#ubuntu-accessibility 2011-04-18
<pleia2> Pendulum: when you have a chance, can you send me one of the documents for event planning that takes accessibility things into consideration?
<pleia2> working with ubuntu-hu to come up with some night tourism stuffs
<pleia2> doesn't look like we have an easy way to submit evening events yet though, so I'll have to follow-up with that too
 * nigelb hugs pleia2 
<maco> TheMuso: looky
<maco> <ev> maco: oh, I completely forgot.  So I do: sudo -u ubuntu DISPLAY=:0 python test_ubiquity.py
<maco> <ev> where test_ubiquity is:
<maco> <ev> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ev/+junk/ubiquity-ldtp-tests/view/head:/test_ubiquity.py
<maco> TheMuso: thats the answer to accerciser & ubiquity
<maco> Pendulum: i'm guessing "make Unity 2D use identical shortcuts to Unity 3D" is on the a11y agenda for discussion at uds?
<Pendulum> maco: that's more on TheMuso's side
<AlanBell> maco: is that a blueprint title?
<maco> AlanBell: no
<maco> but i figured there'd be some sort of meeting between a11y people and the ayatana team to discuss what's needed
<maco> and i wanted to check that that would be brought up
<AlanBell> it is a good point, there should be a systematic way to get 2d and 3d aligned
<AlanBell> not just for a11y reasons either
<maco> perhaps we should have a wiki page where we can list accessibility considerations to give them?
<hajour> hi all
<Pendulum> hi hajour 
<hajour> charlie-tca, and Pendulum 
<hajour> i got a great idea and allready busy to do it to
<Pendulum> oh?
<hajour> today i  have go to city hall.and said my plan and they find it a good plan to
<hajour> ok what i go to do is this
<hajour> in netherland special friesland province ar many ict people without a job also people with issues
<hajour> so i told from ubuntu and speechcontrol
<hajour> i said why not let people who want work here by ubuntu.they will keep then there well fair .people with issues will finally get a honest chang to
<hajour> and they can do what they really like
<hajour> volunteer work with keeping well fair money
<hajour> i also told from edubuntu
<hajour> so tomorrow i have a appointment with a person from city hall
<Pendulum> good luck :)
<hajour> so what you think of it?
<charlie-tca> hajour: good luck 
<charlie-tca> I hope you succeed!
<hajour> i go succeed
<hajour> they where very enthusiastic about it
<hajour> i told it to UndiFineD  and he said with his hand for his mouth with big eyes uh? you just walked in /
<hajour> ?
<hajour> XD 
<hajour> i going to put it on mail to in accessibility mail
<hajour> tomorrow because now i am tired
<hajour> i go to tell it to by ubuntu-nl
<hajour> have told first from all here
<hajour> o btw have booked the flight today to uds
<charlie-tca> Thanks
<charlie-tca> Good
<charlie-tca> I will see you there
<charlie-tca> I fly into Budapest on Saturday
<hajour> also have get my passport from city hall suddenly for free 
<charlie-tca> even better
<hajour> tomorrow i go get him
<hajour> i will arrive on sunday
<hajour> by uds
<JanC> hajour: don't forget to mention the Frysian translation project--I know they like that sort of thing there...  ;)
<JanC> (AFAIK Windows isn't available in Frysian?)
<hajour> yes i also go talk about that JanC  allready thought about that
<hajour> what means AFAIK ?
<AlanBell> as far as I know
<JanC> sorry, AFAIK == As Far As I Know ("voor zover ik weet")
<hajour> a ok
<hajour> dont worry i also told from edubuntu
<AlanBell> you might also see AFAICT as far as I can tell
<hajour> where the C stands for?
<hajour> a ok
<hajour> sorry
<AlanBell> can :)
<hajour> have had a long day
<hajour> very much arranged
<hajour> dislecty guidance and coach for my oldest daughter and ict lessons.last is still in discuss stadium
<hajour> but i sure will win that discussion
<hajour> talked with people from city hall
<hajour> have reading logs was before i was do all above
<hajour> booked the flight with help from UndiFineD 
<hajour> o and btw wath kind of people are needed most here in ubuntu from programmers design ect
<hajour> would be handy to know you see
<hajour> AlanBell, charlie-tca Pendulum ^
<hajour> if some of you know it AlanBell  and Pendulum  and i thought also charlie-tca  know my emailadress .if you want to infrom me would be very nice
<hajour> uhm little doubting here .was it not good i did ?
<hajour> what i did i mean
<Pendulum> hajour: it's good!
<hajour> ok all ready was afraid i did something wrong
<hajour> btw need to get a vaccination this week. i hope i not will become ill from it
<hajour> because of going to uds
<zippo^> hajour, cool :)
<hajour> :)
<hajour> i go to sleep now need to get up early for to go to city hall tomorrow
 * hajour yawns
<Pendulum> hajour: good night :)
<hajour> goodnight all
#ubuntu-accessibility 2011-04-19
<TheMuso> maco: What is the answer to accerciser and ubiquity?
<maco> TheMuso: the bit from ev that i quoted
<maco> TheMuso: there's a test_ubiquity.py that has to be run with "sudo -u ubuntu DISPLAY=:0 python test_ubiquity.py"
<maco> TheMuso: test_ubiquity.py is on launchpad
<TheMuso> ah ok.
<TheMuso> Good to know.
<Humorrhoids> Hey, I just built an installable CD for a friend. Found out that orca is limited to gnome and xfce.
<Humorrhoids> okay. Can I use it with success on lxde?
<Humorrhoids> How do I import and what scripts do I import for orca to work on the iso when it boots?
<Humorrhoids> It's for ppc machines.
<UndiFineD> hajour here. my eeepc is not booting .black image and no starting up
<UndiFineD> talk about bad timing
<UndiFineD>  we are trying to solve the eeepc problem . i need to go cooking .anyway need to give the pc back to UndiFineD  again
<maco> by the way, i mentioned AlanBell's video on the Daniela post to mdz.  he asked that the tech board be poked about it. i'm guessing he means as a way of pushing for priorities to be shifted a bit next cycle
<AlanBell> how does one poke the TB?
<maco> email their mailing list?
<maco> technical-board@lists.ubuntu.com
#ubuntu-accessibility 2011-04-20
<charlie-tca> hm, wonder if giving developers ACE bandages and having the wrap their hands would show them how accessibility works?
