now though
<jdstrand> k
<seb128> jdstrand: what was the ping about? I can ping him directly when he arrives there
<jdstrand> seb128: it isn't that urgent
<seb128> ok
<jdstrand> seb128: but thanks for the offer :)
<jcisio> problem is we don't know the string is in which package (in order to know that, authors must add more data, that they eventually don't know, in the document)
<jcisio> oh thanks dpm, I'm downloading the pack at https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/lucid/+language-packs it seems to be the right one!
<dpm> jcisio, no worries, be sure to download the base language pack, which is the one that contains all translations. It's going to be a few hundred Mb download, though :)
<jcisio> well, 500+ MB
<sladen> jcisio: the package (category/domain) is quite important as how a string has been translated depends on that particular context/application.  however, it's basically going to be the same for each Chapter
<jcisio> sladen, because of that, I consider count all translation of a string (two or three word string, maximum), and take the most popular one
<jcisio> I don't know if it could be done better, without the context of the package
<jcisio> (that is currently not included in manual)
<sladen> jcisio: information loss.  not a good idea
<sladen> jcisio: if you're trying to do something automatically, you at least need to give it the right input data
<jcisio> try to guess ;)
<jcisio> I think it's much to ask the author of ubuntu-manual to know in which package their text is in
<sladen> you'd kind of hope they knew which application they were writing about...
<sladen> you'd kind of hope it's mentioned in the chapter title
<sladen> otherwise the poor reader is going to have a heck of a time guessing what the manual is for
 * persia can imagine task-based chapters ("Listening to Music") that fail to mention a specific application in the chapter title.
 * persia hasn't actually looked at the manual, so has no real idea if that would be the case
<sladen> persia: but it might open with a title like  "Rhythmbox is the default music player in Ubuntu, if can be found in  Applications->Sound & Video->Rhythmbox Music Player"
<sladen> persia: s/title/lede/
<persia> Oh, sure, but it's harder to parse lead sentences than titles automatically :)
<jcisio> well, when I click on a menu, I don't know in which package it is
<jcisio> a menu/button in an application is ok, but the package name is...
<jcisio> well, if the manual is for apt-get thing, it's much easier
<jcisio> Actually, what I try to do is this: having this string:
<jcisio> Once your computer finds the Live \\acronym{CD} and after a quick loading screen, you will presented with the ``Welcome'' screen. Using your mouse, select your language from the list on the left, then click the button labeled \\button{Try Ubuntu 10.04}. Ubuntu will then start up, running straight from the Live \\acronym{CD}.
<jcisio> I detect \\button{Try Ubuntu 10.04}, and try to replace thing in {} with its translation
<jcisio> Two translator may have different translation for "Try Ubuntu 10.04", but there should be an consistence between manual and the software itself.
<sladen> jcisio: are we still debating about whether using the existing translation keys is a good idea, or how one might do it?
<jcisio> "how" - I think ;)
<jcisio> I just tried to explain why the package name is not neccessary
<cnd_mini> How do acls work in the ubuntu filesystem? for example, there's an acl on /dev/snd/controlC0; how does one query its properties or manipulate it?
<directhex> i wonder how that happened. my grub on my laptop was really old. like from january old.
<joaopinto> cnd_mini, the help channel is #ubuntu :)
<cnd_mini> joaopinto: yes, this is a development question
<cnd_mini> there's no docs I can find anywhere
<joaopinto> not really, unix privileges and file system management in general is support, unless you are developing, which does not seem to be the scope of your question :)
<cnd_mini> the only thing I've found close is in /lib/udev/rules.d
<cnd_mini> joaopinto: yes, development is my scope,
<cnd_mini> specifically, I need to know if there's any kernel dependencies to make acls work in the root fs
<cnd_mini> but as a base, I'd just like to know how to do anything with them
<joaopinto> file system based ACLs if implemented depend on the corresponding filesystem type support, and there is no such thing as "ubuntu filesystem" ;)
<cnd_mini> ok, but how do you query and manipulate them?
<statik> dumb question - does toolchain freeze mean that I should wait a bit longer before doing non-toolchain related uploads? or does it mean don't upload toolchain stuff but other packages are ok?
<maxb> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/maverick-changes/2010-May/thread.html would seem to imply the former
<statik> maxb: cool, thanks
<Chipzz> cnd_mini: AFAIK the only "ACLs" being used (and note that the usage of the word ACL is improper in this context) in your case are the traditional UNIX ACLs (user/group/other)
<Chipzz> and you can check those with a simple ls -l
<cnd_mini> Chipzz: if you do ls -l /dev/snd/controlC0, you should see a '+' at the end of the perms
<Chipzz> no further ACLs ae used
<cnd_mini> apparently, the acls are there, but the default une (maybe desktop too?) doesn't include the acl package
<cnd_mini> once I installed it I was able to use getfacl on it to see the acls
<geser> cnd_mini: you can query them with getfacl (from the acl package) (and set them with setfacl)
<cnd_mini> geser: yep, thanks
<cnd_mini> joaopinto got me straightened out with the acl package
<geser> Chipzz: some /dev have additional ACLs so the user can have rw access to it without owning the device node or needing to be in the group owning it
<cnd_mini> so it appears that the kernel I'm working on doesn't have POSIX_ACLs turned on
<cnd_mini> so that's the reason I'm having issues I think
<jdstrand> ogra: am I remembering correctly that arm doesn't work super well with qcow2 in qemu?
<jdstrand> ogra: hi btw :)
<hyperair> Just a reminder, it's Patch Day. Anyone with some time to review patches and help get them in the right places is encouraged to stop by #ubuntu-reviews and help out.
<Chipzz> geser: oh. wouldn't that be filesystem dependent then?
<cnd_mini> geser: Chipzz: there's a TMPFS ACL option, and tmpfs is used for /dev
<geser> Chipzz: yes, but the Ubuntu kernel has them enabled for most FS types (grep POSIX_ACL /boot/config-*)
<jibel> cjwatson, psusi, hello, about the ext4 failure, I reported upstream bug http://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=15910 . See if there's anything to add.
<ubottu> bugzilla.kernel.org bug 15910 in ext4 "zero-length files and performance degradation" [Normal,New]
<tankdriver> Hi, before I add another unuseful "me too" comment to this bug ( https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xorg-server/+bug/353126):  I can reproduce this bug in Kubuntu lucid. But this bug is definely filed as gnome-related. What should I do?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 353126 in vino "Compiz / vnc screen refresh with nvidia-restricted driver/VirtualBox/ATI fglrx driver using X.org" [Medium,Confirmed]
<JFo> cjwatson, or slangasek bug 574184 seems to indicate that the DVD images have bad checksums
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 574184 in linux "Bad signatures for 10.04 installer validation: MD5SUM SHA1SUM SHA256SUM" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/574184
<JFo> just wanted to bring to one of your attention
<JFo> not sure what package to assign that to though
<apw> yeah no idea what the iso image creator would be
<persia> I'd suggest adding an ubuntu-cdimage task to the bug, if it's verified.  That gets it to the larger set of folks that can help sort it.
<persia> (and #ubuntu-bugs is an *excellent* place to ask for help getting bugs in the right state)
<JFo> persia, :P
<psusi> my goodness there's a lot of bugs filed against gparted... time to whack a few
<bitshuffler> Hello. Could someone please tell me which package (postinst) is creating /etc/shadow    and friends?
<joaopinto> bitshuffler, grep "shadowconfig" /var/lib/dpkg/info/*postinst
<bitshuffler> joaopinto: well, problem is I don't run ubuntu here so I have to ask :)
<joaopinto> it's: passwd
<bitshuffler> joaopinto: sure it isn't base-passwd (that's what #debian said)? (on 10.04 that is)
<joaopinto> bitshuffler:
<joaopinto> /var/lib/dpkg/info/passwd.postinst:# Run shadowconfig only on new installs
<joaopinto> /var/lib/dpkg/info/passwd.postinst:[ -z "$2" ] && shadowconfig on
<bitshuffler> joaopinto: that's on 10.04?
<joaopinto> yes
<bitshuffler> thanks a lot :)
<joaopinto> I guess base-passwd will install passwd
<aburch> bitshuffler: base-passwd at least creates /etc/passwd and /etc/group.
<bitshuffler> ah ok, so if I run into trouble with "chmod: cannot access `/etc/passwd': No such file or directory" it might be cause passwd got installed before passwd. Does that sound logically?
<joaopinto> you mean passwd installed before passwd-base :)?
<bitshuffler> yeah, right ;D
<ogra> jdstrand, (sorry for the late reply, i got sucked into some ARM stuff) qcow2 works with qemu-system-arm, qemu-nbd i had issues with
<joaopinto> bitshuffler, installing a new passwd will run shadowconfig on, I assume that chmod error is from shadowconfig
<jdstrand> ogra: ok-- I had a weird hang in the guest when using qemu-system-arm with a qcow2 and backing store... have you tried that? are raw images generally ok too?
<joaopinto> bitshuffler,  grep chmod /sbin/shadowconfig, chmod 644 /etc/passwd /etc/group
<bitshuffler> joaopinto: I think so: http://pastebin.org/203320 (base-passwd get's installed a bit later)
<joaopinto> bitshuffler, in short, yes, that is the problem :P
<bitshuffler> joaopinto: thanks a lot :)
<ogra> jdstrand, i usually use raw, yes, if you see something like bug 532733 it would be awesome to get some more debug info though
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 532733 in qemu-kvm "apt/dpkg in qemu-system-arm hangs if a big task is installed" [High,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/532733
<ogra> nobody was able to get to the root cause yet
<jdstrand> ogra: ok-- it's possible that it was a networking thing, since avahi was being installed in the guest and I was using 'user' net
<ogra> ah
<jdstrand> (as opposed to tun/tap)
<ogra> hmm
<ogra> shouldnt though
<ogra> it should just do transparent NAT
<jdstrand> I'll play with it and report a bug if I can reproduce
 * psusi wonders why the hell a fully downloaded lucid dvd iso has holes in it
<Pici> psusi: well, there has to be at least one hole for the spindle
<psusi> lol
<psusi> seriously though, there are still holes in the file long after transmission finished the download
<psusi> it's weird... like there must be gaps of all zeroes in the iso image and I guess transmission doesn't bother writing the zeroes to the file?  so the hole remains...
<bitshuffler> Ok, if I got that right shadowconfig generates /etc/shadow by calling pwconv which should generate /etc/shadow. What could be the cause that pwconv does _not_ generate /etc/shadow?
<bitshuffler> (output of pwconv is nothing, no "x" is in the passwd file - e.g. "root:*:0:0:root:/root:/bin/bash" - which looks fine to me)
<joaopinto> bitshuffler, did you check the exit code ?
<bitshuffler> joaopinto: sry, how do I do that when I call it in a shell manually?
<joaopinto> I am looking at pwconv.c source and there are some predefined exit codes (not described on the manpage)
<joaopinto> bitshuffler, command ; echo $?
<bitshuffler> joaopinto: shows "1"
<joaopinto> #define E_NOPERM        1       /* permission denied */
<joaopinto> :)
 * bitshuffler is root
<bitshuffler> hmmm
<bitshuffler> is it normal in ubuntu that "ls -l" doesn't list "." and ".." at the beginning?
<joaopinto> bitshuffler, did you check syslog ? I see some syslogging for some errors
<bitshuffler> joaopinto: I have no services running (it's a chroot). Only log in /var/log is dpkg.log which I guess is from installation
<garet> hello, I am having troubles since lucid upgrade with kerberized NFS my client can't negociate with the server (server is a NAS). gssd reports "No supported encryption types"
<garet> it used to work in karmic (and jaunty)
<joaopinto> bitshuffler, do you have /dev and /proc bind mounted in the chroot ?
<bitshuffler> joaopinto: I can bind them in from the base system (which is suse) if that helps somehow
<joaopinto> bitshuffler, I am just guessing because I don't see any explit exit with that E_NOPERM code
<joaopinto> and there is an open syslog call at the beginning
<bitshuffler> joaopinto: http://pastebin.org/203388 is the strace if that's somehow helpful to you
<joaopinto> #
<joaopinto> connect(5, {sa_family=AF_FILE, path="/dev/log"}, 110) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory) <- might be required, the /dev bind mount should help here
<kees> smoser: say, I have ec2 all set up, but I can't figure out how to generate the SSH key I need to log into my instance with.  what's the right incantation?
<bitshuffler> joaopinto: with /dev bound in strace is http://pastebin.org/203398
<bitshuffler> ah, now I have in my syslog: "pwconv[19447]: cannot open login definitions /etc/login.defs [No such file or directory]"
<bitshuffler> which package contains /etc/login.defs on ubuntu?
<ogra> bitshuffler, dpkg -S /etc/login.defs ;)
<ogra> bitshuffler, its in the login package
<bitshuffler> ogra: cheers :)
<kees> smoser: ah, nm, realized that ec2 ssh keys aren't shared across regions.
<smoser> kees, thats annoying, but yeah.
<smoser> also annoying that there is no ec2-upload-keypair
<kees> smoser: yeah, now I have two different keypairs.  ;)
<Neo--> anyone going to UBS in brussels and would like to share a room in a hostel?
<smoser> i name them keypair.<region> and just always invoke with --key keypair.region ,and have ssh config pick the right onw
<smoser> one
<ScottK> jdong: Would you please ack the revised clamav upload in lucid-proposed (no new bug, just yesterday's upload was missing one commit on the powerpc patch).
<bitshuffler> Thanks a lot for your help guys, the only missing thing was the login package and now it's fine :)
<kees> smoser: is there a way to poke holes in the ec2 firewall for a single instance (instead of "default")?
<smoser> well 'default' is just a "group"
<smoser> you can ec2-add-group, delete-group and such
<smoser> i could be wron, but i think wonce you've launched an instance its in the group you launched it in for good.
<kees> smoser: okay, cool
<joaopinto> bitshuffler, great :)
<bitshuffler> joaopinto: yeah, thanks for your help :)
<pace_t_zulu> hey guys... is this the right place to get an answer about gcc-4.2 on lucid
<pace_t_zulu> like why are 4.1,4.3,and 4.4 available but no 4.2
<pace_t_zulu> perhaps #ubuntu-app-devel
<ScottK> pace_t_zulu: Generally re remove old GCC versions when no more packcages need it to build.
<ScottK> re/we
<ScottK> So without looking, I'd guess there's still something that won't build with newer than 4.1, but that wasn't the case for 4.2.
<pace_t_zulu> ScottK: ty
<pace_t_zulu> ScottK: i maintain the MATLAB page on the wiki... MATLAB prefers gcc-4.2 and presents the user with a warning... i currently do not have a work-around - just tell the users to ignore the warning
<ScottK> We're using GCC 4.5 in Maverick.  It would be nice if matlab would catch up a bit.
<directhex> matlab is, how to put this politely..... trash with a multi-thousand-dollar license fee
<ScottK> Very popular in some circles though
<directhex> yes, very
<directhex> circles that say "i don't care that it's 200x slower than real c++, it's easy"
<pace_t_zulu> ScottK directhex i agree
<pace_t_zulu> ScottK directhex some people don't have a choice...
<JFo> especially if it is a lab requirement
<pace_t_zulu> JFo: +1
 * JFo 'fondly' remembers matlab
 * pace_t_zulu can't escape MATLAB
<JFo> heh, my condolences :)
<JFo> I have a friend who is in the same boat pace_t_zulu
<pace_t_zulu> anyway... it is ridiculous that such expensive software, released this year, doesn't support > gcc 4.2
<pace_t_zulu> i just want to provide ubuntu users a satisfactory solution...
<pace_t_zulu> the workaround i documented at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/MATLAB#MEX%20functions worked great for versions of ubuntu < 10.04
<pace_t_zulu> ScottK: i noticed about maverick earlier... are the maverick repos live yet? i realize it's just the toolchain right now
<ScottK> It exists, but uploads aren't being accepted yet.
<pace_t_zulu> ScottK: ty
<oskie> what's the package called that does the ubuntu installation? i'm doing a debootstrap install and need to know what i need to run post-debootstrap
<oskie> the docs here seems a bit outdated: https://help.ubuntu.com/6.10/ubuntu/installation-guide/i386/linux-upgrade.html
<apachelogger> ping ping, anyone around who can bump a build scores for me?
<pace_t_zulu> oskie: why are you installing that way?
<pace_t_zulu> oskie: which version are you trying to install? that URL you are looking at is from 2006 - ancient
<oskie> pace_t_zulu: i'm trying to install ubuntu to a NFS-mounted root
<pace_t_zulu> oskie: are you "Installing on a NFS-server and using with diskless clients."
<oskie> pace_t_zulu: yeah!
<pace_t_zulu> oskie: try this URL https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/OnNFSDrive
<pace_t_zulu> oskie: that is definitely more current
<oskie> ah ok, i'll take a look!
<pace_t_zulu> oskie: good luck
<pace_t_zulu> oskie: btw... i got that link from here: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation
<oskie> pace_t_zulu: it seems none of those pages actually use the default text user interface installer
<oskie> either the recommend duplicating a complete installation, or running debootstrap followed by a lot of manual work (all different suggestions from different pages)
<pace_t_zulu> oskie: yea... i'm not familiar with what you are doing... just tried to provide some helpful guidance
<pace_t_zulu> oskie: maybe #ubuntu-server is where you should be asking this question...
<ScottK> It's certainly off topic for this channel.
<pace_t_zulu> ScottK: is there a better place for asking my gcc-4.2 question?
<ScottK> No, that one was fine.
<ScottK> It's the how to install over NFS that's off topic.
<ScottK> Nothing to do with development.
<ryan22> i would like to proposal a new development model
<pace_t_zulu> ScottK: that's why i suggested #ubuntu-server ;)
<ryan22> Ubuntu needs a change in direction. I propose that Ubuntu adopt a development model where only the core operating system, userland, core libraries, and desktop environment are frozen every 6 months. The applications would then be freely updated to the newest versions at all time. Package maintenance and support for the end-user applications would be provided by the developers themselves.
<ScottK> pace_t_zulu: Yes, it was a good suggestion.
<ryan22> more info here: http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/linux-distributions-5/ubuntu-needs-a-new-development-model-806162/
<pace_t_zulu> ryan22: hmm
<ryan22> i call it the semi-rolling release system
<ryan22> the stability of debian with the flexiblity of gentoo
<ScottK> ryan22: I'd recommend you right about it on the ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list.  That's a more appropriate way to bring things like that up.
<ion> Yeah, it will be awesome when stuff breaks at unpredictable times.
<ryan22> thanks
<pace_t_zulu> ion: +1
<geser> ryan22: and upstream has the manpower (and knowledge) to take care of their packages in Ubuntu?
<ryan22> ive implemented it in my distro (infinityOS) and it has worked perfectly for 2 months
<ryan22> the new packages would be pushed from the dev PPAs
<geser> how many upstream participate?
<ryan22> i just use the dev PPAs
<ryan22> it takes me about a hour a week to maintain
<geser> what about libraries that aren't part of core?
<ryan22> it depends on the library
<pace_t_zulu> ryan22: nothing stops developers from having their own repos and following your model
<ryan22> i actually did that myself
<pace_t_zulu> ryan22: ubuntu is simply providing users with packages that have been tested against particular releases
<ryan22> https://launchpad.net/~infinityos
<ryan22> i believe ubuntu rlease should be refoactored into being just a core os that launchpad builds against
<ryan22> a specification
<pace_t_zulu> ryan22: you'd rather ubuntu developers do less...
<ryan22> so they can do more with the core
<pace_t_zulu> ryan22: ubuntu is not lacking the core you describe
<ion> How do you guard against e.g. config syntax changes or other maintenance required by new upstream releases during upgrades within the same distro release?
<ryan22> i have 3 tires inspired by debian
<ryan22> stable, testing, and unstable
<ryan22> the packages go into testing or unstable depending on the their stability and depenencies
<pace_t_zulu> ryan22: do you think debian should do the same?
<ryan22> yes
<ryan22> my system works and my users love it
<geser> from how many dev PPAs do you pull the packages?
<ryan22> 20ish
<pace_t_zulu> ryan22: maybe you should start with the debian developers... i hear they are very receptive ;)
<ryan22> maybe
<ryan22> where would i find them
<ryan22> i know alot of times devs hang out in private rooms
<geser> ryan22: do you believe this would still work with several thousands? universe has currently around 13k source packages (and universe is pretty non-core)
<ryan22> as it takes me only hour a week to maintain it, i feel that it would scale gracefully
<geser> but the potential for conflicts is with 20 PPAs much smaller than with 1000 PPA (or even more)
<pace_t_zulu> ryan22: maybe you should bring this up once you have 1000+ packages and a stable release
<ryan22> i will have a a stable release in a matter of weeks. my gfx designer is in his finals, so im waiting on my branding
<geser> so you would need some coordination, especially for non-core libraries that are yet used by several packages
<ryan22> definitely
<ryan22> but the debian infrastucture would be more than sufficient
<pace_t_zulu> ryan22: so your proposal, in theory, is easier to maintain than ubuntu?
<ryan22> yes
<zyga> ryan22: I think it could work only in one case
<zyga> ryan22: that you don't do anything
<ryan22> it takes much better advantage of the scale of the ubuntu/debian community
<zyga> ryan22: just do the core and ask the upstream to package and release
<pace_t_zulu> ryan22: what's stopping you from beating ubuntu devs at their own game... you would, in theory, need less manpower
<zyga> ryan22: and provide an app store PPA for them to publish their stuff into
<ryan22> well i can of am actually
<ryan22> and thats what im planning on doing
<zyga> ryan22: but you said that right now _you_ do the packaging and merging/etc
<zyga> ryan22: that simply does not scale
<pace_t_zulu> ryan22: so are you here to put the ubuntu developers on alert then?
<zyga> ryan22: if you want upstream to participate then you have to convince them to package their stuff for one-more-system because it's good-and-all, that's not going to work
<ryan22> i am here to suggest you adopt my idea as i now greatly imbeeded in the interests of ubuntu
<ryan22> my proposal to convert my univeristy (trent university) to ubuntu has been accepted
<pace_t_zulu> ryan22: i think the suggestion has been noted
<zyga> ryan22: I'm sure everyone appreciates that you want to improve user experience and that you like ubuntu
<pace_t_zulu> ryan22: your ambition is impressive
<ryan22> http://tinyurl.com/excalibur-proposal http://tinyurl.com/excalibur-screens
<zyga> ryan22: but making changes like that requires serious coordination, it's not something you do overnight, if you want it accepted you need to put some effort and endure the pain it takes to do so for 2-3 years
<ryan22> i have universal support from the faculty and now i am supported by the administration and faculty
<pace_t_zulu> ryan22: what is ExcaliburOS?
<pace_t_zulu> ryan22: i commend your efforts to spread ubuntu
<zyga> ryan22: and worse, you have to convince everyone it's better, otherwise you'll get ignored, it's a code-speak game [un]fortunateluy
<ryan22> my custom ubuntu based distribution for my univertsity. i am aiming for it to be installed alongside windows in the computers in the computer science and mathematics dept in sept
<ryan22> lol ya alot of these reasons are why i am now calling infinityOS the firefox to ubuntu's mozilla
<YokoZar> jcastro: is the UDS roommate situation finalized yet?
<pace_t_zulu> ryan22: good luck... please keep the enthusiasm up :)
<ryan22> perhaps i should keep infinityOS and its release system separate for now from upstream (meaning ubuntu)
<ryan22> however i would fully welcome canonical support
<jcastro> YokoZar, I don't know about roomates
<jcastro> YokoZar, also plenaries are full, can you make yours a 5 minute lightning talk instead?
<YokoZar> jcastro: what is this
<YokoZar> jcastro: I registered first :(
<YokoZar> jcastro: but ok whatever
<jcastro> yeah there is some special guest coming on tuesday and is hogging a bunch of slots
<jcastro> ... or we can cancel lightning talks
<YokoZar> Also the title is gonna be different  I have way more than "not suck" to show ;)
<jcastro> I guess you're going to have to cram and talk much faster!
<YokoZar> All right then
<zyga> YokoZar: sorry to eavesdrop but is there any information about roomates anywhere on the wiki?
<jcastro> YokoZar, mail marianna and ask her if she can just post it on the wiki or something
<YokoZar> jcastro: done
<Airells> looking for good socket lib , any suggestions ?
<ion> socket(2)
<YokoZar> also jcastro I hope this is very exciting on Tuesday because an hour long plenary is a long time
<Airells> ion you mean popular "socket.h" lib?
<hdon> hi all. so i ran "apt-get source gnome-applets" to get the source code for multiload-applet. but when i run ./configure it says "Your intltool is too old. You need intltool 0.35.0 or later." is there a package in Jaunty that provides this?!
<hdon> looks like it's intltool-debian
<hdon> well that didn't work
<hyperair> does anyone here use sbuild + ccache?
<hyperair> i'm getting a crapton of cache misses
<hdon> oh maybe i didn't have *any* intltool installed
<hdon> looks like it likes the one that comes from the package "intltool"
<hdon> lol
<zyga> hyperair: no luck with finding what caused them?
<hyperair> zyga: =(
<hyperair> zyga: i've exhausted many things already, including HASHDIR, UNIFY, among others
<zyga> hyperair: can you post the log file to a pastebin?
<ryan22> well good luck everyone
<hyperair> zyga: there's nothing interesting in there. just a whole bunch of "Placed ____.o into cache"
<zyga> hyperair: mmm
<zyga> hyperair: out of curiosity, why are you using ccache with sbuilder?
<zyga> hyperair: I'm willing to write a gcc wrapper with extra feature and I'd like to know if it would be useful
<hyperair> zyga: because in the event of a failed long build, i can just get right back there almost immediately
<hyperair> zyga: it worked wonderfully with pbuilder.
<zyga> mmm, okay - makes sense
<zyga> why sbuilder then?
<hyperair> cache hit                          39377
<hyperair> cache miss                         22770
<zyga> mabe it's messing something
<zyga> oh
<zyga> then you _did_ hit something :-)
<hyperair> that's pbuilder!
<zyga> can you ask ccache to print each cache miss command?
<hyperair> the sbuild one... has
<hyperair> cache hit                            212
<hyperair> cache miss                          1543
<zyga> it's quite easy at the source level, I was doing that once recently
<hyperair> er how?
<zyga> just rebuild ccache with one more printf
<ryan22> i was wondering if anyone has thought of removing pulseaudio from ubuntu
<ryan22> i have removed completely from infinityos by request of my users
<zyga> ryan22: if you have more ideas please post them to the mailing list
<ryan22> no prob
<ryan22> thanks for pointing me in the right direction
<zyga> ryan22: it's not about posting crazy ideas, it's about posting crazy ideas to more than 10~ people currently watching
<kyle__> hey there i wonder if anyone could help me out? i am trying to patch a ps3 camera in and am following a guys terminal guide but have hit a dead end. Help??
<ryan22> zyga: rember the crazy idea are often the ones that gain you users ;P
<zyga> kyle__: try #ubuntu, this channel is not for support
<kyle__> k thanks
#ubuntu-devel 2010-05-06
<nigelbabu> lool: ping
<nigelbabu> whats your take on bug 525512?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 525512 in libtime-modules-perl "[MIR] libtime-modules-perl" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/525512
<hyperair> bah ccache generates a different hash each time.
<hdon> hi all. what jaunty package supplies gnome-desktop-2.0?
<hdon> and is there a way to search for filenames in packages not installed?
<RAOF> hdon: apt-file
<hdon> RADF: thanks i'll try it
<LinuxGuy2009> Ok I would like to get back into programming again.I havent really programmed anything since my high school days, I'm 30 years old. I know QBasic and Visual Basic. Is there any development environment or language that can get me up and running and making apps as easy as visualbasic used to do for me?
<directhex> vb6 or vb.net?
<RAOF> LinuxGuy2009: Python is excellent at getting up and running quickly; it lacks an awesome IDE (mainly because IDEs are hard to write for dynamic languages).
<directhex> RAOF, surely gambas for someone who mostly knows vb/
<directhex> ?
<LinuxGuy2009> RAOF: Ok. I did find a bunch of python tutorial videos that got me started with python. I didn't know where to go to make an app that runs in an actual window instead of just a basic CLI app. Any tips?
<LinuxGuy2009> gambas pretty good to use?
<directhex> gambas is a sort of "inspired by vb6" affair. i've never used it in anger, but some people swear by it
<RAOF> directhex: I've never used or looked at gambas, so I can't offer a useful comment.
<RAOF> LinuxGuy2009: The pygtk tutorials are reasonable; they show how to build a gui app with GTK+
<directhex> or there's MD. no gui designer for vb.net in it, but c# is a reasonable route from vb knowledge. ish.
<jdong> LinuxGuy2009: also consider PyQT and the QT4 toolkit, in my opinion it's easier to understand coming from a Windows Forms perspective.
<LinuxGuy2009> directhex: I want to really make a cd ripper app that combines all the best features of apps already out there. Think gambas could allow me to do this?
<jdong> LinuxGuy2009: I'd personally recommend using either Python or Mono/C#
<directhex> LinuxGuy2009, with enough effort, anything can
<LinuxGuy2009> ok cool
<LinuxGuy2009> Ill just try to find some good documentation and go from there I suppose.
<directhex> LinuxGuy2009, my weapon of choice is c#, but everyone's tastes are different. python is very popular in ubuntuland, but as noted, there's no gui designer
<directhex> well. integrated one
<LinuxGuy2009> right
<directhex> you can use a gui designer tool like glade, then hook the gui design file into your code by hand
<LinuxGuy2009> that sounds complicated.
<jdong> yeah and QT has similar tools as well, slightly more streamlined IMO
<jdong> LinuxGuy2009: not complicated at all, actually....
<LinuxGuy2009> hmm ok
<jdong> LinuxGuy2009: you basically use a form designer just like your VB designer and save a form.xml
<LinuxGuy2009> Ill add glade to my tools to learn
<LinuxGuy2009> Oh thats easy enough.
<jdong> LinuxGuy2009: and then you just call some load("form.xml") and then you can start referring to Button1 on the form and so on
<LinuxGuy2009> Oh nice thats what Im after
<jdong> yeah
<LinuxGuy2009> Ok ill stick with python.
<jdong> it also separates UI code from UI design (data) which is nice.
<LinuxGuy2009> cool
<jdong> LinuxGuy2009: if you're using Python, look at both GTKBuilder/Glade (GTK) and the PyQT4 equivalent feature....
<jdong> you might find you like one toolkit over the other
<LinuxGuy2009> ok good tips
<jdong> I feel QT4's API is a bit more "modern" and shiny than GTK, but again, everyone has his opinions
<jdong> LinuxGuy2009: there's also a great book on Python and PyQt4, http://www.qtrac.eu/pyqtbook.html
<LinuxGuy2009> yeah that was my next question.
<jdong> I've skimmed that book before and found it really nice
<jdong> you can start from it with zero knowledge of python or QT4
<jdong> and quickly become productive
<LinuxGuy2009> nice
<jdong> and as you go deeper into the book even advanced QT4 users learn something new
<jdong> if you don't like buying books, I'm sure you can orient yourself with online tutorials for either GTK or QT (I tend to do that), but books tend to be a lot more coherently organized
<LinuxGuy2009> I guess I would really benefit from a few good books.
<directhex> i always like a good book
<LinuxGuy2009> yeah
<directhex> sadly they're in short supply for c# on linux
<jdong> directhex: agreed :( but I do respect GTK# a lot for how much they "cleaned up *puts on flamesuit*" GTK's API
<LinuxGuy2009> C looks pretty intimidating to me.
<jdong> LinuxGuy2009: C would definitely not be my recommendation to someone from a VB background trying to write his first Linux GUI app :)
<LinuxGuy2009> ok thats comforting
<directhex> LinuxGuy2009: C would definitely not be my recommendation to someone from any background  trying to write any  Linux GUI app :)
<hdon> hi all. anyone know how to add gnome panel applets installed in /usr/local to the bonobo activation path?
<LinuxGuy2009> Ok so i think my plan is to start with python and make basic apps like i did with VB back in the day. Build a GUI calculator etc. With python and glade. Then Ill just build as I go.
<LinuxGuy2009> Thanks a bunch guys!
<Aquina> Blinken ,Umbrello and Smb4K (among other applications) depend on kdesktop and it's packages. These apps also depend on Qt3/4. Is it common to remove the whole KDE-Desktop stuff and though run dozens of applications which use Qt or should I *finally* switch over to GTK+?
<Aquina> I mean from a performance and DRY point of view.
<ScottK> Aquina: umbrello is a KDE app, so I don't understand what you are trying to do?
<hyperair> i finally solved my sbuild+ccache problem!
<hyperair> well at least, i know what's going on now
<lifeless> ...
<hyperair> http://paste.debian.net/72238/
<hyperair> that took me all of two days, i think
<lifeless> ouch
<hyperair> well, the first day was without patching ccache
<hyperair> the second day involved sticking printfs everywhere in ccache
<hyperair> and finally, removing the unlink
<hyperair> hmm
<dholbach> good morning
<dholbach> Development and MOTU Q&A Session in #ubuntu-classroom in 20m
<maco> ccheney: do OOo patches get forwarded to OOo-proper or Go-OOo?
<ccheney> maco: ubuntu patches are located in go-oo git tree
<ccheney> maco: for patches that are useful to upstream generally they are attached to related bug reports in official OOo issue tracker
<maco> ok
<ccheney> maco: they require copyright assignment though so for anything more than trivial fixes you probably have to do that first to get into official OOo
<maco> ccheney: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/openoffice.org/+bug/512395
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 512395 in openoffice.org "Openoffice.org's .desktop files do not contain translation domain info" [Wishlist,New]
<ScottK> maco: I've avoided copyright assignment requirements in the past by describing in words what the patch has to do to make it trivial to create one, but not actually provide it.
<ccheney> maco: yea i need to apply that to ubuntu version, that particular patch isn't even in go-oo (one of the only ones like that)
<maco> ccheney: but it should end up in go-oo or ooo at some point too right? not just stay in ubuntu?
<ccheney> maco: well it is adding just: +X-Ubuntu-Gettext-Domain=ooo-build
<ccheney> so i think that is sorta Ubuntu specific
 * maco re-reads
<maco> oh hey the word ubuntu is in there
<ccheney> i thought this was something specific to just our use of rosetta but maybe i misremember
<persia> That is Ubuntu-specific.
<persia> (and yes, related to rosetta)
<maco> yes i just fail at reading
<maco> i thought it was X-Gettext-Domain
<ccheney> maco: the rest of the patch is Ubuntu specific as well, so i will be adding that, it just wasn't high priority in the past since we don't use rosetta in OOo atm
<maco> and this is why i shouldnt try to review patches after midnight!
<ccheney> if anyone that is familar enough with rosetta wants to help fix OOo's bugs relating to that i would welcome it, i think i will probably be very short on time to fix it for maverick :-\
 * ccheney headed off to bed now, bbl
<persia> it's Patch Day!  Anyone with time to help review patches, please come to #ubuntu-reviews and join in!
<tkamppeter> Anyone around who knows about upstart?
<anon^_^> Had a question. Is there a good possibility that this bug will be fixed in 10.04?
<anon^_^> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/plymouth/+bug/563878
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 563878 in plymouth "Ubuntu splashscreen big and ugly after installing ATI graphics driver" [Low,Triaged]
<gord> anon^_^, depends if the ati graphics driver starts supporting kms
<anon^_^> You can just barely make out the pass field if you need to enter it
<anon^_^> it affects both ati and nvidia
<anon^_^> after you install a proprietary driver the boot screen changes from native res to 640x480
<persia> anon^_^: I suspect the chances are low, as it doesn't meet the criteria for a normal Stable Release Update: it's more likely to be fixed in maverick.
<ogra> and its nothing that can be fixed in ubuntu, its up to the driver manufacturers
<persia> The issue isn't that the driver ir proprietary, it's that it only provides a 640x480 framebuffer before X starts.
<persia> ogra: We could provide a special alternate image, but that's really just hiding the issue.
<anon^_^> wish i had a camera around, text is all over when you run LUKS and you're required to enter a passphrase to unlock partitions
<persia> anon^_^: You might be able to avoid that by using the text theme.
<anon^_^> i was hoping not to :x
<anon^_^> the new bootsplash is purty, or it was..
<persia> The issue is the balance of risk and benefit.  I'm not a person who makes those decisions, but since it's installed for *everyone*, it's hard to know that someone else's system won't break if different graphics are added.  See comment #5 for the rationale applied by the release team.  I imagine a similar rationale would be at least considered by the SRU team.
<arand_> Speaking of boot sru, there's a patch for two fsck/mountall/plymouth issues, with positve prelimiary testing, the problem is affecting quite a few users, quite badly. At this stage, is there anything more that could be done to facilitate a possible SRU? Bug #553745  and Bug #571707
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 553745 in plymouth "plymouthd crashed with SIGSEGV in ply_event_loop_process_pending_events()" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/553745
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 571707 in mountall "fsck progress stalls at boot, plymouthd/mountall eats CPU" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/571707
<anon^_^> persia on the flipside of that argument, if the bug effects all users of proprietary graphics and you leave everyone to fend for themselves, you're going to end up with a lot of people offering different solutions.  This could be good or bad depending on how you look at it
<persia> arand_: I think someone just has to do the SRU process.  Since you put it in a PPA, you seem a reasonable candidate :)
<persia> !sru
<ubottu> Stable Release Update information is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
<anon^_^> The faster an official solution gets out there the less likelyhood of people messing around in configuration files and causing havoc
<persia> anon^_^: Indeed.  This is why I'm glad I'm not one of the folks that makes that decision :)
<persia> But I'm not convinced there exists a current solution, which gets in the way.
<anon^_^> there was one offered on softpedia of all places
<anon^_^> I hadn't tried that yet
<ogra_cmpc> persia, there is a very bad one
<anon^_^> http://news.softpedia.com/news/How-to-Fix-the-Big-and-Ugly-Plymouth-Logo-in-Ubuntu-10-04-140810.shtml
<persia> ogra: Hrm?
<ogra_cmpc> persia, proposing to edit the grub config
<anon^_^> I started out with editing grub's config file
<anon^_^> that didn't work
<persia> That's not the right way to do it.
<ogra_cmpc> we have about 100 open grub bugs atm
<anon^_^> editing the grub header didn't work either
<persia> The right way to do it is to provide alternate artwork, and a fallback model.
<ogra_cmpc> that are caused by it
<anon^_^> it worked for some nvidia users
<anon^_^> supposedly
<persia> Yeah, but it's in the category of "works for a couple people and breaks everyone else".
<ogra_cmpc> the prob is that one of the blogs this solution is on uses some weird css that replaces " with backticks
<ogra_cmpc> and people copy paste the code lines
<persia> It needs a fix that is actually a fix, rather than a workaround.  This either is a fix in the drivers (up to the driver providers), or a workaround by providing alternate artwork.
<ogra_cmpc> right
<anon^_^> where's sabdfl when you need him?
<anon^_^> lol
<persia> anon^_^: Until a fix like I've described exists, nobody can do anything useful with the bug.  Doesn't matter whom.
<ogra_cmpc> but that doesnt solve the issue with people blogging bloken solutions and sheep following them
<ogra_cmpc> \*broken
<arand_> persia: Should I try to ping Steve L about it? I'm guessing the next step is to try to push it into -proposed, no?
<RAOF> uvesafb is not necessarily going to be a good idea.  Is that going to break suspend for people?
<persia> arand_: You shouldn't have to ping anyone specific: just follow the procedure, and if you need a sponsor to upload somewhere, use the sponsoring process.
<persia> !sponsor
<persia> !sponsorship
<ogra_cmpc> !botcomeback
<persia> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SponsorshipProcess
<ogra_cmpc> :)
<persia> No, the bot's here.  I'm just trying to get it to talk about stuff it doesn't understand
<ogra_cmpc> ah
<ogra_cmpc> nice that it doesnt error into the channel
<persia> Depends.  If you log into the bot, you can make it error into the channel when you tell it to do things, which can be useful for e.g. bot brain discussions, but yeah, most of the time it tries to be quiet.
<sebner> didrocks: hoi, did you already hear something about an empathy regression/bug in lucid?
<didrocks> sebner: not really, I guess kenvandine is following more than I empathy. Do you have any bug report to point me to?
<sebner> didrocks: not yet, I just wanted to confirm, I haven't found one and you are the last uploader but I'm opening one
<didrocks> sebner: sure :)
<sebner> didrocks: hmm, a little bit short, please tell me what debug info you need, (seems like an regression as there is an old bug report about something similar (only jabber though), Fix Released), https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/empathy/+bug/576290
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 576290 in empathy "Last upload renders contact list empty" [Undecided,New]
<didrocks> sebner: oh, there is a, upstream change to take the gconf key about not showing unconnected people by default on that upload
<didrocks> sebner: let me grab the key to check with you, one sec
<didrocks> sebner: /apps/empathy/ui/show_offline
<didrocks> sebner: should be on by default btw
<didrocks> sebner: (upstream is off by default)
<sebner> oh
<sebner> didrocks: ah, right sorry.
<sebner> didrocks: at least it doesn't respect my configs :P
<didrocks> sebner: no pb ;) it was an upstream bug to not take the value into account ;)
<didrocks> sebner: "doesn't respect"? do you have the gconf value set to false and it behaves differently?
<sebner> didrocks: well, I configured empathy to show my offline contacts, the update yesterday changed it evidently
<didrocks> sebner: right, but normally it respects your gconf value. I don't have a setup running right now, but I'll check again
<sebner> didrocks: then we have found a bug anyways ^^
<didrocks> sebner: I guess so :)
<sebner> didrocks: should I comment on the bug or will you?
<didrocks> sebner: let me first perform some check on a clean install
<sebner> aye aye
<didrocks> sebner: what version do you have btw, 2.30.1 or 2.30.0.1?
<sebner> didrocks: 2.30.1-0ubuntu1
<didrocks> sebner: ok, just to ensure :)
<didrocks> sebner: btw, I mixed up, it's off by default for us, and on for upstream
<didrocks> (still dist-upgrading on my netbook ;))
<sebner> didrocks: :)
<sebner> didrocks: it isn't karmic -> lucid though, I used lucid before, It's just the empathy update
<didrocks> sebner: yeah, I just wanted to ensure that it was related to the update. So, just to ensure, yourggconf  value is true or false?
<sebner> didrocks: true
<sebner> didrocks: update changed it to false
<didrocks> sebner: that's intended, it's the default and the old default was true (but not taken into account). The value changed, but not the result in the ui
<sebner> didrocks: shouldn't it _not_ overrule my settings?
<didrocks> sebner: it's just distro default. Your setting (in ~/.gconfd) shouldn't have changed
<joaopinto> good morning
<Tm_T> K'day
<l3on> Hi all... I'm trying to packaging a lib for ubuntu (karmic) but I have some problems with SHLIB in amd64 (i386 is fine). There are knowd issue for SHLIB in amd64?
<l3on> s/knowd/known/
<joaopinto> l3on, #ubuntu-motu is probably a better channel for packaging
<l3on> ok tnx :)
<hyperair> zyga: i've solved it!
<zyga> hyperair: tell me about it
<zyga> :-)
<slangasek> joaopinto: where do you see "update-manager -d" in the release notes?
<hyperair> zyga: i commented out an unlink line in ccache, hence stopping ccache from cleaning up its things. then i ran one build, copied away the tempdir, and ran another build. then i diff'd the .i files
<hyperair> zyga: the difference was.... -g stuffed the full path into the files
<hyperair> zyga: so i've gotten around that by patching sbuild to stop randomizing build directories.
<zyga> zyga: oh
<zyga> hyperair: oh :D
 * zyga talks to himself
<hyperair> hehehe
<zyga> sbuild is naughty!
<joaopinto> slangasek, http://www.ubuntu.com/getubuntu/releasenotes/1004overview,  do-release-upgrade -d, sorry. it's do-release* not u-m
<hyperair> zyga: i think sbuild randomizes the build directories for its fallback mode (i.e. no chroot) to work
<joaopinto> oh wait, yes, it's also on the u-m instructions: "Alt+F2 and type in "update-manager -d""
<slangasek> arand: bug #571707> yes, I'm looking at it, though I'm also only intermittently connected to the network right now so it's a bit slow going - if you can give me until the weekend I should be able to get that staged for SRU
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 571707 in mountall "fsck progress stalls at boot, plymouthd/mountall eats CPU" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/571707
<joaopinto> isn't changing /etc/default/apport sufficient to enable apport ?
<slangasek> joaopinto: oh - could you please correct this in the source document at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LucidLynx/TechnicalOverview and maybe review that for other bugs, and prod me again when it's done?
<joaopinto> ok
<joaopinto> I supposed those 'rc's on the iso links must be renamed to 'release'
<joaopinto> slangasek, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LucidLynx/TechnicalOverview updated: Removed the "-d" from update-manager, and all the RC/Release Candidate references
<mr_pouit> pitti: any idea why libhal_ctx_init uses dbus_bus_name_has_owner()? This fails here, and leads to Bug #546992 (I just subscribed you to it, see last comment for more info ;).
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 546992 in thunar "Xubuntu 10.04 USB, CD and DVD automount fails if autologin is on" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/546992
<lool> nigelbabu: Hadn't got time to look into this MIR; was promoting backuppc to main discussed somewhere?  I didn't see this spec
<lool> nigelbabu: it might make sense to look for another reviewer for the MIR if you can find one  ;-)
<zul> backuppc is already in main
<nils_> are there build logs for the precompiled packages?
<apw> do we expect to be able to upload to maverick in PPAs ?
<zyga> kirkland: ping
<persia> nils_: Yes.  https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/${SRCPACKAGE} will have links to each build on each architecture.
<nils_> persia: great, thanks
<ari-tczew> jdong: could you review sru for bug 574262 as soon as possible? I found a tester, so I don't want waste his time.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 574262 in gdm "[SRU] Please backport to Karmic GDM fix for bug #463376" [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/574262
<soren> ogra: I'm glancing at bug 532733..
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 532733 in qemu-kvm "apt/dpkg in qemu-system-arm hangs if a big task is installed" [High,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/532733
<soren> ogra: If you just install iso-codes directly, does it also hang?
<ogra> no
<soren> ogra: Ok.
<ogra> it only hangs under load
<ogra> and its not always iso-codes
<soren> ogra: Oh, ok, I thought you said it was.
<ogra> *for me* its nearly always iso-codes though
<ogra> others see hangs on different packages
<ogra> and i have seen different packages hang too
<soren> ogra: Ok.
<soren> ogra: What sort of disk controller does it emulate? Do you know?
<ogra> there is definately a race somewhere
<ogra> nope
<soren> Ok.
<soren> The I/O handling was changed a couple of years ago. It caused me some grief right around hardy's release.
<persia> Doesn't the same hang happen with qemu-user-arm?
<soren> Oh.
<soren> Oh, that's what rootstock uses?
<soren> persia: That would change things fr sure.
<soren> s/ fr / for /
<persia> I thought rootstock used qemu-system-arm: I just thought it was replicable in both.  I may be mistaken.
<ogra> rootstock uses both
<ogra> the hang only happens in the real VM
<soren> Ok. Then I can make sense of it again :)
<persia> Ah.
<ogra> and it only happens since about mid of lucid
<soren> ogra: guest or host?
<ogra> we have dug through the upstream changes (we being asac and me) but havent found anything obvious
<ogra> guest indeed
<ogra> (since it happens at unpacking of packages inside the VM)
<soren> Er..
<soren> Yeah, but that doesn't necessarily mean that another Ubuntu version on the host didn't make it go away.
<persia> Other folks reported the same problem around the same time on karmic hosts.
<ogra> right, its the lucid guest being at fault
<soren> Well, it's probably QEmu's fault, but it only happens with guests newer than karmic+Â½ or so. :)
<ogra> and the fact that enabling error reporting in the kernel alignment or using dbgsym packages of apt and dpkg both fix it point very clearly to a race of some kind
<persia> It may be worth noting that lucid saw a transition in armel from ARMv6 to ARMv7a+Thumb2 for lots of core packages.
<ogra> zyga's traceback shows some mmu stuff though
<persia> Dunno how that might affect emulation.
<ogra> it obviously does :)
<persia> ogra: I'm sure it affect it: I just have no idea *how* :)
<ogra> yeah, nobody has
<zyga> soren: ping
<jae> I have a "lucid" process still running (presumably that's the 10.04 updater).  I managed to kill X, so I don't have the window... it does have a socket open, so is there a way to reconnect to it?
<soren> zyga: No need to ping... I'm right here :)
<zyga> soren: ogra asked me to point you at https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/qemu/+bug/532733
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 532733 in qemu-kvm "apt/dpkg in qemu-system-arm hangs if a big task is installed" [High,Incomplete]
<soren> Heheh :)
<zyga> soren: I have two processes crashed with gdb attached
<soren> zyga: Scroll up a few pages or so.
<zyga> soren: one has ... okay, le me read
<zyga> soren: okay done
<soren> Ok, go on :)
<soren> zyga: So, you're seeing a segfault, but ogra's seeing a hang. Is that right?
<zyga> soren: so I have two crashed qemu-kvms with gdb attached
<zyga> soren: yeah but I'm doing a slightly different thing
<soren> Aha.
<zyga> soren: I have a hanged version ctrl+z around too
<zyga> in the same package as ogra
<zyga> one qemu is from stock lucid with debug symbols
<zyga> the other is built locally without optimize
<zyga> I posted backtraces from both to the bug report
<zyga> if you have any hints as what to inspect please tell me
<soren> A good start would be the output of "thread apply all bt full"
<zyga> both have just one thread IIRC but let me check
<zyga> hmm, lovely
<nigelbabu> lool: I dunno, the bug was assigned to you, I wanted your take on it
<zyga> ogra, soren: added to the bug report
<soren> zyga: ta
<zyga> soren: hmm? ambiguous command for my gdb
<soren> zyga: "thanks" :)
<zyga> :D
 * zyga was hoping to learn some arcane gdb feature
<soren> Nothing jumps out at me. I didn't really expect it to.
<soren> If I'd have to guess (without having looked at code /at all/), it's an interrupt the gets lost somewhere. It's trying to read something, and due to a race, the interrupt from the emulated disk controller gets lost or otherwise ends up not being handled, and then it gets stuck.
<soren> It's the exact sort of problem I had in the i386 and x86-64 code two years ago.
<ogra> so just apply your fix for us to arm then :P
<soren> The only reason we saw those was because of kvm being "a bit" faster than plain qemu.
<zyga> soren: is there any internal structure that we could look at to see pending interrupts? I'm not really sure how qemu works internally
<ogra> i'll pay you a beer
<soren> :)
<nh2> how to nicely set the email address created by dch -i? is it possible without an environment variable, maybe a configuration file?
<persia> it needs an environment variable (DEBEMAIL), but many folks set that in .bashrc or similar.
<soren> nh2: ~/.devscripts
<persia> soren: That works for you?  It never worked for DEBEMAIL for me :(
<soren> nh2: Oh, persia's right.
<soren> persia: No, my bad.
<persia> Oh well.  I was prepared to be excited.
<soren> ogra, zyga: I'd really love to stare at this for a few hours, but I'm really tied up these couple of days. I was just looking at the bug while taking a break from the stuff I /ought/ to be doing :)
<zyga> soren: ack
<nh2> soren, persia: hmm, my email in the shell configs is somewhat ugly (I share all of them automatically)
<persia> nh2: Feel free to investigate *why* DEBEMAIL doesn't work in ~/.devscripts, and make it work.  I suspect the reason it doesn't work is more philosophical than technical, but I've never investigated.
<nh2> persia: I found it: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=241939
<ubottu> Debian bug 241939 in devscripts "'dch' doesn't take DEBEMAIL from ~/.devscripts" [Wishlist,Open]
<nh2> persia: "I don't intend to implement this patch: the DEBEMAIL variable is recognised by scripts in several other Debian-related packages and is not devscripts-specific"
<persia> nh2: RIght, so you could do .bashrc.debian (as suggested), or find all the tools that use DEBEMAIL, and come up with some universal way to manage that configuration.
<persia> The latter is bundles of work, mind you, especially the part about convincing everyone to converge :)
<bigon> ma10: /wi1
<bigon> ark
<bigon> mako: are you around?
<ogra> soren, we'll use you for fallback staring then :)
 * ogra stares at this bug since several months now ... it didnt move !
<ogra> (it grows slowly though)
<nh2> persia: well, although I don't like that, you are right, and this is already layer 4 of my task stack (I actually want to work with my computer -> fix touchpad -> patch gnome -> create package -> fix devscripts?) Lost in recursion ;-)
<persia> Yeah, I started because I wanted to play vegastrike :)  Several years later I still don't play vegastrike (and it's not even in the archives in a useful form anymore).
<nh2> by the way, is ubuntu-devel the right place to ask people for testing such changes?
<persia> If you're patching GNOME, you may find #ubuntu-testing or #ubuntu-desktop more targeted channels for test requests.  #ubuntu-bugs can help with some stuff (verification of the issue in another environment, etc.) and #ubuntu-reviews with others (helping test a patch, ensuring the right folk notice it, etc.)
<nigelbabu> lool: backuppc has been in main since forever according to https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/backuppc, so the MIR might be worth looking into
<jae> Hmm, is there any documentation (more readable than the actual code) on what the karmic->lucid updater does?  So I can check what it missed due to X crashing.
<joaopinto> jae, no
<aLeSD> hi all
<jae> Ah, it's the old "it won't crash, so we don't need that" reiserfsck stance, right?  (Me?  Cynical?)
<aLeSD> why CONFIG_CPU_FREQ_DEFAULT_GOV_PERFORMANCE=y in the 10.04 kernel ?
<ogra> aLeSD, because it boots a lot faster with it ...
<ogra> aLeSD, its switched to ondemand after booting
<aLeSD> ogra: there's a lot of people saying that 10.04 use more energy of W7
<ogra> aLeSD, see /etc/init.d/ondemand
<aLeSD> ok
<ogra> thats called immediately if the boot is done
<ogra> so ubuntu still uses ondemand by default, just not for the first few seconds
<soren> Showing CPU speed in bootcharts would be fun.
<ogra> heh
<ogra> i think plars works on showing RAM consumption
<ogra> could be a funny followup task :)
<joaopinto> jae, there is a log on /var/log related to the update process I don't remember the exact filename right now
<fleebailey33> Hello, I have a macbook 7,1. And ubuntu, and no other linux works
<fleebailey33> mid 2010, non of them boot. I think it has to do with initrid and the sata controller
<fleebailey33> which is just mcp89 as far as i know
<fleebailey33> figured I would come here to mention to developement team
<fleebailey33> and willing to get any info your need to me to get or test
<fleebailey33> it is 100% not user error
<persia> Older software boots, or nothing at all?
<fleebailey33> persia: nothing
<persia> Hm.  I wouldn't even know how to suggest you file a bug that would contain the right information then :(
<fleebailey33> persia: i think its initrid, persia want my reasoning?
<fleebailey33> exactly, i don't even know whats needed
<persia> Well, does it boot when you don't use an initrd?
<Chipzz> persia: is that even supported?
<fleebailey33> well how do i boot without it?
<persia> Chipzz: Yes.
<fleebailey33> persia: and opensolaris boots
<fleebailey33> i am not concerned with installing
<fleebailey33> it wont boot even
<persia> fleebailey33: Don't add an initramfs on your kernel commandline.
<fleebailey33> persia: will try
<fleebailey33> also friends with z00dax from centos. so im trying a suggestion from him as well
<soren> ogra: Mine hangs at iso-codes as well. :(
<ogra> soren, we should just remove that package from the distro !
<ogra> and then every subsequent one where it hangs ... at some point the hanging *will* stop
<soren> ogra: Oh.. Logging in on tty2 made it segfault.
<ogra> sweet
<ogra> thats a normal VM then i get it ?
<ogra> not rootstock or some other wrapper around it
<soren> Normal vm.
<ogra> using rootstock i have no access to the VM
<ogra> no ttys or anything
<soren> I used rootstock like you said in the bug report. that created an fs image with ubuntu-standard in it. Then I booted it and went to install ubuntu-netbook.
<ogra> i captured another backtrace btw
<ogra> ah, right
<ogra> its attached to the bug
<soren> ogra: ok.
<soren> ogra: There's no way to use more than 256 MB of RAM? It segfaults for me if I go higher than that.
<ogra> yes, known limitation of the emulated HW
<ogra> in rootstock i use a swapfile mounted in tmpfs to work around that
<pitti> al-maisan, StevenK: do you have some minutes to look into gcc-4.5 binNEWing for maverick? (I'm in talks at somehands, sorry)
<soren> ogra: Any chance that could be our problem? It seems odd that it'd happen with iso-codes. It's a very simple package, after all.
<soren> ogra: Oh, right, it doesn't happen on real HW.
<ogra> others saw the issue with other packages
<ogra> its really not bound to iso-codes
<ogra> its just the most common one
<ScottK> pitti: Do you have any problem with us pre-promoting boost1.42 so it'll be in Main and stuff can build-dep on it?
<ogra> it seems to vary with the speed of your host
<ogra> or RAM or whatnot
<zyga> ogra, soren: I have a ULV laptop doing this (it's sloow) but my package is same
<zyga> (iso-codes)
<ogra> i think on faster HW it stops on a later package
<zyga> ogra: odd
<zyga> if fast cpu == program "lasts" longer then it's related to what? wall clock time?
<soren> ogra: No no, I'm not saying it's bound to iso-codes. I was just thinking it might be caused by running out of memory, and I realised that that was unlikely to happen while dealing with iso-codes, whose install is unlikely to be memory intensive.
<ogra> i have seen it several times stopping at iputils-tracepath myself
<zyga> soren: it should not crash the host though
<soren> zyga: The host never crashed for me.
<ogra> it doesnt crash the host
<soren> zyga: The VM has crashed.
<ogra> right
<soren> zyga: Which also shouldn't happen, of course :)
<zyga> crash the host == crash the VM running on the host
<zyga> if memory was low the installer should crash
<ogra> welll, it hasnt even crashed when i tried it in a real VM
<zyga> not the vm
<ogra> i could run commands on the second tty
<ogra> but had no dbgsym packages installed back then
<zyga> I'm running the process again, the last backtrace was unfortunate as the frame stack was corrupted and I could not see anything interesting
<ogra> i think i mentioned that in the bug
<ogra> when i installed dbgsym for apt and dpkg the hang vanished
 * al-maisan looks at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArchiveAdministration
<fbond> I see a lot more ads at the top of the screen when I search using the 10.04 Google start page than I do searching from the Google home page.  The ads actually take up about 75% of my netbook's Firefox screen real estate.  Does anyone know if this is this deliberate?  I mostly just want to make sure folks are aware of it...
<fbond> (Specifically, if the intent is to drive revenue, the current situation might very well have the opposite effect.  I find it much less usable than searching with the standard Google home page.)
<fbond> Maybe a screenshot is helpful: http://www.alittletooquiet.net/media/priv/google-fail.png
<fbond> Otherwise, sorry for the noise.
<persia> fbond: You may find that you get a more useful response by filing a bug.  IRC has poor state tracking.
<fbond> persia: What do I file a bug against?
<fbond> This seems more like a Canonical business issue of some kind.
<al-maisan> pitti: done
<persia> I *think* the bit that controls that is ubufox, but I might be wrong.
<fbond> persia: Seems like it would be server side...
<persia> fbond: Right, but the issue that *can* be reported as a bug is that the selected start page has usability issues.  That the issue might happen to be with the server that provides that start page, or the configuration behind it is a matter of the implementation of the bugfix.
<fbond> persia: Okie dokie.
<persia> Otherwise, I can't suggest how to report it in a way that lets normal bug tracking tools be used.
<persia> fbond: Good luck.  I'm sure it will get reassigned N times, but at least it can be discussed.
<ogra> fbond, did you try buying that lingerie ? probably it goes away then ;)
<fbond> ogra: Heh. I swear I was just after documentation. ;)
<fbond> Anyway, I thought Canonical would care about the threat to their revenue stream.  My instinct was to just change my FF home page.
<fbond> But I'll file a bug. ;)
<persia> Canonical may care, but this isn't necessarily the best place to reach those who care.
<fbond> persia: Ah.
<ogra> right
<ogra> bugs are golden :)
<persia> I'm not sure the ubuntu-mozillateam (who will receive the bug first) cares either, but at least they're likely to know the right folks.
<fbond> persia: #576467
<micahg> persia: actually, it's not the mozilla team, but the ubuntu-websites, since we don't control the custom search
<persia> micahg: Could you move the bug?  Sorry: ubufox was my best guess.
<micahg> persia: yep, np
<persia> Thanks.
<micahg> persia: actually, it's ubuntu-start-page and I moved it :)
<persia> Great.  I knew it belonged somewhere :)
<pitti> ScottK: boost> not at all, it's just a new version
<pitti> al-maisan: danke!
<al-maisan> keine Ursache :)
<ScottK> pitti: Nevermind.  I got ahead of myself, it seems we don't have it yet ....
<pitti> ScottK: need it synced?
<ScottK> pitti: It'll need to be merged in any case to drop the openmpi stuff, so let me put that on TODO.
<pitti> ah, right
<lool> nigelbabu: libtime-modules-perl doens't seem to be a dep of backuppc anymore; do you think the bug can be closed?
<persia> lool: It's not a rdep because it got dropped, but that causes a crash with one of the backupppc scripts.
<persia> lool: So the choices are to 1) patch backupppc to really not use it (rather than just not depend on it), or to process the MIR.
<persia> lool: On a completely different topic, it was suggested you might be a good person from whom to solicit an opinion about bug #570908
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 570908 in vala "Unable to build for PPA when there are patches to vala source" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/570908
<jdstrand> pitti: hi!
<jdstrand> pitti: did you happen to see my question regarding firefox?
<jdstrand> pitti: if not I can paste
<jdstrand> pitti: (from 2 days ago)
<ari-tczew> "Archive: toolchain freeze, but uploads work": is it about maverick?
<ScottK> Yes
<ScottK> Uploads will be held in the queue until the toolchain is ready.
<ccheney> is launchpad down?
<ccheney> i can't seem to connect to bugs.launchpad.net
<astraljava> ccheney: Doesn't load here either.
<persia> ccheney: Other reporters in #launchpad with the same issue (and fails here), so probably.
<ccheney> ok
<persia> And it's reported working again :)
<Pretto> why gwibber shows two entries on memenu?w
<zyga-nc10> is it just me or is anyone else hitting corrupted archive.ubuntu.com
<ScottK> zyga-nc10: There are transient cases where that happens, try it again in a few minutes.
<ScottK> Pretto: Help is in #ubuntu.
<Pretto> ScottK: ok
<jeandaniel> hello, my Lucid system can't reboot following a system upgrade including an upgrade of grub. The upgrade was done from a console, and I could read a big scary message about grub on gpt being unreliable (in capital)
<jeandaniel> my laptop is a macbook with gpt and bootcamp
<jeandaniel> I think it is a common setup, are there other users impacted? is there a bug I could subscribe to?
<jeandaniel> i would say this is quite a critical bug since I can not use my computer anymore after this upgrade. What would be your best advice?
<persia> jeandaniel: In general, #ubuntu-bugs is a better place to ask about bugs.  Bug #527833 sounds like it might be similar to your issue, but you might hunt around in other reports.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 527833 in grub2 "After grub-pc is upgraded on my SSD with GPT, it no longer has a BIOS Boot Partition until I manually chroot in and set it myself" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/527833
<jeandaniel> persia: thanks
<robertzaccour> i reported a bug a while back, and it seems there is no activity on it
<robertzaccour> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/574406 thats the bug i reported
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 574406 in linux "Realtek ALC272: Capture non-functional on 1025:034a" [Undecided,New]
<arand> If preparing an SRU from version 2.14 (of mountall), should the version number be 2.14-0ubuntu1? -0ubuntu0.1? just 2.14.1?
 * persia suggested 2.14.1, as mountall is ubuntu-local, and refuses the "ubuntu" string in the version, but was kinda guessing.
<joaopinto> arand, what's the bug nr for which that SRU applies to ?
<ScottK> arand: I'd go with persia's suggestion just because it's mountall and that's they approach keybuk prefers.  The policy compliant answer would be the -0ubuntu0.1 one.
<arand> joaopinto: Same old Bug #571707 and Bug #572786 that I'm always on about :)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 571707 in mountall "fsck progress stalls at boot, plymouthd/mountall eats CPU" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/571707
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 572786 in plymouth "fsck progress counter stalls, plymouthd eats cpu (dup-of: 571707)" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/572786
<ScottK> There's a they/the in there somewhere.
<persia> ScottK: Well, 2.14ubuntu0.1, as it's native.
<arand> Oh, sorry second should be 553745
<ScottK> RIght, of course.
<arand> Well the ubuntu0.1 scheme would break with all prior versioning in the package, I'm not sure if that is a good thing just in order to distinguish the SRU, or bad because it doesn't conform...
<robertzaccour> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/574406 thats the bug i reported
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 574406 in linux "Realtek ALC272: Capture non-functional on 1025:034a" [Undecided,New]
<robertzaccour> i did the apport-collect, what else can i do to try to get it fixed?
<persia> Probably best to wait a bit, in hopes one of the two triagers catches it.  If you don't hear anything in a few more days, try catching maco or JFo in #ubuntu-bugs
<robertzaccour> oh ok thanks
<robertzaccour> whats triangers?
<persia> robertzaccour: "triagers" are those who triage the bugs.  triage is the process by which we ensure we understand the bugs and can provide a steady queue to those best able to fix them
<persia> cjwatson: Any suggestions on what information would be useful for bug #576662?  data collection is (currently) limited to that available in OS X.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 576662 in grub2 "latest grub2 renders gpt based system unbootable" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/576662
<persia> Rereading the SRU procedure: HALP!  I need someone with a MacBook who is willing to potentially be unable to boot Ubuntu to verify bug #576662
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 576662 in grub2 "latest grub2 renders gpt based system unbootable" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/576662
<persia> Right.  No volunteers.
<persia> ping slangasek, Riddell, Hobbsee, pitti, mdz, Keybuk, cjwatson, kees, jdstrand, lool, pgraner, davidm, cody-somerville, jdong
<mdeslaur> persia: it sounded like such an attractive offer :)
<ajmitch> sorry, I don't have the $$ to get a macbook
<persia> mdeslaur: Well, it's not that hard to make it bootable again if one has an install CD.
<persia> But I think we ought care that we're potentially making ~1/20th of all installs unbootable.
<mdeslaur> :)
<mdeslaur> zul: persia needs you
<persia> (assuming that there is any correlation between reported Apple market share and use of Ubuntu on Apple hardware)
<mdeslaur> persia: zul has a macbook, maybe he'll be back later
<persia> mdeslaur: Thanks.
<ebroder> Does anybody know of a good way for a script to detect if it's being run on a particular release of Ubuntu or some distribution that's derived from that release?
<ebroder> I need this to work with older releases, so dpkg-vendor doesn't help me
<persia> lsb_release
<ebroder> persia: Do derivative releases not change the lsb_release information?
<jdong> (for each package, hash all files, if hashes match Ubuntu's... errr this sounds like iPhoneOS...)
<persia> If they don't, that's poor practice on their part.
<jdong> persia: I'll take a look at that verification procedure after I get back later tonight
<jdong> ping me again if I forget.
<persia> jdong: Hey!  You're on the magic ping-the-important-SRU-folk list.  What's the next step for this grub2 update issue?
<ebroder> persia: Right - I want something where I can pick out if I'm running on, say, Jaunty or anything derived from Jaunty (like Mint or whatever)
<ebroder> And I can't pick out the derivatives with just lsb_release
<persia> ebroder: No reliable way to do that.
 * ebroder nods. That's too bad
<persia> ebroder: Because derivatives can change anything they like when deriving.
<ebroder> Well, sure, but there could be best practices
<lool> persia: Pong
<jdong> persia: can you clarify what happened? Is the newest GRUB2 update making Macs unbootable?
<jdong> is the cause known?
<ebroder> persia: (e.g. right now I tie where I'm running to a Debian version by comparing the version of base-files)
<persia> lool: SRU procedure says I should ping you when there's a reported SRU regression: bug #576662
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 576662 in grub2 "latest grub2 renders gpt based system unbootable" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/576662
<lool> persia: Which grub2 is this?
<persia> 1.98-1ubuntu6
<lool> I have 1.98-1ubuntu6 installed at home, and I'm not 100% I booted from a hard disk with that grub2, but quite likely so
<lool> (with gpt)
<persia> lool: On a MacBook?
<lool> No
<persia> My understanding is that Apple has a special, and odd, implementation of GPT.  I may be misinformed.
<lool> That might be
<jdong> persia: ok, if this is being widespread reported then the archive managers should probably be pinged to pull/403 the update until we can identify the cause
<lool> persia: What indicates a regression over the final lucid version?
<jdong> lool: lucid boots but lucid-updates doesn't boot :)
<persia> That the reporter was using 10.04 fine until they upgraded.
<jdong> that seems to be the reported regression here
<jdong> and it sounds painfully serious
<jdong> I'll attempt to reproduce it on my hardware in a few minutes
<jdong> (I've got two macs sitting here)
 * persia will wait for zul (or someone) to confirm before setting Critical and asking for update blocks.
<persia> jdong: Thanks!
<lool> jdong: Oh it's you, great
<jdong> persia: thank *you* for being on top of this!
<lool> jdong: Could you take a backup of /var/cache/debconf as the first thing when you boot your system again?
<persia> *before* the grub2 update :)
<lool> There's actually a .old version of the debconf files
<lool> so it should have the version prior to the update *hopefully*
<persia> RIght, but it might be hard to recover if he can't boot :)
<jdong> ok, will do
<lool> (config.dat versus config.dat-old)
<lool> jdong: You can boot from CD I guess?
<jdong> lool: eh probably :)
<lool> I'm pretty sure cjwatson is sleeping right now
<lool> it was published on 2010-05-03, and the bug was reported today
<persia> I thought he'd be sleeping, but sbeattie suggested I ping him
<lool> persia: It's part of the process
<lool> So my gut feeling on urgency is that it's the class of bug we should immediately tend to, but because the regression was "only" discovered 3 days after its publication, I suspect it wont hurt too much if I let cjwatson sleep over it (I do consider solving it myself, but it would probably involve spending the next 4 hours trying to understand the bug and then being too tired to be confident in the fix  :-)
<lool> What I could do right now is revert the diff in an ubuntu7
<persia> Well, based on bug #508172, I think that breaks for other folks.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 508172 in ubuntuone-client "automatic syncronization not run at login - logout session (dup-of: 455544)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/508172
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 455544 in ubuntuone-client ""Protocol version error" - when bandwidth throttling is enabled with the default values" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/455544
<lool> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/grub2/+bug/508173 seems equally problematic though
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 508173 in oem-priority "postinst has errors with grub-probe that cause the system to stop booting" [High,Fix committed]
<lool> persia: Yes
<persia> Err, bug #508173
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 508173 in oem-priority "postinst has errors with grub-probe that cause the system to stop booting" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/508173
<lool> persia: We are on line
<lool> So reverting the change would just flip back to affecting another use case
<persia> So I think it needs to get sorted right, even if that takes a while.  I just wanted to make sure it got verified and escalated properly.
<jdong> ok, booted, upgrading
<jdong> (backed up debconf already)
<jdong> ok rebooting
<lool> persia, jdong: So, after thinking this through, I certainly dont think it's reasonnable for me to try to fix grub2 for both use cases overnight, I find it much more reasonnable to raise this to cjwatson tomorrow morning (in 8 hours-ish); Dell actually shipped volumes of preinstalled system in this configuration, while the number of macbook systems running Ubuntu is probably lower; hence I dont want to return to ubuntu5 either
<jdong> 1.98-1ubuntu6 appears to boot for me.
<persia> lool: I agee.
<lool> NB: The goal of the SRU regression process is to remove the regression, but in this case, the fix seems more valuable than the regression
<lool> jdong: It's the one which didn't boot though?
<persia> jdong: Thanks for double-checking.
<jdong> lool: ok can you document the circumstances and your decision on either the original SRU or one of the regression bugs?
<jdong> lool: I don't know which one isn't supposed to boot. my system booted before, I dist-upgraded, and it still boots
<persia> jdong: I think you failed to replicate 576662, which is a good thing.
<jdong> hehe
<jdong> at least on one system :)
<persia> Right, but that reduces the severity from *ALL GPT SYSTEMS* to "some folks have issues"
<persia> Since the prior state was "some folks have issues", I'm not as wildly excited as I was earlier.
<lool> jdong: I will do that, yes
<jdong> thank you
<jdong> and yeah, indeed, it doesn't APPEAR as drastic
<lool> jdong: Note that this is valid and will be addressed, just defered further analysis to the best person
<jdong> understood. Sounds great
<lool> jdong: So you reinstalled ubuntu6 and now it works
<lool> ?
<jdong> 1ubuntu6 is what aptitude chose for me, and it boots
<jdong> I've never experienced the unbootable bug
<lool> jdong: Oh so you have a similar system as in the bug, but you cant reproduce?
<lool> jdong: Could you document this in the bug please?
#ubuntu-devel 2010-05-07
<jdong> ok will do
<lool> jdong, persia: updated the bug
<jdong> thanks
<persia> lool: jdong: Thanks
<lool> Hmm but jdong wasn't upgrading from karmic
<lool> Which is precisely the code path which the SRU addresses
<persia> jeandaniel: Was your install an upgrade from karmic?
<jdong> lool: ah, that makes a difference?
<zul_> persia: ping
<persia> zul_: Your name was mentioned to help verify bug #576662
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 576662 in grub2 "latest grub2 renders gpt based system unbootable" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/576662
<persia> zul_: Your machine doesn't happen to be an upgrade from karmic, does it?
<zul> persia: no i upgraded fine
<persia> OK, I'm feeling a lot more comfortable.
<mdeslaur> zul: did you upgrade to the latest grub2 update?
<mdeslaur> zul: actually, are you using grub2?
<lool> jdong: Yup
<lool> persia: I mailed cjwatson now
<zul> mdeslaur: yeah im not sure which version of grub im using...gimme a sec
<zul> assuming this is on the mac right?
<jdong> yes
<lool> persia: Fwed to you
<lool> Not sure whether I should forward to TB
<persia> lool: Thanks.
<lool> Seems overkill
<persia> I think it's overkill with the chourus of negative replication attempts.
<zul> persia: 1.98-1ubuntu6 but im not running it from a MBR
<persia> zul: I didn't think you *had* an MBR on a MacBook.
<lool> persia: Dont you need to tag one bug regression-update?
<jdong> lool: if everyone were reproducing it, then I'd panic and get the TB involved. Right now, that does not seem to be the case.
<persia> sbeattie told me to tag it verification-failed
<lool> Hmm I fantasy that regression-update tag I think
 * lool => bed &
<jdong> persia: is it still in -proposed?
<jdong> or -updates already?
<jdong> it's in -updates
<persia> jdong: -updates
<jdong> it's a regression-update, not a verification-failed
<persia> Ah.
<jdong> v-f is for -proposed packages not working
<persia> sbeattie: ^^
<persia> Does that tag go against the new bug or the old bug?
<jdong> errrrr it should go against the old bug, the actual SRU
<jdong> and probably this bug should be tagged dupe of the original SRU as well, if we're 100% sure the SRU is the cause.
 * persia got very different instructions in #ubuntu-testing a while back, and suspects there would be benefit to an ubuntu-sru+sru-verification meeting
<persia> regression-update added to 508173
<cnd> I have a new package in debian sid, and I'd like to do a sync request to have it synced to lucid
<cnd> should I be using the -e option of requestsync in this instance?
<xnox> cnd, it should go at SRU
<xnox> !SRU
<ubottu> Stable Release Update information is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
<xnox> cnd, i don't know whether requestsync supports that =)
<xnox> cnd, try it and change the resulting bug report to match SRU requirements
<cnd> xnox: are you sure? this wouldn't be an update to an existing package
<persia> cnd: Can't do it.
<xnox> cnd, we have released lucid already you can't add *new* packages
<cnd> persia: oh, I thought you could
<persia> cnd: New packages have to appear in new releases.  Once it's in maverick, it can be backported.
<cnd> ok, nm then
<cnd> thanks!
<persia> So you can get it into lucid-backports, but not lucid.
<YokoZar> oh snap I think I found a genuine dpkg bug
<cnd> yeah
<persia> (and not lucid-updates)
<xnox> YokoZar, what about?
<YokoZar> xnox: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/wine1.2/+bug/571999  -- it seems to be using the wrong Conflicts information.  wine (karmic) user upgrades, wine (lucid) is a dummy package that installs wine1.2 (lucid).  wine1.2 (karmic) conflicts with wine, but wine1.2 (lucid) doesn't conflict.  dpkg refuses to upgrade, saying that wine1.2(lucid) conflicts with wine.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 571999 in wine1.2 "package wine1.2 (not installed) failed to install/upgrade when both wine and wine1.2 are installed" [High,Confirmed]
<xnox> hmmm shouldn't wine (lucid) have Conflicts wine << version.in.karmic?
<xnox> that way you make sure that wine karmic is removed first and then lucid's wine1.2 is installed
<xnox> ?
<YokoZar> xnox: err yeah, it does
<xnox> huh
<xnox> now this is strange
<xnox> let me look
<YokoZar> xnox: if you look at the log it upgrades wine(karmic) to wine(lucid)
<lifeless> maxb: https://code.launchpad.net/~maxb/ubuntu/maverick/junitperf/ari-tczew-lp-521390/+merge/24868 - are you entirely happy with the diff that bzr is generating ?
<lifeless> maxb: I'm looking at the mail that was sent out and wondering if we can make what you're doing more obvious
<maxb> Well, what I was trying to do was to discover whether playing with prerequisite branches could make LP generate a nicer diff, and the answer seemed to be no
<maxb> I think the one absolute that can be agreed on is that there is no single diff that is appropriate for all merges
<xnox> YokoZar, I've added useful comment to that bug.
<lifeless> maxb: we can try.
<lifeless> maxb: so what structure of pre-req branches did you use?
<maxb> I just tried pointing it at lp:debian/junitperf. It conflicted horridly
<xnox> maxb, I've tried using prerequisite branches before and it seems like the merge generation uses 3-way diff instead of actually performing bzr diff --old --new. I've tried to represent debian sid, ubuntu-merge (my) & ubuntu-current branches for a package and both diffs on the merge proposal
<xnox> had conflict markers although if you pull the branches in order on your machine they are fully merged and have no conflicts
<xnox> there is a bug about it tagged with "udd" but i can't be asked to search for it now =)
<lifeless> maxb: what did you expect/want it to do ?
<maxb> I expected it to not do what I wanted. I vaguely hoped it might do something useful :-)
<xnox> I was expecting pre-requisite to generate: debdiff between candidate version and current debian. debdiff between candidate and current ubuntu version =)
<ajmitch> maxb: I was able to diff the branch there against the debian branch locally without any issues
<xnox> I failed to achieve that =)
<maxb> Ultimately I think there needs to be a special merge proposal mode specifically for ubuntu merges
<maxb> You really want to see two diffs: (1) common-ancestor(merge-source, debian-equivalent-of-ubuntu-merge-target)..merge-source  and (2) result-of-merge as we have now, but only the debian/ directory
<lifeless> maxb: lets try for better labels
<lifeless> maxb: I think you mean 'code changes' and 'packaging changes' as separate diffs
<maxb> The thing about my (1) is that it is *not* 'change introduced by this merge', it is 'ubuntu delta remaining after this merge'
<lifeless> maxb: thus why we want better labels.
<lifeless> maxb: so there are three things that may be interesting in a merge from debian:
<lifeless>  - upstream changes, debian[code and packaging] changes, ubuntu[code and packaging] changes we're discarding, ubuntu[code and packaging] changes being altered by the merge
<lifeless> perhaps
<lifeless> I'm going to write a coverall bug on this; I certainly agree that we need more sophisticated review diffs; I don't necessarily agree that we can't come up with a single sane one (as an umbrella thing with sections or something)
<psusi> bah!  damn kernel apparently ignores the fact that blocks are in the buffer cache from being read on the raw block device, and reads them again when you read the file
<ion> Ouch
<psusi> I got ureadahead reworked to read on the raw block device rather than going through the filesystem.... so it finishes real fast and gets peak disk throughput.. but then everything gets read again slowly as the buffer cache is totally ignored
<ion> Heh
<jdong> psusi: hahahaha!
<psusi> I HAVE A PLAN!
 * psusi codes like the wind
<psusi> I'm going to try reading only the directories through the raw block device, and go back to opening and reading files normally
<blendmaster1024> when is DIF for the next release?
<blendmaster1024> whatever it's called
<virtuald> blendmaster1024: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MaverickReleaseSchedule
<blendmaster1024> thank you
<blendmaster1024> i have a game i'm working on that i'd like to see a demo of in maverick
<virtuald> :>
<blendmaster1024> so i need to have an idea of when to have the demo done by
<blendmaster1024> woah i only have till june ...
<lifeless> maxb: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad-code/+bug/509901
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 509901 in udd "UDD Docs should discuss pre-requisite branch setting in merge proposals" [Undecided,Won't fix]
<virtuald> do you guys know of any app for todo lists?
<blendmaster1024> is it just me, or is ubottu all-powerful?
<blendmaster1024> (j/k)
<blendmaster1024> seems like it can do everything any other information bot can, plus a lot
<blendmaster1024> is it custom for ubuntu?
<virtuald> i don't know much about it, maybe ask in #ubuntu-bots
<blendmaster1024> the people there ignore the channel :/
<virtuald> ok
<imbrandon> blendmaster1024: yes its custom for Ubuntu, originaly written by Seveas , you can find the code for it ( and the other bots ) on Launchpad, they are opensource
<blendmaster1024> cool
 * ScottK had forgotten how long boost takes to build.
<ajmitch> ScottK: will earlier versions of boost be removed from maverick?
<ScottK> ajmitch: That would be the goal.  Same as usual.
 * ajmitch was just wondering if it was still worth doing the boost1.40 merge
<ScottK> ajmitch: I'd vote no.
<ScottK> Better spend the time on getting stuff on 1.42 after it's in.
<ajmitch> ok
<ScottK> pitti: boost1.42 is in source New.  If we can get that through New (source and binary) and into Main and boost-defaults sync'ed before the first autosync run, I think it will save us rebuilds later and make the boost transition easier.
<ScottK> That or maybe slangasek will have insomnia and take care of it....
<MTecknology> I'm trying to figure this out - how do I use aptitude-run-state-bundle?
<MTecknology> If I run it on the file I generated from its counterpart it opens aptitude after working for a while and making a temp directory- but I can't restore teh packages state from it
<MTecknology> or am I just using it wrong?
<dholbach> good morning
<zyga> good morning
<arand> andersk: I was thinking of updating my ppa packages with your patch for mountall, just to make sure, your patch replaces Tero Mononen's right?
<arand> (I really don't trust my lacking know of code, one bit)
<andersk> arand: Yes, my patch replaces all the previous mountall patches. (Plymouth still needs to be patched separately.)
<arand> andersk: Okay, I'll slap the new mountall up to my ppa then.
<joaopinto> good morning
<elleuca> was the "find and replace" OO.o dialog customized in 10.04?
<unimatrix> why is fitts's law broken in ubuntu 10.04 again?
<unimatrix> doesn't anyone care about this?
<Tm_T> unimatrix: is there bug report about this?
<unimatrix> Tm_T i've reported one for karmic
<unimatrix> and nobody gave a damn
<unimatrix> in lucid it's even worse
<Tm_T> unimatrix: then you should update that bugreport with new details
<unimatrix> Tm_T it's a new bug
<unimatrix> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/human-theme/+bug/436066 <-- this is the old one (still present in lucid, since karmic)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 436066 in human-theme "Human theme vertical scroolbars have borders on maximized windows" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<unimatrix> now i need to open yet another one for the buttons
<unimatrix> but what's the point when nobody is going to look at it for the next 5 years
<Tm_T> I'd say more than complaining in irc (:
<ScottK> asac: I've uploaded the new boost for Maverick (1.42) and it's in New.  The build system changed since 1.40 (no longer using CMake) and so I'm not certain my port of the thumb patch to the new version is complete.  Would you please have someone take a look at it? https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/maverick/+queue?queue_state=0
<ScottK> unimatrix: The design group is on #ayatana, so possibly more luck there.
<unimatrix> ScottK thanks
<pitti> jdstrand: firefox> no, I had a server outage which ate my IRC proxy scrollback
<pitti> ScottK: boost1.42 source NEWed to main
 * pitti -> back to conference
<jdstrand> pitti: k, here you go:
<jdstrand> 10:03 < jdstrand> pitti: hi! can I have you opinion on http://people.canonical.com/~jamie/ff36-apparmor.diff.txt? background: there is a pending firefox update and there are these 4 bug fixes to the apparmor profile. the aa profile is disabled by default and no chance of regression (plus, me and several other people use the profile with these commits)
<jdstrand> 10:04 < jdstrand> pitti: the question is whether to SRU these separately, with all the associated archive churn, or push them with the pending security update
<jdstrand> 10:05 < jdstrand> pitti: I wouldn't normally ask, but in the case of firefox, upstream adds features and bug fixes beyond security fixes, so these low regression potential items seemed kinda gray...
<jdstrand> (don't worry about Chris' changelog entry-- it is unrelated)
<pitti> jdstrand: looks safe to me, I think it's fine to include it
<ogra> hmm, is the archive usable now ?
 * ogra wonders why uploads still end up in unapproved
<pitti> ogra: I asked for thawing
<pitti> (yesterday and today)
<ogra> thanks :)
<jdstrand> pitti: thanks!
<pitti> but I can't be on IRC very often during the conference
<ogra> indeed
<nigelbabu> lool: so whats the final call on the MIR?
<ScottK> pitti, doko: dpkg-checkbuilddeps: Unmet build dependencies: build-essential <-- boost1.42 - It sure didn't do that when I test built it last night .....
<doko> ScottK: yes, there are other strange things: see the binutils build failure on i386 ...
<ScottK> doko: OK.  I'll be patient then.
<wgrant> doko: Those build failures are some pretty odd maverick brokenness.
<wgrant> http://paste.ubuntu.com/429514/ looks reasonably bad.
<wgrant> ScottK: ^^
<ScottK> Thanks.
<ScottK> Some kind of in completeness in the switch to 4.5 then.
<wgrant> Looks like it.
<ScottK> pretend that space wasn't there...
<wgrant> Well, I can't see gcc 4.5 anywhere, except in some dependency lines.
 * StevenK twitches at ScottK's sync package name
<ScottK> The boost-defaults one?
<StevenK> ScottK: python-django-djblets
<ScottK> Ah.  Yes.
<StevenK> It has djb in it. Worse, implications of more of them. Noooooooooooooooo.
<ScottK> Stuff like that you just can't make up.
<soren> ScottK: Why is it called djblets? I don't see any references to djb in there. :-/
<ScottK> soren: I just fixed it.  I didn't name it.
<soren> ScottK: I just thought you might know.
<StevenK> I think I'd rather blacklist it, than sync it
<ScottK> You'd have to remove it too.
<ScottK> And that still wouldn't remove the history.
<StevenK> No, I can do them seperately
<StevenK> blacklisting just means it can't be synced
<StevenK> It is able to exist in the archive while being blacklisted
<ryan22> ive decided to fork ubuntu
<ejat> ?
<ryan22> I have serious concerns about the release system employed by Ubuntu and feel that the sound system it uses is inadequate for the needs of the average user (it can stream music to your kitchen but can't play games...). The proposals I posted on the Ubuntu developer mailing lists were rejected so I will be taking infinityOS, my distribution, in a different direction then Ubuntu. infinityOS will remain 100% binary compatible with Ubuntu. My go
<ryan22> for infinityOS to become the Firefox to Ubuntu's Mozilla.
<ryan22> My distribution will be switching from PulseAudio to OSS4 as it provides per-application volume controls while remaining compatible with existing applications and code.
<ryan22> I find the notion that existing application should modify their code to work PulseAudio ridiculous, especially when OSS4 works without modification
<ryan22> *with
<ScottK> ryan22: Off topic for this channel.
<ryan22> alright
<ryan22> sorry
<ryan22> i have told the ubuntu developers that will remain in contact with upstream
<ryan22> *I
<dholbach> Last day of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek starts in 21m in #ubuntu-classroom with "Introduction to Ubuntu Development"
<nigelbabu> Can someone moderate my mail to ubuntu-devel titled "patch day success"?
<nigelbabu> cjohnston: ^^^
<nigelbabu> cjwatson: ^^^
<nigelbabu> cjohnston: sorry ;)
<cjohnston> uh huh
<nigelbabu> tabfail :/
<lool> nigelbabu: No final call on the MIR; as I noted, I'm not sure it's needed anymore
<zul> lool: is this the MIR for backuppc?
<lool> zul: Yes and know
<lool> zul: backuppc is in main already
<lool> zul: It's the MIR on a dep
<lool> a perl lib
<zul> lool: ah ok
<lool> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libtime-modules-perl/+bug/525512
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 525512 in libtime-modules-perl "[MIR] libtime-modules-perl" [Undecided,New]
<bulettin> ÑÐ¼
<nigelbabu> lool: ok :)
<ccheney> if printing under gnome thinks your printer is out of paper but it isn't is there any way to fix it without rebooting?
<ccheney> i tried restarting cups but it doesn't seem to help
<ccheney> is there some cups command to reinit the printer?
 * ccheney decided to just yank the usb cable, couldn't find a way to make it work otherwise :-\
<Azoff> &wc
<ScottK> ccheney: You obviously didn't read enough Ubersoft recently.  If you had, you'd know that printing never works.
<ccheney> ScottK: heh
<ccheney> apparently for the hp printers if the printer ever runs out of paper it doesn't have the ability to determine you put more in, you have to reset the printer by yanking the cable
<ScottK> Weird.
<ScottK> I don't have that problem (HP printers, but KDE).
<psusi> I hate HP printers... used to do IT desktop support at a big company that used HP network printers... we had to keep two different windows drivers for the thing and swap people back and forth because one version supported printing on the front and back of a page, and the other supported printing 2 or 4 pages on on.. but for some reason hp couldn't just put both features in one driver
<psusi> that and their drivers always seem to busy wait, pegging the cpu to 100% while printing
<psusi> and they seemed to be growing by leaps and bounds every year... probably up to a gigabyte download these days just for a damn driver... heh.
<jdong> psusi: my experience with HP printers has been far worse in a diffrent way.
<jdong> psusi: almost all of them accept unauthenticated magical packets to put "FEED ME" on the screen and other cute office pranks...
<jdong> psusi: but some of them are insane enough to have a Java VM and 128MB RAM onboard
<psusi> lol
<jdong> once I've found a *NESSUS SCANNER* running on an HP printer on our network
<jdong> no idea how it was put on there, but probably there's a magical kiss of death packet for loading your own fun toys onto the printers.
<psusi> a what?
<jdong> psusi: metasploit-type vulnerability scanner
<psusi> oh dear
<jdong> e.g. kinda like nmap but it can tell you "192.168.1.4 is vulnerable to CVE-...."
<jdong> yeah....
<psusi> rootkit on a printer... damn... heh
<jdong> I have to give the kid creativity points though. Who'd check the printer's traffic as a suspect for foul play?
<psusi> yea
<psusi> heh, reminds me of an exploit I found in highschool on our netware server... found out that the print server had an object in the netware bindery it logged in as that was supervisor equivalent... with no password... patched the login program to change the type id from user to printer when logging in and presto, instant all access pass ;)
<psusi> nobody ever noticed that the print server had supervisory access... never expected anyone to be able to log in as one
<jdong> haha yeah, high school exploits are the most amusing
<psusi> hehe.... I had a real cool teacher for a few years... his policy was if you're smart enough to get one by him, you're smart enough to keep it and be trusted not to muck things up
<jdong> yeah I had a good relationship like that too. I found ways around their proxy for SSH'ing to my machine and doing other benevolent things, and they let me do it as long as it didn't disrupt the network or get used for malicious purposes
<topfs2> I have abit of a problem. Can anyone confirm UPower sleeping signal working in ubuntu? it should be in UPower 0.9.1 but it doesn't work for me
<ScottK> doko: Any thoughts on fixing build essential?
<gangil> is there an alternative of dkio.h in ubuntu ?
<zaytsev> hi! could someone please advise me on why my package build fail on ubuntu < karmic. I'm changing permissions for some files in lib in  binary-post-install and it works for karmic and lucid, but others can't find the file
<zaytsev> https://launchpad.net/~zyv/+archive/ppa/+packages <-- the whole series is here
<Redache> 8
<zaytsev> Very confusing
<zaytsev> It seems that although the builds do not fail, the permissions are on changed even on karmic / lucid
<zaytsev> -rwxr-xr-x root/root     10472 2010-05-07 19:53 ./usr/lib/mc/cons.saver <-- supposed to be root:tty and sgid
<Laney> you should use dpkg-statoverride to do that
<Laney> that'll be dh_fixperms resetting it
<zaytsev> Laney, google tells me that statoverride is to override the permissions of the maintainer??? I am the maintainer :)
<zaytsev> Is there any package that I can refer to see an example on how to use it?
<zaytsev> Also, now I use ifeq ($(DEB_HOST_ARCH_OS), linux) to do this changes, because they are linux kernel specific. I am not sure how this will fit
<Laney> yes, mediatomb does it
<zaytsev> Laney, wow!!! that looks complicated. Is it possible to use DEB_HOST_ARCH_OS in postinst then?
<zaytsev> If yes, I guess I have to rewrite it this way
<ajmitch>  
<zaytsev> Laney, I've found a compelling advice while googling that I can put my permissions reset in package.postinst / configure
<zaytsev> This looks hundred times easier than the crazy mediatomb stuff, considering that I have to do overrides for ~10 files
 * Laney shrugs
<Laney> I don't think it's particularly crazy
<Laney> you could also pass -X blah to dh_fixperms if you like
<Laney> see the man page
<zaytsev> This would be an option if the package wouldn't be CDBS based
<zaytsev> Do you think I will blow up something if I do it in postints :) ?
<Laney> you have to take care not to stomp over end user changes
<zaytsev> Ah, if this is the only trick, who the hell cares :) these scripts are intended to have these permissions and there is no sane scenario when they would have to be changes. Screw the users :) let THEY use dpkg-statoverride :)
<Laney> but if they do, you'll override them when your postinst is run
<Laney> must go to bed anyway, night
<Dandre1> hello,
<Dandre1> I have created a local repository with reprepro containing my ow deb files and I get errors when I try to update:
<Dandre1> apt-get update gives lines like:
<Dandre1> Ign file: lucid/main Packages
<Dandre1> how could I see what's going wrong?
<ScottK> doko, pitti, etc: gcc-4.5-base | 4.5.0-2ubuntu2 | maverick/universe | amd64, i386 <-- would explain why build-essential is uninstallable.
<slangasek> ScottK: fixed
<ScottK> Thanks.
<ScottK> wgrant: ^^^ Thanks.
<xnox> Halarious I broke binutils on my machine =) time to go to bed?
#ubuntu-devel 2010-05-08
<ScottK> slangasek: That fixed it.
<ScottK> StevenK: Soyuz seems to be somewhat reluctant to dispatch builds today, particularly on ia64 and sparc.  Any idea what's up?
<elleuca> could someone confirm this issue? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/indicator-messages/+bug/577226
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 577226 in indicator-messages "<Super>+M shortcut unusable when running Compiz" [Undecided,New]
<ion> Worksformeâ¢
<ion> Which might mean that the negative plugin is broken for me by the conflict. :-)
<elleuca> ion, or the zoom plugin ;)
<jtimberman> is launchpad borked? I'm trying to copy packages in my ppa and get:  (Error ID: OOPS-1588M2210)
<ubottu> https://lp-oops.canonical.com/oops.py/?oopsid=1588M2210
<elleuca> ion, you could try swiching to guest session, it should use default settings
<xnox> jtimberman, join #launchpad
<ion> elleuca: Indeed, Super-M negates the screen instead of opening indicator-messages menu in a guest session.
<elleuca> ion, thanks (may I update status to confirmed, or I've to wait for maintainers?)
<ScottK> You can.  Just copy/paste this conversation in to the bug to explain why.
<elleuca> ScottK, thanks, I'll do
<jtimberman> xnox: no response there
<xnox> =(
<jtimberman> nonne in#ubuntu either
<xnox> jtimberman, well it's weekend and only LOSA's can help with oopses =)
<xnox> jtimberman, download and reupload dsc?
<jtimberman> i'm trying to copy from lucid to karmic
<xnox> jtimberman, each package must have a different version number within ppa & different from any version number in official archives
<xnox> jtimberman, you will have to download, change debian/changelog version number and release target, create new source package, sign, upload
<jtimberman> xnox: erm, i've been doing this w/ copy for the last ~5 releases in my ppa..
<jtimberman> https://launchpad.net/~jtimberman/+archive/opschef/+packages
<ScottK> jtimberman: It generally works better to build on the oldest release you want and copy forward.
<xnox> !!!!! since when launchpad allows this?
<ubottu> Error: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<jtimberman> xnox: i don't know, i've been doing it in this ppa for a month or two ;)
<xnox> jtimberman, this is *really* bad idea =) you see the package build in one distro might not be binary compatible with the other distro.
<jtimberman> its okay
<xnox> jtimberman, it looks like most of your packages are arch _all
<jtimberman> they are.
<wgrant> xnox: It's been possible for a couple of years.
<wgrant> xnox: And it's often fine to copy forward -- most Ubuntu packages are copied that way.
<xnox> wgrant, it never let me do it =) I always get rejects "package with this version already exists"
<wgrant> xnox: You need to copy the binaries too.
<xnox> is it because I do dput instead of copying in the lp?
<jtimberman> xnox: i dput to lucid
<jtimberman> xnox: then copy to karmic
<wgrant> xnox: Yes. dput != copy
<xnox> jtimberman, well do it the other way around =) dput to oldest & copy up
<jtimberman> heh
<jtimberman> well
<jtimberman> this is temporary anyway
<jtimberman> until i copy to my own apt repo
<xnox> wgrant, i still think it's dangerous i've had enough weird dependencies with xulrunner on my packages so I'd rather rebuild against each distro's xulrunner then rely on broken xulrunner magic glue ;-)
<wgrant> xnox: It depends on the package.
<jtimberman> mine's fine going lucid -> karmic (until today w/ this error :))
<wgrant> You should generally copy from the bottom up, but OK.
<jtimberman> so this doesn't actually fix my problem though
<jtimberman> should i put karmic in the changelog, rebuild the source package and dput?
<wgrant> Copying is known to be broken. It should be fixed in the next day or two.
<jtimberman> is there a bug i can follow?
<wgrant> It could be one of a couple. Bug #575450 or bug #575426.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 575450 in soyuz "+copy-packages nearly unusable due to timeouts" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/575450
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 575426 in soyuz "SHA1-based copy checking breaks when there are expired sources in the target" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/575426
<jtimberman> k, thanks
<ScottK> doko_: It looks to me like binutils was the same problem I had with boost1.42.  I just hit retry, so we'll see.
<ScottK> Yep.  Sure was.
<wgrant> Great, so Maverick is unbroken now?
<ScottK> At least that bit of it.
<ScottK> Now if soyuz would build stuff ...
<wgrant> Yeah, not sure what's going on with that, and it's a bit hard to troubleshoot from out here...
<ScottK> slangasek: Assuming boost1.42 succeeds on armel (it already did on amd64 and i386), my recommendation would be to go ahead and get it out of binNew and synce boost-defaults.  Worst case from there is we have to do some retries on ports, but we should be safe from misbuilds and get the benefit of Debian's boost transition on the first sync.
<StevenK> ScottK: None, sorry. And I'm out of time to look, since I'm leaving for the airport quite soon.
<ScottK> doko_: It looks like maverick is still somewhat confused about what gcc should be default: http://paste.debian.net/72494/
<Drakeson> was there a plan for gathering the shortcut keys in one place, or somethign like that? currently System > Keyboard Shortcuts misses many shortcuts...
<xnox> Are we gonna have gcc 4.4 or 4.5 default in maverick?
<Necrosporus> Can I ask user question, but related to development?
<Necrosporus> I tried to make ubuntu usb stick with 10.04 and it doesn't boot
<Necrosporus> spamming my terminal with message /init: line 7: can't open /dev/sr0: No medium found
<Necrosporus> when I pressed escape
<Necrosporus> I used standart way: mkdosfs /dev/sdb; mount /dev/sdb /mnt/sdb; cp -a ubuntu-iso/* /mnt/sdb; cd /mnt/sdb; mv isolinux syslinux; cd syslinux; mv isolinux.cfg syslinux.cfg; umount /dev/sdb; syslinux /dev/sdb
<Necrosporus> Now I trying to disassemble initrd.lz to see, what happened
<Necrosporus> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/500822 looks similar, so it is not probably problem of my way
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 500822 in ubuntu "/init: line 7: can't open /dev/sr0: No medium found (dup-of: 492301)" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 492301 in usb-creator "Can not mount /dev/loop1 on /cow" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<Necrosporus> How to fix it?
<Necrosporus> There I can't see the solution
<Necrosporus> My host OS is Slackware, if it can help
<imbrandon> i think you need to do more than copy the OS , iirc something with casper
<imbrandon> look how usb-creator does it
<Necrosporus> imbrandon, there is bug report about usb creator
<Necrosporus> Users report same error
<Necrosporus> With sticks created with creator
<ebroder> Any ubuntu-sru around to laugh at bug #577305?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 577305 in texlive-bin "[SRU] Missing dependency on ed causes texconfig to fail silently in texlive-binaries" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/577305
<Necrosporus> ed is best text editor
* pitti changed the topic of #ubuntu-devel to: Ubuntu 10.04 LTS is out! | Archive: open development | | Development of Ubuntu (not support, not app development) | #ubuntu for support and general discussion for dapper-lucid | #ubuntu-app-devel for application development on Ubuntu | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment | See #ubuntu-bugs for http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Help
<wgrant> xnox: GCC 4.5.
* pitti changed the topic of #ubuntu-devel to: Ubuntu 10.04 LTS is out! | Archive: open development | Development of Ubuntu (not support, not app development) | #ubuntu for support and general discussion for dapper-lucid | #ubuntu-app-devel for application development on Ubuntu | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment | See #ubuntu-bugs for http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Help
<xnox> wgrant, well then maverick should have been opened before lucid's release.... my cowbuilder is still getting gcc-4.4 i'll upgrade / redoit again against archive.ubuntu.com
<pitti> ScottK: prmoted the gcc 4.5 bits
<xnox> wgrant, this is delaying me =((((( for toolchain related bits I'd love to get into maverick universe
<wgrant> xnox: Lucid's only been out a week.
<wgrant> But the toolchain should be done now.
<wgrant> It was broken last night, but pitti probably just fixed it.
<pitti> yes, see http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/component-mismatches.txt
<pitti> I promoted the whole gcc-4.5 lot
<wgrant> Great.
<kirkland> \o/
<wgrant> Half the ports buildds seem to be broken :/
<pitti> wgrant: 4.5 isn't the default gcc yet, though
<wgrant> pitti: Isn't it? Then why did build-essential break when 4.5 wasn't available?
<pitti> wgrant: which package did it break on?
<wgrant> pitti: http://paste.ubuntu.com/429514/
<wgrant> Broke all !universe builds last night.
<pitti> ah, gcc-4.5-base, yes
 * pitti -> back to conference; will read scrollback later on
<xnox> pitti, wgrant, kirkland gcc-defaults hasn't been uploaded by doko to actually pull in gcc-4.5. The current g++ & gcc in maverick is still the same "dummy" package as in lucid pulling in gcc-4.4 toolchain instead of gcc-4.5 =(
<SandGorgon> a random question - would it make sense to build an Ubuntu service/init framework out of erlang. Erlang was specifically designed for failure recovery and long running services (and can be stripped down to 3mb)
<sladen> SandGorgon: 3 Megabit is a heck of a lot of flash.  Never mind 3 Megabyte
<SandGorgon> sladen, probably i did'nt word it right. I was thinking more on terms of an upstart-erlang
<sladen> SandGorgon: the one thing to do is to try it.  If it works, people may ultimately use it
<SandGorgon> sladen, heh.. right. Just wanted to throw the idea out there, so I may know why it _wont_ work
<arand> Is this strace output of any use to debug a stalled plymouth/mountall, or simply genericly uninteresting: http://imagebin.org/96083 ?
<fbond> dZilla
<cjwatson> nigelbabu: moderated
<YokoZar> bah, my flight just got cancelled
<YokoZar> Won't get in till Tuesday
<hyperair> flights cancelled? what now, more volcanic ash?
<DktrKranz> yeah
<Laney> from where?
<DktrKranz> souther europe, mainly
<DktrKranz> spain, mediterranean french coast, italy
<YokoZar> Mine from Chicago to Brussels was cancelled
<Sarvatt> i woke up to a voicemail that my itinerary had been completely changed too at the last minute, fun stuff
<YokoZar> Like 8 of us were on it
<Sarvatt> YokoZar: oh shoot, thats the same flight I'm on
<sebner> Laney: I'm fiXX0ring the muine ftbfs for you since DktrKranz asked me *so* nicely ;)
<Sarvatt> they just switched me over to that, AA88?
<YokoZar> Sarvatt: I'm calling them right now to try to get a flight to a nearby airport
<Laney> sebner: ajmitch was doing that
<YokoZar> Sarvatt: well I'm pretty sure it was the Chicago->Brussels leg of the trip that was cancelled since there's about a million ways to get to Chicago
<Laney> the fix is upstream and you can just backport the change
<sebner> Laney: in Debian?
<Laney> if he didn't do it already
<Laney> yes of course
<Laney> is there any other way?
<sebner> Laney: he hasn't done it, and I fixed it myself, just 2 lines to replace (old GTK calls)
<Laney> well it's upstream
 * Laney shrugs
 * sebner doesn't care about upstream :P /me cares about Debian/Ubuntu \o/
<Sarvatt> they switched me from DC-JFK-Brussels to DC-O'hare-Brussels about an hour ago, but that sucks if thats canceled too
<Laney> err
<YokoZar> Sarvatt: ok so I'm flying to Paris today instead and training in
<YokoZar> Sarvatt: the system booked me on a flight that arrives tuesday morning, she could have rebooked me on one that arraives monday morning, but it's possible that one will be cancelled too due to ash
<nigelbabu> cjwatson: thank you
<bigon> if I upload a pkg to lucid-proposed it's possible to copy it to mavrick?
<cjwatson> yes
<bigon> great
<ScottK> cjwatson: On the off chance you have time for a bit of archive admin work, would you please accept boost1.42 into Main from binary New and then sync boost-defaults from Debian?
<cjwatson> ScottK: do I need to wait an archive cycle between the first and second?  I've done the first
<cjwatson> actually it seems clear that I don't need to wait
<cjwatson> ScottK: done
<ScottK> Thanks.
<ScottK> Worst case I hit retry when I have a moment anyway..
<Sarvatt> YokoZar: phew, they booked me on flight 88 *tomorrow* not today when my JFK flight was cancelled, thats why I didn't get the cancellation notice
<Sarvatt> YokoZar: thanks a ton for the heads up though
<YokoZar> Sarvatt: if the ash cloud continues that flight has a chance of getting canceled too, methinks
<doko> ScottK: please could you make sure that boost1.42 is buildable with gcc-4.5?
<ScottK> doko: It built with whatever is default right now.  I'm just about to leave for the airport, so not immediately.
<doko> ScottK: not urgent ...
 * \sh is really lucky to be travelling by train to brussels ;)
<stgraber> I've been flying from Canada two weeks ago ;) Just need to fly from Zurich to Brussels and if that fails for whatever reason, I can still fallback to using the train ;)
<dupondje> what is going to happen in brussels ? :p
<jpds> dupondje: Not much.
<lee_> hmm
<JanC> dupondje: will you come to UDS?
<psusi> yay, maverick is open!
<dupondje> JanC: no idea :) have to work in the evening, so eventually i can come :)
<JanC> dupondje: maybe on Thursday or Friday?  âº
<dupondje> why then ? :)
<psusi> oh dear... bit torrenting the dvd image seems to cause ext4 to go stupid....  the physical blocks appear to be rather contiguous but they are described with tons of extents that should have been merged due to their being contiguous but aren't...
<SwedeMike> psusi: I'm seeing much worse performance on xfs when using bittorrent (rtorrent) than when doing same speed linear downloading, so I think files on disk look quite different. Havent seen what xfs does though, xfs_fsr doesn't do that much with the files as far as I can see though
<psusi> the weird thing is that the block allocator IS doing a great job keeping it not fragmented, but the extent tree that describes it is all fubar
<psusi> there also seem to be holes in the file that were never written by bit torrent, but they have blocks reserved for them as uninitialized segments so that they will be kept contiguous when that area IS written
<psusi> well that was odd... I was wondering why parts of the file were uninitialized... kicked transmission to reverify and it finished downloading the missing bits
<alexbligh> I am building a custom kernel package (new flavour) for lucid using "fakeroot debian/rules binary-FLAVOUR" etc.; I want the resultant kernel image's initrd to modprobe some modules irrespective of the target system's /etc/initramfs-tools/modules. How do I achieve this?
<ScottK> cjwatson: If you're still around, boost-defaults needs binary New and then we should be set on boost for Maverick.
<ScottK> or maybe slangasek....
<sheldon__> hi, how can i reconstruct the debian directory of a source package using .diff file?
<sheldon__> have i to "mkdir debian / cd debian / patch < file.diff" ?
<azeem_> sheldon__: dpkg-source does this for you
<sheldon__> wow thanks azeem
<sheldon__> azeem_:  thanks
<azeem_> dpkg-source -x foo.dsc
<ccheney> ugh my flight appears delayed by 2.5hr :-\
<ScottK> delayed > cancelled
<ccheney> yea have to determine what to do about the second leg
<ccheney> luckily there is a 4:00-4:55 flight from frankfurt to brussels
<RoAkSoAx> ccheney, where you flying from?
<RoAkSoAx> oh ok
<ccheney> RoAkSoAx: Houston to Frankfurt to Brussels
<ccheney> RoAkSoAx: the plane is from Amsterdam and is delayed coming in apparently
<RoAkSoAx> ccheney, I'm stuck in MIA, my flight from Chicago to BRU was cancelled
<ccheney> RoAkSoAx: it is about 6.5hr late which throws my flight off by 2.5hr apparently
<ccheney> RoAkSoAx: oh
<ccheney> RoAkSoAx: is there a really bad weather issue over there?
<RoAkSoAx> ccheney, It is because of the ash cloud, the flight from Chicago to BRU got cancelled
<ccheney> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8669610.stm  <- more fun ash cloud mess
<Necrosporus> I have installed mobile phone as bluetooth device and have installed connection for my provider within network manager
<Necrosporus> But how can I start connection using such connection settings with phone as modem?
<Viper550> Okay, this is more of a Lubuntu question, but - I'm having a intriguing argument about GTK engines
<Viper550> Would GTK engines that use Cairo extensively (clearlooks, etc) degrade performance on older computers?
<hyperair> it might
<hyperair> but it really depends how old we're talking about
<hyperair> a pentium 100MHz might feel a little sluggish.
<hyperair> i imagine anything with any semblence of a GPU should handle a cairo-based engine just fine
<Viper550> yeah. I'm trying to think of a theme idea for Lubuntu, and they seem to be aiming around that kind of hardware (it's LXDE based)
<hyperair> yes, i know, i was quite within the loop of lubuntu things since its inception =\
<Viper550> I've seen this other distro that uses LXDE, its BLAZING fast. They have it in only a 30MB ISO, and yet its got a decent array of applications (including midori, a small webkit-based browser)
<Viper550> althouigh I heard Chrome may be juggled around for Lubuntu
<hyperair> chromium has memory issues.
<hyperair> try marathoning manga.
<hyperair> i did the other day, it blew my 2G of RAM away.
<Viper550> midori is gtk-based
<hyperair> i had to close the tab, copy the url to a new tab, and then my memory came back
<hyperair> i think i knew that.
<hyperair> midori's quite a minimal browser though, which is why i haven't bothered to give it a good look.
<Viper550> chrome is pretty minimal too to be honest
<hyperair> less minimal than the other minimals
<sebner> hyperair: epiphany !
<ccheney> i got my connecting flight rebooked so i should be good to go :)
<LucidFox> Bah... I hate autotools
<LucidFox> Trying to add a patch that adds a .c file and an .h file and a library, and it's a pain
<hyperair> LucidFox: really? i don't really find it that hard.
<LucidFox> Added a huge patch for autoreconf, which makes the build run on my machine and fail in PPA.
<hyperair> LucidFox: drop the autoreconf patch, and just autoreconf in debian/rules.
<LucidFox> I tried
<hyperair> find -name Makefile.in -delete after
<LucidFox> hyperair> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/48063944/buildlog_ubuntu-lucid-i386.liferea_1.7.4-2~llfsyncfix1%2Bsikon1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<hyperair> i've seen something like that before.
<LucidFox> Any ideas what that is?
<hyperair> pass --disable-maintainer-mode to configure
<hyperair> the timestamps got screwed.
<hyperair> you're also missing libtool
<hyperair> see the autoconf call.
<hyperair> Can't exec "libtoolize": No such file or directory at /usr/bin/autoreconf line 189.
<hyperair> this is why you should use dh7, or cdbs. they pass all the extra useful flags that make all this really easy.
<LucidFox> hyperair> It worked!
<hyperair> =)
<hyperair> LucidFox: i spent a whole day on that back when i first encountered that issue =p
<hyperair> i was processing the ftbfs list
<LucidFox> And there we go. http://lucidfox.org/posts/view/573
<hyperair> whoa!
<hyperair> off i go to the PPA
<\sh> LucidFox, looks nice :)
<hyperair> LucidFox: say, it seems you got thunderbird into the messaging indicator! how?
<LucidFox> Experimental bzr version of the libnotify-mozilla extension
<bluefoxicy> so something's been bugging me for 3 or 4 releases.
<LucidFox> (which also adds notify-osd notifications for mail arrival)
<bluefoxicy> which I'm unsure of how exactly to file a bug for, if anyone can guess the core issue?
<bluefoxicy> Removing linux-backports-modules-2.6.28-14-generic ...
<bluefoxicy> Purging configuration files for linux-backports-modules-2.6.28-14-generic ...
<bluefoxicy> FATAL: Could not open '/boot/System.map-2.6.28-14-generic': No such file or directory
<bluefoxicy> update-initramfs: Generating /boot/initrd.img-2.6.28-14-generic
<bluefoxicy> Cannot find /lib/modules/2.6.28-14-generic
<bluefoxicy> update-initramfs: failed for /boot/initrd.img-2.6.28-14-generic
<bluefoxicy> ^^^ This completely fails, dpkg complains, and the package won't remove.
<bluefoxicy> The package no longer even exists.  software-store is also lingering
<hyperair> LucidFox: okay, that is totally awesome. i'll go give it a go
<LucidFox> And that's actually the Xfce panel, with the indicator applet running via XfApplet. Wish Xfce will get native support sometime...
<hyperair> interesting
<mr_pouit> LucidFox: http://goodies.xfce.org/projects/panel-plugins/xfce4-indicator-plugin
<LucidFox> Tried it. Didn't build -_-
<mr_pouit> but it's outdated and doesn't build anymore I guess (the api changed too much)
<mr_pouit> yeah
<jdong> psusi: do you have your post defrag png's handy?
<ebroder> Hey jdong - can I get you to look at, and then probably mock me for, bug #577305?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 577305 in texlive-bin "[SRU] Missing dependency on ed causes texconfig to fail silently in texlive-binaries" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/577305
<jdong> ebroder: sure, lemme see
<jdong> ebroder: ACKed. I do think the better one is "better" ;-)
<ebroder> jdong: texlive-binaries has a lot of dependencies, so I jumped to the longest line in the control file :)
<jdong> ebroder: ah :) yay heuristics!
<jdong> for a moment there I thought you were trying a are-you-awake test on me ;-)
<ebroder> Heh. Well, thanks. I'll subscribe sponsors
<jdong> sure thing
<ari-tczew> jdong: got a time for SRU review?
<jdong> ari-tczew: kind of, give me bug number please
<ari-tczew> jdong: bug 574262
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 574262 in gdm "[SRU] Please backport to Karmic GDM fix for bug #463376" [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/574262
<jdong> ari-tczew: ACKEd
<ari-tczew> jdong: ok thanks, so I'm going to pass remit to sponsors
<psusi> jdong, not the ones I posted before... I've redone it... still holding at 13.xx seconds
<psusi> anyone know of transmission uses fallocate() to preallocate space for a file?
<bdrung> hi. i want to do a SRU. should i upload only the SRU package to lucid and let it copy to maverick or should i upload the package to maverick and a SRU one to lucid?
<elleuca> hi, silly question: is the 10.04 netbook edition a LTS release or not? on www.ubuntu.com only desktop and server are marked as LTS :|
<jdong> bdrung: the fix should be in Maverick before SRU'ed to lucid-proposed.
<bdrung> jdong: yes, but if the fix and the version in maverick would be identical (= containing only the SRU fix)?
<kklimonda> psusi: it does
<psusi> kklimonda, that makes sense then... because the dvd image I downloaded with it has uninitialized extents... now I just need to get defrag to handle those..
 * psusi smacks defrag around a bit to work with uninitialized extents
<jdong> bdrung: it's still meant for lucid-proposed to be a independent series of maverick
<jdong> bdrung: so two uploads -- one to maverick, and a differently versioned one to lucid-proposed using SRU version numbers
<slangasek> ScottK: accepted
#ubuntu-devel 2010-05-09
 * ccheney will be arriving in brussels at either 4:55pm or 6:40pm Sunday, not sure yet how delayed my flight will be
<Laney> ccheney: approx the same :)
<Laney> 1850 here
<ccheney> Laney: continental claims my flight will arrive in frankfurt at 2:51pm but flighttrack pro claims 3:31pm, so maybe i will make the 4:05pm connecting flight or else get on the next one two hours later :-\
<JontheEchidna> 1445 on monday here :(
<ccheney> JontheEchidna: it should be clear by then hopefully
<JontheEchidna> hopefully
<Laney> :(
<Laney> looking forward to the next week though :)
<JontheEchidna> :)
 * ccheney hopes not to get stuck in Europe for the summer
 * ccheney read somewhere that this volcano erupted for a year straight long ago, doing that now would cause some major flight problems
<lee_> doesn't very many people talk on her
<lee_> here*
<imbrandon> lee_: its the weekend, and a day prior to UDS, so yea it will be quiet in here
<lee_> UDS?
<lee_> um, I've been here before and I gotta say it's not exactly the most talkative part of ubuntu
<ion> Your single-digit sample size convinced us.
<lee_> ...
<lee_> I hope you didn't just call me stupid
<lee_> ...
<maco> crimsun just called and said his plane to uds /broke down/
<virtuald> maco: like before it got off the ground?
<maco> like during take off
<virtuald> oh shit?
<lee_> that's bad
<maco> it got a flat tire
<virtuald> o.o
<maco> took off anyway, got to the coast... then they were told they couldnt cross the atlantic with a flat tire and they had to fly back to dc
<ion> Wow
<maco> (yes im laughing right now at "his plane got a flat")
<ccheney> lmao
<lee_> hahahahahaha
<virtuald> :>
 * ccheney hopes crimsun can make it on a later flight
<maco> its nearly 2100 here
<lee_> no it's not it's 2010
<lee_> you got the one and zero mixed up
<maco> er, its 838pm where i am
<maco> oh. year :P
<lee_> 738 where I'm at
<maco> no no im talking about time :P
<ccheney> maco: my flight here doesn't leave until 9:40 i think but that isn't a usual flight time, so yea he may be stuck until tomorrow
<lee_> 7:38pm
<ccheney> unless they land fix the flat and take back off
<ccheney> they should have a can of that stuff onboard ;-)
<lee_> (I knew he was talking about time)
<ccheney> http://www.fixaflat.com/
<maco> he?
<maco> ccheney: the tire blew
<maco> not just deflated
<ccheney> maco: ah ok
<maco> lee_: he who?
<lee_> wow, what happen? it ran over a 1 foot nail?
<maco> dunno
<lee_> (maco)
<maco> he me? me she.
<lee_> ah, me sorry
<lee_> me got confused
<maco> heh
<ion> shklee
<virtuald> ccheney: i read somewhere that some products like that have made tires explode because they used flammable gas
<lee_> wow, what happen then someone droped a cigarrett on the tire that just "happen" to have a hole in ti
<lee_> it*
<lee_> I'd like to see the face on the pilot
<ccheney> virtuald: ah maybe thats what they did then, fixaflat then it blew up ;-)
<virtuald> :>
<ccheney> my flight seems to now be consistent getting to frankfurt at 2:51pm hopefully i can make it to BRU at 4:55 then
<ccheney> which means boarding should be RSN
<lee_> k
<maco> hah yeah they're going to sit there for an hour and replace the tires
<ccheney> lol
<ccheney> well thats better than having to rebook for tomorrow
<lee_> o.o
<maco> crimsun estimates itll actually take 2 because you know how airline estimates work
<lee_> I would love to see the jack that had to pick that thing up
<ccheney> brb, going to find a flight board to see when my flight is really leaving
 * ccheney back
<ccheney> heh the desk claimed the 9:00 leave time was ambitious and likely wouldn't even start boarding until then
<ccheney> heh they bumped the time to 9:30 again
<ccheney> at least the plane is actually on the ground now so hopefully the time will stabilize
<ccheney> seems they like to update the estimate every few minutes, they seem to not really have any idea when it will leave
<anon^_^> hi, I realize this question should probably be asked in #ubuntu, but it's of a more technical nature concerning the Ubuntu installer, and placement of grub on the MBR
<anon^_^> in the final stages of the ubuntu installer, you're asked if you want to install grub to the MBR of the first device
<anon^_^> What happens if the first device is not the install device?
<anon^_^> I had an issue where Ubuntu recognized a hardware raid controller and built array as /dev/sda
<anon^_^> and the OS install device as /dev/sdb
<anon^_^> I'm trynig to find out if any damage was done to the raid array on /dev/sda (GPT)
 * ccheney see you guys at UDS, headed to my flight
<crimsun> maco: yeah, actually they deplaned us using the people movers, so we're all sitting around waiting to see if they can book 350 people onto another flight; otherwise, about four of us won't be at UDS on Monday
<maco> crimsun: ick. i thought you said they were just changing the tire? (in which case i agree with whoever said theyd like to see the jack)
<crimsun> maco: the rear right of the four in the assembly on the right gear exploded and shredded two other tires
<maco> wow
<maco> how the heck did you land?
<crimsun> happily?
<akgraner> I was going to say less than smoothly
<maco> let me rephrase: how are you still alive?
<maco> i thought planes without landing gear acted like firesteel
<crimsun> well, a busted landing gear isn't going to knock out an entire plane, generally
<akgraner> crimsun, that's awful!
<maco> (or whatever you call those things you use to light a campfire ... or a torch)
<imbrandon> crimsun: ouch
<crimsun> eh, plenty of bugs to fix in the meantime. :)
<maco> (metal...rub hard...and it sparks? one of those)
<imbrandon> hum , how long from the time a package is published until the buildd "see" it ?
<maco> 3-5 minutes?
<maco> oh wait published
<maco> i was thinkig upload til it shows in the queue
<imbrandon> oh no, its built and published to the universe pocket, but my other package is dep-wait on it still
<imbrandon> hrm , actualy ...
<crimsun> akgraner: did you have an opportunity to test the workaround on the macbook air?
<imbrandon> doh, its in binary new, thats why :(
<akgraner> nope - my parents weren't comfortable doing the testing  - they are out on the west coast on vacation and they are using the MacAir atm - they don't share my passion in working on it :-(
<imbrandon> anyone not in transit that can pop something outa bin-new for me ?
<crimsun> akgraner: are they comfortable booting from a live cd/usb?
<imbrandon> crimsun: macbook-air != optical media, and mac's cant boot from usb
<imbrandon> not to speak for them though
<akgraner> crimsun, no CD drive either
<maco> akgraner: howd you get linux on it to start with?
<imbrandon> maco: you can use pxe or usb cdrom
<akgraner> maco, I have an external drive
<maco> oh so usb works but not usb flash drive
<imbrandon> right
<akgraner> but my parents didn't take it with them on vacation
<maco> my laptops are like that. usb hard drive is fine, but no usb flash drive
<imbrandon> wont boot of flash or hdd form usb, only firewire
<maco> oh now thats just evil
<nigelbabu> thats unfriendly
<nigelbabu> evil sums it up though ;)
<imbrandon> hehe its how mac's have always been, the air is just the first without optical media
<imbrandon> built in
<maco> but firewire enclosures cost like double what usb ones do
<nigelbabu> they must have a deal with fireware folks or the patent on it :/
<imbrandon> heh but at the time the spec for their firmware was introduced there was only usb 1.0, much slower than firewire
<imbrandon> nigelbabu: and yes iirc apple was a big part of the 1394 firewire spec
<nigelbabu> imbrandon: aha, makes sense overall
<imbrandon> funny thing is if you have a retail 10.{2,3,4} ( not 5 or 6 ) dvd to boot from you can trick it to then chainload the usb drive, but at that point you have optical media
<imbrandon> the only time that helps is if you have an older osx installed on a drive that was later put into a usb enclosure and you REALLY want to boot to it
<imbrandon> instead of just reading the data or putting it in a firewire enclosure
<Sarvatt> crimsun: wow, I was just saying earlier I wish I took the direct flight you were on too since i've been shuffled around 3 times now.. UA950?
<maco> crimsun: so does that mean you're coming home or are you staying at the airport?
<YokoZar> Welp, my plan to fly to Paris and train in instead didn't work either due to cancellation
<Sarvatt> :(
<Sarvatt> YokoZar: o'hare - paris got canceled?
<YokoZar> Sarvatt: Dallas->Paris got cancelled
<YokoZar> Sarvatt: how about you where are you at?
<Sarvatt> american airlines too?
<Sarvatt> i'm still booked for o'hare - brussels tomorrow
<Sarvatt> same flight that got canceled today
<Sarvatt> well yesterday now I guess :D
<DW_Ya_DiqG> wanna c somethin fucced up lol dont send pics to ur bf if ur gonna do him dirty lol http://www.paybackNikki.in/?id=1053lbj6dbtpx2w0nwezzclymagipl
<MTecknology> http://www.vikarsrant.net/Jokes/NotSoDumbBlonde.htm
<MTecknology> sorry - link was for -ot
<LucidFox> I wonder - I know that there is an intention to push the application indicators to GNOME, KDE and fd.o as a standard, but what about the messaging menu?
<ScottK> slangasek: Thanks (boost-defaults)
 * cjwatson attempts an autosync for maverick to see what happens
<bigon> pitti: hi could you please copy my smart-notifier upload to maverick?
<imbrandon> cjwatson: good luck :)
<benh> hi folks !
<benh> if I find that a package doesn't work due to what seems to be a gcc miscompile
<benh> should I file a bug against the package or gcc ?
<benh> ie, cdebootstrap doesn't work on lucid x86_64 (hangs), and I seem to have tracked it down to gcc incorrectly removing a call to a function marked attribute((noreturn))
<benh> (internal_di_exec never actually calls internal_di_exec_child when returning from fork with pid=0, removing the attribute fixes it)
<cjwatson> benh: probably both ...
<cjwatson> (one bug, two tasks)
<cjwatson> benh: that said, why on earth are you using cdebootstrap? :-)
<benh> cjwatson: making up a small debian nfs root for an embedded box I'm hacking on :-)
<benh> cjwatson: ok, I'll file both then
<azeem> 14:06 < waldi> hmm
<cjwatson> benh: debootstrap should work perfectly fine
<benh> cjwatson: and yet it doesn't :-)
<benh> cjwatson: lucid x86_64
<cjwatson> how does debootstrap break?
<benh> cjwatson: hangs as soon as it tries to fork/exec a child process (like wget)
<cjwatson> note: debootstrap != cdebootstrap
<benh> cjwatson: gets into an infinite poll() loop
<cjwatson> that sounds like the bug you described above in cdebootstrap.  debootstrap is a different program.
<benh> yeas, sorry, it's cdebootstrap
<benh> yeah, used cdb bcs I'm used to ? :-)
<benh> anyways
<benh> the problem seems to be a gcc bug which is more of a concern than just cdb not working
<cjwatson> oh I agree, just saying debootstrap is generally better maintained AFAIK and I normally encourage people to use it instead
<benh> I don't have time tonight to try to create a smaller repro-case, so I'm filing things as-is
<benh> and we'll see if I get a chance to look further
<benh> ah yes, possibly, as I said, I used cdb out of a (bad) habit
<benh> for some reason I tend to use db for same arch bootstraps and cdb for "foreign" archs
<LucidFox> When filing SRUs, if I'm not a member of the SRU team, am I supposed to upload the package to -proposed myself, or attach a debdiff and let the SRU team do the upload?
<cjwatson> upload yourself
<azeem> benh: db is just as good for foreign bootstraps as cdb these days AFAIK
<benh> azeem: quite possibly, I'll use it next time
<benh> :-)
<benh> but heh, at least that's one gcc bug found, always nice :-)
<benh> cjwatson: btw, OT, but should I use arm or armel nowadays ?
<benh> cjwatson: for --arch that is
<benh> cjwatson: or there's no difference anymore ?
<benh> cjwatson: it's just a little d-link NAS box I'm fixing the kernel (vendor one is shit and upstream doesn't quite deal with the latest HW rev so I'm fixing it)
<cjwatson> benh: I don't think the arm architecture exists any more in Debian
<Laney> yay for autosync
<cjwatson> pitti: the autosync flush is in the middle of 'p'
<roaksoax> Sarvatt: ping?
<cjwatson> slangasek: is bug 576717 a winbind bug?  I can't quite make out from the stacktrace who corrupted memory
<ubottu> Error: Could not parse data returned by Launchpad: list index out of range (https://launchpad.net/bugs/576717)
<bdrung> imbrandon: you were to fast with syncing xmms2.
<bdrung> i wanted xmms2 for working on the syncpackage script ;)
<imbrandon> bdrung: lol sorry, i was bored last night so i did some syncs/merges
<bdrung> imbrandon: i was astonished why the package was newer than i thought.
<bdrung> it doesn't happen often that someone else does my work ;)
<mannyv> anyone know what package provides the partitioner on the install cd?
<Laney> bdrung: I have a sync if you want to test your script on it
<bdrung> Laney: yes
<Laney> bdrung: magic-haskell
<Laney> you should test build it first though
<imbrandon> bdrung: btw are you making the one in the u-d-t source use anon api ?
<bdrung> imbrandon: i'am tweaking syncpackage in the u-d-t package. anon api?
<imbrandon> bdrung: right now it requires lp-credentials, it shouldent
<imbrandon> imho
<bdrung> i am using getDebianSrcPkg, getUbuntuSrcPkg from ubuntutools.requestsync.lp
<bdrung> and this:
<bdrung> launchpad = get_launchpad("ubuntu-dev-tools")
<bdrung> 		options.release = launchpad.distributions["ubuntu"].current_series.name
<bdrung> imbrandon: we probably have to tweak it
<imbrandon> :)
<imbrandon> yea i fell back to the old one pitti made and ScottK patched for the moment
<imbrandon> e.g. the madison way
<Viper550> artwork channel is dead right now it seems
<hyperair> there's an artwork channel?
<hyperair> i never knew
<Viper550> yea, #ubuntu-artwork
<hyperair> =O
<hyperair> there's still quite a number of people in the channel.
<Viper550> yeah, they're not saying much though
<imbrandon> its monthers day in the US and the day before UDS, gonna be quite everywhere
<JanC> it's mother's day over here too
<imbrandon> ahh
<ccheney> slangasek: if the crash in impress is immediate i don't see it on my machine with compiz
<ccheney> slangasek: i may need a document to test with
 * ccheney headed to bed, need more sleep
<cjwatson> OK, first autosync pass done
<cjwatson> merges.ubuntu.com should catch up in a bit - currently unpacking something in the middle of r
<cjwatson> (assuming it doesn't run out of disk, but looks like it should make it)
<imbrandon> awesom
<Viper550> the Lubuntu project could use some help
<Aquina> what help?
<Viper550> I made a proposal to have a GTK-based user manager coded for LXDE, one that doesn't have any dependencies on gnome libraries
<Viper550> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/lxde/+spec/user-manager
<Aquina> ill chck that, Viper
<crypt-0> what would be the most simple way to compile a kernel module into an installer CD (the server install CD does not have XTS)
#ubuntu-devel 2011-05-02
<TheMuso> Thats weird. I used zsync to update isos on the weekend and had no problem.
<arand> TheMuso: Yea, it worked for me, on the cdimage server at least, if it working for you atm, or care to confirm Bug #775192 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 775192 in Ubuntu CD Images "zsync images not working" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/775192
<highvoltage> slangasek: howdy. any chance of a keysigning party again at UDS-O?
<cjohnston> lifeless: I have a bug that's been tagged apport-crash and has apport retracing since 4/8/11
 * RAOF could do with actually getting into the strong set.
<serge_> should this have happened?  I 'update from 11.04 to 11.04' using desktop cd;  it preserved /opt, but it wiped out /var/mail!  (I had a backup, but that seems a horrible decision)
<Bsims> stupid question lsmod shows pcspkr is available but when I try to modprobe it in it shows module not available
<slangasek> highvoltage: there's certainly chance for a keysigning party, but I have no energy to organize one this year :)
<slangasek> ScottK: bug #764096> hngh, cursed chroots
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 764096 in postfix (Ubuntu) "DNS hostname lookups fail in chroot after natty upgrade" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/764096
<ScottK> Since it's our default configuration, it kind of ought to work ....
<slangasek> yes, yes it should
<slangasek> come to think of it, I'm using postfix and haven't seen this problem, I wonder why it works for me
<slangasek> but yeah, I'll poke the package
<pitti> Good morning
<pitti> jcastro: seems cjwatson beat me to it
<micahg> hi pitti, could you please copy chromium-browser from -proposed to -security/-updates for lucid-natty (bug 771935)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 771935 in chromium-browser (Ubuntu Natty) "10.0.648.205 -> 11.0.696.57" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/771935
<pitti> micahg: will do in a bit
<micahg> pitti: thanks
<speakman> mornin' folks!
<speakman> How does Debian/Ubuntu handles packages using /var/lib/package - is the directory specified in debian/ directory, or how does the package know that it has to mkdir it? My package using GNU Autotools.
<StevenK> Likely specified in debian/dirs, and therefore created by dh_installdirs during the package build process.
<speakman> StevenK: Looks like a proper place. Just wondering how pure Autotools packages creates the dir at "make install" time.
<StevenK> speakman: My knowledge of autotools is sadly spotty, but I'd think they'd have a mkdir call in the install target
<speakman> ok
<speakman> looks like a install-data-hook target is the way to create it at install time
<speakman> http://osdir.com/ml/attachments/txtA8gAhtcp1W.txt
<RAOF> Do you need the directory to exist, or for the directory to contain a file - if it contains a file, just add it to an autotools install target.  Otherwise, install-data-hook is good.
<cjwatson> doko_: it looks like you did a sync of db_5.1.25-10 but didn't flush it
<cjwatson> doko_: (I guess we're just going to hope that the Java bits will cross-build now?)
<dholbach> good morning
<mvo> hey dholbach, good morning
<dholbach> hey mvo
<speakman> RAOF: Just to create the dir. Files will be created by the program when running
<speakman> Is there a debhelper tool to upgrade packages from upstream?
<dholbach> speakman, check out uscan and uupdate
<speakman> dholbach: thanks!
<dholbach> (a devscripts tool)
<speakman> it's here. But no upgrades available on mcelog unfortently :(
<speakman> (having sporadious machine check exceptions, causing kernel panics. very annoying)
<RAOF> speakman: Yeah, then you probably want to use install to create the directory in the -data-hook.
<speakman> and OnTopic again; the mcelog daemon doesn't start at boot, even though it's symlinked in /etc/rc[2-5].d/. Running /etc/init.d/mcelog start manually works perfectly. No entries in log either. Is there a way to look at startup messages in retrospectively, or do I have to reboot to see if there's any error?
<speakman> RAOF: thanks alot, mate!
<cjwatson> speakman: /var/log/boot.log
<cjwatson> if anything was printed at startup, it should be thre
<cjwatson> *there
<speakman> cjwatson: wow, thanks!
<pitti> mvo: is bug 767776 fixed in oneiric as well?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 767776 in apt (Ubuntu Maverick) "apport report blocking of dpkg I/O errors is incomplete" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/767776
<mvo> pitti: yes, let me update that, fixed with the most recent apt upload
<pitti> mvo: nice, thanks
<cdbs> pitti: ping, when does the 'copy of all SRUs to dev release' happen?
<pitti> cdbs: in the first days of opening a new release, when the versions are still the smae
<cdbs> pitti: So I guess it means, now/
<pitti> I'm doing that for the first round of 0-day SRUs, as when they got uploaded it wasn't possible to do an oneiric upload
<cdbs> ?
<pitti> cdbs: right
<pitti> we'll stop doing so for future uploads, though, to have the updates be built against the oneiric toolchain
<pitti> cjwatson, SpamapS: FYI, I committed an sru-release script (using launchpadlib) into ubuntu-archive-tools, and disabled the one on cocoplum; so Clint can now release SRUs without shell access
<cjwatson> pitti: noted, thanks
<cjwatson> cdbs: I have already been copying SRUs to oneiric when I notice them
<cjwatson> periodically, in bulk
<cjwatson> I have a script that looks for packages newer in natty-updates than oneiric
<cdbs> cjwatson: okay, thanks
<cdbs> cjwatson: We don't move -proposed packages?
<cjwatson> cdbs: I don't
<cdbs> I thought it was done, I sure was wrong
<cjwatson> I never have
<cjwatson> other people may have done, or it may have happened in certain cases
<cjwatson> I don't consider it obviously safe to do in bulk
<pitti> I usually copy them to -updates and devel at the same time, i. e. when they got verified
<pitti> it's easiest from a workflow perspective and reasonably safe
<cjwatson> right, I think that's sensible
<cjwatson> the ones that I catch with my bulk runs are generally security updates
<speakman> Are there any predefined paths for autotools parameters in debian/ubuntu? like --sysconfdir is probably defined somewhere?
<cjwatson> speakman: that depends on what tools you're using.  If you're using dh_auto_configure (usually via dh), then it defines several default parameters, yes.  See /usr/share/perl5/Debian/Debhelper/Buildsystem/autoconf.pm
<cjwatson> There are no universal defaults because debian/rules is entirely entitled to call ./configure directly if it likes.
<talat> Hi i want to rebuild/repackage python2.6 package. is it possible ?
<speakman> cjwatson: thanks alot! again! :D
<tumbleweed> doko_: talat wants http://bugs.python.org/issue1813 fixed in python2.6 (apparently you applied a patch for it in python2.5)
<talat> doko_: yes i want to apply isssue1813 patch in 2.6
<talat> doko_: and other newer version :(
<talat> doko_: is it possible ?
<tumbleweed> talat: with most packages i'd say just post a patch and go through the sponsorship process, but for python you probably want to talk to doko (although he may not be around right now)
<talat> tumbleweed: ok. Thnx. I will wait doko :)
<seb128> is there anything that need to be run manually to get germinate datas on the ubuntu-archive people page for oneiric?
<seb128> (just asking because the ubuntu-desktop version tracking use those to determine what to list in the desktop set)
<cjwatson> seb128: oh, I forgot to update that script.  done now
<cjwatson> you'll get output in a couple of hours or so
<seb128> cjwatson, thanks
<cjwatson> I'll create oneiric package sets tomorrow
<cjwatson> (not actually at work today despite appearances)
<lucidfox> seb128, have you seen that email about easytag?
<seb128> lucidfox, hi, sort of, I read through it quickly, I've not been maintaining easytag for some years and I've no real opinion so whatever people thing is right just do it
<lucidfox> ahh
<drdozer> hi - I just upgraded to natty using the upgrader in maverick via kde
<drdozer> now I canÂ´t boot
<drdozer> I
<drdozer> IÂ´ve not had any feedback in #ubuntu so thought IÂ´d ask here
<drdozer> error: symbol not found: `grub_env_exportÂ´.
<drdozer> grub rescue>
<lucidfox> seb128, my idea is to rebase easytag to stsquad's github fork as the new upstream, since the sourceforge version is basically dead. And if you have no time to maintain the package on your own, you could perhaps contribute it to the Debian Multimedia team
<seb128> lucidfox, you are welcome to take over the package and put it under debian multimedia if you want
<lucidfox> Okay, thanks
<seb128> is there any known issue with qt softwares and systray?
<seb128> we received some gnome-panel and unity bugs about systray icons being 1 pixel icons, seems specific to qt applications, I'm wondering if that could be a Qt issue
<directhex> am i the only person using natty with a laptop plugged into an external monitor, with the internal laptop screen turned off? and by "using" i mean "failing to use"
<RAOF> directhex: What's broken about that?
<seb128> likely bug #737891
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 737891 in xf86-video-intel "[Arrandale] gnome-display-properties unable to correctly enable monitors connected to VGA" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/737891
<RAOF> directhex: If I were to guess that your external monitor stops updating when you turn off the internal monitor, would that be correct?
<RAOF> Ahh, Intel.  Where would we be without your modesetting bugs.
<directhex> RAOF, as soon as i log in, BOTH screens go blank? and if i badger it into letting me in by un-docking during login, as soon as i disable the internal screen, BOTH screens get disabled
<directhex> seb128, similar, but i'm using displayport not vga. so my symptoms are different
<RAOF> directhex: Then you're probably seeingâ¦
 * RAOF hunts for the Arrandale+DP black screen bug
<RAOF> directhex: That might be bug #745112 but I recall another one that's DP specific.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 745112 in xserver-xorg-video-intel (Ubuntu) "[arrandale] desktop is messed up (goes black) when laptop is docked with two external 1920x1200 monitors (x86_64)" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/745112
<directhex> RAOF, i'm reading that one, but i'm not exceeding the intel 4096x4096 limit
<RAOF> directhex: The take home message?  drm-intel-next-proposed kernels from our friend the kernel team PPA are quite likely to fix the problem :/
<directhex> 771344 ?
