#ubuntustudio-devel 2010-03-29
<jussi01> Do we currently have a leader?
<ScottL> jussi01, my answer would be, "effectively, no."
<jussi01> ScottL: thats what I thought...
<jussi01> can haz leader pls kthxbai
<rlameiro> good morning
<rlameiro> does anyone had the same thing? after install, ubuntustudio didnft installed either network manager either wicd?
<jussi01> rlameiro: thats right. 
<jussi01> rlameiro: everyone should have that.
<jussi01> iirc, its available for install on the DVD, but not installed by default.
<rlameiro> should i file a bug on thet?
<jussi01> no
<jussi01> Its intentional
<rlameiro> intentional?
<jussi01> Ubuntustudio machines are meant to be offline.
<rlameiro> jussi01: i understand that if you want to use it for music production, but what about multimedia performances
<rlameiro> there are alot of things that need networking
<jussi01> rlameiro: thats why it is on the dvd. 
<rlameiro> for example puredata using netsen/netreceive
<jussi01> So you dont have to somehow get online with out it.
<rlameiro> or for example OSC
<jussi01> rlameiro: yes, I dont doubt there are applications that need it.
<rlameiro> i dont have a problem installing it, it is easy, and i have done it for  past releases, but it should be friendlyer for the firstcomers
<jussi01> rlameiro: the normal usecase doesnt need it.
<rlameiro> jussi01: ok, so what would be the normal use cas?
<rlameiro> case*
<rlameiro> is it an Audio Production unit?
<scott-work> lol jussi01 "can haz.."
<scott-work> rlameiro: I wasn't part of the decision making on this but this is how I view it
<scott-work> using the assumption that it was installed by default first
<scott-work> it makes it a no-brainer for people who need wifi, but it might make someone unaware about it recording audio to loose audio (which is lost forever)
<rlameiro> well, i really dont think that the majority of the useres use ubuntustudio in a sandbox
<rlameiro> a lot of people use it on their laptops
<jussi01> rlameiro: thats not the feedback we received.
<scott-work> in the other case (not installed by default) people who need it can always install it from disc and the audio recording guy will not miss audio, so if weighing consequences this seems a prudent solution right now
<rlameiro> maybe we should try to have some kind of info retrieval , to have an idea of how many users exist, and what they use the system for
<jussi01> rlameiro: would be nice........ 
<scott-work> i have too considered using Studio on a laptop, but it was to be used as portable recording for jamming with the band
<rlameiro> as I said before, i dont have a problem with it, i can installit myself easily.
<rlameiro> scott-work: i used ubuntustudio as my primary computer
<rlameiro> and it performs very well
<rlameiro> when i need to do intensive audio i just go to the panel and disconnect wireless networking
<rlameiro> it is much easier
<rlameiro> bu that is me
<rlameiro> i dont make "studio" work often
<rlameiro> maybe this come in the idea some of had before, to add different choice to ubuntustudio
<rlameiro> like multimedia or Unimedia packages
<rlameiro> things like pd-extended, arduino, processing etc
<rlameiro> but anyway, maybe the best solution is to make a PDF file and put it on the desktop when you first boot
<scott-work> if the dev and community base for ubuntu studio was bigger then that would be fantastic (different flavours of studio), but currently i fear we are on the precipice of falling apart
<rlameiro> and inform the users that they can install networking making this and setting audio preferences like that etc
<rlameiro> can it be done for this release?
<rlameiro> or the feature freeze doesnt allow it?
<rlameiro> scott-work: what would be needed to the ubuntustudio stay afloat?
<rlameiro> more devs? what kind of devs?
<rlameiro> I can try to recruit some people
<scott-work> rlameiro: my thought is that additional knowledgeable devs are needed, specifically:
<scott-work> someone who knows how ISOs are made and can troubleshoot when things aren't built correclty (uninstalable binaries, etc)
<scott-work> someone who udnerstands themes and how they are created (including metacity and murrine engine)
<scott-work> someoen to give the project a direction (stochastic and I did that somewhat with a push for lv2 packages for lucid)
<scott-work> someone as a community liaison to communicate with the community
<scott-work> document lead to help create what the community needs to use and help us
<rlameiro> well, i cant design good, lol 
<rlameiro> but I can help on making some help files
<rlameiro> and be on the forums and IRC
<scott-work> also a testing lead who knowlegably understand what tests are needed and can community to the community (and other devs) what to do and how to document it
<scott-work> rlameiro: showing a presence on the forums and IRC is as important as well and thank you for doing it :)
<rlameiro> maybe we should push some call for help
<rlameiro> I could try to get into some podcast for them to ask for help
<rlameiro> maybe opensource musicians podcast
<rlameiro> or linux outlaws?
<rlameiro> what do you think about the idea?
<rlameiro> and maybe we need also some webdesign help
<scott-work> those suggestions echo what I have been thinking (although I forgot about OSM) but I was hoping we could be organized about it though
<rlameiro> ok
<scott-work> i have other suggestions as well but I wanted to clearly organized them and then present them to others
<rlameiro> I can speak directly with the OSM host
<rlameiro> and one of the OSM host speak regularly with the linuxoutlaws host
<scott-work> yes, i heard your podcast interview with them :)    hopefully, other interviews can be scheduled with other podcasts as well
<rlameiro> i am in the moment in #ubuntu-artwork to see if someone is interested in making art for US
<scott-work> new artwork for lucid may be too late at this point, but we can always use it later though
<rlameiro> scott-work: I think one problem for ubuntustudio is the release schedule
<rlameiro> is to fast, so i think internally people should aim maybe for feature in yearly basis
<rlameiro> like making an intremediate release and a big realease
<rlameiro> like art work , themes and other things ike that
<rlameiro> makingnew themes every 6 months for ubuntustudio is difficult with a small artwork team
<scott-work> there had been disucssion about limited new artwork for just new releases or something similar (i wasn't part of that either, i've just read IRC chatter about it)
<scott-work> s/limited/limiting
<rlameiro> ok
<scott-work> s/new/LTS
<rlameiro> so it is not new
<rlameiro> yea, LTS versoins should have a new version indeed
<scott-work> sorry English is my native language and speak (or type it) so poorly sometimes in haste
<scott-work> discussion had been to limit new artwork or themes to LTS versions only
<scott-work> that is what I believe
<rlameiro> I like that idea
<rlameiro> well we should try to work to have it at least for the next release
<rlameiro> and then concentrate on new features and correcting problems
<rlameiro> I am thinking in making a kind of ubuntustudio Config panel
<rlameiro> something with ubuntustudio controls + another things
<rlameiro> maybe using the script that  archlinux has for audio
<rlameiro> with some preconfigured things
<rlameiro> like networking yes/no
<rlameiro> kernel RT
<rlameiro> software outside ubunturepos etc
<rlameiro> It will be made in python
<rlameiro> but for now, what i think is more pressing for the community side of the thing is have a more dynamic website
<rlameiro> maybe with showcase, screencast
<rlameiro> how tos
<rlameiro> etc
<rlameiro> i know most of this thing does exist, but arent on the ubuntustudio webpage
<scott-work> absolutely, screencasts and how tos are good ideas
<rlameiro> it would help if it was
<scott-work> i thought about an online jukebox to feature studio made audio
<rlameiro> so maybe we need desperatly a web designer/scripter ASAP
<rlameiro> packager cant do all the work
<scott-work> very true
<rlameiro> i am very bad on that, i am strgling to make my own drupal website
<scott-work> heh, done that same and stalled
<rlameiro> but i think that ultimately the problem relyes on the ubuntustudio exposure
<rlameiro> even for canonical
<rlameiro> if exist more exposure, maybe they wil assign someone of the team to help
<scott-work> i'm hoping to evelate ubuntu studio's "presence"
<rlameiro> who is in charge of the webpage at the moment?
<scott-work> hopefully this will increase community use and support (testing, bug reporting, transitioning to developers)
<scott-work> cory was and I think stochastic is sort-of at the moment
<scott-work> stochastic was supposed to set up a meeting for those interesting including detrate who expressed interest and had been working on a few things
<scott-work> but it hasn't happened lately, stochastic hasn't been very involved lately
<scott-work> re: python and ubuntustudio config panel - i like the idea of adding functionality to ubuntustudio-controls and some of your ideas i think should be addressed
<scott-work> perhaps a rewrite of the UI and addition of functionality is in order
<scott-work> i would suggest, however, to incorporate it into the ubuntustudio-controls package as it is already in the archives
<rlameiro> well, i will try to make some knd of mock up of the ui for people review
<rlameiro> yes of course
<rlameiro> i will be ubuntustudio controls, it has no logic otherwise
<rlameiro> there is a package a ppa etc
<scott-work> rlameiro: can you come up with a list of functions or features you think should be included in ubuntustudio-controls (wireless, etc) in addition to it's present functions?
<rlameiro> in PDF?
<rlameiro> scott-work: or in some wiki?
<scott-work> you might also look at this to see if it generates any ideas as well    http://www.sandgreen.dk/index.php?side=python_uat
<rlameiro> scott-work: I also speaked with the Opensourcemusicinas podcast for some caal for help
<scott-work> i would like to use this list so gather other's thoughts and ideas as well so I would suggest mailing the -dev list
<rlameiro> they will squeeze it into some next podcast
<scott-work> it would frustrating to work in isolation and complete it only to have someone say, "oh, you should have added this really awesome feature also!"
<rlameiro> of course
<rlameiro> I think i saw somewhere on the forums some app for setting ausio optionsoptions 
<rlameiro> i am not sure if it was this or not
<rlameiro> i will need to digg it up
<scott-work> rlameiro: i also want you to be aware that some of your suggestions may be rejected for reasons that you may not agree with, but we have to work within the collective group
<rlameiro> scott-work: I am no a pro coder
<rlameiro> far from that
<rlameiro> and i will accept the different views of everyone
<scott-work> it's not the coding, there are politics involved as well, just like getting JACK into the main was a laborious process when most Studio involved people thought it should have been a given
<rlameiro> yeap, that was a hard one
<scott-work> but I am encouraged by and support your enthusiasm.  I look forward to reading your suggestions and seeing what the group will offer by way of suggestions, moderations or criticisms
<scott-work> I couldn't get jack-beat to work in lucid alpha3 and beta1, will someone else try as well before I file a bug?  I tried the -testers mail list but no one has replied (and I don't think they will)
<rlameiro> scott-work: https://files.one.ubuntu.com/q19pn6SnQ8W3SuEIVr2QfA
<scott-work> heh, i'm at work, rlameiro, using windows, i'll get that when I get home
<rlameiro> https://files.one.ubuntu.com/XG8iE4f-SPy04uiFb9EFPw
<rlameiro> get this one
<rlameiro> pdf
<rlameiro> the other is a inkscape SVG
<rlameiro> where can i put this to the other to see?
<rlameiro> and comment?
<rlameiro> is it there some blueprints on ubuntustudio controls?
<scott-work> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntustudio-controls
<scott-work> but posting to the -dev mail list is still a really good idea to make people informed about it, they will not check here without nofitication
<rlameiro> ok
<scott-work> rlameiro: this page has a good guide for UI under 1)    https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntustudio-controls/+spec/intrepid-ui-redesign
<scott-work> maybe divide the UI for new users and experienced/advanced users (even just visually and not with an 'advanced' button that shows more options)
<scott-work> but if we had a list of features or options then we could see about categorizing them
<rlameiro> the idea is to have a list of general settings on the left and then the real setting on the right
<rlameiro> it coiuld be implemented on the right
<rlameiro> maybe like the VLC settingss
<rlameiro> mail sended to the mailing list
<rlameiro> this is maybe a mater to the dev mailing listvonly isnt it?
<rlameiro> if not i can post it also to the user list
<scott-work> i'd suggest we hit the -dev group first for sanity then maybe later send a prototype to the -user list for suggestions maybe
<rlameiro> ok
<rexium> hey troy_s
<troy_s> Greets rexium
<troy_s> Sup?
<rexium> Lots, I'm going to graduate in June :)
<rexium> troy_s: what's new with you?
<troy_s> rexium: Congrats on the graduation!
<troy_s> rexium: I have a photoshoot for ex-Skinny Puppy types.
 * rexium googles Skinny Puppy
<troy_s> rexium: C'mon.
<troy_s> rexium: If you know NIN you should know Skinny Puppy
<rexium> troy_s: lol, you think too highly of me
<rexium> I'll check them out
<rexium> but that's really cool
<rexium> troy_s: i've been super out of touch with ubuntu studio, have you been involved at all?
<troy_s> rexium: Never really been involved with studio.
<rexium> troy_s: ever want to take on art direction ;)
<troy_s> rexium: It's a helluva lot of work.
<troy_s> rexium: And my time has been horrible.
<rexium> troy_s: good busy I hope :)
<troy_s> rexium: Yes and no.
<scott-work> troy_s: wow, i used to listen to skinny puppy in '86 or '87
<scott-work> vivasect or something like that was the album
<scott-work> troy_s: i'm still working my way through the index you suggested, it's bloody amazing, it all makes sense but it's stuff that i've never been concious of before
<troy_s> scott-work: Glad to hear it.
<troy_s> scott-work: And yes... Skinny Puppy's roots go deep. The band I am shooting is Willhelm's offshoot with ties to Chemlab / Ministry / etc.
<troy_s> scott-work: So you finding JK's index good reading? Have you started in on Visual Literacy yet? The latter is likely right what you were looking for and the exercises are very interesting.
<scott-work> troy_s: i've look at it a bit, poked into different parts, it's equally fascinating to "cheat" and look at other people's answers (I have the edition with other's work in it apparently)
<troy_s> scott-work: I think the point that is missed is that it is really entirely about language. 1) Art and design is language 2) Art and design is ever shifting. The language changes depending on context / culture etc. Just as we didn't have LOL or Google a few years ago, so too it is with A&D.
<troy_s> scott-work: So when the chumps in our culture say things like "everyone" and such it is really unfortunate. Rather like cooking food for everyone or writing a book or even just saying 'hello'. The simplicity of the desire is met with the complexity of reality.
<scott-work> troy_s: hmm, that put's a different perspective on what i'm reading, but it's too much for me at this point - like asking a blind man what colors he sees at his first glimpse at the world
<scott-work> troy_s: i'll have to finish reading then go back and review it with that in mind, right now I'm just understand and trying to appreciate the mundane aspects of it
<scott-work> i'm an a&d challenged , heh
<scott-work> troy_s:  here's something I created for something I'm working on        http://imagebin.org/90787
<scott-work> troy_s: I meant the ubuntu studio symbol in the upper right
<troy_s> scott-work: If there were one overarching thing that I could say about Ubuntu it (not not relevant) would be to avoid the typeface at all costs. It always has been one of the most homebrew nasty things out there. Nearly _any_ choice other than it would elevate work immediately.
<troy_s> scott-work: Utterly frightening how pervasive it ended up.
<scott-work> troy_s: lol, i can do that!  it's also my first foray into Inkscape which is bleeding awesome!  I've dropped GIMP now.
<troy_s> rexium: Check out my LinkedIn connects.
<troy_s> rexium: You will laugh.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2010-03-30
<ScottL> themuso, i see you merged the -menu commit :)      i'm curious, how long approximately before it is built and in the repos?
<ScottL> and I should have the -look updated tonight for the plymouth theme, i want to test it once more via ppa and then i'll push it
<abogani> http://lwn.net/Articles/339326/ and http://git.0pointer.de/?p=rtkit.git;a=blob;f=README
<abogani> Should we support rtkit on -rt?
<abogani> :-?
<abogani> .
<abogani> scott-work: In reply of your email: Management election.
<scott-work> abogani: agreed
<scott-work> it might not be tenable to achieve before lucid release but hopefully directly afterwards then
<abogani> Soon it happens better it'll be.
<scott-work> abogani: i suppose this would be a good place to start https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/TeamStructure
<abogani> scott-work: Agreed.
<abogani> scott-work: First of all: the project leader.
<rlameiro> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/ControlsRedesign
<rlameiro> ScottL: who is  the main dev /leader of ubuntustudio team?
<rlameiro> ScottL: what is your timezone?
<scott-work> abogani: sorry, my company lost the internet for a bit
<scott-work> i think the last thing I saw you type was choosing project leader first
<abogani> scott-work: Exactly
<rlameiro> scott-work: are you there?
<scott-work> rlameiro: yes
<rlameiro> opensource musicians podcast want to interview you
<rlameiro> :D
<rlameiro> scott-work: also, who is the team leader of US?
<scott-work> me?  I'm just me
<scott-work> i'd say that noone is effectively the leader right now of Ubuntu Studio
<rlameiro> lol
<rlameiro> ok
<rlameiro> but they would like to interview you and stochastic
<rlameiro> I think this could be great
<scott-work> i'd feel better if stochastic was there
<scott-work> rlameiro: I've stepped up my involvement because noone else is leading, does that make me acting lead?  perhaps, but unless there's some sort of mandate to that effect I don't want to pass myself off as such or that I represent Ubuntu Studio
<scott-work> i'm just a guy who likes organization, direction and Ubuntu Studio
<rlameiro> the problem is that stochastic work timing is very hard to sync
<rlameiro> sure scott-work, i am not trying to force to be a leader, i just think it would be great to have us devs on a musicians podcast :D
<rlameiro> great pub and dev gather :D
<rlameiro> scott-work: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/ControlsRedesign
<scott-work> alright, interview on OSM sounds good then
<scott-work> rlameiro: yeah, i saw that today because I was searching for something else, i've already printed it out along with a few other things (like the Archlinux page you linked) that I thought should go with it all
<rlameiro> you should hang ou on #opensourcemusicians
<scott-work> i just want to research a few things before I add my notes to it
<rlameiro> its very friendly :D
 * scott-work is leaving work and heading home
#ubuntustudio-devel 2010-03-31
<ScottL> rlameiro, sorry to be sensitive, i just don't want to be misrepresented
<ScottL> rlameiro, has a suggested time to interview been suggested?
<rlameiro> ScottL: no problem
<rlameiro> about a time or date i am not sure
<rlameiro> but it could be setup
<rlameiro> they have a google calendar
 * abogani waves
<abogani> Sorry for OT: What means "Self-employed"? It is synonym for "Free lancer" or "Consultant"?
 * abogani is reviewing his cv...
<jussi01> abogani: it means that you have your own company.
<abogani> jussi01: Ahhhh Thanks!
<scott-work> good morning abogani 
<abogani> scott-work: Good morning to you!
<scott-work> sorry, had to restart due to windows update
<scott-work> I finished my RPM Challenge almost a month ago and didn't post about it
<scott-work> here is what I wrote and/or recorded in the month of February    http://wirblewind.rpmchallenge.com/
<scott-work> my favorite is Werewolf Baby
<scott-work>  </spam>
<scott-work> ;)
<rlameiro> lol
<scott-work> oh, i should note that everything was done in Ubuntu Studio
<rlameiro> thas nice :D
<scott-work> yeah, that was the point of mentioning it here :)  (which I completely forgot to do at first)
<scott-work> i'll post at Ubuntu Forums and the -users lists later on I think
<scott-work> quadrispro: ping
<quadrispro> scott-work, pong
<scott-work> would you have time to help get some packages through REVU?
<quadrispro> hope to find some minutes
<quadrispro> scott-work, but... now?
<scott-work> it's not a rush but I would really like to try to get some of the remaining LV2 packages
<quadrispro> ahh! ok
<scott-work> no, no - I just like to line things up well in advance, just to plan, ya know
<quadrispro> of course
<scott-work> fantastic!  I will try to do what I can but I will probably need some more experienced assistance later on, when we get closer to that point I'll remind you :)
<quadrispro> wouldn't it be better getting them in Debian first?
<scott-work> do you think it would be?  they are already in REVU
<scott-work> is it as easy as asking the Debian Multimedia people to help?  if I remember correctly you are part of the team, no?
<quadrispro> yep and now in D-Multimedia we are talkin' about the opportunity to get JACK2 into squeeze and many other LV2 stuff
<quadrispro> the team seems right to switch from jack to jack2 for squeeze
<scott-work> man, that would be extremely awesome!
<scott-work> that's the two things I would really like to accomplish for lucid+1 :)
<quadrispro> yep, I'm very happy of that
<scott-work> do you have a list of the lv2 stuff you (the team) are considering?
<quadrispro> mmm
<quadrispro> taking a quick look..
<scott-work> stochastic and I were working on this:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/TaskLV2Inclusion
<quadrispro> ahhh! lv2vocoder must be mine! :) (I'm a kraftwerk-daftpunk fanatic)
<scott-work> LOL, you can have it   i started zynjacku and was going to work to lv2vocoder but got stuck on zynjacku (it's been a great learning process thought)
<scott-work> s/thought/though
<scott-work> one of the devs for rakarrack was also saying that the svn version has vocoder in rakarrack now also
<quadrispro> You'll get my mind and my fingers in order to put all this fantastic tools into the repo, sir
<quadrispro> :)
<scott-work> thank you very much, i appreciate your help :)
<quadrispro> you're welcome!
<troy_s> quadrispro: Keep your ear to the ground for Tron: Legacy.
<quadrispro> legacy?
<troy_s> quadrispro: Indeed.
<troy_s> quadrispro: Daft Punk were on set and did the full soundtrack.
<quadrispro> wow
<troy_s> quadrispro: Original VFX trailer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1AwvuirSEAA&feature=fvst
<troy_s> quadrispro: And the official trailer is here (for the new stuff we shot): http://www.program-glitch-esc.net/ (that one has a custom soundtrack by Daft)
<quadrispro> omg
<troy_s> quadrispro: I'd describe what I have heard as a mix between Vangelis, Daft, and some homages to the 80s electronica. It is quite brilliant stuff. And anyone in here that knows me knows I don't say that word lightly.
 * quadrispro watching
<troy_s> quadrispro: If you like Daft, I expect it to be a monumental piece of work for them.
<quadrispro> wow
<quadrispro> what great musicians
<troy_s> quadrispro: I think you will be impressed if you like them.
<quadrispro> just shocked \o/
<quadrispro> they should appear in some scenes!!!
<troy_s> Can neither confirm nor deny.
<troy_s> ;)
<quadrispro> 17th December 2010 -> the end of the world as I know it :)
<scott-work> troy_s: damn, man, you get around some really cool stuff
 * scott-work is leaving work
<quadrispro> time to leave for me
<quadrispro> bye guys
<quadrispro> bye troy_s ScottL 
<quadrispro> see you soon
#ubuntustudio-devel 2010-04-01
<scott-work> detrate: are you still interesting in helping develop the Ubuntu Studio website?
#ubuntustudio-devel 2010-04-02
<Transmogrifox> @ScottL - I noticed a mailing list thread w/ you and Teza talking about Rakarrack packaging for Lucid.
<Transmogrifox> I thought I would let you guys know we're starting to slow our new features and put efforts into pushing out another release, so hang tight :-) We have a lot of new stuff, which you can see on the sf.net web page help section...The latest is a vocoder
<ScottL> Transmogrifox, I saw you mention the vocoder in #opensourcemusicians, that's awesome :)
<ScottL> nothing will happen until May as far as updating
<Transmogrifox> :-)  Josep and I have been having a lot of fun....
<Transmogrifox> May is a reasonable target for us... I would rather see an upcoming release in the ubuntu repos than 0.4.2...
<Transmogrifox> We keep finding bugs that we have been fixing in the current development, so I think it will be a little more stable
<ScottL> to be honest, the ubuntustudio devs are limited so we would probably even wait until Debian Multimedia packages it for Debian and then we would sync it to Ubuntu
<Transmogrifox> :-)  Ok, well that buys time.  0.3.0 is a solid release I think, so my advice would be to save the effort and skip 0.4.2 and hold on until the next version comes down the line...
<Transmogrifox> Just my 2 pennies, but I thought I'd let you know what's happening behind the scenes...
<ScottL> i have a reminder set for may to see about syncing so I'll add this information to it
<ScottL> oh, i really appreciate your input to us and your work with rakarrack :)
<Transmogrifox> The PPA's are great...if people want recent versions of anything, I have found most everything I would want in PPA's, so it's a nice thing :-)
<Transmogrifox> Thanks... now I better get back to work :(
<Transmogrifox> (that is the boring day job work)
<ScottL> again, thanks Transmogrifox
<Transmogrifox> ScottL, you bet.  have a good day
#ubuntustudio-devel 2010-04-03
<lasconic> Hi there
<lasconic> is anybody using MuseScore on ubuntu studio?
<jussi01> lasconic: yes, there are. did you have a question?
<lasconic> I'm a musescore developer
<lasconic> and we are looking for user feedback on ubuntu
<jussi01> lasconic: the best way to get it would be through our mailing list.
<lasconic> to improve our GSoC proposal
<jussi01> you can find details on lists.ubuntu.com
<jussi01> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/Ubuntu-Studio-users
<lasconic> ok
<jussi01> lasconic: Hope that helps. :)
<lasconic> sure :) I would prefer direct feedback but thanks for your help!
<jussi01> lasconic: yeah, this channel is pretty dead... especially on a weekend. 
<ScottL> quadrispro, can you help me understand something?
<quadrispro> ScottL, now I'm little busy but please, tell me
<ScottL> no rush, bug #551799
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 551799 in ubuntustudio-look "package ubuntustudio-plymouth-theme 0.38.1 failed to install/upgrade: update-alternatives: error: alternative path /lib/plymouth/themes/ubuntustudio-logo/ubuntustudio-logo.plymouth doesn't exist." [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/551799
<ScottL> i did the theme so I would like to address it and learn from it
<ScottL> later this weekend or during next week is more than adequate timing
<ScottL> again, i like to try to plan in advance :)
<quadrispro> Sure, I like more "during next week"
<ScottL> that sounds fantastic
<ScottL> thanks
<quadrispro> I should find the right time to take a deep look
<quadrispro> you're welcome :)
<quadrispro> now I have to fix 154880
<ScottL> oh, i should also say it's not a very complex issue probably, it's just my ignorance since i'm not a strong packager
<ScottL> but again, no rush
<quadrispro> should be easy to fix
<ScottL> quadrispro, to be clear, I only want to intrude upon you to ask for guidance, I do not want you to do the work
<ScottL> on the contrary, I _want_ to fix this, it is my responsibility and this way I will learn (i always want to learn!)
<quadrispro> of course, I'll do my best to be helpful
<ScottL> thanks :)
<quadrispro> see you, bye!
#ubuntustudio-devel 2011-03-28
<Kokito> howdy
<scott-work> abogani: good morning/afternoon
<scott-work> will you have an update for 2.6.39 in your git repo anytime soon?  do you need to wait for UKT to finish their work (which I presume they are doing)?
<abogani> scott-work: Hi Scott. No I don't need to wait UKT. I wait that 39 stabilize a little.
<abogani> In any case I'll put the -39 base lowlatency kernel in a different PPA.
<abogani> scott-work: ^
<scott-work> abogani: roger that
 * scott-work laughs because that response is from my old WWII-air-combat-game days
<scott-work> hopefully we are in a better position to have a -lowlatency kernel in the repositores and update -controls to take advantage of this
<falktx> hey guys
<falktx> I've been working on my own -controls replacement this weekend
<falktx> let me upload some screens...
<falktx> ok, here we go
<falktx> http://kxstudio.sourceforge.net/tmp/cadence_001.png
<falktx> http://kxstudio.sourceforge.net/tmp/cadence_002.png
<falktx> http://kxstudio.sourceforge.net/tmp/cadence_003.png
<falktx> http://kxstudio.sourceforge.net/tmp/cadence_004.png
<falktx> http://kxstudio.sourceforge.net/tmp/cadence_005.png
<falktx> tell me what you think
<scott-work> falktx: that looks amazing
<scott-work> what use is the tools tab, can you click on those sections to start one of the applications?
<falktx> really?
<abogani> Really impressive
<falktx> scott-work: the tools have some description of the apps, for those that don't know them
<scott-work> well, yes!  i really like the dark theme with the green check mark and white text, it really gives high contrast
<scott-work> but i really like dark themes in most cases when done well
<falktx> scott-work: also there is a tools menu, provided in systray, so it can be useful
<falktx> scott-work: thanks, the screenshots show the next KXStudio theme ;)
<scott-work> falktx: i think ailo_ might have been inspired from this to suggest a systray icon for -controls as well
<scott-work> but i could be wrong
<scott-work> we might be able to use some of your code but you do include some things that we cannot or do not, like VST and WINE
<scott-work> so i'm not sure about including cadence wholesale with ubuntu studio from the iso
<falktx> scott-work: some options can be easily hidden
<falktx> scott-work: I already do this, the WineASIO field is hidden if Wine is not installed
<falktx> if you want to give it a test run:
<falktx> https://launchpad.net/~kxstudio-team/+archive/kxstudio/+sourcepub/1569266/+listing-archive-extra
<ubottu> Error: Launchpad bug 1569266 not found
<falktx> ^ install all those debs in there, and run 'cadence'
<falktx> or just add 'ppa:kxstudio-team/kxstudio' ppa
<scott-work> falktx: i will try to test cadence this week, seriously :)
<falktx> scott-work: thanks
<scott-work> i've been meaning to and think that i'll find time to do so, but i seriously realize that if i just don't *make* time it probably never will, and i *do* want to :P
<scott-work> so i'll make push some other things around and find time this week
<ailo_> scott-work, I was more inspired by the volume control indicator on Ubuntu. It holds Banshee and controls for it at the moment. Also, the mail/message-indicator-icon holds apps like pidgin and xchat(optional). 
<ailo_> My idea was to do something similar for -controls.
<ailo_> I would like the user to be able to choose what would end up there. Maybe even choose between different system config apps.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2011-03-29
<rlameiro> ScottL: ping
<rlameiro> ScottL: ping
<rlameiro> ScottL: I was just talking with Ricardo LaFuente
<rlameiro> about the design stuf
<rlameiro> he seems very happy to help
<ScottL> that's awesome!
<ScottL> sorry, i'm getting kids to do homework, cleaning up from dinner, and trying to get the dogs to poop outside :P
<rlameiro> lol
<rlameiro> I asked him to join the channel
<rlameiro> he may come in anytime
<rlameiro> welcome luluganeta :D
<ScottL> we probably should get him in touch with macinnis :)
<luluganeta> hai
<ScottL> hi luluganeta 
<rlameiro> ScottL: luluganeta is LaFuente
<luluganeta> hi ScottL
<luluganeta> ricardo, plz :)
<rlameiro> yes he should
<rlameiro> ok
<luluganeta> oh, there's a namespace clash with rlameiro, i guess
<luluganeta> heh
<rlameiro> to ricardos here now :D
<rlameiro> to/two
<rlameiro> ScottL: does macinnis come here regularly?
<ScottL> luluganeta, rlameiro was telling me you might be interested in helping with ubuntu studio
<ScottL> maybe with theming or art ?
<luluganeta> yes we might (we = manufacturaindependente.org)
<luluganeta> still reading through a list thread rlameiro pointed me to
<ScottL> we just "hired" Dick MacInnis as art lead, we probably need to get you in touch with him
<luluganeta> but yes, that would be a great area to work on
<ScottL> luluganeta, we would appreciate any help in any areas :P
<luluganeta> sure, i guess i'll also need to install UbS tomorrow to see how much changed since i last used it
<luluganeta> but among other things, we've been curious about trying our hand at theming gimp/inkscape/scribus icon and widget-wise
<luluganeta> ofc this does not exclude any other stuff that needs work, eg wallpapers or window themes
<luluganeta> i think now i'll lose some time poring over the website and screenshots
<ScottL> that would be awesome!
<ScottL> oop, i need to go get the dogs, they like to get into the neighbor's yard, be back in a minute
<luluganeta> ha :)
<rlameiro> lol
<ScottL> back
<ScottL> luluganeta, would you like me to send you an email that will introduce you to macinnis?
<luluganeta> would love to! I think first thing would be to find out what needs help and where we can fit in
<luluganeta> so that's a great first step :)
<ScottL> i will send the email in just a minute then :)
<ScottL> luluganeta, one of the things i mentioned to macinnis is that it would be lovely to have several wallpapers and theme's along with some new art for GDM
<ScottL> hi Kokito , did you see the email on the -dev mailing list?
<Kokito> hi ScottL 
<Kokito> ScottL: yes, I saw the message and replied to it
<ScottL> Kokito, groovy, i'll check my email in a bit :)
<Kokito> cool ScottL :)
<luluganeta> ScottL: that sounds very doable :)
<ScottL> luluganeta, i guess you already got the email then :)
<luluganeta> we could use some hand-holding through the process, but let's email on that
<luluganeta> i'll check
<ScottL> i'm really hoping that macinnis will take the lead but i don't know how well he works with other on art at this point
<ScottL> not to imply that he doesn't play well with others ;)
<ScottL> he was designated less than two weeks ago as art lead, so we are still feeling it all out :P
<Kokito> ScottL: the community sites referenced in my email are currently down due to hw problems on the server. they should be back up soon though
<luluganeta> no worries, i'll write more tomorrow morning then!
<luluganeta> it's bedtime for me now, ta
<ScottL> goodnight luluganeta 
<ScottL> Kokito, hmmm, they were up during my lunch hour :/
<ScottL> oh, you meant the wiki i bet
<ScottL> i checked this one and it was still up:  http://mousike.dyndns.org/ubuntustudio/
<Kokito> ScottL: might be intermittent, as they have changed the RAID and are restoring backups now
<ScottL> checking the wiki now
<ScottL> i've had some bad problems building up over several months where the wiki doesn't work very well sometimes
<ScottL> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/TaskWebRevamp  this is working for me now
<ScottL> keep in mind Kokito , that much of what is on that page is what it took to get where we are and not exactly pertinent to what we are currently doing
<ScottL> i was hoping david or stochastic would take more of a lead on this, but alas they haven't :(
<ScottL> but i realize that we all have constraints outside of our volunteer work :)
<ScottL> be back in a minute, small emergency with the kids
<Kokito> ScottL: once our server is back up, I will setup a D6 install and try to play with the theme that was shared on the list i Feb
<Kokito> ok :)
<ScottL> Kokito, back, that's a good idea :)
<ScottL> ultimately we may have some difficulty getting the files onto the server
<ScottL> as i mentioned in the email, stochastic is the one who had a) access to the site, b) knowledge about drupal, and c) first hand knowledge about _our_ drupal site
<ScottL> but unfortunately he's been very busy for quite a while
<ScottL> i should be able to get access to it, but it might be a situation that might take a few weeks to resolve going through channels :P
<ScottL> but that's the way it goes
<Kokito> ScottL: real life does get in the way
<Kokito> I am pretty familiar with Drupal, so hopefully I can help
<ScottL> i hope so too :)
<Kokito> I have checked the existing website, and I don't really see anything out of the ordinary
<ScottL> this is something that i've wanted to make progress for a long time and we have made progress, but it isn't nearly as much as i had hoped by this time
<Kokito> so it should be very easy to admin (unless I am missing something), which I doubt
<Kokito> I have unlimited hosting space/bandwidth on an "el cheap" service provider, which for testing purposes should be more than adquate
<Kokito> ^adequate
 * Kokito is writing from a ChromeOS notebook and cannot get used to the keyboard...
<scott-work> paultag: any chance of getting the updated -controls built soon ?
<paultag> scott-work: is the code patched up?
<scott-work> paultag: which code do you mean?  from git where you and ailo have been working?
<scott-work> paultag: oh, you have a branch for -controls...i see that now :)
<scott-work> sorry, i can be slow sometimes
<scott-work> i thought you and ailo were working strictly off his git repo
<scott-work>  
<scott-work> oh wait, that isn't the latest code...but i remembered that you were building it in ppa but if FTBFS
<scott-work> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/65613497/buildlog_ubuntu-natty-i386.ubuntustudio-controls_0.5.0-1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<ailo> paultag, You mean patched for building?
<ailo> paultag, I've been meaning to learn about packaging and how to package python apps, but I don't expect I'll know enough to solve any packaging problems until next release. 
<ailo> scott-work, I suspect it is too late to get -controls in at this stage?
<ailo> At this point, I don't see much point in packaging the -controls, if it is not to be included into Natty. It is possible to try it using the source, if someone wants to do that. Otherwise, I'd rather focus on the next release, and a new version of the app.
<ailo> I meant to say, if someone wants to try running the -controls app, it's possible to use just the source. Some files need to be placed in certain directories top run the app.
<scott-work> ailo:  i believe that it is NOT too late to get an update version of -controls into natty...i may be wrong or others might simply disagree
<scott-work> ailo: BUT, in order for it to be even considered we need to have -controls working, i do not know if it does or not at this point
<scott-work> ailo: without some feedback to affirm that it is either working or will be very, very soon then i will talk to TheMuso about pulling it from seeds in short order
<ailo> paultag, What do you think?
<ailo> paultag, Would you be up to package it? I would love to, but I just don
<ailo> don't know how to do it yet
#ubuntustudio-devel 2011-03-30
<ScottL> mi macinnisrr 
<ScottL> how are you?
<macinnisrr> Good! You?
<ScottL> doing good
<ScottL> macinnisrr, do you feel okay with me directing people to you to work on art?  do you feel okay working with them, organizing with them, and directing them?
<ScottL> if not i can work with you and them more and help organize and give it direction
<ScottL> macinnisrr, you there?  should we go private?
<macinnisrr> we can if you think we have to, why what's up. Sorry it's taken so long to respond. I was chatting with an old friend. We're done now, you have my full attention (besides townes van zandt in the background.
<macinnisrr> ScottL: sorry, I didn't notice your previous message at first. Yeah, I'm totally comfortable running the Art team. Like I mentioned, I'll be starting a blog right away, and hopefully during the next release cycle, we can get Dream Studio and Ubuntu Studio synced as much as possible (and also KXStudio, allthough I believe FalkTX is no longer planning on hosting a distribution). Anyway, I'm a big fan of team efforts, 
<macinnisrr> and want to include the "community" as much as possible in all decisions. Ultimately, two heads are better than one!
<ScottL> macinnisrr, that's cool :)  i've just been dumping people on your doorstep and wanted to make sure it was good :P
<ScottL> probably should have talked to you before i started doing it, i admit ;)
<macinnisrr> ScottL: no, totally cool! I've done very little advertising for any of my work, and really appreciate the extra views I'm getting as part of being on the UbuntuStudio team!!
<macinnisrr> ScottL: I've been rethinking Dream Studio recently as a clone of UbuntuStudio with perhaps some pay-software demos (like AVLinux, but Ubuntu compatible). And as we work together and ultimately achieve a unity of sorts, That's where I see things going. What are your 5 favorite and 5 least favorite things about UbuntStudio?
<macinnisrr> of course I mean UbuntuStudio
<ScottL> macinnisrr, sorry was upstairs with the kids
<macinnisrr> totally cool.
<ScottL> hmmmm, 5 favorite and 5 least favorite
<ScottL> macinnisrr, we got a cool email back from ricardo lafuente :)
<ScottL> he brought up something we hadn't really done well in a while, keep a repository of artwork
<ScottL> we dont' really have a current one...but we could restart it on wiki.ubuntu.com
<ScottL> macinnisrr, i can do my 5 least favorite easier right now:
<ScottL> (not in order necessarily)
<ScottL> 1. i don't like not having a better kernel
<ScottL> 2. ubuntustudio-controls doesn't work or doesn't control enough
<ScottL> 3. artwork and theme hasn't been updated in years
<ScottL> 4. i wish we could include several of the applications that cannot be packaged in ubuntu
<ScottL> 5. i would like for it to have better documentation
<ScottL> (bonus) 6. website is looking old and hasn't been updated in years as well
<ScottL>  
<ScottL> 5 favorite
<ScottL> 1. it's free, open source software
<ScottL> 2. even people with older computers (think p4, 2.3 ghz, 2 gigs ram) can run a very capable home studio
<ScottL> 3. jack and ardour absolutely rock, but i'm really getting into the synthesizer and sequencers are awesome as well!
<ScottL> 4. there are lots of people who want to help with ubuntu studio :)
<ScottL> 5. it has name recognition and branding
<ScottL> i suppose though if i had a magic wand i would also make the interaction between pulse and jack better or more automagical
<ScottL> i would also like the networking (specifically wifi) work better 
<macinnisrr> ScottL: I had gotten his email, though I hadn't singled out his idea of a repository for art (good idea). In answer to the rest: 1) generic kernel is awesome now, realtime is only slightly better 2) absolutely agreed, and should be renamed. The idea of UbuntuStudio as a distribution is much bigger than what we "control" in ubuntustudio controls. 3) yes. Was only really ever done once, with a wallpapers update 4) Lik
<macinnisrr> e what? 5) This is the reason I want our UI to match Ubuntu's (at least in black and white), as Ubuntu has a huge user base and more support for the UbuntuManual. 6) Yeah, but we need a new UI (that matches the new Ubuntu design principles) first. As far as the "PROS", I agree on all counts. I think we can address all the issues you talk about without sacrificing any of the benefits, with very little effort. Pulse -
<macinnisrr> >JACK already works on both Dream Studio (multiuser) and KXStudio (single user). What's your issue with WIfi?
<macinnisrr> our issue with pulse->JACK is easy. just replace "/usr/bin/jackd" with a script that shuts down pulseaudio, starts jack, and restarts pulseaudio with the proper config.
<ScottL> macinnisrr, yes, i have gotten amazing results on the -generic kernel as well, but i was getting even crazier results with the -lowlatency kernel
<ScottL> but the main thing is trying to get a way so that firewire users can adjust irq conflicts
<ScottL> currently the only way is with the -rt kernel i believe, but some new work with the -generic may be providing that functionality as well
<ScottL> i'll defer to abogani's opinion as he's the resident kernel expert
<ScottL> as for what i would like to include, some things like vst's would be nice, some of the linux dsp stuff, perhaps renoise, or supercollider
<ScottL> some of that i suppose i want because we don't currently have it :P
<macinnisrr> ScottL: thanks to ubuntu's software center's policy of allowing paid-for apps, we do have a way to include all of the above.
<macinnisrr> ScottL: what are the firewire IRQ issues?
<ScottL> i hadn't thought about that....hmmm, but i'm not sure that those could be included on the ISO though, but at least they would be available for download which is a good second place :)
<macinnisrr> ScottL: I was, for instance, planning on hosting session files that included only free plugins, but also others that used linuxDSP plugins, and as such, required licenses to avoid the sonic dropout every minute...
<ScottL> as for the irq conflicts, i'm not really knowledgable like others but sometimes a network card or other item might share an irq with the firewire device
<ScottL> and the result is getting xruns or dropouts because the computer decides that moving the mouse or whatever is more important :P
<ScottL> running the irq script sets the audio interface higher to avoid the xrun
<ScottL> ailo or rlamerio could explain it better
<ScottL> the network issues seem to come from people who are using wifi only directly after a fresh install
<ScottL> we thought originally part of the problem was using gnome-network-admin, which isn't exactly a dynamic application as it doesn't really search out wifi, although you can set it if you know all the submask, etc
<ScottL> i've been told we had avoided network-manager because it IS dynamic and places a load on the computer at indiscreet times and caused enough xruns to warrant deciding to use gnome-network-admin in lieu of network-manager
<ScottL> we just recently went back to network-manager in hopes of helping users with their wifi
<ScottL> but we've also been trying to warn people to be aware of any issues caused by network-manager and report them to us
<ScottL> the short term answer was to include network-manager on the disc and have people install it manually after installation, which really isn't a "it works out of the box" situation obviously
<ScottL> macinnisrr, the jack-pulse works okay, we had been using a script as well to pause pulse audio when qjackctl was started
<ScottL> i would like to see the jack-pulse bridge become more stable, it would be really nice to be able to route audio from either into the other
<ScottL> macinnisrr, i forgot to mention that currently we are using dbus to have pulse and jack integrate (not interface)
<ScottL> if you are using two audio interfaces (say, onboard and a delta44)  you can continue to use pulse through one while jack is serving audio via the second one
<ScottL> what i would like to eventually move towards is being able to use the same device to concurrently serve audio from both pulse and jack
<ScottL> i realize that's not really a "studio" requirement necessarily, but i think users want this
<ScottL> but this requires work from others outside of the studio team
<macinnisrr> ScottL: I think the IRQ issue you're speaking of is really an issue of pcilatency, which can be set by a script (and which is my new most important issue that should be added to UbuntuStudio-Controls). I don't currently have enough knowledge to contribute that hack, but I understand how it would work. The idea of using one interface with JACK while another uses pulse is basic to the operation of pulse (and JACK), as
<macinnisrr>  they both use ALSA as the driver layer. However, both Dream Studio and KXStudio route pulseaudio through JACK when it's running, and through ALSA when JACK is not running, thereby making the sound server of relative unimportance to the end user.
<macinnisrr> JACK users get lowlatency audio (like ASIO in PC or MAC), but regular users (for browsing, rhythmbox, etc...) just get the expected usage no matter what...
<ScottL> macinnisrr, i'm not sure it's pcilatency:  here's the package with some more explanation:  http://packages.ubuntu.com/natty/rtirq-init
<ScottL> i think this is a better explanation:  http://packages.ubuntu.com/natty/rtirq-init
<ailo> I haven't tried the jack-pulse. At least we should add it as an option, I think. Whether it should be used as default or not, we can decide later
<ailo> ScottL, macinnisrr: I was meaning to add that to my version of the -controls.
<ailo> ScottL, I won't have a lot of time to work on things during this month. As soon as I have time over I would like to work on Documentation, and later a new version of the -controls. I will have time to edit the original -controls for Lucid, though, which is not a big deal. Should we make a patch for it? How is that done? Another thing I've never done before.
<ScottL> ailo, when yu are ready i would like to talk about ducumentation, perhaps we can start out with outlining what we think needs to be done
<ScottL> if we can outline and define what we think needs to be done i think it will help us be more efficient, plus it may encourage others to help as well...kinda like defining an API
<ailo> ScottL, Sure. How about a quick-guide, followed by Ubuntu Studio specific reference, and then Multimedia reference (+ loads of links to manuals)
<scott-work> ailo: i just caught you last message on the logs
<scott-work> i was also thinking that a small section at the beginning would be helpful that quickly discusses making sure the computer is set up correctly for studio work
<scott-work> just a check list almost that would include possibly:
<scott-work> is the user in the audio group (if necessary going forward)
<scott-work> if firewire interface is used, checking for irq conflicts
<scott-work> are -rt priveleges setup for jackd
<scott-work> again, i think some of these are important because i believe many people "upgrade" from vanilla ubuntu to "studio"
<ailo> scott-work, A checklist is a good idea. 
<scott-work> we could go into some explanation why it's important and how those items effect the process
<scott-work> but i wouldn't spend too much time on those items...perhaps a link to another page where it goes into depth about changing the settings
<scott-work> ailo: can you and i work together today to create a rough outline for updating the documentation?
<scott-work> ailo: weeks ago in a pm you had laid out three areas (i think) that you defintely felt we should make improvements
<scott-work> ailo: what time zone are you in?  you always seem to be on IRC
<TheMuso> scott-work_: FYI bug 745549. YOu may want to let them know that you either do or do not want to use indicators in studio...
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 745549 in ubuntustudio-meta (Ubuntu) "network-manager icon missing from the indicator area" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/745549
<scott-work_> TheMuso: is there a reason why we would not want to use indicators?
<scott-work_> ailo and i had been thinking about adding the network indicator
<TheMuso> scott-work_: Not that I can think of, its just that studio hasn't used them because changing the panel layout is not exactly easy...
<scott-work_> heh, that is very, very true apparently :P
<TheMuso> And the panel layout has remained rather static over the last few years, even when indicators came about.
<TheMuso> The issue is that if you add them, you risk breaking UI freeze, but I am not sure if studio is bound by that.
<scott-work_> maybe we should wait until ocelot to worry about adding indicators, not so much because of the freeze but because of the complicated nature of our panel layout :/
<TheMuso> Yeah.
<TheMuso> But its up to you.
<scott-work_> TheMuso:  i think we should wait.  do i need to reply to the bug?  i didn't see anyone threatening to add indicators to studio
<holstein> the nm-applet will be running right?
<TheMuso> It should be running.
<scott-work_> holstein: i'm not sure the nm-applet will be in the panel at this point because of how we have the panels defined, but i could be wrong
<TheMuso> scott-work_: Probably best to keep an eye on it, no need to reply I don't think.
<TheMuso> Let me check the panel layout.
<scott-work_> TheMuso: okay, i saw the linked bug as well, didn't know if you were refering to something in it
<holstein> i can appriciate the work that has gone into the new indicators
<holstein> but, i dont like the way they are grouped
<holstein> its quite a little tweak to get volume controls without the mail notification
<holstein> anyways... i dont think we need anything other than the nm-applet in there really
<holstein> i like how sparse the panel is/was
<TheMuso> holstein: Its not hard to leave indicators out.
<TheMuso> But yes the normal nm systray icon should appear as things stand.
<holstein> TheMuso: i like that then
<TheMuso> I.e you can only ship indicator-sound and indicator-session if you so wish.
<holstein> IF its not breaking anything that is
<TheMuso> No its not
<holstein> cool
<TheMuso> So for studio, you may only want the network indicator, sound, date/time, and session.
<TheMuso> Although architecturally, the network indicator gets displayed differently to the above mentioned indicators.
<TheMuso> But I'll only go into details if people are really interested.
<scott-work_> TheMuso: i'm interested
 * scott-work_ nods head sincerely
<TheMuso> Ok.
<TheMuso> The indicator framework is made up by 2 kinds of indicators. System indicators, and application indicators.
<TheMuso> System indicators are indicators that are meant to always be present, so the session indicator, sound, date/time, messages.
<TheMuso> And the menu indicator is also a system indicator.
<TheMuso> Application indicators are tohse that are only showed for particular reasons, so bluetooth, and network being the obvious 2.
<TheMuso> The thing is that the application indicators are managed by a system indicator called indicator-application.
<TheMuso> So its not really possible to say I want one application indicator, and not the other.
<holstein> I C
<TheMuso> You either have application indicators, such that all apps that support the indicator framework will display one, or you have none.
<scott-work_> hm, i wonder how that will affect what ailo had considered for the -controls update
<TheMuso> What did he consider?
<holstein> i think paultag is aware of all that though
<holstein> and got him hip to it
<scott-work_> he wanted an icon in the system tray like the network where you could click it and be able to pick options
<TheMuso> You can do that with indicators.