* Pendulum changed the topic of #ubuntu-accessibility to: Ubuntu Accessibility Team https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Accessibility for more info | http://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-accessibility to join the mailing list |  Channel IRC logs: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ - Updated every hour | Next Team Meeting April 27, 2011 21:00 UTC. Meeting agenda:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Accessibility/Team/MeetingAgenda
<UndiFineD> hajour speaking here. Pendulum  is it ok if i write for accessibility column about what i am busy with to. working together so ubuntu will become official volunteer work .so people can work to for ubuntu with keeping there well fair .and people with having issues same idea.?or need it only to be about programming?
<UndiFineD> i was today by government instance from people with issues
<UndiFineD> i really miss my notebook.it was better then nothing
<UndiFineD> friesland is very ager to keep fries language alive.there is also now slowly go build up ubuntu-nl-fr .so on that way i will help ubuntu-nl-fr for translating.people who now sitting home will have a kind of work.with keeping money for pay there bills and cityhall will be happy.because there will be more action for keeping fries language alive
<UndiFineD> for to start
<UndiFineD> so i will get more opening to get people to work. like devs and designers ect
<UndiFineD> AlanBell, charlie-tca ^
<UndiFineD> btw i really need a notebook like i had.because i now not am able to get my private files from my old eeepc
<UndiFineD> need the info what is on my old notebook
<UndiFineD> speaking about a very bad timing for my notebook to die :(
<UndiFineD> o  cprofitt  see above / i am hajour not UndiFineD 
<charlie-tca> hajour: you got it approved by the government?
<UndiFineD> busy with cityhal and the inbstance for handicap people
<UndiFineD> they say i need to go to government self.for to get money for it
<charlie-tca> It is a start. 
<UndiFineD> but they found the idea very good
<UndiFineD> but i need first to solve some money isseus by example how to come by the airport for to go to uds and from airport to hotelect
<UndiFineD> ect.
<UndiFineD> also need to pay 50 euro for vaccinations to
<UndiFineD> then saving money for to go to the city where government is for to go talk about itr
<UndiFineD> -r
 * UndiFineD hate lways the barrier from money issues
<UndiFineD> then my mayor problem that y eeepc is dead
<UndiFineD> y=my
<UndiFineD> charlie-tca, ^
<charlie-tca> I see
<charlie-tca> It looks like a lot all at one time
<UndiFineD> when needed i go walk to airport al will i do about it a week
<UndiFineD> 10 minutes walk then rest 10 minutes walk ect
<UndiFineD> nobody will keep me away from uds
<UndiFineD> not after all the trouble to get sponsoring
<charlie-tca> Keep receipts too
<UndiFineD> receipts =?
<UndiFineD> charlie-tca,  do they have pc s available in hotel from uds?
<charlie-tca> for any buses, meals, etc
<charlie-tca> keep the papers show what you pay for anything
<charlie-tca> um, I don't think they do have pc's available.
<charlie-tca> I had none the last uds
<UndiFineD> charlie-tca,  i not have money to pay it forwards to you see
<IdleOne> I don't think they provide any pc or laptop at uds
<IdleOne> you need to bring your own
<AlanBell> you don't *need* to bring your own, but pretty much everyone does
<UndiFineD> maybe i can borowing the laptop from my daughter. with exam she not may use here own so
<AlanBell> you could use pen and paper
<AlanBell> or not make notes
<UndiFineD> i write and after i not can read back my own note s 
<AlanBell> it would be best to have a laptop
<AlanBell> however it isn't essential
<UndiFineD> i go ask my daughter tomorrow it only 1 week
<UndiFineD> it is i mean
<UndiFineD> still i need to resolve this.its hard to lead a team if you not have a pc/laptop
<charlie-tca> I used a notebook last UDS, and wrote notes for me to have.
<UndiFineD> i think the problem is my battery or cabel  from 
<UndiFineD> my eeepc
#ubuntu-accessibility 2011-04-21
<hajour1> goodnight all i go give back undifined his pc XD
<AlanBell> bug 554057
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 554057 in fglrx-installer "fglrxinfo crashed with SIGSEGV in XF86DRIQueryVersion() (dup-of: 546885)" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/554057
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 546885 in fglrx-installer "glxinfo crashed with SIGSEGV in XF86DRIQueryVersion()" [Medium,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/546885
<AlanBell> gnome bug 554057
<ubot2> Gnome bug 554057 in menu "Calling gtk_menu_shell_select_item() on GtkMenuBar can break grabs (and create big accessibility issues)" [Major,New] http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=554057
<AlanBell> http://www.theopensourcerer.com/2011/04/21/ubuntu-natty-in-virtualbox-with-unity/
<AlanBell> https://code.launchpad.net/~alanbell/onboard/branding/+merge/58715
<AlanBell> TheMuso: charlie-tca Pendulum could you please add a comment to bug 768583 to confirm that the contrasts of my cosmetic onboard adjustments are ok
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 768583 in onboard "UIFe: Onboard (on-screen keyboard) does not use Ubuntu interface font or colours" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/768583
<AlanBell> sladen is helping to get this through
<charlie-tca> Is there any way to get the damn thing in the menu?
<charlie-tca> It is really ironic that we can get anything done except the stuff that really matters to accessibility use
<AlanBell> probably not for Natty :(
<charlie-tca> I read that as never, actually. 
<AlanBell> however making it pretty and getting the design team to feel it is part of their platform is my strategy for getting it in the menu
<AlanBell> however I am not going to be able to achieve step 2 of my strategy in the next week
<charlie-tca> Considering it has waited for, what, about three years now, I guess another 6 months is okay
<maco> if sladen's on it, it'll probably get done though
<AlanBell> yup
<maco> i reported a bug about illegibility of Â£ at small sizes, and he argued with a designer for a few days on it
<maco> (designer relented!)
<AlanBell> sladen is this minute *excited* about onboard, he wants the ubuntu mono font on it
<AlanBell> he is on the design team
<AlanBell> he wants onboard to be part of the branding effort of the design team
<maco> i mean he argued with one of those contracted designers that's actually making the font
<AlanBell> Dalton Maag
<maco> yeah them
<AlanBell> so yeah, I love it when a plan comes together
<charlie-tca> It is going to be pink and orange?
