#ubuntustudio-devel 2010-07-19
<ScottL> ardour (bug 581786) mute bug SRU is uploaded....thanks again, crimsun_ 
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 581786 in ardour (Ubuntu Lucid) "Mute button not enabled by default in Ardour 2.8.6 Lucid AM64" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/581786
<quadrispro> hello guys!
<quadrispro> I am very sad to see composite failing to build from source :(
<quadrispro> *sob*
<quadrispro> ScottL, lv2fil and vocproc are in maverick too
<quadrispro> falktx, are you working on any lv2-related stuff?
<falktx> quadrispro: not right now
<falktx> quadrispro: just updating some packages
<quadrispro> falktx, now I can add you to the team on alioth by hand
<quadrispro> falktx, what's your nick on alioth?
<falktx> alioth?
<falktx> btw, quadrispro, a list of my ppa changes is online in this file - http://kxstudio.sourceforge.net/downloads/PPA-Changes
<quadrispro> falktx, alioth.debian.org
<falktx> last time it failed to let me login
<quadrispro> falktx, mmm, did you try to reset your password?
<falktx> yes
<falktx> i will try again now
<quadrispro> great
<quadrispro> hi abogani!
<abogani> quadrispro, Hi!
<falktx> quadrispro: why do I need -guest on the name?
<falktx> quadrispro: got the same error again, logging in as "falkTX-guest"
<falktx> Access denied
<falktx> Credentials you entered do not correspond to valid account.
<quadrispro> falktx, you need to append -guest 'cause of you're not a debian developer
<quadrispro> falktx, try with lowercase
<quadrispro> falktx-guest
<falktx> ok, i'll try
<quadrispro> I fail to see your account on alioth, could you try to follow the registration procedure?
<falktx> quadrispro: finally!
<falktx> send activation as "falktx-guest"
<falktx> damn,...
<quadrispro> what's up?
<quadrispro> going away, falktx: if you have some problem, feel free to mail me
<quadrispro> bye!
<falktx> ok
<falktx> bye
<scott-work> astraljava: are you around?  want to help with some backporting?
<astraljava> scott-work: I'm here, but only for a second. Can you send a request with my nick in front of it, so I can find it later this evening. Oh and the answer is, yes I want to help. :)
<scott-work> capital!
<scott-work> i shall
<astraljava> scott-work: How goes that backporting task?
<scott-work> astraljava: sorry, got busy at work, i will have something typed out for you in about 45 minutes :)
<astraljava> scott-work: No prob. It seems I cannot progress much today anyway, but it would be cool to know the issue, so I can at least make some preparations.
<scott-work> astraljava: there is a bug in qjackctl under lucid that is presents a pretty severe regression in usability
<scott-work> astraljava: the bug for it is:  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/qjackctl/+bug/490436
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 490436 in qjackctl (Ubuntu) "port renames are ignored" [Undecided,Fix released]
<scott-work> astraljava: basically, if you create a track in, say, ardour you can use the current qjackctl to connect and route that track as expected
<scott-work> astraljava: however, if you were to rename that track (or port) before connecting to it, qjackctl would not update the name and you would not be able to connect ot the newly named track (port)
<scott-work> astraljava: there is a laborious workaround however, make all your tracks in ardour, rename then, save in ardour, close *everything* down, restart everything and qjackctl will recognize and accept the track names as they are
<scott-work> astraljava: it is just trying to rename the tracks (ports) during the same session
<scott-work> astraljava:.
<scott-work> astraljava: this was a know bug and fixed by a later upstream release (or two)
<scott-work> astraljava: so it probably will be easier to address this bug for the 10.04.01 rebuilding of ISO's by backporting it officially in the archives since...
<astraljava> scott-work: Gotcha. When's the 10.04.01 rebuilding due?
<scott-work> astraljava:  a) there isn't really a quick, easy patch to be found and b) a simple application update will fix the problems (i.e. no latent configuration files within the user's home directory ala the ardour mute bug)
<scott-work> .
<scott-work> astraljava: so, the goal is to backport qjackctl-0.3.6.1 from maverick to lucid which was qjackctl-0.3.4-0ubuntu4
<scott-work> astraljava: to do this we will need to:
<scott-work> 1. file a bug requesting the backport
<scott-work> 2. get the source from maverick and build it in ppa for lucid
<scott-work> 3. have three (i think?) people confirm that it works in lucid
<scott-work> 4. and probably email/irc jdong or some others in the backports to get this done quickly
<scott-work> astraljava: i don't know your level of expertise or experience with building applications, PPA's, or creating launchpad bugs
<astraljava> scott-work: Okay, well building is not a problem, I do it everyday as my job requires. PPAs I know how to work with, and I've filed several bugs in LP, so shouldn't be a problem.
<scott-work> astraljava: i don't want to innundate you will unnecessary information, therefore i will wait for you to ask questions if you need further directions
<astraljava> scott-work: What is a problem is that I need to upgrade my workhorse to Lucid.
<astraljava> scott-work: But I should be able to do that within a week. But that's exactly why I need to know, when's 10.04.01 due? Do I have time for that?
<scott-work> astraljava: any questions you have (and i welcome them all) can either be directed to scott-work (when available) or ScottL (my laptop at home) and i will help when i am available
<astraljava> scott-work: Cool, thanks for that! :)
<scott-work> astraljava: i plan to be one of the three (i think that is the minimal number per backports team) to validate the backport, perhaps rlameiro or one of the guys from #opensourcemusicians (like holstein)
<scott-work> astraljava: and i'll help with the extra coordination via email/irc to make sure things are proceeding
<holstein> scott-work: what can i do?
<holstein> im not sure i can validate anything, im still waiting on my key to the executive washroom ;)
<holstein> AH
 * holstein reading hte backlog
<holstein> yeah, let me know when its in, and i'll update and test on lucid
<astraljava> Hmm... okay, I've got 10 days... might be a stretch, as I'm not even home all the time...
<holstein> im sure i can find folks to confirm if thats what is needed
<astraljava> But, I'll get to work tomorrow. All I've really got to do is create a lucid pbuilder target and get it to compile.
<astraljava> ScottL: Alright, I'll see if I can borrow some of my employer's time tomorrow and start doing this. That way I should have something visible by the time you're up.
<astraljava> Does anyone really see my posts here? It didn't seem like scott-work did... :)
<astraljava> Ahh... at least irclogs.u.c does. Was confused for a bit there.
<ScottL> astraljava, i'm really sorry that i haven't answered your questions and there is a really good reason for that...i didn't know you were asking them!
<ScottL> astraljava, i use freenode web IRC (IRC in a browswer) and it acts up from time to time and i seriously did not get any of your questions at work
<ScottL> astraljava, i just now saw them that i'm home
<ScottL> hmmm, or holstein's responses either :(
<ScottL> astraljava, the rebuild for 10.04.01 is july 29th
<ScottL> well that's the day it is released so a couple of days before might be a good idea
<ScottL> " find folks to confirm..." thanks holstein 
#ubuntustudio-devel 2010-07-20
<troy_s> ScottL: Shut up and blog more.
<troy_s> ;)
<astraljava> ScottL: Quite alright. :) No harm done, I was able to find the info on my own.
<astraljava> ScottL: I'll see if I can start the thing today, and will post status at some point.
<ScottL> astraljava, i was thining about this just before i woke up, it don't believe it has to be a rush to get this backported before 10.04.01
<ScottL> astraljava, hmmm, i'm not sure that backporting an application will cause the backporting version to be included on the ISO or not
<ScottL> astraljava, of couse, if we can make get it backported before 10.04.01 then we can find out though :)
<falktx> ScottL: backports are not enable by default
<falktx> so it won't be available, i can guess that
<ScottL> thanks falktx, that makes sense
<astraljava> ScottL: Gotcha, good thinking.
<ScottL> "troy_s: Shut up and blog more."
<ScottL> aye, aye, Sir!
<astraljava> ScottL: Okay, remind me again, where can I get the source package including debian/ directory?  It's been a while... :)
<ScottL> astraljava, i like to use "apt-get source qjackctl" in an appropriate directory
<astraljava> ScottL: Problem is I'm not running Maverick.
<ScottL> although you either need to be running a maverick version or have added the maverick repositories for source
<astraljava> ScottL: Hmm... yeah I could do that. One moment.
<ScottL> edit your sources.lst file by hand or use Software Sources, i find the former is quicker if you remember where it is
<ScottL> astraljava, when i'm building applications in PPA i use whatever ubuntu verision i am current on
<ScottL> because i usually add the new sources repository, download the source, adjust the /debian/changelog * , and then upload to my ppa
<ScottL> * = not only increase the revision number but also make sure you change the version from maverick to lucid (in this case)
<astraljava> ScottL: Thanks, that did it.
<ScottL> astraljava, i don't know how familiar you are with PPA and dput but I found this to be a good post about backporting in general and PPA in specific
<ScottL> http://fossmusicproject.blogspot.com/2009/11/ppa.html
<astraljava> ScottL: I've uploaded before, but that was some time ago, so I need to refresh my memory anyway. :D
 * ScottL is heading to work....see you in one hour
<TheMuso> 1/c
<astraljava> scott-work: Which PPA are we going to use for qjackctl? Mine or US's?
<astraljava> scott-work: I created a lucid pbuilder target and built the package successfully.
<astraljava> 0.3.6-1ppa1 is greater than 0.3.6-1, right?
<astraljava> Hmm... LP doesn't "finish" OpenID logins at the first attempt. Happened to me at least twice now.
<astraljava> WTF?! How does one file a bug in LP these days?
<astraljava> Ahh... emails. Goooooooood.
<scott-work> astraljava:  using your own PPA is perfectly acceptable
<scott-work> astraljava: for the version number you might want to use:  0.3.6-1ubuntu1~ppa1
<scott-work> astraljava: at least that is the form that the ppa documentation suggestsion
<scott-work> https://help.launchpad.net/Packaging/PPA/BuildingASourcePackage
<astraljava> scott-work: Okay, I'll do that.
<astraljava> scott-work: Am just in the process of building the source package. :)
<scott-work> astraljava: if you have already uploaded to the PPA you might have to update the revision number to ...~ppa2
<scott-work> oh good, you haven't uploaded then :)
<scott-work> i suppose you could use 'dput -f' to force the upload even with the same version number, but i've been stymied before by Launchpad and PPA
<scott-work> the bug that i'm really worried about is the network bug: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-system-tools/+bug/570828
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 570828 in gnome-system-tools (Ubuntu) "gnome-network-admin on UbuntuStudio doesnt allow to configure either wired networks or wireless" [High,Triaged]
<scott-work> we need to get the disable_gui patch taken out but I can't seem to find anyone who will actually *do* it
<scott-work> i was hoping to have persia help me but he hasn't been around much lately :(
<scott-work> i'll try talking to chris coulson and milan about it again
<scott-work> well, "talking" may not be the right word...."beg" may be closer to reality, lol
<astraljava> scott-work: Okay, once I get this done (waiting for my gpg key to show up in keyserver.u.c), I can start looking at that one.
<scott-work> astraljava: awesome!
<scott-work> astraljava:  i was trying to have someone who is really involved with the package already to remove the patch, but that hasn't worked out very well as i previously mentioned
<astraljava> scott-work: Happens. :)
<astraljava> scott-work: I need to get back to ubuntu work anyway, so might as well get my hands dirty with that.
<scott-work> astraljava: although, you might talk to falktx before you start, he said you can't just remove the patch, but rather you have to apply another patch or something, he has it built sans disable_gui patch in his kxstudio ppa
<astraljava> scott-work: Oh okay.
<scott-work> astraljava: i'm not sure i understand what falktx was saying, however...i thought it would be a simple matter to just remove the patch from the quilt stack (or whatever file name it is) and recompile :/
<scott-work> astraljava: but he was pretty insistent that it couldn't be done that way and needed another patch to fix it, perhaps it was his ignorance of the patch system?
<scott-work> astraljava: and i don't mean ignorance in a deragatory manner, i'm quite ignorant about many, many things :)
<astraljava> scott-work: Yeah I know what you mean. Well I will for sure have a discussion with him before I get that underway.
<scott-work> astraljava: or hell, just try it locally and see what happens :) lol
<astraljava> scott-work: ...or that, duh! :)
<scott-work> lol, i can laugh, because i would have waited to talk to falktx myself because i'm a goofy geek that loses perspective on things like this while i'm doing them :)
<scott-work> astraljava: if you can find a solution to the network bug and we can find someone to upload it to the archives for an SRU, that would be INCREDIBLY AWESOME!
<scott-work> (my opinion) this has been the biggest complaint for users of ubuntu studio for quite a while and it's rather embarrasing to realize how long it took to address (much less to actually realize there was a problem)
<astraljava> scott-work: I understand. Well, I will do my best. Might require an awful lot of help from the more experienced, but that's talk, and I should be able to pull it off.
<astraljava> scott-work: Yay! i386 built.
<scott-work> astraljava: for qjackctl?
<astraljava> scott-work: Yes. This a good bug report? http://paste.ubuntu.com/466599/
<astraljava> Hmm... needs 'affects'. Other than that?
<scott-work> astraljava: other than you should be able to be included as one of the three, i think* it looks fine
<scott-work> * i haven't had too much experience with backports but it looks good to me
<scott-work> however, you might also check :  https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuBackports
<astraljava> scott-work: Oh, dang. That's gonna take some time, as I am leaving town tomorrow morning, and I haven't had my multimedia desktop machine upgraded to lucid. :-/
<scott-work> well, this is more specific and pertinent  https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuBackports#Backport%20Process
<scott-work> oh, no problem then
<scott-work> i just thought you might think that because you reported the bug you might now be accepted as "one of the three"
<astraljava> scott-work: Doesn't seem to describe any firm requirements for the bug report. I'll move in.
<astraljava> scott-work: Oh no, wouldn't do that! :)
<scott-work> astraljava:  :)
<astraljava> scott-work: Building successfully != works :D
<astraljava> scott-work: Bah, having trouble with mutt and gpg signing... so I might file the bug tomorrow as I need to get some sleep already. But we still have time, don't we?
<scott-work> astraljava: oh yeah, there is still plenty of time
<scott-work> astraljava: to be honest, even if we don't *ever* get this into 10.04, just fixing the bug going forward for all future releases would be outstanding :)
<astraljava> scott-work: Oh, I think I got it. Waiting for verification now.
<astraljava> scott-work: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/qjackctl/+bug/607914
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 607914 in qjackctl (Ubuntu) "Backport qjackctl 0.3.6-1 from Maverick" [Undecided,New]
<astraljava> Go have fun! :)
<scott-work> astraljava: lol, i shall!
<astraljava> scott-work: Okay, I'm off to sleep now. When we get three confirmations, I'll talk to jdong about this bug.
<astraljava> scott-work: Oh, amd64 build still pending, but I'll look into it when I'm on the train tomorrow.
 * astraljava is gone now
<scott-work> astraljava: thanks
#ubuntustudio-devel 2010-07-21
<astraljava> ScottL: I'm gonna be pretty busy for the next couple of days, can you post to the mailing lists about this bug and the testing need? Both archs built successfully now.
<ScottL> astraljava, absolutely
<ScottL> hi abogani :)
<quadrispro> hello guys
<abogani> ScottL, Hi! :)
<ScottL> hi quadrispro
<ScottL> hopefully this weekend i will get to updating the seeds to get all of the lv2 applications you have been packaging :)
<quadrispro> ehy ScottL 
<quadrispro> great news :)
<ScottL> quadrispro, thank you very much for all your packaging efforts and the coordination as well
<quadrispro> ScottL, I'm working right now to fix all packages in uninstallable state
<ScottL> oh, hey, quadrispro, was anyone working on guitarix ?
<quadrispro> mmm
<quadrispro> I don't remember now..
<ScottL> no worries, i was just curious, it's something that a few people have asked about before
<quadrispro> ScottL, ok, I've just uploaded jack-tools, all uninstallable packages listed in the last Colin's mail will be available soon
<ScottL> quadrispro, oh, man, that is good news...what was causing it?
<quadrispro> JACK2 transition
<quadrispro> jack has entered in main, so many packages needed to rebuilld
<ScottL> reading the debian multimedia email, i've feared this was not going to be a pleasant transition
<ScottL> as i understand it (which doesn't make this correct), we are using jack1 libraries, but the executable binaries from jack2 ?
<quadrispro> yep
<quadrispro> ScottL, have to leave, see you later!
<ScottL> bye
<ScottL> abogani, how are you faring these days?
<abogani> ScottL, Sorry?
<falktx> hm, from my experience, it's better to have apps compiled with jack1 then jack2
<falktx> running jack1 apps in jack2 is safe, but not the other way
<falktx> jack2 has many new functions
<falktx> jack1 apps may complaining about missing symbols...
<ScottL> abogani, i was wonder how you are doing?
<ScottL> falktx, hmm, that may explain their decision then :)  good to know
<falktx> i had some issues with 32libs too
<falktx> since ia32-libs should need a jack update too
<ScottL> that might be something TheMuso might want to know^^^
<falktx> all the packages in my ppa are compiled against jack2, so if any official ubuntu fails, i should have a fix
<falktx> one that will fail for sure is fmit
<falktx> have to go now, bbl
<abogani> ScottL, Waiting than UKT review -lowlatency and -realtime kernels.
<ScottL> abogani, cool
<ScottL> i wish i knew more about kernels
 * ScottL is rounding the kids up and going to work
#ubuntustudio-devel 2010-07-22
<holstein> the gnome network manager needs to be installed
<holstein> default
<holstein> its too much hasle talking everyone through it
<TheMuso> 1/c
<quadrispro> TheMuso, is jack transition completed? BTW: great job!
