#launchpad-meeting 2008-02-12
<barry> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 03:00. The chair is barry.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<barry> hi everyone and welcome to this week's ameu reviewers meeting.  who's here today?
<mwhudson> hello hello
<barry> thumper, jml, jamesh ping
<thumper> me
<barry> jtv: hi!
<jtv> barry: hi!
<jamesh> hi
<mwhudson> jml is hunting internet
<barry> [TOPIC] agenda
<MootBot> New Topic:  agenda
<barry> * Roll call
<barry>  * Next meeting
<barry>  * Action items
<barry>  * Queue status
<barry>  * Mentoring update
<barry>  * Review process
<barry> [TOPIC] next meeting
<MootBot> New Topic:  next meeting
<barry> actually, next week is a us holiday and i'll be just getting back from a skiing weekend, so i won't be here
<barry> do you all want to keep the meeting or cancel?
<thumper> next week will be week 4
<thumper> and we'll me madly testing :-)
 * thumper votes cancel
<barry> [VOTE] cancel == +1, keep == -1
<MootBot> Please vote on:  cancel == +1, keep == -1.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #launchpad-meeting
<thumper> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from thumper. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<barry> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from barry. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<mwhudson> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from mwhudson. 2 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 2
<MootBot> Private +1 vote received. 3 for, 0 against, 1 have abstained. Count is now 3
<jamesh> oh.  I just read the last line of the instructions there
 * barry wonders whether #endvote will work this week
<barry> jamesh: kind of nice that you can private vote that way
<barry> #endvote
 * barry twiddles his thumbs
<barry> guess not
<barry> [AGREED] next week's ameu meeting is canceled
<MootBot> AGREED received:  next week's ameu meeting is canceled
<barry> [TOPIC]  * Action items
<MootBot> Vote is in progress. Finishing now.
<MootBot> Final result is 3 for, 0 against. 1 abstained. Total: 3
<MootBot> New Topic:   * Action items
<barry> i think there are no outstanding ameu action items
<barry> spiv: hi!
<spiv> barry: hello, sorry I'm late.
<barry> spiv: no worries
<thumper> barry: I was going to report about pending reviews killer
<thumper> barry: but I didn't get around to it
<thumper> barry: I did think about it though
<barry> spiv: we're canceling next weeks meeting because it's a us holiday and i won't be here
<thumper> :-|
<barry> thumper: right!
<spiv> barry: I'll probably be on time, then ;)
<spiv> barry: thanks
<barry> spiv:  :)
<barry> [ACTION] barry to remember to add thumper's action item to the agenda for today +2 weeks
<MootBot> ACTION received:  barry to remember to add thumper's action item to the agenda for today +2 weeks
<barry> [TOPIC]  * Queue status
<MootBot> New Topic:   * Queue status
<barry> lots of pink today
<barry> a bunch of branches are stubs
 * thumper still waiting on a review from stub
 * barry is too
<barry> spiv: looks like that cprov branch you've got has conflicts
<sinzui> abel's branch is not going to be reviewed if he doesn't arrange a reviewer.
<cprov> barry: I can fix that, because I don't sleep ;)
<barry> sinzui: i was talking to flacoste about that branch today because i didn't see abel on line
<barry> cprov: sleep is a corportist plot
<mwhudson> oh, i forgot to edit PendingReviews when I did my review
<barry> jamesh: flacoste said you might know something about abel's branch
<barry> oh, and it's big: 1390 lines :(
<jamesh> and I guess it isn't accidentally including the changes from a -step3 :(
<jamesh> I'll take a look at it this arvo
<barry> jamesh: thanks.  if you think there's a natural way to split that, definitely feel free to kick it back to him
<barry> anything else about the queue status?
<barry> 5
<barry> 4
<barry> 3
<barry> 2
<barry> 1
<barry> [TOPIC]  * Mentoring update
<MootBot> New Topic:   * Mentoring update
<barry> is anybody in ameu mentoring anybody these days?
<barry> er, asiapac
<mwhudson> well, as before everyone is either a reviewer or too far away to be mentored by one of us, i think?
<jamesh> I don't think so
<barry> mwhudson: you guys need to hire more people, or convince more people to follow the mwhudson trail!
 * sinzui makes travel plans
<spiv> barry: I'm trying to convince them to hire someone in Sydney ;)
<barry> :)
<mwhudson> and me, less helpfully, paris
<barry> maybe we can sneak someone onto jtv's list too
<barry> [TOPIC]  * Review process
<MootBot> New Topic:   * Review process
<barry> anything to add to this?
<thumper> nope
<mwhudson> don't think so
<barry> okay cool.  i'm done then.
<barry> we have lots of time left, anything you guys want to discuss?
<barry> or anything you want me to communicate or ask ameu?
<thumper> barry: I have one thing, but best done using voice
<thumper> barry: and not actually related to this meeting
<barry> thumper: okay.  wanna skype for a bit after this meeting?
<thumper> barry: yeah, please
<barry> will do
<barry> anything else?
<barry> 5
<barry> 4
<barry> 3
<barry> 2
<barry> 1
<barry> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 03:23.
<barry> thanks everyone.  see you in 2 weeks
<jt1> barry: thank you
<barry> jt1: purple :)
<mwhudson> bye barry
<barry> thumper: firing up skype
<thumper> barry: ok
<cprov> spiv: conflicts on my branch are resolved.
<spiv> cprov: ok, thanks
<jt1> spiv: I'll be travelling tomorrow... think you'll be able to do my branch today?
<spiv> jt1: today/tonight, yeah.
<jt1> spiv: I forget... which timezone are you in?
<spiv> Sydney
<spiv> So it's 1426 here atm.
<jt1> spiv: ah, then "tonight" is good news.  Thanks.  :-)
#launchpad-meeting 2008-02-13
<barry> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 15:01. The chair is barry.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<barry> hello everyone and welcome to this week's ameu reviewer's meeting
<barry> who's here today?
<schwuk> me
<bac> me
<allenap> me
<gmb_> me
<statik> me
<salgado> me
<intellectronica> me
<flacoste> me
<barry> [TOPIC] agenda
<MootBot> New Topic:  agenda
<sinzui> me
<barry> * Roll call
<barry>  * Next meeting
<barry>  * Action items
<barry>  * Queue status
<barry>  * Mentoring update
<barry>  * Review process
<BjornT> me
<barry> i think we have a fairly light agenda today so maybe we can end early
<barry> [TOPIC] next meeting
<MootBot> New Topic:  next meeting
<barry> anybody know they cannot make it same bat time next week?
<barry> 5
<barry> 4
<barry> 3
<barry> 2
<barry> 1
<barry> [AGREED] meeting same time next week
<MootBot> AGREED received:  meeting same time next week
<barry> [TOPIC] action items
<MootBot> New Topic:  action items
<barry>  * intellectronica to put cover letter draft on wiki
<barry> intellectronica: shall we just continue that 'til next week?
<intellectronica> damn, another week passed and i haven't done that
<intellectronica> yes, please
<barry> k
<barry>  * (continued) gmb to work on the review web site
<gmb> No time to do much really.
<gmb> But wasn't reviewboard mooted last week?
<barry> gmb: yeah.  i should just take that off
<gmb> Right.
<barry> thumper has an action item to write up his thoughts of doing it all in lp
<barry> [ACTION] review web site mooted in favor of an in-LP solution
<MootBot> ACTION received:  review web site mooted in favor of an in-LP solution
<barry>  * (continued) sinzui to look into running `make lint` and output PR stanza by default in `review-submit`
<sinzui> I did not work on lint integration. I do however have a rudimentary doctest style checker and reformatter.
<sinzui> The PR stanza is have not done as well
<barry> sinzui: will the doctest checker look for things like duplicate or unused imports?
<sinzui> barry: Not yet...that is one of my promptings to write it
<barry> sinzui: yeah, it's something that's fairly difficult to review
<barry> sinzui: we'll just continue this item to next week then, ok?
<sinzui> barry: I'
<sinzui> m torn between simple pyflakes style checking verses extracting the script to run it.
<sinzui> ok
<barry> sinzui: maybe discuss on the m.l.?
<sinzui> barry: sure
<barry> sinzui: great.  thanks for all the awesome work on make lint
<barry> [TOPIC]  * Queue status
<MootBot> New Topic:   * Queue status
<intellectronica> no branches pending review. yay
<barry> pending-reviews looks pretty good to me actually.  any feedback from on-call reviewers?
<intellectronica> (except for yours, barry, which you said flacoste is taking care of)
<barry> intellectronica: yep, and that's now in flacoste's queue
<sinzui> intellectronica: you have number of branches that have not landed yet
<barry> of course, this /is/ week 3 :)
<sinzui> intellectronica: Do you have dependencies (database?) blocking their landing?
<intellectronica> sinzui: i know. i am landing all of them in one big branch (i am just now looking at why my attempt to land this yesterday failed)
<barry> anything else on the queue topic?
<barry> 5
<barry> 4
<barry> 3
<barry> 2
<barry> 1
<barry> [TOPIC] mentoring update
<MootBot> New Topic:  mentoring update
<barry> any feedback from mentors or recruits?
<barry> things going okay?
<barry> no news is good news then :)
<barry> 5
<barry> 4
<barry> 3
<barry> 2
<intellectronica> things going very well as far as i'm concerned
<barry> intellectronica: great!
<barry> 1
<barry> [TOPIC] review process
<MootBot> New Topic:  review process
<barry> i really have nothing for this topic.  seems to me things are going as smoothly as possible with PR still alive :)
<barry> any concerns, glitches, problems?
<intellectronica> a slight problem
<intellectronica> we sometimes forget to allocate branches that are left on the general queue at the end of a shift
<bac> intellectronica: i realize i forgot to allocate one yesterday.  sorry.
<intellectronica> then, we often take fresh on-call reviews before dealing with the ones on the queue
<sinzui> intellectronica: I am guilty of that. I decided not to allocate a branch that 1400 lines.
<intellectronica> i really think it would be good if we systematically allocate left-over branches, for that reason
<sinzui> that was 1400 lines
<barry> sinzui: i think that's fine.  it's unfair to dump a 1400 line branch on someone (but of course they can always reject it)
<flacoste> we have a policy with 1400 branches
<flacoste> the developer was supposed to discuss this with a reviewer first
<flacoste> so i think it's fair game that the branch linger in PR
<flacoste> we should contact the developer though
<intellectronica> bac, sinzui: i wasn't referring to any particular instance, just that if we don't do this regularly we penalize people who didn't manage to 'fight' for their branch on #launchpad-reviews
<sinzui> intellectronica: understood
<danilos> me (late)
<sinzui> I think when allocating branches, we need to review jamesh's page to see how many lines are allocated to each review.