<scott-work_> yes, but that means if we enable it for -controls then *all* apps that support it will start showing idicators as well, right?
<scott-work_> but i wonder how many apps we ship use the indicator fremwork
<TheMuso> scott-work_: There is not that many.
<TheMuso> luke@strigy:~$ apt-cache rdepends libappindicator1
<TheMuso> libappindicator1
<TheMuso> Reverse Depends: synapse linuxdcpp epiphany-browser ejecter deja-dup clipit vino transmission-gtk python-appindicator policykit-1-gnome network-manager-gnome nautilus libbrasero-media1 libappindicator0.1-cil libappindicator-dev gnome-settings-daemon gnome-power-manager gnome-control-center gnome-bluetooth gir1.2-appindicator-0.1
<TheMuso> And a lot of those are development related.
<TheMuso> And you would not be using a lot of those.
<TheMuso> So gnome-power-manager for power/battery, the various indicators from gnome-control-centre, nautilus, brasero, bluetooth.
<TheMuso> And whats more, if you ever choose to use unity, you will have to use indicators.
<scott-work_> i admit to not being partial to unity
<scott-work_> perhaps i haven't spent enough time with it
<holstein> we'll just have to see where gnome goes
<scott-work_> going home
<TheMuso> Actually, the studio disks already have some or most of the indicator infrastructure on the disk, but since the panel layout doesn't use them, they don't get loaded by default.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2011-03-31
<ScottL> TheMuso, would you mind going ahead and removing -controls from natty seeds, i don't think the update will be ready in time
<holstein> ScottL: can you do the /topic in here?
<ScottL> holstein, funnily enough, i think i need to be at work to do it :P  but i can try though
<holstein> lol
<holstein> well, when you think about it
<holstein> add that the meetings are the first sunday of the month
<holstein> if you still want to try and keep that going?
<holstein> that would be this sunday
<ScottL> yes i would, most feverently
<holstein> COOL
<holstein> me too
<holstein> i'll get a thing out to the list tonite or tomorrow
<TheMuso> ScottL: Ok will do once beta is out.
<ScottL> TheMuso, thanks
<ScottL> holstein, yeah, giving some heads up will be useful to potential attendees
* ScottL changed the topic of #ubuntustudio-devel to: blah
<ScottL> huh, it looks like i can change the topic :P
* ScottL changed the topic of #ubuntustudio-devel to: Ubuntu Studio Development Channel | Ubuntu Studio code: https://code.launchpad.net/ubuntustudio | Maverick Meerkat released, Natty Narwhal development under way. | This Channel is logged | Meetings first Sunday of each month
<ScottL> holstein, how's that?
<holstein> ScottL: :)
<ailo> ScottL, I'm in Sweden, which is +1 GMT. Sorry I missed you yesterday. I've started a bit of outlining on the documentation, so I could present that to you tomorrow. We could decide on some categories, and add items to those. 
<jussi> go back to work astraljava :P
<astraljava> I _am_ working. Occasional FB session doesn't change that. :D
<astraljava> The fact that I'm not currently very busy at work on the other...
<ScottL> ailo, no problem, we're all here when we can be :)
<ScottL> ailo, that sounds good about the documentation, i look forward to planning the work and then working the plan
<scott-work> ppa:kxstudio-team/ppa
<falktx_> hey, where are the downloads for natty beta1 iso?
<falktx_> I can only find source - http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases/natty/beta-1/
<falktx_> hm, daily has iso
<falktx_> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily/current/natty-alternate-amd64.iso
<holstein> Daviey: NON URGENT QUERY
<holstein> if we wanted mootbot?
<holstein> for the meetings?
<holstein> i forget which of you uk-podcasters helped us (ubuntu-us-nc) get that going on
<Daviey> holstein, I can add mootbot-uk, i control that one... the others you'd need to talk to the irc council or something
<holstein> i didnt know much about the particulars at the time
<Daviey> holstein, it was me. :)
<holstein> i just noticed an improved quality of life:)
<holstein> Daviey: when you say IRC council?
<holstein> thats ubuntu?
<holstein> or freenode?
<Daviey> ubuntu
<holstein> OK
<holstein> Daviey: thanks :)
<ScottL> holstein, thanks for the meeting email
<ScottL> what is mootbot?
<ScottL> .g mootbot
<ScottL> argh, no thelonious here, ppttthhhh
<ScottL> oh, sweet, i like mootbot already :)
<ScottL> hi quadrispro, how are you?
<quadrispro> ScottL, ehy! fine here, and you?
<quadrispro> hello all
<ScottL> quadrispro, doing good, things are afoot and progress is being made
<quadrispro> have you noticed LV2-rev4 in unstable?
#ubuntustudio-devel 2011-04-01
<Kokito> hello
<ailo> After getting that mail on the -devel list I'm now testing the -generic kernel. 2.6.38-7. And.. It's performing as well as -lowlatency. Just as 2.6.38-1 did in the beginning.
<ronj_> hi ailo 
<ronj_> weird
<ronj_> did the diagnosis tools mentioned by David in the ML help you understand what caused this strange behavior?
<ailo> ronj_, I'm not sure how to catch the output. Do you know something about debugging
<ailo> Actually I'm getting more xruns than on -lowlatency, but not all the time
<ronj_> no I think I know as much as you about these commands he mentioned, I can't help you here
<gabgom> just to tell yo  the privative for ati radeon 4500 is not working at all in unity ubuntu 11.04 and is not fine in genome desktop
<scott-work> ailo: in some ways that's a bit frustrating :P
<scott-work> what's the point of being able to make a -lowlatency kernel if the -generic is going to perform as well
<ailo> scott-work, It's up and down, I think. At least with -lowlatency we get stability. We can rely on it.
<scott-work> if the propsed changed that allow the irq conflict resolution come through, that will _awesome_!
<scott-work> that would really help laptop users with their firewire interfaces :)
<ailo> scott-work, Absolutely. Also, with -generic, it seems it's not only the kernel deciding if you can use low latencies. 2.6.38-1 performed as well as -lowlatency at first, but then didn't. Now, it seems 2.6.38-7 is doing a bit better, but not as good as 2.6.38-1 did at first. I wonder what is causing this, and why -lowlatency is not affected by these changes
<ailo> 2.6.38-1 -generic became unusable for low latencies at some point, after an update
<scott-work> ailo: excellent questions, but alas, i'm quite ignorant about kernel matters such as these :(
<scott-work> ailo: wasn't the 2.6.38 trouble because of the cgroup issue?
<ailo> scott-work, No, that was in 2.6.37
<scott-work> ah, right
<scott-work> i think i'll do some more testing this wekend on natty
<scott-work> with the kernel i mean
<ailo> scott-work, abogani started isntructing me on doing debuggin about a month ago, I think, but it was just too much to take in for me at the time. Something similar to what Henningson instructs now. Hopefully that will tell us something
<ailo> ScottL, This is a one day brain storming on Ubuntu Documentation. Maybe you can pick out some ideas from it? https://docs.google.com/document/d/1llXJhvRZKprnMUcAYuCGn18-9vcF0oz7SiiZTauJ0z4/edit?hl=en&authkey=CKGJiYME&pli=1#
<ailo> I haven't touched on graphics and video at all. Just audio.
<TheMuso> ScottL: Removing ubuntustudio-controls from seeds now. Anything else while I'm here?
#ubuntustudio-devel 2011-04-02
<ScottL> TheMuso, i don't think so, i've not even wanted to remove -controls but i think we should
<ailo> scott-upstairs, About the documentation. Much could be solved with the -controls. I would like to include a soundcheck option to it. The system checklist we talked about I believe we have already brought up a few times. falktx has included that into his -controls app, though I'm not sure if it's doing anything yet.
<ailo> scott-upstairs, My main focus with the documentation is to make it as short and comprehensive as possible on the important items, which is setting up the system
<scott-upstairs> ailo, heh, i haven't looked at the documentation yet :)  but i will assuredly
<ailo> scott-upstairs, Not much to see. 
<ailo> scott-upstairs, I would rewrite everything on there, so there' almost no point in showing it, but since we talked about making an outline, at least I could show what I did so far, though there is not much to see. 
<ckontros> ScottL: Yo
<ScottL> hi ckontros 
<ScottL> how are you doing?
<ckontros> ScottL: I'm well. Got a second for an informational chat? :)
<ScottL> ckontros, sure
<ckontros> ScottL: I'm wondering the plan regarding GNOME shell and Unity. I havent tried Studio 11.04. I assume you're on the normal panel setup. But am wondering the long-term plan. As I think it will be harder to stay with traditional panels.
<ckontros> (as time goes on)
<ScottL> ckontros, yeah, that is a concern and i'm not sure i have an answer at this point for a long term plan, but i am worried about it
<ScottL> i've read (from jono's blog) that they will continue to offer gnome-panels though
<ScottL> and we have already modified the code to default new users (including the one creating during installation) to "ubuntu classic desktop" aka gnome-panels
<ScottL> when they integrate wayland, however, things may change unfortunately
<ckontros> How so?
<ScottL> i haven't read anything or heard anything, but i worry if they will be able to continue using gnome-panels under wayland
<ckontros> GNOME shell, Unity and desktop UI development in general seem to be forcing, or at least nudging the singular app focus thing. Not so good for power users.
<ScottL> i played with gnome3 just last night (fedora)...it appears to be the same singular app focus as well :(
<ckontros> Well, there's always LXDE or XFCE. I was actually thinking about tinkering with a ubuntustudio-desktop-lxde package.
<ckontros> But w/XFCE I'm unsure how they will deal with the GNOME3 changes. Or if it will even effect them.
<ScottL> one of the guys helping the team (paultag) actually maintains fluxbuntu (i think that's the name) and i had considered that as well
<ScottL> yeah, it's all so up in the air at the moment :/
<ckontros> What about JoeJaxx? He's not doing Fluxbuntu anymore?
<ScottL> i don't know...he doesn't say much in this channel...
<ScottL> last time i saw something is when you poked him :P
<ckontros> He's also a founding Studio member. (if you didnt remember or know)
<ScottL> you had mentioned it before, specifically he did a lot of background work before you got involved...i believe this is what i was told
<ckontros> ScottL: You got time now to brainstorm a little or you have things to do?
<ScottL> i guess that i probably need to start investigating how xfce builds their images without using gnome
<ScottL> not that we'll be using xfce necessarily, just that they differ from gnome
<ScottL> ckontros, sure, now's fine...family is only just started to wake (and i've been awake for hours now :P )
<ckontros> He. I was up late and got up early. ;) Brain wont shutdown. :)
<ckontros> s/HE/Ha
<ckontros> ScottL: So what needs do you imaging wouldnt be met by XFCE or LXDE? (LXDE is where I would lean towards as its lighter)
<ckontros> I'm also sure the Xubuntu guys would love to help if we switched to XFCE.
<ScottL> i'm unsure the xfce saves *that* much memory from the last things i remember reading, but that was a year ago or so that i read that
<ScottL> ckontros, i simply cannot imagine any needs not being met by using xfce or lxde
<ScottL> i believe we only need a simple DE and windows manager
<ckontros> I think Im gonna build a virtual image with LXDE as a base. See how well all our GTK apps integrate w/it.
<ckontros> That's been my thing with other DEs. Modern GTK apps look like GTK1 without some tinkering.
<ScottL> there would certainly be advantages with aligning with xfce, i.e. they handle all the integration with ubuntu ;)
<ScottL> we could just handle tweaking for a/v then
<ScottL> of course, there are other consideration to, well...consider
<ckontros> Yeah. Using their seeds as a base would be easier. But long-term, I worry about GTK3 changes and how tightly GNOME-Shel is bound to them. I guess you'd have to look over the GNOME and XFCE mailing lists.
<ScottL> i haven't played with xubuntu in a while, i think i'll also download the latest xubuntu beta image and see what it's like these days
<ScottL> i had played with it while i was figuring out how to set gnome-panels as default xsessions, but that was alpha1 or something
<ckontros> Pretty nice actually. I might end up going that route. Thunar is nice and all, but I just love Nautilus-Elementary. :P There's other little niggles but that was a release or two ago. Hell, I've been using a single AWN launcher for a while now.
<ckontros> That might be a fun experiment. XFCE base with no panels and a single AWN panel on the bottom.
 * ckontros starts a new VM. :P
<ScottL> i think i'll also download a lxde version as well to explore it
<ScottL> ckontros, i've considered awn panels before, but i want a tweak...
<ScottL> it would be nice to have multiple instances (but ones you can quickly switch between) for particular work flows
<ckontros> ScottL: For LXDE, I will most likely do a CLI install and build on that.
<ScottL> one for recording audio, perhaps one for graphics, one for doing midi maybe
<ScottL> "do a CLI install"... a server install?  if not, how do you do that?
<ckontros> Well you can have multiple AWNs. Auto-hide certain ones. But wouldn't a traditional menu in AWN be cleaner?
<ckontros> ScottL: Take and "Alt" installer disk. I think its F4 or ^ gives other options. One is a CLI only install.
<ckontros> s/and/any
<ckontros> Damn. s/^/6
<ScottL> my thoughts were that "normal" pedestrian activities, say "gedit", would be in the traditional menu, but A/V tasks could be easy access with awn panel
<ScottL> have a default one with the most commonly used apps to record music, make a video, etc
<ScottL> but my thought was also to have a singular awn panel that could be "switched" between the different types of workflows
<ScottL> of course this functionality doesn't exist currently as far as i know
<ckontros> I *think* the same /could/ be accomplished with a "stacker" applet? Isnt there one where its like a mini-menu? Where there only apps you want in it.
<ScottL> anyway, doesn'
<ckontros> Hell. What am I doing. Ill just try. :P
<ScottL> bleargh....anyway, doesn't matter at this point, was just thinking about things
<ckontros> Sure sure.
<ScottL> i keep a panel on the right with all my most common audio apps, i just though it would be nice to have context (or subject) sensitive panels that could be "selected" so that they don't have to be on all sides, and you could select the tasks you are currently doing and those apps would be visible in the panel
<ckontros> Ahh... The "stacks" app is access to folders. You know, if we talked with them, I'm sure someone in the AWN camp would code us up something.
<ScottL> pehaps even on of the icons in the panel could be the "switcher"
<ScottL> ckontros, i had thought about that, but it's just *another* thing on a long list of things to do :/
<ScottL> thought about it = talking to AWN about it
<ckontros> Well I could head up the effort. *If* things went in that direction.
<ckontros> But its all gotta start somewhere. :) Chat->Experiment->Implementation. :P
<ScottL> lol, very true
<ckontros> In any case, I'm gonna experiment with a minimal XFCE w/AWN and see how that works.
<ScottL> the CLI install sounds interesting, kinda like a chroot environment in that it is probably as minimal as it gets without actually doing a chroot environment
<ckontros> ScottL: Its awesome actually. It's how I used to build my desktop. Did a CLI install then had a script to install just the stuff I wanted. But with tons of HD space and RAM it became a little pointless.
<ScottL> yeah, i think even within studio large HDs and cheap RAM has changed paradigms quite a bit
<ScottL> like using network-manager, i don't think it has the impact it used to with a more minimal system
<ScottL> by 'minimal system' i mean hardware, not what is installed
<ckontros> SUre.
<ScottL> but i also recognize that not everyone has a dual-core machine with 4+ gigs of memory too :P
<ckontros> Yep. :)
 * ckontros starts his initial test install.
<ckontros> Interesting AWN menu: www.webupd8.org/2010/07/how-to-use-cardapio-menu-with-docky-and.html
<ckontros> ScottL: So how's other things? You get any new folks helping or stepping up?
<ckontros> Seems getting the site spruced up is still an issue.
<ScottL> ckontros, yeah, paul and ailo. have been helping with updating -controls, which needs a complete overhaul
<ScottL> several people have been involved (with varying degrees) in the website update, which maybe is picking up steam again
<ScottL> unfortunately i was relying on stochastic to head the website update but he's been pretty MIA lately
<ScottL> we overcame the unity implementation during natty
<holstein> ScottL: there was a couple new volunteers though
<ckontros> Seems to be his MO unfortunately.
<holstein> kokito
<ScottL> we refined the package selection during natty and will probably continue to do so
<holstein> and ailo and paultag have been contributing :)
<ckontros> Nice
<ScottL> holstein, yeah, i have hopes for kokito since he did the haiku site and it looks pretty good :)
<holstein> ScottL: you guys have talked right?
<ckontros> Really? Nice.
<ScottL> yeah, we seem to have reached critical mass (kinda) on testing and now people are starting to help in other, less immediately accessible areas
<ScottL> ailo. has been doing mad testing with the kernels along with abogani's help
<ckontros> cool.
<ScottL> abogani and i are working on the -lowlatency kernel, i'll probably take over maintaining it with his help
<ScottL> we're pushing to get -lowlatency into the repos, which has been a bit of a fight
<ckontros> You gotta love Alessio. Is he doin' any better personally?
<ScottL> apparently UKT was completely misinformed about what it takes to make a -lowlatency kernel
<ScottL> they seemed to think it was like -rt where it takes an invasive patch instead of _just_ runtime compile flags
<ckontros> They should know better.
<ScottL> ckontros, i'm not sure about alessio's position
<holstein> yeah, abogani is still kicking ass too :)
<ScottL> but i think abogani wants to focus more on upstream kernel development instead of just within ubuntu
<ckontros> I know he had it rough for a bit. Machine died. No internet access. Out of a job...
<ScottL> which is why he wants someone else to maintain ubuntu studio kernels
<holstein> and hopefully
<holstein> we dont need what he was doing anyways
<holstein> IF the -generic kernel gets to be totally appropriate
<holstein> for RT
<holstein> which could happen soon
 * ckontros crosses fingers.
<holstein> yup :)
<ScottL> holstein, ailo seems to think that -generic still doesn't perform as consistently as -lowlatency though
<holstein> im hoping by 12.04 we can just have a damn kernel that works
<ScottL> but that is to be seen though
<holstein> for everone
<holstein> everyone*
<holstein> ScottL: yeah, i dont think its there yet
<ckontros> Is this the site kokito did? haiku-os.org
<holstein> ckontros: maybe he said 'theme'
<holstein> either way
<holstein> he's resposible for the look of it
<holstein> and its slick
<holstein> i remember really liking the look and layout of the site
<holstein> for the most part
<ckontros> sure
<holstein> its challenging to so a site for a project like that
<holstein> and it *not* be busy
<ScottL> ckontros, yes, i believe that was one of the sites he did
<ScottL> he says he is very familiar with drupal 6
<ckontros> Cool
<ckontros> I love other "alt" OSs but damn. They're just never practical for me.
<ckontros> I swear next year you'll see Android on desktops though.
<holstein> maybe
<ScottL> ckontros, so if we get someone (i.e. brain and kokito) to work up a good site we still need someone implement it on the site
<ckontros> ScottL: You'll have to see what Canonical will host. We might have to pay for a host. (which isnt a big deal)
<ckontros> I know they rarely update their Drupal.
<ckontros> If it aint broke... kinda thing.
<ScottL> i found out that we don't *have* to stay with drupal, many canonical web pages are now on wordpress, but we decided to stick with drupal since it's already implemented and people know it
<ScottL> but i'll get the website updated even if i have to beg or bug someone to do it or help me do it
<ScottL> but first we need a solid updated ebsite
<ScottL> and i'm hoping kokito can galvanize that
<holstein> ScottL: yeah, i feel like we can get that done
<holstein> the move
<ScottL> ckontros, holstein and i had been talking about moving to a live dvd
<ScottL> if we moved to xubuntu we would have that as well
<ScottL> edubuntu has been making some good imporovements with package installation during installation
 * ScottL is going upstairs to play with latest xubujtu
<ckontros> ScottL: My position on the Live disk is that it really wont showcase well the apps that need JACK or -RT but I can see going to it for a more friendly installer.
<holstein> ckontros: BUT
<holstein> how else can you fire up a disk
<holstein> testing
<holstein> and see if your device works with JACK?
<ailo> ckontros, If Puredyne can do it, why not Ubuntu Studio?
<holstein> most of what you need cant be installed into ram comfortably from the normal ubuntu live disc
<holstein> AND the feel is different
<ckontros> holstein: Oh sure. I get it. But at the start of the project it didnt make sense. Times change. Tech gets better. ;)
<ckontros> You'll have to see if Canonical is willing to build a live DVD. The Alt disk might have to be dropped. I know space/bandwith is a concern for them.
<ailo> I wonder what Ubuntu is planning for the future. It seems improbable to me that Unity will be the only Desktop.
<ScottL> ckontros, dick macinnis has agreed to make a livedvd of natty studio when it is released
<ckontros> ailo: From what I know from the folks I know there, it is. Unity will be the main UI with GNOME2 panels as a "classic" desktop.
<ScottL> several of us (holstein, me, ailo i think) will probably test it so see what the performance is
<ScottL> we realize it will not be the same as installed, but it makes a great calling card
<ailo> ScottL, I highly doubt performance will be any different, though loading will be slower
<ScottL> i have testimonial from people who say they routinely give out live cd's and thumbdrives of other a/v distributions but can't with studio
<ailo> Or am I missing something?
<ScottL> although they would like to
<ailo> When running applications that aren't using the hard drive, I think performance should be the same
<ScottL> ailo, i would expect performance to suffer *some* degradation at least because keeping everything in memory or having to dump to a page file
<ckontros> ScottL: I would be leery of it not coming from the normal Canonical build system as there can be inconsistencies. Unforseen bugs. If its off of Natty and just for testing for now, sure. But an official release should come from us and Canonical. I could see axing the Alt disk.
<ScottL> ckontros, yes, yes....if we move towards livedvd it would be an official build from canonical
<ScottL> but mac's build would be a "community" supported item for the short term and mainly for testing with the devs
<ailo> ScottL, The apps usually keep everything in memory anyway, during runtime, when you are not loading anything, just running.
<holstein> sorry... had to do some phone-time :)
<holstein> ckontros: cool
<ScottL> ailo, well, but if you actually recorded something (say a .wav file in ardour) then that would start eating memory pretty quickly
<ckontros> A "community" within a community. Sounds Inceptiony. :P
<holstein> yeah, the way i usually put it is, ubuntustudio is the *only* audio distro that does not have a live-CD
<ScottL> so perhaps we need a stricter definition of "performance" ;)
<holstein> or proper kernel out of the box ;)
<ailo> ScottL, That is true, but in this case you would either use an external disk drive, or the internal drive for saving the data. Recording to ram doesn't make much sense
<holstein> BUT, i get the concerns you wer voicing too
<ScottL> holstein, well, that's part of the limitation of working within canonical/ubuntu, but there are positives from it as well
<holstein> and we should make sure that this is what we want in the long-term
<ScottL> and currently i would say the plusses outway the minuses
<holstein> having a live installer also simplifies installing from USB sticks
<ScottL> although that balance seems to be shifting to more minuses lately
<ckontros> ScottL: Such as?
<holstein> and, depending on how you look at it, either removes the task-selection options, or unifies the installation process
<ScottL> ckontros, as we discussed, the move to unity and wayland, it just adds more complexity to this project
<ScottL> ckontros, and some existing things as the kernel
<ckontros> Oh, Oh.
<ScottL> ckontros, and some would argue the seemingly intentional obfuscation by the UKT
<holstein> yeah, we cant just pop a kernel that we need in
<holstein> and again, its a valid system
<holstein> the UKT has a large overall goal that may or may not jive with our goal
<holstein> but, we have to follow the larger ubuntu goals
<ailo> With -rt it was different. With -lowlatency there is no real problems, right?
<ckontros> ScottL: Really, UKT should matter at all. MOTU are just timid about putting in a kernel.
<ScottL> ckontros, well, persia doesn't appear to be that timid :P
<ckontros> And Universe is where it would land anyway so MOTU have jurisdiction anyway.
<ScottL> he's seemed quite cavalier almost to do this, and damn the consequences :)
<ailo> If someone can tune the -generic so it is 100% reliable for audio, then fine, we don't need anything else. During Natty development the performance has been going up and down, and it doesn't seem to be all about the kernel. There's something else doing that. -lowlatency, however has been stable throughout this period
<ckontros> persia rocks but he's just 1 guy. (though he does the work of 10) ;)
<ScottL> ailo, i wonder also about what tinkering the -desktop people are doing and what we have running underneath like bluetooth that might degrade performance
<ScottL> but i'm pretty ignorant about this stuff
<ckontros> We can always turn it off by default. SHould just be some session options.
<ailo> ScottL, Exactly. I think that's what's doing it. But, I prefer the -lowlatency. This way, the Desktop doesn't need to change in order for the user to get high performance
<ailo> With -lowlatency, all you need is realtime privilege. The performance is at least for me identical on Ubuntu Studio and Vanilla Ubuntu desktops.
<ailo> The only difference is that Vanilla Ubuntu uses a bit more memory
<ScottL> ailo do you understand the proposed changes for the -generic kernel that would allow irq conflict resolution?  if so, please explain
<ailo> ScottL, I don't. I am assuming we get a way to give audio cards higher irq priority, but I don't know how that works
<ailo> ScottL, I'm assuming the mechanism is the same as on -rt. Not much has been spoken about that it seems.
<ckontros> Damn. XFCE in like GNOME where it doesn't wanna let you remove the last panel. :\
<ckontros> Hmm... I bet there's still a way to remove xfce4-panel from the session.
<ailo> I've been using XFCE on Puredyne, and it is not bad, though I've had some problems. On one machine the fonts were supersized, something that did not happen with Ubuntu and Gnome. Overall, I must say, I prefer Gnome, and to me Gnome 3 is looking pretty nice. 
<ailo> I would rather instead have a second Ubuntu Studio desktop for low end machines, like XFCE. But, use Gnome as the main desktop system. I'm wondering if not Ubuntu will have the Gnome 3 classic desktop as an alternative to Unity. Or is there really no need for Ubuntu to use that?
<ckontros> ailo: As do I, but if you read back, I'm concerned about the "single-focused-app" direction alot of UI development has taken. Hence the discussion w/ScottL about alternatives.
<ailo> ckontros, I suppose it's good to try the alternatives. But, what direction should Ubuntu Studio take in the long run? 
<ckontros> ailo: Because Studio traditionally has had limited resources, maintaining multiple versions of Studio (ie: a XFCE or KDE edition) wasn't in the cards. I don't see that changing soon. GNOME-Shell and Unity arent for a power-user distro like Studio IMO and alternatives should be looked at so a future stable direction can be mapped out.
<ailo> ckontros, I don't know how Gnome-shell is integrated into Gnome 3, but after testing Gnome 3 quickly, I get the feeling they're still providing the same desktop as before, with Gnome-Shell as an alternative.
<ckontros> ailo: I hope so for XFCE's sake but from what I've read last couple months it seems that GNOME-Shell is (or for now at least) tightly wound into GNOME3. Even if its not, I doubt that GNOME providing GNOME-Shell along side the traditional panel setup will last long.
<ckontros> At some point they will cut the chord.
<ScottL> apparently i didn't download the live daily for xubuntu :P
 * ckontros grabbed the 10.10 Alt disk. ;)
<ScottL> ckontros, i agree, at some point they will stop supporting the other desktop, i don't think there is any reason for them to continue ad infinitum
<ailo> Maybe we should find out more about what direction Ubuntu wants to take, what direction Gnome will take and so on. I suppose these next few releases will introduce something new each time.
<ailo> I wouldn't mind Ubuntu Studio to be on the forefront of new desktop technology, as long as it performs well and the UI is easy to manage. There are other audio distros that will work better on low end machines.
<ckontros> ailo: Well it really comes down to user testing and their experiences with this single-app-focus direction. Personally, I don't think it fits Studio but that's ultimately Scotts call.
<ckontros> ScottL: Ok. I can get XFCE to startup without panels and a single AWN. I'll keep tinkering.
<ailo> I wonder what distro will include Gnome 3 first? Fedora 15?
<ckontros> Or Foresight.
<ckontros> bbl
<ailo> I'm going to try out gnome 3. It seems Fedora 15 is including it. Alpha 1 is out. 
<ScottL> heh, cory is awesome :P
<ScottL> ailo, i played with fedora with gnome 3 last night
<ScottL> it's kinda crazy with the single app focus, but it looks good though
<ScottL> hi again ckontros , i saw your comment about xfce, single panel, and awn
<ckontros> ScottL: Ok. I grabbed the Studio themes. Only thing missing is a way to set a good looking titlebar. Everything else applies.
<ckontros> But that stuff can be worked out later. Preliminarily, it looks like XFCE would work as a GNOME replacement. Making a live test disk with minimal apps just to test the UI might be a thing to do after 11.04 is released.
<ckontros> Oddly, seems like alot of the GNOME stuff is in this current Xubuntu. ie: GNOMES theme manager? Odd.
<ckontros> And Nautilus? Wait. Somethings up.
 * ckontros wonder if AWN depended or recommended Nautilus.
<ckontros> ScottL: http://img705.imageshack.us/img705/6728/screenshotoof.png Well, there you have it. It /can/ work. Would need a little more tinkering. All easy I think. UI always has been. Would just have to see how to set things up by default. Going the LXDE route would be more complicated as Xubuntu already has a base.
<ScottL> sorry, been upstairs playing with xubuntu live cd ckontros 
<ckontros> np man. :)
<ScottL> the image is cool :)
<ScottL> xubuntu has a top panel with the awn panel at the bottom, but the awn panel is hidden by default
<ckontros> ScottL: If you go this XFCE/AWN route, I can come on board to help head up the change.
<ckontros> ScottL: When did Xubuntu do that? (my pic is custom) In X* 10.10 there's 2 panels.
<ScottL> ckontros, it's the natty 11.04 latest live daily
<ckontros> Oh wow.
 * ckontros looks for screenshots.
<ckontros> If you go this route, I'd kill the top panel totally.
<ckontros> http://www.webupd8.org/2011/01/xubuntu-1104-to-get-new-default-theme.html
<ScottL> ckontros, yes, that screen is representative of the daily live cd
<ScottL> but if we got rid of the top panel, how would we switch between apps?
<ckontros> AWN has a window list/taskmanager.
<ckontros> In my screenshot, its the middle 3 icons.
<ckontros> (though GIMP wanst active)
<ScottL> checking screenshot again
<ScottL> yeah, and i see the menu icon as well
<ckontros> There's pretty mus an applet for anything in a panel. (though i dont dig most clocks)
<ckontros> *much
<ScottL> if we did go this route, then yes it would be awesome if you could help wit the change
<ckontros> ScottL: Just mull it over. I know there's still 11.04 to send off. So contact me when you want me active. I'll re-join whatever lists and start some BZR branches to make changes in.
<ckontros> Reach out to Xubuntu and so-forth.
<ScottL> that would be cool, we're having a meeting tomorrow morning, we'll discuss the future direction also
<ScottL> i'm probably showing my ignorance, but i wonder how wayland will affect xfce
<ckontros> ScottL: What time?
<ScottL> ckontros, this is latest xubuntu:  http://imagebin.org/146291
<ScottL> ckontros, tomorrow at 10:00 EST
 * ScottL is checking email for schedule
<ScottL> yes, 10 eastern
<ckontros> AM?
<ckontros> ScottL: IMO, it would be slick to just have a panel. :) But the screenshot is nice.
<ScottL> ckontros, yes, am
<ckontros> k
<ckontros> Ill try to make it. (gotta see if the wife has plans) Im gonna go for a bit.
<ScottL> rock on man
<ckontros> \m/
#ubuntustudio-devel 2011-04-03
<holstein> Kokito: o/
<Kokito> hi holstein :)
 * ckontros waves: www.webupd8.org/2011/04/ubuntu-1110-will-not-ship-with-classic.html
<ckontros> (confirms assumptions made during yesterdays chats)
<scott-upstairs> anybody here for the meeting already?
<scott-upstairs> we have about fifteen minutes i believe
 * ckontros is here.
<holstein> o/
<scott-upstairs> sweet
<scott-upstairs> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/Meetings/2011Apr3
<scott-upstairs> that's a quick agenda i knocked together
<holstein> scott-upstairs: thanks :)
<scott-upstairs> holstein, i'm copying my that intro video to my website
<scott-upstairs> but it's going sssslllllooooowwwww :P
<holstein> scott-upstairs: i need to get that song written
<holstein> well, recorded
<holstein> the 'get it together' song 
<holstein> that guitarman has to sing on :)
<scott-upstairs> which song is that, holstein ?
<scott-upstairs> i would like guitarman to sing on it though, he's got a really good voice IMO
<scott-upstairs> although the title reminds me of "come together" by the beatles
<holstein> a song idea i had for an ubuntustudio promo thing
<scott-upstairs> which is a good thing also IMO
<scott-upstairs> oh, groovy man
<holstein> ive had it for a long time
<holstein> when you were talking first about the idea of a vid
<holstein> anyways... we'll see
<holstein> and it can be used for other things
<scott-upstairs> any help that i might provide, just let me know, man
<holstein> :)
 * ckontros is here but floating in/out a little.
<holstein> ckontros: thanks for looking that up
<holstein> about gnome
<ckontros> np
<scott-upstairs> it's meeting time, anyone else here but me, holstein, and cory?
<azm> I'm here too
<scott-upstairs> lol, hi azm, thanks :)
<holstein> ailo: ping-o-la ?
<holstein> paultag: ?
<azm> Hi scott, np :)
<scott-upstairs> while we wait a few minutes for other people, here's a brief agenda:
<scott-upstairs> * read agenda
<scott-upstairs> * amendments
<scott-upstairs> * note meeting time and recurrence
<scott-upstairs> * -lowlatency kernel
<scott-upstairs> * ubuntustudio-controls
<scott-upstairs> * ubuntu studio future
<scott-upstairs> * artwork
<scott-upstairs> * website
<scott-upstairs> effectively we have just completed "* read agenda"
<scott-upstairs> :)
<holstein> well, any talk about the kernels?
<holstein> not much we can do but note that here
<holstein> im still hoping that by 12.04, we can just use the -generic one
<scott-upstairs> i had thought we would talk about it under "-lowlatency kernel" but i suppose i should have just left it as "kernel"
<holstein> its going to take more than the -generic kernel doing the job though
<scott-upstairs> right, let's get going then
<holstein> theres a thread on the mailing list
<holstein> about 10.10 not having -rt
<holstein> and my suggestiong of trying the -generic kernel was blown-off quite quickly
<azm> what about ship the US with all three ?
<holstein> i mean, the fact is, most users dont need latency below 20ms
<holstein> AND, the video-graphics folks are probabaly ok with -generic now
<holstein> azm: we *might* get -lowlatency pushed in the repos
<azm> yeah, you could choose during installation process
<holstein> i think thats more of a *probabaly*
<ckontros> holstein: Well, "users" depends on audience. Folks trying to replace Pro-Tools or your average new user. it makes a fifference who you target.
<scott-upstairs> any amendments to the agenda, anything else people want to talk about?
<holstein> azm: i think for now, we are aiming for -lowlatency for 11.4
<scott-upstairs> i think holstein wants to add some other kernel talk :)
<scott-upstairs> holstein, would it be okay if we discussed this under "lowlatency kernel"?
<scott-upstairs> okay, i wanted to note we should be having this meeting regularly again
<holstein> 11.10*
<ckontros> And yeah. Only -audio needs low latency.
<holstein> scott-upstairs: sure, i dont want to hi-jack
<holstein> i thought this could be brainstorming
<scott-upstairs> we can always build what we want to and keep it in a ppa though
<holstein> while we wait a bit
<holstein> for others to come
<scott-upstairs> holstein, nah, it's got momentum, just going with it
<holstein> since, we literally cant do anything about the kernel 
<holstein> today
<azm> btw, we skiped * amendments and * note meeting time and recurrence ?
<azm> :)
<scott-upstairs> i would like to push the -lowlatency kernel to the repos, use that as default kernel for ubuntustudio, and try to offer -rt kernel as possible in ppa
<holstein> scott-upstairs: i think thats a good goal
<ckontros> scott-upstairs:  +1
<scott-upstairs> azm, i can come back to those
<azm> agreed
<holstein> and do-able
<scott-upstairs> i really feel that the -rt kernel is required at this moment for a majority of users who have firewire interfaces
<ckontros> scott-upstairs: Does Alessio have access to our PPA or does he still publish to his own?
<scott-upstairs> this might change if some of the kernel changes happen where the -generic might allow the resolution of irq conflicts with the -rt kernel
<holstein> ckontros: there is no ubuntustudio ppa
<ckontros> Actually, his can be testing and ours be stable.
<holstein> and should be, if possible
<holstein> shouldnt*
<scott-upstairs> ckontros, he currently pushes to his own, i do not know if he has access or not
<azm> you guys know the technical differences between rt and low ? I still haven't studied it.
<scott-upstairs> ckontros, yes, i like that
<holstein> azm: ailo is crazy on kernel testing
<holstein> if you get a minute to hang with hiim
<scott-upstairs> holstein, i think ubuntustudo-dev does have a ppa
<holstein> scott-upstairs: but, the goal is to not do that right?
<holstein> so we can just pull from the main repo?
<holstein> at install?
<ckontros> holstein: Its a band-aid for now.
<scott-upstairs> holstein, i think we can use the ubuntustudio-dev ppa for the -rt kernel
<scott-upstairs> since it will not probably ever be in the repos again
<holstein> ckontros: agreed
<holstein> scott-upstairs: yeah, and i think thats OK
<holstein> as long as -lowlatency is default
<holstein> OR -generic does the job
<holstein> out of the box
<scott-upstairs> i think we could also add to ubuntustudio-default-settings to add the ppa automatically if desired
<ckontros> scott-upstairs: Well, it /could/ be. It was before and wasnt a nightmare for anyone. Just needs a good dedicated person to maintain.
<holstein> PPA's are easy for those users that need
<ckontros> We can note on how to enable in the release notes.
<azm> well in my case generic cause a lot of xrunson my notebook so I switched to falktx rt
<holstein> azm: thats usually the case
<holstein> however, i have hardware that is quite opposite
<holstein> probably due to the verion of the -generic kernel
<scott-upstairs> this may sound bourgeois, but should we support netbooks?  aren't they intentiontally underpowered and not necessarily for audio work?
<holstein> scott-upstairs: i use them quite often actually
<holstein> but, i dont think we need to say anything about it either way
<ckontros> I would say no. If we had someone on the team just for it, sure. But with limited resources...
<holstein> its a low-powered machine
<holstein> if someone wants to mess around and get it working
<holstein> why not
<scott-upstairs> i agree with ckontros about limited resources
<scott-upstairs> of course if it works, then it works
<holstein> but i dont think we need to say 'no netbook support'
<ckontros> +1
<scott-upstairs> but conversely if it doesn't work, then perhaps it doesn't work
<ckontros> holstein:  agreed
<scott-upstairs> so we agree to do "nothing" :P
<holstein> yeah
<holstein> easy :)
<holstein> if i get bored
<holstein> i'll try and put some documentation up about running what i run on netbooks
<scott-upstairs> but we probably should point out if asked about netbooks and people having problems, that they aren't our target hardware i guess
<azm> what about proper jack-pulse support ?
<azm> if I can ask now
<holstein> scott-upstairs: yeah, we should say 'runs great on netbooks and old hardware'
<holstein> azm: sure, you can ask
<scott-upstairs> okay, i'm working with alessio on the -lowlatency kernel, we are waiting for 2.6.39 to get stable and will try to get it into ocelot
<scott-upstairs> persia has agreed in the past to push the -lowlatency kernel into the repos without "permission" from UKT
<ckontros> As he should.
<azm> I have to basically download pulse-jack bridge from different distro to have sound
<scott-upstairs> holstein, what do you mean "runs great on netbooks and old hardware"?
<ckontros> Its not their territory.
<holstein> well, it *should* be cool
<azm> no tutorials on this topic on US web
<holstein> scott-upstairs: shouldnt*
<holstein> sorry :)
<scott-upstairs> ckontros, there is a blueprint for kernels, it has the UKT coming with documentation about how to build/package a kernel derivative
<scott-upstairs> ckontros, it was a "great colloboration" between us and them
<ckontros> gotcha
<scott-upstairs> my quotes and term
<holstein> azm: we'll get to that
<scott-upstairs> at this point, however, it has completely failed because the documentation continues to remain forthcoming
<scott-upstairs> i think persia has reached his limit and will move rather unilaterally now to push it into the repos :)
<scott-upstairs> sorry, azm, your question again?
<holstein> and Jfo comes in here from the UKT
<holstein> so, i dont think its going to be a big issue
<holstein> we need it
<holstein> and its great that we are going to get it :)
<scott-upstairs> holstein, as cory pointed out, it's not their perview if our kernel goes into multiverse, it's -motu
<scott-upstairs> and persia is part of -motu
<holstein> scott-upstairs: azm is inquiring about the pulse-jack bridge
<azm> scott-upstairs, np, I was asking of support pulseaudio and jack working together
<holstein> AFAIK
<holstein> that is not going to debian upstream
<scott-upstairs> azm, are you saying that you do not have any sound at all with ubuntu studio?
<holstein> last i heard falk talk about it
<holstein> the pulse guys didnt like it
<holstein> because it kills pulse
<azm> scott-upstairs, sure I have, but If I run jack then pa stop workin, if I stop jack pa will not start
<holstein> scott-upstairs: do we have plans of including that package?
<azm> I know jack must be setup properly
<holstein> falks pulse-jack thingy?
<scott-upstairs> ah, azm, i am assuming you have a single audio interface or you are trying to use a single audio interface to play streams from both pusle and jack?
<azm> scott-upstairs, yes
<ckontros> The pulse-jack thing has hounded us since pulse was introed. JACK in main was supposed to be our ticket. Since it hasnt happened, for whatever reason, I saw we push during 11.10 for a bit. If it doesnt happen, PPA it is.
<holstein> i think its such a specialized need
<scott-upstairs> but jack is in the main
<azm> well I already figured how to get it working
<azm> but for beginners it could be pita
<azm> btw. does US have wiki?
<holstein> azm: IF its proper documentation
<ckontros> scott-upstairs: Yep. Which was supposed to allow us to enable JACK support in pulse.
<holstein> you and i would set down and make a WIKI sometime
<holstein> maybe you and I and [lsd]
<scott-upstairs> ckontros, ah, okay
<holstein> [lsd] know the old method quite well
<holstein> knows*
<ckontros> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio
<holstein> and we can just make whatever WIKI we need
<holstein> thats what they are for
<scott-upstairs> ckontros, maybe we need to file another bug or if one exists we push that one
<ckontros> scott-upstairs: Im sure there's already several.
<holstein> ckontros: its the pulse guys AFAIK
<holstein> they dont have a JACK option
<scott-upstairs> i'll check to see if a "enable JACK support in pulse" bug exists and see where they stand then
<holstein> thats where i think we should put the pressure
<holstein> if possible
<holstein> that would make life SO much easier
<holstein> but, there are issues with it
<scott-upstairs> holstein, like what?
<holstein> pulse would have to stop
<holstein> and start again
<ckontros> holstein: Naa... Pulse guys wont do it. The JACK-Pulse stuff was written by las AFAIK.
<holstein> and they dont like that
<holstein> they = pulse team
<scott-upstairs> like falk's jack-bridge ?
<holstein> right
<scott-upstairs> ckontros, who is las?
<holstein> he said they were kinda pissed about it
<holstein> las= paul davis
<scott-upstairs> oh yeah
<holstein> still, thats literally all it would take
<holstein> the pulse guys to allow JACK support
<holstein> and boom
<holstein> everything is in the main repos
<scott-upstairs> we could host falktx's jack-bridge in our ppa, like the -rt kernel?
<holstein> and it would just work
<holstein> scott-upstairs: that would be easy
<ckontros> bug 109659
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 109659 in pulseaudio (Ubuntu) "jack sink missing in pulseaudio" [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/109659
<holstein> falk already has documentation
<ckontros> bug 480103
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 480103 in jack-audio-connection-kit (Ubuntu) "Pulseaudio not working while jackd is running" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/480103
<holstein> about how to add it to ubuntu
<scott-upstairs> it says "fix released", ergo we don't actually have a problem ;)
<holstein> i think jack sink missing in pulseaudio should be the one
<scott-upstairs> kidding
<holstein> BUT
<ckontros> um,, yeah. ;)
<holstein> i personally could care less
<holstein> i stop JACK
<holstein> and watch whatever
<holstein> i dont need JACK + web
<holstein> but, it would be nice
<holstein> for some
<scott-upstairs> i'll crawl through launchpad more in the coming week and follow up with the bugs and see where they are at, and see who i need to bug about it
<holstein> yeah, lets just think about if we want the bridge in the PPA
<scott-upstairs> but we should have an alternative solution (if possible) if the we aren't able to enable jack support in pulse
<holstein> and azm, ask me sometime
<holstein> and we'll make some documentation
<ckontros> holstein: Sure. But that's where our "audience" comes in. Personally, during my "reign" :P advanced users were the focus.
<azm> ok
<ckontros> But new users dont know why things dont work together.
<scott-upstairs> just wanted to note as well, that this meeting is recurring each month on the first sunday of the month at this same time
<holstein> yup :)
<ckontros> noted
<scott-upstairs> if anyone is having problems with the date or time, please let us know and we will see what we can do
<scott-upstairs> alright, moving onto ubuntustudio-controls
<azm> also I would replace zynadd with yoshimi
<holstein> azm: thats happening
<scott-upstairs> already done in natty, azm
<scott-upstairs> they are borked right now, current functionality is either not necessary anymore or broken
<azm> oh, nice
<holstein> paultag and ailo are working on studio controls right?
<scott-upstairs> ailo and paultag have been working on it :)
<scott-upstairs> lol holstein 
<holstein> yeah, i wanted to say thanks officially to them
<scott-upstairs> but we don't have a stable build yet and therefore nothing to build a diff from to push into the repos for natty
<azm> is there some audio app extension program? Like if you adding some new valuable software to dvd ?
<scott-upstairs> so, the new target is ocelot for the -controls update
<holstein> scott-upstairs: i think thats fine
<scott-upstairs> azm, can you explain that a little more expansively?  i'm not sure i understand your question
<holstein> we can get by with what we need in natty as-is
<scott-upstairs> holstein, agreed
<holstein> and maybe the controls get moved to XFCE or whatever
<holstein> anyways...
<scott-upstairs> however, themuso assured me that we can SRU -controls back into natty as required even if it is pulled from the seeds
<scott-upstairs> and i did ask themuso to remove -controls from the seeds
<holstein> another offical thanks there too then
<scott-upstairs> ailo has expressed concerns about trying to get eh updated -controls back into maverick and lucid and they have broken -controls currently as well
<scott-upstairs> agree holstein :)
<holstein> i like that we seem to be more able to be flexible
<holstein> and thats what we need right now
<scott-upstairs> next topic, is ubuntu studio's future in regards to gnome and unity
<azm> scott-upstairs, like eg. adding up to date new ladspa, lv2 plugins, mayne vst support
<scott-upstairs> something that ckontros has expressed some concerns
<azm> *maybe
<holstein> azm: that should be coming to the repos soon
<scott-upstairs> azm, for ladspa, lv2...you only need to add the package from synaptic or software center, the plugins will be installed and usable then
<holstein> azm: i say, keep an eye on what you are interested in
<holstein> and lets track them upstream
<holstein> and get more pro-active if needed
<scott-upstairs> vst support is a different beast, azm, due to licensing
<holstein> yeah, we dont need that
<azm> thats sounds good
<holstein> i would like to go on record as being a dick about vst support
<scott-upstairs> azm, or are you saying updates to existing lv2 plugins, version 3.1 of foo, rather than 3.0 of foo
<scott-upstairs> lol holstein 
<azm> Im no fan of it either
<ckontros> haha. VSTs. Will they ever stop being an issue. :P
<holstein> with the work that falk is doing
<holstein> it should be easy to add that functionality if needed
<scott-upstairs> why do you say that holstein ?
<scott-upstairs> do you mean his work with cadence?
<azm> scott-upstairs, yep, and adding some new creations like IR
<holstein> falk seems to add support for VST's when possible
<azm> but thats maybe off topic as it is some beta version
<azm> that wa just example
<scott-upstairs> azm, that's a multifaceted question, but i'll be brief
<holstein> maybe its just certain ones
<scott-upstairs> azm, brand new plugins (ladspa or lv2) need to be packaged
<scott-upstairs> but they also need to be packaged and built for the appropriate release of ubuntu/ubuntu studio
<scott-upstairs> once they are, then we can see about putting them into studio
<scott-upstairs> azm, does that help somewhat?
<holstein> yeah, and right now, we are more in the mode of putting out fires
<holstein> since, when those builds break, its scott-upstairs fixing them
<holstein> and whoever he can rope into helping him ;)
<scott-upstairs> heh, sadly very true about putting out fires
<ailo> Sorry, I missed the meeting. I'm here now. Reading the scroll
<holstein> adding packages right now is not where we are
<holstein> hopefully by 12.04 though
<scott-upstairs> NEW TOPIC:  GNOME-PANELS, GNOME3 (AKA GNOME-SHELL), AND UNITY
<holstein> we can have resources for maintainting packages
<scott-upstairs> ckontros, do you want to take lead on this?
<holstein> yup :)
<azm> scott-upstairs, yes. So for some other updates ppa is the place where to search addition stuff during next release period
<holstein> ailo: no worries 
<ckontros> scott-upstairs: Sure. It will mostly be a recap of yesterday.
<azm> brb
<ckontros> So, in tinkering yesterday it looks like rebasing on XFCE is viable.
<ckontros> That is, if thats the direction the team wants to go in.
<holstein> i like that idea
<holstein> i think we should entertain that
<holstein> like the live installer
<holstein> really think about all the implications
<holstein> and make sure its something we can live with for years
<ckontros> LXDE is also an option but I feel integration/UI consistency will be harder.
<holstein> ckontros: i agree
<holstein> ckontros: any idea on the longevity of XFCE ?
<holstein> seems like a well maintained project when i check in on it
<ckontros> Using XFCE also gives us a slightly larger -dev team as we will have to work with Xubuntu.