<astraljava> ScottL: I posted to the mailing lists about the testing of qjackctl backport, so you don't need to anymore. :)
<astraljava> scott-work: ^^
<scott-work> astraljava: okay, i had planned to last night but ran out of time
<scott-work> astraljava: i'll test your qjackctl tonight then
<scott-work> astraljava: and then begin to bug others to do likewise :)
<astraljava> scott-work: Good to hear. I might be able to upgrade my multimedia desktop to lucid during the weekend, but setting it up will take considerable amount of time, so it won't happen within the next week or so...
<scott-work> astraljava: i did, however, spend about twenty minutes working on the network-admin bug, i got the source, thought i removed the patch and built it in PPA, but after i upgraded it didn't appear to work
<scott-work> astraljava: the gui was still disabled, but i haven't rebooted yet, so i'll see about that tonight as well
<quadrispro> scott-work, PHASEX is coming :)
<scott-work> i REALLY want to get the network-admin bug fixed and effect an SRU
<scott-work> quadrispro: cool :)
<scott-work> astraljava: i see your email in my inbox :)
<astraljava> scott-work: Don't know about network-admin, but NetworkManager is kinda tricky to upgrade during a session, I suspect networking stuff gets that way.
<scott-work> quadrispro: this weekend (really!  i mean it this time) i am going to update the ubuntustudio-seeds.maverick for the stuff you've been packaging 
<quadrispro> yeah :)
<astraljava> That's nice. :) Gotta remember to leave a couple of tens of GBs empty space for dev releases.
<scott-work> then later i'll also need to update the menu so that it all goes into the right places
<scott-work> of course if either of you, quadrispro or astraljava, would like to help update the branches for either the seeds or menu that would be great also, and that way i can check it and feel good about dual layers of quality
<scott-work> if not, that is okay, i'll take care of it :)
<quadrispro> scott-work, I'm very sorry, but at the moment I don't have the time :(
<scott-work> 'sokay quadrispro, you have already done more than i could have expected :)
<scott-work> and for thank i am extremely grateful :)
<quadrispro> scott-work, ok ok, so I expect a beer in return :D
<quadrispro> scott-work, I hope to see you at the next UDS!
<astraljava> Does US still get sponsored spots for UDSs?
<scott-work> quadrispro: if i manage to get to a UDS then i will certainly buy you several beers!
<astraljava> scott-work: Yeah I can help with the seeds/menu thingie.
<quadrispro> :D
<quadrispro> bye guys, see you later!
<astraljava> Later.
<ckontros> Hi all
#ubuntustudio-devel 2010-07-23
<ScottL> hi ckontros 
<ckontros> ScottL: I'ma total space-case. Friday, I totally thought of us talkin'. Got into doin' stuff w/the fam and it was over. Didn't think of it again 'till Sunday night. :P
<ckontros> I'm free now though. I'm actually hackin' on some art. ;)
<ScottL> oh cool, you gonna have something done for maverick?
<ScottL> oh, and it's cool about the weekend, family should come first anyways :)
<ckontros> Right now, I'm just hackin'. Don't know where it will lead. Though, an art lead would be better to set a direction. ;)
<ckontros> I can talk now if you want.
<ScottL> sure, let me get my headset
<ckontros> ScottL: I'm "addictedtometal"
<ScottL> i'll be just a minute, family stuff and setting up upstairs
<ckontros> np. Take your time.
<scott-upstairs> okay, calling you
<scott-upstairs> http://lmms.sourceforge.net/screenshots.php
<ckontros> Gone.
<falktx> hi guys
<falktx> can someone test one thing?
<falktx> i believe that "vanilla" lv2rack/zynjacku will crash when lv2fil plugin is installed
<falktx> or maybe it's the eq-10q plugin
<falktx> got it, it's the eq-10q that crashes lv2rack
<falktx> patch to fix it here - http://repo.or.cz/w/zynjacku.git/commitdiff/ed42d022a71c3d07fbfd4671cf384c3e08de587e
<falktx> what about ffmpeg?
<falktx> there is some discussion going on the kubuntu mailing list about libavcodec
<falktx> they said libavcodec (a lib from ffmpeg) cannot be included on the official ubuntu cds
<falktx> afaik, ubuntustudio includes the full ffmpeg pack
<falktx> so I guess canonical makes an exception for the studio guys..?
<ScottL> falktx, did you say that you had a patch for gnome-network-admin to remove the 10_disable_interfaces.patch ?
<falktx> ScottL: no
<falktx> i tried to build without the patch
<ScottL> as far as the ffmpeg situation, i have no clue :/
<falktx> doesn't work
<ScottL> falktx, yeah, me too, but it worked with the version in maverick!
<falktx> oh, ok
<falktx> that's fine I guess
<ScottL> i was working on a lucid install but forgot i was using the sources for maverick and installed source (2.30.2)
<ScottL> removed the patch from the patch list and it built successfully
<ScottL> then i realized that i had the wrong version for lucid for a SRU and tried rebuilding and ran into the same problem that you probably did
<ScottL> :(
<ScottL> i'll probably talk to The.Muso later about how to get the patch removed in maverick so it's fixed going forward but...
<ScottL> i'll probably talk to someone on #ubuntu-motu about lucid (but expect that we may have to walk away from fixing this version perhaps)
<falktx> about the ffmpeg thing...
<falktx> ScottL: ubuntustudio is officially supported by canonical, right?
<ScottL> falktx, yes it is to the best of my understanding
<falktx> hm, that would be an issue
<falktx> i don't know why they haven't discussed this before
<falktx> the kubuntu guys are kinda mad at it
<falktx> they can't include a decent video player
<ScottL> hmmm, whatever ffmpeg we include in ubuntu studio comes straight from the main (or universe) archives, therefore it should be the same version available to everyone
<ScottL> at least i believe it to be so
<falktx> ubuntu doesn't include any ffmpeg libs i believe
<falktx> libavcodec, libavformat, etc
<falktx> not ubuntu or kubuntu or edubuntu, xubuntu, etc
<ScottL> but you say that we include libavcodec in studio?
<falktx> yes
<falktx> many apps depend on it
<falktx> let me check...
<ScottL> i found this on the list from lucid:  libavcodec52_0.5.1-1ubuntu1_i386.deb
<falktx> ffmpeg, audacious, qdvdauthor, spek, xjadeo, openmovieeditor, kino, ffmpeg2theora, blender, audacity
<falktx> those are present on ubuntustudio, i think
<ScottL> falktx, this launchpad page shows libavcodec available in lucid: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ffmpeg
<ScottL> click the gray triangle next to the lucid release and scroll down
<falktx> ScottL: it is available on lucid, on main too
<falktx> the thing is:
<falktx> ffmpeg and it's libs cannot be included on the CDs
<falktx> legal issues
<ScottL> oh, just not on the CD!  i understand now, like mp3 coded
<falktx> yep
<falktx> i'm looking for the discussion page
<ScottL> but we (ubuntu studio) include it?  hmmmm, that might not be good
<falktx> that's what i'm thinking
<falktx> maybe they didn't noticed?
<ScottL> perhaps...and perhaps its not worth watching when we serve such a niche audience (the numbers aren't appreciable perhaps)
#ubuntustudio-devel 2010-07-24
<ScottL> TheMuso, would you have a few minutes to discuss the options to fix the network-admin bug?  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-system-tools/+bug/570828
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 570828 in gnome-system-tools (Ubuntu) "gnome-network-admin on UbuntuStudio doesnt allow to configure either wired networks or wireless" [High,Triaged]
<ScottL> i was hoping to resolve both an SRU for lucid and also for future releases (including maverick)
<ScottL> rlameiro, will you be able to test the latest ISO for amd64?
<ScottL> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/test/4242
<ScottL> troy_s, i'll be posting on my blog this weekend, you'll probably like this one
<troy_s> Good.
<troy_s> ScottL: You should post more.
<rlameiro> ScottL: I will seek to it, maybe tomorrow
<rlameiro> ScottL: when is the test due?
<ScottL> rlameiro, the end of july i believe!
<rlameiro> ok
<ScottL> rlameiro, yes, alpha 3 is due august 3rd
<rlameiro> I will try to do it ASAP
<ScottL> thank you
<rlameiro> no need to thank
<rlameiro> :D
#ubuntustudio-devel 2010-07-25
<ScottL> can anyone help test this bug so we can get it backported?  https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/qjackctl/+bug/607914
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 607914 in qjackctl (Ubuntu) "Backport qjackctl 0.3.6-1 from Maverick" [Undecided,New]
<ScottL> s/bug/fix
<ScottL> good instructions included in the bug report for testing
<crimsun_> ScottL: nice test case
<crimsun_> I'm a bit concerned that this is going into lucid-backports instead of lucid-proposed, though
<crimsun_> are the changes from 0.3.4 -> 0.3.6 _that_ invasive that the fixes can't be cherry-picked onto our 0.3.4 package?
<ScottL> crimsun_, thanks, i would rather this go into -proposed as well but i was told i needed a patch and since this was handled upstream by a new release i wasn't sure a patch even existed
<ScottL> if you could point me in the right direction i would love to dig further into it though :)
<crimsun_> yeah, let me see if I can isolate a smaller patch
<crimsun_> are you going to be around (not 100% attention necessary, of course) for an hour?
<ScottL> yes i will, i'll be back and forth in front of the computer
<crimsun_> sounds good
<ScottL> today, i'm also hoping to submit a patch for the gnome-network-admin bug (disabled interface) in maverick, so hopefully this will resolve the bug going forward
<ScottL> i had hoped to get a patch for lucid as well, but alas, i cannot get the package to build when removing 10_disable_interfaces.patch
<crimsun_> do you have a build log with the FTBFS (with the patch unapplied)?
<ScottL> crimsun_, https://launchpad.net/~slavender/+archive/lucid/+build/1888652/+files/buildlog_ubuntu-lucid-i386.gnome-system-tools_2.30.0-0ubuntu3~ppa4_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<crimsun_> thanks, will look later
<ScottL> no,thank you :)
<crimsun_> looks pretty straightforward:
<crimsun_> --- src/qjackctlJackConnect.cpp (revision 541)
<crimsun_> +++ src/qjackctlJackConnect.cpp (revision 542)
<crimsun_> @@ -228,7 +228,7 @@
<crimsun_>                                 QString sPortName   = sClientPort.right(sClientPort.length() - iColon - 1);
<crimsun_>                                 pClient = static_cast<qjackctlJackClient *> (findClient(sClientName));
<crimsun_>                                 if (pClient)
<crimsun_> -                                       pPort = pClient->findJackPort(pJackPort);
<crimsun_> +                                       pPort = static_cast<qjackctlJackPort *> (pClient->findPort(sPortName));
<crimsun_>                                 if (pClient == 0) {
<crimsun_>                                         pClient = new qjackctlJackClient(this, sClientName);
<crimsun_>                                         iDirtyCount++;
<crimsun_> I think that's a nice SRU candidate :-)
<crimsun_> fixed silly lintian error while I'm at it, too
<crimsun_> ScottL: please try http://kernel.ubuntu.com/~dtchen/qjackctl_0.3.4-0ubuntu4.1.debdiff against pristine lucid
<ScottL> crimsun_, i'll do that this evening when family things settle down a bit
<ScottL> but i can start a clean lucid install now though :)
<ScottL> crimsum, how did you fin that?  was it in the qjackctl cvs?
<ScottL> did you just look for a description on one of the revisions with port renaming?
<crimsun_> ScottL: I searched the source
<astraljava> Ahh... superb, crimsun_! Much better than a backport.
<astraljava> Thanks!
 * astraljava goes to bed
#ubuntustudio-devel 2011-07-18
<scott-work> abogani: just to let you know, i made an attempt at packaging the -lowlatency kernel and persia is reviewing it
<abogani> scott-work: good
<scott-work> abogani: one thing i wanted to clarify with you, i took your previous comments as that you did not want to maintain this kernel and therefore would not have your name in the changelog or other locations?  is this your desire?  do i need to do something different?
<abogani> scott-work: I'll maintain it until someone else comes up.
<scott-work> abogani: i was expecting to maintain it per our previous conversations
<scott-work> abogani: my larger concern was that i felt you had done the bulk of the work and i was removing your name from it which would have not given you the credit you deserved
<scott-work> abogani: and therefore i wanted to make sure that this was congruent with your wishes
<scott-work> abogani: i will happily include your name, either alongside mine or replacing it, if you wish
<abogani> scott-work: You are the maintainer it is your choice.
<scott-work> abogani: i don't mind either way, my understanding was that you valued avoiding the complaints, however i do not wish to deny you credit for your work (and almost more importantly i do not wish to take credit for others work)
<scott-work> abogani: with your leave i will include your name as well
<abogani> scott-work: ok
<scott-work> huh, autotune manual pitch correction with a package called 'praat' that is already in the repository: http://www.debuntu.org/how-autotune-pitch-correction-effect-with-praat
<scott-work> and i just learned about Fons Adriaensen's Zita-at1 autotune
<scott-work> which has been in the repos since natty
<falktx> hey there
#ubuntustudio-devel 2011-07-19
<saidinesh5> falktx: ...... carla doesnt show "Show GUI" for the ladspa plugins......
<saidinesh5> but when run from Klaudia, they have a GUI.....
<saidinesh5> any ideas?
<falktx> saidinesh5: hehe, "Show GUI" are for custom plugin GUIS
<falktx> saidinesh5: use "Edit", and the internal 'gui' is there
<scott-work> falktx: do you have time to link to that live image script now?
<falktx> scott-work: ah, yes
<falktx> give me 5 mins
<saidinesh5> Ah yes...... i ve seen
<saidinesh5> the preferences
<scott-work> falktx: no problems, i have a machine i'm working on that can be dedicated to testing this so i'm pretty excited about it
<falktx> scott-work: first step is this:
<falktx> git clone git://kxstudio.git.sf.net/gitroot/kxstudio/kxstudio
<falktx> scott-work: then check scripts/kxstudio-create-iso 
<falktx> I'm checking it right now too
<scott-work> falktx:  i'm at work (you probably sussed that out) but i plan on installing the latest ubuntu studio daily image and then testing the script tonight
<falktx> ok, let me know how it works
<falktx> wow, the script is working on arch as well... ;)
<saidinesh5> also falktx, any ideas on why the jack keyboard doesnt work for me?? it says gst_debug_add_log_function: assertion `func != NULL` failed
<saidinesh5> and thats it
<saidinesh5> there ends the whole thing
<saidinesh5> cant even quit it
<saidinesh5> without killing it
<falktx> probably needs rebuild
<saidinesh5> hmm....
<saidinesh5> so any other virtual keyboards that work??
<falktx> vmpk
<falktx> vkeybd as well
<falktx> saidinesh5: note that carla is unfinished software...
<saidinesh5> both of them dont work for me falktx....
<saidinesh5> one doesnt show up in claudia and the other just hangs
<falktx> you need a2jmidid to bridge alsa and jack midi
<saidinesh5> Ahh i see
<saidinesh5> oh it froze my whole pc now
<saidinesh5> rebooted into my "work time" installation now :P
<saidinesh5> had lots of fun in kxstudio today :) messed around with all the dssi plugins with fancy GUIs and stuff :)
<falktx> cool
<falktx> not cool when it freezes though
<saidinesh5> :D
<falktx> there's seems to be a problem installing ubuntustudio (latest of latest oneiric)
<falktx> gnome-netstat-applet
<falktx> exact error:
<falktx>  ubuntustudio-desktop : Depends: gnome-netstatus-applet but it is not going to be installed
<falktx> hm, but it seems 'gnome-netstatus-applet' is installable
<falktx> some package in us-desktop must have a conflict with it
<falktx> it seems the xfce4 transition is not yet in place...?
 * falktx is building an ISO
<falktx> beh, gdm doesn't start
<ScottL> trying gnome3 on my laptop now, not sure i'm digging it either yet
<ScottL> but it seems to be more functional than unity currently
<dtchen> I work around the issue by using unity-2d with a terminal emulator :-)
#ubuntustudio-devel 2011-07-20
<astraljava> Second day in a row (that I've checked) that we didn't get images. What gives?
<astraljava> Hmm... there's no alternate image for Xubuntu either. Apparently the installer is b0rked, or something.
<scott-work> astraljava: interesting, i downloaded an image two days ago :/
<scott-work> now the daily page is showning that i dont' have permission to view that page: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntustudio/daily/current/
<scott-work> astraljava: would you mind checking this out on #ubuntu-release ?
<astraljava> scott-work: If you go to the current day directory, you are shown a page with (dead) links, and a list of files, which contains no actual images.
<astraljava> scott-work: Did ask, let's see whether I get a response anytime soon.
<astraljava> scott-work: cjwatson informed there's a nasty cd build failure, and they're expecting it to go away as soon as they get newer hardware for that.
<scott-work> ooooh, that's interesting...and a bit unfortunate!
<scott-work> however, i believe i have an image from two days ago that i can still test
<astraljava> Sure. But it's likely to die at the same spot, as the desktop seed hasn't been uploaded.
<astraljava> I'm unlikely to test for a few days now, until next Monday or so.
<astraljava> Off to a finnish "baseball" game, see ya later. :)
<charlie-tca> todays images are posted now. The respin worked
<scott-work> ooh, good :)  i'll download it this afternoon as soon as i get home and then install it
#ubuntustudio-devel 2011-07-21
<falktx> oh, scott-work, ScottL
<falktx> I tried the iso-script some days ago
<scott-work> yeah?