<barry> intellectronica: agreed
<barry> sinzui: yes, i definitely try to do that
<sinzui> s/review/reviewer/
<sinzui> I think I was mean to some review the first time I allocated by not checking how many lines they had in their queue.
<barry> sinzui: remember!  reviewers can reject branches by putting them in the reject queue
<barry> i know you feel guilty when you do it, but feeling guilty is better than feeling mad :)
<barry> anything else?
<barry> any topics not on the agenda?
<barry> 5
<barry> 4
<barry> 3
<barry> 2
<barry> 1
<barry> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 15:26.
<barry> thanks everyone!  short and sweet
<schwuk> thanks barry
<intellectronica> thanks, barry
<gmb> Cheers barry
#launchpad-meeting 2008-02-14
 * Rinchen checks to ensure his ntp is functioning.
<mrevell> ooops, it wasn't that long a lunch, honestly :)
<mrevell> me
<Rinchen> nice an orderly queues now please
<mrevell> :)
<thumper> what? like the pqm one?
<mwhudson> me
<Rinchen> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 18:00. The chair is Rinchen.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<Rinchen> Welcome to this week's Launchpad development meeting. For the next 45 minutes or so, we'll be coordinating Launchpad development.
<Rinchen>  * Agenda
<Rinchen>  * Roll call
<Rinchen>  * Next meeting
<Rinchen>  * Actions from last meeting
<Rinchen>  * Oops report (Matsubara)
<Rinchen>  * Critical Bugs (Rinchen)
<Rinchen>  * Bug tags
<Rinchen>  * Operations report (mthaddon)
<kiko-fud> me
<Rinchen>  * DBA report (stub)
<Rinchen>  * Sysadmin requests (Rinchen)
<allenap> me
<Rinchen>  * New packages required (salgado)
<abentley> me
<Rinchen>  * A top user-affecting issue (mrevell)
<Rinchen>  * Blockers
<mthaddon> me
<Rinchen> [TOPIC] Roll call
<MootBot> New Topic:  Roll call
<thumper> me
<Rinchen> me :-)
<allenap> me
<bac> me
<matsubara> me
<mrevell> me
<adeuring> me
<sinzui> me
<salgado> me
<danilos> Rinchen: we usually used to do a roll call first :)
<danilos> me
<cprov> me
<jtv> me
<flacoste> me
<intellectronica> me
<Rinchen> danilos, I changed the agenda :-)
<gmb> me
<danilos> carlos: you?
<carlos> me
<leonardr> me
<carlos> ;-)
<EdwinGrubbs> me
<barry> me
<mars> me
<statik> me
<mwhudson> me
<SteveA> me
<kiko-fud> me
<Rinchen> BjornT, ?
<BjornT> me
<Rinchen> EdwinGrubbs?
<Rinchen> ah
<Rinchen> sorry
<Rinchen> ok, moving on
<Rinchen> [TOPIC] Next meeting
<MootBot> New Topic:  Next meeting
<Rinchen> Thursday the 21st, same time, same channel?
<jtv> Holiday in Thailand.
<stub> me
<Rinchen> kiko?
<kiko> same time same channel!
<Rinchen> [AGREED] Thursday the 21st, same time, same channel
<MootBot> AGREED received:  Thursday the 21st, same time, same channel
<Rinchen> [TOPIC] Actions from last meeting
<MootBot> New Topic:  Actions from last meeting
<Rinchen> we had a lot
<kiko> rock on MootBot
<statik> herb! welcome
<Rinchen> I'll skip the ones marked done in the agenda
<Rinchen>  * intellectronica to investigate Bug 185135
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 185135 in blueprint "+roadmap page still times out" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/185135
<Rinchen>  * Salgado and Kiko to discuss recent 404s
<herb> statik: danke
<intellectronica> Rinchen: haven't had the time to. tonight or tomorrow, hopefully
<flacoste> 3me mumbles something about batching
<salgado> Rinchen, done
<Rinchen> [ACTION] repost: intellectronica to investigate Bug 185135
<MootBot> ACTION received:  repost: intellectronica to investigate Bug 185135
<kiko> Rinchen, we did!
<Rinchen>  * jtv to investigate OOPS-764F1198
<ubotu> https://devpad.canonical.com/~jamesh/oops.cgi/764F1198
<Rinchen>  * matsubara to file a bug about the DateTimeWidget oops
<jtv> Rinchen: done and fixed.
<intellectronica> flacoste: won't work. we can discuss later, elsewhere
<matsubara> Rinchen: that wasn't necessary
<Rinchen> * matsubara to investigate a bunch of oopses
<Rinchen>  * Steve to arrange a call sometime next week with stub and some people from the Foundations team to talk over AuthPersonSplit
<SteveA> there's a call arranged for monday
<matsubara> Rinchen: the datewidget bug was fixed on r5616
<kiko> that's been SteveA and stub's favorite subject this week ;)
<matsubara> Rinchen: the bunch of oopses are now properly reported bugs
 * kiko hi 5s SteveA 
<Rinchen>  * mrevell to ping Rinchen about new blog spam
 * SteveA hi5s
<kiko> blog spam?
<Rinchen> I raised that in priority
<Rinchen> yeah
<mrevell> We get quitea bit of comment spam
<SteveA> would getting openid used with the blog help?
<kiko> I think I see that
<Rinchen> I also fixed the existing undelete-able spam somehow
<flacoste> SteveA: and who from the Foundations team will join that call?
<Rinchen> SteveA, yes
<mrevell> Rinchen: Yeah, rock on :)
<Rinchen> SteveA, er no
<kiko> openid! we can't even get our moin instances running that!!!
<SteveA> flacoste: salgado and stub arranged it together
<intellectronica> mrevell: it's wordpress, innit? why don't we use the akismet service?
<Rinchen> SteveA, the problem is that we allow anyone to post comments
<Rinchen> SteveA, for moderation
<mrevell> intellectronica: Ask IS :) It calls home.
<Rinchen> the spam is in the moderated comments
<flacoste> SteveA: nice!
<SteveA> Rinchen: if we allowed only launchpad users to post comments
<SteveA> Rinchen: would that help?
<Rinchen> SteveA, yes
<SteveA> so, openid with directed identity to lp would help
<Rinchen> In that vain, yes
<Rinchen>  * salgado to investigate adding turbogears for codebrowse and germinate
<kiko> Rinchen, vein.
<stub> The akismet plugin for wordpress makes it almost a nonissue
<mrevell> Yes, that would solve everything we get right now.
<kiko> Rinchen, and the moin stuff?
<salgado> Rinchen, not done
<SteveA> Rinchen: let's tie off that vain
<Rinchen> hehe
<SteveA> Rinchen: blow that weather vain
<Rinchen> kiko, would fix bzr's spam
<Rinchen>  * flacoste to discussing adding launchpad-dependencies inside the sourcecode tree with salgado
<Rinchen>  * danilos to investigate profiling and Rosetta team to prepare proposal for next week to fix remaining timeouts
<flacoste> Rinchen: done, report sent to list
<danilos> I prepared a script to extract most of the data for rosetta timeouts statistics based on oops-tools used for OOPS weekly summaries, but haven't yet prepared a nice report (please carry on to next meeting)
<Rinchen> [ACTION] repost: salgado to investigate adding turbogears for codebrowse and germinate
<MootBot> ACTION received:  repost: salgado to investigate adding turbogears for codebrowse and germinate
 * abentley hopes in vane that SteveA will stop
<Rinchen> [ACTION] repost: danilos to investigate profiling and Rosetta team to prepare proposal for next week to fix remaining timeouts
<MootBot> ACTION received:  repost: danilos to investigate profiling and Rosetta team to prepare proposal for next week to fix remaining timeouts
<kiko> danilos, okay, thanks for doing this, though -- the timeouts are a big deal
<Rinchen> last one
<Rinchen> * matsubara to get last week +translate timeouts OOPS ids for danilo
<matsubara> Rinchen: I gave the pointers to danilo so he could hack the oops scripts himself
<danilos> kiko: what I can get right now is this: https://pastebin.canonical.com/2433/ (though, I also have data by the query, and as I suspected 'get external' suggestions is 10x what get local is)
<Rinchen> k,
<Rinchen> thanks for the updates
<Rinchen> [TOPIC] Oops report (Matsubara)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Oops report (Matsubara)
<danilos> Rinchen: yeah, matsubara helped with this
<SteveA> Rinchen: http://wordpress.org/extend/plugins/openid/
<matsubara> Today's oops report is about bugs 191887, 191891, 191899
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 191887 in rosetta "Translation import queue filter displays inactive projects" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/191887
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 191891 in launchpad "OOPS accessing +expiringmembership for a person." [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/191891
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 191899 in launchpad "OOPS renaming a team with a mailing list activated " [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/191899
<matsubara> Talked with jtv already about #191887.
<matsubara> Talked with salgado about #191891. Seems to be a low importance bug since one
<matsubara> needs to manually craft the URL to trigger the oops.
<salgado> matsubara, agreed
<matsubara> barry re #191899, can you get that one fixed for this release?
<carlos> matsubara: I added a comment for #191887 too
<matsubara> thanks carlos and salgado
<barry> matsubara: not this week.  i'm on leave until tuesday
<kiko> I'm not seeing any OOPSes on edge, which is good
<kiko> I still see the same old same old nonsense on production though
<kiko> UDE/UEE
<kiko> feeds stuff
<kiko> @@ nonsense
<matsubara> barry: I guess that's ok, since the +review page doesn't seem to be linked anywhere and only lp admins can access it
<matsubara> barry: can I set it to the next milestone though (1.2.3)?
<kiko> danilos, this is very very cool
<barry> matsubara: right. maybe we can do it as an rc next week?
<matsubara> barry: and assign to you, etc.
<barry> matsubara: +1
<matsubara> I don't think that's worth a RC
<matsubara> for the reason outlined above
<barry> matsubara: cool. 1.2.3 is fine
<matsubara> barry: great, thanks!
<matsubara> done here Rinchen, back to you
<Rinchen> if it's critical it should be done now. If not, then it's not worth of an RC
<barry> np, thanks!