<scott-upstairs> backing up a bit:  there is a confluence of situations that is causing us to look at other alternatives for a DE and windows managers
<scott-upstairs> canonical/ubuntu moving to unity and then waylaynd
<scott-upstairs> gnome 3 coming out with single app focus like unity
<scott-upstairs> they are not conducive for a studio environment
<holstein> i dont think XFCE is challenging though
<holstein> not like KDE can be
<ckontros> Canonical ditching the "classic" GNOME option for 11.10
<holstein> coming from gnome*
<holstein> KDE or LXDE or soemthing like fluxbox
<holstein> i feel those are a lot different than gnome
<scott-upstairs> ckontros, are they not even providing gnome-classic at 11.10, they have stated this somewhere?
<holstein> and XFCE should be easier
<ckontros> http://www.webupd8.org/2011/04/ubuntu-1110-will-not-ship-with-classic.html
<holstein> no matter what, we are going to hear about it ;)
<scott-upstairs> argh!
<holstein> im +1 on XFCE
<ckontros> Ready for me to continue?
<scott-upstairs> well, it appears that jono was wrong about ubuntu always providing gnome :/
<scott-upstairs> ckontros, sure
<ckontros> k
<holstein> well, i think gnome3 will be in the repos
<ckontros> So if there's a consensus on XFCE, a UI direction should be tinkered with.
<ckontros> I'm advocating a single, AWN across the bottom.
<holstein> ckontros: avant?
<scott-upstairs> i agree with xfce, it has numerous advantages that lxde or others do not have
<holstein> does that still require 3d ?
<ckontros> Yes. Avant. Simple, gives the most screenspace and does everything and more a panel does.
<ckontros> holstein: XFCE can do sw composite.
<ckontros> (last i knew anyway)
<holstein> ckontros: i would like to see some overhead on avant
<scott-upstairs> http://imagebin.org/146291  this is currently xfce from live cd, notice the bottom AWN panel
<holstein> i remember when i was using it
<holstein> it seemed heavy
<holstein> that was 9.10 though i bet
<ckontros> And my simple testing from yesterday: http://img705.imageshack.us/img705/6728/screenshotoof.png
<holstein> i went to wbar
<holstein> then, i just started using gnome-do
<holstein> ckontros: im not opposed though
<holstein> i think AWN does look modern
<holstein> and thats what we need i think
<holstein> if we go to XFCE
<scott-upstairs> i like ckontros 's screenshot, even better if the AWN panel is set to autohide
<holstein> and have a really slick looking DE
<ailo> XFCE is nice, but in some way, it would feel like more of a safe choice, than a preferred choice.
<holstein> boo-ya
<holstein> ^ if anybody still says that ;p
<ckontros> holstein: There's some graphic to tinkering to do but its the least of our issues. ;)
<ckontros> So +'s to XFCE?
<scott-upstairs> +1
<holstein> yup +1
<holstein> i say, +1 even if gnome2 is sticking around
<ailo> I'm still not sure. But, perhaps XFCE is the smartest choice, at least for 11.10
<ckontros> Ok. In the coming weeks I'll start a BZR branch to start testing.
<scott-upstairs> ckontros, i wonder if we might convince some xubuntu developers might help us figure out a way to do software selection during installation
<scott-upstairs> incidentally, this would give us the live dvd option i believe
<ckontros> scott-upstairs: Im sure they would. I'll reach out to them soon.
<ckontros> scott-upstairs: After 11.04. A Planet note will also be good. But not till after Natty releases.
<scott-upstairs> ckontros, absolutely :)
<jussi> ooh, its a ckontros!
<scott-upstairs> ckontros, but this will give us a live dvd, will it not?
<ckontros> BAM! :)
<ckontros> Hi Jussi
<holstein> jussi: o/
<scott-upstairs> hi jussi
<jussi> cripes, everyones awake
<ckontros> scott-upstairs: Well, that's a different issue. It comes down to *if* you want one.
<jussi> ckontros: you are probably interested in the new Qt app - tomahawk
<jussi> its brilliant
<scott-upstairs> right, so ckontros will work on this more and talk to the xubuntu people and see if we can forge a relationship
<ckontros> scott-upstairs:  we'd also have to work with the Edubuntu guys on install options.
<scott-upstairs> i'll do a post about it after natty comes out
<scott-upstairs> yes! ckontros, they've done some cool stuff :)
<ckontros> jussi: Seen it. :P
<jussi> ckontros: seen, or used? 
<ckontros> jussi:  Just seen. But we're /tryin'/ ta have a meetin'!! :P
<ckontros> scott-upstairs: Ok. So thats 2 groups to reach out to.
<jussi> ckontros: oh, my apologies, just walked in
<scott-upstairs> do we have anymore to say about ubuntu studio and gnome/unity/xfce ?
<ckontros> scott-upstairs: Maybe we get together a tri-team meeting. E/X/US-devs?
<scott-upstairs> ckontros, that is a great idea, is that something you can coordinate?
<ailo> I would like to investigate gnome 3 and Unity more. I wonder if there will be a Ubuntu 11.10 version using Gnome 3, like Xubuntu or Kubunt.
<ckontros> scott-upstairs: Sure. But remind me after release. I wanna let the focus continue to be on Natty for those teams.
<scott-upstairs> ck
<holstein> ailo: gubuntu or whatever
<holstein> i bet
<scott-upstairs> ckontros, absolutely
<scott-upstairs> ailo, fedora has a live gnome3 disc available
<ckontros> ailo: Doubtful. Unity is Canonicals focus and K/X will most likelt stick with what they have.
<scott-upstairs> gnome3 thought tends to have a single app focus though
<scott-upstairs> s/thought/though
<ckontros> It will most likly be Mint or something that goes GNOME3.
<scott-upstairs> NEW TOPIC:  WEBSITE UPDATE
<scott-upstairs> i was hoping that jorge (kokito i believe) would be here :(
<scott-upstairs> but then neither is david or stochastic, so it's a matched set :P
<ailo> scott-upstairs, I am trying it out now. I haven't even tried Unity much. I know very little about them, and the way things are going, with Wayland, QT, X, one wonders how things will look like in the future
<ailo> I'm not against single app focus, if it is practical. I've sometimes thought about that
<scott-upstairs> ailo, from my limited exposure to them i found that they are not conducive to studio work especially when working with midi sequencers and synths
<ckontros> +1
<scott-upstairs> for the website update, i've posted another email per jorge's question about the purpose of the website update
<scott-upstairs> i hope that helps those involved understand where i think we should be heading
<scott-upstairs> of course i also said that i don't develop website and if i'm wrong with some of my comments, please correct me
 * ckontros is away for a sec
<scott-upstairs> there is an example of the current version of the updated website
<scott-upstairs> this is it:  http://mousike.dyndns.org/ubuntustudio/
<scott-upstairs> i've already noted that i think we should be using the vertical spacing better, especially for laptop/netbook users
<holstein> yeah, i remember that suggestion
<holstein> and agree
 * ckontros notes the tagline should be lower case, the blue is, "wrong" (unless its a design choice) and it feels, less, "professional" that the old site. :(
<ckontros> s/that/than
<scott-upstairs> ckontros, this was the other option that people voted on:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/TaskWebRevamp#Audio%20Horizons%20v2
<holstein> ckontros: the mailing list is really where most of the website work happens
<ckontros> Something along Horizons v2 would be my vote also.
<holstein> i think kokito can really add some polish :)
<ailo> Since there's probably going to be a new theme for 10.10, we could let the website use colors from the new theme.
<scott-upstairs> i voted for horizons myself as well
<ckontros> I dont think its 100%, but better than the other IMO.
<scott-upstairs> i thought the dark horizons looked pretty good and matched our theme pretty well
<ckontros> yes
<ckontros> We should also see how the new "ubuntu" font would look used there.
<ailo> When should the new site be published? Is there a time set for that?
<ckontros> "Impact" /could/ work with some revamp. But Horizons I feel makes a better initial impact.
<holstein> i think we are on a 'when its ready' kinda thing
<ckontros> ailo: I would push for 11.10 release.
<scott-upstairs> ckontros, since there is not much movement on the impact theme, you want me to talk to the horizon guys and see what could be worked up
<ailo> ckontros, +1 to that
<ckontros> scott-upstairs: Sounds reasonable.
<scott-upstairs> ailo, it was loosely hoped to coincide with natty release, but that isn't going to happen since the development has been really, really slow :P
<scott-upstairs> ckontros, i will do that then
<scott-upstairs> ckontros, would you like to be included on the emails to provide some artistic feedback?  i'll do all the logistics and coordinating
<ckontros> scott-upstairs: What list is the chat on?
<scott-upstairs> it would probably be a mixture of direct and the -dev mailing list
<scott-upstairs> direct just to make sure they see the email :P
<ckontros> Ill sub to -dev again.
<ckontros> Done.
<scott-upstairs> any other comments or concerns in relation to the meeting?
<scott-upstairs> if not, we can conclude the meeting
<ckontros> Not here.
<holstein> yeah, i have one
<ckontros> Anyone don't know how I am? err.. was?
<holstein> i might talk more to Daviey about getting a mootbot in here
<holstein> for the meetings
<holstein> if no objections ?
<ckontros> I realize I didnt inro myself to a couple of folks. :P
<holstein> talk to Daviey more*
<ckontros> *intro
<holstein> ckontros: go for it
<scott-upstairs> i think ckontros is a legend myself
<holstein> ckontros: glad you're here :)
<scott-upstairs> holstein, i think that would be a good idea, it would certainly with minutes for meetings, especially if we are getting into regular meetings again
<ckontros> I just noticed some new folks.
<ckontros> Didnt want anyone to be like: "Who the fuck is this guy?" :P
<scott-upstairs> ckontros, do you want to mention some of your background with studio?
<Kokito> howdy
<scott-upstairs> hi Kokito !
<Kokito> sorry I am late for the meeting
<scott-upstairs> we were just about to wrap it up, but we can talk about the website stuff if you want
<ailo> ckontros, I've been around since the beginning of Natty development. I realize there are some people I haven't met yet. I'm a musician / Linux enthusiast, just hanging around, helping if I can, hoping not to screw anything up.
<scott-upstairs> actually, ailo is a HUGE asset to the team, he's really dove into many things and helped quite a bit
<scott-upstairs> Kokito, did you get my email about goals of the website?
<ckontros> (got the wiki is slow)
<ckontros> *god
<holstein> Kokito: hello again :)
<Kokito> scott-upstairs: I will meed another 10 minutes or so before I can chat. sorry...
<holstein> we're about to the end here, but you and scott-upstairs can touch base it seems
<scott-upstairs> for those who don't know ckontros, cory kontros was probably the most active project lead and major force of will for ubuntu studio
<scott-upstairs> ubuntu studio certainly wouldn't exist as it does today without cory
<scott-upstairs> i believe he also had a very heavy hand in developing the current dark theme
<holstein> which is awesome :)
<azm> theme is nice really.
<ckontros> Jesus. I cant bring up my wiki page to save my life.
<scott-upstairs> lol
<scott-upstairs> i've also had problem with the wiki where it times out or something and won't bring up the page
<ckontros> https://launchpad.net/~coryisatm and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CKontros
<scott-upstairs> holstein, http://www.fossmusicproject.org/public/video/intro0001-7275.ogg is my video i'm working on in blender
<scott-upstairs> it's still very rough, but you should get the idea
<holstein> nice :)
<holstein> i need a horn section for the tune i have
<scott-upstairs> ckontros, have you seen this theme:  http://ubuntu-art.org/content/show.php/Ambiance+dark?content=132875
<holstein> maybe i can talk the guys im playing with wednesday into playing the part real quick
<holstein> and i can paste it around
<ckontros> Ok. I got some stuff to do. scott-upstairs: Ill chime in on anything you need me to if you post to the list.
<scott-upstairs> ckontros, right, thanks for coming to the meeting :)
<ckontros> np
<holstein> ckontros: yeah, thanks :)
<ckontros> Ill look over the theme.
<holstein> scott-upstairs: thats going to be very helpful
<scott-upstairs> i need to leave as well, the kids are starting to kill each other
<holstein> yeah, i gotta watch some TV
<holstein> and kick back
<scott-upstairs> holstein, i hope so, it targets comletely new people to help educate them on why ubuntu studio is something they should download and use :)
<holstein> this is my first day off in weeks :)
<scott-upstairs> i'll still check in on ScottL from time to time throughout the day as usual
<holstein> great meeting guys 
<holstein> thanks ailo Kokito azm & jussi 
<azm> Im here more as a newbie-user not dev guy
<azm> hope its ok
<ScottL> azm, absolutely :)
<holstein> yeah, me too azm
<ailo> XFCE, hmm. I hope at least we can get everything else together for 11.10. -lowlatency, -controls and even a new theme.
<ailo> And documentation
<holstein> ailo: if we miss most of that
<holstein> and it spurs some community envolvment
<holstein> i say thats good enough :)
<ailo> azm, You asked about the difference between -rt and -lowlatency, right?
<azm> ailo, yep, Im interested 
<ailo> -rt is an Ubuntu specific kernel with added source. So, it's a realtime kernel, but using Ubuntu specific code
<ailo> -realtime is a vanilla kernel, with the realtime patch. It's also a realtime kernel, but not Ubuntu specific.
<ailo> -lowlatency is exactly the same as -generic, but is compiled using a different configuration
<azm> ailo, I see, and are there some disadvantages in security or in different area using realtime kernel ?
<ScottL> but the patch for real-time isn't available for every kernel version or point release
<ailo> More and more of the realtime patch is being included into the main kernel source.
<AnAnt> Hello, is there some sort of setting (gconf maybe) to change the default session to Classic instead of Unity ? 
<holstein> ailo: do you know how we did that?
<holstein> in natty?
<ScottL> Kokito, when ever you are ready to talk about the website, just let me know (this is scott-upstairs, but down "downstairs")
<holstein> gnome be default
<holstein> by*
<ScottL> AnAnt, when you are loggin in you set it
<ScottL> AnAnt, when you pick your name at the login in screen, and BEFORE you enter password
<holstein> ScottL: more in a building sense
<ScottL> AnAnt, look down at the bottom of the screen, there is an option for setting the session
<AnAnt> ScottL: I am working on a derivative distro, and I want the default setting to be Classic instead of Unity
<ScottL> AnAnt, choose the "ubuntu classic desktop"
<ScottL> AnAnt, i cannot answer for a derivative of ubuntu studio, you should contact that maintainer
<AnAnt> derivative of Ubuntu actually
<ailo> azm, I consider a realtime kernel a little experimental. From what I understand, the realtime kernel is 100% deterministic with latency, which -generic is not, but in practice, -lowlatency is virtually as good as a realtime kernel, in most cases.
<AnAnt> ScottL: I was told that Ubuntu Studio did that
<holstein> i grabbed AnAnt because we dont boot into untity
<holstein> by default
<ScottL> AnAnt, but i can assure you, it is not a gconf settings, unity is a completely different xsession than gnome
<ScottL> it's very aking to the differences between xfce, kde, and gnome
<ScottL> s/aking/akin
<ailo> holstein, What do you mean? Including realtime code into the main kernel source?
<AnAnt> ScottL: ah, thanks
<ScottL> and it functions similarly as to how you can choose between the three during login
<holstein> ailo: nah, im on this other thing
<ScottL> AnAnt, i'm sorry that i could not be of better help
<AnAnt> ScottL: no worries
<ailo> holstein, Ok. No, I wasn't involved in that
<azm> ailo, ok, thanks
<Kokito> re
<Kokito> ScottL: I am ready, sorry for the long wait
<Kokito> ScottL: I read your summary on the website in the mailing list
<Kokito> I guess my first question would be: specifically about the theme, I have a question: what is the motivation to move away from the current website theme?
<ScottL> Kokito, any concerns, questions, suggestions, random statements
<ScottL> lol
<ScottL> okay, the current website hasn't been updating in a long time
<ScottL> we felt that as long as we were going to update it we might as well put forward a new theme
<ScottL> i don't really care which way we go (as long as someone isn't suggestions a My Little Pony theme)
<ScottL> but the point is, i want a website that will encourage people to use it and that is functional
<Kokito> I think there are two aspects
<Kokito> one is the structure of the website, how to develop it ideally to meet your goals in terms of appealing to your target audience
<Kokito> the other is the theme, that is, the looks. this one should be one component of your overall identity or brand
<Kokito> about the former, I think what you described in your email seems fine
<ScottL> good :)
<Kokito> there seem to be som decisions to make, like whether to go with the Ubuntu wiki/forums or have your own, but that's not a technical issue
<Kokito> Drupal can accomodate both wiki-style content and forums as well
<Kokito> on the latter, I am not sure what your goal is in terms of brand, so it is hard to comment
<Kokito> and by latter, I mean the theme
<ScottL> Kokito, to be honest, if it is less work (certainly less invasive) to keep the current theme and modify it, then by all means, that's the way to go
<ScottL> becuase currently, progress is simply not happening
<Kokito> I am willing to put the work on developing a new theme
<Kokito> but I need to understand the brand where it has to fit into
<ScottL> as for developing a goal in terms of branding, i haven't really explored that
<Kokito> short of that, I could come up with something and see if it sticks :)
<ScottL> did you look at the two other themes that were proposed?
<ScottL> do you have comments on those?
<ScottL> i'm not suggesting that we follow those, i'm just curious on your thoughts
<Kokito> I saw the one that was linked to from the mailing list and, to be honest, I think the current theme and colors are much better
<Kokito> let me pull it out to see if I can give you some specific input
<Kokito> this one: http://mousike.dyndns.org/ubuntustudio/
<Kokito> first impression is that it is too monotone
<Kokito> IMHO, it does not convey an image of playfulness and creatitivy
<Kokito> I do like to text logo :)
<Kokito> being monotone, it really lacks visual impact
<Kokito> UbuntuStudio is supposed to be a tool for creators, so I visualize something with much more visual impact and whizzbang factor :)
<ScottL> sorry,was away
<ScottL> Kokito, the text logo is something that cory and i worked up together :)
<Kokito> I like it :)
<ScottL> Kokito, i agree with lack of colors, i think dark, right colors offset against a black background would be nice
<ScottL> but i'm not a graphic designer, cory is much, much better than it
<Kokito> is the current website running on Drupal? if so, do we know what version?
<ailo> Kokito, It's on my server, so I can provide you with access and info
<Kokito> ailo: that would be nice
<ScottL> Kokito, the current version is on drupal but i don't know which version
<ailo> Kokito, I need to look up some things. I can mail you the info later, if that's ok.
<ScottL> Kokito, ailo :  the one on ailo's server is not the current site, it is the mock up
<Kokito> ailo: sounds like a plan :)
<ailo> Oh, I see
<ailo> You were talking about the current version
<ScottL> Kokito, if you would to create a branding idea, that would be awesome :)
<Kokito> ScottL: I can try
<ScottL> Kokito, currently only one person has access to the current site on the canonical-hosted website, i'm trying to get it but it might be a month more before they send it to me
<Kokito> ScottL: just to give you an idea, I developed the Haiku identity, which you can see here: https://picasaweb.google.com/jorge.g.mare/MyHaikuArtwork#
<Kokito> ScottL: sounds like it would be better to host the site ourselves
<ailo> Since I already setup a Drupal thing on my server, I won't mind if it used for mockups later on as well. I think my Drupal version is 6.20
<Kokito> ScottL: would hosting the site independently pose a problem in regards to the relationship with Canonical?
<Kokito> ailo: cool. 6.20 is the lastes D6 rev
<Kokito> ailo: I do my development locally
<Kokito> when I have something to show, we can put it up online
<ailo> Kokito, Just let me know if you need my server for that, then.
<ScottL> sorry, back again
<ScottL> Kokito, your not the first one to push hosting ourselves, it's just a matter of identifying where the funds will come
<ScottL> i don't mind springing for hosting, but i don't want to maintain it indefintely
<ScottL> with canonical, it's free hosting for the unforseeable future
<Kokito> ScottL: I understand
<Kokito> it's just so much more flexible when you run it yourself
<ScottL> Kokito, that is very, very true :)
<Kokito> and I hear it is pretty difficult to get Canonical to respond on website hosting issues
<ScottL> i had wanted to sell ubuntu studio merchandise and use those proceeds to fund some develop and also hosting
<ScottL> Kokito, yes, it takes a lot of time :/
<Kokito> ScottL: I started the Haiku store on CafePress, so I am familiar with that aspect as well
<Kokito> including integrating it into Drupal
<ScottL> Kokito, i asked canonical about merchandise and received a rather long and indefitinitive answer
<ScottL> but i believe the short answer was "no"
<ScottL> so we don't have that vector for funding :(
<Kokito> ScottL: unless you change the name and create your own brand
<ScottL> that's true, but then we lose the building process, which is all canonical/ubuntu automated building
<ScottL> not to mention their iso hosting and bandwidth
<ScottL> i've given thought to this before
<Kokito> I see
<ScottL> we could separate from ubuntu and rename/rebrand but i think we aren't setup for it as well
<ScottL> the ubuntu studio team is pretty small and still pretty new to development
<ScottL> i would say that that most if not practically all of the "old guard" who were experienced and knowledge have moved on to other things
<ScottL> or are just peripherally involved when asked directly
<ScottL> but i offer this...
<ScottL> if we have a website that is ready to implement and we cannot move forward because of canonical,
<ScottL> (especially given that i've been trying to get proper access to the site for months)
<ScottL> we will host ourselves even if i have to dip into my personal "fun stuff" cache and pay for a year or two of hosting
<ScottL> i say "i've been trying for months" which isn't to lay all the blame at their feet,
<ScottL> i had requested the access, waited a month or more and got the code, but it was gpg'd using an older key of mine
<ScottL> so that is my fault
<ScottL> but i've asked for it again, while explaining the problem and expressing that it was my fault, but that's been probably over a month ago
<Kokito> ScottL: if it comes to that, I am pretty sure we can find hosting without having to dip into our own pockets :)
<Kokito> btw, ScottL , I am pretty sure Kubuntu has a store of their own
<ScottL> Kokito, but also we have someone who _does_ have access on the team, although he has seemed to disappear for several months, but pops up every now and then and says he wants to help :/
<ScottL> Kokito, i thought i looked at the kubuntu store and determined that it was acutally still the canonical store, but i could be wrong
<ScottL> i'll look again later
<Kokito> ScottL: I am pretty sure there is a case to make with Canonical about selling merchandise to raise funds for the project
<ScottL> oh, i would love too, even if we shared the revenue
<ScottL> i think it would be minor though, *shrug* but i could be wrong about that as well
<ScottL> i know *i* would buy some stuff ;)
<ScottL> Kokito, i'd like to summarize our discussion in email and include cory on it
<ScottL> he's really the creative and artistic force in ubuntu studio
<Kokito> sounds good ScottL 
<ScottL> that's not to say that dick macinnis (the new art lead) isn't creative or artistic, he just hasn't made himself felt yet since he just started
<ScottL> cory is the one that pretty much by shear force of will, got ubuntu studio off the ground (of course based on work others had started)
<ScottL> and cory has a definitive eye about design
<Kokito> ScottL: sounds good
<ScottL> i think it's rather telling that you and cory both have made almost the same comments about our existing website
<Kokito> I will wait for his response before I dig into the new theme then :)
<ScottL> okay, i'll send it in a few hours, need to do stuff with family
<Kokito> same here :)
<Kokito> enjoy your Sunday!
<Kokito> oh, a last one before I go: can you make the IRC log available somewhere>
<Kokito> ?
<Kokito> would like to read through it to pickup what was discussed in detail
<Kokito> thanks!
<ScottL> Kokito, they logs are, well, logged
<ScottL> i post the link 
<ScottL> http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/04/03/
<ScottL> look for ubuntustudio-dev down very close to the bottom
<ScottL> you can choose either html or txt
<ScottL> txt is just text, black and white
<ScottL> html has nice colors, one consistent color for each individual
<Kokito> thanks ScottL 
<Kokito> I wonder if the Horizon theme that you guys were talking about on the meeting is something like this > http://drupal.org/project/newhorizon
<Kokito> ah, never mind. saw the mockups in the wiki
<ScottL> Kokito, email sent, kinda wandering, but just wanted to get something rolling while i had time to sit down and write it
<ronj> hola
<ronj> I'm testing todays isos
<ronj> couldn't install from the iso, after selecting "install ubuntu studio" the only thing I have is a black screen. maybe I borked the iso to usb, will try again this evening or during the week
<ronj> and unfortunately I'm unable to install abogani's lowlatency because of missing headers :-/
<ronj> sudo apt-get install linux-lowlatency linux-headers-lowlatency linux-headers-2.6.38-8-lowlatency
<ronj> returns
<ronj> The following packages have unmet dependencies:
<ronj>  linux-headers-2.6.38-8-lowlatency : Depends: linux-headers-2.6.38-8 but it is not installable
<ronj> ScottL, holstein, do you think I should ask abogani for an update of his ppa?
<ailo_> ronj, Did you install from usb stic?
<ailo_> stick*
<ronj> ailo_, yes
<ronj> known problem?
<ailo_> ronj, Did you solve it? I had to install ubuntustudio-desktop from recovery mode. Only the base system was installed. 
<ailo_> ronj, I suppose it is not meant to work from usb stick. I used unetbootin.
<ronj> ailo_, no I just ended up installing ubuntu normal and adding ubuntustudio packages
<ronj> ailo_, yes it should work fine with usb-creator-gtk
<ronj> it's the first time it fails for me...
<ronj> but again, maybe i just borked the setup to usb, i'll try again before reporting a problem with the iso
<ailo_> ronj, Well, there are two of us now, who had that problem. The screen shut itself off after bootin? 
<ailo_> booting*
<ronj> well I have the ustudio menu, press ENTER to install, then nothing happens
<ronj> ailo_, same symptoms for you?!
<ronj> i don't remember whether the screen did shut down
<ailo_> ronj, Oh, sorry. I misread before
<ailo_> ronj, I thought you had installed. I did, using unetbootin, but not everything was installed. However, installing to Virtualbox was no problem
<ronj> hmkay
<ailo_> ronj, I don't remember clearly, but I think using usb-creator-gtk has failed for me before, why I automatically thought it would not work
<ronj> ok, i'll try unetbootin
<ailo_> ronj, Which version of Ubuntustudio has worked for you in the past?
<ronj> uh.... from 6.06 to now?
<ronj> don't know
<ronj> but again, it works now
<ronj> it's just that _maybe_ there is a problem with the iso
<ailo_> ronj, I have still not had it working for me a single time, but I have not tried that many times
<ronj> what is "it"?
<ailo_> Installing from usb, or even creating the usb-installer
<ronj> ok
<ailo_> So, that was also my question about versions. Which version of Ubuntu Studio has worked installing from usb...
<ronj> hmmmm at least 9.something
<ronj> i've been installing all my oses (windows, linux) exclusively from usb for a few years
<ailo_> It's really nice to get rid of those CD's and DVD's
<ailo_> I quit installing Ubuntu Studio from DVD when it happened to often that the DVD was corrupt. At least 1/2 of the burns would fail for me
<ronj> yup
<ailo_> ScottL, I believe https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Ubuntu%20Studio%20Upgrade%20from%20Ubuntu is getting some attention because of it's irrelevancy. I did a couple of small edits, but that page should really be rewritten from scratch. I'm thinking what would be the best strategy for keeping info on older releases. The last few releases all have a slightly different setup.
<ailo_> I suppose there could be chapter for each release..
<ailo_> ScottL, On the "documentation api" we could decide on what strategy to use for multiple releases. 
<ScottL> i agree with that :)
<ScottL> ailo_, i'll start looking at it tonight
<ailo_> I still haven't tried Gnome 3. For some reason novaeau drivers don't play well with my graphic card :(
<ailo_> nouveau* ?
<ailo> ScottL, I don't agree that Gnome 3 has a single app focus.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2012-03-26
<len-1204> ailo, have you set a bug for the panel volume control?
<len-1204> Astraljava ping
<len-1204> I am not sure which app to file a bug against... on the desktop with the nvidia interface... where plymouth would run I get a text replacement that is stock ubuntu rather than ubuntustudio
<len-1204> Bug #964931 
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 964931 in Ubuntu "substitute screen for plymouth not ubuntustudio" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/964931
<len-1204> Four install reports on two machines both i386 filed on todays ISO
<len-1204> ScottL a comment on the above bug. I don't know where this fall back is kept on the live DVD or how it is activated... but it would be nice to include it in the install.
<len-1204> Right now my screen blanks and I get "no signal" on my monitor. I know just to wait and it will come back. Someone else may feel their system has crashed.
<ailo> ScottL: astraljava: In my opinion, the volume control problem is worth some trouble.
<ailo> It's such a basic thing on your desktop, and it's not working
<ailo> Major confusion for the user
<len-1204> ailo bug no?
<ailo> len-1204: I haven
<ailo> I haven't made a bug for it
<len-1204> ailo let me know the number if you do. I'll add it to the test results.
<len-1204> ailo, the only xruns I seem to get are when the video card turns off from the power manager.
<len-1204> Both of those settings can be set to never though.
<len-1204> ScottL After a boot to live, in the /lib/plymouth/themes/ directory, there is a link called text.plymouth that points to /etc/alternatives/text.plymouth
<len-1204> This file shows on machines that have a poorly supported video card (nvidia in my case)
<len-1204> This file seems to set: the text (set to "Ubuntu 12.04"... could be changed to add the word studio) and a set of colours.
<len-1204> I think changing the brown to some blue shade might be nice too.
<len-1204> The same files exist on the installed drive as well, but for some reason it doesn't get used. Is there some plymouth config we have missed?
<len-1204> I have added ubuntustudio-look to bug #964931 as that looks like where plymouth stuff gets set.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 964931 in Ubuntu "substitute screen for plymouth not ubuntustudio" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/964931
<len-1204> good night all
<scott-work> david h. was working on a blueprint to "Enable jack detection features in the "Sound Settings" page of GNOME Volume Control" : https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/hardware-p-sound-settings-improvements
<scott-work> i wonder if a) he will continue work this cycle and b) if we can help/influence him with either suggestions and/or support
<scott-work> gah, i just realized i haven't emailed the TB about the LTS proposal.....damn, damn, damn
<scott-work> i will see about that this morning
<scott-work> email to TB is done and sent :)
 * scott-work hopes he wrote it well
<scott-work> micahg: when you are available, can you help uploading for bug #963498 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 963498 in ubuntustudio-default-settings (Ubuntu) "[FFe] menu is not ubuntu studio version" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/963498
<astraljava> scott-work: If you have time, please have a more thorough chat with len_ and ailo re: volume applet. They seem adamant in changing it still for precise.
<scott-work> astraljava:  sure
<astraljava> scott-work: I can make the change fairly quickly, if need be.
<scott-work> astraljava: i was hoping to file a few bugs this morning (after i get _some_ work done, i haven't much so far, hehe) then i wanted us to talk about what bugs are out there and which we want to address
<scott-work> astraljava: what would be required for the change?
<astraljava> scott-work: A few configuration file changes. I can start preparing for it in a couple of hours.
<astraljava> scott-work: ...and then of course testing the new packages, file the necessary FFe bugs, promote them for upload. :)
<scott-work> aye
<ailo> Let me know what I can do to help, and I will
<scott-work> if we are going to the release team with this i would like for us to have already worked out a plan to get this tested and uploaded
<ailo> If we can do it now, I'd rather just get it done. It would even be better to have no applet at all, than to have the wrong mixer
<scott-work> i think getting micahg 's input would be advantageous, if not almost critical
<scott-work> astraljava: ailo: can we agree to get micah's input first, then if everyone agrees we can move quickly?
<ailo> Works for me.
<ailo> My view is that if it can at all be done, it should be done. No hesitation what so ever
<astraljava> scott-work: Sure, he helped in getting it changed for Xubuntu, too.
<scott-work> perhaps presumptuous of me, but since he may be doing the uploading i wanted to get his "buy-in" as well :P
<astraljava> scott-work: ACK. :)
<astraljava> Ok, I'm back in about 4 hours or so.
<len_> scott-work have you seen CW's email on the list?
<scott-work> len_: about the menu?
<len_> yes
<scott-work> yes, i did, i spoke with colin in #ubuntu-release before his response and pinged micah to see if he can help upload it
<len_> we should be testing every ISO these days? or only ones we know have changes?
<len_> I'll back scroll when I get home...
 * astraljava is actually online again
<scott-work> astraljava: that screenshot of yours where the partitioning shows the xfce icon, any idea where that might be located?  in ubiquity?
<astraljava> scott-work: No idea. I'm not knowledgeable regarding the appearance of things.
<astraljava> But I can look into it.
<astraljava> scott-work: You might want to ping knome about it, though.
<scott-work> good idea!
<scott-work> knome: do you know the location for the xfce icon that the partitioning tool uses during installation?
<astraljava> scott-work: I only see the mouse icon @ ubuntustudio-slideshow-ubuntu/slideshows/xubuntu/slides/icons/menu_16.png
<scott-work> i would be surprised that it would be in any of our current code since we've been through it quite a bit already
<astraljava> scott-work: Yeah, it doesn't really make sense looking at it quickly. But I'll do a little bit more thorough investigation.
<scott-work> astraljava: sorry, didn't mean to imply that it _WAS_ in ubiquity, i really don't know, it could be in another package 
<scott-work> i just feel like it most likely is external to ubuntu studio packages at this point
<astraljava> scott-work: Yep. That's why I need to do a more thorough investigation, to find out where it fetches that icon actually.
<astraljava> What is the pipe (|) character keyboard combination in english charmap?
<astraljava> argh
<astraljava> Nevermind, it's the f***ing qemu messing with the keys. Can't get most of the chars that require AltGr to work.
<astraljava> You know what, I give up. Until I'm at real hardware, I refure to debug things where I need to work with pretty common stuff that this f***ing virt software doesn't support.
<scott-work> astraljava: i think ubiquity-ubuntu-artwork: might be the ticket :)
 * scott-work hasn't actually looked yet, but is about to look
<scott-work> it's really no fun using a windows machine to search fro stuff in launchpad when i could 'apt-get source ubiquity' and then just grep a few things so easily
<scott-work> astraljava: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/precise/ubiquity/precise/view/head:/bin/ubiquity-dm
<scott-work> it's around line 335 or so
<scott-work> i got frustrated blindly looking for an image that might not be there (which it isn't) so i decided to open the changelog in launchpad via firefox and search for 'Xubuntu' found it then the revision number of the code and searched again...viola
<scott-work> oh wait, this is the background
<scott-work> i still haven't found the icon though
<scott-work> sorry, there were two things i was thinking about...back to the change log then
<astraljava> scott-work: There's no mention of "*studio*" in ubiquity source package.
<scott-work> i saw a place (for the wallpaper) where kubuntu and xubuntu (along with ubuntu obviously) are mentioned explicitly and i was sad ;(
<scott-work> but then i realized that, well, he haven't been using the live dvd yet, so it probably shouldn't be there :)
<scott-work> i'm pretty sure it is ubiquity though but it appears to that it is using images from the dvd
<scott-work> astraljava: you might grep Xubuntu and see what pops up, i'll get it tonight if you are can't
<scott-work>   
<scott-work> email sent to -dev mailing list about the remaining bugs, can people look at the email and reply please
<knome> scott-work, re icon: no, but ochosi might know :)
<micahg> hi scott-work, how can I help?
<scott-work> thank knome 
<scott-work> micahg: we have approval on the menu bug #963498
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 963498 in ubuntustudio-default-settings (Ubuntu) "[FFe] menu is not ubuntu studio version" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/963498
<scott-work> micahg: would you mind helping us to upload the changes to the repos?
<scott-work> 'tis a simple change and colin (lightly scolded me) said it was okay
<micahg> yeah, seems fine, but I have meetings for the next 2-3 hours, I can try to upload though, is it committed to bzr?
<scott-work> micahg: yes, it is committed in bzr
<scott-work> i have a meeting too, gotta go
<scott-work> webchat might have crapped out on me, perhaps about two hours or so hours ago, i wonder what i missed :P   i'll check the logs later
<astraljava> scott-work: Nothing was spoken during the time between your "i have a meeting..." and "webchat might have shat.." messages.
<astraljava> scott-work: I need to sleep now, so I'll respond to your bug mail on dev list in about 16 hours or so, will that do?
<scott-work> astraljava: thanks and sure :)
<astraljava> Ok good, thanks. :) See ya tomorrow.
<scott-work> going home
<len_> It seems ISO build has gone to manual.
<len_> No new ISO today.
<ScottL> len_, well that is a relief actually
<ScottL> i think i still need to test the latest one...well perhaps, or perhaps not, i'll check the website in a minute
<len_> Yes, I was thinking I would have to install a new one and do reports every day... I don't really have that time.
<len_> ScottL, I will investigate the text.plymouth thing.
<len_> I will also look at a few things to do with the partman icon.
<ScottL> len_, i'm guess we used the default stuff in the plymouth theme and need to replace "ubuntu' with "ubuntu studio"
<ScottL> but that is a guess (even if it is an educated one)
<len_> ScottL, there is a text theme both on the DVD and in the install, the one on the DVD works, but not the one in the install. Changing the text one should be easy enough... but getting it to work on the install may be more than I can figure
<ScottL> hehe, that's interesting and a good point
<len_> Anyway, I'm off to reboot land to try out some things...
<ScottL> micahg, one other thing, can we get your thoughts on updating the mixer plugin to use a different backend (that's my understanding of the fix/update)
<ScottL> i'm sorry i forgot to mention/ask this earlier
<len-live> From the dvd manifest:
<len-live> plymouth-theme-ubuntu-text	0.8.2-2ubuntu28
<len-live> plymouth-theme-ubuntustudio	0.42
<len-live> from /var/log/boot.log... Found label 'Ubuntu-Studio 12.04 _Precise Pangolin_ - Alpha i386 (20120325)'
<len-live> This disc is called: 
<len-live> 'Ubuntu-Studio 12.04 _Precise Pangolin_ - Alpha i386 (20120325)'
<len-live> Not sure how the disk label is set, but it should be changed to beta.
<len-live> there is a file in the ISO root called README.diskdefines It is the only place I find the word alpha.
<ScottL> len-live, i haven't a clue actually
<len-live> Do we set alpha and beta and release?
<len-live> Or is it supposed to be auto?
<ScottL> len-live, it will be done auto when the full release is ready
<len-live> I won't worry about it then.
<ScottL> :)
<knome> uh oh
#ubuntustudio-devel 2012-03-27
<ScottL> what's up knome 
 * knome just spent a good few hours with the xubuntu strategy document
<ScottL> is that bad?
<knome> but it's now tentatively reviewed and rewritten
<knome> well, it was just a lot of work ;)
<ScottL> oh good
<knome> i suppose it's going to be more work to go through that with the community though ;)
<ScottL> i'm still not exactly sure what charlie disagreed with for him to leave
<knome> not that i changed *much*, but...
 * ScottL was just free associating and thought of that
<knome> i think he believed that i was playing some games to get my way through
<ScottL> that doesn't require any discussion, i was just pointing that out
<knome> i don't mind
<ScottL> other than the "playing games" part i don't know what he objected to
<ScottL> *shrug* doesn't matter really, not at this stage
<knome> i suppose just that :P
<knome> s/just/only/
<kubotu> knome meant: "i suppose only that :P"
<knome> ugh, what a bot
<knome> quite distracting imo ;)
<ScottL> i'm not sure who brought the bot here and set him loose
<ScottL> i've tried to kick him but he (or she) comes back
<knome> if you want to get rid of it, ask #ubuntu-ops(-team)
<ScottL> jussi had muted him (or her) i thought, but s/he speaks
<ScottL> ugh, it's okay i guess, just there were quite a few bots at one point, more than active members it seemed
<knome> haha
<ScottL> that was kinda depressing actually 
 * knome wishes that all the scott* -instances would add to the ubuntu studio development drive, but it seems that only one of them can work at a time
<ScottL> hehe, true
<knome> i should go to bed
<knome> we're meeting with astraljava in less than 8 hours
<ScottL> i presume in person, and that is pretty cool, i wish there were people close that i could see that i interact wiht daily
<knome> yup, in person
<knome> well, it's not daily really. at least yet
<knome> might be weekly, if he got a job in helsinki :)
<knome> oh, right, i see what you were saying
<knome> :P
<knome> yes, it's cool to see fellow contributors now and then :)
<knome> anyway, i'm off
<knome> see you later :)
<micahg> scott-upstairs: xfce4-mixer?
<micahg> scott-upstairs: do you want me to hold off on uploading the default-settings package?
<micahg> ScottL: ^^
<ScottL> micahg, do you feel that it is too late to file a FFe (if that is required) for making the same "fix" that xubuntu did for the xfce4-mixer?
<micahg> ScottL: we dropped it in the end in favor of pavucontrol
<micahg> ScottL: not sure you want to do that for beta 2 unless something is broke though
<ScottL> micahg, astraljava was explaining that the plugin was kept but apparently uses pavuacontrol?
<micahg> seeded-in-ubuntu xfce4-mixer
<micahg> xfce4-mixer (from xfce4-mixer) is seeded in:
<micahg>   mythbuntu: daily-live
<micahg>   ubuntustudio: dvd
<ScottL> micahg, in a perfect world i would like to "fix" the mixer issue (which several people say is pretty severe)
<ScottL> micahg, i am nervous about making such a change this late
<ScottL> micahg, however it has been explained that xubuntu has already did this so the process is more or less defined
<ScottL> to fix it
<ScottL> micahg, i am on the fence for this issue and i wanted your opinion
<ScottL> i suppose an SRU could be an option after release
<micahg> I never had the issue that they described, this is also not the final image, just the second beta, if it's not broke now, but you'd like to be more in sync with xubuntu, you can always do it after beta 2
<micahg> you basically want to solidify your images at this point for the beta, that means bug fixes
<micahg> also, I thought that US prefers jack over PA
<micahg> in which case, going with pavucontrol doesn't seem to make sense
<ScottL> "US prefers jack over PA"...hehe, which is where this all gets weird :P
<ScottL> i'd say let's move forward right now for beta 2 with just fixing the menu bug
<ScottL> i think that is most critical at this point from a usability standpoint, i would really like to get feedback from people on their feeling about the new structure
<ScottL> the mixer may be confusing but can be used
<ScottL> as is
<ScottL> i'd say we can address the mixer after beta 2 but we will need to do some manual testing for this ourselves
<ScottL> micahg, does that sound sane?
<micahg> yeah
<ScottL> micahg, are you a star trek fan?  (i won't think less of you for either answer)
<micahg> uploading default-settings after a test build, can you coordinate with the people in -release after it appears?
<micahg> ScottL: indeed
<ScottL> aye, i will
<ScottL> "make it so"
<ScottL> :P
<ScottL> i suppose i didn't specify which star trek it was though, my bad
<ScottL> i do my picard impression at work, too.  most people don't get it though (and i didn't say it was a good impression)
<ScottL> but if i cross one leg over the other, point with to fingers with a slightly downward chop, and say "make it so" i expect them to get it
<ScottL> s/to fingers/two fingers
<ScottL> micahg, do you know Andrew Starr-Bochicchio?
<micahg> personally no, I know his online persona :)
<ScottL> he sent me an email about my "path to be a Ubuntu Developer"
<ScottL> i'm curious as to what prompted this
<ScottL> could be just because i'm project lead *shrug*
<micahg> developer advisory board most likely
<ScottL> aye, he said in hat capacity
<ScottL> micahg, would coordinating with -release for default-settings in 7.5 hours be adequate?  it's close to bed time for moi
<micahg> ScottL: I'll take care of it
<ScottL> are you sure?  i can stay up if necessary
<micahg> nah, I'm still winding down
<jussi> ahh
<jussi> that wont work
<jussi> kubotu: part
<kubotu> jussi, you don't have 'basics::move::part' permissions here
<jussi> meh
<jussi> I win.
<knome> :P
<ttoine> hi
<ttoine> ScottL, I think you are aware of that link : http://wiki.linuxmusicians.com/doku.php?id=system_configuration
<ttoine> could it be possible to integrate some of the recommandation of this wiki page in a configuration script of ubuntu studio ? (lowlatency kernel, of jackd, or something like that)
<scott-upstairs> ttoine, it is possible to incorporate some of these items
<scott-upstairs> there are some considerations
<scott-upstairs> we already done some of them
<scott-upstairs> we would also need to figure out which are the best (and safe) to use
<scott-upstairs> we would need to get the package into the official repository and not in a PPA
<scott-upstairs> incidentally, this is similar to my idea of a button in the systray to enter 'recording mode'
<ttoine> scott-upstairs, very good idea, this recording mode !
<ailo> micahg: I believe the mixer problem is a bug. I'd rather there was no mixer at all in the volume control applet, than the wrong one. I think all of the US crew can agree that it would ber be
<ailo> ..better to change it
<ailo> If you could help us out, that would be magnificient
<ailo> I keep pushing this, since I think it's very important
<ailo> I wish this problem would have been brought up earliet, but since it hasn't, better late than never
<ttoine> scott-upstairs, ScottL I am trying the daily build. The lightness of the system is impressive. It allow far better low latency than a standard Ubuntu with Unity ! The only thing that is missing imho is gparted in order to resize partitions, etc... when needed. And the bottom panel is not very useful as it doen't work as a dock
<ttoine> scott-work, I am trying the daily build. The lightness of the system is impressive. It allow far better low latency than a standard Ubuntu with Unity ! The only thing that is missing imho is gparted in order to resize partitions, etc... when needed. And the bottom panel is not very useful as it doen't work as a dock
<scott-work> ttoine: we can certainly add gparted (and i'm surprised that it seems to have been forgotten)
<ttoine> it is not on the live dvd
<scott-work> ttoine: however i am not sure i understand your last comment about the bottom panel
<ttoine> the bottom panel is only a panel, not a dock
<ttoine> scott-work, 2 other things : the volume control applet seems quite useless, and it is not possible to choose the keyboard layout before being in fxce
<ttoine> xfce
<ttoine> and perhaps we should choose between AandR and Display
<scott-work> ttoine: how would you consider a dock to perform that a panel would not?
<scott-work> ttoine: i.e. i can add launchers to the panel fairly easily as a user, but does a dock provide other functionality?
<scott-work> ttoine: yes, the volume applet is a known issue.  ailo , len, and astraljava have commented on it and suggested the same fix the xubuntu has performed
<scott-work> ttoine: however, the volume applet will probably need to be addressed after the beta 2 image is release if i understood micah correctly
<scott-work> ttoine: i am very ignorant about choosing keyboard layout.  isn't this a choice when installing?  or is this manifesting in the live FS?
<scott-work> ttoine: good point about ArandR and Display.  testing was done and we felt that Arandr providing the best multi-head (dual monitor) support, we could exlcude display from the menu unless if provides some functionality for all monitor setups that Arandr does not
<ttoine> scott-work, a dock provide the functionality to list active applications, etc... perhaps we should consider trying docky ? it used to be quite popular in ubuntu before unity
<scott-work> ttoine: the top panel should have the 'window list' plugin 
<scott-work> does that not show the active applications?  i.e. firefox, terminal, qjackctl, ardour, mudita24, etc
<ttoine> scott-work, about keyboard layout, when you use a live dvd of ubuntu, you can at the very startup hit any key and choose your keyboard layout. then, you are prompted to choose between try, install, etc... Ubuntu Studio live dvd miss that
<ttoine> scott-work, yes, the top panel list active applications. But a modern dock like docky can do both : launch and list, and more depending on addons. even without compiz
<ttoine> I speak about dock not to make your mind change about it, but because they are popular. and in Unity, the left panel is a kind of dock, currently
<scott-work> ttoine: at the bottom of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/Artwork/OfficialOneiric is a section about UI and a dock
<scott-work> this was an idea suggested at one time and is very attractive not only visually but also for some functionalities
<scott-work> and is very similar to what unity is providing in some regards
<ttoine> yes
<ttoine> scott-work, is it possible to use awn on xfce  ?
<scott-work> ttoine: i believe it is possible, but the original attempt demonstrated that awm brings in many, many gtk libraries that were unrequired otherwise
<ttoine> yes, I was thinking about that
<scott-work> other dock did not bring in some many unwanted dependencies, however they did not provide the aesthetic qualities nor functionalities of awn
<ttoine> and developping a dedicated panel for ubuntu studio would require too many work
<scott-work> ttoine: len has done some interesting experiments with developing a system to support work flows that is very similar to a dock
<scott-work> i would like to explore this in later cycles as well
<ttoine> in xfce ?
<ttoine> yes, it is not the time now
<scott-work> yes, i will dig up the email later
<ttoine> ok
<scott-work> but i want to explore other areas as well, maybe scripting, to help people start projects (not just audio) that may be based on work flows
<scott-work> hopefully we can include a sane set of defaults and an easy mechanism to edit them
<ttoine> scott-work, I will install ubuntu studio daily on my laptop as soon as i downloaded it, and use it for day to day work
<ttoine> So I will see if there are things that we may miss with just trying the live dvd or virtualizing it
<scott-work> ttoine: this is still a beta 2 image and we know there are a few known issues (although i don't believe them to be hyper critical)
<ttoine> that's why I will do that ;-)
<scott-work> ttoine: also, the menu is most likely not the ubuntu studio menu (which has better organized structure for content creation)
<ttoine> scott-work, oh, yes, speaking about multimedia, imho we are missing to suggest OpenShot as the default video editor. I spoke with specialists of video edition last week and they all say that it is the best tool at the moment
<scott-work> ttoine: i think it depends on your intended final product shoudl be
<scott-work> some would argue and say the kdenlive is better
<scott-work> however, i think for making a movie (i.e. feature release with post production and compositing) i would suggest blender
<scott-work> i also do think that openshot has made create strides in a very short amount of time
<scott-work> perhaps we could develop an upstream relationship with the developer and help give it some direction we may like
<ttoine> scott-work, it supports frior effects, don't need kde libs... it is far better than kdenlive in lightness. and is not so hard to understand than Blender or Cinellera
<scott-work> ttoine: i defintely agree with the kde libs ;)
<ttoine> ;-)
<scott-work> i don't think video editing is hard in blender...but i especially think it will be very easy with the documentation/tutorial i have in mind
<ttoine> at the university where I sometimes give courses, they are currently using openshot on a basic ubuntu in order to give courses about basic video production to communication graduates
<scott-work> currently, the thought is to ship openshot as a "home movie creater" and blender as a "pro-track film creater"
<scott-work> this isn't final, but just the working theory
<scott-work> as the documentation is created i think these may be refined more
<ttoine> but blender is more aimed at 3D than movie ???
