#ubuntu-uk 2011-04-25
<popey> heh
<exobuzz> get some famous names in there too, like 4-mat etc
<exobuzz> and ziphoid (he was the radio guy on the video stream)
<exobuzz> (famous on the demoscene ;-) )
<popey> well, I'm glad I compiled that demo :)
<exobuzz> i guess ill have to wait until i have better working 3d heh
<popey> http://popey.com/~alan/gord_cvis_demo.ogv
<popey> looks a lot smoother in real life
<exobuzz> thanks!
<exobuzz> wow. trippy!
<exobuzz> gord, are you related to jeff minter? :)
<popey> haha
<gord> its the hair ;)
<exobuzz> heh, aah so you look like him too ? ;-) nice demo effect - i can see you made sure you used all possible colours in the visible spectrum
<gord> its actually grayscale, then i use a shader to map it to a randomly chosen row from data/images/grad.png
<gord> all the gl shaders are in data/shader_src if anyone has any interested in how those work
 * exobuzz never looked at shader code. scared to ;-)
<Azelphur> went to paintball today for my birthday, got shot in the chest and stained my shirt, went to get KFC later and the cashier thought I was drunk and had vomited on myself \o/
<popey> haha
<exobuzz> lol
<exobuzz> happy birthday too!
<Azelphur> ty :P
<exobuzz> did they still serve you their filthy yet tasty chicken ?
<Azelphur> yea, I said I got shot
<Azelphur> she gave me even more strange looks :(
<exobuzz> normally people are sick on themselves after visiting kfc not before ;-)
<Azelphur> haha
<Azelphur> It was pretty funny at paint ball too, they all made me wear a fluorescent vest to ensure I got shot at a lot :D
<popey> :)
<Azelphur> only I think it backfired because I only got shot once, I reckon everyone thought I was a marshal or something.
<exobuzz> Azelphur, bruised ?
<exobuzz> aah ok. single shot to the chest eh
<gord> maybe you are just that good?
<Azelphur> gord that's what I said :D
<Azelphur> I did get quite a few headshots, It's good fun getting people right in the visor so they can't see >:3
 * gord is visualising mike from spaced good
<exobuzz> http://www.inventgeek.com/Projects/paintball-turret/Overview.aspx
<Azelphur> exobuzz: haha yea, the chest shot didn't even leave a mark, I got a small mark on my shoulder, and I probably have a big bruise on my back from where my cousin shot me (in the back, while he was on my team xD), lol
<exobuzz> Azelphur, hehe
<popey> oops, still had gords demo running on another desktop :)
<popey> only 10% cpu tho
<Azelphur> exobuzz: someone in our party got paint in the eyes though
<exobuzz> popey, im sure you got a few copies of minecraft going too ;-)
<popey> heh, not on this box
<Azelphur> got shot in the air holes for the mask and the paint went through and all over his eyes/mouth
<popey> oh, yes I do :)
<exobuzz> lol
<gord> its damn efficient :) low powered hardware keeps you honest
<Azelphur> exobuzz: and my cousin is bruised to hell, he ran out in the open and started doing the chicken dance. xD
 * exobuzz swaps gord's pc for a spectrum
<exobuzz> there you go
<exobuzz> Azelphur, sounds like a fun day!
<Azelphur> indeed \o/
<gord> unity - 128k edition
<exobuzz> <3 8 bit
<exobuzz> old pic with my babies http://www.exotica.org.uk/wiki/File:BIT_2002_027_25.jpg
<Azelphur> exobuzz: reminds me of when I was about 8, my mum said "Most kids your age have a teddy bear, you have a gameboy and a pack of cookies"
<exobuzz> sounds like you got things right ;-)
<exobuzz> gameboy > teddy bear
<Azelphur> indeed.
<Seeker`> hai
<hamitron> bah
 * hamitron grumbles
<Seeker`> hmm?
<hamitron> bored with all the music I queue up
<hamitron> tbh, just bored
<matti> ;]
<Seeker`> anyone know someone by the name of "James Harrison"?
<ali1234> i figured out how to reproduce the firefox focus bug
<ali1234> i also found that minecraft runs about 50% slower on natty
<ali1234> oops i mean 50% faster
<ali1234> oops i mean 100% faster :/
<jibadeeha> i sometimes wonder if having the hard drive power down when idle puts wear and tear and it is perhaps best to leave it switched on all the time
<popey> morning
<popey> jibadeeha: http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Minimizing_Hard_Disk_Drive_Failure_and_Data_Loss is probably worth reading
<jibadeeha> thanks popey  ... will check that out
<dwatkins> hi folks, and happy bank holiday
<popey> :)
<daubers> Morning
<alex__> :)
<Pendulum> morning
<dwatkins> hiya Pendulum et al
<peejay1977> Hey morning all, anyone know of a bug in Ubuntu 11.04 Beta 2 that causes Vuze to crash when searching? I've done a preliminary Google and found nothing...
 * dwatkins discovers a webcam on Abbey Road and watches tourists being silly on the pedestrian crossing
<tugrik> URL dwatkins ?
<dwatkins> http://www.abbeyroad.com/visit/ tugrik
<tugrik> yeah, sorry, took me google and five seconds....
<dwatkins> no worries, I might possibly have been referring to a different webcam on Abbey Road ;)
<dwatkins> is anyone near by who can confirm it's live?
<jonsaint> hi all. can anyone help me with firestarter
 * AlanBell waits for jonsaint to ask a question
<brobostigon> good afternoon everyone.
<MartijnVdS> \o brobostigon
<brobostigon> good afternoon MartijnVdS :)
<jonsaint> sorry alan. didnt see your message then
<jonsaint> what it is it keeps going red and when i check what it is, the protocol is a tcp (what ever that is
<jonsaint> only been having the problem since i moved house a week ago
<popey> any of you lot do bitcoin mining?
<MartijnVdS> is that something in minecraft?
<brobostigon> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitcoin ?
<jonsaint> AlanBell, sent you a message alan on here
<fujisano> Hello, i am having sound issues in 10.10 when i play a video there is no sound
<fujisano> any idea what the issue might be?
<MartijnVdS> your speakers could be off
<fujisano> i have no idea where to even start troubleshooting
<MartijnVdS> or not plugged in
<fujisano> i hear system sounds
<MartijnVdS> or the volume could be muted
<MartijnVdS> or set to 0
<MartijnVdS> which player are you using
<fujisano> now it works again
<fujisano> i dont get it
<fujisano> the default one and vlc
<ali1234> popey: i ran the generator for about 3 months, got no result
<fujisano> and the sound has gone again
<fujisano> i dont get it :(
<MartijnVdS> fujisano: is it only specific videos or programs?
<fujisano> videos  i think
<fujisano> avi videos
<MartijnVdS> with what kind of audio? which player are you using?
<fujisano> vlc and the default player in ubuntu
<MartijnVdS> vlc should work
<AlanBell> jonsaint: is it stopping you from doing something?
<AlanBell> jonsaint: tcp is the standard internet protocol really, the port number would be interesting perhaps
<fujisano> martijnVdS ye should but vlc and the default player both stop playing audio after a few minutes so i am guessing it's an ubuntu specific issue
<jonsaint> ports start at 38299 and go up
<MartijnVdS> fujisano: ah, you didn't say that symptom before
<shauno> fujisano: is this on a mac by chance?
<shauno> if it is, check to see if it's just muted.  for some odd reason, the newer ones keep muting themselves
<AlanBell> jonsaint: could be anything then
<AlanBell> jonsaint: running skype?
<jonsaint> no. dont use skype
<fujisano> shauno no the pc :<
<fujisano> my bedroom pc
<shauno> ah ok
<fujisano> i have no sound issues with spotify it's only with avi's
<fujisano> weird
<fujisano> any ideas how to tackle this issue?
<fujisano> im googling but getting nowhere...
<fujisano> ok i give up :<
 * brobostigon read back, to see if he canhelp.
<fujisano> i believe the gods are trying to prevent me from gorging myself with documentaries
<brobostigon> fujisano: have a look in vlc, and see if its outputting to pulseaudio or alsa, ?
<fujisano> ok thanks
<fujisano> it's outputting on default
<brobostigon> pulseaudio can kill it self, if it is using massive resources.
<brobostigon> default couldbe either, what other ooptions is it giving you?
<fujisano> no clue what the default is :
<fujisano> ;/
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: default is pulse if pulse is running
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: ok, hmm.
<MartijnVdS> â¥ pulse
<fujisano> how can i check this btw?
<brobostigon> fujisano: is thepulseaudio server using alot of resources when you try and playsound through it,
<fujisano> ok in system monitor i am seeing a process for pulseaudio
<MartijnVdS> ooh, like the "burning CD" indicator
<MartijnVdS> fujisano: but is it eating lots of CPU when playing sound (as in, 70-80% or more)
<fujisano> 2 %
<brobostigon> fujisano: when you try and play sound via pulseaudio what kind of resources does that process use up?
<popey> ali1234: yeah, I haven't found a single one yet. been using the gpu to do the mining
<fujisano> pulseaudio is currently sleeping
<brobostigon> fujisano: try and play some sound through it, and see whatresources it uses up.
<fujisano> how do i set the default output to pulse?
<MartijnVdS> fujisano: the default IS pulse, as long as pulseaudio is running
<fujisano> it's running but apparently sleeping
<brobostigon> fujisano: you can check in vlc's preferences,under audio, and output modules.
<fujisano> brobostigon:  i did and it said default
<brobostigon> fujisano: pulseaudio it is then, as MartijnVdS said.
<fujisano> ok done
<brobostigon> fujisano: play something with some sound in vlc, and see what resources the pulseaudio server uses up.
<fujisano> i think i need a new pc for ubuntu this one is so old
<fujisano> 3%
<popey> ali1234: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FThX1cDg-tg  *boggle*
<brobostigon> fujisano: that is with vlcplaying music or something, how much cpu? and ram?
<fujisano> i think it's working better now thanks brobostigon and martijn
<fujisano> vlc 11%
<kingofswords> hi can any1 recommend a good download manager for ubuntu...like jloader?
<brobostigon> fujisano: keep an eye on the pulseaudio servers resouces, it can be a masisve hog sometimes.
<fujisano> ok ty i will keep that in mind :)
<brobostigon> fujisano: because, when it cant get anymore resourcs to run. and canjust fail, all onits own.
<fujisano> ok i see
<brobostigon> fujisano: you might want to try and change vlc'soutput module to alsa, and see what happens.
<popey> kingofswords: gwget, kget, tucan manager, fatrat, uget...
<kingofswords> hi popey...are they better than jloader...and are they java based?
<popey> kingofswords: i have never used any of them (or jloader) I dont use download managers
<kingofswords> ok ill take a look
<kingofswords> thx
<AlanBell> I don't get why people on broadband use download managers
<AlanBell> just seem like something from the modem days to me
<popey> i do
<popey> if you want to download a gazillion files
<ali1234> popey: last time i checked it costs about Â£20 to run a PC for a year, 1 bitcoin = 1 dollar
<popey> or download files from multiple hosts
<ali1234> in other words mining bitcoins costs you money
<popey> ali1234: yeah, and that guy must be running up quite a leccy bill
<popey> plus he bought a load of new kit to do it
<ali1234> if you want them, just buy them on the exchange
<popey> yeah
<ali1234> for that rig he could have bought several hundred
<kingofswords> whats a bitcoin?
<ali1234> lolcash
<ali1234> that's what they should have called it
<AlanBell> a cryptographic ecash scheme
<popey> :)
<ali1234> space bux
<popey> OMGDollars
<ali1234> except that space bux are probably worth more
<ali1234> seriously you'd make more money by becoming a gold farmer
<jibadeeha> ls
<jibadeeha> whoops wrong window
<gord> cd secretplansforworlddomination
<gord> oops, wrong window
<BigRedS> /etc/init.d/robot-uprising start
<ali1234> awesome, writing to a USB drive now freezes the whole computer for the duration of the write operation
<shauno> it's a shame skynet was using amazon.  really ruined the whole thing
<directhex> ali1234, linux IO sucks
<ali1234> this is a regression
<ali1234> i have never seen dd make the mouse pointer stop moving before
<ali1234> well not recently anyway
<ali1234> bug 770258
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 770258 in linux (Ubuntu) "Extremely high latency when writing to USB drives." [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/770258
<dwatkins> I'm amazed my Macbook is still backing up ok via USB.
<dwatkins> i.e. the server's disk is attached via USB and I'm backing up to the server which runs Ubuntu 10.10
<exobuzz> ali1234, got SCHED_AUTOGROUP enabled in kernel ?
<ali1234> i dunno
<ali1234> i'm using natty
<exobuzz> check in /boot/config*
<ali1234> CONFIG_SCHED_AUTOGROUP=y
<exobuzz> worth building with that for better io/cpu sharing etc. can help when writing large amounts to slow usb devices etc
<exobuzz> k
<ali1234> it's the 200 line patch right?
<exobuzz> yeh
<ali1234> well it seems to me that it has made it significantly worse
<exobuzz> i guess disabling it would be worth a try then
<ali1234> i never had this problem on older kernels
<ali1234> i had similar but no where near as bad problems
<exobuzz> would be interested if things are better without it - you might have found a specific problem
<ali1234> but mainly due to swap being really slow
<ali1234> i think there is something wrong with my motherboard actually
<ali1234> eg i get page fault latency of 1.3 seconds
<exobuzz> echo "0" >/proc/sys/vm/swappiness ?
<popey> just seen someone in another channel say their mint system locks up when it writes to swap
<popey> :S
<ali1234> so any time i hit swap the computer locks for half an hour, even if i only used a few hundred mb
<ali1234> oh good, it's not just me then
<ali1234> ask em what motherboard they've got
<popey> will do
<ali1234> anyway, i've not seen this problem on USB drives before, only swap
<exobuzz> ali1234, telling the machine to avoid swap might help as above
<ali1234> i tried swappiness = 0
<ali1234> it doesn't make much difference
<ali1234> i have 4GB
<popey> Gigabyte P55-UD3
<ali1234> to only time i use swap is when i really need to use swap
<popey> ^ ali1234
<exobuzz> also try mem compaction / page merging / transparent huge page support etc things that affect stuff like that and see if they make a difference
<ali1234> popey: ok that's nothing like mine, not even same cpu
<ali1234> so i conclude that linux has finally jumped the shark
<popey> heh
<exobuzz> worth building 2.6.39 in case it was a glitch they have fixed
<ali1234> exobuzz: i shouldn't have to fiddle with that stuff, this is supposed to be linux for human beings
<exobuzz> (rc4+)
<popey> +2
<exobuzz> ali1234, yeh but im speaking about locating the issue, as there is obviously a problem
<exobuzz> if we can narrow it down or find something that stops it, then you have a point to start from
<ali1234> it's been a problem since... well since intrepid basically
<ali1234> nobody seems to have the problem but me
<popey> I'm finding Unity 2d very usable.
<ali1234> or maybe nobody else ever even uses swap
<exobuzz> i spent 6 months debugging a usb issue on a hosted machine. finally found a commit frmo 2.6.27 that broke the usb .. was a pain but now i know how to fix it, and hopefully can get it sorted in future kernels
<ali1234> i suspect the latter
<dwatkins> what's needed to fix it, exobuzz?
<exobuzz> popey, i still dont get the "big icons" - on 800x600 they actuall are too big and dont fit in the screen, it should surely use screensize to work out how it should do it
<AlanBell> what hardware do people have that won't do openGL at all?
<exobuzz> dwatkins, https://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=32432
<lubotu3> bugzilla.kernel.org bug 32432 in USB "USB Disconnects / resets after commit b963801164618e25fbdc0cd452ce49c3628b46c8" [Normal,New]
<ali1234> AlanBell: do you count opengl es?
<AlanBell> counting stuff that won't do Unity 3d
<ali1234> plenty of stuff won't run unity
<popey> my desktop is well capable of unity 3d, but unity 3d is painfully slow
<dwatkins> thanks exobuzz
<popey> so i have been trying unity 2d
<popey> and it's quite skippy
<popey> as in fast
<exobuzz> dwatkins, there is another alternative patch from usb dev i need to try on the kernel usb mailinglist but for now since it is a production machine, just having it work is good enough
<AlanBell> I am surprised
<exobuzz> popey, here's one, how can i enable compiz + unity 2d
<popey> surprised at what?
<exobuzz> popey, if you choose unity 2d from natty, it disables compiz. do you have a fix ?
<AlanBell> that 2d is faster than 3d
<popey> i dont want compiz
<popey> compiz is slow
<BigRedS> AlanBell: really?
<exobuzz> popey, i do ;-) hehe
<ali1234> 2d is always faster than 3d
<popey> I hope you're happy together
<popey> :)
<dwatkins> exobuzz: I suspect my problems are related to an external USB disk enclosure and the disk idling, but it's interesting to see that bug nonetheless
<ali1234> don;t listen to anyone who tells you GPUs are all that
<ali1234> i;ve done experiments with openCL and a entry level GPU is slower than the CPU even for massively parallel tasks that should be optimal for it
<popey> alt-tab in unity2d is near-instant, much like my crappy old xp machine at work
<popey> alt-tab in unity3d is painful
<exobuzz> dwatkins, with this change/revert, my usb device is stable with no disconnects. without it, its flakey. i suspect the chipset might be out of spec, or the kernel was trying to be "too quick". of course. manufacturers often only test with windows im suer
<AlanBell> I have always found 3d to be a lot quicker than 2d for doing things like moving windows about
<directhex> opencl has some VERY specific issues
<directhex> treating a GPU as a CPU is doomed to failure
<popey> I am using nvidia though, which makes me a) an idiot and b) evil and c) not worth considering
<popey> Note: There may be small amounts of sarcasm
<ali1234> it's lucky then that opencl does not treat it as a cpu!
<exobuzz> popey, amd ?
<popey> intel c2d
<exobuzz> i have intel gfx
<directhex> the killer is the time taken to move data to the GPU, and take data back from it.
<ali1234> yes, agreed
<AlanBell> hmm, alt+tab is instant for me
<directhex> although clearly if you're using a GPU which has cores measures in dozens, not hundreds -> thousands, then it's not going to set the world on fire
<directhex> plus those gpus have slow memory access
<exobuzz> directhex, my gpu is on the same silicon as the cpu
<exobuzz> sandy bridge
<directhex> exobuzz, yeah, but intel graphics struggles to go beyond the dozen polygon mark
<ali1234> well all i know is that for large array addition, 1 core of my phenom 2 beats my gt240
<directhex> intel graphics more or less draws a desktop
<exobuzz> directhex, sandy bridge isnt actually that bad, although the bleeding edge git stuff for it sometimes doesnt work :) glxgears didnt work yesterday heh
<directhex> exobuzz, yes, yes it is that bad.
<ali1234> it's a pity that nvidia can't write drivers that actually work
<directhex> a 6-year-old low-end geforce will still outperform it
<exobuzz> directhex, http://www.notebookcheck.net/typo3temp/pics/1166b97581.gif
<ali1234> as it is, intel cards beat nvidia in some situations
<ali1234> where some situations = anything but FPS games
<ali1234> i want to see someone do a benchmark based on "time taken to render a launchpad bug page in firefox"
<directhex> or sports or strategy or rpg
<exobuzz> directhex, http://www.notebookcheck.net/Review-Intel-HD-Graphics-3000-graphics-solution.43710.0.html
<exobuzz> directhex, actually it's quicker than you think then
<ali1234> time taken on nvidia gt240 = 10 seconds
<ali1234> time taken on intel pineview = too short to measure
<Tommeh> 'Nvidia' is not the fairest term on many occasions, however.
<directhex> "it competes at a level of entry-level graphics cards like the Geforce G 310M, the GT 220M or the ATI HD5470"
<Tommeh> Given that the 'free' drivers are buggy in certain cases (particularly in 3D)
<exobuzz> yes, but you said a 6 year old low end card will outperform it, which isnt true
<ali1234> lol
<ali1234> 6 year old low end nvidia card is what, a 440 mx?
<directhex> your timescale is out slightly
<AlanBell> so what won't run unity?
<directhex> 6600gt, or thereabouts
<ali1234> directhex: 6600 is not low end
<exobuzz> it wasnt low end back then
<exobuzz> yeh
<ali1234> directhex: 6600 is the point where spending any more money make you an idiot
<exobuzz> and a x700 from around 6 yerrs ago is not as quick as it too
<directhex> a gf4 mx is closer to 9 years old
<directhex> and was rebadged gf2 silicon anyway
<exobuzz> im not arguing my gpu is better than a Â£100 nvidia card, but its quite ok for built in graphics
<exobuzz> and the video decoding acceleration is very decent
<directhex> wake me when i can play minecraft on my laptop's i5
<ali1234> i would imagine that will happen some time after notch learns how to code
<mfraz74> i'm using intel video and with 10.10 the startup splash screen was fine, but now with 11.04 it is plain ascii although the shutdown screen is fine
<AlanBell> I thought the on motherboard intel graphics were supposed to be rubbish and anyone serious would have an nvidia or AMD graphics card
<popey> thats the theory for 3d gaming, yes
<ali1234> onboard intel is plenty to run unity
<ali1234> in fact unity runs a lot better on intel than on nvidia
<popey> +1
<exobuzz> AlanBell, compiz etc is very quick here. much better than on my x700 ati from my last machine (6 year old card)
<ali1234> due to it not being a FPS game
<directhex> or rpg, or strategy, or sport, or peggle
<ali1234> rubbish
<ali1234> we all know that nvidia optimize only for the most popular game
<exobuzz> brb. restarting x
<ali1234> interestingly the new nvidia driver is about twice as fast when running minecraft
<ali1234> but everything else is slower
<AlanBell> so how old does an nvidea/amd card have to be to not run unity?
<directhex> intel's built-in graphics for pre-sandy-bridge i5 (4000-series? whatevs) chokes on civilization 5. or 4, for that matter.
<AlanBell> I know S3 openchrome won't
<directhex> 2 is fine
<AlanBell> and the intel from pre 2004ish might be a problem now
<AlanBell> but I am going to retest my Dell from 2002 later, see if that works again
<ali1234> you won't have a problem with: nvidia, intel
<AlanBell> it did compiz on Hardy, then the drivers changed and it stopped
<directhex> not looking forward to 11.04 :/
<ali1234> you will have problems with everything else
<ali1234> ati will claim tosupport 3d and then not work properly, because it never does
<ali1234> powervr based tech would work, if you can find a driver
<directhex> fglrx has improved rapidly over the years
<directhex> it actually boots and is stable, which is a big change
<exobuzz> ati dropped support for my card benig too old before their drivers even worked properly heh
<exobuzz> being
<ali1234> everything else doesn't do 3d
<exobuzz> o2 joggler can do "1080p h264" decoding in hardware with little cpu usage.. shame its res is only 800x480 :)
<exobuzz> (pwoervr)
<exobuzz> powervr even
<AlanBell> does that do compiz?
<exobuzz> yeh
<directhex> gma500?
<AlanBell> directhex: good one
<exobuzz> directhex, same gfx chipset but i think it is us15w or whatever or called something different in the joggler
<ali1234> not quite, it's EMGD
<ali1234> same powervr core, yeah
<ali1234> and so same issues with drivers
<exobuzz> only emgd supports a "modern" xorg so i use emgd 1.5.2 with xorg 1.9
<exobuzz> and an older libva
<exobuzz> gpu is "Intel SCH US15W"
<exobuzz> http://ark.intel.com/product.aspx?id=35444
<exobuzz> now that I have brought up the joggler, i can mention i updated all the linux distribution images i provide yesterday http://joggler.exotica.org.uk/
<exobuzz> :)
<popey> ali1234: seen a third person mention lockup writing to swap now
<ali1234> popey: where?
<ali1234> and how come no one ever mentions it here?
<popey> in #twil, he's gone afk for now
<jibadeeha> can't wait for this ... http://www.retrogamescollector.com/sinclair-zx-spectrum-to-be-re-released-in-2012/
<ali1234> hey, do you wanna do a test?
<popey> sure
<ali1234> do a "big" screenshot in minecraft
<exobuzz> jibadeeha, whats wrong with an old spectrum ? :)
<popey> define big
<ali1234> then try to convert it to a png in imagemagick
<ali1234> oh, the one you get when you press shift-f2 or whatever
<jibadeeha> exobuzz, mine is broken as i once pulled out the interface ii while switched on
<ali1234> the one that is 20 gigapixels
<popey> didnt know you could do that
<exobuzz> jibadeeha, woops.. they are still quite cheap though on ebay'
<ali1234> anyway do one of those and then try to shrink it down with imagemagick
<directhex> spectrum is too mainstream
<directhex> get a dragon!
<ali1234> this is guaranteed to use all your ram and a few gigs of swap
<exobuzz> directhex, i have a dragon 32 ;-) got a dragon 64 ?
<popey> ok, one mo
<jibadeeha> exobuzz, tempting to buy an old one ... could i really go back to using a tape recorder
<ali1234> now, on a decent OS, this process would be able to churn away in the background without impacting on foreground processes
<ali1234> if you want, run it with ionice and nice
<exobuzz> jibadeeha, compact flash / sd cart ?
<jibadeeha> i always wanted a dragon or bbc
<ali1234> when i run it, it locks up the computer until it finishes running
<popey> alan@wopr:~/.minecraft/screenshots$ file 2011-04-25_14.49.56.png
<popey> 2011-04-25_14.49.56.png: PNG image data, 1680 x 1026, 8-bit/color RGB, non-interlaced
<popey> is that big?
<ali1234> no
<exobuzz> i made a "demo" on the dragon. loose use of the term, it was a spaceship and some circles in basic, and erm you played the music on the casette (it had casette audio passthrough which was cool). i was only young though
<popey> how do you do it then?
<ali1234> well apparently theyve removed it
<popey> gimmie a big file?
<popey> or should i try and scale one up?
<ali1234> i can't they are 6 GB
<popey> haha
<ali1234> you can write 6GB of /dev/urandom to a file i guess
<ali1234> and then try to process it
<jibadeeha> exobuzz, i remember learning Z80 assembly language but wasn't very good at it and it was hard without an assembler .. how times have changed
<exobuzz> jibadeeha, 3e 02 ;-)
<exobuzz> ld a,02 i think.
<exobuzz> thats all i remember.
<jibadeeha> exobuzz, lol oh yeah those 8-bit registers
<exobuzz> them were the days
<exobuzz> <3 spectrum
<exobuzz> i love it when this channels gets all 8 bit
<exobuzz> much more interesting than all this ubuntu nonsense ;-)
<jibadeeha> i had a SInclair QL before i finally bought a PC .. .loved that computer
<exobuzz> i got 2 of them too. heh crappy microdrive tech
<exobuzz> nice basic though
<exobuzz> and fast.. 68008 cpu
<jibadeeha> yeah excellent computer but let down by the twin microdrives
<exobuzz> i lost all my code on microdrive cart. now i got a plus d but, im cross i never made tape backups
<jibadeeha> they were rubbish but a god send when all you knew before was the tape recorder
<exobuzz> yeh
<exobuzz> http://malus.exotica.org.uk/~buzz/magazine/speccy/yspp2.jpg - second letter - last of my remaining speccy code
<exobuzz> i was very chuffed when i got this in, was 15 then i think
<exobuzz> they missed the last line of data statements though. probably just needed a 22 DATA 999 or something. oh well
<jibadeeha> exobuzz, respect dude that is really cool
<jibadeeha> exobuzz, i got one of my program listings printed in program pitstop but they published it by accident as it didn't correspond to the letter
<exobuzz> program pitstop! you should dig that out
<exobuzz> aah nice memories
<exobuzz> i rememebr typing out a long tim follin tune in your sinclair program pitstop. 3 channel audio routine. very cool. but took a long time heh
<jibadeeha> exobuzz, the letter and instructions were for a disassembler but the listing was my crappy basic program that renumbered lines .. imagine how many people must have been annoyed to see my listing
<exobuzz> http://craigsretrocomputingpage.eu5.org/startip2/tune_disassembly_hexdump.html that one
<exobuzz> jibadeeha, ouch, they really messed up. but nice to have your code in!
<popey> ali1234: just ran a script to eat all ram
<popey> as soon as it hit swap the mouse was very sluggish
<popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/598739/
<jibadeeha> exobuzz, yeah i remember cycling home as fast as i could to tell my mum and dad that they'd published my code lol
<popey> went a bit nuts
<exobuzz> jibadeeha, mplayer http://modstream.exotica.org.uk/modstream/?md5=ca095372ca71989fb3e12f829882eecc
<exobuzz> classic speccy tune heh
<ali1234> popey: turns out you can do it by scaling up in imagemagick
<ali1234> popey: try convert any.png -format png -resize 10000x10000 out.png
<ali1234> this will instantly use about 6 GB of ram
<exobuzz> jibadeeha, i miss the feeling of getting the latest copy of your sinclair in the post. the excitement. i get retro gamer these days, but i guess it will never be quite the same
<jibadeeha> exobuzz, pmsl i remember that tune - that is so funny
<ali1234> computer will lock up (mouse won't even move, screen won't redraw)
<jibadeeha> exobuzz, is retro gamer good .. i nearly bought that once
<ali1234> only option is ctrl-alt-f1 (takes 5 minutes), login (takes another 5 minutes) and killall convert
<ali1234> then when you switch back to X11 all your ssh connections will have timed out and firefox will pop up a hundred "script not responding" warnings
<jibadeeha> exobuzz, i've got 1000s of sinclair games now for the emulator .. bought this CD full of them
<exobuzz> speccy out run . wooot http://modstream.exotica.org.uk/modstream/?md5=eb76edd54a6aefb2730b0527911e8fd7
<exobuzz> jibadeeha, "chaos" by julian gollop. played that ?
<shauno> that convert command doesn't peg ram here.  pegs a core to itself, but settles out about 550Mb ram
<exobuzz> old fave of mine.. great multiplayer
<popey> ali1234: that finished without swapping :)
<ali1234> shauno: add a few zeros until it does :)
<popey> will make it 10x bigger
<ali1234> i might have miscalculated
<ali1234> hmm yeah here 10000x10000 goes very fast
<ali1234> try 36000x17700
<jibadeeha> exobuzz, oh yes 3 channel music .. loved outrun and that blonde babe in the car
<exobuzz> she was hot and pixellated
<exobuzz> sam fox strip poker, in the spectrum.. . heh
<jibadeeha> i knew sam fox was coming lol
<exobuzz> s/in/on
<jibadeeha> i remember the your sinclair edition covering vixen - was sort of embarrassed to buy it
<popey>  3455 alan      20   0 3999m 3.8g 2740 R   92 49.0   0:40.32 convert
<exobuzz> oh yeh. vixen! and erm. game over, and barbarian i think were naughty. and psyscho pigs uxb
<ali1234> popey: yeah
<ali1234> is computer still usable while that's churning away?
<popey> yes
<ali1234> because mine totally locks up
<popey> i can kill it with perl though
<jibadeeha> exobuzz, you remember them all .. though hard to forgetm, especially barbarian
<popey> get it to swap and it really locks up
<jibadeeha> exobuzz, just tried chaos now .. asking how many wizards i want
<ali1234> ok, next step is to run latencytop while doing this
<exobuzz> playing alone? 3 maybe. you and 2 computer
<ali1234> preferably on a remote ssh because otherwise it will never update the display
<shauno> wow.  1Mx1M took just over 6 minutes to scale
<ali1234> how much ram you got?
<shauno> 4Gb
<ali1234> same
<shauno> someone needs to teach that thing to thread :(
<ali1234> how big is your input file?
<shauno> hah, no idea, I just nuked it because dropbox was trying to upload it
<ali1234> it's not CPU bound at all
<ali1234> it's slow because of the swapping
<ali1234> 1Mx1M you say?
<shauno> it's sitting at 100% of one core on mine
<popey> yeah, same here
<ali1234> hum
<ali1234> mine too
<ali1234> actually, here it is using 330% of my CPU, so over 3 cores
<ali1234> and only 200MB of ram
<ali1234> so the computer remains completely usable
<ali1234> well, sort of
<ali1234> it must look at how much ram+swap you have, and use a different algorithm if it can't fit the whole thing in ram+swap
<ali1234> which is stupid, for this it should only consider ram size, not ram + swap
<shauno> odd, top shows it bouncing between 'running' and 'stuck'
<Azelphur> DragonKeeper: btw I'm following portal 2 / wine stuff
<ali1234> maybe it's not even doing anything
<shauno> but yeah, 1Mx1M is using about 600M
<Azelphur> DragonKeeper: It's a bug in steams DRM that causes the crash on startup, there are many many windows users affected too. There's a 100+ page thread on the steam forums \o/
<ali1234> it's probably using all that memory building the datastructure it will use to store the real image, which is 2.7 TB
<shauno> hah, vsize is up to 11Gb
<DragonKeeper> Azelphur im using a DVD version not steam
<ali1234> oh yeah
<Azelphur> DVD version works o.O
<Azelphur> are you using -wavonly?
<ali1234> don't do this experiment on the desktop, or nautilus will use several GB trying to read the resulting file
<DragonKeeper> Azelphur mine crashes on splash screen with err:d3d:wined3d_wndproc Window 0x20082 is not registered with wined3d.
<shauno> yeah, I'm getting something similar with the mac.  the metadata service is going nuts
<directhex> um... dvd version?
<exobuzz> m machine is very responsive even though it is swapping now
<exobuzz> doing imagemagick scaling to 1Mx1M pixels
<ali1234> scaling to 1Mx1M is a bad test
<ali1234> try scaling to 50000x50000 instead
<exobuzz> whats a good test ?
<exobuzz> ok
<exobuzz> tis working.
<ali1234> now try to open a new terminal window or something
<ali1234> or even just minimize a window or anything like that
<exobuzz> yeh was ok
<exobuzz> still ok
<exobuzz> nothing ground to a halt. but im on 2.6.39 btw not 2.6.38
<ali1234> it's done already?
<exobuzz> not yet.
<exobuzz> i even loaded thunderbird and checked email
<MartijnVdS> 1Mx1M is going to be painful :)
<shauno> painful was what we were trying to replicate, but I can't seem to convince convert to use swap at all
<exobuzz> it might start using temp files instead of swap
<ali1234> hmm weird
<MartijnVdS> shauno: do you have >4G RAM? :)
<ali1234> try 36000x17700
<shauno> 'just' 4
<ali1234> i also see no swap usage at 50000x50000
<exobuzz> 3m10 seconds. done
<ali1234> it might have a hardcoded limit or something
<shauno> but I haven't got it to go over 1Gb yet.  it gets about 600Mb and then just gets slower
<exobuzz> or 4mins30 second. i shoudl read the man file for "time"
<shauno> I think maybe look for something that should flood swap, rather than something that appears to be 'clever' about it
<ali1234> flooding swap is hard though
<ali1234> if yo ujust allocate a lot of ram and don't use it nothing will happen
<popey> http://popey.com/~alan/eatram.pl.txt
<popey> that works
<popey> kills my machine pretty quick
<popey> 8GB
<MartijnVdS> there are easier ways to kill your machine using Perl :)
<shauno> :)  <- may be one of them.  you never know.
<ali1234> yes that instantly locked up the machine
<MartijnVdS> perl -e '@a = 1..1_000_000_000_000' *boom*
<MartijnVdS> No need to use strings.. just fill an array :)
<shauno> yeah, popey's works.  4Gb into swap and counting
<MartijnVdS> gah my entire machine is teh slowz
<MartijnVdS> and I have 8G
<shauno> hm, stopped at 4.16Gb in swap & 2 'real'
<exobuzz> well. that hosed my system
<MartijnVdS> \o/
<exobuzz> good to know a simple recusive bash function is enough to bring everything to a halt so you cant even ctrl+alt+delete heh
<exobuzz> maybe ubuntu shiould have some sensible ulimits
<shauno> that eatram made your box fall over?
<exobuzz> ok. 600 process limit in place. much better
<Bulldog> another skype update o.O  wow  2 in a week   .. most work skype has ever done lol
<jacobw> i HATE the scroll bars
<jacobw> plural intended, because there's so many differnt ones
<jacobw> new scroll bars in unity that is
<penguin42> jacobw: Yeh I'm not loving them either - they seem to have infected the gnome apps in my KDE world as well
<penguin42> jacobw: I might get used to them though not sure yet
<penguin42> I can see they take less horizontal space up which is an advantage
<jacobw> it isn't advantage when you can't find them in the first place
<penguin42> well yes
<Darael> Am I misunderstanding the uptime manpage, or am I right in thinking that a load-average of eleven or more, on a 4-core system, with CPU-usage below 25% as reported by htop ought not to be possible?
<MartijnVdS> Darael: you misunderstand :)
<Darael> MartijnVdS: Phew.
<MartijnVdS> Darael: things can be in a "runnable state" for shorter than the CPU measurement interval
<Darael> MartijnVdS: Makes sense, aye.  Cheers.
<penguin42> Darael: They are processes that want to run - 100 processes all waiting for IO can give a LA of 100
<penguin42> Darael: Or 100 processes all trying to run and getting scheduled in and out all trying to use CPU can do it
 * penguin42 has seen about 800 on his poor 2 core laptop when things really go wrong :-)
 * brobostigon returns, beautiful sun, :)
 * MartijnVdS plays some more SpaceChem
<czajkowski> I am addicted to jonahan creak
<shauno> some things it's safer to just not admit aloud ;)
<czajkowski> :)
<czajkowski> everyone enjoy dr. who being back on saturday?
<bigcalm> Undecided
<czajkowski> hmm
<bigcalm> The ep was drawn out, the acting was painful compaired to previous eps.
<bigcalm> Didn't want a 2 parter as an introduction
<bigcalm> Otherwise enjoyed it
<czajkowski> I'm still peeved that the dr has 2 companions
<czajkowski> amy ponds hubby drives me batty
<bigcalm> Hayley complained of tummy problems after watching the ep :S
<shauno> I'll give you that one
<shauno> there has to be a limit to how many companions he can have before it turns into scooby who
<popey> haha shauno
<gord> hehe, bear grylls has a range of clothing, its not what you might think, just shirts and stuff. not animal skins ;)
<MartijnVdS> gord: you know the meme, right? :)
<gord> sigh, i'm 25 now, maybe i should actually buy an iron
<MichealH> A symlink to /var/www will not work D:
<MichealH> It gives me a 403
<Azelphur> that'll be permissions, not anything to do with a symlink
<Azelphur> :P
<MichealH> What should the permissions be?
<MichealH> 755?
<Azelphur> do you understand the permissions system or are you just picking random numbers? :P
<Azelphur> (picking random numbers is fine, I'll help you understand it properly XD)
<AlanBell> octal permissions should not be allowed!
<MichealH> Azelphur: 755 is Owner = rwx Group = r-x Others = r-x
<MichealH> :P
<AlanBell> yay
<Azelphur> ok :P
<Azelphur> so you should know the answer to your own question then
<MichealH> Not really,  :P
<AlanBell> I have a client that goes on about 755 permissions, he has *no* clue what it means
<Azelphur> who is /var/www owned by?
<MichealH> root, I guess
<Azelphur> don't guess, check.
<AlanBell> and who is apache running as
<MichealH> drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4096 2011-04-25 18:17 www
<Azelphur> MichealH: and now for AlanBell's answer :p
<AlanBell> so "user apache is running as" != "owner of /var/www" so apache has r-x
<MichealH> How would I check that? :P
<AlanBell> ps aux |grep apache
<Azelphur> MichealH: ps aux | grep apache
<AlanBell> it will be www-data
<Azelphur> indeed :P
<AlanBell> sudo chown www-data:www-data /var/www
<MichealH> I have recently restarted he server using sudo /etc/init.d/apache2 reload
<MichealH> is that correct? :P
<AlanBell> yeah, that is ok
<AlanBell> in the startup script for apache it switches to the www-data user
<AlanBell> just because root kicked off the startup script doesn't mean the service will run as root
<MichealH> drwxr-xr-x 2 www-data www-data 4096 2011-04-25 18:42 www
<MichealH> But it still will not stop the 403
<MichealH> The ps aux command shows:
<MichealH> michealh  4416  0.0  0.1   3324   792 pts/2    S+   18:45   0:00 grep --color=auto apache
<MichealH> it seems to be running as me
<MichealH> Well... Multiple entries, most are www-data
<popey> thats the grep running as you
<popey> not apache
<MichealH> Okies
<MichealH> Still throwing a 403 :/
<MichealH> Would it make any difference if It was in a directory I specified in a file in /etc/apache2/sites-available ?
<MichealH> popey: ^^
<popey> sorry I'm a but busy right now
<popey> need to go and put the kids to bed
<popey> i would check your /var/log/apache/error.log though
<MichealH> [Mon Apr 25 17:23:29 2011] [error] [client 192.168.0.1] Symbolic link not allowed or link target not accessible:
<MichealH> Then the dir name of the symlink#
<MichealH> :/
<popey> that helps :)
<MichealH> In my /etc/apache2/httpd.conf I have "Options FollowSymLinks" on
<MichealH> for that dir
<popey> pass then
<MichealH> This may help
<MichealH> [Mon Apr 25 18:59:18 2011] [error] [client 192.168.0.1] Directory index forbidden by Options directive
<Guest24163> sounds like someone has been trying ../../../../
<MichealH> huh?
<Guest24163> trying to propagate back through your top level dir, its a old hacking trick thats in loads of books
<Guest24163> but you have disabled indexing hense why i thought of that
<MichealH> I think I havent
<MichealH> Would not defining the index in the httpd.conf be bad, as i have a conf in /etc/apache2/sites-availible
<MichealH> With Document toot and stuff
<MichealH> s.toot.root
<Guest24163> it would, yup
<MichealH> How would I do that in the httpd.conf?
<Guest24163> it says directory index forbidden which says to me that you have disabled indexing of directories
<MichealH> How would I enable it?
<ali1234> so everyone managed to crash their system with swapping?
<MichealH> Hmm... Now the symlink is playing up
<ali1234> any ideas where to go from here?
<Guest24163> Options -Indexes
<Guest24163> theres loads of details on apache wiki, it would be a great place to start with :)
<MichealH> I have the main dir up
<popey> ali1234: swappiness?
<Guest24163> can i ask what your trying to do?
<MichealH> But the symlink, apache will not find it in its list and it is a 403
<ali1234> popey: i already tried that
<ali1234> it made it slightly worse if anything
<shauno> ali1234: mine didn't crash, just made minecraft a bit laggy.  but I was kinda playing devil's advocate ;)
<MichealH> Guest24163: Im tryng to symlink ~/ubuntu-at to /var/www/ubuntu-at with /var/www empty
<MichealH> I now cannot access the ubuntu-at directory
<ali1234> what do the options for ulimit mean?
<Guest24163> set the permissions level?
<MichealH> Guest24163: Huh?
<Guest24163> 403 is forbidden right?
<MichealH> Yeah
<Guest24163> have you set the permissions level right?
<MichealH> Its 755
<Guest24163> hmm
<Guest24163> are you testing on a live machine
<Guest24163> ?
<MichealH> drwxr-xr-x  2 www-data www-data    4096 2011-04-25 18:17 ubuntu-at
<shauno> beware that apache pays attention to where links are going
<MichealH> Its on my server
<MichealH> shauno: Hmm?
<MichealH> Its in my homedir
<shauno> if you allow indexes in /var/www, but don't allow them in / (which is default in ubuntu's install), /var/www/ubuntu-at as a symlink to ~/ubuntu-at won't allow indexes because ~/ubuntu-at is under / but not /var/www
<MichealH> How would I allow indexes in /?
<Guest24163> directory /
<Guest24163> option indexes
<shauno> I'd just add a <Directory /your/home/ubuntu-at> in your vhost.  indexes are disabled under / for very sane reasons
<Guest24163> ah, thanks shauno :)
<ali1234> hmm RLIMIT_RSS does exactly what i need to do, unfortunately it only works on 2.4 kernels
<shauno> otherwise people can just use .. to start wandering your entire machine
<Guest24163> ../../../
<MichealH> shauno:
<MichealH> <Directory /home/michealh/ubuntu-at>
<MichealH> Options Indexes
<MichealH> </Directory>
<MichealH> ?
<shauno> pretty much.  I'd just copy the entry for /var/www that's already there
<shauno> but that should work as-is
<MichealH> Hrmm, I still get a 403
<shauno> you reloaded?
<MichealH> Yeah
<MichealH> Lemme copy the /var/www one
<shauno> does the last entry in error.log still say the index is forbidden?
<MichealH> [Mon Apr 25 19:14:16 2011] [error] [client 192.168.0.1] File does not exist: /srv/www/meetings.touchlay.com/www/favicon.ico
<MichealH> :/
<MichealH> Only error
<gordonjcp> MichealH: lern2pastebin
<MichealH> its for multi line pastes :P
<shauno> that one's normal.  if you're getting a 403 forbidden, there should be something in either error.log or access.log to match tho
<MichealH> Not single-line pastes
<MichealH> where will i find that?
<shauno> access.log is in the same folder as the error.log you're already looking at.  but I think the 403 should be in error :/
<MichealH> shauno: Im using a vhost with only errorlog enables
<shauno> [Mon Apr 25 18:59:18 2011] [error] [client 192.168.0.1] Directory index forbidden by Options directive  <= looking for a new version of this one
<MichealH> Im not getting that anymore
<shauno> I'd suspect apache wants +rx on your both ~/ and ~/ubuntu-at/ then
<MichealH> What command shall I run?
<MichealH> sudo chmod +rx ~/ ?
<MichealH> drwxr-xr-x  2 www-data www-data    4096 2011-04-25 18:17 ubuntu-at
<MichealH> and for home dir
<MichealH> drwxr-xr-x 23 michealh michealh 4096 2011-04-25 19:15 michealh
<MartijnVdS> SymlinksIfOwnerMatch?
<shauno> it'd be really handy if it was logging errors :/
<MichealH> MartijnVdS: Hmm?
<MartijnVdS> try adding to the Options line
<MartijnVdS> -SymlinksIfOwnerMatch
<MartijnVdS> and +Symlinks
<MartijnVdS> be sure to read the apache documentation about it though - there are security implications
<popey> why not host them properly with their own vhosts in /srv/<host>/www/ rather than smooshed up in /var/www ?
<MartijnVdS> popey++
<shauno> I'd be really tempted to knock your loglevel up to info while you're doing this.  bring it back down after if you like, but troubleshooting blind is messy
<MichealH> shauno: How could I do that?
<MichealH> Hrmm... still a 403
<MichealH> I acctually do have this one in /srv/www/meetings.touchlay.com/www/
<MichealH> MartijnVdS:
<MichealH> Illegal option Symlinks
<MichealH>    ...fail!
<MichealH> :/
<MartijnVdS> MichealH: please read the Apache documentation about the "Options" option
<MartijnVdS> MichealH: it explains which ones are valid and what they do
<MichealH> apache docs
<MichealH> oops... tought this was chrome
<MartijnVdS> http://httpd.apache.org/docs/current/mod/core.html#options
<dwatkins> I noticed, MichealH ;)
<shauno> I've discovered a glaring design flaw with my macbook :((
<dwatkins> Do tell, shauno.
<shauno> I can left-click.  I can right-click.  but I can't do both at once.  this makes cannon fodder unplayable.
<MartijnVdS> it runs macos?
<dwatkins> shauno: I can't middle-click on mine, unless I get a mouse ;)
<shauno> MartijnVdS: when everyone was filling their swaps and bringing their systems to a grinding halt, I got some mild lag in minecraft.  I'm happy with osx, ta :p
<jacobw> but.. you missed out on the fun :o
<dwatkins> I've been battling with USB on Ubuntu, OS X has no such issues.
<jacobw> because when one operating systems has a problem, all others should have the same problem :)
<dwatkins> I meant storage problems in general.
<dwatkins> I've spent a lot of time installing Ubuntu over the years, whereas OS X just works. I accept that there's a commercial organisation behind OS X and Ubuntu is entirely volunteer-based, I'm just stating what I've observed.
<shauno> I still can't believe how long this thing gets on battery.  I still use linux for most tasks you throw a dedicated machine/vm at, but I do think osx is pretty unbeatable on laptops
 * brobostigon haz chinese curry, yummy, :)
<shauno> even if it is soley because they're only supporting 2 and a half models of laptop
<jacobw> depends how computational your tasks are i guess
<shauno> either way, I still need to find a new mouse for cannon fodder.  absolutely zero point in getting dosbox going otherwise
<popey> right, just upgraded an intel box to natty and I can confirm that even on a box that has no apps open whatsoever, with empty ram, dual core 2GHZ cpu, unity is still slow
<dwatkins> What kind of graphics card, popey?
<popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/598854/
<popey> 00:02.0 VGA compatible controller: Intel Corporation Mobile 945GM/GMS, 943/940GML Express Integrated Graphics Controller (rev 03)
<popey> so the argument that it's my nvidia card at fault holds zero sway with me
<brobostigon> popey: with said gpu, could you check to see if you get the same gpu hang/lockup i get, i seems comon across several differnt intel gpu's. please.
<dwatkins> I'm just wondering if it's powerful enough.
<popey> 10:44 < gord> 945's *should* work with unity fine, but i haven't booted up my 945 in a long time, the power adapter died - which i took as a strong hint that i should buy a new toy instead
<popey> I officially own zero machines capable of running unity
<popey> I have a dual core 8GB desktop, a dual core 4GB laptop, a dual core 8GB macbook pro.
<dwatkins> I wonder if my MBP would run it.
<popey> unity is bad on all of them
<popey> the ssd in the laptop makes it nice and quick to start up tho
<popey> brobostigon: what triggers it?
<brobostigon> popey: that is up for debate, let me link you up.
<popey> i mean, can you reproduce it easily?
<brobostigon> popey: me, yes, use flash, andkill it abruptly.
<popey> ali1234: recall your bug about there being a delay clicking between windows on unity? I just tried on intel and it doesnt happen, so looks very much like an nvidia issue
<brobostigon> 715096
<popey> bug 715096
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 715096 in xserver-xorg-video-intel (Ubuntu) "[i945gm] GPU lockup (ESR: 0x00000001 IPEHR: 0x02000011)" [High,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/715096
<ali1234> popey: of course :)
<popey> brobostigon: have you tried the ppa on that bug?
<brobostigon> popey: yes, no lockup/hang yet in two days, of normal use, with standerd natty kernel.
<popey> https://launchpad.net/~bryce/+archive/fig using that?
<brobostigon> yes.
<popey> I'd leave a comment saying that then :)
<brobostigon> popey: i am not sure yet, i am going to do more testing, about things i think cause said issue.
<popey> well we're only a few days from release
<brobostigon> true, yes.
<brobostigon> i want to be sure though.
<popey> worth saying at least that youve gone a couple of days with no crashes
<brobostigon> yes,
<brobostigon> popey: i originally thought it was an issue with kms, and drm inside it.
<daubers> Evening
<brobostigon> good evening daubers
 * daubers may need a trip to maplin next weekend
<daubers> need moar aluminium cases
<gord> popey, brobostigon - if compiz is slow to switch windows and your using firefox. its a firefox bug
<gord> basically - the new acceleration it does kills opengl performance
<gord> i disabled firefox 4 acceleration in about:config
<ali1234> gord: it's not firefox, it's *any* program that uses 3d
<popey> firefox 4 is not open
<ali1234> gord: for example, glxgears with a 100x100 window and locked to vsync so it only does 60fps
<gord> there may be other bugs, all i am talking about is a specific case of firefox
<brobostigon> gord: and i dont use unity nor compiz,
<ali1234> gord: does turning off acceleration make launchpad render faster?
<brobostigon> idont use FF either.
<gord> ali1234, i have no ideaw
<ali1234> i know that is related to acceleration and nvidia bugs
<ali1234> whats the about:config option?
<ali1234> layers.acceleration.disabled?
<gord> i'm not sure
<ali1234> lol how did you change it?
<gord> i changed a setting? i don't memorise settings and it was months ago
<ali1234> hmm seems much faster now
<ali1234> it's funny
<ali1234> that the only driver that they whitelisted actually is so buggy that firefox runs faster when you disable accel
<AlanBell> what is this a screenshot of? http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/bootsplash.png
<gord> someone booting natty in a vm? i mean it says right there
<AlanBell> yeah, I know that bit!
<AlanBell> that stage of the boot process
<AlanBell> it isn't ubiquity, the plymouth people say it isn't them
<AlanBell> it isn't grub
<AlanBell> I am thinking isolinux is doing it, but not sure
<gord> no idea, maybe ask -desktop
<AlanBell> I did
<gord> ah dang, i spent Â£0.99 on a phone application, quick, trigger the anti-fraud devices and cancel all my amazon orders! ... stupid bank
<stgraber> AlanBell: gfxboot
<stgraber> AlanBell: gfxboot is the bit that's rendering the graphical menu on the CD/DVD, it's loaded by isolinux
<AlanBell> thanks stgraber
<AlanBell> it needs to go beep
<AlanBell> bug 732320
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 732320 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "no audio clues on how to get into the accessible install with screen reader" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/732320
<brobostigon> bugjam daybug, :)
<AlanBell> actually a bug I have been filing every release for the last three releases
<brobostigon> :(
<gord> bugs are only useful if someone is maintaining
<AlanBell> and if they are against the right package
<ali1234> true dat
<AlanBell> I had been reporting them against casper as someone told me that is where liveCD bugs go
<gord> really the kind of thing you need to grab a person about really, maybe a uds thing
<AlanBell> great, not going.
<gord> or maybe the accessibility team
<AlanBell> heh
<gord> or of course the alternative, get in there and fix it yourself
<AlanBell> that I am happy to do
<AlanBell> just need someone to point me in the right direction
<gord> time to put your columbo hat on, and start asking questions ;) mailing lists are prolly the most useful
<ali1234> columbo raincoat you mean?
 * AlanBell does apt-get source gfxboot
<AlanBell> ok, so on the cd the image I am interested in is in /isolinux/access.pcx
<ali1234> pcx? seriously?
<ali1234> i haven't seen a pcx file in years
<AlanBell> yes
<AlanBell> and I did apt-get source syslinux and apt-get source gfxboot and it isn't in either of them
<ali1234> well it could be generated still
<AlanBell> grep -rn access.pcx * returns nothing
<ali1234> try the plymouth-theme-* packages?
<AlanBell> find |grep access returns nothing interesting
<ali1234> http://askubuntu.com/questions/10258/how-to-change-live-cd-splash-screen
<AlanBell> yup, that is certainly the file
<shauno> watching dr who confidential; they actually built a set for the oval office?  I kinda assumed that'd be 'stock' enough that the beeb would have one ... laying around
<AlanBell> so if I boot from a live CD is there a command to find out what package owns /isolinux/access.pcx
<brobostigon> shauno: they do have one of no'10 lieing around.
<shauno> well you'd think so, wouldn't you.  seems silly having every show build their own
<brobostigon> yes
<AlanBell> bug 546922 is another one
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 546922 in gfxboot-theme-ubuntu (Ubuntu) "[lucid] Some suggestions with new gfxboot artwork" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/546922
<hamitron> won't there be a poor turn-up to the meeting, with everyone calling in at the pub on the way back from voting?
<mgdm> I knew I was missing a channel...
<hamitron> the important one too!!! :-o
 * bigcalm feels unloved
 * hamitron fluffles bigcalm
<hamitron> brb, phone
<brobostigon> good night eveyone, sleep well.
<tugrik> hi - does anyone have a /etc/logrotate.d/pacct file?
<hamitron> tugrik: no
<BigRedS> hamitron: I'm sure *someone* does :)
<hamitron> yeh
<hamitron> just letting him know someone saw him I guess
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> suppose it was one of my usual unhelpful replies :/
#ubuntu-uk 2011-04-26
<shauno> uhoh, new google doodle.  must be getting close to bedtime
<hamitron> tugrik: mind if I ask what you are trying to do?
<tugrik> it's ok, turns out some kind of anacron issue means none of my cron.daily jobs have run in the last month
<tugrik> including log rotation
<tugrik> but fixed it now
<tugrik> nn :)
<hamitron> ok, good :)
<hamitron> nn dude o/
<n1md4> hello
<n1md4> does anyone here play enemy territory?  I'm wanting to set resolution defaults, but don't know where to.
<gord> n1md4, look in ~/.enemyterritory/ for a .cfg file (i'm guessing because its based on quake 3 and thats the kind of thing quake 3 does)
<n1md4> gord: thanks, found it.  Was .etwolf, got it working now too :D
<phonex01> hello
<ball> mornin.
<forkball> Anyone up yet?
<TheOpenSourcerer> What after a 4 day holiday weekend? You must be kidding forkball
<forkball> TheOpenSourcerer: Ah, you get longer holidays than we do.
<forkball> I worked yesterday and it was not fun.
<forkball> brb, rebooting.
<daubers> Morning
<forkball> I don't remember asking for Flash, but I'm impressed that it installed anyway.
<forkball> I know, I'll download Big Buck Bunny and save that on her desktop.
<forkball> ...then Tuxtype
<forkball> Is there an #ubuntu-parents ?
<AlanBell> morning
 * AlanBell works out who forkball is
<forkball> hello AlanBell
<forkball> :-)
<TheOpenSourcerer> morning AlanBell
<forkball> I'm ball, but I'm using fork's PC
<AlanBell> morning
<forkball> ...with forkbuntu :-)
<forkball> I love this.  I haven't had this much fun with a PC in years.
<forkball> Hard disk is too loud though. I'll have to buy her a quieter one.
<forkball> I'm a bit surprised this computer can't play Ogg/Theora at 480p
<forkball> Ah, there it is.
<forkball> That works.
<forkball> It's 01:30 and her machine is officially working.  I'm off to bed.
<forkball> Have a good morning everyone!
<daubers> Back in work after a wekk and a half away :(
<DJones> Morning all
<DJones> daubers: At least its only a 3 day week with bank holidays, a nice short start to get you back into it
<daubers> DJones: There is that :) Also get to ride the bike in and out all week
<DJones> I wouldn't mind riding to work, but 30 miles each way would be a bit of a drag
<daubers> DJones: Wrong kind of bike :)
<daubers> DJones: http://www.suzuki-gb.co.uk/bike/gz125k9/ <- My commuting vehicle this week
<popey> Morning all.
<daubers> o/
<BigRedS> 125 cruisers always seem to be way more powerful than any other shape
<daubers> Not quicker though :(
<daubers> Did manage to sustain about 58 on the way in today mind you
<BigRedS> haha, my brother's friend had a kymco 125 that almost kept up with us on 500s...
<DJones> daubers: Heh, Must admit, I don't like motorbikes
<BigRedS> which might say more about those 500s (or us) than it does about the kymco :)
<daubers> Heh :)
<daubers> BigRedS: I so want one of these http://www.honda.co.uk/motorcycles/tourers/#!/st1300/
<hoover> mornin
<MooDoo> hello all
<DJones> Morning hoover MooDoo
<BigRedS> daubers: I've an ST1100, and keep wondering about a 14300
<BigRedS> it's a lovely bike
<BigRedS> weirdly sporty, and apparently the 1300 is moreso
<zerosumgame> can anyone help getting my headphone jack to work?
<zerosumgame> can anyone help getting my headphone jack to work?
<DJones> zerosumgame: I'm not on ubuntu at the minute, but if you go into your sound preferences, have you made sure that the headphone jack isn't muted, I can't say the specific command because I'm not able to check properly at the minute
<zerosumgame> DJ yeah its not muted
<zerosumgame> when i put the headphones in it doesn't even stop the sound coming from the spekers
<DJones> zerosumgame: Do you get sound out of both headphone & speaker, or just speaker
<DJones> And which version of Ubuntu are you using
<zerosumgame> just speakers 10.10
<DJones> Is it a laptop? Which model
<zerosumgame> HP-Pavilion dv5 laptop
<zerosumgame> thanks for the help btw
<DJones> Give me a minute, I'll see if I can find any suggestions on the ubuntu forums that might help
<daubers> BigRedS: *jealous*
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps. Who here wishes they had booked these 3 days off?
<DJones> zerosumgame: I'm afraid I can't see anything specific about it, hopefully somebody else here will be able to help though
<AlanBell> zerosumgame: that happens on some laptops when it fails to guess the speaker configuration
<zerosumgame> any idea how  to fix that AlanBell?
<AlanBell> zerosumgame: what is the output of lspci |grep Audio
<zerosumgame> Audio device: ATI Technologies Inc SBx00 Azalia (Intel HDA)
<zerosumgame> 01:05.1 Audio device: ATI Technologies Inc RS780 Azalia controller
<zerosumgame> i think i need to edit the config file
<osbeix> hi folks i need some help with English. is there someone who can help me pls
<zerosumgame> brb need to reboot
<osbeix> what exaclty means "joint undertaking"
<andyloughran> howdy
<osbeix> hi
<oimon> osbeix: when 2 or more parties work together on something
<osbeix> oimon: thank you very much
<oimon> have you guys seen this: tweetedtimes.com - it's like a google news page of your twitter feed
<zerosumgame> AlanBell I got it to work thanks also to DJones
<DJones> zerosumgame: What was the problem
<zerosumgame> i just added a line of to the alas config file which I found on the forum
<DJones> Thats good that it wasn't to messy to solve
<zerosumgame> no i was surprised myself
<zerosumgame> updating to version 11 is easy right?
<DJones> It should be, I upgraded to the beta a couple of weeks back with no problems, pretty much just a case of clicking the button to upgrade once the system said that a new version was available & it downloaded everything via the web
<brobostigon> good morning everyone
<bigcalm> Morning
<brobostigon> morning bigcalm
<bigcalm> Trying to get my head around some code I wrote 2 months ago. Wish I had documented it a little more
<DJones> bigcalm: Isn't "Wish I had documented it a little more" up there with "I wish I'd kept backups"
<bigcalm> DJones: I'd say it was a few steps below
<bigcalm> And I try to write my code so that it doesn't need comments
<DJones> I think you're right with that
<bigcalm> $cammelCaseVariablesHelpDocumentCodeWithoutHavingToDocument
<BigRedS> there's still the "why did that look like a good idea" bits, though
<dogmatic69> self commenting code ftw
<bigcalm> Some code we got back from a 3rd party dev were obscure as hell
<dogmatic69> $a = $b['c']; // fail
<bigcalm> And undocumented
<oimon> that's why i gave up learning perl
<oimon> the ability to create some of the most obscure code imaginable
<BigRedS> oimon: it's not a requirement of writing perl, though!
<oimon> BigRedS: seemed to be, from the examples i was reading - everything was hard to read!
<bigcalm> BigRedS: are you sure? ;)
<bigcalm> A laguage is only as good as the way it is used. So, find a better book on learning a language
<bigcalm> For Perl, I suggest 'Learning Perl' and 'Perl Cookbook'. Both by O'Reilly
<BigRedS> I like to think mine is pretty readable
<bigcalm> The Perl CD Bookshelf is a very handy thing (if you're a Perl coder)
<BigRedS> much of the 'modern perl' movement seems to be about making perl easier to read and write, bascially by trying to create defacto standards
<oimon> i had the "programming perl" o reilly one
<BigRedS> oimon: yeah, that's more about the language itself than writing it, I thought
<bigcalm> A good book, but not great if you need to start learning
<oimon> i don't remember now, twas a few years ago
 * DJones wonders if the reason the postman is late is because we've got an abandoned post office bike in the office car park
<BigRedS> haha
 * oimon just put a heater on :( 
<DJones> oimon: When did you move to Iceland, I'm roasting (although that could just be the feeling of crispy sun(not quite) burned skin keeping me warm
<oimon> i am hidden behind 6 ft thick concrete walls
<oimon> in a north and west facing corner office with single glazed windows...rather chilly
<oimon> i must remember to remove lifehacker from my rss and twitter feeds :( every time i click their links, it fails miserably
<DJones> 6ft thick concrete walls, that sounds like you walk in a bank vault
<DJones> s/walk/work
<shauno> I've done this same :/  js doesn't belong in a url
<gord> guys. this is awesome. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SRM0z9GprQg
<gord> book lens for ubuntu
<davmor2> gord: the gwibber lens is pretty good too, of course not as good as it will be next release
<gord> yeah, next release is gonna be awesome :)
<davmor2> gord: Yeap I think I'm going to look forward to that more than this release to be honest
<gord> as a software developer, i always look forward to the cool stuff i want to do next release that i couldn't do this release
<bigcalm> gord: next release being 11.10?
<gord> yup
<bigcalm> Just checking :)
<oimon> i think my next laptop will look something like this http://www.engadget.com/2011/04/18/asus-eee-pad-transformer-uk-edition-review/
<davmor2> gord: bigcalm:  I think everyone is the same,  this release was the chore to get everything in place ready to do the cool stuff in the next one
<bigcalm> Indeed
<AlanBell> I think this is the dreamy one and the next one will be more natty
<bigcalm> I just hope that 11.04 doesn't kill of interest
<oimon> bigcalm: that's why they should call it a technology preview ;)
<davmor2> bigcalm: I think if you give it time you'll like it, I'm so happy now I have natty on my main desktop now :)
<bigcalm> davmor2: I might not be the target audience. I do more with servers than desktop
<davmor2> bigcalm: but then I've been using it for ages on another box for testing our upcoming work
<davmor2> bigcalm: so bigger terminals are good right :)
<bigcalm> Heh
<bigcalm> Oh look, lunch time o'clock :D
<directhex> i'm waiting for the release with proper gnome3
<andyloughran> heya
<bigcalm> Will gnome be re-included in the future then?
<bigcalm> Hi andyloughran
<brobostigon> directhex: me too,
<MattJ> gord: I have no idea exactly what that video is meant to be demonstrating
<gord> really?
<gord> i mean... its pretty obvious, it says it, you can search and read books
<BigRedS> oh
<MattJ> gord: if that's all, then ok... :)
<oimon> it uses zeitgeist info to offer you book recommendations too, based on your browsing and reading habits
<oimon> my 1 year old child was given 4 easter eggs :S
<oimon> my teeth are gonna fall out
<MattJ> oimon: Oh I see!
<Pendulum> oimon: your wife isn't helping you 'dispose' of them?
<oimon> MattJ: also it's a slick search interface for accessing free online books too
<oimon> Pendulum: tbh it's my duty to eat them rather than her
<oimon> because i don't weigh much
<Pendulum> haha
<oimon> nor does she, but i like it that way
<Pendulum> ouch
<oimon> i already smuggled on eegg to work
<oimon> gonna try smuggling the others out too :)
<oimon> it's for her own good , and mine too, since i get to eat them
<gord> when i was a child chocolate eggs did nothing but torment me, i wanted to eat the entire thing at once but was not allowed, it would just have to sit there, nibbled at occasionally, wrapped in its somehow mocking golden foil. - the entire thing is evil
<oimon> i can (and usually do) make an egg last for a month
<oimon> once kept a flake in the fridge for 6 months, tormenting my whole family
<oimon> like when i kept a 4 pack of beers in the fridge at uni, and my housemate regularly succumbed and drank them all, having to replace them, drinking the replacements , etc , etc
<directhex> i'm on a diet. boo!
<oimon> me too..weight gain diet
<oimon> doesn't work though
<gord> there is a special place in hell reserved for those who eat half a chocolate bar, then put this remains in the fridge.
<oimon> :D
<oimon> i regularly have to choose the more calorific option even if i don't want it
<directhex> i'm trying to not weigh as much as a sysadmin
<Laney> how's the neckbeard?
<directhex> Laney, difficult to eliminate! i need a shaving mirror
<oimon> easiest way for a sysadmin to lose weight is to cut off the ponytail and the gadget belt
 * daubers has started measuring his calorie intake :(
<oimon> hmm my dell delivery just jumped from ETA 28/4 to 9/5 :(
<BigRedS> whoo. I should be in London on thurs eve
<BigRedS> but the closest I have to a relevant t-shirt is from the launch of Lenny :/
<directhex> i'm going for extreme calorie reduction, plus exercise
<directhex> dieting doesn't need to be all-bad. a big mac is diet-compatible.
<oimon> the trouble with minecraft is that i wouldn't be able to play it without singing 'money for nothing' the whole time: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTP2RUD_cL0
<brobostigon> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-video-intel/+bug/715096/comments/19
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 715096 in xserver-xorg-video-intel (Ubuntu) "[i945gm] GPU lockup (ESR: 0x00000001 IPEHR: 0x02000011)" [High,Incomplete]
<brobostigon> cansomeone enlighten me, as to what onearth that comment is meant to mean,please.
<directhex> time for tasty lunch
<directhex> tasty, tasty special k
 * DJones gets ready to go for a tasty chicken & bacon sub & maybe a pasty as well
 * oimon had a pasty too
<oimon> brobostigon: the comment on the bug?
<brobostigon> oimon: yes.
<oimon> brobostigon: he's saying thanks to bryce for providing the ppa
<brobostigon> oimon: oh, i see. that makes more sense.yes.
<oimon> i've received untold quantities of comment "spam" lately , of "me too" messages etc
<MooDoo> czajkowski: hay laura, your back any better?
<oimon> worst is when somebody adds crash info to an existing bug
<oimon> i received 20 emails in the space of 5 mins as somebody added attachments
<czajkowski> MooDoo: yeah getting there thanks, back is mostly ok, just leg giving me hassle now
<brobostigon> oimon: i will add crash information if i think it is going to help diagnosis and fix.
<directhex> 30g of special k. everything the body needs
<MooDoo> czajkowski: ok great :)  just checking in :D
<brobostigon> oimon: ouch,ohwell.
<oimon> directhex: i thought that the pasty was the perfect meal?
<oimon> spuds, veg, meat, pastry, tasty
<directhex> pastry is the enemy
<oimon> somebody has awakened a bug on the wine-bugs list which has been dormant for over 2 years :( suddenly > 10 comments in 24 hours!
<directhex> today is a heavy calorie control day. i'll have had about 600 calories max by the time i go to bed.
<czajkowski> directhex: you're in the wrong channel this one mentions biscuits,cakes, jammy dodgers, custard creams on a daily basis
<directhex> czajkowski, i like all those things.
 * oimon is about to eat one of these: http://www.flickr.com/photos/oimon/5158732351/in/photostream << favourite cakes ever
<daubers> directhex: I've had almost half of that already
<daubers> Bowl of frosties is 174 calories
<directhex> daubers, plus milk
<daubers> directhex: That includes milk :)
<directhex> daubers, i'd check that, given special k is 173 with milk
<directhex> on the front of the box is without
<directhex> with is in the table on the back
<oimon> did you weigh the quantity of cereal?
<dwatkins> I always put too much milk in
<daubers> directhex: That was from the side of the box in the "With milk" column
<directhex> oimon, yes.
<popey> uhm
<popey> anyone on natty + unity here?
<popey> click the time at the top right, then choose the last option on the menu
<czajkowski> popey: moi
<popey> settings
<popey> what happens when you do that?
<czajkowski> top right of what
<daubers> directhex: http://www.weightlossforall.com/calories-cereals.htm
<popey> czajkowski: your screen
<czajkowski> popey: oh the about me comes up
<popey> eh
<popey> you sure?
<czajkowski> popey: if I right click over the power button?
<czajkowski> thats the far right I can go
<popey> where did I say that?
<popey> 13:20:10 < popey> click the time at the top right, then choose the last option on the menu
<czajkowski> oh missed time
<czajkowski> :(
<popey> heh
<czajkowski> time and date thingy pops out
<popey> i get nothing
<DJones> popey: Can't check at the minute, but yesterday it was bringing up another menu with various system app's to select from
<czajkowski> popey: I've been waiting to do a update this morning but my mirror in ireland keeps not fetching
<popey> hmm, wonder why it fails here
<czajkowski> downside to unity
<daubers> popey: Got any windows open?
<czajkowski> I cant find where things are where they used to be to change :s
<oimon> just updating my natty box now
<popey> daubers: nothing
<daubers> popey: Hmmm... I get the date window as expected
 * daubers updates and checks again
<popey> what app is it?
<popey> this is a clean natty install
<daubers> popey: "Time & Date" no idea if that helps get a package name
<popey> ps aux
<popey> look at most recent process?
<daubers> popey: indicator-datetime-preferences
<awilkins> Grrr. Amazon. Peeegs.
<daubers> awilkins: I had to give up my amazon account :(
<awilkins> They keep delaying my box set of Knuth
<awilkins> I reckon it's because they sold it to me for Â£137 and all the other sellers are charging more. All their communications say "You can cancel at any time"
<oimon> lol
<awilkins> They are probably waiting for people to cancel and THEN order some stock and price it up
<popey> 13:20:10 < popey> click the time at the top right, then choose the last option on the menu
<popey> bah
<popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/599275
<popey> thats not good
 * DJones makes a note not to update natty this evening
<popey> been like it for days
<oimon> popey: mine works
<popey> suggestions welcome
<daubers> popey: restart dbus?
<oimon> anything in dmesg /var/log/messages?
<DJones> popey: Is this in a real install, or a vm? Maybe try a live usb to see if the same thing happens with a default system
<popey> vm
<popey> its in virtualbox
<popey> interestingly the theme crashes too
<popey> if i kill and restart gnome-settings-daemon it fixes it
<popey> hmm, after a reboot (and before killing gsd) the time dialog appears
<popey> bah, works now
<popey> ignore me
 * oimon hates  hayfever. feels like someone injected expanding-foam into my sinuses 
<awilkins> Get someone to inject expanding foam into your sinuses to keep the pollen out.
<gord> giant corks solve all
<dwatkins> I use beconase to stop from snoring so much
<dwatkins> I gather it's also good for hayfever.
<oimon> i use beconase, loratadine, and a nose torch
<oimon> plus eye drops and homeopathic voodoo
<oimon> what i don't understand is how, in a bedroom that is largely pollen-free, double glazed, door closed etc, do i wake at 6-7am with massive symptoms?
<directhex> hay fever hasn't hit me yet
<directhex> it's a pollen which arrives later
<directhex> around may/june
<awilkins> oimon, Natural cortisol cycle is diurnal - cortisol level drops at night, peaks in the morning
<awilkins> oimon, cortisol regulates immune system
<davmor2> gord: how do you add more desktops to unity?  I'm assuming it's all controlled via ccsm correct?
<oimon> my nose generally knows when it's sunny out though
<oimon> before i've got out of bed
<gord> more desktops?
<gord> like workspaces?
<gord> in the general settings in ccsm
<davmor2> gord: got it thanks I was looking in the wrong place
<Myrtti> ha
<Myrtti> President's cell number had to be changed because it was in Wikileaks
<Myrtti> and apparently nobody managed to do any prank calls or texts to it before it was changed
<DJones> If they had, I wonder whether he'd have answered it himself or would a secretary have answered it anyway
<Myrtti> she ;-)
<bigcalm> Finnish president I assume
<Myrtti> yup
<DJones> Ah, I thought you'd been talking about the US president
<oimon> me too...too much Dr Who
<DJones> oimon: That doesn't make sense, there can never be too much doctor who
<AlanBell> does not compute
<oimon> colin baker was in an episode of joanthan creek i saw the other day
<bigcalm> There can be too much if it's anything like Saturday's episode
<oimon> i enjoyed moffat 1000x more than RTD
<oimon> i didn't watch the entire last series of RTD
<Azelphur> How does this page work? http://bit.ly/3bFfye he's clearly using a nonstandard font that doesn't ship with all OS's o.O
<dogmatic69> Azelphur: http://code.google.com/apis/webfonts/
<shauno> they don't need to be installed anymore.  welcome to the wooooooorld of tomorrow
<bigcalm> \o/
<davmor2> MOO!
<Azelphur> yay, world of tomorrow, I've been waiting for that for a while now :p
<Azelphur> also inb4 websites with illegible calligraphy fonts
<bigcalm> Humm, media screen. So it won't print by default
<shauno> they've been doing that for a while.  using images instead of text, then using flash-image-replacement .. and now just calling the font they need
<bigcalm> Nope :) print preview in FF shows a default font
<shauno> you can't enforce taste.  just this way, it degrades to a sane fault if you disable @font-face
<shauno> er, sane font
<Azelphur> fun :p
<oimon> does anyone know why the ! character on omgubuntu looks like an l on my machine?
<oimon> only on firefox, not chrome...think i must have done something a long time ago
<oimon> look at this: http://i.imgur.com/1orOa.png
<dogmatic69> oimon: is that 10.x netbook
<oimon> lucid desktop
<oimon> it's specific to my firefox setup
<oimon> it's not showing the correct ubuntu font for some reason, maybe i have ubuntu web font installed on some weirdness
<shauno> mmm morels .. I miss shrooming
<shauno> it's the right time of year for 'em too.  just funny that your bug created a real word :)
<oimon> yeah lol...a phallic mushroom
<oimon> makes reading the comments pretty much impossible on that site
<oimon> ah, something to do with using droid sans at 14pt
<davmor2> MooDoo: Hello mukka ow am ya
<MooDoo> davmor2: alreeet yoof :)
<davmor2> MooDoo: R gret, dat czajkowski is better than she was watch, czajkowski PROD!!!!!
<MooDoo> davmor2: i know i spoked to er ealier....not poked er yet
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Paul Mellors] HeartInternet - http://paulmellors.blogspot.com/2011/04/heart-internet.html
<MooDoo> oooo there i am
<oimon> MooDoo: still looking for staff?
<MooDoo> yup  something management mentioned to me
<oimon> i recall you were looking a few months ago for the same position?
<MooDoo> oimon: same, just more :)
<oimon> :D
<oimon> would be interested if i lived nearby
<MooDoo> :)
<davmor2> oimon: you can do this thing called moving?
<oimon> davmor2: nah
<oimon> unless there's a good IT job in cornwall..then i might consider
<dogmatic69> im building a box on EC2 to house git/svn etc for internal stuff
<dogmatic69> what is the best way to have a backup that is ready to go if the main one dies?
<bigcalm> dogmatic69: one way would be to crontab an rsync to another server
<BigRedS> drbd?
<BigRedS> depends what you mean by 'backup'
<bigcalm> And then issue an svn relocate --switch
<bigcalm> Or is it svn switch --relocate? I can never remember
<dogmatic69> i guess the data should be synced on both boxes within a few minutes
<dogmatic69> using A syncing data to B, then A goes down, switch to B carry on using B, then when A is back sync data from B to A
<dogmatic69> i think a load balancer is required as that will pick which box to use, but as for the syncing data... idk where to start
<dogmatic69> BigRedS: that drdb looks about right
<shauno> you could add post-commit hooks to the svn server to rsync then
<dogmatic69> shauno: need more than svn
<shauno> ah, ok
<dogmatic69> svn is just historical anyhow, not being used much more
<dogmatic69> git, trac, other internal web apps etc
<shauno> looks like git does hooks too, but that'd get a bit annoying doing it per-service.  so I'll be quiet :)
<dogmatic69> :)
<dogmatic69> i could...
<dogmatic69> cd / && git init
<dogmatic69> :D
<dogmatic69> how do i tell the current kernel version
<daubers> dogmatic69: uname -a
<dogmatic69> tx
<dogmatic69> should have known that one :D
<dogmatic69> if you have a load balancer in area A with the main box in B and a backup in C, if area A dies then everything is dead right?
<BigRedS> yeah
<dogmatic69> :/
<dogmatic69> so then what is the point
<BigRedS> well, you might be able to manually move things, like DNS records
<dogmatic69> sounds like its ~= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hedge_fund
<BigRedS> but in that sort of situation youd want to be able to easily move IP addresses around
<BigRedS> so have everything on the same network
<dogmatic69> hmm
<BigRedS> but you'd also have two loadbalancers, failing over
<BigRedS> ideally
<BigRedS> or, perhaps, manually shift the IP from your lone loadbalancer to one member of the pool
<shauno> https://forums.aws.amazon.com/thread.jspa?messageID=112816   may be interesting
<dogmatic69> so drbd the load balancer?
<BigRedS> nah, drbd is just a block device. the load balancers don't need to have always-on disk
<dogmatic69> ok
<BigRedS> at its simplest, you have two redundant nodes, linked by heartbeat or something. When one fails, teh other can't see it and so takes everything over
<BigRedS> more ideally, you have a load balancer, and a node assumes that if it can't see the load balancer, it has died ( to prevent each thinking the other's gone away when the link between them fails)
<dogmatic69> hmm
<BigRedS> even more ideally, your load balancers are failover with hearbeat, and balancing load across some pool of nodes that don't midn which loadbalancer the requests come from
<BigRedS> but by then you need 4+ machines
<dogmatic69> well its EC2 so easy to do loads of machines
<dogmatic69> and its a pretty important box
<BigRedS> ah, but with ec2 it might be easier to spawn new machines as needed than to maintain running redundant ones? I know nothing of using ec2 though
<BigRedS> but If you can stick everything on drbd, the other node in drbd can presumably supply all the required data for the newly-spawned EC2 instance?
<BigRedS> depends how ec2 fails, though
<directhex> ec2 is only cheap if you don't plan for redundancy
<dogmatic69> ^ ye
<directhex> when you build enough slack into the system for it to keep running, it's Â£Â£Â£
<dogmatic69> 4+ will be > Â£100 pm with no traffic
<shauno> that's enough to make me wonder if traditional VMs wouldn't be a better idea
<dogmatic69> like one huge EC2 and vm's on there?
<shauno> was more thinking any of the millions of vps providers who haven't made the news this week :)
<dogmatic69> :D
<oimon> anyone used a dell dup netbook/tablet? or anything similar?
<oimon> dup=duo
<shauno> (or a combination of the two, so you're genuinely dual-homed)
<shauno> I'm curious what'd take down your first ec2 instance without taking down the second?
<shauno> just a thought.  this isn't my area at all, but I'd think the answer to having too many eggs in one basket, is more baskets, not more eggs
<dogmatic69> shauno: well like last week ec2 died in the us and eu was fine
 * brobostigon returns o/
<shauno> yeah.  so you'd want one copy in eu and the other in .. singapore or us-east I guess
<dogmatic69> so if said node was in us and died, it could spit out the eu one
<dogmatic69> yes
<dogmatic69> and then have the load balancer in japan...
<dogmatic69> but then that gets swallowed by a earthquake and the whole lot dies
<shauno> just not familiar enough with ec2 to know what advantages it'd have over a traditional vps, which is priced for always-on
<dogmatic69> dont want to wait 86000 seconds for the ttl to die
<dogmatic69> ye
<dogmatic69> works call, not mine :/
<dogmatic69> i pushed for slicehost or something 'normal'
<shauno> ec2 seems to work out better cost-wise for things that can be turned off.  so if your primary was a 'normal', but you keep an ec2 instance warm enough to bring it in on demand, you get the best of both worlds
<shauno> but yeah - just thinking out loud :)
<dogmatic69> im with  you on that one
 * dogmatic69 is not paying *shrug*
<shauno> :)
<oimon> i can't believe vendors would rather put freedos on a PC than linux :S http://www.itproportal.com/2011/04/20/lenovo-drops-price-its-cheapest-pc-ever/
<shauno> it's probably *much* easier to support
<dogmatic69> 'six USB ports and a number of legacy ports'... only because the mobo is 15 years old
<shauno> no drivers, no nothing, and they can throw their hands in the air if you have any problems under any other OS
<oimon> i thought that in the world of business, a bit of value-added always helps
<oimon> doesn't take much
<oimon> effort
<shauno> for 150 quid, it could cost the company more in manhours supporting the software pretty quickly
<shauno> (also, didn't realise intel still made celerons :)
<dogmatic69> HA is heavy on the brain :/
<shauno> just assume everything's broken, and figure out why it still works :)
<davmor2> Nothing like being up-to-date on your news I just found out my high school was knocked down in 2001
<popey> \o/ podcast evening
<davmor2> popey: what did podcast do to get the special greeting off you?
<czajkowski> I have tiger bread
<czajkowski> going to cover it in niuce yummy bugger and make a strong brew
<popey> yummy what now?
<czajkowski> dear gods
<czajkowski> I clearly was not thinking of what I was typing
<czajkowski> going to cover it in niuce yummy butter and make a strong brew of tea
<czajkowski> popey: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiger_bread
<MartijnVdS> tiger bread \o/
<phonex01> plz plz help
<phonex01> iwlagn 0000:03:00.0: request for firmware file 'iwlwifi-5000-2.ucode' failed.
<phonex01> im trying since yesterday to fix my wireless but no progress !
<phonex01> i just updated the kernel !
<phonex01> and i lost my wireless
<awilkins> Sounds like a firmware is missing.
<phonex01> the file is already there !!!
<phonex01> [   22.311864] iwlagn 0000:03:00.0: request for firmware file 'iwlwifi-5000-2.ucode' failed.
<phonex01> [   22.313663] iwlagn 0000:03:00.0: request for firmware file 'iwlwifi-5000-1.ucode' failed.
<phonex01> [   22.313680] iwlagn 0000:03:00.0: no suitable firmware found!
<phonex01> [   22.313896] iwlagn 0000:03:00.0: PCI INT A disabled
<MartijnVdS> phonex01: did you install a custom kernel?
<MartijnVdS> phonex01: or did you remove a firmware package?
<phonex01> i made an update
<phonex01> from update tool
<MartijnVdS> phonex01: which version of Ubuntu?
<phonex01> 10.10
<phonex01> so ?
<MartijnVdS> phonex01: did you remove the linux-firmware or linux-firmware-nonfree package?
<MartijnVdS> phonex01: did you check launchpad for an existing bug? You can't be the only one if it's a packaging bug
<phonex01> no i did not
 * HazRPG playing too much portal2, trying to finish it
<brobostigon> good evening HazRPG :)
<HazRPG> brobostigon: good evening :)
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: Where are you (in the game)
<HazRPG> I have a potato in my hand!
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: ah, there :)
<HazRPG> as in 2nd time holding the potato :)
<HazRPG> she was on a switch
<brobostigon> http://www.androidauthority.com/android-officially-cooler-than-iphone-13348/
<HazRPG> seems to be a bug in wine1.3
<HazRPG> steam wouldn't load at all (kept saying that it was installed badly)
<JGJones> Finished Portal 2...
<JGJones> and it's awesome :)
<MartijnVdS> JGJones: \o/
<HazRPG> and when I tried to reinstall msiexec.exe is broked
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: remove ~/.wine and try again ;)
<JGJones> Now I get why all that Potato references prior to the game :)
<MartijnVdS> JGJones: did you find the easter eggs? :)
<JGJones> MartijnVdS, I found the musical sentries
<MartijnVdS> JGJones: and the drydock?
<JGJones> hmm drydock...no don't think so...
<JGJones> a drydock...underground?
<ant_> sslserver
<JGJones> I do wonder about the ending of Portal 2, but won't discuss (no spoilers)
<JGJones> MartijnVdS, Damn you...I'm gonna have to fire up portal 2 to look for the drydock. Any clues to where to look? :)
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: It's fine, loaded back up wine1.2 and its all good again
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: however, still annoying that I can't play portal 2 inside of linux without using the stupid crack :(
 * HazRPG wants to do co-op
<davmor2> HazRPG: no come on....Tesco and Sainsbury's will get jealous if you on do co-op
<HazRPG> xD
<davmor2> s/on/only
<ali1234> popey: i've got a question about hw certification actually...
<ali1234> but i can't fit it in 140 characters
<davmor2> ali1234: okay try 10 on here instead :)
<ali1234> so... if a piece of hardware like a notebook will be certified, what does it really mean? does it mean that every piece of hardware in it works, or does it mean that "just the ones we tested" works?
<popey> great question, perfect
<ali1234> for example a laptop might have thumbprint reader or other unusual hardware
<ali1234> if that's not on the list of "things to be tested" will it work?
<ali1234> or laptops with multi-gpu
<popey> also good
<popey> have noted these
<ali1234> i suspect that certification just means "passes this list of tests"
<ali1234> where the tests are things like it boots up to login screen, sound works, network card works etc
<ali1234> and unusual hardware won't be tested
<ali1234> but i think there should be a mark that tells me that everything works
<ali1234> not just the basics
<davmor2> popey: does it cover all iterations of that model number, ie hp g62 is a model but might have 101 102 103 as series number that have different hardware even thought they are all called hp g62
<popey> thanks
<AlanBell> popey: does it also cover the sales process, i.e. if something is "Ubuntu friendly" you would expect the sales team to actually allow you to buy it
<AlanBell> popey: is there a specific logo that an OEM will be permitted to print on the box if it is friendly?
<AlanBell> if the friendlyness of the system is assessed by the community then that neccessarily means that it occurs after the launch of the product
<AlanBell> which in turn means the packaging is designed already
<AlanBell> which means it can't have a logo on the box
<AlanBell> which means the sales staff will deny it works with Ubuntu
<ali1234> well "friendlyness" is a bit subjective anyway, isn't it?
<AlanBell> it is
<ali1234> better to limit it to something that can be well defined ie driver support imo
<AlanBell> popey: does it work for peripherals too?
<AlanBell> I have purchased printers before and gone into a retailer and asked if a particular model works with Linux
<AlanBell> they have *no clue*
<ali1234> to be fair you could ask them just about anything, and if it isn't written on the box they won't know
<ali1234> "does this printer support postscript?"
<ali1234> "does this TV support component video?"
<ali1234> it's why box logos are actually important...
<jibadeeha> lol i share your experience ali1234
<AlanBell> agreed
<exobuzz> they know all about selling extended warranties
<Myrtti> meh
<jibadeeha> i find myself trying to dodge them in the shop .. you can see them approaching you in your peripheral vision
<jibadeeha> "it's got gigabytes and megabytes, and can do everything"
<daubers> exobuzz: They don't like it when you point out the flaws in said warrenties though
<daubers> jibadeeha: More fun to wind them up
<exobuzz> :)
<jibadeeha> lol too true daubers
<daubers> jibadeeha: I saw someone trying to sell someone a netbook over a macbook pro as "It's got windows on it, so it's a thousand times mor capable than the macbook"
<exobuzz> i get annoyed when people mix up memory/hd size
<daubers> They frowned at me when I broke out in laughter
<jibadeeha> daubers, a thousand times lol
<jibadeeha> exobuzz, like "it has 250GB of memory"
<exobuzz> daubers, although that's no more stupid than how jobs sold the ipad as "more intimate than a netbook" as if computer intimacy is the top of everyones specs list
<exobuzz> more functional than an iphone and more intimate than a netbook he said. so basically, better than an iphone and not as good as a netbook ;-)
<jibadeeha> i still can't see where i would use an ipad, but i still want one or something similar .. have been looking at the Asus EEE pad which is a netbook and tablet
<Pendulum> exobuzz: you mean you don't sleep with your computer?
<jibadeeha> lol exobuzz
<exobuzz> Pendulum, just my c64.. after all, what else could the userport be fo
<exobuzz> for
<exobuzz> nothing is as intimate as my c64, although the "rubber" speccy can be fun if that is your fetish heh
<dwatkins> I had a BBC Micro back then.
<exobuzz> dwatkins, nerd ;-)
<gordonjcp> ooo
<dwatkins> exobuzz: yep :)
<exobuzz> i bet you always did your homework too!
<gordonjcp> I've got one of those
<gordonjcp> *somewhere*
<dwatkins> gordonjcp: I still own mine, it's at a friend's house.
<dwatkins> We converted it so it looked more like a PC...
<jibadeeha> i always had a thing for my rubber speccy and kempston joystick
<exobuzz> mwaha i switched the topic to 8 bit puting again.
<gordonjcp> dwatkins: I found a BBC Master Compact in the boot of a car in a scrapyard once
<dwatkins> ...and put a sticker on the front saying 'my other computer is a cray'
<gordonjcp> dwatkins: and I should have a couple of BBC Model Bs
<dwatkins> gordonjcp: sadly I'm not surprised
<exobuzz> elite on the bbc master! awesome
<jibadeeha> is there an elite like game for Linux i wonder
<dwatkins> One of the first apps I install on each new machine: BeebEm
<dwatkins> yeah, jibadeeha - oolite
<ali1234> !info oolite
<lubotu3> oolite (source: oolite): space-sim game Oolite ported to GNUStep/OpenGL linux. In component universe, is optional. Version 1.65-7 (maverick), package size 738 kB, installed size 1768 kB
<jibadeeha> time to try oolite
<ali1234> it's very good
<ali1234> upgraded graphics without ruining the feel of the original
<ali1234> there's an addon pack with high detail ships which you definitely need to get
<dwatkins> The Maste 128 version of Elite was neat.
<gordonjcp> well, the Archimedes was basically the same but with shaded polys
<exobuzz> yeh arch version is decent too
<gordonjcp> I liked the dual-mode screen trick
<dwatkins> I still havn't gotten around to getting an Archimedes.
<dwatkins> I tried emulators, but they seemed half-done.
<jibadeeha> oolite looks fantastic ... guess what i am doing on Friday while the missus watches the wedding
<gordonjcp> dwatkins: I *had* an A3000, no idea where it is
<gordonjcp> I may have given it to someone
<exobuzz> archs can be picked up pretty cheap on ebay
<jibadeeha> anyone remember Timegate - loved that game on the speccy
<dwatkins> gordonjcp: nice, I look forward to having the space for one
<gordonjcp> exobuzz: 8-bit computing sucks
<gordonjcp> exobuzz: I prefer 12-bit computing
<exobuzz> jibadeeha, yeh elite vs royal wedding. its like no competition.
<exobuzz> gordonjcp, pdp ?
<gordonjcp> oolite basically looks like Archimedes Elite with a bit of GL blur
<gordonjcp> exobuzz: PDP8, yeah
<gordonjcp> I'd love to get a real one
<gordonjcp> failing that, build a clone
<jibadeeha> exobuzz, i might spend a day just playing spectrum games .. the graphics were not good but those games are really playable
<gordonjcp> I had a PDP11/73 which is 16-bit
<exobuzz> gordonjcp, heh. got the space ?
<ali1234> funny thing about oolite is they added the ability to buy different ships - but it turns out cobra mk III is the best ship anyway
<exobuzz> jibadeeha, did you like chaos ?
<gordonjcp> exobuzz: well a DECMate is desktop PC sized, but has a PDP8-compatible processor
<dwatkins> ali1234: have you played Frontier Elite II?
<jibadeeha> we had Archimedes at school ... it use to run RiscOS
<ali1234> yes frontier sucks
<dwatkins> They made a PDP11 built into a desk.
<exobuzz> i lost a year on frontier elite 2. i liked it
<gordonjcp> jibadeeha: Timegate!
<ali1234> frontier = how not to update a classic game
<jibadeeha> exobuzz, loved it .. but then again i love all the old games
<ali1234> oolite = how to do it right
<jibadeeha> gordonjcp, Timegate was an absolute classic
<exobuzz> jibadeeha, my other fave agme - starquake
<gordonjcp> jibadeeha: that was stunning
<jibadeeha> exobuzz, oh not tried that ... have you played chronus .. similar to defender
<exobuzz> jibadeeha, rings a bell so i may well have done. ill check it out
<ali1234> oolite ships addon: http://wiki.alioth.net/index.php/Griff_Industries
<dwatkins> haha, the previous version of oolite is apparently *more* prone to crashing than the current beta
<jibadeeha> exobuzz, whoops it is chronos not chronus - mastertronic 1987
<gordonjcp> exobuzz: I wrote a PDP8 emulator, but it sucks a bit
<exobuzz> starquake on the spectrum. quality game http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUfKZvfLhWk
<exobuzz> jibadeeha, aah tim follin music nice!
<exobuzz> r-type on the spectrum was a decent conversion
<exobuzz> gordonjcp, linkage ?
<jibadeeha> exobuzz, starquake looks great - love that type of game.. it reminds me of sabrewulf which is one of my all time favourites
<exobuzz> the ultimate stuff was erm stephen crows inspiration partly. there is a 6 page starquake special in this months "retro gamer" mag
<gordonjcp> exobuzz: I'd need to find it
<gordonjcp> exobuzz: and then work out how to make it compile in GCC4
<exobuzz> gordonjcp, no rush ;-) heh
<exobuzz> starquake speccy version was much better than the c64 - even the sound was better, which is unusual
<exobuzz> but then thats often the case with conversion done by other people i guess
<jibadeeha> exobuzz, turns out i've got a starquak.sna in my games directory so going to try it
<exobuzz> :) its quite involved. huge map
<exobuzz> great fun exploring
<mgdm> Starquack. Now there's a name for a game.
<jibadeeha> exobuzz, you remember those maps people use to publish in YS
<exobuzz> yeh
<jibadeeha> exobuzz, mine never ever got published lol
<exobuzz> jibadeeha, for what game ?
<exobuzz> or you did many ?
<jibadeeha> exobuzz, where time stood still
<exobuzz> aah yeh i remember that. same engine as the great escape right ?
<jibadeeha> exobuzz, oh and great escape, sabrewulf
<dutchie> anyone know if it is possible to make gnome-screensaver use a webpage as a screensaver?
<jibadeeha> exobuzz, yeah denton designs i think .. two great games imho
<exobuzz> great escape was fab. and challenging
<jibadeeha> the wire cutters and chocolate bar
<exobuzz> dutchie, http://www.bitsonwire.com/?p=209
<dutchie> exobuzz: that seems kludgy
<hamitron> pie?
<DJones> pie not :)
<AlanBell> the live podcast is going on now
<hamitron> I can't bring myself to use something called "podcast", sounds too apple for me :/
<BigRedS> haha, yeah, it always seems like it should have superscript tm after it
<exobuzz> dutchie, gnome-screensaver is useless. that's the problem
<dwatkins> yeah, I much prefer xscreensaver, especially the glmatrix one
<jibadeeha> dwatkins, is that the matrix one that shows the characters fading in and out?
<dwatkins> yeah jibadeeha - very nice, especially as a background with the option to not turn it around
<dwatkins> jibadeeha: http://rowla.dyndns.org/gallery/v/screenshots/glmatrix_desktop.png.html
<jibadeeha> dwatkins, i use to use that but once upgraded ubuntu and it vanished and replaced it with a 3d rotational matrix type screen saver which isn't as good
<dwatkins> yeah, the rotation makes me a little dizzy, so I disable it
<jibadeeha> dwatkins, ah that is the one i am using now, but i don't think it is as good as the old one i used where the matrix characters like Neo and Agent Smith appear
<dwatkins> ah matrixview
<dwatkins> each to their own :)
<jibadeeha> thanks dwatkins - was wondering what it was called
<dwatkins> you're welcome, jibadeeha
<jibadeeha> dwatkins, just tried MatrixView and on seconds thoughts it is not as good as i remember it to be ..GLMatrix is better lol
<dwatkins> jibadeeha: I'm glad you think so too ;)
<AlanBell> you can now (as of 10 minutes ago) select the Ubuntu font in Google Docs
<mgdm> nice
<shauno> good lord.  that sony thing's gonna be big news in the morning
<Azelphur> indeed
<AlanBell> dear everyone, hope you don't have a PS3, love Sony
<bigcalm> I don't, quite pleased about it too :)
<brobostigon> lol
<AlanBell> PS2 and Wii for us
<bigcalm> Same here, though I can't remember the last time I used my PS2
<shauno> not sure I'd go as far as pleased.  egg on sony's face, sure.  but that's pure suckage for 50-75 million customers
<dwatkins> What happened? Last I heard the Playstation Network was down.
<shauno> http://blog.us.playstation.com/2011/04/26/update-on-playstation-network-and-qriocity/
<AlanBell> http://faq.en.playstation.com/cgi-bin/scee_gb.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?locale=en_GB&p_faqid=5593
<dwatkins> thanks
<shauno> short version; full data breach, account details, billing details, possibily creditcard details
<AlanBell> really short version: p0wned
<dwatkins> That's a rather large oops, I wonder if it will affect people as much as the RSA break-in.
<brobostigon> good night everyone, sleep well.
<AlanBell> people have heard of the playstation network
<dwatkins> nn brobostigon
<brobostigon> night dwatkins
<bigcalm> Night brobostigon
<brobostigon> night bigcalm
<dwatkins> AlanBell: RSA make one-time password dongles for US military contractors and many others - when the break-in happened, they switched to Verisign, I gather.
<AlanBell> yes, but still that doesn't affect "people"
<dwatkins> true, AlanBell
<shauno> the scariest part of the RSA breach is that they still have no idea what was & wasn't taken
<Azelphur> I'm loving it myself, hopefully it'll loose sony tonnes of money
<Azelphur> :p
<bigcalm> Insurance
<bigcalm> AlanBell: what effects "people" is the Ubuntu font!
<AlanBell> that affects people
 * hamitron has NEVER bothered changing fonts
<AlanBell> to good effect
<ali1234> lol sony
<popey> indeed
<ali1234> the real story is that it looks like the intrusion was enabled by the jailbreaking of the console itself
<ali1234> what this means is you should never trust any "cloud" service that requires you do use closed clients to access it
<ali1234> because there's probably a reason why they do that, and it's never a good one
<ali1234> note that i said "trust" not "use"
<ali1234> use PSN if you want but don't put your real name and CC into it
<Azelphur> this is why I like paypal for payments, as much as paypal is evil and messed up, they have pretty good security when it comes to payments
<ali1234> well yeah
<ali1234> they are compatible with any web browser
<ali1234> if they said "if you want to use paypal you have to use this piece of software which we don't release the source for" then i would be highly suspicious
<Azelphur> indeed
<shauno> just don't keep a positive balance with them, else you'll discover how boneheaded that security can be :)
<Azelphur> ali1234: more that even if someone did get my paypal payment information, they can only request a payment from me, not take a fradulant one.
<Azelphur> shauno: indeed
<popey> i have a paypal account I can't get money out of because they changed the ToC and demands some paperwork it's impossible for me to provide
<ali1234> Azelphur: what if someone breaks into paypal servers and gets your CC or bank details, name, address etc
<hamitron> Azelphur: even if they get your password?
<Azelphur> popey: indeed, hense the evil and messed up statement xD
<ali1234> paypal stores your details for payments just like PSN does
<Azelphur> hamitron: no but you don't have to give someone your password for a payment
<Azelphur> with a CC you give them the CC number and they can withdraw any amount they feel like whenever they like
<Azelphur> with paypal, they can only request a payment and you have to authorize it
<shauno> popey: I've got an account I can't pull funds from because they want the last 4 digits of a credit card that expired in 2002.
<hamitron> but your bank is normally reasonably helpful when it happens tbh
<Azelphur> hamitron: not with debit cards I hear?
<shauno> I don't know anyone who keeps old cards around that long :/
<hamitron> shauno: are you not asked to destroy them? ;)
<Azelphur> lol
<shauno> my bank's normally pretty on the ball with debit too.  I think the main fear with debit is they're taking your money, not the banks', so there's less pushing the banks to act
<Azelphur> what would be nice, if credit cards did a more paypal-ish type thing
<shauno> but, I've never had a problem with it myself
<Azelphur> where when a payment was requested you got emailed and had to authorize the payment
<Azelphur> that'd be so win
<hamitron> my sister had a problem with vodaphone withdrawing money twice, the bank reversed it no probs
<shauno> v4v does something similar, but I don't know if that works over here
<Azelphur> hamitron: nice
<ali1234> my bank does that already
<hamitron> they even refunded the unautherised overdraft charges
<ali1234> except that they don't email me, they ring me up the next day and ask if i really bought that
<Azelphur> lol
<ali1234> but this is probably because i only use my card about twice a year
<hamitron> ali1234: yeh, my Dad cba to use his anymore cuz of it :D
<Azelphur> indeed
<hamitron> gets some paki he can't understand on the phone
<shauno> mine are usually on the ball.  which can be annoying because I'm pretty nocturnal at times.  but I can't make significant purchases online at 4am
<hamitron> and gets annoyed
<Azelphur> I'm thinking of switching, Satander just bought out my bank :(
<Azelphur> and everyone pretty much universally agrees they are terrible
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> name a good bank? ;/
<Azelphur> haha
<Azelphur> dunno, I've heard good things about barclays
<shauno> that is one side, being able to understand people.  if I call my bank, I get thru to dublin.  I honestly find the indian subcontinent easier to understand
<popey> Smile
<popey> Egg
<popey> Co-Op
<popey> Allegedly good banks
<popey> never used any of them :)
<popey> (agree Santander are utterly useless)
<Azelphur> smile, the internet bank :o
<hamitron> shauno: i just expect someone local to where I am :/
<ali1234> i use barclays
<Azelphur> sounds like my sort of thing
<ali1234> always get understandable people when they call me
<ali1234> no idea where they are based but i can understand them
<Azelphur> Covers up to 4 handsets in your household to the value of Â£600 each (including VAT) for theft, loss or damage.
<Azelphur> shiny :D
<hamitron> is it Natwest that let you talk to your local branch manager?
<shauno> I don't want to talk to a manager.  I want someone who'll answer the phone at 4am :)
<hamitron> haha shauno
<ali1234> but my original point was, since paypal have to deal with standard browsers, they have to make their servers secure
<ali1234> with PSN, it's looking suspiciously like the majority of the security was in the console
<hamitron> is it a good idea having your address verified on paypal?
<ali1234> i never needed it so i never verifired
<shauno> it doesn't make any difference for most people
<Azelphur> xD
<ali1234> no longer have a paypal account though
<Azelphur> hamitron: yea most people won't deal with you without it
<shauno> if you're accepting payments, it's nice to have.  makes you look more like you might exist
<Azelphur> shauno: a lot of ebayers won't deal with unverified users too
<hamitron> I have all mine verified and linked with one of my accounts
<shauno> Azelphur: I've never had a problem with that at all
<hamitron> ah, I think that is maybe why I did it
<Azelphur> I see o.O
<ali1234> i never even noticed if the people i bought from were verified or not
<hamitron> I bought a motorbike using paypal
<hamitron> :)
<shauno> I did it on my last account, because I was selling some stuff on ebay.  didn't stop them taking the account for kicks and giggles :/
<hamitron> :\
<ali1234> if you have money trapped in paypal, why can't you just make a new account and transfer the money?
<shauno> because your money's not trapped in the new account
<Azelphur> ^
<hamitron> "gift" Â£100s across? ;/
<ali1234> so you can't even buy things with that paypal?
<Azelphur> ali1234: yea, they entirely lock the account down
<shauno> I can't even login to it confirm what the balance was
<popey> i cant move the money
<popey> i can login to the old account
<ali1234> sue em
<hamitron> why would they lock it?
 * popey tries to remember the password
<Azelphur> ali1234: there's some serious horror stories with paypal, long story short if you use them do not keep anything in your balance
<Azelphur> get it moved to your bank asap :P
<ali1234> i know
<shauno> hamitron: I failed a 'random' check because I couldn't provide the details for a card that hadn't existed for 8 years
<Azelphur> sometimes they'll even reverse bank transfers, that said
<Azelphur> shauno: lol
<hamitron> shauno: :/
<hamitron> I think I may go check none of my old cards are in there :)
<shauno> I may still have the email chain somewhere, where they sent me back the same form reply 6 or 7 times, while my replies got more and more insulting
<shauno> until I finally decided $20 wasn't worth it
<ali1234> small claims
<shauno> I can't do small claims
<ali1234> wrong country?
<shauno> yeah.  paypal-us and -eu are separate legal entities.  I'd have to go back to the US to do so
<Azelphur> the other day I got locked out of my paypal account
<Azelphur> they sent me an email saying "On , we attempted to transfer  from your bank account, ending in . This transfer was returned by your bank on  for the reason below: There was a bank processing error. "
<hamitron> 1 thing that annoys me with paypal
<Azelphur> I havn't removed the information, that's actually what they sent me, so they tried to withdraw null from the account ending in null on null, and it failed, so they locked down my account
<Azelphur> xD
<hamitron> I have an account and CC on it
<hamitron> and the CC can't be selected as the primary payment method
<ali1234> how about those pre-pay credit cards? anyone used those?
<shauno> yeah.  used one called 3v for a while.  not that annoying, really
<Azelphur> popey: just looked at smile, it has a Â£250/day limit on the debit cards which seems kinda crap :(
<Azelphur> I dunno what the limit is on my A&L card, but I've done 1.3k in one day on it.
<Azelphur> that was in one payment, too \o/
<hamitron> limits are nice to have, until you need to break them
<Azelphur> indeed
<Azelphur> I do break Â£250, As a gadgety person I do spend more than Â£250 in one spot every now and again.
<hamitron> Azelphur: did you sort out your modem and router?
<hamitron> or routers
<Azelphur> hamitron: nah, my dad stole the router/internet connection
<Azelphur> :(
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> well
<Azelphur> gonna order a third phone line tomorrow most likely \o/
<hamitron> haha
<hamitron> I have a dd-wrt router also, with just an ethernet wan port
<ali1234> how do i organize the icons on unity launcher?
<Azelphur> hamitron: yea, I still have my DD-WRT router with the ethernet wan port
<Azelphur> hamitron: how do you connect it to ADSL, what do you use as a bridge?
<hamitron> is there a way for a "modem" to convert my PPPoA to PPPoE for my router? without the modem collecting the IP level info
<ali1234> yes
<hamitron> my reason for wondering is.... support for IPv6
<Azelphur> hamitron: I believe A/E is the same thing, I've never had issues dialing E on my connection that's supposed to be A
<hamitron> ali1234: what is it called?
<ali1234> A is not over ethernet
<Azelphur> true :p
<Azelphur> but it works *shrug*
<popey> ali1234: hold down mouse, pull away from left
<hamitron> I want my "modem" to convert my routers signal from ethernet to ATM
<ali1234> no it doesn't, if it does, your routers interface is just confused
<popey> move down/up to place it
<Azelphur> ali1234: dd-wrt is clearly confused :D
<ali1234> popey: what?
<popey> 23:33:51 < ali1234> how do i organize the icons on unity launcher?
<ali1234> yeah
<ali1234> how do i move up/down?
<popey> hold down mouse on an icon, pull it to the right
<popey> then move it up/down
<ali1234> oh
<ali1234> i see
<ali1234> well that's not very obvious
<Azelphur> hamitron: but yea I'd be interested in a proper way to do it so lemme know what you come up with
<hamitron> Azelphur: my modem/router has loads of options
<Azelphur> -631152000
<Azelphur> whoops.
<hamitron> just not sure how to read the definitions
<hamitron> :/
<Azelphur> as to quite how I managed to paste there when I was nowhere near V I have no idea o.O
<hamitron> like, it has a bridge option....
<ali1234> anything that has a adsl modem in it supports pppoa
<hamitron> ali1234: my 2nd router does not
<ali1234> how does it connect to adsl then?
<hamitron> I want my first router to do the ATM part, then 2nd router to do the PPP and IP
<hamitron> atm, my 1st router is in half-bridge mode
<ali1234> pppoa = ppp over telephone lines
<ali1234> pppoe = ppp over ethernet cable
<hamitron> I know
<ali1234> if you get adsl over telephone cable, you are using pppoa
<hamitron> and how do i convert between the 2?
<hamitron> using a router
<ali1234> you install a pppoe server on the router 1
<ali1234> then set up router 2 to use it
<hamitron> and router 1 then gets no IP?
<ali1234> presumably if you set it up right
<hamitron> so i can't bridge the PPPoE to PPPoA?
<ali1234> ppp isn't a type of protocol that can be bridged
<hamitron> so router 1 just forwards the PPP authentification
<ali1234> it is point to point
<hamitron> can't something sit between the 2 points?
<ali1234> yes
<ali1234> but that isn't bridging
<hamitron> what is it called?
<ali1234> i dunno. proxying?
<hamitron> I can set my router 1 to connect to the dsl link without PPP
<hamitron> then just need the PPP from the router 2 to get sent and communicate directly
<hamitron> but the docs for router 1 are poor to say the least
<ali1234> no
<ali1234> you won't be able to do this with standard firmware on a consumer router
<ali1234> best you will get is a half bridge which has nothing to do with ppp at all
<hamitron> half-bridge doesn't solve my lack of IPv6 problem
<hamitron> :/
<ali1234> yes
<ali1234> you will have to buy a new modem or hack the one you have
<hamitron> my problem is, dunno what I am looking for....
<hamitron> the name of the function
<ali1234> you are looking for a modem that supports ipv6... why complicate it?
<hamitron> I don't wanna spend more money
<hamitron> ;/
<ali1234> so hack the modem... install ipv6 support
<ali1234> or hack the modem, install a weird ppp bodge
<ali1234> which sounds easier?
<hamitron> ppp bodge
<hamitron> ;/
<shauno> or just wait until your isp does ipv6 and let them buy you one :)
<ali1234> the ISP must already support ipv6 for this to work
<ali1234> if you are using a tunnel then the routers are irrelevant
<hamitron> it doesn't
<hamitron> atm I use a tunnel, but want to be ready when the ISP change
<shauno> eh, tunnels don't make the router irrelevant
<shauno> my router's my endpoint
<ali1234> and routers prior to the endpoint are irrelevant
<shauno> prior to the endpoint is just a modem.  the router does the work.  it's meant to :)
<hamitron> so what is the bridge function on a router?
<hamitron> :/
<shauno> sticking the endpoint on your desktop because your router's lame is just a bodge
<ali1234> if you're talking about a setting labelled "bridge" in the webif of a consumer router, it could mean just about anything
<ali1234> shauno: he has two routers
<ali1234> shauno: currently configured for half bridge
<ali1234> this won't affect running a tunnel endpoint on router 2 at all
<hamitron> tbh, just hoping C&W move into my exchange sometime
<hamitron> then will get a new router and forget all this complicated setup rubbish
<hamitron> wrt54gl can then be a toy :))
#ubuntu-uk 2011-04-27
<shauno> c&w isn't cable & wireless is it?  I thought they were gone
<hamitron> gone?
<hamitron> doesn't thus use it?
<ali1234> they still exist as a wholesale providor
<ali1234> and yes thus uses it
<ali1234> it's ntl that doesn't exist any more
<ali1234> they bought a large part of C&W but not all ofit
<shauno> ahok
<hamitron> I want Demon Business 2+
<hamitron> :)
<ali1234> hamitron: since you use demon you have static IP, so you can use 6to4
<shauno> didn't realise it'd gone in chunks.  just knew in newcastle it went from c&w to telewest to ntl to virgin
<hamitron> ali1234: I can
<hamitron> but I don't like half-bridge
<ali1234> so don't use it
<ali1234> throw out router number 2
<hamitron> I just have visions of it going wrong
<ali1234> just use number 1
<hamitron> number 1 crashes with too much load, can't do NAT
<hamitron> ;)
<ali1234> ok so in reality this has nothing to do with ipv6
<hamitron> it does
<hamitron> as well as
<hamitron> the whole picture is.... want this mess sorted out
<hamitron> haha
<ali1234> no. because the half-bridge is not affecting your ability to use ipv6 at all
<hamitron> 6to4 is a temp solution init?
<ali1234> yes, so is tunneling
<hamitron> yeh
<ali1234> they will both work with your current setup
<hamitron> I want a router with native IPv6 to be ready to receive IP from the ISP
<hamitron> yep
<ali1234> so....... buy one
<hamitron> if I have to buy another router, gonna wait longer
<hamitron> see what services are in my local area
<ali1234> probably a good idea
<hamitron> only got ADSL Max atm
<hamitron> but my main worry is I am not always at home
<hamitron> and I have to rely on people who stupid, even by newbs standards
<hamitron> and females like to clean too much, knock cables :/
<hamitron> maybe best idea is to just make a box, put everything in it and label it "get off"
<hamitron> ali1234: I desperately want C&W in my exchange, so i can renew the ISP contract, and know what I'll be using for the next 2 years
<hamitron> also will cost less per month
<hamitron> other options are sky and talktalk ;/
<hamitron> anyways
<hamitron> coffee time \o/
<hamitron> brb
<hamitron> bk
<shauno> just figured out my router does snmp, so I've pointed mrtg at it.  see what that comes up with
<fred> morning y'all
<hamitron> evening
<shauno> this is when my sleep pattern comes back to bite me.  job interview tomorrow, and not remotely tired :/
<hamitron> :\
<hamitron> at least if you get it.... should sort out the problem? :)
<shauno> unlikely.  it doesn't stop me when I work at 6am either :)
<hamitron> haha
<hamitron> no self control....
<hamitron> says me, still going strong :/
<shauno> it'll mean no more shift work tho :)  no more bank holidays, working xmas, etc
<hamitron> ffs, 94Kb/s is just too slow for some downloads :/
<hamitron> I should just move house
<Sonique> Hi
<Sonique> I have a question about the minimal and alternate install CDs.
<Sonique> When I to install a command line version of Ubuntu for either of them, my network/ethernet card is not detected (JMicron jmc250)
<Sonique> And the installation won't proceed because of this.
<Sonique> I have tried reading through numerous forum threads on ubuntuforums..
<Sonique> However, I haven't come across a solution that works
<Sonique> There is even a launchpad bug that keeps being turned down as invalid: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/400297?comments=all
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 400297 in linux (Ubuntu) "patch for JMicron jmc250 and jmc260 ethernet card" [Undecided,New]
<Sonique> Sorry got disconnected.
<Sonique> Yes! That is the bug (our chats crossed) :)
<Sonique> I actually went to the JMicron site and downloaded the ethernet driver for this card
<Sonique> The question is can I somehow integrate this driver into either the minimal iso or the alternate cd?
<Sonique> Sort of a slipstream...
<Sonique> Ubuntu bug 400297 doesn't give me any workable solution for Maverick Meerkat (10.10)
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 400297 in linux (Ubuntu) "patch for JMicron jmc250 and jmc260 ethernet card" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/400297
<Sonique> yikes
<Sonique> so that was a robot
<Sonique> hahah
<Sonique> I thought someone actually was reading what I was on about
<Sonique> Guess no
<Sonique> t
<AlanBell> morning all
<shauno> morning
<TheOpenSourcerer> Meauning
<daubers> o/
<danfish> o/
<ali1234> well the mac mini turned up
<ali1234> i dunno why they have to make these things so hard to use
<danfish> how so?
<ali1234> how do i boot it from CD?
<danfish> from memory, press and hold down c on boot
<ali1234> yes that's really obvious
<danfish> :)
<ali1234> i have to reset the admin password
<ali1234> i hope forcing a password reset from the install cd doesn't do anything silly like wipe the keys for an encrypted volume
<shauno> only if you're using filevault :)
<ali1234> i dunno what the person is using
<ali1234> well, they should have backed up their stuff before they sent it to me
<shauno> you can start a shell from the same menu you do the password change from
<ali1234> why would i want to do that?
<shauno> if you see files in /User/them/ that look normal (documents, music, etc), they're not using filevault
<ali1234> it's giving me a warning about unlocking the keyring
<shauno> yeah.  changing the password from the CD won't unlock that either
<ali1234> well that's ok i only need to install the app store and create a user account for myself
<shauno> so you won't have stored passwords for their email, wireless networks, etc
<ali1234> ok i am confused
<ali1234> apple website says to get the app store i just run software update
<ali1234> but it's not on the list of updates to be installed
<MooDoo> hello all
<shauno> it's part of one of the OS updates.  I believe 10.6.6
<shauno> if you bring the OS up to current, it'll just appear.  it's not done piecemeal
<ali1234> damn the updates are like 2GB
<ali1234> then i have to download 4GB xocde
<ali1234> that will put me over my monthly usage limit
<ali1234> this sucks
<ali1234> i hate macs
<shauno> yeah.  they should just make their updates out of fairy dust like other OSes, rather than downloading data.  that's so clunky
<daubers> Did berlios.de die?
<daubers> ali1234: You can download the updates from somewhere else
<daubers> ali1234: http://support.apple.com/kb/dl1349
<CaveMan> Richard_P
 * Mez signs
<ali1234> daubers: it's still 1GB
 * Mez sighs too
<Mez> Anyone wanna rewrite my CV for me ? (It's something I'm going to have to do again)
<shauno> I think he means physically somewhere else.  eg, grab them at work if bandwidth is an issue
<shauno> still, retail to current is 1.2Gb.  you shouldn't have to do that much unless it's been a 18 months since anyone updated the machine
<ali1234> i'm at work
<ali1234> i'm also at home
<wintellect> Mornin all
<ali1234> anyway the updates are monolithic
<ali1234> any version not current -> current = 1GB download
<DJones> Mez: Enforced job change?
<daubers> ali1234: What version are you running now?
<ali1234> 10.6.3
<ali1234> since it's owned by a normal person it has probably not been updated since it was bought
<Mez> DJones: Nah - Google Recruiter :)
<Mez> (they made me update my CV last time to be very specific - so I'm going to make sure I get it right to to them first time round this time :)
<shauno> I know it's not gonna stop you whining, but they're monolithic for a reason.  you can download them granular, but it sucks.  10.6.3->.4 (720Mb) -> .5 (600Mb) ->.6 (150Mb) -> .7 (475Mb) ..
<DJones> Mez: Agencies always make me laugh when they want specific things on the cv you send them, then they send something completely different to potential employers anyway
<Myrtti> oof
<Myrtti> 4000 job reductions being negotiated at Nokia Finland :-(
<Myrtti> oh no, only 1400 in Finland...
<Myrtti> only... :-(
<bigcalm> :(
<Mez> DJones: no - this is google - they basically previously asked me to cut out the cruft (the jobs that weren't related to IT) and add in all my IT related volunteering stuff (DD, etc etc)
<ali1234> "we read your CV and we'd like to hire you, but first, please rewrite your CV"
<Myrtti> google recruiters are fun, tried recruiting me too
<Myrtti> dont know why, I still cant programme
<Mez> ali1234: actually, it was more so that when they passed it on to other people - they have more concise info.
<Mez> Myrtti: you don't need to program :)
<Mez> Myrtti: How far did you get along the recruitment process (and this is the second time round for me)
<Myrtti> well thats what the email said, looking for php python java c++
<oimon> Good 1st quarter results for ARM today: "Shipments of ARM-processor-based chips increased 33pc on the same period last year"
<oimon> interestingly they mention AMD: "AMD is a company that is very capable of deploying ARM technology"
<Myrtti> I didnt even bother to reply the email, Ive got too much other stuff going on
<Mez> Myrtti: lol - fair enough :)  From what I remember though - last time I applied they were looking for that - and the recruiters initial call determined that I'd be better applying for the SRE team)
<MooDoo> *YAWN*
<oimon> i must say, i've never really considered working at google
 * Mez shoves a sock in MooDoo's mouth
<ali1234> oimon: use gmail for long enough and you'll get the first offer
<oimon> sounds like it takes over your life a bit too much
<ali1234> they'll want you to move to some third world country of course
<oimon> the UK?
<oimon> i'm already here
<Mez> oimon: takes over your life??? Hmm... maybe.. but if you're in a job that you'd do as a hobby....
<bigcalm> What updates /etc/motd?
<oimon> i don't fly anymore, so any job i do can't involve international travel
<MooDoo> thanks Mez what's that for?
<Mez> MooDoo: for yawning
<Mez> bigcalm: a reboot
<MooDoo> Mez: ah lol sorry :)
<Mez> bigcalm: or updatemotd
<popey> Morning all!
<bigcalm> Hi popey!
<MooDoo> morning popey
<ali1234> what os x says more updates? i just updated!
<bigcalm> My motd has been squiffy for a while now: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/599676/
 * bigcalm replaces it with some ascii art
<popey> haha, i see lots of people got the SRE google recruit spam then :)
<bigcalm> ?
<oimon> bigcalm: here's my motd http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/599677/
<bigcalm> \o/
<popey> bigcalm: people here like Mez and Myrtti
<bigcalm> popey: I see
<oimon> you need a name beginning with M
<oimon> popey: what's your opinion on the e-machines Â£99 vs the aspire revo?
<oimon> my old friend mungojerry probably has one
 * oimon misses mungojerry
<Mez> popey: I presume you had it too ?
<bigcalm> The e-machine has N while the Revo only has g
<popey> oimon: offer looks to have finished
<popey> Mez: yeah, i get mail from them now and then
<Mez> popey: never applied?
<popey> nope
<oimon> wow ..i checked at 9 o clock
<oimon> 249 in stock
<oimon> so only 3 were purchased in that time
<oimon> the windows version is Â£100 more
<DJones> Grr, why does the IT support turn up at work when its not to install my new computer, what other reason can be more important
<ali1234> Â£99 is special offer
<ali1234> it normally costs Â£200
<oimon> ali1234: it's all academic now i suppose, i didn't realise the offer only lasted 30 mins
<popey> i dunno how long it lasted
<popey> i just clicked it and the offer seemed ended
<oimon> anyone know how i can dumnp a list of applications installed on my (non-rooted) android phone?
<DJones> oimon: http://atrackdog.a0soft.com/app.php?id=9 says "Export app list for sharing"
<dwatkins> oimon: the market remembers what you've bought, so you can just click the 'download em all' link on a new phone, otherwise it appears you might have to write an app or use DJones' app: http://qtcstation.com/2011/02/how-to-launch-another-app-from-your-app/
<dwatkins> DJones: that looks really handy, thanks
<DJones> dwatkins: From what I could see, it only seems to list after market installs rather than default system apps, but certainly looks useful to know what you've installed
<dwatkins> DJones: yeah, that sounds likely, unfortunately. I think I'd probably install Cyanogenmod if I wiped my phone and started again. The market has a record of what I've added at least, I gather.
<DJones> dwatkins: I'd never realised/noticed that the market kept that info, although I shouldn't be surprised should I, it is google after all
<dwatkins> Yeah, they do like to track stuff.
<DJones> and "by stuff", google mean "everything"
<dwatkins> They certainly have the capacity to track a lot of data.
<gord> google is just curious is all!
<dwatkins> oh is that all they collect the data for? ;)
<gord> google doesn't have anything on Zeitgeist anyway ;)
<dwatkins> The movie?
<gord> the software
<gord> it can know what you did, where you did it, what you were doing at the time and what you did it with
<gord> i miss the days when you could pass a web page into a gtk file open dialogue and it would just work
<oimon> thanks DJones, dwatkins
<oimon> my sis has a new phone so i wanted to recommend some apps
<MartijnVdS> Just the google ones
<oimon> plus the peter griffin soundboard :)
<MartijnVdS> Who?
<oimon> just my little joke :)
<oimon> peter griffin is family guy tc show
<davmor2> morning all
<davmor2> czajkowski: prod
<popey> morning davmor2
<davmor2> morning popey how's life down South?
<popey> Great!
<davmor2> popey: I heard this rumour that some prat has taken to invading the release party with a wedding, I mean pick a day when they put up bunting and the like for the ubuntu release to try and make out it's some grandiose thing pffff
<DJones> davmor2: I heard Kate & Bill picked tomorrow because they knew there was going to be the Ubuntu Natty bank holiday, so all their mates wouldn't need to take a day off work to attend the wedding
<gord> i have enough passwords these days that when logging in to things i don't even bother trying, i just press the "email me my password" option. starting to think that kind of authentication should be the default one
<ali1234> you mean like... SSO?
<oimon> doesn't firefox remember them for you?
<directhex> it's a good case for OpenID
<gord> not always, firefox has to detect websites with passwords and its not always able to
<directhex> also a good case for a password manager like Keepass
<ali1234> it probably would do if i didn't have to delete the firefox settings every three months because it gets too slow
<oimon> yeah :(
<oimon> the profile gets corrupted regularly
<oimon> particularly the history
<oimon> stil prefer it to chromium though for some reason
<popey> gord: lastpass
<dogmatic69> how is Piranha for clustering on ubuntu?
<dogmatic69> is that a good solution?
<directhex> what kind of clustering?
<oimon> just noticing that the PSN hackers also got data of birth and mother's maiden name...you can't go changing those!
<gord> yeah seen that kind of thing before, don't really trust the software
<gord> not to mention, don't want to get my passwords locked into some software
<dogmatic69> directhex: im thinking 2x load balancers (one master + backup) and n servers
<ali1234> irc is good for nut clustering
<davmor2> gord: lastpass plugin for firefox?
<gord> just seems to me that emailing me to ask if i should be allowed to log in is a better authentication method than a password that the website will store in plain text on their server because web devs are terrible terrible people
<gord> not all web devs obviously ;)
<DJones> ali1234: The vet is good for nut unclustering as one of my dogs will confirm later today :D
<ali1234> it *is* a better method
<dogmatic69> i love getting emails after registering... "your username is x and your password is y, please keep it in a safe place"
<awilkins> I presume that's the sarcastic tense of "love"
<SuperMatt> anyone know if the gnome 3 ppa still breaks unity?
<gord> using the gnome 3 ppa is kind of like installing random libraries from natty into maverick, i would not recommend it
<SuperMatt> OK!
<directhex> natty isn't a gnome 3 release, installing a bucket of gnome 3 libs is asking for trouble
<directhex> (sadly)
<directhex> right... time for 11.04 i guess
<gord> well gnome 3 came too late in the cycle, we knew that would be the case six months ago when they delayed it yet again
 * SuperMatt nods
<directhex> it's the first ubuntu version to ship with outdated gnome, afaik
<oimon> "Storing passwords as hashes instead of plain text is now illegal in France"
<dogmatic69> oimon: that is not true
<awilkins> Happily, you're not actually storing the password when you use a hash
<dogmatic69> it can be encrypted
<awilkins> You have to use reversible encryption?
<dogmatic69> awilkins: you could use 'encryption' that is not reversible and blame it on a bug :D
<soneill> sorry - just noticed this conversation - do you have a link to more info on this as it sounds quite interesting?
<dogmatic69> http://tricomts.wordpress.com/2011/04/07/france-to-outlaw-hash-passwords/
<soneill> thanks dogmatic69
<awilkins> http://www.ewanleith.com/blog/116/france-requires-new-silly-data-retention-policies
<dogmatic69> np
<BigRedS> AFAIK, that's Daily mail style reporting
<BigRedS> the actual law is more "If the password is stored in plain text, you need to make it available to law enforcement agencies if they ask"
<directhex> or in sony's case, to anyone!
<popey> s/anyone/everyone
<BigRedS> FWIG, but I'm not French and that's fourth- or fifth- hand translation
<BigRedS> haha
<oimon> BigRedS: i seem to have fallen foul of the mistransalated article
<gord> the whole sony thing is fine, everyones passwords were already known from the gawker thing
<popey> :)
<popey> I had to change all mine thanks to gawker
<popey> glad I did though
<popey> now they're all different
<oimon> BigRedS: it doesn't seem as bad as the dailymail headlines after all
<BigRedS> oimon: most of the english-language press reported it as "md5 banned in france"
<gord> yeah me too, but i'd been procrastinating doing that for a while - more hacks to make me do things please!
<BigRedS> which, I suspect, is because our government *is* daft enough to pass a law like that
<BigRedS> but the French one isn't
<gord> this psn hack has made me set up two stage verification on my gmail address, yay
<oimon> BigRedS: passwords and hashes must be provided if they are stored, and must be kept for one year after
<oimon> gord: ifs the 2 stage verification involving a mobile phone?
<gord> tis
<oimon> i think that would bite me one day
<BigRedS> oimon: yeah, that sounds about right. It's hard to find someone to translate legalese French into peasant's English :)
<oimon> when i'm out of battery
<gord> you get some additional codes that you can print off, good for one use
<oimon> somebody got my mates gmail account and got up to all sorts of shenanigans
<popey> http://www.fastcodesign.com/1663683/far-better-than-3-d-animated-gifs-that-savor-a-passing-moment
<popey> nice
<gord> i saw that a few days ago, it *still* bugs me that they reference 3d. it has nothing to do with 3d >:(
<directhex> the last innovative use of .gif was images which "wobble", and turn 3d if you cross your eyes a little
<BigRedS> gord: it's only using 3D in the sense of "this is better than 3d"
<BigRedS> since 3d is current for 'cool'
<ali1234> it's not better than 3d
<popey> you dont need special glasses to view it :)
<popey> which makes it 'better' in at least one way
<awilkins> I'm kind of tired of people who shout things like "3D is a giant scam!!"
<ali1234> oh, 3d is a giant scam, that is certain
<popey> haha
<popey> in the same way widescreen, dolby digital, HD... were?
<ali1234> no
<ali1234> all of those were an improvement
<popey> a way to get people back into the cinema away from telly?
<ali1234> 3d just looks dumb
<awilkins> I like 3D done well, and I think this generation of tech is the first to do it well
<ali1234> the problem with 3d is it is not really 3d
<ali1234> you can't look behind something
<ali1234> it's very annoying
<DJones> I always liked the sterescopic 3d pictures that were popular in the late 90's
<awilkins> Some films it adds to - "How to Train Your Dragon" was enhanced by it, some films are just rubbish - Beowulf
<awilkins> Besides, how else are they going to prime the R&D pump for the full-holodeck experience without selling massive 3D TVs to everyone :P
 * awilkins notes that he still has a relatively old 28" CRT television that weighs about 50kg
<directhex> ali1234, fixed focal distance is annoying, yes
<directhex> ali1234, it's not an issue in some circumstances, it is in others
<awilkins> I find it helps my waning focal muscles in my right eye by forcing both eyes to focus to see the picture properly
<ali1234> it's not an issue as long as you have your head clamped in a vice while watching the movie
<ali1234> sounds good lol
<davmor2> awilkins: It is?  The 3d is only realistically 2 1/2 d at best.  Until they make holographic projectors where you don't need to look a prat in glasses then it is a big CON!