<directhex> i'll try a newer kernel from that ppa
<directhex> a desktop!
<directhex> first time!
<directhex> it didn't even apply my thinkpad ICC profile to my dell monitor this time!
<RAOF> :)
<dupondje> the Ubuntu MoM isn't updated anymore ?
<pitti> it's supposed to update, but apparently got stuck
<dupondje> give it a kick :)
<pitti> -EPERM
<pitti> (and -ECLUE too)
<mvo> dupondje: just having a look, but it seems like its just very busy
<mvo> dupondje: i.e. lots and lots to work on
<dupondje> The html pages are updated 17-Apr-2011 23:02
<dupondje> but dirs are indeed up-to-date it seems
<Sweetshark> seb128, pitti: http://sweetshark.livejournal.com/857.html
<pitti> \o/
<diwic> Sweetshark, hmm, headline says "10.04"
<Sweetshark> diwic: thanks.
 * Sweetshark mumbles something about breaking things with last minute changes being never a good idea.
<Sweetshark> diwic: fixed.
<diwic> Sweetshark, it's all about fixing errors :-)
<dupondje> Any idea when Gnome3 gets pushed into Oneiric ? :)
<dholbach> dupondje, check out the oneiric-changes list - a lot of 3.0 gnome stuff got uploaded already
<doko> janimo: could you make the rebuilt apt available somewhere?
<janimo> doko, I will shortly
<mvo> janimo: oh?
<mvo> janimo: its just a rebuild that is needed?
<janimo> mvo, ARM only. Relax :)
<mvo> I was just looking into it on the porter machine but its *slow*
<mvo> so did not get even close to diangosing it
<mvo> janimo: what is the issue? gcc-4.6 incompatible changes?
<janimo> mvo, I do not know yet, the only thing so far is that a rebuild with -O0 does not crash
<mvo> janimo: cool, thanks!
<janimo> it crashes in libapt-pkg in some printf-sytle function. If -fshrink-wrap was not disabled until fixed I would suspect that
<doko> janimo: hmm, is shrink-wrap in Linaro 4.6 at all?
<janimo> doko, no idea
<doko> janimo: please wait with an upload until we know the reason
<janimo> doko, I am not uploading anything
<janimo> especially since I don't see how it will not FTBFS itself. Would it not?
<doko> janimo: sure, but even a manual build would require an upload
<janimo> doko, right
<pitti> barry: hey Barry, how are you?
<barry> pitti: hi, good, and you?
<pitti> barry: quite well, thanks! successfully moved to Augsburg over the weekend
<barry> congrats!
 * barry looks up augsburg
<pitti> barry: Tomeu just asked whether you would have an opinion about my patch in gnome bug 649165
<ubottu> Gnome bug 649165 in introspection "Enumeration symbols are LC_CTYPE specific" [Major,New] http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=649165
<Sweetshark> pitti: augsburg? try not to forget how to speak proper german then ...
<pitti> Sweetshark: FSVO "proper" -- I'm from Saxony
<barry> pitti: hi okay, i'll take a look
<Sweetshark> pitti: hehe, that has not gone unnoticed when we had some phone calls.
<pitti> Sweetshark: nu glar
<stgraber> Laney: ping
<stgraber> Laney: can you update https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-o-dmb-meeting to be something else than "Complete" ? that might be why it doesn't appear on the schedule ...
<barry> pitti: i have some comments
<stgraber> jono: ping
<jono> stgraber, hey
<barry> pitti: let me know when you're ready :)
<stgraber> jono: do you have a sec to look/approve two UDS specs in the community track ? https://blueprints.launchpad.net/edubuntu/+spec/community-o-debian-edu-edubuntu-collaboration and https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/community-o-edubuntu
<jono> one sec
<stgraber> jono: they have special scheduling needs but I'll take care of that once they hit the summit website
<jono> stgraber, done :-)
<genis> hi
<genis> apparently for python-qt4-sql there is no support for postgresql
<genis> QSqlDatabase: QPSQL driver not loaded
<genis> QSqlDatabase: available drivers: QSQLITE QMYSQL3 QMYSQL
<genis> from the defaul deb packages
<genis> on 10.10
<DoctorPepper> hi  guys!!!
<genis> where can I find out if it will be supported
<genis> in a future update?
<pitti> barry: perhaps we should discuss that in the bug, so that the upstream guys can follow?
<Laney> stgraber: do you mean 'informational'?
<stgraber> jono: thanks!
<jono> :-)
<stgraber> Laney: I'd at least change the "Complete" status for something else as I doubt completed specs appear on summit.u.c, changing to something else than informational may also be a good idea
<stgraber> I don't know the exact criteria, but the current spec is approved and wasn't imported on summit.u.c, so something is wrong :)
<Laney> I can't edit the Status bit
<barry> pitti: okay.  i'll go get an account :)
<Laney> but I changed Implementation and it made Status go to 'Not started'
<Laney> we'll see what that does
<pitti> barry: oh, you don't have one? thanks
<barry> pitti: actually, i do!
<stgraber> jcastro: ^ can you change the status ?
<jcastro> stgraber: on it
<stgraber> jcastro: thanks
<barry> pitti: comment posted
<davidm> jcastro, we need to send map info to proximalabs folks or should we just skip map info?
<jcastro> davidm:  wait I thought marianna sent you a map?
<jcastro> let me reping
<davidm> jcastro, I can't find an email with a map attached
<hallyn> SpamapS: re bug 719448, when you say 'accepted to sru', does that mean you're pushing the package, or that you're waiting for me to push the fix to lucid-proposed and maverick-proposed and you'll allow it when I do?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 719448 in qemu-kvm (Ubuntu Maverick) "The "once" parameter does not work with "-boot"" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/719448
<jcastro> davidm: I have a PDF they sent me on april 1st that I forwarded to you that day, do you have that?
<pitti> barry: ah, thanks!
<pitti> barry: so you generally agree to the approach, just the implementation could be more robust?
<SpamapS> hallyn: that means its accepted for the series as a valid SRU (as opposed to being too intrusive for instance)
<hallyn> SpamapS: do i need to push the package to the -proposed archives?
<SpamapS> I swear, UDD is just plain broken. :( 50/50 chance the package branch will be out of date
<SpamapS> http://package-import.ubuntu.com/status/bash-completion.html#2011-03-15 20:29:05.392361
<SpamapS> hallyn: yes thats the typical workflow (step 4 at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates :)
<SpamapS> james_w`: is there anything someone in my position can do to improve UDD? Should I be manually importing/fixing branches?
<hallyn> SpamapS: james_w`: yes, that's been killing me lately.  bzr checkout rarely gives me the actual current archive copy
<hallyn> SpamapS: yeah, sorry, i'm to queezy about uploading things.  will push those then, thanks much.
<SpamapS> hallyn: its good to be hesitant in this case. :)
<jcastro> davidm: ok she sent one better than what I sent you before, in your inbox.
<davidm> jcastro, thanks I'll forward now to proximalabs
<jcastro> sorry about that I thought I had closed that loop
<j1mc> pitti: i have marked you as an approver for my blueprint, but i'm not sure if you're the right person. i picked you because you were signed up as the approver for several desktop-* blueprints.
<j1mc> pitti: here's the link: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu-docs/+spec/desktop-o-ubuntu-docs-strategy
<j1mc> if someone else should be assigned, please feel free to re-assign
<jcastro> davidm: any idea when the app will suck in the schedule?
<dupondje> thanks to the guy who fixed the MoM :)
<stgraber> pitti: for bug 436936 should I upload the suggested fix to Oneiric for both gdm and kdebase-workspace and upload the same to natty-proposed for testing (bug will need extended testing with a range of graphic cards to make sure we don't get any regression)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 436936 in kdebase-workspace (Ubuntu Karmic) "gdm upstart job checks /proc/cmdline for single user mode, won't start on post-boot runlevel change" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/436936
<dupondje> somebody should accept openssl into oneiric :) cant build half of packages because of it now :)
<micahg> dupondje: it's in binary new
<dupondje> micahg: I know. but pbuilder can't build alot now because ca-certs depends on it
<micahg> jdstrand: do you have time to look at openssl in binary new?
<jdstrand> micahg: not atm-- possibly later today (another aa who is on duty today may be able to)
<jdstrand> micahg: that said armel is ftbfs
<micahg> jdstrand: ugh, should that be fixed before going through binary new, it's blocking most of the archive?
<jdstrand> micahg: meh
 * jdstrand looks
<jdstrand> it is a weird error in armel, I don't know how to fix it. might be a chroot problem
<micahg> jdstrand: I only pinged you in case it needed some sort of security team review, was going to ping the AA on duty
<jdstrand> lamont: ^
<lamont> it's arm.
<jdstrand> micahg: cjwatson did the upload, so I don't think it needs anything special
<micahg> jdstrand: k, I'll ping another AA
<jdstrand> micahg: I'm already doing it
<micahg> jdstrand: oh, heh, sorry then, but thanks :)
 * jdstrand was thinking the armel thing would need to be fixed, but since it is blocking everything, let's not
<lamont> apparently apt needs a recompile to survive what 4.6 did to it
<lamont> so don't expect oneiric arm builds until I get poked to do the bootstraporama
<lamont> jdstrand: and it'll require me to deal with it
<lamont> for some value of "me"
<stgraber> Laney: ping
<Laney> stgraber: hi
<stgraber> Laney: hi, spec still didn't appear on the summit website ... can you try setting Definition to new maybe ?
<Laney> haha
<Laney> maybe someone can tell us how this was done in the past? ;-)
<stgraber> Laney: scheduler should run in 10 minutes, if it still doesn't appear, I'll just add it manually in the DB :)
<stgraber> Laney: comparing with other specs I registerd and that got approved, only the Definition is different, so if changing it doesn't work, I don't know what will :)
<j1mc> stgraber: you might not be the right person for this, but i think i registered my blueprint under the wrong project. i can't change the project, should i just create a new one, and mark the old one as superceded?
<j1mc> stgraber: here's the link: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu-docs/+spec/desktop-o-ubuntu-docs-strategy  if you go to https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu-docs/ it says, "Launchpad does not know how Ubuntu Documentation tracks feature planning or documentation."  that the project
<j1mc> which isn't good.  : )
<stgraber> j1mc: don't you see a "re-target" button ?
<jdstrand> lamont: heh, ok :)
<stgraber> s/button/link/
<j1mc> yep
<j1mc> ah, got it... thanks.
<stgraber> yeah, for whatever reason it's not in Edit details :)
<j1mc> i thought that might be just for re-targeting to a new sprint or release milestone
<stgraber> Laney: did you change the Definition to new ? scheduler is supposed to run in ~5 minutes
<Laney> stgraber: rushing, lost network
<Laney> done
<jdstrand> micahg: done
<micahg> jdstrand: thanks
<jdstrand> sure
<stgraber> Laney: thanks
<micahg> dupondje: openssl should be done, there might be other issues though
<Laney> stgraber: no good?
<stgraber> Laney: just appeared on the schedule!
<stgraber> I'm going to move it to the right slot now
<stgraber> Laney: ok, scheduled at 16:15 in a 20 slots room. Now to solve the conflicts :)
<Laney> :-)
<stgraber> Laney: we still have multiple conflicts but next run of the scheduler should move some stuff around to fix that
<ScottK> Did someone look into perl 5.12?
<ScottK> I'm not volunteering to do it, but with the transition started in Debian, I think the sooner the better.
<SpamapS> ScottK: nah, lets just hold off until 6.00 ;)
<ScottK> Python3 will be default befor that happens.
<stgraber> ScottK: I'm currently looking at bug 436936 and preparing the new upstart job for kdebase-workspace. Is that something you want uploaded to Oneiric as soon as it's ready or do you prefer to wait until someone has something else to upload ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 436936 in kdebase-workspace (Ubuntu Natty) "gdm upstart job checks /proc/cmdline for single user mode, won't start on post-boot runlevel change" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/436936
<ScottK> stgraber: kdebase-workspace is a huge build.  It's probably better just to commit it to bzr.
<stgraber> ScottK: what's the right place to commit that ? apt-get showsrc tells me lp:~kubuntu-members/kdebase-workspace/ubuntu but bzr tells me it doesn't exist ...
<ScottK> stgraber: Should be ~/kubuntu-packagers.
<ScottK> We just moved them and the packages aren't updated yet.
<ScottK> You should have access there.
<stgraber> ok, I'll also make sure debian/control has the rights Vcs field then :)
<kees> jcastro: how do I mark a blueprint to _not_ be auto-scheduled for UDS? i.e. I want to keep it as a work-item tracker but not have discussion.
<slangasek> kees: have it rejected for the sprint
<slangasek> it can be targeted to oneiric without being accepted for uds-o
<jcastro> kees: what he said ^
<kees> slangasek: ah-ha! okay
<stgraber> ScottK: ok, pushed to ~kubuntu-packagers/kdebase-workspace/ubuntu/. Was just wondering how you're dealing with SRUs though as I noticed a natty-proposed changelog entry in that branch (not sure you want to mix -proposed and oneiric changelog entries)
<ScottK> stgraber: We normally just keep a 'trunk' so building you change on top of natty-proposed is good.
<SpamapS> hmmm.. LP shows openssl 1.0 in oneiric, but my mirror does not..
<Laney> it is/was in NEW
<SpamapS> DOH
<SpamapS> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/oneiric/+queue?queue_state=0&queue_text=openssl
<SpamapS> maybe just need to wait for a mirror update?
<micahg> SpamapS: yeah, it was freed about 90 minutes ago
<SpamapS> AH
<SpamapS> where is that time? the package in LP says 17 hours
<micahg> SpamapS: check scrollback here :)
<SpamapS> doh
<maco> pitti: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/cups/+bug/494141 im lost. a 10.10 user says this still happens for them, yet it's marked fix released in karmic and discussion continues... any idea what the next step is?
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 494141 in cups (Ubuntu Lucid) "CUPS starts after SAMBA; printers are not available (convert cups to upstart)" [Medium,Fix committed]
<SpamapS> maco: IIRC it was converted to an upstart job in 10.10 .. maybe the start on needs work?
<maco> SpamapS: yes it was converted, and there's also a comment in there with pitti sru'ing something...and i dont know what the patch was that he sru'd
<SpamapS> maco: I believe the fix was to send smbd a HUP whenever cups starts
<stgraber> ScottK: ok, now for the SRU. I see that there's already a kdebase-workspace in proposed. Should I upload the upstart job SRU now or do you prefer to wait for the current one to hit -updates and then upload the upstart job fix in -proposed ?
<SpamapS> maco: actually no, what happens is smbd starts cups in its pre-start
<SpamapS> Oh wait, no.. ugh.. ok.. so confused .. thats not done either.
<ScottK> stgraber: I'd prefer to let the current one get to -updates first.
<ScottK> Entangled SRUs get complex.
<bbigras> I made a branch and a debdiff to fix a little bug I got with pnopaste on Lucid (bug 771421). What should I do next?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 771421 in pnopaste (Ubuntu) "problem with the cronjob : Can't locate conf/debiandb.pm in @INC" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/771421
<SpamapS> ScottK: +1 .. one at a time please. :)
<stgraber> ScottK: ok. I'll have the gdm uploaded in a few minutes, so we can probably do the testing with this one and if it works fine, the kdebase-workspace one should be easy (as the diff is identical)
<spartan-11510> Hi!
<spartan-11510> I've a little proplem
<spartan-11510> I can't upload my pgp key on launchpad
<micahg> spartan-11510: try #launchpad for support with that
<spartan-11510> Ok thx
<cjwatson> dupondje: I just finished fixing MoM this morning, so it was probably running when you asked about it.  the first successful run for ages completed at 13:58 UTC
<geser> \o/
<cjwatson> it required backporting patch 2.6 in order to successfully unpack banshee, and then running pack-archive to free up some disk space
<geser> is there enough free space or do we get "disk full" during oneiric?
 * micahg hugs cjwatson for fixing MoM
<cjwatson> geser: I think it should be OK; the problems typically arise if it breaks for a while and nobody notices
<cjwatson> because it uses temporary space proportional to the size of the packages it needs to operate on in a given run
<cjwatson> (AIUI)
<cjwatson> /dev/cciss/c0d0p1    557446636 472874300  78953604  86% /
<cjwatson> also the more merges get done the fewer base revisions it has to keep
<jcastro> ScottK: try to edit the schedule now
<ScottK> Trying ...
<ScottK> I have the edit button now.
<ScottK> jcastro: Thanks.
<dupondje> cjwatson: :) nice
<soren> Yay. First server upgraded to oneiric.
<ajmitch> as long as it's not a critical production server
 * highvoltage will try for oneiric+1 then :(
<Keybuk> I wish the Ubuntu dch would recognise "unstable" ...
<soren> ajmitch: Hardly :)
#ubuntu-devel 2011-05-03
<DasEi> I understand from what I've found about the idea behind unity, though think just from clickNfeel it's a longer way to find desired app or action. What I like to know, is there a comprehensive guide or howto on how to adapt unity to ones daily needs ?
<psusi> if the system hangs within an instance of qemeu, how can you send a magic sysrq key to the emulator and not the host?
<Keybuk> psusi: yes
<Keybuk> psusi: C-A-2 for the monitor
<Keybuk> send break
<Keybuk> or sendkey break
<Keybuk> something like that
<Keybuk> C-a b might do it too
<psusi> Keybuk, hey.. I been meaning to ask you... are you still maintaining the upstream ureadahead?  because you're the only one with upload rights to lp:ureadahead
<psusi> hrm.. those keys don't seem to do anything
<psusi> man that is fubar... trying to create 16 logical partitions in qemu with either 10.10 or 11.04 makes the system to completely wonky, sometimes refusing to accept more mouse input, sometimes crashing Xorg... is there a channel for qa testers?
<ohsix> hm, oregano has an untranslated string in _english_, the online translation stuff won't let me correct it
<ohsix> the "test clamp" should say something about an instrument probe, but it says "Punte de Prueba" in the english translation
<SpamapS> Point of Test
<SpamapS> :)
<SpamapS> Prueba is definitely one word that sticks from my high school spanish.
 * SpamapS gets out the really big pointy stick to show the erlang merge he means business
<ScottK> ohsix: oregano is in Universe, so it's translations aren't done in Launchpad.
<SpamapS> hmm.. I wonder if the upstart->dbus->plymouth bridge shows instances... wait-for-state needs a very carefully crafted description.
<ScottK> SpamapS: Would you please push boost-mpi-source out of binary New?
<ScottK> I need it for a merge I'm working on.
<SpamapS> ScottK: I'm not allowed to do full archive admin yet. :/
<ScottK> Oh.  I saw you in the team and assumed.
<ScottK> No problem.
<ScottK> I should go to sleep anyway.
<SpamapS> ScottK: cjwatson and pitti were too busy w/ the release to train me yet
<SpamapS> ScottK: btw, sorry I couldn't help w/ the opendkim thing.. its really, really confusing why it doesn't work.
<ScottK> Perhaps one of them will read the scrollback and take care of it while we are sleeping ...
<SpamapS> ScottK: they do seem to have magical powers that way. :)
<pitti> Good morning
<RAOF> Good morning pitti
<pitti> ScottK: seems someone already NEWed boost in the meantime?
<ScottK> pitti: No.  It's in binary New https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/oneiric/+queue?queue_state=0&queue_text=boost
<ScottK> (armel binary is missing due to the general armel breakage)
<pitti> oh, I was looking at the wrong page, sorry (missed that there are several)
 * pitti cleans up the queue
<ScottK> No problem.   Thanks for looking into it.
<broder> that was...impressively magical :)
<abhinav-> pitti: if you have time then about bug 772336 , I just want to know if dependency on python-wnck is ok ? and how to attach the screenshot with the rest of the data that apport collects for creating the report ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 772336 in apport (Ubuntu) "Add feature to take screenshots of the buggy window" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/772336
<pitti> abhinav-: we can't use python-wnck, it needs to use GI I'm afraid (it's both obsolete, and it's also very crash prone to use static and GI bindings in the same program)
<pitti> abhinav-: i. e. we want to use gir1.2-wnck-3.0
<abhinav-> pitti: hm I don't know how to use GI :(
<pitti> ScottK: boost NEWed; I also cleaned the binNEW from Debian syncs, so the queue is back from 144 to 5 now
<ScottK> pitti: Thanks.
<abhinav-> pitti: how can I look what are all the methods provided in gir1.2-wnck-3.o ?
<pitti> abhinav-: https://live.gnome.org/PyGObject/IntrospectionPorting documents the new way of doing things
<pitti> abhinav-: in short, just use the C API documentation
<abhinav-> pitti: thanks! that was easy :) . I also did "import gtk" and "from gtk import gdk" , they also need to be changed for GI ?
<pitti> abhinav-: right; but apport-gtk already has them
<abhinav-> oh ok :)
<Laibsch> geser: Thank you for the idea to install the packages into the base.tgz.  I guess it's still pretty weird they weren't pulled in on their own, but at least I was able to recompile grub now.
<Sweetshark> doko_: ping?
<abhinav-> pitti: are we using gdk 3.0 for apport ?
<pitti> abhinav-: not in natty, but we will use gtk3/gdk3 for all our pygi stuff in oneiric
<pitti> abhinav-: you can already run the natty versino with gtk 3, it will just look a bit ugly due to the missing theme
<abhinav-> hm I am not sure, but it seems like doing "from gi.repository import gdk" is using gdk 3.0
<pitti> abhinav-: in /usr/share/apport/apport-gtk (or you local checkout), just drop this line:
<pitti> gi.require_version('Gtk', '2.0')
<pitti> abhinav-: it's "import Gdk", BTW
<abhinav-> ah yes
<pitti> abhinav-: yes, it will take the latest version which is installed, unless you set it with require_version
<abhinav-> alright :)
<lucidfox> uuuuuugh, Unity
<lucidfox> my first problem after updating my coworker's machine to Ubuntu 11.04 was how to revert to the classic desktop...
<pitti> without even let him try it for a bit?
<tjaalton> is there a way to change the desktop with just one hand (on unity)?
<doko> janimo: did you rebuild apt with old curl?
<janimo> curl?
<janimo> no, was that mentioned somewhere?
<janimo> I built in uptodate oeiric
<doko> hmm, ok, some dependencies not fulfilled
<janimo> doko,  how do you run the testsuit of eglibc? Are the failures in the bugreport only from build logs?
<pitti> doko: sid's new libgc has no mention of GC_TEST_AND_SET_DEFINED or any of the other code that you patched in 1:6.8-1.2ubuntu1 (lucid); want me to sync it, and we'll see how it goes on armel, or do you want to test this manually?
<pitti> doko: (it's on my merge list as I touched it for a no-change rebuild)
<doko> pitti: not my priority at the moment. maybe check with the arm porters? ;)
<doko> janimo: debian/rules check should be enough
<pitti> ogra: ^ see my question to doko -- the patch needs to be completely redone anyway, so should we just try with the Debian version for now?
<janimo> doko, what is the best way to switch between multiple gcc versions?
<doko> janimo: you mean test builds? probably separate chroots
<doko> mvo: still no verbose build in apt by default :-/
<janimo> doko, no, in the live system. I now use symlinks, but something like update-alternatives would be nicer
<doko> and no parallel build
<doko> janimo: CC= CXX= are your friends for this
<janimo> doko, I get a link error in make check in eglibc, but no test result outputs
<janimo> tst-cancel24.o:(.ARM.extab+0x0): undefined reference to `__gxx_personality_v0'
<doko> alternatives for api incompatible stuff just calls for trouble
<doko> hmm, strange
<janimo> doko, not chroot though, I'll try that next I guess
<ogra_> pitti, just sync ... we have 6 months :)
<doko> janimo: yesterday I did a eglibc test rebuild in oneiric, without problems
<tumbleweed> doko: can we get --whole-archive linking in python2.7 in Ubuntu? (I assume it's already in your todo list, but making sure :P )
<mvo> doko: sorry, comited a fix for this to bzr now
<pitti> ogra_: ack
<Laney> is process-removals (or the correct name) not run any more?
<slangasek> Laney: it's been run very intermittently - we need to go back and do a complete run, I have a tendency to only remember the problem during freezes so thanks for the reminder
<Laney> slangasek: Yes, I'd appreciate that especially as I very often forget to file corresponding LP removals after doing ftp.d.o ones
<Laney> just discovered some retro mono packages kicking around in Ubuntu
<slangasek> yeah, there's a lot of really old stuff in there still :(  I'll take a look at it in the morning
<Laney> thanks
<abhinav-> pitti: there is a problem. in Gdk 3.x they have replaced GdkRegion with cairo_region_t and thus I need to use cairo_region functions . is there a gir module for cairo ?
<yofel> stgraber: re kdebase-workspace branch: If you want to update any other Vcs entries, they're owned by kubuntu-packagers, not kubuntu-uploaders
<yofel> (I fixed that for workspace already)
<Laney> hrw: barry: you might wish to add yourself to https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-o-dmb-meeting to please the scheduler
<Quintasan1> jcastro: ping
<Laney> jelmer: ^^^ you too (hopefully we'll get that far :-)
<barry> Laney: done, thanks
<Laney> np
<jelmer> Laney: thanks, done
<pitti> abhinav-: I think cairo only has static bindings for the moment
<pitti> python-gobject-cairo
<abhinav-> pitti: in Gdk2.x there is a method Gdk.region_rectangle but it has been completely removed in 3.x
<abhinav-> pitti: so I should do "import cairo" ?
<pitti> abhinav-: I don't know what it got replaced with, but if it's cairo, then sure
<doko> mvo: do you have any changes pending for an apt upload?
<abhinav-> pitti: yes, people at #gtk+ told that GdkRegion got replaced with cairo_region_t
<mvo> doko: let me check
<doko> mvo: please upload a version with a temporary b-d on gcc-4.6 (>= 4.6.0-6ubuntu2)
<mvo> doko: ok
 * abhinav- is frustrated with cairo :( 
<stgraber> yofel: oops, not sure why I updated this one after ScottK pointed me to the right one ... sorry
<jcastro> Quintasan: pong
<Quintasan> jcastro: ahhh, mind if I go on /msg?
 * lucidfox looks at the heap of old packages on REVU :(
<lucidfox> I'm tempted to just mass-reject all REVU packages before mid-2010, because seriously, every time I actually go there with the intent to review packages, the mass of those old ones makes me panic
<tumbleweed> is this not a sign that REVU isn't working?
<lucidfox> Well, some packages from it do get uploaded, it's just that people allow it to get covered in cobwebs and dust...
<tumbleweed> a problem is that without active maintainence, packages die. And lots of packages in REVU look like they might be drive-by submissions. I tend to suggest Debian for new packages where appropriate...
<ScottK> lucidfox: I'm OK with that.
<lucidfox> Well, it's a vicious cycle. Packagers submit packages, reviewers don't review because of the long queue stretching back to two years ago, packagers lose interest and stop updating, reviewers archive packages and forget about them
<lucidfox> and yes, I found Debian's ITP more responsive most of the time
<tumbleweed> another problem is the release cycle. Packages really should get accepted before feature freeze, but I don't know how many submitters are aware of the schedule
<doko> pitti, Sweetshark: re-openened the ooo-langpacks spec
<rohan> hi.. i am trying to know how a livecd upgrade (introduced in 11.04) works.
<rohan> I asked in #ubuntu but that channel is too noisy -- sorry for butting in here
<cjwatson> ev: ^-
<ev> rohan: I posted about this on ubuntu-devel-announce: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2011-April/000841.html
<rohan> oh, i could have sworn that i was subscribed to ubuntu-devel-announce..
<rohan> thanks a lot, cjwatson , ev :)
<ev> sure thing
 * cjwatson tries to get merges.u.c to actually update
<cjwatson> mysterious 404s while updating the pool
<Sweetshark> doko: pitti and I skimmed through the exsisting blueprints, which is why this was closed. IMHO the solution would be http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Development/Gsoc/Ideas#Translations_using_gettext and blueprints desktop-o-libreoffice and desktop-o-libreoffice-communities vaguely refer to that.
<lynxman> ping pitti
<kirkland> cjwatson: pitti: what creates /etc/hosts during installation?
<ScottK> slangasek: I'm starting to suspect that Bug #769514 is somehow multi-arch/chroot related too.  All the Postfix config files I've reviewed offline look correct.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 769514 in postfix (Ubuntu) "Mail not sent unless relayhost has a port number" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/769514
<ScottK> My suspicioun is /etc/services in the chroot isn't being read.
<cjwatson> kirkland: netcfg
<kirkland> cjwatson: cool, thanks
<ScottK> (just imagine I spelled that better)
<kirkland> lynxman: ^
<lynxman> kirkland: gotcha
<kirkland> cjwatson: there seems to be some situation in server and/or cloud installs that ends up with an /etc/hosts file missing the 127.0.1.1 $hostname entry
<kirkland> lynxman: investigating and solving that will be best in the long run
<lynxman> kirkland: definitely, will have a quick look, thanks :)
<kirkland> lynxman: as for the cloud installs, check with smoser
<kirkland> lynxman: it might be something he needs to add to either cloud-init, or to his image build scripts
<lynxman> kirkland: that I think has a solution already
<kirkland> lynxman: oh?
<lynxman> kirkland: cloud-init has the otion to address it
<lynxman> kirkland: you have an option in cloud-init were you can let cloud-init manage /etc/hosts using a template
<kirkland> lynxman: i see
<cjwatson> kirkland: by design, you only get 127.0.1.1 if you haven't configured a better static address
<cjwatson> that's the sole condition involved here
<kirkland> cjwatson: oh, interesting;  lynxman -- is that the situation you're encountering?
<lucidfox> Is there a way to print a list of all source packages known to apt?
<lynxman> cjwatson: the problem we're seeing is that on default cloud installs there's no entry in /etc/hosts that matches hostname
<cjwatson> netcfg always writes out such an entry.  I don't know what cloud-init does to it
<lynxman> cjwatson: so we got an IP and a generated hostname delivered by the metadata service, but then no entry in /etc/hosts shows up
<lynxman> cjwatson: same for cobbler, it gets IP and hostname, but no entry in /etc/hosts either
<cjwatson> lynxman: I don't see anything in netcfg that could cause that.  you sure it isn't a cloud-init problem?
<cjwatson> (which is not a package I know anything about)
<lynxman> cjwatson: cloud-init is not in play on this, I can solve it through cloud-init overwriting /etc/hosts but on a default install that's an issue
<cjwatson> lynxman: well, give me /var/log then
<cjwatson> and /etc/hosts
<lynxman> cjwatson: sure, gimme 2 ticks
<lynxman> cjwatson: got everything, email is fine?
<cjwatson> lynxman: sure
<psusi> cjwatson: I have a server I just upgraded to natty and grub is puking on the raid5 claiming it is seeing multiple disks with the same id, and more disks than the array is supposed to contain.  I suspect this is because of the changes to recognize the new md superblock formats and grub is detecting the superblock both in the whole disk, as well as in the partition ( single raid partition ).  Any ideas on how to test that theory?
<cjwatson> lynxman,kirkland: this isn't a d-i install, nor ubiquity.  cloud-init is doing it all itself.  not my problem ...
<cjwatson> lynxman,kirkland: I assume it does its own debootstrap and fills things out from there.
<cjwatson> lynxman: if you want me to investigate a problem with the standard server installer, I'll need logs from a system that was actually installed with the standard server installer :)
<lynxman> cjwatson: fair enough :)
<cjwatson> psusi: hm, there were a few changes in 1.99~rc2 that might address that
<lynxman> cjwatson: I'll look more into the problem, thanks
<cjwatson> psusi: e.g.:
<cjwatson> 2011-04-06  Vladimir Serbinenko  <phcoder@gmail.com>
<cjwatson>         * grub-core/disk/mdraid1x_linux.c (grub_mdraid_detect): Detect spares
<cjwatson>         and report them as not RAID members since they are useless for GRUB.
<cjwatson>         * grub-core/disk/mdraid_linux.c (grub_mdraid_detect): Likewise.
<cjwatson> psusi: I'll be merging 1.99~rc2 into Debian and Ubuntu at some point over the next week or so, I think (I'm doing some fairly large packaging changes at the same time); once I've done that, it might be worth trying that, though I don't know how much time I have
<kirkland> cjwatson: thanks, no problem, we'll take it up with smoser
<psusi> hrm... I'll give it a try... though I don't have any spares... just 4 disks each with a single raid partition
<cjwatson> er, *how much time you have
<cjwatson> there's also "Identify RAID by its UUID rather than (guessed) name."
<psusi> cjwatson: I should pull from lp:grub/grub2?
<cjwatson> psusi: yeah, though the patch resolution will be tricky
<cjwatson> psusi: which superblock format are you using?
<psusi> cjwatson: hrm... I would say 0.9 but I'm not sure if that is still the default.. was the default changed in maverick?  I built the array with d-i when installing maverick...
<Quintasan> urgh, how do I install grub from live cd?
<Quintasan> I get /usr/sbin/grub-probe: error: cannot stat `aufs'.
<cjwatson> psusi: the default was changed a while back.  check /proc/mdstat
<cjwatson> Quintasan: chroot
<Quintasan> cjwatson: can't do that, claims /dev is not mounted
<cjwatson> Quintasan: bind-mount it (and /proc and /sys)
<cjwatson> (you certainly can do it, I do it all the time)
<cjwatson> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Grub2#METHOD%203%20-%20CHROOT
<Quintasan> uhmm
<Quintasan> something is strage here
<Quintasan> cjwatson: I mounted my / under /mnt when on livecd
<Quintasan> and I have "@" directory
<Quintasan> is this normal?
<cjwatson> Quintasan: yes, you're using btrfs
<cjwatson> mount -o subvol=@
 * ogra_ wonders why nilfs2 rootfs'es dont work :(
<psusi> cjwatson: actually it has to be 0.9 since grub in maverick did not understand any other formats didn't it?
<RoAkSoAx> /query/win 22
<RoAkSoAx> argh
<ogra_> i added a hook script to copy all the mount.nilfs2 and umoun.nilfs2 bits ... but the initrd still dies
<cjwatson> psusi: maverick would have been 0.9, yes
<cjwatson> psusi: however, the maverick installer forced some unpartitioned space at the end of the disk to account for this problem
<cjwatson> (lucid as well)
<cjwatson> at least it was supposed to
<psusi> I'll check and make sure that's there and try building a grub rescue cd from lp:grub/grub2 then
<cjwatson> psusi: grub-probe has a -vv option that may help too
<lucidfox> Hmm, maybe I should write a "common REVU rejection reasons" or "REVU submission checklist" page
<Quintasan> cjwatson: Thanks!
<Quintasan> ...
<Quintasan> oh wait, now I get Geom Error
<cjwatson> Quintasan: that's a GRUB Legacy error ...
<cjwatson> wait, no it isn't
<Quintasan> magic
<Quintasan> I didnt do anything except that chroot stuff
<cjwatson> does your BIOS not support LBA?
<Quintasan> no idea, it's an Acer Extensa 5220 laptop
<cjwatson> well, that error is CHS-specific I think
<cjwatson> it might be easier to tweak the BIOS setup to use LBA than to figure out why GRUB is breaking with CHS
<Quintasan> cant find any LBA in BIOS setup
<cjwatson> ironically, this error is documented in the GRUB Legacy info doc but not in GRUB 2
<cjwatson> http://paste.ubuntu.com/602863/
<cjwatson> are you trying to install to a partition?
<psusi> cjwatson: yep, it is 0.9 with some free space at the end of the disk... mdadm -E doesn't find the superblock on sda either, just sda1.  guess that was a wrong guess...
<Quintasan> cjwatson: I did update-grub after chrooting, it was probably stupid of me to do so when grub could have not gotten installed
<cjwatson> psusi: or of course it's possible I didn't leave enough space
<cjwatson> Quintasan: are you trying to install to a partition?
<Quintasan> cjwatson: no idea, in graphical installer I pointed to install on /dev/sda
<cjwatson> Quintasan: this error is before GRUB manages to read the output of update-grub
<cjwatson> Quintasan: did you run 'grub-install /dev/sda' inside the chroot?
<Quintasan> nope
<cjwatson> you didn't reinstall GRUB then ...
<Quintasan> cjwatson: warn: Your core.img is unusually large. It won't fit in the embedding area...
<Quintasan> Later it says it can install by blocklists but they are unreliable
<cjwatson> Quintasan: yeah, particularly for btrfs.  I don't suppose it would be possible to move your first partition to the now-more-standard practice of starting 1MiB into the disk rather than 63 sectors in?
<cjwatson> Quintasan: we are going to implement a special embedding method for btrfs, but it's not in natty
<Quintasan> cjwatson: can I do it without reformatting anything?
<cjwatson> and GRUB's core.img with btrfs is indeed too large for first-partition-at-63-sectors (bug 774217)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 774217 in grub2 (Ubuntu) "btrfs, core.img too large" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/774217
<cjwatson> Quintasan: gparted should be able to, although you should take backups first
<cjwatson> sorry this is awkward, as noted in the release notes btrfs is still experimental, and that goes for the distro integration too ...
<Quintasan> cjwatson: That's why I wanted to test it :D
<cjwatson> Quintasan: I've release-noted 774217 now
<Quintasan> cjwatson: 1 MiB will be enough?
<cjwatson> easily
<Quintasan> I don't have anything valuabe apart from Windows install there so I can experiment more if you want me to :P
<cjwatson> it's only about 1KiB over the limit
<Who__> cjwatson: There are now logs in bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/774089 as you requested
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 774089 in Ubuntu "Booting fails 3 times, works every fourth time after new install of Natty Narwhal amd64 on Macbook Pro" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<Who__> cjwatson: but as yet no good way to install Ubuntu without requiring reflashing the firmware to the motherboard
<cjwatson> Who__: "Why does the installer even touch the firmware" - dubious axiom detected :)
<cjwatson> grub-install uses efibootmgr, maybe that's busted or being invoked wrongly
<cjwatson> AFAIK that's the only place we go near the firmware
<Who__> cjwatson: :) true, true. How about. "How does installing ubuntu on the hard disk cause a problem with the firmware"?
<Who__> cjwatson: Is the use of efibootmgr new? (ie did it happen in 10.10?)
<Who__> cjwatson: and thanks for looking at this
<cjwatson> Who__: it goes back to maverick, though details may have changed
<lucidfox> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/gmailwatcher
<lucidfox> <lucidfox> Good grief, just how many gmail notifiers does the Ubuntu archive need?
<lucidfox> <lucidfox> cgmail, checkgmail, gm-notify, gmail-notify, gnome-gmail-notifier, kgmailnotifier, kcheckgmail, and also gmail-notifier and gmailwatcher in proposed packages
<slangasek> ScottK: 769514> yes, service name resolution is also done via nss_files :/
<ScottK> slangasek: There's a proposed patch in the first one I pointed you to, so that's something.
 * slangasek nods
<slangasek> the patch needs finessing to get the right arch string at build time, but yeah
<ScottK> Would that solve this new one as well then?
<slangasek> yes
<ScottK> Excellent.
<ScottK> I'd appreciate it if you could make fixing this a priority.
<slangasek> yes, I think I can get that done today
<ScottK> Great.  Thanks.
<kirkland> jjohansen: howdy
<jjohansen> kirkland: hey
<kirkland> jjohansen: are you still planning on completing the ecryptfs-long-filename work for Oneiric?
<jjohansen> kirkland: yep /meneeds to get back to it
<kirkland> jjohansen: i don't think we necessarily need a UDS session about it, but perhaps just having a (or moving the natty)  blueprint for Oneiric would be nice
<kirkland> jjohansen: yeah, i think you were pretty close for Natty
<jjohansen> hrmm, right
<kirkland> jjohansen: would be nice to get that one front loaded
<jjohansen> well I would say its pretty far atm, the dentry file is a fair bit more work
<jjohansen> of course we can leverage a lot of what has been done
<jjohansen> kirkland: I will move the bp forward
<kirkland> jjohansen: sweet
<kirkland> jjohansen: well, sweet to the latter
<kirkland> jjohansen: bummer about the former
<jjohansen> heh, yeah
<psusi> cjwatson: I notice there is a dprint in there every time a raid member is registered... how do you enable that output?
<cjwatson> psusi: 'set debug=raid' (first arg to grub_dprintf) or 'set debug=all'
<psusi> cjwatson: any way to set that before the built in raid module is initialized?  or force it to reinitialize after setting it?
<cjwatson> grub-install --debug-image=raid or --debug-image=all
<cjwatson> (the latter will produce a *lot* of output)
<psusi> cjwatson: also I tried to ./grub-mkrescue up a bootable iso in the build directory of the upstream grub and it apparently built an empty iso... can it not work out of the build tree?  Does it have to be installed?
<psusi> hrm... since I'm building a bootable cd I can't use grub-install right?  any way to set that with mkrescue?
<smoser> kirkland, around ?
<kirkland> smoser: howdy
<smoser> i can give insight to the cloud-init /etc/hosts issue if you want.
<ohsix> ScottK: shrug, i looked at it and there were translations on there with various levels of completion, just not english
<smoser> cloud-init does not write /etc/hosts 127.0.1.1 entry by design.  that was so that it could avoid updating it, and dealing with overwriting user changes on subsequent "rebundles".
<ScottK> ohsix: Yes, but they are in the package itself, not part of the Launchpad translations system.
<kirkland> smoser: hmm
<smoser> instead it stays out of the way entirely.  Unless (in natty) you tell it to manage hosts.
<smoser> https://bugs.launchpad.net/cloud-init/+bug/768296 has more information
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 768296 in cloud-init "Setting hostname via config is not reflected in /etc/hosts" [Medium,Incomplete]
<smoser> on how to do that.
<kirkland> smoser: okay, i've subscribed lynxman to that bug;  he's the one having issues with this
<kirkland> smoser: i'm trying to help him work around it
<Who__> cjwatson: I don't have my machine back yet but if nobody has replied with more info (re: your comment on the bug) by the time I do have it, I'll put the logs up :)
 * slangasek gets rid of all the stale packages in oneiric that were removed from Debian in 2009 :(
<cjwatson> psusi: it can work from the build tree, but it takes a few options.  ./grub-mkrescue --grub-mkimage=./grub-mkimage --override-directory=grub-core -o grub.iso
 * micahg hugs slangasek for the archive cleanup
<Laney> \o/ thanks slangasek
<smoser> lynxman, bug 407861 is some history on that.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 407861 in Ubuntu on EC2 "ec2-init: ec2-set-hostname should be eliminated, trust DHCP" [Wishlist,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/407861
<chrisccoulson> SpamapS, there?
<SpamapS> chrisccoulson: here now, whats up?
<chrisccoulson> hi SpamapS. i'd like to get your thoughts on my comments at the end of bug 548866
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 548866 in Mozilla Firefox "forgets middlemouse.contentLoadURL on upgrade" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/548866
<chrisccoulson> basically, the fix for that is contributing to quite a serious and fairly widespread bug in natty
<SpamapS> reading
<SpamapS> chrisccoulson: +1 , High trumps Low even when it means regressing an already fixed Low.
<chrisccoulson> SpamapS, cool, thanks. i'll get this prepared and upload to natty-proposed in a bit then, once i've done some testing
<quadrispro> hi all
<pitti> doko: reopened ooo-langpacks> oh, why?
<pitti> kirkland: /etc/hosts> I don't know, I'm afraid
<jcastro> ScottK: your tracks are all set now? any issues?
<ScottK> jcastro: No issues.  I think it's all good.
<ScottK> If any problems come up, I'll just move server sessions out of the way.
<jcastro> heh
<psusi`> cjwatson: that version of grub has the same problem.  Also looking at the raid debug messages, it is NOT trying to recognize the member more than once; it complains about the duplicate ID the very first time it is scanned when loading mdraid09.mod
<Laney> ScottK: Is there any way you can move "Discuss Ubuntu Backports" earlier? I unfortunately have to fly at 1850 on Friday and so likely won't be able to make that time.
<Laney> I set my time on Launchpad but it still scheduled it then
<ScottK> Laney: I am not supposed to move those.  We need to ask slangasek.
<Laney> OK
<Laney> I guess we just did
<ScottK> Hopefully.
<SpamapS> Yeah I'd like to discuss that much earlier in the week
<slangasek> so, Monday?
<SpamapS> It will affect SRU discussions somewhat
<SpamapS> Monday would be awesome.
 * ScottK is pretty booked on Monday already.
<SpamapS> ScottK: where are you at 16:15 ?
<Laney> does it matter if it's before or after the ui session? expecting any overlap?
<Laney> 1615 is bad: DMB meeting
<SpamapS> 15:00 ?
<slangasek> er, actually, that was dumb of me
<ScottK> Postfix package improvements
<ScottK> SpamapS: ^^^ you want to be there too.
<SpamapS> slangasek: hah.. asking, right.. just tell us. :)
<slangasek> Laney: mark yourself as essential participation for the blueprint and record your hours of UDS availability; the autoscheduler will probably do a much better job of resolving the conflict than we will
<ScottK> I could stand to do the last session of the day.
<Laney> slangasek: I did already
<slangasek> SpamapS: no, I mean, it was dumb of me to unschedule the session
<Laney> didn't I?
<slangasek> Laney: right, I see that now
<slangasek> Laney: I think the system hadn't refreshed yet
<psusi> cjwatson: nevermind, my eyes must have glazed over... looked at it again and indeed it is scanning and detecting the superblock on both hdx and hdx,msdos1
<slangasek> shows a sched conflict now
<SpamapS> ScottK: yes I do. :) I forgot to do the hostname apport hook in natty, need to get that done. :)
<Laney> cool
 * Laney is sad to have to miss the wrap up and party
<ScottK> slangasek: How about 17:05 on Monday.
<ScottK> I can probably get more volunteers for stuff when they're tired.
<slangasek> ScottK: done
<cjwatson> psusi: I guess I must have got the partitioning constraints wrong; independent of whatever's going wrong with grub, that would be a bug on partman-base ...
<ScottK> Laney: ^^^ There you go.
<Laney> looks good to me
<Laney> thanks
<cjwatson> psusi: do you have a screenshot or something of the debug messages?
<psusi> cjwatson: it is the found array one immediately after the scanning for raid devices on... then the scanning on repeats for the ,msdos1 where you get the found two disks with the index one
<cjwatson> psusi: screenshots are loads easier to deal with than paraphrases
<psusi> for obvious reasons... how much space should be reserved? it was enough in maverick and it looked like a few thousond sectors when I checked earlier
<cjwatson> md(4) says: "The common format â known as version 0.90 â has a superblock that is 4K long and is written into a 64K aligned block that starts at least 64K and less than 128K from the end of the device (i.e. to get the address of the superblock round the size of the device down to a multiple of 64K and then subtract 64K)."
<cjwatson> so it needs to be enough to make the superblock unambiguous
<psusi> so at least 128k from the end of the disk is where the partition should end?
<cjwatson> 64K should be enough, given that description (since the superblock will be at least 64K before that)
<LLStarks> slangasek, robbiew proposed a new blueprint for debdelta yet i don't think foundations will be discussing it uds. is the debdelta blueprint dependent on how its gsoc project for debian goes?
<psusi> cjwatson: yep, 369 sectors between the end of the partition and the end of the disk...
<slangasek> LLStarks: we intended to put it on the agenda for UDS for foundations to discuss it, yes - but anything we implement for this cycle is almost certainly going to be dependent on the GSoC project
<slangasek> LLStarks: did you mean this one registered by cjwatson (not robbiew), or another? https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/foundations-o-debdelta
<LLStarks> yup
<LLStarks> that's the one, robbiew had mentioned a new proposal in the now-defunct apt-sync proposal
<LLStarks> heck, that's the first time i'm seeing that proposal because it's brand new
<LLStarks> i was going through the uds schedule yesterday and saw nothing about footprint or debdelta
<cjwatson> psusi: should be plenty.  maybe there's a stale superblock lying around at the end?
<cjwatson> LLStarks: I think the relevant things from our side will be dealing with whatever Ubuntu-specific infrastructure is required
<LLStarks> sounds good. is is oneiric or oneiric+1 lts the target?
<LLStarks> nvm
<psusi> cjwatson: I guess I could try poking around a bit manually, but mdadm -E doesn't see it and neither did maverick's grub...
<ScottK> slangasek: This (debdelta) reminds me ...  It seems like it's been quite awhile since the state of the dbgsym repository was discussed.  Would it be worth having a session to discuss how to better integrate it?
<sladen> ScottK: +1
<slangasek> ScottK: sure - whip me up a blueprint?
<ScottK> OK.
<ScottK> slangasek: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/foundations-o-dbgsym-integration/
<ScottK> sladen: ^^^
 * SpamapS subscribes
<sladen> I'll say it again though;  if zsync or debdelta or similiar are going to actually get deployed, they need to have top level management should for forcing it through because of the need to make the equivalent changes to the build and mirror infrastructure at the same time
<LLStarks> as long as traditional debs and ppas benefit, i'm all for it.
<LLStarks> *traditional debs can be used
<LLStarks> dbgsym should implemented as an included repo (toggled off?) or added to the already hefty sources repos. heck, even a command to automagically add it like a ppa would be nice. it wouldn't take much more than a python script or two.
<LLStarks> add-apt-dbgsym sourcepackagename
#ubuntu-devel 2011-05-04
<donkeyinspace> hello, i tried to compile only once and it went wrong can someone help me?
<lynxman> smoser: thanks for the pointer to that bug
<soreau> Hey guys, is there anywhere I can find the source for ubuntu's gdm? I'm trying to figure out what happens (or what's supposed to happen) when switching sessions.
<soreau> Selecting classic ubuntu worked the first time I tried it but since switching to ubuntu and back to classic, both load unity regardless no matter what I do
<cjwatson> soreau: apt-get source gdm
<soreau> cjwatson: thanks
<donkeyinspace> have 1 cd with ubuntu 11.04 alpha and 3 cds with ubuntu 11.04. the alpha one was burned in windows and i could be able to install it one or two times, know it crash . about the 3 ubuntu 11.04 two were burned using brasero and one was burned under windows the one burned in windows is the one that reaches far in the installation
<donkeyinspace> what can i do knw?
<donkeyinspace> *know
<donkeyinspace> my hard drive is not very well but  can install 10.10 whenever needed
<holstein> donkeyinspace: come to #ubuntu-beginners
<soreau> I have to say, Natty is by far the most incoherent version of ubuntu I've ever seen and I've been using this distribution since Hoary
<soreau> Ubuntu has let me down and I am very disappointed
<pitti> Good morning
<Captainkrtek> hello
<mfilipe> hello guys! I'm using linux-image with generic-pae but I want compile the same kernel with a patch applied. I installed linux-source-2.6.38, copied config-2.6.38-8-generic-pae to .config in linux-source dir and compiled with kernel-package. My problem is that I get kernel panic without patch applied. Anyone knows what is wrong?
<mfilipe> here is the best channel for support that?
<pitti> hmm, a lot of armel builds fail with  "apt-cache exit status 11"; what the heck?
<abhinav-> pitti: in Gdk 2.0 there seem to be another case of missing annotation. I am not able to find the method Gdk.get_default_root_window() , although the C API documents it for GDK 2.0
<pitti> hey abhinav-
<pitti> abhinav-: checking
<abhinav-> hi pitti , thanks :)
<pitti> abhinav-: right, see /usr/share/gir-1.0/Gdk-2.0.gir:
<pitti>     <function name="get_default_root_window"
<pitti>               introspectable="0">
<pitti> abhinav-: the .gir is the human readable API description
<pitti> abhinav-: introspectable="0" means that it isn't possible to safely bind this function for some reason
<pitti> presumably missing transfer annotation, /me looks
<pitti> abhinav-: it does work in Gdk-3.0, though; I thought you are using that anyway?
<abhinav-> pitti: yes I was trying for Gdk 3.0 but then I am not able to find the relevant functions in Cairo API
<abhinav-> I asked on their mailing list but didn't get any reponse
<pitti> ah, too bad
<pitti> we have to use gtk3 in oneiric
<abhinav-> yes I understand, using Gtk 3 is better
<abhinav-> maybe I should ask on #gtk+
<abhinav-> about cairo
<pitti> abhinav-: sorry for being a guinea pig for all this..
<abhinav-> pitti: no problem, I get to learn a lot from these problems. if I don't face problems there is no learning :)
<pitti> and they help to improve GTK, too :)
<abhinav-> yes :)
<pitti> GI is still fairly new, and thus we still uncover a lot of bugs along the way
<ScottK> pitti: Bug #774175 (re the armel failures)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 774175 in apt (Ubuntu Oneiric) "apt segfaults on armel in oneiric" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/774175
<abhinav-> yes, like yesterday I tried converting my script for Gtk3 directly using the pygi-convert.sh script, but it missed a few things in the conversion
<pitti> ScottK: ah, thanks; I suppose there will be a mass give-back after that, so we don't need to track the build failures individually
<ScottK> I certainly hope so.
<pitti> abhinav-: oh, do you still know which? I'm happy to add stuff to it
<abhinav-> pitti: yes, I know, I had to do that manually :)
<abhinav-> I will paste it on pastebin and give you in a moment
<abhinav-> pitti: python-cairo and pycairo are the same libraries ?
<pitti> abhinav-: pycairo is the source package/upstream project name, python-cairo is the binary package built from it
<abhinav-> ah ok.
<pitti> abhinav-: but actually I think that you should use python-gobject-cairo instead
<pitti> I'm not sure, maybe ask in #python?
<pitti> that's the one built by pygobject
<pitti> I have no idea about the difference
<abhinav-> hm ok
<abhinav-> heh I didn't know there was a #python channel on freenode as well. asked the question there now :)
<pitti> abhinav-: bad time of the day, of course (still too early for Europeans, and Americans are asleep)
<abhinav-> hm yeah :-/
<lucidfox> Why have armel builds been failing lately?
<pitti> lucidfox: bug 774175
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 774175 in apt (Ubuntu Oneiric) "apt segfaults on armel in oneiric" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/774175
<abhinav-> pitti: I was wrong, there was only one thing that I had to change manually in converting from Gtk2 to Gtk3 http://paste.ubuntu.com/603120/
<lucidfox> danke
<pitti> abhinav-: hm, that should already happen, hang on
<abhinav-> pitti: this was my script: https://bugs.launchpad.net/apport/+bug/772336/+attachment/2092936/+files/select_window.py
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 772336 in apport (Ubuntu) "Add feature to take screenshots of the buggy window" [Wishlist,Triaged]
<pitti> abhinav-: ah,, got it
<pitti> abhinav-: fixed in upstream trunk
<abhinav-> pitti: thanks :)
* spm changed the topic of #ubuntu-devel to: LP Down/ReadOnly 0800-0930 UTC | Ubuntu 11.04 released! | Oneiric Archive: OPEN | Development of Ubuntu (not support, not app development) | #ubuntu for support and general discussion for dapper ->  natty | #ubuntu-app-devel for application development on Ubuntu | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment | See #ubuntu-bugs for http://bit.ly/lv8soi | Patch Pilots:
<jussi> a) is anyone aware of a workaround for this bug? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/grub2/+bug/700910
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 700910 in grub2 (Ubuntu) "Unable to install GRUB2 to the same device as contains aufs in natty" [Undecided,Incomplete]
<jussi> b) can anyone help me give descriptive information to help solve the bug?
<cjwatson> jussi: the simplest workaround is to reinstall GRUB using a chroot: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Grub2#METHOD%203%20-%20CHROOT
<cjwatson> jussi: I was planning to have another go at reproducing that bug shortly
<jussi> cjwatson: ok, Im happy to provide any info you like to ask for - Im just not sure what you want
<jussi> hang on, let me join from the other PC
<cjwatson> I don't think it needs further information
<cjwatson> I just hadn't initially realised that trying to reinstall GRUB from a live CD without chrooting was how to trigger it
<jussio1> ok >(
<jussio1> cjwatson: could you pass that link again ?
<cjwatson> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Grub2#METHOD%203%20-%20CHROOT
<jussio1> cjwatson: ahh, just saw your other comment. no probs. if theres anything you need let me know.  :) And thank you for the workaround.
<jussio1> hrm, grub recheck gives me a warning. Is it related?
<jussio1> /usr/sbin/grub-setup: warn: Sector 33 is already in use by FlexNet; avoiding it.  This software may cause boot or other problems in future.  Please ask its authors not to store data in the boot track.
<cjwatson> dupondje: please check with the person listed as touched-it-last on merges.ubuntu.com before proposing merges/syncs
<cjwatson> dupondje: that's the protocol to avoid duplicated effort
<dupondje> cjwatson: I forgot indeed :( my excuses.
<lucidfox> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/gringo <-- Is "package name is an ethnic slur" a valid reason for rejection? :)
<pitti> cjwatson: ok for me to do a new-source sync round, or are you going to?
<cjwatson> pitti: go ahead, but perhaps wait until LP comes out of read-only mode
<pitti> oh, is it still? I have done archive admin stuff for some 10 minutes now
<pitti> (NEW and NBS cleanup mainly)
<cjwatson> topic still says it is; personally I wouldn't want to try inserting stuff into queues in RO mode
<pitti> sure, I'll wait then; not urgent at all
<Laney> seems it's RW again; at least the banner is gone and I can push
<seb128> the ui doesn't have the readonly warning and people do bug updates, I just got a bunch of emails
<cjwatson> ah, ok
<cjwatson> pitti: go ahead then :)
<cjwatson> @pilot in
* udevbot changed the topic of #ubuntu-devel to: LP Down/ReadOnly 0800-0930 UTC | Ubuntu 11.04 released! | Oneiric Archive: OPEN | Development of Ubuntu (not support, not app development) | #ubuntu for support and general discussion for dapper ->  natty | #ubuntu-app-devel for application development on Ubuntu | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment | See #ubuntu-bugs for http://bit.ly/lv8soi | Patch Pilots: cjwatson
<pitti> "udevbot"? nice :)
<doko> jhunt_, SpamapS: please could you take care of the libnih merge?
<doko> SpamapS: same for sysvinit
<jhunt_> doko: I'll discuss with SpamapS, but don't think I have the relevant "super-powers" yet.
<cjwatson> you would need sponsorship, but you can prepare the merge as you would prepare an upload
<cjwatson> if it needs a merge rather than a verbatim sync, that is
<cjwatson> hopefully we don't have much in the way of Ubuntu-specific changes to libnih?
<kzmdmzk> Hi, is anyone able to comment on the status of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NotifyOSD#Treatment%20of%20hardware%20device%20detection ? Specifically if it's being worked on/completed/etc.
<jhunt_> cjwatson: merges.u.c is just showing a conflict in debian/control.
<cjwatson> the first thing to figure out is whether there are any Ubuntu-specific changes we need to keep, or whether we can just take the package from Debian
<cjwatson> if the latter, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SyncRequestProcess
<jhunt_> right, thx.
<cjwatson> requestsync --lp can do most of the work for you there
* mthaddon changed the topic of #ubuntu-devel to: Ubuntu 11.04 released! | Oneiric Archive: OPEN | Development of Ubuntu (not support, not app development) | #ubuntu for support and general discussion for dapper ->  natty | #ubuntu-app-devel for application development on Ubuntu | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment | See #ubuntu-bugs for http://bit.ly/lv8soi | Patch Pilots: cjwatson
 * pitti does a process-removals run during the new-source sync/fail/fix iterations
<doko> tkamppeter_: please could you take care of the ghostscript merge?
<pitti> dpm: FYI, reenabled maverick-updates cron job and added natty-updates
<abhinav-> pitti: I asked the question on #Gtk+ about using pycairo , I think we struck a dead end here. http://paste.ubuntu.com/603204/
<dpm> thanks pitti, I'll have to have a look at any changes necessary to the exports schedule. I'll try to get it done before UDS.
<pitti> abhinav-: erk, that sounds like "fun" :/
<abhinav-> :-/
<abhinav-> pitti: where can I find the gir-1.2 files ? /usr/share/gir-1.0 has all gir1.0 versions
<pitti> abhinav-: those are the correct files; unfortunately the binary packages are misnamed
<abhinav-> oh
<pitti> abhinav-: the binary packages should be called typelib-1.2-foo, not gir-1.2-*
<pitti> since they neither ship the gir files (these are in -dev) nor are related to the gir format specification 1.0
<pitti> 1.2 is the binary ABI of the typelibis
<abhinav-> ah alright. /me looks
<doko> slangasek: doing the perl merge now
<pitti> abhinav-: i. e. *.gir files are mostly for human inspection, *.typelibs are a compiled form of them which are actually used by pygobject, seed, vala, etc.
<abhinav-> pitti: yes, so I wanted to look at Gdk-3.0.gir , but /usr/share/gir-1.0/ has Gdk-2.0.gir instead
<pitti> abhinav-: you need libgtk3-dev
<pitti> which ships the gtk 3 gir
<abhinav-> oh
 * abhinav- installs
<pitti> abhinav-: the typelibs are needed at runtime, but the .gir isn't, so we ship that in the -dev package
<abhinav-> pitti: that makes sense. thanks :)
<BlackZ> cjwatson: re curl: yes, I will file a bug for the MIR
<cjwatson> BlackZ: thanks
<lamont> more ppa builders are in bound (installing as of a few min ago)
 * soren hugs lamont
<lamont> and sometime this morning, I expect that I'll be putting the armel builders on manual for a bit while I play with gcc-4.6 rebuild
<ScottK> This is the fix for the apt problem?
<cjwatson> oh good
<lamont> ScottK: the gcc-4.6 problem, yes.
<ScottK> Great.
<soren> lamont: How many build servers are you adding back?
<lamont> soren: all the ones we stole for the release
<soren> lamont: W00t!
<lamont> then once I get that mess built, I get to mass giveback the failures on oneiric/arm after rebuilding chroot tarballs for everything
<abhinav-> pitti: it looks depressingly hopeless to do in Python. next best options are to use 1) xwd and xwud , 2) add this code in gnome-screenshot
<pitti> abhinav-: I forgot, what was the problem with using xprop?
<pitti> abhinav-: _NET_WM_PID seems to give you the pid
<abhinav-> pitti: xprop doesn't provide screenshot related features ?
<pitti> abhinav-: ah, right
<abhinav-> pitti: xwd does capture the screenshot but in some other format that can be viewed by xwud
<pitti> hmm, new-source run done; should I really spam oneiric-changes with 865 packages?
<pitti> cjwatson: ^ what did you use to do in the past?
<cjwatson> I think I considered those mass syncs and used NOMAILS=-M
<cjwatson> (NOMAILS=-M flush-syncs)
<pitti> I agree; I just seem to remember a time when these got announced
<soren> I'm not sure I understand why you'd filter them.
<soren> Yes, it's a lot of info, but why is that a problem?
<pitti> hm, it seems someone actually deleted my older syncs from a few hours ago
<pitti> Riddell, jdstrand: ^ any idea what happened to them? I only have the new syncs starting with 's' left
<cjwatson> that's very careless of somebody!
<cjwatson> if the syncs directory has content, LEAVE IT ALONE
<cjwatson> soren: *shrug* caused complaints in the past - so the probably-unwritten policy is now that we send announcements for manually-requested syncs
<pitti> it took some two hours to get it to that state..
<cjwatson> pitti: they might be in ~lp_queue/sync-queue/ somewhere?
<cjwatson> if somebody deleted it more permanently than that, make them spend two hours redoing the state :-P
<pitti> well, it wasn't human hours, but still
<ScottK> Hand them a pencil and paper and tell them to get to work.
<pitti> ./rejected/pitti-20110504-123857/ looks a bit weird, but far from complete
 * pitti shrugs and runs it again; at least I have the list of the successful ones now, so should be much quicker
<Riddell> not me, I'm not doing archive admin this cycle
<seb128> not me either
<pitti> ah, seems someone actually flushed them, instead of delete
<cjwatson> that's bad form too - since some sync runs require -M and some don't
<cjwatson> I don't see them on oneiric-changes though
<pitti> at least NEW is full of them, and I mostly emptied them this morning
<pitti> but it still doesn't have everything
<pitti> very confusing
<pitti> anyway, at this point it's easiest to flush what we have and re-run it tomorrow
<lamont> doko: 4.6 building on actinidiaceae
<cjwatson> pitti: let me know when you're done - I'd like to do a regular sync run
<pitti> q -M -e accept $(</tmp/pitti/newdone)
<pitti> running that, then it's cleared for you; I'll ping you
<cjwatson> ta
<seb128> cjwatson, pitti: syncs done without a -b don't email the list I think
<pitti> ah, that'd make sense; I explicitly specified -M to be sure
<jdstrand> pitti: I have not been on cocoplum today
<Laney> pitti: is 'ghc' one of the packages you are syncing?
 * Laney trembles
<pitti> Laney: it failed because it overlaps with our ghc6 source
<pitti> Laney: so far I only synced packages which don't conflict
<Laney> oh, ok
<pitti> we have to wade through the others step by step
<Laney> that's intentional
<pitti> I haven't checked yet, but presunably we need to remove ghc6 and sync ghc
<Laney> no, ghc needs ghc6 to bootstrap
<Laney> might need some manual hackery though if debian already switched the BDs
<Laney> yeah i'll need to add ghc6, never mind
<cjwatson> BlackZ: thanks for fixing the rsyslog issues.  Could you tell me what testing you've done with this merge?  It didn't look like the original patch had been tested.
<pitti> oh, someone works on rsyslog?
<pitti> I just tested my merge, and it's completely broken
<cjwatson> pitti: bug 775703
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 775703 in rsyslog (Ubuntu) "Please merge rsyslog 5.8.0-1 (main) from debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/775703
<pitti> ah, I didn't check bugs, as I was TIL
<cjwatson> BlackZ: why didn't you ask the touched-it-last person before starting?
<pitti> anyway, the only kind of log output that I get with that version is "imklog 5.8.0, log source = /proc/kmsg started." and a complaint about /dev/xconsole, over and over again
<pitti> but no real messages
<pitti> it's not the priv dropping, and the blurb about xconsole in the configuratino is also harmless
<dupondje> cjwatson: thanks for the info :)
<BlackZ> cjwatson: I didn't do an extensive test; also, I'm the last person who merged it so I thought nobody was merging it. Is it broke for you, btw?
<cjwatson> BlackZ: the protocol is that the last person who *uploaded* it should be assumed to be dealing with the merge unless you check
<cjwatson> this is at the top of https://merges.ubuntu.com/main.html
<cjwatson> "If you are not the previous uploader, ask the previous uploader before doing the merge. This prevents two people from doing the same work."
<cjwatson> that was Martin, not you, in this case
<cjwatson> BlackZ: the reason I'm concerned isn't because I've tested it myself, but because (a) the first posted debdiff was broken (b) the last time you merged rsyslog, in natty, it completely broke logging (c) rsyslog is kind of important.  I hope you understand my caution :-)
<cjwatson> also, you actually weren't the last person to merge it, I was
<cjwatson> if pitti's having problems, it seems reasonable to find out whether there's something different between your merge and his; if both are broken, we should try to resolve it before uploading
<cjwatson> dupondje: BTW, I have no problem with people taking some of the installer merge workload off my shoulders; if it's done with our existing bzr branches, though, it means that it could decrease my workload rather than increasing it :-)
<cjwatson> (I don't mind a temporary increase in the cause of training folks)
<BlackZ> cjwatson: right, you're the last person who merged it; sorry, I assumed I was. Yeah, I should have contacted the T.I.L person before merging it. I will be happy to work with pitti if he has problem with the rsyslog merge (in case the debdiffs are the same)
<BlackZ> cjwatson: and yeah, I understand your caution ;)
<cjwatson> I think pitti is wrestling with why it's broken now - I'll hand over to him
<cjwatson> @pilot out
* udevbot changed the topic of #ubuntu-devel to: Ubuntu 11.04 released! | Oneiric Archive: OPEN | Development of Ubuntu (not support, not app development) | #ubuntu for support and general discussion for dapper ->  natty | #ubuntu-app-devel for application development on Ubuntu | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment | See #ubuntu-bugs for http://bit.ly/lv8soi | Patch Pilots:
<BlackZ> cjwatson: thanks for your reviewing ;)
<jcastro> jjohansen: Reminder: your apparmor session is on for 1700UTC today
<jjohansen> jcastro: okay thanks
<cjwatson> pitti: syncs is empty now - are you finished?
<pitti> cjwatson: ah, it's done (sorry, left it in the background
<cjwatson> np
<lynxman> hey guys, anybody knows in which conditions does a preinst script triggers?
<lynxman> I have a metapackage that points to another metapackage (with the preinst script) and script doesn't run
<cjwatson> lynxman: it's always called immediately before unpacking a package.  I think I might be able to answer you better if I saw an example
<lynxman> cjwatson: sure! it's a bit of a chain effect, kinda related to what we were talking yesterday :)
<lynxman> I'm deploying a machine in UEC, it starts with no hostname in /etc/hosts
<lynxman> just to test a small preinst check I did
<lynxman> so I install the metapackage that depends on a bunch of real packages
<lynxman> and I add a preinst script to the metapackage to check that the hostname is in /etc/hosts if not add it and point to 127.0.1.1
<lynxman> I just tried the package now and it doesn't do it
<cjwatson> adding non-trivial code to a metapackage makes it technically not really a metapackage any more; but anyway, that's incidental
<cjwatson> can you provide a pointer to the package, or post the preinst on paste.ubuntu.com, or something?
<dob1> hi, i have installed sun jdk on 11.04, now i want to install groovy but ubuntu want to install openjdk and it doesn't use sun-jdk that is just installed, this is a bug?
<lynxman> cjwatson: yes, was doing that right now :)
<lynxman> cjwatson: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/603277/
<cjwatson> lynxman: hm, any chance of just putting a copy of the whole source package somewhere?
<lynxman> cjwatson: it's actually in a ppa, let me get you the link
<cjwatson> that's the sort of thing one would normally do in postinst rather than preinst, BTW - there doesn't seem any particular need to run it before unpacking files
<cjwatson> (but again, that's sort of incidental)
<cjwatson> rule of thumb - only use preinst or pre-depends if you absolutely have to and know why :-)
<lynxman> cjwatson: the thing is that it's needed for a package to deploy properly, otherwise I get a "package couldn't install properly" and the whole process falls off
<lynxman> cjwatson: I've been devoring the packaging guide lately :)
<cjwatson> that suggests a different problem.  deployment should not require using preinst for this AFAICS.
<cjwatson> unless it's required by one of the dependencies of this metapackage, in which case this code should be in that dependency, not in the metapackage
<lynxman> cjwatson: yeah completely agreed, it's just a temporary stopgap measure
<cjwatson> generally, if the user decides to install all the dependencies of a metapackage manually and not the metapackage itself, the system should work the same way (except for later upgrade resolution)
<mdeslaur> slangasek: could #776030 be multiarch related?
<lynxman> cjwatson: yeah
<lynxman> cjwatson: I've submitted a bug already for the affected packages
<lynxman> cjwatson: rabbitmq-server and collectd
<lynxman> cjwatson: source in https://launchpad.net/~orchestra/+archive/ppa/+packages
<stgraber> slangasek: mind if I take the ucf merge (you are the last uploader for a multiarch fix) ?
<cjwatson> lynxman: which source package am I looking at here?  orchestra?
<lynxman> cjwatson: yes
<cjwatson> lynxman: looks fine - try putting 'set -x' on the second line of the preinst, which should give you a trace when you install it
<lynxman> cjwatson: cool, will try that, thanks :)
<cjwatson> lynxman: incidentally, replace  grep -qs "127.0.1.1\W"  with  grep -qs "127\.0\.1\.1\W"  for greater accuracy
<lynxman> cjwatson: ooh excellent, thanks :)
<cjwatson> lamont: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/rootskel/1.95ubuntu1/+buildjob/2518416 "i386 build" ... "Successfully built on zirconium (lpia)"
<cjwatson> lamont: do the buildds need manual relabelling?
<lamont> bah
<lamont> thar
<stgraber> ScottK: for bug 436936 I see that the kdebase-workspace that was in proposed has now been copied to -updates so I'm going to upload the upstart fix to natty-proposed. Same fix will be in Oneiric with the next kdebase-workspace upload (as it's in the bzr branch).
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 436936 in kdebase-workspace (Ubuntu Natty) "gdm upstart job checks /proc/cmdline for single user mode, won't start on post-boot runlevel change" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/436936
<lamont> cjwatson: we repurposed zirconium because we hatez the lpia
<lamont> or something like that
<ScottK> stgraber: Great.  Thanks.
<lamont> hardy is the only release left that has lpia, so we gave it one biulder, instead of 2
<lamont> zirconium's description corrected
<cjwatson> ta
<cjwatson> I'm all in favour of lpia->i386 builder movement, certainly
<cjwatson> wow, somebody was brave enough to merge perl?
 * cjwatson applauds doko.  Hopefully we can get through the perl transition quickly ...
<Laney> 5.12?
<pitti> this currently causes quite some "fun" in unstable indeed
 * Laney is scared
<cjwatson> yes
<cjwatson> ah well, plenty of time
<Laney> the binNMUs appear to be going through and making stuff work again
<Laney> but we don't have such luxury
<pitti> we have some scripts to do no-change mass source uploads, though
<Laney> yeah, almost as nice
<ScottK> pitti: Here's the Debian binNMU list: http://release.debian.org/~jcristau/perl5.12-wb-commands.txt
<ScottK> (for the perl transition)
 * Laney thinks an Ubuntu ben instance would be nice
<geser> who/what is "ben"?
<Laney> debian's transition tracker
<Laney> http://release.debian.org/transitions/html/perl.html
 * cjwatson changes MoM to try to run every half an hour rather than every hour - its runtime is still substantial (so many runs will fail to acquire the lock), but hopefully that'll make it slightly more responsive
<psusi> cjwatson: is there a grub command you can use to hex dump a given sector?
<cjwatson> psusi: hexdump
<cjwatson> so e.g. hexdump -s 1024 -n 512 (hd0)  # dump third sector of (hd0)
<doko> Laney, pitti, cjwatson: please wait with "binNMU"s until armel is usable again (should be tonight/tomorrow)
<Laney> doko: usable how?
<psusi> cjwatson: this is odd... the two sectors it is reading, one from hd0, and one from hd0,msdos1, are aliases of each other... offset by the 2048 starting sector of the partition... what's the dprintf format code for grub_uint_64_t?
<doko> Laney: apt fails
<Laney> oh, still that?
<Laney> ack
<psusi> or better yet, a command to print what grub thinks the size of the disk and partition are?
<doko> gnahh, and perl ftbfs on amd64, although it did build locally :-/
<cjwatson> psusi: PRIxGRUB_UINT64_T
<cjwatson> (or PRIu...)
<cjwatson> (er, hopefully it's clear, but that's a macro - use token-pasting)
<psusi> cjwatson: I think grub may have the wrong size for the disk... it seems to think that the partition does indeed end at the end of the disk
<psusi> i.e. partition start + partition size = disk size when looking at ls -l
<cjwatson> you're probably stuck with decoding the partition table by hand and digging into the partition table code
<cjwatson> partition tables are pretty simple to decode though; a bug there would surprise me
<psusi> aye
<slangasek> stgraber: ucf> be my guest, thanks :)
<slangasek> mdeslaur: 776030> hmm, looks like debsums needs updating for multiarch
<mdeslaur> slangasek: are you updating the bug, or shall I?
<slangasek> mdeslaur: I will
<mdeslaur> slangasek: cool, thanks
<psusi> cjwatson: yea, something is wrong with the hd size detection... ls -l in grub lists it as 488396800 sectors, but fdisk says it is 488397168.. that shorter size aliases the end of the partition with the end of the disk
<psusi> cjwatson: think of anything that changed since maverick that could have caused that?
<cjwatson> you're the lucky one who gets to debug :-)
<cjwatson> nope
<psusi> le sigh
<cjwatson> lots of code churn since maverick in general
 * psusi starts reading over the disk code
<Chipzz> ugh
<Chipzz> am I the only one who feels like handing out a gigantic punch in the face to Lennaert?
<Chipzz> http://lwn.net/Articles/441328/rss
<ohsix> yes?
<ohsix> he's been very clear about proper session/seat support
<Chipzz> ohsix: "how they intend to expand systemd to take over many of the functions currently handled by ConsoleKit.". This means if your distro has apps using CK, all of a sudden systemd becomes mandatory. And given the amount of effort canonical has put into upstart...
<ohsix> eh
<ohsix> define use
<ohsix> cuz you can ask it when a seat changes ownership and which is the current user, that can be done with a simple wrapper; the other stuff it does when seats switch is something else
<ohsix> theres a lot more it will subsume than consolekit
<lynxman> negronjl o/
<negronjl> o/ lynxman
<Chipzz> ohsix: and you think that is a good thing?
<ohsix> since i take it you think it's not i'll be keeping to myself
<Chipzz> init turning into the kitchen sink and being locked down to one choice does not look like something to be enthusiastic about...
<ohsix> it staying the way it is an not being able to do anything with it is also great
<ohsix> it's not like the other init systems are going away
<ohsix> you could make the same argument against upstart btw
<Chipzz> no you couldn't
<ohsix> yea you could, why mess with sysvinit it works!11111
<Chipzz> no you couldn't
<Chipzz> because that's not my argument
<ohsix> the actual "init" part is small, the part as pid 1 is small
<ohsix> it's the only thing you could be arguing, because it's not turning into a kitchen sink
<Chipzz> and upstart still performs the same functions as the initial init
<Chipzz> starting/stopping processes
<ohsix> correction, init doesn't start or stop processes, it runs jobs
<ohsix> jobs may or may not start or stop processes
<ohsix> this is pretty OT but i dont' mind discussing it elsewhere until i have to leave :] (40 minutes or so)
<Chipzz> OT? you think?
<ohsix> yea, this is -devel
<Chipzz> the way I read it, systemd replaces CK and becomes non-optional. since you can only have one init, upstart has to go. Canonical has invested largely in upstart. I don't see how this is OT here?
<ohsix> systemd can replace ck, doesn't mean it has to
<Chipzz> incorrect
<ohsix> and that part isn't part of the "init", you can use systemd for init and everything else for what it does already, you can't have 2 things be pid 1 however
<Chipzz> read again
<Chipzz> http://lwn.net/Articles/441328/rss
<ohsix> read the documentation
<Chipzz> On the way want to fix multi-seat support properly and running services outside of a session, and we will get rid of CK.
<cjwatson> that doesn't say that somebody is going to come and destroy all copies of consolekit with fire
<ohsix> theres nothing saying ck has to change seat permissions either, it just does right now
<Chipzz> cjwatson: might as well
<cjwatson> if it's still necessary, we could continue maintaining it
<ohsix> ck doesn't do a lot but let listeners know when seats change and list current users with respect to multiseat
<Chipzz> cjwatson: I'm actually quite surprised I'm the only one talking about this here
<cjwatson> (I'm not going to make technical decisions on the basis of a news article, however competent, but the option is clearly there)
<ohsix> just like upower and udisks dont' do a ton, but they sharded off and do one thing well
<ohsix> Chipzz: it's not a threat or anything
<Chipzz> ohsix: and that's sth systemd doesn't do: do one thing well
<ohsix> Chipzz: i didn't mean to imply it did, i was talking about consolekit and what happened after hal
<cjwatson> Chipzz: it seems clear to me that there is no cause for panic, and that phrasing it as "systemd [...] becomes non-optional" is alarmism
<ohsix> but that notwitshtanding as long as systemd can give you the output of the ck-* tools and the subscription for seat changes, does ck really go anywhere? it might not need to present it in that form in the end and even ck can change to suit; that's just how it looks now
<ohsix> same goes for anything it'd purport to "replace", theres a lot of things it could subsume and use data it already has to do it better and with less resources but it doesn't mean an all or nothing gambit
<ohsix> and it doesn't mean you have to use systemd at all in the end; it'll just look increasingly more like the better choice as time goes on
<ohsix> lennart thinks and has written as much that there should be one arbiter for seats/sessions, even replacing user level session services like the scripts that start a gnome session, all in the name of managing resources where they're best utilized
<ohsix> you can't put everyone in their own cgroup's cleanly with consolekit for example, but if your user session is started with systemd then all it's resource control tools with respect to cgroups are in effect, and they have autogenerated rule templates for handling that stuff
<ohsix> even if upstart was my personal baby i'd bin it in a minute if it started looking deprecated, not to suggest what anyone else should do; if you're that firm on it you're more on the ideology of something than the fit-for-purposeness when there are better options
<Chipzz> ohsix: what bothers me most is Lennaerts attitude... going from "I know better than all of you, and I have no interest whatsoever in cooperating with anyone" to "My way or the highway" now
<directhex> Chipzz, that's hardly new or unexpected, surely?
<Chipzz> that may be a slight exaggeration, but not by much I think
<slangasek> ohsix: Lennart is not in a position to deprecate upstart, however :)
<Chipzz> directhex: given Lennaerts past arrogant attitude, I wouldn't say it's unexpected, no
<cjwatson> it would be appropriate to at least spell his name correctly
<Chipzz> ohsix: and no, I don't buy the technical superiority argument either... I haven't tried systemd yet, but from what I have read about it it appears to be non-trivial to grasp
<Chipzz> s/Lennaert/Lennart/ :)
<cjwatson> barry: sponsored that python2.7 maverick change
<barry> cjwatson: awesome, thanks.  i'll test it as soon as it lands in -proposed
<Chipzz> I'm not sure if exposing cgroups is valuable at this point for example; it's a relatively new feature, and while I can see the value in it, I think lots of ppl are not yet familiar with it, and I think it has the potential to confuse a lot of ppl (what are cgroups and why should I care?)
<Sweetshark> cjwatson, Chipzz, directhex, slangasek: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTdUmlGxVo0 <- flame on.
<Sweetshark> Lennart kills/hijacks the talk in approx. 15 minutes.
 * psusi still doesn't get what ConsoleKit *IS*.. the description on the web site and initial email announcement just aren't conveying it to me
<cjwatson> hah, first thing that happens when you boot a maverick desktop CD is a prompt offering an upgrade to natty
<cjwatson> I thought we'd disabled that on the live CD ...
<stgraber> kees: were you planning on oding the rdesktop merge or can I take it ?
<Sweetshark> psusi: AFAIK it is the stuff that lets you multiplex for example audio between your X11 session and a VT (e.g. you get the audio in the VT if and only if you are logged in as the same user as the running X11 session)
<cjwatson> we also use it in conjunction with policykit to find out about the user currently at the console
<kees> stgraber: go for it! :)
<Chipzz> Sweetshark: tbh the speaker does seem unprepared and does seem to get facts wrong
<cjwatson> and grant them appropriate permissions
<psusi> cjwatson: yea, I was annoyed by that last night...
<Sweetshark> Chipzz: yes he does, Lennart is right on most of the points as discussed.
<stgraber> cjwatson: Is there any way to teach merge-o-matic that a package has a diffferent packaging in Debian and Ubuntu ? ltsp and ldm have completely different packaging so there isn't much point in them appearing in the list.
<stgraber> I'm working with Vagrant to try to reduce the delta when possible but we really aren't quite there yet (as LTSP is extremely distro dependent)
<Sweetshark> Chipzz: Interestingly enough, I still learned quite a lot in that talk. (The most important one: dont ever start a flamewar with Lennart unprepared.)
<Chipzz> Sweetshark: you were the speaker?
<Sweetshark> Chipzz: no, god beware! it hurt enough to watch that.
<cjwatson> stgraber: ltsp has been blacklisted for ages and that merges.u.c entry dates from 2009, so I've nuked it (should disappear from the index at the next run)
<cjwatson> stgraber: for ldm, the appropriate thing to do would probably be to add it to the sync blacklist, which also means that it should never get autosynced.  does that sound right?
<ogra_> stgraber, wow, kudos for attacking that
<stgraber> cjwatson: yep
<stgraber> ogra_: yeah, I try to at least look at it once every cycle :) I still need to work on changing the source format and switching to dh7. Should be easier merging vagrant's packaging after that.
<cjwatson> stgraber: done, then - again, will disappear at the next sync
<cjwatson> er, next run
<stgraber> cjwatson: thanks
<pmatulis> hi, what happened to the libpam-heimdal package for releases > 10.04 ?
<cjwatson> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libpam-heimdal/+publishinghistory and click the first expander triangle
<pmatulis> cjwatson: hmm, thx
<cjwatson> that's kind of opaque, what actually happened is that it's now generated by the libpam-krb5 source package
<cjwatson> oho, which was sync-blacklisted because it overwrote libpam-heimdal and we needed to figure out what to do ...
 * cjwatson removes that blacklist entry and tries again
<cjwatson> pmatulis: thanks for bringing that up - it should return to oneiric shortly
<pmatulis> cjwatson: i'm looking at bug #663319
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 663319 in libpam-heimdal (Ubuntu) "Need rebuild for 10.10" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/663319
<pmatulis> gee, someone should edit that title
<cjwatson> I don't know whether we can do anything for stable releases, since a substantial upgrade of libpam-krb5 would likely cause trouble
<pmatulis> rats
<slangasek> mind you, heimdal is also in universe
<cjwatson> libpam-krb5 isn't ...
<slangasek> so building libpam-krb5 and libpam-heimdal from the same source in SRU wouldn't work
<cjwatson> yes, something will have to be done in order to actually build new libpam-krb5 in oneiric
<cjwatson> since it now build-depends on heimdal-multidev
<cjwatson> maybe we should just promote heimdal?  I'm not familiar with the arguments there
<slangasek> well, it's a second implementation of a large and security sensitive software suite
<ohsix> Chipzz: that's not his attitude
<ohsix> Chipzz: and he's not speaking from an unreasoned position either, he's spent a lot of time thinking about the problems and how to do it better
<ohsix> he's not arrogant, he just knows what he's talking about and has a lot of detractors that don't even know the first thing about what they apparently disagree with
<ohsix> also you don't need to be sold on cgroups, if you don't care that much you probably shouldn't care at all; read stuff from Documentation/ as it's added or forget about it, nobody is going to keep coming around trying to convince you
<psusi> Sweetshark: how so?
<Sweetshark> psusi: how so what? It hurt to watch that as it is just quite embarrasing for the speaker.
<psusi> Sweetshark: oh yes, that.. how so CK/PulseAudio/authorization
<ohsix> Sweetshark: i lol'd when i saw that session when it was posted to the website
<ohsix> Sweetshark: you didn't even really need to see the video to know how it  had gone down, lennart was the only thing that made it worthwhile
<ohsix> and he was affable, even if he did sort of hijack the guy; can't let that stuff fly if you personally know better
<psusi> I didn't watch that whole video because it became too painful, but I couldn't quite figure out what the speaker was complaining about... he seemed to be meandering around aimlessly... the major theme I could identify was that he doesn't like the new plug and play world we live in because his config files broke... or something...
<Sweetshark> ohsix: well, I saw the submitted paper and thought: That could be very good or very bad. It turned out to be both in a way.
<ohsix> his brief signalled that he really didn't know anything about what he was going to talk about, aside from him not liking them
<ohsix> reminded me a lot of the people that like OSS because they've convinced themselves that it sounds better, or something as equally silly to cover their rather embarassing attachment
<psusi> and what was with the complaints about gdm starting a "full" gnome session?  what else would you expect the gnome session manager to do?
<ohsix> psusi: it used to not do that
<psusi> the gnome session manager did not used to manage a gnome session?
<ohsix> gdm before 1.28 was a separate application that tried to do accessibility a little, extra login options a little; etc
<Sweetshark> psusi: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Desktop/FastUserSwitching#Device_Ownership and http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Desktop/FastUserSwitching#Refuse_Service_To_Inactive_Sessions render some good things CK intends to do.
<ohsix> no, gdm still started sessions back then, but it wasn't accessible and it was its own huge code base that basically just caused more problems for them every time something was added; it doubled security coverage and it really had to draw a lot of attention by itself
<psusi> and now?
<ohsix> accessible = on screen keyboard & screen readers, the new gdm can have applets for connecting to wifi and stuff on there too; if you need it
<ohsix> now it's a full session and you canput anything on the login screen you need to, without adding code to do it to gdm
<ohsix> gdm was essentially a reimplimentation of half the stuff the desktop proper already had to be supported & do
<ohsix> so they binned it for the code that got more attention & was already reviewed for security and stuff instead of special handling it all in gdm with code that's not used anywhere near as much as the stuff in the live session
<psusi> ohh... so it used to be an application that mainly handled login and did a few other things before starting the session, and now it actually is a session, just one more lightly configured than the one yuo get when you login?
<ohsix> well it's not a session like the other things are sessions, but yea
<ohsix> gdm used to duplicate the accessibility stuff and other things already in the desktop session with a bunch of stuff that just existed in gdm
<Sweetshark> i think this is a classical admin/coder conflict in a way: The admin feared any package updated could break not only some session details, but the login, rendering his infra dead, while the coder worries more about the code duplication.
<ohsix> that guy admitted he was adminning gentoo machines though
<Sweetshark> keep in mind the guy was using gentoo for some bigger university rollout.
<ohsix> which means he's wasting a lot of someones time, effort and money
<psusi> so what?  there is a list of programs to run when at the login screen, and once you login, there is another list of programs that get run depending on which desktop you chose?  is the first set still running when the second is?  how are they kept separate?
<ohsix> being paid to play around has its merits though
<psusi> I was going to say... admining an entire network of gentoo machines?  going around to each of hundreds of computers and compiling every new package?  wtf?
<ohsix> psusi: i can't remember if it switches servers or the user session subsumes the login one
<Sweetshark> ohsix: I think when it came up, gentoo actually brought a lot of stability to all distro by finding and triaging some weird gcc-bugs etc ...
<ohsix> Sweetshark: shrug, ffmpeg thought they were a major gcc driver, but they really hate on it when it "breaks"
<ohsix> every strange thing that happens it's the first thing to blame and they don't always get around to ruling it out
<Sweetshark> psusi: nah, you would compile on one machine and distribute only binaries.
<ohsix> psusi: i think the person that logged in takes over the spawned server, and during fast user switching a new one is spawned with the login window, and if someone logs in to an existing session it switches to the existing server
<psusi> so basically gdm reimplented all of this functionality and had its own weird config file this guy had set up the way he wanted, and all that went out the window in favor of running the proper applications to handle these various tasks, and he was butthurt that his old gdm config file was no good anymore?
<ohsix> last time i actually looked though it spawned a new server for each thing, but this was also on gentoo :[ so who knows if it was ideal or just good enough
<ohsix> psusi: basically
 * psusi shakes his head
<ohsix> psusi: oddly enough the new one is much more configurable
<ohsix> psusi: it's driven entirely by .desktop files like the proper sessions are, you can put whatever you want on the login screen
<ohsix> which is far more flexible, but harder to theme than the original
<ohsix> just about every gripe i've seen had to do with theming, there was a list of things you could toggle, like xdmcp; whcih afaik nobody bothered to reimpliment, and could be a problem for that guy
<psusi> makes sense... I remember some problems caused by a similar situation with the WinNT login... if yuo wanted to add anytyhing to it, like being able to connect to a network, you had to write a pita plugin dll for it...
<ohsix> that guy can't even think those terms though; if he could he would have just said what he misses about the software he prefers, and something could possibly be done about it, but it's just a chronic know nothing complainer
<ohsix> yea, GINA
<psusi> yea, that's it... heh, I almost had forgotten that stuff
<ohsix> gdm was sort of like that, this was in the fast user switching era too; i don't know what the tipping point was but it could have been that, someone eventually just said they weren't going to add new thing X because of the testing impact and stuff
<Sweetshark> ohsix: still he managed to get rather good introduction on the topics by Lennart in the classical http://bash.org/?152037 way
<ohsix> yea that guy had one thing goinf or him, he didn't go completely nuts when what he was saying was being challenged
<ohsix> re: that quote, people that really can answer anything less trivial than that will just be highly annoyed by that behaviour
<Sweetshark> ohsix: well, that mostly depends on the community of the project in question
<ohsix> i strive to fall on the side of not wasting peoples time, especially if i have a highly specific question with that special sort of rarified answer, those people are busy too :]
<stgraber> cjwatson: is merges.ubuntu.com having issues refreshing ? ltsp and ldm are still on there and so are the merges and syncs I did/requested today (ucf, nbd, libssh and rdesktop)
<cjwatson> stgraber: looks like a few things in sequence - firstly, it looks like archive.ubuntu.com isn't updating consistently at the moment, so it sometimes fails to update its pool
<cjwatson> stgraber: the most recent one is yet another unpack failure though
<cjwatson> er, apparently because there's a .dsc without its .debian.tar.gz, WTF
<maco> O_o
<cjwatson> it's fine on archive.u.c
<cjwatson> looks like another case of archive skew actually
<cjwatson> it should sort itself out eventually
<jdstrand> @pilot in
* udevbot changed the topic of #ubuntu-devel to: Ubuntu 11.04 released! | Oneiric Archive: OPEN | Development of Ubuntu (not support, not app development) | #ubuntu for support and general discussion for dapper ->  natty | #ubuntu-app-devel for application development on Ubuntu | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment | See #ubuntu-bugs for http://bit.ly/lv8soi | Patch Pilots: jdstrand
<Daniel0108> hi
<jdstrand> cjwatson: hey, so I am looking at https://code.launchpad.net/~3v1n0/ubuntu/natty/ca-certificates/digicert-certificates/+merge/57086. I disapproved this some time ago, but it looks like the merge request is still showing up in reports/sponsoring/ because of ubuntu-branches needing to review
<jdstrand> cjwatson: as you are a member of ubuntu-branches, I thought I'd ask you how I would get that off the sponsoring list
<pitti> kees, jdstrand: moved linux-source-2.6.15 (dapper) to -u/-s
<lamont> cjwatson: walking the archive for consistency
<kees> pitti: thanks!
<pitti> hopefully the last dapper one?
<jdstrand> it better be :P
<dupondje> jdstrand: could you check if https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/toonloop/+bug/775588 is done correctly ? :)
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 775588 in toonloop (Ubuntu) "Merge toonloop 2.0.6-1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,New]
<jdstrand> dupondje: sure! (it will be a few minutes however)
<dupondje> no prob!
<pitti> kees, jdstrand: releasing linux/karmic as well (not sure whether you still want an USN for the EOL release?)
<pitti> good night everyone
<cjwatson> jdstrand: can you not change the Status to Rejected, at the top?
<geser> can someone please give-back "hevea"? thanks
<jdstrand> cjwatson: no, there is nothing there I can manipulate
<jdstrand> cjwatson: I see 'Status: Needs review', but nothing else. The only yellow pencil I have is for my own review (which is Disapprove)
<jdstrand> goodnight pitti
<tcole> Hi, I've got a question about how I might go about fixing the python-storm package on Natty -- currently, it's not building extensions for python 2.7
<stgraber> geser: building now
<tcole> the python version bits in debian/ seem OK
<tcole> so I'm wondering what else I should be looking at
<RoAkSoAx> barry: ping
<barry> RoAkSoAx: hi
<RoAkSoAx> barry: howdy!! I was wondering if you could help me with this:
<RoAkSoAx> barry: bzr: ERROR: Inconsistency between source format and version: version is native, format is not native.
<RoAkSoAx> barry: that's what I get from doing bzr bd -S on a branch which I just switch to source format 3.0 (quilt)
<ScottK> tcole: It works fine here.  sudo apt-get install python-storm; python -c "import storm" works.
<stgraber> RoAkSoAx: what's your version number ?
<tcole> ScottK: it doesn't for me
<tcole> ScottK: are you on Natty?
<ScottK> I am.
<barry> RoAkSoAx: hmm.  i haven't seen that one before.  but it sounds like the version number in the changelog isn't correct.
<tcole> hm.
<RoAkSoAx> stgraber: barry ah!! Will try that. Thanks for the tip
<tcole> ScottK: lemme update/upgrade real quick and see if there's a new version
<ScottK> No.  There won't be.
<stgraber> barry: it's very likely because as the error says you're using a "native" version number (missing a -0ubuntu1 for Ubuntu or -1 if it's for Debian)
<stgraber> doh, RoAkSoAx ^
<tcole> ScottK: if you do: dpkg -L python-storm | grep 2.7
<tcole> ScottK: do you see anything?
<barry> stgraber: right! :)
<RoAkSoAx> stgraber: cool, yeah I think that's the thing. Though I was using release-build from kirkland's bikeshed when I stumble accross this error message
<RoAkSoAx> but makes sense
<ScottK> /usr/lib/python2.7
<ScottK> /usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages
<ScottK> /usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/storm
<ScottK> /usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/storm/cextensions.so
<kirkland> statik: hmm
<ScottK> tcole: ^^^
<kirkland> statik: sorry
<ScottK> Gotta run.  Back later.
<kirkland> RoAkSoAx: okay
<tcole> ScottK: interesting, I don't get those :(
<RoAkSoAx> stgraber: barry thanks though!
<barry> np!
<stgraber> np
<tcole> ScottK: ohh, I think I see the problem
<RoAkSoAx> kirkland: btw.. could you please make the tarball available in LP?
<kirkland> RoAkSoAx: oh, yeah
<kirkland> RoAkSoAx: powernap you mean?
<RoAkSoAx> kirkland: yep
<RoAkSoAx> thanks
<lamont> cjwatson: archive.u.c should be consistent, though the archive slew is more pronounced each time we trigger
<maxb> siretart: Hi. Re those extra bugtasks you opened on bug 681396 - is there any point in having them, since there is no point in fixing them without an installer respin, which doesn't happen for non-LTS ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 681396 in preseed (Ubuntu Natty) "auto url=autoserver fetches wrong preseed file (squeeze, not maverick/natty/oneiric)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/681396
<cjwatson> jdstrand: I've marked it as rejected now - didn't realise only ubuntu-branches members could do that
<cjwatson> lamont: thanks, I suppose it will get better through the cycle?
<jdstrand> cjwatson: thanks!
<slangasek> cjwatson: ah, so it's tied to ubuntu-branches, then... maybe that's a bug to be fixed, so uploaders can actually reject merge requests instead of perpetually deferring them as 'in progress'? :)
<ScottK> slangasek: cough .... postfix.
<cjwatson> I've filed bug 777442
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 777442 in Launchpad itself "Developers with upload permissions cannot reject MPs owned by ubuntu-branches" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/777442
 * cjwatson once again contemplates creating himself a fake identity and getting some degree of upload privileges for it, so he can see what happens if you don't have demigod Launchpad privileges
<doko> cjwatson, slangasek: hmm, I think I was a bit too eager with the perl bits ... see e.g. for a failing build: https://launchpadlibrarian.net/71096166/buildlog_ubuntu-oneiric-i386.liblocale-gettext-perl_1.05-6build1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<cjwatson> hm, that'll be fun to unpick
<cjwatson> $ change-override.py -c main -y libperl5.12
<cjwatson> that might help
<cjwatson> (possibly not much)
<doko> hmm, thought that q accept -c main would do that ...
<cjwatson> nope
<ScottK> cjwatson: When you have a moment, I'd appreciate it if you'd do the maverick-backports part of Bug #777143 too.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 777143 in maverick-backports "Please backport quassel 0.7.2-0ubuntu2 from natty to maverick and lucid" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/777143
<cjwatson> 'chdist apt-get oneiric-i386 -y -d --print-uris build-dep liblocale-gettext-perl' doesn't suggest any problems though
<cjwatson> ScottK: oh, yeah, I had backport-helper running for that one
<ScottK> Thanks.
<cjwatson> backports for the same package to multiple series have to be done in separate runs, for annoying reasons
<cjwatson> doko: at least I don't think it works that way
<ScottK> Is that something we can fix in the script or does it need addressing elsewhere?
<cjwatson> doko: I think you need queue override (or just the 'main' alias)
<cjwatson> ScottK: it's our shonky scripting - never quite been worth fixing
<ScottK> OK.
<cjwatson> one of those things that falls just below the must-automate threshold
<cjwatson> done now
<cjwatson> (the backport that is)
<doko> ok, will requeue these after it's available in main
<cjwatson> doko: I don't think that one has anything to do with libperl5.12; as far as I can see liblocale-gettext-perl's build-deps are satisfiable in main now
<cjwatson> though that build log is very recent ...
<ScottK> Thanks.
<cjwatson> IDGI
<doko> well, if perl-dev is not installable, ...
<doko> and even perl-base
<cjwatson> but liblocale-gettext-perl doesn't build-dep on perl-dev
<cjwatson> and perl-base doesn't depend on libperl5.12
<doko> ahh, for liblocale-gettext-perl, I added a b-d on perl (>= 5.12), so that perl is built first on armel
<cjwatson> I wonder why it held back perl at the start of that upgrade
<cjwatson> it's probably something else in the base system that needs it
<cjwatson> that versioned build-dep is probably why it's breaking, yes; OTOH, without that, it would build with perl 5.10
<cjwatson> hm, yeah, all the debconf dependencies.  I wonder how Debian did this
<cjwatson> looks like we need to get  libtext-charwidth-perl liblocale-gettext-perl libtext-iconv-perl  over at a minimum
<cjwatson> lamont: ^- any bright ideas?
<lamont> cjwatson: reading scrollbac
<lamont> cjwatson: by "get $pkglist over" what do you mean?
<cjwatson> lamont: built against perl 5.12
<lamont> cjwatson: you have SIP up?
<doko> I'll requeue the 7 rebuilds in about 40min
<lamont> doko: and they should build then?
<lamont> gcc-4.6/arm still isn't done
<doko> yes, seen. had it built on a dual core
<cjwatson> lamont: nope.  have mumble
 * infinity misses the "fun" of perl transitions.
<cjwatson> doko: hmm, you broke base-files
<cjwatson> Setting up base-files (6.3ubuntu1) ...
<cjwatson> cp: cannot stat `/usr/share/base-files/networks': No such file or directory
<cjwatson> looks like share/networks went missing?
<cjwatson> doko: fixing
<ohsix> .last -clear
<ohsix> er
<doko> cjwatson: ta! I assume lamont had to build by hand
<cjwatson> nah, base-files sorted itself out
<cjwatson> anything that doesn't actually need the new perl should still work
<cjwatson> lamont is preparing manual chroots to build the packages I listed above, though
<cjwatson> the approved answer (which Debian did too) is to swap out debconf-i18n for debconf-english in the chroots
<cjwatson> so we'll do that, get debconf-i18n installable again, then put the chroots back
<jdstrand> @pilot out
* udevbot changed the topic of #ubuntu-devel to: Ubuntu 11.04 released! | Oneiric Archive: OPEN | Development of Ubuntu (not support, not app development) | #ubuntu for support and general discussion for dapper ->  natty | #ubuntu-app-devel for application development on Ubuntu | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment | See #ubuntu-bugs for http://bit.ly/lv8soi | Patch Pilots:
<cjwatson> for values of "we" equal to "lamont" I guess
<lamont> cjwatson: heh
<doko> which I assume has to wait for armel
<lamont> doko: that would be my fantasy, yes
<cjwatson> well, the other architectures can go first, given that the build farm has to go onto manual anyway
<lamont> alternatively, we leave apt held while we do the perl transition
<cjwatson> which would let us bring x86 virtual builders back up faster
<cjwatson> so we'd just leave armel on manual until it's caught up enough
<doko> lamont: I assume you do not want to use hand-built gcc-4.6 and apt packages for these builds
<lamont> doko: so the currently extant gcc-4.6 is known bad?
<lamont> as in DO NOT USE EVAR!!? bad?
 * lamont bets on "yes"
<lamont> and aren't we all happy that it broke apt??
<doko> lamont: no, should be fine, see https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gcc-4.6/+bug/774175/comments/29
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 774175 in apt (Ubuntu Oneiric) "apt segfaults on armel in oneiric" [Critical,Confirmed]
<lamont> doko: so are you saying that if I hold apt (so that it works), then I can go ahead and do perl in parallel with the apt build?
<doko> lamont: we should be safe, if the testsuite doesn't fail
<lamont> ok
<lamont> set-builder --all --manual
 * lamont hugs the api
<lamont> cjwatson: all on manual other than the "virtual" armel
<cjwatson> why not those?
<lamont> they're not building oneiric
<cjwatson> ah
<doko> but I wouldn't like to use the current gcc for many other builds, and it should be finished in time with the perl build
<lamont> doko: not holding gcc-4.6, but I _AM_ afk for a few hours starting in about 20 minutes tops
<lamont> wife's birthday today.  MUST NOT MISS
<doko> heh, hope you already have a present besides your presence ;p
#ubuntu-devel 2011-05-05
<lamont> cjwatson: you have tarballs in place
<lamont> the only change from what they were an hour ago is that debconf-english is installed (removing debconf-i18n); armel has apt on hold
<lamont> cjwatson: and once you've fixed the world (which needs to include apt/armel being current and published...), you know how to get the untweaked tarballs back
<lamont> anything more before I run off?
<cjwatson> I think that's the lot
<cjwatson> enjoy the party
 * cjwatson does the rescore-auto-manual dance
<cjwatson> (i386 first, to see if it works)
<lamont> I'll hang out for a few more
<doko> do you just build the three, or all seven rebuilds?
<cjwatson> doko: what are the others
<cjwatson> ?
<doko> libhtml-parser-perl libtemplate-perl
<doko> libalgorithm-diff-xs-perl libxml-parser-perl
<cjwatson>  Package: libtext-iconv-perl Depends: libc6 (>= 2.1.3), perl-base (>= 5.12.3-6ubuntu3), perlapi-5.12.3
<cjwatson> looks good
<cjwatson> doko: I'm happy to give them all a try
<doko> thanks
<lamont> cjwatson: last call.
<cjwatson> lamont: this is looking good, go
<cjwatson> thanks a lot
<lamont> gone
<doko> hmm, don't see perl building on armel
<cjwatson> damn, I forgot that, sorry
<cjwatson> argh, I guess that means it requires another rebuild upload
<doko> ok, will prepare these
<cjwatson> just  libtext-iconv-perl libtext-charwidth-perl libtemplate-perl liblocale-gettext-perl libhtml-parser-perl
<cjwatson> the others haven't started building
<cjwatson> sorry about that
<doko> cjwatson: hmm, no, every upload has a b-d perl (>= 5.12)
<cjwatson> oh, good
<cjwatson> as soon as one fails I'll start perl building then
<doko> genip is idle
<cjwatson> so it is
<doko> and libtext-iconv-perl in dep-wait
<cjwatson> genip building perl now
<doko> not starting on the perl component mismatches now ...
<cjwatson> doko: looks like libxml-parser-perl needs libhtml-parser-perl to be published; I think it would be mostly OK to go ahead without it though?
<cjwatson> hm, intltool would still be uninstallable, which would break cdbs
<cjwatson> so I think I'll have to revise my estimate for OEM back a bit
<cjwatson> perl/armel apparently takes on the order of four hours normally, so I'm not going to wait up for it
<infinity> lamont: FWIW, my buildd chroots always used to use debconf-english and purge libirritating-unnecessary-perl* to avoid a lot of these problems.  I assume somewhere along the way, they got rebuilt instead of just continuously upgraded?
<infinity> lamont: (There's no real argument for debconf-i18n on chroot systems that only speak LANG=C anyway)
<infinity> cjwatson: ^^ see above to lamont, there's no real reason to put the debconf-i18n chroots back, IMO.  Mine never had it installed. :P
<cjwatson> hm, well, while I'm not entirely sure I disagree, I think I'll put them back and let lamont make that decision in his scripting
<cjwatson> (since I'd agreed a plan with lamont before he went off to party)
<cjwatson> you're probably right though, debconf-english is there for a reason
<cjwatson> lamont has a scorched-earth-rebuild-chroot script which he applies liberally - definitely no continuous upgrading going on
<cjwatson> all seven of those packages published on !armel - testing installability up to cdbs, and then I'll restore normality on all-but-armel
<cr3> packaging question: when building a python package, lintian is returning python-script-but-no-python-dep whereas my package debian/control depends on ${python:Depends} and debian/rules calls dh_pycentral on binary-indep. what might be missing?
<cr3> err, make that a "debian package containing python stuff", a "python package" could mean something else :/
<cjwatson> builders back on auto, except for armel
 * psusi slays another parted bug
<Pretto> who knows the icon name used by unity-launcher when the application icon is not found?
<Pretto> that question mark icon
<Pretto> found, twf :)
<j1mc> hey all, i submitted some blueprints for discussion at UDS a few days ago. i don't see them in the list of sessions for uds, though.
<j1mc> should i ping someone about this?
<stgraber> j1mc: if they haven't been approved for uds you'll need to ping the track lead
<j1mc> stgraber: thanks... is there a list of track leads somewhere?
<stgraber> j1mc: what's the specs ? the two I could find from your LP account are both approved (on LP's side)
<cr3> turns out that moving dh_pycentral nearer to dh_installdeb fixed the ${python:Depends} problem. ugh
<j1mc> stgraber: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-o-ubuntu-docs-strategy
<j1mc> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/community-o-ubuntu-docs-goals-oneiric
<stgraber> first one is: 2011-05-11 17:05..18:00 => kazincy
<stgraber> second one is: 2011-05-09 12:00..13:00 => jozsef
<stgraber> at least that's what I see in the DB, not sure if it's visible on summit.u.c
<j1mc> there are so many sessions... maybe i missed them.
<j1mc> i'll have a look
<stgraber> yep, both are there. Too many rooms/specs :)
<j1mc> stgraber: i would like to flip-flop them, if possible. would be better to discuss the strategy first, and then discuss the 11.10 goals.
<j1mc> do you know where i could direct that request?
<stgraber> j1mc: I can do it. I'll just have too see if I don't create conflicts doing that though
<stgraber> j1mc: done. That created a conflict on Monday though, hopefully the scheduler will fix it next time it runs
<j1mc> stgraber: ok - thanks. *fingers crossed*
<j1mc> stgraber: thanks v. much for your help.
<stgraber> np
<lucidfox> What's the difference between libappindicator and libappindicator3?
<lucidfox> GTK2 vs GTK3?
<lucidfox> hmm, seems so, looking at the uploads
<smoser> is there an etherpad installation that we're planning on using for uds ?
<smoser> i'd like to start populating documents if possible.
<stgraber> summit.u.c seems to be using pad.ubuntu.com now. Not sure if it's final though
<ScottK> It looks like the schedule on summ
<ScottK> ...it has links to the relevant document stubs.
<bryceh> stgraber, smoser, there's a mention about it on planet.ubuntu.com
<smoser> yeah, it looks official. i just hand't seen aything
<smoser> that really rocks. summit has good integration too, providing links for the pads.
<bryceh> smoser, yeah I poked at it a little myself and it seems really nicely hooked into things; I think people are going to really like it
<stgraber> yup, I like it too. I just hope it's going to scale well and we won't find weird bugs like with gobby last time.
<bryceh> although really to make people happy all it has to do is not delete everyone's documents
<smoser> openstack summit used etherpad fairly well.
<smoser> they only had 2 tracks really , and much less use of it generally than i'd expect for ubuntu
<StevenK> bryceh: Or crash every ten hours ...
<smoser> but, it did well for that.
<keffie_jayx> hello all, I currently maintain an app called turpial, before in the systray we had an Icon, now in unity this is not so. I have read discussions. what is the policy. Can a twitter client be allowed to be on the system notification area?
<keffie_jayx> if so, where can I have info on how to add this functionality to an app?
<stgraber> keffie_jayx: the recommended way of "fixing" that is by using the appindicators API instead of "systray". https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopExperienceTeam/ApplicationIndicators#Porting%20Guide%20for%20Applications
<stgraber> keffie_jayx: there's indeed a whitelist in Unity to allow for exceptions but it's usually for proprietary apps that can't be tweaked to use the indicators
<stgraber> (sorry, can't really tell you more, I'm not a desktop developer)
<keffie_jayx> stgraber: shall read that and see if I can come up with the fix to send upstream
<keffie_jayx> heck I do not even use unity, I am fixing i for heloing the team :)
<ScottK> keffie_jayx: That or just tell people to use Kubuntu where such things work fine.
<keffie_jayx> ScottK: ;)
<keffie_jayx> ScottK: thing is turpial packaging and I am sort of stuck with it... :S
<ScottK> keffie_jayx: I understand.  It's a difficult situation.
<lamont> awesome.  gcc-4.6 finished building, now I just need it to publish
 * lamont restores the apt-held, debconf-english arm chroot
<ScottK> Poor time of the day to be needing that.
<alkisg> Vlc in Lucid is only semi-translated to Greek (looks bad to have only half of the menus translatd), while in e.g. Natty it's almost fully translated to Greek.
<alkisg> Is there any process to backport vlc/el.mo to Lucid? I tried maintaining a PPA version for schools here but I got tired of re-uploading after each vlc security update... :-/
<pitti> Good morning
<ScottK> alkisg: There is the normal backports repository, but it would still need someone worrying about updating the backport after security updates.
<ScottK> pitti: Would improved translations in a Universe package be SRU worthy?
<ScottK> Good morning, BTW.
<pitti> ScottK: depends on how bad they are ATM, but as they are low risk I wouldn't object
<pitti> i. e. "sound a little weird" might not worth it, but "totally confusing or broken" -> sure
<micahg> good morning pitti, could you please apply an override for me, thunderbird-mozsymbols in natty-security to universe?
<ScottK> alkisg: ^^^ I think that's your answer.  If you can prepare an SRU with the fixed translations for Lucid, then problem solved.
<alkisg> Scott/pitti, thank you, I'll file an SRU for it. Currently half of its menus are in Greek and half in English, confusing users.
<pitti> alkisg: sounds fine
<alkisg> Thank you guys
<pitti> micahg: done; I wonder how I ended up in main in the frist place..
<micahg> pitti: non-private PPAs are all in main by default
 * micahg still uses the mozilla-security PPA so we can get extended testing from users (hopefully)
<lamont> dear publisher.  do that thing you do
<siretart> maxb: oh, I wasn't aware that we don't do installer respins for non-LTS releases. but can't we get at least the netboot installers fixed?
<ScottK> siretart: We don't normally.
<ScottK> There can be exceptions though.
<slangasek> ScottK: postfix uploaded to the SRU queue
<ScottK> slangasek: Thanks.
<ScottK> pitti: I'd appreciate it if you could give an accelerated review to slangasek's postfix SRU.  Broken MTAs aren't a happy thing.
<pitti> understood, will do
<ScottK> Thanks.
<pitti> slangasek: I wonder why it changes the html files in the source -- are they autogenerated during clean or so?
<pitti> (http://launchpadlibrarian.net/71105169/postfix_2.8.2-1ubuntu1_2.8.2-1ubuntu2.diff.gz)
<slangasek> pitti: correct
<slangasek> or at least, they're touched somewhere in a build->clean->build cycle
<slangasek> er, clean->build->clean
 * pitti hugs bzr bd for building in a separate tree
<slangasek> that just hides bugs :)
<pitti> most is whitespace changes, but it actually adds another option there
<pitti> -\fBpostmap\fR [\fB-Nbfhimnoprsvw\fR] [\fB-c \fIconfig_dir\fR]
<pitti> +\fBpostmap\fR [\fB-Nbfhimnoprsuvw\fR] [\fB-c \fIconfig_dir\fR]
<slangasek> that option is in the manpage... so the html was out of date :)
<pitti> postmap --help doesn't have -u either
<slangasek> oh, n/m, that *is* the manpage you're quoting (and I'm looking at)
<slangasek> do you need me to reroll without this change?
<pitti> slangasek: my current version on natty does have the manpage as well
<pitti> slangasek: I think it's harmless, as the package build will fix them anyway
<pitti> s/have the manpage/have the option/
 * slangasek nods
<pitti> seems they shouldn't be in the source at all
<pitti> slangasek: ok, thanks for checking
<pitti> slangasek, ScottK: accepted; I think it's prudent to waive the 7 day period here
<ScottK> Agreed, once we have some test results from the affected people.
<ScottK> I'll be able to check for regressions, but didn't have the actual bug.
<pitti> same here; I run a local MTA for forwarding to my server, but mail is working fine
<pitti> relayhost = 213.9.93.70:2525
<pitti> hmm, no wonder :)
<pitti> little DNS to do here
<ScottK> Actually I had the symptoms in the dupe, so I can check that.
<pitti> stgraber: question for you in bug 436936
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 436936 in kdebase-workspace (Ubuntu Natty) "gdm upstart job checks /proc/cmdline for single user mode, won't start on post-boot runlevel change" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/436936
<lamont> asm/termios.ph: missing
<lamont> syscall.ph: Can't locate asm/unistd.ph in @INC (@INC contains: ./etc/perl ./usr/local/lib/perl/5.12.3 ./usr/local/share/perl/5.12.3 ./usr/lib/perl5 ./usr/share/perl5 ./usr/lib/perl/5.12 ./usr/share/perl/5.12 ./usr/local/lib/site_perl) at usr/lib/perl/5.12/sys/syscall.ph line 7, <> line 1.
<lamont> Compilation failed in require at usr/lib/perl/5.12/syscall.ph line 5, <> line 1.
<lamont> Compilation failed in require at debian/check-require line 71, <> line 1.
<lamont> make: *** [install-stamp] Error 1
<lamont> so... WTF is missing from arm that perl hates us all?
<StevenK> lamont: perl also failed on amd64 with much the same error due to multiarch
<lamont> do we have a fix?
<StevenK> lamont: Does /usr/include/asm exist?
<lamont> dunno
<StevenK> lamont: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=625634
<ubottu> Debian bug 625634 in perl "perl ftbfs with multiarch enabled" [Important,Open]
<lamont> StevenK: not in the base chroot tarball... if it's going to exist, something'll need to create it
<ScottK> I think the standard way to fix multiarch bugs is bug slangasek until he fixes it.
<lamont> slangasek: ^^
<slangasek> ehm, did doko not already fix that bug?
<lamont> cjwatson: ^^ armel perl ftbfs, apt is building, arm is on manual, I am sleeping
<slangasek> oh, maybe he fixed it by adding a build-dep on gcc-multilib, which I guess doesn't help armel
<lamont> slangasek: might be
<slangasek> lamont: ICMP redirect doko
<lamont> slangasek: if you can get a new perl 5.12 uploaded that is expected to build, and then stuff or have it stuffed into building on arm (score it to at least 5555556 to win), that'd be cool
<lamont> slangasek: heh
 * lamont is crashing
<lamont>  doxygen : Depends: doxygen-latex but it is not going to be installed <-- doko_: OH hai.  perl is blocking apt, too.
<lamont> buildfarm is back on auto, with the apt-segvs chroot tarball for oneiric
<lamont> and on that note, bed
<cjwatson> StevenK: uh, the most recent perl/amd64 succeeded
<StevenK> cjwatson: I was going by the Debian bug that doko_ filed.
<cjwatson> looks like it would fail if not for gcc-multilib.  I guess that gives me a quicker test case than armel ...
<Sweetshark> Morning all!
 * Sweetshark wiggles around in his shiny new IRC cloak so everyone can see it.
<UGod> ubuntu devel: looking to install libid3-tools package.
<UGod> get an error - Package libid3-tools is not available, but is referred to by another package.
<UGod> This may mean that the package is missing, has been obsoleted, or
<UGod> is only available from another source
<UGod> which package to install please?
<micahg> UGod: it's in natty and oneiric
<UGod> thanks micahg... downloaded the source.. not to build and install... Cheers
<nigelb> morning dpm
<UGod> micahg: downloaded the NATTY id3lib3.8.3_3.8.3.orig.tar.gz  tarball.
<UGod> micahg: It refuses to configure!!! Error: configure: error: Missing a vital header file for id3lib
<UGod> micahg: any ideas?
<micahg> UGod: why not just install the package?
<abhinav-> pitti: I think I have found a work around to avoid using cairo. But I am getting this error on running the script: "TypeError: GObject.__init__() takes exactly 0 arguments (5 given)"
<dpm> morning nigelb
<nigelb> dpm: :)
<jtaylor> can a bugfix release of some software be done in a SRU or should these be backported?
<pitti> jtaylor: if it's only a few bug fixes, then yes
<pitti> jtaylor: sorry, s/yes/a new upstream release is acceptable/
<pitti> abhinav-: ah, you need to call constructors with their explicit name
<pitti> abhinav-: i. e. Gtk.Something.new(arg, arg)
<abhinav-> oh
<pitti> abhinav-: or give the property names explicitly, such as Gtk.Label(label='foo')
<cdbs> Anybody seen mvo around lately?
<pitti> abhinav-: see "Differences to the C API" on https://live.gnome.org/PyGObject/IntrospectionPorting
<pitti> cdbs: he might be in Budapest now, at the Canonical summit
<c2tarun> can anyone please help me with this error http://paste.kde.org/51883/
<lucidfox> Hmm
<doko> cjwatson: yes, just remove gcc-multilib on any other arch
<jtaylor> c2tarun: is HAVE_POPPLER_0_15_0 defined?
<c2tarun> jtaylor: nope.
<jtaylor> c2tarun: against which poppler version do you want to compile?
<c2tarun> jtaylor: I dont know, I just grabed the source from debian and I was trying to merge/sync. How can I check?
<cjwatson> doko: indeed.  I've reproduced it
<cjwatson> doko: I'm out for a couple of hours now; pretty sure it's utils/h2ph.PL:inc_dirs that needs to be changed, so unless you beat me to it I'm happy to finish off when I get back
<doko> cjwatson: ok, looking at it now
<jtaylor> c2tarun: sync to oneiric? then you need to have that defined
<jtaylor> c2tarun: debian only has poppler 0.12
<c2tarun> jtaylor: sorry, but what is poppler?
<jtaylor> c2tarun: no idea but its the cause of the build failure ^^
<jtaylor> c2tarun: the api change of it
<c2tarun> jtaylor: hmm... any idea how to fix it?
<jtaylor> c2tarun: it seems defining the variable should do, I'm currently checking how to do it
<c2tarun> jtaylor: is there any wiki page for such build errors?
<jtaylor> c2tarun: no its probably a failure in the configure.ac specific to epdfview
<cjwatson> doko: possibly something like http://paste.ubuntu.com/603595/, though that's entirely untested and of course we need to set and export DEB_HOST_MULTIARCH in debian/rules for that to work consistently
<jtaylor> c2tarun: seems easy to fix, I'll provide a patch soon
<c2tarun> jtaylor: I'll wait :) in case I got disconnected I'll come back and take the patch from you.
<Laney>     - ubuntu_poppler-0.15.patch: Patch taken upstream. This fixes a FTBFS with poppler 0.16 because of API changes.
<Laney> does that no longer work?
<c2tarun> Laney: I dont think so, that patch is in there and also it applied succesfully but this error is coming
<c2tarun> Laney: can you tell me what is poppler? may be I can understand the bug then.
<Laney> poppler is a pdf rendering library
<doko> cjwatson: that would work, but imo better to replace the test by: gcc -v -E - < /dev/null 2>&1 | awk '/^#include/, /^End of search list/' | grep '^ '
<jtaylor> c2tarun: did you merge debian/rules correctly
<c2tarun> jtaylor: let me check
<jtaylor> needs: --with dh_autoreconf and a build depend on it
<c2tarun> jtaylor: there is no conflict in rules, so I didnt touched it
<c2tarun> jtaylor: yup its there http://paste.ubuntu.com/603597/
<Laney> show the full build log please
<c2tarun> Laney: full build log http://paste.ubuntu.com/603598/
<jtaylor> c2tarun: the ubuntu patch does not get applied in that log
<jtaylor> c2tarun: it also needs refreshing
<c2tarun> jtaylor: which line?
<jtaylor> c2tarun: quilt push  -a -f; quilt refresh
<c2tarun> jtaylor: I mean from where did you figured out that patch was not applied?
<c2tarun> jtaylor: oh... shittt...
<c2tarun> jtaylor: I got it
<jtaylor> c2tarun: how did you build the package? fakeroot debian/rules build?
<sudipta> can  anyone tell me where to find something about upcoming features of unity in ubuntu11.04
<doko> cjwatson: now checking http://paste.ubuntu.com/603613/
<pitti> sudipta: 11.04 is what it is, there won't be new features after the release
<popey> cjwatson: were you aware that on a 10.10 live CD (no install of Ubuntu), Update Manager pops up offering to upgrade to 11.04? Want me to file a bug about it?
<sudipta> <pitti>no even in unity shell?
<pitti> sudipta: it's a stable release
<sudipta> <pitti>ok...then anything about 11.10?
<pitti> sudipta: not yet, UDS is next week
<sudipta> <pitti>thanks about the info
<micahg> pitti: could you apply the thunderbird-mozsymbols override in natty-updates as well please?
<pitti> micahg: done; there's no powerpc binary, though
<micahg> pitti: that's normal, thanks
<micahg> pitti: could you copy over to oneiric as well please?
<pitti> micahg: that's "thunderbird" source, right?
<micahg> pitti: yes please
<pitti> micahg: done; this doesn't autoclose oneiric bug tasks, so please do that manually
<micahg> pitti: ok, thanks
<Sweetshark> Hi all, Id like to lobby for some more endorsements on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BjoernMichaelsen/DeveloperApplication doko? Maybe you could do me the favour?
<doko> Sweetshark: should I write about the mismatch of https://bugs.launchpad.net/~openoffice-pkgs/+packagebugs and https://bugs.launchpad.net/~libreoffice/+packagebugs ? ;-P
<Sweetshark> doko: touche. However I just frantically searched a way to add those and did not find one. Either LP is too confusing to me or I might have to permissions to do that.
<Sweetshark> doko: If it is the second, supporting the application might help. ;D
<doko> Sweetshark: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/dict-af, then Edit bug mail subscription
<doko> for every package
<doko> not the dict-* packages are not available in Debian
<doko> Sweetshark: feel free to add other packages related to LO
<Sweetshark> k, will do.
<Sweetshark> doko: Should I remove them from OOo scribblers?
<doko> is it needed? anyway, you can do it now
<doko> lamont, cjwatson: looks like apt isn't on hold anymore, perl failed to build on armel
<Sweetshark> doko: It makes it easier as I can see if ther are any packages left at OOo then. Ill do it.
<doko> Sweetshark: would be good if the dict-* packages could see an update after some years
<cjwatson> doko: agreed, that looks much cleaner
<cjwatson> popey: yes, in fact I mentioned it here yesterday :-)  I'm working on a fix, but a bug would be good anyway since I think it would be worth SRUing
<cjwatson> popey: on casper
<popey> groovy
<cjwatson> I think diverting /usr/lib/update-manager/check-new-release{,-gtk} is the right answer
<tseliot> apw, cjwatson: any ideas as to why a failure to start X with a proprietary driver such as nvidia would result in having the VT stuck in KD_GRAPHICS? Shouldn't we fall back to KD_TEXT?
<cjwatson> popey: have you filed that bug?  I have the patch ready to commit once I have a bug number ...
<popey> not yet, on windows at work, happy for me to file one with no apport stuff?
<cjwatson> yes, the apport stuff would be irrelevant anyway
 * popey files now
<cjwatson> ta
<popey> bug 777759
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 777759 in casper (Ubuntu) "10.10 live CD prompts to upgrade to 11.04" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/777759
<popey> ooo, so close to 777777
<jdstrand> cjwatson: hey, sorry to bother you, but can you think of any reason why lp-remove-package.py wouldn't work?
<jdstrand> cjwatson: http://paste.ubuntu.com/603664/
<ScottK> slangasek: My part of the postfix bug is verified fixed.  Thanks again.
<cjwatson> jdstrand: looks like a held lock or something, have you tried stracing it?
<jdstrand> no, I'll do that. I just hadn't seen it before and didn't know if something was going on that I didn't know about
<cjwatson> doesn't ring a belel
<cjwatson> *bell
<jdstrand> aha
<jdstrand> slangasek: pam-devperm is hung
<jdstrand> err
<jdstrand> slangasek's
<jdstrand> slangasek: your lp-remove-package.py of pam-devperm is hung on cocoplum
<jdstrand> slangasek: maybe it is looking for confirmation?
 * jdstrand jots down the command and kills the process
<jdstrand> slangasek: it seems you maybe forgot a '-y' in a script/looping command: now there is the same for tla-buildpackage
<jdstrand> slangasek: and wmsmpmon. I'm guessing ./process-removals.py in a screen session. I'm done harassing you now, but anyone wanting to remove a package will have to kill the lp-remove-package.py on cocoplum that is holding the lock
<ScottK> Need to hurry if you want to report bug 777777
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 777777 in evolution (Ubuntu) "Mark read / unread only works once in message window" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/777777
<ScottK> Oops.  Too late.
<doko> cjwatson: for perl rebuilds, I wanted to follow the stages in http://release.debian.org/transitions/html/perl.html once armel is working again,
<cjwatson> doko: oh, sorry.  I checked that they were at the bottom level in terms of build-deps
<doko> np, just trying to track rebuilds which are already done
<cjwatson> that order is confusing.  Why are libtext-charwidth-perl and libtext-iconv-perl not at the top level?
<cjwatson> well, tracking is easy, grep for Depends: perlapi-5.10.1
<doko> right
<tseliot> cjwatson: no ideas? Also, can you point me to the commit that you made in grub to address the black screen on VT switch issue (the one that required switching back to page 0 before loading Linux), please?
<YokoZar> What's the UDS channel gonna be?
<YokoZar> I'm in Budapest already
<cjwatson> tseliot: sorry, it doesn't ring a bell; note though that there's more than just KD_GRAPHICS and KD_TEXT, there's also KD_TRANSPARENT which turns into text mode on VT switch
<cjwatson> tseliot: if it really is KD_GRAPHICS, it sounds like a plymouth bug of some kind maybe?
<cjwatson> tseliot: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~vcs-imports/grub/grub2-bzr/revision/3116 upstream, http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu/natty/grub2/natty/revision/2138 in Ubuntu
<Laney> I just put http://people.ubuntu.com/~laney/transitions/perl.html up (run against the Ubuntu archive)
<cjwatson> oh, nice
<cjwatson> where's the source for the tracker?
<deffcon> i want to compile openelect.tv on ubuntu natty, when i do a make i get error on glibc-static
<Laney> doesn't have multiple archive support though, so i couldn't add ports
<Laney> cjwatson: git+ssh://git.debian.org/git/collab-maint/ben.git
<Laney> i'll push my changes to a branch soon
<cjwatson> nice, thanks
<cjwatson> deffcon: it's generally much easier to debug the exact text of error messages, rather than descriptions of the errors.  if it's more than a line or two, put it on paste.ubuntu.com
<tseliot> cjwatson: I assumed that it was KD_GRAPHICS as plymouth switches between it and KD_TEXT and this problem is about being stuck with a splash screen when X fails (I should have probably mentioned this). Switching to KD_TEXT with a custom app that I wrote seems to solve the problem
<cjwatson> tseliot: any VT switch might do the job too
<tseliot> cjwatson: according to the engineer who reported the problem, VT switch had no effect. Thanks for the links BTW
<cjwatson> tseliot: cranking up plymouth debugging options might be a plan
<tseliot> cjwatson: good point
<tseliot> cjwatson: also, since gdm is supposed to tell plymouth to quit without any kind of transition effect when X fails,it might be a good idea to make gdm switch to KD_TEXT if plymouth is stuck. Here's what we currently do: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/603705/
<cjwatson> tseliot: maybe on those error paths
<tseliot> cjwatson: yes, that's what I was suggesting
<tseliot> so that at least we are back to text mode if something nasty happens
<cjwatson> I've certainly heard worse ideas :)
<tseliot> hehe
<abhinav-> pitti: partial success :). problem is that instead of producing screenshot in  PNG a postscript file is being produced :D
<stgraber> pitti: hi! I'll re-upload to clarify changelog. Thanks for noticing my bad copy/paste :)
<stgraber> pitti: I'll use kdm.conf instead of kdm.upstart as it's the name it'll have on the installed system and so should be clearer to the user
<pitti> stgraber: ah, right; thanks
<pitti> abhinav-: weird, a PS should be a lot harder to get than a PNG :)
<abhinav-> pitti: yeah. I don't know but something is going wrong. It should save it in png by the name "test.png" but it dumps a file by the name "gi" :-P
<abhinav-> that is a ps file
<abhinav-> pitti: I am getting these tracebacks at the end of script execution http://paste.ubuntu.com/603736/ .
<pitti> abhinav-: hm, do you try to run a python file which doesn't have a proper hashbang line or something similar?
<abhinav-> pitti: ah yes, I didn't declare the hashbang
<pitti> or a python file through shell or so?
<abhinav-> pitti: yes, declaring hashbang seems to have resolved. Thanks :)
<effie_jayx> hello all, yesterday I asked about adding an icon to "systray" in unity. I am the current maintainer of a microblogging app and I would like to know what isthe best way to have integrated with unity?
<BlackZ> pitti: re rsyslog: does create /dev/xconsole help?
<effie_jayx> I have read about libappindicator https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopExperienceTeam/ApplicationIndicators#Porting%20Guide%20for%20Applications, however I am not clear If I as a maintainer should develop a patch and send it upstream, it being a little change that is not very intrussive. Or if I should just work with them in making changes that will affect funtionality in other distros like debian and the rest.
<pitti> BlackZ: haven't tried, but removing the xconsole rule doesn't
<BlackZ> pitti: hmm.. let me know if creating /dev/xconsole manually helps
<pitti> BlackZ: does it for you?
<BlackZ> pitti: I don't remember having this problem.. do you have it on different machines?
<pitti> just tested on my main workstation
<BlackZ> pitti: ok, will check carefully later. I will let you know if I have this problem
<pitti> thanks
<pitti> I have no rsyslog customization at all on this matchine
<cjwatson> stgraber: BTW, merges.u.c did sort itself out
<BlackZ> pitti: me neither. And the configuration file in the Debian package didn't change
<Chipzz> effie_jayx: the page you linked to mentions #ayatana as the place to be
<stgraber> cjwatson: yep, I noticed it eventually updated at some point yesterday in my afternoon/evening.
<effie_jayx> Chipzz: thanks for the heads up
<mdeslaur> who's the dbusmenu specialist?
<shadeslayer> stgraber: around?
<stgraber> shadeslayer: yep
<shadeslayer> stgraber: i have a tiny issue in pastebinit
<shadeslayer> it doesn't list any supported pastebin sites
<shadeslayer> i've removed all possible config files related to it and re-installed it using --purge .... still doesn't work
<stgraber> shadeslayer: oh, that could be a problem :) what do you have in /usr/share/pastebin.d/ ?
<shadeslayer> stgraber: all the conf files for pastebin sites
<stgraber> ok, and "pastebinit -l" returns nothing ?
<shadeslayer> yep
<stgraber> shadeslayer: can you pastebin (manually :)) the output of: "strace -fF pastebinit -l 2>&1 | grep pastebin.d" ?
<shadeslayer> sure
<shadeslayer> stgraber: http://paste.ubuntu.com/603750/
<stgraber> shadeslayer: ok, I found the issue, though it's an upstream bug ...
<stgraber> shadeslayer: sudo rmdir /etc/pastebin.d
<stgraber> and you'll be good
<shadeslayer> whee :D
<shadeslayer> stgraber: {{hugs}}
<shadeslayer> now ... i'll write a backend for gist.github ;)
<stgraber> I'll file a bug upstream so I fix it with the next release (next release will be a major rewrite)
<shadeslayer> oh goody :D
<soren> Erk. This can't be good: [19277.870958] apt-get[11134]: segfault at 7f8fa4bf7000 ip 00007f7cd6249dbd sp 00007fff7fe05f60 error 4 in libapt-pkg.so.4.10.1[7f7cd61fd000+10b000]
<soren> Doh. Fetching apt and dpkg -i'ing it solved it. Something's amiss.
<Daniel0108> hi
<ScottK> soren: Are you on oneiric armel perchance?
<SqRt7744> hi, does anyone know how to get a package uploaded to a ppa to be built for multiple releases? ...well at least 10.10 and 11.04?
<tumbleweed> SqRt7744: #launchpad for non-ubuntu-development questions. And no you can't. Upload once for each release (with differennt versions, i.e. ~maverick1 & ~natty1 )
<SqRt7744> tumbleweed, ah ok thanks.
<hallyn> so, libvirt in natty and oneiric currently have the same versions.  I uploaded a fix to oneiric.  Then I wanted to upload the fix to natty-proposed.  But that got rejected bc of same contents as oneiric.  What to do?  (Beside syncing a newer version for oneiric, which I want to do anyway 'soonish')
<Laney> what did the error message say?
<Laney> the natty version needs a lower version number than in oneiric
<hallyn> so i can call it 6.1 or something?
<hallyn> or is that too funky?
<barry> Laney: btw, thanks about winpdb
<Laney> hallyn: 6.1 sounds right yeah
<Laney> barry: no probs
<hallyn> Laney: great, thanks
<lamont> cjwatson: lets chat at UDS about -i18n vs -english sometime in the hall, eh?
<cjwatson> lamont: yep
<lamont> clearly doesn't warrant a full session or anything close to it.
<lamont> though if it fits into one somewhere, that's fine too
<cjwatson> lamont: I don't think it does
<lamont> 'zactly
<slangasek> jdstrand: yes, I have process-removals running here, trying to clear up the backlog of Debian removals from past cycles - sorry if it was in your way
<jdstrand> slangasek: it wasn't in my way once I figured out what the problem was. that said, I killed a few of your removals so it would need to be run again
<jdstrand> slangasek: I think just the three I mentioned
<slangasek> jdstrand: yeah... it's a long enough run that having to run it again is a minor roadbump ;)
<jdstrand> well, they could be removed by hand...
<slangasek> jdstrand: nah, less mental effort to just rerun process-removals
<infinity> cjwatson, lamont : If you have wireless in that hall, feel free to poke me about it.  I was using -english over -i18n on both Debian abd Ubuntu buildds for years for a variety of reasons.
 * pmatulis surprised that both MIT and Heimdal Kerberos are in universe
<Tyr999999> Hello, when i watch flashvideos the vid starts becoming more and mor "choppy" after approx. 10 mins.Anyone an idea?
<Pici> Tyr999999: This isn't a support channel, use #ubuntu instead.
<Tyr999999> Whopops, sorry.
<slangasek> pmatulis: only the KDC is in universe for MIT Kerberos; the libraries and clients are all in main; if krb5-kdc and krb5-admin-server are wanted in main, I guess you should talk to the server team and convince them to seed them
<pmatulis> slangasek: ah, thx for that
<slangasek> n/p
<slangasek> effectively we already have to provide security support for the kdc since it's from the same source package as the libs, so seeding it is probably pro forma :)
<broder> slangasek, pmatulis: in fact i'm pretty sure i've seen krb5 USNs that were for KDC-only issues, so i think the support may be effectively there already :)
<pmatulis> broder: yeah, we send out USN for non-main stuff sometimes
<doko> lamont, cjwatson: perl built \o/  I assume I can rescore, give back the failed perl builds in 20 minutes
<geser> doko: is the perl transition already in a state where one can start with rebuilding packages depending on libperl5.10? or should I wait some more days?
<doko> 5.12? no, please let armel catch up
<geser> ok
<Otacon22> Hi all
<lamont> doko: are you doing the perl retries then?
<lamont> because it looks to be ready for that
<doko> lamont: I did, but apt needs libxml-parser-perl
<lamont> yeah, I figured apt would prolly wind up behind them all
<doko> lamont: is it safe, to set the buillds to auto after the apt build?
<lamont> doko: I need to restore the chroot tarball
<lamont> once apt is started, poke me or a gsa to do that, and once that's done, we can go auto
<lamont> well, once apt is built
<doko> lamont: even if the apt build is started
<lamont> oh right.
<lamont> since after apt is built, we'll retry all of arm/oneiric
<doko> will have to do a give-back anyway
<lamont> so yes, once the apt build is started (and all of perl rebuilds are at least started), let me know
<lamont> and by "started" I mean "have fetched the tarball and started unpacking it
<doko> will be in 40min
<kelemengabor> Hi, can somebody tell me, what should I do to get a blueprint approved for UDS?
<kelemengabor> this one: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/community-o-hungarian-loco-brainstorm
<kelemengabor> Is it automagic? Or I should ask someone?
<natschil> Good Day. I would like to setup another configuration for the filesystems for ubiquity, apart from the "use free space" and "use all space" etc options, and support for another filesystem type in partman following that. What would be the easiest way to implement this?
<natschil> I downloaded the source code for ubiquity, but before trying to figure out how it all works and what file does what, I was wondering if there was some documentation here or elsewhere to help me.
<ScottK> kelemengabor: It's not purely automagic.  I'd imagine jono will have a look at it sometime today.
<kelemengabor> ScottK: thanks!
<natschil> any suggestions?
<jcastro> ScottK: I'd like to switch the Qt Panel with your kubuntu defaults (9am on Tuesday) if possible, there's a flight conflict with one of the Nokia folks and he has to be in the morning.
<natschil>  any suggestions as to where to ask about how to do things like described earlier with ubiquity?
<ScottK> jcastro: Should be fine.  That should increase the chances apachelogger gets up on time.
<jcastro> hah
<jcastro> ok moving it now
<bdrung_> lool: will you merge devscripts?
<bdrung_> lool: are you interested in reducing the diff to debian in devscripts?
<popey> cjwatson: wthanks for answering my question
<geser> jelmer, poolie: can somebody of you fix the bzr-* FTBFS in oneiric? you probably need to reorder the build-depends on "bzr (<< 2.4.0~beta1-2) | python-bzrlib.tests" to "python-bzrlib.tests | bzr (<< 2.4.0~beta1-2)" so the buildd install the right package (see e.g. https://launchpadlibrarian.net/70985338/buildlog_ubuntu-oneiric-i386.bzr-dbus_0.1~bzr49-1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz for a FTBFS)
<jelmer> geser: sure, I'll have a look when I get a chance
<geser> thanks
<poolie> geser, why does that make a difference?