<ttoine> scott-work, of course, I was not thinking about OpenShot as a pro-track film creator
<scott-work> ttoine: blender is a very, very stable and fully featured film editor
<scott-work> ttoine: plus the compositing nodes allows you to do alhpa over and translations and other modifications quite easily and robustly
<scott-work> i'm very, very surprised others have not picked up on it
<scott-work> ttoine: this is an example video i did (really a proof-of-concept piece) using blender:  http://vimeo.com/14034958
<scott-work> it took four hours to complete, including recording the video and setting up the green screen
<scott-work> music is completely improved (which means it has obvious mistakes)
<ttoine> ok. As for a lot of people, Blender is for me dedicated to 3D scenes, animation and rendering. I was knowing that you can manage video, sounds, etc... but not this way. great to know this
<ttoine> scott-work, what are you thinking about cinelerra ?
<scott-work> ttoine: i have never used cinelerra unfortunately
<scott-work> i read too many comments about instability and difficult UI which biased me away from it
<ttoine> the guys I have met think of it this the equivalent of premiere and finalcut for Linux
<scott-work> i really should consider testing it though
<scott-work> there has been a fork as well which is making it more accessible to the general public i believe
<ttoine> and they don't say at all that is unstable and hard to use. It is not very different than Finalcut, actually
<ttoine> try the community version. it is available in a ppa
<scott-work> meeting time, i'll be back in just short of an hour
<scott-work> ttoine: i will do that soon
<ttoine> see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuStudioPreparation of course ;-)
<ttoine> I have quite finished this wiki page, and it is very complete now. perhaps too much...
<ttoine> scott-work, see you later, I will install ubuntu studio
<scott-work> great email about the work we're doing for 12.04:  https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-studio-users/2012-March/008196.html
<ttoine> hop. Ubuntu Studio installed on my regular laptop to test a day to day use
<astraljava> ttoine: And how is it looking?
<ttoine> astraljava, quite great ;-)
<astraljava> Schweet. :)
<ttoine> I was very disapointed with the amd64 live dvd because the starting prompt is not the same than the i386. the i386 is like the standard ubuntu, you can choose keyboard layout, etc...
<ttoine> astraljava, the live dvd miss gparted, wich is very usefull if one need to resize a partition before installin
<ttoine> g
<astraljava> ttoine: Well, yeah there's that. I'll have to double-check with Scott before I'll add it to the seeds.
<ttoine> I spoke about gparted with him, he was surprised it was not included
<ttoine> astraljava, do you know if there are differences between the amd64 and the i386 live dvd ??
<ttoine> astraljava, I would be glad to translate in french the install slideshow. can you just tell me where I can do that ?
<ttoine> astraljava, I just see that the default installation is missing ink-generator (addon to Inkscape) and create-ressources (shared ressources between inkscape, gimp and blender)
<ttoine> and gcdmaster is not in the apps. But who creates cd master nowadays ?
<astraljava> ttoine: I started the work on porting gcdmaster to GTK3, but got swamped with other stuff, so only have an initial repository for now. I hope to be able to return to it once the release hassle is gone.
<ttoine> it is not compulsory to have it, but some may find it useful
<astraljava> ttoine: There might be differences between i386 and amd64, but that certainly isn't desirable. I _know_ there were differences in oneiric, for Xubuntu.
<astraljava> ttoine: Let me check the proper path for translations. Hold on for a mo.
<ttoine> astraljava, is there a place where I can write some feedback ?
<ttoine> sorry, I am asking a lot at the same time
<astraljava> ttoine: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/precise/ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu/precise/view/head:/po/ubuntustudio/fr.po
<ttoine> thanks
<astraljava> ttoine: But it's probably best to branch the whole source tree. Use `bzr branch lp:ubuntu/ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu` for that.
<astraljava> I'm going to be flying back home now, I'll be back online in about 3-4 hours.
<astraljava> See ya later. Hopefully.
<ttoine> ok
<scott-work> i just want the channel to know, specifically TheMuso, that a new kernel is being released
<scott-work> or updated
<scott-work> if you notice any changes in performance, you might mention it in channel so we can follow up with it
<len> scott-work ttoine  about display and arandr. It is a pain, but both are needed. It would be nice to bug the xfce guys about adding more dual (or more head functionality.
<len> Basically, display has the ability to save a configuration (including monitor position) so that on reboot arandr doen't have to be used every time to set dual heads up.
<scott-work> len: is using Display to save the configuration state included in the documentation you and holstein did?
<len> display creates a file in ~/.config/somewhere/  that gets read at login.
<len> I did include that in my docs yes.
 * holstein high-fives len!
<len> For next cycle it may be worthwhile either fixing display (sending the fix upsteam) or making our own display setter that saves to the right place.
<ttoine> scott-work, ok, I will notice you for the kernel
<ttoine> scott-work, I did a translation for fr-fr language of the slideshow, but I can't upload it to bzr
<ttoine> I am not part of the group for what I understand
<ttoine> can someone do it for me ?
<len> ttoine my workflow app playing around is at http://www.ovenwerks.net/UStudiodocs/workflow.html
<ttoine> scott-work, and I would like to report a bug in the menu, but I don't where I should do that
<len> ttoine: a longer thing on dual displays is at http://www.ovenwerks.net/UStudiodocs/dualmonitor.html
<len> ttoine: the menu is now a part of ubuntustudio-default-settings
<len> That would be the package to bug against.
<ttoine> ok, I will do that. thanks, len
<ttoine> len, I like your workflow switch application
<ttoine> it doesn't need to be very complicated. If it is possible that background color get the theme color, it would be great
<ttoine> len, I reported the bug of ubuntustudio-default-settings
<ttoine> astraljava, tell me when you see me again to send you the translated fr_fr.po for the slideshow.
<ttoine> bye, all
<astraljava> ttoine: I'm home again, so just ship it whenever.
<len-live> New menu now works. (todays ISO)
<astraljava> len-live: Great news!
<len-live> astraljava, yup it is nicer to use. I am noticing a few apps that I think should be excluded from the media menu... mudita24 and mixer. Wish I had spotted that before the filename was fixed it could have been done at the same time.
<len-live> I think for the same reason we want the mixer icon to start the PA mixer, The PA mixer should be the only mixer in the media menu.
<len-live> LP has been timing out on me so I can't make a bug... ttoine did a menu bug too, but I don't know what the bug is (bug number please) so In don't want to duplicate it.
<scott-work> len-live: bug #966539
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 966539 in ubuntustudio-default-settings (Ubuntu) "Mudita24 should not be in the "Media playback" submenu" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/966539
<astraljava> scott-work: So, am I to assume I'll make the mixer switch tomorrow? I'm pretty friggin' tired now.
<len-live> Ok, that is one... the plain mixer shouldn't either...
<scott-work> astraljava:  yeah, today is not going to happen, in fact micah was strongly suggesting that we make the fix after beta 2 is released
<astraljava> scott-work: I can make the change tomorrow, but we'll get it uploaded after the release.
<scott-work> len-live: can you add to that bug report then please? maybe even change the title to be less specific to mudita24?  maybe "mixers" or such
<scott-work> astraljava: that sounds good, thanks for you work on this :)
<len-live> scott-work, ok, I don't know what I can change... but I will do my best.
<astraljava> No worries. :) I'm gonna hit the hay now. See ya tomorrow!
<len-live> scott-work  bug 966539 updated to include the xfce mixer. The PA mixer is the default for desktop media players adding more is confusing. Hardware controllers belong in the mixer section
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 966539 in ubuntustudio-default-settings (Ubuntu) "Mudita24 and xfcemixer should not be in the "Media playback" submenu" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/966539
<len-live> i'll start an install now as the live version looks good.
<len-live> The slideshow scrollbars vanish as soon as I open the menu to start the screen shooter...
<len-live> The slideshow is still just a bit big... for a netbook screen.
<len-live> Is there a setting for how fast the slides change in the slide show? A slower slide change effect might be better.
<scott-work> going homes
<astraljava> scott-upstairs: Isn't it normally "going places" or something? I've never seen that phrase before. :)
<astraljava> Yea yea, I was supposed to go to sleep, but Xubuntu needs some love. *ahem*
<micahg> astraljava: please hold off on committing to -default settings until I fix the conf file issue
<micahg> hmm, I shouldn't have approved/uploaded that -default settings thing :(
<astraljava> micahg: Yep, I won't push anything until you give me a green light.
<micahg> can one upgrade from the US DVD?
<astraljava> micahg: Apparently not, at least Luke seemed to say that you can't do that from a live-dvd, only alternate discs act as a repository.
<micahg> ok, good, we won't need to respin for this fix
<astraljava> micahg: Right, thanks!
 * micahg needs to introduce ScottL to the bzr mv command
<astraljava> Heheh. :) Alright, now I'm gone to sleep for realsies. See ya tomorrow!
<micahg> ok, will wait for ScottL to appear to confirm something before uploading this fix
<ScottL> micahg, i'm here
 * ScottL is aware that there are many, many things he isn't aware of across a vast number of subjects
<micahg> ScottL: the new menu file is an exact copy of the other?
<ScottL> micahg, i simply renamed the file 
<ScottL> it is an exact copy otherwise
<micahg> ScottL: right, ok, so in the future, please use bzr mv for this
<micahg> I should've caught both of these, ok, uploading the fix for the conf file
<ScottL> micahg, ack'd
<ScottL> micahg, can you explain the consequences of my actions?
<micahg> ScottL: bzr rm and bzr add lose the bzr history for the file (well, it's there under the old file, but it would've been migrated had you used bzr mv
<micahg> astraljava: you're clear to touch -default-settings
<micahg> ScottL: conf file migration uploaded
<micahg> ScottL: all in all, it's a fairly innocuous goof that will probably go unnoticed
<ScottL> micahg, thank you, i shall not make the same mistake again
#ubuntustudio-devel 2012-03-28
<len-nb> hmm, our disto is crossed out on the qa site. so I can't add test results. Unless I hit the wrong site.
<ScottL> the might be respinning images again, there were issues with the kernel and update-manager
<ttoine> hop
<ttoine> astraljava, are you here ?
<astraljava> micahg: ACK. ttoine: Give me 30 min. to wake up and have some coffee. :)
<ttoine> of course ;-)
<ttoine> astraljava, what is your timeline ?
<astraljava> I am basically free to do stuff for Studio and Xubuntu the whole day, but I just have some other issues to take care of, and an aussie is also pestering me. But otherwise, let's move. :)
<ttoine> astraljava, I hope that your important phonecall was well ??
<ttoine> so, I translated the po file for french
<ttoine> but I can't upload it to launchpad
<astraljava> ttoine: No, I don't think that particular phone call is gonna make things turn out, but thanks for remembering. :)
<astraljava> ttoine: Did you just get that one file, or the whole branch?
<astraljava> ttoine: I think we have to file a bug against that package, and attach a debdiff against the package currently in archives.
<ttoine> I tried bzr... but actually, I was able to download, I tried to tell my launchpad account to bzr but it didn't work. So I get the file via the link you gave me
<astraljava> ttoine: So if you could just send the file to me at <$my nick@kapsi.fi>, then I'll move it forwards.
<astraljava> ttoine: Yeah. In some cases, you could push your own branch to LP, and then request a merge with the main branch, but it doesn't work that way with these branches that are imported from the packages.
<ttoine> hop, email sent
<ttoine> astraljava, what time is it in Finland ??
<astraljava> ttoine: Just reaching noon in a few seconds.
<ttoine> ok, so only one hour more than in France. As you just woke up, I was thinking you were far more on the west ;-)
<astraljava> ttoine: Yeah. :) I tend to stay up during the nights, as I'm currently temporarily laid-off, so I have a chance to follow the games in NHL. :) But yesterday I was just too tired, so slept in.
<ttoine> ;-)
<ttoine> astraljava, the ubuntu studio icon on the top left corner as a black background, so it is not the same color than the panel itself. Is it ok ? Or is it a bug ?
<astraljava> ttoine: I think that's a bug. But I have not dealt with the appearance stuff, so you should ping Scott and Len about it, they know more about those issues.
<astraljava> ttoine: Not seeing your email, are you sure you replaced my nick to the user part (before @) correctly?
<ttoine> astraljava, ok. Perhaps I should speak about that with Scott too, but I use a lot VLC in Ubuntu/Xubuntu because it reads near every multimedia files (audio, video, dvd), is very light, and has a plugin for jackd. Maybe we should consider to replace totem, xine and audacious by VLC, no ?
<ttoine> astraljava, yes, I actually just did a copy/paste.
<astraljava> ttoine: I'm a big fan of VLC, too. But we're most likely not going to make changes to app selections for precise anymore. But it could be done for precise+1, if vlc's license permits that.
<ttoine> I corrected that
<ttoine> astraljava, yes of course, I was not thinking about that for precise. And it will lighten a bit the iso, too: less librairies are needed, I guess
<astraljava> Yep, I see it now. :) Thanks!
<ttoine> astraljava, I put basics informations in the headers, but I am more used to translate wordpress themes than applications with .po files. So maybe I may miss a thing or two
<astraljava> ttoine: It's possible, but I'm not sure what's the catch there, I would assume it being used elsewhere if it was free to ship by default. I could be wrong, though. It could be added to the agenda as an item, when talking about features for precise+1-
<astraljava> ttoine: Ok. I'll see if it works, and let you know if something breaks.
<ttoine> thank you. To bad I can't upload it myself : my karma will not grow up ;-)
<astraljava> ttoine: Heh, yeah. :) Well, I can't upload either. But I can provide you the debdiff, which you can then attach to the bug, which you can file, so that way your karma will increase. :)
<astraljava> ttoine: Or actually, I can walk you through to how to make those debdiffs yourself, if you like?
<ttoine> astraljava, maybe, yes, I would be please to try
<ttoine> it will improve what I can do to help
<astraljava> ttoine: Ok great! This is the page I use whenever I can't remember how to do it (which is practically always :D ): https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Recipes/Debdiff
<astraljava> ttoine: If you don't have a dev release machine, there are several ways to do have a working environment. I do this in an schroot.
<astraljava> ttoine: You can skip to the "Creating A Debdiff" section, as we're not dealing with bzr branches in this particular case.
<ttoine> following the basic steps I have a bug with gnome-keyring...
<astraljava> ttoine: If you could pastebin the errors, then we can work on them.
<ttoine> astraljava, http://pastebin.com/jHUjWUB9
<astraljava> ttoine: What does the last part of the error message say? My french is a little rusty, still. :)
<ttoine> oh yes of course..
<ttoine> "no file like this"
<ttoine> maybe I should first connect to ubuntu one ??
<astraljava> ttoine: No, I don't think so. It has trouble finding your keys. Can you check if the daemon is actually running? `ps -ef | grep keyring-daemon`
<ttoine> http://pastebin.com/0d9Q8FBg
<astraljava> ttoine: Ok, so then do you have the SSH keys prepared? There's a good page for bzr usage on LP for this: https://help.launchpad.net/YourAccount/CreatingAnSSHKeyPair
<ttoine> oh yes, I didn't mind it, but when installing Ubuntu Studio, I took the time to erase my /home to get a true fresh install...
<ttoine> restart
<astraljava> Ok.
<ttoine> hop
<astraljava> ttoine: Alright, let me know how it progresses. I'll be hanging the laundry for a bit now.
<ttoine> astraljava, ok, the key is created and imported in launchpad. but I still have the problem with gnome keyring...
<astraljava> ttoine: Hmm... I have to look into that, I'm not using it for my key management.
<astraljava> ttoine: Is it the same error as before?
<ttoine> yes, the same one
<ttoine> I just installed seahorse and the key is here. after installing it the system asked for restart, so I do that again
<ttoine> astraljava, I don't know how to solve the connection problem... it is the first time I experience that trying to connect to launchpad
<astraljava> ttoine: Just a hunch, but if you do `eval "`gnome-keyring-daemon`"`, what happens when you try again?
<ttoine> astraljava, still the same...
<ttoine> gnome-keyring control is here : /tmp/keyring-wlH8of
<ttoine> bzr launchpad-login look for /tmp/keyring-UGjyXo/
<astraljava> ttoine: You probably have to do these after that eval thingie still:
<astraljava> export GNOME_KEYRING_PID
<astraljava> export GNOME_KEYRING_SOCKET
<astraljava> For some reason, it doesn't find the correct PID and SOCKET.
<ttoine> astraljava, so, now, bzr is looking at the right place, but not at the good file...
<astraljava> ttoine: Why is that? Can you pastebin the error again?
<ttoine> is it a common bug ? or just for me to tell "you are not a programmer, don't try to get bzr working" ?
<astraljava> ttoine: Like I said, I don't know as I don't use gnome-keyring for key management. :)
<ttoine> http://pastebin.com/0H0fD6mh
<ttoine> astraljava, what are you using ?
<astraljava> ttoine: I use keychain.
<astraljava> ttoine: Quite easy to setup: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/QuickTips#Tip_.233_Keychain_-_Manage_ssh_keys
<astraljava> ...although I must admit I didn't use that when I set mine up, so can't remember if it took more steps than that. Shouldn't have, though.
<astraljava> ttoine: Well, I have the same lines in my ~/.bashrc than those mentioned in that page, so it should work fine.
<ttoine> astraljava, I do not have at the moment a .bashrc in my home directory
<ttoine> should I create it ?
<astraljava> ttoine: Err... that's very strange.
<ttoine> even with keychain activated, bzr is still looking for the gnome-keyring key
<astraljava> ttoine: It is still, after all, the default interactive shell for users of Ubuntu and related.
<ttoine> but still the wrong file
<ttoine> yes
<ttoine> but is it a mess to use and setup
<astraljava> ttoine: Yes, but you should set up the keychain, disable gnome-keyring-daemon, reboot and make sure keychain finds your keys, and _then_ try bzr again.
<ttoine> perhaps it is a bug of xubuntu or ubuntu studio ?
<astraljava> ttoine: Which release are you using?
<ttoine> I installed the daily build yesterday
<ttoine> and updated this morning
<astraljava> Right. Do `ls -all | grep bash` and pastebin that here, please. I'll be moving to jussi's place now, back in an hour or so.
<astraljava> ttoine: Do that in your home, of course.
<ttoine> http://pastebin.com/misfh6SQ
<ttoine> astraljava, ok. I did it in my home, as you will see
<astraljava> ttoine: Yeah, so the file is there.
<astraljava> Ok, I'm offline for an hour or so.
<ttoine> yes, I created it
<ttoine> ok
<astraljava> Right, if you add that stuff to the file now, disable gnome-keyring-daemon, reboot, will it work then?
<scott-work> len: one reason for one of the recent respins was due to something you had pointed out; setting the cdimage = "BETA"
<scott-work> for those interested in seeing the "Beta 2 Tecnical Overview" for studio:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PrecisePangolin/TechnicalOverview#Ubuntu_Studio
<scott-work> and the "known issues" section as well:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PrecisePangolin/TechnicalOverview#Ubuntu_Studio-1
<scott-work>   
<ttoine> astraljava, yeahhhhhhh thanks. I just had to find a tip to disable gnome-keyring daemon and now I can do a launchpad-login with bzr !!*
<ttoine> so now, what is the next step ???
<scott-work> next thing i'll move onto is some PR for beta2
<scott-work> i have hesitated to do this before becase the image was so unstable and lacked function
<scott-work> if anyone else interested in helping with PR that would be great, i have a list of suggested place to post/email/talk about our great upcoming release and welcome any further suggestions
<ttoine> scott-work, if you are still nearby, I just would like to ask you where I should report that logo in the top left corner (the panel menu icon) has a black background and has not the same background color than the panel itself. Is ok, is it a bug ? maybe is it possible to edit the picture file with a transparent background ?
<astraljava> ttoine: So next you `apt-get source ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu`, and follow the steps on that page that I linked you to.
<scott-work> ttoine: that is strange (and i noticed it as well) but i did make the background with transparancy
<scott-work> ttoine: i wanted to investigate, but will do so later
<scott-work> however, if someone wanted to get the package source and look, that would be helpful
<ttoine> scott-work, astraljava is trying to teach me the basics of package modification, debdiff etc...
<ttoine> maybe I can do that. what is the name of the package ?
<scott-work> ttoine: that is outstandingly excellent!  i'm glad others are learning these valuable tools
<scott-work> the name of the package is ubuntustudio-default-settings
<scott-work> the menu is now in that package and the icon should be under the pixmaps directory
<scott-work> i'll check quickly
 * scott-work is checking location only right now, he's on a windows machine at work :(
<scott-work> okay, the menu logo image is in usr/share/pixmaps/ubuntustudio-logo-menu.png
<astraljava> ttoine: Let me know how you progress when you're following the steps in 'Creating A Debdiff'.
<ttoine> astraljava, so actually I replace the file in the sources with the one I translated and follow the steps to create the debdiff. right ?
<ttoine> scott-work, please, don't complain you have a job ;-)
<scott-work> ttoine: i meant more that i'm sad because i'm on a windows machine (which is a offshoot of being at work)
<ttoine> scott-work, where can I find a svg logo ? the current one has a black background
<ttoine> scott-work, ok. so you don't work with Linux desktops. I missed that point, sorry
<scott-work> ttoine: in the same directory there is ubuntustudio-logo.svg
<scott-work> i'm pretty sure that is the name, but there shoudl be an .svg file
<ttoine> ok
<astraljava> ttoine: Yes that's right.
<ttoine> scott-work, there is a bug with the theme in Inkscape : the edition background is gray, instead of being white...
<ttoine> astraljava, do I need to change the maintener name ??
<astraljava> ttoine: No, you don't change that, you only have your name in the changelog entry.
<ttoine> astraljava, I may have miss a thing : I have an error with signing...
<ttoine> will do it without signing it
<scott-work> ttoine: i'm not sure what you are telling me about the gray vs white background
<scott-work> ttoine: are you saying that inkscape has a bug that renders things inccorect or that the .svg file is broken due to a bug
<ttoine> scott-work, sorry, I find the problem. It is because in the svg file parameters, the background color was filed with a non transparent gray. so at the export it was a problem. I will save the svg file and the 2 png files and try to make a debdiff
<scott-work> ttoine: okay, i understand, thank you :)
<ttoine> scott-work should I change only ubuntustudio-logo-menu.png or ubuntustudio-logo.png too ?
<astraljava> ttoine: What's the error? It's about not finding your GPG key, have you created one?
<astraljava> It's probably about*
<ttoine> it is about a gpg key, yes. but is it not the same than the ssh key ??
<astraljava> ttoine: No, those are two separate things.
<ttoine> astraljava, ok... I will create a gpg key. You prefer that I sign the package and debdiff, so ??
<astraljava> ttoine: It's just good practice if you're going to participate in *ubuntu development in the future, good to start using it from Day 1 already. :)
<ttoine> ok, so I will do my work again once the gpg key is generated
<astraljava> scott-work: There's still the dash between Ubuntu and Studio in the slideshow.
<astraljava> ttoine: You only have to redo the debuild part.
<ttoine> astraljava, yes, I already guessed that point
<scott-work> ttoine: i would fix them all, if you don't mind
<scott-work> astraljava: are you and ttoine updating the package already?  can you fix that as well?
<astraljava> scott-work: I can look into it, sure.
<scott-work> astraljava: i ask because i don't have upload rights to that package and i would have to do the same work you are doing as well
<scott-work> i.e. getting pasi or someone else to upload my branch of it
<astraljava> scott-work: Alright, no problem.
<knome> file a UIFe with a link to the fixing commit, handle the freeze exception, and i can upload the change
<astraljava> scott-work: Apparently it's not in that package, so it can be done in a separate upload.
<scott-work> astraljava: really?  which slide (or file name) is it in?
<scott-work> it = "extra dash between ubuntu and studio"
<astraljava> scott-work: It's actually before the slideshow, I presume. But it's not in ubiquity package either. I'm gonna have to do more investigation on this one.
<ttoine> scott-work : should I fix only the ubuntustudio-logo-menu.png ? or maybe I put a transparent background to ubuntustudio-logo.png and to ubuntustudio-logo.svg ??
<scott-work> astraljava: can you get a screen shot, i'm very confused on where this could be
<scott-work> ttoine: i would put the transparency in all the files please
<knome> ttoine, if you update PNG's, please export them from the svg sources, where possible
<scott-work> knome: perhaps i did need your tutelage for the transparencies after all :P
<knome> heh
<astraljava> scott-work: http://astraljava.kapsi.fi/us_precise_dash-and-xubuntu-logo.png
<knome> hmm.
<knome> i wonder if that dash has to do something with the disk name
<knome> i mean, technical name
<knome> doesn't drives have labels
<scott-work> astraljava: sorry my friend, i understand now
<astraljava> knome: It's possible, as that string can't be found easily in any of the most obvious packages.
<scott-work> i think knome is rigth
<ttoine> astraljava, so now I have the debdiff for the slideshow. what should I do ?
<scott-work> astraljava: i'm sure colin has it to read the image name to make the code easier and more flexible
<scott-work> just like he does with the image apparently
<astraljava> ttoine: Great! Now you file a bug against the package, and attach the debdiff as a patch in it.
<ttoine> scott-work, knome ok I will do that and generate the debdiff. I let you know when it is ready, so then you can tell me what the best to get it fixed
<astraljava> scott-work: Right, so I should go talk to him about it.
<knome> ttoine, what is it you are fixing anyway? :)
<ttoine> knome, the background of the logo in the top left corner
<ttoine> astraljava, should I use ubuntu-bug command ? because I can't find a way to report a bug on launchpad...
<scott-work> astraljava: maybe knome can offer some insight, but i worry about timing, should we wait until either after beta2 is officially released or even until next cycle?
<ttoine> astraljava, forget my question
<scott-work> ideally i would like this fixed for precise, however
<ttoine> scott-work, I check the "this attachement is a patch" with the debdiff ?
<scott-work> ttoine: i believe you should
<ttoine> done
<ttoine> astraljava, scott-work it is bug #967138 for slideshow
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 967138 in ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu (Ubuntu) "Ubuntu Studio fr.po is not translated in french" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/967138
<ttoine> wow , impressive...
<ttoine> scott-work, can you add me to the ubuntu studio developper so I can assign the patch to us ?
<knome> https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/precise/+source/ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu/+pots/ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntustudio
<knome> the translation deadlines aren't passed yet
<astraljava> scott-work: I filed bug 967140 as per Colin's request. It might not get done, though, as you said, it is derived from the cdimage.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 967140 in Ubuntu CD Images "Ubuntu Studio branding problem; name spelled with a dash" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/967140
<ttoine> astraljava, gpg don't want to work. How can I check that the key I generated is available ?
<astraljava> ttoine: You need to have your credentials for DEBEMAIL and DEBFULLNAME exactly like you had them when creating the key.
<scott-work> ttoine: i have had trouble with launchpad not recognizing my gpg key but it was due in part to my ssh key i believe (this may be horribly, horribly incorrect)
<scott-work> i this i had to generate a new one
<scott-work> s/this/think
<scott-work> ttoine: i believe i have added you to the -dev group
<ttoine> #967160
<scott-work> astraljava: i will add background image and icon to the branding bug report
<astraljava> scott-work: Depends. If you're using LP with bzr, it only cares about your SSH.
<scott-work> bug #967160
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 967160 in ubuntustudio-default-settings (Ubuntu) "The logo background is not transparent" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/967160
<astraljava> Ooh! Love the background, absolutely LOVE IT!
<astraljava> ttoine: I do have a template .bashrc on a fresh install from yesterday's image, so something was f*cked on yours.
<ttoine> astraljava, perhaps, yes...
<ttoine> astraljava, I figured that I didn't attached my new pg key to my launchpad account. I did it, now waiting for the confirmation email.
<ttoine> scott-work, thanks for addind me. I assigned ubuntu studio devel to the 2 bugs
<astraljava> ttoine: Yes, but debuild doesn't check the key from LP, it checks against the environment variables DEBEMAIL and DEBFULLNAME.
<ttoine> astraljava, thanks a lot for taking time teaching me how to do that kind of stuff
<ttoine> hum, and how do I set debemail and debfullname ???
<astraljava> ttoine: No problem, glad to have more contributors on the project. :)
<ttoine> astraljava, and I a Ubuntu Studio developper again, many years after being one of the early ;-)
<astraljava> ttoine: It's best to add them into your .bashrc, as lines: export DEBEMAIL='<email_like_you_gave_in_GPG_key>' and export DEBFULLNAME='<name_like_previous_email_in_GPG_key>'
<astraljava> ttoine: I know, makes me happy that you've come back. :)
 * abogani is happy too
<ttoine> scott-work, let me know if I can do other things like that. I have a lot of time for a couple of weeks
<ttoine> astraljava, maybe I did a mistakes with real name and my nickname, something like that
<ttoine> tomorrow, I will try to generate new ssh and gpg keys with checked information and see if it works better
<scott-work> astraljava: which background?  the desktop?
 * scott-work is happy that abogani is happy :)
 * ttoine is happy that everybody is happy
<astraljava> scott-work: Yeah.
<scott-work> astraljava: the lightdm-theme wasn't uploaded, which used the same image for the lightdm background as well
<scott-work> astraljava: i kinda liked that look, gave it a very contiguous look
<scott-work> astraljava: my thought would be to not use the *exact* image however, but perhaps add "ubuntu studio 12.04 (LTS?)" on top of the lightdm background in the bottom left
 * abogani has prepared a new lowlatency kernel:
<abogani> 1) Rebased on latest generic kernel 
<abogani> 2) Reworked UKT changes to make kernel git rebase-able
<abogani> 3) Re-enabled specific lowlatency kernel configuration
<astraljava> scott-work: Why not, sounds good to me.
<astraljava> abogani: Nice! Will you let Luke know, or want us to do it?
<abogani> I'll let TheMuso know when I'll have uploaded those bits in my git tree. In this way he could decide if accept changes.
<astraljava> abogani: Excellent. Thanks so much!
<abogani> TheMuso: Could you review my changes in my git tree (binary is available at https://launchpad.net/~abogani/+archive/broken/+packages), please?
<abogani> TheMuso: I can change again to recovery your commits. I removed those only for time constraints.
<abogani> TheMuso: Thanks in advance.
<ttoine> astraljava, just to know because I know I can't do more, can you tell me the way in order that the fix I did are available in the updated packages ?
<astraljava> ttoine: I think we should ping micahg to verify the fix, and then approve and upload it.
<astraljava> ...which I just did.
<astraljava> *grin*
<micahg> astraljava: what fix?
<astraljava> micahg: bug #967138
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 967138 in ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu (Ubuntu) "Ubuntu Studio fr.po is not translated in french" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/967138
 * micahg would think that's translated in LP
<astraljava> micahg: Hmmm... I did look at the package source in LP, but didn't see any mention of translations there.
<micahg> oh, right, that doesn't quite make sense :)
<astraljava> I can check again.
<micahg> it should go into the main branch for it and then uploaded, but I think this is too late for beta 2
<micahg> you can subscribe ubuntu-sponsors for that one
<knome> https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/precise/+source/ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu
<knome> again
<knome> re: translations for the slideshow:
<knome> 18:40 stgraber: people NEED to translate on LP, translations done directly in the branch are usually lost
<ttoine> should I subscribe ubuntu-sponsors or is it already done by someone ?
<ttoine> astraljava, micahg, and what about bug #967160 ? 
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 967160 in ubuntustudio-default-settings (Ubuntu) "The logo background is not transparent" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/967160
<ttoine> knome, what is LP ?
<knome> ttoine, LP == launchpad
<ttoine> knome, what should I do ??
<knome> ttoine, https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/precise/+source/ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu
<knome> ttoine, open the ubuntustudio template
<knome> ttoine, select language
<knome> ttoine, translate
<micahg> ttoine: that one astraljava can commit if he approves and we can upload after beta 2
<micahg> he has some other fixes for that package as well
<ttoine> micahg, knome, ok
<ttoine> I am on
<knome> astraljava, ?
<knome> ScottL, ?
<ttoine> astraljava, knome, scott-work, micahg,  french translation done on Launchpad for Slideshow
<ttoine> Is there any other package for Ubuntu Studio to translate ??
<knome> ttoine, okay, now poke somebody responsible for the french translations
<knome> ttoine, (to *accept* the translations)
<ttoine> knome, when you mean somebody... who ? somebody of the french translation team, for example ?
<knome> ttoine, yes
<knome> ttoine, at least they can point you to the right direction if not else :)
<knome> ttoine, once you do that and the translations are accepted, they should be in with the next upload
<ttoine> knome, ok thanks. I have asked to join the french translation team. I will try to see where I can "poke" someone
<micahg> ttoine: #ubuntu-translations, maybe #ubuntu-fr
<ttoine> micahg, ok
<ttoine> micahg, #ubuntu-translations is empty
<micahg> oops
<micahg> #ubuntu-translators maybe
<ttoine> bon appÃ©tit !
#ubuntustudio-devel 2012-03-29
<TheMuso> abogani: Please make sure you preserve the changelog that is present in the linux-lowlatency package in the archive. You can find what I've done in git://kernel.ubuntu.com/themuso/ubuntu-precise-lowlatency.git
<len-live> todays ISO says beta. I don't see other changes.
<scott-upstairs> knome, ping
 * scott-upstairs is hoping, but not expecting, him to be awake
<scott-upstairs> anyone know how to make the damn background in inkscape be transparent?
<len-live> I normally use gimp...
<len-live> scott-upstairs, I opened the icon.png with gimp. There is a fuzzy select tool.
<scott-upstairs> i got it
<len-live> select the background
<scott-upstairs> i did the background correct in inkscape
<len-live> Great, I don't know that program at all
<scott-upstairs> but the preview wasn't showing any linear gradients (which made me think it inkscape wasn't working)
<scott-upstairs> AND i did the alpha over/composite wrong
<scott-upstairs> it's all good
<scott-upstairs> hopefully release my first netcast tonight :)
<scott-upstairs> well for a select audience for feedback on production values
<len-live> Gimp, shows checker for clear.
<len-live> ScottL, the proper way to fix the plymouth text theme is to create a new one and add it to the ubuntustudio-look package
<len-live> I have the text and colours where I want them.... I think
<len-live> The text is as close to the US logo blue as I could get and the background is a slightly bluish dark charcoal.
<len-live> The "progress" dots alternate from text colour to red.
<len-live> Next I need to figure out how to do a diff to send to the bug...
<abogani> TheMuso: Which changelog are you talking about? The debian.lowlatency/changelog file or the git's log?
<knome> ScottL, if you are still uncertain; file -> document properties -> tab page -> "background"
<ttoine> hi
<ttoine> ScottL, knome what about having a Twitter account for Ubuntu Studio ? I mean that if the new website is based on Wordpress, it is very simple to sync with Twitter. So it would be good way to communicate more with the community, create some buzz, etc...
<knome> ttoine, xubuntu has a twitter feed, and while it's not even integrated with WP, i think it's a good thing
<ttoine> knome, there is to possibilities : have a separate twitter feed, and display it on the WP website
<knome> ttoine, i know
<ttoine> knome, or the other way, send all WP news to the Twitter feed
<knome> well
<knome> https://twitter.com/#!/XubuntuLinux
<knome> this is what we've been doing
<knome> (look for a bit older items)
<ttoine> knome, you have a separate twitter feed, this is not sync with the website
<knome> ttoine, as i said, "while it's not even integrated with WP"
<ttoine> ok
<knome> some attention please ;)
<knome> we are possibly doing that later
<knome> but it's not the #1 thing in our list right now
<ttoine> maybe it would be great to be on social network
<ttoine> of course, it is not #1
<ttoine> knome, do you know if there is anything I can do today ??
<knome> no, not really, i'm working on xubuntu content stuff and going to be afk soon
<ttoine> afk ??
<knome> away from keyboard
<ttoine> ScottL, the french translationof the Slide Show is validated. It will be available with next update of the package.
<scott-work> astraljava: did you experience any troubles with the ISO testing you recently completed for amd64?
<astraljava> scott-work: It booted into a fine installed session, but I didn't have time to check all bits and pieces. At least there was an update-notifier icon in the top panel, so it could access the internet properly.
<scott-work> astraljava: no problems with the kernel?  (i realize you didn't get under the hood)
<scott-work> kate stewart is asking about releasing the beta 2 image and i want to make sure we have a modicum of comfortability about them :P
<astraljava> scott-work: Did she give any deadlines?
<astraljava> scott-work: I'd need to check the Xubuntu sessions as well, so I could run with them both for a bit, if there's still time.
<scott-work> she didn't and i didn't ask yet
<scott-work> i don't know if we even updated the kernel or not at this point
<scott-work> right, i'll be honest about it and see what she says
<astraljava> scott-work: Yeah, I can run it for a bit still, I suppose the deadlines used to be around 2100 UTC, but am not sure.
<scott-work> astraljava: would you be able to run a minimal test on the kernel (just gross, top-level, sanity check) within a few hours?
<astraljava> scott-work: I would, for sure.
<astraljava> scott-work: I can even install it on real hw meanwhile.
<scott-work> thank you, if we can get a single good test on the kernel, then i would think the rest can be taken as good
<astraljava> Yep.
<astraljava> knome: There are scrollbars in the slideshow of amd64 being installed on real hw.
<scott-work_> here's my video i uploaded:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BCO1Ebobdz4
<scott-work_> please don't share outside this channel at this point
<scott-work_> but i would like feedback
<astraljava> len: ailo: scott-work_: Gimme a quick run-down on how to test for xruns best on a clean install?
<astraljava> I just installed the proprietary nvidia drivers, and will make glxgears running while the tests are run for audio performance.
<astraljava> Erhm... why is there even a mention of KXStudio on our Preparation page of help.u.c?
<astraljava> Surely that's not correctly preparing for a Ubuntu Studio installation, to enable that PPA?
<astraljava> falktx: This is in no way criticism towards your work.
<scott-work_> astraljava: i think ttoine might have added that, he was touching that page
<astraljava> We may have to talk about the proper documentation for the project, and what belongs to it, and what's in the more general multimedia section.
<falktx> astraljava: no prob
<astraljava> gah, we're pretty damn huge again. 2.0GB even for i386 image.
<scott-work_> astraljava:  i think we also need to discuss where we _should_ have documentation
<scott-work_> there are reasons both pro and con for the help.u.c. website and ubuntustudio.org website
<astraljava> scott-work_: You're right there.
<astraljava> falktx: Any thoughts on how easiest to test for xruns on a clean install?
<falktx> there was an app to test latency
<falktx> not sure how to test xruns...
<astraljava> falktx: Latency would work, too.
<astraljava> I'm just wanting to have a quick glance over the performance of the kernel.
<falktx> I don't remember the app name, but it tested the time it took for a sound to get from speakers to mic
<falktx> (ie, connect both, run app)
<astraljava> Right, ok.
<scott-work_> astraljava: my thought was that any testing would quickly show any serious errors
<scott-work_> astraljava: i.e. just do some recording or such and if the xruns are large by orders of magnitude then we have a problem
<scott-work_> astraljava: otherwise it's probably okay
<astraljava> scott-work_: I'm running an rt-tests from someone's kernel git tree.
<astraljava> Seems to work fine.
<astraljava> But I can't seem to build a test box for the i386 testing.
<scott-work_> astraljava: i was more worried about the configuration of the kernel for when it was built mainly
<scott-work_> astraljava: so if it "seems" to run fine on one architecture i would think we would be okay
<astraljava> scott-work_: But the kernels are different for each arch, that was the point for testing both.
<scott-work_> oh yeah, the pae thing
<scott-work_> i was just worried mainly about the config files
<astraljava> knome: Correction, scrollbars in the slideshow of an i386 install as well, for real hw I mean.
<TheMuso> abogani: the changelog that resides in debian.lowlatency.
<knome> astraljava, meh. i still haven't seen them in the xubuntu slideshow. maybe we should just cut the images for studio
<len> astraljava scott-work my xrun testing is mostly running sound in and out through effects with the lowest lat. that my hardware will handle.
<len> On the desktop I have used -p 64 (I may be able to do less) and the netbook jack won't even start any lower than -p 128. But once they are running there are no xruns on either.... except on the netbook the headphone jack is detected and speaker turned on/off so plugging unplugging the headphones produces 1 xrun. One or both of my systems seem to get an xrun or two when the monitor powers off after screen blank. The quick fix is to change power manage
<len> r settings.
<len> Both machines are i386
<len> The reality is, I don't know the system well enough to make sure I have both of them set up optimally for sound. So my tests are mostly "out of the box" tests.
<len> scott-work_ has a tail today...  ^^^
<astraljava> len: Thanks! Yeah, that's too time-consuming to set up for this occasion. I found a kernel test suite that I am running now. It'll do for now, until I get more experience in using the tools I help setting up. :)
<astraljava> knome: Yeah, I mean, it's such a chore to actually _try_ the installer yourself, right? *snicker*
<knome> astraljava, well no, i'm not touching the filthy stuff you're producing
<knome> >:)
<astraljava> I will soon rub that filthy stuff all over your hard drives if you won't learn some basic manners. :D
<knome> i'm sure.
 * astraljava is such a convincer
<knome> i was almost to throw you a !coc, until i realised that wasn't a word that started with the exact same letters
<astraljava> Umm... consumer? Container? What?!
<knome> does those start with coc?
<knome> some attention please
<astraljava> Hehehe.
<astraljava> Gotcha.
<knome> gah. this minesweeper is impossible
<knome> i have had to make two guesses already, and yet another is coming up
<knome> oh, there it went
<astraljava> Record?
<knome> nah. stepped on a bomb
<astraljava> damn
<knome> besides, i just installed gnomine on this machine. any "passed" would be a record :)
<astraljava> Yeah, assuming you _could_ actually pass any... *grin*
<knome> hah
<knome> well, the large one is actually quite hard.
<astraljava> Granted.
<astraljava> Thanks guys for your excellent work on the kernel! I'm still not an expert by far when it comes to kernel issues, but as far as I'm reading these test results, this kernel RAWKS!
<astraljava> Both on i386 and amd64.
<astraljava> I gave both images green lights on -release. We shouldn't be expecting any problems with either of them.
<len> Yup, the only issue really is qjackctl. anything else is looks.
<astraljava> scott-work_: You should have read in here first. :D
<knome> yummy, good rum
<astraljava> IHATEYOUIHATEYOUIHATEYOU!1one
<knome> meh. i'll offer you some when you get back here again
<astraljava> I'll see to it. :D
<astraljava> scott-work_: Did you prepare for release notes?
<knome> "release notes? what are those?"
<knome> :]
<scott-work_> astraljava: i did the technical overview notes already, skaet sends out an email about three days before the release
<astraljava> scott-work_: Excellent, thanks!
<scott-work_> they did an abridged version in the release email
* astraljava changed the topic of #ubuntustudio-devel to: Ubuntu Studio Development Channel | https://code.launchpad.net/ubuntustudio | Beta-2 images released, go play!
<scott-work_> astraljava: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PrecisePangolin/TechnicalOverview/Beta2#Ubuntu_Studio
<scott-work_> astraljava: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PrecisePangolin/TechnicalOverview/Beta2#Ubuntu_Studio-1
<scott-work_> the first is the "we did this" section and the second is the "we didn't fix these" section
<astraljava> scott-work_: Ahh... so it is, I failed in reading the whole email Kate sent out. My apologies. :)
<astraljava> I see a new kernel version accepted into the archives. Heads up! :)
<scott-work_> no problem, friend :)  but i am kinda disappointed kate's email didn't include a link to the entire overview and that our section was paraphrased
<scott-work_> oooooh, new kernel
<astraljava> scott-work_: But not lowlatency yet. :)
<astraljava> Thanks everyone who helped testing! You guys|gals RAWK!
<scott-work_> indeed
<scott-work_> astraljava: did you see my video?  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BCO1Ebobdz4
<scott-work_> i'm a dork in it (as is real life)
<astraljava> Haven't really had a chance to watch it, yet. Will do so in a few.
<astraljava> ScottL: Way cool. :)
<astraljava> Gotta love kids. :)
<ScottL> thanks astraljava  :)
<astraljava> ...aaaaaand we have lowlatency updated as well. Thanks, Luke! :)
<ScottL> and alessio too
#ubuntustudio-devel 2012-03-30
<abogani> I'm not happy at all about this ^
<abogani> Luke have locked kernel so I can't neither change or updated it.
<abogani> Good catch guy. You are like any other member of the UKT.
<micahg> he's not a member of the UKT :)
<abogani> Indeed he seems.
<CFHowlett> meeting this sunday are we?
<abogani> ScottL: Could you remove me from Maintainer field in lowlatency kernel, please?
<micahg> abogani: I'm sure he'd like help, he mentioned that you need to keep the changelog entries when updating
<abogani> micahg: But he have dropped his git tree so I can't recent changelog.
<abogani> s/recent/get recent
<abogani> micahg: Are you part of Canonical staff?
<micahg> yes
<micahg> abogani: I'm sure there's still a git tree, just ask him to let you know where it is and update the Vcs-Git in the package
<abogani> Vcs-Git point to my git tree!
<abogani> You can't take a critical look at things made by your colleagues, evidently.
<micahg> Vcs-Git: http://kernel.ubuntu.com/git-repos/ubuntu/ubuntu-precise-meta-lowlatency.git
<micahg> abogani: just encouraging you not to abandon something you obviously care about due to miscommunication
<abogani> They have changed my work (aka commits) without any communication, change authorship of patches which I have written and finally make me work worst for non obviously reason. Sure there is a miscommunication problem here but not made by me.
<micahg> abogani: I never accused you of miscommunication
<micahg> abogani: we value giving proper attribution to contributors, if this is not happening, it needs to be addressed
<scott-work> i am upset about alessio and the lowlatency kernel
<scott-work> the reported callousness WRT alessio's work is disturbing
<scott-work> as i was committed to getting the lowlatency kernel into the repository, i am also committed to developing, documenting, and making sure we follow a proper maintenance procedure for it
<scott-work> my weekly email for the release-team meeting will include a line item about this as well (although the "line" item will actually be several lines)
<astraljava> Yeah, I have no detailed info regarding the matter, so I don't have any input on the matter. Just that it's unfortunate.
<knome> astraljava, re: release meeting: 16:24  ogasawara: I recall skaet mentioned yesterday that the meeting is canceled for today and she'd call an impromptu meeting on monday if needed
<scott-work> kate has stated previously that we most likely would not have meeting directly after a (milestone) release
<astraljava> knome: Yeah, I noticed.
<astraljava> Fine by me.
<astraljava> So, now that it's official, we can plan for the amd64+mac images for the Q release, as I'm gonna have a Mac for a work laptop in the new job that I'm starting a little over two weeks from now.
<holstein> you mean, PPC?
<astraljava> holstein: No, those are for the powerpc chipsets. The new line of Macs with Intel hardware.
<holstein> im over hopping through hoops for that hardware
<holstein> i have a few that i got for free, and im just not into them anymore
<astraljava> Yeah, I wouldn't get it for myself personally, but as for a workhorse, it's ok.
<holstein> hey... if it works, it works
<holstein> personally, i plan on buying either used hardware, or machines with linux pre-loaded
<holstein> i wonder what all the new bios changes, and whatever is up with the mac is going to add to the work load for projects like *buntu
<astraljava> holstein: I don't know, yet, but I intend to find out soon when I have the machine to test with.
<holstein> i need to get something running iOS i think.. for testing
<holstein> too bad you really cant get away with virtualizing those
<scott-work> now that what is official, astraljava ?
<astraljava> scott-work: The new job.
<scott-work> oh, i didn't realize you had announced it, sorry...but congratualtions again! :)
<astraljava> Thankee. :)
<scott-work> astraljava: i updated bug #967140 to include the icon image and slideshow background as well
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 967140 in Ubuntu CD Images "Ubuntu Studio branding problem" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/967140
<scott-work> (i'm sure you got the email for it)
<astraljava> scott-work: Ok. Colin wasn't sure he would be able to do anything about it. It's got links to the cdimage, so it's possible that bug will not progress, in which case we need to find another way to make changes to the distributor logo.
<scott-work> do anything about the icon?
<astraljava> scott-work: The bug isn't about the icon. But if you agree with him about changing the description, then it can be transformed to other branding issues.
<scott-work> i didn't see him say anything about changing the description, astraljava 
<scott-work> i changed the description in the bug
<scott-work> am i being presumptuous about the bug?
<scott-work> did colin say it might be possible to update this before final release?  or was he deferring it until p-cycle?
<scott-work> s/p-cycle/q-cycle
<astraljava> scott-work: No, I don't think you got the point. My "complaint" was about the dash in the name of our distribution. Colin said he wasn't sure there was anything he could do, as it was so tied to the cdimage thingies, ie. very low-level stuff. Hence I'm afraid it's pointless in adding more stuff in that bug, regardless whether they refer to branding or not.
<astraljava> scott-work: Or is it so that the distribution-logo dependent on the cdimage as well? I wouldn't know, but if it was, then the change in the bug description would be totally justified.
<astraljava> scott-work: ...and there you have it, Colin commented on the bug.
<scott-work> astraljava: aye, i understand now
<ttoine> astraljava, scott-work, the beta 2 is available. Should I make a new fresh install ??
<astraljava> ttoine: It would be good, for further bugs are still to be found,  I'm sure. :)
<knome> astraljava, are you saying you have hidden bugs in the ubuntu studio? oh my... :)
<astraljava> knome: Oh bugger off, you <beep>ing <beep> <beep>!
<knome> khihihi
<ttoine> astraljava, I think I will do a fresh install. at the moment, I did an update. Is there anything to change to be an on the beta 2 from a beta 1 ? just make a dist-upgrade is enough ? Or should I change the repositories ?
<astraljava> ttoine: No, just as usual, the packages are updated, nothing else.
<knome> ttoine, just do any pending package updates
<ttoine> astraljava, I was not sure. so actually the beta 2 is just a kind of daily build ?
<astraljava> ttoine: In a way, yes. A snapshot, if you will.
<ttoine> astraljava, ok. sometimes, I think I ask idiot question
<astraljava> ttoine: Not by any chance. It's not obvious, unless you're following the development closely.
<ttoine> astraljava, is there any stuff you want me to check in the beta 2 ??
