#ubuntu-manual 2010-05-31
<ChrisWoollard> goodnight
<humphreybc> ping flan, godbyk
<godbyk> humphreybc: pong
<dutchie> poor humphreybc being bullied in #python
<humphreybc> yep
<humphreybc> it's sad
<nisshh> humphreybc: why were you bullied in #python?
<humphreybc> asking for help with this file, http://paste.ubuntu.com/442079/
<humphreybc> no wait
<humphreybc> that's the wrong one
<humphreybc> this
<humphreybc> http://paste.ubuntu.com/442083/
<nisshh> whats so bad about that?
<humphreybc> dunno, apparently it's 6 year old level stuff though
<nisshh> ah
<humphreybc> they were just like "oh, that's easy, just add the defribilator to the combobulator and we'll skedaddle the doodle."
<humphreybc> I was like.... what!?
<nisshh> haha, they like doing that
<nisshh> yay!, just hit rev 100 on my app
<manualbot> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/revision/100 | http://bazaar.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual -r 100
<nisshh> bad manualbot
<nisshh> naughty manualbot!
<dutchie> humphreybc: i made your indentation consistent and it decided to work
<humphreybc> yeah
<humphreybc> it's working okay now
<humphreybc> dutchie, tell me how I can change this code so I can create multiple houses at different positions
<humphreybc>         self.ball_size = ball_size
<humphreybc> gahh
<humphreybc> http://paste.ubuntu.com/442078/
<humphreybc> it's really annoying me
<dutchie> using the x and y arguments would help
<dutchie> moment
<dutchie> it's been a while since I used Tkinter
<dutchie> humphreybc: what are the arguments to the create_rectangle/create_line methods?
<humphreybc> ummm
<humphreybc> rectangle is x0, y0, x1, y1
<humphreybc> where x0 and y0 is the point of the upper left corner, x1 and y1 is the point of the lower right corner
<humphreybc> not sure about line
<dutchie> humphreybc: http://paste.ubuntu.com/442098/ ought to do the trick
<humphreybc> what's all that stuff down the bottom?
<dutchie> make it run nicely as a script
<dutchie> not sure why i bothered with it tbh
<dutchie> the if __name__ == '__main__': trick makes the code run only if the script is run directly, not imported
<humphreybc> dutchie: so what's the root thing mean?
<humphreybc> and howcome this doesn't work? http://paste.ubuntu.com/442101/
<humphreybc> I removed the script stuff
<dutchie> humphreybc: a function called draw_house should draw a house, no more, no less
<dutchie> it shouldn't be creating its own root thingy
<dutchie> so i fiddled it to use a root that was passed in as an argument
<humphreybc> I don't understand what this root thing is anyway
<dutchie> i don't either, but then i haven't used Tkinter in years
<humphreybc> calling multiple instances of draw_house creates lots of different windows, one after the other
 * humphreybc is about ready to give up
<dutchie> is this your draw_house or my draw_house?
<humphreybc> lemme show you
<humphreybc> http://paste.ubuntu.com/442106/
<dutchie> that's because each time you call draw_house, you create a new Tk instance
<dutchie> humphreybc: is there some sort of united docs/manual/learning team meeting today?
<nisshh> dutchie: thats exactly what i asked humphreybc yesterday
<humphreybc> dutchie: ah, yes there is. I won't be there.
<nisshh> humphreybc: when i it?
<nisshh> is
<nisshh> humphreybc: ^^^^^^^^^^!!!!!!
<dutchie> http://doodle.com/pgabxqswksmgsx8g
<dutchie> 1600UTC
<nisshh> thanks dutchie
<nisshh> meh, midnight for me
<humphreybc> 4am my time
<humphreybc> sorry, IRC is playing up
<humphreybc> nothing happens and then all of a sudden everything appears at once about 2 minutes later
<nisshh> humphreybc: thats called lag
<humphreybc> WHY IS PIDGIN BEING A DICK
<nisshh> humphreybc: because empathy is better?
<humphreybc> don't be foolish
<humphreybc> pidgin (usually) rocks
<nisshh> meh, whatever, im just saying
<humphreybc> tell me what I'm meant to do here
<humphreybc> http://paste.ubuntu.com/442187/
<nisshh> linux-kernel-k9wu2ru32u3
<nisshh> oops
<nisshh> ignore that
<nisshh> :)
<nisshh> thats what happens when your typing and not looking at the screen ^^^^^^
<c7p> meeting in 5 min?
<nisshh> c7p: yea, where is it?
<nisshh> which channel i mean
<c7p> #ubuntu-meeting
<nisshh> right
<c7p> from what i see on ML agenda based on the blueprint: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/community-m-documentation-teams-collaboration
<nisshh> c7p: yea, and humphreybc cant be at the meeting, so i have no idea who is chairing it
<nisshh> or if its even still happening tonight
<c7p> i think Elizabeth chairing the meeting, but I'm not sure :/
<godbyk> I think so, too.
<nisshh> right
<nisshh> i have so many channels open here im getting confused
 * nisshh closes a few unused ones
<godbyk> Morning, IlyaHaykinson!
<ubuntujenkins>  /me has fixed his udev rule
 * ubuntujenkins has fixed his udev rule
 * IlyaHaykinson waves to godbyk 
 * dutchie has rediscovered his Game Boy Advance SP
 * nisshh still has his original nintendo ds
<nisshh> with a whopping 100Mhz cpu
 * c7p ah.. good old days of playing game boy with friends at the neighbourhood 
<nisshh> yea i had a gameboy color
<nisshh> go! pikachu!
 * IlyaHaykinson thinks back to his first desktop PC with an amazing clock speed of 4.77Mhz :-)
<c7p> hehe
<nisshh> iv actually got all the pokemon episodes on my hard drive here
 * godbyk remembers having a big switch to slow that puppy down so he could play games at human speed. :)
<nisshh> godbyk: lol
<c7p> nisshh: how many seasons ?
<IlyaHaykinson> godbyk: heh. yeah. the "turbo" button, eh?
<godbyk> IlyaHaykinson: Yep!
<godbyk> Talk about 'overclocking'! :)
<IlyaHaykinson> or its cousin, the "slowdown" TSR
<godbyk> TSRs!  Oh, man.. forgot about those!
<godbyk> I remember spending way too much time rearranging things in my config.sys and autoexec.bat files so that I could load more TSRs.
<thorwil> there seems to be a lack of pleia2
<nisshh> c7p: 12 seasons plus all the movies
<godbyk> thorwil: There does. And she's not logged into the server.
<c7p> nisshh: wow ! there are 12 seasons ... omg
<nisshh> yea, because of the newest games on dsi
<nisshh> heartgold and soulsilver
<thorwil> godbyk: btw, i once knew, but how does one look for a user on the server (xchat)?
<IlyaHaykinson> godbyk: EMM386 FTW
<IlyaHaykinson> thorwil: msg nickserv info pleia2
<godbyk> thorwil: I just ran /whois pleia2 and the server said no one was around by that name.
<thorwil> ty
<nisshh> c7p: thats 610 episodes
 * ubuntujenkins wonders what has happend
<nisshh> yea, what the hell is going on now?
<c7p> nisshh: :o have you watched all these ?
<c7p> nothing !
<nisshh> c7p: nope! iv watched about 80 episodes
<IlyaHaykinson> benjamin's not around either afaik
<nisshh> IlyaHaykinson: yea, he said he wasnt going to be here
<ubuntujenkins> ben isn't coming its 4am for him
<thorwil> i think Ben is getting old if that stops him now ;)
<nisshh> ubuntujenkins: hang on, he is being lazy, its 4am for me when we have meetings in here! :)
<nisshh> thorwil: no kidding
<nisshh> IlyaHaykinson: look whos here ^^^^
<semioticrobotic> unbelievable internet issues today
<semioticrobotic> was anyone able to make today's meeting?
<IlyaHaykinson> semioticrobotic: it didn't happen.
<IlyaHaykinson> none of the stakeholders were around
<semioticrobotic> IlyaHaykinson, no?
<godbyk> The only people who showed up where ubuntu manual team members.
<IlyaHaykinson> well, none of the docs-side people, nor the attendees of UDS
<semioticrobotic> even after pleia2's email?
<semioticrobotic> hmmm, I see
<semioticrobotic> well, that makes the last hour of network trouble I've had seem a little more bearable
<semioticrobotic> oh well.  thanks for the info, IlyaHaykinson
<daker> see you :)
<pleia2> so sorry about the meeting this morning
<pleia2> I ended up having too much going on this weekend, I was exhausted
<pleia2> (holiday weekend here in the US, made the schedule more difficult than I anticipated)
<godbyk> pleia2: No problem.  We can schedule another meeting soon.
 * pleia2 nods
<godbyk> I think Ilya and I are going to email some stuff to the lists later tonight, as well.
<pleia2> that'd be great :)
<godbyk> We've laid out what we think would be a good 'phase 1' for the project.
 * ubuntujenkins hopes soon is after the 15/6 that way i have finished exams :)
<godbyk> And that leads us to some roles we need to fill and decisions we'll need to make.
<pleia2> I just need to touch base with the docs folks re: mallard, then I think we'll be on the right track for -learning as well
<godbyk> Yeah, I have to look at mallard a bit more, but from what I've heard, it may not be the best choice for the manual project at least.
<godbyk> We're going to see what the docbook->mallard conversion looks like.
<godbyk> If that seems like a smooth enough translation, we may use docbook as the base and then translate from docbook to mallard and latex.
<pleia2> are there features which are missing that you'll need? or syntax problems?
 * pleia2 nods
<godbyk> Today I'm going to look at all the tags we're using for the manual and see if they exist in mallard, but I think the primary problem with our (the manual project) using mallard is that it's not designed for linear docs (like books); it's designed for topic-based help (like the system docs and yelp).
<pleia2> ah, gotcha
<godbyk> For the learning team, I'm not sure what kind of docs you're looking to write. So I can speak for you. :)
<pleia2> mostly what amount to handouts for students and teachers for a class outline and material
<pleia2> docbook may be more appropriate here too, plus it's a popular format, skills transferrable and all (something that made me shy away from mallard)
<flan> Yay for Docbook.
<godbyk> yeah, there are a lot of existing tools for docbook, also.
 * pleia2 nods
<godbyk> Instead of having endless discussions about it (with the 'I vote for x' and the 'me too's), I think we're going to propose docbook with mallard as an output format and see what issues people raise.
<pleia2> yeah, there have already been endless discussions
<flan> You might want to take that a step further and toss it into a community known to be filled with trolls.
<flan> They'll probably come up with really strange arguments that might actually affect us.
<flan> The question, I mean.
<flan> Posed as something you're just casually looking into.
<godbyk> flan: We'll be posting it to the manual, docs, and learning lists.  Hopefully, that'll draw enough attention.
<pleia2> there have been threads on the -doc list for months about what format to use
<pleia2> I'm quite sure they are going to go with mallard because that's what gnome went with
<flan> I mean something like the Gentoo forums.
<pleia2> if there's a way to output docbook into mallard I don't see a problem with learning and manual going with docbook
<pleia2> s/into/to
<godbyk> pleia2: Right. I still have to look into that, but I think it's doable.
<godbyk> In the end, the format shouldn't matter to most people because they'll be using a web-based editor to edit/write content.
<pleia2> yeah, but we do need to keep our core content creators happy (which I think is more likely if we use docbook)
<godbyk> True.
<pleia2> well, one of my projects for this weekend is painting some storage units, so I'm heading back to that now
<pleia2> thanks for taking the time to chat, sorry about about the meeting, I feel terrible
<pleia2> s/about about/again about
<pleia2> godbyk: did you see dholbach's email from this morning on -doc? maybe replying to that?
<pleia2> he seems mistaken in that it's a move from wiki to a format (right now it's wiki AND docbook), but he is getting the conversation started yet again
<godbyk> Yeah, I saw that.
<godbyk> I think the packaging team is looking to write a manual as well.
<godbyk> I remotely attended their UDS session when they were discussing it.
 * pleia2 nods
<ubuntujenkins> I would have liked a packaging manual about 4 months ago :(
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: no doubt!
<ubuntujenkins> I have learnt so much this year thanks to the team :)
<pleia2> ubuntujenkins: something more user friendly than the debian devel docs?
<pleia2> they are good, but it's kinda a steep learning curve
<godbyk> It seemed like manuals were all the rage at UDS.  A number of the sessions I eavesdropped on were discussing writing their own.
<zus> pleia2,  do you mind a quick pm?
<ubuntujenkins> pleia2: I may have read them, I read so much I think all of them are not simple enough for newer useres
<pleia2> zus: nope, that's fine :)
<zus> pleia2, ty one sec.
<pleia2> ubuntujenkins: yeah, they do seem to assume a level of expertise that I think a lot of newcomers don't have
<ubuntujenkins> I have been using ubuntu for about 2 years and got thrown in the deep end as far a programming goes which made it hard. Now i work on quickshot and the manual latex ppa
<pleia2> cool :)
<ubuntujenkins> pleia2: on the topic of quickshot flan and i sent this to the list https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-doc/2010-May/014801.html had the learning team got any thoughts/feed back on the teams plans?
<pleia2> ubuntujenkins: unfortunately I haven't had a chance to test out quickshot, but I'll put it on my list (thanks for the reminder) since I will probably need it relatively soon anyway
 * pleia2 has been pretty overwhelmed since UDS
<ubuntujenkins> yea I think we are aiming for a september release for the next version, it will be drastically differnet as the first one was done in 3-5 weeks. No rush i just thought i would ask
<ubuntujenkins> how quickly it gets done depends on personal work loadsetc
<pleia2> yeah, the learning team doesn't have a schedule tied to releases at this time since our focus tends to be on LTS and we release courses as we have volunteers to write/need them
<zus> i was wondering who to ask on uploading the ubuntu manual on a torrent site
<godbyk> zus: I think there's already a torrent.
<godbyk> zus: But in any case, you're certainly welcome to.  It's licensed as CC-BY-SA: http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/
<zus> godbyk,  yeah i was looking to upload something to a site i like to use for torrents.
<godbyk> I don't know anything about the current torrent.  One of the guys on the team stumbled across it and posted a link, but I haven't looked at it.
<godbyk> I'll try to find the link.
<godbyk> Here you go: http://thepiratebay.org/torrent/5550350/Getting_Started_with_Ubuntu_10.04
<zus> also i have yet to  read it as i just downloaded it for myself,...will there be a Kubuntu version....... sweet.
<zus> thank you all once again.
<godbyk> We're looking into a Kubuntu version.  It'll depend primarily on whether there's enough interest in writing one.
<godbyk> (That is, if enough people are willing to write one.)
<zus> call me! heheh
<zus> i'd love to help on that one
<zus> i realize as much as i read ubuntu and kubuntu are the same with just a different enviroment,  that diferent envirment did my head in the first few weeks of using it..
<zus> btw thanks for that link... does it cover art-work and music? (sorry for off topic)
<zus> nvm i found a link to the main page from the link posted... well im off to read the manual let me know about the kubuntu one...
<godbyk> zus: Enjoy!
<c7p> godbyk is there anything new from CC corp ?
<c7p> org*
<godbyk> c7p: Not that I've heard.
<c7p> ok
<c7p> topo finished the license-el.tex file, actually he added a paragraph in greek telling about the content of that section of the book, I'm sending it to you now
<godbyk> great -- thanks!
<c7p> np :)
<ubuntujenkins> night all
<c7p> night Luke
<c7p> night all
#ubuntu-manual 2010-06-01
<humphreybc> vish: ping
<nisshh> ubuntujenkins: hey, in case your still interested, im putting pytask through final testing before i release it thisarvo
<humphreybc> Initial draft of the new ubuntu manual website design: http://humphreybc.homeip.net/files/ump-index.png
<nisshh> humphreybc: thats much better than the current one
<nisshh> the strip up the toop kind of reminds me of launchpads top strip too
<vish> humphreybc: pong!
<humphreybc> hey vish :)
<humphreybc> I need some icons
<humphreybc> have a look at this, http://humphreybc.homeip.net/files/ump-index.png
 * vish looks
<ChrisWoollard> nice
<humphreybc> see the icons for the top nav bar, and the twitter icon down the bottom, and any more that I come across... they're just default shapes from photoshop. I want better ones.
<humphreybc> like boxee: http://boxee.tv
<vish> humphreybc: k , what is the sice that they are used in?
<vish> size*
<humphreybc> let me look
 * vish tries to think of a metaphor for "Get Involved"
<humphreybc> yeah, I actually stumbled across the puzzle piece
<humphreybc> it kind of works, "we need you to fit in" all that stuff
<humphreybc> about 32 x 32
<humphreybc> they have to be monochrome, about that shade of gray
<humphreybc> I'm trying to decide whether to replace the fading animation of each page of the manual with a larger image
<vish> humphreybc: righto, 32px . i'll get them done in a couple of days
<humphreybc> thankyou!
<vish> np.
<humphreybc> also, monochrome facebook, twitter and planet icons would be nice too :)
<vish> hehe , where do those go?
<humphreybc> not sure
<humphreybc> yet
<humphreybc> lol
<humphreybc> I'm still working on the bottom part of the site, going to try to make it into a "social" area
<vish> humphreybc: hmm ,any reason you avoided using orange?
<humphreybc> I originally tried making the top bar orange
<humphreybc> but I couldn't find a suitable colour combination to make the items in the nav bar stand out enough
<humphreybc> I'll keep playing, though
<humphreybc> I sort of want to use colour sparingly to attract to buttons and other important things
<vish> using that would be more consistent with other Ubuntu community sites , well the website team might already have templates
<humphreybc> Yeah. Part of me wants to make us look like the other sites, but part of me also wants to separate our team a bit
<vish> ;)
<humphreybc> Also, Quickshot is going to get its own site I think
<humphreybc> The program isn't going to be team specific - so it shouldn't be hosted on our site :P
<humphreybc> I have to chuck the ubuntu logo in there too
<humphreybc> still figuring out where to put those things
<vish> humphreybc: hmm , if it is hosted on lp , the homepage shouldnt matter
<vish> for quickshot^
<humphreybc> yeah, I think Quickshot deserves its own site though
<humphreybc> I want to attract more attention to it
<vish> oh..
<humphreybc> get more teams using it, etc
<humphreybc> as for the domain name, for now it can just be quickshot.ubuntu-manual.org or something crazy like that
<humphreybc> till we buy quickshot.org :P
<ubuntujenkins>  nisshh have you fixed your problem that you asked about in #ubuntu-app-devel?
<ubuntujenkins> I have an hour or two spare before i have to get back to revision
<ubuntujenkins> hmm nissh after reading #quickly i see what you mean
<ubuntujenkins> nisshh: when you make a package it looks like you make an older package as the titles of the columns are different
<ubuntujenkins> nisshh: you have an unusual set up for your branch or quickly has changed the way it does things. How have you done a 64bit build of the package. I have built one but can't do it for quickshot
<ubuntujenkins> o may be there is not a 64bit package i am confused
<ubuntujenkins> ?ppa > ubuntujenkins
<quickshotdevs> ubuntujenkins, please see my private message
<ubuntujenkins> nisshh: this is strange i can't work it out, I am going to lucnh now
<nisshh> ubuntujenkins: sorry, i was deep, in my "what the hell does this code do?" state, as far as i know it is not a 64bit package
<ubuntujenkins> yea for some reason i thought it was a 64 bit package but it is not
<nisshh> ubuntujenkins: also, i merged some code from rick that made the column names fully translatable and various other things, you will find that the branch has changed alot since you tried it only a few days ago.
<nisshh> ubuntujenkins: there are some strange problems going on with the ppa package at the moment
<ubuntujenkins> yea I have the new one now and i really can't work out why the package is not doing it properly
<nisshh> you have the package from my ppa, or from trunk?
<ubuntujenkins> I have tried both, and can't get the scrolling window working
<nisshh> if you run the code in trunk using, quickly run, then it works, but in package form it doesnt
<ubuntujenkins> yea, its so baffling
<nisshh> iv never come accross this issue before
<nisshh> iv been trying to get hold of someone who knows python really well all day but its been hard
<nisshh> everyone seems to be busy
<nisshh> didrocks was telling me to check that i imported stuff correctly and i did a bunch of tests in my python session but so far nothing is out of the ordinary
<ubuntujenkins> its crazy it makes no sense, what was added to make this work which revision?
<ubuntujenkins> this -> the sckrolling window
<nisshh> the scrolled window?
<nisshh> um let me see
<nisshh> was not long ago
<nisshh> revision 102 i think
<nisshh> ubuntujenkins: ^^
<ubuntujenkins> thats what i thought
<nisshh> all that was added was the glade object and 2 lines of code
<ubuntujenkins> its strange
<nisshh> and iv ruled out an lp build problem, i built the package locally and it stil did it
<ubuntujenkins> same
<nisshh> iv also fiddled with the ui files to see if it was a packing issue but thats not it either
<nisshh> i think ill need to ask rick how he added the scrolledwindow to the ui, how he packed it and such, that could be the issue
<nisshh> im also getting various other warning and errors, when i try and delete all the tasks at once
<nisshh> which doesnt happen in trunk either
<ubuntujenkins> it may be best to ask him, I can't understand what would cause it though.
 * nisshh is about ready to punch his screen in because of this :)
<nisshh> ubuntujenkins: hehe, i just joined #python and i dont even know what the hell they are saying
<ubuntujenkins> nisshh: those errors on delteing stuff is only in the ppa and the ppa has the old titles with no capital at the start of them. But its the same for local packages as well
<ubuntujenkins> quickly run works a dream, #python can be confusing
<nisshh> yes
<nisshh> ubuntujenkins: using the --verbose flag with the ppa package also shows up nothing
<ubuntujenkins> there is something crazy going on seriously
 * nisshh salutes Captain Obvious
<nisshh> iv checked and re-checked all my code, its all fine, i think the way to go may be to comment out that scrolledwindow code and go from there
<ubuntujenkins> nisshh: I don't think its the package its u and i
<nisshh> hmmmm?
<ubuntujenkins> we have both used old versions of pytask form "source" right. In a virtual mache your package works
<ubuntujenkins> *machine
<nisshh> huh?
<nisshh> you tried it in a vm?
<ubuntujenkins> The titles with no capital gave it away. ype works in vm
<ubuntujenkins> *yep
<ubuntujenkins> its got to be desktop couch
<nisshh> ah, could be
<nisshh> never thought of that
<nisshh> i know for certain that my pytask database stil contains old data
<nisshh> ubuntujenkins: do you think that if we delete the pytask database in our local couchdb's the package may actually work?
<ubuntujenkins> probably I am trying to work out exactly what to remove with out breaking other programs
<ubuntujenkins> whats the database called?
<nisshh> ubuntujenkins: if you browse your couchdb, pytask whole new database called 'pytask' just delete that
<ubuntujenkins> Apparently i don't have one I have lernid and gwibber etc
<nisshh> hmm, thats interesting
<ubuntujenkins> I think thats my fault i just deteled some other stuff
<nisshh> just hang on a sec im trying
<nisshh> yea, ok
<nisshh> still not working!!!
<nisshh> ubuntujenkins: notice the munted ui on the ppa package version?
<ubuntujenkins> munted?
<nisshh> hang on ill take a screenie
<ubuntujenkins> http://imagebin.org/99379 is my virtual box
<nisshh> thats right, thats exactly how it should work
<nisshh> look i mean
<nisshh> not what mine looks like though
<ubuntujenkins> brb
<nisshh> ok
<nisshh> ubuntujenkins: this is what mine looks like when i run the ppa package install: http://img52.imageshack.us/img52/6315/pytask001.png
<ubuntujenkins> same
<nisshh> ubuntujenkins: the only explanation that even makes sense is that we have old data on our machines
<ubuntujenkins> agreed
<nisshh> thats why it works on your vm
<nisshh> where the hell would that old data be though, i did a complete package purge for pytask on my machine
<ubuntujenkins> its not our users a different user account gives the same thing
<nisshh> right
<nisshh> so it must be data outside our home dirs then
<ubuntujenkins> thats my thinking
<nisshh> somewhere in /usr im guessing
<nisshh> thats where most of the pytask stuff gets put
<ubuntujenkins> I suggest we remove the package and try and find it
<nisshh> i agree
<nisshh> ubuntujenkins: aha! found it!
<ubuntujenkins> where
<nisshh> look in /usr/local/share/
<nisshh> there might be a pytask directory in there for you too
<nisshh> it contains the ui and icons
<nisshh> wow, ok thats not all
<ubuntujenkins> yes i have messed up couch.db
<nisshh> just did a locate in that directory
<nisshh> ubuntujenkins: so have i i think, its asking for user/pass for some reason
<ubuntujenkins> nisshh: have got the package removed still?
<ubuntujenkins> I still have "pytask" in /usr/local/bin as well
<ubuntujenkins> AAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRHHHHHHHHHHHHH the package is not installing the "pytask" bin file
<ubuntujenkins> luke-jennings@luke-jennings-laptop:/usr/local/share$ pytask
<ubuntujenkins> bash: /usr/local/bin/pytask: No such file or directory
 * ubuntujenkins should not have deleted that file
<nisshh> huh?
<nisshh> it should be, what revision are you on?
<humphreybc> what do you guys think about my new CV design? http://humphreybc.homeip.net/files/cv.png
<ubuntujenkins> I had the package uninstalled and deleted /usr/local/bin. big fail on my part. I am using the ppa package
<nisshh> ubuntujenkins: i think a local package install contaminates the clean environment that the ppa package tries to install too
<nisshh> humphreybc: nice, but not a good choice of picture if you ask me :)
<nisshh> rickspencer3: save us!
<ubuntujenkins> nisshh: it should not make a differnce which package is used
<nisshh> true
<humphreybc> nisshh: yeah, I'm thinking about choosing a slightly less crazy picture :P
<ubuntujenkins> hmm my computer is messed up the "pytask" file is in /usr/bin where is shoudl be
<ubuntujenkins> nisshh: I think you need to remove /usr/local/bin as well but then running "pytask" doesn't work but python /usr/bin/pytask does. I still get couchdb problems
<ubuntujenkins> brb
<nisshh> ubuntujenkins: right im ready to try again
<nisshh> here goes
<nisshh> humphreybc: yea :)
<ubuntujenkins> hmm couchdb appears to be messed up how can make a new database?
