#ubuntu-mobile 2008-02-18
<dholbach> good morning
<dholbach> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDeveloperWeek about to start in 25 minutes in #ubuntu-classroom
<osantana> agoliveira: did you see your picture in Info magazine? :)
<agoliveira> osantana: Sure did :)
<agoliveira> osantana: Am I cute or what?
<osantana> humm... nope :)
<agoliveira> osantana: Bah, you just can't apreciate beauty...
<smagoun_> StevenK: Recent Q1 images don't have network + have the following in xsession-errors. Are you looking at the problem?
<smagoun_> ** (nm-applet:5005): WARNING **: <WARN>  nma_dbus_init(): could not acquire its service.  dbus_bus_acquire_service() says: 'Connection ":1.13" is not allowed to own the service "org.freedesktop.NetworkManagerInfo" due to security policies in the configuration file'
#ubuntu-mobile 2008-02-19
<dholbach> good morning
<bigon> Hi, is there again a general FF exeption for telepathy packages?
<Mithrandir> bigon: I don't believe so, but it should be possible to grant exceptions if we need them?
<bigon> it was scottk who was asking for telepathy-salut actually
<Mithrandir> I'm happy with us pulling in good new releases from upstream, but that requires somebody to actually do the QA on them
<smagoun> Looks like there's a new LUM that supersedes what's in the PPA. This breaks Menlow systems, since the latest PSB patches aren't in the new LUM. I'm building a new LUM for the PPA now.
<amitk> smagoun: who uploaded it?
<smagoun> amitk: Tim Gardner, maybe?
<smagoun> It looks like Jay's PSB patches went into the Hardy LUM tree just after 2.6.24-8.13 went out
<amitk> smagoun: I misread your first statement. It makes sense now. Yes there is a new LUM in Hardy. And yes, uploading it to the PPA will fix the problem.
<amitk> smagoun: are the x drivers changes in hardy yet?
<amitk> *X driver
<crevette> hello there
<crevette> I packaged obex-data-server and now it is uploaded to the archives; would it be possible to make bluez-gnome depends on it ?
<dholbach> Ubuntu Development Week is up and running in #ubuntu-classroom!
<smagoun> amitk: sorry for the delay in getting back to you. I don't think the X driver changes are in Hardy yet, that is a question for bryce.
<amitk> smagoun: i noticed you haven't uploaded LUM yet, need help?
<smagoun> amitk: I had a call. I'm back working on it now; I'll let you know if I need anything. Thanks!
<smagoun> amitk: I just realized I don't have commit access to kernel.u.c, so I'll need someone to upload to the hardy-ume-lum tree when the time comes.
<amitk> smagoun: i can do that, if you pass me the changesets
<smagoun> amitk: ok, thanks.
<smagoun> amitk: I posted a diff of the hardy lum-->PPA lum: http://people.ubuntu.com/~smagoun/hardy-ume-lum-2.6.24-8.13-update.patch
<smagoun> amitk: If you'd prefer another format, please let me know
<amitk> smagoun: 'git format-patch -o /tmp origin'  please?
<smagoun> amitk: Would you prefer I email those patches or post them to people.u.c?
<amitk> smagoun: how many are they?
<smagoun> amitk: 12
<amitk> smagoun: just attach them in an email to me
<smagoun> amitk: will do. Thanks for your help on this.
<amitk> smagoun: np, thanks for taking care of lum
<bspencer> launchpad question.  When creating a bug, can I add multiple attachments to it at the same time?  (e.g. with some delimeter ";" ? )
#ubuntu-mobile 2008-02-20
<crevette> hello 
<dholbach> good morning
<smagoun> amitk: have you talked to inuka_desk about getting the Beta 7 PSB drivers into Hardy or the PPA?
<amitk> smagoun: not yet. It only got out last evening AFAIK
<amitk> smagoun: does it have something that you need very urgently?
<smagoun> amitk: it's not urgent, but we don't want to wait 2 weeks. I'm more interested in making sure that the kernel + userspace bits go in at the same time.
<amitk> smagoun: then I propose we wait until next week when I am in lexington and bryce has had a chance to look at the userspace bits too
<smagoun> amitk: works for me
<slytherin> Any core devels form bluetooth team here?
<slytherin> Mithrandir: Can you please take a look at the .diff.gz attached to bug 190405 when you get time?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 190405 in bluez-gnome "please upgrade bluez-gnome to 0.18 " [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/190405
<crevette> I think bluez-gnome should even upgrade to 0.20
<crevette> (I'm the guy who opened the bug)
<crevette> 0.21 even
<crevette> I think ther a set of package to upgrade to have a nice stack, upgrade gnome-bluetooth to 0.11, obex-data-server to 0.2.0 and bluez-gnome to 0.21
<crevette> I need to ask a MIR for obex-data-server
<slytherin> crevette: Well, I am the one who attached the .diff.gz. :-)
<crevette> ah yeah
<crevette> \./
<slytherin> crevette: Have you actually tested my .diff.gz. It will be good if more number of eyes go through it.
<crevette> slytherin: did you look at the fedora patches ?
<slytherin> crevette: No. DO they have 0.21?
<crevette> slytherin: no I didn't had time, I'm working full-time and I'm only getting free time on week-ends something
<crevette> sometime
<slytherin> Ok. No problem
<crevette> let me find 
<crevette> they have a bunch of patches for bluetooth stack, there have Bastien Nocera who taking care of the bluetooth stack on fedora / rh
<crevette> http://cvs.fedoraproject.org/viewcvs/rpms/bluez-gnome/devel/
<crevette> I don't know what's the use of http://cvs.fedoraproject.org/viewcvs/rpms/bluez-gnome/devel/main.c?rev=1.2&view=log
<slytherin> crevette: One of the patch is not relevant. The other looks like not very much useful. I didn't face the issue it seems to fix
<crevette> I'm going to test your diff
<crevette> actually I package 0.21 on my own few days ago
<crevette> :)
<crevette> I didn't add time to test it and push
<crevette> but I 'm not a real packager, obex-data-server was only my 2nd package
<crevette> :)
<slytherin> crevette: Does it matter. I prefer preparing/testing debdiffs to packaging from scratch. :-)
<dholbach> UBUNTU DEVELOPER WEEK Session starting in #ubuntu-classroom in 15 minutes!
<lool> mjg59: I had a chat about pimlico with upstream and was wondering what your opinon on the current status of contacts-snapshot / contacts/hildo is?
<lool> mjg59: I'm interested in any type of information on the topic, but one particular question I have in mind is what Ubuntu carries which upstream doesn't (the package has a large-ish .diff but seemingly with upstreamish chunks)
<mjg59> We have a version that works with Hildon
<mjg59> Upstream doesn't :)
<mjg59> I need to tidy the diff up and push it to upstream
<lool> mjg59: That would be excellent; upstream told me that libhito went forward with the openmoko port, but that hildon and vanilla were quite unmaintained
<WeRReD> I have a windows mobile PDA, will it be possible for me to migrate to Ubuntu Mobile? 
<mjg59> WeRReD: No
<WeRReD> jg59: Thanks for a quick answer :) May I ask why? 
<mjg59> Most basically, because it'll have an ARM processor and we don't have an ARM port
<mjg59> And you'd need to port the Linux kernel to your hardware
<WeRReD> oh I see... Thanks a lot
<WeRReD> do you plan to create an ARM port for the system someday? 
<mjg59> It's a possibility, but there are very few Windows Mobile devices with a working Linux kernel port
<mjg59> And that's a great deal of work
<WeRReD> yeah, I understand
<WeRReD> thanks a lot!
<suihkulokki> mjg59: ehm, there is quite a few working arm devices with a linux port..
<bspencer> bfiller, Mithrandir  am I supposed to upload a new mobile-basic-flash to the hardy ppa every release?
<bspencer> like the other apps?
<bspencer> StevenK, you around?
<bspencer> StevenK, just wondering how we can help with moko.  We could just upload the one that is working for us now until something better arrives
<bspencer> then we could update the media app
<bfiller> bspencer, I believe so
<bspencer> bfiller, ok, just wasn't sure how it might conflict with you
<bspencer> I'll do it
<bfiller> bspencer, thanks for checking
<tremolux> bspencer_: howdy Bob, I wanted to check in to see if you still have a plan to push the latest galculator fixes on moblin.org to the mobile PPA?
<tremolux> bspencer_: I have a small fix to add, so once it's up there I can add it
<bspencer_> tremolux, yes, very soon
<bspencer_> let me ping the person I asked about it 
<bspencer_> s/asked about/asked to do
<tremolux> bspencer_: thx!
#ubuntu-mobile 2008-02-21
<dholbach> good morning
<slytherin> crevette: Good work on MIR. :-)
<crevette> ah
<crevette> hello
<crevette> :)
 * crevette needs to prepare its backpack for FOSDEM
<crevette> thanks
<crevette> slytherin: a I'll be away from computer for one week, could you manage to ask upload of gnome-bluetooth 0.11 ?
<slytherin> crevette: First we need to get obex-data-sever in main and bluez-gnome 0.21 in. :-)
<crevette> yep
<crevette> perhaps all will be done in less than 2 days, who knowns ?
<crevette> :)
<slytherin> crevette: I will try to handle it in your absense.