<AlanBell> "light aubergine"
<AlanBell> ok, yeah, pink
<charlie-tca> scares me. After the solitare branding change, I had to remove the branding package, since the faded cards become too hard on the eyes
<AlanBell> I made the main keycaps have the most contrast
<AlanBell> followed by the numbers
<AlanBell> shift and space have bolder colours because you don't need contrast
<AlanBell> all it has to be right now is not worse than the old colours from a contrast perspective
<AlanBell> if you sign off that bug that it is OK and we get it into Natty then it can be made really pretty by proper designers during the Oneiric cycle
<charlie-tca> Okay, I gave you a good comment on it
<charlie-tca> but if the cards is the work of those designers, it would be better if they leave this alone
<AlanBell> heh
<charlie-tca> bug 754775
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 754775 in gnome-games "New branding on aisleriot solitaire cards is faded" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/754775
<charlie-tca> If that is the best they can do, they seriously need to leave onboard alone.
<AlanBell> that odd grey curve thing?
<charlie-tca> No, that is the only part of the card with good contrast
<charlie-tca> the entire top two-thirds of the card fades
<charlie-tca> The fade does not show up right in the screenshot. Trying to play, I can not hardly see anything outside the gray
<AlanBell> yeah, I think I see what you mean, on picture cards
<AlanBell> I can barely see the fade on regular cards
<charlie-tca> It shows bad on them here
<charlie-tca> I have used the ubuntu branding since they came up with it, but I can not use it any more.
<j1mc> charlie-tca: what problems is the branding causing you?
<charlie-tca> Can not read the suit nor the designator of the cards
<j1mc> ah
<charlie-tca> I can faded red or faded black
<charlie-tca> I can see faded red or faded black
<j1mc> charlie-tca: btw, i will be at UDS. would be good to meet up and go over docs / a11y stuff if you have time.
<charlie-tca> It actually looks like the cards are a very old, worn deck
<charlie-tca> j1mc: great! I will look forward to that
<j1mc> i don't have much experience with a11y, and want to make sure docs work ok with a11y features. 
<charlie-tca> Okay, we can do that.
<charlie-tca> I seem to be gaining experience
<j1mc> if there are other a11y people who will be there, i can talk with them, too. 
<j1mc> i just know you a little better from xubuntu stuff is all.  :)
<charlie-tca> No problem. Hajour should be there, and pleia2 and maco 
<Pendulum> and Cher703
<Pendulum> (she wants to do a lot more a11y this cycle)
<charlie-tca> Great!
<charlie-tca> So, who do we have to convince that the new scroll bars are bad, too?
<Pendulum> AlanBell: commented (short and to the point, but really you don't want me rambling at the moment because who knows what would have happened)
<JanC> maco / AlanBell : sladen worked as a programmer for a company that made DTP / typesetting software some time in the past, so he knows a thing about fonts & design  âº
<charlie-tca> You get to find a very small orangeish bars, about 1 x 2 pixel to click on now to get a scroll bar to use
<charlie-tca> Pendulum: that's why I rambled here. :-)
<AlanBell> JanC: yeah I know, I had a bit of involvement in some of the font testing and feedback
<Pendulum> charlie-tca: I'm doped up on pain meds and still trying to figure out if there's any way to avoid using my arms/neck/shoulders for the rest of the night
 * hypatia is thinking about building a braille display "emulator" so sighted testers can do QA without knowing braille
<JanC> charlie-tca: the new scroll bars might be useful for netbook size displays if you want to save space, but they lack features like the scroll one "page" up/down...
<charlie-tca> Pendulum: Sorry to hear that. I hope you to feeling better
<charlie-tca> JanC: and that does nothing to make them usable
<charlie-tca> They seem to lack the thing called "find the scroll bar easily" too
<charlie-tca> I seem to spend a lot of wasted time resizing the window when all I want to do is scroll
<JanC> well, if I could enable/disable them with a shortcut, I would use them sometimes, but for some programs they lack a lot in usability
<JanC> also teh fact that sometimes they are inside and sometimes outside is confusing
<JanC> inside or outside the widget that gets scrolled I mean
<charlie-tca> yup
<charlie-tca> one more of the "let's not make it accessible" decisions
<charlie-tca> j1mc|away: Onboard docs are at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Accessibility/OnboardAndMousetweaksAtGDM
<maco> JanC: wait the pgup/pgdn don't work with them? O_o
<JanC> maco: at least I don't know how to do it  ;)
<JanC> I mean pgup/pgdn by clicking the mouse between the "slider button" and the "arrow buttons"
<charlie-tca> I couldn't get anything to work except clicking on the arrows themselves
<JanC> hm, I drag the slider?
<JanC> you mean, those are buttons too ?  :P
<JanC> okay, apparently they are
<charlie-tca> you click on that little tiny slider?
<charlie-tca> I will try that next time
<JanC> nu, I thought the thing that pops up was the slider  ;)
<charlie-tca> Oh
<JanC> well, or a grip for the slider
<JanC> or whatever
<charlie-tca> I couldn't find anything there to move except to click the arrows
<JanC> you can click & drag it
<JanC> so mouse down + drag
<charlie-tca> I will have to try that, then.
<JanC> but I guess we just proved it is difficult to discover how it works
<charlie-tca> Everything about unity falls into that area
<charlie-tca> lol, at least we got more information that we started with
<AlanBell> the tiny scrollbars are in now?
<AlanBell> how do I turn them on?
<charlie-tca> They were just there in nautilus or docs or something when I was testing the beta2 images
<jbicha> only some applications have them by default
<AlanBell> ok not there in nautilus for me
<JanC> install liboverlay-scrollbar-0.1-0
<AlanBell> but I did some unwise recompilation of compiz and broke unity a few times
<charlie-tca> I just click on things in the launcher to test 
<JanC> and then kill & restart nautilus
<jbicha> AlanBell: you didn't install Gnome 3, did you?
<AlanBell> no, just compiz trunk
<charlie-tca> clicking on things seems to find stuff that makes life miserable or is broken. That's why I test 
<AlanBell> although I think I backed it all out again
<jbicha> I have the scrollbars in nautilus
 * AlanBell has tiny scrollbars
<jbicha> but if you install the experimental gnome 3 ppa, you'll be back to the old ones
<Pendulum> AlanBell: were they just so tiny you didn't see them?
<AlanBell> no, I didn't have liboverlay-scrollbar-0.1-0
<AlanBell> installed that and restarted nautilus and there they are
<AlanBell> teeny weeny
<JanC> and if you hover over the orange line, you get some sort of scroll thing
<charlie-tca> yeah, just try clicking on them when you need a 14pt font to read the screen
<AlanBell> yup the handle thingie
<JanC> which is apparently both for grab & drag as well as clicking
<AlanBell> yeah, bit odd the way it stops when you get close to it so you can click on it
<AlanBell> however works fine with compiz enhanced zoom
<JanC> I think it would be more useful to just have normal scroll bars pop up if you move the mouse near where they should be
<AlanBell> almost fine anyhow, there is a bit of mouse lag, but I think that is a performance issue on my VM
<AlanBell> why would that be more useful?