 * dutchie points out that humphreybc missed an apostrophe the line above "excellent english" on his cv
<ubuntujenkins> lol
<humphreybc> Ah, I looked into that. Apparently it's "Private Pilot Licence"
<humphreybc> for the official designation, no s at all
<humphreybc> cheeky bastard
<dutchie> :P
<humphreybc> okay, if you refresh, there's a less crazy photo and the grammar errors have been fixed :P
<nisshh> i see
<ubuntujenkins> I think the picture is worse :P
<nisshh> ubuntujenkins: if you run pytask from the trunk code it should automatically create one
<dutchie> now you look like a convict
<dutchie> oh, wait
<dutchie> :P
<nisshh> dutchie: lol
<nisshh> does a bit actually
<ubuntujenkins> nisshh: http://paste.ubuntu.com/442783/
<nisshh> humphreybc: dont you have any cv grade pictures of yourself???
 * ubuntujenkins should look at what he is clicking
<humphreybc> what do you classify as CV grade?
<dutchie> sensible?
<nisshh> ubuntujenkins: oh crap
<humphreybc> You mean, not smiling?
<nisshh> humphreybc: a picture that doesnt make you look like a criminal?
<dutchie> the photo on my cv was one of me taken at 00:15 on new year's day for a while
<dutchie> luckily, i never needed to use it
<humphreybc> I could do a collage of many pictures together...
<humphreybc> to appease everybody
<popey> i have never seen a photo on a cv before
<ubuntujenkins> I don't have a photo on my cv.
<popey> humphreybc: yours is the first
<popey> and i have seen zillions of cvs
<nisshh> popey: nope, i have a photo on mine
<humphreybc> my CV has always had a photo on it. Normally a big fat one on the front page.
<ubuntujenkins> brb restarting
<popey> nisshh: "nope"?
<nisshh> or did anyway
<humphreybc> nisshh: must be a southern hemisphere thing
<popey> It is the first I have seen, you cant disagree with that thanks
<nisshh> popey: ok, good point
<humphreybc> if I was an employer, I'd like to see my applicants, which isn't always possible in person
<nisshh> humphreybc: yes, we are unique arent we :)
<popey> why humphreybc ?
<popey> all of my last 5 jobs have been done over the phone
<popey> no interview ;)
<popey> well, telephone interview, no in-person
<humphreybc> So I can discriminate on age, race and gender? lol
<thorwil> popey: it's common in germany, but apparently unknown/discouraged in the US and UK. no clue about Canada and AUS
<popey> BZZZZT
<popey> :)
<humphreybc> just kidding :)
<nisshh> popey: what? thats unheard of in AU
<humphreybc> I dunno, I just think you can tell a lot from someone by looking at them. Call me all "don't read a book by a cover"
<popey> humphreybc: to be fair you dont have much experience of reading CVs :)
<popey> so you're not really best placed to judge that :)
<humphreybc> true
<nisshh> in humphreybc's case you can tell that he is grinning!
<popey> "we need an insane person for this job"
<popey> "he looks good!"
<humphreybc> hahah
<popey> :)
<nisshh> popey: hehe
<humphreybc> better than a depressed person
<humphreybc> or an emo
<humphreybc> lol
<humphreybc> EXCUSE ME WHILE I GO AND SLIT MY WRISTS AND SHIT
<humphreybc> yep
 * humphreybc is pleased Pidgin is working now
<popey> nisshh: in my line of work people rely on your CV, technical interview over phone and what others say about you
<nisshh> popey: thats interesting
<nisshh> ubuntujenkins: yay! it works fine now if i install from the ppa, i think it was old files messing things up
 * humphreybc is trying out photoshop's "save as PDF" thing
<dutchie> you are doing your CV in photoshop?
<humphreybc> 16 mb PDF later
<ubuntujenkins> nisshh: does removing it and then adding it again work?
<humphreybc> dutchie: yep
<dutchie> how delightfully insane
<humphreybc> evince is struggling under the load
<humphreybc> insane, why?
<ubuntujenkins> nisshh: yey I have sorted mine as well.
<nisshh> ubuntujenkins: i just removed every instance of pytask from my system except my trunk files in my home dir and reinstalled it from the ppa and it worked fine
<ubuntujenkins> same
 * nisshh shits himself in his happiness
<ubuntujenkins> lesson learnt don't use quickly files to install
<nisshh> ubuntujenkins: cool, so we know its not the ppa package i can now finally announce the new release
<nisshh> ubuntujenkins: no kidding
<ubuntujenkins> yep it was just us :)
<thorwil> humphreybc: does PS embed fonts, save vectors or principally turn text into bitmaps when saving PDF?
<humphreybc> thorwil: I *think* it embeds fonts, but I'm not sure.
<humphreybc> it doesn't just draw some jpg and slap a .pdf extension on the end
<thorwil> humphreybc: if it is the last, it's a very good reason not to go that way. all vectors or bitmaps would also explain why Evince struggles
<thorwil> humphreybc: try selecting and copy/paste text from the pdf
<humphreybc> I think evince just struggled with the large file size. It works fine if I reduce the quality a bit.
 * ubuntujenkins gets on with revision
<nisshh> ubuntujenkins: thanks for helping me out
<ubuntujenkins> no problem :)
 * nisshh starts writing up the release announcement for pytask
<humphreybc> thorwil: okay, no, it does the latter. selecting and copy/pasting text don't work
<humphreybc> thorwil: After playing with some settings, this the best compromise I've got for quality vs. file size vs. evince being able to open it without crashing: http://humphreybc.homeip.net/files/cv.pdf
<ubuntujenkins> nisshh: I don't know if you know but you can add your ppa by doing sudo add-apt-repository ppa:nisshh/pytask-releases
<nisshh> ubuntujenkins: i do thanks
<nisshh> much faster than using software sources :)
<ubuntujenkins> yep
<thorwil> humphreybc: hmm, i can select text in evince, but get garbage out. seriously, use illustrator, quarkXpress, indesign, oo writer, scribus or whatever else can generate pdf with proper text. will make you look more competent ;)
<thorwil> now if only inkscape could embed fonts ...
<nisshh> everyone: https://edge.launchpad.net/pytask/+announcement/5972
<humphreybc> thorwil: hahaha
 * ubuntujenkins the uni internet is fast an iso of ubuntu in a minute \0/
<edakiri> Recommendations for software to automatically produce Indices and Table of Contents in HTML documents?
<ubuntujenkins> edakiri: I think ours were done manualy or at least as far as i know.
<edakiri> ubuntujenkins: Here we had a discussion about various documentation systems before, so I am betting some person(s) know some tools.
<ubuntujenkins> yea sure, just giving my answer :)
<edakiri> thanks
<daker> hi @all :)
<daker> ubuntujenkins, the countdown begins :)
<ubuntujenkins> to what? :$
 * ubuntujenkins is confused
<daker> your exams
<ubuntujenkins> ooo I had my first one today, not sure how it went
<daker> my 1 training day :)
<ubuntujenkins> what are you training for?
<daker> PHP/MySQL
<daker> two months
<ubuntujenkins> nice even shinier websites :)
<ubuntujenkins> have fun doing it, I am just poping out be back soon
<daker> thanks :)
<artnay> any schedule to update website translations?
<daker> i'll update them right no6w for you artnay
<daker> now*
<artnay> daker: ok, thanks
<artnay> I'll continue translating the manual itself...
<ChrisWoollard> Speaking of translations. Is there any word on recovering the uk translations. Or do i have to do them again?
<daker> the manual or the website ChrisWoollard ?
<ChrisWoollard> the manual
<daker> oh you ask godbyk or dutchie :)
<godbyk> ChrisWoollard: I haven't heard anything. I'm guessing you'll have to retranslate.
 * ChrisWoollard bangs his head against the wall!
<ChrisWoollard> Ok then. If I re-translate what would stop me having to do it all again in the event of something else breaking!
<ChrisWoollard> ?
<ChrisWoollard> anyone?
<godbyk> ChrisWoollard: No idea.
<godbyk> ChrisWoollard: You can export the po file for your translation as a backup.
<daker> good ideo
<godbyk> Beyond that, I don't know what to tell you.  Launchpad's translations stuff are a bit of a mystery to me. :)
<ChrisWoollard> Ok. exporting the po file sounds like a good idea.
<ChrisWoollard> thanks
<ChrisWoollard> Next on the agenda is world peace. Can you do that one?
<godbyk> I'll add it to my TODO list. :)
<ChrisWoollard> As far as I recall, your agenda is very very long.
<ChrisWoollard> ping godbyk
<godbyk> ChrisWoollard: pong
<ChrisWoollard> Did i hear the other day that things were going to move to docbook?
<godbyk> ChrisWoollard: Well, there's a lot of stuff planned.  See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-support-and-learning-center for an overview.
<ChrisWoollard> Yummy, thanks.
 * ubuntujenkins is bored of revision
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: revision?
<ubuntujenkins> yea exams stopping me from doing quickshot work. Over in two weeks \o/
<ubuntujenkins> uni end of year ones
<ubuntujenkins> also means back to the most painfully slow internet connection.  I can do 700mb in 60 seconds here :P
<ubuntujenkins> its so fast the server i am getting it from is the restriction
 * ubuntujenkins is going crazy
<godbyk> heh
<ubuntujenkins> I aim to write the manual program alpha in three days and a beta in another 5. Its not that complex of a program tbh
<ubuntujenkins> after i finish that is
<godbyk> yeah.
<godbyk> never underestimate complexity, though. :)
<ubuntujenkins> get the whole team in on testing and as many people as we can find
<godbyk> things that seem simple when you're at the beginning of a project usually reveal their true complexity the deeper you get into them.
<ubuntujenkins> true I really want a download progress bar, like the file transfer type thing. That is probably the hardest part
<ubuntujenkins> alot of other stuff is in quickshot like reading files form servers etc
<godbyk> right.
<godbyk> as long as the file server gives you the Content-length http header, you can do that.
<godbyk> (assuming the API you're using tells you that info)
<ubuntujenkins> I don't know how quickshot does it tbh i need to learn that this release. I think a dictionary file of languages and links is all that is needed
<godbyk> the dictionary could reside on the server, too. then quickshot just queries that info from the server.
<ubuntujenkins> the dictionary is on the server I think the manual program should check for langauges that the manual is avalible in form the dictionary
<ubuntujenkins> *from
<ubuntujenkins> that way it is easy once a new langauge is released
<ubuntujenkins> I want to use this to continue my learning but I am sure flan will help if i ask nicely :)
<godbyk> I agree.
<ubuntujenkins> i also need to as the ground control guys how they detect if the interent is up. I think they do something like that at the moment
<godbyk> I think you can find out via dbus to networkmanager or something.
<ubuntujenkins> yea I don't wnat to use network manager because then what about people who use wicd etc. I have asked doctormo I am waiting for a reply. I will check out dbus
<godbyk> good point
<godbyk> there's surely some semi-standard method by now.
<ubuntujenkins> godbyk: whats wrong with this http://imagebin.org/99445 ? I wonder how long it take you to notice
<godbyk> well, it's not seeing your microphone/inputs.
<godbyk> and didn't you have multiple outputs before, too?
<godbyk> the UI could be improved.
<godbyk> lots and lots of buttons.
<godbyk> I have no idea what it's for
<ubuntujenkins> its more basic than that theres no way to close the window. I have no clue how to use jack
<ubuntujenkins> alt+f4 doesn't work
<godbyk> I noticed that, but figured there was a close button hiding in there somewhere. :)
<godbyk> here's how you close it: Press Alt+F2. Type 'xkill'.  Click on the window.  Closed! :)
<ubuntujenkins> there is not its stupid. After talking to you when you went over quickshot i spot so many errors :)
<ubuntujenkins> omg another window with no close button AAGGGGHHH
<godbyk> lol
<godbyk> It's kind of fun to run through an application and just point out all the flaws you notice. :)
<ubuntujenkins> i need to file a bug on this after exams
<ubuntujenkins> hmm starting jack stops my audio
<ubuntujenkins> I give up i am off to bed, night all
<c7p> (really big day ...) night all
<daker> godbyk, ping
<godbyk> daker: pong
<daker> how many downloads we got ?
<godbyk> haven't fixed the sql and haven't looked in ages.
<daker> oki
<daker> i need to make support for browsers, so i need to know the list of the most used browsers
<godbyk> From the urls table is looks like there are 88948 hits on http://ubuntu-manual.org/download/10.04/en_US/screen
<godbyk> Ah, I think you can snag that info from the google analytics page.
<godbyk> do you have access to that?
<daker> no
<daker> you have the access :)
<godbyk> let me set it up for ya
<godbyk> daker: what's your google email address?
<daker> adnane002@gmail.com
<daker> or adnane@ubuntu-manual.org
<godbyk> daker: okay, you should be set now.  go to google.com/analytics
<godbyk> log in (with your google login) and you can view the reports.
<daker> oki
<daker> thanks
<godbyk> daker: you should also be able to view other reports here: https://www.google.com/webmasters/tools/dashboard?hl=en&siteUrl=http://ubuntu-manual.org/
<daker> i can't
<daker> he tolds me that the site is not verified :s
<godbyk> daker: ah, for the second link (webmaster tools), you have to use your adnane@ubuntu-manual.org address, apparently.
<godbyk> I'll add your adnane002 address too
<daker> oki GA is working
<godbyk> daker: okay, adnane002@gmail.com should be set up for the webmaster tools now, too.
<godbyk> daker: you may have to go to https://www.google.com/webmasters/tools first to log in or something.
<godbyk> then ubuntu-manual.org should appear in your list.
<daker> ah oki
<daker> good night @all
#ubuntu-manual 2010-06-02
<humphreybc> ping flan, godbyk?
<godbyk> humphreybc: pong
<humphreybc> thank god!
<humphreybc> I need some help with python :(
<humphreybc> I have to have these last couple of labs done by the end of this week and i'm super stuck
<godbyk> I can try to help.
<godbyk> (Though I'm by no means an expert at python.)
<humphreybc> Have a look at this: http://paste.ubuntu.com/443040/
<humphreybc> I'm trying to take the code that checks whether the ball has hit the mit, and put it in its own function called distance_circles()
<humphreybc> I've done that already, but now I don't know how or where to call that block of code so the program functions normally again
<godbyk> where was the code being called from before?
<humphreybc> it wasn't, it was just chucked on the end of the move function
<godbyk> so call distance_circles from the end of the move function?
<humphreybc> tried that
<humphreybc> says it's not defined
<godbyk> did you call self.distance_circles()?
<godbyk> (remember your friend 'self'?)
<humphreybc> ugh
<humphreybc> of course, why didn't I put a self in front of it
<humphreybc> like everything else in the file...
<humphreybc> we need to have a skype call so you can explain all this crazy stuff to me
<humphreybc> okay, so that works now, but after I catch the ball for the first time, my "mitt" disappears
<humphreybc> no nevermind
<humphreybc> was just some random anomaly
<humphreybc> so now apparently I need to make the program quit when somebody reaches 10 points
<humphreybc> a new function?
<godbyk> what's it do now? just loop forever?
<flan> Still looking for help, humphreybc?
<humphreybc> flan: well, you could help me figure out how to store this stuff in a dictionary: http://paste.ubuntu.com/443078/
<humphreybc> So I'm taking my matrix as a list, grabbing each value and I want to insert it into a dictionary where the key is the location of the value in the matrix, and the value is literally the integer in that position
<flan> So [0][0] should be 3 and [2][2] should be 0?
<flan> Or are you looking for 0: 3, 8: 0?
<humphreybc> yeah, 0,0 should be
<humphreybc> 3
<flan> for (row, sub_matrix) in enumerate(matrix):
<flan>  for (column, value) in enumerate(sub_matrix):
<humphreybc> so the dictionary output should be something like, matrix = {(0,0): 3, (1,0): 1)} etc
<flan> That's a bit more readable than wrapping range() and len(). Faster, too.
<flan> After that, it's pretty much exactly what you just wrote.
<flan> sparse[(row, column)] = value
<flan> return sparse #at the end of the function
<humphreybc> = value will work?
<humphreybc> just using value?
<flan> If you used my forloop structure, yes.
<humphreybc> I have to use the range thing
<flan> Using yours, it'd be matrix[row][col].
<humphreybc> wrapping all that
<flan> Really? That's icky. :(
<flan> enumerate() is so much nicer.
<humphreybc> yeah, I know
<humphreybc> but we haven't learnt that yet so they'd know I cheated :P
<flan> Or, y'know, read the Python tutorial.
<flan> I'm pretty sure that's in there.
<flan> Okay, anyway...
<flan> (For such a small data-set, it doesn't really matter)
<flan> Going backwards will be a little more difficult, but not too bad.
<humphreybc> yeah
<humphreybc> so now I have to go backwards
<flan> I assume you haven't learned sorted() yet.
<humphreybc> we have, sort of
<humphreybc> lol
<humphreybc> it's alluded for us to "check it out" type thing
<flan> (It works like enumerate(), sorting a list of values as part of the iteration process)
<flan> (They're usually introduced together)
<flan> (As well as reversed())
<humphreybc> so how would I go backwards?
<flan> for ((row, column), value) in sorted(sparse.iteritems()):
 * flan uses naive testing.
<flan>  if row == len(matrix): #You declare this as [] at the start of the function
<flan>  column = []
<flan> else:
<flan>  column = matrix[row]
<flan> column.append(value)
<flan> #Fault-prone, but it's fine for this data.
<flan> #You should be able to improve on it, if you have time.
<humphreybc> and then return matrix?
<flan> Yeah.
<flan> iteritems() creates an iterator that steps through every key/value pair in the dictionary, returning them as a tuple.
<flan> sorted() will sort it, obviously, with the key being an implicitly orderable structure, given you you've declared it.
<flan> You're unpacking it in the for declaration, which is why you can access the values by name.
<humphreybc> hmm. It's returning an empty matrix, what am I doing wrong? http://paste.ubuntu.com/443086/
<flan> And then you're simply testing to see if the row-count (sorted in ascending order) needs an extra element to hold the columns.
<flan> Oh.
<flan> I forgot a step.
<flan> Right after column = [], add matrix.append(column).
<flan> Otherwise the column will just get garbage-collected and you'll get an exception.
<flan> Oh...
<flan> I didn't realize you actually had a sparse sample.
<flan> Lemme rethink this.
<flan> A lot.
<humphreybc> lol
<flan> I forgot what a sparse matrix was.
<flan> One problem is that the returned value was nested one level too deep.
<flan> But I need to revise some other stuff.
<flan> For padding.
<flan> I'll leave it naive for you to improve, though.
<humphreybc> who what huh?
<flan> http://stellvia.uguu.ca/~flan/sparse.py
<flan> Doesn't pad to three columns.
<flan> That's an easy exercise for the reader, if you think it's necessary.
<flan> (It just involves iterating over matrix and looking for rows with fewer than three values in them and appending enough 0s to fill everything)
<flan> (Assuming three is some kind of magic number)
<flan> It's also possible to make the code cleaner.
<flan> I recommend giving it a shot, if you can spare a little while.
<flan> It'll help you to understand more about iteration.
<flan> Did you get my link and associated commentary, humphreybc?
<nisshh> humphreybc: "We have a new yelp with a very clean interface that is using webkit and is ready for Mallard docs."
<nisshh> found that in a gnome-shell post in liferea just now
<humphreybc> godbyk: http://www.interesting.co.nz/resume.html
<humphreybc> embedded PDF down the bottom
<humphreybc> I painfully re-created the whole thing in open office writer
<godbyk> cool
<godbyk> can you make the scribd thing taller (so I don't have to scroll)?
<humphreybc> Notice how all the text is selectable and the hyperlinks work :P
<humphreybc> maybe, I'll have a look
<humphreybc> refresh, that's as tall as I can make it apparently
<godbyk> it's a bit better
<godbyk> google also has an embedded pdf viewer. might take a look at that, too.
<humphreybc> mmm
<humphreybc> could you check for any spelling/grammar errors? I can send you the actual PDF if the embedded one is painful
<godbyk> email me the pdf and I'll look it over
<humphreybc> okay
<humphreybc> done!
<godbyk> still no old-style figures.. bummer.
<godbyk> the website is a link, but the email address isn't.
<humphreybc> true
<humphreybc> there are old style figures in my phone number!
<godbyk> nope. they're lining figures.
<godbyk> in the object, instead of 'about something', be more specific.
<godbyk> 'about Linux' or 'about freedom' or 'about Ubuntu' or 'about chocolate cake' or whatever it is you're passionate about.
<godbyk> do you guys say 'think outside the square' instead of 'think outside the box'? weird. :)
<godbyk> your 'objective is to get a job'. go figure! :)  maybe some up with something better there.  (I hate writing objectives.)
<godbyk> if you're wanting to highlight your experience, I'd put that section first and then education.
<humphreybc> give me a font that I can use to make the numbers old style
<godbyk> for the computer web design prize, the years.. write '2007 and 2008' since there are only two.
<godbyk> Well, Linux Libertine will.
<godbyk> should 'prize' on that same line also be capitalized?
<humphreybc> Linux Libertine doesn't?
<godbyk> under the UMP section. change 'in Canonical' to 'at Canonical'
<humphreybc> I've tried Linux Libertine O, Linux Libertine and Linux Biolinium
<godbyk> it should. does OOo support opentype fonts yet?
<godbyk> try it in abiword real quick.
<humphreybc> I don't have abiword :P
<humphreybc> is it *that* important that the numbers be old style figures?
<godbyk> apt-get install abiword
<godbyk> there ya go.
<godbyk> :)
<godbyk> it's up to you.
<godbyk> it's your cv.
<godbyk> I'm just making suggestions.
<humphreybc> I think it looks okay
<humphreybc> :P
<godbyk> under omg!ubuntu!, the titles/positions should be capitalized (like all the others are)
<godbyk> have you interviewed key people in the community and at Canonical?
<humphreybc> well they're not in both roles
<humphreybc> but I've interviewed people from Canonical, and I've interviewed people from the community
<godbyk> cool. didn't know that.
 * godbyk is way behind on his rss feeds.
<humphreybc> I actually need to do some more, Joey's been pestering me
<humphreybc> I think I'll target Ivanka, mpt or Jono next
<godbyk> under achievements: computer web design prize.. capitalization is inconsistent with what you have above.
<godbyk> same comment about the years (write '2007 and 2008')
<humphreybc> yup
<godbyk> double-check the capitalization of the speech board thing.
<humphreybc> brb, keep suggesting things though and I'll change them soon :)
<godbyk> (I don't know what it should be.)
<godbyk> k
<godbyk> same with the flying scholarship
<humphreybc> it's actually "New Zealand Speech Board"
<godbyk> otherwise, it looks okay.
<godbyk> you don't use the serial comma, which makes me sad, but it's not wrong and you're consistent.  (so bonus points there)
<humphreybc> hahaha
<humphreybc> well, should I apply then?
<godbyk> what's the worst they can do, say no?
<humphreybc> heh
<humphreybc> done@
<humphreybc> done! *
<humphreybc> "Thank you for your application, support and interest in the Ubuntu project and Canonical. Â Due to the high volume of applications that we receive, we regret that we are unable to respond to all candidates individually. If you have not received any communication from us within 3 weeks of receipt of this mail, please assume your application has been unsuccessful."
<humphreybc> apparently Canonical take ages to get all the paperwork sorted once you get hired, some people I talked to at UDS said it took around 6 months!
<humphreybc> and David Siegel said it took 10 months for him to get a visa to move to London haha
<godbyk> wow
<humphreybc> ya
<humphreybc> anyway, I'm going to start walking home now
<ubuntujenkins> morning all
<edakiri> What are other channels where I might get good advice on software for managing HTML documents, especially creating indices and TOCs?
<nisshh> edakiri: what do you need help with?
<edakiri> nisshh: I wish to write all my documents in HTML. I am looking for Software that can create an Index, or Table of Contents, or perhaps 'site map' of the documents.
<nisshh> edakiri: hmmm, i dont know any software that can do that for you, although you could always just structure your html code so that it formats it as an index, TOC and such
<nisshh> edakiri: there are a whole bunch of html editors you can use, are you on ubuntu 10.04?
<edakiri> nisshh: Think of if you have many headings; a software that would find all the headings and treate a table of contents.
<edakiri> yes
<edakiri> treate --> create
<nisshh> edakiri: ah, i see what you mean, well, thats what we use Tex for in the ubuntu manual
<nisshh> edakiri: Tex does all the formatting and arranging for us so all we have to do is use tex commands for formatting and then write the content
<nisshh> edakiri: although tex usually just handles plain text
<nisshh> godbyk-android: ping
<nisshh> godbyk: ping
<nisshh> edakiri: ill get godbyk to help you out, hes out tex guru
<thorwil> edakiri: i know that there's one or the other html authoring framework that takes care of generating a toc, but i don't recall any names
<edakiri> nisshh: I do not want to learn another notation (tex) just for those purposes.
<nisshh> edakiri: sure, any particular reason you want to use html though?
<edakiri> nisshh: HTML must be supported as an ultimate destination format. I must be able to have all data types of HTML (I think of data term, unsorted list, code) at my disposal.  I have not found anything that produces good clean HTML. Open Office output I find insufficiently clean. HTML+CSS can represent all that I need, it is a matter of processing it.
<nisshh> edakiri: right, i know there are some tools for exactly this but i cannot remember what they are called
<nisshh> edakiri: it may be difficult finding a tool that will produce completely pristine code
<edakiri> I learned enough DocBook, but I found it mostly senslessly redundant to and different than HTML.
<nisshh> fair enough
<edakiri> I don't know Tex, but since it is only useful to me once it becomes, HTML I think it would be best I just stick with HTML.
<nisshh> sorry i cant be of more help
<nisshh> good luck anyway :)
<vish> godbyk: hmm , what was ben applying for?
<humphreybc> hey daker, did you see the new ubuntu manual site design I'm working on?
<humphreybc> I've only done the one page so far, and it's missing a couple of things, but I'm still working on it
<ubuntujenkins> humphreybc: have you spoken to mpt at all?
<humphreybc> ubuntujenkins: about Quickshot? Not yet, I've been trying to track him down for the last couple of days
<ubuntujenkins> kk, I was meaning about the manual program and where to store the manaul
<humphreybc> oh
<humphreybc> yeah, that's what I meant :P
<ubuntujenkins> thanks
<ubuntujenkins> we need a name for this program I don't liek calling it "the manual program"
<humphreybc> Ubuntu Manual Installer?