<lool> crevette: Ah you're going to FOSDEM, perhaps we'll come across
<crevette> youp I hope, do you know what I look alike ?
<lool> I don't
<slytherin> crevette: Looks like we were bit late with all the process. Alpha 5 is scheduled on 21st so those changes won't bee accepted as of now.
<Fenario> amanda and sg: are you planning on calling me now?
<lool> I was blinking at Â« In an interview with LinuxDevices, MontaVista's new president and CEO Russell "Rusty" Harris said the company ... Â»
<repete> Anyone know the login credentials for the Intel wiki?
<repete> wrong window....
 * repete kicks xchat
<agoliveira> lool: Rusty is now Montavista's CEO? That's cool :)
<bigon> tfheen: hi could you add the telepathy team to the bug bugcontact of telepathy-glib and telepathy-haze package
<bigon> plz
<Mithrandir> bigon: you should talk to me, not tfheen. :-)
<bigon> oh https://edge.launchpad.net/~telepathy says thath tfheen is the team owner
<agoliveira> Mithrandir: Are you going tell him about your personas? :P
<lool> bigon: (/whois Mithrandir :)
<bigon> damm :p
<Mithrandir> bigon: yes, tfheen is my other IRC client.  (Look at the away message. :-)
<suihkulokki> people here going to FOSDEM?
<lool> suihkulokki: I am
<Mithrandir> bigon: anyway, added.
<bigon> thx
<agoliveira> suihkulokki: I can only dream about it :(
<slytherin> Mithrandir: Can you please look at FFE for bluez-gnome 0.21 and let me know if you have any questions?
<Mithrandir> slytherin: isn't that blocked on obex-data-server in main first?
<slytherin> Mithrandir: yes, I just wanted to have a review of .diff.gz. :-) And yes there is also a bug for MIR for obex-data-server.
<Mithrandir> slytherin: oh, I'll be happy to review the diff, but I can't approve the exception before we have o-d-s in main
<Mithrandir> slytherin: bug #?
<bigon> Mithrandir: could you also see the FFE for tp-glib?
<slytherin> bug 190405 for FFE and bug 193816 for MIR.
<bigon> bug #193979 for tp-glib
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 193979 in telepathy-glib "Please sync telepathy-glib 0.7.3-1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/193979
<slytherin> bug #190405 for FFE, bug #193816 for MIR.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 190405 in bluez-gnome "[FFE] please upgrade bluez-gnome to 0.21" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/190405
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 193816 in obex-data-server "Main Inclusion Request" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/193816
<Mithrandir> hm, I think we want 0.2 of o-d-s too, don't we?
<Mithrandir> slytherin: there's a bug in how prep_mv_conffile is being called, it's being called without a package name
<Mithrandir> (in the preinst)
<Mithrandir> slytherin: also, doesn't browsing work now?  If so, why is it disabled?
<slytherin> Mithrandir: Browsing doesn't work as of now. The backend is not finished in gvfs, AFAIK.
<Mithrandir> hm, not even with o-d-s?
<agoliveira> asac: Hi. Are you aware if the changes you've done in firefox are breaking openoffice builds? At least my builds on PPA are looking for firefox-xpcom and can't find it anymore.
<slytherin> Mithrandir: With o-d-s it is not browsing, it is usual ftp transfers.
<Mithrandir> slytherin: ah
<Mithrandir> slytherin: why does it still depend on gnome-vfs-obexftp then?
<slytherin> Mithrandir: In the hope that it will be fixed soon, considering that a obex patch is present for gvfs in gnome bugzilla. :-)
<Mithrandir> apart from that, it looks fine to me
<slytherin> Mithrandir: Any more questions? :-)
<Mithrandir> slytherin: nope
<Mithrandir> bigon: looks fine to me, though sispoty seems to want a diff of the symbol file
<slytherin> Mithrandir: There have been some api changes in o-d-s 0.2 and I am not sure if bluez-gnome 0.21 has accomodated those changes. So I want to wait first to get o-d-s in main and FFE for bluez-gnome. Then we can think of upgrades.
<Mithrandir> slytherin: ok
<Mithrandir> I thought it needed 0.2, but I haven't tested it myself
<bigon> Mithrandir: I've added the diff for exported symbols
<slytherin> Mithrandir: By the way, does the MIR bug need to marked confirmed?
<Mithrandir> slytherin: what does the wiki page documenting the process say?
<asac> agoliveira: right ... calc is working on that and afaik he already has a patch for this specific issue.
<agoliveira> asac: Ah, great. I'll poke him again later when he shows up. Thanks.
<asac> but i think he didn't upload yet, because he wanted to get other things done first. maybe ping him
<slytherin> Mithrandir: Doesn't say anything about confirming. I will leave it as it
<agoliveira> asac: Yep. Just checked out the latest source and it's the same I already have. I'll flush-ping him later :)
<asac> agoliveira: whip him hard :-D
<agoliveira> asac: bad, bad, calc!
<smagoun> amitk: Can I use apt-get source to get the exact kernel installed on a given machine? I'm using Hardy+PPA, 'apt-get source linux-image-2.6.24-8-lpia' pulls the source for 2.6.24-9.15.
<smagoun> amitk: 'apt-get source linux-image-2.6.24-8-lpia=2.6.24-8.14' claims source isn't available
<smagoun> amitk: and the latest linux-source package is 2.6.24-8.8
<amitk> smagoun: something like this will get you the exact source: dget http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/restricted/l/linux-restricted-modules-2.6.24/linux-restricted-modules-2.6.24_2.6.24.7-7.17.dsc;
<amitk> adapt for kernel version, url, etc.
<amitk> Above command followed by 'dpkg-source -x *.dsc'
<smagoun> amitk: Thanks, I'll take that approach. I have to script a source download, I was hoping apt-get source could save me some time. 
<lool> amitk: dget -x to extract after get ;)
<lool> smagoun: I have an ugly "list-debs" thingy to list .dsc URLs for me; it's especially useful when I'm under Ubuntu looking for Debian packages or vice-versa
<amitk> lool: ummm.. right :)
<lool> smagoun: It's really ugly, throw a nicer one at me if you write one ;) http://people.dooz.org/~lool/debian/list-debs
<amitk> lool: man page for dget says that it runs dpkg-source -x
<smagoun> lool: thanks, I'll take a look.
<smagoun> amitk: why isn't the linux-source package updated (automatically?) at the same time as the kernel?
<amitk> smagoun: The package name isn't linux-source anymore - that was in gutsy, it is linux-<vers> now IIRC
<lool> amitk: Yes, I just wanted you to save the dpkg-source -x call
<amitk> and it should be automatically updated, this is all handled internally by the debian build and archive system
<amitk> lool: I saved one fork() or spawn() :-p
<lool> But how many keyboard interrupts, hmm?
<smagoun> amitk: ah, ok. There's a linux-source and a linux-source-<ver>. I only saw the metapackage
<dholbach> Ubuntu Developer Week is going on, join #ubuntu-classroom
 * rustyl starts creating a fresh hardy-ppa target
 * lool fears
 * GrueMaster hears a dog barking in the lonely distance....
<davidm> About to start meeting
<davidm> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 16:59. The chair is davidm.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<davidm> Good day everyone, 
<rustyl> morning
<davidm> Agenda is at: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded/Meeting/20080221
<davidm> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded/Meeting/20080221
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded/Meeting/20080221 
<davidm> Has anyone seen ChickenCutlass?
<bfiller> still on holiday
<davidm> OK I'll postpone his action until next week then
<davidm> [topic] cwong1 to to look into languages pack differences between midbrowser and firefox and report back.
<MootBot> New Topic:  cwong1 to to look into languages pack differences between midbrowser and firefox and report back. 
<cwong1> Here is what I find out:
<cwong1> Firefox lang pack is installed as an extension.
<cwong1> We need to modify the install.rdf file in order for it to be able to install
<cwong1> also, we have to add more stuff to the package.
<cwong1> We need to translate the strings used by the Grabanddrag extension and add to the package.
<cwong1> So the bottom line is we can just use the fireox's lang pack asis.
<cwong1> s/can/can't/
<cwong1> I will attempt to create a lang pack and try it and see if it works.  
<kyleN> it might be helpful is someone who really knows the ubuntu lang pack mechanisms, including those used with Moz, could help figure out a solution here.  
<kyleN> s /is/if/
<davidm> cwong1, will you have time to test this by next week?
<cwong1> yes.
<davidm> cwong1, can you take an action to report back next week with results then?
<cwong1> ok 
<cwong1> kyleN: is Asac responsible for the ubuntu lang pack?
<kyleN> cwong1: I am not sure, but I believe at least he is knowledgable
<davidm> [action] cwong1, attempt to create an lang pack to report back next week with results.
<MootBot> ACTION received:  cwong1, attempt to create an lang pack to report back next week with results. 
<asac> cwong1: i am certainly not responsible to translate them ;)
<cwong1> accept
<cwong1> :)
<kyleN> cwong1: right, we need a solution that enables translation too
<kyleN> via luanchpad, like everything else
<asac> bad news: launchpad team gave me heads up 2 days ago, that we won't have xpi export for hardy
<cwong1> K
<Mithrandir> well, firefox isn't translated through LP, so that's blocked on LP supporting that.