<falktx> it seems that oneiric has lots of packages issues right now
<scott-work> i'm having trouble installing ubuntu studio currently
<falktx> not only US, but ubuntu generic packages are broken too
<scott-work> i'm trying it on a new (ish) computer though
<falktx> the upstart, intramfs, gnome3 and all those changes produce a lot of errors
<scott-work> so i'm going to backup and try it out on natty to both validate isntalling ubuntu studio on this machine and to test the iso script
<falktx> I was able to create an ISO, but gdm does not start
<scott-work> ah
<falktx> scott-work: you should be ok for a natty<->lucid ISO
<falktx> I'll give this script more attention next week, so maybe you want to wait a bit
<scott-work> right :)  i have a natty dvd already so i'll test it out this evening (hopefully)
<falktx> (I found some oneiric specific fixes that I want to add)
<scott-work> oh, you sure i should wait?
<falktx> scott-work: you can try just to see how far you can get, but 30% chances it will fail
<scott-work> even for natty or lucid?
<falktx> scott-work: yes
<falktx> still, 70% sucess rate
<scott-work> i still need to install natty to validate installation on this machine, so i don't hink it's much to go further and test the script
<falktx> well, please do test, and let me know what you think
<scott-work> it's a gateway that i was given and had to replace the power supply and i'm unfamiliar with gateway machines :/
<falktx> the script checks for dependencies at startup, so there's no problem with missing packages
<scott-work> and although i was able to install fedora 15: design suite, it balked at installing the latest ubuntu studio daily image
<falktx> I just forgot to write that, before quiting the 'custom' process, 'custom_end' should be run outside
<scott-work> of course it probably is the daily image, given how many problems have been occuring with it
<falktx> scott-work: please take a note ^
<scott-work> falktx: will it be extremely evident when i need to type this?
<falktx> scott-work: yes, after you install all the packages in the chroot, just before quiting
<falktx> scott-work: make sure you pay attention to all the messages that get printed
<scott-work> falktx: how much typing will i be required to do?
<falktx> not much
<scott-work> i am quite ignorant of the steps required
<falktx> I can give you the basic commands
<falktx> ok, write this down
<falktx> kxstudio-create-iso natty i386
<falktx> (or other version or arch)
<falktx> (this will install the basic chroot)
<scott-work> i will copy/paste text, plus screenshot and send it all to myself in an email, quickest way for me
<falktx> good
<falktx> ok, 2 command:
<falktx> kxstudio-create-iso custom
<falktx> (this will put you in the chroot, save the messages that get printed, and install whatever you need)
<falktx> (you may need to enable universe and multiverse repos here)
<falktx> (after you installed everything, run the printed messages about ubiquity [live installer], if you want such thing. if not, ignore this line)
<falktx> (after *all* packages are installed, even ubiquity, run:)
<falktx> kxstudio-create-iso custom_end # outside, without leaving the chroot
<falktx> (this will tell you how to properly clean&exit the chroot, so the live-cd works)
<falktx> now, step 3:
<falktx> kxstudio-create-iso squash
<falktx> oops
<falktx> kxstudio-create-iso mksquash
<falktx> (this will create the main squash.fs file, which contains the entire filesystem)
<falktx> step 4:
<falktx> kxstudio-create-iso mkboot
<falktx> (this will create the boot stuff for the ISO, fails on oneiric here due to kernel 3.0)
<falktx> step 5:
<falktx> kxstudio-create-iso mkart i386 UbuntuStudio
<falktx> (it will ask you to copy a file here, which is in the same dir as the script file)
<falktx> (re-run it after copying the file)
<falktx> (after running this, some new messages get printed telling you to edit some files. do it as needed)
<falktx> step 6:
<falktx> kxstudio-create-iso md5sum
<falktx> (obvious)
<falktx> step 7:
<falktx> kxstudio-create-iso iso UbuntuStudio_LiveTest1Name
<falktx> scott-work: done, after all this you got a nice ISO, ready to test
<scott-work> cool :)
<falktx> I used this process to create my KXStudio ISOs for lucid
<falktx> hopefully it works in natty as well
<scott-work> email sent to myself documenting this :)
<scott-work> paultag: within six months i want to write an application with python and glade, would you mind being a resource to help with particulars?
<paultag> scott-work: sure, no problem. I'm caught up with work, but my inbox is always open :)
<scott-work> i'm still feeling my way through python, reading a book and looking at code, i don't expect to require much help with that (at least i hope ;) )
<scott-work> mainly i'm worried about using python-glade (or whatever the package is called) andprobably python-apt because i've had trouble finding information about them
<paultag> scott-work: mmm
<paultag> scott-work: it can be finikey but it's mostly sane
<scott-work> paultag: part of the reason for the long time line is also to really develop explicit goals for this application, i really want clearly defined goals and UI for it before i start programming, i believe this will make the entire process more efficient and less frustrating
<paultag> scott-work: :)
<astraljava> I don't know if you have that saying in English, but here in finnish it goes like "Well planned is half done", but an agile workshop here twisted it into a form of "Well planned hasn't even begun to be implemented" (sorry, hard to translate.) Thought it was funny, and quite fitting. :)
#ubuntustudio-devel 2011-07-22
<scott-work> astraljava: ping
<holstein> scott-work: maybe we can hang on sunday?
<holstein> im free in the afternoon... see if you can get connected to mumble and whatever else we need
<scott-work> holstein: sure, i think i can do that, the family is doing some stuff on friday and saturday, but i should be free on sunday
<scott-work> holstein: i'm presuming you are expecting just to test things and not really record proper?
<scott-work> oh, and holstein, you rock too!
<astraljava> scott-work: pong
<astraljava> scott-work: Sorry, moving this weekend. Catch ya on your Sunday evening?
<astraljava> scott-work: Closing the desktop now. :)
<scott-work> astraljava: sure, sure...sorry you ahve to waste your weekend moving 
<scott-work> maybe it's a good thing though, i wouldn't mind moving if i was getting a more suave place ;)
<holstein> scott-work: hehe... you rock sir!
<holstein> yeah, just a mumble and technology test
<holstein> a proof of concept day
<holstein> thats really the hard work
<scott-work> i'm going to mail a computer to someone with ubuntu studio on it :)
<holstein> getting connected, and making it happen
<holstein> scott-work: nice
<charlie-tca> ubuntustudio images for today spinning now
<scott-work> i wonder if they will work this time?  not just the spinning and having viable images, i mean that i wonder if these will actually install :(
<scott-work> thanks for keeping us updated charlie-tca :)
<charlie-tca> Got to hope, I saw they fixed the bug from alpha1 or 2 about the seeds
<charlie-tca> Of course, got to have an image to see if it works, too.
<charlie-tca> Got a studio 64 image for today, at least
<charlie-tca> okay, we got both images for today. I haven't had time to see if they work, though.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2011-07-23
<macinnisrr> ScottL: what's up? How's the Oneiric development going?
<ScottL> hi macinnisrr, how are you doing, long time no see
<ScottL> oneiric is going wacky, having trouble getting confirmation about xfce packages, then the buildd daemon screwed up apparently
<ScottL> and images were eithe rnot being built or they would not install for a while :/
<macinnisrr> ScottL: true. Oh, that sucks. Last time we talked you had said the former project lead was working on some themes. Is that still the case, and if so, is there somewhere I can check them out?
<ScottL> oh sheesh, i'm not sure actually, there's been other things going on and i've done a bit of a brain dump about that stuff, but i can found out later this weekend
<ScottL> i'm about to go out with the family, we have some other family in town that we haven't seen in a while
<ScottL> just leave messages here or email me and i'll catch back up with you
<macinnisrr> ScottL: ok. good enough. If you think about it send me an e-mail. I'm barely ever on IRC anymore.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2012-07-16
<ailo> May I say shit?
<ailo> Still not available for US development :(
<astraljava> ailo: What seems to be the problem?
<ailo> astraljava: I have something else I need to finish first
<ailo> And I simply need to finish it. Giving it max another week.
<astraljava> ailo: Ahh... I thought there was a technical issue. :)
<len-dt> ailo, no worries. 
<ailo> len-dt: Nice work with the testing
<ailo> Would just need to duplicate it on more machines to get better data
#ubuntustudio-devel 2012-07-17
<len-dt> ailo, Just did an a/b with high precision timers accessible or not. 
<len-dt> The apps do need to have access. I recorded the synth demo on qtracktor and then played it back to the synth
<len-dt> without the hpt, note timing was all over the place.
<len-dt> with hpt it was much better.
<len-dt> One of the things the script did not check is hpet/max-user-freq and rtc0/max_user_freq. stock is 64
<len-dt> rosegarden suggests 3072
<len-dt> this may tighten the timing even more. Unless RG is the only app that tries to go that high.
<len-dt> micahg, did our packages get released?
<micahg> len-dt: sorry, didn't get to it this morning
<micahg> still on my list though
<len-dt> Ok I won't test it then :-)
<len-dt> ailo, I have been thinking about the testing we have (ok I have) done with the high rez timers.
<len-dt> While it is obvious just listening that there is a difference, The mention of maxfrequency makes me think we need something more precise.
<len-dt> The usermaxfreq is 64 right now but 3k or so is suggested by at least some people at rosegarden.
<len-dt> They do say to try 1024 and 2048 though to see what works best.
<len-dt> I am thinking I will not be able to hear the difference very well just with my ears.
<len-dt> So, I am thinking to make a sequence on hydrogen that is very specific with it's timings... no swing.
<len-dt> Run it out through the midi port and back in to record on qtracktor. Then playback qtracktor through the midiports and rerecord on tractor again. Then visually look at timing with different settings for max freq.
<len-dt> ailo, does this sound like a valid way of testing?
<ailo> len-dt: In my experience the timing issue is already significantly visible when you record only once
<ailo> len-dt: The timer thing must be one of those things we most probably should fix for 12.10
<ailo> And perhaps call that a bug for 12.04 as well
<len-dt> ailo, yes it is, but when the HPT gives access to apps it gets better.
<len-dt> I am thinking about maxuserfreq testing.
<ailo> I'm still occupied with this other thing, but in one week I would like to look through everything that you have done, and see what I can do on top of that
<ailo> And start putting stuff up on the wiki, etc
<ailo> Also, I want to create the -controls
<len-dt> Good
<len-dt> The only reason for the second record step was so I could see where the notes line up with the beats.
<ailo> len-dt: You should be able to compare each instance of the beat
<ailo> Cut one out, and paste it under another
<ailo> Then compare the two
<len-dt> ailo, fixed delay is ok, variable is not
<ailo> For me, there were major differences between each bar
<len-dt> a stock install has problems yes. :-)  I could here it easily too.
<len-dt> s/here/hear
<len-dt> With access to HTP I can't put my finger on it, but sometimes when a lot was happening it seemed a bit "muffled" even with HPT access.
<len-dt> I am thinking increasing the max freq might help that.
<ailo> I had no problems with jack midi, using my firewire HW
<len-dt> Stock seems to be 1/60 sec.
<ailo> Oh
<len-dt> ailo, with 12.04?
<ailo> No, but I don't think it matters which OS
<ailo> Same settings
<ailo> jack midi is what you expect from midi
<len-dt> hmm
<ailo> This is what I told you about 3 months ago, or when it was, when we were discussing these things
<ailo> Firewire devices use jack midi for the hardware
<ailo> They don't use alsa midi at all
<len-dt> Yes, I remember. It is just that there seems to be no trouble midi in to midi out going through alsa, just when an app is recording/playing.
<ailo> When else would you use midi out to a HW device?
<ailo> Apart from controlling levels
<len-dt> kb to synth either internal or extrnal
<len-dt> or through a midi filter.
<ailo> The issue was always on playback
<len-dt> If the problem was with the ports it should show up then but doesn't
<ailo> I never investigated the other way around. To do that, you either need a good ear, or an external sequencers
<ailo> sequencer*
<ailo> Perhaps using jack midi out, and record with alsa midi
<ailo> I could do that in 1-2 weeks time
<len-dt> That was how I tested at first. It was when I realized the problem was with internal SW that I started using that,
<ailo> len-dt: You didn't use jack midi out, and record with alsa midi
<ailo> len-dt: I'm saying, this would be a way to test recording midi
<len-dt> I don't have jackmidi ports.
<ailo> I do, but not at home at the moment
<len-dt> mine are all alsa.
<ailo> But I will try this in 1-2 weeks
<ailo> Many people won't hear that the recording is off, cause they expect themselves to not make timing errors
<ailo> I mean, the other way around :)
<ailo> They expect to make timing errors, human timing errors
<ailo> So, when they get it, it sounds normal
<ailo> With an external sequencer, you could do the same thing as I propose
<ailo> hmm, or maybe not
<len-dt> That is why I want to start with a quantized track.
<len-dt> ailo, alsa midi just forwards what the port does, is that correct?
<ailo> len-dt: In my experience, the problem only occurs once the midi is sent through a port
<len-dt> does Jack add some timing info as well?
<ailo> timing info? I only used my ears
<ailo> And looked at the wave files
<ailo> Jack midi was on the spot
<len-dt> The old roland 401 used to add the amount of time since the last event
<ailo> I was doing a recording, which is why I needed something that worked. alsa midi did not, so luckily I had a FW devices
<len-dt> So even if the SW took a while to get to it, it was aware of when it happened.
<len-dt> I am wondering if jack does something similar
<ailo> No idea
<ailo> Ok, gotta go. Need to get this ship sailing
<len-dt> I guess it doesn't matter, there are lots of USB midi ports out there gotta make em work.
<len-dt> Bye now.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2012-07-18
<len-dt> ailo, if you have time, take a quick look at my midi timing message to the list.
<len-dt> I don't seem to be getting the problems I expected.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2012-07-19
<ailo> len-dt: There's a discussion on puredata user list about midi performance on Linux too
<ailo> I'll have a look next week
<ailo> Feeling a bit more optimistic about being done with the project I'm working on at the moment
<ailo> By then, I mean
<micahg> astraljava: studio by default doesn't have both kernels, right?
<astraljava> micahg: No, it doesn't.
<micahg> yeah, so probably not worth worrying about, although better restart logic would probably be nice if there's an easy way to determine if the upgrading kernel is the same flavor as teh the running kernel on a base system
<astraljava> I don't see that being too hard to do --> uname -r
<micahg> yeah
#ubuntustudio-devel 2013-07-15
<Mish> zequence: I changed the background for the audio icon to blue. They are here --  https://www.wuala.com/Mishrito/Icons/?key=CRBaTkk2DEln
<Mish> The problem that I feel with this is that the old icons did not have simple one path shapes and covered too much of the icon real estate to convey the colour, which is actually the main focus
<Mish> That is why in the icons I showed you last time, I tried to bring into focus the coloured background and object inside it was just nominally present, to give a slight hint of what it was for
<zequence> I thought all of the icons were great, maybe just the one for publishing could be confused with graphics, and also, the photography icon - the shutters are maybe too small. You can't see clearly what it is, when the icon is small. So, I'd make the shutters extra large, so they are the main thing visually
<zequence> Also, I find that the quality in the shapes could be improved upon. Something weird happens when zooming out of the icon. It starts to look hand drawn, even when it clearly isn't
<zequence> I'd use white for the front, and color for the background
<zequence> Depending on the background, sometimes the front could be black instead
<zequence> Mish: ^
<zequence> Going cycling, so will be gone for a couple of hours
<Mish> Yes I've fixed the photography, but haven't put it in the branch. WIll do that. And thickening the groove on the nib of the pen should fix Publishing too. 
<Mish> Zooming out of the icon? 
<Mish> But what I was trying to say is, the old icons weren't really made with colours in mind.  So icons that should identifiable with a specific colour need to have objects which don't impose themselves so much
<Mish> Publishing and Graphics are the only ones leaving out some space for the background
<Mish> Also maintaining the value relationship between foreground and background is important for a unified look
#ubuntustudio-devel 2013-07-16
<OvenWerks> Smartovens2013
<OvenWerks> 472472
<TheDrums> Howdy, just a reminder that the https://ubuntustudio.org "Issued certificate has expired.", may want to contact IS/Elmo.
<zequence> TheDrums: Thanks. Will take care of that directly
<zequence> also, ubuntustudio.com is not redirecting to ubuntustudio.org, instead has its own apache server
<TheDrums> (Elmo was on just a couple minutes ago too.)  It was first pointed out in #ubuntustudio, not by me.
<zequence> I created rt tickets for both just now
#ubuntustudio-devel 2013-07-17
<holstein> !hammertime
<ubottu> âââ âââ âââ
<zequence> holstein: lol
<zequence> TheDrums: The two rt tickets were done already
#ubuntustudio-devel 2013-07-18
<Mish> New update  with the icons ---  https://www.wuala.com/Mishrito/Icons/?key=CRBaTkk2DEln
<zequence> Mish: Not bad. The colors look nice
<zequence> I had to think for a moment what the arrow was, until I realized it was a flash
<zequence> So, it didn't hit me like lightning
<zequence> And thought he pen is well made, for some reason I had difficulty seeing it as such
<Mish> you mean seeing it in the 16x16 version right?
<Mish> or do you mean recognizing it (cause that was supposed to be a pencil :))
<zequence> The brush for graphics is also a little bit hard to make out
<zequence> Ah, yes. Pencil, sorry
<Mish> I tried to choose shapes and objects that were non-invasive
<zequence> If the brush had some hairs or something, a bit split, maybe it would be clearer?