<czajkowski> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/04/27/nokia_cuts_memo/
<directhex> ali1234, you mentioned movies, not me
<ali1234> also it has nothing to do with fixed focal distance
<ali1234> and everything to do with total lack of parallax motion
 * awilkins is a little peeved at the lack of love for his N900 now
<directhex> awilkins, we have an office filled with n900 owners. and developers, to a degree. nokia news is always "fun"
<ali1234> ^ if any of this news comes as a surprise you haven't been paying attention
<ali1234> nokia pretty much pulled out of meego months ago
<awilkins> Oh hell, yes, not a surprise
<ali1234> despite constant denials, everyone knew it was happening
<ali1234> and they've never supported old devices with updates
<directhex> it does raise interesting questions for contractors with previously signed multi-year contracts
<awilkins> I was even laying the groundwork for trying out the developer image of MeeGo a couple of nights ago
<ali1234> the idea of n900 getting a real meego official and supported install has never been on the table
<ali1234> awilkins: trying meego on n900 is real easy, there is no ground work except for install 1 package and dd an image to an sd card, it takes 5 minutes
<awilkins> ali1234, Yeah, I installed the SD card kernel loader, now my phone boots with a penguin, just didn't get around to preparing the card
<awilkins> It was bedtime
<ali1234> awilkins: i wrote that code :)
<oimon> there seems to be an unnerving similarity in the approach of nokia and my own employer lately
<awilkins> ali1234, Which image do you recommend, sanity or one of the others?
<oimon> nokia are heading all the way down to the bottom
<ali1234> awilkins: dunno, i haven't tried one for ages
<ali1234> awilkins: take the one with the newest timestamp
<ali1234> it's not like they're even at the point of stabilizing yet
<awilkins> ali1234, Yeah, the "won't charge off the charger" thing is worrying
<ali1234> lol, they *still* haven't fixed that?
<awilkins> ali1234, It's not clear whether they have or not
<ali1234> well i wouldn't worry, it won't take you longer than about 5 minutes to realize meego is nowhere near done yet
<awilkins> aand... "MeeGo trunk is broken at the moment, so DE daily images are not working either."
<popey> the n900 was disowned at birth pretty much
<ali1234> that's not really true
<ali1234> it had as many updates as any other nokia device
<popey> i have never seen any assertion otherwise other than by fans who bought one in the hope it would live on
<popey> probably more updates than most
<ali1234> yes
<popey> but the future development of the platform (other than updates) was never really assured
<popey> software updates do not a platform make
<ali1234> yes but the exact same thing happened with n800
<popey> exactly
<popey> so this is hardly surprising
<ali1234> yeah
<popey> its the reason I never bought an n900, despite coveting them greatly
<oimon> i almost bought one
<oimon> because of the great hardware, and promises
<directhex> popey, the n900 was stillborn, thanks to nokia intentionally murdering it
<oimon> but went for the desire mainly due to Â£Â£ difference
<awilkins> Wifelet just got a Desire Z ... I am envious
<popey> within a month of it going on sale I was sure it would go nowhere
<popey> hence buying an android phone
<popey> (HAH!)
<oimon> i am coveting the eee pad transformer right now
<popey> and now iphone
<tugrik> yeah, I used an N900, great little portable linux PC... but figured I'd need to change to something else sooner or later...
<ali1234> n900 was never meant to be a phone anyway
<tugrik> s/used/use
<awilkins> Wonder if you can try this Android / N900 build in a non-permanent manner...
<ali1234> nope
<ali1234> it's not compatible with u-boot
<ali1234> because they use an ancient nokia kernel with too many bugs
<awilkins> ali1234, So it could probably be patched up then... shame I don't have time / madskillz
<ali1234> i sent a patch for the worst bug
<oimon> think yourselves lucky that nokia didn't release a meego tablet 1 month before the MS deal
<ali1234> it got applied about 3 days ago (i sent it about 3 months ago)
<oimon> all the geeks would have piled in
<ali1234> oimon: i think they will still release their "one meego device"
<ali1234> (which won't even be meego compliant lol)
<oimon> ali1234: but we are wise now...right?? RIGHT???
<ali1234> oimon: nobody learned from n800
<oimon> and nokia are dropping like a stone , and in bed with MS
<oimon> i wonder how much the ad-supported kindles will be
<directhex> ali1234, i don't know what's public about their "one meego device"
<ali1234> directhex: nothing
<ali1234> except that there's supposed to be one
<awilkins> I saw a Kindle in the flesh for the first time in Tesco (they are selling them now) and was sooo tempted. That screen is lovely.
<ali1234> and it will run "harmatten" and not true meego (so deb packages and stuff)
<brobostigon> good afternoon everyone
<gord> i have one, its very nice on the eyes :) modified it to run the ubuntu font, even nicer
<oimon> awilkins: luxury purchases though IMO considering the cost of e-books and the amount i actually read
<directhex> ali1234, ah, so H is public knowledge?
<ali1234> i never heard anything about any H
<directhex> <ali1234> and it will run "harmatten" and not true meego (so deb packages and stuff)
<ali1234> well, the codename has been known since before the n900 was even available
<oimon> harmageddon more like :P
<directhex> really? man, that's been baking for a while
<ali1234> they announced it when they announced the n900 and meego conf
<ali1234> "here's maemo 5, oh btw, we're now working on maemo 6, it will be all Qt based"
<awilkins> oimon, Yeah, I think the only way I'd get use out of it would be to load a chunk of Project Gutenberg onto it and make a real effort
<X3N> fun fact, the kindle runs a large portion of the GNOME stack
<BigRedS> really? What for?
<directhex> the shop.
<X3N> pango, cairo and gtk are used
<directhex> so it has webkit for that. and gstreamer for the mp3 player
<directhex> amazon are not community collaborators though
<X3N> well they maybe indirectly
<oimon> kindle wifi doesn't work on certain networks , big shame
<oimon> e.g. WPA enterprise /eduroam
<gord> works on my phones wifi hotspot, all that matters for me :)
<oimon> see this? http://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?t=51371
<oimon> while we are all talking about tracking users
<DJones> oimon: All we need now is for Bigfoot to get a mobile phone/kindle/tablet etc and we'd know exactly where to find him & his family
<oimon> DJones: it's been a while since i thought about him..since i was 6 in fact
<oimon> mysteries of the universe change a bit since then in my mind.
<oimon> like "why do people always walk through train carriages?" why not use the doors on the carriage you want.
<DJones> oimon: I caught a glimpse of a Simpsons episode last night where Homer had been mistaken for Bigfoot which was what brought it to mind
<gord> because the carriage you wanted turned out to be full of kids?
<oimon> and if ticket inspectors earn more than their salary in revenue protection, why not have more inspectors on trains?
<oimon> gord: in n london, walking up train carriages is very popular
<oimon> the same people seem to do it
<oimon> usually with their kids etc. maybe they are practising for when the inspector comes on.
<gord> grrr at websites that take you to a javascript thing if you open a link in a new tab.
<oimon> hmm i'm using 1.2gb of RAM (out of 4gb) and 2.3gb of Swap
<DJones> That sounds wierd
<DJones> why use swap when there's available free memory
<gord> because things got swapped in at some point when memory usage was higher, its lower now
<DJones> gord: So if something is transferred to swap, it gets left there until needed, rather than transferred as soon as memory is available, I hadn't realised that
<ali1234> this is the reason why you leave the computer over night or over lunch, when you come back and click on something, the HD grinds for 5 minutes before it works again
<BigRedS> yeah, no point expending effort transforming one pattern of bits needlessly to another pattern of bits
<ali1234> it's because some task, usually slocate-updatedb ran, used all physical memory, everything else got swapped out and then didn't get swapped back in
<ali1234> actually slocate-updatedb is kind of a worst possible case
<DJones> When you've been used to a machine with only 512Mb ram, you expect everything to be in swap anyway
<ali1234> it looks at every file exactly one, which means it fills up the filesystem cache and then never uses it
<ali1234> and if swappiness > 0 then program memory will get swapped out in favour of cache
<ali1234> so it basically makes *everything* get swapped out
<ali1234> and then it doesn't get swapped back in until you come to use the computer
<ali1234> another interesting quirk of the way swap work on linux... consider the firefox caches
<ali1234> it has a ram cache and a disk cache that it manages itself
<ali1234> but due to the way swappiness works
<ali1234> there is a good chance that firefox's ram cache will be swapped out in favour of caching in RAM firefox's disk cache
<ali1234> which means the ram cache could be slower to access than the disk cache
<ali1234> and this is why apps should not try to be cleverer than the OS
<oimon> i did a swapoff -a; swapon -a while buying lunch :D
<oimon> i really should run some tests though since i don't usually have > 60% RAM usage
<oimon> although firefox had crashed overnight so maybe it ate all the free space on my system
<popey> holy cow ATI 5970 is an expensive device
<gord> they are the super high end versions of the 5000 series, so yup
<hamitron> good afternoon all
<hamitron> :))
<popey> just saw someone talking about buying one (or more) for bitcoin mining
<gord> bitcoin mining?
<oimon> must be someting to do with minecraft
<oimon> has anyone made a dire straits minecraft parody vid yet?
<gord> no, bitcoin is a type of virtual currency or something
<popey> yes
<popey> that
 * hamitron doesn't trust bitcoin
<gord> its the mining thing i don't understand :)
<gord> ah, wikipedia says the network generates randomly coins, and if you contribute lots of cpu, your chances are higher
<AlanBell> not sure that is accurate
<dogmatic69> lol http://www.emohosting.com/
<gord> seems accurate, generating bitcoins takes trial and error seems brute forcing or something, thus the more cpu, the higher chance you have of finding them
<popey> some people have insanely huge mining rigs
<popey> with lots of GPUs
<gord> makes sense, but the whole thing is dependent on bitcoins actually being worth something at some point
<popey> well, technically they are worth something
<popey> because right now people are buying them
<popey> money (real money) is changing hands to get and sell bitcoins
<popey> so by defintion of 'if someone is willing to pay for it', it has value
<hamitron> the only reason I can see for a spike in the value, is if people just want to buy them for the hell of it... or some service accepts them as payment
<hamitron> otherwise it will just die?
<gord> i think people want to buy them as an investment, to resell later
<popey> its gone up .20c in the last two days
<ali1234> dogmatic69: refreshingly honest, it must be satire...
<popey> there will also be transaction fees in the future, and if you're mining then you could pick up some of that fee for processing the transaction
<dwatkins> Isn't the whole point that the value will decrease as more bitcoins are created, though?
<hamitron> it is kinda like selling/buying shares of a virtual company that has zero value :/
<dogmatic69> :)
<oimon> this is hurting my poor brain
 * oimon tucks into easter egg instead
<hamitron> easter eggs \o/
<popey> \o/ eggs
<gord> hrm, the client doesn't seem to work
<gord> oh, a compiz bug
<oimon> i'm not much of a visionary - i fail to see how bitcoins can take off
<ali1234> they can't. next!
<ali1234> that whole "if someone is willing to pay for it" thing worked out really well for subprime loans...
<oimon> At the peak of tulip mania, in February 1637, some single tulip bulbs  sold for more than 10 times the annual income of a skilled craftsman http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulip_mania
<gord> google are interested, that is how
<oimon> madness of crowds :D
<oimon> prices of yak face figure from star wars are still holding up well on ebay though
<oimon> i should sell him at some point
<directhex> so where can i change my Unity preferences? like always showing the "dock"?
<DJones> directhex: I think its in the compiz settings unity plugin
<czajkowski> gord: are you coming to the release party tomorrw
<ali1234> directhex: type "launcher" into the dash search
<ali1234> everything else you have to edit the registry (lol)
<popey> http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2011/04/27location_qa.html
<popey> "The iPhone is not logging your location. Rather, itâs maintaining a database of Wi-Fi hotspots and cell towers around your current location"
<ali1234> directhex: is "ghost" tooltips in banshee a known bug?
<bigcalm> War driving on a mass scale?
<popey> same as google :)
<oimon> popey: that sums apple up !
<oimon> i thought you were paraphrasing them, but alas no
 * czajkowski stabs Daviey 
<directhex> ali1234, i'm not aware of it
<Daviey> czajkowski, o/
<directhex> ali1234, which gconf key?
<oimon> it's not logging location ...but logging locations to calculate location when requested :S
<gord> czajkowski, too far for little me to go i'm afraid :)
<shauno> I think 'your' is the keywork for lawyers there.  it doesn't log 'your' location.  just everything else it can see
<oimon> what's kindle's excuse, since they aren't using GPS..
<davmor2> czajkowski: I won't be Sue has to goto the Hospital tomorrow :(
<oimon> shauno: true - if i leave my phone on my desk to go to lunch, it's only logging the phone's location, and not mine :)
<gord> directhex, all the unity preferences are in compiz, so ccsm - or if you have that installed already. about:config in the dash search
<czajkowski> gord: well no jammy dodgers for you so
<czajkowski> davmor2: :( poor sue you've driven her to going there
<ali1234> gord: what is "launcher & menus" then?
<awilkins> bitcoin mining is lots of bruteforce hashing
<awilkins> Runs much faster on a GPU
<gord> ali1234, it changes one option, no idea why
<awilkins> I think my GPU (nvidia 560) goes about 60 times faster than my CPU (Core 2 Quad)
<davmor2> czajkowski: Yeah I'm driving her there She ain't about to walk after an op on her foot is she you muppet :P
<awilkins> It makes Compiz suck rocks in terms of performance though
<awilkins> Also makes my graphics card dustbuster run loudly :-)
<gord> huh, theoretically a 560 could get the equivalent of 631ghz
<popey> i have asked this before...
<directhex> ok, unity makes a good case for using the scale plugin
<popey> what card should I get?
<directhex> popey, for doing what?
<popey> desktop, more than my 7900 but not 400 quid
<gord> if you want good ubuntu performance, nvidia. its what 99% of the unity team use
<popey> leaning towards ATI, because I, narked with nvidia
<popey> O_O
<ali1234> don't get a 240 if you want to run nouveau
<ali1234> don't get ati if you want it to work, ever
 * popey boggles at nvidia performance
<popey> hehe
<ali1234> nvidia is rubbish but it's still the best
<directhex> popey, geforce 570 is currently a good price/performance bet for gaming
<gord> i personally have a 260 gtx - its around Â£110-150 - happy enough with it, does games fine at highest settings, full resolution for my monitor. does unity very well apart from when the nvidia driver sucks
<ali1234> if you want good ubuntu performance, disable compositing
<popey> hmm
<davmor2> popey: You're never stunned into silence are you?
<popey> frequently
<directhex> the 260 is an aged equivalent to the 570, really
<gord> it is, but it doesn't matter, it plays all games at the highest quality just fine
<ali1234> someone should make a chart of nvidia cards in order of speed
<ali1234> because i'm just totally confused by it
<gord> lots of benchmark sites exist
<directhex> ali1234, easy.
<ali1234> but they always compare newest nvidia vs newest ati
<gord> they *love* charts
<directhex> ali1234, the most comprehensive info is on tom's hardware.
<davmor2> ali1234: that's cause they make it up as they go along ;)
<ali1234> i don't want comprehensive benchmarks
<directhex> http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/charts/graphics-cards,1.html
<directhex> ali1234, i said info.
 * hamitron would get a GTX 460 now
<directhex> ali1234, top-to-bottom charts comparing 30-40 cards at a time. easy comparison,.
<ali1234> no, they don;t have the chart i want
<ali1234> they compare all cards from one year?
<davmor2> popey: Intel all the way dude, just to be different :D
<popey> lies
<directhex> ali1234, yes. what chart do you want?
<ali1234> i want a chart of every nvidia card ever made in order of slowest to fastest
<directhex> davmor2, i hear the next-gen intel cards might handle *two* dozen polygons!
<directhex> ali1234, you can't make that comparison. they don't all fit in the same PC, and changing anything other than the graphics card would pollute the test.
<davmor2> directhex: at once! NO that's never possible ;)
<ali1234> ok then
<ali1234> i want a chart of all pci-e nvidia cards
 * popey is so hardware dumb
<ali1234> not just the ones made in 2010
<andylockran> hey dudes
<hamitron> 1 or 2? ;)
<andylockran> and dudettes
<popey> i dont even know what slot my 7900 plugs into :)
<andylockran> how's tricks
<popey> howdy howdy howdy
<directhex> popey, PCIe.
<popey> ok
<andylockran> my 7900 is PCIe
<hamitron> there are some AGP ones directhex
<directhex> iirc it's the 6000 series where they started phasing out AGP
<popey> quiet would be nice
<popey> are any decent cards quiet?
<directhex> hamitron, a couple. rare & expensive compared to PCIe versions though
<popey> and will i need a new psu?
<directhex> popey, how big's your PSU?
<popey> and and and
<popey> this big
<popey> <-                  ->
<popey> etc
<popey> no idea
<hamitron> yeh, but we all know popey spends money.... he is a Mac user ;)
<andylockran> yeah, so many questions
<gord> might need a new psu, quiet, erm... i don't know many that are built to be quiet
<popey> o_O
<gord> well, i have seen ones that are advertised as being quiet, but they aren't
<andylockran> there's a fanless one my boss just got.. hence quiet
<andylockran> can let you know the model.. uses it only for general purpose computing and coding - no games mind.
<directhex> popey, card noise varies by temperature. temperature varies by airflow. airflow varies by case
<directhex> popey, as a rule of thumb, the bigger the cooler, the quieter
<popey> yeah, dont want to change my case
<popey> might look at better/quieter fans perhaps
<davmor2> popey: To quote everyone else Nvidia is the place to be baby!   Still the best gfx performance unfortunately.  Ati is getting there slowly that is the issue though slowly but it is improving
<directhex> i use fglrx
<hamitron> this would be my gfx of choice today http://www.ebuyer.com/product/247309
<gord> nvidia cards you can set the fan speed on, i would assume you can with others. so if its too loud just underclock the gpu and slow the fan down
<hamitron> ask me tomorrow and I may have changed my mind ;/
<popey> http://www.ebuyer.com/product/249399 golly
<directhex> hamitron, rather than a 550ti?
<hamitron> GTX 460 has more cuda cores
<hamitron> iirc
<bigcalm> 1.28 GB?
<bigcalm> Odd amount
<seeker> P-p-p-Popey case p-p-Popey case
<directhex> actually, yes, the 460 is better than the 550
<hamitron> 550ti is nice too, but nearer a GTS 450
<hamitron> my GTS 450 is find tbh
<popey> that 460 looks nice
<directhex> ali1234, the other thing is you can't run modern benchmarks on old cards - and old benchmarks are 101% irrelevant on new cards
<hamitron> fine*
<gord> popey, you could do a lot worse than that 460 for sure
<gord> make sure your psu is okay with it :)
<popey> relative difference between my 7900 and that?
<ali1234> directhex: sounds suspiciously like blaming poor perforance on "you're running the wrong software"
<popey> will I even notice it?
<seeker> What will the card be used for?
<popey> desktop and some gaming
<gord> about 10x better
<TheOpenSourcerer> Individual sized Battenburg Cake!
<seeker> Linux?
<popey> yes
<popey> and windows
<hamitron> popey: my GTS 450 vs my Geforce 7800gtx ........... 65 fps vs 11 fps in F1 2010 benchmark
<popey> nice
<directhex> ali1234, erm... that makes no sense at all
<gord> minecraft runs at 120fps fullscreen on my rig here
<popey> how do i tell what psu that needs?
<popey> or what connector thing
<popey> I think my psu is man enough, just dunno if connectors have changed
<hamitron> it needs a lot of psu :/
<popey> my 7900 has a square connector iirc
<ali1234> directhex: i want the chart to use a benchmark that reflects the software i actually run. if it runs badly on a particular card that is no excuse
<hamitron> 2 x 6 pin iirc
<seeker> On windows I'd go for ati
<seeker> Unless you are thinking of spending Â£700
<popey> bah, new psu needed?
<ali1234> directhex: i don't care about buying a card that is 100% optimized to run benchmarks only
<popey> :(
<hamitron> as in, 2 of the pin pin connectors
<directhex> ali1234, modern hardware isn't designed to throw a small number of un-lit basic textured polygons at the screen. you think a modern i7 rig would get millions of frames per second on quake 2?
<hamitron> 2 of the six pin connectors
<hamitron> ffs
<ali1234> directhex: what does that have to do with it?
<gord> popey, in the specs it recommends a 450W psu
<popey> it says it comes with accessoy
 * hamitron smacks his own fingers for mis-typing
<popey> accessory*
<ali1234> all i care about is which card will be fastest for the software i use
<ali1234> i do not care about how many millions of triangles it does in CoD4
<directhex> ali1234, everything. pick a benchmark which adequately shows how well a Riva TNT compares to a GTX 590
<popey> will that attach to a 4 pin molex?
<popey> Riva :)
<popey> Retro
<ubuntuuk-planet> [iain woz ere] tumbling away - http://orangesquash.org.uk/~laney//blog/posts/2011/04/ikiwiki/ikiwiki/
<ali1234> directhex: ok. i choose the benchmark "rendering launchpad in firefox"
<directhex> popey, i'm not the one asking for a comparison of every nvidia card ever!
<hamitron> GTX 460 is gonna need 4 x 4pin molex :/
<popey> blimey
<popey> well, my box only has one hard disk
<seeker> popey: It'll technically need 2 moles
<seeker> *moles
<seeker> Ffs
<seeker> Molex = 60w
<seeker> Pci 6 pin = 75w
<ali1234> also, i didn't know they made a pci-e riva tnt
<directhex> know what? i really can't be bothered today.
<popey> :(
<seeker> Pci 8 pin = 150w
<seeker> And it will likely only come with 1 adaptor
<hamitron> the GTS 450 and 550ti will use less power
<hamitron> it is partly why i went for a GTS 450
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> also because I am cheap \o/
<ali1234> actually what really puzzle me about that firefox bug is it *never* happens if you save the html of the page and then load it up
<gord> i would like a new gpu, would be nice to get a 3d monitor and do some 3d gamging
<hamitron> Â£82 for a GTS 450 if you can stomach Inno3D :/
<gord> maybe patch compiz for 3d monitors
<ali1234> to me that suggests the javascript is really hammering the dom or something
<dwatkins> ouch
 * dwatkins is called Dom
<seeker> hamitron: All of the card manufacturers use the same
<seeker> Card
<hamitron> seeker: fans are different
<seeker> Just with custom stickers on the cooler
<seeker> In most cases they Use the reference cooler
<hamitron> some are also cheap, and miss connectors off the rear
<hamitron> do some still use different memories?
<seeker> Like I said,
<seeker> Most of them just put a different sticker on the reference cooler
<seeker> The rest is the same
<daubers> Most important question: Will it play Minecraft?
<andylockran> sd:)
<hamitron> daubers: who knows with the next patch ;) will anything?
<hamitron> seeker: it is no good saying most are the same, not doing research, then getting a card with a connector you want missing
<hamitron> I nearly bought a GTS450 and it only had 1 DVI and 1 VGA port on the back :/
<popey> exactly daubers !
<seeker> Yea, you have to actually *look* at what you are
<seeker> Buying
<seeker> Shocking!
<seeker> But, if you are faced with a choice between some cards with exactly the same
<hamitron> yeh, just annoying they don't always make it clear :/
<seeker> Specs, they are likely using reference designs, so choose the cheapest
<hamitron> certainly
<hamitron> yes
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> mine comes with the clocks overclocked as standard too
<hamitron> just cuz I am lazy
<hamitron> ;/
<seeker> But, of course, reading is important
<seeker> hamitron: You paid extra for what you can do with a free app in 2 mins?
<hamitron> it cost 20p more
<hamitron> and no hassle with voiding a warrenty
<hamitron> and I got a nice OC sticker
<hamitron> ;)
<popey> seeker: i find interal computer bits confusing so glaze over
<popey> i dont want to sit and read specs all day
<gordonjcp> overclocking is silly
<popey> hence asking "what card should I buy"
<seeker> popey: What sort of gaming?
<hamitron> some manufacturers provide you with a "better" chip if you get one ready overclocked too
<gord> whats so silly about overclocking?
<popey> seeker: some fps, bit of minecraft
<hamitron> gord: reduces life? :/
<gord> eh, not really
<hamitron> extra heat
<seeker> popey: Crysis 2? Half life 1?
<gord> have good cooling :)
<hamitron> can be unstable
<hamitron> gord: waste of energy! think green!
<gord> dont overclock so much that its unstable
<gord> i think MEAN!
<hamitron> you abuser
<hamitron> ;/
<ali1234> if you are only going to play games that run in linux (maybe in wine) then there is no point getting an expensive card
<seeker> I7 920 @ 4 Ghz \o:
<seeker> \o/
<gord> i overclock my cpu by about 0.5 ghz. thats 2ghz extra. really helps
<hamitron> i3 550 @ 3.2ghz \o/
<hamitron> standard clock ;)
<hamitron> oem cooler
<gord> i water cool my i7. keeps it at 30 degrees :)
<hamitron> popey: this is cheap http://www.ebuyer.com/product/257221
<seeker> Noctua nh-14 :D
<hamitron> but only 1 dvi port
<seeker> popey: If you are going to be spending a lot of time in windows and aren't planning on cutting edge, it may be worth looking at an ati 57** or 6***
<popey> i am not
<popey> (spending a lot of time in windows)
<ali1234> wait, what card do you have now again?
<popey> 7900
<hamitron> I'd have thought that is powerful enough?
<ali1234> and what programs are you running that don't run fast enough and you want them to be faster?
<popey> 01:00.0 VGA compatible controller: nVidia Corporation G71 [GeForce 7900 GT/GTO] (rev a1)
<ali1234> frankly i doubt you'll see much difference even if you bought the most expensive nvidia there is
<hamitron> the 7 series doesn't do cuda
<hamitron> that was one things that annoyed me
<hamitron> thing*
<popey> i certainly notice the difference beteen the various nvidia cards in my house
<popey> the one in the imac, and the one in the mbp as well as the one in the desktop
 * bigcalm spies something on twitter and heads to iTunes
<hamitron> popey: what game you struggling with?
<popey> I'm not struggling with any game
<hamitron> or app
<popey> some games do feel a bit sluggish
<gord> the 460 will be really good, its a good card
<hamitron> and the 450 if you are cheap
<hamitron> ;)
<popey> added to wishlist
<hamitron> or 550ti inbetween
<hamitron> but I would go for the 460
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> it does use a lot more power than the 450 though
<gord> grr customer services lady forwarded me to technical support
<hamitron> :/
<gord> i just need to  unblock my card :( i set off fraud protection all the time
<hamitron> gord: just as you thought you'd managed to chat her up? ;)
<hamitron> :\
 * awilkins likes his new 560Ti
<awilkins> Seems to run Crysis 2 happily enough at "ludicrously detailed" at 1680x1050
<awilkins> Not tried the original Crysis on it yet
<awilkins> The GTS8800 was getting a bit long in the tooth
<popey> i actually have two 7900's
<popey> theory being to run them in parallel
<popey> never have though
<hamitron> imo, you want cuda
<awilkins> I don't think it's worth it on modern cards unless you have a stooopid large monitor or need lots of numbercrunch
<hamitron> I think my upgrade helped with flash, and new games 9in windows)
<Azelphur> unless you have a stooopid large monitor <-- that's me :D
<awilkins> I wonder if Amazon / other clouds have GPU rigs you can rent
<hamitron> (in windows)
 * awilkins has 2x 1680x1050
 * Azelphur has 4x1920x1200 :p
<seeker> hamitron: Why does he need cuda?
 * hamitron has 1024x768 baby ;)
<popey> I have 2x1680x1050
<hamitron> seeker: you maybe doesn't
<hamitron> he*
<popey> tempted to reduce down to one big screen
<popey> and offload one of those to mumbuntu
<hamitron> but new flash uses it doesn't it?
<Laney> yay for planet spam
<awilkins> Aha, amazon DO have GPU rigs
<popey> :)
<popey> the only thing left to upgrade in my desktop is the CPU
<popey> (I dont want to upgrade the mobo
<popey> )
<awilkins> At work I have  1440x900 + 1280x1024  :   2x 1280x0124
<popey> Q6600 is the fastest it will take AIUI
<awilkins> To get a CPU upgrade I'd need a new slot (no point upgrading the clock speed, it's all bus and L2 cache these days, baby
<hamitron> popey: what cpu you got?
<dwatkins> I used to have a quad 6600
<popey> P5N32-E SLI ACPI BIOS Revision 1801
<seeker> popey: I've got one of Thise
<dwatkins> I gave it away because I was moving house and had a laptop
<seeker> *those in my mythtv box
<awilkins> popey, snapsies
<popey> model name      : Intel(R) Core(TM)2 CPU          6700  @ 2.66GHz
<awilkins> Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Quad  CPU   Q9550  @ 2.83GHz
 * hamitron keeps quiet, for fear of the lols
<Azelphur> Intel(R) Core(TM) i7 CPU 950  @ 3.07GHz
<Azelphur> :p
<hamitron> "some people have small winkies"
<hamitron> ;/
<gord> ... i hate you popey. why am i even shopping for a new gpu? i don't need one.
<hamitron> haha gord
<hamitron> it got me shopping too :/
<Azelphur> lol
 * awilkins is content with the size of his
 * awilkins GPU
<davmor2> gord: it's cause you're a mindless sheep following the flock ;)
<hamitron> :))
<Azelphur> 03:00.0 VGA compatible controller: nVidia Corporation GF110 [Geforce GTX 570] (rev a1) || 06:00.0 VGA compatible controller: nVidia Corporation G92 [GeForce 8800 GT] (rev a2)
 * Azelphur runs
<seeker> Someone has more money than sense :P
<davmor2> gord: that or you heard new and shiny and got jealous :D
<awilkins> Blimey, the only line in my `lspci` that doesn't have "nVidia" in it is the Firewire controller
<gord> oooh new and shiny!
<hamitron> Azelphur is the reason seti@home will run out of units soon
<hamitron> ;/
<Azelphur> haha
<gord> seti announced they are kinda... shutting down, lack of funds
<Azelphur> I actually do use my hw though, I'm using like 50% of that i7 right now and I'm not even doing anything in particular
<hamitron> Azelphur: on what?
<MattJ> They should use everyone's PCs to generate bitcoins instead
<MattJ> Then they'd be rich
<gord> virtually rich
<MattJ> Yes, quite
<Azelphur> hamitron: burnout paradise all max at 1920x1200 via wine, pidgin with every channel as a separate window (so like 70 windows) and a bunch of other stuff :p
<hamitron> is burnout any good?
<Azelphur> quite fun :)
<hamitron> I keep looking and nearly buying it
<awilkins> It could be the only currency you could bribe ET to phone us with
<Azelphur> hamitron: I'd fully expect my PC to be able to fire up TF2 while I'm running burnout paradise so I don't have to close/exit my game in order to go in game and check something on my TF2 servers
<Azelphur> It's not unusual for me to have 3 games running at the same time all via wine :P
<hamitron> Azelphur: but why?
<hamitron> you need an ultra expensive comp because you are too lazy to close a few windows?
<hamitron> ;/
<Azelphur> hamitron: for example, minecraft standing in my mob farm, world of warcraft waiting for the dungeon queue, burnout paradise to entertain me while I wait :p
<awilkins> I'm pretty peed off with Crysis 2 because of the stupid login issues
<awilkins> Haven't played it online yet
<gord> EA?
<awilkins> gord, yup, EA
<hamitron> brb, 3pm = cup of tea and cakes
<Azelphur> hamitron: also when someone needs an admin on my game servers, sometimes I have to stop what I'm doing and fire up another game, I don't want to have to go through the hassle of stopping my current game and exiting just to go check something in TF2 for example
<Azelphur> so yea, my spec needs to be very overkill :p
<awilkins> TBH I think it's Crytek GMBH's fault though
<gord> i have sooo many problems with ea servers
<awilkins> Oh holy monkey, logging in with my OOOOld Gamespy credentials just worked on their forums
<awilkins> Maybe that will work for the game now....
<davmor2> popey: I so wanted mark to say eggs'n'bacon
<popey> :)
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Ubuntu UK Podcast] S04E05  The Nomad - http://podcast.ubuntu-uk.org/2011/04/27/s04e05-the-nomad/
<s-fox> How does one get on the ubuntu uk planet?
<popey> s-fox: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/ubuntu-uk.org/planet
<s-fox> Thanks popey :)
<s-fox> Where does the face need to be stored?
<s-fox> Oh never mind :D . I can see how some have done it using url
<davmor2> popey: your description of a casual windows user.....Were you thinking Jono?
<bigcalm> Clapton Common Music!
 * oimon just realised that new uupc is out \o/
<oimon> i haven't switched on my home desktop PC for yonks.
<Azelphur> lol all this crazyness over apple/android "tracking" is funny :P
 * oimon wonders if laptops will be mostly ARM tablet/laptop hybrids soon
<Azelphur> I dunno about iphone, but all android does is send anonimized data to improve wifi geolocation, and it asks you upon first install if you are ok with the phone doing it
<Azelphur> and the cache it keeps on the device is constantly trimmed
<oimon> Azelphur: trimmed to 1yr for iphones
<Azelphur> I know it's different with iphone but everyone seems to be lumping android in with the iphone evilness that admittedly use it for marketing purposes xD
<Azelphur> yea, the iphone one is terrible
<BigRedS> to several people the android one is terrible, too
<oimon> i didn't opt in to the location tracking when i got my phone
<oimon> therefore i should not be tracked anyway
<oimon> although i'm tempted to root my phone to find out
<Azelphur> BigRedS: how is it terrible if the phone asks you in no uncertain terms before doing it :S
<oimon> tmobile track me anyway
<oimon> so do oyster
<oimon> and my wife does too
<Azelphur> lol
<BigRedS> Azelphur: I don't remember being asked, but *I* don't find it a bad thing
<Azelphur> BigRedS: when you first install and go through the setup wizard for your google account and such, it presents you with a tickbox saying something along the lines of share my location with google
<BigRedS> ah, perhaps
<BigRedS> I wasn't paying much attention
<BigRedS> I use latitude anyway, there's no getting out of Google knowing my whereabouts :)
<Azelphur> haha :P
<popey> ditto
<Azelphur> everyones going crazy about it and it's an opt in service xD
<Azelphur> I think I'mma take a screenshot of the button :p
<oimon> i could save them the effort of tracking. i go to work, then go home, then go to work, then go home...or do I? since i turn my mobile off at night.
<oimon> ...then I put it in a faraday cage and bury it in the garden until 8am the next day
<Azelphur> lol
<Azelphur> oimon: that's the thing there is no "tracking" XD
 * hamitron trusts nothing and no-one
<hamitron> ;/
<Azelphur> oimon: Android uses WIFI hotspots to try and locate you if you don't have a GPS chip, it does this by street view cars driving around and detecting those hotspots and keeps it up to date with android phones
<hamitron> so no hotspots = no tracking?
<hamitron> :))
<Azelphur> hamitron: yes, it only stores/pushes the location of hotspots so google can improve the location db
<oimon> does it not log the mobile antenna stations too?
<Azelphur> and it does so anonymously
<Azelphur> oimon: no.
<hamitron> can rogue apps access the location information?
<Azelphur> not unless you give them root access, and even then they only have access to a small cache
<oimon> how can i find out if my wifi hotspot is in the db?
<Azelphur> oimon: dunno
<oimon> i saw a link yesterday about it but i was busy, now i lost it
<Azelphur> oimon: it probably is, as I say the main data gathering was done by street view cars
<oimon> i thought they deleted that data
<oimon> or was that the packet sniifing they did
<Azelphur> I'm not sure on the specifics of that I think what they did was just capture everything with the goal of only getting ssid+location
<hamitron> I should maybe turn on wifi for some google loving :/
<oimon> http://samy.pl/androidmap/
<dogmatic69> anyone know how to recursivly delete '.svn' folders?
<bigcalm> Yes
<bigcalm> find ./ -name ".svn" | xargs rm -Rf
<dogmatic69> tx
<bigcalm> Welcome
<davmor2> popey: å
<Azelphur> just checked with my phone, it does definitely ask you about location stuff clear as day :p
<Azelphur> I'm trying to hack up my android emulator to have gapps so I can screenshot it
<AlanBell> release party: http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/team/889/detail/ for those not yet registered
<andylockran> brilliant
<andylockran> I might be able to pop into this
<oimon> wow, release day tomorrow! natty doesn't feel ready yet
<BigRedS> there's a lot less excitement about this one than there has been any previous release, as far as I can remember
<BigRedS> I'd have completely forgotten about it had I not been using it as an excuse for pub tomorrow
<oimon> i wouldn't feel confident recommending it to noobs like i did for lucid and maverick
<oimon> (excluding mverick UNE of course)
<dogmatic69> in a crontab, what is 0 5 * * 1
<dogmatic69> 5am every day?
<popey> no
<dogmatic69> :/
<dogmatic69> 0 5 * * *
<popey> 5 am on the first of the month isnt it
<popey> yes
<BigRedS> yeah
<dogmatic69> cool, thanks
<bigcalm> How might I subtract 10% in PHP in simplist possible way?
<oimon> no..
<oimon> 0 5 * * 1 is 5am every monday
<andylockran> bigcalm x = x * 0.9 ?
<bigcalm> Aha, ta andylockran :)
<hamitron> it wasn't a trick question?
<hamitron> :)
<oimon> format of cron: # m h  dom mon dow   command
<popey> ah
<BigRedS> Haha, I read that as every day in January...
<oimon> i add that line to all my crontabs
<dogmatic69> oimon: what is dom, mon, dow
<dogmatic69> day of month
<dwatkins> month
<BigRedS> month
<oimon> yep
<dogmatic69> day of week?
<dwatkins> day of week
<shauno> ding!
<oimon> day of month / month / day of week
<dogmatic69> mon just month?
<dogmatic69> ah
<oimon> yip
<oimon> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cron
<dogmatic69> cool, think i got it now
<dwatkins> I thought all version of cron had that explaining line now
<dwatkins> in the user's crontab
<dogmatic69> i want to run ./command <param> in the cron, so is this right...
<dogmatic69> uname -n | ./home/ubuntu/backup -
<oimon> man -s5 crontab has it, but not man -s1 crontab
<popey> or put it in a script
<dogmatic69> popey: good point...
<dogmatic69> ill just edit my backup script :D
<bigcalm> It's best to keep logic out of crontab. Even if the shell script is 1 line long :)
<dogmatic69> ye
<shauno> I have so much fun with envs in cron, that I like to keep everything out of it :/
<dogmatic69> and the backup needs sudo, so i just do sudo su && contab -e
<dogmatic69> *cron
<oimon> oooh:     Months or days of the week can be specified by name.
<bigcalm> dogmatic69: you can put your crontab commands into a file and then install it with "crontab my_cron_file.txt"
<BigRedS> that strikes me as cheating
<bigcalm> Save messing about with crontab -e
<dogmatic69> seems the same to me?
<dogmatic69> both are nano
<oimon> nano ugh
<dogmatic69> :D
<bigcalm> Sure. Just you can put a text file into a repo :)
<dogmatic69> vim is to hard core :P
<dogmatic69> bigcalm: i see
<oimon> i hate it when it does that nano thing when you are expecting vi(m)
<BigRedS> haha, yeah
<dogmatic69> will look at that.
<BigRedS> spend about five minutes working out how to save and exit...
<oimon> ZZ^X^Q^C^W
<dogmatic69> ctrl + o, ctrl + x
<bigcalm> One of my servers has jed as the defult editor for svn and cron. That one trips me up every time
<dogmatic69> i cant figure out how to do anything in vim
<bigcalm> esc:wq!
<oimon> vim is good for you
<oimon> ZZ is all
<oimon> you need a mug with vim commands
<oimon> i should buy those for all new staff
<bigcalm> I wonder if Absolute80s.com will play some Weird Al
<davmor2> bigcalm: ask them
<andylockran> yeah
<bigcalm> Currently playing MJ's Beat It
<bigcalm> Every time I hear it, I expect Weird Al's Eat it
<davmor2> bigcalm: I'd be listening but apparently my internet woes won't end till June 8th
<dogmatic69> if i have a backup script that is the same across 10 servers, what is the best way to store / run it?
<dogmatic69> i was thinking store and run it from a backup server some how
<shauno> curl url | sh  :)
<dogmatic69> ?
<dogmatic69> dl it from some place and run it
<shauno> yeah.  if you want to keep it centralised, rather than have 10 local copies, you can just pipe it from http on-demand
<dogmatic69> nice
<dogmatic69> and that is secure?
<shauno> only as secure as http is :)
<dogmatic69> nobody gonna intercept it and stick a sudo rm -rf /*
<shauno> eg, if you have ssl in place, curl will die on a bad cert
<Oli``> wget -qO- url | sh
<Oli``> ^ if you don't want to install curl
<shauno> but if that's a real consideration (eg, it's a public network, etc), it's probably not the best way to do it.  but it is an option
<dogmatic69> ha. could stick it in a gist, then its ssh and under sc
<shauno> I'm sure scp could do the same (scp remote:/path/ - | sh)
<dogmatic69> ye, the nodes dont have access to anything
<dogmatic69> you can only access them
<shauno> oh, - doesn't work for scp :(
<shauno> should be push tho.  ssh host </path/to/script
<shauno> so the nodes only need to accept inbound, rather than connecting back
<dogmatic69> ye
<dogmatic69> what would that do?
<BigRedS>  I have an SVN repo. anyone know of a way of checking I have permissions to commit, without actually committing anything?
<dogmatic69> shauno: would that be run on the main server with the code on and it will be executed on the node
<dogmatic69> BigRedS: try push with no changes
<BigRedS> dogmatic69: ah, so just checkout then push?
<dogmatic69> might check permissions before checking the changes
<shauno> dogmatic69: the last one would, yeah.  ssh remotenote <script
<dogmatic69> shauno: ill try that out quick
<shauno> it's push vs pull, but requires nothing but key-based ssh on the nodes
<popey> http://oggcamp11.eventbrite.com/
<popey> ahem
<BigRedS> I thought you'd run out of spaces already?
<BigRedS> aha!
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Ubuntu California Natty Release Party - http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/04/27/ubuntu-california-natty-release-party/
<dogmatic69> shauno: kinda got it working, there is a few issues though
<dogmatic69> script does not run properly, and it needs a pw now for the ssh
<dogmatic69> thanks for the help, will fight it some more tomorrow
<shauno> they're just thoughts.  there's 1001 ways to skin that one :)
<Karti> Hi all, quick question - If I have the 11.04 daily build from 7 days ago. If I just update can I just assume that it will the latest version once its released tomorrow?
<BigRedS> Karti: I think you need to do a do-release-upgrade
<BigRedS> 'cause you're going from RC to release
<Karti> BigRedS, I have done the upgrades before and they were time consuming. Do you think it would be just as easy reinstalling? (not an issue)
<BigRedS> no, it's always easier than reinstalling
<BigRedS> 'cause you just tell it to go and it goes and does it
<BigRedS> it's time consuming for the computer, but shouldn't take any more time for you than to kick it off
<BigRedS> and perhaps say yes or no to a config file overwriting
<Karti> BigRedS, Ok, the classic go and have a cup of tea in the meantime :)
<BigRedS> yeah :)
<BigRedS> or minimise it and carry on working, but don't suggest that to management
<BigRedS> :)
<BigRedS> (actually, can you minimise in unity?)
<Karti> lol... if only they would let me. - Thanks
<davmor2> BigRedS: Yes you can.
<BigRedS> ah, cool. I remember someone complaining about something to do with window minimising in unity
<Psychobudgie> it was probably to do with reopening a minimised window
<Psychobudgie> if you have more than one window open of an individual application you have to open all of them to select 1
<Psychobudgie> which is annoying
<Psychobudgie> almost as annoying as unity
<Psychobudgie> ;)
<BigRedS> haha
<Karti> I must admit that I actually like it. My biggest loss would have been wobily windows <How shallow am I :)>
<BigRedS> Hah. I've only just got into compiz
<Psychobudgie> gnome 3 is way better
<BigRedS> yeah, I keep being told to try gnome 3
<Psychobudgie> using it here from the ppa
<BigRedS> yeah, I don't like the apparent irreversibility of its install
<BigRedS> when I get home I think I'll inflict it upon my desktop
<Psychobudgie> unfortunately that is down to unity
<BigRedS> right now, all I have is my laptop and I sort of need it to work
<BigRedS> Psychobudgie: ah, the latest ubuntu I'm running on any real hardware is 10.10
<Psychobudgie> I switched to gnome 3 a couple of weeks ago and haven't looked back to be honest
<Psychobudgie> tried unity again within a vm a couple of days ago and it just feels amateurish to be honest
<BigRedS> it reminds me of gnome back in the day
<BigRedS> when that was chock full of niggles
<Psychobudgie> saying that though, it runs on my daughters netbook and works pretty well but that's a netbook and not a desktop where it just feels wrong imo
<BigRedS> my first and, as yet only, go on Gnome3 was similar, though
<shauno> got some pretty bizarre questions in a job interview today :/
<BigRedS> I wondered why i twas on such a large screen
<BigRedS> shauno: where were you interviewing?
<shauno> current employer, different role
<shauno> trying to get them to put the word 'senior' infront of my title so I can haz moar monies
<Psychobudgie> sounds like my old developer job in the nhs
<shauno> odd, odd Qs tho.  the worst was being asked the average voltage at a substation.  at which point I decided the german chap just didn't like me
<Psychobudgie> created a role specifically for me by adding senior to the front of it on a higher salary band then interviewed me for the role they specifically made for me
<Psychobudgie> couldn't make it up
<Psychobudgie> or so I thought
<Karti> No guess.....given away to someone else?
<BigRedS> shauno: what did you answer?
<shauno> I guess about 15k
<shauno> pretty sure I got the 'k' bit right :)
<shauno> 15 was a guess, and I told them that :/
<BigRedS> I wondered if they were after the average of the in and the out...
<BigRedS> not sure why I'm putting more thought into your interview questions than my work, though :)
<shauno> 3:)
<shauno> I'm really tempted to email the interviewer and ask if he asks everyone that, but not sure if that's kosher
<shauno> just that one Q is playing on my mind as a why on earth
<gordonjcp> shauno: seems a strange question
<gordonjcp> depends on the substation, surely
<kaushal> Hi
<BigRedS> maybe it's another of those 'clever' "what would he do when presented with X" sorts of questions?
<kaushal> what would be the IST time once 11.04 is released ?
<BigRedS> IST time?
<BigRedS> ahhh
<BigRedS> India timezone
<kaushal> yes
<BigRedS> no idea, it's not a prearranged hour
<kaushal> oh i see
<BigRedS> subscribe to ubuntu-announce, and they'll email you when it's out
<kaushal> great
<BigRedS> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-announce
<BigRedS> usually it's prior to pub-time GMT :)
<MartijnVdS> hey, cool. iplayer live radio works outside the UK :)
<shauno> for most things, yeah :)  five can be a bit grumpy about some things tho
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Matthew Garrett] On platforms - http://mjg59.livejournal.com/135944.html
<Azelphur> Yay, I stumbled upon some sanity re the zomg smartphones are stalking me thing, http://www.maximumpc.com/files/u127998/chartughhhh.jpg
<Azelphur> good chart is good :p
<BigRedS> Azelphur: haha
<BigRedS> handy, though
<Azelphur> indeed
<Mez> Aw man - completely ballsed that up ..
<Mez> Couldnt remember how many octets in a mac address... couldnt remember what kill does by default ... explained setuid rather than sticky..
<Mez> and said syn ack synack
<DJones> Natty must be nearly fully baked, only 30Mb of updates in the last 48 hours
<gordonjcp> I should boot into Ubuntu and pull the updates
<DJones> gordonjcp: That was my thought, download updates now before the servers go ballistic tomorrow
<zleap> so what sort of time should i try and download tomorrow ?
<Azelphur> Anyone know how I add the C/C++ editor to eclipse?
<gordonjcp> DJones: excellent point
<Azelphur> It doesn't seem to be in my list of editors :(
<BigRedS> zleap: friday :)
<zleap> ok
<DJones> zleap: Could be anytime tomorrow when its officially released, as soon as it is, the servers will be battered.  I'd suggest waiting till Friday as well
<zleap> ok
<zleap> sounds a good plan, i can spend tomorrow printing cd labels
<DJones> Or update now anticipating minimal changes between now & final release :)
<zleap> i am sticking with 10.04 for now, but will download so I have a usb stick and a few cd's they come in useful
<zleap> my update netbook with it though
<zleap> my = may
<TheOpenSourcerer> I have a nightly cron job that zsyncs to the daily isos.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Although I am not planning to be upgrading to Natty anytime soon.
<ubuntuuk-planet> [iain woz ere] Too Many Cephalopods - http://orangesquash.org.uk/~laney/blog/posts/2010/09/too-many-cephalopods/
<ubuntuuk-planet> [iain woz ere] Break - http://orangesquash.org.uk/~laney/blog/posts/2010/12/break/
<ubuntuuk-planet> [iain woz ere] tumbling away - http://orangesquash.org.uk/~laney/blog/posts/2011/04/ikiwiki/
<AlanBell> I wonder if Natty will run on an old Dell desktop circa 2002
<DJones> It wouldn't run on an old dell laptop circa 2001
<DJones> But that was limited by memory & graphics memory
<AlanBell> I don't think the intel graphics will do 3d any more (It did do compiz in hardy)
<AlanBell> probably will perform better than popey's nvidia
<DJones> This one would do compiz up to Karmic, but with only 32mb of graphics memory, you could hear it whirring trying to update the screen (Geforce 2go)
<Laney> ffs
<Laney> spamming planet twice in one day?!
<mgdm> careless
<Laney> rather
<Laney> apologies all
<duvelhedz> will the new ubuntu not default to gnome2 instead of unity if you are trying to install on a relic
<AlanBell> yes
<duvelhedz> should have no worries on an x41 so
<duvelhedz> should be down to the party tomorrow Alan, dragging down a mate from work
<AlanBell> great
<duvelhedz> I'm not a huge fan of unity though, I think its going to annoy a few heads alright, especially power users
 * bigcalm sighs
<bigcalm> My fiancee's side of the family are no to AV while my side of the family are yes to AV. Also, her side are looking forward to the royal wedding while my side couldn't give a flying flip
<Azelphur> bigcalm: haha
<bigcalm> Thankfully we are spenind Friday and the weekend with my parents
<Azelphur> bigcalm: I'm a good medium on the royal wedding, while I couldn't give a flying flip, my street is having a street party, food \o/
<Azelphur> and I do give a flying flip about party food, party food is awesome
<bigcalm> :D
<Azelphur> plus the lady across the road who's a professional cook is gonna be doing some stuff :D
<duvelhedz> bigcalm, i would be in the no camp as Ireland is a perfect example of how bad it can be
<Azelphur> and I bet the nice old lady who always makes me cake will make more cake, cake is good.
<Azelphur> xD
<Azelphur> bigcalm: also I think a large amount of the no to AV is down to misunderstanding
<Azelphur> it's kinda complicated to understand, and it doesn't help when you get leaflets through the door full of lies...I mean statistics :p
<AlanBell> this thing has lucid on it at the moment, think the CD drive is busted though
<AlanBell> lets see if it will do a USB boot
<duvelhedz> AV is what we have in ireland, it works on 1st, 2nd preferences and so on, I do think it makes it harder to boot out bad polititians
<Azelphur> duvelhedz: I would have thought the opposite, doesn't it stop strategic voting which makes it easier to boot out bad politians?
<duvelhedz> You would think so, i think its just that most people dont think much beyone the 1st preference so there is a good chance that incumbants scrape their way in, the benefit i see of it though is that right wing fascists will find it harder
<duvelhedz> hi airurando
<airurando> hey duvelhedz
<duvelhedz> are you having a release party in Dublin?
<airurando> yes indeed
<duvelhedz> good stuff, I'm going to be at the one here in London so sorry I cant make it
<airurando> that should be a blast.
<airurando> enjoy
<duvelhedz> Where are you having the irish one at?
<airurando> http://www.ubuntu-ie.org/node/144
<airurando> Jimmy Chungs (as is becoming the norm) for grub
<airurando> Trinity Capital for socialising afterwards
<duvelhedz> Pilgrimage at this point I would have thought
<duvelhedz> I hope you have a good turnout
<airurando> me to
<airurando> :)
 * popey hugs piepopey 
 * bigcalm spies on the spy
<bigcalm> Aww
<AlanBell> ok, so the CD drive doesn't work and the one I ripped out of another relic doesn't fit
<bigcalm> popey: irssi plugin or something else?
<AlanBell> won't boot from USB
<popey> java thing
<bigcalm> Ah, the original one then
<popey> ya
<AlanBell> PXE might work
<duvelhedz> AlanBell, what are you trying to install on?
<bigcalm> AlanBell: duct tape
<AlanBell> duvelhedz: a P4 Dell desktop from 2002
<X3N> Anyone recommend a good enclosure for sata hdd?
<duvelhedz> If the CD drive isnt completely banjaxed, you could try PLOP boot manager on a CD, Its only a couple of meg so may work to chainload the USB and boot from it
<duvelhedz> basically, you boot from it so you can boot from usb devices
<AlanBell> interesting, that might work
<duvelhedz> Alan, its worth a shot, If it doesnt work for you, I can can give you a dell ide cd drive that i happen to be leaning my arm on at the moment, minus the green things. Ill bring it down tomorrow if you like
<alien2601> HI Guys, Anyone know of any good linux program that can compare files and folders something like "Beyond Compare" for win systems?
<duvelhedz> alien2601, i'm not sure of any GUI software out there to do it, I may be wrong, I am certain there is some kind of compare command you could use if you get stuck
<bigcalm> 3 =+ 4
<bigcalm> 3 += 4
<bigcalm> I cannie remember
<bigcalm> Oops
<bigcalm> $i =+ 4
<bigcalm> $i += 4
<alien2601> duvelhedz: hmm had a quick google hunt and found some options but they don't look great - http://meld.sourceforge.net/
<AlanBell> duvelhedz: thanks for the offer, might take you up on that one
<bigcalm> I find running winmerge in wine works for me
<duvelhedz> Ok, just bring your bag with you tomorrow then and ill sort you out
 * BigRedS adds 'banjaxed' to his list of words to make more use of
<hewbass> alien2601: meld is good. I use it a lot. It is also in the ubuntu repositories.
<alien2601> Thanks for the suggestions .. will check both of them out :)
<shauno> hm, that's odd.  mrtg ran happily for 20 hours, and now coughs up errors on every poll :/
<hamitron> shauno: how did the interview go?
<shauno> I'm really not sure yet
<hamitron> ok :/
<shauno> the only good news is that the person I thought was a shoe-in for the position, apparently isn't allowed to apply because they haven't been in their current position long enough
<shauno> so \o/ for stomping out the competition ;)
<hamitron> :D
<VlRUS> Hello
<VlRUS> people
<VlRUS> :D
<hamitron> and aliens ;/
<VlRUS> ahahahah
<VlRUS> One question
<VlRUS> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/current/ this ver of natty is the same that final ver?
<hamitron> the final version is out?
<VlRUS> i don't know
<VlRUS> i'm asking us
<VlRUS> if this daily ver is like the final ver
<shauno> maybe, maybe not.  sometimes it is, but there's no promises it won't see any polish before the next build
<hamitron> my guessing is there may be a few changes
<VlRUS> I see isee
<hamitron> (11:22:11 PM) hamitron: my guessing is there may be a few changes
<hamitron> no harm in waiting is there? ;)
<shauno> there's been releases where there's no change from the previous daily or two; and there's been releases where they've been frantically working up until the last minute.
<shauno> we don't know which it is until someone from the release team swoops down and blesses it
<hamitron> have the bugs been ironed out?
<BigRedS> for particular definitions of 'ironed out', yeah :)
<hamitron> will do ;)
<Azelphur> Anyone know of a easy/simple php library I can use to do country level geolocation?
<VlRUS> :p
<shauno> I think most people just use maxmind
<Azelphur> fun
<hamitron> hmmmm
<hamitron> early bed, or crack open an easter egg and stay up late?
<hamitron> ;/
<hamitron> choc it is
<hamitron> \o/
<Azelphur> \o/
<shauno> hm.  I was gonna say there's a geoip lib in natty, but it looks like it just uses maxmind too.  so you're probably better off using maxmind's php api rather than trying to wrap libgeoip yourself
#ubuntu-uk 2011-04-28
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Dominic Watkins] Time Machine backup via NFS - http://rowla.dyndns.org/blog/2011/04/27/time-machine-backup-via-nfs/
<sebsebseb> hi
<shauno> hm, that's fun.  just updated my natty vm
<shauno> I have a user called shaun, and a user called natty.  gdm now shows two users called natty
<sebsebseb> well I just joined this channel
<sebsebseb> for what I think is my first time since 2010 some time :D
<sebsebseb> same kind of thing for #ubuntu except that one I might have joined earlier this year very briefly
<shauno> well, howdy :)
<shauno> altho I must warn that 2am isn't a good time to get a first impression of this place :)
<sebsebseb> shauno:  I know
<sebsebseb> shauno: ,but I have been here before a few times in the past, so I know what this channel is like anyway
<shauno> oh, cool.  I can quit pretending we're normal then
<hamitron> shauno: why isn't 2am a good time?
<hamitron> ;)
<hamitron> we are always here :/
<hamitron> or is that the reason?
<hamitron> well, may only do 4 hour days atm, but need *some* sleep
<hamitron> so nn all o/
<HazRPG> think I've almost finished portal 2
<AlanBell> happy release day everyone
* AlanBell changed the topic of #ubuntu-uk to: Welcome to #ubuntu-uk! http://ubuntu-uk.org | This channel is publicly archived http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Mailing List http://tinyurl.com/uukml | Support Guidelines http://tinyurl.com/uuksupport | Meeting 5th May 21:00 BST #ubuntu-uk-meeting http://tinyurl.com/uukmeet | release party: http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/team/889/detail/ Today \o/
<HazRPG> I'm in space! \o/
<HazRPG> AlanBell: wow, its release day today?
<MartijnVdS> Release day today, RW tomorrow, Queen's Day (NL) on Saturday ;)
<MartijnVdS> And lots of alcohol will be consumed 8-)
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: RW?
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: also dude! I'm in space \o/
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: you're in the UK, you must know what's happening tomorrow
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: Space! SPACE! SPAAAACE!
<HazRPG> oh, royal wedding :)
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: you what I'd tell her? I'm in space ;)
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: not sure if I'm excited for release day or not...
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: âª Now I only want you gone
<HazRPG> previous beta/rc crashed on me countless times T_____T
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: xD
<MartijnVdS> this is going to be the most unstable Ubuntu release ever
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: Portal2 is full of win :)
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: I don't know about that, I had issues with 9.10 at one point on release day
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: also portal2 = mega win is full of \o/
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: watching ending again xD \o/
<AlanBell> song for the day http://www.weebls-stuff.com/songs/Narwhals/
<Djones_hd> Perhaps should have a game to guess the official release time. My guess would be around lunch time or early afternoon
<popey> we had a sweepstake last year imo
<Djones_hd> Sweepstake. That was the word I was looking for
<HazRPG> I'm shooting @ ~4PM :)
<HazRPG> also, I always thought it was called a betting pool?
<DJones> Just trying to set up a pad.ubuntu-uk sweepstake page for people to add their names to
<HazRPG> awesome
<HazRPG> hopefully it'll be done before I go to bed xD
<HazRPG> if not, stick in me for around 4PM :)
<DJones> Ok, its set up, just for fun, a little sweepstake to guess the time fo the Natty official release.  No prizes other than the temporary admiration of the winners ability to read the mind of the release manager. Pick a time and add your name to the list. http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/NattySweepstake
<danfish> morning
<danfish> is it out yet? ;)
<danfish> oops - that bot's not in this channel
<DJones> !isitoutyet-#ubuntu-release-party
<lubotu3> Error: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<DJones> Dam
<DJones> Damm even
<ging> is it that day already?
<popey> it is
<ging> i need some sleep
<DJones> HazRPG: I've put you in at 16:30 as danfish nicked your 4pm slot :)
<daubers> Morning
<danfish> HazRPG: oops - sorry - didn't scroll up. I defer :)
<DJones> Heh
<davmor2> morning all
<danfish> o/
<daubers> need breakfast!
<danfish> need MOAR breakfast!
 * DJones considers a Narwhal sandwich
<b1ackcr0w> Its a shame I'm an Atheist - Right now I want to thank god for Senseo :)
<danfish> DJones: I've heard it tastes like tuna ;)
<DJones> danfish: That sounds a bit fishy to me
<BigRedS> I need a new icon for this, methinks: http://twitter.com/#!/isitoutyet
<BigRedS> any suggestions?
<danfish> DJones: stop carping on!
<b1ackcr0w> Isn't the release party the plaice for silly fish jokes?
<b1ackcr0w> I might have to Scampi over there and take a look
<popey> ^5 b1ackcr0w atheism!
<b1ackcr0w> Forgive the personal question Alan, are you sans theism also?
<popey> I am, hence the high five
<danfish> b1ackcr0w: no, he believes in Cod
<popey> mmmmm fish
<popey> http://drool.popey.com/
<b1ackcr0w> danfish: quick, very quick - nealrly lolled
<danfish> :)
<b1ackcr0w> Ironically, I saw Guesthouse Paradiso yesterday. Hope that isn't prescient :)
 * b1ackcr0w considering a nick change to Blackroe :)
<danfish> heh
<b1ackcr0w> I've just learned that a Narwhal is a mammal, so the fish jokes aren't really appropriate. Oh well it was fun whale it lasted.
<DJones> b1ackcr0w: I wouldn't worry, it still swims and eats fish, so its sort of appropriate
<bigcalm> Morning peeps
<popey> pip pip
<b1ackcr0w> GM bigcalm
<bigcalm> Tally ho and off we go
<DJones> For those joininig the channel recently, there is a guess the release time sweepstake on http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/NattySweepstake
<bigcalm> Can I get through the next 9 hours and do any work?
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Tony] OggCamp 11  more tickets available! - http://tonywhitmore.co.uk/blog/2011/04/27/oggcamp-11-more-tickets-available/
<bigcalm> I'm wondering if I should upgrade the eeepc or wipe and install from fresh
<b1ackcr0w> I've just looked up the word Oneiric because I didn't know what it means. Quite a good choice.
<b1ackcr0w> Opinion is divided bigcalm. The official Ubuntu thought is that you should be fine upgrading from a previous version
<gordonjcp> I always do a clean install
<gordonjcp> often onto a new disk, since they're cheap
<b1ackcr0w> The folks over at Mint believe that a clean install removes unused logs and cruft etc that may slow your system over time.
<DJones> bigcalm: I had a 1 week old install of 10.10 and then upgraded
<gordonjcp> bum, I was going to kick off an update last night
<gordonjcp> I can't ssh in because I'm not booted into Ubuntu
<gordonjcp> although I could swap the grub lines around to boot me into Ubuntu, I still don't have ssh configured in 11.04 beta
<b1ackcr0w> Personally, I keep 3 partitions on my desktop HD. One for /home, one for my stable installation which gets upgraded and one for which ever distro I fancy testing
<b1ackcr0w> that setup works well
<b1ackcr0w> I keep a stable distro on the netbook and use cloud to keep the working files up to date
<popey> http://popey.com/blog/2011/04/28/new-release/
<popey> :)
<bigcalm> Are we waiting for 11.04am?
<popey> haha
 * bigcalm tickles popey for being sneaky
 * popey looks at Daviey 
<DJones> bigcalm: Thats a good idea
<bigcalm> GMT or BST?
 * popey shakes fist at bigcalm 
<bigcalm> Gerrof my lawn
<bigcalm> popey: have you got a talk ready for oggcamp?
<popey> nope
<daubers> Has anyone? :)
<Daviey> is it out yet?
 * popey cuddles Daviey 
<daubers> Daviey: It was out 6 months ago
<Daviey> daubers, that is old skool.
<daubers> It's so last year
<bigcalm> It makes me want tea
<oimon> at time of release does everyone have to switch from #ubuntu+1 to #ubuntu en masse, like when wimbledon coverage continues on BBC2 so they can show the news?
<bigcalm> I demand the finest boo^Wtea in all the land
<shauno> oimon: I think they try to shuffle everyone off to #ubuntu-release-party to confuse them first
<oimon> on facebook, 138,990 people like linux, and 138,047 people like android...getting close
<popey> Facebook: The barometer of everything.
<DJones> oimon: I think they either get kicked from the channel or forwarded to #ubuntu fairly quickly & then +1 gets closed for a period
<gord> +1 us normally shut down for a while :)
<Daviey> I hate +1 getting closed, i really do.
<oimon> lol...otherwise u get "when's ocelot alpha coming"
<oimon> for 3 months
<DJones> Daviey: Just join #ubuntu+2 instead
<Daviey> well ocelot will be available from this afternoon :)
<oimon> i never knew it was closed, i just never look in there until 2 mo's before release date
 * oimon does the ocelot dance
<gord> it will? didn't think repos opened for a while
<gord> i normally upgrade at uds
<Daviey> It seems doko is getting itchy feet waiting to upload the first cut of the new toolchain
<andylockran> :)
<andylockran> Good morning
 * oimon reads about banshee moving to gtk3 and dropping support for gtk2
<JR0cket1> Is anyone running 11.04 yet?  I have no updated showing from my current install (from daily), so assuming I am running the same as the release
<SuperMatt> I am
<SuperMatt> you wouldn't have seen any updates for the last couple of days because they've frozen everything
<SuperMatt> what you have installed now should be the final released version
<DJones> I'm running the beta, last updates I had were 30Mb last night
<SuperMatt> hmmm, that may have come from other ppas
<SuperMatt> the only update I've seen this week is an update to tzdata
<DJones> SuperMatt: Could have been, but was possibly 2 days of updates
<oimon> SuperMatt: me too..only 1 update
<SuperMatt> essentially, if you have no updates today, you are running the full version of 10.04
<SuperMatt> 11.04
<oimon> warts and all
<DJones> !warty | oimon No longer supported :)
<lubotu3> oimon No longer supported :): Ubuntu 4.10 (Warty Warthog) was the first release of Ubuntu. End Of Life: April 30, 2006. See !eol for more details.
<Guest12596> are you guys waiting for 11.04 to be release?
<popey> no, the people in #ubuntu-release-party are :)
<bigcalm> Hehe
<Guest12596> ah :D sounds good :)
<oimon> we're wating for 11.10
<oimon> :D
<SuperMatt> oimon: you could probably install the 11.10 alpha tomorrow ;)
<snoeman> Is support available in this channel
<danfish> snoeman: yes
<snoeman> I have just been given a laptop on which I have installed ubuntu 10.10. The laptop has  via chipset with an embedded unchrome pro graphics  card. I am not sure whether I am using the openchrome driver. How do I tell which driiver I am using . Also is this the best driver available
<dogmatic69> snoeman: open system -> preferences -> monitor
<popey> ugh unichrome
<dogmatic69> you get something like if its not ubuntu drivers "Do you want to use your graphics driver vendor's tool instead?"
<popey> thats not the right place dogmatic69
<snoeman> This tells me the resolution and frame rate but not the driver type
<popey> oh, sorry, my bad
<popey> dogmatic69: that only happens for nvidia AIUI
<popey> not unichrome
<dogmatic69> oh
<popey> snoeman: /var/log/Xorg.0.log
<dogmatic69> dont mind me then :D
<gord> hrm, is tomorrow the kind of holiday where shops or open or not?
<DJones> I would guess open
<DJones> Most of the people I know want to go to work to avoid the tv
<gord> avoid tv?
 * TheOpenSourcerer has just got back from doctors, chemist and shops. My youngest son is rather poorly but seems to have perked up after being told to eat sweets, crisps and drink lemonade
<DJones> gord: Is any channel not showing Harry Potter & Hermiones's wedding?
<gord> i don't know, i don't have my tv hooked up to broadcast :)
<AlanBell> they were just good friends, he married the weasly girl didn't he?
<oimon> i thought he was a eunuch
<DJones> oimon: Thats my dog after yesterday
<oimon> not that i've ever seen films/read the books
 * popey wonders if TheOpenSourcerer is coming out to play this evening
<TheOpenSourcerer> popey: I am.
<TheOpenSourcerer> We have a meeting in town at 3pm :-)
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Alan Pope] New Release& - http://popey.com/blog/2011/04/28/new-release/
<DJones> popey: You should get that link added to the !isitout factoid in r-p just to wind people up
 * TheOpenSourcerer is so underwhelmed by Natty that I can't even be bothered to do the customary remove mono blog post. Doubt I will be using 11.04 for a long time.
<oimon> for me, it depends if features will be added between now and 11.10
<gord> eh? features added?
<dogmatic69> what is the correct way to run a script from crontab?
<gord> thats not what a stable release is for
<dogmatic69> its in ~/
<oimon> gord: maybe via third party
<TheOpenSourcerer> dogmatic69: You need to make sure the script has a decent PATH set in it.
<gord> TheOpenSourcerer, you can't use the classic session - assuming your complaining about unity
<dogmatic69> TheOpenSourcerer: how you mean?
<TheOpenSourcerer> then just add a line by doing crontab -e
<gord> ?
<oimon> if the community come up with some nifty additions and things to make unity work better for me, then i might try it
<dogmatic69> TheOpenSourcerer: i have this...  */1 * * * * ./home/ubuntu/backup param
<dogmatic69> Apr 28 09:16:01 ip-10-48-58-180 CRON[18923]: (CRON) error (grandchild #18924 failed with exit status 1)
<dogmatic69> Apr 28 09:16:01 ip-10-48-58-180 CRON[18923]: (CRON) info (No MTA installed, discarding output)
<TheOpenSourcerer> dogmatic69: What's the "." for before the /
<oimon> dogmatic69: i see a dot in the front of your path that shouldn't be there
<DJones> TheOpenSourcerer: I like natty & unity, its turned out to suit me quite well
<dogmatic69> oh
<oimon> dogmatic69: you need the absolute path
<dogmatic69> when i run it in cli, i do ./backup in the folder
<dogmatic69> so figured that was the way... trying without
<TheOpenSourcerer> dogmatic69: But cron needs the full path.
<oimon> ./backup is shorthand for /home/ubuntu/backup because you are in that folder already
<dogmatic69> i thought the . makes it run or something
<TheOpenSourcerer> And inside your backup script add a line something like export PATH="$PATH:/bin:/usr/bin:/sbin(if needed etc).
<TheOpenSourcerer> . meand pwd
<oimon> no, it's a quick way of saying `pwd`
<TheOpenSourcerer> dot means pwd
<dogmatic69> oh
<dogmatic69> cool
<oimon> there's a way to describe the path to a file using the top of the disk tree , which is /
<dogmatic69> so, just */1 * * * * /home/user/backup param ?
<oimon> nothing goes higher than the top /
<TheOpenSourcerer> cron jobs don't really have an environment so it's not uncommon for cron scripts to fail because they can't find the app that a script line refers too.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Alternatively, use full paths for all commands
<dogmatic69> looks like its running now
<dogmatic69> now to make it not run while its running
<DJones> For those joininig the channel recently, there is a guess the release time sweepstake on http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/NattySweepstake
<TheOpenSourcerer> gord My exposure (although limited) to Unity has left me totally cold. And I'm not even keen on the global menu idea TBH.
<gord> TheOpenSourcerer, so use the classic session?
<TheOpenSourcerer> I just fail to see what it delivers. I thought that even the gnome classic had the global menu?
<oimon> linkedin have decided to start spamming me :(
<gord> it shouldn't - iirc we don't use appmenu in classic, its classic
<BigRedS> TheOpenSourcerer: same as Gnome Vs KDE surely? A different way of doing window management/DE?
<TheOpenSourcerer> gord I will get round to trying that again when I have time.
<TheOpenSourcerer> BigRedS: Yep. I have built beta2 of Kubuntu, Ubuntu and xubuntu. Preferred the initial look of xubuntu but it is limited.
<TheOpenSourcerer> I may well end up using debian at this rate
<popey> TheOpenSourcerer: why not just use classic?
<dogmatic69> when you direct something to a file, like command > file.ext is that append or replace?
<popey> replace
<popey> >> is append
<dogmatic69> :)
<dogmatic69> thanks
<popey> np
<TheOpenSourcerer> I "thought" that it still had the global menu thing. But if that is not the case then I may well do so :-)
<popey> oh
<popey> i see
<popey> yeah, it's pretty much the same as old school gnome
<TheOpenSourcerer> OK.
<popey> i think there was a bug at some point where it did have global menu thing
<popey> so you might have seen it then
<TheOpenSourcerer> Ahh, I was sure I read that somewhere.
<gord> it used to have the global menu, but that was just to test the global menu stack
<TheOpenSourcerer> I think for me the main thing is I don't really have the time to spend learning the new UI and larking about. Unity just looks like it was made for kids or my mum/dad.
<popey> you massive old _fart_ :)
<oimon> unity is like marmite :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> tee hee
<popey> \o/ marmite hilight
<MartijnVdS> *shudder*
<dogmatic69> thanks TheOpenSourcerer / oimon
<TheOpenSourcerer> oimon: Yeah - but I like Marmite
<TheOpenSourcerer> dogmatic69: NP
<oimon> so do i, but not every day
<TheOpenSourcerer> lol
<oimon> and only on toast
<TheOpenSourcerer> Nice as a hot drink too
<bigcalm> Â¬.Â¬
 * popey wonders if anyone is having a street party tomorrow
<oimon> i guess natty is a necessary step to making unity better, but lots of people will be turned off
<knightwi1e> morgning
<popey> yes
<popey> it is
<gord> oh god why does the shop still have pringles on buy one get one free :(
<JamesTait> gord: Where? I'm there!
<gord> NO MINE! >:(
<oimon> pringles always cut my mouth at the sides when i try to eat 8 at a time
<JamesTait> oimon: lol
<SuperMatt> oimon: never do what I did and try to eat 30 at a time
<oimon> i'm really into niknaks at the moment, except i can't seem to find the scampi ones
<SuperMatt> ESPECIALLY not salt and vinegar
<oimon> lol
<Knightpad> hey guyz
<Knightpad> i have a small question
<DJones> Knightpad: Its not out yet
<DJones> :)
<Knightpad> i would like to know what command to use to move my *mp4 files out of a directory to another directory
<popey> mv goat_porn/*.mp4 /massive_collection_of_disney_films/
<Knightpad> but i dont think it works when i try mv *mp4 /home/DROPBOX /home/MOVIES
<Knightpad> lol
<Knightpad> thank you popey
<popey> are they all in subdirectories?
 * DJones wondered why that set off a hilight
<Knightpad> but you already gave me your entire collection of goatporn .. remember ?
<Knightpad> the dropbox folder has all my downloaded podcasts,
<Knightpad> i would like to "move out" the movie files to a different folders
<Knightpad> foldeR
<popey> in subdirectories or directly in /home/dropbox?
<popey> why use the command line?
<popey> why not just open file manager, highlight them and drag them>
<popey> ?
<Knightpad> cause i want to script it automatically
<popey> ah
<Knightpad> my computers work for me as i sleep :)
<Knightpad> the paths are :
<Knightpad> /home/DROPBOX/Audio  (this is where ALL the files are)
<Knightpad> /home/DROPBOX/Video (this is where i want the mp4 and m4v files to go)
<oimon> are they mp4 or MP4 files?
<oimon> i.e. case sensitive?
<Knightpad> i think the file ext is all in lower cases
<oimon> Knightpad: try find /home/DROPBOX/Audio -name *.mp4 -ls and paste the results into pastebin
<Knightpad> but there are m4v and mp4 files
<oimon> Knightpad: do it in 2 steps
<Knightpad> oimon: thanx !
<Knightpad> so its probably going to be :
<gerbilschool> msg nickserv identify Distinctly3
<Knightpad> mv /home/DROPBOX/Audio/*mp4 /home/DROPBOX/Video/
<DJones> gerbilschool: Time for a new password
<popey> ooooooops
<Knightpad> gerbilschool: you might want to change that pw :)
<gerbilschool> I get it
<oimon> schoolboy error
<oimon> Knightpad: if there's no mp4 files in subdirectories, yes
<Neoti> so when is ubuntu 11.04 out inj the uk then ?
<oimon> as a sysadmin, if i have disk space, i usually do a cp -r of files rather than mv
<oimon> then i rm the source files after..just in case
<Knightpad> oimon: yep , no subdirs
<TheOpenSourcerer> oimon: cp -a FTW!
<oimon> handy tip for find command: using the -iname instead of -name will allow case insensitive search
<dwatkins> oimon: yeah, it's very useful that - also, the -exec syntax is a little strange, but really useful, e.g. -exec file {} \;
<oimon> dwatkins: yeah, ugh
<BigRedS> that reminds me, while we're here, is there any advantage to piping to xargs rather than using -exec?
<oimon> especially when doing an rm, i once aciidentally did a rm * due to cockup with rm -rf {} \;
<dwatkins> BigRedS: I suspect using -exec might be best if you have special characters in the name, or names starting with '--' etc.
<dwatkins> I think find uses the inode number instead of the name.
<MartijnVdS> no it uses the filename :)
<dwatkins> or at least it escapes the name properly, which might not get handled perfectly when piping the name to xargs
<MartijnVdS> so you'd still have to do -exec rm -- \{} \;
<MartijnVdS> but then you could just use -delete
<MartijnVdS> (I think)
<oimon> my employer insists on requiring ITIL and Prince2 for their vacancies. i wonder if they actually know what they are
<dwatkins> yeah, that's what i was thinking, MartijnVdS - using the '--' option to imply no further options will be supplied
<MartijnVdS> oimon: so does mine.. and I wonder the same
<oimon> MartijnVdS: it makes me not want to go for the job
<dwatkins> Sounds like a game.
<MartijnVdS> oimon: It makes me want to go for another ;)
<oimon> if i have training budget i'd rather get VMware or redhat cert than ITIL crap
<Knightpad> http://pastebin.com/3PmNu50i
<MartijnVdS> If they stop cutting that budget, yes
<BigRedS> dwatkins: yeah, -exec always seems neater. I just can't see why people use | xargs...
<Knightpad> should i put the commands ABOVE or BELOW the "done"
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: xargs can do more than one filename at a time
<oimon> MartijnVdS: you work at a uni or govt?
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: spawning a new process for each file might take longer
<MartijnVdS> oimon: no, ISP
<oimon> oh!
<MartijnVdS> Under-the-radar projects tend to work best here :|
<oimon> i thought only public sector used the job template with ITIL prefilled
<Knightpad> abyone ?
<MartijnVdS> oimon: we're 100% owned by ex-government (KPN - the telco) though
<MartijnVdS> oimon: that might be the source of the problem :)
<oimon> my employer is doing a nokia :(
<MartijnVdS> Mine is still in the "outsourcing is good" stage
<oimon> mine is only just getting into that
<oimon> outsourcing decisions first, soon to outsource support
<oimon> apparently iptables is too hard to support (not like we don't have whole teams of linux dudes), so we should get juniper , cisco which have a good support network : i.e. 3rd party support contract = net result = degradation of support/service
<gord> i'm guessing this is the kind of company that has more managers than regular employees? ;)
<oimon> it's an instution that has issued a burning platform statement , and rushed into a bad alliance with a consultant and MS, after years of excellent open source infrastructure
<oimon> the burning platform only relates to a very small and easily fixed part of the IT setup
<oimon> now we are all on fire :(
<oimon> knightwise: your script looks overcomplicated
<oimon> Knightpad: sorry ^^
<oimon> wrong name
<scoundrel50a> does anybody know if the backlight problem in natty has been fixed yet?
<scoundrel50a> Today is supposed to be the release date, and just wondered if it was worth trying to upgrade.
<BigRedS> it's never particularly worth trying to upgrade on release day
<popey> scoundrel50a: what bug number?
<BigRedS> but what is the backlight problem? Check the bug, that'll tell you
<scoundrel50a> bug 759104
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 759104 in xserver-xorg-video-intel (Ubuntu) "[gm45] Upgrade to Natty wont load" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/759104
<scoundrel50a> when you install, on boot, after the grub, the backlight gets turned off
<BigRedS> it's not closed, so I'd suspect it's not fixed
<popey> that description is rubbish
<popey> it says nothing about backlights
<oimon> if it's a separate bug then a new big needs filing
<BigRedS> and, yeah, that bug doesn't actually say what does or doesn't happen
<BigRedS> ohh, yeah, makes sense now. I was reading it wrong...
<scoundrel50a> If you go down the page, it has more information about it, and Xorg files added
<oimon> scoundrel50a: if you own the bug, i'd change the bug title if i were you
<popey> scoundrel50a: it isnt marked as fixed, so that probably means it isnt
<oimon> if i was an Acer Aspir XXX user with no backlight i'd never find that bug
<scoundrel50a> How do I that? Plus somebody added [gm45] and what should I put instead. Its the first bug I have added
<popey> the bot did that
<popey> leave that there
<scoundrel50a> I just worked out how to get into change the descritop, what should I add?
<scoundrel50a> descrition*
<popey> well, i wouldn't worry about that too much
<popey> it's on bryces radar
<popey> he's the right person to be looking at it
<scoundrel50a> ok. thanks.
<DJones> Target date for 12.04 should be 1st April, then the release manager could upload 700Mb iso's of Rick Astley between 00:00 and 12:00
<dogmatic69> lol
<BigRedS> haha
<scoundrel50a> ok, I have the old version Ubuntu Netbook Remix on my netbook, and it works, and its an Acer Aspire one, would it work on that, or is there something different they did, for Natty?
<SuperMatt> guh, I'm still angry that 11.04 has three different scrollbars on screen all the freaking time
<ali1234> os x has this weird thing where the mouse pointer moves at different speeds depending on where it is on the screen
<ali1234> any idea how i turn it off?
<popey> does it?
<ali1234> yes, it does
<popey> such as where?
 * popey has his osx laptop with him
<ali1234> the mouse pointer moves faster over empty spaces than it does over buttons
<popey> ooo
<ali1234> and menus and anything you can click on
<ali1234> so it's like some parts of the screen are "sticky"
<ali1234> and in other places the mouse pointer runs off out of control
<ali1234> it's really stupid and i want to turn it off
<ali1234> actually this explains why i find it so hard to use global menu on mac and why i always miss the menu bar when i try to click on it
<ali1234> because the mouse pointer slows down before it actually goes over the menu bar and i'm just not expecting it
<BigRedS> Man, I can't wait til I get OSX up on my mac mini :)
<oimon> ali1234: why are you using a mac?
<ali1234> because i have to evaluate xcode for ios app development
<ali1234> i didn't even manage to download it yet it's 4GB
<ali1234> i already used all my download allowance installing the necessary updates to run it
<popey> i cant replicate this ali1234
<ali1234> popey: apparently it's a "feature" of the logitech mouse drivers for OS X
<popey> ah
<gord> that would get annoying. fast.
<ali1234> popey: but just for a launch, try turning mouse acceleration to max like i have, it seems to make it more noticable
<gord> i had to install drivers on windows for my logitech keyboard because they mapped left click + right click to open search or something, instead of y'know, middle click
<ali1234> like acceleration only works when not over a button or something
<ali1234> if you have it on slowest setting it may not happen
<popey> i have no acceleration option
<popey> well, no mouse
<ali1234> it is called "mouse track speed"
<popey> using track pad if that makes a difference
<ali1234> tracking
<ali1234> if oyu have no mouse it is hardly surprising you can't reproduce it :)
<andylockran> popey: how do you scroll up irssi on a mac?
<popey> meh
<andylockran> I can only scroll up the terminal?
 * dwatkins has his Visa card cancelled due to what appears to be a compromised take-away restaurant website
<popey> andylockran: i press page up
<popey> oh, on a mac
<andylockran> popey: where's that button on the mac pro ?
<popey> fn+shift+up
<andylockran> fn+command+shift+up
<popey> no
<popey> bah, lemme test
<andylockran> works for me
<popey> that was from memory
<gord> all that just to page up?
<popey> yes
 * oimon finds it funny that people get mac support in ubuntu-uk..wonder if #mac-uk exists..
<popey> you do not need cmd
<popey> you are pressing cmd when you dont need to
<popey> fn+shift+up
<andylockran> doesn't work for me without command
<BigRedS> oimon: I used to get Debian support in #windows-server somewhere
<popey> you suck at keyboards
<gord> people getting mac support from their friends :) i usually ask friends before the internet too
<andylockran> popey: I suck at most :P
 * andylockran is Glad Gary isn't here...
<andylockran> Who's out in Covent Garden tonight?
<DJones> andylockran: Probably prince william on a last minute stag do
<popey> me andylockran
<BigRedS> I'll be there in a Debian t-shirt....
<mOZART321> HELLO
<mOZART321> woops I mean hello
<X3N> HELLLOOOOOOO
<popey> HELLO!
<mOZART321> Does anybody know when Natty will be out?
<mOZART321> brb
<DJones> For those joining the channel recently, there is a guess the release time sweepstake on http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/NattySweepstake
<X3N> oh
<DJones> And popey's guesstimate has been & gone with no announcement
<popey> er
<X3N> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NattyReleaseSchedule
<popey> bum
<ali1234> isn't it tomorrow?
<popey> no
<popey> today
<ali1234> omglol
<ali1234> is it out yet?!?!?!/
<popey> observe #ubuntu-release-party
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: every time you ask it's delayed by a few more minutes
<popey> heh
<oimon> !topic
<lubotu3> Please read the channel topic whenever you enter, as it contains important information. To view it at any time after joining, simply type /topic
<X3N> important shamportant
<TheOpenSourcerer> "Are we there yet?"
<scoundrel50a> If I have Ubuntu Netbook Remix installed on my netbook, will Natty work if I try to upgrade?
<scoundrel50a> Its basically the same thing
<gord> it will
<scoundrel50a> oh, good, at least I can get one upgrade to work then
<gord> we got rid of the netbook remix for natty so you'll have the regular version, but it will adapt itself slightly
<scoundrel50a> thank you, that is good to know.
<ali1234> i've found while trying to use unity that i'm using coping strategies that i learned on windows 3.1 (and haven't used since)
<popey> heh, such as?
<ali1234> for example i never minimize windows any more, instead i carefully arrange them so i can always see at least 1 part of them no matter which one is on top
<TheOpenSourcerer> CTL+ALT_DEL?
<ali1234> because that's easier than trying to use the dock
<popey> yeah, finding stuff isnt straightforward
<qwebirc44960> Can J ask
<gord> its not out yet :)
<qwebirc44960> when will be ready for download new version of ubuntu 11.04?
<TheOpenSourcerer> "Are we there yet?"
<qwebirc44960> on the offical site is not yet
<DJones> qwebirc44960: Some time in the next 12 hours is most likely
<MartijnVdS> qwebirc44960: every time you ask it's delayed by a few more minutes
<qwebirc44960> j will wait :)
<davmor2> are we nearly there yet?
<DJones> davmor2: Yes. its nearly lunchtime
<scoundrel50a> hehe.....the same question is being asked on all the channels for ubuntu, I am logged into three now, and its quite funny watchiung it all.
<davmor2> DJones: :)  nice
<gord> geez, clicked on #u-r-p by accident instead of #u-uk - thought you had all gone mad
<davmor2> scoundrel50a: watch release-party :)
<Pendulum> gord: you mean we haven't?
<DJones> There's a difference between r-p & -uk?
<scoundrel50a>  where is the realease party?
<gord> less mad :)
<MartijnVdS> scoundrel50a: porterhouse covent garden
<DJones> scoundrel50a: #ubuntu-release-party
<popey> 12:06:07 -!- mode/#ubuntu-release-party [+mz] by tsimpson
<popey> here we go :)
<scoundrel50a> oh, just round the corner, but I am skint today, dont get aid till Tuesday. I would have gone other wise.
<tsimpson> I have no news, I just hate -r-p :)
<davmor2> gord: Just suggested #narwhals_narwhals_livin_in_the_ocean_causin_a_commotion_cause_they_are_so_awesome as the official hash tag don't think they're going for it though :D
<popey> hahah tsimpson
<gord> does that even fit? ;D
<davmor2> gord: no idea I go try it :D
<gord> not much of a party if everyone is muted!
<AlanBell> !natty
<lubotu3> Natty Narwhal is the codename for Ubuntu 11.04, due April 28 2011. Help and support (only) in #ubuntu+1. Natty is beta and is not currently intended for production systems.
<tsimpson> it's funny that most people have not noticed the +m yet
<scoundrel50a> It looks like #ubuntu+1 is muted too,
<popey> kinda killing the party mood there tsimpson
<tsimpson> yeah, I forwarded it to #ubuntu because people were unconvinced that ISOs on the interwebs were not final
 * DJones notes tsimpson now causing nickspam in #u :)
<gord> wonder how many people we will get in #u this cycle
<gord> i remember when a thousand was a huge amount
<DJones> gord: I asked that yesterday, from Pici's stats, was only about 1800 for 10.10, but was 2100 for 10.04
<andylockran> 1024 is even bigger
<ali1234> well 10.04 was LTS right?
<bigcalm> !lts
<lubotu3> LTS means Long Term Support. LTS versions of Ubuntu will be supported for 3 years on the desktop, and 5 years on the server. The current LTS version of Ubuntu is !Lucid (Lucid Lynx 10.04)
<ali1234> and 10.10 didn't have anything big and obvious new about it really
<Neoti> have i won the sweepsteak .... for ubuntu being released... lol
<bigcalm> 10.10 had PHP 5.3 which messed up my dev server
<ali1234> i'd guess over 2000 again
<ali1234> maybe we should have a sweepstake on this too
<davmor2> gord: https://twitter.com/#!/davmor2/statuses/63561900247621632
<DJones> Over 1700 now & US is only just waking up
<TheOpenSourcerer> bigcalm: 10.04 had php-5.3
<TheOpenSourcerer> I still have to pin it back for a few services
<gord> davmor2, it'll never take off! :P
<davmor2> gord: haha
<bigcalm> Was it in 10.04? Humm, yes
<gord> oh, i guess if apple say they are not tracking user data, bbc will just run with that story, okay then
<gord> we should get PR like that
<MartijnVdS> Apple would never lie about those things!
<Azelphur> I know you can pipe to a file with >, but is there a way to append to a file?
<gord> i really like half size windows by throwing them against the edges, but banshee really needs to work on their UI for when that happens
<gord> it really wants to be wide
<Azelphur> > wipes the file and starts from scratch, where as I want to append :p
<JamesTait> Azelphur: Use >> to append.
<brobostigon> good afternoon eveyrone.
<Azelphur> JamesTait: ty :)
<JamesTait> Azelphur: Welcome. :)
<Mozart321> hi
 * ali1234 upgrades internet account. time for some serious downloading
<TheOpenSourcerer> popey: What time do you expect to be in town?
<TheOpenSourcerer> In fact what time is anyone getting up there?
<popey> not sure tbh
<popey> not checked times etc
<AlanBell> release is imminent I think
<bigcalm> Oooer
 * brobostigon checks on free oggcamp tickets.
<TheOpenSourcerer> AlanBell: See you shortly at the station.
<AlanBell> yeah, just going to hit send on an email in a few seconds I think
<popey> 12:34:11 -!- skaet changed the topic of #ubuntu-release-party to: Welcome to the online Ubuntu Release Party! | 11.04 is released !!!!
<popey> will text you when i know TheOpenSourcerer
<TheOpenSourcerer> Ok popey see you all later. We will be around after 4, 4:30 ish I should think.
<popey> i wont be up till after 6 i suspect
<TheOpenSourcerer> laterz all.
<popey> o/
<DJones> Ah well, nobody picked the correct time in the sweepstake, although Neoti was a minute or two away
<davmor2> DJones: put me down for 10 sec before it's actually announced :D
<JamesTait> 11:34 UTC, not 11:04. How disappointing. :-P
<daubers> \o/ melty mirror day
<MartijnVdS> popey: Kate Stewart to ubuntu-announce, ubuntu-release
<MartijnVdS> show details 13:36 (3 minutes ago)
<DJones> And the official announcement has hit the list https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-announce/2011-April/000147.html
<Neoti> Djones.... thought i won it ... cos it was released on there site @ 12:22pm UK Time ... ?
<Neoti> and i picked 12-12:30?
<DJones> Neoti: I was going on the time in #u-r-p & the time of the annouce mail
<DJones> But either way, you were the closest
<Neoti> Doh... oh well .... thats how i am with the UK lotto to... always close never a winner ... :)
<Neoti> lol
<Neoti> hehe
<MartijnVdS> Neoti: Lotteries are tax for the statistically challenged :)
<Neoti> :)
<Neoti> well i will update to 11.04 over the weekend or something not doing it straight away .... lol you never know ....
<MartijnVdS> Neoti: next time, think about this: it's as likely to hit 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 as the numbers you choose :)
<Mez> natty's been released but still with dodgy nvidia support?
<Mez> yay.
<Neoti> im off for some food now ...
<dogmatic69> did i win?
<MartijnVdS> Mez: it's been released with a dodgy UI
<dogmatic69> MartijnVdS: lol
<Mez> MartijnVdS: Nah - that's "optional" at the moment :d
<MartijnVdS> Mez: there's xubuntu :)
<Mez> MartijnVdS: "Ubuntu Classic"
<MartijnVdS> Mez: yes. but not in 11.10
<MartijnVdS> Mez: so xubuntu it is, for me.
<Mez> I know...
<MartijnVdS> Mez: it's faster too
 * Mez shrugs
<Mez> I'm gonna be having a look @ Gnome 3 and KDE4
<brobostigon> i am happy with the gnome3-teams ppa, in natty, with gnome-shell.
<MartijnVdS> I tried it, and gdm didn't let me log in.
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: true, because of a gnome-session issue, in will onlylet you log into gnome-shell at the moment.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: it was worse
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: after entering my password, the gdm window went grey.. and nothing worked
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: that shouldnt happen, i have had a smooth experience it seems in comparison. that s not good, i havent seen that issue personally.
<davmor2> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykwqXuMPsoc pass it on :D
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: I hate you now.
<dutchie> oh, it's out
<dutchie> how exciting
<davmor2> dutchie: yeap
<Mez> davmor2: I actually forgot release was today till I got the announcement email
<davmor2> Mez: D'oh
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: That's what I'm here for don't worry though I hate you back :P
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: :)
 * Mez sticks the narwhals animation onto the big screen
<davmor2> Mez: You need to blast the music out too or it just isn't annoying and addictive :D
<Mez> davmor2: I'm next to the Customer Relations Dept
<davmor2> Mez: you'll drag in customer from far and wide Honest
<Mez> I doubt it.
<davmor2> Mez: But I have such an honest face how could you not believe me ;)
<Azelphur> it seems gb.archive.ubuntu.com is down :p
<Mez> davmor2: I'd be likely to lose my job.
<Mez> Azelphur: just slow
<Azelphur> Mez: slow to the connection timed out point?
<Mez> Azelphur: I'm still managing to download from it.
<davmor2> Azelphur: it's alway slow on release day
<Azelphur> oh, of course release day :p
<Azelphur> I'm already running natty :D
<Mez> http://weebls-stuff.com/songs/Narwhals
<Azelphur> indeed, that should have been the login sound.
<scoundrel50a> I dont thing I will upgrade this computer yet, so, I can see the upgrade button, in the update manager, if I ignore it will it go away, until I am ready to upgrade. The other thing I update by the terminal using sudo apt-get update and sudo apt-get dist-upgrade, if I do the ndist upgrade, will it upgrade to Natty, or just keep to Maverick?
<BigRedS> scoundrel50a: if you don't change your sources.list file, you'll stay in maverick
<BigRedS> the upgrade button edits that file, then runs do-release-upgrade
<BigRedS> which is now more recommended than dist-upgrading
<scoundrel50a> I dont change things, as I dont know what they are, so I should be ok then. Thank you.
<brobostigon> intel gpu hang, not fixed, :(
<brobostigon> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/715096/comments/22
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 715096 in linux (Ubuntu) "[i945gm] GPU lockup (ESR: 0x00000001 IPEHR: 0x02000011)" [Undecided,New]
<brobostigon> this bug is getting frustrating now.
<Azelphur> brobostigon: I get fun random freezes myself on nvidia :D
<Azelphur> My computer just likes to take a break for 60 seconds or so, then return to normal \o/
<brobostigon> Azelphur: it is unrecoverable, other than loggin in via ssh, and rebooting.
<Azelphur> yea, I get that a lot too
<brobostigon> :(
<Azelphur> X just jumps to 100% and that's it your screwed short of kill -9ing X :p
<Azelphur> fun fun
<brobostigon> Azelphur: here, no cpu change or like, the gpu just simply hangs/lockup.
<brobostigon> manuallyrestarting xorg doesnt work.
<oimon> i blame those pesky narwhals
<Azelphur> ^
<ali1234> the mac mini having the built in speaker is really weird
<popey> I might take my narwhal to the release party
<ali1234> especially since when you delete something it makes a sound that sounds exactly like the hard drive breaking
<oimon> i have a mac mini on my desk - i've never turned it on
<ali1234> it took me about 10 minutes to figure out *how* to turn it on
<ali1234> stupid minimalist design
<oimon> that would be embarrassing. i only have it in case of emergency mac support required, never thought about difficulty in finding steve jobs g-spot
<shauno> there's one button on the entire box, and it was too complicated?
 * oimon checks the box
<oimon> maybe the 10 mins was hyperbole...probably meant 10 secs
<ali1234> well i didn't see the button
<ali1234> so i figured it worked off the keyboard or something like everything else on macs
<ali1234> so i was pressing all the keys trying to figure out which one was mapped to power
<oimon> they probably sell an adapter for it :D
<shauno> more likely they thought using the same standby icon as the rest of the world was as obvious as required ;)
 * shauno really should learn not to get in the way of a good trolling
<popey> to be fair, it took me a little while to find the button on my imac
<popey> not minutes, but still
<shauno> the imac's an odd one because it seems too big to put things like that around the back.  so I'd probably look on the front, then the sides, and the back last
<oimon> anyone got any opinions on tablet/laptop hybrids like the thinkpad X220 tablet, and the dell inspiron duo, or the acer iconia ? a user wants me to buy him one
<popey> silly freenode
<popey> oimon: i have a toshiba convertible tablet
<oimon> is it quite new?
<popey> you're looking at the ones that have a removable screen?
<popey> no
<oimon> not necessarily, if you also swivel the screen too
<popey> i dont rate them
<oimon> hasn't given me a lot to go on, but linux compatbility is a bonus
<oimon> the thinkpads seem to have good reputation
<daubers> Boss is considering buying some android tablets with rj45 for diagnostic stuff
<daubers> since we can apparently buy them for ~Â£75 a unit
<dogmatic69> anyone skilled in setting up trac?
<danfish> daubers: oh yeah - he's getting them from me. Now where is that lorry coz I've gotta push something off the back ;)
<daubers> danfish: Some place in china
<oimon> probably nckia or aple
<danfish> hah
<X3N> helping my little brother do his vb homework, makes me want to cry
<danfish> I got a solar charge controller from Hong Kong recently. I swear they chucked the chinese instruction manual into google translate and then pasted the results onto the english manual
<X3N> teaching vb as programming is like learning to drive on a push bike
<oimon> i've managed to get this far in IT never touching VB
<oimon> shame they are teaching kids something a bit better
<oimon> either something useful now e.g. php and web applications in LAMP, or C programming since most languages have C as the root
<Laney> any of you ever bought a gym ball? do they come deflated?
<DJones> Laney: The aerobic ones? or the heavy ones, my wife has bought the aerobic/yoga ones in the past & its had to be inflated
<DJones> s/heavy ones/medicine balls
<Laney> aerobic one, got to get one for physio
<DJones> I'd expect you'd need to inflate it
<Laney> just wondering if I could take the bike to buy it or if I'll have to walk back with a huge ball
<danfish> Laney: deflated - got one for my wife before labour
<DJones> otherwise the amount of storage the retailer would need could be pretty big
<Laney> yep
<ali1234> they could send it inflated with helium to save on postage
<Laney> i was visualising a big basket of them
<Laney> as in the retailer pumps them up and has 5-6 out at a time
<Laney> but yay for transportation, boo for me having to pump it up
<danfish> ...now if you filled 5 or 6 of those with helium you could fly home ;)
<danfish> weeeeeeeee
<MartijnVdS> danfish: I'm in SPAAAACE
<DJones> In space or spaced out from inhaling helium?
<MartijnVdS> DJones: ask HazRPG :)
<oimon> anyone know who i should contact about snail mail spam sent through the post (i.e. stamped) to my address from virgin media? sent to "the occupier"
<danfish> MartijnVdS: your from Holland, so that could mean balloons or some wacky backy :)
<MartijnVdS> danfish: Despite stereotypes, most people here haven't tried drugs (other than "normal" smoking/drinking :)
<danfish> oimon: http://www.stopjunkmail.org.uk/guide/default.php
<danfish> MartijnVdS: I must stop stereotyping - I suspect more UK tourists indulge than the locals :)
<czajkowski> Aloha
<MartijnVdS> danfish: I'm sure :)
<oimon> danfish: http://stopjunkmailblog.blogspot.com/2010/07/how-to-stop-to-occupier-junk-mail-from.html << seems there is no fix
<MartijnVdS> danfish: any tourists really ;)
<davmor2> czajkowski: Huzzah it's a party now for sure
<oimon> i've requested to VM that they stop
<oimon> but no use
<DJones> oimon: Is it addressed to the occupier & your house number & street, or just the occupier
<davmor2> czajkowski: prod
<czajkowski> davmor2: howdy
<oimon> the occupier + my address
<DJones> oimon: Things like that, I just put back in the envelope & post back to whoever sent it with no stamp on
<oimon> DJones: it annoys the heck out of me tho
<oimon> especially as i will never use VM again
<oimon> VM are exploiting a loophole
<gord> wonder if there is a good Fibre to cabinet isp yet
<danfish> oimon: looks like you're right. I get that from VM and the irony is I am a customer!
<brobostigon> can i use a pipe | to put the output from a prog into a text file?
<dutchie> http://lwn.net/Articles/440440/ well that news is not going to be overshadowed at all...
<dwatkins> brobostigon: yes, with tee
<dutchie> brobostigon: prog > file
<brobostigon> thnk you dwatkins and dutchie
<dwatkins> welcome, brobostigon
<X3N> dutchie: it's more like, "huh Slackware still exists"
<X3N> "why"
<dutchie> heh, true
<czajkowski> AlanBell: ping
<oimon> things i have never seen irl: slackware, arch, gentoo
<DJones> slackware is nice in a do-it-yourself sort of way
<oimon> i.e. nothing i'd ever want in an office
<DJones> :) ./configure....... or sudo apt-get install ....
<KrisDouglas> Hello, Is there a way to move the location of the Ubuntu Natty menu?
<ali1234> no
<KrisDouglas> I have 2 24" monitors and it sits in the middle, it's very hard to hit the top left of the first monitor on the right, cause it flips over to the other screen
<ali1234> nvidia?
<ali1234> you can change which screen it is on with nvidia settings
<ali1234> find the option "make this the primary display" and tick it. unity menu will appear on that one
<KrisDouglas> Right, thanks.
<oimon> slashdot are too busy reporting apple stories that they squeeze the ubuntu + slackware release into one story
<ali1234> slashdot gets worse every day
<gord> stopped reading years ago, just trollbait: the website
<ali1234> the comments have always been bad, now the stories are bad too
<KrisDouglas> All sorted
<ali1234> cool
<KrisDouglas> I cannot believe 11.04 doesn't have a failsafe graphics engine
<ali1234> it does
<KrisDouglas> I had to SSH into my pc to get it to boot!
<ali1234> lol
<gord> it always will
<KrisDouglas> NVIDIA graphics driver, had to download it over ssh and then I could see a console
<ali1234> well that's a bug
<KrisDouglas> see a GUI**
<KrisDouglas> My colleague has reported it AFAIK
<gord> sounds like nouveau had problems with your card in 2d mode
<KrisDouglas> Now i just wish the icon size of the unity menu could be reduced slightly.
<gord> it can
<gord> install ccsm and you'll find that in the unity settings
<ali1234> gord: a lot of cards will fail totally (black screen) if you try to do any 3d with nouveau, many of them (like mine) are blacklisted, i guess this one isn't
<gord> ali1234, 3d is not enabled with nouveau by default
<gord> you have to activate it
<ali1234> that's pretty messed up then
<ali1234> there's a bug about my card anyway
<KrisDouglas> Compiz config?
<ali1234> actually, all gt240 cards according to the bug
<scoundrel50a> we,, its a bit jumpy, and takes a bit long to load stuff, but I upgraded my acer aspire one to Natty, as it was running Netbook Remix ok, and it seems to be ok so far. Very surprised, as I cant upgrade my other Acer because of the backlight problem. Quite pleased with that.
<KrisDouglas> It's 9600GT
<KrisDouglas> I really really dislike the way the menu bar merges into the toolbar at the top, is there a way to stop that from happening?
<KrisDouglas> I know that is part of unity, but when you are working with a crapload of machines, it really doesn't help
<oimon> KrisDouglas: you mean, disable the global menu?
<KrisDouglas> yes
<KrisDouglas> oimon, sorry about the poor terminology, I am not familiar with the new Ubuntu yet.
<oimon> KrisDouglas: there's a few ways, here's one i wrote down so i would remember http://oimon.wordpress.com/2011/04/13/disable-global-menu-in-ubuntu-unity-natty-narwhal-release/
<KrisDouglas> oimon, thank you
<KrisDouglas> Am I right in thinking we can no longer have Gnome widgets on the panels?
<oimon> they are disabled, but you can whitelist them
<gord> no
<gord> you can no longer have gnome widgets on panels
<KrisDouglas> I am really starting to dislike this release, nothing is configurable. I liked gnome because I could mess with it's layout. This is set in stone :(
<ali1234> join the club
<KrisDouglas> Am I right in thinking they are doing a gnome-only disk of Ubuntu?
<gord> give it time, you may ome to like it
<KrisDouglas> Or are we going to have to wait for a nice third party gnobuntu or something.
<oimon> KrisDouglas: it is possible to access the old gnome via the login menu
<KrisDouglas> Aha
<KrisDouglas> Ok
<KrisDouglas> I will give it a chance anyway
<KrisDouglas> but this is my work PC and it sits on my desk and does everything that I could possibly need to do, well, at least it couled.
<KrisDouglas> could*
<ali1234> been using it nearly a week now and i haven't found anything i like about it yet
<gord> yeah but you don't like anything ;)
<ali1234> so i changed something in ccsm and now the top panel is just a black bar
<KrisDouglas> I can no longer easily change my pc's clock speed, I can't have my system monitor applet =/
<ali1234> how do i get it back to normal?
<gord> i think i remember there being an indicator to do that KrisDouglas
<KrisDouglas> For clock speed?
<gord> ali1234, step one would be unchanging what you changed
<gord> KrisDouglas, yes
<ali1234> gord: i did
<ali1234> it didn't help
<KrisDouglas> gord, I have just found the PPA for one, I think I may have to be eternally grateful. So will my office's aircon.
<KrisDouglas> is it safe to modify some of the PPA repos I have to use the previous ubuntu release?
<KrisDouglas> for example, terminator does not have a natty ppa yet.
<gord> never "safe" - i wouldn't do it if you absolutely need to have a machine running. though if you absolutely need to have a machine running, i wouldn't run ppa's at all
<gord> a ppa is basically letting someone else install software on your system after all
<KrisDouglas> Agreed, I just use the Chromium and the Terminator PPA
<gord> i would hazard a guess that they would be okay, but well, who knows what they will do in the future
<gord> Ng, no natty terminator ppa?
<KrisDouglas> Doesn't appear to be
<oimon> apt-cache search terminator : terminator - multiple GNOME terminals in one window
<Ng> gord: I've not had time to try natty yet :(
<oimon> seems to be in the repos - do you need a super new version or something
<Ng> although natty ought to have the latest release
<gord> :(
<oimon> !terminator natty
<lubotu3`> Error: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<oimon> !info terminator natty
<lubotu3`> terminator (source: terminator): multiple GNOME terminals in one window. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.95-1 (natty), package size 226 kB, installed size 1884 kB
<oimon> in other news, arnie has signed up for another film..
<dwatkins> I thought he ran California
<ali1234> not any more
<KrisDouglas> oimon, oh.
<oimon> anyone got opinions on compatible toners? hp want Â£90 for a 05X cartridge..some amazon shop is selling compatibles for Â£35
<oimon> refilled refurbs
<ali1234> they're OK but i can't eat a whole one
<oimon> bearing in mind the printer only costs Â£250, using Â£35 toner might break my printer but after using 4 of them i break even
<ali1234> i dunno why it would break
<KrisDouglas> oimon, It won't break it
<KrisDouglas> the quality just isn't as guarenteed on the prints.
<KrisDouglas> We have used compatible toner in our hp for years.
<oimon> they are refilled refurbs rather than new compatibles
<oimon> "Fully remanufactured  in a multi-million pound ISO9001 certified factory. Properly cleaned,  refurbished and re-filled with high quality toner. Not just a re-filled  cartridge."
<X3N> I've refilled my own toner, really not very difficult
<X3N> and much cheaper
<oimon> probably a bit more cancerous than buy your own
<KrisDouglas> Is toner carcinogenic?
<ali1234> probably
<KrisDouglas> that was a stupid question, I am certain it is considering what it does to the outside of your skin when you break a toner cart.
<oimon> "An unpublished study at the University of Rostock in Germany is reported  to have found that the microscopic particles in toners are  carcinogenic, similar to asbestos. Several technicians who had been  working with printers and copiers on a daily basis were observed for  several years. They showed increased lung problems." source wikipedia
<ali1234> yeah you'd have to inhale the dust i would expect
 * KrisDouglas throws laserjet out of the window
<oimon> as a rule of thumb i never sit within 3m of a laser printer
<KrisDouglas> I put mine in the office of my colleague
<KrisDouglas> Nice and healthy in my office
<X3N> the radiation from laser printers isn't good for you either
<X3N> I'm sure there is some kind of H&S on how far away one should be placed from people
<KrisDouglas> I wasn't aware of radiation they produce?
<BigRedS> well, they radiate head...
<KrisDouglas> and steam if the room is cold enough
<BigRedS> heat, even
<oimon> if any of you smoke then the argument is moot anyway
<oimon> or take the tube/live in london
<dwatkins> oimon: I have suspected as much for many years
<dwatkins> about the particles causing lung problems
<X3N> http://www.tssa.org.uk/article-47.php3?id_article=982
<oimon> weather tomorrow: heavy rain
<oimon> oh well
<BigRedS> Hm
<oimon> you can't have everything willy
<BigRedS> What causes frequent re-corruption of db tables?
<X3N> memory corruption
<dogmatic69> BigRedS: innodb + large + random server restarts
<BigRedS> yeah, there's one website which frequently has crashed tables
<BigRedS> which I go in and fix, and I want to blame bad code
<dogmatic69> if innodb is not shut down properly they die
<BigRedS> nah, no restarts for a while
<X3N> you need to find out what you're actually fixing and then work from there
<BigRedS> I'm not going to fix it, I just want to be more constructive than just saying "I think it's bad code"
<X3N> send them the log?
<BigRedS> yeah, that's the plan. I just wondered what sort of things I was accusing him of
<X3N> try a bigot
<X3N> or call him fat
<BigRedS> haha
<KrisDouglas> Well, my install is hosed :)
<X3N> welldone, that was quick ;)
<shauno> not sure there was a sweepstake for that one
<KrisDouglas> my track record for Ubuntu upgrades is never good
<KrisDouglas> always works better when I do a fresh install.
<X3N> the upgrade works better when you do a fresh install? ;)
<KrisDouglas> you know what I mean :)
<KrisDouglas> When i manually reinstall everything
<X3N> agh banshee is being, well banshee
 * X3N shows it the apt-get remove / the finger
<KrisDouglas> only 55gig to backup and i have an SSD so tis fast enough
<KrisDouglas> time to rape the ubuntu servers and download an installer disk
<KrisDouglas> The uk one is intermittently broken for me.
<X3N> I think i'm going to have to move to fedora anyway now :(
<oimon> fedora LOL
<KrisDouglas> Why#
<oimon> X3N: you'll come back screaming
<X3N> I need a working GNOME 3 desktop
<X3N> a) I genuinely prefer GNOME shell b) I work on it so it doesn't make sense to use hacked up ppas
<KrisDouglas> Makes sense
<KrisDouglas> I never really got on with RH as a distro
<KrisDouglas> Same with fedora
<KrisDouglas> Deb and Ubu work well for me
<X3N> yeah, I don't like lots of the defaults or yum/rpm
<X3N> maybe debian experimental is workable
<oimon> does fedora use the fast yum + repos yet that uses deltas instead of entire packages?
<BigRedS> I keep trying Fedora but I always end up finding it so incredibly tedious
<X3N> I think i'll try debian experimental next
<oimon> x3n i build gnome shell on ubuntu by hand
<oimon> went fine
<X3N> so do i at the moment
<X3N> it's not a very sustainable solution
<X3N> plus it's just replicating the work that can be done by using a different distro
<X3N> I'd like to stick with Ubuntu and the community, but the decisions made have forced me out
<gord> i work on unity, i build unity by hand, i dont' understand why you think building something by hand is not sustainable. its what you do when you work on something.
<zleap> hi
<zleap> where can i find a list of all the files including the md5 sums for ubuntu,  i can't find a link to it on the ubuntu site
<X3N> gord: if it was just gnome-shell then yes, i'd agree
<BigRedS> X3N: if you're going to experimental, you almost might as well be Ok with hand building things
<X3N> gord: it's other parts of the gnome stack which have been modified to work in unity which would conflict
<gord> X3N, ubuntu is *never* gonna have all the up todate gnome libs, your always gonna end up building things yourself. there are four five components of unity that i build myself often because it takes time to get in to ubuntu
<X3N> gord: but the fall back stuff for natty is gnome2 stuff right? so if I want to get the dependencies I'll either have to compile them or use a ppa
<gord> for some, not all, it depends on what libs gnomeshell needs that aren't in natty. like i said, ubuntu (no os) is gonna have all the libs you need - apart from maybe a rolling release
<gord> learn how to use pbuilder
<gord> gnome devs love it
<X3N> I use jhbuild, but, either way I keep my desktop relatively stable and do dev work in a seperate environment, but it's still useful to be running and have most of the development stuff provided by the distro
<bigcalm> Fetching file 8 of 1433 at 353kB/s
<ali1234> you could look at OBS too
 * bigcalm is silly for starting the process now
<Myrtti> XFCE all the way â¥
<Myrtti> Xubuntu â¥
<X3N> quick example, rhythbox in natty depends on all the gnome2 stuff, rhythmbox in the ppa depends on gnome3 stuff
<X3N> then there are the API breaks that are in the system level too
<X3N> I'm not saying it difficult or impossible to work around, it's just what is a distro if it's not the packages and configuration you need
<Azelphur> I just had quite possibly the most geeky/awesome idea ever. Wouldn't it be cool if you could mount a small, really widescreen netbook on your arm, on rails
<Azelphur> so you could slide it out from your sleeve and use it, then slide it back xD
<Azelphur> It'd have to be insanely widescreen though, pretty much 2:1 aspect ratio
<ali1234> Azelphur: you'd be like the nerd version of robert de niro
<Azelphur> only more awesome :D
<Azelphur> ali1234: is this gadget in a movie somewhere? I'm sure I've seen it in a movie.
<jacobw> :|
<jacobw> i thought i had the worst tech idea when i thought of a doorbell that sends you an sms message :p
<jacobw> brb
<Azelphur> jacobw: mine can do that, mine executes a shell script!
<ali1234> Azelphur: taxi driver. except it's a gun
<Azelphur> oh :p
<Azelphur> to hell with guns I want computers :D
<winterweaver> so I want to download and install natty (Feeling all bubbly inside) ... I have an alienware. Should I download 64 or 32 bit? Many years ago I remember 64bit being quite buggy. Is this still the case?
<Azelphur> winterweaver: 64bit is fine
 * Azelphur has been running 64bit for like 3 years now
<winterweaver> awesome thx
<Azelphur> winterweaver: how much ram does your alienware have?
<winterweaver> 2gb
<winterweaver> no wait
<Azelphur> wouldn't bother with 64bit then
<winterweaver> lol... I dont even know I never bother looking at it
<Azelphur> winterweaver: free -m will tell you
<winterweaver> it's closed on the table next to me ^_^ ... I'll check real quick
<Azelphur> lol
<Azelphur> winterweaver: if it's >= 4GB use 64bit
<winterweaver> k
<winterweaver> I didn't take any of the upgrade options when buying it, so the bog standard setup is with 2gb I believe
<Azelphur> or if you have a graphics card with an insane amount of memory and 3GB RAM but that's unlikely :p
<Azelphur> fun
<Azelphur> I got one of them for my brother, he runs windows on it
<Azelphur> Myself I have a XPS M1730, my next laptop will probably be an alienware though
<winterweaver> yup it's 2gb .... (m11x
<Azelphur> haha the m11x's are fun :D
<Azelphur> so yea probably use 32bit then, it doesn't matter too much but there's no point in 64bit unless you have >=4GB really
<winterweaver> unfortunately I wont be able to make use of the switchable GPU's till nvidia actually decides to support linux better. But I dont mind since I'll use ubuntu just for work, and will dual boot windows for growling gaming
<Azelphur> hehe, I'm one of the few nutters that games in Ubuntu
<winterweaver> If I had a Desktop, I might try it again... but i've just had hassles on laptops. so I just dual boot it
<Psychobudgie> xchat is broken in natty or to be more specific unity
<Psychobudgie> yay, go shuttleworth
<Azelphur> winterweaver: I do most of my stuff on my PC, my laptop is just for rare occasions :p
<Psychobudgie> no app icon appears in unity which means the only way to bring it back if I minimise it is to alt tab
<Psychobudgie> awesome
<shauno> silly pidgeon. what you running unity for?
<Azelphur> fun
<winterweaver> erm... where is that download page that has the list of images to download? I'm looking for the torrent
<Psychobudgie> I was running gnome 3 up until this morning
<Psychobudgie> then thought maybe I'll try unity again
<Psychobudgie> I shouldn't listen to my thoughts any more
<X3N> Psychobudgie: you were having unpure thoughts
<winterweaver> oh wait I found it
<Azelphur> ali1234: I've been trying to find something like it, there doesn't appear to be anything, madness :(
<Azelphur> I want one. D:
<Psychobudgie> add to that, banshee runs like a complete and utter dog
<Azelphur> it's difficult to search for thanks to all the major keywords being heavily used in other areas eg arm or sleeve xD
<Psychobudgie> it's currently trying to find album art for my entire collection which seems to be killing it
<duvelhedz> AlanBell, do you still want me to brink the CD drive with me later?
<jacobw> banshee has always run slowly
<winterweaver> i've never really had issues with banshee... then again. I only listen to online radio stations. So it doesn't really have much to do on my machine
<scoundrel50a> How do I get Dropbox to work in Natty, it wont show inm the bar, and I cant get it to connect.
<Psychobudgie> just figured out why banshee was running slow
<winterweaver>  hmm?
<Psychobudgie> there were two banshee's running
<Psychobudgie> how, I have no idea
<winterweaver> probably middle clicked the icon?
<Psychobudgie> possibly
<Psychobudgie> shouldn't allow me to do it though
<Psychobudgie> cannot think of a single instance where having two banshee's open would be a good thing
<winterweaver> probably
<MartijnVdS> Psychobudgie: 2 sound cards, different rooms :)
<winterweaver> O.o
<Psychobudgie> still wouldn't be a good thing
<Psychobudgie> banshee seems to crawl into a corner and die when it has more than one occurence open
<Psychobudgie> to be perfectly honest I'm finding the xchat issue more annoying
<Psychobudgie> keep minimising it and forgetting that it's already open and launching it again
<Psychobudgie> brb, gonna try something
<daniel_> Can we have more workspaces in 11.04? Would like to add more
<winterweaver> daniel_ I dont think so
<winterweaver> but I dont know either
<winterweaver> what happens if you add more workspaces in the compiz config?
<daniel_> hmm will check
<zleap> i think there are workspaces
<zleap> i am sure there was a button on the side bar thing to switch
<winterweaver> zleap, yes, there are... but by default there are only 4... and daniel_ wants to have more than that :)
<zleap> ok
<zleap> i am off, chat later
<Psychobudgie> tried irc in empathy and, no, just no, god no
<winterweaver> lol
<winterweaver> I've tried it in pidgin a while back... and also had a bad experience... xchat remains king
<winterweaver> only thing, I always get confused with the two different xchat versions in the repo
<Psychobudgie> thus this unity bug being annoying
<winterweaver> Psychobudgie, does it happen with any other apps? or just xchat?
<Psychobudgie> just xchat
<Psychobudgie> both xchat and xchat-gnome
<Psychobudgie> same issue
<daniel_> might have screwed up my top taskbar compiz doesnt play nice with unity
<Psychobudgie> no unity process icon
<winterweaver> what happens if you change the icons set?
<Psychobudgie> nothing
<Psychobudgie> doesn't help
<Psychobudgie> the icon is there in alt-tab
<daniel_> if i swap workspaces i briefly get my unity icon with the file drop down box etc. but when i sit on one screen
<Psychobudgie> it's definitely a unity issue
<daniel_> i get yellow green and blue lines
<winterweaver> I see bugs being filed :)
<Psychobudgie> I already have
<winterweaver> I'm currently creating the startup usb disk to play with
<Psychobudgie> brb
<daniel_> see a bug already files apparently have to boot into recovery and back again have to wait till
<daniel_> openshots done
<Psychobudgie> fixed it
<Psychobudgie> uninstalled xchat, deleted everything that had anything to do with xchat, rebooted, reinstalled and copied my settings back and voila it appears to be fixed for the moment
<Psychobudgie> however it started well like this earlier before going to pot very quickly
<winterweaver> Psychobudgie, then make sure you dont go to the pot again :)
<Psychobudgie> @_@
<Psychobudgie> still a bug though
<Psychobudgie> anything that requires a reboot to fix is either a bug or windows
<dragonkeeper> is there a command that will merge all the  data in a multiple txt files into 1 txt file ?
<bigcalm> Merg or append?
<bigcalm> e
<bigcalm> cat file_b.txt >> file_a.txt
<bigcalm> That will stick file_b.txt on the end of file_a.txt
<jacobw> I quite like Unity
 * jacobw runs
<sirgad> anyone know of an IRC room for UCK?
<jacobw> uck?
<sirgad> Ubuntu Creation Kit
<sirgad> like nlite for ub
<dragonkeeper> bigcalm  so if i want  file1 + file2 + file3 to be in 1 file  1 after another      use  cat file1 >> file2   ?
<dwatkins> cat a b c > newfile
<dragonkeeper> oki
<dwatkins> note: newfile will be erased and rewritten if it already exists
<dwatkins> >> appends, > creates and writes
<scoundrel50a> hi, does anybody know how to get dropbox to work inj Natty?
<sirgad> anyone know how to manually edit files on a Ubuntu Live CD to change settings?
<dwatkins> sirgad: what kind of settings?
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: Ask me what? If I'm in space?
<sirgad> well, top of the list is the default wireless driver used, next is defaulting to two-finger/horizontal touchpad scrolling.
<jacobw> I don't think there is a default wireless driver, as far as I know drivers are loaded depending on what hardware the installer detects
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: ...
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: you're spaced-out you mean :P
<winterweaver> oh nice I like the unity scrollbars
<sirgad> to put it into context: my ISO boots up on my MacBook Pro and offers me restricted drivers (ie. proprietary ones) as an install option, but using them requires restart - which is piontless on an ISO :) So, I need to make them the default permanently.
<jacobw> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/MacBookPro
<duvelhedz> sirgad, use unetbootin on your mac to write the iso and create persistance that will save changes
<sirgad> @duvelhedz: and once the changes i want to make are save, can i then disable persistence?
<duvelhedz> persistance keeps the changes on a usb
<duvelhedz> along with the OS so it will be much faster to boot
<sirgad> on a separate device basically?
<sirgad> but hang on, according to Unetbootin: "Microsoft Windows 2000/XP/Vista/7, or Linux, or Mac OS X 10.5+. Note that resulting USB drives are bootable only on PCs (not on Macs)."
<duvelhedz> booted for me inabout 10 seconds on an e6410, was well surprised
<VlRUS> Hello
<duvelhedz> could you chainload the usb with PLOP boot manager?
<VlRUS> Why if i set "new wave" theme in Gnome desktop in 11.04 and If i click the left corner the window title dissapeears?
<sirgad> @duvelhedz: lol wut? over my head i'm afraid.
<HazRPG> What time did Natty actually get released then... *pokes* http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/NattySweepstake
<duvelhedz> plop is a bootloader on a cd, you could try burning it up and holding down the c key with the disc and usb in
<sirgad> Hmm, that's all getting a bit contrived tbh. This is supposed to be a portable secure banking solution.
<sirgad> Ok, let me try something else.
<sirgad> How about just altering the gconfs to default to two-finger and horizontal scrolling?
<HazRPG> hmm... anyone I know here going to oggcamp? (noticing that more tickets have gone up)
<brobostigon> HazRPG: o/
<sirgad> btw duvelhedz, you belgian?
<HazRPG> (notices brobostigon and popey on there)
<duvelhedz> irish sirgad
<HazRPG> brobostigon: :)
<brobostigon> HazRPG: :)
<sirgad> ah, kk. you just like Belgian beer! :P
<duvelhedz> oh yeah, ive had that moniker for years!
<sirgad> it's good stuff, one of my favourites.
<brobostigon> HazRPG: it is going to be damn scary, but hopefully ok.
<winterweaver> so... I noticed that every ubuntu distro runs my battery out a lot faster than windows. Is there anything I can do to improve battery life?
<HazRPG> brobostigon: it should be fine :)
<duvelhedz> Have to head lads, best of luck with your MBP install sirgad
<sirgad> ta duvelhedz
<brobostigon> HazRPG: i hope so, yes, :)
<HazRPG> noticing AlanBell on there too
<HazRPG> don't think I recognise most folk by their real names xD
<brobostigon> HazRPG: remeber, the organisers, dont need tickets.
<HazRPG> brobostigon: Ah, so both Laura's should be there then
<brobostigon> HazRPG: i would guess so, yes.
<HazRPG> brobostigon: still don't know most by their proper names though :P
<brobostigon> HazRPG: i know a couple, but not many.
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: You going to OggCamp?
<HazRPG> brobostigon: I'm tempted, Surrey is just miles away though...
<HazRPG> brobostigon: Might have a look to see how much rooms cost, etc
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: can't make it -- have to be in Riga on the Monday after
<brobostigon> HazRPG: for me, its a coupleof hours train journey, and staying somewhere for one night, cant be much.
<HazRPG> brobostigon: think it's a minimum 5hr train for me
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: (that's Riga, Latvia)
<brobostigon> HazRPG: ys, that is alot longer.
<HazRPG> brobostigon: hmm, I wonder if a plain would be cheaper xD
<HazRPG> plane*
<brobostigon> HazRPG: maybe.
<daubers> o/
<jacobw> http://i.imgur.com/Zb9tJ.png
<dutchie> lo daubers and jacobw
<jacobw> hi dutchie
<jacobw> hows its going?
<dutchie> not too bad
<dutchie> looking forward to a fun day of exams tomorrow :(
<jacobw> argh :(
<jacobw> hi issyl0
<jacobw> hmm, banshee in unity still doesn't write metadata to files by default :|
<HazRPG> brobostigon: apparently I can get to oggcamp by train for Â£18.50 ... but if I want to come back its going to cost Â£161! That makes no sense!
<gord> HazRPG, o_O where are you booking this?
<HazRPG> http://ojp.nationalrail.co.uk/service/fares/tickets
<gord> i mean, Â£161 is like first class london prime time ticket prices
<HazRPG> I can't put in the oggcamp dates however for some reason
<gord> national rail site sucks, you can't send links :)
<gord> "Sorry, your session has timed out"
<daubers> HazRPG: Where to where?
<HazRPG> CAR to FHN
<brobostigon> HazRPG: wow, yes, thats weird.
<HazRPG> I put in 19th Jul to 20th Jul, cos those are the only dates it would allow me to put as a maximum
<gord> FHN?
<HazRPG> Carlisle to Farnham
<gord> oh FNH
<HazRPG> ah sorry
<brobostigon> HazRPG: my cousin, lives in carlisle.
<HazRPG> brobostigon: oh really?
<HazRPG> brobostigon: heh maybe I know him, what's his name?
<HazRPG> still can't believe I can get there cheaper then it would be for me to return!
<brobostigon> HazRPG: william.
<HazRPG> I can imagine driving won't be any cheaper
<gord> returns on the 20th are 31 when i search
<gord> try again
<HazRPG> brobostigon: same last name?
<gord> Â£41
<gord> Â£31!
<brobostigon> HazRPG: yes.
<gord> typing is hard :(
<issyl0> Hi jacobw!
<daubers> gord: Design a new interface to make it easy
<HazRPG> gord: heh I got Â£109.10 that time
<gord> =\ my life is not a punchline!
<HazRPG> might go into a trainstation and see how much it costs from there
<HazRPG> might be even cheaper since its August I'm after not July
<HazRPG> apparently it'll cost me Â£118.20 at current fuel prices to drive down and back
<brobostigon> HazRPG: if you are driving, you could come past, and get me, :)
<HazRPG> ^_^
<brobostigon> HazRPG: and i willgive you somefuel money.
<HazRPG> brobostigon: \o/
<brobostigon> HazRPG: save us both some money.
<HazRPG> if I can get at least 2-3 other people, would be awesome!
<brobostigon> HazRPG: yes.
<HazRPG> might go ask around and see if anyone wants to go :)
<brobostigon> :)
<HazRPG> *picks up blowhorn*
<brobostigon> HazRPG: i am just north of oxford, what route would be the best fromwhere you are?
<dutchie> carlisle, i'd guess m6/m40
<dutchie> which would go right past oxford(shire)
<HazRPG> bah, apparently my best friend can't go cos someone has already booked the 13th off
<HazRPG> dutchie: you be correct m6/m40 :)
<brobostigon> brb,
<HazRPG> sod it, going to put me down for a ticket regardless and worry about getting there over the next month or so :)
<HazRPG> (considering its gone from 100 extra tickets down to 24 already!)
<ali1234> i recommend you go by coach
<ali1234> it's incredibly cheap
<ali1234> it will take 7 hours though
<ali1234> but with the money you save you can get a hotel room :)
<HazRPG> ali1234: So I'd probably have to go down on the Friday that way
<HazRPG> indeed!
<ali1234> booked in advance it might be as little as Â£10 each way
<HazRPG> ali1234: hopefully :)
 * brobostigon looks at coashes aswell.
<brobostigon> coaches*
<ali1234> ugh
<ali1234> launcher menu is not visible on screen but something is blocking mouse events over the area it normally occupies
<ali1234> also my top panel is still invible after the easlier incident
<ali1234> i can't see any global menus even
<Azelphur> yay, missed a quote when messing with my mysql database and broke everything
<Azelphur> daily backups to the rescue \o/
<Monotoko> hello :)
<HazRPG> Azelphur: heh, good thing really
<brobostigon> ok, national express dont do anything on the few days before, to farnham.
<HazRPG> Monotoko: hey
<Azelphur> indeed
<Azelphur> Only thing is I have a --all-databases backup, what's the best way of extracting a single table outta that?
<Monotoko> In the US at the moment...but UK born and bred :P
<X3N> http://erkie.github.com/
<brobostigon> ok, anyother coach companies that might fit the bill ?
<ali1234> Azelphur: edit with text editor
<ali1234> try not mess it up this time though
<Azelphur> ali1234: downloading, opening in a text editor, a 520MB file = probably bad idea
<Azelphur> gedit would probably choke on that a bit
<ali1234> do it on the server
<ali1234> (lol)
<Azelphur> xD
<ali1234> use .... vi
<Azelphur> how could I even find the right table in this thing? it's huge xD
<danfish> lcd /usr/share/doc/asterisk-sounds-extra
<Azelphur> If worst comes to worst I'll have to dl the dump and run a local mysql server for a second and extract the relevant table
<danfish> opps - fail :)
<ali1234> Azelphur: yes
<ali1234> except do that on the server
<Azelphur> ali1234: but I can't run 2 mysql servers at the same time? XD
<ali1234> dump everything except the broken table, import old backup, import backup you just made
<MartijnVdS> \o/ referential integrity
<MartijnVdS> oh wait, mysql
<ali1234> i missed s step: drop everything except the tabel you want to fix
<Azelphur> urgh, that involves shutting down everything that's using the other tables xD
<brobostigon> coaches, fail.