<Rinchen>  </SteveA hat>
<matsubara> Rinchen: not critical
<Rinchen> :-)
<danilos> kiko: thanks, and there should be more coming :)
<Rinchen> Thanks matsubara
<Rinchen> [TOPIC] Critical Bugs (Rinchen)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Critical Bugs (Rinchen)
<Rinchen> well, I was all excited to talk about
<Rinchen> [LINK] https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/rosetta/+bug/190145
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/rosetta/+bug/190145
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 190145 in rosetta "Last translator credit is not updated on export time" [Critical,Fix committed]
<Rinchen> but it seems carlos has fixed it
<kiko> ha ha ha
<kiko> as the swede says OLD NEWS
<carlos> Rinchen:
<carlos> Rinchen: I did, yes
<Rinchen> Thanks carlos.
<carlos> Rinchen: and it's in rocketfuel already
<Rinchen> I have nothing further on critical bugs other than to thank everyone for continuing to fix them in a very timely manner
<Rinchen> [TOPIC] Bug tags
<MootBot> New Topic:  Bug tags
<Rinchen> We have one
<Rinchen> mailing-lists by flacoste
<Rinchen> [LINK] https://help.launchpad.net/TaggingLaunchpadBugs
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://help.launchpad.net/TaggingLaunchpadBugs
<SteveA> is 'lists' descriptive enough?
<matsubara> +1 for mailing-lists
<flacoste> lists would also probably work, unless we have lists of other things
<jtv> it's very generic.
<SteveA> we have lists of bugs
<flacoste> could be intrepreted as listing
<danilos> well, we have lists of everything :)
<barry> lists is too generic
<SteveA> we have wishlist bugs too
<kiko> no
<kiko> mailing-lists
<Rinchen> mailing-tuples
<Rinchen> hehe
<Rinchen> j/k
<SteveA> +1 for mailing-lists
<kiko> HOW CAN THAT BE A JOKE Rinchen???
<Rinchen> I'm +1 for mailing-lists
<thumper> +1 for mailing-lists
<barry> +1 for mailing-lists
<kiko> mailing-lists
<SteveA> although, if they're bugs
<SteveA> it should be failing-lists
<SteveA> (bada-ching)
<Rinchen> ok.  So carried.  flacoste do the honours with the web page please
 * barry says, knowing that there's no possibility mailing lists will ever actually have a bug
<Rinchen> [AGREED] mailing-lists tag approved
<MootBot> AGREED received:  mailing-lists tag approved
<kiko> fucking clowns
<Rinchen> [TOPIC] Operations report (mthaddon)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Operations report (mthaddon)
<Rinchen> and herb?
<kiko> yes
<mthaddon> First of all, would like to introduce our new OSA - herb - Herb started at the beginning of this week and will take a while to ramp up, but any OSA requests that you would normally have sent just to me, please cc Herb as he gets up to speed.
<mthaddon> Rollout next week will be a little longer than usual due to new DB server being put in place. Exact timing TBD as it will involve people in a few different timezones :) (should be able to finalise in the next day or two)
<mthaddon> That's it from me unless there are any questions
<SteveA> herb: welcome!
<kiko> were any legs cut off with leathermen this week?
<mrevell> welcome herb!
<kiko> or is that herb's first task!
<herb> thanks all
<SteveA> why do we send OSA requests to you, rather than to a functional mail address?
<SteveA> (like rt or something) ?
<mwhudson> herb: which timezone are you usually in?
<mthaddon> SteveA, presumably because there's only been one of me til now :)
<herb> US/Eastern
<SteveA> mthaddon: let's change that, now herb is here
<mthaddon> SteveA, sounds good - will do and will email the list with the appropriate info
<kiko> thanks mthaddon
<SteveA> good show, chaps
<kiko> herb, good to have you closeby then!
<Rinchen> [IDEA] Find a better way to communicate with our OSAs now that there are two.
<MootBot> IDEA received:  Find a better way to communicate with our OSAs now that there are two.
<Rinchen> [TOPIC] DBA report (stub)
<MootBot> New Topic:  DBA report (stub)
<stub> When I looked this morning, the rocketfuel archives on devpad where not packs. What time frame do we have for switching them over too?
<stub> New hardware coming next rollout. Woot.
<stub> I think we are on top of this cycle's DB patches. One more of my branches to land, a test suite update from cprov and a late submission from Elliot that should land tomorrow.
<stub> Interested parties should look over the AuthPersonSplit spec. Talk to me or the mailing list about any issues you think it raises or changes it needs.
<stub> [LINK] https://launchpad.canonical.com/AuthPersonSplit
<stub> I want devs running PostgreSQL 8.3 as soon as possible. I think this just involves updating our tsearch2 index maintenance tool. We won't worry about a timeline for switching PQM, staging or production though until we have kicked the tires locally.
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://launchpad.canonical.com/AuthPersonSplit
<stub> Think that is all.
<abentley> topic on #bzrlp claims they're packs now.
<statik> I'm all for running on 8.3
<cprov> stub: I'm fixing that test right now.
<statik> as soon as that script is fixed
<mthaddon> stub, packs for devpad would be down to lifeless - I believe we're using packs on praseodymium, but not devpad yet
<statik> but it also requires a change in the developer-dependencies package
<statik> as that specifies 8.2 right now
<SteveA> that could be awkward
<Rinchen> stub, do you have some documentation about how to upgrade anything that needs upgrading from 8.2 to 8.3 on dev machines?
<intellectronica> statik: maybe it's possible to install them side-by-side?
<SteveA> as I think the production dependencies and developer dependencies are linked somehow
<stub> You can happily specify both 8.2 and 8.3 - they coexist
<statik> hmm, perhaps I did something weird when I installed in hardy
<jtv> of course only one is going to be at TCP port 5432...
<stub> Rinchen: That will come when I know how we will do it
<statik> I saw that the configs co-existed, but I thought that 8.3 uninstalled 8.2
<statik> nevermind
<kiko> statik, no, a big migration happened after dapper to allow parallel installs
<kiko> statik, pitti is a master
<statik> awesome
<Rinchen> [IDEA] devs should upgrade to postgres 8.3 as soon as we are ready
<MootBot> IDEA received:  devs should upgrade to postgres 8.3 as soon as we are ready
<Rinchen> anything else for stub?
<kiko> stub, how are the DB patches looking?
<kiko> stub, statik: you guys sorted out your pending issues?
<kiko> stub, salgado: ditto?
<statik> kiko: all set
<kiko> cprov, anything left from you apart from the test failure fix?
<stub> 01:20:48) stub: I think we are on top of this cycle's DB patches. One more of my branches to land, a test suite update from cprov and a late submission from Elliot that should land tomorrow.
<kiko> just making sure
<kiko> cool!
<stub> Oh....
<cprov> kiko: no, I have a fix for it
<stub> And the CodeReviewVoting stuff needs to be finalized, but it is probably too late in the cycle to get that new design approved
<thumper> stub: maybe it is
<thumper> stub: I've talked through with sabdfl about it
<kiko> thumper, stub: is there a point to landing this early?
<thumper> kiko: it would help work for the next cycle
<thumper> that's all
<stub> "We'd like to get these changes landed for 1.2.2 in order to work and land the code review work during 1.2.3 without worrying about the database."
<kiko> well... don't really see that much of an issue
<thumper> kiko: it isn't critical, just handy
<flacoste> land early instead of having to wait for the DB to open
<stub> I'll see what we can do anyway.
<kiko> flacoste, just base work on the same branch and get them reviewed in steps.. I dunno.
<kiko> is there an interest in disclosing this in parts?
<Rinchen> ready to move on?
<flacoste> kiko: it makes manageing conflits easier
<Rinchen> [TOPIC] Sysadmin requests (Rinchen)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Sysadmin requests (Rinchen)
<Rinchen> Hi! Is anyone blocked on an RT or have any that are becoming urgent?
<kiko> pas moi
<Rinchen> RTs have continued to see good progress lately due to the addition of additional IS staff, so I'm excited about that.
<Rinchen> although we have a lot in the queue still
<Rinchen> last call....
<cprov> Rinchen: ah, fyi, dpkg LZMA is being rolled out in production as we talk, and the soyuz fix is already in PQM
<cprov> (slightly related with blocking RT)
<kiko> cprov, rock on! is it in lp-deps already?
<Rinchen> great stuff, thanks.
<Rinchen> that's a good lead in....
<Rinchen> [TOPIC] New packages required (salgado)
<MootBot> New Topic:  New packages required (salgado)
<salgado> if any of the branches you're working on right now  depends on any library which is not part of the launchpad-dependencies package, come talk to me ASAP.
<cprov> kiko: no,  gutsy version already supports it
<kiko> cprov, ah, cool.
<kiko> any takers?
<kiko> salgado, what's the latest you've added to lp-deps?
<salgado> py-lxml, simplejson
<salgado> and tickcount
<SteveA> see... codebrowse would answer that question for us, if this was in a bzr branch
<SteveA> just sayin'
<flacoste> it's faster for salgado to reply than to wait for codebrowse... just sayin'
<Rinchen> ooh
<Rinchen> getting ugly now
<kiko> flacoste, that's not a nice thing to say
<kiko> so I think apt-cache works fine for me
<kiko> I just wanted to hear salgado's voice
<Rinchen> right then....
<Rinchen> [TOPIC] A top user-affecting issue (mrevell)
<MootBot> New Topic:  A top user-affecting issue (mrevell)
<mwhudson> flacoste: oy
<mrevell> howdy
<mrevell> Recently, I've noticed a number of licence project submissions come in as "Other/Proprietary".
<mrevell> The wording we use to state which licences are acceptable is a little vague right now:
<mrevell> "Launchpad.net is free to use for software projects that comply with  these licensing policies."
<kiko> mrevell, I have been good at KILLING THOSE very quickly when statik isn't looking
<mrevell> That's linked to http://www.ubuntu.com/community/ubuntustory/licensing
<mrevell> heh
<mrevell> There's also been some confused messages sent using the "Description of additional licenses:" box. One person selected every licence available and wrote, "I need at least one licence, please".
 * kiko pimps "apt-cache show launchpad-dependencies"
<mrevell> I propose we add an introductory sentence above the licence check-boxes. Something like:
<mrevell> "Select the licence(s) under which you release your project."
<mrevell> And also strengthen the wording below to say, "Launchpad.net is free to use for software projects that share their source code and comply with these licensing policies. Contact us if your project uses a proprietary licence."
<mrevell> Unless people have objections or suggestions, that's me done.
<statik> mrevell: I like that suggestion, that is an action for me or EdwinGrubbs
<carlos> mrevell++
<mrevell> Cool. We can link "contact us" to help.launchpad.net/Feedback
<kiko> yes, action for EdwinGrubbs
<mrevell> statik: want me to file a bug?