<Mish> and bring the main focus on the cololurs
<Mish> but the shapes neep to be recognizable too
<zequence> I think with the text, the icons would work fine
<Mish> main trouble I had was with the pencil
<Mish> I'm preparing a screenshot with them in the menus
<zequence> But, if one wants to be pedantic, things could always be improved :)
<Mish> also tried to keep similar colours separate
<Mish> yes definitely, I'd like some feedback
<Mish> screenshot -- https://www.wuala.com/Mishrito/Icons/?key=CRBaTkk2DEln
<Mish> screenshot in a dark theme  --- https://www.wuala.com/Mishrito/Icons/?key=CRBaTkk2DEln
<zequence> Mish: I still suspect white foreground would look better. Did you try that?
<zequence> Otherwise, the bg colors look nice on both
<Mish> ok I'll do lighter foregrounds as well
<GNUdru> what's the thinking on Mir/XMir for Ubuntu Studio?
<zequence> GNUdru: We don't have our own DE, so it's not really up to us
<GNUdru> do you get it from Xubuntu?
<zequence> GNUdru: Yeah, basically. The XFCE desktop we have is originally imported from Xubuntu
<zequence> and we still follow their work somewhat
<zequence> Currently we are working at becoming DE agnostics, which would further remove us from that 
<GNUdru> zequence: according to http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2013/07/11/%23xubuntu-devel.html it looks very iffy
<zequence> GNUdru: May I ask the reason to your inquiry?
<GNUdru> interesting, how is DE agnostisticism accomplished?  
<GNUdru> trying to plan ahead for what distro to focus on and recommend to other digital artists.  generally i like Xubuntu quite a bit
<GNUdru> i've been enjoying Ubuntu Studio 12.04.1 . i took a glance at Ubuntu Studio 10.04.x some time back and was intrigued and then came back to it.  its pretty cool IMO
<zequence> GNUdru: We are looking at how we can support more than one DE. And it may happen that we end up having no DE setup of our own, aside from artwork, and a few other things
<GNUdru> that might be good zequence if it allowed U-S to focus on its strong points and let the upstreams do their thing.  less duplication of effort
#ubuntustudio-devel 2013-07-19
<zequence> That's really the situation already, all though technically, we have our own DE setup
<GNUdru> sounds good
<zequence> I'm going to take the liberty of changing all our blueprints these coming days. I'll base the entirely on packages and projects, no fuzzy stuff
<zequence> packages are inside the Ubuntu project, while non package projects are in the Ubuntu Studio project
<zequence> well, not sure about the last one yet
<zequence> I'm cleaning up the organization of the projects too that we have. Don't think we need ubuntustudio-resources. Those sources go into other projects, like for the website, artwork, etc
<holstein> !broadcom
<ubottu> Help with Broadcom bcm43xx can be found at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WifiDocs/Driver/bcm43xx
#ubuntustudio-devel 2013-07-20
<Mish> zequence: icons with light foreground --- https://www.wuala.com/Mishrito/Icons/?key=CRBaTkk2DEln
<OvenWerks> Mish: I like the dark better. To me, the light ones look washed out. I also think the dark ones are easier to see... but that may just be my 53year old eyas :P
<Mish> I thought so as well. I could improve the contrast by darkening the background, but then the colours wouldn't look as prominent.
<Mish> Or may be I should try that as well
<OvenWerks> Mish: I think the colours are right.
<OvenWerks> they show well on both dark and light themes
<Mish> that's what I was aiming for
<OvenWerks> My personal thought is to use these for the menu (in hicolor) and use anything lighter or darker In light and dark ubuntustudio-icon-themes
<OvenWerks> Though the sense I get is "no themes"
<Mish> so non-standard names are being used right?
<Mish> and by lighter or darker you mean the old means
<OvenWerks> I was just thinking of that
<Mish> *ones
<OvenWerks> Right now the names are all applications-*, I think just change them to ubuntustudio-*. 
<OvenWerks> I think hicolor/*x*/categories/ is still the right place though.
<OvenWerks> Right place in the -menu package that is...
<OvenWerks> in the -icon-theme package, they are already in the right place.
<Mish> Also I think we should have just one scalable folder
<Mish> making changes would be much easier then
<Mish> and the icon cache is pretty effective, everything loads instantly on my machine
<Mish> but since ubuntustudio will give options for different DEs I don't how well that'd work out
<Mish> all DEs probably support SVG properly already
<OvenWerks> I think LXDE uses the xfce panel so that would be true.
<OvenWerks> We are only worrying about XDG style menu systems and I think all of those do ok. 
<Mish> my Knoppix USB show's the panel named as LXPanel
<Mish> but yeah LXDE follows freedesktop standards
<OvenWerks> So where did you want to put the icons? Are you going to branch the -menu package?
<Mish> Yes I think
<OvenWerks> Ok.
<Mish> I'll beback after dinner
<OvenWerks> no prob. I'll do breakfast...
<Mish> OvenWerks: I'm back. Can I get a link to the package?
<holstein> !skypc
<holstein> !skype
<ubottu> To install Skype on Ubuntu, see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Skype - To record on Skype, check: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SkypeRecordingHowto - Please use open protocols instead if you can, see !Ekiga
#ubuntustudio-devel 2013-07-21
<OvenWerks> Mish: sorry I missed you last night.
<Mish> No it's nothing
<OvenWerks> the page with all our packages is: https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntustudio-dev
<Mish> alright thanks :)
<OvenWerks> micahg: our menu package can wait a bit as we are reworking the icons.
<OvenWerks> zequence: where are things going with a kernel for saucy? I still show 3.8.0-19 though I think raring is -26 ?
<micahg> OvenWerks: oh, hrm, did I not upload that>
<OvenWerks> The branch does not show it.
<OvenWerks> Same for -settings
<OvenWerks> micahg: ^^
<micahg> sorry
<micahg> so, just settings for now?
<OvenWerks> apt-cache still shows .15 as latest too
<OvenWerks> Ya.
<OvenWerks> we have some nice shinny new icons to put in.
<micahg> I tagged settings
<micahg> and uploaded....
<OvenWerks> thank you.
<OvenWerks> it fixes a bug.
<micahg> oh, hrm
<micahg> that's an old version
<micahg> ok, let me pull and upload again
<micahg> I uploaded that 2 months ago :)
<micahg> ok, looks good, should be up in a couple hours
<OvenWerks> Ok great.
<OvenWerks> micahg: should our branch show the release? or is that a few hours away as well?
<micahg> couple minutes (still uploading)
<OvenWerks> OK
<micahg> pushed + uploaded
<OvenWerks> Yup
<OvenWerks> zequence: has the bug with USB audio been fixed upstream in the kernel?
<micahg> FWIW, dcraw got an update yesterday (it FTBFS, but I fixed that)
<OvenWerks> the generic kernel is at least one version ahead of ours right now. but if the USB problem is not fixed...
<Mish> OvenWerks: So I rename all the icons to ubuntustudio- ?
<OvenWerks> Yes
<Mish> Ok. Also I don't see an index.theme in hiclor, so I'll make one
<OvenWerks> you can fix the *.directory files as well or I will when you are finished.
<Mish> yeah I'll do that
<OvenWerks> They should be in /usr/share/desktop-directories/
<Mish> yeah
<Mish> On second thought, I don't need to make an index.theme ........
<OvenWerks> Mish: no you shouldn't need to
<OvenWerks> hicolor already has a fully populated index
<Mish> yeah I just realised
<OvenWerks> If you add one it might break it
<Mish> yes, I won't make one
<zequence> OvenWerks: The generic kernel is never ahead of ours
<zequence> It shouldn't be anyway
<zequence> Mish: Did you make those icons in inkscape from scratch?
<Mish> zequence: Yes
<zequence> Mish: It looks a little pixelized, if you know what I mean. The lines don't look straight. I'm wondering is that because of some processing. 
<zequence> The preview that is
<zequence> I mean, the lines don't look smooth
<Mish> you mean the image I uploaded?
<zequence> Yes, and previous ones as well
<Mish> and do they look pixelated on all the sizes or only 16x16 ones?
<zequence> All sizes
<zequence> I'd still be interested in seeing the foreground totally white too
<Mish> Are you viewing them using the web-based image viewer on Wuala? or did you download them?
<Mish> some image viewers have scaling settings which make the image look blurred sometimes
<Mish> I think the foreground purely white wouldn't look very good, but I'll make the backgrounds darker for more contrast and then give a preview
<zequence> it's pretty much the same in all viewers
<zequence> Mish: Did you try it?
<zequence> I'm still thinking of the traffic sign look
<zequence> Really simple, and universal
<Mish> Try? You mean lighter foregrounds?
<zequence> When seeing the background colors in action in the menu, I find there's too much color. Do you feel that? 
<zequence> I'd rather make them a bit more grey. Just enough to make them more complex
<Mish> Well actually focusing on the colour was what I had in mind, so that's how I made it
<Mish> but I can make a slightly desaturated version as well
<Mish> And I'm not sure I get what you mean by complex
<zequence> Right. It feels like there's a hint too much saturation, making them stand out very much from the rest of the icons
<zequence> 32bit gives more complexity and variation. That kind of complexity
<zequence> Again, these are my opinions. I could make my own version, if you want
<zequence> But, I don't feel what is done now is the best we can do
<zequence> I'd also like to work more on the icons for graphics and publishing particularly
<zequence> I find it's a bit hard to make out what they are picturing. It's easy when you already know, but not when seeing it for the first time
<zequence> The brush should probably not be totally symmetric
<zequence> and I would not mind exchaning the pencil to a book or something
<Mish> I've updated graphics actually
<Mish> To make the brush more recognizable
<zequence> ok
<Mish> My original thinking was that making it unsymmetrical would introduce an organic shape and would look a bit inconsistent with the rest of the non-organic shapes. Also the idea of choosing those particular shapes was to make them cover a minimal amount of the icon real estate and hence bring the colours in the background into focus, with the shapes being just nominal hints as to what the icon isabout
<Mish> hence the vertical shapes with low width
<zequence> I take a very practical stance on this. I want to easily be able to recognize what the icon is for, the color is a great help to put them apart, and also, the quality should be ok enough to feel good about it
<zequence> When something of that doesn't feel right, I'll complain. Simple as that :)
<Mish> I'm open to ideas, I was explaining what I originally had in mind
<zequence> Ah, was just about to say something..
<Mish> ah connection problems
<zequence> Mish: I forgot one thing about the colors. Of course, the exact colors we use could be important - if we decide to use them for other things too.
<zequence> I think each color works well with its workflow, blue with audio, yellow with graphics, etc. 
<zequence> But, the exact quality of the color should be refined. Basically, we could create a pallet that we reuse for a long time ahead whenever using them for our workflows
<zequence> Not only the color I guess. The whole icon could be used for other things than the menu
<zequence> Feature tour, documentation, etc
<zequence> It will make each workflow become more defined somehow already by having a kind of branding
<Mish> So the current colours are ok?
<Mish> Also I couldn't understand what you meant by traffic sign look
<zequence> Mish: No, I think the choice of colors are right for the workflows, but they should be refined IMO
<zequence> Mish: Traffic signs often only have two colors
<zequence> And no shading or anything
<zequence> Very simple, very easy to read
<zequence> Here are some examples http://depositphotos.com/5761240/stock-illustration-Traffic-Sign.html
<zequence> typically, you use white foreground with some bg colors like red or blue, and black foreground with something like yellow
<zequence> My thought is use white foreground on all, and a palette of background colors that are easily distinguishable, but also blend in nicely to pretty much anything
<Mish> Did you find the shapes in the earlier icons recognizable? I am thinking of not having any background at all and colour the shapes.
<Mish> oh ok
<Mish> zequence: Um, could you also explain what you meant exactly by 'refined'?
<zequence> Mish: Well, simply put, something that looks better
<zequence> and IMO what would make it better is a color that takes more advantage of the color range, so that it looks pleasing to the eye, and blends well into its surroundsings, be it light or dark
<zequence> I could do some examples myself
<zequence> Mish: If I could get your project files, I could try some things
<Mish> yeah some visual cues would be helpful thanks
<Mish> Alright, I'll upload the SVGs on a temporary cloud folder
<zequence> OvenWerks: About the saucy kernel, the idea was that I take over maintenance, but that is still to come
<zequence> We need a workflow for the development release, since it's different from the stable release. 
<Mish> zequence: All the SVG sources  ---  https://www.wuala.com/Mishrito/SVGs/?key=bPfcVDLfXOc0
<zequence> The stable release updates are all SRUs
<zequence> Mish: Thanks
<OvenWerks> zequence: makes sense
<OvenWerks> I don't have something running R right now, I should boot to it and saee how my USB audio IF works now.
<OvenWerks> zequence: I actually like the icon colours. If they lighten too much they start to look like libreoffice
<zequence> OvenWerks: We aren't making them lighter, just less saturated
<zequence> This would be a job for madeinkobaia and Mish mostly, but I also like to make myself involved in the art department
<zequence> I'd rather not do anything, just say "ok"
<zequence> same with everything really
<OvenWerks> Ya, ok.
<OvenWerks> So far all I have seen look much better than the ones I made. :)
#ubuntustudio-devel 2014-07-16
<OvenWerks> elfy: re: pkexec, I seem to remember at one time gui apps could be run without config. But that hasn't been true for a bit. I did try playing with the default action
<OvenWerks> org.freedesktop.policykit.policy
<OvenWerks> but was not able to get it to pass the display info to the program .
<elfy> OvenWerks: did you see the xubuntu new wiki page ? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Specifications/Utopic/Pkexec
<OvenWerks> Ya, I saw that.
<elfy> there are 3 policies there that DO work 
<elfy> even if they aren't attached properly for some reason
<OvenWerks> Yes it is just that I thought maybe the default could be changed.
<OvenWerks> I have made my own actions for software I have made.
<elfy> I'm not sure what 'we're' going to do re that stuff tbh - I just brought it up - I spend more time in support areas than some others in xubuntu team
<elfy> and thus see all the use gksudo stuff constantly - and know that it's only ubuntu xubuntu and studio that don't seed gksu
<OvenWerks> But the only reason Studio doesn't have gksu is that it used to be in the default desktop.
<OvenWerks> So we didn't need to seed it.
<elfy> the defaul xubuntu stuff?
<OvenWerks> Will Thunar have some thing in the menu for a root window?
<elfy> not afaik 
<OvenWerks> No the default desktop stuff.
<OvenWerks> If you look at our seeds they depend on a default desktop.
<elfy> I wasn't party to the original xubuntu lose gksu discussion - and didn't really have much time last cycle to think about it 
<elfy> ok
<OvenWerks> There is a desktop-common.
<elfy> ok - so gksu is now missing from that then I assume
<OvenWerks> That would be my guess, we used to have it but did not remove it
<elfy> the thrust of my argument remains - ubuntu xubuntu and studio don't have it - I'm wondering why xubuntu don't as we've not got any policies
<OvenWerks> It would be nice to have a menu selection that starts thunar as root... terminal too
<elfy> ubuntu obviously have paid people sorting this stuff out 
<elfy> they have more policies :)
<elfy> personally I install gksu - seems easiest to me :)
<OvenWerks> Ya, they have moved everything to polkit. I think lubuntu and kubuntu have put gksudo back in.
<elfy> yep
<OvenWerks> We should maybe do the same.
<elfy> pretty sure edubuntu/myth etc have gksu still
<elfy> it's certainly in the manifests that I looked at - was just missing from the 3 
<elfy> though if you had it somewhere else I'd not have looked any deeper :p
<OvenWerks> Ya, gotta run, be back in a while.
<elfy> I suspect I'll be snoring :)
<elfy> but forestpiskie is in here logging for me if you want to ping me 
<OvenWerks> elfy: forgot to mention. sudo -E seems to work.
<elfy> so does sudo -H afaik
<OvenWerks> Yup, I wouldn't have thought so... the display gets set after, but it is probaly just my understanding of what the man page means
<elfy> same 
<elfy> we've been having forum discussions on this - both in the dev area and in the staff area 
<OvenWerks> I think we need to do some of this stuff for studio too. But I think the plan at some point is to just use one of the xubuntu desktop metas. So what xubuntu sets up will probably just work.
<OvenWerks> I know zequence wants to off load as much of the desktop work and maintenance as we can because we are a small team.
<elfy> I can understand that :)
<OvenWerks> I don't think wisker will work for us though. It is nice but because of our sub-submenus it is harder to use than the old menu.
<elfy> yea I can see that being an issue
<elfy> you'd have to create menus rather than subs 
<OvenWerks> I supose we could run 6 of them :)
<elfy> lol
<OvenWerks> (one for each workflow)
<OvenWerks> But if we were going to do that, the idea of a workflow menu or application that just has the apps needed for that workflow is another direction.
<elfy> or create specific menus - seems like a lot of work for little gain if current menu works 
<OvenWerks> Ya, my thought too. It is more along the lines of making things work in other DEs
<elfy> yea
<OvenWerks> sudo -H gives an error message like "Failed to connect to session manager: Failed to connect to the session manager: SESSION_MANAGER environment variable not defined" that sudo -E does not.
<elfy> not here 
<OvenWerks> interesting.
<elfy> sudo -H thunar - asks password - opens as root
<elfy> anyway - love to talk, but time's marching slowly towards the end of the day here for me :)
<elfy> good night OvenWerks :)
<OvenWerks> Ya that works here too, it was the terminal
<OvenWerks> gn
<elfy> heh - ok
<elfy> cya
#ubuntustudio-devel 2014-07-17
<OvenWerks> forestpiskie: with regard to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Specifications/Utopic/Pkexec , where can I find more info on how the policy files are packaged/installed? Are they a part of the application package? or the xubuntu settings? I need to do something similar for Studio I would guess. Does it come with *.desktop files?