<geser> poolie: because of bug #594916 when checking which build-depends need to be installed: the version constraint isn't checked when computed which packages need to be installed and later dpkg-buildpackage complains about it
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 594916 in Launchpad Auto Build System "buildd doesn't correctly check versioned ORed build-dependencies" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/594916
<geser> the buildd installs bzr (the first preference) instead of python-bzrlib.tests but the version in the archive is newer than requested
<poolie> ok thanks
<infinity> To be fair, it's best practice for your first option to be the one you actually want anyway.
<geser> if you reorder this build-dependency, the buildd will pick python-bzrlib.tests first and only fallback to bzr if the first one doesn't exist
<infinity> And obviously you don't want people downgrading bzr.
<Laney> are or-ed buildds actually supported by policy?
<Laney> build-depends, even
<geser> wasn't there recently (a few weeks ago) a discussion about it on the debian-devel ML?
<Laney> right, around the topic of sbuild's resolver
<Laney> I don't think there was consensus that they are a good idea
<apachelogger> ScottK: :)
<stgraber> Laney: ping
<Laney> hi stgraber
<stgraber> Laney: seems like the DMB meeting is supposed to be at 3pm and not 4pm (budapest time)
<Laney> oh really?
<stgraber> Laney: http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/converted.html?month=5&day=9&year=2011&hour=13&min=0&sec=0&p1=0&p2=50
<Laney> I thought it was 1400 utc
<stgraber> Laney: I'll see if I can move it without too many conflicts. If not, then I guess we should just advertise that it'll be an hour later than usual :)
<doko> lamont: the perl stuff did build, apt did ftbfs again due to doxygen not built (now started). I think you can revert back the chroots, but keep apt on hold, and then set the buildds to auto again
<doko> please give back apt if doxygen is in the archive
<doko> afk now
<stgraber> Laney: multiple conflicts :(
<stgraber> Laney: in multiple sessions, so I can't just swap them to fix it :(
<Laney> whoops
<Laney> I thought we'd moved 1300 â 1400
<Laney> but we actually moved 1200 â 1300. sorry :(
<stgraber> np :) I guess we should just e-mail ubuntu-devel and maybe get the fridge updated to say that next week's meeting is going to be from 14:15 to 15:00 UTC
<Laney> I guess it doesn't matter so much as most people will be there in person
<stgraber> yeah. I prefer to have it stay at 14:15 and have everyone there than move it an hour earlier and miss persia and rsalveti
<doko> lamont, cjwatson: doxygen FTBFS, so I assume the best thing would be to set apt on hold, restore the tarballs, and set the buildds on auto
<lamont> doko: do we know why it's ftbfs?
<doko> lamont: https://launchpadlibrarian.net/71162021/buildlog_ubuntu-oneiric-armel.doxygen_1.7.4-1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<doko> see email
<ScottK> doko: That looks somewhat like https://buildd.debian.org/status/fetch.php?pkg=kde4libs&arch=armel&ver=4%3A4.4.5-5&stamp=1304545515
<stgraber> Laney: sent an e-mail to ubuntu-devel about the next DMB meeting
<Laney> thanks
<SpamapS> pitti: ping re erlang that I am uploading at the moment. I am removing the patch that turns on "+slim" and "+compresed" because they produce weird results .. figure we will pose the question to upstream later.
#ubuntu-devel 2011-05-06
<bdrung_> ttx: what does tomcat have to do with eclipse ( https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/server-o-tomcat7-packaging )?
<ohsix> bdrung_: the jdt has project types that start, add modules & run tomcat instances in the project, iirc
<bdrung_> aha
<SpamapS> everything in Java is connected like that
<SpamapS> its like the borg that way
<TheMuso> Do the launchpad buildds support linux-any in any form yet?
<RAOF> TheMuso: I thought that was purely a pbuilder problem; I've been happily building and uploading linux-any packages.
<RAOF> (And they seem to build on launchpad, too âº)
<TheMuso> Ok thanks, will just use it and see how things go.
 * TheMuso uses sbuild anyway, so...
<RAOF> Likewise, which is why I wasn't seeing any problems.  Others in the ubuntu-x team use pbuilder, and so they've been swapping out linux-any when they touch packages :)
<TheMuso> Right.
<phungvantu> hi all
<ohsix> is felix geyer here on irc?
<ohsix> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mesa/+bug/753370 the root of their problem was using an informational string as api
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 753370 in mesa (Ubuntu) "No Desktop Effects in Kubuntu 11.04 Beta1" [Medium,Fix released]
<ohsix> Sarvatt: you're the best :]
<RAOF> ohsix: There was a nice big mesa-dev thread about not parsing GL_VENDOR for blacklists.
<ohsix> ok cool
<ohsix> i saw anholt commented on the blag where the guy was raging about it
<ohsix> i'm no opengl "pro" but i read the red book and i know the informational strings aren't api D: that guy seriously used a lot of words for being exactly wrong
<ohsix> (if you can gmane me to that thread i'd appreciate it)
<ohsix> martin (the loud guy) was pretty off base calling it the only solution, to restore some past badness he was already doing
<RAOF> ohsix: http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.video.mesa3d.devel/25597
<ohsix> thanks
<RAOF> There's a bit before that which was in another thread.
<ohsix> the more the better, i wanna confirm my own prejudices! :D
<ohsix> eugh even on the bug they suggest changes that include strstr, which is another VERBOTEN thing, prefixes aren't unique
<ScottK> ohsix: So you think this was appropriate for a point release to drop?
<ohsix> yes
<ScottK> ohsix: When people are relying on stuff and it's dropped in a point release I think it's totally reasonable to be upset.
<ohsix> it's akin to internal debug message strings that aren't translated being changed
<ohsix> the problem is they were relying on it, not that it changed; it's an opengl thing they should know
<ScottK> Good bad or indifferent, they were relying on it and KDE 4.6 is released and unlike mesa, they have rules about what can be done in point releases.
<ohsix> they should have ran with the dialogue about how to do it correctly now that other parties are interested, but i don't see that happening in the stuff i've read so far
<ScottK> Separate issue.
<ohsix> oh i don't minimize that they have a problem they'll have to deal with
<ScottK> They are reworking it for KDE 4.7.
<ScottK> But for 4.6 they are stuck.
<ohsix> but the problem existed before they knew it was a problem
<ScottK> That doesn't parse.
<ohsix> martin seems to continually imply that their rigid rules are more appropriate and mesa should follow them with respect to information he shouldn't have been relying on anyways
<ScottK> We shouldn't have to regression test point releases for stuff upstreams removed on purpose.
<ohsix> the problem = relying on the _RENDERER and _VENDOR string for stuff
<ohsix> they have other problems with using strstr on _EXTENSIONS too
<ScottK> Fine, so drop it in a proper development release.
<ohsix> haha
<ScottK> It's like mesa is going out of it's way to break stuff.
<ohsix> i accept that you don't know much about what these strings are and what the opengl specifications says what you can and can't do with them
<ScottK> I understand that breaking already released software is poor form.
<ohsix> it isn't ambiguous at all, but it seems martin went and did exactly the wrong thing
<ohsix> you can break already released software very easily if they do something you were very clear about telling them they shouldn't be doing
<ohsix> with their use of strstr you can break their software by introducing support for an extension
<ohsix> it's a non sequitor
<ohsix> it's not easy to use opengl properly, and people have plenty of room to complain about it, checking versions and loading extensions and whatnot
<ohsix> it's easier on platforms with a dynamic linker but you generally can't take advantage of that
<ScottK> Felix IRCs as debfx, btw.
<ohsix> ok thank you
<ScottK> I can understand why mesa devs might feel like they weren't required to maintain that, but it seems like a gratuitous change.
<ScottK> No reason it couldn't have waited for the next development cycle, even if it was technically internal.
<ohsix> if it wasn't valid information anyways and it was long overdue for removal i don't see when an appropriate time to make the change would have been, presuming things that don't hold true for those strings that is
<ohsix> those strings can change with the weather
<ScottK> Apparently.
<ohsix> generally stuff is only appended, like with "SSE2/MMX" and stuff
<ohsix> but at best they're for telling an operator about something, it's devoid of information useful for a program
<ScottK> Generally I think stuff should be removed during development, not in maintenance releases.
<ohsix> i agree
<ScottK> It's not unusual for people to end up relying on defact ABI and so it's reasonable not to mess with it more than necessary.
<ScottK> defact/defacto
<ohsix> it's definitely a special case; if it were a command line program with unstable output for its tables it'd have a "DONT PARSE THIS OUTPUT" type header on every invocation
<ScottK> If it'd been in a new development release, I think there would have been no reason to bitch.
<ohsix> problem with de-facto is it's basically a set of ad-hoc assumptions that are probably not very nuanced and half wrong, and change over time anyways
<ScottK> Right, but that doesn't mean it's not reasonable to not mess with them more than you have to in maintenance updates.
<ohsix> i'd probably be right with martin if that was the point he was making, the one you are
<ScottK> I've discussed it with him.
<ohsix> but the invective started off in a manner that it was a grave thing to do and what was being done was correct
<ScottK> This is no doubt not the only point he had, but it was surely one of them.
<ScottK> To draw a parallel from the real world, just because it's legal, doesn't make it a good idea.
<ScottK> This may not have been technically an ABI break, but that doesn't make it just fine either.
<ScottK> We patched it back in with AFAIK zero bad effect.
<ohsix> i would do it in spite of the people that use it
<ohsix> because the spec says i'm ok :]
<ScottK> Which is not a very accommodating way to develop the joint FOSS ecosystem.
<ohsix> well it's devoid of informational content
<ScottK> It doesn't excuse gratuitous changes.
<ohsix> what does it mean that "GEM" is in there? except that it was perceived at one time to mean the distinction for a given thing
<ScottK> I'm not saying he was right to rely on it, but he did.
<ohsix> yea, ad-hoc
<ohsix> nbd
<ScottK> If there was more reason for doing it than "because we can" I might be more sympathetic.
<ohsix> well the date & "GEM" was pretty useless, there was a time when it meant something when dri1 and dri2 drivers were in play at the same time
<ohsix> but it still didn't mean what he took it to mean
<ohsix> i'm biased though, i'd presume anyone that uses given thing X (opengl) has done the due diligence about reading about X
<ScottK> Sometimes one is forced to do things one would rather not do.
<ScottK> I'm not sure why he latched onto that.
<ohsix> me either
<ScottK> I'm glad the ubuntu-x people were willing to patch it back in or Kubuntu would have been screwed.
<ScottK> Here at the distro level we were pretty much stuck between a rock and a hard place.
<ohsix> yea
<ohsix> it makes sense to argue for having it temporarily added back
<ScottK> My only bitch was that it was removed in a maintenance update.
<ohsix> but not to shore it up by defending the silly thing you did
<ScottK> From what I know the removal was reasonable, just the timing could have been better.
<ScottK> People are like that.
<ohsix> i'd hope the mesa guys make a note of it, but they don't need to really change that; and i'd hope the opengl people doing bad things take note and not do that D:
<ohsix> their rules might be too rigid if they can't fix something like bad opengl version checking in a minor series, too
<ohsix> theres always exceptions, this one might not meet the standard but there will be stuff that will
<ScottK> It depends on how invasive the change would have been and what other regression risk it brought.
<ScottK> I'm not a kwin developer, so I can't judge.
<ohsix> https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=270942 i'm really surprised he wasn't more resistant to relying on newer mesa versions, that's typically something you do as a last resort
<ubottu> KDE bug 270942 in compositing "Direct Rendering is wrongfully disabled on Intel graphics since mesa 7 10 1" [Normal,Resolved: fixed]
<ScottK> Agreed. That's a pretty recent release to be relying on.
<ScottK> ohsix: When he says "Unfortunately version, vendor and renderer are the only information queryable just with OpenGL API." is that accurate?
<ohsix> he's not wrong, but that doesn't speak to what information you actually get
<ohsix> all those strings can be "HURF DURF" and not be wrong
<ScottK> It seems like there's room to improve the information that's provided then as he seems to need something not properly provided by the API.
<ohsix> well people told him to just call DRI2 extension methods to directly find the information he's stated he's trying to infer
<ScottK> Sounds substantially more complex.
<ohsix> the point of opengl is to not really rely on that information, if you need to blacklist a driver version that you know is wrong or something you do it with the entire string, even better if its by md5 or something of that string, so you won't be tempted to make it anything more general
<ohsix> well it's information he admittedly wants, and you need to use windowing system specific stuff to get some of it; glx at least tells you if you get direct rendering and stuff
<ScottK> I have a $work project I need to get back to.
<ohsix> :]
<ohsix> "users of working drivers (e.g. NVIDIA)" gag
<pitti> Good morning
<pitti> SpamapS: uh, we ship with that since lucid, don't we?
<abhinav-> pitti: Good morning. for bug 772336 I tried all sorts of things but I am not able to make it work. 1 or 2 methods were really crucial for the code to work. I give it up for now :(
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 772336 in apport (Ubuntu) "Add feature to take screenshots of the buggy window" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/772336
<cdbs> ScottK: Hey, you do seem to be taking a large benefit from the GNOME3 discussions on -devel-discuss by informing users about KDE :)
<abhinav-> Those methods were removed from gtk3
<ScottK> cdbs: If people don't like what Ubuntu is providing, I'd like them to be aware of the alternatives.
<ScottK> I think it's better for the project if such people don't leave.
<ScottK> OTOH, more users == more work, so it's not like it particularly helps me personally.
<cdbs> ScottK: exactly. Its better for users to move to {k,x,l}ubuntu than change distros altogether if they hate Unity or GNOME
<pitti> the more important point here is teaching the fact that "ubuntu" is not just one possible thing, but making them aware of the full richness of choice
<ScottK> The problem is that many experienced computer users simply aren't in the Gnome 3/Unity target market.
<cdbs> ScottK: Right now many users frustrated about the Unity move are thinking they'll be bound to use Unity and are changing distros to Arch or Fedora
<TheMuso> I personally think of Ubuntu mroe as a distro base than anything else. All derivatives use the same underlying architecture/drivers/kernel etc, the different DEs just provide users with a choice of interface to use.
<ohsix> pitti: linux isn't about choice :D
<cdbs> they forget the fact that GNOME Shell, KDE, XFCE, LXDE are all alternatives, and can run perfectly on their beloved Ubuntu stack
<ScottK> pitti: Agreed.  I think it's unfortunate that Ubuntu Desktop was dropped again in favor of just referring to it as Ubuntu.  The term was overloaded enough already.
<ohsix> cdbs: is that list tracked on gmane? url?
<ScottK> TheMuso: It would be nice if the terminology matched this perspective.
<TheMuso> ScottK: I am enclined to agree.
<cdbs> ohsix: Its a recent discussion on -devel-discuss, and there were many similar ones in april as well
<ohsix> cdbs: ok thanks
<TheMuso> Is it possible to run 3D acceleration in KVM yet?
<ScottK> I find it amusing that many of the people complaining they no longer have "Gnome" seem to have little understanding of how customized Ubuntu's Gnome already was.
<cdbs> ScottK: Well, the feedback on Unity by non-technical and casual Windows users has been highly positive, its just the power user who's concerned
<ScottK> cdbs: See my earlier comment about "not in the target market".
<cdbs> hmm
<ScottK> I think when many people saw Mark Shuttleworth's jumping the chasm presentation their first thought was "Cool".  Later "But where do I fit into that" hit.
<ohsix> i'll be severely fretting when there is no panel, i need to monitor my harddrive temperature in my laptop and it's a deal breaker :D
<TheMuso> Hrm I wonder if a temperature indicator is the solution to that, and not just for HD, but for everything. :)
<TheMuso> As to how one would implement that however, is another story.
<cdbs> Looks like Mark is having trouble with his net connection at Budapest :/
<ScottK> Of course you can make your KDE look like Unity if you want too: http://zrchrn.blogspot.com/2011/05/kde-unity-setup.html
<ohsix> TheMuso: the performance monitor applet that i also use isn't a must have, but apparently a lot of them have changed to the new infrastructure w/gnome 3; so i'll have to wait and see really, which is a bit disconcerting
<TheMuso> Ah ok.
<ohsix> i'm very very very flexible on any other changes :]
<TheMuso> Hrm ok seems not yet.
<cdbs> Apparently the new kernel built packages are stuck up in NEW
<TheMuso> Yeah, binary new, always the case for new kernel versions/ABI.
<slangasek> doko_: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/cairo/1.10.2-2ubuntu3/+buildjob/2530317 looks like a gcc bug to me, considering -lm is being passed explicitly; can you confirm?
<cdbs> someone ask sa-bdfl to fix his connection :/
<ohsix> he might not be able to
<ohsix> what's going on in hungary anyways?
<TheMuso> cdbs: design sprint I believe.
<cdbs> TheMuso: you probably wanted to say that to ohsix . ohsix ^^
<cdbs> ohsix: Design sprint, and monday onwards will be UDS
<ohsix> ah
<TheMuso> WHoops yes I did too.
<cdbs> TheMuso: I guess you're also at the sprint(s)?
<TheMuso> cdbs: No, I am still at home. I fly out to UDS tomorrow.
<cdbs> niche
<RAOF> Stupid planes.
<StevenK> Haha
<StevenK> RAOF: Perhaps the airline is partly to blame, too?
<RAOF> StevenK: No, I think not.
<RAOF> I think that planes are inherently evil devices projected from a far-future where machines rule over us.
<RAOF> As such, the airlines are just as much a victim as the rest of us :)
<bryceh> heh
<bryceh> RAOF, trouble?
<RAOF> bryceh: No more than the anticipation of 34 hours worth of travel provides :)
<TheMuso> I have often wondered whether video teleconferencing with sufficiently large pipes will ever replaces sprints/UDS...
<bryceh> ah
<bryceh> TheMuso, me too
<RAOF> Planes are either not fast enough or not comfortable enough.  We should totally be doing international travel with huge dirigibles.
<TheMuso> Part of me hopes not, but part of me hopes so. Its the traveling I dislike, but I enjoy my weeks at sprints/UDS.
<bryceh> Ubuntu Cruise Lines
<bryceh> sabdfl1 appears to be on a hotel's wireless ;-)
<RAOF> I'm sure you could fly HobartâBudapest in a couple of days in a sufficiently awesome dirigible.
<RAOF> Plus!  Room!
<StevenK> And you can get the chance to be the next Hindenberg!
<RAOF> TheMuso: Yeah.  I really like the meeting-up-with-people parts of sprints/UDS.  :)
<bryceh> hey, 747's have room if you take out every 2-3 rows
<RAOF> StevenK: Nah.  I wouldn't make the airframe out of rust and aluminium :)
<TheMuso> lol
<StevenK> RAOF: I think the hydrogen may have helped ...
<RAOF> There's an obvious solution for that, too :)
<bryceh> StevenK, actually I heard that probably immediately rose straight up, it was mostly the doping on the skin
<pitti> StevenK: "Hindenburg" :)
<StevenK> pitti: Bah :-)
<TheMuso> Speaking of travel...
 * TheMuso starts collating data to transfer to notebook.
<sabdfl> hey bryceh, informed guess :-)
<slangasek> RAOF: didn't I see somebody recently prototyping commercial dirigible flight for the first time in a long time?
<slangasek> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P-791, maybe
 * ScottK wants suborbital space planes.
<ScottK> Anywhere on earth in ~30 minutes flight time or less.
<TheMuso> That would be very nice.
 * bryceh wants subterranean high speed intercontinental mega-trains
<ScottK> Mind you I'd want them to not use X windows anywhere in them.
<bryceh> hey
<TheMuso> lol
<bryceh> ScottK, as long as you're using gtk and metacity you'd be fine
<ScottK> Oh dear.  No.
<c2tarun> I am trying to manually merge conky. Here is the debdiff I got http://paste.ubuntu.com/603994/ I imported the changes from previous ubuntu version, What I dont understand is one extra patch file in debian/patches . That patch is not even included in series file. From where did it came? Can I remove it?
 * ScottK doesn't know what people use for flight safety critical U/I work, but I'm betting that's not it.
<RAOF> ScottK: Actually, at XDS last year we went to a flight control research centre, where they were demonstrating X-based air traffic control terminals :)
<RAOF> It was neat!
 * RAOF wants evacuated point-to-point tunnels dug through the Earth.  43 minutes to anywhere!
<TheMuso> That concerns me, what about the earth's inner stability?
<bryceh> pneumatics people movers. hello 19th's century's 21st century!
<c2tarun> can anyone please look at my query? :( I just posted few minutes ago.
<slangasek> ScottK: well, if companies are using EC2 for remote in-home monitoring of patient's heartbeats, why not :)
<slangasek> c2tarun: the debdiff there is old debian->old ubuntu?
<slangasek> ah, no, that's a NEWS at the top, not a changelog
<c2tarun> slangasek: oh no not the top, please look at line 115 and then the series file in the end
<slangasek> c2tarun: is conky-1.8.0/debian/patches/debian-changes-1.8.0-1.1ubuntu1 the one you refer to?
<c2tarun> slangasek: yes
<slangasek> right
<c2tarun> slangasek: where did this file come from?
<ScottK> RAOF: Air traffic control systems have much less stringent requirements than the actual flight controls.
<RAOF> ScottK: Quite true.  They're unlikely to be using a codebase as huge as X for that.
<slangasek> c2tarun: with dpkg 3.0 (quilt) format, changes to the upstream sources that aren't otherwise listed in the series file get automatically rolled up into a patch in debian/patches named "debian-changes-$version"; that's what you're seeing here
<ScottK> Which gets back to my "No X inside" request.
<c2tarun> slangasek: hmm... so I should remove it and build the source package again?
<slangasek> c2tarun: the issue is that there were already "unlabeled" upstream changes in the previous version; somehow that patch is still present, plus a new patch for the new version.  You should delete only the /old/ version (the one starting at line 259 of the diff, not the one at line 115)
<ScottK> doko_: https://launchpadlibrarian.net/71182201/buildlog_ubuntu-oneiric-armel.cmake_2.8.4%2Bdfsg.1-2ubuntu1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz looks very like the doxygen failure.  Is there some thing that's changed in gcc 4.6 that's related to this?
<soren> ScottK: Nope. Natty amd64.
<dupondje> armel building completely fixed now ?
<cjwatson> popey: whee, bounty.  thanks. :)
<cjwatson> RAOF: I happened to notice (while sponsoring it) that pbuilder in oneiric now claims support for linux-any, FYI
<RAOF> cjwatson: Funky.  Less pointless diff from debian needed!
<doko_> slangasek: maybe, in this case, just build without -flto
<dupondje> ScottK: https://bugs.launchpad.net/gcc-linaro/+bug/675347 looks bit same issue ?
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 675347 in Linaro GCC Tracking "volatile int causes inline assembly build failure" [Undecided,Fix committed]
<ntr0py>  Can someone tell me if the linux sata driver for JMicron JMB362 PCIe to SATA bridge chip would support SATA TRIM commands for use with SSD's?
<dupondje> ntr0py: I would checkout the kernel for that :)
<ntr0py> dupondje: well i have do admit I am not sure if i am able to read the kernel src accordingly to that...
<slangasek> doko_: ok.  that's a bit more awkward than it ought to be, the upstream configure script enables -flto forcibly if supported and has no option to turn it off, hmph
<slangasek> doko_: but yeah, will patch 'n' such
<doko_> slangasek: but please file a bug about it (gcc-4.5)
<doko_> 4.6 I mean
<slangasek> doko_: yep, already filed :-)
<pitti> james_w`: would it be possible to make lp:ubuntu/pkgbinarymangler an alias for lp:~ubuntu-core-dev/pkgbinarymangler/ubuntu instead of the autoimport/
<pitti> ?
<pitti> slangasek: fun, I already ran through process-removals two days ago; there were still hundreds of packages for you?
<slangasek> pitti: yes, because if you just run process-removals by itself, it only looks at removals done during the current calendar year
<pitti> ah
<slangasek> so I think I'll extend it to give it a "last year" option or something, to grab the rotated removal logs too
<dupondje> ntr0py: the driver for it (ahci) has TRIM support
<dupondje> but don't know if its perfect yet :)
<dupondje> use at least natty's kernel
<slangasek> (we could just always use removals-full.txt, but that would be slow)
<pitti> slangasek: yeah, and catch stuff like firefox over and over
<slangasek> well, anything that's in the sync blacklist is ignored by process-removals
<doko> slangasek: are you at some hands, or already adjusting for the new timezone?
<ntr0py> dupondje: yes its claimed to support ahci 1.0 / ncq. Thank you for that information, i will give it a try :)
<slangasek> doko: neither, I'm just up late trying to catch up with y'all over there in Europe :)
<doko> ScottK: is this a new Qt version too? I didn't see doxygen ftbfs in the natty armel rebuild test
<dupondje> doko: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/doxygen/1.7.4-1/+buildjob/2521181/+files/buildlog_ubuntu-oneiric-armel.doxygen_1.7.4-1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<doko> dupondje: you did sync it manually, so can you fix it manually? ;p
<dupondje> doko: it looks alot like https://bugs.launchpad.net/gcc-linaro/+bug/675347
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 675347 in Linaro GCC Tracking "volatile int causes inline assembly build failure" [Undecided,Fix committed]
<doko> dupondje: gcc-4.6 currently is not build from linaro sources
<pitti> uh, perl 5.12 changed the behaviour of split(), which broke pkgbinarymangler (fixing now); I hope it won't break too much other stuff
<Laney> looks like there are some stray binaries in the archive
<Laney> for example pool/universe/libi/libipoddevice/ipod_0.5.3-3.2ubuntu2_amd64.deb
<Laney> which managed to go backward in version due to being deleted and reuploaded I guess: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libipoddevice/+publishinghistory
<slangasek> srsly?  blah
<Chipzz> Laney: isn't that very explicitely forbidden?
<Laney> apparently not by soyuz
<Chipzz> I mean by policy
<slangasek> that was on the list of source packages I processed removals of this week as part of the cleanup; let me see why the binaries are still there
<Laney> slangasek: that wasn't the version which was published in oneiric when you did the removal
<Laney> yet it is nevertheless referenced by oneiric's packages file
<slangasek> yes, I see that - they're from a future version that was never in any release beyond lucid, ick
<Laney> fun :)
<cjwatson> Chipzz: yes
<slangasek> how did that get there at all?!
<Chipzz> slangasek: someone needs a slap on the wrists?
<cjwatson> pitti: to be fair, split in void context was already deprecate
<cjwatson> *deprecated
<Laney> I found out because it makes ben die
<Chipzz> *wrist
<slangasek> only after we congratulate them on their magic trick
<slangasek> Laney: binaries shot
<slangasek> they should bleed to death over the next hour or so
<Laney> slangasek: all affected or just libipoddevice?
<slangasek> Laney: all affected
<Laney> nice, thanks
<slangasek> which is to say, ipod, libipoddevice0, libipoddevice-dev
<Laney> oh, no â I think there were some from other sources
<Laney> let me see
<slangasek> oh; how are you finding them?
<Laney> running ben and seeing where it cries at me :-)
<slangasek> heh
<slangasek> what's ben?
<Laney> debian's transition tracker
<Chipzz> slangasek: MoM's son? ;)
<Laney> release.d.o/transitions
<doko> jamespage: synced rhino from experimental, discarding your no-change changes
<slangasek> Laney: ah
<Laney> figured it would be useful for us too
<Laney> Fatal error: exception Failure("warning: Binary (libre2-dev,armel) without Source!
<Laney> ")
<slangasek> hnngh
<slangasek> oh, those are out-of-date binaries at least, so that's easy enough to explain
 * pitti wonders why the buildds suddenly stopped grabbing stuff
<slangasek> hmm, these should show up on the NBS page, shouldn't they
<slangasek> Laney: right, these are caught by http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/NBS/, so I'm inclined to let nature take its course
<slangasek> which is to say: someone else will get to them, and I will go to bed before falling asleep in my chair
<Laney> ok
<Laney> thanks for your help
<pitti> slangasek: already practicing for European tz?
<slangasek> pitti: something to that effect :)
<cjwatson> slangasek: you really want http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/nbs.html instead these days, BTW
<slangasek> oooh color
<slangasek> thanks :)
<pitti> and automatic cluster detectino :)
<Laney> yeah, I'd appreciate it if someone could clean those up :-)
<Laney> maybe I should fix it to skip over these instead of bailing
<pitti> the powerpc kernel looks like a false positive
<cjwatson> I only just binary NEWed 2.6.39-1
<pitti> oh, it's not
<pitti> cleaning up then
<cjwatson> yeah, it's fine to clean up, we haven't done a d-i build against 2.6.39 yet anyway
<pitti> will also make it easier to read
<pitti> right
<pitti> not that worried about this yet, not with half of the archive still being uninstallable anyway
<pitti> FWIW, lp-remove-package.py vomits on ipod as well
<wgrant> pitti, slangasek: It's because libipoddevice was removed like 10 minutes after it was uploaded.
<pitti> (and libipoddevice-dev)
<wgrant> The new upload hadn't been published yet, so the old one wasn't superseded.
<pitti> ah, so it should become removable in a bit?
<wgrant> So lp-remove-package marked the new one as Deleted, so there was nothing to supersede the old one.
<wgrant> I'm not sure what's going on with the binaries.
<wgrant> Need to check how lp-remove-package determines binary candidates.
<pitti> wgrant: did that break something else in soyuz by any chance? since the hour the buildds stopped grabbing stuff
<pitti> seems they went on strike
<wgrant> pitti: There's an upgrade in progress that needed buildd-manager down for a while. It's not back yet.
<wgrant> Looks like the upgrade is pretty much done now, though.
<pitti> ah
<wgrant> pitti: What happens if you try to do a binary-only removal?
<wgrant> They should basically be NBS.
<pitti> wgrant: that's what I tried
<pitti> wgrant: should I try a sourceful one?
<pitti> lp-remove-package.py -u $SUDO_USER -m NBS -b -y libipoddevice0
<wgrant> pitti: There's no source, so no. What's the error?
<pitti> (is our standard command)
<pitti> wgrant: http://paste.ubuntu.com/604024/
<pitti> perhaps it's already gone, and the publisher just needs to pick it up?
<pitti> (and consequently nbs.html)
 * wgrant checks
<wgrant> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/oneiric/i386/libipoddevice0
<wgrant> It's gone already.
<wgrant> slangasek: Did you explicitly remove the binaries, separately from the source?
<pitti> ah, buildds back on business, nice
<wgrant> Yeah, sorry about that. Backwards-incompatible changes meant our nodowntime deployment had to take down buildd-manager for longer than usual.
<Laney> wgrant: they were stray binaries which apparently didn't get removed in lucid (or something)
<Laney> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libipoddevice/+publishinghistory
<Laney> see the version ordering
<wgrant> Laney: I know how they got there, and what's up with them, but I'm wondering how they were removed.
<wgrant> Because they're gone from oneiric now, and a source removal shouldn't have done it.
<wgrant> Or we have *another* bug.
<wgrant> Which is not unlikely, but still.
<Laney> well, 06/05 10:19:59 <slangasek> Laney: binaries shot
<geser> Laney: I talked to wgrant in #launchpad about it: it was bad timing: pitti deleted libipoddevice (after his upload to lucid) before the publisher managed to supersede the previous version
<wgrant> Ah, missed that line.
<wgrant> Yeah, so please don't delete things 10 minutes after you upload them for now :)
<wgrant> Then everything should be happy.
<Laney> heh
<wgrant> Still doesn't explain why the binaries got left around.
<wgrant> But that might just be because lp-remove-package is ancient and broken.
<pitti> wgrant: is it preferred to use launchpadlib?
<pitti> wgrant: I recently wrote some launchpadlib code to do SRU processing, should not be hard to write a client-side replacement for removal as well
<pitti> (in fact, my "clean up langpack PPA" already does that)
<wgrant> pitti: lp-remove-package is best for the primary archive, unfortunately, since permissions aren't sorted out for deletion on primary archives.
<wgrant> Right, you own the PPA, so you have full control.
<wgrant> Although I guess you might own the Ubuntu primary archive too.
<wgrant> But in general we want to change it so any queue admin can use requestDeletion.
<wgrant> But we're not there yet.
<wgrant> And then, yes, that script can die. Rapidly.
<jamespage> doko:ack - any idea with 1.7R3 will actually hit release status?
<doko> jamespage: no idea :-/  but needed by openjdk-7
<jamespage> doko: yeah - I saw.
<pitti> wgrant: FWIW, the main stumbling block that I currently have are these forced timeouts
<pitti> wgrant: that's what breaks half of my package copies, for which I have to resort to ssh cocoplum/copy-package.py
<wgrant> pitti: Copies from where to where?
<pitti> same for the +queue page and qeue accept
<wgrant> pitti: I know that copies from private PPAs time out a lot now.
<wgrant> But normal syncSource calls to/from public archives should be fairly fast.
<pitti> unfortunately lifeless etc. seem relucatant to disable or increase the timeout for +queue
<pitti> wgrant: -proposed to -updates
<wgrant> pitti: Oh, you use the API for that?
<pitti> wgrant: for some kinds of packages (could be the ones with lots of bug refs) it takes aaages
<pitti> wgrant: yes
<wgrant> pitti: Bugs are the big problem in queue accepts at the moment. Not sure about copies.
<pitti> wgrant: and +queue page for accepting/NEWing stuff
<pitti> wgrant: copying to -updates autocloses bugs, I suspect that's it
<wgrant> If you can get me an OOPS ID for a copy I can have a look. But most of them are the known private->public copy issue.
<wgrant> Yeah.
<pitti> wgrant: next time I publish an SRU
<wgrant> pitti: I'll look through the reports and see if I can find one.
<wgrant> pitti: What day did you see them?
<pitti> wgrant: throughout the last two weeks
 * wgrant syncs the lot.
<pitti> wgrant: unity was one package where it happened, eclipse another
<pitti> (in case that helps)
<pitti> openoffice.org was one from yesterday
<pitti> (natty-proposed -> -updates)
<wgrant> pitti: That helps a lot, thanks.
<wgrant> pitti: I'd been ignoring the syncSource issue since they mostly seemed to be the known issue.
<pitti> wgrant: I once had a linux -updates copy take about an hour (on cocoplum) due to bug refs; back then lifeless said it was due to iterating through _all_ bugs (not just the ones since the previous version)
<pitti> I haven't seen this again, so perhaps that part got fixed
<wgrant> pitti: That particular bug is fixed.
<wgrant> It was a terrible bug heat update thing.
<pitti> but as the time to autoclose bugs necessarily scales with their number, a fixed timeout might never work there, as long as it's synchronous?
<pitti> wgrant: right, that one
<wgrant> pitti: We will hopefully soonish be able to send a request to our as-yet non-existent message queue to close the bugs.
<pitti> wgrant: ah, async FTW!
<wgrant> pitti: The timeout has always been fixed. It was just 20s instead of the 9s it is now.
<pitti> wgrant: right, it just made the +queue page a lot less useful :(
<wgrant> pitti: Yeah. Maybe we can convince lifeless to bump it for a while.
<wgrant> Since we can't do too much until bugs are async.
<dupondje> doko: the patch from https://bugs.launchpad.net/gcc-linaro/+bug/675347 seems not to be in gcc-4.6
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 675347 in gcc-4.6 (Ubuntu Natty) "volatile int causes inline assembly build failure" [Undecided,New]
<wgrant> pitti: I found one of your syncSource OOPSes from yesterday... one second to do the copy, 8 to close the bugs.
<pitti> ah, so it just barely failed
<wgrant> No.
<wgrant> 8 seconds of bug closing before it was killed.
<wgrant> Could have gone on for ages if it wasn't killed.
<pitti> ah, right
<pitti> it took about 10 on cocoplum
<wgrant> :(
<pitti> and it definitively takes a lot longer than 9 seconds on the client side until it fails, more like 30
<wgrant> Huh.
<wgrant> There are a total of three pages that are allowed to take longer than 9 seconds.
<wgrant> This is not one of them :(
<micahg> jfi: I have to run, but you can make those changes I suggested and subscribe ubuntu-sponsors, if you have more questions feel free to ask them here
<jfi> micahg, ok thanks for your help!
<doko> seb128, pitti: please could identify packages to rescore to fix build failures like: https://launchpadlibrarian.net/71177129/buildlog_ubuntu-oneiric-armel.librsvg_2.32.1-1ubuntu1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<ScottK> doko: No.  Same Qt as we had in Natty.
<cjwatson> doko: git would help there.  I've scored it up
<cjwatson> hm, that needs perl work though
<doko> perl should work now
<cjwatson> more modules
<doko> ahh
<cjwatson> doko: how about I chase this down today?  I'm at a bit of a loose end anyway
<doko> cjwatson: cool, thanks!
<cjwatson> doko: I can't promise to work in the exact order of the Perl transition page, though I'll make sure dependencies are satisfied at each step
<cjwatson> doko: were you working on doxygen?
<cjwatson> ah, yes, I see that now
<doko> cjwatson: I did set the armel buildds to manual, to get the uploaded binutils in the archive. please rescore/build/reset to manual for the perl builds
<doko> yes, disabled doxygen-gui for now
<doko> after binutils is built, I'll update gcc-4.6 again to build from the linaro branch
<cjwatson> doko: the other remaining non-trivial problem here is:
<cjwatson>  default-jdk : Depends: default-jre (= 1:1.6-40ubuntu1) but it is not going to be installed
<cjwatson>                Depends: openjdk-6-jdk (>= 6b14) but it is not going to be installed
<cjwatson>  openjdk-6-jre : Depends: libaccess-bridge-java-jni but it is not going to be installed
<cjwatson>                  Recommends: icedtea-netx but it is not going to be installed
<cjwatson> doko: what's the right answer there?
<doko> hmm ...
<cjwatson> oh, bugger, that's blocked on libgtk2.0-0
<cjwatson> I think I'll have to disable Subversion's Java bindings temporarily
<doko> gtk is built, but not atk1.0, which depends on gnome-common
<cjwatson> yes, which depends on autopoint, which depends on git, which build-depends on libsvn-perl, which build-depends on default-jdkd
<cjwatson> *jdk
<doko> which depends on autopoint, which depends on git
<doko> heh
<cjwatson> Subversion is the easiest point to unpick this temporarily, I think
<doko> hurray for unversioned b-d's
<doko> cjwatson: please disable the subversion tests then for this temporary upload
<cjwatson> OK
<cjwatson> I'll just disable Java and the tests on armel
<pitti> thanks cjwatson
<cjwatson> Laney: how often does the perl transition tracker page update?
<cjwatson> readline5 was just demoted to universe.  This breaks ruby1.8, which is in main and still depends on it, so I'm re-promoting it
<cjwatson> (will need to wait another hour for that before being able to build subversion)
<Laney> cjwatson: I haven't cronned it yet
<cjwatson> Laney: ok, thanks
<Laney> but I did update it earlier
<Laney> it requires manual intervention currently due to these NBS binaries
<james_w`> pitti, I think that LP would allow it at least
<james_w`> pitti, would you drop me a mail about it?
<pitti> james_w`: sure, thanks!
<RicardoPerez> Hi! Can anybody tell me how can I submit a bugreport if I find a bug in the geoip.ubuntu.com database?
<RicardoPerez> geoip.ubuntu.com/lookup tells me that my timezone is Africa/Ceuta, but the right timezone should be Europe/Madrid
<p0s> hi. i made a fresh install of natty (amd64, setup over PXE) yesterday. the machine randomly does not boot (with a failure rate of >90%), instead it drops into a purple screen. after adding "nosplash" and removing "quiet" from the kernel command line i was able to see that it drops into an initramfs shell, the purple splashscreen probably hides this. i would like to trace the problem down if someone is here who can help me with it & then file the
<p0s> bugtracker entries.
<p0s> further, adding the "nosplash" option to the kernel command line via the grub menu is also difficult, because grub randomly dies with "alloc magic is broken at 0x3fdb7230" then (failure rate also >90%)
<p0s> the value of 0x3fdb7230 is always the same.
<SpamapS> pitti: re erlang +compressed and +slim .. yes, however, the build seems to fail unless +slim is removed. Upstream was also confused why we'd use +compressed since we also compress the binaries in the .deb
<Laney> cjwatson: doko: right, hourly cronned it at http://orangesquash.org.uk/~laney/transitions/perl.html
<cjwatson> Laney: great, thanks
<Laney> I ought to make it show components too, will do that soon
<cjwatson> doko: I'm about to start subversion and libdbd-sqlite3-perl armel builds, if you're not already
<cjwatson> (I noticed you'd already scored up subversion)
<doko> cjwatson: please go ahead
<cjwatson> ta
<pitti> there, usb-creator using pygi
<cjwatson> subversion/armel failed to find KWallet in configure
<cjwatson> hmm, it succeeds in kakadu's oneiric chroot
<cjwatson> doko: I'm tempted to just disable kwallet support in subversion/armel temporarily - what do you think
<cjwatson> ?
<ScottK> cjwatson: I'd do it.
<ScottK> Qt is somewhat broken on armel due to gcc issues, so it'll burn you sooner or later until that's resolved.
<cjwatson> I figure it'll be easier to debug once oneiric/armel is in better shape generally
 * cjwatson nods
<ScottK> Yep.
<cjwatson> uploaded (and test-building in parallel)
<cjwatson> oh, excellent, apt/armel built
<Pretto> is here the right place to make questions about unity?
<ScottK> Pretto: #ayatana is better.
<Pretto> ScottK:  thank you
<ScottK> You're welcome.
<SpamapS> Hrm.. how do I run this filter as part of my sbuild process? http://wiki.debian.org/ImplicitPointerConversions
<SpamapS> jhunt_: oh joy https://launchpadlibrarian.net/71181279/buildlog_ubuntu-oneiric-armel.upstart_0.9.7-2_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<siretart> is there a particular reason for not processing libav from binary NEW? is there some clarification on the package needed or something?
<ScottK> siretart: I don't think anyone has done binary New for Ubuntu local packages since oneiric opened.
<ScottK> So that doesn't mean the answer is no, but I don't think it still being there is necessarily meaningful.
<siretart> ScottK: err, why do you consider it a 'local' package? it is a merge from debian/experimental
<ScottK> siretart: The only thing that's been processed was stuff that was in New after sync.
<siretart> I see. ok
<ScottK> Local as in not directly sync'ed from Debian.
<siretart> ok
<cjwatson> (Specifically, we have scripts that largely take care of the it-was-synced case.)
 * Laney starts a ghc test build
<p0s> i filed a bug for my boot problems which i described some minutes ago in case anyone wants to comment: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/778520
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 778520 in Ubuntu "Fresh natty install on raid1 does not boot, drops to initramfs shell" [Undecided,New]
<SpamapS> p0s: I did some testing and patching for RAID1 near the end of 11.04's release cycle. that is very troubling.
<SpamapS> p0s: sounds like there's a race condition in there somewhere though
<p0s> SpamapS: well, if you want me to investigate what the issue is, now i am here. i'm also a developer kind of person so you can ask me to do complex stuff.
<SpamapS> p0s: maybe XFS is taking longer thus causing the race to appear
<p0s> SpamapS: also, the machine has successfully booted now, so i can actually read logs etc
<p0s> SpamapS: notice that the fact that BusyBox clears the screen is very bad, because the system DOES print some stuff to the screen before, and i cannot tell what it is because it is cleared away too fast :(
<SpamapS> p0s: yeah not sure why it does that
<p0s> SpamapS: i will be here for the next 3-4 hours at least
<evfool> hi, can anyone help me with a bit of PYGI porting: I'm getting AttributeError: type object 'Widget' has no attribute '__info__'  all the time
<SpamapS> p0s: great.. I'm looking through my notes from the testing.. I do recall being dropped to initramfs once unexpectedly even though the root partition was clean.. and noting "race condition?" but 30 or so boots after that I chalked it up to something I did wrong...
<p0s> SpamapS: well it obviously is some kind of race condition because it DOES boot in 5% of the attempts or so :|
<SpamapS> Ah I found the log I copied. It said md0 was "not ready"
<p0s> SpamapS: i guess the first step would be to figure out whether there is any way to gain a logfile from what happens before initramfs shell drop?
<SpamapS> IIRC, the way it supposed to work, mdadm should be run, "starting" all arrays, and then mounts happen. I wonder if somehow we've accidentally parallelized that.
<SpamapS> p0s: that would definitely be useful.
<p0s> SpamapS: well please figure it out for me, i have no clue how your boot process works :( i can obtain the log files if you tell me how to do it
<SpamapS> p0s: Unfortunately for you, we only do our release testing on the default configurations... XFS isn't in that category. :-P
<ScottK> Maybe you do it that way.  I tested btrfs installs last cycle.
<p0s> SpamapS: well, how likely is it that it is a xfs problem? if it doesnt wait for the mount to succeed that will also happen with other FS
<ScottK> Because doing it the same way every time gets boring.
<p0s> SpamapS: i mean there is nothing special about xfs, you call mount, mount takes some time, then the fs works.
<p0s> SpamapS: also the initramdisk is stored on / which is XFS, so it does seem to be able to pull some data from it
<SpamapS> p0s: can you try booting with the 'debug' option ?
<p0s> SpamapS: kernel option?
<SpamapS> p0s: yes in grub
<p0s> SpamapS: add to kernel command line or to list of grub commands?
<p0s> SpamapS: nevermind, grub doesnt support debug command, so its a kernel option i guess
<SpamapS>     if command -v chvt >/dev/null 2>&1; then
<SpamapS>         chvt 1
<SpamapS>     fi
<SpamapS> I wonder if that is what "resets" the terminal
<p0s> SpamapS: debug added. now it seemed to print even less stuff to screen before it dropped to BusyBox.
<p0s> SpamapS: what now?
<SpamapS> p0s: I'm looking into how we can not clear the screen, can you try alt-f7 though?
<p0s> SpamapS: chvt manpage http://linux.die.net/man/1/chvt
<p0s> SpamapS: ha, alt+f7 shows the terminal which the kernel used before dropping to busybox! nice catch
<p0s> SpamapS: now the only thing which it shows is "Loading, please wait...". without debug it showed more i think, so i guess i shall try what i see there without debug....
<SpamapS> thats interesting too tho
<p0s> SpamapS: ok it shows some errors, hold on, i'll photograph it
<SpamapS> p0s: you get the "best user of the day" award btw. :)
<p0s> SpamapS:  :D thanks. i plan to get one when i file my debian bug report on sambafs, i have a full documentation of EVERY config setting which i changed on the machine. usually do this for reducing cost of OS re-installation. unfortunately this ubuntu machine wasnt reconfigured at all...
 * p0s searches the camera usb cable, hold on
<SpamapS> p0s: I need to get the wife and kids out the door for the day.. will be non-responsive for the next hour mostly.. do not dispair. ;)
<p0s> SpamapS: hold on a second, im uploading the shot right now
<p0s> SpamapS: attachement added: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/778520
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 778520 in Ubuntu "Fresh natty install on raid1 does not boot, drops to initramfs shell" [Critical,New]
<p0s> SpamapS: thanks for your help already. if i'm not in this channel i am still likely to be on this irc server with the same nick, just privmsg me.
<p0s> SpamapS: and of course i'll monitor the bugtracker entry.
<doko> cjwatson: binutils is in the archive, can I re-enable the buildds, or would you like to wait until gnome-common is installable?
<cjwatson> doko: how about we re-enable them but not do a mass retry yet?
<cjwatson> then once the uninstallable count is down to normal we can retry everything
<doko> well the mass-retry did already happen yesterday
<cjwatson> oh.  um, that's interesting. :-(
<doko> I asked lamont for it
<cjwatson> in that case I'd prefer to continue with targeted builds for a while - the buildds are so behind that it would be nice not to waste them
<cjwatson> do we have the new chroots in place yet?
<doko> I didn't hear back from lamont
<lamont> new as in without apt held?
<cjwatson> right
<cjwatson> and preferably refreshed
<lamont> original is back, I'm building a fresh one now
<cjwatson> doko: should cmake build now?
<doko> cjwatson: no, preparing a gcc-4.6 update with linaro enabled on armel for that
<cjwatson> ok
<lamont> cjwatson: how come PPC is the fastest chroot tarball creator?
<cjwatson> haven't the foggiest :)
<lamont> it comes as no surprise that arm is the slowest
<slangasek> wgrant: 10 minutes> how does that explain the binaries being from a later version than the source?
<barry> lamont: got any spare powermac g5 power supplies laying around? :)
<ScottK> First thing Monday it ought to be easy enough to find one 'laying around'.
<wgrant> slangasek: I'm not entirely sure, but it's because ubuntu2 was deleted after its builds had finished but before process-accepted had run. So when process-accepted ran, it published the binaries even though the source was no longer there. Then publish-distro ran, and the new binaries superseded the old ones.
<wgrant> Leaving us with the new binaries and the old source.
<lamont> wgrant: brilliant!
<wgrant> Yes,.
<lamont> cjwatson: your non-arm are fresh
<lamont> arm is still bzip2ing
<lamont> it occurs to me I could bzip2 it on cesium and it'd be faster
<lamont> cjwatson: and arm is now fresh
<ogra_> mmmmm
<SpamapS> p0s: back..
<p0s> SpamapS: ok great... check the picture of the error messages which i attached to the bugtracker entry
<p0s> SpamapS: https://launchpadlibrarian.net/71202020/100_4642.jpg
<SpamapS> yeah.. device or resource busy
<SpamapS> thats exactly what I saw once ...
<SpamapS> so marking it as confirmed
<p0s> sounds like it is trying to mount it twice?
<cnd> where is the natty archive for armel?
<cnd> I've looked at ports.ubuntu.com, but there's nothing there
<cjwatson> http://ports.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-ports/
<SpamapS> p0s: what makes you think twice?
<p0s> SpamapS: well the "device or blah busy" message is what you usually get when you try to unmount something on which there are still open files... thats what i know... so either it tries to unmount it while something is still open... or (just guessing!) it tries to mount it twice
<SpamapS> p0s: its also possible that the RAID isn't actually "started" yet
<cnd> cjwatson, I've looked in http://ports.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-ports/dists/natty/
<cnd> there's no Release file, nor are there any packages in any of the pockets
<p0s> SpamapS: well the initramdisk is stored on the raid, how does grub obtain it, through regular mounting or does it ignore the raid and read it directly from disk by offset?
<SpamapS> p0s: mdadm was updated to a new major revision in natty, so the behavior may be different and we may just need to wait until the md's are actually started.
<SpamapS> p0s: its r/o .. much simpler. :)
<p0s> SpamapS: ok.... notice that i tried "rootdelay=100" and "rootwait" which had no effect
<p0s> SpamapS: it didnt even try to wait it seemed... but i havent checked whether there are different error messages with those, i will do that now
<SpamapS> p0s: what might be interesting would be the output of /proc/mdstat right before mountroot ...
<p0s> SpamapS: rootdelay=100  => same messages as without it
<hallyn> SpamapS: bug 719448, any reason why the lucid-proposed qemu-kvm shouldn't be pushed to lucid-updates ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 719448 in qemu-kvm (Ubuntu Maverick) "The "once" parameter does not work with "-boot"" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/719448
<hallyn> SpamapS: it has been verified for lucid, but not for maverick
<SpamapS> hallyn: 7 days from verification-done, it should move to -updates ..
<cjwatson> cnd: err, all I can say is that you must be getting different results from me for some reason
<hallyn> SpamapS: ah, i see, thanks
<hallyn> SpamapS: i hadn't realized there was that 7 day period :)
<cjwatson> cnd: all the things you mention are present from here
<p0s> SpamapS: rootwait also yields the same errors.
<p0s> SpamapS: well yea the output of mdstat would reveal whether it is running... now how can we make the init scripts output it?
<doko> cjwatson: gcc-4.6 now building on armel
<alexbligh1> When an interface is added/removed, brought up/down, init() does a clone and an exec of ifup/ifdown to try and run the networking scripts. What (exactly) is triggering init to do this, and how can I stop it? I am creating 1,000 odd interfaces, it's taking a huge % of CPU, and am configuring them manually (in fact as they are in a contianer, init & its children can't even see them). Is it udev?
<cjwatson> doko: at some point subversion may even finish.  My test build worked ...
<cjwatson> doko: I'm uploading a load of stuff from the first layer of the Perl transition page now
<SpamapS> p0s: you can add a script to /usr/share/initramfs-tools/scripts/init-premount that does 'cat /proc/mdstat'
<cjwatson> that transition page is awesome
<SpamapS> p0s: you'll need to do "sudo update-initramfs -u" after that
<p0s> SpamapS: and then run update-initramfs i suppose
<doko> cjwatson: is this specific for oneiric?
<p0s> SpamapS: ok. now give me some twenty minutes for an insaneous amount of boot attempts till i get into the system...
<SpamapS> p0s: :(
<cjwatson> doko: YM as opposed to Debian?
<SpamapS> p0s: if you're brave you can probably kick the boot off from the initramfs> prompt
<p0s> SpamapS: (i suppose update-initramfs does need /dev /proc? if it does not i can boot the system w/ usb stick and use chroot)
<doko> cjwatson: yes
<cjwatson> doko: it is, yes.  http://orangesquash.org.uk/~laney/transitions/perl.html
<p0s> SpamapS: i can of course type the commands to boot it into the initramfs shell if someone tells me what they are ;)
<p0s> SpamapS: nevermind, it has just succeeded booting
<SpamapS> p0s: I think you can just try 'exec /sbin/init' .. might be just /init ..
<SpamapS> p0s: \o/
<doko> cjwatson: not tracking powerpc?
<cjwatson> Laney: ^- you seem to have figured out how to get it to track armel from ports - can it look at powerpc too?
<Laney> oh, yes
<SpamapS> p0s: I think I've got it reproducing reliably now here.
<Laney> let's see if that works
<p0s> SpamapS: oh!
 * Laney adds a .txt output too
<p0s> SpamapS: why /ush/share/initramfs-tools/scripts and not /etc/... ?
<cnd> cjwatson, hmmm....
<SpamapS> p0s: by live-degrading the array it seems to happen about 50/50 on the next reboot.
<SpamapS> p0s: good question. /etc may be a better choice :)
<p0s> SpamapS: doh. my array IS degraded.
<p0s> SpamapS: i was planning to tell you about that soon but was ashamed that i didnt do it yet :)
<cnd> cjwatson, could it be some uds domain hijacking or something?
<cnd> I'll have to look into it
<p0s> SpamapS: i HAVE answered the "boot when array is degraded?" question with YES during setup though
<cjwatson> cnd: that's possible, I know there's some archive-level oddness on UDS networks.  Talk to IS
<p0s> SpamapS: also i didnt consider it as a blocker since it is not fatally degraded, its a raid1 with 1 of 2 disks...
<SpamapS> p0s: right.. this doesn't seem to be a problem when both disks are present
<p0s> SpamapS: can you still fix it? i consider installing on incomplete raidsets as something to be likely to be done by someone who uses raid... typically you dont want the resync to be running during setup...
<SpamapS> p0s: no it should definitely work
<p0s> SpamapS: also, the setup UI allows creating incomplete raidsets, which is a nice feature IMHO
<p0s> SpamapS: sorry for not reporting this right from the start.
<SpamapS> p0s: if nothing else, it should be whining about being degraded, not dropping to busybox
<SpamapS> I think the problem is that the mountroot_fail that mdadm registers is not being called
<SpamapS> p0s: no problem, its still very bad
<p0s> SpamapS: if you also responsible for the grub stuff.. i have figured out another possible bug maybe: my grub command list contains "set gfxpayload=$linux_gfx_mode" ... is it supposed to contain a $-variable? /etc/default/grub does NOT set the gfx mode so i wonder whether the grub command list should contain the "set gfxpayload="
<SpamapS> p0s: cjwatson is your best bet for that one.
<Laney> cjwatson: there, added. also s/html/txt/ might be amenable to scripting
<p0s> SpamapS: ok thanks
<p0s> cjwatson: i have figured out another possible bug maybe: my grub command list contains "set gfxpayload=$linux_gfx_mode" ... is it supposed to contain a $-variable? /etc/default/grub does NOT set the gfx mode so i wonder whether the grub command list should contain the "set gfxpayload="
<cjwatson> I am, but not right now - about an hour to end-of-week, and then it's UDS
<cjwatson> yes it is supposed to contain such a variable
<p0s> cjwatson: (talking about a fresh natty install)
<cjwatson> 'echo $linux_gfx_mode' will tell you its value
<cjwatson> it's a little involved, see /etc/grub.d/10_linux for the full logic
<cjwatson> if the default is a problem, there's a PCI-id blacklist facility available
<p0s> SpamapS: the cat /proc/mdstat shows: devices is NOT active!
<p0s> SpamapS: doesnt even list the device.
<cnd> cjwatson, sounds like it's the uds mirror
<cnd> thanks :)
<p0s> cjwatson: "ep" ... is that valid?
<cjwatson> Laney: thanks
<cjwatson> p0s: sounds like a corrupted version of 'keep'
<p0s> cjwatson: argh wait, my monitor is not adjusted, the first part is cut off :)
<cjwatson> should be either 'keep' or 'text', normally
<p0s> cjwatson: yes, it is keep.
<cjwatson> if one breaks for you, GRUB_GFXPAYLOAD_LINUX=text in /etc/default/grub
<SpamapS> p0s: the issue seems to be that on failing to mount, the failure hook is either not being run, or failing silently
<p0s> cjwatson: now the question is: why do i get a purple empty screen instead of proper output if i do not remove the gfx-payload?
<cjwatson> bug
<p0s> cjwatson: grmbl :(
<cjwatson> something's failing to chvt on error
<cjwatson> any VT change should clear the screen contents
<cjwatson> I thought mountroot_fail did a chvt ...
<p0s> cjwatson: two more cents from me: i've set up debian6 a month ago and tried to get a proper terminal resolution with the gfxpayload stuff and the kernel seems to ignore all of it... i AM happy that the ubuntu team seems to be trying to get this to work... 80x25 seems a shame for 2011... so please fix it if you investigate this issue, dont just remove the ability for highres-terminal :)
<cjwatson> I have generally been working with the kernel team to make this work better, and it works on some hardware but not others
<cjwatson> in particular if you're using a binary driver it's quite possible you'll lose
<p0s> cjwatson: SpamapS has just figured out for me some minutes ago that busybox DOES chvt! i
<cjwatson> if chvt isn't clearing the contents, then that's a kernel bug :)
<cjwatson> it's definitely meant to, per what apw told me when he implemented KD_TRANSPARENT
<p0s> cjwatson: (after removing the gfx-payload i get some kernel boot messages and then busybox... busybox clears the screen and SpamapS figured out that the reason is that it does chvt)
<cjwatson> well, there you go, busybox clears the screen, isn't that what you wanted?
<p0s> cjwatson: i only get to see the screen if i remove the gfxpayload!
<p0s> cjwatson: if i dont remove it it stays purple..
<SpamapS> what p0s means is, it switches from tty7 to tty1 ...
<SpamapS> if you alt-f7 it shows what was on tty7 again
<SpamapS> I'm lacking context but that, to me, isn't clearing the screen but rather just switching to another vt.
<cjwatson> I'm failing to understand the exact nature of the problem.  the general design is that you get a purple screen after grub which transitions smoothly to plymouth.  if you want to disable that for debugging, remove 'splash vt.handoff=7' from the kernel command line (and you may wewll want to remove 'quiet' then too)
<cjwatson> *well
<p0s> cjwatson: the debian machine where it doesnt work has intel onboard graphics, the ubuntu machine with the purple screen has a nvidia pciE card w/ nvidia binary drivers installed, but it also didnt work before i installed them....
<p0s> cjwatson: i changed "splash" to "nosplash" and removed "quiet", i did not remove "vt.handoff=7" ... screen is purple with that setting
<cjwatson> remove vt.handoff=7
<p0s> cjwatson: ok will try, hold on
<cjwatson> and remove nosplash since nothing understands that anyway
<cjwatson> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/Grub2BootFramebuffer may be helpful for background, BTW
<SpamapS> cjwatson: seems that memo needs to be printed in a bigger font. ;)
<p0s> SpamapS: now the screen isnt purple anymore... now i get random white boxes instead of letters :)
<p0s> SpamapS: sorry, wasnt for you
<p0s> cjwatson: now the screen isnt purple anymore... now i get random white boxes instead of letters :)
<slangasek> SpamapS: the problem is finding the circulation list for the original memo, since our documentation has never referred to 'nosplash'
<p0s> cjwatson: i'll just blame that on the nvidia card and say thanks to you ;)
<cjwatson> slangasek: usplash used to recognise it
<slangasek> oh, did it?
<slangasek> ancient history ;P
<cjwatson> I think it circulated by osmosis from theere
<cjwatson> *there
<cjwatson> it's harmless though, I just like to dispel myths when possible
<slangasek> does plymouth still parse 'nosplash' as 'splash'? ;)
<cjwatson> hah, actually it isn't harmless for the reason you just gave
<cjwatson> will be easier to fix in the next upstream of plymouth, which has less stupid command-line parsing
<p0s> geez :)
<p0s> SpamapS: do you need further info from me w.r.t. to my raid issue?
<cjwatson> p0s: I do have a test nvidia system on which I've been on-and-off working to try to make things better there
<p0s> cjwatson: what i've also noticed about grub: it seeks my floppy drive and complains about no floppy present even though no floppy was involved in the setup at all
<cjwatson> it's been hard to find the time
<SpamapS> p0s: I can reproduce it reliably now, so I *think* I can get to a fix w/o further input. Please just watch for questions on the bug report, and THANKS!
<cjwatson> hm, if only I had a system that actually has floppy drives on which to work on that ...
<p0s> cjwatson: you got my karma for that :) what i would prefer to have working is the intel onboard graphics on my debian6 though :|
<SpamapS> floppy.. how quaint. :)
<p0s> cjwatson: my debian machine has no xserver and is stuck in 80x25 due to the gfxpayload not working... yay!
<cjwatson> p0s: what does /boot/grub/device.map say?
<cjwatson> this is in fact very odd since we say --no-floppy everywhere in the postinst
<cjwatson> unless you ran grub-install by hand
<p0s> did not do that
<p0s> SpamapS: i installed the floppy drive merely as a closer for the hole in the atx case :)
<cjwatson> hm, drat, we do iterate over floppies at boot time
<cjwatson> I should try to arrange for --no-floppy to be remembered somehow
<SpamapS> The sound of a 3.5" floppy seeking is locked in my head tho.. "Click.. fffvvvrrrrfvvvrrrffvvvvrrrmmp"
<p0s> cjwatson: there is no /boot/grub/device.map
<p0s> SpamapS: during the old days i was able to HEAR when a floppy disk had bad sectors.
<cjwatson> p0s: yeah, that question was based on a misconception, never mind
<cjwatson> bug 560596 I guess
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 560596 in grub2 (Ubuntu) "Grub2: Unexpected floppy access during boot" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/560596
<p0s> cjwatson: ok thanks i will report my grub version to that bug
<cjwatson> no please don't
<cjwatson> it's not needed
<p0s> cjwatson: ok
<cjwatson> I've dropped a quick note in that bug with what I think needs to be done
<p0s> cjwatson: great, thanks!
<cjwatson> (and marked it Triaged etc.)
<p0s> cjwatson: last grub bug i observed today is this: https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/498882
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 498882 in grub2 (Ubuntu) "grub2 crashes randomly 'free magic is broken' with multiple disks" [Undecided,New]
<p0s> cjwatson: comment #9
<cjwatson> generally it's best not to tag onto existing bugs with general symptoms
<cjwatson> that symptom is "something went wrong with memory management" somewhere, and your problem is very likely not the same as that of the original reporter
<cjwatson> better to file a new bug report
<p0s> cjwatson: ok thanks. our freenet project bugtracker feels like a trash dump so i usually think twice before creating new entries
<cjwatson> I appreciate the sentiment, but the thing is that it's easier to mark bugs as duplicate than to split them
<cjwatson> we have bugs that have been dogpiled by lots of different people and are now impossible to ever fix
<p0s> ok
<cjwatson> so the other problem is that this is nearly impossible to debug remotely
<cjwatson> if you can make it happen in a virtual machine and give me a recipe for it, that might help
<cjwatson> or if you can make it happen with 'set debug=all' and take a photo of the last screenful of output (there'll be lots and lots though)
<p0s> ok thanks
<p0s> it doesnt seem to happen right now anymore though :|
<cjwatson> I'm working on updating an old patch with a gdb stub for grub, but it's not there yet
<p0s> maybe the error message it prints should be changed to be more useful to developers?
<cjwatson> it's about as useful as it can be given the information available at that point
<p0s> :(
<cjwatson> because what has happened is that some previous piece of code has corrupted grub's equivalent of the malloc arena
<p0s> it is quite random, it probably depends on the size of the input of the boot-entry editor..
<cjwatson> i.e. a buffer overflow into the bookkeeping area for memory management
<cjwatson> by the time we notice the failure, the offending code has been and code
<cjwatson> *been and gone
<p0s> i remember that stuff from when i was still doing c++ it was such an ultra pain to debug even with an IDE
<cjwatson> what we actually need is valgrind for grub, but, err, slightly not this side of feasible
<SpamapS> Hrm, so it looks like mountroot isn't running the failure hooks
<p0s> cjwatson: i will remember the set debug=all when it happens again
<cjwatson> of course that may perturb the problem into nonexistence
<cjwatson> it's possible 1.99~rc2 will fix it - I'm partway through packaging that
<p0s> nice! :)
<cjwatson> (well, I have it packaged, but I'm working on other changes I'm making at the same time)
<broder> cjwatson: are there any plans to sru updates for the blacklists?
<cjwatson> broder: not from my end, but I wasn't expecting to be the one doing that work - graphics people should, I think
<broder> ok
<p0s> cjwatson: are you also working for debian boot stuff? i could help with debugging why the gfx-payload isnt working on debian w/ intel graphics for me...
<cjwatson> I'm the main person packaging GRUB for Debian, but I don't work with the kernel team there on it
<cjwatson> by and large, if gfxpayload doesn't work, it's a kernel bug
<cjwatson> or sometimes X
<p0s> cjwatson: i dont remember whether it was an issue with grub not passing it to the kernel or the kernel ignoring it actually. if it happens to be a grub problem i will annoy you again :) thanks
<p0s> cjwatson: the machine does not HAVE x, thats why i care about it :)
<cjwatson> I doubt it was the former
<cjwatson> if you set gfxpayload=keep, GRUB just leaves the video mode in whatever state it was in during GRUB rather than switching back to text mode before starting the kernel
<cjwatson> it's mostly a matter of not doing something rather than a matter of actively doing something
<p0s> cjwatson: what could be improved is the documentation or even better /etc/default/grub... it is quite difficult to find usable google results about what the proper way of obtaining a highres terminal is... they are still cluttered with vga=...
<cjwatson> the problem is that it's mostly not grub's responsibility
<cjwatson> there is some text in 'info grub' about it, but it has to defer to other parts of the system
<p0s> cjwatson: i suggest adding a commented out # GFX_PAYLOAD_BLAH to the /etc/default/grub
<cjwatson> I'm not going to add more options there
<cjwatson> the proper place for documentation is 'info grub'
<cjwatson> in current versions of grub, there's a comment at the top of that file linking to the documentation
<p0s> cjwatson: so the manpage is deferred?
<p0s> cjwatson: didnt know that i have to use info :)
<cjwatson> while I love man pages, they aren't really a great place for longer discursive tutorial-type documentation
<p0s> cjwatson: good to know. i thought the "info" stuff was legacy and never looked into it... but i think this is a problem on my personal side, the manpages usually tell you to read the info
<cjwatson> # For full documentation of the options in this file, see:
<cjwatson> #   info -f grub -n 'Simple configuration'
<SpamapS> info: for when you want confused users to forget about their original problem for a while.
<cjwatson> note that I'm also the man-db maintainer, so you can perhaps infer my personal stance on the matter
<cjwatson> but I work in the context of whatever project I'm working on
<p0s> cjwatson: i think the problem which i had back then was finding a full list of all available /etc/default/grub options
<cjwatson> that is what  info -f grub -n 'Simple configuration'  gives you
<cjwatson> (now)
<p0s> cjwatson: ok great.
<p0s> cjwatson: unfortunately i cannot reboot now to check what the gfx payload problem is since this would pull the NFS root of my workstation away, which i am running this irc client from :)
<p0s> anyway, thanks guys, you made me very happy today. i love being able to talk to the responsible developers directly instead of through a bugtracker :)
<cjwatson> heh
<SpamapS> so I think whats happening is that initramfs assumes the root device is *ready* because udev has created it, but in the case of md .. its not ready, its just known..
<SpamapS> specifically wait-for-root seems to return before we can actually monkey w/ the device
<p0s> SpamapS: you're shoveling your own grave... now that i know your name i will come back at you when i try to set up NFSv4 PXE boot :)
<p0s> i've been using pxe boot kubuntu on my workstation for >1 year, i love it. its totally amazing that you only have to change < 10 lines of config for the machine to boot from pxe instead of harddisk...
<p0s> but it only works with obsolete nfs... v2 or v3 i think cannot remember which one
<SpamapS> p0s: I think you'll see it the other way if we start /ignoring you ;-)
<p0s> :)
<SpamapS> p0s: btw I forgot that if you say "debug" it puts all the output in /dev/.initramfs/initramfs.debug
<SpamapS> which is why the output wasn't on the screen. ;)
<p0s> SpamapS: ah... i suppose you dont need it now since you've reproduce it?
<SpamapS> p0s: it would certainly be useful if you could get that and somehow get it off the system and into a file that you could upload
<SpamapS> comparing two affected systems helps quite a bit actually
<p0s> SpamapS: ok
<p0s> SpamapS: the kernel has messaged me "usb 1-8: new USB device blah blah using ehic_hcd and address 2"... but there is no /dev/sdb ...
<p0s> SpamapS: i mean i stuck in an USB stick
<p0s> SpamapS: to save the debug log
<SpamapS> p0s: hmm... did you, by any chance.. fail to apply updates?
<p0s> SpamapS: any idea how i could get the name of the device?
<p0s> SpamapS: the system was installed via PXE setup... netboot.tar.gz is 16mb, so i suppose it pulls ALL packages off the internet... therefore, all packages are up to date as of yesterday
<SpamapS> p0s: can you dpkg -l mdadm ?
<p0s> SpamapS: also i checked yesterday and it said all packages are up to date...
<SpamapS> p0s: ok just checking
<p0s> SpamapS: mdadm --version on the initramfs says: v3.1.4 - 31st August 2010
<SpamapS> thats not what I need
<SpamapS> the package version
<SpamapS> and btw, no, I don't know how to mount the usb thing
<p0s> SpamapS: well i can either try to obtain the debug log now or do the 20 boot attempts required to get the dpkg info
<SpamapS> ok so wait-for-root seems to be the problem.. its returning before the md is actually available.
<p0s> SpamapS: however i suggest you just check whether a new mdadm package was released yesterday or today... if it wasnt, then i have the version which was up-to-date yesterday...
<SpamapS> p0s: I did the last update to it, about a week ago.
<p0s> SpamapS: because as i said the system was installed yesterday with net-setup
<SpamapS> p0s: just making sure
<p0s> SpamapS: well i definitely installed it yesterday
<SpamapS> p0s: that means nothing
<SpamapS> your mirror could be out of date
<SpamapS> or whatever.. dpkg -l is at least definitive
<p0s> SpamapS: ok
<cjwatson> doko: could you look at the lasso build failure at some point when you have a chance?  it's essentially that configure isn't finding jni.h (http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=624777), and I don't know what the proper way to fix that is
<ubottu> Debian bug 624777 in src:lasso "lasso: FTBFS: h_install: liblasso-java missing files (debian/tmp/usr/lib/jni/*.so), aborting" [Serious,Open]
<SpamapS> So interestingly enough.. slowing things down just a little bit by taking 'quiet' off the kernel cmdline makes it a lot harder to reproduce
<p0s> SpamapS: found a way to obtain the debug log, hold on
<SpamapS> ugh but the degraded array is not detected
<SpamapS> seems like we need to check for degraded arrays explicitly, rather than have the kernel inform us by failing wait-for-root
<p0s> SpamapS: http://pos.dyndns.ws/temp/initramfs.debug
<p0s> SpamapS: please be patient while i try to boot the machine for obtaining the package version of mdadm.. i have to stand up and walk to it each time the booting fails....
<tkamppeter> pitti, hi
<SpamapS> p0s: no worries, mine is a VM and I have to re-sync the arrays every time I want to change something. :-P
<p0s> SpamapS: hmm? you can change stuff on degraded arrays, whats the issue?
<SpamapS> p0s: but it won't boot at all until its not-degraded
<doko> cjwatson: mismatch between gcc & gcj version
<p0s> SpamapS: ok fair point
 * p0s is slowly being driven insane from the grub floppy seeking during the zillions of reboots
<p0s> TRTRTRTRTRRTRR
<SpamapS> p0s: reach behind the floppy and unplug it
<SpamapS> ;)
<psusi> someone still has a floppy drive?  I thought I killed all of those in 2004 when I wrote a Floppy driver for ReactOS...
<psusi> shred with extreme predjudice
<doko> cjwatson: lasso uploaded
 * SpamapS recalls when an engineer showed him how to write a program that turned a floppy drive into a floppy degausser
<psusi> hrm.. that shouldn't be possible... it implicitly degauses and then writes as once operation...
<psusi> SpamapS: are you using /dev/md0 or the UUID?  If the UUID, then the uuid link won't be created by udev until the device is ready
<p0s> SpamapS: i think i have reset the damn machine like 30 times now...
<p0s> SpamapS: i will now boot it from usb and check /var/log for mdadm installation log...
<p0s> SpamapS: there you go: mdadm 3.1.4-1+8efb9d1ubuntu4.1
<p0s> SpamapS: if you need any other package versions you can ask now
<Tapis> anybody have some clue about the steps to follow in order to build our own Ubuntu iso FROM an existing  installation, with basic tools, not with a script/GUI/whatever like remastersys :)
<Tapis> ( FROM an existing installation guys, not from an iso, or whatever )
<p0s> Tapis: do you really need an ISO? if you just want to clone the machine then insert the harddisk somewhere else (or boot the machine from usb stick / live cd / whatever) and use dd to copy the harddisk
<doko> SpamapS, stgraber: please give back git on armel in about 30min, then if this is in the archive, autopoint (if cjwatson isn't back then)
<Tapis> p0s: yes... i really need an iso, if it was that easy, i wont ask it ;p
<Tapis> p0s: so, do you have any solution/clue about this ?
<p0s> Tapis: ISO with shiny graphical setup? if you dont need a shiny graphical setup then just customize an existing boot distribution to have a script which writes your disk image to disk..
<stgraber> doko: ok, will do
<Tapis> p0s: i just need, at least, debian-installer ( well... ubuntu-installer, but it's the same :p ), no need to have ubiquity
<Tapis> p0s: and i need to create from an existing installation, what do you mean by "customize an existing  boot distribution to have a script which writes your disk image to disk
<Tapis> ?
<p0s> Tapis: quick google yield: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/InstallCDCustomization/Scripts
<Tapis> ...
<Tapis> are you reading me ?
<Tapis> from an EXISTING installation, not from an iso...
<p0s> Tapis: i meant that you create a disk image of the installation which you want to duplicate, then you create your own linux live cd with a simplicistic wizard for writing the disk-image to the local harddisk
<Tapis> ( i've already give a loog at this link, long time ago... )
<p0s> Tapis: well you asked for the debian-installer, how is the debian installer supposed to install an existing system? the purpose of it is to set up a NEW system...
<p0s> Tapis: you can either go for duplicating an existing system by image OR for customizing the new-system installation process with scripting so you dont have to manually interact with setup...
<Tapis> hell... you don't understand what i want to do :)
<p0s> Tapis: elaborate it
<Tapis> first, you need to know, this is for an "exotic" system, i mean, i run Ubuntu on ps3
<Tapis> then, you need to know, ( again ) that Ubuntu devel team, stop to build iso for the ps3 hardware
<Tapis> so, i have to build my own iso, with an existing installation i run from an external device
<Tapis> ( here the very latest Ubuntu iso image for ps3 : http://hr.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-cdimage/daily/ as you can see, the latest build if from December 2010... )
<Tapis> ok... the guy say "elaborate it" and then, he leave :p
<p0s> SpamapS: sorry, left accidentially.
<SpamapS> p0s: np
<p0s> SpamapS: i suppose you got the mdadm version when i posted it here... need anything else?
<SpamapS> p0s: yes, ty for all the help. I'm starting to understand the issue, though its still quite confusing
<SpamapS> p0s: also for me, booting w/o quiet makes it far less likely to fail
<p0s> SpamapS: thanks for the info, will use that when the issue is fixed and i have to update the packages
<cjwatson> doko: lasso> ah, thanks
 * cjwatson scores up git
<cjwatson> and building
<cjwatson> doko: I don't think autopoint needs to be given-back - it's just a straight unsatisfied dependency
<sconklin> getting the missing audio in pieces, It will all have to be sorted and put in order
<ttx> bdrung_: not sure, apparently tomcat7 grew a dep to eclipse jdt.jar.
<psusi> cjwatson: would you endorse my application for universe-contrib?  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PhillipSusi/DeveloperApplication
<cjwatson> psusi: sure, what's the deadline?
<cjwatson> pitti: gnome-pkg-tools depending on python-rsvg> argh, you couldn't have waited until we got armel rebootstrapped?
<cjwatson> pitti: now gnome-pkg-tools Depends: python-rsvg Depends: librsvg2-common Depends: libgtk2.0-0 Depends: libatk1.0-0 Build-Depends: gnome-pkg-tools ...
<cjwatson> pitti: where do you suggest we resolve this?  back out the gnome-pkg-tools change for a while, maybe/
<cjwatson> ?
<cjwatson> pitti: or is there any other way to avoid the loop?  it's bad for bootstrapping new architectures, too
<cjwatson> though I guess I appreciate the requirement
<cjwatson> pitti: maybe we can just drop python-rsvg and python-cairo for now?  from your changelog, it looks like those are only for the correctness test, and we still get the size reductions without them
<cjwatson> that would let us get armel working again
<infinity> cjwatson: I'd just drop the dep for the purpose of bootstrapping, yeah.
<infinity> cjwatson: If you haven't already.
<cjwatson> yeah, on reflection I'm going to - it makes atk1.0 unbuildable any time it's uploaded and isn't built by all architectures in the same publisher cycle
<cjwatson> because of its tight dependency on libatk1.0-data, and this lop
<cjwatson> loop
<cjwatson> done
#ubuntu-devel 2011-05-07
<cjwatson> argh, debian/control.in
 * cjwatson fixes gnome-pkg-tools for real
<wgrant> pitti: Looking more at the copy timeout I found last night, it actually spent a lot of time sending mail about a question that was attached to one of the bugs. That was made asynchronous yesterday, so it may be better now.
<psusi> cgroups sound nice and all, but weren't process session IDs created for the same purpose?  privileged login process creates new sid, and all processes descended from there are part of it?
<ohsix> no
<ohsix> that's not even a distinguishing feature pf cgroups
<psusi> I'm reading http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/systemd.html and it talks about cgroups as a way to for init to group an entire set of children from which they can not escape... I thought that's what SID was created for, since normal processes can always start a new process group?  and since they can't escape from their session, you can always kill the entire session?
<ohsix> you can trivially lose parentage of processes
<ohsix> cgroups let you group threads with controllers for memory & cpu time and more; that they stay in their groups is just a function of its grouping
<psusi> yea... but normal processes can't change their sid, so even if you aren't their parent anymore, you can still find them can't you?
<ohsix> i think you can, but programs can start a new sid & spawn children at any time
<ohsix> if you're not wait4()'ing on children you can't really get ahold of it
<ohsix> the reaper would have to resort to scanning periodically
<psusi> I thought that was the big difference between sid and pgrp?  that only root can make a new sid?
<ohsix> but with respect to that you can be informed when a group is empty and you directly know whats in that group
<ohsix> any caller can start a new group
<psusi> a new process group, but not a new session I thought?
<ohsix> you should probably say what you mean by a new session if theres a misunderstanding, i'm thinking of setsid(3)
<psusi> so bash can make a new group for task management, but only login can make a new session.. I thought that was the purpose of sessions
<ohsix> there aren't really sessions as you describe them, iirc either the setsid or pgrp stuff just give the leader a pass at the children before it'd be reparented directly to init
<psusi> hrm.. I don't have setsid in section 3 for some reason... but I thought that was root only
<ohsix> you need exttra man pages, sec
<ohsix> manpages-dev & manpages-posix-dev
<psusi> ahh, was missing the posix pages
<ohsix> but just the same, theres not really much overlap
<fo0bar> Hey.  I'll preface this saying I have yet to even try to reproduce this; just looking for a quick visual sanity check.  I don't see how bug#771038 is possible.  from looking at the linker errors, it's like GCC is just ignoring -lpopt
<ohsix> bug 771038
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 771038 in isomd5sum (Ubuntu) "isomd5sum version 1:1.0.5-1 failed to build on amd64 with GCC-4.6/oneiric" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/771038
<fo0bar> (from doko's build logs, it appears i386 is failing too, not just amd64)
<cjwatson> doko_,lamont: armel builders back on auto
<cjwatson> (current main uninstallables: amd64:127, armel:289, i386:127, powerpc:132.  that's good enough to restart autobuilds)
<natschil> Hello. I'm trying to make some changes to ubiquity. I noticed that though ubiquity copies everything in the read-only fs of the livecd, it does not copy things such as the ubiquity program etc. Does it actually copy it, and then remove it, or is there some other process involved?
<cjwatson> it copies it and then removes it
<cjwatson> specifically it removes packages that are in /casper/filesystem.manifest on the CD but not in /casper/filesystem.manifest-desktop
<cjwatson> (scripts/plugininstall.py:remove_extras)
<cjwatson> we do also try to save time by not copying files belonging to packages we're just going to remove anyway, although we can only do that in limited circumstances.  I forget whether that's the case for ubiquity
<fo0bar> BTW, regarding bug 771038, I figured it out.  newer binutils apparently care about the linking order.  Moving -lpopt toward the end of the line fixes it
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 771038 in isomd5sum (Ubuntu) "isomd5sum version 1:1.0.5-1 failed to build on amd64 with GCC-4.6/oneiric" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/771038
<fo0bar> now....  I am a Debian maintainer with a Ubuntu bug (soon to be) fixed.  is there a procedure for saying "you should totally pull this updated deb down from sid to close this bug"?
<cjwatson> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SyncRequestProcess
<fo0bar> thanks
<cjwatson> that's if there are no outstanding Ubuntu changes
<natschil> cjwatson: thanks a lot!
<cjwatson> if there are, somebody needs to merge it
<fo0bar> cjwatson: no, I think MOTU keep it vanilla from debian
<cjwatson> fo0bar: until Debian import freeze (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/OneiricReleaseSchedule), we sync all packages that don't have Ubuntu modifications from Debian unstable automatically
<cjwatson> so if it's in that category, you don't need to do anything at the moment
<fo0bar> ahh.  so worst case scenario, I do nothing and it resolves itself?
<cjwatson> I'd call that the best case, but yes :)
<fo0bar> hehe
<fo0bar> 5 various bugs fixed in one night.  getting laid off has increased my productivity tremendously!
<lucidfox> Hmm, I'm now wondering
<lucidfox> so the Ubuntu 11.10 CD will include GTK2, GTK3, *and* Qt4?
<lucidfox> that's one crowded CD -_-
<cjwatson> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/foundations-o-great-cd-debate
<cjwatson> (scheduled for UDS discussion)
<ogra_> not that we arent discussing it every release :)
<cjwatson> as it mentions in the spec summary ...
<ogra_> ah, didnt read it :)
<cjwatson> pitti: I'm noticing lots of:
<cjwatson> E: libqtscript4-svg: md5sums-lists-nonexisting-file usr/share/doc/libqtscript4-svg/changelog.Debian.gz
<cjwatson> pitti: I don't suppose that's a consequence of your recent pkgbinarymangler changes?
 * ogra_ wonders why btrfs seems to be permanently loaded on his system
<ogra_> apparently the initrd loads it regardless if i have btrfs partitions or not
<cdbs> cjwatson: Can I do lintian and telepathy-haze perl 5.10 rebuilds or you have done that already?
<cdbs> wait, not lintian, but libnet-dns-perl
<cdbs> cjwatson: Okay leave it, I'm not rebuilding 'em, all of those are in main, and I'm too lazy to request sponsorship for 20+ rebuilds which will be done by others for sure in a few days
<bdrung_> jcastro: is it enough to propose a blueprint for discussion at uds-o or do i have to do additional steps to get in on the agenda?
<cjwatson> cdbs: certainly there's no point in doing any that you need sponsorship for - I can do those in bulk a lot more easily
<cjwatson> cdbs: I don't mind if you want to do ones that you can upload directly
<cjwatson> cdbs: I can't upload libnet-dns-perl until libdigest-sha1-perl has built and published on all architectures
<cjwatson> otherwise I'll just have to reupload it for armel later
<cjwatson> (potentially, anyway - it might just FTBFS, but I'd rather be economical with uploads where possible)
<cjwatson> cdbs: it'll generally be easier once armel has caught up - I expect I can then just upload all the level-2 stuff in bulk
<MonkeyDust> folx, these are some issues i encountered in Unity http://paste.ubuntu.com/604430/
<SpamapS> lifeless: you're not joining us in Budapest?
<jcastro> bdrung_: it needs to be named right and then the track lead for that track needs to accept it, then it gets autoscheduled
<jcastro> bdrung_: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2011-March/032813.html
<bdrung_> jcastro: thanks. i didn't set the approver. who is the approver for the "other" track?
<jcastro> bdrung_: those just go in a pile, any track lead can approve those, so you'd want to ping either slangasek or robbiew or jasonwarner
<bdrung_> slangasek: ^ ping for https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-o-eclipse-3.6/
<geser> jelmer: thanks for those bzr-* FTBFS fixes. Did you miss bzr-xmloutput or is there an other reason that you didn't update it?
<jelmer> geser: there's two things I'd like to see merged upstream to fix the testsuite (which is run by the packaging)
<jelmer> I've submitted MPs, waiting for upstream atm
<ximion> hi!#could someone please tell me why there are two libnotify packages in Ubuntu?
<ximion> libnotify4-dev and libnotify-dev
<ximion> Debian has only libnotify-dev, and I maintain a package depending on libnotify-dev >= 0.7
<ximion> ...which does not build on Ubuntu
 * ScottK looks
 * Laney is searching for his passport
<ScottK> ximion: debian/changelog for libnotify4 says "  * Rename source package and -dev binary to be versioned, so that we can install both in parallel for a while."
<ScottK> So it looks like the Ubuntu desktop people needed a newer version but didn't want to do a full transition so they made a secnod one.
<ximion> ScottK: This seems to be unnecessary for Debian: http://packages.debian.org/experimental/libnotify-dev
<ximion> do you know if this will be changed back for Oneiric?
<ximion> if so, I'll not do anything to be Ubuntu-compliant in this case and just wait
<ScottK> ximion: I would guess it's likely.  I will file a bug about it.
<ximion> ScottK, thanks! btw, the package in question is http://packages.debian.org/unstable/gnome-packagekit
<ximion> ..which is named packagekit-gnome for whatever reason
<ximion> should I  file a request to remove packagekit-gnome from Oneiric, so there are no conflicts with the gnome-packagekit package, when it gets merged?
<ScottK> Yes.
<ScottK> FWIW it looks like the work was done in parallel of the Debian work (hit Ubuntu about a day apart from when 0.7 hit experimental), so when the decision was made to do this there wasn't anything in experimental to rely on.
<ximion> ScottK, ok. The gnome-packagekit pkg breaks the packagekit-gnome anyway.
<ximion> ScottK, maybe because Ubuntu Natty still ships GNOME2, while libnotify > 0.7 is a G3 component.
<ximion> (AFAIK an external dependency)
<ScottK> That's likely it.  There are some bits of Gnome3 stuff in Natty, but not all of it by any means.
<geser> should we add a packagekit-gnome -> gnome-packagekit transitional package in Ubuntu?
<ximion> geser, I don't think this is required. gnome-packagekit has a breaks field for packagekit-gnome, so older versions will get removed.
<ximion> and there's no standard component depending on GPK in Ubuntu yet
<ximion> (there might be one if e.g. the USC switches to PK, but I'm not sure if this will happen)
<ximion> ScottK, files bug #779148
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 779148 in packagekit-gnome (Ubuntu) "Removal request for packagekit-gnome from Oneiric" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/779148
<ximion> files -> filed
<ximion> !info gnome-packagekit oneiric
<ubottu> 'oneiric' is not a valid distribution: hardy, hardy-backports, hardy-proposed, jaunty, jaunty-backports, jaunty-proposed, karmic, karmic-backports, karmic-proposed, kubuntu-backports, kubuntu-experimental, kubuntu-updates, lucid, lucid-backports, lucid-proposed, maverick, maverick-backports, maverick-proposed, medibuntu, natty, natty-backports, natty-proposed, partner, stable, testing, unstable
<natschil> Hello. I noticed that some of the oem parts of ubiquity remove cryptsetup if it is not used in the home folder. Does this get carried out on a "normal" ubuntu installation?
<natschil> alternatively... are the "oem" ubiquity packages used at all on the ubuntu livecd?
<superfly> who do I contact to tell them that perl-modules 5.10.1-17ubuntu4.1 is corrupt?
 * superfly has tried downloading it from a few servers, and they all seem to be corrupt
<yofel> it did download for me from de.archive.ubuntu.com today
<superfly> yofel: yeah, it downloads, but aptitude fails with "hash sum mismatch" and when I downloaded it manually so that I bypassed the hash checksum, it failed to unpack it
 * superfly hasn't tried the de server yet though
<superfly> yofel: this is what I get if I download it separately and put the package in /var/cache/apt/archives (and I just downloaded it from de.archive.ubuntu.com) http://pastebin.com/P6mHqUJw
<yofel> I'm clueless then, as for me 'dpkg-deb -x perl-modules_5.10.1-17ubuntu4.1_all.deb p-m/' works fine
<yofel> someone else might know more
<superfly> I'll try that (I'm a bit of a noob when it comes to packages)
<superfly> thanks for the help yofel
<infinity> superfly: Does grabbing it from the librarian result in the same (broken) file?
<infinity> superfly: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-security/+archive/ppa/+build/2458088/+files/perl-modules_5.10.1-17ubuntu4.1_all.deb
<superfly> infinity: I don't know, let me try...
<superfly> infinity: ah yes, that package seems fine
<superfly> thanks, that solves it for me
<infinity> But not for the archive, I suspect.
<infinity> Let me poke at this.
<superfly> thanks
 * superfly is glad he got it fixed, but thinks that others downloading the package would appreciate the same ;-)
<infinity> superfly: Okay, so... The file on the mirrors matches the file in the librarian, so I suspect you're behind a clever (and broken) transparent proxy somewhere that's causing you occasional pain.
<superfly> infinity: hrm, that might be the case
<superfly> I'm in South Africa, and all the ISPs here run transparent proxies
<infinity> superfly: That seems like the most likely explanation, then.  The archive itself is consistant.
<superfly> infinity: thanks for the help
<infinity> superfly: Anyhow, glad to help you get it sorted.
<lifeless_> SpamapS: nope
<mdke> pitti: when the langpacks are built for -updates, will they get translated xml which has been stripped out of packages going into -proposed and -updates?
<mdke> chrisccoulson, ArneGoetje: not sure if you could also help with that ^ (Saw you are in ~ubuntu-langpack) - obviously appreciate it is a weekend and UDS upon us
#ubuntu-devel 2011-05-08
<ohsix> hm is rzscontrol supposed to even work (initramfs-tools-bin) running the exact same steps as in the hook to load it ends up with "Inappropriate ioctl for device" on natty; who's kernel has ramzswap support
<hyperair> rzscontrol is deprecated is it not?
<hyperair> nowadays there's a nice /sys interface for talking to compcache
<chalet16> I would like to create a patch for xorg-server source package but I don't know what prefix number of patch filename should I use.
<chalet16> Is there any guideline for patch number prefix?
<hyperair> i've found that the patch number prefix is often perfectly random.
<hyperair> in fact, with quilt, i don't really bother what my patch number prefixes are any more, because there's a series file that guarantees the order
<hyperair> i think with stuff like cdbs's simple-patchsys you'd need to ensure the order by sticking an appropriate prefix
<ohsix> hyperair: yea but the stuff in initramfs-tools doesn't use zram, it uses ramzswap and rzscontrol
<hyperair> ohsix: right, and that's deprecated with newer kernels.
<ohsix> it's still included though, it just doesn't work
<hyperair> which is a bug. =p
<ohsix> i guess
<hyperair> patches welcome, i think? =D
<ohsix> the kernel review thing i saw said it was postponed
<hyperair> where?
<ohsix> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/hardware-kernel-n-ubuntu-delta-review
<hyperair> hm
<ohsix> it was pretty handy (compcache) in 10.04
<hyperair> yes it is
<hyperair> i have a compcache initscript
<hyperair> http://paste.debian.net/116338/
<ohsix> i dunno what the deal with compcache is in .38 anyways; i couldn't get ramzswap to use a backing device either
<hyperair> the backing device has been removed
<hyperair> and compcache is no longer targeted at swap devices
<hyperair> compcache can now be used with mkfs
<hyperair> ohsix: given that i can still hibernate with the new compcache, i reckon it uses any swap device it can find
<hyperair> without being bound to any specific swap
<chalet16>  When I run  pbuilder-dist natty build ../xorg-server_1.10.1-1ubuntu2.dsc  I got an error "E: File /home/chalet16/pbuilder/natty-base.tgz does not exist".
<chalet16> Do I have to download natty-base file or install some package ?
<ohsix> hyperair: from what i've read it's been removed entirely, and it'd have to have its allocations in a certain arena for them to be swappable and i don't know ho feasible that even is in that context
<ohsix> swappable automatically, that is; and since the code that does it has been removed ...
<hyperair> ohsix: it's now swappable automatically, meaning it can go into any swap. which is good.
<hyperair> well any swap except its own device, i guess
<hyperair> otherwise you get a recursive loop
<hyperair> well these days, i've got enough RAM and ZRAM to not worry about my backing swap. \o/
<hyperair> /dev/dm-2                               partition       4194300 8       1
<hyperair> /dev/zram0                              partition       499996  84888   2
<hyperair> /dev/zram1                              partition       499996  85240   2
<hyperair> the output from swapon -s
<ohsix> nothing from zram was going to any other swap while i was playing with it, i'd have to read the source again to see what it actually does
<ohsix> and as far as i understand, and what i read ages ago in the source was the backing device was a special case anyways
<ohsix> i only mentioned it because loading the module manually to set one also didn't work, in addition to rzscontrol
<hyperair> hm
 * hyperair shrugs
<hyperair> afaik it doesn't actually explicitly swap things now, it just allocates memory using kmalloc or some other function that returns swappable memory, doesn't it?
<ohsix> that's why i'd have to look, it could go either way; i don't think it does but it'd take a minute to confirm :]
<abhinav-> has there been a fix for this bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/os-prober/+bug/432254 ? I cannot make grub2 to let me boot into netbsd :(
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 432254 in os-prober (Ubuntu) "*BSD not detected by os-prober" [Wishlist,Triaged]
<ohsix> yea, it uses kmap/unmap_atomic; and theres no swap handling anymore that i can see
<abhinav-> ah no problem , the comments on the bug report were useful. I made a 06_netbsd file and chainloaded netbsd :)
<abhinav-> perhaps I will like to add support for netbsd to os-prober as I am going to stick to netbsd for long time for my projects and it should be easy enough procedure to make netbsd dual with ubuntu.
<lucidfox> Is someone working on reuploading gnome-shell to oneiric?
<broder> lucidfox: #ubuntu-desktop is probably a better place to ask, but doesn't that need to wait until everything is transitioned to gnome3?
<lucidfox> Well, I don't know :)
<broder> i'd expect it to land in https://launchpad.net/~gnome3-team/+archive/gnome3 before anywhere else, but it doesn't look liek those packages have been re-built against oneiric yet
<broder> hmm...is something up with upload.ubuntu.com's gpg verification?
<micahg> lucidfox: the dependencies for gnome-shell haven't landed yet in oneiric
<cdbs> lucidfox: Expect GS to land in Oneiric within a week or two *after* UDS
<cdbs> Oh, and Unity would also need to be transitioned to the newer libs
<ArneGoetje> mdke: I'm not working for Canonical anymore and therefor am out of the langpack stuff.
<mdke> ArneGoetje: ok, thanks for the response anyway
<c2tarun> my gnome is not accepting my password. When I enter the password the screen goes blank and then comes back to login screen. Why so?
<tumbleweed> c2tarun: presumably your X session is crashing, rather than a password failure (which would just be a message saying you had the incorrect password). Check your .xsession-errors (and try gnome/unity's safe mode)
<c2tarun> I'll try safe mode, but how can I check .xsession-errors?
<c2tarun> tumbleweed: ^^
<tumbleweed> from a VT? / ssh in from another machine? (also, this isn't a support channel :) )
<Viper550> I'm just wondering, did the bugs with the GMA i8xx drivers ever get fixed?
<highvoltage> hey! where are the non-canonical folk chilling?
<Daniel0108> I'm non-canonical :P
<highvoltage> we were down in the lobby and will get there again soon
<highvoltage> (well, a few of us)
#ubuntu-devel 2012-04-30
<cereal__> I have Ubuntu 12.04 installed on a laptop and desktop and trying to use the sync feature in the software center. Both systems are one a logged in to the same ubunt one account. when i click file sync between computers i dont see multiple computers.
<infinity> cereal__: You want #ubuntu, this isn't a support channel.
<cereal__> Sorry just noticed that i will try there - thanks.
<dholbach> good morning
<ritz> morning
<dholbach> does anyone know if an update of tzdata is planned or anyone working on it?
<dholbach> I'm asking because of bug 991156
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 991156 in tzdata (Ubuntu) "Moroccan DST time change needs upgrade" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/991156
* cjwatson changed the topic of #ubuntu-devel to: Archive open | Ubuntu 12.04 (Precise Pangolin) is released! | Dev' of Ubuntu (not support or app devel) | build failures -> http://bit.ly/HaWdtw | #ubuntu for support and general discussion for hardy -> precise | #ubuntu-app-devel for app development on Ubuntu http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment | See #ubuntu-bugs for http://bit.ly/lv8soi | Patch Pilots: ev
<stgraber> yay!
<dholbach> yeeeeeeehaw
<dholbach> great work everyone!
<jbicha_> yay! I've been wanting to break stuff!
<Laney> damn this test build
<Laney> I wanted to be the first
<tumbleweed> bdrung: distro-info-data can be synced to drop teh temporary delta
 * tumbleweed gets the feeling I should just apply for core-dev and be done with it
 * stgraber points tumbleweed towards https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperMembershipBoard/ApplicationProcess :P
<dholbach> stgraber, haha :)
<Laney> core-dev eh
<tumbleweed> you sound supportive :)
<xnox> `ubuntu-distro-info --devel' quantal; yet `pbuilder-dist quantal create' says 'Warning: Unknown distribution "quantal". Do you want to continue'
<xnox> =(
<tumbleweed> xnox: install teh latest distro-info-data
<cjwatson> No, install latest debootstrap
<cjwatson> There's one in backports for precise
<cjwatson> or just  sudo ln -s gutsy /usr/share/debootstrap/scripts/quantal
<xnox> cjohnston: ;-)
<tumbleweed> err, yeah, that too :)
 * xnox my mirror is out-of date? I have nothing =)
 * xnox nevermind upgrading debootstrap ;-)
<bdrung> tumbleweed: synced
<barry> xnox: welcome!  what's your lp id?
<xnox> barry: dmitrij.ledkov
<xnox> barry: hello barry =))) let the python fun begin!
<barry> xnox: indeed!  http://tinyurl.com/7dsyywo  :)
<tumbleweed> that's a non-trivial amount of fun to be had
<xnox> barry: right after reviewing LVM2 merge (slangasek) & fixing gcc-4.7 FTBFS (doko)
<xnox> barry: ;-)
 * xnox will try to "multi-task" if that is possible.
<barry> xnox: sounds like folks are already keeping you busy :)  no worries!
<doko> barry, you are just too late ;-P
<barry> doko: the curses of being westward
 * xnox accepts biscuits as 'queue' prioritisation tokens.
<ahasenack> hi, can someone upload/move these packages to updates? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/landscape-client/+bug/978884
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 978884 in landscape-client (Ubuntu Oneiric) "SRU: release 12.04.3 for lucid, natty and oneiric" [Undecided,Fix committed]
<ahasenack> I believe the sru process is finished, it has the tag "verification-done"
<cjwatson> @pilot in
* udevbot changed the topic of #ubuntu-devel to: Archive open | Ubuntu 12.04 (Precise Pangolin) is released! | Dev' of Ubuntu (not support or app devel) | build failures -> http://bit.ly/HaWdtw | #ubuntu for support and general discussion for hardy -> precise | #ubuntu-app-devel for app development on Ubuntu http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment | See #ubuntu-bugs for http://bit.ly/lv8soi | Patch Pilots: ev, cjwatson
<cjwatson> should try to squeeze a bit in before the end of the month :-/
<xnox> cjwatson: Dear Pilot, how do I schedule myself to pilot sponsorship queue ? =)
<cjwatson> xnox: talk to dholbach
<xnox> ok.
<dholbach> thanks cjwatson!
<spotter> is this raid5 corruption bug in Ubuntu 12.04's kernel?
<spotter> http://marc.info/?l=linux-raid&m=133576777720867&w=2
<spotter> could be a major major data loss bug
<cjwatson> #ubuntu-kernel is probably a better place to ask
<mdeslaur> spotter: please file a bug and mention it in #ubuntu-kernel
<spotter> ok
<spotter> unsure its a bug, only know that I had a main disk failure, installed ubuntu 12.04 on a new disk, had issues so moved to debian squeeze, and then realized my raid5 was corrupted
<spotter> mostly recovered though might have some corruption left over from shot in the dark attempts at recovering
<cjwatson> jtaylor: You seemed to be on top of bug 986279, which now has another response
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 986279 in hg-git (Ubuntu) "can't clone the repo: ValueError: need more than 1 value to unpack" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/986279
<jtaylor> not response I wanted, now I need to do real work ;(
<jcastro> slangasek: jasoncwarner_: jdstrand: You guys have things in your scheduling queue for UDS: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/sprints/uds-q/+settopics
<cjohnston> slangasek: and jasoncwarner_ also on http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-q/review/
<slangasek> cjohnston: um.  is there a way to disallow using that interface for adding sessions on a particular track?
<pkern> Hi.  Is it actually possible to sync from the Launchpad web interface instead of using requestsync?
<slangasek> cjohnston: all of foundations' sessions should be done as blueprints; I've gone in and declined everything that was proposed there, but people shouldn't be submitting sessions there in the first place
<micahg> pkern: syncpackage is the preferable way
<slangasek> cjohnston: in fact, the submitter has re-proposed these as blueprints
<cjohnston> slangasek: no there isnt a way to do that
<iamfuzz> is there a standard mechanism for having a dir in /var/run created on boot or is this still the responsibility of the init script?
<infinity> iamfuzz: The init script or the application itself.
<iamfuzz> infinity, thx, just wanted to make sure there wasn't a standardized mechanism in place
<infinity> If there is, I missed the memo too.
<micahg> isn't /var/run deprecated now?
<cjohnston> slangasek: if you get a moment, would you mind replying to my email please
<iamfuzz> well, yea, it's /run now but symlinked
<infinity> micahg: His same question (and the answer) applies just as well to /run. :P
<slangasek> cjohnston: will do
<cjohnston> ty
<doko> apw, ogasawara: when will be 3,4 headers be available in precise?
<doko> ehh, quantal
<cjwatson> pkern: it's *possible* in the web interface, but we prefer people not to use it as it doesn't have Ubuntu policy applied such as prompting people for extra confirmation of any Ubuntu changes they're discarding
<ogasawara> doko: am hoping for eod today, but tomorrow at the latest.  am waiting for some test builds to finish.
<cjwatson> pkern: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2012-January/000923.html is most current practice
<pkern> micahg, cjwatson: Thank you!
<barry> kenvandine: you probably already saw this, but hopefully this correctly removes a dependency on mx.DateTime: https://code.launchpad.net/~barry/gwibber/bug-990145/+merge/103956
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 96842 in webboard (Ubuntu) "duplicate for #103956 webboard doesn't comply with the new Python policy, so is broken" [Undecided,Fix released]
<barry> kenvandine: btw, once we get rid of gwibber's dependency, we can drop python-egenix-mxdatetime and python-egenix-mxtools from the list of py3 ports required.  which is great because upstream isn't interested in a port any time soon :)
<kenvandine> barry, awesome!
<ahasenack> hi, can someone upload/move these packages to updates? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/landscape-client/+bug/978884
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 978884 in landscape-client (Ubuntu Oneiric) "SRU: release 12.04.3 for lucid, natty and oneiric" [Undecided,Fix committed]
<ahasenack> I believe the sru process is finished, it has the tag "verification-done"
<infinity> ahasenack: Will poke.
<ahasenack> infinity: thanks!
<infinity> ahasenack: Done.
<ahasenack> infinity: \o/
<nessita> hello everyone! I was wondering if someone could help me understand this fraction of an update log http://paste.ubuntu.com/958246/ , where a user ended up without the package providing a SSO client UI. The message I'm puzzled about is:
<nessita> ubuntuone-client:amd64 Recommends on ubuntu-sso-client-gui [ amd64 ] < none > ( none ) (>= 2.99.91) can't be satisfied!
<hyperair> hmm debootstrap still doesn't know about quantal just yet
<tumbleweed> hyperair: precise-backports
 * barry loses to tumbleweed again
<hyperair> tumbleweed: why precise-updates?
<hyperair> er why not
<tumbleweed> wasn't my call, but it looks like that's how its usually handled
<hyperair> is it?
<hyperair> i don't recall needing to install debootstrap from -backports previously
<tumbleweed> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/debootstrap
<hyperair> aah, it looks like precise was included in debootstrap before oneiric's release
<tumbleweed> yeah, we only knew quantal's name after the release candidates were being spun
<hyperair> makes sense
<broder> we haven't really been totally consistent about backporting vs. sruing for new release names
<tumbleweed> given the way distro-info-data breaks, it has to be SRUed (we should find a way to degrade a little more gracefully)
<tumbleweed> but other things like debootstrap tend to be a little more nice-to-have
<tumbleweed> (anyone can ln -s gutsy quantal)
<joshhunt>  i'm not sure if this is the right forum, but i have a question as to where ubuntu grabs the sources it uses for the qemu-kvm package
<joshhunt> when i checkout v0.14.1 from the linux-kvm.org git repo some things do not seem to match up
<joshhunt> when comparing to the corresponding ubuntu source package
<jdstrand> jcastro: regarding scheduling> yes, mdeslaur added those today and I will be looking at it tomorrow
<infinity> doko: openjdk on arm* seems sad?  See the antlr build failures in quantal.
<cjwatson> @pilot out
* udevbot changed the topic of #ubuntu-devel to: Archive open | Ubuntu 12.04 (Precise Pangolin) is released! | Dev' of Ubuntu (not support or app devel) | build failures -> http://bit.ly/HaWdtw | #ubuntu for support and general discussion for hardy -> precise | #ubuntu-app-devel for app development on Ubuntu http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment | See #ubuntu-bugs for http://bit.ly/lv8soi | Patch Pilots: ev
<cjwatson> oops, forgetful
<Nafallo> cjwatson: you just don't like to stop working... do you? :-)
<doko> infinity, any other failure?
<infinity> doko: That's the only scary thing I've seen so far.
<cjwatson> doko: We have approaching 9000 pending build records, I'm sure there'll be something for you :-)
<doko> infinity, ahh, still defaults to jamvm
<infinity> Well, there was llvm-2.x failing with gcc-4.7, but I intend to just drop pre-3.x llvm instead of fixing them.
<doko> cjwatson, no, I just meant openjdk, leaving the remaing failures for the +1 team ;)
<infinity> Shipping 4 versions is insanity anyway.
<doko> infinity, go ahead
<infinity> doko: Oh, oops. (re: jamvm)
<infinity> doko: Quick fix?
<doko> tomorrow
<infinity> doko: I meant "will it be quick", not "oh god, fix it quickly". ;)
<doko> just packaging
 * infinity nods.
<doko> I did hope to catch up with things like adminstrative stuff this week ...
<cjwatson> barry: python-gnupg> in a rush, eh? :)
<barry> cjwatson: well, a guy can hope, right?
<barry> :)
<jcastro> vanhoof: "topic-quantal-hwe-essential" isn't named right
 * slangasek renames it to zachary-quinto-hwe-essential
<jcastro> vanhoof: follow the crowd please! https://blueprints.launchpad.net/sprints/uds-q
<barry> slangasek: i think you have to wait for spockian squid or maybe vulcan vulture
<Nafallo> jcastro: that doesn't mean Ubuntu will change from unity to gnome-shell, does it?
<slangasek> :)
<vanhoof> jcastro: thanks, sorted
<soren> cjwatson, mdz, pitti, stgraber, kees: tb meeting?
<xnox> While MoM is down, we can still use: http://people.ubuntuwire.com/~lucas/merges.html which seems to be uptodate with unstable.
<xnox> or http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/multidistrotools/main.html for whezzy/quantal comparison.
<tumbleweed> and merging by hand with UDD isn't too painful (although I have a script somewhere that automates most of it)
<slangasek> "merging by hand with UDD"?  I would consider merging with UDD the opposite of by hand :)
<tumbleweed> not in the days when you had to fight it tooth and nail :)
<barry> i guess you have nails on your hand, but toothnails?
<dupondje> If a -proposed package has been verified & working by multiple people
<maxb> barry: Hi. What bzr version were you using for your "bzr branch ubuntu:precise/debootstrap precise" ?
<dupondje> Should I subscribe somebody to get it in -updates or ?
<cjwatson> dupondje: tag it verification-done and the SRU team will promote it to -updates after a mandatory seven-day waiting period
<cjwatson> it'll show up on http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/pending-sru.html - no need to subscribe anyone
<barry> maxb: 2.5.0 (default in precise)
<dupondje> aha its in the list already! thx cjwatson
<maxb> barry: Hm. Same. And it works fine for me. Though I question why it had to download ~70Mb
<barry> maxb: interesting.  let me try it again...
<barry> maxb: same crash
<maxb> oh, wait, I have the are-you-up-to-date checking turned off
<xnox> email ubuntu-devel about ~lucas/merges.html; btw it does show UDD commands to use ;-)
<barry> maxb: i'm sure it doesn't matter, but i'm branching into a shared-repo (nothing else in it tho)
<micahg> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/quantal/+localpackagediffs as well
<cjwatson> micahg: Please don't use that
<micahg> even as a reference?
<cjwatson> If you're careful to do so yourself, sure, but you didn't include any kind of caveats when you just recommended it to others
<cjwatson> And it has no guards against overwriting Ubuntu changes
<infinity> I use it to find packages I hold TILM on.
<micahg> me too :)
<micahg> cjwatson: sorry, I keep forgetting to mention the caveats, will try to remember next time
<maxb> barry: ugh. I think you've found a bug in the check-the-package-version-in-the-branch code
<barry> maxb: awesome ;)
<maxb> Workaround: launchpad.packaging_verbosity = off in bazaar.conf
<broder> infinity: re: foundations-q-isa-scanning, would using lintian be an option here? it has a bunch of "go dig inside elf internals" tests already; this feels up its alley
<barry> maxb: in the [DEFAULT] section?
<barry> maxb: to answer my own question: yes :)
<infinity> broder: If lintian can be made to do this, perhaps.
<broder> i won't swear that it can, but i think it can. and i end up re-scanning the whole archive as a matter of course every 3 months or so
<infinity> broder: It would certainly be valuable for Debian too (though, the baseline ISA per arch would be different for them in many cases)
<broder> (that can also probably be accelerated if needed)
#ubuntu-devel 2012-05-01
<tertitten> This may be the wrong channel to ask in, but if anyone have any tips I would appreciate it. I've recently built a distro/respin of openSUSE which I've been working on for a long time now, i'm now starting to regret using suse as base, so for building a distro based on ubuntu what tools is recommended ? UCK, Remastersys?
<directhex> ubuntu doesn't have any tool remotely as elegant as suse studio
<tertitten> directhex, no, maybe not, but I'm willing to dig in :)
<sladen> tertitten: probably UCK
<tertitten> sladen, OK, I'll look into that one then, there a few to chose by it seems :)
<tertitten> thanks
<xnox> Good Morning!
<RAOF> Hey, ho!
<jodh> Is the binary package control file "Tag" field documented somewhere?
<RAOF> jodh: What are you seeing with a Tag field?
<jodh> RAOF: an example would be "apt-cache show casper|grep ^Tag:"
<RAOF> Ah, debtags!
<RAOF> That should be the magical google juice.
<jodh> RAOF: thanks! Wondering why they aren't mentioned in the Debian Policy manual if they are official though?
<RAOF> Possibly because they're not quite that official, possibly because they don't need to be - AFAIK debtags are completely confined to their own universe, don't affect maintainers, and don't affect apt.
<geser> cjwatson: even if the check for pre-depends on dpkg is going away, packages which failed to upload because of it need to get it added anyways, right?
<jodh> RAOF: since "Tag:" is optional like some other binary source control fields and since it is used in packages in stable Debian releases, it sounds pretty official to me, so should atleast be referred to in the Policy Manual imho.
<jodh> RAOF: thanks for the pointer though - I have now found some docs :)
<cjwatson> geser: no - the LP change to make that no longer required should be deploying RSN (today/tomorrow, haven't checked yet this morning)
<cjwatson> jodh: the reason Tag isn't documented in policy is that policy chiefly documents things that package maintainers need to do to ensure interoperability, and Tag is applied at the archive level as an override - package maintainers don't set it
<jodh> cjwatson: I don't fully understand - in the case of casper, the tag is specified in debian/control.
<cjwatson> jodh: casper is foolish
<cjwatson> we don't have debtags working at the archive level for Ubuntu yet, but when we do, it isn't going to involve laboriously pushing tags into source packages
<jodh> cjwatson: ok, thanks.
<enrico> RAOF: and possibly because people think like you do, then don't get used as much as they could
<geser> could someone please give-back "libpam-mount"? thx
<Traumflug> Hello all :-)
<Traumflug> Well, I've found a bug in one of the packages (surprise!) shortly before 12.04 was released and fixed it.
<Traumflug> Now the merge request is apparently stuck: https://code.launchpad.net/~mah-jump-ing/ubuntu/precise/pcb/fix-for-988503-2/+merge/103767
<Traumflug> What could I do about this, after all it's just a click from a member of the Ubuntu-Bugs group missing.
<geser> Traumflug: as it's listed on http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/sponsoring/index.html someone should review it in the next days
<cjwatson> geser: libpam-mount> done
<Traumflug> Thanks, geser
<hyperair> hmm weird. how does ubuntu go about rebooting?
<hyperair> it looks like /etc/rc6.d has S90reboot
<hyperair> which implies that reboot should be called with a start argument
<hyperair> but the script itself only responds to a stop argument
<hyperair> so clearly that's broken
<hyperair> and kexec-load which follows the same logic is broken in the same way
<geser> hyperair: is perhaps rc6 special-cased somewhere as the other S-scripts have only a working stop argument too
<hyperair> geser: but kexec-load doesn't seem to work.
<hyperair> sorry, i meant kexec itself
<hyperair> hmmm
<geser> hyperair: just took a look in /etc/init.d/rc and runlevel 6 (and 0) hardcodes the action to stop
<hyperair> i see.
<hyperair> thanks, i guess it's failing elsewehre
<hyperair> i'll try poking at this later
<cjwatson> geser,micahg: data.tar.xz is now safe to use in quantal without a Pre-Depends.  I've given back all the (four) upload failures resulting from the previous situation.
<geser> thanks
<geser> bdrung: do you plan to upload a devscripts where dch defaults to quantal soon?
<jalcine> Which audio system is better to develop with?
<jalcine> alsa or pulse?
<jalcine> or should I let gstreamer handle all that jazz?
<jalcine> err
<apw> @pilot in
* udevbot changed the topic of #ubuntu-devel to: Archive open | Ubuntu 12.04 (Precise Pangolin) is released! | Dev' of Ubuntu (not support or app devel) | build failures -> http://bit.ly/HaWdtw | #ubuntu for support and general discussion for hardy -> precise | #ubuntu-app-devel for app development on Ubuntu http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment | See #ubuntu-bugs for http://bit.ly/lv8soi | Patch Pilots: ev, apw
<vipin> can any one tell me the process how to configure oracle instant client with php on linux machine
<ion> Please see the topic.
<vipin> i dont know about the topic i want solution please
<Pici> vipin: this isn't a support channel.
<vipin> where i can fins the solutiob
<apw> are we expecting to need new explicit build depends for flex in quantal ?
<cjwatson> apw: flex always required a build-dependency
<cjwatson> maybe the kernel just wasn't using it before?
<apw> cjwatson, i guess htats possible, or something we used to depend on used to fluke it in for us ...
<cjwatson> possible
<cjwatson> looks like you need pkg-config and bison too
<apw> cjwatson, yeah, adding now ... shame all our builders are in a heap ... sigh
<apw> (our kernel team ones)
<bdrung> geser: you can go ahead and do this ubuntu upload
<bdrung> geser: it's time to merge the dch changes to debian and query distro-info
 * cjwatson considers the interaction of absolute_import and update-manager
<cjwatson> this is actually one of the few cases I've seen where it's not obvious, due to the umpteen ways its modules are shipped
<cjwatson> I guess I need to use the new relative import syntax
<geser> bdrung: will take a look what I can accomplish with short free time
<phillw> Hi good people, I hve no idea how to help on this one. on boot up the system halts with error [ 8.980960] pcmcia_socket pcmcia_socket1: cs: IO port probe 0x3000-0x7ffff: excluding 0x3000-ox30ff 0x3400-0x34ff 0x380-0x38ff 0x3c00-0x3cff
<phillw> Do any of you have an idea what it is complaining about / how to fix it?
<bdrung> geser: can you code perl?
<bdrung> geser: there are some requests around this part of dch.
<geser> bdrung: not really, it's enough to read some perl (as long it doesn't use it's magic $ variables) and to patch simple things
<bdrung> me too.
<sconklin> @pilot in
* udevbot changed the topic of #ubuntu-devel to: Archive open | Ubuntu 12.04 (Precise Pangolin) is released! | Dev' of Ubuntu (not support or app devel) | build failures -> http://bit.ly/HaWdtw | #ubuntu for support and general discussion for hardy -> precise | #ubuntu-app-devel for app development on Ubuntu http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment | See #ubuntu-bugs for http://bit.ly/lv8soi | Patch Pilots: ev, apw, sconklin
<infinity> That's quite the pilot party going on in the topic.
<geser> redundancy :)
<geser> two pilots can crash and we still have on pilot left flying
 * infinity doesn't think he could call apw a "hot spare" with a straight face.
<mdeslaur> hehe
<ketan_> .
<hyperair> jbicha_: ping. will clutter 1.10.4 be sru'd to precise?
<vibhav> Can somebody nominate https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/wxmaxima/+bug/887806 for oneiric and precise?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 887806 in wxmaxima (Ubuntu) "wxmaxima is not in the 'open with' nautilus menu" [Undecided,Fix released]
<vibhav> (Reproducable in both)
<tumbleweed> you think that's important enough to SRU?
<apw> infinity, i am spare
<infinity> apw: That's not the half of the term I was debating. ;)
<apw> infinity, you were debating that ... seems unlikely :)
<vibhav> tumbleweed: Then how will the bug get fixed in precise?
<tumbleweed> vibhav: it wouldn't :)
<tumbleweed> vibhav: I'll nominate for precise
<tumbleweed> done
<vibhav> tumbleweed: I meant oneiric
<vibhav> Does this mean that the user will never get the bug fixed?
<vibhav> (in onerirc)
<tumbleweed> vibhav: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates#When
<tumbleweed> I wouldn't consider that a high-impact bug. But if you do, I suggest worrying about precise first. If the SRU team agrees with you, do another SRU for oneiric
<vibhav> ah
<vibhav> And where can I contact the SRU team
<tumbleweed> they'll see it when there's a pending upload in precise-proposed
<vibhav> ah, thanks
<dupondje> damn alot of people are complaining about Remmina missing copy/paste :p
<cyphermox> dupondje: point them to how to enable -proposed ;)
<jbicha_> hyperair: are there particular bugs you're following that are fixed by clutter 1.10.4?
<hyperair> jbicha_: scrolling
<hyperair> jbicha_: i've filed a bug on launchpad with a patch.
<hyperair> jbicha_: scrolling in gnome-sushi is broken.
<dupondje> cyphermox: copy/paste fix not in proposed yet :)
<cyphermox> dupondje: oh, right
<cyphermox> I keep mixing both
<cyphermox> dupondje: was copy-paste working before in remmina? otherwise it may be hard to justify it being a SRU fix ;)
<Laney> is it fixed upstream / in quantal?
<cyphermox> Laney: not yet either
<dupondje> cyphermox: it never worked in remmina
<cyphermox> aye
<dupondje> BUT, its only since 12.04 that remmina is default
<dupondje> it worked in Vinage/rdesktop ...
<dupondje> so its bit tricky :)
<cyphermox> dupondje: you said your fix was ready right? can we upload this to quantal now?
<Laney> depending on how severe the fix is, it could probably go
<Laney> i suggest you get upstream review
<cyphermox> Laney: it's copy-paste support in remmina
<dupondje> https://github.com/FreeRDP/Remmina/commit/263ae6c3971f442ca5a8cfc1b5a5cde6736a062f
<Laney> yeah, I Got that
<Laney> nice
<cyphermox> nice, so it's upstream too
<vibhav> What version do I use for SRU which are mergers from Debian?
<Laney> well, that patch is pretty large
<dupondje> true ...
<Laney> I don't know if the SRU team would have it
<vibhav> merges*
<Laney> but regardless the first step is to get it fixed in quantal
<vibhav> (The previous version is 11.08.0-1 )
<cyphermox> dupondje: then we can have it reviewed by the sru team too
<tumbleweed> vibhav: we don't merge for SRUs. But rather apply a minimal targetted patch
<vibhav> tumbleweed: ah, So what version do I use?
<vibhav> tumbleweed: 11.08.0-1ubuntu1 ?
<Laney> is it an SRU into precise?
<vibhav> yeah
<Laney> there are some version guidelines https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdatePreparation#Packaging here
<Laney> most important is that precise <= precise-proposed <= precise-updates <= quantal
 * dupondje is going to look if all Remmina patches in Ubuntu are upstream
<dupondje> then we could get 1.0.1 out ^^
<cyphermox> dupondje: cool
<jbicha_> hyperair: I believe scrolling is still broken in gnome-sushi and gnome-documents
<vibhav> tumbleweed: Done, could you please review https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/wxmaxima/+bug/887806 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 887806 in wxmaxima (Ubuntu Precise) "wxmaxima is not in the 'open with' nautilus menu" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<hyperair> jbicha_: no it's not, not in git master.
<hyperair> jbicha_: the commit i isolated, when cherry-picked, solves the issue. it's running happily on my laptop right now
<jbicha_> hyperair: but I'm using clutter 1.11.2 which is basically git master
<hyperair> jbicha_: it isn't.
<jbicha_> http://git.gnome.org/browse/clutter/log
<hyperair> oh hey there wasn't a 1.11.2 on my tree
<hyperair> nor was there a 1.10.4
<tumbleweed> vibhav: seems reasnoable
<hyperair> jbicha_: are you sure it still doesn't work in gnome sushi? =\ it works here.
<hyperair> just the cherry-picked commit
<vibhav> tumbleweed: What did you mean?
<hyperair> b746044415ba8eb2d4c4263aeec038257f1bf2f3
<tumbleweed> vibhav: I mean it looks good
<vibhav> ah, thanks
<jbicha_> hyperair: yes, I've rebooted and scrolling isn't working in sushi in Unity, there aren't any scrollbars and keyboard navigation doesn't work
<hyperair> jbicha_: if keyboard navigation doesn't work, it's probably a different issue.
<vibhav> tumbleweed: Could you sponser it?
<vibhav> sponsor*
<hyperair> jbicha_: keyboard navigation works for me even without the patch, but scrolling didn't, and the scrollbars are nonexistent
<jbicha_> hyperair: yeah, maybe some stuff is improved but things still aren't working right
<hyperair> jbicha_: which filetype are you testing with?
<hyperair> jbicha_: i'm using pdf, which uses libevince
<geser> could someone please give-back "tipa"? thx
<jbicha_> hyperair: .txt, keyboard navigation seems to work for PDFs like you said
<tumbleweed> vibhav: you were the last uploader for mercurial. Are you going to request a sync?
<vibhav> tumbleweed: sync for?
<tumbleweed> there's a newer version in Debian. It's your responsibility to see if the changes we applied in Ubuntu are still relevant
<vibhav> ah, let me see
<vibhav> tumbleweed: I can see http://selenic.com/repo/hg/rev/80f3ae36f908 in the debian version
<tumbleweed> vibhav: yup, that's why I suggested a sync :)
<Darxus> What does "Toolchain Uploaded" on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QuantalQuetzal/ReleaseSchedule mean?  Quantal repos will be created two days from now?
<vibhav> tumbleweed: So should I sync?
<tumbleweed> vibhav: well, if you merged, there wouldn't be anything left that's ubuntu specific. So yes, I think so
<cjwatson> Darxus: that's a deadline, it's actually done already
<Darxus> cjwatson: Okay, so changes that will only be permitted in quantal can be made now?
<cjwatson> Darxus: sure
<Darxus> Cool, thanks.
<Darxus> When does packages.ubuntu.com start showing quantal packages?
<jdstrand> cjohnston: hi! I am the track lead for the security team and have some questions surrounding setting up roundtable meetings in summit. do you have a moment to help me?
<vibhav> tumbleweed: done: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mercurial/+bug/992696
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 992696 in mercurial (Ubuntu) "Sync mercurial 2.1.2-2 (universe) from Debian sid (main)" [Undecided,New]
<hyperair> jbicha_: does scrolling work for pdfs with the new clutter?
<geser> Darxus: ask Rhonda (e.g. in #ubuntu-motu) about her plans when this will be done
<Darxus> geser: Getting quantal packages in packages.ubuntu.com?
<lynxman> silly question, how can I create a quantal machine in pbuilder-dist (precise) or shall I still test my packages for quantal against precise for the moment?
<geser> Darxus: yes
<Darxus> Thanks.
<geser> lynxman: install debootstrap from precise-backports (or create the missing symlink yourself)
<lynxman> geser: cool, ty :)
<jbicha_> hyperair: yes, except for the lack of scrollbars
<hyperair> jbicha_: were the scrollbars there to begin with?
<hyperair> jbicha_: they're not there in oneiric either.
<jbicha_> hyperair: probably not
<hyperair> jbicha_: so could we have 1.10.4 or otherwise cherry-pick the commit for precise-proposed?
<hyperair> not being able to scroll a pdf makes gnome-sushi pretty useless in that arena
<jbicha_> hyperair: you could upload 1.10.4 to p-proposed if you want, I was just curious if we already had LP bugs that it fixed
<hyperair> jbicha_: yes, i filed a bug, and uploaded a debdiff.
<hyperair> bug #990302
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 990302 in clutter-1.0 (Ubuntu) "Scrolling for embedded Gtk+ widgets is broken in Clutter" [Undecided,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/990302
<hyperair> jbicha_: ^
<hyperair> i don't have upload access to main
<jbicha_> hyperair: ah ok
<hyperair> jbicha_: i was wondering if 1.10.4 was giong to be uploaded into precise-proposed, though. that would make the cherry-picking pointless.
<jbicha_> I think I'll just upload 1.10.4, thanks
<hyperair> jbicha_: thanks.
<jbicha_> hyperair: can you convert your bug into an SRU bug for 1.10.4?
<hyperair> jbicha_: sure, but i don't really have the time for it right now. i have an exam tomorrow that i should have been studying for this afternoon but ended up bisecting that clutter bug instead. ;-)
<cjohnston> jdstrand: pong
<jdstrand> cjohnston: hi! I saw your email and watched the video. I'm fine with how to create meetings/sessions for the most part, but I have questions on how to approve them. I know about +settopics and used that for approving things that were in launchpad
<cjohnston> yup
<jdstrand> cjohnston: however, it is customary for my team to have roundtables as the first session of each day
<cjohnston> yup
<jdstrand> cjohnston: I created those in summit, but don't know how to approve them or how to make them be the first session of the day
<jdstrand> ie, if I click 'Admin', I'm simply told I don't have privileges to change anything
<cjohnston> if you are assigned as a track lead, and have the "Create a meeting" vs the "Propose a meeting" your meetings are auto scheduled
<cjohnston> jdstrand: hangout?
<jdstrand> cjohnston: ok. (fyi, I don't have 'create a meeting')
<cjohnston> jdstrand: you have propose a meeting?
<jdstrand> yes
<cjohnston> hrm
<cjohnston> one sec
<jdstrand> which is what I used (and I am the security track lead)
<cjohnston> can you do a hangout?
<cjohnston> or phone if your US
<jdstrand> sure
<cjohnston> grr
<nigelb> sabdfl: mind joining classroom channels? :)
<sabdfl> nigelb, will do, on the hour
<nigelb> sabdfl: Thanks!
<Laney> my, these patch pilots sure are dedicated
<sconklin> @pilot out
* udevbot changed the topic of #ubuntu-devel to: Archive open | Ubuntu 12.04 (Precise Pangolin) is released! | Dev' of Ubuntu (not support or app devel) | build failures -> http://bit.ly/HaWdtw | #ubuntu for support and general discussion for hardy -> precise | #ubuntu-app-devel for app development on Ubuntu http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment | See #ubuntu-bugs for http://bit.ly/lv8soi | Patch Pilots: ev, apw
<Laney> :P
<infinity> ev, apw: Do you two plan to patch pilot for the next week? ;)
<apw> @pilot out
* udevbot changed the topic of #ubuntu-devel to: Archive open | Ubuntu 12.04 (Precise Pangolin) is released! | Dev' of Ubuntu (not support or app devel) | build failures -> http://bit.ly/HaWdtw | #ubuntu for support and general discussion for hardy -> precise | #ubuntu-app-devel for app development on Ubuntu http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment | See #ubuntu-bugs for http://bit.ly/lv8soi | Patch Pilots: ev
<Monotoko> hey, why are users homes not set, by default, to 600 any more?
<Monotoko> (12.04)
<mdeslaur> Monotoko: they've never been set to 600 on ubuntu
<Monotoko> mdeslaur, really? I could never access another users files unless I was root/had sudo permissions on 10.04
<mdeslaur> Monotoko: see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Policies#Permissive_Home_Directory_Access
<Monotoko> mdeslaur, thank you... would it not be a good idea to have this as an option in Ubiquity when you install?
<mdeslaur> Monotoko: I don't think adding an install option for that would be useful for most users. If you're technical enough that you know what you want, you can easily change it after installation.
<Monotoko> mdeslaur, most users will assume by default that their directories are protected, even Windows asks up front if you want protection
<mdeslaur> Monotoko: most users want to share files. Even OS X has permissive home directories by default. This has been discussed to death already.
<Monotoko> mdeslaur, which is why I'm suggesting adding it as an option during the install process, just a tickbox... I've just had my mother going through all my files thinking she had her own account and I was the sudo user... I was never informed otherwise
<Monotoko> generally... if I add another account on my PC, it's because I don't want the person using it inside my account
<infinity> Monotoko: As mdeslaur says, it's been discussed to death.  You're probably not going to argue any points that haven't already been argued.
<infinity> Monotoko: We don't tend to add questions to the installer (in fact, we prefer to remove them), and this isn't something that matters to most people.  To the people it does matter to, they have very polarised opinions, and we decided to go with permissive homes.  It's simple to change the default.
<Monotoko> infinity, so I don't understand why it's still not an option... or at the very least given on the screen as information during install, you have to actually go looking for the information (which most home users don't do) or find out the hard way when someone can access your files
<mdeslaur> Monotoko: you can also check the "Encrypt my home directory" checkbox during install, which is a lot better than simply changing permissions on your home directory
<infinity> (And, if I recall, this is the same default Windows has and, no, I don't recall it ever asking during install if I cared, so "they do it better/different" is a straw man)
<infinity> Monotoko: Surely, you realize that if we asked/informed about every feature/option that everyone thought was important, the installer would be a mess, right?
<maco> one more tickbox = twice as many code paths (exponential increases)
<Monotoko> infinity, it was just an example, in Windows setting a password is optional (bad) but if you set one, it then also asks if you want to make it private
<infinity> Monotoko: Just because this one's important to you, doesn't mean it's the same one that's important to everyone.
<maco> +1 to encrypting your home dir
<Monotoko> infinity, okay... maybe not during install, but at least when you're adding a user? It can't be too hard to write some text saying that user will be able to access others homes if you don't do "this" (hell, I would do it if you'll accept the patch?)
<Monotoko> if it's been discussed to death... it's probably because people get burned by this, just like I have
<infinity> It's been discussed in both directions.
<maco> Monotoko: i believe the option to encrypt your dir so that it is really-for-reals not going to be seen by others is in the add-a-new-user dialog, but if it's not, that's a bug
<infinity> Permissive homes are somewhat of a UNIX tradition.  I tend to find it a bit shocking when people expect otherwise, and don't check.
<maco> changing the permissions just means i reboot your box into single user mode to see your data
<maco> encrypting it prevents tht
<Monotoko> infinity, as I say... I come from a Windows background (sadly) ;)
<infinity> Permissive homes are also the Windows status quo.
<infinity> Unless that changed in 7 or 8 when I wasn't looking.
<infinity> But it certainly was in all previous NT releases.
<infinity> Just sayin'.
<infinity> And it never "asked".
<maco> i recall being able to see others' files in xp, but maybe they changed it in vista when they tried to bolt security onto a broken window?
<Monotoko> infinity, Windows XP does ask when you set a password on your account
<Monotoko> it brings up a dialog with some text that tells you that other users can still see your files, and would you like to make them private
<Monotoko> *asks if you would
<infinity> I'm pretty sure I've never seen this dialog.  But alright.  It's somewhat unrelated to the discussion anyway.
<Monotoko> infinity, http://i.techrepublic.com.com/gallery/94185-500-363.png
<Monotoko> I know I'm side tracking, and I know Windows isn't the best example of good security, but surely you see my point?
<infinity> My never seeing this probably has to do with never having installed a system without a password.
<infinity> Anyhow.  Like I said.  Unrelated.  We offer an "encrypt your home directory" option in the installer.
<infinity> I'm failing to see how that's not enough.
<infinity> Relying on UNIX file permissions to save you from people with physical access to a machine is a losing battle.
<infinity> And on server with many users, I'd expect people to know how to change the default, if they want to.
<infinity> (Most multi-user systems tend to prefer permissive, though, cause man, it's a pain to share things otherwise)
<Monotoko> infinity, do you really think a user migrating from Windows is going to hit the encrypt button? It has some negative connotations for whatever reason amongst most users, a real life analogy would be your neighbour walking into your home uninvited, now if you invited them (laxed the permissions or shared something with them) then it's different
<Monotoko> if I want someone to access my home, I add them to my user group... the point is that the default should usually be the safest option, or at least warn you that your door is unlocked and anyone on the system can walk in
<Monotoko> it just... doesn't sit right, I mean the root user is disabled because that's the safest way and stops users getting into trouble or screwing it up and it's secure, then you completely take a turn around and lax permissions around users
<infinity> Dude, it's a simple thing to change.  I think when several people say "It's been discussed to death" what we mean is "your opinion won't change how it's been for the last 8 years", but we're trying to avoid coming off like jerks.
<infinity> There's nothing "lax" about permissive homes as they are.  We take great pains to make sure that we store private data in less permissive directories (see ~/.ssh, ~/.config, etc)
<larsduesing> aehm, short question - how to get rid of bug attachments in launchpad, which are not sent by me?
<larsduesing> (there are login-data in an attachment...)
<infinity> larsduesing: Oh dear.  I can hide that and escalate for more permanent removal.  /msg me a number?
<larsduesing> done
<Monotoko> infinity, sorry... I've had a bit of a day today with the default.. just thought I'd come talk to you guys, but if I'm hitting a brick wall it's fine, il remember it in future ._.
<infinity> nixternal: For instance, "apt-cache show coreutils | grep ^Task" will show you that it's in minimal.
<infinity> nixternal: If you're not generating those headers (via extra overrides fed to apt-ftparchive, or some other hackish method), you have no tasks.
<nixternal> and let me guess, seeing as i am using a ppa right now for testing, something tells me that I can't get/set task headers
<infinity> nixternal: Uhm, yeah, you're going to have to do that sort of thing locally.
<infinity> nixternal: Of course, you can build in the PPAs, download the debs, and then do the local apt-ftparchive scanning.
<infinity> nixternal: So, all is not lost. :P
<nixternal> fun fun, thanks dude for pointing me in some sort of direction. at least it is closer than the direction i was heading :)
<nixternal> even better, i have a local buildd with local apt-ftparchive
<infinity> doko: Erm, you traded broken multilibs on armel for broken multilibs on armhf?
<doko> infinity, the armhf gcc-multilib should be installable. do you think it's not?
<doko> infinity, I thought the tex mess was fixed? https://launchpadlibrarian.net/103804133/buildlog_ubuntu-quantal-i386.gcc-snapshot_20120501-1ubuntu1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<infinity> doko: It needs a publisher run still.
<infinity> doko: I'll do a mass give-back when it's happy on all arches.
<doko> thanks, afk now
<infinity> doko: As for the gcc-4.7 multilib thing, it's FTBFS on armhf...
<infinity> doko: Same way as it was previously on armel.
<infinity> doko: Didn't you notice that in your PPA?
<doko> infinity, sure, but the current binaries are installable
<infinity> Well, yes.  I was just referring to the part where it's obviously still broken. ;)
<infinity> The old ones should still work for now, yes.
<doko> it's in a state that I can upload to quantal directly. this improvement was worth the binary copy
<infinity> Heh, fair enough.
#ubuntu-devel 2012-05-02
<adam_g> slangasek: any thoughts on whether the precise fix for bug #990742 should be targetted toward openldap or cyrus-sasl2 (like it did in debian)?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 990742 in openldap (Ubuntu) "slapd fails to upgrade: requires libsasl2-2 (>= 2.1.24) installed" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/990742
<slangasek> adam_g: it needs fixing in both packages; cyrus-sasl2 needs to add the necessary Breaks and bump the shlibs, and openldap needs rebuilt against the fixed cyrus-sasl2 to get the right dependency
<nixternal> infinity: hey, thanks again for your pointers earlier. i think i am finally on to something with apt-ftparchive & overrides for the Task. finally i see Task where I need to, now just hope the live-build works as planned :)
<nixternal> on that note, I am going to go hunt down a beer, i have spent the better part of today hacking together a derivative skeleton using the proper tools. none of that remasterthis crap :D
<pitti> Good morning
<ajmitch> hi pitti
<dholbach> good morning
<xnox> Good Morning! =)
<sveinse> debootstrap --variant=minbase is the absolute minimal system which is capable of proper installs with apt-get/dpkg, right?
<cjwatson> sveinse: yes
<cjwatson> That's Priority: required + apt
<dupondje> my sweet valgrind, why you don't run with X-forwarding :(
<henrix> pitti: hi! I have this bunch of kernel pkgs copied into the wrong component... could you take a look at this?
<pitti> henrix: I'm already at it
<henrix> pitti: cool, thanks
<apw> which component makes the 'when lid is closed, suspend, when power is critically low' etc ?  is that gnome-settings-daemon ?
<pitti> henrix: RAOF copied the kernels this time, and we wanted to try whether the +queue page works for overriding
<pitti> apw: yes, g-s-d does the policy decisions, upower is the d-bus backend to actually "do" the actions
<apw> pitti, i have a situation where the setting for "when power is critically low" is unset (probabally set to hibernate which is disabled) and this leads (on battery near empty) a wake from suspend/resuspend loop till power death, g-s-d or upower for the bug ?
<cjwatson> pitti: I thought it was well-known that it doesn't :-)
<pitti> now I do :)
<pitti> so this is still a situation where only a person with cocoplum access can do the copying
<apw> pitti, this is the copy from PPA to -proposed I assume.  i almost wonder on those if we could have a cronjob; given uploading to -proposed is 'open'
<pitti> apw: yeah, I already mentioned this a while ago -- as there is nothing to decide for the SRU team, the copying shoudl/could just be done by the kernel team themselves
<pitti> I'm not sure whether the copying requires ~ubuntu-archive privileges, but it might not
<cjwatson> Copying shouldn't
<pitti> but anyway, fixing components needs an archive admin
<apw> pitti, oh hmmm though the component overrides are an issue, but could we cron those perhaps
<cjwatson> They won't be sanely cronnable yet; maybe after I APIify overrides
<apw> but yes i assume anyone with upload rights for those package ought to be able to copy them
<pitti> apw: at least you could do all the copies which don't involve ABI bumps
<pitti> apw: right
<pitti> apw: so if you want, you can try running copy-proposed-kernel.py when the next kernel is ready
<apw> pitti, i assume if its an abi bumper and i copy them they ought to go into (New) cause of the new binaries
<pitti> apw: no, they don't; they will be in unapproved just as regular kernel syncs
<pitti> s/syncs/copies from PPA/ (they appear as "sync" on +queue)
<pitti> apw: copies with binary packages from PPAs evades NEW
<apw> ahh i see
<pitti> they are auto-accepted into universe
<pitti> (which is the whole problem -- on the NEW +queue page we could override them to main)
<apw> ahh, poop, i see
<cjwatson> is there an LP bug about that?