<Rinchen> [ACTION] statik/EdwinGrubbs - add introductory sentence above the license check-boxes for clarification.
<MootBot> ACTION received:  statik/EdwinGrubbs - add introductory sentence above the license check-boxes for clarification.
<abentley> Or perhaps have Other/proprietary produce a "contact us" page?
<mrevell> abentley: Are you channeling mpt? :)
<SteveA> abentley: I'm not so sure about that
<SteveA> it may encourage people to just to back
<SteveA> and then, um, lie
<SteveA> I think it's important people complete a process
<SteveA> the same process in each case
<SteveA> and then we contact them
<Rinchen> (without fibbing)
<SteveA> taking them to a "contact us" page
<SteveA> means they haven't completed the process of registering
<abentley> I guess my experience has been that documentation is not always effective, especially as the amount of it increases.
<SteveA> and if their goal is to register, they may well find some other way to achieve that end
<kiko> and btw, I am pretty quick to nuke those projects. :)
<SteveA> finger on da button
<Rinchen> abentley, I agree with your experience. :-)
<Rinchen> anything else for mrevell ?
<abentley> But it's always a matter of taste.
<kiko> abentley, you're right. the thing is that these people /already/ contact us
<mrevell> nope, that's me. thanks.
<kiko> abentley, this is really a big project -- we get a /lot/ of public requests
<kiko> it's quite unlike running your own software project
<kiko> I had never expected this
<kiko> but we get hundreds of bogus requests a week
<kiko> requests in random languages
<kiko> people asking for Ubuntu CDs on a list whose mailman page says in RED LETTERS no ubuntu cds please
<kiko> etc
<abentley> I've no doubt.
<intellectronica> yeah, being popular sucks
<kiko> Rinchen, movin' on..
<Rinchen> There are no submitted additional topics. You know what that means!
<sinzui> We need RED LETTERS in random languages then
<stub> [ACTION] mthaddon - discuss updating devpad rocketfuel archives to packs and do so if lifeless approved.
 * barry invokes the pinball machine rule
<Rinchen> [TOPIC] Blockers
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blockers
<Rinchen> Releases Team: Not blocked.
<flacoste> Foundations: not blocked
<jtv> Translations: Not blocked.
<BjornT> Bugs: not blocked
<adeuring> hwdb: not blocked
<Rinchen>  [ACTION] mthaddon - discuss updating devpad rocketfuel archives to packs and do so if lifeless approved.
<cprov> Soyuz: not blocked
<Rinchen> [ACTION] mthaddon - discuss updating devpad rocketfuel archives to packs and do so if lifeless approved.
<thumper> Code: Not blocked
 * flacoste wonders what th pinball machine rule is
<MootBot> ACTION received:  mthaddon - discuss updating devpad rocketfuel archives to packs and do so if lifeless approved.
<statik> lpcomm: not blocked
<SteveA> SC: not blocked
 * jtv wonders like flacoste does
<Rinchen> stub, action is restricted to mtg chair unlike LINK and IDEA
<stub> facist
<Rinchen> not my code :-)
 * SteveA channels kiko
<SteveA> stub: "fascist"
<jtv> SteveA: He may have meant "faeces"
<stub> oh oh i'm being oppressed!
<Rinchen> right
<Rinchen> Thank you all for attending this week's Launchpad Developer Meeting. See the channel topic for the location of the logs.
<Rinchen> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 18:42.
 * Rinchen laughs
<mrevell> thank you everyone!
<SteveA> thanks Rinchen !
<flacoste> Rinchen: thanks for a on-time meeting!
<carlos> thanks
<flacoste> barry: what's the pinball machine rule?
<jtv> Rinchen: thank you
<jtv> barry: yeah, what's the pinball machine rule?
<abentley> kthxbye
<cprov> thank you, guys
<SteveA> no tilts?
<barry> google warsaw's fourth law :)
<intellectronica> flacoste:  The Pinball Machine Rule is the observation that it doesn't matter a wit if the instructions are printed clearly for all to see, nobody will read them.  They'll just drop their quarter(s) and start pushing buttons like a Tommy. -- Barry Warsaw
<mrevell> barry: Isn't that something to do with international flight?
<mrevell> :)
<kiko> opressors rock
<barry> :)
<flacoste> lol
<jtv> Tommy?
<SteveA> rock opera
<stub> Where  where you in the 60s?
<kiko> jtv, the who?
<SteveA> about a pinball wizard
<kiko> jesus
<jtv> kiko: No, Tommy.
<mrevell> I hear he was quite good with pinball. levitated the obstacles out the way
<sinzui> â¬ Sure plays a mean pinball â¬
<jtv> Damn, it's been a while since I heard that...
#launchpad-meeting 2009-02-11
<barry> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 09:00. The chair is barry.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<barry> hello everyone and welcome to this week's ameu reviewer's meeting.  who's here today?
<danilos> me
<EdwinGrubbs> me
<mars> me
<bigjools> me
<bac> me
<barry> jtv: hi!
<jtv> hi barry!
<barry> adeuring: ping
<barry> allenap: ping?
<adeuring> whoops, me
<salgado> me!
<barry> BjornT: ping
<gary_poster> me
<barry> cprov: ping
<BjornT> me
<barry> gmb: ping
<barry> intellectronica: ping
<gmb> me
<barry> rockstar: ping
<intellectronica> me
<jtv> me
<barry> sinzui: ping
<sinzui> hi barry
<flacoste> me
<barry> hi everyone
<sinzui> me
<barry> [TOPIC] agenda
<MootBot> New Topic:  agenda
<barry>  * Roll call
<barry>  * asiapac meeting time change
<barry>  * deprecate zapi and ztapi in favor of zope.component APIs, gary
<barry>  * Action items
<barry>  * Mentoring update
<barry>  * Peanut gallery (anything not on the agenda)
<barry> [TOPIC]  * asiapac meeting time change
<MootBot> New Topic:   * asiapac meeting time change
<barry> so just a quick note that we've changed the date and time of the asiapac meeting.  10pm my time was just too difficult for me to remember, so now it's wednesdays utc 2300
<barry> which i think also makes it easier to communicate between the two review teams
<barry> just in case y'all wanted to drop by :)
<danilos> in case I have no idea what to do at midnight, I might ;)
<barry> :)
<barry> [TOPIC]  * deprecate zapi and ztapi in favor of zope.component APIs, gary
<MootBot> New Topic:   * deprecate zapi and ztapi in favor of zope.component APIs, gary
<barry> gary_poster: the floor is yours
<flacoste> for US fols, that's nice, we'll be able to drop by
<gary_poster> :-) k
<barry> flacoste: yep.  we don't have jamesh's tz to worry about any more :)
<gary_poster> Zope deprecated zapi and ztapi quite awhile ago
<gary_poster> Jim Fulton significantly refactored the zope.component API so that it was easier to use it directly
<gary_poster> these APIs are more parallel (register/unregister for instance for adapters and utilities)
<rockstar> me
<gary_poster> and also don't hide how views work as adapters, for instance, behind what I believe to be an unnecessary and ultimately confusing veil
<gary_poster> I think we (probably me) should come up with a cheat sheet on "if you were doing this, try doing this"
<gary_poster> but Zope is already leaving that stuff behind, and I think we should too
<barry> gary_poster: what kinds of things do we commonly do now that would be better off w/o zapi?
<sinzui> I only see zapi and ztapi in old code. I have never reviewed code that added it.
<barry> gary_poster: % fc lib/canonical zapi | wc -l
<barry> 23
<gary_poster> sinzui: so, do you mean, it is already effectively deprecated?
<sinzui> gary_poster: I think so
<barry> sinzui: 23 hits on zapi, 35 hits on ztapi
<barry> which doesn't seem like much
<gary_poster> barry: zapi should be completely unnecessary.  same with ztapi.  It's just cruft, keeping people from understanding the actual use of the component code, for no particular win
<gary_poster> ok, so maybe simple proposal:
<sinzui> gary_poster: I only know what Phillip wrote in his book. I think flacoste/SteveA have driven us from using it in the past two years.
<gary_poster> 1) Someone (I?) does (do) a branch that rips out the remainder
<barry> maybe the newest code is in l/c/lazr/rest/tales.py?
<gary_poster> 2) that policy is official
<allenap> me
<gary_poster> the reason that this came up is that I saw leonardr use it
<barry> +1, +1
<gary_poster> ok
<gary_poster> at least that was non-controversial ;-)
<barry> gary_poster: maybe start with lib/canonical/lazr?
<gary_poster> yeah
<jtv> gary_poster: it was the "(I?)" part that sold us
<gary_poster> lol :-)
<gary_poster> k, done, unless someone else wants to say something
<barry> jtv: are you saying that gary_poster is our jerry maguire?
<barry> gary_poster: thanks
<gary_poster> :-)
<barry> [TOPIC]  * Action items
<MootBot> New Topic:   * Action items
<barry>  * abentley to email ml and gustavo with suggestions for improving storm
<barry> abentley: just in time! :)
<abentley> barry: Done.
<jtv> barry: EPOPCULTREF
<abentley> barry: Response was not very positive.
<gary_poster> heh
<barry> abentley: yeah
<gary_poster> conversation with stub seemed potentially fruitful though
<abentley> In fact, he said if we like the SQLObject api, we should use the shim
<flacoste> well
<barry> what do you guys think?  personally, i prefer both native storm query syntax and native storm class definitions
<flacoste> that has some drawbacks
<flacoste> and I don't think the shim is what we want to use
<flacoste> native storm query: yes
<flacoste> native storm class defs: not sure at all
<abentley> I think stores should be optional.
<abentley> Most of the time, we don't want or need them.
<flacoste> the problem with the shim is that the results objects are incompatible
<bigjools> as I found to my cost
<abentley> Okay, so if we make our own base class, would that be acceptable?
<barry> flacoste: what would you propose instead for class defs?  base class/metaclass?
<flacoste> base class is probably best
<barry> abentley: not outside the realm of possibility
<flacoste> as metaclass usually makes people's brain explode
<barry> flacoste: indeed
<barry> flacoste: how would that change the attribute definition syntax?
<flacoste> i think we might need a metaclass for that, i don't know
<flacoste> and maybe the native storm syntax isn't that bad
<barry> flacoste: i think we would, but i guess my question is: what would you do differently?
<flacoste> it's just that I agree with abentley that the ID stuff is kind of boring
<barry> true
<flacoste> well, the attribute names for instance
<flacoste> field_id instead of fieldID
<bigjools> the only real problem with Storm syntax for me is importing a gazillion content classes
<allenap> bigjools: That does have the advantage that things break hard when classes are changed.