<Azelphur> which would mean 4 websites 4 gameservers and an IRC server, probably not a good idea
<Monotoko> Azelphur, you need server space?
<Azelphur> nope?
<Azelphur> I already got server space :D
<Spudulike> Anyone still in The Porterthouse
<Azelphur> Monotoko: why you ask?
<ali1234> Azelphur: figure out what your bad command did, and undo it by hand
<Azelphur> ali1234: I know what it did, It reset every single ban reason in the database, so not undoable by hand
<Azelphur> I'll just download the dump and load it locally, then pull the right table I guess
<ali1234> actually i think mysql has an option that does what you want
<Monotoko> Azelphur: <Azelphur> which would mean 4 websites 4 gameservers and an IRC server, probably not a good idea
<Azelphur> it's easy enough, just irritating to download, at least it's only 82MB download
<Monotoko> I think I came in half way through a convo! :P
<Azelphur> Monotoko: yea, they are all running on my server space :D
<Azelphur> Monotoko: yea xD
<brobostigon> HazRPG: found any coach leads?
<Azelphur> only 7 mins to download, not bad :D
<ali1234> Azelphur: i'm pretty sure you can tell mysql to ignore everything except one table in the dump you feed it
<Azelphur> fun
<Azelphur> maybe phpmyadmin has something on that
 * Azelphur noses around the import page
<ali1234> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1013852/can-i-restore-a-single-table-from-a-full-mysql-mysqldump-file
<Azelphur> nothing in phpmyadmin, not to say it isn't there :p
<Azelphur> ali1234: nice find, I'll try that :D
<Azelphur> yup, looks good :D
<Spudulike> I suppose people might still be there, just too drunk tool be on irc?  It'such a rabbit Warren of a pub I can't see a likely group.
<brobostigon> ok, coach is out of the question, nothing, zilch.
<Azelphur> Spudulike: haha your at the release party?
<Azelphur> Spudulike: popey is probably about some place, if he doesn't reply on IRC try tweeting at him.
<brobostigon> ok, Â£11.50 each way, banbury - farnham, return,
<Azelphur> ali1234: that sed command worked perfectly, everythings back up and running now :D
<Azelphur> Had to poke some of my staff members and ask them why they banned a couple of people over the last 24 hours, haha
<jibadeeha> oh man that #ubuntu channel has gone crazy tonight ... anybody would think canonical have just released a new version of Ubuntu
<MartijnVdS> the most unstable one ever
<jacobw> ;)
<jibadeeha> MartijnVdS, it seems that way from watching the scrolling comments flying by my irc window ... it seems very stable to me though on my netbook
<Monotoko> seems stable on my computer too
<Monotoko> it's not as bad as it was earlier in there
<jibadeeha> i think those with nvidia cards are having trouble from what i see
<jacobw> hm ~1800 nicks
<Monotoko> my clocks wrong >.>
<jibadeeha> unity doesn't seem to be getting much praise, but i hope canonical stick with unity
<kvarley> Just installed Natty, I can't seem to find how to enable desktop effects. I am looking in Appearance which is where it was in previous versions, has it moved?
<jacobw> people don't like change, even people who spend a lot of time talking about it
<jibadeeha> i think you hit it on the head there jacobw
<kvarley> jibadeeha: I think people aren't adapting to the change very well. I'm still earning the interface but can see why they've chosen the layout and stuff, it works well and is beautiful
<kvarley> *learning
<brobostigon> i must admit, i am happy with gnome3 and unity, but certainly prefer gnome3. unity still has huge failings, inits operation, and thecooperation with my head.
<jibadeeha> i have to admit that when i saw the screenshots of unity a few months ago i thought it was ugly, but having used it for a couple of weeks i think it is work of art and it feels so much better than gnome classic ... you are right it is beautiful
<jibadeeha> for me this is the first version of Ubuntu that answers Win7 and OSX .. albeit a few unpolished edges, but it is pretty damn close
<jibadeeha> brobostigon, i haven't tried gnome3 but like the screenshots .. heard it isn't very stable though
<brobostigon> jibadeeha: its definatly stable, i havent had any gnome3 specific issues in months,
<jibadeeha> brobostigon, would you say they are gnome3 and unity are both on par?  suppose it is subjective
<brobostigon> jibadeeha: gnome3 and gnome-shell fit better with how i work. unity's workspace management and window management dont work with me properly, and  unity always feel like astriggle to work, whereas gnome-shell just fits right.
<jibadeeha> brobostigon, my use case is only really browsing the web, checking email, and irc so probably haven't pushed unity to the limits .. it works well on a netbook for me and i welcome the extra screen space that the global menu provides ... if i was using ubuntu at work then i would probably see the shortfalls and need something like gnome-shell
<jibadeeha> tempting to try gnome-shell now
<brobostigon> jibadeeha: maybe, yes. but everyone works differently, nd thinks differently, so somthing will work for one person and not for another.
<brobostigon> jibadeeha: dont try the gnome3-team ppa, becuase of an error in gnome-session, you might not be able to start unity from gdm, in favour of gnome-shell.
<brobostigon> jibadeeha: untill it is fixed.
<brobostigon> jibadeeha: or make sure, it doesnt update gnome-session when you install gnome3 from that ppa
<jibadeeha> brobostigon, thanks will take note of that .. and will try it on my experimental laptop so i don't mess anything up here
<brobostigon> jibadeeha: ok, sounds like a good plan. yes.
<brobostigon> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-sso-client/+bug/745540
<lubotu3`> Ubuntu bug 745540 in ubuntu-sso-client (Ubuntu) "Method "CreateItem" with signature "a{sv}(oayay)b" on interface "org.freedesktop.Secret.Collection" doesn't exist" [Medium,Triaged]
<brobostigon> it says, a fix is committed, howlong does it take to trickle through?
<cbx333> hey guys
<brobostigon> good evening cbx333
<cbx333> howz it all going guys
<cbx333> anyone know what the start up sound in the new ubuntu is like?
<brobostigon> cbx333: it is the same as the old one, here
<cbx333> w00t w00t
<cbx333> my sounds makes it for one more release :)
 * cbx333 does a little dance
 * cbx333 is contemplating upgrading this machine
<cbx333> but it may break a great many things
<cbx333> and the hdd is not great - maybe I'll just wait a while till i get a new one
 * cbx333 has always had the nice shinyness on the first day
<cbx333> it's hard not to press that magic button
<dwatkins> the power button?
<davmor2> Moo!
<brobostigon> BOO!
<brobostigon> ok, suggestions, i need something interesting to waste a few hours on.
<gord> brobostigon, minecraft?
<dutchie> s/hours/weeks/
<Guest18290> hi, did anyone have a problem upgrading to 11.04 from 10.10
<brobostigon> gord: if i had a copy,
<Azelphur> Guest18290: I upgraded 3 months ago, but no :D
<Guest18290> i ththought that the release is today
<brobostigon> Guest18290: it was,around lunchtime.
<Guest18290> it show 11.04 when i click upgrade, it say Could not download the release notes, pleasecheck your connection
<Guest18290> i have also try the upgrade via the console and there is a lot of connection failure to the ubuntu server
<brobostigon> Guest18290: the repos will probebly be being pummeled right now, with alot of traffic, thatmight be why.
<fastspace> best thing to do is download the iso mount with usb or burn a cd and upgrade that way
<Guest18290> even the  try ubuntu online is having a problem  try-ubuntu-beta.ec42.net
<Guest18290> ok but i do not have a cd burner on my desktop
<Guest18290> so i am stock
<fastspace> use a usb stick
<Guest18290> good idea, thamk you
<Guest18290> i have a 1 gb usb is it enough
<fastspace> make it with start up disk creator. 1gig should be enough if you dont use any persistent space
<Guest18290> ok thanks,
<cbx333> i have a box that's not 100% up to date - is it safe to do a dist upgrade?
<brobostigon> gord: anything like minecraft, but OSS, and free?
<brobostigon> cbx333: i would wait untill the traffic on the servers calms down.
<cbx333> I'm sure it was quicker than this last time
<Guest18290> when i format my usb should i format as FAT or compatible with EXT4
<brobostigon> Guest18290: startup disk creator will do the formatting for you.
<Guest18290> Thank you, much appreciate your help
<brobostigon> :) you're welcome.
<gord> brobostigon, no idea sorry, open source games aren't great :(
<brobostigon> gord: ok,phwell.
<brobostigon> ohwell*
<brobostigon> gord: i did find a good OSStron game the other day.
<gord> brobostigon, this will keep you going for a while though :) http://www.foddy.net/GIRP.html
<brobostigon> gord: let me look, :)
<Guest96279> hi there
 * brobostigon is on the lastbits of his easter egg.
<hamitron> meh, everyone will be out partying tonight?
<brobostigon> nope,
<brobostigon> :(
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> OH
<hamitron> new google apps users have a lower user limit
<hamitron> or will so after 10th May
<brobostigon> yes.
<hamitron> I sort of expected them to make changes
<hamitron> any private company would do so to increase income, once a product starts to take off
<hamitron> I am only surprised someone like facebook hasn't started charging for extras
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jonathan Riddell] Kubuntu 11.04 for the Upgrade - http://www.kdedevelopers.org/node/4420
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Ubuntu 11.04 Natty Narwhal Released - http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/04/28/ubuntu-11-04-natty-narwhal-released/
<Nafallo> hamitron: what on facebook would you actually pay for?
<brobostigon> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-o-gtk3-gnome3
<brobostigon> interesting,
<hamitron> Nafallo: I dunno, I not actually used it
<hamitron> but they have a huge user base to exploit
<hamitron> ;)
<hamitron> brobostigon: I hate changes to major libs :(
<hamitron> s/exploit/"tap into"
<brobostigon> hamitron: it doesnt really bother me, ihavent noticed any issues with the change to gtk3, nor any issues. so please elaborate.
<hamitron> change requires changes to apps that rely on them
<hamitron> as a summary
<brobostigon> hence gnome3,
<brobostigon> as a whole.
<hamitron> but then you have old apps and stuff
<brobostigon> updates in gnome as a whole to.
<hamitron> Gnome itself is not the hassle
<brobostigon> hamitron: sure, but i havent seen any issues yet.
<hamitron> issues with what?
<hamitron> old apps?
<brobostigon> older gtk* apps,with gnome3.
<hamitron> but you will need the older gtk installed?
<brobostigon> i have both, i think, at the moment, yes.
<hamitron> that is my problem
<hamitron> ;)
<Monotoko> do you guys know how to open multiple terminals in unity?
<brobostigon> hamitron: however i am sure, it would be possible without, i might try it, and see what happens,
<brobostigon> Monotoko: inside terminal's file menu, open terminal.
<hamitron> I just find it frustrating having different apps needing a different lib, that basically does the same as another lib I already have
<Nafallo> Monotoko: ctrl alt t
<brobostigon> Nafallo's suggestion is better.
<Monotoko> ctrl alt t...great thank you :D
<hamitron> :)
<brobostigon> hamitron: maybe,but iam sure, gtk3 improves in alot of ways,upon gtk2, otherwise there would be no point in improving or updating or bug fixing anything.
<hamitron> yeh
<hamitron> but still hassle :/
<hamitron> I guess I can forgive gtk, as it seems to at least stick to 1 version for a decent amount of time
<brobostigon> hamitron: and i am sure, gtk3 is mostly backward compatible, aswell.
<hamitron> but some things (like android) as a base, are rapidly changing
<hamitron> and it makes a moving target for app devs :/
<brobostigon> hamitron: i doubt theywill port gtk3 to android, really.
<hamitron> it isn't about gtk only, just the principle of moving targets
<hamitron> and it is one reason the commercial sector often don't support linux as a platform
<brobostigon> hamitron: like gnome itself,it gets gradual and steady improvement and fixes over time.
<hamitron> gnome and gtk are not the worst offenders of my complaint
<hamitron> ;/
<brobostigon> elaborate.
<hamitron> "one reason the commercial sector often don't support linux as a platform"
<hamitron> different parts move at different speeds, and it is very hard to support such a wide range of software setups
<brobostigon> hamitron: ubuntu and debianare good examples, they are consistant and stable, for lengthy mounts of time, 6 onths in ubuntu's case, todebian in years.
<hamitron> 6 months is nothing
<hamitron> even the lts with 3 years is not that long
<brobostigon> 3 years is huge development cycle time,
<hamitron> most my clients cry at the idea of having to upgrade at all ;)
<brobostigon> and consistant over the whole of thatperiod.
<brobostigon> hamitron: even bug fix, upgrade?
<brobostigon> and stability upgrade?
<hamitron> they like bug fixes
<hamitron> but not developments that break compatibility
<hamitron> some sectors, like the public sector have it easy with funding
<brobostigon> hamitron: in debians case, thathappens only with maybe, with every stablerelease, but not stricktly so.
<hamitron> to some, IT upgrades are just a cut taken out of the profits
<hamitron> ;)
<brobostigon> with upgrades there are many upside a downside considerations, it isnt  solelya money consideration.
<hamitron> more often than not, for the average user it just looks a bit different
<hamitron> doesn't actually improve something that does the job already
<brobostigon> well, gnome-shell for me, improves alot on gnome2, which always worked, ok, but not really  well. to gnome-shell which with allthe improvments, works excellantly.
<hamitron> it isn't about the software provided with the distro though :/
<hamitron> it is about 3rd party software that depends on other stuff
<hamitron> if you take any linux distro in isolation, they are generally improving
<brobostigon> umm, flash? java?
<hamitron> I agree
<hamitron> I'm talking commercial software
<hamitron> :)
<brobostigon> those two are, commercialsoftware,
<hamitron> I mean real stuff
<hamitron> Â£25k jobs
<hamitron> ;/
<hamitron> flash and java don't cost a user on upgrading
<hamitron> apart from some testing
<brobostigon> hamitron: it does, here because on natty, on a certain kms a intel driver conbination, flashcauses gpulockup hang, so using flash costs alot.
<brobostigon> compared to previously.
<hamitron> another example of changes that can burn then
<brobostigon> thats issue is a combination of many factors.
<hamitron> Xorg updating so fast nvidia won't provided new drivers for old hardware is another
<brobostigon> that nvidia, not wanted to write anything,
<hamitron> no, it is the fault of the linux distro also
<brobostigon> nouveau, doing the same work, its providing, as far as i cansee,supported for older nvidia chipsets,
#ubuntu-uk 2011-04-29
<hamitron> new xorg has broken support for old products, and no OSS driver replaces them yet
<brobostigon> hmmm.
<brobostigon> anyways,me tired. good night everyone, sleep well.
<hamitron> nn :)
<brobostigon> shutdown -h  now
<brobostigon> nn :)
<hamitron> this is also why I could see the move by nokia to choose wp7 possibly a good thing
<hamitron> :(
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Dominic Watkins] USB attached disk hangs - http://rowla.dyndns.org/blog/2011/04/28/usb-attached-disk-hangs/
<AlanBell> o/
<AlanBell> gosh, is that the time?
<hamitron> :)
<popey> evening all
<hamitron> popey:
<hamitron> mind if I go mad with rail under the volcano?
<popey> fill yer boots
<hamitron> :D
<popey> you saw the rail i monkeyed with?
<popey> feel free to do whatever :)
<hamitron> erm, where?
<popey> i tweaked the ones near spawn
<hamitron> oh, yeh
<hamitron> I'm tweaking it again
<hamitron> ;)
<popey> ooo volcanos
<hamitron> want an underground station in the volcano
<popey> no more lava
<hamitron> health and safety ftl :/
<popey> i started heading out to the pyramid
<popey> underground sounds fun
<popey> http://popey.com/minecraft/gmap/?lat=0.534709&lng=0.403849&zoom=6
<popey> whose is that?
<popey> ali1234: ?
<kyle__> join #ubuntu
<kyle__> hi
<hamitron> the castle half done looks kinda cool
<Oli``> haha the space invaders setup is epic
<Azelphur> popey: I have a huge underground base on my server :D
<kyle__> is anyone available to help with a question?
<hamitron> ask away kyle__
<Oli``> Yeah 90% of my offline game is underground fortress.
<Azelphur> popey: it has 4 rooms, 20x20x6 each, along with a hallway and gate room and mob farm, dug it all out manually
<hamitron> :)
<popey> :)
<hamitron> or bugger off
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> oh well, back to important subjects like.... \o/
<hamitron> I was also thinking, I may have to build "hamitron's wall"
<hamitron> ;)
<hamitron> but that is later ofc
<popey> :)
<popey> bed time
<popey> nn
<hamitron> nn drunken popey
 * TheOpenSourcerer just noticed some dialogue on here, then decided it too is bedtime. nn.
<kyle__> i am just trying to run ubntu from usb only
<kyle__> i got further than i did before in that i could boot from the usb, but then hangs? beta 2 worked ok in live setting and even had unity working
<hamitron> better get to bed early... so I have the energy to survive a long day of wedding stuff
<hamitron> o/
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Michael Wood] Sony KDL-32W4000 xrandr lines - http://www.michaelwood.me.uk/wordpress/2011/04/29/sony-kdl-32w4000-xrandr-lines/
<dragonkeeper> :(  how do i turn unity off ?
<ball> Install Xubuntu?
<dragonkeeper> ahh thats better  ubuntu classic session
<knightwise> exit
<shauno> grub2 is driving me scatty :(
<MartijnVdS> shauno: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--I1v8K9zxw
<shauno> bingo :)
<shauno> seriously starting to think grub-mkimage is a practical joke
<shauno> the resulting image isn't capable of doing anything without any modules.  it can't load any modules because it doesn't understand the filesystems (without the relevant modules ..)
<shauno> and appears to be incapable of embedding modules.  there's a --memdisk option, but it's refusing to load modules from that either
<shauno> hm, well that's why.  (memdisk) is returning no such disk
<shauno> I can only assume that memdisk is also a module that it can't freaking load either
<shauno> ... /boot/grub/memdisk.mod
<shauno> seriously
<shauno> this is getting interesting.  it is booting.  if I sit and wait it out, I get the welcome sound on the livecd
<shauno> but the grub prompt stays on the screen the whole time
<HazRPG> you know, I never noticed how mounted partitions on boot startup showed up as being owned by "root" and group "plugdev" until I just got a "does not have write permissions" error in an application. What the deal with that?
<HazRPG> apparently /etc/fstab say: defaults,nls=utf8,umask=007,gid=46
<HazRPG> guessing that's why its not mounting up as me, but is there an advantage of it not booting as me?
<shauno> for which filesystem?
<HazRPG> /mount/win7
<HazRPG> aka my win7 install
<HazRPG> same for my storage mount point
<shauno> Are you in group plugdev?
<HazRPG> /mount/storage
<HazRPG> well that's just it, I assumed I was since I can add/delete files as normal
<HazRPG> however I have an application in wine that's saying /it/ can't read or write
<HazRPG> so I'm wondering if its just wine's permissions, or mine
<shauno> Difficult to look atm .. Still parked at a grub prompt :)
<shauno> I've an aweful feeling it's trying to use the wrong gpu :/
<HazRPG> bah, sod it sleep time
<HazRPG> also, being release date yesterday really annoyed me
<HazRPG> just updated someone to 10.10... and well, it took FOREVER to update T_T
<HazRPG> I did warn them it might be a bad idea to update today
<HazRPG> (referring to yesterday)
<shauno> Can't figure out what to put in video= which might stop it being stupid :(
<shauno> Although so far, it seems to be ignoring that anyway
<HazRPG> shauno: is this grub
<shauno> Kinda. atm it's radeondrmfb in the kernel
<shauno> it keeps removing efi vga in preference if the radeon driver. But because it doesn't handle gpu switching, that's the last output I get
<HazRPG> weird
<shauno> of course, radeonfb completely ignores the video= line, because it knows better (/facepalm)
<HazRPG> \o/
<HazRPG> lol
<HazRPG> still can't figure out whether it should be a good idea to change what my win7 or storage folder should be mounted as T_T
<HazRPG> or if I should just change the owner of the applications folder...
<Myrtti> yay, internet stream of the royal weddin
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: ...
<Myrtti> oy
<ging> internet is running slow for me today i hope it isnt royal wedding related load
<Myrtti> Even inlaws-to-be remembered me... :-X http://www.flickr.com/photos/myrtti/5661639862/
<Myrtti> cheeky old gits
<shauno> Told them they shouldn't have had the stag party in the NOC ...
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: Sorry, I don't like the concept of hereditary rulers too much :)
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: (even though I live in a monarchy..)
<Myrtti> anyway, all I'm really interested is Kates dress and how that huge load of money on flowers has been used in the church
<HazRPG> bah, I don't see why people are making such a fuss... woo, people get married all the time lol
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: exactly. Though most weddings don't cost Â£50m
<Myrtti> I think it's more about women making a fuss
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: True... but still, woo wedding? Hurray?
<Myrtti> as they always do
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: Just bought the Jonathan Coulton album from u1ms \o/
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: Ooo, you might be able to advise me :) - /etc/fstab... should I change my ntfs /mount/storage (used by both win/linux - although I haven't booted into windows for 4 months now \o/) from defaults,nls=utf8,umask=007,gid=46 0 0 to just defaults,nls=utf8?
<HazRPG> sorry change it to defaults,nls=utf8 0 0 even.
<shauno> That'll just make it root:root instead of root:plugdev
<HazRPG> yeah, but /home is mounted in the same fashion... surely if you set to defaults only, you can actually change the owner of points as and when needed
<HazRPG> as it stands I can't change the owner of anything
<HazRPG> (tried chmod and chown :/)
<shauno> Home us different because it's a native fs, so it supports ownerships
<shauno> for ntfs, whoever owns the mount, has ownership of everything
<HazRPG> ah, so is this a problem with it being ntfs more than it is being mounted incorrectly?
<HazRPG> so bit of both then
<HazRPG> well considering this system is only used by me, changing it gid to 1000 should be fine (setting it as group = me basically)
<HazRPG> right?
<HazRPG> any security things I should be paranoid about, if I did that?
<shauno> Probably ;)
<MartijnVdS> If it's only your system, no :)
<shauno> Sure. Any viruses in wine can infect you windows drive ;)
<HazRPG> shauno: I grep'ed /etc/passwd to make sure the group was 1000 ;D
<HazRPG> shauno: okay, that's definitely a big Con. then
<HazRPG> hmm
<shauno> so, I burnt the image to disk, to see if the options the cd uses were wildly different from what I'm using for grub-efi
<shauno> the answer is, no, I get no video output from the cd either
<shauno> so ow I have to go dig up a beta2 iso because the release is a huge regression
<HazRPG> in that case... hmm, wondering if it would just make more sense to make a mount point for the application inside /home/<user>/.wine/drive_c/Program\ Files\<application> then?
<HazRPG> shauno: we testing natty out?
<shauno> HazRPG: no, we're throwing it against the wall in disgust, and trying to see if we can find a debian iso that has the grub-loopback stuff
<HazRPG> shauno: in that case, wouldn't it be easier to install grub2 and then go from there?
<shauno> I have grub2
<shauno> what I don't have, is a kernel with a valid video mode
<HazRPG> I'm going on a limb, but I'm guessing you tried  to loopback the iso in grub then
<shauno> yes.  it boots, runs along quite happily until the radeon driver decides I was only kidding about setting video=efifb, and then I lose video
<HazRPG> interesting
<shauno> if I sit staring at a blank screen for long enough, I get the login sound from gnome, so it's even booting into X without figuring out which gpu to use
<HazRPG> why do I get the feeling the stuff on: http://wiki.debian.org/MacBookPro is about AFTER you installed it and not how to get it to install
<HazRPG> shauno: don't know if this will help, but sounds like what your trying to do but missing a few parameters: http://www.mjmwired.net/kernel/Documentation/fb/efifb.txt
<HazRPG> shauno: your typing in video=efifb, seems your missing a colon and something else after it
<shauno> what I have works until the radeon driver kicks in :/
<dwatkins> HazRPG: installing Ubuntu on a Macbook Pro is easy, it's Windows that has problems installing.
<HazRPG> dwatkins: Ubuntu maybe, he's trying to install debian though :P
<shauno> heh, not this one apparently :/  ubuntu 10.10 and 11.04 are both unbootable due to my sata bug :/
<dwatkins> hmmm, I wasn't aware there would be any difference in the bootloaders
<HazRPG> dwatkins: don't think it's the boot loader, I think it's the free ATI graphics driver stuff that's causing the problems
<shauno> and apparently unbootable from grub-efi due to $deity knows what
<dwatkins> I plan on putting Ubuntu on my MBP7.1, but only when I have a larger hard disk in it.
<HazRPG> shauno: oh yeah, forgot your lil fight to get ubuntu running on it too
<HazRPG> shauno: still think it might be worth trying to put :i20 or :i17 at the end of efifb
<HazRPG> shauno: I forget, what version you rolling with again? MBP 8.2?
<shauno> yup
<HazRPG> score, what a guess \o/
<HazRPG> (I knew it was 8.x)
<shauno> Hm. Adding :i17 gives me no output at all
<HazRPG> shauno: thought your was a 17"?
<HazRPG> 17" = :i20 (don't know why :S?)
<shauno> Nope, that's 8,3
<HazRPG> ah
<HazRPG> my google fu seems to lead me to believe it should just work - the only thing they're still debating over is bluetooth, but patches exist for them, they just haven't been applied to the kernel just yet
<HazRPG> shauno: hmmm... do you have a HDMI port or a VGA/DVI port on there? And can you test these ports?
<HazRPG> shauno: I have a feeling its just selecting the first one and using that first
<shauno> I just need to find a way to tell radeonfb to <snip> and die
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: Wow, did Jonathan Coulton do the original Portal song too!
<HazRPG> ?*
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: yes, he did.
<MartijnVdS> â« I'm making a note here: "Huge Success"
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: Just listening to "Best. Concert. Ever." and it came on and I was like ... wtf? ... lol
<HazRPG> shauno: I know its old, and its bug related... but maybe that's the file you need to tinker with? http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=433236
<lubotu3`> Debian bug 433236 in linux-2.6 "linux-image-2.6.21-2-powerpc: radeonfb broken with Apple Cinema Display connected via DVI" [Important,Fixed]
<HazRPG> or am I right in thinking that's what you are tinkering with
<HazRPG> (trying to help...)
<shauno> Sort of. Except yaboot doesn't exist
<HazRPG> shauno: really? This dude (2010) is talking about the same thing, and he set it to radeonfb:off http://us.generation-nt.com/answer/radeon-crashes-radeonfb-system-locked-help-200303531.html
<HazRPG> or do something similar in grub's conf?
<HazRPG> *shrug*
<shauno> yarly. Yaboot is for openfirmware/ppc
<HazRPG> ah
<AlanBell> morning all
<shauno> radeon:off and radeondrmfb:off both make no difference :(
<HazRPG> bah
<shauno> fb: conflicting fb hw usage radeondrmfb vs EFI VGA - removing generic driver
<shauno> That's the last line I get
<TheOpenSourcerer> morning earthlings.
<dwatkins> greetings fellow biped
<hoover> mornin
 * TheOpenSourcerer wonders why I have a slight headache today
 * gordonjcp wonders why he has no headache today
<madfish> MORNING ALL -> TheOpenSourcerer :D
<madfish> how's the headache now?
<TheOpenSourcerer> morning - still rather tender.
<TheOpenSourcerer> I have just kicked off the upgrade to my son's PC - just over 1GB of downloads required!
<madfish> with a surname like Lord, why aren't you at the wedding?
<TheOpenSourcerer> I turned it down
<madfish> quite right
<HazRPG> shauno: ... why did that work :S?
<HazRPG> shauno: I changed it from root:plugdev (umount'ed and then mount'ed it again manually), and it was the root:root, when I ran the application - its having no more issues! This makes no sense to me :S
<shauno> Did you change the umask?
<MartijnVdS> NO U MASK
<AlanBell> Y U NO MASK?
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: I'm hot enough without one.
<TheOpenSourcerer> What do you call the technique that creates those twitter/facebook type badges that slide up and down a web page as you scroll?
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: HazRPG might know. He's a web man
<HazRPG> shauno: I haven't changed anything, as far as I'm aware
<HazRPG> shauno: I ran "sudo mount /dev/sdc1 /media/win7 -t ntfs" on it
<HazRPG> I assumed that would just remount it the same way as what was in fstab (from the way I understood it from the man pages)
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: can you give an example of a page that does it?
<shauno> So you did change a lot :)
<HazRPG> TheOpenSourcerer: badge thing?
<TheOpenSourcerer> MartijnVdS: Not off the top of my head.
<shauno> That'd maintain defaults but not umask= or gid=
<gerbilschool> Omg ubuntu articles do it
<TheOpenSourcerer> It's typically a vertical-text badge on the side of a web page that stays in the same place as you scroll the page up and down.
<HazRPG> TheOpenSourcerer: oh you mean like the fixed stuff on the screen?
<shauno> position:fixed?
<TheOpenSourcerer> yeah, kind of.
<TheOpenSourcerer> more like static
<HazRPG> TheOpenSourcerer: I say fixed, but its more they move as the page does so it /looks/ like it isn't moving
 * HazRPG rattles brain for what they're called
<MartijnVdS> fixed to the viewport, not the page :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Yes. I'm trying to find some tutorial but I don't know what they are called. I tried sliding badges but that was useless
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: bingo ;D
<HazRPG> badges to me would mean "signature" but are a bit more dynamic then that
<HazRPG> I wouldn't call those badges
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: I'd look for "fixed" in the CSS manual :)
<MartijnVdS> it won'
<MartijnVdS> it won't slide-after-scroll, but _during_ that way
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: I think he's more after a javascript trick then a css one
<HazRPG> but I could be looking at it wrong
<HazRPG> I don't know, "floating javascript box" or something maybe?
<HazRPG> TheOpenSourcerer: does this look about right? http://jqueryfordesigners.com/fixed-floating-elements/
<shauno> it's just position:fixed in css
<shauno> position:fixed;top:0;right:0;  should stuff something in the top-right corner and keep it there
<shauno> fixed is relative to the window, absolute is relative to the document
<HazRPG> shauno: that sort of thing requires that you make sure everything else is referenced properly, otherwise you can have some serious problems with setting stuff fixed
<TheOpenSourcerer> HazRPG: Thanks, that's along the right lines yes.
<HazRPG> e.g. set something fixed, everything else might bump up from where it was previous to the new gap caused
 * czajkowski prods TheOpenSourcerer 
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: no, fixed elements aren't part of flow
<HazRPG> TheOpenSourcerer: Just thought a jQuery solution would be nicer and easier to maintain :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> morning czajkowski
<shauno> javascript gives you that strange effect where things move while the page is scrolling, and catchup
<MartijnVdS> shauno: yes, or they move on after you stop scrolling
<HazRPG> shauno: yeah, I thought that was what he was after (twitter/facebook was examples)
<czajkowski> TheOpenSourcerer: 'ows the head
<TheOpenSourcerer> improving slowlt
<TheOpenSourcerer> slowly
<shauno> http://demo.superdit.com/css/fixed_absolute_position/  that's a good example of the difference
<TheOpenSourcerer> This is the kind of thing. (Mootools is better for this as it will be on Joomla! and mootools is already loaded. http://davidwalsh.name/dw-content/scrolling-sidebar.php
<MartijnVdS> I don't like that it scrolls after you scroll
<MartijnVdS> instead of just staying in place
<shauno> yeah, that's what I meant by catchup.  it always lags behind window events
<HazRPG> shauno: ah, in that case you'd have a javascript to change the css after you get to a certain point :)
<HazRPG> you'd change it from absolute to fixed
<shauno> so why not used fixed in the first place :o)
<HazRPG> which is why the tutorial I link to works best if you watch the video
<HazRPG> shauno: *points at example of the shopping cart of apple site*
<HazRPG> the cart is placed as natural flow on the website, but when you scroll down it gets changed to fixed so that you can always see how much your total is as your going along
<HazRPG> *points here: http://jqueryfordesigners.com/video.php?f=fixedfloat.flv *
<madfish> sorry, very off topic but a great tweet "Prince Harry has taken his inappropriate fancy dress reputation a step further by coming as Colonel Gaddafi"
<shauno> I just don't see why you need to hack something together in javascript when it exists already in the standard
<ali1234> it's html
<shauno> http://shaun.oneil.me.uk/test/  (and /test/style.css).  fixed scroll. one line of css. zero lag.
<ali1234> there is no standard
<shauno> I just find it silly that you can do it properly, quicker than the 'web developers' can figure out what js library to use this week
<ali1234> your example doesn't work btw
<shauno> works in every browser I've got :/
<HazRPG> its fixed here too
<HazRPG> however, fail dude, your stuck with "Some Lipsum" perma attached to the right hand side
<Psychobudgie> madfish, hahahah
<shauno> I thought that's what he's actually trying to do?
<shauno> or do people actually want the js lag
<HazRPG> shauno: you can do js without lag :/
<HazRPG> guessing no one watched the video I linked :/
<HazRPG> the reason there's lag is because js tries to constantly work it out...
<shauno> right.  because the window events are slower than the renderer
<ali1234> ha, no
<ali1234> html renderers are damn slow
<popey> Morning all
<HazRPG> if you just get the reference code straight out of the browser, and then assign it to a constant, ... you can then flip it from "absolute" to "fixed"
<ali1234> yes
<ali1234> btw when  he says in the video it doesn't work in ie6
<ali1234> it's only partly true
<ali1234> it actually doesn't work in ie 7 or 8 and probably 9 or 10 either
<HazRPG> so lets say what you want fixed isn't until say half way on a regular 17" screen... on a widescreen, this won't show at all until they scroll... if you had this fixed all the time... this would never show at all... so this trick is so when you stroll down... and once that panel/whatever hits the top of the browser, its changed to fixed
<madfish> morning popey - how's the head?
<shauno> I'm apparently completely missing what you're actually trying to do
<shauno> because that sounds like some proper twisted 1998 style dhtml trash :)
<HazRPG> shauno: not everyone has a 1280x1024 screen like me xD
<HazRPG> (or even 2 of them!)
<ali1234> shauno: watch the videooooooooooooo
<HazRPG> shauno: exactly!
<HazRPG> shauno: http://jqueryfordesigners.com/video.php?f=fixedfloat.flv
<ali1234> shauno: it uses position:fixed exactly like your demo
<HazRPG> yeah but the whole right hand side of the screen is being used for nothing other than "Some Lipsum" on your demo dude lol
<jacobw> good morning
<HazRPG> shauno: you've used apple store? What happens to the cart as you scroll? Does that lag? (should hope not cos it gets flipped from absolute to fixed)
<popey> madfish: not bad, didnt drink much tbh
<Pendulum> popey: good party?
<popey> Yes, good fun
<madfish> popey: the other alans drank for you ;)
<popey> heh, yes
<HazRPG> shauno: all the js is doing, is checking to see where the current scrollbar is... if the scrollbar is has been moved beyond a set number, then the css gets changed to fixed, however, if the scrollbar is less then a set number you could just have it move with the page as normal in absolute.
<jacobw> load balancing betweeen the alans :p
<shauno> HazRPG: I don't see anywhere where he asked for that
<HazRPG> shauno: value of top
<HazRPG> top is the scrollbar number
<HazRPG> co-ords of y
<ali1234> lol
<ali1234> he does a regexp on the string to prevent 'auto' from returning NaN
<ali1234> instead of just catching the NaN and converting that to integer zero
<HazRPG> ali1234: he does :)
<ali1234> web designers
<HazRPG> bah I'm a developer not a designer, I hate anything that isn't php
<wintellect> HazRPG++
<HazRPG> I can do html/css... but when js is involved, I'd avoid it like the plague unless I REALLY must
 * wintellect agrees with HazRPG 
<HazRPG> plus, I can draw/design for the life of me :/
<HazRPG> give me a sheet to work from, and I'm fine
<HazRPG> developer != designer, and it really annoys me that people think it's the same thing
<jacobw> designers muck everything up :)
<HazRPG> (previous job description was web designer... tried to get another job as a php programmer, and got rejected because they weren't looking for a designer despite my previous job had nothing to do with designing at all)
<HazRPG> they literally based it on the fact that my official position was "designer"
<HazRPG> and I didn't write it on my CV as designer, they actually rang them up and asked... and they said "oh well he did this and that and blah... oh his job title? Web designer..."
<HazRPG> I facepalm'ed when I found out T_T
<jacobw> argh :(
<HazRPG> indeed, was really frustrating
<HazRPG> didn't help that it was a "print/design" company I worked for
<wintellect> Anyone that does *anything* on a website is called a "web designer"
<HazRPG> the reason they hired me was cos they wanted to cash in on web development, not just designing the layouts
<HazRPG> wintellect: sadly :/
<HazRPG> bah, just realised I typed "I can draw" instead of "I can't"
<HazRPG> apparently I can't type either :P
<wintellect> HazRPG: are you sure you should be working with computers?  :P
<HazRPG> wintellect: sometimes wonder :P
<HazRPG> my problem is my mind thinks faster than my hands can type it - I sometimes miss words altogether, that can be fun to try and work out sometimes :P
<wintellect> I do that all the time
<wintellect> or type ":wq" in notepad in the office
<wintellect> or Dreamweaver
<HazRPG> xD
<HazRPG> I find trying to hit the tab key inside of a browser, doesn't always do the effect you were after xD
<wintellect> rofl
<HazRPG> "type type type type type tab type type type ... where'd my cursor go!?"
<HazRPG> looks like its going to be another all night/dayer
<HazRPG> heading to the shop for some supplies, bbl
<wintellect> natty upgrades have begun - YAY!
<oimon> wintellect: what's been updated?
<HazRPG> \o
<HazRPG> still a bit sceptical over natty
<oimon> i've been beta testing, now waiting for everyone to do the real testing before my prod machines get it!
<wintellect> oimon: the whole OS
<wintellect> 2hrs 30mins left
<HazRPG> wintellect: I'd have selected a different server to grab off - unless that's the normal amount of time it would take you to download a CD
<HazRPG> wintellect: I tried to update someone's machine up to 10.10 last night/this morning... and it took forever, presumably because everyone's been updating their machines
<popey> get it from the german mirror
<popey> thats much quicker
<popey> http://de.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-releases/
<DJones> I've just started a machine here and it took 12 minutes to download the update using one of the uk servers but not the default one
<HazRPG> DJones: that's my point :) - don't use the default, cos there will be LOTS of people using the default
<oimon> germans don't like natty?
<HazRPG> oimon: germans probably have faster overall internets ;D
<DJones> HazRPG: Very true, most people wouldn't think to change from the default servers (casual users might not even realise you change thinking its like windows & uses a central point)
<ali1234> windows doesn't use a central point
<shauno> I'd assume they use akamai, if they've got any sense
<popey> i suspect the UK server is flooded because AIUI it's the default for all countries that don't have their own default server
<popey> plus the UK server isn't just one server
<popey> so USA points to the UK server I think
<popey> oo, usa has lots of servers now
<popey> still all in the uk DC by the look of it
<jacobw> i'm downloading from the university of kent mirror at ~300KB/s
<HazRPG> jacobw: I just rely on the auto ping ratio - I run the test 3 times and whichever came up on top out of those 3 times... I select and pick that one
<HazRPG> auto select* even
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<jacobw> i'd forgotten about auto select, how do you do it again/
<jacobw> hi brobostigon, how do?
<brobostigon> goodmorning jacobw ad HazRPG :)
<brobostigon> jacobw: not so, hot, not feeling very well.
<HazRPG> brobostigon: morning dude :)
<brobostigon> :)
<HazRPG> jacobw: system -> admin -> update manager -> settings (button) -> Ubuntu Software (tab), on the "Download from:" section pick "other" then pick "Select Best Server" button
<HazRPG> personally I think that's too many clicks for that, and it would be better coded to automatically do it... but meh lol
<wintellect> 52mins left of upgrade...
<popey> wintellect: has it started upgrading or is it just downloading?
<phonex01> Hello , Salam Alykom people
<wintellect> popey: upgrading. 30mins left now
<jacobw> HazRPG: i thought you could do it with apt?
<jacobw> HazRPG: something like apt-autoselect-mirror
<jacobw> i don't trust gui package management :|
<jacobw> *still
<popey> loon
<popey> you know the gui uses dpkg/apt underneath?
<jacobw> yes :(
<ali1234> is david gerard on slashdot the real david gerard or just a troll pretending to be him?
<MartijnVdS> yes
<DJones> Thats not bad, from starting to download & upgrade to complete & using Natty, just over 1 hour
<brobostigon> http://static.arstechnica.com/pbreview/twitter.jpg theplaybooks twitter client, :)
<popey> ali1234: where?
 * brobostigon points popey atthe above picturelink.
<ali1234> popey: http://slashdot.org/~David+Gerard
<ali1234> low 5 digit UID says it's probably him
<popey> yeah
<popey> almost certainly
<wintellect> cleaning up...
<popey> haha brobostigon
<brobostigon> :)
<wintellect> Restarting... brb, I hope
<oimon> "Ars reviews RIM's PlayBook" -how many double-entendres can you get in a sentence?
<richard> richard
<Guest27972> hi do you have a bin as i need to paste something
<brobostigon> !pastebin
<lubotu3`> For posting multi-line texts into the channel, please use http://paste.ubuntu.com | To post !screenshots use http://imagebin.org/?page=add | !pastebinit to paste directly from command line | Make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the channel topic.
<brobostigon> !info pastebinit
<lubotu3`> pastebinit (source: pastebinit): command-line pastebin client. In component universe, is optional. Version 1.1-2 (maverick), package size 22 kB, installed size 404 kB
<brobostigon> !info pastebinit natty
<lubotu3`> pastebinit (source: pastebinit): command-line pastebin client. In component universe, is optional. Version 1.2-2 (natty), package size 30 kB, installed size 480 kB
<Guest27972> Ok i ran the upgrade from 10.10 and this is came up, and this is happening since yesterday the release has been released  http://paste.ubuntu.com/600693/
<Guest27972> and data hop is http://www.datahop.net/  it seem that they have a problem with there server
<wintellect> back
<wintellect> seems my setup wont run Unity :(
<MartijnVdS> wintellect: Matrox graphics? :)
<wintellect> I've enabled the experimental 3D driver, but still nothing
<wintellect> MartijnVdS: No, nVidia
<wintellect> Why does the nvidia binary blob not show up in the list of drivers?!
<MartijnVdS> too old?
<popey> which card wintellect ?
<Guest27972> Anyone know why this is happening when i do the upgrade  http://paste.ubuntu.com/600693/
<popey> Guest27972: go to software sources and choose a different mirror?
<Guest27972> ok let me try
<wintellect> popey: GeForce4 MX 440 AGP
<wintellect> "Proprietary drivers for devices (restricted)" is enabled in Software Sources in the Ubuntu Software Centre
<MartijnVdS> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DemystifyingUnityGraphicsHardwareRequirements
<wintellect> MartijnVdS: looking
<MartijnVdS> wintellect: run /usr/lib/nux/unity_support_test -p
<wintellect> MartijnVdS: Unity supported:          no
<wintellect> :'(
<MartijnVdS> wintellect: it should also tell you why
<MartijnVdS> wintellect: can you pastebin the output?
<wintellect> sure...
<wintellect> MartijnVdS: http://pastebin.com/CvrEMz4a
<MartijnVdS> wintellect: seems like your GPU doesn't support OpenGL 1.4 features required by unity
<MartijnVdS> wintellect: time for a new graphics card ;)
 * wintellect cries like a baby
<shauno> I used to have a 440mx.  nifty card for the price, but it's showing it's age :(
<Guest27972> the http://ubuntu.dahop.net/ubuntu mirror has a problem so do not use it to run your upgrade
<wintellect> shauno: so it seems
<shauno> I think that was 2003, 2004?
<shauno> nice lil workhorse tho.  mine would do dual-head and tv-out at the same time.  X didn't like that much :)
<popey> Guest27972: have you chosen a different mirror?
<ali1234> i still use a 440MX in mythtv
<ali1234> it uses about 5 watts where as anything modern uses about 50 watts
<ali1234> for no noticable improvement i might add
<wintellect> lunchtime, bbs
<wintellect> thanks for the help MartijnVdS
<richard_> no matter what mirror i choose when i launch the upgrade it say that it cannot download the release
<richard_> so i am trying to upgrade from a usb, hoping it will do the upgrade
<zleap> hello
<zleap> just loaded up 11.04 and the interface looks more like gnome than unit, as in no side bar
<zleap> hi
<moreati>  zleap did you see a message box that said Ubuntu is falling back to 'Classic' or 'Failsafe'?
<ali1234> is there a metabug for all programs that look bad with a forced resize gripper?
<cbx333> hey all
<cbx333> can't believe how slow the repos are still
<cbx333> :)
<cbx333> 50bK/s
<cbx333> 50kB/s - sorry
<DJones> cbx333: Have you tried changing servers? The main one was heavily overloaded, but picking a different one this morning did a full update in an hour
<cbx333> oooh
<cbx333> I was using gb
<cbx333> got any better ideas?
<DJones> I just used one of the gb/uk mirrors, can't remember which one specifically
<cbx333> ok
<brobostigon> cbx333: i am on german one right now, that was pretty good earlier.
<cbx333> ahh
<cbx333> ok cool
<cbx333> funny i just had one file go at 400K
<cbx333> was a good few Mb
<cbx333> then the new was dead slow again
<cbx333> :)
<cbx333> I will think of moving in a second
<DJones> Just loI think I may have used mirror.ox.ac.uk
<cbx333> thanks guys
<cbx333> bbiab
<brobostigon> DJones: i shall to try that repo.
<brobostigon> have to*
<gordonjcp> have the servers cooled down yet?
<Guest76976> mine have in the uk
<gordonjcp> righto
<gordonjcp> here goes, rebooting into Ubuntu
<popey> gordonjcp: switch to the german mirror before you do
<popey> before you upgrade that is
<brobostigon> is the german mirror special? i happen to use it, it is ipv6enabled.
<gordonjcp> popey: okay, why's that?
<popey> faster
<popey> the uk ones is swamped
<popey> i use de.archive.ubuntu.com at the moment
<brobostigon> i have used it for a while.
<gordonjcp> really, I should wipe this and do a clean install
<gordonjcp> hm, only 36M to get?
<brobostigon> gordonjcp: change the source entries with software sources app, it will change it for you, ust tell it which youwant to use.
<gordonjcp> brobostigon: I can't find the software sources app
<gordonjcp> brobostigon: I can't really find much in Ubuntu these days
<brobostigon> gordonjcp: do you know how to chnage sources.list manually, and "sudo apt-get update" ?
<gordonjcp> brobostigon: yeah, that's what I'm doing
<brobostigon> :)
<gordonjcp> I'm never going to use 11.04 as a desktop
<moreati> gordonjcp: Edit -> Software Sources in Ubuntu Software Centre
<gordonjcp> but I may have to put up with it on servers
<gordonjcp> moreati: I can't really find the Ubuntu Software Centre either
<gordonjcp> I'll switch out of Unity once this update finishes
<moreati> gordonjcp: press the Windows key (left od Space), type 'Software Centre' that should find it
<gordonjcp> tbh I can't really get much of an idea how the finished version looks since I've heavily modified everything in the beta release
<gordonjcp> moreati: I don't have a Windows key
<moreati> gordonjcp: that is a _very_ old keyboard (or Mac, in which case it's the Cmd key)
<gordonjcp> moreati: in any case, I just edited /etc/apt/sources.list and updated that way
<gordonjcp> moreati: IBM Model M keyboard
<gordonjcp> ugh
<gordonjcp> it's enabled compiz again
<ali1234> finished version is virtually identical to beta
<ali1234> beta 2 that is
<ali1234> in fact i haven't seen any updates since installing that
<gordonjcp> brb, reboot
<gordonjcp> right, that's better
<cbx333> hey popey
<cbx333> which german mirror are you guys using?
<popey> 15:28:33 < popey> i use de.archive.ubuntu.com at the moment
<cbx333> hmmm
 * cbx333 is upgrading a 10.04 box
<cbx333> do i gotta go to 10.10 first?
<Laney> deb http://chicken.local:3142/ubuntu natty main universe is holding up well :-)
<popey> you can install over the top
<popey> heh Laney
<cbx333> that server isn't in my list of mirrors
<popey> indeed, ubuntuserver.local is doing well here
<popey> cbx333: observe the smiley
<Laney> it's an apt cache i'm running on my other machine
<cbx333> popey, i hate to sound late - can i got to 11.04 from the "update manager"?
<Laney> update-manager cried about using it though :'(
<popey> not from 10.04, no
<cbx333> ahh
<popey> you would need to go 10.04 -> 10.10 if using update manager
<cbx333> ok
<cbx333> do you have the commands handy to safely  go straight to 11.04 ?
<cbx333> from cli?
<popey> i would not advocate doing that
<cbx333> ok
<cbx333> you suggest downloading iso and installing over the top did you say?
<cbx333> i wasn't clear what your suggested method was
<exobuzz> if you are confident with ubuntu/debian you can adjust  your apt sources to natty and dist-upgrade, but you need to be comfortable in case anything doesnt go smoothly
 * cbx333 is semi-comfortable :)
<cbx333> any one else here gone down that route before?
<cbx333> this is a fairly fresh box
<exobuzz> if you have a backup, then you can risk it anyway, and if it goes tits up, do a reinstall and restore your personal stuff from the backup
<cbx333> well it's not gonna screw the fs is it
<exobuzz> i rarely skip a version, as im always a bit bleeding edge. when i went from linux mint to ubuntu, i did a reinstall
<cbx333> i could just boot a live cd to pull the data out
<brobostigon> i upgraded directly from debian stable, through to unstable/sid once.
<popey> whats the hurry cbx333 ?
<exobuzz> always have backups
 * cbx333 has a day off today popey :)
<popey> whilst you're talking you could be upgrading to 10.10
 * cbx333 clicks the button
<cbx333> :p
<cbx333> need to change mirror first - it's not even downloading the release notes now
<cbx333> :)
<exobuzz> i had better update the joggler natty image
<exobuzz> ot: interesting link on the bbc about 8 bit computing (building your own 8 bit puter) http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-13201254
<exobuzz> s/link/article and video/
<cbx333> wow
<cbx333> de servers are fast
<brobostigon> :)
<Neoti> Any reported problems in upgrading to 11.04 via update manager then ? im about to do it ?
<cbx333> I'll be doing it in about 40 minutes
<cbx333> when the 10.04 to 10.10
<cbx333> finished
<cbx333> and i stop pressing the enter button too early
<Neoti> Pre mature enter button!! lol
<Darael> Neoti: It took me nearly 24 hours, but unless you have a btrfs root partition (which is not the default) that shouln't affect you.
<Neoti> lol
<Darael> Neoti: Other than abysmal speed of dpkg on btrfs (a known issue from Maverick) I've had no issues at all.  Which is good.  Obviously.
<Neoti> coolio... well i will update it soon .....
<Neoti> im not a fan of unity tho.... makes it look like an apple mac ... and i dont like Apple ....
<cbx333> quick poll
<cbx333> are most people using unity here or gnome 3?
<brobostigon> Neoti: have you tried gnome3 yet?
<brobostigon> cbx333: gome3.
<brobostigon> cbx333: gnome3.
<Neoti> !gnome3
<lubotu3`> Gnome 3 is not currently supported on Ubuntu. A PPA for natty is available at https://launchpad.net/~gnome3-team/+archive/gnome3 but these packages are EXPERIMENTAL and UNSTABLE, will break Unity and possibly other parts of your system, and safe downgrading is not possible.
<cbx333> oh
<cbx333> :(
 * cbx333 thinks I will stick with maverick for a while then
<cbx333> first time I've ever done that
<jacobw> I heard about a utility to switch between monitor configuration X and monitor configuration Y in X(.org) with a single click, does anyone know what it's called? I heard about it either on the Ubuntu UK podcast or on the Linux Outlaws podcast..
<brobostigon> cbx333: i moved back to ubuntu from debian sid, as the gnome3 packages in that ppa, where more uptodate than those ineither debian unstable and experimental.
<cbx333> it  is a shame...i usually look forward to an upgrade
<cbx333> this time i'm more than a little scared
<brobostigon> theupgrade went fine here, i just had to replaceunity after a few days, with gnome-shell, which i had been using for months before that point, toherwise i am very happy.
<cbx333> right
<brobostigon> cbx333: andi upgraded on the last alpha.
<cbx333> so is ubuntu likely to get gnome 3 ever?
<moreati> cbx333: not officially, unless Unity and Gnome 3 eventually merge (50:50 odds IMO)
<cbx333> :(
<jacobw> X keeps crashing on my dual monitor set up, it appears to happen while Firefox is rendering a page :s
<cbx333> in 11.04?
<jacobw> I don't think they'll merge anytime soon.
<brobostigon> bye,e everyone, have a good evening.
<Laney> i'm sure it will get some kind of gnome 3
<Laney> https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-o-gtk3-gnome3
<Neoti> erm.... empathy can not resolve messenger.hotmail.com ... i have checked on another server in a datacenter and it too can not resolve messenger.hotmail.com ....
<Neoti> so i can not use MSN chat at the moment... any idea
<DJones> Neoti: Try pidgin, I've got MSN chat working on that with natty
<Neoti> this is in 10.10 ... it worked fine up untill 3 days ago ...
<Neoti> and the problem is that messenger.hotmail.com can not be found ...
<DJones> Might be worth trying another client just to make sure though
<Neoti> i just looged in to msn web version and works fine...
<ukstevef> switch your DNS to opendns.com works fine for me
<Neoti> i did use to use opendns... i might have to swap back to them ....
<ukstevef> i use opendns at home and I love the filtering and phish protection
<Neoti> right so i changed to open DNS... and refreshed my IP etc and did a MTR for messenger and no resolves ...so i restarted the computer and it now resolves ... STRANGO!!!! VERY STRANGE!!!!!!!
<hamitron> evening
<hamitron> :)
<popey> hullo
<MartijnVdS> \o
<penguin42> someone throw some more coal on the mirror
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: mirrors don't work if you put coal on them...
<penguin42> they don't?!
<penguin42> oh god, no wonder this download is taking so long - libqt4-dbg is 103MB
<MartijnVdS> yay c++
<exobuzz> so natty users, who's on the classic desktop and who's on unity?
<MartijnVdS> xfce, because both suck :)
<popey> I'm on 10.04 :)
<popey> also, I am on Unity 2d on one machine
<hamitron> 10.04 lazyness ftw :)
<Laney> xmonad + metacity :-)
<exobuzz> heh
<DJones> exobuzz: Unity here
<TheOpenSourcerer> My son's PC is not playing nicely after doing the upgrade. Can log in on any of 4 user accounts, the desktop wallpaper loads but no menus, launcher, nothing... Not a happy bunny. I tried emptying my home folder completely. Still borked.
<gord> TheOpenSourcerer, with classic session too?
<TheOpenSourcerer> I do not get offered a choice.
<ali1234> i'm using unity for 1 month for a test
<ali1234> been on it for a week now
<ali1234> so far i can't wait to switch to classic
<hamitron> ali1234: how you finding it?
<hamitron> :/
<ali1234> hamitron: it's awful in every way
<ali1234> extremely buggy
<ali1234> and just plain bad to use
<ali1234> i wouldn't mind the bugs if the design behind it was an improvement over classic
<hamitron> how is memory use?
<ali1234> pretty terrible
<ali1234> no worse than classic gnome though
<ali1234> firefox 4 uses more ram than 3 did
<hamitron> I was hoping it may be better
<hamitron> :D
<hamitron> seriously?
<hamitron> :-o
<ali1234> yes seriously
<hamitron> I've only used ff4 on windows
<ali1234> i've only got 4 tabs open and its using 400mb/1gig virtual
<hamitron> not for heavy use
<ali1234> ff3 would use that much ram when i had 6 windows open with 10 tabs each
<hamitron> omg
<popey> TheOpenSourcerer: the choice is at the logon screen
<ali1234> unfortunately opening more than one of any window is impractical on unity
<TheOpenSourcerer> popey: It isn't there on my son's PC.
<popey> what isnt?
<TheOpenSourcerer> The choice of UI
<DJones> I'm finding the opposite, very good to use, no bugs, memory use quite low with 6 apps running, one of which is devede converting a video file
<popey> TheOpenSourcerer: sudo apt-get install ubuntu-desktop^
<popey> that fixes _everything_ :D
<TheOpenSourcerer> lol
<popey> serious suggestion :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> I may have another attack at it tomorrow.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Can't be arsed right now.
<popey> bah
<popey> its one line
<TheOpenSourcerer> His PC is turned off and in another part of the house.
<hamitron> ff4 on windows 7 with 4 tabs is using 145Mb memory here
<Psychobudgie> ff4 is currently using 225mb with 2 tabs open here
<Psychobudgie> I don't think it shows anything other than the two sites I have open are hitting ff with more crap than the 4 you have open
<hamitron> that could be the case
<hamitron> just opened www.yahoo.com www.msn.com www.linux.com and www.ubuntu.com
<ali1234> i closed 3 of the tabs
<ali1234> now i only have google home page open
<ali1234> still using 324mb
<ali1234> but falling slowly
<hamitron> could both try www.google.com on a fresh start?
<hamitron> ;)
<Psychobudgie> firefox will have stuff cached in memory
<Psychobudgie> best test is a restart
<ali1234> 669mb virt, 147mb res
<hamitron> 50.6Mb used on fresh start with google.com
<ali1234> slowly rising
<ali1234> i've only got google open, nothing else
<hamitron> www.google.com?
<Psychobudgie> you using any addons or plugins
<ali1234> www.google.co.uk
<hamitron> 51Mb on that
<ali1234> ha
<ali1234> i disabled adblock plus now firefox uses 81mb
<ali1234> 89mb
<Psychobudgie> heheh
<hamitron> mine is just vanilla
<hamitron> so not ff's fault
<hamitron> :)
<Psychobudgie> add any other plugins or addons that load at start up
<Psychobudgie> there is the disparity
<ali1234> i don't use any others
<Psychobudgie> flash?
<Psychobudgie> they'll be loaded
<ali1234> flash is a plugin not an extension
<ali1234> it runs in a separate process
<ali1234> and they don't load until you visit a page that uses them
<Psychobudgie> oh, and themes
<hamitron> do people actually use non-default themes? ;)
<MartijnVdS> hamitron: you'd be surprised at what people do with their machines :|
<ali1234> not in firefox
<Psychobudgie> global menu bar integration will be running if you use unity
<hamitron> MartijnVdS: I guess so :) the OS and apps I like to be just "there"
<Psychobudgie> as will ubuntu firefox modifications
<MartijnVdS> hamitron: People look at me weird when I say I have "only" 10 apps installed on my phone (and most of those are upgrades of built-in apps)
<Psychobudgie> the unity addon probably uses about a gb ;)
<hamitron> on the plus side, I never do a full ubuntu install anyway \o/
<hamitron> or ubuntu-desktop should I say
<hamitron> ;/
<Venko> Thanks to those seeding the new Ubuntu iso. 2MB/s download :D
<hamitron> :-o
<hamitron> I am really finding the lack of games on linux depressing now :/
<Psychobudgie> buy a console
<hamitron> what console?
<hamitron> :/
<ali1234> wiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii
<hamitron> wiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii is for babys
<Psychobudgie> nooooooooooo
<hamitron> xbox is for MS fanbois
<Psychobudgie> I have a PS3 and an 360 here
<hamitron> PS3 is for Emo Linux Users
<Psychobudgie> though the 360 doesn't get a lot of love these days
<Venko> PS3 is for CC thieves
<hamitron> Venko: and victoms ;)
<popey> buy a dreamcast
<Venko> Sony products in general are for wanabe victims though
<hamitron> don't dreamcast disks spin the "wrong" way?
<ali1234> no lol
<popey> oh dear not that classic
<popey> people said that about the wii too
<Psychobudgie> lol
<ali1234> and gamecube
<popey> sorry, yes gamecube
<hamitron> tbh, I have not liked nintendo consoles since the SNES
<ali1234> lolwat
<ahayzen> Hi upgrading from 10.10 to 11.04 via LiveCD .. all going well..but now it has stopped at 'Restoring Previously Installed Packages' ... there is no activity on the HDD or CD ..but the network like does seem to be active .. is this an issue or do i just have to wait???
<ali1234> snes was clearly amazing
<hamitron> I just haven't, dunno why
<ali1234> megadrive sucked
<popey> ahayzen: yes, wait
<ahayzen> how long?
<popey> depends how many packages need rebuilding
<ahayzen> its been like 1/2 an hour :'(
<popey> :(
<ahayzen> tht could be loads!
<Psychobudgie> ahayzen, on the window on screen click on the bottom of the window where the message is and it should expand to show a terminal window
<ahayzen> so is it updating all the packages to the natty ones
<Psychobudgie> might tell you a bit more
<popey> ahayzen: not quite
<DJones> popey: Is that because its downloading any extra packages that have been installed that weren't on the cd
<popey> it takes old packages and rebuilds them
<popey> kinda DJones
<popey> it makes debs out of stuff it cant find in the repo
<ahayzen> yh it says ...stuff from kernel about DVI unplug ... and 'Unbalanced action groups, expect badness' ....
<popey> and reinstalls them after the base install
<Psychobudgie> ahayzen, if you asked it to download anything it needed be prepared for a wait as the repos are getting battered. Took mine 2 hours to grab everything last night
<ahayzen> seems this came up after Chrooting into /target/..
<ahayzen> WARNING:root:can't add ant (and about 20 others)...
 * popey goes to put kids in bath
<ahayzen> i didn't tick the box saying download updates..
<popey> open a terminal and run top ?
<popey> see what it's doing
<Psychobudgie> ahayzen, did you have any unofficial sources in your repos before starting the upgrade?
<ahayzen> hmmm .. will i have to go Ctrl+Alt+F1 because i just click 'install' rather than try first.. so no app menu..
<ahayzen> i had loads of PPAs
<ahayzen> and like Oracle VB
<ahayzen> i think the servers are just overloaded at the moment? when i tried last night i was getting around 50KB/s download...so i'll wait and see
<Venko> I don't suppose anyone knows of any guides to comp sci dissertation writing? I know what I want to write and such but I'm endlessly confused about structure and what form it should be in >.<
<hamitron> make it flow with the work you've done
<MartijnVdS> Venko: ask an English Literature major :P
<ahayzen> ok ... i'm running top..
<Venko> Everyone is talking about word counts and I have pretty much nothing typed out.
<ahayzen> http and ubiquity are at the top most of the time..
<hamitron> my last report was more like a book, because it had testing and seperate sections :/ not like a lot of the reports you read
<Venko> I guess I should just start spawning massive walls of text and then think about it again once I have 15k words to look at
<hamitron> walls of text are bad
<hamitron> pictures = better
<hamitron> :)
<MartijnVdS> also, paragraphs
<Psychobudgie> ahayzen, The last time I had issues with ubuntu upgrades was when I had lots of unofficial sources in my repos. I removed them and the upgrade wizzed through
<MartijnVdS> use them :)
<MartijnVdS> also, use LaTeX for extra points
<Venko> When I'm writing out technology rationale and covering the aims/objectives should I write them in past tense or write them in relation to the finished project? I'm currently going along the lines of building upon stuff. So e.g. objective Y: So X because Y thus Q+T implements X. Then covering Q+T
<Venko> I hope that the viva's worth a considerable amount of the marks. I trust I'll do better in that.
<cbx333> hey all
<cbx333> where did handbrake go ?
<czajkowski> Daviey: ping
<gord> cbx333, it was never in the repos
<gord> heh cool, if you load up the iso in windows it has a usbcreator.exe on it. man ubuntu rocks
<cbx333> man unity blows
<cbx333> why does that sodding docker only come out on some occasions
<Laney> what does the little blue triangle in the top left mean?
<penguin42> anyone know what the wait for ppa's to start at the moment is?
<Laney> ah, something demanding attention
<KrisDouglas> Well Unity didn't last very long :(
<Psychobudgie> you should give it more time
<Psychobudgie> it'll grow on you
<Psychobudgie> like a cyst
<KrisDouglas> HAHA
<Psychobudgie> :P
<KrisDouglas> Well, I would love to
<KrisDouglas> But I use this PC for work, and it really got in my way
<KrisDouglas> esp. the fact you had to search for most of your programs, it just didn't feel user friendly.
<KrisDouglas> it is utterly useless on multimonitor too
<Psychobudgie> it isn't meant to be, it's shuttleworth friendly and that is all that matters
<KrisDouglas> They have made good decisions in the past, but this one is most certainly not the best. Unity has been released well before it's due I think
<KrisDouglas> It feels like it has been rushed
<Psychobudgie> nothing wrong with unity, it's just not a desktop shell
<Psychobudgie> it's a notebook shell
<Psychobudgie> where space is premium
<penguin42> Psychobudgie: Not sure, I can see the thoughts on bringing that more together - I just wish it was a bit more modular
<knightwise> evening
<KrisDouglas> Yeah, actually i have to agree
<KrisDouglas> it almost wastes my 2 22" monitors
<KrisDouglas> evening knightwise
<penguin42> KrisDouglas: On multihead how do the menus work now ?
<Psychobudgie> It's like it's taunting my 21" display
<KrisDouglas> It just sits on the left hand side of my right hand screen
<KrisDouglas> its a pain in the arse
<KrisDouglas> they have a panel at the top of each screen though
<penguin42> KrisDouglas: Nod, it would make sense for it to appear on the panel on each screen
<Psychobudgie> but not a panel as we know it
<KrisDouglas> but the hover over area where it hides the title and replaces it with the menu is awful, really awful.
<Psychobudgie> yup
<gordonjcp> KrisDouglas: I didn't find Unity particularly user-friendly either
<Psychobudgie> I absolutely despise that
<Psychobudgie> I mean I really really hate it
<knightwise> i have a script i made to pull the most recent podcasts from my downloaded podcasts
<KrisDouglas> gordonjcp, I can imagine it's the nuts on a netbook.
<knightwise> i have it RSYNC them to a folder
<gordonjcp> KrisDouglas: I needed to remove the menu bar at the top of the screen, the utterly nauseating drop shadows and the windo icons on the wrong side
<Psychobudgie> It's like someone looked at amiga os 15 years ago and tried to redo the menus from memory
<Psychobudgie> it's awful
<gordonjcp> KrisDouglas: can't see it being any good on a netbook
<knightwise> but when i let it run , it deletes all the files it copied over .. but three ... http://pastebin.com/4SNvHkVF
<knightwise> any thoughts ?
<gordonjcp> KrisDouglas: it's crap at low resolutions
<gordonjcp> KrisDouglas: at 1680x1050 it's just barely usable but it really needs more
<KrisDouglas> gordonjcp, oh.
<KrisDouglas> the icons are way too big on high-res monitors though
<gordonjcp> also I don't like the way they've removed the taskbar and replaced it with a strip of anonymous little squares
<KrisDouglas> I know, makes me think of Windows 7
<gord> time to trust in the ubuntu installer not to wipe my windows drive
<KrisDouglas> and I run countless RDP sessions, and I can't tell what session is which.
<gordonjcp> KrisDouglas: so, I've got no idea what square is for what
<KrisDouglas> gord, the installer is really good. Never had a problem with it installing next to another machine.
<KrisDouglas> gordonjcp, yeah, same problem here.
<gordonjcp> to identify the apps, I need to run the mouse pointer slowly down the strip and see what tooltip pops up
<gordonjcp> KrisDouglas: I have a dyslexia-like thing that absolutely knackers me for semiotics
<KrisDouglas> gordonjcp, Windows 7 actually does that better in some respects.
<gord> KrisDouglas, it is, but i have never just let it do its thing before
<KrisDouglas> gord, good luck then, we'll see :)
<popey> KrisDouglas: i use it on multi monitor
<KrisDouglas> popey, what do you think of it?
<KrisDouglas> I saw some of your messages on the uk list
<popey> works fine for me
<gordonjcp> KrisDouglas: I've never used Windows 7
<knightwise> i wonder if i could pull off a dist upgrade on the macbook air
<knightwise> perhaps its better i wait a while
<gordonjcp> KrisDouglas: I can't really tell which icon is which, although firefox is easy because it's mostly orange
<gord> there are some multi-monitor stuff we need to get better at, but right now it works really well i think
<gordonjcp> the Alt-F2 thing is broken
<gord> alt+f2 is awesome :P
<gordonjcp> gord: I can't get it to work
<gordonjcp> gord: it works if I type r-e-a-l-l-y s-l-o-o-o-o-w-l-y
<gordonjcp> and let it catch up for a few seconds at the end, then it will nearly always guess what I typed in
<KrisDouglas> popey, do you ever feel like when you press the menu button that brings up the search that it gets in your way?
<gord> hehe, the installer might as well just be "USE UBUNTU ONE ALLREADY!!!"
<gordonjcp> I want Alt-F2 to work the way it does in Gnome
<KrisDouglas> There seems to be a few too many clicks to get to where the app I am after is
<KrisDouglas> Or I type it, which when it's got an obscure name is a pain
<gordonjcp> I really, really wish I wasn't stuck with Ubuntu
<demlasjr> hello guys. I have some problems connecting to my wireless network. Is there any problem connecting to WPA, WPA2 or WEB ?
<demlasjr> WEP*
<KrisDouglas> gordonjcp, why are you stuck with it?
<gord> shouldn't be, i just got natty to connect to WPA2 just a minute ago
<gordonjcp> KrisDouglas: because I need to help some people that are using it
<demlasjr> I tried to ask in ubuntu us, but the room is full and nobody helping me :(
<KrisDouglas> gordonjcp, and haven't you switched to the classic GUI on the login screen?
<demlasjr> gord can you please help me if you can ?
<gordonjcp> KrisDouglas: it's just as bad, tbh
<KrisDouglas> gordonjcp, I se.
<KrisDouglas> gordonjcp, That's just gnome, works exactly the same for me
<gordonjcp> KrisDouglas: I don't use Ubuntu and after Natty I won't recommend it any more
<gord> demlasjr, don't ask specfic people to help you :) just ask the room, if someone knows the answer they will pipe up. or you may wish to take a look at askubuntu.com
<Monotoko> alt+f2 does work the same way...?
<gordonjcp> Monotoko: no, it doesn't
<knightwise> hey ;-) if anyone has an idea whats wrong with my script .. please scream : http://pastebin.com/4SNvHkVF
<gordonjcp> Monotoko: you can't just type in what you want and hit return
<gordonjcp> Natty is clearly a distro for geeks, and geeks only
<demlasjr> well...I tried everything...in wep, wpa, wpa2....now I can't even see my router in the wireless list...sometimes the icon is disappearing....
<gordonjcp> it's not newbie-friendly at all
<gord> yeah you can
<gord> aaand our user testing disagree's with you gordonjcp
<demlasjr> and I'm already 2 f***ing hours under a table
<demlasjr> trying to fix this wireless :(
<gordonjcp> gord: well, it fails the "My Mum" test instantly
<KrisDouglas> I think non-poweruser wise it's not too bad.
<Monotoko> gordonjcp, it'll take a few days at most to adapt to it, and people who have already converted to Linux will be used to changing away
<Monotoko> in my opinion it is a lot more user friendly
<gord> gordonjcp, you mean you tested it with your mum? or you just assume
<ahayzen> HI
<gordonjcp> gord: I backed up my mum's PC, updated it to Natty, and sat her down in front of it; she can't use it
<ahayzen> the natty installer is still stuck at 'restoring previously installed packages'
<ahayzen> is there any way of finding out the progress of this?
<ali1234> the wine/pulse/hda bug is not fixed :(
<KrisDouglas> ahayzen, that took a while when I ran an upgrade.
<ahayzen> how long did it take for you?
<gordonjcp> all her desktop icons are gone, nothing is easy to find, she can't work out the menu-at-the-top-of-the-screen thing
<KrisDouglas> around 20min/half an hour.
<gordonjcp> gord: she's moderately computer-literate, but not particularly so
<ahayzen> mines been going for 1 1/2 hours to 2 hours :'(
<KrisDouglas> gordonjcp, the global menu
<gordonjcp> KrisDouglas: I can't figure the global menu out at all
<demlasjr> so I guess that I need to switch to windows... :|
<gordonjcp> demlasjr: yes
<gord> gordonjcp, why are all her desktop icons gone?
<gordonjcp> demlasjr: or a different distro of Linux, or alternatively read the wiki for instructions
<gordonjcp> gord: no idea
<gord> thats not unity.
<KrisDouglas> demlasjr, what has happened with your wireless? Has the upgrade broken it?
<gordonjcp> gord: so for the moment I've wiped it and put 10.04 back on
<Laney> my girlfriend is annoyed that it took over her windows+[123456789] keys for switching workspaces
<gordonjcp> gord: at least she can get stuff done with that
<demlasjr> no KrisDouglas....I can't get it working....I tried 2 hours and nothing....
<demlasjr> I tried WEP, WPA,WPA2, no way to make it working...
<Laney> It would be great if unity's keybindings were exposed in gnome-keybinding-properties
<demlasjr> it's like I'm introducing a wrong password
<Laney> because at the minute I can set up conflicting keybindings there
<gord> gordonjcp, or you could sit down with her for two minutes to explain how to search and use the launcher :) but whatever - i'm just saying that our user testing shows that unity isn't perfect, of course, but its certainly not the train wreck you make it out to be
<KrisDouglas> Could be the driver that is loaded for your wireless card is incorrect, demlasjr.
<gord> Laney, problem is that its compiz your talking about there not unity, compiz is multi-platform so it can't be something integrated into gnome like that
<Laney> why can't compiz look at those bindings too?
<gord> gnome doesn't have those bindings does it?
<Laney> which?
<gord> whatever one you are talking about :)
<demlasjr> it was installed by jockey KrisDouglas
<Laney> no, I'm saying that they should be in there
<KrisDouglas> demlasjr, look at your PM
<gordonjcp> gord: I don't know how to use the search or the launcher
<gordonjcp> gord: and I can't figure it out
<gord> Laney, gnome does its own thing, gnome doesn't even support you using compiz anymore, can't really say "hey you should have this binding" - gnome just has what it has
<gord> we do need to unify the keybindings somehow though, obviously
<Laney> compiz at least reads the bindings from g-k-p, because the ones we set to non-conflicting shortcuts work
<KnightAir> hey Laney
<KnightAir> long time no see
<Psychobudgie> I actually quite like the search, hit the super key and type away
<Laney> ello
<Psychobudgie> works well
<KnightAir> anyone have any idea whats wrong in this script http://pastebin.com/4SNvHkVF
<gordonjcp> yuck, compiz is back
<Psychobudgie> it's the global menus I hate, they are as aesthetically appealing as me with a hangover and as user friendly as ....well me with a hangover
<KnightAir> it rsyncs the "newest" podcassts downloaded into the  subdirs of my podcast folder to the destination folder
<gordonjcp> is there a way to get rid of compiz entirely?
<KnightAir> works great .. and then it deletes them all again .. but three
<MartijnVdS> xfce :P
<Myrtti> oh, the SPEED
 * popey hugs 10.04
 * Myrtti just upgraded her internet connection with a new ADSL2+/802.11n box
 * KnightAir decides not to upgrade after watching popey hug
<Laney> the Ubuntu Gnome 3 Remix would be good
<gordonjcp> Myrtti: I just switched from BT to Orange, so hopefully I should see some difference from their ADSL2+/802.11n router
<suprengr> popey, +1
<ahayzen> what would happen if i stopped the upgrade of natty at 'Restoring previously installed packages'? is there much more for it to do after this?
<Azelphur> Had a street party for royal wedding, got ssh on the machine doing the music and made it play white n nerdy. :D
<gordonjcp> I celebrated the royal wedding by jetwashing the cat's litter tray
<Azelphur> xD
<Myrtti> I've never seen 2.0M/s on wget before, and I've had this deal with my ISP for... years.
 * gord sulks with his 2mbit
<gord> oh how i wish for 3mbit some day
<gord> i will tell my grand kids about it
<gordonjcp> heh
 * gordonjcp can remember when 2400bps was pretty new and spangly, and 9600 was amazingly quick
<MartijnVdS> back when you rode to work on the back of a dinosaur?
<gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: uphill both ways, yes
<jibadeeha> flintstones
 * gordonjcp still uses 1200bps and 9600bps modems, pretty much daily
<jibadeeha> i remember using bulletin boards on 1200bps
 * MartijnVdS started with 2400 (with MNP4)
<MartijnVdS> or was it 5
<Laney> I remember dialling a BBS only to find out that it had shut down when loud shouting started coming out of my modem
 * jacobw seems to remember gord saying 2mbit was enough for anyone
<KrisDouglas> we have 50meg broadband here
<gordonjcp> Laney: haha
<KrisDouglas>  stuff comes down at about 4ish MB/s
<gordonjcp> Laney: I used to be able to whistle 1200bps connect tones
<gord> jacobw, it is :) but you always want more right?
<MartijnVdS> KrisDouglas: I'm getting a 600/600 connection somewhere this year :)
<gord> at least at the moment i'm not limited by 2mbit
<gordonjcp> Laney: this usually crashed the modem my mate used for his BBS, so if his parents wanted to phone him they'd phone me, I'd phone him up and lock up his modem, and then they'd phone and get through :-D
<gordonjcp> gord: are you on a really long copper loop?
<KrisDouglas> MartijnVdS, The best we have is a 40/100 at one of our customer's offices. Nothing like that
<gord> gordonjcp, no idea
<gordonjcp> gord: I'm moderately out in the sticks, and get 4Mbps
<gordonjcp> with a ridiculously long copper loop from the exchange
<gordonjcp> that goes via underground cable about four miles to a weather station, then the last quarter of a mile via overhead lines that keep getting blown down ;-)
<gord> all i know is that internet speeds in my area all suck :) waiting for FTC with a non crappy isp
<MartijnVdS> KrisDouglas: I'm in the Netherlands, and the company that's laying the fiber (= KPN, think BT) wants to go faster than current cable standards can provide :)
<KrisDouglas> MartijnVdS, damn you.
<gordonjcp> gord: I tend to get my overhead line back up pretty quickly since I have a bit of a "magic number" for BT Openreach ;-)
<MartijnVdS> KrisDouglas: (= TV cable cable; to annoy their biggest competitors)
<gordonjcp> gord: we do something like Â£60 or 70k a year on BT lines, so they seem quite keen to keep me happy...
<KrisDouglas> We're a BT wholesale partner XD
<gord> heh i started downloading a game on steam and my ubuntu update speed plumited from 20 minutes left to 242 minutes left. we must be doing some TOS or something nice like that :)
<KrisDouglas> Steam is terrible, it just drains the whole connection to get stuff down quickly.
<KrisDouglas> yay 14.5kb/s off the ppa servers
<gord> yeah it does do that... my favourite is when its downloading so much that when i try and launch a game, it takes like five minutes for steam to contact its authentication servers
<Azelphur> I'm having so much fun messing with the computer that's playing music on the street party via ssh from my room :D
<Azelphur> I made it play white n nerdy, the theme tune to only fools and horses, and I aplayed "Got ya nose!" from asdfmovie
<Azelphur> next I'm going to enqueue jingle bills in the playlist XD
<ali1234> someone rang up bbc radio nottingham and requested frog princess by divine comedy
<popey> heh
<popey> reminds me, must upgrade to 30Mb
<ali1234> i upgraded internet here yesterday
<Azelphur> added jingle bells to the rythmbox playlist :D
<Azelphur> teehee.
<ali1234> got 200GB allowance now, and no metering off peak
<gord> why i have be unlimited, no silly rules like that
<Azelphur> hahaha it's playing
<Azelphur> everyone in the street is cracking up
<gord> you just gets the internet
<ali1234> gord: and you get 2mbit :)
<ali1234> anyway what happened to sky unlimited super fast internet?
<gord> i get 2mbit with every isp :) actually much higher than the 1 to 1.5 i was getting with sky
<KrisDouglas> our broadband is BE Unlimited bonded
<popey> whats the betting virgin aren't there at this time of night
<ahayzen> my upgrade of 10.10 to 11.04 is still sitting at 'Restoring previously installed packages' :'(...
<KrisDouglas> ahayzen, I think it's gone wrong now.
<ahayzen> there seems to be network activity but it is like taking ages :'(
<ahayzen> what is supposed to happen after the restore?
<popey> wheeee
<ahayzen> is it like finished then or does it config GRUB, dpkg etc...?
<ahayzen> basically what would happen if i hit the reset now???
<gord> no idea, but its not gonna be good ;)
<popey> ahayzen: did you try dropping to the console to see what its doing?
<ahayzen> yh i am running top at the moment and http and ubiquity are taking most of it ...
<popey> if you do a "ps aux | grep apt" does it return anything other than grep?
<ahayzen> it shows...
<ahayzen> 4 results.
<ahayzen> /usr/bin/python /usr/bin/apt-clone /target/ubiquity-apt-clone/apt-close-state-ubuntu.tar.gz natty --destination /target
<ahayzen> /usr/lib/apt/methods/http (two of them)
<ahayzen> grep --color=auto apt
<ahayzen> whoops i was missing a bit...
<popey> the http indicates it getting something from a repo/mirror
<ahayzen> /usr/bin/python /usr/bin/apt-clone restore-new-distro /target/ubiquity-apt-clone/apt-close-state-ubuntu.tar.gz natty --destination /target
<ahayzen> ok
<ahayzen> is there anyway of seeing the progress of this?
<ubuntuuk-planet> [iain woz ere] hello-oneiric - http://orangesquash.org.uk/~laney/blog/posts/2011/04/hello-oneiric/
<popey>  how big is /target/ubiquity-apt-clone/apt-close-state-ubuntu.tar.gz
<popey> just ls -lh /target/ubiquity-apt-clone/apt-close-state-ubuntu.tar.gz
<ahayzen> 42K
<popey> heh
<ahayzen> --rw-r--r-- 1 root root 42K 2011-04-29 17:56 *the file*
<ahayzen> is tht the creation date or last modified?
<jacobw> i think its last modified
<ahayzen> what is tht file actually used for?
<popey> i suspect you machine is just stuck on a slow mirror :(
<ahayzen> :(
<popey> in ubiquity is there a 'skip' button in the bottom right?
<ahayzen> yh but it is greyed out i think ... i'll check..
<ahayzen> yeah it is greyed out
<popey> hit it anyway
<popey> does it work?
<ahayzen> nothing :(
<popey> :(
<ahayzen> if i stopped the install ... then just tried to boot and see what happened.. if very bad then could i not just run the live cd again and press upgrade again?
<ahayzen> or would tht not work
<ahayzen> and then hopefully get on a faster mirror :)
<ahayzen> is there anyway in CLI to show the current network i/o usage?
<popey> yes
<popey> !info iftop
<lubotu3`> iftop (source: iftop): displays bandwidth usage information on an network interface. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.17-16 (maverick), package size 31 kB, installed size 104 kB
<popey> in a terminal:-
<popey> sudo apt-get install iftop
<popey> http://www.ex-parrot.com/pdw/iftop/
<ahayzen> need to enable universe i think...
<popey> shouldnt need to
<popey> sudo apt-get update
<popey> first
<ahayzen> ok
<zleap> hi
<ging> is there anything that doesnt have a top program these days?
<popey> universe is on by default
<popey> ging: toptop?
<popey> top users of top
<zleap> i loaded up 11.04 earlier and it didn't seeemto have unity
<popey> zleap: what video card?
<zleap> not sure
<popey> lspci
<zleap> it was elsewhere
<popey> or lshw -C video
<zleap> is unity no default on some hardware
<popey> yes
<zleap> ah
<popey> if the video card doesn't support certain OpenGL features
<ahayzen> i got about 50kB/s ! :(
<zleap> it auto switches to gnome
<zleap> popey, thats cool
<ahayzen> 'You will have to enable the component called 'universe''
<popey> ah
<ahayzen> is there not a native-pre installed tool?
<ahayzen> or even how much it has downloaded
<jibadeeha> in all my years of using Linux i never knew about iftop .. fantastic piece of software
<popey> ahayzen: i dont know what it's downloading
<popey> if you like iftop you'll like vnstat :)
<ahayzen> well like the gnome-system-monitor it shows the i/o of network and the total i/o
<penguin42> hmm, I didn't know either of those - but I've used ntop before
<jibadeeha> i only discovered iotop a few months ago
<popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/600959/
<jibadeeha> will look at vnstat
<popey> ^^ thats from me running vnstat on my server
<ahayzen> or how can u tell the gnome-system-monitor to show in tty7? from tty1
<jibadeeha> like the output of vnstat popey
<popey> there's also....
<popey> jsvnstat
<popey> http://popey.com/bandwidth/
<popey> which plots the output from vnstat
<popey> \o/ graphs
<jibadeeha> nicely formatted output
<ging> my server does less data in a month than yours does in a day
<KrisDouglas> jibadeeha, iftop is incredibly good.
<jibadeeha> KrisDouglas, been after something like iftop for ages
<KrisDouglas> jibadeeha, we use it on our voip servers a lot when we are experiencing issues.
<ging> KrisDouglas: where do you work?
<ahayzen> right got iptraf installed ...
<ahayzen> it is showing 200 - 500 kbits/sec
<ahayzen> tht can't be gd if it has been running for 3 hours?
<KrisDouglas> my machine is pulling 8544 kbits/sec
<KrisDouglas> :s
<ahayzen> but wht on earth is it doing ?...
<KrisDouglas> ahayzen, IRC uses some data
<ahayzen> IRC is on a separate machine ;)
<KrisDouglas> but if it's just running idle with no apps open then that is pretty worrying
<ahayzen> it is doing 'restoring previously installed packages'
<KrisDouglas> ah
<ahayzen> but for like 3-4hours
<KrisDouglas> perhaps it's downloading something gargantuan?
<ahayzen> i think i might stop it and do a fresh install... i got my /home on a separate partition...and backups;)
<ahayzen> halting..
<popey> *BOOOM*
<ging> what happens if you have multiple ubuntu installs on a machine which all use the same /home partition?
<ahayzen> its working!...
<popey> :)
<popey> what happens what ging ?
<ahayzen> just gotta sort out nvidia drivers...
<ging> popey: well i was going to unstall 11.04 to some free space on my hdd and use my existing /home partition, just wonders if that would cause issues
<ahayzen> plymouth was like really bad didn't even show the Ubuntu logo!
<ging> especially if i had the same login name for both
<popey> it will if an app in 11.04 updates a config file format or database schema
<popey> and then you boot back to old ubuntu and that cant cope
<ging> yeah that was what i was worried about
<ging> i guess it would be ok if i used a differnt login name, but my simple mind would not cope with that
<czajkowski> wonder did carla make it on here
<czajkowski> popey: did you see a tweet a few mins ago re a mate with an acer trackpad issue
<popey> uhm
<popey> oh, ya
<popey> no idea
<jacobw> http://members.iinet.net.au/~pontipak/redsquare.html
<ahayzen> thanks for everyones help, i've got unity working and loving the scrollbars :) thankies everyone!
<penguin42> the scrollbars are interesting, when I first saw them I was wth - but they're growing on me; I think I might actually like them
<gord> huh
<gord> installer broke
<jacobw> i think i may be addicted to miniclip pool :|
<demlasjr> Hey Douglas ...I just want to let you know that the problem was related with the 64bits edition
<demlasjr> thank you for your help
<demlasjr> however....my processor is a little higher than in 64 bits :) but is ok
<31NAAD95W> ok now how i can change my login as this one such or how i can register one ??
<gord> and now i'm in grub rescue :(
<asykymyra> ok got it :P
<penguin42> gord: What happened?
<gord> no idea
<asykymyra> i need some help with this if anyone got a minute https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SettingUpNFSHowTo
<jacobw> !register
<lubotu3`> Information about registering your nickname: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/InternetRelayChat/Registration - Type Â« /nick <nickname> Â» to select your nickname. Registration help available by typing /join #freenode
<asykymyra> !register kirior
<jacobw> not quite, `/msg nickserv register help`
<jacobw> and nickserv will tell you how to register your nick
<jacobw> is there any specific problem with that doc?
<gord> hrm, every time it goes in to a grub rescue...
<jacobw> no grub config files?
<gord> its complaining about an unknown file system, i don't know. i'm not messing about with grub. trying with a full wipe this time - might as well get rid of windows on my laptop anyway, never use it
<jacobw> i wouldn't try and fix a broken install with ubuntu
<gord> wow. now, erm. now i'm looking at a tty, but i have a mouse cursor
<gord> is that normal?
<gord> that doesn't sound normal
<jacobw> you can configure a terminal to have a pointer, but afaik that isn't the default terminal configuration in ubuntu
<Oli``> popey: Thanks for the AskUbuntu.com plug
<popey> np :)
<gord> hrm, now i get no bootable device...
<gord> why does ubuntu hate me :(
<jacobw> bios?
<gord> bios is fine
<jacobw> are you installing from usb?
<gord> o_O
<gord> why has the installer gone insane?
<gord> took a look at the partitions it made, a 19.07mb fat16 partition, a 230.87GB ext4 and 2gb of unknown
<jacobw> its a conspiracy
<jacobw> did you checksum the iso?
<jacobw> those partitions are pretty insane
<gord> it was a torrent downloaded iso, has built in checksumming
<gord> manually created the partitions and using manual partitioning now, lets see if it works
 * jacobw predicts corrupted packages
<popey> gord: there's no option in 11.04 to have the launcher always visible is there?
<jacobw> popey: are you finding that its always visible?
<popey> that wasnt what I asked :)
<james_w`> Hide Launcher = Never in ccsm?
<popey> ahh
<popey> magic, thanks jacobw
<popey> er james_w`
<popey> :)
<gord> ... so it managed to corrupt my swap partition during the install
<gord> now my swap partition is Unknown
<popey> is it possible to edit the contents of the dash?
<gord> how do you mean?
<popey> change the things listed there
<gord> there are lots of different sources, what kind of things?
<popey> the four apps, browse the web, play music
<popey> that kind of thing
<jacobw> you need a scorched earth policy with this sort of weirdness, start again from scratch
<gord> ah, nope, hardcoded for now
<popey> even if you change default browser?
<gord> no no, it uses your default
<jacobw> unity would be so much better if stuff wasn't hard coded
<gord> i think thats the only thing hard coded...
<popey> jacobw: indeed, and ponies
<gord> is there anything else?
<popey> yes, one more thing
<popey> in the search for apps thing, where you see the list of apps you recently used
<popey> can you make that list bigger (and maybe get rid of the 'apps available for download') ?
 * gord is getting angry with ubuntu now
<gord> i can't install the damn thing and it corrupts my partitions constantly
<Oli``> gord: I'm late to the table but have you tried an upgrade from 10.10? Seems like it might be safer if you're having issues with the installer
<gord> thats a last ditch thing
<jacobw> i think you need to check the install media
<jacobw> does ubuntu still have the grub option for that? i can't remember
<gord> it does
<Oli``> It's pretty painless now. You can install 10.10 from CD and then pop the 11.04 CD in and do the upgrade from the live environment (eg - you don't have to download 11.04 one package at a time)
<gord> its not painless when you have to download 10.10
<Oli``> Fair point.
<gord> no errors found on the media
<jacobw> hmm :|
<JGJones> Hmm I'm impressed at how well Unity 2D is performing on ATI Radeon 7000VE
<JGJones> (and even more glad that my old Shuttle PC is still performing just fine, but sad that my original Radeon for it stopped working (jammed fan, and overheated and no longer works) so had to plug in a spare card.
<penguin42> JGJones: Well don't forget it doesn't actually have to do anything that clever - (which is the whole reason 2d wasn't that hard)
<JGJones> penguin42, I know :) Still...I'm impressed...I actually find 11.04 more responsive compared to 10.10 on the PC (I installed 10.10 originally at first)
<Mez> Guys and girls - I'm bored crapless - someone give me book reccomendations
<igitihi> Is anybody able to help me restore my grub menu? I can't boot into Ubuntu anymore... Please, it's urgent!
<penguin42> Mez: Get a Feynman book
<penguin42> igitihi: OK, so what did you do?
<jacobw> penguin42: genius
<igitihi> penguin42: I have a dual boot system (XP & Ubuntu). I had to reinstall XP and did it successfully but now I can't boot into Ubuntu anymore.
 * jacobw has just finished reading a feynman
<penguin42> jacobw: Which one?
<penguin42> igitihi: OK, so you've got an Ubuntu install CD?
<demlasjr> hello again...one more question, does anybody is getting black screens here ?
<igitihi> I do have the latest live cd but it doesn't work. It "loads" for about 15 mins and then returns an error message
<jacobw> "surely you're joking mr feynman"
<penguin42> igitihi: OK, so you need to get yourself a working Ubuntu boot cd or thumbdrive image, preferably for the version of Ubuntu you want to fix
<igitihi> penguin42: but I do have a "Super Grub" rescue cd. Is it any good?
<Daviey> czajkowski: o/
<penguin42> jacobw: Ah, I've not read that one - I've read his papers on computation, the QED one (which I've mostly forgotten), 6 easy pieces and am in the middle of the 6 not-so-easy
<penguin42> igitihi: Maybe, I've never used it; if you can use that to boot into the installed Ubuntu then you should be able to tell it to reinstall grub
<jacobw> penguin42: the one i've just read is a series of short stories from different points in his life
<igitihi> penguin42: Do you know a fast server or torrent site where i can download a live cd? The official ubuntu site is too slow
<penguin42> igitihi: It's not a good day for it - EVERYONE is downloading
<demlasjr> guys....anybody know something about this bug ? http://www.mailrepository.com/ubuntu-bugs.lists.ubuntu.com/msg/3662666/
<igitihi> penguin42: Would Hiren's boot cd be useful?
<penguin42> dunno - never used it
#ubuntu-uk 2011-04-30
<igitihi> penguin42: What if I boot into a mini_Linux using this cd? Could you help me with the terminal commands?
<penguin42> igitihi: No, if you can boot into your installed Ubuntu then I might be able to help
<igitihi> penguin42: Unfortunately I can't. Thanks anyway!
<jacobw> Mez: have a look at 'incognito' by david eagleman
<igitihi> penguin42: Hey, I managed to boot into Ubuntu!
<igitihi> penguin42: How do I restore the grub now?
<penguin42> igitihi: Try running update-grub and see if that manages it
<penguin42> although I'm not sure that will actually reinstall it if needed
<jacobw> update-grub will do that
<igitihi> let's see...
<igitihi> hmmm... nope, I get an irrelevant grub menu which lists older ubuntu versions that simply don't exist anymore!
<penguin42> hey?
<igitihi> since both OS are intact, is there a way to build a new grub menu so that I can use both?
<penguin42> grub-install should do a basic install of grub, and I would have thought doing an update-grub after that should find your other OS
<igitihi> Here's the problem: I can boot into ubuntu using the superGrub cd. When I boot form the hard disk, I get a boot menu that points to older versions of ubuntu than my current one and so I can't boot
<igitihi> I think the mbr is messed up. Any ideas to get it right?
<jacobw> if the mbr was messed up you wouldn't get to grub
<igitihi> but I get to a wrong bersion of grub (apparently) that points to other versions of Ubuntu than the existing one
<penguin42> igitihi: update-grub should update all that to be the ubuntu you have installed - that is assuming you've booted into the ubuntu installation you think you have
<igitihi> that's what I did, I booted into 9.10
<igitihi> but the menu I get when I boot from the hard disk points to 8.04!
<igitihi> and doesn't work of course
<igitihi> so, my ubuntu partition is there and works fine but I just can't boot into it normally
<gord> http://publib.boulder.ibm.com/infocenter/wsdatap/v3r8m1/index.jsp?topic=/xs40/convertingbetweenjsonandjsonx05.htm - haaaaaaaaaah hahaha - ibm is funny!
<zerosumgame> keep getting a fetch error when trying to upgrade, anyone else getting that error too?
<zerosumgame>  http://gb.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/universe/x/xulrunner-2.0/xulrunner-2.0-mozjs_2.0+nobinonly-0ubuntu1_i386.deb
<zerosumgame> it says i dont have permission to access
<Oli``> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HiHuiDD_oTk
<hamitron> damn it
<hamitron> cat is been sick after eating slugs
<Azelphur> hamitron: why did your cat eat slugs?
<hamitron> I dunno
<hamitron> it eats silver fish too
<Azelphur> you should probably talk to your cat about that. :p
<hamitron> :))
<hamitron> my rail to volcano nearly done
<hamitron> not sure if to sleep or complete it :/
<Azelphur> rail volcano?
<hamitron> my volcano in minecraft now has a train station in it
<hamitron> :)
<Azelphur> fun :D
<hamitron> it is done and works
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> nn o/
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] My Dream Ubuntu One Feature - http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/04/30/my-dream-ubuntu-one-feature/
<knightwise> morning !
<knightwise> hey GingerDog
<knightwise> morning to ya
 * MartijnVdS plays some spachechem
<MartijnVdS> spacechem*
<dwatkins> Good morning folks
<jibadeeha> morning dwatkins
<MooDoo> morning all
<MartijnVdS> \o
 * MartijnVdS fills up the kettle
<MooDoo> milk 2 please :)
<MartijnVdS> *shudder*
<jonsaint> hi all. is there any reason why my pc is telling me its going to take about 7hs to download the new release?
<Guest64803> because its 700MB in size
<Guest64803> for the cd iso anyhow
<scoundrel50a> hi, got a problem, with Natty installation, its the appearance. I like the Mac4Lin Theme, with the controls on the left of the screen. Now, when the window is Maximized, in the top bar, it shows the controls on the left, but if you Minimize the window, it shows the control buttons on the right, how can I get it to stay on the left. Plus, is Mac4Lin have support from Natty?
<jonsaint> but ive had others before and its took no time, especially since i got 50 meg download speed
<Guest64803> have you tried running in classic mode scoundrel50a?
<Guest64803> try connecting to a different server, some of them are slooooow
<scoundrel50a> not yet, I will give it a go now, what do you want me to look out for when I try looking in classic mode
<MartijnVdS> jonsaint: try getting the .torrent, it'll be loads faster
<jonsaint> cheers
<Guest64803> unity will bet at the top level in ubuntu mode, unity isnt enabled in classic
<scoundrel50a> ok, rebooting now, I'll msee what it looks like
<Guest64803> you could have logged out and selected from the window manage selection menu :)
<scoundrel50a> oh, I didnt know that its now rebooted, much better, I do prefere the classic view, yay, and dropbox is back,
<scoundrel50a> I'll see if I can get Mac4Lin working again now
<Guest64803> :)
<scoundrel50a> yay, got my Mac look back, brilliant. Thank you
<Guest64803> cool :) enjoy!
<MartijnVdS> uhrm
<MartijnVdS> Unity isn't mac look enough? :)
<Guest64803> true
<Guest64803> each to there own i guess, one of the wonderful thing to free/libre and open source software... can do with it what you want :)
<jibadeeha> unity looks nothing like mac
<Guest64803> its similar wouldnt you say jibadeeha?
<jibadeeha> okay i retract that statement after thinking about the global menu
<MartijnVdS> and the dock
<MartijnVdS> or whatever it's called in unity
<Guest64803> did you all upgrade on thursday?
<MartijnVdS> I upgraded months a go
<MartijnVdS> ago*
<Guest64803> to 11.04?
<MartijnVdS> Yeah, the development version
<Guest64803> me too :)
<scoundrel50a> ok, I suppose what I meant was the Mac4Lin theme I liked, I dont know much about Mac software, have used it a few times, but itsw this theme I like, plus, I like my FDropbox icon in view
<scoundrel50a> In Maverick, you have the option in appearances of choosing visual effects, in Natty, that option isnt there. How can you work out what visual effects you can get on you computer without it?
<Pendulum> morning
<Guest64803> are you using compiz scoundrel50a?
<scoundrel50a> I dont think so, I'll see if its installed.
<scoundrel50a> ok, got compiz installed and working, brilliant thank you. :)
<kaushal> Hi
<kaushal> Can someone please guide me about Networking Issues ?
<kaushal> is this the right place ?
<kvarley>  kaushal: Please state your problem, then if anybody knows how to solve your problem they will answer you. :)
<kaushal> kvarley: sure
<kaushal> I have a Networking issue between the telco and our end, telco says there is no issue at their end
<kaushal> and blame us the issue is at our end
<kaushal> so the issue is there is round about 20% - 30 % of packets
<kaushal> loss
<kvarley>  kaushal: Can you access the internet from any computer inside your network? What does you router say about your connection status? (Your router page can be accessed via a web browser if you are using a router, usually it will be http://192.168.1.1 or some other combintation)
<kaushal> kvarley: nope
<kaushal> its a SMPP protocol
<kvarley>  kaushal: Networking isn't really in my field of knowledge, sorry. If you don't get a response in this channel shortly you may want to ask in #ubuntu - It's the main Ubuntu support channel and is generally more active than this LoCo
<kaushal> kvarley: ok
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<kvarley> brobostigon: 0/
<brobostigon> kvarley: o/
<kvarley> brobostigon: hows it going?
<brobostigon> kvarley: not bad, tired, and my mind hurts. and you?
<kvarley> brobostigon: You need more coffee xD And not too bad, just battling with Unreal Tournament 2004 - it won't show any of my mods in the menu :/
<brobostigon> kvarley: i have my first coffee of the day here. hmm, :( not good.
<jibadeeha> on my second here but still in bed
<kvarley> jibadeeha: Nice
<kvarley> jibadeeha: I started off with an espresso, might be time for another
<jibadeeha> i am feeling a bit worse for wear
<jibadeeha> espresso sounds good to me - i need a shot of that
<brobostigon> fingers crossed,  hope theyshow click on bbc news.
<brobostigon> unlikely i reckon, :(
<jibadeeha> what is on click?
<brobostigon> jibadeeha: it is a technology news program.
<jibadeeha> ah yes just wondered if there was something special on it this week
<brobostigon> no click, :(
<brobostigon> click got ditched again, for insignificant populerist news.
<gord> click still exists?
<gord> who was watching it?
<brobostigon> me, trying to watch it, but it got ditched, for insignificant populerist claptrap.
<gord> i might suggest that is what click was anyway ;)
<gord> although the last time i saw it was when that older guy got replaced with some newer guy
<brobostigon> gord: click is a good techprogram.
<oimon> brobostigon: you like it? i've always found it pretty lame
<oimon> MS-centric and behind the curve
<oimon> when they make tech things mainstream they lose the tech audience and also the mainstream audience IMO
<brobostigon> oimon: ms centric. i have pretty much, found them good at mentioning and reporting onother systems.
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Tony] Elisabeth Sladen - http://tonywhitmore.co.uk/blog/2011/04/19/elisabeth-sladen/
<HazRPG> \o
<popey> lo
<MartijnVdS> \p
<gord> whats the key combination to remove any mention of royal or wedding from my internet?
<Pendulum> gord: the x in the corner of your browser :P
<gord> Pendulum, aha, i'll just have to use my backup internet then *opens a directory labeled "pictures_of_funny_cats"*
<Pendulum> :D
<phonex01> How can i change folders and files properties of FAT23 and NTFS files through ubunt ? like changed hidden to un-hidden ?
<nigelb> gord: hrm, you could technically write an extension that reads the content of your page and if royal wedding is found redirects to you kittens ^-^
<gord> should be a version of adblock that does that
<MartijnVdS> gord: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DJPFRJA-Po
<gord> ooookay, 10.10 won't even boot
<OmNomDeBonBon> What did everybody have for breakfast today?
<popey> exobuzz: http://www.jonnor.com/2011/04/introducing-maliit-on-screen-keyboard-in-gnome-3/
<popey> :)
<MartijnVdS> popey: is that gnome shell?
<gord> thats a nice keyboard
<gord> MartijnVdS, the keyboard isn't, the bar at the top is
<MartijnVdS> gord: That's what I meant, sorry
<nigelb> gord: nothing beats Swype :)
<exobuzz> popey, interesting. ill have to try that one
<exobuzz> see how it compares to florence
<gord> i stopped using my swipe like thing with the latest android, the new keyboard is great
<nigelb> oh neat
<nigelb> I used an iPhone and an Android phone.
<nigelb> I had great difficulty with the iPhone keyboard
<gord> yeah, i don't like the ipad keyboard either, others do though so iruno
<nigelb> (which I did find odd, I thought Apple were great in UX)
<gord> apple are great in UX, for people who like that kind of UX, but there are a lot of us that need something different, yay market choice
<nigelb> heh
<gord> interesting, so yeah 10.10 will install fine, but 11.04 goes insane
<gord> must be that evil unity thing
 * gord writes a big blog post
<HazRPG> I is not impressed: https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/-tedGRcfQT4DIgUILLn1kQ?feat=directlink
<HazRPG> that's what it looks like on the computer next to me
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: what? the keyboard or unity?
<HazRPG> hmm?
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: what is "it"? :)
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: the screenshot is of the desktop of 11.04 being blurly and unusable
<nigelb> gord: didn't you write a few lines of code for that evil unity thing?
<nigelb> :p
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: that's not even on a virtual machine, that's on my spare machine!
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: blame gord
<HazRPG> xD
<gord> i think i'm the first guy in the commit logs for unity :)
<nigelb> gord: exactly! a 'few' lines :p
<MartijnVdS> nigelb: one or two
<HazRPG> only reason I managed to get a screenshot uploaded, was because I constantly had to move windows around so that I could refresh its screen long enough to read things
<nigelb> MartijnVdS: yeah, we don't count the zeros that come after the one or two :p
<MartijnVdS> nigelb: zero is nothing anyway
<nigelb> haha
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: not in programming!
<gord> okay, lets see how well an 10.10 upgrade to 11.04 goes, i bet it goes swimmingly
<HazRPG> the upgrade will be fine, whether it runs properly is another issue
 * brobostigon crosses fingers for HazRPG 
<TheOpenSourcerer> gord - The upgrade I did on my son's PC didn't go swimmingly at all. :-(
<gord> well this is straight, "as installed" 10.10 to 11.04 - i mean, that should be fine
<gord> i never really trust upgrades when i change the packages
<czajkowski> Daviey: you here
<livingdaylight> greetings
<brobostigon> afternoonings livingdaylight :)
<TonyP> Hi. Does anyone know how I can get Unity running in 11.04.  It works with a live USB with beta but not after upgrade from 10.10.
<MartijnVdS> TonyP: Log out, then select it from the menu on the login screen (might only appear after selecting your user name)
<TonyP> MartijnVds: Sorry, should have said that does not give me Unity (just a message first time about hardware)
<MartijnVdS> what kind of graphics card do you have?
<MartijnVdS> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DemystifyingUnityGraphicsHardwareRequirements
<TonyP> ATI Radeon Xpress 200 integrated
<TonyP> But remember, the live USB *does* give me Unity
<MartijnVdS> check if you're using the same driver on the live usb
<TonyP> Both seem to use 'radeon'
<MartijnVdS> TonyP: can you run the command on that page?
<MartijnVdS> /usr/lib/nux/unity_support_test -p
<TonyP> Gives me 'Segmentation fault'
<MartijnVdS> that shouldn't happen
<MartijnVdS> it does explain why it doesn't work though
<MartijnVdS> sounds like things weren't installed correctly/fully
<MartijnVdS> Did it offer you to install "better drivers"?
<TonyP> Looks like it ran OK the one time hen I first booted into 11..01
<MartijnVdS> TonyP: Hence my question about installing other drivers :)
<TonyP> No offer for better drivers
<MartijnVdS> TonyP: can you check if any packages matching "fglrx" are installed?
<MartijnVdS> TonyP: or even better
<MartijnVdS> TonyP: pastebin the output of "jocket-text -l"
<MartijnVdS> sorry
<MartijnVdS> "jockey-text -l"
<TonyP> MartijnVdS: jockey-text -l gives me nothing. fglrx is installed.
<MartijnVdS> TonyP: System -> Administration -> Additional Drivers
<MartijnVdS> TonyP: can you open that
<TonyP> MartijnVdS: gives me nothing
<MartijnVdS> TonyP: it should at least ask for your password
<MartijnVdS> and then open a window
<MartijnVdS> it might take a while to open
<TonyP> MartijnVdS: No just does 'searching for available drivers' then opens the window with 'No Proprietary drivers are in use on this system'
<MartijnVdS> hmm
<MartijnVdS> it really sounds like you installed "wrong" bits of a driver somewhere
<MartijnVdS> or some GL library
<MartijnVdS> I'm not really an expert in this area :|
<hamitron> could it be related to someone needing to re-install ubuntu-desktop last night?
<MartijnVdS> it could be a corrupt .so on the hard disk
<MartijnVdS> but that would be scary
<MartijnVdS> or corrupt RAM
<MartijnVdS> slightly less scary, but still scaryish
<daubers> o/
<MartijnVdS> \o daubersman
<daubers> popeys website seems to be nerfed
<MartijnVdS> the front page works
<MartijnVdS> popey: your blog is b0rken
<daubers> MartijnVdS: Front page doesn't work for me :(
<TonyP> MartijnVdS: Thanks for your help for now - I'll have a look round for other stuff
<MartijnVdS> daubers: "popey.com" works for me, static html-ish thingy
<daubers> MartijnVdS: Ah, I had a www. in the front and that doesn't
<MartijnVdS> ah without the www the blog also works
<daubers> Yes :)
<MartijnVdS> popey: correction, it's only slightly broken :) -- with www it doesn't work, without it works fine.
<MartijnVdS> popey: however, blog.popey.com redirects to www.popey.com/blog and is broken :)
<brobostigon> http://paste.ubuntu.com/601343/  can someone give me a hand with the if statement please.
<KrisDouglas> Has Google Calendar been dropped (support wise) from Evolution?
<MartijnVdS> KrisDouglas: let me check
<KrisDouglas> I can no longer click New>Calendar and then select Google.
<MartijnVdS> KrisDouglas: I have "Google Calendar" as an option in the "New calendar" dialog
<KrisDouglas> What version of Evo are you on?
<MartijnVdS> KrisDouglas: 2.32.2-0ubuntu7
<KrisDouglas> 2.32.2 on 11.04 doesn't give me the option
<KrisDouglas> What the hell.
<MartijnVdS> KrisDouglas: maybe you need evolution-plugins as well?
<KrisDouglas> at least I'm not going insane.
<KrisDouglas> I have those.
<MartijnVdS> KrisDouglas: or if you have that, enable the plugin in the plugins dialog
<KrisDouglas> waaait
 * MartijnVdS waits
<KrisDouglas> I am going mad. Sorry I had installed the evo experimental plugins, not the standard ones. Thank you :)
<MartijnVdS> np :)
<oimon> brobostigon: are yo allowed to do that? if Ne >= Ney and <= Ne
<brobostigon> oimon: iamnot sure, thatis why i amasking, but the if statement, nneeds to check for those two states,
<oimon> what are you trying to check?
<oimon> if ( (Ne >= Ney) AND ?? )
<popey> MartijnVdS: www.popey.com now fixed
<popey> thanks daubers too :)
<MartijnVdS> popey: \o/
<brobostigon> oimon: if Ne is greater than or equal to Ney, and Ne is less than or equal to Ne(y+1) , otherwie dont go anyfurther.
<oimon> what's Ne(y+1) ? Ne isn't a function AFAI see. do you mean the array ne[] ?
<brobostigon> oimon: the variable Ne, plus whatever y is, + 1.
<brobostigon> oimon: i amtrying to convert my dads mathematics here.
<MartijnVdS> #maths :)
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: i understand the mathematics, tht isnt the issue, it convverting it into c, which is the problem,
<oimon> are you trying to multiply Ne * (y+1) ?
<brobostigon> no.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: I missed the start of the conversation, sorry
<MartijnVdS> What are "Ne" and "Ney"?
<brobostigon> http://paste.ubuntu.com/601343/
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: simple variables, within the equation i am trying to convert,
<MartijnVdS> Ne[y], Ne[y+1]
<MartijnVdS> those look like array access..
<MartijnVdS> but it looks all wrong :)
<brobostigon> use a comma, ok, let me try.
<MartijnVdS> no wait :)
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: i will scan my dads mathematics for you.
<MartijnVdS> I meant, you use the name "Ney" without declaring it first :)
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: Ney is declared, up top.
<MartijnVdS> ah yes.. but isn't the language case-sensitive?
<brobostigon> it is,yes.
<MartijnVdS> also.. it's a programming language -- useful names are allowed
<oimon> ;)
<MartijnVdS> What do "Ne" and "I" mean? and "g", "x" "a", "e", "ex" etc.
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: Ne* and I* and entries within an array,
<oimon> prob best to scan the page of Maths :P
<brobostigon> that is what i am doing.
<MartijnVdS> the goto 1:/if bit looks like an infinite loop, in the right (wrong?) conditions.. you never refresh your variables between gotos :)
<oimon> i've never used goto in C before
<MartijnVdS> oimon: I have, but I think he wants a while or a for here
<oimon> yep
<oimon> i haven't used C properly for over 10 years but it comes back eventually
<MartijnVdS> I use it from time to time
<MartijnVdS> mostly hacking on existing code though
<brobostigon> https://docs.google.com/document/pub?id=1kMgtVoNwDgJGD2tLjVVvSHIVE8JkmMJrgFjAMubb8vs
<brobostigon> there we go, a link to the scanned document.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: You'll want to use:
<MartijnVdS> how do you write that in C
<MartijnVdS> argh
<MartijnVdS> my head is in Perl mode :)
<brobostigon> :)
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: it's a standard loop though: y=y+1 until ne(current) >= ne[y] AND ne(current) <= ne[y+1]
<oimon> something like:  while ((Ne >= Ney) && (Ne <= Ne*(y+1)) ) {y++;}
<MartijnVdS> oimon: no it's Ne[y] and Ne[y+1] I think
<oimon> ah, the lower case array ne[ ] ?
<MartijnVdS> yes
<MartijnVdS> so it becomes:
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: is this about val or speed? :)
<MartijnVdS> ah read "Ne x"
<MartijnVdS> enginespeed :)
<brobostigon> Nex, is going to be a point within the array.
<MartijnVdS> I think it shuold be:
<oimon> i have my 1yr old son on my lap so finding it hard to join in :P
<MartijnVdS> while ((Nex >= ne[y]) && (Nex <= Ne[y+1])) { y++; }
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: instead of the goto/if/y+1 lines
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: so not just the if statement replace thqt with, but the whole block?
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: those 3 lines should be replaced with the one
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: note that it doesn't cope with Nex > (maximum value in ne[])
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: (oops, bug in my line: replace Ne[y+1] with ne[y+1])
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: like http://paste.ubuntu.com/601352/
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: (this reads like obfuscated code ;))
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: like that, yes (but see my correction)
<oimon> i should take up coding again...doing it at uni put me off :P
<oimon> then writing boring stuff like hash tables and data feed handlers in my 1st job made it even more dull..don't think linux was around in those days though
<MartijnVdS> oimon: pre-1991?
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: http://paste.ubuntu.com/601354/
<brobostigon> like that?
<oimon> MartijnVdS: let's say it didn't hit my radar until 1999
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: yes
<oimon> rh5.1 manhattan was my first one
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: What are you trying to do? (high level)
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: engine speed relativeto the wheel speed, based on the curve, with the values in those two arrays.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: both reading and writing? Robotics? :)
<ali1234> gradient on a straight line?
<ali1234> tip: work out what the maths is actually doing and then use standard functions
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: car control, hydraulics.
<brobostigon> ali1234: i know what the maths is doing.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: again, start with naming the variables "properly" -- give them names that explain what they contain
<MartijnVdS> it'll help you write the code -- if you can say "if(speed > speed_bracket[current_speed_bracket]) { }", that's much more understandable than "if (x > y[z]) {}"
<ali1234> this code is supposed to calculate Ix based on Nex
<ali1234> is the relationship really a straight line as implied by the graph?
<brobostigon> ali1234: yes.
<ali1234> then there is no need for so much curve
<ali1234> Ix = m*Nex+c
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: that is what i thought i had done, named them appropriatly, based ontheir relationship to the array.
<ali1234> simply derive m and c based on what you have, and the job is done
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: Sure but are you going to remember what "Ix" and "Nex" are next week? Next month? :)
<ali1234> Ix is a random point on the I axis and Nex is a random point on the Ne axis
<brobostigon> ali1234: let me rite that down, and try it,
<ali1234> i have nfc what I and Ne are but it doesn't matter
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: But what do I and Ne mean?
<ali1234> don't know, don't care :)
<oimon> someone should :)
<ali1234> if it said X and Y instead, it would be a lot easier to understand
 * MartijnVdS doesn't want to read ali1234's code :P
<oimon> hehe
<ali1234> the question i have is why is there ne[] and Ip[]?
<brobostigon> they a random letter, to represent them, nothing more
<ali1234> what those numbers in the arrays for?
<brobostigon> ali1234: http://paste.ubuntu.com/601362/
<brobostigon> ali1234: they represent the points on that graph,
<jonsaint> this new o/s is killin me! how the heck do i mount my secondary drive using this thing??
<ali1234> you only need two points if it is a straight line
<Azelphur> jonsaint: you click on it in the file browser.
<ali1234> let me check if those points all fall on a line
<ali1234> they don't
<oimon> don't look like it
<ali1234> each segment is presumably a straight line though
<brobostigon> ali1234: my dad gave me those array figures, so i am assuming they are all there, for a good reason.
<jonsaint> daft question but wheres filebrowser on this new one?
<Azelphur> jonsaint: on the side bar, it's the big file icon, in yellow.
<ali1234> brobostigon: so you have a series of points and you are basically interpolating them, correct?
<brobostigon> alt + f2,then enter nautilus,
<brobostigon> ali1234: yes.
<jonsaint> its not there
<oimon> linear interpolation?
<ali1234> oimon: according to the doc, yes
<jonsaint> i got files and folders but its not in there either
<Azelphur> jonsaint: if the drive isn't showing up in the file browser then something isn't right, maybe install gparted and have a look at it.
<brobostigon> ali1234: that document i scanned is the mathematics i have been given, by my dad, and spent several hours earlier trying to explain it all.
<ali1234> brobostigon: lolz
<ali1234> you should use openservo for this
<ali1234> this is all it does
<brobostigon> ali1234: let melookthatup, onminute.
<ali1234> interpolate on a graph and then output a pwm signal to reach the desired position
<jonsaint> Azelphur, you mean files and folders on the left in the bar?
<Azelphur> yep
<Azelphur> it should say the drive label or X GB File system
<ali1234> it does cubic spline interpolation though, so smooth changes
<jonsaint> Azelphur, very strange because everything worked fine before i upgraded.
<Azelphur> fun, I upgraded and can still see all my drives
<oimon> jonsaint: you could try mounting it manually
<brobostigon> ali1234: that sounds right, yes.
<jonsaint> Azelphur,  all it says in files and folders is recent, downloads and favourite folders. thats all thats in there
<Azelphur> (16:44:28) Azelphur: jonsaint: if the drive isn't showing up in the file browser then something isn't right, maybe install gparted and have a look at it.
<brobostigon> ali1234: so would your "Ix=m*Nex+c" work ?
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: why gparted if the standard disk tool works :)
<ali1234> yes once you calculate m and c for the current line segment
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: I'm stuck in the past :D
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: s/calculate/lookup
<Azelphur> jonsaint: system > administration > disk utility will work too instead of gparted
<ali1234> you have to calculate them at least once
<brobostigon> ali1234: ok, whatare m and c?
<Azelphur> see if it shows up in there :)
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: magnitude and a constant :)
<ali1234> the gradient and constant
<ali1234> don't they teach this stuff in school any more?
<MartijnVdS> :P
<brobostigon> umm, ok.
<jonsaint> Azelphur, how do i get to system lol. i got used to the old way but this has thrown me
<brobostigon> ali1234: no.
<Azelphur> jonsaint: just type disk utility after clicking the ubuntu icon in the top left :p
<ali1234> brobostigon: get some graph paper
<brobostigon> ali1234: got,
<ali1234> ok draw two two axis and a line like the chart you already have
<brobostigon> ali1234: done.
<ali1234> or indeed like this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Linear_Function_Graph.svg
<ali1234> now mark any two points on the line
<jonsaint> Azelphur, many thanks. its there! but do i need to do this everytime i restart the pc?
<MartijnVdS> ali1234, brobostigon: http://www.khanacademy.org/video/linear-function-graphs?playlist=ck12.org%20Algebra%201%20Examples
<ali1234> brobostigon: next, measure the vertical (y) distance between the points
<brobostigon> ali1234: done.
<ali1234> and the horizontal(x) distance
<ali1234> now do y/x
<ali1234> now repeat for two different points
<brobostigon> 1/1
<ali1234> on a straight line, y/x is always the same
<Azelphur> jonsaint: you mounted it ok from disk utility but not nautilus?
<ali1234> this is called the gradient, or m
<jonsaint> Azelphur, yes. i used that disk utility
<ali1234> now look at where the line crosses the y axis
<ali1234> this is called c
<brobostigon> ali1234: yes, makes sense,soits is the difference between those twopoints?
<Azelphur> jonsaint: I'd be very tempted to file a bug, if it shows up and mounts fine in disk utility but nautilus something must be up.
<ali1234> now you know m and c you can calculate the y value at any x, by y = mx+c
<brobostigon> ali1234: my line crosses on the 0 point.
<ali1234> brobostigon: doesn't matter it is true for any line
<jonsaint> Azelphur, well im very new to ubuntu (only been a few months) so getting used to one system then having this is like learning all over again lol
<ali1234> as long as it's not paralle to y axis
<brobostigon> ali1234: oh, i see,
<ali1234> then it explodes to infinity
<Azelphur> jonsaint: you do know you can use the old layout if you like
<ali1234> (division by zero)
<brobostigon> ali1234: makes moresense now.
<Azelphur> jonsaint: unity is just a default, you can do whatever you want :)
<jonsaint> Azelphur, how? never knew you could
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: check that Khan academy video
<Azelphur> jonsaint: at login, there's a drop down box, change it to classic desktop.
<jonsaint> Azelphur,  ah right il check that out. many thanks!
<Azelphur> :)
<ali1234> brobostigon: so anyway, you have a list of points, each two adjacent points form a line, for which you calculate m and c
<ali1234> then you interpolate between them using the forula
<brobostigon> ali1234: isnt the equation my dad has givenme, in the middle of my scan,doing that already?
<Azelphur> myself I don't use gnome-panel or unity, I'm running a hacked up monstrosity consisting of 8 instances of cairo-dock and no nautilus desktop xD
<ali1234> brobostigon: yes, in a mixed up round about way
<ali1234> brobostigon: this is why i said, understand what the maths is doing and then implement it using standard functions
<ali1234> like y = mx + c
<ali1234> instead of trying to implement it as one big crazy function
<brobostigon> yes, simpler aswell.
<ali1234> once you do this you can later swap out y = mx+c for a cubic interpolator instead
<ali1234> it's a drop in replacement, it just needs to consider the two previous and two following know points
<ali1234> if you're controlling a motor with the output and you use linear you'll get a bump when you cross a point
<ali1234> cos the graph has a corner there
<ali1234> with cubic that won't happen
<brobostigon> ok, letme and write it down.
<ali1234> your pseudo code will be like:
<jonsaint> Azelphur, just tried it on a reboot and i got no option to change, the only thing i got was some other things like to make the screen bigger etc
<ali1234> 1. find the known points either side of Ix
<Azelphur> jonsaint: it's there, you have to click on your username at the login screen, then it's next to the language dropdown
<ali1234> 2. y = linear_interpolate(previous, next, x);
<brobostigon> ali1234: dothe same with Nex
<jonsaint> Azelphur, when i click on my username it logs in
<ali1234> oh yeah you are supposed to do it the other way around
<Azelphur> jonsaint: passwordless login? :P
<jonsaint> yes
<Azelphur> jonsaint: ubuntu button, type login screen
<Azelphur> change the default session there
<Azelphur> :)
<jonsaint> superb. done it! many thanks yet again!
<Azelphur> yw
<jonsaint> chat soon!
 * brobostigon is confused. :(
<brobostigon> ali1234: sorry, but i am still alittleconfused.
<brobostigon> new Dr Who, in 50 mins, :)
<ali1234> brobostigon: what are you confused about?
<ali1234> brobostigon: you know how to calculate points on a line now right?
<ali1234> so implement this function:
<ali1234> int linear_interpolate(int x1, int y1, int x2, int y2, x) {
<ali1234> given two points (x1,y1) and (x2,y2), calculate the y value at x on the line the twooriginal points fall on
<brobostigon> (x1/y1) * (x2/y2)
<brobostigon> no, thats boit right,
<brobostigon> not*
<brobostigon> yes, that is right, becaue you are working out the difference, and then * them.
<jonsaint> can anyone recommend a firewall. currently got firestarter but since upgrading its moved it and now its telling me that eth0 is not connected to the net even tho it is??????
<gord> http://freespace.virgin.net/hugo.elias/models/m_perlin.htm is a good resource on what i think your trying to do
<gord> jonsaint, why do you think you need a firewall? you probably don't :)
<jonsaint> i thought i did??
<gord> you don't :)
<ali1234> brobostigon: y = mx+c
<jonsaint> also because i got a passwordless log in, it asks for my keyring password once im in but since upgrading its asking me twice for it??
<gord> you need a firewall on wndows because its full of viruses and malware, we don't have such a problem on ubuntu, your perfectly safe to run without any firewall, 99.9% of ubuntu users don't run with a firewall
<gord> jonsaint, yeah thats a bug, one that i'm gonna try and make sure gets fixed next cycle. i have to put my password in 4 times at least, up to seven
<jonsaint> ah right. cheers, il keep my eyes open for an update on that one
<brobostigon> ali1234: ah, umm, i was miles away.
<brobostigon> brb.
<gord> can all the people currently update/upgrading please stop? i'm getting just terrible speeds
<Azelphur> noted :P
<AlanBell> Myrtti: is it an exopc that you have?
<X3N> what would you call the play pause fwd/back keys?
<popey> media keys
<X3N> would that include volume keys?
<popey> yes
<popey> collectively they're "media keys"
<gord> what about the email key?
<X3N> I need a way of describring the play pause fwd/back keys which doesn't include the volume keys
<brobostigon> ali1234: thank you for your help, i am guarenteed to have more questions.
<popey> media control keys?
<X3N> hmm yeah
<X3N> though it's a volume control key
<X3N> media actions?
<X3N> I'm writing a patch for g-s-d to be able to pass volume control keys to applications
<X3N> though some apps don't want to control their own volume so I need a way of grouping actions and volume keys separetely
<X3N> control keys will probably work
<marek__> hi all
<marek__> any1 got some time to help me with some nfs related problems ?? please
<marek__> any one home?
<brobostigon> yes, but i know zero about nfs, sorry.
<MartijnVdS> doctor in 10
<brobostigon> :)
<gord> printer took in half a piece of paper then claimed that it was out of paper
<gord> printers are basically drunk toddlers
<brobostigon> lol.weird behaviour,
<gord> and now its printed a giant size bordering pass
<brobostigon> lol
<daubers> marek__: Whats the problem?
<MartijnVdS> doctor in 0
<MartijnVdS> Whoa @ Doctor </spoilers>
<brobostigon> :)
<nigelb> gord: lol, did you see the giant boarding pass?
<nigelb> http://www.buzzfeed.com/gregp3/giant-boarding-pass-2nvq
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: https://twitter.com/#!/DalekThay/status/63669217236484097
<MichealH> Woah
<MichealH> Dr.Who was great
<MartijnVdS> MichealH: can't wait for the rest of the series now :)
<MichealH> Me either :)
<MichealH> A new time lord?
<MartijnVdS> MichealH: no spoilers for some other people here please :)
<hamitron> don't make me close the window :/
<hamitron> ty
<hamitron> :)
<MartijnVdS> some people watch later
<MichealH> hamitron: I will stop now :P
<MichealH> It was just a quick spoiler i should not have made, sorry
<MartijnVdS> hamitron: All I have to say is.. it's GOOD
<hamitron> I am looking forward to tonights
<hamitron> :)
<MichealH> hamitron: You really should
<oly> hi guys, just noticed the card reader on my studio 17 no longer works in 11.04 anyone got any suggestions on what may need doing ?
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: :)
<MartijnVdS> Dr Who confidential on BBC3 now
 * Azelphur gets bored of these making of the making of the making of shows on TV
<Azelphur> the xfactor and similar ones are funny
<Azelphur> they are recruiting to do a show for the queen, so they make a TV show about the recruiting process, and then they make a TV show about the making of the TV show about the recruiting process
 * popey has let wifey watch silly dancing programme
<popey> so i will watch doctor who later
<Azelphur> so they are making a show about the making of a show about the making of a show.
<Azelphur> \o/
<Azelphur> oh wait, I had one too many makings there
<hamitron> not for long..... they will steal your idea
<hamitron> ;/
<Azelphur> it's a show about the making of a show about a show.
<Azelphur> hamitron: haha
<hamitron> I also hate the way they seem to put more of the same thing on, knowing people watch it
<hamitron> some things it gets to the stage where it is a lifestyle, keeping up with them
<hamitron> geez, 6gb hdd space left
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> this is your fault Azelphur
<gord> i have 700mb free space on this computer
<hamitron> you are a bad influence on me
<hamitron> I dunno how we do it :/
<hamitron> life used to be good with 1Gb hdd
<hamitron> ><
<hamitron> suppose it still is when i don't go crazy
<livingdaylight> is everyone rocking on 11.04 now?
<hamitron> 10.04 baby ;/
<gordonjcp> livingdaylight: nope
<gordonjcp> livingdaylight: won't touch it with someone else's stolen ten foot shitty stick
<livingdaylight> gordonjcp, woah?
<livingdaylight> i'm backing up here, before making the move
<hamitron> it is often good to let others "test" it first ;)
<popey> its also good to form your own opinion
<hamitron> yep
<livingdaylight> are people reporting back with issues on this one? gordonjcp, or why?
<gordonjcp> livingdaylight: 11.04 is by far the worst desktop experience I've ever had in any OS
<gordonjcp> livingdaylight: but don't let me put you off
<hamitron> ANY? ;/
<gord> livingdaylight, gordonjcp just doesn't like it, just try it for yourself and as popey says, form your own opinion
<gordonjcp> hamitron: any
<livingdaylight> gordonjcp, is that unity you're not liking?
<gordonjcp> livingdaylight: all of it
<gordonjcp> although Unity is impossible for me to use
<livingdaylight> gordonjcp, sheesh, surprising to hear.
<gordonjcp> sound is broken
<gordonjcp> ... but that's the usual pulseaudio borkedness
<livingdaylight> by the way is there an option during install to disable unity, or is that done afterwards?
<popey> at logon time
<gordonjcp> livingdaylight: you can log in with classic desktop
<gord> you should prolly try it before assuming you don't want it...
<gordonjcp> yeah, give it a go
<hamitron> when we say "ubuntu".... do we mean the desktop OS or the basic "core"?
<hamitron> ;/
<popey> depends on the context
<Psychobudgie> I'm on 11.04 with gnome 3
<gordonjcp> hamitron: well, as a distro I don't like Ubuntu, for a variety of reasons
<Psychobudgie> it's da bomb
<gordonjcp> hamitron: mostly due to the sheer cackhandedness with which it's put together
<gord> well thats just untrue
<popey> here we go
<gordonjcp> sound? "YOU WILL USE PULSEAUDIO" but that breaks the stuff I already use... "YOU WILL USE PULSEAUDIO! AND JUST TO MAKE SURE, WE'LL MAKE IT RESPAWN ENDLESSLY IF IT EVER GOES AWAY!"
<brobostigon> Psychobudgie: interesting, there arent many of us. gnome3 and gnome-shell improves alot upon gnome2.
<Psychobudgie> brobostigon, I completely agree
<MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: fix the stuff you already use
<brobostigon> Psychobudgie: the workspace management to start.
<gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: it works perfectly.  It requires jack
<Psychobudgie> brobostigon, way better than unity to boot
<gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: pulseaudio is entirely incompatible with it
<popey> the jack and pulse developers have been working together to make that a non issue
<popey> thats upstream from us
<Psychobudgie> like the fact I can use mouse or keyboard to manage stuff and not have how I use the desktop forced on me
<gordonjcp> right, but I still don't want pulseaudio cluttering stuff up
<gordonjcp> having the choice would be nice
<hamitron> you do have the choice
<gordonjcp> it doesn't do anything particularly useful for me
<gordonjcp> hamitron: well, yes, use a different distro
<livingdaylight> gordonjcp, sounds like you already have a negative bias against Ubuntu; not discounting your experience though
<hamitron> yeh ;)
<brobostigon> Psychobudgie: i think the start time is about the same.