<zequence> OvenWerks: Check out /usr/share/polkit-1/actions/
<zequence> ..on how to make pkexec work with an application
<OvenWerks> zequence: Ya I have used that. I was talking about how xubuntu had set up the changes for their use. If they are included in the app package or in the settings package
<OvenWerks> It would be nice to have a menu item in system for a root terminal or file manager. Which are two xubuntu is already setting up.
<OvenWerks> I would just like to take their work and use it (for compatability if nothing else)
<zequence> OvenWerks: Yes, I agree. We need to set up our settings so that desktop settings are replicated from them - and so, we should separate our audio settings into a different package as has been discussed
<OvenWerks> I would like one for gedit as well, but xubuntu uses mousepad
<OvenWerks> The conversation actually started in xubuntu-devel and I moved my part here when it got to be more STudio specific
<zequence> I got endorsed on my developer application during myt absence. Hoping I could get upload rights soon
<OvenWerks> Very good!
<zequence> OvenWerks: Did you have a look at -controls, btw?
<zequence> cjwatson is handling libav stuff. I think our ISO should build, if our meta is just updated. Not sure
<zequence> He removed some libav packages from our seeds a week ago, or so
<OvenWerks> zequence: Our meta is fixed, but libav is still in proposed
<OvenWerks> So the package our meta points to does not "exist" yet
<OvenWerks> I think we are also waiting on all the packages that depends on libav to have the depends fixed.
<OvenWerks> -controls is not in the PPA, does it run direct from the package directory? I am guessing it might being in python.
<zequence> OvenWerks: It's not packaged yet. Get lp:ubuntustudio-controls. The executable is src/ubuntustudio-controls
<zequence> you need to run it from that dir, in order to load the glade file
<OvenWerks> I may have to wait... I get 503 when trying to browse the code even.
<OvenWerks> There i go back again.
<OvenWerks> had to install bzr on this machine...
<OvenWerks> zequence: you are using a newer version of gtk+ than trusty has in it. -controls requires gtk+ 3.12 and trusty has 3.10
<zequence> OvenWerks: Ah, that's because of the glade file. Easy fix
<zequence> Just need to use the trusty version of Glade to create a new Glade file
<zequence> (or edit the file, haven't done that manually at all)
<zequence> OvenWerks: Try changing, in src/ubuntustudio.glade, the line " <requires lib="gtk+" version="3.12"/>""
<zequence> make it say 3.10 and see what happens
<OvenWerks> I did... not work.
<zequence> ok
<zequence> Well, I'll redo it in trusty later, then
<OvenWerks> But it is not the gui.
<OvenWerks> FileNotFoundError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory: '/usr/share/ubuntustudio-controls/audio.conf'
<zequence> OvenWerks: Ah, just need to move that file to there
<OvenWerks> It appears I need to partly install.
<zequence> ..or, copy, rather
<OvenWerks> Ah, have gui.
<OvenWerks> I take it anything already checked means the setup is ok?
<zequence> Yeah, it checks, but you can't make changes yet
<OvenWerks> zequence: I have that the user is in audio and realtime audio. I assume realtime audio means the audio.conf is named correctly and in the right directory?
<OvenWerks> Do we check for lowlatency kernel? I guess at this point it is meant for Studio which should already have that.
<zequence> The check is not complete yet, but it does make sure the supplied audio.conf doesn't diff with an existing one
<zequence> No, since this is only for the SRU, we only administer realtime for the time being
<OvenWerks> I think once it can set the two things set up it is enough for those who install Studio metas in a different DE
<zequence> Won't be very flexible, but it'll work
<zequence> Yeah
<OvenWerks> That seems to be the most often asked stuff on the irc channel.
<OvenWerks> Hmm I can't exit :)   X works though.
<zequence> The quit button in the top right corner should worki
<OvenWerks> Yup X works. 
#ubuntustudio-devel 2015-07-13
<sakrecoer-ZzZz> interesting discussion about bookwriting software...
<sakrecoer-ZzZz> i would have assumed libre office and scribus would be the bomb...
<sakrecoer-ZzZz> the few books i have put together (writen by other people) i have used indesign and quark express to layout word files... scribus is very similar to quark express... but it is a very vaste software with lots of finesse that takes time to learn...
<sakrecoer-ZzZz> if there is anything easier for putting together books, i think it would be great to include it :)
<sakrecoer-ZzZz> well... seems i have to go eat...
<sakrecoer-ZzZz> cya soon
<cub> sakrecoer-ZzZz, the discussion about Plume Creator and Scrivener is applications that help to writers write the books. You gather all the research, story ideas, person database etc in one place.When it's done you can export to markdown, PDF or other formats to put it together to an editor. Or you publish directly to an ebook.
<cub> So it's more all the work before you bring into Scribus or similar
#ubuntustudio-devel 2015-07-16
<OvenWerks> zequence_: I will be working at 1730. No access to a computer. I would be interested in reading whatever is said.
<zequence_> OvenWerks: The meetings are usually held at #ubuntu-meeting, so just keep logged in there, or read the log later
<OvenWerks> zequence_: Ya, there is a link on the wiki
<zequence_> I will mainly only remark on that we have a bit more people involved compared to last year. Other than that, I don't really have much to add myself
<zequence> Anyone is welcome to join the meeting, btw.
<zequence> Canonical made a change in their licensing https://sfconservancy.org/news/2015/jul/15/ubuntu-ip-policy/
<zequence> ..which FSF seemed to be happy about.
<zequence> I'm starting my vacation tomorrow, and am planning on working during it, so hoping to get some stuff done.
<zequence> Been really busy with other stuff these past weeks.
<holstein> zequence: so, 10 minutes til the "catch-up" meeting?
<OvenWerks> holstein: Thanks. I just got through reading the IRC log of the meeting.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2015-07-17
<zequence> Damn, I missed the meeting yesterday :P
<holstein> zequence: i attended
<holstein> i stated, you were the lead, and were doing a great job.. and AFAIK, the only code contributing member
<holstein> i also stated, the lead position seems to be handed off, in private, behind closed doors, to members who work hard, but, get burned out
<holstein> and, that we dont have many members
<holstein> contributing..
#ubuntustudio-devel 2015-07-18
<zequence> holstein: Actually, len may be doing more coding than me, so there's at least the two of us :).
<zequence> I'm not burned out, so don't worry about me
<holstein> oh, im not worried that you are burned out
<zequence> But, there is a problem with how we deal with a lot of stuff - mainly because our community is too small
<holstein> its that, you *will* .. since, there is literally no plan in place to swap leads
<holstein> you just go, til, somewhere, behind closed doors, you hand it off to someone
<zequence> That's not my plan though
<holstein> we should just document it as such, thats all
<zequence> My plan has always been to have an election, but for one to take place - with members who know what they are voting for, we need more people actively involved
<zequence> Also, there needs to be more than one other person to vote for
<holstein> i assure you, im not interested in beind lead
<holstein> i was, as i told you, personally, in PM,when the lead position was handed over to you, interested in entertaining someone like falk, or the AVlinux creator.. for example
<zequence> Can't hand anything over to anyone who doesn't do Ubuntu Studio development
<holstein> lol
<zequence> The only way to do this is to do this
<holstein> they would do whatever it takes, and be voted on..
<holstein> anyways, ideally, i think it was be great if you or len were MOTU's.. whatevrer sponsorship, $$, or work  that takes..
<zequence> I have upload rights for our packages, so that's always something
<zequence> I also have access to Debian multimedia sources
<zequence> Neither falktx or the AVLinux guy (to my knowledge) have been even trying to get into that
<zequence> That's kind of the problem
<holstein> right
<holstein> and why?
<holstein> why are we not attracting that kind of talent?
<zequence> No one is stopping them
<holstein> right.. so, again... why?
<zequence> It's up to them what they want to do
<holstein> what limitations? can we do something to attract them? do we need to? etc..
<zequence> It's not like there there are a lot of barriers in the way
<zequence> It's pretty open to whoever has the interest
<zequence> If you don't have the interest, well..
<holstein> you would think.. so whats up?
<holstein> thats all i would like to know, and address
<holstein> is it upstream? is it not having support in the work flow? is it *us* here? etc
<zequence> I think it's mostly personal stuff, but that's my opinion
<holstein> not that we have to make it a goal to be attractive.. but, why are folks not working with us, and making their own stuff?
<zequence> No one here is stopping anyone from doing stuff
<zequence> falktx doesn't want to do things the hard way - following a policy made by a community
<holstein> right.. the door is open, i get that.. but to what?
<zequence> That's my interpretation of what he told me, anyway
<zequence> He likes to do things his own way.
<zequence> That doesn't work
<holstein> nah
<zequence> I mean, to a limit
<holstein> thats what ubuntu is ;)
<holstein> someone setting up a way, and the community following it, and re-defining it
<holstein> falk is talented. if he wanted to get more involved upstream.. etc
<zequence> Everyone is welcome to continue the work, but you also have to respect the work
<holstein> anyways, its deoesnt have to be falk..
<holstein> do you have to repect the work?
<zequence> None of falktx applications have been packaged in Debian yet
<holstein> respect what work? where?
<holstein> you mean, they have to "respect upstream"? and who does? anyone?
<zequence> What work? The work that the community does, for Debian, and Ubuntu
<holstein> its not documented that respect is part of the equation.. etc..
<zequence> You have to respect the policies, and other stuff that the community has agreed on, in one way or another
<zequence> YOu cant just bypass everything
<zequence> But, if you want to, you can always start your own distro
<OvenWerks> Part of the limitation with US is that we have to work with our repo. Often the version of a major app or utility we are stuck with in an LTS ends up broken.
<holstein> well, there was a suggestion to breakk it off into a PPA
<holstein> which, i think is a valid conversation
<OvenWerks> Jackd2 in 14.04 as an example.
<OvenWerks> putting it in a ppa, makes it the same as falk's work
<holstein> if we, based on work flow, are *always* limited by that, and releasing something that is always behind, or, not good enough, then, its something to discuss, for sure
<zequence> I got to go, sorry. But, I will be available a lot more the coming week. Planning to do a lot of work then.
<holstein> anyways, this is the kind of thing we can discuss at meetings.. which, i will hopefully be having time for setting up in the fall
<OvenWerks> I am speaking from mostly an audio POV for sure as I don't do enough of anyting else
<holstein> i would like to speak constructively about how to identify, and potentially address what may keep contributors from joining
<holstein> "respect" is not a requirement ;)
<OvenWerks> encouragement probably is
<holstein> its not documented anywhere that i know of.. folks disagree all the time, and identify, and address, and change things.. it doenst have to be a sign of disrespect to want to change things.. 
<OvenWerks> I agree
<holstein> i would just like to brainstorm.. why do folks start their own spins, instead of contributing here, to US
<holstein> if its because we are always limited to the repo, can we address that? do we need to maintain an official port, etc..
<holstein> if its, "its just too hard to properly work with upstream ubuntu", then, we need to mention that to upstream, and see about getting a liason, or whatever..
<OvenWerks> If you look at kzstudio, it always has the latest fixes. Even quicker than they get to debian, let alone ubuntu.
<holstein> yup
<holstein> and if thats the appeal, how do we compete with that? and do we need to?
<OvenWerks> The day after (hour after?) ardour 4.1 was out, it was in kxstudio
<holstein> ubuntu-mate is going to implement some form of 'work flows' soon.. meta packages for different production
<holstein> are we being made irrelevant?
<holstein> we dont contrbute any code, other than the low latency kernel, AFAIK
<holstein> so, could we just do that? just be "the ubuntustudio kernel"..?
<OvenWerks> When people ask for a recomended distro, it is almost never Studio.
<holstein> again.. just brain storming.. but, having a kernel, in the main repo, that works well.. that would contribute to everyone.. 
<OvenWerks> Yes.
<holstein> OvenWerks: its always specifically, that ubuntustudio is *not* a good choice
<OvenWerks> kx uses it :)
<holstein> OvenWerks: i challenge it, and am usually met with "ok, i havent actually tried it in years".. or whatever
<holstein> but still.. its a bad reputation.. and i would like to, from the ground up, look at all the moving parts.. or, non-moving parts, and see what we need to do to fit whatever goals it is we have
<holstein> who is we? etc..
<OvenWerks> holstein: I think there are some things in the linux world that are not generally done right for audio.
<holstein> OvenWerks: for audio production, for sure.. and are we always burned by that? if so, the PPA thing sounds like a good idea
<holstein> though, then, we compete with falk..
<OvenWerks> right
<holstein> i have to run, or i will miss the double gigs i have.. cheers!
<OvenWerks> I think the (semi)pro audio linux world needs to start with running jack from session start
<OvenWerks> holstein: o/
#ubuntustudio-devel 2015-07-19
<holstein> OvenWerks: do you?
<holstein> i mean, do you personally run it from session start?
<holstein> i think that, as long as theres a tick box somewhere, that should probably be the default.. jack starts, at session start, by default
<OvenWerks> holstein: Yes, both mine and my wifes computer have jack as default audio backend and pulse as front end for desktop.
<OvenWerks> Jack never needs to be started or stopped for the whole session from login to logout.
<OvenWerks> I can change latency on the fly as well as disconect pulse at very low latencies.
<OvenWerks> a2jmidid also starts at session start.
<holstein> OvenWerks: what do we need to do to ship like that? i think thats a good idea..
<OvenWerks> holstein: A lack of helpful people telling newbys how to set jack up on lau :)
<OvenWerks> holstein: a script in /etc/xdg/autostart/
<holstein> OvenWerks: what do you think about a welcome pop-up?
<OvenWerks> In general any GUI takes 10 times as much coding as the underlying code.
<OvenWerks> But it could be done.
<OvenWerks> holstein: My setup assumes one audio IF but there are people who want to use a USB AI at home and the internal AI on the road or for mixdown.
<OvenWerks> holstein: a popup at new AI detection or at login might be good for setting or changing default AI.
<OvenWerks> The same popup should have a way of starting by user choice at any time as well.
<OvenWerks> holstein: either systray or utiliy menu or both.
<OvenWerks> (some DEs have no systray... like vanilla)
#ubuntustudio-devel 2016-07-20
<sakredot> dot release looking good so far... tho these seem to remain: #1527314 
<sakredot> #1550186
<sakredot> bug#1550210
<sakredot> bug 1527314
<ubottu> bug 1527314 in phatch (Ubuntu) "Neither Dropplet nor Inspect will accept images. No reaction what so ever" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1527314
<sakredot> thank you ubottu :) bug 1550186
<ubottu> bug 1550186 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "First entry of boot-menu "Try UbuntuStudio without installing" do not get translated into the chosen language" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1550186
<sakredot> bug 1550210
<ubottu> bug 1550210 in imagemagick (Ubuntu) "Desktop file does not open ImageMagick from the menu" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1550210
<sakredot> at least in the live session... installing to disk as i type...
<sakredot> also, hi guys!
<sakrecoer> is there no test-case for upgrade from 14.04 to 16.04.1? 
<sakrecoer> i think i understood it would be rolling out once .1 was released..
<sakrecoer> zequence, OvenWerks, any idea..?
<sakrecoer> i have to log out for the day, i'll be back later tonight so check if there was any rebuild that needs to be rechecked...
<sakrecoer> *to check if there was any rebuild
<sakrecoer> i tried 32 and 64 bit and it looks good to me... but i reckon we need a few more tests... ping: astraljava1, autumna, cyphermox, DalekSec, luisbg, Noskcaj, OvenWerks, zequence. pong: http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/363/builds
<zequence> sakrecoer: The upgrade tests are usually in another section, but I usually don't bother with them, since the support for them from our side is pretty much non existent.
<zequence> An upgrade should work, but it will most probably cause some form of duplicity of systems in between changes that we've done
<zequence> Or, as a result of the changes that we've done, I mean
<zequence> In some cases I'm sure this is solved by debian packaging, where one package will "Replace" another.
<luisbg> sakrecoer: very cool
<sakrecoer> thanks zequence.
<sakrecoer> luisbg: what can we do, except stay cool?.. awesome would be many tests, forward is participation.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2016-07-21
<sakrecoer> one cpuld argue, forward is backward when participation was it. but then again, where is the youth?
<sakrecoer> somewhere around, trying its best not to be like the elders, maybe..
<luisbg> sakrecoer: what's the status on the RT (Real-Time) kernel branch and how much does it impact audio?
<sakrecoer> luisbg: we use the low latency kernel. afaik we haven't planed on using the RT. My experience is that lowlatency's performance is very good but perhaps OvenWerks would be better suited to answer you with a more technical response..
<sakrecoer> i guess it depends on your needs and your hardware, but i believe the performance gains of rt over lowlatency is minimal. 
<luisbg> sakrecoer: just curious since rt/lowlatency was a big part of Ubuntu Studio 6 years ago
<zequence> sakrecoer: infity asked me before if we were good to go with Ubuntu Studio
<zequence> Seems the release may be early today
<zequence> Going to check the ready state in the qa site as soon as my browser will let me
<OvenWerks> luisbg: low latency includes almost all the RT code thse days. I have heard that RT does help with some USB audio IF at very low latency(less than 5ms) for live work. I personally have not had any trouble with low latency kernels down to less than 1ms with a PCI (ice1712) audio if.
<luisbg> OvenWerks: interesting, I should catch up with the low latency scheduler branch
<sakrecoer> zequence: thanks! this morning it looked like someone had set it to "ready" already. thought it was you...
<sakrecoer> saw the discussion now, so infinity marked it ready... i hope it's fine, it seems i'm the only one who tested it.