<AlanBell> mouse wheel scrolling still works
<JanC> try it on a nautilus window with 1000 files
 * AlanBell goes to /usr/bin
<AlanBell> works great
<charlie-tca> his eyes and hands work?
<JanC> I only get the thing to pop up when I hover over the orange part
<AlanBell> it would be nice to continuously scroll when you click and hold on half the handle
<JanC> you can drag if you want  ;)
<AlanBell> ah, maybe I need a narrower nautilus window
<charlie-tca> JanC: that's the problem I have. I have problems just finding the orange part
<AlanBell> I am finding the orange bar doesn't go totally small
<AlanBell> it has a minimum height
<JanC> charlie-tca: if it would pop up if you hover over the whole area where normally the scrollbar would be, wouldn't that be more useful?
<charlie-tca> how big is yours, mine was aproximately twice as high as it was wide
<charlie-tca> JanC: yes
<charlie-tca> That would be fantastic
<AlanBell> looks like the orange bar doesn't get smaller than half the height of the grab handle
<JanC> AlanBell: it's about 1/40th of the screen height  ;)
<JanC> maybe less of an issue on a netbook of course
<AlanBell> yes, not saying that the minimum height is good, just that if it was fully in proportion to the files in the list it should be less than a pixel high I should think!
<JanC> I also have the problem that I often move too far when I need it etc.
<charlie-tca> I guess I can only wish for hands and eyes that can use that thing. In the meantime, I will not be able to use unity
<JanC> or when your window is near the border of the screen it pops up on the inside, so you have to move your mouse to the border and then back
<JanC> but otherwise you have to move to the border of the window and then further
<AlanBell> charlie-tca: uninstall liboverlay-scrollbar-0.1-0 should get back to normal
<charlie-tca> and if it ever goes further than Ubuntu, those will be other systems I can't use
<JanC> charlie-tca: just disable that library  ;)
<JanC> s/disable/remove/
<AlanBell> personally I think this is a decent first effort that needs some refinement
<AlanBell> so how close to you have to be to the orange thing for the handles to come up
<AlanBell> interesting focus follows mouse effect too
<AlanBell> if the window doesn't have focus and the mouse cursor isn't over it then it fades to a light grey
<AlanBell> which is almost invisible
<AlanBell> however that isn't neccessarily a bad thing in this situation, it is supposed to be low contrast
<JanC> it als ojust disappears if you wait too long to use it  ;)
<AlanBell> really?
<AlanBell> there is an area to the left of the orange bar that makes the grab handle appear, nothing below or above
<AlanBell> JanC: oh, I see what you mean
<AlanBell> yeah, not sure I like that
<AlanBell> so where are the preferences for that then?
<AlanBell> can you make the handles bigger, and the orange bar minimum size bigger?
<JanC> wasn't it pushed into the repositories about a month after everybody else was forbidden to make UI changes or so?   ;)
<AlanBell> that is traditional though
<AlanBell> I can arguably construct a bug situation
<AlanBell> I had orca (an always-on-top window) to the right of nautilus
<AlanBell> so the grab handles appeared under orca
<JanC> heh, good point
<AlanBell> can do the same with two nautilus windows side by side with the one on the right set to always on top
<JanC> or whatever window-set-on-top
<JanC> i suppose
<AlanBell> of course
<AlanBell> it is a bit of a contrived scenario
<JanC> anyway, IMO it's not very professional to push untested UI changes in at a point when they can't be tested or fixed anymore...
<JanC> there is a reason why those freezes exist...
<charlie-tca> must have been the design team, then. They get away with that each release
<AlanBell> it was sabdfled early this month http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/615
<JanC> I know
<JanC> that doesn't make it professional  ;)
<Pendulum>  tbh, I suspect a lot of the late UI changes that look like they're from the design team are more sabdfl
<JanC> Pendulum: sabdfl is part of the design team
<JanC> but yeah, without his approval they probably couldn't do that
 * AlanBell is getting a late UI change to onboard through so isn't complaining too hard
<JanC> AlanBell: freeze exceptions exist for a reason
<JanC> e.g. to *fix* something
<JanC> not to break things  ;)
<JanC> (and nautilus has slightly more users than onboard too)
<AlanBell> I do agree
<AlanBell> I think the font last release was an equally huge and breakage prone thing to do
<JanC> well, that was at least tested somewhat
<AlanBell> heh, no
<Pendulum> JanC: I mean that he is the design team member who wants them in
<AlanBell> people looked at the glyphs and changed documents to the font
<AlanBell> they didn't change the default UI font to Ubuntu and look at the impact on applications
<JanC> AlanBell: I was using it as my default font and I'm sure many others did
<JanC> well, many of those who tested
<AlanBell> bug 629622
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 629622 in ubuntu-font-family-sources "MIR+FFE: Inclusion of Ubuntu Font Family ~0.69 in Maverick (10.10)" [Wishlist,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/629622
#ubuntu-accessibility 2011-04-22
<JanC> AlanBell: yeah, it got in late, but lots of people were beta-testing it by then (making it the default earlier would have been better though)
<JanC> although it's difficult to say if they did a systematic test of all locales  âº
<jbicha> hmm, Gnome Magnifier doesn't work for me
<charlie-tca> AlanBell: thank you for the write-up on making unity work in virtualbox! That is a great article
<charlie-tca> <jibel> charlie-tca, I did a screen reader install and it's really broken. it reads frm_liveinstaller, btn_forward, ... all the symbolic names of the widgets.
<maco> it was reading "go forward button" before...
<maco> i havent figured out yet how to make it say "install button" but i got instructions from ev for using accerciser, so that might be tonight
<maco> jibel: which daily was this on?
<charlie-tca> today
<charlie-tca> We are smoke testing the final candidates 
<maco> thats a regression from a week ago
<charlie-tca> We can't really win, huh?
<Pendulum> :(
<maco> im checking the revision history
<charlie-tca> jibel made another comment -
<charlie-tca> <jibel> charlie-tca, technically that's because ubiquity routinely set the atk_name of the widget to the value taken from the glade file. I think that's used to test ubiquity and be independant of the language but that breaks the a11y devices.
<charlie-tca> does that help?
<jibel> maco, I'm testing again I tested the right build.
<charlie-tca> Thanks, jibel 
<charlie-tca> We do keep trying ... 