<gordonjcp> hamitron: unfortunately I'm stuck supporting my stuff for people who want to use it in Ubuntu
<Psychobudgie> brobostigon, even if there is any difference it really is splitting hairs
<gordonjcp> hamitron: and many of them aren't technically-minded enough to know why pulseaudio is a Bad Thing
<brobostigon> Psychobudgie: i agree, i simply prefer gnome-shell as it fits the way i work better, than with unity.
<Psychobudgie> brobostigon, I personally prefer the whole gnome-shell experience to that of unity. Unity just doesn't feel right. Gnome 3 feels professional and well thought out
<popey> hah
<popey> well thought out?
<popey> yes, they based their "thought" on Unity design documentation!
<gordonjcp> Psychobudgie: is there a way to get a gnome 2-like taskbar in gnome 3?
<hamitron> popey: called "market research"? ;)
<popey> (which is flattering)
<Psychobudgie> gordonjcp, not that I know of
<popey> hamitron: called 'waiting to see what the competition comes up with'
<gordonjcp> Psychobudgie: :-/
<MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: run xfce :P
<hamitron> hehe
<gordonjcp> Psychobudgie: that's the major thing that breaks Unity for me
<gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: yeah, I guess
<Psychobudgie> don't need one in g3
<gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: I still think it's pretty boneheaded of both Canonical and Gnome to suddenly break with convention and make a desktop with "mystery meat" navigation
<MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: But it's COOL and NEW
<gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: it looks so dated, it's like a website from 1996
<penguin42> gordonjcp: Have you tried KDE lately?  I think you get the option of Jack instead of Pulse and it's in many ways closer to Gnome2 desktop feel than either Unity or Gnome 3
<MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: research says it sucks so it must be good!
<MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: (I can't stand either one, can you tell?)
<gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: true
<gordonjcp> penguin42: not a huge KDE fan, and GTK apps are still very very broken in KDE
<gordonjcp> penguin42: and no, I'm not about to rewrite every bloody thing to use Qt
 * hamitron likes LXDE
<penguin42> gordonjcp: I used to share that view, but KDE has got better and Gnome worse
<gordonjcp> penguin42: <shrug>
<gordonjcp> penguin42: all the software I use is Gtk-based
<brobostigon> kde is utter fail, it just breaksthe way iwork, and think.
<gordonjcp> and that doesn't work well in KDE
<penguin42> gordonjcp: Just saying, it may be worth another look
<gordonjcp> Psychobudgie: what do they have instead of the taskbar in Gnome 3 then?
<Psychobudgie> swipe the mouse to the top right
<Psychobudgie> swipe the mouse to the top left rather
<brobostigon> Psychobudgie: or hit superkey. :)
<Psychobudgie> yup
<Psychobudgie> and that's pretty much all you need to do
<gordonjcp> right, but what does that do?
<brobostigon> and then go over to the workspace management, to manage your windows,
 * gordonjcp hasn't actually got gnome 3 installed
<Psychobudgie> anything that is open displays on the screen and you click what you want
<gordonjcp> hm, sounds messy
<gordonjcp> much the same as unity; you've got to whoosh the mouse around the screen quite a bit and then play guess-the-square
<Psychobudgie> messy?
<brobostigon> gordonjcp: you can do it all without mouse though, all onkeyboard,
<Psychobudgie> in what way is moving the mouse to the top left messy?
<hamitron> my parents are newbs and won't be whooshing anything ;D
<Psychobudgie> it's seemless
<penguin42> gordonjcp: Unity still has the workspace shortcuts that unfortunately Gnome3 seems to have removed a lot of
<Psychobudgie> unlike unity in which I'm surprised the stiching isn't showing
<gordonjcp> penguin42: yeah, but they broke alt-f2 which annoys me
<gordonjcp> hamitron: yeah
<gordonjcp> hamitron: I'm leaving 10.04 on my Mum's computer until it's absolutely out of support
<gordonjcp> hamitron: then I've no idea what
<brobostigon> penguin42: ctrl + alt left-right key, is all the work spaceswitching needed,
<gordonjcp> there's no way in hell I can possibly explain how to work Unity to her
<penguin42> brobostigon: It can't do up and down in gnome3 as far as I can tell and hasn't got the send to left/right/up/down
<brobostigon> gordonjcp: alt + f2 still works ingnome-shell, i use it allthe time.
<hamitron> gordonjcp: it is always a problem upgrading for some things though.... I still have 8.04 on a few machines
<Psychobudgie> gordonjcp, no guessing the square, tells you what it is in plain english below the live preview if the window is too small
<Psychobudgie> unlike unity
<Psychobudgie> which doesn't
<gordonjcp> Psychobudgie: hm, in the screenshot I was just looking at, there wasn't a caption below
<gordonjcp> yeah, unity sucks for that
<gordonjcp> you've got to mouse over everything to find out what it is
<Guest31250> hi guys,is it possible to have genome desktop on ubuntu 11.04?
<brobostigon> penguin42: there is no left right workspace, it all workspace stacked ontop, and with right click, ou canmove windows upwards-downwards betweenworkspaces.
<penguin42> brobostigon: Yeh - that's my problem
<penguin42> brobostigon: I happened to like the 2d workspace layout a lot
<Psychobudgie> gordonjcp, http://www.gnome3.org/
<brobostigon> penguin42: 2d layout, i dont see what you mean.
<Psychobudgie> gordonjcp, plenty of vids of it working as I describe
<penguin42> brobostigon: Workspaces on a 2d grid rather than just up and down
<hamitron> Guest31250: yes
<penguin42> brobostigon: I typically run with 9 workspaces in a 3x3 configuration
<gordonjcp> that page is all videos :-/
<Psychobudgie> gordonjcp, yes I know
<Psychobudgie> gordonjcp, that's the general idea
<gordonjcp> they don't make a lot of sense to me
<Psychobudgie> gordonjcp, you watch one, see it working in real time, go 'woo' and install it
<brobostigon> Psychobudgie: i could do the same inone massive row ingnome-shell aswell, and use the workspace  switcher, like normal, to change betweenthem
<gordonjcp> I don't really know what I'm looking at
<brobostigon> Psychobudgie: sorry, that was meant for penguin42
<brobostigon> penguin42:  i could do the same inone massive row ingnome-shell aswell, and use the workspace  switcher, like normal, to change betweenthem
<brobostigon> penguin42: also, when it was a grid, i frequently got lost as to where things where. soputting them in one row, is good for me.
<penguin42> brobostigon: But could I set them up so that the workspace switcher had them arranged in 2d? I get used to the layout (e.g. webbrowser in bottom right) and it's less moves in 2d than along a 1d
<Psychobudgie> here's the thing, when I installed gnome 3 I really really thought I would hate it, I mean, I hated unity and from looking at screenshots I thought it would be much the same. The thing is, it is nothing like unity. It is far superior in almost every way thinkable. Screenshots do not do it justice
<popey> !gnome3 | Guest31250
<lubotu3`> Guest31250: Gnome 3 is not currently supported on Ubuntu. A PPA for natty is available at https://launchpad.net/~gnome3-team/+archive/gnome3 but these packages are EXPERIMENTAL and UNSTABLE, will break Unity and possibly other parts of your system, and safe downgrading is not possible.
<brobostigon> penguin42: not in a grid, no. it would have to be in a numbered kindof, row layout.
<gordonjcp> Psychobudgie: can you get rid of all the little squares?
<penguin42> brobostigon: Yeh and that's my problem; I've used the grid layout for probably 15 years
<hamitron> popey: is it just the "gnome" packages to install Gnome 2.30?
<brobostigon> penguin42: ok, the gnome-shell layout forme works better, but we allwork diffeently.
<popey> hamitron: i dont understand your question
<brobostigon> ok, brb, food.
<hamitron> popey: gnome2 can be installed by running "apt-get install gnome"?
<penguin42> brobostigon: Nod, the thing that frustrates me is that by removing the _ability_ to layout in 2d it breaks it for me; there was nothing in gnome2  that forces you to layout in 2d and most don't by default - it just removed the choice
<popey> hamitron: que? on natty you get gnome 2
<hamitron> popey: oh, ok
<penguin42> anyway, food
<hamitron> I thought unity replaced it
<popey> hamitron: no we ship gnome
<Azelphur> hamitron: lol
<popey> hamitron: unity is a shell for gnome, but not gnome shell
<popey> is the standard answer
<hamitron> ah ok
<Azelphur> hamitron: 1.2TB used atm :D
<Psychobudgie> unity is a shell for gnome 2, gnome-shell is a shell for gnome 3, hence installing gnome-shell breaks unity
<Psychobudgie> or something like that
<Psychobudgie> heh
<hamitron> I'm just glad there is over a year till I switch to 12.04
<hamitron> :)
<popey> not really Psychobudgie
<popey> well kinda
<popey> hamitron: heh, I'm on 10.04 here
<popey> ^5
<hamitron> same
<hamitron> :)
<Psychobudgie> see, kinda
<hamitron> upgrading every 2 years is tooo often for me
<Psychobudgie> which was my point, you can't run gnome 3 and unity as unity sits on gnome 2
<hamitron> :D
<brobostigon> Psychobudgie: gnome-session from theppa, breaks the loading of unity from gdm, so you canonly load gnome-shell right now. directly from gdm.
<hamitron> but you can load the old gnome shell?
<popey> Psychobudgie: thats not the whole story
<Psychobudgie> yeah I know
<brobostigon> hamitron: in fall-back mode,yes.
<Psychobudgie> I'm trying to put it in simple terms
<popey> oh in simple terms..
<popey> OMG WHAT HAS MARK SHUTTLEWORTH DONE TO UBUNTU!
<hamitron> :))
<Psychobudgie> I could go into dependancies
<Psychobudgie> popey, hahah
<hamitron> or from the other side "we use unity now, so get used to it" ;/
<popey> heh
<hamitron> brb
<popey> Note: Slackware is still available
<MartijnVdS> so is xubunut
<MartijnVdS> xubuntu*
<popey> and soon lubuntu by the look of it
<Psychobudgie> gubuntu cometh
<popey> not with that name it wont
<AlanBell> and the gnome3 stuff is already in Oneiric apparently
<popey> thats already been reject by trademarks
<MartijnVdS> "Ubuntu Proper"
<MartijnVdS> :P
<Psychobudgie> gnubuntu?
<ali1234> mint
<Psychobudgie> lmao
<ali1234> so how are people taking it in the forums and stuff anyway?
<Psychobudgie> unity?
<ali1234> are there huge whine threads?
<popey> gnubuntu was rejected by RMS
<Psychobudgie> they aren't exactly united by it
<popey> ali1234: ubuntu-users is sporting some whingers
<Psychobudgie> you see what I did there ^^^^
<popey> but no more than usual
<DJones> Is gNewSense still being updated/developed
<ali1234> mailing lists aren't very representative
<popey> basically no
<popey> indeed
<ali1234> anyone checked the forums?
<Psychobudgie> how about calling it debian
<Psychobudgie> anyone?
<Psychobudgie> I think that's really catchy
<ali1234> that's where most people would go to complain i guess
<popey> yeah, i expect so
<popey> i dont use forums
<popey> lots of questions on AU though
<popey> lots
<ali1234> questions like "how do i get rid of this thing?"
<popey> some
<AlanBell> Psychobudgie: there is *nothing* wrong with choosing to use debian
<popey> not as many as you think
<Psychobudgie> hah
<ali1234> is that because they all get marked as dupes?
<popey> nah, they show up even if they're duped
<Psychobudgie> popey, thats down to people already knowing how to get rid of it ;_
 * popey shrugs
<popey> I'm in it for the long term
<popey> I see this as a blip
<popey> although I expect the next month or so to get a bit rocky
<ali1234> ah here we go. 234 page thread on ubuntu forums
<ali1234> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1695432
<Psychobudgie> bring 11.10 forward by a few months
<hamitron> 11.10 has to be pushing forward too
<hamitron> ready before the next LTS
<popey> given 11.10 repo is already open, and has a load of stuff in, it's getting there
<Psychobudgie> is unity in it though?
<ali1234> i thought ubuntu+1 didn;t happen until after UDS?
<Psychobudgie> heh :p
<popey> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/oneiric-changes/2011-April/thread.html
<popey> it opened the day of natty release
<Guest31250> popey, so ubuntu, is it going to drop genome support completly
<popey> no Guest31250
<ali1234> that's not what happened in the past though right?
<hamitron> I am tempted to download 11.04 just to see what is what :) all this moaning has got me interested
<popey> yeah, this is earlier than usual IMO
<popey> there was a lot of interest in getting it open early
<Psychobudgie> if I was mark shuttleworth, which I'm not, cause if I was I wouldn't be in here with us losers, I would drop the whole unity experiment back to notebooks and go with gnome 3 but that's just me
<popey> haha
<popey> aint gonna happen
<ali1234> gnome 3 is even worse
<Guest31250> popey, I woul dlike to use ubuntu 11.04 with the genome version which came in default with 10.10. is that possible?
<Psychobudgie> no it's not
<popey> Guest31250: gnome 2 or gnome shell?
<hamitron> if unity takes off, is gnome2 gonna be supported for a *long* time then?
<Psychobudgie> ali1234, I've been using it for the last 2 weeks and it's miles better than unity
<AlanBell> hamitron: nope
<hamitron> so unity will move to gnome3?
<ali1234> yes
<AlanBell> yes
<Psychobudgie> ali1234, unity feels like Amiga workbench 3.11 with toolmanager only not as flexible
<AlanBell> 11.11 will have gnome3 underpinnings
<popey> Psychobudgie: thats nice
<AlanBell> and it will probably not have the classic gnome pannels
<Guest31250> popey, i am using 10.10 + the genome 2
<popey> my mum would love amiga workbench circa years ago
<popey> (not)
<Guest31250> popey, gnome 2
<ali1234> lol workbench
<Psychobudgie> popey, Workbench was the bomb
<popey> Guest31250: 11.04 ships with gnome 2
<popey> Psychobudgie: it was, for 18 year old boys in their bedroom
<Psychobudgie> popey, Dopus though was killer
<shauno> that's not the first time I've seen people describe unity that way :/
<hamitron> and hopefully 12.04 will be a stable gnome3+unity after lessons learned with 11.10
<hamitron> :)
<AlanBell> hamitron: that is the idea
<ali1234> actually unity does feel a lot like workbench
<ali1234> mainly because of the global menu though
<AlanBell> well 11.10 should be pretty solid too
<ali1234> and the lack of any reasonable way to minimize things
<Guest31250> popey, i tries the live version of 11.04, it gave me unity interface to try. can i choose gnome 2 while installing?
<Psychobudgie> oh, don't get me started on the monstrosity of the global menu
<Guest31250> popey, tried
<AlanBell> Guest31250: you can choose it on login
<popey> Guest31250: once installed you can choose gnome 2 (classic) at logon time
<brobostigon> ok, if unity is going to be built on gnome-shell, then will we have the option to have normal gnome-shell and then unity?
<AlanBell> Guest31250: so on odd days of the month you can use unity and even days classic gnome
<Psychobudgie> it's awful
<popey> brobostigon: its not
<Psychobudgie> it's, douglas adams should be describing it, awful
<popey> brobostigon: unity will be based on gnome 3, not gnome shell
<brobostigon> popey: AlanBell justsaid, unity will be build with gnome3 in part.
<popey> yes
<popey> thats what i said
<brobostigon> popey: ok, so you will be able to switch still between both freely?
<popey> which is not what you said
<ali1234> gnome 3 is just gtk3
<Psychobudgie> should be able to run either if that is the case
<Guest31250> popey, AlanBell,  so does the option pop every time (to choose unity/gnome2) when i login?
<popey> you said unity will be based on gnome shell
<ali1234> with same old apps
<popey> which it will not
<ali1234> except now they have a resize gripper
<brobostigon> popey: i simplymisinterpretated,sorry.
<popey> np :)
<shauno> unity is a shell.  gnome-shell is a shell.  so it's gnome3 + your choice of shell, not -shell ontop of unity or vice, versa
<brobostigon> popey: :)
<popey> fun fun fun
 * popey is making ribs and potato wedges btw
<hamitron> it does sound fun :)
<hamitron> major changes to move the distro forward hopefully
<hamitron> rather than sticking with the same old known stuff
<ali1234> something new will appear
<ali1234> it's inevitable
<hamitron> we have a unityless ubuntu till 2013 anyways
<hamitron> if people choose
<hamitron> :)
<ali1234> some people might switch to arch and debian but they won't improve any
<hamitron> why you say arch?
<ali1234> because it's flavour of the month
<hamitron> ah :)
<Guest31250> popey, sorry to bother u...i am a noob. so am i going to two options when ever i login to 11.04
<ali1234> nobody at all will switch to fedora or opensuse
<popey> ali1234: +1
<ali1234> because those distros are extremely unfriendly
<kvarley> ali1234: I tried but proprietary stuff is a pain with it
<hamitron> I tested fedora not long ago, seemed pretty quick
<kvarley> ali1234: And no awesome community like Ubuntu has
<popey> Guest31250: everyone is welcome here, no need to be sorry
<popey> Guest31250: yes, install 11.04 and you have two options, if your 3d card supports it, you get unity, if not, then you get gnome 2 'classic'
<popey> Guest31250: and you can optionally force it to logon as gnome 2 if you want
<ali1234> even debian has a more friendly community than fedora/opensuse
<hamitron> arch is hardly friendly :/
<ali1234> yes it is
<hamitron> it is? :-o
<popey> my dinner is ready!
<Psychobudgie> goto the fedora homepage and click on the community link and look at that photograph
<popey> ttfn
<hamitron> o/ pops
<Psychobudgie> whats not to love
<Daviey> popey: slacker.
<kvarley> Anybody here have Unreal Tournament 2004?
 * hamitron does
<Psychobudgie> if anything we are all slightly less bad looking
<AlanBell> Guest31250: it is a menu at the bottom of the screen after you click your name in the chooser
<hamitron> prefer orig UT though :/
<gord> cool, i attached an ethernet cable to my laptop to put some movies on it, but had to stretch the cable so its taught at about knee level across a doorway. there is *no* *way* this can go wrong
<Guest31250> AlanBell, thanks a lot.
<kvarley> hamitron: Going to start hosting a server for a few mods of it. I love the mods but not many players play on them so going to make some videos and try and get publicity because they are good linux games
<kvarley> hamitron: Are there any mods for the original one?
<hamitron> kvarley: I never play mods tbh
<hamitron> hehe
<Guest31250> popey, thanks a lot...I hope I can go ahead and do it now :-)
<hamitron> I consider it a major hassle having to install such things
<hamitron> :/
<ali1234> so because of all this i predict a new distro will appear and start eating into ubuntu's market share before the end of the year
<ali1234> kind of like how ubuntu took all gentoo's users when it came out
<hamitron> ali1234: choice is no bad thing, just hope it retains compatibility
 * gord adds that quote to his tomboy notes, will bring it up again at christmas
<ali1234> ok
<ali1234> let's hope your tomboy doesn't crash and delete all your notes like mine did
<hamitron> why is unity a problem if you can choose not to use it?
<ali1234> i use ubuntu because i don't like tweaking things
<ali1234> if i wanted to tweak things i would still be using gentoo
<hamitron> but you are still happy with the ubuntu base?
<ali1234> meh not really
<ali1234> i don't care about the base
<ali1234> as long as it doesn't use rpm
<Psychobudgie> ubuntu got a lot of users early on as it was one of the first distro's to be as simple as you wanted it to be
<hamitron> but you'd be happy to use Gnobuntu (or whatever)?
<ali1234> only if it had gnome-panel
<ali1234> if it was gnome shell, i'd rather use unity
<Psychobudgie> mandrake had made in roads on that front but went bankrupt at the wrong time and woosh their userbase went to ubuntu in droves
<ali1234> mandrake was always rubbish
<hamitron> Mandrake was also less stable
<ali1234> they tried to do the same thing as ubuntu by making it simple
<ali1234> but they did it in a way that made it harder to use if you're not a noob
<Psychobudgie> Mandrake tried to do what ubuntu did before ubuntu did
<hamitron> before a lot of the software was ready
<hamitron> ;)
<ali1234> ubuntu actually has a well polish command line interface
<Psychobudgie> Mandrakes problem was that when they messed up they tended to really mess up
<ali1234> mandrake never had that
<ali1234> you use the graphical tools, or you are on your own
<ali1234> opensuse is exactly the sameway
<ali1234> you use yast, or you are on your own
<hamitron> I get the feeling ubuntu sticks closer to its roots too
<hamitron> (debian)
<ali1234> actually i may be wrong about people going to fedora
<hamitron> I remember the hassles of redhat rpm and mandrake rpm confusion
<ali1234> systemd might actually turn out to be good
<hamitron> imo, a fresh install of fedora felt more fresh than ubuntu
<hamitron> :/
<Psychobudgie> ali1234, it still has the same problems though with it rigidly sticking to opensource
<ali1234> why is that a problem?
<ali1234> that's a good thing
<Psychobudgie> ali1234, ask someone who is having an issue with flash, ati drivers, nvidia issues, pdf problems, codec issues
<Psychobudgie> I can go on if you like
<ali1234> i don't care
<ali1234> i literally do not care
<ali1234> if you buy that stuff and it doesn't work, complain to whoever you bought it from
<Psychobudgie> that's the spirit
<ali1234> yes, yes it is
<gord> wow. soundkonverter is way better than sound converter
<hamitron> too many k's ;/
<Psychobudgie> that addition of a k and subtraction of a c makes it sound more awesome
<hamitron> sounds like a QT app to me
<hamitron> :(
<teja2011> i am using 11.04...but i was having a problem in new look of ubuntu i tried to enable desktop cube in compiz den something gone wrong dats it i can see any panels and shortcuts...help me
<Psychobudgie> heh
<gord> well sound converter couldn't handle utf-8 strings and converts one song at a time. soundkonverter handles utf-8 strings and converts as many cores as you have at a time
<AlanBell> is Qt going to be in Oneiric?
<penguin42> AlanBell: Why wouldn't it be?
<teja2011> cant*
<gord> depends, hard to find the cd space
<AlanBell> I mean on the CD
<gord> depends if we go for the 1gb image i guess
<gord> wait till post uds
<AlanBell> oooh
<hamitron> 1gb on a cd?
<gord> no cd
<hamitron> oh noes :/
<gord> its been thrown around for years, but i doubt desktop will go for it
 * AlanBell hunts for the blueprint for that one
<gord> actually i hate soundkonverter
<gord> as it also does not work
<Psychobudgie> lol
<gord> it it failed eight times faster
<hamitron> I had better sort out my netbooting
<hamitron> ;)
<gord> i just want to put some mp3's on my phone =\ this is what you get for using flac!
 * hamitron just uses mp3
<hamitron> ;)
<Psychobudgie> me roo
<ali1234> possible candidate for new "popular" distro: http://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=chakra
<Psychobudgie> flac is just too awesome for me
<ali1234> arch based with a nicely configured kde, or so i'm told
<Psychobudgie> maybe if they rename it to flak it would be even more awesome
<hamitron> I can't run i686 on all my machines :/
<hamitron> my latest toy is only i586, hehe
<gord> oh for crying out loud, its because we are shipping that crippled ffmpeg
<gord> the one that can encode barely anything
<hamitron> :/
<ali1234> lol
<ali1234> it's not hard to install the good one
<ali1234> you have a choice etc
<ali1234> choice is good
<penguin42> hamitron: What hardware is that toy?
<hamitron> "crap or good?" ;/
<Psychobudgie> unless it involves unity in which case it's bad
<hamitron> penguin42: a SiS cpu
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> penguin42: http://www.parkytowers.me.uk/thin/VXLpercio/index.shtml
<hamitron> I should maybe get a new toy, had this one too long for a newest toy
<penguin42> hamitron: I like your classification of power when off
<hamitron> it isn't mine
<hamitron> ;/
<penguin42> hamitron: Still, it's a bit modern compared to my P90
<hamitron> yes, it will be replacing my P120 as it happens
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> just not decided how to set things up yet
<hamitron> tbh, my intention was to replace the P120, I will probably end up running both :/
<ali1234> check it out: http://distrowatch.com/images/slinks/zevenos.png
<gord> just fyi, you want the package libavcodec-extra-52 to encode mp3s
<ali1234> beos inspired?
<hamitron> it is just how things seem to work out
<hamitron> I never liked BeOS
<ali1234> hardly anyone liked it, that's why it failed totally
<j0nr> hey folks...
<hamitron> my friend bought it
<hamitron> hehe
<j0nr> is there a channel for natty probs?
<hamitron> it was supposed to be good for image editing
<hamitron> here is good for natty prob
<hamitron> :)
<ali1234> hamitron: considering that photoshop was and is the defacto standard for image editing, i'm not sure why anyone would think that
<Psychobudgie> beOS was originally scoped for the savior of the Amiga then people realised it was awful and that was that
<hamitron> ali1234: I just remember reading it at the time ;/
<Psychobudgie> I still have nightmares about the beBox
<hamitron> I actually still have the free BeOS downloads that were made available
<hamitron> :D
<hamitron> just cuz I download and collect stuff for the hell of it
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> BeOS4Linux.tar.gz and BeOS5-PersonalEdition.exe
<hamitron> :/
<ali1234> actually the main thing keeping me on ubuntu is launchpad
<ali1234> it's miles better than any of the other bug trackers that the others use
<ali1234> especially bugzilla which is horrible
<hamitron> and we thought it was cuz you loved us..... ;/
 * brobostigon shakes fist, gpu hang, :(
<hamitron> I wonder if me buying this low powered replacement device is more green than just using what i already had
<gord> how do you mean?
<hamitron> well, the SiS 200MHz uses less power than the P120
<hamitron> but the making of the SiS device will have emited carbon
<hamitron> so will it save enough power to pay for itself in carbon emissions?
<hamitron> the best thing about it, is the space on my desk it will save :)
<hamitron> having some usb ports is a bonus too
<AlanBell> is there an easy peasy way to do a network install?
<ali1234> yes
<ali1234> boot live usb, run the script off the forums
<ali1234> switch other machine to pxe mode
<ali1234> done
<AlanBell> ooh, what script?
<ali1234> dunno, i found it on google
<ali1234> probably doesn't work for natty
<hamitron> that is a feature that would be handy to have on the livecd imo
<hamitron> Tiny Linux has a script on it for such use
<gord> just noticed how silly it is that when you plug android into usb it asks you if you want to turn off usb storage... no, i want to turn it on so i can copy files!
<brobostigon> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-video-intel/+bug/715096 again, :(
<lubotu3`> Ubuntu bug 715096 in linux (Ubuntu) "[i945gm] GPU lockup (ESR: 0x00000001 IPEHR: 0x02000011)" [Undecided,New]
<czajkowski> gord: any idea http://twitter.com/#!/angeliotum/status/64045986976235520
<gord> czajkowski, nope, trackpads sound like an X thing, no idea though sorry
<czajkowski> X?
<gord> xorg, trackpad events come through that i think
<czajkowski> ahh ok
<gord> i just noticed that i replaced the default "famous authors" screensaver on my kindle with mega-drive game covers. i am a huge nerd.
<hamitron> AlanBell: this looks cool http://packages.ubuntu.com/natty/di-netboot-assistant
<czajkowski> gord: yes this is something we've all known for some time
<AlanBell> thanks hamitron
<gord> my desktop machine isn't up todate, but i really hope we didn't ship a nautilus with an appindicator for copying files with a cursor as the icon
<hamitron> time for more coffee
<hamitron> \o/ brb
<gord> hrm i can copy at about 1MB/s on my wifi, i'm betting some peoples broadband connections are better than this
<balor__> czajkowski, CyanogenMod
<czajkowski> balor__: yeah I really dont want to root phone
<czajkowski> balor__: you're a bit long in the tooth today
<balor__> czajkowski, My DSL is acting up
<AlanBell> balor__: is celebrating the narwhal
<ali1234> that joke is going to get made so much when 11.10 comes out
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: celebrating the ocelot? huh?
<ali1234> "natty is getting long in the tooth so i'm upgrading to 11.10 HURR HURR HURR"
<MartijnVdS> ah
<hamitron> do you need a special bluray writer for BD-RE DL disks, or is any BDRW drive ok?
<jacobw> natty is another release with no templates by default :|
<MartijnVdS> hamitron: yes. One of those.
<MartijnVdS> jacobw: templates?
<hamitron> MartijnVdS: which? :)
<jacobw> nautilus > right click > create document > 'no templates installed'
<jacobw> ~/Templates
<gord> heh yeah
<MartijnVdS> hamitron: dunno
<MartijnVdS> jacobw: so put some files there
<popey> evening
<exobuzz> admiral popey
<popey> pip pip
<MartijnVdS> \o
<gord> pop pop
<MartijnVdS> <o even, if he's admiral now :)
<exobuzz> hehe
<hamitron> 14 quid for a 50gb storage disk seems ok(ish)
<hamitron> :/
<gord> i guess, is it really worth investing in 50gb of storage though?
<MartijnVdS> maybe he means on-line storage?
<popey> i want to upgrade the disk in my virgin v+ box
<popey> :(
<Myrtti> AlanBell: yuo
<AlanBell> and here too
<hamitron> well, I'm thinking 50gb is better than 4.5gb
<hamitron> ;)
<AlanBell> Myrtti: akk was playing with it with ubuntu
<Guest34716> popey, are you there?
<popey> Guest34716: i am here
<Guest34716> popey: (and any macbook pro owner: have you seen this https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/774089
<lubotu3`> Ubuntu bug 774089 in Ubuntu "Booting fails 3 times, works every fourth time after new install of Natty Narwhal amd64 on Macbook Pro" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<Myrtti> AlanBell: I'm fairly sure it's a bit more useful with Ubuntu than MeeGo :-)
<AlanBell> http://shallowsky.com/blog/linux/install/natty-on-exopc.html
<Guest34716> longlong story short, to 'fix' that bug, Apple propose a logic board replacement
<gord> really want to upgrade my storage on my network. but it would require a raid or something :(
<Guest34716> Â£200
<popey> Guest34716: yes, i recommended that bug was filed
<Myrtti> AlanBell: (or rather, vanilla MeeGo, WeTab OS is actually quite nice if you ignore the Germanic point of view of the world it has)
<Guest34716> popey: I just added to it. Who should it be raised with?
<Guest34716> popey: because it looks like it is easy to fall in to that trap - I basically did a broadly default install and it broke
<Guest34716> popey: do you know of any non logic-board replacement fix?
<popey> pass
<ali1234> oh wow that's a bad one
<ali1234> can't be anything on the hard drive if you swapped it
<ali1234> therefore it must be some hardware/firmware issue
<Who__> ali1234: exactly. it really shouldn't happen like that!
<ali1234> yeah
<ali1234> macs
<ali1234> why do people buy them?
 * hamitron is ill at the thought
<hamitron> ;/
 * popey covers his macs microphone port
<popey> lest it might hear ali1234 and his bad words
<Who__> ali1234: they work great until you try and put Ubuntu on them ;)
 * popey hugs his macbook pro
<ali1234> popey: it might get mad and stop working for no reason and then you'll need a logic board replacement
<popey> apparently so
<hamitron> Macs are good products when used as designed to be
<hamitron> ;)
<ali1234> wouldn't want that to happen...
<Who__> popey: not too close, as above - dont' want anything to happen to the firmware
<ali1234> well if i had a mac and this problem this is what i would do
<hamitron> sell it?
<ali1234> first i would make a list of every single piece of hardware in it
<ali1234> then i would read the driver code in the kernel for each one
<ali1234> i would be looking for anything that has built in firmware
<ali1234> particularly ethernet
<ali1234> (there was a bug in previous kernel that killed e1000 ethernet cards)
<ali1234> i have a hunch that it might be something similar here
<popey> yeah, that was fun
<ali1234> because EFI probably tries to boot from ethernet
<ali1234> i mean it boots from HD too but that's clearly not the problem if you swapped
<ali1234> so ethernet boot rom is the other possibility
<ali1234> if the ethernet card is acting weird that might crash EFI
<Who__> ali1234: yea, that's a good suggestion, I'll add to bug report when I get the cmoputer back
<ali1234> it might not even be "killing" the eth as such
<ali1234> but it might simply be something like the driver "touches" the firmware and then EFI doesn't like it any more, even though it still "works"
<ali1234> if you see what i mean
<ali1234> the previous bug did get fixed btw, a tool was released that undid the damage
<ali1234> but it took a while
<ali1234> i wonder if merely booting the livecd is enough to cause this?
<Who__> ali1234: uncertain, and currently without a fix it's an expensive thing to test :(
<Who__> as I note in the bug report, debug was cut short because of taking it to Apple Store :(
<ali1234> according to the lspci it's got: 00:0a.0 Ethernet controller [0200]: nVidia Corporation MCP79 Ethernet [10de:0ab0] (rev b1)
<ali1234> related? : http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1083747
<popey> Who__: if you have logs I'd respond to that bug report, colin watson actually knows what he's talking about, so may be able to help
<shauno> hm; how do you actually install the gnome3 ppa?  the list lp looks like I should be installing the gnome-desktop3 meta, but it doesn't appear to exist
<popey> !gnome3
<lubotu3`> Gnome 3 is not currently supported on Ubuntu. A PPA for natty is available at https://launchpad.net/~gnome3-team/+archive/gnome3 but these packages are EXPERIMENTAL and UNSTABLE, will break Unity and possibly other parts of your system, and safe downgrading is not possible.
<popey> gnome-shell by the look of it
<shauno> fun fun .. unmeetable dependencies
<gord> i don't think that factoid is scary enough
<gord> can we put monsters in it?
<popey> :)
<shauno> it probably should be scary if there's no downgrade path :/
<gord> yeah, its basically just unstalling random libraries from what will be in O in to natty, thats not a good idea
<shauno> (to be fair, most the scary parts of that factoid are taken almost verberatim from the lp page it references)
<gord> can't hurt to wait a few months for O to be more stable can it? :)
<shauno> I'm just nosey :)  I honestly don't expect natty to be stable.
<shauno> and I don't just mean that to troll.  given the size of the changes they're making, it looks like they had the choice of either having a release that was destined to teething pains
<shauno> or skip the 6 month cycle.  which is a scarier prospect
<czajkowski> dr.who++
<shauno> trying to figure out where this gir1.2 package is meant to be coming from without X installed is kinda fun.  just had to add universe because elinks isn't in main :(
<shauno> hah, and universe fixed the problem anyway
<shauno> uff .. wondered why that was going so slow.  ie.archive is using heanet :(
<AlanBell> so with a computer that won't run unity3d should I run unity-2d instead?
<AlanBell> or is that still in a run-for-the-hills kind of state?
<gord> its not as feature-full as unity 3d and it might overwork the cpu if its a slow cpu
<kingofswords> hi
<gord> but it should be usable
<kingofswords> hi any1 use zteblade for modem
<AlanBell> wow, unity-2d is a *lot* better than I thought it would be
<shauno> not sure I should have installed gnome-shell without ubuntu-desktop :/
<brobostigon> good night everyone, sleep well.
<HazRPG> brobostigon: night :)
<brobostigon> HazRPG: good night, :)
<ali1234> mplayer: symbol lookup error: /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libXt.so.6: undefined symbol: _XtCopyFromParEnt
<ali1234> that's new
<ali1234> also, seeking in mpegs is broken in gstreamer again
<hamitron> :/
 * hamitron cuddles his LTS release with no new bugs added
<ali1234> this is odd because mplayer worked last time i used it
<ali1234> and i don't recall any updates
<ali1234> oh well time to install vlc i guess
<penguin42> ali1234: I'm curious about the capitalisation in that symbol
<ali1234> ParEnt vs Parent?
<penguin42> yeh
<ali1234> i copy pasted it
<ali1234> google only knows about Parent
<penguin42> there's an _XtCopyFromParent in that library
<ali1234> uh oh
<ali1234> tried to report a bug, firefox reported the same error
<ali1234> i think my system is fubar
<penguin42> almost looks like a 1 bit corruption
<ali1234> yeah
#ubuntu-uk 2011-05-01
<ali1234> so... bad ram?
<penguin42> most likely
<penguin42> reminds me, I need to clean my fan
<hamitron> I should install a fan
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> before the weather gets too hot
<ali1234> pidgin crashed
<ali1234> system is definitely messed up
<hamitron> memtest time? ;)
<ali1234> i wanna finish watching doctor who first
<hamitron> :/
<ali1234> apparently i have 3200mb of ram now
<hamitron> how much should you have? 4gb?
<ali1234> yeah
<hamitron> in 32 bit mode?
<ali1234> no
<hamitron> :(
<hamitron> maybe worth removing and re-installing modules?
<HazRPG> sup?
<HazRPG> also, evening guys
<shauno> o/
<hamitron> hi haz
<hamitron> shaun
<hamitron> :)
<shauno> trying to play with gnome-shell, but stupid hardware support is getting in the way again :(
<hamitron> was there less testing done on 11.04 than normal or something?
<penguin42> hamitron: No but I think there were bigger changes
<hamitron> yeh, suppose that would require more testing to make it as smooth as normal
<hamitron> which may have taken too long
<shauno> ow.  using the UI to remove restricted drivers, deletes your xorg.conf
<shauno> also, every folder in /var/log which isn't readable by a regular user, is fail
<shauno> zero point having a sudo setup if you have to sudo a shell to even navigate into the directory
<penguin42> shauno: I guess that's a security trade off
<hamitron> isn't there the "root terminal" in the apps menu?
<shauno> I can't think of anything 'sensitive' which should show up in gdm's logs
<Who__> ali1234: enjoy Doctor Who?
<hamitron> ali1234: fixed?
<ali1234> fixed the 3200mb thing yeah
<hamitron> :D
<ali1234> dunno about memory corruption though
<hamitron> what was it?
<ali1234> bios setting
<ali1234> "remap around memory hole"
<hamitron> ah
<shauno> I don't care if the logs themselves are world-readable.  I can sudo grep.  but if the directory itself isn't readable, I can't
<hamitron> sudo cat /dir/file | less ................. doesn't work?
<shauno> sure.  if you can guess what the file is called
<hamitron> yhe :/
<hamitron> highest cpu tempt for me EVER.....
<hamitron> 40 C
<hamitron> :D
<hamitron> on this rig I mean
<shauno> what's the free driver for ati ?
<hamitron> crap?
<shauno> (eg, how do I use an ati card without the non-free driver)
<hamitron> ;D
<shauno> well, the non-free driver just gives me major display corruption.  but removing the non-free driver has left me with no X at all
<hamitron> xserver-xorg-video-ati?
<hamitron> there is a radeon one too
<hamitron> :s
<shauno> yeah.  I have both of those, still no go
<hamitron> what card?
<shauno> hm, something somewhere is still trying to load fglrx
<shauno> lspci says 'amd radeon hd 6600m series'
<shauno> should probably be trying to use the intel gpu, but I can't turn the ati one off when it's booted thru bios emulation :(
<shauno> so the string fglrx doesn't appear in /etc/X11/ or /usr/share/X11/xorg.conf.d/
<shauno> but startx just complains the module doesn't exist and dies
<hamitron> could you put something in the config to disable the driver ?
<shauno> no idea.  I'm not familiar enough with the format of xorg.conf to start one from scratch :/
<shauno> (and still mildly irked that the restricted-drivers UI nuked the conf I had.  means I need to set my trackpad up again next)
<hamitron> it is kinda rude
<shauno> if it wants to assume it owns the config, it should be using the conf.d instead of assuming ownership of the main configfile
<ali1234> argh mythtv cut the end off
<hamitron> :(
<hamitron> I dunno why the bbc can't just offer torrents
<hamitron> be easier
<hamitron> :/
<ali1234> i could just watch it on iplayer
<ali1234> but i see no reason to use up the bandwidth
<ali1234> and recording it off dvb is better quality anyway
<hamitron> iplayer killed my XP install last time, not trying it again
<hamitron> :/
<ali1234> just use the streaming flash version?
<hamitron> I use that grabber command line thing now
<hamitron> get-iplayer
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> ali1234: does that allow saving it?
<ali1234> no
<ali1234> why would you want to?
<hamitron> no good then :/
<hamitron> internet is too slow for streaming
<shauno> get-iplayer rocks.  I have it dumping into my dropbox, so I always have a folder full of things to watch at work :)
<hamitron> normally download, put on dvdrw, watch on tv in living room
<hamitron> better than sitting at comp desk
<hamitron> and it plays..... without pauses every 10 seconds
<hamitron> which is a bonus
<hamitron> ;)
<HazRPG> well okay, seems round 2 of getting natty to work is failing
<HazRPG> this is really annoying me now
<Who__> night all. Thanks for the help on bugs
<hamitron> nn Who__
<HazRPG> it won't work on my P4 machine (graphical stuff fails badly... even though I can tell it has fallen back to gnome classic)
<Who__> enjoy Doctor Who, everyone that hasn't seen it (hint: watch in dar room in empty house for full effect :P)
<hamitron> ali1234: I guess if you can stream from a mid-point, the end missing is not a huge isssue
<HazRPG> and now it won't even boot up off my core 2 duo laptop :/
<HazRPG> CD drive has been trying to read away furiously for the past 15 minutes
<ali1234> it takes ages to load
<hamitron> they should of delayed release a little longer.... long enough to test for a bit and warrent another release party ;)
<HazRPG> only took 4 mins to load on my P4, why should it take longer on my Core 2 Duo :/
<gord> delaying releases just puts pressure on the next release, never a good idea
<hamitron> gord, guess so :/
<penguin42> HazRPG: Dislike for your CD drive? More hardware to detect and complain about
<gord> i had tones of problems with the natty installer, booooo. ended up installing 10.10 and upgradin
<gord> upgrading*
<penguin42> installer problems are particularly nasty
<penguin42> if it can't get something installed to the point where people can then fix it, then that's a _bad_bug
<HazRPG> gord: Hmm, so what was the reasoning behind 6.06?
<hamitron> hehe, having to wipe the whole drive? ;/
<gord> 6.06 needed a lot of tender love and care and was an LTS
<gord> no one wanted to ship an LTS with bad translations and such
<hamitron> easy thing for testers to miss.... when they are not tainted by "other os"
<hamitron> ;)
<HazRPG> gord: Hmm, that makes sense I guess
<hamitron> I'm really worried about ubuntu atm tbh, I don't feel it is going in the direction I want since 8.04 :/
<JGJones> hamitron, I agree...it doesn't yet bloody iron my shirts.
<gord> ironing shirts is our *top* priority
<hamitron> haha
<hamitron> it maybe isn't going in a bad direction, just not what suites me personally
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> and part of me wants to stick with "the distro" of choice
<shauno> meh, I give up.  I'll just put fglrx back on and try to deal with the distorted display
<shauno> hah, that doesn't work either
<HazRPG> the only thing I'm disliking - although I dislike other peoples reasoning - is the fact that ubuntu/canonical are doing the "re-invent the wheel" thing. The problem with Linux as a whole is no one wants to support it because there's too many variations, and it took someone to point it out to me for me to realise this
<shauno> no idea what the restricted-drivers UI has done, but it's made a pretty nasty job of it
<hamitron> HazRPG: my reasoning for trying to stick to "the distro".... if a large number use this setup on their machines, commercial products will start to support it and appear
<HazRPG> hamitron: my reason is that too!
<HazRPG> hamitron: too much choice, comes with too many problems to try to support
<hamitron> yeh
<HazRPG> someone had to point this out to me
<HazRPG> and I can totally see why
<hamitron> I failed trying to convince someone last night
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> can't remember who it was
<HazRPG> lol
<HazRPG> ooo christ... desktop finally booted off the CD
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> HazRPG: I just wish the LTS was supported longer
<hamitron> ;)
<HazRPG> only taken ~30mins to boot :/
<shauno> NIH is good fun.  it's why we now have 3-4 variations of bootscripts :/
<HazRPG> shauno: NIH?
<shauno> I get 5 years out of LTS .. plenty long enough
<shauno> HazRPG: not invented here
<hamitron> shauno: 3 years on desktop
 * penguin42 realises it's May - wth happened to April?
<hamitron> I suppose it would be fine if everything didn't change so much
<hamitron> but that is not the fault of the distro
<HazRPG> shauno: heh, this is why I'm glad when I installed ubuntu-server on my home server that I put 10.04 and not 10.10 ;)
<shauno> 3 years isn't too bad.  gives you one year overlap to upgrade to the next LTS
<hamitron> yeh
<hamitron> but when xorg changes sooooooooo much it breaks things.....
<shauno> (unless you have an emotional attachment to machines too old to run the next LTS ;)
<hamitron> it is a nightmare
<exobuzz> my biggest problem with ubuntu server, was that they took debian mdadm, made it udev aware, and then didnt touch it for 2 years
<hamitron> shauno: doubt that ;)
<exobuzz> so mdadm got well out of sync with kernel features
<HazRPG> bah, I'm all for not supporting older gear, as long as the things that cause such things to happen can be justified!
<exobuzz> software raid on ubuntu has had tons of problems
<hamitron> my biggest problem with ubuntu server.... it won't boot on my server
<hamitron> ;D
<exobuzz> that's a minor issue ;-)
<exobuzz> hehe
<hamitron> 6.06, 8.04, 10.04........ all fail
<exobuzz> just to make sure, your server isn't a zx spectrum ?
<hamitron> it works with another kernel from slackware
<hamitron> works with debian kernel too
<HazRPG> hamitron: seriously ?
<hamitron> yep
<HazRPG> youch dude
<HazRPG> what did they change in the kernel :S:S:S:S
<HazRPG> or rather, what have they turned off :S
<hamitron> or maybe on
<hamitron> but debian does fine anyway
<hamitron> and slackware before that
<shauno> have you tried with a -386 kernel?
<hamitron> I can't remember
<hamitron> I did try more for 6.06 and 8.04
<hamitron> but when 10.04 did the same, I just gave up straight away
<shauno> ubuntu's 686 kernels are a bit funky.  they assume a couple of cpu flags that aren't actually in all 686's
<hamitron> could be it
<hamitron> it is a celeron.....
<HazRPG> I thought the i386 build... was just that :S
<HazRPG> or is the i386 build just a i686 build?
<shauno> the iso labelled 386 just generically means a 32bit x86
 * HazRPG recalls seeing something about ubuntu labeling i386 incorrectly
<hamitron> i386 should use less advanced instructions I'd hope
<hamitron> CentOS 5 does :(
<hamitron> I downloaded ALL the cd for it, then found it won't run on 586
<hamitron> haha
<hamitron> that was ubuntu's fault
<HazRPG> am I the only one to think the new scrollbar is hideous in natty? (I realise this is the liveCD and it is just using gnome-classic fallback)
<hamitron> well, x.org's fault
<exobuzz> HazRPG, can be removed
<shauno> iirc the 686 kernel assumes bigmem, and then the pae kernel does bigmem64.  not all 686 cpus will actually live up to that
<exobuzz> HazRPG, i dont like it either
<exobuzz> i like nothing of the new ubuntu "features"
<exobuzz> i know i complain a lot too.
<shauno> I'm actually liking gnome-shell, except when the ati drivers decide the toolbar would look better in neon pink
<HazRPG> I don't complain, I'd like to see WHY they did it... it doesn't make sense to just randomly change something without good reason, and I'm yet to see it
<JGJones> Personally I'm not complaining....Ubuntu is working fantastic on my old PC (it's an AMD Athlon 2800+ so that make it erm...well at least more than 5 years old)
<hamitron> JGJones: old? ;/
<HazRPG> JGJones: heh, need I show you my screenshot of what happened on my p4?
<JGJones> well I could complain that it's not installing on my RadioShack TRS-80 Model 4 Microcomputer
<exobuzz> HazRPG, with the "switching" the window icons, they had lots of reasons, and one was "they were to use the right hand size for something else". they never did
<exobuzz> felt like "excuses" to be to justify some "bad decisions"
<JGJones> ffs it comes with DUAL 5 and half inch floppy disk drives.
<hamitron> I expect ubuntu to run on any 686 comp, basically
<exobuzz> im not sure ubuntu listens to the users anymore tbh
<HazRPG> JGJones: have a look: https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/-tedGRcfQT4DIgUILLn1kQ?feat=directlink
<hamitron> ;/
<JGJones> HazRPG, that's from a LiveCD isn't it?
<HazRPG> exobuzz: oh heh, I loved that - as a concept being able to use the real-estate of the window title space seemed like fantastic reasoning - I remember reading that one! I loved that idea! But like you said, I'm yet to see anything of it
<HazRPG> JGJones: That's what it looked like on my P4, and yes it was a LiveCD.
<shauno> exobuzz: I think it listens, but only for a specific variant of 'user'
<hamitron> the ones that pay? ;)
<HazRPG> JGJones: Looks like the LiveCD is running fine on my Core 2 Duo laptop however.
<JGJones> HazRPG, I tend to get issues with LiveCD on my old PC, but the Natty one worked - however I've always used alternative install CD.
<JGJones> quicker
<shauno> hamitron: the hypothetical users that'll arrive when the "year of the linux desktop" actually occurs
<hamitron> alt cd ftw
<JGJones> and once installed, it doesn't behave the same as it does on LiveCD anyway.
<hamitron> shauno: :D
<HazRPG> JGJones: I always use Alt-CD as a thing, but when I'm really unsure about an install - I prefer to give it a test run inside of a LiveCD first
<exobuzz> heh
<hamitron> cli ftw
<HazRPG> tempted to whack natty onto a pen drive and see what happens
<JGJones> HazRPG, the ONLY problem with my old PC is that its original video card died - it was an ATI Radeon...um...9800? No idea...it was good when it was new! and so the only spare I had was the worst ATI card - Radeon 7000VE
<JGJones> so there's no accelrated anything, but Unity 2D works pretty well.
<JGJones> although will go on ebay and find a better replacement for AGP to replace the graphics.
<exobuzz> i wonder if anyone who "needs" the mouse accessibility features has tried natty. they will be disappointed https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/762806
<lubotu3`> Ubuntu bug 762806 in mousetweaks (Ubuntu Natty) "[regression] shipped mousetweaks (3.0) does not work with shipped control-center (2.32), needs downgrade" [High,Triaged]
<JGJones> if I remember right, I got my PC late 2002/ early 2003 I think it might be Nov/Dec 2002
<exobuzz> there was plenty of time to fix it before release. but no-one noticed in time
<shauno> oh wow.  battery usage is obscene :(
<JGJones> shauno, yup...I keep thinking my laptops need a replacement battery
<HazRPG> hmm, I might just try this as a proper install on my laptop - I don't use my laptop for much these days anyway - but I defo aint trying this on my development system at all though - not unless I can warrant a good reason for it
<JGJones> well the macbook does need a new battery...it's dead as a dodo.
<shauno> it's estimating just shy of 2 hours. I get 9 under osx
<HazRPG> I'm all for giving things the benefit of the doubt (I did when the flipped my window icons around!)
<exobuzz> do you have to send your macbook back to apple with Â£200 to get a new battery or do they allow you to replace them yourselves these days ?
<shauno> depends how old 'old' is, which odd shape screwdrivers you own, and how attached you are to your warranty
<exobuzz> heh
<HazRPG> okay, well that's a weird place to put a "System Settings" option :S
<shauno> HazRPG: hah, yeah I noticed that.  did wonder if they're aware that icon has a very specific meaning
<JGJones> that remind me...doesn't the newer mac's come with a newer better "awesome-built-in" designed screws?
<exobuzz> apple hardware might be ok, but how do they get away with "2.4GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
<exobuzz> 2.66GHz Intel Core 2 Duo [+ Â£123.00] "
<exobuzz> etc
<exobuzz> 2GB 1066MHz DDR3 SDRAM - 2x1GB
<exobuzz> 4GB 1066MHz DDR3 SDRAM - 2x2GB [+ Â£80.00]
<exobuzz> 8GB 1066MHz DDR3 SDRAM - 2x4GB [+ Â£240.00]
<exobuzz> having a laugh!
<shauno> their bto options are always stir crazy.  always have been :/
<JGJones> exobuzz, Apple have very very GOOD marketing team....there's plenty of people that would pay those prices.
<exobuzz> s/people/idiots
<exobuzz> :)
<JGJones> after all...it's Apple.
<hamitron> do apple let you upgrade memory yourself?
<shauno> yes
<hamitron> that is ok then
<exobuzz> you need a credit card to replace ram on mac mini.
<exobuzz> to open the case up
<exobuzz> heh
<JGJones> Those RAM upgrade are pre-selected by virgin handmaidens, and kissed by Job himself, and quite frankly, you don't understand the technical stuff behind it so leave it to us :D
<exobuzz> JGJones, lol
<shauno> the new ones are a lot better for that.  the old minis were never intended to be opened :/
<JGJones> shauno, oh yes they was meant to be.
<JGJones> You just needed an Apple iHammer.
<exobuzz> ive opened up a few of em
<hamitron> iHammer
<hamitron> haha
<exobuzz> replace hds etc
<exobuzz> hehe
<exobuzz> i got a ppc one here.. i just replaced the dead hd with another dead hd. doh
<JGJones> mind you...Apple hardware are pretty well made
<JGJones> I just don't like OSX or the stupid pricing.
<hamitron> just a shame they are out of my budget :/
<shauno> the old ones were horrible.  step1 was trying to remove the rubber mat with a wallpaper scraper :/
<exobuzz> mac users like to forget when mac os was sh*te
<shauno> yes
<exobuzz> they rewrite history
<shauno> macos was aweful 10 years ago
<shauno> the big difference is, it's had 10 years worth of improvements
<JGJones> exobuzz, pff...no you're wrong...they do not rewrite history...
<JGJones> there is no history until Apple does it.
<shauno> as I sit here trying to get X working in natty, I can tell you linux hasn't actually moved on since 1998 at all
<hamitron> shauno: it has moved back....
<exobuzz> every forum needs this mac smiley http://malus.exotica.org.uk/~buzz/mac.gif
<exobuzz> :)
<hamitron> now it doesn't have a .conf file to edit \o/
<JGJones> I look forward to Wayland
<exobuzz> JGJones, :)
<shauno> it used to be people laughed at apple
<shauno> now they bash them like crazy because they're winning
<hamitron> what annoys me.... Apple are actually more restrictive than MS
<JGJones> shauno, true. Although I personally don't like OSX myself, but what piss me off is really Apple marketing.
<hamitron> so I use linux, wanting a better computing market
<shauno> hamitron: how so ?
<hamitron> and Apple are gaining
<exobuzz> i find mac users overly smug and annoying. and most of em can't actually even use their computer, although they would have you believe they are experts :) they deserve all the bashing they get :)
<hamitron> shauno: telling you the hardware to run their OS on
<HazRPG> shauno: bah, that really confused me because I clicked it by mistake... since the last option has always been "shutdown" ... and my eye had skimmed over the word "shutdown" took me a second to realise something was opening instead of shutting down
<JGJones> they make damn good hardware, and OSX is...um...I suppose it's good (just not my cup of tea) but Apple marketing...argh.
<JGJones> especially that line "Think Different"
<hamitron> if they let you use OSX on custom hardware, I may not mind so much
<JGJones> ffs...every bloody iOS devices LOOK THE SAME.
<JGJones> same grid layout etc
<shauno> hamitron: if they let you use osx on random hardware, it'd completely negate the 'just works' thing
<shauno> you'd have crazy people trying to run it on 200MHz SiS chips and asking why it doesn't work
<JGJones> they're just clones...how are they thinking different when they're just part of a clone army? :)
<hamitron> shauno: yes, I don't expect the same level of support
<shauno> it doesn't matter if they don't support it.  it still makes it look sloppy
<JGJones> or that they're first with anything new.
<shauno> JGJones: catch there.  they are first
<JGJones> Facetime is one - I've had people telling me that Apple was the FIRST to do video calling.
<hamitron> using different shaped screws is another.....
<shauno> like intel's lightpeak / thunderbolt bus.  has anyone else got that to market yet?
<hamitron> how am i to take it apart and clean the dust out, before it overheats and melts?
<JGJones> Despite that I've been using video calling over 3G on a Sony Ericsson many years before.
<shauno> hamitron: my laptop opens with a philips screwdriver.  you're inventing things again
<hamitron> I read they are stopping people opening them
<JGJones> and the last straw was...a mate I was talking to - I've done video calling with him (he had a Nokia)....and he geninuely believe that Apple is the FIRST to do video calls via Facetime.
<shauno> they're actually getting easier to open
<JGJones> wtf/
<shauno> since ram & hdd are meant to be user-servicable, and there isn't a door in the bottom to get to them anymore, they've actually made the bottom easier to remove than previous bodies
<JGJones> show him fring doing video calls on Android over 3G. He's telling me...nah, Apple did it first...let me find a hotspot...
<exobuzz> remember that early apple advert by ridley scott? with apple users being the "individual". now its almost the opposite with the apples being the drones
<JGJones> Think Different? I did, I got Ubuntu :)
<exobuzz> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HhsWzJo2sN4
<shauno> have they actually used the think different tagline in the last 10 years?
<JGJones> the best advert was the 1984 one.
<hamitron> shauno: I do get the Apple way, and understand how it could work.... just don't like 1 company regulating everything
<exobuzz> JGJones, thats the one im on about
<shauno> the fun thing is, there's plenty of technical reasons to hate apple on
<JGJones> oh...didn't realise that was by Ridley Scott.
<exobuzz> yeh
<shauno> apparently no-one actually knows them, and just keeps rehashing random crap they've heard from other trolls
<HazRPG> bah, why do people bash Apple so! They're geniuses in their own right!
<JGJones> heh true...
<hamitron> the bios is supposed to be weird?
<shauno> there is no bios
<exobuzz> they say 1984 wont be like 1984.. funny that. with all their "restrictions" on their store.. seems a bit big brother to me
<hamitron> well, however it works
<hamitron> it is different :/
<JGJones> and that location tracking thing?
<JGJones> "oh the users doesn't understand the technical stuff"
<hamitron> location tracking is fine, until they sell the info to ya gf ;)
<HazRPG> despite the fact that I could never afford one, and the polish they do to it just isn't to my taste, and the keyboard and mouse clicks drive me insane on skype, (I'd hate to see what happens if I actually own one) - but as a concept, as a true idea... they are geniuses!
<shauno> yes it's different.  they use uefi, which is actually a modern standard.  PCs are going the same way too, just much slower
<exobuzz> i have uefi on my pc
<exobuzz> (and efi on the joggler)
<JGJones> I have...um...BIOS!
<JGJones> it's awesome.
<hamitron> my main problem is the cost of them
<hamitron> :/
<JGJones> it haven't failed me...yet ;-)
<exobuzz> i have "kickstart" too on my other pc ;-)
<exobuzz> amiga pc of course. heh.
<JGJones> Had a A500 myself
<JGJones> it's dead.
<shauno> bios is 80's legacy.  you wouldn't purposely design a platform with it today.  so they didn't.
<exobuzz> <3 a500
<exobuzz> dead ?
<exobuzz> nooOoOooOo
<hamitron> shauno: I agree they are forward thinking
<JGJones> the A500 should never be used as a frisbee by a upset brother.
<hamitron> and they make some good stuff
<exobuzz> *sniff*. rip
<JGJones> However the Spectrum 48K survived just about anything.
<shauno> hamitron: it's not so much forward thinking.  they just have no attachment to any of the legacy PC stuff, because they never ran on them in the first place
<exobuzz> JGJones, rubber one just bounced around the room ?
<exobuzz> ok. only the keys were rubber but
<shauno> so they can jump straight into the new toys without having to support things that should have been wiped out years ago
<HazRPG> holy cow, my laptop just had a screen spasm! *goes to attend to it quickly*
<JGJones> exobuzz, aye...well the metal casing did fly apart, but just glued it back together...it still worked.
<hamitron> shauno: there is no reason others can't, is there?
<JGJones> No longer have it as my father found it in his attic and instead of asking me, gave it away
<shauno> hamitron: problem with legacy stuff is people still use it
<HazRPG> this isn't cool!
<exobuzz> JGJones, i got an old workbench screengrab from 13 years ago from my a1200 http://malus.exotica.org.uk/~buzz/wb.png seems small on a modern screen
<HazRPG> my laptop is having a mega fit!
<exobuzz> 16 cols
<hamitron> I am surprised they haven't made a jump when things started to go 64 bit
<hamitron> drop old tech then
<shauno> I really hoped x86_64 would have no 32bit compatibility.  then they really could have made a clean break
<hamitron> yeh
<hamitron> intel tried it :/
<hamitron> they were maybe too early
<exobuzz> hamitron, ia64 ? or so
<hamitron> yeh
<exobuzz> they are killing that off now right ?
<shauno> that's what apple gain from being draconian about their hardware
<hamitron> I think so
<shauno> they can make clean breaks like that, and have everything else move with it.  because they control the lot
<hamitron> but can you upgrade something like a graphics card?
<HazRPG> shauno: agreed
<hamitron> without it been picky
<shauno> that I'm not sure about, don't have a mac pro.  not that rich :)
<HazRPG> the only reason I stick to my old hardware that I do, is because I'm too cheap to buy whole sets of everything lol
<hamitron> they sell a computer as a product itself, not a load of bits put together with some software slapped on it
<exobuzz> old hardware ftw
<hamitron> far better for the end user
<HazRPG> my development/machine I always use, is always upgrade constantly... everything else sits on the backbench
<shauno> exobuzz: 640x512?  you should get yourself an indivision card for it :)
<exobuzz> shauno, heh, or a 24 bit graphics card perhaps :)
<shauno> hamitron: it's not.  it's far better for tinkerers.  it's not far better for users
<hamitron> shauno: I think Apple products are better for teh average user that doesn't tinker
<exobuzz> shauno, ive given jens far too much of my money already. last was the catweasel and the software wasnt "completed". he always does that. cool hardware with unfinished software
<exobuzz> i might buy his a500 accelerator though
<jibadeeha> ia64 is a rubbish chip .. and now end of the line
<shauno> I've had no problem with mine
<HazRPG> hamitron: I disagree, Apple products are fine for all users... Apple products are just not good for those that want to constantly swap out hardware
<exobuzz> shauno, with your cataweasel ?
<hamitron> HazRPG: hence why apple stuff is not good for tinkering?
<shauno> nah, my indivision aga
<HazRPG> exobuzz: hmm catweasel sounds familiar... what's the jens?
<exobuzz> aah ok
<exobuzz> http://www.jschoenfeld.com/home/indexe.htm
<shauno> http://www.flickr.com/photos/blakespot/4303654566/
<exobuzz> shauno, well, thats more hardware than software i guess. but yeh its the best option for flicker fixing (plus some extras)
<shauno> not my pics, but that's the board I've got.  1024x768 is lovely :)
<HazRPG> hamitron: yeah but if you tinker with software, terminal, external devices... then your fine with apple products though - those are all tinkerers too
<exobuzz> ive actually got a bvisionppc in my a1200, cept i had a short with it recently and some smoke was made so i have to take it apart
<hamitron> HazRPG: I don't call that tinkering, I call that end user use :)
<shauno> no ppc, can't stomach the prices the leeches have on ebay
<HazRPG> when I say tinker with software I meant programmers ;)
<exobuzz> http://malus.exotica.org.uk/~buzz/a1200/ http://malus.exotica.org.uk/~buzz/a1200/img_4537.jpg http://malus.exotica.org.uk/~buzz/a1200/IMG_4312.JPG
<exobuzz> my a1200..
<shauno> got an 040 and some more ram in it, but can't justify the ppc
<HazRPG> and as for external devices, I was referring to developer boards
<hamitron> HazRPG: I just don't count that as tinkering with the comp
<shauno> apple really sell to the people who expect to buy something, turn it on, and use it
<hamitron> it is technical use
<shauno> not the people who want to get in there with a rubber mallet
<hamitron> yeh
<HazRPG> besides, I'm sure the Apple version of PC's have expansion bays/ports on their PC line-up though
<exobuzz> shauno, Â£132 for an indivision. not cheap is it !
<shauno> it's not :(
<shauno> did make a lovely start to a virgin 1200 tho
<hamitron> HazRPG: it used to be the case, you had to get specific graphics card chipsets
<shauno> means it'll run with a regular vga monitor, instead of having to find something that'll scan down to 15khz
<hamitron> because of drivers in OSX
<hamitron> not sure now
<shauno> pretty sure that's still the case.  seems popular to buy the PC variant and flash it with the right firmware to turn it into the mac variant  hehe
<HazRPG> hamitron: I think a lot of companies do actually make Mac drivers too now
<hamitron> yeh
<hamitron> but MS Windows is more open to custom setups and drivers
<shauno> that's been getting much better since steam came out.  being able to benchmark games against the pc variant on the same hardware has really shook up the video support
<hamitron> and linux
<hamitron> :D
<HazRPG> feel bad for my laptop... seems the LiveCD was fine... but the install is going well and truly mental
<HazRPG> :(
<hamitron> but I would get a Mac notebook without a worry, I don't expect to tinker with a notebook so much
<hamitron> but the people I want to bash most......
<hamitron> X.org :/
<hamitron> moving forward so fast and dropping support for old ways of doing stuff
<HazRPG> poor graphical support?
<hamitron> well, it is the breaking compatibility that bugs me
<hamitron> I'd have liked them to offer a compile option to choose old functionality
<shauno> I would say Xorg need to move forward fast, but I think the reality is, Xorg needs to be taken out back & shot
<hamitron> yeh
<hamitron> but why not offer that retro option?
<hamitron> ;)
<shauno> X is the retro option
<hamitron> the code is there and working
<HazRPG> X.org is too old to just move forward, its only going to move forward if someone starts it from scratch
<hamitron> X?
<shauno> X11 is designed for timesharing machines.  how much more retro can it get?
<ali1234> http://a17.video2.blip.tv/10220007704613/Linuxconfau-XAndTheFutureOfLinuxGraphics549.ogv?brs=675&bri=19.4
<hamitron> it needs to keep the old methods to do stuff, so old drivers can work
<hamitron> the way things are going, MS provide support for older hardware for longer
<hamitron> :/
<ali1234> putting all the drivers into xorg is part of why it sucks
<hamitron> 10 years ago, linux was a system to replace windows on aging hardware
<HazRPG> agreed
<ali1234> 10 years ago linux was for neeeeeeeeeeeeerds
<shauno> hamitron: not any more.  these days, xp is the option for computers too old to run linux :p
<hamitron> and now it is for who?
<hamitron> shauno: plenty of old comps, ideal to break into the market
<shauno> as I said.  it's for the hypothetical users that'll appear during the year of the linux desktop
<hamitron> appears so
<hamitron> but for all these resources it takes, it is not doing a very good job is it? ;/
<shauno> nope.  but that doesn't matter, because it's not the year of the linux desktop yet :)
<hamitron> also, you need the "nerds" to keep it going imo
<ali1234> 10 years ago linux didn't even have working USB
<ali1234> or wifi
<ali1234> you were lucky if your printer even worked
<ali1234> no 3d acceleration
<hamitron> linux was fine 10 years ago :/
<ali1234> no, it was rubbish
<shauno> printing should be much better now that you're using apple's cupsys :p
<ali1234> pretty much everything good on linux today was written by (or written under contract for) either apple or nokia
<hamitron> it has got easier, yeh, but it has also got wasteful
<shauno> I'm curious to see what license apple's replacement for samba is going to be under
<HazRPG> *cracks open a bottle of bud*
<hamitron> :)
<ali1234> 10 years ago i was using fvwm95
<ali1234> it really really sucked
<ali1234> but it was the best thing available
<hamitron> I liked Gnome 1.x tbh
<hamitron> :)
<jibadeeha> i remember my first slackware cd (walnut creek or something) ... got it with a book and loved it.. couldn't get X to work for a few years
<ali1234> haha same
<HazRPG> I have a feeling my stand on getting natty to work is going to be an all-nighter job... and waking up in the morning with a bottle of bud in one hand, a screwdriver in the other, tears and blood on my shirt... and a computer taken to bits lying on the floor xD
<ali1234> even when you did get it to work you got twm
<HazRPG> here we go *opens first bottle*
<shauno> I didn't mind gnome 1.x with ximian gnome.  stock, it was pretty dire
<ali1234> because there was no login manager back then
<hamitron> I don't use a login manager now :D
<shauno> most the time I just stuck to blackbox, because I only really used X for opera
<jibadeeha> windowmaker was my fav window manager .. somewhat like unity i guess
<ali1234> if you were lucky enough to have a motherboard with supported usb... you would plug something in and... nothing would happen, because there was no hardware manager
<hamitron> usb is over rated
<ali1234> you'd have to be root and then mount your usb flash drive manually
<ali1234> back then, most distros couldn't even install packages from the internet
<hamitron> but most of us had 56k modems.....
<ali1234> you had to download them one at a time and install them manually... doing your own dependency resolution
<shauno> yeah.  hyperbole much?
<ali1234> the only way to get your packages from the internet was to install debian
<ali1234> which had zero documentation
<HazRPG> shauno: overly so
<shauno> 10 years ago I had debian potato, and apt-get worked just fine :)
<ali1234> so everyone used red hat or slackware
<jibadeeha> i remember being able to install from slackware cd but once installed it was a pain to get my external ide cd working
<hamitron> suse docs were all German though ;/
<HazRPG> shauno: potato! \o/
<HazRPG> shauno: I'm in space :)
<ali1234> i tried to install debian back then but it would always crash out in the middle of the installer
<ali1234> because back then even the installers were crap and would fall over if you looked at them the wrong way
<hamitron> redhat was good
<hamitron> so was slackware
<hamitron> :/
<shauno> apt-cd worked just fine too, so I'd buy the release from linuxemporium, apt-cd the disks, and just use online repos for updates
<HazRPG> T_____T redhat
<ali1234> maybe i'm thinking of 15 years ago
<ali1234> when pcs didn't have cdroms
<ali1234> and you had to install from 200 floppies
<hamitron> ali1234: it is easy to look back too far
<HazRPG> I recall how slow cdroms use to be T_T
<shauno> 15 years ago, slackware 3.3's installer was resilient enough that it was quite happy to let me using both floppy drives in lieu of having enough ram to ramdisk off the first disk
<HazRPG> damn sight faster than floppies were
<HazRPG> but was still just as slow to get anything going on it
<shauno> it complained about wanting 4Mb of ram, but it'd handle less with multiple floppy drives :)
<hamitron> slackware worked on 4Mb ram upto 11.0
<hamitron> just
<hamitron> ;)
<HazRPG> old hardware needs to die at some point :P
<hamitron> NEVER
<jibadeeha> i remember buying freebsd 4.x ... reminded me very much of slackware
<HazRPG> hamitron: oh don't worry, my c64 is safe for now ^_^
<ali1234> i didn't even have an ide cdrom until about 2002
<shauno> really, linux wasn't that bad 10 years.  all it's really done since is enjoyed design-by-comittee
<hamitron> I got my first cdrom drive in 1995
<shauno> it's basically done nothing interesting since freedesktop.org appeared
<HazRPG> ali1234: I had one that came with a laptop back in 1998
<ali1234> i had a cdrom drive in 1995 that plugged into the sound card and didn't work in anything except windows 3.1
<HazRPG> (I say laptop, it might as well have been a sack of potatoes!)
<hamitron> mine was ide
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> 2x \o/
<ali1234> the whole sound card didn't work in linux, there's a suprise
<HazRPG> ali1234: I'm still yet to see that sound card link-up actually do anything!
<jibadeeha> i remember buying my ide cdrom drive from Morgan computers in Manchester ... needless to say end of the line product ... but it was the best thing since slice bread
<HazRPG> ali1234: I've never ONCE managed to get it to do what it was meant to do :/
<hamitron> 13 years ago I was able to get EVERYTHING working on linux, with some comfig editing
<shauno> pretty sure the cd player app in windows was the only thing I could ever get to actually play audio straight off the disk
<hamitron> :/
<jibadeeha> olvwm was my favourite window manager of all time though
 * HazRPG edits hamitron's sentence to bold and make 20px the "some comfig editing" then corrects comfig with config!
<jibadeeha> i use to use it on a Sun Sparc
<hamitron> ty HazRPG ;)
<shauno> which is what that cable was doing; offloaded the pcm->audio conversion onto the drive itself
<ali1234> i managed to build a linux server where "everything" worked
<ali1234> by buying random components and trying them until i found one that worked
<hamitron> ali1234: this was my desktop machine
<ali1234> i never got sound working except through the pc speaker driver
<HazRPG> hamitron: haha, but its true... linux is more about the config than it is about getting it to just work, and it saddens me ;(
<shauno> I swear sound on linux has actually got worse
<ali1234> ha ha ha
<ali1234> no
<HazRPG> shauno: ? I don't have any issues with sound
<jibadeeha> shauno, got better for me
<hamitron> Sound Blaster 16 ftw ;)
<ali1234> it was only a couple of years ago that i was able to have two different programs playing sound
<shauno> it used to be I'd just remove esound, rebuild the kernel with oss and no alsa, and be happy
<hamitron> I never try to listen to 2 songs at once :/
<ali1234> i never saw oss work correctly ever
<shauno> now there's so many layers of abstraction that I have no idea what's going on where
<jibadeeha> blah djhfdkishfwiufhiuehiw
<HazRPG> hamitron: yeah, but the point isn't to listen to 2 songs at once, the point is some applications try to beep at you for attention
<ali1234> something would always lock /dev/audio and then no more sound
<ali1234> or /dev/dsp i think it was called
<hamitron> ok, so it wasn't as good in some ways..... but it was more fun
<hamitron> ;/
<shauno> I really didn't use X for much, so all I needed oss to do was mpg123
<shauno> preferably without esd pretending to be clever, and ending up being 'special' instead
<hamitron> hmmmm
<ali1234> thinking about it my computer wasn't good enough to play mp3s until about 2002 either
<HazRPG> does esd actually work now??
<hamitron> I am half tempted to do linuxfromscratch again
<shauno> hopefully, esd doesn't exist now
<HazRPG> I recall tinkering with wine, some linux games and esd at one point... and it all failed miserably
<shauno> if it does, it should be shot, followed by whoever's been keeping it alive
<hamitron> oh, wine is amazing now
<hamitron> :)
<HazRPG> ali1234: that video link you sent only just started to play >_<
<ali1234> well download it then it's html5
<ali1234> it's about 45 minutes long
 * hamitron gave up on it
<ali1234> get decent internet
<HazRPG> ali1234: ah no I mean its been streaming this whole time (uses chrome remember)
<ali1234> and proper computers
<ali1234> geez
<shauno> the trick was oss was just to have a sensible card :)  sblive or sb16.
<hamitron> lol ali1234
<HazRPG> hamitron: wine is amazing now ;D - I finished portal 2 in wine ;)
<hamitron> shauno: sblive was out?
<hamitron> :-o
<HazRPG> ali1234: I have as fast as I can for my area, and that's 10Mbps
<shauno> sblive is pretty ancient.  I got one with the first PC I had that didn't have an isa bus (which was the end of my sb16)
<HazRPG> ali1234: I think its because my laptop is still flickering in the background trying to install 11.04
<hamitron> oh, my first linux pc had no pci
<hamitron> :/
<shauno> heh, ditto.  but I did upgrade eventually :p
<hamitron> my biggest problem was my serial mouse
<ali1234> my first linux pc didn't even have eisa
<shauno> mid-90s my PC was pretty shocking, because I did all my gaming on the miggy, so really saw no point in upgrading the PC
<hamitron> com1 was called com2 for some reason.... iirc, there was some onboard modem
<shauno> so I had a 386sx16 well into 96-97
<hamitron> my first was P120
<hamitron> :)
<ali1234> haha yeah remember the fun of getting your modem working on linux?
<shauno> never had a problem with that, at all
<hamitron> I bought a proper modem
<hamitron> ;)
<ali1234> first you have to figure out which com port it is on
<ali1234> then write the ppp scripts yourself
<shauno> you buy a modem.  not a soundcard.  sorted.
<hamitron> yeh
<hamitron> ali1234: but it was fun!!!!!!!!!
<shauno> internal modem = soundcard on drugs
<ali1234> then every time you want to go online you had to open a shell, login as root, and run pppd by hand
<hamitron> yep
<shauno> wvdial :)
<hamitron> and then I found diald
<ali1234> and then after it connected, set the ip and dns servers manually, because ppp didn't support msdns back then
<hamitron> to automate it
<hamitron> and I ended up with a huge phone bill :/
<shauno> we did freeserve's 15 quid a month thing
<shauno> so they disconnected you every two hours, but you didnt' pay per-minute
<hamitron> my phone bill was Â£580 something for a quarter :/
<HazRPG> hamitron: ouch >_<
<shauno> (they didn't intentionally disconnect you on the 'free' plan, because they got to milk the per-minute that way)
<hamitron> I lost the use of the phone line for a while
<hamitron> shauno: they didn't have the 15 quid at first iirc
<shauno> I didn't get online till 98/99
<hamitron> ah, I got online about 4 months before freeserve started
<hamitron> then switched to them to save the monthly payment
<hamitron> :)
<shauno> didn't get online until I started college.  couldn't justify it to the parents before that :)
<hamitron> I was allowed 1 hour per week
<hamitron> :D
<shauno> but once I started college, getting the internet at home was the only way I'd leave the college library before they closed
<hamitron> hehe
<hamitron> the firewall in linux was a hassle as well, just remembered
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> until ipchains appeared anyway
<shauno> never really used the firewall
<shauno> tried bastile a few times later on, but never really firewalled on dialup
<shauno> never seemed any point to it on dialup.  connection was so slow that if you came under any form of attack, the line dropped dead
<hamitron> I didn't get into firewalling until free calls on dialup, but then I was disconnected too often, and always had trouble with the Ip changing
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> and been a newb, had no clue where to start
<hamitron> had to just mod the script by hand each time
<hamitron> :/
<shauno> I tried bastille a few times when I was admining on opennap networks, but all it seemed to do was drop icmp
<shauno> I'd still drop off line at the slightest sneeze
<hamitron> :\
<shauno> when you're on 56k, ddos really doesn't need two D's :p
<hamitron> fun times! :D
<hamitron> hehe
<hamitron> yeh
<hamitron> I remember really wanting 64k isdn :/
<hamitron> but line cost too much
<shauno> used to work for a guy who had two 128k lines bonded
<hamitron> isdn on linux was not so easy either
<shauno> scary thing is, that was 2004-5.  he was just very rural
<hamitron> hehe
<hamitron> tbh
<hamitron> dialup is more reliable imo
<shauno> eh
<shauno> noo, that's just crazy talk.  imo :p
<hamitron> haha
<HazRPG> wait, did you just say dialup was reliable!?
<HazRPG> *falls over in laughter*
<hamitron> when i switched to demon internet, stayed online fine for 6 hours each night
<shauno> we used to have that voicemail thing that BT offered, that was hosted at their end, rather than having a box with a tape at your end
<HazRPG> shauno: heh, we had that too
<shauno> it let you know you had a message waiting by pulsing the dialtone, instead of having a constant dialtone
<HazRPG> shauno: just because I was online all the time xD
<shauno> so freeserve would disconnect us every 2 hours, like clockwork
<HazRPG> shauno: same xD
<shauno> then the modem would fail to find the dialtone because someone had left a message.  so I had to go downstairs, listen to the message, then go back and redial
<hamitron> them cutoffs were a pain with "large" downloads :/
<HazRPG> hamitron: download managers \o/
<shauno> the modems actually limit how many times you can unsuccessfully redial the same number.  they have to in the UK, to earn the green dot mark
<shauno> so if you fell asleep with the internet connected, and someone left a message, the modem would blacklist the isp's number after x many failed redials
<hamitron> HazRPG: I was young and learning
<HazRPG> hamitron: so was I!
<shauno> dialup was pants.  not even rose-tinted glasses can hide that one.
<hamitron> you can't have known about download managers at first?
<HazRPG> hamitron: I'm only 24 dude :P
<HazRPG> hamitron: I use to beg my dad to get me computer magazines every month or so
<HazRPG> hamitron: came on a CD one time
<HazRPG> along with a web crawler!
<hamitron> ah :)
<shauno> wget will resume from most sensible hosts quite nicely.
<hamitron> my early days were on win95
<hamitron> :/
<shauno> -c -N -t 0 -T 60 seemed to survive redials
<HazRPG> web crawler was my demise on the internet >_< cos all my questions could be asked and answers be had... after being online for several hours at a time
<shauno> never had 95. had 3.1, and then skipped windows entirely until XP
<shauno> never saw a point to it.  my amiga gamed better than most my PCs
<hamitron> it was the download "manager" in IE 3 I recall
<hamitron> oh, I had sega rally
<hamitron> :)
<shauno> eg, dune2 in dos, wanted some stupid amount of base ram
<hamitron> yeh
<shauno> I could never seem to get the mouse _and_ the sound working at the same time, without using too much ram
<hamitron> I remember having to make sure my autoexec.bat didn't have too much in :/
<shauno> worked fine on my amiga :)
<shauno> despite the PC having 8 times as much ram
<hamitron> conventional memory?
<shauno> no, 4 .. had the 500+
<shauno> no, you can't change the base ram :(
<hamitron> my first pc didn't have the himem.sys loaded to use memory above 640k in dos
<hamitron> that stumped me for ages
<shauno> that aperture between 640 and 720 is completely unavoidable
<shauno> it's crazy stuff like that, which is why the bios needs to die :p
<HazRPG> ali1234: that video is interesting btw
<hamitron> haha
<hamitron> Apple <3 ;/
<shauno> I think efi is intel's baby
<hamitron> tbh, most old stuff is broken now, so may was well dump it
<HazRPG> efi is intel's baby xD
<HazRPG> which is why it baffles me that their motherboards don't use it as standard yet :S
<hamitron> I'd like to see native 3d acceleration in an emulated environment in the new systems
<shauno> seems to be a recurring theme on the macs.  most the crazy things are implementations of things intel have come up with, and everyone else has been slow to adopt
<hamitron> well, I've gone USB 3.0
<hamitron> ;/
<hamitron> not doing that other thing
<HazRPG> shauno: ppc was IBM though wasn't it?
<shauno> I'm waiting to get my hands on a tb drive enclosure :D
<shauno> and moto
<hamitron> I just feel USB 3.0 will be more popular
<shauno> it probably will
<hamitron> not as good ofc
<shauno> it's basically going to be usb vs firewire all over again
<shauno> you have usb to run the cheap plastic toys you're buying from china
<shauno> and firewire for grown-up applications that actually need to use the bus properly
<hamitron> esata I think could be the main problem for USB 3.0
<HazRPG> can't believe how long its taking to do an upgrade to 11.04 T_T
<shauno> esata's too specific
<hamitron> most things that need the extra usb speed can use it though?
<hamitron> for most people
<shauno> the whole reason usb thrives is because you can plug pretty much anything into it
<ali1234> how do i get apps running in vnc or xephyr to show a menu bar?
<shauno> you can stick monitors on usb.  with 3, you could actually stick half-decent monitors on usb
<hamitron> does USB 3.0 support USB 1.1?
<shauno> it should do
<hamitron> I've only read 2.0
<HazRPG> ali1234: am I right in thinking that intel want to actually finally change X.org ?
<hamitron> but that may be because they've forgotten about 1.1
<hamitron> :)
<shauno> heh, they can't forget about 1.1
<ali1234> i dunno
<shauno> most keyboards & mice use 1.1.  if you just stop supporting people's keyboards, they'll notice
<hamitron> shauno: guess so
<hamitron> shauno: my reason for thinking is, will they just replace all USB 2.0 ports with 3.0?
<shauno> it's not like it's just some random junk tech from the 80s that sensible people don't use anymore
<shauno> my understanding is that it's been designed specifically to allow that, yes
<hamitron> 80s junk tech? ;/
<shauno> I mean they can't just ignore 1.1 because <0.1% of users actually use it
<hamitron> hmmm, dunno
<shauno> because most keyboards use it, the userbase is suprisingly high
<hamitron> IT industry seems happy to break something for < 5% of users
<shauno> yes
<shauno> and they should be
<shauno> else we'd all be using 486's still because they'd be too scared to add pentium instructions
<hamitron> I seem to always be in that minority ;/
<shauno> what I'm saying is, usb1.1 is not a minority, at all
<hamitron> yeh, so it makes sense
<hamitron> I am just hoping I can get a fast usb 3.0 device, that is bootable
<hamitron> :D
<hamitron> or a few
<hamitron> remove all the hdd from my comp, when I get a small case
<HazRPG> woo! finally upgrade, god help me this boots successfully when it restarts
<HazRPG> upgraded*
<HazRPG> ah, holy cow it works
<HazRPG> although my existing UI theme fails
<HazRPG> and dropbox
<HazRPG> ooo no, that's just way too confusing
<HazRPG> *tries to figure out where my minimized application disappeared to*
<HazRPG> also, why does the global menu just hide away until you hover over it :S
<exobuzz> ubuntu natty (final) for the o2 joggler http://joggler.exotica.org.uk/ubuntu/
<shauno> because the person who designed the global menu, has never used a global menu
<exobuzz> including xbmc/squeezeplay and vaapi enabled mplayer
<shauno> (may or may not be true, but is the only sensible reason I can think of :)
<HazRPG> ooo wow, I must say the extra screen-real-estate is a bonus though for maximized stuff
<exobuzz> the global menu is really handy on a small window at the bottom right of the screen on 1920x1080 display. great to get all the extra exercise with my mouse hand
<HazRPG> now that I like
<ali1234> ha ha apport is now popping up an error saying "please don't report bugs without going through tech support"
<ali1234> there's an option that says "yes tech support refered me here"
<HazRPG> however I wish the menu bar was still there and did that only when you fullscreened
<shauno> that's awesome.  one of my gripes with ubuntu is it feels like there is no support anymore
<ali1234> unfortunately there's no option that says "i asked tech support but my question was ignored or nobody new the answer"
<exobuzz> i have no global menu enabled now. ubuntu classic all the way. and if they remove ubuntu classic, ill go back to linux mint again
<shauno> no-one wants to help you fix things.  they just want you to file a bug and leave them alone
<ali1234> now they don't even want you to file a bug
<shauno> it's a silly gripe, but I really don't like the icon top-right
<HazRPG> exobuzz: ubuntu classic is being taken out in 11.10 according to mark shuttleworth... he posted on a bug about that
<shauno> that symbol is actually part of a standard.  it specifically means standby.  an off state that consumes a lot less power, but >0 power.
<exobuzz> yeh. so i read. nice
<exobuzz> force the user . remove their choice heh
<HazRPG> exobuzz: and here was me thinking linux was about choice xD
<shauno> the zero means off, the 1 means on, 1 inside a zero means on/off, and a zero broken by the one means standby.  it's an IEEE standard.  not a fun icon to stick settings behind.
<exobuzz> HazRPG, ubuntu wants to be the next apple ;-)
<HazRPG> exobuzz: I can understand WHY they want to get rid of choice (ubuntu one market place, etc... they won't get software developers in, if things are tightened down) but still silly things like classic should remain at least
<exobuzz> they are removing right mouse button support in the next release too ;-)
<shauno> 1998 troll is fail :p
<HazRPG> s/if things are/if things aren't/
<HazRPG> exobuzz: what!?
<HazRPG> shauno: 1998 troll?
<shauno> the right click thing. prehistoric troll :)
<HazRPG> shauno: trust me, that top-right system pref. thing is annoying too
<shauno> I don't mind it being there.  I mind it being behind an icon that means something else.
<HazRPG> I like right-click though :(
<exobuzz> shauno, it was more of a joke than a troll, but it does look like ubuntu is taking a few ideas from a certain fruity vendor
<shauno> exobuzz: for sure
<exobuzz> HazRPG, it was a joke
<HazRPG> shauno: hmm, its not behind anything else... its actually INSIDE the power icon... which is daft
<shauno> if I was mark, I'd buy the design team all macs so they could see how the things they're trying to copy are meant to work
<exobuzz> yeh. i mean (yes im about to say something nice about apple), they at least implement this stuff properly.
<shauno> I've only tried unity-2d, but it felt like they're trying to copy osx from screenshots
<exobuzz> hehe
<exobuzz> this channel is ubuntu-gripe. we will all be banned tomorrow ;-)
<HazRPG> okay, broken software... dropbox is notifying me that its downloading stuff... but the icon isn't there, hasn't been there since boot... that's just weird
<shauno> I absolutely hate unity's global menu bar.  I've been using osx for 5 years, so this isn't a "global menu bar is change, I don't like change".  it's seriously messed up
<shauno> I don't like that it disappears; it means when I want to use it, I've no idea where I'm moving the mouse to
<shauno> I'm not aiming for the 'file' menu, I'm just waving in it's general direction to find out where the file menu is
<exobuzz> shauno, sorry , but i have to disagree here. you are meant to remember where all your menu options are. computing shouldnt be too easy!
<HazRPG> global menu bar just means "extra wrist exercise" right?
<exobuzz> HazRPG, yeh and that wrist is overworked as it is ;-)
<shauno> I don't like that it covers the app's name.  I don't like that it only partially covers the apps name.  I don't like that whether it fully covers the app's name or not depends whether the window is maximised :/
<exobuzz> shauno, http://malus.exotica.org.uk/~buzz/unity.png i like how they know i had bad eyesight so give me massive icons in the middle of my screen.
<ali1234> the best bit about global menu is when unity craps out and just draws a black bar
<ali1234> and you have to guess where the menu is
<shauno> I don't like that moving the mouse from one submenu to another momentarily changes focus to something else, so that highlights in the active window bounce between the "I'm the active window" color and the "I'm not the active window" color
<exobuzz> shauno, and on a 800x480 device, the icons actually are the same res, and dont fit on the screen
<HazRPG> exobuzz: *sigh* the connotations implied in that are just wrong, but I'll ignore that and say... I already have RSI from using my computer too much as it is... I don't need another excuse to be zipping my mouse across two screens
<exobuzz> HazRPG, i was referring to myself :)
<HazRPG> exobuzz: xD
<shauno> the dropbox icon is because it's trying to put an icon in the gnome notification area, which isn't there anymore
<HazRPG> you know what, you've just gave me a shocking and disturbing thought... crap what is this going to be like when I try this on my dual-screen setup, its all fun and games on my laptop, but if I were to install this on my PC... wow, this is going to sting!
<exobuzz> from using a mouse for 20 years of course
<HazRPG> exobuzz: of course xD
<exobuzz> i like ubuntu classic anyway.
<HazRPG> exobuzz: haha, just read your comment and saw your screenshot xD
<exobuzz> make the panels how i like and all is well
<HazRPG> xD I think I just woke my sister up from laughing too hard
<shauno> I've been using gnome-shell this evening.  it's not too bad, I think
<ali1234> bug 774586
<hamitron> :))
<lubotu3`> Launchpad bug 774586 in appmenu-gtk (Ubuntu) "Applications have no menu when run in a nested X session" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/774586
<HazRPG> exobuzz: also, you need to restart apparently (see's red power icon)
<shauno> I think I'd like it if I could use a multitouch gesture instead of the hot-corner, but other than that, it makes a surprising amount of sense
<exobuzz> HazRPG, yeh it was from some days/weeks ago that
<shauno> surprising because usually the gnome guys are more attached to what works in theory, than what works in practice
<exobuzz> shauno, used easystroke btw (unrelated to my previous comments about rsi) :)
<exobuzz> nice on touchscreens
<HazRPG> shauno: i must agree, from what I've seen of gnome-shell... I'll most likely be using it more in the coming months/years probably
<shauno> I barely have the trackpad working atm :/
<shauno> there's so much hardware support missing on my new laptop that it really feels just like trying to get a distro going in 1998 again
<hamitron> my trackpad isn't upto much :)
<hamitron> :/
<HazRPG> apparently getting the Unity3D bar to appear is like fighting with the edge of the screen... fun
<hamitron> I think ubuntu should do a google, and add "beta" onto the end of all their none-lts
<shauno> ooh, just noticed the missus has gone to bed, so I can go watch dr who now
<HazRPG> if I recall, weren't they making a "ubuntu tour" thing? Or was that just troll-warez
<HazRPG> shauno: your misses hates doctor who!?
<exobuzz> shauno, i bought a laptop with ati gfx and o2 micro card reader in 1995. that was fun on linux. the o2 micro card reader remains unsupported to this day :) the open source ati drivers are ok now, but the proprietory ones dropped support for my card even before they worked properly
<hamitron> more to the point.... tell her she will watch and accept it
<hamitron> ;/
<shauno> naw, she hasn't seen last week's yet, so I didn't think it was fair to put this week's on while she was still downstairs
<hamitron> ah, ok :)
<hamitron> you should watch last weeks with her then
<hamitron> ;/
<exobuzz> shauno, btw, as an amiga user. do you hang  out on english amiga board or ?
<HazRPG> hmm, how hard would it be to install natty to my pc but keep my existing grub and self-contain natty?
<shauno> amoga.org
<shauno> ugh
<shauno> can't type and walk, but you know what I mean
<shauno> *Amiga.org
<exobuzz> amiga.org ? ok.. yeh i know it
<exobuzz> not as bad as amigaworld.net but :)
<hamitron> HazRPG: erm, doesn't it give the option to leave the bootloader?
<shauno> the alternate asked me where I wanted to put it
<HazRPG> hamitron: I'm not sure, does it?
<hamitron> alt cd ftw
<shauno> if you put it on ubuntu's partition instead of the mbr, life will be much sane
<hamitron> back to this again
<hamitron> :)
<exobuzz> shauno, whats your forum handle ?
<HazRPG> so if I split a hdd up so place natty on, keep the old grub, and then somehow add natty to the existing grub...
<HazRPG> this sounds like a challenge I think :)
<shauno> you could even be really clever, and add a menuentry to your existing conf, which switches root to the natty disk, and does configfile (root)/boot/grub/grub.cfg
<hamitron> HazRPG: need to just chainload it
<HazRPG> I have the urge to play with natty on my PC and see how much I can ... err... review... about it
<hamitron> I think
<shauno> exobuzz: just Shaun, but I don't talk there much.  just gives me something to read at work :)
<exobuzz> :
<exobuzz> :) even
<ball> I've not had good luck with Natty so far.
<hamitron> shauno's way sounds more cool
<hamitron> :)
<exobuzz> shauno, aah yeh found you :)
<shauno> been playing with grub-efi for a couple of days now.  I understand grub2 a lot more than I want to  :(
<HazRPG> shauno: ah wait, I think I've done that before on my pendrive! I actually know what that is!
<exobuzz> 7 posts in 4 years heh
<shauno> that sounds about right
<ball> Tried upgrading fork's Xubuntu box to 11.4 and bricked it.
<HazRPG> ball: join the club xD
<ball> ...then tried a clean install of Xubuntu 11.4...and it failed.
<ball> ...now downloading Edubuntu 11.4
<ball> If that doesn't work I may roll back to 10.10
<shauno> HazRPG: what I'd do, is create a file on my natty partition, called /boot/natty
<hamitron> this is as smooth as a debian dist-upgrade
<hamitron> ;/
<shauno> then search -f --set /boot/natty root
<shauno> configfile /boot/grub/grub.cfg
<shauno> easy at that.  then hitting that menuentry will load up natty's config, so it stays up to date with kernel updates
<shauno> if the configfile contains menuentries (which it will, that way), it'll repopulate the menu immediately
<HazRPG> ball: its taken me 9hrs and several installs and liveCD tests and messing around to get 11.04 working - slight exaggeration, but I did start in the evening and only *just* got it working an hr ago T_T
<HazRPG> ball: how is fork btw? Been a while since I've seen you around.
<ball> HazRPG: She's good! We wore her out today with some gardening and walking around the garden centre
<shauno> battery's estimating 9hrs13 mins.  it's nice to be 'home' :)
<shauno> reminds me, while I've a sensible OS loaded, I should try to rebuild my grub-efi with ext4, so I can see if I can get that to boot natty
<hamitron> time for sleep for me
<hamitron> nn all ;)
<HazRPG> ball: heh aww
<HazRPG> ball: bless :)
<ball> Now I just have to fix her PC.
<HazRPG> ball: 10.10 ftw if all else fails
<HazRPG> or even 10.04 if needs be
<shauno> awesome, the dvr didn't catch the last 5 minutes of the previous show \o/
<shauno> (this means I stand a much higher chance of having the last few minutes of this show   lol)
<HazRPG> hmm, too much inconsistency with 11.04
<HazRPG> shauno: iplayer \o/
<HazRPG> vpn for uk ip \o/
<shauno> prefer to get it off the cable if I can.  iplayer isn't meant for 40" screens
<shauno> don't need vpn, my vps is in london :)
<shauno> it does get-iplayer --pvr on cron, and dumps the output in my dropbox :)
<shauno> get-iplayer nukes files after a few weeks by default, which suits me just fine.  keeps the dropbox tidy
<HazRPG> heh nice
<HazRPG> heh if it wasn't for all the talk of dr.who, I probably would have forgotten to grab the newest episode
<ball> Time to go and check on my download.
<shauno> Wonder how long I should stare at a blank screen before admitting I still haven't figured it out
<exobuzz> xbmc + iplayer plugin works well here (especially with the 3200kbit streams)
<shauno> Streaming gets a bit dodgy here. non-uk ip :/
<exobuzz> just proxy the handshake and you dont need to vpn
<exobuzz> ie. you ened to proxy the intial xml handshake with the bbc. the cdn are not geolocked for the actual streams
<shauno> should probably try that some day
<exobuzz> (at least not for the ondemand streams)
<exobuzz> i maintain the iplayer plugin for xbmc so have spent a lot of time messing with this stuff
<shauno> if the handshake bit is on a different netblock, I can just give that a different route
<exobuzz> yeh. so just vpn the bbc bit to get the auth code.
<exobuzz> 212.58.224.0 - 212.58.255.255 (bbcs range)
<HazRPG> heh, I shall remember that should I ever move! xD
<shauno> bit quiet tonight
<HazRPG> okay, so that episode of dr.who was a bit random O.o
<HazRPG> I think I might have to watch this again...
<HazRPG> I think I've just forgotten the plot already :S
<HazRPG> okay, so how did I forget that intro to the episode :S
<shauno> the whole pregnancy bit just confused me.  did she do the doctor?
 * ball hasn't seen any of the Eleventh Doctor episodes yet.
<shauno> I wonder if glimmerblocker would work on ubuntu.  the daemon half is just java
<ball> What's a glimmer?
<shauno> a http proxy for ad-filtering
<shauno> (and a few other transforms I've added)
<shauno> it's meant to be for osx, but since the meat is java, it might work
<HazRPG> I don't see why it wouldn't, unless it uses osx specific stuff
<shauno> well the config ui is kinda specific, but the daemon itself should be fairly sane
<shauno> also, I discovered tnt rocks for fighting forrest fires :)
<HazRPG> heh
<HazRPG> thought you were going off to watch dr.who xD
<shauno> I did
<HazRPG> ah
<shauno> that was 90 minutes ago :)
<shauno> 5am and I've decided I need to build a flooded-farm.  bah.
<HazRPG> rofl is that what your current project is?
<shauno> don't really have a project atm :/
<shauno> tried to go exploring.  found a new island, and accidentally burnt it down
<HazRPG> ah
<HazRPG> wow, I'm so glad I watched this again
<HazRPG> some of this episode is jumbled around like big time!
<shauno> google reader really needs a killfile
<HazRPG> lol a what?
<shauno> I want to be able to nuke things based on pattern
<HazRPG> ah
<shauno> eg, hackernews minus any headline that contains 'bitcoin'
<HazRPG> lol why?
<shauno> because I'm sick of reading about bitcoin?
<HazRPG> I wish I knew what that was... also why read it then? Just scroll past ;P
<shauno> I do, pretty much.  but because I just keep hitting j, I still have to page past them
<HazRPG> ah
<HazRPG> just noticed there's no labs either, bah  that's stupid
<HazRPG> however, there is a search bar
<HazRPG> could you not minus the title out in that?
<shauno> dunno, I don't use the web page because it's worse :)
<HazRPG> seems the search bar can be used to minus out headlines xD
<HazRPG> I just used: -"ubuntu"
<HazRPG> and it showed everything minus ubuntu
<HazRPG> wait, if you don't use the web page, then what do you use?
<shauno> I use reeder
<HazRPG> osx app?
<HazRPG> ah wait, no that wasn't a misspelling
<HazRPG> I was going to say make a plugin, but I doubt you can do that with that app
<HazRPG> Liferea ftw \o/
<HazRPG> right bed time for me, early (ish) start for me today
<HazRPG> think I've had enough of 11.04 for one day
<shauno> you lasted longer than I did :)
<HazRPG> heh
<HazRPG> its terrible, but I do believe they can still rectify some parts of it for 11.10 maybe
<shauno> gotta get ndiswrapper working next, but I want to get my trackpad sorted out first so I can actually use the UI
<HazRPG> (or just install gnome-shell xD)
<shauno> gnome-shell's what I've been working with
<HazRPG> gnome-shell on 11.04? Or gnome-shell on something else?
<shauno> on natty, yeah
<HazRPG> might have to try that out on my laptop
<HazRPG> ndiswrapper is the wifi stuff isn't it :S?
<shauno> it is.  which is why it's on the todo list :/
<HazRPG> (too lazy to re-open browser cos I don't really want to open up 30 tabs again)
<HazRPG> ah
<shauno> need ndis for the wifi, the trackpad because it's a freaking UI, and grub-efi so I can disable the ati card
<HazRPG> laptop without wifi, kinda renders them stupid really
<shauno> the wifi's the easy bit, I had it working in beta2 :)
<HazRPG> trackpad and grub stuff sounds like more of a challenge
<shauno> grub's still being a monumental pain in the rear
<HazRPG> it always has been ^_^
<HazRPG> useful when it works, pain when it doesn't
<shauno> well, to be fair, it's not actually grub that's getting in the way atm.  it's the videomodes for the framebuffer
<HazRPG> weird
<shauno> trying to figure out how to switch to the intel gpu before I start the kernel
<HazRPG> right, really must dash, long long day ahead of me... dealing with paperwork and govern. related stuff can be a pain sometimes
<shauno> I have figured out how to switch the ati off from grub.  haven't found the right values to switch to the intel.  so I end up with no gpu   lol
<HazRPG> heh
<HazRPG> guessing ATI stuff is being a ... at the moment
<shauno> I just don't want the ati card running because it sucks the battery dry
<HazRPG> ah
<HazRPG> well that makes sense really
<HazRPG> can that not be switched out OS-side?
<shauno> there's nothing under linux that needs it, so if I turn it off I'll run cooler, quieter, for longer
<shauno> so far, no.  I lose video when the kernel switches from the efi-vga framebuffer to the radeon framebuffer
<HazRPG> cos if you can, you could make a script that runs on startup to do that for you
<HazRPG> ah
<shauno> I'm basically doing peek & poke from grub (inb and outb).  I really don't want to do that from upstart :)
<HazRPG> shame
<HazRPG> ah, heh, yeah that will be a nightmare
<shauno> (and I still need to find the right values either way)
<HazRPG> but that's just it, doesn't 10.10 work? Could you not work out the values from that?
<shauno> 10.10 doesn't do gpu switching either
<HazRPG> you'd think it would... cos of the new intel CPU chips
<shauno> well, there's a catch
<shauno> X is prehistoric :)
<HazRPG> well yeah
<HazRPG> from the sounds of that video ali1234 linked earlier, looks like intel are on that
<shauno> for it to work in X, X has to be able to ...
<shauno> a) mirror the display to two completely different cards
<shauno> b) not <expletive> itself when the cards are hotplugged
<HazRPG> true true
<shauno> eg, the radeon driver has to gracefully handle the gpu being powered off
<shauno> you've got dualhead - can you sleep one screen but not the other?
<HazRPG> I can if I push the power off of one ;D
<HazRPG> don't think I can normally though
<shauno> heh
<HazRPG> although, never really tried
<shauno> as far as I can tell, that's all it's doing
<HazRPG> well as far as I can see in the NVIDIA X Server Settings... I can turn off a monitor... but it saves to an X conf file and asks you to restart
<HazRPG> so you can't do it on the fly
<HazRPG> gotta remember though, my is dualhead on the same graphics card
<shauno> ah
<HazRPG> I'm sure it would <wrong-word> if it was on different cards
<shauno> as far as I can tell, it's mirroring the display across two cards, then putting one of the two to sleep
<shauno> so to switch displays, you wake up the card, poke the gmux to switch to that card as the source, then sleep the first card
<HazRPG> guessing nothing in the logs shows anything unusual then
<shauno> I get 5 seconds worth of kernel log, and then it dies :/
<ball> I think I officially dislike Natty.
<ball> (since it dislikes my hardware)
<HazRPG> ball: not the only one, like I said I had a fight with it too
<HazRPG> ball: shauno is still fighting with it, but I think his problem is more due to his hardware being too new
<shauno> so I've figured out the gmux lives at offset 0x750.  after that, I've actually no idea what the values in the various addresses are :)
<ball> This one has Intel 945, so nothing cutting-edge there.
<HazRPG> ball: I had trouble with the P4 I have... and my laptop that I've finally managed to get running sort of smoothly is core 2 duo
<shauno> well, more the problem .. I have no idea what the actual addresses are.  it's not like I've got an address the tells me which gpu.  I have a range of addresses that contain values, and I'm just poking different values into them until it breaks.  then rebooting, and trying different values
<HazRPG> might have to faff with the P4 one some more when I get up, see if I can /attempt/ to get it online properly
<ball> I just spent hours downloading Edubuntu and then burned it to a DVD.
<ball> ...just like Ubuntu and Xubuntu, it doesn't work.
<ball> (for me, on this box)
<shauno> and the grub wiki is still down :(
<HazRPG> shauno: is there not a mirror for that?
<shauno> google's cache :)
<HazRPG> shauno: xD
<HazRPG> ball: what's the issue exactly? I've found you need to faff around with some config to get it up and running so far on my systems
<HazRPG> worst thing is, I mess around with so much, I don't actually know which of the solutions I did actually fixed it >_<
<jacobw> why would edubuntu work where x/ubuntu doesn't?
<HazRPG> which is why I plan to mess around with it more when I wake up later
<jacobw> ha, you need to track your issues :)
<jacobw> or solutions, either one of those things :p
<HazRPG> jacobw: normally I would, but I was just getting beyond frustrated with it lol
<jacobw> computers do that to people
<HazRPG> some wouldn't have messed around with it as much as I did though xD
<ball> jacobw: It was wishful thinking, but it's for my daughter's PC so if it worked the educational content might have been helpful
<ball> HazRPG: Blank screen, nothing happening.
<HazRPG> they'd have seen "not working, oh well... *throws in bin*"
<HazRPG> ball: after install, or is that the LiveCD/AltCD ?
<jacobw> yeah, most people are suprisingly averse to problem solving
<ball> HazRPG: LiveCD.  I don't get far enough to install it.
<jacobw> what graphics card is in the machine?
<HazRPG> jacobw: fear of the unknown, and the lack of motivation to find out why it won't work, and even less motivation as to how to fix it
<ball> jacobw: Intel D945
<HazRPG> ball: LiveCD too me half hr to boot up...
<ball> (It's a D945GCLF mITX mainboard)
<HazRPG> took*
<HazRPG> ball: you'd have probably been better off trying with a Alt-disc
<HazRPG> ball: that's how I got my semi-working on my stuff
<HazRPG> s/my/mine*
<jacobw> !ping
<lubotu3`> Here I am, brain the size of a planet and they ask me to respond to factoid requests. Call that job satisfaction? Because I don't.
<ball> HazRPG: Is 10.10 more likely to work?
<ball> !diodes
<HazRPG> ball: hmm, I'm running 10.10 right now, and haven't had any issues with it at all
<HazRPG> ball: what was running on it before?
<ball> Xubuntu 10.10 I think.
<HazRPG> ball: then yeah ^_^
<ball> Might have been an 11.4 Beta
<ball> I forget.  It has been a few days since I installed that.
<HazRPG> ball: if your willing to give 11.04 another try... I'd recommend the Alt-CD of either ubuntu or xubuntu
<HazRPG> since you get more sane results with it than the LiveCD
<jacobw> ball: when do you get the blank screen? when X starts or before?
<HazRPG> bah didn't want to open my 30 tab browser, but hang on
<ball> jacobw: I got the screen where you choose a language and then choose whether to try it or install it.
<HazRPG> ball: this is what I constantly got with all the LiveCD versions: https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/-tedGRcfQT4DIgUILLn1kQ?feat=directlink
<HazRPG> ball: see that bit always loads up fine... its after you click "try" that conks out on me
<ball> ...then a blank screen with no icons, no text
<HazRPG> have a look at what I was greeted with
<ball> Slightly different behaviour depending on the variant: Xubuntu loses sync on the monitor.  Ubuntu shows me a desktop with icons but immediately errors out.  Edubuntu goes to a black screen.
<HazRPG> the screenshot doesn't do what I actually saw justice though, cos it would flicker like crazy - I'm so glad I'm not epileptic
<HazRPG> if not, that would have been a bad time to find out >_<
<jacobw> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.searchtext=D945GCLF&orderby=-importance&search=Search&field.status%3Alist=NEW&field.status%3Alist=INCOMPLETE_WITH_RESPONSE&field.status%3Alist=INCOMPLETE_WITHOUT_RESPONSE&field.status%3Alist=CONFIRMED&field.status%3Alist=TRIAGED&field.status%3Alist=INPROGRESS&field.status%3Alist=FIXCOMMITTED&assignee_option=any&field.assignee=&field.bug_reporter=&field.bug_supervisor=&field.bug_commenter=&field.subscriber=&fiel
<ball> HazRPG: Sounds like you're having display issues too then.
<jacobw> eurgh..
<jacobw> sorry, i didn't realise how long that url was
<HazRPG> ball: two ways I got it working on mine is either a) install 10.10, then upgrade to 11.04 OR b) grab the alt-CD and install that way
<ball> It didn't seem like the 11.4 Beta 2 was out very long before they released 11.4
<ball> ...was it released before it was ready?
<jacobw> 2 weeks
<HazRPG> I have a feeling it was, but who knows
<HazRPG> some have pure success with it, but for some it just utterly falls apart on them
<jacobw> i seem to be having pure sucess with it :)
<HazRPG> well your not the only one, my old tutor is too
<jacobw> ball: try debian on that box?
<HazRPG> but for me, nothing but problems from the start
<ball> jacobw: Will Debian suit a five-year-old girl?
<HazRPG> jacobw: I reckon he should download the alt-cd first, and check his joys out with that first
<jacobw> yeah, that's probably a better idea
<ball> Is there any other (perhaps non-Ubuntu) Linux that might suit her?
<jacobw> i hadn't realised that unity was probably the motivation for installing 11.04
<HazRPG> cos at least that way he can try both an "upgrade" option using the alt-cd as a repo, or to just try and install pure from disc
<HazRPG> jacobw: ah see I knew it was for a small girl ya see ^_^
<MartijnVdS> \o
<jacobw> o/
<HazRPG> ball: if you want to try something new for her... and like the debian way of stuff, you could try out this one: http://www.qimo4kids.com/
<ball> I don't really know what the Debian way of stuff is.
<ball> ...but I'll try Qimo
<HazRPG> ball: I haven't personally tested it out myself, but I had it downloaded for a few months - I visit the family in Egypt once a year... so I was going to see what it was like before I went over in a couple of weeks time for one of my lil cousins
<jacobw> there's little between 'the ubuntu way' and 'the debian way' except that 'the debian way' is usually better documented
<HazRPG> ball: well Qimo is ubuntu-based, but when I say "the debian way" I mean things like sudo, deb packages, etc
<jacobw> i suppose on the educational front there *is* sugar.. i don't how feasible it is to use that on a small scale though
<jacobw> this qimo stuff looks interesting
<HazRPG> yeah, Qimo has spotted my eye for a few months now, and thought it would work great for some of my lil cousins
<HazRPG> jacobw: oh, you mean sugar as in the pc for every kid thing?
<jacobw> yeah
<jacobw> one laptop per child
<HazRPG> I always thought the interface for that looked too scary for a kid
<HazRPG> http://www.sugarlabs.org/index.php?template=gallery&page=media_01
<jacobw> perhaps it only looks scary to an adult? :p
<jacobw> i don't know
<HazRPG> maybe
<HazRPG> this just looks more pleasing to the eye though: http://i1-linux.softpedia-static.com/screenshots/Qimo-4-Kids_1.png
<jacobw> it does look good
<HazRPG> oh well, I really need to get some shut eye
<shauno> should too, but I'm starting to think sticking a pizza in the oven is gonna be a better idea :)
<HazRPG> ball: good luck with Qimo or (X)Ubuntu 11.04, hopefully child process 2.0 will like it either way ^_^
<shauno> (I'm also thinking that sticking random values into efi addresses may not be a healthy thing, so trying to figure out how to query the current values from within osx)
<HazRPG> heh
<HazRPG> there must be a way to monitor it in osx
<HazRPG> because surely osx flips between them seamlessly if I recall you saying
<shauno> it does
<HazRPG> should be a way to grab a debugger of some kind to print out the values
<shauno> but it's all done via their api, I haven't tracked down where the switching is actually done
<HazRPG> also, pizza ftw! \o/
<HazRPG> planning on popping a few chicken sausages in the oven before bed ^_^
<HazRPG> ball: let me know how you get on btw
<HazRPG> shauno: I'll most likely speak to ya later on at some point
<jacobw> chicked sausages?!
<HazRPG> and to jacobw, catch ya later :)
<jacobw> bye :)
<HazRPG> jacobw: yeah, can't stand pig related stuff ^_^
<HazRPG> even the smell puts me off
<jacobw> i've seen them slaughered, its pretty disgusting.
<HazRPG> so have I... think that's where the disgust started xD
<HazRPG> anyways, food + sleep calls
<HazRPG> night all \o
<HazRPG> last note: everyone should try chicken sausages... they're so nice!!!
<HazRPG> or beef!
<HazRPG> beef sausages are good too :)
<jacobw> night :)
<shauno> the sunny side of an all-nighter is the wrong time to be looking at decompiles of kernel drivers :/  shall have to ask around 'n see if the source for this one can be otained
<ball> Downloaded Qimo, trying that.
<kvarley> Morning Ubuntu-ers
<kvarley> Having difficulty with pulse audio and games...again. I have to run padsp everytime I want to play Unreal Tournament 2004. Is there not a way to set it to use pulse audio as the driver somehow? It would be of much use to me so I can use glc to record the game.
<kvarley> Please ignore my previous message, I have since solved the problem
<kvarley> Just in case somebody looks back on the chat with the same problem, I deleted the openal.so library from my ut2004/System folder and then made a symbolic link to the library which is installed from the repos. (sudo ln -s /usr/lib64/libopenal.so /path/to/ut2004/System/openal.so)
<MooDoo> morning
<kvarley> MooDoo: 0/
<MooDoo> :)
<czajkowski> Aloha
<MooDoo> morning czajkowski :)
<czajkowski> MooDoo: howdy
<MooDoo> czajkowski: hows the back?
<czajkowski> much better thanks
<MooDoo> czajkowski: excellent
<popey> morning
<MartijnVdS> howdy popey
<MooDoo> morning popey
<daubers> Morning
<mfraz74> any ideas what has happened to the countdowns at http://www.ubuntu.com/community/countdown ?
<MartijnVdS> they hit 0 :)
<MartijnVdS> the countdown is over
<mfraz74> shouldn't they say 'it's here'?
<mfraz74> banner1.png doesn't even exist any more
<AlanBell> mfraz74: yes, it is an embarrasing cockup
<mfraz74> AlanBell: only realised when it was still showing "coming soon" on my website
<popey> TheOpenSourcerer: fixed your sons pc?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Nope.
<daubers> TheOpenSourcerer: Whats wrong with it?
<TheOpenSourcerer> The old UI works but no 3d effects work. Looks like it is suffering from bug 771788
<lubotu3`> Launchpad bug 771788 in jockey (Ubuntu) "nVidia driver activated and apparently being used but reported as not being used by jockey-gtk" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/771788
<TheOpenSourcerer> Try and log in with Unity and you get nothing other than the wallpaer.
<TheOpenSourcerer> The standard desktop has no effects enabled and trying to turn anything on through CCSM causes heaps of #fail.
<popey> what video card is it?
<TheOpenSourcerer> NV37GL [Quadro FX 330/GeForce PCX 5300]
<gord> thanks for telling me its the 1st of the month all my mailing lists!
<jibadeeha> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJykX4s9MtQ&feature=related   ... this is quicker than Windows XP on a normal PC
<brobostigon> good morning everyone
<MartijnVdS> hi brobostigon
<brobostigon> goodmorning MartijnVdS :)
<dwatkins> hiya
<brobostigon> http://etbe.coker.com.au/2011/04/30/autism-awareness-free-software/    just found that on planet debian.
<brobostigon> good morning dwatkins
<popey> 7 tickets left for oggcamp :)
<MooDoo> thought they were sold out?
<MooDoo> well obviously not lol
<popey> we released more
<MooDoo> cool
<popey> that speccy thing is faked sadly :(
<MooDoo> think we all worked that one out :)
<popey> well. no.
<popey> its made to look like it was recorded on a spectrum
<popey> but little things give it away
<popey> like the R tape loading error should be at the bottom of the screen and should blat out the bottom two lines
<popey> and when the colour comes in it should load in blocks not lines
<popey> aaaanyway
<MartijnVdS> popey: your inner geek is showing ;)
<popey> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ooi9rpx6ECM&NR=1
<popey> even better
<TheOpenSourcerer> OT but very funny speech from Obama taking a *big* dig at Trump. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n9mzJhvC-8E via AlanBell
<JustMeDude> can someone pls help, upgraded to 11.04, tried compiz to get transparency back now when I log in I have no top bar or launcher
<jonsaint> hi all. is it me or is this new release as slow as hell? previous version was very quick on my pc but this new one seems to be lagging somewhat plus when my screensaver kicks in, within a few minutes it locks up and takes ages to get back to the home screen!
<livingdaylight> greetings
<brobostigon> afternoonings livingdaylight
<livingdaylight> I was looking for the 64-bit version; once dl-ed it appears as ubuntu-11.04-desktop-amd64.iso Is that good for my intel system too?
<livingdaylight> brobostigon, hi
<brobostigon> livingdaylight: as long as your intel system is also 64bit, yes.
<livingdaylight> ok - thx. The amd bit threw me
<brobostigon> :)
<constrictor> does anyone use a thinkpad edge here
<Azelphur> what's the proper way to do wifi range extension without having to switch between routers manually?
<Ng> range extension?
<Ng> like, multiple access points?
<Azelphur> Ng: yea but I don't want to have to manually switch
<popey> Ng: you do that at UDS don't you?
<Azelphur> currently I have a setup where all routers have the same SSID, but my brother whines that his silly windows laptop always connects to the node with the least signal strength (yay windows)
<Ng> popey: we sure do :)
<popey> Azelphur: mac address filter him out of tha furthest ap?
<Ng> heh
<Azelphur> popey: and lock him in his bedroom and throw away the key? :P
 * popey has ordered a GTX 460 \o/
<Azelphur> THOU SHALL NOT USETH INTERNET IN THE FRONT ROOM.
<Ng> one option would be to turn that AP's transmit power down so the ranges don't overlap so much, but ultimately in a multi-AP-single-ESSID world you are always going to be at the mercy of poor heuristics
<Azelphur> Ng: yea, I'm after a better way of doing it, I don't mind buying some equipment to get it done
<Azelphur> There's gig ethernet around most of the house too
<popey> give your brother an ethernet cable for his birthday
<Ng> hehe
<Azelphur> ethernet cables for laptops \o/
<Ng> I have both my APs on the same ESSID, except the lounge one also has a separate 5ghz essid for devices I explicitly want to clamp to that AP
<knightwise> morning everyone
<Azelphur> I just want a proper way to be able to free roam around the house, which will involve some kind of repeaters
<dwatkins> Azelphur: ethernet over mains?
<Azelphur> dwatkins: being plugged into an ethernet cable, clearly not free roaming.
<dwatkins> Azelphur: sorry I meant could you use two wifi access points, one connected to an ethernet-over-power point?
<Azelphur> dwatkins: late to the discussion I talked about this above
<dwatkins> ah ok, I'll read
<popey> hmm, i have two access points here, they have different ESSIDs
<dwatkins> heh, I see
<popey> maybe I should make them the same
<dwatkins> wow, finally an advantage to living in a tiny one-bedroom flat :D ;)
<popey> heh
<popey> mind you, i upgraded to VM 30MB/s so I will be getting another AP soon
<knightwise> hey everyone
<knightwise> you guyz remember my podcast copy script right ?
<knightwise> i'm perfectionising it to use dropbox so i can wirelessly sync to my ipad and ois devices too
<knightwise> but have run into a pickle where there there is a problem with an rsync command
<knightwise> i've posted the output http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1699708&page=2
<dwatkins> how long has Unity been around? It looks like a great solution for some people, although I'm unsure how to turn it off again or get to synaptic.
<brobostigon> http://www.geeksaresexy.net/2011/05/01/the-difference-between-iphone-and-android/  lol
<dwatkins> it appears that X is hanging on this Macbook Pro, but I guess that's a separate issue
<dwatkins> I like that blog, brobostigon :)
<brobostigon> :)
<dwatkins> I'm tempted to learn about writing apps for iPhone and/or Android as none of the speedometers I've tried look quite right.
<dwatkins> it seems this Macbook Pro doesn't like someone typing 'b' after logging in... X totally hangs
<brobostigon> :(
<brobostigon> dwatkins: whats shows up in syslog and xorg log.
<dwatkins> yeah, just had a look at the Xorg log, nothing was written to it; seems to do the same in chromium as in chrome, which is wierd. Perhaps it's network access that it hates.
<brobostigon> weird.
<dwatkins> yeah, seems to be chrome[ium] only
<dwatkins> sorry, chrom[e|ium] ;)
<brobostigon> hmmm.
<popey> brobostigon: did you know all your posts double up on facebook?
<popey> everything appears twice, once from gwibber, once from identi.ca
<brobostigon> popey: i didnt know, no, weird. ah, ok,
<brobostigon> i will stop gwibber posting to facebook, as identi.ca seems to be doing it.
<brobostigon> popey: thankyou for bringing that to my attention.
<dwatkins> aha, got it - the USB device ID was wrong in the xorg.conf.d entry
<jacobw> i've just eaten a whole box of those 'french fancies' :|
<dwatkins> now we just need to fix the fact chrome hangs
<jacobw> i feel.. fat :p
 * dwatkins hands jacobw a wafer-thin mint
<jacobw> hmm
<jacobw> now you've made me think about the joys of kendal mint cake
<jacobw> insensitive clod!
<dwatkins> haha
<phonex01> such amazing food ..... anyone tried Mansaf before ???
<phonex01> im just done with it i think i ate about 3 kg hahah
<jacobw> i've never heard of that before, i've looked it up on wikipedia, it look amazing
<twin> How can you kill X at TTY6, while you are at TTY2? - TTY6 is graphically stuck.
<twin> * ok, managed to kill the other X. Now trying recover the other X such that I do not lose the pieces of information in the given windows.
<MartijnVdS> twin: if you killed X, those applications will have closed
<twin> MartijnVdS: I had two Xs running.
<twin> MartijnVdS: at different displays.
<twin> How can you see the processes that are on at TTY7 while you are at TTY2?
<MartijnVdS> ps ?
<twin> * ps aux does not give an accurate picture
<twin> * I would like to know why the X just got stuck at TTY7.
<twin> * I can move mouse. I see Google Maps which I was using. However, I can only move mouse.
<twin> * answer is probably at log messages
<MartijnVdS> It's probably not easily solveable
<MartijnVdS> you could try killing google maps (from the other console)
<MartijnVdS> see if that helps
<MartijnVdS> if that doesn't help, I don't know what will
<MartijnVdS> other than reboot
<twin> MartijnVdS: true. Killed Chromes but the X is not responding, showing only Google maps.
<MartijnVdS> twin: kill google maps
<MartijnVdS> (don't you mean google earth?0
<twin> MartijnVdS: No. I was using Chrome while the X crashed, playing LoU.
<twin> * had many serial processes going on.
<twin> * flash blocked however.
<twin> * JS problem probably
<MartijnVdS> no
<twin> however, it should not crash like that
<twin> yeah
<MartijnVdS> OpenGL is probably the problem
<twin> yeah
<brobostigon> what does dmesg and xorg logs say, then you can file a bug.
<Azelphur> Anyone here knowledgeable with the IRC protocol, or know a channel of people who are?
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: what are you trying to do? :)
<twin> brobostigon: My dmesg and xorg.logs pastebin.com/AXaCNBBM and pastebin.com/cBKbLd5K
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: the protocol is a bit ambiguous in places, lots of things are convention
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: when a mode is set on a user in a channel, the server sends MODE #channel +o blah
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: but if you send a WHO #channel, the modes for the user are sent in a different format, like @ is +o
<Azelphur> wondering how I convert between the 2.
<shauno> usually just send version to the server
<twin> MartijnVdS: Yes, it is a OpenGL issue: see the Xorg.log: couldn't not create pixmap
<twin> MartijnVdS: fbcon issue
<Azelphur> shauno: ah yea I see, my server sends RAW 005 which contains PREFIX=(qaohv)~&@%+
<Azelphur> I wonder if all servers send that.
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: I'd check the source of a client
<brobostigon> twin: ok, i cant see anyspeific there, so i would go with MartijnVdS, iwould take aquick browse onlaunchpad and see if something has been filed.
<MartijnVdS> but maybe I'm strange
<shauno> most I'm familiar with do.  eg, freenode has PREFIX=(ov)@+
<Azelphur> cool
<Azelphur> I'll have to pull that on startup then :)
<twin> brobostigon: Yes, there are similar reports see with KDE, but I am using gnome + uni*
<daubers> ping AlanBell
<shauno> and PREFIX=(yqaohv)!~&@%+ from another network I'm on.  don't recall seeing one where it doesn't work, but can't promise it's actually in the spec
<MartijnVdS> twin: could it be a (video) memory shortage?
<brobostigon> twin: i see, ah.
<Azelphur> shauno: that's should be ok then if it's in the spec :)
<Azelphur> oh, can't promise
 * Azelphur investigates
<shauno> Azelphur: that's what I mean.  I'm not sure it is.  it just seems to be defacto.  (most the stuff in version is overloaded)
<Azelphur> yea
<twin> MartijnVdS: Probably, since I had two LoU going on, 10 chromes and one Google map
<Azelphur> I'll just do it and if anyone complains fix it \o/
<twin> MartijnVdS: + one firefox with 3 tabs
<MartijnVdS> twin: don't do that then ;)
<twin> MartijnVdS: But should it crash like that if there is a shortage of memory?
<MartijnVdS> twin: lots of programs aren't tested for low video memory
<MartijnVdS> twin: because it doesn't happen often
<twin> MartijnVdS: But google chrome has been tested
<twin> MartijnVdS: and firefox too
<MartijnVdS> twin: Really? For behaviour in low-memory AND low-video-memory environments?
<MartijnVdS> twin: I don't think so
<twin> MartijnVdS: ok, I admit. I am newbie with these tests so I need trust you only for now
<shauno> firefox and chrome can be a bit sketchy with poor video support, now that they're trying to move stuff like webgl into the browser itself
<shauno> I'd look to see if there's an option to disable that, and see if it changes
<MartijnVdS> twin: All I know is that it's very hard to test all bits of a program that need a new piece of memory (that happens all over the place) at exactly the moment memory runs out
<twin> ok, thank you guys for your answers! I will try to disable webgl to test shauno's suggestino
<twin> shauno: Yes, the problem is with WebGL, at least in Chrome. There is a short discussion 14/3/2011 by AdrianST about it in Google forum.
<shauno> no idea if it's the whole problem in your case, but it does mean they're heavier on vram than you'd expect them to be
<twin> true
<HazRPG> \o
<hamitron> :)
<HazRPG> man, I hate to do this to my favourite operating system... but what's with all the inconsistencies!
<HazRPG> I'm sure I've counted 3  different types of scrollbars so far
<HazRPG> and I haven't installed anything out of the ordinary yet
<Who__> popey: are you about?
<HazRPG> hmm, how do I find out which localisation I'm using?
<HazRPG> cos I don't recall the Rubbish Bin being called a "Wastebasket"
<HazRPG> I'm pretty sure its only my american friends that call it a wastebasket
<brobostigon> iwould tend toagree, we call it a bin.
<DJones> HazRPG: Mine is called "Bin" with "Empty bin" when I right click
<HazRPG> mine says "Empty Wastebasket"
<DJones> HazRPG: Mine is called "Bin" with "Empty bin" when I right click
<DJones> But "Wastebasket" when I click to open
<HazRPG> oh yeah, in the unity bar its Bin... how odd :S
<HazRPG> wow... too many inconsistencies >_<
<HazRPG> its like a HCI nightmare
<HazRPG> (I hate the fact that I studied HCI... I've noticed I'm nit-picking too much >_<)
<gord> hello from budapest
<brobostigon> evening gord o/
<gord> the hotel wifi is slow and wired only. heads will roll!
<brobostigon> :(
<gord> i'v somehow managed to fuse my power cable into my laptop... thats a new one
<popey> Should have taken a fon with you
<popey> share out the hotel wifi and charge for it
<gord> yeah i always want to do something like that, mostly just because wired is always better than the crappy wifi
<gord> wow flash is like 60 odd mb
<Daviey> gord: wait what?  < gord> the hotel wifi is slow and wired only <--- how is it WIFI if wired only?
<gord> .... shut up thats why!
<Daviey> gord: No wifi in the rooms, as in one cat5 cable?
<gord> i'v been traveling all day :( words may not make sense
<gord> no wifi in the room, i'll speak to someone tomorrow, there is wifi, but its behind a pay wall. was assured it was password free (the wired is, not the wifi)
<Daviey> gord: Ahhh... have you asked reception if there is a 'conference code for the wifi?'
<gord> tomorrow :) i'm tired and this works for now
<Daviey> mind you, was it Orlando or Dallas where it said like 20 USD per 24hrs... and we were told 'they won't really charge you' confidence--
<Daviey> gord: How long was your flight?!
<gord> dallas, they do that every time at that hotel, they honestly don't charge you :)
<gord> two hours!!! traveling drains me, all the preparation, waiting around, hard work it is
<Daviey> wow, i hope you walked around a bit on the plane... that deep vein thrombosis is a real concern on long haul.
<gord> you coming next week Daviey?
<Daviey> gord: Yeah, arrive Wed.
<gord> oh, i leave wednesday :P
<Daviey> gord: you won't be there for UDS?
<gord> no no i leave next wednesday, so here for half of uds
<gord> honestly, i'm useless the thursday/friday of uds anyway, i don't even remember them
<Daviey> gord: I arrive on the 4th May.  You fly out on the 11th... our paths might cross. :o
<gord> oooh you arrive this wednesday, gotcha
<Daviey> fly out = return home.
<gord> oh geez... this is not g ood
<gord> the minibar is full of delicious things, its not empty like normal
<Daviey> gord: blame your roomie.
<brobostigon> what is the uds planning page?
<brobostigon> or should i just look at the blueprints page onlaunchpad?
<gord> depends what you mean by planning, what are you after?
<brobostigon> just shedule, dates etc.
<gord> http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-o/
<brobostigon> thank you gord
<jibadeeha> deja dup is an excellent piece of software
<AlanBell> o/ Pendulum
<Pendulum> AlanBell: hiya
<AlanBell> good trip?
<Pendulum> not bad
<mgdm> evening
<Pendulum> got upgraded for 2nd flight so actually got to sleep lying down for a couple hours on it!
<Pendulum> hiya mgdm
<mgdm> ow goes?
<AlanBell> nice, I have never turned left when getting on to a plane
<Pendulum> good
<Pendulum> mgdm: not bad
<gord> o_O why do you want AlanBell to not have nice things :(
<popey> heh
<popey> I only turned left once
<popey> got free upgrade going to NY
<popey> Free upgrade on a free flight \o/
<popey> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-website/+bug/773243
<lubotu3`> Ubuntu bug 773243 in Ubuntu Website "Ubuntu website advertises "Fully compatible with Microsoft Office"" [Undecided,Invalid]
<popey> what do we feel about that?
<popey> personally the wording makes me feel icky
<Pendulum> gord: was responding to mgdm
<popey> I would never say "Our office applications, for example, are fully compatible with Microsoft Office" to someone
<popey> it sounds like a lie
<gord> it is a lie
<Pendulum> sorry, I've gotten 2 hours of sleep in the last 36
<gord> it should not say fully compatible with microsoft office because ubuntu is not fully compatible with microsoft office
<AlanBell> popey: does libre office or openoffice.org make that claim?