<asac> i will still try to get something going, but i cannot tell how likely this is to succeed
<lool> asac: Oh I just talked with Danilo about it and he said it was almost finished but not finished yet
<lool> I thought it would be done for hardy :-(
<asac> lool: me too ... but 2 days ago things went different. i am now looking if i can hack something that allows us to map .po files to firefox translations 
<asac> as launchpad supports import of .xpi, but no export
<asac> but i cannot tell yet if that will work.
<lool> asac: That's what I was told to do for hildon msgids
<kyleN> asac. we may face the same issue with hildon
<asac> maye someone can help out on eventual coding required to do this?
<lool> asac: I'd suggest asking calc or looking at oo.o
<asac> i would figure out the procedure (if possible at all), but help in code would be appreciated
<lool> asac: As I was told it's doing this already
<asac> lool: for the concept yes. but coding, testing all cases et al would require a bunch of work, i am not sure i can handle alone for hardy
<lool> asac: Because of the XPI format itself?
<asac> yes ... its definitly not trivial. i will give heads up next week. have to talk to launchpad folks (and calc) and so on
<kyleN> davidm: since translating hildon  seems like a requirement for mobile, can you and patm talk about resources to help with this coding?
<lool> asac: Let's give you action to report your success or call for help for next week then?
<asac> yes please
<lool> kyleN: It's different with Hildon, it's PO
<kyleN> I though hildon also uses XPI
<asac> really?
<kyleN> some sort of po/xpi hybrid
<asac> that would be news ;)
<lool> [action] (asac) report on code to create XPI from LP exports or look around for help to complete this
<agoliveira> Ouch...
<asac> lool: thanks
<davidm> [action] (asac) report on code to create XPI from LP exports or look around for help to complete this and report back next week.
<MootBot> ACTION received:  (asac) report on code to create XPI from LP exports or look around for help to complete this and report back next week. 
<lool> Thanks
<asac> well ... i hoped that some lead wold look around for help :)
<asac> davidm: thanks. we can look for help if i figured the theory
<lool> kyleN: Hildon uses string ids, but XPIs?!
 * asac over and out
<lool> kyleN: Perhaps we can discuss this after the meeting
<davidm> asac, that works, lets take that off line then.
<kyleN> i lool, I could be wrong, but someone mentioned that along the way
<davidm> OK next topic?
<kyleN> sure
<lool> kyleN: Bring it up with me after the meeting then, please :)
<davidm> [topic] kyleN to follow up with ToddBrandt offline on control panel i18n status.
<MootBot> New Topic:  kyleN to follow up with ToddBrandt offline on control panel i18n status. 
<kyleN> ToddBrandt said cotrol panels implement gettext but it is "not switched on"
<kyleN> not sue what that means really, but can it be "switched on"?
<lool> ToddBrandt: Are you by chance around to immediately comment?
<davidm> anyone at Intel near when ToddBrandt is?
<rustyl> well, adding a mo file with fake translations to the right local directory will test this real quick
<mawhalen> looking
<davidm> mawhalen, thanks.
<lool> I see _() calls all around the place, but no po/
<rustyl> i know that no translations have been created
<lool> No POT either
<rustyl> hmm... the applets run inside the hildon-desktop process
<rustyl> so if hildon-desktop is not properly initially gettext (setting local and all that jazz), then the gettext calls will not pick anything up
<rustyl> maybe that is what ToddBrandt is talking about?
<lool> I could get some pot file generated by inserting intltoo m4 macros and intltoolizing + intlool-updating --port
<lool> rustyl: That would be a good explanation; did you discuss options around this already?
<lool> Is it reasonnable to assign to ToddBrandt to generate proper templates in moblin-applets and perhaps tell us how he thinks we should handle gettext domain setting?
<rustyl> i haven't thought about it... just thinking on my feet right now
<rustyl> are the template files normally checked into the source tree?
<lool> Is ToddBrandt around this week to give us more info on what's need to be done or to do it?
<rustyl> i normally just create them myself
<rustyl> yes, he is around
<kyleN> I would like to gently suggest that Moblin needs to take an action to manage proper i18n implementations in all their code, to completion.
<lool> rustyl: Usually there are proper releases with tarballs where we have these; po files are usually commited, I dont' think pot are
<davidm> We have a lot to cover and we are kind of stuck here without ToddBrand, can we assign ToddBrandt an action to look into this?
<rustyl> lool, that's what i thought... and a po file is a translation which we will not be doing
<agoliveira> davidm: Of course, he's not here to deny :P
<lool> rustyl: But is there anything in place yet to just build templates?
<rustyl> lool, beyond the inttool stuff?  
<lool> rustyl: ATM, you can't run intltool-update --pot; I had to hack intltool in quickly
<lool> Even if the file isn't committed because it's "generated", the rules to build it must be checked in
<rustyl> ok, you mean Makefile rules?
<lool> Yes, and configure.in checks etc.
<lool> rustyl: For example, running intltoolize in autogen.sh, adding IT_PROG_INTLTOOL to configure.in, creating a po/ etc.
<rustyl> what would be nice is a very clear definition on what Ubuntu expects for a properly internationalized (but not localized) application
<kyleN> rustyl: absolutely. that would help
<lool> Perhaps we can defer to the GNOME definition since we're building on Hildon which builds on GMAE
<rustyl> if we can get that definition, then we can log a bug for each moblin project and just manage the bug database to fix all the projects
<rustyl> for example... what magic do i need to do in my package so that launchpad is able to handle translations?
<lool> AIUI, call intlool-update from po/ during the build
<lool> This requires a PO-based/gettext-based package
<lool> But I think this is a bit far reaching for the meeting
<lool> rustyl: Would this help? http://live.gnome.org/TranslationProject/DevGuidelines/Localize using gettext and intltool
 * rustyl looks at the page
<lool> There are many resources at http://live.gnome.org/TranslationProject
<davidm> [link] http://live.gnome.org/TranslationProject/DevGuidelines/Localize
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://live.gnome.org/TranslationProject/DevGuidelines/Localize 
<bspencer_> "This page does not exist.."?
<davidm> [link] http://live.gnome.org/TranslationProject/DevGuidelines/Localize
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://live.gnome.org/TranslationProject/DevGuidelines/Localize 
<bspencer_> http://live.gnome.org/TranslationProject/DevGuidelines    
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://live.gnome.org/TranslationProject/DevGuidelines     
<lool> You need the rest + using gettext and intltool
<kyleN> yes, these links have lots of info. but can it be boiled down for Moblin and others to the five or so things you need to do?
<lool> [link] http://live.gnome.org/TranslationProject/DevGuidelines/Localize using gettext and intltool
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://live.gnome.org/TranslationProject/DevGuidelines/Localize using gettext and intltool 
<lool> kyleN: Perhaps someone can volunteer to sum the executive steps
<lool> +up
<bspencer_> http://live.gnome.org/TranslationProject/DevGuidelines/Localize%20using%20gettext%20and%20intltool
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://live.gnome.org/TranslationProject/DevGuidelines/Localize%20using%20gettext%20and%20intltool 
<lool> I think it's easy enough for people writing modules to look how other modules in the GMAE stack (not the Hildon one) are doing it
<lool> bspencer_: Thanks; I was too lazy to fix the spaces :)
<bspencer_> lool, I'm less confused :)
<lool> rustyl: So would this be enough resources to look into other GNOME modules and at the GNOME wiki to complete the i18n support in moblin-applets?
<ToddBrandt> davidm: I'm here, sorry
<lool> ToddBrandt: Cool; we were discussing what's missing from the moblin-applets source to complete i18n infrastructure
<ToddBrandt> oh ok
<rustyl> what i worry about is if all the links describe a range of many many things that could be done,  but there is some subset that is "required" in order for this team to not be disapointed
<kyleN> lool, I will sum the executive steps if you will review them before I post them
<davidm> kyleN, excellent, lool this OK with you?
<lool> kyleN: SOunds like a deal
<kyleN> and perhaps assist me with your oceanic knowledge as I pull this together
<rustyl> BTW, we still have an issue with moblin-applets and the mobile-basic-flash
<lool> rustyl, ToddBrandt: ok with you?
<kyleN> lool, can we then meet soon, szy tomorrow, to discuss/kick this off?
<ToddBrandt> lool: The gnome-control-center source (which mobli-applets is essentially a fork of) had complete internationalization support. I pulled some of it out but I can pull it back over again
<davidm> [action] kyleN  will sum the executive steps for i18n for GMA and lool to review them before posting.
<MootBot> ACTION received:  kyleN  will sum the executive steps for i18n for GMA and lool to review them before posting. 
<ToddBrandt> sounds good
<lool> kyleN: Yes, but not too late as I'm leaving for FOSDEM in my afternoon; rather after the meeting would be bestr
<kyleN> ok
<lool> ToddBrandt: That would be nice; please on your side continue i18nizing until we can actually import a pot into launchpad; is that possible?
<rustyl> lool, kyleN, ToddBrandt: don't forget... moblin-applets is executing inside the hildon-desktop
<rustyl> and hildon-desktop has it's own wacky way of doing translations, right?