<humphreybc> Freakin' Sweet App?
<ubuntujenkins> lol, not sure on the word "installer"
<humphreybc> http://www.flickr.com/photos/gobiernodeguatemala/4656432029/sizes/l/
<daker> opps :)
<daker> back
<daker> yeah i saw them really good humphreybc
<dutchie> humphreybc: that's a very big hole
<humphreybc> that is. I have a couple of questions that I'm trying to answer. Why is it so round, what's at the bottom, why is it so dark randomly at the bottom and how fast do they fall away? (ie, time to escape?)
<ubuntujenkins> how deep is it?
<humphreybc> apparently 20 metres
<ubuntujenkins> wow
<humphreybc> help me answer my questions :)
<daker> Woww
<humphreybc> here's another one: http://pinoytutorial.com/lifebytes/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/Guatemala-Sinkhole.jpg
<ubuntujenkins> there is more earth/mud at the bottom of the hole
<humphreybc> so it doesn't go all the way through the earth? :P
<humphreybc> and I guess there is a house there too
<humphreybc> but at the bottom, could you walk around outside the radius of the hole on the surface, like, is it a big cave?
<humphreybc> http://pinoytutorial.com/lifebytes/guatemala-sinkhole/
<ubuntujenkins> I will go and have a look for you
<humphreybc> this one's apparently 100 meters deep
 * ubuntujenkins looks outside  :P
<humphreybc> http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5h9f2OfKr8ygFy00FuMUoDG689YBQD9G2SPD83
<humphreybc> "I can tell you what it's not: It's not a geological fault, and it's not the product of an earthquake," said David Monterroso, a geophysics engineer at the National Disaster Management Agency. "That's all we know. We're going to have to descend."
<humphreybc> WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO DESCEND!
<humphreybc> Wicked!
<humphreybc> The ONLY time when being a geologist is fun
<daker> did you know that you can play flash annimation without the flash plugin ?
<humphreybc> nope
<humphreybc> enlighten us :)
<daker> just with javascript + HTML5
<daker> http://smokescreen.us
<daker> here is a demo http://smokescreen.us/demos/intro.html
<humphreybc> holy mother
<humphreybc> http://stumbles.org.uk/John/rec/holes/Sinkhole,%20Guatemala.png
<humphreybc> it's like, over twice as large as the statue of liberty
 * humphreybc wants to drop a penny down and time how long it takes to hit the bottom, then do some physics calculations to figure out the depth
<humphreybc> The pit emitted foul odors, loud noises and tremors, shaking the surrounding ground. A rush of water could be heard from its depths, and authorities feared it could widen or other sinkholes could open up.
<humphreybc> It's alive!
<humphreybc> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:AlapahaRiver2002.jpg
<humphreybc> The whole river water flow goes into a sinkhole at the end
<daker> WoooWW
<nisshh> sinkaphobia = fear of falling through to the earths core
 * humphreybc is obsessed with learning about sinkholes
<nisshh> thats what bill gates has because he knows that linux will eventually open a sinkhole under redmond!
<dutchie> humphreybc: i'd noticed
<humphreybc> http://www.myspaceantics.com//images/myspace-graphics/funny-pictures/car-sinkhole.jpg
<humphreybc> http://www.floridapublicadjusters.com/images/sinkhole.jpg
 * humphreybc is into dams now
<dutchie> humphreybc: http://xkcd.com/214/
<humphreybc> lol
<humphreybc> why is it that China is usually number one for the "largest dam" or "longest bridge"
<humphreybc> this is awesome: http://www.mzungudays.com/Images/Chapters/ontheroadleg3/katse.jpg
<humphreybc> this is also awesome: http://chenzhen.files.wordpress.com/2007/08/donghai_bridge.jpg
<dutchie> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3e/Viaduc_de_Millau_1.jpg # i've been over that
<humphreybc> gnarly
<humphreybc> these things are freaky: http://www.greenbang.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/siemens-wind-turbines.jpg
<humphreybc> http://rene.seindal.dk/upload-kayak/2008/02/2007-08-14-171814.jpg
<dutchie> /topic Feats of engineering
<dutchie> *cough*
<humphreybc> haha
<humphreybc> http://wallpapers.ships-info.info/wallpapers/Knock_Nevis.jpg
<humphreybc> that's a mother of a ship
<humphreybc> that's a big truck: http://texaspurties.com/images/BiggestTruck.jpg
 * dutchie warms up the STFU humphreybc hammer
<humphreybc> OMG! http://www.myinterestingfiles.com/2008/09/worlds-smallest-man-meets-longest-legs-woman.html
<dutchie> do you not have anything else to do?
<humphreybc> sleep lol
<humphreybc> which I am going to do now
<humphreybc> I love the internet
<daker> hhhhhh
<humphreybc> right!
<humphreybc> goodnight!
<aquarius> rickspencer3, ping :)
<rickspencer3> hi aquarius
<aquarius> rickspencer3, have you actually created an LP project for the example program?
<rickspencer3> aquarius, no, I pushed it as a branch on lp:ubuntu-developer-manual
<rickspencer3> aquarius, don't forget, the sample app is for *instructional* purposes
<aquarius> yep, I agree. What makes you think I do not? :)
<rickspencer3> aquarius, well, your point about Jotty, and not wanting to maintain two tomboy-like apps
<rickspencer3> anyway, the sample app is there
<rickspencer3> I also pushed a bit of LaTeX, which I cargo culted from ubuntu-manual
<aquarius> it's more that I don't want to build an instructional app which cannot be made into a useful app by someone who wants to keep hacking on it. If we make a note-taking app, and then someone later on says "I'd like to make this app work with my U1-synced notes, how do I do that?" and the answer is "you have to throw away three quarters of the app and reimplement it to do that" then it shows the instructional app
<aquarius>  as hollow
<aquarius> do you think that we should build the whole sample app first and then decompose it into parts for each chapter afterwards? Or have many "apps" which are actually evolutionary stages in the development of one app?
<rickspencer3> uh
<rickspencer3> would it not automatically sync if you are using desktopcouch?
<rickspencer3> and in any case, most instructional apps are either recipe databases, or scribblers
<rickspencer3> it's normal for these to be added to in chapter after chapter, but without the expectation that it will turn into a "real" app
<rickspencer3> what we need to accomplish is convincing people that we have a platform where it will be fun and easy for them to create the apps that *they* envision
<aquarius> yes, but it won't sync *with* tomboy notes, and the notes won't show up in the U1 web interface, and you can't call the database "notes", and you'll need to invent a new and different schema for notes which rather goes against the "let's agree on data storage" principle of DC. :)
<rickspencer3> if delivering a "hollow" sample app accomplishes that, then that is fine
<aquarius> anyway, we're doing identica now :)
<rickspencer3> aquarius, I don't really care about tomboy
<aquarius> (I don't think you've pushed the latex)
<rickspencer3> aquarius, someone just metnioned this to me :/
<rickspencer3> otp, but I'll poke at it
<rickspencer3> aquarius, KerryHatcher, yeah, I pushed the branch, but didn't add anything
<rickspencer3> :/
<rickspencer3> bzr add, bzr commit ftw
<KerryHatcher> :)
<rickspencer3> should be there now
<rickspencer3> KerryHatcher, aquarius keep in mind, I know *nothing* about using LaTeX
<KerryHatcher> Same here ;)
<aquarius> dude, you know more than I do. :)
<rickspencer3> I copied the make file from ubuntu-manual, but I doubt it works
<rickspencer3> we are so screwed
<rickspencer3> :)
<dutchie> that makefile is quite heavily customised
<dutchie> ask godbyk about it
<aquarius> I disagree with you on urllib being the right way, though. I think it's OK for us because we have fast network connections :(
<godbyk-android> I'm just hopping in the shower, but I can chat about it when I get out.
<KerryHatcher> I think maybe a non-blocking with a loading screen would be ok
<KerryHatcher> that way there isn't a broken gui
<rickspencer3> aquarius, but what's the goal?
<rickspencer3> it's to demonstrate that you can quickly create a UI
<rickspencer3> if we throw asynch programming in people's face to *start* a *simple* app
<rickspencer3> we fail in a dramatic manner
<KerryHatcher> rickspencer, good point
<rickspencer3> perhaps we should go back to Jotty if asynch out of the gate is required
<rickspencer3> I do think it's interest that it's easy to create an aynch UI though
<popey> maybe it's a good lesson to show
<rickspencer3> so I would think the first change would be to add the gio call
<popey> "look how badly this deals with poor network connections, lets re-code it using gio"
<aquarius> what I'm thinking is that we don't make a big deal about it being async, we just say "this is the way to fetch URLs". We barely even have to mention that it's asynchronous. If it's more complicated to think that way then we need to provide better helper functions. So we're making opinionated choices not only about the technologies in the platform, but also the best way to use them
<rickspencer3> popey, exactly
<popey> it illustrates the "poor coding practice" with an example
<rickspencer3> it's not a "poor coding practice"
<popey> no, hence the quotes :)
<rickspencer3> it works fine for lots of cases
<rickspencer3> popey, ah, right
<rickspencer3> but I think showing that you can do it better, and do it better easily, is cool
<KerryHatcher> Yes
<KerryHatcher> very cool
<rickspencer3> so step 1, make a UI
<popey> but I can fully see the point aquarius makes, that we should teach the 'one true way' from the outset
<rickspencer3> mmm
<rickspencer3> let me look at the code
<rickspencer3> but I'm wondering if network programming is inherently too complex to get started for a sample app
<popey> i dont like learning from a book that tells me "here's how to do something." then in the next chapter "right, forget that, throw it away"
<rickspencer3> and a Jotty-like app would be better
<rickspencer3> popey, right
<KerryHatcher> we can't overwhelm from the beginning.
<KerryHatcher> I like your DVD lib app on youtube
<rickspencer3> hmmmm
<KerryHatcher> Stupid simple
<KerryHatcher> yet very usefull
<rickspencer3> KerryHatcher, thoughts about how we could add gstreamer and such to the dvd app?
<popey> networked apps open the gates to many more possibilities than "yet another notepad/library"
<rickspencer3> yeah
<popey> just my 2p, anyway :)
<rickspencer3> well, let me look at the gio code
 * aquarius grumbles at couchgrid not working. why's that, I wonder?
<rickspencer3> couchgrid not working?
<rickspencer3> wtf, that code is bug free
<aquarius> yeah, I must be doing something wrong.
<rickspencer3> lol
<rickspencer3> aquarius, pastebin?
<KerryHatcher> well it isn't that difficult to add a video panel to play out the video if it has been *backed-up* on the local comp
<aquarius> self.grid = CouchGrid("ubuntumanual", record_type=DENT_RECORD_TYPE)
<rickspencer3> maybe there are no records?
<KerryHatcher> I'm not sure about the practical use nor the ability of playing from DVD
<rickspencer3> and it is throwing a run time error because it can't infer keys?
<aquarius> nope, there are records; I've just checked in slipcover :P
<rickspencer3> Kerry, we could make it a book library
<aquarius> d'oh, I have to specify the keys
<rickspencer3> and then you could capture reading aloud snippets and store those or something
<KerryHatcher> Or pdf e-reading thingy
<rickspencer3> aquarius, it should infer the keys from the records
<aquarius> it doesn't, though :)
<rickspencer3> fudge
<KerryHatcher> I have a friend who has a ton of pdf books, he has asked about such an app
<rickspencer3> aquarius, could you please log a bug for me?
<rickspencer3> I need to fix that
<KerryHatcher> rickspencer3, what level of programer are we targeting? Someone who wouldn't know how to do "hello world" or just someone who wouldn't know how to do it in python + glade?
<rickspencer3> KerryHatcher, a novice programmer that has written code for another platform, like the web
<aquarius> You're expected to know something about programming, but not necessarily anything about the Ubuntu platform. We're not teaching people what a variable is. :)
<aquarius> http://paste.ubuntu.com/443442/ is the diff to add basic DC support. :-)
<rickspencer3> essentially, we won't try to teach Python, but we won't assume folks are gurus in anything
<aquarius> if we use gio then the app will start up and display dents instantly even if the network connection is slow, 'cos the dents are in DC :)
<aquarius> rickspencer3, adding a fetch_url function to quickly.helpers (or some similar name) would be cool, I think -- part of building an app on the platform will show us which bits in the platform could do with being simpler and give us the opportunity to fix them. :)
<aquarius> any preferences as to the name for quickly helper functions?
<rickspencer3> aquarius, I think that would go in quickly-widgets package
<rickspencer3> and should be bound to a subclass of progress box
<aquarius> ah cool. I wasn't sure whether it should go in there because it's not a widget
<aquarius> ooh, sneaky idea; so in order to fetch a URL you *have* to get the progress box. Clever.
<aquarius> and that's more good encouragement for people: they get the idea that when you do a network-y sort of thing, you should show what's going on
<aquarius> I thought quickly widgets was its own upstream project now? Is it still under https://edge.launchpad.net/quickly ?
<KerryHatcher> rickspencer3, aquarius  sweet. Well I'll be a good test dummy then ;)
<rickspencer3> aquarius, lp:quidgets
<aquarius> aha!
<KerryHatcher> I've been a web devel for years, just got into python. I've been learning my way though bug squashing & adding features to OggConvert
<KerryHatcher> AsynchTaskProgressBox -> Me likes
<KerryHatcher> rickspencer3, just tried to compile the prologue. No luck. I'll see if I can get a hold of someone who know LaTeX
<KerryHatcher> knows*
<rickspencer3> I have no idea what to do
<godbyk> Okay, I'm back now.
<godbyk> So what's up, rickspencer3?
<KerryHatcher> rickspencer3, where could I find a plan text version of the prologue?
<rickspencer3> uh
<rickspencer3> KerryHatcher, yeah, there isn't one
<rickspencer3> godbyk , so we want to build ubuntu-developer-manual the same way you guys build ubuntu-manual
<godbyk> okay
<godbyk> how far have you gotten?
<rickspencer3> I copied one of the chapters to get started using LaTeX
<godbyk> or should we start at the beginning? :)
<godbyk> 'kay.
<rickspencer3> the beginning is good
<godbyk> okay.
<godbyk> so if you want to start by stealing files from us, that'll work.
<rickspencer3> ok
<godbyk> you'll need the following files: tufte-common.def, tufte-book.cls, ubuntu-manual.cls, main.tex, and Makefile.
<rickspencer3> urk
<godbyk> just drop those files into the same directory to start with.
<rickspencer3> ah
<rickspencer3> just copy them over without modification?
<godbyk> yeah, for now.
<rickspencer3> ok
<godbyk> we can modify things in a bit.
<godbyk> do you know what the name of your first chapter will be?
<godbyk> I like to have each chapter's file(s) in its own subdirectory.
<godbyk> but it's not strictly necessary.
<rickspencer3> yeah, I copied that basic structure you guys have
<godbyk> okay
<rickspencer3> let me copy over the files you just mentioned
<godbyk> next, you'll want to edit the Makefile.
<godbyk> sure
<rickspencer3> godbyk it looks like this now:
<rickspencer3> rick@rick-desktop:~/Projects/developer-manual$ ls
<rickspencer3> main.tex  Makefile  prologue  revision.tex  tufte-book.cls  tufte-common.def
<godbyk> perfect
<rickspencer3> rick@rick-desktop:~/Projects/developer-manual$ ls prologue/
<rickspencer3> images  prologue.tex
<rickspencer3> ok
<godbyk> okay.
<rickspencer3> what's next?
<godbyk> so next, we'll edit the Makefile
<rickspencer3> ok
<godbyk> You'll see the CHAPTERS at the top
<rickspencer3> I've got it open
<godbyk> just remove any that don't exist
<godbyk> (so basically, everything except the prologue)
<rickspencer3> done
<godbyk> that's all you'll need to do in there for now.
<godbyk> next up, edit the main.tex file.
<godbyk> again, remove any \chapter lines that you don't have.
<godbyk> You'll also want to comment out the \setscreenshotmax line -- just put a % at the front of it.
<rickspencer3> hmm
<godbyk> Following so far?
<rickspencer3> so all the lines that start with \include that aren't prologue?
<rickspencer3> delete them?
<godbyk> yeah.
<godbyk> (sorry.. I said \chapter, but meant \include)
<rickspencer3> ok
<rickspencer3> I think I deleted that stuff that needs to be deleted
<godbyk> okay.
<godbyk> you need to comment out a few things: the \setscreenshotmax line, the \input{frontmatter/glossary-entries} line
<godbyk> change the \title and \author to whatever you like.
<rickspencer3> oh, right
<godbyk> comment out the half-title page stuff (starting with \makeatletter and ending with \makeatother)
<godbyk> comment out the \pdfbookmark and \frontcover lines.
<godbyk> and I think that should be okay now.
<godbyk> (you can pastebin it if you want me to give it a glance-over)
<rickspencer3> hmm, no pdf
<godbyk> there may be some things in the ubuntu-manual.cls file we need to take care of, too.
<rickspencer3> godbyk look about right: http://paste.ubuntu.com/443468/
<rickspencer3> ?
<godbyk> can you paste the main.log file?
<godbyk> rickspencer3: looks perfect!
<rickspencer3> there is no main.log :/
<rickspencer3> should I copy that over too?
<godbyk> oh.
<godbyk> nope
<godbyk> latex generates it when it tries to compile.
<rickspencer3> ah
<rickspencer3> make sense
<godbyk> if you run 'make', what happens?
<rickspencer3> should I check ubuntu-manual.cls first?
<godbyk> let's try to compile first and see what complaints we get.
<rickspencer3> oops, looks like I forgot to copy that file
<godbyk> (there's a lot of stuff in the ubuntu-manual.cls file, so we'll deal with those issues as we come across them.)
<godbyk> ah, that'd be helpful. :)
<rickspencer3> oops
<rickspencer3> got this error: /bin/bash: xelatex: command not found
<rickspencer3> I guess I need to install something?
<godbyk> yeah.
<godbyk> Is ubuntujenkins around?
<godbyk> He has the TeX Live 2009 stuff in a PPA (that's more recent than the packages that come with Lucid).
<rickspencer3> hmm, can't see what package xelatex is in
<godbyk> you'll either have to use the ppa or the upstream TeX Live.
<godbyk> the Lucid packages aren't current enough to compile our stuff
<godbyk> but xelatex would be in the texlive-xetex package (which, to reiterate, won't work).  :)
<godbyk> rickspencer3: http://ubuntu-manual.org/getinvolved/editors#install-tl2009 has instructions for installing TeX Live 2009
<rickspencer3> yeah
<rickspencer3> ok
<rickspencer3> godbyk what's the difference between the one on the web page and the one in the repos for lucid?
<godbyk> the one on the web page will have much newer versions of things than the one in the repos.
<rickspencer3> sorry dude
<godbyk> and we require some very-up-to-date packages.
<rickspencer3> I went ahead and tried it with the one in the repos
<godbyk> no skin off my back.
<rickspencer3> will take me a while to "OK Next" through this
<godbyk> it should work for the english version.
<godbyk> but it won't work for all the translations we have.
<rickspencer3> there was a problem there
<rickspencer3> give me 5 minutes to roll back and then install as you directed
<rickspencer3> ls
<ubuntujenkins> I am here
<KerryHatcher> ubuntujenkins, do you know about a PPA for Tex Live 2009?
<godbyk> installing from upstream is the best way to keep it up to date.
<ubuntujenkins> KerryHatcher: I do i made it :). Let me find the instructions, it only works on lucid atm
<godbyk> but if you *really* like the packages, you can try out ubuntujenkins' ppa.
<KerryHatcher> I really do :)
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: how much of a hassle is it to update your packages regularly?  what's involved?
<KerryHatcher> I'd be willing to help
<rickspencer3> wow, lots of texlive-* packages getting removed :/
<ubuntujenkins> well I just get the ones from debian and add them to the ppa. (debian is more up to date ) A few custom packages are in there for use. I have once built packages from source but they took a while
<ubuntujenkins> KerryHatcher: http://paste.ubuntu.com/443474/ is the ppa info
<ubuntujenkins> you are on lucid right?
<KerryHatcher> 10.04 = Lucid then yes (sorry I am always forgetting the names)
<ubuntujenkins> I am yet to test on older versions of ubuntu
<ubuntujenkins> I will look at updating them in the 2 weeks
<rickspencer3> godbyk I see this install is going to take a while
<ubuntujenkins> godbyk: The main problem I am going to have is my home internet is so slow and I am moving back there for my placement year
<rickspencer3> still on arphic
<ubuntujenkins> rickspencer3: is about 3gb of download
<rickspencer3> oh fudge!
<rickspencer3> 3g to write a manual?
<godbyk> rickspencer3: well, you can grab the minimal install stuff mentioned on the link I gave you.
<rickspencer3> godbyk will you be around in like 4 hours?
<rickspencer3> oops
<godbyk> then manually install the extra required packages.
<ubuntujenkins> thats whats so many people said, lots of complaints mostly translators.
<rickspencer3> I just clicked the big button
<godbyk> rickspencer3: yep.  I'm in the central US, so I'll be around for the next 12 hours.
<rickspencer3> kewl
<rickspencer3> I'm Seattle
<godbyk> though I may be afk for a bit while I get a haircut and run errands.
<rickspencer3> so just a tad earlier than you
<rickspencer3> godbyk thanks man
<godbyk> rickspencer3: no problem.
<rickspencer3> I'll let you know how it goes
<godbyk> rickspencer3: please do.
<ubuntujenkins> godbyk: have we/are we going to add any new fonts functions into the manual that I need to look into packaging?
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: I'm not sure yet.
<ubuntujenkins> ok, Are there any possiblties that i can grab the code for whilst at uni so i don't have to download them at home?
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: code for what?
<ubuntujenkins> latex fetures that are not in the packages or fonts etc
<KerryHatcher> ok so I just finished installing per ubuntujenkins
<ubuntujenkins> that was fast
<KerryHatcher> Got a nice fiber pipe
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: I think that the install-pkgs.sh script installs all the fonts we're currently using.
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: I'm not sure what you have and haven't packaged, so I don't know what's missing there (if anything).
<ubuntujenkins> I think I covered everything in there or a far as i know
<ubuntujenkins> fonts are easy to do if we need more
<KerryHatcher> So I can go follow http://ubuntu-manual.org/getinvolved/authors now with just the PPA?
<ubuntujenkins> yea you can get the branch and make a copy of the manual
<KerryHatcher> branching....
<KerryHatcher> O lulu FTW btw!
<KerryHatcher> I'll be ordering me a copy asap
<KerryHatcher> and maybe a few to hand out
<godbyk> cool. :)
<ubuntujenkins> try the code FREESHIP no idea if it still works
<godbyk> lulu is pretty handy.
<godbyk> on the front page of lulu.com it said there's free shipping this summer on orders over $19.95.
<KerryHatcher> sweet
<godbyk> brb
<KerryHatcher> so is there no en_us option?
<ubuntujenkins> the manual is only in en_us on lulu or anywhere at the moment
<KerryHatcher> If everything checks out okay, you should be able to run: make ubuntu-manual-LANG.pdf where LANG is the language code (see the po/ directory for a list of supported languages).
<KerryHatcher> I just saw en_GB and en_AU
<ubuntujenkins> to get en_us just run make
<KerryHatcher> I get an error when I compile it http://pastebin.com/yME6dLSr
<KerryHatcher> ok I'll try that
<KerryHatcher> O i just find it funny that I'm "compiling" a text document from source...  :)
<KerryHatcher> Running make, it is doing its thing it looks like
<ubuntujenkins> I think your error is po4a it is anoying, try make clean and then try doing the en_GB one again
<KerryHatcher> I don't really care about en_GB ;) I just thought that was my only option
<KerryHatcher> so it compiled, what now?
<ubuntujenkins> in the folder shoudl be a mani.pdf
<ubuntujenkins> *main.pdf
<KerryHatcher> got it
<ubuntujenkins> enjoy reading
<KerryHatcher> WOOT on a stick! I got it. Just the pro. I followed what you told rick and got it !
<KerryHatcher> Thanks!
<ubuntujenkins> we like to help
<KerryHatcher> Just pushed it to https://code.launchpad.net/~kerry.hatcher/ubuntu-developer-manual/trunk
<KerryHatcher> nice base to get started from!
<KerryHatcher> rickspencer3, you around?
<daker> hey guys
<daker> is launchpad working for you?
<ubuntujenkins> as in the website or bzr stuff?
<dutchie> it was down for maintainance earlier
<ubuntujenkins> website works not tried bzr but KerryHatcher had it working a moment ago
<KerryHatcher> working great for me
<KerryHatcher> doing some house cleaning on some old projects
<daker> oki thanks this is due to my internet connexion
<daker> guys ,what's the rule of the Whiteboard ?
<ubuntujenkins> write what you like but the progress of the blueprint is a good idea
<ubuntujenkins> whos doing what and whats left to do etc
<daker> Launchpad is a mystery
<daker> Oh tanks ubuntujenkins
<ubuntujenkins> no problem
<ubuntujenkins> KerryHatcher and rickspencer3 What are the plans for the dev manual as far as apport . I think a bit on how to include apport in an ap would be good. I am yet to look at wiki pages on as I plan to put it in quickshot this release. will this be in there?
<ubuntujenkins> *will a section on apport be in there?
<KerryHatcher> I'm not aware of one, but great idea!
<KerryHatcher> I was just reading this: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Apport#Per-package%20Apport%20Hooks
<KerryHatcher> ironic!
<KerryHatcher> Make a suggestion at https://launchpad.net/ubuntu-developer-manual
<ubuntujenkins> lol that link confused me as I saw "Use the source, Luke!" and my name is luke . It took me 2 minutes to realise its a star wars joke :P
 * flan thinks of other ways to confuse Luke.
<ubuntujenkins> thanks flan :P
<flan> Expect fun comments in the server. <3
<ubuntujenkins> I will keep an eye on my e-mail for those
<flan> I think I've got the structure pretty stable now, so you shouldn't see too much meaningless noise coing from me.
<ubuntujenkins> I don't mind the noise its progress
<daker> we will got a linux version of Âµtorrent
<ubuntujenkins> I don't understand the point of torrents I have never found them faster
<ubuntujenkins> but that porbably to the uni internet being so fast
<ubuntujenkins> KerryHatcher: should i make the suggestion as a lp question or a wishlist bug?