<allenap> and early.
<barry> is anybody motivated enough to try an experiment here?
<abentley> bigjools: Not seeing the connection.
<bigjools> abentley: if you use Python expressions for the query joins ...
<abentley> bigjools: Is that compared to raw SQL with SQLObject?
<bigjools> yes. if you write a string in SQL then you don't have the import pain, but then Storm can't work out the FROM tables
<jtv> barry: what experiment did you have in mind?
<flacoste> barry: well, i think abentley's gripes are good, so if he's willing to try to cook up a base class that suits him, that would be a good start
<bigjools> allenap: that's a great point
<abentley> flacoste: Sure, I'm happy to start with that.  Metaclass foo later.
<barry> jtv: a base class/metaclass to make various common boring or painful things easier
<barry> abentley: cool.  i know there's an experiments page somewhere but my firefox is misbehaving right now
<barry> [ACTION] abentley to experiment with a base class to ease the pain and boredom with storm
<MootBot> ACTION received:  abentley to experiment with a base class to ease the pain and boredom with storm
<barry>  * flacoste to take dead zone reviews issue to ml
<flacoste> done
<flacoste> not sure of the resolution there
<flacoste> though
<barry> flacoste: me neither
<barry> jtv: what do you think about that thread?
<barry> jtv: i think you and stub get weighted more heavily here as you're the most tz challenged
 * barry taps the mic and asks "is this thing still on?"
<jtv> barry: I do agree, just slightly concerned about having yet more ways to write a database class
<jtv> barry: sorry, hard to type at this temperature
<rockstar> jtv, +1
<barry> jtv: TOOWTDI
<barry> jtv: and you're dutch so it should be obvious to you
<gary_poster> :-)
<barry> jtv: sorry, i meant the dead zone review thread
<jtv> barry: ahhh
<jtv> barry: I thought we already were discussing that on the ml
 * jtv reads back
<barry> jtv: we are, just wanted to give you a higher bandwidth channel.  but it's okay, we can continue on the ml
<jtv> barry: yes, sorry, having that one line added in the middle changed the meaning of my backlog
<jtv> I think we agreed that cover letters are good, and possibly better than asking a reviewer personally
<barry> cover letters + mp + (maybe?) irc topic?
<jtv> barry: ah yes, the topic line, I liked that
<barry> jtv: cool.  let's see if we can make that work. we can always try something else if need be
<jtv> maybe a "candidate queue"?
<jtv> after all, the "queue" is what an OCR has accepted
<jtv> or a "review backlog"
<barry> jtv: backlog: xxx in the topic?
<jtv> barry: looks lovely
<danilos> we can have two queues, one for on call, another for backlog, with OCRs reviewing alternately one from each
<barry> danilos: +1
<jtv> oh, practical problem: how does the next reviewer know which *branch*?  that's too long to record in the topic
<barry> jtv: give an mp #?
<danilos> how about just using links to bugs or MPs?
<jtv> Yeah, nick:mp# would do it for me
<barry> danilos: i think that makes the topic too long
<abentley> hmm: The MP ids are unique.  Maybe we should provide a direct link to them.
<danilos> abentley: yeah, that would be an improvement (something like we have for bugs)
<barry> abentley: do you mean, have the bot recognize "mp 1234"?
<danilos> barry: I meant only bug ids (and bugs will point to branches, which will point to mps :)
<barry> danilos: ah yes, fair enough
<danilos> I'd prefer a bookmarklet https://code.launchpad.net/+merge-proposal/%s :)
<jtv> danilos: good idea, but blueprint names get longer
<danilos> jtv: they are also not linked to branches afaik
<abentley> barry: No, I meant to be able to put code.launchpad.net/mp/1234 as a url.
<barry> abentley, jtv, danilos let's see if we can hash out the details on the ml
<jtv> danilos: good point :)
<barry> only a couple of minutes left, so...
<barry>  * gary to email list about RENormalizing test, investigate alternate inline spellings
<gary_poster> done.  See how to do it.  doctest not easily extensible for this, so will need to hack.
<barry> i think that one's done
<barry> gary_poster: thanks
<barry>  * barry to add `pretty()` functions to reviewers docs
<barry> i suck, not done
<barry>  * flacoste to work on API reviewer cheat sheet
<flacoste> i suck, not done
<barry> [TOPIC] peanut gallery
<MootBot> New Topic:  peanut gallery
<danilos> I'd like to raise one issue here
<barry> does anybody have anything not on the agenda?
<barry> danilos: go4it
<flacoste> if it's not done next week, i change my name to flacoste_hoover
<danilos> the lightness of our reviews makes them not be that useful anymore as a learning tool
<barry> flacoste: :)
<danilos> we need to reiterate some points even if they are not necessarily what we expect developer to do
<flacoste> what do you mean?
<flacoste> or can you give an example?
<danilos> eg. concrete example I have: we should mention LaunchpadForm for any form which is not using it
<flacoste> good point
<danilos> Henning was not aware of LaunchpadForm and hacked around even though he modified quite a few forms before
<danilos> just a question for reviewers to ask: "why is this not using this and that infrastructure we have"
<barry> danilos: +1
<gmb> I didn't realise that our reviews were that shallow.
 * bigjools fears for future Soyuz reviews
<gmb> Just last week EdwinGrubbs pointed out a much easier way for me to do something that I'd spent ages hacking around with.
<danilos> (even if reviewer knows the answer, we should help developers get to learn more about existing infrastructure, since there's so much of it)
<bigjools> we need an infrastructure cheat sheet
<gmb> bigjools: The only way you can have a shallow soyuz review is if the person doing the review is dead.
<al-maisan> :)
<gary_poster> :-)
<flacoste> lol
<bigjools> gmb: that can be arranged!
<danilos> bigjools: the idea is not to force people to switch to new infrastructure, just to be aware of it, and understand why it's not being used
<bigjools> danilos: that's fine - I just know that we have lots of, er, legacy code shall we say, done before a lot of the infrastructure was in place
<bac> it works the other way too.  yesterday i saw something cool sinzui was doing in a doctest i was reviewing and adopted it.
<danilos> bac: indeed
<bigjools> bac: yes, that's a great reason to be a reviewer
<danilos> anyway, we're over time already, and I think I am done
<barry> bac: we should find a way to share those insights across the team!
<barry> danilos: thanks. and apologies for going over
 * sinzui just wanted the code to be readible
<danilos> barry: we've tried so far to do that using wikis and mailing lists, but it doesn't really work out
<mars> danilos, how about cleaning up technical debt as a learning exercise, rather than reviewing or using a cheat sheet?
 * barry will eagerly await bac's email describing this insight :)
<bigjools> I would like a cheat sheet, personally
<mars> that's how I started - fixing callsites, submitting 2000-line patches...
<jtv> mars: it's not always stuff you'd easily recognize as tech debt
<gary_poster> cheat sheets get awfully big
<bigjools> then the info is shared
<gary_poster> we already have some
<danilos> gary_poster: only if you want to cheat in everything you do :)
<gary_poster> that are really really big
<gary_poster> :-)
<bigjools> gary_poster: they can't get bigger than the doctests we have though :)
<gary_poster> heh
<barry> :)
<barry> anyway.  let's break for today
<barry> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 09:50.
<flacoste> thanks barry
<barry> thanks everyone!
<bigjools> thanks barry
<jtv> thanks barry
<gary_poster> thanks, bye
<danilos> thanks all
<barry> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 17:01. The chair is barry.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<barry> hello and welcome to the first of our newly scheduled asiapac reviewers meetings.  who's here today?
 * barry pings jml thumper and mwhudson 
<mwhudson> hello
 * thumper pongs
<thumper> :)
<jml> barry: hi
<barry> yay!  how's it going guys?
<thumper> busy
<jml> yeah, very busy
<thumper> too many things to do at once
<barry> mwhudson: very very busy?
<jml> people keep finding bugs in our software
<thumper> oh, and I have a dentist appt in 1 hour
<mwhudson> barry: you guessed it!
<thumper> which I need to walk to
<barry> well then, we'll make this quick!
<barry> [TOPIC] agenda
<MootBot> New Topic:  agenda
<barry> * Roll call
<barry>  * asiapac meeting time change
<barry>  * deprecate zapi and ztapi in favor of zope.component APIs, gary
<barry>  * Action items
<barry>  * Mentoring update
<barry>  * Peanut gallery (anything not on the agenda)
<barry> that's basically copied from the ameu meeting this morning, which i have not had time to write up yet
<thumper> ok
<mwhudson> well the first one seems to have worked
<barry> indeed!
<barry> [TOPIC]  * deprecate zapi and ztapi in favor of zope.component APIs, gary
<MootBot> New Topic:   * deprecate zapi and ztapi in favor of zope.component APIs, gary
<barry> let me see if i can channel gary_poster
<thumper> do anyone outside foundations care?
<jml> barry_imposter
<thumper> haha
<barry> thumper: probably not.  there's only about 70 hits for both in our code base
<mwhudson> i've used ztapi in a test i think once
<barry> and most of those are in very old code
<mwhudson> i won't do it again :)
<mwhudson> next
<barry> mwhudson: yeah, you better not.  gary_poster is a big guy
<barry> [TOPIC]  * Action items
<MootBot> New Topic:   * Action items
<mwhudson> i can't imagine him as a brawler though some how
<barry> :)
<barry>  * abentley to email ml and gustavo with suggestions for improving storm
<jml> I think that's been done for some time :)
<barry> abentley: right.  though today we talked about an experiment that abentley will conduct to see if he can create a base class that makes some annoyances simpler
<barry> we still do not want to use the sqlobject shim
<jml> barry: sure.
<barry> we were generally agreed that native storm class defs and queries are fine with us
<jml> ok.
<barry> though foo_id is boring
<barry> and needing to specify the store is boring
<barry> we'll see what he comes up with
<thumper> LPStorm class?
<jml> it's also complicated :)
<mwhudson> do you have to have the foo_id as a separate definition?
<jml> barry: so I guess this is out-of-scope for reviewer meetings for the moment?
<barry> thumper: something like that, tho i suspect a metaclass may be necessary
<thumper> mwhudson: I believe so
<barry> mwhudson: yep
<thumper> I've seen both field_id and fieldID
<thumper> do we have a standard?
<barry> mwhudson: foo_id = Int(primary=True); foo = Reference(foo_id, Foo.id)
<barry> thumper: we do not
 * barry prefers and uses foo_id
 * thumper votes for field_id
<barry> thumper: rock on
<mwhudson> barry: wouldn't foo = Reference(Int(primary=True), Foo.id) work?