<jibel> s/again/again to ensure/
<Pendulum> is the release team aware of the issues?
<maco> i dont know. i dont see any changes that look relevant
<maco> i dont think there's a chance of this being good in natty. too close to release :-/ 
<Pendulum> if we have 2 installers in a row borked (since Maverick is borked), it is not good :-/
<maco> jibel: when you were doing it, do you remember what the partition page was like? was that also just widget names?
<Pendulum> I'm just bringing up that it might be a good time to poke skaet since they're doing the release meeting right now
<maco> because as of the 19th or 20th, that shouldve read labels next to the radio buttons
<jibel> maco, that's what I'm checking, if it's ubiquity 2.6.5 or earlier. I'm testing so many image that I could have done a mistake. I'm double-checking.
<maco> ok
<maco> 2.6.6 is the one where the radio buttons should be correct
<charlie-tca> yes, release team is aware
<maco> (or maybe 2.6.7? i dont think "import atk" is actually needed since im pretty sure its automatic with gtk, but if it is...then 2.6.7 is the one that has the "import atk" line)
<charlie-tca> hm, is it possible for the blind user to do the install with the names being given?
<charlie-tca> Last orca install I did, I picked auto-login, and the screen-reader started with the desktop. It goes right to classic-desktop now. 
<jibel> maco, I confirm the problem with ubiquity 2.6.9
<jibel> first there is bug 749702
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 749702 in ubiquity ""Try Ubuntu" screen-reads as "Try $RELEASE"" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/749702
<jibel> then the window name of ubiquity reads live_installer
<maco> i wonder if this is related to the translation changes they made the last few days...
<jibel> maco, and all the buttons/radio buttons/checkbox reads the label then a smybolic name like
<maco> yeah i know they read the symbolic name after. i couldnt make it stop doing that. but the label being read *at all* is the important bit
<jibel> replace_partition, reuse_partition, custom_partition, timezone_city_entry, ...
<maco> there were changes to translation templates the last few days. i wonder if thats why variables are being read now
<jibel> maco, another thing, this the "install now" button reads forward
<maco> yes i know that
<maco> thats the one i saw saying above i was attempting to sort
<jibel> maco, ok so nothing new :-)
<maco> s/saw/was/
<jibel> maco, the weird name after the label is caused by this code in ubiquity/frontend/gtk_ui.py
<jibel>             widget.set_name(name)
<jibel>             atk_desc = widget.get_accessible()
<jibel>             atk_desc.set_name(name)
<jibel> it calls it routinely and set the id of the object from the glade file to the atk name
<maco> i wondered what that was doing...
<maco> that was added in december
<maco> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-installer/ubiquity/trunk/revision/4461
<maco> jibel: im guessing ev thought that was better-than-nothing
<maco> if we remove it, it'd probably stop the say-label-then-var thing, but itd probably also stop having anything said *at all* for most stuff :-/
<AlanBell> bug 769104
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 769104 in onboard "default layout always loaded due to gconf key handling error" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/769104
<AlanBell> I will fix that one, but not going to jump up and down and stamp my feet to get it into Natty pre-release
<JanC> it can go in the day after release...
<JanC> or so
<JanC> or next week if that's still allowed
<maco> could get a 0-day sru
<AlanBell> yeah, got to fix it first
<AlanBell> and it will expose the fact that I didn't recolour the "Full" keyboard layout so I have to do that too
<AlanBell> and the Full-Dark layout which is white text on dark keycaps
<AlanBell> and it is all going to be a 0day SRU now
<AlanBell> http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/onboardfulldark.png is the reversed colour layout as it stands today
<AlanBell> although a bug prevents it from actually being available
<AlanBell> curious what charlie-tca and others think of it
#ubuntu-accessibility 2011-04-23
<zippo^> wow!
<charlie-tca> looking
<charlie-tca> AlanBell: I really liked the article on VBox use with unity. I bookmarked it for reference to people
<charlie-tca> AlanBell: Looks good from my "can't actually see white on black very good" eyes
<charlie-tca> I think it the letters are very easy to spot, and I like the contrast change for the letter kjeys
<charlie-tca> I am probably the worst person there is for looking at black backgrounds
 * maco lowers screen brightness, then looks at AlanBell's screenshot agian
<maco> AlanBell: ok, i like it
<maco> (photophobic, too much white...ow)
<Pendulum> AlanBell: so now that we have this all sorted, can we focus on getting Caribou working on Ubuntu? :-)
<charlie-tca> maco: does it need to be tinted gray just a little?
<maco> charlie-tca: that'd be better for my eyes, yes
<maco> though if i keep my screen brightness as low as it goes before the backlight turns off, it's fine
<maco> (which is what i frequently do)
<charlie-tca> Then it might be perfect for those who need a high contrast screen
<Fudge> hi
<AlanBell> maco: charlie-tca: my view on the reversed display is that the F key text is too small (easy fix, they are in the same sizing group as "pause" at the moment)
<AlanBell> the numeric keys should be a different colour to the alpha keys
<AlanBell> or rather the alpha keys should have their own colour, not shared with space and punctuation
<AlanBell> the greeny/yellowy background to the alpha keys is not the most pleasant of colours and it makes them the lowest contrast keys on the keyboard
<AlanBell> there seems to be enough green in the background that it isn't a big issue, but nobody can read white on yellow even with perfect vision
<AlanBell> (great combo for explaining to people what the issues are with impaired vision btw)
<AlanBell> I am breaking the keyboard up into more colour groups than they have done in the past
<AlanBell> I will probably do a "primary school" version of it
<AlanBell> maybe with comic sans :)
#ubuntu-accessibility 2011-04-24
<hajour1> hi all short time here.if everything go all right i will have tomorrow again a second hand pc for to use or day after that
<hajour1> Pendulum, ^
<hajour1> o sorry you probarly are sleeping
<hajour1> everytime foget the time barrier
<hajour1> goodnight all
<webczat> Hey, what is the status of ubuntu accessibility for 11.04?
<webczat> Actually I mean at-spi/sorca
<webczat> s/orca
<maco> webczat: orca seems to work ok, though ubiquity (the installer on the live cd) is not very accessible
<Pendulum> webczat: installing using an accessibility profile will default back to Classic Gnome rather than Unity, however
<webczat> what is inaccessible in ubiquity?
<webczat> also another question: does ubuntu-11 have newer gnome? i know it does not have gnome shell, but that does not mean it doesn't have other components. especially, I mean control center, gdm or others.