<kyleN> rustyl: I am not sure what the consequences are of that fact
<lool> rustyl: Even if it does, we need the infrastructure to translate its strings; this will involve pot / po files
<kyleN> hildon uses po files, but non-english message ids, which is weird. there may be other weirdnesses
<Mithrandir> rustyl: that shouldn't matter, it only complicates translations.
<kyleN> i wonder whether hildon itself should just be made fully gettext compliant
<ToddBrandt> lool: yes, I'll bring it all back in will rearrange the info to align with the text from the very latest moblin-applets
<rustyl> ok, so hildon-desktop is doing the right thing... no problem then
<davidm> ToddBrandt, how long do you think that will take?
<lool> Good; davidm will [action] this and we can move on
<kyleN> afterall, hildon is now in gnome and gnome is gettext
<ToddBrandt> davidm: if I make it top priority, I'll have it ready by end of day tomorrow
<davidm> ToddBrandt, so an action for next week is OK then?
<ToddBrandt> davidm: yes
<davidm> [action] ToddBrandt to continue building i18n infrastucture to match the gnome-control-center one by next week.
<MootBot> ACTION received:  ToddBrandt to continue building i18n infrastucture to match the gnome-control-center one by next week. 
<davidm> OK I think we can move on now.
<davidm> [topic] Mithrandir and lool to determine what is the best solution for "the probability that there will be significant user interface string changes post freeze that will need to be translated"
<MootBot> New Topic:  Mithrandir and lool to determine what is the best solution for "the probability that there will be significant user interface string changes post freeze that will need to be translated" 
<Mithrandir> lool: feel like explaining it all to people?
<lool> I discussed this with Rosetta people and Tollef; most technical bits are clearer now, and if we really want to, we can setup a new Launchpad project to have our own translation imports and exports
<kyleN> oooh
<lool> It would involve a lot of manual work as we would need to upload source for each package, translate, and then upload the resulting translations
<lool> I understand we would be able to upload one big translation pack with all our translated strings from our forked source packages
<lool> We can't easily get a similar setup for PPA uploads as for Ubuntu uploads
<lool> In general, it's best to continue using regular infrastructure until the string/ui freeze (we've almost reached it unfortunately)
<lool> So the best thing to do is to keep the number of string changes to an absolute minimum
<lool> A very minimalistic solution which we could use instead is to ship translations in the packages themselves (as GNOME does) for the packages where we change strings
<lool> The first solution requires writing glue and doing many uploads
<lool> I've sent detailed notes on this topic to Kyle; it depends a lot on the amount of changes we target
<kyleN> my guess is the minimilistic solution, but I wonder if for Ibex release we might fix this?
<lool> Is any of the above unclear?
<lool> kyleN: To "fix" it the best thing to do is to align with the Ubuntu release schedule
<davidm> Can we post the  detailed notes on the ubuntu wiki?
<lool> davidm: It's from an email exchange, but I can reformat it for the wiki
<kyleN> lool, do you think standard lang packs are good for mobile, or are they too big?
<lool> (I'll also check if anything is confidential, but I don't think so)
<davidm> hopefully with the next go around we can do more planning at the UDS so we come closer to the Ibex release schedule.
<lool> kyleN: We need lang packs for our seed I think
<davidm> lool, thanks
<kyleN> lool, so that's the kind of "fix" I was talking about
<lool> kyleN: I didn't understand this is what we had to look up
<bfiller> lool: so we don't currently have language packs specific for the mobile build?
<davidm> [lool] to  reformat detailed notes user interface string changes post freeze and post to Ubuntu wiki.
<davidm> [action] lool to  reformat detailed notes user interface string changes post freeze and post to Ubuntu wiki.
<MootBot> ACTION received:  lool to  reformat detailed notes user interface string changes post freeze and post to Ubuntu wiki. 
<lool> I don't think so
<kyleN> lool, there are a lot of issues here, and lang pack size/mobile specific lang packs is one of them
<lool> Just like there's no Xfce lang pack
<lool> But there's a KDE one
<bfiller> lool: what kind of work is involved with making mobile specific packs?
<lool> I don't know; I suspect there's a big script running on the tarballs generated from LP
<kyleN> langpack-o-matic script, I think
<davidm> Folks we are runnig out of time here can we take this conversation to email?
<lool> I would suspect we need to configure the seed into the LP Ubuntu export to get tarballs for the mobile seed, then update the rules
<bfiller> lool: thanks, that makes sense
<lool> Do I need to do research on this as well?
<lool> (Which naturally eats my time not doing something else ;-)
<davidm> lool, I think someone needs to do it.  does it have to be you?
<bfiller> lool: would be appreciated. kyleN can you help out as well?
<kyleN> I can help out
<lool> I gained most knowledge about language packs recently, so I'm not deeply competent, but it could be me
<davidm> [action] lool kyleN to research if need to configure the seed into the LP Ubuntu export to get tarballs for the mobile seed, then update the rules
<MootBot> ACTION received:  lool kyleN to research if need to configure the seed into the LP Ubuntu export to get tarballs for the mobile seed, then update the rules 
<lool> Let's assign it to me + kyleN here as well then
<davidm> OK next topic
<davidm> [topic] Mithrandir to split up remaining Hildon packages that need to be upgraded amongst everybody except people who claim they are busy with other things.
<MootBot> New Topic:  Mithrandir to split up remaining Hildon packages that need to be upgraded amongst everybody except people who claim they are busy with other things. 
<davidm> Mithrandir, ?
<Mithrandir> I've failed to do that; Somebody said lool had a page of all the components and their statuses, but he wasn't around when I asked him so it fell through.
<Mithrandir> lool: do you have that URL?
<lool> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded/Hildon2.0 ?
<bfiller> Mithrandir: I posted it to the email list. It's on the wiki:https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded/Hildon2.0
<Mithrandir> ah, thanks.
<Mithrandir> davidm: please just give me the action item again and I'll get it done before the next meeting.
<davidm> OK 
<davidm> [action] Mithrandir to split up remaining Hildon packages that need to be upgraded amongst everybody except people who claim they are busy with other things. (carryover)
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Mithrandir to split up remaining Hildon packages that need to be upgraded amongst everybody except people who claim they are busy with other things. (carryover) 
<davidm> [topic] Mithrandir to nag about the import; we have it set up already but it's just in testing.
<MootBot> New Topic:  Mithrandir to nag about the import; we have it set up already but it's just in testing. 
<Mithrandir> that's set up
<Mithrandir> https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~vcs-imports/libmokoui2/trunk has an import now, so Frank should be able to work from that import using bzr.
<lool> Can someone relay this to Frank?
<lool> bspencer_: ^^^ ?
<rustyl> FYI: since I went ahead and uploaded the latest moko package from moblin to unblock my uploading of other moblin packages
<Mithrandir> probably good if StevenK does it, as he's been helping out already.
<bspencer_> lool, es
<rustyl>  /since//
<bspencer_> y
<lool> bspencer_: Thanks
<davidm> new topic?
<bspencer_> davidm, hold
<bspencer_> is StevenK here?
<davidm> No, he is not currently
<agoliveira> bspencer_: I doubt it :)
<bspencer_> smagoun, you noted rusty's comment?
<rustyl> i have a new topic
<davidm> rustyl, please add it to the wiki page
<smagoun> bspencer_: I'm 'smagoun', not 'StevenK' :)
<kyleN> rustyl: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded/Meeting/20080221
<bspencer_> smagoun, yes, just noting since you were the one who rolled back mobile-media before
<bspencer_> should work now, but we have our own moko in the PPA, not the one Mithrandir mentioned
<bspencer_> ok, that's all.
<bspencer_> davidm, unhold
<davidm> OK, next topic 
<smagoun> bspencer_: ah, gotcha. As long as I can build a working image from the PPA I'm happy
<bspencer_> yep
<rustyl> i just want to ask about the status of fixing the dbus session while running a hardy ppa target in Xephyr
<davidm> [topic] (lool) UDS Prague attendance (FOSSCamp in particular)
<MootBot> New Topic:  (lool) UDS Prague attendance (FOSSCamp in particular) 
<rustyl> do i need to update the wiki for that?
<davidm> rustyl, yes
<rustyl> ok, what section?
<lool> I was wondering who was planning to attend UDS (and FOSSCamp)
<bspencer_> rustyl,  end of Current Items
<davidm> at the bottom of Current Items
<davidm> On the Intel side do you have plans yet?
<lool> At the moment, I'm planning to only attend UDS; if folks on this chan or Intel folks in particular know they will come, could they please build a list?
<davidm> On our side Mobile team is attending UDS, Stevenk and I FOSSCamp
<davidm> I don't know about the MBU team yet
<lool> As always, the more people can come, the more things we can discuss in a fast and constructive way, and the more things we can get done!  :-)
<bfiller> lool: the MID team status is uncertain depending on customer commitments
<bfiller> lool: we all want to attend
<lool> bfiller: Excellent news :)
<kyleN> yessiree
<davidm> bfiller, it will make our list of things to do shorter if you don't come ;-)
<bfiller> lool: excellent if we can come :)
<bspencer_> Intel hasn't discussed this yet, or costs.
<bfiller> davidm: that is for sure!
<davidm> Ok next topic
<lool> So this was just to bring the subject up; in general Canonical people know how this works, if people at Intel know of someone outside of Intel who should come please tell us!