<astraljava> ttoine: Not really, I'm not aware of any known bugs. Just test it to its limits. :)
<ttoine> astraljava, sure, I'll do that ;-))))
<astraljava> ttoine: Great, thanks! :)
 * ttoine is dreaming for a minute to create a company offering Ubuntu Studio workstation and laptops 
<astraljava> That'd be sweet, yes. :)
<ttoine> the main problem would be to find a good motherboard with no irq problem
<knome> risky though, if astraljava has been hiding the bugs
<ttoine> knome, ;-)
<astraljava> Probably. Take a look at the stuff mentioned on openoctave site.
<ttoine> astraljava, I just had a look at the openoctave project. Is there anything about hardware ?
<astraljava> ttoine: I'm not sure, but I bet the Wendy's studio setup is free of any conflicts. :)
<ttoine> astraljava, Wnedy ?
<ttoine> Wendy ?
<astraljava> ttoine: http://www.indiegogo.com/OPEN-OCTAVE-STUDIO-You-are-the-music-We-are-the-means
<astraljava> ttoine: Scroll down a bit. That's what you get for $10k. :)
<ttoine> astraljava, yes, ok. too bad the brand of the mother board isn't named ;-)
<astraljava> ttoine: I'm sure they will tell you if you email them. :)
<ttoine> astraljava, just speaking of hardware, I am amazed because everybody use Intel cpus... but Amd are cheaper for the same power, need less electricity and heat more, meaning less fan noise.
<ttoine> but maybe a full Intel (gpu included) would be the best to produce audio..
<astraljava> ttoine: Sure, but they're still a bit behind in processing power. 
<ttoine> but which applicaiton really use hyperthreading ??
<astraljava> True. I'm not sure either.
<ttoine> at the moment, AMD is leading the cpu market for hyper computing centers
<astraljava> Ok, I'm not up-to-date on such matters.
<ttoine> astraljava, I try to do my best to be up to date but it is very hard
<ttoine> the best for performance would certainly be amd cpu with nvidia gpu. but the matter is more about the main chipset (usb, sata, pci, etc...)
<ttoine> astraljava, anyway, thanks to the link to Open Octave. It seems to be a great project. Maybe we should consider to have it in Ubuntu Studio, if it is possible
<astraljava> ttoine: I agree, and will bring it up when planning for Q dev cycle.
<len> astraljava, congrats on the job.
<astraljava> Thanks, Len!
<len> ttoine scott-work and all, re testing beta 2, I have had problems with the Mar 28 ISO. With qjackctl not starting jackd.
<len> I did not test the live session. And it was after the new kernel installed itself before I tested it.
<len> It was working fine before, so this is really something to watch.
<len> I am DL todays ISO and will check Live and install. I will also try using ardour to start jackd to see if it is just qjackctl
<astraljava> len: I'm afraid there is no updates to the images. We will have to debug the qjackctl bug outside of the general development of the distribution.
<scott-work> len: did you mark bug #925257 as 'incomplete' ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 925257 in pulseaudio (Ubuntu) "pulse jack bridging no sound from pulse clients" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/925257
<ailo> len: You could try starting jack from the command line. Only, qjackctl is probably set to use jackdbus, so there are two optional commands to use when starting jackd.
<ailo> len: First, check which audio device you want to start. Either look in qjackctl, or do: cat /proc/asound/cards
<ailo> Then start jack like this: jackd -d alsa -d hw:0
<ailo> If hw:0 is the card you want to start with
<ailo> Actually, I've never started jackdbus from the command line
<ailo> Have to see how that works
<ailo> jackdbus is cool, but I just hope it's not messing up regular jackd. Have to look more into that
<ailo> Seems like you need something to control it. Regular ardour was not aware it was running. Just running jackd for a moment from the command line seems stable, but this is not US. Just regular Ubuntu, with the pa bridge installed
<ailo> To start jackdbus you just do: jackdbus auto
<ailo> But that doesn't get you anywhere
<ailo> len: So, if you just want to start jack, just start it like I said: jackd -d alsa -d hw:(?)
<ailo> Also, you could try disabling jackdbus from qjackctl to see if that helps
<ailo> That will of course only affect qjackctl
<ailo> jackdbus usually stays running for me in the background after a crash, so make sure to kill it if that happens
#ubuntustudio-devel 2012-03-31
<len> astraljava, there does seem to be a new image today (mar 30) 12% difference from mar 28.
<len> The jackd thing seems to come and go, one day it will work the next image not... then on again.
<len> jackdbus auto seems to get run when qjackctl is started... not when run is hit. 
<CFHowlett> meeting this sunday??
<len> ScottL, I have not marked the jack-PA bridging incomplete. as far as I know that part works consistently... so long as I can get jack to start.
<len> Sorry for not answering sooner... I was doing family time ;-)  ok I'm not that sorry, family is pretty important too.
<len> ailo I will try some of those things after I print the memory stick.
<len-live> ailo this seems to be a jack-PA interaction. I don't know that bridging is the problem though.
<len-live> if I login and start jack with qjackctl, it starts fine. jack and PA bridge and there are no problems.
<len-live> If I start a PA application (audacious) and it is playing and then start jack I have a problem. Exit qjackctl and audacious ... restart qjackctl and it still doesn't work. kill PA and everything works again.... including PA.
<len-live> PA control does some wild and wonderful stuff. I am bridging PA to jack. pavucontrol shows both the jack sink and the "speaker". The audio is going into jack and the so i can control the level going to jack. But the I can also still cotrol the soundcard levels from pavucontrol too with the speaker volume even though this output is not selected.
<astraljava> len-live: Ok, then it was just halted for one day only.
<ailo> len: jackdbus needs an application to control it, so it's not as simple to start from the command line. When jackdbus is running, it will show as "jackdbus" among the list of running processes. But, if you disable dbus for jack, you'll see "jackd" in the list of processes instead.
<ailo> Or, disable dbus for qjackctl is what I mean
<falktx> ailo: jack_control does the same as jackd, but for dbus
<ailo> It's getting a little ridiculous as what dependencies are concerned. Removing jackd2 and replacing it with jackd1 makes you have to uninstall some apps, like ardour
 * falktx hates debian/ubuntu use of jack1 vs jack2, it's crazy
<len-1204> ailo: I'm not sure, but I may be seeing a difference in the way jack works from one kernel to the next. (or maybe there have been changes in jackd or PA)
<len-1204> a week or two ago, I could start jack with qjackctl while PA was playing audio.
<len-1204> It was still jackdbus auto back then.
<len-1204> The audio would stop because jack grabbed the hardware. But just changing where PA was sending the stream would correct things
<len-1204> Now, if PA is playing audio, qjackctl can't start jackd.
<len-1204> Once qjackctl has failed to start jackdbus... it seems the only way to set things right is to kill -9 jackdbus and kill PA (which just restarts itself)
<len-1204> Then start jackdbus before any audio stream.
<len-1204> I was wrong. PA does not have to be restarted.
<len-1204> but the stream has to be stopped and jackdbus stopped and started before the stream is restarted.
<len-1204> I get the same problem if I use qjackctl or jack_control
<len> falktx: do you happen to know if it is expected for ubiquity to download software updates as part of the install process, but not install them?
<len> After install, the newsoftware version star comes up and says new sofware has already been downloaded but needs to be installed.
<len> No complaints, just seems odd.
<falktx> not sure
<falktx> last time I checked ubiquity didn't installed updates, the reason was to make install times faster
<len> So they are downloaded but not installed. I guess that means machines designed to be run off net can be hooked up for as little time as possible.
<len> ailo, playing with jackd and friends... Using jack_control instead of qjackctl to start/stop jackdbus.
<len> len@music1204:~$ jack_control stop
<len> --- stop
<len> DBus exception: org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.NoReply: Message did not receive a reply (timeout by message bus)
<len> As you can see it  gives the same message as qjackctl.
<len> But jackdbus has in fact stopped and jack_control restarts it just fine.
<len> Interesting, qjackctl tracks the status of jackdbus just fine when it is being stopped/started even when the above error message is received be jack_control.
<len> qjackctl seems to stop jackdbus differently than jack_control. qjackctl stops jackdbus in a way that leaves the jacksink output in PA active while with jack_control, jacksink goes away when jackdbus is stopped.
<len> qjackctl setup does have a way not to have the applications still running dialog when stopping.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2012-04-01
<nonau> I have to say, pangolin beta 2 seems pretty faithful to the old gnome 2 based ubuntu studio.  The new menu order will take a bit of getting used to but it seems a lot cleaner than before.
<ScottL> anyone up for a meeting in ~ 2 hours?
<len> ScottL here or there?
<astraljava> ScottL: o/
<astraljava> No time to prepare for chairing, though, so it's up to someone else.
<len> astraljava whats to talk about?
<astraljava> len: Just going through the remaining bugs/work items for precise, and start planning for Q cycle.
<len> figured...
<astraljava> I don't see this as necessary for a formal meeting, but whatever Scott decides.
<astraljava> len: If you could prepare for a summary regarding the jackd/jackdbus/qjackctl/whathaveyou problem, that'd be great.
<len> astraljava: I'll do my best.
<astraljava> len: Thanks a bunch!
<astraljava> I haven't had time to do that from your reports, unfortunately.
<len> astraljava: have you seem a small app called qmidictl?
<astraljava> I'm preparing for a move, so time is short.
<ScottL> also, i would like to make the "no sound from jack/pulse bridging" bug if we think this isn't a problem
<astraljava> len: Can't say I do.
<len> I hate moving!
<ScottL> i'm not worried about chairing or agenda today
<astraljava> ScottL: So it sounds like an informal, then.
<ScottL> BUT i would really like to address what bugs we are going to fix before RC
<astraljava> ScottL: Ok good.
<ScottL> i'll have a list before the meeting that are probably good
<ScottL> but i would really like to have people's commitments as to which they will fix
<len> qmidictl is a small control app that is ment to be a remote midi controller using qmidinet. Sort of what I was looking for a while ago.
<ScottL> in all honesty, of all the bugs that we *can* fix for RC, if someone else will do the mixer plugin one, then i can probably handle the rest, more or less
<astraljava> ScottL: I will commit to fixing the mixer plugin. Most likely tonight.
<astraljava> ScottL: We can then talk about the rest.
<ScottL> astraljava, sweet!  i like it
<len> ScottL, I don't think I will have time to complete the text theme for plymouth.. 
<ScottL> len, that
<ScottL> len, that's okay, it would be nice but i don't think it's critical for 12.04
<ScottL> the main thing i want to make sure we do is...
<ScottL> 1. make any changes we want
<ScottL> 2. make the changes quickly
<len> It would require making a new theme and adding it.
<ScottL> 3. test the heck out of them
<ScottL> len, keep in mind, we already have a ubuntustudio-plymouth-theme or is that plymouth-theme-ubuntustudio
<ScottL> and i think it already might include the text based theme
<ScottL> if not we can steal xubuntu's and change some text
<len> Yes but we need two themes for plymouth, the graphic one and the text one. we don't have a text theme.
<ScottL> because i think it stole xubuntu's earlier when i made the plymouth theme :P
<ScottL> i think it's pretty much as easy as copying the "extra" directory ("xubuntu-text" or such) and putting it in our package
<len> I have the file ready for a text theme, it would add to ubuntustudio-look.
<ScottL> the install should copy both wehere they need to
<ScottL> len, i don't think it should go under ubuntustudio-look, this is a plymouth thing
<ScottL> let me go upstairs and find a few things for you
<len> That is where I found the current plymouth theme
<scott-upstairs> sorry, got distracted on the way upstairs
 * scott-upstairs is doing fifty things at once as usual
<scott-upstairs> len, here is where xubuntu has theirs:  http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/precise/xubuntu-artwork/precise/files/head:/lib/plymouth/themes/
<scott-upstairs> notice the two directories, which are both under lib/plymouth/themes
 * scott-upstairs thinks he might have egg on his face :P
<scott-upstairs> len, you were right about the ubuntustudio-look package being the one with the code
<scott-upstairs> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntustudio-dev/ubuntustudio-look/UbuntuStudio/files/head:/lib/plymouth/themes/
<scott-upstairs> so, if we copy the /xubuntu-text directory into our source package and rename a bunch of stuff, i would think it would work pretty easy
<len> I am not worried about what files go where, I have already tested that part. I no longer seem to be able to put another version in my LP home... that is I don't seem to have a link to add a branch to my junk dir
<len> Maybe I am missing something. or have forgotten (already)
<len> I will see if I can look at it at all later, but I need to do family time today... my wife will have our two kids at home for the next two weeks for spring break...
<scott-upstairs> len, have fun!
<scott-upstairs> astraljava, since it's just you and me apparently (is that right, anyone else?) can we dispense with the meeting then?
<scott-upstairs> given your commitment to the mixer plugin, i'll make a list of the things i will do and then post to the mailing list
<scott-upstairs> i can list other bugs/tasks that aren't critical we might do if someone volunteers (or maybe we might get to)
<len> scott-upstairs, re. PA, jackdbus etc. I think we are going to have to live with what we have.
<len> Everything works... but needs extra attention sometimes
<scott-upstairs> len, that's okay
<scott-upstairs> len, do you mind marking up the "no sound" bug as invalid?  if you don't want to/have time to update the status i can do it, but only if you feel comfortable with the change
<astraljava> scott-upstairs: Yeah I don't mind, whatever you wanna do.
<len> scott-upstairs we will need to do some docs on the work arounds
<len> Sorry I was going to ask the bug number...
<astraljava> Hmm... no email app by default, is that right?
<scott-upstairs> bug #925257
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 925257 in pulseaudio (Ubuntu) "pulse jack bridging no sound from pulse clients" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/925257
<scott-upstairs> astraljava, aye, we took thunderbird and evolution out previously
<len> It would be nice to not have the mail icon in the indicator area of the panel ;-)
<astraljava> scott-upstairs: ACK
<len> scott-upstairs bug #925257 is now invalid
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 925257 in pulseaudio (Ubuntu) "pulse jack bridging no sound from pulse clients" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/925257
<astraljava> len: It's not just for mail, there's other notifications as well, like from pidgin (but then I'm not sure whether we have _any_ app installed by default that uses it).
<astraljava> len: You could file a bug about it.
<len> astraljava, in thinking about it. US comes minus lots of apps that are going to be added by the average user. The chances of the installer adding something that uses that icon is probably quite high.
<len> In fact it would be nice to have  a ubuntustudio-extradesktop meta hanging around that could be installed at the users choice.
<len> astraljava, the way we have US is nice, as it means an easy way to set up a dedicated artwork computer.
<len> but lots of us have to be able to do more with the few (maybe only one) computer(s) we have.
<len> An easy way to get the standard apps without having to pull in unity or xubuntus themes for example would be nice. (im thinking next cycle here.)
<astraljava> len: Yeah, I understand that. Maybe the little envelope isn't that bad, after all? If seems to be a part of indicator plugin anyway, so might require considerable effort on get rid of it.
<astraljava> len: Just make sure to keep these in mind and document them as feature requests for the Q cycle. We're going to have the tasks chooser in ubiquity anyhoo, so having that populated with more items wouldn't hurt.
<len> scott-upstairs ScottL  ^^^ sorry should have put it up there.
<scott-upstairs> len, ack'd
<len> scott-upstairs, astraljava. looked at qjackctl. I am not sure how active development is. Last version is almost a year old.
<scott-upstairs> qjackctl should have seen improvements for jack-session, but i don't think much else is going on
<scott-upstairs> if falktx's stuff gets into debian we could also look at using some of his tools
<len> Aye. Starting and stopping jackdbus is not hard... but the patch bay is really nice to have.
<len> I guess before I worry about that I should talk to the developer ;-)
<len> scott-upstairs One other thing I noticed is that PA uses a lot _LOT_ of cpu cycles even when idling. Next cycle we should look at ways of stopping it while doing jack only stuff. 33% on my machine when in use... 15% when idling.
<scott-upstairs> len, this kinda ties into my idea of a "recording mode" button in the panel, could stop networking, pulse, other stuff and maybe even change the menus or panels
<scott-upstairs> just an idea
<scott-upstairs> len, we also have patchage for connections (and also ardour lets you make connections as well)
<len> Yes I have been thinking about that. I think it might even be worth changing the runlevel to get rid of some of the system stuff... like cron for example.
<len> Cron can introduce sudden activity when unexpected...
<astraljava> len: Yes, I'm a little concerned about such. They really won't do on an audio production machine, there's a real catastrophy waiting to happen there.
<scott-upstairs> alright, i'm going to help the wife do some stuff outside
<len> I have to go as well... Bye
<astraljava> ScottL: anyone: Am I wrong here, or is there no bug for the volume management change for Studio?
<ScottL> astraljava, which volume management?  is this the thunar thing?
<astraljava> ScottL: No, silly. :) The mixer change. :)
<ScottL> oh, yeah, no bug of which i am aware
<ScottL> so the mixer change involves volume management?
<astraljava> ScottL: Uhm... maybe a terminology clash, here. I mean audio volume, not media volumes.
<astraljava> ScottL: Ie. what volume control app it uses by default, xfce4-mixer or pavucontrol.
<ScottL> aye, i understand now
<ScottL> i am still confused about the 'thunar' on the 'home' icon on the desktop
<astraljava> ScottL: What should I write into the changelog, then, to avoid the apparent confusion?
<ScottL> i thought 'mixer plugin backend' was descriptive
<ScottL> but maybe not correct
<astraljava> Ok, I just wrote about a mixer app and got done with it. :)
<astraljava> ScottL: Yeah, that opening Thunar is confusing, and slightly alarming.
<astraljava> Would be good to investigate a little. I'll see if I have time over the coming week.
<ScottL> astraljava, did you file a bug on the mixer plugin?  can you share the bug #
<ScottL> oh, i guess i could stalk your profile and see what bugs you filed :P
#ubuntustudio-devel 2013-03-25
<zequence> fix for jackd just got uploaded to quantal-proposed
<zequence> Precise as well
<zequence> That'll be happy news to announce to people
<zequence> I uploaded the latest debian git of ardour3 to a PPA. Let's see if it will build
<len_1304> Cool. Good news about jackd as well.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2013-03-26
<zequence> anyone got their @ubuntustudio.com adress to work yet?
<zequence> seems like the Ardour3 package depends on newer versions of other packages, than what is available to Raring
<zequence> So, doesn't seem to be buildable right now
<falktx_> hm?
<zequence> falktx_: I used the git tree provided by Debian MM
<falktx_> https://launchpad.net/~kxstudio-team/+archive/ppa/+sourcepub/3034334/+listing-archive-extra
<falktx_> me too
<falktx_> I even have it in 12.04, using updated boost packages
<zequence> falktx_: Did you also update the dependencies? If you did not build against what is available in Raring, it won't help much
<falktx_> why is that? it runs fine here...
<zequence> My goal was not to make it run, but to build it for Raring
<falktx_> I'm not sure what's going on then, I built it just fine
<zequence> falktx_: So, did you update the dependencies, or no?
<falktx_> have been doing so from a couple of svn versions before the release
<falktx_> zequence: for raring, not at all
<falktx_> which dependencies?
<zequence> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/135265308/buildlog_ubuntu-raring-amd64.ardour3_3.0~dfsg-1ubuntu1_MANUALDEPWAIT.txt.gz
<zequence> After installing, the following source dependencies are still unsatisfied:
<zequence> libraptor2-dev(inst 2.0.8-2 ! >= wanted 2.0.9) liblrdf0-dev(inst 0.4.0-5build1 ! >= wanted 1.0.15) libserd-dev(inst 0.18.2~dfsg0-1 ! >= wanted 0.18.2) libsord-dev(inst 0.10.4~dfsg0-1 ! >= wanted 0.12.0) .. etc
<falktx_> those are stupid
<falktx_> except raptor, but ardour doesn't use that
<falktx_> ah wait, sord is right
<falktx_> but look at serd:
<falktx_> libserd-dev(inst 0.18.2~dfsg0-1 ! >= wanted 0.18.2)
<falktx_> it's actually 0.18.2 in there 
<falktx_> so I guess I updated some dependencies, basic lv2 libs
<falktx_> (and to build without debug, again)
<zequence> falktx_: I'm not very used to waf builds, but where in the Debian package build does it make it build in debug mode?
<falktx_> http://anonscm.debian.org/gitweb/?p=pkg-multimedia/serd.git;a=blob;f=debian/rules;hb=HEAD
<falktx_> override_dh_auto_configure:
<falktx_> ...
<falktx_> --debug \
<falktx_> ...
<zequence> Ok, not Ardour3
<zequence> When I have time, I will go through all of them
<zequence> I also want to test the difference some day, just out of curiousity
<falktx_> if you doubt there's a difference, I will stop talking to you...
<falktx_> it's just common sense...
<falktx_> I'm pretty sure the packager of those already got the message about debug builds by now, since it was disabled in qjackctl in a few others
<falktx_> *and a few others
<zequence> I just like to see what is important or not in how things are configured. Many suggested configs for audio are more or less 0 efficient, while others make almost all the difference
<zequence> It is difficult to get a broad understanding without a big amount of machines though
<ttoine> LIghworks: we will we be making the Linux Public Beta, which includes a much improved licensing scheme, available on 30th April 2013
<len_1304> zequence, what does ardour with their download packages then?
<len_1304> Do they include these deps too?
<zequence> len_1304: The installers at the Ardour site include all deps locally
<zequence> len_1304: That is why they are installed in /opt/, I guess. All the deps end up inside the ardour folder
<zequence> But, when packaging for Debian, it's all Debianified
<len_1304> So they are still loadable libs then not part of the one binary.
<zequence> I haven't investigated in detail, but you don't need to install deps separately
<len_1304> I haven't really looked through what I have downloaded either.
<zequence> It's of course possible to create a package like that too, if one wants to
<zequence> For Debian, I mean
<zequence> There are some people who would prefare a system like that
<zequence> Would mean apps take more space
<len_1304> I would wonder if there would be problems with a loadable lib of a different version and other software, I think it has to be static.
<zequence> Usually, libs are backwards compatible
<len_1304> Both on disk and in  memory, it would take more space
<zequence> But, not the other way around
<zequence> That's true
<zequence> Simpler to maintain. Easier to update individual packages
<zequence> More waste
<len_1304> Might be the easier way of dealing with gcdmaster
<zequence> Don't know what the policy is on this though
<zequence> madeinkobaia: hi
<madeinkobaia> Hi :)
<zequence> madeinkobaia: It's actually very early to be talking about wallpapers, but the idea is we put together some sort of submission contest for each cycle
<madeinkobaia> ok
<zequence> We're also in need of art for social sites, our OS, and also the website. But, we haven not discussed much on how to go about this
<madeinkobaia> I am greatly interested for work on graphical interfact too or any other graphical projects
<zequence> madeinkobaia: Right now, we have a very minimal look on social sites https://www.facebook.com/Ubuntustudio
<zequence> https://plus.google.com/u/0/b/102125777892703446963/102125777892703446963/posts?partnerid=gplp0
<zequence> The name is done using the Ubuntu font
<zequence> The icon, the name, and the slogan should all be used for social sites, as well as the web site
<madeinkobaia> Indeed that will need some improvements 
<zequence> What I would like to see, is a unified theme idea
<madeinkobaia> I must leave now :( how to stay in touch ?
<zequence> madeinkobaia: Drop by here anytime
<zequence> Or post on our -devel mail list
<madeinkobaia> Ok, I will do that, see you soon : ) 
<zequence> See you :)
<madeinkobaia> Bye :)
<ttoine> zequence, lightworks will soon release the public beta for linux. before the one for Mac
<zequence> ttoine: That will be interesting to see :)
<ttoine> yes !
#ubuntustudio-devel 2013-03-27
<len-1304> Hmm, systemd is invading ubuntu. Bit by bit.
<Len-nb> zequence, considering I can get 1ms latency with the low latency kernel... what does he need an RT kernel for?
<zequence> Len-nb: Not everyone can get that low latency with any kernel, but I get the impression this is a young guy who is just interested in building a kernel
<Len-nb> experience can't hurt then.
<Len-nb> The number of people who try rt because they have problems and still have problems after is quite high
<Len-nb> fixing irq/smi/video/hyperthread problems first makes more sense
<Len-nb> but there are some people who are never satisfied too.
<zequence> From the little amount of testing I've done -rt is definately better, all though -lowlatency is enough for most people
 * zequence is drinking coffee and studying Debian packaging.
 * zequence is finding out that the packaging tutorial is outdated - what a surprise
<len-1304> Looking at some of the raspberry Pi info.
<len-1304> If it is half as successful as envisioned, it will have more to do with bringing new users to Linux than just about anything.
<len-1304> A childs first computer use in school is very formative.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2013-03-28
<madeinkobaia> Hi, we started a conversation 2 days ago and zequence told me that you need some help for improve the layout for UbuntuStudio social network interfaces (I think Google+ and Facebook mainly), I am still interested for work on it :)
<holstein> madeinkobaia: that would be great!
<holstein> i think scott is the google+ account holder
<holstein> not sure though
<holstein> madeinkobaia: have you tried claiming admin right?
<madeinkobaia> holstein : no, should I ?
<holstein> madeinkobaia: well, if you want to maintain them, id say thats a way to do it
<holstein> i thought we were having issues with the FB account.. but i dont remember specifics
<madeinkobaia> In fact we could start like that, I first do the banners (witch is the main graphical element for google+ and fb) I send the result on the dev mail list, what do think ?
<holstein> madeinkobaia: works for me. i would send/share them here too.. sometimes things get missed on the list
<madeinkobaia> Ok, so we will work directly by mail, if I understand ?
<len-1304> There may be a launchpad branch for that.
<len-1304> but you can start with email.
<madeinkobaia> Ok, mine is : madeinkobaia@gmail.com
<len-1304> Join the ubuntustudio-devel mialing list
<len-1304> That is where it would go. zequence does not seem to be active right now, but will probably say something later today if you are still connected.
<len-1304> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/Ubuntu-Studio-devel
<len-1304> is the page to join our devel mailing list
<len-1304> madeinkobaia, ^^
<madeinkobaia> Ok I already joined the list, 
<len-1304> I'm looking for the lanchpad page too... I'm on a new install so I have no bookmarks :P
<madeinkobaia> ok :)
<len-1304> Ok this is where the current social media stuff is kept: https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntustudio-dev/ubuntustudio-resources/art
<madeinkobaia> Ok ! I goin to take a look on it
<len-1304> You can branch the code with bzr to see it and if you make changes to it you can upload to a private branch under your name and propose merge
<len-1304> subscribe zequence to the merge
<madeinkobaia> Sorry, what do you mean by  "bzr" and "merge" ? (sorry my english is not perfect ;) )
<len-1304> bzr is a program that you run from a terminal.
<len-1304> The command to branch the code (that is download it to your system) is on the project page: bzr branch lp:~ubuntustudio-dev/ubuntustudio-resources/art
<len-1304> If you set yourself up a launchpad account then you can "push" to that account.
<len-1304> I should have a url to point you that explains it better than I do.
<madeinkobaia> Ok, I already have an account on lauchpad I will do that
<madeinkobaia> ok
<len-1304> The guys who normally have this stuff at the "tip of their fingers" are not here right now :)
<madeinkobaia> ok
<len-1304> If there is any problem we can use email as a fall back though so no worries.
<madeinkobaia> Great, no problems anyway ;) 
<madeinkobaia> About the banners I would like to basically copy the design of the ubuntustudio site, or do you need something else, different ?
<len-1304> I am not the one to ask on this. No artistic sense at all :)
<madeinkobaia> lol, ok
<len-1304> look for zequence scott_work, smartboyhw.
<madeinkobaia> ok
<madeinkobaia> Well I start to work on the g+ banner now for the rest we stay tuned :)
<ttoine> hello
<len-1304> ttoine, 0/
<len-1304> ttoine, I hdon't like alacarte, but arronax doesn't replace it from what I can see.
<len-1304> xfce will be coming out with an xfce menu editor soon too.
<len-1304> arronax may be worthwhile including as well as whatever else we have though
<len-1304> arronax is gnome heavy as well.
<len-1304> It should be easily possible to do the same thing with gtk libs only using python.
<len-1304> In fact a translation portion could easily be added as well.
<zequence> madeinkobaia: No hurry with learning bzr and that stuff, but it does greatly help if you get a LP account
<zequence> ttoine: Please don't add workitems for raring
<zequence> ttoine: We won't be doing any other work than fixing bugs until release. Final Beta will be out next week
<zequence> I guess we should already begin next release blueprints
<zequence> I'll have that done soon
<len-1304> zequence, it was just in the white board
<zequence> Ah, I missed that
<zequence> That's actually the best place for now
<zequence> madeinkobaia: I think making something using the website theme is a good idea. And it would be interesting to see the results. If it looks nice, I think we could change quite soon. Just remember, we like to keep the slogan "linux for creative humans", and we want to add that to the website too
<madeinkobaia> zequence : I already created an LP account few months ago (my account is madeinkobaia) about bzr, its not complicated I think, I used to work on VCS and other stuffs and if my neurones are still awake there will be no problems 
<zequence> madeinkobaia: bzr is not difficult. Especially with artwork. So, you should have no problems
<zequence> madeinkobaia: As for the future, and I mean like one year from now 14.04, it would be nice if we had something new, themewise for our website and social channels. Also, the desktop. But, that is a lenghty project, and I think we need to do some proper planning for that - put down some directions on what we are looking for aesthetically
<ttoine> zequence, ok, but at the moment, I can't find spec about +1
<zequence> ttoine: Yeah, I know. we don't have on yet :). I didn't look closely enough. thought you added a workitem, which you didn't. Not a big deal anyway. It's not like it would change anything physically
<ttoine> it was just a whiteboard comment actually
<madeinkobaia> zequence : About the design, as I have your approbation I will do it in that way : match with the website design and keep the text as it is. About the choice of the font I will try with the official "Ubuntu" font or maybe choose another one (I got the choice in OpenFontLibrairy). For the logo and other graphical material I think I can get it somewhere on the Ubuntu main site.
<zequence> madeinkobaia: The Ubuntu font is something all of the flavors are using (I think), so that is something that we know works well, etc. But, since we are about multimedia, and that includes art, it would make sense to do something of our own, yes. So, doing one of each sounds good
<zequence> madeinkobaia: I was going to add you to the -art team, but made a mistake. You will be getting some mail about that :)
<zequence> madeinkobaia: Anyway, welcome to the team. You will have push rights to the bzr tree now. I changed the ownership, so it's owned by ~ubuntustudio-art now
<zequence> madeinkobaia: https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntustudio-art/ubuntustudio-resources/art
<zequence> madeinkobaia: To get the branch, I would do:
<zequence> bzr branch lp:~ubuntustudio-art/ubuntustudio-resources/art ubuntustudio-art
<zequence> When you've added something, and you want to share it:
<zequence> bzr commit -m "description of changes here"
<zequence> Then:
<zequence> bzr push
<zequence> Or, rather:
<zequence> bzr push lp:~ubuntustudio-art/ubuntustudio-resources/art
<zequence> That's all you need to worry about
<zequence> madeinkobaia: If you made a commit, regret it, and you haven't pushed it yet, you can do:
<zequence> bzr uncommit
<zequence> Only do that, if you have not pushed
<zequence> ttoine: Sorry for being particular, btw. And not reading more carefully.
<ttoine> zequence, it is ok
<ttoine> bbl
<madeinkobaia> I am back :)
<madeinkobaia> Wow, thanks for add me as member, that's really great :)
<zequence> fixed jackd2 was accepted into quantal and precise -proposed, so they will want them to be tested. I'll be doing that right now
<zequence> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/jackd2/+bug/956438/comments/17
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 956438 in jackd2 (Ubuntu Quantal) "jackdbus crashes on stop" [Undecided,Fix committed]
<zequence> Ok. Did the tests. Verified it. All that remains is releasing them.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2013-03-29
<zequence> len-1304: I'm looking at orphanded Debian packages, to see if there's something worth maintaining, as a step towards learning packaging http://www.debian.org/devel/wnpp/orphaned
<len-1304> I wish I had one off the top of my head to tell you :)
<len-1304> gcdmaster :)
<zequence> Doesn't seem to be on that list
<zequence> It has a maintainer Christian HÃ¼bschi
<zequence> huebschi.christian@gmail.com
<len-1304> sounds ominous. 
<len-1304> does that mean someone is actually updating it or that it is just being used for cdrdao?
<zequence> Here's a list of packages up for adoption http://www.debian.org/devel/wnpp/rfa_bypackage
<zequence> It jsut means it's considered to be maintained
<zequence> If it's not being maintained, it should probably be orphaned
<len-1304> Well cdrdao is being maintained and there is a package
<len-1304> it is just being build without the GUI
<len-1304> (which it does automatically if it can't find the right libs)
<zequence> cdrdao is actually orphaned
<zequence> Same maintainer
<len-1304> gcdmaster is a part of  that
<len-1304> cdrdao once is used by a number of other projects... including ardour
<len-1304> though not directly
<zequence> To me it seems it's the other way around
<zequence> gcdmaster depends on cdrdao
<len-1304> how so?
<len-1304> yes
<len-1304> k3b, ardour and others also depend on cdrdao
<len-1304> not as a depend, but the workflow depends on it
<len-1304> I don't think there is any other disk at once cd writer, is there?
<zequence> I'll think about taking this on. I'll put it on a list
<len-1304> I can't get cdrdao once to build even, but I am not using the package from ubuntu or debian.
<len-1304> I am using the tarball
<len-1304> The needed libs for gcdmaster are still in repo BY the way.
<len-1304> zequence, cdrecord does do some DAO recording (the cdrkit page on the other hand just says it is a fork but has almost no documentation at all) using .cue files
<len-1304> I do not know if cue files allow all the features that .toc files allow... or for that matter if ardour uses all the features cdrdao provides
<zequence> len-1304: I just applied for Debian Multimedia Team membership
<len-1304> OK, I thought you had already :) good
<zequence> I was waiting. Was going to work on bug fixing and such first, but it seemed like now was a good time as my packaging skills have improved that much
<zequence> I'll be taking over maintenance for cdrdao and maybe gcdmaster as well
<len-1304> They are both the saem package.
<zequence> to begin with
<zequence> They are not
<zequence> Not in Debian, anyway
<zequence> ah, no
<zequence> I see
<zequence> I never checked the source package
<zequence> Made a mistake about cdrdao. Not considered a multimedia package. There's one team that deals with cdr-tools, and is a fairly small team
<len-1304> Just reading the cdrtools (the cdrecord page)
<len-1304> It appears that cdrkit is also unmaintained
<len-1304> My look at the cdrkit page seems to confirm that
<len-1304> cdrkit has not been touched since 2007
<len-1304> zequence, ubuntu and debian use cdrkit. It also appears unmaintained. Soon there will be no cd writing packages :)
<zequence> Last commit to cdrkit on Debian was 2010
<zequence> By a former Debian project lead
<zequence> That was upstream though
<zequence> Last debian changelog entry is 2011
<len-1304> I was just gong by their web page
<len-1304> The last release was old
<len-1304> Ya 2010
<len-1304> I'm looking at too many pages.
<len-1304> Anyway, there are still some issues with cdrkit in some modes.
<len-1304> It seems to work fine if the image is first written to disk, but has problems doing on the fly writing... taking a collection of files and writing them to a dvd without making an image first.
<len-1304> k3b tries to do this by default.
<len-1304> I am told cdrecord works this way.
<ubuntu-studio> http://paste.ubuntu.com/5658652/
<zequence> When I added the PromptOnLogout, it worked once. then each time I tried clicking the menu i never got the menu. It would jsut logout
#ubuntustudio-devel 2013-03-30
<len-1304> One less bug, we have a working search utility today, new catfish is out.
<len-1304> Our internet menu has an icon for mail reader. We don't ship a mail reader. We could either have this open USC with some mail readers on the screen or hit firefox either along or directed to gmail for example.
<len-1304> zequence, ^^^ any ideas?
<len-1304> s/along/alone
<Len-nb> zequence, I just pointed mail reader at firefox.
<Len-nb> I used debcommit to commit which should change the bug to committed I think, is there a delay?
<Len-nb> I guess I need to change it manually
<Len-nb> micahg, whenever you see this. there is a minor bugfix found in daily/beta testing in -settings I fixed. Even if it is wrong it won't break anything. Release if possible please.
<len-1304> micahg, not to say I haven't tried it. Works here.
<madeinkobaia> Hi all :)
<len-1304> hello 
<madeinkobaia> Hello len, I have finished a project for the google+ banner, I will add it on launchpad in +- 30 minutes.
<len-1304> Great.
<len-1304> probably best to use unique names for your files... not the same as the files that are already in the package
<madeinkobaia> I be back when its on line :)
<len-1304> Yup
<madeinkobaia> Oops, about which package you're talking ? (sorry I am a newbie on launchpad) 
<Len-nb> I think you are putting stuff in the art package so don't put new art in with the same name as what is in there now.
<Len-nb> That way we keep a repository of all art.
<Len-nb> (though I am sure zequence keeps a copy of anything he has done on his own machine too.
<madeinkobaia> In fact, I just want to upload the preview picture of the banner, is there a special location for projects / drafts ?
<len-1304> That I don't know. I'm not an artwork person. zequence  would know. I think you could probably add a directory for that though if you want. Call it drafts
<len-1304> madeinkobaia, I haven't even looked at that package, so I am not sure what is there now.
<madeinkobaia> Thanks len, I will create a draft folder, anyway zequence will organize all that correctly later. 
<len-1304> Ya
<len-1304> Me and the boys are going for a bit, so I won't be around for a while
<madeinkobaia> Ok guys, sorry I am late :(
#ubuntustudio-devel 2013-03-31
<micahg> len-1304: ok, will look at uploading tonight, you might need to poke someone in -release to get it out of -proposed though since we're in beta freeze
<len-1304> Ok
<len-1304> micahg, Thank you.
<micahg> len-1304: hrm, MailReader seems wrong as Firefox is a web client, not a mail client (I'm guessing you don't seed one by default)
<micahg> TerminalEmulator=Terminal should work as Xubuntu has that
<len-1304> When I use Terminal I get a dialog asking me to choose a terminal.
<len-1304> When I choose one It puts the text in the user file I put in.
<len-1304> micahg, Yes we don't have a mail client.
<micahg> ok, do you think studio needs a mail client?
<len-1304> We have not had one as long as I can remember. Most people I know use a web client.
<len-1304> A web client allows using it mobile
<len-1304> We will not be adding one for R cycle for sure though.
<len-1304> micahg, ^
<micahg> ok, so mailto links work with Firefox set?
<len-1304> Probably not, should I rather leave it unset then?
<micahg> idk, maybe experiment?
<len-1304> Mailto links don't work either way.
<micahg> hrm, maybe leave it unset then?
<len-1304> But there is a mailer item in our menu, right now it gives a dialog asking where the mailer client is.
<micahg> right, but does setting to Firefox DTRT?  and what mailer item?, maybe that should be removed
<len-1304> IDK where the menu item came from
<Len-nb> OK, I'll unset it
<Len-nb> micahg, Ok, mailreader is unset
<Len-nb> micahg, the mailer menu item is part of exo-open
<micahg> right...
<Len-nb> I don't think I should remove that
<micahg> I think the idea is to have a sane default if there's a mail reader
<Len-nb> anything wrong with leaving it unset then? micahg?
<micahg> technically, no, but you're just guaranteeing a popup when they click on the exo item
<Len-nb> Ya better than having a new browser tab that is no help
<micahg> it's your user experience, I'm just the upload monkey :)
<Len-nb> A popup tells the user there is no client
<micahg> if you're happy with that, it's fine :)
<Len-nb> I'm not making a decision to include a mail client at this point though
<Len-nb> ok lets get it done, file manger and terminal are important
<micahg> FWIW, I think there's a way to make Firefox work with mailto for stuff like gmail and the like, but not sure if it's worth doing that at the moment
<Len-nb> Not everyone uses any one mail service
<micahg> right
<Len-nb> The best I can get with mine is the login prompt
<micahg> Len-nb: uploaded
<len-1304> Ok, so I go to #ubuntu-release then? and ask what?
<len-1304> micahg, ^
<len-1304> I say it is in proposed then?
<micahg> hrm, it might still just migrate
<len-1304> I'm putting an pointer to the bug anyway.
<micahg> len-1304: you'll have to ask for it to be accepted
<micahg> archive is frozen
<len-1304> micahg, I have asked
<len-1304> micahg, having said I can't get mailto to work with squirrelmail... I just figured it out :) Helps me but not Studio.
<micahg> :)
<madeinkobaia> Hi all, the banner preview for Google+ is on the ubuntustudio-art/ubuntustudio-resources/art branch (drafts folder) : )
<zequence> madeinkobaia: cool
<madeinkobaia> : ) Hi zequence
<zequence> hi
<zequence> madeinkobaia: nice work!
<madeinkobaia> Thanks a lot : )
<zequence> I like the wave you added 
<zequence> We were thinking about something like that to emphezise what Studio is about
<madeinkobaia> Great, yes it gives a graphical dynamic
<zequence> madeinkobaia: I like all of the material. I wouldn't mind using this right now. Also, it seems like something that would work for our next LTS, but perhaps then it would be nice to modify it a little. 
<zequence> Just to give it fresh feeling once LTS comes around
<zequence> I'd rather like to add this type of style to our website too
<madeinkobaia> Ok, I was thinking you need something quickly for the social networks
<zequence> len-1304: I'm doing some updating on our Team Structure. I'm appointing madeinkobaia as our art lead. smartboyhw will be our release manager
<len-1304> Sure, works for me.
<zequence> len-1304: I'll also want to add smartboyhw to our development team. I feel he's better in sync with how that works now, and he shouldn't be touching the source unless there's a reason (like when needing to fix a bug, and no one else is around)
<len-1304> zequence, I don't know if you are keeping notes but it has been suggested we ship parted... not just on the ISO but to install as well
<zequence> len-1304: We don't have any partition manager at all?
<zequence> If no, I agree
<len-1304> I don't see it in my menu.
<zequence> len-1304: I kind of picture you as being responsible for desktop functionality, since you are doing most of the work on that
<len-1304> I don't mind
<len-1304> zequence, new version of our settings package today.
<len-1304> zequence, as part of that update, we came across the question about a mail reader.
<len-1304> I am not sure why we don't ship one. (I don't use one and so don't care personally)
<len-1304> But I am guessing it is the same as why we don't have a word processor etc.
<zequence> If we ship those, we should either use what Xubuntu uses, or use really light weight alternatives
<zequence> Do they include Libre Office (that would be too much IMO)
<len-1304> That is just it, they have abiword, but anyone who needs a word processor would install libre office anyway.
<len-1304> So why provide anything?
<len-1304> We already have an office sw installer, maybe just add mail clients that way too.
<len-1304> A lot of people use some sort of web mail client anyway.
<zequence> len-1304: sw isntaller sounds good
<zequence> It's probably something publishing would want, btw
<len-1304> Well there is one in office too., but some of those things could be duplicated in publishing... but really the default place for a word processor is in office.
<zequence> Sure
<zequence> ok, just became member of Debian Multimedia Team :)
<len-1304> whats next? :)
<zequence> len-1304: I'll start doing some packaging for them. Probably some puredata libraries. Should be simple enough. 
<len-1304> Good start
<zequence> I think I want to see about what would be the best way to package jackd though
<zequence> Considering the problems with realtimeprivilege, and groups
<zequence> We might need to introduce a new group, and make it default on Debian, Ubuntu and other derivatives
<zequence> realtime is one that is suggested. It makes sense for realtime but not much else
<zequence> firewire devices need audio group atm
<zequence> Maybe that could be changed to "multimedia"
<len-1304> I am still not understanding what the problem with the audio group is.
<len-1304> As long as the audio servers are in user space...
<zequence> len-1304: According to Ubuntu, it's bad security policy to have the users in audio group, or something. It feels like it's been hijacked by pulseaudio
<len-1304> any group will be a possible problem for remote logins
<len-1304> Why? what is the security problem?
<zequence> len-1304: Don't ask me
<zequence> :)
<len-1304> Maybe that is the case for the average desktop user where pulse is the only sound server.
<len-1304> but where the user must be able to stop and start sound servers, even if RT was run under some other group, the user would need to be able to control pulse.
<zequence> firewire devices point to audio group, but perhaps they should have their own group, a new one called firewire. and realtime privilege to realtime
<len-1304> The jack-pa bridge should be RT so there would still be a group shared by pa and other audio stuff
<len-1304> Should a strictly video FW device have audio or rt? Or just audio devices?
<len-1304> Doing something blanket for FW devices seems wrong too.
<zequence> Are you maybe mixing things up?
<len-1304> Audio is inherently a low latency or RT process. so really the audio group makes sense
<zequence> AFAIK, applications want realtime, and if the user has the privilege, the apps will get it
<zequence> firewire devices can't be run, unless the user has the athority. Currently, the athority is given through audio group. It could be anything
<len-1304> SO the same is true for a camera too?
<zequence> I have no idea
<zequence> I only know about the specific devices that ffado needs privilege for, and those are listed in the udev rules file
<zequence> You can use firewire devices without rt privilege, but not without being in audio group as the udev rules file grants permission through that group
<zequence> So, the audio group problem is not only limited to realtime
<len-1304> Does PA use RT priv for it's normal operation.
<len-1304> Lets say we have an RT group. Now in order for jack to have access to the device would it still need to be in the audio group?
<len-1304> If not, why does PA need to be in the audio group?
<zequence> Not using the audio group, I dont' think.
<zequence> I have no idea
<len-1304> audio:x:29:pulse,joe why is pulse in the audio group if it doesn't need it?
<zequence> pulse is not in the audio group because of RT anyway
<zequence> What makes you think it doesn't need the group
<len-1304> No, because it is there if jack is installed or not
<len-1304> I am just wondering why.
<len-1304> My thought is that if pulse needs it then how can jackd run without it? (though not in RT)
<zequence> To get rtprio and memlock, you just let /etc/security/limits.d/audio.conf point to another group, and make the user member of it
<len-1304> My thought is that jackd should have to be both a part of the audio group and a part of the RT group
<len-1304> the audio group would give access to the device and the rt access to rt.
<len-1304> So it would still be proper for FW devices/drivers to need audio group.
<zequence> jackd is not a member of any group
<zequence> pulse is member of audio group. The user doens't need to be a member of audio group as long as the other two configs point to other groups
<zequence> such as, for example, realtime and firewire
<zequence> pulse has no interest in firewire devices
<zequence> and to my knowledge, has no need for rt prio either, through the user group, anywayu
<len-1304> jack is a member of whatever the user is.
<len-1304> But, the question is still why does pulse need the audio group?
<zequence> pulse is a user, btw. jack is not.
<len-1304> If the user can access alsa direct without being the the audio group then pulse should not need it either
<zequence> While of course, pulse the app is not the user.
<len-1304> So pulse is in the audio group just in case it runs system wide?
<len-1304> but then if it needs audio group for that then the user should need audio group for a user space pulse server as well.
<zequence> As it is now, pulse is a member of audio group, the user is not. And for some reason, the user should not. This has nothing to do with either jack of firewire configuration
<zequence> So, to fix jack and firewire, one way to do it is add one or two new groups, that the user *is* a member of by default
<len-1304> perhaps pulse does not need to be either.
<zequence> A perfectly good question to ask Ubuntu or pulse devs, I guess
<len-1304> This page: http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/PulseAudio/Documentation/User/PerfectSetup gives some info.
<len-1304> Look for the section "Should users be in the "audio" group?"
<len-1304> We are "group" 2
<len-1304> It says "ast user switching doesn't work properly if users are in the "audio" group." 
<len-1304> s/ast/fast
<len-1304> Reading that, I would say the user running jackd(bus) should be in the audio group if they are running real time or not.
<len-1304> The user running jack would not want another user to suddenly have access to the sound device anyway.
<len-1304> The user with audio group overrides a user without. That sounds like a good feature in a pro audio system to me.
<len-1304> zequence, having a user in the audio group breaks the expected operation that two sessions can be open and when one is made active the audio access dynamically follows.
<len-1304> So if I have a session for user len open and am streaming audio to pulse from a web browser, and then select switch user and login joe as well, now the joe session is being controlled by the KB/mouse then joe has access to the audio IF. If I switch back to the len session audio should follow me there.
<len-1304> I don't know if any of this makes sense. But using a user in the audio group seems to me to break something we want to avoid anyway.
<len-1304> My opinion is that having the pro audio user in the audio group is correct even if there is another group for RT.
<zequence> len-1304: All of that only affects pulseaudio, since whatever group you use with jack, that would be user specific
<zequence> What you are saying is basically, jack users are out of luck, and need to administer groups manually
<zequence> My goal is to make pro audio possible without additional configs on any Debian derived distro
<zequence> That has been my goal all along. 
<zequence> or, to clarify, no group is ever used with jack. jack wants to use rtprio and memlock, and those are administered through a group of any choice
<zequence> the audio group is in no way related to getting jack to work
<zequence> other than currently, the package adds a file which points to audio group. 
<madeinkobaia> Be back tomorrow, see u all :)
<em_> Im looking for insights on thermal problems
<em_> hello???
<em_> ping zequence
<em_> !ping zequence
<em_> everybody seems to be asleep...
<zequence> em_: What kind of problems are you having?
<zequence> 4 min is a short time to expect anyone to answer ;)
<zequence> Might take hours, or sometimes days depending on who is available
<em_> Hi, Wow, thanks...
<em_> I seldom use irc, but when I have it's usually very active
<zequence> em_: And, this is not really a support channel
<zequence> We have #ubuntustudio for that
<em_> I want to do some testing and file some bug reports
<em_> but I want to make sure that I am doing it properly so that the effort is not wasted
<zequence> Ok, that would belong on this channel :)
<zequence> So, what kind of bug are you having?
<em_> okay greta
<em_> great
<em_> two bugs, both are specific to the hardware
<em_> one bug is overheating = 81C
<em_> other bug is audio input -- totally flakey
<em_> I would expect that these are know issues, but not sure how to search for them
<zequence> What is overheating?
<em_> PSensors reports cpu and video are both very hot.  video seems to run about 2 degress hotter so I suspect it may be source of problem
<em_> its a radion (sp) video,  I have tried both the generic and propriatery drivers
<em_> under load this laptop gets as high as 85 degress celsis yow!