<cjwatson> it should determine NEWness relative to the archive being copied into, IMO
 * pitti looks
<pitti> I can't find one
<pitti> I'll file one
<cjwatson> thanks
<pitti> apw, cjwatson: Filed as bug 993120, sub'ed kernel and SRU teams
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 993120 in Launchpad itself "Copy from PPA with binaries evades NEW and puts new packages into universe" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/993120
<cjwatson> pitti: "from where any archive admin or SRU team member could override them to main" - er, well, only if you want to override *all* binaries in the upload to the same component (bug 828649)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 828649 in Launchpad itself "queue UI: apparently no way to override individual binaries" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/828649
<pitti> cjwatson: yes, but in all releases since natty we can do that
<cjwatson> sure
<pitti> for lucid there are still some binaries which are in universe, and those still need manual overriding
<pitti> that's why I'm so insistant on having all binaries in main, as it makes the biweekly processing so much easier
<cjwatson> I'm just cautioning against forgetting that this restriction exists, because at some point somebody will try to generalise this beyond the kernel
<cjwatson> though I do hope to lift this restriction soon as part of API exposure
<pitti> right, but that's a general limitation of the +queue page
<pitti> for that, and for general component-mismatches we'll still need a lplib api for changing overrides, of course
<cjwatson> yep, on its way
<pitti> it is? great!
<cjwatson> I've been working on it for a while, though shelved it for release
<pitti> thinking about it, change-override.py is 90% of why I'm logging into cocoplum
<pitti> the other 10% is manual diffs for large packages when the automatic diff is wrong or doesn't exist
<cjwatson> if you happen to remember any of the remainder that isn't on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/ReplaceArchiveAdminShellAccess, please do log it
<pitti> but that's not a principal limitation, and is possible on the client-side too
<pitti> yep, will do; I think I read that page a while ago already, it came up on some ML
<cjwatson> yep
<pitti> oh, and lp-remove-package.py, of course (but that's also covered already)
<cjwatson> indeed
 * cjwatson runs out of obvious morning archive admin work to do.  Is it really the beginning of the cycle? :-)
<cjwatson> (I think the new auto-sync procedure is just that much easier; I'm sure I've never more or less caught up on new packages this quickly before)
<Laney> removals? :-)
<cjwatson> caught up on those too, at least those since 2012-04-01
<cjwatson> I think I got most of the earlier ones pre-release
<tumbleweed> I swear I've seen UTF-8 characters in names not get mangled before? https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/quantal-changes/2012-May/000210.html
<cjwatson> https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/362957
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 362957 in Launchpad itself "Ridiculous unicode transliteration on -changes announce list From: header" [Low,Triaged]
<tumbleweed> ah, good
<cjwatson> though that's not quite the same bug; similar
<tumbleweed> yeah, not the same
 * tumbleweed files a new one
<dupondje> meh, the ppa builders are quite buzzy atm.
<geser> cjwatson: when you processed removals, did you process only new ones or old forgotten ones too? like "tcpquota", "cradle" or "libmoosex-chainedaccessors-perl"
<cjwatson> geser: only the relatively recent ones; happy to go back and look again, roughly what date were those removals done in Debian?
<geser> cjwatson: tcpquota: 2010-07-01 and the last two 2012-02
<cjwatson> wow, that's odd
<cjwatson> old
<geser> going through tumbleweed's neglected package list I found one package more: "libnode-vargs" (2012-02-02)
<cjwatson> tcpquota never showed up in the ftpmaster removals list
<cjwatson> removing it manually now
<cjwatson> libmoosex-chainedaccessors-perl has an rdepends: libhtml-formfu-perl, waiting for that to build first
<cjwatson> (new version that drops the depends)
<cjwatson> cradle rdepends channel-server, which claimed to be replaced by a package called "buddycloud-server" which has never made it to testing
<cjwatson> though to be fair neither did channel-server, so I guess it doesn't lose anything
<cjwatson> this is the kind of reason packages don't get removed at the time :-)
<cjwatson> libnode-vargs is in the same cluster
<cjwatson> synced buddycloud-server, I'll see if that manages to build
<cjwatson> geser: for future such cases, probably best to just file bugs, as they may well need analysis like this
<geser> cjwatson: will certainly do, I didn't look at those packages in detail yet. And I never know if a bug is needed or not (because the package will get removed on the next round of importing removals).
<cjwatson> you can assume at this point that anything before about April isn't going to get removed automatically
<cjwatson> if there's a bit of duplication, well, shrug
<geser> ok
<henrix> pitti: sorry to bother again, but it looks like we have a few more pkgs landing on the wrong place
<jdthoodEtrawsfyn> I can't find this information in the Launchpad help: when report X is marked as a duplicate of report Y, do comments on Y get mailed to the submitter of X, or not?
<hrw> I see that quantal got nice set of upgrades ;)
<cjwatson> pitti: have you had to use sru-release on cocoplum at all since we switched to the async copy method?
<pitti> cjwatson: no, never; this is rock solid
<cjwatson> can I nuke it then?
<pitti> please do
<cjwatson> 22 bottles of beer on the wall
<cjwatson> pitti: also, does anything still use sru-pending on cocoplum?  that looks kind of obsolete
<pitti> cjwatson: indeed it is -- 21 bottles!
 * cjwatson nukes
<cjwatson> slowly but surely
<dupondje> those ubuntu-mozilla-daily ppa builds eat all resources
<dupondje> bastards!
 * pitti waves with the CoC
<chrisccoulson> dupondje, those daily builds aren't really daily for most releases. they are biweekly for most, which already makes my life significantly more difficult when something does regress on one release
<chrisccoulson> (ie, bisecting 4 days of commits as opposed to 1)
<dupondje> you should get a dedicated buildbox ;)
<chrisccoulson> i'd like that!
<cjwatson> doko_: could you merge at least the part of the gdb packaging that removes type-handling?  it's the last thing in the archive that uses it, and type-handling is due for removal
<cjwatson> (I'd do it myself but I don't know if you want to do a more general packaging merge)
<doko_> on my list, but not now
<cjwatson> sure
<dupondje> chrisccoulson: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mozilla-daily/+archive/ppa/+build/3454000
<dupondje> its stuck ?
<dupondje> Started 2012-05-01
<sveinse> Is it mandatory to set the locale on a debootstrapped system? I see the armel roostock tool sets the locale, but it seems a bare system works fine without it.
<cjwatson> most things will work fine; you'll get some tedious warnings if you chroot into it with locale environment variables set
<cjwatson> you don't need to generate locales if you leave the locale environment set to C
<hrw> [   232.828] could not open default font 'fixed'
<hrw> someone remember since when fixed font became required again?
<RAOF> hrw: That's the new libxfont I believe.
<hrw> RAOF: will test with precise one than
<pitti> henrix: fixed harder now
<pitti> henrix: â¥ that bot :)
<henrix> pitti: thanks :)
<hrw> RAOF: thx, kdm booted up with precise one
<hrw> RAOF: Bug #992745 already
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 992745 in libxfont (Ubuntu) "X doesn't load in Quantal, downgrading libxfont1 to Precise version fixes it" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/992745
<cjwatson> slangasek: stealing your dh-autoreconf merge, since it's an easy sync
 * dupondje smiles to chrisccoulson 
<mdeslaur> Is this a known lucid-precise upgrade issue? https://plus.google.com/104216419012637157644/posts/JFeMQRkDyPi
<cjwatson> not one I've seen, we'd need the full logs
<tumbleweed> bug 990740
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 990740 in python-defaults (Ubuntu) "upgrading from lucid to precise fails" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/990740
<cjwatson> aha
<tumbleweed> I've just been arguing with some people in it about that issue
<tumbleweed> (was pointed to it by an update-manager refusenik who'd hit it)
<cjwatson> including the poster of that G+ notice.  I've followed up with directions on attaching logs
<tumbleweed> thanks
<cjwatson> ... twice, since I got it wrong the first time
<vibhav> Since https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/eggdrop/+bug/885329 is fixed in Debian, should I work on an SRU for oneiric or work  on quantal?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 885329 in eggdrop (Ubuntu Oneiric) "eggdrop crash on i386" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<dupondje> first on quantal
<vibhav> dupondje: And then a different debdiff for quantal?
<dupondje> anyway, eggdrop is a dirty one
<dupondje> debian doesn't have ssl
<dupondje> we have
<dupondje> but ssl support is unofficial patch, which is crap .... :)
<vibhav> dupondje: I meant, do then I need to create a debdiff for a SRU as well?
<dupondje> ofc
<dupondje> the smaller, the better :) only with the fix
<dupondje> for quantal you can do a merge
<vibhav> what about onerirc?
<vibhav> s/oneiric/precise/
<dupondje> you could try to get that SRU'ed also
<dupondje> but oneiric is old ;)
<vibhav> Its still supported
<dupondje> I really think we should drop the SSL support custom patch :)
<infinity> dupondje: I imagine the SSL support is there specifically because some of us connect to SSL-only servers.
<vibhav> ^
<vibhav> Since, I am merging, should the changelog entry be "/debian/patches/foo : Merge from Debian Unstable (LP: #bugno)" ?
<vibhav> or the description of what the patch does?
<mvdk> Does debian intend to import the current debian tiff package?
<ogra_> mvdk, how do you mean ?
<mvdk> Sorry
<mvdk> Does ubuntu intend to import the present debian tiff package into quantal?
<ogra_> we surely sync/import whats there
<ogra_> so if its in the debian archive it will very likely soon show up in ubuntu
<ogra_> (quantal that is)
<ogra_> syncing has just begun
<mvdk> But does that happen if there's a version with "ubuntu" in the name?
<cjwatson> Is that tiff3?
<ogra_> then it will show up on merges.ubuntu.com (once that runs reliably again)
<cjwatson> That's one of the ones waiting for manual review because it overwrites an *ubuntu* version.
<mvdk> Normal tiff
<cjwatson> That'd need a merge, then, yes.
<dupondje> infinity: the thing is that the ssl patch is quite buggy
<ogra_> and someone (usually the last uploader in ubuntu) will have to do a manual merge
<cjwatson> Well, the last change was a security update, let's see
<cjwatson> It's probably been applied in Debian too
<cjwatson> Yeah, in 4.0.1-2
<cjwatson> Also in tiff3 3.9.6-2
<mvdk> BTW, when does stuff land in backports, and on what basis?
<cjwatson> Manual request
<mvdk> So lodge a bug
<cjwatson> You can use the 'requestbackport' tool to help
<cjwatson> tiff+tiff3 look good to sync, to me; I'm just going to double-check diffs and then do that
<mvdk> It depends on jbigkit
<cjwatson> Which is already in quantal
<mvdk> but isn't in main
<cjwatson> *shrug*
<cjwatson> Having something depend on it is the usual first step anyway
<cjwatson> It'll show up for promotion then
<mvdk> Cool
<cjwatson> Hm, maybe I had better file an MIR first, I guess
<cjwatson> (jbigkit)
<xnox> new lintian tag: maintainer-address-causes-mail-loops-or-bounces Ubuntu Core Developers <ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com>
 * xnox hugh?!
<cjwatson> Don't desperately want to make tiff uninstallable
<mvdk> Wow, hdf5 has a lot of reverse dependencies
<xnox> mvdk: it's that good =)
<dupondje> could somebody kill https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mozilla-daily/+archive/ppa/+build/3454000 ? Its stuck (running for +24h)
<dupondje> same for https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mozilla-daily/+archive/ppa/+build/3456197
<dupondje> https://launchpad.net/~damagedspline/+archive/waze-qt/+build/3455851 seems also stuck ... :)
<dupondje> hmmz
<cjwatson> -> #launchpad
<dupondje> :)
<vibhav> dupondje: ^^
<cjwatson> mdeslaur: your tiff merge can become a sync, but bug 993304 should happen first
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 993304 in jbigkit (Ubuntu) "[MIR] jbigkit" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/993304
<mdeslaur> cjwatson: thanks, I'll subscribe to it
<slangasek> cjwatson: steal away :)
<vibhav> cjwatson: Can I ask you something?
<sladen> vibhav: I would just ask
<sladen> vibhav: since although you can ask; it is hard to know what the answer might be without knowing the question
<cjwatson> vibhav: what sladen said
<vibhav> Since, I am merging, should the changelog entry be "/debian/patches/foo : Merge from Debian Unstable (LP: #bugno)" ?
<vibhav> or the description of what the patch does?
<tumbleweed> for a merge, the changelog entry is usually "Merge from ... (LP: #...), remaining changes" followed by all the changes that we are carrying over
<tumbleweed> and then any other things you had to add
<vibhav> tumbleweed: I am taking only one change from Debian though
<tumbleweed> then that's easy
<vibhav> So should I stil use the same syntax in the changelog?
<tumbleweed> vibhav: do whatever you think makes sense. You'll get more feedback when a sponsor looks at it
<tumbleweed> it's good to summarise all the ubuntu-specific changes, and everything that you are changing in this upload
<Laney> xnox: You wanted to move that ben file up a level too.
<xnox> Laney: ok. Will update the merge. Gotcha what 'attic' means =) s/attic/basement/?
<xnox> =)
<Laney> well, the other end of the house, but yes.
<Laney> No need to update, I'm doing it
<Laney> and adding your name so we know who to go to :P
<Laney> .
 * xnox =(
<xnox> ok.
<Laney> doesn't mean you have to do it all, but I like the idea of having a point man (unless ScottK wants to take on that role)
<ScottK> No.
<ScottK> (what are we talking about)
<Laney> boost
<apw> pitti, we have a bug come in which claims to be on quantal, but i think its all a lie, as the upgrade date is 25 days ago ... apport issue perhaps?  bug #992968
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 992968 in linux (Ubuntu) "Large file transfer to Sandisk Cruzer 8GB USB hangs for a long time" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/992968
<ScottK> If someone wants to spearhead getting the transition done, that'd be great.
<ScottK> I'm not going to spend a lot of time on it.
<ScottK> There's not much point in spending much time on no-change rebuilds until after DIF though.
<xnox> Laney: i don't have upload rights, so while I can keep an eye on it, I can only file bugs/sponsorship requests.
<Laney> that's fine
<vibhav> dholbach: ping
<dholbach> vibhav, pong
<xnox> Laney: ok. good. I'll keep an eye on it.
<tumbleweed> lots of sponsorship requests is a sure way to end up with upload rights :)
 * xnox is noting this down.
<apw> infinity, when one builds binary packages ... where does the description in apt-cache et al come from?  as there are essentially two control files, the one in the source package and the one in each binary run
<cjwatson> dpkg-gencontrol builds the binary control file based on the source control file.
<infinity> apw: It's an intersection of DEBIAN/control from the binary package (viewable with dpkg-deb -I foo.deb) and the overrides in the archive (see: /indices/ on a mirror)
<infinity> apw: Or see Colin's answer for how DEBIAN/control is generated in the first place. :P
<apw> cjwatson, on the buildd we rebuild the control file to get the udebs etc added, but we are saying that one isn't used in the final binaries /
<infinity> apw: dpkg-gencontrol operates on the state of debian/control at the time you call it so, yes, re-generating it during build lets you mangle the end result.
<infinity> apw: I think we've discussed before, though, that having debian/control in the source be incorrect/incomplete is probably a bug. :P
<apw> infinity, heh yeah, di makes life interesting in this regard
<infinity> (Since that influences the .dsc, and what we think we know about the source package and what binaries it produces)
<infinity> apw: No, the kernel build system makes it interesting, not d-i. ;)
<apw> infinity, let me restate that, kernel-wedge makes it interesting
<infinity> I can get on board with that finger-pointing.
<apw> infinity, but from that description I cannot right now understand why our binary packages for i386 have the wrong descriptions in them at the moment
<infinity> apw: Oh?
<cjwatson> Pretty sure you're just calling kernel-wedge in the wrong place, anyway :-P
<cjwatson> It's a control file slicing tool, it has to be pointed in the right direction ...
<apw> cjwatson, heh probabally.  i think this is something else some time with a pint and a hammer will sort it out
<cjwatson> Given where you're calling it, there's no way it can be correct right now
<cjwatson> No matter how clever it is
<apw> cjwatson, indeed
<cjwatson> But, as long as you're calling it before dpkg-gencontrol, not sure how you'd be getting wrong descriptions
<cjwatson> How wrong?
<apw> cjwatson, will confirm same shortly.  but i am getting a human_arch for the amd64 arch in i386 and omap builds ...
<apw> cjwatson, which would match whats in the source package as that can only be built on one arch
<apw> cjwatson, but in theory at least should be different on the real builders ...
<vibhav> dholbach: You might want to check https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/eggdrop/+bug/885329
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 885329 in eggdrop (Ubuntu Oneiric) "eggdrop crash on i386" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<dholbach> vibhav, can you subscribe 'ubuntu-sponsors' to the bug? this way somebody will take care of it - I'm currently in the middle of something else
<pitti> apw: hm, that bug was filed 14 hours ago, so DistroRelease: could be true
<pitti> apw: apport gets that directly from lsb_release
<pitti> good night everyone!
<apw> pitti, well the upgrade time is 15 days ago, 10 before we opened quantal
<cjwatson> the upgrade time is often lies
<apw> cjwatson, oh ok, then perhaps it is real
<cjwatson> I remember working out why once; I think it always claims it's upgraded to the current release but actually quotes the last time update-manager did some particular kind of work, or something
<vibhav> When was quantal released?
<cjwatson> vibhav: A little over five months in the future
<cjwatson> It was *created* on Thursday
<vibhav> cjwatson: Then how come is the bug you are talking about is reported in 12.10?
<cjwatson> quantal exists and is on the mirrors.  That's different from it being released
<vibhav> Im confused
<vibhav> Does a pre-release verion of quantal exist
<tumbleweed> that's what we are all working on, yes
<xnox> vibhav: http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/quantal/Release
<cjwatson> that's kind of important for us all to develop it :-)
<xnox> vibhav: note that Version stanza already is set to 12.10 (with a lot of hope we will get there)
<cjwatson> we don't wait until October and then throw it all over the wall in one go
<vibhav> I see, the repos is still there
<bdmurray> sladen: so I'll make bug 988995 a duplicate of the other one then?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 988995 in whoopsie-daisy (Ubuntu) "package whoopsie 0.1.32 failed to install/upgrade: el subproceso instalado el script post-installation devolviÃ³ el cÃ³digo de salida de error 1" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/988995
<nixternal> qotd:  [  cjwatson] we don't wait until October and then throw it all over the wall in one go
<bdmurray> slangasek: I meant you there
<vibhav> Its a bit like Debian unstable, right?
<slangasek> bdmurray: yes, I think so
<xnox> vibhav: yes. we call it ubuntu+1
<xnox> vibhav: /j #ubuntu+1
<cjwatson> right now it's very likely unusable
<vibhav> xnox: I know that :)
<cjwatson> it'll take a couple of weeks for it to settle down after the initial sync from Debian
<Laney> xnox: http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/transitions/boost1.49.html
 * xnox is off to do some work =)))
<semkox> hello
<semkox> how can i see all my apps in ubuntu 12,04?
<xnox> barry: http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/transitions/dh-python2.html
<xnox> barry: similar to ^ can we have a transition tracker for python3-only on the cd
<tumbleweed> I don't know how useful that transition tracker is...
<xnox> cause the test is .depends python3*
<xnox> but we need to cook up the 'affected' packages.
<xnox> or do we need to test 'ubuntu-transition-tracker' what a package set is.
<xnox> barry: you said you already had a script to generate all required dependencies which need transition?
<xnox> tumbleweed: that was just an example.
<tumbleweed> you could have a tracker for packages building python3 modules, but I don't know how useful it would be either
<xnox> tumbleweed: limited to those that are required/installed on the live-cd.
<xnox> well, let's wait for barry to tell us how https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AiT4gOXSkmapdFA1anRkWERsaXgtWnllUG9QWXhDVWc#gid=0 is generated currently.
<tumbleweed> Laney: is that doable? I'm guessing it means a (regex|of|package|names} ?
<Laney> you can enumerate, sure
<tumbleweed> xnox: the dh_python2 transitions (for CD images) was handled by an enormous bug that people edited the description of
 * xnox =((((
<tumbleweed> yeah :)
<xnox> surely we should be able to limit candidates by: seed or package task
<tumbleweed> Task should be doable, but it doesn't match with seeding-on-CDs that tightly
<xnox> tumbleweed: don't we already have the bzr-branch into which the expansion of seeds gets commited (as in package names)
<xnox> could be a suitable hack as to which candidates to consider (sure it will be out of sync but it will be better than 'task' and closer to 'seeding-on-CDs')
<cjwatson> seed expansions don't get committed to bzr
<cjwatson> I guess I feel transitions are more useful for things where we can realistically transition the entire archive in a single cycle - i.e. make it all go green
<infinity> Speaking of.
<infinity> libjpg, anyway?
<infinity> s/anyway/anyone/
 * infinity kicks his fingers.
<infinity> Err, png?
 * infinity also kicks his brain.
<infinity> I need more coffee this morning.
<xnox> cjwatson: ok. but python3 on cds is a more/less realistic transition this cycle (?!)
<cjwatson> hopefully, but certainly not for the whole archive
<xnox> cjohnston: hence the tracker should limit '.is_affected' to those that are on the cd's.
<barry> xnox: initial list is generated by oncd.py from lp:~barry/+junk/pydeps
<xnox> looks like we have an expansion at: http://qa.ubuntuwire.org/ubuntu-seeded-pack%E2%80%90ages/seeded.json.gz
<xnox> barry: ok thanks.
<xnox> what are your thoughts to have an archive tracker for python3 transition?
<cjwatson> xnox: well, if *you* fancy hacking the ocaml ;-)
<barry> xnox: it would be great
<slangasek> bdmurray: bug #993147> hadn't we suppressed this before?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 993147 in grub (Ubuntu) "package linux-image-3.2.0-24-generic 3.2.0-24.38 failed to install/upgrade: subprocess installed post-installation script returned error exit status 2" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/993147
<bdmurray> slangasek: I don't think so
<bryceh> hmm, when I go to http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases/12.04/release/ and then click on 64-bit Mac (AMD64) desktop CD (the first link on the page), it takes me to an error page
<bryceh> "Access Denied"
<ScottK> bryceh: Where is the current tutorial for "X got wedged on my Intel system, but I can SSH in and want to get enough information for a useful bug report."?
<jussi> bryceh: that works for me...
<bryceh> ScottK, do you mean https://wiki.ubuntu.com/X/Troubleshooting/Freeze ?
<ScottK> bryceh: That looks like it.  Thanks.
<valavanisalex> Hi All, quick packaging query: window fonts in grace have been broken since the xorg metapackage dropped its dependency on xfonts-100dpi and xfonts-75dpi (bug #705202).  Is it reasonable to add them as recommendations in grace?  The Debian maintainer wasn't particularly keen.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 705202 in grace (Ubuntu) "xmgrace window font is not loaded correctly" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/705202
<valavanisalex> Repost from 20:01: Hi All, quick packaging query: window fonts in grace have been broken since the xorg metapackage dropped its dependency on xfonts-100dpi and xfonts-75dpi (bug #705202).  Is it reasonable to add them as recommendations in grace?  The Debian maintainer wasn't particularly keen.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 705202 in grace (Ubuntu) "xmgrace window font is not loaded correctly" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/705202
<slangasek> valavanisalex: Recommends don't handle the fact that X is a client-server architecture; clearly any package that cares about xfonts-100dpi or xfonts-75dpi is using server-side fonts, and should really be updated to use client-side fonts
<slangasek> (which is how all modern apps work)
<slangasek> it may be better than nothing, though
<slangasek> barry, cjwatson: I'd appreciate a native english review of https://code.launchpad.net/~vorlon/ubuntu/precise/resolvconf/lp.989585/+merge/103958 - I want to get that SRUed ASAP but should not be my own editor :)
<barry>  slangasek: this one reads a little awkward to me:
<barry> +"The immutable flag on /etc/resolv.conf will be removed now, and the current "
<barry> 81	+"file will be moved to /etc/resolvconf/resolv.conf.d/original.  If these "
<barry> 82	+"contents include static resolver configuration, it is recommended that you "
<barry> 83	+"copy these to /etc/resolvconf/resolv.conf.d/head."
<barry> specifically "If these contents..."
<slangasek> barry: thanks :) suggestions for improvement?  "If the contents of this file"?
<barry> slangasek: too many "these"ses :)
<slangasek> or "If the original file contained [...]"
<barry> slangasek: how about: "If the contents of this file includes static resolver configuration values, it is recommended you copy the values to [...]."
<barry> slangasek: actually "recommended that you"
<slangasek> barry: is that better than http://paste.ubuntu.com/963052/ ?
<slangasek> possibly with a s/this/it/
<barry> slangasek: well the problem is that i don't know what "this" reverse to, i.e. the file or the contents
<valavanisalex> slangasek: Thanks, I'll see if I can figure out how to improve the font handling in grace.  Not really something I know about though!
<barry> uh, "this" refers to
<barry> slangasek: so s/copy this/copy the file/ perhaps ?  (or is it copy the contents? :)
<slangasek> Dear power company!  That's not how power works
<slangasek> barry: sorry, I missed anything you might have said after <slangasek> possibly with a s/this/it/
<barry> slangasek: the problem is that i don't know what "this" refers to, i.e. the file or the contents.  so maybe s/copy this/copy the file/ perhaps?  (or is it /copy the contents/ ?)
<slangasek> well... either works in practice - but I take your point
<slangasek> copy the file wfm
<barry> cool, other than that it looks good
<slangasek> ok - thanks for the eyeballs
<hallyn> hm, gnulib fails to build on q?  https://launchpadlibrarian.net/103905666/buildlog_ubuntu-quantal-i386.libvirt_0.9.8-2ubuntu18_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<slangasek> hallyn: yes, a bad test that's not safe under -Werror=format-security
<hallyn> admittedly it's very old, i need to merge with the debian version
<hallyn> drat
<slangasek> hallyn: you can pluck a patch for this out of coreutils
<slangasek> (it's not upstreamed to gnulib yet)
<slangasek> oh, actually, that's a different failure
<slangasek> so... *after* upgrading to current gnulib, you can grab the patch from coreutils ;)
<hallyn> heh
<hallyn> ok i guess i need to first do the merge and see how close to current gnulib that gets me
<hallyn> thanks
<dupondje> nice merge slangasek ! :)
<slangasek> horrid, horrid merge
<slangasek> nasty filthy merge
<dupondje> Its over now :)
<tumbleweed> until next time...
<ajmitch> it'd been awhile since that was merged?
<dupondje> its really tempting to upgrade to quantal :P
<slangasek> ajmitch: yeah... was meant to happen for precise but slipped off the radar
<mdeslaur> slangasek: my apologies for not having done that one in a while...I still have some numbness in my extremities from doing the last one
<slangasek> mdeslaur: :)
<barry> anybody know much about htlatex and friends?  i'm getting local build failures with pyopenssl which uses htlatex to build its docs.  the failures are mysterious ;)
<slangasek> barry: that's part of the texlive mess infinity was working on?
<barry> slangasek: i wasn't aware of that.  very well could be as even the precise version is no longer buildable on quantal (i.e. what quantal has now).
<slangasek> right
<barry> slangasek: i was trying to merge the latest from debian plus add the py3 packaging stuff
<slangasek> couldn't tell you though if it's actually a bug in the tex side though, or if it's pyopenssl needing updating
<barry> slangasek: do you know if infinity's work is resolved or still in progress?
<slangasek> I do not
<barry> slangasek: so i have three options: 1) wait until that's resolved, pinging infinity into infinity until it is <wink>; 2) temporarily disable the -doc package build and upload what i've got for now; 3) revert the debian quilt patch that switches from using latex2html (which still appears to work) to htlatex.  the problem with #3 is that latex2html isn't in main
<slangasek> barry: hmm, and htlatex is?  I don't see any package by that name
<slangasek> tex4ht?
<barry> slangasek: yep
<slangasek> barry: pyopenssl is also the only package in main that wants tex4ht... so you could probably swap 'em without too much trouble if you wanted
<slangasek> latex2html has no other deps, as a MIR
<barry> slangasek: not sure why sandro made that change for debian, but if it's not unreasonable for us to revert it, i think it would be idea.  more delta from debian, less from upstream
<slangasek> yeah, I think that's not unreasonable
<barry> slangasek: i'll double check but i'm pretty sure the build works fine with the upstream original
<barry> slangasek: cool, thanks
<kees> has anyone looked at klibc's "kinit" going into the initramfs?
<DebolazST> When I try to install indicator-messages from source on my system, the menu I get when I click on the icon becomes empty. Do I need to do anything special other than --prefix=/usr to install it properly on my system?
<slangasek> kees: I don't think so - what's that useful for?
<kees> slangasek: I'm staring at http://git.kernel.org/?p=libs/klibc/klibc.git;a=blob;f=usr/kinit/capabilities.c;h=eab4d937af1f6e5c22af277537be980bcdc1f9b6;hb=ff0a614bd724f6c4c6a5014a9955dc1bc028f336 and not wanting to reimplement it for initramfs-tools
<broder> slangasek: would you take a patch to pam_motd to update the /var/run/motd file even if PAM_SILENT is set?
<slangasek> kees: so the initramfs would exec kinit, which would chain to the initramfs init?  or the other way around?
<slangasek> broder: that's to make sure it gets refreshed for the next time, even if it's not displayed now?
<broder> slangasek: yep. it'd put it in line with what, e.g., pam_lastlog does
<slangasek> broder: yeah, that sounds sane
<broder> slangasek: cool. i'll put something together then
<kees> slangasek: I'm not really sure how kinit would get swapped into the initramfs. that's why I was asking. :)
<infinity> kees: Getting it in is easy, the question is how it would be used...
<kees> infinity: yeah. I don't really understand what it's supposed to do
<infinity> That makes two of us.
<infinity> [klibc] kinit: replacement for in-kernel do_mount, ipconfig, nfsroot
<slangasek> I'm assuming it's for chainloading
<slangasek> ah
<slangasek> or not :)
<infinity> That seems to explain it fairly well in a single line.
<infinity> Seems like the intent was to tear the root mounting code out of the kernel completely, but that never happened.
<infinity> And, hey, it's only been 6+ years.
<TheMuso> Oh wow, armel is being rolled back to armv5t? Interesting.
<TheMuso> for quantal...
<TheMuso> ...unless I misread.
<infinity> TheMuso: It's all in your head, you saw nothing.
<slangasek> TheMuso: it's entirely speculative at this point; it's just as likely that we'll drop armel entirely, but *if* it's going to be kept, it's only interesting if it supports different hardware than armhf
<TheMuso> Right, I was wondering about that too, makes sense.
<TheMuso> infinity: I never see anything anyway. :p
#ubuntu-devel 2012-05-03
<ScottK> infinity: Should probably drop the GLES stuff that's different from Debian too.  More stuff would build.
<infinity> ScottK: We're not dropping it for armhf, so we may as well make it work for both.
<infinity> ScottK: I'm not sure "having stuff build but be really slow because it uses software rendering" is a net win for anyone except people who like FTBFS counts low.
<ScottK> Most of the stuff that doesn't build now can't realistically be made to do so.
<ScottK> (with GLES)
<infinity> Where there's a will, there's a way.  Maybe you can talk Linaro into it. ;)
<infinity> (Still, I think my "it builds, but it's useless" point stands)
<ScottK> Could be.
 * DebolazW makes another brave attempt at getting indicator-messages to install.
<pitti> Good morning
<ajmitch> morning pitti
<pitti> apw: oh, _this_; yes, this looks wrong, I'll have a look whehre it takes the data from
<pitti> hey ajmitch, how are you?
<ajmitch> I'm good, how are you? :)
<pitti> quite fine, thanks!
<DebolazW> Moin.
 * ajmitch is looking forward to UDS again, except for the flights :)
 * DebolazW made his indicator-messages work like he wanted to. :)
<mwhudson> pff, it's only about 12 hours to the left coast
<ajmitch> mwhudson: still long enough to be a bit annoying
<pitti> apw: indeed, it takes the mtime of /var/log/dist-upgrade/main.log
<pitti> apw: so if you use apt-get instead of update-manager, that won't be seen
<DebolazW> Hmm, I want to publish an alternate version of an ubuntu package through a ppa. Should the version number of the package be bumped, or kept as is?
<pitti> DebolazW: bump it, so that people can actually tell which version they have
<micahg> DebolazW: usually done with +foo (to give some hint of what you're adding), also, this will be superseded by almost any upload which reminds you to rebase against the new version
<DebolazW> So if the version is 0.6.0, I should make it 0.6.0+myfeature ?
<micahg> yep, then if you need to rebuild or modify yours, you can do 0.60+myfeature1 and such
<micahg> DebolazW: oops, not quite right
<micahg> that would be if it's 0.6.0 in ubuntu itself as opposed to 0.6.0-0ubuntu1 or similar
<DebolazW> The whole package is: indicator-messages_0.6.0-0ubuntu1
<micahg> yeah, so you want 0.6.0-0ubuntu1+myfeature (#ubuntu-packaging is good for questions like this in the future)
<DebolazW> Noted.
 * DebolazW is finally getting around to fixing the one thing he finds incredibly annoying about Unity, the lack of good notifications of messages.
<micahg> DebolazW: I assume you've tried upstreaming the feature?
<micahg> that's a decent candidate for a backport if you get it into quantal
<DebolazW> That's going to be step 2. Step 1 is making something useful I can take advantage of on my own systems (And anyone who might need it)
<micahg> sounds good and good luck!
<DebolazW> The current message indicator behavior seems like a deliberate design choice though, so I don't think my changes will be accepted just like that.
<DebolazW> So this is mostly to cater for my own needs, with the added benefit of helping anyone who might want the change (Including upstream)
<micahg> well, it might be worth having a conversation first, that might possibly allow creating something fitting the design decisions and your needs as well
<dholbach> good morning
<apw> pitti, ahh so they likely upgraded to precise using update manager, then changed sources and dist-upgrade'd and now we have mixed messages... makes sense
<pitti> apw: indeed
<apw> pitti, thanks for looking into it, at least we know how
<xnox> Good Morning! =)
<diwic> pitti, don't know if you have a terrible amount of critical bugs on your hands right now, if not, feel free to fix bug 993810
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 993810 in apport (Ubuntu) "apport-collect broken (with source pkg name != binary pkg name?)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/993810
<pitti> diwic: marked as dupe of bug 359810, thanks!
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 359810 in apport (Ubuntu) "apport-collect won't submit updates to a bug assigned to a source package when only a binary package of another name from that source is installed" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/359810
<diwic> pitti, hmm, that sounds terribly old. This must have been fixed and then regressed?
<pitti> no, it never worked
<pitti> apport-collect (or apport in general) has never really been designed to work with source packages
<pitti> users see binary packages mostly, and we cannot actually collect a lot of info about source packages
 * diwic boots into oneiric to check
<diwic> pitti, in oneiric, I get the message "No packages found matching alsa-driver.", but no stack trace, and relevant information is correctly attached.
<diwic> pitti, from what I can tell, it's an oneiric -> precise regression.
<pitti> ah, I see; so in oneiric it would not really collect any alsa-driver info either, as that package does not exist; but indeed it should not segfault
 * pitti undupes then
<pitti> diwic: I'll look at it, thanks!
<diwic> pitti, it does collect the relevant info and attaches it to the bug report correctly.
<pitti> I guess it can collect the parts from /usr/share/apport/package-hooks/source_alsa-driver.py
<pitti> which are presumably the most interesting for you
<pitti> it should not be able to determine the package version, modified files, etc.
<diwic> pitti, hmm, you might be correct in that, e g, it seems like "Dependencies" are not collected
<pitti> so that part is #359810
<tjaalton> uh, nice when an early dependency fails to install and then apport files dozens of bugs against the xorg packages :P
 * smb is a bit unhappy with his printing results...
<doko_> infinity, how did your eglibc build did end up?
<doko> pitti, does pygobject assume that _ctypes is built as an extension?
<pitti> doko: no, not as such -- it does not link to it or anything
<pitti> git grep ctypes -> empty
<pitti> it uses libffi
<pitti> well, libgirepository uses libffi, pygobject uses libgirepository
<pitti> I'm still looking for a variation of the Setup.local file to make it work
<pitti> but haven't found one so far
<pitti> this bug drives me mad, I spent half a week on this thingy; at least I'm happy that I finally found the one line which triggers it, but it's still unclear why it segfaults
<pitti> it tries to call the generated C wrapper for the python callback and SIGILLs
<pitti> what that has to do with the ctypes module is beyond me; the only connection that I see is that both gi and ctypes use libffi
<pitti> so perhaps something goes wrong with the linking
<doko> pitti, I see that the python binary is statically linked against libffi
<doko> so you end up with two copies of libffi
<pitti> right, and ssl, etc.
<pitti> my local build doesn't link against libffi
<doko> no, ssl is not statically linked
<pitti> ldd /usr/bin/python3.2 -> libssl and libffi
<pitti> perhaps we have a different idea about "static"
<pitti> i. e. it's linked dynamically, but the ctypes module is built into the python binary in our packages apparently
<pitti> and it works as soon as I change "extension" to "builtin" to make it a separate ctypes.so extension
<pitti> (that sounds backwards, isn't it?)
<doko> #_ctypes _ctypes/_ctypes.c _ctypes/callbacks.c _ctypes/callproc.c _ctypes/stgdict.c _ctypes/cfield.c _ctypes/malloc_closure.c -Wl,-Bstatic -lffi -Wl,-Bdynamic
<pitti> want me to try that?
<doko> no, that's from debian/patches/setup-modules.diff
<pitti> oh, that's not in Setup.local then
<pitti> doko: I don't apply patches in my upstream build
<pitti> anyway, playing with that in my "minimal diff from upstream" tree
<pitti> fg
<pitti> doko: so, just -lffi or wrapping that in -Bstatic doesn't make a difference
<pitti> it works (ldd python proves it), but crashes either way
<pitti> doko: is it generally bad to have a library both statically linked as well as dynamically opened in the same process, or is that specific to libffi?
<doko> pitti, it's bad. I'll look at it, but for now, I can't see the static linkage from the build log
<pitti> doko: ah, /usr/bin/python2.7 does not link to libffi, seems python 2.7 ships ctypes as a module
<pitti> /usr/lib/python2.7/lib-dynload/_ctypes.so
<doko> right
<doko> pitti, I think we can build it as an extension again. however it would be nice to know if the issue comes up again if you load both the _ctypes and gobject extensions
<dupondje> cjwatson: MoM on its summer vacation?
<cjwatson> dupondje: hardware problems, as I said on -devel
<cjwatson> it's being looked at but it's UDS season which keeps sysadmins busys
<cjwatson> *busy
<pitti> re
<pitti> doko: I'm testing that now
<dupondje> ah ok :)
<dupondje> no problem! :)
<dupondje> If you need an additional sysadmin ... ;)
<cjwatson> I guess the employment page is --> that way
<pitti> doko: I can import both gi.repository and ctypes, and both work
 * pitti sends that to the bug repor
<dupondje> Office based - London UK ... to far :)
<doko> pitti: uploaded to -proposed
<pitti> doko: oh, wow, thanks!
<pitti> doko: I noticed that this drops some symbols, at least with my quick and native approach; could that cause some abi breakage somewhere?
<doko> pitti: no, I don't think so. that should only be symbols from libffi
<mdeslaur> so...what's everyone using instead of MoM for now?
<mdeslaur> also, unstable or testing?
<pitti> mdeslaur: http://people.ubuntuwire.com/~lucas/merges.html
<pitti> the only thing I really need is a list of packages I need to merge
<mdeslaur> pitti: ah! cool, thanks
<Laney> we only just fixed that to show quantal. may take a couple of hours to reflect current reality.
<lucas> I'm surprised this still works, but cool
<pitti> yes, apparently it does
<pitti> doko: https://launchpadlibrarian.net/104064419/buildlog_ubuntu-precise-amd64.python3.2_3.2.3-0ubuntu2_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz > that was my question about the abi break -- libpython would not have the PyC* stuff any more with an external module
<amourphious> Can you please tell me from where can i get code for keyboard layout settings in Ubuntu
<pitti> doko: but there are not too many rdepends of libpython3.2, I'm happy to test them
<dobey> amourphious: xkeyboard-config
<amourphious> dobey: can you tell me the repo to be cloned
<dobey> amourphious: if you want upstream it's probably on freedesktop.org somewhere
<cjwatson> amourphious: git://git.freedesktop.org/git/xkeyboard-config
<amourphious> cjwatson: thanx
<amourphious> dobey: thx
<amourphious> cjwatson: well the repo i just got consist of geometry symbol and other things while i need code for generating layouts as it is done in system settings
<cjwatson> amourphious: -> dobey, all I was doing was giving you the git URL, I don't know the layout of desktop code here
<amourphious> dobey:  i need code for generating layouts as it is done in system settings any idea from where can i get it
<dobey> read the code for whatever does that
<dobey> i don't know where it is exactly
<amourphious> dobey:not even about system settings code
<dobey> the upstream for the control center is gnome-control-center
<dobey> perhaps you should be asking these questions in #gnome on gimpnet irc instead
<xnox> how do I tell `dpkg-source' to consider that I'm on 'debian' and not on ubuntu?
<tumbleweed> xnox: DEB_VENDOR=Debian
<xnox> tumbleweed: thanks.
<doko> pitti, ahh, ok. I'll mark these as optional
<pitti> doko: if you do a new upload, can you please build the source with -v3.2.3-0ubuntu1 to include the previous changelog?
<doko> sure
<angeloc> hi guys, can anyone help me with bug 993867?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 993867 in xoscope (Ubuntu) "Xoscope package lacks pulseaudio-esound-compat as dependency" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/993867
<angeloc> I already filed a merge proposal and looking for sponsorship
<xnox> ev: ^
<xnox> angeloc: ev is patch piloting right now ;-)
<ev> whoops!
 * xnox your welcome!
<Laney> angeloc: You've done everything you need to (at least for now). As it is on http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/sponsoring/ somebody will get to it soon :-)
<ev> I'm not supposed to be :)
<ev> @pilot out
* udevbot changed the topic of #ubuntu-devel to: Archive open | Ubuntu 12.04 (Precise Pangolin) is released! | Dev' of Ubuntu (not support or app devel) | build failures -> http://bit.ly/HaWdtw | #ubuntu for support and general discussion for hardy -> precise | #ubuntu-app-devel for app development on Ubuntu http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment | See #ubuntu-bugs for http://bit.ly/lv8soi | Patch Pilots:
<ev> I'd love to help, but I'm massively swamped today
<xnox> ev: how long have you been "piloting" =)
<ev> xnox: about a week, apparently :)
<xnox> way to go at boosting your stats ;-)
<angeloc> ev: wow, is that list is filed in realtime when a user submits a branch? Cool!
<xnox> angeloc: +/- real time =)
<angeloc> ev: realtime, I filed the bug this morning!
<xnox> ubottu: please ping pilots every hour when they are "piloting"
<ubottu> xnox: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
 * xnox =(
<DebolazW> Hmm, I have implemented blinking behavior in indicator-messages, but if I wanted to make this mechanism configurable, what would be the appropriate way of letting the user set the configuration? gconf?
<angeloc> ev:it's very interesting to know that your contribution is in queue and you will have a slot in the feature!
<angeloc> ev: for some projects i had to ping massively some developers ...
<dholbach> Ubuntu Development session (at Ubuntu Open Week) starting in 2 minutes in #ubuntu-classroom
<stgraber> xnox: sponsored your nagios-nrpe merge (with one minor additional change), I'll take care of sruing the fix to all releases
<xnox> DebolazW: see topic. I think #ubuntu-app-devel people might help you more.
<xnox> stgraber: =) thanks ;-)
<DebolazW> Well, I already saw the topic and felt that it wasn't an obvious app question and hence something that could be asked here, but thanks.
<xnox> stgraber: thanks. I didn't check diff against --old debian branch. As long as it is useless diff ;-) anyway our delta should go to debian anyway & get the package in sync.
 * xnox notes down to check all possible debdiffs.
<stgraber> xnox: yeah, that xxx file was introduced by a merge done by doko a while ago (or so bzr blame told me ;)). With the hardening changes in Debian I'm not sure how much of that delta is still relevant, and any still relevant part indeed should make it to Debian so we can just sync it.
<xnox> stgraber: we need to fix all stable releases anyway ;-)
<stgraber> xnox: yeah, doing that now, should just take a few minutes to get the SRUs pushed, the diff is simple to re-apply
<xnox> stgraber: I can help testing
 * xnox still should have access to a few nagios/nrpe monitoring sites on various releases
<stgraber> xnox: cool, that'll be useful. I think at this time I only have hardy, lucid and precise on my network that I can help testing with
<xnox> although not sure we need to do any testing apart from service restart ;-)
<stgraber> installing the package should be enough as it'll restart the service
<xnox> http://people.ubuntuwire.com/~lucas/merges.html updated itself with more recent data now
<ogra_> infinity, do you remember what model your ac100 was ?
 * ogra_ sees weird hangs on one device here but has no issues on the other ... 
<stgraber> cjohnston: I noticed Edubuntu was a bit of a mess on the summit site because we had duplicate blueprints. I now untargeted them for UDS and marked them superseded by the one we really want a session for. Is that enough or does it require manual removing too?
<cjwatson> jamespage: hm, I fakesynced your jenkins-commons-jelly upload from Debian as it came up in the auto-sync run, but it failed with a Maven artifact resolution error: https://launchpadlibrarian.net/104075490/buildlog_ubuntu-quantal-i386.jenkins-commons-jelly_1.1-jenkins-20110627-2fakesync1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<cjwatson> I know you love those
<jamespage> cjwatson, yeah - I saw - I need to fixup tomcat6 to make that work again - doing so at the moment - however the bzr branch is out of date for ubuntu....
<cjohnston> stgraber: manual... can you send me the links to the ones that need to be deleted please
<stgraber> cjohnston: sure, I actually spotted some more, I'll pm you the list
<cjohnston> ty
<cjwatson> jamespage: fun
<doko> pitti, python3.2 reuploaded, sorry for the delay
<pitti> doko: thanks; still waiting for the diff, will accept then
<doko> pitti: and please accept gnat-4.6 for -proposed as well (bug 994045)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 994045 in gnat-4.6 (Ubuntu Precise) "manual gnat-4.6 build for armhf needed" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/994045
<pitti> *nod
<infinity> doko: Ended up the same as the buildd build, which isn't shocking.  But I'm vaguely stumped as to why.
<infinity> ogra_: My ac100 is a 10Z
<ogra_> infinity, mind to try the binary driver from my p.c.c dir ?
<infinity> ogra_: In a bit, sure.  Still waiting for the caffeine to kick in this morning. ;)
<ogra_> heh, yeah, no hurry
<ogra_> we're not sure if its a HW difference, an install difference or if the kernel is just outdated
<ogra_> theoreticaly the driver should work
<infinity> Theoretically?  I don't like where this is going. :P
<ogra_> i have one system built on top of an ubuntu-core tarball ... running lubuntu ... thats the super crashy one
<ogra_> another model with ubuntu-desktop installed from beta and upgraded to final runs relatively fine (also crashes but only after hours, not minutes)
<ogra_> HW (CPU/GPU) wise there seems to be no difference on first sight
<infinity> ogra_: Well, let me upgrade mine to final and then have a try.
<ogra_> is yours a std install or as well manually built from scratch ?
<ogra_> (i remember you did something like that in the past)
<infinity> It's a normal install by now.  The from-scratch one is long gone.
<ogra_> k
<infinity> 566 packages to upgrade, though.  Might just be faster to re-image.
<ogra_> heh
<prodigy> hello can anyone help me with the brightness control
<prodigy> on ubuntu 12.04
<slangasek> cjohnston: hi, ev noticed that https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/foundations-q-metrics is accepted for uds-q but not showing up on the schedule - can you help me figure out what's going on there?
<infinity> ogra_: Yeah, I think I'll just re-image the machine and get back to you. :P
<ogra_> k, no hurry
<ogra_> just testing (or trying to) a 3.1 kernel
<ogra_> sqadly that seems to be built with CONFIG_COMMIT_SUICIDE enabled :/
<ogra_> *sadly
<cjohnston> slangasek: ahh.. one of the problems with the blueprint method... The definition is wrong.. It needs to be new, discussion or drafting I believe.
<slangasek> cjohnston: right, sigh - fixing
<ev> cjohnston, slangasek: cheers
<stgraber> tjaalton: hey there, can you look at intel-vaapi-driver in Debian? My multi-arch change has been done in Debian now and they've moved to the new upstream so I think it's safe to sync but would prefer have you confirm that your patch is now fully covered by the new upstream in Debian
<infinity> doko: Was it a soft versus softfp oops?
<tjaalton> stgraber: sure
<doko> infinity, the eglibc thing? both builds should be configured for soft
<infinity> doko: Was just wondering, due to your multilib mangling in gcc-4.6
<jamespage> doko, is openjdk-7 on arm for quantal now functional?
<jamespage> looking at https://launchpadlibrarian.net/103810944/buildlog_ubuntu-quantal-armel.antlr_2.7.7%2Bdfsg-4_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<infinity> jamespage: It should be once the one from precise-proposed is copied forward (which hasn't happened yet).
<jamespage> infinity, right-oh - good
<infinity> jamespage: (doing so now)
<jamespage> infinity, ta
<tjaalton> stgraber: yeah, it's syncable. checking not helped by the debian maintainers not using upstream git history :)
<stgraber> tjaalton: ok, syncing then
<tjaalton> hum, I mean using git-import-orig instead of the upstream repo. thanks
<cjohnston> slangasek: another foundations BP thats setup wrong: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-q/meeting/20604/packageselection-foundations-n-event-based-initramfs/
<infinity> ogra_: Holy crap, after reinstalling, sound came out of my speakers!
<infinity> ogra_: (Yes, this is a first)
<ogra_> haha
<ogra_> yeah, i added a ucm profile
<doko> ogra_, ac100?
<ogra_> yep
<ogra_> just fiddling with 3.1 and the new armhf bonary driver here
<ogra_> *binary
<ogra_> compiz runs fine with it ... but sadly all unity UI elements are competely transparent
<ogra_> (read panel, dash and launcher)
<infinity> ogra_: "bonary" sounds about right.
<cjohnston> /31/26
<ogra_> haha
<slangasek> cjohnston: that blueprint has been renamed, how do we delete it out?
<cjohnston> slangasek: when they get renamed/deleted you have to get an admin to delete if from summit
<slangasek> cjohnston: dear admin, please delete :-)
<cjohnston> :-(
<infinity> ogra_: So, what sort of success/fail am I looking for here? :P
<cjohnston> slangasek: the problem is that we have created instructions, and like the one above, or 13 others that I find in the first 50 have been setup wrong, either being named wrong, or having a setting wrong or something... so someone has to fix each one of these that are setup wrong, or people have to deal with the fact that they are wrong (and at times, as earlier today they just dont show up)
<infinity> ogra_: The driver "works", brings up lightdm (missing some elements, some flickering in and out), logging in seems to be less successful.
<ogra_> infinity, use it for a while and see if it hangs hard at some point
<ogra_> loggin in to the 3D session will fail without the compiz from proposed
<infinity> ogra_: Using it might be difficult, after logging in, I seem to have a mouse pointer and a wallpaper, and not much else.
<infinity> ogra_: Oh, now you tell me.
<ogra_> and even then you end up with transparent unity
<ogra_> so just go with 2d
<ogra_> what i want to know is if it hangs hard on your system too or not
 * ogra_ reboots into another kernel test
<xnox> Laney: I made a typo in the boost tracker. can you please merge lp:~dmitrij.ledkov/ubuntu-transition-tracker/dima.
 * xnox s/libbost/libboost/
<Laney> doh
<xnox> =)
<slangasek> cjohnston: to be frank, the constraint that the blueprint has to be in the correct definition state is makework - if we've targeted a blueprint to a sprint but forgotten to reset the definition state (which is easy to do or a blueprint that's being carried over/resurrected from a previous cycle), it should still be scheduled/schedulable
<slangasek> cjohnston: if we didn't want it on the schedule, we wouldn't target it to the sprint
<Laney> done
<xnox> thanks ;-)
<cjohnston> the definition state works by default, its when its changed that it breaks... how do you suggest though that we figure out what track a blueprint is for?
<slangasek> that, I can't say :/
<slangasek> as for "by default", that definitely doesn't apply in the case of carried-over blueprints
<xnox> Laney: why is it +junk branch? and not part of the project? And which branch should I target 'filter by seedss' support?
<slangasek> cjohnston: are there misnamed blueprints that I could help review and fix for you?
<cjohnston> and thats one of the flaws of the current way.. the 13 that I mentioned above were named wrong... so thats 13 metings that dont have tracks
 * slangasek nods
<Laney> xnox: the version deployed is an old one
<Laney> hopefully we will upgrade to lp:ubuntu-transition-tracker soon, so target that
<xnox> Laney: ok.
<Laney> you could also usefully merge it with the vcs-import of the upstream branch if you want
<xnox> will use that locally
<cjohnston> slangasek: tbh, it would be LESS work at this point to manually change the tracks in summit.. but that requires someone with time to do that and to know what they should be
<cjwatson> Laney: can we sit together at UDS and sort that out?  I keep forgetting to arrange that deployment
<Laney> cjwatson: sounds like a reasonable thing to do, yes.
<cjohnston> slangasek: I don't know how the LP API works, but if the ability existed to create a meeting in Summit and then press a button to create a blueprint in LP would that work?
<slangasek> cjohnston: well, the one thing I see right off the bat when looking at https://blueprints.launchpad.net/sprints/uds-q are 'topic' blueprints, which almost certainly aren't meant to be sessions
<cjwatson> and I think each time I've tried I run into some problem that would probably be trivial to sort out if you were there
<cjohnston> slangasek: correct.. but people are setting them to uds-q and approving them
<cjohnston> they need to be accepted for the cycle, but not approved for the sprint
<cjohnston> :-(
<Laney> xnox: what are you proposing to do for this seed support stuff?
<slangasek> cjohnston: our workflow in foundations is entirely driven through the LP side... we would still need a way to nominate an existing blueprint for a sprint, and I'd rather not have two ways to do it (one in LP and one in Summit) as that's likely to cause more confusion rather than less...
<cjwatson> cjohnston: I don't believe there is any LP API method to register specifications right now
<cjwatson> cjohnston: you (or somebody) would have to extend LP for that
<xnox> Laney: 1) get dump of seeds/package mappings in json from ubuntuwire/launchpad. 2) add second set of checkboxes with sets & ticks will filter same way as good/bad/unknown. 3) profit
<cjwatson> cjohnston: there's the Launchpad development clinic at UDS ... :-)
<cjohnston> slangasek: remove the blueprint import from Launchpad to Summit... Create a meeting in Summit and mark whatever blueprint(s) you want it to be associated with the meeting.. remove the "nominate for a sprint" process
<cjohnston> cjwatson: if there is a clinic on creating more hours in the day then there may be a chance.. lol
<cjohnston> ;-)
<cjohnston> thats well beyond my time abilities
<Laney> xnox: you might want to talk to mehdi @ Debian about how if something like this could usefully be done upstream
<Laney> s/how //
<cjohnston> but at the same time, I don't want to keep fixing 20+ blueprints every UDS because of errors
<xnox> Laney: but packagesets are specific to ubuntu =/   well debian has tasks/tags
<slangasek> vanhoof: hi, do you actually mean for this blueprint to have a session at UDS?  This looks like a topic tracking BP to me so probably wouldn't have a session, but I'm not sure: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/topic-quantal-kernel-hwe-essential
<Laney> yes, but it's just parsing a json file and filtering based on that isn't it?
<slangasek> vanhoof: basically it doesn't show up as part of a track at all right now, but is on the schedule; if you want a session it should be renamed to 'hardware-q-*', if you don't want a session we should remove it from uds-q
<xnox> Laney: well I was thinking to inject id's seed-ubuntu seed-ubuntu-live etc in the rows. same as it is currently done. Such that the html page is stand-alonish as it is now.
<cjohnston> which then means I have to delete it from Summit.. either way :-(
<slangasek> cjohnston: do you understand my position that the 'definition' constraint is wrong and should be dropped?  Would you like a bug report?
<xnox> Laney: i'll experiment & think about it more. before proposing something.
<Laney> xnox: OK, I just think there's something more general that could be done here.
<Laney> I feel slightly uneasy about this too; historically we haven't had divisions like this when dealing with transitions. All packages are equal.
<Laney> Perhaps I need to think about this more though.
<cjohnston> slangasek: I get that, and I'm not against it as long as we can do it.. a bug and someone to do the code would be the prefered way ;-)  but there are still plenty of other issues to fix that is only addressed by removing the LP requirement
<slangasek> sure, I understand
<akgraner> doko ping - would you have about 5 mins for me to discuss possible interview about the toolchain?
<ogra_> hmpf, so my 3.1 ac100 kernel hardlocks on boot ... but if i boot with break=bottom and then simply ctrl-d out of the initrd shell to move on with booting, all is fine and the system starts
 * ogra_ wonders where the race lives
<stgraber> cjohnston: can you remove https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/topic-quantal-release-management from the summit site too?
<stgraber> cjohnston: I see someone already un-marked it for uds-q on the blueprint (possibly skaet)
<slangasek> me
<cjohnston> done
<ogra_> hmm, must be plymouth or udev since it seems to break in init-bottom
<stgraber> slangasek: I'm having a look at the resolvconf merge (mentioning it as I'm touched-it-last in precise but you are for precise-proposed)
<slangasek> stgraber: ok - will you please pull in the changes from precise-proposed, then?  I had planned to do a pocket-copy
<slangasek> stgraber: actually, I could do that now if that's preferable
<stgraber> slangasek: I was planning on a udd merge of lp:debian/sid/resolvconf into ubuntu:precise-proposed/resolvconf so I'll have your change in there
<stgraber> (and then push to ubuntu:resolvconf obviously)
<slangasek> ok
<slangasek> I could pre-emptively push precise-proposed to ubuntu:resolvconf
<stgraber> hmm, precise-proposed/resolvconf doesn't exist?... that's a bit annoying
<stgraber> slangasek: right, precise-proposed/resolvconf doesn't seem to exist (yet?) for some reason. I'll just import the .dcs locally into ubuntu:resolvconf before the merge
<slangasek> stgraber: nah, just let me push it up to the branch
<slangasek> stgraber: ubuntu:resolvconf updated
<stgraber> slangasek: thanks
<ChrisTownsend> Hi, an updated gwibber-service-sohu package by kenvandine to fix https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gwibber/+bug/959757 was uploaded on 2012-04-26, but the package was rejected.  Who would know why it was rejected?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 959757 in gwibber-service-sohu (Ubuntu) "gwibber-accounts crashed with TypeError in function(): Item 0: must be a subtype of gi.Boxed" [High,Confirmed]
<seb128> bdmurray, hey
<seb128> bdmurray, I undupped bug #989819, not sure why you marked dup of "useradd: cannot lock /etc/passwd"
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 989819 in whoopsie-daisy (Ubuntu) "the signatures match code should probably consider the exception for python errors" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/989819
<infinity> seb128: Maybe it was an ironic example of bad duplicate matching? ;)
<seb128> infinity, could be ;-)
<infinity> ogra_: Well, I still haven't crashed my ac100, but this video driver's pretty lousy as doing simple things like "drawing boxes", so I'm not sure how much longer I can suffer testing it. :P
<ogra_> hehm, stop it then
<ogra_> (or try to find a UI with lots of circles, boxes arent the strenght of this driver indeed)
<infinity> Oh, actually, it seems to be able to draw boxes, it's filling them with colour that fails miserably.
<infinity> Dearest nvidia, welcome to 1990.
<smoser> cjwatson, per daviey, looking to try to d-i preseed a squashfs install... can you point me at where to start ?
<bdmurray> seb128: somebody else had marked it as a dupe of bug 988995 which is about useradd and the one I moved to duplicates of 523896
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 523896 in shadow (Ubuntu Quantal) "duplicate for #988995 useradd: cannot lock /etc/passwd; try again later." [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/523896
<lifeless> bdmurray: hi ?
<bdmurray> lifeless: hello
<lifeless> bdmurray: did you see my mail about your bug scripts ?
<lifeless> bdmurray: I don't seem to have a reply, and I don't want you guys to have a horrid surprise when the schema change goes live...
<stgraber> cjohnston: is there some way for you to force foundations-q-containers-demo to be on Monday/Tuesday or at least ensure it's before servercloud-q-lxc?
<slangasek> stgraber: track leads can do that; please pester me rather than cjohnston for such changes
<stgraber> slangasek: oh, good to know. I used to be able to do that stuff but apparently I lost all my rights with the new instance...
<melodie> hello
<stgraber> slangasek: so would be great if you could move foundations-q-containers-demo to some time on Monday or Tuesday where it's not too busy at the moment (though I'm guessing that'll all change next time the scheduler runs anyway)
<melodie> is there a tool to make a package in a few simple steps, or is the only way what is described here ?
<melodie> http://translate.google.fr/translate?sl=fr&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=fr&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fdoc.ubuntu-fr.org%2Ftutoriel%2Fcreer_un_paquet&act=url
<slangasek> stgraber: done
<melodie> I arrived about at the middle of the page and it seems very long to me. I would like to learn and have this one package to try on, which does not exist at debian/ubuntu :
<melodie> http://code.google.com/p/mimarchlinux/wiki/OpenBoxMenu
<slangasek> melodie: http://wiki.debian.org/IntroDebianPackaging
<stgraber> slangasek: thanks
<melodie> slangasek, thank you !
<xnox> slangasek++
<cjohnston> stgraber: slangasek when something is manually scheduled it will not move again
<slangasek> yep, I know
<cjohnston> ok.. stgraber then. :-)
<slangasek> but we don't have any other way to enforce "this before that" constraints
<cjohnston> correct..
<cjohnston> He said it would probably change when the scheduler ran again... was letting him know it wouldnt
<slangasek> ah, yes
<stgraber> cjohnston: I know it won't be moved, I was saying that the "pick a quiet spot" part of my request wouldn't last for long with the auto-scheduler as other session will likely move to that spot at some point
<cjohnston> ahh
<cjwatson> smoser: you're probably best off starting with the live-installer source packages, perhaps in combination with Debian live CDs (live.debian.net) as a reference implementation
<smoser> cjwatson, thanks.
<adam_g> trying to prep an SRU for the first time without sponsorship. do i need to only push to the -proposed branch and let someone from SRU team upload to -proposed? or am i to upload the source package as well? docs seem a bit lacking here
<smoser> you upload to -proposed, adam_g
<smoser> i wouldn't bother pushing to the branch
<smoser> let the importer handle that.
<roaksoax> adam_g: yeah, upload to -proposed, and subscribe to ubuntu-sru
<adam_g> smoser: so just dput the *_source.changes, and getting it to the correct pocket is handled on the server side?
<smoser> assuming you've done the debian/changelog correct
<adam_g> yeah
<smoser> (ie, that should say precise-propsed
<smoser> and make sure your version number is correct
<smoser> roaksoax, will review if you want to give him a diff
<smoser> :)
<DoctorPepper> hi guys!!
#ubuntu-devel 2012-05-04
<melodie> gn
<pitti> Good morning
<kees> heya pitti!
<pitti> hey kees, how are you?
<kees> good, you?
<pitti> quite fine, thanks!
<kees> I'm excited to see everyone next week :)
<pitti> kees: ah, you'll be on UDS? great!
<infinity> Oo, you're coming?
<kees> yup! quick hop down the coast :)
<infinity> kees-sponsored beer BoF?
<kees> I need to present my new "survive my USB stick" challenge :P
<infinity> Sounds dirty.
<kees> dunno about _sponsored_, but drinking BoF I'll attend.
<kees> "survive inserting this USB stick and I won't laugh at you" ?  not a good ring to it.
<kees> anyway, should be fun
<infinity> I'm not sure I want to take part in this challenge.
<infinity> Sounds sketchy.
<kees> I didn't weaponize it too much!
<infinity> That's not comforting. ;)
<kees> hehe
<slangasek> yeah, it's really disappointing
<kees> how about "tell me what this USB stick is?"
<kees> and slangasek can't help!
<slangasek> heh
<slangasek> that's fine, I'm too busy screaming at startpar anyway
<kees> haha
<kees> I'm still trying to right myself after spinning in circles to make some changes to klibc actually build
<slangasek> my upstart startpar changes were never tested with a job that starts and immediately stops again on boot
<slangasek> so of course the first package I look at trying to submit upstart patches to Debian for does exactly that (anacron)
<kees> argh
<slangasek> now to figure out which part of the startpar code the race is in
<kees> "I'll start with 'a'!" urf
<slangasek> it was actually one that was on my TIL merge list :)
<kees> in other news, some additional hardening updates from Debian are trickling into quantal now. fun to watch! http://outflux.net/ubuntu/hardening/
<kees> and at current rates, debian will catch up with ubuntu on the package build hardening front some time in early 2014 http://outflux.net/debian/hardening/
<infinity> kees: What issues were you having making klibc build?
<kees> infinity: just trying to figure out how to correctly refer to a library in a different directory.
<kees> infinity: I ended up realizing there was another place I could copy the logic from.
<kees> but I get dizzy any time I watch klibc build :)
 * infinity notes that the SWE bar appears to have been lowered.
 * infinity ducks.
<kees> sick burn!
<infinity> Okay, so maybe it'll be an Adam-sponsored beer BoF after I took that cheap shot. ;)
<kees> hehe
<slangasek> oh, that startpar bug was much simpler than I thought
<slangasek> just needs listen() to have a backlog so we don't miss incoming upstart connections :P
<scientes> how am i suppose to version something that hasn't been released and is coming from git?
<scientes> i can do `git rev-parse --short HEAD` to get a g<sha1>
<scientes> but howabout the date?
<scientes> and do i need to do all this wierism to generate a orig.tar.gz?
<scientes> or can it just work natively with git and branches somehow?
<chilicuil> nice question scient.es I'd like to read the answer too
<scientes> I'm tempted to just make it a native debian package
<scientes> but that doesn't seem like the right thing to do
 * micahg thanks infinity for the devscripts update
<RAOF> scientes: Generally one does $LAST_RELEASE+git20120504.$SHA or $NEXT_RELEASE~git20120504.$SHA (with 8-char shas)
<scientes> RAOF, and if no releases, 0.0.1 ?
<TheMuso> 0.0.0
<scientes> and that date is the packaging date, not the last commit date?
<TheMuso> tahts what I've done in the past.
<RAOF> Either.
<TheMuso> so 0.0.0+git20120504 for example.
<scientes> ok, so back to the original question, its east to use rev-parse to get the sha1 of of a refspec, but how about the date of that refspec?
<RAOF> You can also just to â0+gitâ, because 0.$POSITIVE > 0+git
<scientes> git show --format=format:"" didn't seem to have anything useful
<RAOF> git log will give you the commit date.
<scientes> and do i use git archive to make an orig.tar.gz?
<RAOF> But if you want to automate the whole shebang... you can see xserver-xorg-video-nouveau's get-orig-source target.
<scientes> RAOF, finially there is an answer
<scientes> RAOF, where? http://anonscm.debian.org/gitweb/?p=pkg-xorg/driver/xserver-xorg-video-nouveau.git;a=tree
<scientes> oh i see it
<scientes> http://anonscm.debian.org/gitweb/?p=pkg-xorg/driver/xserver-xorg-video-nouveau.git;a=blob;f=debian/rules;h=de4cc9c4a2ffa2c437eb3a2eb614f5845b9e50dd;hb=HEAD
<RAOF> debian/rules, get-orig-source:
<RAOF> sudo build-me-a-tarball
<scientes> sudo make me a sandwich :_
<scientes> :)
<micahg> just as long as it's not little bobby tables :)
<RAOF> Eh.  We all do proper input sanitisation, right? :)
<scientes> RAOF, why do you clone fresh every time? why not --reference=. ?
<RAOF> scientes: Because that target is meant to ensure that an arbitrary person can get a tarball; it can't rely on anything outside of the package.
<scientes> ahh, that why not git archive
<scientes> to export
<RAOF> Probably because at the time I wrote that I was sick of wrangling git to do what I wanted. :)
 * scientes loves git
 * scientes doesn't like seeing all the deduplication features of git go to waste
<doko> SpamapS, http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=667198
<ubottu> Debian bug 667198 in handlersocket "handlersocket: ftbfs with GCC-4.7" [Important,Open]
<BenC> kirkland`: Will you or any other @canonical.com's me at FTF in San Antonio next month?
<BenC> *be
<infinity> BenC: kirkland's not a Canonical employee anymore.
<BenC> infinity: Ah, lots happens in a year..
<BenC> infinity: Who's in charge of the server team now?
<BenC> or would otherwise care about my question :)
<infinity> BenC: Daviey, though I suspect he's not planning to be in San Antonio.  He may know if someone else is. :P
<infinity> BenC: Or SpamapS may know.
<BenC> infinity: ok, thanks
<dholbach> good morning
<dupondje> E: changelog for this version is not (yet) available; try https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/cyrus-sasl2/+changelog
<dupondje> but they are available ...
<micahg> dupondje: yes, but are they on changelogs.ubuntu.com?
<dupondje> ah nope :)
<dupondje> tought it was looking @ the launchpad page, but its an alternative :)
<dupondje> should parse the launchpad page ^^:)
<erle-> how about computer janitor clearing /var/cache/apt?
<micahg> dholbach: python-levenshtein shouldn't have been sync'd, can you readd the dh_python2 diff please?
<dholbach> hum
<micahg>  - use python-support instead of python-central; Closes: #617011
<dholbach> will do - I clearly didn't look closely enough
<micahg> thanks
<cjwatson> pitti: aha!  thank you for tracking down bug 909292, as I'm pretty sure that's what was giving me grief in ubiquity
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 909292 in python3.2 (Debian) "Crashes when C calls Python callback with Python3 due to local ctypes module build configuration" [Unknown,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/909292
<cjwatson> fortunately I hadn't spent too much time on it yet
<pitti> cjwatson: indeed, I'm getting all sorts of bug reports on that
<cjwatson> merely stared at the screen in a baffled kind of way
<pitti> it seems 90% of the incoming reports with py3 are due to that
<pitti> that <censored> bug took me some 15 hours to track down..
<pitti> cjwatson: so does it work with the -proposed version now?
<cjwatson> I'm just updating to that now to se
<cjwatson> e
<pitti> cjwatson: you are porting ubiquity to py3?
<cjwatson> pitti: yep
<cjwatson> pitti: I have a decent number of the tests passing, but still lots more to do
<pitti> I'm about 95% done with apport now
<pitti> I still need python3-xdg and python3-launchpadlib, but most code can deal without these
<pitti> it's so much fun untangling bytearrays and strings..
<cjwatson> I need python3-pyicu, but I've sent a patch for that to Debian
<cjwatson> (well, which I need to correct it seems, but)
<cjwatson> also usb-creator, I think it's rather easier
<cjwatson> python3-launchpadlib is ultimately blocked on oauth
<cjwatson> barry's spreadsheet (IIRC) suggests switching to oauth2
<pitti> ah; it seems wadllib and many lazr modules are already available
<cjwatson> Yeah, I did part of that last cycle before running out of time and blocking on oauth
<cjwatson> I think we're close to a tipping point for a lot of Ubuntu-specific things - just a few more libraries
<cjwatson> I'm *very* keen to port ubiquity because we've had so many undetected Unicode errors in the past, and Python 3 will force those front and centre
<pitti> yeah, I noticed the same in apport
<pitti> it essentially needs to handle both kinds, so adding a few more test cases was enough to trigger a gazillion errors from running it
<pitti> instead of waiting on the crash reports to come in
<cjwatson> code that needs to handle both is a pain ...
<dholbach> micahg, done
<micahg> thanks
<pitti> what annoys me is that there is no simple way of checking whether an object is a "string", you need separate py2/py3 cases there
<cjwatson> most of our archive tools should be ready once python3-debian and python3-launchpadlib are available
<cjwatson> porting Launchpad will be interesting ;-)
<cjwatson> pitti: isinstance(foo, six.string_types)
<pitti> and I'm using gems like b'a\xe2\x99\xa5b'.encode('UTF-8') to get a constant unicode string in the tests
<cjwatson> if you're willing to depend on python{,3}-six
<doko> I'll need to get the distribute ready for 3.3 ...
<pitti> instead of a simple "aâ¥b'
<cjwatson> pitti: from __future__ import unicode_literals
<cjwatson> (changes semantics of all literal strings in the file, but that's often OK for tests)
<pitti> cjwatson: ah, that makes "a" what used to be u"a"?
<cjwatson> indeed
<pitti> ah, good
<cjwatson> works with >= 2.6
<pitti> cjwatson: yes, that's fine, as the code needs to work with both 2 and 3 anyway for a fair while
<pitti> cjwatson: thanks for the hint
<pitti> but most of the time I must say it's workable
<cjwatson> barry reckons most Python files should start with 'from __future__ import absolute_import, print_function, unicode_literals', I gather
<pitti> I just found one thing for which there is absolutely no compatiblity between the two
<cjwatson> personally I think unicode_literals can be difficult outside tests, at least if there's an API to preserve
<cjwatson> pitti: oh?
<pitti> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~apport-hackers/apport/trunk/view/head:/apport/REThread.py#L64
<cjwatson> pitti: six.reraise
<pitti> the syntax for re-raising an exception object changed, and neither version accepts the syntax of the other
<pitti> cjwatson: yeah, external dependency again
<cjwatson> which indeed uses the same exec hack, but at least it makes it somebody else's problem :)
<pitti> I've got quite a few "if sys.version ..." comparisions anyway, at least they are greppable
<cjwatson> I'm using six in ubiquity, on the grounds that once we're comfortable with ditching py2 compat there it'll be easy to drop
<pitti> ("grepable"?)
<cjwatson> greppable, I think :)
<cjwatson> and I ended up using six in my python-debian port as well, because it was far too much trouble not to
<pitti> cjwatson: http://www.googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GB&word1=grepable&word2=greppable disagrees :)
<cjwatson> pitti: bah
<cjwatson> so far in update-manager I've managed to get away without
<cjwatson> I seem to be working on the stuff that starts with 'u' :-P
<pitti> I'm just a bit wary of introducing more dependencies, as this stuff needs to run in chroots, the data center, stable releases, etc.; asking for -six might not be too much trouble, but I could avoid it
<cjwatson> yeah, apport is perhaps a special case
<cjwatson> update-manager has to be a bit careful as well due to the dist-upgrader tarball
<pitti> cjwatson: U> don't we all? :-)
<cjwatson> in retrospect, I'm very glad that lucid had python 2.6 and python-apt (pre-)0.8
 * cjwatson unbreaks rmadison, sorry about that
<cjwatson> (cleaned up a local ~/bin/ script which was also installed in /usr/bin/; didn't notice madison.cgi was using it)
<cjwatson> pitti: confirmed that this python3.2 fixes my segfaults
<pitti> \o/
<pitti> one bug to rule them all
<cjwatson> usb-creator-gtk actually manages to show its UI now; ubiquity gives me a TypeError, but that's just next in the list ...
<cjwatson> (nothing to do with ctypes, I think)
<dholbach> hum, somehow my python-levenshtein upload didn't make it to LP?
<doko> cjwatson, it was the libffi_pic.a library linked to the python3 executable
<dholbach> ah no, there it is
<dholbach> *phew*
<cjwatson> doko: I meant my TypeError in ubiquity was nothing to do with ctypes :-)
<cjwatson> but previously I had the segfault you just fixed
<micahg> dholbach: you might want to have a look at this: http://wiki.debian.org/Python/PythonSupportToDHPython2, meh, not your fault, last diff was wrong as well :)
<micahg> dholbach: it's no worse than before at this point
<dholbach> ok
<eagles0513875> hey Sweetshark do you happen to have a link to the launchpad bug or upstream make bug in regards to the parallell issue in make 3.81 cuz i would really like to push a bump up to 3.82 for this release cycle if possible
<micahg> eagles0513875: I thought I already mentioned it's in debian experimental
<eagles0513875> micahg: thats what im confused on now is in regards to what repos are being pulled from according to this link https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2012-April/035155.html
<micahg> eagles0513875: right now testing, TBD at UDS, merges/syncs from other repos as needed
<eagles0513875> micahg: i understand as well that its in experimental just want to backup my push for 3.82 with the bug report
<eagles0513875> micahg: here is the bug report to backup why i want to get us bumped up to 3.82
<pitti> \o/ apport test suite now fully works for both python 2 and 3
<eagles0513875> micahg: :D seems like the fix made it into the upstream package :)
<ogra_> bdrung, seeing you are in debian-multimedia and that you have done the last audacious-plugins upload, would you mind pulling cjwatson's b-dep fix from precisce-proposed into the debian package ?
 * ogra_ had some arm users asking about it in precise and just noticed the fix in -proposed
<cjwatson> I'd forgotten about that, should stick it in -updates/quantal
<zaytsev> hi folks... i'm remastering the livecd which is later intent to transform into a live usb. what's the correct way to prevent ubiquity from starting on boot?
<cjwatson> don't pass any of the *-ubiquity boot args
<zaytsev> i know i can just remove --purge ubiquity, but this will also remove it copletely and kill the desktop icon
<ogra_> cjwatson, well, i dont think an upload to quantal makes sense, debian will benefit from it too
<zaytsev> cjwatson: so i remove only-ubiquity from isolinux/txt.cfg ?
<ogra_> its not that we are late in the release yet :)
<cjwatson> ogra_: it's in -proposed, it should go somewhere
<ogra_> oh, indeed, -updates for sure
<cjwatson> and -updates should <= quantal
<ogra_> yeah
<cjwatson> it's easy to sync later
<ogra_> k
<cjwatson> zaytsev: sounds right
<cjwatson> zaytsev: well
<cjwatson> zaytsev: maybe also drop hidden-timeout=whateveritis from /isolinux/gfxboot.cfg
<zaytsev> cjwatson: ok, thanks, but when i will make an usb out of it, will i also have to modify syslinux somehow, or this will work too?
<cjwatson> should work with the same configuration
<zaytsev> cjwatson: ah thanks for the gfxboot tip, it seems that i should just make it chose live instead of live-install and this will also keep the original functionaity
<zaytsev> cjwatson: awesome thanks a lot man
<cjwatson> no problem
<cjwatson> audacious-plugins looks plausible in -proposed, promoting now
<ogra_> great
<bdrung> ogra_: done: http://anonscm.debian.org/gitweb/?p=pkg-multimedia/audacious-plugins.git;a=commitdiff;h=fed6c9546ebd5b94eab42d1f70f8c011ec80c772
<cjwatson> bdrung: ta
<cjwatson> sorry I didn't forward that, it was in the middle of release crunch
<bdrung> cjwatson: no problem and no need any more :)
<ogra_> awesome !
<bdrung> ogra_: that was an easy and quick task :)
<ScottK> sabdfl: Rev 24 of the revised CoC resolves the concern I expressed in yesterday's CC meeting.  Thanks.
<barry> cjwatson, pitti everything work out okay? :)
<cjwatson> so far
<barry> great!
<cjwatson> ScottK,sabdfl: yep, me too
<stgraber> xnox: if you want to help with the nagios-nrpe sru validation, they're all in now
<xnox> stgraber: ok.
<bigon> hi, any idea what's the licence for the circle of friend logo?
<sladen> bigon: the files themselves should be CC-BY-SA.  How you use it depends on trademarks
<sladen> bigon: what are you trying/wanting to do?
<bigon> sladen: gnome-boxes is including the circle of friend
<bigon> and I'm trying to figure out if it could be included into debian
<bigon> sladen: ^
<sladen> bigon: http://launchpad.net/ubuntu-branding/+filebug?field.title=gnome-boxes+licence+of+CoF+for+Debian
<sladen> bigon: and I'll try and sort you out one under whatever licence needed (thought content should be CC-BY-SA anyway)
<ScottK> sladen: If the license is Debian specific, it's not DFSG free.
<ScottK> So, to avoid questions, make it license and not license for Debian.
<ScottK> A license for Debian doesn't help.
<SpamapS> doko: ACK, I'll get on it. There's a new upstream to package as well.
<bigon> CC-BY-SA is DFSG
<sladen> I believe what ScottK was kindly attempting to point out is that "a Licence for one organisation" would fail DFSG #5, however what we would do is to ensure that the upstream version of gnome-boxes had licensing that was clear enough for everyone.  If it isn't then that's where the failure is and where we need to get it fixed
<ScottK> Trying, perhaps not very well.
<sladen> bigon: however regardlessly, it would be good to have a place to track this
<sladen> bigon: with longer-longevity than IRC scollback
<bigon> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=671251
<ubottu> Gnome bug 671251 in general "do not include non-free content" [Blocker,Unconfirmed]
<bigon> there is already an upstream bug open for that
<sladen> bigon: even better, ta.  (BTW, if it's often useful to mention/paste the upstream URL first as it helps everyone get up to speed with better context)
<bigon> yeah sorry
<bigon> so for my part what should I do? ask gnome-boxes upstream to get a licences for the project?
<bigon> (or I didn't understand?)
<arand> bigon: I think a restrictive trademark policy might be able to fail the DFSG as well, http://www.ubuntu.com/aboutus/trademarkpolicy is probably what would have to be scrutinized, if anything.
<bigon> (yeah I was thinking about firefox/iceweasel thing)
<bigon> I'm opening a bug on the LP
<arand> Though then again, the debian swirl would likely fail that test as well :) I've heard there's onging work there though...
<sladen> bigon: I've added  https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=671251#c10
<ubottu> Gnome bug 671251 in general "do not include non-free content" [Blocker,Unconfirmed]
<sladen> bigon: is that sufficient?
<xnox> How to do a local [s|de|pde]build *with* pkg mangler and/or debug symbol generator?
<sladen> bigon: Zack's current intention/wish I believe is to move all restrictions over to being trademark based
<tumbleweed> xnox: mk-sbuild will install pkgbinarymangler
<tumbleweed> but basically, you just install it in the chroot
<xnox> tumbleweed: awesome =) thanks.
<bigon> sladen: let's hope :) thx
<bigon> arand: well there is 2 logo for debian one official and one non official http://www.debian.org/logos/
<sladen> bigon: slightly more complicated than that.  There are four (main) variations.  swirl;  swirl + text;  wine bottle;  wine bottle with text
<sladen> bigon: those with text are covered by trademarks.  Those with the wine bottle may only be used by DDs
<bigon> yeah I was to fast to read
<cjwatson> pitti: Is there a useful equivalent of python-gi-dev for Python 3?
<cjwatson> pitti: Or do I just keep on using python-gi-dev?  It's a bit confusing that it Depends: python-gi
<zaytsev> cjwatson: i'm still confused with isolinux. so it says default live, which is the "try ubuntu" entry and doesn't have only-ubiquity (unlike "install ubuntu"), however, when i boot maybe-ubiquity gets added to the parameters and it shows up
<zaytsev> cjwatson: but what confuses me particularly is that when i press some key and select the menu with enter, it doesn't get added and everything works
<cjwatson> You didn't remove hidden-timeout
<cjwatson> Like I said
<zaytsev> cjwatson: right, but if i remove it then i will have to select an item by hand, right? this is not what i want
<cjwatson> You can still have a timeout
<cjwatson> Do you actually want the splash screen?
<zaytsev> cjwatson: well yes, this would be nice, i want it to work exactly as it works now, but wihtout ubiquity showng up. except that something evil adds maybe-ubiquity to the parameters if i don't select the item by hand and so it gets triggered
<cjwatson> It's possible you'll need to rebuild the gfxboot theme, then
<zaytsev> cjwatson: i grepped isolinux for maybe and it seems to be in bootlogo
<cjwatson> It's in the gfxboot-theme-ubuntu source package; the patch I expect you want is http://paste.ubuntu.com/967136/
<zaytsev> cjwatson: is it checksommed? maybe i'll just hack it with the hex editor?
<cjwatson> No, that's almost certainly seventeen orders of magnitude more pain than doing it properly
<cjwatson> Apply that patch, build binary package, fish out bootlogo from binary package, replace
<zaytsev> cjwatson: ok thanks for the patch, i'll do both at the same time and see what finished first :-)
<cjwatson> If you're building a derived distribution, I rather hope you're comfortable with building packages :)
<alexbligh1> openjdk-headless on lucid contains the library /usr/lib/jvm/java-6-openjdk/jre/lib/rt.jar. I want to get the EXACT source this was built from. apt-get source says 'http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~openjdk/openjdk/openjdk6'. On executing the bzr get indicated, it retrieves a directory with no versioning and no .java files. How does one retrieve this?
<alexbligh1> More precisely I'm looking for ChunkedOutputStream.java
<infinity> alexbligh1: If you want the exact source, you want 'apt-get source openjdk-headless'
<infinity> (Though, I assume you mean openjre-headless)
<infinity> Or, openjdk-6-jre-headless, even. :P
<cjwatson> And ignore the bzr branch it tells you to get, if it's wrong.
<cjwatson> Or not useful.
<infinity> I'm all for ignoring it, full stop, if the goal is seeing the "exact source used to build the binaries", since that's always the source package.
<cjwatson> Yep.
<cjwatson> yofel: Did anyone ever verify that last-minute software-properties upload to precise-proposed?
<cjwatson> It'd be nice to get that synced up in precise-updates/quantal.
<yofel> cjwatson: I did, just forgot it wasn't yet out to precise
<alexbligh1> infinity, that's what I would have thought, but that doesn't seem to be the case
<yofel> thanks for the reminder
<cjwatson> alexbligh1: How do you mean?
<cjwatson> There's no other way binaries get into the archive.
<alexbligh1> infinity, I am looking for the file 'sun/net/httpserver/ChunkedOutputStream.java' which is used to build rt.lib, which is provided by openjdk-headless
<alexbligh1> And though rt.lib is (somehow) built by that file, it does not contain the class
<alexbligh1> openjdk-6-source (which is not a source package) has a zip file in, which has that file in, which has a bug in.
<alexbligh1> I just don't understand how the java stuff is built
<alexbligh1> jar tf on rt.lib shows that class file was (somehow) used to build the rt.lib in it.
<cjwatson> After getting the openjdk-6-jre-headless source package, cd to the directory it gives you and run 'debian/rules patch'.
<cjwatson> Then you'll find that file in build/openjdk/jdk/src/share/classes/sun/net/httpserver/ChunkedOutputStream.java .
<cjwatson> (That debian/rules target is run as part of dpkg-buildpackage, pre-build)
<cjwatson> (I don't actually know anything about OpenJDK as such, just wrangling the build targets, so don't ask me for OpenJDK-specific advice ...)
<alexbligh1> cjwatson, thanks. I am missing some build-depends but will sort that out.
<alexbligh1> cjwatson, me neither :-)
<alexbligh1> I am very much hoping the answer is 'but you can just install the precise openjdk on lucid' but I think I may be in library hell/
<alexbligh1> cjwatson, thanks. Does Lucid take bugfixes to thing like Java? Specifically this one: http://bugs.sun.com/bugdatabase/view_bug.do?bug_id=6744329 which claims to be released in 6u18(b03) but is mysteriously absent in the Ubuntu .20 point release.
<infinity> alexbligh1: We'd SRU for things like that, sure.  File a bug with a pointer to the patch.
<alexbligh> l
<infinity> @pilot in
* udevbot changed the topic of #ubuntu-devel to: Archive open | Ubuntu 12.04 (Precise Pangolin) is released! | Dev' of Ubuntu (not support or app devel) | build failures -> http://bit.ly/HaWdtw | #ubuntu for support and general discussion for hardy -> precise | #ubuntu-app-devel for app development on Ubuntu http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment | See #ubuntu-bugs for http://bit.ly/lv8soi | Patch Pilots: infinity
<alexbligh1> infinity, thanks, will do
 * dholbach hugs infinity
 * xnox winks at infinity
<infinity> Is it getting hot in here, or is it just me?
<dholbach> haha
<infinity> dholbach: Hey, in exchange for piloting goodness, you can totally install all the precise-proposed packages from http://pad.lv/994208 and leave verification feedback on the bug, right?  Thanks. ;)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 994208 in clang (Ubuntu) "Needs to know about quantal" [Undecided,In progress]
<dholbach> infinity, man, I was just about to head out
<dholbach> and use emacs?
<dholbach> what else?
<infinity> dholbach: *snicker*
<infinity> I don't think I've had emacs installed for over a decade.
<infinity> Going on two, actually... Last time I used it extensively was university.
<infinity> PS: I'm old.
 * xnox starts emacs with init
<infinity> Heathen.
<infinity> I bet your terminals have white backgrounds too.
<Chipzz> I heard once you can actually chsh /usr/bin/emacs
<Chipzz> (or whatever the exact path is)
 * dholbach starts to panic and looks for exit signs
<Chipzz> haha lol vim fan here :)
<Chipzz> but... *off-topic* :P
<xnox> infinity: http://ethanschoonover.com/solarized
<infinity> This dude takes his colours rather seriously...
<roaksoax> smo/win 6
<csgeek> is there a live stream of UDS ? I can't make it out there 'till Friday.  I was hoping I could catch some of what's going on
<slangasek> mvo: 993190> this discussion again? :-)
<slangasek> mvo: we already don't show any debconf prompt on a stock desktop system
<slangasek> mvo: it's only when users have extra services installed that the prompt shows up
<infinity> mvo: There's "auto-expand-termimal" code?  I've never actually seen that happen. :P
<cjwatson> It only happens if libgtk2-perl (or similar) is missing when update-manager starts, not when it's deconfigured or worse at the point when debconf actually needs to ask a question.
<cjwatson> It's a startup check.
<cjwatson> So it's no use for Perl transitions.
<zaytsev> cjwatson: sorry, was distracted; patching bootlogo with a hex editor took 2 sec and works as a charm, i would go the hard way, but it's all your canonical people fault: i've got so used to launchpad that i don't even have pbuilder set up locally ;-)
<cjwatson> as you like :-)
<mvo> slangasek: right, in this case it was a user that had rsync installed by their admins (for rdiff-backup I think). I don't mind being overriden here, but I'm concerned about the breakage that can happen if the upgrade stops this early :/
<mvo> infinity: well, there should be :/
<cjwatson> there was another bug where I had a go at analysing this too
<cjwatson> bug 979661
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 979661 in update-manager (Ubuntu) "oneiric to precise: debconf: unable to initialize frontend: Gnome and falls back to Dialog" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/979661
<slangasek> mvo: right, I don't think I've ever seen the auto-expander code, as infinity mentions... any chance we could fix *that*?
<slangasek> I'm very reluctant to restart arbitrary services out from under the user that we know very little about
<cjwatson> you'd have to do some pretty cool things with vte to make it dynamically auto-expand
<cjwatson> though I suppose that's why we have vte in there
<mvo> slangasek: certainly, this is a bug in itself if that does not work that needs fixing
<slangasek> mvo: do we have an environment variable that tells us if we're in a release-upgrade or not?
<doko> today I found three damaged hard disks when upgrading my build machines ... just one is running now. not a good day :-/
<slangasek> if we could key on that, I'd reluctantly accept auto-restarting
<slangasek> because during a release upgrade users should expect restarting
<cjwatson> mvo: oh, I got a bit carried away with some Python 3 preparation in update-manager and ended up doing the bulk of the port, pending a few libraries and bug-fixes
<mvo> cjwatson: woah, very nice!
<slangasek> what I don't want is for this question to silently cause restarts on a library upgrade alone, when the user may not be expecting it
<cjwatson> mvo: it's just in trunk, feel free to review :)
<cjwatson> it won't quite run yet
<infinity> slangasek: I'd almost say that I wouldn't mind restarting if the frontend was a GUI one, but that's my own elitist "servers don't have GUIs, and desktop users want stuff to Just Work" belief, and probably not widely-held. :P
<slangasek> infinity: desktop users don't install servers and already don't have this problem
<slangasek> so the affected users are doing strange things with their desktops and I don't think we can safely extrapolate
<infinity> slangasek: True, it's a curious cross-section of people.
<infinity> slangasek: That said, if we have no issues with daemons auto-restarting on their own upgrades (and, indeed, we don't), why are we so anal about the same happening during a library upgrade?
<mvo> cjwatson: out of curiosity, why trunk and not a seperate branch if its not quite running yet?
<infinity> (For a long time, I've been wondering if there'd be a sane way to auto-restart daemons any time a dependency was upgraded, to make sure security updates took, etc)
<slangasek> infinity: because users don't look at "oh, there's a libpam update" and automatically think "my database server is going to be offline, I should prepare for that"
 * mvo looks at the auto-expand problem now
<infinity> slangasek: No, they don't, and that's not something we should change in a stable release, but I'm wondering if maybe socialising that expectation might not be a bad idea.
 * infinity shrugs.
<slangasek> it will always catch some people by surprise
<infinity> Yup.
<slangasek> beware-of-leopard, etc
<infinity> So will having stale libraries loaded when you thought you were current on security updates.
<slangasek> well, that's why the upgrade doesn't let you silently fail to restart services
<cjwatson> mvo: I don't believe I broke Python 2, so I didn't think it mattered
<cjwatson> mvo: my preferred porting approach involves gradually translating things into the common subset of both languages, with the odd sys.version conditional where there's no alternative; this tends to be pretty trunk-friendly - but also the changes tend to be very extensive and touch lots of files in small ways, so I didn't want to have to maintain a long-lived branch that would be hard to merge
<cjwatson> anyway, I don't think it'll take much longer to complete the app side of this port
<mvo> cjwatson: aha, thanks, I missed the bit that it continues to run just fine in py2
<mvo> fwiw lp:~ubuntu-core-dev/update-manager/precise should have a fix for the timeout handling
<cjwatson> at some point we can drop py2 compatibility, but I'd rather wait until after the py3 port is well-established, and in the case of u-m it might need to keep working with py2 until after T
<mvo> cjwatson: yeah, exactly, at least the dist-upgrade part will have to, so this approach makes perfect sense
<cjwatson> slangasek: there's an env var you can check - look at debconf, it uses it
<slangasek> cjwatson: mm, not finding any obviously-named vars when grepping the debconf source
<slangasek> mvo: hmm, how does that update-manager change fix things?  I only see a change to the timeout length...?
<mvo> slangasek: sorry, http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/update-manager/precise/revision/2392 is the relevant change
<mvo> slangasek: its a bit confusing I guess I should reorder that
<slangasek> ah :)
<slangasek> mvo: cool - do you plan to upload today?
<mvo> I will try to get to it, my test looks good
<slangasek> sweet, thanks
<mvo> yw
<cjwatson> slangasek: apparently I was thinking of libssl1.0.0.postinst
<cjwatson> [ "$RELEASE_UPGRADE_MODE" = desktop ]
<slangasek> cjwatson: right - I think we're already checking that var, but I wasn't sure if it was specific to release upgrades... I should double-check
<cjwatson> pretty sure it is
<slangasek> cjwatson: yep, seems to be... so I guess we can reasonably restart without warning after all
 * Laney sees infinity's updates come down the tubes
<slangasek> cjwatson: keep an eye on the terminal> yes, mvo has committed a fix to do that now
 * infinity lunches.
<slangasek> apw: bug #989793 is looking interesting; could we have a race between plymouth-splash, and nouveaufb replacing efifb, in the case of an EFI boot?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 989793 in plymouth (Ubuntu) "blank screen on startup" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/989793
<cjwatson> slangasek: well, ish - as I mentioned in the bug, it's a five-minute timeout
<slangasek> right
<slangasek> sorry, saw that mail after :)
<adam_g> when seeking sponsorship for SRu, how can i file a merge proposal of a branch into precise-proposed/$foo if $foo doesn't have a precise-proposed branch yet?
<tumbleweed> you can't. so just use precise/$foo
<tumbleweed> and it will have t obe marked as merged manually
<infinity> adam_g: Or just provide a diff in the bug.
<adam_g> thanks
<adam_g> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/990742  has a debdiff attached, just need to initiate a no change upload to -proposed
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 990742 in openldap (Ubuntu Precise) "slapd fails to upgrade: requires libsasl2-2 (>= 2.1.24) installed" [Undecided,Triaged]
<Daviey> cjwatson: hey, happen to be around?
<cjwatson> Daviey: packing, what's up?
<Daviey> cjwatson: Happen to be able to spend a few minutes pointing to d-i support for casper/squashfs?
<Daviey> cjwatson: I can see how to boot INTO a live enviroment.. but not unpack to disk via d-i, skipping packages unpack/configure etc.
<cjwatson> Daviey: look at the live-installer source package, please
<cjwatson> Daviey: and compare with the Debian Live images, which install this way
<cjwatson> I pointed smoser at the same things the other day - did a message get lost somewhere?
<Daviey> cjwatson: Probably, i'll dig in.. Trying to tie it together.. Thanks.
<cjwatson> debian/live-installer.postinst is the entry point
<cjwatson> in support/squashfs you can see that it already has support for casper's squashfs path
<Daviey> yeah, just saw that
<cjwatson> this just replaces the bootstrap-base step (i.e. debootstrap), although obviously might install more packages than debootstrap does depending on what's in the squashfs
<cjwatson> you would probably separately need to tell pkgsel not to do anything
<cjwatson> but that's fairly easy, I bet you can just iterate until it DTRT
<Daviey> cjwatson: thanks!
<cjwatson> np
#ubuntu-devel 2012-05-05
<DoctorPepper> hi guys!!!
<DoctorPepper>  i need some help ,  since upgrading to 12.04 booting  take 300s from grub to working desktop (note i am using kde).  my configuration  is  250go hdd   under btrfs over lvm( /home and / partition).
<sreich> you mean if you don't hit enter it takes 300s?
<DoctorPepper> no  i am talking about the whole boot process from grub(2s wait) to  a full  active kde session
<DoctorPepper> with autologin activated
<DoctorPepper> sreich:  any idea?
<sreich> you could try looking at ~/.xsession-errors for where it hangs
<DoctorPepper> sreich:  http://i46.tinypic.com/2d0jluq.png  is the bootchart of my last start cold start
<sreich> unreadable
<DoctorPepper> you should download the image on your pc and open it image view and zoom
<cyphermox> DoctorPepper: that long flat line towards the top, that's likely an issue; but I'd recommend asking in #ubuntu for help; this channel is meant for development
<DoctorPepper> cyphermox: i know but since ubuntu devs are in here  i guess it's the best place to complain a release that has a bad behaviour
<cyphermox> not everyone is listening at all times. #ubuntu has people who can help and may have seen such an issue; it also might not be a bug.
<DoctorPepper> i cant see how this  can not be a bug  . since  my system use to boot in around 50-70 s
<infinity> @pilot out
* udevbot changed the topic of #ubuntu-devel to: Archive open | Ubuntu 12.04 (Precise Pangolin) is released! | Dev' of Ubuntu (not support or app devel) | build failures -> http://bit.ly/HaWdtw | #ubuntu for support and general discussion for hardy -> precise | #ubuntu-app-devel for app development on Ubuntu http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment | See #ubuntu-bugs for http://bit.ly/lv8soi | Patch Pilots:
<vibhav> Can anybody nominate https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libdvdread/+bug/894170 to Natty?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 894170 in libdvdread (Ubuntu) "libdvdread core dumps with invalid next size" [High,Fix released]
<tumbleweed> vibhav: what about oneiric?
<vibhav> tumbleweed: And oneiric
<tumbleweed> sure
<vibhav> thanks
<vibhav> Weird, I can only download debian files for quantal
<vibhav> and precise
<vibhav> tumbleweed: Any Idea why?
<tumbleweed> vibhav: what are "debian files" ?
<vibhav> .debian.tar.gz
<tumbleweed> vibhav: pastebin please
<tumbleweed> (command and output)
<vibhav> http://paste.ubuntu.com/968876/
 * tumbleweed doesn't see any errors
<tumbleweed> btw, do you know abut pull-lp-source?
<vibhav> nope
<vibhav> tumbleweed: But it is not download the .debian.tar.gz file
<tumbleweed> vibhav: that's because there wasn't one, it's source format 1.0
<vibhav> ah
<vibhav> pull-lp-source worked
<vibhav> thanks (again)
<penguin42> if Herton Krzesinski is here - thank you!!! For finally adding the libnewt-dev depend on the kernel - perf with a TUI!
<vibhav> tumbleweed: done
<vibhav> Can somebody nominate https://bugs.launchpad.net/indicator-network/+bug/737743 for precise, oneiric and natty?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 737743 in indicator-network (Ubuntu) "ctrl-w should close network-settings" [Low,Triaged]
<sladen> vibhav: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/indicator-network/+bug/737743 and you should see the "nominate" link
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 737743 in indicator-network (Ubuntu) "ctrl-w should close network-settings" [Low,Triaged]
<tumbleweed> sladen: doesn't one need to be in bug-control to see it, these days?
<sladen> tumbleweed: possibly.  But it won't appear at all if you're view the wrong context in the URL
<penguin42> vibhav: So why would you want to nominate it for Oneirc and Natty, - it's a low importance bug
<vibhav> sladen: I am not in bug control
<penguin42> vibhav: Even for Precise I'm not sure
<tumbleweed> also, what penguin42 said
<vibhav> hmm
<vibhav> Lets get it in quantal first
<cjohnston> slangasek: ping
<BenC> What's the package that can handle source+binary uploads for a local archive?
<BenC> I don't need buildd, just something to process incoming source+binary.changes files into pool and rebuild packages+sources+contents, etc
<stgraber> BenC: I guess you could do that manually with dpkg-scanpackages and dpkg-scansources
<stgraber> or something like reprepro (haven't used it in a long long time)
<BenC> I want it process an incoming directory and move things into place itself
<BenC> Hmm, reprepro looks like it might handle that
<BenC> stgraber: thanks
<BenC> along with inoticoming
<dupondje> Damn there is really something wrong with the amd64 ppa's :(
<geser> BenC: take also a look at "mini-dinstall"
<BenC> geser: excellentâ¦that's more what I was looking for, thanks
<vibhav> cd ..
<vibhav> oops :(
<dupondje> nobody from the Mozilla team around ? :)
<vibhav> try #ubuntu-mozillateam
<dupondje> quite sleepy in there :)
 * tumbleweed imagines a lot of people are travelling to UDS. I'm about to spend the next ~30 hours on planes and airports :/
<dupondje> joy! :)
<slangasek> cjohnston: heyo
<highvoltage> am I missing something? sessions used to link to blueprints as well in the old summit.
<highvoltage> but now I it only seems to link to etherpad? http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-q/2012-05-07/
<slangasek> highvoltage: do you have a particular session in mind?  because clicking on a session should take you to a page on summit.ubuntu.com that includes both an iframe for the etherpad and a link to the blueprint
<slangasek> SpamapS: what do you think about copying python-central to -updates a little bit early?  Bug #955936 is one of the top crashers reported in the crashdb; getting that fixed would probably help with the crashdb backlog a bit
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 955936 in python-central (Ubuntu Precise) "pycentral crashed with NameError in run(): global name 'arch' is not defined" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/955936
<infinity> +1
<highvoltage> slangasek: ah that works, thanks
<cjohnston> slangasek: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/community-q-summit  a list of all of the blueprints that have had issues so far
<slangasek> cjohnston: I noticed :)
<slangasek> cjohnston: fwiw I got stuck trying to get summit going locally, django-admin throws me a path error that I'm not sure how to fix
<slangasek> cjohnston: any hint? http://paste.ubuntu.com/970187/
<slangasek> (this is when running DJANGO_SETTINGS_MODULE=ubuntu_settings django-admin sql)
<cjohnston> slangasek: not sure how you set it up, but we run it as ./manage.py runserver --settings ubuntu_settings
<cjohnston> while in the virtualenv
<slangasek> ah, using a virtualenv, ok ;)
<cjohnston> slangasek: summit.readthedocs.org
<cjohnston> grr
<cjohnston> it isnt on there anymore
<cjohnston> nvm
<slangasek> looks like maybe I need to read the INSTALL file
<slangasek> doing so now ;)
<cjohnston> no
<cjohnston> install wont help
<cjohnston> make is broken
<slangasek> oh
<cjohnston> basically create a virtualenv.. python 2.6.. then pip install -r requirements.txt
<cjohnston> i think that should get you
<slangasek> ok
<cjohnston> slangasek: http://paste.ubuntu.com/970196/
<cjohnston> found ti
<cjohnston> i need to get those up again
<SpamapS> slangasek: reading now
#ubuntu-devel 2012-05-06
<SpamapS> Ok maybe not a crumper ;)
<SpamapS> lol wrong window
<SpamapS> I just love buffering
<SpamapS> slangasek: released to updates
<slangasek> SpamapS: cheers :)
<infinity> SpamapS: And actually accepted to -updates. ;)
<naryfa> If there's anybody advanced here, or if anybody could point me in the right direction I'd appreciate it. I'm trying to change animation in gnome-shell's js/ui. Anybody familiar with the code?
<vibhav> Good Morning
<vibhav> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/request-tracker3.8/+bug/769765 : can it be nominated for oneiric?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 769765 in request-tracker3.8 (Ubuntu) "Missing dependency for libapache-dbi-perl" [Undecided,New]
<vibhav> (for request-tracker4 only)
* vibhav changed the topic of #ubuntu-devel to: 9
<vibhav> oops
* vibhav changed the topic of #ubuntu-devel to: Quantal: Archive open | Ubuntu 12.04 (Precise Pangolin) is released! | Dev' of Ubuntu (not support or app devel) | build failures -> http://bit.ly/HaWdtw | #ubuntu for support and general discussion for hardy -> precise |#ubuntu-app-devel for app development on Ubuntu http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment | See #ubuntu-bugs for http://bit.ly/lv8soi | Patch Pilots:
* cjwatson changed the topic of #ubuntu-devel to: Archive open | Ubuntu 12.04 (Precise Pangolin) is released! | Dev' of Ubuntu (not support or app devel) | build failures -> http://bit.ly/HaWdtw | #ubuntu for support and general discussion for hardy -> precise | #ubuntu-app-devel for app development on Ubuntu http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment | See #ubuntu-bugs for http://bit.ly/lv8soi | Patch Pilots:
* cjwatson changed the topic of #ubuntu-devel to: Archive open | Dev' of Ubuntu (not support or app devel) | build failures -> http://bit.ly/HaWdtw | #ubuntu for support and general discussion for hardy -> precise | #ubuntu-app-devel for app development on Ubuntu http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment | See #ubuntu-bugs for http://bit.ly/lv8soi | Patch Pilots:
<cjwatson> (people have probably noticed that 12.04 is out by now)
<vibhav> heh
 * vibhav waits
<vibhav> cjwatson: Can you nominate https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/request-tracker3.8/+bug/769765 for precise?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 769765 in request-tracker3.8 (Ubuntu) "Missing dependency for libapache-dbi-perl" [Undecided,New]
<cjwatson> no, I've been awake for goodness knows how many hours, critical judgement is beyond me and I'm about to crash
<infinity> vibhav: With recommends being installed by default, that change leads to fairly unpleasant behaviour.
<vibhav> Is it installed by default?
<infinity> Recommends are.  As in, if you "apt-get install foo" all of foo's recommends get installed.
<vibhav> ah
<infinity> So, that change means installing mod_perl, mod_fcgi, mod_fcgid, and dbi-perl just because someone wanted RT.  Seems suboptimal.
<vibhav> "Add Recommends on all Apache-related modules; although any one can be used to produce a working configuration, installing them all will result in less confusion
<vibhav> Says the changelog
<infinity> I see that.  But that's silly.  If any one can be used to produce a working config, then do so? :P
<infinity> If the problem is that speedy-cgi-perl isn't actually good enough on its own, then the dependencies need to be fixed to deal with that, not make people install every other possible working config.
<infinity> It might just be that the deps here are expressing something a bit wrong.  I'm betting that you need libapache-dbi-perl to use RT with mod_perl2.  So, having it depend on "mod_perl | dbi-perl | other_method" is weird.
<infinity> Dropping the mod_perl dep entirely might fix it, since libapache-dbi-perl already depends on mod_perl.
 * infinity shrugs.
<vibhav> SO shall I drop mod_perl dep?
<infinity> I'm not sure how the RT packaging then decides which method you have installed and how it configures them, but it feels very wrong to me to just go nuclear and install and configure them all. :P
 * vibhav nods
<infinity> If the mod_perl/dbi-perl method is the preferred one (which it is currently, being at the head of the list), I'd move libapache-dbi-perl to the front of the list and drop mod_perl from there.  That probably fixes the general case.  Probably still doesn't make it perfect.
<infinity> Actually, if every one of those ORed lists started with libapache-dbi-perl (and no mod_perl) I think that would express what the packager wanted, yeah.
<infinity> You'll then end up with either mod_perl/dbi-perl, or one of the other CGI options.
<infinity> But never mod_perl without dbi-perl, which is what's causing the bug.
<vibhav> SO what shall I do?
<infinity> I'd recommend the above to the Debian maintainer.  And do the same in Ubuntu.
<infinity> Do, drop the Recommends: line entirely, and on all the "foo | bar" deps, remove mod_perl, and move dbi-perl to the first position.
<infinity> s/Do/So/
<infinity> dbi-perl depends on mod_perl, so that gives exactly what you want, IMO.
<infinity> vibhav: Added a lazy copy/paste comment to the bug.
<SpamapS> infinity: thanks for the alley-oop there ;)
<vibhav> Can https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mutt/+bug/965772 be nominated for precise?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 965772 in mutt (Ubuntu) "mutt-org crashed with SIGSEGV" [Medium,Confirmed]
<melodie> hi
<melodie> I want to try to learn how to package, and got the doc, printed it, installed all the build programs.
<melodie> I would like to know if there is a particular difficulty when starting if the program to be packaged does not provide a configure ?
<jtaylor> melodie: that can be a problem, packaging is easier if it uses a more or less standard buildsystem
<melodie> hi jtaylor
<melodie> the dev told me he will not go throught the process of making a configure because he can't take the time for that. I have been using his program in several distros along the years and would like to bring it to Ubuntu. In fact, this little program is the key to a type of openbox environment.
<jtaylor> how does it build? just a makefile?
<melodie> jtaylor, do you think the people here are likely to help me along the process,
<melodie> it builds with a Makefile, yes : just "make" and "sudo make install" does the work.
<jtaylor> does the makefile honor DESTDIR?
<jtaylor> then your usually fine
<melodie> I have installed a Ubuntu Mini, and now all works
<melodie> does the file honor DESTDIR ? If I write DESTDIR in the packaging files it will go to the dir I say. For now, the "make install" has send the binary to /usr/bin
<melodie> is my answer relevant ?
<jtaylor> make install should put the files in $(DESTDIR)/$(prefix)/...
<melodie> well, I asked the dev, he said I can use destdir
<melodie> I have a first question about the doc. Here is the page I am reading now : http://wiki.debian.org/IntroDebianPackaging#Step_1:_Rename_the_upstream_tarball
<melodie> how come all the commands are root ? Shouldn't they be done as user ?
<jtaylor> why should they be root?
<melodie> jtaylor, this is the question I am asking : the howto shows commands done as root : do you think that it is an error ?
<jtaylor> I don't see that there
<melodie> ie : # mv hithere-1.0.tar.gz hithere_1.0.orig.tar.gz
<jtaylor> no commands besides pbuilder need root, some of them (e.g. installing) need fakeroot
<melodie> # tar xf hithere_1.0.orig.tar.gz
<melodie> all the commands in that page are starting with a hashtag
<melodie> this is why I wonder
<jtaylor> that just denotes its a shell command
<jtaylor> it has nothing to do with which user does it
<jtaylor> somethims $ or > is used instead
<melodie> ok
<melodie> what about the archive format ? I have a tar.bz2 : is that ok or should I rearchive it in another format ?
<jtaylor> thats fine
<melodie> thks
<melodie> I have done the changelog file with the dch command as the howto says, and now I read at debian/compat : but there is no more command to create it and the following file, which should be "control": should I use another howto to know what are the precise steps from now ?
<melodie> perhaps the debian doc is not up to date ? or missing details ?
<melodie> I could use this one also : http://translate.google.fr/translate?sl=fr&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=fr&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fdoc.ubuntu-fr.org%2Ftutoriel%2Fcreer_un_paquet&act=url
<melodie> ?
<jtaylor> debian/compat is just a number in a file
<jtaylor> for control just copy the one from the guide and change the values
<melodie> ok, therefore I create them manually. ok. :)
<pitti> cjwatson: indeed, it should probably depend on p-gi | p3-gi
<melodie> I have installed yelp and had to start it from console as I could not find it in the menus. there, it crashed, wich triggered a window which sent (supposedly) a bug report. Is that enough or is it necessary to go report the bug manually too ?
<melodie> this is in Ubuntu mini 12 04
<melodie> is the minimum version number for Build-Depends always needed, or just the package name is ok ?
<jtaylor> if the minimum version is available in all stable releases you can skip it, or if you don't want to backport it
<melodie> jtaylor, thanks
<dupondje> heh, article on tweakers.net about EA games on Ubuntu :)
<melodie> now about the depends : the doc says the codes in the default line are magic. I don't figure out, if I just leave this line alone, or if I leave the default and add the depends ? The program needs libmenu-cache1 and libgtk2.0-0
<melodie> ie:
<jtaylor> melodie: lets move this to #ubuntu-packaging please
<melodie> jtaylor, I didn't know that chan : thanks !
<SpamapS> ugh, moving partitions around on my mac seems to have confused grub
<vibhav> Can somebody nominate https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mutt/+bug/965772 for precise?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 965772 in mutt (Ubuntu) "mutt-org crashed with SIGSEGV" [Medium,Confirmed]
<SpamapS> vibhav: anybody can nominate it, only core devs can accept it. :)
<jtaylor> I think that changed
<jtaylor> only bug control can nominate
<angelo-c> hi guys, i made some patches to a nearly abandoned software, xoscope, i would be really glad to make my patches going upstream to debian but i don't know how to do, can anyone help me?
<cjwatson> so if vibhav is doing lots of this, he should join bugcontrol rather than asking here a lot ...
<dupondje> angelo-c: report a bug on the package in debian. :)
<angeloc> dupondje: i thought there was an automated procedure in launchpad
<dupondje> really? don't think so :)
<infinity> There's submittodebian.
<infinity> But it's really just a fancy wrapper around debdiff and reportbug.
<angeloc> dupondje: i think that really a low percentage of contribution going upstream without an automated system
<angeloc> dupondje: and also opening a bug in debian is really a pain!
<SpamapS> cjwatson: any advice for /usr/sbin/grub-setup: error: will not proceed with blocklists.
<SpamapS> ?
<angeloc> dupondje: there is an automated method, using submittodebian you can send a patch upstream, really cool
<penguin42> SpamapS: Was that the only thing it said?
<SpamapS> penguin42: no, thats just the most annoying part of what it said. ;)
<SpamapS> /usr/sbin/grub-setup: warn: This GPT partition label has no BIOS Boot Partition; embedding won't be possible!.
<SpamapS> /usr/sbin/grub-setup: warn: Embedding is not possible.  GRUB can only be installed in this setup by using blocklists.  However, blocklists are UNRELIABLE and their use is discouraged..
 * SpamapS tries --force because the alternative is a reinstall at this point. :-P
 * SpamapS reboots w/ fingers crossed
<SpamapS> woot
<SpamapS> worked
<SpamapS> would be cool if gparted detected a grub install on a disk and told you to run that command. Oh wait, it did detect it, and warned me to stop at least. :)
<SpamapS> cjwatson: n/m, fixed w/ --force (based on your response to a user on the grub mailing list :)
<cjwatson> SpamapS: I strongly recommend creating a BIOS Boot Partition.  http://www.gnu.org/software/grub/manual/grub.html#BIOS-installation
<ali_> hi, how can i query for synaptic progress from a command line, im trying to add unity progressbar to synaptic, and that's my missing part of the puzzle, thanks :)
<SpamapS> cjwatson: indeed, I think I will do that after reading that page a bit ago.
<SpamapS> cjwatson: does the +mac desktop installer do that btw?
<SpamapS> I installed this machine in 11.10, and several things were pretty wonky
<cjwatson> SpamapS: it's supposed to
<cjwatson> I did fix various bugs in that general area in 12.04; I forget the exact details at this point
<penguin42> cjwatson: Did you see Matt Garrett's write up of the Fedora 17 ISO image - it's pretty insane
<cjwatson> Yes, I did
<cjwatson> Need to figure out how to port that to xorriso
<penguin42> I like his blog, it's normally a world of insane bios level pain
<tjaalton> >
<tjaalton> >
<tjaalton> > Regards,
<tjaalton> > David
<tjaalton> >
 * slangasek wonders if anyone would care to verify the SRU fix for bug #989585 using the test case there
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 989585 in resolvconf (Ubuntu Precise) "resolvconf failed to install/upgrade because /etc/resolv.conf immutable" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/989585
 * soaringsky gawks at the huge number of duplicates on that bug...
<slangasek> that's why I'd like someone to verify that it fixes it so we can publish it ;)
<soaringsky> slangasek: I would do it, but my slow internet means that the release upgrade would take hours
<slangasek> no worries
<IntuitiveNipple> I missed it; which bug? Maybe I can test?
<soaringsky> bug #989585
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 989585 in resolvconf (Ubuntu Precise) "resolvconf failed to install/upgrade because /etc/resolv.conf immutable" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/989585
<slangasek> oops, turns out that introduces a regression; marking it verification-failed myself :/
<IntuitiveNipple> OK ... I was going to test it in one of my VMs
<slangasek> cjohnston: I've continued to fail to get a working virtualenv going here; now model-mommy (pulled in via zope.interface) is broken, AFAICS from the output the upstream tarball is simply missing the tests/ subdir.  is it known to not be possible to run summit against the distribution packages?
<slangasek> cjohnston: nevermind, model-mommy doesn't seem to be packaged anyway. :P
<lifeless> cjwatson: around? I have an oddity with the alternate installer + partman + dmraid01 [mirror then stripe over 4 disks]
<lifeless> specifically, the installed doesn't activate the partitions, even though it shows the arrays and shows the partitions
<lifeless> this leads to partman trying to run tune2fs -l <arraydevice> rather than on the specific partition
<lifeless> running dmraid -ay subsequently activates the partitions for the kernel, but it still trys to run it on the array device..
<JanC> lifeless: there is also #ubuntu-installer (although cjwatson is both here & there, of course)
<lifeless> JanC: thanks; I'll lurk there and follow up whereever cjwatson does ;)
<cjwatson> lifeless: eh, not sure I have enough brain to debug that today :-)
<cjwatson> psusi's been doing most of the dmraid-related stuff of late
<cjwatson> he might well know better than I
<lifeless> cjwatson: thanks
<lifeless> cjwatson: I suspect raid01 dmraid isn't handled by the dmraid glue in partman; I can file a bug if you like (as I can apparently get this far nondestructively...
<cjwatson> I didn't think partman generally knew much about different dmraid levels; might be more like parted
<cjwatson> is dmraid01 one of those where there are multiple steps if you try to trace through the dm tables?
<cjwatson> IYSWIM
<cjwatson> it might be that parted only takes one step when it needs to recurse, or something
<cjwatson> I vaguely recall dealing with this in grub2 once
<cjwatson> debian/patches/dmraid.patch in the parted source package is probably the relevant bit of code here
<cjwatson> and psusi is the last person who rewrote that :)
 * kees still needs to refresh the bit-rotting failed raid/lvm hooks
<lifeless> cjwatson: yes, it is.
<lifeless> cjwatson: you get three dm devices; array0-1 (a mirror set), array0-2 (a mirror set), array0(a stripe over the -1 and -2 devices)
<cjwatson> right, then my jetlagged guess is that dmraid.patch needs to be smartened up for that, possibly by comparison with similar code in grub2
<lifeless> cjwatson: does it interrogate the kernel, or reimplement bits?
<cjwatson> lifeless: it asks the kernel about the table structure; it's tracing through those manually, but I'm not sure how much of that the kernel would let it do any other way
<cjwatson> dmraid.patch is only 133 lines, not that complicated
<lifeless> thanks for the pointers
<lifeless> cjwatson: as a workaround, is it possible to tell parted to not be smart, and just operate on a given device ?
<cjwatson> I don't know but I doubt it
<lifeless> cjwatson: interesting; given that dmraid can't be really be configured within the OS I am now curious why parted introspects it at all :)
<cjwatson> because it needs to exclude some devices from being shown
<cjwatson> otherwise people try to partition things at the wrong level
<cjwatson> perhaps I've misdiagnosed the problem though
<lifeless> ah yes
<lifeless> thats a good reason
<lifeless> its a shame the kernel can't just flag devices as being parts of higher order things, but perhaps it does - I haven't looked at the non-kernel interfaces around dmraid
<lifeless> non-kernel-internal, I mean.
<melodie> gn
<matthew-parlette> I'm looking to make alarm-clock more useful with the HUD, but I can't find any links for development support on it, is there anything written down for it yet?
#ubuntu-devel 2013-04-29
<gotwig> hey
 * hyperair wonders how reliable ext4 is with auto_da_alloc,data=writeback.
<ggherdov> Hi all, getting this while trying the upgrade 12.10 --> 13.04 http://bpaste.net/show/ma5h6BlmF5piP2Hyh7YN/ . what's happening ? (xpost to ubuntu-motu)
<Tm_T> ggherdov: hi, 1) this is not user support channel 2) please don't crosspost (:
<ggherdov> Tm_T: ok sorry.
<Tm_T> np
<Tm_T> ggherdov: #ubuntu would be the correct place for user support (:
<ggherdov> good,
<Kano> hi,can somebody set raring as default and saucy optional for packages.ubuntu.com?
<hrw> ^C11:08 hrw@puchatek:~$ gcc --version
<hrw> gcc-4.8.real (Ubuntu 4.8.0-4ubuntu2) 4.8.0
<hrw> thanks doko ;)
<ivoks> hi; there's a problem with synaptic when running in nb_NO locale; it crashes
<ivoks> reason why it crashes is known and has been fixed in translations.lp.net few months ago
<ivoks> but, it looks like fix never made it to raring
<mitya57> ivoks: link to the wrong string?
<ivoks> so, i'm not sure what package should i blame; synaptic or langpack? (both have been built months after the fix)
<ivoks> mitya57: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/synaptic/+bug/880493
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 880493 in synaptic (Ubuntu Quantal) "Norwegian translation has some issues" [Medium,Confirmed]
<ivoks> mitya57: well, i'm not norwegian, but...
<ivoks> mitya57: i think it's this one: https://translations.launchpad.net/synaptic/main/+pots/synaptic/nb/346/+translate
<mitya57> ivoks: I'm looking
<ivoks> mitya57: it crashes only on 32bit system, but on 64bit you can see wrong chars on status line of the synaptic's main window
<ivoks> mitya57: if .mo is downloaded from lp, everything is fine
<mitya57-mobile> ivoks: two of the translations mentioned in comment 46 haven't changed, third one looks like like a minor fix
<mitya57-mobile> maybe the string numbers have changed?
<ivoks> mitya57-mobile: string numbers probably changed; check out the string i've pasted
<ivoks> mitya57-mobile: it looks like a minor change, but it makes synaptic functional; the source of the bug and the impact are known
<ivoks> mitya57-mobile: what's uknown is - how do we get this fixed in raring, since it has been fixed in LP since end of 2012.
<mitya57-mobile> ivoks: do you mean the "%i pakker i listen, ..." string?
<ivoks> mitya57-mobile: yes
<mitya57-mobile> ah, I see the wrong %sB at the end
<hallyn> hi - bug 1113821 for libvirt in raring - could that get a quick push for sru testing?
<ubottu> bug 1113821 in libvirt (Ubuntu Raring) "libvirt-bin deletes /etc/dnsmasq.d/libvirt-bin on upgrade" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1113821
<dobey> Laney: thanks
<mitya57-mobile> ivoks: I have a patch, will push when my wifi gets working again
<ivoks> mitya57-mobile: patch is for... synaptic or langpack?
<mitya57-mobile> ivoks: synaptic, it's not in main so it's not in langpacks
<ivoks> ah, that's the reason...
<ivoks> mitya57-mobile: thanks!
<mitya57-mobile> ivoks: lp:~mitya57/synaptic/nb-po-fix
<mitya57-mobile> mvo: ^
<mvo> mitya57-mobile: nice, could you please add a merge-proposal?
<mitya57-mobile> mvo: done
<mvo> mitya57-mobile: thanks
<mitya57-mobile> yw
<ivoks> mitya57-mobile: awesome!
<ivoks> mitya57-mobile: will you drive SRUs too? :)
<mitya57-mobile> ivoks: maybe, can you file a bug (one that you linked above is a more general issue)?
<ivoks> mitya57-mobile: ok, i will, tomorrow
<mitya57-mobile> thanks, then please assign or subscribe me
<ivoks> mitya57-mobile: ok
<pitti> slangasek: FYI, that was already requested in bug 1167196; I'll look at your MP, too
<ubottu> bug 1167196 in apport (Ubuntu) "should look for errors in upstart logs (once user sessions are enabled)" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1167196
<bdmurray> barry: bug 1051935 has received a few more duplicates
<ubottu> bug 1051935 in python-apt (Ubuntu) "Fails with SystemError when too many files are open" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1051935
<xnox> Laney: seb128: why was upstart activation support dropped from dbus? ted and desktop actually now needs those patches since upstart is in the user session now with the session dbus.
<Laney> xnox: Sorry, I don't know what you're talking about
<Laney> got a link or something?
<dobey> Laney: hey, is pitti at the sprint too?
<Laney> yeah
 * pitti waves to dobey, yes
<dobey> hi pitti :)
<xnox> Laney: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/dbus/+bug/1014850/comments/9
<dobey> pitti: did you see bug #1173249 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1014850 in unity (Ubuntu) "Update to 1.6.4" [High,Fix released]
<ubottu> bug 1173249 in software-center (Ubuntu Raring) "update-software-center AttributeError during upgrade from 12.10 to 13.04" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1173249
<dobey> pitti: there's a debdiff there against pygobject which maybe should also be included in the upstream debian package
<pitti> hm, no
<pitti> software-center isn't even in Debian
<jbicha> http://packages.qa.debian.org/software-center
<pitti> and it seems this rather should be the other way around, i. e. s-c and aptdaemon should bump their python-gi dep?
<Laney> xnox: I think I OKed this with Seb at the time mainly on the basis that it was unmaintained
<dobey> pitti: the problem is when the old versions of those are still installed, but new python-gi is as well
<dobey> pitti: so bumping the dep in them won't do anything if they're not installed yet
<pitti> so as an SRU, yes; sorry, meeting now, will keep the bug open and look after it
<dobey> it's to fix the crashing during upgrade
<xnox> Laney: has the upstart team notified of this? from our point of view it was in dbus and usable =) and although default install didn't use it, the facility was provided (same like e.g. upstart socket activation bridge)
<xnox> Laney: seb128 anything else? I wonder how far dbus now moved on to readd that functionality
<dobey> and software-center has no need to bump the version dep on python-gi. nor does aptdaemon really. the new version works on both the old and new python-gi. problem is that python-gi broke the old versions. because breaking API is fun
<xnox> Laney: jodh is an active upstart maintainer that things can be forked off to. regardless that scott was the original author of that patch series.
<Laney> Well, now that it's needed it seems like a good time to investigate bringing it back :-)
<Laney> Ideally via upstream too ;-)
<pitti> Laney: bring back GObjectMeta? no, that won't happen
<Laney> pitti: no, not you - talking to xnox
<pitti> it has been an internal implementation detail (documented nowhere)
<pitti> ah, ok
<Laney> I agree that aptdaemon was using private implementation that it shouldn't be
<Laney> but it still seems like Breaks: at least to aptdaemon is right
<pitti> Laney: btw, I'm landing more logind stuff; do you want to look into landing the remaining logind bits? Robert is here, too
<pitti> Laney: right
<pitti> thanks dobey for the heads-up
<Laney> the s-c one was try try and convince dpkg not to run its trigger until we have a working stack underneath it
<Laney> pitti:  where are you? I'll come along in 10 minutes ish
<xnox> pitti: bring back upstart activation in the dbus package that was dropped in quantal without asking jodh to rebase the patches.
<Laney> wait, Robert is here, wtf
<dobey> sure
<pitti> Laney: QA room, 210
<Laney> ack
<pitti> Laney: http://pad.ubuntu.com/saucy-logind-transition
<slangasek> pitti: ah, nice :)
<pitti> better than spamming everyone on each upload
<xnox> barry: in python i want `a[1][0][3] or False` to not ever raise any exceptions.
<barry> a.get(1, []).get(0, []).get(3, [])
<xnox> barry: because otherwise i have seen `a[1] and a[1][0] and a[1][0][3]` instead.
<xnox> barry: that didn't return false though.
<qengho> er.  a.get(1, [[False]])...?
<xnox> qengho: sure.
<barry> <cough>namedtuples</cough>
<qengho> try-except!
<xnox> qengho: hardly a one line =)
<barry> *finally*
<qengho> xnox: space is cheap. understanding is expensive.
<ev> bdmurray, cjwatson: I've updated the specification, creating a new "tying it all together" section with the notes from our discussion: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ErrorTracker/PhasedUpdates#next
<ev> can you have a look and make sure everything is there?
<bdmurray> ev: look
<bdmurray> er looking
<cjwatson> ev: Looks mostly there except for a discussion of the curve from 0% up to 100%
<cjwatson> (also priority -> urgency)
<bdmurray> ev: I added a couple of things
<bdmurray> cjwatson: it looks like there already is an ALWAYS_INCLUDE_PHASED_UPDATES in update-manager
<cjwatson> bdmurray: right
<cjwatson> bdmurray: I don't recall how (or if) that's exposed in the UI
<bdmurray> cjwatson: okay, the request was for a UI for it?
<ev> cjwatson: can you add the points about the curve to the wiki page?
<ev> bdmurray: I've updated the page to account for those two issues per our discussion
<cjwatson> bdmurray: yeah
<cjwatson> ev: done very telegraphically (in a meeting)
<ev> :)
<ev> thanks!
<roaksoax> deb http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ precise-proposed restricted main multiverse universe
<roaksoax> ewrr
<mpt> mterry, hey, have you seen <https://code.launchpad.net/~sjakthol/update-manager/fix-slow-calculation/+merge/161284>?
<xnox> mpt: nice. =)
<mterry> mpt, on
<mterry> mpt, no I hadn't
<xnox> Laney: pitti: seb128_: http://paste.ubuntu.com/5617392/    lxc raring container.
<seb128> hum
<seb128> xnox, do you have debug output of the job/command?
<jibel> xnox, this is a known issue with nested containers. There is a solution to fix this with latest lxc if your host is running raring too
<xnox> stgraber: ^ is looking into this....
<seb128> oh, ok
<xnox> stgraber: wants to edit configs on my host ... =/
<xnox> pitti: so in lxc container libpam-logind fails to configure if its cgroups  are not there as expected.
<xnox> thus dpkg configure fails and it's all not pretty =/
<pitti> xnox: libpam-systemd?
<pitti> yeah, I discussed this with stgraber the other da
<pitti> y
<pitti> I think he said it needs an apparmor update to allow mounting the cgroup in the container
<xnox> sure. but we should sru it in raring =/
<xnox> stgraber: ^
<xnox> or patch libpam-logind to not configure / require / blow up.
<pitti> well, you are not supposed to use libpam-systemd in raring in a production env?
<ogra_> pitti, pfft, details :P
<pitti> stgraber: did you already file a bug about the "reboot after upgrade" issue? Laney and I just analyzed this
<Laney> phew, figured it out and it's not *quite* as bad as it could be
<Laney> lolicykit
<ahoneybun> ogra_: can you make new images for Kubuntu Active?
<ogra_> ahoneybun, for nexus7 ?
<ScottK> ogra_: Yes.  Nexus7.
<ogra_> if you mean S i fear that wont work
<ogra_> we are dropping the nexus7 flavour completely
<ogra_> (we will start to use the kernel on the ubuntu touch images, which means we need to drop some patches that make the desktop touch stuff work)
<ogra_> slangasek, ^^ thats why i was wondering if we should juet let the old nexus7 kernel rot in the archive
<ogra_> *just
<pitti> slangasek, stgraber: reboot/suspend/etc. breakage after dist-upgrade fixed in policykit-1_0.105-1ubuntu3.dsc FYI
<infinity> doko: Is it intentional that gcj-4.8-jdk pulls in gcj-4.7?
<ScottK> ogra_: How about for raring?  I think ours hadn't been updated in awhile.
<doko> infinity, fix the ecj build
<infinity> doko: Oh, right.  I'll pass on that. ;)
<ogra_> ScottK, well, why would it work better there if i rebuild the already broken image ?
<ogra_> i can indeed trigger a new build, but i doubt it would work better than the last one
<ScottK> How old is the last one?
<ogra_> hmm some time around beta i think
<ScottK> Might get lucky.
<ogra_> might actually be that there is a fix in
<ogra_> ScottK, running (not sure i can monitor it though, i'm on and off here (sprint))
<ScottK> Thanks.
<ogra_> ScottK, keep an eye on http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/kubuntu-active/daily-preinstalled/
<ogra_> it usually takes between 90-120 min
<ScottK> Great.
<ogra_> (and feb was actually quite old for the last image ... )
<ScottK> Right.  So maybe we get lucky.
<cjwatson> ogra_: did you remember to say DIST=raring explicitly, BTW?
<cjwatson> ogra_: I switched cdimage to saucy by default just before you started that build, I think ... hadn't noticed you were considering a new raring build
<cjwatson> oh, you're standing next to me, ok
<infinity> Hahaha.
<cjwatson> ScottK: ogra_ said he did say DIST=raring when doing the build, which is good; but I think it'll actually spit out in http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/kubuntu-active/raring/daily-preinstalled/ since raring is no longer the default series
<cjwatson> Probably, anyway.  It depends how closely the clocks on my IRC client and nusakan are synced ...
<ScottK> OK.  Thanks.
<pitti> bkerensa: hey! do you want to upload https://launchpad.net/~bkerensa/+archive/logind now, or shall I do it for you?
<slangasek> ogra_, ScottK, ahoneybun: no, I certainly don't think we should "just" let the old nexus7 kernel rot in the archive; I think if flavors want to continue building images for n7 that requires a different kernel build than the one we're willing to maintain for Ubuntu Touch, we should have a conversation with them about assuming maintenance
<slangasek> pitti: policykit> thanks :)
<slangasek> ogra_: which one is the old nexus7 kernel, anyway?  Is that linux-nexus7?
<jbicha> pitti: I believe bkerensa will need sponsorship at the least
<pitti> slangasek, stgraber: if you caught the old version, "sudo reboot" will fix it
<ogra_> slangasek, yeah, and we will switch it to linux-grouper
<pitti> jbicha: np, I can upload it now
<slangasek> ogra_: ah
<ogra_> so linux-nexus7 could just stay around
<slangasek> ogra_: then what is the linux-nexus4 kernel currently in the archive?
<ogra_> a wrongly named one :)
<slangasek> ogra_: there's no reason archive-wise that it couldn't stay around, but there needs to be an explicit hand-off to maintainers other than the kernel team
<ogra_> the discussion to switch to arch vs marketing kernels only took place after the upload
<slangasek> ogra_: ah, <shakes fist at rtg>
<ogra_> well, its kind of my fault :) ... i started that scheme with the ac100 kernel
<slangasek> ogra_: anyway, it wouldn't be fair to either the Kubuntu folks or the kernel team to leave the package in the archive as-is, with Kubuntu images using it and the kernel team not actually maintaining it
<ogra_> though there it was actually right to call it like that since the kernel will never be able to run on any other tegra2
<ogra_> slangasek, we had that for a good bunch of kernels in the past
<ScottK> I'm sure we don't want to maintain a kernel for saucy.
<slangasek> ogra_: that was a *bug*.
<ogra_> all the stuff that came from linaro was just removed before raring
<ogra_> ah
<ScottK> This was just about raring.
<slangasek> yes, and that was a bug that we left packages in place that were abandonware
<slangasek> ah, well if it's just raring, then ignore me ;)
<ogra_> ScottK, well, there is not anything to do actually ... its not like there are any changes to it usually
<ScottK> We'll follow Ubuntu's lead on kernel stuff.
<ogra_> k
<ogra_> (android kernels are usually pretty stuck at what they are ... )
<slangasek> ScottK: right; the challenge there is that the kernel we'll be building for nexus7 going forward will AIUI work for Ubuntu Touch but not be suitable for X-based systems
<slangasek> (mutually incompatible patches at the moment)
<ScottK> Sigh.
<ScottK> So much for don't worry about Mir, it's all backward compatible.
<slangasek> it's not Mir that's being incompatible here, it's the Android kernel
<ScottK> OK, but it's compatible with?
<slangasek> anyway, if you wanted a Kubuntu Active image using Mir+Xmir, I suppose that would work... once the code exists... :P
<slangasek> ScottK: it's compatible with SurfaceFlinger
<slangasek> I don't know if it's compatible with Mir, even
<ScottK> OK.
<slangasek> ScottK: also, I'm playing telephone here so I may have misunderstood the nature of the compatibility issue
<ScottK> OK.
<ScottK> I need to go help with making dinner anyway.
<ogra_> slangasek, ScottK ... not a Mir/SurfaceFlinger issue ... the patch forces  the touchscreen to be an evdev device while Ubuntu Touch uses libinput
<ogra_> (in either Mir or SurfaceFlinger ...)
<RAOF> ogra_: But Mir also uses evdev?
<slangasek> so there you go - not compatible with Mir either ;-P
#ubuntu-devel 2013-04-30
<mdeslaur> infinity: could you pocket-copy xen from raring-security to saucy, pleeze?
<infinity> mdeslaur: Maaaaaybe.
<mdeslaur> infinity: sure you will, cause you're nice and all :P
<infinity> mdeslaur: Done.
<mdeslaur> infinity: cool, thanks :P
<infinity> mdeslaur: To be fair, you could have done it too.
<mdeslaur> infinity: oh?
<infinity> mdeslaur: copy-package -s raring-security --to-suite=saucy-proposed -b xen
<infinity> mdeslaur: You should be able to copy to any pocket you'd be able to upload to.
<mdeslaur> infinity: oh, I didn't know that...thanks, I'll try it next time
<infinity> (At least, I believe that's the case...)
<ogra_> RAOF, huh ? i thought it uses libinput
<RAOF> Reading from evdev
<ogra_> we dont even remotely have support for evdev on the touch images
<cjwatson> infinity: Indeed.
<ogra_> RAOF, that will cause massive issues with the kernels
<ogra_> we would have to patch them to actually provide evdev devices instead of talking to libinput
<slangasek> this seems like an architecture question for Phonedations to solve
<slangasek> ;)
<ogra_> well, lwould have been nice to know :)
<ogra_> we will definitely have issues with that ...
<RAOF> ogra_: So what's the actual problem?
<ogra_> RAOF, did you guys actually test mir on touch images (vs on the nexus7 desktop one for example)
<RAOF> Because I'm pretty sure that we're getting input events on Mir on the phone.
<ogra_> RAOF, that the assumption is that we will go on using the android HAL layer for all devioce interaction (including input)
 * ogra_ needs to relocate ... lets discuss that later (and probably in person)
<slangasek> ogra_: implying that we would be using android hal even for Mir on desktop images?
<RAOF> ogra_: So, as far as I can tell, Mir uses libinput, which reads evdev from /dev/input/*.
<slangasek> ah
<zyga> diwic: out of curiosity, the kernel associated with bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1169984 is not fixing the problem on my hardware
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1169984 in linux (Ubuntu Raring) "3.8.0-18 HDMI audio regression: Either oops or opening device fails with -ENODEV" [High,Fix committed]
<diwic> zyga, okay; what problem are you having with that kernel?
<zyga> diwic: I'm updating the bug report
<diwic> zyga, please don't
<diwic> zyga, you're probably having a different bug then
<diwic> zyga, the last thing we need is all different problems in the world in the same bug
<zyga> ah
<zyga> true
<diwic> zyga, or maybe you have both 1169984 and another bug
<zyga> diwic: I'll check if actual audio got fixed
<zyga> diwic: audio works but is distorted
<zyga> diwic: but it's better than vanilla 13.04 kernel
<diwic> zyga, ok, so that's a different bug then
<diwic> zyga, still a regression though, if the audio was non-distorted on 12.10 ?
<zyga> let me just triple check on 12.04 to ensure that audio was not distorted there
<zyga> diwic: I don't have 12.10 here
<diwic> ok
<zyga> diwic: just 12.04 and 13.04
<zyga> diwic: yes, perfectly clear audio
<diwic> ok
<diwic> zyga, please run "ubuntu-bug audio", note if both test tone sets are distorted or just the second one, and point me to the resulting bug.
<zyga> diwic: on 13.04, right?
<diwic> zyga, yes.
<zyga> rebooting
<zyga> diwic: should I expect some test playback during `ubuntu-bug audio`
<diwic> zyga, yes
<zyga> diwic: presented with the question "in what way the sound quality is bad" I'm uncertain
<diwic> zyga, just pick one
<zyga> I did't hear any sound
<diwic> zyga, ok
<zyga> diwic: the initial dialog lists several devices
<zyga> diwic: many have the same name
<diwic> zyga, what same name, "HDMI" ?
<zyga> diwic: I selected the second of the group, hoping it would be my 'hdmi 2'
<diwic> ok
<zyga> diwic: "Digital Out, HDMI"
<zyga> diwic: I just tried another, still no sound
<diwic> zyga, sounds like my apport symptom could be improved...
<zyga> diwic: hmm I suspect ubuntu-bug is broken there
<zyga> diwic: the next dialog is shown instantly
<zyga> diwic: maybe missing dependency? can I somehow see what is going on there
<zyga> diwic: I suspect it never actually tried to play anything, having crashed in the attempt
<diwic> zyga, don't bother troubleshooting the troubleshooter at this point
<zyga> ok
<zyga> :D
<diwic> zyga, maybe just file a bug with "ubuntu-bug pulseaudio" instead
<zyga> ok
<zyga> diwic: bug 1174696
<ubottu> bug 1174696 in pulseaudio (Ubuntu) "Regression in sound quality on 13.04 as compared to 12.04 (HDMI over DP) on Thinkpad W510" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1174696
<diwic> zyga, hmm, crackling and metallic feeling sounds like https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Audio/PositionReporting - could you try the stuff there and see if it makes a difference?