<popey> Pass
<Daviey> popey: "fully compatible" needs a list of fail to really answer it IMO.. but as i said the other day, it's 'no fuss!' :)
<AlanBell> http://www.libreoffice.org/features/
<popey> Ok, I can give you three fails.
<mgdm> quick survey: how much like an early Dr Who "Patented BBC Bad Chromakeyâ¢" does http://mgdm.net/final.jpg look? :)
<popey> 1) Publisher
<DJones> Isn't MS Publisher included within MS Office.... I didn't think LibreOffice/OpenOffice had anything compatible
<popey> 2) Visio
<popey> 3) OneNote
<popey> none of those are in LibreOffice (or Ubuntu)
<penguin42> popey: Even sticking just to word/powerpoint/excel you couldn't honestly make that claim
<popey> indeed
<gord> mgdm, don't really know what i'm looking for
<Daviey> popey: http://www.libreoffice.org/features/  is what upstream claim, under "LibreOffice is user-friendly:"  Not quite as strong a claim.
<Daviey> pah, AlanBell beat me.
<popey> yeah, was reading that
<mgdm> gord: does the church at the top look photoshopped in?
<Pendulum> Daviey: I had a moment in Kings Cross today thinking I'd seen you. It was very odd (and was definitely not you on 2nd look, just 1/2 glance initially looked similar)
<Daviey> Pendulum: I was there on Friday ;)
<gord> mgdm, it looks off, but at a glance i wouldn't say its photoshopped
<shauno> not sure that bug should be invalid
<Daviey> Pendulum: Was it an unbelievably handsome chap?  I can see how you would have mistaken him for me.
<mgdm> gord: ah. It's 3 photos blended together to get roughly the right exposure everywhere in the image
<popey> Pendulum: hang on, you're in the UK, now?
<shauno> I think if I'd bought ubuntu as a commercial product on the grounds of promised compatibility, I'd be due a refund
<Pendulum> popey: as of noon today
<gord> Pendulum, gone to see the queen yet? you can ask her to tea any time and she has to say yes, its in the constitution
 * AlanBell gives shauno a full refund
<shauno> heh, I know
<Daviey> AlanBell: even if shauno bought the cd from the online shop? :)
<shauno> but I mean, that statement is misleading enough that if money were to be changing hands, that'd be under statutory rights
<shauno> I think marking it invalid with no discussion at all is rather hasty, is all
<gord> my shower gel says that women will flock to me, pretty sure you can say that anything does anything
<Daviey> AlanBell: I bought 100 of these, http://shop.canonical.com/product_info.php?products_id=765 - can you give me a refund... kkthnxbye.
<AlanBell> gord: it hints at it
<shauno> it kinda implies it on tv, but you won't find it written on the package
 * AlanBell thinks it is silly to have an argument when everyone is in agreement
<gord> AlanBell, it literally says the words "unlimited female attention"
<gord> right there on the container
<shauno> right; so to dispute that, you'd have to prove that it is enforcing limits :p
<brobostigon> good night, sleep well,everyone.
<shauno> office compatibilty is pretty much a myth anyway.  I can create documents on ms office for mac, that don't open properly in ms office for windows
<shauno> if ms office isn't compatible with ms office, what chance does anyone else have
<Virunga> Hi, i would know if there are 3rd part drivers for ati 4850 graphic card
<Virunga> for ubuntu 11.04
<Virunga> because i tried to see a movie with preinstalled driver and the vision was not good
<Azelphur> Virunga: go to system > administration > hardware drivers
<Virunga> Azelphur: i did it, with ubuntu live cd
<Azelphur> Ubuntu live cds have that disabled I believe, largely because it requires a reboot to install
<Azelphur> so it'd be wiped on reboot xD
<Virunga> Azelphur: so i must install ubuntu to know
<Azelphur> Virunga: check on atis driver page and see if there are drivers for Linux?
<popey> !ati
<lubotu3`> For Ati/NVidia/Matrox video cards, see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/VideoDriverHowto
<Virunga> Azelphur good idea
<Virunga> I found driver for my graphic card for linux x86. I have ubuntu 64bit, the driver is good?
<czajkowski> Aloha
<Tommeh>  /delurk
<Tommeh> Hi
<Tommeh>  /lurk
<ali1234> argh the scrollbar thing won't let me resize windows from the right edge
<Azelphur> woot, broke g++ http://pastebin.com/5dfY6tS4 \o/
<ali1234> natty?
<Azelphur> on my server, 10.04 LTS
<ali1234> oh dear
<ali1234> reproducable?
<Azelphur> yep
<Azelphur> can't build ZNC :(
<Azelphur> I'll do an upgrade, see if that fixes it
<shauno> 0.098?
<Azelphur> indeed
<popey> where did you get that tarball?
<Azelphur> from znc.in
<Azelphur> and it's happening with znc 0.096 too, which I could build before
<Azelphur> so something has gone wrong o.O
<popey> what did you do?
<popey> untar it, configure, make?
<Azelphur> yep
<popey> anything else, anything special?
<Azelphur> nope.
<shauno> what options does configure find?
<Azelphur> shauno: http://pastebin.com/kirQ1Eyk
<shauno> hm, mine matches but without c-ares, and succeeds
<popey> builds fine here
<Azelphur> yea as I said I can't build 0.096 either which I built fine a while back
<popey> no openssl no c-ares here
<Azelphur> something not ZNC wise has gone wrong
<shauno> http://pastebin.com/EgrxZ4Bn  (succeeds is boring, but there it is - on 10.04.2)
<Azelphur> maybe I'll try without c-ares
<Azelphur> nope, still won't build with --disable-c-ares
<Azelphur> and with --disable-openssl too :p
<shauno> works on mine with c-ares too.  so the only difference I can see between them is that you're building for x86_64, and I'm not
<Azelphur> shauno: it's not a ZNC issue.
<shauno> didn't say it was.  it's an issue, somewhere, and I'm trying to help narrow it
<Azelphur> ok :p
#ubuntu-uk 2012-04-23
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Stuart Langridge] Decades - http://www.kryogenix.org/days/2012/04/23/decades
<popey> Life is a minestrone.
<ging> not sure if that was a massive netsplit, or a small one i was on the wrong side of
<jussi> ging: the latter ;)
<MooDoo> morning all
<diplo> Morning all
<popey> bug 987156
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 987156 in compiz (Ubuntu) "alt-backtick flickers between windows" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/987156
<czajkowski> aquarius: is your blog down ?
<aquarius> I'm working on it
<aquarius> back now
<czajkowski> aquarius: cheers
<Daviey> aquarius: That was a worry.. I thought my primary source of news was offline!
<aquarius> Daviey, I can see how you'd feel cut off without it
<popey> golly, Daviey is alive
<popey> aquarius: "Provding advice on being famous since 2003"
<aquarius> I do my best :)
<Daviey> popey: I never died.
<Daviey> :)
<JamesTait> Happy St George's Day, everyone! :D
<aquarius> yay! Which dragon should we kill today?
 * aquarius sings Land of Hope and Glory, which is excellent
<gord> the ones in the den!
<gord> is that a thing still? not watched uk tv in a while...
<aquarius> although really Jerusalem is closer to being anthem
<Laney> mmm on-the-turn milk
 * Laney decided it was just the right side of OK still
<diplo> I'd rather than drink black tea than have on the turn tbh
<Laney> seems alright
<directhex> you dead yet?
<Laney> /quit Ping Timeout
<diplo> :P
<directhex> connection reset by milk?
<Laney> bessie was feeling vindictive
 * Laney moos uncontrollably
<diplo> Guys is it possible to remove the launcher from a seconndary screen
<diplo> I've found some settings to remove the lag between screens, but I really dont/can;t see the point of two launchers
<diplo> Hmm, I ask and it seems there is a way if I hack a file, wondering if there is a front end way ( make sure I'm not missing an offical way )
<popey> can someone test http://podcast.ubuntu-uk.org/ for me
<popey> and click an episode or two and see if they download?
<diplo> OGG Download works on front page
<diplo> Want the mp3 ones tested as well ?
<popey> any
<diplo> Well yep, grabbed 3 files so far and all downloaded speedily
<diplo> tried streaming one as well and that was also fine
<popey> excellent
<popey> thanks!
<diplo> No worries
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<davmor2> morning all, czajkowski prod
<brobostigon> morning davmor2
<czajkowski> davmor2: Good day to you :)
<davmor2> morning brobostigon, czajkowski what this about airports you on your way home kiddo?
<bigcalm> Hi peeps :)
<popey> yo
<bigcalm> popey: how's the XP?
<davmor2> bigcalm: how do muppet boy
<bigcalm> davmor2: Miss Piggy!
<davmor2> popey: did you blow the dust off your speccy for it's birthday?
<popey> bug 987223
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 987223 in unity "Launcher doesn't autoscroll when holding an icon (can't reach trash)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/987223
<popey> anyone fancy reproducing that
<davmor2> popey: done
<mungojerry> popey, it's a dupe
<mungojerry> bug 985710
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 985710 in unity "cannot drag icon from launcher to trash when the launcher is full of icons" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/985710
<mungojerry> marked my earlier one as a dupe in deference to popey's greater influence :D
<directhex> moo
<mungojerry> baa
<mungojerry> a farmer's version of foo-bar?
<popey> mungojerry: oh, excellent
<popey> bug 983827ï»¿
<lubotu3> Error: Launchpad bug 983827 could not be found
<mungojerry> how do i get shotwell to autorotate photos to the correct way?
<mungojerry> and does importing from pictures folder actually make a copy of the photos?
<BigRedS> I don't think it does by default
<BigRedS> mine didn't, but I didn't want it to and I don't recall asking it to refrain
<MartijnVdS> mungojerry: it should autorotate if your camera sets the "needs rotation" bit in exif
<directhex> hm, rainy
<mungojerry> MartijnVdS, hmm
<mungojerry> in which case they should be rotating
<mungojerry> any idea about the second qu.?
<mungojerry> uploading to google usic takes forever :(
<mungojerry> and all the cover art is wrong :(
<cocoa117> does anyone have /lib/modules/`uname -r`/misc folder in their ubuntu 11.10 system?
<Quantal_Quetzal> \o/
 * davmor2 prods czajkowski just cause
<davmor2> popey: you Quantal_Quetzal you
<sagaci> Pretty Pretzel
<gord> guys, just to be sure, we are all cool with saying "quantal" and not "quetzal" right? lets not have a repeat of oneiric where i had to check my spelling every time i wrote it
<popey> âº
<czajkowski> lol
<cocoa117> is there  a way to patch custermised ubuntu kernel, but only compile the new kernel's module? can make program do that? or it is simply impossible
<popey> cocoa117: http://www.cyberciti.biz/tips/build-linux-kernel-module-against-installed-kernel-source-tree.html
<popey> seen that?
<davmor2> gord: that'll be 12.10 to all of us this time I think :D
<popey> kwont'l is how I say it, with short 'o' sounds as in 'Tom'
<sagaci> Quant as quantity and al as big al
<cocoa117> popey, got it
<davmor2> popey: indeed the free dictionary says it similarly but I still think 12.10 is easier on the tongue :D
<popey> +1
<czajkowski> on the plus side finally a desktop image I'd be happy to have as a default image
<gord> quan as in obi-wan, tal as in tali'zorah vas normandy. i win nerdiest explanation.
<popey> hah
 * davmor2 goes for best terrorist section with quan as in tali-ban and tal as in tal-iban, me thinks he wins this section
<popey> don't listen to these people, they're from the north, they talk funny.
<gord> oh, its spectrums birthday, happy birthday childhood!
<mungojerry> non-digital wintv cards are useless now, right?
<mungojerry> quantal quetzal ?
<bigcalm> !12.10
<lubotu3> Ubuntu 12.10 (Quantal Quetzal) will be the 17th release of Ubuntu, Discussion and support until final release in #ubuntu+1
<bigcalm> Oh gah
<bigcalm> You know how you can really go off a sabdfl?
<davmor2> bigcalm: just remember it's pronounced twelve point ten and there is no issues :D
<mungojerry> LTS+1 is always an easily forgotten distro..
<bigcalm> davmor2: 12.10 it is :)
<bigcalm> SCP is running at 14.7MB/s over a gigabit network
<bigcalm> I has a sad
<davmor2> bigcalm: 2 things, are you using cat6 ethernet cabling across all systems, and are all systems able to make use of gigbit, if there is one system connected that can't it will drop the entire system to 10/100 just to cheer you up
<directhex> davmor2, not on a switch. that's hub behaviour
<directhex> switches have per-port speed
<davmor2> directhex: ah I was close though, the cat6 will still be key though right?
<directhex> davmor2, cat6 for patch cabling? nah. you can easily do gigabit over cat5e. 10gbe really needs cat6, or better, fibre
<gord> 14.7MB/s is still over 100mbit though, i doubt its getting downgraded
<davmor2> Oh god it's happened again http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FO9gFAOAPFQ it's not on par with Narwahls but it's getting there
<AlanBell> bigcalm: you might need to enable large frame sizes if you want to get all of the gigabit goodness
<AlanBell> MTU of 9000
<bigcalm> AlanBell: interesting, things I did not know about
<feisar__> hi I've set 'user     ALL=NOPASSWD:   /usr/bin/rsync' using visudo but when I'm running rsync as that user using sudo it still asks me for a password
<feisar__> why would that be?
<mungojerry> asking for sudo password or rsync/ssh password?
<feisar__> sudo, running the rsync command without sudo works fine
<mungojerry> dunno :-\
<feisar__> ok cheers... strange...
<mungojerry> type which rsync
<bigcalm> That's enough faffing about. Time to blank the Revo and install 12.04
<hamitron> before thursday?
<bigcalm> Oh, this is the alternative image
<bigcalm> It's going to be a server for my parents now that I've completed my own transfer to the Proliant
 * Dave2 hands bigcalm an alternative image.
<bigcalm> Dave2: careful now
<christel> 15:55  * jtrucks munches on a wall.
 * bigcalm tickles christel
<Dave2> i am far too tired and that confused me as to which channel i was in
<christel> err accidental paste thar
<christel> sorry
<zleap> hello
<popey> yo
<zleap> ubuntu manual for 11.10 is out, well it was a month ago, only just found it
<popey> retro
<zleap> yeah
<zleap> however i guess they are working on 12.04 by which time it will be superceeded by 12.10
<popey> 12.04 is more important
<popey> being LTS
<popey> IMO
<zleap> ah, so i guess the manual will get more work done on it
<popey> well, potentially more readers
<popey> given 12.04 is supported for 5 years
<zleap> but i agree with you on that one
<zleap> yeah,   but we need manuals now i guess
<zleap> i have the 10,04 book
<popey> yeah, they did well
<popey> i see the muktware guys are looking to make one too
<zleap> a manual
<davmor2> popey: you still around?
<popey> ya
<davmor2> to quote roughly from demolition man, "Don't you have a thought rattling around in that brain of yours, don't you have a education to perform, shouldn't you be playing games"
<davmor2> popey: have you seen the latest TKMax ads?  I'm pretty sure that Daviey has gotten a call from your agent and is appearing in one of them :D
<popey> lol no
<davmor2> popey: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHLXhKZe6vo&feature=plcp&context=C4af3aa2VDvjVQa1PpcFOjtoIjKAaUwmU93PZYWIgBb5knaZd5szo%3D about 2 seconds in :)
<peeps> while trying to install 12.04 got a message "video mode not supported" any ideas how to fix this?
<popey> peeps: hi
<peeps> hello
<popey> peeps: at what point do you see that?
<popey> sounds like something your display might say
<peeps> at the very start
<peeps> true
<popey> what type of video card / computer is it?
<peeps> looked at my bios and sorted all possible issues out
<peeps> but still the same
<davmor2> peeps: is this running through a kvm?
<peeps> its a home build system
<peeps> winfast mb amd 64
<peeps> onboard graphics
<peeps> 2 gig mem
<popey> so ATI video card?
<davmor2> peeps: also have you tried letting it run for bit,  it could be that it is only the splash screen that the video doesn't support
<peeps> nvidia driven
<peeps> lol, never thought of that one
<peeps> it's my friends PC
<popey> you installing off a USB or CD ?
<peeps> and I'm trying to change him to linux.....lol
<peeps> cd
<popey> âº
<popey> is the cd still spinning when it's blank?
<peeps> yes
<popey> yeah, I'd leave it for a bit
<peeps> so you could be right
<peeps> just never had that one before
<peeps> he run windows and 10.10 no probs
<peeps> when I tried 12.04 that's what I got
<popey> people in #ubuntu+1 - the official support channel - may know more
<peeps> ok thank you very much popey
<ali1234> bug 987485
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 987485 in cups (Ubuntu) "Can only print once with USB to parallel adapter and HP 4L" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/987485
<zleap> i just booted a 12,04 live usb stick  how do i get this hud thing up and the help screen (the one that appears above everything)
<ahayzen> HUD -> press Alt
<ahayzen> Help Screen -> Hold Super key
<MartijnVdS> Press alt?
<bigcalm> Press and hold the super key for help
<bigcalm> Tap alt for the hud
<zleap> that puts numbers in the side bar thing
<MartijnVdS> zleap: hold Super longer
<zleap> windows key right is super
<MartijnVdS> yes
<MartijnVdS> or win key left
<zleap> not working
<zleap> wel i am holding it for more than 30 seconds
<GaryLittlemore> When is 12.04 released?
<zleap> thursday
<GaryLittlemore> thanks
<zleap> np
<zleap> is there  a way to configure the launcher
<zleap> hm, compiz settings manager is not installed
<popey> zleap: you are probably in unity 2d
<popey> there is no overlay in 2d
<zleap> ok
<popey> and ccsm isnt installed by default
<popey> not that it would help you if you're in 2d
<zleap> i just booted the live usb stick
<popey> what video card?
<zleap> not sure,  its on my netbook
<popey> what netbook?
<zleap> compiz works fine on 11.10
<zleap> dell 10v
<popey> open a terminal
<popey> lspci | grep VGA
<zleap> intel 945gce
<popey> interesting
<zleap> as i said it works with 11.10 so i guess if I install 12.04 and enable stuff it will work
<MartijnVdS> Aren't 945s the old hardware-buggy kind of Intel graphics chip?
<zleap> dunno
<ali1234> no, 945 works quite well
<MartijnVdS> zleap: xorg.conf should tell you
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: which one was buggy then?
<MartijnVdS> were
<ali1234> it's the core i3+ integrated graphics that don't work properly
<zleap> i have 11.10 running normally just looking at 12.04
<zleap> well the compiz settngs screen does not even fit on the screen, so using the work space viewer to see all of it
<zleap> the screen is from the installer
<zleap> so i have the software centre install screen up
<MartijnVdS> zleap: /usr/lib/nux/unity_support_test -p
<zleap> yes to everything
<popey> zleap: open a terminal... ps -aux | grep compiz
<popey> is it running?
<zleap> yes
<popey> right, you're in unity 3d then
<zleap> or i think it is
<zleap> ok
<popey> is there more than one line with compiz in it?
<popey> not just the grep line
<zleap> yes
<zleap> top line is compiz i think,
<popey> ok
<zleap> so if I press super i get numbers on the launcher icons,  if i hold it down longer i should get a help screen thing up
<popey> it might not appear if your screen is too low res maybe
<zleap> 1024x600
<zleap> its a netbook
 * popey tries on a netbook here
<zleap> well 12.04 is probably going to go on my spare emachines partition anyway
<zleap> currently have 11.10 / linpus (or what ever it was called) and a recovery partition
<popey> yeah, it doesnt appear here either
<zleap> ok
<zleap> maybe something else could be displayedf
<zleap> as if people expect it to appear and it doesn't you will get lots of people with the same issue, i guess
<popey> i dont think people will expect it to appear
<zleap> or its something to note in any manuals / documentation at least,  may not work on small screens
<zleap> ok
<popey> for most people it's a giant surprise that it exists at all
<zleap> ah
<zleap> is there a way to get it on 11.10
<zleap> i can test on main computer then
<popey> if you code it, yes
<zleap> duh,  i could boot the live usb stick on main computer i guess
<ojrid> hey there
<popey> hello
<ojrid> wats ap
<hank3three3> how can I find Users, I can find User Accounts but not Users
<hank3three3> oh, sorry I am running 12.04
<bigcalm> My two 12.04 servers no longer say they are running the development branch
<bigcalm> Things must be close
<hamitron> servers? :|
<hamitron> damn you live life to the max ;)
<bigcalm> Works just fine
<bigcalm> I only use LTS releases on servers
<bigcalm> Sleep now
<hamitron> same, but I normally wait 6 months
<hamitron> till after release
<hamitron> ;)
<bigcalm> Bugs don't get fixed like that!
<hamitron> true
<hamitron> I've just changed to an ISP with unmetered downloads on evenings
<hamitron> so may help next time
<daftykins> ahoy!
<hamitron> evening
<daftykins> another day
<daftykins> still deaf in one ear
<daftykins> how annoying :)
<hamitron> :/
#ubuntu-uk 2012-04-24
<directhex> moo
<Azelphur> baa
<Jora> im here you can critisize me now lol
<ging> who is that aimed at?
<Azelphur> I think it was open season
<Azelphur> Jora: YOUR FACE IS WEIRD.
<Jora> Your mommas so fat she make da pillsbury doughboy look anorexic
<Azelphur> oshi-
<Jora> you can't handle it, you just can't
<Jora> I just insulted your momma and you don't have anything to say for it. Tsk tsk.
<Azelphur> indeed :<
<Azelphur> I'm out-insulted
<ging> you upset Dave2
<Azelphur> odeer
<Jora> I really offended Dave2
<MartijnVdS> !coc
<lubotu3> The Ubuntu Code of Conduct is a community etiquette document to which we ask all Ubuntu users to adhere, and can be found at http://www.ubuntu.com/community/conduct/ | For information on how to electronically sign the CoC, see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SigningCodeofConduct
<Jora> Oh dear, I was just joking around and none of my comments were to be taken seriously.
<PerfM> Sup bitches
<PerfM> ubuntu sucks rite
<DJones> Morning all
<mattt> what's with the trolls?
<DJones> Was wondering that myself
<daubers> Morning
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<DJones> Morning bigcalm
<zleap> hi franred
<franred> hi zleap
<bigcalm> Hi DJones
<MooDoo> gekki all
<MooDoo> that would be hello
<MooDoo> if my fingers were in the right place on the keyboard
<mattt> BOOYA
<mattt> err
<mattt> booya
<AlanBell> morning all
<bigcalm> Hi AlanBell
<bigcalm> I have the choice of using XML RPC or SOAP to interface with PayPoint.net for credit card transactions. Which is the better tech or possibly easier to use with PHP?
<mungojerry> does any pdf reader on ubuntu allow highlighting of sections of the pdf doc?
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: If you get WSDLs and XSDs, SOAP should be a breeze (though I don't know if PHP has libraries to cope with those correctly)
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: XML-RPC is easier on the XML libraries, and I know there's a good client for PHP
<directhex> bigcalm, i like SOAP personally, due to WSDL. but i don't know if php is usable with WSDL
<directhex> erm, what MartijnVdS said
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: good thing about PHP is that it has a lot of community driven libraries for most protocols
<bigcalm> Thanks guys :)
<AlanBell> mungojerry: I don't think so, annotation support is rather limited (never once wanted to use it myself)
<mungojerry> :(
<mungojerry> very useful on kindle books i read
<mungojerry> might have to try pdf->mobi
<mungojerry> which button do i press? http://ubuntuone.com/1NTXfMot6EIodnZGGEID7o
<AlanBell> details
<mungojerry> was not very enlightening
<mungojerry> i want to continue, saying go ahead..
<AlanBell> presumeably you are installing something from a PPA and are not surprised to see this message
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: In Perl, I'd go for XML::Compile::SOAP (which has a WSDL module) :)
<mungojerry> AlanBell, not intentionally
<mungojerry> i ham installing calibre - is that in normal repos?
<DJones> mungojerry: Yes
<AlanBell> it says it is fixing something, perhaps you have something else from a ppa
<mungojerry> AlanBell, true, maybe something else is newer in a ppa, but still no button to say, OK, continue as agreed
<mungojerry> disabling gimp repo and OSD-history repo...
<mungojerry> otherwise software centre crashes when i continue (known bug.)
<JamesTait> Good morning, all! *8O)
<mungojerry> AlanBell, i discovered okular does highlighting,
<mungojerry> (and also much quicker than evince at reading docs)
<mungojerry> haven't discovered a way of saving the highlights yet ;(
<mungojerry> ah, it saves them , but not if i do "save as.." a diffrent document
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<bigcalm> Hi brobostigon
<bigcalm> Morning davmor2
<brobostigon> hi bigcalm
<davmor2> morning bigcalm and all
<sircrashalot> Installed 12.04 beta 2 on the netbook.  It's looking quite nice
<sircrashalot> I like the desktop background applied to the login screen
<czajkowski> AlanBell: feeling better?
<AlanBell> nope
 * AlanBell needs sympathy
<czajkowski> :(
<czajkowski> AlanBell: how are the chickens?
<AlanBell> better than me ;)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Wazzup AlanBell?
<AlanBell> just sitting here chain-drinking lemsips
<TheOpenSourcerer> Ah - I had a cold last week.
<AlanBell> (no, not exceeding the appropriate dose)
<AlanBell> need to be fixed by tomorrow evening, I am podcasting
 * brobostigon sends AlanBell some pain killers.
 * BigRedS sends AlanBell some Guinness
<marxjohnson> AlanBell: dont worry, you'll be in good company. I also have the dreaded lurgy.
<mattt> anyone here familiar w/ packaging debian packages?
<sircrashalot> To some extent
<BigRedS> I've seen several of them
<mattt> i'm trying to modify the setup.py to include file.conf instead of file.conf.example
<mattt> but whenever the package is built, it refuses to include that file
<mattt> it's like python's setuptools only wants file.conf.example
<mattt> bit vague, but any suggestions?  :P
<mattt> i guess i could handle the mv of file.conf.example in the postinst file, but that doesn't feel right
<directhex> i'm familiar with debian packaging, but not for toy languages
<mattt> oh burn
<BigRedS> haha
<AlanBell> mattt: maybe try #ubuntu-motu
<mattt> AlanBell: it's actually a python setuptools thing me thinks
<mattt> but thanks
 * AlanBell likes playing with toy languages
<mattt> me too :P
<mattt> https://github.com/BrightcoveOS/Diamond is very cool
<mattt> MANIFEST.in => exclude         conf/*.conf
<mattt> well herp derp
<mattt> silly toy language and their silly toy setup tools
<sircrashalot> Handbags at dawn
<mungojerry> micro SDHC cards seem rather susceptible to dying :-\
<bigcalm> Buy good quality ones, I've had no problems with SanDisk
<mungojerry> i have a sandisk one
<mungojerry> hmm or maybe samsung
<mungojerry> OS does not even recognise
<mungojerry> another 32gb one is playing up too
<MartijnVdS> mungojerry: SDHC cards in pre-SDHC readers can be flaky
<MartijnVdS> I bought a new card reader and all my cards work now.. before it was very hit & miss
<directhex> bear in mind a LOT of counterfeit SD cards are on the market
<directhex> fake sandisks are common
<sircrashalot> Indeed, I bought one a couple of years ago
<sircrashalot> Looked like a bargain...but
<BigRedS> I recall there being a Dropbox-alike thingy that I can download and run the server part of, anyone agree and know what it is?
<sircrashalot> sparkleshare?
<BigRedS> sircrashalot: yes! Thanks!
<mungojerry> MartijnVdS, i plugged it into a phone aswell :-\
 * popey notes #ubuntu-release-party is open for business
<directhex> why?
<popey> why did I note it?
<popey> or why is it open?
<directhex> the latter!
<Myrtti> why wouldn't it be?
 * bigcalm flumps
<davmor2> bigcalm: arrrrr god I can smell that over here, smells like burning garbage, oh no the incinerators on :D
 * bigcalm tuts
<cocoa117> what is non-DFSG-free?
<popey> Debian Free Software Guidelines
<popey> if something is non-DFSG-free then it doesn't conform to those guidelines
<popey> http://people.debian.org/~bap/dfsg-faq.html
<cocoa117> popey, got it
 * daubers writes yet more job specs
<MartijnVdS> hiring spree?
<daubers> indeed
<diplo->  o/
<diplo-> If only it wasn't in Reading :(
<mattt> daubers: what is it?
<daubers> mattt: Potentially 2 roles, one "support" type engineer, one python engineer
<mattt> funky, which company?  :P
<daubers> mattt: http://www.gblabs.co.uk
<daubers> though no job specs yet
<daubers> still typing them :(
<mattt> aldemaston, that's not too far from me
<popey> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/compiz/+bug/987871
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 987871 in compiz (Ubuntu) "Flicker when switching desktops" [Undecided,New]
<popey> can anyone reproduce that?
 * bigcalm grabs his laptop
<diplo-> Slight stutter first time I did it
<diplo-> Hardly noticeable after
<dogmatic69> popey: happens 90% of the time for me
<davmor2> popey: the only kinda flicker I get is the title in the bar changing
<bigcalm> It appears to draw the screen, blank it and then animate the screen coming into view
<popey> dogmatic69: yay!
<popey> dogmatic69: can you confirm it?
 * dogmatic69 hit confirmed already
<popey> just hit the "affects me too" thing
<popey> ah, cool, ta
<bigcalm> Just one update since the weekend? I sense the quiet before the storm
<davmor2> big you sense the quite before the sru fixes hit is that what you are trying to say ;)
<davmor2> bigcalm: even ^ must not of hit tab hard enough :D
<Myrtti> bigcalm: I got a reply from O'Reilly \o/
<popey> bug 987897
<lubotu3> Error: Launchpad bug 987897 could not be found
<popey> bug 987879
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 987879 in compiz (Ubuntu) "Panel drop shadow shows as a black line in workspace switcher" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/987879
<popey> thats an easy one to replicate :D
<davmor2> popey: ha nice it does in the c-a-â but not if you click on the workspace icon
<AlanBell> Myrtti: are they sending you books?
<Myrtti> yeah \o/
<davmor2> AlanBell: I see you're stirring up trouble ref authentication of lenses :D
<AlanBell> davmor2: engaging in a productive discussion
<AlanBell> no trouble in that discussion yet (though I fully expect Ryan Guager to continue to probe the boundaries in that thread too)
<gord> the google doodle today is fun :)
<davmor2> AlanBell: Yeah, yeah if that's the term you use down South ;)  What you might think about is simply asking the user to add an entry in seahorse for the app, ie add a password description: openCRM password: user=<opencrmlogin>,password=<opencrmpassword>  and at least see if you can hook into it from a lens
<AlanBell> well I know that seahorse==passwords and keys, but not everyone does
<AlanBell> I just opened the thing and I have no clue how to add a password
<AlanBell> ah right, file-new. And how do I tell it what server to use?
<davmor2> AlanBell: no server you use stored password
<AlanBell> sure, but where do I specify the server?
<davmor2> AlanBell: drop it in the login keyring
<davmor2> AlanBell: you do description as the name of the app
<AlanBell> the server is going to be myserver.mycompany.co.uk or 192.168.3.2 or something like that
<AlanBell> I know what software it will be running, but not where it is installed
<ali1234> wat
<davmor2> AlanBell: and then for the password do opencrm_login=abc,opencrm_password=xyz,server=serverip/address
<AlanBell> ok
<AlanBell> in the description rather, you just shove it all in there in a random format
<AlanBell> or do you actually mean to shove that stuff in the password field??
<AlanBell> can any application read any passwords from the gnome-keyring?
<davmor2> in password description just needs to be a keyword for the keydb
<popey> AlanBell: http://live.gnome.org/GnomeKeyring/SecurityPhilosophy
<davmor2> AlanBell: python can not sure how though
<AlanBell> that is a bit of a worry
<AlanBell> so allowing a lens or something to store it's password in gnome-keyring means it can retreive all your passwords
<BigRedS> huh?
<BigRedS> surely gnome-keyring knows which passwords are stored by what?
<AlanBell> nope
<BigRedS> haha, wonderful
<AiRLocK> Hello everybody, I need help with something really weird that is happening with a PC of mine.
<AiRLocK> The machine is an ASUS M2N-MX with AMD AM2+ 64 bit dual core CPU running ubuntu 11.10 64 bit
<bigcalm> Myrtti: yay. I take it that they returned with good news?
<Myrtti> yeah :-)
<bigcalm> Wonderful :)
<popey> TheOpenSourcerer: thanks for the reminder!
<TheOpenSourcerer> hey popey
<TheOpenSourcerer> NP
<TheOpenSourcerer> It is you + 1 right?
<popey> need to check the +1
<popey> will do that now
<TheOpenSourcerer> Gosh - Google Drive is out but no Linux client :-( https://drive.google.com/start#features
<Azelphur> I like dropbox :p
<TheOpenSourcerer> Me too Azelphur
<Azelphur> there's a dude on bitmit that will spam you with dropbox referrals for 0.3BTC (~90 pence)
<Azelphur> so I have like 18GB
<popey> i love U1 âº
<Azelphur> I tried U1 a while back, but I really need right click > copy public link, and they didn't have it then dunno if they do now
<Azelphur> I mainly use dropbox as a public file hosting space
<popey> we do
<Azelphur> hehe, new :)
<gord> not really, quite old :P
<popey> pretty sure we had it before dropbox
<Azelphur> popey: nah definitely not, I remember using dropbox, and trying out U1 and it not having that feature so going back again
<daftykins> ;)
<daftykins> my coder friend is horrified at dropbox' mem usage on Windows
<daftykins> evening all o/
<daftykins> i have one extremely clean house as of today
<daftykins> and two estate agents fighting for the role to sell it for me
<Aivaras> Does Scotland have own ubuntu irc chanel?
<daftykins> *shrug*
<daftykins> is there even a Scottish TLD?
<Azelphur> http://loco.ubuntu.com/teams/
<Azelphur> I don't see one
<Aivaras> where ever I go, there is no linux users :D
<daftykins> Aivaras: maybe you scare them away
<Aivaras> daftykins, well I'm trying find them... I'm organising release parties in my city and have done presentations about ubuntu in local schools
<daftykins> interesting, did you contact the schools and they said 'sure come talk about <thing i don't understand>' ? :>
<Azelphur> http://loadingreadyrun.com/videos/view/201/Installation old video, but awesome :P
<popey> Aivaras: scotlug
<popey> #scotlug has lots of people in it
<Azelphur> MWAVE$ xD
<daftykins> XD
<daftykins> "that's what they said to Galileo"
<daftykins> XD
<Azelphur> hehe
<daftykins> ah good times
<daftykins> i love the way you can install it on practically anything but really once you get there it's like "well, er, ok i'm done"
<Azelphur> haha
<Aivaras> daftykins, I contacted schools from Univesitie so they don't give a **** about what are you going to talk while you are with university :D
<daftykins> oic
<daftykins> "That was a lovely young man, i wonder what he was talking about. Oh well!" :D
<Aivaras> daftykins, Yeah, basicly. Must have: black suit :D
<daftykins> =]
<Aivaras> daftykins, from my point of view - schools are open for people to share ideas with students :)
<daftykins> they certainly should be
<Aivaras> I was to five schools, all accepted :)
<daftykins> neat
<daftykins> hand out discs at the time or?
<Aivaras> yeah, had CDs, also had computer class for live demonstration :)
<Aivaras> Burned 200 CDs that time... :D
<Aivaras> For 12.04 release party at friday - four people are registered... :(
<Aivaras> Funny fact: I'm organising release parties for ubuntu, but have never used it for a longer then a week :D
<daftykins> XD
<daftykins> may be interesting if you get any complex installation woes to troubleshoot then
<daftykins> were anyone to ask for help / get involved in any
<ali1234> i'd always suspected that most ubuntu advocates just like advocating things and don't really have any understanding of the OS or the ideals behind it
<Aivaras> daftykins, I know debian and arch linux well :D
<Aivaras> ali1234, I'm not for ubuntu. I'm for linux, but ubuntu seems to be the most suitible for new users so...
<ali1234> not really
<daftykins> Aivaras: oic
<ali1234> ubuntu is suitable for new users only if they bought hardware with it already installed
<ali1234> after-market installs aren't really the focus any more, it's all about convincing OEMs to ship it at this point
<ali1234> (and this is what i meant about not understanding the ideals - the ideals have changed quite a bit in the past couple of years)
<daftykins> is it ever going to happen given the widely understood approach Microsoft have to getting exclusivity though?
<Aivaras> ali1234, 1) the lot of users (easy to find help), 2) good hw support, 3) everything (+/-) is preinstalled
<ali1234> if you need any of those things you are much better off buying a mac
<Aivaras> I don't need - new users does
<ali1234> daftykins: microsoft is dead, it's a walking corpse, and it has been for a couple of years now
<Aivaras> walking?
<Aivaras> no way :D
<ali1234> everything has changed
<ali1234> microsoft is no longer the company you have to beat. not it is google and apple
<Aivaras> crawling - the best I can say about m$ :D
<ali1234> this is the reason microsoft has made windows 8 into something crazy
<ali1234> that last time they did that was with windows xp when they were severly lagging behind everyone else in internet support
<ali1234> and we know how well that turned out: their product was highly insecure and it basically destroyed consumer confidence in PCs
<ali1234> now people are afraid to go online in case they get a virus or someone steals their bank details
<ali1234> the way you advocate ubuntu is the same way microsoft sold windows xp 10+ years ago
<ali1234> you can get online straight away, it's secure, and you can get help easily. you don;t need to learn anything...
<davmor2> bigcalm: you about still?
<Aivaras> Well, I have to kill myself now... I spoiled much children lifes then :(
<daftykins> what's promoting this idea of easy help for Ubuntu?
<ali1234> i don't know
<daftykins> if i had a problem i'd come on here, but i haven't had the best luck with that approach...
<dogmatic69> how do I get the current build info?
<dogmatic69> want to update a bug and say it seems to work with the latest updates
<ali1234> basically every time you replace a compromised windows install with ubuntu you are lowering the average intelligence of ubuntu users, and therefore making the platform an easier target
<daftykins> the bug works! \o/
<daftykins> wait what? :>
<brobostigon> ch5, pub dig, my local, :) :(
<ali1234> it's happening to apple right now as ex-windows xp users move to it rather than 7
<ali1234> or rather, they are moved to it by well meaning computer literate relatives
<daftykins> i've definitely felt i'm losing market potential not having more OS X exposure
<daftykins> still think macs are a joke though XD
<Aivaras> "still think macs are a joke though" you sir deserved a medal :D
<ali1234> the real joke is giving an incredibly powerful tool to someone who has no idea how to use it...
<daftykins> Aivaras: you agree or? :)
<Aivaras> daftykins, How could I argue? :D
<daftykins> dunno, you might don a monacle and say I LOVE THE SHINY
<Aivaras> Well, I own an iPod ;D
<daftykins> get out.
<daftykins> ;)
<Aivaras> look at mp3 players now :)
<Aivaras> Market is dead.
<ali1234> i don't know anyone who still carries one
<daftykins> me o/
<Aivaras> Because they like listen crappy quality music with crapy headphones with phones.
<Aivaras> No offence.
<daftykins> i'm this very moment plugged into a creative labs muvo2 4GB player
<ali1234> phone hardware is identical to mp3 player hardware
<daftykins> to V0 transcoded MP3 (from FLAC) with very good Technics cans :D
<daftykins> my phone still sounds a bit crap compared to this ancient player
<Aivaras> ali1234, Google about Digital analog Converter :)
<daftykins> and the 'phones are definitely not the weak link
<ali1234> oh please, don't give me that audiophile rubbish
<ali1234> the weak link is the file compression
<Aivaras> Its not rubbish. It is not about gold vs cooper cables with identical resistence.
<Aivaras> ali1234, of course if you are listening to 126 kbps mp3 rip.
<Aivaras> And one more weak link is headphones.
<daftykins> he's rather fond of his 96Kbps Britney collection!
<Aivaras> WHat is bitrate of standart audio CD?
<Aivaras> btw daftykins - this is the reason of buying an iPod :) http://twitpic.com/949gcu
<daftykins> 1411Kbps
<daftykins> getting a chavvy head unit and having the brand logo show up?
<daftykins> wowzer
<Aivaras> Ability to have same music in car, on the go. :)
<daftykins> i might learn to drive once i get home
<daftykins> 27, 10 years of money saved is probably enough ^_^
<Aivaras> Where are you form?
<daftykins> Guernsey
<daftykins> trying to think of music to chuck on my portable :S
<daftykins> i miss the days when i could fit my whole collection on my 20GB creative zen
<Aivaras> daftykins, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thirteen_(Megadeth_album) take this :)
<daftykins> huge diary size thing XD
<jacobw> what do you have now?
 * jacobw scrolled
<Aivaras> jacobw, Sorry about that
<jacobw> lol @ digital to analogue converter
<daftykins> ugh
<daftykins> know that feeling when you're not in the mood for anything you've got?
<daftykins> or can't work out your mood...
<Aivaras> So open irc and look for channels to flood :D
<daftykins> hmm Aphex Twin may work...
<Aivaras> wiki says that it is electronics :(
<daftykins> ultimately, yeah
<Aivaras> I thooth we were talking about music... :D
<daftykins> well you can't go judging by one name ^_^
<Aivaras> I don't.
<daftykins> yeah just joking
<daftykins> Rage were a close second choice
<Aivaras> I just don't think about electrical noise as music.
<daftykins> so you don't like guitars? :D
<Aivaras> I like quitars, i don't like computer that plays them. :D
<daftykins> ok now what to have for food
<daftykins> Aivaras: do you use last.fm ?
<ali1234> aphex twin is quite well known for using analogue synthesizers
<Aivaras> daftykins, Not really.
<daftykins> yeah loves his old hardware so i hear
<daftykins> Aivaras: www.last.fm/user/daftykins
<ali1234> squarepushers is really a jazz bassist by default
<daftykins> doesn't get my portable plays mind
<MartijnVdS> \o/ laptop has SSD now
<MartijnVdS> so quiet
<daftykins> :)
<daftykins> you can fling it around safely now :D
<MartijnVdS> exactly
<MartijnVdS> The installer is broken with btrfs root though :(
<Aivaras> daftykins, "Music you have in common includes Alice Cooper, Third Eye Blind, Led Zeppelin and Nirvana" :D
<jacobw> does it fsck yet?
<MartijnVdS> jacobw: eys
<jacobw> :D
<daftykins> Aivaras: \o/
<jacobw> i so want to use btrfs in production
<ali1234> anyone else following dholbach on g+? i didn't know he was also a DJ :)
<jacobw> i didn't know that
<ali1234> http://www.mixcloud.com/dholbach
<jacobw> zfs is the filesystem, but i don't want to deal with bsd or solaris
<MartijnVdS> He has been one for ages
<daftykins> 12TB RAID6 array i did last for a client i put XFS on
<daftykins> as i read it's good with big files
<daftykins> so, HD films and DVD ISOs (his film collection)
<jacobw> i haven't heard about xfs for a long time
<daftykins> ooh-err, did i back a dead horse?
<jacobw> i remember running suse 10.0 with an xfs root
<jacobw> for the live resize capability that i didn't need :|
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> amuses me when peeps sometimes tout features of technologies they never use
<daftykins> but it can feed me bagels in a hospital bed!
<daftykins> i... see
<jacobw> heh
 * jacobw wonders how a bagel feeding machine would depend on a hospital bed
<daftykins> because you'd not be able to feed yourself in such a predicament
<daftykins> trust me, i thought it through
<jacobw> i don't think you have :(
<daftykins> then we shall speak of it no more
 * jacobw thinks about puppet vs chef
<daftykins> ?
<jacobw> configuration management tool chains
<jacobw> both of these things compete in the devops space
<jacobw> along with canonical's juju
 * jacobw disregards juju
<jacobw> chef feels proprietary to me :(
<MartijnVdS> we use puppet at work
<MartijnVdS> deploy = make .deb, upload to local archive server
<MartijnVdS> have puppet upgrade the packages automatically
<MartijnVdS> \o/
<jacobw> :)
<jacobw> i like distributing configuration by dpkg but i have to manage several rhel machines
<Aivaras> my internet connection is too slow even for ssh :(
<BigRedS> every time I've seen anyone ask about a problem with chef, the solution mooted tends to be 'puppet'
<BigRedS> that's mostly why we went with puppet at work
<jacobw> what's your latency?
<MartijnVdS> jacobw: /etc/ files are managed by puppet
<Aivaras> jacobw, not the latency is the problem but unstable connection
<Aivaras> http://www.speedtest.net/result/1913446245.png and speed of course...
<directhex> i'm almost out of red bull cola :/
<brobostigon> :(
<bigcalm> directhex: what about the rum supply?
<brobostigon> directhex: did you see pub dig in banbury on ch5?
<directhex> brobostigon: non!
<brobostigon> directhex: :(
<directhex> bigcalm: looking good on rum. still have some diplomatico to finish off
<directhex> brobostigon: miiddleton road was closed again due to exploding
<bigcalm> I know nothing of rum types/names :)
<brobostigon> directhex: a bomb apparently.
<directhex> brobostigon: more WW1 phosphorous anti-tank shells found in the building site next to tesco express
<brobostigon> directhex: i think so, yes.
<brobostigon> directhex: fancy meeting up for a ber again, sometime?
<brobostigon> beer*
<directhex> sure, that can be arranged
<brobostigon> directhex: you get hold of me, and me can work from there.
<brobostigon> directhex: as ofcourse, you have your wife to think about.
<daftykins> by that he means ask permission from ;)
<daftykins> me and a friend drew up a "<friends name here> request form" for such purposes \o/
<brobostigon> ummm,
<brobostigon> welll.
<daftykins> yeah it's just me and my sense of humour again
<daftykins> don't worry
<brobostigon> :)
<brobostigon> directhex: thursday, reinedeerm quiz ?
<brobostigon> reinedeer*
<AlanBell> what is the point of instagram?
<AlanBell> it makes pictures square and with fuzzy edges or something?
<Laney> ctrl-alt-shift+arrows is very hard to type on my laptop
 * Laney is giving unity a go
<Aivaras> AlanBell, Are you want to know why would ever pay for it 1B USD?
<AlanBell> well I don't think that has an answer, but why would lots of people find it compelling?
<Aivaras> AlanBell, People are stupid.
<ali1234>  /bubble
<ali1234> it's not the same tech bubble as last time. this time it involves mobile phones
<Aivaras> After android got instagram, all the geeks in my twitter feed switched to it just because its new and... well new :D
<BigRedS> AlanBell: that's basically it. I think it goes along with everybody being a photographer at the moment
<ali1234> what is instagram?
<AlanBell> I hadn't heard of it until it got bought
<ali1234> all the "geeks" are on g+
<AlanBell> I think I may have seen a few square pictures on twitter, but didn't attach much significance to it
<ali1234> also i really hate when people use "geek" and "nerd" to describe themselves
<ali1234> no true geek or nerd would self identify that way
<ali1234> it's like how "hacker" is misused, except in reverse
<BigRedS> AlanBell: then you're just not their target market and nor are the people whose photos you look at
<Aivaras> Real question is what is a geek...
<ali1234> a geek is the horrible charactature you see on shows like the big bang theory
<popey> or the people who attend LUG meetings and install tiling window managers that require recompilation in order to configure
<Aivaras> shelon uses windows... :D
<popey> he's not real, you know that? âº
<Aivaras> sheldon*
 * Laney looks at his xmonad config
 * Laney hides
<Aivaras> I know, but ali1234 seams to not know :D
<daftykins> funnily enough i'm watching BBT right now :O
<daftykins> mostly because my friend had it and i've no way to get TV right now XD
<Aivaras> is new episode out?
<daftykins> nah i'm on s1
<Aivaras> oh lucky you
<Aivaras> Game of Thrones 02 04 is on the way to my PC :))
<daftykins> not touched that one
<daftykins> nor read, not fond of fantasy lark
<Aivaras> And you don't read the book do you?
<daftykins> Aivaras: that's the 'nor read' part yeah :D
<Aivaras> Sorry, I was wathing into the other monitor while typing :D
<AlanBell> lemsip with wiskey sounds like a good idea
<silner> Ever notice how phenylephrine + alcohol doesn't have the same ring to it :)
<Laney> can I turn off the super+numbers thing (to quick launch applications) in unity?
<ali1234> you can change "key to show launcher" to "disabled"
<ali1234> that will also disable the shortcut help window
<Laney> ideally I would still be able to get to the dash
<ali1234> you can
<ali1234> just click the bfb
<Laney> via keyboard
<ali1234> then no, it is impossible
<Laney> ho hom
<Laney> hum
<Aivaras> email from boss went to a spam box :DD Well played google! :D
<popey> is your boss called Mr.viagra@cialis.com ?
<Aivaras> In that case I would already sold some viagra to you. :D
<zleap> anyone seen this http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/332690/20120424/usb-vintage-typewriter-keyboard-mac-pc-ipad.htm
<zleap> usb typewriter
<gord> if i see anyone using that with an ipad, i'm going to slap them
<ali1234> does an ipad even have usb?
<daftykins> didn't think so
<daftykins> ah dock connector
<daftykins> maybe they can use that
<shauno> it'll actually use a lot more devices than it claims over the 'camera connector' kit thing
<daftykins> Checking domains..
<daftykins> techblo.gg, 1 years Â£47
<daftykins> .gg are so expensive >_<
<brobostigon> .me.uk is dirt cheap.
<brobostigon> think it is possible, to hire, nick mason, to play your birthday, and then play with him ?
<dogmatic69> anyone have issues with copy / paste?
<dogmatic69> sometimes it does not work :(
<Azelphur> dogmatic69: I bet it's because you copy, close the application, then try to paste
<Azelphur> that annoys the crap outta me
<dogmatic69> I bet its not :/
<dogmatic69> copy from netbeans alt-tab to chrome -> paste broken
<dogmatic69> cant paste into textarea, but I can paste in the url bar
<dogmatic69> can also paste here
<dogmatic69> cant paste to any fields in chrome / google chrome but works here, libreoffice, url bar etc
<dogmatic69> hmm, I can copy from chrome and paste it back in
#ubuntu-uk 2012-04-25
<MooDoo> morning all
<TheOpenSourcerer> morning MooDoo
<TheOpenSourcerer> and everyone else.
<popey> morning
<TheOpenSourcerer> lo popey
<TheOpenSourcerer> Blimey it's wet here today.
<diplo> Morning
<daubers> Morning
<hoover_> hi folks
<czajkowski> aloha
<MooDoo> morning czajkowski
<czajkowski> MooDoo: howdy hows you
<MooDoo> czajkowski: i'm not bad thanks :D
<popey> http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=valve_linux_dampfnudeln&num=1
<TheOpenSourcerer> So it really is going to happen then... Steam 4 Linux.
<popey> looks like it
 * DJones checks the date to see if its April 1st
<andylockran> lol :)
<diplo> nice find popey
<diplo> Thought some one would have to do it eventually, especially seeing the sales on indie bundles etc
<JamesTait> Morning all! *8OD
<bigcalm> Morning peeps :)
<andylockran> mornig bigcalm
<andylockran> how goes things?
<bigcalm> Rabbit in headlights :)
<bigcalm> You?
<mungojerry> i just noticed they fixed a global menu issue with dual monitors the other day :D
<mungojerry> now the window title doesn't show on the screen without the active window
<awilkins> OOh, Steam and Source on Linux #squeee
<mungojerry> awilkins, i may be getting ahead of myself, but they could provide their own OS, rather than depend on supporting windows7/8/etc
<mungojerry> (and a console)
<awilkins> Well, there is that
<awilkins> They've been recruiting hardware bods
<awilkins> I always thought MS were missing a trick not making XBox-OS for the PC
<awilkins> A cut-down version of Windows just for playing games
<mungojerry> i have to open up my pc, and switch sata cables just to play a game atm
<BigRedS> awilkins: surely that'd be neither XBox nor Windows, though?
<BigRedS> and they probably don't like the idea of push Windows as only being good for gaming
<awilkins> Well, true
<awilkins> People might only use that
<awilkins> I stopped using Windows for my primary productivity years ago
<BigRedS> yeah, I think that goes for most of us
<BigRedS> but I don't think MS want to create an OS that advertises that :)
<awilkins> A shame I still need it for email, office documents, etc
<awilkins> LibreOffice is all very well *functionally* but the compatibility still bites
<awilkins> Our email server is trapped behind an auth gateway that so far no-one has produced an open client implementation for
<awilkins> So it's Outlook, VPN, or OWA (uck)
<directhex> mungojerry, why not just use a boot loader menu?
<mungojerry> directhex, insufficient sata ports, windows is installed on a separate disk :D
<directhex> how many drives do you have??!
<mungojerry> i have a lowprofile PC with only 2 sata ports. :(
<mungojerry> the larger PC was too heavy to carry home.
<mungojerry> so i brought the smaller one :)
<awilkins> I was thwarted when I bought my new motherboard and discovered that it had no IDE ports
<awilkins> I had to buy a new optical drive. Not installed it yet.
<directhex> awilkins, well, no, it's 2012. they don't have RS232 either
<awilkins> Or PS/2
<awilkins> Which is annoying
<awilkins> Model M forever!
<awilkins> (I got a USB -> PS/2 dongle)
<directhex> i think it was intel's ICH8 (maybe ICH9, i'd need to look it up) southbridge controller which eliminated most legacy support, including IDE. so to offer an IDE port, a motherboard needs to pay for an extra chip e.g. a jmicron IDE controller
<directhex> "ICH8 is offered in several different versions and is the complement to the 965 class MCH chips. The non-mobile ICH8 does not have a traditional PATA interface, and just one AC'97. In practice, most baseboard manufacturers would like to still support and offer PATA appropriate connection types over additional chips of JMicron or Marvell."
<directhex> ICH8 was on P965 and similar chipsets, from 2006
<mungojerry> directhex, was looking at sparkleshare yesterday, noticed u were the packager :P
<directhex> not the main one, i just made one upload or two
<mungojerry> yeah,
<mungojerry> have got a couple of guys at work into it
<davmor2> morning all you funky people
<MooDoo> morning davmor2
<davmor2> MooDoo: morning dude, at least one of you is funky ;)
<bigcalm> davmor2: you pinged me last night
<davmor2> bigcalm: yeah did you take out all the memory from your hp server before you put the new stuff in?  Was it 2gb if so if it fits mine would you be interested in selling it?
<bigcalm> davmor2: yep, I have it spare
<davmor2> bigcalm: cool I'll double check what mine take but I have a horrible feeling it might be ddr2 not 3
<bigcalm> Ok
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<selinuxium> morning all   o/
<brobostigon> morning selinuxium
<selinuxium> Hiya brobostigon, you good?
<brobostigon> selinuxium: yes, i think so, mostly. and you?
<selinuxium> Not too bad thanks. :)
<brobostigon> :)
<davmor2> bigcalm: meh DDR2 :(
<gord> i still read dance dance revolution...
<directhex> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-sH53vXP2A&feature=related
<MartijnVdS> gord: not East Germany?
<bigcalm> davmor2: so this ddr3 won't work in your box?
<MartijnVdS> gord: Deutsche Demokratische Republik (German), the German Democratic Republic (English), i.e., the former East Germany, a state in Europe, 1949â90
<davmor2> bigcalm: Nope
<bigcalm> davmor2: That's sucky
<davmor2> bigcalm: indeed
<davmor2> bigcalm: such is life
<bigcalm> davmor2: I've got a shed-load of ddr1 if you want ;)
 * MartijnVdS looks waht his laptop eats
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: wrong size I'd speculate
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: DDR3
<MartijnVdS> well yes
<MartijnVdS> SO-DIMMs
<MartijnVdS> Considering upgrading to 8G
<zleap> popey, just tried 12.04 on my desktop,   keyboard overlay works fine :)
<MartijnVdS> keyboard overlay?
<MartijnVdS> Like the ones you used to get with WordPerfect? :)
<zleap> press super and you get numbers on the launcher,  keep it pressed you get a keyboard overlay pop up over the screen
<zleap> http://joesteiger.com/2012/01/18/shortcut-hints-overlay-added-to-unity-ubuntu-12-04/
<brobostigon> are all ipod connectors the same? or do they vary, and i have to get one specific to the ipod model?
<BigRedS> brobostigon: I've not yet found any incompatibility
<BigRedS> and I've got through shedloads of the things
<MartijnVdS> Even the first ever ipods etc.?
<MartijnVdS> the firewire ones?
<popey> zleap: hurrah
<popey> brobostigon: the only different ones recently are the ipod nanos which have no 30-pin dock but connect via the headphone port
<brobostigon> popey: the model i have here is the very first nano model.
<popey> brobostigon: does it have a display?
<brobostigon> popey: yes.
<popey> so yeah, "standard" 30 pin doc connector on the bottom
<brobostigon> so any standard ipod connector, will work.
<brobostigon> ok, thank you popey
<popey> ya
<brobostigon> :)
<directhex> "standard ipod connector"?
<brobostigon> yes, the female/male proprietry connector.
<mungojerry> just saw somebody using bing search. lol
<MartijnVdS> mungojerry: Weird people
<zleap> chat later,
<zleap> btw is it possible to alter the size of icons in the launcher ?
<Darael> zleap: ISTR yes, but I forget how.
<bigcalm> Yes, but I'm not using unity atm to tell you how
<zleap> ok
<zleap> what is ISTR
<Darael> zleap: I Seem To Remember.
<bigcalm> I seem to remember
<zleap> ok thanks
<zleap> a bit like IIRC
<MartijnVdS> In the "appearance" dialog
<zleap> if i recall correctly
<zleap> ok will have a look,  or have a look with 12.04
<zleap> i wonder if 12.04 will pull in user data from an existing install
<Darael> If memory serves, it's not in the GUI config tools for Oneiric, but it is in the ones for Precise.
<zleap> if installed to another partition
<Darael> Possibly it can be got at in Oneiric with CCSM.
<zleap> that would be useful  icons are fine,  but sligtly smaller may be good here
<zleap> anyway got 2 go,  so chat when i get back from work
<directhex> mungojerry, i use it on my phone, since it's the only option
<popey> directhex: you can't change it?
<directhex> nein. i can add a google shortcut to my home screen, but the search button goes to bing
<popey> heheh
<popey> lolphone
<dwatkins> bing uses google's results anyway, though ;)
<davmor2> directhex: would that be a windows phone 7 phone then?
<directhex> davmor2, yes
<Darael> A thought just occurred.  We've had Bayesian filters in email clients for yonks, but there don't seem to be any newsreaders with one, even though the scoring features of more recent ones seem like they'd fit with the concept rather well.  D'you think it's just because (proportionally) so few people bother with Usenet any more?
<directhex> popey, some chinese OEMs hardcode bing into their androids, iirc
<bigcalm> Usewhat? ;)
<popey> nice
<Darael> bigcalm: That's an answer of sorts, I suppose.
<dwatkins> Darael: there's always RSS
<Darael> dwatkins: It's hardly the same.
<dwatkins> Darael: true, but I imagine it's a lot more prevelant nowadays
<dwatkins> I'd like my RSS reader to show me things I actually want to read
<Darael> Indeed it is (although aren't we all supposed to be using ATOM instead?).  It's still not the same, being unidirectional.
<dwatkins> Having said that, the counter argument could be stated that I should choose my RSS feeds more carefully, of course.
<BigRedS> We're looking to hire a sysadmin at work, how frowned-upon are posts like that to the uuk list?
<shauno> I'd be tempted to nudge you towards http://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/linuxjobs  if that avenue interests you
<shauno> (doesn't answer yer question, but worth knowing it's there ;)
<popey> +1
<BigRedS> yeah, I think it's going to be posted there, too
<BigRedS> I suppose anyone on lists in general who is after a job is on that one, too, anyway
<BigRedS> Is there a way to report bugs against content in wiki.ubuntu.com?
<BigRedS> I can't find it as a project in Launchpad
<diplo> Where are you anyhoo BigRedS ?
<mattt> on ubuntu, what creates the ssh host keys?
<popey> BigRedS: it's a wiki
<popey> edit it
<mattt> i know on RHEL etc. there's an ssh-keygen in the sshd init script
<MartijnVdS> mattt: the postinst script of the ssh daemon
<MartijnVdS> mattt: check /var/lib/dpkg/info/openssh-server.postinst
<AlanBell> there may be some regenerating of host keys in the oem config stuff
<BigRedS> popey: that only works if I know what is correct
<popey> BigRedS: what page ?
<BigRedS> if someone follows the instructions on the wiki and finds they don't work how do they flag this up for someone who does know the answer
<mattt> MartijnVdS: ah, makes sense
 * czajkowski tickles christel 
<BigRedS> er, a java one. Someone's mentioned it on your favourite list :)
<BigRedS> hang on
<BigRedS> oh, wait, not the wiki. I mis-read. https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Java
<BigRedS> not sure what that counts as
<BigRedS> argh. There's too much documentation
<popey> community documentation
<popey> whats wrong with it?
<mattt> AlanBell: yeah, i have an older ubuntu VM with no host keys, and when it first boots they get created
<mattt> while on 11.10 no recreation seems to take place
<BigRedS> I don't know; I don't have anything here to test on, it just ocurred to me that there's no apparent process for bug reports against it
<BigRedS> he's saying that he gets no errors and no Java which is probably not what's happening
<AlanBell> BigRedS: that is a wiki too
<BigRedS> yeah, but it's not *the* wiki :)
<popey> it's _a_ wiki
<BigRedS> yeah
<BigRedS> still, the fact it's a wiki is great if someone who knows the answer happens to find that the content is wrong
<popey> well
<BigRedS> which seems a little unlikely
<popey> at the top there is "Wiki Guide"
<popey> I clicked that
<popey> there is "Communication"
<BigRedS> aha, in there is a link to https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-docs/+bugs
<BigRedS> so it's ubuntu-docs that any bug would be reported against
<popey> cool
<gord> http://www.superbotentertainment.com/ is a very cool website
<popey> indeed
<popey> ooh, it's all gamey news today.
 * AlanBell likes a bit of game pie
<Guest32511> ello?
<AlanBell> hello Guest32511
<popey> hi pete
<popey> hi pete
<cbx33> hey popey
<cbx33> long time dude!
<cbx33> hey AlanBell
<cbx33> how is evreyone?
<popey> tickety boo
<cbx33> so I'm sat here wondering if I should upgrade tonight
<popey> except AlanBell who is ill
<popey> yes, do it now before the rush
 * AlanBell is mostly fixed
<cbx33> yeh
<cbx33> thinking that
<cbx33> man it's been a long time indeed
<cbx33> so are people sticking with unity now
 * AlanBell will have one last pre-podcast lemsip then I am totally fixed
<cbx33> or looking at the reworked classic?
<AlanBell> yeah, unity has been mostly unbroken and is now quite good
 * cbx33 has been out of the loop - FOR A LONG TIME
<popey> i only use unity
<popey> even on old/slow/crappy machines
<cbx33> I have been using it too
<cbx33> to be honest it's been pretty good
<popey> my kids both use unity 2d on their Eee 900 (900MHz Celerons)
<cbx33> yeh
<cbx33> so tonight I upgrade then
<davmor2> popey: and even with a script to try and force you to use 2d more
<cbx33> home my boot time improves
<cbx33> s/home/bope
<cbx33> oh fcol!!!
<popey> nope
<popey> i remotely updated mums machine yesterday
<popey> no calls yet
<cbx33> popey: was that an answer to my hope?
<popey> heh
<popey> its nice and quick here
<cbx33> sweet
<popey> but then I have SSDs in everything
<cbx33> mine suffered i think with the last upgrade
<cbx33> I may have to do a fresh install
<cbx33> but I always hate doing that
<popey> i rarely fresh install
<cbx33> yeh
<cbx33> I don't like to
<cbx33> I hope calibre is fixed in 12.04
<popey> how is it broken?
<cbx33> some converting didn't work for me
<cbx33> in the Git book
<cbx33> hey popey did you ever read my novel btw :p
<cbx33> hahaha
<cbx33> j/k
<cbx33> *tumbleweed*
<AlanBell> everyone coming to the release party tomorrow?
<davmor2> AlanBell: nope working
<bigcalm> AlanBell: too far for a school night
<bigcalm> Gah, it's Wednesday today?
<bigcalm> Time is slipping away from me
<Aivaras> Guys may any one uses google's or openDNS DNS servers and can ping to my domain and say that IP that gives? its "256.lt" Thanks!
<davmor2> bigcalm: it's not slipping I'm stealing it muhahahahahahahahahahah
<popey> alan@deep-thought:~$ host 256.lt
<popey> 256.lt has address 82.135.231.154
<popey> 256.lt mail is handled by 10 mail.256.lt.
<bigcalm> Aivaras: http://www.whatsmydns.net/#A/256.lt
<popey> Aivaras: you can do this yourself. nslookup 256.lt 8.8.8.8
<Aivaras> oh. thank you guys :)
<AlanBell> looks like 60 responses to the cabinet office consultation so far (well 60 answers to question1)
<AlanBell> http://consultation.cabinetoffice.gov.uk/openstandards/ please fill it in if you have not done so already
<davmor2> popey: is it nearly out yet?
<czajkowski> dear ear popping madness go away :(
<drussell> czajkowski: could be worse... ear pooping madness would get very messy...
<davmor2> czajkowski: use the lemsip
<czajkowski> drussell: way with words sir!
<czajkowski> davmor2: just went and got some
<czajkowski> had to wait till the pesky rain went away
<davmor2> czajkowski: did you get the dissolve or swallow ones?  if take the first one as tablets to keep you going for now and then the next set have as a drink the vapours will help sooth
<czajkowski> swallow ones dissolve stuff is icky
<czajkowski> and also drussell since when did you arrive mister
<drussell> czajkowski: arrive? I've been here for a very long time ;o)
<drussell> czajkowski: stealthy though ;o)
<dogmatic69> http://www.reddit.com/r/sysadmin/comments/srxsd/if_you_have_rackspace_cloud_servers_run_an_ip/
<dogmatic69> :O
<dogmatic69> rackspace / slicehost vpn == virtual public network
<hamitron> dogmatic69, isn't that common?
<dogmatic69> idk
<hamitron> I personally disable the "local" interface on my vps
<hamitron> then just have loopback and public interface
<MarquessDeBonBon> Any of you going to be at Infosec tomorrow?
<brobostigon> http://www.vanheusden.com/multitail/manual.html interesting program.
<Azelphur> phoronix are chanting steam is coming to linux again
<Azelphur> not sure if real this time
<robjohnc> dunno, the screenshots look reasonable, and a hostname of "valve-system-name-here" could be a precursor to the "Steam Box"
<Azelphur> would be interesting if the steam box was just a linux box
<robjohnc> there was some talk about how if the "Steam Box" had to run windows, it would be too expensive
<Azelphur> yea, perhaps that's what they are doing
<robjohnc> If it runs linux, that's also a way to keep competitors (e.g. Origin) off the box, as there's no linux client for them
<Azelphur> hehe
<popey> tbh once steam on linux is available _anyone_ can make a steam box
<Azelphur> interesting prospect :)
<robjohnc> Indeed. I can get rid of windows completely.
<popey> people could just make a black box
<popey> with an auto-updating lean linux distro that boots directly into steam
<robjohnc> yes. Certified Steam boxes could have a certain hardware configuration, and therefore be fully tested etc.
<bigcalm> popey: good idea, let me know when it's ready ;)
<dwatkins> bigcalm: http://www.develop-online.net/news/40019/Valve-product-designer-leaks-Steam-console-photo ;)
<bigcalm> Looks like a PC
<bigcalm> Not very consoly
<dwatkins> fifteen years in any job, and I'd be building linux machines on my desk at work
<zleap> hello
<gmb> Random aside: Stunt Alan's voice reminds me of Douglas Adams.
 * popey points gmb at #ubuntu-uk-podcast
<bigcalm> Oh, is that happening tonight?
<bigcalm> popey: how come you're not on but Mr Bell is?
<AlanBell> bigcalm: I am the replacement Alan
<bigcalm> AlanBell: Apart from the 1st name, I haven't found you both to be completely interchangeable just yet.
<bigcalm> AlanBell: get a job with Canonical ;)
<bigcalm> Is it out yet?
<popey> :D
<zleap> hi
<zleap> bigcalm, i didn't tjhink it was out till tomorrow
<jacobw> precise has been out in my mind since i started using it at beta1
<popey> zleap: humour
<zleap> sorry
<bigcalm> zleap: I'm very aware of when it's our. Sadly my attempt at humour only works if you know I've been around for a few releases now :)
<zleap> ok
<bigcalm> That and I've had 2 pints of ale
<bigcalm> Oh my, just had a thought
<bigcalm> I hope the RAT goes slowly and is a smooth ride
<bigcalm> Hope people don't get motion sickness :|
 * jacobw prediced the thought would be ale related
<bigcalm> Real Ale Train is not far away now :D
<zleap> ohh,
<jacobw> slashdot is really disappointing
<popey> welcome to 5 years ago
<bigcalm> Haha
<jacobw> it used to my source of technical analysis of cool new stuff, now its just like reading bbc technology news without an ubuntu logo on ubuntu related stories
<jacobw> http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=valve_linux_dampfnudeln&num=1
<zleap> just printed that poster sent to the list,  on unity, excellent document
<jacobw> :D
<jacobw> that poster is going to be stuck on the side of the screen of the less technical users when i upgrade my office to precise
<bigcalm> Only need to have Mum's birthday, Gran's birthday, Hayley's 40th birthday, Northern Ireland trip, Stewart Francis gig, sister's birthday, my birthday, RAT, dad's birthday. Then we get to oggcamp :D
<bigcalm> Oo, Stewart Francis gig is before Hayley's birthday and Northern Ireland
<bigcalm> Fun
<zleap> maybe it can be included on cd's
<zleap> or is it too late for that
<YaManicK1ll> is there no wiki page for precise release parties?
<AlanBell> YaManicK1ll: that is done on the loco directory now
<YaManicK1ll> oooooo ok
<YaManicK1ll> makes more sense
<AlanBell> http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-uk/1624/detail/
<AlanBell> http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/global/1598/detail/ all of them
<YaManicK1ll> cool cool
<popey> bigcalm: you on 12.04?
<popey> or anyone
<bigcalm> popey: laptop is, not currently running
<bigcalm> Sup?
<bigcalm> Oh, servers are :D
<Daviey> popey: are you nuts?  Wouldn't run that yet :)
<popey> press printscreen
<popey> flashes twice when it should flash once
<Daviey> popey: you know i don't have a print screen button on this machine :)
<bigcalm> popey: yes, dual flash
<popey> hahaa Daviey
<popey> get a thinkpad
<popey> :D
<popey> (and don't kill it this time)
<popey> maybe it's the redeye reduction feature
<ali1234> confirmed with the printscreen thing
<popey> ta
<ali1234> second flash is just 1 frame
<ali1234> probably a divide by zero / fencepost error in the fading out algorithm
<bigcalm> Can you run dropbox on a headless server (no gui)?
<bigcalm> And does U1 still require a GUI to work?
<popey> bug 988543
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 988543 in gnome-screenshot (Ubuntu) "printscreen flashes twice instead of once." [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/988543
<popey> yes bigcalm
<popey> no bigcalm
<popey> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOne/Headless
<bigcalm> 3 bags full, bigcalm
<bigcalm> popey: bug 988543 confirmed
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 988543 in gnome-screenshot (Ubuntu) "printscreen flashes twice instead of once." [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/988543
<popey> ta
<bigcalm> Starting to ponder U1 usage
<bigcalm> Have 4.2gb on dropbox though
<bigcalm> And it's on all of my machines and platforms
<popey> i recently cleared out my dropbox
<popey> 0.2% of 11GB used
<bigcalm> And it's how I share documents with work
<bigcalm> Boss uses it, I need to keep using it
<popey> aaaaaaand, yet again I click "Ubuntu Software Centre" when I meant to click "Ubuntu One"
<popey> yeah, i only used it for that
<bigcalm> Humm, is that a bug?
<popey> what?
<bigcalm> Clicking the wrong icon ;)
<popey> two icons next to eachother being predominantly orange in colour?
<bigcalm> I would say so
<bigcalm> 2 pints of ale, maybe I won't do any more work for the evening
<ali1234> what if the icons had some writing under them... then you could tell the difference?
<ali1234> or maybe at the side
<bigcalm> A matter of space?
<ali1234> why leave U1 on the launcher anyway?
<ali1234> doesn't it run automatically?
<popey> progress indicator
<popey> when it works :D
<popey> good point
<ali1234> for that matter why leave software center on there?
<popey> i have a habit of locking random apps to the launcher
<popey> indeed!
<ali1234> use the dash it is faster
<popey> not after 3 glasses of wine it isnt
<popey> my mouse targetting is pretty good, typing less so
<ali1234> i only have nautilus, firefox and shell locked
<ali1234> and gedit
<bigcalm> Does unity work over 3 screens on 2 graphics cards? Plus one of the screen is rotated 90 degrees
<Azelphur> bigcalm: no.
<bigcalm> I shall stick with xfce for the time being then
<Azelphur> bigcalm: maybe on ATI, definitely not on nvidia
<bigcalm> Azelphur: both gfx cards are nvidia
<Azelphur> yea, no then.
<Azelphur> been there tried that
<Azelphur> I also use XFCE
<bigcalm> I want to use Unity :)
<bigcalm> I want to be a part of the crowd, not apart from it
<Azelphur> lol
<bigcalm> I can't help myself. I'm still working
<bigcalm> What is wrong with me?
<bigcalm> I used to work until 10pm ish when I worked in the office. At least working from home means I can have a drink at this time of night.
<bigcalm> Not sure it mixes well with coding though
<jacobw> work is fun
<ali1234> why is myspace tom on g+?
<ali1234> and why does it keep suggesting him to me?
<ali1234> is it the real myspace tom or an imposter?
<ali1234> he has 2 million followers
<robjohnc> his photos made me block him
<ali1234> that's the only thing he posts
<ali1234> but why isn't he posting this stuff on myspace>
<soulnafein> howdy
<soulnafein> is there any event planned in London?
<ali1234> i heard there's some sporting event soon
<soulnafein> lol
<soulnafein> I mean an Ubuntu one
<popey> soulnafein: yes
<popey> tomorrow evening
<soulnafein> where
<popey> http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-uk/1624/detail/
<soulnafein> thanks
<bigcalm> And another ticket bites the dust
<bigcalm> Maybe drinking is good for my coding
<bigcalm> Should experiment during work hours tomorrow
<bigcalm> Damn, I want a curry now
<dogmatic69> bigcalm: what you coding?
<bigcalm> dogmatic69: symfony 1.4, cakephp 1.1, bespoke API for an iOS app
<dogmatic69> :/
<Cabbage> How do I connect to servers?
<bigcalm> Now, time for some SOAP and paypoint.net
<bigcalm> Cabbage: what servers are you referring to?
<dogmatic69> bigcalm: why not bust out the php3 while you are back in the dark ages?
<Cabbage> I want to onnet to FinalOwnage
<dogmatic69> Cabbage: open chrome, type ip :)
<bigcalm> dogmatic69: the site I'm writing the API for was started in 2001. The code is hairy
<Cabbage> ip?
<Cabbage> How you find ip?
<dogmatic69> bigcalm: my condolences
<bigcalm> dogmatic69: it pays the bills :)
<dogmatic69> Cabbage: I was being sarcastic, your question was not very specific
<bigcalm> I like wiring bespoke code. Some what liberating
<dogmatic69> bigcalm: https://www.ohloh.net/languages/2
<dogmatic69> so do I :)
<Cabbage> Thanks for the help.
<bigcalm> dogmatic69: there are worse things one can use than PHP to make a living
<bigcalm> Cabbage: if you can be more specific, we might be able to help you
<bigcalm> :)
<Cabbage> Imagine I play RuneScape.
<bigcalm> I have no idea what that is
<Cabbage> Okay, lemme think
<jacobw> its a browser based mmorpg
<Cabbage> [ Final Ownage Elite IRC ]
<Cabbage> #FinalOwnage
<Cabbage> I try to join that irc
<Cabbage> idk how
<jacobw> what irc network is it on?
<jacobw> what client are you using?
<bigcalm> If it's on freenode (this network), just type /join #finalownage
<dogmatic69> https://www.google.co.uk/search?sourceid=chrome&client=ubuntu&channel=cs&ie=UTF-8&q=FinalOwnage+irc
<jacobw> to join an irc channel, you need to know its name and what network its on
<Cabbage> Okay ty
<bigcalm> Otherwise you will have to connect to the correct network 1st and then use that command
<Cabbage> Gonna try find out which network
<bigcalm> Cabbage: where did you see #FinalOwnage?
<Cabbage> irc.swiftirc.net
<Cabbage> That is server
<Cabbage> Server:
<Cabbage> irc.swiftirc.net (6667)
<bigcalm> type: /server irc.swiftirc.net
<bigcalm> And then: /join #finalownage
<Cabbage> ty
<bigcalm> Cabbage: what irc client are you using?
<jacobw> http://www.swiftirc.net/index.php?page=chat&client=qwebirc
<bigcalm> Indeed, you could also use their webchat
<Cabbage> xchat i think
<bigcalm> I guess they typed the command :)
<jacobw> out of band ftw
<jacobw> ;)
<soulnafein> at what time is 12.04 available?
<popey> soulnafein: we dont specify a time
<popey> gord: saw this and thought of you http://www.wtfjapanseriously.com/2012/04/candy-hamburgers.html
 * bigcalm will never again accept sweets from gord
<ali1234> so... steam for linux anyone?
<Azelphur> do want
<ali1234> in the phoronix article that line about how gabe sounds like "a directory of Linux Foundation" is very telling
<ali1234> jim zemlin has been pushing this idea of linux as a platform for "app stores" for years
<ali1234> because if your appstore runs on a linux based platform you create, you don't have to give 30% to anyone
<ali1234> thus his efforts to push it for OEMs
<ali1234> jim zemlin is of course... director of the linux foundation
<AlanBell> canonical want 5% or something like that I think
<ali1234> it wont matter
<ali1234> 5% is still more than 0%
<AlanBell> yeah, I get that, I was just throwing it out there as another data point
<ali1234> also 5% is absurdly low
<ali1234> literally absolutely everyone charges 30%
<AlanBell> literally apple and google charge 30%
<ali1234> and microsoft
<AlanBell> I was wrong
<AlanBell> they charge 20%
<ali1234> also nokia/ovi
<AlanBell> http://developer.ubuntu.com/publish/
<bigcalm> Wouldn't it be grand if 12.04 was released while everybody was asleep?
<AlanBell> "everyone"
<bigcalm> Absolutely everyone
<bigcalm> Think flashforward
<ali1234> what's that movie where everyone in the world falls asleep for 1 hour and then they have to figure out why?
<ali1234> seems like amazon is 30% too btw
<bigcalm> ali1234: sounds like an episode of TNG
<ali1234> no it;s what you said
<ali1234> except it wasn;t an hour
<bigcalm> 2 mins or something
<popey> i watched the first 5 mins of that
<popey> kinda wish I'd watched the rest
<ali1234> it was cancelled
<ali1234> so you probably saved yourself a lot of time
<bigcalm> We watched 3 eps and got bored
<bigcalm> I have the book to read at some point
<bigcalm> Right, time for sleep
<bigcalm> Night peeps
<gord> popey, yeah thats great :) something like that inspired me to start this service. got even more candy today, so tasty http://lightbox.com/photo/mXCyOJe and http://lightbox.com/photo/OR1muYZ
<popey> gord: do you have any idea what's in htem before you open them?
<gord> kinda, the guy sends out emails sometimes, often when the candy needs a description, but me and a friend who also gets the service ignore them and open them at the same time so its a surprise :)
<popey> âº
<Oli> ali1234: FlashForward?
<Oli> My bad - thought you were looking for the name.
<zleap> if I share a cd drive on windows,  how do I access this from Ubuntu
<zleap> i have shared my printer on windows
<zleap> i found it
<zleap> it may hammer my network somewhat
<hamitron> I'd assume you mount it like any other smbfs share
<zleap> ok fuse (specy emulator do i need gTk or sdl version
#ubuntu-uk 2012-04-26
<tammuz> hey there!!
<Azelphur> http://twitter.com/#!/jmacdonald/status/195184740209401856/photo/1 \o/
<ali1234> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-17842926
<ali1234> lolz
<ali1234> 15p tx fee wat?
<ali1234> "He noted that all personal details, pin codes, passwords and other  financial data were held on remote central servers rather than on the  mobile device."
<ali1234> yes that sounds like a good idea
<ali1234> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ayatana-design/+bug/988665
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 988665 in Ayatana Design "can't see which files i have open with multimonitor due to titlebar/top panel stuff" [Undecided,New]
<ali1234> anyone want to take a crack at explaining that better than i have?
<ali1234> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-17836380
<ali1234> "some attendees claimed the scenes looked like low-budget TV."
<ali1234> that's because he's using 48 FPS!
<ali1234> which is close to TV framerate
<ali1234> you see that effect even if you watch movies on a new upscaling TV
<ali1234> i was saying that the other day... it makes star wars look like doctor who from the 70s
<ali1234> once you get over it thought, it is much more immersive to watch
<popey> morning
<popey> ali1234: will blueray support full HD at 48fps?
<MartijnVdS> yes
<popey> huh
<MartijnVdS> As long as they can keep it <128GB
<popey> i thought this might be a way to try to get people to go to the cinema
<popey> rather than pirate or wait for home release
<MartijnVdS> Hm
<MartijnVdS> According to the current spec, bluray has a max frame rate of 24
<MartijnVdS> or 29.97 interlaced
<MartijnVdS> Or almost 60fps in 720p
<MartijnVdS> But the standard is flexible, they could add it
<TheOpenSourcerer> Morning all, how do I unbreak my Unity Desktop? Stupid me was trying to change some of the default features using CCSM and somehow managed to kill it. I boots and loads the wallpaper but no launcher or top bar :-( I can log in with Unity 2D though.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Is the a .dir in my home I can just delete?
<sebsebseb> hi
<TheOpenSourcerer> Morning all, how do I unbreak my Unity Desktop (12.04)? Stupid me was trying to change some of the default features using CCSM and somehow managed to kill it. I boots and loads the wallpaper but no launcher or top bar :-( I can log in with Unity 2D though. (Tried removing .compiz-1 and .cache/compiz-config-1) but still the same.
<MooDoo> morning all
<AlanBell> TheOpenSourcerer: unity --reset &
<DJones> TheOpenSourcerer: http://askubuntu.com/questions/70572/reset-unity-and-gnome-to-default-values
<MooDoo> morning
<MooDoo> oh i already said that
<DJones> Morning
<popey> choo choo
<TheOpenSourcerer> Thanks --reset seemes to have done the trick.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Now - how do I stop windows being made full height, 1/2 width when I drag them to the side? I want to drag them to the next desktop instead.
<AlanBell> TheOpenSourcerer: in ccsm in the grid plugin on the edges tab turn off left edge and right edge
<diplo> Morningall
<BigRedS> G'morning!
<TheOpenSourcerer> Dragging around the cube fails badly.
<AlanBell> it isn't great is it
<TheOpenSourcerer> I can drag it, then it disappears back to the orginal desktop :-(
<AlanBell> keep dragging
<AlanBell> it is just about 1000 pixels offset from the cursor
<TheOpenSourcerer> ha ha ha
<TheOpenSourcerer> Hmm, bit sucky that.
<AlanBell> you are not supposed to be adapting it to the way you want it, you are supposed to stick to the defaults :)
<AlanBell> and it was designed by someone who doesn't like the cube
<TheOpenSourcerer> Another thing I noticed that is quite annoying. A maximised window loses the right click options so I can't say "Move to workspace x" unless it is not maximised :-(
<AlanBell> it has only been tested with the wall plugin really, they nearly dropped CCSM just so that people would stop reporting bugs about compiz plugins
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: ctrl+alt+shift+arrow
 * TheOpenSourcerer tries to contort his fingers
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: you're allowed to use 2 hands ;)
<TheOpenSourcerer> No. I keep the other one for something else ;-)
<Linuxsapien> morning fellow linux lovers :D anyone from Scotland at-all?
<BigRedS> MartijnVdS: does that move windows between monitors?
<BigRedS> there really should be a "Cynics guide to unity"
<BigRedS> with an apostrope, obviously
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: it moves windows between workspaces
<BigRedS> Ah! Oh yeah
<TheOpenSourcerer> I am just trying to set it up so it works "for me"(tm)
<BigRedS> I use that all the time...
<MartijnVdS> (it does what ctrl+alt+arrow does, but the currently active window moves along with it)
<BigRedS> yeah, I've just noticed that's some firmly-ingrained  muscle memory
<DJones> Morning Linuxsapien Pretty sure thee is a few from scotland around
<Linuxsapien> DJones no doubts :D thanks
<daubers> Morning
<Linuxsapien> morning daubers
<BigRedS> g'morning!
<Linuxsapien> ya big dauber!
<TheOpenSourcerer> Whose going to the party tonight then?
 * BigRedS raises hand
<BigRedS> also, I've got a Gnome3 t-shirt on :)
<Linuxsapien> party??? Where's this?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Linuxsapien: http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-uk/1624/detail/
<Linuxsapien> shame its down there :(
<TheOpenSourcerer> There's nothing to stop you having one where you are.
<Linuxsapien> i live in a little village....
<Linuxsapien> a solo party? :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Why not?
<popey> morning all
<BigRedS> G'morning!
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<bigcalm> Is it out yet?
<sagaci> Waitangi looks like a better country for Canonical
<sagaci> nearly a day ahead of alaska
<JamesTait> Happy release day, folks!
<bigcalm> What is the SMTP of choice these days? exim?
<MartijnVdS> postfix?
<BigRedS> postfix
<bigcalm> Why postfix over exim?
<bigcalm> exim is already installed by default
<TheOpenSourcerer> Hmm, London could get a bit messy later: (Via Twitter):
<TheOpenSourcerer> BREAKING: Bakerloo Line tunnel has collapsed at Embankment. From staff on the ground. No word on casualties yet.
<czajkowski> TheOpenSourcerer: eh where is that ?
<TheOpenSourcerer> What? Embankment?
<bigcalm> Oh my
<czajkowski> TheOpenSourcerer: the news breaking
<TheOpenSourcerer> czajkowski: https://twitter.com/#!/marcashdown/status/195431745502457856
<dwatkins> oh eek
 * dwatkins texts a friend in London to check she's okay
<AlanBell> oh no
<popey> yeah, they told us on the train on the way in that there was a problem
<popey> didnt say it was that
<DJones> http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/livetravelnews/realtime/tube/default.html
<diplo> And the maintenance people are on strike :/
<DJones> "Suspended between Piccadilly Circus and Elephant and Castle due to an obstruction in tunnel at Embankment. Severe delays on the rest of the line."
<czajkowski> wow
<gordonjcp> !!
<MartijnVdS> EEK
<DJones> That'll delay the 12.04 release
<AlanBell> apparently it is a minor incident (nobody hurt)
<MartijnVdS> DJones: All that to delay a release
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: yeah "Ambulance was not necessary" tweets are showing up
<bigcalm> Re smtp: re-configured exim4-config to be connected directly to the internet and everything just works :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> I blame Apple
<popey> TheOpenSourcerer: my mate is coming tomorrow
<popey> will be in farnham for 6pm
<TheOpenSourcerer> Excellent.
<TheOpenSourcerer> http://www.itv.com/news/london/
<dwatkins> AlanBell / MartijnVdS - glad to hear it
<dwatkins> so the incident was blown out of all proportion?
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: It takes one person to tweet a misunderstood announcement ...
<dwatkins> MartijnVdS: indeed
<dwatkins> Just goes to show how news spreads like wildfire
<dwatkins> this reminds me, I should watch that TV show about the Tube
<MartijnVdS> that's a great series
<MartijnVdS> the BBC one, you mean
<Linuxsapien> why does it seem we require to do a fresh install to upgrade to latest distro?
<AlanBell> we don't
<AlanBell> unless you are running windows that is
<Linuxsapien> mint only
<AlanBell> err, well yeah, I guess to upgrade mint to Ubuntu 12.04 would probably be best with a fresh install
<TheOpenSourcerer> I sometimes do a fresh install, so I clear my desktop and other places of unwanted files :-) Then I pull back the ones that find I need afterwards.
<Linuxsapien> so I do require to do a fresh install, as the apt way screwed up as expected
<dwatkins> What exactly are you running Linuxsapien?
<popey> mint != ubuntu
<mungojerry> toffee apple != apple
<AlanBell> Linuxsapien: well yes, you will need to do a fresh install because you are not doing an upgrade you are changing operating systems
<siya> Right, really fed up w volume control issues now
<Linuxsapien> im no changing nothing, im mint, and always will be mint
<siya> since my last dist-upgrade (I think) my volume control in gnome (keyboard buttons) yield either mute or 100% volume
<siya> the screen overlay pops up and shows what is set but the actual sound is either on fully or off
<AlanBell> !mint
<lubotu3> Linux Mint is not a supported derivative of Ubuntu. Please seek support in #linuxmint-help on irc.spotchat.org
<AlanBell> Linuxsapien: well if mint have got broken upgrades then that is a shame for mint
<Linuxsapien> ah well, Ill just leave it
<Linuxsapien> its not broken (yet)
<dwatkins> What's the actual problem,out of curiosity, Linuxsapien?
 * Linuxsapien scrolls up
<Linuxsapien> there is no problem, I just wanted to see what the latest was like
<AlanBell> the latest what? Ubuntu?
<Linuxsapien> ACHT!!!!
<dwatkins> The latest eight?
 * AlanBell is confused
<Laney> haha
<dwatkins> I sense a lack of logical thought.
<Laney> release day is amusing
<popey> it is
<AlanBell> you can run a liveCD or USB of ubuntu without breaking other operating systems you might have installed
<bigcalm> That was fun
<hoover_> morning all
<bigcalm> Hi hoovie
<hoover> hey biggie
<hoover> I'm tearing my hair out trying to get a locally download jre / firefox 12 combo to work.... HELP ;)
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
 * dwatkins wonders if it was an attempt at trolling
<popey> i expect it was misunderstanding
<hoover> doesn't the old "create a plugins dir and symlink the plugin" method work anymore?
<hoover> No matter where I put the symlink, no "java" under about:plugins
<bigcalm> Is java in the runtime path?
<TheOpenSourcerer> See youz all later at the PARTY! :-D
<bigcalm> I've not had this problem before. Java just works
<gord> hum, another web service got my password stolen, i really need a better solution for passwords
<kvarley> Any ideas of what time the new version of ubuntu will hit the servers?
<BigRedS> just download the RC
<BigRedS> by now it's hardly different to the release
<kvarley> BigRedS: Ok =]
<BigRedS> and this way you get to not download it at the same time as half a gazillion other people :)
<kvarley> BigRedS: =] I hope my parents can understand unity. They're on the last gnome2 release of ubuntu at the moment
<BigRedS> One way to find out :)
<kvarley> =]
<bigcalm> kvarley: if they struggle, you could install xubuntu-desktop. XFCE is fairly gnome2 like
<kvarley> bigcalm: Yup, that was my plan. Thanks for the suggestion. I'm using xubuntu on my system at the moment but am hoping unity will be tweaked enough for me to run now.
<dwatkins> I recently discovered lubuntu. It doesn't run on the 128 MB RAM suggested, but on a machine with 1 GB of RAM it runs very well.
<dwatkins> 'light ubuntu'
<bigcalm> kvarley: I really want to use Unity (and do so on my laptop), but it doesn't play nicely with 2 graphics cards running 3 monitors, one of which rotated 90 degrees
<kvarley> bigcalm: Hhmm. For me it isn't responsive enough, I'd click the dash icon and have to wait for it to load. I want my desktop to be fast and responsive - unity was far from it in previous releases. I'm hoping they've fixed it in this release.
<popey> its a lot faster
<Darael> I do so wish e didn't have that irritating mouse-focus.  Unity isn't that much better in that respect, although I do use it, and making the dash into a built-in keystroke launcher is good even if it seems to contradict the mouse-and-touch-orientation thing.
<kvarley> popey: =]
<bigcalm> kvarley: it's very usable now. You will be pleasantly surprised how much Unity has matured
<kvarley> bigcalm: Ok =] I'll try it again.
<popey> bigcalm: gimmie a photo (non-blurred) of your setup
<popey> am gonna show it to one of the designers
<bigcalm> popey: sure
<AlanBell> http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-uk/1624/detail/ lots of people coming to the party \o/
<hoover> bigcalm: yep, it's in the path
<hoover> Anyone else running Juniper network connect on a linux system?
<hoover> All other system plugins get picked up by the standalone firefox... just not java / jre
<hoover> what a fscking mess
<bigcalm> popey: http://pushingthewrongbuttons.tumblr.com/post/21841595700/a-wee-snap-for-popey
<bigcalm> popey: camera app is still broken on my phone, so have to use other services that use the camera to take photos :(
<bigcalm> hoover: was a shot in the dark. Really don't know how to help you :(
<popey> nice
<bigcalm> popey: notice that I also have 6 workspaces on each monitor
<bigcalm> (sometimes not enough)
<bigcalm> Unity limiting to 4 is painful
<popey> it isnt limited to 4
<popey> you can have as many as you like in whatever layout
<bigcalm> By default or by installing another program?
<popey> what does it matter?
<popey> you can do it
<bigcalm> I'm not nit picking, just want to know how :)
<popey> ccsm can do it
 * bigcalm takes a look
<bigcalm> Ta
<davmor2> morning all happy release/slow T'interweb day
<bigcalm> !ccsm
<lubotu3> To enable advanced customization of desktop effects in Ubuntu: install 'compizconfig-settings-manager' (or 'simple-ccsm' for pre-Oneiric). If you install the latter, a new option will appear in your appearance properties - See also !compiz - Help in #compiz
<bigcalm> Oh, I see
<bigcalm> Hi davmor2
<smittix> Hi all.
<bigcalm> Already shutdown the laptop, will look again later
<davmor2> bigcalm: what you doing with ccsm
<Laney> One time I'll leave a machine un-upgraded so that I can join in the release fun
<bigcalm> davmor2: nothing yet :)
<bigcalm> davmor2: more than 4 work spaces
<sircrashalot> I'll probably upgrade soon.  Currently only the netbook is on 12.04
<bigcalm> !isitoutyet
<lubotu3> Nope! Ubuntu 12.04 is scheduled for release sometime on April 26th. You can party in #ubuntu-release-party while you're waiting!
<bigcalm> Haha
<MooDoo> morning davmor2
<davmor2> morning MooDoo
<Laney> hrm, the Canonical shop is a bit borked
<Laney> all of the categories I tried are 404
<popey> wfm
<Laney> what happens if you click on the t-shirts here https://shop.canonical.com/advanced_search_result.php?keywords=pangolin&op=Search ?
<pangolin> it makes me giggle
<popey> i see a tshirt
<popey> purple ones
<Laney> good old wfm
<gord> if you click on the tshirt shots the website blurs, thats cool
<Laney> hoho, it works if I'm logged in
<bigcalm> wfm
<bigcalm> I have no login
<Laney> wfm isn't very helpful
<Laney> :(
<bigcalm> Agreed
<bigcalm> Shift refresh?
<Laney> tried
<bigcalm> Different web browser?
<Laney> yep, works in chromium
<Laney> le spooky
<Laney> no, I spoke to soon, it does not
<bigcalm> What actual URL is giving the 404?
<davmor2> Laney: wfm in firefox not logged in or logged in
<Laney> from https://shop.canonical.com/advanced_search_result.php?keywords=pangolin&op=Search I click on a link to http://shop.canonical.com/product_info.php?products_id=987 and get taken to http://shop.canonical.com/HTTP_SERVER/login.php
<Laney> aha, if I am logged in then the second link is to https://... and this works
<bigcalm> Poptarts consumed. Might be able to get some work done now
<davmor2> So guys ruling out the awesome that is Software Center,  whats everyones favourite change/part/new bit of precise?
<sircrashalot> The login background
<sagaci> stability
<bigcalm> The name
<sagaci> it's pretty much oneiric but new-ified
<BigRedS> I swear at Unity a good deal less than I used to. That's nice
<AlanBell> it is the least broken unity so far
<AlanBell> alt-tab working is nice
<Laney> GHC 7.4 ^o)
 * bittin^work is listning to Ubuntu UK Podcast at work :)
<BigRedS> I still dont understand the need to be able to alt-tab to "Minimise all the windows"
<BigRedS> but other than that, yeah, it has a habit now of actually bringing up the window I was hoping for, which is nice
<mungojerry> which is the prtscrn command to copy just the window? alt-prtscrn is doing the whole screen
 * AlanBell windows if macos has alt-tab to show desktop
<AlanBell> mungojerry: alt-prtscr should do it
<silner> I have a really odd Get-iPlayer problem that only affects my Ubuntu install (not Fedora or XP)
<mungojerry> hmm..bug?
<AlanBell> mungojerry: gnome-screenshot -i if it doesn't
<silner> When I try to grab One The Wire I get this:
<silner> RTMPDump v2.3(c) 2010 Andrej Stepanchuk, Howard Chu, The Flvstreamer Team; license: GPL
<silner> ERROR: RTMP_HashSWF: couldn't contact swfurl http://www.bbc.co.uk/emp/10player.swf?revision=18269_21576 (HTTP error 301)
<mungojerry> same version of rtmpdump?
<silner> But it grabs and encodes it in Fedora 16 and the Windows port or Get_iPlayer
<silner> Well it doesn't show in Windows and Fedora, but I'm guessing they're newer; how do I update that?
<silner> I mean there's no error message in them
<silner> The clue seems to be that's one of the very few BBC programmes still encoded in MP3 on their server
<silner> What seems to happen is - on Ubuntu it grabs the flv and transcodes it after which takes a lot longer (obviously)
<directhex> has 1204 shipped? cdimage.ubuntu.com is hella slow
<silner> My problem is, I don't understand this bug well enough to report it
<Venko> Has the final version of the new Ubuntu been released?
<DJones> Not yet, still being finalised
<silner> I know that sounds daft, but I couldn't make a useful bug report
<Venko> DJones: Thanks :)
<AlanBell> podcast is out \o/
<AlanBell> http://podcast.ubuntu-uk.org/
<bittin^work> AlanBell: listning :)
<silner> So I know this channel is logged and I'm mentioning it here to corroborate any other reports, where the reporter knows what he's talking about :)
<davmor2> mungojerry: is the app fullscreen?
 * aquarius is abused in uupc. Heh.
<mungojerry> davmor2, now
<mungojerry> s/now/no
<popey> âº
<bigcalm> I'd better listen then
<silner> I wonder there's a Get iPlayer channel
<bigcalm> I'm very happy with the web interface for get_iplayer
<davmor2> mungojerry: then alt-prtscr should work, ensure you press alt first and hold it other wise it might be trying to trigger hud then when you hit prtscr it would be like you just press prtscr rather than alt-prtscr
 * bigcalm pauses FSOL for some UUPC
<silner> I never knew there was one bigcalm - I'll have a look
<mungojerry> davmor2, i have 2 screens.
<popey> get you
<bigcalm> silner: I have this set up in my .bashrc
<bigcalm> alias get_iplayer_web_interface="cd ~/Music/iPlayer;perl get_iplayer.cgi --port=1935 --getiplayer=/usr/bin/get_iplayer --listen=127.0.0.1"
<mungojerry> what happens is : prtscrn - both monitors / alt-prtscrn gives full desktop screenshot of 1 monitor
<bigcalm> Of course you'll need to find a copy of get_iplayer.cgi
<silner> Thanks bigcalm I never noticed that feature before. I'm not very observant really :)
<bigcalm> silner: I got bored of the cli commands so looked for a web interface
<mungojerry> can someone with 2 screens replicate the prtscrn problem? the app i was trying to screenshot was gedit
<bigcalm> Committed revision 666.
<bigcalm> I am so very easily amused
<Darael> bigcalm: I hope you at least did something amusing with the commit message.
<bigcalm> Darael: I didn't realise that I was at revision 665
<Darael> bigcalm: Shame.  Ah, well.
<davmor2> Commit message just reads "The number of the beast, I fixed some stuff"
<Darael> "Program now turns the user evil.  Additionally, fixed bugs [blah]."
<davmor2> Commit message reads  "Now I own you soul, muhahahahahahahaha, yours sincerely the Devil"
<davmor2> s/you/your
<bigcalm> !isitoutyet
<lubotu3> Nope! Ubuntu 12.04 is scheduled for release sometime on April 26th. You can party in #ubuntu-release-party while you're waiting!
<davmor2> oh dear bigcalm found a new toy
<bigcalm> :D
<smittix> heh
<bigcalm> davmor2: only if somebody remembers to update it
<smittix> I love seeing how many people as if its out yet.
<smittix> s/as/ask
<bigcalm> TBH, I don't really care that much :D
<bigcalm> My dev servers run 12.04 already. My workstation runs 11.10 and will do until I have time to upgrade to 12.04
<bigcalm> My bytemark server will need to be upgraded to 12.04 at some point
<diplo> We have some Mac users in here don't we ?
<diplo> Friend has some photos he wants to move from PC to mac, going to lend him my usb-hdd, reckoned FS for it to work on the mac ?
<diplo> Not sure macs support ntfs, best to just go fat32 ?
<shauno> ntfs is fine for readonly, fat32 is fine all-round
<diplo> I think I'm just going with safety, don't want to sit there to long with issues :)
<diplo> fat32 it is
<davmor2> diplo: if it's not that many photos say under 5gb Ubuntu One it installs on both end of issue :D
<diplo> 13gb unfortunately, But on that note.. they have a client for MAC now then ?
<davmor2> diplo: I'm sure I saw an announcement ages ago
<czajkowski> or web upload?
<davmor2> diplo: Ah iphone not mac I must of seen it as just Apple Iphone  and just noted the Apple bit
<diplo> heh
<diplo> I think he just wants a quick swapsy over, don't own/use a mac so didn't know
<diplo> :)
<davmor2> diplo: well it's all the same thing right :D
<diplo> Could have googled but with the wealth of knowledge here
<diplo> Seems so nowadays
<diplo> Right, better go out shopping and find my youngest a gift or three
<diplo> :/
 * diplo hates shopping, especially for presents
<rh1zome> ('is', 'it', 'out', 'yet', '?')
<AlanBell> no
<Darael> rh1zome: Invalid function "'is',"
<MartijnVdS> if ('it' eq 'out') {
<MartijnVdS> perl -E "while ('it' ne 'out') { say 'Is it out yet?'; }"
<bittin^work> yay just fixed a computer :)
<zleap> is Grant in here ?
<smittix> Yay #ubuntu is muted.
<smittix> about time.
<Darael> MartijnVdS: (loop while (not (equalp it out)) do (format t "Is it out yet?))
<mungojerry> hmm. unmounting a drive in nautilus seems to exit nautilus - feature or bug?
<rh1zome> It's out: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-announce/2012-April/000159.html
<Laney> is it out yet | it == out = is "it" "out" "yet?"
<Laney> !=
<daubers> define it, what's it coming out of and put some constraints on yet
<zleap> thymox
<DJones> smittix: I notice it got muted as soon as you spoke though :)
<smittix> haha
<davmor2> bigcalm: try your new toy again
<AlanBell> it would appear to be out now, the announcement has been made (and someone broke ubuntu.com)
<mrevell> Ah, it's out.
<DJones> Yay, the email arrives
<smittix> DJones: I have been away ages and you go and hurt my feelings as soon as i come back.
<smittix> Yeah but the downloads are errm down :/
<Laney> needs moar cloud
<DJones> servers probably overloaded because the website announced the release early, so too many people tried connecting
<Laney> actually it seems to be working
<Darael> The poor bot still thinks it isn't.
<AlanBell> DJones: no, not a load problem on that bit, someone changed something
<smittix> Yeah looks like drupal is set to offline mode.
<smittix> heh
<smittix> yay now its working
<mungojerry> 32 bit is still the "recommended" flavour :-\
<DJones> It must be official now, its on twitter :)
<zleap> yay
<zleap> Just refreshed the ubuntu home page
<czajkowski> AlanBell: slap the factoid into waking up it's out :)
<Laney> ubuntu.com works but canonical.com seems borked :P
<MartijnVdS> apparently it's out.
<czajkowski> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-announce/2012-April/000159.html
 * Laney dist-upgrades: 0 updates available
<MartijnVdS> same here
<AlanBell> !precise
<lubotu3> Ubuntu 12.04 LTS (Precise Pangolin) is the 16th release of Ubuntu and is in Beta testing from 2nd March, Discussion and support until final release in #ubuntu+1
<Laney> !quantal
<lubotu3> Ubuntu 12.10 (Quantal Quetzal) will be the 17th release of Ubuntu, Discussion and support until final release in #ubuntu+1
<AlanBell> !11.10
<lubotu3> Ubuntu 11.10 (Oneiric Ocelot) is the current release of Ubuntu | Download http://releases.ubuntu.com/11.10/ - Release Info: http://www.ubuntu.com/getubuntu/releasenotes/1110
<czajkowski> !isitoutyet
<lubotu3> Nope! Ubuntu 12.04 is scheduled for release sometime on April 26th. You can party in #ubuntu-release-party while you're waiting!
<zleap> the mind boggles,  just got a largish box,  filled with polystyrene packaging,  all for a small packet of sd card stickers
<Darael> It's on twitter, but it's on twitter as being at http://ubunut.com - oops.
<zleap> F A I L
<DJones> Why oops? Have you tried the website?
<DJones> It redirects to ubuntu.com anyway
<Darael> Oh, I'm aware it works, but /surely/ it's a typo.
<DJones> Maybe just a way of spreading the load on servers
<mungojerry> bug? if you drag an item on the launcher to trash, it removes the item even before you release the mouse button
<BigRedS> ....and there goes any bandwidth at all to my apt mirror :(
<hank3three3> hi, I just got the e-mail through that 12.04 has now been released, I know it is early, and probably every persoin and his brother will be attempting to download the upgrade, but I just wondered, how do I know if I am still running the beta version, and how do I upgrade via the terminal
<zleap> hank3three3, i just sent an e-mail to the dclug list saying 12.04 is out
<hank3three3> this one was from a woman
<zleap> ah
<DJones> hank3three3: Probably Kate Stewart
<zleap> well we all do our bit to tell people eh :)
<hank3three3> that is the person, didnt know if I could post her name
<Laney> you just use the update manager, or apt-get from the terminal like normal
<hank3three3> ok, I just did sudo apt-get update&&sudo apt-get dist-upgrade would that be enough, and how can I find out if I am not still using beta
<zleap> i am waiting for someone to post to ubuntu-uk mailing list
<hank3three3> ubuntu-announce@lists.ubuntu.com was the list I got it sent to
<brobostigon> lsb_release -a    would also tell you.
<zleap> ah
<selinuxium> Afternoon all   o/
<hank3three3> brilliant, it says I am running Ubuntu 12.04 LTS
<hank3three3> that was easy
<bittin^work> soon fixed 2 computers that had the sign broken on them but 1 seems to be broken for real
<rh1zome> hank3three3: I've been seeing that since last night. Either beta users got the final updates early or lsb_release doesn't indicate beta status?
<BigRedS> Anyone know what OpenOffice's exit code of 77 means?
<hank3three3> oh......is there any other way to upgrade using the terminal
<BigRedS> what's wrong with apt-get?
<BigRedS> if that's having problems so probably will anything else
<hank3three3> well, I did that, then rhizome said that he had been showing that he was on 12.04 since yesterday, and didnt know if lsb_release -a showed users were on beta
<hank3three3> which is why I asked if there was any other way
<BigRedS> when did you last succesfully upgrade?
<BigRedS> to upgrade or find out which release you're on
<BigRedS> if your last upgrade was more than half an hour ago you're on the beta. If it wasn't, you're on the release
<hank3three3> I installed beta, and have been updating using sudo apt-get update&&sudo apt-get dist-upgrade every day, and just had some updates before coming on here which was when I had the e-mail
<Laney> ?!
<Laney> It's more continuous than that. The beta is just a snapshot of the state at the day it was released.
<BigRedS> if you've upgraded in the past 12 hours your basically on the release. It's not like there's a sudden slew of changes dumped in in the last ten minutes
<Laney> so "on the beta" doesn't really mean much after a few days of updating
<BigRedS> no, and the closer you get to release temporally, the closer you do in state, too.
<hank3three3> just did sudo apt and first 20 or so things came up as pangolin release
 * awilkins realises that clicking "Check" on the update mangler was a dumb idea today
<awilkins> Yay, up to date
<awilkins> Whoa, ubuntu.com is slashdotted
<aquarius> !isitoutyet
<lubotu3> Nope! Ubuntu 12.04 is scheduled for release sometime on April 26th. You can party in #ubuntu-release-party while you're waiting!
<aquarius> ha! wrong, bot!
<Darael> aquarius: I was going to say "Don't listen to the bot" but it's clear thou'rt already aware.
<aquarius> Darael, indeed. Wrong bot is wrong :)
<dwatkins> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-announce/2012-April/000159.html says it's out but the site gives me errors also
<BigRedS> what's the keybinding for changing servers in irssi? I'm connected to a few and I want to run a commad on one other than the last one I connected to
<Darael> BigRedS: ctl+X
<Darael> BigRedS: Alternatively, most commands take an option of -<chatnet> IIRC (eg /msg -ubuntu nick message (assuming something based on the default config))
<BigRedS> Darael: Ta!
<Darael> Does the version of aptitude in Precise include the fix for bug 831768, and if not, does tasksel still use aptitude?
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 831768 in aptitude (Ubuntu Precise) "aptitude cannot handle conflicts with multiarch enabled" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/831768
<mungojerry> if i search for filders and files in unity , how i can i determine the location of the results without actually opening/running the file?
<Darael> Because that bit me at least once on 64-bit Oneiric installing from the minimal CD.
<hamitron> erm, is ubuntu website down?
<mungojerry> sort of
<Darael> hamitron: Probably just being hammered.  It's been hardly any time since release, after all.
<hamitron> so it is out now? :D
 * mungojerry loads his gun
 * hamitron hides
 * bigcalm returns
<bigcalm> !isitoutyet
<lubotu3> Nope! Ubuntu 12.04 is scheduled for release sometime on April 26th. You can party in #ubuntu-release-party while you're waiting!
<bigcalm> Haha
<Darael> hamitron: The mailing list says yes, the bot lies and says no.
<diplo> Twitter says yes as well @ubuntu etc
<bigcalm> ubuntu.com is down I see
<hamitron> aye
<diplo> And the speed of updates/website I'd say yes :)
<davmor2> bigcalm: america just came online of course it's down
<hamitron> this is the first time I've actually had an empty hdd ready to install it
<hamitron> on release day
<hamitron> :)
<Darael> If I were at home (rather than on a somewhat flaky rural-Indian CDMA connection) I'd be thinking "Oh, right, that's why I was going to try setting up debtorrent"... /again/.
<Darael> Not that it would actually do me any good considering how few people /use/ debtorrent.
 * hoover has managed to install the juniper client on Ubuntu in the meantime
<DJones> This brings back memorys of working a computer shop selling these http://www.reghardware.com/2012/04/26/retro_week_product_roundup_12_1980s_classic_micros/
<hamitron> well, got it downloading at least
<hamitron> :)
<directhex> :D dragon 32! http://www.reghardware.com/2012/04/26/retro_week_product_roundup_12_1980s_classic_micros/page4.html
<mungojerry> guys, how do you backup/decrypt kindle books that only exist on a android device (hence no SN?)
<directhex> presumably the kindle app has a SN
<davmor2> directhex: I used to love me dragon 32
<DJones> directhex: I was surprised they didn't mention the Atari 800, although maybe a little bit before the 1980's when first released
<directhex> DJones, not british?
<directhex> davmor2, the welshest home computer ever made!
<mungojerry> directhex, doesn't seem to
<davmor2> directhex: it kept me entertained for many hours, and taught me to hate Qbert
<directhex> it had classic games like Hungry Horace! and Cuthbert in the Jungle!
<davmor2> directhex: I eventually had to move to an amiga though :)
<hoover> Dragon 32? The 64 rocked, OS/9 and all ;-)
<hoover> Same for me: zx81 (a mate had one), Dragon 64 (got it used), Amiga, then later Linux on PC's
<hoover> oh and we hacked some genie16's and Trash 80s in school
<hoover> our 9th term was the first to use computers back in 1982 or thereabouts
<gordonjcp> I saw a Dragon 32 in its box for sale at the Barras a few weeks back
<hoover> I still have mine the cellar
<hoover> including all the cool os9 manuals... cleartext pw's in /etc/passwd...
<hoover> but we had an /etc/passwd ;-)
<hoover> The Dragon was the first machine for me which I hacked on seriously
<hoover> 6809E assembler was mostly good fun ;-)
<hoover> I remember a c64 owning friend commenting on having to design a "loading screen" when we designed an adventure game for both machines
<hoover> I told him "loading screen for what?!" the dragon floppy was blazingly fast compared to the 1541
<hoover> good times, good times.
<mungojerry> directhex, it seems the android version needs patching to show sn
<directhex> android Â¬_Â¬
<directhex> sigh. precise netinst no worky here :/
<directhex> doesn't boot from cd either. problematic.
<hamitron> :/
<hoover> cheers all
<directhex> this is ubuntu-certified hardare @_@
<diplo> :(
<diplo> that sucks then
<directhex> ._. i386 boots
<hamitron> 30 mins download left
<hamitron> :)
<mungojerry> is there any way to make dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sda any faster?
<directhex> mungojerry, BS=8M
<Darael> mungojerry: Use a faster device for /dev/sda?  Consider whether you really need to zero the entire disk?
<directhex> erm, bs=8M
<directhex> capital letters is awk syntax
<mungojerry> directhex, does that def make a difference ?
<mungojerry> i'm 10% of way through atm
<mungojerry> after 45mins
<mungojerry> 20mbs
<mungojerry> i booted off a usb stick
<directhex> mungojerry, you know how hard disks have a cache on them, up to 64M these days?
<mungojerry> yes..
<directhex> mungojerry, you're bypassing it.
<directhex> mungojerry, the "bs" parameter defines block size, i.e. rather than copying one byte at a time, you say "read X bytes from if, output it all to of in one go"
<mungojerry> for some reason i haven't really thought about that for /dev/zero
 * mungojerry discovers he has 16m cache on the laptop drive
<mungojerry> thanks :) working 6x faster now
<directhex> that's why i get paid the big bucks
 * mungojerry reminds himself that a stream of zeroes is stil a file 
 * mungojerry resists the urge to update his 11.10 laptop today
<mungojerry> all my other machines are 10.04 or 12.04
<awilkins> Anyone know of a dot graph viewer that just has a text editor on one side, and the graph on the other, and the graph updates as you type?
<mungojerry> like a scatter graph?
<hamitron> doesn't google search probably do that now? ;)
<awilkins> `dot` the program from graphviz
<hamitron> omg, I forgot i386 is really i686 now
<hamitron> hdd will have to go in another machine it seems
<hamitron> :/
<mungojerry> hamitron, you are the 0.01% who have that requirement :P
<hamitron> oversight
<hamitron> damn it
<hamitron> if I see "i686" in a label, I remember
<hamitron> ;)
 * awilkins thinks hamitron needs Gentoo *ducks*
<hamitron> heh
<hamitron> that machine will stay on slackware
<mungojerry> surely debian cover it?
<hamitron> it would
<hamitron> but I don't want to have 2 different distro to download updates for, when they are nearly the same
<hamitron> ;)
<gordonjcp> oh, the mirrors are buggered
<gordonjcp> deeply annoying, all I want to do is install wireshark
<mungojerry> try other mirrors
 * awilkins uses ubuntu.virginmedia.com because it's on his ISP
<gordonjcp> I've tried that
<cliftonts> hi all
<cliftonts> is there anyone about who'd have a clue about setting up a chron job to download a file from a website?
<bigcalm> Grumble
 * popey tickles bigcalm 
<Darael> ...maybe we could answer if the questioner didn't immediately leave.
<bigcalm> I have a ligitimate need to install software. Of course it's being slowed down by everybody who is late to the 12.04 party
<bigcalm> popey: ta, feeling better now :)
<bigcalm> Time for a pot of coffee I think
<cliftonts> anyone?
<Darael> cliftonts: Ah, you're back.  Well, assuming the URL is stable, you basically want to use wget.
<cliftonts> yes, sorry. I tried to kill a crashed program and got irc instead!!
<popey> BLAMMO!
<popey> * irc lies in a pool of blood
<Darael> popey: I thought for a moment I'd said something stupid.
<cliftonts> I'm trying to modify a script that is used in a Windows program in wine. It uses some external windows program to automate the download.
<bigcalm> cliftonts: sudo echo "1 * * * * wget http://foo.bar/baz.zip" > /etc/cron.daily/get_this_file; sudo chmod 755 /etc/cron.daily/get_this_file
<cliftonts> I was thinking getting Ubuntu to handle that bit would be much better
<cliftonts> bigcalm: Can I ensure that happens first thing in the day?
<Darael> bigcalm: Won't work; the sudo only applies to the echo, not the output redirection.
<bigcalm> Darael: fair enough :)
<bigcalm> cliftonts: "sudo su -" before you start writing that line
<awilkins> `sudo crontab -e` usually works
<Darael> bigcalm: echo "1 * * * * wget http://foo.bar/baz.zip" | sudo tee -a /etc/cron.daily/get_this_file
<Darael> Or, indeed, just edit the crontab as root.
<Darael> Actually, the -a on tee is unnecessary since you don't care about clobbering the contents (because there aren't any, yet)
<awilkins> The default crontab in Ubuntu is full of helpful hints
<cliftonts> it would need to overwrite yesterday's file
<bigcalm> Yes, you can edit the root's crontab, but putting it in a file is more friendly I think
<mungojerry> the removal of minimising apps from unity launcher is super annoying; gonna hve to fix that
<bigcalm> cliftonts: my line was an example to put you in the right direction. You will need to edit wget arguments
<Darael> cliftonts: Have a look at the wget manpage; I'm pretty sure there's one to ensure it does that.  Also look at the -O option to get it in a reliable location.
<mungojerry> does it need to run as root?
<awilkins> No
<Darael> s/one/an argument/
<awilkins> You can run it in your user crontab as long as you own the target location, no?
<mungojerry> i mean... cliftonts ,why does the script need to be run as root
<cliftonts> I rarely work with either cron or wget. Trouble is every time I do I've forgotten everything I learned!
<bigcalm> Actually, ignore my line completely. If you put a file in /etc/cron.daily, you don't include the times (1 * * * *) that it should be run
 * bigcalm goes back to his work
<cliftonts> mungojerry: I never said it needed to be run as root
<soulnafein> should I got for a 64bit or a 32bit of Ubuntu?
<soulnafein> mmm indecision :(
<awilkins> soulnafein, i) How much RAM do you have
<soulnafein> 2 gb... stupid macbook air
<soulnafein> :D
<gord> there aren't many disadvantages to 64bit these days, unless you have a reason for going 32-bit, it wouldn't bother
<soulnafein> gord: is going for 64bit worth the hassle?
<awilkins> The d/l page still says "32bit (recommended)" on the combo box though :-)
<mungojerry> i found a reason the other day, gord..
<gord> soulnafein, what hassle?
<mungojerry> well, a "reason"
<awilkins> soulnafein, There's not really any hassle that I experience
<soulnafein> awilkins, the combo box put me off
<awilkins> I use 64-bit, but I have positive reasons to choose it
<mungojerry> if you install wine, it's a 32-bit app, and installs many 100MB of 32bit libs
<Twinkletoes> Does anybody here have a Juniper support contract? I urgently need to download a 'ScreenOS' firmware update for our spare router. One router is running 6.3, the spare one is running 5.4 and the config isn't fully compatible
<awilkins> In addition, I've had trouble with commercial 32-bit apps that are not packaged properly for a 64-bit distro
<awilkins> But they have fixed their packaging now
<awilkins> Twinkletoes, This post would seem to suggest it's possible to dump the firmware out to TFTP : http://forums.juniper.net/t5/ScreenOS-Firewalls-NOT-SRX/Save-Firmware-to-TFTP/td-p/21722
<cliftonts> excellent! The URL is invalid! lol
<soulnafein> awilkins, I do use wine. Doesn't it work on Ubuntu 64bit?
<Twinkletoes> Oooh, thank you!
<awilkins> soulnafein, I've used wine on 64-bit
<mungojerry> http://askubuntu.com/questions/74690/how-to-install-32-bit-wine-on-64-bit-ubuntu
<awilkins> I think his point was more that it installs crudloads of libraries
<soulnafein> cheers
<cliftonts> ok guys, here's a challenge. What do I do if the file I'm downloading contains a date so the name changes every day?
<awilkins> Write a shell script to do it?
<Darael> Invoke a script from the crontab, and in that script use a command substitution involving date to get the right filename.
<cliftonts> I have no idea where to start with that.
<awilkins> cliftonts, I suggest you look at the man pages for ; `date`, `sed`, `cut` and of course, the bash scripting guide ; http://tldp.org/LDP/abs/html/
<cliftonts> it's going to be a long day isn't it?
<awilkins> The clouds are drawing in outside... it's already been a long day :-(
<mungojerry> i've written a similar script...
<awilkins> Best thing to happen here all week is the cute girl in the office got a haircut that made her cuter.
<awilkins> Other than that, my only satisfaction has been taunting people in IRC
<xplora1a> Look at the date command, the paramerets so that the date appears in the right format for your filename, then you can insert this into a command useing the $(date...) and treat that as a verable.
 * awilkins wonders if he typed that out loud
<Darael> awilkins: When date(1) takes a format-string, why bother with cut?
<awilkins> Darael, True, very true... I guess I just know cut better than date
<awilkins> Unix utils are not pythonic (lots of ways to do the same thing rather than one way to do something)
<xplora1a> Oh and use $(...) rather than the backtick as that is much easier to follow when looking at the code.
<mungojerry> cp /tmp/theoremoftheday.png ~fred/totd_backups/totd_`date +%Y%m%d`.png
<mungojerry> cliftonts, here's an example of copying a file to a file with date in it .
<iclebyte> is gb.archive.ubuntu.com down?
<jpds> iclebyte: No.
<awilkins> iclebyte, Just very stressed, I'm sure
<mungojerry> you need to do the reverse, but it's similar principle
<Darael> xplora1a: Not to mention it behaves in a slightly different fashion (IIRC).  The only real reason to use backticks is if you need bourne compatibility.
<mungojerry> is $thing released? yes . is $otherthing down? maybe.
<xplora1a> Darael: always annoys me to try and understand some scripts that use backticks, is hat a ' or a `
<awilkins> Darael, The other reason to use backticks is because it's quicker to type :-)
<cliftonts> my poor old laptop can't cope!
<BigRedS> I always use backticks in filenames and $() in anything else
<BigRedS> way too common for loops to end up in loops to not start off using $()
<Darael> awilkins: For you, maybe.  I'm using Programmer Dvorak; my brackets and $ are unshifted, and my backtick is shifted.
<xplora1a> awilkins: I defy you to understand a command with nested backticks in it!!
<awilkins> I'm not what you'd call a big shell scripter
<BigRedS> how do you next backticks?
<Darael> Is it even possible to nest backticks without some layer in between?
<BigRedS> *nest
<Darael> Escaping them, possibly?
<BigRedS> Surely the first two would be one pair, the second two the next etc.
<BigRedS> but then you'd need to unescape them inside the outer pair...
<iclebyte> okay, thanks. bytemark's mirror looks happier
<cliftonts> that's annoying wget downloaded the file to.....somewhere
<mungojerry> anyone running 12.04 care to try something for me?
<awilkins> cliftonts, $pwd, by default ; doesn't -o specify where?
<awilkins> mungojerry, sure
<Darael> cliftonts, awilkins: -O specifies where (upper-case)
<cliftonts> I specified where. It isn't there
<mungojerry> awilkins, start gedit, and ensure it is in focus, but not maximised. hit alt-prtscrn - what screenshot do you get?
<cliftonts> 2012-04-26 16:22:09 (114 KB/s) - `/home/gareth/.wine/drive_c/Program Files/MetaTrader-Alpari UK/experts/files/html/Calendar.csv' saved [11311/11311]
<cliftonts> so why isn't it there?
<awilkins> mungojerry, I get a shot of just the gedit window (which is what I'd expect)
<mungojerry> awilkins, hmm
<xplora1a> BigRedS: example VAR=`echo hello \`echo there\`` is the same as VAR=$(echo hello $(echo there))
<selinuxium> only 2 hours until barsoho!
<mungojerry> i get the whole screen
<mungojerry> not sure why
<awilkins> mungojerry, It's not a laptop keyboard?
<mungojerry> no. it's a wireless one for desktop pc
<soulnafein> wow
<mungojerry> i'll use shutter instead
<soulnafein> the new "take the tour" page on ubuntu.com is a very interesting approach
<soulnafein> :D
<mungojerry> wasn't sure if a general bug or just me
<soulnafein> I'm pretty sure he will confuse the hell out of people though
<soulnafein> :D
<BigRedS> xplora1a: ah yeah, that should've been obvious!
<BigRedS> glad I didn't think of that really, I'll try to forget it :)
<awilkins> mungojerry, Note, I have a dim memory of tinkering with that, since I take screenshots semi-regularly, if there was a problem, I may have fixed it
<BigRedS> I have something of a reputation for inelegant oneliners already...
<cliftonts> Thanks guys. I got it working.....sort of. Now I just need to sort out this date script thingie
<mungojerry> soulnafein, flippin' clever innit?
<soulnafein> mungojerry, it is!
<mungojerry> can't minimise the rubbish bin though
<awilkins> I like the way the browser in it actually works
<xplora1a> cliftonts: so what format is the date in the filename?
<mungojerry> i wish my computer was as quick as this demo
<cliftonts> I can't remember but I'll be able to sort that. I was more concerned with just getting the first load of data and making the main script run correctly
<cliftonts> everything else is just faffing!
<mungojerry> i might full-screen it on a person's PC :P
<mungojerry> wow, you can move windows!?!?!
<dogmatic69> I updated 12.04 yesterday and now things are broken :/
<dogmatic69> just restarted and my background is gone and the unity bar is grey
<davmor2> dogmatic69: were you using a backdrop from the last Ubuntu release?
<mungojerry> awilkins, try entering the url of the tour into the browser inside the tour...
<davmor2> dogmatic69: if so then there is a bug for that, basically the new backdrops replace the old ones meaning the old ones no longer exist so rather than falling back to the default it displays nothing I don't think they had time to fix it for this release though
<dogmatic69> ?
<dogmatic69> it was a clean 12.04b2 install and then had a major update yesterday 700mb+-
<mungojerry> unity --reset ? warning, it will trash your settings (launcher icon size etc)
<dogmatic69> and now my plotter does not work
<cliftonts> Right thanks guys, I'm off
<cocoa117> how do you run program in different userid?
<zleap> cocoa117, as in root or anotjher normal user
<cocoa117> zleap, in other normal user
<zleap> not sure
<cocoa117> no worries
<cocoa117> zleap, got it, sudo -i -u userid
<zleap> ah
<zleap> thanks thast ius useful to me too
<cocoa117> glade to share
<zleap> np
<Darael> cocoa117: Depending what you're doing, you may not need the -i (sudo -u [UID|username] $command)
<cocoa117> Darael, what is parameter -i for? i can't be bothered to check man
<cocoa117> ;)
<Darael> cocoa117: Simulates initial login.  If you run without a command, you get a login shell for the target user (equivalent to 'su -')
<cocoa117> Darael, i c, i keep that in mind, thanx
<Darael> Can be useful if you're doing a whole series of things that could potentially take more time than your sudo timeout (like things involving unreliable network connections) - you sudo -i first, then do your stuff as the target user, then ctl+d to go back to your normal shell.
<Darael> I have used it at least once when "sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get upgrade; sudo shutdown -h now" would have prompted for passwords again.  I since found a better way, but still.
<awilkins> Ok boys and girls : poll - how long, in developer time, to write a single-sign-on solution
<awilkins> For a single web platform (say, ASP.NET)
<zleap> not sure a few weeks if you take in to account testing stuff, depends on howmuch time you spend on it i guess
<awilkins> Any advances on "a few weeks"?
<zleap> who is doing it
 * zleap was just guessing as i thought u were doing this
<zleap> but either way it should not take that long i would have gussed
<awilkins> Oh, I'm trying to get a feel for how ridiculous the quoted time I've just seen (for a project that's actually done now, so not an estimate, an actual execution time)
<awilkins> I thought it was utterly insane but I thought I'd better check it's just not me
<Darael> Depending on the complexity required, I reckon something basic wouldn't take more than a day, and I wouldn't expect a reasonably-thorough-and-well-tested solution to take more than a week.  I've never tried, mind, so those may be wildly incorrect.
<awilkins> Wisdom of the crowds, sir, even if you poll a few wildly inaccurate estimates (not saying yours is) the average is usually right
<Darael> It would, of course, take longer to Do It Right (tm) than to do something Good Enough.
<Darael> I'm not sure which I'm quoting for.
<awilkins> Neither am I, but I'm damn sure it's not worth 6 full time developers for a year
<Darael> ...what.
<Darael> Even taking into account that .NET is involved... what.
<awilkins> Yeah, I'm wondering where their secret batcave stocked with friendly young ladies is.
<dogmatic69> had to manually reset all the theme stuff.
<dogmatic69> anyone know what I can do about my plotter now? It was working before the 12.04 stable update
<kvarley> Ubuntu has changed it's naming format for 64-bit images and it's confused me. It says "64-bit Mac (AMD64) desktop CD" and further recommends to use an "Intel x86" image for Intel processors. I have an Intel processor but it's 64-bit - do I still use the AMD64 iso?
<dogmatic69> its just usb connection
<SuperEngineer> hmmm.. whole world downloading upgrade - you'd think *someone* would remember to upgrade the channel topic
 * SuperEngineer sniggers
<Laney> for some reason it is +t so only an op can do it
<SuperEngineer> yeh - trouble is they're all out "rehearsing" the rel parties ;)
<awilkins> kvarley, Yes, the AMD64 image is suitable for all intel 64 bit processors apart from itanium (not supported)
<kvarley> Thanks awilkins, that's what I have always got in the past. Just the new naming structure confused me slightly!
<directhex> kvarley, this shouldn't be a new thing. Debian made the decision around 2003 or so to name the architecture for the instruction set based on AMD's 64-bit extensions to x86 "amd64", the same way i386 was used because it was Intel's instruction set
<directhex> when Intel cloned AMD64, they were a compatible instruction set - but it's still AMD's architecture, and changing an arch name in debian is really hard
<kvarley> directhex: It was more the Mac mention and weird message about the Intel image that puzzled me. Thanks for the info =]
<bigcalm> !isitoutyet
<lubotu3> Yes, Ubuntu 12.04 was released on April 26th, the official announcement can be read at https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-announce/2012-April/000159.html, download it at www.ubuntu.com
<bigcalm> At least that's changed
<bigcalm> When do we start on 12.10?
<popey> tomorrow
<directhex> huge blarging @ release. it's almost impossible to net-install ubuntu today
<bigcalm> Good good :)
<directhex> *any* version of ubuntu
<popey> http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/quantal/
<popey> today
<Laney> i heard the s3 mirrors are good
<bigcalm> popey: shouldn't !isitoutyet say no then? ;)
<kvarley> directhex: That's a good thing =] shows the demand =]
<directhex> kvarley, absolutely farking great when i'm trying to set up a user's laptop at work, and can't
<directhex> Laney, didn't work for me. installer moaned about it
<kvarley> directhex: Use one of the torrents for the desktop/server image?
<directhex> kvarley, you assume i have much blank media in the officew
<kvarley> directhex: Ah =/
<bigcalm> USB memory stick?
<directhex> kvarley, in the end i resorted to an iso, though, yes
<directhex> kvarley, then another iso when it turns out the hw is incompatible with 64-bit kernels
<Laney> "Canonical's Ubuntu 12.04"
<Laney> hmm
<kvarley> directhex: =/ I always try and have a spare SD card to use as an installer image. Sometimes it whines at me though and fails =/
<popey> bah
<popey> Laney: along the same lines  http://www.reghardware.com/2012/04/26/valve_suggests_steam_for_linux_is_close/
<popey> check the headline (not the url)
<bigcalm> directhex: a 64 bit cpu not liking a 64 bit kernel?
<kvarley> Laney: Canonical are turning into an evil corporation. =/ They removed "Linux" from the kernel line.
<Laney> no
<ahayzen> Hi ... just backing up ready for 12.04 ... any of u tried using oneconf or 'sync between computers'?
<Laney> a) Canonical didn't write that article
<Laney> b) What is "the kernel line" pelase?