<charlie-tca> webczat: Ubuntu 11.04 has Gnome 3.2
<charlie-tca> no
<charlie-tca> webczat: Ubuntu 11.04 has Gnome 2.32
<charlie-tca> it does not have gnome 3
<maco> webczat: ubiquity's explanatory text and page titles aren't read, and the timezone setting thing doesn't work well from the keyboard
<maco> webczat: also, the things that are read out are the variable names for the interactive elements. most make some sense (user underscore name) so you can get through it, but it's not very good
<webczat> about ubuntu and gnome, i don't think it's a real 2.32 but I may be wrong, I heart it has a new orca and (probably optional) new at-spi, it doesn't have gnome-shell, but what about other things? is it really like it doesn't have any newer component?
<charlie-tca> I don't know which libraries and applications may have been used. There could be some new ones included
<webczat> hmm, looking through, i don't see the control center newer than 2.32.
<webczat> maco: about ubiquity, the timezone selection isn't a problem because ubuntu installer always selected a valid one.
<charlie-tca> anything that requires gnome3 will not be higher than 2.32, since gnome3 is not included
<webczat> orca doesn't require it, right?
<webczat> actually gnome3 could be partially included, like even without gnome-shell. it wouldn't hurt.
<charlie-tca> gnome3 is not included, it requires separate installation from a ppa 
<charlie-tca> The version of Orca used does not require gnome3, no.
<webczat> what's the accessibility status of gnome3 on natty?
<charlie-tca> It is not supported
<charlie-tca> Gnome3 is not included in Natty
<charlie-tca> !gnome3
<ubot2> Factoid 'gnome3' not found
<webczat> I know it's not supported, but it's possible someone tested that.
<webczat> So I'm asking.
<webczat> Also, what about at-spi2?
<webczat> I know that it's available.
<webczat> At least I think so
<maco> *blink blink*
<maco> i just got told on the kde-accessibility list that all of Qt is accessible and 4.6 has a screenreader
<webczat> I heart that it has.
<webczat> but...
<webczat> at-spi is more important cause I don't wana select between qt and gtk apps, and I also heart that kde's builtin screenreader is not as functional as orca, but not sure.
<maco> i just installed kaccessibility like the person on the mailing list told me, and it put an icon in the tray (useful if you're blind, i'm sure...) and i clicked it and checked the "enable screenreader" checkbox, and i have yet to hear a peep from it
<charlie-tca> I thought it did not work ?
<maco> as far as i can tell, it doesn't
<maco> people on kde-accessibility list claim Qt and KDE have full accessibility support
<maco> i'm not seein' it
<charlie-tca> whew! at least my memory has not failed completely then :-)
<charlie-tca> heh, people at Canonical claim Ubuntu does too, but it is always those who don't use it saying so
<webczat> actually ubuntu is more accessible than some distros using gnome.
<charlie-tca> To be fair, Ubuntu is pretty good with accessibility. 
<charlie-tca> We are making good gains with the developers.
<maco> also, orca doesn't see konsole
<maco> so um...
<webczat> I was using 2 ubuntu versions and I agree.
<webczat> maco: orca doesn't see the real text console/xterm but it sees gnome-terminal.
<webczat> and orca wasn't and will never be designed for console, the console can be speech-enabled if you use speakup.
<webczat> and it's included since linux kernel .37, and requires only a connector bridging it to espeak, or a hardware synth.
<webczat> it only has localization problems but is extremely usable when working
<webczat> Did you tested this kde screenreading thingy that does not work?
<webczat> i would but I don't have kde4.6 I think :)
<charlie-tca> maco said they tried it, which started us talking about it
<webczat> mhm
<webczat> is it possible something changed from the time when they tested it?
<charlie-tca> anything is possible, but AFAIR, it never has worked
<webczat> actually how it didn't work? like what happened when someone tried to use it?
 * webczat waits impatiently for qt-at-spi, I wana see kde
<charlie-tca> like it doesn't really work. no sound
<webczat> hmm, maybe it's just a synthesizer problem, not a screenreader side?
<webczat> I'll see if I'll want to test it when I'll have 11.04, they include the new kde, am I right?
<charlie-tca> I don't know which version of kde is in 11.04
<charlie-tca> I know orca works for me in Xubuntu and Ubuntu, but not Kubuntu
<maco> charlie-tca: 4.6.3 in 11.04
<webczat> i heart it's 4.6. also, i think that making a kde screenreader makes no sense, because there is orca and evolwing qt-at-spi bridge, unless this screenreader will itself have at-spi support.
<maco> and im on natty
<maco> webczat: doesnt work, like totally silent. and i HAVE used orca here before, and that was fine with gnome apps. orca is silent with kde apps, and kaccessibleapp is silent, period
<webczat> maco: but isn't it a problem like you didn't set QT_ACCESSIBILITY env variable or something?
<maco> if you have to do something that arcane, that's a bug
<webczat> I mean i don't know how it works, maybe it shows up when the variable is not set too
<maco> anyway, my message back to the list was "OK, uh...how does it work? *steps i took that failed*"
<webczat> maco: yeah, that's. but this has a reason similar to "accessibility slows anything down"
<webczat> maco: can you please try testing the kaccessibleapp after setting QT_ACCESSIBILITY to 1 somehow? I'm interested in this but I really don't have any way to test that.
<webczat> I actually wait for non-beta release in few days.
<webczat> if it's possible to set this before kde startup and then start kde and run the screenreader
<webczat> would be fun to look at it
<maco> ok so i set that var, then i started it and now if i right click on the icon it reads the dropdown of it to me
<maco> "speak text" tells me to type the text and press ok
<maco> i wonder if its only going to read apps i launch *after* it?
<maco> umm...noe
<maco> *nope
<maco> it doesnt read the launcher at all. if i start up konsole after having started the screenreader, i still get nothing
<webczat> maco: yes, but you can somehow force it to happen before kde startup, right? like in some xsession thingy
<webczat> it just can't do it cause applications don't expose accessibility info at all without this variable set, I read about it somewhere. actually the same as gnome but it has GTK_MODULES
<maco> ok, so i just launched a new konsole with that var, and this time it opened and said "shell" and when i typed "ls" it said "43"
<maco> (orca would've read the list)
<maco> if i cat a file, it said "51"
<maco> TheMuso: ev's instructions are for an ldtp test script, but there's nothing in there about making accerciser go, just the actual tests. the only relevant thing is that ubiquity is started with sudo, which, yeah, *i know* 
<maco> TheMuso: looks like the way his script is able to find ubiquity is by being the parent process, but accerciser can't launch child processes that i can find
<webczat> maco: as I sait, can you somehow force the var to be always set? maybe the screenreader is worse than orca, but maybe it really works?