<OvenWerks> sakrecoer: it should be just the same as installin 16.04.00 and upgrading
<OvenWerks> sakrecoer: so we have been testing at least most of it in day to day use
<sakrecoer> OvenWerks: thanks for clearing that up.. i was a littleb bit nervous about it tbh :)
<sakrecoer> i'm not sure i will be able to update the release note today unfortunately (maybe, but really maybe i will be able), but if not i will tomorrow morning first thing.
<sakrecoer> gg!
<sakrecoer> :) read y'all later!
#ubuntustudio-devel 2016-07-22
<avc> exit
<avc> quit
<avc> \exit
<avc> \quit
<autumna> hi dool7
<dool7> hi. someone recommended i come to this channel if I'm interested in helping with the Ubuntu Studio project
<zequence> dool7: Just keep logged in, and in touch. Or, present yourself on our devel mail list. May take a while before someone answers.
<autumna> welcome, but yes, what zequence said
<zequence> Night everyone!
<autumna> gnight
#ubuntustudio-devel 2018-07-16
<cyphermox> Eickmeyer: looking again at calf now
<eylul> I can't wait us to switch to KDE
<eylul> and being able to say: use the KDE variant which at least has some basic wacom gui support :)
<OvenWerks> when... if controls ever gets released and is stable... and I have access to a tablet, that may get added to controls.
<eylul> *is feeling very guilty for dropping the ball about it*
<OvenWerks> and we could add the kde version of tablet setup to xfce so far as I know, but there is not a 1804 version, just 1810 so far as I know
<eylul> I can test and give you, button mappings (e.g. which button is which one showing on xsetwacom) etc and test for at least umm.. a bamboo, an intuos and a cintiq
<eylul> I would see how feature complete KDE's is
<eylul> it might also be a worth it to contribute to that
<eylul> although it would be nice to have something platform agnostic.
<OvenWerks> one problem we have, is that -controls is gtk based
<eylul> hmmm?
<eylul> I.. am not sure how that can be a problem (or rather I can guess multiple ways it could be, but I am not certain which one you are referring to)
<Eickmeyer> cyphermox: Thanks!
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Keeping -controls GTK based isn't an issue at all. GTK theming in Plasma has come a _long_ way.
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: we should do tcl/tk ;)
<cyphermox> Eickmeyer: any specific reason for adding -ffast-math -mtune=generic -msse -msse2 -mfpmath=sse  ?
<cyphermox> (not all of those work on architectures other than x86)
<cyphermox> oh, I think those are actually exactly what --enable-sse does
#ubuntustudio-devel 2018-07-17
<Eickmeyer> cyphermox: No idea.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2018-07-21
<Eickmeyer> If anybody is here, ping me so we can start our meeting.
<eylul> I just saw your email sorry
<eylul> no particular progress report from me btw
<eylul> epub is partway done. did a lot of overhead work, on getting the styles etc sorted out. now copying the content in
<Eickmeyer> Yeah, you saw mine in the email.
<eylul> heh
<Eickmeyer> I wouldn't mind even skipping this meeting and postponing to next meeting. I didn't get much done.
<eylul> unexpected work related stuff ate quite a bit of time for me past 2 weeks.
<Eickmeyer> Same
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks had a similar situation.
<eylul> ah ok
<eylul> btw in future if we can have a meeting hour change announced a bit earlier, we can adjust better :)
<Eickmeyer> He was working on -plasma, but there's a lot to be done in order to start the iso build.
<eylul> honestly I am amazed at the amount of work already going out in this release
<Eickmeyer> Yeah. We're busting tail.
<eylul> 6 months isn't a huge amount of time, especially when lat 1/3rd of it is basically bug fixing and testing
<eylul> if we only get controls out, that's good progress
<eylul> if we get controls and plasma out that is amazing progress
<eylul> I am not counting wallpaper because technically that was done for last push
<Eickmeyer> Yeah. I'm working on Cadence if for nothing else than to replace Patchage with Catia.
<eylul> would be lovely to have those things on ubuntustudio. but just to remind you...
<eylul> you are a lot more useful to us being here long time
<eylul> :)
<Eickmeyer> cyphermox is working on getting my repackage of calf in Debian, which would be as simple as a sync request.
<eylul> so one thing at a time
<eylul> nice
<eylul> I wasn't able to look into the ISO related stuff. epub... well
<Eickmeyer> I'm glad to be so helpful. I saw a need and filled the need. It's what I do.
<eylul> ok lets say it turned out to be a tiny bit more work than I anticipated it to be. (I had previously converted books from open office format, never copied from wiki) but it has also been a very nice learning experience
<eylul> (also dealing with some formatting issues like side columns which I normally simply avoid in books for that reason) ;)
<Eickmeyer> Totally. preppert chose to do it that way, so I just mimicked as good as I could.
<eylul> *nods*
<Eickmeyer> I'm rattling-around in my head a section on live audio production, since that's my area of expertise.
<eylul> I would suggest maybe a separate book
<eylul> the way this one is written really works as a work done by one person. 
<Eickmeyer> True, but he handed it to us to be authors along with him, to change and add to as seen fit.
<eylul> that's fair
<eylul> maybe we can have a second edition of sorts. :)
<Eickmeyer> Yeah.
<Eickmeyer> We can probably add a credit section for authors of various sections/chapters.
<eylul> that could work
<Eickmeyer> I already had to make major edits to the VST/Carla section since there was incorrect information, such as the initial requirement of needing wine, which is incorrect since there are native Linux VSTs.
<eylul> well...
<eylul> there are many vsts without native linux equivalent
<Eickmeyer> This is true, but the ones used in the example had native versions.
<eylul> oh
<Eickmeyer> And there was uproar from people in the community about it.
 * Eickmeyer waves to captain-tux
<captain-tux> Hi :)
<eylul> oh ok... and whooops in this case :)
<eylul> hi captain-tux
<Eickmeyer> captain-tux: We're considering postponing until next week. Work and life got in the way these past two weeks.
<Eickmeyer> Basically... nothing of note got done. Everything is still work-in-progress.
<Eickmeyer> Nothing really to report.
<eylul> I do have a question btw
<Eickmeyer> eylul and I were discussing the Audio Handbook a little off-the-record (even though everything here is logged).
<Eickmeyer> eylul: What's up?
<captain-tux> Oh, I understand. Same here...
<eylul> this is for a future meeting but.. is there a solution for us to share passwords?
<eylul> securely that is not manually that we can use.
<Eickmeyer> In what way for what purpose?
<eylul> something like lastpass but opensource. ideally within launchpad or outside
<eylul> e.g. mastodon account password.
<eylul> also like.. it would be nice to have an internet archive account down the line for things like the epub
<Eickmeyer> Ohhh... yeah, that would be a good thing.
<eylul> our current system is secure enough but VERY awkward
<Eickmeyer> sakrecoer never handed the reigns to the G+ account, so that would be something to prevent a similar situations from happening.
<eylul> yeah exactly
<Eickmeyer> Lastpass has a way of sharing passwords, but I'd hate to have everyone have to pay to use something like that.
<eylul> yeah
<Eickmeyer> I'll ask around. I think Noah Chelliah might have an idea.
<eylul> *nods* ok
<Eickmeyer> He's Noah of the Ask Noah Show, and a personal friend of mine. I'll ping him.
<eylul> ah
<eylul> I mean I have one idea..
<eylul> but we would need to host it
<Eickmeyer> Yeah. Hosting is its own can of worms lately. *sigh*
<eylul> yeah
<eylul> honestly I am surprised canonical doesn't have it as part of ubuntu suite
<eylul> and it might be worth bringing this up with them
<Eickmeyer> Yeah. I might ping tsimonq2 if he knows of a solution.
<Eickmeyer> As far as the Facebook page, I have full ownership now, so that's not an issue. FB is easier to hand-off than most other accounts.
<Eickmeyer> We can add that to our next meeting agenda. I think we should formally start a meeting to take a vote to postpone the meeting until next week.
<Eickmeyer> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Sat Jul 21 19:12:14 2018 UTC.  The chair is Eickmeyer. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<captain-tux> Do you know about Hootsuite?
<Eickmeyer> #chair eylul captain-tux
<meetingology> Current chairs: Eickmeyer captain-tux eylul
<eylul> commercial
<Eickmeyer> captain-tux: commercial, closed source.
<eylul> (also things like mastodon doesn't work with it)
<captain-tux> Oh, okay.
<Eickmeyer> For our twitter account, I'm part of the team (along with sakrecoer), so we can use tweetdeck for that.
<eylul> facebook and twitter has team options
<eylul> unfortunately mastodon doesn't. internet archive if we went that route wouldn't work with it either. 
<Eickmeyer> Yep, so it's not essential to know the master passwords in those cases.
<Eickmeyer> Anyhow...
<eylul> yeah
<eylul> :)
<Eickmeyer> #topic Postpone One Week
<Eickmeyer> #vote Postpone One Week
<meetingology> Please vote on: Postpone One Week
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
<Eickmeyer> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from Eickmeyer
<eylul> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from eylul
<captain-tux> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from captain-tux
<Eickmeyer> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: Postpone One Week
<meetingology> Votes for:3 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<Eickmeyer> #endmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting ended Sat Jul 21 19:14:36 2018 UTC.  
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntustudio-devel/2018/ubuntustudio-devel.2018-07-21-19.12.moin.txt
<Eickmeyer> Shortest. Meeting. Ever.
<Eickmeyer> eylul: I'll add that to the agenda.
<eylul> haha
<eylul> thanks :)
<eylul> eickmeyer btw reminder to try out mastodon.
<eylul> btw if anyone wants to help out with management of that account let me know
<Eickmeyer> eylul: Yeah, I thought about that last night before bed. :/ Action was not taken. XD
<eylul> would it help if I emailed you an invite from the node I am currently on?
<eylul> (same goes to you captain-tux)
<Eickmeyer> Yeah, probably. a "getting started" idea like that isn't a bad one.
<captain-tux> I'll come back to that next week, I suppose I won't have a lot of time to look into it until then. :/
<eylul> Eickmeyer doing so now. captain-tux more than fair. :) no pressure
<Eickmeyer> Okay. Well, the wife is asking me to get her going with this get-together we're hosting, so I better hop off.
<Eickmeyer> o/
<captain-tux> See you, thanks!
<eylul> take care.
<eylul> ok I should also get going unless you need me for something captain-tux?
<captain-tux> No, just leave me behind. It's alright...
<eylul> ouch
<eylul> :)
<captain-tux> See you around. ;)
<eylul> take care :)
#ubuntustudio-devel 2019-07-15
<Eickmeyer> Weird.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2019-07-17
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer[m]: what I haven't said is that the zita command defaults to 48000 instead of the 44100 he is using for the focusrite
<Eickmeyer> Huh.
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Using an @ before a Telegram user's handle highlights them.
<Eickmeyer> The handle itself doesn't highlight like IRC does. Inconvenient, I know, but also good to know.
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: I have come across Audio devices with one speed only... some are 48000, some 44100 and some even 96000 :P
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: I've come across that as well.
 * teward salts Eickmeyer / Eickmeyer[m] 
 * Eickmeyer peppers teward
<Eickmeyer> Sorry, was EPLAYINGGAME
 * teward places antimatter everywhere then watches everything be destroyed violently
<teward> oh good so you can reply to my messages now
<Eickmeyer> Yes.
<OvenWerks> 19.10 apt update takes a while today
<OvenWerks> Maybe it's because there are 766 packages I can update
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: -controls has been released?
 * OvenWerks guesses he will find out soon
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Yes, but there's nothing stopping me from uploading a new version.
<OvenWerks> hmm, 8% maybe not so soon
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: not a problem I was just wondering why my 19.10 controls was old
<OvenWerks> I am just testing my newest grub bits... works so far but there is only one kernel.
<Eickmeyer> Well, anything with a ~ suffix is treated as older than anything in the archive. For instance, 0.44~19.04 is older than 0.44.
<OvenWerks> I will have two soon and then test and then add generic
<OvenWerks> and test again.
<Eickmeyer> Fun.
<OvenWerks> so if "Joe Tester" shows up anywhere :)
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: dispite my comment about controls needing more love, I don't know that I will be doing more this cycle. Particularly in the way of per device settings. That would be a lot of work.
<OvenWerks> installer going back to the install screen... maybe.
<Eickmeyer> Gotcha. I think it's pretty good as it is, but if you have anything else to change/fix, now is the time.
<OvenWerks> -default-settings for sure
<Eickmeyer> Yep. Got that done yet, or still testing?
<OvenWerks> still testing for a while
<OvenWerks> The logic doesn't feel right, but when I fix it, it gets worse :P
<OvenWerks> Ahh, I think I know why it worked.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2019-07-18
<OvenWerks> It may not work with a generic thrown in
<OvenWerks> 28% :(
<OvenWerks> I don't know how far to go with setting up this 19.10 partition to my liking. It will probably get over written
<Eickmeyer> I never keep my test partitions around for long.
<OvenWerks> Ya, but I kept typing in the wrong terminal because.... focus follows mouse= off
 * OvenWerks wonders how anyone could work like that
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: is there a known bug for the power manager showing up (battery icon in the panel) on a non-battery system?
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: I don't think that's a bug, I think it's just the default icon, but I don't know. bluesabre^
<OvenWerks> I am not sure I like the network Icon. 
<OvenWerks> it looks too much like firefox pocket
<OvenWerks> as in not very obvious what it is.
<OvenWerks> I'll look when I get back to 18.04 not worried till then
<OvenWerks> when I first opened patchage everything was dancing :)
<Eickmeyer> The network icon looks like a network connector to me.
<Eickmeyer> Wireless looks like a wireless cone.
<Eickmeyer> I don't see Firefox Pocket in that at all.
<OvenWerks> I don't have that (or wireless)
<OvenWerks> once I know what it is, it stops mattering anyway.
<Eickmeyer> Bear in mind, this is Xfce 4.14-pre1, so there are bugs.
<Eickmeyer> Icon theming hasn't changed from 19.04, FYI.
<OvenWerks> I don't have 1904
<OvenWerks> Ah, patchage was set to "sprung layout" I couldn't move anything without it bouncing back to where it came from.
<Eickmeyer> Must be the default?
<OvenWerks> I guess.
<Eickmeyer> I use Carla for all of that functionality anyhow. 
<OvenWerks> bad default IMO, if it decides to put things inthe wrong place, everything bounces all over
<Eickmeyer> I agree. I'm not a fan of Patchage. A lot of people love it, though.
<OvenWerks> qjackctl has a similar screen now.
<Eickmeyer> Not the version we carry, which is sadly out of date.
<OvenWerks> aeolus could use a nicer icon. I think it is using the alsa one now.
<OvenWerks> zyn should be moved to a submenu
<OvenWerks> (instruments)
<Eickmeyer> I agree with that. aeolus appears to be using some sort of a default icon.
<OvenWerks> zyn should have the new gui too but I guess not in debian yet?
<Eickmeyer> It's not in Debian yet. Also a complete pain to get to work. Reminded me of the NON-tools with getting it to work.
<OvenWerks> We should at least hide the OSS version.
<OvenWerks> audio-x-generic for aeolus icon
<Eickmeyer> Just made the change in -default-settings to hide the OSS version.
<Eickmeyer> (not pushed)
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: I am witing for teward to sponsor raysession before dropping LADI.
<OvenWerks> OK. I don't really care one way or tuther
<OvenWerks> but it makes sense
 * OvenWerks workflow seems not to be normal
<OvenWerks> So far so good. two lowlatency kernels work fine
<OvenWerks> DL generic now
<Eickmeyer> coo
<OvenWerks> two steps forward and one step back or something.
<OvenWerks> The main grub menu now displays two entries with correct labels, one lowlatency and the second generic...
<OvenWerks> the sub menu displays the old lowlatency at the bottom (two entries) good
<Eickmeyer> Oof
<OvenWerks> above that I have three double entries but all for the latest lowlatency and none for the generic
<Eickmeyer> Okay, well, that's at least correctible.
<OvenWerks> yes.
<OvenWerks> at least the main menu works as expected
<Eickmeyer> Cool.
<teward> Eickmeyer: unlikely to be tonight
<teward> got home and was beat instantly
<teward> phone's repaired tho :p
<teward> but err:deadtired
<Eickmeyer> teward: No worries. Thanks for the willingness.
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: pushed change to default settings, I am guessing it will create a number of packages, but the grub one needs testing
<OvenWerks> It needs testing with generic only... in xubuntu? lowlatency only, and of course both
<OvenWerks> Look for duplicate entries for the same kernel :)
<OvenWerks> I have to download some ISOs I guess. I will test on a Studio ISO and maybe a kubuntu ISO
<OvenWerks> new build queued
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: I would not suggest the lowlatency-settings be backported. I built it around the 1910 version of grub
<OvenWerks> It may be possible to backport via a git branch by using a diff, But I have noticed that some of the variable names have changed as well, so the diff will not just fit, it would need rewarping to work... it is of course possible the file would just work as is...
<OvenWerks> Studio ISO at 67% and kubuntu at 35.6%
<OvenWerks> off to bed I think
<OvenWerks> Both my ISO DL failed :( I guess a new ISO got rolled or something
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: The old version of the lowlatency settings probably hadn't been edited since 16.04 or prior, so I'm willing to bet whatever you did will work when backported.
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: ubuntustudio-lowlatency-settings conflicts with -default-settings
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: -default-settings provides -lowlatency-settings, so it's not a conflicts so much as it is -lowlatency-settings isn't necessary if -default-settings is installed.