<zyga> diwic: looking
<zyga> brb
<zyga> uh
 * zyga is sick
<zyga> diwic: testing position fix=1
<zyga> diwic: using =1 makes it worse, sound cuts off after a second and does not go back
<zyga> diwic: trying =2
<zyga> diwic: =2 is the same as without adding that option
<zyga> diwic: tryig the scheduling trick
<zyga> diwic: module-udev-dectect has use_ucm=0 in my default.pa, is that oka?
<diwic> zyga, ucm is unrelated
<diwic> zyga, ucm is for embedded devices
<zyga> diwic: tsched did not affect this
<zyga> diwic: if you want I can record the playback
<diwic> zyga, ok, not sure what's wrong with it then
<zyga> diwic: despite using LANG=C pactl list uses some localized strings, do you know where they might come from?
<diwic> zyga, try LC_ALL=C or LC_MESSAGES=C
<zyga> diwic: nope
<zyga> diwic: so stuff that pactl prints itself is in english
<zyga> diwic: but Description fields are localized
<zyga>         Description: Wbudowany dÅºwiÄk Analogowe stereo
<diwic> zyga, right, that's not much to do about in pactl
<zyga> diwic: so where does that come frome?
<diwic> zyga, that's translated in PulseAudio, you would have to run the entire pulseaudio with LC_ALL=C to get rid of that
<zyga> ohhh
<zyga> ok
<zyga> thanks for the tip
<zyga> that means we may not be able to use Description in any heuristic
<diwic> zyga, but then sound settings will no longer be localized for you either
<diwic> zyga, well, there are "names" to every description you should use instead for heuristics
<zyga> diwic: right
<zyga> hmm
<zyga> diwic: is the hot-plug issue affecting both hdmi and dp?
<diwic> zyga, what hot-plug issue?
<diwic> zyga, no dynamic re-probing on hotplug? Yes, that affects both.
<zyga> diwic: ok
<zyga> diwic: thanks
<zyga> diwic: I found that I don't see hdmi, after I plug it, it is there, then if I un-plug it, it seems to stay there
<diwic> zyga, there was a bug that ELD info is still valid after hotplug, that I fixed recently - it probably has not reached 3.2 kernel yet, if it ever will.
<zyga> diwic: this is on raring actually
<zyga> diwic: I have a draft plan for the test \]program
<zyga> diwic: https://gist.github.com/zyga/5488243
<diwic> zyga, ok, I'd typically go for just choosing the "stereo" option, i e remove all that do not start with "hdmi-stereo"
<diwic> zyga, or do you typically want to test 5.1 surround too?
<zyga> diwic: good question
<zyga> diwic: no, let's keep 5.1 out of it
<diwic> zyga, btw, you only have to select the profile on the card; you don't need to set the default sink, instead specify what sink you want playback on when you play the sample sound
<zyga> diwic: ah, that's good
<zyga> diwic: thanks
<zyga> diwic: I'd like to use dbus api so that I don't have to parse all of that
<zyga> diwic: what is the best place to learn about this?
<diwic> zyga, about the dbus API? It's not even enabled in 12.04.
<zyga> oh
<zyga> so what other choices do I have?
<zyga> I'm good with C
<diwic> zyga, for a tool such as yours pactl + paplay seems the simplest option IMO
<diwic> zyga, otherwise, the native API http://freedesktop.org/software/pulseaudio/doxygen/
<zyga> diwic: for the simple approach, I'd have to parse the output of pactl list cards; right?
<diwic> zyga, right.
<zyga> diwic: is it any formal thing? yaml?
<diwic> zyga, there might be some python code in my apport symptom.
 * zyga mutters something about inveinting output formats
<zyga> inventing
<diwic> zyga, can't be worse than inventing libraries, can it ;-)
<diwic> zyga, I don't think it's formalised.
<zyga> diwic: haha, good point
<diwic> zyga, use the C API if you want something more guaranteed to be stable
<zyga> diwic: ok
<zyga> diwic: actually
<zyga> diwic: a feature to output json would be a nice patch on top of pactl list
<diwic> zyga, patches welcome
<zyga> diwic: that would be a good compromise on using the c api
<zyga> diwic: and I would rather have that with some simple python side
<zyga> diwic: rather than doing a custom program just for that
<zyga> diwic: thanks
<diwic> zyga, I believe json output from pactl would be encouraged by upstream
<zyga> diwic: yeah
<zyga> diwic: I think that would be good
<zyga> diwic: although with dbus api that might be seen as a useless addition
<zyga> diwic: anyway
<zyga> diwic: let's assume that's my plan
<diwic> zyga, well, question is if you actually submit json patches to upstream, how do you get it into 12.04...?
<zyga> diwic: that's a valid question but I suspect I know somoene that knows the answer
<zyga> diwic: ara is gone now
<zyga> diwic: I'll know in an hour or so
<zyga> diwic: I suspect that we could backport pactl into our testing ppa, it depends on exactly what needs to be certified
<diwic> zyga, I have upload rights for PulseAudio in Ubuntu and commit rights to PulseAudio upstream.
<zyga> diwic: ok
<diwic> zyga, and honestly, from an SRU point of view, it seems easier just for you to parse pactl as it is
<diwic> zyga, I've not done that many SRUs for pulseaudio but still I think I might want more motivation than "slightly more convenient interface for an internal testing tool" to give to the SRU approvers
<zyga> diwic: hmm, perhaps
<zyga> diwic: is there any way to access the dbus api on 12.04 or is that just gone?
<diwic> zyga, yes, "load-module module-dbus-protocol"
<diwic> zyga, it's disabled because there are race conditions on card unplug that can make PA crash.
<zyga> diwic: ah
<zyga> diwic: ok
<zyga> diwic: I guess a parser is in order then
<zyga> diwic: thanks for your help
<zyga> diwic: I'll let you know which approach we'll take
<diwic> zyga, ok, good luck :-)
<hallyn> SpamapS: could you push the libvirt raring-proposed?
<zyga> diwic: quick question, how crazy would it be to load the pa dbus module just for testing?
<zyga> diwic: and unload it later
<zyga> diwic: doable?
<diwic> zyga, I guess
<diwic> zyga, I don't know enough about the dbus module to know if it fits the purpose
<zyga> diwic: ok
<zyga> diwic: I guess parsing is really the only option then :)
<zyga> diwic: I'll make a library for that
<rbasak>   /win 19
<zyga> diwic: we've decided to create a custom parser
<zyga> diwic: and work upstream to file bugs
<zyga> diwic: about pactl list being json parsable
<zyga> diwic: about the discrepancy between x and pulse
<zyga> diwic: and anything else we may encounter
<zyga> diwic: we'd like to get a better upstream relationships
<jibel> xnox, https://code.launchpad.net/~jibel/ubuntu/saucy/python-apt/AddSaucy_lp1174562/+merge/161631
<stgraber> xnox: 15:56 < jibel> xnox, https://code.launchpad.net/~jibel/ubuntu/saucy/python-apt/AddSaucy_lp1174562/+merge/161631
<jibel> xnox, https://code.launchpad.net/~jibel/ubuntu/saucy/python-apt/AddSaucy_lp1174562/+merge/161631
<hallyn> infinity: could you push https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/raring/+queue?queue_state=1&queue_text=libvirt (raring sru for libvirt)?
<hallyn> (if i understand right that you're part of sru team)
<infinity> hallyn: I might be.
<infinity> hallyn: There are precise and quantal tasks for this too, what's up with that?
<cousteau> Changelog for aptitude:   * Apply upstream multiarch-conflicts.patch to handle conflicts on multi-arch systems.
<cousteau> ok, it only took 2 years to solve...
<cousteau> anyway, does this mean aptitude is safe now?
<hallyn> infinity: yeah those will be needed too
<infinity> hallyn: Hrm.  I like that there are 3 of the in the quantal queue...
<hallyn> infinity: yup
<infinity> hallyn: The precise one is missing a bug ref in the changelog.
<infinity> hallyn: Pls to be fixing.
<hallyn> k  (the quantal one is too i think)
<infinity> hallyn: The Q one has the bug ref a few lines up.
<hallyn> ah yes i see
<hallyn> re-pushing precise
<hallyn> (pushed)
<xnox> stgraber: what does "lxc-start: invalid sequence number 1. expected 2" means?
<cjwatson> pitti: Are you already working on the systemd/powerpc build failure?
<cjwatson> The udev/systemd cluster tickles some kind of excitingly pathological path in proposed-migration so I'd like to get it sorted out fairly sharpish :)
<pitti> cjwatson: was in a meeting, but I'll sort it out now
<cjwatson> pitti: If it helps, the full test output is http://paste.ubuntu.com/5619996/
<pitti> cjwatson: yeah, a lot of the tests don't work in our buildd environment unfortunately; I'll just disable that one for now; we don't use the journal anyway
<cjwatson> OK, cool, thanks
<pitti> (uploaded)
<robert_ancell> pitti, https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop/+archive/ppa/+sourcepub/3151169/+listing-archive-extra
<pitti> robert_ancell: \o/
<Laney> ph33r
 * pitti reboots
<pitti> robert_ancell, Laney: works fine here, and now properly kills the screensaver on user switching
<Laney> phew
<pitti> indicator-session still doesn't show the users, though; but that's marked as pending merge?
<robert_ancell> pitti, nice
<Laney> right, try that from trunk
<pitti> or is that just for suspend/shutdown?
<Laney> cyphermox: ^ do you know when dailies for indicators are starting up?
<cyphermox> the plan is actually possibly to not start them until after things can be merged for desktop/touch
<Laney> huh
<cyphermox> to give time to do the merges, fix things, make sure it all works everywhere to some limited degree of working
<Laney> so can we get indicator-session (and datetime) in for logind somehow? :-)
<cyphermox> yes, we should
<cyphermox> I think we'll do one such run, and then disable it
<pitti> OOI, can we just do a manual upload of PS packages, or would that confuse the autolanding machinery?
<Laney> yes to both ;-)
<cyphermox> Laney: I'll come see you, we need to discuss more stuff related to logind -- I've heard many stories about suspend and such not working, but it's fine here. I just want to make sure I'm set up properly
<cyphermox> pitti: you can do a manual upload of PS packages, yes
<cyphermox> it doesn't really confuse things, but it gets detected and means we need to merge the changes in afterwards
<Laney> cyphermox: there was a big bug with suspend that pitti fixed yesterday
<cyphermox> but as above ^ I guess we'll run the indicators at least once, and then disable them
<cyphermox> I'm supposed to enable all the daily stuff today
<pitti> the only broken thing known to me right now is that closing the lid doesn't lock the screen (but does suspend fine)
<cyphermox> or you know, at least for a few of the packages
<cyphermox> pitti: interesting. it's been working for me forever, didn't ever run into such a bug
<cyphermox> I upgraded to saucy on thursday or something
<cyphermox> updated yesterday morning
<pitti> cyphermox: well, "forever" means "for the last two days?" :-)
<cyphermox> yes ;)
<Laney> the suspend bug was up until you restarted your session after dist-upgrading to saucy
<cyphermox> forever given the current lifetime of saucy ;)
<cyphermox> ah
<cyphermox> then I would have never seen it, yes
<Laney> almost melted my bag at lunch yesterday :P
<cyphermox> haha ;)
<cyphermox> glad to know it's just that I restarted my session at the right time
<cyphermox> pitti: we'd be running into a similar issue with the NM session tracking changes, too
<pitti> cyphermox: but we don't restart NM on upgrades, do we?
<Laney> NM is fine here and I still haven't restarted since dist-upgrading
<pitti> Laney: want to see how far you can get with the in-memory processes without rebooting? :-)
<pitti> lunch o'clock
 * Laney is hardcore
<jbicha_> robert_ancell: why does Ubuntu have liblightdm-qt-2-dev but Debian has liblightdm-qt-dev? there's only 2 rdepends but it doesn't seem worth keeping a diff with Debian for that
<cyphermox> pitti: indeed we don't restart NM; we just use the reboot notifier.
<Laney> pitti: have you looked at porting apport?
<pitti> Laney: not yet, but on my list
<pitti> Laney: in fact, I'm currently working on apport anyway for slangasek's upstart logs, so I can do that right now
<Laney> ah, OK, was going to look but go ahead
<pitti> in_session_of_problem() ... skipped 'no ConsoleKit session'
<pitti> hah, tests even pick that up :)
<Laney> bah, reimplementing GetCurrentSession everywhere sucks
<pitti> Laney: this does nicely for me: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~apport-hackers/apport/trunk/revision/2630
<pitti> I'll do an upstream apport release now and upload
<Laney> ah, very clever
<pitti> no d-bus any more
<pitti> and dropping the requirement of GI for apport
<pitti> err, no, ignore that (the UI uses it, of course)
<Laney> ah, gnome-user-share is done upstream, yay
<pitti> Laney: it's also worth checking for patches on https://git.fedorahosted.org/cgit/
<pitti> for projects which aren't maintained upstream any more
 * Laney nods
<pitti> cjwatson: mind if I steal the packagekit merge from you? I need a newer version for proper logind support
<pitti> cjwatson: ah well, I just upload it, and receive the blame later; it's a trivial merge anyway
<cjwatson> sure, that's fine
<pitti> Laney: seems we are about halfway through :)
<pitti> RAOF: FYI, colord FTBFS with "debian/rules build", I'll commit a fix to collab-main
<pitti> t
<RAOF> pitti: Oh, where?
<pitti> RAOF: oh, it is already fixed there
<pitti> setting DEB_HOST_ARCH_OS
<RAOF> Right.
<pitti> RAOF: can we sync, or does this need a merge?
<RAOF> Is libsystemd-login-dev in main? If so: sync.
<pitti> yes
<pitti> RAOF: syncing, thx
<RAOF> Ok.
 * RAOF forgot --force on his syncpackage, so you can take it :)
<pitti> autopkgtest FTW :)
<RAOF> I'll get you to upload 0.1.33 to experimental sometime this week too, if you're game.
<pitti> sure; my sbuilders are yearning for something to do :)
<pitti> RAOF: or wait until Monday and upload it to unstable :)
<RAOF> Also win :)
<pitti> (unless you need exp glib or so)
<RAOF> Don't think so.
<pitti> assuming that Debian releases on the weekend
#ubuntu-devel 2013-05-01
 * Laney gave in and restarted
<pitti> Laney: oh noes, our test platform!
<pitti> Laney: I got myself into the large swamp of cleaning up acpi-support
<pitti> *cough* dust *cough*
<slangasek> pitti: run away
<pitti> slangasek: well, while I am at it I might as well throw out all the other cruft
<slangasek> heh
<pitti> it's just wasting cycles
<slangasek> in acpi-support?
<pitti> acpi_fakekey, oh these old times
<slangasek> most of the stuff in acpi-support is still used
<pitti> I'm dissecting the bits that are broken (like acpi_support), handled by g-s-d/KDE, or by logind and upower
<slangasek> but it's used on particular hardware that we don't have, so we can't really check if it's redundant now with the kernel
<pitti> well, but we do know that acpi_support doesn't work (and hasn't for years)
<pitti> err, acpi_fakekey
<slangasek> yes
<slangasek> well, actually
<pitti> and e. g. upower calls pm-powersave by itself, and logind suspends on lid close, etc.
<slangasek> we know that it *usually* doesn't work
<slangasek> it does work if the input device it injects the event on permits that keypress based on its mask!
<slangasek> which is why I can't say categorically that it doesn't work and dropping the scripts won't regress
<slangasek> but I guess we could sweep them up and say we no longer care
<pitti> e. g. "sudo acpi_fakekey 113" (KEY_MUTE) doesn't do anything here
<pitti> and my actual mute key works
<slangasek> not on your hardware, but I'm betting it's not on your hardware that this is triggered
<pitti> hm, so you want to keep this?
<slangasek> I don't know ;)
<slangasek> I'm just explaining my rationalization for why I haven't dropped it already
<slangasek> because I'm not *sure* that dropping it is regression-free
<slangasek> however, maybe at this point it's better to drop all acpi_fakekey, and deal with the regressions as they come in by finally fixing the kernel drivers as needed
<Laney> that command works for me
<pitti> (or the udev keymaps)
 * slangasek nods
<slangasek> pitti: scrapping acpi-support for logind handling of lid close sounds right, yes
<pitti> at least udev has keymaps for some Toshiba models
<wgrant> ajmitch: Could you do step 36 on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NewReleaseCycleProcess?
<ajmitch> wgrant: let me try & copy one forward
<ajmitch> wgrant: can you tell me when the publisher run finishes so I can remove it?
<Laney> pitti: /now/ (since I restarted) my laptop doesn't lock any more. :-)
<Laney> so it's DE agnostic
<TheMuso> wc
<ion> Nice. Clicking on a link in release notes in the release upgrade thing opens a browser as root.
<Daviey> cjwatson: Hey, could you moderate two emails i just sent to the TB please?
<bdrung> whom should i talk to about the canonical partner archive?
<bdrung> i found no contact information on the web
<Daviey> bdrung: For most things, it's probably good idea to raise here.  slangasek is a good person, but there are other people aswell.
<bdrung> the adobe-flashplugin is neither in raring, nor in saucy
<davmor2> bdrung: I thought it was added to universe
<bdrung> davmor2: flashplugin-installer is in multiverse for ages, but adobe-flashplugin comes from partner
<davmor2> bdrung: hmmm maybe but it might of been dropped. As it is nolonger supported on linux, let me check with someone who should know
<debfx> adobe still provides security updates for linux npapi flash
<davmor2> bdrung: apparently no-one is entirely sure.  Double checking is in place and if it should be it will be as soon as possible.
<bdrung> thanks
<darkxst> debfx, except mozilla have absotutely no intention of supporting the npapi crap
<ion> Errâ¦ what?
<ion> I think itâs PPAPI that Mozilla doesnât support.
<darkxst> ah yes, got my aconyms mixed up
<bdrung> the backport process seems to be complicated. why isn't it similar to the SRU process where every developer can upload a package?
<debfx> bdrung: for no-change backports I don't see how the process would be easier when developers upload the package
<debfx> launchpad probably doesn't generate meaningful diffs so it might be even more work
<bdrung> hm, okay
<debfx> is there something in particular you want to get backported?
<geser> anyone familiar with autotools knows how to tell libtool to use g++ for linking? I suspect the ftbfs from https://launchpadlibrarian.net/138652517/buildlog_ubuntu-saucy-amd64.librevisa_0.0.20130412-1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz is due to using gcc instead of g++ for linking?
<mlankhorst> geser: I'm guessing autotools is using file extension for linking, so if you want that you would need to make sure one of the extensions is .cc or .cxx somewhere
<bdrung> debfx: yes, bug #1175133
<ubottu> bug 1175133 in raring-backports "Please backport nemo 1.7.2-1 (universe) from saucy" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1175133
<cjwatson> Daviey: moderated
<Daviey> cjwatson: thanks
<bdrung> debfx: thanks. is there an overview page that shows which bugs needs attention from the backporters team (something similar to the sponsoring queue)?
 * vibhav stares at gcc
<geser> bdrung: is https://bugs.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-backporters good enough?
<vibhav> Does anyone know why aufs-tools fails to build here: https://launchpadlibrarian.net/138833414/buildlog_ubuntu-saucy-i386.aufs-tools_1%3A3.0%2B20130111-3ubuntu1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz ?
<vibhav> The build completes perfectly in raring, though
<slangasek> when you stare into the compiler, Dennis Ritchie stares back at you
<debfx> bdrung: yw. basically every open bug in the *-backports projects needs attention
<vibhav> (apparently, the header uapi/linux/aufs_type.h is not found)
<slangasek> vibhav: because the kernel has been revved in saucy, and has managed to break installation of a header maybe?
<bdrung> how do you differentiate which package needs testing and which needs to get uploaded?
<debfx> requests that lack testing should be set to incomplete
<vibhav> slangasek: Probably.
<bdrung> debfx: btw, what do you think about backporting vlc? see bug #1099003 for the request.
<ubottu> bug 1099003 in vlc (Ubuntu) "VLC 2.0.5 won't work with Opus. Please include libopus0 from n-muench PPA" [Undecided,Won't fix] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1099003
<vibhav> slangasek: gcc says the error is somewhere at /usr/include/linux/aufs_type.h:19:34. The header is probably broken, then
<jtaylor> it means the header does not exist, which is not unusual for linux headers, it needs to be updated to whatever is the interface now
 * vibhav takes a look at the source
<vibhav> Alright, the source (ver.c, to be precise) includes <linux/aufs_type.h>
<vibhav> Strange, <linux/aufs_type.h> doesn't include anything aquainted with uapi
<jtaylor> its best to check with upstream on these things
<debfx> bdrung: does this require backporting vlc or opus or both?
<bdrung> debfx: both. opus + enabling opus in vlc.
<bdrung> it could be stripped down to opus + minimal patch for vlc (instead of taking the quantal version)
<vibhav> Maybe I should preprocess the header and see if I can find anything relevant
<debfx> bdrung: we still have bug #888665 but this should work as libopus doesn't exist in precise-release (not 100% sure though)
<ubottu> bug 888665 in Launchpad itself "Backports can't build-depend on other backports" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/888665
<debfx> bdrung: backporting vlc should be fine as long as someone tests the rdepends of libvlc
<jtaylor> vibhav: its probably better to just wait for the debian maintainer/upstream to fix it at this stage of saucy development
<vibhav> jtaylor: I will try building the debian version of the package and see if it works
<jtaylor> it won't
<vibhav> The ubuntu delta was to fix an FTBFS caused to warn_unused_result, nothing related to the current FTBFS though
<jtaylor> debian will unfreeze in a week or two and update their kernel too, then the debian package will be fixed too
<vibhav> ah yes
 * vibhav crosses fingers
<jtaylor> you can already file a bug to notify the maintainer of the issue if there isn't one already
<jtaylor> (if this change is not ubuntu specific)
<vibhav> jtaylor: The package doesn't fail in debian
<vibhav> Maybe it is the kernel, as slangasek pointed out
<vibhav> jtaylor: btw, the last version was uploaded on 2012-06-29, which builds on all platforms
<vibhav> It is the kernel
<pitti> Laney: that's still gnome-screensaver, isn't it?
<jtaylor> vibhav: there is a patch upstream
<jtaylor> oh wait no I misinterpreted the error
<vibhav> jtaylor: :D
<pitti> dobey: actually, I can't upload the pygobject fix for bug 1173249 yet, as software-center hasn't been updated in saucy yet
<ubottu> bug 1173249 in pygobject (Ubuntu Raring) "update-software-center AttributeError during upgrade from 12.10 to 13.04" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1173249
<Laney> pitti: indeed - I was just happy to be immune
<Laney> but now I have to be broken along with everyone else :(
<xnox> jodh: heya
<dobey> pitti: the plan was to get it in raring and have it copied over to saucy
<xnox> jodh: dget http://ppa.launchpad.net/xnox/backports/ubuntu/pool/main/u/upstart/upstart_1.8-0ubuntu2.dsc
<Laney> dobey: pitti: we should upload the same s-c there
<Laney> if it's blocking stuff
<dobey> Laney: it hasn't even been accepted into raring-proposed yet, afaict; haven't gotten the "Accepted" e-mail at least, only "Waiting for approval"
<Laney> correct
<Laney> so what we can do is upload to saucy directly
<dobey> but it has to be a different version number, or we'll have to re-upload to raring-proposed with a different version, no?
<Laney> right
<Laney> or, bug someone to accept the SRU now :-)
<pitti> dobey: copying WFM, I can hold back the pygobject upload
<pitti> dobey: right, it's in the queue still
<dobey> Laney, pitti: since you're all at the sprint, can you all discuss it in person and do what you want with it?
<Laney> speaking of the sprint
<Laney> xnox: where you at?
<dobey> since i am not at the sprint, and all
<xnox> Laney: i'm in the kernel/phonedations/foundations room. last on the right "grand ballroom" i think.
<geser> are you at some sprint/(non-virtual)UDS?
<pitti> geser: yes, in Oakland (same hotel as last May's UDS)
<pitti> sprint
<geser> have fun then
<pitti> thanks!
<infinity> We won't. ;)
<slangasek> infinity: HAVE. FUN.
<vibhav> IMO, the word "sprint" really sounds fun
<infinity> slangasek: YOU'RE NOT MY REAL DAD.
<slangasek> vibhav: only if you never had them as a phone carrier
<vibhav> slangasek: heh
<vibhav> Believe me, phone carriers here are worse
<dobey> slangasek: the great thing about sprint is, they aren't verizon or at&t.
<dobey> actually, they were fine when i had them, aside from the fact that they aren't GSM, and the occasional attempts to sell me wireless data cards to replace my home internet connection with
<ogra_> infinity, can you give me a headsup once i should be able to try to roll a saucy rootfs ? (/me wants to try a touch rootfs build today)
<infinity> ogra_: Any time.
<infinity> ogra_: If you mean locally, debootstrap has been fine for days, if you mean livefs builders, that was sorted this morning.
<ogra_> ah, colin said you needed to update the livefs chroots
<ogra_> great !
<lamont> mountall and my fstabs hate each other it seems, in an iterative fails-to-boot- sort of way... <-- slangasek
<lamont> when I have a chroot into which I'm mounting proc and dev/shm and such, what _should_ arg1 be?
<slangasek> lamont: erm, give me your fstab and tell me which bits are failing
<lamont> proc-buildd-raring caused mountall to get lost back in the lucid(?) timeframe, and apparently "none" is the new way to fail to boot
<lamont> none /home/chroots/lamont/chroot-lucid-home/proc proc defaults 0 0
<infinity> In my world, that should be 'proc-foo', not 'none', but I'm not sure why that would make mountall sad either.
<lamont> under the right circumstances (don't ask for details, because I don't have them), that causes the machine to fail to boot, because mountall heads off into the tall grass to get lost.
<lamont> infinity: ISTR somethign to do with $1 begining with an fstypename
<lamont> there is a part of me that is considering just labeling it with a uuid
<slangasek> lamont: do you get messages from mountall on plymouth?  (must use plymouth splash)
<lamont> slangasek: data center machines, I tend not to see any console messages on them, because of distance.
<slangasek> meh
<slangasek> can you reproduce it in a local context?
<lamont> I have not had that fortune.
<lamont> -		addmount proc-$chrootname   $chrootdir/proc     proc       defaults 0  0
<lamont> +		addmount none  $chrootdir/proc     proc       defaults 0  0
<cjwatson> ogra_: I'll give an Ubuntu daily-live build a spin again and see what happens
<lamont> was my last change, with the commit message:   mountall does not like the arg1s that we were putting in fstab
<ogra_> cjwatson, great
<ogra_> i will have to add touch to the livecd-rootfs config first anyway
<ogra_> (and probably disable a ton of missing packages in the seeds)
<slangasek> lamont: mountall expects that all virtual filesystems to be mounted before it will emit any other events related to other filesystems.  Is /home/chroots/lamont/chroot-lucid-home on the root filesystem?
<lamont> in my personal case, generally not (/home is its own partition) on the DC boxes, it tends to be one big happy filesystem
<slangasek> ogra_: disabling missing packages in the seeds> nack, we should be building the images using the available ppa
<slangasek> lamont: in the case we're trying to debug a failure on?
<ogra_> slangasek, that will require hackery to actually make live-build use PPAs
<slangasek> ogra_: yes, which needs to be done
<lamont> none /home/buildd/build-saucy-live/chroot-saucy/proc proc defaults 0 0
<lamont> lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 9 2012-08-07 15:41 /home -> /srv/home
<ogra_> slangasek, i would like to first just get a tarball out, even if there are bits missing ...
<lamont> and /srv/ is its own partition
<slangasek> ogra_: that's not a useful milestone
<ogra_> no, i dint plan to use it (or propose to anyone to use it)
<lamont> ogra_: then why produce it.
<ogra_> to make sure the right thing comes out at the rear end
<lamont> my first question for any delivery is "what can I do with it?"
<cjwatson> It isn't hard to make live-build use PPAs
<slangasek> ogra_: the "right thing" requires the PPAs
<Laney> dobey: software-center> I just test built it on saucy and it failed because of an enumeration in softwarecenter/distro/ubuntu.py
<cjwatson> Shouldn't require any hackery
<ogra_> we need to add PPA support we have missing packages etc .. i dont want to be held up by that when doing the initial implementation
<Laney> ValueError: ("Could not find '%s' in ubuntu distro class please add it to DISTROSERIES", 'saucy')
<cjwatson> It's a trivial livecd-rootfs-level change
<Laney> seems suboptimal
<slangasek> lamont: aha, symlinks in the path - thanks, I think that maps to a bug that's been filed
<slangasek> checking
<cjwatson> cf. the existing config/archives/ stuff there
<ogra_> cjwatson, i know
<cjwatson> Hell, tell me what PPA to use and I'll do it
<ogra_> still i'd like to verify it wiorks
<slangasek> so it's trivial - so do it, don't hack things OUT of seeds
<cjwatson> Indeed, you can verify it just as well after the livecd-rootfs change
<slangasek> lamont: ... isn't this bug #1096079, which you filed?
<ubottu> bug 1096079 in mountall (Ubuntu) "boot fails when a mount is a dangling symlink" [Low,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1096079
<lamont> slangasek: not dangling, which was the case when /run came about
<slangasek> ok
<lamont> slangasek: having said all that, what would you like me to make $1 in those fstabs?
<lamont> so that if it breaks I can say "but you told me to!!" ...
<slangasek> lamont: I don't believe it has anything to do with the $1 now
<slangasek> lamont: what I think you should do is not do chroot submount setup in /etc/fstab ;P
<slangasek> lamont: but as I suppose you would like an actual bugfix for mountall so that it properly handles this case, please file a bug report against mountall with the fstab deets... I'm at a sprint right now so can't dedicate time today to look at it
<lamont> slangasek: I'll see what I can do.  I'm somewhat hampered by not actually seeing the bug myself.
<slangasek> lamont: well, if you can at least give me an /etc/fstab that reproduces it, I can try to find a reduced test case in there
<lamont> yeah
<ogra_> cjwatson, well, if you want to add the PPAs ... http://paste.ubuntu.com/5623284/ has the list of the ones used on the current raring builds
<ogra_> they arent building saucy yet, but serguiens said he would switch them today
<cjwatson> ogra_: OK; can you point me to the existing code that adds them?
<cjwatson> ogra_: (in the jenkins builds)
<cjwatson> Just for reference and in case I can get the sources.list.d file names to match up or whatever
<ogra_> yeah, trying to get my hands on it ...
<apw> doko, hey, i seem to have a gcc 4.8 bug in 'uninitialised variable' detection that i'd like to pass by you
<apw> (to make sure it is actually broken)
<slangasek> apw: is that why I have no linux-mako binaries? ;)
<apw> slangasek, that is indeed :)  i have it 'worked around' and i am building the next upload as we speak
<slangasek> ok
<apw> slangasek, for reasons unknown it is .xz ... which is rather slow
<slangasek> apw: hmm, but no; from the build log, the linux-mako failure is a signedness mismatch, not uninitialized variables...
<apw> slangasek, there are 3 real bugs in there before that
<slangasek> ok
<slangasek> fwiw I don't see them when looking at the log
<doko> apw, I don't see you in the kernel/engine room
<apw> slangasek, i have fixed the correctly rejected code, and then got hung up by this final one, which i have incanted at, applied a chicken to it
<ogra_> cjwatson, http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~phablet-team/touch-preview-images/ubuntu-build-phablet/files/head:/customization/archives/
<apw> doko, i'll pop round
<slangasek> apw: righto
<ogra_> cjwatson, fro https://code.launchpad.net/~phablet-team/touch-preview-images/ubuntu-build-phablet obviously
<ogra_> *from
<cjwatson> ogra_: thanks
<ogra_> cjwatson, assuming you do it in livecd-rootfs, http://paste.ubuntu.com/5623319/ has the general enablement for ubuntu-touch
<cjwatson> Ah, I was just looking for that :)
<ogra_> (we only need a tarball for the start_
<ogra_> havent added that side yet
<ev> mpt: do you still have that mock up of error reporting on the phone by any chance?
<mpt> ev, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityAndPrivacySettings#Phone
<mpt> ev, I need to copy that over to ErrorTracker
<ev> mpt: you had done one for the actual error itself, if memory serves
<mpt> oh, wait, it already is
<ev> mpt: actually, you have :)
<ev> I'm after the error has occurred mock up
<jcastro> ev: hey did phased updates ever land for 13.04?
<mpt> ev, we hadn't decided whether it should show a prompt at all
<ev> mpt: we being you and I, or the design team? I'm all in favour of it not showing a prompt at all, given Apple and Google don't
<ev> plus it makes my job easier and gives us more reports
<ev> jcastro: we have the individual pieces, bdmurray is in the process of glueing them together
<jcastro> ev: thanks!
<mpt> ev, you and I
<mpt> but yeah, no prompt seems reasonable
<ev> jcastro: https://errors.ubuntu.com/api/1.0/package-version-new-buckets/?package=jockey&previous_version=0.9.7-0ubuntu7.7&new_version=0.9.7-0ubuntu7.8&format=json
<ev> as one example
<mpt> except in a developer mode or something
<ev> mpt: woo, excellent
<ev> now all we need is a working kernel
 * ev shakes his fist at apw even though its not his fault
<mpt> A working kernel? In our operating system? It's less likely than you think.
<ev> lol
<xnox> Laney: where are you?
<Laney> 208
<Laney> did you break it?
<jcastro> ev: dude that is wicked
<ev> jcastro: credit to bdmurray on that one, but yes it is
<ev> jcastro: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ErrorTracker/PhasedUpdates#next is the result of our discussions this week
<xnox> Laney: not sure where 208 is. But yeah. Original bug report was that from the indicator-session one clicks shutdown and nothing happens.
<xnox> Laney: is indicator-session ported? Does that need an active logind session?
<Laney> not in the archive yet
<jcastro> ev: cool, someone asked why they weren't getting updates and I was wondering if it was normal -proposed delays or if you guys had flipped the switch.
<Laney> but yes
<ev> jcastro: *nods*
<dobey> Laney: i guess it'll need a patch for that then
<Laney> yep
<xnox> slangasek: how do I start a pam session by-hand for ubiquity? simply use sudo in /etc/init/ubiquity.conf ?
<Laney> dobey: are you aware of python-distro-info?
<Laney> might be useful here
<dobey> Laney: i didn't write that code, and i don't know how exactly the enumeration is used in the code, so i can't say what the best solution is. i have no idea why it does that :)
<Laney> all the fun
<dobey> Laney: but i have no issue with you adding a patch to add saucy to that list, to get it building
<Laney> will you do it upstream?
<dobey> yeah
<dobey> in trunk, don't know about sticking it in the 5.6 branch
<Laney> dobey: ok then, I'll do it
<Laney> I'll just call it ubuntu4 to avoid having to futz around with raring-proposed
<ogra_> oh, wow, seems apt-get install ubuntu-touch just works in a saucy chroot (it isnt supposed to) ... thats funny
<Laney> pitti: since I'm uploading s-c to fix this FTBFS, you'll be able to go ahead with pygobject
<pitti> Laney: ah nice; I'll wait until this is built
<cjwatson> ogra_: So, um, ubuntu-build-phablet is already using live-build; is there any reason why I shouldn't just port all this stuff into livecd-rootfs wholesale?
<ogra_> cjwatson, not really, its a different live-build version on jenkins though, i havent checked yet if there are discrepancies
<cjwatson> ogra_: Merging into the general structure of livecd-rootfs' use of live-build, of course, but it looks like it's basically just option mangling and shipping a bunch of files
<cjwatson> I'm happy to keep an eye out for the compatibility problems I know about :)
<ogra_> cjwatson, well, there is post processeing needed to roll the update.zip in the end
<cjwatson> live-build never really seems to stop being incompatible
<ogra_> but i'm about to add that
<ogra_> (similar to ac100/nexus7 post processing)
<cjwatson> Add it in ubuntu-build-phablet, or in livecd-rootfs?
<ogra_> livecd-rootfs
<ogra_> in the build script
<cjwatson> Right
<ogra_> we will need http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~phablet-team/touch-preview-images/phablet-build-scripts/files (ubuntu-data ... which should really rather be "build-update.zip" or so)
<ogra_> and treh META-INF dir
<ogra_> i plan to add both to livecd-rootfs
<ogra_> ubuntu-build-phablet is dead and will be removed ... it was for cross building the anroid trees
<cjwatson> Er, ubuntu-build-phablet is a set of live-build configuration with all the stuff we need to put the right PPAs in place
<Laney> pitti: dobey: done
<cjwatson> I've just gone through all of it and didn't see anything that was related to cross-building Android
<cjwatson> Perhaps you mean ubuntu-touch-android.sh?
<xnox> stgraber: can you please rerun the cloud-init test against the same ppa? it has an updated package ... take #2 =)
<dobey> Laney: thanks
<Laney> no probs hombre
<ogra_> cjwatson, oh, i thought you referred to ubuntu-touch-android.sh
<ogra_> sorry
<slangasek> xnox: yes, if you need to start a pam session you could do so calling 'su'.  Why do you need this?
<xnox> slangasek: can I just call pam_start()? I am removing consolekit and replacing with logind, I have the option to start a pam session which will thus do things with pam_logind. Or I do similar to what we did with consolekit and calll logind1 dbus api call to CreateSession.
<xnox> anyway, it can wait once we have daily-live saucy images.
<xnox> to test if it works.
<cjwatson> xnox: Can wait until about 25 minutes ago? :)
<xnox> haha =)
<cjwatson> Just re-enabled the cron jobs
<xnox> Laney: saucy can be fetched from http://cdimage.ubuntulinux.org/daily-live/ instead of the fake conference mirror.
<pitti> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/current/ still says raring for the most part
<cjwatson> I fixed that already
<cjwatson> And indeed beware of the conference mirror
<pitti> ah, right
<pitti> but anyway, great!
 * pitti applauds cjwatson
<slangasek> xnox: pam_start() doesn't give you a session, no.  You need to call pam_start() + pam_open_session(), and make sure you call pam_close_session() at the end, and you need to implement a pam_conv for your application given that you have no user interaction
<slangasek> xnox: however if you're only concerned about this wrt logind, I think you should just make the dbus call directly
<xnox> slangasek: hmm.... but i know it's passwordless account.
<xnox> slangasek: ack. will look into logind dbus calls.
<cjwatson> passwordless> you'd still need a dummy pam_conv to implement that
<slangasek> xnox: any pam module is allowed to use pam_conv either to prompt the user or to send them messages
<xnox> ah. I see.
<slangasek> so you need to implement the pam_conv such that you discard all these appropriately, as I think the fallback behavior might be a segfault ;)
<xnox> dbus sounds nicer than this then.
<slangasek> anyway - I think pam is the wrong abstraction, es
<slangasek> yes
<Laney> "These calls should never be invoked directly by clients. Creating/closing sessions is exclusively the job of PAM and its pam_systemd module.
<Laney> "
<pitti> Laney: so for ubiquity, my gut feeling was that we mostly just need to rip out all the CK bits and make sure that libpam-systemd is installed; so apparenlty that's too simple?
<Laney> Nothing creates the pam session
<xnox> pitti: ubiquity upstart jobs, pre-empts lightdm / DM and spawns X, dbus, etc by itself / by-hand. Thus there is no session created.
<Laney> it currently just calls CK's OpenSessionWithParameters
<pitti> ah, so there is no "su -c UbiquityMagicCommand ubuntu" anywhere?
<xnox> pitti: the only thing suspected to be broken is indicator-session which may not work to shutdown the machine.
<xnox> pitti: there is for the ubiquity window, but not for the spawned indicators.
<xnox> as far as I can tell.
<pitti> as long as that doesn't rely on /dev ACLs, etc.
<pitti> Laney: ah, so you didn't close the s-c bug with the upload; I thought there was some actual change that needs to be applied
<Laney> pitti: which bug? the upload should close bug #1173249 when it migrates
<ubottu> bug 1173249 in pygobject (Ubuntu Raring) "update-software-center AttributeError during upgrade from 12.10 to 13.04" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1173249
<pitti> Laney: right, but the s-c in the raring-proposed queue has some postinst change for this
<Laney> an attempt to work around the dpkg bug, yes
<Laney> the same change is in the saucy upload
<pitti> oh, I see; it's two changelog entries
<pitti> Laney: you didn't build with -v, so it won't autoclose
<Laney> yeah I uploaded with -v
<Laney> didn't I?
<pitti> thanks for the heads-up
<pitti> ah, then https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/software-center/+changelog just doesn't reflect that
<pitti> anyway, thanks!
<Laney> I can't remember how to find the changesfile from LP's UI
<pitti> nevermind
<Laney> ah, got it
<Laney> just got paranoid and wanted to check :-)
<wgrant> pitti: https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/144620
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 144620 in Launchpad itself "Some displayed sourcepackagerelease changes files don't have attribution" [High,Triaged]
<Laney> so if there's no author it's an indication that the uploader *did* use -V
<wgrant> Laney: Yup
<ahoneybun> ogra_: hello
<ogra_> cjwatson, http://paste.ubuntu.com/5623567/
<cjwatson> ogra_: the root cause there is "start: Job failed to start" in dbus - I think that's a matter of having forgotten to do the bits of setup involving creating a policy-rc.d script and diverting initctl before installing anything on top of bare debootstrap output
<ogra_> oh, yeah, and i didnt mount /proc either
<cjwatson> ogra_: the error that failed the livefs build is something entirely different - "Sorry: IndentationError: unindent does not match any outer indentation level (test_registry.py, line 608)"
<ogra_> its a manual build ... mainly to see the deps
<ogra_> wow
<cjwatson> ogra_: that wouldn't be architecture-independent - I suspect it's yet another instance of the pandas randomly corrupting data
<cjwatson> er, wouldn't be architecture-dependent, I mean
<ogra_> yeah
<slangasek> kenvandine: sho' nuff, it's *your* commit that regressed my window placement :-)
<kenvandine> slangasek, you're welcome :)
<kenvandine> slangasek, look at the commits to trunk from sam the same day
<kenvandine> and the next
<slangasek> kenvandine: ack
<crhrabal> yeah today's daily build did not boot for me :(
<cjwatson> crhrabal: The saucy one?
<crhrabal> yeah
<cjwatson> crhrabal: Which architecture?
<crhrabal> amd64
<cjwatson> crhrabal: I'll have a look, thanks.  It's the very first saucy daily build so may need a bit of tweaking
<crhrabal> it's bizzare cause i'm currently running saucy and have had no problems and every single daily iso last cycle booted on this machine
<cjwatson> I shouldn't expect it's anything too complicated
<Laney> might be CK; here the live session boots but only-ubiquity does not
 * Laney lunches
<cjwatson> Yeah, quite possible, so just what xnox was working on
<crhrabal> for me it gets to the plymouth screen that says ubuntu and it continues to load for about two minutes then black screen
<lifeless> cjwatson: hey; another t-b message for moderation please ;)
<Laney> lifeless: you ought to subscribe :P
<cjwatson> lifeless: done
<lifeless> cjwatson: thanks
<cjwatson> ogra_: did you try a build, or shall I poke it now?
<ogra_> cjwatson, i'm just getting the seeds in sync, lets wait until we have a new meta in place
<cjwatson> OK
<cjwatson> Oh and I guess we need the PPA copies
<cjwatson> crhrabal: Having looked, I think Laney's diagnosis is right - the long pause and blank screen is a result of ubiquity-dm crashing early and then upstart eventually falling back to a failsafe job.  I think.
<Laney> you could verify by installing consolekit and then restarting ubiquity-dm, assuming there's no useful traceback
<pitti> stgraber: can we pick your brain about lxc?
<pitti> stgraber: we tried to bind-mount the host's /run/udev into the container, but apparmor denies that; did you change anything in that regard on your machine?
<cjwatson> Oh, there's a traceback in /var/log/upstart/ubiquity.log
<Laney> cjwatson: yeah, /var/log/upstart/ubiquity-dm.log confirms it is this
<Laney> snap
<cjwatson> Which is indeed "CK, what CK"
<Laney> except you had the filename right
<Laney> looked from code inspection like this is what would happen, hence my grabbing of xnox this morning
<ogra_> cjwatson, hmm, i doubt the meta will add alll the right bits when running teh update script atm since it doesnt know about the PPAs
 * ogra_ just updated meta to saucy and is watching it ...
<cjwatson> ogra_: easily fixable
<cjwatson> At least I think archive_base/* can be a list or some other similar hack
<ogra_> yeah, lets see how it comes out, at leats it finds some of the packages
<ogra_> after all we want to get rid of the ppa
<ogra_> s
<cjwatson> Or you could just manually (or scriptedly) add them for the time being
<ogra_> yeah
<ogra_> germinate gives me a nice list of missing ones :)
<mwhudson> GPU hang back in raring :()
<RAOF> mwhudson: The one that should have been fixed by reverting a patch?
<mwhudson> well
<mwhudson> probably, but let's not jump to conclusions :)
<mwhudson> it could be an exciting new bug!
<mwhudson> hm, less stuff in syslog for this one
<mwhudson> May  2 09:46:56 narsil kernel: [97584.880176] [drm:i915_hangcheck_hung] *ERROR* Hangcheck timer elapsed... GPU hung
<mwhudson> May  2 09:46:56 narsil kernel: [97584.880181] [drm] capturing error event; look for more information in /debug/dri/0/i915_error_state
<mwhudson> and that's it
<mlankhorst> RAOF: did you hit any nouveau bugs yet?
<RAOF> mlankhorst: In saucy, or in Mir?
<RAOF> The answer's the same, though: no.
<mlankhorst> lack of trying? :P
<mlankhorst> +
<mlankhorst> oops
<pitti> stgraber: what would be an appropriate place to send patches for ltsp-cluster-accountmanager? (you are in AUTHORS)
<ogra_> cjwatson, http://paste.ubuntu.com/5624172/
<ogra_> pitti, discovering the wornderful world of LTSP ?
<pitti> ogra_: porting it from CK to logind :)
<ogra_> heh
 * ogra_ wasnt aware anything in LTSP actually uses CK
<ogra_> but then my last code contribution is probably 3 years  ago
<pitti> ./src/bin/ltsp-cluster-accountmanager asks CK if a particular user has running sessions
<ogra_> yeah, the cluster stuff is clearly stephanes child
<ogra_> he is sitting on the table in front of me, should i throw mentos ?
<pitti> ogra_: nah, it's not that urgent
<ogra_> bah ... you are supposed to give me a reason :P
<pitti> ogra_: wait -- you guys have Mentos!?
<pitti> why don't we?
<ogra_> well, these "starlight mint" things
<pitti> oh, ok
<ogra_> bah, missed him
<stgraber> ;)
<stgraber> pitti: anyway, yeah, I've got commit rights, so I'm happy to commit that stuff upstream
<pitti> stgraber: so if I mail you the patch, is that ok? or is there a bug tracker?
<pitti> Homepage: isn't very useful
<ogra_> should be on lp
<ogra_> (like all LTSP projects)
<pitti> oh, convenient
<pitti> stgraber: ok, https://code.launchpad.net/~pitti/ltsp-cluster/accountmanager-logind/+merge/161976
<pitti> argh, wrong target branch
 * Laney slaps sourceforge
<Laney> "about 15 days ago we said, Instability on various parts of the site right now (500 errors). We're working on resolving this as soon as we can."
<Laney> 15 DAYS!
<pitti> stgraber: bug 1175371 (MP attached)
<ubottu> bug 1175371 in ltsp-cluster "port to logind" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1175371
<StevenK> Laney: Pft, I've been waiting on RedHat to fix their bugzilla for 5 months now
<stgraber> pitti: thanks
<Laney> StevenK: I can't browse or fork repos or view bugs when logged in
 * Laney cuddles launchpad
<StevenK> Watch out for those spiky bugs
<GunnarHj> robert_ancell: Hi Robert!
<RAOF> Laney, pitti: You don't mind if gnome-do waits until say tomorrow before supporting logind? I want to merge a bunch of branches and do a plugin release, so I might as well do that at the same time.
<Laney> fine by me
 * Laney is excited to see a new release
<Laney> I'm still a user :-)
<ogra_> cjwatson, ubuntu-touch with manual hackery uploaded and built ... once it migrated from proposed i guess we could trigger a test build
<pitti> RAOF: absolutely, this isn't urgent
<ogra_> sergiusens, i get a lot of 404's from the PPAs , seems apart from unity-next all others are not on saucy yet
<StevenK> ogra_: PPAs need a package in the series before they grow indices for it
<ogra_> StevenK, hmm, binary copy worked for the unity-next one apparently
<StevenK> ogra_: Yes. It just needs *something* in saucy for it to have a saucy index
<ogra_> ah, so that had it probably
<ogra_> sergiusens, can we solve that somehow ?
<sergiusens> ogra_: yeah, I'll do a bump for one of those for all those PPAs
<sergiusens> I guess I should get didrocks to do it in the daily-build-next ppa
<sergiusens> I'll do the others
<ogra_> daily-build-next seems fine
<sergiusens> ogra_: excellent
<ogra_> err, nope, ignore that
<ogra_> phablet-team is the one thats fine
<sergiusens> ogra_: ack, it's the only one I did the copy to :-)
<sergiusens> ogra_: in regaards to the list, you don't need the sdk ppa as it is already in daily-build-next too
<ogra_> oh, good
#ubuntu-devel 2013-05-02
<cjwatson> ogra_: heh, I just noticed that depending on PPAs in ubuntu-touch means it will never migrate from -proposed
<cjwatson> ogra_: you might want to demote the packages in question to recommends to work around that
<ogra_> cjwatson, heh, ok
<ogra_> cjwatson, we will have to wait for the PPAs anyway
<ogra_> i doubt we'll get them all migrated today unless there is a single person with upload rights to all of them
<Bluefoxicy> "Fragmentary revision notes in English and Mandarin Chinese, course titles matching the University of Oxford 200â-â year Computational Biology MSc course. Many references and criticisms made relating to an apparently unreliable Ubuntu release titled Perky Polecat with features (none anomalous) not present in any copy of this software to date."
<Bluefoxicy> ... Perky Polecat?  37.04 is Perky Polecat?
<Bluefoxicy> sorry, 25.04 I guess
<zyga> hi
<lazka> raring PPA is broken: https://launchpadlibrarian.net/138911345/buildlog_ubuntu-raring-i386.quodlibet_2.9.99%2B5770-0~rev5770~ec16f96da206~ppa1~raring_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<lazka> fyi
<lazka> quantal too
<lazka> bad timing?
 * mlankhorst looks at excuse calendar
<mlankhorst> from the log it looks like /home/buildd/.sbuildrc is broken, so most likely everything fails :)
<rbasak> Has something change in schroot or mk-sbuild recently? My new saucy schroot doesn't seem to overlay my existing /tmp or ~ directories, which used to be handy for transferring stuff across the environments.
<lazka> ok, some went through, it only fails on this build slave: https://launchpad.net/builders/wani05
<rbasak> /etc/schroot/default/fstab does contain bind entries for /home and /tmp, but they don't seem to work now.
<rbasak> I found a workaround - I copied the /home and /tmp lines from /etc/schroot/default/fstab to /etc/schroot/sbuild/fstab
<lazka> lamont, your slave is broken ^
<lazka> Can someone please disable https://launchpad.net/builders/wani05
<lazka> It's driving me crazy that I have to rebuild until I get another builder randomly
<christoffer> anyone here knows if "locs" is short for "lines of code"? ...just curious about the added added "s" at the end of the abbreviation
<zyga> diwic: ping
<diwic> zyga, hi
<zyga> diwic: do you know how to generate a file like the one here: https://launchpadlibrarian.net/138752234/AlsaInfo.txt
<diwic> zyga, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Audio/AlsaInfo
<zyga> thanks
<diwic> zyga, on 12.10+ you don't need to download it, we ship the script in /usr/lib/alsa-base somewhere IIRC
<zyga> diwic: thanks, I'm trying to update the bug on precise
<zyga> and after dpkg -S a bit I could not find anything
<diwic> zyga, alsa-base: /usr/share/alsa-base/alsa-info.sh
<zyga> diwic: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pulseaudio/+bug/1174696 I've updated that bug, it seems that kernel fails to validate EDID on raring but either ignores or validates okay on precise
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1174696 in pulseaudio (Ubuntu) "Regression in sound quality on 13.04 as compared to 12.04 (HDMI over DP) on Thinkpad W510" [Undecided,New]
<diwic> zyga, I have a hard time believing EDID reads have anything to do with sound quality
<diwic> zyga, also, Raymond has a tendency to bring up irrelevant stuff; but he's sometimes right, too.
<zyga> diwic: well, it's an interesting difference non the less
<zyga> diwic: I wonder if the adapter is doing some tricks, it's a bit large so it might be a active adapter, it's hard to say
<diwic> zyga, if you do direct playback ( speaker-test -c 2 -D hdmi:x,y -t sine ) in 13.04, is there still metallic sound?
<diwic> zyga, where x and y is probably 1 and 1 ( hdmi:1,1 )
<zyga> diwic: let's check
<zyga> diwic: yes
<zyga> diwic: it's very strange
<zyga> diwic: how can I use speaker test to play through the built-in speakers for comparison?
<mwhudson> i think a dp->hdmi adapter more or less has to be active
<mwhudson> maybe?
 * mwhudson shouldn't be trying to think any more today
<zyga> mwhudson: hi
<zyga> mwhudson: not really, there is dual mode
<mwhudson> zyga: oh yes, i have the dual mode dp icon on my thinkpad
<zyga> mwhudson: interesting, where is it?
<zyga> mwhudson: I just checked, this unit has the same icon
<zyga> mwhudson: right above the dp port
<mwhudson> yeah
<diwic> zyga, speaker-test -D plughw:MID -c 2 -t sine
<diwic> zyga, and for hdmi: speaker-test -D hdmi:NVidia,1 -c 2 -t sine
<zyga> thanks
<diwic> zyga, and through pulseaudio: speaker-test -D pulse -c 2 -t sine
<zyga> thanks that works
<diwic> zyga, you can also try -t wav or leave it out if you want white noise. Not sure which one's best for testing metallic sounds.
<zyga> diwic: noise is very different on left vs right speaker
<diwic> zyga, are you talking HDMI now or analog output?
<zyga> diwic: analog
<zyga> diwic: btw, the nvidia part does not work
<diwic> zyga, so you're having audio distortions on analog audio now?
<zyga> diwic: well, no, it's just different, the wav playback is really okay
<zyga> diwic: I would assume noise to sound the same
<zyga> diwic: if you want to jump to a hangout and listen for yourself just say so
<zyga> huh
<zyga> diwic: hdmi just went silent
<diwic> zyga, well, some notebooks don't put too much quality into their speakers; or things around them resonate, etc...so it's not unusual for the left and right speakers to sound slightly different, unfortunately
<zyga> ah
<zyga> ok
<zyga> I was playing sine, it was very corrupted, then went silent, detaching and re-attaching the cable made it work again though so no burned out speakers :)
<diwic> zyga, make sure you wait 5-10 seconds between trying with pulse and without
<zyga> hrw: ^^ ;-)
<zyga> diwic: pulse is the same
<diwic> zyga, or one of them might fail with -EBUSY
<zyga> right
 * zyga recalls esd years ago ;)
<Daviey> cjwatson: Hey, would you have expected "base-installer/kernel/altmeta string virtual" to install the linux-virtual kernel in precise?
<anonymous_> Opinions: Is Quickly worth learning? I've never used Python and GTK together. I've seen the developer.ubuntu site say all three are recommended. I've never heard Quickly before today, so is it just promoting a new way forward??
<vibhav> anonymous_: I find qucikly easy to use
<vibhav> Though it is a matter of opinion
<vibhav> anonymous_: Also, if you any other questions on quickly, try #ubuntu-app-devel
<anonymous_> vibhav: Thanks, I thought I posted it in that channel; not good with mornings sorry :)
<vibhav> never mind
<albttashi> hi
<albttashi> want start develop on Ubuntu , any guideline
<albttashi> whats preferred  languages on ubuntu ?
<ion> The distro isnât relevant. Any language you prefer.
<sladen> albttashi: what do you want *to make* ?
<albttashi> ion, what's language is better ? which had good ide in ubuntu
<albttashi> salden: for now I want to learn , then I wanna make small desktop or web app
<albttashi> what about java ??
<hulu> helo
<hulu> who can help me with custom livecd
<hulu> i want to change /etc/skel,but the livecd create default user without /etc/skel
<hulu> who can help me
<apachelogger> hulu: you'll want to use casper for that
<hulu> apachelogger: how to do
<apachelogger> add a script
<hulu> apachelogger: where to add
<apachelogger> I don't know
<apachelogger> dpkg -L casper might help
<hulu> apachelogger: let's try
<apachelogger> just have a look for 25add-user or somesuch file, it is the one that actually adds the user
<apachelogger> so in the same folder you want to have 9000add-additional-plunder for example
<hulu> apachelogger: why 12.10 needn't
<hulu> apachelogger: are you there?
<hulu> apachelogger: are you there
<hulu> who can help me
<tkamppeter> bryce, ^^
<tkamppeter> sorry, ignore this, typo
<mzaza> I got this error while trying to decrept message using gpg gpg: decrypt_message failed: eof
<rbasak> Is there a tool that will easily verify for me that all my build-depends and depends are in main? Right now I'm manually checking using rmadison.
<lamont> apt-get --print-uris crossed with apt-cache, I expect?
<geser> rbasak: 404main - check if all build dependencies of a package are in main (in ubuntu-dev-tools)
<hulu> who can help me on livecd
<rbasak> geser: thanks, that looks promising! But it looks like it operates out of the archive, rather than out of my package source tree. This is for a merge from Debian where some dependencies have been not in main in the past. I'd like to make sure I've covered everything before sponsorshipupload.
<geser> rbasak: not sure if "check-mir" helps you there. An other option is to try to build it a pbuilder/sbuild with only main enabled
<rbasak> geser: check-mir is exactly what I wanted. Thanks! I was hoping not to have to fiddle with my schroots :)
<OdyX> tkamppeter: your cups patch for the USB backend apparently make the cups build more sensitive to USB backends presence, see  https://buildd.debian.org/status/package.php?p=cups&suite=experimental
<hulu> apachelogger: are you there?
<tkamppeter> OdyX, before, on a system without USB (or with USB turned off in the BIOS) the USB backend crashed, and so exited with some error status and a crash message in syslog, now the backend exits gracefully. Or is the problem that it issues a warning in error_log?
<mzaza> I have followed the Ubuntu beginners developer guid and while I was creating a gpg key I got a email to verify my key which I should decrypt however I get that error while trying to decrepy.
<mzaza> gpg: no valid OpenPGP data found.
<mzaza> gpg: decrypt_message failed: eof
<mzaza> I have an error while I try to gpg --list-key
<mzaza> I fixed the error when I try to list keys but I still get the error explained above
<OdyX> tkamppeter: well, it issues a warning in the error_log, which is unexpected by the test-suite, which should then be amended. :)
<OdyX> tkamppeter: as you maybe saw, I amended your "depends on avahi-daemon" change to have that only be true in Ubuntu.
<mzaza> If I can program in C++ but still a newbie, could I start by fixing bugs in Unity. Or do you recommend anything else?
<mzaza> I tried reading the guides in the Ubuntu wiki but after reading each page I feel more lost. I did setup my enviroment and installed necessary tools. And got little bit familiar with getting the code of packages.
<chilicuil> mzaza: I'd start with bitesize bugs, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Unity/Bitesize , I've never worked with unity, though, so I don't really know how hard they are
<tkamppeter> OdyX, perhaps we simply remove the warning from the patch, to make the number of warnings in the test run not dependent of the presence of USB support in the build system?
<mzaza> chilicuil: What about harvest?
<OdyX> tkamppeter: that or "also" patch the test-suite to ignore those, which is probably better.
<chilicuil> mzaza: yeah, harvest should be able to provide some easy to fix bugs
<OdyX> tkamppeter: also, DEP-3 headers to your patch would be greate
<mzaza> chilicuil: I was looking for any project written in C++, that's why I choose Unity.
<ev> bdmurray, mpt: https://errors.staging.ubuntu.com/ - we're getting closer (prodstack)
<mpt> ev, 13.10 in the legend, but "No Data Available". Is that what I'm supposed to be seeing?
<ev> mpt: there's only a single error report in there
<ev> it's using a fresh cassandra database
<ev> mpt: assuming you're talking about errors.staging.u.c
<mpt> I see
<pitti> psusi: hey Phillip
<pitti> psusi: do you plan to merge util-linux, or shall I steal this from you?
<pitti> I need to make a change to it
<mitya57> hi doko, can you please comment on debian bug 675008?
<ubottu> Debian bug 675008 in bash "bash: should handle /etc/bashrc.d (or similar) for non-login interactive shell" [Wishlist,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/675008
<mitya57> this is blocking new gnome-terminal 3.8
<mitya57> see gnome bug 697475 for the background
<ubottu> Gnome bug 697475 in general "New tab is not opened in same directory as previous tab" [Normal,Unconfirmed] http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=697475
<bdmurray> mterry: there is an issue with update-manager -c -d not showing saucy however do-release-upgrade -d works.  I haven't quite found the issue yet.
<psusi> pitti: sorry, what?
<pitti> psusi: you are TIL, so your name appears on merges.u.c.
<pitti> but I just noticed that I don't have to change it after all, so nevermind
<psusi> TIL?
<Laney> touched it last
<bdmurray> mterry: the same thing may be true for Q to R see bug 1174242
<ubottu> bug 1174242 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu) "Update Manager doesn't let me upgrade from 12.04 to 13.10" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1174242
<mterry> bdmurray, I thought that was a bug we already fixed?
<bdmurray> mterry: there is no message shown about a new release being available its not the import error
<blitzkrieg3> does anyone have some spare time to sponsor bug 8877446?
<ubottu> Error: Launchpad bug 8877446 could not be found
<blitzkrieg3> sorry ubottu
<blitzkrieg3> bug 887446
<ubottu> bug 887446 in mtools (Ubuntu) "mlabel: renaming USB stick appends "nA" to name" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/887446
<mterry> bdmurray, I can look into this
<bdmurray> mterry: that'd be great, thanks!
<cjwatson> Daviey: All other things being equal, yes, I think so.  However there are some overrides that might be looked at first, so if it's going wrong I'd need to see a full log.
<doko> apw, ogasawara: how do I enable a verbose kernel build? and why isn't this the default? I think we had this discussion in the past ...
<ogra_> cjwatson, hnmm, for-project doesnt really like ubuntu-touch, is there a way to directly trigger the livefs build without involving for-project in the new cdimage world ?
<slangasek> ogra_: you should be able to just set PROJECT=$foo cron.daily-$which $opts
<ogra_> ah, cool
<ogra_> trying
<infinity> doko: V=1
<apw> what he said
<slangasek> apw: fwiw, +1 for doko to have V=1 set for the kernel builds by default
<slangasek> apw: always better for debugging to see exactly what commands were running on the buildd at the time it went wrong...
<mitya57> doko: any comment on my message? resolving that is listed in the gnome-3.8 blueprint ...
<doko> mitya57, didn't look at it yet
<mitya57> doko: so please comment there when you get to it, thanks!
<ogra_> sergiusens, so my build fails on super-friends  and the sdk PPA ... were these the two you said that could go ?
<ogra_> (funnily it doesnt fail in my chroot)
<mitya57> shadeslayer: I've tried to look at okular abi change, it doesn't exist in clean raring but exists on clean saucy (i.e. without my poppler)
<shadeslayer> :S
<shadeslayer> that's quite odd
<shadeslayer> mayeb it's because of gcc?
<mitya57> yes, I think so
<shadeslayer> try building it on Raring + gcc 4.8 ?
<mitya57> will try now
<shadeslayer> ack, and thanks for taking care of that :)
<shadeslayer> mitya57: and it should be trivial enough to bump the ABI using X-Debian-ABI
<mitya57> I still want to know what caused it :)
<cjwatson> ogra_: It might take a whole two minutes to add ubuntu-touch support to cdimage.project :)
<ogra_> heh
<ogra_> well, it worked with setting PROJECT
<cjwatson> Feel free
<ogra_> yeah, will do ... i have to wait for a new livecd-rootfs anyway
<shadeslayer> mitya57_: :)
<ogra_> cjwatson, adding it to lib/cdimage/project.py and default-arches should be enough, right ?
<cjwatson> ogra_: Yes.  Note that ubuntu-touch-preview is already there though
<ogra_> yeah, just a copy paste job :)
<cjwatson> You should grep for all existing references to ubuntu-touch-preview
<ogra_> cjwatson, hmm, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseTeam/CDImageSetup seems pretty outdated, how /where do i push/pull nowadays ?
<ogra_> bfiller, http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/livefs-build-logs/saucy/ubuntu-touch/
<mitya57_> shadeslayer: raring+4.8 builds fine
<ogra_> bfiller, https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/ubuntu-touch.saucy
<cjwatson> ogra_: I forgot about that page; I'll update
<ogra_> cjwatson, thx
<cjwatson> ogra_: I did send you personal e-mail about it :P
<ogra_> i actually havent pushed since you redesigned the setup ...
<ogra_> oops !
<seb128> ev, do you know what could make whoopsie not report issues to the server? chrisccoulson's issues seem to go only to launchpad
<seb128> they don't show up on whoopsie's page and he only has .upload files (not .uploaded ones)
<seb128> ev, the config in /etc/default/whoopsie has = true
<ahoneybun> ogra_: do you have new images of Kubuntu Active?
<ogra_> ahoneybun, only the ones that we built for you recently
<ev> seb128: he could try running it in foreground mode: sudo stop whoopsie; sudo CRASH_DB_URL=https://daisy.ubuntu.com whoopsie -f
<cjwatson> ogra_: updated now, but see "Subject: ubuntu-cdimage private branch decommissioned" from me on Mon, 18 Mar 2013 15:41:18 +0000
<ev> seb128: let me know if you want me to come over and investigate some time after lunch
<ogra_> cjwatson, yeah, thanks
<ahoneybun> ogra_:  in the ones for Feb?
<seb128> ev, ok, thanks
<ogra_> ahoneybun, nope, the onse tou asked for a few days ago
<seb128> ev, is whoopsie having any log on disk?
<ogra_> *the ones you
<ahoneybun> ogra_: I don't see them up
<ogra_> ahoneybun, http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/kubuntu-active/raring/daily-preinstalled/... iirc cjwatson pointed you to it back then
<ev> seb128: not by default, no
<ahoneybun> Oh my bad I must have been away
<ahoneybun> ogra_: thanks!
<ogra_> :)
<seb128> ev, ok
<ev> other than the upstart job log /var/log/upstart/whoopsie*
<ahoneybun> ogra_: now for the debugging, I could not get the last ones to work right on my n7
<seb128> ev, files got uploaded after running that command by hand, weir
<ev> very strange
<ev> I wonder if whoopsie wasn't running?
<ev> and so that stop was a no-op
<seb128> ev, it was running, we checked that first
<seb128> those logs just have one line about the lock file
<seb128> weird
<ev> wow, yeah, very strange
<seb128> yeah
<seb128> ev, ok, going for lunch, thanks
<ahoneybun> ogra_: your awesome downloading them now
<mzaza> If I want to discuss development related issues to Unity Next, which channel should I go to?
<ogra_> mzaza, try #ubuntu-unity
<mzaza> ogra_: thanks
<Daviey> cjwatson: All i have is, knowing it failed - and produced, http://bit.ly/ZCA8LB . I'll dig out a log, I just wanted to check that was the expected method.
<cjwatson> Daviey: according to my memory anyway :)
<slangasek> cjwatson: hey, so I'm doing the merge on kexec-tools and am confused about why we're calling update-grub here... because I don't see anything that changes the grub config
<Daviey> cjwatson: With -virtual going away, not sure how much it matters anymore.
<slangasek> cjwatson: can you spot something I'm missing?
<cjwatson> slangasek: grub2/util/grub.d/10_linux.in:92:if [ -x "/usr/bin/makedumpfile" ] && [ -x "/sbin/kexec" ]; then
<cjwatson> slangasek: that is, update-grub behaves differently all by itself depending on whether kexec is installed
<slangasek> cjwatson: aha, thanks
<slangasek> cjwatson: should that logic arguably be shipped in kexec-tools itself?
<slangasek> (not that I'm going to take on refactoring this right now)
<slangasek> cjwatson: slightly related, kexec-tools is calling 'dpkg-trigger update-initramfs'... where I think the right interface nowadays is 'update-initramfs -u', no?
<cjwatson> slangasek: aaaarguably
<slangasek> hmmmm
<slangasek> :)
<cjwatson> slangasek: I think that probably predated update-initramfs doing its self-triggering trick, yeah
 * slangasek nods
<cjwatson> I certainly wouldn't object to dropping the grub2 patch that does the kexec crashkernel thing if it were found to be possible to do it in kexec-tools instead
<slangasek> cjwatson: well, if I got this upstreamed to Debian in the kexec-tools side (with e.g. the makedumpfile package dep), it seems like it could be dropped from grub2
<cjwatson> slangasek: Yep, sounds likely
<ev> bdmurray, pitti: http://people.canonical.com/~evand/tmp/024acb70-836a-11e2-9a69-e4115b0f8a4a.crash
<mterry> bdmurray, I can't reproduce that update-manager R->S bug
<mterry> bdmurray, I should be running "update-manager -c -d" ?
<bdmurray> mterry: yes, or update-manager -d
<mterry> bdmurray, (yah, -c doesn't seem relevant anymore)
<mterry> bdmurray, I do that and I get prompted to upgrade
<mterry> bdmurray, (in R)
<mterry> bdmurray, will try 12.10 next, which was OP's problem
<bdmurray> mterry: i was able to recreate it from R to S
<mterry> bdmurray, that's why I've come to you  :)  what magic is this?
<bdmurray> mterry: well, I was going to try again but update-manager tells me I have to reboot ;-)
<ogra_> cjwatson, ubuntu-touch-coreapps-drivers-daily.list.chroot
<ogra_> argh
<ogra_> cjwatson, http://ppa.launchpad.net/ubuntu-touch-coreapps-drivers/daily/ubuntu
<cjwatson> ogra_: that doesn't contain any of the packages being complained about in the log
<ogra_> yeah
<cjwatson> so, where's camera-app meant to come from?
<bdmurray> mterry: after rebooting I see the upgrade message. Does your system need to be up to date before the message appears?
<mterry> bdmurray, yes
<bdmurray> ah, that must be a new feature.  thanks for looking into it
<ogra_> cjwatson, just FYI http://ppa.launchpad.net/ubuntu-unity/daily-build-next/ubuntu/dists/saucy/main/binary-armhf/Packages
<ogra_> (not really any content in there)
<cjwatson> ogra_: perhaps somebody forgot to copy with binaries
<ogra_> cjwatson, right
<cjwatson> it might be possible to re-copy - I forget
<ogra_> yeah, i'll talk to didrocks
<ogra_> oh, seems i can even do that myself
<didrocks> ogra_: cjwatson: IIRC, I copied this morning this arch: all
<ogra_> didrocks, well, i want to build images from it :)
<didrocks> binary only
<ogra_> so i need a little bit more than a placeholder
<ogra_> i.e. all armhf
<didrocks> ogra_: hum, sergiusens asked me to only copy one package "whatever" :)
<ogra_> yeah
<ogra_> i can do it myself apparently
<didrocks> ogra_: yeah, you should be in the team :)
<ogra_> just want to know if i could break any of your automation doing it
<didrocks> ogra_: no no, that's fine
<ogra_> k
<didrocks> ogra_: take libhybris maybe?
<ogra_> i want them all ... :)
<ogra_> (well, all armhf)
<didrocks> ogra_: hum? it wasn't what was told to me
<didrocks> ogra_: ok, copy everything, it will be overriden when we activate it
<ogra_> thats fine
<ogra_> i just want to make sure the image building in saucy workss ... and for that i need the packages indeed :)
<ogra_> no worries
<didrocks> good luck! ;)
#ubuntu-devel 2013-05-03
<hallyn> does 'addgroup --system' mean that no nis/yp group will be created?
<rbasak> hallyn: I was under the impression that adduser/group are completely incapable of doing anything with nis/yp. Unless I'm missing something big.
<hallyn> oh, yeah, sorry, too early in the morning, i wasn't thinking right
<psusi> did we ever reach a decision on the changes to the release cadence?
<rbasak> psusi: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2013-March/001566.html
<qengho> jasoncwarner: do you know if the webkit plenary will be broadcast somehow?
<pitti> Good morning
<hallyn> I'm trying to fix lp:ubuntu/lxc, starting with lp:ubuntu/raring/lxc.  I could bzr import-dsc ../lxc_0.9.0~alpha3-0ubuntu2.dsc just fine, but (a) I can't push the result (read-only transport), and I get a backtrace when I try to import-dsc ../lxc_0.9.0~alpha3-0ubuntu3.dsc
<wgrant> hallyn: What's broken about it?
<wgrant> (ie. what are you trying to fix)
<hallyn> wgrant: the saucy tree wont' pull at all, the raring tree is out of date
<hallyn> When i try to push to raring's version, I get http://paste.ubuntu.com/5629811/
<wgrant> hallyn: raring's release pocket is frozen
<wgrant> You might mean -updates or -security
<hallyn> I don't, I'm trying ot make it uptodate wrt the archive
<hallyn> When I try to import-dsc the current upstream raring version, I get http://paste.ubuntu.com/5629814/
<hallyn> That presumably being the bigger problem
<hallyn> If that were fixed I could ignore raring being out of data and at least push something to saucy
<hallyn> So let's ignore the push failure
<dobey> http://package-import.ubuntu.com/status/lxc.html#2012-10-30%2020:11:56.734181
<wgrant> hallyn: That error sounds like it's already imported.
<hallyn> wgrant: yeah, it does (but it isn't).  weird.
<hallyn> dobey: that is from 2012 though?  it seems to be past that, as bzr was at a version from 2013
<dobey> hallyn: weird. maybe someone previously did a manual import, and it broke things worse? seems like fixing that issue would be the place to start though
<dobey> i'm not even sure who to bug about UDD issues any more, though :(
<hallyn> ooooh. wait
<hallyn> wgrant: haha, yeah, that *was* already imported, wrong dsc
 * hallyn slap
<hallyn> hm, so the right .dsc does apply.  now when i try to push to saucy's tree, I get http://paste.ubuntu.com/5629858/
<hallyn> just a dup of bug 888615 perhaps
<ubottu> bug 888615 in Bazaar "UDD branch freshness checker breaks on incomplete history" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/888615
<hallyn> ah, bzr -Olaunchpad.packaging_verbosity=off push ubuntu:lxc worked
<hallyn> phew, now i can get back to figuring out why aufs breaks my builds /me off
<wgrant> hallyn: package-import has only been switched back on for a couple of hours, and it only just fixed saucy's branch up
<wgrant> There's still 20000 branches to go
<wgrant> You just caught it at a bad time
<hallyn> wgrant: oh, ok.  (technically psivaa/utah caught it at a bad time then :)
<psivaa> hallyn: ack :), do you want me to wait before running it again?
<hallyn> psivaa: no, i manually pushed it, so it should now pull fine
<psivaa> hallyn: ok, running it
<Laney> cjwatson: MoM probably shouldn't mail the Debian maintainer for no-change rebuilds
<Laney> (agda)
<ScottK> ev: e.u.c is having an error when trying to load reports for kdepim-runtime.  Would you please have a look and see if there and crash reports that occur with 4:4.10.2 or higher?
<ev> ScottK: on it
<ScottK> ev: Thanks.
<ScottK> apachelogger: ^^^ new backtrace (hopefully) on the way.
<ev> ScottK: 4:4.10.2-0ubuntu1~ubuntu12.04~ppa2	would that version suffice?
<apachelogger> ev: yeah
<ev> ScottK, apachelogger: something is going wrong here and it's not showing a Stacktrace for those crashes, despite having successfully retraced them. Digging.
<ScottK> ev: Is there an easy way for me to turn regular apport reports back on?  The particular crash we're after, I'm having regularly.  Maybe that would go better.
<ev> ScottK: yes, add "Crash" to problem_types in /etc/apport/crashdb.conf
<ScottK> Thanks.
<pmcgowan> seb128, on my raring Super-D is hiding all windows, in addition to tl-super-d, any idea why?
<seb128> pmcgowan, does "gsettings list-recursively  | grep '<Control>d'" return anything?
<pmcgowan> seb128, no
<pmcgowan> seb128, oh Super D does
<pmcgowan> seb128, org.gnome.desktop.wm.keybindings show-desktop ['<Primary><Super>d']
<pmcgowan> how do I change that?
<desrt> pmcgowan: in the keyboard shortcuts panel
<pmcgowan> seb128, well that says ctl-super-d but the above is just super d
<pmcgowan> can t fix it there for some reason
<desrt> 'primary' is an alias for 'super'
<desrt> erm.
<desrt> i mean for 'ctrl'
<pmcgowan> ah
<seb128> pmcgowan, not sure, seems like a compiz configuration thing...
<highvoltage> dconf write/ org.gnome.desktop.wm.keybindings/show-desktop '<Primary><Super>d'
<desrt> and if you have a mac then it means 'command key'
<highvoltage> oops,
<highvoltage> dconf write /org.gnome.desktop.wm.keybindings/show-desktop '<Primary><Super>d'
<seb128> it's already the value he has set
<pmcgowan> right
<desrt> i wonder if compiz takes 'primary' i mean 'super' or ignores it
<pmcgowan> other systems seem ok
<desrt> that would mean that <primary><super>d could be interpreted the same as just '<super>d'
<pmcgowan> something unique on my system
<pmcgowan> I have super-d mapped to a lens but it gets eaten before the dash gets it
<seb128> pmcgowan, my guess is that it's something in your compiz config
<sladen> pmcgowan: wasn't that bound to the canonical LDAP lens?
<pmcgowan> sladen, right
<seb128> pmcgowan, what I would do is install ccsm (if you don't have it), run it, go to advanced search, check the 3 boxes on the left and search for <Super>d
<pmcgowan> seb128, it has show desktop and minim all windows set to ctrl-super-d, I disabled both and it still happens
<seb128> hum
<seb128> didrocks, ^ do you have any idea?
<sergiusens> http://phablet.ubuntu.com/gitweb?p=CyanogenMod/android_bionic.git;a=summary
<didrocks> desrt: compiz is supposed to take primary as control
<sergiusens> infinity: ^^
<didrocks> it's an ubuntu distro patch
<xnox> sergiusens: thanks.
<ogra_> infinity, http://phablet.ubuntu.com/gitweb?p=CyanogenMod/android_bionic.git;a=summary
<didrocks> pmcgowan: are you close to the main plenary room?
<ogra_> heh
<didrocks> pmcgowan: I can have a look in 10/15 minutes
<pmcgowan> didrocks, I will stop by later
<didrocks> sure, just poke me whenever you want :)
<nuclearbob> xnox: ping?
<xnox> nuclearbob: heya
<nuclearbob> xnox: I see you have an old work item to investigate the status of porting libvirt to python3.  Do you have any interesting information to share on that?
<nuclearbob> xnox: if you're in a room somewhere I can come there
<xnox> nuclearbob: well I am in the foundations room (last one on the right, down the corridor which is next to plenaries)
<xnox> nuclearbob: it's hard.
<xnox> nuclearbob: they autogenerate python bindings from C and that essentially needs CPython porting from 2 to 3, which I never done.
<xnox> nuclearbob: i guess I can poke people about it.
<infinity> ogra_: Thanks.
<Riddell> xnox: at a UDS?
<slangasek> Riddell: canonical engineering sprint
<xnox> pitti: supported_versions: WARNING: Unknown Ubuntu release: 13.10 when setting up postgresql common.
<xnox> something familiar?
#ubuntu-devel 2013-05-04
<hyperair> what's the udisks2 version of "udisks detach /dev/sdX"?
<phenom> Guys, any chance of someone looking in to fixing firestarter to allow PTP VPN connections? It at present will NOT allow them with any firestarter config. Only way to enable it is to disable firestarter completely.
<phenom> PTP = PPTP rather
<maxb> phenom: I think that's the kind of question it would be best to bring up with firestarter's upstream developers.
#ubuntu-devel 2013-05-05
<jono> hey
<jono> is anyone running saucy right now? is it broadly working?
<cjwatson> jono: wfm
<jono> thanks cjwatson
<cjwatson> jono: when I upgraded on Monday or so I had to logout/login before I could control networking again; I *think* pitti fixed that but not sure
<jono> thanks, cjwatson, I think I will get it installed here
<cjwatson> not in a departure lounge then?
<cjwatson> oh yeah, you're local
<cjwatson> duh
<cjwatson> I swear I get stupider on the wrong side of the pond
<jono> cjwatson, heh, yep, I am sat in a coffee shop
<jono> have a reasonably free weekend until the family return tomorrow night
<jono> so I am currently using this as an opportunity to learn about QML some more
<jono> and likely upgrade to Saucy
<cjwatson> looks like openssh does still need some work to handle logind correctly
<cjwatson> not that that has any effect on most saucy users
<cjwatson> maybe attempting to fix that should be my plane project
<hulu> where the ubuntu livecd's casper create default user
<hulu> who can help me
<cyphermox> hulu: what do you want to know
<hulu> cyphermox: i want to change the home directory of the default user of livecd
<hulu> cyphermox: can you help me?
<cyphermox> well, the home directory should match the user name used
<cyphermox> if that's not what you want then you probably want to modify scripts/casper-bottom/25adduser to some degree.
<cyphermox> I'm not sure where the username itself is defined
<hulu> cyphermox: i want to change the ubuntu's .bashrc
<cyphermox> ok
<cyphermox> I'd probably just add a script to modify the file
<cyphermox> somewhere after 25adduser
<cyphermox> hulu: in any case, you can look at http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/saucy/casper/saucy/view/head for how all this is setup -- the scripts in the scripts directory are executed to create the user and set things up
<cyphermox> the user is defined in casper.conf in the root directory
<hulu> cyphermox: i want to change the /etc/skel,but the livecd don't create default user with /etc/skel
<cyphermox> hmm, I don't know
<cyphermox> I would have thought it come from /etc/skel, yes.
<cyphermox> perhaps there is another script in casper that does that
<hulu> cyphermox: i can't find the right place
<cyphermox> hulu: I don't know how to help you more, I don't know how that file gets written if it's not via skel.
<hulu> cyphermox: thx
<cyphermox> hulu: that said, like I wrote above, I'd possibly just write a new script in the script folder that edits .bashrc via sed or something
<cyphermox> or just blindly append to it
<hulu> cyphermox: the livecd create default user with out /etc/skel
<cyphermox> I'm not sure what you want to do with .bashrc, but it's possibly the wrong method too
<hulu> cyphermox: i change the .bashrc,and place the changed file in /etc/skel,but the livecd create the default user without /etc/skel
<cyphermox> sure
<cyphermox> but you can overwrite the file in the user's home directory after it's written
<hulu> cyphermox: what's you means?
<cyphermox> well, somewhere after the user is created, you can write another .bashrc in /home/$USERNAME  to do what you want, no?
<hulu> cyphermox: i want to change the .bashrc before user create
<cyphermox> hmm okay
<cyphermox> sorry, I don't know
<cyphermox> I'm going to have to logoff now, need to catch a plane
<hulu> bye
<infinity> LoganCloud: Could you please refrain from doing forced sync over packages that need merging?
<scarecrow_> Where can I find more information about ubuntu touch, TV and phone?
<sladen> congratulations on the release!
<Riddell> is merges.ubuntu.com working for saucy?
<ScottK> Riddell: yes.
<dakotawulfy> hi
<infinity> Hrm, why am I completely unshocked that a package called "mutextrace" hung several buildds?
<ion> :-D
<penguin42> haha
<weasel> heya.
<weasel> is there some kind of lucid-backports repository that would have a reasonably recent debhelper I could use for building backports?
<tumbleweed> there is lucid-backports, but Ubuntu backports policy would make backporting something like debhelper require a crazy amount of testing. I see it has been done in the past, though. ScottK?
<rbasak> Backporting debhelper would certainly make backporting easier. Most of the time I've backported something (generally not to any official repo though) the only task was to wind back compat.
<elmo> weasel: I have a 8.0.0ubuntu2~0.IS.10.04 for lucid, if that's any help, ISTR backporting anything newer to lucid got hard
<rbasak> And debhelper is good at retaining backwards compatibility
<maxb> weasel: The key questions really are 1) backporting what? 2) how new a debhelper do you need? and 3) backporting for publication where?
<weasel> elmo: that's about the same level that squeeze has.  that should suffice
<maxb> It's often convenient to backport a version of debhelper into backport PPAs, which requires varying degrees of care depending on what packages it is going to be used fo
<elmo> weasel: k, one sec, I'll dump it on people.canonical.com
<maxb> *for
<weasel> maxb: building my tor binaries for deb.tpo.  I just modernized the packaging of the source package to use a new style dh debian/rules, and that requires reasonably recent debhelper.
<maxb> tpo?
<weasel> torproject.org
<Laney> I reckon we could/should work out a way of backporting debhelper.
<maxb> I have a lucid backport of 8.1.2 here: https://launchpad.net/~mercurial-ppa/+archive/builddeps/+packages
<maxb> Let me review the diff and remind myself what I had to change
<Laney> testing all of the rdeps would be a joke, but it's hardly likely to be necessary given what it is
<weasel> so everybody seems to make their own?
<Laney> apparently so
<rbasak> How about a new debhelper9 binary package? THen you'd only have to tweak Build-Depends for a backport. It won't matter if it conflicts with debhelper, right?
<weasel> seems an awful waste.  <cue sweeney todd>
<elmo> weasel: http://people.canonical.com/~james/debhelper/
<Laney> let me just mail the backporters and see if we can do it properly
<weasel> thanks.  I guess I can put that in a repo somewhere and teach schroot to add that to sources.list
<maxb> https://code.launchpad.net/~bzr/ubuntu/lucid/debhelper/builddeps-ppa <-- looks like 8.1.2 just built fine with no changes on lucid
<weasel> elmo: while I have you around, did you see my question on #d-a?
<maxb> I think everyone tends to make their own because it's relatively easy to validate it's fine for any given single backporting project, but amazingly hard to have one true backport
<maxb> At least you're only going back as far as lucid
<maxb> Backporting debhelper 7.3 to hardy was "interesting" :-)
<weasel> I dropped hardy support not too long ago :)
<weasel> Date:   Tue Apr 9 14:17:18 2013 +0000
<weasel>     We no longer build hardy
<Laney> <20130505202234.GH3149@iota>
<maxb> Yes, really no point these days. It was nearly two years ago when I made that backport
<ScottK> tumbleweed: We backported debhelper 7 to hardy-backports.  Debhelper is a bit different since it's only used at build time.  Backports of it are relatively safe since anything you're backporting had to build with the newer debhelper in the series you're backporting from.
<tumbleweed> mind you, we'd need to solve backports build-depending on backports, first
<Laney> for >= natty, yes
<tumbleweed> oh, was that not an issue for lucid? np then
<ScottK> Yep
<Marlinc> Any mailing list moderators online?
<Marlinc> Never mind it has been accepted already
#ubuntu-devel 2014-04-28
<xnox> rhl: get it into debian, that's easiest to do via a team (e.g. java team, python team, etc)
<xnox> rhl: and it would get automatically synced into ubuntu.
<xnox> rhl: what's the software / package name?
<rhl> its a library for "applied and computational topology" and i'm submitting it to fedora with the name 'ctlib' since 'ctl' is taken
<rhl> ctl.appliedtopology.org will be the website, and git.appliedtopology.org holds the source
<rhl> ctl.appliedtopology.org/r/ has the release
<rhl> and git.appliedtopology.org has another repo there called 'package_managers' which holds my fedora spec and tentative OS/X spec
<rhl> my friend will give me his ubuntu thing tommorow
<rhl> xnox: interested in packaging for me?
<xnox> rhl: i'm not, but Debian Science Team and/or Debian Med Team might be interested.
<infinity> xnox: Erm, why did you do that kmod upload?
<infinity> xnox: I dropped that delta intentionally.
<infinity> xnox: Was there a bug caused by that that you didn't reference?
<infinity> xnox: Oh, I see.  So, that should be guarded by an if, not removed entirely, IMO.
<Logan_> infinity: having a nice conversation? ;P
<infinity> Logan_: The best ones are with myself.
<TheMuso> I'd agree with that. :)
<TheMuso> s/I'd/I/
<Unit193> pitti: Not sure it's of interest, but got plymouth with systemd.  Shamelessly stolen from OpenSUSE.
<pitti> shadeslayer: interesting; I don't have a modem so can't easily reproduce; mind filing as a bug with tag "systemd-boot"?
<pitti> Unit193: oh! absolutely
<pitti> Good morning
<Unit193> Howdy.
<Unit193> pitti: modemmanager has caused some issue for me until I purged it, only has an upstart job.
<pitti> Unit193: right, see shadeslayer's ping
<Unit193> I got him in another channel, yeah.
<pitti> shadeslayer | [20:46:44] pitti: abr 27 20:44:45 solembum dbus-daemon[686]: dbus[686]: [system] Activation via systemd failed for unit 'dbus-org.freedesktop.ModemManager1.service': Unit dbus-org.freedesktop.ModemMan
<pitti> infinity: FYI, I think http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~auto-package-testing-dev/auto-package-testing/trunk/revision/347 is "the" fix
<alkisg> I want to file a bug report to make ibus recommented by ubuntu-desktop, not depended on it. Is there any reason not to? It does cause keyboard layout problems and it's not required by upstream gnome, e.g. in fedora it can be removed with no downsides at all...
<rww> alkisg: it's only a recommend already...
<alkisg> rww: I can't purge it without removing ubuntu-desktop, let me check the dependency chain...
<alkisg> unity-control-center
<alkisg> It both depends and recommends ibus
<alkisg> And ubuntu-desktop depends on unity-control-center
<rww> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity-control-center/+bug/1294482
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1294482 in unity-control-center (Ubuntu) "ibus should be recommends only and not in depends" [Low,Triaged]
<alkisg> Thank you rww :)
<alkisg> I guess I'll have to make a dummy package in a ppa in order to bypass it, since I don't see it getting SRU'ed...
<alkisg> Or at least, fix im-config so that it doesn't launch ibus by default like im-switch did in 12.04
<alkisg> I.e. in 12.04 ibus wasn't running, in 14.04 it is, without reason
<Unit193> alkisg: If the ubuntu-desktop metapackage is like the lubuntu and xubuntu ones, there's no reason you shouldn't just let it go.
<dholbach> good morning
<alkisg> Unit193: these packages get removed when purging ibus: ubuntu-desktop* unity-control-center* unity-control-center-signon* webaccounts-extension-common* xul-ext-webaccounts*
<alkisg> ...I'd prefer it if I didn't have to check which of those are needed by schools and which aren't...
<alkisg> Good morning
 * alkisg will spend another day trying to pinpoint what part of ubuntu (probably unity-settings-daemon) breaks keyboard layout switching, while it works fine in fedora 20, and would welcome any help he could get...
<alkisg> The first part towards fixing keyboard layouts, is for xkb options like "grp:alt_shift_toggle" to be respected, fedora respects while ubuntu discards it
<darkxst> alkisg, gnome/unity-settings-daemon depend on ibus
<alkisg> darkxst: they shouldn't, upstream gnome doesn't depend on it
<alkisg> It recommends it, but doesn't depend on it, e.g. `yum erase ibus` on fedora works fine
<alkisg> But OK I can `chmod -x ibus-daemon`, so let's say that part was solved, the keyboard layout issue in Ubuntu is more serious...
<alkisg> Unity-settings-daemon somehow manages to omit the xkb layout options in Ubuntu, while gnome-settings-daemon in Fedora respects them and everything works fine there
<darkxst> alkisg, fedora is *not* upstream
<alkisg> I know, I talked with upstream gnome about it
<darkxst> alkisg, the ibus daemon would be optional, but the libraries are not
<alkisg> Right
<alkisg> It can depend on libibus, no problem there
<alkisg> Let's say the ibus issue is solved, we can track it in bug #1294482. The next and more serious problem is the xkb options...
<ubottu> bug 1294482 in unity-control-center (Ubuntu) "ibus should be recommends only and not in depends" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1294482
<alkisg> When running full screen applications like tuxpaint, which grab keyboard input, we can't switch languages
<alkisg> So we can't type greek in tuxpaint, so apps like those are now useless in 14.04. They do work fine in other distributions.
<alkisg> The problem is that unity-settings-daemon doesn't get the layout switch shortcut because of the keyboard grab. The solution is the grp:alt_shift_toggle xkb option, which was the default until 14.04
<alkisg> Now, some part of unity-settings-daemon blocks the use of xkb options... that's what I'm trying to pinpoint
<alkisg> I.e. if I launch `xinit` and run `setxkbmap -query`, I get: "options:    grp:alt_shift_toggle,grp_led:scroll",
<alkisg> but if I log in to Unity, I get: "options:    grp_led:scroll". And the problem is that something, probably unity-settings-daemon, strips "grp:alt_shift_toggle"
<alkisg> Even if I use setxkbmap to set it again, unity-settings-daemon removes it a few seconds later when I switch layouts
<darkxst> alkisg, oh I see, I am not familar with that code, speak with attente]
<alkisg> Thank you darkxst, will do
<ekarlso-> doesn't ubuntu include firmware in kernel ?
<ekarlso-> I installed kernel 3.14.1 from kernel-mainline and bnx2 isn't working due to firmware missing :(
<infinity> ekarlso-: linux-firmware
<ekarlso-> infinity: well I see the firmware is in /lib/firmware/3.14.x but the module doesn't seem to find it ?
<ekarlso-> any clues ?
<pitti> doko_: the libpython3.4-testsuite install failure in utopic-propsed that the autopkgtest shows reproduces in a simple utopic-proposed schroot, so that looks real
<doko> pitti, known, needs a sync
<pitti> doko: ah, splendid
<xnox> infinity: well update-initramfs was exploading on my machine, and in jenkins making all ADT runs not happy at all.
<xnox> infinity: if you do want that hunk in, it needs a guard indeed.
<doko> xnox, boost1.55 has the gccxml recommendation again. intended?
<xnox> doko: no, fixed in debian svn will refix in ubuntu as well. infinity pinged me about it as well by now =)
<doko> apw, linux-exynos5 wants you to write some shiny MIRs ... http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/component-mismatches.svg
<xnox> doko: is it linux-exynos5 or actual d-i components that need fixing though?
<cjwatson> Probably linux-exynos5
<cjwatson> This sort of thing is usually missing Provides
<cjwatson> But I walked apw through the process of hunting those down at the core sprint so hopefully he is now an expert O:-)
<doko> ahh, ok
<apw> cjwatson, erm, oh you did :)
<apw> hateful thing
<cjwatson> Let me know if you need help
<xnox> apw: "i'm an expert, i can do anything." http://youtu.be/BKorP55Aqvg
<apw> cjwatson, will do
 * doko stops building ruby-tcltk, lets us demote tcltk 8.5
<darkxst> 'seeded-in-ubuntu' is pretty hosed right now ;(
<ogra_> yay, germinate doesnt have any recommends anymore in touch ... finally
<ogra_> xnox, thanks so much for the help earlier
<darkxst> on my trusty laptop it only shows 'supports' results
<darkxst> and same on utopic
<xnox> ogra_: cool, i'll do the same commit to trusty seed then!
<ogra_> yeah
<Laney> darkxst: I guess because there aren't U images yet
<darkxst> Laney, its doing on trusty as well though?
<darkxst> or is it just not that smart ;)
<Laney> don't think so
<cjwatson> It always uses the latest series, doesn't it?
<cjwatson> I mean, it doesn't take a series option
<cjwatson> Anyway, there should hopefully be images today
<darkxst> cjohnston, ok
<darkxst> cjwatson even
<Laney> Just checked the code, that's what it seems to do
 * darkxst has 3 weeks without internet and comes back to series switchover chaos! yay!
<Laney> Not sure I'd classify that problem under 'chaos' personally
<pitti> Laney: well, ask britney :)
<pitti> the poor thing is running for hours, snakefruit is full of sweat
<Laney> I mean the problem that seeded-in-ubuntu isn't accurate atm
<pitti> ah
<darkxst> well getting internet was 'chaos' atleast
<darkxst> and I was away the last 10 days just to add too that
<cjwatson> pitti: It was having trouble yesterday, but we applied some blocks to fix that; it seems happy enough at the moment
<cjwatson> well, s/fix/work around/, whatever
<pitti> cjwatson: oh, great (it was really meant to be a joke -- with the autosync it's a tough calculation)
 * darkxst nearly pee'd on a snake while I was camping, is that what makes snakefruit?
<cjwatson> Thanks for that
<cjwatson> doko: If you happen to be looking at MIRish stuff, looks like the git -> source-highlight build-dep will need some fairly quick attention - uninstallable git on !i386 in -proposed has some fallout
<doko> cjwatson, ok
<doko> jamespage, maven time again!
<doko> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/component-mismatches-proposed.svg
 * jamespage jumps for joy
<xnox> \o\ \o/ /o/
<davmor2> doko: congratulations on the scrolliest page I've seen in a while :)
<pitti> graph theory at its best!
<geser> one could try it adding the svgpan.js library to it makes it easier to use (http://www.cyberz.org/blog/2009/12/08/svgpan-a-javascript-svg-panzoomdrag-library/)
<mdeslaur> xnox: are you still hitting bug 1271591? it's driving me insane :P
<ubottu> bug 1271591 in gnome-keyring (Ubuntu Trusty) "upstart job race prevents gnome-keyring from being ssh agent" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1271591
<xnox> mdeslaur: yes, it's driving me insane as well. Let me assign it to myself and get that done soon.
<mdeslaur> cool
 * mdeslaur hugs xnox
<seb128> xnox, mdeslaur: thanks
<seb128> $drink offer to whoever fixes it
<cjwatson> plars: Does anything special need to be set up to make the image testing trigger to cdimage (the pending->current thing) work for utopic?
<cjwatson> Aside from telling cdimage that it should expect that trigger for utopic
<ogra_> cjwatson, given atht pending->current copying happens by me doing it with mark-current manually i dount that
<ogra_> *doubt
<cjwatson> ogra_: Not for Ubuntu Desktop it doesn't.
<cjwatson> Or server.
<ogra_> oh, sorry
<ogra_> to much touch in my brain :)
<cjwatson> ogra_: Also, I just noticed that cdimage was auto-copying for touch on i386, which wasn't totally helpful
<cjwatson> I've fixed that for future builds
<ogra_> auto-copying ? to current ?
<cjwatson> Yup
<ogra_> ouch
<ogra_> i wonder why we never noticed
<cjwatson> ogra_: Anyway, I think you're all set up for utopic touch builds whenever you're ready
<ogra_> whee !
<ogra_> let me try one then :)
<ogra_> running
<pitti> ogra_: have your helmet on?
<ogra_> always :)
 * pitti ^5s ogra
<ogra_> hard hat :)
<xnox> cjwatson: ogra_: aren't i386 builds automatically copied, because there is no testing of those yet and we just need the latest all the time at the moment?
<cjwatson> I think you're ascribing intent that doesn't exist
<ogra_> xnox, no idea why they were atomatically copied, they definitely shouldnt go out of sync with the rest of the world
<cjwatson> They're automatically copied because nobody ever thought to add i386 to the relevant line in production/current-triggers
<ogra_> right
<xnox> cjwatson: hm, ok.
<ogra_> the intend is surely definitely to not have them do that
<ogra_> -surely
<cjwatson> And I happened to notice while setting up utopic
<apw> cjwatson, after a long delay, i have been through all of the udebs Provide: names referenced by the listed missmatches (for linux-exynos5) and they seem to all be there :/  and it also has a matching package-list to master, so i would expect it to be right
<ogra_> why do we have an exynox5 flavour ? i thought that was armmp/generic capable
<cjwatson> Huh, OK, I'll try to have a look later today
<apw> ogra_, because they ahve a huge heap of patches and only came along very close to release
<ogra_> ah, sad
<apw> ogra_, we may be able to get rid of it in U if we are lucky
<ogra_> ++
<apw> cjwatson, i downloaded the built .udebs and they looked right too, but hmmm
<cjwatson> You usually investigate this by looking through the Packages file
<cjwatson> No need to download the udebs then, since all their metadata is already in Packages
<apw> oh heh, that would ahve been more sensible
 * apw is confused how this is broken in utopic and wasn't in trusty given we have the same version
<apw> or did someone add images for this in U
<cjwatson> It was broken in trusty
<cjwatson> We just ignored those component mismatches
<apw> well that is something at lease
<xnox> it's a universe kernel that provides packages, that can be pulled in by d-i components from main. Is it just that "exynos5" sorts ahead of "generic" and hence exynos5 (universe) are preferred instead of generic (main) modules on armhf?
<psusi> what is the current status of wubi?  was it only removed from the installation medium or totally unsupported now?
<xnox> psusi: it has never been removed from installation medium.
<xnox> psusi: it provides the ui popup "this is ubuntu image, click reboot now to experience the matrix." on windows machines
<plars> cjwatson: should already be set up, this ran this morning on desktop: mark-current -p ubuntu -s utopic -t desktop -a amd64 20140428.1: success
<plars> and it doesn't look like we've had a server run yet
<psusi> xnox: then that's not wubi ;)
<plars> but when we do, it's set to trigger after a good run of the default job
<mdeslaur> is there a special tag for precise->trusty upgrade bugs?
<mdeslaur> (ie: bug 1313712)
<plars> same as it was last cycle... if you'd like, we can revisit where that trigger should happen
<xnox> psusi: if you move the wubi.exe binary from the cd to desktop, and launch it - it offers to do wubi installation.
<ubottu> bug 1313712 in libselinux (Ubuntu) "Trusty's libselinux1 is causes issues with Precise's upstart during dist-upgrade" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1313712
<plars> but it's at least in the same state as trusty
<psusi> oh that's weird
<psusi> hrm... ok, then there seems to be some confustion resulting from the discussion last year on -devel about removing it
<psusi> at least amoung askubuntu, the belief is that wubi is no longer supported, so don't use it
<psusi> it sounds like you are saying that is not the case
<xnox> mdeslaur: upstart in precise did not have support for stateful re-execution and it did not have libselinux enabled, thus to get upstart linked against libselinux one needs to boot trusty's upstart&selinux.....
<cjwatson> plars: OK, cool
<xnox> mdeslaur: that bug sounds incomplete, or it's a saucy->trusty upgrade bug?
<cjwatson> plars: No revisiting needed, just checking
<mdeslaur> xnox: I don't know, I didn't look at it, I just wanted to make sure I tagged it properly
<cjwatson> plars: Should get a server run in a bit
<ogra_> cjwatson, the cdimage part of touch passed successfully ...
<plars> good
 * ogra_ waits for system-image now 
<ogra_> so many moving parts nowadays :(
<plars> looks like we should see a touch image soon I guess
<ogra_> 20min or so
<plars> ogra_++ :)
<plars> ogra_: we made sure things were in place before the weekend just in case so we should be all set, but I'll keep an eye out for it
<ogra_> plars, right, same goes for system-image importing ... but its all untested
<apw> cjwatson, oh i might know what this is, so don't start without checking
<seb128> xnox, do you plan to SRU that gnome-keyring fix as well? ;-)
<xnox> seb128: yes, once utopic people try it out =)
<Laney> do you really mean 'starting xsession-init'?
<seb128> xnox, k
<Laney> that sounds quite broad
<xnox> seb128: you are on utopic?
<seb128> xnox, no, and I don't think I plan to update before LTS .1
<seb128> the LTS still needs some work/polish
<xnox> Laney: yes i did, see ssh-agent. gnome-keyring is like a pam module no? thus it's all in the environment already before even upstart starts....
<xnox> Laney: that task just queries the variables  and exports them to the upstart and the $world
<pitti> ogra_: oh, congrats! (1st phone image)
<ogra_> :D
<xnox> ogra_: ahead of desktop images et.al? =)
<ogra_> yeah
<ogra_> thanks to cjwatson's awesome preparation work
<cjwatson> xnox: The first desktop image came out a few hours ago
<cjwatson> I used it as the initial test
<cjwatson> ogra_: Do you want your cron job on?
<cjwatson> I've enabled the rest
<ogra_> cjwatson, yes please
<xnox> *darn* =))))
<cjwatson> ogra_: OK, done
<ogra_> thanks
<Laney> xnox: I see, well anyway at the bare minimum the gnome-keyring command is wrong
<Laney> itym gnome-keyring-daemon
<Laney> (-s)
<xnox> Laney: correct.
 * xnox ponders where/how it's working here.
<xnox> fixing
<Laney> merci
<xnox> Laney: hm, that's racy i now got keyring secrets, but no gnome-keyring gpg-agent/ssh-agent
<Laney> xnox: Hrm, where does that come from?
<bdmurray> cjwatson: could you have a look at bug 1312928?
<ubottu> bug 1312928 in openssh (Ubuntu) "SSH-Agent not working in KDE/X-Session if user's login shell is a tcsh" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1312928
<Logan_> xnox: is this delta still needed? https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/guayadeque/0.3.5~ds0-4ubuntu1
<Logan_> I don't really understand what you wrote in the changelog :P
<Logan_> oh, are you saying that integration with the sound indicator is already built in, so we don't need its own indicator?
<cjwatson> bdmurray: ok
<cjwatson> bdmurray: committed to Debian; will queue up when I'm next doing SRU prep (probably later this week)
<bdmurray> cjwatson: okay, thanks
<smoser> anyone able to tell me what Luser error i'm making
<smoser>  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/curtin/+bug/1313550
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1313550 in maas (Ubuntu) "ping does not work as a normal user on trusty tarball cloud images." [High,Confirmed]
<smoser> i *thought* it was just forgetting/missing '--xattrs' to tar
<cjwatson> smoser: check out the changes I made in response to bug 1302192
<ubottu> bug 1302192 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Trusty) "capabilities not preserved on installation" [Critical,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1302192
<cjwatson> smoser: does curtin use busybox tar?
<xnox> Logan_: correct, just exporting mpi interface is enough. Test-build debian version, see if it still appears in sound menu and doesn't create a stand-alone indicator.
<smoser> it uses `which tar`, which in maas's case will be gnu tar.
<smoser> and in my example was gnu tar.
<smoser> am i just simply doing somethign wrong there? it doesn't look like '--xattr' works.
<cjwatson> ok, the changes I made didn't rely on any particular tar behaviour since busybox tar doesn't have xattrs support
<cjwatson> so you could just do likewise
<xnox> Logan_: also i thought libindicator was deprecated and not needed in ubuntu any more (i.e. we try to remove it from the archive)
<cjwatson> tar might need to be given an --xattrs-include which includes the security namespace
<xnox> Logan_: also, why are you looking at my merges? =)
<cjwatson> perhaps
<cjwatson> smoser: see also https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=771927
<ubottu> bugzilla.redhat.com bug 771927 in tar "RFE: tar should support file capabilities" [Medium,New]
<smoser> cjwatson, it seems '--xattrs-include=*' works.
 * cjwatson nods
<cjwatson> the overhead of doing getfattr | setfattr as I did in live-installer was negligible so I was happy enough with that
<cjwatson> but --xattrs-include='*' looks right
<smoser> cjwatson, is --xattrs a proper superset of --acls ?
<cjwatson> pass
<cjwatson> I *think* ACLs are implemented using Linux xattrs, but I hardly ever need to go anywhere near ACLs
<cjwatson> attr(5) mentions system.posix_acl_access
<cjwatson> It's probably not guaranteed
<Logan_> xnox: I'm just a curious person ;P
<pitti> I'm trying to untangle the uninstallability of qml bits in utopic-proposed
<pitti> does anyone know what's going on there?
<pitti> it makes chromium-browser, ubuntu-sdk, qtcreator etc. uninstallable, and blocks migration of systemd
<Laney> pitti: I think Mirv was looking at it
 * xnox ponders if it's related to blocked pending transitions at all.
<pitti> apt-get install qtdeclarative5-controls-plugin
<pitti> that works in utopic
<pitti> but in -proposed I get "qtdeclarative5-controls-plugin : Depends: qml-module-qtquick-controls but it is not going to be installed"
<Laney> There were some package renames inherited from Debian which we need to add transitionals for
<Laney> is what I understood
<pitti> the fun thing is that there's no such package
<pitti> not even a virtual one
<pitti> oh, perhaps that's already the root of the problem
<pitti> I was walking down the dependency chain
<xnox> pitti: i think you can ask for chromium-browser and qtcreator-plugin-ubuntu ADT tests to be waived, as long as they don't regress in "utopic" without "utopic-proposed"
<pitti> xnox: I ran them in utopic and they are fine
<xnox> pitti: same way we force past a few other tests like this.
<xnox> pitti: and http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/update_excuses.html#qtgraphicaleffects-opensource-src seems to be the culprit, no?
<xnox> qml-module-qtgraphicaleffects/i386 unsatisfiable Depends: qml-module-qtquick2
<pitti> xnox: right, that's the one I see as well
<pitti> Laney: would you consider setting a temporary ignore for chromium-browser and qtcreator-plugin-ubuntu failures?
<Laney> sec
<pitti> or do we want to block everything until this gets fixed?
<xnox> well, i wish for more sagari's to be added to buildds ;-)
<Laney> I know Mirv uploaded stuff for this through the ci train earlier
<cjwatson> xnox: infinity was going to work on that pretty soon I think
<xnox> cjwatson: \o/
<Laney> pitti: I'd like to wait until the new qtdeclarative-opensource-src shows up to see what the lay of the land is then, if you don't mind
<pitti> Laney: sure, that sounds fine
<pitti> I was mostly interested in figuring out the root cause, but seems it's underway
<pitti> thanks Mirv!
<Laney> it's mid migrating, should be along to a britney near you quite soon
<doko> pitti, please join -release on a regular basis for issues and questions about the autopkg tests
<bdmurray> mpt: Hi. If we use the same colors for failed as for by 12.04 standards what would we use for failed 12.04 retraces?
<shadeslayer> could someone point me to a discussion on changing the IO scheduler for Ubuntu to deadline?
<Laney> pitti: huzzah, the autopkgtests succeeded
<Mirv> pitti: you're welcome. some Qt modules were autosynced from Debian that depended on changes that needed manual syncing. it took some time because I was landing four accumulated patches as well at the same time and needed a full test run.
<zyga> https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/view/Trusty/view/AutoPkgTest/job/utopic-adt-plainbox/ARCH=i386,label=adt/lastBuild/console
<zyga> so why does the solver wants to remove the package being tested rather than install it?
<Mirv> there's more work to be done at least in qtmultimedia but it looked like qtdeclarative should be enough to unblock things from proposed, and other renames can be done at leisure
<zyga> http://ci.debian.net/#package/plainbox the same package works in unstable
<apw> cjwatson, ok, i have double checked both exynos5 and generic and cannot account for this missmatch; i have tried to cobble together a data set to debug against, but just could not get it to produce the same results so i am stymeed
<Riddell> bdmurray: ping
<bdmurray> Riddell: hi
<Riddell> bdmurray: could you join us in #kubuntu-devel for a minute?
<bdmurray> I guess
<Riddell> ev: how does a person get access to errors.ubuntu.com ?
<pitti> Laney: yay! "Valid candidate"
 * pitti hugs Mirv
<pitti> doko: ack
<Elv1313> ev: ping, Hello, I filled the error access form for the sflphone-kde package (I am the maintainer / main dev), the guys on #kubuntu-devel said I could ping you to have the request approved
<Elv1313> is there a magic way to convert the "raw" backtraces to add debug symbols?
<juliank> pitti: I cannot connect to www.piware.de, what's happening?
<juliank> Yay, it's back!
<dobey> pitti: around?
 * dobey guesses not after looking at the time
<ev> Elv1313: you should be all set
<ev> just added you
<Elv1313> thanks
<Elv1313> ev: "This problem failed to retrace. This is often caused by debug symbols no longer being available for the package version and library version dependencies installed at the time of the crash. Its instances represent one portion of a larger problem. No stacktrace will be available for this set." anything to do about this?
<ev> Elv1313: alas, there's not much we can do about those until we get ddebs in the librarian.
<Elv1313> ev: do you know any scripts that can take this backtrace and apply the symbols locally?
<Elv1313> is it possible to download the raw ".crash" for those crashes?
<zyga> I need help
<zyga> I need to cross compile a qt5 plugin
<zyga> is that doable now?
<Elv1313> yes, doable, but cross compiling ain't easy
<zyga> I'm all ears (or link eyes)
<zyga> I know how to cross compile stuff, just not how debian does it
<Elv1313> I was about to redirect you to google, but now, that's a relevant sub-question. I guess you can replace the CC/CXX env vars, but I never tried "real" cross compiling. If you want to compile a 32bit package on a 64bit system, this is trivial, take a look at thte "debbootstrap" command
<zyga> I want to build a bunch of qt5 code for armhf
<zyga> do I need a chroot or is this really going to work with just cross libs
<zyga> wookey: maybe you can help me out (just once I promise)
<Elv1313> never tried that one. I have one of these http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Quad-core-RK3188-MK809-III-Google-TV-Box-Android-2GB-RAM-8GB-ROM-1-8GHz-Max/907227860.html and it is more than fast enough to be used as build-bot
<apw> cjwatson, just trying to do an initramfs-tools update but it would necessitate a console-setup update which is vastly behind, it has been suggested you might have done the last and know why it is back
<doko> apw, xnox: could one of you have a look at the libguestfs dep-wait?
<apw> doko, can do
<infinity> pitti: TB meeting?  You're the chair. :P
<infinity> doko: Eww, a build depending on a kernel image?  That's vile.
<apw> infinity, yeah i know ... they are making an appliance image
<apw> i guess its trying to be debian-installer
<cjwatson> apw: oh it's just hard and has a track record of somewhat invasive rearrangements so it was too scary to update last cycle; hopefully I'll manage it earlyish this cycle
<ScottK> mterry: I took care of subscribing the relevant team to electric-fence bugs, but I'm not sure fixing the issues you bring up is worth deviating from Debian over?
<mterry> ScottK, I just commented.  I filed a bug for tracking and approved the MIR
<ScottK> mterry: Cool.  Thanks.
<jfi> tedg, Hello, the 'guide' parameter of app_indicator_set_label is supposed to work on trusty/unity? Is it correct that its goal is to do automaticaly some padding of the label to avoid change of the indicator area width? I hardly see how it can work as indicator does not appear to use a fixed font. Anyway to change the font family?
<tedg> jfi, No way to change the font, and sure it doesn't work perfectly. More for things like number where you can generally assume "100" would be the widest value.
<tedg> jfi, You can, if you want generate the strings to see what the widths are, but that's probably more work than you're interested in.
<jfi> tedg, well, my concern is that if I set the guide to 'WWWWWWWWWW' and put a label '0' it does not do any padding
<tedg> jfi, Hmm, it should. Perhaps that changed. Trevinho would you know?
<jfi> tedg, ok, if it 'should' work, I will try to find the bug in my code (but I doubt to be honest) and open a BR with a short sample
<tedg> jfi, I'm just not sure, we didn't touch the indicator side in Trusty, but the Unity side had a lot of work for HiDPI. They may have changed things.
<doko> ScottK, Riddell: please could you have a look at the qtruby and korundum ftbfs?
<ScottK> Sure.
<apw> doko, also looking at supermin (as a dep of libguestfs)
<wookey> zyga don't think I've ever cross-built QT5, so don;t know if it will work
<wookey> it's not on http://people.canonical.com/~cjwatson/cross/armhf/trusty
<wookey> the QT4 there looks like it did a good chunk of build before falling over due to trying to build native test but not having native fountconfig present.
<sithlord48> hello xnox : . i have a bug report question. if you install libboost-dev the following libboost-filesystem-dev and libboost-program-options-dev are not installed . i have not sure if this is a bug or not. should a report be made? i was told in #kubuntu-devel to ask you here
<infinity> wookey: qt5 fails due to not selecting a cross-compiler.
<infinity> wookey: http://people.canonical.com/~cjwatson/cross/armhf/trusty/qtbase-opensource-src_5.2.1+dfsg-1ubuntu13_armhf-20140410-0048
<infinity> wookey: Quite possibly just needs --host and --build thrown at configure or something equally simple.
<xnox> sithlord48: that's not a bug. typicallly you should depend on just the -dev packages that you need (e.g. boost-dev filesystem-dev etc)
<Trevinho> jfi: yeah, much code there changed... Do yo have a test-case handy?
<xnox> sithlord48: all of boost is not in main, just part of it.
<sithlord48> xnox : im installing libogre-dev and my ogre build requires those
<sithlord48> libogre-dev requires libboost-1.54-dev
<xnox> sithlord48: there is libboost-all-dev but that's _very_ large and has everything, it's in universe only (it has parallel, mpi, graph etc)
<xnox> sithlord48: ogre does not require everything from boost.
<sithlord48> xnox:  not ogre just the target im building.  this i why i was unsure if it was a pacakging bug or not. i can simply add them to my control file to fix it for me.
<xnox> sithlord48: yeah do that. Possibly libogre-dev should declare a few more dependencies by default. e.g. when compiling against libogre-dev one will probably need libboost1.54-dev, libboost-atomic1.54-dev, libboost-date-time1.54-dev, libboost-thread1.54-dev,
<xnox> sithlord48: libogre-dev already declares dependencies on boost & thread, not sure if the other two need adding. i'll check that.
<sithlord48> xnox:  it seams to pull most all of them. i only had to add the two i've mentioned other wise it wouldn't link the exe
#ubuntu-devel 2014-04-29
<mwhudson> baah
<mwhudson> my x220's sd card reader appears to not work in trusty :(
<pseudocode77> hello
<pitti> Good morning
<pitti> dobey: hey
<pitti> infinity: sorry, was travelling back from the sprint
<dholbach> good morning
<anirudha> I want to pack pre-compiled binary files in a .deb package. Can anyone tell me the minimum set of tools that are needed to achieve  this?
<infinity> pitti: I assume you'll be around to chair in two weeks? :)
<infinity> pitti: Also, since my magic powers don't yet work (and no point caring until the SSO stuff is done), can you retry binutils/i386?
<cjwatson> anirudha: Bare minimum for creating any -dev package is build-essential; but it's less effort to use debhelper as well, in which case you can just use dh_install(1) to put the files in place in the output .deb
<pitti> infinity: yes, hopefully; it's a ridiculously bad time for me, with the new TB we should maybe do a new poll for a new time
<cjwatson> anirudha: ("for creating any .deb package", I mean)
<infinity> pitti: Yeah, I noted the same thing at the end of the meeting.
<pitti> infinity: kicked binutils and a few others
<infinity> pitti: Not counting conferences and other travel, you're currently the only European on the TB, the rest are spread across 4 timezones in North America.
<infinity> pitti: Not sure what would be best for that, but we can probably sort something out.
<pitti> infinity: we can just do a new doodle?
<infinity> pitti: Sure, doodle away.
<infinity> pitti: Mostly, you'll probably find that it'll be scheduling your timezone against slangasek's meeting schedule, and the rest of us will be fairly flexible, I imagine.
<pitti> hmm, ubuntu desktop now pulls in a gazillion qml/qt5 packages
<anirudha> cjwatson: So do I get dh_install with the package debhelper?
<cjwatson> Yes
<anirudha> cjwatson: Do I need to install dh_make for creating the correct directory/file structure or debhelper is enough?
<cjwatson> No, you don't.  dh_make is just a helper for people unfamiliar with packaging
<cjwatson> But it's entirely possible (and often reasonable) to create the small number of files directly
<cjwatson> Of what dh_make -s creates, the only files you strictly need are debian/{changelog,control,copyright,rules}, though you should probably also keep debian/source/format, and if you use debhelper you should also keep debian/compat
<cjwatson> (If you don't use debhelper, you would need to write a much longer debian/rules; it's not usually worth the effort)
 * infinity sighs at easymock trying to pull the entire maven world into main via the new dep on libobjenesis-java ...
 * infinity decides this isn't something to try to fix at 12:30am.
<jfi> tedg, Trevinho, Hello, I reproduce with the sample at: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopExperienceTeam/ApplicationIndicators, just add app_indicator_set_label(indicator, "L", "GUIDDDDDE"); at line 165
<jfi> tedg, Trevinho, http://pastebin.com/4w8q9VLb
<infinity> jamespage: Can libhamcrest-java be made to not nead easymock, or easymock neutered to not need libobjenesis-java?  That chain has decided to pull all things maven into main. :/
<anirudha> cjwatson: You are right. I will be automating the process through a script, so dh_make won't help me in any special way.
<anirudha> cjwatson: Are you aware of any Ubuntu specific alternative of debhelper? For example (correct me if I am wrong) an alternative to dh_make is bzr-builddeb.
<infinity> anirudha: bzr builddeb is just a friendly wrapper that exports a bzr branch and then runs dpkg-buildpackage.
<infinity> anirudha: The debian/* bits still need to exist first.
<anirudha> infinity: Thanks. That cleared my doubts.
<mitya57> When Utopic didn't even have a code name, I sponsored gnome-panel/1:3.8.0-1ubuntu12 to Trusty SRU queue, now it is accepted there. Should I copy it to Utopic (with binaries), or do another upload with version bump, or nothing?
<infinity> mitya57: I wouldn't copy it until it gets to updates, or you may find yourself in a bit of a weird versioning bind if it fails SRU validation.
<infinity> mitya57: But you could always do a -1ubuntu13 upload to utopic and just not worry about the copy.
<mitya57> infinity: Thanks. My main concern was that it could be not copied to -updates until Trusty gets it, that is probably not true.
<infinity> mitya57: (As in, that's never the wrong thing to do, it's just sometimes people are lazy and expect others will do the copy forward for them so they don't have to do two uploads :P)
<infinity> mitya57: s/Trusty/Utopic/ in your last sentence?
<mitya57> Of course.
<infinity> mitya57: No one will block the SRU copy on if the fix has landed yet in utopic, no.  But it's also a headache to track the differences and make sure everything's happy, so if you're at all concerned, just do the second upload.
<infinity> mitya57: It's not like you're saving any mirror space by being clever with the copy, given that it's gnome-panel, and it'll have a dozen uploads this cycle anyway. :P
<mitya57> Maybe I'll do a Debian merge if I have time :P
<infinity> mitya57: Oh, speaking of things you uploaded.  Congrats on your sync that failed everywhere EXCEPT powerpc.  That's got to be a first.
<infinity> mitya57: (owncloud-client/1.5.3+dfsg-1)
<mitya57> infinity: I filed a bug to Debian yesterday, if I don't get any response, I'll just ignore the tests failures
<mitya57> I think it has something to do with parallel running (is the powerpc buildd single-core?)
<infinity> mitya57: The machine it build on would have been -j2
<infinity> mitya57: While the x86 buildds were -j8, armhf was -j4, arm64 was -j8, and ppc64el was... Also -j8
<infinity> mitya57: So, yeah, a fair guess.
<infinity> mitya57: And the answer there wouldn't be to ignore failures, but to make the testsuite not parallelise.
<infinity> mitya57: You just got lucky in landing on a -j2 ppc builder, I guess.  Your other options in that pool were -j4 and -j24 (yes, 24).
<mitya57> infinity: Will dh_auto_test -- -j1 do the trick? Or will that result in two conflicting options?
<sarnold> -j24? oooo
<sarnold> seems a real pity to knock a -j24 machine down to a -j1 test suite, heh
<infinity> mitya57: Not sure the best way to do it without looking at the package.
<mitya57> sarnold: The test suite is quite small, takes seconds to run
<mitya57> infinity: It is using cmake/ctest
<sarnold> mitya57: ah :) that's not so bad then
<sarnold> especially if it makes the results repeatable. :)
<infinity> mitya57: So, you could lose --parallel entirely from dh, or try --max-parallel=1 with dh_auto_test, but not sure if the latter would work if the cmake magic already picked up and hardcoded -j8 earlier in the build process.
<infinity> cmake and I aren't the best of friends.
 * infinity checks locally to see how reproducible this is.
<infinity> Oh, it also handily prints out the -j2 in the log there, so easy to tell if it's fixed.
 * infinity tests.
<infinity> mitya57: http://paste.ubuntu.com/7357643/
<infinity> mitya57: That ran the build -j4 on my laptop, but the testsuite -j1, and passed.
<infinity> mitya57: Feel free to steal and upload and comment on the Debian bug, I have no interest in having TIL on that package. :)
<mitya57> infinity: Thanks, will now upload & comment :)
<mpt> bdmurray, iirc, the formula for a series secondary color is halfway between the primary color and white (#ffffff)
<work_alkisg> [gnome|unity]-settings-daemon have an Ubuntu-specific patch, that strips the xkb options for keyboard layout switch:
<work_alkisg> if (n_sources < 2 || g_strcmp0 (g_getenv ("XDG_CURRENT_DESKTOP"), "Unity") == 0)
<work_alkisg>                 strip_xkb_option (options, "grp:");
<work_alkisg> That's causing many serious keyboard issues and I'm trying to find the person that wrote that patch to discuss about possible solutions, before filing more bug reports (I've reported 5-6 related issues already)
<work_alkisg> I think the original patch was in gnome-settings-daemon/debian/patches/unity-modifier-media-keys.patch, but I'm having problems locating the branch history in launchpad, could someone help me find the author of that patch?
<pitti> doko_: ah yes, that was a temporary glitch yesterday, already fixed an hour later
<pitti> doko_: I forgot to retry python3.4 as that failed before, due to -testsuite crashing in postinst
<pitti> doko_: retried (as there's a new version now)
<infinity> alkisg: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/154896043/gnome-settings-daemon_3.8.5-0ubuntu10_3.8.5-0ubuntu11.1.diff.gz
<infinity> alkisg: That looks like the upload that introduced it.
<alkisg> So william.hua, thanks a lot infinity
<mitya57> alkisg: He is attente on #ubuntu-desktop. Also you could just look at http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop/gnome-settings-daemon/ubuntu/revision/438
<alkisg> mitya57: thank you, I'll read some more to prepare my "case", and I'll talk to him later on.
<infinity> mitya57: Did you not send the 1-line fix to https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=746278 or is the BTS just lagging?
<ubottu> Debian bug 746278 in src:owncloud-client "owncloud-client: FTBFS: tests fail when ran in parallel" [Serious,Open]
<GunnarHj> Thanks for the im-config upload, dholbach. Can you please merge the branch too. Since the branch and archive were out of sync, the robot won't do it.
<dholbach> GunnarHj, done
<GunnarHj> dholbach: Thanks. :)
<dholbach> anytime :)
<seb128> dholbach, did you upload the SRU as well?
<dholbach> seb128, right now I just uploaded the merge
<GunnarHj> dholbach: I think seb128 referred to separate SRU bug, which actually is much more urgent.
<dholbach> ah ok
<seb128> GunnarHj, dholbach: I was speaking about the "no ibus under qt5" bug (I crossed it yesterday while looking at reports since release)
<ara> Hello, we have a bug I would like to get triaged, but not sure if it is the right package
<ara> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/systemd/+bug/1313522
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1313522 in OEM Priority Project "There is hibernate option even without an active swap partition" [Critical,New]
<ara> does anyone know what package we should file the bug against?
<rbasak> pitti: so I'm merging vsftpd, and the existing delta drops the init.d script entirely (replacing with an upstart script)
<rbasak> pitti: with bug 1273462 not fixed, having it there is an immediate problem. So does this bug block the systemd story?
<ubottu> bug 1273462 in upstart (Ubuntu) "Users can mistakenly run init.d scripts and cause problems if an equivalent upstart job already exists" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1273462
<pitti> rbasak: hm, I thought during the TC debate and before Debian figured out how to run upstart an sysv side by side in the packaging? i. e. our dh_installinit has already been changed to ignore --upstart-only and all that
<rbasak> pitti: AIUI, it is a Debian policy requirement to make sure that if a maintainer ships an upstart script, and upstart is in use, then any shipped init.d script must not break things.
<rbasak> AIUI, this was to be implemented by having /lib/lsb/init-functions detect this situation, to easily cover all init.d scripts that use it.
<pitti> rbasak: for now, don't worry too much about putting back init.d scripts I think
<rbasak> OK
<pitti> rbasak: with systemd one could use the init.d script, but it would make much more sense to use socket activation with vsftp and write a proper systemd unit
<rbasak> pitti: my thinking was that if we solved this init.d script issue, then systemd would at least magically work for everything without needing specific systemd work on each package.
<rbasak> (thus making the systemd migration much easier)
<pitti> rbasak: right, that was the idea; I lived under the impression that upstart vs. init.d conflicts were already handled
<rbasak> Ah, OK. AFAIK, we have agreed how to handle it, but haven't actually done it.
<pitti> rbasak: and /lib/lsb/init-functions seemed to indicate that this was the case already
<pitti> ah: it defines init_is_upstart(), but doesn't use it by itself
<pitti> thus it seems every init.d script would need to add that? that seems crazy and totally impractical
<rbasak> I think the plan is to have init-functions do it, but that's pending.
<pitti> rbasak: then again, if you directly call the init.d script instead of using "service", you probably get what you asked for
<rbasak> So technically we do need to have every init.d script handle it, but in practice I think everyone's waiting for lsb-functions instead.
<rbasak> pitti: indeed, but many people do still call init.d scripts directly. We get bugs filed when things break that way.
<pitti> ah, service DTRT
<rbasak> cf. "/etc/init.d/networking restart"
<pitti> rbasak: if you run that, a lot more will actually break, but yes
<pitti> perhaps we need to make all init scripts non-executable or so
<rbasak> Maybe change the shebangs to some kind of wrapper?
<rbasak> Seems a bit extreme though.
<rbasak> Though actually, rather than doing it across the board, having a guard-type wrapper that a maintainer can just shebang could be another way of implementing the protection.
<rbasak> #!/usr/bin/not-if-upstart /bin/sh -e ...
<pitti> rbasak: that would again require to touch all packages
<rbasak> Or dh_installinit?
<pitti> rbasak: perhaps, yes; and a mass-rebuild; but I think making them non-executable might be easier
<ara> cjwatson, is systemd the right package for this issue: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/systemd/+bug/1313522
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1313522 in OEM Priority Project "There is hibernate option even without an active swap partition" [Critical,New]
<pitti> I mean, if people are willingly shooting themselves into the foot by calling init scripts and that is considered a bug, let's make them not able to :)
<cjwatson> ara: I thought that was pm-utils, but pitti is more likely to know what's current there
<pitti> ara: curious; we have disabled hibernate for many cycles by default now
<rbasak> How would real pieces (service, rc etc) call init.d scripts if they are non-executable?
<rbasak> By reading their shebangs by hand?
<ara> pitti, yes, but we (commercial eng) are remapping hibernate to hybrid sleep
<rbasak> Also, the user won't get a helpful message that way.
<pitti> ara: could be anything between systemd and the indicator; I'll follow up there
<ara> pitti, fantastic, thanks
<pitti> ara: ah, so they put it back on? can you please describe what you changed there? (in the bug please)
<ara> pitti, sure
<pitti> ara: don't tell the design team :) they were quite adamant about disabling hibernate by default
<ara> pitti, well, this is hybrid sleep it is not the same thing (although very similar) and we make sure it works :D
<pitti> ara: yes, but they said having two options was too confusing
<pitti> ara: followed up
<ara> thanks
<pitti> ara: OOI, if such an issue (non-default configuration, non-essentail functionality) is already "Critical", how do you mark things which are actually critical? :)
<ara> pitti, well, I marked it as critical only in the OEM priority task, as it is critical for our schedule, not in the ubuntu task
<pitti> ara: yes, sure; I was just interested in how you interpret the importance there
<xnox> pitti: rbasak: i am working on a proper snippet to fix "running init.d scripts and get upstart job to launch properly" submitted fixes to debian for sysv-init (service command and invoke-rc.d)
<xnox> pitti: rbasak: one more patch is needed in upstart it self, and then we can sync all of that to utopic and sru into trusty.
<pitti> xnox: ah nice, thanks for the heads-up!
<xnox> pitti: rbasak: as far as i can tell, systemd packaging in debian already does it via /ib/lsb/init-functions.d
<xnox> pitti: rbasak: such that under systemd one can just operate init.d files and that does call into systemd appropriately.
<xnox> pitti: i'm not running systemd, but can you test that ^ ? e.g. call /etc/init.d/ssh restart and check that it gets restarted via systemd unit?
<rbasak> xnox: thanks!
<pitti> ah, clever! Is there any piece of shell in Debian which does not have a .d/ yet? :-)
<cjwatson> xnox: Yes, it does
<cjwatson> cjwatson@sid-systemd-amd64:~$ sudo /etc/init.d/ssh restart
<cjwatson> Restarting ssh (via systemctl): ssh.service.
<xnox> excellent!
<cjwatson> (OK, that's on Debian)
<pitti> xnox: still want me to test? (need to reboot, currently running upstart as I'm working with LXC)
<cjwatson> My Xen guest is only good for server-ish testing, but useful for what I need
<xnox> pitti: i think it's fine. no need.
<doko> jamespage, if you didn't see it, the maven mess is just caused by easymock's b-d objenesis
<pitti> xnox: tested with udev and ssh, works fie
<pitti> xnox: fine, too
<jamespage> doko, I did but I've not had time to look yet
<pitti> xnox: (VMs for the win :) )
<ypwong> rrect
<pitti> ara: FYI, test-building a fix now
<pitti> ara: working well
<jhenke> hi, is somebody willing to sync the efibootmgr package with debian? 0.6.1-3 got into testing shortly after the intial utopic sync, ubuntu is still with the old major release 0.5.4-7ubuntu1
<jhenke> which would also resolve the delta btw, as the patch was applied upstrem in 0.6.0 release
<doko> apw, supermin ftbfs on armhf
<pitti> does anyone know how "rtc" gets into /etc/modules? I don't see it in kmod or any postinst on my system
<pitti> rtc isn't a module any more, so startup barfs on that
<pitti> cjwatson, apw, xnox ^ do you happen to have an off-hand idea?
<cjwatson> hw-detect
<cjwatson> ./hw-detect.sh:164:get_rtc_info() {
<cjwatson> ./hw-detect.sh:168:             amd64/*) register-module rtc ;;
<pitti> cjwatson: ah, thanks!
<pitti> cjwatson: so I suppose this should maybe check "modinfo rtc" before it adds that, or should it go completely?
<apw> doko, i will ahve a look next, just fixing up ruby-kgio
<apw> pitti, uggg, are you saying that if someone puts something in /etc/modules and we change that module to builtin their machine will no longer boot ?
<apw> pitti, that sounds like we should fix whatever loads them ?
<pitti> apw: no no, it still boots
<pitti> apw: but that unit shows a failure in systemctl status, which looks ugly
<apw> oh didums :)
<apw> well i guess that is good, so we find it
<pitti> apw: cjwatson already pointed out where it's from
<apw> but then again is it a failure, to not load ... as you can't remove it in case they run older kernels no ?
<apw> or at least for "some time"
<cjwatson> pitti: We could probably just remove it from hw-detect if it's gone permanently from the kernel (and not just a config change or whatever), but we'll need to handle it on upgrades as well since hw-detect is an installer component
<pitti> apw: I think we already didn't have it in trusty, did we?
<pitti> apw: anyway, it's mostly a cosmetical problem, but it seems odd to try and load a module which we don't even ship
<cjwatson> well, arguably need to handle it on upgrades
<pitti> ah, that too
<pitti> or we silence the unit to ignore missing modules
<cjwatson> That seems suboptimal - it's probably good typo detection
<pitti> but that makes real bugs harder to detect
<apw> pitti, yeah its likely anchient
<pitti> our kmod.conf just does
<pitti> modprobe $module $args || :
<pitti> and indeed /var/log/upstart/kmod.log has similar FATAL messages
<apw> we like fatal messages
<cjwatson> We could ignore named ones, or (probably better) remove them on upgrade of $some_package
<pitti> cjwatson: $some_package == kmod perhaps?
<pitti> that seems like the closest one
<cjwatson> seems plausible
<cjwatson> I guess the idea is let's keep the compatibility crud out of runtime paths
<pitti> ack, will file bugs etc. later, need to run now (train arriving)
<tkamppeter> pitti, which entry do I need to add to the AppArmor profile to silence the audit messages in bug 1314160?
<ubottu> bug 1314160 in cups (Ubuntu) "Apparmor profile violated: cupsd does mknod on /var/cache/samba/gencache.tdb" [Undecided,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1314160
<smoser> anyone on sru team care to comment on this...
<smoser> bug 1185756 was released to -updates
<ubottu> bug 1185756 in drbd8 (Ubuntu Precise) "drbd8-utils not compatible with linux-lts-raring kernel in 12.04" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1185756
<smoser> but it was not fully fixed.
<smoser> does it require a new bug ? for SRU of the change ?
<smoser> crickets
<smoser> infinity, ^ you have thoughts on that ? Daviey ?
<smb> smoser, If there is no clean way otherwise, I guess we could open our own bug with "drbd backport causes regressions" and I create a new source package referring to that one
<jhenke> Hi, I would like to ask for a sync of the efibootmgr package with Debian. Debian got a new upstream version into testing shortly after the intial utopic sync. That would bring Ubuntu back to the Debian version, as the only diff has been applied upstream in the new version.
<cjwatson> jhenke: done
<jhenke> cjwatson thanks
<stgraber> ScottK: edubuntu-server is now in the release pocket
<bdmurray> pitti: why is gvfs being SRU'ed to trusty? there is no bug reference
<mitya57> infinity: https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=746278#12
<ubottu> Debian bug 746278 in src:owncloud-client "owncloud-client: FTBFS: tests fail when ran in parallel" [Serious,Open]
<ng1002> Question: Is there a terminal command I can use to launch Gnome3's dash?
<ScottK> stgraber: Thanks.
#ubuntu-devel 2014-04-30
<pitti> bdmurray: I'm sure it was just because I forgot to change it to utopic; I already wondered where my upload went
<pitti> Good morning
<pitti> smoser: great, utopic cloud images exist now, thanks! do you know what's missing to generate a /current link in http://cloud-images.ubuntu.com/utopic/ ?
<jibel> pitti, I pushed https://code.launchpad.net/~jibel/britney/fix_missing_results it fixes the problem with vanishing results and results that changed over time, detects regression and always failing tests and only block regressions, and adds some coloring to excuses
<jibel> pitti, I didn't proposed a merge yet, I need to fix the testsuite because what was not considered before are now identified as "always failing" and promoted
<pitti> jibel: yay, you rock
<dholbach> good morning
<smb> xnox, cjwatson, The way that bug 1313497 turns out I wonder whether there would be any way of helping people to make better decisions when selecting kernel package in preseeds. Maybe extending the example with some explanation in the comments? (help.ubuntu.com/14.04/installation-guide)
<ubottu> bug 1313497 in linux (Ubuntu) "USB keyboard unresponsive on fresh install" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1313497
<pitti> infinity: mind if I steal your modemmanager merge?
<pitti> infinity: (in fact, I'd like to try a sync first, and re-apply your -O2 workaround if it still fails)
<pitti> darkxst: ^ FYI
<rsalveti> xnox: updated bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/android/+bug/1305315
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1305315 in gcc-i686-linux-android (Ubuntu) "Android container fails to start when built with the gcc-i686-linux-android toolchain" [Undecided,New]
<pitti> xnox: we need to merge sysvinit so that invoke-rc.d works with systemd; are you already at it, shall I do it now, or is there a reason not to merge and I just cherry-pick these patches? (debian bug 683084 mostly)
<ubottu> Debian bug 683084 in sysv-rc "Make invoke-rc.d/update-rc.d systemd-aware" [Wishlist,Fixed] http://bugs.debian.org/683084
<pitti> doko, cjwatson: do we still care about "cell processor" and spu? (sysvinit delta)
<doko> pitti, I removed all the compiler stuff now from the toolchain packages
<cjwatson> pitti: I certainly don't
<pitti> ok, so that seems obsolete; thanks for confirming!
<SpamapS> hrm, anybody have clues on the magic incantations to get trusty's kernel to boot without any graphics modes?
<SpamapS> nofb nomodeset vga=normal is not doing it
<smb> SpamapS, "text" ?
<smb> Though that is not a kernel argument but one that upstart looks at
<smb> iirc
<SpamapS> smb: this is for a custom initrd
<SpamapS> smb: trying  video=vesafb:off
<smb> Oh and maybe needs to set grub to use console in /etc/default/grub
<SpamapS> no grub, PXE boot
<smb> ah
<SpamapS> which is part of the problem.. using an ILO remote KVM which doesn't want to support VGA without "red tape"
<SpamapS> support non-VGA text mode I Mean
<smb> Yeah, not sure with pxe boot. for some bare-metal servers which don't like that for virtual KVMs either I use the grub console + nomodeset
<doko> infinity, https://launchpadlibrarian.net/174223989/buildlog_ubuntu-utopic-amd64.notmuch_0.18~rc0-1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz  can't reproduce this one locally
<hakermania> Can someone drop the link for a guide for pushing a package through the update manager?
<hakermania> e.g. release an updated version of an existent package mid-release.
<ogra_> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
<ogra_> ?
<xnox> smb: what kernel should be used? in the bug report you recommend "linux-server" but that is transitional package, which is linux-generic?
<xnox> smb: i believe in expert mode we offer a choice from generic & lts-backport kernels.... but one can preseed anything.
<smb> xnox, Yeah, I think I mentioned that server and generic are only historical. But mainly not using linux-image-xxx and not -virtual if you install on real hardware.
<xnox> smb: no idea where that user found linux-image-virtual as preseed value.
<smb> xnox, The problem in that bug is that they use preseed and picked linux-image-virtual for some reason
<smb> xnox, That is a very good question indeed. :-P
<xnox> rsalveti: yeah, during platform build aosp does use -Wl,-shared,-Bsymbolic (libc.so generation et.al.)
<xnox> rsalveti: do you want to just force those flags in Android.mk in the android build?
<ogra_> would be good if we could do that differently (more globally) else it is another thing porters need to care about
<ogra_> (though Android.mk sounds like a good last resort)
<xnox> pitti: i'm not Merged-It-Last, but only tiny-patched-it-last =)
<xnox> pitti: there are a few things from our sysvinit that should be pushed to debian, i'll look into those.