<barry> mwhudson: interesting!  dunno
<thumper> barry: can you add an agenda item to add it for the next reviewer meeting
<mwhudson> if it does, i think we can write a convenience class....
<barry> [ACTION] barry will add foo_id vs fooID to next reviewers meeting
<MootBot> ACTION received:  barry will add foo_id vs fooID to next reviewers meeting
<mwhudson> FKeyIDRef or something
<thumper> mwhudson: sometimes you need to do field.foo_id.is_in([1,2,3])
<jml> mwhudson: best. name. evar. :P
<mwhudson> ah ok
<thumper> mwhudson: a bit hard to do without a defined foo_id
<mwhudson> i should mention this on the list i guess
<barry> mwhudson: please do
<barry> next?
<thumper> ya
<thumper> yarp
<barry>  * flacoste to take dead zone reviews issue to ml
<barry> he did this
<barry> jtv was at our meeting and i think we've decided on mp + cover + an irc cue
<barry> basically jtv and stub would add a cue to the, er queue to let ocrs know that thye have branches they'd like reviewed
<barry> or something like that.  i don't remember the details, but i'll write it up when i go through the minutes
<thumper> I've also cleaned up the claiming a team review
<thumper> so we should have less pending team review
<thumper> s
<thumper> when someone has done one
<mwhudson> i guess in time, jtv and stub will end up reviewing each other's branches a lot
<barry> yep, stubs a mentat now
<jml> thumper: the remaining issue is that it's still hard to see which branches need review.
<thumper> action for me: make sure a default reviewer is added through bzr send if none specified
 * thumper thinks
<thumper> if we have a bug for this
<barry> thumper: yes please.  and btw, i used bzr send for the first time yesterday. awesome sauce
<thumper> increase its priority
<jml> thumper: partly because the mp status isn't always updated.
<thumper> barry: just wait for the changes with jml is reviewing
<thumper> jml: I've got some ideas
<thumper> lets make the views better
<jml> thumper: partly because there aren't clear mp statuses for "reviewed, waiting on reply"
 * barry *can't* wait :)
<thumper> jml: lets make one
<thumper> jml: we use a decorated class now anyway
<jml> thumper: let's talk about it after :)
<thumper> jml: let's just invent a new status column
 * thumper nods
<barry> sounds good.  thanks guys
<barry>  * gary to email list about RENormalizing test, investigate alternate inline spellings
<barry> he did this
<barry> doctest is hard to extend
<barry> 'nuff said
 * jml coughs politely
 * mwhudson is tempted to say "two wrongs don't make a right"
<barry> :)
<barry> both flacoste and i suck at our two action items so i won't even mention them
<mwhudson> if you can't specify this close-to-inline, it's a terrible terrible idea
<jml> barry: you probably should :)
<mwhudson> otherwise, it's just terrible, perhaps
<barry>  * barry to add `pretty()` functions to reviewers docs
<barry>  * flacoste to work on API reviewer cheat sheet
<jml> these are both good ideas.
<barry> mwhudson: we all agree on that!
<mwhudson> good
<barry> jml: yep, we should suck less and do more
<barry> anyway, that's about it for my list.  do you guys have anything y'all want to talk about?
<thumper> I'm working my way through the code-review bugs
<thumper> if people have a strong opinion about something
<thumper> they should contact me directly
<jml> barry: I have a couple of things
<thumper> otherwise they'll be fixed in thumper-priority
<mwhudson> i guess i could say the same about loggerhead/codebrowse
<barry> thumper: isn't that thumpertime?
<barry> thumper: thanks
<barry> jml: go ahead
<thumper> barry: something like that :)
<jml> first, the reviewer checklist
<jml> 1. it's getting kind of long
<jml> 2, it's hard to find
<jml> the first one is a someday/maybe thing
<jml> i.e. it doesn't matter too much, but it would be nice if it were shorter and more usable
<jml> but I actually don't know where to find the latest version :)
<barry> agreed, agreed. it's on My List to garden it and move it to dev.lp.net
<jml> cool.
<jml> second, mentoring
<jml> I'm mentoring stub, and I don't feel I'm doing a particularly good job of it.
<barry> jml: because of the tz?
<jml> barry: partly
<jml> barry: in more than one way, actually. there's not a huge deal of overlap, for a start.
<jml> barry: but also my OCR day is busiest in the morning, as people from the Americas submit things on their Thursday evening.
<barry> jml: and you overlap with stub in the morning?
<jml> my afternoon.
<thumper> stub's morning
<barry> jml: i can chat with flacoste and/or stub if you want to see if we can line someone else up
<jml> also, are there any docs on mentoring on the wiki?
<barry> jml: some i think, but probably not much
<jml> barry: that might be a good idea. let's leave it for another week though & see how it goes.
<mwhudson> overlapping in the mentees morning isn't really the right end of things, i guess
<barry> jml: sounds good
<jml> that's it from me.
<barry> that tz is just a challenge all around unfortunately
<barry> cool, thanks jml.  anything else guys?
<thumper> nope
<mwhudson> nope
<barry> guess we're done!
<barry> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 17:28.
<thumper> yay
<mwhudson> thanks bazza
<barry> thanks.  btw, i really like this meeting time
<jml> barry: ya :)
<jml> me too.
<barry> great! see y'all back at the ranch
#launchpad-meeting 2009-02-12
<Ursinha> #startmeeting
<Ursinha> Welcome to this week's Launchpad Production Meeting. For the next 45 minutes or so, we'll be coordinating the resolution of specific Launchpad bugs and issues.
<MootBot> Meeting started at 09:00. The chair is Ursinha.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<Ursinha> [TOPIC] Roll Call
<Ursinha> Not on the Launchpad Dev team? Welcome! Come "me" with the rest of us!
<MootBot> New Topic:  Roll Call
<Ursinha> me
<bigjools> me
<herb> me
<henninge> me
<intellectronica> me
<Ursinha> rockstar, ping
<rockstar> me
<sinzui> me
<Ursinha> is stub here?
<Ursinha> flacoste, ping
<flacoste> me
<stub> yer
<Ursinha> good :)
<Ursinha> all here
<Ursinha> moving on
<Ursinha> [TOPIC] Agenda
<Ursinha> * Actions from last meeting
<Ursinha> * Oops report & Critical Bugs
<Ursinha> * Operations report (mthaddon/herb/spm)
<Ursinha> * DBA report
<MootBot> New Topic:  Agenda
<Ursinha> [TOPIC] * Actions from last meeting
<Ursinha> * losas and stub to fix rollout process to avoid the staging restore problems
<MootBot> New Topic:  * Actions from last meeting
<Ursinha> stub, herb, how was that?
<stub> Pending
<Ursinha> stub, plans to fix that soon?
<herb> we are back to doing full restores though.
<flacoste> and we have a fall-back non-replicated DB in case it fails
<Ursinha> right, so it's, let's say, under control
<flacoste> the in-place upgrade (without a DB restore) might still be broken though
<stub> I plan to look at it tomorrow, but have a pretty full schedule and other things more time critical preempting it.
<flacoste> and stub is supposed to investigate tomorrow
<Ursinha> right
<Ursinha> [action] stub to investigate the fix to avoid staging restore problems
<MootBot> ACTION received:  stub to investigate the fix to avoid staging restore problems
<Ursinha> next
<Ursinha> [TOPIC] * Oops report & Critical Bugs
<Ursinha> 4 oopses (soyuz, 2 bugs, code), 1 bug (registry)
<MootBot> New Topic:  * Oops report & Critical Bugs
<Ursinha> bigjools, https://lp-oops.canonical.com/oops.py/?oopsid=OOPS-1138B2582
<ubottu> https://devpad.canonical.com/~jamesh/oops.cgi/1138B2582
<Ursinha> bigjools, this is still happening, afaics
<bigjools> oo that's a new one on me
<Ursinha> new?
<bigjools> in fact it's a bugs oops :)
 * Ursinha looks if it's the right link
<Ursinha> aww FAIL
<Ursinha> sorry bigjools :)
<Ursinha> intellectronica, let me show the bugs ones
<Ursinha> intellectronica, this one, https://lp-oops.canonical.com/oops.py/?oopsid=OOPS-1138B2582
<ubottu> https://devpad.canonical.com/~jamesh/oops.cgi/1138B2582
<Ursinha> and https://lp-oops.canonical.com/oops.py/?oopsid=OOPS-1137F2893, not sure if it's bugs though
<ubottu> https://devpad.canonical.com/~jamesh/oops.cgi/1137F2893
<Ursinha> the last one: https://lp-oops.canonical.com/oops.py/?oopsid=OOPS-1138EC328
<Ursinha> rockstar, are you awake enough to look an oops? :)
 * rockstar grunts
<Ursinha> rockstar, https://lp-oops.canonical.com/oops.py/?oopsid=OOPS-1138CEMAIL12
<rockstar> Ursinha, already filed a bug on that one, will be fixing it today.
<Ursinha> rockstar, do you have the bug #?
<rockstar> Ah man, it's early!
<Ursinha> rockstar, sorry!
<Ursinha> rockstar, right. stick to the fix and I'll find the number
<Ursinha> thanks :)
<Ursinha> [action] rockstar to fix https://lp-oops.canonical.com/oops.py/?oopsid=OOPS-1138CEMAIL12
<MootBot> ACTION received:  rockstar to fix https://lp-oops.canonical.com/oops.py/?oopsid=OOPS-1138CEMAIL12
<Ursinha> intellectronica, are you there?
<intellectronica> Ursinha: looking at the oopses, sorry
<Ursinha> sinzui, bug 237722 is happening lately
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 237722 in launchpad-registry "Cyclical team membership allowed in +editproposedmembers" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/237722
<Ursinha> thanks ubottu
<sinzui> Ursinha: I'll have someone look into it
<Ursinha> sinzui, thanks
<Ursinha> [action] sinzui to have someone to fix bug 237722
<MootBot> ACTION received:  sinzui to have someone to fix bug 237722
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 237722 in launchpad-registry "Cyclical team membership allowed in +editproposedmembers" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/237722
<Ursinha> just flooded intellectronica, have to wait for him :)
<intellectronica> Ursinha: i have no idea what that publishTraverse thing is about
<intellectronica> Ursinha: the two others i know. one is the result of changing a task's target, the other is some problem when reporting a bug with apport
<Ursinha> intellectronica, not sure if that's foundations or bugs
<Ursinha> intellectronica, do you want me to file bugs about those?