<rickspencer3> ubuntujenkins, you get apport support for free when you use Quickly
<rickspencer3> :)
<KerryHatcher> ah
<rickspencer3> no documentation required
<KerryHatcher> sweet
<ubuntujenkins> rickspencer3: really how what do i add where? this could make my life even easier. quickly is full of supprises
<KerryHatcher> i really like quickly
<rickspencer3> ubuntujenkins, when you create your project, the boiler plate includes LP support
<rickspencer3> aquarius, I can't wait to check out your widget
<rickspencer3> basically, you just made the whole "how do asynch fetch files from the web" a completely moot point
<ubuntujenkins> thats what those llines of code do something like "import launchpad.......".
<rickspencer3> you don't, you just use the widget
<rickspencer3> ubuntujenkins, I think so
<rickspencer3> :/
<aquarius> that was the idea. ;)
<rickspencer3> <3
<ubuntujenkins> rickspencer3: I will have to have a look when my exams are over.
 * ubuntujenkins has 1088245 seconds untill its over
<rickspencer3> aquarius, so basically, anything that is hard to document, we make easy to do
<aquarius> yes.
<rickspencer3> (was your basic point)
<rickspencer3> that is so cool
<trijntje> Can I report an error in the manual here or should I file a bug?
<dutchie> trijntje: file a bug. it'll probably just get forgotten here ;)
<aquarius> so then it won't be hard to do. Find all the sticking-up sharp edges in the platform, and smash them down with a mailed fist so they're not sharp edges any more. :)
<trijntje> dutchie, will do, thanks
<dutchie> aquarius: while saying "they're the same browser"? ;)
<aquarius> dutchie, heh. :)
<dutchie> oh god, that reminds me of the massive pile of SoJ episodes i have to listen to
<ubuntujenkins> but dutchie your behind in the conversation :)
<dutchie> i don't think i ever really was in the conversation :(
<ubuntujenkins> :(
<dutchie> might catch up with a few tonight
<ubuntujenkins> you can get a lot in as they are only 10mins . I like my podcasts they are all so good
<godbyk> back
<KerryHatcher> I'm going to be AFK for a bit so I can get out of the office on time. I'll be back later
<daker> godbyk, http://code.google.com/p/gource/
<godbyk> daker: I know; I've ran it against our project before.
<godbyk> Someone posted a YouTube video of part of it a while back.
<daker> great
<dutchie> that was humphrebc iirc
<dutchie> +y
<godbyk> I think someone else created the video, though.
<ubuntujenkins> night all
<rickspencer3> aquarius, jeezum urlfetchprogressbox is perfect!
<rickspencer3> now I just need to figure out how to write a test for it
<aquarius> rickspencer3, I'm not really sure how to test gui apps. I did look in the tests folder, but there isn't anything in there :)
<rickspencer3> uh
<rickspencer3> I have lots of tests for my widgets
<rickspencer3> BUT
<rickspencer3> if they connect to the web and such, they are hard to test
<rickspencer3> also, I don;t know how to write tests for things that are asynch :/
<rickspencer3> nevermind, I'll ask jml
<rickspencer3> anyway, aquarius, it works *solid*
<rickspencer3> I already push a new quidgets with it, added it to the start app, and will blog about it's awesome beauty tonight
<aquarius> o rly? where are the tests? tests/test_prompts.py is practically empty :)
<aquarius> I did look :)
<rickspencer3> that's for the prompts
<rickspencer3> which do lack tests, for the reasons I just listed :/
<rickspencer3> because I suck and don't know what I'm dong
<rickspencer3> but quickly/widgets/tests has tests
<rickspencer3> godbyk, so I'm back, and am about to run make
<rickspencer3> nevermind
<rickspencer3> looks like my stuff didn't get installed
<rickspencer3> :/
<rickspencer3> ubuntujenkins, so should I use http://ubuntu-manual.org/getinvolved/editors#install-tl2009
<rickspencer3> or the PPA?
<rickspencer3> godbyk, ^
<rickspencer3> ?
<rickspencer3> nm, I'm going with the website since I already installed all that goo
<godbyk> rickspencer3: if you've already installed the TL2009 using the upstream installer, then I'd just stick with that.
<godbyk> It'll always be more up-to-date than ubuntujenkins' packages.
<godbyk> (It comes with its own package manager/updater.)
<rickspencer3> godbyk, looks like it hadn't finished installing
<godbyk> 'kay.
<rickspencer3> so I kicked the install off again :/
<godbyk> It can take a while.
<godbyk> Did it say it was done?
<rickspencer3> I dunno
<rickspencer3> I guess I closed the term window
<godbyk> Ah.
<godbyk> Oops.
<rickspencer3> tbh, I forgot I was installing it
<rickspencer3> but I don't care because I am so happy about UrlFetchProgressbox
#ubuntu-manual 2010-06-03
<ChrisWoollard> G'night all. Until tomorrow.
<rickspencer3> godbyk, ah, so I screwed this up a bit ... I don';t think xelatex was installed to the right place, and I scipped the "make the sym links step"
<godbyk> rickspencer3: everyone does.
<godbyk> there's a fix, though
<godbyk> did you use the default paths?
<rickspencer3> yeah, I just hit "do it"
<godbyk> okay
<godbyk> type 'sudo apt-get install perl-tk'
<rickspencer3> I guess I just need to know where there were put, and drop sym links in /bin/bash and such?
<godbyk> then 'sudo /usr/local/texlive/2009/texmf/scripts/texlive/tlmgr --gui'
<rickspencer3> ok
<godbyk> even better.. there's an option in the gui to do it for you.
<godbyk> let me know when you've got the gui up.
<godbyk> (or if you hit snags before then)
<rickspencer3> hmmm
<rickspencer3> lots of snags
<rickspencer3> rick@rick-desktop:~/Projects/developer-manual$ sudo /usr/local/texlive/2009/texmf/scripts/texlive/tlmgrgui/tlmgrgui.pl
<rickspencer3> Can't locate TeXLive/Splashscreen.pm in @INC (@INC contains: /etc/perl /usr/local/lib/perl/5.10.1 /usr/local/share/perl/5.10.1 /usr/lib/perl5 /usr/share/perl5 /usr/lib/perl/5.10 /usr/share/perl/5.10 /usr/local/lib/site_perl .) at /usr/local/texlive/2009/texmf/scripts/texlive/tlmgrgui/tlmgrgui.pl line 17.
<rickspencer3> BEGIN failed--compilation aborted at /usr/local/texlive/2009/texmf/scripts/texlive/tlmgrgui/tlmgrgui.pl line 17.
<godbyk> it should be at /usr/local/texlive/2009/tlpkg/TeXLive/Splashscreen.pm
<godbyk> maybe go into that directory and run ./tlmgr --gui from there.
<godbyk> there should definitely be an easier way. :)
<godbyk> one moment
<godbyk> lemme see if the command-line version has an option for it
<godbyk> Try: "sudo tlmgr path add"
<godbyk> Try: "sudo tlmgr option path add"
<godbyk> (the latter)
<rickspencer3> right
<godbyk> actually, I take it back.
<rickspencer3> so just add /bin/bash/ ?
<rickspencer3> oops, ok
<godbyk> I think it is just 'sudo tlmgr path add'
 * rickspencer3 waits
<godbyk> no 'option'.  (the man page is difficult to read.)
<godbyk> what happens if you run 'sudo tlmgr path add'?
<rickspencer3> rick@rick-desktop:/usr/local/texlive/2009/texmf/scripts/texlive$ sudo ./tlmgr.pl path add
<rickspencer3> Can't locate TeXLive/TLConfig.pm in @INC (@INC contains: ./../../texmf/scripts/texlive ./../../tlpkg /etc/perl /usr/local/lib/perl/5.10.1 /usr/local/share/perl/5.10.1 /usr/lib/perl5 /usr/share/perl5 /usr/lib/perl/5.10 /usr/share/perl/5.10 /usr/local/lib/site_perl .) at ./tlmgr.pl line 78.
<rickspencer3> BEGIN failed--compilation aborted at ./tlmgr.pl line 78.
<godbyk> okay, "cd /usr/local/texlive/2009/tlpkg/TeXLive/"
<godbyk> then "sudo /usr/local/texlive/2009/texmf/scripts/texlive/tlmgr.pl path add"
<rickspencer3> godbyk, ok, I had to tweak that slightly to run
<Kerry_Hatcher> Hi everyone I'm back
<rickspencer3> no wait
<rickspencer3> oops
<godbyk> what'd you have to tweak?
<rickspencer3> yeah, I did
<rickspencer3> I add to, essentially cd /usr/local/texlive/2009/tlpkg/
<rickspencer3> oops
<rickspencer3> well, it ran, but with a different error :/
<rickspencer3> rick@rick-desktop:/usr/local/texlive/2009/tlpkg/TeXLive$ sudo /usr/local/texlive/2009/texmf/scripts/texlive/tlmgr.pl path add
<rickspencer3> Can't locate TeXLive/TLConfig.pm in @INC (@INC contains: /usr/local/texlive/2009/texmf/scripts/texlive/../../texmf/scripts/texlive /usr/local/texlive/2009/texmf/scripts/texlive/../../tlpkg /etc/perl /usr/local/lib/perl/5.10.1 /usr/local/share/perl/5.10.1 /usr/lib/perl5 /usr/share/perl5 /usr/lib/perl/5.10 /usr/share/perl/5.10 /usr/local/lib/site_perl .) at /usr/local/texlive/2009/texmf/scripts/texlive/tlmgr.pl line 78.
<rickspencer3> BEGIN failed--compilation aborted at /usr/local/texlive/2009/texmf/scripts/texlive/tlmgr.pl line 78.
<rickspencer3> rick@rick-desktop:/usr/local/texlive/2009/tlpkg/TeXLive$ ls
<rickspencer3> Splashscreen.pm  TLConfig.pm    TLMedia.pm  TLPDB.pm   TLPostActions.pm  TLTREE.pm   TLWinGoo.pm  waitVariableX.pm
<rickspencer3> TeXCatalogue.pm  TLDownload.pm  TLPaper.pm  TLPOBJ.pm  TLPSRC.pm         TLUtils.pm  trans.pl
<rickspencer3> rick@rick-desktop:/usr/local/texlive/2009/tlpkg$ sudo /usr/local/texlive/2009/texmf/scripts/texlive/tlmgr.pl path add
<rickspencer3> Can't exec "kpsewhich": No such file or directory at /usr/local/texlive/2009/texmf/scripts/texlive/tlmgr.pl line 315.
<rickspencer3> Use of uninitialized value $texmfsysvar in scalar chomp at /usr/local/texlive/2009/texmf/scripts/texlive/tlmgr.pl line 315.
<rickspencer3> Use of uninitialized value $texmfsysvar in concatenation (.) or string at /usr/local/texlive/2009/texmf/scripts/texlive/tlmgr.pl line 317.
<rickspencer3> Can't exec "kpsewhich": No such file or directory at /usr/local/texlive/2009/texmf/scripts/texlive/tlmgr.pl line 4287.
<rickspencer3> Use of uninitialized value $TEXMFCONFIG in scalar chomp at /usr/local/texlive/2009/texmf/scripts/texlive/tlmgr.pl line 4287.
<rickspencer3> Use of uninitialized value $TEXMFCONFIG in concatenation (.) or string at /usr/local/texlive/2009/texmf/scripts/texlive/tlmgr.pl line 4288.
<rickspencer3> cannot setup TLMedia in /usr/local/texlive/2009/texmf/scripts/texlive/../.. at /usr/local/texlive/2009/texmf/scripts/texlive/tlmgr.pl line 4074.
<godbyk> maybe cd .. and run tlmgr again?
<godbyk> (since it has the TeXLive path baked in)
<godbyk> I'm not sure.
<godbyk> otherwise, you can run the install script again and select that option this time.
<godbyk> It *should* detect that you've installed already and not download everything again.
<rickspencer3> hmmm
<rickspencer3> it concerns me that it's not functioning now though
<rickspencer3> let me poke at it a bit
<godbyk> 'kay.
<godbyk> see what happens when you don't follow the instructions closely? :)
<godbyk> (there are quite a lot of symlinks that it creates, so it's best to have it do it for you.)
<godbyk> (and if you have suggestions on how I can make those instructions more clear, let me know!)
<rickspencer3> godbyk, yeah, I screwed it up
<rickspencer3> if I rerun the installer, which directors should I specify?
<godbyk> rickspencer3: just accept the defaults and you should be okay.
<rickspencer3> screw it, I'm rerunning the installer
<rickspencer3> godbyk, so if it says this:
<rickspencer3> New value for binary directory [/usr/local/bin]:
<rickspencer3> what do I put?
<godbyk> you can accept the defaults, typically.
<rickspencer3> just hit enter?
<godbyk> you should have /usr/local/bin in your PATH environment variable.
<godbyk> yeah.
<godbyk> brb
<rickspencer3> fudge, it's redownloading everything I guess
<rickspencer3> good time to take a break
<ChrisWoollard> Maybe the ppa would have been a better idea.
<ChrisWoollard> This is not strictly a  manual related link. But i did think it an absolute work of genius. So I will share anyway.
<ChrisWoollard> http://www.pcpro.co.uk/blogs/2010/06/02/the_genius_of_the_lego_printer/
<nisshh> for anyone who is interested, maverick alpha 1 is out!
 * humphreybc-mini is on his little wee netbook
<dutchie> how exciting
<humphreybc-mini> very-
<humphreybc-mini> I found netbook edition to be shit
<humphreybc-mini> so i
<dutchie> dunno why you got a mini 9 when you could have got a 10v
<humphreybc-mini> so im running gnome instead
<humphreybc-mini> because we cant get the 10s with an SSD
<humphreybc-mini> coz dell NZ suck
<dutchie> oh
<dutchie> s/dell //
<dutchie> :P
<humphreybc-mini> lol
<humphreybc-mini> ubuntu, with compiz, runs fairly well
<humphreybc-mini> whatever window manager UNE uses is terrible though
<dutchie> maximus
<humphreybc-mini> unity is nice, but it crashes whenever I try to add something to the dock
<humphreybc-mini> otherwise i
<humphreybc-mini> otherwise i'd be using that
<humphreybc-mini> the enter key is where apostrophe should be
<humphreybc-mini> the ambiance them actually looks half decent on this for some reason though
<humphreybc-mini> I'm actually using it as default :O
<dutchie> i like the ambience theme
<humphreybc-mini> stoked that compiz works
<rickspencer3> godbyk hi
<rickspencer3> so make runs now
<rickspencer3> which is good
<rickspencer3> but I get hundreds of errors like this:
<rickspencer3> ! \textfont 0 is undefined (character u).
<rickspencer3> \Url@FormatString ...\Url@String \UrlRight \m@th $
<rickspencer3>                                                   
<rickspencer3> l.102 \url{http://www.ubuntu-manual.org/}
<rickspencer3>                                          
<rickspencer3> ?
<rickspencer3> and then a blank pdf is created
<godbyk> rickspencer3: did you run the pkgs/install-pkgs.sh script?
<rickspencer3> yeah
<godbyk> okay.
<rickspencer3> I think
<rickspencer3> :/
<godbyk> Can you paste the .log file for me?
<rickspencer3> it was yesterday ... and I remember looking at it
<rickspencer3> main.log?
<godbyk> yeah
<rickspencer3> godbyk: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/444156/
<godbyk> rickspencer3: ah, it's complaining because you're missing the graphics/advanced.pdf and graphics/warning.pdf files.
<godbyk> you can copy those from the ubuntu-manual repository.
<rickspencer3> can do
<godbyk> You also need to make sure you have the Linux Libertine OpenType fonts installed.
<godbyk> I think that the ttf-linux-libertine package provides them.
<godbyk> If not, you can get them from SourceForge.  (The link is on the last page of the Ubuntu manual [in the colophon].)
<godbyk> Same with Linux Biolinum.  It comes from the same SF site.  Otherwise ttf-linux-biolinum, I think.
<godbyk> And you need DejaVu Sans Mono.
<rickspencer3> dang
<godbyk> Those are the big problems I see.  We'll see what other problems exist after you've cleared those up. :)
<rickspencer3> hmm
<rickspencer3> I could apt-get install ttf-linux-libertine
<rickspencer3> but not ttf-linux-biolinum
<rickspencer3> and don't know where to get DejaVu Sand Mono
<rickspencer3> so, source forge it is
<godbyk> SF will get you the latest versions of Linux Libertine and Linux Biolinum.
<godbyk> Linux Biolinum is a new font and is quite preliminary, so it may not be packaged yet.
<godbyk> DejaVu Sans Mono is available in one of the ttf-dejavu* packages. (Just install 'em all.)
<ubuntujenkins> howdy all, did i miss much, irc is too much of a revision distraction
 * ubuntujenkins is excited that he has done"engineering management: Finance, Law and Quality" !
<rickspencer3> godbyk I'm confused, where exactly do I find the SF links?
<ubuntujenkins> rick are you still trying to install latex?
<rickspencer3> ubuntujenkins, no, fonts and such
<rickspencer3> I am wondering if I didn't use su for ./install.sh
<rickspencer3> so I'm trying that again
<ubuntujenkins> ouch it has taken a while to do it all
<godbyk> rickspencer3: I think you didn't use the install-pkgs.sh script.
<rickspencer3> godbyk I think I used it, but without sudo
<rickspencer3> so I'm running it with sudo, and it says it's installing stuff
<godbyk> rickspencer3: But if you open the PDF of Getting Started with Ubuntu 10.04, go to the very last page, it'll give you the links to the fonts.
<godbyk> You shouldn't have to run it with sudo -- it'll use sudo internally.  (It'll ask for your password if it needs it).
<rickspencer3> well, I ran it with sudo and it worked
<rickspencer3> so now it looks like I just need to set up the glossary and stuff like that
<rickspencer3> thanks godbyk!
<rickspencer3> I have a main.pdf :)
<godbyk> cool
<godbyk> any more error messages?
<rickspencer3> yeah, but there were due to undefined things in my document
<rickspencer3> referring to chapters that aren't there, glossary items that aren't there, etc...
<rickspencer3> I'll be back in a couple of hours, maybe get to work on this a bit more later tonight
<godbyk> Okay.
<godbyk> Yeah, the Makefile will complain about the glossary and index stuff.
 * ubuntujenkins attempts to build new packages for the ppa, and this time they are from the most up to date as they can be
 * ubuntujenkins looks into how to make a download progress bar for the manual program
<dutchie> ubuntujenkins: rickspencer3 was very pleased to have got a download bar of some description into quidgets iirc
<ubuntujenkins> ooo that might be good make my life easy. Quickly has helped me learn allot.
<ubuntujenkins> I will ask rick later and try and understand how quickshot reads the dictionary file. I like this revision break
 * ubuntujenkins thinks godbyk is right the more you think about a "simple" program the more complex it actually is.
<godbyk> You could've just stopped with 'ubuntujenkins thinks godbyk is right'. ;-)
<ubuntujenkins> lol
 * ubuntujenkins is building latex packages which are very up to date, I updated the latex source my self
<ubuntujenkins> soo much easier this time than last
<ubuntujenkins> dutchie: do you have a link for that page on ppa version numbers on launchpad?
<dutchie> help.lp.net somewhere
<dutchie> https://help.launchpad.net/Packaging/PPA/BuildingASourcePackage#versioning
<ubuntujenkins> thnaks dutchie
<c7p> hello, is there anything new about the licenses and the release of traslated versions ?
<shrini> team
<shrini> got a doubt on translating in LP
<shrini> anybody there"
<shrini> ?
<ubuntujenkins> I am here shrini
<shrini> ubuntujenkins: haiu
<shrini> after long time, coming here
<shrini> :-)
<shrini> what to do with the "developer note to translator"
<shrini> need to add that too in the translation?
<shrini> type: paragraph{#2}
<shrini> type: document
<shrini>       type: itemize
<shrini> ?
<ubuntujenkins> is that all of it? if not can you paste bin the whole thing please
<shrini> there are many
<shrini> on every english text,
<shrini> i see a note like this
<ubuntujenkins> oo in the po file?
<shrini> do we need to translate that?
<shrini> ya
<ubuntujenkins> now this makes sense, let me just read one so i get it ccorrect
<ubuntujenkins> no all you translate is the english between the " "
<shrini> ohoh
<shrini> okey
<shrini> thats great
<shrini> we finished writing in paper
<shrini> and typed in openoffice
<ubuntujenkins> yey \o/
<shrini> now copy-paste in LP
<shrini> :-)
 * ubuntujenkins has had to ask for the manual ppa size to be increased
<ubuntujenkins> ok I have built the packages locally how do I install all of the packages in a folder "dpkg -i *.deb" doesn't work as far as I can tell
<ubuntujenkins> are "sudo dpkg -i $(ls *.deb)" works
 * ubuntujenkins thinks that keeping the packages update is now easy
<ubuntujenkins> flan
<ubuntujenkins> ping
<ubuntujenkins> flan: I don't know if you will be able to help but if you can when you have a spare moment tomorrow and I am on irc and I am awake. I am having a problem with a patch applying when building a latex-bin package, not sure if you will know but you said that you had done some debian patch applying stuff
<ubuntujenkins> night all
<semioticrobotic> hiya friends ... what's new?  haven't seen much action on the blueprint for lucid-e2 (actually, it's been marked superseded?)  what's our plan of attack?
<rickspencer3> godbyk hey, I can't quite see how to set up the glossary
<rickspencer3> can you give me a quick pointer?
<godbyk> rickspencer3: sure. Look at the file frontmatter/glossary-entries.tex from the ubuntu manual project.
<rickspencer3> godbyk nm, just found frontmatter/glossaryentries
<godbyk> there ya go.
<godbyk> so you add the entries there.
<godbyk> then, in your text, you can write \gls{keyword}.
<rickspencer3> sweet!
<rickspencer3> I just had my first build sans errors of the developer manual
<rickspencer3> I can now build a crappily written prologue into a pdf!
<godbyk> lol
<rickspencer3> thanks for your help godbyk
<godbyk> no problem.
<godbyk> have you looked at the style guide? it may come in handy.
<godbyk> Hopefully we'll get time to update it soon.
#ubuntu-manual 2010-06-04
<ChrisWoollard> g'night
<flan> I'll try to be available, ubuntujenkins, but I'll be at work and will therefore be a little limited in what I can do.
<flan> (I have some VMs, but also a lot of tasks)
<ubuntujenkins> morning all
<ubuntujenkins> hopefully i will fix this pacthing error with the texlive-bin packages
<ubuntujenkins> pleia2: with the docs/manual/learning meeting do we want to open a new doodle poll?
<ubuntujenkins> hey humphreybc whats the "mini" version of you?
<humphreybc> my new netbook :P
<humphreybc-mini> isn't it exciting?
<ubuntujenkins> well it may be exciting for you but I don't have a netbook :)
<nisshh> humphreybc-mini: you lucky bugger, i, like ubuntujenkins, dont have one either
<ubuntujenkins> ?ppa > ubuntujenkins
<quickshotdevs> ubuntujenkins, please see my private message
<humphreybc-mini> just found I too suffer from this bug
<humphreybc-mini> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/480929
<manualbot> Launchpad bug 480929 in linux "[9.10]Audio hiss coming from netbook speakers when using headphones" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<humphreybc-mini> i'm trying the last fix in the comments, have to reboot
<nisshh> humphreybc-mini: what netbook is it?
<humphreybc-mini> dell mini 9
<humphreybc-mini> brb in like 20 seconds :P
<humphreybc-mini> it has an SSD
<nisshh> :O
<thorwil> humphreybc-mini: : i updated the title page templates for e2 with the new orange and CoF geometry, including the wave pattern a while ago. next step would be having the "Second Edition" string translated
<nisshh> thorwil: he will be back in a minute
<nisshh> had to reboot
<thorwil> arg, yeah, that happens when you type and not read along
<nisshh> hehe
<humphreybc-mini> hmm
<humphreybc-mini> that didnt fix it
<thorwil> humphreybc-mini: : i updated the title page templates for e2 with the new orange and CoF geometry, including the wave pattern a while ago. next step would be having the "Second Edition" string translated
<humphreybc-mini> thorwil: great :)
<ubuntujenkins> brb
<thorwil> i used to be happy with 13G for each of my 2 system partitions, but collecting more and more stuff in /usr/src and all the tex business ruined that :)
<ubuntujenkins> yep same for me, / is now 28gb to same me having to change it again
<shrini> team
<shrini> need help
<shrini> bzr branch lp:ubuntu-manual/lucid-e1
<shrini> this command disconnectted
<ubuntujenkins> do you have bzr installed?
<shrini> after downloading some yes
<shrini> yes
<shrini> i have
<shrini> net disconnected
<shrini> how to continue?
<shrini> bzr: ERROR: Target directory "lucid-e1" already exists. is the error
<shrini> but, it is partial
<ubuntujenkins> cd lucid-e1
<shrini> ok
<ubuntujenkins> bzr pull
<ubuntujenkins> give that a go
<shrini> bzr: ERROR: Not a branch: "/home/shrinivasan/ubuntu-manual/lucid-e1/.bzr/branch/": location is a repository.
<ubuntujenkins> bzr pull lp:ubuntu-manual/lucid-e1
<shrini> ubuntujenkins: ?
<ubuntujenkins> does that work?
<shrini> same error
<shrini> i downloaded 85MB
<shrini> now the folder ahs only 52 k
<shrini> ubuntujenkins: have to do again from start?
<ubuntujenkins> I think you will need to delete the "lucid-e1" folder and start again with bzr branch lp:ubuntu-manual/lucid-e1
<shrini> OMG
<shrini> :-)
<shrini> ok
<shrini> will do it again
<ubuntujenkins> hopefully the internet will say connected this time.
<shrini> hope so
<humphreybc-mini> well that was fun
<ubuntujenkins> humphreybc-mini: I am ready to update the manual tex ppa I built the packages from very up to date source. I am just waiting for someone to answer my request to make the ppa bigger
<ubuntujenkins> you have to ask a soyuz question
<humphreybc-mini> who have you asked?