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: I think it would be better for -default-settings to depend on -lowlatency-settings
<Eickmeyer> Let me see what I can do.
<OvenWerks> I understand that, but that means both packages have to have the same install.
<OvenWerks> I guess changing -default-settings might cause trouble at this point?
<Eickmeyer> Nah, it should be fine. Seems as if apt knows that the files come from the same place.
<OvenWerks> when I tried to install lowlatency, dpkg said it conflicted but not that default-settings provides
<Eickmeyer> If I move lowlatency-settings from a provides to a recommends, that should solve a few things.
<Eickmeyer> er, to a depends.
<OvenWerks> So anyway, I will just change the settings install. and we can leave it alone
<Eickmeyer> Well, -performance-tweaks is set-up the same way (this was early when I was figuring out packaging).
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: if we want them truely separate, we can change the install for default settings to install /etc/sub directories rather than /etc like now
<Eickmeyer> Yeah, that's what I'm working on. Then make them both deps.
<OvenWerks> ok
<OvenWerks> don't build yet though
<OvenWerks> I would like to try things as is in kubuntu first 
<OvenWerks> Actually it might not matter, that shouldn't change lowlatency-settings
<Eickmeyer> Right.
<OvenWerks> grub-emu
<OvenWerks> focus doesn't follow my mouse :P
 * OvenWerks reboots... again
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: which package do we file a bug against for no prompt to remove install media?
<OvenWerks> (the new grub looks good BTW, just need to make it install correctly)
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: I honestly don't know, probably livecd-rootfs, but I'd want to make sure the bug exists in other flavors first.
<OvenWerks> ok
<OvenWerks> Interesting, double click on a disk icon doesn't seem to mount it. selecting it in thunar works fine.
<Eickmeyer> Remember, you're looking at xfce 4.14-pre1, so it's not done yet.
<OvenWerks> No worries, I normally have those set to not display, so I don't even know if that is normal :)
<OvenWerks> hmm, maybe I single or right clicked, worked the next time
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Just pushed my changes to ubuntustudio-default-settings
<Eickmeyer> Really, just messed with the way it's packaged and installed.
<OvenWerks> ok
<OvenWerks> reboot...
<OvenWerks> installing kubuntu
<OvenWerks> The installer seems more inteligent
<OvenWerks> It didn't try to resize the partition to the same size like ours did
<Eickmeyer> That's strange because it's just the qt version of ubiquity.
<Eickmeyer> Unless they changed to Calamares.
<Eickmeyer> We need an additional module before we can go to Calamares, which is why I haven't touched it.
<Eickmeyer> Oof... experiencing major failure-to-boot issues with kernel 5.2
<OvenWerks> Huh, lowlatency-settings depends on linux-lowlatency
<Eickmeyer> Well, yeah. What's the point in installing it unless you have the lowlatency kernel installed?
<OvenWerks> I guess that is ok, it just won't allow me to test no lowlatency operation, but if it depends on lowlatency, I guess it doesn't matter
<Eickmeyer> Interesting. Kernel 5.2 (in eoan) breaks amdgpu.dc.
<OvenWerks> not nice.
<Eickmeyer> Yeah. Had to set my kernel parameters to disable it.
<OvenWerks> konsole seems to be "fixed", when I resize one terminal it does apply to the next one I open. (good)
<OvenWerks> Maybe the defaults are just better
<OvenWerks> we will see when I close this window (which is 40 lines rather than 25)
<Eickmeyer> Somebody filed a bug against all of Ubuntu Studio when it was clear the issue was initramfs-tools, and that they probably screwed-up their config somehow.
<OvenWerks> filing a bug is confusing at the best of times
<OvenWerks> There is no gui for ubuntu-bug... and even if there was, how does one know which package to blame
<OvenWerks> Then if someone installs sw from our backport ppa, ubuntu-bug won't work anyway.
<Eickmeyer> This is true, but we have bug reports enabled for the backport ppa.
<OvenWerks> For the? or for our? That is I think there is an "official" backports PPA too?
<OvenWerks> Also, it may have been auto I tried on.
<OvenWerks> Anyway, my install strategy for grub seems to have worked.
<OvenWerks> My only thing is that probably I should be forcing a update-grub as well
<OvenWerks> back to 1804...
<Eickmeyer> Cool.
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Today was 18.10's EOL, I just removed all 18.10 packages from the backports PPA.
<Eickmeyer> Autobuild will be next.
<Eickmeyer> And done. Cosmic is now dead.
<OvenWerks> left at light speed...
<Eickmeyer> dpf-plugins is now in Eoan, adding to our seed.
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Did you say that you're comfortable with releasing the changes you made for grub?
<OvenWerks> I need to look at what changes you have made first
<OvenWerks> lowlatency-settings is fine though, it is just defaultsettings
<Eickmeyer> All I did was change -default-settings to only install everything -lowlatency-settings and -performance-tweaks doesn't install, but to depend on them both.
<Eickmeyer> Meaning that -default-settings does nothing different in terms of what it installs because it needs what the others have.
<OvenWerks> the default-settings.postinstall now needs to be moved to lowlatency-settings
<OvenWerks> I'll do that next
<Eickmeyer> Oh, I just did it. Simple copy/paste.
<Eickmeyer> Unless you have a better way.
 * Eickmeyer leaves it alone
<OvenWerks> Copy and paste yes... The part that is already in lowlatency.postinstall should come first, followed by the part from default...
<Eickmeyer> Thought so, but I'll let you make the changes and I'll just pull.
<Eickmeyer> Let me know when you've pushed so I can pull. I'd like to get this stuff in eoan.
<OvenWerks> Yes, will do
<OvenWerks> I don't think we need a default-settings.postinstall now.
<Eickmeyer> Well, considering it would be nothing but comments, that's correct.
<OvenWerks> there it be
<OvenWerks> building
<Eickmeyer> Pulled
<Eickmeyer> I'll wait for the autobuild to finish and update from that to test it myself before getting it all into eoan.
<OvenWerks> thank you
<OvenWerks> cfdisk
<Eickmeyer> cfdisk?
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Confirmed, the fixes you made to the grub menu work. I'll go ahead and push this to eoan, if you feel it's ready.
<OvenWerks> yup
<Eickmeyer> Done
<Eickmeyer> What we have in Eoan, I'd say, is very close to what we'll ship.
<Eickmeyer> I just want raysession in and ladish out.
<Eickmeyer> I saw objections to raysession in #lad, but idc that much.
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: don't worry about that.
<OvenWerks> I just thought if nsm could be built with fltk, that may get it into debian
<OvenWerks> ntk is built off of fltk
<OvenWerks> falktx assertion that nsm only needs to work with jack makes sense but may not be correct.
<OvenWerks> more audio programs use alsa dirrectly. If one adds some sort of control aplications along side, nsm could still be useful... maybe.
<OvenWerks> however, he is right that many desktops now have their own session management
<OvenWerks> So we may see a session manager built into jack/carla
<Eickmeyer> That would be nice.
<Eickmeyer> But the raysession+carla option meets all of the sweet spots anyhow.
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Do you feel like -controls is where it's going to be for release, or do you have more tweaking to do?
<OvenWerks> I think for this release it is good.
<OvenWerks> Anything I might like to work on would be major.
<OvenWerks> Some things I would like to see:
<OvenWerks> better help
<OvenWerks> -zita calls checking the device and selecting closest available SR
<OvenWerks> setting piority.
<OvenWerks> Tabblet stuff... wait and see if the DEs do more with that
<Eickmeyer> Ok, any of that you think could make it into 19.10?
<OvenWerks> Not at this point. I am happy with what it is. bugs I would like to know about :)
<OvenWerks> feature requests that are small
<Eickmeyer> Ok. I'll get this uploaded then.
<OvenWerks> I thought -controls was already uploaded?
<Eickmeyer> Not your latest changes as I look at it.
<Eickmeyer> Such as input only, backends only getting parameters they can handle, setting i/o channel count, subprocesses from strings to array...
<OvenWerks> OK
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: How about installer?
<OvenWerks> I shall look to see if back to main page is possible/practical
<Eickmeyer> One idea I had was including ppa-purge which will completely remove the backports PPA and downgrade the packages instead of simply removing the PPA.
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: What do you think about that idea (I could implement it myself)?
<OvenWerks> That would be fine, it is the way it is because those were the commands I knew about.
<Eickmeyer> Cool.
<OvenWerks> I think return to list page is doable.
<OvenWerks> There is a call that populates it.
<Eickmeyer> Cool. Unrelated: I'm pushing the ppa-purge change.
<OvenWerks> I'll pull when you are done
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: I noticed that the script doesn't apt-get full-upgrade, when you add the PPA. Should we add that as well?
<OvenWerks> whats full-upgrade
<Eickmeyer> full-upgrade upgrades packages and removes any conflicts as well.
<OvenWerks> none of the PPA instructions suggest that
<OvenWerks> or does that install stuff?
<Eickmeyer> So, for instance, calf 0.90.2 conflicts with calf-ladspa. However, 0.60 (in bionic) does not. So, when upgrading with a simple "apt upgrade", it would hold-back from upgrading. With "apt full-upgrade" it would remove calf-ladspa while upgrading calf to 0.90.2.
<OvenWerks> Ya, but we don't do an upgrade even, do we?
<OvenWerks> should be an update if anything
<Eickmeyer> No, we don't, but we should. Update just updates the repo lists, it doesn't actually switch to the packages in the PPA.
<OvenWerks> The idea of a PPA is not to install everything so much as install what you want
<Eickmeyer> Unfortunately, what will happen is the update manager will catch it as updated packages and instruct the user to upgrade anyway. This would save them the step.
<OvenWerks> For example, I have an Adour project part way through, I add PPAs to get the new controls and I can no longer load my Ardour session
<Eickmeyer> It would only upgrade packages that are already installed, nothing that's not installed.
<OvenWerks> Yes, Ardour 5.12 to 6.0 could kill someone's project
<OvenWerks> or leave them asking how to downgrade
<OvenWerks> best use of a PPA is to enable, get wanted sw, disable.
<Eickmeyer> Nobody does that. If people add PPAs, they usually do it wholesale.
<Eickmeyer> Ok, so we'll leave it as-is and have the update manager do it anyway? Because that's exactly what will happen.
<OvenWerks> Not sure where to go with that one.
<OvenWerks> Ya, if they leave it on it will get updated
<Eickmeyer> I guarantee people will leave it on.
<OvenWerks> If we were to add update we would have to warn the user we were doing that with a list of what we were updating and leave a way to say no
<Eickmeyer> Then let's leave it as-is, because update-manager will handle that anyhow.
<OvenWerks> Add PPA does not suggest to me I am installing sw
<Eickmeyer> Now, this change I'm making with ppa-purge _will_ downgrade software.
<OvenWerks> Really? why?
<OvenWerks> If I dpkg install something the next update doesn't remove it
<Eickmeyer> Most people don't add PPAs for just one thing and then remove it. Maybe that's why PPAs were initially created, but that's not how they're practically used.
<Eickmeyer> The motivation for why I'm doing this is to allow people to upgrade from disco to eoan cleanly. Upgrading with the ppa's packages in-place could (not saying will) cause problems.
<Eickmeyer> ppa-purge's operation removes the PPAs and downgrades the packages to whatever is in the repo.
<OvenWerks> I think installer is not the place for that
<OvenWerks> what if the package only exists in the PPA, it vanishes?
<Eickmeyer> Yes, it would remove anything that isn't in the PPA. However, it would get added if it's part of the seed on the upgrade. Case in point: lsp-plugins
<OvenWerks> In software & updates->Other Software: I can remove a PPA (not just disable) and I don't loose or downgrade sw
<Eickmeyer> That's correct. However, the Kubuntu folk have had issues with that in the past and that's why they have people ppa-purge their backports before upgrading the distro.
<OvenWerks> I think installer is not the place for that
<Eickmeyer> Ok, then I'll leave it alone.
<OvenWerks> If done there, the user would need a popup telling them.
<OvenWerks>  or it should be a separate button "upgrade to *"
<Eickmeyer> OR, we could add another button ("Purge PPA").
<OvenWerks> at least
<OvenWerks> probably, "Remove Backports PPA" should be renamed to "disable Backports PPA"
<OvenWerks> and add to enable
<Eickmeyer> True.
<OvenWerks> Note about adding another button: The size of the app is set by the number of buttons x the width of the package list
<OvenWerks> I think...
<Eickmeyer> Shouldn't be an issue.
<OvenWerks> If we changed the order with the exit at the right side, the list could span two col.
<OvenWerks> So are you goin to add anything to installer right now? or should I start playing with it?
<Eickmeyer> Nah, go ahead. I'm prepping to add lsp-plugins and dpf-plugins to the list, but that's it.
<Eickmeyer> Shouldn't conflict with anything you're doing.
<OvenWerks> So, I am going to restyle so the list box remains, and the install stuff is always there if hidden. I will try to see if I can disable the PPA add if the PPA is already enabled.
<Eickmeyer> Ok
#ubuntustudio-devel 2019-07-19
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: re: installer, using add-apt-repository after add-apt-repository -r adds more than one source (disabled) copy.
<OvenWerks> I am thinking that on enabling the ppa I should first remove the file(s) in /etc/apt/sources.list.d/
<OvenWerks> I am wondering if it makes sense to remove the files for PPA with the disable button.
<OvenWerks> rather than using the -r
<OvenWerks> Hmm, forget that, I must have a new version of add-apt-repository since then. That problem has gone away
<OvenWerks> uploaded... and it started building before I could ask it to.
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: I guess to test this, I need to (after installing the kubuntu iso) install lowlat kernel, -lowlatency-settings, -controls, -installer from auto builds
<OvenWerks> in that order.
<OvenWerks> Maybe not, I can probably use the kubuntu I installed yesterday as is though...
<OvenWerks> I actually meant to do that in two commits, the second for disabling enable PPA if the ppa is already enabled and vis versa
<OvenWerks> It doesn't work.
<OvenWerks> fixed... but see another problem, ppa disable is not disabled while installing.
<OvenWerks> that should also be fixed, will check on next install test
<OvenWerks> ubuntustudio-controls does not show up in the stock KDE menu. Search does find it, so I guess KDE comes with no "Other" folder
<OvenWerks> hydrogen drumkits takes a long time to DL
<OvenWerks> Ah, controls is in settings
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Sorry, been out most of the day (still out, at my parents' house).
<Eickmeyer> As for -controls showing up somewhere, I'm not 100% sure where to put it if not settings.
<OvenWerks> Its fine. installer is still giving me trouble... but it is almost there
<Eickmeyer> coo coo
<OvenWerks> mostly I am rambling because it was taking so long to install packages with installer.
<Eickmeyer> hahaha
<Eickmeyer> Probably launchpad being slow. It does that a lot.
<Eickmeyer> Esp since PPAs are hosted directly by launchpad, whereas the main repos get mirrors.
<OvenWerks> got it. Now to remove the debugging code
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: using -installer does not seem to install ubuntustudio's icins themes
<OvenWerks> *icon
<Eickmeyer> Do we want that as a dependency? It should get installed with -branding-common.
<Eickmeyer> Meaning, it should be optional at best.
<OvenWerks> I think I installed branding
<Eickmeyer> Hmmm....
<OvenWerks> Aside from that kde's menu's (both old style and whisker style) don't show many icons at all
<OvenWerks> either there is a bug or I need to logout/in
<Eickmeyer> Might need a log-out/in, unless you check the Plasma System Settings.
 * Eickmeyer is cloning ubuntustudio-look to double-check some deps
<OvenWerks> I have the Studio backdrops.
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Just discovered that branding-common indeed does not pull in -icon-theme.
 * Eickmeyer big derp
<OvenWerks> Anyway, reboot time so I can push installer fixes
<Eickmeyer> Ok, I'm working on this -branding-common not depending on -icon-theme issue. Can't believe I missed that.
<OvenWerks> KDE needs a relogin just to find newly installed icons :P
<OvenWerks> maybe their gui installer runs some kind of reload for that and apt doesn't
<Eickmeyer> Most likely, though, I do know that if you're browsing the menu while something is installing, it'll let you know that it's updating.
<OvenWerks> Ok, installer has a new commit and is building too
<Eickmeyer> ok
<OvenWerks> It would like testing I guess. I have tested it here by installing Studio on top of kde
<OvenWerks> check for things like buttons being disabled when they should.
<OvenWerks> Just had a thought: the PPA en/disable could be one button seeing as only one of the two is ever enabled :)
<Eickmeyer> Oh! Nice thought!
<Eickmeyer> Definitely would cut-down on clutter.
<OvenWerks> I was goin to say it would leave room for the PPA purge button.
<OvenWerks> However,
<OvenWerks> From what you have said, that would remove any software added from the PPA which may take some time and should have feedback so it doesn't appear hung
<OvenWerks> basically, it would need prgress as much as the install did
<Eickmeyer> Considering it uses apt for its backend, that shouldn't be an issue as it should be able to use the same subroutine as the installer does when installing.
<OvenWerks> more like a sort of copy of it, but ya, the cod layout has been done, the same widgets can be used.
 * OvenWerks wonders if thge installer should be a tab in -controls ;)
<OvenWerks> BTW, installing installer in kde (and probably other flavours) sure pulls in a lot of packages.
<Eickmeyer> I'd say no to installer being a tab in -controls. For some reason, the word "ew" came to mind.
<Eickmeyer> Considering installer pulls-in -controls which pulls-in jackd2 ,that's expected.
<OvenWerks> ya, also tcl/tk.
<Eickmeyer> Yep.