<pitti> xnox: right, but as per the current TIL rules I'm supposed to ask you before I start on it
<xnox> pitti: go for it.
<hakermania> ogra_, thanks a lot
<smoser> pitti, bother utlemming about utopic images. i suspect /current would only get created when there was something with all arches output or possibly pushed to ec2.
<pitti> smoser: ah, thanks
<pitti> utlemming: ah, /current is blocked on getting buildable armhf cloud images, I suppose?
<smoser> pitti, and ppc64el also at this point.
<smoser> and arm64
<smoser> stupid suporting to many archtectures!
<pitti> ack, thanks
<smoser> pitti the plan i think in this next cycle will be to decouple a lot of this.
<pitti> so, I'll continue the regular "manually upgrade our VMs" morning exercise for the time being :)
<smoser> so that you may have the simplestreams data update dfor a single product
<smoser> ie com.ubuntu.cloud.daily:server:14.04:ppc64el from http://cloud-images.ubuntu.com/daily/streams/v1/com.ubuntu.cloud:daily:download.json
<smoser> could get updated but com.ubuntu.cloud.daily:server:14.04:amd64 not
<smb> stgraber, infinity Could one of you reject  	drbd8 2:8.4.3-0ubuntu0.12.04.2 from the unapproved queue. I would have a additional piece of fix to merge in
<smb> Precise that is
<infinity> smb: Sure.
<infinity> pitti: Re: modemmanager, go nuts.
<pitti> infinity: ack; synced
<smb> infinity, thanks!
<infinity> pitti: I see no evidence in the changelog that the bug would have been fixed, FWIW.
<infinity> pitti: And I don't think I got around to filing a bug about the problem.
<infinity> pitti: And, indeed, it just failed on ppc64el. :)
<infinity> pitti: So, enjoy reapplying my 4-line diff. :)
<pitti> meh
<pitti> infinity: ack, will do :)
<pitti> infinity: oh, so that's not actually an ICE or anything, just the -Werror=maybe-uninitialized
<infinity> pitti: Right, but I didn't have the time to actually fix the code.  If you want to, please do and forward the patch back.
<pitti> infinity: the chroots on porter, are they still the old-style "install packages and never remove cruft" things, or some sane ones with tarballs or overlays?
<pitti> ah, apparently still rapt (which inconveniently fails, meh)
<infinity> pitti: The former, sadly.  Someone needs to find time to mangle the DSA chroot stuff to work with lp-buildd tarball imports and hand off to IS, so we can have a nicer layout.
<infinity> pitti: rapt is failing?
<pitti> $ sudo apt-get build-dep modemmanager
<pitti> AttributeError: 'apt_pkg.SourceRecords' object has no attribute 'Lookup'
<infinity> build-dep has never worked in rapt.
<infinity> dpkg-checkbuilddeps -B && transcribe by hand.
 * pitti gives up and abuses one of his autopkgtest LXC containers then
<infinity> But switching x86 to -O3 would expose the same bug, no need to test on PPC anyway.
<pitti> infinity: ah, we build with -O3 by default on ppc64el?
<infinity> pitti: Yeah.
<infinity> pitti: Hence the s/-O3/-O2/ patch. :P
<pitti> ah, so it does
<Daviey> arges: Are you releasing openstack saucy sru?
<arges> Daviey: Already did this morning
<pitti> infinity: sent to https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=729267
<ubottu> Gnome bug 729267 in ModemManager "Build failure: mm-modem-messaging.c:168:24: error: 'array' may be used uninitialized in this function" [Major,Unconfirmed]
<pitti> infinity: this is actually quite serious
<Daviey> arges: Ah yes, see it now.  Thanks
<arges> np
<infinity> pitti: And, yet, doesn't trip under -O2... I usually take that to mean some implicit initialization is being optimised out as a result of one of the extra optimizations.
<mvo> infinity: build-dep never worked in rapt? hey, I'm here to help with that, tell me more please :)
<infinity> mvo: Well, the solution isn't to fix rapt, it's to ditch it for dd-schroot-cmd.
<pitti> yeah
<pitti> these static permanent schroots are essentially useless once you clutter them with the first umpteen build deps
<mvo> infinity: ok
<pitti> chroot tarballs work quite well, and are ephemeral as they ought to be
<seb128> mvo, don't be sad, if infinity doesn't have work for you I can find you stuff to work on *g*
<infinity> pitti: Well, the other upshot of dd-schroot-cmd combined with pulling tarballs from LP is that you'd have an environment dangerously close to a real buildd.
<mvo> seb128: haha, no worries, I don't get bored too soon :P
<pitti> infinity: *nod*
<seb128> mvo, ;-)
<pitti> infinity: committed to Debian and uploaded a packaging git snapshot, so that we stay in sync
<infinity> pitti: Cool, thanks.
<bdmurray> pitti: okay, I'll reject it then
<pitti> bdmurray: someone already did
<bdmurray> pitti: okay, thanks
<bdmurray> mvo: Did you see https://errors.ubuntu.com/problem/70c1930688440b1818145db3346da61eb39a7ac8?
<mvo> bdmurray: I didn't :/
<xnox> Anyone has powerpc box to try out and see if this is a scilab regression or... openjdk? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/scilab/+bug/1314646
<mvo> bdmurray: thanks a bunch, I prepare a fix
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1314646 in scilab (Ubuntu) "scilab fails to launch on powerpc" [Undecided,New]
<bdmurray> mvo: you should have received an email from the phased updater (sent as me) about it
<xnox> getfem++ could be build without scilab support on powerpc to unblock things.
<mvo> bdmurray: indeed I did
<jdstrand> xnox: I don't, but note that a new openjdk-7 was just pused to utopic-proposed a few minutes ago. might be worth seeing if the issue is still there
<xnox> jdstrand: still a problem.
<jdstrand> ah, too bad
<sithlord48> can git-hg be used to import to launchpad?
<infinity> sithlord48: Are you asking if a git-to-mercurial tool can be used to import a bzr project? :)
<sithlord48> yes
<infinity> I'll just leave that question there until it sinks in, then.
<zyga> sithlord48: do you want git or hg?
<sithlord48> the project uses hg
<zyga> sithlord48: then if you get a git export then you gen get a bzr import on lp
<xnox> sithlord48: http://blog.launchpad.net/notifications/mercurial-imports-will-end-on-october-5th
<sithlord48> yeah i had seen that . so all i can do i get see if i can get the repo changeed to git or svn?
<zyga> sithlord48: just use git
<xnox> sithlord48: yeah, or host a git mirror somewhere. Maybe github offers hg->git mirroring?
<sithlord48> ill have to see about the mirror then thanks.  i can't change it not my project . i am only trying to package for easier user testing.
<xnox> jdstrand: fails in debian as well, i'll report to debian.
<rsalveti> xnox: can we force it in the toolchain itself?
<rsalveti> xnox: there's no way to force that flag just for the shared libraries it seems
<rsalveti> we just have a global LDFLAGS
<rsalveti> which then would be used for all the binaries, not only shared ones
<xnox> rsalveti: i'm trying to figure out how. ANDROID_DEFAULT is set, and toolchain is using android linker script, which should give us -Bsymbolic.
<xnox> rsalveti: doko pointed out that ubuntu build-flags maybe interracting negatively, but i've now did a rebuild with no dpkg-exported build-flags as well.
<xnox> rsalveti: i'm doing a toolchain build using aosp ndk scripts. If that rebuild from source correctly & if that is using the right flags, i'll just upload that for now.
<rsalveti> xnox: yeah, great then
<rsalveti> thanks
<jdstrand> pitti, jibel: hi! I just got a notification about this failure: https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/job/utopic-adt-click-apparmor/1. Looking at the click-apparmor autopkgtest, this is what is failing: http://paste.ubuntu.com/7367050/
<jdstrand> pitti, jibel: (this is in debian/tests/test_aa-clickhook, which uses /bin/sh)
<pitti> jdstrand: hey
<pitti> jdstrand: either detect a user by something like this: getent passwd | sort -t: -nk3 | awk -F: '{if ($3 >= 500) { print $1; exit } }'
<pitti> jdstrand: or drop the "needs-root" and then your debian/tests/foo can do "sudo run/the/actual/test"
<pitti> jdstrand: yeah, current machinery doesn't run tests through sudo any more (that was an internal implementation detail)
<slangasek> ... "sudo run/the/actual/test"?  surely the adt interface doesn't guarantee that the running user has sudo access
<pitti> no, it doesn't
<pitti> it works on our qemu runner, not entirely sure about the LXC ones
<pitti> so definitively better to pick an existing user, or even just hardcode "nobody" or so
<pitti> or just call adduser in the test
<jdstrand> pitti: ok, thanks
<infinity> mvo_: If you need help speccing and testing that eol tool/script, you can bounce off me.
<infinity> slangasek: ^
<mvo_> infinity: thanks! I look into the details and then come back and ask for help I guess :)
<rsalveti> xnox: any luck with your local i686 toolchain builds?
<bdmurray> mvo_: do you want to upload ubuntu-release-upgrader for utopic?
<mvo_> bdmurray: I have not prepared it yet, probably friday, but feel free to upload :)
<hallyn> where do i get info on how we buidl the qemu images on which adt tests are run?
<hallyn> looking at https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/job/utopic-adt-cgmanager/1/?  and i can't reproduce on my own utopic i386 image...
<xnox> hallyn: $ bzr branch lp:auto-package-testing; ./bin/prepare-testbed ./bin/run-adt-test ?
<xnox> hallyn: it's a cloud image.
<hallyn> xnox: thanks
<zyga> hey
<zyga> could someone please look at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/bzr-fastimport/+bug/1314771
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1314771 in bzr-fastimport (Ubuntu) "binary_stream cannot be imported from fastimport (the other project removed that function)" [Undecided,New]
<zyga> I've attached a debdiff there
<zyga> could someone please review that and upload it to utopic?
<zyga> it breaks all bzr exports to othe version control formats
<zyga> pitti: perhaps you? (sorry for poking)
<cyphermox> I think I remember there was a workaround for msgmerge/msgfmt segfaulting in qemu/armhf for PPA builds. anyone remember what the workaround was? or am I misremembering this?
<infinity> xnox: Say, do you want to look into why your no-change rebuild of devscripts fails autopkgtest?
<infinity> xnox: I guess it migrated due to the nasty bug pitti and jibel are working on (or someone forced it), but it shouldn't have.
<xnox> infinity: correct it should not have migrated.
<xnox> infinity: also, last time i've looked all adt tests have not been retried on utopic before opening -> just those that happened to get triggered.
<infinity> cyphermox: Do you have a specific build where this happens?
<infinity> cyphermox: I'd be curious to try it out on one of the buildds where we upgraded qemu.
<xnox> infinity: i've looked at devscripts failures, and i have -ENOCLUE
<cyphermox> infinity: yeah: https://launchpadlibrarian.net/174263190/buildlog_ubuntu-utopic-armhf.urfkill_0.5.0%2B20140429.092522.b3b9563-0ubuntu1~mtrudel3_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<cyphermox> infinity: I expect it's probably fixed in a newer qemu yeah
<infinity> cyphermox: Link to the build, not the log.
<infinity> cyphermox: Pretty please.
<cyphermox> just a second
<cyphermox> https://launchpad.net/~mathieu-tl/+archive/ppa/+build/5964817
<cyphermox> I just thought I had seen some kind of configure hack in the past to work around this, but my research has failed
<bdmurray> xnox: Do you mind uploading the fix for bug 1277706?
<ubottu> bug 1277706 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Precise) "ubiquity in precise-updates, doesn't have tight enough dependency on python-apt leading to crashers" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1277706
<infinity> cyphermox: Aww, no luck on qemu 2.0 fixing your segv.  It was worth a shot, though.
<cyphermox> yup
<cyphermox> well, it works on real hardware, I'll just have to look harder
<xnox> bdmurray: i believe i did.... let me check.
<xnox> bdmurray: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/precise/+queue?queue_state=1&queue_text=ubiquity
<bdmurray> xnox: oh, then let me approve it ;-)
#ubuntu-devel 2014-05-01
<Logan_> infinity: mind a quick PM?
<infinity> Logan_: Go nuts.
<Laney> @pilot in
* udevbot changed the topic of #ubuntu-devel to: Trusty Final released! | Archive: Open | Devel of Ubuntu (not support or app devel) | build failures -> http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs/ | #ubuntu for support and discussion of lucid -> trusty | #ubuntu-app-devel for app development on Ubuntu http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment | See #ubuntu-bugs for http://bit.ly/lv8soi | Patch Pilots: xnox, Laney
<Laney> xnox: is that lies?
<xnox> @pilot out
* udevbot changed the topic of #ubuntu-devel to: Trusty Final released! | Archive: Open | Devel of Ubuntu (not support or app devel) | build failures -> http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs/ | #ubuntu for support and discussion of lucid -> trusty | #ubuntu-app-devel for app development on Ubuntu http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment | See #ubuntu-bugs for http://bit.ly/lv8soi | Patch Pilots: Laney
<xnox> yes lies
<Laney> lies begone
<Laney> @pilot out
* udevbot changed the topic of #ubuntu-devel to: Trusty Final released! | Archive: Open | Devel of Ubuntu (not support or app devel) | build failures -> http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs/ | #ubuntu for support and discussion of lucid -> trusty | #ubuntu-app-devel for app development on Ubuntu http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment | See #ubuntu-bugs for http://bit.ly/lv8soi | Patch Pilots:
<Laney> smoser: do you know why http://cloud-images.ubuntu.com/utopic/ doesn't have a current/ symlink?
<smoser> Laney, raised yesterday by pitti.
<Laney> I guess for the same reason ;-)
<smoser> http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2014/04/30/%23ubuntu-devel.html#t05:56
<Laney> smoser: I see your reply, okay ...
<mpt> cyphermox, whatâs the maximum length for a Wi-Fi access point name?
<xnox> mpt: 32
<Laney> bytes
<mpt> thanks
<mpt> â¦Which may include emoji. http://f.cl.ly/items/1H2s3G1B3Q1l1C35452I/network.png
<mlankhorst> ;D
<xnox> mpt: correct, the spec didn't actually specify what encoding it's suppose to be.
<mlankhorst> utf-8 of course!
<xnox> mlankhorst: KOI8-R ftw!
<mlankhorst> no!
<xnox> mlankhorst: honestly you'd get kicked from russian irc channel for speaking in utf-8
<mdeslaur> xnox: oh? do you use two irc clients or something?
<mlankhorst> last time i was on a russian server (iirc) it offered an option to set utf-8 and it would do the translating for you :P
<xnox> mdeslaur: no, i've emigrated
<xnox> =)
<mdeslaur> heh
<mlankhorst> well, translation between character sets
<mdeslaur> ah, interesting
<bdmurray> arges: could you have a look at update-manager in the saucy proposed queue?
<arges> bdmurray: sure
<stgraber> hallyn: so did you talk to pitti about your systemd-logind weirdness in utopic?
<arges> bdmurray: (making a mental note for myself) update-manager updates have version changes like that?
<hallyn> stgraber: no, not yet.
<arges> bdmurray: since its ubuntu only right
<bdmurray> arges: right
<arges> bdmurray: is this fixed in all other versions then? or doesn't affect others
<bdmurray> arges: looking at the errors bucket it still only affects saucy
<hallyn> pitti: (punting on the systemd-logind weirdness first,) do you think converting /etc/init/{cgmanager,cgproxy}.conf to systemd units would be hard?  Is there guidance yet about how to properly do such a conversion?
<arges> bdmurray: ok accepted
<hallyn> say, is anyone looking into updating util-linux?  (i.e will i be wasting my time if i start to)
<cjwatson> hallyn: infinity is
<hallyn> cool
<dunkel2> hello
<slangasek> pitti: I'm very confused by this doodle poll; I thought doodle had an option to show times in your local timezone, and it's not giving me that option at all... and if these are London times, it doesn't make sense to me why the options are the ones that they are
<slangasek> pitti: so before I fill out the poll, I want to make sure 5am-8am,3pm-10pm Europe/London are the right options...
<arges> Quick Start
<arges> whoops
<Logan_> cjwatson: could you please add me to ~ubuntu-transition-trackers?
<xnox> Logan_: what transition do you want to setup? pastebin the config and/or do merge proposal and i'll commit it.
<Logan_> but I want the power ;P
<Logan_> sure, I'll do an MP, but I'd like to be part of the team
<Laney> Show that you can construct correct files a couple of times, then you can be added
<Logan_> sure
<Logan_> xnox, Laney: did an MP
<xnox> Logan_: with $ reverse-depends libmpich10 --list | xargs bin2src | sort -u | wc
<xnox> Laney: i get 24 affected packages, yet when i run that config above, i only get 7 affected packages?!
<xnox> i'll update my packages file
<Logan_> that's odd
<Logan_> xnox: it appears that the config is only returning the ones without architectures listed
<Logan_> how do we account for the ones with architectures listed?
<Laney> check affected, not good or bad
<Logan_> ah, so it won't say that ones with architectures listed are bad, even if they are depending on the older version of the library?
<Laney> It's true that liboasis3-0d only depends on libmpich10 on arm64 and doesn't build-depend on it, to take an example
<Logan_> Laney: I have no idea why that would be the case... shouldn't there be an explicit build dependency, then?
<Logan_> Laney: should the .ben file just say that it affects ones that currently depend on libmpich10?
<Logan_> (instead of looking at the build dependencies?)
<Logan_> Laney: submitted a new MP just looking at Depends rather than Build-Depends
<hallyn> can anyone tell me what is wrong with teh following:
<hallyn> AC_SEARCH_LIBS([cgmanager_get_pid_cgroup_abs_sync], [cgmanager], [have_abs_cgroups=yes], [have_abs_cgroups=no], [nih nih-dbus dbus-1])
<hallyn> configure is not adding the listed libraries when trying to build the test program...
<hallyn> i.e. no -lcgmanager
<hallyn> ah maybe i just had it in a place it didn't like
<hallyn> phew, yeah now it's all right
<bdmurray> mlankhorst: why did the xmir patch change in the xserver-xorg-video-ati upload in the trusty -proposed queue?
<Sarvatt> bdmurray: fix-0-crtc-crash.patch was touching the code xmir.patch touched and it needed updating
<Sarvatt> its just whitespace changes
<bdmurray> Sarvatt: I see, okay thanks!
<bdmurray> hallyn: is there an upstream samba bug for bug 1310919?
<ubottu> bug 1310919 in samba (Ubuntu Trusty) "pam_winbind krb5_ccache_type=FILE stopped working after 14.04 upgrade" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1310919
<hallyn> bdmurray: https://bugzilla.samba.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10490
<ubottu> bugzilla.samba.org bug 10490 in Winbind "pam_winbind fails with kerberos method = secrets and keytab" [Normal,New]
<bdmurray> hallyn: do you think we should wait and see what upstream does?
<hallyn> bdmurray: tough call.  it's prevent logins...  that's pretty critical.
<hallyn> otoh it'll suck to have to sru a patch replacement if upstream does it differently
<bdmurray> Laney: it looks like you referenced the wrong bug in your upload of apport to the precise -proposed queue. Bug 1007826 vs bug 1015788.
<ubottu> bug 1007826 in apport (Ubuntu Precise) "crash with AssertionError: file stream must be in binary mode when trying to save report to file" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1007826
<ubottu> bug 1015788 in apport (Ubuntu Quantal) "All the apport crash reports are now "*** Error: Invalid problem report" - TypeError: startswith first arg must be bytes or a tuple of bytes, not str" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1015788
<Laney> bdmurray: I don't think so, the second one is another go at fixing the first one, isn't it?
<Laney> I certainly tried to take both of those commits, hopefully successfully
<bdmurray> Laney: the diff contains no change to apport-cli
<Laney> why should it?
<Laney> The fixes were to launchpad.py
<bdmurray> The quantal changelog refers to "
<bdmurray> apport-cli: Unbreak "keep" option. (LP: #1007826)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1007826 in apport (Ubuntu Precise) "crash with AssertionError: file stream must be in binary mode when trying to save report to file" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1007826
<bdmurray> see https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/quantal/apport/quantal/revision/321
<bdmurray> and the change to apport-cli there
<Laney> Give me a second and I'll get the commits
<Laney> bdmurray: Hmm, I'm less sure that I took the right commit now
<Laney> Those are the ones I meant to take but a second look makes me think that they don't fix the reporter's problem
<Laney> Leave or reject it and I'll look again tomorrow or next week
<tsutsifr> Is there something I can target a debootstrap against that's smaller than ubuntu-minimal? I'm trying to create a tiny docker base-image, which still needs to be able to use apt-get -- but which (since it's a docker container) doesn't need to do things like boot, configure devices, or start a shell
<Laney> bdmurray: (if you can identify the correct commit then please do and upload that instead)
<Laney> (or as well as)
 * Laney goes away, goodnight
<tsutsifr> my current approach is creating a "ubuntu-minimal-docker" virtual package that Provides ubuntu-minimal, along with the transitive closure of packages it depends on, minus the actually-necessary ones, like apt and debconf
<cjwatson> tsutsifr: --variant=minbase
<cjwatson> (=> Priority: required + apt)
<tsutsifr> cjwatson: that gives me ubuntu's equivalent to debian's minbase, yes, but when I actually go to install anything packages for ubuntu, ubuntu-minimal and its various dependencies will end up being Depended on anyway, so doing that is kind of moot
<tsutsifr> *anything packaged for ubuntu
<mwhudson> hm, dist-upgrade in a chroot is complaining at me
<mwhudson> invoke-rc.d: initscript systemd-logind, action "start" failed.
<mwhudson> this looks like the sort of thing i don't care about in a chroot
<tsutsifr> and even then, it looks like minbase pulls in most of the same unnecessary stuff (initramfs, e2fs*, kmod, plymouth, sysvinit, udev, upstart...)
<sarnold> mwhudson: that's working as intended -- invoke-rc.d 'knows' some things in a chroot environment or container environment shouldn't be executed, the invoke-rc.d manpage has details
<mwhudson> sarnold: leaving packages unconfigured surely isn't intended though
<mwhudson> libpam-systemd:arm64 in this case
<mwhudson> is that just a packaging bug?
<tsutsifr> basically, it seems like there should really be a differentiation in Essential packages, between "Essential even when the OS is being effectively used as an exokernel by a single process" and "Essential only for autonomous system functioning"
<sarnold> mwhudson: hrm, indeed, they shouldn't be unconfigured afterwards, just not running..
<tsutsifr> and things that currently depend on ubuntu-minimal should probably depend on a virtual package that provides the former, not the latter
<mwhudson> can i pretend to dpkg that this package is in fact configured?
<mwhudson> i guess i can symlink it's postinst to true
<mwhudson> -'
<infinity> mwhudson: chroots should have a policy-rc.d in place that denies invoke-rc.d entirely, so you don't run into failed starts.
<mwhudson> infinity: oh right
<infinity> mwhudson: That's hardly the only package you'll have a problem with.
<mwhudson> oh right, i didn't actually make this chroot with schroot
#ubuntu-devel 2014-05-02
 * infinity grumps at rebooting to a dnsmasq eating 100% CPU and no name resolution.
<infinity> stgraber: ^-- Do you know what's up with that?
<mwhudson> this has been happening to me quite a lot too
<mwhudson> well not sure about the eating cpu part
<mwhudson> but resuming laptop and having no dns has been frequent
<mwhudson> (until killall dnsmasq, which seems to make resolvconf just put the remove nameservers in /etc/resolv.conf)
<infinity> I killed dnsmasq, unplugged network, replugged network, and got a fresh dnsmasq that wasn't broken.
<stgraber> infinity: yes, new dnsmasq is broken
<stgraber> bug 1313393
<ubottu> bug 1313393 in dnsmasq (Ubuntu) "dnsmasq lockup at 100% cpu" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1313393
<stgraber> Simon Kelley appears to be on it
<Ryan_Lane> barry: ImportError: No module named _sysconfigdata_nd <-- virtualenv package in 14.04 is broken
<Ryan_Lane> any plans on this being fixed? it's not great having to use pip to install a working virtualenv
<Ryan_Lane> hm. this may be related to something being locked in config management
<Ryan_Lane> indeed. user error. ignore me
<xnox> rsalveti: http://people.canonical.com/~xnox/gcc-i686-linux-android_4_amd64.deb
<xnox> rsalveti: but i can't build it in the archive, getting ice from compiler whilst bootstrapping...
 * sarnold rubs his eyes .. i686 .. amd64 .. linux .. android ..
<sarnold> surely it must just be a bad dream
<xnox> don't worry it fails bootstrap with ubuntu toolchain, builds fine with aosp provided official c compiler..... wait trusting trust
<pitti> Good morning
<pitti> slangasek: poll> I didn't see an option to convert to local timezones (but I didn't create an account)
<pitti> slangasek: yes, these are meant to be London times as I wrote; I left out the ones which definitively don't overlap between EU and US (unless you want to meet in the middle of the night)
<pitti> hallyn: the scipts and sourcing of /etc/default/cgmanager are a  bit awkward, but that can all be translated pretty much 1:1
<pitti> hallyn: as a guide, I recommend reading man systemd.unit and systemd.service (they explain the available options in an unit file), and perhaps even more look at existing ones
<pitti> hallyn: e. g. for cgmanager you don't need to specify any dependencies, the default basic.target (usual stuff mounted etc.) is fine
<pitti> hallyn: as for the cgm_extra_mounts= bits, I recommend putting those into config files; systemd units are not conffiles, and upstart jobs really really should have never been
<slangasek> pitti: morning - yeah, I figured out that was the case, so filled it out accordingly :)
<infinity> It hurt my brain a bit to convert to London times, and I have a clock that does it and everything.
<pitti> slangasek: I saw, thanks
<pitti> xnox: you already uploaded gvfs for plist in 1.20.1-1ubuntu2 :)
<pitti> xnox: anyway, gvfs' tests are broken with the new libgphoto2, I need to update them (same as with umockdev)
<infinity> pitti: BTW, don't know if you've been following backscroll in #debian-devel, but seems when you boot with systemd, /run/shm is no longer a thing.  Might be nice to JFDI a fix on that, so I can stop arguing with Tollef about it.
<Unit193> Yes, /run/shm doesn't exist for me.
<pitti> infinity: eek; yes, we'll need that
<pitti> at least a symlink to /dev/shm/
<pitti> infinity: what was Tollef's argument against that?
<pitti> infinity, Unit193: mind filing a bug (LP is ok)? I have my head full of debugging state for autopkgtest mess, and that's my #1 prio ATM
<infinity> pitti: Debian's wrong, everyone else uses /dev/shm, systemd is always right, we should just drop /run/shm and fix anything that references it instead of having a compat migration plan.
<infinity> pitti: Basically.
<infinity> pitti: I might have disagreed a fair bit on the conclusion.
<geser> doko__: Hi, is merging python-babel somewhere on your TODO list? Could you also take a look at bug #1299442 as I assume that it's fixed in Debian (run into this bug during a dist-upgrade to trusty). Or is it OK if I prepare the merge and possible SRU?
<ubottu> bug 1299442 in python-babel (Ubuntu) "UnknownLocaleError: unknown locale 'en'" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1299442
<pitti> infinity: argh, what was that site to grep all Debian source packages again?
<pitti> *tock* *tock* memory, start working!
<geser> http://sources.debian.net/ ?
<infinity> pitti: http://codesearch.debian.net/
<pitti> aah, that was it, tahnks
<pitti> infinity, Unit193: nevermind, already reported: debian bug 674755
<ubottu> Debian bug 674755 in systemd "systemd: tmpfs inconsistencies (/run/lock, /run/shm, /tmp)" [Normal,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/674755
<pitti> so indeed most of codesearch's results seem to be quirks for Debian using /run/shm, but still, having a compat symlink doesn't hurt
<infinity> pitti: I think at least a compat symlink for wheezy->jessie migrations and 14.04->16.04 migrations probably makes sense.  Discussing dropping it after, if literally everyone else uses /dev/shm and no one can come up with an argument for why we decided it might be nice to have it on another FS (or referenced from run) is a fine conversation to have later.
<infinity> pitti: Then again, if there *is* a valid reason for it to be on its own FS, inverting the mountpoint and link would be nice.
<pitti> infinity: it has always been its own tmpfs, it's just whether it was mounted on /dev/shm/ or /run/shm/
<infinity> (For the record, comments in code aside, glibc DTRT in either case, as long as both paths exists, and one is a link to the other)
<pitti> right, eglibc has /run/shm/ as an alternate fallback for the Debian case
<infinity> pitti: Err, right, sorry, it's its own FS, but maybe there we sane arguments for it not loving under udev's tmpfs.
<infinity> pitti: And maybe those arguments are long buried in the past.
<pitti> infinity: I think it was mostly from the time when some Debian people said "but we don't want udev"
<infinity> pitti: That glibc code you're reading is actually the kfreebsd patch.
<infinity> pitti: The linux path Just Works if the symlink is in place.
<infinity> (The linux code is horribly awful after that point, and I might sent a patch upstream tomorrow to tear out about 50 lines of nonsense, but at leas that bit works...)
<infinity> s/sent/send/
<slangasek> infinity: wasn't /run/shm a change that rleigh inflicted on us, deviating from upstream?
<infinity> slangasek: Yeah, but does anyone know why? :P
<slangasek> infinity: because he thought it was prettier
<infinity> If there are no valid arguments, I'm all for reverting the mountpoint back to /dev/ (as systemd does), but I still think a release cycle of grace period for a compat symlink is sane.
<slangasek> "shared memory is not a device"
<pitti> let's rename /etc/ to /config because it's prettier :)
<pitti> infinity: yes, agreed
<slangasek> infinity: but you might want to scan all your chroots before trying to switch this back, because I'm not sure the migration *to* /run/shm was ever finished correctly
<infinity> In fact, my buildds all have the inverted setup (mount in /dev, symlink in /run) because launchpad-buildd has a bug where the inverse explodes, and I'm too lazy to fix it. :P
<slangasek> I didn't mean just buildd chroots fwiw
<infinity> slangasek: Yeah, how this will work for chroot upgrades is a touchy thing.  And, in fact, that's touched on in the initscripts postinst comments of doom.
<infinity> slangasek: For real systems, it's likely cake.  Reboot into systemd, it mount /dev/shm, does a check on the state of /run/shm, and if it's a directory, wipes it and replaces with symlink.
<infinity> Which, handily, would DTRT if you rebooted back into sysvinit or upstart, I think, as they'd just mount the inverted way on the next boot.  I think.
<infinity> But anything with a more manual chroot mount setup is touchier.
<infinity> Err, /run/shm wouldn't be a directory, obviously, it's in run.
<infinity> But you know what I mean.
<infinity> systemd would just create symlink and done.
<infinity> (on a real system)
<infinity> I'm obviously too tired to discuss this sanely. :P
<pitti> infinity: for "real" systems there's no migration issue really, as both /dev/ and /run/ are (dev)tmpfses
<Saviq> pitti, hey, question about autopkgtest - what's the recommended approach when you have mocks (built during dpkg-buildpackage, but not packaged) that you need for autopkgtest, is it better to package them in a foo-tests package or so, or build them during the test run itself?
<pitti> and for chroots that should just do [ -e /run/shm ] || ln -s /dev/shm /run/shm
<infinity> pitti: Yeah, that was my "I'm obviously too tired" comment.
<pitti> Saviq: if it's cheap to build (which I assume), use "needs-build" and use the built mocks
<pitti> Saviq: err, "build-needed"
<Saviq> pitti, huh, that's contrary to DEP-8 :)
<pitti> Saviq: if that builds too much, your debian/tests/foo can also do something like make -C tests/mocks/ to only build what you actually need for the test
<Saviq> pitti, yeah, the latter was what I was thinking of
<pitti> Saviq: DEP-8 makes no prescription for that
<infinity> And if it's really expensive, ship foo-test.
<infinity> Which is what I plan to do with glibc, once it can actually run the testsuite out of tree (getting there!)
<pitti> Saviq: we use packaged installed tests for packages like glib where building everything again would be too expensive
<Saviq> pitti, I'm about unity8 here, a full build took ~12 mins on LP
<Saviq> pitti, that considered cheap?
<pitti> Saviq: but hopefully you don't need to build the full unity for just the mocks?
<Saviq> pitti, sure, it would take even less for the mocks
<pitti> Saviq: I take it it will take much longer on armhf
<pitti> Saviq: if you can do a partial build, that's definitively preferred
<Saviq> pitti, ~21 mins
<Saviq> for a full build
<pitti> -tests packages are by and large clutter
<Saviq> yeah, that's what I thought
<Saviq> I think building only the mocks will only be like â of the time
<Saviq> ok, going that route then
<Saviq> pitti, thanks! could I ask you for a review once I have the autopkgtest MP'd?
<pitti> Saviq: sure!
<Saviq> great, thanks
<zyga> pitti: excellent write-up and progress on the systemd sprint, it was very fun to read (brings back memories from fun and productive sprints)
<pitti> zyga: thanks :)
<ogra_> pitti, heh, was that sprint photo taken by a painter ?
<pitti> ogra_: heh, that was a fun one; we couldn't find a place where to put the mobile phone so that it would see us all
<pitti> ogra_: so we used a laptop and cheese; apparently that laptop's  webcam was crappy, or he still had some "oil painting" effect enabled..
<ogra_> lol
<ari-tczew> xnox: you have updated one B-D in package libzrtpcpp (2.0.0-3build2) (http://launchpadlibrarian.net/155442202/libzrtpcpp_2.0.0-3build1_2.0.0-3build2.diff.gz), is it still necessary, or can be dropped?
<cjwatson> Logan_: I've added you now, thanks
<MacSlow> What's the command-du-jour to get from cozy 14.04 to utopic... the usual suspects don't work (yet)?
<geser> MacSlow: sensible-editor /etc/apt/sources.list
<MacSlow> geser, I feared that answer :)
<pitti> MacSlow: sudo sed -i 's/trusty/utopic' /etc/apt/sources.list :)
<pitti> MacSlow: sorry, sudo sed -i 's/trusty/utopic/' /etc/apt/sources.list
<mvo> MacSlow: or wait a tiny bit and I upload a new release upgrader
<MacSlow> pitti, that's even more terrifying ;)
<pitti> MacSlow: but noninteractive
<MacSlow> mvo, ah... yeah, that sounds safer :)
<mvo> MacSlow: tiny bit in relative terms, but I hope to get it ready by end-of-today
<mvo> MacSlow: :)
<pitti> until then: schroot FTW :)
<MacSlow> pitti, geser: I'm so used to dog-fooding our (ui-)tools, I don't do things manually anymore
<MacSlow> mvo, the time-resolution-granularity of days is enough of a hint for me
<mvo> MacSlow: great, I had hoped for that
<pitti> ev_: oh, nice! https://www.oasis-open.org/news/pr/iso-and-iec-approve-oasis-amqp-advanced-message-queuing-protocol
<ev_> wow, that's one of those things where my first reaction was, "wait, it wasn't already a standard?"
<ev_> pitti: how's the dep8 rearchitecture coming along?
<ev_> are you enjoying working with swift and rabbit?
<pitti> ev: was a bit stalled while Antonio was reviewing my patches so far, and I was working on the current utopic autopkgtest bugs
<pitti> ev: but he pulled all my patches now, so I can contine (however, utopic autopkgtest regressions will still keep me a bit busy)
 * ev nods
<pitti> ev: yes, I do; it's quite lovely, AMQP is so much easier than having to endure the jenkins pain
<ev> yeah, tell me about it
<ev> thanks to doanac we've killed Jenkins in the airline
<ev> entirely a queue-based, microservice architecture now
<zyga> is it normal for gnome-control-center to show 13.10 in the 'details' tab (system info?)
<zyga> on 14.10
<zyga> oh, nice!
<Laney> Don't know about normal, but it is known that that's wrong
<Laney> It needs manually fixing and nobody's done it yet
<pitti> shows 14.10 here
<zyga> pitti: unity or gnome?
<pitti> zyga: oh, unity
<zyga> pitti: yeah, I though the fork might be responsible
<zyga> pitti: probably shows 13.10 in 14.04 as wel
<zyga> well
<pitti> odd, why would that not just use /etc/os-release..
<seb128> pitti, because it's a logo/image not text
<zyga> ohhh
<zyga> wtf? :)
<seb128> zyga, use unity ;-)
<pitti> WTF indeed -- a logo for a version number?
<seb128> pitti, the ubuntu circle on top of it is in the same image
<zyga> seb128: I ususally do
<zyga> seb128: I wanted to see what gnome looks like lately
<seb128> pitti, but patches are welcome if you want to change that to be dynamic and align a logo for the circle and some text with the right styling bellow
<seb128> it's just that nobody got to do that
<seb128> (since trusty we generate the logo at buildtime at least)
<zyga> oh
<pitti> seb128: right, the ubuntu version seems to do just that?
<seb128> pitti, yes, darkxst_ said he was going to backport those changes to g-c-c
<darkxst_> seb128, pitti yes I will try look at fixing that this weekend
<xnox> pitti: something is even more weird with adt though, e.g. dbus-test-runner migrated despite failing its test, and it's build-deps & build-essential are not installed whilst executing the test => but needed as it does compile tests.
<zyga> xnox: who's the best person to talk to about CI loop failures?
<zyga> xnox: I had strange failures that block packages that work out okay in debian
<zyga> ohhh
<xnox> ari-tczew: given the version number, it was simply done to force that rebuild into dep-wait & rebuild only after that one is rebuild. it's save to drop that change. Note however, i had to make a change to libzrtpcpp in unicorn and it is a valid one http://launchpadlibrarian.net/174142130/libzrtpcpp_2.0.0-3build2_2.0.0-3ubuntu1.diff.gz that is needed in debian as well.
<ari-tczew> xnox: are you going to merge that one? if not, I can do that. there are CVE fixes.
<xnox> zyga: ci loop failures => ask on #ubuntu-release to start the conversation.
<xnox> ari-tczew: i really should, and forward patch to debian to get it back into sync
<ari-tczew> xnox: ok so I'm leaving that one
<zyga> xnox: thanks
<pitti> xnox: jibel has a fix for the premature promotion, but not rolled out yet
<darkxst> pitti, any idea why modemmanager is calling upstart's initclt script when try to upgrade?
<darkxst> (under systemd)
<darkxst> dpkg bug perhaps?
<pitti> darkxst: yes, it's debian bug 683084 -- we need to merge sysvinit
<ubottu> Debian bug 683084 in sysv-rc "Make invoke-rc.d/update-rc.d systemd-aware" [Wishlist,Fixed] http://bugs.debian.org/683084
<pitti> darkxst: that's next on my list after I fix the "tar: unexpected EOF" breakage in autopkgtest's qemu runner
<pitti> (as that's hampering production)
<darkxst> pitti, ok
<xnox> ari-tczew: merge uploaded & change forwarded https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=746655
<ubottu> Debian bug 746655 in libzrtpcpp-dev "libzrtpcpp-dev: Missing dependency on libssl-dev" [Normal,Open]
<ari-tczew> ok
<mdeslaur> @pilot in
* udevbot changed the topic of #ubuntu-devel to: Trusty Final released! | Archive: Open | Devel of Ubuntu (not support or app devel) | build failures -> http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs/ | #ubuntu for support and discussion of lucid -> trusty | #ubuntu-app-devel for app development on Ubuntu http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment | See #ubuntu-bugs for http://bit.ly/lv8soi | Patch Pilots: mdeslaur
<shadeslayer> pitti: why am I getting emails from jenkins about failiures in https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/job/utopic-adt-python-qt4/4/? :P
<pitti> shadeslayer: because you did the last upload
<shadeslayer> I ... I did?
<pitti> shadeslayer: I restarted the test btw; it's the same bug I'm trying to work around for two days now (argh old qemu)
<shadeslayer> aha, the silly encoding issue in python qt4
<pitti> shadeslayer: accordingto https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/python-qt4/4.10.4+dfsg-1ubuntu1 ?
<shadeslayer> pitti: right :)
<pitti> shadeslayer: nevertheless, not your fault (jibel and I also get all failure mails, I'm checking them all)
<shadeslayer> cheers! :)
<shadeslayer> bdmurray: got your email about kubuntu-driver-manager crashing, there have been 2 crashes, and both lack a stacktrace
<hallyn> pitti: the upstart jobs are not conffiles.  the cgm_extra_mounts in the upstart job is the default, to be overridden by /etc/default/cgmanager, which is the conffile
<hallyn> pitti: yes cgmanager doesn't have manyd ependences, but other things depend on it (like lxc), and in particular the curious interaction is that between cgmanager and cgproxy...  but ok i'll force myself to address it at some point
<hallyn> pitti: thanks for the pointers to systemd.unit and systemd.service
<pitti> hallyn: yes, so I guess one should depend on the other then?
<pitti> hallyn: I hope we can get rid of this stopping of cgproxy in cgmanager.conf and replace that with proper dependencies?
<pitti> hallyn: they are conffiles, as they are in /etc/init/; but what I really meant is that we don't want to encourage users to edit them
<hallyn> pitti: not sure.  the issue is that in a container we want only cgroxy to run;  on a post-3.13 kernel host we want cgmanager only;  on older kernels we want both cgmanager and cgproxy.
<hallyn> so in upstart we want to just have cgmanager be the thing you have to know about and it starts the right thing
<hallyn> yes we don't want people to edit them
<pitti> hallyn: oh, so one doesn't depend on the other, they just have different startup conditions?
<hallyn> we want people to override them with /etc/default/
<hallyn> no cgproxy does have to start after cgmanager, if they're both going to run
<pitti> ah, "start on started cgmanager"
<hallyn> pitti: but in any case, *that* is a work item for a bit later, the more urgent thing for right now is to straighten out the session cgroups in containers in utopic
<hallyn> pitti: i just got up, gonna have some coffee, then set up a clean environment ot test in again. will you be around for another hour or two?
<pitti> hallyn: I will, but today I'm still in firefighting mode, and thus I'm not in the mood of much else :/
<hallyn> pitti: ok, np, i'll not bug you then :)  shouldn't be too hard to find the root cause.  have fun!  er i mean, good luck!  er i mean, ...  \o
<cjwatson> It's surprising how long a system can survive while not being able to exec any processes
<cjwatson> I set an i386 LXC container to unconfined on my amd64 system, and tried to start it; it promptly installed the qemu-x86_64 binfmt handler and none of my ordinary binaries were executable
<hallyn> you know, i seem to recall seeing that a few years ago, but i forget why.
<cjwatson> I had chroots around, but couldn't use sudo from them because LD_LIBRARY_PATH isn't allowed on setuid executables
<hallyn> if only we had a binfmt namespace :)
<cjwatson> quite
<cjwatson> I was able to escape without rebooting though
<hallyn> that might be worth a blog post with details
<cjwatson> execute ssh from an i386 chroot (with LD_LIBRARY_PATH set appropriately) to connect to the container I'd just started, which of course was working fine
<cjwatson> then sudo inside that and update-binfmts --disable qemu-x86_64
<cjwatson> it might be, although I just wasted half an hour on this instead of what I was supposed to be doing :)
<hallyn> yeah i have an insane fear of running containers unconfined
<cjwatson> what I was actually trying to do was to be able to mount -o proc none $chroot/proc (etc.) inside the container
<jpds> An unconfined container is not a container.
<cjwatson> I don't care, in this case
<cjwatson> well not much
<cjwatson> I mean, in this instance I care that it broke my binfmt namespace :-), but I don't care about the security of the container right now
<cjwatson> I guess I actually want lxc-container-default-with-nesting
<cjwatson> ... except that doesn't work either
<hallyn> cjwatson: right it's only for nesting lxc.  you want to generalize that one to allow mounting proc anywhere
<hallyn> i've considered having a menu-driven set of apparmor bits for the many things ppl might want to do...
<cjwatson> do you happen to have an example lying around?
<hallyn> though -with-nesting and -with-mounting seem to usually do what ppl want
<cjwatson> what I'm specifically doing is running launchpad-buildd in a container
<hallyn> cjwatson: http://paste.ubuntu.com/7379730/  should work...
<cjwatson> which wants to run http://paste.ubuntu.com/7379736/
<hallyn> cjwatson: eh,
<cjwatson> I guess I need a few more bits; is it possible to just say "honestly I don't care for this container, let it mount anything anywhere"?
<hallyn> cjwatson: just add "mount,' to the profile
<cjwatson> ok, great, thanks
<hallyn> cjwatson: http://paste.ubuntu.com/7379738/
<cjwatson> mount: proc is not a block device
<cjwatson> or for "sudo mount -o proc none /path/to/proc": "mount: special device none does not exist"
<cjwatson> hallyn: ^- that's with http://paste.ubuntu.com/7379780/ in /etc/apparmor.d/lxc/lxc-default-mount-anything, I ran "service apparmor reload", and http://paste.ubuntu.com/7379784/ in /var/lib/lxc/precise-lpdev/config - did I miss something?
<bdmurray> shadeslayer: I'm looking into it, thanks
<shadeslayer> bdmurray: cheers :)
<mvo> MacSlow: I uploaded the utopic release upgrader now so once that hits the archive you will be able to upgrade - at last if the package startpar is installable then
<hallyn> cjwatson: hm, that looks ike it should work
<MacSlow> mvo, ok... thanks for the heads up
<bdmurray> mvo: hi, have you seen bug 1310891?
<ubottu> bug 1310891 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu Trusty) "cached meta-release file should not be saved if it is html" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1310891
<hallyn> stgraber: ^ any idea?
<hallyn> cjwatson: huh, worked for me
<hallyn> i did "stop lxc; start lxc" rather than apparmor reload,
<cjwatson> I'll try that
<cjwatson> hallyn: no, still the same thing - where could I look to debug this?
<hallyn> cjwatson: what does /proc/self/attr/current show in the container?
<hallyn> d'oh
<hallyn> cjwatson: mount -t proc, not mount -o proc :)
<cjwatson> oh whoops
<cjwatson> yeah, that's fine, sorry for the idiocy :)
<hallyn> phew :)  sanity restored
<cjwatson> (and "lxc-container-default-mount-anything (enforce)", FWIW)
<mvo> bdmurray: good morning! let me check
<mvo> bdmurray: yeah, totally agreeed, let me work on a fix
<Logan_> cjwatson: can you please do a full requeue on hdf5?
<cjwatson> Logan_: you mean on package-import?
<Logan_> yeah
<cjwatson> Logan_: don't have access, try xnox
<cjwatson> ogra_: http://people.canonical.com/~cjwatson/tmp/lp-livefs-building.png - glorious success may be distantly visible from here
<Logan_> cjwatson: ah, apologies
<ogra_> wheee !!!
 * ogra_ hugs cjwatson ... thats awesome !!!!
<Logan_> xnox: wanna do a full requeue on hdf5 for me? :)
<cjwatson> still a fair bit of UI coding to go but it's definitely getting there now
<ogra_> yeah, looks great
<xnox> Logan_: no, package-importer is stopped at the moment.
<Logan_> oh, really?
<xnox> Logan_: due to utopic importing.
<Logan_> gotcha
<xnox> Logan_: why else we would have 800 outstanding jobs? =) http://package-import.ubuntu.com/status/
<Logan_> because UDD is broken? :P
<xnox> Logan_: hm, actually it is running.
<xnox> Logan_: right, it was started on the 28th. I'd rather wait for it to process backlog.
<Logan_> ok
<hallyn> stgraber: should liblxc1 be depending on (cgmanager | cgroup-lite)
<hallyn> bc i can't right now easily test with cgroup-lite...
<hallyn> also i suppose i should look into getting rid of cgroup-lite now that cgroupfs-mount (based on cgroup-lite) is in debian
<stgraber> hallyn: so I thought about doing that, but this would have had the side effect that anyone using libvirt or who already had LXC installed wouldn't get cgmanager
<hallyn> recommends?
<hallyn> Depends: (cgroup-lite | cgmanager) \n Recommends: cgmanager ?
<pitti> mterry: I have to reopen bug 1315185; thanks for the initial fix!
<ubottu> bug 1315185 in deja-dup (Ubuntu) "pass in trusty, but fails ADT tests in utopic" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1315185
<pitti> mterry: sorry, it seems adt-britney is horribly buggy ATM :( (we need jibel's fix rolled out)
<mterry> pitti, guh
<stgraber> hallyn: that would probably do the trick, yes
<stgraber> hallyn: I'll do the update to the git packaging and do a daily build
<hallyn> cool, thanks
<mdeslaur> @pilot out
* udevbot changed the topic of #ubuntu-devel to: Trusty Final released! | Archive: Open | Devel of Ubuntu (not support or app devel) | build failures -> http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs/ | #ubuntu for support and discussion of lucid -> trusty | #ubuntu-app-devel for app development on Ubuntu http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment | See #ubuntu-bugs for http://bit.ly/lv8soi | Patch Pilots:
<mterry> pitti, do we have a nice wiki page explaining the best way to run adt tests locally?
<mterry> The proximate fix here is easy (add dbus-x11 as a test dep) but want to make sure that's all
<mterry> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/AutomatedTesting/AutoPackageTesting
<Laney> I've been using http://packaging.ubuntu.com/html/auto-pkg-test.html#executing-the-test prepare-testbed / run-adt-test
<Laney> but I found out earlier that this isn't always the same as what jenkins does
<pitti> Laney: right, that changed since utopic, I need to get that updated
<Laney> you mean the document or the behaviour of run-adt-test?
<pitti> mterry: ^
<pitti> Laney: the document; run-adt-test is obsolete
<Laney> ah
<pitti> mterry, Laney: /usr/share/doc/autopkgtest/README.running-tests.gz is now the "official" documentation how to run stuff
<Laney> shame, it was quite easy to use
<pitti> Laney: yes, but run-adt-test had quite some limitations
<Laney> I haven't grasped running adt-run directly properly yet
<pitti> Laney: but the new one isn't really that difficult either
<pitti> the biggest difficulty is that we don't yet have utopic cloud images
<Laney> /current exists now
<pitti> (but that would affect both the old and the new system)
<pitti> ooh, does it?
<pitti> nice!
<Laney> yep!
<Laney> so what's the way to set up a fresh VM with the new way?
<pitti> so, something like
<pitti> adt-buildvm-ubuntu-cloud -v -o /my/dir/for/VMs
<pitti> you might need -r utopic if you are still on trusty
<pitti> and optiionally -a i386 for selecting an arch
<pitti> so
<pitti> adt-buildvm-ubuntu-cloud -v -r utopic -a amd64 -o /my/dir/for/VMs
<pitti> if you run apt-cacher-ng, this is also useful: -p http://10.0.2.2:3142
<pitti> and then
<pitti> adt-run deja-dup --- qemu /my/dir/for/VMs/adt-utopic-amd64-cloud.img
<pitti> Laney, mterry: ^ that's how jenkins does it now
<pitti> Laney, mterry: but if your test doesn't need particular privileges, you can also test in a schroot (everyone has that, right?)
<pitti> adt-run deja-dup --- schroot utopic
<mterry> pitti, I got it -- I'm using chroot pointing at my pbuilder chroot
<pitti> you can also test a local package, and have that built first, see README.running-tests.gz
<hallyn> stgraber: so should libpam-systemd:amd64 be all i need to have logins be placed into cgroups?
<pitti> mterry: heh, that works, too
<Laney> I tried with schroot and I think it had the same build-needed problem
<Laney> (can that be?)
<mterry> pitti, hey...  so deja-dup has autopilot tests but I could never figure out how to get them working in adt...  I assume that's gotten better?
<pitti> mterry: nothing changed in that regard recently; but I wasn't aware that it isn't working
<xnox> pitti: why did the dependencies changed? as in why are "build-essential & build-deps" are not kept for jobs that declare "needs-building" ?
<hallyn> well and libsystemd-login0:amd64
<pitti> mterry: have a look at shotwell: autopilot-sandbox-run autopilot_tests
<mterry> pitti, uh..  I can't remember exact issue, but I think I just had some difficulty getting X and such to work in adt.  But if shotwell does it, I can steal their harness
<pitti> mterry: autopilot-sandbox-run does the gory details of what needs to happen with xvfb and dbus, so you mostly just need xvfb and dbus-x11 and autopilot-desktop
<pitti> mterry: autopilot-sandbox-run is the harness, and it has existed for a long time now; but I guess it isn't well-known
<pitti> mterry: and yes, it took us a whole afternoon to figure out, it's quite tricky with xvfb
<mterry> pitti, No, I remember that.  I had problems running it for some reason.  Will re-examine since I'm futzing with it here
<pitti> xnox: because we don't use the null runner any more, and each test/build gets a fresh VM
<pitti> xnox: if you need the build depends in your test, you need to test-depend on @builddeps@
<xnox>  pitti ah @builddeps@ is what i am after then! and that includes build-essential?
<pitti> xnox: in fact, one of deja-dup or dbus-test-runner seemed to build the pacakge twice -- once with needs-build, and another time with "make' in the test
<pitti> xnox: yes
<xnox> pitti: right, indeed then needs-build can be dropped, and @builddeps@ be used.
<xnox> Laney: ^ now we know.
<Laney> I did know
<xnox> Laney: i didn't =( =)
<Laney> the thing I didn't know whas about the removal of build-deps from build-needed
<Laney> but that is actually quite clear in the spec
<pitti> xnox: ah, so it was dbus-test-runner apparently; right, should work without needs-build
<Laney> it only does make check, not make
<pitti> yeah, just with -null we couldn't enforce that
<pitti> (and -null had quite a few more problems and also required this whole set of additionla scripts around it, which is why we wanted to abandon it)
<Laney> I have a weird feeling it's testing the built tree though
<xnox> pitti: are adt VMs running in US timezone or UTC? or no useful clock at all?
<pitti> btw, I think I fixed the weird "tar: unexpected EOF" thing now, so tests should not fail any more due to that
<pitti> xnox: let me check
<pitti> xnox: it copies the host's timezone
<pitti> alderamin: America/New_York
<pitti> aldebaran: Etc/UTC
<xnox> pitti: yeah, my job was on alderamin.
<pitti> albali: Etc/UTC
<pitti> wazn: Etc/UTC
<pitti> but that "copy from host" behaviour hasn't changed
<pitti> maybe the host timezones changed recently
<pitti> xnox: if you need a particular one, it's probably best to export TZ= in your test?
<pitti> hm, what's wrong with ubiquity!?
<pitti> oh, uninstallable on amd64
<pitti> mterry, Laney: oh, for completeness: jenkins runs against -proposed, so if you want to do that, run "adt-run <package> -U --apt-pocket=proposed --- ..."
<pitti> hm, dholbach already offline
<pitti> I'll see to catch him next week to get http://packaging.ubuntu.com/html/auto-pkg-test.html updated
<Laney> I think that's auto deployed from the guide
<Laney> in bzr
<Laney> (is it?)
<pitti> so uninstallable libtimezonemap1 seems to break quite a lot ATM
 * pitti binNEWs it to put it out of its misery
<xnox> pitti: no, i want job-logs and console-logs have sanity =) when i view the adt job artifacts.
<xnox> pitti: which are comparable across different runners.
<xnox> pitti: there is no reason to use New-York timezone =) on build slaves.
<xnox> e.g. console ouput says - adt-run [2014-05-02 11:52:40]: version @devel@, yet jenkins job started at (02-May-2014 15:52:39) which is mildly hallarious =)
<pitti> xnox: heh, yes; I'll create an RT to have it changed
<xnox> Laney: i wonder if the test is now busted, and should actually just be "#!/bin/sh true" and just rely on needs-building, cause i bet the directory is not RW either.
<xnox> pitti: do you have some inside ways to inspect what http://d-jenkins.ubuntu-ci:8080/view/Utopic/view/AutoPkgTest/job/utopic-adt-dbus-test-runner/ARCH=amd64,label=adt/11/console is actually stuck doing?
<hallyn> stgraber: dangit, now with lxc-default-with-nesting profile and lxc.mount.auto=cgroup:mixed, and cgroup-lite on host but no cgmanager, logins give me:
<hallyn> An error occurred while mounting /sys/fs/cgroup.
<hallyn> keys:Press S to skip mounting or M for manual recovery
<hallyn> hitting 'S' proceeds just fine, all cgroups are mounted
<hallyn> so why is mountall doing that
<xnox> pitti: i am failing to parse http://d-jenkins.ubuntu-ci:8080/view/Utopic/view/AutoPkgTest/job/utopic-adt-bzr/ARCH=amd64,label=adt/1/ it appears fully passed to me....
<xnox> oh stderr output?
<hallyn> well removing the line from /lib/init/fstab works, but since there is something mounted on /sys/fs/cgroup i would expect mountall to ignore it
<xnox> hallyn: how is /sys/fs/cgroup mounted? ans is it racing with mountall?
<xnox> hallyn: what are the options used? if all are the same, it shouldn't matter if mountall mounted it or somebody else did.
<hallyn> xnox: 77 72 0:36 / /sys/fs/cgroup ro,relatime - tmpfs cgroup_root ro,size=10240k,mode=755
<hallyn> it's mounted by lxc before init ever starts
<hallyn> then under that mount are one (bind) mount per cgroup
<hallyn> so is mountall objecting bc it is called 'cgroup_root' instead of 'none'?
<xnox> hallyn: it's objecting to it being ro, and it remounts it rw.
<hallyn> but its optiona
<xnox> hallyn: because raisons =)
<hallyn> l
<xnox> hallyn: it's optional, in a sense that it may be missing. however when it is not missing, it will try to remount it rw.
<xnox> slangasek: what was the right way to make mountall not do silly things to things that are already mounted ^
<xnox> hallyn: lxc could write out it ro into /etc/fstab inside container? or is that a no-no
<hallyn> as i recall there wasn't a right way, and i've always disagreed (and slangasek disagreed with me :) about that behavior :)
<hallyn> yeah i don't want it to have to mess with /lib/init/fstab - that is so 11.10
<hallyn> otoh,
<hallyn> there's really no reason why *that* mount needs to be ro
<stgraber> so why is /sys/fs/cgroup ro to begin wtih?
<hallyn> the cgroupfs mounts, yes, but not that one
<hallyn> stgraber: 'an abundance of caution' by Christian i think
<hallyn> lemme rebuild and see if changing that fixes it
<stgraber> right, just make it rw, problem solved, it's space restricted anyway and the user is root so nothing prevents them from remounting or from mounting another tmpfs on top of it
<pitti> xnox: dbus-test-runner> yes, I can ssh into the thing and look
<pitti>      |-sh---su---sh---with-bustle---make---bash---bash---make---make---bash---make---bash---bash---test-libdbustes---gtester-+-lt-t+
<pitti>      |                                                                                                                       `-{gma+
<pitti> hmm, not that helpful
 * xnox *chuckles* 
<xnox> i'm glad Laney is TIL now =)
<Laney> is it producing a test-suite.log?
<pitti> there's nothing using noticeable CPU
<pitti> Laney: apparently not
<xnox> i ponder if there is a run-away dbus process or some such
<xnox> test-dbus-out-of-every-buildd-even-implemented-by-tedg
<xnox> s/even/ever/
<xnox> =)
<pitti> xnox, Laney: http://paste.ubuntu.com/7380560/ in case that helps
<pitti> yes, two zombie dbus-daemons
<tedg> We had some issues with that, but then we even added a "clean up the runaway processes process" :-/
<tedg> Perhaps we just need to run it all under a session Upstart.
<xnox> tedg: well, or under a cgroup from cgmanager.
<hallyn> gah.  he actually remounts it ro twice
<xnox> tedg: and kill cgroup at the end?
<tedg> xnox, That'd probably work.
<tedg> Is there like a libcgmanager?
<pitti> Laney, xnox: I really need to go AFK now; want me to kill that job and you run it locally in QEMU, or want me to just retry it?
<xnox> tedg: there is only libcgmanager.
<xnox> tedg: and dbus api.
<Laney> pitti: that's already a retry, feel free to kill it (would be good if you could get test-libdbustest-test.log first though)
<xnox> pitti: i've killed it once, i can kill it again. but if we kill it again, britney/adt will request it again no?
<pitti> xnox: not automatically
<pitti> ./tmp/apt0-build/dbus-test-runner-14.04.1+14.04.20140320/tests/test-libdbustest-test.log
<pitti> that's the only one
<Laney> anything useful in it?
<pitti> Laney: could be: http://paste.ubuntu.com/7380593/
<Laney> interesting
<pitti> ooh
<pitti> it seems to remember its full build directory in the test run
<pitti> so we might need to fully restore that in a new VM
 * pitti kills the VM for now
<hallyn> ok patch sent for that
<hallyn> stgraber: would you expect that logind could move me into a cgroup without cgmanager (with just /sys/fs/cgroup/* mounted)?
 * pitti bids good night, have a nice weekend everyone!
<stgraber> hallyn: yes
<stgraber> hallyn: and it did last I tried
<hallyn> desn't seem to be working for me.
<stgraber> hallyn: I just tried on a machine here which never had cgroup-lite or lxc installed and I'm in the right spot of the systemd cgroup as expected
<hallyn> stgraber: without cgmanager installed on the host, you get int eh right cgroup in a container?
<stgraber> hallyn: ah, not in the container, just checking on a host without cgmanager but with cgroup-lite installed
<stgraber> (was just confirming my systemd change worked as expected and it does)
<hallyn> for some reason in a container with cgroups mounte it's not workign.  (yes on the host it's workign for me)
<stgraber> hallyn: anything vaguely useful in /var/log/upstart/systemd-logind.log?
<hallyn> yes, for anyone who asks, something went weird with qemu utopic - i don't see where 2.0.0+dfsg-2ubuntu1 ever made it to utopic, and so i had pushed 2.0.0~rc1+dfsg-0ubuntu4 after that...  i dunno...  the new 2.0.0+dfsg-2ubuntu2 should straighten it out
<hallyn> yeah...
<hallyn> New session c1 of user ubuntu.
<hallyn> cgmanager: cgm_enter for controller=systemd, cgroup_path=user/1000.user/1.session/user/1000/c1.session, pid=476 failed: Escape request from different namespace requires a proxy
<hallyn> Removed session c1.
<hallyn> /proc/self/fd/9: 4: ulimit: error setting limit (Invalid argument)
<hallyn> but cgmanager is not running
<hallyn> nor is cgproxy.  what on earth?
<stgraber> hmm, well, it shouldn't ever hit that code unless cgm_connect succeeded...
<hallyn> oh maybe those are old
<hallyn> yeah the file doesn't exist on a new container
<hallyn> oooh!
<hallyn> the problem is that lxc is not mounting the name=systemd cgroup
<stgraber> that'd explain it
<hallyn> ok well maybe that also explains the issue with cgmanager - are you telling me taht
<hallyn> systemd-logind takes your path in name=systemd and uses that as the base for your new cgroup?
<hallyn> 4:name=systemd:/user/1000.user/1.session/user/1000.user/1.session/user/1000.user/c2.session
<slangasek> xnox, hallyn: the "optional" refers to it being optional because the filesystem support may be missing in the kernel, and if the filesystem is supported it's not considered optional at all.  As to the specifics of why mountall thinks the pre-existing mount is insufficient, I'm not sure; it certainly could be the mount name, or the ro status, it definitely won't be anything to do with the other mount options since today we *fail* to remount ...
<slangasek> ... filesystems on boot that were mounted with wrong options :)
<hallyn> right, it was ro status
<hallyn> we've updated lxc to not mount that ro, as it was rather silly
<hallyn> stgraber: ok, i think i've got it.  the problem is again that lxc is ignoring name=systemd (because it's not in /proc/cgroups presumably).
<hallyn> so init in container has 10:name=systemd:/user/1000.user/1.session
<hallyn> while all others are 9:perf_event:/lxc/u2
<hallyn> ok, so this is fixable.  phew.  and it wasn't cgmanager messing up.  phew.
<hallyn> but it is src/lxc/cgmanager messing up
<hallyn> the heck...  and heres a tiny memory leak in the code i have to change
<hallyn> stgraber: phew, with a patch to cgmanager and to lxc that's straightened out.
<infinity> Laney: I can't commit to the libtimzonemap bzr trunk, can you commit and tag my 0.4.3 upload?  Kthx.
<achiang> stgraber: out of curiosity, what desktop environment does edubuntu use?
<infinity> achiang: unity
<achiang> infinity: thx
<stgraber> achiang: we offer both Unity and gnome-flashback. Both are always installed and you may choose the default in the installer.
<achiang> stgraber: thanks!
<infinity> Or that. :)
<achiang> stgraber: i'm proxying a question for someone else -- is it possible to use unity + LTSP if the end client doesn't have very powerful graphics?
<achiang> s/possible/recommended/ ?
<stgraber> achiang: it may be possible though my experience so far is that GL over the network is a pain and only a very small subset of Intel cards can manage it. The others will do software rendering on the server side and stream the bitmaps over the network which you almost certainly don't want.
<stgraber> achiang: that's why even if you choose Unity as your desktop environment in Edubuntu, LTSP will always default to gnome-flashback
<achiang> stgraber: got it, thanks!
<rdz> hey all. i'm looking for the right channel to ask about writing upstart jobs. is this the place?
<infinity> rdz: A good  place to start is http://upstart.ubuntu.com/cookbook/
<rdz> infinity, thanks.. i already checked that and i couldn't find an answer to my problem there
<arges> hallyn: fyi i filed bug 1315530 about what we discussed. I think there may be qemu packaging fix in there as well
<ubottu> bug 1315530 in apport (Ubuntu) "apport-retrace doesn't work with qemu" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1315530
<tjaalton> a friend of mine claims that lts->lts upgrade removed mysql & owncloud including the data, which I find hard to believe..
<tjaalton> upgrade to trusty
<tjaalton> do-release-upgrade, needed -d to work
<hallyn> arges: so does it also happen when you launch a vm by hand using /usr/bin/qemu-system-x86_64 ?
<arges> hallyn: i can try that as well
<infinity> tjaalton: Needing -d to work is a feature, we don't offer lts->lts upgrades until the first point release is out.
<infinity> tjaalton: As for the removal of packages and all his data, that sounds pretty nasty.  A reproducer consisting of initial pre-upgrade package list would be nice.
<tjaalton> infinity: yeah I'm investigating it, having root to the machine helps..
<tjaalton> though it got rolled back to a previous snapshot already
<tjaalton> but at least owncloud was not from an official source
<infinity> tjaalton: Ahh, that doesn't help much then. :/
<dobey> how would an *upgrade* remove *any* data?
<tjaalton> right..
<infinity> tjaalton: If owncloud is being removed on upgrade due to conflicts or similar, and it's not our package, we can't fix if it has braindead maintainer scripts that wipe your data on removal.
<tjaalton> yeah I'll review those
<infinity> dobey: If an upgrade removes a package, and the package wipes data on remove (instead of purge), then you'd get there.
<dobey> oh i guess if maintainer scripts are insane, yeah
<arges> hallyn: same results
<dobey> infinity: even on purge, removing apache isn't going to remove all my web sites i configured in /srv/
<infinity> dobey: No, true.  But some packages assert stronger ownership over their data, and will purge certain bits of /var/lib (etc) on purge.  Which is sort of what "purge" means, so not entirely unheard of.
<infinity> dobey: But a do-release-upgrade never purges, only removes, so that point is moot.
<dobey> right
<tjaalton> hmm not owncloud to blame, it only has a simple postinst to reload apache
<infinity> tjaalton: There was a mention of mysql, though.  Is this owncloud data in a mysql DB?  And did removal of mysql-server do Very Bad Things?
<infinity> If so, that's a bug we *can* (and effin' should) fix.
<tjaalton> yeah it got migrated to the mysql backend aiui, the default one didn't perform
<infinity> I'm a silly sort of person that likes to think people read the output of do-release-upgrade and panic when it says "I'm about to remove your database server", but reality isn't so pleasant.
<tjaalton> well it's friday night and all.. and it wasn't really that critical a server
<dobey> hah yeah. it's like people complaining that ubuntuone got removed on upgrade. and i tell them "well you clicked the button to remove those packages, if it did."
<tjaalton> and he took a snapshot just in case
<infinity> tjaalton: +1 for the pre-upgrade snapshot.
<infinity> I look forward to a day when btrfs is trustworthy enough for us to do that sort of thing by default.
<infinity> (I'm not entirely unconvinced that we shouldn't have just shipped LVM by default on all systems a decade ago, and used cow LVM snapshots for upgrades...)
<tjaalton> this is a virtual machine, so it's a snapshot of the vm stage
<infinity> Yeah, VMs make this much simpler.
<infinity> They make everything else harder, but hey, at least you get some wins. :P
<tjaalton> so does d-r-u honour held packages?
<tjaalton> I'd guess not
<infinity> Possibly?
<infinity> It's really just a thin wrapper around python-apt, by default it would respect dpkg holds, but it's entirely possible that's been overridden on purpose too.
<tjaalton> yeah guess it's easier to just look at the source :P
#ubuntu-devel 2014-05-03
<rsalveti> xnox: getting:
<rsalveti> i686-linux-android-gcc: error trying to exec 'cc1': execvp: No such file or directory
<xnox> rsalveti: right, which matches the fact why it fails to build from source in a schroot.
<xnox> rsalveti: i really want to know why & how this works on my local development machine.
<xnox> rsalveti: i've poked doko to help me out, but he is afk until tuesday.
<mitya57> Mirv: did you get a chance to test the last two commits of lp:~kubuntu-packagers/kubuntu-packaging/qtwebkit-opensource-src?
<Laney> infinity: oops, thanks for fixing
<Mirv> mitya57: no, but it looks good. I'd like to sync with dbarth's plans to switch HTML5 apps developed with the SDK to Oxide, though, unless it looks like it'll take weeks for them to switch
<Mirv> that'd only leave those app store apps with 13.10 framework using qtwebkit, which is not too bad as no such new apps can be even uploaded anymore. the few OpenGL games should be updated to 14.04 then.
<mitya57> Mirv: OK. The main reason why I want qtwebkit update is that it'll allow me to drop pyqt5 and qtscript delta.
<hjd> Hello all :) I took a look at args4j which is one of the packages listed with build failures in Utopic. (https://launchpadlibrarian.net/173860294/buildlog_ubuntu-utopic-i386.args4j_2.0.27-1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz) It fails because it need a newer version maven-repo-helper, which has since the build was attempted been synced to Utopic. I tried locally and the package built fine, so I imagine a rebuild would sort this out. However, how can I
<hjd> request a rebuild, should I simply file a merge proposal where the only change is a changelog entry describing the issue?
<debfx> hjd: I've triggered a rebuild
<hjd> debfx: Thanks :)
<hjd> I found more packages which failed to build because they were started before the latest version of maven-repo-helper was synced. I only tried a couple locally, but they built fine. Could someone please trigger a rebuild of the following packages; maven-jar-plugin, maven-project-info-reports-plugin, disruptor, ini4j, jarjar-maven-plugin, jenkins-json, jenkins-winstone, libcommons-lang3-java, bsaf, libmiglayout-java, libswingx-java?
<Kano> hi, why are patches hidden in the mesa diff?
<cjwatson> hjd: all retried, thanks
<Logan_> infinity: could I bug you for some help with porting a package to ppc64el?
<infinity> Logan_: Maybe.  Ask away, and I'll see if I know what you need. :P
 * infinity is having a lazy weekend for once.
<Logan_> okay, so, grisbi requires manually changing libtool files to add support for ppc64el (there's some issue with autoreconf, I forget what it was)
<Logan_> and usually that's foolproof, but this one complains about them being changed and says it has to run aclocal again
<Logan_> problem is, it tries to run aclocal-1.13 (with which the files were originally generated), which no longer exists in Utopic
<Logan_> so I don't know how to resolve this
<Logan_> also, this is only a problem when merging in the new upstream release from Debian unstable - the current version doesn't get mad if you change those files, and it builds fine on ppc64el
<Logan_> oh, the build log for the current one complains about aclocal-1.11 not being on the system, but it doesn't stop the build - this does
<infinity> Do you have a WIP you can give me?
<Logan_> what do you mean by that?
<infinity> Logan_: Your work-in-progress package.  Though, I guess it's just Debian + libtool patch, I can manage that here. :P
<Logan_> oh
<Logan_> infinity: bar branch lp:~logan/ubuntu/utopic/grisbi/wip
<Logan_> *bzr
<infinity> Logan_: So, FWIW, dh-autoreconf works fine for me.  Mind if I just upload that? :P
<Logan_> really?
<Logan_> awkz
<Logan_> I guess I only tried manually patching, given my lack of success with dh-autoreconf with the previous release
<Logan_> sure, go ahead :P
<infinity> Well, test build still going, but it seems fine.
<infinity> http://paste.ubuntu.com/7389232/
<infinity> And finished with no issues.
 * infinity uploads and forwards to Debian.
<Logan_> aight, thanks :)
<infinity> We'll see if that mysteriously fails on the buildds, but it worked locally. :P
<xnox> infinity: utopic is boring. can we upload apw's / yours initramfs-tools merge?
<infinity> xnox: apw can upload it himself, and will do so at some point soon.
<infinity> xnox: Also, I just gave you make 4.0, don't complain about boring.
<xnox> infinity: \o/
<xnox> infinity: i saw git 2.0 that was cool as well.
<infinity> Logan_: Bah, spoke too soon.  Breaks building arch:all.  Now to see if that's my fault or Debian's...
<Logan_> infinity: ah, yes, that was the issue I experienced locally
<Logan_> with an amd64 pbuilder, though o_O
<infinity> Logan_: Working on a fix.
<infinity> Fixed.
<infinity> Ugh, someone really need to optimize OptiPNG
<infinity> Or I need to remove it from my chroots.
<infinity> Or both.
<pkern> It might help if https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WubiGuide would no longer say that it's officially supported.
<directhex> infinity, doko, are you aware of any updates to the ppc64el mono port?
<infinity> directhex: I have a couple more patches that fix more testcases.
<infinity> directhex: But the last batch broke some things on ppc32be, so I sent them back to the drawing board.
<infinity> directhex: I have new-new ones now, need to test them.
<infinity> directhex: Let me attack that in a few minutes here, I've been putting it off. :P
 * infinity hits the power on his POWER machine and goes for a smoke.
#ubuntu-devel 2014-05-04
<xnox> pkern: it is supported in the scope listed on that wikipage.
<xnox> pkern: i specifically updated it with *bold* text to show what is supporter/working, and what isn't.
<infinity> directhex: If you missed it: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mono/3.2.8+dfsg-4ubuntu2
<Logan_> infinity: nice patch name :P
<lotuspsychje> TNX to all users who helped improved 14.04 its really great to work with!! Job welldone
<mitya57> pitti: Please drop owncloud-client test from Jenkins, the Debian maintainer removed debian/tests/ directory
<apw> xnox, infinity, yeah that is waiting on another merge which cjw is doing, it is a bit of a doozy
<vvv> How would one mirror ddebs.ubuntu.com? It does not look like that server runs rsync
<achernya> vvv: "clearly you should use wget. no failure modes"
<achernya> (I'm kidding. I'm hoping a mirrors-admin knows)
<sdfsd> Hi could anyone help me with this please ? http://askubuntu.com/questions/459654/ubuntu-14-04-drivers-for-broadcom-bcm43142
<sdfsd> Any ubutu driver expert here ?
<sdfsd> *ubuntu
<s1aden> sdfsd: an expert for the Broadcom BM43xxx ?
<sdfsd> yea please ?
<sdfsd> s1aden: ^
<sdfsd> First ... what is meant by Exec format error, when  I do modprobe ?
<pkern> xnox: Well, ok. Apparently it broke with an upgrade from 13.10 installed with wubi to 14.04. Given that the old wubi install link on ubuntu.com now gets redirected to /desktop I thought you stopped supporting it at all.
<sdsdf> s1aden: there ?
<sithlord48> what url do i use to import from github?  http://github.com/user/project does not seam to work.
<sithlord48> * import to launchpad *
<wgrant> sithlord48: https://github.com/USER/REPO.git
<fabio123> hi there
<fabio123> i dont0 understand yet how dbus works ... but id like to fix the plasma menubar in kde
<fabio123> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~indicator-applet-developers/unity-gtk-module/trunk.14.04/view/head:/src/main.c
<fabio123> unity-gtk module uses /com/canonical/unity/gtk/window as a dbus path but there is also /com/canonical/appmenu
<mwhudson> anyone know anything about pam_systemd?
<mwhudson> it is causing me problems with ssh
<mwhudson> (i get pam_systemd(sshd:session): Failed to stat runtime dir: No such file or directory in auth.log)
<amigamagic> is this the right channel to report a package with a bug fixed in svn but not updated yet in ubuntu repositories?
<rbasak> amigamagic: usually you'd just file a bug for that
<rbasak> amigamagic: with links to the svn commit and upstream bug if there is one
<amigamagic> ok, the bug is for abiword and it has been fixed here from february: http://bugzilla.abisource.com/show_bug.cgi?id=13596
<ubottu> bugzilla.abisource.com bug 13596 in Editing - Key/Click Bindings "Shift-control text selection no longer works" [Normal,Resolved: fixed]
<rbasak> amigamagic: I'd consider such a bug triaged if just the reporter confirms that it is outstanding being fixed in Ubuntu. #ubuntu-bugs is the channel for triaging support to get the bug marked as Triaged if you need someone to do that for you.
<rbasak> amigamagic: finally, you can get it landed yourself through the sponsorship queue, if you can attach packaging changes (eg. debdiff with quilt patch) to the bug. In that case, subscribe ~ubuntu-sponsors to the bug to review it.
<rbasak> amigamagic: (assuming cherry-picking is the best option for Ubuntu, rather than syncing or merging a more recent release, etc.
<rbasak> )
<rbasak> amigamagic: HTH. Sorry I have to run right now.
<amigamagic> thanks rbasak
<amigamagic> to me that software is completely unusable with that bug unfixed, being that I use CTRL-SHIFT-CURSOR combo 90% of the time to select text in a word processor.
<amigamagic> btw, what "a bug triaged" means?
<Logan_> it means that a bug supervisor has looked over the bug and determined that it has enough information to be acted on by a developer (and marked accordingly)
<amigamagic> thanks Logan_
<Logan_> no problem :)
<rbasak> amigamagic: sounds like you might additionally want https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates#Procedure then, if you think it's a high enough bug that an SRU is justified
 * rbasak runs out again
<teward> rbasak: you may want to watch #ubuntu-bugs
<teward> (relevant convo in progress)
#ubuntu-devel 2015-04-27
<teward> did the old issue somewhere around 2012/2013 or something where backports can't build-dep on backports ever get fully resolved?
<cjwatson> teward: Yes, that was https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/888665
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 888665 in Launchpad itself "Backports can't build-depend on other backports" [High,Fix released]
<teward> cjwatson: ahhh, nice, glad to see that's resolved, that put a nail in the coffin for ZNC backports for some time (since the swig libraries are never new enough xD)
<aeoril> infinity you still need a tech writer?
<pitti> Good morning
<mightyiam> Yo what codename do I use for upgrading to devel, please?
<pitti> mightyiam: that's the thing we are all waiting for :)
<pitti> there is no devel series yet, it's blocked on getting a name from sabdfl
<mightyiam> pitti, thank you
<pitti> doko_, cjwatson, wgrant: working on pkg-create-dbgsym now, for the binary version bug 1448247
<ubottu> bug 1448247 in pkg-create-dbgsym (Ubuntu W-series) "pkg-create-dbgsym creates -dbgsym packages with the source version, not the binary version" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1448247
<wgrant> pitti: Great, thanks. We should do a main test rebuild on scalingstack once you have something that seems to work.
<wgrant> pitti: What's your approach for the fix?
<pitti> wgrant: this can't be fixed solely in dh_strip, so I'll divert dh_builddeb or whatever calls dpkg-gencontrol and update binary versions there
<wgrant> Yeah, dh_builddeb or dh_gencontrol make sense.
<pitti> I'll add a test case with a source that produces such different binary versions first
<wgrant> Tests? Pfeh.
<pitti> doko pointed to failed build logs, but I figure they are gone now (it got rebuilt after you switched off ddebs)
<pitti> but it's fairly clear what happens, I figure LP verifies binary versinos between a deb and its ddeb
<wgrant> Right.
<pitti> wgrant: had a good flight back?
<wgrant> pitti: s/back/to Malta/
<wgrant> So yes, it was the easiest international flight ever :P
<pitti> wgrant: oh, right
<ev> pitti: thanks!
<wgrant> pitti: If you need to test, the same checks are performed on PPAs with ddebs enabled. If you want a test PPA, I can enable the flag for just that.
<pitti> ev: hey Evan! (for anything in particular? :-) )
<ev> 7:48 AM <pitti> ev: yes, to verify correct Depends:; but tests can have Restrictions: needs-recommends
<ev> and hi :)
<pitti> wgrant: I suppose the requirement is that the binary versions of ddeb and deb are identical, right?
<pitti> ev: ah ;)
<pitti> wgrant: I'll do that with the local test suite (I have a test now, currently reengineering the actual logic)
<wgrant> pitti: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~launchpad-pqm/launchpad/devel/view/head:/lib/lp/archiveuploader/nascentupload.py#L339
<pitti> wgrant, cjwatson, doko_: I have this working now, in lp:ubuntu/pkg-create-dbgsym
<cjwatson> pitti: Would it be worth an rm -f $dp/DEBIAN/add_to_files.pkg-create-dbgsym if -a isn't in use, on the principle of idempotency or something?
<pitti> cjwatson: dh_gencontrol already does that if it exists, what do you mean?
<cjwatson> pitti: But thanks, that all looks sound to me.  Stick it in a PPA and we can at least test-build gcc-5 against it?
<pitti> cjwatson: I also suggest test-building binutils and systemd (see my recent bug followup)
<pitti> yep, will create a PPA now
<cjwatson> pitti: I mean that the pkg_create_dbgsym stage should rm -f that file if the option isn't set, to make sure the option state is unambiguous either way; but never mind, I just noticed that pkg_create_dbgsym can be run multiple times so this is an incorrect suggestion
<pitti> hm, where do I create a PPA on https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev
<pitti> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/+activate-ppa is "not allowed here" for me, hmm
<pitti> we can't create per-team PPAs any more?
<Laney> pitti: I think you need to be the owner (DMB here)
<Laney> Want one?
<pitti> Laney: please
<pitti> Laney: "ddeb-test" or so
<Laney> done
<pitti> Laney: danke
<pitti> wgrant, cjwatson: can you please mark https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/+archive/ubuntu/ddeb-test for creating dbgsyms?
<cjwatson> pitti: done
<pitti> danke
<pitti> p-c-d uploaded, I'll upload binutils, systemd, and gcc-5 after it's published
<pitti> (or rather, copy sources from vivid to the PPA)
<mitya57> We are missing a 15.04 announcement in https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+announcements (does anybody read that?)
<ScottK> pitti: autopkgtest is claiming regressions on both your policykit-1 and systemd SRUs for vivid.  Would you please have a look.
<pitti> ScottK: ah, will do, thanks; we'll have to retry upstart some ten times, due to bug 1429756
<ubottu> bug 1429756 in linux (Ubuntu Vivid) "FTBFS: upstart test_job_process fails in majority of cases / Kernel returning unexpected EIO at end of file" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1429756
<ScottK> pitti: I'm guessing you know who to talk to regarding problems in the autopkgtest infrastructure.  ;-)
<pitti> ScottK: heh, yes; although in these cases it's flaky tests
<pitti> ScottK: both succeeded now
<ScottK> Great.
<ScottK> pitti: There are quite a number of regressions showing for pending SRUs.  It might be useful for someone who knows the autopkgtest stuff to go through them and see what's real (and mark those verification failed) and what's a test issue.
<pitti> ScottK: utopic should be okay; trusty has quite a number of failures indeed; we talked about those on the core sprint and fixed some issues, but the others are still TODO indeed
<ScottK> OK.  As long as someone is looking into it.
<Ionic> fun with launchpad, second iteration...
<Ionic> now a package is completely missing. I suspect this to be the case due to it being empty.
<Ionic> while that's generally a bad thing, because (at least) Debian supports and endorses empty dummy packages as a transition method, the package *shouldn't* be empty in the first place
<Ionic> additionally, I cannot reproduce the problem with pbuilder-dist on my own system
<ScottK> Ionic: We have transitional packages exactly like Debian, so that's not it.
<Ionic> the package should contain a symlink that is created in the install phase within the destroot
<Ionic> ScottK: well, the package isn't being created *by launchpad*, while everythings looks fine when using pbuilder-dist. that's what I'm not getting.
<ScottK> Right.  I'm not disputing anything other than thinking Ubuntu and Debian are somehow different when it comes to transitional packages.
<Ionic> ScottK: I didn't know the dummy package policies for Ubuntu. they could have been different from Debian (particularily because I don't think "dummy packages" are a good idea anyway)
<Ionic> but that's my personal opinion, as it will leave dummy packages on people's systems.
<Ionic> again, not too bad, as those will be uninstalled with the next dist-upgrade or autoclean operation. all RPM-based package managers frown upon empty dummy packages, though (mostly because their package managers do not automatically delete them at some point)
<ScottK> They should be section oldlibs and go away at some point, so it's not a real issue.
<Ionic> anyway, the point is that the package should NOT be empty in the first place, and even if it was, I would expect a package to be built
<Ionic> I have genuinely no idea how to debug this, because it's non-reproducible via pbuilder-dist
<rsalveti> bdmurray: Saviq: how to extract the crash file from https://errors.ubuntu.com/oops/461670b4-eb7a-11e4-bb71-fa163e525ba7, for example?
<rsalveti> like the core dump
<bdmurray> rsalveti: generally the core dumps are only temporarily available, we don't store every coredump forever
<bdmurray> rsalveti: What are you trying to find out?
<Ionic> I can even see the symlink being created that should be part of that package
<Ionic> ln -s -f "/usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu"/libNX_Xinerama.so.1 /build/buildd/nx-libs-3.5.0.32/debian/tmp/usr/lib/nx/X11/Xinerama/libXinerama.so.1
<Ionic> but it's never included in the package, although the .install file contains "usr/lib/nx/X11/"
<Ionic> *sigh*
<Ionic> and pbuilder-dist foo withlog build ...dsc doesn't work either
<Ionic> "pbuilder-dist: Error: "withlog" is not a recognized argument."
<Ionic> seems like a log file is always created in the results dir as foo.build
<Ionic> and the option was removed some time ago
<Ionic> (but the manpage is still referencing it)
<sbeattie> bdmurray: hey, I'm kinda confused by https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/clamav/+bug/1449088 ; the bug title apport generated has clamav-daemon 0.98.6+dfsg-1ubuntu4 failing to upgrade, but the dpkg telminal-log.txt attachement makes has the postinst for clamav-daemon 0.98.6+dfsg-1ubuntu2 failing. Any idea why the discrepancy?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1438745 in clamav (Ubuntu Vivid) "duplicate for #1449088 package clamav-daemon 0.98.6+dfsg-1ubuntu2 failed to install/upgrade: subprocess installed post-installation script returned error exit status 2" [High,Fix released]
<bdmurray> sbeattie: nope, that's weird. There's also no reference to clamav-daemon in DpkgHistoryLog.txt
<ScottK> sbeattie and bdmurray: Not sure why it's titled that way, but the error being reported is the one that was present in ubuntu2 and fixed in ubuntu4 (ubuntu3 got eaten by launchpad)
<sbeattie> ScottK: one of the reasons to dig into it a bit was to make sure that that ubuntu4 actually fixed the issue, and/or the respin due to the lp ddeb issue didn't accidentally drop the fix.
<ScottK> The simplest way to do that is extract the postinst and look at that line.  If says $DEBCONFFILE it's fixed.  If it says $DEBCONFILE, it's not.
<aeoril> infinity poke
<infinity> aeoril: Yeah, I completely forgot about your offer last week when we were actually doing the release.
<aeoril> infinity oh well, maybe some other time :)
<infinity> Riddell: I don't suppose you were planning to ask to re-spin your vivid ISOs, were you?
<infinity> Riddell: Cause if not, I can't see any point in SRUing ubiquity.
<ScottK> infinity: How about if one is doing an online install and asked for package updates to be installed?  Doesn't that upgrade Ubiquity?
<infinity> ScottK: ICBW, but I don't think ubiquity updates and re-execs itself.  I'm not a ubiquity expert, though.
 * ScottK thought it did, but not an expert either.
<Riddell> infinity: isn't there an update ubiquity option from within ubiquity?
<infinity> Turns out that "rgrep update" in the ubiquity source is entirely unhelpful. ;)
<Riddell> infinity: also we have derivatives who will want it
<infinity> Hrm, I do see mention of "upgrading the installer" in the changelog.
<infinity> Scary.
<infinity> I've never noticed/used this feature.
<infinity> Riddell: Alright, objection retracted.
<sarnold> spacex feed for today, just doing a countdown so far https://youtu.be/nBwAYT_ogj4
<infinity> sarnold: Hrm, that doesn't seem to work in our default ffox config.  Annoying.
<infinity> pitti: This ecryptfs diff is causing me to drink.  Heavily.
<ScottK> infinity: Doesn't being awake have the same effect on you generally?
<ScottK> Not that I'm one to talk ...
<infinity> ScottK: Only on days ending in Y.
<ScottK> :-)
<sarnold> that ecryptfs diff _earned_ it though :)
<infinity> sarnold: srsly.
<infinity> sarnold: Second set of eyes appreciated.  Destructively altering partition tables isn't something I take lightly.
<infinity> sarnold: The diff in vivid-proposed/unapproved, to be clear.
<sarnold> infinity: is this it? https://launchpadlibrarian.net/204338055/ecryptfs.debdiff
<sarnold> (I've got that in my history from the bug report)
<infinity> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/204337329/ecryptfs-utils_107-0ubuntu1_107-0ubuntu1.1.diff.gz
<infinity> They might match, but that's the one pitti uploaded.
<sarnold> thanks; iirc the only thing I I thought of last week was that 'printf' might be preferable to 'echo', and that alone didn't seem worth mentioning
<sarnold> infinity: why is the postinst calling sudo?
<infinity> sarnold: For exactly zero good reason.
<infinity> sarnold: Ditto for setup-swap, I imagine.  Given that the rest of that script can't possibly work without root.
<infinity> sarnold: Any other complaints from your review?  I'm rejecting for the sudo thing alone, since sudo in a postinst is potentially hangtastic if the system's resolver is slightly out of whack.
<sarnold> infinity: jeeze I didn't think about the resolver.. I just figured someone'd have funky local configs that causes sudo to fail somehow..
<sarnold> infinity: that was it though
<infinity> sarnold: The echo vs printf thing doesn't seem like a concern, as he's implicitly calling coreutils echo.  If a user replaces /bin/echo, they probably get to keep both pieces.
<sarnold> yeah
<sarnold> it's just one of the little things about shell scripting that grabs my attention every time though. heh
 * infinity nods.
<sarnold> ("needless use of sudo in a script already running as root"? that takes three tries to spot.. and I missed one.)
#ubuntu-devel 2015-04-28
<pitti> Good morning
<pitti> infinity: sudo> erk, sorry; debugging leftover, I'll reupload
<pitti> sarnold: ^
<pitti> sarnold, infinity: reuploaded and tested again
<pitti> with dropped sudo and /bin/echo -> printf
<pitti> thanks for spotting!
<rlaager> Now that Ubuntu has moved to systemd, is it the plan to update packages to use systemd timers instead of cron jobs?
<pitti> rlaager: all in due time; we still want/need to support upstart until at least 16.04 LTS, and the phone hasn't been switched yet
<rlaager> pitti: I ask because if that's the eventual plan, I will update my packages at $WORK sooner (i.e. for the next LTS) rather than later, and it will also affect my suggestions and patches to Ubuntu packages, both in and out of the official repositories.
<pitti> rlaager: it hasn't been officially discussed, but once we stop supporting upstart I see no reason to not use timers
 * Unit193 sighs.
<ari-tczew> when vivid+1 is going to be open?
<pitti> ari-tczew: whenever we get a name
<Unit193> And someone has been slacking on the naming of it. ;)
<pitti> yeah, this is a non-delegatable task, I'm afraid
<pitti> wgrant, cjwatson: gcc-4.9 built in the PPA, but again failed to upload: do you know what https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/+archive/ubuntu/ddeb-test/+build/7362665 means?
<wgrant> pitti: Huh, that reminds me of a bug I fixed in it in 2009.
<wgrant> pitti: I suspect one of the binaries may have been missing a version in its Source field.
<wgrant> pitti: It's looking for an epoched source version.
<pitti> wgrant: some binaries indeed have an epoch (that was what the whole bug was about)
<pitti> but the source shouldn't need one?
<wgrant> pitti: But the binaries need to specify their source package.
<wgrant> If the name is different, they have a Source: foo field
<pitti> wgrant: what does "missing a version in its Source field" mean?
<wgrant> If the version is also different, they have a Source: foo (1.2.3)
<pitti> missing Source: field, or missing Version:?
<pitti> ooh!
<wgrant> eg. apt-cache show lib32gcc1
<pitti> I didn't know that
<wgrant> Source: gccgo-5 (5.1~rc1-0ubuntu1)
<pitti> I don't test for that, might be in the mangler
<pitti>  Package: fixincludes
<pitti>  Source: gcc-4.9 (4.9.2-10ubuntu13)
<pitti>  Version: 1:4.9.2-10ubuntu13
<pitti> so that looks ok, right?
<pitti>  Package: fixincludes-dbgsym
<wgrant> hat is correct.
<pitti>  Source: gcc-4.9
<pitti>  Version: 1:4.9.2-10ubuntu13
<pitti> but that would be wrong then
<wgrant> Indeed.
<pitti> wgrant: ack, thanks!
 * pitti goes to fix that
<wgrant> I don't remember what exactly my old fix was.
<wgrant> Ohh, unless it was adding the Source field in the first place.
<wgrant> launchpadlibrarian.net/35716468/pkg-create-dbgsym_0.31_0.32.diff.gz
<dholbach> good morning
<jasabella> hi!
<wgrant> pitti: I think it's reasonable to not fix lucid.
<wgrant> It's worth looking at any major differences precise and trusty, though.
<pitti> wgrant: I backported the fixes to precise
<pitti> there are a lot more which could be backported, but let's not do everything at once
<wgrant> Right, just wondering ifthere's anything else interesting for failedtoupload reasons.
<pitti> there were some fixes to improve the debug links etc., but none that refer to uploading except perhaps cjwatson's Architectures: fix (which I included)
<wgrant> Right.
<pitti> wgrant: so I'll let gcc-4.9 finish building for vivid; if that succeeds, I'll upload gcc for precise, trusty, and utopic
<wgrant> Yep, sounds good to me.
<wgrant> gcc is good at breaking the world.
<pitti> and I'll copy binutils and some other package for precise once p-c-d publishes for precise
<wgrant> If it works, everything that uses debhelper probably does.
<wgrant> p-c-d ftbfs on precise
<pitti> binutils is interesting as it calls pkg_create_dbgsym by hand, no debhelper
<wgrant> Yep
<pitti> wgrant: no, fixed in pitti2 (publishing)
<wgrant> The kernel is also interesting, though it worked fine when we tested it last week.
<wgrant> Ahh
<wgrant> Oh, the kernel may not actually use p-c-d
<pitti> but that doesn't ... yes
<wgrant> Since it produces -dbgsym .debs and then renames them to ddeb...
<pitti> it builds .ddebs, but entirely by itself
<wgrant> It does use p-c-d, but not to build the main packages.
<wgrant> It has some weird autocreated ddebs which are crazy, but they upload at least.
<pitti> binutils copied
 * pitti wonders what to use instead of systemd for precise and trusty -- some complex multi-binary thing which produces ddebs and has epochs
<pitti> well, gcc should do for that
<pitti> oh, binutils -- that needs fixing to actually add the ddebs to the .changes
 * pitti uploads that
<caribou> I'm working on fixing a bug both in Ubuntu & Debian so I updated the existing bug on Debian but not getting any response from the maintainer. Should I get someone else in Debian to upload the fix or just add a delta to Ubuntu until the debian maintainer wakes up ?
<melodie> hello
<melodie> caribou which package?
<caribou> melodie: python-pywbem
<melodie> who is mentioned as maintainers/packages in the .desc file?
<caribou> melodie: bug #1434991
<ubottu> bug 1434991 in pywbem (Ubuntu Vivid) "python attributeError 'SSLTimeoutError' after upgrade" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1434991
<caribou> melodie: lemme check
<caribou> melodie: Maintainer: Benjamin Kaduk <kaduk@mit.edu>
<caribou> Uploaders: Russ Allbery <rra@debian.org>, Sam Hartman <hartmans@debian.org>
<caribou> maybe I should email each one directly instead of relying on the bug update
<melodie> wait a sec
<melodie> what about https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pywbem/+bug/1434991/comments/6 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1434991 in pywbem (Ubuntu Vivid) "python attributeError 'SSLTimeoutError' after upgrade" [Medium,In progress]
<caribou> melodie: it's been two weeks now & didn't hear anything from the bug
<melodie> caribou when you report a bug in Debian bugs (at debian-mentors I think? you might want to check) you can add the maintainers and packages in copy
<caribou> melodie: the bug already existed, I just updated it
<melodie> caribou it's not all that fast, if you don't get a response after 3 months you can poke them again
<melodie> caribou did you see the last comment in your bug report?
<caribou> melodie: I won't wait 3 months to fix the bug in Ubuntu
<melodie> caribou what will you do?
<melodie> maybe could you add a ppa?
<caribou> melodie: add an Ubuntu delta to the package
<melodie> ok
<melodie> I also seek help for a little thing
<caribou> melodie: ppa is not an anwser to existing bugs in our archives
<melodie> caribou ok!
<melodie> very good
<caribou> melodie: thanks for your answers btw,
<melodie> my thing is about redshift, I'd like to ask confirmation about this: is "vidmode" enabled, or is it not enabled, as I suspect? http://pastebin.com/index/VXsafnbU
<melodie> caribou welcome!
<melodie> caribou btw, what is your package name in the Debian repos?
<melodie> pywbm isn't found
<caribou> melodie: python-pywbem
<caribou> melodie: pywbem is the source pkg
<melodie> caribou have you tried the updated version from Debian?
<melodie> or the one from vivid?
<melodie> (same thing as updated from Debian)
<caribou> melodie: the bug is in all versions up to debian/SID
<melodie> 0.8.0 then?
<zyga> pitti: hey, do you remember bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/intltool/+bug/377872
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 377872 in intltool "having a way to specify a source format in the potfiles list would be nice" [High,Triaged]
<caribou> melodie: sid has 0.8.0~dev650-1
<melodie> caribou is your bug here too? https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?pkg=python-pywbem;dist=unstable
<caribou> melodie: yes, it's also referenced in the LP btg
<caribou> s/btg/bug
<melodie> what is "btg" ?
<melodie> ih
<melodie> oh
<melodie> bug ok
<melodie> caribou you say it is there, but I only see #780264 ?
<melodie> unless they thought it wasn't an "outstanding bug" ?
<caribou> melodie: yep, that's the one. don't bother; I sent and email to the maintainer & uploders. I'll see what they say
<pitti> zyga: I didn't see this before, but it's comprehensible enough
<melodie> caribou ok. can you confirm for my question? as "vidmode" not enabled? Is looking for the compiled libs with ldd the right way to go?
<zyga> pitti: you commented on the gnome counterside IIRC
<melodie> I am hunting the bugs in redshift and redshift-gtk, to get it to work as it should.
<caribou> melodie: I don't know about "vidmode", but if you want the list of shared libraries, ldd will do it, hes
<caribou> s/hes/yes
<zyga> pitti: I wanted to ask if you know of a workaround for this, so a project that's not C-based that still uses po/POTFILES.in and intltools
<caribou> melodie: good thing, I'm being hit by this one too
<melodie> I just posted 2 bug reports
<melodie> with solutions
<caribou> melodie: bug # ?
<melodie> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/redshift/+bug/1188961/comments/8
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1188961 in redshift (Ubuntu) "gtk-redshift don't work at startup" [Medium,Triaged]
<pitti> zyga: I think in a project of mine I craeted a temporary .py symlink to the executable python script, then call intltool, then remove the symlink again
<melodie> I am not yet satisfied because it works way better in Archlinux, and I will compile from sources to see if adding all options help
<zyga> pitti: thanks, I'll try that
<melodie> caribou if you are interested you can follow the link from that one bug report, and there, I added the links to the sources of my research
<melodie> else, there is a very recent update available at the redshift project site: https://github.com/jonls/redshift/releases
<caribou> melodie: reading...
<melodie> caribou sure... I'm going to install the dev tools now (my install is fresh) so I can compile from git
<melodie> caribou I compiled and installed successfully with a max of options (looking into configure.ac too) and the compile from git works, but I still don't know why there is no UI for the configuration side.
<melodie> caribou I will need to track down what is different with the redshift I have in Archlinux
<wgrant> pitti: Nice, gcc-4.9 built.
<wgrant> That's a *lot* of binaries.
<pitti> at last!
<pitti> wgrant: ok, then I'll throw in the precise/trusty/utopic gccs :)
<pitti> wgrant: systemd/trusty also does that, there's a libgudev dbgsym and libgudev is epoch'ed
<wgrant> Aha
<pitti> wgrant: there, more buildd fodder :)
<pitti> wgrant: but I'm fairly certain that this will work now, at least for trusty/utopic (as that's pretty much exactly the same); hopefully also for precise
<cjwatson> Worth also remembering that we'll need to copy this into -security.
<cjwatson> I think?
<wgrant> up
<pitti> yes, I think so
<cjwatson> Unless the security PPAs build against -updates.
<pitti> for the initial hump/tests, having it in -proposed should be enough, as all builds except -security only use that (so copying to -updates isn't very urgent)
<wgrant> -security needs it very soon.
<wgrant> Or their builds will fail or do the wrong thing once we turn on the flag.
<pitti> so assuming the gcc builds work in all releases, I'll upload them to the -proposed queues
<wgrant> Yep
<pitti> do you think we need more tests before accepting them?
<wgrant> I think if the known weird packages work then everything else should be tractable.
<pitti> yes, I agree
<wgrant> I'd like to do a main rebuild, but scalingstack lcy01 remains unhappy.
<wgrant> I guess we could do a non-virt amd64 rebuild, since the buildds aren't doing anything else anyway...
<melodie> caribou this is the tool I was seeking for, isn't available in the repositories: http://www.webupd8.org/2010/07/redshiftgui-protects-your-eyes-when.html
<melodie> caribou the project page, if you are interested, http://maoserr.github.io/projects/redshiftgui/
<mpt> cyphermox, Wellark_: Whatâs the difference between âWi-Fi security: LEAPâ and âWi-Fi security: WPA Enterpriseâ + âAuthentication: LEAPâ?
<mdeslaur> dholbach: FYI, moving my patch piloting to tomorrow as I have an emergency at the moment
<dholbach> mdeslaur, sure sure
<cyphermox> mpt: it's two very different types of security for wifi networks. One is using straight LEAP for the passphrase (generating dynamic WEP keys), the other is the more typical authentication over 802.1x
<zbenjamin> jdstrand: ping, do you have some time to talk about the framework validation issue bzoltan pinged you about a few days ago?
<mpt> cyphermox, thanks. Iâm collapsing the 802.1x authentication options into the main security menu, so I think Iâll call the former âLEAPâ and the latter âWPA Enterprise LEAPâ
<jtaylor> doko_: how high are the changes clang in vivid gets a sru if I provide an upstream patch?
<cyphermox> mpt: there may be some others that are confusing/ambiguous, or need to be added in the future
<cyphermox> mpt: also, different WPA enterprise methods require different fields
<mpt> cyphermox, but your âgenerating dynamic WEP keysâ then makes me wonder why âLEAPâ and âDynamic WEPâ are distinct options :-]
<pitti> wgrant, cjwatson: all builds done in the PPA, spot-checking ddebs LGTM; I uploaded the stuff to the -proposed review queues
<pitti> doko_: ^ FYI
<cyphermox> mpt: there is more than one way to generate dynamic wep keys
<cyphermox> mpt: one design that looks solid is what Android does. I bet the iPhone is also pretty much handling things the same way. I'm guess that is what you're aiming for?
<mpt> (â¯Â°â¡Â°ï¼â¯ï¸µ ÊÇÊ dÇÊ
<cjwatson> pitti: Excellent, thanks
<mpt> cyphermox, <https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Networking#wi-fi-authentication-variations>
<arges> infinity: whats the status on Vivid sru's? should I be holding off on reviewing tomorrow until w is open for business?
<mardy> Laney: hi! Was there something you were expecting me to do for bug 1432613? If so, please let me know -- it was not my intention to drop the ball :-)
<ubottu> bug 1432613 in Online Accounts: Account plugins "Facebook and MSN shutting down" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1432613
<Laney> mardy: yes, we need to upload this to all Ubuntu releases
<Laney> probably not the dropping packages/conflicts part there though - just let them be empty & update the descriptions
<melodie> please, does someone know where software-properties-gtk write the changes done? Especially the kinds of updates it is configured to provide? (never - LTS only - each new version) ?
<mardy> Laney: by "upload" do you literally mean upload (if so, I'm afraid I can't help, I don't have the rights) or creating MPs for the citrain?
<mardy> Laney: maybe I can prepare the branches, and you do the upload?
<Laney> mardy: The train can do the upload, we just need to get it in one way or another
<mardy> Laney: OK, I'll prepare the MPs then
<cyphermox> mpt: yeah, it's not ideal :/
<wgrant> melodie: That's /etc/update-manager/release-upgrades
<melodie> wgrant thank you!
<mardy> Laney: while I'm a it, I think it'd be good to backport also the fix for bug 1430694. OK?
<ubottu> bug 1430694 in Online Accounts: Account plugins "Update Facebook permissions to 2.0 API" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1430694
<Laney> mardy: sure
<Laney> just add the SRU information to the bugs
<mardy> Laney: OK
<Laney> description / test case / regression potential
<Laney> thanks!
<mardy> Laney: done: can you nominate bug 1430694 for Utopic and Trusty (Vivid is already OK)?
<ubottu> bug 1430694 in Online Accounts: Account plugins "Update Facebook permissions to 2.0 API" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1430694
<Laney> k
<Laney> mardy: done
<mardy> Laney: do you remember what was the trick to get pagination working in bzr? I must have broken something, and now I've always to type "bzr log | less" explicitly...
<Laney> mardy: I am using https://launchpad.net/bzr-pager
<mardy> Laney: thanks!
<mardy> Laney: about the backports, should I backport the packaging fixes to vivid, at least? or not backport them at all?
<Laney> mardy: without them, the packages will just be empty, right?
<Laney> s/packages/package/
<mardy> Laney: not really; the account-plugin-facebook will contain the other (working) services; and this is correct
<Laney> I mean the wlm one
<mardy> Laney: the live plugin will contain the live plugin, to create the account; but then, you won't have any use for this account
<Laney> can we just not ship this plugin?
<Laney> I think it'd be safer for SRU to not change the packages around
<mardy> Laney: I agree that for Utopic and Trusty we can leave it like this, but I guess we could fix it for vivid
<Laney> vivid is stable now too
<mardy> Laney: we can make it empty, indeed, but I'm wondering if someone could develop an app which could use the live plugin (maybe for IMAP?)
<mardy> Laney: then they'd want to depend on account-plugin-live, but not being able to use it, if it's empty
<mardy> Laney: so, IMHO it's better either to force the removal of the package, or to keep it, though fairly useless
<Laney> we could drop the recommends
<Laney> but keep the package
<mardy> Laney: +1
 * Laney nods
<pitti> fginther: hey! would you mind actually attaching the log in bug 1449632?
<ubottu> bug 1449632 in fatrace (Ubuntu) "fatrace autopkgtests assume access to certain CPU registers" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1449632
<pitti> fginther: which -cpu option are you using there, so that I can reproduce this?
<fginther> pitti, oops. sorry about that
<infinity> arges: vivid SRUs don't block on W in any way.  Review away.
<fginther> pitti, there is no --cpu option for creating nova instances, but there may be a way to determine what the openstack cloud is configured to use. I'll try to get back to you on that
<arges> infinity: ack
<fginther> pitti, log file is attached.
<fginther> pitti, I have to run, but will be back later if you leave any questions
<mdeslaur> pitti, kees, infinity, stgraber, slangasek: tech board meeting?
<pitti> x86      SandyBridge  Intel Xeon E312xx (Sandy Bridge)
<pitti> fginther: nevermind, that ^ I guess
<mardy> Laney: which target branch should I use for the MPs for empathy? I don't find any "14.04" or "trusty" branches, should I create them?
<slangasek> mdeslaur: hmm; unfortunately sprinting this week, don't think I can attend, sorry
<Laney> mardy: Make a new one if we haven't SRUed that release before
<pitti> fginther: nevermind, can reproduce
<Laney> edit Vcs-Bzr in debian/control to point to it... I usually just append the release name e.g. ubuntutrusty
<mardy> Laney: this means that it hasn't, right? http://packages.ubuntu.com/search?suite=trusty&section=all&arch=any&keywords=empathy&searchon=sourcenames
<Laney> mardy: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/empathy <- actually we did for trusty but looks like no vcs
 * Laney makes one
<Laney> mardy: okay, lp:~ubuntu-desktop/empathy/ubuntutrusty exists now
<mardy> Laney: thanks; and as a matter of fact, I wouldn't have had the permissions to push to that branch
<mardy> Laney: can you please do the same for utopic and vivid?
<Laney> I will once there is something to push there
<Laney> i.e. your branch
<Laney> you can bzr branch -r tag:<the ubuntu version> to get the right revision to start from
<mardy> yep, ok
<sarnold> pitti: thanks for the ecryptfs fixes; I know a lot of users have hit that..
<pitti> sarnold: yeah; I tried to be defensive, that's why it's a relatively large shell script
<sarnold> :)
<mdeslaur> @pilot in
* udevbot changed the topic of #ubuntu-devel to: Archive: Break Time | Devel of Ubuntu (not support or app devel) | build failures -> http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs/ | #ubuntu for support and discussion of lucid -> utopic | #ubuntu-app-devel for app development on Ubuntu http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment | See #ubuntu-bugs for http://bit.ly/lv8soi | Patch Pilots: mdeslaur
<mardy> Laney: do I understand correctly, that given "version-0ubuntuX" as stable release, the update should be "version-0ubuntuX.1" in debian/changelog?
<Laney> mardy: If that version is only in one release, otherwise use (e.g.) .14.04.1
<Laney> see: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdatePreparation#Update_the_packaging
<mardy> Laney: ok, here are the branches: lp:~mardy/empathy/lp1432613-vivid and lp:~mardy/empathy/lp1432613-utopic
<mardy> Laney: if you create the stable branches, I'll create the MPs
<mardy> Laney: hopefully I picked the right base revision :-)
<Laney> mardy: looks good, no need for MP - I'll just push them
<mardy> Laney: ok, cool; for trusty, and for all versions of account-plugins, I created MPs and subscribed you
<Laney> Looking
<Laney> I'll have to go in a minute, perhaps someone else can help you upload them
<Laney> mardy: or I can dput tomorrow (bypassing the train)
 * cyphermox -> late lunch
<bobbyz> Hi guys.  I'm working on creating some upstart scripts and I've been referring to http://upstart.ubuntu.com/cookbook/.  I'm trying to use the 'start on starting <service>' and 'stop on stopping <service>' directives to establish dependencies and it's working in all cases except one: For some reason, I have to manually start the dependent service at least once, or it won't start when the dependee runs on boot.  Is that a known
<bobbyz>  issue?  Am I missing a directive?  My config is here: https://gist.github.com/ziuchkovski/5a78c21aaf16fba9952f
<bobbyz> So basically I have to 'sudo service start sidekiq-worker1' at least once, or else when I reboot it isn't started, even though it's dependee service, 'sidekiq' is supposedly started/running
<greyback_> bobbyz: is upstart also starting a job called "sidekiq"? Is the sidekiq job depending on some startup signal? (e.g. "start on filesystem/mountall/login-session-start"
<bobbyz> greyback_: The sidekiq jobs is set for 'start on runlevel [2345]'
<greyback_> bobbyz: and that's working, yeah?
<bobbyz> Supposedly...it's just a dummy job in that it doesn't do anything: https://gist.github.com/ziuchkovski/5a78c21aaf16fba9952f#file-sidekiq-conf-L7
<bobbyz> It's more of a marker to trigger and control a group of worker jobs
<bobbyz> so 'service sidekiq status' does show started/running on reboot
<bobbyz> but the dependent worker jobs all say 'stopped/waiting'
<greyback_> bobbyz: ok, then upstart started it at least
<bobbyz> unless I start them manually and reboot again, at which point they all start
<greyback_> so it works after a reboot?
<bobbyz> it works after reboot if I manually start those worker jobs at least once
<bobbyz> if I don't they don't start on reboot
<bobbyz> so I thought maybe I'm missing a directive
<greyback_> not that I can think of, you seem to be doing the right thing
<bobbyz> ok, I'll dig more on my side then...maybe there's something else going on
<bobbyz> thanks for taking a look, I appreciate it
<greyback_> well I'd stick a line in your worker job to ensure it's being started at all - perhaps something else is stopping them immediately?
<bobbyz> good idea, I'll try that out
<Unit193> How would one go about a security update for trusty?  Icecast2 looks like it needs Debian #782120, CVE-2015-3026.
<ubottu> Debian bug 782120 in icecast2 "icecast2: icecast can be remotely killed by anyone if using <authentication type="url"> and stream_auth option (CVE-2015-3026)" [Important,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/782120
<ubottu> ** RESERVED ** This candidate has been reserved by an organization or individual that will use it when announcing a new security problem.  When the candidate has been publicized, the details for this candidate will be provided. (http://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvename.cgi?name=CVE-2015-3026)
<melodie> hi Unit193
<Unit193> Howdy.
<infinity> Unit193: Meet mdeslaur.
<infinity> mdeslaur: Meet Unit193.
 * Unit193 runs.
<infinity> Unit193: Short answer, though, for universe security updates, you prepare an update, hand it off to the security team to build in their PPA, and they release it for you.
<Unit193> infinity: Sounds easy enough.  Trying to do the Debian one now.
<infinity> Unit193: Oh, and mdeslaur clocked out 30m ago, apparently.  You might want to try poking him tomorrow if he doesn't wander by his computer and say hi tonight.
<Unit193> infinity: Alright.  Thanks for the information.
<sarnold> Unit193: this is the url we stuff in all the launchpad bugs asking for universe security updates: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures
<sarnold> Unit193: our cve tracker has a few more open issues for icecast2, if you're going to prepare an update can you please look them over as well? thanks http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/icecast2.html
<Unit193> sarnold: Lovely...  Too bad you can't just upgrade to a fixed version. :P
<sarnold> Unit193: yeah, I know what you mean..
<Unit193> (I'm already running 2.4.2, which has json output fixes as well.  Oh well.)
<Unit193> sarnold: With a quick glance, http://paste.openstack.org/show/1gwZe6bjxp8zCKoKw9hn look almost sane?
<sarnold> Unit193: nice; we like to include some dep-3 tags in the patches to indicate where they came from, and we like to format the changelogs with SECURITY UPDATE: as a leader, and - CVE-yyyy-nnnn as a standalone line, in case someone's got a text parser for it, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdatePreparation#Update_the_packaging
<Unit193> Dangit.
<Unit193> http://paste.openstack.org/show/gA31ndECVL75qvx9Vdhv/ I officially dislike security updates.
<Unit193> sarnold: I know it's not great, but eh.
<sarnold> Unit193: but that looks fantastic! :)
<sarnold> Unit193: please attach to a bug, mdeslaur ought to get to it tomorrow :) thanks!
<Unit193> sarnold: I'm pretty sure I'll leave future ones to you fellas.  I suppose I have to file a security bug now too.  Bleh.
<sarnold> Unit193: so I shouldn't get my hopes too much and go dangling http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/universe.html around? :)
<Unit193> sarnold: Haha, noooo. :P  I'm still working on pushing all my local changes back into Debian or Ubuntu for that matter. :P
<sarnold> Unit193: oof :) and I've thought before how nice it would be to have some time to go pushing distro changes back up to upstreams..
<melodie> hi
<Unit193> sarnold: Just not having it in my own repo would be a start, at least.  Problem is when you don't want to become the new maintainer in Debian! :P  LP 1449771, btw.
<ubottu> Error: Launchpad bug 1449771 could not be found
<melodie> what does it take as pre-required steps, to compile the sources of a lib in a chroot?
<Unit193> I set the urgency to 'high', because I had just prepped the jessie-security fix.  wiki says Ubuntu ignores it, so it should be fine.
<infinity> Unit193: We don't completely ignore urgency, but we ignore it enough for it to mostly not matter.
<infinity> Unit193: To be fair, for all but sid, Debian pretty much ignores it too.
<Unit193> https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/developers-reference/pkgs.html#bug-security-building
<infinity> Unit193: In that *-security is already prioritized higher on the buildds, and security uploads don't have a migration period.
<Unit193> infinity: But right, thanks.  I'm sure I'll have to fix something there too. :/
<infinity> Unit193: Yeah, I think the Debian security team just sets "high" (or higher) to hint things like package frontends to say "hey, this is important".
<Unit193> Ah.
<infinity> Unit193: Which isn't an entirely unreasonable thing to do in Ubuntu too, if people use similar frontends.
<infinity> Unit193: But in both cases, it has almost 0 effect on the uploads, since buildds prefer security, and there's no britney migration in the way.
<Unit193> infinity: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdatePreparation#Update_the_packaging could likely use a change then.
<infinity> Unit193: Less interesting in Ubuntu proper, as our preferred GUI package updater (update-manager) already highlights security updates via their apt source.
<infinity> (Which fails miserably for people who discover that all -security updates are mirrored to -updates and disable the former, but whatever)
<Unit193> infinity: Right, though I don't personally use that.  That's also a bad idea if you use, for example, mirror://mirrors.ubuntu.com/US.txt but hey.  And, at least security updates seem slightly easier in Ubuntu, thanks to sarnold.
<infinity> Unit193: From my POV as core-dev and a DD, I'd say they're about equally as annoying, but that's the price you pay for being able to upload something that will have zero bake time before it's slammed onto end users' machines.  Need checks and balances in place to make sure what ends up out there isn't crap.
 * Unit193 notes down infinity is a DD, for future use... ;)
<Unit193> infinity: Alright, well lets hope this works then...
 * infinity notes that he's been a DD for 13 years, and wonders where the time's gone.
<mdeslaur> Unit193: thanks for the bug and the debdiff, I'll take a look at it first thing tomorrow
<Unit193> mdeslaur: Great, thanks.
<Unit193> infinity: I'm going for packageset and eventually DM once I can get some gpg sigs.
<Unit193> mdeslaur: Bah, sorry.  I mistargetted that. :/
<mdeslaur> that's fine, you can't accept the target nominations anyway
<Unit193> That is, target distro trusty and not trusty-security.
<infinity> Unit193: trusty is fine.
<infinity> Unit193: The security team are literally the only people who target by pocket and they're wrong. :P
<Unit193> Haha.
<mdeslaur> heh
<mdeslaur> infinity: are you saying we don't need to do it anymore?
<infinity> mdeslaur: You would only need to do it if you were uploading directly to the archive, which you can't do anyway.
<mdeslaur> hrm
<infinity> mdeslaur: Notice how you need to use special PPA paths to make it work (or edit .changes) in your case, since PPAs themselves only know about release pockets.
<mdeslaur> right, perhaps worth revisiting on a rainy day
<infinity> mdeslaur: That was tongue-in-cheek, mind you.  In the non-PPA archive model, foo-security is correct, since foo is rewritten to foo-proposed, which you don't want.
<infinity> mdeslaur: It's just that the non-PPA path isn't one you can take in the current model anyway, so you're causing yourself weird pain (but your tools take care of the pain, AFAIK).
<mdeslaur> right, I'd have to actually modify my tools to change the behaviour at this point
<infinity> mdeslaur: When I slam security kernels through your PPA, I just target trusty, cause nyah nyah, that's why, but whatever works for you. :)
#ubuntu-devel 2015-04-29
<pitti> Good morning
<Unit193> Howdy.
<pragomer> how can I customise boot of ubuntu-iso such as setting "try ubuntu" to default? I read some tutorials but they are about isolinux.cfg and this file is no longer used in 14.04 or not?
<dholbach> good morning
<jasabella> hi there? :)
<LocutusOfBorg1> hi folks, any news about the development of w release?
<Unit193> Stiiiiiiiiiiill holding on.
<hyperair> uh oh
<hyperair> i just dputted a bunch of packages by mistake into ubuntu
<hyperair> instead of a ppa
 * hyperair groans
<hyperair> oh it's all rejected
<hyperair> yay!
<pitti> hyperair: they get rejected or land in UNAPPROVED where we can easily reject them manually :)
<pitti> hyperair: and nothing new in https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/vivid/+queue?queue_state=1
<hyperair> yeah they were all targeted at existing utopic and below
<Mirv> hyperair: that's why I've "default_host_main = notspecified" in my .dput.cf that I only comment out when I know I want to upload to ubuntu :)
<hyperair> Mirv: yeah well, mine too
<hyperair> this was a brain fart
<hyperair> i explicitly told dput to dput to ubuntu
<Mirv> heh
<hyperair> nothing can save you from that ;-)
<Unit193> dput-ng either of you, btw?
 * hyperair hasn't tried
 * hyperair is an old-school person
<hyperair> no bzr for me either
<Mirv> haven't tried either
<Unit193> hyperair: Why not?  Fastest way to get confused!
<hyperair> Unit193: yeah that
<hyperair> Unit193: also git-bzr fails spectacularly on too many things, and i can't stand bzr's interface
<Unit193> hyperair: I, err, used rsync --exclude .bzr/ mypackagedir/ ubuntu-bzr-package/  once. >_>
<hyperair> lol
<dholbach> willcooke, mhall119: is https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/convergence-1505-snappy-desktop and https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/convergence-1505-snappy-on-phone-and-desktop the same?
<willcooke> dholbach, yeah rather looks like it
<willcooke> don't mind which one stays, but would like to transition the subscribers from one to the other
<dholbach> I'm just wondering if one session is not going to be too little time
<willcooke> hrm
<dholbach> ok... I'll leave that in your hands :)
<willcooke> dholbach, please delete your one and I will make sure those folk are sub'd to the other one
<dholbach> ok
<willcooke> I dont really want a 2 hour session where we end up bike shedding the topic to death
<willcooke> we've already got some good thought behind it from the sprint, so I want to stay focused on those topics and get feedback
<willcooke> rather than a free for all
<willcooke> if we uncover some interesting topics then I will schedule another session about that topic
<dholbach> sure
<Laney> mardy: so you want me to upload or are you doing the silo thing?
<pragomer> how can I set the isolinux boot menu of ubuntu so that it is always been shown (the default is that I have to press a key) ?
<highvoltage> pragomer: best to ask in an isolinux related channel or forum
<pragomer> ok thanks
<highvoltage> pragomer: they might send you back to ubuntu since (afaik) it's an ubuntu patch, so you might have to end up (gasp) reading the docs, http://www.syslinux.org/wiki/index.php
<pragomer> mm. yes.. I read a lot.. but this specific thing ubuntu makes.. I cannot find this "tweak"
<pragomer> that "always show" menu thing..
<highvoltage> pragomer: you'll probably have to use gfxboot to create a new gfxboot binary
<highvoltage> (gfxboot-themes package might help you find what you need to change in the gfxboot source)
<pragomer> I thought I take the isolinux-folder from official cd... edit some files.. and put it back in remaster-process.. did I think too simple?
<cjwatson> It's not well-documented, but you need to remove hidden-timeout from gfxboot.cfg
<cjwatson> IIRC that's embedded in /isolinux/bootlogo
<pragomer> well thats my gfxboot.cfg:   http://pastebin.com/5QcdTTtQ
<cjwatson> So you'd need to unpack and repack that, although you don't need to use gfxboot as such for that; see http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-cdimage/debian-cd/ubuntu/view/head:/tools/boot/vivid/boot-amd64, down near the end
<pragomer> I tried hidden=0 before.. what did not work...
<cjwatson> For trusty and earlier you can just edit gfxboot.cfg directly, but for >= utopic you need to repack bootlogo
<pragomer> ups... how could I do this (I am not a programer just a bash-script-kiddie :-) )    no, seriously... how to unpack/repack.. have you further advice? would be great
<highvoltage> pragomer: for that you'd have to go read the docs, I'm afraid it's far out of the scope for #ubuntu-devel
<pragomer> ok, but thanks in any case
<cjwatson> I linked to the code
<cjwatson> line 632 onwards in boot-amd64 linked above, you basically just need to fiddle with the filenames and ensure you have an updated gfxboot.cfg in place before you do the repack step near the end
<cjwatson> highvoltage: what docs
<pitti> cjwatson, wgrant: do we want to go ahead with the pkg-create-dbgsym SRU today, or is this blocked on something still, from your POV?
<cjwatson> I was annoyed about the upstream syslinux change myself, but it wasn't feasible to undo unfortunately, hence the comment I left in that code noting that it's not ideal because of making customisation harder
<cjwatson> pitti: I see no reason not to go ahead with it
<cjwatson> pitti: All your test packages pass now, right?
<pitti> cjwatson: yes
<highvoltage> cjwatson: s/docs/gfxboot-docs + code link/g
<pitti> cjwatson: I do not want to self-accept, and neither of us three is in ~ubuntu-sru; do you happen to have any of https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-sru/+members at the sprint?
<cjwatson> highvoltage: sorry but none of the docs nor source packages you've referred to are actually relevant.  The reason I ask this question is that I'm fairly sure this is undocumented
<cjwatson> highvoltage: AFAIK the code links I gave are the most useful "documentation" that exists of this
<cjwatson> well also the code in the gfxboot-theme-ubuntu source package, grep for hidden-timeout
<cjwatson> but I don't think it's right to tell people to go read the nonexistent docs
<cjwatson> (and yes, it's totally my fault that the docs don't exist, but ...)
<cjwatson> and given that situation, I think it's entirely reasonable for people to ask in #ubuntu-devel
<highvoltage> cjwatson: ah, my bad then. I recently made some changes to a few ubuntu boot screens and found the isolinux and gfxboot docs really helpful, so I thought it might be the case for pragomer as well
<cjwatson> pitti: I'm not at the sprint
<cjwatson> highvoltage: the hidden-timeout thing is a bit of a special hack
<pragomer> cjwatson: as I am not a "developer" but just somebody that tries a remastering as "hobby"... what files do I have to change now? Or cant you tell it?
<cjwatson> pragomer: You'd have to perform the procedure at the end of boot-amd64 above by hand to unpack and repack /isolinux/bootlogo using cpio
<cjwatson> I'm afraid it will require some experimentation and reading that code, but shouldn't require writing new code
<pragomer> cpio.. I dont know that.. but will have a look at it. Thanks
<Unit193> cpio is fuuuuuuuunn.
<pragomer> is it just for unpacking?no.. because unpacking the file "ini" thats inside the "bootlogo" file is also possible with gui archiver..
<pragomer> but what do I have to do with the file "init"... is it "compiled", "hardcoded" ?
<cjwatson> Don't touch it.
<cjwatson> It's compiled from the gfxboot-theme-ubuntu source.
<cjwatson> You don't need to change it for this.
<cjwatson> As for bootlogo itself, I have no idea whether a GUI archiver will be able to repack the file in a way that syslinux/gfxboot will be able to read back.  You're on your own if you try that.
<cjwatson> To change hidden-timeout, you only need to modify gfxboot.cfg in the bootlogo archive, not any other files.
<pragomer> but there is only this one file "init" inside the archive "bootloader"... so if I should not touch the "init"-file... what do I do else to "edit" the default-behavior?
<cjwatson> That's not true for at least the vivid desktop image.
<cjwatson> What release are you using?
<pragomer> oh.. there IS NO gfxboot.cfg in this archive... gfxboot.cf is located outside.. in /isolinux folder
<pragomer> I am using Xubuntu 14.04
<cjwatson> So why did you waste our time not saying that earlier?
<cjwatson> 11:42 <cjwatson> For trusty and earlier you can just edit gfxboot.cfg directly, but for >= utopic you need to repack bootlogo
<cjwatson> 14.04 = trusty
<cjwatson> So all this stuff about unpacking/repacking doesn't match your case
<pragomer> ups.. I am so sorry.. I did not realize that earlier..
<cjwatson> When you asked about repacking following that, I assumed that you must be using at least 14.10 ...
<pragomer> so what would I have to change here: http://pastebin.com/5QcdTTtQ
<cjwatson> So, have you tried simply removing the hidden-timeout file from /isolinux/gfxboot.cfg and remastering the image?
<cjwatson> Er, the hidden-timeout line
<Unit193> cjwatson: Sorry for the dumb question, but do you know why they went with the cpio change?
<cjwatson> I'd expect that to be enough
<pragomer> ah, no I just set it from "2" to "0"... wait.. I am just trying to remove it and start my remastering script.. 3minutes :-) Thank you very much cjwatson
<cjwatson> I'm surprised setting it to 0 didn't work too, but do try removing it.  Also I'd strongly suggest checking the resulting image to make sure that the file there is actually what you expect it to be.
<cjwatson> Unit193: http://www.zytor.com/pipermail/syslinux/2014-June/022264.html and thread may help for context
<pragomer> cjwatson: Yes, I checked it - pausing the script at that place - and "0" was repeated to the target...
<cjwatson> It was basically the removal of the COMBOOT API which gfxboot was relying on to read files off the ISO9660 fs in its bytecode
<Unit193> Will read the full thread later.  Thanks.
<pragomer> I did not work :-(   I double checked... the removed hidden-line was repeatet on the targets iso... but no effect
<cjwatson> pragomer: What does the boot screen look like?  Do you get the keyboard + accessibility icon at the bottom until you press a key?
<pragomer> Yes.. exactly like that... so like nothing did change..
<pragomer> perhaps I make another mistake.. I also tried to remove some of the languages in the list, what I thought would be in the file "langlist"... either that wasnt sucessfull although this textfile only contained 2 languages... it like everthing is ignored..
<cjwatson> pragomer: I think you have something else wrong, because I just tried my own advice on a Xubuntu 14.04 image I had lying around and it works fine for me.
<cjwatson> pragomer: That is, I just removed hidden-timeout from gfxboot.cfg, nothing else, and that's enough for the gfxboot menu to be shown by default.
<Unit193> cjwatson: Speaking of which, for newer releases does /etc/casper/casper.conf (or whichever) still function as expected?
<cjwatson> Unit193: I'm not sure, sorry.
<Unit193> cjwatson: Alright, thanks.  Though, you may want to bump the timeout for selection.
<cjwatson> Unit193: s/you/somebody who is still working on the installer/ :-)
<cjwatson> Unless you mean in advice to pragomer
<Unit193> you being generic, when changing gfxboot.  50 => 300
<cjwatson> Ah right.  Yes, indeed.  I was going to mention that earlier but got sidetracked by realising that the cpio stuff was a red herring here.
<cjwatson> That's in isolinux.cfg and prompt.cfg.
<pragomer> so this is my prompt.cfg
<pragomer> http://pastebin.com/rUnNCr0v
<pragomer> and my isolinux: http://pastebin.com/MjE5kA3e
<pragomer> what would I have to edit?
<cjwatson> "timeout 50" => "timeout 300"
<cjwatson> (But this is not going to help the problem that your fundamental remastering process apparently isn't working for some reason.  You need to figure that out first.)
<pragomer> so.. to finish it... the right file would be gfxboot.cfg, right?
<pragomer> prompt and isolinux ?
<cjwatson> Yes
<pragomer> ok, thank you so much.
<wgrant> cjwatson, pitti: I'll try to catch StÃ©phane or Steve about it.
<cjwatson> pragomer: Hopefully somebody can help you with your remastering if you're still stuck with changes not having any effect.  (It's often worth trying something really obvious there like changing menu item text just so that you aren't confused about whether some configuration file change might or might not affect anything.)  I'm afraid I have a bit too much to do right now though ...
<pragomer> thank you in any case cjwatson.. yes I tried to change something obvious.. changed menu text.. that wasnt realized either..
<cjwatson> Are you booting the result in an emulator such as kvm, to avoid silly mistakes like booting the wrong physical USB stick (not that I've ever done that, oh no)?
<Unit193> cjwatson: Last one in my sleep deprived state, how's git lookin'?
<cjwatson> Unit193: Merge proposals almost work, just polishing up the preview diff stuff.  We're very nearly ready to deploy to production
<cjwatson> There'll be lots of gaps of course
<Unit193> Awesome, glad to hear it!  I like what I've been playing with.  And yeah, but the basics will be there, which is great.
<cjwatson> You've been playing with qastaging?
<Unit193> Yep, though honestly expected things to get wiped off there.
<cjwatson> Yeah, they will eventually.
<cjwatson> At the very least the next full qastaging database refresh will have the effect of forgetting all the backend repository paths.
<pragomer> cjwatson: could it be possible that no changes are made because "my files" in isolinux have different rights? (on cd e.g. they are not writable but I had to chmod them to write to...)
<cjwatson> pragomer: I wouldn't expect that to matter
<arges> @pilot in
* udevbot changed the topic of #ubuntu-devel to: Archive: Break Time | Devel of Ubuntu (not support or app devel) | build failures -> http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs/ | #ubuntu for support and discussion of lucid -> utopic | #ubuntu-app-devel for app development on Ubuntu http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment | See #ubuntu-bugs for http://bit.ly/lv8soi | Patch Pilots: mdeslaur, arges
<pragomer> cjwatson: ok, thank you again very much
<pragomer> cjwatson: can you imagine a reason for this: I "rm -rf" the /isolinux folder but I find it again on the iso after build process? do you think you could have a short look at my script?
<pragomer> cjwatson: the script is here:   http://pastebin.com/EcMVKSQF
<cjwatson> pragomer: ${WORK}/new corresponds to the live filesystem, not to the top-level ISO9660 filesystem.  As far as I can see you should be referring to ${WORK}/isolinux rather than ${WORK}/new/isolinux throughout.
<cjwatson> That probably explains all your problems.
<arges> tseliot: hi. Can you verify bug 1443016 for the fglrx updates? Thanks
<ubottu> bug 1443016 in fglrx-installer-updates (Ubuntu Trusty) "package fglrx-updates-core 2:15.200-0ubuntu0.1 failed to install/upgrade: trying to overwrite '/etc/acpi/fglrx-powermode.sh', which is also in package fglrx-updates 2:13.350.1-0ubuntu2" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1443016
<tseliot> arges: hi, actually yesterday I uploaded a new revision that fixes another regression. So maybe I should really verify that revision when it's approved
<arges> tseliot: ok add that comment in the bugs where necessary, i'll review that in the queue today hopefully
<tseliot> arges: ok, I'll be waiting for the new packages to land and then I'll add the feedback
<arges> cool thanks
<Unit193> mdeslaur: Awesome, thanks!  Also, got an email, mine got sponsored into Debian too. (re: icecast)
<mdeslaur> Unit193: nice! :)
<pragomer> cjwatson: Mm... I thought  ${WORK}/new/ would be the "root" folder of the iso/cd...  did not know that it would be possible to be more "root" :-)   ahm you know what I mean? I will try to copy the contenct of my isolinux to where you said.. just a moment
<cjwatson> pragomer: There are two filesystems on the image.  One of them is what's visible if you just mount the image directly; the other is nested within that and is what becomes effectively the root filesystem when you boot the image in live CD style.  The isolinux stuff lives in the outer of those two.
<pragomer> cjwatson: Ah ok... it's basic knowledge.. but I did not know that.. thank you .. I will try it..
<pragomer> cjwatson: ok.. now I see... the files are NOT copied to the iso...  damned... but it does not work either when copying /daten/ubunturemaster/files/isolinux to $WORK/isolinux      How can I add isolinux to the right filesystem on cd?
<cjwatson> pragomer: Ah, sorry, looks like I meant ${WORK}/ubuntu-livecd/isolinux
<pragomer> ah ok, I'll try :-)
<pragomer> cjwatson: Hey cjwatson: you are so much my hero :-) :-) now everything I edited works just fine! this was my fault.. copied it to the wrong filesystem..  Thank you so so much
<cjwatson> pragomer: Ah, brilliant, glad to have solved that mystery
<pragomer> *thumbsup*  Thanks again and have a nice day cjwatson
<cjwatson> Enjoy
<pragomer> thanks and bye. just found you at launchpad (so I know now how to look my here :-) )
<mardy> Laney: hi! I didn't see activity on my MPs, so I guess you can dput them when you have the chance
<Laney> mardy: fine, stand by to push them directly to trunk then please
<Laney> will be doing it later this afternoon
<mardy> Laney: ok
<wgrant> pitti: The new pkg-create-dbgsym looks published everywhere in -proposed. Can I commandeer the ddeb-test PPA to test it?
<doko> wgrant, pitti: please disable running the gcc tests when verifying this pkg-create-dbgsym fix
<doko> bdmurray, barry: see my last email on the pip/requests issue. bdmurray, do you run pip on the distro, or in a virtual env?
<pitti> doko: I did that in the test PPA already
<doko> ahh, good
<pitti> wgrant: please go nuts
<pitti> wgrant: please reupload the gcc packages in the PPA, they have the tests disabled (build time of 1 h vs. 12 or so)
<wgrant> pitti: Will do.
<barry> doko, bdmurray a bit busy with other things atm, but i'll look again later today
<wgrant> pitti: Copied into https://launchpad.net/~wgrant/+archive/ubuntu/p-c-d-test/+packages for clarity.
<wgrant> All the buildds are mine.
<infinity> wgrant: GIVE THEM BACK.
<wgrant> :(
<wgrant> mine
<infinity> Greedy.
<wgrant> I try.
<josepht> you guys share or you're going to go to time-out. :)
<infinity> 1 â 75 of 10 results
<infinity> Well job, LP.  Well job.
<wgrant> infinity: Better than timing out.
<roaksoax> infinity: howdy! any updates on the MAAS SRU?
<roaksoax> infinity: 1.7 SRU?
<bdmurray> doko: on the distro
<bdmurray> pitti: Even if a PPA is added to /etc/apport/native-origins.d/ apport doesn't have support for getting packages or ddebs from a PPA correct?
<infinity> roaksoax: You know what they say: No news is good news.
<pitti> bdmurray: right
<infinity> wgrant: I'm cancelling all the powerpc/gcc builds in that p-c-d-test PPA to save some cycles and to save my own santy when they kill off VMs.  I assume you don't actually need all the arches for your test.
<infinity> wgrant: Killing arm64 might not be a bad plan either.
<infinity> Oh, I guess the VMs wouldn't have died, if the testsuites were disabled.
<infinity> But still, cycles.
<ricotz> infinity, https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-toolchain-r/+archive/ubuntu/ppa/+build/7344672 ;)
<infinity> ricotz: It's trying as hard as it can.  Poor artigas.
<Laney> mardy: bah, I'm going to run out of time again, got overtaken with other things
<Laney> can someone else help? like maybe kenvandine? :)
<kenvandine> mardy, what do you need?
 * Laney thinks that you are accountish
<kenvandine> oh
<Laney> but maybe not :P
<kenvandine> mardy, you know where to find me :)
<Laney> kenvandine: sponsor SRUs for this https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gtk+3.0/+bug/1448969
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1448969 in gtk+3.0 (Ubuntu Utopic) "GTK3 can't resize treeviewcolumn" [Undecided,In progress]
<Laney> NO
<Laney> this: https://bugs.launchpad.net/account-plugins/+bug/1432613
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1432613 in Online Accounts: Account plugins "Facebook and MSN messengers shutting down (third-party client access)" [High,In progress]
<kenvandine> Laney, mardy: doesn't look quick :)  i'm under pressure right now for a critical hotfix destined for rtm
<kenvandine> so probably not today
<whatsw> Hi, I haven't been able to find anything online about Ubuntu 15.10... what's it called?
<teward> whatsw: FYI: asking in every channel is bad form
<teward> just ask one place, wait for answers
<whatsw> i didn t ask in every channel, only 3
<whatsw> but oj
<whatsw> ok
<teward> !crosspost
<ubottu> Please don't ask the same question in multiple Ubuntu channels at the same time. Many helpers are in more than one channel and it's not fair to them or the other people seeking support.
<teward> ^ that
<teward> ('every channel' was a generalization - the practice of asking in only one location is still valid)
<buildit> can i install ubuntu on my android device?
<zequence> buildit: Try #ubuntu-touch
<zequence> Also, https://developer.ubuntu.com/en/start/ubuntu-for-devices/installing-ubuntu-for-devices/
<buildit> i have a failed upgraded device
<buildit> an upgrade gone bad
<buildit> if i could install something that woulde make it work...
<shadeslayer> doko: Debian python ping
<shadeslayer> Installing python seems to be broken on sid :(
<shadeslayer> ( wasn't sure where else to ping you )
<shadeslayer> doko: http://paste.ubuntu.com/10944751/
<infinity> shadeslayer: That's fixed in -4, except for the fun part where python build-depends on python, so it might take some untangling to get all the arches fixed.
<shadeslayer> infinity: aw :(
<shadeslayer> infinity: uh, I dont see it on https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/python-defaults
<shadeslayer> it's blocking alot of my CI things :(
<infinity> shadeslayer: You want python2.7, not python-defaults
<infinity> shadeslayer: Or incoming: http://incoming.debian.org/debian-buildd/pool/main/p/python2.7/
<shadeslayer> aha
<shadeslayer> infinity: thanks
<thms> Hi everyone.
<thms> So I have a project for my company
<thms> I basically want to "re-brand" ubuntu
<thms> Means I'll use plymouth to change the splash/bootscren
<thms> And from there I want to make a .iso that will use it. and also include some software that is not (for exemple flash, vlc, so on..)
#ubuntu-devel 2015-04-30
<pitti> Good morning
 * pitti checks planet again...
<pitti> a name, a name, half a king's ransom for a name!
<didrocks> nothing in sight, dear sir
<pitti> I like infinity's proposal of "wartier warthog"
<infinity> pitti: I prefer wascally wabbit.