<rockstar> Ursinha, bug 326056
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 326056 in launchpad-bazaar "OOPS on InvalidStateTransition when reviewing code by mail" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/326056
<intellectronica> Ursinha: yes, please. i'm also not sure about the publishTraverse error, but i can check and ask foundations for help if necessary
<Ursinha> thanks rockstar :)
<Ursinha> intellectronica, I'll file the bugs
<Ursinha> intellectronica, and appreciate the investigation on the mysterious one
<intellectronica> cool, thanks
<Ursinha> [action] Ursinha to file bugs to https://lp-oops.canonical.com/oops.py/?oopsid=OOPS-1138EC328 and https://lp-oops.canonical.com/oops.py/?oopsid=OOPS-1138B2582
<ubottu> https://devpad.canonical.com/~jamesh/oops.cgi/1138B2582
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Ursinha to file bugs to https://lp-oops.canonical.com/oops.py/?oopsid=OOPS-1138EC328 and https://lp-oops.canonical.com/oops.py/?oopsid=OOPS-1138B2582
<ubottu> https://devpad.canonical.com/~jamesh/oops.cgi/1138B2582
<Ursinha> [action] intellectronica to investigate https://lp-oops.canonical.com/oops.py/?oopsid=OOPS-1137F2893
<ubottu> https://devpad.canonical.com/~jamesh/oops.cgi/1137F2893
<MootBot> ACTION received:  intellectronica to investigate https://lp-oops.canonical.com/oops.py/?oopsid=OOPS-1137F2893
<ubottu> https://devpad.canonical.com/~jamesh/oops.cgi/1137F2893
<Ursinha> right
<Ursinha> no critical bugs
<Ursinha> moving on
<Ursinha> [TOPIC] * Operations report (mthaddon/herb/spm)
<MootBot> New Topic:  * Operations report (mthaddon/herb/spm)
<herb> 2009-02-05 - We rolled out r44 to codebrowse.
<herb> 2009-02-09 - Cherry picked r7716 to lpnet* and the scripts server.
<herb> 2009-02-12 - Earlier today cherry picked r7721 to lpnet*.
<herb> We continue to have problems with codebrowse relating to bug #156453 and bug #118625.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 156453 in loggerhead "production loggerhead branch leaks memory" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/156453
<herb> We also continue to have problems related to #260171.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 118625 in launchpad-bazaar "codebrowse sometimes hangs" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/118625
<Ursinha> rockstar, do you know how's mwhudson work on bug 260171?
<ubottu> Bug 260171 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/260171 is private
<rockstar> All I know is that I've seen lots of reviews going through for loggerhead.  That basically all he's been working on.
<Ursinha> rockstar, nice to know
<Ursinha> I'll ask matsubara to talk to him about it today
<Ursinha> thanks rockstar
<Ursinha> herb, anything else?
<herb> that's it. unless there are other questions.
<Ursinha> questions for herb?
<Ursinha> herb, I'll find out that bug  status and will let you know
<herb> thanks Ursinha.
<Ursinha> thanks herb
<Ursinha> moving on
<Ursinha> [TOPIC] * DBA report (DBA contact)
<MootBot> New Topic:  * DBA report (DBA contact)
<stub> There is a backlog of DB patch reviews I need to process tomorrow and collate for Mark. If it isn't already, please make sure your branches appear on https://code.launchpad.net/~stub/+requestedreviews so I'm less likely to lose them :)
<stub> The Slony-I replication stopped for a while yesterday. Nagios alert triggered elmo to trigger me. I restarted the replication daemons and monitored it while it resynced. Users didn't notice, except perhaps for a performance degredation.
<stub> I don't know what the cause was, as we managed to lose the relevant logs. This was the first hiccup since we switched replication on, and everything recovered a it was supposed to, so I don't think we have anything to worry about. IS appears to have done the changes they needed to to stop us losing the logs last week, so I can now complete the processs (RT #32320 - switching to the /etc/init.d script to control the daemons rather than the h
<stub> Staging is moving to a new hope 'in a few weeks', and demo can be resurrected then too. Yay!
<Ursinha> \o/
<stub> c/hope/home (Freudian slip!)
<Ursinha> awesome to hear
<Ursinha> ahahaha
<Ursinha> anything for stub?
<henninge> stub:
<henninge> stub: I cannot access ~requestedreviews
<flacoste> intellectronica: the publishTraverse things is caused because the user is going to +edit on the attachment and traversing to the attachement probably returns a RedirectionView
<Ursinha> flacoste is the one who always have last minute notes :)
<henninge> I get Unauthorized: (<Branch u'~barry/launchpad/affiliations-db' (35874)>, 'container', 'launchpad.View')<br />
<Ursinha> ha!
<stub> So just make sure you have a Pending review request to me personally (rather than a team)
<intellectronica> flacoste: oh, i see
<henninge> stub: okay
<stub> I'll be checking the ~launchpad and ~launchpad-reviews lists too, but better safe than slipped
<stub> And my mailbox queues
<stub> And my todo list
<henninge> :-D
<Ursinha> :)
<flacoste> to many places to check...
<flacoste> something will be lost :-)
<stub> Indeed. We need a code review system!
<Ursinha> lol
<flacoste> that's mean :-)
<Ursinha> well
<Ursinha> anything else?
<Ursinha> 5
<Ursinha> 4
<Ursinha> 3
<Ursinha> 2
<Ursinha> 1
<Ursinha> Thank you all for attending this week's Launchpad Production Meeting. See the channel topic for the location of the logs.
<Ursinha> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 09:28.
<flacoste> intellectronica: arguably, we could change RedirectionView to raise NotFound whenever publishTraverse is call, so that these kind of OOPses don't happen
<intellectronica> flacoste: but, why can't we redirect and then traverse?
<flacoste> intellectronica: for that kind of behaviour you want redirectSubtree
<flacoste> intellectronica: which redirect to a URL and append everything after it
<flacoste> intellectronica: but would that work in that case? where are you redirecting?
<Ursinha> thanks all
<intellectronica> flacoste: no idea, i wouldn't expect this to redirect
#launchpad-meeting 2010-02-17
<bac> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 09:00. The chair is bac.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<bac> Hi and welcome to the Launchpad Reviewers Meeting.  Who is here today?
<abentley> me
<adeuring> me
<sinzui> me
<deryck> me
<henninge> me
<bac> gary_poster, bigjools, flacoste, mars, EdwinGrubbs_, gmb, allenap:ping
<gmb> me
<bigjools> o/
<flacoste> me
<bac> BjornT_: ping
<mars> bac, my apologies, on CHR
<bac> mars: ok, thanks
<bac> who've i forgotten to harass?
<bac> noodles775: ping
<henninge> bac: I already pinged danilos ...
<danilos> oh, me :)
<bac> is jtv around?
<henninge> bac: nope, getting an identity
<bac> ok, well let's proceed and hope stragglers will arrive in due time.
<bac> not much no the agenda today so perhaps it'll be a brief meeting
<bac> [topic] agenda
<MootBot> New Topic:  agenda
<bac>  * Roll call
<bac>  * Action items
<bac>  * Peanut gallery (anything not on the agenda)
<bac> [topic] Action items
<MootBot> New Topic:  Action items
<bac> [topic] * allenap to start discussion on the ML about doctest size, refactoring, moving corner cases to unittests, etc (done, 10-Feb)
<MootBot> New Topic:  * allenap to start discussion on the ML about doctest size, refactoring, moving corner cases to unittests, etc (done, 10-Feb)
<bac> allenap: as noted, i see you did follow through.  thanks.
<allenap> me
<allenap> bac: Yes, though I need to reply to the replies :-/
<bac> allenap: ok, thanks.  there was some discussion last week and lots of agreement.
<salgado> me
<bac> [topic] * gary_poster to do timing tests for try/except, examine current usage of check_permission, and we'll discuss again 17-Feb.
<MootBot> New Topic:  * gary_poster to do timing tests for try/except, examine current usage of check_permission, and we'll discuss again 17-Feb.
<bac> gary isn't here ATM so let's leave that one on the list and move on.
<bac> [topic] * salgado to update the wiki page to encourage reviews with sufficient context.
<MootBot> New Topic:  * salgado to update the wiki page to encourage reviews with sufficient context.
<salgado> I didn't do it
<bac> salgado: ok.  think you can do that for next week?
<salgado> sure!
<bac> [topic] * bac to update wiki page to make clear community contributor landing responsibilities
<MootBot> New Topic:  * bac to update wiki page to make clear community contributor landing responsibilities
<gary_poster> try/except: correct, but I'll do it right now.
 * bac fail
<bac> [topic] * henninge to update guidelines to allow lambda in twisted context
<MootBot> New Topic:  * henninge to update guidelines to allow lambda in twisted context
<EdwinGrubbs_> me
<henninge> Done.
<bac> \o/
<bac> [topic] * leonardr to create an example for automated lplib tests in the launchpad tree
<MootBot> New Topic:  * leonardr to create an example for automated lplib tests in the launchpad tree
<bac> gary_poster: did leonardr actually know about this?  i didn't tell him.  did you?
<gary_poster> bac: no, it is something in our plans generally
<bac> gary_poster: any idea when it'll happen?  if it's just a foundations TODO i'll take it off this list.
<gary_poster> bac: is it reasonable to have a "check on this in a month" action item?
<gary_poster> Yeah that's fine
<bac> [topic] peanut gallery -- items not on the agenda
<MootBot> New Topic:  peanut gallery -- items not on the agenda
<bac> anyone have something to discuss?
<bac> ok, let's adjourn.
<bac> thanks for coming.
<bac> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 09:14.
<bigjools> quick!
<bac> no sense dawdling...
<thumper> bac: meeting?
<bac> thumper: sure.  it completely slipped my mind
<bac> is mwhudson around?
<bac> and rockstar?
<rockstar> Hi
 * rockstar are here
<bac> does anyone else come to this one?
<bac> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 15:36. The chair is bac.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<mwhudson> hello
<bac> welcome to the ASIAPAC + Rocky Mountain reviewers meeting
<bac> this ought to be pretty quick, unless you all brought topics of conversation
<thumper> I didn't
 * mwhudson neither
<bac> today's AMEU meeting was very straightforward.  we just checked in out past action items and discovered everyone but Gavin was incredibly slack
<mwhudson> heh heh
<bac> last week allenap started the conversation on the ML about limiting the size of doc tests.  chime in on it if you have thoughts.
<thumper> my thoughts revolve around not liking doc tests
<bac> those of use who had things to do but failed are:
<bac> gary_poster to do timing tests for try/except, examine current usage of check_permission, and we'll discuss again 24-Feb.