<lool> bspencer_: (Would be nice to discuss on your side!)
<davidm> [topic] (lool) Status reports on the public mailing list
<MootBot> New Topic:  (lool) Status reports on the public mailing list 
<bspencer_> mawhalen, note:  discuss UDS attendance :)
<lool> I think that's obvious from my status report
<lool> I stopped sending status reports for a while (publicly) which is wrong (tm)
<davidm> bspencer_, I've sent a request to Intel for some specific people to attend
<lool> I think we should resume sending them
<lool> Intel folks were better behaved than me here
<davidm> lool, I agree we need to keep them on the public lists when possible.
<davidm> OK next topic OK?
<lool> I personally copy paste my internal activity reports into a public one filtered from confidential issues
<lool> (ok for next topic)
<agoliveira> lool: You're right. I missed that too.
<davidm> [topic] (kyleN) Moblin theme inconsistency with Hildon Theme tools to be fixed by updating layout.txt and template.png? (Mentioned in Shane Bryan's Moblin Theme Guide)
<MootBot> New Topic:  (kyleN) Moblin theme inconsistency with Hildon Theme tools to be fixed by updating layout.txt and template.png? (Mentioned in Shane Bryan's Moblin Theme Guide) 
<GrueMaster> Question on status reports:  Do we (Intel) want to put benchmark info on system steppings in the public forum?
<kyleN> so we will need to make some 'themes". and Shane's good writeup points out the Intel has not updated their theme to supprot the theme tools
<lool> GrueMaster: If you can, any info is good
<davidm> GrueMaster, I think  not
<HappyCamp_laptop> GrueMaster: very doubtful
<GrueMaster> That's what I thought.
<kyleN> bspencer_: do you have anything to say to this point?
<davidm> Intel Canonical Wiki I think is the place for those
 * lool notes
<bspencer_> sabotage, ping
<GrueMaster> I just noticed some of that in a recent email post.
<lool> kyleN: Which writeup is this?
<bspencer_> kyleN, yes, we need to make sure the tools are updated, and then gen a new theme using the tools
<kyleN> lool, mentioned in Topic
<bspencer_> and sabotage (Shane Bryan) has this assignment
<lool> Ok
<lool> bspencer_: Is it doable for next week?
<kyleN> bspencer_: does he need an action?
<bspencer_> kyleN, he needs to attend first :)
<bspencer_> lool,  I don't know.   It would be a stretch
<kyleN> then do you need one, bspencer_ ? ;)
<bspencer_> lool, we should bring it up with mawhalen and sabotage 
<bfiller> bspencer_: related question is when will sabotage "release" his document to the public?
<lool> bspencer_: Ok, let's action our two to get this scheduled
<mawhalen> bspencer_: I'll follow up on that one
<lool> So action on mawhalen to plan the theme update?
<bspencer_> bfiller, soon.  We have just to review again and legal-proof it.  Nothing extraordinary.  That can be done by next week :)
<davidm> [action] mawhalen to followup on when theme  tools are updated, and then gen a new theme using the tools with  sabotage (Shane Bryan) 
<MootBot> ACTION received:  mawhalen to followup on when theme  tools are updated, and then gen a new theme using the tools with  sabotage (Shane Bryan)  
<bfiller> bspencer_: thanks
<kyleN> great
<davidm> next topic
<sabotage> sorry folks...on another call...
<bspencer_> sabotage, the Q is 3 parts
<bspencer_> 1) doc
<bspencer_> 2) theme tools
<lool> rustyl: What about we add some MIC code to properly do this as it starts a terminal with proper mounts?
<bspencer_> 3) theme from tools
<sabotage> Theme guide has been reviewed by editor, I have been adding updates and proper attributions, and it will need at least one more tech ed review and a legal review before publishing
<sabotage> no action yet on the tools
<rustyl> lool... are talking about the dbus session issue?
<davidm> sabotage, do you have any timeframes for this
<lool> rustyl: Sorry, I'm anticipating
<davidm> rustyl, not yet
<bfiller> kyleN: can you and sabotage offline the specific issues you are having with themes?
<davidm> almost
<sabotage> actually, I was hoping for more feedback from kyleN bfiller and others I sent it to before we start changing the tools
<davidm> rustyl, almost, it's the next topic
<kyleN> bfiller: yes, but it's an intel issue to bring their images into theme compliance
<sabotage> davidm: timeframe for what?
<davidm> items bspencer_ outlined above 1 - 3?
<bfiller> sabotage: I think kyleN has some specifics on the doc. I have reviewed it only briefly (looks great..)
<bfiller> kyleN: agreed
<kyleN> sabotage: you know what I am referring to, correct?
<bspencer_> davidm, mawhalen, sabotage  and I will need to review the schedule, per your previous action.
<sabotage> kyleN: bfiller I agree it's an intel issue, but I want to ensure our path is in line with community norms/desires
<davidm> OK then lets move on one last topic
<kyleN> right
<davidm> [topic]  (rustyl) What is the status for finding a resolution for enabling a Hardy PPA target image to run inside Xephyr. This is the issue where the session dbus is not being started, causing massive breakage on many levels.
<MootBot> New Topic:   (rustyl) What is the status for finding a resolution for enabling a Hardy PPA target image to run inside Xephyr. This is the issue where the session dbus is not being started, causing massive breakage on many levels. 
<sabotage> kyleN: no
<davidm> rustyl, topic is up now.
<lool> rustyl: What about we add some MIC code to properly do this as it starts a terminal with proper mounts?
<rustyl> i don't know how it's supposed to work
<lool> AIUI, it's mounting filesystems and setting things up to enter and leave the chroot already
<bfiller> sabotage: me, you and kyleN should plan on talking next week
<rustyl> it worked with the old version of X
<lool> It could as well do an invoke-rc.d dbus start
<bfiller> rustyl: I think the problem is related to running a Hardy image in a Gutsy chroot
<rustyl> dbus is starting
<HappyCamp_laptop> lool: I thought our ume-xephry-start script did that
<sabotage> bfiller: kyleN: sure, lets talk...Wed/Thur I'm OOP
<kyleN> Wed
<lool> HappyCamp_laptop: Then I don't understanst the issue we're discussing; I thought it was to help with this
<kyleN> offline guys
<bfiller> rustyl: have you or anyone else tried it on a Hardy box?
<HappyCamp_laptop> not me
<rustyl> no, but i don't see how that could be it... xephr is run from inside the chroot
<rustyl> all the code is execting inside a hardy chroot
<bfiller> rustyl: not everything
<lool> rustyl: Perhaps we should investigate in a bug report rather than in the meeting?
<rustyl> what do you think is escaping the chroot that could cause this?
<rustyl> are people seeing this 'just work' on their hardy systems?
<bfiller> bfiller: possible a dbus conflict, or some security related issue as many things have changed btwn hardy and gutys
<lool> rustyl: Perhaps dbus checks whether another dbus process is running or whether it's being started from within a chroot?
<lool> rustyl: Yes, hardy under hardy works
<bfiller> rustyl: I am seeing the same problem as you. Xephry does not work with hardy image running on gutsy
<rustyl> lool, ok, so some people are using Xephr
<rustyl> i thought everyone was broke, and nobody was saying anything
<agoliveira> rustyl: nope, runs fine here (hardy/hardy)
<lool> So perhaps you could investigate together with a hardy and a gutsy box to compare?
<agoliveira> Or just use hardy? ;)
<bfiller> rustyl: rephrase - many apps and control panels do not work correctly in Xephry, but it does launch:)
<rustyl> on my main developerment machine... not a chance
<bfiller> rustyl: I agree. Lets file a bug and get this assigned to someone
<rustyl> bfiller, the real test would be open a terminal, and type "dbus-monitor --session"
<lool> davidm: Any last minute topic?
<davidm> Nope this is the last topic
 * HappyCamp_laptop cheers!
<davidm> so is this going to a bug report?
<davidm> if so who is doing so?
<bspencer_> davidm, bfiller wanted to do it.  He's not very busy these days
<lool> haha
<bfiller> bspencer_: I'll do it :)
<bfiller> (file the bug that is)
<bfiller> Is it a MIC bug?
<rustyl> i don't think so
<bspencer_> I expected the next line to be :  ACTION bspencer to file a bug :)
<bspencer_> but MIC or the ume-xephyr-start script may be able to remedy it if it is simple.
<rustyl> but the resolution could result in a change to mic
<davidm> [action]  bfiller to file bug on gutsy/hardy dbus problems?
<MootBot> ACTION received:   bfiller to file bug on gutsy/hardy dbus problems? 
<davidm> That describe it well enough?
<agoliveira> An action if form of a question? :)
<davidm> Slipped
<bfiller> davidm: good enough, I know what you mean
<davidm> OK then 
<davidm> time to end going once ................................................
<bspencer_> agoliveira, 2s after meeting?
<agoliveira> bspencer_: Sure.
<davidm> ending meeting going twice..........................................................................................................
<davidm> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 18:24.
<bspencer_> agoliveira, I see you uploaded a galculator to hardy PPA.  Where is the source repository for that?  Is there one in bzr with the Hildon patches already?
<kyleN> lool, you see my private hat with you on i18n?
<kyleN> chat
<lool> kyleN: I don't; are you registered?