<infinity> Or wascawy.
<dholbach> good morning
<diwic> hi! Don't we have a name and archive for w yet?
<elfy> diwic: no - not yet
<diwic> elfy, ok...I wonder what's taking so long.
<elfy> no idea - I'm not Mark ;)
<LocutusOfBorg1> bdmurray, ping :)
<LocutusOfBorg1> I received a mail regarding a phased-update
<LocutusOfBorg1> but I can't login to see it
<pitti> wgrant: ah, v-done \o/
<LocutusOfBorg1> if anybody can pastebin to me this link https://errors.ubuntu.com/problem/35bb694c581825f0eec62d1fcc38e7654941fbcb
<pitti> wgrant: as we do all builds in -proposed, the new mangler is already effective; so we mostly just need to get it into -security now so that we can flip on ddebs in LP?
<LocutusOfBorg1> I'll be grateful
<LocutusOfBorg1> also https://errors.ubuntu.com/problem/2ff630d95be5b0005424b6f887ba2fd88a4b4781 and https://errors.ubuntu.com/problem/7f00260fc0706bef5a73f0de8b5a91f3e9f5abd3
<wgrant> pitti: Indeed, we should published to updates and security and then break lucid^W^Wenable ddebs.
<pitti> RIP lucid, it's your last day of duty
<wgrant> :'(
<pitti> no new gccs for lucid any more :)
<wgrant> Hard to believe we're killing off the third LTS already.
<wgrant> artigas is still going, though.
<wgrant> I don't think its final breath will make it.
<wgrant> I'm going to leave it going out of respect, though.
<LocutusOfBorg1> lucid ship with kernel 2.6.32, how old I feel
<jasabella> hi there :)
<jasabella> is the ubuntu kernel tweaked in any way which improves laptop battery life?
<LocutusOfBorg1> so nobody with access to errors.ubuntu.com?
<seb128> LocutusOfBorg1, define access? the site works fine for me
<Laney> I think you need to be in some team to get at the errors themselves
<Laney> LocutusOfBorg1: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2013-May/001039.html I think is what you want to do
 * hyperair wonders if it's possible to restart the system dbus daemon without bringing down the rest of the machine
<larsu> hyperair: most things assume that dbus is always available, so probably not
<lathiat> dbus api supports gracefully reconnecting but probably this code path is poorly if ever tested in most software :P
<hyperair> hmm damnit
<hyperair> my dbus daemon is consuming 300MB of memory and i want to reclaim that RAM
<Odd_Bloke> slangasek: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-on-ec2/vmbuilder/jenkins_kvm/view/head:/should_build.py
<LocutusOfBorg1> seb128, Laney the problem is "Sorry, you are not a member of a group that is allowed to see the data from error reports. Please fill out this form to request access."
<LocutusOfBorg1> I got two mails from bdmurray bot regarding "Possible regression"
<Laney> Suggest you fill out the form
<LocutusOfBorg1> I did it :)
<Laney> then you'll be able to access these things yourself
<Laney> nice
<Laney> I don't know who receives those, hopefully shouldn't be long
<LocutusOfBorg1> ok, I was wondering about which kind of regression introduced the latest virtualbox update
<LocutusOfBorg1> I don't want to have a bad update in the archive
<LocutusOfBorg1> I hope somebody will enable me soon
<pragomer> how can I set the default language of the ubuntu live cd at gfxboot? it has english as default. where can I change it?
<pitti> wgrant, slangasek: do you know whether we need to copy p-c-d to *-security as well? i. e. do the security buildd chroots have -updates enabled?
<cjwatson> pitti: We do need to copy it to -security, yes.
<shadeslayer> doko_: python 3.4 broken now :'(
<LocutusOfBorg1> shadeslayer, in debian is broken too
<LocutusOfBorg1> https://buildd.debian.org/status/fetch.php?pkg=virtualbox&arch=amd64&ver=4.3.26-dfsg-3&stamp=1430382229
<LocutusOfBorg1> still getting build failures
<cjwatson> pitti: Are we otherwise good to go?
<pitti> cjwatson: thumbs up from my POV
<cjwatson> pitti: Are you able to do the copy?  Otherwise I believe I still can
<pitti> cjwatson: yes, can do
<pragomer> how to set the default language of the ubuntu live cd at gfxboot menu?
<cjwatson> put the language code in question in /isolinux/lang
<pitti> cjwatson: sent the copy-package command for vivid, waiting for https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pkg-create-dbgsym/+publishinghistory before I copy the others
<pitti> cjwatson: ah, it's in https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/vivid/+queue?queue_state=1, approving
<pitti> ok, pending in vivid-security now, doing the others
<cjwatson> pitti: you can use --auto-approve on the copy
<pitti> nice
<pitti> done: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pkg-create-dbgsym/+publishinghistory
<pitti> now only the wobbly walrus task is open
<pitti> *nnnng* name!
<cjwatson> and we can make sure to copy that before anything else once we open
<pitti> don't we want to copy everything from vivid-updates anyway?
<cjwatson> indeed, we just don't necessarily do that first
<cjwatson> wgrant: We have the fixed pkg-create-dbgsym everywhere except *-RELEASE and lucid now.  Can you switch ddebs back on?
<wgrant> yep, will do when i'm back from lunch
<wgrant> hopefully with a certain word
<shadeslayer> LocutusOfBorg1: yeah, that's what I meant
<pragomer> In this tutorial they say that language-selection could not be preseeded and has to added to kernel options.
<pragomer> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/InstallCDCustomization/PreseedExamples
<pragomer> in what file do I add that?
<slangasek> pitti: the answer is yes, and I've copied them to the security pocket per wgrant
<slangasek> pitti: or possibly you did it before I got to it ;)
<pitti> slangasek: right, see my conversation with cjwatson 1.5 hours ago; should be all good now
<apw> pitti, yo ... could this failure be you ?  https://launchpadlibrarian.net/205206558/buildlog_ubuntu-vivid-ppc64el.linux_3.19.0-16.16_BUILDING.txt.gz
<pitti> apw: ah, it is
<pitti> apw: we introduced a new dh_gencontrol wrapper for dbgsyms for bug 1448247, and it seems that interferes with the manual dbgsym creation in the kernel, argh
<ubottu> bug 1448247 in pkg-create-dbgsym (Ubuntu W-series) "pkg-create-dbgsym creates -dbgsym packages with the source version, not the binary version" [Critical,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1448247
<apw> pitti, yeah we don't have version skew as far as i know, but ... indeed ... blamo
<pitti> apw: is that some PPA?
<apw> pitti, yep, the canonical-kernel-team/ubuntu/ppa
<wgrant> Oh, hm.
<wgrant> Maybe this will break anything that uses dh_strip -p but a non-specific dh_gencontrol?
<pitti> apw: filed as bug 1450464
<ubottu> bug 1450464 in pkg-create-dbgsym (Ubuntu Vivid) "dh_gencontrol wrapper breaks kernel dbgsym generation" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1450464
<pitti> wgrant: no, pretty special to the kernel package
<pitti> as that creates -dbgsyms entirely by itself; so it seems at that point the -dbgsym package dir exists, but not its DEBIAN/control
<wgrant> h, right.
<pitti> which is a bit odd *after* you call dh_gencontrol
<pitti> but I figure the -dbgsym isn't in debian/control
<wgrant> IIRC they are, but they are built as debs then renamed to ddebs later.
<wgrant> But the rename only happens when the ddeb flag is enabled in LP, IIRC.
 * pitti goes to fix
<pitti> I think I'll let dh_strip place a marker into DEBIAN/, and dh_gencontrol will only process the package if that marker exists
<pitti> that seems safest
<pitti> that way, if someone else creates a -dbgsym/ our dh_gencontrol won't touch it
<wgrant> Yeah, that sounds reasonable.
<henrix> pitti: so, if i understood correctly, once that fix is done, i can simply hit the 'retry' button and the kernel should build ok
<pitti> henrix: right; I'll test it in https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/+archive/ubuntu/ddeb-test before
<henrix> pitti: awesome, thanks!  do you have an ETA for having that fixed?
<pitti> henrix: probably best to subscribe to that bug, then you'll know exactly when what happens?
<henrix> pitti: ack, will do
<pitti> henrix: shouldn't take more than an hour or two for creating a test and the fix, then rebuilding the kernel
<henrix> pitti: ok, cool
<pitti> henrix: but landing it everywhere might take until Monday, I'm afraid
<pitti> henrix: until then, you can of course copy the fixed mangler into the kernel PPA
<cjwatson> pitti: why so long?
<cjwatson> this seems like it can be a pretty quick test job
<pitti> the kernel takes a while to build, doesn't it?
<cjwatson> yeah, but would be ready by tomorrow
<cjwatson> and I really want new ddebs switched on for W opening
<pitti> yeah
<pitti> well, let me do that fix first
<cjwatson> and TBH an x86 kernel isn't going to take *that* long
<pitti> I'll try to get online tomorrow for some time, but we have some things planned
<cjwatson> pitti: can William and I sort it out if it looks plausible?
<pitti> of course
<pitti> it's mostly the SRU/verification mechanics at that point
<pitti> cjwatson: anyway, this doesn't block the ddeb flag in LP, does it?
<pitti> cjwatson: seems the kernel build will break either way
<cjwatson> pitti: I guess that's true, so wgrant could turn that on any time
<pitti> *nod*
<doko> jamespage, are the openstack packages for 14.04 already compatible with python 2.7.9?
<pitti> ok, reproduced with a simple test case
<wgrant> Right, given this dseems under control and irrelevant, I might flip it all back on and watch for fireworks.
<wgrant> cjwatson: (not enabling it on the silos until the next LP ndt, since the API to make it less arduous is in the rev after what's on prod now)
<pitti> wgrant: btw, I cleared https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/+archive/ubuntu/ddeb-test/+packages about an hour ago, but it still says "1.9 GiB (95.91%) of 2.0 GiB"
<pitti> wgrant: can I still build a kernel there, or will that fail with ENOSPC or so?
<cjwatson> wgrant: yup
<cjwatson> pitti: probably waiting for garbage collection; I've doubled its quota
<pitti> thanks
<pitti> hm, where did my dput to the PPA go..
<pitti> henrix, cjwatson, wgrant: test case and fix are in bzr, uploaded to PPA; once it appears and is published I'll copy the kernel there for a test-build
<henrix> pitti: great, thanks
<pitti> wgrant: hm, might I have broken something by deleting all the packages and uploading ../pkg-create-dbgsym_0.66pitti1_source.changes ? it's a newer version than what I had before, but so far I neither got an accept nor reject
<pitti> and it's been 7 minutes now, it usually appears in one minute or so
<pitti> ah, and of course there it is, sorry for the noise
<pitti> cjwatson, wgrant, henrix: trusty/utopic/vivid SRUs uploaded, vivid kernel building in PPA; the precise backport still causes some trouble, I'll look after that later; I need to run out for a bit for some errands
<bdmurray> LocutusOfBorg1: I get the form emails as of recently and will sort out your accesss
<bdmurray> LocutusOfBorg1: you should be able to access one of the crashes now, two of them OOPS and I'll look into that today
<bdmurray> https://errors.ubuntu.com/problem/35bb694c581825f0eec62d1fcc38e7654941fbcb
<LocutusOfBorg1> <3
<LocutusOfBorg1> bdmurray,  Linux 3.19.0-031900-generic x86_64
<LocutusOfBorg1> the users have a too new kernel that is preventing dkms from compiling
<LocutusOfBorg1> so at least https://errors.ubuntu.com/oops/066b8ec0-ef3c-11e4-9f4b-fa163e4aaad4 is invalid
<fginther> pitti, do you know why 'build-essential' is explicitly added to the trusty adt testbeds?
<fginther> pitti, it is not added to utopic or vivid
<fginther> jibel, perhaps you know? ^
<infinity> fginther: Because it was there (unintentionally) during trusty development, so there are tests that depend on it, and making the testbed consistent with when the tests were written is easier/saner than auditing all the tests.
<pitti> fginther: right, what infinity said; mostly for avoiding breaking trusty tests
<fginther> infinity, thanks, that was what I needed to know
<pitti> now a lot of them are broken for different reasons :/ but it did help for some at least
<infinity> pitti: Where are we at with pkg-create-dbgsym blocking the kernel?  Should I just copy your -proposed uploads to the kernel PPA, so they can be unblocked while we validate?
<pitti> infinity: I'm doing test builds in https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/+archive/ubuntu/ddeb-test/+packages
<pitti> infinity: sure, we can copy it there, too
<pitti> infinity: I haven't tested it with a full kernel yet, just with the small test case (but the error there was exactly the same)
<infinity> pitti: Is there a worse potential failure mode than an FTBFS?  Cause I'm okay with burning CPU on a potential FTBFS, less keen on a broken build result.
<pitti> infinity: can hardly get worse indeed
<infinity> pitti: Okay, all accepted to -proposed.  As soon as the binaries publish, I'll copy to the ckt PPA and retry their failed builds.
<pitti> infinity: precise is in the queue as well now (although I wouldn't mind waiting for the test build first -- you can copy p-c-d from my PPA to the kernel PPA rather?)
<infinity> pitti: Too late. :P
<pitti> ok :)
<barry> doko, bdmurray check your email. i think i have the solution
<bdmurray> barry: in that conversation, about python-pip, I'd asked about gathering better information with apport. Do you think getting the ~/.pip/pip.log would help? I just happened to run across a report with pip install httpie so got lucky there
<barry> bdmurray: i don't think it necessarily helps.  i understand what's going on now.
<bdmurray> barry: I don't mean with this specific situation, but generally for future python-pip issues.
<barry> bdmurray: ah, in that case, i think it certainly couldn't hurt
<bdmurray> barry: okay, and then are you good with overriding the regression since the same issue exists with the release version of python-pip?
<barry> bdmurray: i think i don't understand what "override the regression" means.  does it just mean that the two errors will land in the same bucket?
<bdmurray> barry: it means that the update of python-pip has stopped phasing and only reached 10% of users - http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/phased-updates.html If we override the errors then it will start rephasing at 20%.
<bdmurray> and might stop again if new errors are found
<barry> bdmurray: then i'm tempted not to override yet.  i want to see what doko thinks about my proposed solution (make python-pip depend on python-pip-whl).  until that happens i think we'll just keep getting errors, albeit perhaps infrequently
<bdmurray> barry: got it
#ubuntu-devel 2015-05-01
<pitti> henrix, infinity, cjwatson: I set bug 1450464 to v-done, both the canonical kernel ppa as well as my ddebs-test ppa built fine
<ubottu> bug 1450464 in pkg-create-dbgsym (Ubuntu W-series) "dh_gencontrol wrapper breaks kernel dbgsym generation" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1450464
<jasabella> hi
<jasabella> anybody home? :)
<cjwatson> pitti: Great, thank you
<cjwatson> pitti: Want me to copy that everywhere?
<Odd_Bloke> vivid-updates isn't an option to search for on packages.ubuntu.com; is that a consequence of not have w yet?
<pete-woods1> pitti: hi there! I have another MR for dbusmock: https://github.com/martinpitt/python-dbusmock/pull/9
<pete-woods1> pitti: this one's pretty trivial, though
<fazer> hi, I'm trying to upload  a patched package to PPA with dput, but I'm getting errors like: Uploading qtbase-opensource-src_5.4.1+dfsg-2ubuntu4ppa1.dsc: 550 Requested action not taken: internal server error
<fazer> and errors: [Errno 110] Connection timed out
<cjwatson> fazer: seems to be timing out trying to establish a data connection.  do you perhaps have dput configured to use active FTP, or is it otherwise possible that NAT at your end is getting in the way?
<cjwatson> fazer: you could also try using SFTP rather than FTP (which can be configured in dput.cf)
 * cjwatson has to go
<fazer> cjwatson: before I came here I switched from passive to active and it didn't work, I'll check sftp
<fazer> cjwatson: sftp doesn't work, I get "qtbase-opensource-src_5.4.1+dfsg-2ubuntu4ppa1.dsc: Permission denied (publickey). Unable to connect to SSH host ppa.launchpad.net; EOF during negotiation"
<sarnold> fazer: (guessing) does launchpad know your ssh public key?
<fazer> sarnold: it doesn't
<fazer> sarnold: I'll try to fix that
<fazer> sarnold: woohoo it worked! :-D
<sarnold> fazer: nice :)
<Unit193> debhelper 9.20150501+ddebs uploaded to experimental
#ubuntu-devel 2015-05-02
<norris_> not sure if this is the best way...but any tips on how to resolve bug #1268257 for -331?
<ubottu> bug 1268257 in nvidia-graphics-drivers-331-updates (Ubuntu) "nvidia-331-updates 331.38-0ubuntu3: nvidia-331-updates kernel module failed to build, with only error: "objdump: '... .tmp_nv.o': No such file"" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1268257
<jasabella> hi
<TenLeftFingers_> I want to modify an icon for an application as a patch. What's the quickest way to check out a branch from launchpad? I'll be submitting as an attachment on the bug itself so I was hoping to avoid using a new system too much.
<TenLeftFingers_> Ok, I see launchpad is in fact a frontend for bazaar. This might do me: http://doc.bazaar.canonical.com/latest/en/mini-tutorial/
<TenLeftFingers_> This is regarding https://bugs.launchpad.net/dekko/+bug/1450907
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1450907 in Dekko "Dekko's icon colour should match that of the app" [Wishlist,Triaged]
<Bluefoxicy> oht my god
<Bluefoxicy> if i keep plugging in and unplugging USB HID devices, they stop working on that USB controller
#ubuntu-devel 2015-05-03
<jasabella> hi
<jasabella> hi
<Anupkumar> pitti: ping
#ubuntu-devel 2016-05-02
<mwhudson> huh, shouldn't DEB_BUILD_MAINT_OPTIONS=hardening=-pie turn off PIE, even on yakkety?
<slangasek> mwhudson: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/dpkg/+bug/1576915
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1576915 in dpkg (Ubuntu) "dpkg-buildflags should explicitly pass -fno-PIE and -no-pie if DEB_BUILD_HARDENING_PIE=0 is set" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<mwhudson> slangasek: whee!
<mwhudson> slangasek: any eta on a fix?
<mwhudson> golang-race-detector-runtime ftbfs in yakkety and setting DEB_BUILD_MAINT_OPTIONS=hardening=-pie would be the obvious fix
<slangasek> mwhudson: nope, so far it's unassigned
<slangasek> mwhudson: in absence of this, you can workaround it with DEB_CFLAGS_MAINT_APPEND=-no-pie, I think?
<mwhudson> slangasek: i was trying to be clever and come up with something that would work on multiple releases :-)
<mwhudson> but yeah
<slangasek> heh yes
<mwhudson> .. if i'm actually right about what's causing the failure
<mwhudson> oh it's linking a test binary and it ignores LDFLAGS
<kees> mwhudson: can you add the error you saw the description of the fix for it to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ToolChain/CompilerFlags ? (it'll need a PIE section added)
<kees> sbeattie: ^^ we should have a section on PIE here
<mwhudson> sure
<kees> sbeattie: and should likely be updated to discuss -fstack-protector-strong
<mwhudson> well
<mwhudson> i can make some edits and click save
<mwhudson> i'm not responsible for what does or doesn't happen next :-)
<mwhudson> kees: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ToolChain/CompilerFlags#thread_sanitizer_vs_PIE
<kees> mwhudson: awesome! thanks :)
<kees> mwhudson: oh, I thought you found a different solution (missing LDFLAGS?)
<mwhudson> kees: that was specific to the package i was building
<kees> or was it that both were needed?
<mwhudson> yeah
<kees> gotcha. thanks!
<pitti> Good morning
<arthur-dent> Could anyone tell me what has happened to the /var/log/boot.log file on Ubuntu 16.04 as it was present there on 15.10 but I can't find it on the latest version? Has it been removed and replaced or...?
<dobey> arthur-dent: there's a boot.log for me
<arthur-dent> Well, I, and many other users can seem to find it on a fresh install... It's there if you upgrade from a previous version with it, but not on a fresh install. Is it meant to be there?
<tseliot> pitti: hi, do you know why u-d-c is still in yakkety-proposed?
<infinity> tseliot: update_excuses knows.
<tseliot> infinity: oh, nice, a totally unrelated regression...
<tseliot> pitti: bcmwl fails for some reason https://objectstorage.prodstack4-5.canonical.com/v1/AUTH_77e2ada1e7a84929a74ba3b87153c0ac/autopkgtest-yakkety/yakkety/amd64/u/ubuntu-drivers-common/20160430_074409@/log.gz
<infinity> "for some reason" probably has to do with -fPIE compiler changes.
<infinity> It's an ongoing discussion.
<tseliot> fun. How do I get around it?
<infinity> Wait patiently?
<infinity> Is it harming your life currently to have a package in proposed?
<tseliot> not my life, as I don't use nvidia. Anybody who does, though, might beg to differ ;)
<infinity> dkms on yakkety is hit and miss broken right now anyway, due to the compiler changes, so...
<tseliot> ok, so it won't really make much of a difference after all
<tseliot> fair enough
<doko> Mirv, did you mean to turn on tests again in qtbase-opensource-src ?
<slangasek> lan3y: hi, it appears that the new vala synced in yakkety causes build failures because we have an older version of gtk+3.0: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity-greeter/16.10.0-0ubuntu2/+build/9679540 is gtk+3.0 merge on your todo?
<infinity> slangasek: GTK merge is needed for a lot of things, the last word I got was that the desktop team needs to hunt someone down to fix the unity themes for the new GTK.
<slangasek> k
<seb128> slangasek, no, we might not update to 3.20 at all this cycle, see bug #1576576
<ubottu> bug 1576576 in Mozilla Firefox "Update to 3.20 needs work and coordination" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1576576
<slangasek> seb128: alrighty; then can someone fix vala instead? :)
<seb128> sure
<seb128> (not likely today though)
<slangasek> seb128: sure :)  do you want a bug report or anything?
<infinity> seb128: Oh, erk.  Last I heard wasn't that we wouldn't update at all...
<infinity> seb128: There are autosyncs coming in that depend on it, so we'll have to sort out what to do about that.
<seb128> slangasek, you can if you want but we are going to deal with those even without bug
<seb128> infinity, well, we are not going to update if it breaks things, so we need to fix the themes and apps before updating, let's see if we get anyone stepping up to do that
<seb128> our desktop team theme maintainer left and there is probably quite some non-trivial work to do there, which is not on the top of our priorities for the cycle
<seb128> I doubt many things depends on new GTK, it's mostly GNOME usually and most of that has patches for unity or some delta, we might have to patch the use of new gtk out/revert for a few things though
<showaz> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2016-May/003739.html  no minimal-cd network deploy?
<showaz> 2gd + deploy kvm,vmware etc... time install downup
<infinity> tjaalton: When do I get a xenial HWE stack?
<dobey> hmm
<xnox> cyphermox, apt install libu2f-host0
<dobey> might be good to warn in very big and AMD-red letters that people staying on 14.04.x for fglrx support should NOT install the 14.04.5 xenial HWE stack?
<infinity> dobey: That'll be super fun when we drop support for the previous stacks.
<xnox> infinity, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/yaboot/+bug/1400030
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1400030 in yaboot (Ubuntu) "ofpath generates wrong OpenFirmware path for boot device" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<xnox> infinity, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/yaboot/+bug/1575384
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1400030 in yaboot (Ubuntu) "duplicate for #1575384 ofpath generates wrong OpenFirmware path for boot device" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<dobey> infinity: yeah; wonder what mark would say about it :)
<cyphermox> xnox: installed
<slangasek> cjwatson: hey, re: bug #1576353, either I'm misunderstanding something or you are
<ubottu> bug 1576353 in openssh (Ubuntu) "Install openssh-server with disabled password auth by default on servers" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1576353
<ochosi> seb128: just my 2 cents, the xubuntu theme is basically in a similar state as the unity themes (even a tad better, tbh) but gtk3.20 means a *rewrite*, not just some refactoring or incremental changes
<tjaalton> dobey: already being discussed with amd and their hybrid driver schedule
<tjaalton> infinity: soon
<doko> infinity, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/dpkg/+bug/1576915
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1576915 in dpkg (Ubuntu) "dpkg-buildflags should explicitly pass -fno-PIE and -no-pie if DEB_BUILD_{MAINT_,}OPTIONS=hardening=-pie is set" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<seb128> ochosi, k, feel free to write that on the bug report, that's useful information, as said earlier we should try to break no flavor with the update so better to list things that needs to be worked on before landing
<cjwatson> slangasek: the man pages are clear as mud, but I think I see what you mean from the linked blog posts.  It would be a big patch though, and not one I'm willing to maintain as a distro patch or (TBH) write myself; needs to go upstream
<slangasek> cjwatson: check :)
<de-facto> how do i install all build-dependencies when im inside a package root directory (which has "debian" dir inside it) from a script?
<de-facto> e.g. those shown as error when i run dpkg-buildpackage
<de-facto> i want to install them in a automated way
<slangasek> de-facto: by running 'sudo mk-build-deps -i -r'
<mwhudson> you can point apt build-dep at the dsc as well
<de-facto> nice can i default to "yes dont ask me just install them"?
<de-facto> i just have a "debian" dir
<de-facto> i want this to run through in a script without user interaction
<de-facto> something like     mk-build-deps ; sudo dpkg -i *.deb ; rm *.deb ; sudo apt-get -y -f install     maybe?
<mwhudson> de-facto: did you see the flags slangasek mentioned?
<mwhudson> -i -r
<slangasek> fwiw if you want to skip the apt install prompt you need an extra -t 'apt-get o Debug::pkgProblemResolver=yes -y'
<de-facto> ah nice thats what i need ;))
<de-facto> sudo mk-build-deps -i -r -t 'apt-get -o Debug::pkgProblemResolver=yes --no-install-recommends -y'
<de-facto> seems to work thanks guys
<rlaager> Does anyone have a fresh *GUI* install of 16.04 handy? I'm looking for the group memberships of a user created by the installer. A server install has adm cdrom sudo dip plugdev lxd lpadmin sambashare.
<de-facto> rlaager its not completely fresh but i guess on ubuntu-gnome it would be something like <username> adm cdrom sudo dip plugdev lpadmin sambashare
<rlaager> de-facto: Thanks.
#ubuntu-devel 2016-05-03
<Mirv> dobey: at some point yes, but qt 5.4 for vivid overlay and 5.6 for xenial overlay is higher priority than debugging what broke in yakkedy. I will first test how Qt 5.6 seems on yakkety, to see if it's different than the 5.5.
<Mirv> (also, sick lately and it seems today would become another such day argh)
<flexiondotorg> Morning
<flexiondotorg> mdeslaur, If you have a moment I'd like to better understand how Firefox and Chromium compare with regard to how they are updated and receive security updates in Ubuntu.
<willcooke> barry, are you able to attend this session later?  http://summit.ubuntu.com/uos-1605/meeting/22675/finish-move-to-py3/
<mdeslaur> flexiondotorg: sure, what do you want to know?
<flexiondotorg> mdeslaur, Is Chromium afforded the same attention as Firefox with regard to version updates and security updates?
<mdeslaur> flexiondotorg: chromium is in universe, it's not officially supported. Since it's a popular package, we do have a developer doing updates.
<mdeslaur> flexiondotorg: but it's best-effort only
<mdeslaur> we're not currently able to publish every single update
<flexiondotorg> mdeslaur, OK, that answers my question.
<mdeslaur> and when new major versions come out, it takes a while before we're able to get it to build on all archs and publish it
<flexiondotorg> I saw Kylin seed it.
<mdeslaur> yes, a couple of flavours do seed it
<flexiondotorg> mdeslaur, Thanks. I'll bes ticking with Firefox in the seeds then :-)
<mdeslaur> that's what I would recommend, yes
<flexiondotorg> If it were in main, I'd likely switch to Chromium for Ubuntu MATE.
<pitti> Good morning
<dobey> Mirv: ok, but no idea why you're telling me about qt in yakkety :)
<caribou> Laney: ping
<caribou> Laney: I would need your help for LP: #1335068
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1335068 in trusty-backports "Please backport apache2 2.4.10-1ubuntu1 (main) from Utopic" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1335068
<caribou> Laney: I think I've done all the testing I could
<barry> willcooke: yes
<willcooke> thanks barry
<barry> willcooke: if my math is right, that's in about 1h10m, right?
<willcooke> barry, yeah
<barry> cool
<dholbach> willcooke, xnox: who of you is going to run the py3 session later on?
<willcooke> dholbach, I can do it
<dholbach> cool
<Mirv> dobey: right, it was for doko :)
<doko> Mirv, so what did you tell me?
<Mirv> doko: first line at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2016/05/03/%23ubuntu-devel.txt . and this day turned into sick leave then too but eventually, there shall be progress...
<xnox> barry, will you make the py3 only session?
<barry> xnox: i'm already there. :)
<xnox> barry, it's in half an hour? or is it now now?
<barry> xnox: oh, yeah 23m.  i'm an irc early bird :)
<xnox> barry, which channel?
<barry> xnox: #ubuntu-uos-core.  i'm in the summit session but i guess the live hangout url will be posted closer to session start
<LocutusOfBorg> hi, can anybody please make "tar" migrate (aka do you think we can ignore lava-* testsuite failure? I think we should)
<zyga> we use lava in ubuntu? wow
<ogra_> zyga, to keep the tar fluid obviously :)
<zyga> lol
<LocutusOfBorg> infinity, ^^ wrt tar migration
<LocutusOfBorg> thanks <
<LocutusOfBorg> <3
<hallyn> doko: hey - was there a specific blocking problem which caused you to multi-arch-ify libvirt0?
<hallyn> Asking to try and decide how to justify pushing the patch to debian
<doko> hallyn, is there a reason not to multiarchify? also it's already forwarded: https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=813062
<ubottu> Debian bug 813062 in src:libvirt "please multiarchify the library packages" [Normal,Open]
<cjwatson> it's 2016.  multiarching a library shouldn't require justification
<hallyn> doko: oh, ok, thx
<hallyn> cjwatson: <shrug>  there was a very nasty lp bug reporter complaining about it
<cjwatson> *not* multiarching should require a justification :)
<hallyn> bc he then went on to install from upstream and it installed in /usr/lib/ and messed him up
<hallyn> doko: cool, thanks :)
<cjwatson> all sorts of reasons why that sort of thing might break confusingly ...
<hallyn> cjwatson: no kidding.
<hallyn> but then i was wondering why debian hadn't yet,
<hallyn> well, mind you, for libvirt in particular i'm really not sure having two versions sitting around makes sense.
<doko> hallyn, but I wanted a /usr/lib without .so files, which should be true for the cloud and desktop images. yeah, that's not a reasonable goal, I agree ;)
<doko> hallyn, people who explicitly configure with --prefix=/usr should know that they can break things
<pitti> smoser: printf "lxc.aa_profile=unconfined\nlxc.seccomp=" | lxc profile set default raw.lxc -
<pitti> smoser: bug 1577844
<ubottu> bug 1577844 in ifupdown (Ubuntu) "don't run ifup@.service before networking.service" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1577844
<nneul> Did something weird happen with security updates very recently for libssl1.0.0?
<nneul> Seeing something where it looks like I got a -4.1 update from security for 16.04, but now it's not there, and causing all sorts of dependency headaches.
<nneul> argh. looks like mirroring script is screwing up somehow.
<hallyn> well this probably isn't good...  http://paste.ubuntu.com/16206598/  (apport giving "Error('Incorrect padding',)")
<hallyn> on a curl crash report
<hallyn> to do with libtls
<hallyn> on a day when we have openssl security updates
 * hallyn should just unplug all the cables and stop for the day
<doko> cjwatson, did you omit some uploads for ffmpeg rdeps by intent?
<cjwatson> doko: yes, I wanted to look more closely at the ones that already had ubuntuN modifications
<cjwatson> I'll get round to it :)
<doko> pitti,  these packages have failing autopkg tests blocking the json-c transition: upstart python-astropy fwts vtk6 vtk mir
<CarlFK> roadmr: is this something you can help with?  (u-installer went quiet)   debconf: --> PROGRESS INFO base-installer/section/pick_kernel  ...  base-installer: info: Found kernels ''
<CarlFK> dialog "no kernels will be installed."
<Logan> nacc: is it safe to sync over your bootstrapping deltas for PHP packages that use phpunit? or would you prefer that those changes be forwarded to Debian?
<roadmr> CarlFK: ugh? is this a server or desktop install? could you share your preseed?
<CarlFK> roadmr:  netboot installer,  https://github.com/CarlFK/veyepar/tree/master/setup/nodes/pxe/shaz/var/www/d-i/xenial
<roadmr> CarlFK: let me try running that locally, may be a bit slow as I'm on a call heh
<CarlFK> those files worked on wily, but you guys keep developing new features :p
<nacc> Logan: it's on my todo to forward to debian this week or next
<Logan> ok sounds good
<roadmr> CarlFK: hehe :) need to keep breaking things, else there's nothing to fix
<sergiusens> slangasek I ask Martin Pitt already, but maybe you know https://objectstorage.prodstack4-5.canonical.com/v1/AUTH_77e2ada1e7a84929a74ba3b87153c0ac/autopkgtest-yakkety/yakkety/amd64/s/snapcraft/20160503_163410@/log.gz
<sergiusens> slangasek I get those for every yakkety push (it's python apt based code). Martin thinks it might be libapt
<pitti> no, I was saying it looks like it fails in apt, not in python-apt
<sergiusens> pitti oh, I didn't want to wake you :-)
<pitti> the URLs look oddly corrupted, though
<sergiusens> pitti right, did I say the same thing incorrectly?
<pitti> sergiusens: no, not really, I just meant it's not necessarily a bug in apt itself
<pitti> just that I think it's very unlikely to be a bug in python-apt
<sergiusens> right, I would agree
<pitti> might be anywhere between some odd testbed setup failure or some weird fallout from -fPIE (as it only happens on amd64 and it works on xenial)
<pitti> I didn't see other apt failures on amd64 which look similar, but this is using apt with some temporary APTROOT, right?
<pitti> but apport's tests do that too, and that works
<pitti> sergiusens: so I guess in short, no real idea -- this needs reproducing and investigating locally
<pitti> sergiusens: do you get this locally in qemu/lxc?
<sergiusens> pitti yup, apt_cache = apt.Cache(rootdir=rootdir, memonly=True)
<sergiusens> pitti I need to redo my lxc image sources, I don't see yakkety images on the public server
<pitti> pool/main/p/python-\nsetuptools
<pitti> parts/spongeshaker/ubuntu/do\nwnload
<pitti> there are a lot of those spurious \n
<sergiusens> pitti those error messages are broken, don't be lead off track by that; that is just a combination of dedent and that test collection thing I forget the name of
<sergiusens> pitti the ones in the middle should be easier to read (integration tests)
<sergiusens> the example ones will spit messages out like that
<sergiusens> pitti subunit is the word I was missing
<sergiusens> pitti any idea how to lxc launch a yakkety image?
<pitti> sergiusens: images.linuxcontainers.org has had yakkety for several days now
<pitti> sergiusens: adt-build-lxd images:ubuntu/yakkety/amd64
<pitti> adt-run ... --- lxd adt/ubuntu/yakkety/amd64
<sergiusens> pitti ah, it does! sorry, was looking at ubuntu-daily:
<pitti> sergiusens: yeah, no cloud images yet, and they are also a bit impractical for testing
<sergiusens> pitti thanks, yeah I just want to write some micro python code to see if I see the issue
<ginggs> xnox: sorry i missed your boost patch in debian's svn. Here's another that might be useful https://github.com/boostorg/graph/commit/6197b9c54932f161806ac6fb28344f6e245c7891 (gentoo are carrying it)
<slangasek> sergiusens: no idea on that, no
<Pwnna> does anyone know what tzdata does with openjdk7?
<Pwnna> there's a tzdata-java package but i dont quite understand what it's purpose is
<Pwnna> the build also has a flag to turn that off, too
<roadmr> CarlFK: so I installed installation-guide-amd64, it has a sample preseed and it has some differences from yours, maybe that's why it barfs?
<roadmr> CarlFK: you have d-i grub-installer/choose_bootdev   select  /dev/sdb
<roadmr> CarlFK: the example shows something like d-i grub-installer/bootdev  string /dev/sdb
<sergiusens> pitti reproduced locally as well http://paste.ubuntu.com/16208917/
<CarlFK> roadmr: hmm... I am skeptical that string/select is the problem.  the dialog says "No installable kernel was found in the defined APT sources"
<roadmr> CarlFK: but it's more like choose_bootdev vs. bootdev
<CarlFK> ah, missed that
<roadmr> CarlFK: also, if you want the linux-generic kernel, isn't that the default? maybe not setting that would work?
<roadmr> CarlFK: I'm running a test with your preseeds and aside from 2 tiny fixes, it's going along just fine. not done yet though...
<cjwatson> string/select cannot possibly be the problem
<sergiusens> pitti this is the "script" http://paste.ubuntu.com/16208927/ ... to note is that if I manually create 'partial' it all works (I don't think I should though)
<roadmr> CarlFK: (tweaks: removing your custom pre_cmd and pywxgtk 3.0 instead of 2.8)
<cjwatson> that bit is totally informational
<CarlFK> those lines trying to set it is my trying to work around it ... I stared with not setting it
<cjwatson> (FWIW)
<CarlFK> cjwatson: thanks.  and Hi!
<cjwatson> I'm not really here :)
<sergiusens> pitti if python apt asks me for a "downloaddir" anything inside it should be its responsibility, right?
<CarlFK> Shhh
<sergiusens> I don't want to create 'partial' and then have it fail because the dir exists ;-)
<roadmr> cjwatson: thanks! any idea what could cause the "No installable kernel" assuming CarlFK has d-i mirror/http/hostname string archive.ubuntu.com and d-i mirror/http/directory string /ubuntu? (but also a d-i mirror/http/proxy string http://somethingsomething)
<roadmr> ohh... ghost colin!
<cjwatson> that usually means the d-i build is out of sync with the kernel versions in the archive
<cjwatson> but I can't tell just from that, would need to see the whole syslog
<cjwatson> and need to do kids' bedtime first
<roadmr> cjwatson: enjoy your evening!
<roadmr> brb
<CarlFK> roadmr:  all the flavors of grub bootdev are commented out, so that isn't it.
<CarlFK> http://paste.ubuntu.com/16209123/  15629 lines of log as html.  is there a better way to post stuff like this?
<xnox> pitti, adt-run libpng --- lxd ubuntu:xenial fails for me, what am i doing wrong?
<pitti> xnox: what does it fail on?
<doko> cjwatson, that's left from the ffmpeg transition tracker: ffmpegthumbs freshplayerplugin bombono-dvd alsa-plugins-extra pjproject survex
<Unit193> Heh, freshplayerplugin was just uploaded to Debian today.
<nacc> CarlFK: roadmr: this seems like the underlying issue, right?
<nacc> "--> SET base-installer/kernel/image linux-generic"
<nacc> "<-- 10 base-installer/kernel/image doesn't exist"
<cjwatson> doko: I have the tracker open in a tab, no need to read it out to me :)
<nacc> cjwatson: --^ I guess they were asking you earlier
<CarlFK> nacc: kinda.  if I don't preseed, it finds and installs a kernel.
<doko> cjwatson, I wanted to say that the others are addressed
<nacc> CarlFK: which preseed file specifies linux-generic?
<CarlFK> nacc: um.. nothing?  if something did, then it wouldn't stop and ask me.  I think.
<nacc> CarlFK: ah sorry, misunderstood earlier; so you are simply getting a "No installable kernel" message?
<CarlFK> nacc: I didn't need it for wily.  "(03:51:45 PM) cyphermox: there were some changes in base-installer"
<CarlFK> yea - "No installable kernel was found in the defined APT sources"
<cjwatson> CarlFK: that syslog seems to be truncated before what I would need.
<CarlFK> cjwatson: hmm, you are right: carl@twist:~/mnt/cware1/d/cnt3/log$ wc syslog
<CarlFK>   19255  163177 1284317 syslog
<cyphermox> CarlFK: there are missing lines in the pastebin
<CarlFK> lol - my racksapce uploader isn't python3 ... TypeError: attribute name must be string, not 'bytes'
<CarlFK> http://img.flnet.org/a/syslog
<sarnold> zounds :)
<sarnold> heh, xz shrinks that to ~65K
<CarlFK> I never know how much to cook stuff like this
<sarnold> yeah, tough choice
<sarnold> it was mostly my idle curiosity when I saw how reptitive it is, just how well it could compress.
<zyga> how can I get a fix into libsdl1.2 into xeanial?
<doko> zyga, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
<nacc> zyga: file a bug?
<zyga> nacc: on the packge?
<doko> zyga, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
<zyga> thanks
<Unit193> sarnold: I got 60K. ;)
<nacc> zyga: yeah, you can use ubuntu-bug, iirc, or just use the luanchpad UI. the above links will help clarify if the fix you found satifies the SRU rules
<sarnold> Unit193: probably Kibibytes vs Kilobytes difference? :) 65552 bytes..
<zyga> hmm
<Unit193> sarnold: -9e, so 61248
<zyga> so this doesn't qualify for SRU
<sarnold> ahhh
<zyga> but then without this nothing using SDL will work in snappy
<zyga> I need some ideas
<sarnold> zyga: got a bug number?
<teward> ^ i was about to ask heh
<teward> sarnold: you aren't in my brain are you ;P
<sarnold> afternoon teward :)
<teward> good evening, sarnold.
<sarnold> teward: heh, i'm not in -my- brain anyway, maybe my train of thought decided to take a vacation..
<teward> lol
<zyga> sarnold: not yet, jush documenting the patch now
<zyga> the patch: http://paste.ubuntu.com/16209626/
<nacc> zyga: is this a backport?
<zyga> nacc: no
<zyga> nacc: this is xenial libsdl1.2
<sarnold> zyga: it feels sruable to me. note the spaces vs tabs.
<zyga> yeah, I just noticed, I'll fix that
<zyga> though perhaps tomorrow, it almost 2AM for me :/
<zyga> if anyone wants to help by picking that up and doing the paperwork that would be my deam come true
<zyga> this makes SDL games work on snappy
<zyga> specifically scummvm and anything that uses it :)
<zyga> with in-place edited tabs: http://paste.ubuntu.com/16209644/
<cjwatson> CarlFK: ah.  sigh, the overlay stuff is buggy
<cjwatson> CarlFK: change your preseed of apt-setup/local0/repository from "http://ppa.launchpad.net/timvideos/fpga-support/ubuntu wily main" to "deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/timvideos/fpga-support/ubuntu wily main"
<cjwatson> apt-setup allows both forms, base-installer only likes the latter
<CarlFK> cjwatson: so just add deb in the front?
<cjwatson> yes
<cjwatson> regression from https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/base-installer/+bug/1250930
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1250930 in net-retriever (Ubuntu) "[d-i] merge in overlay archive support" [High,Fix released]
<CarlFK> cool.  thanks!
<cjwatson> regression-ish anyway
<CarlFK> lol
<cjwatson> anyway the result of that bug was that apt was sufficiently sad that we couldn't get the list of available kernels out of it
<cjwatson> oh look it's https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/base-installer/+bug/1512347
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1512347 in base-installer (Ubuntu) "invalid sources.list generated from reading apt-setup/local0/repository" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<cjwatson> cyphermox: ^- you might want to consider SRUing that for xenial?
<cjwatson> uploading for yakkety
<zyga> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libsdl1.2/+bug/1577986
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1577986 in libsdl1.2 (Ubuntu) "SDL 1.2 crashes on snappy, breaks scummvm" [Undecided,New]
<sarnold> zyga: don't forget to update the dep-3 tags in the morning :)
<zyga> yeah I know
<zyga> I'm super tired, time to EOD
<sarnold> hehe that mght have been a few hours ago :)
<sarnold> night zyga
#ubuntu-devel 2016-05-04
<smoser> pitti, around ?
<smoser> i think i relize the issue with letting the udevrule go through.
<smoser> cloud-init wont have written the .link file to rename at the point when the udev rule processes the .link
<smoser> so cloud-init local *will* have to re-trigger or otherwise have the systemd.link stuff fire again
<smoser> how were you re-triggering with udev to get the .links processed ?
<cyphermox> cjwatson: yes, will SRU. thanks. I was looking hard at base-installer, not at apt-setup :/
<cyphermox> or at least, not at that part of base-installer that has apt-setup keys.
<cyphermox> between us we might manage to really fix the overlay code.
<smoser> pitti, 'udevadm test-builtin net_setup_link /sys/class/net/ens4' works to show that the cloud-init written .link files do the right thing.
<smoser> but i think i have to re-send the hotplug event to get it renamed.
<CarlFK> https://help.ubuntu.com/lts/installation-guide/armhf/apbs04.html#preseed-apt   how do I get it to not #comment out deb-src  lines?  (new in xenial)
<zyga> good morning
<tjaalton> wgrant: still around? I sent a soyuz question (#293230) about bumping the size of ppa:canonical-x/x-staging, llvm is taking all the space preparing next lts stack :)
<wgrant> how on earth
<wgrant> It's already 8GiB!
 * wgrant doubles
<tjaalton> llvm is big
<tjaalton> thanks!
<mwhudson> is there a script for doing the Maintainers: Ubuntu Developers, XSBC-Original-Maintainers: thing?
<Laney> mwhudson: updata-maintainer
<Laney> with spelling that is good
<mwhudson> Laney: thanks
<mwhudson> oh wow, python, i was expecting perl :-)
<Laney> it was probably written this decade :P
<zyga> hey mwhudson
<cjwatson> CarlFK: d-i apt-setup/enable-source-repositories boolean true
<sil2100> mvo: hey! Is it ok for me to release the currently staged changes in livecd-rootfs to yakkety?
<sil2100> mvo: I have some of my changes that we'd need released to unblock image builds
<mvo> sil2100: yeah, thats fine
<mvo> sil2100: ogra_ also has some pending changes
<sil2100> Thanks!
<ogra_> mvo, oh, didnt you say you pushed them to trunk ?
<sil2100> They're pushed to trunk but not released yet
<sil2100> I'm releasing trunk right now if that's ok
<ogra_> bah, i just upgraded my phone to tonights rc-proposed image ... no apps in the apps scope ... no matter how often i refresh
<ogra_> ok, seems ten times is the charm ...
<yofel> doko: did you intentionally drop the multiarch changes from libical?
<doko> yofel, no, saw too late that they were only applied in experimental
<doko> but I didn't check if we can sync the experimental package
<doko> so maybe I better restore these
<yofel> would be nice, it's causing build failures in some kde autopktests as cmake hardcodes the lib path in some places
<doko> ahh, I remember
<doko> breakfast first
<yofel> doko: and thanks for merging digikam
<alexbligh1> Is this the sort of thing you'd take a 14.04 SRU for (assuming my one character patch to fix it is OK): https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nbd/+bug/1578185
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1578185 in nbd (Ubuntu) "nbd-client 3.7 connects read-only to newer nbd servers" [Undecided,New]
<smoser> alexbligh1, if if it doesn't break working with older nbd servers' it would surely seem appropriate for sru from what that bug says.
<alexbligh1> smoser, nope, it doesn't break anything. OK, I will persuade Wouter (Debian maintainer and nbd maintainer) my one line patch is a good plan :-)
<alexbligh1> smoser, thx
<shadeslayer> chrisccoulson: hi, I was wondering if you had a moment to talk about firefox? I seem to be hitting a race condition when the configure step is a bit too slow
<shadeslayer> for eg. on armhf
<rbasak> alexbligh1: thank you for looking after this. Let me know if you need any help with sponsorship etc.
<shadeslayer> chrisccoulson: I was wondering if you had seen something similar?
<alexbligh1> rbasak, thx - if you could tell me how to mark it as 14.04 only that would be great.
<rbasak> alexbligh1: is it Fix Released in Yakkety then? I can add the Trusty task for you. AIUI, that was ACL-restricted to uploaders and triagers only because people kept misunderstanding the purpose or something.
<rbasak> alexbligh1: done
<alexbligh1> rbasak, yes it was fixed in wily when 3.10 was imported. Thanks.
<roadmr> hey folks! so on xenial I get an "updates available" bubble but it's not actionable. Clicking on it does nothing, nor does the dancing update manager appar in the unity dash. I had to hunt it down manually. Is this a bug?
<sergiusens> cjwatson pitti hello again, is the fact that I need to do this https://github.com/ubuntu-core/snapcraft/pull/499/files for yakkety a bug in snapcraft that went unnoticed (worked all through xenial) or the new apt/python-apt in yakkety?
<cjwatson> sergiusens: Don't know, I'm afraid
<ginggs> pitti: hi, can something be done about compute's ppc64el test failure blocking nvidia-cuda-toolkit please? From what I can see, nvidia-cuda-toolkit provides an alternate build-depends which isn't even being tested. The failures have been since the switch to boost1.60.
<coreycb> bdmurray, arges: Hi, any chacne we could get a review for the liberty point release in bug 1569502 ?
<ubottu> bug 1569502 in nova (Ubuntu Wily) "[SRU] liberty point releases" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1569502
<pitti> ginggs: I added a compute/ppc64el ignore hint
<ginggs> pitti: danke!
<rbasak> "dpkg: dependency problems prevent processing triggers for ufw"
<rbasak> Is this an apt bug? I don't see an obvious packaging deficiency or opportunity for there to be a dependency loop.
<rbasak> http://paste.ubuntu.com/16218132/ is my reproduction of bug 1571174
<ubottu> bug 1571174 in squid3 (Ubuntu) "package squid3 failed to install/upgrade: dependency problems - leaving triggers unprocessed" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1571174
<rbasak> It seems to me that apt should have chosen to configure python3 first.
<arges> coreycb: i got it
<pitti> rcj: cat /sys/class/tty/console/active
<rcj> pitti, thanks
<doko> yofel, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ffmpegthumbs/+bug/1578269 (only recommended by digikam)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1578269 in ffmpegthumbs (Ubuntu) "demote ffmpegthumbs to proposed, fails to build with new ffmpeg" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<cjwatson> doko: why do you disable entire test suites rather than just the failing test?  (survex, which I'd just started to look at upon noticing that you'd sledgehammered it)
<doko> cjwatson, sure, I could have done this as well. however I didn't see any failure on the local build
<tjaalton> doko: arm64 fails to build llvm-3.8 on trusty, log says "internal compiler error". this probably is a blocker for lts-xenial. should I file a bug against gcc-4.8?
<doko> tjaalton, I'm not involved with the lts uploads of clang. does this persist when you give it back?
<tjaalton> doko: built it on a ppa, haven't tried rebuilding
<tjaalton> will do that now
<doko> cjwatson, alsa-plugins-extra is also merged
<cjwatson> doko: I don't see any failure right now on the local build either (I'm investigating), but the point of a test suite is to make problems on future builds less likely
<doko> cjwatson, right, that's why I filed a bug report which I intend to re-open after the current transitions
<cjwatson> IME those bug reports get lost
<doko> ok, then I'll re-upload after the transition with the fix reverted
<cjwatson> well like I say I was working on them anyway ...
<doko> I only worked on these while you were bringing you kids to bed last night, and just re-started again. but it's not just ffmpeg which is blocking
<cjwatson> valgrind shows what the survex problem probably is
<cjwatson> and the freshplayerplugin problem is easily reproducible locally in a UTF-8 locale
<hallyn> pitti: is there a 'dh_systemd_disable' sort of thing?
<pitti> hallyn: there isn't, what should that do?
<pitti> units are disabled by default, after all
<hallyn> pitti: problem is, we currently have libvirt-bin.service, which is Alias=libvirtd.  We're switching to debian packaging, which has libvirtd.service instead
<hallyn> Which I want to Alias=libvirt-bin for ahwile probably
<hallyn> but how should i do the renaming?
<hallyn> (sorry, biam)
<pitti> hallyn: ah, so you need to rename the enablement symlinks in the prerm?
<pitti> err, preinst
<pitti> hallyn: I think this would be a conditionalized mv in the preinst
<cjwatson> doko: When you said "Revert last change" in freshplayerplugin (presumably the build-dependency on libjack-dev), you don't seem to have actually done so.  Should I do so since I plan to upload it anyway?
<hallyn> pitti: so i should do it manually using 'mv'?
<pitti> hallyn: I think that's better than just rm'ing it and re-creating the new ones, if you want to maintain the fact that an admin manually disabled it
<pitti> i. e. it should still be disabled after the upgrade
<hallyn> pitti: yeah right now i was just trying to stop it (as in https://git.launchpad.net/~libvirt-maintainers/ubuntu/+source/libvirt/tree/debian/libvirt-daemon-system.preinst?h=2016-05-02/yakkety) and i manually tried 'disabling' it, but that didn't suffice
<hallyn> i'll try moving the files - then do i do a systemctl reload?  (from inside prerm?)
<cjwatson> doko: Seems to make no difference to the configuration, so I'll go ahead and do that
<hallyn> (of course, i *could* just punt on this and keep this as delta from debian, but i'd really like to minimize that)
<cjwatson> doko: freshplayerplugin and survex both fixed
<doko> ta \o/
<tjaalton> doko: rebuild fails too
<cjwatson> and uploading an ffmpeg patch that's supposed to fix the autopkgtest failure
<hallyn> pitti: gonna try http://paste.ubuntu.com/16221711/
<pitti> hallyn: looks good at first sight, and also gets rid of the bare systemctl invocation (which breaks under upstart and with policy-rc.d in e. g. chroots)
<pitti> hallyn: FTR, if you ever have that case, please use deb-systemd-invoke, this checks policy-rc.d
<pitti> or just invoke-rc.d
<hallyn> pitti: ok, thx
<hallyn> actually, lemme think.  we have cloud archives, so in fact what i have in that paste is not sufficent,
<hallyn> as it'll break if someone in 14.04 upgrades to it
<hallyn> i don't suppose we can hae any sort of sanity guarantees about lts-to-lts upgrades even with cloud archives?
<hallyn> jamespage: ^ is there going to be a cloud archive providing yakkety's libvirt to pre-15.10 users?
<hallyn> (i..e non-systemd-based)
<hallyn> zul: ^
<zul> hallyn: dunno yet :)
<hallyn> well maybe i'll just leave it broken until we know
<hallyn> bc 'fixing' it also means papering over other potential bugs
<hallyn> pitti: so instead of checking for that symlink by hand should i be doing 'deb-systemd-invoke systemctl is_enabled libvirt-bin' ?
<hallyn> nah
<pitti> hallyn: deb-systemd-invoke is just for start/stop; enable/disable is fine, not a thing that policy-rc.d covers
<pitti> hallyn: but it's by and large the same as checking for the symlink directly, so mostly a matter of preference I'd say
<hallyn> ok - thanks
<pitti> hallyn: actually
<pitti> hallyn: deb-systemd-helper has is-enabled, enable, disable etc., and that might be better as /var/lib/systemd/deb-systemd-helper-enabled/ also needs to be updated
<pitti> that's the crazy Debian thing to sync enablement over upgrades, across init systems etc.
<pitti> this might fire back if we don't update this too
<hallyn> ugh
<pitti> hallyn: sorry, I think that might be the first time this kind of upgrade issue happens
<hallyn> but what about renames?
<hallyn> that is deb-systemd-helper enable/disable isn't quite enough...  oh, but
<doko> wgrant, cjwatson, pitti: https://launchpadlibrarian.net/257883350/buildlog_ubuntu-yakkety-i386.slurm-llnl_15.08.10-1build1_BUILDING.txt.gz (packages modifying -dbgsym packages).  is there a plan when we'll switch to the new dbgsym packages?
<hallyn> i can just disable, move the classical links by hand, then enable?
<hallyn> pitti: put another way: what the heck is under /var/lib/systemd/deb-systemd-helper-enabled/
<pitti> hallyn: so I think "if deb-system-helper is-enabled <old name> then disable the old name, otherwise disable the new name
<pitti> hallyn: so, I'm fairly sure that just handling the links as you do it now should work
<pitti> as the /var/lib/helper stuff never trumps admin changes
<pitti> so, forget what I said
<hallyn> ok
<pitti> hallyn: the stuff in /var/lib basically tracks the distro defaults
<hallyn> otherwise i was thinking i'd need to deb-systemd-helper purge; move the files, deb-systemd-helper enable
<hallyn> ok - so those files should get dropped naturally?
<hallyn> i'll make a note to check them in a test - thanks pt
<hallyn> uh.  thanks pitti
<pitti> this would be really ugly indeed
<pitti> hallyn: for testing, I think check that it upgrades correctly with an enabled and disabled service, and that installing it again works
<pitti> and ignore the /var stuff
<hallyn> ok thx
<hallyn> man sometimes ppas just take forever to publish after building...
<doko> ubuntu-keyboard-swedish/amd64 unsatisfiable Depends: hunspell-sv-se
<doko> ubuntu-keyboard-swedish/armhf unsatisfiable Depends: hunspell-sv-se
<doko> ubuntu-keyboard-swedish/i386 unsatisfiable Depends: hunspell-sv-se
<doko> sil2100, ^^^
<hallyn> pitti: argh.  well i can't do that in pre-inst, apparently /lib/systemd/system/libvirt-bin.service has been removed by this point
<pitti> hallyn: uh? that sounds wrong; preinst runs before unpack
<hallyn> maybe i do it in the libvirt-bin (which is otherwise just a metapackage) preinst/
<pitti> no, you can't rely on the unpack order then
<hallyn> pitti: yeah but the libvirtd.service is in libvirt-daemon-system package;  libvirt-bin.servce is in libvirt-bin package
<hallyn> so what to do?
<pitti> oh
<pitti> hallyn: does one depend on the other?
<hallyn> yeah libvirt-bin depends on libvirt-daemon-system
<hallyn> so, maybe it would be easier to keep libvirt-bin.service for now, and do that switch after we've gotten rid of the libvirt-bin package altogether?
<hallyn> so the move is at least happening within one pkg?
<pitti> hallyn: so you need to do it in the package which originally shipped the old name
<hallyn> ok,
<pitti> if that was libvirt-bin, its preinst needs to do that, yes
<pitti> even if it's empty afterwards
<hallyn> i can do that.  bu ti'm still worried about the file being gone,
<pitti> but you need that empty package for upgrades anyway
<hallyn> because at postinst time for libvirt-daemon-ssytem it still says that libvirt-bin.service exists
<hallyn> so is that getting cached under /var/lib somewhere during package remove/unpack?
<hallyn> all right so lemme try with that in libvirt-bin.preinst.  thx
<pitti> hallyn: dependencies get configured before postinst runs; deb contents does not get cached, now
<pitti> (sorry, distracted, sprint)
<hallyn> pitti: hold on.  there is existing code there from debian's transition.  i was misreading that and thinking it was my code from an earlier upstart->systemd xition
<hallyn> so actually mayb ei just need to tweak the version numbers there and it'll just work
<hallyn> pitti: in particular, http://paste.ubuntu.com/16223586/
<hallyn> does that look like it would work?
 * hallyn tries
<pitti> hallyn: that actually looks fairly good, yes
<hallyn> cool let's see if it works
<pitti> hallyn: it doesn't maintain admin changes, though
<pitti> hallyn: i. e. if the admin manually disabled the service, it will restart after the upgrade
<hallyn> hm
<hallyn> and i can only check that from libvirt-bin.preinst?
<hallyn> no, not if i use the deb-systemd helpers
<hallyn> so to that hunk i could add a tmpfile created if the service is enabled, and only enable it by hand...
<hallyn> pitti: by disabled you mean stopped or actually disabled so it won't start again?
<pitti> hallyn: disabled (stopped is fine)
<hallyn> sigh
<hallyn> all right i'll test it both ways.  thx
<hallyn> pitti: meh, that doesn't work. I still get http://paste.ubuntu.com/16224784/
<hallyn> so i'll do it my way in libvirt-bin.preinst
<hallyn> my way -> your way?  but not debian's way :)
<doko> roaksoax, please could you have a look at https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/virtualbox/5.0.20-dfsg-1/+build/9669239 ? currently blocking some transitions
<roaksoax> doko: ???? I've never touched virtualbox i dont think ...
<doko> ohh, looked at the wrong package
<roaksoax> :)
<cjwatson> doko: There is no current plan, nor am I even sure it's agreed that we will switch.
<cjwatson> The way that ended up in Debian is significantly less convenient to deal with for no obvious advantage, although the delta is awkward.
<doko> I should propose for debian policy not to modify dbgsym packages ...
<pitti> cjwatson: we could make the delta a bit smaller by patching debhelper to name them .ddeb instead of .deb; in theory this should then not need LP changes, or am I missing something?
<hallyn> pitti: nope, that (manual mv'ing in libvirt-bin.preinst) didn't work.  i'll use the deb-systemd-helper to disable and leave tmpfiles for postinst to know whether to reenable
<hallyn> ugh
<cjwatson> pitti: Not sure.  There's all the hairy stuff that arranges to control whether ddebs are built on an archive-by-archive basis
<cjwatson> Build-Debug-Symbols etc.
<pitti> cjwatson: oh, the parsing of /CurrentlyBuilding etc.
<hallyn> oh great, this is helpful for testing:
<hallyn> deb-systemd-helper is-enabled libvirt-bin.service
<hallyn> /usr/bin/deb-systemd-helper was not called from dpkg. Exiting.
 * hallyn needs more info on deb-systemd-helper mask/unmask
<doko> AlbertA: please could you have a look at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mir/+bug/1578381
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1578381 in mir (Ubuntu) "mir tests fail in yakkety on amd64 and i386" [Critical,Confirmed]
<AlbertA> doko: 0.21? shouldn't it be 0.22?
<doko> AlbertA, there is no 0.22 in https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mir
<AlbertA> camako: bregma: ^
<AlbertA> doko: I thought the ci-train was supposed to release to the transitional overlay thingy
<doko> AlbertA, it's my understanding that this is not yet in effect for yakkety
<AlbertA> doko: in any case, the test failures look intermittent:
<AlbertA> [ FAILED ] ClientLatency.throttled_input_rate_yields_lower_latency
<AlbertA> I think that test will potentially fail if there's too much load on the build machines
<doko> AlbertA, I can give them back and see what happens. can you save a copy of the build log locally?
<AlbertA> if you re-run the builds it will most likely be ok
<doko> AlbertA, give back succeeded. closing the issue. ta
<AlbertA> doku: ack
<camako> AlbertA, mir 0.22 is not in xenial either
<camako> weird
<camako> or meybe expected due to the overlay
<roaksoax> 8
<pitti> infinity: FYI, just committed bug 1577966, so happy proxying (if you run autopkgtest from git, like all the kool kids do :) )
<ubottu> bug 1577966 in autopkgtest (Ubuntu) "automatically setup proxies other than apt-cacher-ng" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1577966
#ubuntu-devel 2016-05-05
<Logan> cjwatson: regarding https://launchpadlibrarian.net/257940143/buildlog_ubuntu-yakkety-amd64.eclipse-titan_5.4.1-1_BUILDING.txt.gz - it looks like the requirement of hardening-wrapper is due to the Ubuntu vendor module for dpkg that you wrote
<Logan> cjwatson: now that hardening flags are automatically exported by dpkg as of 1.16.1, it would probably be safe to remove the hardening-wrapper logic from https://anonscm.debian.org/cgit/dpkg/dpkg.git/tree/scripts/Dpkg/Vendor/Ubuntu.pm no? Lintian complains about hardening-wrapper being obsolete when I add a build dependency on it
<mwhudson> uh why is https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/golang-pretty in main?
<mwhudson> both in a "can someone tell me" way and "can someone tell me how to find out" way
<mwhudson> oh i think it's on a chain of build depends that ends up at juju-core or something
<zyga> brendand: hey :)
<brendand> zyga, hey
<zyga> brendand: how are you doing? settling in in the new role?
<brendand> zyga, getting to know maas
<brendand> yeah
<zyga> cool, it's great to have you back :)
<Logan> mwhudson: if you do an advanced search on bugs for the package and allow "Fix Released," you'll see Bug 1267393
<ubottu> bug 1267393 in juju-mongodb (Ubuntu) "[MIR] juju-core, juju-mongodb, gccgo, golang" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1267393
<Logan> (there should always be an MIR bug associated with a package that was moved to main)
<mwhudson> ah yes
<mwhudson> i guess an advanced search for "MIR" would be even more direct
<Logan> true :)
<mwhudson> oh well, i hope i didn't just break juju by syncing that package from debian :-)
<mwhudson> (in fact it seems juju already ftbfs thanks to other things i did in debian...)
<Logan> looks like it has a depwait anyway
<Logan> oh, golang-text needs to make it through the NEW queue first before it'll build
<Logan> in any case, ideally there's an autopkgtest for juju that would fail if these new Go packages caused a regression
<cjwatson> Logan: while hardening-wrapper is obsolete, I'm reluctant to change that behaviour until it's actually gone.  In this case this is just a clear bug in eclipse-titan; it's using DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS but with the syntax and semantics documented for DEB_BUILD_MAINT_OPTIONS (see dpkg-buildflags(1))
<cjwatson> and DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS should not be set by packages anyway
<cjwatson> Logan: I'll fix this case and forward to Debian
<Logan> cjwatson: if DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS isn't supposed to be set by packages, and it doesn't have "hardening" by default, I don't see the point of maintaining that behavior (because when will it ever be set to that?)
<Logan> thanks for the clarification, though! and I appreciate you fixing/forwarding the bug
<Logan> actually I guess a user could just set it as an environment variable - is that the edge case you're supporting?
<cjwatson> Logan: The behaviour was specifically to help users setting that
<Logan> gotcha :)
<Logan> hmm, maybe dpkg-buildflags(1) should be more explicit about the difference between DEB_BUILD_MAINT_OPTIONS and DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS
<Logan> it just lists both of them as serving the same purpose but happens to use the MAINT one in the examples
<cjwatson> so I'm not totally disagreeing that we should eventually drop this behaviour from Dpkg::Vendor::Ubuntu
<Logan> I guess it *should* be self-explanatory that the MAINT one is for package maintainers
<cjwatson> I'm just not quite sure about the timing, and it's not the right way to fix this particular bug
<Logan> oh never mind about the documentation part, it's clarified later on in the manpage
<Logan> but yeah, agreed - the best way to fix this for now is to make sure the proper variable is being set in this package
<Logan> the logic in the dpkg module should probably only be removed once hardening-wrapper is killed off
<cjwatson> yeah
<Logan> thanks again!
<Logan> cjwatson: btw, while I have you, nobody has merged my fix for the ubuntu-policy FTBFS yet (I wanted to make sure it was reflected in the repo instead of just uploading to universe): https://code.launchpad.net/~logan/debian-policy/fix-ftbfs/+merge/289853
<Logan> and you seem like a likely candidate to review, even though you haven't touched it since 2009: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/debian-policy/ubuntu/changes
<cjwatson> yikes, I really must merge that thing properly
<Logan> (although we should probably just get rid of this package because it's so obsolete)
<Logan> (or that)
<cjwatson> well it does actually have differences that are still applicable
<cjwatson> but I'll merge your thing for now, thanks
<Logan> sure thing
<cjwatson> oh nice, ffmpeg sorted out, thanks doko
<cjwatson> (and others I'm sure)
<rbasak> apt bug? Bug 1571174.
<ubottu> bug 1571174 in squid3 (Ubuntu) "package squid3 failed to install/upgrade: dependency problems - leaving triggers unprocessed" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1571174
<pitti> Good morning
<LocutusOfBorg> doko, I tried a lot with something like DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS=harderning=-pie but I don't see any -no-pie flag injected
<LocutusOfBorg> how can I have that flag injected automatically?
<LocutusOfBorg> "export DEB_BUILD_MAINT_OPTIONS=hardening=-pie,-pic,-format,-bindnow" <-- virtualbox now
<rbasak> Laney: thank you for spying on us :)
<rbasak> (please continue)
<rbasak> I'm struggling to follow how everything fits together.
<rbasak> Where are manually maintained packagesets kept?
<Laney> hi rbasak
<Laney> they are 'kept' in Launchpad
<rbasak> That makes sense. So they are manipulated only through launchpadlib, or is there a UI?
<Laney> there's a list here http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/packagesets/yakkety/
<Laney> typically you use the edit-acl script in lp:ubuntu-archive-tools to manipulate them
<rbasak> Ah
<rbasak> Somebody told me that already, but I've been looking in ~developer-membership-board only. Thanks :)
<Laney> nod
 * Laney is here for advice if needed
<rbasak> Appreciated :)
<rbasak> DOes Launchpad keep a revision history of ACL changes?
<Laney> Don't think so
<rbasak> (that would make touching this a little less scary)
<rbasak> OK
<Laney> it's probably edit-acl -P ubuntu-mate -p flexiondotorg -S yakkety remove
<Laney> and then -p ubuntu-mate-uploaders ... add
<Laney> after you make the team
<Laney> (It might be that this a TB action - some things are, but I forget exactly what)
<rbasak> I'd like to follow what's going on, but I think infinity made the initial change so it might be better for him to look at this particular change.
<rbasak> Just to avoid any confusion.
<Laney> 'k
<flexiondotorg> Laney, rbasak I think infinity add me as an uploader to the MATE packages in xenial and yakkety last week.
<rbasak> flexiondotorg: Laney suggests doing it differently: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/devel-permissions/2016-May/000922.html
<rbasak> flexiondotorg: it shouldn't make any difference to your actual access I believe.
<rbasak> Querying myself (or presumably any core dev) is interesting as it basically lists everything.
<xnox> pitti, cyphermox - http://packages.ubuntu.com/search?suite=yakkety&section=all&arch=any&keywords=ntp&searchon=contents
<xnox> that's where original dhcp sets ntp server settings i am guessing
<xnox> via /etc/dhcp/dhclient-exit-hooks.d/ntp
<xnox> i am shocked that ntp cannot be set in /etc/networking/interfaces =(
<pitti> bdmurray, arges: do you have some time to review my systemd SRU? we're getting more SRU requests, so would be nice to unblock this
<arges> pitti: i'll have time this afternoon if bdmurray doesn't get to it first
<bdmurray> pitti: I'll look shortly
<seb128> mdeslaur, hey, bug #1578576 seems a regression from the recent samba-regression-fix security update :-/
<ubottu> bug 1578576 in samba (Ubuntu) "ntlm_auth --helper-protocol=squid-2.5-ntlmssp report segfault" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1578576
<mdeslaur> yeah, that's nice
<seb128> mdeslaur, sorry :-( (just pointing it because I review recent reports and crossed it)
<mdeslaur> samba regression whack-a-mole
<mdeslaur> seb128: thanks
<seb128> mdeslaur, yw!
<hallyn> pitti: hey, if/when you have a minute, http://paste.ubuntu.com/16241500/
<hallyn> pitti: ^ at line 195 is my check which does do a deb-system-helper disable libvirtd.service,
<hallyn> but later on is debhelper-added code which appears to reenable it
<hallyn> (starting line 264)
<hallyn> do i need to do another step to tell it "no really, i want it disabled"?  is that what 'mask' would do?
<hallyn> maybe i should just re-mask it
<hallyn> or i could manually move the libvirt-bin.masked dir to libvirtd.masked i suppose
<hallyn> pitti: ok but surely http://paste.ubuntu.com/16242185/ ought to work.
<hallyn> maybe i need an update-state in there?
<hallyn> nope, doesn't help.  i'm at a loss.
<hallyn> some food may help.
<hallyn> maybe i just need to find the right time to move /var/lib/systemd/deb-systemd-helper-enabled/libvirt-bin.service.dsh-also to /var/lib/systemd/deb-systemd-helper-enabled/libvirtd.service.dsh-also
<hallyn> really there should be a dh_systemd command for that
<chiluk> cyphermox: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/grub2/+bug/1569567
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1569567 in grub2 (Ubuntu) "Running update-grub does not update /boot/grub/grub.cfg with GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT from /etc/default/grub" [Undecided,Invalid]
<cyphermox> yay
<cyphermox> cjwatson: what are your thoughts on this? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/grub2/+bug/1569567/comments/6
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1569567 in grub2 (Ubuntu) "Running update-grub does not update /boot/grub/grub.cfg with GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT from /etc/default/grub" [Undecided,New]
<JordiGH> sabdfl logged in 4 weeks ago last time. Was he around here?
<cyphermox> JordiGH: you're probably better off sending an email.
<JordiGH> I don't want to contact him. Honestly just want to know if he comes around.
<dobey> yes, he is on irc plenty
<dobey> he travels a lot more than most of us though
<JordiGH> I see. Interesting.
<hallyn> mbiebl_: hey - are you around by chance?
<hallyn> mbiebl_: end of https://git.launchpad.net/~libvirt-maintainers/ubuntu/+source/libvirt/tree/debian/libvirt-daemon-system.postinst?h=2016-05-02/yakkety
<hallyn> i've added 'echo disabling >> /tmp/debug' to the postinst when it should disable it.  It is calling the deb-systemd-helper disable libvirtd.service
<hallyn> but then the service is running anyway.
<hallyn> is there anything else i should do?  i don't understand the 'update-state' or 'mask' or 'unmask' options...  maybe onf of those, except i've tried them blindly with no apparent success
<cjwatson> cyphermox: haven't read the whole bug; I agree that 2) and 3) are likely good changes, at least; not quite sure why /etc/default/grub needs to be "[moved] to be early in /etc/default/grub.d" as I thought it was already always sourced first
<cyphermox> cjwatson: either or
<cyphermox> cjwatson: if we don't carry the values, then moving /etc/default/grub to grub.d will make it more obvious that there may be something to override what you've set
<cyphermox> I may have written that all wrong
<cjwatson> cyphermox: I'm very wary about moving configuration files around; not only is it inherently fiddly but there's a long tail of documentation and random web pages and such.  I think that should be avoided unless absolutely necessary
<cyphermox> I agree
<cyphermox> I would just fix curtin/maas/whatever to keep the values already sourced unless it's really not possible
<cyphermox> hrm, for some reason, I don't have the key repeat settings doing the right thing here.
<cjwatson> so yeah, if grub.d files are unconditionally clobbering settings when they could reasonably append, I consider that a clear bug in those packages
<hallyn> pitti: mbiebl_: so https://git.launchpad.net/~libvirt-maintainers/ubuntu/+source/libvirt/tree/debian/libvirt-daemon-system.postinst?h=2016-05-02/yakkety doesn't quite work but at least doesn't fail so i'll look at other failures until one of you can loan me a clue :)  thx
<arges> bdmurray: i take it you reviewed systemd already?
<pitti> arges: yes, he did
<arges> ah good
<doko> Logan, please fokllow-up on the library transitions you just started
<Logan> sure, I was waiting for them to clear the NEW queue :)
<Logan> doko: does the transition tracker need to be poked to update from the repo?
<doko> Logan, transition tracker is all manual :-/
<Logan> I know
<Logan> I added new ben files in the repo 20 minutes ago, but the transitions haven't shown up on the site
<Logan> (and I'm pretty confident I formatted them correctly)
<clivejo> hi folks, what vervion of libc is yakkety using?
<sarnold> looks like 2.23-0ubuntu3  https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/glibc
<clivejo> libc6 ?
<sarnold> yeah
<Logan> it's had that SOVERSION for a long time
<sarnold> libc5 is .. shrouded in mists. I for one can only vaguely recall those times.. dark times they were.
<sarnold> of course legends tell of libc4, grim and meagre.
<clivejo> what does error: âsqrtâ is not a member of âstdâ mean?
<Logan> doko: sorry to bug you again, but how exactly should dependency levels factor into which packages I transition first?
<Logan> as far as I can tell, they all directly depend on the older version...
<doko> first do level 1, wait until these are published, and then go on with the next level
<Logan> what is the reasoning behind it, though? what do dependency levels mean?
<Logan> clivejo: it means that you haven't included the necessary header for std::sqrt
<Logan> (which appears to be <cmath>)
<sarnold> clivejo: feels like you forgot the #include <cmath> header: http://en.cppreference.com/w/cpp/numeric/math/sqrt
<sarnold> clivejo: .. but it might be something more subtle/annoying like a misused "use" statement or something.
<Logan> I think glibc 2.23 removed a lot of implicit includes
<clivejo> its KDE software and is building on other distro's, just cant get it to build on yakkety
<Logan> link? I can take a look
<clivejo> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/258045993/buildlog_ubuntu-yakkety-i386.plasma-desktop_4%3A5.6.3-0ubuntu1~ubuntu16.10~ppa3_BUILDING.txt.gz
<clivejo> sure
<clivejo> package is in https://launchpad.net/~kubuntu-ppa/+archive/ubuntu/staging-plasma
<Logan> looking
<Logan> doko: pinging for above question (right after you replied to me)
<Logan> clivejo: boom https://quickgit.kde.org/?p=plasma-desktop.git&a=commit&h=3a3bbc39d5cba8d77c89f6652c5b9c24c9980497
<Logan> cherrypick that commit, and you should be golden
<clivejo> I could kiss you Logan!!  Thanks so much!
<Logan> hahaha no problem!
<doko> Logan, packages on higher levels may depend on packages in lower levels
<sarnold> Logan: boom :) nice find
<Logan> doko: ahh, gotcha
<Logan> sarnold: thanks :)
<Logan> now you all are required to endorse my imminent core dev application ;P
<sarnold> \o/
<Unit193> Logan: G'luck!
<clivejo> +1 from me :)
<Logan> thanks :) trying to time it properly
<Logan> I've had a few people tell me I should apply
<Logan> ew, why does ubuntu-touch-meta depend on a shared library?
<Logan> I shouldn't have to mess with germinate for a library transition
<Logan> gah sil2100 left just as I said that
<Logan> could a core dev please merge this so that I can push an update to ubuntu-touch-meta? https://code.launchpad.net/~logan/ubuntu-seeds/ubuntu-touch-tinyxml2/+merge/293955
#ubuntu-devel 2016-05-06
<rlaager> Is there a convention for referencing Launchpad bugs in debian/changelog that does not close the Launchpad bug on upload? (Or am I wrong in my assumption that LP: #... closes the bug?)
<nacc> rlaager: drop the ':'
<rlaager> nacc: Thanks!
<Logan> er, the colon should be fine
<Logan> I use that every time, and it works fine
<Logan> https://anonscm.debian.org/cgit/dpkg/dpkg.git/tree/scripts/Dpkg/Vendor/Ubuntu.pm#n173
<Logan> here's the regular expression ;)
<rlaager> Logan: With "LP: #...", does it close the bug report (i.e. mark it "Fix released") on upload?
<Logan> it marks it as Fix Released as soon as it hits the release pocket, I believe
<nacc> Logan: right, with a colon, i believe the watcher changes the bug state, rlaager asked what would prevent htat
<rlaager> Note that I want to reference a bug report, but this is not an entire fix, so I do NOT want it to close.
<Logan> ohhh
<rlaager> The downside here is that the changelog won't get automatically copied into the bug either, but oh well. In my in-house thing at work, I support "Closes #..." vs "Refs #...", which I think is a convention I copied from Pidgin development.
<rlaager> Not that I can upload to Ubuntu anyway, but I'm trying to produce debdiffs that are 100% good-to-go.
<sarnold> you could always go set it back to IN PROGRESS or something afterwards
<Logan> oh
<sarnold> or open a new bug for this small problem?
<Logan> I misread
<sarnold> "small"
<Logan> yes, removing the colon should work based on that regular expression
<Logan> sorry to cause confusion
<rlaager> sarnold: So, can packages move from universe to main post release, or is ZFS stuck in universe for the lifetime of Xenial?
<sarnold> rlaager: *sigh* I hadn't noticed it didn't make it to main.
<sarnold> rlaager: there's precedent for making promotions to main retroactive, anyway: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ppc64-diag/+bug/1417608
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1417608 in servicelog (Ubuntu) "[MIR] ppc64-diag needed in minimal for hotplug capabilities" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<rlaager> sarnold: See my previous rant/whinge about the lack of feedback. Basically, do I hassle people (and annoy them if they're going to get to it) or not and it doesn't get done (if they weren't working on it).
<sarnold> rlaager: yes :(
<sarnold> I'd rather be bothered; most releases there's no way we can get to all the MIR requests, so it's nice to know which ones are _needed_ vs which ones aren't.
<rlaager> By the way, what's the policy on assigning bugs? Specifically, is it okay for me to assign a bug to myself, even if I'm not an Ubuntu developer?
<sarnold> yeah that should be fine
<sarnold> maybe make a comment in the bug if you're actively working on it -- people assign bugs to themslves all the time without meaning to.
<Unit193> It's a bit annoying, aye. >_>
<rlaager> Okay. I've been taking the "be bold" (or "better to beg forgiveness than ask permission") approach and figured someone would slap me down if I was creating a problem.
<sarnold> that works out well for everyone :) bugs get fixed
<Mirv> pitti: there would be another hanged s390x test, marble, at http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/update_excuses.html#qtbase-opensource-src
<Mirv> that's the only thing blocking
<Mirv> or maybe Laney ^ ?
<seb128> Mirv, pitti is in Austin so probably still sleeping
<Mirv> seb128: ok. I'm just trying to find someone who has access to the autopackagetest infra to restart that one test.
<seb128> yeah, no idea who that is
<seb128> but better to ask like than to ping one specific person that might not be around
<Mirv> in the trickier cases it has been only one specific person who knows what to do. there's a bug filed about this "stuck in running state" which happens every now and then.
<seb128> that sounds like an issue
<Laney> Mirv: I skipped it now, looks like it got blacklisted
<Mirv> Laney: ok, let's see if it gets unblocked now
<Mirv> Laney: http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/update_excuses.html#qtbase-opensource-src seems unchanged, still "Test in progress"
<Mirv> (without being in progress or running page during the last hour)
<Laney> Dunno
<Laney> Need to wait then
<Mirv> ...for pitti
<Mirv> likely another case of bug #1571353 and some magic forcing is needed while the bug is still open
<ubottu> bug 1571353 in Auto Package Testing "test results get lost and stay "in progress" forever when multiple tests finish at the exact same time" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1571353
 * Laney tried one more thing
<Mirv> ok, page updated, no change, and no new test runs completed or anything running currently
<pitti> seb128, Laney: FYI: retry-autopkgtest-regressions --state RUNNING
<pitti> this generates all commands
<pitti> then pick out the ones you want/need
<pitti> re-running marble now
<seb128> pitti, hey! happy friday
<seb128> pitti, does that work with "hanging" instances?
<pitti> and that bug is high on my list, for next week
<pitti> seb128: well, the test request got lost
<seb128> ah ok
<seb128> so retry would have worked
<pitti> which normally "should not happen"â¢, but can with bug 1571353
<ubottu> bug 1571353 in Auto Package Testing "test results get lost and stay "in progress" forever when multiple tests finish at the exact same time" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1571353
<pitti> seb128: right, except that you don't have a convenient button on excuses, you need to use run-autopkgtest
<pitti> seb128: other than heating up the universe it's completely safe to re-run tests
<pitti> if there are more than one results for a test, britney will just pick one (preferring PASSes)
<pitti> seb128: et joyeux vendredi Ã  toi aussi ! comment vas-tu ?
<seb128> pitti, noted for next time
<seb128> pitti, Ã§a va bien, il fait beau et chaud ici ! tu rentres quand ?
<pitti> seb128: well, hopefully there won't be many next times any more :)
<pitti> this is the only known way how to lose test requests right now, and we know how to fix it
<pitti> seb128: cet Ã pres-midi, mon vol va Ã  17h15
<seb128> pitti, tu pourras profiter de ton dimanche alors :-)
<seb128> pitti, k, fingers crossed that once that one is fixed things are reliable then!
<pitti> seb128: en effet ! et le temps est trÃ¨s bien, donc on va Ãªtre dehors tout le dimanche :)
<seb128> sounds great! :-)
<seb128> hum
<seb128> did launchpad stopped deleting SRUs from -proposed when they move to -updates?
<seb128> or are they staying there until the update is rolled out at 100% and they cleaned out?
<cjwatson> LP never did that automatically
<seb128> I never noticed packages having "updates, proposed" on their ubuntu package before
<seb128> e.g https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-software
<cjwatson> they're listed on
<cjwatson> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/pending-sru.html
<seb128> oh ok
 * cjwatson processes the current batch
<cjwatson> it's just manual to avoid accidents
<seb128> I guess it's usally done frequently enough that I never noticed
<cjwatson> and because cleanup is in no way urgent
<seb128> cjwatson, thanks!
<cjwatson> np
<seb128> (or maybe usually whoever does the pocket copy does the cleanup as well while they are at it?)
<cjwatson> more usual to wait for it to show up in the report IME
<Mirv> seb128: can you try out pitti's instruction on the marble? it'd look like no-one ran the command yet (no new executed autopkgtest runs, nothing running, state still stuck)
<seb128> Mirv, pitti said he was doing it
<seb128> pitti, did you do? just checking if there was an issue before doing it as well
<seb128> cjwatson, k, thanks for the details!
<pitti> seb128: I did run the command, yes
<seb128> Mirv, ^
<pitti> sorry, can't check this now, in meeting
<Mirv> ok thanks pitti, I'm just not finding any new log at http://is.gd/aX745A listing nor anything on the running page
<pitti> triggering it again
<Mirv> still nothing on http://autopkgtest.ubuntu.com/running.shtml - the previous runs have lasted for roughly 40 mins so it should be showing there. I guess needs time for debugging at a better time.
<pitti> right
<pitti> oh!
<pitti> Mirv, seb128: sorry, completely forgot: the workers blacklist yakkety/s390x/marble
<pitti> as this is killing the workers and causing tmpfail loops
<pitti> so hinting it is the right solution
<pitti> and Laney did that
<pitti> so the next britney run ought to pick this up
<seb128> pitti, Laney did that earlier, shouldn't it have picked it up by now?
<pitti> ah, because it's in progress, and we wait for that, it's not failed
<pitti> meh
 * pitti hints it harder
<pitti> will go in next roud
<pitti> roud
<pitti> round
<seb128> pitti, thanks!
<seb128> Mirv, ^
<Laney> meow
<Laney> pitti: what did you do?
<Laney> I killed it from pending.json but that didn't work, it came back
 * Laney wasn't sure how to clear it
<pitti> Laney: the blacklisting on the workers is a bit poor right now, they don't get marked as failed; I think they should be, that's also something for next week
<pitti> if someone could file a bug about this, I'd appreciate
<Laney> pitti: fine, but I want to know how you cleared out the inprogress too so I can do that next time
<pitti> Laney: I didn't, I just force-skiptest'ed qt
<pitti> right now nothign tells britney that the test is "done" (i. e. not really ran, but ignored)
<Laney> nod
<Laney> but force-badtest could force INPROGRESS too
<Laney> filed the other bug anwyays
<pitti> Laney: no, that only forces over failures
<pitti> regressions, I mean
<Laney> pitti: is there a reason it has to be like that?
<pitti> Laney: no, we could fix britney to apply force-badtest on inprogress
<Laney> ya, that was my question really
<pitti> Laney: but I think we should still clean up the blacklisting handling, as there's no feedback from infra â britney
<pitti> and we have to have explicit hints
<Laney> pitti: I filed both
<pitti> thanks
<doko> Mirv, please could you have a look at the pocl ftbfs? there seem to be issues on i386, however pulling the second clang version into main is a no-go
<doko> Mirv, the alternative is to remove the pocl dependency
<seb128> pitti, did you see Laney's reply on bug #1575152?
<ubottu> bug 1575152 in gstreamer1.0 (Ubuntu Xenial) "[SRU] gstreamer 1.8.1" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1575152
<seb128> slangasek, xnox, seems the upstart changes in yakkety are not warning free, .xsession-errors has some complains about UpdateActivationEnvironment
<xnox> seb128, right, that's what i thought was the case which tinoco (?!) said are all good.
<xnox> let me find where we talked about that
<inaddy> xnox: me
<inaddy> ?
<xnox> inaddy, oh. are you Trevinho?
<inaddy> tinoco == inaddy
<inaddy> not me =)
<xnox> seb128, https://launchpad.net/~3v1n0
<xnox> inaddy, not you =)
<Trevinho> xnox: ehm?
<Trevinho> ah...
<Trevinho> seb128: which warning? any log?
<seb128> Trevinho, bug #1578934
<ubottu> bug 1578934 in upstart (Ubuntu) " Method 'UpdateActivationEnvironment' is only available at the canonical object path '/org/freedesktop/DBus'" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1578934
<xnox> Trevinho, possibly there are things we try to push before dbus is up...
<Trevinho> xnox: no, it's just about fixing the dbus path
<xnox> =)
<Trevinho> xnox: it's one line change in dbus_proxy = ...
<Trevinho> xnox: /org/freedesktop/DBus instead of /
<xnox>  /o\ that's what i said, i never recalled that thing actually worked right.... =/
<Trevinho> xnox: it's weird that it fixed the pete-woods bug, on his terminal... As thigns were exported
<Trevinho> but, well... fixing the path should fix things
<Trevinho> xnox: should I do the branch, or you do it?
<xnox> Trevinho, send a merge proposal and I can land it for you
<Mirv> tjaalton: doko is interested in you looking into pocl ftbfs, at 17:31
<Trevinho> xnox: ok, fine
<doko> Mirv, ouch again ...
<Trevinho> xnox: here you are https://code.launchpad.net/~3v1n0/upstart/activation-proper-dbus-path/+merge/294025
<Trevinho> xnox: FYI this error wasn't present at the time you did the patch, though... Since testing it in trusty still works with no errors.
<xnox> fun.
<xnox> does this new thing work in both old and new?
<Trevinho> xnox: yes
<Trevinho> xnox: can you also care about SRUing those MPs?
<xnox> maybe
<Trevinho> maybe? :)
<Trevinho> xnox: Iv'e tested that change again, and it seems that it also fixes some missing env vars now... so nice one
<wutf> are there sufficient tests in place to use the pre-release ubuntu?
<wutf> i used xenial long before it was released and experienced few problems
<wutf> the only real problem i noticed is that sometimes the updater would get into a weird inconsistent state, in which case i would just ignore it and it would eventually fix itself
<sarnold> it's probably fine for enthusiasts, though I wouldn't recommend it for people who just want a computer to work
<sarnold> but if you like filing bug reports when things break, it should fit alright :)
 * dobey wishes computers would work
<wutf> sarnold, what kind of testing framework do you guys have?
<wutf> is general system stability tested before packages go into the devel release?
<sarnold> wutf: http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/update_excuses.html
<dobey> not exactly
<dobey> autopkgtests get run, but those of course don't test everything
<wutf> there is an automated test generation and running framework?
<sarnold> test running
<wutf> ah
<sarnold> the tests have to be built into the packages using http://dep.debian.net/deps/dep8/
<dobey> if there was something generating tests automatically, i'd be more afraid of something other than my pc not breaking
<wutf> you could autogenerate tests using fuzzing
<dobey> viva la robolucion
<sarnold> dobey: lol
<sarnold> fuzzing only gets you so far. very little of what is tested via autopkgtests would be reproducable with fuzzing testing
<wutf> command line tools can have the fuzzer seeded with the man page
<wutf> gui tools could run through UIs
<wutf> ^_^
<dobey> i think we have a fairly decent idea of how to build our tests
<sarnold> funny enough, i'm at the moment reading a debdiff that adds dep-8 tests to a package: https://launchpadlibrarian.net/258172429/spl-linux_0.6.5.6-0ubuntu1_0.6.5.6-0ubuntu3.diff.gz
<wutf> is there a process for automatically keeping packages up to date with their releases?
<wutf> or are all packages handled manually
<nacc> wutf: what do you mean?
<nacc> wutf: do you mean upstream releases?
<wutf> i just sed -r 's/xenial/yakkety/' my /etc/apt/sources.list, and i'm wondering how there are so many new packages already...
<wutf> yeah
<nacc> well, the version in debian (which is typically the version in ubuntu, or was at some point) is not necessarily the same as upstream
<nacc> there is an autosync that goes on for some time, for packages that can be synced (already in-sync between ubuntu and debian)
<wutf> actually i mean for a specific package, like ode
<wutf> ie a set of scripts that check each package..
<nacc> ode has the same version in 16.04 as in 16.10?
<wutf> yeah, but if it's updated..
<wutf> a new release comes out
<wutf> that's handled manually for all packages?
<nacc> in debian
<nacc> ?
<wutf> no
<wutf> up-up-stream
<wutf> upupstream
<nacc> wutf: IME, typically, a new version of a package only shows up if it's in Debian, unless there is someone actively pacakging/maintaining it in Ubuntu
<nacc> for much of universe, i think it's just what is in Debian
<nacc> but don't quote me on that :)
<nacc> if Ubuntu does jump Debian's versioning, you can see that with a -0ubuntu1 style versioning (the -0 implies that is not a Debian published base)
<wutf> i'm asking how it's possible that so many packages are kept up to date with their source releases
<wutf> if it's not automated
<sarnold> it's mostly up to debian maintainers to periodically check
<sarnold> there are some automated tools (uscan) to try to help out but it's potentially overwhelming
<nacc> it has to be packaged by someone
<nacc> sarnold: does debian automate uscan runs? (j/w)
<nacc> i know one of the websites notifies you if there is a new upstream based upon d/watch
<wutf> ah, uscan
<sarnold> nacc: ahh that might be more like it, perhaps uscan is only used once you're aware that there's something new :)
<nacc> uscan + uupdate is how you update a package if the d/watch file is able to indicate a new upstream version
<nacc> but it still requires someone to run those commands, aiui, and to verify the packaging is right, etc
<wutf> this makes more sense. you write watch files for packages and get notified automatically when an update is detected
<nacc> and i'm not entirely sure there is a notification side of htings (I assume there is, but I don't know where it lives or runs if so)
<nacc> you can see here, at least, even though the watch file is broken, something did look for it: https://packages.qa.debian.org/p/php7.0.html
<hallyn> pitti: got a minute by chance?
<wutf> upgrade went off without a hitch
<wutf> i searched online for any sign of autuomated uscans but didn't see anything
<nacc> wutf: well clearly the debian package QA is running something
<wutf> link?
<wutf> ah.
<wutf> yes, clearly they are doing automated uscan:)
<pitti> hallyn: sorry, closing session > airport > 15 h flight :(
<wutf> https://ouaza.com/static/conf/pts-internals.pdf
<sarnold> pitti: oof. safe travels.
<hallyn> pitti: \o  have a good and safe flight
<hallyn> mbiebl: can i pester you? :)
<hallyn> hm, guess not.  back to the google
<pitti> sarnold, hallyn: thanks
<tdaitx> doko: thanks for the arm32 fix
#ubuntu-devel 2016-05-07
<hallyn> pitti: mbiebl_: so i think i've got a bug in yakkety's deb-systemd-helper:  when libvirt-bin.service is renamed t libvirtd.service as part of packaging update, it fails on the new code that calls systemctl preset bc of a onexisting file
<hallyn> is that bc the service unit file was renamed but the preset not yet?
<hallyn> but i dunno what exactly it means that does not exist:
<hallyn> http://paste.ubuntu.com/16270773/
<Umeaboy> Hi!
<Umeaboy> In 15.10 I can't find nouveau-kms.conf in /etc/modprobe.d/
<Umeaboy> I want to run this command, but I'm thinking of changing the name of the conf-file to blacklist.conf: echo options nouveau modeset=0 | sudo tee -a /etc/modprobe.d/nouveau-kms.conf
<Umeaboy> Would that be correct?
<hallyn> yay, seem to have working upgrades
<hallyn> urg, so /etc/init.d/* are considered conffiles?  they can't be removed?
<alkisg> Hi, apt complains that this repository of mine [http://ts.sch.gr/repo/dists/stable/InRelease] is signed using a weak key.
<alkisg> I read in https://wiki.debian.org/Teams/Apt/Sha1Removal that sha1 is obsolete.
<alkisg> But my repository also has sha256... Reprepro doesn't yet support sha512, is the solution to just completely remove sha1?
<alkisg> Hmm it looks like my DSA key won't do, and I'll need a new, RSA one...?
<cjwatson> alkisg: The problem isn't the checksums in the file, but that the entire file is signed using a SHA-1 digest.  Pass --digest-algo SHA512 to gpg
<cjwatson> alkisg: Works with DSA too, although switching to RSA is generally a good idea
<alkisg> cjwatson: thanks, looking how to tell reprepro to pass options to gpg...
<cjwatson> I don't know that part, although at absolute worst you could give it a wrapper
<Umeaboy> Hi!
<Umeaboy> I just installed makemkv in 15.10 and I got no errors with that.
<Umeaboy> I get this error when it tries to read a perfectly scratch free DVD disc: DEBUG: Code 101019396 at o#cQLC'ojTv?,F~6kN:29396092
<Umeaboy> DEBUG: Code 101019396 at o#cQLC'ojTv?,F~6kN:29393930
<Umeaboy> ILLEGAL REQUEST:MEDIA REGION CODE IS MISMATCHED TO LOGICAL UNIT REGION'
<Umeaboy> at offset '1048576'
<Umeaboy> How can I solve that?
<Umeaboy> I have checked that there's no smudge on the lens.
<Umeaboy> It seems like my drive has a RPC protection.
<alkisg> cjwatson: I couldn't make it work with my DSA-1024 key, but I was able to do it with a new RSA-1024 key. My last test was with plain `gpg --clearsign some.text`, without repositories involved; gpg wouldn't produce a SHA256 or SHA512 signature for my DSA-1024 key.
<alkisg> *a new RSA-4096 key, sorry
<juliank> alkisg: DSA1 keys only support 160 bit hashes, so they cannot support the larger SHA2 variants (without truncation)
<juliank> (JFTR)
<juliank> The correct step is to roll out a new RSA key like you generated, sign it with the old DSA key, and tell your users to switch to the new key in a message signed with the old one (or package, if you ship key in a package)
<alkisg> juliank: thank you for verifying this, I will indeed ship a new key with a package.
<cjwatson> juliank: It is possible with truncation, but certainly using a stronger key is better.
<juliank> cjwatson: I heard that,  but I'm not really sure if GPG supports that
<juliank> Maybe it's a different algo setting than the normal SHA256 and stuff
<cjwatson> juliank: We had it working for an old Ubuntu key at one point, which is why I confidently claimed it worked :-)
<cjwatson> I guess I might have missed something.  It wouldn't have been with current apt.
<psusi> ummm... why does it appear that uds.ubuntu.com has not been updated since last year?
<TJ-> with unity desktop which component handles ssh key passphrases? I've just found that using a remote SSH session the pass-phrase for the keyring is bring prompted for in the remote PC's desktop, preventing the SSH session from doing a 'git clone <host-entry-in-.ssh/config>:<path>' but can't tell what to report the bug against
<mdeslaur> TJ-: try unsetting SSH_AUTH_SOCK in the remote session
<TJ-> mdeslaur: ooo, thanks, I was just looking in the 'env' for something like that
<TJ-> mdeslaur: thank you, that did it. is that a 'bugette' in the ssh env setup?
<mdeslaur> I'm not sure why it's being set in your remote session
<TJ-> me neither; I'll investigate. It's a relative new clean 16.04 install with Unity I've not done any tinkering yet
<TJ-> there's a weird bug with gnome-screensaver and pam-yubico interaction too preventing unlocking a locked GUI session; when using challenge-response the system-wide challenge file cannot be accessed because g-s runs as $USER but any login/sudo etc causes the file to be owned by root with only u+rw. there's a fix upstream so might need to SRU that
#ubuntu-devel 2017-05-01
<mapreri> bdrung: I must say that I don't understand people putting files generated by debhelper & friends into .gitignoreâ¦ don't you run `debian/rules clean` from time to time? :)
<Unit193> Oh gosh the old bzr repos had .pc and patches applied. >_<
<mapreri> Unit193: of what? :|
<mapreri> bdmurray: https://git.launchpad.net/ubuntu-dev-tools/commit/?id=67c353d91b1518fb8c90978461ff88850c5b9e2f :(  /me is a serious supporter of the 79-chars limit :)
<mapreri> but I'll stop complaining, I know I should just do the work ^^
<mwhudson> mapreri: git clean -ffdx is my debian/rules clean ;-)
<mwhudson> argh argh python3-keyrings.alt appears to be full of unicode bugs
<chatter29> hey guys
<chatter29> allah is doing
<chatter29> sun is not doing allah is doing
<chatter29> to accept Islam say that i bear witness that there is no deity worthy of worship except Allah and Muhammad peace be upon him is his slave and messenger
<nacc> mapreri: i'm happy to rebase :)
<ScottK> rbasak: Would you please have a look at Bug 1687368?  I don't see how that's postfix's fault.
<ubottu> bug 1687368 in postfix (Ubuntu) "no mail.log on ubunutu 17.04" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1687368
<nacc> ScottK: rbasak is on holiday
<nacc> ScottK: i can look
<nacc> ScottK: on a fresh install of 17.04 is /var/log/ 755 or 775?
<nacc> ScottK: that is, was it an end-user configuration change?
<ScottK> No idea.
<ScottK> I'm not involved in Ubuntu development anymore, but try to care about packages I maintain in Debian.
<ScottK> I'd ask the reporter.
<nacc> ScottK: ack, i'll ask and triage
<nacc> ScottK: thanks for pointing it out
<ScottK> yw
<nacc> ScottK: agreed it's likely a config issue, not a postfix bug
<Zta> Hi. It it possible to get a log of all selections made in the installation during installation of Ubuntu 16.04?  I'd like to add those selections on a ks.preseed and have it fed into an automatic installation
<nacc> Zta: debconf-get-selections? not sureif all are preseedable or not
<Zta> Thanks, I'll have a look once this completely manual installation finishes.
<Zta> hm, command not found.  And /var/log/installer doesn't show anything interesting.
<nacc> Zta: install debconf-utils
<powersj> plars: in order to get artful server ISO tests going can I have you look at https://code.launchpad.net/~powersj/utah/remove_cdromupgrade/+merge/323337
<Zta> nacc: But will that only list installed packages?  Or also the actual steps perfomed in the installer, e.g. paritioning, hostname, username, etc?
<nacc> Zta: i'm not sure -- it will list all debconf entries, which is the maximum of what is preseed-able aiui
<nacc> Zta: but like i said, i'm not sure everything is preseedable
<nacc> Zta: tbh, isn't it easier to do an install, image it and then just use that imag?
<Zta> debconf-get-selections output looks interesting!
<plars> powersj: in the middle of something at the moment, but I'll take a look as soon as I get a second
<powersj> plars: thanks
<mapreri> nacc: would you alos be happy to re-submit your MR as a git-based MR?  I just would like to cross this action item that I put on myself of "move u-d-t to git" and yours is the last bzr-based MR
<mapreri> of course if the tests are coming in the next few days I'll happily wait as well :)
<bdrung> my git branch is normally clean, but it is nice to be able to build the package without having to many files listed when running status
<bdrung> mapreri, why do you prefer 79-chars over 99-chars limit? the screens are not that small any more
<nacc> mapreri: asbsolutely
<nacc> *basolutely
<nacc> when submitting an autopkgtest rerun, is it possible via the URL to specify all arches should get rerun? or do i need to always manually create all the urls?
<bdmurray> rbasak: Should there be a Zesty SRU for bug 1683237?
<ubottu> bug 1683237 in krb5 (Ubuntu Zesty) "krb5-user: kinit fails for OTP user when using kdc discovery via DNS" [Undecided,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1683237
<nacc> bdmurray: looks like it
<bdmurray> nacc: try some url-hackery, what could go wrong?
<nacc> bdmurray: :)
<bdmurray> nacc: well I couldn't get any changes to arch to work
<nacc> bdmurray: i can manual change the arch to each i need
<nacc> bdmurray: but it's a little annoying when i know i need all of them
#ubuntu-devel 2017-05-02
<Skuggen> nacc: About LP: #1686859, Apparmor blocks a test in ruby-riddle because it tries to read a file from the build directory
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1686859 in ruby-riddle (Ubuntu) "ruby-riddle tests start mysql server with unknown option --force" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1686859
<Skuggen> But this doesn't look like it's a new test, so not sure if it actually affects the build system?
<meebey> hello everyone. I have noticed an issue recently that the launchpad auto builder feature seem to use the base xenial repository plus the xenial-updates repository. this creates a problem for Ubuntu LTS users that are disabling the xenial-updates one because packages build using the launchpad builder will have dependencies that cannot be satisfied on pristine xenial, without xenial-updates
<meebey> does someone know if I can tell the auto builder to not use the xenial-updates repository so that the binary packages will avoid having higher versioned dependencies than needed?
<sarnold> meebey: hit the 'edit ppa dependencies' link, then you can change between a handful of options
<meebey> sarnold: so going from "Default" to "Security" should do the trick I guess
<meebey> sarnold: I will give that a spin and I will check the next build if it dropped the xenial-updates depdency
<meebey> sarnold: thanks for the pointer
<mapreri> bdmurray: because in my screen if I put 2 vim instances side-by-side, 99 chars on both won't fit.
<Unit193> "Dun do dat"
<mapreri> Since I have a 2k display these days my actual limit is > 79, but still < 99.
<mapreri> but I like to keep 79, as it happes from time to time to have to use a smaller display
<mapreri> Unit193: don't you never copy from one file to another? :P
<Laney> I got 99 chars but the screen too small
<Unit193> :D
 * Laney ahem
<mapreri> bdmurray: also, PEP-8 recommends it :P
<pitti> juliank: do you happen to know how to pipe apt-get and "| apt-listchanges --what=both --apt" together? i. e. how do I tell  apt-get upgrade to not do anything but print a "version 2 pipeline"?
<pitti> I don't want to change "which" in /etc/apt/listchanges.conf (which defaults to "news" at least in Debian)
<pitti> err, I mean s/--what/--which/ of course
<juliank> pitti: No sorry
<pitti> juliank: ok, thanks
<doko> jbicha: gtk4.0: you write the gail packages are dropped, but these are still in the control file
<smoser> slangasek, we spoke a bit yesterday, just fyi, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/open-iscsi/+bug/1666573 is the open-iscsi bug that i think is the last bit of failure in its autopackage tests.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1666573 in open-iscsi (Ubuntu) "transient systemd ordering cycle in boot with overlayroot ver read-only open-iscsi root" [Medium,Confirmed]
<jbicha> doko: I was told gtk4 hadn't figured out accessibility yet; I don't know if that means they'll bring back gail or not
<rbasak> bdmurray: I think bug 1683237's Zesty task is accurate. It needs someone to drive the SRU though.
<ubottu> bug 1683237 in krb5 (Ubuntu Zesty) "krb5-user: kinit fails for OTP user when using kdc discovery via DNS" [Undecided,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1683237
<rbasak> powersj: ^ I would drop server-next from that bug, as we don't have a ready patch for Zesty. But it's up to you, or we can discuss later as a team.
<ahasenack> I can take a look perhaps, I'm familiar with kerberos
<rbasak> Can someone remind me where I can find the sources that generate http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ubuntu-server/ please?
<powersj> rbasak: I agree
<rbasak> It might be in the crontab only, in which case could someone take a peek please?
<rbasak> I can't remember where the script that generates http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ubuntu-server/merges.html is kept :-/
<rbasak> And http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com redirects to ci.ubuntu.com, which seems a little evil to me :-/
<rbasak> Aha:  lp:ubuntu-reports
<rbasak> apw: I wonder if you can help with lp:ubuntu-reports? Do you (or know who) have access to the cronjob/system it runs on please? I'm asking because you're an admin via ~ubuntu-defect-analysts
<apw> rbasak, i might, i have access to a lot of stuff
<apw> rbasak, what you trying to do
<rbasak> apw: http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ubuntu-server/merges.html is out of date - it stopped working in September. I'd like to kick it.
<rbasak> I'm running the script locally to check it still succeeds.
<rbasak> Though I suspect a stale lock. IIRC, something else (sponsoring queue) had broken at a similar time.
<apw> rbasak, ok i have access to that box it appears
<apw> rbasak, oh but only for kernel perhaps
<bdmurray> rbasak: I have access to it.
<bdmurray> mapreri: I think you got the wrong nick that starts with bd
<mapreri> right, that was meant to be bdrung, sorry
<mapreri> bdrung: if you are still interested, look some dozen lines up for my messages :)
<rbasak> apw: would you be able to add me to ~ubuntu-reports-dev please?
<rbasak> That's so that I can push fixes to lp:ubuntu-reports/server as/when needed.
<apw> rbasak, sounds reasonable
<fossfreedom_> hi - for a debian package (via a postinst?) any suggestions on where I can setup an environment variable when a terminal session (gnome-terminal or tilix)?  I though about appending to /etc/bash.bashrc but that just seems wrong somehow.
<fossfreedom_> s/terminal session/terminal session is run/
<cyphermox> bdmurray: hey; looks like the desktop team uses desktop-bugs to track bugmail, but we look for things subscribed by desktop-packages for MIRs; do you know why we're not using just one team for this?
<cyphermox> hysterical raisins?
<bdmurray> cyphermox: It was some time ago but I don't think they agreed with the packages we thought they should be subscribed to and d-b went to their email and d-p went into the void.
<cyphermox> ah
<bdmurray> nacc: Did your comment in bug 1593489 mean you want to work on the SRUs for it?
<ubottu> bug 1593489 in resolvconf (Ubuntu Zesty) "resolvconf postrm is broken, purge breaks DNS" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1593489
<nacc> bdmurray: yeah, i can
<xnox> juliank, but the other spaces fix in apt-key / config parsing was good. Apport went down from 9 errors to 1 error.
<xnox> =)))))
<xnox> apport 2 - 1 juliank
<juliank> xnox: Does it use any keys at all, did it use any keys before?
<juliank> The problem is: If it just uses the wrong keyrings, fixing it breaks something else.
<juliank> If it uses no keyrings, we can decide on how to deal with it :)
<xnox> juliank, i think the difference from xenial is that, in the past the sandbox had trusted.gpg with all the keys; now the sandbox only has trusted.gpg.d/ with all the keys as snippets.
<xnox> because we moved onto one key per snippet arrangement.
<xnox> (as in archive changed, apport changed, and now this is exposed....)
<xnox> maybe i need to set more things / settings when calling apt.Cache, I'm happy to do that.
<xnox> but e.g. ideally i would not want to construct trusted.gpg keyring out of trusted.gpg.d snippets.
<xnox> and my understanding was that trusted.gpg is not required.
<juliank> xnox: It's just the LP-PPA key being in the keybox format instead of a public keyring format as required
<xnox> juliank, oooooh
<xnox> juliank, that would be my bug to fix, and i know even where.
<xnox> juliank, thank you, did not spot that.
<juliank> xnox: APT should be more helpful, but unfortunately public key packets do not contain a header, making it hard to identify reliably
<juliank> There's some patterns we could detect I guess
<xnox> juliank, i think i fixed that, and copying the keyring before. but then hit the space bug which is now fixed.
<xnox> but i have since lost my fixed up test-suite to use apt-key for key retrieval (to not create keyboxes) and to copy through trusted.gpg.d snippets.
<xnox> my bad.
<xnox> juliank, and about accept keybox format, was that rejected forever?
<juliank> Yup
<xnox> juliank, and those who want elliptic curve cryptography can get lost - quantum computing will crack elliptic curve keys before it can crack RSA keys
<juliank> Well, if you find a way to get public key packets out of it reasonably easy
<xnox> without calling gpg, right?!
<xnox> (forking out gpg)
<juliank> Yes
<juliank> We only have gpgv, we'd have to parse the file ourselves.
<xnox> juliank, everything is awesome now =) apport 2 - 3 juliank
<juliank> :D
<xnox> https://code.launchpad.net/~xnox/apport/no-to-keybox/+merge/323513
<juliank> xnox: I don't really want to know how that works in apt-key. There's some weird stuff going on
<juliank> Thousand lines of shell script does not read that good.
<juliank> I'm not sure we want to keep adv around forever, though
<juliank> But well, I'm not sure we'll ever remove it
<momken> Hello
<momken> Is there any plan to upgrade (k)ubuntu to Qt 5.6.3 or Qt 5.8.1?
<momken> These two versions contain certain bug fixes in inserting Persian/Arabic non-visible control chars for Qt text engines
<momken> https://bugreports.qt.io/browse/QTBUG-42074
<momken> https://bugreports.qt.io/browse/QTBUG-58364
<juliank> xnox: So, how (?) did your testing with the systemd timers go?
<juliank> I think the locking variant works well
<slashd> For SRU, I have uploaded the following : nagios-nrpe | 3.0.1-3ubuntu17.04.1 in Zesty upload queue, but then noticed that I should have use "3.0.1-3ubuntu0.17.04.1" instead. Can you reject my upload so I can re-upload it with the corrected pkg version ==> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/zesty/+queue?queue_state=1&queue_text=nagios-nrpe
<slangasek> slashd: done
<slashd> slangasek, thank you very much
<tsimonq2> !info qtbase-opensource-src xenial
<ubottu> Package qtbase-opensource-src does not exist in xenial
<tsimonq2> Gah
<tsimonq2> !info src:qtbase-opensource-src xenial
<ubottu> Package srcqtbase-opensource-src does not exist in xenial
<tsimonq2> !info qmake-qt5 xenial
<ubottu> Package qmake-qt5 does not exist in xenial
<tsimonq2> Oh for pete's sake, I'll just do this in a PM, sorry for the spam
#ubuntu-devel 2017-05-03
<meebey> can I trigger a "BinNMU" on launchpad PPA without a sourceful re-upload?
<meebey> I have changed the PPA dependencies and thus I only need to trigger a rebuild + package version bump, not sure if this is support
<RAOF> meebey: Nope, not supported sorry.
<_val_> Hi everyone. On ubuntu 14.04.5 LTS I want to install this version of open-vm-tools: https://github.com/vmware/open-vm-tools/releases  Could someone create a .deb package for version 10.1.5 or 10.1.0
<sarnold> _val_: the backportpackage command from the ubuntu-dev-tools package may be able to rebuild the zesty version on trusty for you
<_val_> sarnold: I come from a RH background.. I've no idea how ubuntu/debian does things
<_val_> I'm not sure what tools I need etc.. etc.. to build the package. Would be awesome if someone could build the package for 14.04.5 LTS
<sarnold> _val_: http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/trusty/en/man1/backportpackage.1.html
<sarnold> _val_: I'm thinking here, you create a launchpad account, create a ppa that can build for trusty, and then run something like 'backportpackage -u ppa:val/ppa open-vm-tools'  --- if the package is 'easy' to rebuild on trusty, then launchpad should build it for you
<sarnold> _val_: of course there's always the chance that too much has changed and the build won't Just Work
<sarnold> _val_: doing 'clean' local builds is enough of a pain that if you can get launchpad to do it for you it's probably worth the trouble of creating an account :)
<ricotz> sarnold, pbuilder-dist is not hard to use ;)
<_val_> sarnold: thanks for the link. Having a loop there
<_val_> s/loop/look
<apw> we have two cases where (we think) update-manager asked apt-daemon to install linux-image-4.4.0-77-generic and linux-signed-4.4.0-77-generic directly ... leading to a broken machine
<juliank> apw: That leads me to the idea that maybe we should have metadata indicating purely-automatic packages, that is, stuff you normally should not install manually.
<apw> juliank, it would be nice to be able to say, really this is not a package you want to install ever
<apw> (we believe we have found teh cause of that behaviour and it is now understood0
<rbasak> How about an update-motd snippet that checks for known dodgy manually installed packages and warns you?
<rbasak> "You have linux-XXX marked as manually installed, which may cause problems with automatic kernel updates"
<rbasak> or just "which may cause problems with kernel updates"
<rbasak> (as it'll happen even if not automatic)
<infinity> rbasak: Wouldn't have done any good in this case, those packages were marked automatic.
<infinity> (And, I'm not sure what good it would ever really do, except to annoy people who intentionally install a kernel manually to test things)
<jbicha> rbasak: will you be doing zesty SRUs today? I'm interested in the GNOME 3.24.1 and gjs updates
<rbasak> I'll try, but I'm not sure I'll manage it. I've got quite a bit at the top of my list which is mostly unblocking other people :-/
<jbicha> np, maybe someone will get to it by tomorrow then :)
<rbasak> jbicha: is there anything I can help with that should be quick for me (easy and obvious, etc)?
<jbicha> rbasak: I'm just interested in my zesty SRUs that have fully aged now
<rbasak> Just Zesty? gnome-* and gjs? Does that include gnome-shell-extension-autohidetopbar?
<jbicha> yes if you can, and mutter too
 * rbasak is looking
<rbasak> jbicha: your detailed comments made it very easy for me. Thank you. Let me know if I missed anything.
<rbasak> I'm not sure whether to recommend one way or the other, but breaking the updates down into multiple isolated bugs helped too in this case. Less lining up and checking of things needed.
<jbicha> I probably should have split mutter & gnome-shell into separate bugs since they were actually independently upgradable this time
<rbasak> Two I can keep in my head at once :-)
<rbasak> bluesabre: around? About your lightdm-gtk-greeter merge.
<rbasak> (else I'll review in the bug)
<rbasak> fossfreedom: around? ^
<nacc> cpaelzer: i'm around if you want to debug your `usd tag` issue
<cpaelzer> nacc: hiho
<cpaelzer> nacc: so far I just dumped it to the bug to not forget
<cpaelzer> I haven't checked anything in detail
<nacc> cpaelzer: ok, it's starnge the other tags worked
<nacc> it's a common code path
<nacc> for all the tags, that is
<cpaelzer> ok will do the local diff, just a sec
<nacc> cpaelzer: which srcpkg?
<nacc> cpaelzer: ah dovecot ok
<cpaelzer> dovecot
<cpaelzer> ha on ntp it worked
<cpaelzer> I had assumed it would generally be broken
<nacc> cpaelzer: yeah it's strange
<nacc> cpaelzer: i've not seen that in a case where `git status` isn't also showing some output
<nacc> cpaelzer: it's possibly pygit's status() is broken, but seems somewhat unlikely
<nacc> cpaelzer: would need to see the output after the diff i suggested
<nacc> and maybe also
<nacc> print(self.local_repo.status()) in the same if
<cpaelzer> the diff is broken, I'm repairing atm
<cpaelzer> (no run there)
<nacc> cpaelzer: shot
<nacc> cpaelzer: from usd.run import run at the top
<cpaelzer> sure already there
<nacc> cpaelzer: sorry about that
<cpaelzer> nacc: the status command is still considering it clean
<cpaelzer> nacc: the local_repo.status output is new to me maybe you read it faster
<cpaelzer> nacc: I updated the bug
<nacc> cpaelzer: thanks
<cpaelzer> nacc: http://paste.ubuntu.com/24505508/ for here
<nacc> cpaelzer: http://www.pygit2.org/working-copy.html#status
<nacc> cpaelzer: what does `git status --ignored` say? :)
<nacc> cpaelzer: per libgit2 src 2^14 is GIT_STATUS_IGNORED
<nacc> cpaelzer: did the new upstream add a .gitignore by any chance?
<cpaelzer> nacc: git status --ignored is also clean and there is no .gitignore in the current branch (merge-artful)
<nacc> cpaelzer: well, the local_repo.status() says those files are ignored
<nacc> cpaelzer: not sure why
<cpaelzer> nacc: that merge has a MP, can you clone the MP and reproduce on that?
<nacc> cpaelzer: sure
<nacc> cpaelzer: i don't get an error
<cpaelzer> hrm very interesting nacc
<cpaelzer> nacc: did you commit anything to usd the last 48 hours that might be related
<cpaelzer> I haven't updated since then
<nacc> cpaelzer: not that i know of?
<xnox> cjwatson, i am preparing sru to fix https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/openssh/+bug/1686618 in zesty only. Whilst it is in sync with Debian at the moment, and this code path is affected in Debian too, it is not as severe.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1686618 in openssh (Ubuntu Zesty) "ssh connection attempts fail if hw crypto support on s390x is enabled on 17.04" [High,Triaged]
<xnox> because debian does not ship the necessory userspace component to enable hw crypto support (openssl-ibmca is not packaged there yet)
<xnox> hence in practice it's much harder to fall into that trap there.
<xnox> it's just two small upstream cherry-picks.
<xnox> already part of 7.5 in experimental.
<xnox> (and artful)
<cjwatson> xnox: sure, go ahead
<cjwatson> xnox: IIRC the seccomp sandbox was refactored between 7.4 and 7.5, in which case you'll have to be careful to get the cherry-picks right
<xnox> cjwatson, tah.
<cjwatson> (but if that's the case it'll be obvious due to conflicts)
<xnox> looks like my cherry-picks are before the refactor that got rid of macros substituition; but i think i will need the missing header zcrypt now.
<rbasak> nacc: thank you for "usd build-source --for-merge". Nice :)
<rbasak> We might want -sa in a few other cases. Like an Ubuntu-native native package perhaps.
<rbasak> Uh
<rbasak> An Ubuntu-native non-native package?
<rbasak> Though perhaps I should have an orig locally in that case.
<nacc> rbasak: yeah there are probably a few other cases to consider
<juliank> xnox: I want to release apt 1.4.2 soon (today/tomorrow), and I think I'll go with my locking in the script idea.
<xnox> juliank, i have tested it out, it does work as intended.
<xnox> juliank, we may need more indicators as to what is happening though in the future =)
<xnox> on boot i opened terminal and typed apt-get update, and got bamboozled why everything is locked, only to realise that apt-daily[-upgrade] are running =)
 * xnox ponders if we need desktop notifications, and/or command line notications
<xnox> apt database locked by:
<xnox> automated daily-ugprade
<xnox> user foobar
<xnox> whatnot
<juliank> xnox: Ah, yes. We need to look who locked the database
<xnox> to be honest, non-root messages from apt are ugly and look like debug messages
<xnox> not able to lock /var/lib/apt/foo/bar/something/rather/lists is a pointless message
<juliank> Yes, but if it says:
<juliank> Not able to lock lists directory: Already in used by ....
<juliank> or something, that might be better
<xnox> Error: Lacking priviledges to access apt directories. Are you root? use -v to see debug messages
<juliank> We do actually want to have the path somewhere, in case you use different options
<xnox> Error: Unable to lock apt database. Already in use by: apt-daily.service
<juliank> But that can be N
<juliank> (notice)
<xnox> imho those paths should be hidden by default, it's way too debuging
<xnox> imho those paths should be hidden by default, it's way too debuggy
<juliank> I don't really disagree
<juliank> The question is how to get a descriptive string for the lock
<xnox> >_< o_O ah
<juliank> s/the lock/the entity holding the lock/
<xnox> well, i would say apt by default should wait for the lock, and print who is using the lock, with a timeout.
<xnox> but that is a nasty change of behaviour.
<juliank> Waiting is nice for apt
<xnox> because people expect apt to be non-blocking on locks.
<juliank> not good for apt-get
<xnox> yeah
<juliank> There's some issue figuring out who holds the lock though
<xnox> twats like me expect apt to be human friendly, and apt-get have nasty barking on stderr of cryptic paths.
<juliank> You could display the cgroup, that gets you reasonably far for the timers
<xnox> juliank, well we our selfs should leave hints as to what is holding locks.
<xnox> or yeah, do smart inspections like that.
<juliank> But that needs more locking or is (a bit) racy.
<xnox> hints do not need to be accurate or with locking
<juliank> So, if we acquire the lock, just leave a message in the lock file.
<xnox> i do not know who, but somebody is holding a lock, is the status quo. With better wording alone it will be better.
<juliank> If other clients are waiting, there might be a race if they get processed in order, but that's not terribly problematic
<xnox> well you want to leave a structured message in the lock file, because i18n
<juliank> Oh, we can also leave the pid in there and then just check against the pid that really locked the file (which we can get via fcntl)
<hjd> Hi all :) I see that http://qa.ubuntuwire.org/ftbfs/ still lists Zesty build failures. When can I expect it (and semi-related pages) to start displaying artful issues?
<juliank> And a fancy countdown maybe
<juliank> Waiting for lock. Cancelling in <...> seconds. Press Ctrl+C to cancel now.
<xnox> hjd, i guess wgrant might adjust that ubuntuwire page for artful? Or maybe somehow magically make it work against $devel ?
<xnox> please =)
 * wgrant does so
<wgrant> Sorry, been busy lately
<hjd> wgrant: cool, thank you :) (you're probably aware, but the http://qa.ubuntuwire.org/multidistrotools/ tables also compares with zesty)
<wgrant> Yep,working on that
<wgrant> xnox, hjd: Should all be artful now
<xnox> wgrant, so artsy =)
<hjd> nice :)
<cousin_luigi> Greetings.
<jamespage> anyone give me a clue why python-amqp is stuck in proposed?
<jamespage> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/update_excuses.html#python-amqp
<jamespage> vine seems installable to me at least
<ginggs> jamespage: python-amqp is in main, vine is not
<jamespage> ginggs: ah yes
<jamespage> that was kinda obvious now you point to it
<Unit193> ginggs: I don't suppose you'll do an upload to fix #1680943?
<ginggs> i will if someone tests the version in my ppa
<Unit193> Oh, you never got feedback?  Hrm.  I did, it works.
<Unit193> ginggs: There ya're.
<ginggs> Unit193: thanks, but what is wrong with just putting 'QT_QPA_PLATFORMTHEME= telegram-desktop' in telegramdesktop.desktop ?
<ginggs> the user, that is, as a workaround
<Unit193> ginggs: It'd work, sure.  Just doesn't work to launch it from the terminal without unsetting the var first.  And of course, as all workarounds, not ideal.  That is to say, package updates will either overwrite it, or if you place it in ~/.local/ then updates to the desktop file aren't taken into account.
<Unit193> Also since you applied that patch, I figured I'd just address that.
<ginggs> Unit193: I take it you actually want this in Zesty?
<bluesabre> rbasak: hello!
<Unit193> ginggs: But I'm fine PPA'ing the backport.
<ginggs> Unit193: if you take care of the SRU process, I'll upload to artful and sponsor your SRU to zesty
<Unit193> ginggs: Ah sorry, I got to doing something.  Eh, I think going forward is fine.  As long as the fix is in, then people can use a workaround until they get it.
#ubuntu-devel 2017-05-04
<xnox> I need networking help.... please
<xnox> ubuntu@DEVAC02:~$ sudo ifup enc600
<xnox> RTNETLINK answers: File exists
<xnox> Failed to bring up enc600.
<xnox> ubuntu@DEVAC02:~$ sudo ifdown enc600
<xnox> ifdown: interface enc600 not configured
<xnox> ..
<xnox> what is wrong with me?
<ogra_> xnox, two identical gateway entries (default routes) on different devices ??
<ogra_> if it is urgent you should be able to just force-ignore the error btw: sudo ifup --ignore-errors enc600
<ahasenack> xnox: is enc600 managed by network-manager perhaps?
<xnox> it's in /e/n/i
<ahasenack> n/m could still think it owns it
<ahasenack> unless this isn't a desktop
<ogra_> any other devices in /e/n/i ?
<xnox> hm. there is network manager but it should no be doing anything, everything is done with ifupdown
<ogra_> it should at least not touch anything thats in /e/n/i (unless that changed recently)
<ahasenack> hi, can someone from ubuntu-core-dev please take a look at https://bugs.launchpad.net/debian/+source/krb5/+bug/1688121 and accept my zesty nomination?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1688121 in krb5 (Ubuntu) "KDC/kadmind explicit wildcard listener addresses do not use pktinfo" [Undecided,In progress]
<ahasenack> it was spun off from https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/krb5/+bug/1683237
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1683237 in krb5 (Ubuntu Zesty) "krb5-user: kinit fails for OTP user when using kdc discovery via DNS" [Undecided,In progress]
<ahasenack> (see comment #11)
<ahasenack> (in the latter)
<LocutusOfBorg> ahasenack, what do you need?
<LocutusOfBorg> just provide a patch for all applicable ubuntu series and subscribe sponsors?
<ahasenack> LocutusOfBorg: I need the zesty task to be accepted
<LocutusOfBorg> does it affect only zesty?
<ahasenack> yes, only krb5 1.15
<LocutusOfBorg> I did accept it
<ahasenack> LocutusOfBorg: I want to mark the "ubuntu" task as fix committed, as it's uploaded into artful already
<ahasenack> LocutusOfBorg: thanks!
<ahasenack> LocutusOfBorg: actually, since it's in artful already, that's fix released then, right?
<ahasenack> thx
<LocutusOfBorg> I think it is fixed now (the LP tracker)
<LocutusOfBorg> the Debian task was pointing to upstream bug tracker, not the Debian one
<ahasenack> ops
<LocutusOfBorg> so you want to upload 1.15-2 as 1.15.1ubuntu17.04.1whatever
<LocutusOfBorg> and target zesty
<ahasenack> right
<LocutusOfBorg> feel free to ping me when done
<LocutusOfBorg> (and convert both bugs to SRU)
<ahasenack> there are two other fixes (two more bugs) I want to include
<LocutusOfBorg> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates#SRU_Bug_Template
<LocutusOfBorg> ahasenack, fixed in artful?
<ahasenack> I'm writing the test cases for them
<ahasenack> LocutusOfBorg: yes
<LocutusOfBorg> I don't get it, between -1 and -2?
<ahasenack> LocutusOfBorg: see this comment on the original bug: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/krb5/+bug/1683237/comments/11
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1683237 in krb5 (Ubuntu Zesty) "krb5-user: kinit fails for OTP user when using kdc discovery via DNS" [Undecided,In progress]
<ahasenack> LocutusOfBorg: yes, -2 was synced from debian fixing 3 bugs
<LocutusOfBorg> ah ok
<ahasenack> LocutusOfBorg: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/krb5/+bug/1683237/comments/9 is the artful upload
<ahasenack> LocutusOfBorg: I'm decomposing that original #1683237 into the 3 real bugs it fixes
<LocutusOfBorg> ok
<ahasenack> to comply with the SRU format
<ahasenack> and 3 separate test cases
<LocutusOfBorg> just if you change the code from -2, you need to first update artful/Debian
<LocutusOfBorg> and then SRU to all applicable Ubuntu supported releases
<ahasenack> no code change, the same 3 patches apply cleanly
<LocutusOfBorg> (sorry if I'm saying something obvious)
<LocutusOfBorg> I know they apply, because the codebase is the same as debian
<ahasenack> yep :)
<LocutusOfBorg> but you might want to add some autopkgtests or similar
<LocutusOfBorg> feel free but prior add them in debian or artful
<ahasenack> ok
<LocutusOfBorg> oh
<ahasenack> LocutusOfBorg: hi again, could you do the same for https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/krb5/+bug/1688310 ? Accept the zesty nomination?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1688310 in krb5 (Ubuntu) "KDC/kadmind may fail to start on IPv4-only systems" [Undecided,In progress]
<xnox> mdeslaur, also you have duplicate linuxi packages in that graph. are extra kernel source packages, result in extra security / cve work?
<mdeslaur> xnox: the graphs haven't been updating in a while to properly handle new package names, etc.
<mdeslaur> s/updating/updated/
<LocutusOfBorg> ahasenack, .
 * LocutusOfBorg leaves
<nacc> rbalint: xnox: if either of you could take a look (not immediately urgent) at LP: #1576341, i'm particularly interested in feedback on the lvm2-lvmetad.socket and systemd-journal-auditd.socket issues (c#20, 1.c, 1.d)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1576341 in systemd (Ubuntu) "systemd in degraded state on startup in LXD containers" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1576341
<gpiccoli> Hi, have a question about networking discovery/naming on Ubuntu installer, hope this is the right place to ask. Sorry to bother!
<gpiccoli> How the naming of interfaces works on installer? I noticed it's not using predictable naming, but after the installation completes and we reboot, we have interfaces names as enP#p#s#f#
<gpiccoli> During the installer, interfaces are like ethX
<gpiccoli> Why? I'm *not* using "net.ifnames=0" on installer, nor providing any other boot parameter
<gpiccoli> Also, didn't find any reasonable udev rules that would force ethX naming...
<gpiccoli> i'm confused hehehe
<gpiccoli> Any guidance will be much appreciated
<nacc> slangasek: does this seem sufficient (I just tested it in a LXD dist-upgrade and it did let dlm become removable and dlm-controld was correctly installed) for dropping this delta in src:dlm? Will also allow for dropping some delta in a few other srcpkgs: http://paste.ubuntu.com/24512380/
<slangasek> nacc: LGTM
<nacc> slangasek: thanks
<jtaylor> urg gcc 7 has a new gfortran soversion
<jtaylor> this will cause massive problems again when gfortran.so.3 disappears from distros ...
<gpiccoli> interesting fact is that on 17.04 it uses predictable namings
<juliank> xnox: apt 1.4.2 is out. the locking got a bit cleaned up, and now works on non-bash shells. Will sync that tomorrow :)
<juliank> I'm about ready to open the 1.5 APT branch for artful :D
<gsilvapt> Hello everyone. Apologies if this is not the correct place to ask for help but I could use some guidance to fix this bug: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/shadow/+bug/1427807
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1427807 in shadow (Ubuntu) "usermod's man refers to --*-sub-uids but accepts only --*-subuids" [Medium,Triaged]
<gsilvapt> I'm not sure what source code I should be downloading because the LP repository forwards to a really old version of the package and the available tars are not bzr repositories
<nacc> gsilvapt: `pull-lp-source <srcpkgname>`
<nacc> gsilvapt: so in this case, `pull-lp-source shadow`
<nacc> gsilvapt: it will pull the development release by default
<nacc> gsilvapt: you will first need to see if it's fixed in artful
<gsilvapt> thanks for the reply, nacc. I've checked the code available and it hasn't yet
<gsilvapt> I'll give those commands a try
<nacc> gsilvapt: ok, then you'll need to fix artful first :)
<nacc> !sru | gsilvapt: per this
<ubottu> gsilvapt: per this: Stable Release Update information is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
<nacc> gsilvapt: now, i'm guessing the manpages are unmodified by ubuntu, so really it's probably an upstream bug?
<gsilvapt> it is, nacc
<gsilvapt> that launchpad command doesn't fetch the upstream?
<nacc> gsilvapt: right, so fix it upstream, probably first, then get it fixed in debian and the next merge will pick it up
<nacc> gsilvapt: honestly, though, manpage updates probably don't satisfy the SRU rules
<gsilvapt> nacc, I believe we can patch for artful, right?
<gsilvapt> nacc, can you give me any guide on how to patch this the right way? There are so many and I don't want to mess this up :p
<nacc> gsilvapt: sure, but i think it's better to fix upstream and in debian
<gsilvapt> I'll have a look to see if I can find the upstream source code and/or the package in debian
<nacc> gsilvapt: `pull-debian-source shadow` will give you the debian source package
<nacc> gsilvapt: and to answer your earlier question, `pull-lp-source` is for pulling ubuntu source packages, not upstream
<nacc> slangasek: i think i'm uploading the last change (src:kopanocore, a new pkg) that has any revdep on src:php7.0 not from src:php7.0 itself (src:jsusfx does technically, but it's php7.0-cli | php-cli, so is fine to leave as a sync). After kopanocore goes through, i think php7.0 is removable
<nacc> well, i know i'm uploading :) imo it's the last change
<gsilvapt> Thanks for the explanation, nacc. I'll give that a try now. Preparing a patch file for Debian is different than in Ubuntu, isn't it?
<nacc> gsilvapt: no, not really
<nacc> gsilvapt: and more than likely, the same patch might apply to both in this case
<gsilvapt> Oh, right, I need to patch both
<gsilvapt> Should I use quilt for this, nacc ? That package has a couple of guides to help me out
<nacc> gsilvapt: yes, because you are changing the upstream source, you'll end up generating a quilt patch
<sarnold> the 'native' package format these days uses quilt internally to manage debian/patches/ -- many packages still use e.g. cdbs or patchless packages, but enough use quilt these days that it's probably in your package too
<nacc> gsilvapt: after doing a `pull-debian-source shadow`, you can make changes to the source and then run `dpkg-source --commit`
<gsilvapt> thanks, guys.
<gsilvapt> Although I read so many things about this first, I don't know why but contributing is actually super intimidating...
<gsilvapt> Oh well, lets give this small fix a try :)
<nacc> gsilvapt: we're working making it less so (with git)
<nacc> gsilvapt: but not quite there yet
<gsilvapt> I don't think bzr is an issue. The problem is more what to edit and getting used to all these terms. upstream, debian package vs ubuntu package, check for versions, don't edit previous versions unless it can go by the SRU rules, etc
<nacc> gsilvapt: yes, our tooling basically (eventually) will let you just give us the diff
<nacc> gsilvapt: and we'll figure out what to do with it
<nacc> gsilvapt: honestly, for a bug like this one, i'd focus on getting it fixed upstream
<nacc> gsilvapt: clearly no one really cares that much -- or upstream would have fixed it by now :)
<nacc> gsilvapt: and if fixed in upstream, debian will automatically get it eventually, and so will ubuntu
<gsilvapt> Yes, that's why this is *the* bug to start. Nobody has yet fixed this and this bug is 2 years old.
<gsilvapt> I'll download the debian package, make the patch there and the Ubuntu will get their next code from debian. That's correct, right?
<nacc> gsilvapt: when someone merges it
<gsilvapt> yes, I can propose that too after fixing, isn't that so?
<nacc> gsilvapt: not bzr or git merge, an ubuntu merge
<nacc> gsilvapt: where changes in ubuntu get replayed (sort of) on the latest verion in debian
<gsilvapt> Yes, I got that. But can I propose that merge or not really?
<nacc> gsilvapt: it looks to be a complicated merge
<nacc> gsilvapt: you can try, but i don't think something as core as shadow is a good one to start with
<gsilvapt> well, I'm starting to think it actually is not a good one
<gsilvapt> Just seemed so because it is related with man pages
<nacc> gsilvapt: you don't need to do a merge to do a bugfix
<nacc> gsilvapt: they are separate tasks
<gsilvapt> Ok, lets review the steps then. I pulled the debian package and I can package this via quilt. Then should I do the same for the Ubuntu package or propose a merge?
<nacc> gsilvapt: for this case, i would do the same for the ubuntu package (or if you want you can just do ubuntu)
<nacc> gsilvapt: my point earlier was simply that it's 'better' to ensure a fix is in debian too
<gsilvapt> I'm sorry if these are dumb questions but I'm not a developer (aspiring one) when all this source, upstream, ubuntu vs debian packages is confusing. Also, since the shadow package is not a LP repository, it is not helping getting comfortable through the guides
<nacc> gsilvapt: the guides are all old
<nacc> gsilvapt: just use pull-lp-source and pull-debian-source
<gsilvapt> Ok, I understood your point now. I'll try to follow http://packaging.ubuntu.com/html/patches-to-packages.html and see where that will take me.
<nacc> as i said, it's easier than the guide states
<nacc> literally: 1) pull-{debian,lp}-source shadow
<nacc> 2) edit some upstream files
<nacc> 3) dpkg-source --commit
<gsilvapt> The 4th step should be report it in the LP bug page, shouldn't it?
<nacc> that will prompt for a patch name and then will open the patch in the editor, add dep3 headers (see dep3 page in debian or on that page you just linked to) and then save the file
<nacc> 4) dep3changelog debian/patches/<patchname as given in 3)
<nacc> 5) dch --edit
<nacc> insert the appropriate release and ensure changelog is what you want
<nacc> 6) dpkg-buildpackage -S -nc -d
<nacc> This will result in a .dsc file in the parent directory (..)
<gsilvapt> Hum, you made it sound super simple :|
<nacc> debdiff <old dsc file> <new dsc file> > yourpath.debdiff
<nacc> *yourpatch
<nacc> attach debdiff to bug
<nacc> debdiff creation should be 7) and attach should be 8)
<nacc> gsilvapt: alternatively, just fix it upstream and leave the bug open
<nacc> gsilvapt: again, not a high priority bug clearly :)
<gsilvapt> nacc, could you explain what would I have to do if I wanted to just fix it upstream?
<nacc> gsilvapt: ideally you either build locally or use a PPA to test your change does hwat you want as well
<gsilvapt> Just to make sense of the differences
<nacc> gsilvapt: upstream has no packages
<nacc> gsilvapt: find where the upstream maintains the code and send them a patch
<nacc> gsilvapt: http://pkg-shadow.alioth.debian.org/getinvolved.php
<nacc> apparently
<gsilvapt> uff, the upstream package is something else even. Jeezzz xD
<nacc> actually https://alioth.debian.org/plugins/scmgit/cgi-bin/gitweb.cgi?p=pkg-shadow/shadow.git;a=summary
<nacc> gsilvapt: upstream is not a package
<gsilvapt> s/package/source
<nacc> gsilvapt: upstream is ... upstream, like a github project (or any other place that can generate source code)
<nacc> gsilvapt: yes, of course it is
<nacc> gsilvapt: how would it not be something else?
<gsilvapt> this should be linked in the LP bug page
<nacc> what should be linked?
<gsilvapt> the upstream url
<nacc> gsilvapt: why?
<nacc> gsilvapt: i don't know what you're referring to
<gsilvapt> to ease the process of contributing. It is always recommended you fix the upstream source in these cases but I couldn't find any reference to where the upstream source was
<nacc> gsilvapt: as i said, we are working on making it easier
<nacc> gsilvapt: fixing upstream is an open source thing
<nacc> gsilvapt: you can find it by looking at where debian/ubuntu get the upstream orig tarball from (debian/watch)
<gsilvapt> I know, I'm not pointing fingers! I'm just new around here and I'm trying to get my grips. Sorry for bothering you this much with a super single bug
<sarnold> sometimes there -is- no upstream
<sarnold> distros are the upstreams
<nacc> yes, that's true
<sarnold> this happened to rxvt, jasper, etc
<sarnold> probably hundreds more
<sarnold> well we package lots, maybe thousands more? :) heh
<gsilvapt> So, okay... Lets recap. So I have the upstream source, I download that using git, make the changes, commit it to the repository and eventually the Ubuntu guys will fetch the upstream and package updated and fix this bug. Is that correct?
<nacc> gsilvapt: well you won't ahve commit rights
<gsilvapt> Oh, right. Forgot to check that first :D
<rbalint> the info on shadow is confusing
<rbalint> upstream is https://github.com/shadow-maint/shadow
<nacc> rbalint: oh interesting
<gsilvapt> I can fork and make a PR, or nobody checks that?