<bac> salgado to update the wiki page to encourage reviews with sufficient context.
<bac> bac to update wiki page to make clear community contributor landing responsibilities
<bac> leonardr to create an example for automated lplib tests in the launchpad tree. (revisit 17-Mar).
<mwhudson> was that the same thread where BjornT_ talked about actually using doctests as documentation?
<mwhudson> because that would be a very good idea
<bac> mwhudson: yeah, i believe so.  i must admit i have that thread in my inbox to review in detail
 * gary_poster seems to be agreeing, though the sounds are distant
<bac> so, rockstar you have anything to discuss?
<rockstar> I did, but I can't, for the life of me, remember what it was.
<rockstar> So, no.
<bac> this meeting is scheduled for 2100UTC but i forgot about it and last week thumper was busy then.  is 2130 better?  matters not one bit to me.
<thumper> yes, it is better for me, I have a call with mrjazzcat at 2100
<bac> thumper: ok.  anyone opposed to moving it to 2130?  thumper is that too early or is it good to bound your earlier call?
<thumper> 2130 is good
<thumper> at least until DST ends
<bac> ok
<bac> i'll update the team calendar...and set an alarm for myself
<rockstar> thumper, DST hasn't started yet...  :)
 * thumper shakes his head...
<bac> otherwise i've got nothing else.  see you next week...
<bac> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 15:44.
 * thumper resisted the urge to smack rockstar around
<mwhudson> thanks bac
#launchpad-meeting 2010-02-18
<matsubara> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 10:00. The chair is matsubara.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<matsubara> Welcome to this week's Launchpad Production Meeting. For the next 45 minutes or so, we'll be coordinating the resolution of specific Launchpad bugs and issues.
<matsubara> [TOPIC] Roll Call
<MootBot> New Topic:  Roll Call
<matsubara> Not on the Launchpad Dev team? Welcome! Come "me" with the rest of us!
<matsubara> Chex, gary_poster, rockstar, Ursinha, bigjools, danilos, sinzui1, allenap: hi
<sinzui1> me
<Ursinha> me
<danilos> me
<Chex> moi
<danilos> matsubara, hi :)
<bigjools> me, if it's faster than last week :)
<gary_poster> matsubara: on IS call as I mentioned.
<matsubara> gary_poster, all right.
<gary_poster> matsubara: added notes to the two bugs that were my action items
<matsubara> thanks gary_poster
<matsubara> so, let's move on, rockstar and allenap can join in along the way
<matsubara> [TOPIC] Agenda
<MootBot> New Topic:  Agenda
<matsubara>  * Actions from last meeting
<matsubara>  * Oops report & Critical Bugs & Broken scripts
<matsubara>  * Operations report (mthaddon/Chex/spm/mbarnett)
<matsubara>  * DBA report (stub)
<matsubara>  * Proposed items
<matsubara> [TOPIC] * Actions from last meeting
<MootBot> New Topic:  * Actions from last meeting
<matsubara>  * Ursinha to talk to mwhudson about bug 513412
<matsubara>  * rockstar to investigate OOPS-1480CMP1 and fill in details on bug 517126
<matsubara>  * gary_poster to check status on work for DisconnectionErrors (bug 450593) and assign bug 403618 to someone in foundations
<matsubara>  * Ursinha to set up StrategyTeamTestPlan wiki for jml,mrevell
<ubottu> Bug 513412 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/513412 is private
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 517126 in launchpad-code "BzrCheckError raised creating a merge proposal" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/517126
<ubottu> https://lp-oops.canonical.com/oops.py/?oopsid=1480CMP1
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 450593 in launchpad-foundations "Still seeing non-informational DisconnectionErrors on login servers" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/450593
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 403618 in launchpad-foundations "Launchpad should return a 404 instead of ForbiddenAttribute OOPS" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/403618
<Ursinha> matsubara: I've set up the testplan for Strategy team
<matsubara> cool.
<Ursinha> matsubara: and I can't access the bug to see if I commented on it
<Ursinha> :/
<matsubara> and gary_poster commented on both bugs
<Ursinha> matsubara: I'll check
<matsubara> Ursinha, it's private for me too
<matsubara> Ursinha, ask one of the losas to subscribe the lp team to it
<Ursinha> matsubara: I'll do that
<matsubara> [action] * rockstar to investigate OOPS-1480CMP1 and fill in details on bug 517126
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 517126 in launchpad-code "BzrCheckError raised creating a merge proposal" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/517126
<MootBot> ACTION received:  * rockstar to investigate OOPS-1480CMP1 and fill in details on bug 517126
<ubottu> https://lp-oops.canonical.com/oops.py/?oopsid=1480CMP1
<ubottu> https://lp-oops.canonical.com/oops.py/?oopsid=1480CMP1
<mrjazzcat> matsubara: whew, made it
<matsubara> hi mrjazzcat, welcome
<Ursinha> :)
<matsubara> Ursinha, shall I re-add the action item for the one you need to talk to mwhudson about?
<Ursinha> matsubara: please
<matsubara> [action] * Ursinha to talk to mwhudson about bug 513412
<MootBot> ACTION received:  * Ursinha to talk to mwhudson about bug 513412
<ubottu> Bug 513412 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/513412 is private
<ubottu> Bug 513412 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/513412 is private
<Ursinha> matsubara: as soon as I confirm I'll leave a comment there
<matsubara> ok, thanks
<matsubara> [TOPIC] * Oops report & Critical Bugs & Broken scripts
<MootBot> New Topic:  * Oops report & Critical Bugs & Broken scripts
<Ursinha> okay
<Ursinha> so I'd like to bring up a timeout weirdness I saw, I've filed bug 523904 for that
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 523904 in malone "Distribution:+bugs timing out" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/523904
<Ursinha> allenap: this bug is about a bunch of timeouts in Distro:+bugs
<Ursinha> allenap: but they apparently happened in a short period of time, and I couldn't find anything in the LP incident log
<Ursinha> allenap: could you take a look, please?
<matsubara> can you reproduce that bug Ursinha ?
<Ursinha> matsubara: not consistently
<matsubara> [action] allenap to investigate bug 523904
<MootBot> ACTION received:  allenap to investigate bug 523904
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 523904 in malone "Distribution:+bugs timing out" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/523904
<Ursinha> matsubara: but it times out from time to time and given the number of timeouts it would be great to investigate what happened
<sinzui> We are seeing a frequent timeouts on edge /ubuntu/lucid/+packaging and +needs-packaging. I reported a bug and will try to land a fix today
<Ursinha> thanks sinzui
<matsubara> any other oopses Ursinha ?
<Ursinha> the other bugs with most oopses are fix committed
<Ursinha> so, no
<matsubara> we have 4 critical bugs, all fix committed
<matsubara> yay!
<Ursinha> :)
<Ursinha> there are two scripts I've seen failing a couple of times lately
<Ursinha> productreleasefinder and allocate-revision-karma
<Ursinha> sinzui: do you know if prf one is legit?
<Ursinha> the failures, that is
<Ursinha> the other one I guess rockstar would be the best person to ask
<Ursinha> after that, I'm done
<sinzui> Ursinha: I am waiting to see if it fails again. It should be running right now
<Ursinha> sinzui: right
<Ursinha> matsubara: [action] Ursinha to ask rockstar about allocate-revision-karma failures
<matsubara> [action] Ursinha to ask rockstar about allocate-revision-karma failures
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Ursinha to ask rockstar about allocate-revision-karma failures
<matsubara> ok, let's move on
<matsubara> [TOPIC] * Operations report (mthaddon/Chex/spm/mbarnett)
<MootBot> New Topic:  * Operations report (mthaddon/Chex/spm/mbarnett)
<Chex> hello everyone
<Chex> quick report this week:
<Chex> - DB Replication Lag/Slave-master issue: We are still running on the fake lag script pointing all traffic at
<Chex> the main production db. Has there been any new progress with this issue?
<sinzui> did edge just fall off the earth?
<Chex> - LP incidents of note:
<Chex>         ; Codebrowse restarts, we are getting better debugging info with mwhudson's help.
<Chex> anyone have any questions or comments?
<Ursinha> Chex: I have one request: could you subscribe lp team to bug 513412, please?
<ubottu> Bug 513412 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/513412 is private
<Chex> Ursinha: yes sure
<Ursinha> sinzui: what do you mean?
<Ursinha> Chex: thanks!
<sinzui> edge is slow, and users on #launchpad are reporting lots of timeouts. The I got a server is down from edge
<Chex> Ursinha: done
<Ursinha> Chex: great, thanks a lot
<Ursinha> sinzui: hm, it's working quite well here... anyone else noticing that?
<sinzui> I wonder if we have a bad server is rotation. I can have great loads and Please try again pages
<Ursinha> Chex: do you know if there's an incident going on?
<Chex> Ursinha: I am not seeing anything specific in our Lp monitoring, checking some more
<matsubara> ok, I guess we can move on and see if the timeouts are worrisome outside the meeting
<matsubara> thanks Chex, Ursinha and sinzui
<matsubara> [TOPIC] * DBA report (stub)
<MootBot> New Topic:  * DBA report (stub)
<matsubara> I'll ask stub to email the report
<matsubara> [TOPIC] * Proposed items
<MootBot> New Topic:  * Proposed items
<matsubara> no new proposed items
<matsubara> anything else before I close?
<matsubara> Thank you all for attending this week's Launchpad Production Meeting. See https://dev.launchpad.net/MeetingAgenda for the logs.
<matsubara> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:26.
<Ursinha> thanks all
<mrjazzcat> ciao
<Ursinha> matsubara: I still can't access that bug, does it work for you?
<Ursinha> bug 513412
<ubottu> Bug 513412 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/513412 is private
<Ursinha> and yes, I'm logged in :)
<matsubara> Ursinha, nope
<icarly15> hello?
<rockstar> icarly15, this channel is for launchpad meetings only.  If you need assistance with launchpad, you should use #launchpad.
<icarly15> what is launchpad?
<icarly15> do you mean like space shuttles?
<rockstar> icarly15, http://www.launchpad.net
<icarly15> hold on lett me check it out
<icarly15> sorry, could u explain to me i dont understand what it is for?
<rockstar> icarly15, http://help.launchpad.net
<icarly15> plesase what is launchpad used for
<icarly15> damit what is it USED FOR!!
<Ursinha>  /17
<Ursinha> argh
<statik> hey jml, are you at pycon already? i'd like to find some people to have dinner with
#launchpad-meeting 2011-02-14
<joey> jml, thanks to our friendly freenode op tomaw, this channel is fixed !