<ubuntujenkins> https://answers.edge.launchpad.net/soyuz/+question/113396 is where you are directed
<ubuntujenkins> thats my question asking for it to be made bigger, I did only ask yesterday
<humphreybc-mini> oh
<humphreybc-mini> well give them some time ;)
<ubuntujenkins> yea I just want to get it done :-) . very much like that as a person
<humphreybc-mini> heh
<humphreybc-mini> I know how you feel
<shrini1> team
<shrini1> is there any way to rescue the disconnected "bzr branch" command?
<shrini1> i have disconnecting net onnection
<ubuntujenkins> shrini1: I suggest trying #bzr they migth be able to help
<shrini1> :-)
<shrini1> okey
<shrini1> ubuntujenkins: resume is not possible in bzr
<shrini1> :-(
<shrini1> what is the total size of the repo?
<shrini1> i downloaded 56M
<shrini1> what is the remaining size?
<ubuntujenkins> total is 185.5mb so 135mb remaining
<shrini1> ubuntujenkins: thanks
<ubuntujenkins> lets hope its third time lucky
<pleia2> ubuntujenkins: I think just using the same time as before in a week or so will be ok
<pleia2> re: meeting
<ubuntujenkins> ok thanks pleia2 I was just thinking about it randomly
 * pleia2 nods
 * ubuntujenkins uploads the new latex packages
<shrini> team
<shrini> need help
<shrini> make ubuntu-manual-ta.pdf
<shrini> did that
<shrini> but
<godbyk> what's up, shrini?
<shrini> tamil fonts are not displayed
<shrini> getting boxes
<shrini> :-)
<shrini> just tried
<shrini> some 8% of translation is uploaded to LP
<godbyk> shrini: let me try it here real quick.
<godbyk> I may not have the Tamil fonts set up yet.
<shrini> godbykthanks
<shrini> ok
<godbyk> shrini: yeah, I apparently don't have the tamil fonts set up yet.
<godbyk> shrini: I'm going to grab some lunch and then I'll get the fonts for you.
<shrini> okey
<shrini> will be awake long today
<godbyk> ok
<shrini> have to uplaod the pending translations
<godbyk> ooh.. tamil is a pretty script!
<godbyk> okay.  lunch first. then I'll fix the fonts.
<godbyk> :)
<ubuntujenkins> godbyk: I should package those today
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: package what?
<ubuntujenkins> the tamil fonts?
<godbyk> there are already some in the repositories. I'll probably just find a couple a like and toss 'em in.  (and change them if shrini says they look bad.)
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: See the ttf-tamil-fonts Ubuntu package for a few of the fonts.
<shrini> i have installed already
<ubuntujenkins> ok thanks, I am on a packing role today updated the  ppa with packages buitl on the newest possible source
<shrini> http://saranyaselvaraj.wordpress.com/2009/10/22/latex-using-tamil-document-and-commands/
<shrini> will this link help?
<godbyk> shrini: That's describes what we've been doing, yeah.
<shrini> oh
<shrini> grea
<shrini> t
<godbyk> shrini: How do you indicate emphasis?  For instance, with the English fonts, we can use italics and bold.  Do italics/bold mean anything with the Tamil script?
<shrini> :-)
<shrini> bold/italics are there
<shrini> but
<godbyk> okay
<shrini> not sure how to do in latex
<shrini> normally it should work
<godbyk> I'll worry about the LaTeX side of things.
<shrini> hmmm
<shrini> do we have any other translated pdf?
<godbyk> I just need to know what differences I need to make for Tamil from English.
<shrini> can compare
<godbyk> To compare what?
<shrini> can compare with other languages, if any
<godbyk> Ah, well, you can see our translated PDFs on this page: http://builds.ubuntu-manual.org/
<godbyk> (The first icon in the Files column links to the PDF.
<godbyk> The Greek manual is almost ready to be released.
<shrini> godbyk: wow
<shrini> found another one
<shrini> in my evince, the left pane has index
<shrini> that has some proper font in tamil
<godbyk> Yes.
<shrini> the left side only shows boxes
<shrini> :-)
<godbyk> Finished lunch.  Setting up your fonts now.
<godbyk> Do you use quotation marks?  If so, which ones?
<shrini> godbyk: where?
<godbyk> shrini: We're using them around the names of windows.
<shrini> any example?
<shrini> in po file?
<godbyk> Anytime the \window command it used, it puts the text in quotation marks.
<godbyk> So \window{My Window Name} would appear as "My Window Name" in the English PDF.
<shrini> oh
<shrini> we did not go that much
<shrini> only 6% uploaded to LP
<shrini> we are uploading now
<shrini> in the mean time, tried to see how it works
<godbyk> Not to worry. We can deal with that later.
<shrini> okey
<shrini> thanks
<shrini> another question
<shrini> i uploaded 3 full chapters in LP
<shrini> could not get all text in tamil for 3 chapters
<shrini> for example, check chapter 7
<godbyk> shrini: I don't understand your question. Sorry.
<shrini> okok
<shrini> i uploaded the text to LP for 3 chapters
<shrini> but seeing them in english only
<shrini> in the pdf
<shrini> only very few headings are shown as boxes atleast
<godbyk> Ah, gotcha.
<godbyk> If you've uploaded the text pretty recently (that is, after May 30th), then it won't appear yet.
<godbyk> I have to copy the text from Launchpad into the PDFs by running a script.  And I haven't done that for a few days.
<godbyk> If your translations appear in Launchpad, then they will appear in the PDF the next time I create it.
<shrini> godbyk: oh
<shrini> thats great
<shrini> how can I compile manually?
<shrini> i did all the bzr branch stuff
<shrini> make ubuntu-manual-ta.pdf
<godbyk> shrini: Have you installed TeX Live 2009?
<shrini> yes
<godbyk> okay. Running 'make ubuntu-manual-ta.pdf' should generate a PDF file by that name.
<godbyk> If it gives you errors, paste them to http://paste.ubuntu.com/ and I'll look at them for you.
<shrini> no errros
<shrini> I can get the pdf
<shrini> but missing lot of stuff in tamil
<shrini> ok
<shrini> leave it
<shrini> Let me finish uploading to LP fully
<godbyk> Okay.
<shrini> then, will check
<shrini> but, please look on the font issue in the right pane
<godbyk> I have to manually download the translations from Launchpad and put them in the bzr repository.
<godbyk> They won't show up in the PDFs until I do that.
<godbyk> shrini: I'm looking at the fonts right now. I should have the font issue fixed shortly.
<shrini> godbyk thanks
<shrini> checked arabic pdf
<shrini> pages are less
<shrini> but the fonts are good
<godbyk> shrini: Do you have any recommendations for great-looking Tamil fonts?
<shrini> no
<godbyk> Most of the ones I've looked at are boring and blech.
<shrini> what is the font name you use for tamil?
<godbyk> Tamil is such a beautiful script, yet most of the fonts are so flat.
<godbyk> I'm trying to decide which fonts to use right now.
<shrini> yes. we have very less FOSS fonts in tamil
<shrini> tons of beautiful fonts on commercial world
<godbyk> Which commercial fonts do you like?
<shrini> KA-lagaram
<shrini> is a neat font
<shrini> not free
<shrini> we use it in our DTP centers
<godbyk> Hey, shrini, would you like to be the translation editor for Tamil?
<shrini> :-)
<shrini> with pleasure
<shrini> what i have to do/
<shrini> ?
<godbyk> Well, you'll be my point-of-contact for the Tamil translation team.
<godbyk> And you'll have the final say when we're ready to publish the Tamil manual.
<shrini> sure
<godbyk> Awesome.  What's your full name, email address, and launchpad ID?
<shrini> Full Name : Shrinivasan
<shrini> tshrinivasan@gmail.com
<shrini> LP id : shrini
<godbyk> Perfect, thanks!
<shrini> thank you
<godbyk> shrini: I'll search for some nicer fonts this evening.  I should probably get back to other work for now, though.
<shrini> godbyk: fine
<godbyk> If you're not on IRC when I've fixed the fonts, I will email you to let you know.
<shrini> one interesting news
<shrini> this sunday, june 6
<shrini> we celebrate ubuntu release party
<shrini> on that party
<shrini> we planned to release this book
<shrini> is it posible?
<shrini> :-)
<shrini> text is ready
<godbyk> I don't think it will be ready in two days.
<shrini> we will upload it to LP tonight
<godbyk> We need to get the translations in Launchpad.
<shrini> ya
<godbyk> And there are some other LaTeX things I will need your help with sorting out, too.
<shrini> oh
<shrini> thats fine
<shrini> let us try our best
<godbyk> For instance, right now, the index doesn't know how to alphabetize Tamil.
<shrini> oh
<shrini> okey
<godbyk> And LaTeX has some words built-in (like 'Chapter' and 'Section') that I will need you to translate.
<shrini> i think we can keep the keywords
<shrini> as it is
<ubuntujenkins> also there are still 26 screenshots to do
<godbyk> Ah, good point, ubuntujenkins.
<shrini> how do you find the numbers?
<godbyk> shrini: http://screenshots.ubuntu-manual.org/
<godbyk> Hey, ubuntujenkins. What can we do to get rid of the php warnings on that page?  (They just look ugly.)
<shrini> how to see the existing tamil screenshots?
<godbyk> (I could disable warnings, but it'd be better to fix the code, I think.)
<ubuntujenkins> godbyk: not sure ask flan
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: will do.
<ubuntujenkins> shrini: I will find you the details of the current screenshots
<godbyk> hey, flan! :)
<shrini> ubuntujenkins: fine
<shrini> is there any possible to use english screenshots?
<ubuntujenkins> shrini: the current scrrenshots for tamil are in bzr branch  lp:~ubuntu-manual/ubuntu-manual-screenshots/ta
<ubuntujenkins> I think that by using tamil screenshots it will add to the professional look of it
<godbyk> And the screenshots are pretty easy to take.
<ubuntujenkins> shrini: do you have lucid?
<shrini> fine
<shrini> i have lucid
<shrini> but the problem
<shrini> is tamil is a different language
<shrini> and tamil people are different
<shrini> we prefer english than tamil for the UI
<shrini> though we have tamil UI
<shrini> the usage is very less
<shrini> negligable
<shrini> if we give this manual with tamil screenshots
<godbyk> That's interesting.
<shrini> people wont find in their desktops
<ubuntujenkins> that is interesting
<shrini> :-)
<shrini> we are strugling hard to push tamil
<shrini> in UI
<godbyk> shrini: Why do most of them prefer the English UI?  Is it because most systems don't have a good Tamil UI?
<shrini> godbyk: yes
<shrini> and the words are very old
<shrini> young generation feel odd to see tamil in UI
<godbyk> Is it better to show the English screenshots or better to show the Tamil screenshots (to show them that there is a Tamil UI)?
<shrini> English UI is better
<shrini> for now
<shrini> our goal is to write a book about ubuntu
<shrini> in tamil
<godbyk> shrini: When you talk about the names of UI things in the text, are you using the English words or Tamil words?
<shrini> we use english words only
<shrini> no 100% translation
<ubuntujenkins> would a new user choose tamil as their language when they did an install? If i had never used ubuntu before i would choose tamil as it is my language. (Thats my logic)
<shrini> it wont work
<shrini> ubuntujenkins: you are right
<shrini> but reality here is different
<shrini> I am with ubuntu for 3 years
<shrini> never seen a tamil desktop
<shrini> I used it for 1 year in tamil ui
<godbyk> Wow.
<shrini> others found difficult to use my system
<godbyk> I learn so much from our translators! :)
<shrini> even for some emergency
<shrini> it is a shame on us
<shrini> to reject native language in ui
<shrini> but, we need spread ubuntu, not native language
<shrini> :-)
<ubuntujenkins> wow.
<ubuntujenkins> I tend to navigate by pictures, after all of the quickshot testing
<ubuntujenkins> the icons are always the same
<shrini> I personally prefer tamil in ui
<shrini> but the public wont accept it
<godbyk> I lived in Germany for a year and didn't speak German.  When I had to use a German computer, I had to guess what the words meant based on their position (I new that 'New' was usually the first item in the File menu, for instance).
<godbyk> Hey, c7p.  I haven't forgotten about you! I'm going to work on the Greek translation this evening after work.
<godbyk> c7p: I think we're pretty close. I just need to run through it to make sure we haven't missed anything.
<shrini> godbyk: thats great. germans rock
<c7p> godbyk: hey :D I'me glad to hear that
<shrini> it may take some years for tamil to push in UI
<godbyk> shrini: You may have to invent some new Tamil words just for the UI. :)
<c7p> godbyk: So the license issue is over >
<c7p> ?*
<godbyk> c7p: Well, for this first edition, we will have to use the English license. But we can put a Greek paragraph at the top that links to the Greek license.
<godbyk> c7p: We're hoping to convince the Creative Commons lawyers to let our translators translate the licenses. Then they can have the translated licenses proofread or whatever and we can start using them.
<godbyk> c7p: But for this first edition, we're stuck with English.
<c7p> godbyk: good :) np since there is a translated paragraph explaining the situation, as it is on the license-el.tex that I have sent you recently, hmm haven't I?
<godbyk> yep, I got your email.
<shrini> godbyk: hahaah
<godbyk> c7p: have you already copied that into the ubuntu-manual-el.tex file?
<shrini> we created 1 font
<shrini> still needs improvement
<godbyk> shrini: It's really hard to make good fonts.
<shrini> yes
<c7p> godbyk: hm I don't remember let me check it
<shrini> godbyk: http://saranyaselvaraj.wordpress.com/2009/09/29/creating-tamil-fonts/
<godbyk> shrini: Yeah, I saw that when I was looking for fonts.
<godbyk> shrini: Speaking of, do you like any of the fonts on this page? http://www.wazu.jp/gallery/Fonts_Tamil.html
<shrini> godbyk: great
<godbyk> shrini: Or do you have any favorite open/free fonts?
<c7p> godbyk: I corrected the license link on the first page to http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/deed . Now should I copy the content of license.tex into the ubuntu-manual tex ?
<shrini> godbyk: Lohit Tamil
<shrini> is fine
<godbyk> c7p: Yeah, it'd be a help to me if you could copy the license stuff over to the ubuntu-manual-el.tex file.
<godbyk> shrini: thanks, I'll give it a shot.  are there any nice calligraphic-style tamil fonts?  what kinds of fonts are usually used for books written in tamil?  fonts with strokes that never vary in width? or fonts with strokes that do vary in width?
<c7p> godbyk: sure if that helps. I paste it to the line of "\LoadLicenseFile" (of course i will delete this \LoadLicenseFile). ok?
<shrini> godbyk: for book printing, font should not vary in width
<shrini> godbyk: same width font should be used
<godbyk> c7p: That should work, yeah.
<shrini> godbyk: else, the spacing wont be even.
<godbyk> shrini: okay.
<shrini> as you said, that link is the famous page for tamil unicode fonts
<godbyk> shrini: I like the ones that vary in width, though. :(
<shrini> godbyk: can u show some example for the same in engkish?
<shrini> have to check if I understood correctly
<shrini> :-)
<godbyk> shrini: Well, on that page of Tamil fonts, if you compare Lohit Tamil to Akshar Unicode, for instance.
<godbyk> Notice that with Akshar Unicode, the thickness of the brush stroke changes as the brush changes direction.
<godbyk> With Lohit Tamil, it looks like it was drawn with a marker instead of a brush -- the stroke widths don't change.
<shrini> godbyk: you are right
<shrini> that is also nice
<shrini> but, for printing lohit tamil will be fine and professional
<shrini> I think, if I want to change the pdf in another font, I can change in some config file and compile a new pdf with new tamil font.
<shrini> am i right?
<godbyk> shrini: Kind of.  Let me set it up for Lohit Tamil real quick and see if that works.
<shrini> godbyk: great
<godbyk> Ah, there's more code I have to write before it will work.
<godbyk> I'll write that code tonight.  I will also send you an email with the LaTeX translations I will need from you.  (There are only about a dozen words.)
<shrini> godbyk: sure
<c7p> godbyk: i've sent you the mail. After inclusion of license on the main tex file, the compilation is done with success but lot with no errors :/ although the pdf looks fine
<godbyk> c7p: you said you did get errors when you compiled it?
<c7p> godbyk: yes re annoying lines :)
<c7p> red*
<godbyk> okay
<godbyk> I'm still waiting for your email to arrive.
<c7p> omg gmail is freezed
<godbyk> Can you paste the ubuntu-manual-el.log file to http://paste.ubuntu.com/?
<c7p> godbyk: finally the message has gone. check the log http://paste.ubuntu.com/444782/
<godbyk> ok
<c7p> godbyk: g2g brb in a half hour
<c7p> back
<ubuntujenkins> night all
<cwoollard> g'night
<c7p> night all
#ubuntu-manual 2010-06-05
 * ubuntujenkins yey ppa update is successful now I am really going to bed this time
<dutchie> you say that
<dutchie> but then I send you a link like http://i43.tinypic.com/2e2jt5l.jpg
<ubuntujenkins> no really, I have to start revision in the morning
<ubuntujenkins> lol funny link
<ubuntujenkins> our latex packages can't really be any more up to date
<ubuntujenkins> night all
<cwoollard> Cool, I am going to patch now :)
<dutchie> stupid bloody autotools
<dutchie> the "make it as easy as possible for the user, at the expense of the maintainer" policy is annoying
<ChrisWoollard> Since I upgraded to the latest ppa that UbuntuJenkins created yesterday. I how get the following errors.
<ChrisWoollard> http://paste.ubuntu.com/444989/
<ChrisWoollard> Please can you advise?
<ubuntujenkins> ChrisWoollard: it all works for me, are the permissons ok on the branch folder? I guess they would be as it worked before
<ubuntujenkins> ChrisWoollard: try make clean and then make
<ubuntujenkins> brb
 * ubuntujenkins hopes its not the ppa its self
<ubuntujenkins> nisshh: you use the latex ppa right?
<nisshh> ubuntujenkins: yes im getting updates for it right now
<nisshh> 400MB's +
<nisshh> ubuntujenkins: why?
<ubuntujenkins> when you have the updates can you please run make on lucid-e1 . Everything works for me. but ChrisWoollard has a problem. I don't think its the ppa but I haven't heard back from him
<nisshh> ubuntujenkins: sure but because of my slow net you will have to wait atleast 45 minutes or so
<ubuntujenkins> thats fine I would like to know if it affects anyone else
<nisshh> ubuntujenkins: cool, e1 is just lp:ubuntu-manual/e1 yea?
<dutchie> lp:ubuntu-manual/lucid-e1
<nisshh> dutchie: thanks
<nisshh> ubuntujenkins: also, is ChrisWoollard having trouble with a translated version or the english version?
<ubuntujenkins> as far as i can thell he is just using make (so the english version)
<nisshh> right that makes it easy
<nisshh> ubuntujenkins: wow, one of the largest packages is a -doc package
<nisshh> 193MB
<ubuntujenkins> hmm, proabbly didn't need to update that who reads them?
<nisshh> well, when i first installed the texlive package from the ppa, it needed all the rest just to work too
<nisshh> which is a pain
<ChrisWoollard> hello
<nisshh> i mean i do have 25GB's of bandwidth a month but it is really slow to download at this speed
<nisshh> ChrisWoollard: hey
<ubuntujenkins> hey ChrisWoollard
<ChrisWoollard> my permissions should be fine. nothing has changed.
<ChrisWoollard> I also deleted the whole branch and tried again.
<ubuntujenkins> yea i guessed that would be the case.
<ubuntujenkins> o this could not be good then
<ubuntujenkins> are you 64bit or 32bit?
<ChrisWoollard> I am running 32bit
<nisshh> ubuntujenkins: so am i
<ubuntujenkins> hmm I am 64bit. I am going to reboot again just to double check. I think there is only one package that is both 64bit and 32bit. Most are for both.
<ubuntujenkins> brb
<ChrisWoollard> I am going to try doing a reinstall of all packages just in case.
<ChrisWoollard> It did report that they sucessfully installed, but I was running low on disk space. But i have fixed that anow
<nisshh> ChrisWoollard: dont try just yet, wait for me to test out the latest ppa updates
<ChrisWoollard> ok. I will wait.
<ChrisWoollard> It was lp:ubuntu-manual/lucid-e2 that I was building
<ubuntujenkins> oooooo does lucid-e1 work?
<ChrisWoollard> I have not tried that
<ChrisWoollard> give me a moment
<nisshh> sure
<ubuntujenkins> lucid-e2 works for me
<nisshh> i *think* e2 works for me, i still havent got all these updates yet
<nisshh> have an answer to that in about 25 minutes or less
<ChrisWoollard> I get the same with lucid e1
<ubuntujenkins> ouch
 * ubuntujenkins is getting worried
<ChrisWoollard> Should I just try that re-install of the packages
<ChrisWoollard> just to make sure
<ubuntujenkins> I am just setting up a virtual machine
<nisshh> ChrisWoollard: not yet, wait anotherm minute
<nisshh> 5 minutes and i have the updates
<ubuntujenkins> ChrisWoollard: can you completey remove ubuntu-manual-tex package and reinstall it please . Its a dummy package
<ChrisWoollard> Ok. It is completely removed.
<ubuntujenkins> now install it again and see if that pulls in anything that could be missing
<ChrisWoollard> I also did an apt-get clean. to clear the cache
<ChrisWoollard> I wonder how long it will take to download
<nisshh> ChrisWoollard: a freaking long time
<ubuntujenkins> my virtual machine is jsut installing the packages
<ChrisWoollard> Mine too.
<ChrisWoollard> Looks like the download finished
<nisshh> right im compiling e2 now
<nisshh> then ill try e1 as well
<nisshh> not knowing very much C is a huge pain when it comes to this
<nisshh> opps wrong channe;
<nisshh> ubuntujenkins: ok, e2 works fine for me
<nisshh> trying e1 now
<ubuntujenkins> hmm may not be the latex packages then
<ubuntujenkins> the packages take ages to install
<nisshh> ubuntujenkins: i dont think so, it may be something wrong with ChrisWoollard's setup
<ubuntujenkins> yea thats my thinking, hoepfully reinstalling the ubuntu-manual-tex package my solve it
<ChrisWoollard> I hope as well.
<nisshh> we all do mate
<ChrisWoollard> I also hope the re-install fixes the issue
<ChrisWoollard> dpkg: error processing texlive-xetex (--configure):
<ChrisWoollard>  subprocess installed post-installation script returned error exit status 1
<ChrisWoollard> Setting up tipa (2:1.3-14) ...
<ChrisWoollard> Running mktexlsr. This may take some time... done.
<ChrisWoollard> I just spotted that error
<nisshh> i think that does it for me too but it doesnt seem to make a difference
<ChrisWoollard> Processing triggers for libc-bin ...
<ChrisWoollard> ldconfig deferred processing now taking place
<ChrisWoollard> Processing triggers for python-support ...
<ChrisWoollard> Errors were encountered while processing:
<ChrisWoollard>  texlive-xetex
<ChrisWoollard>  ubuntu-manual-tex
<ChrisWoollard> E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1)
<ChrisWoollard> it has now finished the install
<ubuntujenkins> make works for me as well. and so did the install. hmm there is something wrong with your setup
<nisshh> ChrisWoollard: you dont have any tex packages from the repos installed do you?
<ChrisWoollard> There shouldn't be
<ubuntujenkins> what does sudo dpkg --configure texlive-xetex give?
<ubuntujenkins> I think all of the packages are superseded by my packages
<nisshh> ubuntujenkins: even so, its worth ruling out any possibilities like that
<ubuntujenkins> nisshh: I agree
<ChrisWoollard> cwoollard@cwoollard-desktop-sony:~$ sudo dpkg --configure texlive-xetex
<ChrisWoollard> [sudo] password for cwoollard:
<ChrisWoollard> Setting up texlive-xetex (2009-10ubuntuppa1) ...
<ChrisWoollard> Running mktexlsr. This may take some time... done.
<ChrisWoollard> Building format(s) --all --cnffile /etc/texmf/fmt.d/10texlive-xetex.cnf.
<ChrisWoollard> 	This may take some time... done.
<ChrisWoollard> seemed to work
<ubuntujenkins> try make now
<nisshh> ubuntujenkins: does e1 work for you?
<ubuntujenkins> yep
<ubuntujenkins> hang on maybe not tried 32bit
<ChrisWoollard> it still gives this error on make
<ChrisWoollard> <use  "titlepage/title_page_letter_en.pdf" > [1
<ChrisWoollard> ! I can't write on file `main.pdf'.
<ChrisWoollard> (Press Enter to retry, or Control-D to exit; default file extension is `.pdf')
<ChrisWoollard> Please type another file name for output:
<manualbot> ChrisWoollard: Error: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<nisshh> hehe
<ChrisWoollard> manualbot: Great thanks. You were a great help.
<dutchie> silly manualbot
<manualbot> ChrisWoollard: Error: "Great" is not a valid command.
<manualbot> ChrisWoollard: Error: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<nisshh> ChrisWoollard: are you only running 'make' not 'make filename'
<ubuntujenkins> ChrisWoollard: what does "make ubuntu-manual-en_GB.pdf give?
<ChrisWoollard> I am only running 'make'.
<nisshh> ok, holy crap i forgot how big the e1 branch was
<ubuntujenkins> lucid-e1 works on both 32 bit and 64bit
<ChrisWoollard> Ok. I have no idea what has happened to my computer
<ubuntujenkins> ChrisWoollard: can you run dpkg -l and pastebin it please
<ChrisWoollard> http://paste.ubuntu.com/445052/
<nisshh> e1 works for me too
<ubuntujenkins> nisshh: do you have texlive-full installed?
<nisshh> ubuntujenkins: hell no, thats HUGE
<ubuntujenkins> don't worry that doesn't matter my virtual machie doesn't and it still works
<nisshh> yea
<ChrisWoollard> I am going to reboot. back in a couple of minutes
<ubuntujenkins> ok, I really don't know what it is
<ChrisWoollard> I just did an fschk.
<ChrisWoollard> \nyway back soon
 * ubuntujenkins does not know whats worng
<ChrisWoollard> Ok. I have no idea any more. It just doesn't work
<ubuntujenkins> the only thing is file permisson error this line "! I can't write on file `main.pdf'." makes me think it. but it makes no sense why it would be that.
<ubuntujenkins> as you have said you have a new branch
<ubuntujenkins> your user home directory doen't have no standard permissons does it?
<ubuntujenkins> *non
<ChrisWoollard> Shouldn't do. I haven't changed anything
<ChrisWoollard> Why do i get the feeling that It would be quicker to re-install.