<rbalint> i'm the new maintainer but could not fix all the docs yet:-(
<sarnold> you can probably fork and make a pr and probably hallyn will see it
<sarnold> oh :)
<sarnold> or rbalint :)
<nacc> rbalint: fun! yeah, i was trawling from debian PTS
<rbalint> gsilvapt: upstream is pretty active :-)
<gsilvapt> Ah, the maintainer is here! :D
<nacc> gsilvapt: it depends on the particular project, but in this case that's fine
<gsilvapt> Ok, so help me out rbalint, please. To do a small fix in the man pages, should I fork and PR the change to the upstream?
<gsilvapt> yea, I guess so nacc
<sarnold> gsilvapt: .. and if you fix it upstream and stop there, it'll eventually make its way into new ubuntu releases in the future, maybe a year or two down the road. if you want it fixed in released releases then that'll take more steps
<rbalint> gsilvapt: i would recommend pushing to upstream directly
<gsilvapt> that would be clone, right?
<rbalint> gsilvapt: yes
<gsilvapt> sarnold, well... In this case, I might do Ubuntu later on just to test and check the entire process.
<gsilvapt> Okay, lets try to do that. Thank you very much for all your help, nacc, rbalint and sarnold
<nacc> gsilvapt: yw
<rbalint> gsilvapt: yw :-)
<gsilvapt> Crap, this has been fixed upstream
<sarnold> hooray!
<gsilvapt> so much trouble for nothing
<gsilvapt> LOL xD
<sarnold> then you get to figure out the patch and do the cherrypick :D
<hallyn> eh hm?
<sarnold> hey hallyn :)
<gsilvapt> what's that, sarnold?
<sarnold> hallyn: gsilvapt wanted to fix a typo in shadow manpages
<hallyn> please do :)  PR against shadow-maint/shadow, i'll accept, and the debian maintainer will pull it in
<sarnold> hallyn: apparently it's already fixed upstream, hehe
<hallyn> oh
<gsilvapt> hallyn, I went to so much trouble to find out it has been fixed xD
<sarnold> gsilvapt: so, find the log for the file in question, take a look for the patch that fixes it, and isolate that one
 * hallyn steps back
<gsilvapt> according to git log -p, this has been fixed in 2016. I need to find this entry in the changelog, right?
<sarnold> the git commit is probably more useful; find that change
<gsilvapt> I have the commit
<gsilvapt> This change is not in the changelog
<gsilvapt> Ah, wait, the entry came later
<gsilvapt> Well, I have both now, sarnold
<hallyn> gsilvapt: that's my fault.  i was not keeping the changelog uptodate
<hallyn> bc, frankly, changelogs are redundant when there's a git log, but ....  ppl want it
<sarnold> hehe i knowthe feeling bug something to filter out the not-user-visible changes from user-visible changes is welcome
<sarnold> and higher-level overview of changes is nice too
<sarnold> forests vs trees
<sarnold> but damn they make merging patches difficult when they include changelog changes
<gsilvapt> what's next, sarnold?
<sarnold> not 'i hate my life difficult' but 'meh gotta deal with it difficult' :)
<sarnold> gsilvapt: well... i'm about to push shadow updates out the door today, so you might find it easier to wait until i do so before grabbing the ubuntu packages. hehe.
<gsilvapt> Ok, I'll wait for you then :)
<gsilvapt> Should I write something in the LP bug page in the meantime?
<sarnold> good idea, package udates always happen faster with bugs
<gsilvapt> Okay, I will say this has been fixed in commit XXX in the upstream source.
<gsilvapt> Yey, did something tonight aside from looking at code trees and tutorials on how to contribute.
<gsilvapt> Thanks guys!
<hallyn> +1  thank you
<nacc> gsilvapt: so when you looked earlier, were you looking only at d/changelog to see if it was fixed, or did you look in the source pkg in artful?
<gsilvapt> I checked source pkg in artful before and it hasn't been fixed
<gsilvapt> I then checked upstream and there it has been
<nacc> gsilvapt: ah ok
<gsilvapt> Did I mess something up?
#ubuntu-devel 2017-05-05
<nacc> gsilvapt: no, i just was wondering
 * gsilvapt *breathers in reliefP
<bdrung_work> hi bdmurray. i converted apport to git and pushed my changes to https://code.launchpad.net/~bdrung/apport/+git/retrace-debian
<Unit193> mdeslaur: Howdy!  Just saw the Irssi merge, quick note:  use_ssl = "yes"  is the "old" name, it's  use_tls = "yes"  now (also seems you didn't keep/add  tls_verify = "yes")
<Unit193> (I'll close LP 1685561)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1685561 in irssi (Ubuntu) "Please merge irssi-1.0.2-1 (main) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1685561
<rbasak> jbicha: did you get "Import problem - Spanish (es) - gnome-settings-daemon in Ubuntu Zesty" or was that email misdirected only to me?
<jbicha> rbasak: wow, no I didn't get that email this time
<jbicha> the Spanish translation contributor has a bug in his translation tool where it messes up the header sometimes, I'm pushing the fix upstream now
<rbasak> jbicha: thanks. I think that's a shortcoming in Launchpad for SRUs. It's not a problem; I just wanted to pass it on. Do you need the actual email? It has more details.
<rbasak> (well it might be a problem that you care about but there's little I can do about it now :-)
<jbicha> no, I already corrected the header in GNOME
<rbasak> OK thanks
<jbicha> someone that's really bored could go look up all the Spanish translations across GNOME to make sure it's fixed :|
<doko> ricotz: cmake hangs in -proposed ...
<infinity> juliank: Weekly reminder that test-apt-download-progress still sucks.
<infinity> doko: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/rhash/+bug/1688298
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1688298 in rhash (Ubuntu) "[MIR] rhash" [Undecided,New]
<Unit193> rhash?  Huh.
<xnox> juergh, nice =)
<mdeslaur> Unit193: oh! I didn't notice that at all...did you fix it?
<ricotz> doko, why? missing "cmake-modules" rebuilds?
<infinity> ricotz: No, the rhash MIR, see above.
<ricotz> oh, I see :(
<ricotz> LocutusOfBorg, thanks ^
<juliank> infinity: Oh true, it's failing an awful lot of times on armhf since after 1.4.1. new machines?
<infinity> juliank: Nope.
<juliank> But it's kind of odd that it consistently fails since a week, and worked the first 3 weeks of april
<infinity> juliank: But it always sucked, maybe we just had a lucky run for a bi?
<infinity> s/bi/bit/
<juliank> Well, probably
<infinity> juliank: http://autopkgtest.ubuntu.com/packages/apt/zesty/armhf paints a more erratic picture.
<juliank> I gotta add some sleep() in our testing web server
<juliank> (If I rate limit the web server, apt will eventually show some download progress...)
<juliank> damn it. stupid close tab key binding
<infinity> juliank: It comes with an appropriate /part message.
<infinity> 05:18 -!- juliank [vf03RlAbiP@ubuntu/member/juliank] has left #ubuntu-devel ["that was probably by accident"]
<LocutusOfBorg> ricotz, yw :)
<infinity> juliank: Custom job, or does your IRC client just know you that well?
<juliank> infinity: Yep, I set this up at some point, because I really only leave channels by accident usually
<infinity> Heh.
<infinity> juliank: As for the oddness of the pattern, it probably relates to load.
<juliank> Yes. The more load, the better basically
<infinity> juliank: Since armhf autopkgtests are lxc containers on a shared host.
<infinity> juliank: I was assuming the inverse, given the pattern.  The last week, the infra has been running flat out.
<juliank> hmm
<juliank> maybe
<juliank> The problem is that we are trying to rate limit transfers in the client, which does not really work if the server sends all data basically at once.
<infinity> So send it one byte at a time? :)
<juliank> That's why slowing down the server instead should work and give us reliable progress detection
<infinity> But yes, under high load, I would expect the "server" process to still be near instant, while the client would be more likely to hitch up, as it's much more complex code.
<infinity> Given that your server is probably a few lines of "open a socket and dump stuff in it".
<juliank> The server is even advanced enough to send a directory listing!
<infinity> A dynamic one, or did you just screenscrape a mod_dir index and send that html? :P
<mdeslaur> Unit193: ah crud, I didn't see your merge bug either...sorry :(
<infinity> (And if it's the former, dear god, why not the latter?)
<mdeslaur> Unit193: I'll fix the tls option
<juliank> infinity: It actually builds a real html directory listing
<infinity> juliank: Those are hours you'll never get back.
<juliank> It also handles basic auth
<infinity> I don't think you quite grasp the concept of mocking. ;)
<Laney> Release it separately
<Laney> I'll use it
<infinity> Laney: Well, by all accounts, it's the fastest httpd on the planet, which is why the testsuite fails.
<infinity> Laney: So, yeah, we should all switch.
<juliank> infinity: DonKult wrote it in 2013+, and it's about 1000 lines long
<juliank> And it uses C++ threads, apparently
<juliank> fancy
<juliank> https://anonscm.debian.org/cgit/apt/apt.git/tree/test/interactive-helper/aptwebserver.cc
<juliank> Also supports chunked encoding, partial requests, if-range and some other weird crap
<juliank> At least far enough for the tests to work...
<juergh> xnox, ?
<xnox> juergh, unping.
<xnox> juergh, nice about the apt releases =)
<xnox> juliank, ^^^^^
<xnox> juergh, i suck at irc thing this morning
<xnox> however it is afternoon already
<juliank> xnox: I wonder if I want to set up new 1.3 and 1.2 for zesty and xenial today (in case somebody wants to play during the weekend?)
<juliank> It's about 2 minute cherry-picking per release.
<juliank> s/zesty/yakkety/
 * juliank confuses releases all the time
<xnox> juliank, yes please. =)
<infinity> juliank: If only they were in alphabetical order or something.
<juliank> infinity: Well, it always happens at the start of a new cycle, although this one was very weird.
<cyphermox> cjwatson: do you recall why grub2's linuxefi_require_shim.patch was required?
<cyphermox> right now that's breaking (to some degree) EFI boot if secure boot is enabled by shim validation is disabled, because in that case shim doesn't install its protocol... but I'm not sure what the details were that needed to be fleshed out before this patch was dropped.
<cyphermox> (and that was 4 years ago :)
<cjwatson> cyphermox: I think it may have been because of discussions of signing GRUB directly
<cjwatson> cyphermox: I've found the relevant swathe of IRC log but it would take a while to parse it - can I just hand it over to you and let you work it out from the information I had available to me at the time? :)
<cjwatson> cyphermox: this was from before shim was packaged, I think
<cjwatson> cyphermox: https://pastebin.canonical.com/187573/ (internal pastebin because it's an unedited dump from an irc.c.c channel, but feel free to use your judgement on information gained from that since I doubt much of it remains private)
<cyphermox> sure, no problem
<cyphermox> that would make sense, in any case, as if you sign grub directly then you don't want it to bypass signature validation just because shim's proto doesn't exist
<cjwatson> yeah, I don't remember if there's a way to tell whether we've been entered via shim
<juliank> xnox: uploaded :)
<infinity> cyphermox: Keep in mind that while discussing EFI boot protocols involving shim/grub/linux, that arm64 doesn't involve shim in the process.  So, booting grub directly is a thing we do support, though maybe not on x86.
<cyphermox> I don't think that would break arm64 in any way
<juliank> Or more detailed: apt 1.2.22, 1.3.7, and 1.4.2~17.04.1 are now in the xenial-proposed, yakkety-proposed, and zesty-proposed queues :)
<infinity> cyphermox: Sure, not familiar at all with the code or the deeper discussion, just popped in my head due to the mention of direct grub booting versus chaining from shim.
<cyphermox> cjwatson: I was thinking, in that care you'd see you have no shim protocol, and thus install your own; but I asked about why the shim protocol wasn't installed when shim's validation is disabled, seems like it stil lshould be.
<cyphermox> infinity: yes, definitely something to look at. in this case they basically never have shim though, so the net change would be to go through kernel EFI code that might not have been called previously.
<cyphermox> basically, they're most likely, right now, getting in the case that sforshee was seeing before, where there is no shim protocol installed in EFI, so grub doesn't start the kernel as an EFI binary
<juliank> The binutils SRU for trusty also aged enough now, and is good to go in (to both -updates and -security)
<cyphermox> ... because ..._secure_validate() fails, so we exit the linuxefi module and use linux instead.
<infinity> juliank: Except we don't release SRUs on Fridays.
<juliank> Ah, yes, it's Friday.
<juliank> I forget week days :)
<infinity> juliank: Ahh, student life.
<infinity> tjaalton: Is xserver-xorg Recommending xserver-xorg-legacy intentional or an accident?
<tjaalton> infinity: intentional, useful for ubuntu-gnome on virtualbox, for instance
<tjaalton> it was added for stretch
<jbicha> to be more specific, I don't think Ubuntu needs that for VBox but Debian does
<infinity> tjaalton: It's already in the ubuntu-gnome-desktop task anyway.  Was just curious to see it getting pulled in for !gnome when it's not been there since before xenial.
<tjaalton> jbicha: right, the metapackage pulls it already
<jbicha> it was only added to gnome-shell/ubuntu-gnome-desktop as a workaround since fixing the nvidia drivers was taking a very long time
<jbicha> https://github.com/tseliot/nvidia-graphics-drivers/pull/10
<tjaalton> it does no harm anyway
<tseliot> jbicha: I included your change in my local branch, BTW. I'm going to upload it with 375.66
<infinity> jbicha: You could have spoofed me as the committer on that prime commit. :P
<jbicha> next time :)
<jbicha> (I believe Ubuntu has basic vbox support drivers included in default install but Debian does not)
<juliank> Oh, if anyone wants the apt SRUs *now*, they're in the PPA: https://launchpad.net/~deity/+archive/ubuntu/apt
<LocutusOfBorg> jbicha, while this is true, that legacy package is still the "safer" option, at least until vbox people upstream their patches into the official drivers
<LocutusOfBorg> IIRC I got some issues also on non-gnome environments
<juliank> I'm trying to setup a daily recipe for lp:apt (git), but it always sets up one for lp:apt (bzr)
<juliank> That's insane.
<LocutusOfBorg> juliank, same issue :(
<LocutusOfBorg> https://code.launchpad.net/~costamagnagianfranco/+recipe/boinc-upstream-daily
<cjwatson> juliank,LocutusOfBorg: workaround in https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/1623924
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1623924 in Launchpad itself "Source package recipes prefer Bazaar when lp:$foo alias is VCS-ambiguous" [High,Triaged]
<juliank> LocutusOfBorg: I now used lp:~deity/apt/+git/apt instead of lp:apt, that might work
<juliank> cjwatson: Emptying the bazaar link seems like a good idea, too, thanks. I wanted to delete the bzr import, but it did not let me "1 branch share..."
<cjwatson> Yeah, sharing is awkward.
<juliank> I'm currently thinking about creating a new PPA where I just continously build all branches for their respective releases.
<juliank> So you get daily 1.2 builds for xenial, daily 1.3 for yakkety, and daily 1.4 for zesty and artful
<LocutusOfBorg> how do I create a new git repo? I need to merge the debian directory into the upstream git
<mapreri> LocutusOfBorg: RTFM => https://help.launchpad.net/Code/Git
<mapreri> â¥
<juliank> a very friendly manual
<mapreri> yeah, it's so nice and colourful!
<LocutusOfBorg> thanks!
<LocutusOfBorg> I was expecting a "create new git repo" on the code page
<nacc> coreycb: ping
<coreycb> nacc: hi
<nacc> re: LP: #1605278, i've got maas buy-in to merge with django 1.11 (which is an LTS) and is in experimental. Would you like a PPA to test against for openstack?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1605278 in python-django (Ubuntu Artful) "Merge python-django 1:1.11-1 from Debian unstable" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1605278
<coreycb> nacc: yes that would be good if we could get some testing with that before it gets uploaded.  thanks.
<nacc> coreycb: ok, i'll update the ppa in the bug shortly
<nacc> coreycb: thanks for the quick feedback!
<nacc> xnox: does runit in 16.04 need a patch to not call it's postinst's /sbin/start runsvdir? someone in #ubuntu just got https://pastebin.com/raw/MyaBbBcL (ignore the ppa for couchdb)
<nacc> xnox: it seems like that should never be used on 16.04, right? but if it's there (which i think it might be by default for the session manager on desktop?) then it will fail to start the upstart service and error out?
<xnox> nacc, are they upgrading, and have they rebooted?
<nacc> xnox: they said it was a fresh install
<nacc> xnox: i was going to spin up a vm to see if i can reproduce
<xnox> nacc, well..... checkout my last upload, maybe i need to SRU that to xenial.
<nacc> xnox: yep, that's why i asked you specifically :)
<xnox> nacc, what other packages do they have installed?
<hjd> nacc xnox: That sounds like bug 1448164...
<ubottu> bug 1448164 in runit (Ubuntu) "runit cannot be installed (Unable to connect to Upstart: Failed to connect to socket /com/ubuntu/upstart: Connection refused)" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1448164
<xnox> 232 affected people, that is hot
<nacc> hjd: ack it does appear to be
<sarnold> I thought I'd seen runit installed on a surprising number of machines; git-all dragging it in suddenly it makes sense
<nacc> hjd: but honestly, afaict, isn't the sru-able portion just the postinst bits?
<nacc> afaict, we don't want to talk to upstart in the postinst on 16.04, even if upstart's bins are present
<hjd> nacc: I have to admit I don't know. I asked in one of the comments if it was SRU-able because I wasn't really sure what fixed it or how deep it went.
<hjd> *exactly what
<greenbard> does anybody know whether UBUNTU_MENUPROXY=0 does not work anymore with Ubuntu 17.04 on purpose?
<s1aden> greenbard: if it doesn't do what you expect.  Please file a bug
<greenbard> It doesn't do anything on a cleanly installed Ubuntu 17.04. I just wanted to ask, since I do not use Ubuntu myself and have a bug report myself ;-)
<sarnold> :)
<greenbard> Thanks
<Unit193> mdeslaur: Thanks, and no problem.  In theory the option should be backwards compatible, but perhaps a bit pointless without -verify.
<mdeslaur> Unit193: thanks for pointing it out, I uploaded it
<Unit193> Of course, thanks for the upload.
<nacc> hjd: ack, i am not sure either
#ubuntu-devel 2017-05-06
<gsilvapt> hello all
<gsilvapt> sarnold, did you managed to push the updates downstream in the shadow package?
<chatter29> hey guys
<chatter29> allah is doing
<chatter29> sun is not doing allah is doing
<chatter29> to accept Islam say that i bear witness that there is no deity worthy of worship except Allah and Muhammad peace be upon him is his slave and messenger
<gsilvapt> !spam chatter29
<gsilvapt> nacc, you around for help?
<gsilvapt> No longer needed, apparently
<gsilvapt> hggdh, you around?
<hggdh> gsilvapt: yes
#ubuntu-devel 2017-05-07
<sarnold> gsilvapt: my shadow update is finished; i didn't touch the manpages
<hjd> I'm looking at https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/apertium/+publishinghistory. It seems like the package has synced the latest version from Debian, but it was removed from -proposed before it has been added to -release. Anyone see why this might happen and whether it is expected?
<ginggs> hjd: i seem to recall it was unable to migrate from -proposed for a long time, I ~r68466-1 didn't migrate to testing in Debian either, but I cannot see why
<hjd> Hm.. I assumed that might be due to the freeze for the upcoming Debian release, but I don't know.
<hjd> In unrelated news, what's the recommended way to do a package merge (for packages with newer version in Debian, and an Ubuntu delta) these days?
<hjd> I think the last time I did one, I used bzr. :)
<infinity> hjd: That disappearing package is a bug.
<infinity> hjd: Fixed.
<adamFromSomewher> Hi there. What's the propoer channel for ubuntu phone/phablet development?
<juliank> xnox: There'll be another round of APT uploads. Timers are being stopped/restarted in all packages (regression from 1.2) - See https://bugs.debian.org/862001 for details. Also thinking about moving (copying?) network-online dependency to the service, see #debian-systemd
<ubottu> Debian bug 862001 in libapt-pkg5.0 "libapt-pkg5.0: Failed to try-restart apt-daily-upgrade.timer: Unit apt-daily-upgrade.timer not found." [Serious,Open]
<juliank> (Just for the record)
<rbasak> popey: o/ could you mark armangharibi3@gmail.com as "always moderate" on ubuntu-devel-discuss@ please? See spam (perhaps by accident).
<rbasak> or balloons: ^
<gsilvapt> sarnold, and what is next regarding that bug? You said I should wait for your update before doing anything else :)
#ubuntu-devel 2018-04-30
<danialbehzadi> Hi. Where should I report an upstream bug in gnome gtk-3 buttons?
<cpaelzer> pitti: hiho
<cpaelzer> pitti: cockpit dep8 tests on artful look rather broken atm
<cpaelzer> I came to find by looking at an libvirt SRU
<cpaelzer> do you know if these are these all just transitional errors?
<cpaelzer> ppc had a login issue it had in the past as well
<cpaelzer> and both x86 have a utf decoding issue
<cpaelzer> both types of issue happened in the tests past quite a lot according to the log
<cpaelzer> I wonder if we shall give up on these in artful and mask those arches as well for artful?
<tseliot> bdmurray: hey, I fixed the code in this merge request. Can you have a look at it, please? https://code.launchpad.net/~albertomilone/software-properties/software-properties/+merge/343882
<bdmurray> tseliot: By look at it do you mean approve the MP or merge it and upload it?
<tseliot> bdmurray: approve it, since you set it to "needs fixing", and it's no longer the case now. As for the upload, I think we need an SRU for that
<bdmurray> tseliot: approved, thanks for checking with me.
<tseliot> bdmurray: thanks!
<teward> has anyone successfully set up an sbuild environment on 18.04?  Getting perl piuparts errors...
<teward> nevermind, solved.  Something didn't get installed.
<d33tah> hi! is there a channel where i could discuss a xorg regression with 18.04?
<nacc> d33tah: #ubuntu?
<d33tah> nacc: too crowded, got lost in the chatter
<nacc> d33tah: be more patient? file a bug?
<d33tah> nacc: trying option #2
<nacc> d33tah: ok
<jpleau> I'm trying to backport qjackctl to a ppa (from debian sid). All my dev environment is on my debian sid install, I have jessie,stretch,xenial,bionic schroots setup with sbuild there. I tried chroot'ing into my sid install and do my backport with sbuild, but it's failing at signing the .dsc / .changes, any idea what it could be? : https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/HWBYS57ZHS/
<nacc> jpleau: does that dsc exist?
<jpleau> nacc: I posted the wrong error. What I get after running dpkg-buildpackage -S -sa: qjackctl_0.5.0-1~ubuntu18.04.dsc: clear-sign failed: Inappropriate ioctl for device
<jpleau> the one I posted before was after I tried export GPG_TTY=$(tty) (from googling)
<nacc> jpleau: ah ok
<nacc> jpleau: i *think* that's gpg asking you for your passphrase and not being able to talk to you
<jpleau> nacc: makes sense. Maybe I can build the source package, unsigned, move them over to my ubuntu install, sign the .dsc and .changes manually. (trying to avoid installing debhelper and the whole thing on my work desktop)
<nacc> jpleau: right, you can do that for sure (pass -uc -us)
<jpleau> that worked, made it easier to copy $CHROOT/usr/bin/debsign to my host system, I couldn't get the signed files correct. thanks nacc
<nacc> jpleau: np
#ubuntu-devel 2018-05-01
<sarnold> bdmurray: 1764801 has a HookError_ubuntu.txt that shows another python3 transition problem :(
<bdmurray> sarnold: I've a fix for that staged
<sarnold> bdmurray: cool! thanks :)
<sarnold> doko: is this one for you? 1767493
<pitti> cpaelzer: cockpit autopkgtests> that was still an older version 151; the newer ones in artful-backports and bionic have this fixed
<pitti> cpaelzer: so ignoring those seems fine, probably easiest at this point IMHO
<pitti> (alternative would be to SRU the current autopkgtest)
<cpaelzer> hi pitti
<cpaelzer> yeah I tihnk at this point adding the hint is the best option
<cpaelzer> there is already a newer version in the backports, I doubt it is reasonable for the remaining few months to SRU the same
<cpaelzer> let me propose a britney hint for you to ack
<cpaelzer> pitti: we already did this a while back https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~paelzer/britney/hints-ubuntu-artful-cockpit/revision/2647
<cpaelzer> I didn't realize back then that other arches were similarly busted
<cpaelzer> I'm actually really happy with the newer version so far and appreciate that it essentially runs a rather huge test set
<cpaelzer> pitti: for now https://code.launchpad.net/~paelzer/britney/hints-ubuntu-artful-cockpitfails/+merge/344874
<cpaelzer> I'm not sure if you are still SRU team to push, but at least approving would be good
<willcooke_> Hi all, could someone who is a moderator of the ubuntu-devel mailing list approve my reply re: data gathering from yesterday?
<seb128> cjwatson, ^
<cjwatson> willcooke_,seb128: done
<seb128> cjwatson, thx
<seb128> does anyone know where I could download a bionic daily iso from early april or a beta2 one?
<willcooke_> thanks cjwatson
<seb128> seems like willcooke_ has an old iso around
<slangasek> seb128: if you needed it, we could probably find the beta2 images still laying around on nusakan
<seb128> slangasek, thanks, I should be fine with what willcooke_ found but I let you know if it turns out to not be what I was looking for
<seb128> slangasek, the iso from willcooke was a kylin one ... do you think you can find the beta2 one on nusakan?
<slangasek> seb128: I actually have ubuntu desktop beta2 locally, if you want to run by Ballsaal B with a USB stick
<seb128> dear launchpad please stop timeouting, thx
<mdeslaur> tkamppeter: I plan on backporting qpdf 8.0.2 to our stable releases as a security update, and rebuilding cups-filters. Is there anything majorly wrong with qpdf 8.0.2?
<xnox> kees, re:watchdog modules, it sounds like you may want to meet up with ogasawara & slangasek to discuss https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/systemd/+bug/1767172
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1767172 in linux (Ubuntu) "Regression: /etc/modules checked against blacklist or it's really hard to load blacklisted watchdog modules when one really wants one" [Undecided,Incomplete]
<sarnold> willcooke: can you take a quick look at 1767918 and assign / redirect as needed? thanks
<kees> xnox: yeah, dunno. I've already asked the kernel team to not blacklist my particular module (and sent a patch)
<kees> it's an unpleasant state, but I think it's just the rpi3 issue that makes a difference.
<kees> and that's a problem with the watchdog blacklist from the kernel being too broad.
<kees> but systemd processing /etc/modules IS a regression...
<xnox> kees, note e.g. loading watchdog module alone is probably not good enough, as one should configure /etc/systemd/system.conf, since "By default RuntimeWatchdogSec= defaults to 0 (off)"
<xnox> kees, do you use systemd as watchdog, or something else?
 * xnox wishes /etc/modules was not supported at all anymore =)
<sarnold> why?
<xnox> sarnold, because one should use modules-load.d(5) obviously
<sarnold> ah okay
<xnox> kees, ShutdownWatchdogSec= defaults to 10min... i'm confused how shutdown/reboot works on rasperipi. I guess there are things happening to handle the reboot syscall, as i hope it doesn't rely on a 10min timeout to shutdown/reboot =) that would be silly.
<kees> xnox: I don't use the watchdog as a watchdog. it's required on rpi3 to perform shutdown and reboot.
<kees> xnox: /etc/modules is loaded vi modules-load.d (see the symlink in /etc/modules-load.d
<kees> xnox: the rpi3 watchdog driver exposes the "poke the power state" interface to the shutdown/reboot code. loading it doesn't start a watchdog timer.
<xnox> kees, ack.
#ubuntu-devel 2018-05-02
<pitti> cpaelzer: indeed I can't merge it, but I did approve it
<cpaelzer> thanks pitti!
<pitti> cpaelzer: no worries; alles gut bei Dir?
<cpaelzer> pitti: yep alles fein
<cpaelzer> pitti: I updated the ongoing SRU so the sru-team can merge it when looking at the case
<seb128> SRU team, bug #1767784 is a (small) regression from a recent pulseaudio SRU in xenial, we just uploaded a revert of the change. Could that one be reviewed/approved? also do you think we should block the current -updates version meanwhile?
<ubottu> bug 1767784 in pulseaudio (Ubuntu) "[regression] output device not recognized anymore since update 1:8.0-0ubuntu3.9" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1767784
<slangasek> seb128: generally I would remove / rollback the version in -updates rather than block
<slangasek> seb128: but if this is a straight revert I would happily push this through to -updates probably before it matters
<seb128> k, well 0ubuntu10 just uploaded is a simple revert
<seb128> so if the SRU team can drive that through that works for us
<slangasek> seb128: is it a revert of everything that was in 3.9, or is it a partial revert?
<slangasek> confirmed that it's a straight revert
<seb128> 3.9 was a small patch added, it's a full revert
<seb128> 8 to 10 diff is only the 2 changelog entries
<seb128> debdiff
<slangasek> accepted
<seb128> thx
<slangasek> takes ~25 minutes to publish
<slangasek> to build
<slangasek> seb128: so not worth doing any other revert in the meantime if this is only a "minor" regression.  if you want to ping me or another SRU team member once it's built, we can get it released then
<seb128> slangasek, sounds good to me, thx
<seb128> shrug, launchpad is again in timeout mode :/
<seb128>  (Error ID: OOPS-2891732d718aa57cf6c88379052a5adf)
<_UsUrPeR_> good morning!
<_UsUrPeR_> I'm having trouble getting iptables -L -t nat functioning. Error is as follows: can't initialize iptables table `nat'
<_UsUrPeR_> I spun up my own kernel off the ubuntu unstable, and I feel like I included iptables in the modules
<_UsUrPeR_> but I think I'm missing something, and now QEMU isn't working right
<_UsUrPeR_> what's the module I'm looking for?
<xnox> tjaalton, "yes, it's a silly ppa but one that has builders for all archs :)" it has become entirely self-service to tick enable _all_ arches on any ppa, so you can enable all the arches you need, where you need them.
<tjaalton> xnox: where did I say that?-)
<xnox> tjaalton, i'm catching up on my bug mail. "something rather bind lpad freeipa so-path multiarch something blah"
<tjaalton> anyway, I wasn't aware it's self-service now
<tjaalton> oh that
<xnox> tjaalton, yeah, all arches are in openstack now, and virtualised in a similar way, hence it has become free for all.
<tjaalton> cool
<seb128> slangasek, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pulseaudio/1:8.0-0ubuntu3.10 has the builds as "(Accepted)" still, does it mean they are still not published?
<slangasek> seb128: yes, that means they had been accepted but not published; which is not actually a blocker for us doing the launchpad-side releasing of the SRU; but anyway I imagine they're published by this point ;)
<seb128> slangasek, yeah, usually it takes half an hour max, they have been like that for almost 2 hours now
<seb128> weird
<slangasek> ah
<slangasek> seb128: should someone smoketest the binaries before I release the SRU?
<seb128> slangasek, let me do at least one test install/reboot with them, I've a xenial partition on my laptop
<slangasek> ok
<seb128> slangasek, works fine here, good to go for us
<slangasek> seb128: k, button pushed; if publishing is not happening, escalate to LP?
<seb128> slangasek, k, thanks
<slangasek> seb128: oops I'm wrong, the binaries do have to be published before I copy
<infinity> slangasek: Yes they do.  And psql has had a few sads in this publisher run.
<slangasek> infinity: time to switch to mongo
<infinity> *choke*
<xnox> coreycb, hi, neutron-vpnaas ships some "weird" paths. Is it normal to ship something in both /etc and /usr/etc? E.g.
<xnox> etc/neutron/rootwrap.d/vpnaas.filters
<xnox> usr/etc/neutron/rootwrap.d/vpnaas.filters
<xnox> slangasek, there are only two package pairs with conflicts. Pondering to upload fixes for them, and either enable usrmerge or advertise usrmerge.
<xnox> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/neutron-vpnaas/+bug/1768539
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1768539 in safe-rm (Ubuntu) "Conflicts between / and /usr" [High,New]
<xnox> slangasek, this obviously excludes things that are generated at runtime via maintainer scripts.
<slangasek> xnox: needs an ongoing audit report as well
<xnox> slangasek, tracked in debian as well, and fixed many places, and once activated dpkg prevents conflicts from being installed via a feature flag stamp file.
<xnox> slangasek, given lack of lintian lab or piuparts, how do you want this to be tracked?
 * xnox *cough* rbalint *cough*
<xnox> yet another archive-report that we need to look at?
<coreycb> xnox: hi
<coreycb> xnox: i can fix that up
<xnox> coreycb, awesome! thanks.
<coreycb> xnox: ok to just fix in dev release since it's wishlist?
<xnox> coreycb, yeap, that's more than enough to just do cosmic
<coreycb> xnox: ack
<nacc> slangasek: just a quick fyi, because i don't know off the top of my head, we wouldn't expect pulseaudio to be installed as as snap on ubuntu desktop 18.04, right (particularly if they upgraded from 17.10)?
<jbicha> nacc: are you asking about the default install or what?
<nacc> jbicha: i think this was a default install, yeah
<nacc> not 100% sure, tbh
<nacc> jbicha: they said they were on 17.10 but then upgraded to 18.04. On 18.04 no sound, they had the pulseaudio snap installed (dunno how or why). I had them remove the snap and install the deb and they had sound.
<jbicha> there are only 4 snaps installed by default in a 18.04 desktop: gnome-calculator, -characters, -logs, and -system-monitor
<nacc> jbicha: excellent, that's all i need to know. And I assume snaps can't satisfy deb dependencies still?
<nacc> jbicha: they ahd the ubuntu-desktop metapackage installed but *not* pulseaudio deb
<jbicha> yeah there is no apt-to-snap upgrading being done yet (those 4 apps will be .deb's if you upgraded unless you manually switched them to snaps)
<jbicha> and ubuntu-desktop depends on pulseaudioâ¦
<nacc> jbicha: yeah, the latter is why i was super confused
<slangasek> xnox: if dpkg prevents conflicts from being installed via a feature flag, then I'm less concerned about ongoing audits; I had not heard about this
#ubuntu-devel 2018-05-03
<coderanger> Hey there, what's the best way to get in contact with the Python maintainer team for Ubuntu? Because the Python 3 packages for 18.04 are all kinds of broken right now.
<sarnold> coderanger: best is to file a bug report with ubuntu-bug <packagename>
<coderanger> No, I need to talk to them directly.
<coderanger> This isn't a bug, it's a structural failing somehow
<coderanger> After Barry left, I'm not sure who took over
<coderanger> It looks like someone decided to move distutils and venv into their own packages, which is fine, but then they never reworked things so python3.6 or one of the related stdlib packages depends on them.
<coderanger> doko: Looks like the package files say you're it :)
<coderanger> doko: Hopefully this was just an oversight and we can get it cleaned up easily.
<coderanger> (3AM there, rats)
<nacc> coderanger: we fixed most of them, pre-release, iirc
<coderanger> nacc: Yeah, looks like distutils was fixed upstream right around feature freeze, so might have just been missed :)
<tarzeau> we use ubuntu 18.04 with d-i, and 5 out of 10 installations hanged at the "update-grub" screen 66%, and alt-f4 showed os-prober. kill -9 `ps
<tarzeau> |grep mounted` made it go further. any ideas?
<tarzeau> i have images i can post by imessage (or email) if anyone cares
<tkamppeter> mdeslaur, I do not know anything wrong with QPDF 8.0.2, please go ahead and do the update.
<sergiusens> doko: where can I get a chroot/lxd image to test the adt failure?
<doko> sergiusens: I don't think we already have cosmic images
<doko> infinity, Odd_Bloke: ^^^
<Odd_Bloke> We do not yet have cosmic images.
<infinity> sergiusens: Boot bionic image, 'sed -i -e "s/bionic/cosmic/g" /etc/apt/sources.list && apt-get update && apt-get dist-upgrade', congrats, it's cosmic.
<infinity> sergiusens: But yes, no lxd images yet, AFAIK (not my department).
<sergiusens> wfm
<Laney> sergiusens: you can pass RELEASE=cosmic to autopkgtest-build-lxd to build a bionic image and then dist-upgrade it
<Laney> that's what we did to get the actual ones that are running
<infinity> Or that.
<infinity> Laney: Your suggestion offended him right off IRC.
<Laney> ENOBRAINSPC
<sergiusens> thanks Laney, will look at that next
<nacc> coderanger: ah could be
<infinity> coderanger: distutils not being installed by default is a feature, not a bug.  If there are still things in the archive that (incorectly) depend on it at runtime, please file bugs.  If you have things locally that do, either fix them or install it, IMO.
<infinity> tarzeau: Filing a bug on debian-installer with reproduction info would be helpful.  Assuming you're using our d-i build and not a custom one.
<coderanger> infinity: That 1) breaks how Python is supposed to work and 2) implies that people mostly install Python apps via apt rather than the python-native system. Distutils is an important part of the stdlib and I'm not really sure why it would be specifically carved out. There are exceptions in place for stuff like Tk where it's in the stdlib but installing it requires a lot of support libs, but distutils is pure python soooooo
<cjwatson> fg
<cjwatson> oops
<coderanger> infinity: There is also the pythonX-minimal packages for people that want to opt-in to a reduced view of the world :)
<infinity> coderanger: By the "python-native system", do you mean setuptools (which depends on distutils) or pip (which recommends setuptools), or something else?
<coderanger> pip, which is not always installed via apt
<coderanger> Basically it's weird that `apt install python3` doesn't result in a fully-functional python environment (modulo that "fully-functional" is a very loaded term and as mentioned there have been good reasons in the past to punt some small bits of the stdlib out of the default package set)
<jbicha> coderanger: totally off topic, but did you see https://xkcd.com/1987/ yet?
<coderanger> Especially since this is a change from the debian version of the same packages
<infinity> coderanger: Anyhow, the change seemed sensible to me, but feel free to file a bug and/or yell at doko.  Same changes landed in Debian first, so perhaps best to argue the case with him in the Debian BTS.
<coderanger> jbicha: I can neither confirm nor deny ... O:-)
<coderanger> infinity: Yep, put some in last night :)
<infinity> coderanger: It's not a change from Debian, Debian's got the same setup in unstable.
<coderanger> Ahh okay, I wasn't sure how to read that part of the changelog.
<infinity> jbicha: See, I'm more inclined to say "I prefer to use a non-packaged package manager, but have it magically work with the packaged language runtime" is https://xkcd.com/1172/
<infinity> But I also despise all things python, especially the way its ecosystem is managed, so I'll bow out from the conversation. :P
<coderanger> infinity: It's the continual tension between distro packages as the most available option and the conflict of distro vs. upstream bundling policies :)
<infinity> coderanger: Sure, I get that language ecosystems and distro packaging will always be at odds, but it seems daft to use a non-packaged pip when a packaged one is designed to work with the packaged runtime, IMO.
<coderanger> infinity: My specific case is I maintain the Chef ecosystem support for Python so I want to install pip from source to get the same behavior across all OSes.
<coderanger> Tooling dislikes special cases :D
<infinity> (Though I also understand that, in the past, the packaged pip and venv didn't really work right on Debian, and maybe that's led to all sorts of curious practices)
<coderanger> There also appears to be an odd mismatch where python3-dev depends on distutils, but python3.6-dev does not
<infinity> coderanger: That's definitely by design.  pythonX.X-dev is meant for C-linking (ie: building modules), while python3-dev/python-dev are meant for building extensions, hence the deps on all supported python versions and distutils and dh-python.
<infinity> coderanger: Not voicing an opinion on if that was "right", but that's how it's been pretty much forever.
<coderanger> Fair :)
<coderanger> The whole design of the debian python layout is definitely showing its age
<coderanger> Some day Python 2 will die and we can all have the nice things, right?
 * coderanger looks around nervously
<infinity> 2020.
<infinity> Not sure that'll suddenly make python3 nice, but it can't make it worse.
<coderanger> 2025 because LTS :)
<coderanger> Though I'm sure RHEL 6 will find a way to make everything terrible forever, as its job.
<infinity> RHEL5 is still making things terrible forever, nevermind 6.
<tarzeau> infinity: we're using yours, however i have no idea how to reproduce, we'll try to figure out (maybe the old 16.04 install on the disk causes it), however it only happened on about 50% of the machines
<tarzeau> i'll try to find the launchpad bugs page for d-i ubuntu 18.04 and post the console screenshots there
<doko> infinity, just fyi, there are no differences between Debian and Ubuntu
<tarzeau> mhm, we use the preseeded d-i with stretch and xenial, no problems. but since 18.04 half of my installs hang as described
<tarzeau> we do have lvm and btrfs/xfs/ext4 (and i'm not sure if the problem is with update-grub or os-prober)
<tarzeau> if it helps anyone i can post the photos more early and try to debug later
<tarzeau> but it seems, we're the only ones with that problem, otherwise i would have found some other reports on the interweb
<infinity> tarzeau: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/debian-installer/+filebug
<infinity> tarzeau: If you're using a preseed, attaching that (with any private info scrubbed) would be super helpful.
<infinity> tarzeau: Also, /var/log/syslog from one of the systems at the point where it stalls.
<infinity> tarzeau: (Or grab it later from /var/log/installer once you kill and finish)
<shiftplusone> Would anyone (chrisccoulson?) happen to know how where the orig tarballs for chromium come from?
<shiftplusone> ah, https://commondatastorage.googleapis.com/chromium-browser-official/chromium-$(ORIG_VERSION).tar.xz actually works
<cyphermox> tarzeau: any chance it's on a really really really huge disk?
<cyphermox> tarzeau: I'd be very interested in seeing a bug report with the details
<sarnold> bdmurray: 1768866 is the second bug I've seen with "PythonDetails: /root/Error: command ['which', 'python'] failed"
<sarnold> bdmurray: is /root/Error really being constructed? it feels a bity funny. I can't say it's wrong, but it doesn't feel right :)
<sarnold> bdmurray: is this working as intended? or is something else at play?
<bdmurray> sarnold: They probably don't have python installed so the python details bit is poorly constructed
<sarnold> bdmurray: thanks, that's probably fine then :)
#ubuntu-devel 2018-05-04
<tarzeau> infinity: yes it's comnpletely non-interactive, and we're thinking adding "nousb" to have the hole closed, someone can get a root shell during install time
<tarzeau> cyphermox: 250 GB i wouldn't call that huge, when you get disks with 12 TB these days
<tarzeau> cyphermox: also happened to me yesterday with a 2 TB disk machine
<tarzeau> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/debian-installer/+bug/1769044
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1769044 in debian-installer (Ubuntu) "Ubunut 18.04 d-i preseeded installer hangs at 66 % of update-grub..." [Undecided,New]
<tarzeau> we have another 150 ubuntu computers to re-install with 18.04 so, plenty of time and occassions to test and debug
<seb128> xnox, slangasek, could be have a foundation-eyes-review on https://code.launchpad.net/~azzar1/ubiquity/+git/ubiquity/+merge/345056 ? I'm unsure why the code is the way it is today but the change seems to work/fixes the xerror bug we have been seeing
<seb128> could we*
<slangasek> seb128: the mechanics of it look correct.  uid handling makes my skin itch generally.  I don't think we'll know whether there are adverse knock-on effects without trying and testing.
<seb128> right, we have been there a couple of times with recent ubiquity fixes :/
<seb128> do we build daily 18.04 images still? like if we land that change in a SRU, do we get isos to test or do we need to manually kick builds in some way?
<slangasek> seb128: yes, daily build 18.04 images are configured
<seb128> great, where do we find them?
<seb128> I guess http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/ is cosmic?
<slangasek> usual path: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/bionic/daily-live/
<seb128> thx :)
<slangasek> (s/usual path/usual schema/)
<seb128> slangasek, so, that ubiquity change do you know who would have a look? Colin bounced back to you guys, xnox sort of denied/bounced back to Laney ... at this point I think we are just going to merge/land it unless you have someone who wants to have another look before we do?
<seb128> Laney, andyrock, didrocks, ^
<didrocks> my concerns/questions were addressed, so approving my side, but a finale review from Foundation is needed as the code is sketchy ;)
<slangasek> seb128: sorry, my response was intended to be a complete review - JFDI and we'll have to test to make sure it DTRT
<slangasek> seb128: and I don't have commit access on the ubiquity VCS
<seb128> slangasek, sounds good to me, thanks
<seb128> we have people who have commit access in our team so we can land it
<cyphermox> wasn't there a fix needed in cairo?
<seb128> cyphermox, the fix in cairo makes us handle the Xerror when called from the wrong context, but it might have a performance impact and we want to wait for upstream review to land it
<seb128> either of the fix should be enough to make the installer stop crashing
<cyphermox> mmkay
<cyphermox> I'm a bit surprised that permission changes would have scaling break.
<seb128> it's a race in the drop/restore of privilege in fact
<seb128> hidpi is just slower because more to render
<cyphermox> mmkay
<seb128> and we end up having rendering done from the wrong uid/context
<cyphermox> well, the patch looks good
<seb128> thx for review!
<seb128> I guess we land/SRU it and test the dailies
<cyphermox> yeah
<cyphermox> that's fun, now we have a git and a bzr branch
<cyphermox> Laney: you did the move to git?
<Laney> nein
<cyphermox> k
<Laney> one D. Ledkov
<seb128> cyphermox, https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2018-May/040295.html
<Laney> also he mailed devel about it
<Laney> yeah that one
<didrocks> bdmurray: hey, once you get some times for reviewing: https://code.launchpad.net/~didrocks/ubuntu-release-upgrader/add_telemetry/+merge/345088
<ricotz> chrisccoulson, hi, did you look further into backporting python3.5 to trusty?
<tkamppeter> kenvandine, I have attached the needed debdiffs to bug 934291, for both Cosmic and Bionic, it is the solution from comment #53 but with the user/group name lpadmin replaced by cups-pk-helper as you suggested.
<ubottu> bug 934291 in cups-pk-helper (Ubuntu) "Deleting or stopping print jobs does not work" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/934291
<kenvandine> tkamppeter, thx!
<chrisccoulson> ricotz, yes, but the build crashes
<ricotz> chrisccoulson, so this is the latest state? https://launchpad.net/~chrisccoulson/+archive/ubuntu/ppa/+sourcepub/9011366/+listing-archive-extra
<ricotz> I am thinking about to take a look
<chrisccoulson> ricotz, feel free. This is the memory issue that causes the build to fail https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/cB8hp7z6VZ/
<ricotz> chrisccoulson, ok
<ricotz> chrisccoulson, regarding the packaging, I asked some time ago whether to transition from bzr to git, I will start to investigate this and try to convert the existing repos
<jesse1010> does anyone know what kind of printer I need to print a software box for physical sales?
<jesse1010> like this
<jesse1010> http://www.foldedcolor.com/software-box.html
<sarnold> I think consumer-level printers would be called "large format"
<sarnold> but to get nice sharp scores / creases for folding, you might just want to talk to a local printshop
<jesse1010> i want a printer for my home office to do the printing
<jesse1010> if its not too expensive
<nacc> jesse1010: seems rather offtopic for the channel :)
#ubuntu-devel 2018-05-05
<TheEagerPadawan> ubuntu my ubuntu desktop from 17.10 to 18.04 and apprently it broke the cryptsetup
<TheEagerPadawan> thought intially that it had to do with the azerty to qwerty change
<TheEagerPadawan> however that is not the case
<TheEagerPadawan> after some failed attempts i get dropped in a bussybox
<TheEagerPadawan> how can i *censored* this situation
<acheronuk> tjaalton: we have in proposed libwayland-dev Breaks: libegl1-mesa-dev (<< 18.0.0-1), but mesa in cosmic is still 18.0.0~rc5-1ubuntu1
<acheronuk> = broken build deps on some things
<tjaalton> acheronuk: yep, I'll merge 18.0.2
<tjaalton> on monday ;)
<tjaalton> some kilkenny helped me speed it up a bit
<acheronuk> :D
#ubuntu-devel 2018-05-06
<TheEagerPadawan> still having the same issues as yesterday - posted the whole story here to not overly spam the channel - https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/4wwXmYmJ9t/
<gratuxri> hello together, by testing new Bionic Beaver I see, that for example fai and live-build packages are very very old. Can someone point me to discussion why this packages are not up to date with debian packages?
<tjaalton> live-build seems practically forked at this point, and no-one that uses fai bothered to merge it in time?
<gratuxri> You mean that packages were build from launchpad? What about importing debian packages to ubuntu? Maybe be I don't understand full process of releasing and importing packages from debian. Can you point me to this workflow?
<tjaalton> live-build: version 3.0~a57-1ubuntu34
<tjaalton> means that it has ubuntu changes on top of 3.0~a57-1
<tjaalton> 34 uploads in fact
<tjaalton> and fai has a diff too, apt-get changelog fai-client would show that
<tjaalton> packages need to be merged by a person so that the changes are not lost
<gratuxri> OK, I can look at it
<tjaalton> too late for bionic
<gratuxri> Yes, but maybe for next release ;)
<tjaalton> sure
<tjaalton> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/Merging has more info on that
<gratuxri> Thank you
<jbicha> doko: could you just remove the elementary source package? Debian bug 895221
<ubottu> Debian bug 895221 in ftp.debian.org "RM: elementary -- ROM; integrated into efl" [Normal,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/895221
<cousteau> Who do I have to annoy to get a package upgraded?  Arduino is OLD
<jbicha> cousteau: it's being worked on in Debian. See Debian bug 780706
<ubottu> Debian bug 780706 in arduino "arduino 1.6.8 available" [Wishlist,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/780706
<cousteau> So just wait for it to FINALLY make it into Debian, and then wait for it being inherited by Ubuntu?
<cousteau> Also that bug mentions an Arduino 1.5.x I've never seen in Ubuntu
<rbasak> cousteau: you realise this package is maintained by volunteers, right?
<cousteau> Also the last mail in that list makes me think that list is a bit abandoned
<cousteau> rbasak: point being?  I can annoy the volunteers too :)
<rbasak> I think they deserve a little more respect.
<cousteau> (I've contributed to Arduino before and I wouldn't even mind contributing to Ubuntu if I could; if your point is that I'm not in a position to demand things I understand that)
<cousteau> I didn't disrespect them
<cousteau> I just stated that the version in the repos is near 5 years old, and then asked if I just had to wait for it making it into Debian (which has been an ongoing thing for ages so I'm a bit pessimistic about its latency)
<cousteau> (also, I hope you realize "annoy" wasn't literal)
<cousteau> OK, so sorry if I sounded rude, it wasn't my intention.
<cousteau> So, am I to expect arduino-1.8.x eventually making it into the Ubuntu repos in the near future?  Because that would be nice.
<rbasak> Some will need to prepare the new packaging. Usually that happens in Debian and Ubuntu will autosync once the new development release opens.
<rbasak> It can be done in Ubuntu ahead of Debian, but that would still need someone to prepare the new packaging and that person might as well coordinate with the work going on in Debian.
<cousteau> I see, so no point in doing this ahead of Debian; it would be redundant
<rbasak> You could still help the Debian maintainers out
<cousteau> (unless there were reasons to think Debian was taking an excessively long time)
<cousteau> OK, thanks!
<cousteau> Now I know who I have to annoy :) (metaphorically)
<cousteau> And sorry again if I sounded too impatient; it's just that Arduino has been outdated on Ubuntu for a long time and was really hoping for that to get fixed soon.
<cousteau> Gotta go.  Thanks, rbasak and jbicha!
#ubuntu-devel 2019-04-29
<LocutusOfBorg> mwhudson, you mean the sphinx theme failure?
<LocutusOfBorg> "sudo apt-get install python-sphinx-rtd-theme"
<LocutusOfBorg> :)
<LocutusOfBorg> mwhudson, interestingly, the bionic package builds docs with "sphinx-build" while the eoan package does: python3 -m sphinx
<LocutusOfBorg> so, the python3-sphinx-rtd-theme is probably useless, and python-sphinx-rtd-theme is instead
<mitya57> LocutusOfBorg: sphinx-build is managed by alternatives, so both python3-sphinx and python-sphinx provide it.
<mitya57> And upstream sphinx dropped Python 2 support so I highly recommend using only the python3 versions, especially for the new code.
<LocutusOfBorg> mitya57, we are talking about bionic, cosmic
<LocutusOfBorg> cosmic and later are already using the python3 version
<LocutusOfBorg> but probably mwhudson is not referring to that issue...
<xnox> rbasak, for the server team review ;-) https://code.launchpad.net/~xnox/ubuntu-seeds/+git/ubuntu-seeds/+merge/366639
<rbasak> Thanks :)
<juliank> hmm, did we drop support for apt-btrfs-snapshot in grub recently? IIRC, I got boot entries for snapshots previously, but don't seem to get any anymore in disco/eoan
<juliank> But I might misremember, I don't know
<mitya57> LocutusOfBorg: ok. I had a general comment :)
<LocutusOfBorg> mwhudson, the problem is this SRU from xnox https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/openssl/+bug/1797386
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1797386 in ruby2.5 (Ubuntu Bionic) "[SRU] OpenSSL 1.1.1 to 18.04 LTS" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<LocutusOfBorg> looks like the new openssl makes some test fail on it
<LocutusOfBorg> do you want me to subscribe you to the bug report?
<xnox> LocutusOfBorg, problem for what?
<xnox> python-tornado?
<LocutusOfBorg> yes, python-tornado builds with -release pocket and doesn't build with -proposed, and the diffs are ssl-related...
<LocutusOfBorg> I added something on the bug report
<xnox> i'll look into that, thanks.
<LocutusOfBorg> I added also some upstream commits that might be fixing the issue, I don't think the python-tornado in bionic/cosmic fails in testsuite
<LocutusOfBorg> we might have consider to sru the latest version to bionic, not sure, I don't want to enable proposed pocket on my laptop right now, so I can't really test it more
<LocutusOfBorg> also updated https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/python-tornado/+bug/1801184
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1801184 in python-tornado (Ubuntu Cosmic) "tests time out on arm64 and armhf" [Undecided,Incomplete]
<LocutusOfBorg> mwhudson, I wasn't aware of the bug report before
<LocutusOfBorg> I'm also committing your change in debian
<juliank> Hmm, I just had an idea: We currently ship the mirror lists in python-apt-common, how about we let launchpad generate those lists and ship them as part of the archive, referenced from the release file? Then we don't have to update them, just ship an apt.conf snippet to download them? (should be easy right, cjwatson wgrant)?
<juliank> Though I guess we need to ship a seed on the image
<cjwatson> Impractical for stable series where we don't regenerate the release pocket's InRelease routinely
<juliank> that's true
<cjwatson> So I'm not particularly keen
<juliank> Maybe a link to a mirror list
<juliank> (which must be https)
<juliank> Ah but then we need more than a snippet
<juliank> I guess just movign the list to distro-ifno-data is probably the best idea
<xnox> rbasak, doko - ported etckeeper to python3 and forwarded all patches to debian, and uploading to ubuntu.
<sahid> xnox: hi, it looks like we have a timeout issue here: http://autopkgtest.ubuntu.com/packages/h/heat-dashboard/cosmic/armhf
<sahid> anychance you have a look?
<sahid> coreycb: ^
<coreycb> xnox: sahid: test test is timing out. is there any way we can increase the timeout?
<xnox> sahid, i have no idea.... why ping me? =)
<coreycb> xnox: that was my suggestion
<xnox> coreycb, you can make a merge proposal to add to the big_packages... but if it didn't timeout before as a small one, it's really a bandaid now.
<coreycb> xnox: it has a history of it
<xnox> coreycb, we had io problems, and did scale workers down, and retry things..... but i was not involved in that. it was more of a vorlon / Laney thing
<coreycb> xnox: sahid: ok maybe big_packages is the way forward for us
<xnox> coreycb, make a merge proposal similar to this -> https://git.launchpad.net/autopkgtest-cloud/commit/?id=0e3fbc0cb6844e2ce20b129d6262aaacf4c22065
<xnox> against lp:autopkgtest-cloud
<xnox> but probably like for all arches / all configs.
<coreycb> xnox: great thanks, will do
<Laney> io problems were on the controller, nothing to do with the compute hosts[4~
<juliank> xnox: that etckeeper ftbfs
<xnox> hahahhahahahha
<juliank> xnox: rm: cannot remove 'debian/etckeeper/usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/bzrlib/plugins/etckeeper/__init__.pyc': No such file or directory
<juliank> gotta remove the rm I guess
<juliank> But I'm not sure how you can make sure upgrades work correctly
<xnox> juliank, nah, add back bzr build-dep
<juliank> YOu need the transitional bzr -> breezy first, and then Breaks for the old bzr?
<xnox> cause it means that bzr plugin was not built.
<xnox> want to support both at the moment
<juliank> ah you got both?
<xnox> yeap
<xnox> juliank, all built now. And also, since the default is git now, python deps are not strictly required and are optional. And would be there, if bzr/brz are installed, so dropped those too.
<xnox> now i need to quickly port heartbeat, wait for desktop team to upgrade dejadup/duplicity, and bash swift upstream.
<juliank> xnox: nice
<ddstreet> is there any tooling to more easily run autopkgtest.u.c tests from ppas?  or is the only way to hand-edit urls to submit/check tests?
<xnox> ddstreet, not really. but i do create ppa's on bileto.ubuntu.com and upload into those
<xnox> ddstreet, as those have automatic autopkgtests runners setup against them.
<Wafficus> hi there qhestion regarding Ubuntu ISO tester. How do i modify it to instead test Lubuntu's iso?
<vorlon> coreycb: why is the heat-dashboard autopkgtest so much slower in cosmic than in disco?  should we not instead sru the fixes for that?
<vorlon> coreycb: i.e. 1.4.0-0ubuntu3 became a lot faster than 1.4.0-0ubuntu1
<vorlon> (did it only get faster because of dropping python2 support? :P)
<vorlon> jbicha: hi, what's the point of carrying the gparted delta for LP: #1737248 to disable xhost root, while we're also still linking against gtk2?  "discouraging other upstreams from following this pattern" doesn't sound like a very strong argument
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1737248 in gparted (Debian) "Do not use --enable-xhost-root" [Unknown,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1737248
<coreycb> vorlon: all true statements, i think we can attribute at least half of the performance increase to dropping py2.
<ddstreet> xnox ah ok, guess all the cool kids have bileto access, not me though :(
<sarnold> a user in #debian found something funny with our locales and it looks like a bug to me. I'm not sure where to file a bug report: ubuntu http://paste.ubuntu.com/p/bC22mnH8c2/ vs a fedora 29 lxd guest http://paste.ubuntu.com/p/P2Y88sfTW8/
<infinity> sarnold: Which release?  No can reproduce.
<sarnold> infinity: my ubuntu paste is from bionic
<ginggs> vorlon: i responded in LP: #1713615 - from here, it seems like switching to github is the right thing to do
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1713615 in msttcorefonts (Ubuntu) "ttf-mscorefonts-installer fails because Redirection from https to http is forbidden" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1713615
<vorlon> ginggs: yeah, +1. do you want to upload that change?
<infinity> sarnold: Mmkay.  Well, it's fine on disco/eoan at least.
<ginggs> vorlon: thanks, i'll upload and look at SRUs, and try to convince Debian to switch too
<infinity> sarnold: Ahh, I knew it seemed familiar.  This is https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/glibc/+bug/1774857
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1774857 in glibc (Ubuntu) "sort doesn't sort and uniq loses data for many non-Latin scripts on UTF-8 locales" [Undecided,New]
<infinity> sarnold: If you have an overwhelming urge to bisect, pointers welcome. :P
<infinity> (Though, I fear it'll end up fixed in a 2MB commit labelled "update from Unicode 9 to Unicode 10" or similar)
<sarnold> infinity: yiiikes. :/ thanks
<infinity> sarnold: And sure enough, there's such a commit (though I was off by one version)
<infinity> b11643c21c5c9d67a69c8ae952e5231ce002e7f1
<infinity>     Bug 23308: Update to Unicode 11.0.0
<ubottu> bug 23308 in xorg (Ubuntu) "xserver dies when switching vts on login" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/23308
<infinity> 10040 lines.
<infinity> Hopefully that's not the "fix". :P
<infinity> But it probably is.
<infinity> Since it comes with new translit tables, which are likely at fault here.
<juliank> ginggs, vorlon Can't we just distribute the .exe in the installer .deb?
<juliank> ah no, may not be included in your own product
<juliank> but the github mirror distributing it is fine
<ginggs> juliank: do you think it's still worth filing a bug in apt?
<juliank> ginggs: there is no bug in apt
<juliank> ginggs: it does not allow https->http redir on purpose
<juliank> The problem here is the sourceforge mirror doing the redirect
<ginggs> juliank: right, but redirecting to http for the failedmirror page happens after something has already gone wrong
<infinity> It's irksome that there isn't a Canonical microsoft.com URL to get this stuff from.  It feels so sketchy downloading it from random people who downloaded it in the past.
<infinity> s/Canonical/canonical/
<infinity> Stupid fingers can't type that without the upper case C.
<juliank> ginggs: yeah, well, their mirror system probably does garbage collection on mirrors or something?
<juliank> so it redirects to mirrorfailure which then should trigger a resync of the file from master or something
<infinity> On the other hand, a larger issue here seems to be people complaining that the package failing to download is breaking upgrades?  Is that actually true?
<ginggs> juliank: i'm pretty sure the file is there, i can download it successfully and then immediately after i can get a failure
<ginggs> infinity: yes
<infinity> Cause the whole point of Steve moving all this to update-manager downloader jobs was to prevent broken downloads from breaking upgrades.
<infinity> So, what's gone wrong there?
<juliank> ginggs: it is there on _some_ mirrors
<infinity> It's meant to just silently skip over the breakage and try again later, and pop up update-manager nag windows telling you that it failed.
<infinity> vorlon: Any thoughts on that part of the bug?
<juliank> ah so
<juliank> I guess it fails on partial requests
<ginggs> juliank: i'm pretty sure i'm getting intermittent failures from the same mirror
<infinity> Like, the entire delta seems pointless if it's not doing its job.
<juliank> so I'm downloading https://newcontinuum.dl.sourceforge.net/project/corefonts/cabextract/0.6/cabextract-0.6-1.src.rpm
<juliank> look here: https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/CM2dCdRsSJ/
<ginggs> infinity: it's a bit silly that it downloads the fonts again during an upgrade, but I don't know if that's avoidable
<juliank> If we send the host a Range and a If-Range it fails
<juliank> The mirror should respond with a 206 Partial Content or a 200 OK
<juliank> This only happens if we already have the full file downloaded
<juliank> for a partial file, it's fine
<juliank> e.g. that file is 94927 bytes large
<infinity> ginggs, vorlon: Also note (maybe not a big deal, I might be rare?) that changing the download host from dl.sourceforge.net to something else will break people who had to whitelist sf.net in their proxies. :/
<juliank> Range: bytes=94927- fails
<juliank> Sourceforge should fix their servers really
<juliank> but as a workaround we could always delete the last byte if we have a partial file
<juliank> FWIW, the correct server response would be
<juliank> HTTP/1.1 416 Requested Range Not Satisfiable
<juliank> Content-Range: bytes */94927
<infinity> juliank: Huh, yep.  Chopping off the last byte on the existing file lets it be happy.  So, is your hypothesis that all the failed downloads are people who already have the files locally?
<juliank> I'd think so
<infinity> Or have we just found one of the many ways sf mirrors suck? :P
<juliank> as a bonus point, we could shave of like 4 bytes and then check on resumption that they match what we expect
<infinity> We store the md5sums locally that we expect for all the .exe files.  Why would we be downloading at all if we already have them?
<infinity> sha256, rather.
<infinity> But sums.
<juliank> Well, I don't know
<juliank> I'll just email sf ops
<infinity> def download_file(uri, sha256_hashsum):
<infinity>     """Download a URI and checks the given hashsum using apt-helper
<infinity>     Returns: path to the downloaded file or None
<infinity>     """
<infinity>     download_dir = os.path.join(STAMPDIR, "partial")
<infinity>     dest_file = os.path.join(download_dir, os.path.basename(uri))
<infinity>     ret = subprocess.call(
<infinity>         ["/usr/lib/apt/apt-helper",
<infinity>          "download-file", uri, dest_file, "SHA256:" + sha256_hashsum])
<infinity>     if ret != 0:
<infinity>         if os.path.exists(dest_file):
<infinity>             os.remove(dest_file)
<infinity>         return None
<infinity>     return dest_file
<infinity> Yeah, so.  That's silly.
<infinity> We have a path, we have a sha256, and we don't check the state of the path before we start.
<infinity> That could check the sum, skip if it's what's expected, unlink if not.
<sarnold> unlink would prevent resume
<sarnold> though if we're having this discussion because resume doesn't work, then maybe we should unlink :)
<infinity> So does data corruption.  http isn't rsync.
<infinity> http range requests against broken serves (or with locally broken data) won't produce a magically fixed file.
<infinity> s/serves/servers/
<infinity> Either way, the part where we don't check the local file *at all* before redownloading seems silly.
<infinity> Maybe someone assumed apt-helper does such a thing, which it very much doesn't appear to.
<sarnold> heh, I would indeed have made that assumption :)
<infinity> juliank: sf.net server suckage aside, I'm somewhat inclined to blame the update-notifier implementation here for being silly.
<juliank> infinity: will check
<infinity> juliank: If nothing else, we're pointlessly downloading files we already have.
<juliank> infinity: Yeah, well, it should pass the file size to apt-helper
<infinity> We don't appear to know the sizes, just the sums.
<infinity> Which is silly too, cause if we had the file to make the sums, we could have obtained the sizes. :P
<infinity> But the implementation didn't call for that.
<infinity> Thankfully, I think the consumers of this API can be counted on two fingers, so changing it to be more robust is doable.
<infinity> (msttcorefonts, adobe-flash-plugin, not sure if anything else uses it)
<juliank> hmm it does not seem to help
<juliank> we still perform a 302 even if we have the size
<juliank> * a GET
<juliank> Anyhow, I pinged sourceforge
<infinity> juliank: I'm a bit surprised too, mind you, that passing the sha256 to apt-helper doesn't mean "hash the local file first and don't download if it matches".
<juliank> odd, yes
<juliank> there is code for that, but probably only for .deb
<infinity> But yeah, as for the update-notifier implementation, while I can see angry people on 28.8k modems (all 2 of them) complaining if we break resume, I'd suggest http resume is more likely to be harmful than helpful in this sort of situation, and it'd be easier to just "check local, if sum match, no download, else unlink and download".
<juliank> infinity: Oh, partial is fine, as long as it does not match the full file size
<infinity> Given that the sort of connections where resume really matters are also the sort of connections where half a file is likely to have a few bad bytes...
<juliank> infinity: Just truncate the file to st.st_size -1
<infinity> juliank: Sure, partial is fine, if it's fine.  But if it's not? :)
<juliank> But yeah, I guess re-download is fine too
<infinity> Oh, I guess if we do an actual partial resume, then it hits full size, then we sum, we'll unlink and try again later.
<juliank> let's do that I guess
 * juliank grabs code
<infinity> So maybe that's okay.
<infinity> I dunno.  I can count on one hand the number of times I've bothered to http resume anything smaller than an ISO in the last few years.
<infinity> I realise that my connection is MUCH better than the world average, but I also don't think things are as dire for our users as we might think.
<juliank> infinity: Just resuming also does not handle the case were the hash is wrong
<juliank> like I don't think it falls back to downloading the entire file if it turns out the resumed one is wrong
<infinity> juliank: You have to remember that the whole process tries later if it fails.  In theory.
<infinity> In practice, I'm suspicious, given people claiming this is breaking upgrades. :P
<juliank> infinity: ah, right it deletes
<infinity> But in theory, if you resume, finish download, hash fails, it'll unlink and return EPISSOFF, and then try the download again later.
<infinity> But... If that was working right, people wouldn't be complaining about broken upgrades, so there's some digging to be done there too.
<juliank> infinity: If it failed for more than 3 times, than it becomes an error
<juliank> um * 3 days
<infinity> I know that USED to work right.
<infinity> juliank: But not an error at dpkg time!
<juliank> infinity: Now people install the ttf installer from Debian which works fine
<infinity> That's my confusion about the bug complaints.
<juliank> but then people never get the stamp removed
<juliank> so next time the installer is updated in Ubuntu, it will be a year old or so
<juliank> it being the stamp
<infinity> I had msttcorefonts broken for ages because I didn't have dl.df.net whitelisted in squid-deb-proxy.  That never broke dpkg/apt upgrades, just caused annoying popups.
<infinity> dl.sf.net even.
<juliank> infinity: I don't think they say install fails
<infinity> Some of the comments claimed that.
<infinity> Something about it breaking "in the middle of a 1000 package upgrade", etc.
<juliank> hmm, odd
<infinity> Which is the only reason it's anymore more than a minor bug, really.
<infinity> I mean, it's more than minor at the package scope, obviously. :P
<infinity> But not the distro scope.
<infinity> Unless it interrupts upgrades.
<infinity> "Not easy to do if an upgrade fails with 1341 packages left to update!", comment 18.
<infinity> But maybe that dude was misdiagnosing a different upgrade failure and just blamed the first "error" in the log.
<infinity> Cause I don't see anyone else mentioning it interrupting and upgrade.
<infinity> juliank: Yeah, I guess ignore that.  I see no other indication that the package fails to configure for anyone else, and that guy provided no evidence.
<juliank> infinity: https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/dMFw6QRr3D/
<juliank> oops, should have added -f diff
<juliank> that's better (with syntax highlighting): https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/BYwqFkc5sF/
<juliank> infinity: I can change that to truncate if we want to, but I'm not sure
<juliank> this one is definitely safer
<infinity> I think this is safer, TBH.
<infinity> What does apt itself do for partials?
<infinity> check || resume && check || unlink && retry?
<infinity> Would be my guess.
<infinity> Which would also be fine here, but it feels heavy.
<juliank> infinity: I think it hashes the partial file
<juliank> infinity: Then it does the GET rather than calculating the digest and checking if it matches
<infinity> juliank: Right, s/check/hash/ above, and maybe we mean the same thing?
<juliank> well, it does not check the hash
<juliank> it just calculates it, and then does the GET
<juliank> This should be fixable in apt
<juliank> infinity:  see https://salsa.debian.org/apt-team/apt/blob/master/methods/http.cc#L1012
<infinity> I guess I'm curious if apt stumbles this hard in similar situations and we just don't notice because most apt mirrors are not braindead.
<juliank> infinity: Before the Req.StartPos > 0, we should check if the hashes we have so far match what we expect and then report that we are done
<infinity> Or if it's a more robust fail&&remove&&retry
<juliank> I'm not sure if it can retry
<infinity> Well, retry is the natural sane option for a failed resume.
<infinity> Or maybe unlink-and-let-the-user-retry, I suppose.
<infinity> juliank: Anyhow, given that the data-downloader API doesn't include filesize, I think your pastebin is sane.
<juliank> infinity: I think that too, and I already uploaded it to eoan
<juliank> I think fixing apt to not issue GET requests for files it already has downloaded fully is sensible too
<infinity> juliank: If we extended it to require size, then you could add an "if len != expected: resume" in there.
<juliank> but it's a lot more work
<juliank> because um, once you call Result() on your hashes object in apt, it freezes them
<infinity> juliank: But without size, I think all we can assume about a file on disk is it's either correct (matching sum) or completely useless.  Not much in between.
<juliank> hmm
<juliank> you don't know if it's incomplete, sure, but the server _should_ tell you that
<infinity> juliank: Oh, from an http client, yes.  I'm talking update-notifier, not apt.
<infinity> juliank: From apt, you can absolutely ask the server what it thinks the length is.
<infinity> update-notifier, not so much, cause the http bit is opaque to us.
<infinity> juliank: If apt-helper were robustified so that update-notifier could just call it blind and get "sane" (for some definition thereof) results, that'd be spiffy, but that's a much deeper rabbit hole.
<juliank> infinity: it might be eventually
<juliank> I should not have done this now I'm too awake
<infinity> Story of my life.
<infinity> juliank: OOI, should we revert ginggs' upload now that you've done the update-notifier one?
<infinity> I'm probably in a tiny minority, but I know his upload will actually fail to upgrade on my system. :P
<juliank> infinity: don't really care
<juliank> infinity: would be useful for testing I guess
<juliank> Also seems like mz TV remote batteries are empty ugh
<ginggs> infinity, juliank: ttf-mscorefonts-installer seems to be working with update-notifier 3.192.20, three successes in a row
<juliank> I think there might be one more-flaky mirror
<juliank> because remove && install should fix it and some reported it did not
<juliank> but maybe that was only changed in recent versions
<ginggs> juliank: purge and install did not work for me
<ginggs> yesterday and today
<ginggs> i have in /var/lib/update-notifier/package-data-downloads/partial/
<ginggs> -rw-r--r-- 1 _apt root 55047 Apr 28 13:22 andale32.exe.FAILED
<juliank> ginggs: heh, nevermind, it does not delete the file in there
<ginggs> so does that mean at least yesterday i had a partial download from a mirror?
<juliank> so um, that's suboptimal because if you remove the pacakge, the .exe don't get removed
<juliank> you must ahve had some complete download
<ginggs> ok, but the weird thing was it would fail on different files
<ahasenack> what does this deb10u1 suffix usually mean in a package's version? 200+deb10u1
<ahasenack> this is a native package, from debian (postgresql-common)
<ahasenack> they had version 200, and now 200+deb10u1
<juliank> ahasenack: 1st stable release update for debian 10
<ahasenack> hm
<juliank> ahasenack: I know, debian 10 is not out yet, but it's ok to use the versioning now I guess :)
<ahasenack> juliank: thanks
<mwhudson> LocutusOfBorg: oh huh i didn't suspect openssl
<infinity> mwhudson: Even as a completely context-free statement, that makes total sense.
<mwhudson> infinity: heh
<vorlon> infinity: hmmm in fact I don't see anything showing that dpkg or apt fails, I only see people quoting the error messages
#ubuntu-devel 2019-04-30
<infinity> vorlon: Yeah, it was only https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/msttcorefonts/+bug/1713615/comments/18 who implied a dpkg failure, and since he didn't back it up with any evidence, I'm going to assume he was smoking something, cause all the pasted logs look fine.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1713615 in ubuntu-restricted-extras (Ubuntu) "ttf-mscorefonts-installer fails because Redirection from https to http is forbidden" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<vorlon> Logan: have you seen that the new mtail's autopkgtests seem to be less than happy (possibly related to the presence of proxies)?
<juliank> infinity: So apt would have done the right thing with both filename and sha256; but apt-helper only accepts one
<juliank> this fixes it: https://github.com/Debian/apt/compare/master...julian-klode:pu/apt-helper-multihash?expand=1
<juliank> allows you to add as many hashes a you want to a download-file
<juliank> (download-file accepts multiple URL PATH pairs, so it's a bit confusing
<LocutusOfBorg> mwhudson, it was quite easy to find out... I did build successfully on my laptop (bionic amd64) and it failed on ppa, so I found two possible reasons: 1) restrictions on ppas 2) something in -proposed pocket. I did reconfigure my ppa to not use proposed-pocket and the build was good, so I diffed the two logs and found that only gcc and openssl had -proposed version... looking at the version number of openssl gave me the answer
<LocutusOfBorg> without having to prove it :)
<LocutusOfBorg> mwhudson, golang-1.11 merge too please?
<LocutusOfBorg> also golang-defaults...
<LocutusOfBorg> I can do them if you want
<LocutusOfBorg> they are trivial
<ahasenack> hello sru team, we almost gave up on an sru that has been unverified for too long, but yesterday the reporter finally flipped the tags. That upload was blocking another more urgent sru, but looks like now it can finally move forward!
<ahasenack> it's sssd, and both bugs are green now in the sru report page: 	1722936 1793882
<rbasak> apw: linux-snapdragon ended up getting imported by git-ubuntu as it isn't matched by the blacklist. Is that a problem? Should I blacklist and/or remove the repo?
<coreycb> RAOF: hello, would you have cycles in your rotation today to take a look at nova in the xenial unapproved queue? we'd like to see if we can get that one moving along.
<apw> rbasak, i have no idea what it really means to be imported, i assume it is making a default repository called +git/linux-snapdragon which we then never use ?
<apw> rbasak, ahh there they are, as they are in another user entirely, i am not sure if i care either way if you blacklist them or not
<rbasak> apw: the repository will end up being the default one for the package if I don't blacklist it.
<apw> rbasak, presumbly not if i then later change it
<rbasak> apw: which would collide in the case of "linux", for example, which currently points to https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-kernel/ubuntu/+source/linux/+git/version-seeds/+ref/master
<rbasak> (but "linux" is blacklisted)
<apw> rbasak, are you saying you would move it back every time, or only when you first make it
<rbasak> apw: you could later change it, but you'd be fighting with our scripts - since occasionally we have to batch run the defaults change for all repositories that we import.
<rbasak> I can of course coordinate and adjust scripts which is why I'm talking to you :)
<apw> rbasak, it would feel like you should take the default if it has none currently, else not
<rbasak> The question is just what we want exactly to maximise benefit and minimise pain.
<apw> then the thing could always import safely
<rbasak> That's a good idea.
<apw> out default is stupid, i did that to try and make pushes to new repos cheaper, it didn't work
<apw> and some new git setting helped it not be so stupid
<rbasak> One thing I'd like is to reduce exceptions.
<apw> as i have no objction to linux being imported, so raw dscs are in there
<rbasak> git-ubuntu is most valuable if it works on all packages
<rbasak> You had warned me from importing linux for performance reasons :)
<apw> oh it might make you sad ;)
<apw> but i have no philosphical objection
<rbasak> Any objection to git-ubuntu eventually taking over the default for all packages without exception?
<apw> i don't know that that makes sense, the default should be what the packager expects you to use, no ?
<apw> not that we can even do that in our current namespace for linux for example
<rbasak> That makes it very painful for new and/or drive-by contributors
<apw> it is more painful surely if they do their work against an importer tree
<apw> and we have no way to work with what they give us, and make them do it another way
<rbasak> No way? git-rebase is trivial for us.
<rbasak> The benefit of doing it against an importer tree is consistent documentation and tooling for all packages.
<rbasak> When "git ubuntu build" and "git ubuntu lint" and "git ubuntu submit" eventually work.
<apw> i am going to ignore this part for now, and say, that i am expecting you will have to do something
<rbasak> Then it'll be a case of "clone, cherry-pick, build, submit".
<rbasak> No learning packaging involved.
<apw> witht the default, for the 'push a tag here as an upload' world,
<apw> so maybe it all becomes forced on us by then anyhow
<rbasak> OK. So let's leave it for a future discussion when tooling is better.
<rbasak> linux-snapdragon I'll ignore for now then, and let it continue importing.
<apw> rbasak, but with our per series repo split, we cannot use the default for anything useful, as you can only have one
<rbasak> It will become default when I next run the script (the importer instance can't do it since it doesn't have core dev credentials)
<rbasak> And next time I work on the script, I'll add your suggestion about only assigning the default if none is set.
<rbasak> (without --force or something)
<apw> sounds fine, i tend to unset the default to stop it being utterly confusing to people
<rbasak> OK. Thanks!
<seb128> bdmurray, hey, do you know what's needed to get http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-ee-incoming-bug-tasks.html generated?
<bdmurray> seb128: you reminding me ;-) maybe we should add it to the release opening checklist
<seb128> bdmurray, that would make sense I guess (or maybe the system should just be smart enough to query launchpad for active series and no need manual changes)
<seb128> bdmurray, thx in any case :)
<infinity> jdstrand: What are you trying to accomplish with gcc-multilib on arm64?
<infinity> jdstrand: Note that gcc-multilib:armhf (that you believe you want) is hf/sf multilib, not v8/v7.
<infinity> jdstrand: Is it possible that what you actually want is gcc-arm-linux-gnueabihf (which does exist on arm64)?
<jdstrand> infinity: to be able to use -m32 on arm64, like I can with gcc-multilib on amd64
<infinity> jdstrand: Yeah, -m32 on arm64 is a non-starter, as we don't do arm64 multilib.
<infinity> jdstrand: For any number of reasons, though a major one being that armv8 doesn't actually require armv7 compat as part of the spec.
<infinity> jdstrand: That said, I'd also suggest that multilib is an outdated, evil, and nasty concept that we might want to shy away from, not lean into. :P
<jdstrand> infinity: it is only for test code so I have 32 bit binaries I can run on 64 bit machines
<jdstrand> and trying to make that work with a single snapcraft.yaml that will build everything in LP
<infinity> jdstrand: Kay.  Keeping in mind, again, that most armv8 machines can't run 32-bit code. :P
<jdstrand> infinity: that's fine. I disabled the 32 bits bit from arm64 for this test code
<jdstrand> thanks for the info
<infinity> jdstrand: Anyhow, crossing with gcc-arm-linux-gnueabihf will produce 32-bit binaries.  Running them is a bit more exciting, since you won't have a libc or linker on path, but you can fudge that by running the linker by hand if you're only do it for test purposes.
<infinity> jdstrand: (ie: LD_PRELOAD=/path/to/cross/libc.so /path/to/cross/ld.so /path/to/test/binary)
<infinity> Or similary hideousness.
<jdstrand> yeah, I was thinking about that. I'd need to get a libc on the system I could use and the same bug that prevented me from getting gcc-multilib prevents me from getting that staged
<jdstrand> it works for amd64 so I'm ok
<infinity> jdstrand: I'm not sure how people will respond to your request for foreign arches in snap builds, but I've been strongly against it for deb builds because it leads to the architectures no longer being self-contained (and, also, some fuzziness on how to resolve multi-arch deps when packages exist on A, B, C, but not D, E, F)
<infinity> jdstrand: There's a libc pulled in by the cross gcc (it needs one to link to), it's just that ld.so and libc.so aren't on the usual paths, so don't "work" by default.  Aiming at them manually will make it magically work if the goal is just to build and run a throwaway binary.
<infinity> jdstrand: Then if you don't want weirdly divergent code, you could switch the x86 implementation to use gcc-i686-linux-gnu and the cross-libc too, but meh.
<infinity> (Guess how much I wish multilib wasn't a thing)
<infinity> (Guess how functional my time machine isn't)
<xnox> jdstrand, this been discussed before. and gcc-multilib is bad, crossbuild-essential-ARCH is good! and it does pull in the right libc, etc.
<jdstrand> yeah. since the arm doesn't require the compat, for the test code I think I'm good as is, but noted
<xnox> in all cases, devel machines, chroots, snap builds etc. and that's the thing to use. Including enabling multiarch deps, where needed.
<xnox> jdstrand, that's generic supported any-to-any solution.
<jdstrand> ack
<coreycb> bdmurray: hello, if you have cycles in your rotation today can you take a look at nova in the xenial unapproved queue? we'd like to see if we can get that one moving along.
<bdmurray> coreycb: bug 1708572 doesn't have any Ubuntu tasks
<ubottu> bug 1708572 in OpenStack Compute (nova) "Unable to live-migrate : Disk of instance is too large" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1708572
<coreycb> bdmurray: sorry about that. i've updated the bug.
<mwhudson> LocutusOfBorg: was going to do golang-defaults but forgot
<mwhudson> LocutusOfBorg: should probably remove golang-1.11, it'll be EOL by the time eoan releases
<mwhudson> (let's not mention anything about disco releasing with eol golang 1.10 oops)
#ubuntu-devel 2019-05-01
<RAOF> stgraber: Have you seen the cosmic lxd SRU autopkgtest failure: https://objectstorage.prodstack4-5.canonical.com/v1/AUTH_77e2ada1e7a84929a74ba3b87153c0ac/autopkgtest-cosmic/cosmic/amd64/a/autopkgtest/20190430_220636_4b3fc@/log.gz
<RAOF> stgraber: That looks like a real failure?
<stgraber> RAOF: unlikely, we've seen that one fail before, IIRC it's dependent on system load as the test may be a bit racy
<stgraber> RAOF: when you ask LXD to restart a container all it does is deliver a signal to PID 1 in the container. If init hasn't had time to setup its signal handler or another signal races with it, this may cause the init system to just ignore it
<RAOF> Oh, lovely :(
<RAOF> It's pretty reliably failing here: http://autopkgtest.ubuntu.com/packages/a/autopkgtest/cosmic/amd64
<stgraber> odd, I wonder what that test actually does, might be that it's not allowing any time for the init system to be done booting or could be that systemd is crashing for some reason
<stgraber> in any case, it can't be cause by this LXD SRU as 1) it was happening before and 2) the LXD sru doesn't actually change what LXD version you get on your system
<Logan> vorlon: yeah, I did notice that. Unfortunately, I'm not sure how to work around that issue with the proxy in autopkgtest for mtail. Did you have any ideas?
<RAOF> stgraber: Wait, what? How can the lxd sru not change what LXD version you get on your system? Surely that's the entire point of the SRU?
<stgraber> RAOF: no it's not
<stgraber> RAOF: lxd is snap only
<stgraber> RAOF: the deb installs the latest snap
<RAOF> Oh, right.
<RAOF> Yeah, I forgot that transition.
<RAOF> So, um, what does the SRU do?
<stgraber> RAOF: the change in this SRU is about changing the logic which moves you from deb to snap so it doesn't fail on WSL
<stgraber> as WSL doesn't have systemd or snapd things weren't working so well for those doing a bionic -> cosmic dist upgrade
<RAOF> Aha
<vorlon> Logan: I don't know if there's a way to override the environment for autopkgtest-pkg-go, but I would look there
<LocutusOfBorg> mwhudson, I subscribed release team to https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/golang-1.10/+bug/1827180
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1827180 in golang-1.10 (Ubuntu) "Remove golang-1.10 from EOAN" [Undecided,New]
<LocutusOfBorg> mwhudson, please change the default, my two no-change rebuilds have missed the default change
<LocutusOfBorg> I can do it, I have already the merge ready to go
<LocutusOfBorg> I created a bileto to test https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/3710
<apw> has anyone reported grub seeming to be unable to drive the display under efi on a lenovo; starting 'recently'
<mwhudson> LocutusOfBorg: i'm happy for you to upload the merge
<mwhudson> LocutusOfBorg: or maybe i'll finally get around to it tomorrow
<rbasak> rbalint: thank you for working on bug 520546. I keep hitting the lock screen and then realised I'm hitting that bug :)
<ubottu> bug 520546 in kbd (Ubuntu Eoan) "Alt+KEY incorrectly behaves like Ctrl+Alt+KEY, and/or unwanted VT switch from Alt+Left/Right" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/520546
<rbasak> (because Alt-Left in Firefox since they got rid of Backspace)
<LocutusOfBorg> mwhudson, I did it :) and published the bileto ticket
<LocutusOfBorg> I need some promotion now...
<mwhudson> LocutusOfBorg: oh heh i was going to update golang to 1.12 but well
<Logan> vorlon: thanks! I'll look into that.
<Eickmeyer> Anybody wanna throw-on a MOTU hat and look at bug 1827288? This would be my third sponsored package.
<ubottu> bug 1827288 in Ubuntu Studio "[Needs Packaging] LSP-Plugins for Eoan" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1827288
#ubuntu-devel 2019-05-02
<dja> hi all - does anyone know where the official upstream of sbsigntool lives now?
<dja> is it jejb's kernel.org repo, or does the official one live at Canonical still?
<sarnold> heh, the url in debian/copyright looks dead .. this looks like the new name for the old thing https://kernel.ubuntu.com/git/jk/sbsigntool/ -- looks like it's six years idle
<dja> yes, it's jk's old tool but it's still useful (the secure boot stuff hasn't changed much, and it was current when cyphermox wrote https://blog.ubuntu.com/2017/08/11/how-to-sign-things-for-secure-boot in 2017)
<cyphermox> dja: https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/jejb/sbsigntools.git/
<cyphermox> (it does need an update, more specifically a merge from Debian; I will take care of that)
<dja> cyphermox: cool. There's an issue in at least cosmic where sbverify ignores -v despite having code to process it, it needs the getopt line to include lowercase v as well as uppercase V
<dja> I can send a patch to james for master
<dja> ah looks like master already has it
<dja> cyphermox: master got the fix I wanted in 2014 so hopefully a sync with debian should catch it
<dja> thanks :)
<LocutusOfBorg> mwhudson, maybe we can make 1.11 migrate and then transition again?
<LocutusOfBorg> didrocks, ubuntu-report is having a sad day with new default golang... I don't think I understood the testsuite failure....
<didrocks> LocutusOfBorg: ah, interesting, I guess autopkgtests rdepends?
<didrocks> LocutusOfBorg: funny, because with the upstream google compiler, I'm using 1.11 (and not 1.12) for monthsâ¦
<didrocks> I bet it's a question of 1.11 with modules and it tries to fetch the upstream repo instead of the vendor/ directory
<didrocks> and no git installed, soâ¦
<didrocks> the question is really why gccgo 1.11 ignores the vendor/ directory
<didrocks> (upstream compiler doesn't)
<didrocks> that's in mwhudson's hand IMHO
<LocutusOfBorg> didrocks, interesting I found mostly the same, after installing a lot of golang packages
<LocutusOfBorg> didrocks, interesting I found mostly the same, after installing a lot of golang packages
<mwhudson> uh what
<xnox> mwhudson, didrocks, does any of https://github.com/golang/go/issues/29670 make sense?
<LocutusOfBorg> I mean, I installed stuff like: golang-github-spf13-pflag-dev and so on
<xnox> you shall have PWD in GOPATH?
<LocutusOfBorg> and it still tries to fetch them...
<LocutusOfBorg> even 1.12 seems to fail...
<xnox> didrocks, i wonder if 'cd /tmp' at the end of debian/tests/setup would fix everything.....
<mwhudson> oh well
<didrocks> xnox: need to test it. I don't have 1.11.4 here (upstream 1.12.*)
<xnox> didrocks, yeah, i'm doing...
<didrocks> thx
<xnox> didrocks, also I wonder if the autopkgtest can be reduced to:
<xnox> Test-Command: /bin/true
<xnox> Restrictions: requires-build
<xnox> or whatever it was to ask autopkgtest to rebuild the package
<didrocks> yeah, basically the idea is to rebuild + run the package tests
<mwhudson> or GO111MODULE=off
<mwhudson> "Outside GOPATH while inside a file tree with a go.mod â defaults to modules behavior"
<xnox> cause that restriction would get you rw build-tree without needing to copy src tree.
<didrocks> mwhudson: how is this related? in both behavior they should look at the vendor/ directory
<xnox> and like one should use AUTOPKGTMP not /tmp
<didrocks> so unsure if autopkgtests doesn't include it
<mwhudson> "By default, go commands like go build ignore the vendor directory when in module mode."
<mwhudson> if you're in a directory that's not in GOPATH and there is a go.mod file -> module mode
<didrocks> mwhudson: where is that coming from? That was the first intent, but then, it got amended for distros like us
<didrocks> when I discussed with Russ Cox
<mwhudson> https://github.com/golang/go/wiki/Modules#when-do-i-get-old-behavior-vs-new-module-based-behavior
<mwhudson> i should say that i'm not very aware of modules
<mwhudson> but the behaviour in the autopkgtest is consistent with that wiki page
<didrocks> I'm using modules for some months already :)
<xnox> 'cd /tmp' fixes everything
<xnox> let me try the GO111MODULE=off
<didrocks> ok, so it's just that we are not in the correct directory
<didrocks> I wonder if -mod=vendor hasn't been added in 1.12, not 1.11
<didrocks> I'll add that for future references, at least with gccgo as I only use a vendor directory for the ubuntu package (not when doing upstream dev)
<mwhudson> didrocks: why are you using gccgo!?
<xnox> didrocks, mwhudson - 'export GO111MODULE=off' in debian/tests/setup also works
<xnox> i can upload fixup with either 'cd' or 'export' or both.... any preference?
<didrocks> mwhudson: isn't what the distro is using? Not upstream go compiiler?
<mwhudson> didrocks: if you want to figure out how go modules should interact with packaging and implement that in debain ... >:)
<mwhudson> didrocks: no!
<didrocks> xnox: I would like to try GOFLAGS
<LocutusOfBorg> me too
<LocutusOfBorg> :)
<xnox> didrocks, what do you want me to try in GOFLAGS?
<didrocks> xnox: GOFLAGS=-mod=vendor
<xnox> so... export GOFLAGS=-mod=vendor ?
<didrocks> mwhudson: ah, I really thought that, good news
<didrocks> yep
<didrocks> xnox: it should pick the vendor/ directory in that case
<LocutusOfBorg> goflags works too...
<xnox> didrocks, we have always used golang-go on all arches it was available on, and only fellback to gccgo on arches that didn't. but golango is now available on all arches.
<didrocks> mwhudson: if I have official time allocated for figuring out go modules support in debian, I would love to :)
<mwhudson> didrocks: go build -mod=vendor is supported in 1.11 it seems
<didrocks> xnox: ah, that's where my misinterpretation was for
<mwhudson> didrocks: what kind of whisky does will like? :)
<didrocks> mwhudson: ask him, he may answer that he prefers beers anyway :p
<xnox> didrocks, GOFLAGS works too. so which of the three to upload?
 * xnox doesn't like the version number in that GO111MODULE=off variable, as if, it's per-version-specific var
<mwhudson> i think the idea is that it indicates the version it became valid in
<didrocks> xnox: please use GOFLAGS and submit it in ubuntu-report upstream :)
<mwhudson> you're not going to have to say GO112MODULE=off with go 1.12
 * mwhudson afk for a while
<xnox> i see that didrocks 2019 edition, does not like to prefix releases with 'v' =)
<xnox> https://github.com/xnox/ubuntu-report/releases
<didrocks> xnox: arg, nicely spotted! I blame debcommit -r :)
 * didrocks adds a second tag
 * xnox ponders if i should be uploading or not
<xnox> https://github.com/ubuntu/ubuntu-report/pull/27
<xnox> please upload?
<LocutusOfBorg> btw xnox you might want to add all the three and decomment only the GOFLAGS one, so in case in future something breaks again... we have fallbacks
<didrocks> xnox: feel free to upload :)
<xnox> didrocks, ack, pushed tag to my repo. no idea if github merges tags or not.
<didrocks> xnox: I guess for safety I'll pull/push
<didrocks> once CI pass :p
<xnox> didrocks, i think it's a trap
<didrocks> heh
<xnox> didrocks, "feel free to upload" and like no.....
<xnox> 376 files changed, 7 insertions(+), 201177 deletions(-)
<didrocks> hum
<xnox> is my diffstat when i try to make an upload
<didrocks> what?
<didrocks> ah I know
<didrocks> you need to go mod vendor
<xnox> well, vendor tree is not in git?! or i failed to init them?
<didrocks> to generate that vendor/ dir
<didrocks> yeah, it's not in git
<xnox> yeah, not doing that =)
<didrocks> because you have go.mod and go.lock which defines the content
<didrocks> so you have the exact same content
<didrocks> I can upload anyway if you are scared :p
<didrocks> let me sponsor you :p
<didrocks> the day we have module support in debian/ubuntu, this go mod vendor can cease to exists
<xnox> willcooke is not in the channel, but i am offering a whiskey tasting out of my own reserves to make ^ happen.
<didrocks> heh
<LocutusOfBorg> travis is happy!
<didrocks>  changelog   |    6 ++++++
<didrocks>  tests/setup |    1 +
<didrocks> looks better ;)
<didrocks> sponsored with love :)
<didrocks> thanks xnox, mwhudson, LocutusOfBorg
<LocutusOfBorg> thanks you all!
<LocutusOfBorg> I hope we can move forward with golang-1.12 now :)
<LocutusOfBorg> I'm stealing golang-1.11 merge :D
<didrocks> same :)
<didrocks> I have even some dreams of 1.13 released in early August and us picking it up
<LocutusOfBorg> or mwhudson you want to do it?
<LocutusOfBorg> the changelog is not listing all the delta, I'm unsure if it is wanted or not...
<xnox> i did not expect the day to start with go; it was meant to start with perl!
<LocutusOfBorg> you mean perl 5.28.2? :) /me hides
<xnox> nah, just some modules
<LocutusOfBorg> yep I know, I see the proposed page :)
<xnox> Laney, our armhf autopkgtests appear to lack internets
<xnox> Err:50 http://ftpmaster.internal/ubuntu eoan/main armhf pinentry-curses armhf 1.1.0-2
<xnox>   Unable to connect to ftpmaster.internal:http:
<Laney> retry
<Laney> it happens sometimes, nobody has ever been able to figure it out
<Laney> never ever happens when you access them manually, that would be too easy
<xnox> hahaha
<xnox> yeah the other package now passed. lolz
<LocutusOfBorg> Laney, since the introduction of systemd-resolve, from time to time, I get some DNS resolving failure
<dupondje> Was just about to ask something about golang-1.12 :) And I see history is full of golang talk :)
<Laney> same thing
<LocutusOfBorg> and when I type: "systemd-resolve --status" to figure it out, my laptop auto-heals
<Laney> oh
<Laney> not on tests
<Laney> don't ask me about that stuff :-)
<dupondje> Are there plans to get 1.12.4 into disco?
<LocutusOfBorg> dupondje, like the one already in eoan? https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/golang-1.12
<dupondje> LocutusOfBorg: yep
<LocutusOfBorg> just backport it into your ppa :)
<dupondje> its bugfix only release, so might be usefull to backport it to disco no?
<LocutusOfBorg> I'm to scared to SRU something I don't understand completely
<LocutusOfBorg> dupondje, golang is a black hole for me
<LocutusOfBorg> so... I don't know implications wrt archive sanity of stuff built with the previous version
<LocutusOfBorg> as well as ABI issues while looking at the diff
<LocutusOfBorg> and disco will be EOL soon, like in some months or so, loong before I can learn that language
<LocutusOfBorg> Laney, the question was actually: can we put some hook to launch systemd-resolve --status when failures happen? or a cronjob saving it? or: are you using that as dns daemon or not?
<Laney> seriously?
<LocutusOfBorg> I don't know if you are using systemd to resolve or not...
<LocutusOfBorg> I presume you have some DNS server in your lan to translate ftpmaster.internal into a private ip, right?
<Laney> yes it's using systemd-resolved, but adding a hack like that is not really appropriate
<Laney> if there's a bug then it should be fixed...
<LocutusOfBorg> Laney, I'm not asking to add in the archive... I'm asking to add it in some machine to reproduce and log the issue to debug it
<LocutusOfBorg> or try to see if stop using it helps...
<Laney> and if you're experiencing the bug, then woohoo! we have someone who can debug
<LocutusOfBorg> that would be *too* easy
<LocutusOfBorg> :)
<LocutusOfBorg> is it possible to install a custom systemd version on some armhf runners with debug code? or isolate some machines from the net and use them for testing purposes?
<LocutusOfBorg> that systemd-resolve bug is something I'm trying to understand why/when happens since a lot, and it is happening on my machine
<LocutusOfBorg> hopefully it is the same, and I presume it happens when I switch network, sometimes I'm connected on the same network via eth and wifi, when I disconnect wifi looks like the routing tables are not updated until I do some arp on the network (hopefully this is what systemd-resolve does)
<LocutusOfBorg> I know having many connections on the same lan is not correct, this is something I forget to do (switching off wifi)
<LocutusOfBorg> xnox, do you have systemd merge plans?
<xnox> yes, i will merge systemd
 * LocutusOfBorg wornders if something on new systemd will make armhf workers more happy
<mwhudson> LocutusOfBorg: sure go ahead with 1.12
<LocutusOfBorg> mwhudson, the changes in gbp.conf are useful or not?
<LocutusOfBorg> https://patches.ubuntu.com/g/golang-1.12/golang-1.12_1.12.4-1ubuntu1.patch
<LocutusOfBorg> also, the "find -delete *.syso" is not listed in changelog
<LocutusOfBorg> I think you should commit them on debian git repo...
 * LocutusOfBorg golang uploaded
<mwhudson> LocutusOfBorg: uhh i merged golang-1.12 already
<mwhudson> didn't i?
<mwhudson> LocutusOfBorg: i thought you were talking about moving the default onto 1.12 ...
<LocutusOfBorg> yep you did I made a mistake, I now uploaded 1.11 merged
<LocutusOfBorg> I leave 1.11 default migrate (hopefully on next britney run) and then leave to you the default switch to 1.12
<LocutusOfBorg> my biggers concern is to kick 1.10 out
<mwhudson> LocutusOfBorg: the changes in gbp.conf are useful
<mwhudson> <LocutusOfBorg> also, the "find -delete *.syso" is not listed in changelog
<mwhudson> sure it is, that's what "Do not distribute un-built from source race detector runtime files" is about
<mwhudson> i should probably get that change into debian but my inertia for ITP-ing golang-race-detector-runtime seems to be basically infinite
<mwhudson> LocutusOfBorg: i do the merges from debian via git not mom btw
 * mwhudson zzz
<LocutusOfBorg> mwhudson, do you need a debian sponsor?
<LocutusOfBorg> I couldn't find the ubuntu branch on debian git, but I might be wrong, and I hope the delta will go away...
<Wafficus> hi there can anyome help me modify the Ubuntu ISO Tester to solely automate the testing of Lubuntu isos?
<Wafficus> https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-server-iso-testing-dev/ubuntu-server-iso-testing/trunk/view/head:/docs/README.dev
<Wafficus> if anyone can point me to the specific spot of the docs on how to use altermate isos id appreciate it
<Wafficus>  my email is SBanya@outlook.com if you can help me
<Wafficus> thanks
<sahid> Laney: hello, in autopktest, what is related to the armhf worker? i have difficulty to find that
<sahid> in my idea that was the arm64 workers but it seems that i'm worng
<sahid> coreycb: ^ you might have an idea
<acheronuk> mwhudson: hi. now eoan exists here, https://partner-images.canonical.com/core/eoan/current/ , is there a change of eoan docker images soon?
<acheronuk> *chance of
<coreycb> sahid: i'm not sure that i understand the question
<sahid> coreycb: it's related to this merge request https://code.launchpad.net/~sahid-ferdjaoui/autopkgtest-cloud/+git/autopkgtest-cloud/+merge/366696
<obiwahn> hi guys i would like to build a newer binutils for 16.4 so it can be used in travis
<obiwahn> it would be cool if here is somebody who can provide me with a template and who answers a few questions as they araise
<doko> oSoMoN: the fonts update was needed because the new version was required in the security pocket
<oSoMoN> doko, ack, that's what I understood from talking to t_daitx, but the cosmic task in the bug report was irrelevant, right?
<doko> I assume so
<coreycb> sahid: ah i see, you've updated the arm64 conf and there's no obvious armhf conf?
<sahid> coreycb: yep
<sahid> i was expecting Laney to give me a hint
<rbasak> obiwahn: are you speaking as Travis upstream, or a Travis user? You should just ask your questions - nobody is going to put themselves on the hook for answering if they don't know what the questions are.
<obiwahn> How do I get the 18.04 biutils sources on 16.04?
<obiwahn> i know there ist apt-get source
<obiwahn> Is there a cross release mechanism to get the sources?
<sarnold> obiwahn: copy the /etc/apt/sources.list to /etc/apt/sources.list.d/bionic.list -- replace all the 'xenial' with 'bionic', then apt-get update && apt-get source binutils/bionic
<rbasak> obiwahn: the cross release mechanism Ubuntu developers use is "pull-lp-source binutils bionic". pull-lp-source is in the ubuntu-dev-tools package.
<JohnGavr> hello there
<JohnGavr> I am coming here with a question about the new kernel
<JohnGavr> When i stop a video or a music in any client, i hear a bip on the external audio speakers. In other kernels don't do that.
<obiwahn> thank you - i am just setting up a vm and look how far i get
<JohnGavr> obiwahn, are you talking to me?
<Eickmeyer> !support | JohnGavr
<ubottu> JohnGavr: The official ubuntu support channel is #ubuntu. Please be aware that this channel is for development only.
<obiwahn> rbasak: I have unsatisfied build deps for binutils. I can proably build it with any other older gcc but what must I do to change the dependencies? Is it ok just to lower the versions in the control file?
<obiwahn> i think i just try to change files in the binutils dir and build the content with dpkg-buildpackage.
<obiwahn> oh gosh dpkg-gencontrol|vendor has it to be that complicated:P
<cjwatson> You shouldn't normally use dpkg-gencontrol manually
<cjwatson> Changing debian/control is usually all you need to do to change build-deps, unless debian/control is generated from other files in debian/ (which is fairly rare but some packages do it - in that case poke through the rules files under debian/ to find what the actual source file is and change that)
<obiwahn> cjwatson: What are the correct steps to change the dependencies when creating a backport?
<cjwatson> Depends wildly
<cjwatson> I mean most backports don't need to change build-dependencies
<cjwatson> In the cases that do it's utterly specific to the problem at hand
<cjwatson> But for general advice on changing build-deps, see my previous remark
<sarnold> obiwahn: hmm. I wonder, if you actually want bionic on travis's xenial systems, maybe using debootstrap would get you to your desired end result more quickly
<ddstreet> xnox i see systemd in eoan is still failing boot-smoke due to lp #1825997 do you want me to prep a debdiff for you to include in your next upload or are you already working on it
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1825997 in systemd (Ubuntu Eoan) "boot-smoke fails due to running jobs" [Low,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1825997
<ddstreet> i have a patch ready to fix it, then i think storage is the only failing test left, right?
<ddstreet> xnox mp for u: https://code.launchpad.net/~ddstreet/ubuntu/+source/systemd/+git/systemd/+merge/366857
<ddstreet> enjoy
<pipegeek> hi, folks!  was wondering: how does GNOME Software determine which packages to make visible and which ones to hide from search results?
<obiwahn> Is there a command to install everything that is in a control file. Something like apt-get build-dep but for control files instead of packages
<pipegeek> and in particular, would it be reasonable to open a feature request bug against the network-manager-.*-gnome packages (or against gnome-software depending on how that works) to request that they be made visible through that interface?
<pipegeek> those seem like reasonable things for nontechnical end-users to want to be able to install (e.g. "L2TP VPN Support for Gnome")
<pipegeek> without having to open a terminal to do it
<pipegeek> never mind!  I just realized I can't read
<pipegeek> it's already there, it's just not listed as a separate package.
<pipegeek> sorry for the noise :)
<mwhudson> acheronuk: in short, yes
<mwhudson> LocutusOfBorg: no, i maintain all this crap in debian too
<mwhudson> LocutusOfBorg: the ubuntu branches are only in my launchpad git repo, not debian
<mwhudson> LocutusOfBorg: so it's perfectly reasonable for you not to have found them, now that I remember that fact :)
<Unit193> mwhudson: ...If you get bored, could I entice you to look at gocryptfs?  (Sorry I'm bugging about this one yet again..)
<mwhudson> Unit193: uhh as in why is it still in proposed?
<mwhudson> looks like it depends on the new golang-golang-x-sys
<mwhudson> golang-go4 maybe needs new grpc?
<mwhudson> this stuff is all such a mess
<Unit193> That's kind of why I asked you, since you seem to be an expert.  It got stuck in disco because x-sys needed a retry on arm64 (so I ended up backporting both to a PPA)
<mwhudson> hmm clearly i need to stop appearing like an expert :)
<Unit193> Too late.
#ubuntu-devel 2019-05-03
<obiwahn> sarnold: At the moment a build takes about 3 minutes I think deboostrap is a bit much? If creating a package turns out to be too hard I can just create the binaries and copy them. But I will continue later today.
<oSoMoN> doko, good morning! you mentioned a while back that the libreoffice java vendor patches will need to be backported to stable releases, does that include xenial?
<oSoMoN> tdaitx, you might have the answer to that question? ^
<Laney> sahid: it's the worker-lxd.conf
<sahid> Laney: thanks I just updated the merge request
<doko> oSoMoN: no, backed that out from the backports. so you can backport them, and once they are, I can apply those to the openjdk backport as well
<marcustomlinson> hey doko, I'll be doing the backporting. I'm not sure I understand what you're saying. Xenial is backed out of the backports? So we're only concerned with Bionic for this?
<oSoMoN> doko, yeah, the question was rather: will you be backporting openjdk to xenial too, or only bionic?
<doko> oSoMoN, marcustomlinson: there probably are PPA builds, nothing in the distro. but if you backport this change, I can enable it even for the ppa builds
<doko> and I'm waiting with the bionic backport until you have fixed that
<marcustomlinson> alright, I'm in the process of SRU'ing both xenial and bionic so I might as well include it in both
<doko> ok, just let me know about the versions, and I'll add appropriate breaks
<marcustomlinson> doko: it'll be 1:6.0.7-0ubuntu0.18.04.5, and 1:5.1.6~rc2-0ubuntu1~xenial7
<LocutusOfBorg> xnox, hello, can you please do some merges with your name on it? e.g. python-pyvmomi should be syncd, right? there is something that is build-depending on stuff that needs merging...
<tsimonq2> @pilot in
* udevbot_ changed the topic of #ubuntu-devel to: Archive: Open | 19.04 Released! | Devel of Ubuntu (not support) | Build failures: http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs/ | #ubuntu for support and discussion of Trusty-Disco | If you can't send messages here, authenticate to NickServ first | Patch Pilots: tsimonq2
<tsimonq2> ohai :)
<xnox> LocutusOfBorg, ack.
<LocutusOfBorg> lovely thanks! I see for some of them you are TIL because of "no change rebuild", I presume you might not care, right?
 * LocutusOfBorg did a generic question, not a specific one, related to everybody that has a merge
<tsimonq2> seb128: Bug 1821410 might interest you as a "polish then upload" bug.
<ubottu> bug 1821410 in gpaste (Ubuntu Disco) "Upgrade GPaste to 3.32 for 19.04" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1821410
<LocutusOfBorg> I think no-change rebuilds should not be listed by DOM, only the last "meaningful upload" should be considered
<tsimonq2> LocutusOfBorg: Please remember to unsubscribe sponsors when you sponsor packages :) bug 1824560 is one I just looked at
<ubottu> bug 1824560 in pentobi (Ubuntu Disco) "pentobi fails to startup in Ubuntu 19.04 beta" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1824560
<seb128> tsimonq2, thank, it would be nice to have, I'm unsure I've the slot to work on non default components atm so if someone can beat me into sponsoring please do
<LocutusOfBorg> tsimonq2, do I have privileges to do that?
<tsimonq2> seb128: Sounds good, just needs the SRU bug template.
<LocutusOfBorg> yes I have them
<LocutusOfBorg> ack then
<tsimonq2> cool :)
<seb128> tsimonq2, it's a bit of a shame that you unsubscribed sponsors, it pretty much garantee that we are going to forget about it if the contributor doesn't do the paperwork/subscribe the team back
<tsimonq2> seb128: Yeah, like you said on the ML, ideally we'd have a separate page for it. ;?
<tsimonq2> *:/
<tsimonq2> Now that we have a public log though, I'll make a note to follow up on this bug once that is implemented.
<seb128> tsimonq2, that would be one way, the other would be to do as well did until now and keep sponsors subscribed
<seb128> it makes some "noise" on the list but I think it's better to have noise than loose contributions
<tsimonq2> I'm certainly not opposed to it.
<LocutusOfBorg> sponsored LP #1821130
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1821130 in twextpy (Ubuntu Disco) "Sync twextpy 1:0.1~git20161216.0.b90293c-2 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1821130
<tsimonq2> LocutusOfBorg: ack
<tsimonq2> LocutusOfBorg: If you're working on sponsoring as well, perhaps you should @pilot in ;)
<tsimonq2> oSoMoN: Hi, did you plan on driving bug 1827451?
<ubottu> bug 1827451 in libreoffice (Ubuntu Cosmic) "Japanese new era "Reiwa(ä»¤å)" support" [Undecided,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1827451
<tsimonq2> Otherwise, that's the queue :)
<oSoMoN> tsimonq2, I'm handing over maintenance of libreoffice to marcustomlinson, he will drive it
<tsimonq2> Sounds good, thanks!
<LocutusOfBorg> tsimonq2, I don't want to pilot in, I just did three of them :)
<tsimonq2> LocutusOfBorg: ;D
<LocutusOfBorg> I don't have a slot
<tsimonq2> ok
<tsimonq2> @pilot out
* udevbot_ changed the topic of #ubuntu-devel to: Archive: Open | 19.04 Released! | Devel of Ubuntu (not support) | Build failures: http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs/ | #ubuntu for support and discussion of Trusty-Disco | If you can't send messages here, authenticate to NickServ first | Patch Pilots:
<tsimonq2> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2019-May/040678.html
<seb128> doko, bug #1827499 unsure how important the issue is but since the description mentions some memory corruption it might be worth checking that it's not potentially a security issue
<ubottu> bug 1827499 in bash (Ubuntu) "bash uninitialized memory access" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1827499
<seb128> (it's fixed in 5.0/disco but not bionic)
<vorlon> jbicha: did you see my ping before questioning the utility of gparted's delta?
#ubuntu-devel 2019-05-04
<sarnold> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1548973
<ubottu> Mozilla bug 1548973 in Add-ons Manager "All extensions disabled due to expiration of intermediate signing cert" [Blocker,New]
<Unit193> Ain't that freaking fantastic?
<sarnold> hmm. no osomon on irc either.
<Unit193> They're all too busy looking at the shiny features of slack that they'll never use. :>
<brlin> I would like to ask whether it is possible to extract files from Ubuntu Desktop installation image to a FAT file system drive and make it _fully_ functional as a bootable installation drive under UEFI firmware
<rbasak> brlin: this channel is specifically for the development of Ubuntu itself. I suggest you try somewhere like askubuntu.com since your question is quite specialist and it seems unlikely to me that someone suitable expert will be around to give you an answer in realtime.
<dupondje> Hmmm, will Ubuntu ship an updated firefox asap?
<dupondje> or :)
<dupondje> You can fix it by enabling studies, but thats disabled by default in ubuntu
<dupondje> so :(
<dupondje> chrisccoulson: don't know if you are still involved into firefox on ubuntu?
<TJ-> dupondje: Mozilla are pushing out fixes, I've seen addons re-enabled already
<dupondje> TJ-: I know, but they push fixes via studies, and thats disabled by default in ubuntu builds it seems
<dupondje> so we won't get the fix by default
<dupondje> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/firefox/+bug/1827727 created some bug for tracking
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1827727 in firefox (Ubuntu) "All plugins disabled due to expired cert" [Undecided,New]
<TJ-> dupondje: ahh, didn't realise that, is that controlled by the app.shield.optoutstudies.enabled=true key?
<dupondje> TJ-: think thats the one indeed
<dupondje> but you can only enable studies when you enable some (basic) telemetry
<dupondje> and it can take up to 6 hours until you get the fix
<dupondje> not something you want I guess :D
<TJ-> dupondje: I was confused since that is enabled on an ubuntu build of FF here, on Raspbian :)
<brlin> rbasak: Got it, thanks!
<tsimonq2> dupondje: Erm, isn't a server-side issue with Mozilla?
<tsimonq2> All add-ons are working perfectly fine here on Eoan.
<cjwatson> tsimonq2: Depends on your configuration.  Following links from the upstream bug report it seems to be being fixed at least in part by changes to browser code (e.g. https://hg.mozilla.org/releases/mozilla-release/rev/94eb3f14832dfc714f8bc4044eee043ce61c0299)
<tsimonq2> cjwatson: Ah, ack.
#ubuntu-devel 2019-05-05
<LocutusOfBorg> xnox, can you please prepare a crmsh merge? I have bileto https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/3712 for new pacemaker...
<LocutusOfBorg> I would like to land it soon(TM)
<Wafficus> Hi there, who here can help me modify the existing Ubuntu ISO tester to make it work for the Lubuntu OS's isos?
<Wafficus> https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-server-iso-testing-dev/ubuntu-server-iso-testing/trunk
<Wafficus> ^ that's the ISO tester I am inquiring about
<Wafficus> just wanted to modify it to instead test for Lubuntu ISOs
#ubuntu-devel 2020-04-27
<mitya57> sil2100: hi! Now that groovy is open, can you please add it to Bileto?
<mitya57> I guess it will be reverting https://git.launchpad.net/bileto/commit/?id=48137fa785297961c2a3c090ed557ef2393aa268 or something like that :)
<Laney> bahaha that commit
<sil2100> Yeah, darn lru cache
<sil2100> mitya57: sure ;p
* sil2100 changed the topic of #ubuntu-devel to: Archive: Open | 20.04 Released! | Devel of Ubuntu (not support) | Build failures: http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs/ | #ubuntu for support and discussion of Trusty-Focal | If you can't send messages here, authenticate to NickServ first | Patch Pilots:
<sil2100> I'm really thinking of removing the lru_cache for that one, but then again this only needs to be done twice a year, so oh well
<juliank> sil2100: can't you like make it so it rechecks every hour or so, like a timeout?
<juliank> that'd be enough
<juliank> heck, 24 hours would be enough
<rbasak> You could use cachetools, which lets you specify a cache key
<rbasak> Then additionally key on the day number or something like that.
<rbasak> (or maybe (year, month, day) to avoid regressing on the same day each month actually)
<rbasak> Oh
<rbasak> cachetools has a TTL cache
<rbasak> Even easier :)
<popey> is there a canonical way to see why a package was removed from focal (not python2 related, i think)?
<cjwatson> popey: LP publishing history
<popey> is that accessible via some url nonsense?
<cjwatson> There are links in the UI ...
<cjwatson> (assuming you mean a source package)
<popey> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/spek
<popey> i am there
<popey> aha, top right
<cjwatson> "View full publishing history", top right
<popey> ta
<popey> I was in a maze of corridors
<cjwatson> So reflected from https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=941338
<ubottu> Debian bug 941338 in ftp.debian.org "RM: spek -- RoQA; dead upstream; unmaintained; low popcon; RC-buggy" [Normal,Open]
<popey> perfecto, thank you!
<ricotz> Laney, msttcorefonts fails to install, PermissionError: [Errno 13] Permission denied: '/usr/lib/msttcorefonts/update-ms-fonts'
<ricotz> LocutusOfBorg, ^
<ricotz> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 6155 Apr 26 18:51 /usr/lib/msttcorefonts/update-ms-fonts
<mitya57> sil2100: it works now, thanks!
<Laney> LocutusOfBorg: Looks like protobuf FTBFS on i386
<LocutusOfBorg> Laney, do you have an hit for that?
<LocutusOfBorg> ricotz, on my way
<Laney> LocutusOfBorg: Probably don't build that elpa-... package on i386
<LocutusOfBorg> I was trying to figure out if we can add something to that i386 whitelist
<LocutusOfBorg> dh-elpa should be installable on i386...
<LocutusOfBorg> but yes, your solution works if the first is not viable
<Laney> that means building emacs
<LocutusOfBorg> building an OS on i386 seems a good thing to do, right? :)
<LocutusOfBorg> I have a patch ongoing testbuild on my ppa
<LocutusOfBorg> ricotz, its in queue/uploaded, it was a missing +x
<ricotz> LocutusOfBorg, I figured that much ;)
<santa_> hello everybody
<santa_> ahasenack: I have been suffering a bug in samba 4.11.6; I have seen yo tried to get the 4.11.7 version here: https://launchpad.net/~ahasenack/+archive/ubuntu/samba-4117/+packages
<ahasenack> santa_: what bug? Do you have a link?
<santa_> so I tried to finish the work here: https://launchpad.net/~panfaust/+archive/ubuntu/samba-4117
<santa_> ahasenack: yes, to summarize: some files are shown as folders so I can't access it, let me find the bug report...
<ahasenack> ah, that one
<ahasenack> I just added a comment to it this morning
<santa_> yeah, that one
<santa_> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/samba/+bug/1872476
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1872476 in samba (Ubuntu) "Shared files are shown as folders" [Undecided,New]
<santa_> ahasenack: FYI when working for my company I had to set these two in smb.conf
<santa_> client min protocol = NT1
<santa_> client max protocol = NT1
<ahasenack> santa_: we won't do that in the package, that is enabling the deprecated and insecure SMB1 protocol version
<ahasenack> not just enabling, but forcing it
<santa_> ahasenack: I know I'm not asking you to do that in the package, but perhaps you could use that kind of configuration to reproduce the bug?
<ahasenack> have you tried smbclient with -m?
<santa_> ahasenack: the few tests I did were with kde's plasma and smb://
<ahasenack> santa_: ah, ok
<ahasenack> santa_: yeah, forcing NT1 showed the bug for me
<ahasenack> in the gui
<santa_> ok, so you should be able to test the 4.11.7 packages and just check that the bug doesn't happen there
<ahasenack> smbclient works fine still (with -m NT1)
<ahasenack> santa_: you confirmed that it works in 4.11.7?
<santa_> ahasenack: yes, with kde's kio smb://
 * ahasenack checks the release notes at https://www.samba.org/samba/history/samba-4.11.7.html
<ahasenack> I almost added that to focal, but something else more urgent got in the way
<santa_> yeah, I have seen you just didn't have time to update the ldb symbols files ;)
<ahasenack> I might be able to grab the fix
<ahasenack> santa_: can you please add to the bug that 4.11.7 works, and that to reproduce the bug one has to really force NT1? (both max and min)
<santa_> ahasenack: ack, I will do that. how this could be fixed for focal? just patching 4.11.6 or having 4.11.7 as SRU?
<ahasenack> preferably patching 4.11.6
<ahasenack> 4.11.7, even though it has only bug fixes, would be harder as an sru
<santa_> allright, a co-worker suggested me to dig into this https://bugzilla.samba.org/show_bug.cgi?id=14101
<ubottu> Error: Could not parse XML returned by bugzilla.samba.org: mismatched tag: line 100, column 4 (https://bugzilla.samba.org/show_bug.cgi?id=14101&ctype=xml)
<ahasenack> santa_: that looks promising, but doesn't explain why 4.11.7 works
<santa_> ahasenack: so, I presume you don't have yet a patch candidate? needless to say I will be very glad to prepare a fixed package for a focal SRU if you want to sponsor it
<ahasenack> I was checking the 11.7 release notes and was going to try https://bugzilla.samba.org/show_bug.cgi?id=14285, which was in the 4.11.7 release notes list, even though doesn't look too related
<ubottu> Error: Could not parse XML returned by bugzilla.samba.org: mismatched tag: line 100, column 4 (https://bugzilla.samba.org/show_bug.cgi?id=14285&ctype=xml)
<ahasenack> your link looks more related
<santa_> ack, so we just need to find which commit fixed this
<ahasenack> santa_: #14101 was claimed to be fixed in 4.11.6, maybe 4.11.7 reverted it without a note in the release notes, let me check the code
<ahasenack> #14101 being the revert
<ahasenack> well, fix and revert
<santa_> ahasenack: commented @ the bug, I will try to find out which commit fixed it, feel free to investigate in parallel, and thanks for your time :)
<ahasenack> santa_: I have a feeling it's not fixed in 4.11.7, did you build that yourself and tested?
<santa_> ahasenack: yes, I did a quick test and the problem goes away
<ahasenack> santa_: because fedora actually patched 4.11.7
<santa_> ahasenack: interesting, maybe it worked by coincidence, let me check again then...
<ahasenack> santa_: https://gitlab.com/samba-team/devel/samba/-/commit/39c910fd9cba3caf7414274b678b9eee33d7e20b is what fedora used in 4.11.7
<wiemk42> Hi, I'm trying to install Ubuntu 20.04 over the network automatically. I have followed https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/netbooting-the-live-server-installer/14510 for this, which works. The focal-live ISO is downloaded over the network in initramfs, then mounted and started. However, I now have the problem that the new autoinstall config seems to be
<wiemk42> ignored when the PXE loader specifies `autoinstall ds=nocloud-net;s=<URL-to-user-data-folder>` as kernel parmeter as shown at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/AutomatedServerInstalls/QuickStart point 6. The system starts with the usual systemd-messages but then `cloud-init: Cloud init v. 20.1-10-g71af48df-0ubuntu5 running 'init-local' at
<wiemk42> <timestamp>` shows up and execution is held until the network is ready (which I think is because the confguration was not loaded). After a long time the ISO starts again but this time the manual installation overview is shown.Could someone explain to me how I have to provide the configuration file on a network boot or how I have to specify it as a
<wiemk42> kernel parameter in the PXELoader?
<santa_> ahasenack: ok I have retested with 4.11.7 and I can see now one file shown as a directory. so indeed, not fixed yet in 4.11.7
<ahasenack> ok, thanks for double checking
#ubuntu-devel 2020-04-28
<mitya57> jbicha: hi, I see you tried to sync python-secretstorage, that is blocked on bug 1861268.
<ubottu> bug 1861268 in jeepney (Ubuntu) "[MIR] jeepney" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1861268
<helio|afk> Seen like python m2crypto is failing to build against 20.04 ssl
<helio|afk> /usr/include/openssl/stack.h:34:16: note: expected âOPENSSL_sk_copyfuncâ {aka âvoid * (*)(const void *)â} but argument is of type âvoid * (*)(void *)â
<helio|afk> 34 | OPENSSL_STACK *OPENSSL_sk_deep_copy(const OPENSSL_STACK *,
<helio|afk> |                ^~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
<helio|afk> SWIG/_m2crypto_wrap.c: In function â_wrap_stack_st_OPENSSL_STRING_stack_setâ:
<helio|afk> SWIG/_m2crypto_wrap.c:10372:19: error: dereferencing pointer to incomplete type âstruct stack_st_OPENSSL_STRINGâ
<jbicha> mitya57: thanks
<theloudspeaker_> cjwatson: I think debootstrap in bionic needs an update. doesn't have the groovy script yet. here: https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/vqJMPx5Bwb/
<theloudspeaker_> (tagged you coz found your name in the focal script.)
<theloudspeaker_> ^^ bdmurray have a look please. (last time I had same problem, I had pinged you)
<cjwatson> theloudspeaker_: Probably does, but I'm not going to have time for that I'm afraid
<cjwatson> theloudspeaker_: Also it looks like there's already one in bionic-proposed.  See https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/debootstrap
<theloudspeaker_> Oh. Yes.
<theloudspeaker_> I will install that one.
<theloudspeaker_> Thanks!
<theloudspeaker_> Also, whats a .udeb file?
<cjwatson> It's a package used as part of debian-installer.  Don't install it on a normal system
<marcustomlinson> bdmurray: hey, could you please hit retry on the armhf build here: http://autopkgtest.ubuntu.com/packages/u/update-manager/groovy/armhf
<marcustomlinson> I don't have the powers
<bdmurray> The_LoudSpeaker: it is in -proposed for bionic and may get released to -updates early.
<bdmurray> marcustomlinson: I've pushed the button
<marcustomlinson> thanks
<The_LoudSpeaker> bdmurray: Yup! cjwatson pointed that to me. Thanks!
<rbasak> ahasenack: #certbot-devel please
<LocutusOfBorg> hello wgrant how do I setup a riscv64 machine please?
<LocutusOfBorg> I'm trying to figure out the vtk7 bd-uninstall sadness (and vlc and ffmpeg and so on)
<wgrant> LocutusOfBorg: http://people.ubuntu.com/~wgrant/riscv64/
<LocutusOfBorg> looks like something not built
<wgrant> There are a couple of bits of incredible fragility
<wgrant> With tight arch-indep deps
<LocutusOfBorg> are you already looking at them?
<wgrant> e.g. iirc if libproxy doesn't build quickly enough gtk3 is uninstallable and libproxy is unbuildable
<wgrant> no, just remember this from the bootstrap
<wgrant> LocutusOfBorg: You should be able to repro this with chdist
<wgrant> No need for an actual riscv64 machine
<wgrant> It's likely a tight arch-indep dep loop, where riscv64 didn't build quite quickly enough
<LocutusOfBorg> jbicha, screwed up libproxy, so meh
<wgrant> May not have been libproxy, I don't remember
<wgrant> But there are a couple of things where arch-indep skew breaks libgtk-3-dev very easily, and that breaks the owrld
<LocutusOfBorg> sure thanks
<wgrant>  libgdk-pixbuf2.0-0 : Depends: libgdk-pixbuf2.0-common (= 2.40.0+dfsg-3) but 2.40.0+dfsg-4 is to be installed
<wgrant> That was the other one, and libwacom can also do it
<Laney> Does anyone have a reprepro with ddeb support lying around?
<pqatsi> Where is the correct place to submit bug report to ZFS support on Focal?
<sarnold> pqatsi: ubuntu-bug zfsutils-linux  should work
<pqatsi> sarnold: thanks!]
<pqatsi> sarnold: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/zfs-linux/+bug/1875767 - It's properlly reported?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1875767 in zfs-linux (Ubuntu) "When operating install/removal with apt, zed floods log and apparently crashes snapshoting" [Undecided,New]
<sarnold> loooking
<sarnold> pqatsi: do you by chance still have the full output in scrollback?
#ubuntu-devel 2020-04-29
<pqatsi> sarnold: Of apt? Yes. I just did not put there because is non related packages (I was testing a pulseaudio extension)
<pqatsi> But yes, if you think its important, I can paste it
<sarnold> pqatsi: please do; that extra context can sometimes really help
<pqatsi> About log, its tons of lines
<pqatsi> sarnold: I'll paste it in bug
<pqatsi> sarnold: done. Thanks!
<sarnold> pqatsi: wonderful, thanks :)
<doko> how can I make how can I make file:///usr/share/doc/python3-doc/html/index.html  work with the chromium snap?
#ubuntu-devel 2020-04-30
<seb128> ddstreet, the n-m/ppc64el fix, do you plan to upload to g-serie? (by SRU rules it should have been there first), also seems like autopkgtests are still unhappy with the SRU on focal :/
<RikMills> doko: same for our toolchain now? https://lintian.debian.org/tags/debian-rules-uses-as-needed-linker-flag.html
<Unit193> Been that way for Ubuntu for much longer.
<cjwatson> natty or thereabouts I think
<cjwatson> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NattyNarwhal/ToolchainTransition   yes
<Unit193> I don't have very lucid memories of it.
<cjwatson> thank you
<cjwatson> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8eXj97stbG8
<RikMills> Unit193: I had thought so, but made me wonder!
<RikMills> just wanted to make sure before I started merging changes where that option was dropped from rules
<Unit193> (I'm sorry)  The unfortunate part for Debian is that buster doesn't, so anything destined for buster-backports...
 * RikMills shrugs
<ddstreet> seb128 yep i'll upload to groovy, i was hoping it would make it to focal before the groovy copy
<ddstreet> seb128 the n-m autopkgtests for focal (and groovy) seem fine?  well, except for i386, but pretty much all the tests are broken for i386 in focal and beyond
<xnox> doko:  that's a very good question. $ snap info --verbose chromium says to open bugs on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/chromium-browser/+bugs?field.tag=snap
<xnox> doko:  i guess snappy / jdstrand might need to be involved to adjust policies
<xnox> doko:  open a bug & also mark it as affecting snappy project?
<jdstrand> doko: oh, zyga actually has a pr up for that
 * jdstrand finds it
<zyga> hmm?
<zyga> jdstrand: the docs stuff?
<jdstrand> doko: https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/8578
<jdstrand> zyga: yeah
<zyga> we are going through failing tests and fixing some infra issues
<zyga> but this passes
<jdstrand> doko: once that is committed, chromium (cc oSoMoN) can plugs it and you should be good to go
<zyga> jdstrand: I'll reach out to advocacy after it lands
<zyga> jdstrand: so that all the browsers get it
<zyga> jdstrand: and that probably circles back to you for declarations
<jdstrand> zyga: sounds like a plan
<jdstrand> yep
<jdstrand> zyga: thanks for doing it btw
<zyga> :)
<oSoMoN> nice one, looking forward to it landing
<doko> jdstrand: thanks, but now I'm facing LP: #1876083
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1876083 in snapd "chromium snap from focal fails DNS lookups, or delays them" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1876083
<jdstrand> doko: I think oSoMoN will do the initial triage and followups and pull me in as needed
<zyga> doko, jdstrand: I had a look but I lack ipv6 (nobody provides that here) and I can only guess
<oSoMoN> doko, could you by any chance test the google chrome deb to see if it's similarly affected?
<xnox> doko:  oSoMoN:  i have google chrome deb as the default browser here. If you need i can test things.
<seb128> ddstreet, sorry you are right, I misread the SRU comment, it's the systemd/ppc64el test failing
<doko> xnox: well, if you see DNS timeouts in chromium, then you can help
<xnox> doko:  are you ipv6 native, with dns6to4? or like is local network dual stack?
<xnox> doko:  can I see `resolvectl`  on paste.canonical.com ?
<doko> xnox: https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/553cMPqx69/
<xnox> that look sgood
<xnox> doko:  do you time out on public network resolutions or things on local network, ie.. stuff in fritz.box domain?
<xnox> also the current dns server is the ipv4 one, instead of ipv6 one. Interesting. (both should return both A & AAAA records, but i wonder if things go weird)
<doko> xnox: no, public ones, and not only lp or ubuntu domains
<xnox> doko:  interesting
<Odd_Bloke> vorlon: We're getting reports that cloud-init is failing to grow disks in groovy, and I think https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/util-linux/2.34-0.1ubuntu3 is what's causing the problem (fdisk is no longer installed in images); what's the intended way for cloud images to end up with fdisk installed?  Could you weigh in on https://bugs.launchpad.net/cloud-images/+bug/1876139?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1876139 in cloud-init "Groovy cloud-images failing during growpart" [Undecided,Incomplete]
<xnox> commented on the bug too. but i don't have an immediate solution
<rharper> the switch of /sbin to a symlink to usr/sbin  breaks dpkg -S `which <command>`  as dpkg-query output does not record both the the install path (/sbin/<pkg>) and the real location (/usr/sbin/<pkg>) ;    what package should I file a bug against?
<sarnold> rharper: in debian it was filed against dpkg https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=134758
<ubottu> Debian bug 134758 in dpkg "dpkg-query: Make -S handle unowned symlinks resolving to owned pathnames" [Wishlist,Open]
<rharper> sarnold: ah, thanks.  looks like I get to hack on dpkg
<Odd_Bloke> xnox: sil2100: We have a cloud-init user who is (still) hitting https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/netplan.io/+bug/1874377 which I believe has just had a better fix land in groovy-proposed.  Are there plans to SRU that?  (If so, do we need a new bug for the SRU process, as that focal task is Fix Released already?)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1874377 in netplan.io (Ubuntu Focal) "Netplan does not connect to Wireless after `sudo netplan apply` until reboot" [High,Fix released]
<Odd_Bloke> (The user is keen to help, so I'd like to point them somewhere they can watch to validate the hopefully-eventual SRU.)
<vorlon> Odd_Bloke: whee; I think we probably need fdisk added to the server seed retroactively
<Odd_Bloke> vorlon: Then it would end up in (lxd) container environments.  Was the original change scoped more specifically at Docker containers?
<vorlon> Odd_Bloke: hmm
<Odd_Bloke> "Hmm" was about where I ended up too.
<vorlon> Odd_Bloke: I think we want it on both bare metal installs and cloud images, by default.  I think we don't particularly care about it being in lxd containers, but it's not completely unusable in lxd, you can still partition things within lxd (even if it's just for loopback files that you might not be able to mount after)
<Odd_Bloke> Yep, I think that's reasonable.
#ubuntu-devel 2020-05-01
<Pinchiukas> Why is there no mini.iso for 20.04/ ;0
<Unit193> Pinchiukas: http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/focal/main/installer-amd64/current/legacy-images/netboot/mini.iso perhaps?  There might be a better link though.
<Pinchiukas> Ah yes. But why is it not on the page though? It links to one from 18.04.
<Pinchiukas> Is this being discontinued or something?
<Unit193> I am not the right person to ask.
<Pinchiukas> I was hoping there would be someone here who could answer.
<rick_h> Pinchiukas:  there's a very long discussion on this in discourse here: https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/netbooting-the-live-server-installer/14510/9 might provide the background you're looking for
<xnox> Pinchiukas:  http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/focal/main/installer-amd64/current/legacy-images/ explains it all =)
<xnox> Pinchiukas:  i ensured the top level page is fancy and tells people what is happening
<dannf> has something changed wrt our riscv64 builders between 13-Apr and now? I noticed some tests are taking about twice as long, wanted to make sure it's not due to a groovy regression
<wgrant> dannf: Which build? I upgraded the qemu, firmware and kernel on Wed
<dannf> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/474425300/buildlog_ubuntu-focal-riscv64.clevis_12-1ubuntu2_BUILDING.txt.gz vs. https://launchpadlibrarian.net/477812265/buildlog_ubuntu-groovy-riscv64.clevis_12-1ubuntu5_BUILDING.txt.gz
<dannf> wgrant: ^
<wgrant> The only major difference is switching from bbl to OpenSBI
<wgrant> It's possible it's doing some bad TLB stuff or something
<dannf> wgrant: first noticed the problem with a build on 30 Apr 19:55:19
<dannf> wgrant: at any rate, not a blocker for me - but i can file a bug somewhere if it'd help
<wgrant> dannf: I don't think a bug is the right avenue.
<wgrant> I'll add it to my todo
<dannf> wgrant: thx!
#ubuntu-devel 2020-05-02
<fo0bar> wgrant: how is qemu-virt-20200422-ubuntu-firmware.bin built?  it contains both OpenSBI and u-boot, but doesn't appear to be either a straight concatenation of them, or the GPT wrapper as with the hifive image
<fo0bar> BTW, things have been pretty stable (at least from a general dev perspective; no idea how well the buildds are handling), thanks!
<wgrant> fo0bar: the firmware image is a GPT image with two partitions: the FSBL, and an OpenSBI fw_payload build with u-boot as the payload. OpenSBI can embed the payload for cases where the firmware can only load one.
<wgrant> But because we control FSBL, it is possible to use OpenSBI's fw_jump, and have u-boot on a separate partition, which makes things a bit more sensible. I prototyped it last week in https://github.com/wgrant/freedom-u540-c000-bootloader/commit/2e133a6d1437d4644d634c632d33793eddfe3564 and it works nicely, but obviously a diverged FSBL isn't ideal
<wgrant> That gets things booting like the suggested qemu args.
<fo0bar> wgrant: so TBC, you're saying both the hifive-unleashed and qemu-virt bins are GPT images assembled as described in your README?  because fdisk recognizes the former as such, but not the latter
<wgrant> I can write up exactly how I built the existing firmware image, but the only slightly odd thing was basically just building OpenSBI with FW_PAYLOAD_PATH=u-boot-dtb.bin and then using fw_payload.bin rather than fw_jump.bin
<fo0bar> ah, I hadn't dived too much into OpenSBI itself and didn't know you could do that
<wgrant> fo0bar: They're both GPT images (though the firmware is raw rather than qcow2 because it's small enough).
<wgrant> But they contain different partitions.
<fo0bar> "wrapped in OpenSBI" makes more sense now
<fo0bar> but huh, odd
<wgrant> It's pretty common for platforms to only support chaining to a single blob
<wgrant> Fortunately in this case the platform firmware is modifiable
<fo0bar> yeah, you need to do something similar with allwinner arm-trusted-firmware -> u-boot chaining IIRC
<fo0bar> https://pastebin.ubuntu.com/p/R8Qfd3KKDY/ <-- anyway, I'm still not sure why qemu-virt-20200422-ubuntu-firmware.bin doesn't look like a GPT table
<wgrant> fo0bar: this is what you get for asking me questions while I'm time-shifted and haven't had coffee yet
<wgrant> I missed that you were talking about the qemu one. That's just a flat OpenSBI+u-boot fw_payload.bin
<wgrant> Because there's no FSBL required
<fo0bar> wgrant: aha.  in my defense, I assumed you were tomorrow-ish like normal, and would get around to responding sometime monday :)
<wgrant> So it's the same as the second partition of the HFU image, except built for qemu and not wrapped in GPT because there only needs to be one
<wgrant> Only diff from master OpenSBI and u-boot there is CONFIG_PREBOOT to get extlinux working by default
<fo0bar> yeah.  the missing magic was, at first glance at the opensbi tree, it didn't look like you could just embed a u-boot payload during build
<fo0bar> wgrant: thanks.  I was thinking of doing a deeper dive, putting together updated images and writing a blog post, but then saw that you were already 99% there with https://people.ubuntu.com/~wgrant/riscv64/ since the initial upload a month ago
<fo0bar> maybe include an example libvirt definition: https://pastebin.ubuntu.com/p/KcGbFD4kw4/
<alkisg> Hi all, https://bugs.launchpad.net/snapd/+bug/1867415 was marked as resolved, but I still see it in the final 20.04 live CDs, I did comment there, am I supposed to reopen it?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1867415 in snapd (Ubuntu) "Hardlinking snaps wastes 400 MB tmpfs RAM in live CDs" [Critical,Fix released]
#ubuntu-devel 2020-05-03
<guiverc> Flavor ISOs for 20.10 are being created, but http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/413/builds does not have anything, however iso.qa does have new daily builds for 20.04? but no ISOs there (http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/408/builds/211606/testcases) - is this related & a config mixup?
<Eickmeyer> guiverc: I hope it's just a config mixup. I can't manually invoke a rebuild, which is kinda crucial right now since I'm trying to switch DEs on Studio. Delays work I have for 24 hours.
<guiverc> Thanks Eickmeyer, not an issue & I was ignoring it (little to test except our own gorilla config), but another person LeoK noticed which caused me to chase up
<Eickmeyer> guiverc: We probably won't know until Monday, tbh. :/
<guiverc> Not a problem, but thanks Eickmeyer
<Eickmeyer> guiverc: yw
<guiverc> good luck with your switching-DEs & more critical work Eickmeyer anyway
<Eickmeyer> guiverc: Heh, thanks. :)
<ladyfriday> every time I try to log into launchpad I get an "Oops!" page suggesting I report a bug... Which I can't do because I can't log in - where do I need to go to get this fixed (so I can file the original bug I wanted to file...)
<wgrant> ladyfriday: #launchpad is a better channel, but the support link on the bottom of each Launchpad page (https://launchpad.net/feedback) will send you in the right direction.
<ladyfriday> interestingly that link isn't on the error page ;)
<ladyfriday> thanks
<alkisg> Heh, strange filename...  libklibc:amd64: /lib/klibc-xcgdUApi-P9SoPhW_fi5gXfvWpw.so