<maco> yeah i could put it in kde startup to make it affect all Qt apps, but the part where it doesn't work well on the ones it has been told to affect is disheartening
<maco> just tried Kate with it. doesn't read back what i'm typing :-/
<webczat> maco: terminal is one thing. what about, say, launcher, panel, calculator? maybe it works on more things than it does not?
<maco> oh how odd. it reads the highlighted thing *inside* the menu before it reads the menu name
<maco> launcher would require that i set it to auto-start then log out
<maco> and as i'm in the midst of a compile, i'm not up for loggin gout
<webczat> mhm
<maco> but i just tried a text editor, Kate, as i said
<webczat> maco: the thing about typing text is not bad cause echo can be disabled by default and it's not a bad thing, some people like it. but i didn't understand the part about menus...?
<maco> webczat: when the menus drop down, it reads the first item in the menu, then the menu name
<maco> in KCalc, it doesn't read the buttons
<maco> oh i see
<maco> it reads them if you tab, just not if you mouse
<webczat> and that is normal
<maco> webczat: there's no way to enable echoing as far as i can tell
<maco> the menus are read for both mouse and tab
<charlie-tca> Well, that's logical. blind can't really use the mouse so good
<maco> though partially-sighted can
<webczat> orca also doesn't track the mouse this way by default
<maco> how odd
<maco> i tabbed to 9, then hit space to activate it, and it said "6"
<maco> (yes six, not space)
<webczat> hahaha.
<webczat> why 6?
<maco> no idea
<webczat> does it actually make sense? like did you write something to the calc?
<maco> also:  from sighted-me: ewww at the packing on the widgets in this window. they're all smashed up to the right when it's maximised
<maco> no it doesn't make sense
<maco> activating the 9 key said 6
<maco> go figure
<maco> it didn't do it again, so oh wlel
<maco> er... and x cubed says "x sub 3 slash sub"
<maco> i will not be using a calculator this way any time soon
<webczat> I'm blind, if i'll get there for kde, I can test it, but not now cause I don't have ubuntu 11.04
<webczat> it starts to be interesting, don't you think?
<maco> im finding it just plain weird
<maco> i started konqueror (the old web browser / file browser thing) and it said "zero. sixty-one."
<webczat> what about manual typing numbers and pressing = or enter or how it is commanded to calculate?
<webczat> and, does tabbing or arrowing work on konqueror?
<maco> i went to kde.org in konqueror and it told me 25 60 89 76 50 32
<webczat> lol
<maco> i see nothing gaining or losing focus when i tab
<webczat> it starts to be fun
<maco> i'm going with "totally accessible my arse"
<webczat> this can be because it doesn't have special support for browsers, not bad, orca didn't have it for firefox 2.x for example
<webczat> and epiphany. orca3 probably does. does orca read webkit things now as they promised?
<maco> the version in natty does not
<webczat> hmmmm
<maco> it is silent throughout the webkit slideshow in ubiquity
<maco> i think it says something like "webkit content" and then shuts up
<webczat> argh again...
<webczat> it should. unless you can arrow or flat-review thru?
<webczat> also it may be too old webkit
<maco> i arrowed down and it said 10 60 70 80 50 40 30 20
<maco> (in konq again)
<webczat> heehehehe
<webczat> fun.
<webczat> hmm, i'm near laughing.
<webczat> but it's still a lot better than you thought. it probably needs years or months of work.
<AlanBell> o/ webczat 
<webczat> o/ AlanBell 
<maco> though with it not being at-spi, that means mixing qt apps and everything-else-out-there is rather hard
<webczat> I'd also willing to test, in any way possible, qt at-spi thing. it needs to be downloaded (svn, git or somehow unfortunately), compiled and installed, then someone should try starting gnome with it, setting QT_ACCESSIBILITY to 1, start orca and run something in qt. but at-spi2 needs to be enabled.
<webczat> and installed using apt-get
<webczat> you probably can do it for kde if you set GTK_MODULES I think
<webczat> there was some mail on the orca list for how to do it but... probably not hard if you find the repo
<webczat> it's on github I think
<webczat> does someone want to look? i'll anyway try to do it when I'll have possibilities. like with skype.
<maco> Pendulum: turns out there's some a11y in qt. its just...weird
<maco> Pendulum: see scrollback
<webczat> erm I found the url
<webczat> it's git://gitorious.org/qt-at-spi/qt-at-spi.git
<maco> i think its packaged in natty
<maco> im pretty sure actually. someone asked in here for that, and then Riddell also asked for people to test the package
<maco> except, i cant *find* the binary package
<maco> apt doesn't know about it
<webczat> maco: qt-at-spi can't be packaged, because it has not been released yet, unless my informations are not up to date enought.
<webczat> ahh, it's alpha. so no possibilities to put it there
<maco> alphas can be packaged...
<webczat> maco: do you have at-spi1 or 2?
<webczat> maco: maybe, but I don't think they usually are
<maco> 1
<maco> i know it was packaged. it was on REVU. Riddell sponsored it.
<webczat> maco: if you want to test it, you need to switch to at-spi 2. depends on you but I think it's a good fun.
<maco> unles it just plain failed to build...
<webczat> i don't know if at-spi2 fully works in ubuntu, but...
<webczat> if it does, someone can test the bridge
<maco> oh i see
<webczat> i have it. will try to build it.
<maco> he packaged it and was still looking for reviewers
<maco> and then ignored the review about the lintian error in march :P
<webczat> what error?
<maco> (i have no room to talk as i have been very useless this cycle)
<maco> the debian/copyright file has an old FSF address
<maco> lintian checks the package metadata
<maco> er, warning, not error
<webczat> mhm
<maco> i'll have to play with at-spi2 and qt-at-spi and orca and see if they all get along later. its 3h past lunchtime
<webczat> actually it's not so difficult to make a switch to 2
<maco> kdebindings takes ages to build!
<webczat> erm I'm not happy cause I can't test it.