<Laney> please
<bigcalm> Linux is still in uname
<Laney> it's in the release announcement
<popey> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PrecisePangolin/ReleaseNotes/UbuntuDesktop
<kvarley> Laney: http://dissociatedpress.net/2012/03/27/ubuntu-were-not-linux/
<popey> "Linux v3.2.14 Kernel"
<popey> kvarley: that article is crap
<popey> read the comments not the article
<popey> zonker was daft to post that
<kvarley> popey: Ok =] I read it one morning before I had to dash off so didn't get chance to finish it
<kvarley> Either way - Ubuntu seems to be back on the ball =]
<ali1234> of all the things you can complain about, that's got to be the stupidest
<Paul2> zomg where r u guys?
<ali1234> all the posts about "1990s linux geeks" and "this is why linux will never be popular"
<smittix> Urgh slow mirrors :(
<ali1234> just as if anyone who isn't a geek is going to read that blog post
<directhex> smittix, tell me about it Â¬_Â¬
<SuperEngineer> oo so nice to see all see all these tactful dip;omatic responses
<smittix> I am just trying to download virtualbox @ 12.6 b/s
<Paul2> dear ppl. come to pub, open beer tab. love Paul
<Myrtti> I'm still waiting for the torrent of xubuntu alternate 64-bit to start orking
<smittix> :/
<BigRedS> Paul2: are you in the pub already?
<Darael> smittix: sounds like what I've been dealing with for the past week.  I do not know whether to despise rural-Indian flakey-CDMA network connections, or be grateful that I have a connection at all.
<smittix> :)
<smittix> Hmm odd, Getting a GPG error now.
<davmor2> Myrtti: did you get it from cdimages apparently there are issues with the torrents site
<Myrtti> yup
<Paul2> I am. i definately don't have a problem
<smittix> Anyone seen this before? GPG error: http://archive.canonical.com precise Release: The following signatures were invalid: BADSIG 40976EAF437D05B5 Ubuntu Archive Automatic Signing Key <ftpmaster@ubuntu.com>
<Paul2> singlehandedly keeping the pub industry out of recession
<SuperEngineer> Myrtti: a favour please... thinking of upgrading Xubuntu 11.10 on a netbook to 12.04 -save me the hassle of live cd & give us a clue pretty please... safe/good/etc.?
<Myrtti> SuperEngineer: I've actually returned to using Ubuntu after four years of exile in Xubuntuland, so I can't help you :-(
<SuperEngineer> Myrtti: ok. thanks anyway
<Myrtti> I'm just the fairy godmother seeding torrents :-P
<jacobw> evenage
 * SuperEngineer resists temptation to hit 2 pooters saying "Unable to..."  - why not just replace it with "Sorry - we're a bit popular right now!"  ;)
<bigcalm> Because that might not be the reason
<SuperEngineer> bigcalm:  so 2 [currently, 3 in total] pooters have all got a bug stopping a connection to upgrade server?  hmmm... odd that - all other conxns fine ;)
<bigcalm> Today it might be the case, but one cannot assume that it is. Safer with a generic term
<SuperEngineer> ok - "Sorry - we're a bit popular right now! Didn't you think everybody else would be the doing the same - Doh!"  ;)
<jacobw> torrents are cool
<bigcalm> popey: what was the designer's reaction to my photo?
<popey> heh
<popey> well, yeah, it's not gonna work is it?
 * popey goes to the pub
<davmor2> popey: have a good one
 * SuperEngineer raises a virtual glass to popey 
<bigcalm> Doh
<bigcalm> popey: have a great release party :)
<SuperEngineer> The melting point of tungsten is 6192 degrees Fahrenheit. The melting point of an upgrade server is 6192 users.
<jacobw> fahrenheit is a ridiculous unit of temperature
<SuperEngineer> jacobw: mebe - but that wasn't so much fun expressed in centigrade!
<SuperEngineer> spoilsport
 * AlanBell heads for London
<zleap> AlanBell, have a good time :)
 * SuperEngineer raises a virtual glass to AlanBell  
 * BigRedS wanders off to the pub
 * SuperEngineer raises a virtual glass to BigRedS 
<SuperEngineer> [ SuperEngineer's virtual glass raising arm is getting tired! ]
<hamitron> hmmm
<hamitron> living room pc won't boot now \o/
<hamitron> just get a black screen in text mode
<hamitron> can't try get it working though, people seem to not be willing to miss soaps
<hamitron> ;)
<AlanBell> http://digital.cabinetoffice.gov.uk/2012/04/26/open-standards-consultation-important-update/
<AlanBell> thanks to microsoft being caught playing dirty there is another month to respond to the consultation
<awilkins> Ooh, which consultation?
 * awilkins takes vicarious pleasure from MS being brung low for being naughty
<AlanBell> http://consultation.cabinetoffice.gov.uk/openstandards/ that one
<AlanBell> please fill it in
<awilkins> Does Zotero let you annotate pages?
<MartijnVdS> Zotero?
<awilkins> 'tis a Firefox plugin for academic research
<awilkins> bibliographies, citations, etc
<awilkins> Thinking might be useful for this Cabinet Office thing
<awilkins> AlanBell, BTW, I've had peeps from the Cabinet Office sniffing around asking questions about our use of OSS this month (I work for the NHS)
<oimon> evening ..have a kindle question rather OT i know...but i just deregistered a device and registered with another user, downloaded some books and then registered back with the original user, and the books are still there! i thought you have to decrypt them to keep them on your device?
<awilkins> Do you only have to be registered to download them>
<awilkins> ?
<awilkins> I've no idea what it's designed behaviour should be though
<oimon> i mean, user A has X books. deregister and register as user B (Y books). download and read some books. now register as user A again, and i see X+Y books
<oimon> i thought Y books would be removed upon deregistering user B
<Guest57359> I've just installed Ubuntu 12.04. Only one annoyance so far - it has defaulted to the US mirror for packages. (I installed without a network connection which I suspect is why it's done it.) How can I manually change it to a UK/GB server?
<awilkins> People have no lurker-patience anymore
<directhex> he left already? ._.
<X3N_> maybe he was worried he had connected to the us freenode mirror
<awilkins> >-<
<yothsoggoth> I know, I was about to go Google it for him and he'd left -.-
<awilkins> It's easy enough ; Software Center / Edit / Software Sources
<awilkins> Don't even need to navigate the menu with New! HUDMatic Menus! (TM)
<yothsoggoth> lol
<oimon> keep forgetting to use HUD :-\
<MartijnVdS> I've disabled it
<MartijnVdS> because I only opened it by accident
<dogmatic69> a
<dogmatic69> internet is not working and irc is :/
<gordonjcp> IRC *is* the Internet
<MartijnVdS> most important part of it
<dogmatic69> I think my server has died
<bigcalm> What did you do to it?
<jacobw> apache died?
<jacobw> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-17822919
<jacobw> this is _crazy_
<dwatkins> so is Scottish independance, imho
<bigcalm> Damn Domino's for their Â£5.99 for any size pizza
<bigcalm> I fear I may have scoffed too much
<dogmatic69> :O
 * dogmatic69 must have missed that one
<ali1234> what is that article even about?
<mattt> bigcalm: we did the 5 pizzas for 25 from dominos for lunch yesterday, very tasty :P
<vankan> hello anbody here
<vankan> hello?
<bigcalm> dogmatic69: got an email about it today. The offer is on until the 29th
<bigcalm> dogmatic69: Â£9.99 delivered, Â£5.99 collection
<dogmatic69> vankan: nope, not a single person
<bigcalm> I live too far for delivery
<dogmatic69> beats the usual 18+ for a large
<vankan> can some one help me with installation with ubuntu here
<dogmatic69> vankan: click next till it says done
<vankan> i want install ubuntu to select partion how i can do that
<vankan> ok bye hv a nice dah
 * jacobw wonders if apress pdf's are drm free
<ali1234> why did we ever switch from seperate /usr to initrds?
<ali1234> well, at least we won't be inflicted with systemd for another couple of years
<ali1234> speaking of which
<ali1234> looks like the bug with rhythmbox getting stuck isn't caused by pulseaudio. it's my other favourite program, gstreamer
 * jacobw likes pulseaudio
<ali1234> i like it too
<ali1234> i would like it even more if it worked properly on a regular basis
<chris_w> are there any recommendations which local apt cache to use? i found apt-cacher-ng and squid-deb-proxy.
<popey> *burp*
 * hamitron shakes head
<Nafallo> o_O
<czajkowski> herrro
<czajkowski> Nafallo: where were you hiding
<dogmatic69> ctrl+z is the new alt-tab
<Nafallo> I wasn't
<Nafallo> I have no reason to hide, AFAIK?
<dogmatic69> popey: what was the mc channel again, I lost the tab between updates :/
<dogmatic69> it used to be easy to remember
<popey>  ##bitfolk-minecraft
<popey> ?
<popey> or #snowflake on irc.log.org.uk#
<popey> choo choo
<dogmatic69> think it was the bitfolk one, which is your server?
<popey> /76
<popey> bah
<Nafallo> popey: /load go.pl
#ubuntu-uk 2012-04-27
<knightwise> morning
<knightwise> ok
<knightwise> new version of unity looks slightly bearable .
<knightwise> better then before i must say
<knightwise> but what is the SUPER key on a mac keyboard ?
<knightwise> Aha
<knightwise> found it
<Darael> knightwise: At a guess, Command?
<knightwise> got it
<knightwise> must get used to this a little
<gordonjcp> what's the super key anyway?
<ali1234> what people who don't use windows call the windows key
<knightwise> Super key
<gordonjcp> oh
 * gordonjcp prepares to reinstall
<gordonjcp> what's it used for in 12.04
<knightwise> kinda like the start menu
<knightwise> lets you launch the apps
<gordonjcp> heh, okay, so I can't use 12.04 then
<gordonjcp> not if I want to be able to actually type
<Darael> gordonjcp: Hm?  The function of <super> hasn't changed, I don't think.
<AlanBell> you can turn off super to activate the dash
<Darael> It's just a case of tap it, and the Dash pops up.
<Darael> And, as AlanBell says, even that can be turned off.
<AlanBell> and alt to activate the HUD because that is even more prone to false activations
<gordonjcp> Darael: tap *what* exactly?
<AlanBell> I have super+alt to get the HUD
<Darael> gordonjcp: the super key.
<gordonjcp> Darael: what super key?
<AlanBell> gordonjcp: you can do alt+F1
<gordonjcp> Darael: doesn't look like IBM Model Ms have them
<AlanBell> then enter
<Darael> gordonjcp: If you don't have one, I'm pretty sure the Dash is still accessible by alt+f1
<ali1234> if you don't have a super key i'm pretty sure you won't miss it since it doesn't do anything that can't be done another way and is remapable anyway
<Darael> Indeed.  Isn't that one of the Keyboard Layout options?
 * Darael checks.
<Darael> OK, no, it doesn't appear to be.  Nevertheless, its functions are all available in other ways.
<popey> uh
<AlanBell> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-17857189 issyl0 on the BBC again!
<ali1234> "We tried one, it froze, we then tried a number of keyboard commands to  force it to quit, but nothing happened, so we had to reboot."
<popey> "There are two programming languages available to try on the Pi: Scratch and Python."
<popey> *sigh*
<ali1234> what is scratch?
<gordonjcp> "About 1 day 10 hours remaining"
<AlanBell> logo++
<gordonjcp> *really*?
<ali1234> "As the operating system can only be put on an SD card, which has  very limited capacity, they won't become mainstream Windows machines," - what does that even supposed to mean?
 * AlanBell sends gordonjcp some extra internets
<ali1234> SD card would somehow be harder for microsoft to deal with than the obscure and underpowered arm hardware?
<Nafallo> that 32GB isn't enough for Windows
<ali1234> 32GB is about 2 times what you need for a windows 7 ultimate install
<AlanBell> that bit doesn't make any sense really
<ali1234> 512mb of ram isn't though
<Nafallo> I know. I was trolling.
<AlanBell> well it does, but for the wrong reason as you say
 * AlanBell sends Nafallo back under the bridge
<MooDoo> morning all
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<popey> lo
<DJones> Morning
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo , popey and DJones
<issyl0> AlanBell: Hah, yes.  :-)
<MooDoo> brobostigon: morning
<TheOpenSourcerer> Morning earthlings
 * brobostigon spots issyl0 with rory callen-jones.
<brobostigon> morning TheOpenSourcerer
<TheOpenSourcerer> Hey brobostigon
<diplo> Morning all
<diplo> Anyone with a headache this morning ?
<brobostigon> diplo: yes.
<issyl0> popey: Yeah, well...
 * brobostigon reckons issyl0 is now famous.
<hoover> Morning
<daubers> Morning
<daubers> How're the repos this morning?
 * hoover updated his eeepc to 12.04 yesterday, smooth sailing
<hoover> good work, lads ;-)
<DJones> issyl0: I wondered why you got a "famous" mention, but just came across the article on the BBC website, so that explains it
<dwatkins> I should probably update, but my server is 5 miles away, so if it fails to reboot I'll have to wait to get to the console.
<MartijnVdS> 5 miles is walking distance :P
<hoover> ;-)
<dwatkins> MartijnVdS: I cycle it most days ;)
<dwatkins> I just mean that if I do the do-dist-upgrade now, and it doesn't reboot okay, I'll be without a server until about 5pm.
<mattt> still need to get me a small PC for home that i can use to host email
<dwatkins> I use my old netbook, it has this handy feature which equates to a built-in UPS... :)
<mattt> :P
<dwatkins> I was surprised how well it performs.
<mattt> i have an msi wind lying about, but the last time i tried booting it it went into a reboot loop
<Darael> Netbooks and laptops also usually have nice low power draw, which is good for a home server.
<mattt> hope it's not bad RAM
<hoover> My eeepc (1005) sometimes fails to turn on
<hoover> Removing the battery pack for an hour or so usually fixes it
<mattt> interesting
<dwatkins> indeed, Darael, I think mine takes 16 Watts when charging - that's a tenth the power my old server draws.
<czajkowski> aloha
<hoover> Morning
<DJones> issyl0: Don't know if you've looked at the article recently, but there's about 50 comments, 19 general ones about the pi, 1 complaining about hacking and hacking weekends and whether they're legal and 30 defending them pointing out the difference between hacking and cracking
<popey> hahah
<popey> loons
<MartijnVdS> popey: BBC viewers :P
<Darael> "It is irrational to expect rational behaviour from human beings.  Therefore we expect rational behaviour from them."
<gord> i just assumed you were talking about any mailing list that ever existed ever
<mungojerry> me too lol
<dwatkins> which article is this? I'm curious.
<DJones> dwatkins: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-17857189
<dwatkins> thanks DJones
<dwatkins> I'm a bit concerned these devices will end up being relegated to a cupboard in most schools.
<dwatkins> Clearly there's a lot of interest from home-based users, especially because of the price, but for schools, I can't see them finding them any different from a PC.
<mungojerry> price
<dwatkins> You still need to have the school buy a keyboard, mouse, display (and probably a different display if you want to use HDMI), though.
<mungojerry> portability, no need for power+networking infrastructure
<DJones> Thinking about it, we perhaps should be more concerned tha Rory Cellen-Jones having hdmi cables and spare hdmi cable tv's in his loft, BBC salaries must be too high
<mungojerry> you can wheel it into classrooms with monitors etc, without the need for special computer rooms
<dwatkins> If the kids buy them themselves, great, but if they're to be used in a class, I'm concerned they'll either get rarely used, or worse, stolen.
<mungojerry> my local schools supply of macbooks were stolen
<mungojerry> i think they had those for "portability"
<dwatkins> my dad's office got RAM-raided once, quite literally.
<dwatkins> I think at the time RAM was worth more per unit weight than gold.
<Knightwise> hmm dumb question but
<Knightwise> how do i install java
<Knightwise> want to install azeureus and it naggs about Java
<Darael> !java
<lubotu3> To just use java you need a "Java Runtime Environment" (JRE) and/or a browser plugin. If that is not sufficient you will need a "Java Development Kit" (JDK) aka "Software  Development Kit" (SDK).  Please see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Java about how to install one of three current implementations.
<Knightwise> You need to upgrade to JRE 1.4.x or newer from http://java.sun.com
<andylockran> guys, any iudea how to change the default audio output device on an acer revo running 12.04 LTS via the CLI ?
<mungojerry> Then we turned it on, and watched with glee as lines of computer code scrolled up the screen and, after a moment of worrying blackness, a giant Raspberry Pi logo appeared.
<dwatkins> Knightwise: isn't that now called Vuze?
<mungojerry> ah, rory CJ who using linux once every 5 years
<dwatkins> mungojerry: reminds me of when I had a BBC Micro... I suspect that's partly what's driving this - nostalgia for the BBC Micro and other such 8-bit machines.
<mungojerry> yeah, it's fun
<mungojerry> what's the current cost to getting a R Pi delivered?
<popey> uhm
<dwatkins> absolutely, I just hope this can be appreciated by kids at school as well
<popey> the rpi doesn't need hdmi at all
<popey> it has composite out
<dwatkins> I think I paid 35 pounds for mine, mungojerry
<popey> so can be used on an old crappy telly
<dwatkins> popey: yeah, but schools have VGA monitors :-/
<mungojerry> i don't think r CJ has those
<popey> dvi -> vga converter
<popey> they come very cheap
<popey> cheaper than new monitors
 * mungojerry has a crappy TV
<popey> \o/ crappy tv
<dwatkins> Does the Pi output something which can be cheaply converted to DVI?
<mungojerry> too heavy to steal
<mungojerry> by "crappy" i mean it has a tube and nice pciture
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: HDMI can be cheaply converted, yes
<popey> hdmi can easily be converted to dvi
<dwatkins> ok cool
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: it's electrically compatible, all you need is a plug with HDMI on one end and DVI on the other (check male/femaleness!)
<mungojerry> is there an x86 pi live distro that allows you to supplement your classroom of pi's with the same OS on a eee pc or old PC?
<dwatkins> so, to use a Pi in a school which already has computers (which may be just as powerful) you need to buy the Pi, a HDMI-DVI converter and a DVI-VGA converter, an SD card and powersupply for each Pi.
<popey> mungojerry: debian âº
<gord> well i thought that hdmi-> dvi was only compatible with the digital signal part of the dvi spec? so you couldn't convert the digital dvi signal to an analogue vga signal easily?
<MartijnVdS> gord: Indeed, you can't.
<dwatkins> I'm not trying to put out the fire, so to speak, but I'm concerned this could all end up being a big flash in the pan.
<popey> bummer
<mungojerry> popey, but branding and exact packages and layout too?
<MartijnVdS> gord: but most DVI monitors are DVI-D (or -I: both analog and digital -- digital preferred)
<Knightwise> popey: let it be known .. i like unity a lot better in 12.04
<popey> hah
<gord> composite to vga is fairly possible though
<MartijnVdS> gord: low res
<mungojerry> dwatkins, or maybe pi and cotton candy etc will inspire a new generation of ultra cheap and decent ARM comptuers the size of an altoids tin
<ali1234> composite to vga??
<MartijnVdS> composite to any old TV
<Darael> MartijnVdS: The original context was one of VGA monitors, though.
<dwatkins> mungojerry: hopefully, although I gather the ARM version in the Pi isn't hugely well documented, and only certain distros are ported to it
<ali1234> hdmi to vga is probably cheaper
<MartijnVdS> Darael: But.. DVI/HDMI monitors are dirt cheap
<gord> turns a 30 quid rpi into a 130 quid expense though
<dwatkins> gord: my point exactly
<ali1234> $30
<dwatkins> might as well keep the old computers
<mungojerry> hmm, my unity desktop seems sluggish, after running for 6 days, however overall CPU and other load is low
<gord> unclog your tubes
<ali1234> if you already have a computer the pi basically does nothing you can't already do
<dwatkins> ali1234: that was also my concern, yes
<ali1234> but we've known that since the start
<mungojerry> it's a start though
<dwatkins> so what market are they going for, schools?
<ali1234> yeah
<mungojerry> every journey starts with a step
<ali1234> primary schools i guess
<andylockran> :)
<dwatkins> I'm all for computer-related education being improved, but I can just see most schools adding up the costs and not bothering getting them
<andylockran> good work
<mungojerry> when i was a student i had to code in a notepad and type up when i got to the lab
<mungojerry> and i'm not that old..
<dwatkins> mind you, I've seen worse happen - a school my mum worked at got a bunch of Macs because the head liked the way they look, but now has compatability issues, for example
<Knightwise> when i was a student we had to code .. on paper .. in the snow .. uphill .. both ways
<mungojerry> rpi is very little expense. i know students at my place of work are running around with idevices and smoking etc, but not all
<ali1234> considering it doesn't even have a case, let alone keyboard and monitor, it isn't *that* cheap
<dwatkins> for embedded devices, such as someone might make in a university project, I think the Pi is great
<ali1234> for embedded work it is useless
<mungojerry> ali1234, i can give those away for free
<dwatkins> ali1234: there are several companies offering cases already, mine is on order
<dwatkins> ali1234: how come it's useless for embedded work?
<mungojerry> i'm in the process of throwing away 10-20 17inch lcd monitors
<ali1234> it doesn't have any decent interfaces and you can't program it on a low level
<ali1234> hey can i have one?
<popey> its not the final device
<ali1234> a 4:3?
<popey> the final one will have a case
<dwatkins> I notice there's an add-on board for controlling servos etc. but you may as well get an Arduino for that sort of thing
<mungojerry> ali1234, if you collect, you can have 10
<ali1234> i'll pay shipping if it's not super expensive
<mungojerry> and i'll throw in a dimension 3100
<ali1234> what's that?
<mungojerry> http://support.dell.com/support/edocs/systems/dim3100/en/sm/specs0.htm
<ali1234> er, no thanks
<ali1234> is that a desktop?
<mungojerry> yeah
<mungojerry> good for mumbuntu
<ali1234> no.
<mungojerry> (and for me too in fact)
<ali1234> my mother already has an ubuntu netbook that she doesn't use
<mungojerry> how are the mirrors holding up? i want to update my remainign 11.10 box
<ali1234> still a bit slow for me
<popey> ikonia: 10.04.4 has ctrl+shift+c
<popey> yeah, same here
<popey> .de mirror is usually less loaded than uk
<ali1234> i started updating when the last person asked, it just finished
<mungojerry> do germans still prefer KDE?
<mungojerry> (wild generalisation)
<mungojerry> ali1234, how long?
<ali1234> half an hour or so
<popey> like the hoff, kde is 'big in germany
<BigRedS> I've always been confused by that
<BigRedS> (kde in germany, not the hoff)
<mungojerry> BigRedS, i think it's a suse throwback
<mungojerry> i started on kde in '99
<mungojerry> i think. i was self starting and there wasn't so much good info at the time
<mungojerry> i really enjoyed KDE on my work PC in the 3.5.x years
<mungojerry> i wonder how the desktop will look in 5 years. all this unity arguing of these days will look silly.
<BigRedS> Yeah, way back when KDE was the sensible DE I seem to recall
<BigRedS> or I was weird
<mungojerry> i did customise it heavily
<mungojerry> i'm sure kde4 would look good if i spent 2 days on it, but i can't be bothered to learn
<BigRedS> nah, I've spent over a week trying to use it before
<BigRedS> it's just plain not very good
<mungojerry> after giving up on unity many times, i finally have been able to use it solidly since 12.04beta and have decided to use it on my home PCs too
<popey> thats good to hear
<bigcalm> Hazar, I have awoken!
<Myrtti> wut. wait... no, doesn't still make any sense. http://techcrunch.com/2012/04/26/london-olympics-to-visitors-dont-share-what-you-see/
<mungojerry> i'll still probably disable global menu when it's possible to cleanly do it in a supported way (12.10..)
<popey> Myrtti: insane isnt it
<mungojerry> nothing surprises me anymore about the UK
<Knightwise> sudo add-apt-repository ppa:jd-team/jdownloader
<Knightwise> sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get install jdownloader
<Knightwise> oops sorry , wrong window :(
<mungojerry> popey, if i was dragging something from the launcher onto trash, would you say that the icon should only get deleted if i let go of the mouse button?
<mungojerry> i was dragging to trash and changed my mind and didn't let go of the button, but it removed it anway
<popey> what type of thing did you delete?
<mungojerry> an icon for a non-running application
<mungojerry> from the launcher
<bigcalm> Yay for not going to the olympics
<mungojerry> e.g. the u1 icon
<popey> where did you let go of the mouse button?
<popey> over the trash?
<mungojerry> no
<mungojerry> i didn't let go at all
<mungojerry> but it went poof!
<mungojerry> (repeatable)
<bigcalm> Myrtti: the top comment is the best ever. Now that I see it, I can't unsee it :D
<popey> mungojerry: what version of unity?
<popey> i cant reproduce on my laptop, running newer unity than you I expect
 * popey boots his desktop running older unity
<mungojerry> 5.10.0
<popey> i cant reproduce on 5.10.0
<mungojerry> popey, sorry, it's not doing it now! (i haven't restart since)
<mungojerry> sorry to waste time..weird
<popey> np
 * mungojerry continues removing tabs from chromium to get the swap usage down
<bigcalm> Wasting time is that IRC was made for
<mungojerry> mine, not other ppls..
<popey> i have installed flashblock which has helped performance loads
<mungojerry> facebook regularly takes 100% cpu
<mungojerry> adblock generally removes unwanted flash, but i'll consider that too
<bigcalm> adblock and flaskblock both help improve performance
<mungojerry> i discovered last night that you can load other peoples books onto your kindle without the need for decryption
<mungojerry> no one mentioned that to me before
<mungojerry> dereg/register as other person/download books/dereg/register as me
<popey> indicator-weather is very crashy
<mungojerry> i have a window for that, and AIX app for android
<popey> yeah, I'll remove it
<hoover> Morning biggie
<dwatkins> ah, I lied - the Eee 901 takes 38 Watts when charging.
<dwatkins> mungojerry: I wonder how many times you can do that
<mungojerry> woops, just remembered i started kazam recording 5 mins ago
<popey> hahah
<popey> you want to do that with the new "raw" recording codec :D
<popey> disk full in 3.. 2.. 1..
<dwatkins> we used to get calls at my last job because log4j was misconfigured by default and didn't do any log rotation - after abotu 6 months, the disk would fill up with logfiles
<mungojerry> is software center limited to english reviews?
<mungojerry> (supposed to be)
<andylockran> howdy
<andylockran> I've got ubuntu booted on my mac :)
<popey> âº
 * popey points andylockran at Daviey 
<andylockran> /me runs away
<dwatkins> andylockran: just Ubuntu, double or triple booted?
<diplo> dwatkins, I found the same issue with SME Server on lots of our customer sites
<diplo> Someone had mistyped logrotate conf and because it failed it's check on the conf it would run
<dwatkins> diplo: I guess it's fairly common on some daemons to not rotate, as they expect the sysadmin to configure that
<diplo> Had multiple sites go down
<dwatkins> oh my
<diplo> This was mistyped by devs :/
<diplo> Not our end
<TheOpenSourcerer> Blimey the Ubuntu update servers are slow this morning...
<TheOpenSourcerer> yawn, yawn, yawn.
<dwatkins> I guess everyone and their best friend are downloading it
<bigcalm> There's a scrap-iron van making its rounds and using a loud hailer to play a loop. Sounds like we're being called for prayer
<Knightwise> grr
<Knightwise> installing owncloud , but cant get it to play nice on a different port
<dwatkins> bow down to the call of capitalism... ;)
<Knightwise> isp is blocking port 80 so i have to put it on a highter port
<dwatkins> Knightwise: they're blocking incoming port 80? wow
<Knightwise> yep  pretty bummer
<gordonjcp> fail ISP is fail
<gordonjcp> who are you on?
<Knightwise> only have incoming ports over 1024
<dwatkins> I was surprised when I discovered port 80 incoming was open when I first setup Apache at home, this was 10 years ago though ;)
<dwatkins> Knightwise: I assume you're running whichever service as root, and it's not just a userland restriction on opening ports <1024
<Knightwise> telenet
<dwatkins> ah ok, other reports about this exist online
<dwatkins> perhaps they got burned by customer machines getting botnetted ;)
<Knightwise> dwatkins: yep , i'm root
<Knightwise> naah , they just don't want you to run a server and hogg their bandwith (lame)
<dwatkins> I think technically the terms of service for NTL (now Virgin) said that I couldn't run server services on my home machine, but I did.
<andylockran> dwatkins: I've got it double booted at the moment
<andylockran> only got a 120GB SSD in the mac, so had to format windows 8 partition (what a shame :p)
<dwatkins> andylockran: heh, yeah
<andylockran> I'm back on OSX for now, need to get work done today but will probably have a play at the weekend.
<andylockran> Priorities are fixing the touchpad so it's smooth, then the suspend/restore :)
<andylockran> I've fot wireless working on it pretty easy, though still involved firmware cutter from broadcom
<davmor2> morning all
<bigcalm> Morning davmor2
<bigcalm> Yay, new kernel for the server. Time to reboot
<bigcalm> Bye bye proxy
<bigcalm> Erm, except that not yet
<bigcalm> I left apt-get upgrade alone
<bigcalm> It was waiting for me to read the changelog before doing anything more
<bigcalm> *grumble*
<bigcalm> Topic says "NOT LONG NOW!". What's it referring to this time? RAT?
<mungojerry> 12.10 alpha
<mungojerry> :D
<SuperEngineer> [if it stays at "NOT LONG NOW" much longer it'll be referrring to Rancid Rat!
<davmor2> bigcalm: morning dude
<Laney> it's referring to UDS
<mungojerry> end of the world.
<Laney> and after that, the diamond jubilee
<mungojerry> wondering whether to try the update from the ISO rather than via apt
 * SuperEngineer wishes there was an "update current version" option on iso
<bigcalm> What did I miss?
<mungojerry> the rapture
<davmor2> bigcalm: nothing much, just the declaration of world piece and the end to hunger
<davmor2> bigcalm: and if you believe that I got a bag of other beauties here :D
<bigcalm> davmor2: I should reboot my server more frequently
<bigcalm> Ello czajkowski :)
<czajkowski> herrr
<czajkowski> o
<AlanBell> choo xhoo
<davmor2> czajkowski: AlanBell: popey: hows the heads after the party?
<AlanBell> off to an open standards round table
<popey> feeling better
<MartijnVdS> Having successfully passed its CE compliance testing, we can now confirm that your Raspberry Pi will be delivered in the week commencing 21/05/2012.
<popey> recovered enough to go to the beer festival tonight
<MartijnVdS> *\o/*
<popey> heh
<popey> Having successfully passed its CE compliance testing, we can now confirm that your Raspberry Pi will be delivered in the week commencing 07/05/2012.
<popey> :D
<MartijnVdS> popey: :|
<popey> whilst I am in america!
<Laney> america you say
 * mungojerry might loiter outside popeys house in an elvis wig
<SuperEngineer> but that's in Europe somewhere isn't it?  ;)
<popey> hmm, Alan Cox just posted a message on G+ saying something like "Maybe the reason nobody has ported unity to other distros is because nobody wants it" then deleted it
<bigcalm> Is it like Alan to stir things?
<mungojerry> i think it's a quote
<mungojerry> from lwn
<popey> ahh
<mungojerry> oh look, it's raining again
<diplo> Guys, if you have home on a seperate partition and want to move it back inside of the / partition can you do that ?
<diplo> Basically want to use the home partition for something else as it's not being used
<mungojerry> i have someone in my office who used to do signifcant stuffs at MS. i was thinking of fullscreening the ubuntu tour on his browser when AFK.
<popey> haha
<dwatkins> take a screenshot of the desktop, then move all the icons off it and set the background to that picture - see how long until they realise they can't double-click "My Computer" ;)
<Darael> diplo: I see no reason you can't umount /home, mount it somewhere else, and rsync its contents to the / partition.
<diplo> I've just read something very similar Darael cheers
<Darael> diplo: That'll cause problems if your root partition is insufficiently large, of course.
<diplo> I've done it the other way multiple times
<bigcalm> diplo: create folder /home_tmp; mv /home/* /home_tmp/; umount /home; [edit /etc/fstab] and remove/edit the entry for /home; mv /home_tmp /home
<diplo> Things i've seen are saying mv isn't good enough because of symlinks etc but this is 4 year old blog
<bigcalm> Maybe do it via a live CD so that you don't write to /home while issuing commands
<mungojerry> enter ras... on google and it already shows rasp pi as top search :D
<diplo> bigcalm, yep my thoughts as well, or recovery console maybe
<diplo> cheers
<Darael> diplo: If mv isn't good enough, rsync && rm ftw.
<diplo> heh, I was thinking the same thing
<mungojerry> rebooting and logging in as root on the ctrl-alt-f1 console doesn't touch /home
<diplo> Guy on the blog i found suggested cpio which i haven't used in years
<diplo> Good point mungojerry
<mungojerry> cpio is useful when extracting rpms
<bigcalm> mungojerry: true, but the system might have cronjobs running for users that do
<bigcalm> Not saying that this is the case for diplo, but it's a consideration
<mungojerry> strictly speaking, this is what single user mode is for
<mungojerry> but live cd's have become more popular
<diplo> Only downside is server is 200+ miles away if it goes wrong :D
<diplo> Thanks anyhoo guys!
<bigcalm> :)
<diplo> Going to go for it anyhoo
<stuphi> diplo: copying directories with tar: (cd /usr && tar -clpsf- *) | (cd /mnt/new && tar -xpsf-)
<diplo> k ta, will look at that as well
<hoover> you can also use -C o save the cd bits
<hoover> to save
<hoover> like so: tar -C /usr-cvpf - . | tar -C /mnt/new -xpf -
<hoover> (blank missing in the above example after /usr)
<diplo> Cheers, right must shoot.. supposed to pick my mate up for dinner in 5 mins :)
<diplo> Thanks again all
<mungojerry> am i being dumb? use startup disk creator to create a usb stick and i can't select the source iso file.
<mungojerry> keeps showing the previous iso i used
<mungojerry> ah..there's a hidden scroll window
<mungojerry> nasty
<stuphi> ls -l
<Myrtti> am I supposed to be able to do a Debian installer USB stick with the Startup Disk Creator? it gives a warning: "An uncaught exception was raised:
<stuphi> ops! :-)
<mungojerry> . .. goats.avi
<Myrtti> Invalid version string 'GNU/Linux'"
<Myrtti> although I suppose Google helps
<mungojerry> anyone aware of an irc channel for scale modelling chat (e.g. airfix)
<silner> Not on Freenode mungojerry
<cliftonts> hi guys, is anyone here able to help me with a query about wine?
<silner> Well I haven't seen one anyway
<mungojerry> i think it's mostly luddites who do modelling
<mungojerry> and me
<mungojerry> cliftonts, maybe, just ask!
<cliftonts> I've got a program which is supposed to call an external program in order to automate downloads from a website
<cliftonts> is it possible to call wget from within wine to do this?
<cliftonts> or are the two environments strictly seperate?
<mungojerry> what do you mean "within wine?"
<mungojerry> what is the wine app you are depending on?
<DJones> Heh, don't know if anybody follows "Queen_UK" on twitter, they've just posted "Ed Miliband on the phone. Bit upset. Says he'd ordered a Raspberry Pi thinking he'd "serve it for pudding". Awkward."
<cliftonts> I mean can a program running in wine ask wget to do something?
<cliftonts> alpari is the name of the software
<cliftonts> basically alpari has a user configurable command to run a second program for this. I want to just put a wget command in there
<mungojerry> you could do something like this http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/linux-software-2/calling-linux-program-from-wine-772450/ or use a wget.exe that works under wine
<mungojerry> the latter is probably a better option ;)
<cliftonts> I was thinking about the windows version of wget. I thought I'd get a second opinion before leaping in. Thanks
<mungojerry> there may be a third way i am unwaware of that the wine irc might help with
<mungojerry> lots of gnu tools are available on windows
<mungojerry> i know some people who insist on using win2000 + loads of cygwin stuff (crazy)
<cliftonts> my next problem will be finding a way to assemble the wget command to include monday's date
<silner> I still like 2000, but it's too much trouble toi install and patch up to SP4 so I gave up last year
<mungojerry> and rather unsupported noawadyas
<cliftonts> it's downloading a file that's generated weekly and is named to include each monday's date so the script needs to handle that. but that's for another day
<cliftonts> I don't touch windows at all! It's just too much hard work
<mungojerry> cliftonts, is the file linked anywhere from a static page?
<mungojerry> also, i'm sure there's a windows gnu date command too :)
<cliftonts> I suppose it is, yes. What are you thinking?
<mungojerry> or you can alternatively use linux to download the file and not require wget on alpari, but just use the file locally
<cliftonts> the problem is that it's monitoring financial trades and needs to regularly download the file
<cliftonts> alpari decides when it needs to be downloaded.
<cliftonts> I thought along those lines but it ends up just sitting there looking dumb when it should be trading because the file becomes out of date many times in the day
<cliftonts> for the moment I think I'll just handle the date issue manually. We'll see how it goes.
<andylockran> loving Spotify Controller
<andylockran> works with Spotify on Linux great :)
<andylockran> port 1258
<cliftonts> anyway, thanks mungojerry. I'd better get going, I'm being summoned!
<directhex> this ubuntu mirror is 10x faster than the default one
<hoover> cheers, have a nice weekend all
<popey> directhex: which one?
<directhex> deb http://mirror.krystal.co.uk/ubuntu/ precise-updates main universe restricted multiverse
<directhex> getting 3 meg/sec. so still slow, but good enough
<popey> \o/ lunchtime
<popey> nice
 * popey tickles bigcalm 
<directhex> 4.5M, better
<directhex> still slow
<directhex> ARGH
<directhex> upgrade keeps stopping, and showing a debconf window in the VTE pane
<DJones> Anybody near Tottenham COurt Road/Capper Street in London? http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2136105/BREAKING-NEWS-Thousand-workers-evacuated-amid-central-London-bomb-threat-man-wearing-gas-canister-storms-offices-takes-hostages.html
<DJones> Same building as the Huffington Post apparaently
<mattt> DJones: woah!
<mattt> nothing on bbc news
<DJones> Just come up as a headline on BBC http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-17869815
<MartijnVdS> DJones: "wut"
 * bigcalm returns from lunch
<directhex> okay, precise.
<directhex> it seems to boot. success!
<brobostigon> \o/
<directhex> gnome do's shortcut vanished. odd. restored it.
<Laney> gnome don't
<Darael> I changed to Synapse for one release, and then the Dash pretty much did everything I needed either of them for.
<Darael> I still use Synapse preferentially to Everything when I periodically try e again to see if it's reached a balance point between awesome and stable yet.
<ali1234> DJones: maybe he upgraded his ubuntu lts
<directhex> U1MS is missing for me.,
<popey> in banshee?
<directhex> huh, wasn't installed on upgrade. odd
<directhex> un  rhythmbox-ubun <none>         (no description available)
<popey> directhex: sudo apt-get install ubuntu-desktop^
<popey> does that pull it in?
<directhex> ubuntu-desktop is already installed.
<popey> not the package
<popey> the task
<popey> hence ^
<bigcalm> popey: has there ever been a time when you've said the above and somebody didn't include the ^?
<bigcalm> I mean, "did" include the ^
<popey> âº
<bigcalm> Anybody here had to do regex against credit card numbers, is this good enough to follow? http://www.regular-expressions.info/creditcard.html
<dwatkins> do you need to check they're just valid CC numbers, bigcalm, or check which company they're from as well?
<bigcalm> dwatkins: I'm going to pass the data on to a payment gateway, so being able to do as many checks my end 1st would be helpful
<bigcalm> How advanced do people normally make it?
<DJones> TheOpenSourcerer: AlanBell: http://www.techweekeurope.co.uk/news/government-open-consultation-extended-75348
<BigRedS> bigcalm: depends on the API, really
<bigcalm> BigRedS: paypoint.net and I'm going to be using SOAP :D
<BigRedS> The one I've just done checks for 16 digits and relies on the card processor's API for the rest
<BigRedS> it's too hard to check more than that for no real gain - people are used to the idea that you submit a card number, wait, and then get told whether it was wrong or not
<bigcalm> The card processor will give me response codes, just trying to validate server side as much as possible 1st
<bigcalm> It's all about customer service ;)
<bigcalm> BigRedS: btw, where did you get the idea that you needed to use eval() around an fopen()?
<BigRedS> perl
<BigRedS> in perl you test for the success of opening a file by wrapping it in an eval
<bigcalm> I don't recall having to do that in perl
<BigRedS> you don't *have* to, but it lets you avoid trying to write to the file if you couldn't open it
<dwatkins> bigcalm: this doesn't have a regexp, but if efficiency is an issue, you might just want to do a single operation to check the validity of the card: http://www.fivecentnickel.com/2010/03/01/how-do-you-know-if-a-credit-card-number-is-valid/
<bigcalm> open(FH, ">foobar.txt") or die $!;
<BigRedS> You'd do something like this:   eval{ open($fh, ">>", $self->logfile) or die $! };  unless($@){.... write & close ... }
<bigcalm> If it couldn't open the file, die would be triggered
<BigRedS> yeah
<BigRedS> at which point I want to just carry on
<bigcalm> Of course you don't have to use die(), could be any function
<BigRedS> yeah, but you want to detect the failure
<BigRedS> well, I do
<bigcalm> So set a variable and test for it on the next line
<bigcalm> dwatkins: ta
<mattt> perl?
<BigRedS> hm, check that $fh is a filehandle I suppose. I'm just used to eval() as a way of checking whether something worked
<mattt> oldschool :P
<BigRedS> mattt: yeah, welcome to 1997 :)
<mattt> i work with a guy who still writes everything in perl, whatever works :)
 * bigcalm slaps himself for getting side-tracked by perl and returns to his php
<DJones> s/php/minecraft/
 * mattt has yet to play minecraft :(
 * bigcalm tickles DJones 
 * DJones laughs
 * mattt looks suspiciously at bigcalm and DJones
<bigcalm> dwatkins: that is a much simpler method for validating a cc number. Will be used :)
<bigcalm> mattt: it's fun, try it!
<BigRedS> mattt: I work in a company like that :)
<bigcalm> Whatever works?
<BigRedS> nah, it's all Perl
<dwatkins> bigcalm: ace, I thought your first link looked a bit over complicated, but I guess if you want to know the type of card it's necessary
<mungojerry> mattt, never played minecraft, but probably would if i was fifteen and had endless summers of freedom
<mattt> mungojerry: hahaha
<mungojerry> now the only time i get freedom is on the bog
<mattt> that's my excuse too :P
<mattt> mungojerry: can't play there?
<mungojerry> i never bought the tablet edition when it was cheap
<mattt> aww
<mungojerry> still don't have google wallet
<bigcalm> Who's half-inched my drugs?
 * dwatkins sneezes
<dwatkins> not me, bigcalm - although I appear to be getting hayfever early this year
<mungojerry> me too
<mungojerry> and i've lost my nose torch
<dwatkins> It's probably because the weather's been so nice recently, even in Scotland
<dwatkins> a nose torch, you say
<bigcalm> Ah, the pain killers were in another draw
<dwatkins> Is this some new attachment for a headlamp?
<bigcalm> dwatkins: thankfully my hayfever has been quiet so far this yet. I think it might be due to the rain we've been having
<dwatkins> bigcalm: you must be in England ;)
<bigcalm> dwatkins: hehe, good guess ;)
<mungojerry> red light therapy to disable the bits in the nose that react to pollen
<dwatkins> It's like the world is turned upside down
<dwatkins> Scotland's had great weather the past month or so
<dwatkins> mungojerry: aha interesting
<mungojerry> worth getting dwatkins when lloyds chemist does them for a tenner occasionally
<dwatkins> I shall look into this, thanks mungojerry
<bigcalm> I quite like the rain, working from home means not having to go out in it at all
<dwatkins> anyway, I was e-mailing someone important, back later :)
<mungojerry> dwatkins, it means less use of beconase,
 * dwatkins nods
<mungojerry> but i continue to take the loratadine pills and homeopathic cpills for conjucitvitis
 * bigcalm buries himself in work before saying anything he'll regret
<mungojerry> you can say it, but you'll be wrong ;)
 * mungojerry smiles sweetly
<mattt> anyone use one of these creation credit cards (creation.co.uk) ?
<dwatkins> mungojerry: hayfever can spontaneously stop, which is what I believe happened to someone I knew who had homeopathy for his hayfever
<mungojerry> i would love that. i get massive eye issues, allergic conjuctivitus
<mungojerry> as allergies start suddenly, i would hope that they stop suddenly too :D
<mungojerry> it's been years since i could eat chilli now
<Darael> I wish mine would.  If the trend of things stopping working continues, I'll have to give in and let the doctor prescribe those steroids, and I'll *still* end up in mungojerry's boat.
 * mungojerry wonders what his boat is and where it's going
<mungojerry> women and children first!
<Darael> mungojerry: I was referring to "I get massive eye issues, allergic conjunctivitis".
<dwatkins> bigcalm: haha, here are some numbers to test with http://www.paypalobjects.com/en_US/vhelp/paypalmanager_help/credit_card_numbers.htm
<bigcalm> dwatkins: that's a better list than the 3 that PayPoint.net offer for testing
<bigcalm> Ta
<dwatkins> welcome, bigcalm
<dwatkins> http://www.thetaoofmakingmoney.com/2007/04/12/324.html looks like a fun way to spend a rainy afternoon, too bigcalm
 * dwatkins wonders why some credit cards have a different number of digits
 * mungojerry wonders how poo got smeared on the outside of the toilet in trap 1
<dwatkins> I've heard worse, mungojerry
<gordonjcp> dwatkins: some debit cards are 19-digit
 * dwatkins shudders
<mungojerry> u1 has just let me down before going into a meeting
<dwatkins> google drive is now active, so we have another backup^Wcloud storage system...
<dwatkins> wow, people don't want to see the Avengers movie
<DJones> I wonder whether google search includes any files in your google drive in search results for the public?
<davmor2> mungojerry: how so?
<dwatkins> I get results for G+ in my search results
<davmor2> mungojerry: shockingly it's really slow currently might have something to do with a release
<Laney> I thought it was backed by S3
<DJones> dwatkins: I've just got a vision of somebodys accounts data backed up in google drive appearing in peoples search results :)
<bigcalm> dwatkins: an interesting document
<bigcalm> dwatkins: think it would be foolish to use a symfony validator already written by somebody? https://gist.github.com/181049
<dwatkins> bigcalm: I'd be wary of anything like that I hadn't checked line-by-line, as I imagine you would be too
<dwatkins> assuming it implements the same theory as your original link, it should be ok
<bigcalm> I know and understand each aspect of the validator, it's the set of regex I'm wondering about
<dwatkins> isn't there a regexp checker somewhere?
<SuperEngineer> Can't wait till 12.04 gets released!  After all, it's "NOT LONG NOW!"
<popey> welcome to 26 hours ago
<davmor2> I'm amazed at how much spam I get,  I never realised till today, I got my server installed nice and fresh yesterday and then it took most of the morning to get the filtering packages downloaded :D
<SuperEngineer> welcome to the channel topic ;)
<Laney> 6 months isn't long
<SuperEngineer> ;)
<SuperEngineer> [if we drop enough hints - it might get changed perhaps?]
<Darael> Why bother?  It's perpetually NOT LONG NOW! until /something/ interesting.
<SuperEngineer> ...I've got it sussed... LTS = long time seeing [out of date topic]
<Darael> Yesterday's suggestions included the start of work on Quantal (but the repo's there already, so that's expired), UDS, followed by the Diamond Jubilee...
<SuperEngineer> this morning's suggestions included the most probale I think... the Jubilee or the Olympics ;)
<SuperEngineer> *probable
<Laney> how about
<Laney> NOT LONG NOW until someone complains about the topic saying NOT LONG NOW
<Darael> "probale, adj: supporting use of hay to remove water from the vehicle"
<SuperEngineer> It *is* however what I kept on repeating to myself this morning upgrading 11.10 to 12..04 on netbook
<SuperEngineer> oh... the complaining about the topic event has long gone/!
<Darael> SuperEngineer: Upgrading to "12 11 10 09 (...) 04"?
<Darael> I'm sorry, I'll stop now.  Or try to.
<SuperEngineer> [therefore I'm sticking with the ;)
<SuperEngineer> & to add insult to non-injury I'm now kicking off Xubuntu on same netbook
<SuperEngineer> ...not long now
 * SuperEngineer regrets not taking popey's advice on various feeds re setting uodate server to fastest before starting upgrade
<SuperEngineer> as in...
<SuperEngineer> Seems some people aren't aware of this dialog in #ubuntu to select the best/fastest mirror. Useful today :) http://twitter.com/popey/status/195825967011348480/photo/1
<SuperEngineer> oh goody... only "9 hours remaining"
<bigcalm> This test is taking its sweet time :)
<SuperEngineer> bigcalm: don't worry - "NOT LONG NOW"
<bigcalm> I'm guessing that it's stalling on some servers
<bigcalm> And there are a lot of mirrors to get though
<bigcalm> This is me checking from 11.10
 * SuperEngineer thinks "stunt Alan" is teasing.. & refusing to change the topic until he's down't pub later on?
* AlanBell changed the topic of #ubuntu-uk to: Welcome to #ubuntu-uk! http://ubuntu-uk.org | This channel is publicly archived http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Mailing List http://tinyurl.com/uukml | Support Guidelines http://tinyurl.com/uuksupport | Meeting TBA #ubuntu-uk-meeting | it is out!!
 * SuperEngineer LMFAO
<bigcalm> I get the feeling that it's stalled
<andylockran> :)
<dogmatic69> I have skype installed on 12.04 and it does not seem to work with unity. when you minimise the window or close it sky is still running but the icon on the bar tries to open a new instance
<dogmatic69> how can I get to it? alt-tab does not show it in the options either
<popey> yeah, I have had that before
<popey> bug 931177
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 931177 in unity (Ubuntu) "cannot alt-tab to skype" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/931177
 * daubers does the happy dance
<sagaci> bug 1000000
<lubotu3> Error: Launchpad bug 1000000 could not be found
<sagaci> ah, not there just yet
<SuperEngineer> bug -1
<SuperEngineer> he he
<AlanBell> don't do that, you will break the internet
<SuperEngineer> ;)
<daubers> bug 0+1
<lubotu3> Error: Launchpad bug 0 could not be found
<daubers> awh, not that clever
<bigcalm> It's not going to eval the input. Danger lies that way
<bigcalm> On a server, is it possible to change the mirror used without having to edit every row in /etc/apt/sources.list?
<sagaci> what's wrong with editing every row
<bigcalm> I'm lazy
<sagaci> use replace in gedit
<bigcalm> And I wanted to know if there was sensible way of doing it
<bigcalm> sagaci: note the word "server" in my question :)
<sagaci> sorry, yeah
<sagaci> I can pastebin it
<bigcalm> No need
<bigcalm> I'll use search/replace in nano
<sagaci> or just cut paste
<Darael> bigcalm: sed?
<bigcalm> Darael: already done
<sagaci> that took ages :P
 * bigcalm shakes his head
<Darael> I don't know, I look away for a few minutes and I get back too late to make a potentially-uselful suggestion.
<bigcalm> Darael: sed is good, except I don't know any to be of use :)
<SuperEngineer> as Mork said - nano nano [or was that nanoo nanoo] ;)
 * SuperEngineer wonders: instead of upgrade estimating remaining time on a netbook,; wouldn't it it better saying - About "enough time to get married, divorced, buried & reincarnated" remaining
<MartijnVdS> â« Use a mirror, use a mirror
<Darael> SuperEngineer: It's not allowed to admit that.
<SuperEngineer> ;)
<SuperEngineer> Darael: see my previous about regretting forgetting to take earlier advice - doh!
<Darael> I'd quite like it if it could display sufficiently far-off ETAs as "Far Too Long remaining".
<SuperEngineer> [or it could say -"Do you have Time Lord capabilties perhaps?"]
<Darael> There could be a configuration option somewhere to enable it for those who didn't mind the loss of precision, and have a whole series of strings, like "Just a minute more", and "No, really, less than a minute remaining, I promise", and "You'll be wanting a TARDIS".
<Darael> "Go and get a $BEVERAGE".  "Probably never going to finish".  "Your guess is as good as mine".
<SuperEngineer> Darael: like all 3 of the above
<Darael> The concept reminds me of sudo insults.
<SuperEngineer> isn't there somthing [still] in bsd games like that?
<Darael> Quite possibly.  Sudo's insults is one of the ones that I found more amusing, but there's things in that spirit in all sorts of stuff.
<christel> i reckon it is the weekend
<christel> so i shall go locate a number of alans for heavy ale consumption
<gordonjcp> yay
<gordonjcp> christel: how are you off for transport?
<gordonjcp> Paisley Beer Festival is on
<gordonjcp> hm
<gordonjcp> depressingly enough, the "1 day remaining" from earlier was only about 50% out
<gordonjcp> from about 10pm last night, that's the upgrade to Precise complete; downloading took an hour of that!
<christel> are you inviting me to the paisley beer festival? :)
<gordonjcp> well if you like ;-)
<davmor2> http://vimeo.com/32178892 enjoy :)
<ali1234> how about this for an idea: we have ubuntu-bug that makes it much easier to report bugs. how about ubuntu-question to do the same thing for answers.launchpad.net?
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: Like "Help -> Get help online"
<ali1234> yes, but from command line for any package, and automatically adding useful stuff like which version etc that appport does :)
<ali1234> (maybe it already exists?)
<kvarley1> issyl0: Spotted you on the BBC site - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-17857189 =D
<MartijnVdS> ubuntu-bug + make question from bug :)
<ali1234> MartijnVdS: yes, that's what just happened to a bug i reported
<ali1234> and it made me think, perhaps i am too quick to hit ubuntu-bug
<ali1234> but it is just so easy compared to other routes
<ali1234> well, it's the first one out of 100 or so bug reports
<dogmatic69> is 'spotlight' the correct name for the search thing in 12.04?
<MartijnVdS> no
<MartijnVdS> that's what Apple calls it :)
<MartijnVdS> let me find the annotated picture :)
<MartijnVdS> or.. press a "Windows" key for a while
<dogmatic69> do you know what its called? hud or somthing?
<MartijnVdS> the menu-search thing is the hud
<dogmatic69> ye, thanks
<MartijnVdS> the app-search thing is .. I think the dash?
<Darael> That's right.
<MartijnVdS> but then what's alt+f2 called? because that's like the dash but not quite
<MartijnVdS> and the bar on the left?
<dogmatic69> and what about the actual bar of icons? unity bar?
<gord> launcher
<dogmatic69> ta
<MartijnVdS> http://askubuntu.com/a/62842
<dogmatic69> could anyone try this out? bug 989911
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 989911 in unity (Ubuntu) "alt tab in vm messes with HUD" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/989911
<MartijnVdS> I've disabled HUD
<MartijnVdS> because it messes with my head
<dogmatic69> either VM / remote desktop required
<ali1234> can i make it so that when i click the bfb, it just shows the alt-f2 thing, rather than any of the lenses?
<StevenR> hrrm. How large is an ubuntu mirror?
<daftykins> whoa
<daftykins> 60KB/sec off gb.archive.ubuntu.com
<daftykins> something big going on or? :)
<daftykins> ah yes new release time
<daftykins> mirror humping++
<kvarley1> daftykins: I got a whole 4kb/s last night xD
<daftykins> rawr \o/
<daftykins> you greedy blighter
<daftykins> ;)
<kvarley1> xD
<daftykins> well i'm sure my 10.04.4 kernel update can wait
<zleap> hello
<daftykins> GREETINGS
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> ok lucky i saw which channel it really was after that
<daftykins> *whistle*
<davmor2> Moo!
<daftykins> are you certain?
<Darael> "-!- Irssi: Join to #ubuntu-uk was synced in 666 secs" - it really is demonically laggy.
<daftykins> D:
<robjohnc> gah, an error in my smb.conf halted my 11.10-12.04 upgrade :(
<zleap> so how did the launch event go ?
<alexcockell> Azelphur - go for caramel and fudge... a little more malleable...
<alexcockell> Hi all...
<alexcockell> Another Friday night - fuck going out - BBC4 calls again...
<daftykins> try to keep it family friendly :)
<alexcockell> Sorry...
<alexcockell> STUFF going out then..
<Darael> I was going to claim "It's one in the morning, if not being family friendly is a problem now something's wrong" and then I remembered timezones.
<Azelphur> alexcockell: are you answering a question I asked more than a week ago? XD
<daftykins> Azelphur: don't be so ungrateful ;)
<Azelphur> haha
<Darael> Azelphur: Sounds like a perfectly reasonable thing to do to me.
<alexcockell> Sorry - just saw it come up when I started XCHAT
<DJones> Heh, disable show previous scrollback on start
<zleap> there seems to be a bug with one of the count down it currently shows coming soon for 12.04
<DJones> zleap: Link?
<daftykins> people, how do you work out why packages "aren't going to be installed" with APT at CLI?
<zleap> drupal.zleap.net i put it on my website
<DJones> Normally it says Ubuntu 12.04 is her or something like that after release, does sound a bit like a bug, not sure who you'd report that to though
<DJones> here
<zleap> i woulkd have guessed others would have noticed the same, and reported it as a bug
<Darael> daftykins: I /used/ to do that with aptitude why-not, but on amd64 that causes trouble unless one has disabled multiarch.
<MartijnVdS> and you don't want that
<daftykins> Darael: hmm interesting, thanks, i told the guy to run "sudo apt-get -f install" then "dist-upgrade" in the end
<Darael> Well, it doesn't cause trouble, it just fails to resolve in any sane manner.
<MartijnVdS> </snap - the power>
<daftykins> i got drawn into a PM from #ubuntu :(
<DJones> daftykins: This is why there is !pm
<daftykins> yeah
<daftykins> i didn't hugely mind though
<alexcockell> I think I'll wait until 12.04.1 comes out - I did the same with Hardy to Lucid.
<Nafallo> popey: are you drinking beer?
<Nafallo> oh. the release was yesterday... nvm
<alexcockell> Some of you getting hammered ready to handle all the support requests?
<Nafallo> alexcockell: no.
<Nafallo> alexcockell: wrong reason.
<alexcockell> Ahhh - what's the beer buzz for, just curious...?
<Nafallo> alexcockell: release parties. but I was a day late :-)
<alexcockell> Ahhh...
<alexcockell> Release pissup... figures...
<alexcockell> Just before the repos keel over as everyone jumps on them.
<Nafallo> new job release week = you miss things ;-)
<Nafallo> ehrm. did they?
<Nafallo> I thought they would have fixed that issue by now.
<directhex> main repo was pretty much unusable yesterday
<Nafallo> wow
<Nafallo> that's... interesting.
<Nafallo> considering I knew what backends we put into the mix last release :-P
<daftykins> Nafallo: huh?
<Nafallo> daftykins: I used to be Canonicals hardware guy :-)
<daftykins> :O
<daftykins> was it fun?
<directhex> Nafallo: in the end i had to abort a netinstall on the 4th try due to the main mirror timing out. had to find a spare burner in the office & resort to optical media, like some kind of feral beast
<daftykins> directhex: say it's not so!
<Nafallo> directhex: dude... mirror.sov.uk.goscomb.net? :-)
<Nafallo> daftykins: potentially
<directhex> Nafallo: you left canonical?
<Nafallo> directhex: aye
<daftykins> Nafallo: is there any chance you can tell me whether a given subdomain is really hosted anywhere different to another? namely gb.archive.ubuntu.com and gg.archi...
<daftykins> as i have a feeling the latter may not truly be in Guernsey
<Nafallo> daftykins: I haven't got access to the nameservers anymore, no ;-)
<daftykins> aww ok
<Nafallo> daftykins: that said... gg.a.u.c points at a.u.c :-P
<jpds> daftykins: When is gg Germany?
<Nafallo> jpds: dude... are you grunk? :-)
<daftykins> jpds: .gg is Guernsey, Channel Islands
<daftykins> i know we're small but whoa ;)
<daftykins> Nafallo: ah i should've known Â¬_Â¬ also i should've looked it up :>
<Nafallo> jpds: also... what the fuck is kraken and unktehi? SLs? :-)
<Nafallo> alsowtf... Kraken!?
<Nafallo> I know the last naming scheme... but srsly?
<Nafallo> VETOED!
<Nafallo> it has other meanings internally :-P
<Nafallo> jpds: still awake? or too much german liqour? :-P
<Nafallo> jpds: ION; what are you doing when I'm sober again? still in country?
<ali1234> quantal quetzal sounds like quetzalcoatl backwards
<daftykins> studying Aztecs?
<ali1234> no i just saw a b movie about him/her/it once
<directhex> moo.
<ali1234> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Q_%28film%29
 * Laney detects beef
<Darael> directhex: There are no easter eggs in this program.
<daftykins> however the creme egg is over there
<alexcockell> Sorry if I'm quiet - watching a load of programmes on burt Bacharach on BBC4 right now...
<daftykins> i've eaten half a strawberry cheescake from Tesco to myself otnight apparently that's 159% of my GDA of fat
<daftykins> and 99% of it that is saturated, or the other way around D:
<daftykins> fun times!
 * hamitron makes daftykins jump through hoops to work off some of that fat
<daftykins> D:
<daftykins> don't make me jump, i am full of cheesecake </Simpsons fat German kid>
<popey> moo
<Darael> There really are no Easter Eggs in this program.
<daftykins> think Â£40 is good enough to give in a wedding card?
<daftykins> got invited to the reception of the landlord+lady couple that run my local :O
<hamitron> I'd hope so
<hamitron> I'd put Â£10 in
<daftykins> heh
<hamitron> ;)
<daftykins> really? :)
<hamitron> yeh
<daftykins> hrmm
<hamitron> that or they get a pack of dish clothes
<daftykins> well there'll be a free buffet at said reception
<daftykins> but hrmm
<hamitron> I must admit, I have a wedding to go to soon
<hamitron> and am fully aware it costs them Â£45 per head, for the sit down meal
<hamitron> :/
<daftykins> D:
<hamitron> but it seems like an awful lot of expense
<daftykins> well
<hamitron> sort of feel guilty, not giving more.... but it is their choice
<daftykins> i've been asked to be my brothers best man
<daftykins> do not want :(
<hamitron> :/
<daftykins> heh i feel too generous now
<daftykins> but also don't wanna be stingy XD
<daftykins> i spent an amazing ~29p on the card :D
<hamitron> stingy is good imo
<daftykins> hahaha
<hamitron> it shows people you aren't rolling in money, so don't rip them off
<hamitron> ;)
<AlanBell> popey: moo
#ubuntu-uk 2012-04-28
<nperry> hai o/
<dwatkins> moin moin
<AlanBell> morning all
<SuperEngineer> whoopee - that's both netbooks now updated to 12.04 [1 with both Ubuntu *and* Xubuntu] me chuffed
<SuperEngineer> well done folks on the "upgrdateablility"
<SuperEngineer> [my word for update/upgrade]
<AlanBell> popey: morning
<TheOpenSourcerer> Morning everyone.
 * TheOpenSourcerer is doing his expenses...
 * nperry submits all my bills to TheOpenSourcerer 
<popey> morning chaps
<TheOpenSourcerer> yo popey
<TheOpenSourcerer> Get home OK
<TheOpenSourcerer> ?
<popey> yeah
<popey> walked from ash vale station to my house
<TheOpenSourcerer> Did Dave enjoy the evening?
<popey> yes, he did
<TheOpenSourcerer> Great.
<popey> thanks âº
<TheOpenSourcerer> NP
<TheOpenSourcerer> Whatever happened to christel ?
<TheOpenSourcerer> If anyone is bored, this is just amazing: http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10150520871048367&set=a.174547263366.126402.159936428366&type=1&theater
<czajkowski> have just made yummy french toast and grilled some bacon
<czajkowski> good start to the day
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<antiquecode> Upgraded the laptop to 12.04 without many issues
<antiquecode> I did get one crash, but I think that's hardware related.  Sometimes the CPU overheats.
 * StevenR waits impatiently for the mythbox to finish upgrading
<StevenR> there's just no progress bar. I can see apt doing stuff, but the cli release upgrady thing has no progress bar
<StevenR> yum is so much better in that respect (count of items to go)
<StevenR> the download bit has a progress and such, but once the actual upgrade starts? no idea how far
<zleap> yeah,  i remember using yum based distribution briefly
<StevenR> that's actually the only thing I've found with apt that has made me sad so far. (I actually botched an ubuntu upgrade once because the machine crashed, and apt was able to put everything back together)
<zleap> thats good
<StevenR> that was maverick -> oneiric I think.
<zleap> i think its very rare you should need to do a re-install of ubuntu or any linux based system as a good OS should not break to the point of needing it
<StevenR> left this laptop on overnight and came back in the morning to "OK. I'm done. Reboot me and see if Precise works"
<StevenR> and apart from the icons all changing (quickly rectified using xfce control center), everything still works. Firefox session came back with all my windows and tabs. everything.
<penguin42> hmm, I think the entire planet is downloading from gb.archive
<Nafallo> that box can't deal with the entire planet.
<penguin42> I suspect it's the network rather than the box - are there any bandwidth graphs public?
<Nafallo> not for that box, no.
<Nafallo> I suspect it's the box rather than the network though.
<Nafallo> it's the first day of the weekend after release.
<penguin42> nod
<Nafallo> it's quite likely you're not the only one trying to get to it ;-)
<penguin42> as I said, the entire planet
<Nafallo> that's waaay more people than you actually mean.
<Myrtti> pah. installing Debian on the Viglen MPC-L was disappointingly easy in comparison to installing Lucid two years ago
<Nafallo> go use a different mirror or something ;-)
<Myrtti> no challenge at all.
<penguin42> Nafallo: No, I've seen what happens when the entire planet tries to get to a site
<Myrtti> didn't need chrooting or anything
<Nafallo> well, in this case the box can handle a few thousand requests. not trillions :-P
<StevenR> hrrm. my lucid VM doesn't see the new release :S
<Myrtti> StevenR: do-release-upgrade sees the .1 release
<StevenR> ahh
<penguin42> Nafallo: How much of it does it manage to service from RAM?
<StevenR> fair enough. Thanks (it's up to date security wise anyway) :)
<Nafallo> penguin42: not the entire dataset
<penguin42> Nafallo: Yeh, as soon as you start seeking on disk you've lost I guess
<Nafallo> partly, but I guess most of the frequent files would get cached.
<Nafallo> I can't remember the specs of that box.
<Nafallo> but! that mirror usually flatlines before it goes insanely busy.
<nperry> even archive.ubuntu.com is slowly grinding to a halt.
<penguin42> it would be kind of interesting to see vmstat/sar graphs off a box like that
<Nafallo> penguin42: for the bigger ones, when they flatline... they do ~1 loadavg.
<penguin42> Nafallo: Right, but load is a very coarse measure; things like %sys/user/wait and interrupt rates are more interesting to see what the actual limit is
<Nafallo> *shrugs*
<Nafallo> they handle their links without breaking a sweat...
 * StevenR leaves the precise b2 VM alone to upgrade itself
<Wobbo> LibreOffice 3.5 has a problem. Since Ubuntu 12.04 I can't open my documents anymore. I have  tried and checked my documents (.odt) on a USB (fat). A Ubuntu 11.04 (64bit) LibreOffice 3.3 and Ubuntu 11.10 (64bit) LibreOffice 3.4 have had no problems. What to do? I need to work further with my thesis essay...
<Wobbo> I have also tryde to open the same document on another Ubuntu 12.04 (Virtual) but stil can't open all documents (the are alle above 3MB) on LibreOffice 3.5.
<penguin42> Wobbo: What happens when you try and open them?
<Wobbo> penguin42: Pop-up
<penguin42> and what does the popup say?
<Wobbo> lol
<Wobbo> translating text to UK
<Wobbo> Ok: Problem in reading. Error reading file.
<penguin42> hmm, that's not very detailed is it - hmm
<Wobbo> Nope...
<penguin42> Wobbo: I wonder if the problem is libreoffice or the problem is reading your USB thumb; what happens if you copy the file from your thumb drive to your home directory?
<Wobbo> Same problems, even other documents for example things from http://one.ubuntu.com/ has the same problems.
<penguin42> hmm
<penguin42> Wobbo: If you try opening it from a command line by doing something like      soffice filename     what diagnostics do you get?
<Wobbo> Starting it on my Terminal, it won't give anything extra...
<penguin42> Wobbo: What version of libreoffice-core package do you have?
<penguin42> Wobbo: It's just I notice there is a libre-office package set in the precise-proposed repo, which suggests there is a fix just around the corner (It's downloading for me at the moment, but being held up by the servers being slow)
<Wobbo> Ok.
<Wobbo> At the momend I have âlibreoffice-core 1:3.5.2-2ubuntu1â
<Guest64555> hello Iá¸¿  Paul and this is my first time using IRC.   I have been using Ubuntu , Natty, Lucid and 11.10 for
<Guest64555> hello
<popey> HI
<Guest64555> trying to get he hang of IRC
<Laney> hi there
<Laney> bye :(
<penguin42> Guest64555: Hi, so choose a nickname!
<penguin42> Wobbo: OK there is a ...ubuntu3 version in the proposed repo, it's just installing for me at the moment, I'll see if it says what it's supposed to fix
<Guest64555> hi can anyone help with wireless problems ?
<Guest64555> iá¸¿ using adell vostro1520 notebook.  Its dualbooted with vista and ubuntu 11.10
<Guest64555> i can connect wireless on vista but no luck wih ubuntu
<Searcher> i can connect wired but not wirelessly
<Wobbo> penguin42: I am pre-updating.
<Searcher> I hae a Broasdcom STA proprietary driver installed and activated but i cant connect wirelessly
<Searcher> SOS                                                                                           SOS                                                           SOS                                                                             SOS                                                                                                              SOS
<marxjohnson> Due to some unfortunate partitioning choices I made a few years ago, I need to copy my home and root partitions to a server with all permissions intact, and copy them back after repartitioning. I'm trying to do so with rsync, but most of the folders seem to end up being owned by root instead of (insert User ID here) i'm using the options -avXAH, should I be adding another flag?
<penguin42> Wobbo: Can you check that you have the libreoffice-base package installed
<oimon> why does the language packs part of the 12.04 install take so long?
<Searcher> > Wobo , I have it installed
<oimon> anyone had issues preserving their /home partition on 12.04 upgrade? it wanted to force me to choose encrypted home even though i wasn't formatting /home
<Wobbo> penguin42: Only libreoffice-base-core
<penguin42> Wobbo: My reading of the bug is that installing libreoffice-base might fix it
<Wobbo> penguin42: Thanks, the pre-update solved the problem!
<penguin42> good
<penguin42> Wobbo: Interesting thesis?
<Searcher> sorry guys got my wires crossed there
<Wobbo> Of course, i am making it! LoL
<Searcher> tryying to resolve a wireless issue with Broadcom driver.  i can connect wirellessly  on vista but not Ubuntu
<oimon> which card Searcher?
<Searcher> broadcom  sta thanks
<Wobbo> penguin42: I am almost finished in my last Year on Amsterdam University of Applied Sciences doing Communication and Multimedia Design.
<penguin42> Wobbo: Cool
<Wobbo> penguin42: Thanks for solving the LibreOffice error!
<penguin42> Wobbo: No problem
<Wobbo> Bye bye
<penguin42> hmph, wine seems to ignore the parallel option in DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS
<popey> jpds / Nafallo where does one file a bug against an ubuntu mirror?
<Nafallo> popey: what mirror, and what is the problem with it?
<penguin42> winehq suggests sudo apt-get build-dep wine1.4:i386  to get 386 build-deps, but that just complains for me that Unable to find a source package for wine1.4:386
<Nafallo> hmm. I should get a dock for my mobile so I can have it in the office proper.
<popey> Nafallo: http://mirror.sov.uk.goscomb.net/ubuntu/dists/
<popey> missing precise
<popey> but has quantal
<Nafallo> ah. goscomb...
<Nafallo> hrm
<Nafallo> popey: dang @ quakenet ;-)
<Nafallo> unless he's on facebook...
<Nafallo> he is
<Nafallo> popey: consider it reported :-)
<popey> ta
<Nafallo> popey: it's there, but forbidden.
<Nafallo> popey: try now
<popey> yay
<zleap> hi all
<Nafallo> popey: where can I buy a pack of sporks?
<Nafallo> popey: I'm bored of having to bring one fork and one spoon for all the things I eat :-P
<gord> sporks are a terrible invention, just wait till my new invention arrives, it will throw the entire spork industry on its head. "chop-sporks"
<penguin42> gord: Now, do you mean a combination chop-stick spork, or do you mean a combination knife-spork?
<Nafallo> gord: I don't want to wait...
<directhex> for our lives to be over
<directhex> i want to know right now
<directhex> what will it beeeeeeeeeee
<directhex> i don't want to wait
<directhex> for our lives to be over
<directhex> will it be yes or will it be.... sorryyyyyyyyyyyyy
<popey> oooookay
 * penguin42 notes the wikipedia page on spork is as normal amazingly detailed
<popey> unclyclopedia page on sporks is comprehensive
<Nafallo> popey: has any of the normal cutlery places got them?
<Nafallo> popey: asda? tesco? waitrose?
<penguin42> oh, I'd love to watch you go into Asda and ask a member of staff for a Spork
<SuperEngineer> I'm getting hungry!  heads for smoked mackeral, chips & peas; tails for liver, chips & peas?  Someone toss a vitual coin for me please.
<Nafallo> penguin42: ah. you have to ask for them?
<penguin42> Nafallo: Well, I doubt they have any, but I just want to see what their reaction is when they ask
<penguin42> Nafallo: I don't think Sporks are illicit (hey bud, got a spork?)
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: Liver
<popey> no idea Nafallo
<Nafallo> popey: wow. is this the first time I asked you something you didn't know about? I think it might be...
<popey> well
<popey> i would buy from amazon tbh âº
<Nafallo> oooh
<SuperEngineer> penguin42: liver it is then âº
<penguin42> there seem to be some fairly lame sporks that just have a spoon on one end and a fork on the other and real sporks that have combined things with one handle
<directhex> i need to clean out my chinchillas. i hate cleaning out my chinchillas.
<Nafallo> popey: thanks for the hint :-)
<brobostigon> what is the package name, for the gui to configure adobe flash that is in 12.04, i cant find it, on packages.ubuntu.com
<brobostigon> ?
<DJones> !flash
<lubotu3> To install Flash see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RestrictedFormats/Flash - See also  !Restricted and !Gnash
<brobostigon> i have that already, that is not the issue.
<brobostigon> that wasnt what i asked.
<DJones> brobostigon: That may help, suggests its part of ubuntu-restricted-extras on 32 bit and flashplugin-installer
<brobostigon> DJones: ah, i see.
<DJones> Does looking at those help finding the package though
<brobostigon> let me look.
<DJones> http://packages.ubuntu.com/search?keywords=flashplugin&searchon=names&suite=oneiric&section=all May help
<brobostigon> :)
<alebuntu> Hello worldbuntu. I am installing ubuntu 11.10 in a old machine. In the second screen of " Preparing to install ubuntu" the continue button is disabled. Is tha because of the machine?Thank you.
<brobostigon> DJones: i can find any speific package reference, it must be part of that package,
<brobostigon> cant*
<DJones> brobostigon: Right, not sure what the gui configiguration would be called though
<brobostigon> DJones: me neither, but it is there, i have seen it.
<It>  /server irc.swiftirc.net
<DJones> alebuntu: Are there any questions on the screen that need boxes to be ticked that haven't been?
<alebuntu> Hi. I am installing ubuntu 11.10 in a old machine. In the second screen of " Preparing to install ubuntu" the continue button is disabled. Does someone know this problem?
<alebuntu> No. i marked download updates while installing and use third packages for mp3.
<DJones> Is it this window http://s3.amazonaws.com/files.posterous.com/rgolwalkar/3jLlGFrBd6pGrXQ0PRkQTrulzeo76kFPV9GYJXeHysL6e9B1YyIoDOX9yGvX/1_Install.png.scaled.1000.jpg?AWSAccessKeyId=AKIAJFZAE65UYRT34AOQ&Expires=1335634029&Signature=Y24I7OMLCwOZbzrH3WbD2jSxfps%3D
<alebuntu> yes
<DJones> I'll see if I can find anything, does the machine have the 4.4GB available and is connected to the internet
<alebuntu> It is connected to the internet but it has windows installed in it. I want the install cd to format it and get the space needed while installing.
<alebuntu> the computer was too slow with windows because of viruses and i am trying to fiz the problem installin linux
<alebuntu> fix*
<DJones> What machine is it? The only similar thing I can see is for an Eee PC 701
<directhex> moo. /me moos
<alebuntu> its Lg machine with ASUS motherboard
<DJones> I'm afraid I'm at a loss, its not something I've come across before, but maybe somebody else is arund that can help
<alebuntu> roger that
<penguin42> alebuntu: How old is the machine?
<alebuntu> 5 years to more
<penguin42> what CPU and how much RAM?
<gpd> is it normal for 10.04 lts upgrade to have to go via all steps to get to 12.04 lts?
<penguin42> gpd: I think the upgrade will only present you with the full upgrade LTS-XLTS when it gets to 12.04.1
<penguin42> gpd: Lets it spot any nasties before the LTS people get pushed to upgrade
<gpd> penguin42: hmm - sounds familiar
<alebuntu> the computer has no indications outside it, but it is that model with the flatron ez t710sh monitor.
<gpd> oh well - this could take longer than i thought
<Nafallo> gpd: if your config is set to normal, then yes...
<DJones> gpd: As penguin42 said, thats how I understand it as well
<Nafallo> gpd: /etc/update-manager/release-upgrades
<gpd> Nafallo: crap - i even changed it to normal - as per the page i was reading
<penguin42> gpd: Anyway, it's not a bad idea to go one step at a time
<Nafallo> gpd: if you want to jump to 12.04 early, I suppose do-release-upgrade -d will do what you want.
<Nafallo> penguin42: if it's a live server it sounds like a massively bad idea to do 4 release upgrades instead of one...
<DJones> gpd: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PrecisePangolin/ReleaseNotes/UbuntuServer#From_10.04_to_12.04
<Nafallo> downtime is not awesome to have
<DJones> Although that is talking about the server edition
<alebuntu> ok but the machine is windows xp\
<Nafallo> that said. I've done four or five of 10.04 to 12.04 upgrades myself without much trouble.
<penguin42> Nafallo: True, I just reckon on each small step as being a little less dangerous than doing one big update, although any nasty bugs in the intermediate ones won't have been fixed
<Nafallo> penguin42: I would reckon it's more dangerous actually.
<Nafallo> *shrugs*
<penguin42> fair enough
<Nafallo> lots more moving parts
<Nafallo> four package upgrades instead of one...
<Nafallo> yeah, no. I wouldn't recommend that.
<Laney> you still need to do-release-upgrade -d until .1 comes out
<gpd> well i'm stuck in the middle now - 10.10 - so no longer a choice. :)
<Laney> there is no need to go via all intermediate releases ...
<DJones> gpd: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PrecisePangolin/ReleaseNotes/UbuntuDesktop#Upgrading_from_Ubuntu_10.04_LTS_to_Ubuntu_12.04_LTS Found that one
<Laney> yeah, that wiki page says it
<gpd> the added complication on one of my servers is that i need it to run MythTV - any idea if this is now stable on 12.04?
<gpd> [loaded question]
<penguin42> gpd: Not tried it, but I did read something about a version change requiring changing clients - can't remember where I saw that though
<gpd> seems to be 0.25 - which is the new stable version
<It> [NPO]It Hz
<directhex> gpd: no. what did you configure as your upgrade path in the software sources window? it has three options - don't show upgrades, show full, or show lts->lts
<[NPO]It> server irc/
<Laney> argh
<Laney> who invented floating eyes >:|
<penguin42> ?
<penguin42> wow, the package I uploaded to my ppa has already started building - I'd assumed the backlog on ppa's at this time in a release would have been weeks
<Nafallo> haha
<Nafallo> priorities probably
<Laney> nah it's quiet: https://launchpad.net/builders
<Nafallo> oh. the floodgates didn't open yet?
<Laney> release isn't open no, but that doesn't share the ppa builders anyway
<Nafallo> hrm
<penguin42> normally at release everyone goes and ppa's their favorite bug
<It> How do i change me name?
<brobostigon>  /nick newnick
<Laney> /nick myshinynewnamehere
<SuperEngineer> what are you all doing online!  Dr. Who - Stolen Planet on BBC3!
<brobostigon> SuperEngineer: i am watching that amazing ep, also, :)
<SuperEngineer> brobostigon: 10/10
<brobostigon> SuperEngineer: agreed.
<brobostigon> SuperEngineer: and rose, with a big gun,
<SuperEngineer> ;)
<andresmp> hello!
<SuperEngineer> ...to...be...continued... doh!
<penguin42> ppa. actually has some bandwidth :-)
<ed87654> hi
<ed87654> I have to laptops
<ed87654> one is xp, other lubuntu, both have wireless cards in them (d link g650)
<ed87654> lubuntu also has a 3g usb dongle connected
<ed87654> how do I configure lubuntu to allow my xp laptop to connect to lubuntu via wireless and use yhat
<ed87654> that 3g dongle internet connection?
<tombrough> you might want to read up on shorewall and install that.
<ed87654> ok thanks
<pawel_> zzz
<zleap> tombrough,
<popey> evening all
<gpd> many hours later -- still upgrading... looks totally broken:
<gpd> init: Failed to create pty - disabling logging for job
<zleap> evening
<bigcalm_laptop> Evening peeps :)
<popey> pip pip bigcalm_laptop
<bigcalm_laptop> Howdy mr popey
<bigcalm_laptop> What am I missing while visiting my parents?
<bigcalm_laptop> Haha
<bigcalm_laptop> I just got an email because you mentioned me while I am not connected to the irssi-proxy
<bigcalm_laptop> How cool is that?
<bigcalm_laptop> I see that my screen still does a double flash upon pressing print screen
<bigcalm_laptop> night peeps
<popey> 13
<popey> bah!
<Nafallo> popey: go.pl
<hamitron> na, 17
#ubuntu-uk 2012-04-29
<finsbury> yo
<finsbury> irc.helldive.org
<ball> Well that was odd.
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<penguin42> rather windy out there
<aCilnv> penguin - it's the wrong type of wind - same as wrong type of rain ..
<AlanBell> this is a very damp drought
<MartijnVdS> so.. 100 names for wind?
<AlanBell> it is so wet that czajkowski didn't want to bounce on my trampoline
<TheOpenSourcerer> morning people.
<MartijnVdS> \o
<aCilnv> Alan - i dont want to see what UK's like out of drought then ..
<aCilnv> morning TOS
<TheOpenSourcerer> I fell in love last night...
<TheOpenSourcerer> With a beer.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Darwin's Origin. http://www.salopianbrewery.co.uk/beers.php It's absolutely perfect.
<gordonjcp> you know there are twelve different words in Gaelic for rain
<gordonjcp> but the only repeatable one translates as "water"
<TheOpenSourcerer> In Greenland they have several dozen for snow.
<gordonjcp> one gaelic word for rain is so obscene it's only ever been written down once
<TheOpenSourcerer> It is fantastically wet here today.
<gordonjcp> nice and sunny here
<MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: "Belgium"
<gordonjcp> indeed
<nperry> ubuntu-uk.org down?
<AlanBell> so it would appear
<AlanBell> hmm, and popey is on a plane so probably didn't break it
<AlanBell> Daviey: o/
<nperry> I blame popey, even if he is on a plane.
<AlanBell> maybe Daviey is on a plane too
<gordonjcp> maybe it's *because* popey is on a plane
<AlanBell> yeah, lets go back to the default position and blame popey
<AlanBell> maybe he took the server with him
<gordonjcp> maybe ubuntu-uk.org is actually running on popey's laptop
<gordonjcp> exactly
<nperry> \o/
 * TheOpenSourcerer thinks he might update his main work desktop this afternoon. From 10.10 to 12.04. Will probably do a clean install...
 * brobostigon thinks he might delay visiting the pub, considering the weather.
 * TheOpenSourcerer will not be drinking anything alcoholic today. My Liver has taken a hammering for the last 3 days on the trot. Last night was a big night! :-D
<brobostigon> :) good idea.
 * brobostigon also doesnt want to get soaked.
<penguin42> brobostigon: You're assuming the weather is going to get better
<brobostigon> penguin42: maybe, and yes, it probebly wont get better. anytime soon.
<tymchn> morning, is the website for the podcast down at the moment?
<tymchn> morning, is the website for the podcast down at the moment?
<tymchn> oops sorry
<nperry> yes
<nperry> blame popey
<tymchn> hahahaha why, what did popey do?
<TheOpenSourcerer> What's the fastest way to backup my ~/ dir over a LAN?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Just want to make a copy before rebuilding
<brobostigon> rsync, i would guess.
<brobostigon> or scp.
<TheOpenSourcerer> scp (encryption overhead)
<brobostigon> cp ?
<penguin42> not a big problem these days unless your CPUs really suck
<TheOpenSourcerer> My server does - It's a VIAC700 downclocked ;-)
<brobostigon> can you use cp like you do scp ?
<TheOpenSourcerer> What about nc?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Anyone used that recently
<brobostigon> i am not familier with.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Think nc might be the way to go. http://blog.makezine.com/2008/11/14/linux-tip-superfast-network-fi/
<user_> hi
<user_> i'm having issues upgrading 10.04 to 12.04
<user_> it does not give me an option to upgrade in the update manager, even though I selected check for lts updates and rechecked for updates
<Darael> If it's refusing to acknowledge the existence of a release, then I had the same problem.  I cheated slightly.
<user_> how did you fix it?
<Darael> Try running "update-manager -d", which checks for a development release.  For some reason, Lucid seems to think Precise hasn't been released yet.
<user_> if I run that, will it keep updating it to the developer versions?
<user_> (every time a new version comes out?)
<Darael> Nope, just to Precise.
<user_> will it also subscribe to the edge developer packages?
<Darael> No; it just changes where it looks for a new release on that one invocation of the update manager.
<user_> okay, thanks a lot :)
<Darael> You can test my assertion if you like - run update-manager -d, close it, and run without the flag.  It won't show the new release as available the second time.
<user_> have a nice day
<Darael> (only a partial test, sure)
<Darael> You too.
<penguin42> I'm not sure why I'm getting adverts for BUPA maritime insurance
<DJones> penguin42: Have you looked out of the window today?
<penguin42> good point, a sale craft would work well to get to work
<penguin42> sail ?
<DJones> We've just got back from church, even the vicar commented that todays reading would be the story of Noah :)
<zleap> hello
<andresmp> hello!
<andresmp> Is totem reproducing youtube supposed to have worst resolution?
<andresmp> and my next question,
<andresmp> is there any reason, having all the 3rd party codecs installed, that some youtube videos cannot be reproduced in totem?
<dogmatic69> hmmm.. just logged onto my server and my screen session is gone :/
<dogmatic69> anyone know why / how?
<penguin42> you logged out of the last member of it? You rebooted the box while you were away?
<dogmatic69> uptime == 24days
<dogmatic69> had +-10 tabs open, just clicked X on the local terminal (screen was in remote server)
<Nafallo> dogmatic69: are you sure it's gone?
<dogmatic69> well I logged onto the server ran the cmd and blank. just one empty tab
<dogmatic69> Nafallo: ^
<Nafallo> dogmatic69: screen -list
<dogmatic69> Nafallo: only the one that I am currently in
<Nafallo> well, den it's gone :-)
<dogmatic69> strange
<dogmatic69> maybe it was an update or something
<zleap> how would i get something like ucubed unconference or something similar where Iam in Paignton or south devon ?
<nperry> zleap, its a bit off-topic. Try your local lug!
<nperry> shit, thought this was #ubuntu :/
<nperry> http://www.dcglug.org.uk/
<AlanBell> paignton lacks transport links
<daftykins> can't see much benefit to having their IRC chan on another server
<AlanBell> zleap: probably Bristol would be better as a place that is easy to get to
<zleap> ok
<zleap> we are on the main line down from bristol
<zleap> ucubed is ubuntu related isn'tit
<AlanBell> if you look at manchester and where it is in relation to liverpool, leeds, sheffield, birmingham etc you can see how it has a big catchment area
<zleap> ok good point
<zleap> just that we never get anything in Devon
<zleap> ok on a side(ish) note would canonical support any efforts of the dclug to do something like this
<AlanBell> probably not in any significant way
<zleap> ok
<AlanBell> you might get a conference pack of stuff, a few CDs a book and a couple of tshirts
<AlanBell> that won't really help you fill a venue
<zleap> ok
<zleap> will chat to the lug
<kvarley> I'm attempting to install amazonmp3 in Ubuntu Precise and it says dependency is not satisfiable "libboost-filesystem1.34.1". Should I install it from an older release?
<AlanBell> how much is a ticket from Paddington to Paignton and how long does it take?
<zleap> about 4 hours I think
<zleap> cheapest ticket is Â£81
<zleap> http://www.thetrainline.com/buytickets/combinedmatrix.aspx?Command=TimeTable
<zleap> for may 29th (random future date entered)
<zleap> AlanBell, i may send for some more 12.04 cd's from you at some point,  I have sent an sae for a few from the pre-order batch offer
<daftykins> kvarley: worth a try
<daftykins> do they offer flash drives yet?
<daftykins> of new releases
<zleap> i installed fuse  (spectrum emulator) the other day and tried to associate  sna and z80 files with fuse but in the open with box it can't even find fuse.
<daftykins> does it run as a terminal app?
<zleap> not sure
<zleap> i can run it from dash
<zleap> it can run from terminal yes (terminal window)
<daftykins> i'd have seen an issue trying to call it if it does only work within a terminal
<zleap> ok
<zleap> well its in my launcher sidebar
<zleap> I canload the emulator, i just wondered if I could click on a game and have that openwith fuse, in the same way a odt file opens with libreoffice
<daftykins> yeah
<daftykins> file association, that old chestnut
<zleap> yep
<zleap> there is a big list,  even a option to look on like if I tclick open with
<daftykins2> apparently my file server's host OS isn't quite stable right now :D
<daftykins2> Handbrake killed it \o/
<Azelphur> I just tried LMDE, wasn't too impressed :/
<daubers> Hey interwebs people.... does anyone know of an interwebs company that won't do a 12 month contract? I need a contract for 2 months until I can get FTTC
<AlanBell> who are you getting FTTC from?
<daubers> AlanBell: Probably BT
 * AlanBell has FTTC from plus.net
<AlanBell> they are quite good really, it is technically BT that fit it (the BT engineer fits the termination box)
<AlanBell> you can get ADSL from them and then upgrade to FTTC
<daubers> AlanBell: I know :) But it's a new FTTC area I'm moving into. BT are doing it from June 30th, so Plus won't fit it for another couple of months
<daubers> AlanBell: Hmmm..... have a feeling they might try and con me out of another fee for doing so
<AlanBell> give them a call and arrange it in advance
<daubers> Hmmm.. might try that tomorrow
<daubers> Need to call the car insurance people anyway
<AlanBell> you are more likely to be able to sort something out with them than with BT I expect
<daubers> Current contract is with plus net
<daubers> so shall lean on them a bit
 * daubers gets a new house on Friday *\o/*
<AlanBell> nice
<Myrtti> I have no idea what this whole conversation is about, but in Finland I used my mobile for Internet connection for three months while living at mums and finally waiting to have ADSL installed at my apartment once I moved some years ago. Nobody complained when I used the connection to download two OpenSuSE DVD's on it on the first month
<Myrtti> :-D
<daubers> Myrtti: That would probably cost Â£lots over here!
<Myrtti> I think I paid 15â¬ or something similar
<Myrtti> as my mobile phone company charges by speed, not quota
<daubers> Could turn the revo into a 3G router if the mobile signal is any good out there I suppose
<AlanBell> anyone got a raspberry pi yet?
<jacobw> by speed is cool way to charge :)
<Myrtti> jacobw: it makes more sense to me that charging by quota
<Myrtti> s/that/than/
<jacobw> quite
<jacobw> exceeding a quota does not cause conjestion _now_
<Myrtti> but since Finnish companies started selling iPhone the previously ubiquitous charge by speed policies have been revoked
<Myrtti> not all of them, mind
<bigcalm> Good evening peeps :)
<jacobw> good evening
<dogmatic69> sup bigcalm
<bigcalm> A weekend away from home. What have I missed?
<czajkowski> wonder did gord pack his tea bags
<dogmatic69> bigcalm: some rain...
<bigcalm> dogmatic69: no worries, I got that while visiting my parents
<dogmatic69> all good then :)
<daftykins> scratch that
<daftykins> it was an island wide power cut
<daftykins> :D
 * Myrtti is just about to publish the Debianizing of Viglen MPC-L blog entry
<brobostigon> that rocks Myrtti
<daftykins> :o
 * Myrtti prods ubuntuuk-planet 
<andypiper> hmm planet ubuntu uk seems dead
<zleap> yeah just got an e-mail saying that
<jacobw> ubuntu-uk.org is dead
<jacobw> as in, http
<andypiper> doh
<Myrtti> aww.
<Myrtti> in that case
<bigcalm> popey: fix things!
<Myrtti> http://myrtti.fi/blog/2012/04/30/viglen-mpc-l-from-xubuntu-10-04-lts-to-debian-stable/
<Myrtti> bigcalm: he's in a big flying metal tube
<Myrtti> or recovering from the experience
<bigcalm> Myrtti: that should not be an excuse in this day and age :D
<bigcalm> Myrtti: how many books are you being sent?
<Myrtti> bigcalm: asked fifteen just to be safe
<andypiper> Myrtti: wait - so i can't upgrade my MPC-L to 12.04?
<Myrtti> andypiper: nope
<bigcalm> Goodness
 * andypiper sobs quietly
<bigcalm> Myrtti: big reception?
<andypiper> but but but i got it as far as 11.10
<bigcalm> andypiper: surprised that you got it to 11.10
<andypiper> release upgrades were fine that far
<Myrtti> bigcalm: I might use them for invitations, for planting pots for guest favours, other stuff, and need material to experiment with too
<bigcalm> This weekend I replaced my parents' Viglen MPC-L with my old Revo
<bigcalm> Remote admin of their server is so much nicer now
<bigcalm> Myrtti: fair enough :)
<Myrtti> andypiper: mind you, the process of installing Debian on it was so easy I did cry a bit because it was so painful with Ubuntu
<andypiper> my home server is the MPC-L and the media PC for the TV is the Revo
<bigcalm> andypiper: give it a go :)
<andypiper> hmm ok - as i am reading
<jacobw> what is the mpc-l good for?
<bigcalm> jacobw: door stop
<bigcalm> jacobw: actually, no that as it's not very heavy
<bigcalm> Paper weight
<jacobw> is it good for media playback?
<bigcalm> I now have 2 Viglen MPC-L doing nothing
<andypiper> it's a basic webserver, weather station receiver, and power monitor (Current Cost USB-Serial) running mosquitto for me
<Myrtti> sell them on ebay, or let me sell them for you
<bigcalm> Hehe
<andypiper> heavy lifting done elsewhere on my network now
 * jacobw considers
<bigcalm> jacobw: they have no grunt at all
<jacobw> if it had an adsl card, it'll be awesome :)
<Myrtti> yeah I use mine as an irssi machine nowadays when I can't use my shared shell for that anymore
<bigcalm> jacobw: they have several USB ports and an rj45. There's still a lot that can be done with them
<andypiper> indeed
<Myrtti> iplayer cache
<Myrtti> that's what I use it for as well
<bigcalm> Myrtti: do the ebay fees make it worth while?
<Myrtti> bigcalm: I don't know, I don't use ebay
<jacobw> i'm moving to germany soon, i don't what physical layer the ISP will provide
<bigcalm> Oh, erm
<bigcalm> I thought you meant let you sell them for me on ebay
<Myrtti> but I know people are still interested in them since I mentioned I have one on my shell providers IRC channel
<bigcalm> Ah, I see :)
<jacobw> perhaps it'll be something i can connect a viglen-like machine to :)
<bigcalm> It might be ok as a thin client. But I think that would be pushing it as well
<jacobw> hmm
<Myrtti> actually I'm not sure if I should buy one and set it up at my sisters in Finland
<bigcalm> Myrtti: I was going to free cycle them. But if you think we'll make a bit of money, I'm in :)
<bigcalm> Maybe I should give one to the oggcamp raffle, as I did with the penguin
<Myrtti> maybe you should
<Myrtti> they're still neat little boxes
<bigcalm> Aye
 * bigcalm looks for a low level formatter
<bigcalm> Or zero fill
<bigcalm> DBAN looks good
<Myrtti> yet again fallen for the eternal problem of opening a new tab on the browser promptly forgetting what I was doing
<Myrtti> oh man.
<daftykins> Myrtti: we still need a word for that
<daftykins> society lacks a quick term
<daftykins> "damn it i <new word here>!"
<directhex> "brainfart"
<daftykins> mmm too all-encompassing
<Myrtti> tabnesia
<daftykins> that's good
<daftykins> but most of the time it happens to me when i get to search and forgot what i was gonna search for, or maybe open the browser in general
<Myrtti> http://twitter.com/myrtti/status/196734496803012608
<daftykins> soon it shall be in the lexicon
#ubuntu-uk 2013-04-22
<popey> Morning!
<SuperMatt> hey ho
<SuperMatt> final push this week
<SuperMatt> all the best guys and galas
<SuperMatt> *gals
<MooDoo_> hello all
<diplo> Morning all
<MooDoo> morning
<JamesTait> Good morning all, and happy International Mother Earth Day! :-D
<SuperMatt> Morning
<directhex> is there a day to celebrate the wearing of hats? some kind of international milliner appreciation day?
<DJones> directhex: 26th November http://www.internationalhatday.com/
<directhex> DJones++
<SuperMatt> dang, that only gives me 7 months to buy a jaunty hat
<SuperMatt> HOW WILL I COPE?
 * DJones has a fedora and a flat cap
<SuperMatt> I have a summer-time hat
<DJones> Just need some ferrets to go with the cap though
<SuperMatt> btu in general, I do not look good in hats :(
<JamesTait> directhex, even if there wasn't a day for it already, you could choose one and I bet you'd get a following on the intarwebz.
<DJones> I need a hat, with hair that makes me feel like a hippy when it gets to 5mm long, I need something to keep my head warm
<selinuxium> Morning all   o/
<JamesTait> I need a new South Africa hat. This one is faded. :-/
<selinuxium> I have many hats... A Sloane, 2 Bowlers, A flat cap, A Fedora,  A Tilley...
<DJones> JamesTait: Thats what Ubuntu needs, Ubuntu branded http://www.avalon-guns.com/avalon/18155L.jpg
<selinuxium> A Wide brimmed Pork Pie.
<DJones> Although maybe Australian Akubra felt material would be better
<SuperMatt> ah yes, now I remember how I'm going to recognise you people at the meet on thursday ;)
<SuperMatt> look for the hats
<DJones> Leather ones are too heavy to wear here
<JamesTait> DJones, that looks kind of Indiana Jonesish.
<JamesTait> DJones, maybe we could offer a package deal, Ubuntu branded hats with bullwhips.
<DJones> Yeah, Indiana Jones or Mick Dundee
<MooDoo> JamesTait: where there is ubuntu w sorted out, the whirling whip
<JamesTait> Yeehaw!
<DJones> JamesTait: Heh, bullwhip brings back memories of being in college, everybody had to give a 10 minute talk on something and one of adult students (was about 50ish) came in to do hers, was sat in the canteen and one fell out of her handbag onto the table, as you may expect, there were some interesting comments from fellow students
<JamesTait> :D
<directhex> a bullwhip isn't something you casually keep in your handbag
<DJones> Turned out her talk was about when she went on a western/cowboy themed ranch holiday
<directhex> and, frankly, i don't know who has a house big enough to have space for swinging a bullwhip in the bedroom
<DJones> She may have done, she did live in Wales
 * DJones waits for a sheep joke
<DJones> Are there likely to be new styles/colours of clothing for 13.04? Wondering whether to order one of these enF!~darren@nat/canonical/x-tllvxjtgejpextfz >  09:48 DJones (+i) 4:#ubuntu
<DJones> Gtt
<DJones> Grr
<DJones> http://shop.canonical.com/product_info.php?products_id=1014
<DJones> I like the design on this http://shop.canonical.com/product_info.php?products_id=1015
<JamesTait> DJones, I don' think the colours will be changing any time soon, no.
<DJones> And the Raring T-Shirt looks good
<JamesTait> Famous last words.
 * DJones add's raring T-Shirt and Orange cap to birthday list
<selinuxium> First time I met AlanBell, he was wearing a tux for the event.  :)
<mungbean> as you do.
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<MooDoo> morning
<AlanBell> so I was
<BigRedS> Whoop! I have a half-day on Friday
<BigRedS> it's the wrong half, but, still, better than nothing
<Whoop> BigRedS: lucky you...
 * Whoop isnt sure why he needs to know this, but congrats anyhow ;)
<bigcalm> BigRedS: long lie-in?
<BigRedS> nah, release parties seem to end at about 3am
<kvarley> OT: Does anybody know how I make a composite foreign key via PHPMyAdmin? I'm used to doing it via SQL but want to know how to do it via the webui
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<kvarley> brobostigon: \0
<brobostigon> morning kvarley
<kvarley> brobostigon: How goes it?
<MooDoo> morning morning
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo
<brobostigon> kvarley: better than the last few weeks, and you?
<hoover> morning all
<hoover> Hey biggie!
<brobostigon> morning hoover
<kvarley> brobostigon: Pretty good, knackered though - had a physical day yesterday. On with work today tho :) enjoying 13.04 on my desktop
<kvarley> \0 all
<brobostigon> kvarley: :)
<knightwise> 0/ !
<knightwise> Ehlo
<brobostigon> morning knightwise
<MooDoo> I went laser tagging yesterday, i'm getting to old for this ..... ;)
<knightwise> lol MooDoo :)
<knightwise> I just got my hands on a Lenovo X130 with an I3 processor, anyone have any experience with running Linux on a baby like this.
<diplo> Anyone know of any software wiki type a bit like http://www.howtoforge.com/ where I can create categorys on the left with drop downs etc without much coding
<diplo> Don't want to spend to much time on it, but want all my documents in a wiki style thing but with menus to each of the pages
<diplo> I could write something myself but rather not as there is probably something out there
<ali1234> wordpress?
<diplo> yeah, sort of but need to do a bit of coding to get it to work how i want it..
<ali1234> howtoforge is drupal
<diplo> ah, so it seems I'll probably have to
<BigRedS> diplo: or find a theme to do it
<ali1234> no, you don't need anything to do that in wordpress
<ali1234> in drupal you will need 100 modules because that's how drupal is
<ali1234> but wordpress has all that built in
<diplo> heh ali1234, I hadn't thought about themes
<ali1234> wordpress is also extremely easy to extend, unlike drupal
<diplo> Will take a look at that, I use wordpress but hadn't thought about using it as a wiki type thing
<ali1234> well, it has built in page editing, revisions and so on...
<diplo> My friends company uses a proprietary thing and really liked it
<BigRedS> yeah, I've seen massive drupal sites replaced with wordpress and a custom theme
<BigRedS> there's free themes that're quite close to most layouts you're likely to want
<diplo> Debated alfresco as well, but again a massive thing really
<diplo> Nobody documents at my place, I've written lots already but all in odt files and wanted to accumalate them in one place and easier to edit for anyone
<diplo> But I think wikis just wouldn't work for the majority of staff here
<jpds> diplo: MoinMoin ?
<diplo> heh have that tab open at the moment, only issue I'm finding is displaying the categories/articles
<jpds> diplo: Like this? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CategoryArchive
<jpds> I recall that MoinMoin has a page called 'SideBar' that themes can read.
<diplo> Sort of, but wanted it listed on the left at all times
<jpds> diplo: See: SideBar. ;-)
<diplo> So basically I want categories with Sysadmin then sub cats with Nagios/CentOs/Ubuntu/
<diplo> Looking at it now
<diplo> ta
<diplo> All the people at my place are developers, but on very old software.. that's all they know.. anything new confuses them, all quite old now with a dieing language :)
<BigRedS> yeah, our wiki here is basically a collection of about a billion pages, each completely unaware of any other
<jpds> diplo: http://moinmo.in/ThemeMarket/Mandarin
<jpds> diplo: "Change is the only constant". and so on.
<bigcalm> I do wish that wikis had automatic contents creation
<diplo> Taht's the sort of thing, I think I'm hoping for two much just to add to a category and it displays :)
<diplo> Will give a few a try and see how I get on, thanks guys
<BigRedS> ah, you want to create a load of empty categories?
<BigRedS> most things create them the first time something's put in them
<diplo> Well basically want, developing/sysadmin/other/other and then under each of those have specific areas for my notes
<diplo> But just want it to work rather than spend loads of time getting it to look like I want it :)
<BigRedS> but before you've put the notes in? Wordpress creates categories when you put a page in them, as does mediawiki for example
<diplo> Well more just displaying them, from what I'm reading I have to add the cats to the sidebar manually for moinmoin ( wordpress will do it i know )
<diplo> Think I need to play and see how I get on
<diplo> basically want it to look like the howtoforge site on the left, click a link on the left it displays content on the right.
<diplo> I'll tinker and see how i get on, thanks for the input peeps
<NET||abuse> hey doods.. made an amazing discovery
<NET||abuse> i was having huge speed problems with my network at home over the weekend, turns out changing from my netgear gs605 8 port witch to a cheep offbrand switch i got from maplins for my mother 2 years ago, sorted it all out.
<NET||abuse> but what was alarming is that i have a stock of 3 of the gs605 switches, and i cycled through each one and did scp and samba file copies to my nas to test them, turns out each and every one was degraded to the same level
<diplo> Firmware updated them ?
<NET||abuse> uppon further reading, i discovered a blog post by a fellow gs605/8 switch owner, he had read the the switches are suceptible to power surges, so he opened up the box and switched out the4  capacitors for better quality radioshack components,, that sorted it out.
<NET||abuse> So i'm remembering where my soldering iron is and ordering the components for a trial run on this and see if it restores them.
<NET||abuse> should be a fun experiment.
<NET||abuse> the 3 netggear switches i have were from an installation my cousin was involved in, they just removed them from an office as they were moving.. and they were free. so he just gave them to me.. i have a stack of about 12 negear switches/dsl wifi routers at home
<NET||abuse> so i've no fear of breaking one or two of them :0
<NET||abuse> here's the blog post.. http://tinajalabs.wordpress.com/2011/03/20/netgear-gs605-v2-fix/
<NET||abuse> and there's about 8 or so commentors on that post giving possitive feedback on their own attempts to do this.. it's awsome.. save some gear from being wasted in hte landfill
<NET||abuse> anyway, i thought it was a cool situation and wanted to share
<funkyHat> I nearly bought a gs608 (I think?). Glad I went for the el-cheapo option instead ;D
<NET||abuse> yup,
<NET||abuse> netgear are just letting themselves down it seems
<NET||abuse> but it's interesting to be able to fix em
<funkyHat> Company I worked for before got a relatively expensive netgear 48port gigE switch, that was crap too
<funkyHat> Yeah that's pretty cool
<NET||abuse> yeh, i've a bunch of the blue "business" class netgear boxes lying around too.. i wonder if they're as problematic,, if you say the 48port gigE one is similarly crap, maybe it's the same problem..
<popey> I have GS116 on my desk
<NET||abuse> a gigbit switch should allow you to do samba/scp transfers at about 30MB/s or more
<NET||abuse> if you just plug 2 devices into the switch and can't achieve that speed,, then you should probably consider this issue if it's netgear
<funkyHat> I don't think it was the same issue, just had some weird issues with PXE/tftp stuff we were doing
<NET||abuse> popey: so happy now, have all my video, music and 3 gigs of dev code backed up onto the N40L, mirror'd lvm setup,, was a few days of good learning
<popey> excellent
 * popey tests scp between two GbE machines
<funkyHat> I have FreeBSD on my N40L, wanted to try out ZFS. I still only have one hard drive in tehre though -_-
<funkyHat> *there
<NET||abuse> funkyHat: hehe, yeh, you gotta have a few disks to really enjoy the benefits..
<popey> how do you speed test scp?
<NET||abuse> although, you could just stick in any size disks you have, zfs is nice for mismatching disk sizes
<funkyHat> popey: -v ?
<NET||abuse> when zfs is generally available in linux under the new kernel module mode, i'll probably look into it.
<funkyHat> NET||abuse: to be honest md raid still beats zfs in a number of places
 * popey hugs btrfs
<funkyHat> Particularly for non enterprise
<NET||abuse> heheh
<NET||abuse> erally?
<NET||abuse> md raid didfferent to other raid?
<funkyHat> Yeah. It supports online restriping and conversion from raid1 to raid5, for a start
<popey> i look forward to the day btrfs gets raid4
<popey> er 5
<popey> "soon"
<popey> I'll live migrate my setup from RAID1 to RAID5
<NET||abuse> you think btrfs will catch up and overtake zfs?
<funkyHat> Not so important for a business where you'll probably buy a stack of big drives and upgrade them all at once, but awesome for someone like me who wants to be able to buy drives and add capacity one or two at a time
<popey> i dont know zfs enough to answer
<Azelphur> friends invited me to play a modded version of minecraft with programmable robots in it... https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/3832397/screenshots/2013/Apr/2013-04-22-044547_5120x1440_scrot.png
<Azelphur> I think I won :P
<popey> hah that looks fun
<Azelphur> it is awesome.
<diplo> Still never played minecraft :)
<Azelphur> popey: the bots run LUA, and the webserver is written in python, the bots poll the webserver for instructions and location information, the webserver keeps them all in formation
<popey> oh nice
<Azelphur> :D
<Azelphur> your welcome to come onto the server if you like
<NET||abuse> hhe, minecraft manager, the football manger game for geeks
<NET||abuse> i always wondered about minecraft, i've seen some folks play but,, is there a resources competitive way to play, that would be fun..
<directhex> minecraft is a toy, not a game
<NET||abuse> yeh, i guess.
<directhex> but fwiw, it *is* resource-competitive as long as you're in survival mode
<directhex> no rule saying you need to compete with other players
<directhex> er, cooperate
<directhex> anyway, bomb their houses
<NET||abuse> hmm, oh, have people created a walking dead prisona nd town i wonder
<NET||abuse> that would make perfect sense
<Azelphur> how do you flush the DNS cache now days?
<NET||abuse> oh jeebus, yeh, i hate dns caching issues
<NET||abuse> what's the situation?
<NET||abuse> command line? browser?
<Azelphur> browser
<NET||abuse> chrome yeh?
<NET||abuse> what you wanna do is visit chrome://net-internals/#dns
<NET||abuse> and fight with it
<MartijnVdS> oooh shinies
<Azelphur> thanks, that fixed it
<NET||abuse> ahh good, i'm glad
<NET||abuse> the net-internals view is oddly not widely discussed online..
<NET||abuse> not like the way firefox's settings thingy is covered
<NET||abuse> i'm such a chrome sheep these days, i can't even remember what hte firefox one is now
<Azelphur> hehe
 * popey hugs chromium
<popey> i used to be a firefox person then chrome, now chromium is my fave
<popey> multi-user is so handy
<NET||abuse> popey: i was irritated the other week when i realised the ubuntu chromium isn't kept uptodate
<MooDoo> never tried chromium to be honest
<NET||abuse> so i went and got the repo from google's chrome for deb.
<popey> yes it is
<selinuxium> Any Apache gurus about, I have strange thing going on one of my servers using Name-based Virtual Hosts
<popey> 25.0.1364.160  is the version in every release of ubuntu from lucid upwards
<NET||abuse> i wanted the copy curl thing from the network tab in inspector, and it was only available on chrome(ium) 26, and the ubuntu version even after apt-get update's was only 25
<popey> "only"
<NET||abuse> selinuxium: what's the issue? in detail please?
<NET||abuse> popey: hmm, is maybe chrome's versioning not in sync with chromium?
<NET||abuse> or maybe the "copy to curl" feature is a google thing only?
<mungbean> i stoped using chromium when it was insecure
<NET||abuse> right now my chrome install is 26.0.1410.63
<mungbean> was stuck on v18 for ages
<NET||abuse> and my chromium is 25.0.1364.160 like yousaid above..
<popey> hmm, interesting.
 * popey looks at chrisccoulson 
<popey> chrisccoulson: do we have a schedule for when we land chromium releases in distro?
<popey> "not release week" ? â»
<mgdm> Oh, nice
<mgdm> Unicode is working in my terminal now
<popey> ã
<NET||abuse> hehehe
<MartijnVdS> GNU Screen still doesn't do unicode 6 though: ð
<MartijnVdS> ooh
<MartijnVdS> wait
<MartijnVdS> it does now!
<BigRedS> Mine apparently doesn't :(
<NET||abuse> popey: do you use a character swtach to cpy paste those in or do you know key codes?
<MartijnVdS> oh wait
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: sorry, I've switched to byobu+tmux
<NET||abuse> MartijnVdS: apparently tmux is the new hawtness,,
<BigRedS> unless that was unicode question_mark_in_an_oval
<BigRedS> oh
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: it's U+1F60E SMILING FACE WITH SUNGLASSES
<mgdm> I'm on tmux and irssi, but recently restarted both after 300+ days of uptime
<BigRedS> yeah, but tmux's shortcuts are designed to frustrate long-time screen users
<mgdm> now it works, and I get full-colour emoji stuff from MartijnVdS....
<NET||abuse> mgdm: the other one there is weechat.. instead of irssi
<selinuxium> Hey BigRedS, How's you/
<BigRedS> tmux-in-screen is less mental than screen-in-screen, though
<BigRedS> selinuxium: not bad! You?
<BigRedS> Coming out on Thursday?
<mgdm> NET||abuse: I've been using irssi for so long that I'm probably not going to change now :-)
<NET||abuse> hehe, that's a good piont, nice to have the 2 apps with default alternate escape keys.
<diplo> I'd like to use tmux but it breaks with Putty on my lappy, just scrolls
<NET||abuse> mgdm: me too, but weechat is almost exactly like irssi, just with more features
<diplo> The suggestion is to switch to screen
<selinuxium> BigRedS, Yeah, I will be out. But sadly I have to be in Camden around 8ish to see Godsized..
<funkyHat> screen-in-screen isn't so bad, just have to keep track of how deep you're nesting them ;D
<MartijnVdS> funkyHat: same wit ssh-in-ssh :)
<BigRedS> 'sadly'
<NET||abuse> funkyHat: i can never figure out how to escape back up a layer of screen?
<selinuxium> BigRedS, though I will be at the venue from around 17:15
<MartijnVdS> (and the "<enter><tilde>" escape
<BigRedS> ah yeah, I intend to be that sort of early
<funkyHat> MartijnVdS: haha, yeah
<BigRedS> I finish at 4:30 in soho
<BigRedS> so I'll be down at 5ish I'd have thought
<selinuxium> I finish same time just outside Liverpool Street.. Depends on whether I walk over or tube it.
<funkyHat> NET||abuse: ^a a sends ^a to the client
<funkyHat> err... by client I mean the thing in the window
<BigRedS> I was pondering another boris bike experiment...
<popey> NET||abuse: it's a macro
<NET||abuse> ohh, weechat draws dotted lines on the channel when you stop looking at it and new messages appear.
<NET||abuse> that's hany
<MartijnVdS> NET||abuse: there's an irssi plugin for that ;)
<NET||abuse> MartijnVdS: hehe,, and it goes away when you switch channels again and come back,, so it's not interupting your scroll back with loads of dotted horizontal seperateors
<MartijnVdS> NET||abuse: it does that too
<diplo> I want links clickable in putty when using irssi like it does with terminal/terminator but cba to work it out / do it
<MartijnVdS> NET||abuse: one separator per window max.
<diplo> :P
<MartijnVdS> diplo: regex in putty
<NET||abuse> MartijnVdS: weechat must just be irssi with those kinds of plugins by default.
<MartijnVdS> oh wait..
<MartijnVdS> diplo: http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/putty/wishlist/url-launching.html
<MartijnVdS> NET||abuse: is it text-based?
<NET||abuse> yup
<diplo> ta MartijnVdS, will take a look
<NET||abuse> i run it just like irssi in a screen,, ahem,, i mean tmux, on my home server over ssh shell from work :0
<NET||abuse> although, i've not got my home ip today, dsl re-connected i think overnight.. so i'm just doing it in guake drop down for now
<diplo> ooh, nutty seems to work but umm some horrible selections of colours
<diplo> :P
<NET||abuse> weechat runs as weechat-curses..
<NET||abuse> i wonder do es that mean it has other gui fronts
<selinuxium> BigRedS, Do you know Godsized?
<NET||abuse> does anyone go to the flag and bell pub crawl meetups?
<funkyHat> I tried weechat once. Problem is I already had irssi set up pretty nicely.
<mungbean> weechat didn't have ssl support on centos5 repos, where my screen session runs
<mungbean> so fail.
<NET||abuse> yeh, i ahve both installed but i wasn't so invested in plugins for irssi, so moving weechat wasn't any barrier for me,, and then i get plugins decided on for me
<NET||abuse> mungbean: ooh, that's failworthy for sure.
<NET||abuse> wonder how i can test that.
<NET||abuse> if the ubuntu version has ssl
<NET||abuse> do you have to register for the releas party on thursday?
<bigcalm> Guess whom is back in MacDonald's for a working lunch?
<NET||abuse> have a work mate i'm dragging along :) he's  our network engingeer
<mungbean> NET||abuse: pretty sure it does
<BigRedS> selinuxium: the name rings a bell, just tried to listen to some but MySpace disagrees with my flash player
<selinuxium> BigRedS, Chekc them out on Youtube.. :)
<selinuxium> Off to lunch.. Chat later.
<mungbean> guys, if i got a tablet with 3g, i need to open a new contract right?
<NET||abuse> so i just regsitered on the loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-uk page, with a +11
<NET||abuse> ujnnnmmm   +1 i mean :P
<mungbean> or it comes with 3g ability and i have option whether to stick my own sim in it?
<NET||abuse> that's the only place i need to register yeH?
<BigRedS> mungbean: depends how you buy the tablet I'd imagine
<mungbean> amazon?
<mungbean> and galaxy note vs galaxy tab2?
<dogmatic69> mungbean: you can use pay and go afaik
<brobostigon> arent there some like giffgaff that do data only payg ?
<mungbean> yeah
<mungbean> what's the diff between the 10.1 inch galaxy note and the galxy tab 2?
<mungbean> you get a stylus with the note- but otherwis?
<ormiret> Note has stylus stuff and two extra cores
<ormiret> and an extra GB of RAM
<mungbean> wowza
<popey> NET||abuse: yes
<BigRedS> selinuxium: whoah. hairy
<NET||abuse> popey: thanks
<selinuxium> BigRedS, Great aren't they!
<czajkowski> selinuxium: boo
<selinuxium> hey czajkowski how is you?
<czajkowski> selinuxium: not bad now and your good self
<selinuxium> What happened to the L? You like Madonna now? ;)
<selinuxium> I am good thanks  :)
<selinuxium> Or has my memory been dulled by my lack of attendance here?
<czajkowski> no idea what L is
<czajkowski> ;)
<cocoa117> i edit visudo file with this line "nagios  ALL=(root) NOPASSWD: /usr/sbin/smartctl", but i still get Permission denied error message, any idea what's wrong here?
<SuperMatt> wait, what are you trying to do?
<SuperMatt> giving nagios root access is not a good idea :/
<cocoa117> allow nagios uid have root access so it can do smartctl on hard disk
<cocoa117> SuperMatt, only for single program, otherwise, no way to allow it to work
<MartijnVdS> cocoa117: you can change the permissions/capabilities of smartctl so user 'nagios' can run it
<SuperMatt> right, well sure you can do that, but there's other parts of a nagios conf where you'd have to change the command from /usr/sbin/smartctl to sudo /usr/sbin/smartctl
<cocoa117> SuperMatt, ohhh, yes, right, i think i miss that, thanx for point it out, :)
<cocoa117> i go have look
<ali1234> does anyone here actually use facebook on a regular basis and understands how it works?
<ali1234> i'm trying to put a like button on a webpage and it just doesn't work
<ali1234> the twitter button and g+ button work fine. i think facebook is just rubbish
<popey> using https://developers.facebook.com/docs/reference/plugins/like/  ?
<ali1234> yes
<BigRedS> I use facebook frequently, but I wouldn't have thought I knew what was wrong with a like button...
<ali1234> what happens is i click the button and then the flyout appears
<ali1234> as soon as i mouse over the flyout to type a comment it disappears and the like button changes to "confirm"
<ali1234> i click confirm and it opens a popup box where i have to confirm i want to like the page
<ali1234> then after that the flyout reappears and i can type a comment
<ali1234> then i click "post" and nothing happens
<ali1234> this means that the like only appears on my activity, and not in my timeline, because there is no comment
<ali1234> here is an example http://dev.drumoff.tv/v/269/
<ali1234> also the inline button now doesn't appear at all
<ali1234> i think this might be caused because i have clicked the like button about 8 millions times in the course of trying to make it work
<ali1234> or perhaps because i have the world's most locked down facebook account
<ali1234> but it is pretty much impossible to tell
<popey> i thought stuff doesn't necessarily always appear in your timeline
<popey> you have to pay to promote stuff now
<ali1234> yeah
<ali1234> but i can't post it at all
<ali1234> http://jsfiddle.net/PUxaL/
<ali1234> http://jsfiddle.net/PUxaL/1/
<diplo> 		//$this->debug('Finished :' . date("F j, Y, g:i a"));
<diplo> Arse :-/
 * bigcalm flops back into the hot seat
 * bigcalm now had _mostly_ working DAB in his car :)
<kvarley> Easiest way to disable (or set an unlimited) timeout for PHP?
<bigcalm> kvarley: set it to 0
<diplo> http://php.net/manual/en/function.set-time-limit.php
<BigRedS> you might need to also set it to 0 in suhosin
<diplo> Had enough php recently for everyone!
<diplo> Want to go back to being a sysadmin full time i think
<kvarley> Thanks diplo and bigcalm
<kvarley> \0/ it works
<bigcalm> kvarley: next you'll be making a fork bomb
<kvarley> bigcalm: It's fine, the code is pointed at google
<kvarley> bigcalm: Geocoding lots of postcodes
<kvarley> Only doing it with ~30 postcodes until I get a business account setup tomorrow
<kvarley> They restrict to 2500 requests a day, 100,000 with the a biz account
<MartijnVdS> http://www.freethepostcode.org/ ;)
<Myrtti> and now for something different: http://fotcorn.github.io/StarRSS/#http://feeds.bbci.co.uk/news/uk/rss.xml?edition=uk
<bigcalm> Haha, nice
<MartijnVdS> \o/
<Myrtti> comment from a friend: "News became immediately more interesting"
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: http://fotcorn.github.io/StarRSS/#http://www.reddit.com/.rss
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: was it you talking about moving from VM to BigV on Bytemark?
<mgdm> bigcalm: I think I might have once?
<bigcalm> mgdm: oh, okay. I asked Bytemark if it was worth my while moving over to BigV and they said no :)
<mgdm> heh
<NET||abuse> hehe, i've ended up with branches called "list" and "status"
<mgdm> ...
<mgdm> hehe
<bigcalm> Ha
<mungbean> hmm
<mungbean> child benefit form. second child recently born "how many children are you claiming for on this form?"
<mungbean> is the asnwer 1 or 2?
<SuperMatt> 2... I would have thought
<mungbean> i'm thinking 1
<SuperMatt> why's that?
<directhex> 1.5
<mungbean> "How many children are you claiming for on this form?"
<mungbean> only matches a pdf for the form
<SuperMatt> surely you'll be claiming for the second though?
<SuperMatt> I mean, why wouldn't you?
<mungbean> but i already am
<SuperMatt> I see, but are you adding an additional child, or updating your previous claim?
<mungbean> new sprog born so making new claim
<SuperMatt> because this is the kind of gumph that really messes with people's heads
<SuperMatt> hmmm
<mungbean> the help form skips this question
<SuperMatt> I would call and ask
<mungbean> there's space for 2 on the form and the help form has space for 2 more
<mungbean> hence, looks like (1) is the naswer
<mungbean> because lots of families have >2 kids
<SuperMatt> yarr
<mungbean> so it must be for the edge case that triplets born
<mungbean> or adoption of 3 kids at once etc
<popey> I initially wanted 6 kids
<popey> This was quickly vetoed by wifey
<mgdm> every 3rd kid being an LTS?
<popey> hah
<mungbean> gonna go for 1
<TheOpenSourcerer> We wanted 4 but got too old too quickly ;-)
<NET||abuse> my step mum has 18 siblings
<NET||abuse> and only 2 of the 18 are twins
<popey> zoiks
<NET||abuse> yeh, it's a nuts family.
<NET||abuse> pretty awsome though
<mungbean> catholic
<mungbean> ?
<NET||abuse> haha, yeh, irish catholic
<mungbean> i always ask, and they always are.
<NET||abuse> :P racist!
<popey> Catholics are a race now?>
<NET||abuse> left handers too!
 * mungbean is left handed
<NET||abuse> gingers are definately their own race also!
<mungbean> they have no soul, i heard
<NET||abuse> they angrily protest that claim
 * bigcalm kicks mungbean 
<mungbean> man, ISAs are a pain now
<mungbean> nothing is worth it unless a fixed ISA.
<NET||abuse> ISA,,, gateway microsoft thing
<NET||abuse> ?
<mungbean> so in 3 years you have to shovel expired ISAs into another ISA, AND shovel the fresh money into a new ISA
<Laney> yeah, seems like you have to open two per year
<Laney> once to transfer your old fixed term one and one for new money
<NET||abuse> I think people who are cynophobic should also be their own race..
<NET||abuse> it's just wrong to be scared of dogs... der so cewt!
<mungbean> http://ubuntuone.com/39evXtJFneLPMjL0StQuot << look at my screen corruption :(
<mungbean> might open a five year one to put off doing the shovelling
<NET||abuse> ahha,, i copied the url and tried to paste it into a curl command to view the image
<NET||abuse> copied from one term and tried to paste into another terminal..duh
<Laney> 5 year rates are so crap atm though
<Laney> transferring is quite easy in my experience
<mungbean> my theory is everything is deliberately difficult to make sure you don't do it
<Laney> i look forward to when you can put all of your allowance in cash isas
<Laney> stocks and shares, now there's a pain in the arse
<mungbean> is it free to trade S&S if they are in an iSA?
<mungbean> eg. i want an ARM ISA
<Laney> you don't pay CGT or tax on dividends etc
<Laney> still other fees though
<bigcalm> ........EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE.E........... 126 / 211 ( 59%)
<Laney> or maybe s/don't pay/pay a bit less/?
<awilkins> Anyone use Org-mode ?
<bigcalm> Read that in the voice of Mini-Me
<Laney> i don't have one, just read a bit about it
<Myrtti> meh, I should call specsavers
<Myrtti> not interested at all.
<mungbean> worried about bug 1140716
<lubotu3> bug 1140716 in linux-lts-quantal (Ubuntu Precise) "[regression] 3.5.0-26-generic and 3.2.0-39-generic GPU hangs on Sandybridge" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1140716
<mungbean> loads of ppl getting shafted on it, but all eyes on 13.04 atm i guess
<SuperMatt> yea, well raring doesn't use 3.5 or 3.2
<SuperMatt> but I guess if it's affecting many people, it still needs to be worked on
<SuperMatt> I assume that users can choose a different kernel at boot time?
<awilkins> So : Emacs, does it cause as much RSI as the lists of keyboard shortcuts lead me to believe?
<mungbean> i jumped to 3.5 to fix this
<mungbean> earlier in the thread was rec'd
<mungbean> not convinced 3.2.40 is actually fixed
<mungbean> 276 people say it affects them
<mungbean> thats high for lp
<SuperMatt> indeed
<Laney> the bug statuses indicate that it's fixed but not in ubuntu yet
<bigcalm> SuperMatt: how's the daemon?
<popey> i had lockups in 3.8 too
<popey> on raring
<MartijnVdS> ah, so it's not just me 8-)
<popey> bug 1041790
<lubotu3> bug 1041790 in xserver-xorg-video-intel (Ubuntu) "[snb] GPU lockup IPEHR: 0x0b160001 IPEHR: 0x0b140001, workaround i915.semaphores=0" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1041790
<MartijnVdS> they resolve quickly for me though
<MartijnVdS> just a few seconds of "hang" once of twice a day
<popey> i get none now
<popey> i have that workaround though
<MartijnVdS> ooh, trying that tomorrow at work
<popey> hmm, all of precise & precise-updates & precise-security, binary only i386, main, universe, restricted and multiverse takes up 57GB
<popey> wonder if that would fit on a 64GB USB stick
<MartijnVdS> you'd need "binary-all" as well
<popey> this has that i presume
<popey> arch=i386
<MartijnVdS> If it has _all.debs it does
<popey> alan@homeserver:/srv/repostick/www/ubuntu/pool$ find . | grep -c _all
<popey> 19664
<popey> looks good
<MartijnVdS> \o/
<ali1234> i bet a large number f those packages are mutually exclusive
<popey> i expect so
<popey> also, multiple versions of many
<ali1234> i would download a torrent if you make it work tho
<popey> ./universe/z/zope.site/python-zope.site_3.9.2-0ubuntu3_all.deb
<popey> ./universe/z/zope.size/python-zope.size_3.5.0-0ubuntu1_all.deb
<ali1234> i hate how nearly everything useful is missing from the default install
<ali1234> but wait
<ali1234> you need all the debug packages too
 * popey wonders if everyone has ssh attempts from university-security-research-see-https-pki-net-in-tum-de
<popey> auth.log.1:Apr 18 03:50:28 homeserver sshd[4554]: Invalid user university-security-research-see-https-pki-net-in-tum-de from 188.95.234.6
<ali1234> has anyone tried fenrus btw?
<MartijnVdS> popey: well, the important bit is "188.95.234.6" :)
<ali1234> it uses some kind of magic to provide debug symbols on demand, any time, without messing up the system
<ali1234> for 100% of packages
<ali1234> nothing in my logs from that ip or similar hosts
<MartijnVdS> wow.. a big Dutch pharmacy chain has a QT/Linux version of their photo app.. ordering photos Just Works :)
<awilkins> Hmm, is it just me or is emacs totally unusable in Unity because Unity commandeers the "Meta" key?
<ali1234> awilkins: it;s not just you
<MartijnVdS> well you can remap the Unity key
<awilkins> Not an Emacs user but I was just following the tutorial and every time it prompts me to hit Meta the d
<MartijnVdS> or use ESC instead 8-)
<awilkins> dash opens
<ali1234> you can unbind meta and super from unity. i find that makes it slightly less annoying
<ali1234> it's in ccsm
<awilkins> Yeah, I already have capslock rebound to be a meta key because my favourite keyboard doesn't have one :-)
<ali1234> you mean super i guess unless your keyboard is really weird
<awilkins> ali1234, No Windows key
<awilkins> ali1234, Old IBM Model M
<awilkins> I may be mixing them up
<ali1234> windows = super
<ali1234> alt = meta
<ali1234> in ccsm anyway
<awilkins> Ah, that works OK
<awilkins> As long as you use combos and don't "tap"
<ali1234> hud should really be bound to the context key
<ali1234> i mean it's not like anyone ever uses it for anything else, ever
<awilkins> Don't have one of those either :-)
<ali1234> sure, but on a model m you don't have much at all
<mgdm> using Unity on a PC laptop with a Mac keyboard is 'fun'
<mgdm> things popping up all the time
<ali1234> except tinnitus
<awilkins> ali1234, Just 0 and 1 ; but they are a real pleasure to use :-P
<awilkins> Emacs is already making me go "urrrr"
<ali1234> as well it should
<ali1234> it's not the only program that has had trouble with unity stealing the alt key though
<awilkins> I mean, ctrl p, n, b, f for up down left right??? even vim makes positional sense
<mgdm> previous, next, back, forward
<mgdm> but yeah, not ideal
<awilkins> I get the mnemonics but they're sprawled all over and need a modifier key
 * awilkins perseveres
<awilkins> Only reason I'm doing this is to see if Org-mode is interesting
<ormiret> awilkins: you're supposed to disagree with emacs defaults - emacs isn't an editor it's a very good system to build an editor in.
<MartijnVdS> popey: http://www.kcrg.com/news/local/Elvis-Impersonator-Holds-Des-Moines-Police-at-Bay-204031911.html
<ali1234> hmm i'm really confused now
<ali1234> all the posts on my devsite are getting loads of likes and +1s and i have no idea why
<ali1234> still at least it works
<ali1234> great, facebook thinks i am a spammer
#ubuntu-uk 2013-04-23
<rjelte> I have a question that's more UK related than Ubuntu, but hopefully you'll be able to help me: I'm setting up international shipping for a web store, and I'm getting some unfamiliar options for "Administrative Areas" (mostly counties).