<zequence> I've seen overheating problems with AMD, but only with free drivers. Are you sure this is an OS problem? I recently blew out some dust from my laptop fan, and dramatically decreased the temp. I mean, really much, and I didn't see the dust with my eyes
<zequence> That is, I've only seen problems with AMD graphic cards
<em_> yes, defintely os problem...  the newer the os the hotter it runs
<zequence> I would begin by filing a bug against the kernel, and then the AMD driver. Don't think there's a point in filing a bug towards the proprietary driver at launchpad
<zequence> You could mention in the bug reports that there are two of them, and link to each other in the comments later
<em_> on 10.10 average temp is 55C (generic),  on 12.04 average temp is 65C (low-latency),  on 12.10 avg temp is about 70C  on 13.04 avg temp is 80C  these are at idle
<zequence> How about when you are doing something actively. Is the difference still as large?
<zequence> em_: Just for the sake of minimizing possibilities, if this is a laptop, I would open up the back, and then blow through the fan hard a few times. If you see dust, it will make a difference
<em_> in active use on 13.04 it peaks at about 86C   temps that high make me nervous.  case gets very hot to the touch
<zequence> It's important to open the back, or the dust will fly around all over inside
<zequence> em_: As for the audio input. Is this only on pulseaudio, or do you have problems with jack too?
<em_> on 10.10  fan hardly even comes on.  on 12.04 fan runs quietly.  on 13.04 fan is screaming banshee.  this is all on the same laptop, all within 5 minutes of each other..  e.g.  I have all of these oses currently installed multi-boot
<em_> I dont beleive it is a fan/dust problem.   actually I have opened the case and fan is inaccessible without major disassembly...  leary of going that far.  inside seems pretty clean anyway
<zequence> Seems clean is not the same as clean. So, if it is a laptop, I would really encourage you to blow the fan clean, just for the sake of science
<em_> I believe it affects both similarly.  again, it is very os specific.  but!  I installed same os version on different brand laptop and both of these problems do not exist.  these problems are specific to this particualr laptop.  HP dv7-4270us
<em_> logic says that if 10.10 does not even turn on the fan, and 13.04 the fan is maxed out, and this is identical machine with identical amount of dust...  then the dust is not the primary factor
<zequence> It is machine specific, absolutely. The cause for the diff in release is unkown. One could be a heavier use of system resources on newer release, which would case a higher temp
<zequence> One could be a kernel bug
<zequence> To exclude the first, blow out the fan
<zequence> Once excluded, file a bug against the kernel
<em_> ok, thanks, where do I go to file a kernal bug?  launchpad or elsewhere?
<zequence> There's a command line tool for that
<zequence> I'm not on Ubuntu right now, but I belive it's ubuntu-bug or ubuntubug
<zequence> So: ubuntu-bug <yourkernel>
<zequence> The kernel would either be linux-generic, or linux-lowlatency
<zequence> I prefer you file it against linux-generic, if the symptom is the same on both
<em_> oh,  okay, thanks...   thats very helpful
<zequence> linux-lowlatency is principally the same as -generic
<zequence> em_: About the audio input problem, do you only use pulseaudio with it?
<zequence> It would be helpful to know if the problem is only with pulseaudio or not
<zequence> If yes, then you would do: ubuntu-bug pulseaudio
<zequence> I may be remembering the name of the tool wrong
<zequence> No, it's "ubuntu-bug" allright
<em_> I think the problem is the same with jack too, but I seldom use jack, I can retest it though and see
<zequence> em_: If it's the same with jack, the problem is most likely with alsa
<zequence> I dont' know what your problem is though
<em_> ok, that makes sense
<em_> I think its to do with this specific audio chip, it the intel HD audo
<em_> alright, thank you very much.  I think that info will get me started
<em_> any further thoughts?
<zequence> em_: When you make a report, just look through carefully the alternatives you get whether a bug already has been reported. Also, doing a couple of web searches on your model, audio chip, Ubuntu release, kernel version, words like bug, overheating, etc, might show some results
<zequence> Searching on the symptoms is of course a good idea
<em_> for testing, does it matter which version of the beta I'm using...  I see they have dailies as well as the initial release.  should I download the daily for doing the testing or is the one I already downloaded good enough?
<zequence> em_: Right now, the kind of testing we prefer is doing release upgrades from Quantal to Raring. Beta1 is preferred
<zequence> But, if you just want to try it out, and happen to stumble on a bug, it would be great if you reported it, or let us know about it
<zequence> in either case, beta1 is preferred
<em_> well I've been trying the beta, and the audio works butter but still not usable, whereas the temp is much higher.  so I figured since it is current focus, that filing bugs against it would be more effective than filling against older versions.
<zequence> sure
<em_> thank you very much I think you have answered all my questions about how to file the bugs.
<em_> any final thoughts or shall we call it a day?
<zequence> em_: Not really. Don't be a stranger here if you want to continue contributing though. We'll try to help in any way we can
<em_> great, THANKS,  happy whatever day it is for you :-)   
<zequence> Ah, yeah. It's Easter :). Easter witches day here in Sweden actually
<em_> Sweden.... COOL!!!   I love the internet eveybody connected....   Im in Seattle
<em_> well, it's been great chatting with you
<em_> witches???  you have easter witches???  Ive never heard of such a thing
<em_> over hear it's mostly a jesus thing...  except that many people realise it actually has nothing to do with him.   it's a celebration of the end of winter and the rebirth of life.  thats why it is celebrated with eggs.
<em_> <<over here
<zequence> em_: Churches have their Easter too, but we have a weird tradition with Easter witches, who fly on brooms
<zequence> Kids like to dress up like 'em
<em_> hmmm,  that sounds like our halloween which is in october
<zequence> Easter is older than any know religions probably, yes
<zequence> We have halloween too, but dressing up is a tradition we've imported from US, I think
<zequence> Not that common with Easter witches anymore though
<em_> yes, same with christmas which is really an ancient celebration of the solsctice  (sun's shortest day)
<zequence> We still call it Jul, which in English is Jule
<zequence> Or Yule, perhaps
<zequence> And in Finland, the month of December is called Yule Month, as it was in other nordic countires too in the past
<zequence> So, not as Christianized, as the church would have wanted it to be ;)
<em_> yes, Yule is a frequently heard name for the christmas season.  I've never inquired about its origin
<zequence> It's an old Germanic name
<zequence> From Viking times probably
<em_> hmmm  that is very interesting.
<zequence> Midsummer is probablyu the least Christianized day. Especially here in Sweden
<zequence> So, some traditions have survived
<zequence> For better or worse
<em_> the christian church has lost it's strangle hold on culture, but still has a very strong influence...  just not any longer dominant...
<zequence> Ironically, I feel US has is more Christianized than other Lutheran dominant countries
<zequence> Just hearing politicians talk about God is something that would never happen here
<em_> they call it the "Age of Reason"  it's when people started thinking beyond the dogma.  It actually started in renasiance europe  as you probably already know.
<em_> well, there are right now some trends that are very disturbing
<em_> but basically a polotician cant get elected if they dont at least pay lip service to christian religion
<zequence> That is very, very weird
<zequence> If a politician talks about religion here, they won't get taken seriously
<em_> refreshing
<em_> I think the younger generations are pretty much breaking away from it
<zequence> Actually, I think in US there was a big step back with Reagan
<em_> but the brain is not such a logical thing...  people are more ruled by emotion and fear than by clear thought
<zequence> I think he introduced a lot of the garbage that exists now, that politicians didn't need to worry about before him
<zequence> So, in some ways, it's actually a modern thing
<zequence> And it comes mostly out of the right wing
<em_> kenedy was very controversial for being a catholic...  but my impression is that he kept religion very much out of polotics, so yes reagon was a throw back to "conservative values"
 * micahg would comment in an -offtopic channel :)
<em_> @micahg  are you saying we should take this somewhere else??   sorry if we abused the channel... nobody else was here...
<em_> guess we got carried away
<zequence> He's quite right. Some people like to read through history, etc. I need to grab some food anyway
<micahg> well, not necessarily, just saying I won't add my 2 cents in a logged channel :)
<micahg> (though, yes, I think it really belongs in OT, but zequence is a main contributor, so I won't tell him what to do in the -dev channel :))
<zequence> We don't have a off topic channel ourselves, but there is #xubuntu-offtopic that may work
<micahg> zequence: if you feel the need, you can ask for #ubuntustudio-offtopic to be created in #ubuntu-irc or something like that)
<micahg> though what's OT is relative, -motu can get very OT sometimes
<em_> okay, well it's been wonderful, chatting.   
<em_> I guess I will go file some bugs.   
#ubuntustudio-devel 2014-03-24
<stochastic> zequence_, are there any bug #'s or blueprints I should start to read first?
<OvenWerk1> I don't think the 14.10 blue prints are up yet, but one of the things done was to separate trhe blueprints into cycle and long term.
<OvenWerk1> Let me see if I can find them, I have been pretty inactive this cycle
<OvenWerk1> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/Blueprints gives an overview
<zequence_> stochastic: check out the wiki wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio
<zequence_> stochastic: There's a blueprints page there
<zequence_> Ah, right, OvenWerk1 already linked it
<stochastic> zequence_, how is the controls update coming?
<zequence_> stochastic: I've been rewriting it from scratch
<stochastic> That's what I read.
<zequence_> it's not finished yet. Haven't had the time
<stochastic> I know the old version really wasn't doing much anymore.
<zequence_> no. we need to SRU it. Should have been done a long time ago
<stochastic> fair enough, we all get busy
<zequence_> stochastic: have you had any experience with rt-kit?
<stochastic> minimal
<zequence_> I'm thinking if we could get jack working with that, it would probably be one of the better alternatives
<zequence_> what other alternatives are there, that would be good for the future
 * stochastic is just getting back into kernel stuff.
<stochastic> Last time I loaded Ubuntu Studio it shipped a GNOME interface
<stochastic> I'll take a look through where Controls is and what the current kernel you're shipping with is, and I'll let you know in a bit
<zequence> stochastic: Well, if you'd like something to do, solving how to get rt privilege by just installing jackd on any Debian derived system would be a nice place to start
<zequence> in any case, we can't use audio group
<stochastic> no?  that's how we used to get it done
<zequence> if nothing els, we need to create a new one
<stochastic> security reasons?
<zequence> audio group is used for other things too
<zequence> yeah
<stochastic> fair enough
<zequence> Debian has users in audio group by default, but not Ubuntu
<zequence> Ubuntu Studio does, for the first user
<stochastic> So the trigger to allow RT privilege will be the installation of jackd on the system?  for every user?
<stochastic> *in an ideal setup?
<zequence> if we use groups, the ideal would be for the user to already be apart of the group (like, a group called "jack")
<zequence> but, I suppose with rt-kit, one could solve that in another way
<zequence> also, if we use groups, we should push for a change in both Debian and Ubuntu - which from what I hear, may be difficult, since they prefer not to introduce new groups. 
<zequence> but, still, not impossible
<zequence> going to work - bbl
<stochastic> cya
<zequence> stochastic: We haven't really been using the blueprints this cycle so much, but they should contain some ideas
<zequence> the problem is really that we have too few developers for the blueprints to be much use
<stochastic> zequence, I'm likely not going to be much use for implementing anything this cycle but I'll certainly help toward rt-kit implementation for next cycle if that's okay.  I'm off to bed for the night (Vancouver timezone).
<zequence> stochastic: This cycle is all but done, so no problem
<stochastic> Yeah FF was long ago now.
<zequence> considering it's and LTS, it's a shame we haven't done more, but there's always a next one
<zequence> stochastic: gn, and great to have you back (all though I wasn't around back then)
<zequence> stochastic: also, if you happen to any jack coding, pulseaudio-module-jack might be in a need of a little optimizing. The main issue I think is just that it eats a lot of CPU.
<zequence> not as much now, as it's defaulting to two channels only
<zequence> ubuntustudio-live is in the repos. Going to switch to it now
<OvenWerk1> zequence: there is as of now no kernel in repos for 14.04
<OvenWerk1> ISO build may take a while
<zequence> OvenWerk1: What do you mean, no kernel?
<zequence> OvenWerk1: Next ISO should build anytime now
<cub> so beta2 is on the 27th. Is the iso prepared a few days before so we test it before the beta2 release?
<zequence> cub: Testing of the Beta 2 should start anytime now. Today is Beta 2 freeze (or should have been)
<zequence> new ISOs are out http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntustudio/dvd/current/
<zequence> I'll give it a try tomorrow
<zequence> We should have the new slides, but not the background
#ubuntustudio-devel 2014-03-25
<cub> I'm downloading beta2 i386 and will start testing during the day.
<cub-testing> I don't use live sessions often so I'm not sure if this is a bug or normal behaviour? When I start beta2 in live session I only get US keyboard layout and a one hour time difference.
<cub-testing> I didn't have wifi when booting in case it needs that to check where I am_
<cub-testing> ?
<cub-testing> So, I don't know whether to file a bug or check it as normal.
<cub-testing> going for lunch in the mean time
<cub-testing> Hmm a thought, the test case states When ubiquity starts select your language in the left column. That never happened when I booted.
<cub-testing> maybe that's because I used unetbootin to create the usb
<zequence> cub-testing: could be the test is old. Could also be we're lacking something others have
<zequence> We should check with Xubuntu
<cub-testing> I was hoping elfy might know. 
<zequence> cub-testing: There's one bug in the plugin - don't deselect any of the two transitional metas: ubuntustudio-recording, or ubuntustudio-generation, or the installer will crash
<elfy> what's that
<zequence> We should blacklist them. I'm going to try to do that before the Beta release
<cub-testing> if live session usually starts with us keyboard by default_
<elfy> we've got all sorts going on with keyboards here bug 1284635
<ubottu> bug 1284635 in ibus (Ubuntu) "Keyboard layout changes after login" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1284635
<elfy> you're affected by that
<elfy> I'm also seeing bug 1201762
<ubottu> bug 1201762 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Install from live session: Failed detection of keyboard layout" [Undecided,Expired] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1201762
<elfy> if that's any help :)
<elfy> and good morning cub-testing zequence :)
<cub-testing> i was looking at 1201762 but it's a bit old
<cub-testing> hehe good morning elfy 
<elfy> I know - couldn't decide whether to do a new one or just me too that
<elfy> cub-testing: if you want to do a new one - let me know the number and I'll amend my result
<cub-testing> I press me too on 1284635, but that is about after doing an installation. 
<elfy> yep
<cub-testing> i just booted the live session
<cub-testing> and perhaps that's normal then?
<elfy> I've never ever actually had a livesession recognise the keyboard layout as UK though
<cub-testing> not UK, English US
<elfy> yes 
<cub-testing> but the time is set for UK time. 
<elfy> boots to en_us - then ubiquity sets TZ correctly, but doesn't see UK layout
<cub-testing> I will file a bug then
<elfy> ok
<cub-testing> but first food. 
<elfy> I'm painting a bedroom ... 
<cub-testing> lucky you haha
<elfy> not sure which is best - testing or watching paint dry :D
<zequence> I fixed the plugin. No more transtional metas in it
<cub-testing> elfy, I created #1297234
<elfy> bug 1297234
<ubottu> bug 1297234 in console-setup (Ubuntu) "Live session set wrong keyboard layout and time zone" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1297234
<cub-testing> console-setup.. I tried to get it to keyboard-configuration as the other but it seems it decided against me
<elfy> changed it to ubiquity :)
<cub-testing> I was wondering about that, but since i was already logged in so to speak i wasn't sure
<elfy> oh - did you do this from the installed studio?
<cub-testing> no running from usb stick, live session
<cub-testing> is that part of ubiquity?
<zequence> since the user logs in automatically, the keyboard layout is always default (US)
<elfy> cub-testing: ok cool - yea, as far as I know should be ubiquity
<zequence> ubiquity is the installer itself (the window that opens, when you select Install Ubuntu Studio )
<zequence> the live session is something else
<elfy> zequence: yes agreed - but once install is started it should recognide keyboard - or at least guess that a keyboard should be close to tz
<zequence> never happened to me. I always select it manually
<zequence> during the installation
<elfy> zequence: from the iso tracker "... during the installation itself: ubuntu-bug ubiquity"
<elfy> zequence: I've not had it not set keyboard to UK 
<zequence> I think cub-testing is talking about just the live session itself
<cub-testing> but zequence I have not started any installation yet, so no question about where i am or keyboard
<cub-testing> exactly
<zequence> so, not ubiquity
<elfy> mmm - ok - so I'm reading you wrong - but I am seeing this as an issue here during install
<cub-testing> i made a usb, booted, chose Try ubuntu
<cub-testing> and here I am
<elfy> ok
<elfy> I did the same and have installed 5 times - each time it does not recognise the keyboard
<elfy> cub-testing: I've changed it back to console-setup - I'll do a bug myself then
<elfy> cub-testing: what you're seeing is normal afaik - as zequence says
<cub-testing> ok
<cub-testing> that's why I asked before, I never use live session otherwise
<cub-testing> so I wasn't what was normal and not
<elfy> :) I was getting confused with how I was reading it and what I've been seeing today
<OvenWerk1> zequence: I was trying to install linux-lowlatency from synaptic, it said (at the time) the -18 was the latest, but when I tried to download it failed with file not there. Then I downloaded an ISO and it had -19 so it must have been a transient fail.
 * OvenWerk1 is having wierd problems all over
<OvenWerk1> I had a fresh install, did upgrade which included new kernel, Had tons of kernel oops faults on the new kernel... and even a testing kernel... the old kernel was ok. did a chkdisk and the problem went away :P
<zequence> OvenWerk1: So, you don't get kernel oops at all now?
<OvenWerk1> zequence: Its gone, I ran the same problem kernel for over an hour of hard use with not one problem.
<zequence> OvenWerk1: Good to hear.
<OvenWerk1> It seems to have been a write problem with an external USB drive I have been using to test the images with.
<OvenWerk1> (disk drive not memory stick)
<OvenWerk1> I am just printing the latest ISO to stick so I can test it later today.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2014-03-26
<zequence> New ISO out today
<zequence> ..with a fix for the installer, and updated metas
<OvenWerk1> zequence: downloading now.
<zequence> I've tried zsyncing a bunch of times, but it fails
<zequence> OvenWerk1: so, a few more items to sort in the menu. Ruis three apps, and a couple of other things
<zequence> Damn. The installer crashed using our plugin..
<zequence> ..er, maybe not. 
<zequence> Yeah. It crashed for me, when I deselect stuff. Didn't do that before, unless I touched the two metas I've now removed as options.
<zequence> Going slowly seems to work
<zequence> Another bug: not everything gets deselected - even if deselecting all metas
<zequence> Sometimes, almost nothing gets deselected  out of the recommends
<zequence> Seems like one may have to add some sort of lock, so that you can't toggle anything until the last process was finished, or something
<zequence> I have no way to debug at the moment. Need to add debug stuff into the plugin.
<zequence> deselecting ubuntustudio-font-meta has made it crash for me. We might not even need to have that as a possible selection, I think
<zequence> enough with the big five. Thinking we should also remove the option to not install -desktop
<zequence> I think metas that have no recommends (which means, they have no children in the treeview), is making the installer crash
<zequence> Glad if that is the case, since it's an easy fix
<zequence> Yep. seems to be. Going to fix it later. We better rebuild again.. :P
<OvenWerk1> just printed to usb stick... guess I need to download again.
<zequence> OvenWerk1: To complete the test cases, you'll need to use the latest ISO, but if you want to just try it out, just remember not to deselect ubuntustudio-font-meta
<OvenWerk1> zequence: when will the new ISO be out? (what channel to watch)
<zequence> OvenWerk1: There should be a bot notice in #ubuntu-release
<OvenWerk1> ok
<zequence> Have alerts for "Ubuntu Studio", and "ubuntustudio", and you should catch it
<OvenWerk1> I thought that was where I went (in an empty room) but realize I was on the wrong server :P
<zequence> hehe
<zequence> once there's nothing more to do for the release, I'll have a go at porting the plugin to our installer
<zequence> I mean, ubuntustudio-installer
<zequence> There's a lot we could do to improve it
<zequence> Also, for the next cycle, I think we should look at introducing a netinstall image. A smaller one, that lets the user install only what they want.
<zequence> ubuntustudio-installer could be added to Software Center, and improved with features, so that you only need that to make any ubuntu flavor multimedia production capable. Make it visible in the main stream world, so to speak
<zequence> I think it's a great solution - you get all in one. No need to have separate items for each meta in Software Center (which we don't have yet anyway)
<OvenWerk1> re ubuntustudio-installer... look at the new one first, it is already a big step forward. But if you have the code sitting there, that may be a good way to go too.
<zequence> Yeah, I should look at it first, absolutely.
<OvenWerk1> SWC will show our metas if you search for them...
<zequence> And, I also think that even if we use the plugin, we should improve it in both the plugin form, as well as the -installer form
<zequence> Oh? didn't know that
<zequence> Lot's of stuff that doesn't show up there
<OvenWerk1> I would like to see the installer end up QT. it seems that is the one took kit everyone uses.
<OvenWerk1> Using gtk in xfce is the best way for sure.
<zequence> The less work, the better - and whichever we use, both are supported in all platforms
<OvenWerk1> kde maybe not.
<zequence> sure it is
<OvenWerk1> The fact is of course once yu install ardour gtk is there
<OvenWerk1> Most of our SW uses gtk so loading the libs is not a big deal.
<zequence> It's also possible to have two versions of it - ubuntustudio-gtk and ubuntustudio-qt
<zequence> ..well, you know what I mean :)
<OvenWerk1> ya, ubiquity actually ships one version and chooses the libs based on the system it finds itself running on.
<zequence> Installing is taking forever. Just making sure we don't actually end up installing the metas anyway. Last time it seemed to work ok, but one better check to make sure
<OvenWerk1> It may install then remove.
<OvenWerk1> With regards to removing metapackages or parts there of... Is there any check to make sure a package included in a meta is not still a depenancy of another package?
<OvenWerk1> For example photography and graphics both use gimp, audio and video both have audacity
<OvenWerk1> Jack should not be removed if something jack dependant is left etc.
<zequence> OvenWerk1: Currently, if you deselect a meta that has recommends in it which also another meta has recommends for, those individual packages are not deselected
<zequence> As far as depends go, don't think we can change that. Those should always be installed
<zequence> Not sure if depends are automatically selected when the package that depends on them is selected
<zequence> If not, they should be installed anyway
<zequence> A lot of logic in how that should work
<zequence> May take a while to get it right
<zequence> actually, synaptic, now that one comes to think of it, has a nice solution for that
<zequence> OvenWerk1: Seems like the plugin got in before the scheduled rebuild, so next one should be good to test.
<OvenWerk1> server just went... we should be soon.
<zequence> OvenWerk1: You're right. The packages are first copied over, all of them, and afterwards the deselected stuff is removed
<zequence> That should be changed
<OvenWerk1> There is a step where it tries to calculate what not to copy, I am not sure if that applies or not.
<zequence> not sure what is possible to do from the plugin. We still want all of the packages to be installed onto the live DVD.
<OvenWerk1> However, even if a package is not copied over, it's remove/purge script gets runs to cleanup any extra stuff
<zequence> Perhaps it has something to do with that - ubiquity, and other things are removed also
<OvenWerk1> There go our ISO builds
<OvenWerk1> There zsync is up too
<OvenWerk1> Ok, test time...
<len-live> interesting, ubiquity installs some packages before even selecting the drive to install on.
<len-live> It doesn't seem to be taking a really long time...
<len-live> I elected to only install audio and some graphics
<len-live> It seems to build the nvidia module for the kernel as part of the install.
<len-live> That being new to me with my new video card
<len-live> We seem to rebuild grub a lot.
<len-live> Why do we download chromium plugins?
<len-live> zequence, it does not look like ALL of our meta packages get removed. They may not all get copied over.
<len-live> zequence, the only thing I see is that the background needs changing. If we are using the one in the slide show, it looks good.
<len-live> off to reboot
<OvenWerk1> zequence: the last few packages added to the audio meta show up under media playback.
<zequence> OvenWerk1: Yeah. I did my test in Virtualbox, and it was really slow. 
<fibz_> i was just about to mention that OvenWerk1 
<zequence> The artwork is yet to be uploaded. More than a week old in the sponsor queue. It has seen a lot of additions lately. I'm sure they will start working on those shortly after Beta 2
<zequence> The queue has seen additions, I mean
<OvenWerk1> The problem with the icons has something to do with any desktop files that use the icon name with an extension. xfce bug, it is being worked on.
<OvenWerk1> zequence: -menu has not been uploaded yet either. Are we expecting those after the beta?
<zequence> OvenWerk1: Would be good if we fix the menu before it gets uploaded, so we don't need to ask for that again
<zequence> We can always claim it's a bug, when something is not the way it's supposed to be
<zequence> Those packages are trivial too, since they don't do much to change Ubuntu as a whole, so getting those through is much less restrictive than a lot of other stuff
<zequence> Time to check out for today. I'll make sure all ISOs are tested within 12h or so.
<OvenWerk1> 32 bit is done.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2014-03-27
<OvenWerk1> micahg: re: lp:ubuntustudio-menu When I fixed the changelog to add the lp: number I was not able to add the --fixes lp: * to it.
<OvenWerk1> micahg: do I have to do an empty commit.
<OvenWerk1> I tried it anyway...
<OvenWerk1> zequence: I fixed bug #1298089 But I am not sure launchpad likes me anymore.
<ubottu> bug 1298089 in ubuntustudio-menu (Ubuntu) "[UIFe] newly added application items in wrong menu" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1298089
<OvenWerk1> It has said updating branch for 30min now.
<OvenWerk1> Ga! Off to bed.....
<zequence> Beta 2 is published
<zequence> I think we should see some progress in our last uploades within a few days. 
<zequence> Time to start thinking about the next 6 months, and the next 2 years
<OvenWerk1> zequence: I like what I see in the meta chooser in ubiquity.
<OvenWerk1> If we can make that standalone and get it to accept extra packages from the command line, it could replace ubuntustudio-installer.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2014-03-28
<OvenWerk1> micahg: I figgured it out, no worries. (if the query above hasn't scrolled off the top by the time you read this)
<zequence> Not sure yet what this is about, but there are a bunch of packages that aren't building in our package set http://people.ubuntuwire.org/~wgrant/rebuild-ftbfs-test/test-rebuild-20140307-trusty.html#ubuntustudio
<zequence> I haven't had the time to look into "upstream". But, I suppose I might have some time in coming weeks
<zequence> OvenWerk1: Yes. It's a nice thing to have in the installer. I have some ideas floating on how to improve that further on, for both the plugin, as well as the installer
<zequence> It's not a bad idea to have the same format for both, as both are in their own way Ubuntu Studio installers
<OvenWerk1> zequence: Just in our PPA? Maybe delete the latest one that has built.
<zequence> OvenWerk1: No, those are, I think, packages trying to build in Ubuntu
<zequence> Becoming project lead didn't come with a handbook, and there's no docs for flavor devs particularly, so there are loads of stuff I'm not aware of
<zequence> We haven't done any package maintenance at all so far - in our package set (which is a standard that is being used between flavors - we have a set of packages in universe in a Ubuntu Studio package set)
<zequence> ..not counting our own sources of course
<zequence> so far, I think all we've done inside the Ubuntu Studio team is the two SRU bugs I did. There is a guy in the mail list, who came along and did some work too
#ubuntustudio-devel 2014-03-29
<OvenWerk1> zequence: re bug #1294056 This is either a unity bug... or a toolkit incompatability as this systray icon works fine in xfce.
<ubottu> bug 1294056 in qjackctl (Ubuntu) "Qjackctl systray icon shows no menu" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1294056
<OvenWerk1> I was wondering if you still run gnome shell on one of your machines and if you also have this problem.
<OvenWerk1> zequence: Re: the upload fail for -menu in our daily builds... my fault. I messed up and had to uncommit about 3 times to correct. As a result the revno of the latest one is less than what was lat auto built. It should auto build next time ok. (I hope)
#ubuntustudio-devel 2014-03-30
<zequence> OvenWerk1: Works fine in gnome. I'll try it in Unity once I get the chance
<zequence> (I haven't tried Gnome in 14.04, though, so I shouldn't say anything yet)
<zequence> stochastic: Would you be interested in re-introducing linux-rt into Ubuntu? Not to replace linux-lowlatency, however. As an addition.
<zequence> I've been planning on doing that, but lack of time, and other priorities have made me not even begin to work on that
<stochastic> zequence, what would the motivation for doing that be?
<zequence> stochastic: -rt performs better. But, it's more work maintaining it, of course
<zequence> -lowlatency is alright, and best of all, it's mostly maintained by Canonical (just recently there was a bug that only affected threadirqs enabled kernels, so those do happen)
<zequence> in the case of the bug, we had to disable threadirqs during development, until the bug was fixed in vanilla, and found its way to Ubuntu
<zequence> ..but -lowlatency is not optimal in all situations
<zequence> not a top priority in any way, but it would be nice to also have a -rt to choose from
<stochastic> well given that there's not many UbuntuStudio devs currently, I think maintaining a new kernel flavour would be a tall task
<stochastic> particularly if it's just for slight improvement in some situations
<zequence> well, that all depends on the individual interestes among the developers
<stochastic> I'll consider it though.
<zequence> only if you'd like to do it
<zequence> the biggest issue with have, I think, is that we don't have a testing routine in place at all
<zequence> we import packages directly from Debian, but sometimes they are bugyy
<zequence> ..and if they are fixed, the fix comes later than it needed to
<zequence> and, rt privilege, if considering the whole of Ubuntu, not just Ubuntu Studio
<zequence> stochastic: are you well acquainted with setting up a system for low latency? And, do you have good experience in the effects of certain configs?
<zequence> stochastic: If you do, it would be nice if you had a look at what we have, or lack.
<stochastic> well acquainted, not quite; familiar, yes.
<zequence> stochastic: Well, don't hesitate to ask about anything. Between me and OvenWerk1, we know pretty much everything that makes up Ubuntu Studio
<zequence> ..and no doubt, we are missing obvious possible improvements
<zequence> I mean, we could be
<zequence> just today, I had a discussion with some people at #ardour about a2jmidid. jack1 autoruns it. jack2 doesn't
<zequence> that kind of stuff. midi tweaking is something I have been involved in very little
<zequence> I'll start working on next cycle planning this week, so that we can start defining features for next release (trusty+1)
#ubuntustudio-devel 2015-03-23
<OvenWerks> zequence: ardour3 -3.5.403 should be SRU to the LTS as bug fix.
<OvenWerks> zequence: I am guessing we are past the point of adding SW for V, For W I will add x42-plugins. It includes a group of midi filtering plugins That are quite useful and make up for at least one of Ardour's bugs. (Issue 5754)
#ubuntustudio-devel 2015-03-25
<zequence> OvenWerks: If we do add something to seeds, we will need to update the meta package. But, if it's not critical I guess we might just wait until W, since we're not releasing a LTS.
<zequence> OvenWerks: I'll have a look at doing an SRU on ardour, and if someone else is already on it, or not. You are welcome to do so too, of course.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2015-03-26
<zequence> Beta testing today, anyone? I'll be testing no later than lunch myself.
<zequence> Did very quick testing, and found that reboot was impossible after install, like was a general case at least with Xubuntu as well.
<zequence> Will mark ready a bit later, if no one else begins testing.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2015-03-27
<zequence> I'll be offline for a few hours, but will be back as usual after that.
<DalekSec> OK.
<zequence> It was clearly a mistake putting the email address contact@ubuntustudio.org on the sidebar for our ubuntustudio.org homepage.
<zequence> ..considering the amount of spam I'm getting.
<zequence> Good filtering on my email service, but still, I always go through the spam folder, and it just keeps growing
<zequence> The email address itself is not bad to have. I get a few emails per month, which are not spam, and it can be anything from someone trying to do a bug report to someone asking about licensing.
<zequence> But, I suppose it should not be readable by bots as easily as it is now
<micahg> zequence: html encode it?
<zequence> micahg: You mean make it a link?
<micahg> no, use html entities instead of characters
<zequence> mailto: ?
<micahg> http://www.ascii.cl/htmlcodes.htm
<micahg> there are sites that'll convert email addresses to their HTML equivalents
<zequence> micahg: Ah, great. Thanks. I'll look into that.
<pl1x> hello!
#ubuntustudio-devel 2015-03-28
<zequence> pl1x: Hi
#ubuntustudio-devel 2016-03-28
<sakrecoer> /window/window 2
<sakrecoer> also, good morning!
<OvenWerks> Good evening...
<sakrecoer> :) 
<michael__> hi
<Guest26605> are there any future plans to make ubuntu-studio public for the rpi 3?
<zequence> Guest26605: No plans, but since Ubuntu Studio shares package repos with all other official Ubuntu flavors, you can turn Ubuntu vanilla into Ubuntu Studio
<Guest26605> zequence, the problem is the arm64, since now i can't find a real 64bit-os for the rpi 3, all os are build on 32 bit
<zequence> Guest26605: From what I could find by googling quickly was that there's a version of Ubuntu Mate for rpi3. https://ubuntu-mate.org/blog/ubuntu-mate-for-raspberry-pi-3/
<zequence> Not sure about the arm64 architecture as far as the whole archive of packages go
<knome> they've built xubuntu images within their project too: https://ubuntu-pi-flavour-maker.org/ (not supported by the xubuntu community though)
<madeinkobaia> Hi all :P
<knome> hello
<zequence> madeinkobaia: Hello. If you want to chat, we are now using an offtopic channel. Check it out. #ubuntustudio-offtopic
<zequence> (for anything non-devel stuff, I mean)
<madeinkobaia> Ok Kaj
<knome> zequence, is the offtopic channel silly at all? :P
<zequence> knome: You're welcome to find out :)
<zequence> madeinkobaia: Any chance you have wallpaper suggestions for 16.04?
<madeinkobaia> zequence: You mean for make the default wallpaper or to choose one from the wallpaper contest ?
<zequence> madeinkobaia: A new default wallpaper. I have one suggestion myself, which I need to work some more on, but it is really only because no one else has done anything suitable
<zequence> Let me get you the link
<zequence> The contest did not produce anything suitable, I think, even though some are really nice
<madeinkobaia> ok
<zequence> Mine is very basic, but seems to work ok. Two variants. Slight change in coloring. https://cloud.mousike.me/index.php/s/popjJYWyJ9r3WV4
<zequence> https://cloud.mousike.me/index.php/s/G2r6ScuDthTBJmB
<madeinkobaia> zequence: what is limit date for included wallpapers in the 16.04 ?
<zequence> The idea is to use three colors, representing audio (blue), graphics(orange) and video(purple)
<zequence> madeinkobaia: The time has passed, so we are very late. But, I'm thinking within two weeks
<zequence> madeinkobaia: The links point to my own server. It's not a public ssl key, so you will get a warning in your browser, but the key is ok
<knome> final freeze is april 14, you probably want it before that
<zequence> Right. And, the sooner, the better
<knome> actually i think the final freeze is april 11
<zequence> madeinkobaia: If you also have some ideas for unified artwork, now is the time to make something happen on that front
<knome> (the monday fo release week 25)
<zequence> madeinkobaia: Anyway, do what you want with that. Just let me know if you want to work on someting, so that I know that something may be coming from you.
<zequence> My wallpaper is just an idea, so don't overthink that. If you like it, use it. Otherwise, don't
<madeinkobaia> zequence: I can do the default wallpaper. But I will make only one proposition. As we don't have much time. 
<zequence> madeinkobaia: Ok. I will need to see what it is before I can approve it. You have some ideas?
<madeinkobaia> zequence: I would like to make something as a typowork
<zequence> typowork?
<madeinkobaia> zequence: I think it will better than what you show me anyway. A typographic work is something made font characters...http://www.deviantart.com/art/Creativity-72279316
<madeinkobaia> zequence: It's just an idea could be something else too.
<zequence> madeinkobaia: I'm not sure I like that, tbh. Not for a default wallpaper. I would like to see something simpler and if there is symbolism, it should connect with our OS
<zequence> types can have lots of character and such, but why use that on an LTS release? What is the reasoning, other than it looks good?
<zequence> If the text somehow relates to our stuff, then perhaps it makes sense
<zequence> But, I'm thinking it needs to be really subtle. What do you think?
<madeinkobaia> zequence: Was just an idea...let me thinking about that. It will be minimalistic...with flatdesign. 
<knome> i feel wallpapers and posters created using typography are "pop" currently (or at least have been relatively recently), but i don't think it's "timeless" design
<madeinkobaia> Something simple guys. No worries ;-)
<knome> (you don't need to listen to me though, i'm just a bystander and somebody who shouts from another flavor :P)
<zequence> madeinkobaia: Ok. Sounds good. Will be fun to see what you come up with.
<madeinkobaia> Any opinion are welcome !
<madeinkobaia> Ok goodnight everybody. I will be back here or on the list for discussing about that.
<knome> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-art/xubuntu-artwork/xenial/download/head:/xubuntuxenial.png-20160309103718-qqrtvnlq5ciohtke-1/xubuntu-xenial.png
<knome> wallpaper for xubuntu 16.04 ^
<madeinkobaia> knome: Thanks for the link. Could be in that way too. You can check also my last wallpaper I made for Debian here : https://wiki.debian.org/DebianArt/Themes/DotsAndSwing
#ubuntustudio-devel 2016-03-29
<sakrecoer> just notcied my ~/.log/ladish/ladish.log is 149.4 gb on my production machine (14.04) !!! xD
<sakrecoer> no, it is my previous production installs log. when i installed 14.04 i moved everything over to the SSD. where's before i would have my home mounted on the HDD.
<sakrecoer> the current ladish.log has a decent size :D
<zequence> sakrecoer: Sounds like a bug to me. What is in that log?
<zequence> sakrecoer: btw, did you see madeinkobaia was here, accidentally at the same time as me, and he agreed to make a wallpaper for us as a possible default wallpaper
#ubuntustudio-devel 2016-03-30
<zequence> I made a couple of more concept wallpapers based on my idea of the colors, if anyone would like to see. one with the CoF, one without.
<zequence> https://cloud.mousike.me/index.php/s/jxd1yFMaxbG9gvx
<zequence> https://cloud.mousike.me/index.php/s/iTCy1WPBD4xYz5M
<zequence> These are partly inspired by Ubuntu vanilla artwork, I suppose
<cfhowlett> interesting concept
<zequence> cfhowlett: madeinkobaia is working on something, so we will probably be using his wallpaper in the end
<zequence> I do like to prepare for the possibility that that doesn't work out for whatever reason
<cfhowlett> fair enough!
<cfhowlett> as the last new wallpaper came out with 14.04, I am expecting great things!
<zequence> Yeah :)
<zequence> Same two, with improved coloring. Very quick job, still.
<zequence> https://cloud.mousike.me/index.php/s/8GU8kUR08GvKHZJ
<zequence> https://cloud.mousike.me/index.php/s/WMXWUZ8Qo6YUhxl
<zequence> ..meaning, I could do a lot more to improve it.
<sakrecoer_> zequence, it doesn't beat your first proposal...
<sakrecoer_> i see an attempt to match the fold-line thing that seems to be in the air of most flavours. but transparent orange on blue = beige :/
<sakrecoer_> down that line, i'd take your first proposal, and give it some volume by adding shades with those fold-lines, rather than mix the colors like that.
<sakrecoer_> (also, i'm momentarily locked out of my irssi, so i can't read backlog, in case i missed something)
<zequence> sakrecoer_: I said earlier about madeinkobaia dropping by
<zequence> He's working on a wallpaper as well
<sakrecoer_> i saw that! it's great!
<sakrecoer_> read the discussion yesterday, before i got locked out
<zequence> ok
<sakrecoer_> i've sort of made a proposal too, but i'm not ready to show it yet..
<zequence> interesting
<sakrecoer_> it's a tile... so it would work in the scenario OvenWerk1 mentioned: picture over 2 displays
<sakrecoer_> i think i have asked before, but do we have the source files for the icons for the workflows somewhere?
<zequence> Hmm, the icons were worked at by someone originally, who only was with us for a short while. 
<zequence> I made some changes to some of them
<zequence> IT's a bit messy in that regard
<zequence> I would redo them all from scratch rather than improve on them
<sakrecoer_> ok :)
<sakrecoer_> i guess its a bit late for that tho...
<zequence> Not totally
<sakrecoer_> for xenial i mean..
<sakrecoer_> ok! cool!
<sakrecoer_> speaking of that, how are we doing on the website front?
<zequence> Needs to be done within a couple of weeks
<zequence> I haven't done anything to the website yet. Waiting until all other things are out of the way
<cfhowlett> You know, refreshing and perfecting our art might be a worthy 10 year anniversary project
<zequence> Also, considering madeinkobaia made a return, it may be wise to have him do some work on it
<sakrecoer_> ok, i will try to spend as much time as possible on the website this week, unless it is superflous, as in zequence or knome being at it
<zequence> There's no hurry with the website
<sakrecoer_> zequence, yes, that would be great. although he specified in a private email to me that he wouldn't be able to do much until may
<zequence> We don't need to have that done for the release. We can do that later, if we want
<sakrecoer_> cfhowlett, good point!
<zequence> I'm not counting on madeinkobaia having time at all, tbh. But, it would be cool if he had
<sakrecoer_> i'll ping him by email, see if i can stimulate some motivation in the french part of his persona :D
<zequence> sakrecoer_: Any theming changes do need to be done inside two weeks. One would be much preferable.
<zequence> So, consider that one week
<zequence> Final Freeze is as stated by knome most probably on Monday, 10th. To get stuff uploaded, it would be good to have it done in one week, so there is time to poke someone to let the packages through before Final Freeze
<zequence> So, wednesday in one week is a good last day for uploads
<zequence> After that, we can still get bug fixes through
<zequence> Theming is less of a deal than introducing new features. I think we will be forgiven for being so late with that
<zequence> sakrecoer_: The orange could use a boost, yes. I think I used the same orange as before. Could use something a bit more warm
<cfhowlett> and a bit of official ubuntustudio blue somewhere?  yes?
<zequence> cfhowlett: I use it as one of the color areas, as well as a fundamental color behind everything, but with added darkening above the sense of the hue changes a bit
<zequence> ..if we're talking about my wallpaper.
<zequence> We will definitely use it for our website
<zequence> krytarik: Do the changes you feel are appropriate. I'll just review before doing an upload, making sure nothing gets undone that was there for a purpose
<krytarik> Yep.
<zequence> The purple turned into dark blue. Did some smudging of the colors too. I like these pretty much
<zequence> https://cloud.mousike.me/index.php/s/9VykT3nOXg8H70o
<zequence> https://cloud.mousike.me/index.php/s/Sfh0TJoHPY19iR0
<zequence> The orange is a lot more defined
<OvenWerk1> knome: has xubuntu had much in the way of comments about whisker?
<OvenWerk1> knome: (from users)
<zequence> OvenWerk1: FYI krytarik may change some menu stuff now in -default-settings. Syncing some more with Xubuntu
<zequence> Actually, I just realized my screen brightness is really low, so the wallpapers are skewed, but anyway
<OvenWerk1> zequence: your walpapers are fine by me. The bit that I read of what krytarik wants to do makes sense to me too.
<OvenWerk1> zequence: the reason I am asking about whisker, is that everyone I have installed xubuntu for has asked me to remove it. These are generally very casual desktop users.
<sakrecoer_> i am affraid i have to disaprove that wallpaper proposal zequence. By taste, sure, but also in terms of color code. We are not a corporation, sure, but it is inconsistent with our "corporate identitiy"
<sakrecoer_> the first one you did was great tho
<sakrecoer_> that one from several weeks ago
<sakrecoer_> and risking sounding like a partypooping grandpa, OvenWerk1 i guess i agree with your everyone :(
<sakrecoer_> i realy like the input field of the whisker, but it basically reminds me of how cool of a GUI a terminal is
<sakrecoer_> maybe disabling "hover shows item" would make it better... as is now, i find it hard to aim. 
<sakrecoer_> to click an app, with hovering enabled, you need to move the cursor out without leaving the category space, which isn't very large
<zequence> sakrecoer_: I don't know if you notices, but the new wallpaper is based on the same idea as the one before. The purple was accidentally made blue, but this is just work in progress
<sakrecoer_> zequence, yeah i noticed. but in terms of result, its on a hole different level
<sakrecoer_> my irssi is back, i'll jump into it
<zequence> I wouldn't use the wallpaper graphics for a universal color code. It's a bit too "artistic" for that, which is fine I think for a wallpaper anyhow
<zequence> I do think it's important that it is fairly neutral
<zequence> Right now, it's a little too colorful, because of my screen setting
<sakrecoer> sure, however, the green in the left hand space? and the beige in the lowerright? common... maybe if i didn't know how much better you can do
<zequence> The green refers to our publishing subcategory
<sakrecoer> which is gone...
<zequence> No, it's not a main category, but it's still there
<sakrecoer> anyways, if i didn't know you can do better, i would write you the same, but with silk gloves on
<sakrecoer> :D
<zequence> Anyway, some artistic freedom is acceptable, I think
<zequence> Using the pure colors doesn't work. It just looks terrible
<sakrecoer> also, sure, publishing category. but as far as i know, it is not toxic green that we use for that :D
<zequence> Unless putting them in smaller spaces of the full image.
<sakrecoer> zequence: i think your first proposition is the bomb
<sakrecoer> just ad some shading along those axes you put on the second, on top of the first and SMASH
<zequence> Wish I had more skills :P
<zequence> The logic is like this: since the background needs to a bit dark, the colors can be changed so that they still remind you of the color concept, but like in shadows
<zequence> The blue in the middle does need to be purple though
<zequence> And, what you call "beige" is actually quite orange now, towards brown and with blue/greyness in midst of it. It's not beige
<sakrecoer> there is nothing wrong with your skills zequence, on the contrary. i find them remarkable given i don't think you've been to artschool
<sakrecoer> maybe if hadn't done such a great first proposal in the first place...
<zequence> No, I hardly ever do any artwork at all. Hardly know how to use the tools. Very limiting, which is why I'd rather have other people do it, like madeinkobaia.
<zequence> The first one is ok. For some reason though, it makes me think of one of the classic OSX wallpapers.
<zequence> An old one, by now
<zequence> This one is hardly original either. But, timeless and neutral is the best
<sakrecoer> let me combine both of your proposal to show you what i mean
<zequence> I intentionally made the proportions uneven. Doesn't need to be like that, but I do prefer that. A bit trickier with only three colors
<zequence> ..which is why I added some extra, just to fill it out
<zequence> The green is just there to make it a bit more full. ALl these colors make me think of HBQT stuff, which is not so bad, but I'm not really educated on that stuff. Doesn't Libre have a color scheme too?
<sakrecoer> zequence: http://sakrecoer.com/ubuntustudio/zequence_combined.png
<sakrecoer> its a rough scetch, just bent your image in blender
<sakrecoer> *sketch even
<sakrecoer> to illustrate what i meant by fold-lines used on the first proposal
<zequence> sakrecoer: Not bad. First impression is that the angles are off, but the feel of it works for me
<zequence> I'd probably put the lower center more to the left, to make the center feel more centered
<zequence> I mean, the lower point - where the lines meet
<zequence> I'd put that further to the left
<zequence> Or, something similar. I can't really tell
<krytarik> zequence: Ok, so this is what I got so far - maybe check before I push to branch: http://paste.openstack.org/show/8f8EM4njPo9FtDMf5yZ3/
<zequence> krytarik: Good work on the translations, btw :)
<krytarik> Well,... LOL
<zequence> kryten: Looks very good to me. Thanks for sorting that out
<zequence> I would have known how to do the grammar in Finnish, no problem. Just the choice of words. I realize now that the biggest thing to worry about was where to add an "n", pretty much.
<zequence> Anyway, looks fantastic to me
<knome> OvenWerk1, a few, all positive
#ubuntustudio-devel 2016-03-31
<krytarik> If anyone wants to have a look before I push this to the -menu branch: http://paste.openstack.org/show/CJjsBGMD1fUGIZkclYpd/
<sakrecoer> krytarik: in usr/share/applications/ubuntustudio-contribute.desktop
<sakrecoer> line 38
<sakrecoer> It should be "Lire comment rendre Ubuntu Studio meilleur !"
<sakrecoer> or "Lisez comment vous pouvez rendre Ubuntu Studio meilleur !"
<sakrecoer> but the first one is more sympathicaly neutral
<sakrecoer> second option is in imperative, sounds a bit like an order.
<sakrecoer> the current one is a mix a both, it's not wrong perse, but it's ugly.
<sakrecoer> French, is a huge head f*** by nature anyways, i might get contradicted, so if you feel lazy, leave it as is.... HOwever, as it is now, i would take advantage of french vocabulary and put it like this:  "Lire comment aider Ã  ameilleurer Ubuntu Studio"
<sakrecoer> No, sorry rather "Lire comment ameilleurer Ubuntu Studio" No other language seems to say "_help_ make us better"
<sakrecoer> "ameilleurer" is the exact verb to say "make better". "Rendre Meilleur" isn't wrong per-se but flags: "lack of vocabulary"
<sakrecoer> zequence: http://sakrecoer.com/ubuntustudio/zequence_reinterp_sakrecoer1604.png
<sakrecoer> still just a sketch, the emission material makes the logo looks fater than it is...
<sakrecoer> later today i'll show you the tile for dualscreen..
<sakrecoer> that version i just posted is 3mb.. unsure if that isn't a bit much..
<zequence> sakrecoer: Not bad. I still haven't checked knome's proposal for the CoFs. Will do that shortly, and then perhaps we should use those
<sakrecoer> yes! that would be great!
<zequence> The one I use has a bit of blue in the borders, since I gimped out the original blue off it. Gives it a bit of glow
<sakrecoer> i used the old CoF in there, purely out of respect for you zequence :)
<sakrecoer> i notice, and i have fixed the blender material to have a lower emission, and a bit of blue fresnel ;)
<zequence> Looks pixely too, so that could be improved
<sakrecoer> yeah, it happens in cycle when there is too much light... it has a value that a screen can't render..
<zequence> sakrecoer: Does look even more Ubuntu now, though
<sakrecoer> i know, that is the fold-line effect
<sakrecoer> thought that was your intention with the second proposal..
<zequence> sakrecoer: Not just that. Less color variation
<zequence> Well, not entirely
<zequence> I was looking for encapsulating the colors more clearly
<sakrecoer> zequence: funny, id' say there are more variation, but never mind :)
<zequence> looking to*
<zequence> sakrecoer: Less of a range is what I mean
<zequence> Or, less dynamic anyway
<sakrecoer> there is less orange, agreed :)
<zequence> There's no light blue at all either
<sakrecoer> well, i based it on your first proposal.