<bspencer_> and if I want to make small changes, should I upload them to debian/patches in that bzr repo, or just make changes directly to a hardy branch?
<agoliveira> bspencer_: The source is aways the one in hardy. This one on PPA is quite old IIRC.
<kyleN> hmmm, i believe I am my nick is... maybe it isnt
<kyleN> can you create a room then and invite me?
<lool> kyleN: 19:25 -NickServ(NickServ@services.)-           Last Seen: 10 weeks 2 days (22h  38m 3s) ago
<bspencer_> agoliveira, I'd like to know where we plan to keep the source repo so i can make my changes there and then gen the PPA source from there.
<lool> kyleN: You need to identify on reconnects
<kyleN> lool wow
<bspencer_> we had it on moblin but took it off at the sprint
<bspencer_> now it is homeless.
<kyleN> I see
<lool> kyleN: We can discuss non confidential issues here and confidential ones on our internal IRC
<agoliveira> bspencer_: Ah, sorry. Now I remember. We had a period a few days ago where galculator won't build for lpia due some missing hildon dependencies so I uploaded that one to ppa.
<kyleN> lool, hang on I want to talk about i18n...
<kyleN> ok, lool, I believe to i18n C code you do the following
<lool> kyleN: Yes, I'm hanging on; but as the meeting slipped, we're getting close to my dinner
<kyleN> include libintl.h
<agoliveira> bspencer_: You can aways use the PPA and once done we can upload to the main repos.
<kyleN> define macros for _( substitution
<kyleN> modify code to use _( for strings exposed in UI
<bspencer_> agoliveira, I can replace yours with the one we have on moblin with our patches, but again the source repo is undefined
<kyleN> then to build
<kyleN> you need a po/ dir
<kyleN> it has to contain POTFILES.IN
<agoliveira> bspencer_: The source repo is aways hardy. We don't have 2.
<kyleN> and Mavevars
<kyleN> somehow, the build has to call intltool-update -p
<agoliveira> bspencer_: apt-get source galculator
 * bspencer_ tries to find it on launchpad...
<kyleN> how?
<kyleN> is that all for C?
<bspencer_> agoliveira, but that has no HILDON changes for lpia, or does it?
<rustyl> agoliveira, that's not a source repository
<agoliveira> bspencer_: Should have.
<lool> kyleN: Usually, translators do it when they work on an updated po
<agoliveira> rustyl: Because you don't have versioning?
<lool> kyleN: Our packages also do it via CDBS magic for example
<kyleN> lool, you mean call intltool-update -po?
<kyleN> -p
<rustyl> agoliveira, at the sprint we agreed that a bzr repo would be created for each project we colaberate on
<lool> kyleN: Concerning the #includes, it's a bit simplistic; you also need to setup intltool in your configure.in and intltoolize to add proper rules to the po/
<tremolux> bspencer_: https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/galculator
<bspencer_> agoliveira, something on:  https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mobile/
<lool> kyleN: grep intltool-update -r /usr/share/cdbs
<kyleN> what is inltoolizwe, is that a script?
<agoliveira> rustyl: I'm not telling you that use the bzr is wrong, just that the authoritative source is the one on hardy.
<kyleN> ok
<tremolux> bspencer_: it does have the hildon changes, but not some important changes after that (osso stuff, other things)
<lool> kyleN: This is included in GNOME packages
<agoliveira> rustyl: You can use bzr and after you're done ask for upload.
<rustyl> i think tremolux has pointed us to what we are asking for
<agoliveira> the diff I mean
<bspencer_> tremolux, ok.  
<lool> kyleN: intltoolize is bundled with intltool to copy over distribution files for intltoolized packages
<bspencer_> do I have write access to the hardy branch?  Who do I send my patches too?
<bspencer_> s/too/to
<kyleN> lool, ok, is that it then?
<lool> kyleN: For example intltool-update.in, intltool-merge.in etc. are copied by intltoolize as well as po/Makefile.in.in
<kyleN> (lool, they are calling me for another meeting, darnit, i hvae to go...)
<agoliveira> bspencer_: Make the changes and open a bug on launchpad.
<lool> kyleN: Well that's mostly it; perhaps you can try to create a hello world GNOME app which would have a ./configure, a main.c and po/ files
<bspencer_> agoliveira, ok.  I have what I need.  I'll make patches against this source and send them to...you or tremolux 
<bspencer_> and upload to the PPA in the meantime 
<lool> kyleN: Below http://live.gnome.org/TranslationProject there's plenty of guides; "For maintainers and developers" is what you should focus on
<tremolux> bspencer_: awesome, thanks
<kyleN> ok. cheers lool.
<bspencer_> tremolux, who are you? :)
<agoliveira> bspencer_: We don't have more access than you so I'll have to open a bug the same way :)
<tremolux> bspencer_: hehe Gary Lasker
<bspencer_> ah, Gary.  sorry.
<tremolux> bspencer_: :)
<bspencer_> tremolux doesn't look like "Gary" :)
<bspencer_> but then again Mithrandir doesn't resemble "lool" either
<bspencer_> s/lool/tollef
<bspencer_> :-\
<agoliveira> bspencer_: I sugessted SpongeBobsPet but he didn't like it :)
<tremolux> bspencer_:  [:) 
<lool> kyleN: If something is unclear, ping me or send me an email
<lool> kyleN: Also, one good thing to try is to build GNOME modules from SVN and from tarball
<Mithrandir> bspencer_: I've been using Mithrandir as my IRC nick for about 12 years, it's hard to change. :-)
<lool> kyleN: Take one small module, for example hmm zenity
<lool> kyleN: zenity is a wrapper around gtk+ widgets for the shell
<tremolux> bspencer_, agoliveira I gotta run to an engineering meeting, thanks for the galculator
<bspencer_> cheers
<lool> kyleN: You can checkout the SVN, see what the "autogen" does (it calls intltoolize) how configure.in has intltool hooks etc.
<agoliveira> bspencer_: Anyway, send me the debdiff against Hardy's galculator and I'll see to upload it.
<lool> kyleN: Then you can try to create your own zenity tarball with make dist and/or look at the official tarballs; you should see the files shipped in releases
<bspencer_> agoliveira, thx.
<lool> kyleN: This should be all you need to get started; there isn't much, but it's best to try out the process from a maintainer and translator perspective to get the big picture :)
<agoliveira> bspencer_: No problem.
 * lool dinner &
<bspencer_> agoliveira, does the upstream galculator already have the concept of building for lpia and hildon?
<bspencer_> have they made those changes to the configure.ac, or equivalent?
<agoliveira> bspencer_: I don't knwo about upstream, sorry.
<bspencer_> ok
<agoliveira> bspencer_: The source from hardy, does.
<bspencer_> sure
<bspencer_> bfiller, what do you guys use for a soft keyboard?
<bspencer_> are you using mobile-matchbox-keyboard?
<bfiller> bspencer_: yes, just using the stuff you guys provide
 * bspencer_ checks PPa
<th89> hey guys, i developed a new mobile application for windows mobile 6. u can check it out at http://thetechturf.com/?page_id=224
<th89> its Google2GO!
<agoliveira> th89: Nice but useless for us.
<th89> agoliveira, yeah
<th89> agoliveira, but still getting the word out....
<StevenK> bspencer_: Hi, who can I grab to talk about Helix?
<bspencer_> StevenK, probably rustyl  or the guy in PRC is halley -- starts work in about 3hrs.
<rustyl> StevenK, what's up?
#ubuntu-mobile 2008-02-22
<ToddBrandt> Mithrandir: you online?
<Mithrandir> ToddBrandt: yes
<ToddBrandt> question
<ToddBrandt> Mithrandir: what does this mean:
<ToddBrandt> Rejected:
<ToddBrandt> Signer has no upload rights at all to this distribution.
<ToddBrandt> Signer is not permitted to upload to the component 'universe' of file 'moblin-keyboard-manager_0.51.dsc'
<ToddBrandt> I tried to upload that package to ubuntu-mobile and it still complains to me that I don't have access
<ToddBrandt> That message was in the email sent to me after I used dput moblin-keyboard-manager_0.51.changes
<ToddBrandt> I just tried uploading 0.40 of moblin-applets and I expect I'll be getting the same message in a few minutes
<Mithrandir> you need to upload to the ubuntu-mobile ppa
<ToddBrandt> Mithrandir: this is my .dput.cf file
<ToddBrandt> [moblin-ppa]
<ToddBrandt> fqdn = ppa.launchpad.net
<ToddBrandt> method = ftp
<ToddBrandt> incoming = ~ubuntu-mobile/ubuntu
<ToddBrandt> login = anonymous
<ToddBrandt> allow_unsigned_uploads = 0
<ToddBrandt> passive_ftp = 0
<ToddBrandt> Mithrandir: is that what controls my uploading to the ubuntu-mobile ppa?
<Mithrandir> you need to do dput moblin-ppa moblin-keyboard-manager_0.51.changes
<Mithrandir> (or have something like:
<ToddBrandt> oh ok
<Mithrandir> [DEFAULT]
<Mithrandir> default_host_main = moblin-ppa
<Mithrandir> above it)
<ToddBrandt> ok, I just retried both
<ToddBrandt> Mithrandir: ok, pheww, finally they are accepted. Thanks
<dholbach> good morning
<tonyespy> Fenario: I'm working at the cafe for an hour so, then headed in... when do you have time today for me to fiddle w/your laptop?