<rjelte> I'm getting some normal ones like Bedfordshire and Blackpool, but I have quite a few that look like this:  (UK13), (UK83), (UK85).
<rjelte> Do those have any significance, or are they just an artifact of the internationalization library?
<bootkigftrgds> Morning Aloha All..
<redtape> Is it release day today ??
<redtape>                                     .... as in 13.04 ?
<redtape> Right , I'm off for a paper .. I expect a response within 17.8 minutes ..
<MartijnVdS> redtape: could be yes
<redtape> MartijnVdS:  Ahh-ha  .. I will be installing 13:04 at the coffee shop ... Coffee Republic Ho !
<Myrtti> probably not
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: there aren't going to be too many changes though.. probably
<MartijnVdS> april 25th is official release day, according to the wiki
<Myrtti> it's always a Thursday.
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: ah.. hadn't noticed that before
 * MartijnVdS upgrades anyway.
<MartijnVdS> Must be my inner rebel.
<Myrtti> usually the last Thursday of the month
<popey> Morning.
<MartijnVdS> \o popey
<TheOpenSourcerer> Morning one and all.
<BigRedS> Good Morning!
<czajkowski> aloha
<MartijnVdS> \o
<JamesTait> Good morning all! Happy St George's Day! :-D
<SuperMatt> a happy st georges day to you too
<SuperMatt> how many dragons do you plan to slay today?
<JamesTait> LOTS!
<JamesTait> Big ones, too.
<AlanBell> save the dragons!
<JamesTait> But the dragons eat our users' files and change their passwords and break their networks.
<AlanBell> they are just misunderstood
<czajkowski> still baffling how ye don't celebrate the day
<czajkowski> nor why ye actually celebrate st. patricks day
<JamesTait> I tried getting to know one of these dragins once. Chomped my files right there in front of me. No word of apology nor explanation.
<JamesTait> I donned my mithral shield and slew him with my vorpal sword.
<JamesTait> He hasn't chomped any more of my files.
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<directhex> are you sure it was a dragon and not a sysadmin?
<SuperMatt> sysadmins don't break stuff!
<SuperMatt> I spend all my time fixing stuff other people break D:
<mungbean> we had squirrels/rats chomp through our datacentre fibre last month \o/
<SuperMatt> good stuff
<NET||abuse> great fun, i have to re-connect every day cause sky bounces my ip :(
<directhex> BT don't bounce mine, although my DSL was down for a bit last night
<SuperMatt> my BT IP only changes if I get disconnected
<selinuxium> MORNING ALL   O/
<selinuxium> Oops.. Shouty greeting..
<bigcalm> VirginMedia only seem to change my IP if they have been dicking around with things
<SuperMatt> which is most of the time?
<bigcalm> Hehe
<bigcalm> Thankfully it's not as nutty as I sometimes make out
<SuperMatt> http://devopsreactions.tumblr.com/post/48683090696/when-you-realize-youre-using-your-own-library-wrong
<bigcalm> Ha
<SuperMatt> I must confess I've been on the wrong end of my own code in the past
<NET||abuse> must consider moving isp
<NET||abuse> i only get 1024 up and 17000 down,, could do better
<NET||abuse> been with sky for about a year and few months,, what's contract exit like anyone know?
<NET||abuse> what's the recomendation on isp's in here?
 * popey is on virgin cable
<popey> http://www.speedtest.net/result/2663970246.png
<NET||abuse> mmm not bad
<mungbean> virgin is very region dependent
<mungbean> they tend to oversubscribe badly
<NET||abuse> last test i did was 8Mb/s down, 700Kb/s up
<NET||abuse> really upsetting when you're expecting 25Mb/s
<popey> erk
<popey> "up to" â¹
<NET||abuse> yup, kinda sucky
<NET||abuse> oh yeh, up to 25Mb/s,, you might hope for 16 or 18
<NET||abuse> but 8.... blech
<popey> mine rarely goes below what you see above
<popey> my wifi is more of a bottleneck than my net connection
<Laney> Our new product boasts an up to 100% success rate!
 * popey reboots to confirm bugs
<NET||abuse> popey: saw the tail end of your interview with brian lunduke yesterday
<mungbean> have laptop plugged into a monitor capable of 1920x1200 but only 1440x900 maximum offered ? any ideas?
<popey> NET||abuse: it's on youtube now
<popey> SING HOSANA, BUG FIXED!
<NET||abuse> yeh, was just cooking dinner when the live stream was half way through,, didn't wait to see when it would be ready for regular youtube viewing
<NET||abuse> will have to watch it now
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<mungbean> morning
<mungbean> what a beautiful day
<popey> yes!
<mungbean> i sit at a window with sunlight again now
<popey> it's a "blind up" kind of day
<popey> maybe even a windows-open day
<NET||abuse> arghghg,, evil day star!!
<davmor2> Morning all
<mungbean> wow
<mungbean> not on mile end rd
<mungbean> sirens and pollution
<NET||abuse> mungbean: yeh, not on Old Street neither
<brobostigon> morning mungbean
<brobostigon> morning davmor2
<popey> http://popey.com/webcam/
<popey> lovely sunny day
<NET||abuse> good postelevensespreprelunch12oclocktee brobostigon
<brobostigon> NET||abuse: :)
<NET||abuse> anyone used soemthing like oric.com to find ways to watch your tv stories without resorting to bad thins?
<popey> Bad Things â¢
<directhex> b-b-b-b-b-baaad to the booooone
<NET||abuse> :P yeh, i don't like using methods that could ultimately get me in trouble to watch shows i want to watch. So i have a netflix account(come on html5 version) and I've looked at love film and just saw blinkbox which i'll checkout
<NET||abuse> love film just is too limited
<popey> I tried blinkbox and didnt see a very good selection
<NET||abuse> it's just so easy to use a torrent,
<popey> much like netflix
<popey> although I watched all of dexter on netflix so that was nice
<NET||abuse> yeh, i've been wathcing house of cards.. netflix
<NET||abuse> is dexter up to date?
<NET||abuse> i found uk netflix is often behind on seasons
<popey> dexter is, yes
<NET||abuse> oh, didn't realise..
 * mungbean isn't sure he would want to watch stuff that isn;t already on UK telly
<SuperMatt> if you're using the netflix-desktop program, just press ctrl+t and go to mediahint.com ;)
 * popey is using netflix on android
<NET||abuse> mediahint..interesting, will add that to my checkout list tonight.
<NET||abuse> yeh, i've been using netflix-desktop so that's working great.
<NET||abuse> my nexus 7 is dead at them moment, have to rma it, but the compholio project is working fine for me
<NET||abuse> i hear they're working on html5 version, but it might be 2014 bofore that happens..
<mungbean> what happened to the n7 NET||abuse ?
<NET||abuse> well i've 2 n7's, oen for me and one for the missus, her one stopped charging, and i replaced it.. then both ehr and my one again stopped charging..
<mungbean> :-|
<mungbean> whats the problem?
<mungbean> charger?
<NET||abuse> i'm really supprised, I only use hte official charger, and i charge my phone for the last 18months from the same charger and plugs as i use for the nexus, but they just seem to be flakey
<NET||abuse> no, charger is fine, my phone still charges of it no issues.
<NET||abuse> but that's 3 n7's that have just died on me
<mungbean> stopped charging while it had some charge, or the charge ran low and wouldn't charge?
<NET||abuse> i have both with me today, was going to start RMA on them at lunch today
<NET||abuse> i think the latter
<NET||abuse> though, when i plug in my one,, i get a flicker of a few lines of static snow on the screen when i try to power it up while plugged in
<mungbean> i had that with my touchpad HP
<popey> ropey conector?
<NET||abuse> anyway, not to worry, google will hopefully replace em.
<popey> usb really is the worst set of connectors ever
<NET||abuse> popey: not sure to be honest.
<mungbean> TP ran low, cable broke a bit, which resulted in the TP displaying the screen all night that says "use a better charger". this ran the battery down too low to re-charge it
<NET||abuse> i dont' think so.. seem solidly connected
<mungbean> had to replace battery
<mungbean> now i'm paranoid when the battery goes below 30%
<mungbean> looks like all change in july so gonna wait till then to buy my wifey a n7
<mungbean> and maybe pick up a bargain
<NET||abuse> what's gonna change in july?
<mungbean> new model of n7
<mungbean> maybe cheaper again
<mungbean> plus the old models will be cheapy cheap
<mungbean> google just wanna shift units, rather than profit on these
<NET||abuse> yeh, just read on the new iteration
<NET||abuse> hmm, not sure i am ready to invest in new hardware
<NET||abuse> just spend money on setting up home server.
<NET||abuse> and some family stuff to pay for next 3 months
<bigcalm> My goodness I hate sql server
<mungbean> linux-headers-3.2.0-41-generic depends on linux-headers-3.2.0-41; however: Package linux-headers-3.2.0-41 is not installed.
<mungbean> ^^ trying to install linux kernel and headers from deb , as advised by launchpad
<mungbean> what's going on here?
<BigRedS> are you using   dpkg -i   or   apt-get install   ?
<mungbean> dpkg -i blah.deb
<popey> so install headers too?
<popey> do both
<popey> dpkg -i *.deb
<mungbean> i did
<BigRedS> yeah, dpkg doesn't pull in dependencies, it just detects them
<mungbean> sudo dpkg -i linux-headers-3.2.0-41-generic_3.2.0-41.65~spcreverted30ae292_amd64.deb linux-image-3.2.0-41-generic_3.2.0-41.65~spcreverted30ae292_amd64.deb
<BigRedS> apt-get -f install will pull the dependencies in if they're in the repos
<mungbean> yeah that didn't work
<BigRedS> ah, no, you're not installing from the repos
<mungbean> no
<BigRedS> what does just   dpkg -i linux-headers-3.2.0-41-generic_3.2.0-41.65~spcreverted30ae292_amd64.deb   say?
<popey> where'd that come from?
<mungbean> bug 1140716
<lubotu3> bug 1140716 in linux-lts-quantal (Ubuntu Precise) "[regression] 3.5.0-26-generic and 3.2.0-39-generic GPU hangs on Sandybridge" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1140716
<mungbean> BigRedS: it gives the error i posted up there &^^^
<popey> you'll also want extras
<mungbean> nothing else in the directory http://people.canonical.com/~sconklin/
<popey> there are 3 in there
<mungbean> http://people.canonical.com/~sconklin/precise-revert-4c443ec/
<popey> image, headers, extras
<mungbean> in http://people.canonical.com/~sconklin/precise-revert-4c443ec/ ?
<mungbean> you are looking in quantal
<popey> ah, i am
<mungbean> look in precise
<mungbean> and v3.2.0.41
<mungbean> maybe i'll wit until it's generally available
<mungbean> but it's embarrassing if you are looking at facebook for 10 seconds and your screen freezes for a 30 secs just as your boss walks over
<mungbean> i wonder if download.opensus.org gets throttled for ubuntu usrs...easily the slowest repo i have
<hoover> hi folks
<popey> I'm getting ~4MB/s here
<popey> 10% [===>                                   ] 73,116,439  3.88MB/s  eta 2m 39s
<popey> and thats from mirror.ox.ac.uk, so not their box
<davmor2> popey: 100%[======================================>] 515,525,161 7.41M/s   in 71s
<mungbean> apt-get update takes forever on that line
<mungbean> the actual package install is quick
<popey> use a different mirror?
 * popey wonders if his "which is the best mirror" script still works
<mungbean> but the package donwload is quick
<popey> what's slow?
<mungbean> apt-get update
<mungbean> fetching headers
<mungbean> just on the Hit http://download.opensuse.org  Release.gpg
<mungbean> Hit http://download.opensuse.org  Release
<mungbean> Hit http://download.opensuse.org  Packages
<mungbean> lines
<Laney> google's repo does that too
<mungbean> always has done, every pc i owned
<popey> yeah
<mungbean> takes longer than rest of list combined
<bigcalm> Had a shock this morning. Switched on the workstation and got a grub error that it couldn't find the harddrive and gave the uuid. ctrl-alt-del gave the same response. Power cycling fixed the issue. Not how one wants to start the day
<BigRedS> I hate UUIDs in grub
<MooDoo> hello all
<popey> lo
<brobostigon> afternoonings MooDoo
<MooDoo> :)
<brobostigon> :)
<knightwise> hey everyone
<MooDoo> everyone ok?
<bigcalm> Unlikely but mostly
<bigcalm> How are you MooDoo?
<popey> http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/geary-a-beautiful-modern-open-source-email-client
<popey> not gonna do it are they?
<MooDoo> bigcalm: I'm well thanks :)
<brobostigon> MooDoo: just tryinh something new that i found when shopping the other day, butter made with goats milk, on my lunch sandwiches.
<MooDoo> brobostigon: yun
<MooDoo> yum
<brobostigon> MooDoo: yes, and i can have it aswell, as i am allergic to cows milk.
<bigcalm> :(
<mungbean> is buffalo mozzarella really from buffalo?
 * mungbean :S
<bigcalm> Buffalo milk
<bigcalm> mmmmm
<mungbean> what does buffalo mlk taste like?
<brobostigon> no idea.
 * bigcalm shrugs
<bigcalm> Only had it in mozzarella :D
<MooDoo> time to go home yet?
 * bigcalm is home \o/
<MooDoo> :p
<bigcalm> Oh, wait a moment
<MooDoo> I was working at home this morning before I went to the dentist, it's so much more fun working from home
<popey> it is when it's http://popey.com/webcam like that out
 * brobostigon fears dentists, :(
<popey> today is the first day of the kids back at school
<popey> peace!
<brobostigon> :)
<knightwise> ever since I saw armageddon .. i fear dentists and their drils
<MooDoo> popey: my son starts school in sept, having to purchase uniforms and everything
<popey> heh, expensive
<Laney> send him in a potato sack
<MooDoo> yeah and for a 4 year old that's taller than normal, we're having to get bigger sizes.....whay oh why am I so tall lol
<davmor2> MooDoo: you have no-one but yourself to blame
<MooDoo> davmor2: shush you
<davmor2> MooDoo: Well you could blame your Missus but I reckon she'll find out what you said and we won't hear from you for a few weeks while the hospital puts you back together ;)
<MooDoo> davmor2: thankfully she doesn't know about IRC and doesn't know it's logged :p
<Laney> that can be fixed
<davmor2> MooDoo: More than one person ready to drop you in it, man you are popular :)
 * MooDoo takes a bow, I thank you :)
<Laney> muhaha
<knightwise> echo log.txt >> mailto://moodoo'swife@trouble.com
<Laney> MooDoo: saw your post about coworking spaces; do you work from home?
<MooDoo> Laney: no
<Laney> bah
<MooDoo> just thought it was a great idea
<Laney> need more east midlands home workers
<directhex> knightwise,  ever since I saw armageddon .. i fear aerosmith
<davmor2> Laney: you are welcome to trundle over to wolves some time and join me and bigcalm and moreati :)
<Laney> now what time in the morning would i have to get up for that v_v
<MooDoo> Laney: it would be nice
<Laney> davmor2: 06:37 train
 * Laney splutters
<davmor2> Laney: where abouts are you then
<Laney> nottm
<davmor2> Laney: drive it's only an hour and a half :)
<Laney> i don't drive
<Laney> could cycle ...
<davmor2> That's no excuse :)(
<davmor2> - (
<davmor2> Laney: Yeah cycle we'll see you in a month, you might be fired by then but you get to co-work :)
<Laney> heh
<Laney> probably only take a solid day
<MooDoo> Laney: looked at http://nottinghack.org.uk/ ?
<Laney>  67.0 mi, 6 hours 25 mins
<Laney> MooDoo: yeah, thought it was more for electronics stuff though
<Laney> although they do advertise it as a co-working space
<MooDoo> yeah
<czajkowski> Laney: you in london this week
<Laney> no
<Laney> same problem as getting to wolverhampton, with the added cherry on top that it costs about 85 quid
<Laney> i maintain that more stuff should be in the east mids
<MooDoo> Laney: there is another place in nottingham that's nice to work at
<czajkowski> Laney: find me a venue and we can do a hackntalk there :)
<directhex> i am an even-handed and neutral person when it comes to the east and west midlands
<directhex> partly because i live right on the border between them both
<czajkowski> http://hackntalkjune.eventbrite.com/
<Laney> czajkowski: the hackspace would probably be good for that
<Laney> not that i've got anything to do with it
<Laney> MooDoo: malt cross?
<MooDoo> Laney: lol no antenna
<Laney> never 'eard of it
<Laney> looks trendy
<MooDoo> it's not bad, Â£25 a year member ship quite cheap
<Laney> interesting
<NET||abuse> ughh,, scp'ing a video down off my hom eserver to work, 76Kb/s,,,,, argh
<mungbean> Arm Holdings was the strongest stock on the main index, up 8.3 per cent at 941.5p after it reported a 31 per cent rise in first-quarter pre-tax profits, helping it to repeat existing full-year profit guidance.
<mungbean> \o/
<NET||abuse> :) I knew they'd say that...
 * NET||abuse made bad judge dred reference
<MooDoo> NET||abuse: yes it was bad :)
 * NET||abuse is ashamed of himself
<MooDoo> NET||abuse: so you should be, now give me 15 hail fedoras and 20 I love suse's as penance ;)
<NET||abuse> neverrr.... i worship at the alter of gentoo and satanic linux!
<NET||abuse> i've never actually built gentoo,
<NET||abuse> or done an LFS
<NET||abuse> would be interesting.
<NET||abuse> ahh, who has time.
<NET||abuse> hmm, killed a mail backup i was doing, scp stabillised at 111KB/s
<NET||abuse> still pretty crap
<NET||abuse> ok, there's a new one.. so the nexus7 trouble i was having,,, the thing wont charge,, qa girl in my office says to me, she had charging problem with her phone, it went nuts and then wouldn't charge off the wall cahrger, but she put it into the computer,, and that fixed it.. i just did the same with my now 3 weeks dead n7.....
<NET||abuse> magic...
<NET||abuse> well.. we'll see,, the google symbox and the nexus X came up,, then it shut down again.
<NET||abuse> ok, google and nexus came up again... i quickly switched over to mains..... and pooof!!!
<NET||abuse> ij ust got my home screen... but now it says power off----- shutting down.
<NET||abuse> hmmm, how do you stop it booting up and power down over and over.
<brobostigon> NET||abuse: maybe ask in #android
<NET||abuse> fair point
<brobostigon> :)
<NET||abuse> oh god.. ok it wnet through another boot cycle, then got static on speakers and light snow on screen..
<NET||abuse> for about 3 seoncds
<hoover> hi folks
<mungbean> how many devices can you attach to one netflix user account?
<mungbean> are you allowed simultaneous streams?
<popey> mungbean: i dont think there's a limit
<MooDoo> hello hoover
<popey> you dont attach devices, you just login and use it
<popey> it doesn't know one device from another
<popey> they probably dont allow multiple device streaming simultaneously, but not tried it
<mungbean> hmm
<mungbean> even still, i bet a lot of people shared logins
 * popey tries it
<popey> i share my spotify login
<mungbean> with mrs popey?
<popey> ya
<mungbean> if multiple streaming is allowed then its a wonder they get more than one customre at all
 * popey has the same programme streaming on two devices 
<popey> but both on same IP
<mungbean> The current plan lets subscribers stream to two different devices at the same time using one subscription, the new plan allows streaming to four devices at once.
<mungbean> http://www.businessinsider.com/netflix-shareable-accounts-2013-4
<popey> nice
<mungbean> my whole extended family could use that
<Daviey> popey: I was digging through my family tree, turns out we are related. Can i be sharing your netflix pls?
<bigcalm> Proxy!
<mungbean> is it as nice as it looks outside?
<BigRedS> allegedly
<BigRedS> I've just been informed so by someone recently back from lunch
<brobostigon> sunny and blues skies and 15c, here.
<mungbean> been outside, v nice
<mungbean> hayfever, but warm
<mungbean> 17c her
<mungbean> pwncloud y u stealing all my cpu?
<BigRedS> pwncloud?
<ging> does anyone know a simple way to setup an ubuntu box for texting to allow root login with a blank password (not using ssh key) ?
<bigcalm> rz5HjF7Xzm9U
<mungbean> nice password
<bigcalm> Fiddle sticks
<bigcalm> Thanks
<mungbean> ssh root@bigcalm
<mungbean> # rm -rf /
<bigcalm> Yay for cloaks
<mungbean> ging: for "texting"?
<ging> testing
<BigRedS> init=/bin/bash
<ging> i meant over ssh
<BigRedS> not that I can think of; closest you'll get is probably an ssh key, really
<popey> why not using an ssh key?
<popey> well, you can edit /etc/ssh/sshd_config and allow password logins and allow root logins
<BigRedS> yeah, but that just allows passworded root logins, he wants no-password root login
<popey> well you have to allow that initially
<popey> then blank the password
<BigRedS> oh, I'm sure I tried that somewhere before and it didn't work...
<Laney> there's an sshd_config option for that too
<Laney> PermitEmptyPasswords or something
<BigRedS> ahh
<mungbean> you do know it's a bad idea though?
<BigRedS> not universally...
<ging> so if i set a root password and then blank it, it should let me in with the right sshd config? how do i blank the root password after enabling it?
<ging> do i want to blank out the hash in the shadow file? or maybe put ! or * ?
<mgdm> that'd lock the account, surely
<ging> seems to
<ging> but it won't allow me to change the password to nothing
<mungbean> sudo sed -i 's/nullok_secure/nullok/' /etc/pam.d/common-auth
<mungbean> might help
<mungbean> warning : may shag your system
<shauno> that looks familiar.  nullok will accept passwordless root, nullok_secure will accept passwordless root from devices listed in /etc/securetty
<mungbean> there's also a nopasswdlogin group its worth adding the user to
<popey> ging: whats the purpose of this?
<popey> i.e. why not use keys?
<mgdm> I'm wondering if it's to time how long the machine takes to get 0wned :)
<BigRedS> do dictionary attacks bother trying "root" and ""?
<mungbean> yes
<mungbean> [citation needed]
<mungbean> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/10008707/Toddlers-becoming-so-addicted-to-iPads-they-require-therapy.html
<mungbean> my toddler has a tantrum if you snap his bread stick in two before putting it in the bowl, or if you ask him to take off his shoes, or ask him to wash his hands...
<mungbean> or if you speak "DADDY STOP TALKING"
<mungbean> warning : don't read the ridiculous comments on teh article
<shauno> that's becoming common sense on the internet in general :/
<popey> hmm
<popey> i dont think we've ever really suffered with tantrums
<popey> maybe I'm blotting that out
<mungbean> wow
<mungbean> screaming like a banshee for 20mins
<popey> they're 9 and 6 now so that was ages ago
<mungbean> trashing the bedroom
<popey> nope, never had that
<popey> nope
<bigcalm> Next door has a tantrum prone child. It's quite off putting
<popey> same here
<mungbean> you can see a tantrum rising up
<popey> you can hear him in the morning
<mungbean> but if you give in , you become a victim
<popey> it helps that my wife has been looking after children for years before we had ours
<mungbean> massive tantrum last night because we wanted him to clean his teeth
<mungbean> i think its personality
<popey> how old?
<mungbean> 3
<mungbean> they started at 2
<mungbean> he is stubborn, so are we
<mungbean> he won't win
<mungbean> because if he did, his demands would escalate
<mungbean> it's like negotiating with a terrorist
<popey> we used to use the naughty step
<popey> worked well, calmed them down usually
<mungbean> there's a place for it
<popey> yeah, not often
<mungbean> generally toddlers sense that you want to do something on time
<mungbean> get out of the house etc
<mungbean> supermarkets are classic for it
<mungbean> other people come up and say, do you think he's lost?
<mungbean> 90% of the time he's lovely though
<Laney> stoopid sun, come back
<mungbean> i stole it
<Laney> asbestos hands
<bigcalm> I'm usually quite lazy about my shaving habits. But should I make an effort for my new passport photos?
<SuperMatt> I can't remember when it was I last shaved
<SuperMatt> not that you can actually see any beard
<SuperMatt> stupid genes
<bigcalm> SuperMatt: how old are you?
<SuperMatt> 28
<bigcalm> Oh
<MooDoo> 28?  that old ;)
<bigcalm> This is what I looked like at 28 http://www.flickr.com/photos/bigcuthy/2749634110/in/set-72157606644018228
<SuperMatt> tell you what, I won't shave before the meet on thursday and y'all can see how terrible my beard growing prowess really is
<davmor2> bigcalm: I love the jedi look
<popey> disappointed you didn't do a hitler tashe after http://www.flickr.com/photos/bigcuthy/2749635478/in/set-72157606644018228/
<popey> I might go goatee next week
<bigcalm> popey: it wouldn't have shown up. When I broke my nose, I also split my upper lip in two. Big scar down my nose stops things from growing
<bigcalm> Haha
<AlanBell> popey: monkeytail all the way
<popey> hah
<AlanBell> raring ringtail
<popey> ooh, french have legalised same sex marriage and adoption
<popey> \o/
<bigcalm> \o/
 * AlanBell decides to get adopted
<popey> ooh, good idea
<popey> a couple of rich sugar daddies
<bigcalm> Heh
<SuperMatt> shame the french refuse to legalise being another race
<popey> que?
<SuperMatt> oh, I just think the french are quite racist
<BigRedS> hahaha
<popey> gosh
 * BigRedS mulls the possible irony
<popey> indeed
<SuperMatt> I know it's a bit of a generalisation
<BigRedS> it's also sort-of what you're criticising them for
<SuperMatt> I know!
<SuperMatt> well, I'm against their anti-headscarf laws
<Myrtti> iihhhhh â¥ http://www.flickr.com/photos/gemmacorrell/8499889901/
<diplo> Afternoon all
<bigcalm> Myrtti: that's sweet
<Pendulum> Myrtti: awww :)
<SuperMatt> wooooo, I finally have my bind views replicating!
<davmor2> popey: better still a couple of rich sugar mommies
<popey> I'm happy to accept the horrid imbalance that means two guys will likely earn more in this hypothetical situation
<bigcalm> davmor2: popey might prefer sugar daddies
<MooDoo> what?  lol coming in halfway through a conversation again lol
<davmor2> popey: but you are a lot less likely to have one of them fancy you in my scenario :)
<Laney> O_O
<bigcalm> The topic may have strayed a little?
<Laney> HOW BOUT THAT UNITY!
<bigcalm> Tis a wondrous thing
<davmor2> bigcalm: how are you getting on with it now as a day to day system?
<AlanBell> I should totally try it again
<bigcalm> davmor2: fine on my 3 monitor workstation. Still a little iffy on my laptop though
<AlanBell> all the new 13.04 hotness should be in place now I guess
<BigRedS> I still dislike it pinching alt
<bigcalm> Only left alt though
<BigRedS> yeah, but that's the one I use
<BigRedS> alt+arrow keys
<bigcalm> :)
<AlanBell> I haven't used virtualbox for a while, I might be able to cope with the HUD now
<davmor2> BigRedS: it doesn't.  You just need to keep alt presses
<davmor2> pressed even
<BigRedS> davmor2: yeah, I think I worked that out before. But I'm apparently not capable of using a keyboard properly :)
<BigRedS> I've so far resuisted the urge to remap the hud to some other key, but I think I will in the not too distant future
<AlanBell> it was only when the host grabs it from a virtualised guest OS that I got annoyed with it
<BigRedS> I've still not used the hud intentionallyu
<bigcalm> davmor2: what's the firefox plugin to record and playback web page interactions?
<BigRedS> anyway, hometime! :)
<bigcalm> Don't seem to have it installed on this machine
<AlanBell> the firefox hud integration is kinda cool, I wrote a thing for OpenERP to expose the menu options to the HUD
<davmor2> bigcalm: say what now?
<bigcalm> davmor2: Selenium, thanks
<davmor2> bigcalm: ah right so simple selenium testdriver  or sst is the one we use you'll find it on LP
<davmor2> bigcalm: that is the one where you use python to code with
<ging> popey: the reason was there was a script that tested test script i needed to run that connects to test machines via ssh and then tries to connect to connect to the other various test machines but the script was not built for ubuntu, i make it work with keys in the end
<ali1234> http://jsfiddle.net/NgDhy/21/ ... getting somewhere
<ukbeast> anyone on ubunyu 13.04 beta2?
<AlanBell> ukbeast: yeah
<AlanBell> or on a fully updated 13.04
<kvarley-phone> I got a shirt from the Ubuntu shop, ripped open the plastic bag it was in, tried it on and it doesn't fit. Can I return it? The FAQ says they must be as new and in original packaging.
<Laney> i doubt a plastic bag counts for those purposes
<kvarley-phone> Laney: OK, thanks :)
<mungbean> kvarley-phone: too big or small?
<kvarley-phone> mungbean: small, I went off the chest size but its too tight on my arms
<mungbean> We detected a login attempt with valid password to your Yahoo! account
<mungbean> from Turkey :-|
<shauno> nice holiday?
<mungbean> had 9 chars , letters and numbers]
<mungbean> with diificult secret questions
<mungbean> something suspcious
<mungbean> even more strange was that it was from a mobile device in turkey
<shauno> or something masquerading as a mobile device, for various reasons
<diddledan> geoip lookups may have been flawed
<mungbean> however they logged in , and then went to mail
<mungbean> i haven't logged in to yahoo for weeks
<mungbean> and haven't looked at mail in > 2 yrs
<mungbean> i use it for flickr
<mungbean> and while i was in a meeting
<mungbean> from 78.180.61.94
<shauno> oh it's worth changing your password for, etc
<mungbean> oh for sure
<mungbean> but it's all a bit weird
<shauno> just saying that not all 'mobile devices' really are.  get_iplayer calls itself a mobile device so that it gets mp4 instead of flash, for instance
<shauno> it's also a free pass for a lot of capatcha schemes
<mungbean> true
<diddledan> don't you love when geeks get involved in naming:
<diddledan> netname:        TurkTelekom
<diddledan> descr:          TT ADSL-TTnet_dynamic_gay
<mungbean> 	16:07	Browser	 Mail Access	Turkey
<mungbean> 		16:07	Yahoo! Mobile	 Logged In	Turkey
<mungbean> better check what app i have installed on my phone
<mungbean> if its official flickr one
<mungbean> another meerkat on the way \o/
<brobostigon> lol
<popey> mungbean: where did the notification from from?
<mungbean> popey: yahoo
<mungbean> they emailed me on my alternative adress
<mungbean> kind of "just checking but this might not be you"
<Laney> Click this link and enter your credit card number to reset your password
<mungbean> lol no it was genuine yahoo
<mungbean> and you can see login history on the yahoo site
<Laney> yahoÈ¯.com
 * Laney stops trolling :P
<brobostigon> yahwoooo.com
<mungbean> maybe they were checking my mail for twitter/other subs
<mungbean> just got the local freecycle i never realised i had 900 messages from
<zleap> so are we going tobe able to get cd's of 13.04
<Laney> https://shop.canonical.com/product_info.php?products_id=1076 these look nice
<diddledan> zleap, afaik canonical won't be selling cd/dvds of the release, but you may be able to get copies from third parties
<diddledan> such as linuxemporium if they still provide that service
<popey> zleap: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/loco-contacts/2013-April/006307.html
<popey> "no"
<zleap> ok thanks
<Daviey> who still uses cd's anyway?
<zleap> cds dvds
<zleap> Daviey, i have a nice collection of ubuntu cd's here
<zleap> even 4.04 (not complete 2 cd set) but its a wallet and cd
<zleap> i think its 4.04 anyway
 * zleap has a pc with no cd or dvd drive its a pain sometimes
<zleap> blank dvd x50 = cost of 1x 4gb or 8gb flash disk
<directhex> there was no 4.04
<directhex> 4.10?
<zleap> yeah that then sorry
<zleap> 2 cds in a wallet
<zleap> anyway i am off
<zleap> nte
<zleap> nite
<ali1234> i think i finally nailed the sharing button thing: http://dev.drumoff.tv/share/
<ali1234> now i just need to figure out where to put them on the page
#ubuntu-uk 2013-04-24
<diplo> Morning all
<popey> morning
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<brobostigon> morning bigcalm :)
<JamesTait> Good morning all, happy Pig In A Blanket Day!
<TheOpenSourcerer> Isn't that prunes wrapped in bacon?
<popey> http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/geary-a-beautiful-modern-open-source-email-client
<popey> not looking good
<TheOpenSourcerer> Oh no - that Devils on horseback - silly me.
<TheOpenSourcerer> I saw Bytemark trying to pimp it up the other day.
<popey> yeah
<popey> kinda surprised
<TheOpenSourcerer> Trouble is - I think they are right. TB is going nowhere fast and getting slower and doggier by the day IMHO. And I still like an integrated email/calendar client
<Myrtti> I might sound silly and naive but maybe it would have been better if they had put a lower amount as the main goal and then added stretch goals up to 150k
<Myrtti> coz that's what I'm gonna do with my kickstarter when I finally do it
<bigcalm> Myrtti: will your kickstarter involve wool? :)
<Myrtti> yes.
<bigcalm> \o/
<Myrtti> and nisbets catalogue
<Myrtti> (ie. I need a big pot or two, about Â£110 each etc.)
<Myrtti> I should call the local Tesco Optician if they'd be able to fix my glasses somehow so I can survive until I can go visit them
<Myrtti> but I'm procrastinating, because telephone calls
<bigcalm> :(
<Myrtti> nature had it's revenge: I mowed the lawn, the lawn mower ate my glasses.
<bigcalm> Oh my
<Myrtti> or I accidentally stomped on them after I accidentally dropped them because I didn't see them with my protective goggles on instead of my glasses. Either way, one arm is now bent and cracked and the lens fell of because the nylon thread holding it on the frame snapped
<bigcalm> I do hope they can fix them for you
<Myrtti> cor I hate telephone calls
<czajkowski> aloha
<Laney> ahoy
<czajkowski> matie
<bigcalm> Hello czajkowski
<czajkowski> ello how are we all doing this fine sunny day
<SuperMatt> RAGING AT BIND
<bigcalm> Oh, so you're the one who stole my sun
<Laney> yeah it's a bit cloudy
<SuperMatt> I did no such thing
<SuperMatt> when it gets sunny in this office, we have to close the blinds or the sun reflects off all the other windows around the place and actually blinds us
<bigcalm> I should shave so that I can get my passport photos done. But, apathy
<Myrtti> sounds like my avoidance of calling Tesco
<bigcalm> Myrtti: well, I should also be working :D
<bigcalm> Myrtti: I'm guessing that you are wearing a spare pair?
<Myrtti> nope
<Myrtti> my spare pair is tinted to sunglasses and it's not that sunny
<Myrtti> I can manage fine without glasses, I just get light headed and towards the end of the day headachy
<bigcalm> Aha
<bigcalm> I only use glasses for close work and driving. Otherwise I get headaches. I would fall over if I tried to walk around with them on
<Myrtti> I'd describe how my right eye feels like if I have to strain it trying to do something precise, but it's too early in the day
<popey> i like that I have enough face fuzz that i can play with my chinhair while pondering difficult problems
<popey> this pleases me
<bigcalm> Oh god. Now I'm imagining you doing that
<Myrtti> I'm not saying what I'm imagining
<Myrtti> nothing dirty, mind you
<shauno> handlebar moustache.
<shauno> any time someone wants to play with the fuzz, all I can picture is a whacky eccentric twirling 'tache.
<Myrtti> sounds like Xalior
<bigcalm> Indeed
<MooDoo> hello all
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo
<bigcalm> Can you apply CSS rules to match part of an element id?
<MooDoo> brobostigon: hi
 * popey wonders when AlanBell is expecting his parallela board
<AlanBell> popey: I know no more than you do at this point
<AlanBell> I am not sure quite how exciting they are going to be really
<AlanBell> we should be getting a pair of 16 core boards, so 2 arm cores, plus 16 epiphany cores
<AlanBell> I have no idea if we will be able to use the epiphany cores for anything interesting
<popey> http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/pear-linux-efficient-modern-and-free-operating-system-what-s-else
<popey> everyone's doing the crowdsourcing thing
<popey> 1000â¬ and you get a couple of T-Shirts and DVDs.
<MooDoo> popey: it's a good way of getting money :)
<popey> http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/geary-a-beautiful-modern-open-source-email-client   # it clearly isnt
<popey> for software
<MooDoo> hmmm and a mail client....
<Nafallo> popey: maybe people tried the current version and didn't see a future? :-)
<Nafallo> oh dear, now I spoke about myself in third person again...
<MooDoo> or decided that "another mail client???"
<SuperMatt> I think it has a future, and I'd like to see the future
<SuperMatt> shame not many other people do :(
<Nafallo> nah, it's not YAMC... but I don't want what they try to offer :-)
<popey> if they made a QML frontend I'd be interested
<SuperMatt> well they could do, if they get the funding ;)
<Nafallo> thunderbird has so much extra stuff I actually use... I tried geary 0.3 for ~a month, and it's not for me. I kept going back to Thunderbird to actually get stuff done.
<SuperMatt> I'm using thunderbird now because it has a OKish calendar
<SuperMatt> but as a pure email client, geary is top notch
<Nafallo> speaking of calendar... I need to export my next trip from linkedin.
<Nafallo> s/linkedin/tripit/
<popey> SuperMatt: its not on their roadmap
<SuperMatt> very true
 * AlanBell glares at the Unity alt-tab once again
<AlanBell> alt+` then right cursor moves to the next application, not the next window
<AlanBell> alt+` then down cursor then right cursor does
<AlanBell> alt+tab then wait then right does let you window switch
<MooDoo> Nafallo: sorry I can't see any point in paying for another mail client that does pretty mmuch what everyother one does ....sorrry to say
<czajkowski> you know who you miss around here, gord miss him and his crazy odd candy
<czajkowski> random I know but still
<popey> heh, i was thinking that when I saw his post pop up on G+
<czajkowski> aye
<bigcalm> The work place days miss him too
<Nafallo> MooDoo: huh?
<Nafallo> MooDoo: missdirected?
<funkyHat> Looks like geary's design mockups were just screenshots of Mail.app
 * Myrtti raises an eyebrow
<popey> hah
<jacobw> What happened to him?
<popey> he left canonical for pastures new
<jacobw> These pastures new have a lot to answer for.
<Laney> the cud is good
<popey> http://gifdistrict.tumblr.com/post/15597009342/the-grass-is-always-greener-on-the-other-side
<MooDoo> :)
<MooDoo> everyone must be in ubuntu-touch it's so quiet in here lol
<directhex> OOGA BOOGA
<SuperMatt> I'm not
<SuperMatt> I was just using my mystical sysadmin powers to control Bind9 and bend it to my will
<MooDoo> lol
<SuperMatt> I've been working three days solid on learning more about bind, setting up a test environment that matches live, configuring bind to the point where it's almost unrecognisable to the way we had it, and then testing upgrade and downgrade procedures
<SuperMatt> basically DNS is not something I want to mess with
<MooDoo> SuperMatt: DNS is a BIND ;) stay well away from it ;)
<SuperMatt> can't
<SuperMatt> the good news is, all my trial, improvement, and testing has lead me to a set of config files which, when dumped on the live servers, have a better chance of not failing than if I tried doing it by hand
<MooDoo> well that's good then....
<SuperMatt> I predict about a 90% chance of success
<SuperMatt> there's still a 10% chance I've over looked something, or I'm going miss something during my update procedure
<BigRedS> SuperMatt: heh, I'm spending today fixing that 10% I overlooked in my mail server upgrade script :)
<BigRedS> well, some of it. There will, no doubt, be more
<SuperMatt> well my boss told me it should only take me a day to get this thing going... Oh how wrong he was
<SuperMatt> I decided not to leave anything to chance
<SuperMatt> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=5cIlr-LcFsI
<redtape> So about manyana, and the Raring release .. has anybody got anything to tell everyone about what is going on ? Watching the planetubuntu video , it seems popey, that most ppl are concentrating on 14.04 now anyway ..
<redtape> and mobile platform etc ..
<SuperMatt> well, the thing about concentrating on 14.04 is that there was a lot of than in 13.04 too
<redtape> " a lot of than " ?
<SuperMatt> basically, when an LTS is released, goals are set for the next LTS, and the normal releases inbetween match various goals a long the way
<SuperMatt> "a lot of that"
<redtape> k
<SuperMatt> raring *will* be released tomorrow. I've no doubt it has been "ready" for a week now, just with a few bugs to fix
<redtape> I heard that the DVD's are stopping .. does that include 13.04 ?
<SuperMatt> where on earth did you hear that?]
<SuperMatt> there is absolutely no reason to stop the dvds
<redtape> G+
<popey> we're not making CDs/DVDs for LoCos
<SuperMatt> this
<popey> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/loco-contacts/2013-April/006307.html
<redtape> ok .. sio it's 14.04 that I'll get my DVD .. ok
<SuperMatt> not that you really need one
<redtape> others do though ..
<SuperMatt> yes, true
<redtape> unless ubuntu is truely virtual in our hearts ...
 * redtape plays sml. violin.
<SuperMatt> a smelly violin?
<redtape> sml .. small
<SuperMatt> I know ;)
<redtape> lrg is large.
<SuperMatt> I tend just to type those words in full
<redtape> you are right .. althou I think Sml & Lrg is more explanatory.
<MooDoo> thanks popey
 * redtape requires cupcakes ... http://www.flickr.com/photos/cbott/5120083226/
<MooDoo> redtape: i want some :D
<redtape> the vlc icon can't have one though ... ;)
<MooDoo> heh
<redtape> top right in the image
<MooDoo> I did have to look twice to get what you meant
<redtape> OT has anyone tried vlc on Win 8 yet .. or is that still in thepipeline ?
<MooDoo> yes i've tried it, seems ok but in desktop mode
<redtape> oh ok
<MooDoo> then I removed windows 8 as it's pants lol
<kvarley> Anybody know what support for the HP Pavilion Chromebook is like running Ubuntu?
<redtape> pants pant pants .. agreed .
<redtape> I want to get ABBYY Lingvo working on Ubuntu using stardict .. it has it here .. http://brutalblog.wordpress.com/2007/12/20/1/  but I don't have the time . they only do 5 lang.s anyway :(
<redtape> Can anybody edit this page ? https://help.ubuntu.com/community/KickstarterGames
<redtape> or this one .... https://help.ubuntu.com/community/OngoingCrowdfunding
<SuperMatt> cripes, there's 60 people coming to the release party tomorrow
<MooDoo> redtape: lol can't even login lol just trying
<redtape> ok . dont mean to cause a fuss ..
<directhex> auth is indeed screwed
<czajkowski> yes logged in
<czajkowski> bit slower than expected but can log in and see someone else has timedout 5 mins ago
<redtape> SuperMatt: Is this the one in Laaaandon ?
<SuperMatt> yup
<MooDoo> I'll give up on loggin in then
<SuperMatt> though it looks like someone has put themself down as bringing 30 other people
<redtape> heavies ...
<SuperMatt> it could be a ruse
<MooDoo> shame I'm too far away
<redtape> someone's not happy with the rotating circle thing :)
<Laney> nah get on your bike now and you'll be there on time
<MooDoo> Laney: I've got a motor bike
<MooDoo> :)
<SuperMatt> I'll be there once I'm done with a work drink
<Laney> ah, simple then
<SuperMatt> which starts at 4
<SuperMatt> I'm just hoping someone saves me a t-shirt
<redtape> t-shirt ? is there a online shop ?
<popey> redtape: yes, I am able to login and edit those pages
<ahayzen> just to confirm the release party starts at 8pm BST and 7pm UTC?
 * redtape facepalm .. store.ubuntu is the shop !
<MooDoo> lol
<SuperMatt> says 19:00 UTC
<popey> it says 19:00 UTC on the page
<SuperMatt> I really don't know what that is in real money
<popey> date -u
<popey> Wed Apr 24 15:25:30 BST 2013
<popey> ^^ date
<popey> Wed Apr 24 14:25:35 UTC 2013
<popey> ^ date -u
<ahayzen> so thats 8pm for us :)
<popey> ya
<ahayzen> awesome
<popey> 8pm for everyone in fact
<redtape> I'll be eatying sugary mint's after then ,, then.
<SuperMatt> I don't for a moment think that there won't be people at the party before 6 ;)
<redtape>       ... there was a mention of another Hangover Friday .. ?
<SuperMatt> I don't know what you mean by that
<popey> hmm, party tomorrow, beer train friday, flying to usa saturday
<popey> this will go well
<SuperMatt> no it won't
<SuperMatt> don't lie to yourself
<Laney> ... might get some sleep on the flight ...
 * popey checks to make sure Laney isn't on the same flight
<redtape> popey, so yur packed then ?
<popey> nope
<czajkowski> popey: pack today!
<redtape> hahaha.
<Laney> UA somethingorother at sometimeorother
<popey> UA!? eww
<Laney> yeah :(
<czajkowski> ugh
<Laney> I tried to get BA but I was too slow and the price went up
<popey> oops
<Laney> loads of other Canonical gits got in there before me
<popey> \o/
<czajkowski> virgin to the staes is very nice espeically if you get upstairs
<popey> â canonical git
<Laney> upstairs?!?!?!?!
<Laney> never been on a flight with one of those
 * czajkowski never get to sprint 
<czajkowski> Laney: rather nice, very quiet and you get dibs on everything first
<czajkowski> was the same price as Ba last time I went to UDS
<Laney> bonus
<popey> haha, 12 of us on the same flight!
<directhex> virgin atlantic is nice
<Laney> I was mainly annoyed because I couldn't get the avios
<directhex> but i disagree about upstairs. upstairs means 747, and virgin's 747s need a refurbed entertainment system stat
<Laney> unless there is some hax that I don't know of to get it out of UA
<directhex> avios is pointless. they have, like, 3 seats a month that you can use the points on. no avios flights to vienna until october, for example
<popey> blimey, and another 20 odd on the virgin flight
<Laney> yeah but upgrades and stuff
<TREllis> directhex: +1 plus a shed load of tax you have to pay, I've seen flights cheaper via paying cash than rather using Avios. Not sure how that worked out.
<redtape> OT |  So  it looks like most of the dev team are in the air this week .. stay outta redneck country people ::: http://youtu.be/GSw9sjqYK_I?t=2m11s bye.
<jpds> Laney: UA?
<Laney> united
<jpds> Laney: Yeah, that would be because UA is part of StarAlliance and not OneWorld which BA is part of.
<Laney> yeah
<Laney> you can transfer through brokers I understand but not without them taking a chunk
<AlanBell> ahayzen: popey the start time on that is rather fuzzy, I think some people will be there from 18:30ish local time
<popey> wise
<AlanBell> and loco directory doesn't seem to handle timezones correctly
<AlanBell> I set the timezone of the team to Europe/London and it asks for the event time in local time, but displays it as UTC using the local time I put in
<ahayzen> AlanBell, thx ... probably be between 7-8  that I get down there :)
<SuperMatt> I wanna be there from 7, but work will be giving me free drinks from 4. Anything could happen.
<MooDoo> google hangout for virtual visitors ;)
<MooDoo> I'll have my headset and a beer at the ready ;) lol
<AlanBell> MooDoo: that isn't out of the question :)
<SuperMatt> I wouldn't...
<SuperMatt> I wouldn't trust a laptop in a pub which might become unattended every once in a while
<MooDoo> AlanBell: awesome :D
<AlanBell> SuperMatt: MooDoo can look after it from the other end
<AlanBell> MooDoo: shout if you see anyone nick it
<SuperMatt> hurr
<MooDoo> will do ;) unless i'm chatting up another laptop lol
<popey> you can do hangouts from phones these days
<MooDoo> you can :)
<AlanBell> can you initiate them from a phone now?
<MooDoo> you can on my s3
<SuperMatt> wouldn't it be a bit boring someone carrying around their phone all the time?
<popey> yes
 * popey starts a hangout with AlanBell on his phone
<MooDoo> lol
<popey> AlanBell isn't picking up
<popey> â¹
<MooDoo> me actually logged onto his phone to see if he could see the hangout doh"
<czajkowski> aye I do hangouts with J when I'm in ireland on the phone/tablet very handy
<bigcalm> Aww
<MooDoo> :)
 * AlanBell was making coffee
<popey> outrage!
 * popey starts another
<popey> â¹
<popey> well that sucked
<MooDoo> lol
<popey> not because AlanBell was in it
 * redtape was having a whippy icecream :)
<redtape> with 2 flakes \o/
<MooDoo> :)
<MooDoo> popey: why did it suck?
<redtape> in fact they told me that the 2flakes weren't up to scratch ..
<redtape> so they gave me a third .. :)
<redtape> i think that's my ideal job .. flake tester ..
<MooDoo> only the crumbliest flakiest chocolate....la la la  er i think that was a flake advert
<popey> hmm
<bigcalm> Close enough
<redtape> i prefer the one with the cello.
 * AlanBell hung out
<MooDoo> I'll watch it on youtube ;)
<Myrtti> redtape: did you check did they touch the cone or flake with bare fingers?
<redtape> give us the link thou ..
<redtape> no they had plastic gloves .. you dont have a glove fetish do you ?
<Myrtti> redtape: no, but future inlaws sell whippies in Littlehampton riverside and I don't have whippies from anywhere if I don't see how they handle the cone and flake first
 * redtape admits to a flake fetish...
<Myrtti> I've seen more people touching both cone and flake barehanded than not
<AlanBell> MooDoo: the front facing camera on my phone was rubbish, but the rear facing one is OK (but then you can't see the screen
<AlanBell> which is fine really
<redtape> Aaahh .. what doesn't kill ya .. makes you strongerer.
<bigcalm> AlanBell: you didn't want to see popey?
<redtape> his eyes are like lazer bolts !
<AlanBell> I will be seeing the popey in person tomorrow at the release party
<MooDoo> AlanBell: i suppose that's enough ;)
<popey> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V_tZJGniorA#t=3m12s  # I'm famous!
<MooDoo> LOL
<Nafallo> popey: what else is new?
<redtape> popey, yes, stupidrubbish was mentioned on the podcast recently, too .. I have been listening !
<redtape> you need to request phone-ins more though.
<popey> phone ins are hard
<popey> we do phone interviews with people
<popey> but having random people phone us would probably lead to all kinds of issues
<popey> we have considered it in the past
<redtape> ppl have called the number though.
<MooDoo> are you ever going to google hangout a podcast recording for a giggle?
<redtape> no me thnks.
<MooDoo> be interesting to watch it
<popey> people have called the number, but we curate them, because it's a voicemail number
<popey> not a live call in
<popey> there's a few issues with hangouts
<popey> they work for multiple remote people quite well, less so for multiple people in the same room, which is what we do
<popey> tony's net connection is rubbish too
<popey> and it complicates the recording process too, because we have to route the right audio to the right place
<bigcalm> "more hassle than it's worth"
<redtape> MooDoo: none of us can help them .. they are an enterprise unto themselves.
<MooDoo> :)
<popey> its not like we haven't considered these things
<MooDoo> UBUNTU UK LIVE in wolverhampton ;)
<redtape> ooo .   isn't that 'Mick' McCarthy's patch ? tone def isn't he ?
<MooDoo> redtape: I was just reminicing about lug radio live :)
<redtape> gotcha
<redtape> WebUPd8 have a new vidz out .... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PB3oJga1kLQ  " Unity Smart Scopes In Ubuntu 13.04    " .
<redtape> first time I've really got into smart scopes TBH..
 * popey packs up his things to go to Studio A for podcasting
<Myrtti> oo http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-22277084
<redtape> Myrtti: That's only because the beep wants to be definitive arseholes .. they r the best at that.
<Myrtti> er, ok?
<Myrtti> I'm not sure how that follows
<redtape> twiter tweet = beep tweet (tweet of tweets).
<redtape> the beep .. when is it ever 'interactive' anyway ?
<redtape> it's a one way street.
<redtape> rant over.
<Myrtti> ooookkkay
<Myrtti> I still didn't understand but that's fine I suppose, I'm not native
<redtape> still hate the fact they are included in firefox by default.
<jacobw> I like ClaudeTheFascist, stick with that one :)
<MartijnVdS> as long as he sticks to it, the /ignore will as well ;)
<mungbean> http://podcast.ubuntu-uk.org:8000/uupc.mp3 foesmt work
<mungbean> no sounds..
<popey> hmm?
<popey> works for me
<popey> just tried it
<ahayzen> mungbean, try using VLC player...FireFox for me just sits there with no sound
<neuro> ahoy me hearties
<neuro> anyone tried shinken before? it's a nagios-like monitoring platform
<mungbean> never heard of it
<neuro> ok, great feedback! :)
<neuro> (just kidding)
<mungbean> whats yr reqirement
<neuro> to monitor stuff, and when stuff goes wrong, to know about it
<mungbean> http://www.slideshare.net/sihil/winning-the-metrics-battle
<mungbean> friend of mine made this pres
<neuro> i'd normally deploy nagios but i'm just looking at the alternatives before i settle back into my usual routine
<neuro> nice
<neuro> i was about to cry into my laptop about 5 slides in, but then it got interesting
<neuro> ah, rabbitmq, we meet again
<mungbean> he did sa talk at london devops i think was recorded
<dwatkins_> popey: I vaguely remember you talking about a wattage measuring deviceyou interfaced with your server, which model was it please?
<dwatkins_> i.e. to measure house power usage
<redtape> dwatkins: Are you the one from Scotland ?
<popey> dwatkins: currentcost
<dwatkins> thanks popey
<dwatkins> redtape: I'm in Scotland...
<redtape> Where's daftykins .. haven't heard from him in ages ?
<dwatkins> heh, I'm very tempted to get one of those power meters now.
<popey> http://popey.com/house/
<popey> wheee
<dwatkins> popey: superb, I think I found details on getting that up and running with rrdtool, and the devices are on ebay for Â£20, should be a nice little weekend project.
<popey> http://popey.com/~alan/house/scripts/
<popey> ^^ the scripts I use
<dwatkins> ooh, thanks :)
#ubuntu-uk 2013-04-25
<Lucas2b_> What time does the 13.04 comes??
<sebsebseb>  
<SuperMatt> got my precise t-shirt on, bring it on guys!
<MooDoo> hello all
<MooDoo> Is it out yet?  sorry couldn't resist ;)
<AlanBell> !isitout
<lubotu3> No, it is not out yet.
<MooDoo> I was teasing AlanBell ;)
<SuperMatt> lollers
<Laney> Subject: You've just been ousted as the mayor of Canonical Bluefin 5th Floor!
<Laney> czajkowski: YOU
<SuperMatt> hurr
<czajkowski> I know :)
 * Laney gets the train to london
<popey> where sam goes to beavers there's another parent who drops his daughter off there, the mayorship basically flip-flops between me and him constantly
<popey> he found me on twitter too â¨
<czajkowski> lol
<czajkowski> it used to be Lou
<czajkowski> but not seen her
<JamesTait> Good morning all, happy Raring Ringtail Release Day! :-D
<popey> hah
<MooDoo> morning JamesTait
<JamesTait> MooDoo, o/
<popey> AlanBell: what time are we meeting for beer tomorrow?
<popey> also TheOpenSourcerer
<TheOpenSourcerer> Good question popey
<TheOpenSourcerer> I'm planning to just go straight from the office
<AlanBell> I have a childrens party to start first
<TheOpenSourcerer> As it is close. So could meet in the Cobbett whenevr you are ready.
<AlanBell> which consists of turning on a DVD through a projector and walking out before the food starts flying
<TheOpenSourcerer> lol
<TheOpenSourcerer> popey: Will you be in town this evening?
<brobostigon> good morning eveyrone,
<BigRedS> Goood Morning!
<MooDoo> morning brobostigon BigRedS
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo
<BigRedS> Good MooDoo
<BigRedS> er
<BigRedS> "morning" apparently doesn't tab-complete
<MooDoo> lol
<BigRedS> I _really_ need a tab key that's wired into my brain
<directhex> it does it someone here helpfully uses /nick morning for you
<BigRedS> Haha, I generally try to tab-complete everything. I did that with my password first thing this morning...
<MooDoo> thing is though every one will start referring to you as big<tab> ;) lol
<BigRedS> Haha, but that's generally bigcalm :)
<knightwise> ok , tried out bittorrent sync
<knightwise> looks good so far
<knightwise> (osx to osx) next up i'm gonna give the linux client a try
<knightwise> the cool thing is.. you can run this on a headless server too (i think)
<popey> indeed you can
<popey> I ran it on my phone
<SuperMatt> I'm gonna try setting up a network with my buddies, see if we can each set aside enough space for each other
<SuperMatt> I'm assuming stuff can remain encrypted on the other end
<popey> you can drop encrypted files in it
<SuperMatt> ah right
<SuperMatt> already had to post over on /r/ubuntu to let people know they shouldn't be posting links to ISOs yet -.-
<SuperMatt> I think I should make a note to myself to remember to make similar posts on every release mornign
<BigRedS> Personally,  were I canonical I'd just redirect all requests for *.iso to something that never resolves
<knightwise> popey: there is a mobile client too ? (or are you just running ubuntu touch on your phone)
<Myrtti> http://beeroclock.in/
<MooDoo> Myrtti: yay
<popey> knightwise: yes, i ran it on ubuntu touch
<knightwise> cool :)
<knightwise> if its reliable enough I think i'll be ditching Dropbox pretty soon.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Sparkleshare is rather cool - just git and clients.
<BigRedS> sparkleshare's brilliant
<BigRedS> Actually, that's probably the other piece of software that's yet to annoy me
 * AlanBell likes sparkleshare
<AlanBell> bittorrent sync will probably be quite cool, there was a somewhat clue-lacking bbc article about it yesterday
<AlanBell> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-22281941
<knightwise> I played around with owncloud but it took me forever to get it working over https
<BigRedS> A clue-lacking article from the BBC? Never!
<SuperMatt> knightwise: didn't take me long at all :/
<SuperMatt> I'm running it now without issue
<celesteh> Hi, I'm wondering what files are automatically invoked in gnome login?  I want to start a process automatically every time I login to the desktop.
<SuperMatt> find the application called "startup applications"
<SuperMatt> there you can set what starts up
<celesteh> Thanks SuperMatt!
<AlanBell> to be completely fair to the BBC they appear to have cornered a clueless analyst and got lots of quotes
<redtape> afternoon peeps.
<knightwise> SuperMatt: you did a standard 5 install ?
<SuperMatt> not quite, actually
<SuperMatt> I have nginx installed
<knightwise> SuperMatt: do you have a good tutorial on how to get it from http to https  ?
<knightwise> nginx ?
<SuperMatt> yeah, it's just a faster webserver than apache
<knightwise> aha
<SuperMatt> so I'm not really much help to you here
<BigRedS> surely there's a billion https-in-nginx tutorials?
<SuperMatt> sure, but I can't help with apache ;)
<SuperMatt> and tbh, I'm weary of suggesting to anyone how to configure apache for https because I just don't know how their server is configured and I could messs stuff up if I'm not careful
<BigRedS> It's pretty simple to configure Apache for SSL, assuming the've already got the cleartext vhost working
<BigRedS> just copy the vhost, make it :443 and add the SSL* lines
<SuperMatt> yup yup, I know
<SuperMatt> and in fact, on ubuntu you can just do a2ensite default-ssl
<BigRedS> assuming you're serving out of /var/www
<SuperMatt> very true
<BigRedS> and want snakeoil certs
<SuperMatt> but these are the things that I don't know about *other peoples* hosting, so I don't ever want to guess
<BigRedS> yeah, but if they know which vhost they want to sslify, you can just have them copy that.It's very hard to break anything that way
<BigRedS> possible, sure
<SuperMatt> I'm just quite weary about making suggestions unless I have a definitive answer
<shrik> hello all, is anybody able to upgrade to raring via do-release-upgrade?
<popey> yes if you use -d, but after release you wont need that
<popey> i.e. it's not been released yet
<shrik> ah okay, thanks
<brobostigon> anyone know of an android git client, that can push to a repo, aswell as pull. ?
 * czajkowski stabs Laney 
<Laney> omg
<Laney> office busy?
<shrik> brobostigon: have you looked at Terminal IDE? https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.spartacusrex.spartacuside
<czajkowski> Laney: aye
<brobostigon> shrik: tried it, doesnt work, get https errors when i try and pull/clone, and also the fixes in their bug tracker dont help.
<BigRedS_> shrik: I did it on friday
<shrik> sorry about that, it works alright for me, but I only played around with it for a bit, and didn't try the git part!
<brobostigon> shrik: everything else works fine, except for that bit, which is unfortunate, because it worked well.
<shrik> that's unfortunate :( it wasn't an issue for me because I ssh into a vps for any dev stuff..
<shrik> I'm curious though, what's your use-case? Just trying out stuff?
<brobostigon> shrik: my use case, is being able to do basic edits on my nexus7, which i have connected to and arduino, which outputs to that nexus7, so i can make direct code adjustments and push to the arduino.
<JamesTait> !isitout
<lubotu3> No, it is not out yet.
<JamesTait> Time for lunch then.
<shrik> even busybox doesn't support it, I'm lost then..
 * czajkowski slaps JamesTait you should know better
<JamesTait> trollolololol
<Nafallo> JamesTait: I wouldn't leave... almost there :-)
<JamesTait> Nafallo, but I'm getting hungry, and I have a minetest issue to work out before my boys find out that I broke it and disown me.
<brobostigon> minetest :)
<JamesTait> And workrave is telling me I need a rest break.
<JamesTait> It's probably right.
<Nafallo> JamesTait: fine fine... but you might miss it :-)
<JamesTait> I might... but I've already been spreading the good word, so it's not the end of the world.
<ali1234> PHP Parse error:  syntax error, unexpected ',', expecting T_PAAMAYIM_NEKUDOTAYIM
<ali1234> wat
<shauno> yummy, hebrew error messages.  that'll make your day interesting
<shauno> http://php.net/manual/en/language.oop5.paamayim-nekudotayim.php
<BigRedS_> that's one of the common complaints about php that I don't think is such a big problem
<SuperMatt> !isitoutyet
<lubotu3> No, it is not out yet.
<SuperMatt> c'mon guys, it's 13.04
<BigRedS_> Oh, I've still got that twitter thingy
<MooDoo> we're not moaning as it's not released yet are we?
<SuperMatt> weeeell, the twitter feed said it might be out at 13:04 :P
<SuperMatt> I don't normally moan
<MooDoo> sheesh ;)
<MooDoo> as per the wonder id software, it's done when it's done ;)
<BigRedS_> nah, there is an actual release date here, it's not like Debian
<SuperMatt> there it is!
<popey> it is now â»
<SuperMatt> thanks!
<BigRedS_> hm? It just released?
<Nafallo> possibly :-)
<SuperMatt> now we have to wait for marky-boy's S announcement
<popey> "marky-boy"?
<popey> blimey
<BigRedS_> you *are* familiar
<MooDoo> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-announce/2013-April/thread.html
<MooDoo> there you go
<SuperMatt> never met the chap
<SuperMatt> MooDoo: nothing about S in there
<MooDoo> SuperMatt: sorry missed the S in your statement thought it was just a typo....i'll shut up now
<BigRedS_> so does this mean Canonical are all getting to the pub in about 30 min?
<SuperMatt> doubt it
<SuperMatt> there's still a chance of critical bugs
<BigRedS_> there's *always* a chance of critical bugs
<BigRedS_> but now fixes are expected to be slower, 'cause it's not an rc any more
<SuperMatt> just slammed down $46 on the donation page
<Nafallo> doubt it, there will be champagne in the kitchen ;-)
<Nafallo> unless that tradition has died down... popey? :-)
<popey> I cant be in the office today
<popey> also am working till 10pm
<Nafallo> bah
<Nafallo> okay
<SuperMatt> so you're not going to be at the release party tonight popey?
<popey> nope
<SuperMatt> well darn
<knightwise>  hmm.. new functions in Raring look promising
<shrik> it's out.
<JamesTait> I won't be enjoying champagne in the office or beer in London today either, popey.  I won't be working until 10pm though, so I pity you there.
<JamesTait> I'll just have a quiet shandy by myself after the kids have gone to bed.
<bigcalm> !isitoutyet
<lubotu3> YES! It's out!
 * BigRedS_ ponders the possibility of a rowdy shandy
<bigcalm> Ooh. To the laptop!
<Laney> just heard "ICT is the new sexy" on radio 4
<BigRedS> I've been waiting for that to be the case for _years_
<Laney> it was in a piece about sexism unfortunately
<JamesTait> So, Snappy Serval, anyone?
<bigcalm> Strike another possible name from the list
<Nafallo> JamesTait: +1
<JamesTait> The sabdfl announcement is always such an education - I don't know where he finds out about the animals he chooses, but I've usually never heard of them.
<Nafallo> JamesTait: warthog? :-)
<shauno> breezy wasn't too challenging either
<shauno> at least I can pronounce this one though
<JamesTait> I did say usually. ;)
<bigcalm> Startup Disk Creator is crashing while trying to write the new iso to an sd card. Not too helpful that
<bigcalm> I have no idea if it has finished creating the disk or not
<popey> bug  perhaps
 * bigcalm tries for a 3rd time
<bigcalm> This time allowing it to create 1gb of user space
<bigcalm> This time it has closed the util but not shown a crash dialogue
<bigcalm> Maybe it worked
<Laney> yeah we should do some work on that tool
<shrik> where was snappy serval announced?
<Laney> slim shady
<JamesTait> shrik, I'm not aware that it has been.
<JamesTait> shrik, I just made it up.
<shrik> haha ok
<Myrtti> slippery snail
<daubers> hmmm.. raring is the first ubuntu release I haven't been running a pre-release of for a good few years now
<shrik> slumbering sloth
<shrik> that's the polar opposite of a snappy serval, i guess
<MooDoo> saucy salamader, they get worse lol
<Laney> sounds nice to me at first reading
<Laney> better than oneiric
<Laney> better than gutsy intrepid quantal
<MooDoo> it'll be teasing toad next or tempestuous terrapin
<shrik> there's already a http://www.saucysalamander.com/
<Nafallo> perfect place for a release party ;-)
<ali1234> will it really be 13.10, or will there be another push for a rolling release?
<Nafallo> yes
<Myrtti> to which question ;-)
<bashrc> I hope the graphics card support in 13.04 is better than 12.10
<ahayzen> Quantal's startup disk creator is broken?!
 * ahayzen tries the KDE version
<ali1234> i take that to mean rolling release proponents will make another push which will be denied by people with sense
<mungbean> KDE..making ugly desktops since 4.0
<ali1234> you can make it look decent actually
<ahayzen> mungbean, just the app not the desktop :) ... anyone else had the usb creator in Quantal crash or just me?
<ali1234> there's a theme that apes google chrome and looks quite nice
<bashrc> What's ugly about KDE?
<ali1234> oxygen, the default icon set, the default fonts (especially hinting)
<ali1234> the toolbars and panels everywhere on everything are annoying too
<ali1234> they overuse font sizes and bold and italic text everywhere too
<ali1234> also nothing ever lines up properly... KDE cannot vertically align things consistently
<ahayzen> ...sounds like someone doesn't like KDE :P
<ali1234> i do like KDE actually
<mungbean> yeah, toolbars, widgets, menus, huge areas of white/chrome space
<ali1234> these problems are all papercuts really
<ali1234> they can be fixed it just takes a loooooooong time when you start from defaults
<ali1234> and a lot of them are trivial and stupid stuff that should have been fixed
<ali1234> like the broken clock
<ahayzen> ali1234 wht do u use as ur default DE+shell?
<ali1234> https://plus.google.com/u/0/117474986382867317779/posts/GaQ9QVwrJ6D
<ali1234> ahayzen: i use gnome-panel/gtk3
<ahayzen> nice :)
<ali1234> oh and compiz... because it is still the only wm with working zoom
<ali1234> the ultimately configurable KDE cannot bind shortcuts to the mouse
<ali1234> so you can't bind any WM function to mouse buttons
 * ahayzen wonders if MIR will have zooming abilities
<ali1234> so you can't zoom with the mouse
<ali1234> this is a big problem with KDEs "code reuse everywhere" thing
<ali1234> a lot of times it's not appropriate to reuse it, but they do anyway because they can
<ali1234> like how if you open a text file in the file browser, it loads in an embedded text editor in the file browser
<ali1234> i have no idea if it still does that but it used to annoy the hell out of me
<ali1234> especially since file browser == web browser
<directhex> i have a new graphics card
<mungbean> how do i decrypt a file encrypted with openssl enc
 * Laney stabs twitpic
<ali1234> mungbean: you encode it with the decryption key - there is no "decode" as such
<ahayzen> yey the usb-creator-kde has worked :)
<Laney> putting my picture up sideways
<Laney> and refusing to save the manual rotation
<ali1234> s/code/crypt/g
<mungbean> ah, use -d command
<mungbean> what's the gnome password editor please?
<ali1234> seahorse
<mungbean> chars
<mungbean> (not running running but someone's given me their file)
<mungbean> hmm is there another one, like revelation?
<mungbean> FPM?
<mungbean> ah found a tool to convert fpm to keepassx
<neuro> saucy
<neuro> really
<neuro> :)
<MooDoo> my thoughts exactly.
<bashrc> saucy
<mungbean> sausage
<neuro> hehe
<bashrc> well at least it's not Beefy Miracle
 * neuro waits patiently for the announcement of Tantric Tiger
<neuro> or Tremulous Toucan
<neuro> or Turbulent Tortoise
<mungbean> saucy saucisson
<mungbean> or sossy sandwich
<neuro> ohhhh
<neuro> git :)
<mungbean> yay
<mungbean> my favourite t-shirt is now available to buy
<mungbean> http://shirt.woot.com/offers/by-your-powers-combined
<ali1234> at least i know what a salamander is
<MooDoo> bashrc: that was a cool name ;)
<bittintop> my wifi card works under Ubuntu on my laptop now, think i should save some files from the Windows partion and reinstall it :)
<bittin> my wifi card on my laptop works under GNU/Linux now lets kill the Windows partition :p
<ali1234> why is ufw blocking connections on port 80 when it is specifically allowed?
<ali1234> [17039148.937362] [UFW BLOCK] IN=eth0 OUT= MAC=<> SRC=<> DST=<> LEN=40 TOS=0x00 PREC=0x00 TTL=54 ID=0 DF PROTO=TCP SPT=44640 DPT=80 WINDOW=0 RES=0x00 RST URGP=0
<ali1234> SRC = my IP
<shauno> what do you get for iptables --list | grep dpt:www
 * AlanBell heads in to the party
<MooDoo> have fun :)
<directhex> i like iptables-persistent
<directhex> it doesn't get in the way
<directhex> much
<kvarley> FGLRX is driving me insane
<kvarley> I can't get it to disable overscan at all
<kvarley> Not via Catalyst GUI or via amdconfig or via editing the config files manually
<MartijnVdS> kvarley: isn't it a setting on the screen you're outputting to?
<kvarley> MartijnVdS: I mean it's a monitor that doesn't use overscan and the driver things it does because it's over HDMI
<kvarley> I can change the overscan via the gui but it only works until I reboot
<MartijnVdS> overscan is an old remnant of analog TV
<MartijnVdS> why would anyone in their right minds use it on HDMI!?
<kvarley> No idea, tell AMD
<MartijnVdS> kvarley: does it work with the free driver/
<kvarley> They used to be good with their drivers as far as I can remember
<kvarley> Ever since 12.10 it's been an uphill struggle
<kvarley> MartijnVdS:  Unity is so sluggish with the open source driver
<kvarley> MartijnVdS: So yes, but barely
<MartijnVdS> weird!
<MartijnVdS> kvarley: doesn't aticonfig work?
<MartijnVdS> kvarley: it should be able to set over/underscan
<kvarley> MartijnVdS: No
<kvarley> Neither does editing the config files manually
<MartijnVdS> kvarley: I guess you found http://nixnote.blogspot.nl/2012/06/amd-catalyst-fixing-underscan.html already?
<kvarley> MartijnVdS: Ah ha, that was the command I was looking for - thanks! BRB
<kvarley> It works \0/ thanks MartijnVdS
<MartijnVdS> \o/
<directhex> yeah, this raring upgrade is going great
<directhex> kernel install failure, initramfs-tools install failure, then apport failure
<dwatkins_> hmm, I appear to have rejoined automatically.
<shrik> did anyone else have their Ubuntu become a Kubuntu after the upgrade?
<popey> heh
<czajkowski> Laney: http://i.imgur.com/O5l9Kxh.jpg
<shrik> my bootup splash screen is a Kubuntu one, and my GRUB entry says Kubuntu. But login screen and desktop are all Unity.
<shrik> So confused right now.
<redtape> Nice Full moon tonite ... :::: http://imgur.com/gallery/zFT4M
<AlanBell> evening all
 * AlanBell is in a pub
<popey> yo
 * popey is still working
<mgdm> How come? Time zone fun?
<redtape> AlanBell: Beer or Cider ?
<mungbean> is wae
<mungbean> watching new old morse
<redtape> Between 2 ferns is back on .. If anyone wants a laugh ... :::   http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/40427c7af8/between-two-ferns-oscar-buzz-edition-part-1?rel=player&playlist=135161
<AlanBell> beer
<popey> mgdm: meetings with community developers
<popey> people contributing who can't meet during the working day
<mgdm> ahh
<popey> \o/ finished
<mgdm> \o/
<aex> aloo
<aex> any
<aex> need help
<redtape> oo net split .. over now .. whatsup ?
<popey> aex: wassup?
#ubuntu-uk 2013-04-26
<popey> Good morning!
<diplo> Morning all
<bittin> top of the morning :>
<bittin> listning to Ubuntu-UK Podcast before going to work :)
<popey> yay
<bittin> should install Ubuntu on my laptop instead of Windows 8 when i stop being lazy aswell as the wificard works now with 13.04
<bittin> :p
<popey> Yes, yes you should.
<bittin> but i think i should save for a bigger SSD or macbook but i promised myself, to save all my money to go to US to meet one person i like :p
<bittin> but well an 80GB SSD is okay in a laptop
<bittin> should install Ubuntu on it when i stop being lazy and change Unity to Openbox or something proper :p
<bittin> ah well have to go to work
<brobostigon> good morning eveyrone,
<MooDoo> morning
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo
<MooDoo> :)
<brobostigon> :)
<brobostigon> just found something interesting, arduinodroid, an arduino ide for android, just playing about with it.
<MooDoo> how was the party last night?
<brobostigon> not a clue.
<NET||abuse> morning folks,,,
<MooDoo> morning
<NET||abuse> party was alright, we were outside on the decking and the weather was lovely.. so that was nice
<MooDoo> lovely :)
<NET||abuse> i got nicely sloshed and spouted alot of rubbish, so a success in my book :)
<popey> haha â»
<popey> excellent, a typical release party
<popey> I recall one of the first ones I went to, I was helping someone with their laptop. Mark Shuttleworth arrived, walked over and said "Hi, I'm Mark". I was like "DUUUUH I know who you are!" (in my head)
<NET||abuse> :P hehe
<NET||abuse> starstruck much :)
<popey> yeah â»
<NET||abuse> yeh, no sign of him this time that's for sure
<Laney> ahoy
<NET||abuse> there wasn't really a tech help session and i didn't see anyone installing, mostly just chatting and boozing
<popey> yeah, he's busy flying around the world marketing ubuntu to everyone â»
<TheOpenSourcerer> Morning
<popey> pip pip
<popey> looking forward to beerex
<TheOpenSourcerer> :-D
<popey> my mate dave is coming too, and hugo
<TheOpenSourcerer> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farnham_Beer_Exhibition
<JamesTait> Good morning all, happy Hangover Day! >:-D
<BigRedS> NET||abuse: well, there's less and less call for installfests these days. It tends to all just work...
 * JamesTait turned into a babbling idiot fanboi upon (literally) bumping into Mark in Budapest.
<JamesTait> Most embarassing.
<AlanBell> morning all
<popey> yo
<MooDoo> JamesTait: did you tell him what day it was
<JamesTait> MooDoo, nope. I opened with "Ooops, sorry!"
<JamesTait> Before realising who he was, then proceeding to tell him why he's a massive celebrity in our house.
<JamesTait> And finally getting a photo.
<Laney> haha
<JamesTait> He was very cool about the whole thing.  I think he was embarassed for me. :)
<popey> â»
<popey> was that at a UDS?
<JamesTait> It was.  I think I made a better impression at the Canonical All Stars gig on the Friday night.
<Daviey> popey: I assume you mean this party, http://bootie.daviey.com/~dave/release_party.JPG ?
<MooDoo> JamesTait: i'm sure people would be the same with meeting popey or czajkowski or Daviey or davmor2 they are celebs in my house :)
<brobostigon> nice url. bootie.daviey.com :)
 * JamesTait has a bag autographed by popey and Daviey. ;)
<AlanBell> evil looking face on popey in that
<JamesTait> As well as Laura, Tony and Ciemon, and Dan and Fab from Linux Outlaws.
<Daviey> popey: what were you doing to Mark's behind?
<MooDoo> JamesTait: yup and AlanBell and TheOpenSourcerer
<Daviey> AlanBell: there used to be a page on the wiki that had some more photos.  Particularly of the 2008 release party.  Do you know where it went?
<Daviey> damn, it was Adam Bagnalls photos - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/Gallery/HardyReleaseParty2008?action=recall&rev=2
<popey> yes Daviey !
<MooDoo> what about this one daviey it's you! - http://www.flickr.com/photos/secretlondon/2439356023/in/photostream/
<Daviey> popey: Happen to know what happened?  He asked ubuntu-uk.org to mirror it
<popey> nope
<MooDoo> and the ubuntu cake  - http://www.flickr.com/photos/secretlondon/2440148340/
<nigelb> oh wow. Daviey without a beard.
<nigelb> I didn't know such a thing happened.
<Daviey> erk
<Daviey> I actually did shave it off last month :)
<nigelb> wow
<nigelb> Also, I might be in UK in July.
<nigelb> We should try to met this time.
<SuperMat1> ahoy
<Daviey> nigelb: sounds good
<Daviey> popey: looks like they were lost last year.. :(
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<bigcalm> Are we all sober after the release parties?
<SuperMatt> yes yes
<SuperMatt> I had mcdonalds breakfast
<BigRedS> ish
<SuperMatt> everything is now fixed
<popey> Daviey: eh?
<BigRedS> Liam got me very drunk again :/
<popey> oh, they're on the box?
<SuperMatt> /o\
<bigcalm> I'm just back from the post office having had my passport renewal application checked. Glad I did as it failed due to my counter signatory making mistakes :(
<popey> Daviey: not on my backups â¹
<directhex> bigcalm, need to get an application done for the baby
<bigcalm> directhex: I don't have a baby
<directhex> bigcalm, well, i do. getting him to pose for a passport photo will be tricky
<bigcalm> :D
<nigelb> directhex: I still don't believe your passport has weather patterns oon it.
<AlanBell> software updater is kinda nice now
<directhex> nigelb, you saw the photo!
<nigelb> directhex: I did!
<bigcalm> I'm not sure about the new icons
<bigcalm> And I'm struggling to get ATI drivers for the laptop - again
<nigelb> meh, still on precise.
<directhex> i just bought a geforce...
<bigcalm> All future laptops will be geforce powered. ATI is nothing but trouble
<directhex> nigelb, overcast on page 5-6,9-10, cloudy on page 7-8, rainy on page 11-12
<Daviey> popey: it looks like it was removed from ubuntu-uk.org when we switched to WP site
<JamesTait> Hm, interesting... it's sunny and hailing.
<directhex> that's page 23-24
<Daviey> popey: /srv/old.ubuntu-uk.org/www is now a dangling symling to /var/www/ubuntu-uk.org
<popey> Daviey: yeah, bummer, sorry.
<nigelb> directhex: Haha.
<Daviey> popey: Don't know who it was, sorry, wasn't blaming you
<Daviey> I just emailed Adam, to see if he still has them
<Daviey> Would be a shame to lose critical artifacts :)
<popey> it probably was me tbh
<Laney> bah, no milk
 * Laney grimaces at the thought of black tea
<bigcalm> Laney: have a fruit tea or black coffee
<Laney> bigcalm: I already made a pot :(
<bigcalm> Doh
<Laney> ho hum
<directhex> moo juice!
<directhex> do you live on or near a farm...?
<Laney> i live quite firmly inside a city
<Laney> not aware of any farms for several miles
<directhex> how about urban cows?
<Laney> do deer produce milk? there's deer in the park up the road
<directhex> you hear urban farming is a thing, there must be urban cows
<Myrtti> we've got about ten liters of UHT whole milk in our emergency cupboard :-P
<Myrtti> (mainly used for making yoghurt)
<directhex> UHT is not a job for the emergency cupboard. UHT is for use in the fallout shelter when you run out of fresh rat milk
<Myrtti> well for it's main purpose in our household it works fine
<Myrtti> (its)
<Myrtti> I recon it's better to buy organic British UHT whole milk than to buy some New Zealand powdered milk with witch craft in it
<Myrtti> (ie. use some old yoghurt as a culture and mix it in the UHT milk rather than using Easy-Yo packs and water)
<popey> http://www.polygon.com/2013/4/25/4267978/left-4-dead-2-for-linux-public-beta-releasing-next-week
<directhex> note: this is left 4 dead 2 beta, not left 4 dead 2. you cannot play with left 4 dead 2 players, only left 4 dead 2 beta players
<directhex> much like tf2
<davmor2> Morning all
<SuperMatt> hey hey
<davmor2> MooDoo: Celebs are we now, hmmm
<davmor2> </best yoda impression>
<MooDoo> davmor2: yes you are to me any way.....
<MooDoo> davmor2: just take the compliment you :)
<davmor2> MooDoo: hahaha Morning dude :)
<MooDoo> morning :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> popey: What time are we meeting this evening and where?
<popey> TheOpenSourcerer: will get a train from Ash vale I think.. need to chase Dave
<popey> TheOpenSourcerer: hmm, i have 5 tickets, are 3 of them yours?
<popey> you, AlanBell and A.N.Other?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Don't think so.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Not us.
<popey> hm
<popey> i may have a spare ticket then
<TheOpenSourcerer> Is filace coming?
<popey> yes
<TheOpenSourcerer> what about cz<tab> then?
<popey> dont fink so
<czajkowski> I may pop down
<Dave2> Too many Daves
<davmor2> Dave2: you seem to be insinuating that, that is a bad thing
<popey> be good to see you czajkowski
<popey> would be nice if I could stay a bit sober
<czajkowski> popey: shall we have a curry :)
 * czajkowski wont bring pringles ;)
<popey> ohh
<popey> TheOpenSourcerer: is there a plan to curry?
<MooDoo> this sounds like a good evening ahead :)
<popey> an alternative release party
<MooDoo> :)
<popey> Release Party II: I know what you did last night.
<MooDoo> ha hahahaha
<MooDoo> any extreame ironing popey ?
<popey> I do hope not
<MooDoo> lol
<TheOpenSourcerer> Nom Nom, curry.
<TheOpenSourcerer> popey: I do nt have a plan but that sounds like a good one :-)
<shauno> heh, that's an awkward default.  VM with 2gb disk, 1gb ram.  installer creates 1gb filesystem and 1gb swap.  so I've got roughly 250MB disk left out of the box
<popey> useful
<MooDoo> shauno: that's plenty enough space for minecraft, what's the issue?
<MooDoo> ;)
<shauno> hah, my world dir is 700MB
<MooDoo> ouch lol
 * popey wonders how big the home server one is
<shauno> it shouldn't actually be an issue, the application gets mounted from a second disk.  it just feels a bit like ryanair.  technically enough space for 2 legs, but only on paper
<mungbean> raid array suddendly thinks 4 disks are dead :(
<mungbean> not sure who to believe
<knightwise> hey everyone :)
<knightwise> just downloading 13.04 , can"t wait to give it a spin on my Lenovo x212
<redtape> hi .. there ...
<brobostigon> afternoonings knightwise
<knightwise> hey brobostigon how are ya
<brobostigon> knightwise: overall pretty good today, and you?
<knightwise> looong boring meetings today
<brobostigon> :(
<knightwise> bwa , its ok , mostly hiding behind my screen while doing  some IRC and downloading the 3 new ISO's :p
<knightwise> and yell something intelligent once in a while
<MooDoo> i installed 13.04 last night, nothing special, just worked as usual :D
<knightwise> I'm thinking of doing a dist upgrade on my PROBOOK 6560b
<brobostigon> knightwise: :)
<knightwise> there you go .. all three ISO's going tot da Usb Stick :)
<brobostigon> :)
<celesteh> hello, I have a computer with a touchscreen and what I want to do is plug it into a project and mirror the display, so my main screen gets resized/letterboxed, but be able to keep using the stylus. So the calibration numbers for the stylus would adjust to the new screen geometry.  I have tried googling, but I don't know what terms to search for.
<dwatkins> celesteh: what kind of computer is it?
<andylock1an> hey guys
<dwatkins> allo andylock1an
<andylock1an> can anyone sort me out some help with an apache reverse proxy - I've forgotten how to get the page to return the URLs with the folder path's rewritten
<andylock1an> http://dpaste.com/1074499/
<andylockran> heya dwa
<andylockran> heya dwatkins
<mgdm> andylockran: ProxyPassReverse?
<mgdm> andylockran: he says, without clicking the link
<celesteh> dwatkins: a lenovo x220 tablet running ubuntu studio 13.04
<dwatkins> celesteh: it should have fn keys you can use to switch display modes, although I have no idea if they're implemented in Raring; you might need to manually select the display option to mirror it.
<dwatkins> ...assuming Raring picks up the secondary screen, of course.
<celesteh> The problem I'm having is that if the screen resolution changes, say because of mirroring, the callibration for the touch screen does not compensate for this
<celesteh> So the place where i'm touching the screen is not where the arrow is appearing
<popey> celesteh: do you know what make of touch device it is?
<popey> is it a wacom one?
<TheOpenSourcerer> popey: What's the plan dude?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Cobbett at 6?
<celesteh> popey: it's treated as a wacom by ubuntu, but i think this is not the actual make. there's some firmaware update i'm supposed to install which will effect how ubuntu sees it
<andylockran> mgdm: I tell ye, running a reverse proxy is turning out to be miles harder than I'd have thought
<popey> TheOpenSourcerer: I should be on the train arriving at 17:25
<popey> so will walk down to town, and should be at the cobbet before 6
<mgdm> andylockran: apache isn't all that good at it
<popey> celesteh: there's a wacom-tools package I think which has a tool you can use to recalibrate
<popey> xsetwacom is the command
<popey> you can use that to set the orientation, and resolution and such
<celesteh> cheers
<czajkowski> popey: when I come outta the train station where do I head to ?
<TheOpenSourcerer> popey: Grand/Champion. Will see thee there then.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Or I might wait for you at the station ;-)
<popey> czajkowski: william cobbet pub
<celesteh> I'm not finding these tools in the ubntu software centre thing.  ...  I should also mention I'm using gnome
<popey> or just ping me, or look me up on latitude
<popey> !info wacom-tools
<lubotu3> Package wacom-tools does not exist in quantal
<popey> bah
<czajkowski> popey: cheers
<popey> celesteh: i dont know what the package name is these days, sorry. and i need to go away from keyboard to catch a train
<czajkowski> choooo chooo
<ahayzen> popey, xserver-xorg-input-wacom - X.Org X server -- Wacom input driver?
<andylockran> mgdm: would you reckon nginx would be better?
<celesteh> Ok, thanks for your help. Have a good train trip
<mgdm> andylockran: possibly - the only one I have real experience with is Varnish
<mgdm> andylockran: but I've at least played with nginx doing that
<bigcalm> 7.5MB/s to leech Solid Steel podcasts. This still amuses me
<popey> â beer
<popey> ttfn
<SuperMatt> have fun
<bigcalm> 1h15m remaining to the week
<bigcalm> Don't think I'm going to get everything done. Looks like another working weekend.
<bigcalm> Do I care too much about the job?
<SuperMatt> only 45 left in my week
<bigcalm> Slacker :P
<SuperMatt> tonight shall mostly be comprised of sleeping
<SuperMatt> you really have no idea what goes on here at work
<bigcalm> Slacking? ;)
<SuperMatt> mostly https://twitter.com/sprmtt/status/325266486224642049
<bigcalm> :O
<SuperMatt> admittedly that was last friday
<SuperMatt> we didn't have the live music this week
<MooDoo> later popey et all who's going tonight
<SuperMatt> oh, and in 13 minutes the bar opens
<bigcalm> Lass next to the pillar looks as though she is begrudgingly  sitting through the performance
<bigcalm> You have a bar at work?
<MooDoo> she asleep lol
<SuperMatt> yes. yes we do
<SuperMatt> just bad timing on the photo probably
<brobostigon> just found a good name for an app that exists on android, "pubdar". :)
<SuperMatt> can't decide if I wanna stay at work for a beer, or just head off home and sleep
<bigcalm> Free beer?
<SuperMatt> not free, no
<SuperMatt> that was last night
<bigcalm> Decent ales?
<SuperMatt> alas no
<SuperMatt> nothing on tap
<bigcalm> Go home to sleep
<SuperMatt> hah
<MooDoo> nothing on tap....pah rubbish
<SuperMatt> it's not a huge bar
<SuperMatt> it's just... a bar
<SuperMatt> ... in our office
<MooDoo> what a metal bar
<MooDoo> ?
<SuperMatt> http://www.ahhhhh.com/
<SuperMatt> MooDoo: it's a bar, as in alvohol
<SuperMatt> *alcohol
<bigcalm> SuperMatt: I thought that was going to be a link to your place of work and its bar
<SuperMatt> http://www.dezeen.com/2008/09/01/engine-offices-by-jump-studios/ this is it
<SuperMatt> or least some of the pictures are
 * TheOpenSourcerer tidies up desk and heads to the train to meet popey (or just go straight to the pub).
 * AlanBell heads to the pub
<brobostigon> :D
<ideas-hub> right can you guys help
<ideas-hub> im trying to connect spring lobby using a LAN Network
 * brobostigon googles spring lobby, as he has no clue what it is.
<ali1234> spring is a game
<ali1234> spring lobby is where you make game match ups
<brobostigon> ah,
<ideas-hub> yea
<ideas-hub> i know
<ideas-hub> i wanna know how to connect to localhost
<ideas-hub> so i can host a LAN Network game
<ideas-hub> without the internet
<ideas-hub> right so you dont know then
<ideas-hub> ......... great
<brobostigon> ideas-hub: have you tried there irc channel, here on freenode?
<brobostigon> their*
<ideas-hub> i dont know what it is
<brobostigon> it says on their site #springlobby
<brobostigon> springlobby.info then to contact at the bottom of the page.
<MartijnVdS> Why does the update-manager icon look like an "A" now?
<MartijnVdS> The icon (with its green background) looks like some web site opened up something evil
<directhex> very mac-like isn't it
<MartijnVdS> directhex: "A" for Ubuntu Apdates?
<dwatkins> Aptsnacks
<Laney> Awesome software in here
<MartijnVdS> the green background is suspicious as well
<MartijnVdS> it looks like a poker chip
<dwatkins> MartijnVdS: somewhat ironically, your nick is green in my IRC client.
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: hmm :)
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: do I look suspicious too?
<dwatkins> unless you mention me by name, then it's yellow.
<dwatkins> MartijnVdS: no, you look Dutch.
<dwatkins> I imagine you're busy riding 14-fot tall bicycles in your offline time
<dwatkins> *foot
<MartijnVdS> à² _à² 
<dwatkins> ttha to you too ;)
<dwatkins> ah, you disapprove
<MartijnVdS> We're getting a king in a few days...
<MartijnVdS> William IV
<dwatkins> congratulations
<MartijnVdS> or whatever he'll call himself :)
<dwatkins> We've had a queen for so long, she's practically immortal.
<MartijnVdS> William IV would be confusing if "your" William became king ;)
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: We've had 3 queens in a row, since 1890
<MartijnVdS> 3 queens and one "queen-regent"
<dwatkins> What's the difference between a queen and a queen-regent, aside from 7 characters?
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: the king died while his daughter was 10
<dwatkins> oh dear :(
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: so his wife (the queen, but not "by family" but "by marriage") took over for 8 years
<MartijnVdS> 1890-1898
 * dwatkins sighs
<dwatkins> I wish I didn't have to deal with random people sometimes
<dwatkins> Freecycle tends to bring out the people who don't use e-mail much
<MartijnVdS> heh, I know the type
<dwatkins> I got three consecutive replies asking the same thing but with a longer sentence each time
<redtape> OT | oooh .. Looks like Winston not Maggie will get the new Â£5 note -age ... ::: http://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/new-5-pound-note-to-feature-winston-churchill-portrait-102225247.html
<redtape> [reposted]
<redtape> popey, not sure it was you, however: someone mentioned about "Things todo after installing 13.04 "  .. | I found this article :::  http://itsfoss.com/things-to-do-after-installing-ubuntu-13-04/
<redtape> I take it everyone is getting drunk ??
<ali1234> sure, why not
<diddledan> drunk? on a friday? the day after a big push? you must be mad
<diddledan> need to be sober in the morning to do the weekly shopping :-p
<redtape> diddledan: You and half of the working populus !
<ali1234> cheers
<redtape> salute !
<diddledan> prost
<diddledan> chinchin?
<diddledan> :-p
<redtape> i thnk that's italian, but it's along time since I spoke lasagne ^_^
<diddledan> german
<diddledan> or so my German friend tells me
<redtape> ok . goodstuff.
<diddledan> he might be deluding me
<diddledan> wouldn't be the first time ;-)
<redtape> Did you see Jono asking for weed on his weekly QnA on youtube ?
<diddledan> lol, no?
<redtape> i think its planetubuntu .. or ubuntu on air .. last one i saw anyways..
<ali1234> http://pastebin.com/93TsirGC any ideas?
<mungbean> http://hardware.slashdot.org/story/13/04/26/1619230/5-sensor-turns-lcd-monitors-into-touchscreens?utm_source=slashdot&utm_medium=twitter
<mungbean> not really touchscreen, typical slashdot. understands a few gestures
<mungbean> better getting a leap thingy
<ali1234> how do you benchmark php/mysql code?
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: using rm -rf
<diddledan> which one was that the answer to, or was it for both? :-p
<diddledan> oh facebook, why must you be so conflicted over whether I'm gay or whether I need a gf? latest advert "meet submissive women now"
<diddledan> I really should unsubscribe
<mungbean> i get the ripped abs inline ads
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: you can close your account :)
<MartijnVdS> or use an ad blocker
<mungbean> inline ads on the phone ;(
<MartijnVdS> I removed facebook from my phone.. it ate my battery
<mungbean> disable push?
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: nah, I like it better like this
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: I use(d) FB too much anyway
<mungbean> my close family of first cousins, uncles, nephews etc number around 100
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: the website works fine :)
<mungbean> fb is excellent place to put baby pics etc
<mungbean> getting asked for help on setting up website, should i direct them to a person, or a website that helps this stuff?
<mungbean> don'twanna get saddled with it
<MartijnVdS> probably, yes
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: do they want a blog? blogger or tumblr
<mungbean> i don't even wanna ask
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: Tell them your consulting rate ;)
<diddledan> see, the problem is the critical mass phenomena - I stay on facebook because all my friends and family are on facebook. they stay on facebook because they're nieve and won't change now they're established; and besides all _their_ friends are on facebook.. ad infinitum
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: Â£100/hr, Â£75 because you know them so wel
<MartijnVdS> l
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: the only reason I haven't closed my account is that there are some people I only talk to using FB
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: and I don't want to NOT talk to them :)
<diddledan> I don't actually have any idea as to the going rate for things like web consultancy. despite working along exactly those lines. the costing is up to my bosses, I just take my paycheque
<diddledan> MartijnVdS, I know what you mean
<diddledan> (take my cheque and do all the meaningful work :-p)
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: Â£75-100/hr sounds nice though, right?
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: (family rates)
<diddledan> yes it does :-p
<shauno> if you can get the hours, anyway.  I did a gig on $60/hr for a while.  it sounds great, until you find yourself sitting at home praying for something to break this week
<diddledan> lol @ email I just got from hantslug: "One final note (and it's quite important), we have no Vodafone coverage on [southampton uni] campus at the moment, due to this blasted peregrine falcon up their mast, and therefore they can't fix it... (It broke)"
<MartijnVdS> haha :)
<MartijnVdS> ewps
<MartijnVdS> I wonder what coverage will be like in Cornwall
<MartijnVdS> probably 2G all the way.. 64kbit if I'm lucky
<diddledan> ouch
<diddledan> no fibre either, I guess
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: I'm just visiting, for about a week, next month
<diddledan> need to buy some weetabix
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: so wired internet is probably out :)
<diddledan> aah
<diddledan> thank god for that - I had palpatations thinking about it
<MartijnVdS> it's only a week
<mungbean> weetabix? constipated/
<diddledan> no fibre in cornwall = need to buy weetabix
<MartijnVdS> ah
<diddledan> sorry, my mind works weirdly
<shauno> ain't that the truth
<diddledan> shush you
<MartijnVdS> 8-)
<diddledan> :-p
<MartijnVdS> Anyway.. I'm going to drive all the way from Harwich
<MartijnVdS> Long drive is long.
<diddledan> wave as you go past Basingstoke, and I'll wave back :-D
<MartijnVdS> :)
<MartijnVdS> I hope the weather stays/becomes great, so I can take pics like this one:
<MartijnVdS> http://www.flickr.com/photos/treenaks/8669835786/in/photostream
<mungbean> i like the churchill Â£5 notes
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: haven't seen them yet?
<diddledan> good weather? in Britain? you're kidding, right?!
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: I'm from the Netherlands, don't think I don't know weather ;)
<diddledan> lol
<shauno> cornwall isn't really in the UK as far as weather goes.  it's its own little world
<diddledan> shauno, so's Basingstoke, to be fair
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: just one perpetual rain cloud? :)
<mungbean> my new tshirt is shipped \p/
<diddledan> we actaully had some sunshine today
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: lies!
<diddledan> I was so shocked I had to open the window
<mungbean> bears some resemblance to beefy miracle http://shirt.woot.com/offers/by-your-powers-combined
<redtape> Marti
<redtape> soz
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: http://dftba.com/product/15x/Ceci-nest-pas-un-Corndog-Shirt
<redtape> MartijnVdS: Has anyone got a site on the impending doom of the next big flood in Holland ?
 * redtape loves doom etc ..
<diddledan> doom is sooo passe
<MartijnVdS> Quake is where it's at?
<diddledan> or it will be afterwards
<diddledan> nexuiz?
<shauno> according to my extensive armchair research, doom mostly occurs in NYC, we're pretty much safe/boring
<redtape> MartijnVdS: I was talking about the flodds ..
<redtape> **floods...
<MartijnVdS> redtape: we have more earthquakes than floods these days
<diddledan> shauno, boston tried
<diddledan> oh dear
<diddledan> I went there
<diddledan> too soon?
<redtape> Whatever .. I mean when the dykes are breached etc ..
<MartijnVdS> redtape: with the natural gas drilling and everything
<redtape> is there a websites for that ?
<MartijnVdS> redtape: not that I know.. but I haven't looked
<redtape> crumbs .. ignorance is bliss..
<MartijnVdS> redtape: nah, my house is above sea level
<MartijnVdS> = care level :P
<redtape> Sounds like you.
<diddledan> I'm resisting a dyke joke.
<shauno> I'm wondering if his precious fibre is all above sea level :p
<redtape> i think robbin williams had the best thou..
<MartijnVdS> shauno: most of it is :)
<redtape> I dont think petrol cars will beat electric cars for popularity in 2020 thou .. [que the flamewar ...]
<MartijnVdS> redtape: meh
<redtape> hahahaha
<diddledan> I think pizza is needed
<redtape> i'm cooking one now actually
<redtape> chicago town ...
<shauno> uff.  I've been trawling for sound dampening material for cars without getting drowned in sites full of car fanatics.
<shauno> (I don't need it for a car, but it made sense in my head)
<redtape> egg cup boxes ?
<diddledan> madonna's bra looks just like the material nassa uses
<redtape> who's nassa ?
<diddledan> probably cheaper, too
<diddledan> erm.. nasa**
<shauno> I'm trying to quieten an espresso machine far enough that it doesn't wake people up at 5am.  egg cartons won't go far in that little space, and won't last long at those temps
<redtape> oh , thought you meant the egyptian , then.
<diddledan> shauno, you totally need bras
<mungbean> has a dilemma
<mungbean> am the victim of bully boss at work
<mungbean> hr done nothing
<mungbean> :(
<redtape> diddledan: Are you calling shauno fat ?
<diddledan> lol
<mungbean> what other channels are there when hr don't help?
<diddledan> nono.. pointy-madonna-bra = the material that nasa uses for soundproofing
<redtape> mm .. SuperMacs in Galway should be packed now ...
<diddledan> but.. shauno you're fat :-p
<shauno> mungbean, industrial tribunal if it can't be handled in-house, usually
<diddledan> or should that be "phat"? I don't understand teentxtspk
<shauno> supermacs is disturbing.  they actually do a pretty decent fish'n'chips, you just don't want to be seen going in there
<redtape> mungbean: have you tried using an Olympus and actually getting some evidence ?
<redtape> shauno: There are locals who mutter under their breath when I go there with a netbook .... that decree "It's not an internet Cafe !!"
<redtape> Funny, any chance ppl get to say "NO" in a public place in IRL , they will.
<redtape> pizza#'s ready..
<shauno> complaining is a national sport here
<dwatkins> so is queueing
<ali1234> NO
<shauno> queuing not so much, galway's too multicultural for traits like that to survive :/
<shauno> I dread using the busses when miniature people are allowed outside
<shauno> I gotta admit though, I'm getting just as bad as the locals.  this weather is getting me down.  I'll take any change I get to gripe about it.  and I grew up in scotland!
<redtape> miniature people ??
<diddledan> you have an abundance of little people over there?
<diddledan> I know you like your midgets, but still
<shauno> we do!  they keep them in prison camps until 3pm, and then unleash them all upon the public transport system.  it's pretty evil, because given a chance, I don't wake up until 2pm
<dwatkins> in Vienna, the underground is free for children
<diddledan> 2pm sounds about normal
<diddledan> my boss doesn't seem to agree tho
<shauno> ah yes.  the "unfair on the team" speech
<diddledan> yup, that's the one
<redtape> pizza be good  , thou  .
<diddledan> also the "difficult to run a business" speach
<diddledan> I fully appreciate his point of view, but then I also appreciate sleep
<mungbean> i find it weird that one guy gets suspended sentence for tweeting an image, but the retweeters dont
<mungbean> but the original tweet was from a blog, hence could be considered a retweet in itself
<redtape> i only go on twitter once a week .. even then I only get 2 days of tweets before it doesn't scroll no more :(
<diddledan> ok, I succumbed and turned the oven on
<redtape> piza ?
<diddledan> pizza will be had
<redtape> ah -ha !
<mungbean> some people follow 2000 people...i mean whats the point?
<diddledan> I might have some beer around here someplace, too
<redtape> i know.
<redtape> i went onto website called http://www.circlecount.com/communities/  to see wat communities have blossomed .. but it's mostly mulch .
<diddledan> twitter is all about finding out when z-list celeb snogs another z-list celeb, or to detail horrifying gore from the frontline of some war we shouldn't have started. facebook is all about finding out when your sister snogs joe down the road, or to detail horrifying gore from the frontline of bejeweled dash
<redtape> glad i dont use either   , much !
<diddledan> the resistance is strong, I sense. resist no more, you will.
<diddledan> hands up who didn't read that with yoda's voice?
<mungbean> twitter for me is not having to install an rss reader
<redtape> If only Ubuntu lauched a proper website like plus.google.con then they would easily have a proper slice of activity on the net .. but they dont like making friends that wont pay .. or maynot pay at some point in the future ...
<diddledan> speaking of ubuntu.. I need to upgrade
<mungbean> ubuntu planet used to be popular
<mungbean> i stoped reading after i stopped using rss reader
<redtape> i'm just tired of being preached to .. :-(
<diddledan> I occasionally read an omgbuntu article that gets shoved into my phone
<diddledan> but that's not canonical owned
<diddledan> so no revenue
<diddledan> I sometimes wonder what life would be like with a Gentoo-phone
<redtape> i only think that centup is the real way to get bloggiong revenue .. flattr is a fart.
<diddledan> then I stop flogging myself with a pitchfork and come back to my senses
<mungbean> does gentoo really exist?
<mungbean> i thought it was a fake thing like arch
<redtape> gentoo ?
<diddledan> it's similar to arch. arch is a fork afaik
<redtape> isn't that pendrive linux or sommit ?
<mungbean> arch is just a fake linux that trolls invoke on blog comments
<diddledan> nope, gentoo is a meta-distribution - it provides the means to compile a system from scratch
<redtape> takes all night thou ..
<diddledan> each gentoo installation is unique
<mungbean> i'm making up a linux called barry
<diddledan> barry island linux would totally take off
<mungbean> i won't go to the bother of making isos
<redtape> barry .. the one with brown hair   ??
<mungbean> i'll just talk about it on g+ and the like
<mungbean> soon there will be a following
<redtape> may do if its GNU/Linux , i guess.
<diddledan> I have to sysadmin a bunch of Gentoo servers at work
<diddledan> really? who uses gentoo on a server?!
<mungbean> 15 years runnig linux in the enterprise, i never saw anything but ubuntu/debian/centos/fedora/rhel on a server (ocassionally suse on an appliance)
<mungbean> i would sack anyone for using gentoo in the enterprise
<mungbean> sorry, gotta wait 3 days to install this mate
<mungbean> barry linux fixes that anyway
<mungbean> any problem with linux? barry is better
 * redtape wonders where the other 100 distro's go wrong , then ?
<redtape> **1000's
<diddledan> well the Government don't seem to mind, at least. well they haven't complained yet.
<diddledan> but then they'd probably pay through the nose for it to be "fixed" in so much as that means installing ubuntu instead.
<redtape> anyone seen any good crowd-funders lately (projects etc ?)
<directhex> in business, you need to quantify your risks
<directhex> this includes the risks of your software failing
<directhex> people opt for distros like suse and rhel not because they're good, but because there's a phone number for supportr
<redtape> .. leaves for bed  .. bye bye ..
<directhex> i.e. "a neck to choke"
<diddledan> unless the business is freeloading
<ali1234> right, u[grade tiem
<mungbean> watches kubuntu video...still ugly
<mungbean> kde on barry linux is much nicer
<diddledan> we totally need to make barry popular
<redtape> shauno: Oh, shauno .. there's a meetup in Dublin for Ubuntu on the 28th April for the release . I won't be there ,. but thought you'd like to know ...
<mungbean> i like this subreddit http://www.reddit.com/r/Pareidolia/
<redtape> mungbean: Is it about aliens ?
<mungbean> nope, it's faces in everyday objects
<ali1234> opensuse has the best kde
<ali1234> and the worst everything else
<directhex> diddledan, well, no, there are plenty of valid reasons for a business not to use a commercial distro
<directhex> diddledan, e.g. we use debian at work... and a lot of the senior staff are debian developers
<diddledan> what would be the freeloader's equivalent to landscape for ubuntu? e.g. I personally run three servers out and about, and several desktoppy things
<diddledan> four servers even
<diddledan> I've got nagios running for the monitoring aspect
<diddledan> speaking of which. five servers. I have too many servers.
<mungbean> spacewalk
<mungbean> although its mainly for centos
<diddledan> yeah, I got put off by it/s
<diddledan> it's rhel/centos emphasis
<diddledan> oh how annoying. OS X you suck! I turned off inverse scrolling so my mousewheel worked how it does everywhere else, but now other gestures on the trackpad are all back-to-front
<diddledan> like swiping for a workspace on the right takes you left, and vice versa
<diddledan> I really need ubuntu to run on here nicely.. it seems to have issue wiht my wifi card tho
<diddledan> the issue manifests as silently dropping all packets destined for the network, but still saying the network is connected. happens after some time with where the connection has been working fine with no problems..
<shauno> you inverted scrolling, and then complain scrolling is inverted?
<diddledan> shauno, yup, that about sums it up
<ali1234> update aborted because: the install iso won't boo
<diddledan> I didn't say it was logical
<ali1234> t
<diddledan> ouch
<shauno> the swipe behaviour actually makes sense.  imagine you're moving a scrollbar now, not the screen
<diddledan> ali1234, bad burn or download? or is the copy on the mirror b0rked?
<ali1234> download is fine
<ali1234> md5 matches
<ali1234> writing it again now
<diddledan> try md5sum /dev/sr0
<ali1234> i can't it's a usb device
<shauno> probably not a good idea while it's burning anyway
<ali1234> it's not burning
<ali1234> the iso won't even fit on a cd any more
<shauno> I should take another stab at raising openstack this weekend.  I wiped it in frustration last night
<shauno> the only useful thing I've figured out so far, is that if the documentation is more than a month or two old, ignore it
<ali1234> they just told me about devstack in #juju
<ali1234> devstack.org
<directhex> diddledan, i have about 70 vms, all told. maybe more. i'd need to count
<shauno> yeah, I got that up, but with very little idea how.  and I'll need the how when I move it to more than one machine
<shauno> although I've been reading the config files it created to fill in the gaps in online docs
<diddledan> alot of it is database driven afaict
<redtape> I'll leaves with a graphic :: http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-raring/  Nite-all !
<shauno> it seems most the interfaces are quite unstable.  so, eg, when ubuntu's serverguide tells you to create an admin user with "nova-manage user admin $username", nova-manage complains 'user' isn't a valid option
<ali1234> http://paste.ubuntu.com/5606353/
<ali1234> BUG: unable to handle kernel NULL pointer dereference at 0000000000000030
<diddledan> from my non-expert eye it looks to be related to power management
<diddledan> caveat: I know nothing of the internals of the kernel, so it's purely a stab in the dark
<diddledan> although, looking some more.. a bug in overlayfs, mayhaps?
<diddledan> [   21.734982] IP: [<ffffffffa024e289>] ovl_permission+0x59/0x140 [overlayfs]
<diddledan> something to do with permissions, as further down is:
<diddledan> [   21.735209] Call Trace:
<diddledan> [   21.735215]  [<ffffffff8119e7d5>] __inode_permission+0x85/0xe0
<diddledan> obviously the kernel is allowed read and write everywhere so it's not a "not permissive" issue, but rather an implementation issue
<ali1234> i think i'm going to try unity for a bit again
<mungbean> http://i.imgur.com/Koly66s.jpg
<diddledan> the pedant in me would turn that one the right way about
<mungbean> go against the flow
<diddledan> and put the other one back in the box iwth his friends
<diddledan> I like things to be "just so" or alternatively for there to be a complete lack of "just so"iness
<shauno> are they meant to look that happy?
<diddledan> e.g. my house.. major disaster zone. lighters in a box.. just so
<diddledan> they been smoking too much of the "good stuff"
<mungbean> :D face
<ali1234> hmmmmmm
<ali1234> terminal is messed up
<ali1234> http://imagebin.org/255539
<ali1234> and now it's gone
<shauno> I'm starting to suspect it's just not your day
<diddledan_> wha? libreoffice can publish to mediawiki?!
<shauno> wha? someone uses libreoffice?
<ali1234> i see the bug where the installer hangs if there is already grub on the first partition has not been fixed
<diddledan_> what should I use instead?
<diddledan_> openoffice is evil oracle poo now, so I'm sure as funky not gonna use that
<shauno> heh, I won't answer that, because I'm a heretic :)
<diddledan_> you don't?!
<shauno> I tend to use pages or word, depending on whether they're happy with a pdf, or need something they can edit later
<ali1234> use google docs
<ali1234> or gedit
<shauno> I'm not allowed to use google docs :(
<diddledan_> o_O
<ali1234> gedit it is then
<ali1234> hmm the title bar test fades out to transparent... you can see the window behind
<ali1234> http://imagebin.org/255540
<shauno> we do actually use it for a single spreadsheet that needs to be shared with an outside partner.  but the whole mess I have to go through to put inside info on an outside system isn't worth it.  I tried once, and discovered they want me to go through the same song and dance for each *document*
<ali1234> 4 bugs found and i haven't finished installing it yet :(
<AlanBell> evening all
<diddledan_> I really must play c&c4 at some point.. how well does it run under wine, I wonder
<diddledan_> ok, I've found something I don't know how to fix - my main user on ubuntu on my mac has uid of 501 to match with the uid on my os x partition. uids below 1000 aren't show by default in the login chooser, so I can't select my user account to login
<shauno> I do the same, but my answer may be too oldschool for lightdm  (min & max values in /etc/login.defs)
<diddledan_> oddness.. /etc/lightdm/users.conf says it's uids below 500 that aren't shown, so my uid should be visible
<diddledan_> ok, lightdm users.conf is overridden by dbus' accountsservice
<diddledan_> ergh.. setting the option in login.defs does work.. but only after a reboot (or figuring out the order to shut the multitude of dbussy services down and then start them back up again)
<shauno> I honestly wasn't expecting that to be honored.  colour me surprised
 * diddledan_ breaks out the colouring pencils
 * diddledan_ stabs at the "paper"
<diddledan_> by paper, I obviously mean you :-)
<shauno> gotcha
<diddledan_> I'm nice and friendly when I've got sharp pencils
<ali1234> [    8.696039] swap_free: Bad swap file entry 400000000000000
<ali1234> [    8.696085] BUG: Bad page map in process sleep  pte:00000004 pmd:410863067
<ali1234> compiz is still unbelievably slow with nvidia-313 :(
<diddledan_> there's something funky with the intel graphics on my mac in association with ubuntu
<diddledan_> 13.04**
<ali1234> how do i disable global menu?
<diddledan_> weird jitteryness as though it's not filling the ram before it gets scrolled into view
<ali1234> how do i stop it from trying to get me to install webapps?
#ubuntu-uk 2013-04-27
<shauno> time to turn myself off and back on again.  gui is outta scope for me anyhow.  goodnight
<ali1234> ubuntu-geoip-provider just crashed while i was searching for unity-tweak-tool in the dash
<ali1234> but i turned off online searching
<ali1234> hmm
<ali1234> unity-tweak-tool is missing quite a lot of things
<diddledan_> my mac's jittery screen - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSP2EIAkkJg
<diddledan_> weirdness ensues when I place my finger between the screen and f2/3 - I'm assuming the ambient light sensor is there - it completely stops jittering while my finger is there, and resumes when I take my finger away again
<diddledan_> it's also intermittent, and either coincident with network activity or ssd activity or both (I've not determined which yet)
<diddledan_> or maybe neither
<diddledan_> it's definitely not doing it now, and I believe it's accessing both the network and ssd for ubuntuone to sync
<ali1234> definitely bug report that. bugs.freedesktop.org
<ali1234> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GovxiqYdMz4
<ball> Is Raring Ringtail a new thing?
<AlanBell> ball: it is fresh and juicy
<AlanBell> but not saucy, because that is the next new thing
<ali1234> hmm no more workspaces
<ali1234> that's kind of bad
<ali1234> ah, you can turn it back on
<ball> My daughter's PC just offered to upgrade itself.
<ali1234> don't do it
<ali1234> bugs... everywhere
<ball> Ah, ok
<ball> This one's getting wiped anyway, but I was interested.
<ali1234> i wiped and reinstalled
<ali1234> still getting kernel bugs
<ali1234> http://paste.ubuntu.com/5606677/ line 853
<ali1234> when i tried to reboot after installing nvidia driver it suspended instead of restarting
<ali1234> then intel_hda crashed on unsuspend
<ali1234> i had to force reboot it
<ali1234> now i'm getting these weird disk errors
<ball> Can you roll back to whatever came before (12.11 ?)
<ali1234> probably
<ali1234> i mean it's not supported at all
<ali1234> i can just wipe and reinstall though
 * ball nods
<ali1234> i always do that because upgrading is usually even worse
<ball> That's what I had in mind.
<ball> I'm about to pull the drive from this PC to put in my own.  I'll probably blow the cobwebs out and try installing Xubuntu on a PATA drive.
<ball> ...or something.
<ball> ...then on my own PC I'll try OpenIndiana
<ball> My daughter's PC seems to have done quite well with Xubuntu.
<diddledan_> I'm running 13.04 raring ringworm on three systems now. Apart from occasional prompts to report bugs for software I didn't even know was running, let alone had crashed, only one system is a problem.
<diddledan_> so you've got a 33% chance of failure based on my stats
<diddledan_> or if you subscribe to ali1234 a 110% chance
<diddledan_> :-p
<diddledan_> I need to sleep at some point tonight
<ali1234> everyone should subscribe to me on twitter, facebook, youtube, and google+
<diddledan_> anywho, my bug is reported: https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=63981
<lubotu3> Freedesktop bug 63981 in Driver/intel "MacBook Pro retina 13 inch early 2013 jittery display" [Major,New]
<ali1234> u1 now has a cloud icon
<ali1234> which made me think for a second indicator-weather was now a default
<diddledan_> how imaginative
<ali1234> i think it is a cloud. it looks like a cloud. i'm gonna say it's a cloud
<diddledan_> oh that might be classed as a bug I guess. my ati gfx card is displaying an amd overlay in the bottom right corner that says "amd unsupported hardware"
<diddledan_> it never used to do that
<ali1234> :<
<NeolNeol> hi
<NeolNeol> anyone can help?
<NeolNeol> how to play .trp files?
<NeolNeol> anyone can help?
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<popey> yo
<bigcalm> Goodness, what brings you online?
<bigcalm> I thought you'd be hiding from the world for a few more hours :P
<popey> well I have a flight in a few hours
<bigcalm> I'm meant to be working. So, of course, I am procrastinating
<bigcalm> Aha
<popey> so i should probably back
<popey> ttfn
<bigcalm> And pack
<bigcalm> Enjoy
<Myrtti> I'm waiting for the chauffeur to wake up so I can go to Tesco to look some eyeglass frames
<dwatkins> I find applying coffee often helps with that, Myrtti ;)
<Myrtti> dwatkins: mine doesn't drink coffee
<Myrtti> but talking of coffee, I want some now
<Myrtti> *squint*
<bigcalm> Myrtti: have you considered a company such as http://www.spex4less.com/ ?
<bigcalm> It's where I got my last pair from and probably future pairs as well
<Myrtti> I have, but I still need new frames for the lenses I already have
<bigcalm> Ah
<bigcalm> Is /etc/rc.local run before or after networking?
<bigcalm> Is there a way to run a file as root when a user logs into the desktop?
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: it says at the top "at the end of each multiuser runlevel"
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: so networking would be up at that time, I guess
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: check if consolekit has a hook.. I think it might
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: oh, at the end of 'each'?
<bigcalm> Humm
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: or PAM
<bigcalm> I'm trying to get my cifs shares to connect after networking is finished. Having the entries auto connect in fstab is causing errors
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: it works though
<MartijnVdS> for me
<MartijnVdS> it errors once, then when I log in, the cifs mounts _are_ there
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: yes, it works for me as well. I'm trying to remove the cifs errors that are visible when I shutdown
<mungbean> bigcalm, why not autofs?
<bigcalm> mungbean: why not Zoidberg? </woop-woop-woop-woop>
<bigcalm> Sorry :)
<bigcalm> Isn't autofs just for choosing the correct fs type?
<mungbean> automount
<mungbean> it's more on-=demand
<mungbean> and you don't statically mount at boot
<mungbean> it gets mounted by the autofs daemon when you request it
<bigcalm> Oh, ok
<bigcalm> I will try that upon my return from being a taxi to my gf
<Myrtti> oh you're on taxi duty too
<Myrtti> myh, suddenly craving a pizza with blue cheese
<Myrtti> silly UK pizza places not to have blue cheese as one of the toppings
<mungbean> eww
<mungbean> wouldnt be a big seller
<mgdm> I've had blue cheese on pizza before
<mgdm> it was great
<Myrtti> there's only one Finnish blue cheese and every kebab and pizza place has blue cheese on their menus
<Myrtti> how come the land of Stilton doesnÃ¤t
<Myrtti> doesn't, even
<Myrtti> mind you, creamier blues work better than stilton
 * dwatkins learned recently that there are blue chips / crisps.
 * bigcalm returns
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: physically blue, or just in a blue bag?
<dwatkins> mait appears they are actually blue: http://www.vitacost.com/garden-of-eatin-tortilla-chips-blue-chips-no-salt-added
<MartijnVdS> eww :)
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: we get these: http://www.atotzmarkt.nl/bestel/image/cache/ohd/bestel/image/ohd/881891-500x500.jpg
<MartijnVdS> they're just in a blue bag
<dwatkins> ah yes, I remember similar ones here
<kvarley> Ubuntu 13.04 "mount: unknown filesystem type 'exfat'"
<kvarley> Any ideas?
<alexcockell> HI all...
<alexcockell> Bit the bullet and accepted the update to Precise on my Ideapad S12... and am very impressed..
<dwatkins> kvarley: if you 'cat /proc/filesystems/' is it listed?
<dwatkins> not sure there's a slash on the end of that, actually
<kvarley> dwatkins: I had to install exfat-utils :)
<kvarley> Thanks tho dwatkins :)
<dwatkins> cool, good to know, thanks kvarley *installs it*
<kvarley> This is all down to me now having a 64GB microsd :D
<dwatkins> natty appears not to have that package, I guess it wasn't backported.
<dwatkins> I have one of those, it can be tricky getting it formatted, yeah.
<kvarley> I'm leaving it as exfat, gonna use it on my nexus 10
<redtape> shauno: I'm dreading going over to galway this Summer ..
<redtape> I just know I'll end up in some crappy traditional irish cafe at 8:30am on my way to Dublin to get the plane back with a hang-over.
<dwatkins> redtape: just be careful if you walk into a bar carrying a guitar - I had to play House of the Rising Sun all the way through, twice.
<redtape> play the guitar .. yeah :  'need a round tuit for that.
<penguin42> anyone with an Intel 86x series graphics running Raring who can pastebin there Xorg.0.log - I'm just looking at someones bug where it's running in 15bpp rather than 24 and wondered if anyone else hit it
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: mine's at 24bpp
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: 15bpp could be because of an LCD that reports it can't do more
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: His logs are showing it as the default prior to it doing display selection
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: no xorg.conf?
<MartijnVdS> [    88.199] (==) intel(0): Depth 24, (--) framebuffer bpp 32
<MartijnVdS> is the second line with "bpp" in my log
<MartijnVdS> first one is
<MartijnVdS>         "Default Screen Section" for depth/fbbpp 24/32
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: Yeh so there's is [    40.999] (==) intel(0): Depth 15, (--) framebuffer bpp 16
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: and the == according to the notes says that's the default not from command line or config file
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: which chip is it?
<MartijnVdS> Mine's a pre-Sandy Bridge i3
<MartijnVdS> (Clarkdale?)
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: I think there's is older -  bug  1173649
<lubotu3> bug 1173649 in xorg (Ubuntu) "incorrect color depth - intel graphics card" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1173649
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: But even so I'm fairly sure my ancient one does 24
<MartijnVdS> dmi.bios.date: 11/08/2004
<MartijnVdS> I'd call that ancient ;0
<MartijnVdS> :)
<penguin42> nah!
<MartijnVdS> I'm waiting for haswell to upgrade my desktop
<jacobw> Hmm, I've been using Linux for almost 8 years now.
<jacobw> I just installed Raring today
<jacobw> LibreOffice menu integration is still broken :|
<ali1234> notify-osd is still broken, unity is still broken, alsa is more broken than it was before
<ali1234> the kernel is now giving oops on every boot, suspend is broken
<mungbean> i dont remember debian being like that ali1234
<ali1234> compiz is as slow as ever, nouveau still doesn't work
<ali1234> empathy still can't do irc
 * mungbean wonders if ali1234 has got round to trying elementary yet
<penguin42> ali1234: Oh empathy can do irc, it's more of a challenge to find how as far as I remember - I've done it in the past, I've always hated trying to get it to
<ali1234> elementary has a dock so i will never use it
<mungbean> try it anyway
<mungbean> just to see whats nice about it
<ali1234> oh look, opening a 10x10 glxgears still causes compiz to freeze for 3 seconds any time it tries to do an animation
<mungbean> app launcher, sppeed etc
<ali1234> elementary window manager is a fork of mutter so it is fast, because it is not compiz
<mungbean> unity launcher takes 15 secs to open on my laptop
<ali1234> you can get that speed on ubuntu by just not using compiz
<mungbean> yes, well elemntary uses ubuntu core
<mungbean> 12.04 tho
<mungbean> dr who seems to be red dwarf tonight
<jacobw> Files is the worst file manager I've ever used.
<jacobw> While we're on the topic of things that suck in Ubuntu.
<ali1234> you mean nautilus
<ali1234> you can blame gnome for that one
<jacobw> Konqueror and Dolphin are great, Nautilus was tolerable in GNOME 2, Nautilus in GNOME 3 has been a series of misguided attempts at cover flow in a file manager.
<ali1234> dolphin is utter rubbish
<jacobw> Why?
<ali1234> it's exactly the same as nautilus except none of the text and icons line up properly
<ali1234> and it has a massive panel at the bottom that you can't get rid of
<ali1234> and another one at the side that you can get rid of temporarily but it always comes back
<ali1234> oh and you can make it open on double click without making the entire of KDE behave the same way
<ali1234> konqueror is even worse, having all these problems plus it cannot decide if it is a file manager or web browser or text editor or image viewer - it always wants to embed everything
<ali1234> it's also very slow
<jacobw> BUt you can split the view, use a terminal, search on criteria, use actions and select disjointed items graphically
<ali1234> i have no idea what you are talking about
<jacobw> All these things are flat out impossible in Nautilus
<ali1234> nautilus isn't a terminal emulator
<ali1234> if you want to views we have this thing called a window manager that lets you put two windows side by side. nautilus is also not a window manager
<ali1234> if you want to select items graphically press the ctrl key, like in every file manager ever
<ali1234> i'm not sure what you mean with the other, how else would you search other than on criteria?
<jacobw> So applications shouldn't offer multiple views?
<ali1234> and "use actions" does not even appear to mean anything at all
<mungbean> does it do vertical tezt like amarok? eww
<ali1234> everything in KDE does that
<jacobw> In Files, I can search on file name or type, and on in my home directory or not in my home directory.
<ali1234> yes, the search in nautilus is now a joke
<ali1234> luckily i never used it anyway
<jacobw> In Dolphin, I have many more criteria on which I can search
<ali1234> i don't doubt it
<ali1234> i expect there are so many options that they fill up 2/3 of the screen when you have the search tab open
<ali1234> which is no better
<jacobw> I prefer functionality to pointless aesthetics
<jacobw> Files doesn't even offer any improvement on Nautilus
<ali1234> then use the shell for everything
<jacobw> I .. basically do.
<jacobw> GUIs can provide more functionality than the shell
<ali1234> files has a massively improved listview
<mungbean> can i see?
<ali1234> the crazy treeview that made no sense is gone
<jacobw> The shell isn't the end of functionality
<mungbean> the listview
<mbs_> Quick question, in dconf 13.04 panel no longer exists for the unity entry, how do i allow Cryptkeeper applet like i did in 12.10?
<Guest9559> hi i am using ubuntu 13.04 and has got epson stylus sx 100. was trying to clean the printer head and wanted a GUI for escputil. i remmebr having stylus tool box for earlier ubuntus. is it possible to install the same on ubuntu 13.04. thanks in advance
<penguin42> Guest9559: Can mtink do it?
<Guest9559> penguin42, i have installed mtlink and has tried that already
<Guest9559> i am getting an error message
 * penguin42 tries to guess the error message - or will you tell us?
 * penguin42 hasn't tried it for a while since our Epson printer died
<Guest9559> penguin42, problem with the printer communication, please check the printer for errors, "out of paper", "no ink", "or printer not powered". note that some printer block for few seconds after powering on
<penguin42> Guest9559: Hmm, I've got vague memories of some permission problems but can't remember - as I say it was a year or two since our Epson died
<Guest9559> penguin42, i had the permission problem which i sorted adding username onto the gropup. once it sorted now the error message comes as above
<penguin42> hmm ok; then not got much ideas on that then - some of the printer settings guis had options for ink status
<mungbean> another mediocre dr who
<penguin42> ...not been any good ones since Tom Baker....
<mungbean> are u my mummy was good until last 5 mins
<penguin42> tbh I haven't watched many since Tom Baker
<redtape> OT | The sad state of british gaming ... What have we become ? http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/the-bitjackers-randomly-generated-infinite-twin-stick-shooter-for-pc
<ali1234> robotron?
<redtape> ali1234: mmm maybe . but I just feel sorry for the kid .
<ali1234> what kid?
<redtape> that's just a generalisation.
<ali1234> wat
<redtape> i mean 'kid' as in programmer.
<ali1234> why?
<redtape> well if you watch the video.. it looks pretty sad.
<ali1234> he's a game developer. what were you expecting?
<redtape> something less pathetic and 'gimme'.
<ali1234> he only wants 11 grand
<ali1234> that's cheap
<redtape> i am talking about his manner and demeanour ..
<ali1234> and again, it;s a website where people ask for money...
<redtape> yeah, but the guy ends up talking to himself ..
<ali1234> it is what it is
<ali1234> i've seen far worse campaigns where's it's just some piece of tat with a good marketing campaign
<redtape> true.. I'm not saying this is the sadest .. I'm just saying it's sad ..
<redtape> Anyway .. how's the btc's going ?
<ali1234> good
<ali1234> i spent some when it was at $200
<ali1234> i got reddit gold for a year
<redtape> sounds good .. how much was that ?
<ali1234> it was about 0.2 btc i think
<redtape> you mentioned a mega-coin .. what is that in btcoins exactly ?
<ali1234> no idea, never heard of it
<redtape> oh .. ignore that, then.
<redtape> so do you think it will top 300 dolars this year ?
<ali1234> no idea
<redtape> i thnk it will if another mtgox open up .. but that may be a while.
<ali1234> wat
<ali1234> there's about 10 exchanges
<redtape> surely they are just shadows aren't they ?
<ali1234> no
<redtape> according to the bitcoin channel on youtube they are (??)
<Guest63664> hi guys. I use ubuntu 13.04 with firefox (came with ubuntu default). for some reason firefox stops playing streming vedios exactly at 14s. its not there with youtube but only with certain sites. http://www.manoramanews.com/cgi-bin/MMOnline.dll/portal/ep/mmtvVideoGallery.do?tabId=14&BV_ID=@@@ is an example (after the add). can come one help.please.thanks in advance
<redtape> oh boy .. I'll move aside while someone handles this ...
<ali1234> same result here
<Guest63664> popey, I use ubuntu 13.04 with firefox (came with ubuntu default). for some reason firefox stops playing streming vedios exactly at 14s. its not there with youtube but only with certain sites. http://www.manoramanews.com/cgi-bin/MMOnline.dll/portal/ep/mmtvVideoGallery.do?tabId=14&BV_ID=@@@ is an example (after the add). can come one help.please.thanks in advance
<redtape> oh well 'nother Sunday ..
#ubuntu-uk 2013-04-28
<kaushal> Hi
<kaushal> Finally I have upgraded Ubuntu to 13.04 from 11.10 :D
<kaushal> its pretty fast
<kaushal> are there unity lens for pidgin?
<kaushal> on 13.04
<kaushal> Hi
<kaushal> Mobile broadband doesnot do "automatically connect to the network when it is available" inspite of enabling checkbox in Network Connections?
<kaushal> Any clue?
<SuperMatt> would it be mean of me to install ubuntu on my grandad's aging dell machine with windows vista?
<daubers> Morning
 * awilkins grunts through his coffee
 * awilkins expresses his opinion that the new file manager icon for the Raring launcher is rubbish and the old one was better
<brobostigon> good morning eveyrone,
<brobostigon> i wonder if there is a way of pulling the tv program marks, of a sky boxes program planner, onto either my pc or android?
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: TV program marks? you mean the schedule?
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: i mean, when i mark something, as a reminder, for it to remind me, something i want to watch is on.
<MartijnVdS> ah
<MartijnVdS> I think that's going to be hard.
<MartijnVdS> unless they push it to their end and have a web service to retrieve it
<brobostigon> thats what i thought, might be easier to program both seperatly.
<ocean> Hi guys. I am using ubuntu 13.04 with mozilla firefox as the web browser (default version on ubuntu 13.04). I have noticed that firefox stop streaming some media content around 15 to 20s (that is after playing the add)  but  keep saying âbufferingâ but would never play it again. I had this issue with previous versions of ubuntu but google chrome browser was spared but seems its chromium broswser is affected on ubuntu 13.04.