<sakrecoer> but i've put that blue in the fresnel of the logo now..
<sakrecoer> ill show you later today
<zequence> sakrecoer: Consider making it more tricolor. That is the original idea, after all
<sakrecoer> ok, i will do!
<sakrecoer> i'll upload the sources too, if you fancy tuning the colors.. :)
<sakrecoer> i'll go eat now! cya in a bit!
<zequence> sakrecoer: Alright
<zequence> This aught to be my final version of this mockup. If I decide to release it somehow, I'll still fix a few details. I'm not considering it as a default wallpaper, anywho https://cloud.mousike.me/index.php/s/eUygTMH2fI0Id2p
<krytarik> sakrecoer: Nice spotting on the French translation there!  Those were synced from Xubuntu, and just adapted to our flavor name.  And eww indeed, I'll go with "Lire comment amÃ©liorer Ubuntu StudioÂ !" then.
<zequence> I'm kind of wondering now which desktop file should be where. The -menu should not include anything else except the additional multimedia menu logic, IMO. Since, it's not an integral part of the distro
<zequence> So, help files and such should go in -default-settings, which you get with -desktop
<zequence> Those go together
<zequence> I'll have a go through of the sources and see what belongs where
<zequence> Yeah, we should move those ubuntustudio info menu part into -default-settings
<krytarik> I was thinking of the desktop-agnostic bit there.
<zequence> We have some settings in -default-settings that aren't DE specific
<krytarik> Anyway, should I just push those changes for now?  Because I'm just about to. :P
<zequence> Sure
<krytarik> Done.
<zequence> The menu is not part of our distro, is what I mean. It's a component we use, but you can use it without Ubuntu Studio
<zequence> The interesting part of it is how it uses freedesktop categories in order to sort out the multimedia starters
<zequence> Well, that is what I've been working for it to do exclusively
<zequence> So, the menu is not Ubuntu Studio specific. It's simply an enhanced freedesktop standard, tuned towards multimedia use
<zequence> It could even be named something else, and added to Debian
<zequence> ..so that all Debian derived can use it
<zequence> Currently, it's very much customized towards Ubuntu Studio, which is not optimal, I think
<zequence> But, there are more things that need to be changed, so I won't touch it right now
<zequence> dependency on -installer, for instance
<sakrecoer> got a strange update for Ubuntu Studio Base today, "XSL stylesheets for the yelp help browser"
<sakrecoer> it warns me that "this will require installation from untrusted sources. :D
<zequence> It's actually ubuntu base
<zequence> It just renames it to ubuntustudio
<zequence> Perhaps there's some non-free stuff in that?
<zequence> Or, it's from Gnome directly, or something
<zequence> Should be free stuff
<sakrecoer> ok wondering why the "source is untrusted" then...
<sakrecoer> just read a terrible article about yelp..
<sakrecoer> off-topic anyway
<zequence> It's a help browser. "untrusted sources" means it will download something not from the archives in apt
<zequence> Why it does so, I don't know, but I'm sure there is a good reason for it
<zequence> Usually that only happens with non-free stuff
<zequence> But, I would be surprised if that was the case here
<sakrecoer> oh... well, pressed "ok" but the upgrade will not start due to that factor
<sakrecoer> need to change settings to do it...
<sakrecoer> haha! this is weird. runing apt-get update again removed it from the list :D
<sakrecoer> i've been told this 7Gk times now, but yeah... which package are the workflow icons located in again? :p
<krytarik> sakrecoer: -menu as well.
<sakrecoer> thanks krytarik !
<krytarik> Sure.
<sakrecoer> i'm using them to update the color chart on this page: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/Artwork/OfficialXenial
<OvenWerk1> krytarik: Thank you for cleaning that up. It looks right to me.
<krytarik> \o/
<sakrecoer> i think i wont do much more to it from here: me happy. but i'll push the blend file in the mockup folder of the branch. http://sakrecoer.com/ubuntustudio/ubuntustudio_3color_zequence_revisitedby_sakrecoer.png
<sakrecoer> now the tile, it is fighting me: wants to look like luis vuitton :p
<krytarik> sakrecoer: Oh crap, I really like that!  And awesome name, too. :P
<zequence> sakrecoer: Just to be clear, the only color that is absolutely determined is the blue
<zequence> Think we only have decided so far that video is purple (but not which purple exactly) and graphics orange
<zequence> sakrecoer: Nice job on the wallpaper. I like it.
<zequence> Very hi tech.
<zequence> but with the warmth
<zequence> sakrecoer: could you make one without the CoF as well?
<zequence> sakrecoer: Making the CoF blue created a whole new situation though, in my view. And, also gives more artistic freedom.
<zequence> I would try making it more ghostly. Less defined.
<zequence> sakrecoer: Also, I would like to see it without the folding.
<zequence> The most minimal would be just the color changes, no folding, no CoF. That might look nice
<sakrecoer> zequence: i'll try that!
<sakrecoer> zequence: i used these values in the wallpaper: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/Artwork/OfficialXenial
<sakrecoer> also krytarik: \o/
<sakrecoer> zequence: took the colors from the workflow icons
<sakrecoer> i think they are great. however, the hue is written on a wiki, not in stone. So if you find some better ones, please go ahead.
<sakrecoer> zequence: i'll try make the cof as a smoke ring :p
<sakrecoer> smoke emitting a bit of light...
<sakrecoer> i just really want to get this tile right first..
<sakrecoer> oh well, http://sakrecoer.com/ubuntustudio/ubuntustudio_3color_zequence_revisitedby_sakrecoer-moghost_flat_whitecof.png
<sakrecoer> zequence: like the filename says: more ghost, white cof and flat :)
<zequence> sakrecoer: That was pretty awesome
<sakrecoer> flat, the colorfades create a rather hypnotic artefact. i could make a 16-bit png tho... but the file would be considerably heavier
<sakrecoer> \o/
<zequence> This latest version to me is a clear candidate for default wallpaper
<sakrecoer> (#^.^#)
<zequence> I should let madeinkobaia know about this one. At the very least we should add it to the collection
<sakrecoer> weee!!! \o/ i'll spend some more time fighting with my tile tho, i think it is worth it for dualscreen scenarios as OvenWerk1 mentioned.
<zequence> alright
#ubuntustudio-devel 2016-04-01
<Len__> Latest try to get qjackctl working fails :(
<Len__> The real problem from my POV is that indicators have reduced functionality as compared to systray items. Indicators trade functionality for being able to change settings easy... not a great trade where settings get used once in the life of an install.
<flocculant> Len__: have none of these things been changing for studio since 14.04 then? 
 * flocculant is just looking from outside here obviously
<Len__> I think they have, but moving to qt5 seems to force some things.
<flocculant> oh right
<Len__> Also I am still running the last LTS as my daily
<flocculant> *we* don't tend to see those things 
<flocculant> yea
<flocculant> I think the old way is still there - I guess you're seeing the result of Xubuntu choices
<Len__> flocculant: I can't find any xfce bits for systray, just indicators.
<Len__> indicators _is_ the future if I like it or not, but there is the messy crossover.
<flocculant> pretty sure all the old stuff is still there - xubuntu just uses indicators* now
<Len__> qjackctl happens to be a minor app in the linux ecosystem as a whole, but major in the Pro-Audio ecosystem.
<flocculant> yea - I can at least understand that :)
<Len__> Quassel does show any icon either, says no docmanager.
<Len__> Hmm, but alltray can grab quassel and dock it...
<Len__> I would be quite happy to replace the panel with Cairo-dock. (should work on any DE)
#ubuntustudio-devel 2016-04-02
<sakrecoer> OvenWerks: mark it for 16.10 blueprint!
<sakrecoer> looks good! made we want to try it. OvenWerks how is it on ressources? looks a bit like gnome..
<zequence> I think cairo dock uses openGL and needs 3D acceleration in order to work
<zequence> All this to fix qjackctl?
<zequence> Isn't that like cirkling the sun to get to the moon?
<zequence> We need to push for the qt4 fix for qjackctl. That's the only thing that works
<zequence> Let's be reasonable
<zequence> Besides, the whole world is not using UBuntu Studio with qjackctl
<zequence> It needs to work everywhere
<zequence> OvenWerks: If an app supports indicators, that is used before systray
<zequence> Unfortunately, qjackctl has very poor support for indicators
<zequence> But, it is there
<zequence> And, that is where the problem is, completely
<zequence> Looking at the bug report, I'm sure Dmitry will exhaust other possibilities first, and then use qt4
<zequence> Bug 1546328
<ubottu> bug 1546328 in qjackctl (Ubuntu) "Systray option does not work." [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1546328
<sakrecoer> OvenWerks: would this be something for multidispla spanned? it's supposed to be used as a tile...
<sakrecoer> http://sakrecoer.com/ubuntustudio/1604tile-sakrecoer.png
<sakrecoer> i'm trying a few more settings where it's alla bit softer...
<cfhowlett> my eyes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
<cfhowlett> :)
<sakrecoer> haha :) are they burning from the funky colors or soothed by it, cfhowlett ?
<cfhowlett> Perhaps with a softer focus but ... no logo?
<sakrecoer> i tried with logo, but it gets very "luis vuitton"-ish from the repetitino
<sakrecoer> repetition
<sakrecoer> its tile, so it repeats all over the screen
<OvenWerks> Don't take me too seriously on the cairo-dock thing, That is exactly oposite to DE agnostic, it is making our own DE in effect.
<OvenWerks> zequence: I agree that qjackctl's qt5 indicator implementation is just bad. Rui seems to be trying to make an indicator work like a systray item...
<OvenWerks> sakrecoer: I also think that backdrop is "too much".
<zequence> OvenWerks: Ok. Well, we have discussed a multimedia panel in the past, and perhaps Cairo dock could be an alternative for that?
<zequence> I haven't used it for many years myself
<OvenWerks> The colours are fine, but the shapes are too busy for me. I like a large shape that fills the screen... then if it spans well, it unifies the dual monitors without repeating itself.
<OvenWerks> zequence: really cairo-dock is almost like unity's dock in many ways (what I remember of it) just horizontal out of the box rather than vertical
<zequence> OvenWerks: Think it's a lot more customizable though
<OvenWerks> now that unity has matured... making Studio on top of it almost sounds reasonable.
<zequence> That said, not sure how moddable the Unity dock is
<OvenWerks> zequence: that may be true, I did not spend much time with it... and really we don't have that time either
<zequence> Yeah, it does. But, I would then want to be able to offer the user other choices as well
<zequence> No, we are way past making any changes at this point
<zequence> Only artwork and bug fixes now
<OvenWerks> zequence: this cycle for sure, but even down the road, I think there are better things to focus on.
<OvenWerks> it is easy to get side tracked with shiny things. I was mainly trying different things to see if qjackctl worked any better on them... but it is just broken.
<zequence> Yeah
<OvenWerks> really, xfce's ability to save a number of different panel setups would be something a good way of dealing with workflows, but again it uses time that could go somewhere else and moves away from our goal.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2016-04-03
<John__> hi
<John__> anyone here?
<cfhowlett> ask your support questions
#ubuntustudio-devel 2017-03-29
<OvenWerks> note conversation in #ubuntustudio is handbrake worth including?
<eylul> Ovenwerks: if you want to convert videos into mkv (and possibly mp4 too, less sure on that one) it might be the best tool out there right now.  I am leaving aside the issues with MPEG codec distribution aside.  So.. yes, I think? (I mean we include tools with that level of specificity in audio)
<eylul> actually edit: https://handbrake.fr/news.php?article=37
<eylul> its not just mkv etc. it also supports vb8 vb9 now... yeah we should add it I think. *is still not sure why she can't get this to work on her own copy*
<OvenWerks> eylul: is that something we can still do this cycle? or is it next?
<eylul> uhhh. that's a harder question.. *is totally disoriented as to where we are in the cycle and goes to check*
 * eylul is actually first checking if it is in the ubuntu repos
<OvenWerks> I have also (on my system installed soundconverter. It is really handy for distributing audio in more than one format
<OvenWerks> I would like to add that too
<eylul> lets make a package list. 
<eylul> even if we don't make it this round, we should keep a running list of items we want to add
<OvenWerks> right
<OvenWerks> I am guessing everytime I like an audio only tool, I should be thinking "I bet we need this for video too"
<eylul> (btw sorry for vanishing.. I came home in early march to a one hell of a backlog of work, still trying to clear it up)
<eylul> handbrake is like ffmpeg except it actually has a sane GUI
<OvenWerks> eylul: no one else has been here either
<eylul> it definitely is a good software. 
<eylul> I am around for people tagging my name so feel free to call, I just didn't have time to resurrect the meetings and regularly check with people yet because.. yeah.. life..  :) anyway.. lets see..
 * OvenWerks has had life issues here too
<eylul> nothing bad I hope? :(
<eylul> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/handbrake its there and actively maintained (1.0 is the current release, or close enough)
<OvenWerks> just life
<eylul> so is soundconverter: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/soundconverter
<OvenWerks> ya I checked at least that much before I posted :)
<eylul> oh sorry! :D
<OvenWerks> np
<eylul> we are past final beta freeze
<eylul> assuming there is no delay *drops a  message to kryten to ask
<eylul> with no uploader, my suggestion is not to push it
<eylul> especially since we have limited manpower to test too
<OvenWerks> about what I fugured
<eylul> but to have a meeting after the release to better coordinate the cycle, and get these two in early before we forget. :)
 * OvenWerks really would like focus follows mind...
<eylul> goodness, release candidate is next week
<eylul> btw ovenwerks, how is controls going?
<OvenWerks> eylul: untouched mostly. I have been on meds that make me tired/sick for about 3 mon. add other stuff... not much work.
<eylul> its alright. just asked to figure out where we are with it
<OvenWerks> it needs to be backed down till it works...
<OvenWerks> so I need to install a daily on another partition so I can trouble shoot it
<eylul> *nods*
<OvenWerks> I have also been tutoring a friend in sh programming... which means relearning more.
<OvenWerks> he moves on to c next week I think
<eylul> nice :)
<eylul> ok emailing the mailing list about release..
<eylul> lets see if we can get the group together again
<eylul> Ovenwerks: so wait.. is a version of controls in the zesty or not at all?
<eylul> or is it only the startup script?
<OvenWerks> whats there doesn't work I think.
<OvenWerks> Check the dev mail list at the beginning of the month
<eylul> yeah I saw that
<eylul> do we need to pull out anything that is in the packages?
<eylul> (the thread doesn't have the conclusion to that part)
<OvenWerks> it needs to go back at least one commit.. but when he did that it didn't work for him
<OvenWerks> that is why I suspect I need to test on the right version.
<eylul> ok
<OvenWerks> It may mean just running the gui through the new version of glade to clean it up.
<eylul> glade has been breaking up for me, (but it might be that I am using KDE on top of Ubuntustudio these days)
<eylul> ok
<OvenWerks> :P  I started everyone in the house on KDE (kubuntu) and two of them are no longer
<OvenWerks> One is on lubuntu (10 plus year old machine) and the other is now xubuntu... I got tired of fixing them.
<OvenWerks> my other son has had no problems
<eylul> I am somewhat stuck on it.. because XFCE's ability to handle HiDPI is a bit headache inducing (literally, like causing headaches because of trying to read too small things) :D
<OvenWerks> :)
<OvenWerks> I can't afford (or need really) hidpi. Though it would be nice for mixbus-32c
<eylul> artist
<OvenWerks> Ya, I am not as visual in things
<eylul> :)
<eylul> but yeah..
<eylul> I need to also figure out if 17.04 is installing on this machine now..
<eylul> if I can make the time *sighs and refuses to complain further*
<eylul> ok. I need to go and submit something that is due tonight.. but feel free to tag me if you need anything? (this goes for anyone else) 
<eylul> and it was nice talking to you Ovenwerks. :)
<OvenWerks> you as well
<OvenWerks> From my lasy iso I am 44.7% of the way.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2017-03-30
<studio-devel574> hi
<studio-devel574> i download it ubuntu studio 16.10 
<studio-devel574> sha1sum is not match 
<studio-devel574> my SAH1 is : D4F93F9BD1360B950523CBBD1BC4C28C877D84A8
<studio-devel574> on Web site is : 2a4169c0b3dddbe59db44b5ea5356f2d5000de76 *ubuntustudio-16.10-dvd-amd64.iso
<studio-devel574> I have downloaded likely to be incomplete?
#ubuntustudio-devel 2017-03-31
 * OvenWerks does not like the Z theme. I am guessing we got it from xubuntu?
<OvenWerks> window handles are too small to easily grab for window size changes
<OvenWerks> Active window is almost indistiguishable from out of focus windows :P
<OvenWerks> I still find whisker painful  to use :)
<OvenWerks> We seem to be back to auto mounting cd/USBsticks etc. This could ruin a perfectly good take.
<OvenWerks> Ardour 5.0? 5.8 has been out for a while already
<OvenWerks> of course the picture in our install slide show of ardour is old now too.
<OvenWerks> proposed has ardour 5.5 will check.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2017-04-01
<OvenWerks> ardour 5.5 in proposed works ok. calf plugins fail, but most other plugins seem to be ok.
<OvenWerks> calf plugins crashing happens because of lib differences.
 * OvenWerks notes that calf also crashes ardour 5.8 downloaded from ardour.org
#ubuntustudio-devel 2018-03-26
<sakrecoer> hi all!
<sakrecoer> welcome ErichEickmeyer 
#ubuntustudio-devel 2018-03-27
<ErichEickmeyer> sakrecoer: Hi!
<ErichEickmeyer> Thanks!
<ErichEickmeyer> Sorry for the delayed response, was out and about, seeing the doctor, etc.
<studio-devel> help
<studio-devel> \HELP
<studio-devel> \exit
#ubuntustudio-devel 2018-03-29
<sakrecoer> hi ErichEickmeyer! as you can set i can be rather delayed too.
<ErichEickmeyer> sakrecoer: Haha! Yeah, but that's okay. 
<sakrecoer> but if you ping me, i will eventually see it: my IRC shell is always here.
<sakrecoer> got arround to answer you, and mikeloco today..
<ErichEickmeyer> Cool. I'm pretty much all set, got the Launchpad stuff out of the way.
<sakrecoer> nice!
<sakrecoer> :)
<sakrecoer> cool! just saw your response, ErichEickmeyer :)
<sakrecoer> you should recieve a notification from twitter now ErichEickmeyer 
<ErichEickmeyer> Yep, just did.
<sakrecoer> ErichEickmeyer: I am sure you get the gist: good language, good behaviour, don't engage in negativity or conflicts etc... :) 
<sakrecoer> cfhowlett seems to have made a great job in japan: so many japanese tweets about ubuntustudio!!
#ubuntustudio-devel 2018-03-30
<fipyefhq> .-.            .-.
<fipyefhq> /   \          /   \
<fipyefhq> |   _ \        / _   |
<fipyefhq> ;  | \ \      / / |  ;
<fipyefhq> \  \ \ \_.._/ / /  /
<fipyefhq> '. '.;'    ';,' .'
<fipyefhq> './ _    _ \.'
<fipyefhq> .'  a __ a  '.
<fipyefhq> '--./ _,   \/   ,_ \.--'
<fipyefhq> ----|   \   /\   /   |----
<fipyefhq> .--'\   '-'  '-'    /'--.
<fipyefhq> _>.__  -- _.-  `;
<fipyefhq> .' _     __/     _/
<fipyefhq> /    '.,:".-\    /:,
<fipyefhq> |      \.'   `""`'.\\
<fipyefhq> '-,.__/  _   .-.  ;|_
<fipyefhq> /` `|| _/ `\/_  \_|| `\
<fipyefhq> |    ||/ \-./` \ / ||   |
<fipyefhq> \   ||__/__|___|__||  /
<fipyefhq> \_ |_Happy Easter_| /
<fipyefhq> jgs .'  \ =  _= _ = _= /`\
<fipyefhq> /     `-;----=--;--'   \
<fipyefhq> \    _.-'        '.    /
<fipyefhq> `""`              `""`
<fipyefhq> L0DE AND CHRON FROM #LRH & L0DE RADIO HOUR (IRC.EFNET.ORG) WANTED TO SAY HAPPY EASTER!!
<fipyefhq> krytarik trebmuh DalekSec bluesabre Noskcaj ErichEickmeyer_ sakrecoer micahg ubuntulo1 meetingology OvenWerks flexiondotorg ubottu cyphermox
#ubuntustudio-devel 2019-03-25
 * OvenWerks doesn't know LSP plugs...looking
<OvenWerks> maybe we can get people to likke those over calf ;)
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Perhaps, but they're still missing some features that Calf has. Also, Calf is actively working on their own toolkit as to not depend on GTK, so that might help.
<Eickmeyer> That said, I might get to work on pulling their code and what falktx has in terms of packaging and cleaning that up.
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: LSP... what is the difference between "leftright" and "stereo"?
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: That's a question to which I don't have the answer. I can only assume it's the difference between dual mono and stereo processing, but I don't really know.
<OvenWerks> My first thought was that for stereo one set of knobs would control both channels but that doesn't seem to be the case
<OvenWerks> I don't see a chanel lock or anything and the leftright has balance too.
<Eickmeyer> I'll have to investigate. I have yet to install for myself.
<Eickmeyer> Crazy busy weekend with my son's birthday and all of the shenanigans with that.
<Eickmeyer> Might be worth asking in #lad.
<OvenWerks> just figured it out
<OvenWerks> stereo does seem to have one control for both channels
<Eickmeyer> That would make sense. Means LeftRight is dual mono.
<OvenWerks> leftright is two independant eq sets... left and right can be EQed differently but stereo can't
<OvenWerks> stereo is two, but with linked controls
<OvenWerks> s/two/too/
<Eickmeyer> Naturally.. Just in my experience, two independent channels are referred to as dual mono. That might be my video production experience talking.
 * OvenWerks video production experience is very old.... 1980 to 1984 or 5
<OvenWerks> All analog
<OvenWerks> Video recorded on 2inch quad or 1inch helical.
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: in a plugin case, rightleft makes sense as a plugin either sits in a mono strip/route or a stereo strip/route. So a 2 chanel strip/route is stereo program material not two mono channels. With a hardware two channel EQ one side may be used for drums and the there for a guitar
<OvenWerks> s/there/other/
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Yeah, that makes sense.
<OvenWerks> have you been watching LAC at all?
<Eickmeyer> LAC? (in other words, no.)
<OvenWerks> linux audio conference
<OvenWerks> There are two days left
<OvenWerks> I got yesterdays, but missed most of todays
<Eickmeyer> That must be what rgareus and falktx were talking about.
<OvenWerks> https://lac.linuxaudio.org/2019/
<OvenWerks> ya, #lac2019 in irc
<OvenWerks> there is a group in cbase berlin (I think) watching remotely the video stram.
<OvenWerks> stream
<OvenWerks> The video stream is picky, vlc works though
<Eickmeyer> Cool. I might have to jump-in tomorrow.
<OvenWerks> You can ask questions via irc.
<OvenWerks> I found out AVB is a cpu hog... at least the way https://lac.linuxaudio.org/2019/doc/kuhr.pdf
<OvenWerks> these guys do it
<OvenWerks> They are doing 6 frame packets... very low latency. 16 is 2/3ms
<Eickmeyer> Perhaps now, but if they can whittle it down and optimize it, perhaps it'll be better in the future.
<OvenWerks> Ya, I think I would go for the 12 frames to see if that was better
<Eickmeyer> Yeah, that's zero latency for all intents and purposes.
<OvenWerks> There is a 1ms mode (aes67 standard) which I would tend to use.
<Eickmeyer> I agree with that. I reallllly want to see something replace Dante.
<OvenWerks> Dante will now connect to aes67
<Eickmeyer> Well, that eases the transition, certainly, but Audinate has kinda had the market cornered on that concept for all too long.
<Eickmeyer> I absolutely abhor it being proprietary / without Linux support.
<OvenWerks> there is an alsa ase67 driver... but it is not that nice, it needs work... the jack backend the link above has would work great for aes67 as a jack client.
<Eickmeyer> Indeed.
<OvenWerks> the nice thing about using jack client is being able to change network routing or number of channels without stopping jack.
<OvenWerks> The backend just supplies the media clock
<OvenWerks> (from avb/aes67 network master clock)
<OvenWerks> Some projects I would like to see (or do):
<Eickmeyer> I would've used that to implement multi-track recording across a network.
<OvenWerks>  - pulse-jack bridge upgrade (make it look like a device
<OvenWerks>  - a bluetooth audio jack client using libzita-src
<OvenWerks>  - jack avb and aes67 clients
<OvenWerks>  - make one of the pins of an intel i210 enet card have wordclock/spdif sync out from avb/aes67 media clock
<Eickmeyer> Those would all be super useful.
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: yes, it would be easy to add new inputs with extra avb boxes when needed.
<OvenWerks> The last one is so I could still use my internal audio card in sync :)
<OvenWerks> (it will sync to spdif)
<Eickmeyer> Honestly, it sounds like something we've needed for a long time to happen.
<OvenWerks> pulse-jack was only ever an example pulse plugin
<Eickmeyer> Well, exactly, and the buffer it requires causes way too much latency.
<OvenWerks> I forgot to add putting gui stuff for tablets in -controls
<Eickmeyer> Oh yes. Definitely.
<OvenWerks> pulse should not share the same buffer size as jack, but the bridge forces that.
<Eickmeyer> Exactly. That's the sucky part.
<OvenWerks> Then there is the digital video audio lines (HDMI?) which wants jack set to 8192
<OvenWerks> I don't know if zita-ajbridge deals with that well at all
<Eickmeyer> Yeah, that seems weird. I don't know enough about how audio is sent over HDMI.
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: video is more latent than audio. frame rate of 60hz 166ms
<OvenWerks> so audio is probably sent at a similar rate... the audio card in part of the gpu
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Indeed. At my former job, we worked with a lot of BlackMagic Design hardware and SDI. Introducing a frame (1/30 sec) of latency was something we'd try to avoid.
<Eickmeyer> When encoding for IP broadcast we'd have to take the audio from the mixer and inject it into the video stream, adding a compensation delay.
<OvenWerks> yes, but obviously any syncing is is to the nearest frame
<Eickmeyer> Right.
<OvenWerks> if there are two video streams out of sync frame storage is the only thing.
<Eickmeyer> Yep. A delay anywhere meant a delay everywhere.
<Eickmeyer> Of course, when doing IP broadcast it was to a remote IP DVR, so we weren't worried about that so much as we were making sure the recording on the other end was nicely synced.
<OvenWerks> Standard SR for audio with video is 48k... they can pull that from chroma (in the old days)
<Eickmeyer> I'm pretty sure it's still 48k, but the audio is sent as a digital track now not relying on the chroma. ATSC is worlds apart from NTSC.
<Eickmeyer> They can push 96k afaik.
<Eickmeyer> 12G SDI is where it's at though. 4k video and audio via a coaxial cable.
<Eickmeyer> Of course, it's limited to 300 feet, but for live video that's pretty good.
<Eickmeyer> And then there's repeaters that can be implemented, but that's where latency can become an issue.
<Eickmeyer> I've done audio for 25 years, but my video knowledge and implementation tends to be stronger for whatever reason, and I've only done that for about 16 years.
<OvenWerks> is sdi still 8 audio streams?
<OvenWerks> hdmi is these days
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: 12G can do up to 16, I believe.
<Eickmeyer> Rosco2: o/
<Eickmeyer> I just sent an email. Carla is in the archive, feel free to remove jack-rack and add carla to the seed at your earliest convenience (ASAP since today is beta freeze) :)
<Rosco2> I was just looking at carla
<Rosco2> We have a build failure on arm which will prevent 2.0.0 getting out of proposed
<Rosco2> Might want to try -- --disable-sse2 or something on the auto-config override conditional on ARCH=armhf
<Rosco2> will do the seeds now
<Eickmeyer> Rosco2: Not true, it's out of proposed. vorlon made an exception.
<Rosco2> yes - for 1.9.13 - not 2.0.0?
<Eickmeyer> As a rule for the package.
<Eickmeyer> Either way, he's aware.
<Rosco2> Maybe ask for the same exception?
<Eickmeyer> I'm on it.
<Rosco2> If disabling the sse flag doesn't work, we could just not build for arm 
<Eickmeyer> <Eickmeyer> vorlon: That failure won't prevent it from migrating from propsed will it?
<Eickmeyer> <vorlon> Eickmeyer: no
<Rosco2> OK
<Eickmeyer> So, an arm failure isn't a blocker in this case.
<Eickmeyer> <vorlon> what matters for migration is not regressing the set of supported archs
<Rosco2> Got it.
<Rosco2> Anyway - we can try and fix it in Debian.
<Eickmeyer> True.
<Eickmeyer> Either way, that's going to be the 2.0 release. I did a whole new tarball for it.
<Rosco2> Let me know if you want me to sponsor an upload to Debian for you
<Rosco2> Then you will have your first upload there.
<Rosco2> :-)
<Eickmeyer> Rosco2: Will do. I think my next big project is going to be the lsp-plugins.
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: midizap looks good
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Indeed. I was looking for something with that functionality at my previous job.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2019-03-26
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: lsp-plugins entering autobuillds (Already, I know!)
<Eickmeyer> Some of the credit goes to trebmuh for having some of the work done already. :)
<trebmuh> hi Eickmeyer 
<trebmuh> question: why removing all the info in d/changelog?
<trebmuh> remark: d/copyright : the licence for "*" needs to be changed to LGPL-3 as it is the current licence
<trebmuh> remark: you need to clean d/rules since you are currently building the package with KXstudio rules
<trebmuh> eg: using pkg-config from /opt/kxstudio/lib/pkgconfig which doesn't sounds good to me while building the package in a Ubuntu chroot context
<Eickmeyer> trebmuh: I had to clean the changelog rather quickly. There were too many epohs. Epochs need to be avoided at all costs.
<Eickmeyer> I'll put the relevant info back, but overall, the changelog needs a lot of work.
<Eickmeyer> Yes, the license file needs work. I'm far from done..
<Eickmeyer> Also, the rules file builds just fine, so I don't see any reason to clean it too much.
<Eickmeyer> But, yes, I'lll get rid of the kxstudio reference.
<Eickmeyer> It's all just very early stages.
<Eickmeyer> trebmuh: There's nothing in the rules file for using pkg-config from /opt/kxstudio/pkgconfig, so I can't find what you're talking about.
<Eickmeyer> trebmuh: Oops, was looking at the wrong repo. Disregard.
<Eickmeyer> trebmuh: Pushed those fixes. Thanks!
<Eickmeyer> Rosco2: Congrats on the upload rights for the package set!!!!!!
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: ^
<Eickmeyer> sakrecoer: ^^
<Rosco2> \o/
<Rosco2> Now I have no excuse for not doing any work :-)
<Eickmeyer> Haha! Well, it was two years in the making and took a lot of pushing and shoving, but you've finally "arrived."
<Eickmeyer> Possibly 3 years, if you look at the history leading up to it.
<Eickmeyer> I've been encouraged to apply next, but I think I want to get another package under my belt.
<Eickmeyer> Thats' why https://launchpad.net/lsp-plugins is now a thing and available in our Autobuilds.
<Rosco2> As long as I am available, there is no hurry. I can now sponsor anything you do in the package set.
<Eickmeyer> This would be an entirely new package, so I'm going to have to go through the whole MOTU -> Archive Admin process like I did with Carla.
<Rosco2> Of course NEW stuff like lsp-plugins will need a MOTU
<Rosco2> Yes - the Debian path is blocked for a few months
<Rosco2> Nearly done with Hexter in Debian. Can get that synced, although it will need unblocking now we are in Beta.
<Rosco2> Then I will look at x42
<Eickmeyer> Okay, cool. Mira Mikes has gone MIA.
<Eickmeyer> He's got a huge TODO backlog, including x42.
<Rosco2> Yeah - he was prolific, but got busy
<Rosco2> I would like to get some sort of a package tracker set up to monitor our packages
<Eickmeyer> I think we can all relate.
<Eickmeyer> I'm trying to think of a way to do that in Launchpad, but I don't know.
<Eickmeyer> Perhaps the packageset script shows something?
<Eickmeyer> cyphermox: ^ ?
<Rosco2> You can extract the source packages from the package set in Launchpad
<Rosco2> Then you can interogate launchpad for version in different releases and bugs
<cyphermox> hum, sorry, what is the question?
<Rosco2> you can also interrogate UDD for Debian info
<Eickmeyer> cyphermox: We're trying to figure out what a good way to get a package tracker set up to monitor our packages.
<cyphermox> ah
<Eickmeyer> I was wondering if you had ideas.
<cyphermox> I do
<cyphermox> something like this? http://people.canonical.com/~platform/desktop/desktop.html
<Eickmeyer> Uh, that would be perfect. Rosco2 ^
<Rosco2> Yes - I had tried mucking about with launchpad-lib from scratch.
<Rosco2> Better to steal something.
 * Eickmeyer figured there had to be something already done
<Rosco2> That looks like a good start :-)
<cyphermox> Rosco2: Eickmeyer: ask seb128 or Laney in #ubuntu-desktop where the script is for this and if you could steal it ;)
 * Eickmeyer joins
<cyphermox> they are both from Europe so they may or may not answer just yet
<studiobot> <azbulutlu> grats Rosco2
<cyphermox> didrocks is also a potential victim ;)
<Eickmeyer> Rosco2: azbulutlu = eylul-
<studiobot> <azbulutlu> I really need to clarify that (or change my telegram name xD)
<Eickmeyer> Haha
<cyphermox> you asked in public or pm?
<Eickmeyer> cyphermox: I haven't asked yet. None of those that you mentioned are in the room.
<Rosco2> Thanks :-)
<cyphermox> oh
<Eickmeyer> And, I've been busy with other pings. They come in waves. :)
<cyphermox> solid point!
<Eickmeyer> Hehe
<cyphermox> I have a hard time seeing if people are in or out, my part messages don't always show
<cyphermox> (or quits for that matter)
 * cyphermox stabs weechat
<Eickmeyer> Well, I'm lurking in there, so we'll see what happens.
<cyphermox> ok
<cyphermox> sorry, I can't really help much more, I don't know what generates those
<cyphermox> hm... I could go look though, I might have access :)
<Eickmeyer> cyphermox: Pointing us in the right direction was perfect, but if you have access.... :)
<Rosco2> Well - we need to concentrate on ISO testing & bug fixing for a bit :-)
<Eickmeyer> I use Quassel with a separate core on the same server that's running studiobot, so I never really disconnect.
<Eickmeyer> Rosco2: This is true. Beta is on Thursday. I plan to do a bunch of that stuff today, new computer on the way.
<Eickmeyer> Not just for testing, but for mutliple uses. The timing is just right.
<Rosco2> This is the first release for a while that I have a play computer
<Rosco2> I have had to be careful for a while not to break my good machines
 * Rosco2 going to find food - it hasn't come to me today
<cyphermox> Eickmeyer: I have enough to tell you the code is here:
<cyphermox> https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop/ubuntu-desktop-versions/trunk
<Eickmeyer> cyphermox: Okay, perfect. Shouldn't be hard to fork, but then it needs to be hosted.
<Rosco2> Excellent! Thanks cyphermox
<cyphermox> yep
<cyphermox> so; you might still want to ask seb or Laney or didrocks if they can host it for you
<Rosco2> It can go on my people page until we get it working properly
<cyphermox> and if you have changes; submit a merge proposal, I'm sure they'll be happy to review / merge
<cyphermox> it's not only a page though, it's a script that needs to be run
<Eickmeyer> I just posted in there in general. Hopefully the right people will see.
<cyphermox> if necessary, I'll be happy to host it /after/ I finish rebuilding that server (which needs to happen this week)
<Eickmeyer> If not, I could always ping them.
<cyphermox> Eickmeyer: Rosco2: you'll still be left with how to see what packages you care about
<cyphermox> either using team subcriptions, if you want to use that
<Eickmeyer> willcooke just respoded.
<cyphermox> or you could look at edit-acl (https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-archive/ubuntu-archive-tools/trunk/view/head:/edit-acl) to see how to get the list of packages in a packageset programmatically
<Rosco2> the packageset report gets the list of packages from launchpad
<Rosco2> Lot os options!
<Rosco2> of
 * Rosco2 really going to get food before I faint
<cyphermox> Rosco2: the pacakgeset report?
<cyphermox> oh, true
<cyphermox> there's lots of scripts that can do it anyway, since IIRC it's a well-documented API call
<cyphermox> Eickmeyer: do you know who owns ubuntustudio.org?
<Eickmeyer> Canonical.
<cyphermox> ah?
<Eickmeyer> Well, I don't have access to it, except the Wordpress front-end.
<Eickmeyer> Everything has to go through IS, afaik.
<cyphermox> oh, right; the DNS is canonical
<cyphermox> hrm
<cyphermox> so is the hosting, it seems
<cyphermox> I had no idea
<OvenWerks> Rosco2: congrats! now just time...
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: falktx made a good point at LAC. "falktx> stable release with rolling audio audio packages is the best"
<OvenWerks> I think this is what we are doing with back ports. However, I think it would be a good thing to document it as such as well.
<Rosco2> Thanks OvenWerks, now maybe we should stop stealing your good work and sponsor your packages. Having three uploaders would be a dream :-)
<OvenWerks> That is, rather suggesting people upgrade to "intermeiate releases" have a policy that in general LTS releases (ubuntu repo LST) is the best install. Adding backports for applications to keep up to date
<OvenWerks> Rosco2: I am sure uploaders are great. I won't be going there though. I have too much on my plate already
<Rosco2> Sure - but some of your packages got uploaded with only be changing the name. They were already in good shape.
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: intermediat releases would be considered Beta only. And all work on them would be prep for next LTS... ie no backdrop change or other such "fluff"
<OvenWerks> Rosco2: I am not sure what you mean really. The only two packages I think are -controls and -installer
<OvenWerks> I do try to keep them clean because they belong to Studio.
<Rosco2> Two packages, but several version were uploaded. No problems.
<OvenWerks> cool.
<Rosco2> No pressure :-)
<OvenWerks> I have work to do in Ardour as well. I am part way through an Ardour progect that I have left for a few months while working on those packages.
 * OvenWerks finds GUI work hard
<Rosco2> Personally I like the idea of intermediate releases. The work in testing and writing is a small proce for the generation of publicity from an announcement.
<Rosco2> me/ finds any programming slow and hard - but fun
<OvenWerks> My personal thought is that if we have the testing "staff" that is fine but I haven't any time for testing for maybe two releases
<OvenWerks> intermediate releases are also good for people with new HW that needs kernel support. As such they should work but polish beyond the last LTS is not as important
<OvenWerks> Rosco2: I think announcement of a new package available in backports can also be used for publicity as these aften come between releases.
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: ^^
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: That's really what we're working toward, IMO.
<Eickmeyer> I did some fluff this time because, well, I had the time.
<Eickmeyer> But, the real highlights are the features in -controls and -installer.
<OvenWerks> which is fine too as that is work towards the next lts too
<Eickmeyer> And the inclusion of Crla.
<Eickmeyer> *Carla
<Eickmeyer> All of the intermediate releases eventually reach a zenith at the LTS.
<OvenWerks> LSP will be in back ports too?
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: That's the plan.
<Eickmeyer> What I have is a stable release, but I want to get the packaging cleaned-up a bit.
<OvenWerks> so upstream -> backports -> release
<Eickmeyer> One person said I should split-out the lv2, ladspa, and VST plugins into separate packages, but seeing as how we have the infrastructure for all 3 by default (and not all 3 are supported by every DAW), I don't see the point.
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Bingo.
<OvenWerks> so long as the LV1 doesn't crash things
<Eickmeyer> Really, upsream -> Autobuilds -> Backports (once stable) -> release.
<Eickmeyer> LV1 shouldn't in this case. We're not talking about Calf here.
<OvenWerks> having the ladspa separate still makes sense
<OvenWerks> there was another ladspa package that was problematical too: csladspa
<OvenWerks> but I think that was ladspa only
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: That's because the version that was pulled from Debian during Bionic was known to be problematic and had a bug fix shortly after.
<OvenWerks> has it been backported?
<Eickmeyer> Nope.
<OvenWerks> is it past eol?
<Eickmeyer> The issue was fixed before Cosmic.
<Eickmeyer> Bionic is 18.04, so no, it would just need an SRU.
<Eickmeyer> BUT, I think it was fixed before release but didn't make it into the ISO, so people are filing bugs without updating their system first. I always shudder when I see bug reports for a "fresh install" because it means, typically, they didn't update it.
<Eickmeyer> Honestly, I don't remember correctly. I do remember participating in a bug report on it and investigating.
<Rosco2> Eickmeyer, Have you heard of the backportpackage tool in ubuntu-dev-tools
<Rosco2> It is really easy to use
<Rosco2> Assume a package makes it into Debian quickly, you don't need to package the new upstream
<Rosco2> Just use the backportpackage tool to backport from the Ubuntu development release
<Rosco2> Assuming Debian reacts fast is not always true though ;-)
<Eickmeyer> Rosco2: That's really cool.
 * Eickmeyer needs a nap.
<stormchas2000> Good afternoon, I have been using Ubuntu for 10 years. and ubuntu studio for 2 years. 
<stormchas2000> I would like to help where ever I can. I am still very green in development, but maybe in testing or other areas I can help.
<Eickmeyer> stormchas2000: Thanks for the offer. We're just about to hit our beta testing period, which is testing and bug-squish time for 19.04. Announcement should be Thursday on that, but you're welcome to grab the latest daily ISO and give it a shot at http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntustudio/dvd/current/
<Eickmeyer> Right now, that's the image that should become our beta image if everything goes right.
<stormchas2000> Thank you, I will look it over. and as I need help I will ask, since this will be my first time. But i feel that i should start helping out since I have benifited so much with Ubuntu.
<Eickmeyer> stormchas2000: There's no reason to feel such obligation, but we appreciate the help.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2019-03-27
 * Eickmeyer just tested the Beta build
<Eickmeyer> Looks good to go!
 * Eickmeyer checked the boxes
<studio-devel145> Hi, I use LyX for editing novels
<studio-devel145> I wonder why it's not part of Ubuntu Studio
<studio-devel145> It may fit well in the Publishing section, together with LaTeX
<studio-devel145> I was considering moving out from Lubuntu and adopt Ubuntu Studio
 * OvenWerks likes lyx too... but doesn't write enough to know.
<Eickmeyer> Do we have something installed by default that duplicates its functionality?
<OvenWerks> I think scrbus is the closest, but no latex output.
<OvenWerks> The thing is Lyx is a one thing deal. It only does latex and nothing else (last I looked)
<OvenWerks> Latex used to be the only way a publisher would accept a book but self publishing straight to printer is mostly pdf I think now
<OvenWerks> latex (and therefore Lyx) is still the top dog in math representation and I know my son used it in university.
<Eickmeyer> I'm not comfortable adding it to the seed this close to beta (and release), so perhaps once EE opens, we can add it.
<Eickmeyer> Honestly, though, Lubuntu doesn't install Lyx by default either, so I don't understand the point they were trying to make.
<Eickmeyer> (I'd also counterpoint that we're not competing with Lubuntu, but that's a different story)
<studiobot> <azbulutlu> lyx and scribus are completely different tools for different purposes. lyx is really focused on writing etc â¦  vs scribus is reallyabout pixelperfect layouts.
<studiobot> <azbulutlu> e.g I use scribus primarily for visual portfolios and posters. which latex in general is not very useful for. on opposite end, for a long text heavy content scribus is not ideal as you need to place and divide text content into pages manually. :)
<studiobot> <azbulutlu> closest equivalent actually is libreoffice. :)
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks, @azbulutlu, what do you think about adding it for 19.10 to the seed?
<studiobot> <azbulutlu> its not my place to decide. :) but it is a useful tool :)
<studiobot> <Eickmeyer> @azbulutlu [its not my place to decide. :) but it is a useful tool :)], I was only asking for an opinion since I value your input.
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Carla 2.1 might land with an AVB backend.
<Eickmeyer> Oh, I'm sorry. Out of context. It'd be Jack2's next version.
<OvenWerks> Carla with avb doesn't make sense, jackd2 does
<OvenWerks> There was a talk at LAC and someone has created an avb backend for jackd2 so it is just a matter of adding it.... and making it useful
<OvenWerks> The version they are using is 6sample buffering which eats cpu like crazy (according to one of the creators I was talking to)
<OvenWerks> This makes sense as just using jackd at 16/2 starts pushing things too.
<OvenWerks> This makes me wonder is this is part of Motu's problem with their AVB boxes.
<Eickmeyer> It seems to be more of a pull request at this point, but it's looking good.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2019-03-28
<astraljava> So what is this studiobot thingie constantly relaying people's messages?
<Eickmeyer> astraljava: It's a bridge to Telegram.
<astraljava> Oh, right! Thanks :)
<Eickmeyer> Everyone: Beta build (20190326.1) is marked as ready. I didn't see anything that wouldn't pass.
<OvenWerks> cool
<Eickmeyer> The only real issue I found was bug 1822134, but I've got someone on that.
<ubottu> bug 1822134 in Ubuntu Studio "Ubuntu Studio Installation - Black Text on Dark Gray" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1822134
<OvenWerks> So sit and wait for release then?
<Eickmeyer> Apparently the materia theme doesn't play well with Ubiquity.
<Eickmeyer> Yeah, pretty much.
<Eickmeyer> Just a lot of testing.
 * Eickmeyer did a thing: http://ubuntustudio.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/1fe8/ubuntustudio_disco_dingo_1080.jpg
<OvenWerks> My son keeps telling me our dog looks like a dingo (she is a malinois mix)
<OvenWerks> Anyway, That is fine as a backdrop if you like, you have my vote/ok/agreement/whatever.
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Okay. I don't know if I can upload it now, but I can definitely add it to the beta announcement.
<OvenWerks> I thought "artwork" had quite a late freeze
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: I'll have to double-check that. You might be right.
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Not so sure. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DiscoDingo/ReleaseSchedule
<OvenWerks> Looks like it is past. I think it was step 21: UI freeze
<Eickmeyer> Might be able to get a UIFe.
<OvenWerks> I am not the one to ask though
<Eickmeyer> Yeah. I'm in the proper channels.
<OvenWerks> I seem to remember that if it was one of our packages it could be updated quite late so long as it didn't take action on the main release team :)
<Eickmeyer> I just asked the main release team. We'll see what happens.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2019-03-29
<studiobot> <Eickmeyer> http://ubuntustudio.org/2019/03/ubuntu-studio-19-04-disco-dingo-beta-released/
<astraljava> Eickmeyer: That background pic looks cool! What is it? :D
<OvenWerks> astraljava: It is a stylized dingo (wild or feral dog from Australia)
#ubuntustudio-devel 2019-03-30
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: I learned that wallpapers fall under the same exception as the Ubiquity slideshow, so we're good.
<krytarik> Except that's untrue - Xubuntu had to file various UIFe bugs in the past because they were too late.
<Eickmeyer> tsimonq2: ^
<studiobot> <tsimonq2> Nope, I've uploaded wallpapers last min before
<studiobot> <tsimonq2> It's just artwork
<studiobot> <tsimonq2> UIF is for the functionality of the UI, not the icons
<studiobot> <tsimonq2> Especially the wallpaper
<krytarik> "Just artwork" means we could change themes last minute too then?..
<Eickmeyer> @tsimonq2: krytarik raises a good question. I'm mostly just curious, not that I have any intention of changing the theme this late in the game.
<studiobot> <tsimonq2> @krytarik [<krytarik> "Just artwork" means we could change themes last minute too then?..], Yes.
<studiobot> <tsimonq2> I've done it before :)
<studiobot> <tsimonq2> UI =/ artwork
<studiobot> <tsimonq2> As long as artwork doesn't regress UI, of course
<Eickmeyer> krytarik: Also, from my recent experience, themes aren't even subject to FFe.
<krytarik> Eickmeyer: Yeah, UIFe imo yes though - but I guess ymmv depending on the people involved.
<Eickmeyer> krytarik: vorlon, in this case.
<krytarik> I wouldn't think this is an issue in this particular case either though.
<krytarik> And yeah, the wallpaper does look great! :)
<Eickmeyer> krytarik: Thanks. :)
<Eickmeyer> Made it the default, too. Seemed appropriate considering this one is musically-themed (disco).
<krytarik> Well, let's see what comes up next cycle - otherwise it might be slightly misleading.. :P
<Eickmeyer> krytarik: That's why it gets changed back next cycle... or to whatever.
<krytarik> Edgy Elephant.. >_>
<Eickmeyer> We already had an Edgy. So... Evolving Emu.
<krytarik> Ugh, you are right.. :(
<Eickmeyer> Although, Eloquant Elephant does sound good.
<krytarik> Yep!
 * Eickmeyer calls it. Right here.
 * OvenWerks wouldn't want to change theme. Themes have code.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2019-03-31
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: I have jack detection working nicely with no extra threading of GUI delay.
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: I am working on adding backends (firewire and dummy) but could really do much better with a firewire device to play with. I think no one has a device we can test with for example.
<OvenWerks> with the backend switch, if the driver is not alsa, I pretty much have to set device to default (this assumes anyone has only one FW device hooked up) and the usb master has to be disabled as well. There are some other things that have to change such as the extra devices have to include whatever just was the alsa jack master. This may be a bigger change than I thought :P
<OvenWerks> The other problem is that in order for the FW backend to even work, kernel modules need to be changed. That is the user has to do so system work to even get that far.
<OvenWerks> The alsa fw module needs to be removed/blacklisted and the fw modules need to be loaded at boot too.
<OvenWerks> I am wondering if we should be worrying about backends at all. FW is for most purposes legacy at best while still being supported by alsa these days.
<OvenWerks> However, the few people who do use them have paid a significant amount for them (likewise for my delta66) and would like to keep using them till they croak. The alsa fw experience is not always great, mostly because the code from the FW project was ported into the alsa code without having the various boxes available for testing. So people still want to use the old drivers :P
<OvenWerks> So backend support will be rudimentry at best. Mostly an I hope it works solution. AVB may help me get it better, I don't know.