<dholbach> Library Packagin Session in #ubuntu-classroom
<ToddBrandt> davidm: What's the default translation file we need to create? en_CA.po is canadian english and en_BR.po is british english.
#ubuntu-mobile 2008-02-24
<heret1c> hello :)
<heret1c> anyone here succeed in transfering pix from a nokia camphone to pc? I use kubuntu 8.04 alpha 5, and have a Nokia 6070.
<heret1c> high-activity channel, eh?
<chao1> Hello everyone
<chao1> I was wondering if anyone was working on porting ubuntu-mobile to the hp ipaq 1700
<angelus_> hi guys
<angelus_> i'm getting a Kohjinsha UMPC and was looking for a linux solution when i came across ubuntu-mobile
<angelus_> i'm just wondering what is the 1.0 release date?
<angelus_> i cant seem to see it on the project site
#ubuntu-mobile 2009-02-17
<S_A> Hi! I want to run Ubuntu Mobile on AMD Geode platform. is it possible ? is there any prebuilt image which will do the trick ?
<tomodachi> S_A:  is it for the olpc?
<S_A> tomodachi: No! 
<tomodachi> ok 
<tomodachi> just wondering 
<tomodachi> :)
<S_A> I have a thinclient running custom Linux. Just wondering to do some trials on Ubuntu Mobile
<tomodachi> havent run it myself unfortunately so im no good to you
<Celtiore> hi
<Celtiore> persia ? , can we find listing about 100% compatible mid with ubuntu mobile ?
<Squarc> Hey, I got a question:
<Squarc> Is the HTC Touch Diamond capable of running Ubuntu MID/Ubuntu Mobile?
<persia> Celtiorus, We'd probably have to create such a listing, which would require lots of hardware.
<persia> If you're interested, feel free to start a wiki page.  I'd be happy to add my stuff there.
<ian_brasil> persia: if i get gypsy packaged up and put in my ppa can it get in before feature freeze on the 19th?
<persia> ian_brasil, At this point, it's very late.  Chances are low, but it's possible.
<persia> You'd want to push it to REVU, rather than your PPA.
<persia> !revu
<ubottu> REVU is a web-based tool to give people who have worked on Ubuntu packages a chance to "put their packages out there" for other people to look at and comment on in a structured manner. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU
<ian_brasil> ah ok i have used REVU before
<ian_brasil> i will ping you when i have done it
<persia> OK.  You might want to ping generally in #ubuntu-motu, just in case I'm not about just then.
<persia> Someone else might get to it first, and as you need two in the next day or so to get it in, that's a good thing.
#ubuntu-mobile 2009-02-18
<asac> hmm ... moblin git seems to be down for connman ... anyone sees this for other moblin stuff too?
<asac> for me its down for 2 weeks or so :(
<asac> fyi, http://www.asoftsite.org/s9y/archives/159-New-connman-in-ubuntu.html
<ogra> asac, so wordy ...
<asac> ogra: sorry, didnt want to go into detail on what doesnt work ;)
<ogra> heh
<compguy1011> i have a hp mini netbook and installed ubuntu remix, it was fine for a week or so then now is so slow i have to keep restarting it, and sometimes it will boot correctly and others not. and waking from sleep it just sits with a blank screen, any ideas? or maybe a different distro/version?
<Dillizar> can i install ubuntu on AMR9?
<Dillizar> any one
<persia> Dillizar, You can run Jaunty there, but installing might be tricky.  #ubuntu-arm might also be a good place to ask.
<ogra> a beter one indeed :)
<ogra> *better
<persia> compguy1011, Hard to say.  I'd probably either try to track down the problems and file bugs, or try a reinstall.
<Dillizar> persia, isnt jaunty the name of the ubuntu 9.04??
<compguy1011> i reinstalled, same thing
<compguy1011> someone said try debian umm
<compguy1011> some lite version of debian
<persia> Dillizar, Well, except that Ubuntu 9.04 isn't done yet, but yes, Jaunty will become 9.04.
<persia> compguy1011, Well, you could.  You might also try Xubuntu, or just plain Ubuntu.
<Dillizar> persia, i am asking bout ubuntu mobile 
<Dillizar> this is not the channel for ubuntu mobile??
<persia> It is.
<compguy1011> persia, well with reg ubuntu... wouldnt that be too intense for the atom processor and a gig of ram?
<persia> Ubuntu Mobile is a project that works on a couple flavours of Ubuntu.  There's nothing separate from Ubuntu.
<Dillizar> persia, i think we are not on the same line here 
<persia> compguy1011, Not at all.  Some people run it on 486s with 128MB RAM.
<Dillizar> i have a sony ericsson p910 
<persia> OK.
<Dillizar> and i want to install ubuntu 
<ogra> Dillizar, try to dee mobile as a desktop flavour ... the underlying CPU arch doesnt matter for that 
<ogra> *see
<Dillizar> !install
<ubottu> Ubuntu can be installed in lots of ways. Please see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation for documentation.  Problems during install? See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommonProblemsInstall - Don't want to use a CD? Try http://tinyurl.com/3exghs - see also !automate
<ogra> ubuntu mobile focuses more on screensizes and apps, not actually on the CPU so much
<Dillizar> hmm 
<Dillizar> are talking bout the MID 
<persia> RIght.  There are currently two flavours, one targeting MIDs and one targeting subnotebooks/netbookx/umpcs/etc.
<Dillizar> so how do you run the MID on a phone?? last time i asked they said i need phone with intel CPU
<persia> Oh, that got fixed for jaunty: you can now run on any architecture supported by Ubuntu.
<ogra> though we dont have prebuilt images for all arches 
<Dillizar> persia, so you are saying that i can put regular 9.04 on my phone??
<persia> Well, assuming you can get it to install.  My phone boots off USB, and I've even run a Desktop LiveCD there (with a USB CD drive).
<persia> Note that resolution is the most critical factor.  Anything less than 1024x768 gets awkward right now, although we're trying to get that down to 800x600, and few phones have that resolution.
<Dillizar> mine is 208 x 320 pixels
<persia> The target is to get down to 640x480, which is available on lots of things, but that will be a while.
<persia> Yeah, that's a little too small for desktop :)
<Dillizar> hmm 
<ogra> even to small for MID i'd assume
<Dillizar> 2.9 inches
<persia> Yeah.  I don't think MID works well below 800x480 right now, although I just got my 640x480 device fixed, and haven't tested recently.
<persia> Dillizar, inches aren't so important.  One of my devices is 852x480 at 2.7".
<Dillizar> :D
<Dillizar> wait size and resolution are two different things right
<Dillizar> so
<persia> Right.
<Dillizar> my display is :Size 	208 x 320 pixels, 2.9 inches, 40 x 62 mm
<Dillizar> doesnt means its the resolution 
<persia> Well, 208x320 is the resolution, the others are the size.
<ogra> well, your display size is: 2.9 inches, 40 x 62 mm
<ogra> ... what persia said
<persia> Of course, this gets confusing because we tend to say "large" or "small" for both size and resolution.
<Dillizar> damn 
<persia> ian_brasil, Hey!  How's gypsy coming?  I definitely have some time for a review today.
<Dillizar> its ok i will find a good theme :D and a splash screen :D that looks the same like ubuntu :D
<persia> For that hardware, that's likely your best bet :)
<ian_brasil> persia..ok..i will try to do it after work!
<persia> ian_brasil, Oh, sorry.  I'm not tracking timezones well today.  Catch you then :)
<Dillizar> persia, do ya know any LCARS linux 
<Dillizar> D:
<ian_brasil> cool
<persia> Dillizar, Sorry, no.
<wasabi> So... is this thing runnable on a normal Ubuntu install yet? Seems a bit convoluted to get it working on Intrepid.
<persia> You mean in parallel?
<wasabi> I don't know what you mean by parallel. I'd expect it to be little more than a setup consisting of a different window manager and default application set.
<wasabi> Semes I'm wrong.
<persia> Well, the netbook flavour is that and some gconf keys, so ought mostly work in parallel, although the gconf changes might cause some confusion.
<wasabi> Well, can't figure out what's required then.  ubuntu-mobile and hildon-desktop seem to get a bunch of different components on it.
<wasabi> But I'm unsure how to start a session... found hildon-start, which is hard coded to DISPLAY=:1
<persia> The MID flavour uses startx in place of a display manager, which gets a little funny.
<wasabi> Okay. That's fine. I can write an xsession file.
<wasabi> So what do I need to run, in what order?
<persia> OK.  What are you trying to accomplish?
<wasabi> Get a ubuntu mobile desktop launched from GDM. ;)
<persia> OK.  Which release?
<wasabi> Oh. I see. MID and Mobile are different things?
<wasabi> Intrepid.
<persia> OK.
<persia> apt-get install ubuntu-mobile
<wasabi> Done.
<persia> Now that's just desktop + gconf keys.  Log in with GDM, and see the difference.
<wasabi> Eh? 
<wasabi> It takes over an existign gnome desktop?