<ubuntujenkins> godbyk might know he may be up in a few hours.
<ubuntujenkins> its so strange that this is happening
<ChrisWoollard> I will wait until then.
<ChrisWoollard> I know. It is weird
<ubuntujenkins> I would like to know what it is if we work it out.
 * ubuntujenkins starts revision
 * ChrisWoollard is sorry for distracting you :)
<ubuntujenkins> don't worry I would rather have got a fix out early so less people are affected
<ubuntujenkins> A question to any one: Can you think of a better way of detecting the current graphics driver in use. lshw is too slow for quickshot
<nisshh> ubuntujenkins: not off the top of my head but there MUST be another way of doing that
<ubuntujenkins> nisshh: I figured there would be , hopefully someone will know of one
<nisshh> linux = 20 different ways of acheiving something
<ubuntujenkins> lol
<shrini> lspci | grep VGA
<ubuntujenkins> shrini: does that give the driver. I think mine is jsut the card i have
<nisshh> yea no driver with that command
<ubuntujenkins> it only matters as the command used to change the resolution depends on the command to be used
<nisshh> yep
<ubuntujenkins> it only matters as the command used to change the resolution depends on the driver in use
<ubuntujenkins> that makes more sense :)
<ubuntujenkins> nisshh: can you paste the output of ls /sys/module
<nisshh> http://paste.ubuntu.com/445160/
<nisshh> ubuntujenkins: ^^
<ubuntujenkins> ta
<ubuntujenkins> is your graphics a i915?
<nisshh> something like that
<nisshh> i9xx anyway
<ubuntujenkins> thats ok, #ubuntu-uk are trying to think how to handle multi card setups
<nisshh> VGA controller is an intel 946GZ
<nisshh> ah, i dont have a multi-card setup
<nisshh> i run inbuilt gfx
<nisshh> really shitty unbuilt gfx...
<ubuntujenkins> lol another way is to query runing xorg aparently
<nisshh> yea, that might work
<ubuntujenkins> any idea how to do it?
<nisshh> nope :)
<nisshh> hang on ill help you out with my google fu
<ubuntujenkins> I am googleing but my laptop is on slow go as I am repartioning an external dirve
<nisshh> hmm, found a command to find the amount of ram your vid chip has
<ubuntujenkins> hmm, does the man page for it have anything of use
<nisshh> maybe, hang on
<nisshh> ubuntujenkins: aha! that same command also shows the current "kernel driver" in use by your gfx card
<nisshh> its: lspci -v -s 00:02.0
<nisshh> im apparently using the i915 driver
<ubuntujenkins> yea lspci -v might help. I wonder how it works if someone has two graphics cards.
<nisshh> well, both should be listed there then
<ubuntujenkins> yea but which one are they currently using is harder to work out
<nisshh> well, if someone had dual cards, wouldnt they most likely be using either sli of xfire?
<nisshh> or xfire
<ubuntujenkins> what are those?
<nisshh> if you have two gfx cards in your machine, you just have a little, hardware "bridge" between them and then your system will use both cards
<nisshh> let me find a pic to show you
<ubuntujenkins> cool thanks I will look into it
<nisshh> right, sli is what nvidia calls it, xfire is what ati calls it
<nisshh> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scalable_Link_Interface
<nisshh> its been around for about 5-6 years in mainstream
 * nisshh is off to watch a movie now
<ubuntujenkins> cool, I think i should do some more revison
<ChrisWoollard> can you send me the paste bin  with the repository info in it.
<shrini> godbyk: hai
<ubuntujenkins> ChrisWoollard: do you mean the manual ppa stuff?
<ubuntujenkins> ?mppa | ChrisWoollard
<quickshotdevs> ChrisWoollard: The manual team has a latex PPA  you can add it by running these commands in a terminal(Applications â Accessories â Terminal):  sudo add-apt-repository ppa:ubuntu-manual/ubuntu-manual then    sudo apt-get update    sudo apt-get install ubuntu-manual-tex
<ubuntujenkins> shrini: I guess godbyk is still a sleep
<shrini> ubuntujenkins: oh. ok ok
<shrini> waiting for him
<shrini> will wait
<shrini> no issues
<ubuntujenkins> some of us have irc on 24 hours a day you see
<ubuntujenkins> cool
<shrini> yet to confirm tamil fonts from him
<shrini> :-)
<ubuntujenkins> I see
<ChrisWoollard> I found the ppa
<ChrisWoollard> thanks
<ChrisWoollard> I had a note anyway
<ubuntujenkins> cool, I guess you went for reinstalling then>?
<ChrisWoollard> Well, I now have another vm. This one works
<ubuntujenkins> very strange indeed
<ChrisWoollard> I am just not sure if i have copied all my ssh / gpg / lp keys across.
<ChrisWoollard> That doesn't explain why my other vm doesn't work.
<ChrisWoollard> I will still ask godbyk when i see him
<ubuntujenkins> yea i can't think what is is
<ChrisWoollard> I wonder if something went wrong when I expanded the disk on the vm.
<ChrisWoollard> I should have cloned it first before I did anything.
<ubuntujenkins> I don't have much expeince with expanding the disk on a vm
<thorwil> godbyk: thanks for the links!
<shrini> team
<shrini> need a help
<shrini> we have uploaded 7 chapters to LP
<shrini> how to check for the pdf output?
<shrini> ubuntujenkins: any idea?
<shrini> ?
<shrini> room is so silent
<shrini> :-)
<shrini> anybody there?
<thorwil> shrini: only halfway
<shrini> thorwil: :-)
<shrini> need help on getting new pdf
<shrini> we updated some more in LP
<shrini> is there any way to get latest pdf?
<thorwil> shrini: ooh, by running "make"?
<daker> hey @all
<thorwil> hi daker
<thorwil> shrini: provided you have all the tex stuff in place, which is why i don't intend to bother with that myself any time soon again :)
<shrini> thorwil: hi
<shrini> i have all the things
<shrini> yesterday did a make and got a PDF
 * thorwil switched partition/installation and would have to set it all up again
<daker> godbyk, ping
<shrini> today updated lot in LP
<godbyk> daker: pong
<shrini> how to make a updated pdf?
<shrini> godbyk: hai
<godbyk> Hey, shrini.
 * vish watches ping-pong match
<thorwil> shrini: make again?
<godbyk> shrini: You'd just run 'make ubuntu-manual-ta.pdf' to generate the PDF.
<godbyk> shrini: But you won't see anything new until I download the latest translations from Launchpad.
<daker> godbyk, i am trying to make a class that read an xml file
<shrini> it wont get today's updates
<godbyk> (I'll do that now and regenerate the PDFs.)
<godbyk> daker: Using php?
<daker> yes
<godbyk> Okay.
<shrini> godbyk: how can I do that myself/
<shrini> ?
<godbyk> shrini: You can't, really.
<shrini> as I have the bzr repo
<shrini> with me
<shrini> godbyk: fine.
<shrini> what is your current time now?
<godbyk> shrini: As soon as Launchpad emails me the translations, I'll put them in the bzr repository.  Then you can run 'bzr pull' to update your repository and 'make ubuntu-manual-ta.pdf' to regenerate the PDF.
<shrini> how long I can trouble you?
<daker> godbyk, http://paste.ubuntu.com/445232/
<shrini> ok
<godbyk> shrini: It's currently 14:00 here. So I'm going to be here for quite a while. :)
<shrini> godbyk: ok. thanks
<shrini> I get a new po file in mail
<shrini> where to put that?
<godbyk> shrini: Rename the po file to ta.po and put it in the po/ directory.  Then just rerun 'make ubuntu-manual-ta.pdf'
<shrini> godbyk: okey
<shrini> thats fine
<shrini> will do now
<godbyk> 'kay.
<godbyk> I'm waiting for Launchpad to email me all the translations. (It usually takes five minutes or so.)
<thorwil> daker: <e1-10.04 name="10.04"> is either ugly i or o don't understand the purpose
<daker> it's just a presentation
<thorwil> daker: if the element represents a revision, the revision should be an attribute and the element name would have to be neutral
<shrini> godbyk: did that
<daker> thorwil, it's to hard to make a code for that
<shrini> :-)
<shrini> font issue is there
<thorwil> daker: the only other unclear thing is %s%.pdf
<thorwil> daker: go and stand in a corner! ;)
<shrini> getting only boxes
<shrini> :-)
<daker> with my presentation : i should just call : $oTree->element("e2-10.04", "en", "print", "mirrors", "mirror1");
<shrini> i think your version of pdf may be good
<shrini> waiting for your pdf version
<daker> thorwil, to get the first mirror
<daker> or $oTree->element("e2-10.04", "fr", "print", "mirrors");  to get an array of all the mirrors of the printed edition (e2)
<godbyk> I don't know if you can use . in xml element names.
<thorwil> daker: do you handle cases where the number of mirror may be = 0 or > 2 ?
<daker> i think we can
<daker> godbyk, the code is working for me
<godbyk> daker: I'd change <e1-10.04 name="10.04"> to <manual id="10.04-e1">
<daker> that's problem
<daker> my class doesn't handle that
<godbyk> let me start these translations real quick, then I'll come back to your xml, daker.
<godbyk> shrini: the font issue will still be there, yeah. I haven't fixed that yet.
<daker> take your time
<shrini> godbyk: okok
<shrini> http://kanchilug.wordpress.com/2010/06/04/schedule-for-ubuntu-10-04lts-release-party/
<shrini> we have release party
<godbyk> shrini: I saw that. It looks awesome!
<shrini> will try best to bring the tamil pdf
<shrini> godbyk: wow
<shrini> saw already?
<shrini> how?
<godbyk> Google found the page and emailed it to me.
<godbyk> (It tells me when it see 'ubuntu manual' on a website.)
 * ubuntujenkins gets bored of revision
<shrini> wow
<shrini> great
<thorwil> ubuntujenkins: what is this revision you keep mentioning?
<ubuntujenkins> we are they top of google when you search "ubuntu manual"
<godbyk> shrini: I've put all the translations in bzr now, so if you run 'bzr pull' you should get the latest.
<ubuntujenkins> thorwil: I have end of second year uni exams
<godbyk> I'm also building all the translated PDFs now.  It'll take about 30 minutes for them to finish.
<shrini> godbyk: great
<ubuntujenkins> thorwil:  heat transfer and fluid flow and electronics to finish
<ubuntujenkins> heat transfer and fuild folw is one exam
<shrini> godbyk: doint that
<shrini> doing that
<shrini> the diff only updated. right?
<godbyk> shrini: It looks like someone may have already translated the Tamil LaTeX stuff for us: http://www.mail-archive.com/xetex@tug.org/msg00063.html
<thorwil> ubuntujenkins: revision is if you have to take an exam again? (there are several translations of the term that could work in this context)
<godbyk> shrini: I'm going to see if I can track down a copy of those files.
<shrini> godbyk: fine
<ubuntujenkins> thorwil: revision = study in preparation for exams
<ChrisWoollard> godbyk: ping
<ubuntujenkins> channel: ping
 * ubuntujenkins wishes that worked :P
<godbyk> ChrisWoollard: pong
<ChrisWoollard> you mean that
 * godbyk wishes he could replace himself with a small shell script
<ChrisWoollard> do /ping #ubuntu-manual
<ChrisWoollard> godbyk, can you have a look at http://paste.ubuntu.com/444989/
<ChrisWoollard> do you have any idea what might be going wrong
<godbyk> wow.
<godbyk> Um.. I'm guessing it's a file permissions problem.
<godbyk> what's 'pwd' say?
<godbyk> and then show me 'ls -ld .'
<ChrisWoollard> cwoollard@cwoollard-desktop-sony:~/Projects/lucid-e2$ pwd
<ChrisWoollard> /home/cwoollard/Projects/lucid-e2
<thorwil> who would ever think godbyk could be replaced with a small shell script?
<godbyk> and then try 'touch main.pdf'
<thorwil> though then again, maybe some mysterious perl one-liner??
<ChrisWoollard> drwxr-xr-x 21 cwoollard cwoollard 12288 2010-06-05 15:44 .
<godbyk> thorwil: sadly, perl is probably what you'd have to use, as scatter-brained as I am most days!
<ChrisWoollard> touch main.pdf works fine
<godbyk> run 'make clean'
<godbyk> then run 'xelatex main'
<ChrisWoollard> I even tried deleting the braet and getting it again
<ChrisWoollard> branch
<ChrisWoollard> http://paste.ubuntu.com/445253/
<godbyk> weird.
<godbyk> do you have an existing main.pdf in that dir (as a file or folder)?
<ChrisWoollard> that's what -rw-r--r--  1 cwoollard cwoollard   447 2010-06-05 20:39 main.aux
<ChrisWoollard> -rw-r--r--  1 cwoollard cwoollard     0 2010-06-05 20:36 main.glo
<ChrisWoollard> -rw-r--r--  1 cwoollard cwoollard     0 2010-06-05 20:36 main.idx
<ChrisWoollard> -rw-r--r--  1 cwoollard cwoollard 43325 2010-06-05 20:39 main.log
<ChrisWoollard> -rw-r--r--  1 cwoollard cwoollard     0 2010-06-05 20:36 main.out
<quickshotdevs> ChrisWoollard: Error: "rw-r--r--" is not a valid command.
<ChrisWoollard> -rw-r--r--  1 cwoollard cwoollard  1762 2010-06-05 08:55 main.tex
<quickshotdevs> ChrisWoollard: Error: "rw-r--r--" is not a valid command.
<quickshotdevs> ChrisWoollard: Error: "rw-r--r--" is not a valid command.
<quickshotdevs> ChrisWoollard: Error: "rw-r--r--" is not a valid command.
<quickshotdevs> ChrisWoollard: Error: "rw-r--r--" is not a valid command.
 * ubuntujenkins hits quickshotdevs 
<godbyk> Bad, quickshotdevs! Bad!
 * ubuntujenkins tries to work out why its using -
<godbyk> ChrisWoollard: Well, obviously tex can write files to that directory, so that's not the issue..
<ChrisWoollard> It happened after patching the ppa.
<ubuntujenkins> but its not the ppa, as we checked it this morning
<ChrisWoollard> And I installed a whole new vm and installed the ppa again and it was fine
<ubuntujenkins> I checked in a vm and nissh did an update .
<ubuntujenkins> I checked the 64bit on a real machine
<ChrisWoollard> The only thing I could think of was that there may be a corruption in my vm.
<ChrisWoollard> Have you any ideas?
<godbyk> Here's what the LaTeX Companion has to say about that error:
<godbyk> TeX is not allowed to write data to the file <main.pdf> [in our case].  It is probably read-only or you may not have writing permission for its directory.
<godbyk> On some TeX implementations (e.g., those on the TeX Live CD), the error may be preceded by a line like the following:
<godbyk> tex: Not writing to /texmf/tex/latex/base/latex.ltx (openout_any = p)
<ubuntujenkins> -1
<quickshotdevs> ubuntujenkins: Error: "1" is not a valid command.
<godbyk> These TeX installations are by default configured to be "paranoid" (hence, "p" above) when writing to files.
<godbyk> They allow you to write only to files below the current directory and not to any files specified with an absolute path name or starting with a dot in their name.
<godbyk> To change that behavior, you have to modify the settings in the file texmf.cnf.
<godbyk> --EOF--
<quickshotdevs> godbyk: Error: "-EOF--" is not a valid command.
<godbyk> Sadly, I don't think any of that applies.
<godbyk> We're trying to write to main.pdf in the current directory, right?
<ChrisWoollard> heh
<ChrisWoollard> did you kill him?
<godbyk> I hope so. :)
<ubuntujenkins> yea I can';t remember how to change the settings whilst she is online
<ChrisWoollard> yes it is in the current directory
<godbyk> ChrisWoollard: copy main.tex to m.tex and then run 'xelatex m'
<ubuntujenkins> -1
<ubuntujenkins> yey sorted
<ubuntujenkins> @
<ubuntujenkins> @hello
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: great!
<manualbot> ubuntujenkins: Error: "hello" is not a valid command.
<godbyk> thorwil: Maybe I can replace myself with an IRC bot. :)
<ubuntujenkins> I can't think of anything that will call it by mistake now
<ubuntujenkins> yey it is raining outside
<shrini> hello
<shrini> what is this commands?
<thorwil> godbyk: would you like to talk about being replaced?
<godbyk> shrini: commands for what?
<shrini> godbyk: make: *** [ubuntu-manual-ta.pdf] Error 1
<ChrisWoollard> oops, sorry. i missed that. will do it now
<shrini> getting 8 pages only
<godbyk> shrini: Can you paste your ubuntu-manual-ta.log file to paste.ubuntu.com for me?  I'll take a look.
<shrini> sure
 * ubuntujenkins races godbyk to find the error
<godbyk> It's still building the translations here -- it's on the Ks.  Might be a while before I get to TA. :)
<ChrisWoollard> ! I can't write on file `m.pdf'.
<ChrisWoollard> (Press Enter to retry, or Control-D to exit; default file extension is `.pdf')
<ChrisWoollard> Please type another file name for output:
<manualbot> ChrisWoollard: Error: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<ChrisWoollard> You aren't
<ubuntujenkins> the build error is a missing } I am just going to find it
<godbyk> ChrisWoollard: Okay.  Last check:
<shrini> godbyk: http://pastebin.com/52EGmQH0
<godbyk> create a new directory (say ~/test) and create a new .tex file.
<godbyk> in it, write:
<godbyk>  \documentclass{article}
<godbyk>  \usepackage{lipsum}
<godbyk>  \begin{document}
<godbyk>  \lipsum
<godbyk>  \end{document}
<godbyk> then run 'xelatex myfile'
<godbyk> shrini: It looks like you've forgotten a }
<godbyk> shrini: Probably around one of the \marginnote commands.
<ubuntujenkins> I am trying to find it
<shrini> godbyk: where?
<shrini> ok
<godbyk> shrini: Good question. We'll see if ubuntujenkins can find it first. :)
<shrini> :-)
<ChrisWoollard> ! I can't write on file `myfile.pdf'.
<manualbot> ChrisWoollard: Error: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<ubuntujenkins> ok found one I am going to update the translations in luanchpad as i find them
<godbyk> ChrisWoollard: Okay, it sounds like your TeX install might be horked.
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: 'kay. I usually check the box that says 'this translation needs to be verified' or whatever it's called.
<ChrisWoollard> We did do a dull remove and reinstall
<ChrisWoollard> do
<godbyk> that way someone can double-check and ensure I didn't screw something up.
<ubuntujenkins> godbyk: will do
<ChrisWoollard> I'll do another remove and reinstall
<godbyk> ChrisWoollard: I'll have to do some Googling on this one. I've never seen it before.
<godbyk> But it seems odd that it's happy to write to .aux, .log, etc. but not .pdf.
<ChrisWoollard> is there a library that deals with pdf
<dutchie> almost certainly
<godbyk> I think all the PDF stuff that tex and family deal with is internally written. they don't rely on libraries.
<godbyk> but that's just my guess.
<ubuntujenkins> shrini: can you check the transaltions i have marked for review on launchpad please
<godbyk> shrini: Unfortunately, the LaTeX Tamil file I found didn't actually include the translated text I need. (Not sure why.) I've emailed you a list of the words I'll need you guys to translate for me.
<godbyk> shrini: Then I can finish the LaTeX code and get the Tamil fonts working.
<ubuntujenkins> godbyk: I can get the tamil manual working but have no index. is that expected?
<ubuntujenkins> shrini: http://ubuntuone.com/p/6AH/ is my build of the tamil manual
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: yeah, the indexer doesn't know anything about Tamil right now, so it freaks.
<ubuntujenkins> godbyk: cool that explains my one error.
<godbyk> the glossary probably freaks, too.
<ubuntujenkins> I am impressed with only two } missing in the whole translations.
<ubuntujenkins> yea no glossary
<ubuntujenkins> ping me if you want me i am going to do more revision
<shrini> godbyk: checking mail
<daker> guys i think we should change our domain from ubuntu-manual.org to ubuntu-manuals.org
<godbyk> daker: If someone wants to buy ubuntu-manuals.org, it could also be pointed to our site. :)
<c7p> since it's the "ubuntu manual project" i think it's ok the current domain
<shrini> ubuntujenkins: how to check those text in LP?
<shrini> that you marked for review.
<ubuntujenkins> shrini: that is one of them https://translations.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/lucid-e1/+pots/ubuntu-manual/ta/71/+translate
<askhl_> Hi.  Consider a translatable string such as "\newglossaryentry{applet}{name={applet}, description={An applet is a small program that runs in a \gls{panel}. Applets provide useful functions such as starting a program, viewing the time, or accessing the main menu.}}".  Should the first argument of the glossaryentry ("applet") be translated?  Should 'applet' in "name={applet}" be translated?  How should a translator know what to translate?  Is there a docu
<shrini> ubuntujenkins: awesome
<shrini> missed a }
<ubuntujenkins> askhl_: http://files.ubuntu-manual.org/style-guide.pdf
<askhl_> ubuntujenkins, thanks
<shrini> ubuntujenkins: how did you find that?
<ubuntujenkins> there is a chapter for translators
<ubuntujenkins> shrini: its in the /topic
 * c7p ubuntujenkins is quick :)
<shrini> ubuntujenkins: haha
<ubuntujenkins> shrini: with practice there is another one but i can't work out where
<shrini> ubuntujenkins: I asked on how did you find the missing }
<ubuntujenkins> yea i realised. It takes practice
<godbyk> Hey, c7p. I think it's your turn. Where did I leave off with the Greek translation?
<shrini> ubuntujenkins: fine
<ubuntujenkins> shrini: https://translations.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/lucid-e1/+pots/ubuntu-manual/ta/1394/+translate
<ChrisWoollard> What gets me is that ubuntu-manual.com is still available.
<ubuntujenkins> shrini: thats the other one if you can aprove it please
<shrini> ubuntujenkins: approved
<shrini> ubuntujenkins: great
<shrini> job
<shrini> :-)
<godbyk> shrini: If you run 'make ubuntu-manual-ta.tex' then 'xelatex ubuntu-manual-ta', it will tell you what line number the error is near.
<ubuntujenkins> shrini: did you see my link with the manual as it is
<ubuntujenkins> now you tell me godbyk
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: heh. :)
<ubuntujenkins> I have other ways :P
<c7p> godbyk: nice my turn :). The translation and proofreading is completed if that's what you mean.
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: Yeah, the Makefile is set to run through the compilation regardless of errors. But if you run xelatex yourself, it'll go into interactive mode and sometimes give you line numbers and useful hints.
<askhl_> ubuntujenkins, translators normally see only the strings and comments in the Launchpad template.  I suggest that you add a link/reference to that pdf in a very visible place (the launchpad project page or something like that).
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: On the other hand, it sometimes gets confused about what the actual problem is and leads you on wild goose chases.
<ubuntujenkins> askhl_: we have tried to add it to launchpad but there is not a way to
<godbyk> c7p: Okay, let me find my translation editors to do list.  See what else needs to be done. :)
<ubuntujenkins> godbyk: I will try and rember your way my way works well usually
<askhl_> ubuntujenkins, Launchpad will linkify URLs in e.g. the project description.  If you just type it, a translator will find easily find it (it would be the first place to look when in doubt)
<godbyk> askhl_: We can't add text to the top of the translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual page, though.
<askhl_> ubuntujenkins, of course you may not want to add too much 'mess' on the main launchpad project page, so it's just a suggestion in order to minimize the error rate
<godbyk> askhl_: Is there another page you think we should add the link to?
<shrini> ubuntujenkins: 'xelatex ubuntu-manual-ta' breaks in some point
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: Is there a link on the ubuntu-manual.org site to the style guide? If not, we should probably add one. (with the author/editor/translation instructions or something.)
<shrini> how to find the error is on 71 and 1394?
<askhl_> godbyk, give me a moment while I double-check that I didn't miss it in an obvious place (I looked at a few pages before asking here)
<ubuntujenkins> shrini: best not to edit the po file manualy
<godbyk> askhl_: sure.  I think he hasn't been posted or advertised very much, though, and we definitely need to do a better job of that.
<shrini> ubuntujenkins: never did that
<shrini> :-)
<askhl_> godbyk, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-manual/translators <-- this would be one obvious place
<c7p> shiri: if you want some help with bug tracking i'm here
<ubuntujenkins> godbyk: no the pdf is not on the translators section or eitors
<godbyk> askhl_: Yeah, sadly, that's the page where we *can't* add it.
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: we should add it there. :)
<ubuntujenkins> godbyk: yep
<ubuntujenkins> shrini: get launchpad to e-mail the new po file
<ubuntujenkins> we could also add the ppa godbyk
<askhl_> godbyk, what do you mean you can't add it?  Surely you could add an URL?
<askhl_> (to the wikipage I mean.  Don't know about adding files etc.)
<ubuntujenkins> godbyk: we can add the translators pdf to the launchpad home page
<godbyk> askhl_: Oh! Sorry. I misread your url.
<godbyk> askhl_: I'd love to add the link to this page, but it's not possible (yet): https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual
<askhl_> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual <-- I also looked for something at this page (as I know it cannot be added on translations.launchpad.net, the project overview page would be another good entry point)
 * ubuntujenkins adds it to the lauchpad hme page
<askhl_> godbyk, right :)
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: we should also kill the wiki stuff and have it redirect people to your website.
<ubuntujenkins> godbyk: I will do that if you like
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: go for it! If there's stuff on the wiki that we need to add to our site, we should figure that out as well.
 * ubuntujenkins does rm -rf wiki
<ubuntujenkins> what branch is the website?
<daker> ubuntujenkins,  lp:ubuntu-manual-website
<askhl_> ubuntujenkins, godbyk: thank you very much
<ubuntujenkins> godbyk: how do we want the first page of the wiki to look? there is stuff on it thats not on the website I think make all the home page buttons link to the website. delete the "get involved" page
<ChrisWoollard> the wiki has details of meetings
<ubuntujenkins> askhl_: no problem what langauge do you translate out of interest
<ubuntujenkins> I think i will keep the meetings page for now
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: yeah, we probably need to keep the meetings page there.
<ChrisWoollard> not that
<ChrisWoollard> there has been a meeting for a while
<ubuntujenkins> we could do with one
<godbyk> we probably need to have a meeting soon, too.