<OvenWerks> Studio already has that for other applications
<Eickmeyer> Yep. Also, it's such a lightweight toolkit that if anybody objects to having extra toolkits like that I'll just say "E:Wontfix"
<OvenWerks> I actually like it better than python with gtk
<Eickmeyer> It's easier for sure. Not exactly uniform, though.
<OvenWerks> tell that to the gnome community...
<OvenWerks> who override the desktop theme cause they like it
<Eickmeyer> "Don't theme my apps!!!111!1!!1!!" -GNOME community
<OvenWerks> That is actually one of the things I like about kde
<Eickmeyer> Okay, bbl
<OvenWerks> o/
<OvenWerks> I think I am done with installer.
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Ok, got the changes. Ready for release? (we can always release another version later if necessary, I'm ok with that)
#ubuntustudio-devel 2019-07-20
<OvenWerks> So far as I know everything is ready for release... aside from any bugs that may be around.
<OvenWerks> from what I can tell, the chances of getting bug testing beyond the two of us is null till release
<OvenWerks> it is then not untill people use them daily that real bugs come in :(
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: ^^
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Cool. From my end I'm still waiting for someone to give raysession some love.
<OvenWerks> I really need to get back to my part finished Ardour next step
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: OK, before you do, does your work in installer fix bug 1825141?
<ubottu> bug 1825141 in ubuntustudio-installer "Installer could do with a back/home button" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1825141
<OvenWerks> Yes, it does not have a back button but rather goes back there by default
<Eickmeyer> Ok, will comment on the bug.
<OvenWerks> If I had known about the bug (remembered) I would have put fixes in the changelog
<Eickmeyer> No worries, I got your back. :)
<Eickmeyer> teward: If you're available, a new version of dpf-plugins dropped right before sil2100 accepted it into the archive. I figured we'd let him accept and then all it would take is a simple sync, debuild -S, dput on your part to update it.
<Eickmeyer> Changes mostly bugfixes, plus new copyright information which I got into d/copyright.
<teward> > a simple sync < does this mean new in Debian or new in Upstream?
<teward> if it's new in Debian then ti'd be a straight sync or a merge
<teward> if you mean Upstream and this isn't in Debian then it'd be you updating the repos, me pulling down, and then sponsoring it
<Eickmeyer> Sorry, upstream.
<Eickmeyer> No sync.
<Eickmeyer> I already updated the git repo
<Eickmeyer> So, s/sync/pull
<Eickmeyer> I would've done it myself, but err:noPPU
 * Eickmeyer is getting a new PPU application together for packageset and/or PPU on certain packages
<teward> heh
<teward> i'll look at it in a bit, i need a nap
<teward> ERR: tired
<Eickmeyer> Sleep well.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2019-07-21
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: if you have been monitoring #LAD, it seems RT is starting to roll into kernel upstream.
 * OvenWerks doesn't know if he is excited or not
<Eickmeyer> Huh! interesting. People are still going to look for an RT kernel, though. :P
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: from the sound of it, RT will be a switch or two in the build or even at boot. So an RT kernel would be mainline with RT turned on in the same way lowlatency is.
<OvenWerks> in my experience switching on lowlatency or RT is not the whole picture anyway. People have gotten so used to plug and play they can't even think any other way.
<OvenWerks> but RT/LL requires setup as well as just installing a new kernel.
<OvenWerks> USB audio is not RT friendly and the way mother boards are built doesn't help.
<OvenWerks> It is easy to end up with a mouse that has has higher priority than the USB audio
 * OvenWerks has tripping fingers
<Eickmeyer> Agreed.
<OvenWerks> https://github.com/jhernberg/udev-rtirq may help
<Eickmeyer> For my USB audio interface, I just make sure it's plugged-in directly to the computer and not via any hub.
<OvenWerks> It would seem to be able to prioritise an audio device above a mouse plugged into the same USB port... though I would imagine latency would still be higher.
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: yes, but... there are too many USB ports on computers that are part of an internal hub.
<OvenWerks> In fact pretty much all internal USB ports go through a "HUB" internally. Some only have one port to the outside world though.
<Eickmeyer> Agreed. USB 3.0+ tends to be better with that since even 2.0 is given more throughput.
<Eickmeyer> But older USB 2.0 systems tend to have more difficulty.
<OvenWerks> a USB3 hub with SUB2 ports should be the same as separate ports
<Eickmeyer> My system has all USB 3, which is probably part of why I don't have that much difficulty.
<OvenWerks> I would love to have some script/daemon that when it detects USB audio devices plugged in, checks to see if any other device uses the same port or even IRQ and warn the user that is not a great port to use.
<OvenWerks> but it seems it would need to detect USB2 over USB3
<Eickmeyer> My audio interface is USB 2, so yeah.
<Eickmeyer> I know that if I have WiFi on that there's some interference, but other USB devices don't usually interfere.
<OvenWerks> WIFI drivers are notorious for bad drivers
<OvenWerks> (having large time consuming atomic code)
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Can I tell nilshi to go F himself?  >:(
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: there is always a new release every 6 months. nilshi is one of those advocating monthly release so he should just understand that.
<Eickmeyer> Monthly release of what? Ubuntu?
<OvenWerks> 12:19 < nilshi> That is beyond my motivation though
<OvenWerks> plugins
<Eickmeyer> Yeah. He wants us to have NSM so bad, but he's not motivated to do anything. That's very telling. Wants everyone to do the work for him.
<OvenWerks> not really, more a lack of thought. He is willing to do things, but the reality linux lives with is that nothing happens without someone wanting to do things
<OvenWerks> Even those wanting to do things have a time elecment that requires prioritizing
<Eickmeyer> Well, he's trying his hardest to keep us from including RaySession. I can't include NSM because of NTK, and introducing an entire toolkit is beyond our scope/time.
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: if one can truely just switch direct from NTK to FLTK by just changing a few lines of code... that would quiet everyone.
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: I do see his point, if someone sends a session file along with everything else, it should be able to work on another system. RS does not and will never allow that. Having said that, Ardour/MixBus allows a session made in windows to be used Linux or macos. I don't see any linux sm ever being able to do that.
<OvenWerks> ( I guess lash did)
<OvenWerks> However, nsm (and rs) relies on the application storing it's last use exit point _somewhere_ so it ends up being a single system only deal anyway.
<OvenWerks> the best a transfered NSM session could do would be to restart the same applications and create the jack connections. Each application would show up just started (unless one had really bad luck in which case the wrong file would be loaded) and the user would still have to load the project they wanted and make any settings changes needed to go with it.
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: I did look at source for NSM... And it looks to use all FLtk stuff pretty much straight up. I don't see anything that must have NTK. I am not very good figuring out waf scripts...
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: The other thing is that assumes that everyone has the same setup, which I guarantee isn't even possible.
<OvenWerks> in my mind, that pretty much does away with any complaint about compatable. The only use case for being "more compatable" is to change SM part way through a project...
#ubuntustudio-devel 2020-07-13
<Eickmeyer[m]> OvenWerks: This came up in #lad. https://linuxmusicians.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=21728
<Eickmeyer[m]> What are your thoughts about adding that to the kernel command line for lowlatency?
<OvenWerks> That is something we can try ... the threadirqa, not the mitigations=off
<OvenWerks> The second would be ok for studio only machines.... don't use it when connected for sw updates.
<OvenWerks> but I wouldn't want it baked in to an ISO or package
<OvenWerks> I don't think I would even want it in a wiki or other docs
<Eickmeyer[m]> I was referring to threadirqs. I wouldn't want mitigations=off under any circumstances.
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer[m]: to be honest, I have not done any latency testing for some time now.
<OvenWerks> I don't really have time...
<Eickmeyer[m]> It's all good. I was just curious what your thoughts were about making it a default.
<Eickmeyer[m]> I mean, I could probably handle that much.
<OvenWerks> Certainly the D66 is a great device for testing this as it is known to be able to run at jack with 16/2 and so shows latency problems better than other devices
<OvenWerks> I don't know where we would put that to get it on the command line without trampling on top of other packages.
<OvenWerks> and without making it so the user could not find it.
<Eickmeyer[m]> It'd just go in lowlatency settings. It's just a kernel command that belongs in grub.
<Eickmeyer[m]> Either that or I can ask the kernel team to enable the threadirqs flag.
<OvenWerks> yuck!... ok headphone plugged in can be found with:
<OvenWerks> amixer -D hw:PCH cget iface=CARD,name='Front Headphone Jack'
<OvenWerks> The answer is:
<OvenWerks> numid=40,iface=CARD,name='Front Headphone Jack'
<OvenWerks>   ; type=BOOLEAN,access=r-------,values=1
<OvenWerks>   : values=on
<OvenWerks> My python alsa binding does not have that one, so read in the values from the command.
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer[m]: can you run the above command on your machine?
<Eickmeyer[m]> Oh boy... uh.... I could but it wouldn't be effective as the machine I'm on doesn't exactly do headphone recognition to begin with.
<Eickmeyer[m]> It's a desktop system.
<OvenWerks> :)
<OvenWerks> Imjuust ran upstairs to the old (32 bit) laptop... it says:
<OvenWerks> amixer: Control hw:PCH open error: No such device
<Eickmeyer[m]> Oof.
<OvenWerks> Which is not too bad... as the phone switching is hw based anyway.
<Eickmeyer[m]> At some level there's a software switch. I'd have to dig-out my laptop to experiment.
<OvenWerks> AH, but amixer -D hw:0 cget iface=CARD,name='Headphone Jack' works
<OvenWerks> So, there seem to be two variants... those that use Front and those that do not
<OvenWerks> The jack is front headphone and the speaker is speaker or front.
<OvenWerks> but this laptop does not have a HP level control. So make sure a headphone level exists before muting line out.
<OvenWerks> or speakers
<OvenWerks> this one has line out so it is safe... all control changes fail :)
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer[m]: if you are experimenting... alsactl monitor
<OvenWerks> will show changes and give the name.
<Eickmeyer[m]> Ok. One problem: ERR:WifeOnVacation
<Eickmeyer[m]> Trying to spend some time with her and my son and less time doing dev work this week. :)
<OvenWerks> Thats ok. I think I can figure it out
<Eickmeyer[m]> OK. Sorry I can't be of much help right now.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2020-07-15
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer[kde]1: do you happen to remember on a laptop in alsamixer is it Speaker or Speakers?
<Eickmeyer[m]> Usually "Speakers".
<Eickmeyer[m]> Probably because most laptops have stereo. :)
<OvenWerks> I guess if it is Headphone I would expect Speaker but Speakers makes more sense.
<OvenWerks> My laptop only has Lineout... headphone switches in the plug.
<Eickmeyer[m]> I need to break-out my laptop. This attempted vacation isn't working out so well for me. Drama in the Fedora KDE Special Interest Group, followed by software releases... bad timing, I guess.
<OvenWerks> nsm drama is fun too.
<Eickmeyer[m]> Oh yes. That. Yeah, I told nilshi that he needs to publish those emails somewhere as evidence that Non is toxic.
<Eickmeyer[m]> I unretired/now maintain the Non suite in Fedora, and I really want to orphan it, but I want to orphan it and let it die. I need evidence to show how abusive Jonathan is.
<OvenWerks> I gave up on non-* when the mixer never got lv2 (because it is not good enough or something)
<OvenWerks> That makes the whole non-echosystem depricated...
<Eickmeyer[m]> Yep. I like RaySession, but I think with everyone focusing on NewSM it's going to get really good.
<OvenWerks> raysession will improve as well
<Eickmeyer[m]> Looks like ardour 6.2 just syncd, is building, and on its way to proposed.
<OvenWerks> good
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer[kde]1: it appears to be "Speaker" :)
<Eickmeyer[m]> Interesting.
<OvenWerks> from the pastes from the other channel.
<Eickmeyer[m]> Reading your dialog there, I'm even more tempted now than ever to remove qjackctl from the seed. It seems it's doing more harm than good because people are looking for it rather than using the utility we provide and document.
<OvenWerks> they have mixed the use of both.
<OvenWerks> -controls shows it startd jack.
<Eickmeyer[m]> Exactly. People keep doing that, and the two utilities are becoming less and less compatible.
<Eickmeyer[m]> I'm also tempted to make studio-controls conflict with qjackctl just to keep people who don't know what they're doing from using it.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2020-07-16
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer[kde]1: playing with firewire today, I think I have finished the headphone stuff.
<Eickmeyer[m]> Nice. :)
<OvenWerks> but the internal external speaker thing, I don't know.
<OvenWerks> I don't have one to play with.
<OvenWerks> I am going to have to move my fw card or my M66
<OvenWerks> they are both on the same irq :P
<OvenWerks> I may move the AudioPCI to irq 16 as it only does MIDI so it can share.
<OvenWerks> but if I try to start a zita-ajbridge for the D66 while the audiofire is jackmaster the firewire kernel modules lock up.
<OvenWerks> I think jack crashes and doesn't release the device
<OvenWerks> interesting, this page seems to indicate that USB audio is best at 48000, 96000, and maybe a few 192000... https://wiki.linuxaudio.org/wiki/list_of_jack_frame_period_settings_ideal_for_usb_interface
<Eickmeyer[m]> Yeah, because it has to do with the 1ms multiplier. Makes sense.
<Eickmeyer[m]> I could
<Eickmeyer[m]> 've sworn that site had 44100 at one point.
<OvenWerks> It still does... one or two of them are 44k1
<OvenWerks> However, for setting up zita-ajbridge where SRC is happening anyway, USB devices could all be set to 48k even if jack is running at 44k1
<OvenWerks> Huh, Ordered parts on tuesday for my mixer (mackie cr1604) because the PS has >5v ripple... got here today... even with a border crossing.
<OvenWerks> I am replacing all the caps in the ps plus two resitors that are quite dark.
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer[kde]1: in other news, moved my D66 card to a new slot (no shared irq) and redid rtirq. I can now add my D66 and an extra device without crashing the audiofire :)
<Eickmeyer[m]> Oh cool!
<OvenWerks> moved my AudioPCI to irq16 which it shares with my PATA to SATA bridge. It will only be used for MIDI anyway.
 * OvenWerks doesn't know what to do with 16 i/o...
<OvenWerks> I only have 8 Mic pre.
<OvenWerks> (the cr1604 only has 6 plus I have another stereo one.
<OvenWerks> The D66 is actually higher priority than the audiofire.
<Eickmeyer[m]> Yeah, that's a lot of channels. You could almost turn your computer into a mixer with the right midi controller.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2020-07-17
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer[kde]1: did does actually have a basic mixer inside... level, mute, pan and solo
<Eickmeyer[m]> Oh, cool.
<pataky83> heloo
<pataky83> please what is password on ubuntu studio live 20.04?
<pataky83> thanks 
<pataky83> kokoti
<krytarik> Eickmeyer: Just updated the whitelist entry for the cdimage error mails on the devel ML btw - so it can continue nagging everybody on it and fill their inbox with a few megs every time! XD
<Eickmeyer[m]> krytarik: hahahahahha Thanks.
<krytarik> You are welcome! >_<
<Eickmeyer[m]> krytarik: The ball is in the release team's court on focal anyhow. They said they'd fix it. I have yet to see any results. I'm on "vacation" otherwise I'd be nagging them.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2020-07-18
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer[kde]1: for reference, I think alsainput on the support channel was the person who gave us the "is input only" button for auto add USB.
<Eickmeyer[m]> Probably. They seem to be describing the same problem.
<OvenWerks> the noise when using controls is what I remember
<Eickmeyer[m]> Yep, something nobody else has ever experienced, which tells me it's 100% a hardware issue on his end.
<OvenWerks>  At least the current problem is their HW. My guess is still dynamic mic in a made for condenser input.
<OvenWerks> All the "profesional recording mics" that look like large diaphram Mics for about $30-ish come with an xlr to computer jack.
<OvenWerks> those cables don't work with dynamic mics I would guess and because the 5v ends up with no load... unplugged
<Eickmeyer[m]> I have an XLR-USB cable that works OK, but it's nice to have an analog gain for the dynamic mics.
<Eickmeyer[m]> The XLR-USB doesn't work for condenser.
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer[kde]1: do you know if amixer is a part of alsa-tools?
<Eickmeyer[m]> It should be.
<Eickmeyer[m]> !info alsamixer
<ubottu> Package alsamixer does not exist in disco
<Eickmeyer[m]> !info alsamixer focal
<ubottu> Package alsamixer does not exist in focal
<Eickmeyer[m]> Must be.
<Eickmeyer[m]> I mean, must be part of alsa-tools.
<OvenWerks> no, it seems to be a part alsa base
<Eickmeyer[m]> Ohhhhh. Ok.
<OvenWerks> looking at installed files in alsatools
<OvenWerks> There are two packages alsa-tools and alsa-tools-gui
<OvenWerks> it is in alsa-utils
<OvenWerks> ok.
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer[kde]1: i don't know if alsa-utils was a -controls dep (it should be)
<Eickmeyer[m]> We can add it.
<OvenWerks> however, one of the uses of amixer in controls I am switching to use hdajacksensetest
<OvenWerks> which is in alsatools
<OvenWerks> *alsa-tools
<OvenWerks> I think that will provide a better, simpler and less error pron method of detecting headphone plug events. (and maybe speaker events on some laptops)
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer[kde]1: I am wrong, I only use amixer in the one place, so adding alsa-util is not needed (won't be needed) but alsa-tools will be. I will add this in the changelog
<Eickmeyer[m]> Ok, sounds good.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2020-07-19
<OvenWerks> it appears I can not use hdajacksensetest as it requires sudo/pkexec which is not possible in a process that runs background and auto starts at session start. So amixer it is.