<ogra> yes
<persia> For intrepid, the "ubuntu-mobile" metapackage is just a few extra apps, and some gconf keys, to make GNOME look better on UMPCs.
<wasabi> Ahh.
<wasabi> Okay, so the different session, with the different application launcher: what do you call that?
<ogra> fi you uninstall ubuntu-mobile-default-settings it will revert 
<persia> Somehow I think we should step back again.
<persia> What are you trying to accomplish?
<wasabi> I have no idea. ;) To get a touch-screeny-like interface on a desktop, preferably without killing my existing gnome setup. :0
<persia> You want a hildon environment launched from GDM?
<ogra> i think you are talking about ubuntu-netbook-remix 
<ogra> or MID
<wasabi> Maybe I am.
<ogra> have a screenshot of what you want ? 
<wasabi> Nothing I can find describes the differences or even what these things are in full.
<persia> That's mostly because every time I wrote it down it changed.
<wasabi> Heh
<persia> As long as I don't write it down, it seems stable.
<wasabi> ogra: Not really. I want to try it all.
<wasabi> ogra: So I can figure out what it is.
<ogra> netbook-remix: http://tombuntu.com/index.php/2008/06/03/canonical-announces-the-ubuntu-netbook-remix/ 
<ogra> MID: http://www.ubuntu.com/products/mobile
<wasabi> Ahh. That grid on the mboile page.
<ogra> umpc: http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/mobile/
<wasabi> That's what I was intiially interested in
<persia> That's what you just installed, but because it's done mostly with gconf, it's not available in parallel.
<persia> Oh, sorry.  mistaken interpolation.
<ogra> yeah
<ogra> he wants MID
<wasabi> I see, so mobile is just some gconf tweaks to make windows fullscreen and colors dark, and set an icon theme.
<wasabi> got it.
<persia> Right.  So, the software that would have been used to generate those screenshots never existed in an installable form within Ubuntu.
<persia> The closest you'll find in intrepid is from installing ubuntu-mid.
<ogra> (the image, not the metapackage)
<persia> However, you'll need to hack apart some of ubuntu-mid-default-settings if you want to get that working through GDM.
<persia> ogra, Or the metapackage.
<ogra> in intrepid ? 
<wasabi> metapackage exists in intrepid. Cannot vouch for it's operation. :)
 * ogra doubts that makes sense ... though its techinically possible
<persia> Well, there are 12 applications that were very slightly different, but kourou wasn't one of them.
<wasabi> Weird Java stuff coming along with it.
<ogra> yes, its used to build the image
<ogra> but -mid is more, its the cut down system below as well
<persia> So, ubuntu-mid-default-settings installs two things that will cause issues with being in parallel.
<persia> The first is /etc/event.d/session which is a respawning startx running as the user "ubuntu".
<wasabi> Nice.
<persia> The second is /etc/X11/Xsession.d/25${somethingorother} which is the session definition for the environment.
<ogra> wasabi, so what drove you in the mobile direction as a server guy :)
<wasabi> I'm not just a server guy.
<persia> If you fiddle with those, you can probably hack up something that lets you use GDM.
<ogra> well, thats what i have known you for the last years :)
<wasabi> Because that's what I engage with you on. :)
<ogra> haha
<wasabi> I'm also a permanent establishment in #gnome-hackers.
<wasabi> And do Mono and Gtk# development
<ogra> oh, i didnt know 
<wasabi> And right now, I'm doing a house up with touchscreen interfaces.
<persia> And talk about all three of those on #ubuntu-devel :)
<wasabi> Embedded into the walls.
<ogra> cute !
<wasabi> So I'm taking a look at what Ubuntu has on teh front that might assist that.
<ogra> MID is likely good for that but you will surely need custom home automation apps
<wasabi> I've also got Android running on an x86 just to check that out. :)
<persia> wasabi, Calling any of it "Embedded" is a bit of a stretch.  It's just interface changes.
<wasabi> Oh, no doubt. I might give up and do nothing more than a single full screened Gtk app with some tabs.
<wasabi> My biggest itnerest right now is to explore the onscreen keyboard and input stuff, touch specific.
<wasabi> Stuff hildon contributed to.
<wasabi> No matter what I develop, I'll want that.
<ogra> well, there are other tools
<ogra> i personally prefer the cellwriter keyboard as onscreen kbd 
<wasabi> Hildon's on screen keyboard... the one that pops up below, and moves the window out of the way... '
<wasabi> what's that called, and is that non-hildon specific at this point?
<ogra> its non hildon, its the one you see in the screenshots for umpc
<wasabi> it seems to pop up on top of things, instead of making them smaller.
<ogra> but it doesnt move stuff out of the way (yet)
<wasabi> ahh
<ogra> right
<ian_brasil> persia: i have built gypsy in intrepid fine ..i have a jaunty pbuilder set up and i am running sudo pbuilder build gypsy_0.5-2.dsc 
<ian_brasil> but i get errors running pbuilder-satisfydepends-dummy
<ian_brasil> it says this package is broken
<ian_brasil> i ran pbuilder update too
#ubuntu-mobile 2009-02-19
<persia> ian_brasil, Sorry: didn't quite manage to stay up (and now we've missed).  If you post control and the terminal output, we can probably sort it.
<MrGoodkat_> how do i change the hildon menu?
<MrGoodkat_> to add a shutdown button etc
 * rzr just tested unr-1.0.1.img  on eeepc-701, are there more recent release to test ?
<ogra> me points to http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-netbook-remix/
<rzr> thx , I am blind :)
<ogra> well, its the development release ... still alpha
<rzr> 1.0.1 does not support the NIC , so i just can be better
<rzr> it just ..
<tunk> UNR: Looks like I'm being a bit daft. I rearranged my main menu so that all my apps would be on the same pane, which I called 'applications'. It insists on having a favourites pane which now will not take any icons which are marked as favourites. How are favourites managed and how can I remove favourites functionality or at least get it working again? Thanks in advance.
<tunk> ie, what is ubuntu doing when i say "add to favourites"?
#ubuntu-mobile 2009-02-20
<ethana2> I just got an updated window-picker-applet today, and now I have no context menus in it
<ethana2> ethan@home:~$ apt-cache policy window-picker-applet
<ethana2> window-picker-applet:
<ethana2>   Installed: 0.4.14~ppa1
 * ethana2 uninstalls applet and installs via .deb file
<ethana2> k, it works again
<ethana2> uh oh, the version I reverted from is showing up in my updates now
<ethana2> wait a minute, I must be using the development ppa
#ubuntu-mobile 2009-02-21
<Uzziel__> is there a way to rotate the screen besides xrandr?
<mdke> hi there. I've got Ubuntu installed on a hp mini 2133 and have installed the netbook remix packages. I'd like to try the netbook-remix setup but when i run "netbook-launcher" or "desktop-switcher" from my regular Ubuntu desktop the launcher menu is half hidden off the top of the screen. Does anyone know how to fix this?
<mdke> the instructions aren't so clear on the wiki page about how to actually run the desktop
<mdke> here's a screenshot of my problem - http://mdke.org/tmp/netbook-remix.png
<mdke> let me know if any solutions, I'll by afk but will pick up hilights
<ogra> mdke, jaunty ? 
<bman_> so will mobile work on my n800 yet?
<mdke> ogra: no this is 8.10
#ubuntu-mobile 2009-02-22
<ilioscio> hey all
#ubuntu-mobile 2010-02-22
<bandwidthcrunch> Hi !! Any leads on how to build ubuntu rootfs from source ? 
<persia> bandwidthcrunch: Why do you want to build from source?  Do you just want modifications to some stuff, or toolchain changes?
<zul> hi guys, can someone help out with this? http://launchpadlibrarian.net/39001967/buildlog_ubuntu-lucid-armel.squid_2.7.STABLE7-1ubuntu5_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
 * persia peeks
<persia> zul: You might find that #ubuntu-arm has more ARM folk (including folk who like to play with ARM server or other stuff).
<zul> persia: thanks 
<persia> zul: Does it repeat with a give-back?  Sometimes these are heisenbugs (the buildds seem to be slightly unstable).
<zul> persia: no idea
<persia> Well, press the shny clicky thing :)
<persia> When I get strange segfaults in builds like that, I just press the button, and sometimes they go away.
<persia> Preserving a copy of the old log helps one find out if it's the same place.
#ubuntu-mobile 2010-02-23
<ogra> ##################### REMINDER: mobile team meeting in #ubuntu-meeting in 3 min ######################
#ubuntu-mobile 2010-02-25
<jo-erlend> should I be able to install Ubuntu MID on my Nokia N900?
<GrueMaster> ogra what's with the team meeting reminder?  We only have the meeting once a day and it is far earlier than what you have announcing.
<GrueMaster> Er, once a week I mean.
<GrueMaster> Oh, nevermind.  No scrollback in this channel.  Odd.
#ubuntu-mobile 2010-02-26
<ogra> hmm, so while go-home doesnt crash anymore on armel with efl launcher, dragging and dropping favicons out of firefox doesnt do anything, isnt that supposed to add the link to my favorites ? 
#ubuntu-mobile 2010-02-27
<ehnde> how much space does netbook remix take up on a default install?
<ehnde> got a netbook with a 16gb of hard drive space
<ehnde> ok, i found out that it takes up nearly 2gb so nvm