<ChrisWoollard> How difficult would it be to migrate the meetings page also?
<ubuntujenkins> daker: can you do a button that says "Website" please or "Go to Website"
<daker> sure :S
<daker> sure :D
<ubuntujenkins> thanks
<shrini> ubuntujenkins: wow
<shrini> thanks
<askhl_> ubuntujenkins, Danish.  I'm the coordinator for ubuntu translations, so it's mostly other people who'll do the translations.  I'll see to it that the work runs smoothly etc.
<shrini> got a pdf for 146 page
<ubuntujenkins> askhl_: cool, I like to know whos who
<ubuntujenkins> shrini: yep :P
<shrini> :-)
<shrini> added screenshots too
<shrini> created a folder "ta"
<ubuntujenkins> godbyk: thoughts on putting http://paste.ubuntu.com/445286/ on the top of http://ubuntu-manual.org/getinvolved
<shrini> copied images from en
<shrini> awesome output
<monkeylibre> hi, IÂ´m trying to compile the Spanish traslation to .pdf but always I get http://paste.ubuntu.com/445283/ when I do make, the English version is compiled. What have I do before compiling the traslation? Thanks in advance.
 * ubuntujenkins compiles spanish
<shrini> ubuntujenkins: http://pastebin.com/x9jpgswb
<shrini> ubuntujenkins: got this error along with pdf
<ubuntujenkins> daker: can you e-mail me please xchat transfre never works i think its the uni internet
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: not too bad.  fun is repeated in the last paragraph, though.  maybe the second paragraph will help clear up the 'official' label?
<ubuntujenkins> godbyk: can you submit a suggestion to it please
<godbyk> monkeylibre: Are you using the lucid-e1 or lucid-e2 branch?
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: sure, in just a bit.
<ubuntujenkins> monkeylibre: run make ubuntu-manual-es.pdf
<ubuntujenkins> thanks godbyk
<monkeylibre> lucid-e1
<ubuntujenkins> there are missing } in the translation i wil fix them
<monkeylibre> so must I use the lucid-e2 branch?
<ubuntujenkins> daker: yep tahts fine thanks
<ubuntujenkins> monkeylibre: nope lucid-e1 is fine
<ubuntujenkins> monkeylibre: does "make ubuntu-manual-es.pdf" work?
<monkeylibre> no, but the others traslations also show me the same error http://paste.ubuntu.com/445283/
<ubuntujenkins> monkeylibre: can you run make clean then make please
<ubuntujenkins> then "make ubuntu-manual-es.pdf"
<ubuntujenkins> monkeylibre: can you aprove https://translations.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/lucid-e1/+pots/ubuntu-manual/es/102/+translate please i have added an extra }
<monkeylibre> I did make clean, make and make ubuntu-manual, but i have the same problem also I fixed https://translations.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/lucid-e1/+pots/ubuntu-manual/es/102/+translate
<ubuntujenkins> monkeylibre: you need to do "make ubuntu-manual-es.pdf
<ubuntujenkins> thansk for approving
<monkeylibre> sorry, make clean, make and make ubuntu-manual-es.pdf and also others traslations but I still have the problem
<ubuntujenkins> monkeylibre: hmm
 * ubuntujenkins nudges godbyk 
<godbyk> what's up?
<ubuntujenkins> http://paste.ubuntu.com/445283/ is monkeylibre error he ahs tried  make clean, make and make ubuntu-manual-es.pdf an
<godbyk> Hmm..
<godbyk> Let me look on mine real quick.
<ubuntujenkins> godbyk: mine works there are mising } errors
<godbyk> Yeah, there are some errors there.
<godbyk> monkeylibre: can you paste the results of 'bzr info'?
<ubuntujenkins> I have found one but can't find the next
<godbyk> monkeylibre: also the results of 'cat revision.tex'
<monkeylibre> Standalone tree (format: 2a)
<monkeylibre> Location:
<monkeylibre>   branch root: .
<monkeylibre> Related branches:
<monkeylibre>   parent branch: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-manual/ubuntu-manual/lucid-e2/
<godbyk> monkeylibre: Ah, you're trying to compile lucid-e2.
<godbyk> monkeylibre: You need to check out lucid-e1 instead.
<shrini> godbyk: replied for your mail with the list of tamil words
<godbyk> shrini: great, thanks!  I'll get that code written in a bit.  that should also help with our font problem, too.
<shrini> godbyk: thanks a lot
<godbyk> monkeylibre: you'll need to run 'bzr branch lp:ubuntu-manual/lucid-e1' to get the lucid-e1 branch.
<godbyk> monkeylibre: then running 'make' and 'make ubuntu-manual-es.pdf' should work.  (aside from the errors ubuntujenkins pointed out.)
<ubuntujenkins> daker: thanks for the button
<ubuntujenkins> I have deleted the conributors wiki page and linked to the website if ben wants it back i have a copy locally ( godbyk )
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: works for me.
<daker> ubuntujenkins, no problem
<shrini> godbyk: is it possible to get a neat tamil font in pdf today?
<godbyk> shrini: I don't know when 'today' ends for you, but I'll try to get one in during the next couple hours.
<shrini> hahaha
<godbyk> Right now I'm working on the Greek manual with c7p.
<shrini> okey
<shrini> mytime is now early morning 3
<shrini> will be awake
 * ubuntujenkins can't find the missing }
<godbyk> shrini: okay.  my time is 4:30 in the afternoon.
 * ubuntujenkins found it
<shrini> godbyk: thats fine
<shrini> how do you people get time to hang on IRC in your day time?
<shrini> students?
 * ubuntujenkins is a student but I am always busy/should be doing other things
<godbyk> shrini: It's on a weekend here, so I'm not working.  (I'm also a student, though.)
<godbyk> I usually work from home, so I can be on IRC then.
<godbyk> Sometimes I have to attend meetings, though. :-(
<shrini> great
<shrini> you people are rocking
<ubuntujenkins> monkeylibre: can you approve https://translations.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/lucid-e1/+pots/ubuntu-manual/es/115/+translate please changed ) to } at the end
<ubuntujenkins> that was hard to spot in bright pink
<ubuntujenkins> monkeylibre: this  \\keystroke{Ctrl+Alt+Flecha izquierda o \\"
<ubuntujenkins> "keystroke{Ctrl+Alt+Flecha derecha} para cambiar de espacio rÃ¡pidamente.}" in english is  \\keystroke{Ctrl+Alt+Flecha izquierda o \\"
<ubuntujenkins> "keystroke{Ctrl+Alt+Flecha derecha} para cambiar de espacio rÃ¡pidamente.}" where should the } go is it after the word "izquierda ?
 * ubuntujenkins notes line 2607 (using irc)
<ubuntujenkins> monkeylibre: can you also approve https://translations.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/lucid-e1/+pots/ubuntu-manual/es/494/+translate please
<ubuntujenkins> godbyk: what does this error mean http://paste.ubuntu.com/445297/ ?
<monkeylibre> yes, \\keystroke{Ctrl+Alt+Flecha izquierda} o \\keystroke{Ctrl+Alt+Flecha derecha} para cambiar de espacio rÃ¡pidamente.}
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: there's not much context to tell, but it's probably something messed up with a \screenshot command.
<ubuntujenkins> monkeylibre: thanks i will sort it on launch pad
<godbyk> (given the \floatalignment command as a clue)
<ubuntujenkins> godbyk: I will check the \screenshot ones then
<monkeylibre> also I fixed more wrong traslation but Launchpad hasnÂ´t still imported
<godbyk> monkeylibre: It won't import the po files. You'll have to fix the translations through Launchpad.
<monkeylibre> ok no problems
<ubuntujenkins> godbyk: this is the output of xelatex ubuntu-manual-es any other suggestions these errors are a lot harder to find than normal http://paste.ubuntu.com/445317/
<godbyk> For the glossary entry errors, check to make sure the right stuff is translated, make sure you have all the braces {}, commas, and equals signs in the right place.
<ubuntujenkins> ok I will double check
<godbyk> \newglossaryentry{notranslate}{name={translate}, description={translate}, plural={translate}}
<c7p> I had the same sneaky problem, check also if the command (i.e the "\newglossaryentry") isn't misspelled
<ubuntujenkins> i will do c7p
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: the applet entry has the first parameter translated when it shouldn't be
<ubuntujenkins> thanks godbyk which line?
<godbyk> 12, I think.
<godbyk> (I'm looking at the po file.)
<ubuntujenkins> line 37 in the po file looks mor elikely
<godbyk> same with dialup connection.
<ubuntujenkins> now i see doh! I did not know that
<godbyk> well, that's the line number in the po, yeah.
<godbyk> I thought you meant the line number in the .tex file.
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: line 128 in the po file has the Ethernet port label translated.
<godbyk> line 191: maximize.
<godbyk> line 218: minimize
<godbyk> line 233: notification area
<ubuntujenkins> these are all fixed in alunchpad atm
<godbyk> line 249: output
<godbyk> ah, okay.
<ubuntujenkins> I think i will get the new po file and check it
<ubuntujenkins> thanks godbyk
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: I think the specific error you pointed out was related to line 408 in the po file.
<ubuntujenkins> how do you do it its alot to find in it all
<monkeylibre> thanks for all, tomorrow I will fix all wrongs traslations, bye
<ubuntujenkins> bye monkeylibre I may leave some for you to aprove
<godbyk> Goodbye, monkeylibre.
<daker> ubuntujenkins, have you watched "Prince Of Persia The Sands Of Time" ?
<ubuntujenkins> daker: I have not
<ubuntujenkins> godbyk: there are lots of errors in the spanish translation I have found all i can tonight
<ubuntujenkins> we are on 72 pages so far
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: 'kay.
<ubuntujenkins> they are 100% translated on launchpad so you will have another one to work on :)
<ChrisWoollard> g'night all. until tomorrow.
<daker> ubuntujenkins, http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=1386171529097&ref=share
<ubuntujenkins> night ChrisWoollard
<ubuntujenkins> godbyk: its nice to see lots of translations coming out of the wood work
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: yeah, it's pretty awesome.
<godbyk> I'm working with c7p to create a checklist so that we can get future translations moving faster.
<ubuntujenkins> hopefully I can help in 10 days when i finish
<godbyk> The first one is always the most difficult. :)
<ubuntujenkins> o good then I might be able to help you help the translators
<c7p> godbyk: I hope you haven't forgot that http://typewith.me/rE4pCABOXs :)
<godbyk> c7p: Nope, I haven't forgotten!
<godbyk> That's what I've started with.
<c7p> godbyk: cool :d
<godbyk> I'd like to have a huge checklist of all the niggling details I worry about so that the translation editors and I can just go down the list and check off each item.
<godbyk> Once everything's checked off, we're ready to publish! :)
<godbyk> I have to check with daker, too, to ensure our website is ready for translations.
<godbyk> Lots of stuff going on in the background.
<ubuntujenkins> daker: that film looks really cool
<godbyk> I'm going to find something for supper. Be back in a bit.
<ubuntujenkins> I am off to bed night all
<daker> ubuntujenkins, this Morocco :)
<daker> is*
<ubuntujenkins> looks very pretty
<c7p> wooow lots of stuff cograts godbyk for your effort
<c7p> good night all
#ubuntu-manual 2010-06-06
<shrini> godbyk: hai
<shrini> so far any luck with tamil fonts?
<godbyk> Hey, shrini
<godbyk> A bit, yeah.
<shrini> wow
<godbyk> But now it's finding some errors in the translations.
<shrini> oh
<godbyk> Let me upload the PDF and log file for you.
<shrini> sure
<godbyk> shrini: You can see the PDF here: http://builds.ubuntu-manual.org/builds/ubuntu-manual-ta.pdf
<godbyk> shrini: And the log file (that shows error messages) here: http://builds.ubuntu-manual.org/builds/ubuntu-manual-ta.log
<shrini> please send me the po file
<shrini> then, we need to change the font
<shrini> font is not correct
<godbyk> shrini: I'm just using the po file that's in bzr.
<godbyk> I can change the font if you like.
<shrini> letters are being splitted
<godbyk> shrini: I may not have all the settings right yet.
<shrini> oh
<shrini> okey
<shrini> the heading are still in boxes
<shrini> :-)
<godbyk> Yeah, I haven't fixed the heading fonts yet. Just the main font.
<godbyk> And it's only halfway there. :)
<godbyk> Also, you might take a look at the translator's chapter in the style guide: http://files.ubuntu-manual.org/style-guide.pdf
<godbyk> It looks like you've translated some of the \label{} commands and it doesn't like that.
<godbyk> \label, \chaplink, and \seclink should be left untranslated.
<shrini> hmmm
<shrini> is there any way to find mising }
<godbyk> Just a moment and I'll help you track it down.
<shrini> okey
<godbyk> What font did you recommend we should use?  (It'll have to be an open font that's freely available.)
<shrini> what is the current font you used?
<shrini> godbyk: ?
<godbyk> shrini: The current font is TSCu_Paranar.
<shrini> oh
<shrini> can you try lohit tamil?
<godbyk> Let me see if I have that one.
<shrini> ok
<godbyk> I have that one. Let me set it up.
<shrini> godbyk: wow
<shrini> thats great
<godbyk> shrini: You can download the pdf from the same link as before.
<godbyk> (It still fails to compile, but you can see a bit of the new font.)
<shrini> godbyk: ok
<shrini> this font is awesome
<shrini> godbyk: great font
<shrini> but the works are being splitted often
<shrini> how to avoid that?
<shrini> we do not use justify
<godbyk> The text isn't being justified.
<shrini> words should not be splitted
<godbyk> I don't know yet. I've told it that the text is Tamil, so the font should connect the letters appropriately.
<shrini> :-)
<shrini> ya
<shrini> it should be like that only
<shrini> ?
<shrini> godbyk: you there?
<shrini> troubling you much?
<godbyk> I'm here.
<shrini> godbyk: ok
<shrini> godbyk: how can we find the mising }
<godbyk> Well, we have to find it first.
<godbyk> :)
<shrini> yes
<godbyk> It'll be someplace not far after page 8.
<godbyk> If you can skim through the translations and make sure that each { has a matching }, you should find it fairly quickly.
<godbyk> It looks like a \marginnote{ wasn't closed with }.
<shrini> page 8 in LP?
<godbyk> (On my end, the translations in Launchpad up as boxes, so I'm not much help there, I'm afraid.)
<godbyk> page 8 in the PDF.
<shrini> oh
<shrini> ok
<godbyk> basically, while latex was generating that pdf and started to work on the next page and got stuck.
<godbyk> I'm going to take a break for a little bit. But I'll be back in a while.
<shrini> godbyk: ok
<shrini> bye
<shrini> godbyk: how did ubuntujernkins found the mising } ?
<godbyk> shrini: I don't know.
<shrini> godbyk: i am getting it
<shrini> fixing onebyone
<shrini> :-)
<shrini> what is the time now for you?
<shrini> how long i can trouble you?
<shrini> :-)
<shrini> if possible teach me on how to set lohit tamil font myself
<godbyk> shrini: You can try.  If you open the um-tamil.clo file, you'll see the lines like \newfontfamily\tamilfont. (Ignore the lines that start with %.)  Just change the font name at the end of that line.
<shrini> godbyk: great
<shrini> godbyk: that file is not available with me
<shrini> other languages are there
<godbyk> run 'bzr pull' to make sure you have the latest updates.
<shrini> godbyk: ok
<shrini> :-)
<shrini> godbyk: got that file
<shrini> godbyk: how to mention lohit tamil?
<shrini> the real font name is lohit_ta.ttf
<godbyk> give it the actual name of the font (not the file).
<shrini> godbyk: with space?
<shrini> as "lohit tamil"?
<shrini> any caps?
<godbyk> Just make it look exactly how it does in the font dialog or menu of OpenOffice, for instance.
<shrini> ok
<shrini> godbyk: fine
<shrini> godbyk: got it
<godbyk> 'kay.
<shrini> pdf is good
<shrini> but still there are boxes in many places
<shrini> :-)
<godbyk> yeah, I know.
<shrini> :-)
<shrini> godbyk: need help
<shrini> power may go down here for 3 hrs
<godbyk> 'kay.
<shrini> I request you to fix the font issue asap
<shrini> and mail me if i am not there in irc
<shrini> have to finish the full pdf today
<shrini> :-)
<shrini> trying our best to bring the pdf for release party
<godbyk> I'll work on the font stuff, but I can't make any promises.
<shrini> :-)
<godbyk> Does the Lohit Tamil font look okay for the body text or is it still messed up?
<shrini> lohit tamil is perfect
<godbyk> ok
<shrini> but when we mix english with that, it shows only boxes
<godbyk> Ah, right. That's because the Lohit Tamil font doesn't have the English letters in it.
<godbyk> To work around that, you can add \textenglish{Ubuntu} to get it to use the English font.
<godbyk> (Just wrap the English words in \textenglish{...})
<shrini> lohit tamil has english with it
<godbyk> Not that I see.
<shrini> any fix?
<godbyk> When I load Lohit Tamil into my font viewer and tell it to show me all the glyphs, I see the Tamil glyphs, the numbers, some punctuation, and that's it.
<shrini> use in OO
<godbyk> It must be using a fallback font.
<shrini> oh
<shrini> godbyk: anyother easy fix?
<shrini> \textenglish{Ubuntu} adding this is a tedious job
<shrini> )
<shrini> :-)
<godbyk> Yes, it is.
<godbyk> The easier fix is to select a font that has both Tamil and English glyphs.
<shrini> godbyk: okey
<shrini> one good news
<shrini> fixed the existing missing }
<shrini> got the pdf without any error for 196 pages
<shrini> still index are missing
<shrini> not an issue for now
<shrini> :-)
<shrini> thanks a lot
<shrini> now, only font issue is there
<godbyk> great!
<shrini> let me search for that
<godbyk> yeah, the index and glossary are separate issues.
<shrini> how to find wether a font has both english and tamil in it?
<godbyk> well, you can just give it a try and see. :)
<godbyk> or run 'otfinfo -s myfont.ttf'
<godbyk> It needs to list Tamil and Latin
<humphreybc> godbyk: so what's the story with translations anyway?
<godbyk> What story?
<humphreybc> when are we going to see em? :P
<godbyk> We might see the Greek edition this week.
<humphreybc> hooray for progress
<shrini> humphreybc: trying to bring tamil pdf today for our ubuntu release party
<shrini> stuck with font issue
<shrini> godbyk is helping me a lot
<shrini> he is really like god
<shrini> :-)
<shrini>  otfinfo -s lohit_ta.ttf
<shrini> taml		Tamil
<shrini> godbyk: lohit tamil has only one
<shrini> :-(
<shrini> godbyk: i am finding the font
<shrini> please look on other font issues
<godbyk> shrini: Which other font issues?
<shrini> some heading are still in boxes
<shrini> some marginnotes
<shrini> etc
<godbyk> shrini: Ah, once you find a font, I can fix that.
<shrini> ok
<shrini> testing with some fonts
<shrini> godbyk: your current time?
<godbyk> It's 23:00
<shrini> OMG
<shrini> sorry
<shrini> troubling you much
<godbyk> Not at all.
<shrini> still finding a suitable font
<godbyk> I'm a night owl.
<shrini> :-)
<godbyk> I'll be up for a while yet.
<shrini> thanks
<shrini> godbyk: please have the font "TSCu_Paranar" for now
<shrini> and get the pdf
<shrini> you can see boxes in headings and in some places
<shrini> godbyk: please fix those
<shrini> godbyk: can we use arial unicode ms ?
<shrini> it is the font comes with MS Office
<shrini> hehe
<godbyk> We should stick with open fonts if we can. Otherwise, many people won't be able to compile the PDF.
<shrini> :-)
<shrini> true
<shrini> the font "tscu paranar" is perfect in OO
<shrini> but some splitted in pdf
<shrini> godbyk: any idea?
<godbyk> I've uploaded the PDF and LOG files again, so you can see that TSCu_Paranar looks like.
<godbyk> I just downloaded a new copy of the translation from Launchpad.  Uploading a new PDF now.
<godbyk> Okay, it's uploaded.
<shrini> godbyk: wow
<shrini> found the proper font
<shrini> http://www.kamban.com.au/fonts/
<shrini> akshar.ttf
<shrini> it is listted here too http://www.wazu.jp/gallery/Fonts_Tamil.html
<shrini> godbyk: please us this font and create pdf
<shrini> check for other box issues
<shrini> thanks a lot for bearing my troubles
<shrini> :-)
<godbyk> shrini: Uploaded.
<shrini> godbyk: link?
<shrini> lost the link
<shrini> with which font?
<godbyk> http://builds.ubuntu-manual.org/
<shrini> ok
<godbyk> With Akshar Unicode.
<shrini> wow
<shrini> awesome
<shrini> thanks a lot
<shrini> let try making here
<shrini> ur pdf version shows all fonts perfectly
<shrini> my version shows some boxes
<shrini> why?
<godbyk> Because I have some newer versions of files that you don't.
<godbyk> I've just committed those files to bzr.
<godbyk> So run 'bzr pull' and recompile.
<godbyk> There are will errors in the build.
<shrini> okey
<shrini> bzr pull gives 3 conflits
<shrini> Using saved parent location: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-manual/ubuntu-manual/main/
<shrini>  M  gloss-tamil.ldf
<shrini>  M  po/ta.po
<shrini> RN  um-tamil.clo => um-tamil.clo.OTHER
<shrini> Text conflict in po/ta.po
<shrini> Contents conflict in um-tamil.clo
<shrini> Conflict adding id to um-tamil.clo.OTHER.  Unversioned existing file um-tamil.clo.
<shrini> 3 conflicts encountered.
<shrini> Now on revision 868.
<godbyk> run: bzr resolve po/ta.po
<godbyk> then: bzr revert po/ta.po
<godbyk> oh, and: bzr resolve um-tamil.co
<godbyk> and: bzr revert um-tamil.po
<shrini> no use
<godbyk> run 'bzr status' and tell me what it says.
<shrini> I moved the two files ta.po and um-tamil.clo
<godbyk> delete the po/ta.po* and um-tamil.clo* files
<godbyk> then run 'bzr revert po/ta.po um-tamil.clo'
<shrini1> shrinivasan@shrinivasan-laptop:~/ubuntu-manual/lucid-e1$ bzr status
<shrini1> removed:
<shrini1>   po/ta.po
<shrini1>   um-tamil.clo
<shrini1> unknown:
<shrini1>   m/
<shrini1>   screenshots/ta/
<shrini1> conflicts:
<shrini1>   Contents conflict in um-tamil.clo
<shrini1>   Conflict adding id to um-tamil.clo.OTHER.  Unversioned existing file um-tamil.clo.
<godbyk> type 'bzr resolve um-tamil.clo' then run 'bzr status' again. see if anything's changed.
<shrini1> godbyk: power problem
<shrini1> i moved the existing um-tamil.clo to another folder
<shrini1> need to get updated from repo
<shrini1> only that file and the po file
<shrini1> how to pull those files?
<shrini1> powercut here
<shrini1> godbyk: working with ups
<shrini1> very soon will go down
<shrini1> :-(
<godbyk> just run 'bzr revert um-tamil.po po/ta.po'
<godbyk> and it should restore those files to match what's in bzr.
<shrini1> oh
<shrini1> grear
<shrini1> bzr: ERROR: Path(s) are not versioned: um-tamil.po
<godbyk> rm um-tamil.po*
<godbyk> bzr pull
<godbyk> then run 'bzr status' and tell me what it says.
<shrini1> doing
<shrini1> if disconnected, will rush to any friend home in 20-30 min
<godbyk> heh. okay.
<shrini1> removed:
<shrini1>   po/ta.po
<shrini1>   um-tamil.clo
<shrini1> unknown:
<shrini1>   m/
<shrini1>   screenshots/ta/
<shrini1> this is output of bzr status
<shrini1> bzr pull says tat
<shrini1> Using saved parent location: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-manual/ubuntu-manual/main/
<shrini1> No revisions to pull.
<shrini1> messed anything?
<shrini1> godbyk: ?
<godbyk> type:
<godbyk> bzr revert po/ta.po
<godbyk> bzr revert um-tamil.clo
<godbyk> then run 'bzr status' again.
<shrini1> bzr revert po/ta.po
<shrini1>  N  po/ta.po
<shrini1> removed:
<shrini1>   um-tamil.clo
<shrini1> unknown:
<shrini1>   m/
<shrini1>   screenshots/ta/
<godbyk> bzr revert um-tamil.clo
<shrini1> wow
<shrini1> it worked
<shrini1> thanks
<shrini1> got those files now
<shrini1> are they latest?
<godbyk> yep
<godbyk> now you can run 'make clean' and 'make ubuntu-manual-ta.pdf'
<shrini1> did it
<shrini1> got the same pdf as u gave
<shrini1> thanks a lot
<shrini1> any way to generate index?
<shrini1> :-)
<godbyk> We have to do some work to make the index.
<godbyk> The indexer doesn't understand Tamil, so we will have to teach it.
<godbyk> (It needs to know how to alphabetize Tamil words.)
<shrini1> oh
<shrini1> really great
<shrini1> easy task?
<shrini1> or a time taking one?
<godbyk> I have no idea. I hope so!  I'll have to find the documentation to see how we do that.
<godbyk> And you'll have to teach me how to alphabetize Tamil words. :)
<godbyk> Once we've taught the indexer how to alphabetize Tamil words, the glossary and index should start working.
<shrini1> great
<shrini1> why can we see how it works normally?
<shrini1> think it will work fine
<godbyk> It won't.
<godbyk> Because the indexer doesn't understand the Tamil letters at all.
<godbyk> So it gives up.
<godbyk> When you run 'make ubuntu-manual-ta.pdf', it's trying to create the glossary and index. But it's failing. (That's why you don't see the index and glossary in the PDF.)
<shrini1> oh
<shrini1> okok
<shrini1> i say the alphabetization will work fine with unicode
<shrini1> may be
<godbyk> I don't know if the indexer knows anything about unicode, though.
<shrini1> hmmm
<shrini1> fine
<godbyk> I'll have to read some of the documentation and see what we have to do.
<shrini1> godbyk: okey
<shrini1> thanks a lot for your patience and help
<shrini1> will fix missing translations and
<shrini1> try our best to release alpha version of tamil manual in release party
<godbyk> cool.  let me know how it goes!