<OvenWerks> After more thought... I think I am trying to do the same thing in too many places. I think I will break the device list stuff out of init into it's own call so it can be called any time something changes in that regard. Those times are: at init. if the driver changes, if the master device changes, if the default output changes, if other devices are connected or disconnected.
<OvenWerks> I am working on the GUI first... I still have the daemon to do after that.
<OvenWerks> Oh, one more thing I don't know how to do (maybe cadence code will help?) is to check if the fw drivers are even there before allowing fw to be selected as backend
 * Eickmeyer wakes up and reads the backlock
<Eickmeyer> *lgo
<Eickmeyer> *log
 * Eickmeyer gets coffee
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Is there a specific config file we can make and throw into -default-settings?
<Eickmeyer> kernel module blacklisting is pretty easy from that perspective.
<OvenWerks> Ya blacklisting easy enough, but should we? My thought is that I hope for most people the alsa fw mod just works. The problem is that when it does just work, we don't hear about it. We only hear about the ones that don't.
<Eickmeyer> Then perhaps some documentation might be in order. 
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Do you think that's worth something in the release notes?
<OvenWerks> Not for 19.04 I think. To be honest do any of us know enough to to make a note that is worth while?
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Probably not. If it's for legacy hardware, I imagine they would find a way to make it work. If they do, then they just need to blacklist the fw modules themselves.
<OvenWerks> fw has never been plug and play I think.
<OvenWerks> It has always been a tinker's interface.
<OvenWerks> on the other hand, to get really good performance from USB interfaces takes some work too.
<Eickmeyer> Also, fw is dead anyhow, considering USB has far surpassed it. Despite Apple's best efforts, they eventually caved too.
<Eickmeyer> USB takes time, but the key is with the 1ms multiple.
<Eickmeyer> aka 3 buffers per period.
<OvenWerks> I think AVB/aes67 will be the same
<Eickmeyer> So then, we just need to pour our efforts into USB & AVB/AES67.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2020-03-23
<Eickmeyer> teward: https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntustudio-dev/ubuntustudio/+git/materia-gtk-theme
<Eickmeyer> Holup... pristine-tar didn't get pushed.
<studiobot> <teward001> you can still do that and I can still clone it down and then `gbp pull` it :P
<studiobot> <teward001> UNRELATED I figured out with gbp how to branch for other things too so yay
<Eickmeyer> Noice
<Eickmeyer> teward: pristine-tar data is now good.
<studiobot> <teward001> cool pulled it
<studiobot> <teward001> updating my chroots
<studiobot> <teward001> then build testing and lintianing
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: See PM when you get a chance.
<Eickmeyer> teward: How did it go?
<teward> got distracted
<Eickmeyer> hahahaha
<studiobot> <teward001> Eickmeyer: other than a policy violation locally (re: who signed things) all looks OK
<Eickmeyer> teward: Cool. We'll wait for the release team to clarify this. Think I should ping them again?
<teward> your call
<teward> they have a ton of stuff on their plate heh
<Eickmeyer> Well, if I don't it'll go ignored. And since it's a weekday... really we just need clarification on whether or not the FFe/UIFe is even necessary.
<studiobot> <teward001> yep well as i said your call ;)
<studiobot> <teward001> poke em if yo uwant
<studiobot> <teward001> i ain't telling you what to do
<Eickmeyer> teward: hehehe
<Eickmeyer> One week until beta freeze, it needs to get handled asap. I realize they're busy, but if we can take that one off their plate that would be nice.
<studiobot> <teward001> Eickmeyer: see I went an extra step and stabbed people lol
<studiobot> <teward001> that's where me being an [CENSORED] helps :P
<Eickmeyer> teward: Indeed. I'm probably too nice, though I have vented my frustration before.
<teward> indeed
<teward> i know sil was around though
<teward> so i'm just adding stuff to sil's list
<teward> 'course i have a DMB meeting later today so :P
<teward> i'm also prepping for that
<Eickmeyer> Well, it's a simple question. Just needs a yes or no. If yes, we'll leave it. If no, we'll close the bug and JFDI.
<teward> well, I will you mean :p
<teward> *yawns*
<teward> i need more coffee
<teward> *goes to make more*
<Eickmeyer> teward: I say JFDI. We'll close the issue. It doesn't have a big-enough change to any screenshots (I'm thinking Ubiquity here) to warrant a FFe/UIFe.
<studiobot> <teward001> ack
<studiobot> <teward001> Eickmeyer: Upload in progress
<teward> Eickmeyer: uploaded and accepted by the archive system
<Eickmeyer> teward: Thanks!
<Eickmeyer> huh, that migrated quickly.
<studiobot> <teward001> yes, it did
<studiobot> <teward001> because APPARENTLY it went right to ACCEPTED and not Needs Approval
<studiobot> <teward001> not sure if because CoreDev / DMB but heh
<Eickmeyer> teward: New package at https://launchpad.net/dragonfly-reverb. Lintian clean with caviats: had to use "Old Changelog:" from previous packager who used only French and was translated via Google Translate. The other one is no manpages, had to override since docs are online.
<Eickmeyer> Also pristine-tar is a repack with submodule contained.
<Eickmeyer> This will not be added to the seed until next cycle.
<teward> does this exist in Debian?
<teward> i.e. will there be any weird issues with downloads/etc
<teward> or merges
<Eickmeyer> teward: Negative. It was always in a different repo such as kxstudio.
<teward> ack
<OvenWerks> dragonfly is quite a new appliaction/plugin less than a year old I think
<Eickmeyer> 2017 is when development started.
<OvenWerks> wow, it has been that long.
<Eickmeyer> Current version is 3.0.
<OvenWerks> I think a lot of revision is due to it's use in calsical music
 * OvenWerks can't spell (type?) today
<Eickmeyer> That's the classical music from California, right/ Cal-sical?
<OvenWerks>  :)
<studiobot> <teward001> cloned down, running sbuild
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Craigbass is back, not sure what he did wrong this time. :/
<Eickmeyer> teward: ack
<teward> that's a lot of `g++: warning: ...  linker input file unused because linking not done` warnings...
<teward> fooey i accidentally ctrl+c'd
<Eickmeyer> woops.
<Eickmeyer> teward: I'm guessing the warnings might be a due to a gcc compiler version difference. That's the biggest error/warning issue I've seen lately.
<teward> maybe but that's something that may need to be looked at.  it's a warning not an error state
<teward> you confirmed this works yes?
<teward> (builds/works)
<Eickmeyer> Yes.
<Eickmeyer> Everything works as expected.
<Eickmeyer> teward: You wouldn't believe the compiler gymnastics I've had to do in Fedora to get things to build.
<Eickmeyer> gcc 10 is a pain.
<studiobot> <teward001> well looks like newer Lintian has some tags in it that I need to ignore
<studiobot> <teward001> so my sbuild config has adjusted accordingly
<studiobot> <teward001> lintian clean but checking thingsl ike copyright now
<studiobot> <teward001> NACK on licenses
<studiobot> <teward001> some bits are ISC licenses
<studiobot> <teward001> some bits are GPL-3+
<studiobot> <teward001> some are Zlib licenses
<studiobot> <teward001> some are LGPL-2.1+
<studiobot> <teward001> some are 'public-domain'
<studiobot> <teward001> and some are specifically gpl-3+ vs gpl-2+
<studiobot> <teward001> Eickmeyer: ^
<studiobot> <teward001> (so, incomplete copyright file)
<Eickmeyer> teward: Crap, I forgot to go through that. FML
<studiobot> <teward001> oh some are OFL-1.1 too (Open Font Licenses)
<studiobot> <teward001> yeah so
<studiobot> <teward001> https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/T2twFpkCCg/ is what i got
<studiobot> <teward001> `licensecheck -m --deb-fmt -r .` from the git root
<studiobot> <teward001> oh and some are explicitly GPL-3.0
<studiobot> <teward001> not 3+
<studiobot> <teward001> so you have a lot of copyright work to get done.
<studiobot> <teward001> so NACK as is
<Eickmeyer> I can do that. The stuff in dpf can be copied from dpf-plugins, believe it or not, so that'll save some time.
<Eickmeyer> teward: the stuff in dpf is a repack, which is probably why I missed it.
<studiobot> <teward001> yep
<studiobot> <teward001> when in doubt, Eickmeyer, use the licensecheck i specified above
<studiobot> <teward001> it LITERALLY scans files to ID if there's licenses defined in it already or not
<studiobot> <teward001> it requires manual review, yes. but
#ubuntustudio-devel 2020-03-24
<Eickmeyer> teward: Fixed copyright, give it a whirl.
<Eickmeyer> The biggest part was the dpf stuff, which I already had from the dpf-plugins package.
<studiobot> <teward001> I'll review but can you get someone on the archive team's assurances they will review?  they need to make sure it will get reviewed before next freezes and such
<studiobot> <teward001> I am not on the archive team so I cant JDFI for the guarantee of review
<studiobot> <teward001> because src+bin:NEW
<Eickmeyer> Sure.
<studiobot> <teward001> also NACK - incomplete licensing
<studiobot> <teward001> dpf/dgl/[files in directory not recursively] - ISC per licensecheck
<studiobot> <teward001> can you verify Eickmeyer?
<studiobot> <teward001> you have to document *every* file :P
<Eickmeyer> teward: I'm aware, it should've been in what was copied-over from dpf-plugins.
<studiobot> <teward001> it's not but eh
<studiobot> <teward001> the rest looks OK
<Eickmeyer> Also, just FYI: this is the part about debian packaging I absolutely hate. RPM packaging doesn't have this copyright requirement, they trust the upstream.
<teward> heh
<teward> thats where RPMs can have copyright problems :P
<Eickmeyer> And then, if asked, the finger goes to the upstream for being irresponsible.
<Eickmeyer> teward: Really, it looks like dpf/* needs to be ISC, but I have it as GPL-2 because dpf-plugins has that. So, that's something I need to fix in dpf-plugins as well.
<studiobot> <teward001> well it was OK'd previously so maybe that'll stay the same UNLESS the repack has newer DPF
<Eickmeyer> teward: No, I checked the dpf-plugins package and it's wrong there.
<studiobot> <teward001> ok then that needs updated next bump
<studiobot> <teward001> but not high priority if it's that far off.  (though i'm sure we could sneak it in for policy)
<studiobot> <teward001> if you fix it in both places I'll upload both
<studiobot> <teward001> NEW will need archive review, the other one I'll state we're fixing an error we just caught
<Eickmeyer> Rigght.
<studiobot> <teward001> (nobody'll care)
<studiobot> <teward001> (and if they do I'll say "I felt it necessary to upload" and handwave lol)
<studiobot> <teward001> they can yell at me if they want xD
<Eickmeyer> Exactly, it's pretty much a bugfix with an increment to 0ubuntu2 for dpf-plugins.
<studiobot> <teward001> yep
<Eickmeyer> teward: Both dragonfly-reverb and dpf-plugins changes are pushed, work your magic.
<studiobot> <teward001> bleh i lost the git link to dpf-plugins *goes to find*
<Eickmeyer> launchpad.net/dpf-plugins (duh)
<Eickmeyer> teward: ^
<studiobot> <teward001> i already found it ;)
<Eickmeyer> haha
<studiobot> <teward001> blah this is the one which i have to uscan to get the package >.>
<studiobot> <teward001> because pristine-tar has issues >.>
<Eickmeyer> OH yes. This one was weird.
<studiobot> <teward001> dpf-plugins upload in progress
<Eickmeyer> teward: ack
<studiobot> <teward001> 'cause that's bigger ;P
<Eickmeyer> Makes sense. More plugins.
<studiobot> <teward001> yep
<teward> um
<teward> rejected because 0ubuntu2 already exists in the archive
<teward> *checks*
<Eickmeyer> Wait... whut?
<teward> ahhhh it's doko's fault
<teward> dpf-plugins (1.3-0ubuntu2) focal; urgency=medium
<teward>   * No-change rebuild for libgcc-s1 package name change.
<teward> let me fix that
<Eickmeyer> Yeah, he did that with most of our packages without bothering to commit to git. smdh
<teward> well
<teward> he like me
<teward> don't update git repos for *upstream* locations for ncrbs
<teward> (no change rebuilds)
<teward> i'll do the changelog merge
<Eickmeyer> I got the vernacular, but the git repo in this case isn't the upstream part.
<teward> *shrugs*
<teward> unless you're using git-ubuntu and a few other things
<teward> it doesn't get autoimports
<teward> the repository's versions sit in a different location
<teward> so for all intents and purposes
<teward> this is the 'source' VCS for the package data
<teward> but not the repos' VCS
<teward> https://git.launchpad.net/dpf-plugins/tree/debian/changelog - merged
<teward> doko literally did this yesterday lol
<Eickmeyer> Just pulled locally, looks good.
<teward> yep
<teward> i'll rebuild and push
<Eickmeyer> I really wish he'd tell me for stuff my name is on. I'm not that hard to reach.
<teward> so
<teward> i'm going to talk to the release team who has the release bot
<teward> and try and set up a Python hook equivalent bot to see the uploads by whom, etc.
<teward> try and figure out how they do it
<teward> and apply one for here
<Eickmeyer> Sounds like a plan.
<teward> but that's another long-term project
<teward> in the mean time i'm just going to slap doko around :p
<teward> (not really)
<teward> (I need to be in peoples' good graces lol)
<teward> Eickmeyer: -0ubuntu3 tagged and upload in progress
<teward> thank you `gbp` for teaching me some tagging knowledge/fun
<Eickmeyer> teward: Perfect, thanks.
<Eickmeyer> hehe
<teward> also thank you Debian for showing me `gbp` which is **fun**
<teward> makes it real easy to handle the import, etc. I do for my packages
<teward> I'd set up NGINX locally for it
<teward> but I am a lazy SOB
<Eickmeyer> hehe
<teward> BUT it's useful for vmfs6-tools and xca
<teward> because for xca, it existed already in Debian
<teward> and i needed to just gbp import it from debian snapshots
<teward> then updated from there
<studiobot> <teward001> again, thank you Debian for the assists :P
<studiobot> <teward001> you use a hybrid workflow of the tools gbp refers to to do the pristine-tar, etc.
<studiobot> <teward001> i just use gbp straight :P
<Eickmeyer> Yeah, I guess I do things the hard way.
<teward> -0ubuntu3 uploaded and accepted
<Eickmeyer> GG
<teward> Eickmeyer: typo in d/control of dragonfly-reverb, fixed locally will commit
<Eickmeyer> There was bound to be a typo. *facepalm*
<teward> i can't force a retag though
<teward> lets make a deal
<teward> how about we leave the tagging of versions in the repos to me upon upload
<Eickmeyer> I can force a retag.
<teward> ok
<teward> wait what
<Eickmeyer> I know why it won't work.
<teward> i have no upload rights
<teward> *stabs you*
<teward> yeah maintainer is you and not Studio Dev
<teward> then I can delete push and retag xD
<Eickmeyer> Now you can.
<teward> apparently not
<Eickmeyer> I made that repo 23 hours ago.
<teward> still perm denied
<Eickmeyer> Wait... whut?
<teward> so it may need time to apply
<Eickmeyer> Ah.
<Eickmeyer> Probably give it 10.
<teward> yep
<teward> *spends 10 minutes making vanilla hot cocoa*
<teward> still permission denied but i'm lazy.  going to wait the full 10
<teward> if it still doesn't work
<teward> i'll poke #launchpad to see if they need to rejigger things
<studiobot> <teward001> nope still getting denied Eickmeyer
<Eickmeyer> smdh
<studiobot> <teward001> not sure what's up there
<Eickmeyer> Very odd.
<studiobot> <teward001> ANYWAYS
<studiobot> <teward001> you can change it yourself
<Eickmeyer> Facts.
<studiobot> <teward001> fix the Provies -> Provides in the control file
<studiobot> <teward001> and force retag
<Eickmeyer> You mean just the tag, right?
<studiobot> <teward001> yeah update the tag
<studiobot> <teward001> as well as the typos in debian/control
<Eickmeyer> Yes, got that.
<studiobot> <teward001> and poke #launchpad asking them to take a look at perms
<Eickmeyer> teward: pushed and retagged.
<studiobot> <teward001> W: dragonfly-reverb source: syntax-error-in-dep5-copyright line 277: Continuation line outside a paragraph (maybe line 276 should be " .").
<studiobot> <teward001> debsign failure
<studiobot> <teward001> you have a space before a license blurb in this that makes it error
<studiobot> <teward001> W: dragonfly-reverb source: missing-license-paragraph-in-dep5-copyright gpl-3 (paragraph at line 6)  <â when that's fixed
<studiobot> <teward001> Eickmeyer: ^
<Eickmeyer> teward: I see.
<teward> Eickmeyer: you want to fix those or do you want me to fix the typo?  I don't ahve the gpl-3 license text at my system right now
<Eickmeyer> teward: You don't need the full text since it's in in /usr/share/common-licenses. :P
<Eickmeyer> But I've got this.
<studiobot> <teward001> ack
<studiobot> <teward001> it was a warning I usually just yell at em
<studiobot> <teward001> but you should at least make a note the full text is in there (and it at least needs a License: declaration in the copyright file)
<Eickmeyer> Take a look (pushed, retagged), teward.
<Eickmeyer> " On Debian systems, the complete text of the GNU General Public  License can be found in `/usr/share/common-licenses/GPL-3'." <--standard text
<studiobot> <teward001> works for me
<studiobot> <teward001> running and letting the system determine if there's any other lintian issues
<Eickmeyer> If you've read debian/copyright license files as much as I have you'd recognize the text.
<studiobot> <teward001> yep
<studiobot> <teward001> yep, i recognize that
<studiobot> <teward001> i'm just tired :)
<Eickmeyer> hehe
<studiobot> <teward001> LGTM going to upload shortly
<Eickmeyer> Sweeeeeeet.
<studiobot> <teward001> this one is larger heh
<studiobot> <teward001> once this is done i'mma start making revisions to my networks
<Eickmeyer> It's not as many plugins, but it is fancier in terms of code.
<studiobot> <teward001> yep
<studiobot> <teward001> uploaded and sitting in NEW now
<Eickmeyer> Sweet.
<studiobot> <teward001> Eickmeyer: ^
<Eickmeyer> teward: Looks like dpf-plugins wasn't the only package doko messed with.
<teward> this doesn't surprise me
<teward> Eickmeyer: I may end up just tacking a watchdog script/program onto the -changes lists
<teward> and then have a grep for the packages we want to monitor and then spit here
<teward> but i'm lazy :P
<teward> still need the full set of packages though
<Eickmeyer> The only ones I've found so far were ardour, lsp-plugins, and carla.
<Eickmeyer> Yeah, I might be able to work on that list today.
<Eickmeyer> teward: You had previously done a testimonial at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Eickmeyer/PPUApplication2, perhaps you feel like revising it now?
<teward> Eickmeyer: I create tesimonials new each time
<teward> so :P
<teward> you are missing a Testimonials section vs. Coments but meh
<teward> *goes to finish some work first*
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: We still have that bug in -installer where it fails during installation of "python3-rdflib".
 * OvenWerks guesses he should dl an other flavour ISO to try. Probably just need an extra " or ' somewhere
<Eickmeyer> Probably. I'm filing it as a bug officially so we can get this figured out.
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: is thgere any particuolar flavour this is known to be a problem on?
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: All.
<Eickmeyer> It happens whenever python3-rdflib is called in as a dependency.
<OvenWerks> hm zsync is not multithreaded
<Eickmeyer> Bug 1868855 for reference.
<ubottu> bug 1868855 in ubuntustudio-installer (Ubuntu) "Ubuntu Studio Installer GUI fails during installation of python3-rdflib" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1868855
<OvenWerks> It says I am at 51%
<Eickmeyer> Which iso are you zsyncing?
<OvenWerks> kubuntu
<Eickmeyer> Ah.
<OvenWerks> I may move to a Studio over Kubuntu for 20.04
<OvenWerks> xfce has a small team and so moves slowly... on the other hand... it is the applications I use, not the desktop :P
<Eickmeyer> Yeah. bluesabre knows all about that.
<OvenWerks> first thing I notice about the kubuntu ISO live boot: it does a forced media check to make sure the person actually downloaded the whole ISO image (and printed to the media too)
<OvenWerks> not a bad idea
 * OvenWerks is creating some space on his HD
<Eickmeyer> Yeah, I have no freakin' clue how to implement that.
<Eickmeyer> The ISO check, that is.
<OvenWerks> kubuntu's installer is different in lots of ways...
<Eickmeyer> It's just the Qt version of Ubiquity.
<Eickmeyer> They're pulling a Lubuntu and switching to Calamares after the LTS. We could do that, but then we'd completely lose the package selection during install.
<OvenWerks> but somehow deals with odd size partitions better... that is using a partition with the size it already has does not tell you it will resize
<Eickmeyer> Believe it or not, tsimonq2 has told me from the start that Qt desktops are much easier to deal with than GTK ones.
<OvenWerks> there only used to be kubuntu that qualified... and at the time plasma had .... issues
<Eickmeyer> Plasma 4 was a PITA.
<OvenWerks> I may play with lq after lts
<Eickmeyer> LXQt?
<OvenWerks> Anyway time to get my wife off to work (essensial services)
<Eickmeyer> Yep. Stay safe.
<teward> Eickmeyer: bother me tomorrow for a testimonial if you need one
<teward> i'm not in an awake enough state atm
<Eickmeyer> teward: Go to sleep, no hurry.
<OvenWerks> kubuntu has Thunderbolt settings.... does that mean linux supports such things? (audio devices?)
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: where is the "correct" place to DL installer from?
<OvenWerks> Is apt up to date for that?
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: sudo apt install ubuntustudio-installer
<Eickmeyer> Yes.
<Eickmeyer> apt replaces apt-get for the most part, and is functionally identical.
<OvenWerks> Wow it sure has a lot of deps...
<Eickmeyer> That has a lot to do with needing ubuntustudio-controls installed for ubuntustudio-system to be available and to bring in jack because we don't have a way to present an apt-initiated dialog box in -installer.
<Eickmeyer> This was something we worked on months ago.
<OvenWerks> Ya, I remember that part
<OvenWerks> I am installing one ittem at a time
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: this is a pain.... first install problem shows up... add a debug line, remove all packages... works fine.
<Eickmeyer> That's disappointing.
<OvenWerks> python3-rdflib was not removed
<OvenWerks> here is the line: /usr/lib/python3/dist-packages/rdflib/plugins/memory.py:354: SyntaxWarning: "is" with a literal. Did you mean "=="?
<OvenWerks> It appears that the package has an error
<OvenWerks> Still we should be able to handle that
<OvenWerks> The problem is that the line has many " in it
#ubuntustudio-devel 2020-03-25
<OvenWerks> The real problem is that I use the string as a list
<Eickmeyer> Ah. Anything we can do about that OvenWerks? (sorry if I've been unresponsive, I've been wrestling with my own issues)
<OvenWerks> I am thinking to just chop off anything more than 30 or 50 char in the string before I use it as a list
<Eickmeyer> A workaround could be installing python3-rdflib as a dependency of -installer, though that would just make it "not our problem" and be a hack at best.
<OvenWerks> If we do that... the same kind of problem will come back and bite us later
<Eickmeyer> Exactly. Instead we should just fix the string issue.
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: I created a short string (50 char) for the three operations that use the string as a list
<OvenWerks> I was able to install python3-rdflib with no error
<Eickmeyer> Perfect. If you want, go ahead and push it and I'll test it here.
<OvenWerks> I will but need to save the file to a partition I can deal with after reboot :)
<Eickmeyer> Ok
<OvenWerks> hmm kid3-qt is in the audio production menu instead of in the utilities submenu
<Eickmeyer> Well that's odd.
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: ubuntustudio-branding-common is ok for kde?
<Eickmeyer> It sure it. It will change your grub and plymouth theme to the ubuntu studio ones.
<Eickmeyer> it sure is*
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Basically it's safe for all DEs. The only one that isn't safe for all DEs isn't in that list.
<OvenWerks> I thought that was the case
<OvenWerks> kid3-qt probably changed the name of their desktop file :P
<Eickmeyer> Wonderful. Well, that's a -menu edit.
<OvenWerks> it is: /usr/share/applications/net.sourceforge.kid3-qt.desktop
<OvenWerks> instead of kid3-qt.desktop
<Eickmeyer> I'll work on that after dinner.
<OvenWerks> And I thought everyone was dropping sourceforge
<OvenWerks> I think I should get rid of all the ??%[working] lines  :)
<OvenWerks> but that would be a feature not a bug fix
 * OvenWerks goes off to check on the turkey (tastes just like chicken)
<Eickmeyer> Usually anything that's still on sourceforge hasn't seen a commit in a few years. 20 to be exact. (exaggeration)
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: I did the change and uploaded it straight to focal.
<OvenWerks> Ok
<OvenWerks> installer needs a workout... umm fix the change log before too long though
<OvenWerks> I lowered the short line length again to 40 because there was another problem
<OvenWerks> (similar)
<Eickmeyer> Oh, wow.
<Eickmeyer> If the changelog is really bad, Debian has a built-in workaround to make it so that most of the changelog is just there for historical purposes. It's as easy as adding a line that says "Old changelog:" with no whitespace line afterwards.
<OvenWerks> its just the first line so it can be released not bady wrong. I upped the version but you may wish to revert before testing
<Eickmeyer> I'll check it out when you're done.
<OvenWerks> should be done
<Eickmeyer> Ok. I'll pull it and check out the changelog before I do anything else, otherwise the build system will be angry.
<Eickmeyer> changelog looks fine, but as the uploader I'll have to replace your signature line, but that's normal.
<OvenWerks> ya that too. I just used dch cause I knew it would need a new paragraph
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Launchpad's build system is being painfully slow tonight for some reason.
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Bad news, it happened again but with a different package. While installing pitivi, this happened: https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/VsRP3NPR36/
<OvenWerks> So still not short enough maybe.
<Eickmeyer> Perhaps.
<Eickmeyer> I will say it made it further.
<OvenWerks> It's wierd that I can put a "print" statement in there and most of them just don't show.
<OvenWerks> I guess I will have to do some more looking.
<Eickmeyer> Ok
<bashfulrobot> Eickmeyer: Curious - Do you by chance have a wiki on how the individual components of Studio are setup? Sometimes it would be nice to follow the work you and the team have done on some of the individual components (say something like Jack, etc) for use in other flavours. I see your work as a great reference. ð¤
<Eickmeyer> !ubuntustudio-controls | bashfulrobot: We have the wiki, but really we make it so simple nobody much to set-up if they use this
<ubottu> bashfulrobot: We have the wiki, but really we make it so simple nobody much to set-up if they use this: Ubuntu Studio Controls is the application through which audio is configured in Ubuntu Studio. It configures Jack, sets the CPU governor, and ensures the user has realtime audio permissions. For more info, see !jack and https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuStudio/UbuntuStudioControls
<Eickmeyer> nobody has much to set-up *
<Eickmeyer> Most of our focus is on Controls.
<Eickmeyer> Everything else is just inclusion or packaging.
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks, teward: We have another problem. Apparently bug 1851346 is OUR problem now, and nobody is willing to help us. I'm about ready to start throwing tables with this "it's your problem, fix it" attitude we're getting from Foundations, especially this late in the game.
<ubottu> bug 1851346 in ubuntustudio-live (Ubuntu Focal) "Ubuntu Studio 19.10 Installer Causes Wanted Programs to be Removed" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1851346
<Eickmeyer> And I have no idea what I'm doing. I converted ubuntustudio-live to git.
<teward> code plz
<teward> otherwise i'mma just clone it down the old school way
<teward> looks like xnox weighed in
<Eickmeyer> teward: launchpad.net/ubuntustudio-live
<Eickmeyer> This is something I've never touched before.
<bashfulrobot> Eickmeyer: Thanks. I'll dig in. Its something I wanted to see about getting operational on my own machine. ð
<Eickmeyer> !ubuntustudio-installer | bashfulrobot: If you want to use budgie
<ubottu> bashfulrobot: If you want to use budgie: Ubuntu Studio Installer is an app that can be used to add Ubuntu Studio's benefits to an existing Ubuntu (or official flavor) installation, or add additional packages. For more info, see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuStudio/UbuntuStudioInstaller
<Eickmeyer> Though, is slightly broken atm.
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks is working on that.
<bashfulrobot> YEah - I do not want all the apps. Just certain components. Or can you select which options you want?
<teward> Eickmeyer: i think i need to ask ubiquity pros if they know any way to dump debug data from the plugin, etc.
<teward> because i want to *literally see* what the plugin is doing
<teward> i just don't know ubiquity well enough
<teward> unrelated i'm starving so food time
<Eickmeyer> bashfulrobot: Yes, but ubuntustudio-controls comes with it.
<Eickmeyer> You can select which metas you want.
<Eickmeyer> teward: Get food, but yeah, it's hard to tell. Basically the problem is described in the bug.
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: is it possible to install the applications directly rather than with metas?
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: I don't think that's the way Ubiquity works.
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: our iso is populated with metas and then copied to the install medium
<Eickmeyer> Right, but it installs as metas.
<Eickmeyer> I'm working on one of the ubiquity devs in #ubuntu-devel right now if you want to chime-in.
<OvenWerks> so if only parts of a meta are installed the meta has to not be installed
<OvenWerks> I should be working on installer...
<Eickmeyer> Yeah, work on installer. I'll worry about ubiquity, maybe enlisting teward if he has time (do you have time?). Seems juliank is done for the day.
<teward> i'm pretty busy and don't know enough about installer/ubiquity
<Eickmeyer> Seems anybody that does doesn't really want to help. :/
<Eickmeyer> stgraber wrote the plugin and is likely not to respond.
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: maybe installing the metas with --no-install-recommends? (at the end of installing or as part of one of our other packages)
 * OvenWerks reinstalles another flavour to test new -installer
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: juliank thinks he has an idea, but it's too late in the day for him.
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: I'll be awaiting your fixes for -installer. I'm working on a bugfix hydrogen update that trebmuh alerted me to.
<Eickmeyer> teward, RikMills: New hydrogen beta2. No bugfixes, no new features. https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntustudio-dev/+git/hydrogen
<Eickmeyer> It's ready, lintian clean.
<RikMills> great :)
<RikMills> Eickmeyer: build in a ppa for me to grab?
<Eickmeyer> RikMills: Have at it: https://launchpad.net/~eeickmeyer/+archive/ubuntu/ppa/+packages the arm builds are still doing their thing, but whatev.
<RikMills> Eickmeyer: why is that a ubuntu3?
<Eickmeyer> RikMills: Because I had some failed builds in my PPA.
<teward> *downloads code, does his tests*
<RikMills> Eickmeyer: so change to ubuntu1 and upload?
<Eickmeyer> RikMills: If I do that it errors.
<teward> let me handle it
<Eickmeyer> teward has it.
<RikMills> it won't error in the main archive
<RikMills> can safely be reset to ubuntu1
<Eickmeyer> It won't error in the main archive, but it will error in my PPA.
<Eickmeyer> Yes. But, teward has it handled if you want to go back to whatever.
<RikMills> ok
<Eickmeyer> RikMills: Thanks for being so willing! :)
 * RikMills goes back to an 80 source package FFE
<Eickmeyer> RikMills: oof
<teward> heh
<teward> Eickmeyer: do you need it build tested or does it just work?
<teward> and is it ready for upload?
<Eickmeyer> teward: It just works, ready for upload.
<Eickmeyer> Bugfix, no new features, lintian clean, even had a copyright error that I fixed because upstream changed a filename. :P
<teward> running my tests anyways
<Eickmeyer> Have at it.
<teward> after this i'mma go and handle some changes - gonna set up my system on my business class network's wifi heh
<Eickmeyer> Fancy.
<teward> 'cause that's faster :P
<Eickmeyer> Well, duh.
<Eickmeyer> It should be for how much you pay for that.
<OvenWerks> installed menus ok. so now trying the whole works
<Eickmeyer> I'll test after you do.
<OvenWerks> it'll be a while... I am at 6% install. It says 1 hour remaining...
<Eickmeyer> I'll go take a nap.
<Eickmeyer> j/k, got too much to do.
<teward> Eickmeyer: doesn't block, but may want to fix in future.  I: hydrogen source: unused-file-paragraph-in-dep5-copyright paragraph at line 21 - I: hydrogen source: unused-file-paragraph-in-dep5-copyright paragraph at line 67 - I: hydrogen source: wildcard-matches-nothing-in-dep5-copyright */ladspa.h (paragraph at line 67) - I: hydrogen source: wildcard-matches-nothing-in-dep5-copyright src/plugins/wasp/* (paragraph at line 21)
<teward> uploading now
<Eickmeyer> Ah, so they changed stuff.
<teward> yep
<teward> uploaded/accepted
<Eickmeyer> Shweeeet. Thanks, teward.
<teward> if inquiries come from the release team you'll have to explain/justify
<Eickmeyer> Well, no new features/is a bugfix will be my answer.
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: installed all packages on fresh kubuntu install
<OvenWerks> will reboot so I can upload :)
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: ack
<OvenWerks> uploaded
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: I'll take a look momentarily.
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: It built rather quickly today, just waiting for it to publish.
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Success. I'll go ahead and upload/backport this.
<OvenWerks> fix changelog to released
<Eickmeyer> Well, it'd be "focal", but yes.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2020-03-26
<Eickmeyer> teward: I shot you some stuff on Telegram with the stuff to add to the packageset.
<teward> I'll look in the AM
<teward> Eickmeyer: emailed to devel-permissions requesting the package additions to the packageset
<teward> PM me your link to your application
<teward> for rights
<Eickmeyer> teward: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Eickmeyer/PPUApplication2
<teward> already dug it up and put a testimonial down
<teward> also refer to devel-permissions archive of messages
<Eickmeyer> teward: Interesting, I'm subscribed to that but didn't get a message.
<teward> those're delayed sometimes ;)
<Eickmeyer> I wish we could tear postman out and replace it with something better.
<Eickmeyer> Postorius is so much better.
<Eickmeyer> teward: Not sure if your message took? https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/devel-permissions/2020-March/thread.html
<teward> bleh
<teward> i'll send again later
<Eickmeyer> heh bummer
<Eickmeyer> Hey RikMills - I know you're working on a huge FFe, but if you get a chance, do you think you'd be cool with throwing a comment or testimonial on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Eickmeyer/PPUApplication2 ? I'm trying to get the Ubuntu Studio packageset (finally).
<RikMills> Eickmeyer: ok. I will try to in the next few days. My 80 source FFe is working it's way through proposed. I have another 60 package one to do though :/
<RikMills> KDE is a b***h
<Eickmeyer> RikMills: Oof, best of luck. I don't envy you, I hate doing FFes.
<RikMills> I am used to them now. not sure if that is good or bad!
<Eickmeyer> RikMills: For you, that's an every-6-month thing due to the unfortunate Plasma release timing.
<RikMills> Eickmeyer: luckily release-team have said they can't sensibly review them, so have delegated authority to approve Kubuntu FFes to me and Simon
<Eickmeyer> RikMills: Oh yeah, I think I saw something about you and tsimonq2 having super powers or something like that.
<RikMills> just pragmatism from the r-t really
#ubuntustudio-devel 2020-03-27
<sakrecoer[m]> @eickmeyer:matrix.org: got a message from Eylul requesting urgent Twitter access. Is this something you approve of?
<studiobot> <teward001> *pours salt on @Eickmeyer*
<Eickmeyer> sakrecoer[m]: Yes, we're talking right now! lol
<studiobot> * Eickmeyer peppers @teward001
<studiobot> <azbulutlu> *is very amused*
<studiobot> <teward001> *unleashes a flood of chemical compound H2O into the chat*
<studiobot> <Eickmeyer> Water. Yummy.
<studiobot> <azbulutlu> why is this conversation happening????? :D
<sakrecoer[m]> <Eickmeyer "å¾ ððððð ã»ããð¸ï¸ð´ï¸: Yes, we'"> In my records I have a trace of me sending you all access in a gpg encrypted file to you. Is the key on your launchpad still upto date?
<Eickmeyer> sakrecoer[m]: Yes, that's my GPG key. :)
<sakrecoer[m]> Ok I'm reeincryoting the file, meanwhile I can add you both to team on tweetdeck. Please remind me your handlers @eickmeyer:matrix.org azbulutlu
<studiobot> <azbulutlu> mine is eyluldogruel@twitter
<Eickmeyer> @sakrecoer[m]: I'm @Eickmeyer on twitter.
<sakrecoer[m]> @eickmeyer is now admin from the tweetdeck UI @eickmeyer:matrix.org
<sakrecoer[m]> after you recieve the email with the passwords, I'd very much like if you could change those passwords @eickmeyer:matrix.org
<sakrecoer[m]> You will recieve them in an encrypted text File attached to the mail. But I want and to be out of that security equation. Thanks
<Eickmeyer> @sakrecoer[m]Thanks. :)
<sakrecoer[m]> I'll gladly remain a contributor allowed from the interface. I just don't want to be master password keeper anymore
<sakrecoer[m]> This is NOT cool azbulutpleaee confirm reception of the mail and content @eickmeyer:matrix.org
<Eickmeyer> @sakrecoer[m] I have the email.
<sakrecoer[m]> Ok... What's not cool is the stress... Passwords should not be transmitted in stress
<sakrecoer[m]> Eickmeyer (@freenode_Eickmeyer:matrix.org): thanks!
<studiobot> <azbulutlu> huh?
<studiobot> <azbulutlu> ok set, one sec we will try to drag you to voice chat
<sakrecoer[m]> It was urgent and what not, "HALP. Now. Will nag again in an hour"
<sakrecoer[m]> Nobi don't have time for voice chat now
<sakrecoer[m]> Monday
<Eickmeyer> sakrecoer[m]: I received the email but no attachment.
<studiobot> <azbulutlu> we are sitting here and trying to help but we can only help if we know what is wrong
<Eickmeyer> sakrecoer[m]: Nevermind, found the attachment.
<studiobot> <azbulutlu> oh I got the invite (sorry we were waiting here while you were doing it)
<sakrecoer[m]> <studiobot "<azbulutlu> we are sitting here "> You don't know what's wrong? How would I know what's worng?
<sakrecoer[m]> You needed password urgently. You got it. If I can do anything else let me know.
<Eickmeyer> sakrecoer[m]: You're good. Thanks so much. :)
<studiobot> <azbulutlu> I got access,, which is what was needed to crosspost to mastodon. and erich got the admin so that when something like this happens again we don't need to bother you
<sakrecoer[m]> However, it has to be urgent otherwise I will go back to my duties.
<sakrecoer[m]> Perfect! :)
<studiobot> <azbulutlu> thanks set.
<sakrecoer[m]> Have a good evening everyone
<Eickmeyer> You too. :)
<studiobot> <azbulutlu> https://crossposter.masto.donte.com.br/
<studiobot> <azbulutlu> ah damn wrong link
<studiobot> <azbulutlu> nvm
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Are you around? I've got an idea I want to propose to you that @azbulutlu and I came up with.
<Eickmeyer> teward: I've got an entrely NEW package again, but this one isn't related to audio or necessarily Ubuntu Studio in any way.
<Eickmeyer> teward:  Quick question about licensecheck as I found a false license: the LICENSE.txt for this is clearly GPL-2.0+, but licensecheck is reporting it as LGPL. Are false positives known to exist?
<teward> potentially I will have to review whatever you put anyways :P
<teward> I have to view the code
<Eickmeyer> True. heh
<teward> but I am exhausted atm sooooo
<teward> bleh
<teward> details to PM or email please
<Eickmeyer> Ok. I'm still lintian-cleaning it.
<studiobot> <teward001> ack
#ubuntustudio-devel 2020-03-28
<studiobot> <azbulutlu> eickmeyer why is the default wallpaper the backup one?
<studiobot> <azbulutlu> ok I think I realize what happened but oh well...
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: What was that?
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: So, @azbulutlu and I were voice-chatting, and considering you are talking about going to Kubuntu + Studio on 20.04 for daily use, and she's already using Kubuntu + Studio, and considering I have better knowledge about how seed files work, why don't we just pull the trigger for 20.10 and switch whole-hog from Xfce to Plasma. Thoughts?
<studiobot> <teward001> (#FocusOn2004LTSFirstTHough)
<OvenWerks> ok
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: most of that would end up being your work though.
<Eickmeyer> Yep.
<Eickmeyer> @teward001 No problem in working on a little vision in the meantime.
<Eickmeyer> Can't even work on it until after GG opens.
<studiobot> <teward001> true
<studiobot> <teward001> i have at least 6 things for Server once GG opens heh
<studiobot> <teward001> heh GG!  GetGud!
<studiobot> <teward001> *shot*
<studiobot> <teward001> yes i'm still not caffeinated enough
<studiobot> <Eickmeyer> Or... Good Game?
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: it may cause difficulties with up grades...
<Eickmeyer> We'll just have to recommend clean installs. Lubuntu went through this two years ago.
<OvenWerks> Studio went through it from gnome2 to xfce
<studiobot> <teward001> OvenWerks: Release Notes entry dictating that "Upgrades from 20.04 to 20.10 or later are not supported due to the DE change.  Therefore, you must Clean Install for 20.10 and later to upgrade from 20.04."
<studiobot> <teward001> and this is gong to be a case for Lubuntu right now too - 18.04 LXDE 20.04 LXQt ERRNOTSUPPORTED
<studiobot> <teward001> :P
<Eickmeyer> Yep. Growing pains.
<Eickmeyer> Either way, it's nice to have people who have been there before to talk to about such moves.
<Eickmeyer> We'll go through the same thing 2 years from now with 20.04 > 22.04.
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: can we make sure the file to do the up grade does not work or just prints warning?
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: I'm not sure. That would be something the release team would have to work on with the software upgrader.
<Eickmeyer> teward: Any advice on that? ^
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: I remember before even though the release notes said not to do the up grade lots of people tried anyway
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Then you just tell them "Per the release notes, that's not supported."
<Eickmeyer> It might sound harsh, but that's reality.
<Eickmeyer> Either way, if we're going to do it, 20.10's release cycle is the perfect time because that gives us four cycles to get 22.04 LTS real smooth.
<OvenWerks> the problem being that the software updater puts up a button that says something like: A new release of ubuntu studio is available, Update now?"
<OvenWerks> I agree
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: True, but not for LTS releases unless the user specifically enables upgrades to regular releases. Again, this is something we'd have to talk to the release team about since they deal with software-updater.
<Eickmeyer> Also, Lubuntu has been there before very recently.
<Eickmeyer> tsimonq2: Are you even alive???
<OvenWerks> it's early saturday morning ;)
<Eickmeyer> It's past Noon his time and I haven't heard from him except on Telegram.
<Eickmeyer> teward has a good pulse on Lubuntu as well.
<OvenWerks> I need to try the "new" lubuntu too.
<studiobot> <teward001> yeah I regularly test Lubuntu
<studiobot> <teward001> in fact LXQt there made me spin LXQt on my Debian Unstable VM
<studiobot> <teward001> with tweaks :P
<OvenWerks> I was more worried you wanted to split -controls... that would have been work... for me :)
<OvenWerks> but I guess now we should base some of these things on Qt?
<OvenWerks> I want to take some time to revisit https://github.com/ovenwerks/midikb and switch from jackd based to alsa based and I guess I may need to update https://github.com/ovenwerks/mcpdisp to keep it from bitrot
<OvenWerks> Studio-controls needs to get up loaded (if Eickmeyer hasn't yet)
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: ack on -controls.
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Additionally, I don't think we need to switch anything to Qt. Plasma's handling of GTK is pretty seamless now.
<studiobot> <teward001> Eickmeyer: I think we'd have to coordinate with the Release Team
<studiobot> <teward001> but keep in mind that the upgrade process for the upgrade checker in < 20.04 may not be specific enough per flavor
<Eickmeyer> teward: In terms of software-updater?
<studiobot> <teward001> d-r-u for instance doesn't give a damn under the hood about the flavor only the release codename
<OvenWerks> That is one of the things I like about plasma, It tries to make the applications run well rather than the desktop.
<studiobot> <teward001> Eickmeyer: you have to address it in the software updater app AND `do-release-upgrade` on the CLI
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Agreed. It's well-optimized and dosn't try to take-over the app.
<Eickmeyer> teward: Ack. I won't bug the release team until after 20.04 releases, but it's good to keep in mind.
<studiobot> <teward001> probably should talk to them earlier like now before release
<studiobot> <teward001> because we dont want people to attempt updates and brick things
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: I'm showing Controls in the archives is the latest?
<Eickmeyer> Unless you had something to fix.
<OvenWerks> -controls is at release... there is work on the tablets part on my machine
<Eickmeyer> teward: Well, upgrading to 20.04 isn't the issue, so I'm confused. Upgrading FROM 20.04 would be the issue.
<studiobot> <teward001> durrr i'm tired :P
<studiobot> <teward001> you're correct :)
<OvenWerks> I think he was refering to lubuntu
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: No, he's referring to Studio. It's just a slightly-less-caffinated verson of teward we're talking to.. :)
<teward> ERR:NotEnoughCaffeine
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: In that case, there's nothing for me to upload.
 * OvenWerks is in the same state
<Eickmeyer> I'm on my second cup.
<OvenWerks> my coffe "cup" (container) is a 16 ounce so I may be as well...
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: In terms of the tablet stuff: Is this going to be more advanced than what Plasma carries?
<OvenWerks> I guess I should check that Probably not right now... 
<OvenWerks> right so it may be that is not needed
<Eickmeyer> That's kinda what I'm thinking, and what went through Eylul's head as well.
<OvenWerks>  (except for people doing studio over a flavour that does)
<Eickmeyer> Which is fair.
<OvenWerks> the one thing I want to do is add a fix for tablets that are supported by the kernel but not by xsetwacom out of the box
<Eickmeyer> That would be amazing.
<Eickmeyer> So, +1 on that.
<OvenWerks> I have filed a bug against the package that should install the file but have heard nothing back
<Eickmeyer> Can you throw me the bug number? It might be that a bug needs to be filed upstream in Debian to get any movement.
<OvenWerks> It would work by listing pad/stylus devices and the user can choose one and I can add a file to xstartup
<OvenWerks> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xf86-input-wacom/+bug/1857509
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1857509 in xf86-input-wacom (Ubuntu) "Missing digimend config file" [Undecided,New]
<Eickmeyer> Nope, not a Debian sync. The Ubuntu X-SWAT maintains that one.
<Eickmeyer> Although, the changelog is a DD (tjaalton)
<OvenWerks> I was just going to grab the device ID and add a file like /usr/share/X11/xorg.conf.d/50-studio.conf
<Eickmeyer> Well, that would be a decent workaround.
<OvenWerks> with a paragraph for each device the user has (some people have more than one
<Eickmeyer> I just subscribed the maintainer to the bug. It could be they weren't paying any attention.
<OvenWerks> The user would of course have to reboot after for x to pick it up
<studiobot> <azbulutlu> (sorry to interrupt but this is the known installer issue right? https://mastodon.eus/@PorrurenGrabatokia/103901740021263131)
<OvenWerks> that file should be a link normally added when the setup for the kernel is done (update-grub)
<OvenWerks> so first suspision is not a full iso download or not a full transfer to the install media
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: They were downloading from /pending not /current.
<OvenWerks> has this person run a media (cd) check from the boot commandline of the install media?
<OvenWerks> ok
<OvenWerks> I see lubuntu is also 64bit only.
<Eickmeyer> (/pending is always incomplete.)
<Eickmeyer> yep,
<teward> OvenWerks: Yes, Lubuntu is 64bit only now
<teward> they discontinued 32bit after 18.04 I believe
<teward> i forget when they did that though
<OvenWerks> same as everyone
<studiobot> <teward001> yep
<teward> no 32bit ISOs
<teward> there's still some 32bit PACKAGES
<teward> but
<studiobot> <teward001> yeah no 32bit ISOs anymore
#ubuntustudio-devel 2020-03-29
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: Re: Bug 1869552 There is already an effects submenu and an instruments submenu for standalone effex/instruments
<ubottu> bug 1869552 in ubuntustudio-menu (Ubuntu) "Audio Production menu clogged by lsp-plugins >=1.1.14" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1869552
<Eickmeyer[m]> OvenWerks: Yes, but it wasn't catching lsp-plugins.
<OvenWerks> That part I understand, the bug text said "A new submenu will have to be
<OvenWerks> created "
<OvenWerks> I was pointing out that one is already there
<Eickmeyer[m]> ^ Which is preceisely what i did NOT end up crating. :)
<Eickmeyer[m]> *creatign
<OvenWerks> more coffee
<Eickmeyer[m]> ERR:NotEnoughCoffee
<Eickmeyer[m]> ^ That.
<Eickmeyer[m]> Speaking of coffee, ignore those errors, I forgot to push before requesting build.
<Eickmeyer[m]> And that time I was building from the wrong branch. smh
<Eickmeyer[m]> If Beta freeze weren't tomorrow I'd take the day off. hangs head in shame
<OvenWerks> huh
<Eickmeyer[m]> In fact, if Beta freeze weren't tomorrow I'd do a FFe for lsp-plugins 1.1.15, but there's no way the release team would approve it this late let alone even pay attention.
<Eickmeyer[m]> Hence, backports.
<Eickmeyer[m]> OvenWerks: Also, had to point the icons for the audio utilities menu and the graphics utilities menu to a different icon as they were looking for icons that don't exist in hicolor, but might exist in an Xfce-specific icon. I'll refine it more today.
<OvenWerks> I guess in the long run we should make sure to have our own icons for all menus.
<Eickmeyer[m]> Which is precisely what I'm doing. We only have two missing icons.
<OvenWerks> good
<studiobot> <Eickmeyer> @azbulutlu The bug is Finally fixed. https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gimp/+bug/1803924
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1803924 in MyPaint "Gimp conflict with MyPaint" [Unknown,New]
<studiobot> <Eickmeyer> @teward001 A little advice here. MyPaint has been missing from the Ubuntu Studio seed for 2 years (since 18.10). Do you think I can sneak it back in now or should I do a FFe and hope that somebody will even look at it in time before Final Freeze? I mean, Beta Freeze is tomorrow.
<studiobot> <azbulutlu> @eickmeyer \o/ throws a party
<studiobot> <Eickmeyer> @azbulutlu The question is whether or not we can get it into the seed before beta freeze. I might JFDI, and apologize later.