<maco> this build has been going for 4 hours
<webczat> hem hem, i really, really do not want to remind for myself how long it took to build the whole kde on pentium4! but this was kde3
<webczat> one day I think, or more, not sure
<webczat> erhm, btw, what about java accessibility? like running policytool with gnome and orca? didn't work in 10.10
<maco> ah! full explanation of the QAccessible/KAccessible/Qt-at-spi thing:  http://lists.kde.org/?l=kde-accessibility&m=130367179023658&w=2
<maco> Pendulum, TheMuso ^
<webczat> mmmm
<webczat> maco: do you plan telling them what actually happens? :)
<maco> webczat: in another message in that thread, i said that it reads menus but just gives numbers when it comes to Konsole or Konqueror
<webczat> and calculator too? :d
<maco> yes, i mentioned it saying 6 when i activated 9
<webczat> heh, it's fun, really
<webczat> but it's good that they made a start
<webczat> when will you test at-spi2 thing?
 * webczat is interested in this
<webczat> btw, what does ubuntu use for gksu? or does it use gksu?
<phillw> webczat: if you are calling a gui proamme  then gksu is recpmmenedened for the rare times ypu need su access.,
<phillw> you can really mess up permissions and ownership of prgrammes and data, su is a onloy to be really used as a emergencency recovery tool.
<webczat> but synaptic used gksu, as well as some other gui tools.
<webczat> like firewall, nanny, etc
<AlanBell> webczat: gksudo
<webczat> AlanBell: does it have the same accessibility problems as gksu?
<AlanBell> I think there was some cunning bridging plan that happened
 * webczat needs to wait for 11.04 and check that out
<webczat> i mean, 4 days
<webczat> just for sure... is it safe to upgrade, or do i need to reinstall? like i heart that the system upgrade can break some things.
<AlanBell> webczat: it has the same problems :(
<webczat> like the system
<webczat> can't they do it another way?
<AlanBell> the upgrade should work and is supported
<AlanBell> sorry, I just tried "gksudo gedit" and orca could not see my gedit window
<AlanBell> some applications now use policykit and run mostly as the normal user
<AlanBell> software centre would be an example of this
<AlanBell> you choose the apps you want as a normal user, then to install you put your password in (and it does read you the password dialog) but there is no user interface exposed that belongs to root
<TheMuso> maco: Yeah I am on that list.
<TheMuso> Still doesn't solve the upcoming QML disaster though.
<JanC> gksudo is just a symlink to gksu  ;)
<JanC> $ ls -l `which gksudo`
<JanC> lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 4 2011-03-29 15:12 /usr/bin/gksudo -> gksu*
#ubuntu-accessibility 2012-04-16
<Dave_Hunt> Good Morning!  
<JanC> hm, interresting... http://screenfont.ca/fonts/today/708/
<JanC> and I think that site has more interesting stuff...
#ubuntu-accessibility 2012-04-18
<Fudge> howdy all
#ubuntu-accessibility 2012-04-19
<Dave_Hunt> Hello, Ubuntans!  
#ubuntu-accessibility 2012-04-20
<DomasoFan562> hi all
<DomasoFan> will the HUD be accessible in the final version of ubuntu 12.04?
<tsimpson> DomasoFan: what is available now is what will be available on release, we're already long past feature freeze
<DomasoFan> tsimpson: ah ok.
<AlanBell> DomasoFan: it might be, andyrock was working on it today
<AlanBell> unity3d launcher and dash started talking again for the first time since beta1
<AlanBell> tsimpson: accessibility generally gets some attention after final freeze
<AlanBell> would be nice if it was a bit more testable before final freeze, but hey here we are again with stuff being fixed in the last week
<DomasoFan> AlanBell: cool. guess they might not put in new orca and at-spi though but yeah. looks quite good currently with the newest updates.
<DomasoFan> AlanBell: installed it here on a 2 ghz 2 gb ram 100 gb hd laptop. very responsive.
<AlanBell> DomasoFan: this ppa has unity3d that works somewhat https://code.launchpad.net/~andyrock/+archive/unity-a11y
<AlanBell> dash icons are not spoken and the hud doesn't really work
<DomasoFan> AlanBell: hmm. the hud also has issues in 2d currently. but let's see what we are getting in the final release which is dated on the 26th.
<DomasoFan> but its cool how good accessibility got from 11.10 and up. when i just remember the accessibility in pre 11.10. ;-)
<AlanBell> there might be some stuff in the final release and some stuff in 0day SRU updates on the 27th
<DomasoFan> AlanBell: that sounds interesting. have you also seen that the language selection thing in the system settings is not accessible? it seems not talking when you go there.
<AlanBell> yes, I think there is a bug about that
<DomasoFan> is there a work around to install language packs? in the login screen i saw there in the indicator menu you can select the language too.
<DomasoFan> ah found there is a section pn packages.ubuntu.com where language packs are listed.
<DomasoFan> ah no. those are just for libre office and other tools.
<DomasoFan> ah found it now. seems to be that: http://packages.ubuntu.com/precise/translations/
<DomasoFan> seems not to work. same if you change the language in the user's settings.
<kendell> hi all
<AlanBell> hi kendell 
<kendell> AlanBell:  hi
<kendell> have been testing the latest precise daily build. It works great but either unity, nautilous or some accessibility component is very sluggish, because nautilus is extremely sluggish. I'm not sure how to determine which
<kendell> yay, successfully compiled orca on precise, I've never done  that before, I kept getting errors
#ubuntu-accessibility 2012-04-21
<skaet> kendall,  could https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/980924 be the culprit for the sluggish ness you're seeing?    Its scheduled to go in as an SRU fix.
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 980924 in unity "[regression] Dash keeps repainting unnecessarily" [High,Fix committed]
<skaet> Possible work around if it is,  is to disable either the "active" or "static" blur.
<skaet> if it is,  please comment in the bug.
<skaet> :)
<AlanBell> morning all
<AlanBell> I am starting to draft some release notes for 12.04 accessibility features http://pad.ubuntu.com/accessibility-2012-04-20release-20notes
<chilicuil> hi there, I've just wanted to give a hand, and started testing the latest ubuntu iso, following the testcase http://testcases.qa.ubuntu.com/Install/DesktopAccessibility I found that when I select Â«spanishÂ» in the lang option in ubiquity, orca reads spanish text using the Â«enÂ» voice and it sounds weird, I'd like to fill a bug report, however I'm not sure agains what package it should been done
<chilicuil> I created bug 986711 for the issue
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 986711 in gnome-orca "Orca don't change its voice preferences when ubiquity does" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/986711
#ubuntu-accessibility 2013-04-15
<Fudge> say he is not using gnome
#ubuntu-accessibility 2013-04-20
<Fudg> AlanBell  g'day
#ubuntu-accessibility 2014-04-17
<moza> Hello
#ubuntu-accessibility 2016-04-18
<aclaudem> Does the Unity/compiz zoom follow keyboard focus? (I don't use a mouse)