<godbyk> If you translate the \title and \author strings, I'll have thorwil make a title page.
<shrini1> sure
<shrini1> will do
<shrini1> godbyk: thanks a lot
<shrini1> getting good pdf
<shrini1> hope enough for alpha release
<godbyk> Alpha releases are to work out the kinks. :)
<shrini1> godbyk: kninks means?
<godbyk> In this context, it refers to small problems, bugs, etc.
<shrini1> godbyk: okey
<ubuntujenkins> morning all
<humphreybc-mini> hey Luke
<godbyk> bedtime for me. see you all in some number of hours.
<godbyk> (gonna read before I go to sleep)
<ubuntujenkins> hey humphreybc-mini
<ubuntujenkins> night godbyk
<ubuntujenkins> humphreybc-mini: I started pointing the wiki to the website, removed the "get involved page" and changed some of the links
<humphreybc-mini> yeah I saw that, thanks
<ubuntujenkins> I am not sure what else needs moving over apart from quickshot when I sort out web content
<humphreybc-mini> I'm going to do a new website for Quickshot soon
<ubuntujenkins> coll I finish exams in 9 days so I have time to do more quickshot stuff
<ubuntujenkins> *cool
<humphreybc-mini> it'll probably live on ubuntu-manual.org/quickshot for the meantime until someone buys quickshot.org
 * humphreybc-mini thinks ubuntujenkins should buy quickshot.org
<ubuntujenkins> I think we decided on quickshot.ubuntu-manual.org , I don't have much money at the moment
<humphreybc-mini> $15 USD a year
<humphreybc-mini> you could probably find it cheaper somewhere
<humphreybc-mini> but yeah, subdomain of ubuntu-manual.org is all good
<ubuntujenkins> we figured until we got tons of publication adn used by other teams there wasn't much point doing it
<humphreybc-mini> yeah
<humphreybc-mini> fair nuff
<daker> hello :)
<ubuntujenkins> hello daker
<ubuntujenkins> what versions of linux should the quickshot team make quickshot work for? I currently have ubuntu debian fedora I need to sort out all the virtual machines i can before i finish this uni year
<daker> All linux version ubuntujenkins :D
<daker> versions*
<ubuntujenkins> yea theres a lot I am aiming to make virtual machines of as many as i can
<popey> ubuntujenkins: suse?
<ubuntujenkins> popey: does suse use qt? how does it handle gtk?
 * ubuntujenkins get suse
<thorwil> ubuntujenkins: for ubuntu, one could argue that you only need to support the release in development
<ubuntujenkins> thorwil: I think we shoudl support the current release
<thorwil> ubuntujenkins: otherwise, fedora, open-suse and arch-linux seem to be the other big ones, now
<thorwil> arg, plus debian, of course
<thorwil> ubuntujenkins: http://distrowatch.com/ if you want to compile a longer list
<ubuntujenkins> thanks thorwil I will get arch as well.
<ubuntujenkins> I had seen distrowatch but then the list is long!
 * ubuntujenkins hmmm fedora 13 is not completing the install
<thorwil> ubuntujenkins: don't worry to much of what could or should be the job of packagers
<dutchie> gentoo!
 * thorwil used gentoo for a while, but then decided life is too short for that
<popey> ubuntujenkins: dunno
<ubuntujenkins> thanks popey
<ubuntujenkins> why gentoo dutchie ?
<dutchie> just a suggestion of another distro
<ubuntujenkins> thanks dutchie I will add it
<ubuntujenkins> laptop has locked up from downloading to much at once
 * thorwil runs ie6 via wine for testing purposes, but still feels dirty
<daker> ie6 is very BAB
<dutchie> Just Don't Bother
<daker> BAD
<dutchie> http://www.joshh.co.uk/internet-explorer-and-web-standards
<dutchie> oh dear, it got spammed again
<thorwil> i wouldn't bother, if it wasn't for a client
<ubuntujenkins> i like this http://www.ie6nomore.com/code-samples.html
<daker> http://browsehappy.com/why/
<thorwil> how can i do a line break in a bash script and get it to ignore it (act as if the line continues)?
<dutchie> backslash at the end of line
<thorwil> ty
<Andre_Gondim> how do I get this manual em pt_BR?
<thorwil> Andre_Gondim: pt_BR is still incomplete. or are you asking how you can build a PDF of the current state yourself?
<Andre_Gondim> thorwil, yeah, How may I build the PDF?
<dutchie> http://builds.ubuntu-manual.org/
<Andre_Gondim> I will try, thanks ;)
<thorwil> yeah, that's a lot easier
<thorwil> otherwise, if texlive is in place, it should be "make ubuntu-manual-pt_BR.pdf", i think
<Andre_Gondim> I see 7 errors, but I don't know where, is it possible to point the strings with error?
<dutchie> ask godbyk
<ubuntujenkins> Andre_Gondim: I will try and fix them before i go to bed tonight and will leave any corrections to be aproved in launchpad. I can't do them now as I am revising
<Andre_Gondim> ok
<ubuntujenkins> I am going to turn my latop off for a few hours so i can concentrate be back about 9pm bst
<shrini> godbyk: hai
<shrini> we made the ubuntu release party today
<shrini> released the manual
<godbyk> shrini: Hey. How was it?
<shrini> thanks a lot for your assistance
<shrini> and bearing all my troubles
<shrini> :-)
<godbyk> No problem. That's what I'm here for.
<godbyk> How's the release party go?
<shrini> :-)
<shrini> thanks a lot
<shrini> godbyk: we need to work on other things like index
<shrini> can you do one favour?
<shrini> we need the screenshots in the pdf
<shrini> there is no seperate tamil screenshots
<shrini> we can use the english screenshots
<shrini> can you place the english screenshots and produce the pdf?
<godbyk> Do you use US English or UK English
<dutchie> ITYM "US English" or "English" :P
<godbyk> dutchie: Heh.. Fair point.  But I believe you guys will come around to our way of thinking.
<dutchie> Never!
<dutchie> though you've already managed it with billions
<godbyk> dutchie: Your language will be assimilated. Resistance is futile.
<daker> who's editing the developers manual ?
<thorwil> daker: rickspencer, if i don't mix something up
<daker> thorwil, thanks
<daker> Elementary rocks!!!
<ubuntujenkins> Andre_Gondim: I will look at your errors now
<Andre_Gondim> ubuntujenkins, sounds good :D
<ubuntujenkins> Andre_Gondim: this is wrong \menu{Editar\ e depois em Copiar} the word this bit "\then" should stay in "\menu{Edit\then Copy}"
<ubuntujenkins> full string https://translations.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/lucid-e1/+pots/ubuntu-manual/pt_BR/+translate?batch=10&show=all&search=+os+atalhos+de+teclado
<Andre_Gondim> let me c
<ubuntujenkins> I don't speek pt_BR so I don't know what reads
<ubuntujenkins> also see http://files.ubuntu-manual.org/style-guide.pdf for more detail on what should be translated
<Andre_Gondim> ubuntujenkins, anything else?
<ubuntujenkins> Andre_Gondim: not yet I need to just add that phrase in and find the next problem
<Andre_Gondim> ok
<ubuntujenkins> Andre_Gondim: can you change this one to my version please https://translations.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/lucid-e1/+pots/ubuntu-manual/pt_BR/297/+translate . I chnaged the end bracket
<Andre_Gondim> let me see
<ubuntujenkins> it went from ) to } at the end
<Andre_Gondim> done it! :D
<ubuntujenkins> and this one same thing but half way though https://translations.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/lucid-e1/+pots/ubuntu-manual/pt_BR/308/+translate
<ubuntujenkins> ok there is one error left which is because of the glossry and index needs setting up. I don't know how to do that.
<ubuntujenkins> godbyk: can you teach me how to set the glossery and index up at some point please
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: What do you mean by 'set them up'?
<ubuntujenkins> make them work so they appear at the end of the pdf
<godbyk> They should automatically, assuming that the indexer knows the language.
<godbyk> (If it doesn't know the language then we have to teach it. I have to read up on that.)
<godbyk> If you run 'man xindy' and scroll down a ways, you'll see the list of languages it supports.
<godbyk> If one of those languages matches the language you're trying to compile, then it should Just Work.
<godbyk> If it doesn't, make sure that the language codes are set up in the langcodes.txt file.
<ubuntujenkins> I am trying to do portuguese brazilian xindy supports portuguese
<ubuntujenkins> hmm in the .txt the xindy langauge is portuguese but it doesn't work
<godbyk> What's the xindy program tell you? (what errors?)
<ubuntujenkins> when running make ubuntu.........pdf?
<godbyk> Run: xindy -C utf8 -M texindy -L portuguese ubuntu-manual-pt_BR.idx
<godbyk> (Assuming that's the right language name for xindy. I didn't look.)
<ubuntujenkins> http://paste.ubuntu.com/445750/
<ubuntujenkins> looks good to me
<godbyk> yeah. so the index should work fine.
<ubuntujenkins> how come I don't get one in the pdf then?
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: Not sure yet.
<godbyk> My laptop is regenerating all the PDFs right now, so I can't disturb it.
<godbyk> Any errors in the ubuntu-manual-pt_BR.log file?
<ubuntujenkins> running xelatex ubuntu-manual-pt_BR gives http://paste.ubuntu.com/445752/ but make worked except for 1 error I thought it was the index. just looking at the log file
<ubuntujenkins> make did work I think i madea typo in the po file
<godbyk> On mine it's dying due to a LaTeX error (typo in the translation).
<ubuntujenkins> godbyk: I will paste bin a better po file in a second
<godbyk> k
<ubuntujenkins> there are problems with the glossary stuff being translated when it shouldn't
<ubuntujenkins> Andre_Gondim: in launchpad can you do a search for \newglossaryentry please and any thing in the first brackets should stay the same in this one
<ubuntujenkins> \newglossaryentry{conexÃ£o discada}{name={conexÃ£o discada}, description={Uma
<ubuntujenkins> conexÃ£o discada Ã© quando seu computador utiliza um modem para conectar-se a
<ubuntujenkins> um \gls{ISP} (Provedor de ServiÃ§os de Internet} atravÃ©s da linha
<ubuntujenkins> telefÃ´nica.}}
<ubuntujenkins> this bit {conexÃ£o discada}  should be in english
<Andre_Gondim> hmmmmmm, ok
<ubuntujenkins> It would be great if you could check those please
<ubuntujenkins> see the pdf i linked if you are confused
<Andre_Gondim> ubuntujenkins, like this https://translations.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/lucid-e1/+pots/ubuntu-manual/pt_BR/8/+translate
<c7p> Andre_Gondim: there is a nice document explaining almost everything http://files.ubuntu-manual.org/style-guide.pdf . Check it, find common mistakes, search for them on launchpad and correct them. This way a lot of time is saved ;)
<ubuntujenkins> Andre_Gondim: you got it :)
<ubuntujenkins> godbyk: ignore any errors i posted before I am getting confused with two different languages :/
<ubuntujenkins> godbyk: just e-mailed you the po file paste bin has a fit if i put it in there
<ubuntujenkins> pastbin/chromium
<ubuntujenkins> the log for the build is http://paste.ubuntu.com/445758/
<ubuntujenkins> is it because of the bit between {} being translated?
<godbyk> ok
<ubuntujenkins> hopefully by learning now I can save you time in the future :)
<ubuntujenkins> thats the secret plane :P
<ubuntujenkins> *plan
<godbyk> Is this log file with the po file you emailed me?
<godbyk> There's still a bunch of translation/LaTeX bugs.
<ubuntujenkins> the past bin ^ is the log file for the po file i sent.
<godbyk> okay. there are a bunch of errors in your po file still, then. :)
<ubuntujenkins> it builds to the end, I am confused
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: if you search the log file for lines beginning with !, you'll find the errors.
<godbyk> Well, it's building because the Makefile tells LaTeX to just keep going and ignore the errors (if it can).
<ubuntujenkins> ok some of them are glossry errors which Andre_Gondim is fixing
<Andre_Gondim> -]
<Andre_Gondim> =]
<ubuntujenkins> Andre_Gondim: what is this word in english ? \depois
<Andre_Gondim> ubuntujenkins, hmmmm, I belive is "then"
<ubuntujenkins> godbyk: I under stand I will try and fix all these errors
<ubuntujenkins> Andre_Gondim: can you do a search for \depois and replace it with \then please
<Andre_Gondim> just a minute
<ubuntujenkins> no probelm in a \menu{random text } the \then bit should stay . If i rember correctly it makes an >
<ubuntujenkins> Andre_Gondim: I think once the \depois and the glossry entires are corrected we shoul have no errors
<Andre_Gondim> ubuntujenkins, I think is everything correct, can you check it?
<ubuntujenkins> Andre_Gondim: I will get launchpad to send me a po file and I will find out
<ubuntujenkins> it wil be 5 to 10 minutes
<Andre_Gondim> ok
<ubuntujenkins> which other pdf did i start on last night? I didn't manage to finish before i went to bed
<ubuntujenkins> is a spanish translator here?>
<c7p> sry but from what I see many \gls commands aren't ok, the gls command shouldn't be translated
<ubuntujenkins> is that at me c7p ?
<c7p> no at Andre_Gondim
<ubuntujenkins> ok
<c7p> Believe me you waste too much time doing this. The command line error finding (through the compilation of the pdf) should be one of the last steps of the whole translation progress. As I said previously the best thing you can do is to search for common command translation bugs etc e.g \gls , \menu, glspl,.
<godbyk> c7p: Not a bad idea.  I could probably write a script to do some of that.  Ensure that things that shouldn't be translated haven't been translated.
<godbyk> I'll work on that in a bit.
<godbyk> c7p: I'm still going through your PDF.  So far everything's looking good.
<c7p> nice :D
<ubuntujenkins> Andre_Gondim: if you change all the \gls{} back to english change all the \depois to \then I think thats most of the errors
<godbyk> c7p: One thing I noticed though (and this is the fault of po4a, not yours) is that po4a screws up the line wraps of some things.
<godbyk> c7p: We need to check the terminal environments (\begin{terminal} .. \end{terminal}) and the credits to ensure that the line breaks haven't been mangled by po4a.
<ubuntujenkins> Andre_Gondim: some of the \then have been changed to \e depois
<Andre_Gondim> let me fix it, just a moment
<ubuntujenkins> Andre_Gondim: no rush :) . just letting you know
<c7p> godbyk: So i have to check all terminal inputs and credits to see that everything is fine?
<godbyk> c7p: Yeah, just compare them to make sure the line breaks are where they should be.  If they're not, you can edit them in the ubuntu-manual-el.tex file.
<godbyk> c7p: I know some of the credits are wrapped incorrectly, but I haven't checked the terminal output yet.
 * ubuntujenkins finds the extra }
<godbyk> Fresh builds should be online at http://builds.ubuntu-manual.org/ now.
<c7p> all command output are in place and there are no break line issues, appart from the command on 6341 (cd "\textasciitilde/ÎÎ¿ÏÏÎ¹ÎºÎ®/The Beatles/Sgt. etc)
<c7p> line 6341*
<c7p> could you move the ``Lonely Hearts Club Band/"}'' on the same line that the rest of the command is?
<godbyk> c7p: done.
<godbyk> c7p: I'm fixing the credits right now, too.
<c7p> oh man you are quick :D
<ubuntujenkins> godbyk: spanish is error free ! which one should i do next?
<ubuntujenkins> tranlators hout if you want me to fix your latex errors
<ubuntujenkins> by error free i mean no ! in. there sin't any thing else i should look for?
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: I'd probably sort by completeness and start at the top.
 * ubuntujenkins completes greek :P
<godbyk> Hey, c7p, the last three lines of so of the credits.. where do the line-breaks go?
 * ubuntujenkins starts on german
 * ubuntujenkins completes german
<ubuntujenkins> our translators are translating hard, there is loads done
<godbyk> I know.
<godbyk> Our translators rock!
 * ubuntujenkins agrees
<c7p> hm
<c7p> godbyk: you mean after \ldots ?
<godbyk> c7p: after Matthew Paul Thomas.  I broke the lines like this:
<godbyk> ÎÎ¼Î¬Î´Î± Î¤ÎµÎºÎ¼Î·ÏÎ¯ÏÏÎ·Ï ÏÎ¿Ï Mozilla Firefox
<godbyk> ÎÎ¼Î¬Î´Î± Î¤ÎµÎºÎ¼Î·ÏÎ¯ÏÏÎ·Ï ÏÎ¿Ï Ubuntu
<godbyk> Ubuntu Community Learning Project
<godbyk> Is that correct?
<godbyk> c7p: I've uploaded the PDF and log file to http://builds.ubuntu-manual.org/ if you want to take a look at it.
<c7p> great! that's right
<ubuntujenkins> are we spelling dialup like dial-up or dialup? in the english uk the \newglossaryentry has it as dialup but the \gls as dial-up
<ubuntujenkins> ok the whole manual is in consistant in the use of the word
<c7p> ubuntujenkins: wikipedia has it as dial-up. We trust wikipedia !
<c7p> godbyk: is there anything that I can do for you?
<godbyk> c7p: I don't have anything else for you yet. I'll let you know, though.
<godbyk> (I'm just going through the PDF and making a list of all the things I need to check for each translation.  So far everything in yours is looking good.)
<c7p> very nice
<godbyk> I may edit the text in the colophon a bit. I need to double-check the fonts we're using.  But if I do, it'll only be a sentence or two that needs to be retranslated.
<c7p> I have added some new notes on etherpad doc
<godbyk> c7p: Thanks! That doc is going to help a lot.
<c7p> yes it will
<godbyk> Once we publish a couple of these translations, I think we'll have quite the checklist. :)
<c7p> yes
<c7p> it's very interesting how thing progress
<godbyk> Yeah, there are a million details to fret about, it seems. :)
<godbyk> With the original English text, I can fix most of the little issues myself without bothering anyone.
<godbyk> With the translations, I have to rely on the translators to help out a lot, since I can't read the text.
<godbyk> I just have to assume that the Greek manual isn't filled with complete gibberish. ;-)
<c7p> hehe
<c7p> I remember when many people were on this channel telling their opinion about the margin notes, padding etc ... now we have the manual completed and here come the translated edition ... there are also plans for future releases. This project and it's people rock :)
<ubuntujenkins> I am off to bed, there are now no errors in Galician,German, Greek, Spanish, English uk and asturian . Top 6
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: awesome job! thanks!
<ubuntujenkins> depending on how revision goes tomorrow I will do more. no problem godbyk i like to learn and help :)
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: maybe I'll get time this evening to write a little python script to help find errors more quickly.
<c7p> good job ubuntujenkins
<ubuntujenkins> godbyk: I am getting quite quick, so don't worry if you don't have time
<godbyk> cool
<ubuntujenkins> night all 0/
<c7p> night ubuntujenkins
<godbyk> g'night, ubuntujenkins!
<c7p> I g2g also
<ubuntujenkins> night c7p
<c7p> g'night all
#ubuntu-manual 2011-05-30
<koolhead11> hi all
<jongbergs> hi, where can I look for ubuntu resources particularly in presentation slides format regarding "intro to ubunt" designed for beginners..
#ubuntu-manual 2011-06-01
<shrini> hei guys
<shrini> sorry guys
<shrini> i was out of station for a month
<shrini> will work on ubuntu-manual in the coming days
#ubuntu-manual 2011-06-02
<Andre_Gondim> godbyk, any news about lucid-e2 in pt_BR, I made those fix
<godbyk> Hey, Andre_Gondim. I just got back from a long weekend and haven't looked at it yet.
<godbyk> If you've made the changes, I'll pull the latest .po file and run it again tonight and see if there are any remaining errors.
<shrinivasan> issyl0: hai
<issyl0> shrinivasan: Hi!
<issyl0> shrinivasan: How are things?
<shrinivasan> issyl0: hai
<shrinivasan> issyl0: yes
<shrinivasan> geting back to work
<shrinivasan> after a long break due to ill
<issyl0> Ah, right.
<issyl0> shrinivasan: Better now though?
<shrinivasan> tired of seeting some 500 emails
<shrinivasan> to reply
<shrinivasan> yes
<shrinivasan> i am doing good
<issyl0> shrinivasan: Ah, right.  Built up emails are never good.
<shrinivasan> yes
<shrinivasan> reading and replying for all emails
<shrinivasan> its good to know that people miss us when we are not onlinr
<issyl0> Yeah!
<issyl0> Re: the manual chapter, I've not had much time either - exams.  :-(
<shrinivasan> the responsibilities are increasing always
<shrinivasan> issyl0: oh
<shrinivasan> issyl0: are you a student?
<shrinivasan> good to know
<issyl0> shrinivasan: Yes, I am.
<shrinivasan> what do you study?
<shrinivasan> awesome
<issyl0> Maths, English, Computing and French.
<shrinivasan> wow
<shrinivasan> where?
<issyl0> In the UK.  I'm in my first year of A Levels.
<shrinivasan> great
<shrinivasan> wishes
<issyl0> And next year I'm going to study Computing, English, Italian and something else that I haven't decided on yet.  :P
<issyl0> shrinivasan: What do you do, can I ask?
<issyl0> shrinivasan: Thank you.  :-)
<shrinivasan> sure
<shrinivasan> i am a tech support guy
<shrinivasan> working in a company called CollabNet
<shrinivasan> providing support for subversion
<shrinivasan> little old guy
<shrinivasan> finished engineering college 7 years back
<shrinivasan> :-)
<issyl0> "You're only as old as you think you are" is the saying.  ;-)
<shrinivasan> issyl0: true
<shrinivasan> :-)
<shrinivasan> just kidding
<issyl0> But cool, that's interesting.  :-)
<shrinivasan> i will look on our chapter stuff in this weekend
<shrinivasan> will pdate you
<shrinivasan> s/pdate/update
<issyl0> OK, thank you.
<issyl0> I will have a look too, then we can compare notes.  :-)
<shrinivasan> sure
<shrinivasan> thanks
<c7p> hello all
<MichealH> Hey c7p
#ubuntu-manual 2011-06-04
<Infosoft> godbyk: ping :)
#ubuntu-manual 2011-06-05
<godbyk> Anyone around?
* godbyk changed the topic of #ubuntu-manual to: Ubuntu Manual Project discussion | Maverick edition released! | Style Guide: http://files.ubuntu-manual.org/style-guide.pdf | Website: http://ubuntu-manual.org | Launchpad: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual | IRC logs: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com
<semioticrobotic> Congratulations to the team on a successful release!
<c7p> yeah congrats !
#ubuntu-manual 2012-05-28
<godbyk> thorwil: Interestingly, it looks like I'm increasing the number of lines per page (text block height) from 44 to 54 for US letter paper, but not adjusting A4 paper's default of 49 lines.  I'll have to look into that.
<thorwil> godbyk: thanks. let me know if you do change any margin
<godbyk> thorwil: I will. I apparently haven't done much with A4 in a while. I'll revisit that after we get this US English edition published.
<godbyk> Virtual machines are rather handy.
<hannie> hi vibhav how are you dong?
<hannie> *doing
<hannie> and hi herat too, of course
<vibhav> Im fine
<vibhav> Looking for some last minute changes
<hannie> ok
<hannie> next week I hope to get more people who will help editing the manual
<vibhav> from where?
<hannie> omg, planet etc.
<vibhav> cool
<hannie> I have to send a good story on what we expect editors to do exactly
<hannie> and I haven't figured out what I want to write yet
#ubuntu-manual 2012-05-29
<benonsoftware> godbyk: Ping
<tomswartz07> hey all
<tomswartz07> what was our decision on the Troubleshooting chapter?
<tomswartz07> I remember that we were unsure if it should stay, but what was the final decision?
#ubuntu-manual 2012-05-30
<benonsoftware> godbyk: Ping
<godbyk> benonsoftware: pong
<benonsoftware> godbyk: Hi, are you the person I should talk to about a tiny daily in the glossary?
<benonsoftware> (I'm in charge of that & index)
<benonsoftware> godbyk: I was wondeirng if I can have a couple more days for the glossary as I'm sick at the moment?
<godbyk> benonsoftware: Sure!
<benonsoftware> Thank you
<godbyk> The index and glossary can be done during the editing phase as well.
<godbyk> (It's hard to index things when people are constantly modifying the chapter text.)
<godbyk> Do you know how to write glossary entries and how to index things?
<benonsoftware> Yes, I was going to wait to do that ;)
<benonsoftware> Yeah
<benonsoftware> (Just to let you know I'm not very good at tex)
<godbyk> Okay, cool.  If you have any questions about it or run into any snags, let me know.
<benonsoftware> Thanks
<godbyk> The glossary entries are fairly easy to handle (though they give bad error messages if you screw up the syntax.)
<godbyk> The index entries are a bit tricker because there are multiple ways to write them depending on how you want it to appear in the index.
<benonsoftware> Okies, I'll have a look at past glossary's to see how to do it
<benonsoftware> Yep
<godbyk> But we can discuss that when you're feeling better and are ready to start indexing.
<benonsoftware> Thanks
<godbyk> No problem.
<godbyk> Thanks for helping us out!
<benonsoftware> :)
<hannie> tomswartz07, are you here?
#ubuntu-manual 2012-05-31
<tomswartz07> hannie: I am now! sorry
<benonsoftware> godbyk: Hi again, where is the tex files for the past index and glossarys? The backmatter folder doesn't really help
<godbyk> Hey, benonsoftware.
<benonsoftware> Hiya
<godbyk> The glossary entries are in the frontmatter/glossary-entries.tex file.
<godbyk> The indexing happens throughout the manual.
<benonsoftware> Thanks godbyk
<godbyk> benonsoftware: np
#ubuntu-manual 2012-06-03
<DasEi> I just came across a manualpage referring to lsdev which is a command I can't find in my system, is that a deprecated command ? ..fetching link
<DasEi> http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/hardy/man8/lsdev.8.html#contenttoc3
<DasEi> saying up to 12.04 in headline
<DasEi> I emailed the author in the bottom so far,  maybe someone involved with the manpages could have a look
#ubuntu-manual 2014-05-26
<Megabyte> Guys
<Megabyte> I saw you need people to help.
<Megabyte> Is that so?
#ubuntu-manual 2014-05-30
<Megabyte> Hello, guys
<Megabyte> I've been seeking for you
<Megabyte> I've seen the pdf of the manual
<Megabyte> what exactly are the source files, and where are they?