<ocean> please see a link to one of the websites where it happens
<ocean> http://www.manoramanews.com/cgi-bin/MMOnline.dll/portal/ep/mmtvContentView.do?contentId=13949035&programId=9958837&tabId=14&BV_ID=@@@
<ocean> please guide me and any help would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.
<dwatkins> does other flash-based content play okay, ocean/guest63321, such as youtube videos?
<Guest63321> dwatkins, yeah intrestingly youtube has been playing allright (including on previous versions of ubuntu)
<brobostigon> flash youtube or html5 youtube?
<Guest63321> brobostigon, sorry brob. I just installed ubuntu restricted extras and it started playing youtube without any problem. not quiet sure if it is flash or html. when i right clik on youtube videos it says "about flash player at the end of the menu. sorry does that help
<brobostigon> Guest63321: what does about:plugins say in both?
<brobostigon> ok, brb, house work to do,
<Guest63321> brobostigon, about:plugins give so many options. which one exactly should i look for
<brobostigon> Guest63321: adobe flash, to see if it has been recognised properly.
<Guest63321> brobostigon, i cant see the the adobe flash plugin anywhere under the plugins even under the video plugins
<brobostigon> Guest63321: chrome isnt affected, because it has adobe flash built into itself. which of course because is closed software isnt included in either FF or chromium. i cant really help more thasn that, i dont even have flash installed, except for its own install in chrome, sorry.
<Guest63321> brobostigon, the chrome that i installed from the repo has the same problem on ubuntu 13.04 as i have just cheked. it start playing the video and stop at 20s.
<brobostigon> Guest63321: good question, i really dont know, sorry.
<Guest63321> brobostigon, http://pastebin.ca/2368831 is the pastebin of the plugin if u would liek to have a llok
<Guest63321> brobostigon, thats okay. thanks for ur help anyway
<kvarley> SuperMatt: Surely it would be liberating
<dwatkins> Guest63321: did these video streams play before or on other operating systems from your location?
<Guest63321> dwatkins, yes they are playing okay on windows. and has been playing alright on chrome browser on ubuntu 12.10 or before.
<dwatkins> hmm, no idea, sorry - perhaps check the forums
<Guest63321> dwatkins, is that afeected from ur location as well?
<dwatkins> eh?
<Guest63321> dwatkins, is that firefox and ubuntu?
<dwatkins> I'm not sure, but if you've narrowed the diagnosis down to 'firefox running on 13.04' and in other operating systems from your location the problem doesn't exist, it would seem to be a problem with 13.04 and/or that version of firefox, not a proxy server from your ISP or something (unless it's just a configuration issue, or you have the flash cache set too low)
<dwatkins> right click on a video, go to settings (not global settings, just settings) and check that the local storage isn't something really small like 10 kilobytes, Guest63321
<Guest63321> dwatkins, intrstingly firefox has been affected on previous versions of ubuntu (atleast 3 previous versions) but was not a problem for me as chrome was playing them all fine. but on ubuntu 13.04 both chrome and FF is affected
<dwatkins> if you create a new user account on the same PC, does it have the problem, Guest63321?
<Guest63321> dwatkins, i havent tried that yet on ubuntu.
<kvarley> How can I launch skype without having to do "LD_PRELOAD=/usr/lib/i386-linux-gnu/mesa/FGL.renamed.libGL.so.1.2.0 skype" each time? I don't want to change the shortcut command, I want to fix the issue
<dwatkins> that would rule-out a configuration issue, to a certain extent (i.e. rule out a user configuration problem)
<dwatkins> kvarley: log a bug with Microsoft?
<kvarley> dwatkins: They're so ignorant that won't happen haha
<kvarley> But I see your point, nothing anybody can really do aside from MS
<dwatkins> kvarley: I doubt they're ignorant, unless you mean they will ignore you.
<Guest63321> dwatkins, could u tell me if that website is using adobe flash or html5? did u have a look at the pastebin of my plugins?
<dwatkins> Guest63321: your website (in Hindi, I assume) uses Flash
<Guest63321> dwatkins, could u please have a look at my plugins on FF to see if everything installed alright. http://pastebin.ca/2368867 tx for the help.
<dwatkins> looks ok, Guest63321 - try creating another user account to see if it's just a configuration problem restricted to that one user account
<Guest63321> dwatkins, would try that one as well. just oen more query..any clue why youtube is not affected and that particula website is affected even though both are flash?
<dwatkins> no, sorry, probably something to do with them being different applications, both flash-based but written differently
<Guest63321> oh okay, thanks for the help dwatkins
<dwatkins> :)
<dogmatic69> anyone got a clue how I could match my monitor to printer?
<dogmatic69> HP M25ln colour laserjet with samsung P2350 and nvidia drivers?
<penguin42> oh colour matching - hmm
<penguin42> dogmatic69: http://www.freedesktop.org/software/colord/intro.html ?
<dogmatic69> ye, difference between on screen vs printed is huge :(
<dogmatic69> I cant seem to find icc files for the screen / printer yet
<penguin42> is there no scheme to print something and match it with something somehow?
<celesteh> Hey, I have a n00b question: I've installed ubuntu studio 13.04 beta 2 and i see on their website they've now got the point release up. If I've been doing the system updates, does that mean i'm not at the release version or do i need to re-install?
<dogmatic69> penguin42: not sure, have not seen anything like that
<penguin42> celesteh: If you've got the beta and you do an update you should match the release
<penguin42> https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-color-manager/3.1/gnome-color-manager.html  talks about using a hardware tool which I guess is a pricey thing
<dogmatic69> I saw a opensource one for Â£60
<dogmatic69> plugs in to usb and does some magic
<penguin42> nod
<penguin42> hmm you don't have a scanner, so it's a case of getting the printer and monitor to match or both to match some standard I guess
<celesteh> thanks penguin42!
<dogmatic69> penguin42: nope
<penguin42> dogmatic69: ?
<dogmatic69> no scanner
<dogmatic69> well I got a copy / fax / scan thing, but does not work on my pc (atm / ever?)
<penguin42> dogmatic69: You'd think you'd be able to print some standard picture, hold it up against the monitor and tweek it until they matched and rinse/repeat
<dogmatic69> ye, maybe.
<dogmatic69> thats kinda like saying you could tune a piano by listening to the radio ;)
<penguin42> well that's why I said about the scanner - you have nothing to feed back
<penguin42> dogmatic69: If you had some external printed thing that you had the digital image for you might work - e.g. a professionally printed leaflet/cd that you also had the digital input to
<dogmatic69> ye
<penguin42> or a set of pantone mugs
<dogmatic69> maybe I can do something with pantones
<dogmatic69> ye
<penguin42> or perhaps just take a photo of something, take it to a good shop to get it printed and use it as  a reference?
<dogmatic69> also somehow got to match my camera
<penguin42> hmm then you're closing the loop
<dogmatic69> my problem is 1) take a pic, 2) ufraw settings to look good 3) print, almost black
<dogmatic69> will try something now, got to pop to the store before it closes.
<penguin42> the change in support lifetime for non-LTS is curious; I think that means Quantal is supported until after Raring goes out of support
<shauno> sounds about right.  not sure it'll have a whole lot of real impact though
<celesteh> Re-asking a question I'm still having trouble with: I have a tablet computer with a touch screen and a stylus.  When I plug it into aprojector and mirror the displays, my screen geometry changes, usually to be less wide, but the geometry for the stylus does not seem to change. Is there a way to get my stylus to recalibrate to match the screen?  (I'm reading stuff about xset wacom and xrandr. Am I on the right track?)
<celesteh> s/xset wacom/xsetwacom/
<penguin42> shauno: Yeh, it's a bit of an odd way around
<shauno> it's quite a predictable hiccup.  you either do that, or withdraw previously offered support on previous releases, which would be quite unpopular
<penguin42> I guess so
<shauno> the bit that does confuse me is 9 months rather than 12.  it'd seem more straightforward to just say "we support current and current-1"
<penguin42> yeh indeed, I mean if it was 12 at least they'd both end at the same time rather than in reverse order
<penguin42> at the moment there is incentive for non-open stuff to skip raring, since if they have something working on Q they know it will outlast raring
<celesteh> Is there a way that a script could be invoked automatically every time the display changes geometry?
<SuperMatt> I wonder if upstart will be able to manage that now it can do userspace stuff
<celesteh> ah, thanks for the lead. this looks promising
<SuperMatt> I can't promise anything though
<SuperMatt> so I installed ubuntu on my grandad's PC. One thing I though that was obviously a plus: being able to change the size of the launcher so that the icons were big enough for him to see clearly
<SuperMatt> did a lot of things too, like make all the fonts bigger
<SuperMatt> I've also opened ssh up to me so I can fix things remotely
<penguin42> yeh getting that stuff right is important
<brobostigon> SuperMatt: gnome3 has such an option, to enlarge everything.
<SuperMatt> sure sure
<brobostigon> SuperMatt: it does, in accessability settings.
 * brobostigon point at the option, ---->
 * SuperMatt nods
<brobostigon> points*
<SuperMatt> I'm going with unity because it's what I know better
<SuperMatt> but if he doesn't like it, he can call me and I can put anything I like on there :D
<brobostigon> i havent used unity a huge amount, so no idea with that.
<SuperMatt> interesting, my grandad has had the pc on for half an hour and he hasn't called me in a mad panic
<brobostigon> :)
<jacobw> brobostigon: Have you tried Cinnamon?
<brobostigon> jacobw: i have not, i dont think it is packged for debian sid.
<jacobw> I'm not sure either
<jacobw> http://packages.debian.org/unstable/main/cinnamon
<brobostigon> ah, there you go,
<brobostigon> !info cinnamon experimental
<lubotu3> 'experimental' is not a valid distribution: extras, hardy, hardy-backports, hardy-proposed, kubuntu-backports, kubuntu-experimental, kubuntu-updates, lucid, lucid-backports, lucid-proposed, medibuntu, oneiric, oneiric-backports, oneiric-proposed, partner, precise, precise-backports, precise-proposed, quantal, quantal-backports, quantal-proposed, raring, raring-backports, raring-proposed, stable, testing, unstable
<brobostigon> !info cinnamon unstable
<lubotu3> cinnamon (source: cinnamon): Innovative and comfortable desktop. In component main, is optional. Version 1.7.4-2 (unstable), package size 619 kB, installed size 2485 kB
<penguin42> it's in raring as well I think
<jacobw> There's occasional problems with incompatibilities betweenn Cinnamon and GNOME where the Cinnamon fork of a program requires a particular version of something from GNOME
<Esor> Hi. I'm experiencing a weird issue. Everytime I press FN audio volume control buttons It goes up or down to maximum and then it freezes unity and I've to reset my pc.
<jacobw> I don't think there's any current problems in Debian, there's was some problems in Arch recently but the Cinnamon developers fixed their forks to work with the new version of GNOME
<brobostigon> jacobw: wjats the difference anyway. and dont tell me, it is just the gui thats different, as that doesnt bother me.
<jacobw> It's a replacement of GNOME's shell with a traditional desktop emulating shell and forks a fork of Nautilus called Nemo
<jacobw> s/forks//
<brobostigon> ok, so they making an emulation of the more traditional gnome2 like gui?
<penguin42> jacobw: I've used Mate a lot - they did the fork from Gnome2 and renamed stuff
<jacobw> It's analogous to MATE, where MATE is fork of GNOME 2 using GTK 2 and Cinnamon is a fork of GNOME 3 using GTK 3.
<Myrtti> I personally don't see the point of MATE at all. XFCE4 would in most cases serve the purpose of it
<ali1234> yeah unless you like to be able to adjust the volume on your computer
<ali1234> or have more than one window not-minimized at the same time
<Myrtti> I'm running xfce4 right now and I don't have problems with either of those things
<ali1234> !wfm
<lubotu3> Common Sense: Just because you can, does not mean you should (and especially recommend to others). Think before you do. "Works for me" does not mean it is ok. The latest version of everything is not always useful if you aim for stability. Please see http://geekosophical.net/random/worksforme/
<Myrtti> ali1234: you do realise that that factoid works both ways
<Myrtti> just because something doesn't work for you, doesn't necessarily mean it's broken for everyone
<jacobw> It depends on your use case in both cases.
<mungbean> my only problem with xfce was lack of compositing
<Myrtti> incidental evidence of something (not) working doesn't mean it's universal
<ali1234> bug 1085752
<lubotu3> bug 883485 in xfce4-volumed (Ubuntu) "duplicate for #1085752 Pulse Audio don't get unmuted when XF86AudioMute is used" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/883485
<Myrtti> mungbean: oh? that's weird, I've had compositing in XFCE4 for years
<mungbean> xcompmgr?
<ali1234> xfce has compositing, but it does not do anything useful so you might as well turn it off, because compositing is slow
<ali1234> yu can use compiz with xfce if you want functional compositing, but then you get things like this happening: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4byH8Pxp0oE
<Myrtti> mungbean: it's in window manager tweaks
<mungbean> so would plank/docky work ok with it?
<Myrtti> well yes, you can't do much with it, but my personal experience on compositing is that it has a limited amount of usefulness with it anyway
<ali1234> bug 1130388
<lubotu3> bug 1130388 in xfce4-panel (Ubuntu) "Compiz/xfce4-panel will only display windows from one application at a time." [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1130388
<Myrtti> (my main use being that I can see the analogue clock widget behind my terminal window)
<ali1234> xfce also lacks any kind of ubuntu integration - ie U1, indicators etc
<Myrtti> anyway, sorry I interrupted your discussion with my anecdotal opinion. Clearly you didn't need or want it.
<ali1234> then again mate does too so there's not much difference there
<celesteh> !info stylus
<ali1234> yeah you're right. it was silly of me to point out facts when you're busy handing out opinions backed by nothing at all
<lubotu3> Package stylus does not exist in quantal
<Myrtti> ali1234: yeah sorry I don't have a bug report of "my xfce4 works fine, this is an outrage"
<jacobw> We've just been through this WFM thing :|
<Myrtti> yeah, and I equally mentioned that it works both ways, the fact that some people experience problems with a piece of software doesn't invalidate the fact that some people might not have those issues.
<Myrtti> but I'm absolutely fine with people running MATE too.
<jacobw> Well, that's why we have triaging and bug reports.
<jacobw> It's hard to triage something that works.
<celesteh> Not to wade into a fine flamewar here, but xfce is frequently used by ubuntustudio types who do use sound and multiple apps at the same time.  although not pulse audio so much....
<Myrtti> I personally don't (have to) understand why people develop or use it, but I also can't stop them and whatever they do doesn't have any effect in my usage of it.
<Myrtti> meh
<ali1234> i feel the same way about XFCE actually
<penguin42> Myrtti: There are a few things I missed in Xfce that Gnome2 had, and for people who had a nice working Gnome2 setup that they just wanted to stick with it works nicely
<Myrtti> my usage or non usage of it.
<ali1234> it is slightly better than MATE but not enough to justify it's existence
<Myrtti> I clearly need more tea, I can't even think straight. I've already caught myself butchering my native language twice today
<ali1234> ultimately they are both based on outdated gtk2 which is the reason so much stuff is broken with them
<Myrtti> ali1234: true. It's really annoying when I don't like Gnome Shell, KDE or Gnome2 that much, and have a limited amount of options for anything else. Unity was alright, but it was so buggy that I kinda resorted to the last known working option, which for me was XFCE4 and GTK3
 * penguin42 hasn't had problems with stuff being broken with Mate
<jacobw> GNOME 2 is a huge project to maintain
<penguin42> nod
<ali1234> so is XFCE if you want it to have all the same features
<penguin42> jacobw: The big problem is when things like udisks2 happen and you get other major system changes
<ali1234> until they get around to porting it to gtk3
<jacobw> See how Project Trinity worked out with KDE 3, I think Cinnamon is much more likely to suceed because it's a set of changes on top on an active project
<Myrtti> Yeah, I can see Cinnamon living, but in my eyes MATE is a dead end
<penguin42> jacobw: Yeh although it depends on how close they can get it to matching the Gnome2 feel - when I first tried it it was still missing things enough to annoy me
<jacobw> If they maintain compatibility with the latest version of GNOME, which they've already stated is not high on their agenda, then I think they can provide an alternative in the long term.
<ali1234> if you just want gnome2 feel then just carry on sing gnome-panel, it still works fine
<penguin42> ali1234: It's not just about gnome-panel
<Myrtti> I thought that was axed too
<ali1234> no, someone took over maintaining it
<Myrtti> cool
<ali1234> penguin42: what's missing then?
<penguin42> ali1234: It's a while since I've used it; but from what I remember the gnome-panel that was there was less flexible than the gnome2 one, and things like what you could put on your background were different, and a load of other layouts, behaviours of nautilus etc - enough for it still not to 'feel' like Gnome2
<ali1234> gnome-panel 3 is slightly less flexible but most f the changes are good, ie they fixed the "applets move around" bug
<ali1234> you can still put applets anywhere you want pretty much, but now they are grouped left/middle/right so they don't move on resize
<jacobw> Was that bug tracked by GNOME?
<ali1234> yes
<ali1234> the panel background thing... you can still do that afaik
<ali1234> nautilus is a different problem, it has been forked a couple of times if you don't like the changes
<penguin42> ali1234: The nice thing with Mate is it's just the same as Gnome2, so if you have it the way you like - however that is - then you can stick the same
<ali1234> even the new nautilus is better than the xfce file manager though
<jacobw> I was annoyed to find Files was worse then Nautilus when I tried Raring yesterday.
<ali1234> File *is* Nautilus
<jacobw> I know
<ali1234> i made a ppa with the full date patch btw: https://launchpad.net/~a-j-buxton/+archive/nautilus
<jacobw> Nautilus ends, Files begins.
<jacobw> Thanks :)
<ali1234> that's really the only thing i don;t like about the new look
<penguin42> the problem is every few releases they add something nice and remove something you really liked/relied upon
<ali1234> i've also made a ppa for notify-osd fixes since the guy who normal maintains it hasn't updated for raring yet
<jacobw> Somehow, despite everything. I still like Unity.
<ali1234> i kind of like some of it
<jacobw> Mainly because I don't have to use the mouse at all with the shell, and the HUD, the terminal and Vimperator :)
<ali1234> i fail to see the logic of running a gui and then not using the mouse to control it
<jacobw> I still want use GUI elements, I just don't want to select them with a mouse.
<ali1234> first thing i do in unity is unbind all it's keyboard shortcuts
<ocean22> Hi guys.
<ocean22> Not sure if this is an ubuntu problem and I can post this up here. Guide me to the right place if it must be at some other places please.
<ocean22> I am using ubuntu 13.04 with mozilla firefox as the web browser (default version on ubuntu 13.04). I have noticed that firefox stop streaming some media content around 15 to 20s (that is after playing the add) but keep saying âbufferingâ but would never play it again. I had this issue with previous versions of ubuntu but google chrome browser was spared but seems its chromium broswser (installed from repo) is affected on ubuntu
<ocean22>  13.04.
<ocean22> but intrestingly, youtube has never been affected and still not. i ahvent done anything apart from installing ubuntu restricted extras to start playing youtube videos.
<ocean22> please see a link to one of the websites where it happens
<ocean22> http://www.manoramanews.com/cgi-bin/...d=14&BV_ID=@@@
<ocean22> please guide me and any help would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.
<ali1234> i reproduced this problem ^
<ali1234> it's probably a fault with flash
<ocean22> ali1234, tx is there any fix that u could think off.
<ocean22> ?
<ali1234> not really no
<ali1234> you could try using chrome
<ali1234> however, it doesn't install properly on 13.04 at the moment
<ali1234> otherwise i would have tested with it too
<ocean22> ali1234, i have installed chrome for repo but has got the same problem.
<ali1234> it should be fixed soon though
<ali1234> chrome isn't in the repo, that is chromium, it is different
<ali1234> chromium uses the same flash plugin as firefox
<ali1234> chrome uses a different one
<ali1234> actually, chromium can use the different one too, but it doesn't by default because it can't be shipped in ubuntu
<ocean22> ali1234, oh I c. so the chromium and google chrome browser is that diffrent
<ali1234> they aren't that different, they just use a different flash plugin
<ali1234> you could try manually installing the chrome flash in chromium
<ali1234> it's not easy though
<ali1234> here are some instructions. i never tried this... http://www.webupd8.org/2012/09/how-to-make-chromium-use-flash-player.html
<ocean22> ali1234, oh okay. can i install google chrome broswer at present on ubuntu 13.04. good to know chromium and google chrome is diffrent
<ali1234> if you try to install google chrome on 13.04 today you get an error about missing dependencies. it should be fixed soon
<ali1234> you can work around it in various ways
<ocean22> is that an easy fix, any link if u have! i can wait if thats too complicated for a noob. tx for the help
<sara> hello
<bootkigftrgds> hi sara
<sara> i have a k53u asus pc with this hardware: http://paste.ubuntu.com/5613127/ and  ubuntu 13.04 as the ubuntu version, and for the past few releases Bluetooth has not worked. I tried reinstalling Ubuntu and Bluez
<sara> however bluetooth still does not work
<redtape> popey, sara needs yur help (sorry I can't help sara).. Anyone else feel-free to pitch in ..
<redtape> sara, it may take a couple of hours to get a proper response .. (go make a cuppa tea ).
<brobostigon> sara: does it show in lspci/dmesg ?
<sara> brobostigon, http://paste.ubuntu.com/5613127/ lspci
<sara> as already linked
<brobostigon> moment,
<Myrtti> redtape: why ping him, he's across the world probably busy getting over the jetlag. It seems silly to poke a specific person when the whole channel has possibility of being of help. He's not omniscient or omnipotent.
<redtape> ok fine.
<brobostigon> sara: i see no bluetooth device there, do you have it disabled somehow? like in bios or some hw control.?
<sara> Hw Control?
<sara> what is that
<brobostigon> sara: like a kb button?
<brobostigon> or similer.
<brobostigon> to turn it on or off.
<brobostigon> sara: also check in your bios, it might be turned off there.
<penguin42> is bt normally pci - or is it usb?
<Myrtti> I'd just do sudo lshw
<Myrtti> and pastebin that
<sara> Please can i make a request
<brobostigon> lshw, good idea.
<brobostigon> sara: fire away.
<redtape> i can do song request, not much else ^_^
<sara> If it is not essential then can we avoid abbreviations
<sara> I have severe Dyslexia
<brobostigon> ok, sorry.
<sara> I can try "sudo lshw"
<sara> http://paste.ubuntu.com/5613170/
<sara> redtape,  brobostigon  Myrtti
<brobostigon> sara: is it built in or usb?
<sara> Its inside the laptop and has worked with Windows. I no longer have Windows
<Myrtti> I just realised I don't get my bluetooth listed with lshw either
<sara> brobostigon, http://www.asus.com/Notebooks_Ultrabooks/K53U/ this
<brobostigon> sara: have a browse on launchpad.net/ubuntu under bugs, and try and find your laptop model, it seems like it either doesnt recognise it at all, or it is disabled somehow.
<sara> brobostigon, i tried it on every edition of ubuntu since 11.04
<sara> nothing.
<sara> it is the same story on my eeepc
<brobostigon> sara: exactly, it might be a direct bug in the kernel or similer, hence i am suggesting uo utry and find if it has already been reported as a bug, and if there is a solution mentioned.
<ali1234> bluetooth is nearly always usb even when internal
<ali1234> lshw does not list usb devices
<sara> i have been looking for a while, heck i reported it several times and still the same old story my bug reports are not useful, i guess i need a hand submissting a good bug report
<ali1234> pastebin lsusb please
<sara> http://paste.ubuntu.com/5613221/ ali1234
<ali1234> line 435 is your bluetooth device
<sara> ok
<dwatkins> https://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/bluez/+question/194654 might be relevant, but I don't know how to use rfkill.
<brobostigon> ali1234: thats interesting, that internal bluetooth adaptors show as usb. i have never had an internal one, only external. good to know.
<dwatkins> sara: "rfkill list" might show some useful information
<ali1234> sara: please pastebin output from hciconfig -a
<sara> http://paste.ubuntu.com/5613314/ dwatkins
<sara> ali1234, http://paste.ubuntu.com/5613319/
<dwatkins> sara: interesting, it implies there are two bluetooth interfaces, unless I'm reading it wrong; neither appear to have been disabled in hardware, however, so it's not Windows' fault.
<sara> i am using a ubuntu only system
<dwatkins> I wondered if Windows had disabled the device at firmware level last time you booted it before reinstalling with Ubuntu, but that doesn't seem to be the case.
<sara> i installed bluetooth manager as bluetooth was not working
<dwatkins> interesting, AMD list their 'maiden name': Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] nee ATI
<directhex> dwatkins, for grep usage, i guess
<ali1234> sara: pastebin output of dmesg please
<sara> http://paste.ubuntu.com/5613338/
<sara> ali1234,
<ali1234> sara: is your wireless working?
<sara> yes
<ali1234> bug 1041883
<lubotu3> bug 1041883 in linux (Ubuntu Quantal) "Recent patch to asus-wmi module makes system unbootable" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1041883
<bigcalm> Good evening peeps :)
<sara_> i pinged out as i changed my connection from lan0 to wilan
<sara_> i am using wilan now and its working
<sara_> @ ali1234
<ali1234> sara_: try reseting bios default
<sara_> ?
<sara_> ali1234, i am unsure what you mean
<ali1234> this person has same problem: http://www.ae.iitm.ac.in/pipermail/ilugc/2012-September/073438.html
<ali1234> never got an answer
<sara_> X53U not a K53U
<sara_> Mine is a K53U
<ali1234> https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?pid=1056546 same person
<ali1234> sara_: yes but it's the same bluetooth module and identical symptoms
<ali1234> ah, a known bug: https://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=42932
<lubotu3> bugzilla.kernel.org bug 42932 in Bluetooth "bluetooth device is found but cannot use" [High,Resolved: patch_already_available]
<ali1234> well the good news is we can fix i
<ali1234> the bad news is you need to rebuild the kernel
<sara_> ali1234, what???
<sara_> that sounds scary
<sara_> i am a newbie and like simple
<ali1234> i need to check which kernel versions have the patch
<sara_> ali1234,  i amscared of doing that
<ali1234> why?
<Myrtti> well there might be a kernel ppa
<Myrtti> or something
<ali1234> Myrtti: that's why i need to check which versions have the patch (if any)
<sara_> Myrtti, ppa pleeeeaaaaaasssssseeeeeee
<Myrtti> sorry, dinnertime :-/
<sara_> Myrtti, where are you?
<sara_> if in glasgow come over i can cook
<sara_> :)
<sara_> lol
<moreati> can we assume this patch will make it into the main repo? Sara are you able to wait a few months?
<sara_> i waited 2 years
<sara_> i am not exagerating either
<ali1234> moreati: it might already be there?
<ali1234> moreati: for that matter, the patch might be *causing* this issue
<ali1234> i will know more when i finish cloning the source
<moreati> ali1234: then I misunderstooding the situation, I withdraw the question
<ali1234> the patch is more likely to get accepted if more people complain about it
<moreati> misunderstooding? Clearly I've drunk too mcuh/too little tonight
<ali1234> or, if it's breaking things, to get reverted
<ali1234> if the patch isn't in ubuntu now it's unlikely to show up before 13.10
<ali1234> first step however, is testng against the mainline ppa
<ali1234> but need to know which versions to test
<sara_> I am really frustrated. I have waited for YEARS. still nothing and have filed NUMERIOUS bug reports and its effecting/affecting others not just me... still nothing. I have used Ubuntu since hardy heron...
<penguin42> sara_: Well there's no point in filing lots of bugs - 1 will do if it gets sorted!
<penguin42> sara_: But it's difficult with hardware specific bugs
<directhex> ultimately bug reports themselves don't get sorted, unless developers are idle. canonical's developers are overworked and burned out.
<directhex> so stuff gets triaged
<penguin42> especially for hardware bugs that the devs don't necessarily have access to
<penguin42> directhex: It's universally true for all devs I think
<sara_> every time i file a bug its dismissed as incomplete
<penguin42> directhex: There are interesting problems of what you do when you have more bug reports than you can possibly handle; true on almost every large project I know of; of course all the critical 'breaks for everyone' bugs get fixed first, but then everything else is difficult to do
<ali1234> sara_: don't worry about it, it wouldn't have got fixed anyway
<penguin42> sara_: Ah well unless you followed up and provided the information they would, they go to incomplete unless you can provide the info
<penguin42> sara_: The point is you move a bug back from incomplete to new once you provide the info
<ali1234> i mean someone has reported it properly and provided a patch and it *still* isn't fixed
<sara_> http://www.ubuntu.com/certification/hardware/201110-9891/
<sara_> it's certified hardware
<dwatkins> I don't see the bluetooth adapter on there, unfortunately.
<sara_> "Network
<sara_>     Realtek Semiconductor Co., Ltd. RTL8111/8168 PCI Express Gigabit Ethernet controller
<sara_> Network
<sara_>     Atheros Communications Inc. AR9285 Wireless Network Adapter (PCI-Express)"
<sara_> not the same thing?
<ali1234> unfortunately no
<dwatkins> those are the physical network (RJ45) port, and the wifi adapter
<ali1234> i did ask whether certification includes all hardware once, i can't remember if i got an answer
<dwatkins> sara_: do I understand correctly that if you switch to wifi, the bluetooth works?
<ali1234> i think bluetooth is an optional component in that laptop anyway
<ali1234> dwatkins: no
<dwatkins> oh ok, sorry
<sara_> ali1234,  dwatkins nope
<ali1234> it looks like the model they tested didn't have the bluetooth option
<dwatkins> I'm too defeatist - I'd be tempted to just go buy a USB bluetooth adapter until it's fixed, but I appreciate that doesn't help solve the actual problem.
<ali1234> i'll be reading kernel source for a bit now, don't go away please
<ali1234> hmm ok, that patch is absolutely not in any mainline kernel as of today
<sara_> ok
<ali1234> now building a kernel with the patch...
<ali1234> oh great unity is spazzing out
<ali1234> black windows, expose not working... it's like 12.04 all over again
<sara_> ping me when i am required
<ali1234> sara_: do you have a 32 bit or 64 bit install?
<sara_> 32 bit (due to Bankid working on 32 bit only)
<sara_> but the problem is the same on 64 bit
<MonsterKiller> anyone know anything about an application called Xinetd?
<MonsterKiller> it seems to be running on my VPS and i have no idea why
<brobostigon> !info xinetd
<lubotu3> xinetd (source: xinetd): replacement for inetd with many enhancements. In component main, is extra. Version 1:2.3.14-7.1ubuntu1 (quantal), package size 126 kB, installed size 331 kB
<shauno> I'd take a look at /etc/xinetd.conf and see what services are in it.  that'd likely give you a clue as to what's pulled it in
<MonsterKiller> it just has "includedir /etc/xinetd.d
<MonsterKiller> " and in that folder theres 5 files: chargen, daytime, discard, echo and time
<shauno> I believe those are disabled by default
<MonsterKiller> the thing is. A while back some hacker/bot used a security floor in a cms i was running and uploaded their own php scripts. I then noticed my vps was being used to send tons of spam email through sendmail. I removed sendmail to save myself for a while. I removed all the files i could find that they uploaded. but i just installed sendmail again and it was already trying to send tons of spam emails
<MonsterKiller> idk what or how its being done
<MonsterKiller> i've checked web server access logs and theres nothing there
<MonsterKiller> so they aint spamming a form or anything that uses php to send mail
<MonsterKiller> idk what to do now :<
<ali1234> bug 1174054
<lubotu3> bug 1174054 in unity (Ubuntu) ""Always on top" breaks spread/expose" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1174054
<dwatkins> a paranoid sysadmin might reinstall after a break-in, but I appreciate that's no simple task
<shauno> I hate to say it, but Sigourney Weaver usually has the best idea there.  nuke it from orbit, it's the only way to be sure
<MonsterKiller> yeah might have to to stop this but didnt really fancy having to re-install all the things
<dwatkins> indeed, you can't be sure there's not some script hiding for some date in the future
<MonsterKiller> and set them up xD
<dwatkins> can you not restore the state of the OS from backup?
<MonsterKiller> i dont have a backup of it >.<
<dwatkins> ah
<MonsterKiller> my vps provider doesnt offer any tools to do it
<ali1234> reinstall it
<diddledan_> if you truly have discovered all the "bad" files then I would suggest that the emails were already in the queue when you uninstalled sendmail and reinstalling just caused sendmail to carry on where it had left off
<ali1234> this time, at the very least keep a log of every command you do during configuration
<shauno> it's a bit blunt, I'd be tempted to "apt-get -s remove xinetd" (-s is 'simulate', but don't use sudo so you can trust nothing will happen).  if xinetd was installed legitimately, what dependencies that wants to remove would be a good clue
<shauno> if nothing depends on it, or it claims it isn't installed, I'd pull a o_O face
<MonsterKiller> it only lists the xinetd package
<MonsterKiller> to be removed
<shauno> yeah.  that'd leave me questioning why it's there.  especially if you can't find anything that rings a bell in xinetd.conf / xinetd.d
<dwatkins> it could be a entirely different binary masquerading as xinetd
<MonsterKiller> /var/spool/mqueue has a HUGE list of things
<MonsterKiller> \o/
<dwatkins> is there a way to check the md5 of every binary on the system against what it should be, given the patchlevel of each package?
<dwatkins> hmm, so it's being used to send spam?
<shauno> !info debsums
<lubotu3> debsums (source: debsums): tool for verification of installed package files against MD5 checksums. In component universe, is optional. Version 2.0.52 (quantal), package size 42 kB, installed size 199 kB
<MonsterKiller> it was
<diddledan_> if it is running and listening on the network then `sudo netstat -anp | grep xinetd` might reveal something
<MonsterKiller> they uploaded their own php scripts using an exploit in a cms
<ali1234> standard
<ali1234> that script will generally take over the entire system given a chance
<MonsterKiller> "unix  2 [ ] DGRAM 3979059610 31856/xinetd"
<shauno> if I was slightly more miserly, I'd claim that's what php is for :/
<ali1234> you must reinstall this system
<ali1234> most ISPs will not allow you to reconnect it to the internet until you do so
<shauno> I'd have to agree.  I'd take this as a chance to rebuild with a careful eye this time. figure out some backup method (even if it's just rsync to a home box), make note of what processes you expect to see running/listening, etc
<shauno> start over with the benefit of hindsight and a lesson learnt
<dwatkins> or make the system virtual and save a snapshot
<ali1234> or use rsnapshot
<ali1234> backing up the whole system is fairly pointless though, as you might not know exactly when it was compromised
<dwatkins> true, I was just thinking of the initial setup
<shauno> backup's a bit of a bandaid anyway, because rolling back doesn't close whatever door they came in through
<shauno> but obviously being in a situation where you'd rather leave the box exploited and running because the lack of backups is in the way of a rebuild, is much worse
<daveyg> hi all
<MonsterKiller> makes me sad :<
<daveyg> anyone fancy helping me out on a simple ubuntu issue?
<daveyg> .
<daveyg> did this connection just drop?
<dwatkins> nope
<dwatkins> what's up, daveyg?
<daveyg> battling with ubuntu xstart stuff.
<daveyg> changing screen kills the view i know there is a way to change res from cli but i cant remember or find the right words to get google to tell me
<MonsterKiller> i think they were just using a php script to send mail, but now i've removed them theres just a huge back log of mail to send
<MonsterKiller> need to find out how to properly clear it
<dwatkins> daveyg: I've not edited the Xorg.conf in a long time, isn't this kind of thing all done from the GUI nowadays?
 * dwatkins edited the XF86Config once upon a time, before the name change
<daveyg> not if your cards not supported.
<dwatkins> ah ok, time to run X --probeonly and look at the Xorg.0.log, I guess
<daveyg> cool ill check that out.
<dwatkins> MonsterKiller: I have a horrible suspicion that spam is illegal in some jurasdictions, I assume you won't be just allowing it to send all the mail.
<MonsterKiller> no, i stopped sendmail as soon as i saw it started to send more mail
<MonsterKiller> i just need to clear the queue, but if i sudo rm -f * in /var/spool/mqueue it doesnt error or anything but there queue still remains
<dwatkins> I don't remember where, but I think the actual mail queue is elsewhere.
<MonsterKiller> oh
<MonsterKiller> 9178 files in mqueue
<MonsterKiller> :<
<dwatkins> *sadface*
<MonsterKiller> managed to empty mqueue small blocks at a time xD
<dwatkins> I assume you'll be reinstalling and enforcing usage of WordFence or its equivalent, eventually, MonsterKiller.
<MonsterKiller> wordfence?
<dwatkins> it tells you when there are updates for or issues with Wordpress and its plugins
<MonsterKiller> i didnt use wordpress, they were using php fusion iirc
<dwatkins> perhaps there are equivalents, if not, migrate them
<MonsterKiller> there was a security update for it so i installed that straight after
<dwatkins> you're more likely to get exploited by someone discoving what holes a patch fixes and abusing the fact you havn't patched the system, than you are to get got by a 0day bug.
<MonsterKiller> afaik sendmail wasnt configured correctly anyway, i was getting http://pastebin.com/P8NBFp8c
<MonsterKiller> so im hoping no mail was actually sent
<MonsterKiller> :p
<dwatkins> haha
<dwatkins> we can but hope
<dwatkins> looks like it
<sara_> but the problem is the same on 64 bit ali1234  (i apparently didnt send this) in reference to the bluetooth thing
<dwatkins> sara_: is the main issue that you can't get bluetooth to work on this laptop?
<sara_> on asus pc's they dont work
<ali1234> dwatkins: there's a patch for the bug. i am trying to build 32 bit kernel on 64 bit machine, it isn't easy unfortunately
<dwatkins> sara_: oh right, I was wondering if using a USB bluetooth dongle would be an acceptable workaround
<dwatkins> oh cool, ali1234
<sara_> dwatkins, 33p for pasta is expensive. :/ a usbdongle looks like the royal septer
<sara_> dwatkins, thanks for the suggestion
<ali1234> the pound shop sells perfectly good bluetooth dongles actually
<ali1234> does anyone know how i'm supposed to bump the version on the kernel git debian.master/changelog?
<shauno> it's funny.  these days, when people say "the pound shop", my first thought is dealextreme
<dwatkins> wow, they're even the small ones http://www.poundland.co.uk/product-range/a-z/bluetooth-usb-dongle/
<ali1234> yes
<ali1234> and they work fine
<ali1234> hmmm i' going to have to set up a 32 bit VM for this
<ali1234> the chroot method just doesn't work
<ali1234> hmm i think it's actually building
#ubuntu-uk 2014-04-21
<yellowstar-It> Think I shall go over https://voices.canonical.com/ this morning .
<yellowstar-It> Gotta be some movement on the b-blogs.
<yellowstar-It> connection on mobile not so brill, thou.
<dwatkins> ahoy
<SuperMatt> top of the morning to you
<dwatkins> is it a bank holiday in England today? Somehow it isn't one in Scotland.
<SuperMatt> it is
<SuperMatt> I hope
<SuperMatt> or I'm getting my butt fired tomorrow
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<bashrc> morning
<brobostigon> morning bashrc
<Azelphur> I've finally decided to get grumpy with my mobile carrier (3) about their tethering detection xD
<Azelphur> gonna try and get them to give me tethering for free, so far I've got their network team dealing with the first app that I know triggers tethering detection
<dwatkins> which app, Azelphur?
<Azelphur> pvstar+
<dwatkins> I'm with Three, and I believe I'm not allowed to tether, but I've never had any problem with the Android access point functionality
<Azelphur> I actually want to use that app, which is annoying
<Azelphur> dwatkins: feel free to try it, install pvstar+, try to do a video search, enjoy your disconnection xD
<dwatkins> I assume you're tethering a separate Android device
<Azelphur> I'm not.
<dwatkins> oh wow, so it's on the same device and it has an issue
<Azelphur> exactly
 * dwatkins installs it on his Android phone running gingerbread
<Azelphur> they use layer 7 detection, which is completely stupid and broken, and I'm going to continually trigger it (from the phone) until they turn it off xD
<penguin42> it's bound to happen - their is no way for them to know that tethering happens, so it's going to have to be heuristics based on data flow - and they're going to get wrong especially as phones get more powerful and run more stuff
<Azelphur> penguin42: sure there is, use the TTL.
<dwatkins> I assumed they looked at packet encapsulation or something
<dwatkins> i.e. secondary MAC address behind the phone
<Azelphur> dwatkins: nah, they do Layer 7 / DPI, they are literally violating your privacy :P
<Azelphur> you can tether quite happily without tethering detection at the moment, so long as you don't do anything that sets off the Layer 7
<penguin42> Azelphur: If the phone is doing NAT I'd assume that it could also reset the TTL
<Azelphur> penguin42: sure, but on the same basis I can just VPN and tether, there will always be ways to bypass this sort of detection, but they should at least use the method that doesn't interfere with the phone under normal conditions :)
<Azelphur> that and the whole privacy implications of DPI
<penguin42> Azelphur: I don't have a 'privacy' problem with DPI - humans shouldn't see the data
<dwatkins> awesome, works great even if I lock my screen
<Azelphur> penguin42: they obviously can see the data, how do you think they are debugging this issue and gonna have it fixed within 72 hours? ;)
<dwatkins> coincidentally, I was looking for an app that does exactly this :D
<dwatkins> sorry, couldn't reproduce the problem, Azelphur
<Azelphur> dwatkins: yea, pvstar is actually really useful
<Azelphur> dwatkins: on wifi or something?
<dwatkins> nope, made certain of that, I'm on Three's network
<Azelphur> maybe they fixed it already
<Azelphur> *tries on my phone again*
<dwatkins> new version as of 29th March
<penguin42> Azelphur: Right but they can see all your data - DPI makes no difference to that
<Azelphur> no, three not pvstar
<Azelphur> penguin42: yup it's already fixed, holy crap that was fast
<dwatkins> it even works with a 105 minute video
<dwatkins> took a minute to cache it, mind you
<Azelphur> dwatkins: but not for channel searches, it seems
<penguin42> Azelphur: Do you know if 3 run that detection stuff on the 1p/MB PAYG setup?
<dwatkins> I havn't tried searching channels yet.
<Azelphur> penguin42: no clue
<Azelphur> dwatkins: try that, I just got dropped for it
<penguin42> Azelphur: I got a 3 sim as backup for when my virgin goes pop
<dwatkins> well, Three now know what I like listening to *shrugs*
<dwatkins> just search for a channel by name, Azelphur?
<Azelphur> dwatkins: yup
<Azelphur> you'll get no results as the query is blocked, and then all internet activity on your phone will cease to function
<dwatkins> did a search for "slow mo guys" and it's now loading their puddle splash video
<Azelphur> I shall video it :P
<dwatkins> good call
<dwatkins> hmm, hang on it's now stopped playing
<Azelphur> hehe, try and load a webpage ;)
 * dwatkins loads google.de with success
<dwatkins> must have just been slow loading the video
<dwatkins> yeah, it's resumed now
<Azelphur> video uploading \o/
<Azelphur> dwatkins: https://www.dropbox.com/s/tpv6cfagcyixzl9/2014-04-21%2015.33.49.mp4
<Azelphur> dwatkins: notice at 0:22, the advert at the bottom gets replaced by the three tethering detection page
<Azelphur> and from then on all I can access is the tethering detected page, and nowhere else.
<Azelphur> also, if you do trigger it, instead of a full restart you can just toggle airplane mode.
<dwatkins> useful tip, but even searching for "going quantum", as you did, I don't get disconnected
<dwatkins> perhaps it's a factor of the (immeisely old) version of Android that I'm running.
<dwatkins> *immensely
<Azelphur> maybe, I just did another video search and got nuked again
<dwatkins> I assume you havn't changed the settings in the app, e.g. default search engine is "youtube"
<Azelphur> yea, I actually reset the app to defaults a few minutes ago
<dwatkins> ...and you have version 2.5.0
<Azelphur> yup
<Azelphur> maybe like you said and it behaves differently on different versions of android
<dwatkins> yeah, I'm also running Cyanogenmod, which may not be sending certain stuff, at a guess
<Azelphur> I wouldn't be too surprised if cyanogenmod modifies the browser user agent to prevent apps from causing problems like this
<dwatkins> that's something I can check
<Azelphur> how are you checking it?
<dwatkins> server logs on my Ubuntu machine at home show: "Mozilla/5.0 (Linux; U; Android 2.3.7; en-gb; Desire HD Build/GRI40) AppleWebKit/533.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0 Mobile Safari/533.1"
<Azelphur> Interesting
<Azelphur> any easy way I can check on openwrt?
<dwatkins> not unless you're running a webserver, all I did was open my homepage and tail-f the apache log
<Azelphur> guess I can just tcpdump and wireshark
<Azelphur> dwatkins: oh, no that's not relevant, it's only relevant what pvstar sends as a user agent
<dwatkins> ah I see, yes
<dwatkins> I guess wireshark or Charles Proxy would show what the app is sending, yeah
<Azelphur> so you'd need to intercept the traffic (transparent proxy, or wireshark)
<Azelphur> yea
<dwatkins> there's an app for that
<dwatkins> well, to se the proxy per app
<Azelphur> yea I tried the wireshark app, doesn't seem to work for me
<dwatkins> Azelphur: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.lechucksoftware.proxy.proxysettings
<dwatkins> if you need a proxy to test with, PM me
 * SuperMatt starts throwing things at ansible
<SuperMatt> it's good... but I think it needs maturing
<SuperMatt> it reports that it has changed a file when it hasn't actually changed a file
<SuperMatt> it's a little annoying if you want everything to return OK
<moreati> SuperMatt: which module is changing that file?
#ubuntu-uk 2014-04-22
<mapp> another quiet night every chan im in is quiet
 * diddledan yawns
<diddledan> is it sleepytime yet?
<mapp> not for me
<mapp> im contemplating going to tesco do my shopping
<mapp> a ) its empty so easy but b_) i cant be bothered with the 20min e/w walk
 * nigelb waves
<nigelb> Good Morning!
<mapp> hey
<diddledan> http://www.netwars-project.com/
<mapp> just got up nigelb?:P
<diddledan> interesting cyber-security thing
<mapp> argh
<mapp> http://www.binarypilot.co/?id=f6b635&sub=prop
<mapp> keep getting stuff like tat
<mapp> useless garbage
<nigelb> mapp: I'm in India. It's 8am here.
<nigelb> (woke up around 6)
<diddledan> mapp: wtf did you get that crud from? (the binary pilot link)
<mapp> done!
<mapp> there and back in 30mins
<mapp> some annoying popup diddledan
<mapp> im not recommending it;p
<MooDoo> hello all
<nigelb> Morning MooDoo
<nigelb> Happy fake-Tuesday.
<nigelb> erm
<nigelb> fake-Monday
<nigelb> proves the point, doesn't it? :)
<jussi> morning all
<jussi> is it just me or is chromium really messed up in 14.04 ?
<nigelb> jussi: I heard popey talk about something similar with the latest chromium update.
<jussi> nigelb: my backspace and delete keys don't work!
<nigelb> ...
<nigelb> that sounds fairly serious.
<nigelb> I hope chromium isn't yet the default browser.
<jussi> wait a sec, lets see if a restart of chromium helps...
<Myrtti> on my Chromium on 12.04 I can do Google Hangouts just fine
<jussi> Myrtti: yeah, but on 14.04?
<Myrtti> but if I use the normal Chrome, whateverthehell version it is, it just prompts me back to installing the plugin
<nigelb> My colleague, amusingly, can only do hangouts on Firefox. Doesn't work on Firefox.
<Myrtti> over, and over, and over again
<nigelb> Myrtti: Oh. Do you hvae the right architecture of chrome? (it happened to me with flash)
<nigelb> 64-bit flash and 32-bit browser = no workey.
<jussi> hrm, restart partially helped... it now only doesnt work *sometimes* ....
<jussi> ...
<Myrtti> jussi: sorry, I got an update last week that basically prevents my OEM laptop from upgrading to LTS
<Myrtti> well, new LTS
<nigelb> jussi: wtf
<jussi> Myrtti: that sucks.
<jussi> nigelb: yeah, weird as. everything working in chrome, so no idea whats going on
<Myrtti> jussi: I don't really mind that much actually
<Myrtti> OEM Ubuntu means the computer works
<jussi> well, yeah, fair point
<jussi> is it a dell?
<Myrtti> yup
<jussi> XPS13?
<Myrtti> Dell Latitude E6430
<Myrtti> I did request XPS13 but it wasn't enterprise enough to pass the muster of the IT dept.
<jussi> aww.
<Myrtti> because cheap is obviously a sign it won't last
<Myrtti> *rolleyes*
<jussi> heh...
<Myrtti> it would have been so nice and light to fly with...
<Myrtti> *sigh*
<jussi> Myrtti: I hear you
<jussi> Ive an E4200 - getting a bit old in the tooth now, but still nice.
<Myrtti> nigelb: yeah, the arch matches. I heard cz<tab> had similar issues with flash plugin last week
<jussi> flash doesnt work on my home PC either (upgraded last week) despite me reinstalling it like 15 times...
<smittix> Mornin'
<MooDoo> morning smittix
<diplo> Morning all
<dwatkins> hey folks
<MooDoo> howdy dwatkins
<dwatkins> today is a good day to stay indoors
<jussi> pffft, we have blue skies and sunshine! and more than 10 degrees!
<nigelb> ...
<nigelb> somehow jussi celebrating "more than 10 degrees" scares me a bit.
<jussi> nigelb: its april... :D
<nigelb> jussi: My city is seeing 30+ every day :(
<jussi> nigelb: Im glad Im not there - I hate it too hot
<nigelb> Heh
<nigelb> I'm only happy that there's not much humidity.
<czajkowski> Myrtti: I did took following the steps a few times for it to wake up and relase it had installed and a reboot later all worked
<czajkowski> and yes I have ct<tab> on highlight :)
<Myrtti> well this is basically end of May weather in Finland
<Myrtti> it's not unheard of of getting sleet or even snow on May Day
<bashrc_> morning
<Myrtti> czajkowski: I might try that
<czajkowski> Myrtti: weather here has been awful most of the weekend
<czajkowski> Friday and SAturday weren't bad
<czajkowski> sunday and monday bleugh
 * czajkowski will be in Oslo, Helsinki and now Stockholm in June 
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<MooDoo> hello brobostigon
<brobostigon> hello MooDoo
<awilkins> Did we all get a visit from the Eostre Bunny?
<brobostigon> yes, my special dairy free chocolate.
<davmor2> Morning all
<MooDoo> morning davmor2
<brobostigon> morning davmor2
<brobostigon> is there a davmor1 ?
<czajkowski> one davmor2 is all we can handle
<czajkowski> :)
<davmor2> brobostigon: there was when I first install Suse 6.3 which is where I got the nick from, Never seen the nick since though but by then I had it registered everywhere
<davmor2> brobostigon: in fact it was suse that got me the nick, They recommended the format of fisrt 3 letter of you first and last name and a number :)
<davmor2> so MooDoo how was your break
<MooDoo> davmor2: mostly good thanks :D
<davmor2> How was everyones elses Easter break?
<foobarry> good
<foobarry> tiring
<foobarry> churchy
<foobarry> chocolately
<brobostigon> davmor2: ah, i see. :)
<MooDoo> not churcy for me, just chocolatey
<jussi> MartijnVdS: ping
<MartijnVdS> jussi:
 * jussi waves vigorously :D
<jussi> and PMs
<popey> Moo.
<jussi> hei popey!
<Laney> Have you mooed today?
<jussi> MOOO!
<jussi> now I have...
<jussi> Laney: been a long time since I had a conversation with you...
<davmor2> Laney: Run it's a trap
<jussi> davmor2: sssshhh!!! :P
<davmor2> See
<Laney> hey jussi!
<Laney> bad davmor2
<davmor2> Laney: It's the Interwebz it's always a trap
<jussi> davmor2: clickbait :P
<davmor2> jussi: Trap I tell you :D  Even more so if you read the comments, then your lifeforce is sucked from you
<jussi> haha
<jussi> true that..
<jussi> davmor2: I should rickroll you, just for fun... :P
<davmor2> jussi: http://goo.gl/8YIXzU
<davmor2> jussi: I think that is the best one I've ever seen :)
<jussi> davmor2: yeah, I saw that one
<jussi> pretyt cool
<foobarry> cannot login to my library to renew books :S
<davmor2> foobarry: why?
<foobarry> broke last week
<foobarry> don't suppose IT systems people for libraries are the best
<davmor2> foobarry: ring your local library and let them know they might not actually be aware at all
<davmor2> foobarry: a lot of the work might be centralised with a 3rd party who are slacking off
<foobarry> its a london wide libary system i think
<foobarry> arena
<foobarry> doritos never seem to go stale
<dwatkins> it's all the wifi
<dvrr> MooDoo:Hiiiiiiiii
<MooDoo> hello
<foobarry> quiet considerig 14.04 got released recently
<DJones> Thats a good sign, it means people aren't commenting on having issues
<awilkins> So far it passes the Dear Grey Haired Old Mum test
<awilkins> Installed it for mum at the weekend.
<awilkins> Comments so far "It looks a bit more crisp and techy"
<awilkins> (over 12.04)
<foobarry> my laptop touchpad is sucky :(
<nigelb> foobarry: TMI.
<awilkins> sucky, not sticky
<foobarry> its jerky and scrool is intolerably slow
<foobarry> and i don't understand the undocumented alps glidepoint stuffs
<nigelb> awilkins: lol, dang.
<foobarry> how long do i have before u1 stops letting me copy files?
<popey> !u1
<popey> bah
<popey> blog.canonical.com/2014/04/02/shutting-down-ubuntu-one-file-services/
<popey> "The current services will be unavailable from 1 June 2014; user content will remain available for download until 31 July, at which time it will be deleted."
<foobarry> haven't made a decision yet
<Dave2> cononical providing free os and services.Who knows microsoft shutting down tomarrow and if it happens anyone going to die.
<Dave2> some interesting comments on that post
 * popey hugs SyncThing
<foobarry> trying to get my head around olc in ldap. new config style.
<foobarry> slapd.conf gone away
<DJones> popey: Do you know when the name of 14.10 is being announced?
<popey> not soon enough
<DJones> Heh
<MartijnVdS> Unified Ungulate
<MartijnVdS> done.
<directhex> undulating unicorn. you heard it here first.
<foobarry> usurping uakari
<Laney> ululating uakari
 * Laney lalalala
<dwatkins> Ubuntu 14.10 Unified Userexperience
<dwatkins> isn't that what all the cool kids are doing nowadays?
<Laney> umbilical
<awilkins> Ultimate Umbrellabird
<awilkins> Ugly Uguisu
<awilkins> Usorious Uakari
<Laney> somebody found the same "animals that begin with U" page as me
<diddledan> what about the usula bird? the one that disappears up it's own...
<popey> there's a page on the wiki with speculation for every release
<popey> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DevelopmentCodeNames
<diddledan> aah google tells me it's spelt "oozlum"
<popey> one of the more active wiki pages we have !
<davmor2> Unity8 Umbilical_cord is the obvious one :)
<popey> FSVO "Obvious"
<directhex> Uninvited Uromastyx
<SuperMatt> unshakable unicorn
<SuperMatt> unphased urchin
<diddledan> unthinking urangutan
<diddledan> ^^^ very similar to the diddlus danus
<SuperMatt> it'll probably be unicorn
<diddledan> unicorns aren't real though
<SuperMatt> I can understand why mark hasn't posted about the new codename yet
<SuperMatt> neither are jackalopes
<SuperMatt> so there's precedance
<diddledan> >.<
<SuperMatt> understandable unicorn
<diddledan> unimaginable unicorn?
<SuperMatt> surely without the new name, no work can be done
<SuperMatt> I bet someone with hovering their finger over a grep command within the repos
<SuperMatt> sed even
<diddledan> that's a good point, because without a name we don't have an identity or presence or guide to adhere
<diddledan> it'll be anarchy without a name
<SuperMatt> it's anarchy enough already!
<bashrc> struggling to install 14.04 on a laptop.  I just get an immediate kernel panic "not syncing"
<diddledan> bashrc: that often means it can't find the hdd
<diddledan> or the hdd moved since installation
<maps|wrk> evening folks
<maps|wrk> everyone on 14.04 now?
<ali1234> yeah for months
<ali1234> i normally do a fresh install when it actually releases but i haven't got around to it yet
<maps|wrk> does anyone bother running a local mirror for themselves
<maps|wrk> guess no need ubless a lot of machines likely to be usingapt-get?
<maps|wrk> *using apt-get
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/zls2rg6aokducef/eMeFTzT9nf
<daftykins> just flew home on a jet :)
<maps|wrk> :(
<maps|wrk> cant access dropbox
<diddledan> I'm leavin' on a jet plane, I don't know when I'll be back again.
<maps|wrk> hmm this is incredibly slow
<maps|wrk> wonder what its doing
<maps|wrk> trying to mirror deb-i386 main
<maps|wrk> changed motd to include local weather..not needed but i was bored
<maps|wrk> :D
<diddledan> maps|wrk: the archive is large!
<daftykins> i would like for a local ISP to setup a mirror
<maps|wrk> lol yea ididnt remove deb-src and it said 53gig id commented out most
<maps|wrk> main alone for 13.04 is 8.9gig
<maps|wrk> so on my blazing fast connection..hours :)
<daftykins> my RAID was spitting sector repair errors again after i left, so i'm gonna have to get on replacing the funky disk
<maps|wrk> be best to run it in a screen so i can reattach ? if i run it in the background with & how can i call it back?
<diddledan> fg 1
<daftykins> the apt service? surely it's daemon-able
<maps|wrk> hm,mm
<maps|wrk> whats the diff between doing & and then callig it back and using screen?
<diddledan> I'm not sure you can call it back once bash is terminated
<maps|wrk> ah
<maps|wrk> what could i run in bg tghen call back? tried nmap and it still jeept pumping out to stdout
<daftykins> why would you run nmap other than as-and-when? :D
<maps|wrk> just to see if i could call it back
<maps|wrk> copuldnt think of anything else that would keep working
<daftykins> irssi!
<maps|wrk> that always seems hard to use
<maps|wrk> isnt it like BX?
<diddledan> I can't work irssi
<diddledan> I like sidebars
<maps|wrk> yea i struggle
<maps|wrk> especially with multi channels in console text isnt it hard daftykins ?
<diddledan> yeah multiple channels is the thing I have most trouble with in irssi, too
<daftykins> i'm a noob with it, i've got my auto join channels setup and i just dance between them with alt+#
<daftykins> my first PM comes up as alt+0, then after that i start doing /win xx
<daftykins> XD
<diddledan> I've got 12 channels open across networks
<daftykins> but it does me well, it lets me reattach between computer so i don't reconnect messily all the time
<diddledan> there's only 10 alt-able windows
<daftykins> yarr
<popey> heh 12
 * popey looks at his 116 irc windows
<daftykins> ;)
<popey> i should trim them
<diddledan> ouch
<diddledan> that's a fair few
<diddledan> I'd never get any work done if I had that many open
<popey> i dont view them all
<daftykins> i don't get any work done now
<popey> now trimming!
<daftykins> 8D
<diddledan> maps|wrk: du -sh . just returned the size of archive.ubuntu.com at 781GB
<daftykins> ho-lee moley.
<maps|wrk> lol
<maps|wrk> how did you run that afainst a remote server
<maps|wrk> 116 windows?! over how many monitors
<diddledan> I didn't, I ran it on my own copy which is a mirror of archive.ubuntu.com
<diddledan> I need to fiddle with it a tad, it's nfs mounted right now >.<
<daftykins> diddledan: do you consider that bad?
<diddledan> daftykins: when the mirror is serving over the same connection the nfs is mounted, yes
<diddledan> means that the maximum throughput would be about halved
<maps|wrk> lol nice diddledan  how long did it take to mirror that
<maps|wrk> all im doing is mirroring deb-i386 main
<diddledan> maps|wrk: from memory nearly 12 hours
<maps|wrk> woah nice
<maps|wrk> whats your net?
<diddledan> it's a gigabit network at hetzner
<maps|wrk> :D
<maps|wrk> ah so not your home connectrion
<diddledan> heh, no :-p
<maps|wrk> still..i'm fairly certain your nets better than my 6mbit;p
<daftykins> maps|wrk: you recently switched provider didn't you? wan't it better before?
<daftykins> *wasn't
<maps|wrk> well, better but still awful
<maps|wrk> 6mbit with bethere..to 6mbit with sky and a constantly changing IP and lots of disconnections
<maps|wrk> ive dettached my screen copying the mirror
<maps|wrk> will check in an hour and see what its done:)
<gebbione> does ubuntu support chmod +a ?
<diddledan> gebbione: to do what?
<gebbione> permission setup like sudo chmod +a "$HTTPDUSER allow delete,write,append,file_inherit,directory_inherit" app/cache app/logs
<diddledan> I've never seen a chmod along those lines
<diddledan> access control lists are managed via the setfacl utility if that's what you're after - it's in the acl-*.deb file
<diddledan> http://packages.ubuntu.com/trusty/acl
<diddledan> there's probably a bot command to fish that url out but I don't know it so I went in manually
<diddledan> !p acl
<gebbione> no worries, i am following a couple of pages
<gebbione> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/FilePermissionsACLs
<gebbione> but since i had never seen acl before and its usage i was curious to ask around
<gebbione> also i do not seem to be able to run a command like sudo setfacl -Rn -m u:"$HTTPDUSER":rwX -m u:`whoami`:rwX app/cache app/logs
<gebbione> it keeps saying operation not supported
<diddledan> try splitting it
<diddledan> put each -m in a separate command
<diddledan> also if your username has spaces then it'll likely b0rk
<gebbione> no i m using vagrant, no spaces
<gebbione> but even spitting the command does not work
<diddledan> http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/precise/en/man1/setfacl.1.html might help
<diddledan> what's the upper-case X permission supposed to represent?
<diddledan> execute is lower-case "x"
<gebbione> The options -M, and -X
<gebbione>        read an ACL from a file or from standard input. The ACL entry format is
<gebbione>        described in Section ACL ENTRIES.
<gebbione> i m actually not sure of why the command is run that way, it is part of an instruction set to install symfony
<diddledan> you're not using -M OR -X. the upper-case "X" permission I'm referring to is "-m u:`whoami`:rwX"
<maps|wrk> hmm
<diddledan> maps|wrk: how goes?
<gebbione> changing the case for that x makes no difference
<maps|wrk> so anyone able to help out ..i put a script in /usr/local/bin to basically do cowsay || fortune -- for the motd - then created a symlink ln -s for it in /etc/update-motd.d/91-welcome
<maps|wrk> but nothing new shows on login? created a script in /usr/local/bin called weather and made a link same way ln -s 98-weather and that shows on login
<diddledan> maps|wrk: wrong output channel?
<maps|wrk> really confused, read the manpage and it says scripts get output in order
<maps|wrk> not sure what you mean
<diddledan> STDERR vs STDOUT
<maps|wrk> all i did was call like fortune || cowsay -n
<maps|wrk> should go to stdout ? bash ./usr/local/bin/welcome and it shows either on stdout
<maps|wrk> i was looking at, https://www.linux.com/learn/tutorials/741573-put-a-talking-cow-in-your-linux-message-of-the-day
<maps|wrk> can you see if it works for you?
<diddledan> did you use double || or single | ?
<diddledan> remember there's a difference - you want to pipe the output of the fortune command into the cowsay command
<maps|wrk> sorry meant |
<maps|wrk> but it didnt work for me when logging in running the script manually worked tho
<maps|wrk> can you try on yours? if it works for you ..gotta be something else on my piece of junk
<daftykins> so what's trusty gone and done with Xorg.0.log in a live session? we booted it up on a friends laptop today whilst i was still in England
<diddledan> maps|wrk: it works for me
<maps|wrk> gah
<maps|wrk> what did you do exactly?
<diddledan> maps|wrk: I ensured to use full pathnames to the cowsay and fortune binaries (/usr/games/<wheeee>) and made sure that the file in /usr/local/bin was executable and had a #! line
<maps|wrk> #!/bin/bash ?
<maps|wrk> hmm
<diddledan> yup
<diddledan> or at a ping /bin/dash
<diddledan> pinch**
<diddledan> it took a couple logins to take
<maps|wrk> hmm
<maps|wrk> what did you call the file? and the link -s to what
<diddledan> called it /usr/local/bin/cow
<diddledan> and linked to /etc/update-motd.d/91-cow
<maps|wrk> i messed with that file
<maps|wrk> hmm
<maps|wrk> failed to exec /etc/update-motd.d/10-stats: E
<maps|wrk> now it seems to be working
<maps|wrk> odd
<maps|wrk> do we have to use exec or can you just call them diddledan ?
<diddledan> I didn't use exec
<maps|wrk> thanks
#ubuntu-uk 2014-04-23
<daftykins> time for an early one
<daftykins> nn all :)
<diddledan> lol http://www.avclub.com/article/hbo-gos-new-ads-capture-awkwardness-watching-hbo-y-203710
<mapp> get
<mapp> hey
<MooDoo> hello all
<Myrtti> mÃ¶h
<mapp> hey
<mapp> hows it going guys
<MooDoo> not 2 bad mapp you?
<mapp> not bad just watching final bit of tv before bed
<mapp> then il flick on the usual tv eps thati fall asleep to..2 broke girls..mom..the millers..seen em all soo many times:D
<popey> Laney: you know pbuilder-dist a bit I believe? Is there an easy way to run some set of scripted commands in the pbuilder after doing a "pbuilder-dist <distro> <arch> login"?
<MartijnVdS> popey: yes, there are hoook scripts for pbuilder
<MartijnVdS> popey: check out the manpage (pbuilder) and /usr/share/doc/pbuilder/examples
<MartijnVdS>               F<digit><digit><whatever-else-you-want> is executed just  before
<MartijnVdS>               user  logs  in,  or  program  starts  executing, after chroot is
<MartijnVdS>               created in --login or --execute target.
<popey> hmmm
<popey> huh, i was looking at the pbuilder-dist man page.. thanks
<diplo> Morning all
<MooDoo> howdy diplo
<smittix> Moaning
<jussi> Huomenta :)
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
 * smittix yawns
<dwatkins> hihi
<smittix> Woken up with a cracking headache this morning. urgh
<dwatkins> bah, smittix
<popey> www.tomshardware.com/news/oneplus-android-smartphone-google-cyanogenmod,26610.html
<jussi> popey: that looks interesting...
<TwistedLucidity> $300...so that's Â£450? :-S
<DJones> Plus vat
<TwistedLucidity> Actually, at the bottom the stat â¬269 and â¬299. Not *that* bad. Still more than I can afford, mind you.
<TwistedLucidity> "...they state..."
<ujjain2> I really moved to the UK and want to connect my TV (analog) and I assume I need a coax-cable (I asked too many people in the UK that didn't know what that is). On amazon.co.uk I see most cables are male-male, but I assume I need a male-female, right? Just connecting the TV to the analog TV port in my room.
<MartijnVdS> wasn't analog TV discontinued in the UK?
<MartijnVdS> Everything should be DVB now?
<ujjain2> ah really? so no more coax cables?
<DJones> MartijnVdS: Analog has been, but even digital tv still uses teh same analog tv ariel
<MartijnVdS> DJones: yes, but he specifically asked "analog"?
<ujjain2> Can I get free TV on my Samsung UE40F6200 from NL? It supports DVB-T, but I don't know what that means. I need to get a device that can pick up aerial messages from the air?
<popey> DVB-T is what we use, yes
<DJones> ujjain2: If a property has a tv ariel, they are normally a coax cable from the ariel into the house with a male connector to plug into the tv's ariel socket, the same ariel should feed both analog and digital signals
<popey> assuming it points to a digital terrestrial capable transmitter..
<DJones> You would hope so, is there anywhere thats not getting digital tv now, I thought the changeover had been completed
<popey> yes, changeover is complete
<popey> what was that website which lists which transmitter you're pointing at?
<popey> wolfbane!
<popey> found it via my old dvb blog post
<popey> ujjain2: www.wolfbane.com/cgi-bin/tvd.exe
<ujjain2> DJones, the property has a tv ariel yes.
<ujjain2> so that's male-female?
<popey> stuick your postcode in that, and it should help you find out (with the compass direction) which transmitter you're pointing at
<popey> the UHF port is female,
<popey> ujjain2: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TV_aerial_plug
<DJones> ujjain2: Most older properties just have a cable with a male connector at the end to plug into the tv (the other end just goes straight to the ariel), newer properties/flats etc could well have a wall mounted socket that you'd need to plug a short coax cable into, I guess that would just depend on whether the fitter used a male or female wall socket as to which cable you'd need though
<ujjain2> aerial plug, antenna cable, coax cable, many terms, but I will just look at the plug and tv I guess, to see if it's male/female when I'm home
<Myrtti> awwwww, no Unity Webplayer for Linux?
<ujjain2> ah right, I understand.
<popey> Myrtti: sadly not
<Myrtti> no Flappy48 then
<Myrtti> :-(
<popey> indeed
<popey> that is the only use I've had for it ever
<foobarry> anyone point me to good info about generating a csr file with a subject alternative name?
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: you generate a CSR normally, then select the SANs on the signing end I think
<MartijnVdS> apparently not always
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: http://wiki.cacert.org/FAQ/subjectAltName
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: that explains how to do it using an OpenSSL config file
<foobarry> ta
<directhex> we use an openssl config to read it from an env var
<directhex> subjectAltName=${ENV::ALTNAME}
<directhex> then call "ALTNAME='DNS:foo.bar.com, DNS: foo2.bar.com' openssl whatever"
<MartijnVdS> directhex: oh that's an awesome idea
<directhex> see also passing in HOST via commonName_default              = $ENV::HOST
<foobarry> altname is the website address only?
<foobarry> doesn't include the hostname too
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: if you look at the cacert howto page, it seems they don't set a CN, but it's still present in the CSR
<MartijnVdS> It lists commands that let you list the contents of the CSR
<directhex> foobarry, altname is a comma-and-space separated list of "DNS:somehost" entries
<MartijnVdS> It seems like you need commonName = hostname *and* also add that hostname in the altName list
<directhex> foobarry, it is *SSL library implementation specific* as to whether cn= is considered when altname is also present
<foobarry> :S
<directhex> iirc openssl does not, gnutls does
<directhex> (safest to include it)
<directhex> (assuming you need it)
 * awilkins wants to smash Windows 2k12 server into a billion tiny pieces with a toffee hammer
 * dwatkins hands awilkins an installation DVD
<directhex> windows server 2012. because touchscreens! :D
<awilkins> It takes _4 minutes_ to unpack a 200MB archive
<awilkins> Same archive on my Linux desktop - 1.2s
 * Myrtti is trying to allocate UK bank holidays into her vacation calendar
<awilkins> I have no idea what our IT department have done to it
<Myrtti> meh.
<awilkins> Have finally got an Apache Solr server running on it
<awilkins> The dashboard doesn't work, and beacuse I can't get to port 8080 on this server
<awilkins> I have to use the local instance of IE
<awilkins> Not sure if the dashboard not working is because of IE, so using IE to download Firefox
<awilkins> IE keeps crashing at 99%
 * awilkins is feeling murderous
<directhex> Myrtti, https://www.gov.uk/bank-holidays/england-and-wales.ics
<Myrtti> directhex: yeah, but the problem is that I have to fill out which days I'd like to take off into this Googly Spreadsheet...
<Myrtti> so no automation for Myrttis
<awilkins> Also, clicking around on realllly slow desktop UI via RDP when I could just be TYPING COMMANDS is driving me cuckoo
<foobarry> does alt_names require IPs too?
 * awilkins watches IE stop at 98% download again
<dwatkins> awilkins: I feel your pain
<directhex> foobarry, no. altname is just a list of valid hostnames for which the server connection is valid
<dwatkins> I have to use virtual machines a lot, it's painful to have to wait to open menus
<foobarry> ok , cheers
<directhex> foobarry, e.g. if you ever try to go to "https://XYZ", every possible value for XYZ needs to be listed, but nothing else
<foobarry> thx. i am slightly confused because there's an F5 load balancer in the process
<dwatkins> I thought the trend now was to use hostnames, since IP addresses might change even if they're set by MAC address on the DHCP server etc.
<foobarry> agree
<dwatkins> some firewalls insist on IP addresses for whitelisting, but that's just not practical anymore, especially as many people use hosting services where a single IP address might be shared between multiple customers
<Wobbo> How can I install Ubuntu on a USB. Really installing it, not like "Universal USB Installer". If I use that, I can't update it, etc. It isn't a real installing.
<Wobbo> I have installed Ubuntu normally on a USB, but than de bios can't use it.
<popey> i have done this a few times
<popey> boot from an ubuntu iso on one usb stick, insert another, and install onto it
<popey> the key is to make sure the usb device is set as where the installer puts grub
<popey> if you dont do that it wont be bootable
<Wobbo> Ubuntu made on my laptop a /boot/efi fat
<Wobbo> I think that for the fast load think
<MartijnVdS> Wobbo: EFI only understands (a subset of) FAT
<NET||abuse> hmm, it's a little offtopic today, but any suggestions on a modern router to use for my friends home web design business setup. he's got 3 servers and 8 pc's, want to do a nice setup with dmz setup as he hosts client facing stuff off his home servers,
<MartijnVdS> NET||abuse: Routerboard/Mikrotik?
<NET||abuse> and he's looking to do some cloud hosted production work, but ultimately justto make sure he has a decently flexible solutoin
<MartijnVdS> NET||abuse: Really, check out the Routerboard stuff :)
<NET||abuse> will do :) ok.
<NET||abuse> hmm, looks like the basic option of the R750UP is available to his local supplier
<NET||abuse> MartijnVdS: what's the advantage of this router?
<NET||abuse> why this over others?
<NET||abuse> isthe os particularly well featured?
<NET||abuse> or is a little embeded linux/bsd box?
<MartijnVdS> NET||abuse: it's got Linux embedded, and the company makes a whole range of good but cheap routers etc.
<NET||abuse> pretty cool.
<MartijnVdS> NET||abuse: also, they make the tiny wifi APs and big lots-of-port routers and switches
<MartijnVdS> and their software/UI is great
<NET||abuse> definately a plus on the UI side, he's no need for wifi, just need flexible hardwire router
<MartijnVdS> NET||abuse: they also have those
<NET||abuse> he's got a switch with 4 ip's from his ip, so he just needs to mount up 2 ip's from his connection, and assign one port as a dmz for his servers
<NET||abuse> umm, from his ISP :P
<NET||abuse> finding my keyboard setup a bit stupid today.
<NET||abuse> i'm slouching , that's why.
<MartijnVdS> NET||abuse: Yeah, get the RB750 (GL if you need gigabit)
<MartijnVdS> NET||abuse: they also list measured throughput rates on the product pages
<NET||abuse> can he hook a gigbit 8port switch off one port and have that as his dmz ?maybe do passthrough on 2 or 3 ip's from his ISP's connection?
<MartijnVdS> yes, should be possible
<dwatkins> NET||abuse: sounds like something that might be best done with VLANs
<dwatkins> also, for anyone who wants to learn more, here's a set of videos with free networking training: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLmdYg02XJt6QRQfYjyQcMPfS3mrSnFbRC
<diddledan> MartijnVdS: I love routerboards
<diddledan> MartijnVdS: I also love that the admin console while being windows-only runs without issue in wine
<foobarry> i'm out of contract on my broadband..whats the cheapest deals out there?
<diddledan> the webadmin on routerboards is a bit of a mess, however
<dwatkins> depends what you want in terms of speed, bandwidth cap, static IP etc., foobarry
<diddledan> I've got sky
<diddledan> 80Mbps/20Mbps+static IP
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: the admin console is a fine webapp too
<foobarry> i want cheap
<foobarry> no static ip
<foobarry> nothing fancy
<dwatkins> foobarry: ADSL or FTTC?
<diddledan> foobarry: cheap as a cheap thing with a dent in the side is plusnet
<foobarry> adsl
<foobarry> plusnet cheaper than taltalk?
<dwatkins> I'm about to switch to PlusNet for my FTTC connection, as they cost the same as my current ISP (IDNet) but don't cap.
<dwatkins> talktalk have lots of network issues where I live.
<foobarry> i don't use much internet at home
<foobarry> i'd like to ditch the phone line if poss but prob unlikely
<foobarry> i prob pay around 22.50 per month atm for phone+bband
<dwatkins> http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/phones/cheap-broadband has a few deals and some useful info on it
<foobarry> good idea
<dwatkins> I'm wary of talktalk and BT because of problems I've had with them in the past, but I hear good things about PlusNet.
<foobarry> dwatkins: how much for the plusnet package?
<dwatkins> foobarry: I'm going for fibre broadband, so it'll be more expensive than just ADSL
<foobarry> but no phone req'd?
<dwatkins> their prices are on here, though: http://www.plus.net/home-broadband/
<dwatkins> oh, you need a phone with any such connection
<dwatkins> sometimes line rental is included, often not
<dwatkins> you can pay line rental via your ISP, too, if you want
<foobarry> virgin don't demand it for fibre
<dwatkins> often it's cheaper if you pay up-front for a year's line rental
<dwatkins> ah yes, but then the phone is free because you already have Virgin's hardware (i.e. coax) installed, iirc
<dwatkins> I used to have phone, TV and internet with Virgin.
<foobarry> "free"
<foobarry> its a swindle :(
<dwatkins> indeed, "Free" as in "the price is included in that of the other service{s}.
<dwatkins> "
<dwatkins> ah yes, PlusNet's page has two tabs, one with and one without line rental
<foobarry> plusnet = 131.88 line rental for 1 yr + Â£2 pm broadband
<foobarry> talktalk = 126 line rental (next few days only) and 3.50/month bb
<dwatkins> foobarry: you may also want to compare the frequency of outages, e.g. http://www.talktalk.co.uk/servicestatus/ vs http://www.plus.net/supportpages.html?a=2
<dwatkins> I've used windows server for about 10 seconds today, and I already want to smash it with a hammer... sound familiar?
<foobarry> talktalk offering me Â£126 annual rental and monthly 2.25 recurring
<daftykins> for anyone who missed my lovely snaps
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/zls2rg6aokducef/eMeFTzT9nf
<daftykins> there's me coming into land over Guernsey and a couple of the neighbouring islands
 * awilkins is causing severe consternation to a Win2k12 server by .. asking it to do stuff
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: see that's what you're doing wrong
<awilkins> Have now got to the point where I can actually stuff documents into a Solr server with Nutch
<awilkins> Now have to contend with fact that these pages are complete cack
<dwatkins> sounds like something it doesn't like
<dwatkins> my Win2k3 server is slow, but that's because it's running on an ancient vmware 2.0 server with a 2.6 GHz core2duo
<dwatkins> if I could work out how to get vmware ESXI to run, I'd use that. It seems you need to install their management system on Windows which presents a webserver, so I'll need at least one Windows virtual machine.
<dwatkins> at least vmware 2.0 has a web-console by default (although it requires IE, which I need a virtual machine for)
<daftykins> ah yes the silly activex control for viewing?
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/4pnned647wmdp44/win8.png
<mapp> well lol my referred order went through..and i made a new one after itsaid referred argh
<lazarus_> anyone know how to boot iso files using grub 2
<daftykins> this is to do an update when you don't have a USB flash drive or spare DVD to burn i take it?
<BigRedS> Hrm, dist-upgrading to trusty doesn't seem to have given me any cool desktop wallpapers
<mapp> hm
<mapp> E: Invalid operation do-release-upgrade
<mapp> thats all i get
<davmor2> mapp: what are you trying to do?
<Laney> it's do-release-upgrade not apt-get do-release-upgrade
<mapp> oh duh
<mapp> silly me
<mapp> thanks;)
<daftykins> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tr9evVbg2ZY
<daftykins> very nice tune
<daftykins> heard iton BBC 6 Music in a burger place in Brighton this weekend
<dwatkins> daftykins: I love the description on the website of one of the tracks: "gorgeous and woozy piano-strewn opener Out of the Woodwork"
<daftykins> :D
<maps|wrk> hai
<maps|wrk> should i upgrade to 14.04 now then, hmm im just worried it might lock me out if i do it remotely:D
<daftykins> i personally think upgrades are a joke best avoided :)
<maps|wrk> what u on
<daftykins> lol
<daftykins> tea currently
<maps|wrk> i mean ubuntu rls
<daftykins> aaah
<daftykins> amusingly my servers are still on 10.04.4 so before next year comes around i have some work to do
<maps|wrk> thats kinda old now
<maps|wrk> :D
<daftykins> yep but it was LTS
<daftykins> which meant i have been able to nurture it for many moons
<maps|wrk> i still need to solve this pesky issue with http / and that rubbish thing that ruined my apache
<daftykins> but it's been weeks! :)
<maps|wrk> correct
<daftykins> have a look at what you've got in sites-available and sites-enabled in /etc/apache2/
<maps|wrk> and im stuck
<maps|wrk> :(
<maps|wrk> I installed from source..for apache..and it all worked ssl an all..then zetyal screwed it up
<daftykins> WAT
<maps|wrk> but now..it looks like zentyal isnt running ps aux | grep zentyal shows nothing
<daftykins> source on a packaged OS :(
<maps|wrk> ya
<maps|wrk> wanted to
<maps|wrk> :D
<daftykins> you sir have broken the #1 rule of fight club
<maps|wrk> lol
<daftykins> but yeah so my 14.04 server LTS upgrade plan would involve creating new VMs, then re-establishing packages and scp'ing content
<daftykins> then a port forward edit and all's good
<maps|wrk> looks like httpd.conf had the Listen 80 line removed..could zentyal have done something like that and made it a virtual host listenn on 80 by default
<daftykins> so where apache installed... you should still have sites-available and sites-enabled
<daftykins> you *really* need to look there first :)
<maps|wrk> apache is in /usr/local/apache/htdocs doc root
<daftykins> zentyal could've modified those
<maps|wrk> and /usr/local/apache/conf for copnf
<daftykins> ok
<maps|wrk> then conf./extras /httpd-vhost etc
<daftykins> what's in httpd-vhost/ ?
<maps|wrk> sec will pastebinit
<maps|wrk> http://paste.ubuntu.com/7316960/
<daftykins> do you access your home box via http://IP/ ?
<daftykins> or a dyndns / proper domain?
<maps|wrk> either works
<dwatkins> not for long
<maps|wrk> https://frogs.zapto.org or https://188.220.205.104
<maps|wrk> why?
<dwatkins> dyndns.org is no longer free
<maps|wrk> they're both working on that atm
<maps|wrk> argh no
<daftykins> yeah i need to sort out my noip
<dwatkins> likewise, and my blog is on a dyndns.org address (although it's static)
<daftykins> but my stupid router's web form for dynamic DNS configuration is bugged so i have to factory reset to edit it again
<daftykins> =|
<dwatkins> most routers I've looked at recently only have dyndns.org, sadly
<maps|wrk> hang on isnt my host a no-ip
<dwatkins> hooray for tomato alternative firmware
<daftykins> mine can have custom additions by telnet'ing in
<daftykins> but it already has noip
<daftykins> er free noip accounts are .no-ip.biz
<maps|wrk> ]ah no its not..its a dyndns ive got a no-ip ac too
<daftykins> maps|wrk: well neither of those even point to your document root, so it must be getting configured somewhere else
<maps|wrk> yea
<maps|wrk> in httpd.conf
<daftykins> can you pastebin that?
<maps|wrk> but thats enabled two vhosts hasnt it? to garbage sites
<maps|wrk> yep
<maps|wrk> hang on zapto.org os no-ip.com thats staying free i assume?
<daftykins> love your friendly welcome message btw
<maps|wrk> hahahahaha
<maps|wrk> yea its static too..need to change it so it's dynamic..that was my old static bethere ip had for6yrs
<maps|wrk> and i stole that MOTD off an efnet irc server;p
<daftykins> D:
<daftykins> plaigirism
<maps|wrk> :D
<maps|wrk> oke
<maps|wrk> lets see
<maps|wrk> gotta be careful with messing with apache..else il be looked out of irc (qwebirc) and also shell (shellinabox) cant ssh in id get in trouble for using an app i dont need
<maps|wrk> http://paste.ubuntu.com/7317005/
<maps|wrk> could that httpd-vhosts be causing an issue? as it has 2 defined there, which as i say are just garbage entries
<daftykins> so what's the idea of what's wrong? because i saw that message from one of your addys so surely that's being served from .../htdocs/ ?
<maps|wrk> yea
<maps|wrk> but hang on
<maps|wrk> that was https:// it doesn't work on http:// non SSL and it used ti before I installeed zentyal
<maps|wrk> then spent ages removing it and still wondering whats happened;/
<dwatkins> the cert is also invalid, but I imagine you know that
<maps|wrk> you see anything there which would be stopping http:// port 80
<maps|wrk> yea i know:) i generated it myself..i think you always get errors if its not signed by a 3rd party
<dwatkins> maps|wrk: either the port isn't open/forwarded on the firewall, or there's no process listening on it.
<dwatkins> when you start Apache, does it say there's a problem opening port 80 for listening? can you telnet to that port on the local network?
<maps|wrk> it did at one point./.but im not sure now ..i set apache to start at bootup and if i stop and start now i risk killing my connection and not being able to reconnect;p
<maps|wrk> the port's 100% definitely forwarded
<maps|wrk> lets see telnet
<dwatkins> no need to reboot
<maps|wrk> mark@frogs:/usr/local/apache/conf$ telnet localhost 80    Trying 127.0.0.1...   telnet: Unable to connect to remote host: Connection refused
<dwatkins> ok, check the Apache log or restart the daemon
<maps|wrk> how can i check to see if somethings listening on port 80? netstat and something
<dwatkins> lsof
<maps|wrk> you dont think it's anything to do with the err httpd-vhosts file
<maps|wrk> ah thanks
<maps|wrk> then grep 80?
<dwatkins> hmmm, not sure as I think the syntax has changed since I last used it
<dwatkins> look for a line like this:
<dwatkins> apache2     693      www-data    3u     IPv4  120878196        0t0        TCP *:http (LISTEN)
<maps|wrk> gives me a lot of results lsof
<maps|wrk> hm
<dwatkins> *:http means it's listening on all interfaces (network connections incoming) for http, i.e. port 80
<dwatkins> http is port 80 as devined in /etc/services
<dwatkins> *defined (haha)
<maps|wrk> httpd     3227 3251      apache  rtd   unknown                         /proc/3227/task/3251/root (readlink: Permission denied)
<maps|wrk> i see stuff like this..no mention of tcp.http
<daftykins> netstat -tuln is happy
<daftykins> yeah your config directive had :80 but not *:80
<maps|wrk> the httpd.conf should have Listen 80 - isnt it? the vhosts had *:80 - should i rm the vhosts? they arent used
<maps|wrk> http://paste.ubuntu.com/7317114/ error_log output started my machine at 16;19 - dont see any errors or anything about 80?
<dwatkins> I think apache logs to /var/log/syslog when it starts
<maps|wrk> ah
<maps|wrk> my mistake :|
<dwatkins> restart it with either "service apache2 restart" or "apachectl restart"
<dwatkins> then check the most recent files in /var/log and /var/log/apache2
<maps|wrk> but one more thing you see http://paste.ubuntu.com/7317005/ right httpd.conf - well it didnt have Listen 80 previously I just added it now --
<maps|wrk> would that fix it? or shall i remove it..dont wanna restart apache and break everything
<dwatkins> break what?
<maps|wrk> well stop apache starting on ssl even
<dwatkins> you have a backup of your working config file, don't you? ;)
<maps|wrk> as i added Listen 80 to httpd.conf -
<maps|wrk> yea
<maps|wrk> but
<maps|wrk> if it doesnt start up again i cant get back on here!!
<maps|wrk> il have to wait till i go home to fix it if it didnt come back:P
<dwatkins> hang on, how are you connected?
<maps|wrk> im connected through web browser using qwebirc and shellinabox
<dwatkins> ah ok
<maps|wrk> ssh is running..but i wont be able to connect to it, cant use any non work apps
<maps|wrk> so question is would Listen 80 break it:D
<dwatkins> find out what external ports you can access
<dwatkins> if you want to use ssh, there's probably a way, e.g. have ssh listen on port 443
<maps|wrk> but how would i connect..cant use putty
<dwatkins> ah ok, that's between you and your employer
<dwatkins> can you put apps onto a usb stick and run them?
<maps|wrk> nope
<maps|wrk> :(
<dwatkins> I guess shellinabox is probably the simplest way, though
<maps|wrk> thats why im mtrying to make sure apache does come back
<dwatkins> so, you need a separate entry in the sites-enabled directory for the port 80 webserver, or a second port to listen on (i.e. 80 as well as 443)
<dwatkins> not sure how to have the same webserver listen via http and https at the same time, though
<maps|wrk> well, im not sure it worked before using the https config file in the conf/extras dir
<maps|wrk> but i noticed in the httpd.conf file (main config file) was no entry for listen 80 where there normally is by defualt..so figured it could be that
<maps|wrk> but then also what are these random odd vhosts entries
<maps|wrk> :D
<dwatkins> did you follow a guide like this? http://httpd.apache.org/docs/current/ssl/ssl_howto.html
<maps|wrk> na
<maps|wrk> brb
<maps|wrk> hm
<maps|wrk> mark@frogs:/usr/local/apache/conf$ sudo /etc/init.d/apachectl restart  [Wed Apr 23 20:51:46.116226 2014] [so:warn] [pid 4681:tid 3075208896] AH01574: module authz_core_module is already loaded, skipping
<maps|wrk> no errors about port 80 or unable to use port
<dwatkins> copy the existing config, go home, read the guide, implement it :)
<maps|wrk> :)
<dwatkins> to be honest, that's the easiest way, as your config might have some other thing that's causing a problem
<maps|wrk> yea
<bashrc> the problem I was having with installing ubuntu the other day turned out to be the fault of unetbootin
<daftykins> UEFI install?
<maps|wrk> trying to install off usb?
<bashrc> when I used the startup disk utility to make a bootable USB drive the installation just worked
<daftykins> ah, so mac?
<daftykins> yeah unetbootin is widely commented as borking for UEFI
<maps|wrk> ya whats all this UEFI daftykins  heard it makes it hard to install other OSs
<daftykins> :)
<daftykins> it's BIOS' replacement
<bashrc> I don't think it's UEFI because the laptop is approximately 4 years old
<daftykins> oh ok so not a mac?
<bashrc> no a lenovo
<daftykins> ah well
<daftykins> unetbootin seems to cause more trouble here and there :)
<daftykins> maps|wrk: i'm just about to switch off my desktop and go cook so can't elaborate there right now i'm afraid!
<bashrc> in the past I found unetbootin to be more reliable than the startup disk creator, but things must have changed
<daftykins> ultimately it's the new tech to allow newer features along with being able to boot from GPT disks that are 3TB or larger etc.
<daftykins> i just use dd
<daftykins> :>
<maps|wrk> yea but ive heard its a pain installing say even win7 on a new machine that coes with win8?
<daftykins> or universal usb installer from pendrivelinux.com if i've a windows host
<daftykins> only if you're not willing to root around in your system's setup screens really
<bashrc> can you just dd the iso directly to the usb drive?
<maps|wrk> ya thats quite good
<daftykins> bashrc: yip
<maps|wrk> you can? didnt know
<bashrc> hah, never really considered doing that
<daftykins> dd if=blah.iso of=/dev/sdX
<maps|wrk> can you get grub to boot off ajn iso? someone was asking earlier
<daftykins> making sure you don't try and use a partition e.g. /dev/sdb1
<daftykins> has to be the main device itself
<daftykins> yeah
<daftykins> i don't know how but GRUB can have a menu entry added to point to an ISO
<bashrc> anyway problem solved.  I probably won't be using unetbootin again.
<daftykins> :)
<daftykins> k gotta go, laters o/
<maps|wrk> i hink i used unbetbootin and it worked fine
<daftykins> yeah lots of variables in this land of computers
<foobarry> 3.8.0-38 isn't letting my laptop suspend
<foobarry> but if i try to remove the package it tries to remove raring-lts package too
<maps|wrk> 3.0-=38 of what
<foobarry> ubuntu kernel
<maps|wrk> oh
<diddledan> oh, I see unicorns made an unsurprising appearance at the naming ceremony of 14.10
<dwatkins> ultimate unicorn
<diddledan> nope
<diddledan> utopic
<graingert_> ngert
<diddledan> ngert!!
<diddledan> nnnnngert!!!
<diddledan> sorry, just squeezing one out
<diddledan> like _graingert did above...
<_graingert> :?
<diddledan> :-p
<maps|wrk> fixed apache
<maps|wrk> :D
<maps|wrk> it was as simple as inserting Listen 80- into httpd.conf
<daftykins> Â£42.49 for a 1TB WD Red to fix the dying disk in my array
<daftykins> *or*
<daftykins> Â£61.38 for a 2TB WD Red
#ubuntu-uk 2014-04-24
<ali1234> what happens with webpages on hidpi displays?
<ali1234> does the browser just lie about media width to make things work?
<slvr> ali1234: CSS pixels != device pixels
<slvr> See devicePixelRatio
<ali1234> no in other words, yes, it just lies?
<ali1234> *so
<mapp> morning
<jussi> morning all
<mapps> morning jussi
<mapps> whats up
<jussi> sky, ceiling... :P
<mapps> pffff
<mapps> ;]
<MooDoo> morning all
<mapps> morning MooDoo
<MooDoo> how are you mapps
<mapps> not bad..watching last tv ep for the night
<mapps> then bed:)
<diplo> Morning all
<andylockran> morning all
<MooDoo> morning diplo andylockran
<dwatkins> morning all
<MooDoo> morning
<kvarley-work> Trying to run 2XClient on Ubuntu 14.04 64-bit and it keeps just crashing on load with a segmentation fault. Console chucks out this message "/opt/2X/2xclient.sh: line 4:  3067 Segmentation fault      (core dumped) LD_LIBRARY_PATH=../lib ./2XClient $@" Any ideas?
<MartijnVdS> what's "2xclient"?
<MartijnVdS> if it crashes like that, it's probably a bug in the application, or you're not running it on a supported platform (it being in /opt suggests it's not from a package, the LD_LIBRARY_PATH almost confirms it)
<kvarley-work> MartijnVdS: It's a proprietary RDP client that's available from the Ubuntu Software Centre
<MartijnVdS> I'd file a bug then :)
<TwistedLucidity> kvarley-work: Not much help, but Remmina and KRDC both work well. Might tide you over.
<TwistedLucidity> Assuming it's standard RDP protocols you are using
<kvarley-work> TwistedLucidity: yeah thanks I'm using remmina now. I just find 2X performs a lot better with the servers I'm working with. Will wait until its updated. thanks anyway :)
<brobostigon> good morning boys and girls.
<MartijnVdS> \o brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning MartijnVdS
<MooDoo> morning morning
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo
<popey> AlanBell: saw this and thought of you (and czajkowski) http://i.imgur.com/4ChkRqV.jpg
<foobarry> my wife's phone adds an extra 7 to the mobile number for about 5 people when replying to an SMS e.g. 07941111111 becomes 077941111111 . any ideas?
<foobarry> have cleared those people frmo contacts, sent a fresh txt. and it happens again when replying
<czajkowski> popey: awww
<czajkowski> popey: AlanBell TheOpenSourcerer http://guildfordbeerfestival.co.uk/
 * TheOpenSourcerer goes and checks the diary...
 * TheOpenSourcerer would appear to be available czajkowski
<popey> sadly I am not
 * nigelb hasn't seen AlanBell in a while
 * TheOpenSourcerer looks at him every day
<TheOpenSourcerer> well - apart from weekends.
<popey> you have a webcam for that, right?
<nigelb> lol
<TheOpenSourcerer> ha
<MooDoo> popey: reminds me of an episode of the big bang theory where sheldon was a robot, perhaps AlanBell is just a monitor on the top of TheOpenSourcerer desk at work :D
<jussi> MooDoo: or TheOpenSourcerer is just AlanBell's alterego... Ive met AlanBell, but this sourcerer....
<jussi> :P
<MooDoo> jussi: so what you're saying is you've never seem them in the same room together?
<foobarry> anyone have suggestions waht to do about latest 3.8.0-38 kernel not letting my laptop suspend? 3.8.0-37 works..
<MartijnVdS> http://opensslrampage.tumblr.com/ is such fun :)
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: file a bug, or upgrade to 14.04 ;)
<jussi> MooDoo: yeah, pretty much that :P
 * jussi is feeling somewhat american
<jussi> (peanut butter and jam sandwiches)
<nigelb> jussi: not, vegemite or marmite?!
<Laney> at least it's not jelly
<Laney> (too wobbly)
<jussi> not today..
<jussi> Laney: true that
<jussi> but american jelly is different to ours...
<Laney> yeah I was being funny :(
<jussi> Laney: failed :P
<Laney> it's alright I laughed at it myself :(
<davmor2> anyone else having issues with irc today?
<MooDoo> davmor2: no
<jussi> davmor2: yes, you are on it! :P :P
 * jussi hugs davmor2
<MooDoo> davmor2: what's going on with yours chap?
<davmor2> MooDoo: everything on irc keeps restarting but only irc I ping and browse as usual hence asking if it was just me or everyone
<MooDoo> stupid computers.
<jussi> davmor2: does your status window have any useful messages?
<popey> Should I expect to be able to fsck a mac formatted hdd in my linux laptop and it fix it?
<MartijnVdS> I don't know if there are HFS(+) fsck tools for Linux
<MartijnVdS> if it's btrfs/ext[234] then yes
<popey> its hfs+
<xnox> popey: you can fix non-journaled ones. no fsck for journaled.
<popey> bugger
<xnox> popey: it's optional hfs+ feature, but enabled by default on all macs unless explicitely disabled by the user.
<popey> ta
<xnox> popey: there are recovery disk-utilities you can boot - if you have a mac.
<popey> oh, thats a good point, i do have another mac, i could attach it to that and try and fix
<xnox> popey: either third-party or any mac os x installer dvd / usb-stick, all have disk-utilitiy available to launch
<popey> good call!
<popey> sounds like a lunchtime task!
<popey> Oh look! Lunchtime!
<davmor2> that's looking a bit more stable apparently my new router might be the cause will leave that till the weekend though dd-wrt might be required :)
<popey> \o/ chugging away
<Laney> chugga chugga
<davmor2> popey: your at work what are you doing chugging beer ;)
<jussi> anyone know how to make the left and right tilt on my mouses scrollwheel actually do something?
<jussi> like perhaps back/forward in the browser?
<MartijnVdS> jussi: they scroll horizontally
<MartijnVdS> on mine anyway
<jussi> oh... so they do. that sucks.
<jussi> I wonder if I can change that somewhere
<popey> paste.ubuntu.com/7321955/ thats bad â¹
<jussi> you know, it just dawned on me... the oneplus is actually what was going to be the ubuntu edge. :P :P
<popey> hardly
<popey> too big for one
<TheOpenSourcerer> I don't get the capacitive *AND* on-screen button thing... Seems like a square peg/round hole thing to me.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Gosh - Ubuntu spam from eBuyer.... "Alan, HP 255 G1 Laptop with Ubuntu only Â£219.99 + Free Next Day Delivery" :-D
<Oli> At that price it could have another set of physical buttons inside the case and I wouldn't mind.
<awilkins> Woo, 64GB version!
<awilkins> Woo $349
<popey> not a bad price for that little laptop
<andylockran> :( popey
<andylockran> just seen your dead laptop
<andylockran> Â¢/win 4
<popey> Sam is on a school trip to Windsor Castle today
<davmor2> popey: it's easter break isn't it?
<popey> no, they went back yesterday
<davmor2> ah not here they didn't I don't think
<popey> I'd be surprised.
<davmor2> popey: I don't know not having kids but the traffic is too light at school leaving time
 * popey tries to remember a time before kids
<davmor2> popey: I get Sue from the hospice around 15-16:00 too little traffic
<TheOpenSourcerer> our kids went back on Tuesday.
<popey> probably some grown-ups still on easter hols
<davmor2> popey: it's when you were slim had a capri and fun ;)
<popey> â»
<popey> true, except s/capri/manta/
 * TheOpenSourcerer never had a Capri :-(
<TheOpenSourcerer> Talbot Solara
<davmor2> popey: it wasn't a bad guess
<TheOpenSourcerer> Honda CB200 with Reverse Cone Megaphones ;-)
<davmor2> popey: so if we here about a secondary fire breaking out at windsor castle today we know why right :)
<davmor2> popey: ohhhh LV issue 3 on digital download now :)
<dvrr> how to  restore  multiple databases mysql  command line
<popey> davmor2: yay
<popey> my dad had a Talbot Solara.. PLM 573W
<popey> and an Horizon, ELY 760T
<dvrr> i have taken multiple databases   single sql file how to restore all  Ubuntu please help me
<awilkins> mysql -uroot -p <big-fat-sql-file.sql
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<diddledan> ditto
 * diddledan yawns
<mapps> yo
<diddledan> http://altairclone.com/
<shauno> interesting. prettier than the briel computers one
<Saur0> hi can anyone help me with a ssh problem?
<Tom92> Hello. I'm completly  new to ubuntu. I'm trying to boot from a usb 1.1 (yeah I know). I used pendrivelinux to make the bootable drive. When I try to boot however all i get are fans and a black sceen. I waited it out for a good while, maybe 15-20 minutes what with trying to boot fro 1.1. I'm on an acer aspire 5930G with 4 GB ram and 250 GB HDD . and I'm trying to boot the latest version of ubuntu, 64bit. does anyone have any clue wh
<Tom92> oh and I've changed the boot priority to USB-HDD and it's picking up my drive.
<Tom92> Sorry for the bombardment!
<Tom92> Hi all, just to clarify, the machine is picking up my drive but is still not booting. Advice still welcome. T
<ducky_> is this system still used?
<diddledan> ubuntu? yes, I believe so
<ducky_> Alright :D
<diddledan> they're starting to put it in phones now, dun'tchaknow
<ducky_> because ive had some problems letely with graphics are far as ubuntu is concerned
<ducky_> +as far
<ducky_> im thinking of installing 14.04 now but i really dont want to fuss with what happened to my graphics last time
<ducky_> after installing the driver for my gtx 660 with ubuntu it gets stuck in 800x600
<ducky_> before is fine
<ducky_> and if i use hdmi instead of dvi
<ducky_> it works fine too
<ducky_> and my second screen displays the correct res
<ducky_> usually trying to force a res is leading to the edid
<ducky_> being bad
<ducky_> is there a way i can take windows edid and use that
<ducky_> or just another way to force 1080 into ubuntu
<diddledan> afaik the edid is embedded in the monitor
<ducky_> yep
<ducky_> so its either dont install drivers and not be able to use steam
<ducky_> or just install them and enjoy 800x600
<aquarius> popey, ping -- you did tell me before how to get the version number of the most recent promoted phone image, but when the compputer died I lost the logs :(
<popey> system settings -> about
<aquarius> popey, that shows the version I'm running, not whether there's a newer version to install, doesn't it? I'm dual-boot so I have to upgrade from teh android app
<popey> oh, dunno about that
<popey> aquarius: lemme ask you a question...
<popey> phaser.io looks awesome
<aquarius> I've seen it, but not used it for anything yet
<popey> but requires that it be loaded from a webserver, and not locally loaded, apparently it uses get requsts and json stuff which has to pull from a server, not local filesystem
<aquarius> yeah; these days, you pretty much need a webserver to do anything
<popey> so there's no way that is going to fly on an ubuntu phone as a local app
<popey> which is a bummer
<aquarius> hrm
<aquarius> I wish I could say that QML had a really good XMLHttpRequest implementation and so this wouldn't be a problem
<popey> which leads to my question - how could I?
<aquarius> but it does not.
<aquarius> well, you could spin up a web server pretty easily in C or Go, I imagine
<aquarius> but I can't see how you can stop other apps on the device connecting to it
<popey> oh, i could ship a little apache/lighttpd or whatever in my app?
<aquarius> this is the desktopcouch problem all over again
<aquarius> yeah. Not apache ;)
<aquarius> I imagine that Qt has be-a-webserver stuff in it
<popey> well, whatever, i could launch one from my app?
<aquarius> I'd do it in process, myself
<aquarius> http://doc.qt.digia.com/solutions/4/qtservice/qtservice-example-server.html
<popey> doc.qt.digia.com/solutions/4/qtservice/qtservice-example-server.html
<popey> hah
<aquarius> top hit
<aquarius> that's qt 4
<aquarius> but you can see that it's possible
<aquarius> I'm not enough of a C++ guy to know how to do it, though
<aquarius> and we can't do python apps :)
<popey> but surely I could ship a tiny binary server?
<aquarius> yeah
<aquarius> I don't know how the application lifecycle works then, though
<popey> spawn it then launch my browser container thing
<aquarius> you're not allowed to run background apps, right?
<popey> but its not background
<popey> it's run by my app
<aquarius> what happens if you just execute system("something &")
<popey> which is currently in the foreground
<popey> dunno
<aquarius> yeah, but it has to be a separate process
<diddledan> popey: can you not use file:/// urls?
<popey> no diddledan
<aquarius> otherwise your foreground app is blocked
<diddledan> dang
<diddledan> that sucks
<aquarius> or it has to be in-process
<aquarius> so now "your app" is two processes; the webserver, and the browser container
<aquarius> I don't know if that's allowed.
<aquarius> tedg or jdstrand or someone would know, I imagine
<popey> i dont understand why it wouldn't be
<popey> surely apps dont have to be 1:1 app:process
<aquarius> well, the app lifecycle thing suspends your app when you switch to another app
<popey> right
<popey> but Im not doing that
<popey> I'm looking at my app
<popey> and this is a child of my app
<popey> we should move this to -app-devel and highlight relavent people â»
<aquarius> if your app's started 2 processes.... how does the lifecycle thing know which 2 processes they are?
<popey> cgroups iirc
<popey> thats not something you or i need worry about
<popey> you start your app, your app could spawn 10 processes, but they belong to that upstart job
<BigRedS_> Does a bug being marked as 'confirmed' from 'triaged' suggest anything about an intention to fix it?
<BigRedS_> (it's bug 1243240 which I suspect to be either user-error or working-as-designed, so I'm intrigued as to whether that status change implies a future change to these menu buttons)
<lubotu3> bug 1243240 in indicator-messages (Ubuntu) "It is unclear what sort of unread message is being indicated" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1243240
<ali1234> popey: re phaser.io, with Qt you can override the http transport mechanism and therefore cause your app to handle all requests internally... it's really very good
<popey> oh?
<popey> that sounds delightful
<ali1234> yeah there is a class called like QtWebkitHttpRequest or something
<ali1234> i've used it for my web archiver in order to catch and archive all http requests done by the page, but you could also redirect the requests to local resources
<aquarius> ali1234, ooh, that's a sneaky plan -- have the web *think* that it's doing http requests but instead they're being intercepted.
<aquarius> clever
<aquarius> still needs c++ though :)
<ali1234> you can do it in python also
<ali1234> you can't do anything good with only QML... despite what the developers say, it's really just a replacement for XML user interface files
<aquarius> no python on the phone, is the problem there.
<ali1234> http://qt-project.org/doc/qt-4.8/qnetworkrequest.html <- i think this is the thing you need to hook into... but i can't really remember
<aquarius> I disagree; you can do a lot with pure QML
<popey> there is python on the phone
<popey> root@black-phablet:~# python
<popey> Python 2.7.6 (default, Mar 22 2014, 23:30:12)
<aquarius> but you hit problems in certain areas where qml just isn't there for you
<aquarius> popey, but writing click apps in it is not allowed, right?
<ali1234> you can do a lot... but not anything interesting
<ali1234> actually i would apply the same criticism to click apps
<aquarius> depends on your definition of interesting, I suppose. If you could have written a phonegap app to do it, you can do it with pure QML instead, mostly.
<popey> i dunno what makes you say python isnt allowed
<popey> long running python programs are discouraged, sure
<aquarius> popey, it's OK to write click apps in python??
<popey> i have not heard anyone say no
<aquarius> I have. It's all "use pure QML if you can; C++ and (soon) Go if you need more, or C/OpenGL"
<aquarius> if that's wrong, then great!
<popey> thats the recommnended supported path
<ali1234> i would expect you could override Qt classes with Go
<aquarius> you can -- gustavo and others have made go a perfectly good Qt host lamnguage, apparently
<aquarius> although I havent' tried it, yet
<diddledan> I had a cursory look at QML - it looks weird to me coming from an HTML background
<aquarius> it's got some weird parts. But I like it.
<ali1234> diddledan: it's just like HTML/javascript DOM, except with Qt objects instead of HTML elements
<ali1234> and the syntax is a little bit weird
<diddledan> oh I does have programmability? from what I saw (very limited) it was just markup with very little actual logic
<ali1234> no that's about right
<ali1234> it has the same level of programmability you get with javascript, because that's basically what it is
<ali1234> you can do logic, and set/get properties on Qt objects
<ali1234> you can't make new Qt objects
<ali1234> you can probably do pixel access on a QCanvas but it's going to suck
<ali1234> if you want to do complex things, you build the component in C++ and then use it in QML
<ali1234> it's designed for kinetic scroller apps and very simple 2D games (eg solitaire, minesweeper)
<ali1234> basically the kind of shovelware you find in app stores for 99c
<popey> aquarius: right, so any time you wanna make me a framework app that I can stuff my phaser.io code in. that'd be sweet â»
<diddledan> lol
<ali1234> that sounds like an interesting challenge actually
<ali1234> what does it actually need on the server side?
<popey> so the idea was to write a simple game for ubuntu phone using phaser.io
<popey> but this was the stumbling block i had
<aquarius> popey, it's doable if I can use Python. I'm still on 13.10 right now, but once I upgrade I'd be happy to throw together a tiny PyQt app to do it, assuming that pyqt is available on the phone!
<popey> so the game needs to be in a directory that the server serves out
<ali1234> is that all? just serve files?
<popey> aquarius: no pyqt
<aquarius> popey, if I can't use Python for this (say because PyQt isn't on the phone) then you'll need a C++ person, and I suspect ali1234 is your man ;)
<popey> ali1234: i think so
<ali1234> in fact
<ali1234> you might not need to do anything at all if it just serves files
<popey> i thought it might be handy to have a framework into which people could dump their phaser.io game, run "click build foo" and job done
<aquarius> for a c++ person it'd take about fifteen seconds to write a tiny app which launches a qtwebkit container and overrides its http requests to point at a folder.
<ali1234> just convert all URLs from http: to qrc:
<ali1234> or file:
<popey> no, file wont work
<popey> it needs get requests
<ali1234> why not?
<ali1234> oh. and what does it do with those requests?
<aquarius> same origin policy,.
<popey> well, for loading assets and tilemap etc
<aquarius> two file: URLs are not in the same origin, so a browser will sod you up.
<ali1234> you can turn that stuff off
<aquarius> not very easily :(
<popey> not on our browser I suspect
<aquarius> qtwebkit doesn't expose as much stuff as it perhaps should.
<ali1234> so... where is the code that runs on the webserver to make this stuff work?
<aquarius> it's easier to have the html/js believe that it's talking to a server and operating as it expects, even if behind the scenes you trap the requests.
<popey> https://github.com/photonstorm/phaser-examples for example
<popey> popey.com/~alan/phaser/phaser-examples/examples/ e.g.
<aquarius> there isn't any server-side code; it's all client-side. But it expects to be running from a webserver, not from file: URLs, so that everything's int he same origin.
<popey> yes, that
<aquarius> Yes, you can, if you know what you're doing, make this stuff work with file: URLs, but it's actually harder than *not* doing that and instead overriding qnetworkrequest or just running a webserver.
<ali1234> popey: so what's actually in that directory server side?
<popey> just a git clone of that github repo
<popey> nothing more
<ali1234> nothing at all executable
<popey> its serving static files
<popey> correct
<ali1234> so you don't actually need http urls then
<popey> other than what aquarius said
<ali1234> the server isn't doing anything with the get requests
<popey> phaser.io is known not to work with file urls
<ali1234> it's just handing them back to the browser
<aquarius> if you don't use http urls, the browser security model will sod you up.
<ali1234> yeah but that will be the origin policy only
<aquarius> so you can either use http, or turn off the security model.
<aquarius> I think that using http (from the browser's point of view) is easier
<aquarius> and then override that http in Qt so that it's *actually* just serving files.
<ali1234> yeah
<ali1234> that would be one way to do it
<ali1234> btw: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/8090462/qtwebkit-same-origin-policy
<ali1234> it might not work with file: in a normal browser, but what if you do that? ^
<aquarius> as you said above, just handle qnetworkrequest to do the moral equivalent of "on request http://localhost/$foo: return load_text_file($currentdir + "/" + $foo)"
<aquarius> browsers are weird about file: URLs
<aquarius> I've spent ages in the past trying to override that in order to serve complex web apps from the filesystem
<aquarius> and it's just not worth the hassle. :)
<aquarius> if you're served from a file: URL, you can't make XHRs to file: URLs, even if they're in the same origin
<aquarius> so you'd have to turn that off too, etc, etc.
<aquarius> maybe it's worth trying the suggestions there
<ali1234> trying it..
<aquarius> (although I think those are the Qt 4 WebSettings things, but maybe it hasn't changed much in Qt 5)
<aquarius> this might also be problematic when Oxide arrives, but then so will overriding qnetworkrequest :)
<aquarius> worth a try, indeed
<popey> oxide arrived
<aquarius> rly?
<popey> which is my next question, can you embed oxide in qt rather than qtwebkit â»
<aquarius> the changelogs don't seem to mention major changes tot he web browser?
<popey> liboxideqtcore is on the image
<aquarius> popey, if oxide has properly arrived then you should be automatically embedding it without changing anything, as I understand it
<aquarius> ah. "Oxide is available" is not the same thing as "the platform web widget and the browser are now oxide" ;)
<aquarius> we may be in the interregnum here.
<popey> the browser is
<popey> and the webapp thing is
<aquarius> !!
<popey> way faster
<aquarius> that's what I was checking the changelogs for
<aquarius> I must have missed it.
<aquarius> I shall upgrade to 303 then :)
<popey> no need
<popey> its in the released image
<popey> wait, which one you on?
<aquarius> 296.
<popey> wwait one
<popey> ok, my "stable" phone is 302 which already has it
<aquarius> right
<aquarius> I am now upgrading :)
<popey> arrived in 295
<popey> people.canonical.com/~ogra/touch-image-stats/295.changes
<ali1234> um... okay
<ali1234> it "just works"
<aquarius> ali1234, cool -- then perhaps I was overly cautious! encouraging
<ali1234> http://paste.ubuntu.com/7325256/
<popey> neat
<ali1234> presumably it would work in QML too with no problems
<aquarius> popey, it'd be useful to try that and test all the examples
<aquarius> I'm not sure if you can get the current folder in QML
<ali1234> but you'd know where you app is going to be installed
<popey> nope
<aquarius> npe
<ali1234> lol
<aquarius> it's not installed to a hardcoded path
<popey> click packages are relocatable
<ali1234> embed everything into the exe then
<aquarius> precisely absolutely to stop people hardcoding paths into their apps.
<ali1234> and use qrc:
<aquarius> ali1234, if you're in qml then you don't have an exe, ideally -- just use qmlscene. The instant you have your own exe, you're a C++ person, which I suspect popey is trying to avoid :)
<ali1234> well
<ali1234> if you can't use qrc and you can't have a known resource directory... how the hell does anyone do anything at all with QML?
<popey> surely you can use relative paths
<popey> file:///./foo
<ali1234> perhaps
<aquarius> popey, you *might* be able to make your command line in the desktop file be something like "qmlscene $PWD myapp.qml" or something
<aquarius> I don't know if the current directory is actually set to your app's install location, though.
<ali1234> self.web.load(QUrl("examples/index.html")) works
<aquarius> sounds like another question for -app-devel, that: how do I construct a file:/// URL in QML/HTML without writing a C++ plugin to return the current directory?
<popey> perfect
<aquarius> ali1234, that'll work on the desktop, ya, but the phone's a mildly different operating environment
<popey> thats should work there too imo
 * popey will test
<ali1234> it shouldn't matter, if it does then QUrl has a bug
<aquarius> ali1234, you're saying that QUrl is *supposed* to resolve URLs relative to the path of the Python file?
<aquarius> not relative to the CWD?
<ali1234> if even CWD isn't right under click packages then click packages are retarded
<aquarius> Disagree.
<popey> it is
<aquarius> I think it would be perfectly reasonable for the CWD to be the user data folder for this app, not the program data folder for this app
<popey> the CWD is where the main qml file is
<popey> panic ye not
<popey> AIUI
<aquarius> popey, ah, really? then you're OK :)
<ali1234> well the question is not just about QUrl but *anything* you load from disk
<ali1234> not all of these games actually work btw
<ali1234> breakout and invaders don't work
<ali1234> they don't work when loaded from http either though
<ali1234> probably webkit bugs
<czajkowski> hmm anyone set up a  LT2P VPN on Ubuntu ?
<popey> ali1234: i just tested with qml and it fails...
<popey> https://imgur.com/0t4x7Q6
<popey> paste.ubuntu.com/7325356/
<ali1234> probably made changes in Qt5 then
<aquarius> I don't know if the allow-file-access-from-files setting is exposed to qml's webview
<aquarius> but I'll bet that's what's causing it to fail
<aquarius> that needs turning on
<ali1234> qmlviewer: could not exec '/usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/qt4/bin/qmlviewer': No such file or directory
<aquarius> you'll want qmlscene for qt5
<popey> qmlscene -qtf foo.qml
<popey> er
<popey> qmlscene -qt5 foo.qml
<ali1234> qmlscene: could not exec '/usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/qt5/bin/qmlscene': No such file or directory
<popey> fun
<ali1234> what is oxideqmlscene?
<ali1234> installed it, now i get: local.qml:3 "components": no such directory
<popey> you're missing the ubuntu sdk I imagine
<popey> nvm
<ali1234> why does ubuntu-sdk want to install indicator-network?
<ali1234> there should be a way to install an sdk that won't totally mess up my system by installing things like unity, mir, ubuntu-system-settings etc
<popey> +1
<ali1234> just don't implement that using scratchbox
<ali1234> because that is even more intrusive and dangerous
<ali1234> install ubuntu-sdk, still doesn't work
<ali1234> diddledan: remember when i said i was going to ask you a hard question? what do you think about this: http://paste.ubuntu.com/7325524/ http://paste.ubuntu.com/7325523/
<ali1234> is making so many media rules going to clog the browser?
<ali1234> is there a better way to do it, that doesn't involve javascript?
<diddledan> wow that is a fair few. TBH I've not done any investigations into the slowdowns caused by media query proliferation. I tend to use SASS/SCSS or LESS which means I probably end up with a similar explosion of media queries
<ali1234> yeah, i've looked at those, but the have a tonne of depencies that i don't understand, so i just wrote a python script that does the same thing :)
<ali1234> maybe i should just use javascript for this - it would be more likely to work in every browser...
<diddledan> you don't really need to worry about the dependencies, gem (for sass) or npm (for less) tend to take care of it all automatically
<ali1234> and directly calculating the optimal width would be much easier since i could just get the parent element size instead of having to guess it based on the media width and height
<ali1234> yeah thing is i don't have gem or node installed
<diddledan> apt-get install node
<ali1234> i don't want to
<diddledan> :-p
<ali1234> lol
<diddledan> stick-in-the-mud!
<ali1234> anyway, generating the css isn't the issue
<ali1234> all i want is to arrange a bunch of equal sized images into rows using the space optimally
<ali1234> minimizing height while ensuring no image is smaller than a fixed pixel size, and also making sure each full row completely fills the space
<ali1234> and ensuring there are no more than (number of rows-1) empty spaces in the grid
<diddledan> I'm not sure there's an easy answer for that
<ali1234> in javascript it wold be a few lines
<ali1234> and the page requires javascript anyway
<ali1234> so i might as well do that
<ali1234> at the end of the day all it has to do is decide how many items per row based on the container size in pixels, the minimum item size in pixels, and the number of items
<diddledan> yeah, I tend to be of the opinion that : try not to use javascript at all bar for visual gimicks UNLESS you're already using javascript for inherent functionality of the site.
<diddledan> so in this case you're on the UNLESS step
<ali1234> and then set width:$(100/n)%; on every item
<ali1234> http://dev.drumoff.tv/ is the site - this is for the video player right in the middle, for the playlist
<ali1234> note this website is fully responsive too, so everything resizes all the time
<aquarius> ali1234, you know about flexbox, yes?
<ali1234> is that like lightbox?
<aquarius> no. layout method
<aquarius> css
<aquarius> it takes a bit to understand it
<aquarius> but I think once you do understand it, it may well be able to do what you're talking about above in pure css
<ali1234> that's not what i want. all the images are guaranteed to be the same size
<ali1234> maybe it is what i want actually
<aquarius> no guarantees that it's exactly what you want, but it looks like it should be
<aquarius> also, why not just float the images?
<ali1234> they *are* floated
<aquarius> if they're floated, and sized in percentages, why do you need the calculation stuff? I must be missing something?
<ali1234> because i don't know in advance how many mages there will be
<ali1234> and there might be too many to fit on one row
<ali1234> if there are 11 images, i want 6 x 2
<ali1234> if there are 14 images i want 7 x 2
<ali1234> unless the container is narrower than 7 * 70px
<ali1234> then i want 5 x 3
<aquarius> but they're all guaranteed to be the same size, you said
<ali1234> etc
<ali1234> yes
<aquarius> what if 6x2 doesn't fit?
<ali1234> then 4 x 3
<diddledan> they're scaled by the front-end
<diddledan> percentage-based
<ali1234> they are all the same size, and scaled to (the same) percentage of that, depending on how many images i want per row
<aquarius> ah!
<diddledan> bingo
<aquarius> you're OK with changing the image size
<ali1234> hang on let me turn on debug and you can see the effect
<aquarius> got it.
<aquarius> I'd do that with JS, myself.
<ali1234> okay reload :)
<ali1234> and try resizing the page both horizontally and vertically
<aquarius> url?
<ali1234> this is currently done with pure css
<ali1234> dev.drumoff.tv
<aquarius> ah dev.drumoff.tv
<ali1234> scroll to video player
<ali1234> it has multiple rows now, with 5 to 21 images
<aquarius> *nod* I don't think that's sensibly doable in pure css, indeed
<diddledan> question: how do I enter to win those cool prizes alluded-to by the slider? :-p
<ali1234> i found two bugs in chrome while making this
<aquarius> you can do it the way you are doing it, with loads of media queries
<aquarius> having loads of media queries won't massively impact the browser
<ali1234> diddledan: you film yourself playing a 30 second drum solo and enter it into the competition
<aquarius> but it will make your debugging life a misery ;)
<diddledan> dang
<diddledan> I'm not good at drums
<diddledan> will a kazoo be as good?
<daftykins> work on it sir!
<daftykins> also hi
<diddledan> ello :-)
<ali1234> no, it has to specifically be only kick snare hat
<daftykins> i be lurking
<diddledan> -_-
<diddledan> was that even a thing, or just three random words put together?
<ali1234> they are all types of percussion
<diddledan> kick punch nose
<diddledan> :-p
<shauno> sounds like animal cruelty to me.  although I'm not sure why a hare needs a hat
<daftykins> how else would it come into being?
<diddledan> shauno: you do mac, fix my time machine
<daftykins> what be broke of it?
<shauno> well, basically.  time machine.  the rest is just details
<diddledan> it complains about null
<daftykins> delete that plist?
<diddledan> which plist?
<diddledan> o_O
<daftykins> i think it determines TM's config or some jazz
<daftykins> then it's defaulted and you can start anew
<diddledan> but then I lose my history
<diddledan> hence, no point in TM at all
<daftykins> nah you just link it up to the drive again
<shauno> that's a good thing.  your history is pretty shady.
<daftykins> and it knows based on name etc
<diddledan> every time I've reset tm in the past it's created a new backup
<diddledan> such as by installing from a TM backup causes TM to reset the TM history
<daftykins> yeah it'd do a whole full backup again
<diddledan> then what's the point of historical backups?!
<daftykins> well you could give us better logs instead sir :)
<diddledan> ok, "The backup disk image "/Volumes/TimeMachine/tantalum.sparsebungle" could not be accessed (error (null))."
<daftykins> lol bungle
<daftykins> bundle?
<diddledan> last successful backup says the twenty twoth
<shauno> curious, what's the bungle hosted on?
<diddledan> oldest backup is the 2th because that's when it last ducked-up and I reset the thing
<diddledan> freenas
<shauno> (assuming it's a remote share, since that's why it'd use a bungle)
<daftykins> heh is it not bundle
<shauno> it's killing you isn't it.  bungle bungle bungle
<daftykins> 8D
<shauno> http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/1355000/images/_1359371_rainbow_300.jpg
<daftykins> sprucebungle
<diddledan> shauno: that reminds me of the song
<shauno> try to open it in finder?
<shauno> (my gut feeling is going to be stale locks)
<diddledan> I've reboobed since it first appeared
<diddledan> it also loads fine in finder
<daftykins> even the disk image? loads up ok?
<daftykins> can you bring it into disk utility and verify it or something 0o
<diddledan> not a remote share I can't
<daftykins> the file though
<diddledan> a sparsebungle isn't a file
<diddledan> it's a folder
<daftykins> oic
<daftykins> not encountered that before then
<daftykins> yet i've got a client with 10.9 TM backups
<shauno> it's a disk image that's sliced into chunks (usually 10M?)
<diddledan> yeah looks like 8MB
<shauno> it'll appear as a single file in Finder, but not on disk (the same as .app etc do)
<diddledan> ls
<diddledan> oops
<daftykins> $ diddledan
<diddledan> you can right-click and select show package contents tho
<diddledan> or you can use the terminator
<diddledan> double-clicking the sparsebungle opens up as a disk image which I can browse and showing package contents also opens which I can browse
<shauno> they're actually handy for various uses.  like if the underlying filesystem doesn't like huge files
<shauno> or if you're syncing them to somewhere else.  you can just send the chunk that's changed instead of the whole filesystem
<daftykins> you know i nearly dropped Â£380 on 6 x 2TB WD Reds last night
<daftykins> but instead i just ordered 1 x 1TB WD Red to fix my existing array ;x
<daftykins> diddledan: i'm seeing a post on a site saying they fixed that error by renaming their system 0o
<daftykins> actually that's just gonna cause a full backup too isn't it
<diddledan> lol @ http://www.kitguru.net/channel/generaltech/bob/nypd-suffers-huge-twitter-pr-failure/
<shauno> old :p
<maps|wrk> good evening
<shauno> morning
<diddledan> my brother is famous: https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=TXkAHLlbEPQ (he's talking about the sex-aid at 1:33, sounding like farmer giles)
<diddledan> (SFW)
<diddledan> or rather VSFW
<diddledan> very-safe
<maps|wrk> i was about to aslk
<maps|wrk> heard sex and wondered
<shauno> I'm not sure I want to click on farmer gile's sex-aid no matter how safe it is
<diddledan> yeah, I realised I left it somewhat open-ended
<diddledan> he's talking about "FatMax Compound Action Pliers" which to me sounds like a sex-aid
<maps|wrk> a farmer aye
<maps|wrk> il watch
<diddledan> he's done a few. managed to get himself on stanley's tool jury
<diddledan> http://www.stanleytools.co.uk/tooljury/who
<maps|wrk> wheres he from
<diddledan> near me
<diddledan> :-p
<diddledan> just outside basingstoke is where he grew-up - he's now living/working andover area
<diddledan> which isn't that far afield
<diddledan> about 20 miles down the road from amazingstoke
<maps|wrk> oh
<maps|wrk> thats not farmer area
<maps|wrk> lol
<diddledan> no, indeed
<diddledan> which is why I commented on it :-p
<diddledan> speaking of countryfolk, what's the difference between a city fire engine and a country fire engine?
<diddledan> nobody?
<diddledan> well, a city fire engine goes NEENAANEENAANEENAA. while a country one goes ooh arr. ooh arr. ooh arr.
<shauno> I'm trying to order pcbs, and I can't decide on a colour.  this is silly.
<diddledan> shauno: red
<daftykins> +1 for red
<maps|wrk> brb
<diddledan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DgI8Q-lwGkc#t=455
<maps|wrk> LOL diddledan
<maps|wrk> IM FROM near woking
<maps|wrk> btw
<diddledan> hah! http://www.kitguru.net/channel/generaltech/bob/how-does-a-battlestar-survive-a-cylon-nuclear-strike/
<ali1234> http://paste.ubuntu.com/7325972/ <- jquery justified list :)
<maps|wrk> :)
<ali1234> the ability to check innerWidth (which css cannot do) really simplified it a lot
<maps|wrk> what you making
<ali1234> a video player
<diddledan> open in google chrome: http://workshop.chromeexperiments.com/stars/
<diddledan> if you don't feel small after that you're an egotist
<diddledan> or a mormon
<diddledan> or both?
<diddledan> lol @ "Warning: Scientific accuracy is not guaranteed. Please do not use this visualization for interstellar navigation."
<diddledan> http://faildesk.net/2014/04/24/throw-back-thursday-pic/ <-- why did they need a "turbo" button. I mean who didn't always have that turned "on"?
<shauno> kinda makes me sad that we're back to "open this in this browser" again
<diddledan> shauno: yeah, blame google
<diddledan> shauno: it _might_ work in others but it's a "chrome experiment" so I would guess not
<shauno> seems to work fine in Safari
<diddledan> works in firefox, too, by the looks
<popey> diddledan: because games at the time assumed a 4.77MHz clock speed
<popey> and would run too fast if turbo was "on"
<popey> I had one on my Epson pc
<maps|wrk> hahha turbo neat
<popey> which ran at a whopping 8MHz
<maps|wrk> lol
<diddledan> nuts
<diddledan> nucking ones
<diddledan> completely ucking fay uts nay
<diddledan> :-p
<diddledan> swearing by the backdoor!
 * diddledan notes the sign that says "family friendly" or some such
<shauno> -_-
<diddledan> serials? Linux Voice news roundup this month suggests that kernel-devs are considering QR codes for crash reports
#ubuntu-uk 2014-04-25
<popey> thought systemd already did that
<diddledan> this is for kernel panics
<diddledan> http://www.zdnet.com/cisco-microsoft-vmware-and-other-tech-giants-unite-behind-critical-open-source-projects-7000028743/
<diddledan> *yawn*
<diddledan> google has a new easter egg: google for "set a timer for X" where X is either a time, or an offset of time e.g. "30 seconds" or "5 minutes" or "3 hours" or "28 days" etc.
<MooDoo> morning all
<mapps> morning MooDoo
<mapps> any plans for today
<MooDoo> mapps: work then chill for the weekend, gutting the garage which I'm soooo looking forward too :D
<mapps> gutting..taking everything out?
<MooDoo> mapps: yeah clearing the rubbish
<mapps> ah
<mapps> that doesnt sound fun;p
<bashrc_> morning
<dvrr> how to redirect website when server is down
<dvrr> how to redirect all urls to homepage  please guide me
<dvrr> MooDoo:
<MooDoo> dvrr: so server is completely down and you can't see the site/  Can you use web forwarding on the domain to point it somewhere else?
<dvrr> i am  running tomcat server
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<popey> hello bigcalm
<bigcalm> Ahoy popey
<davmor2> Morning all
<MooDoo> hello davmor2 :)
<dvrr>  if i do web forwarding on the domain   if down server  automatically  redirect maintenance page
<popey> MartijnVdS: oi oi
<popey> MartijnVdS: you seeing my telepathy messages?
<theukdave> Hiya, I have a system that's deployed in an Ubuntu (12.04) VM (multiple installations across the world) and we need to update the system to disable the recovery mode on the grub menu.  We have a way for users to send an encrypted package into the VM to perform updates.  I have created such a package to do this update but sometimes when running it during testing, it would completely nerf the grub of a VM, and the VM would only boot to the grub command
<theukdave> line. The package we send in, contains a simple script (http://paste.ubuntu.com/7328354/), which replaces the standard grub file in our VMs (http://paste.ubuntu.com/7328269/) with the new one (http://paste.ubuntu.com/7328274/), there's only 1 line difference between the 2 files, and that's the uncommenting of the GRUB_DISABLE_RECOVERY="true" line.
<theukdave> If anyone has any ideas why this might sometime break the grub config, I'd be really appreciate for your help!
<theukdave> Oh, and the script that gets run, is run as sudo
<MartijnVdS> popey: I saw one, when I installed it
<MartijnVdS> ah there's a new message :)
<DJones> theukdave: Looks like thats not something people have come across before
<theukdave> Djones: :(
<theukdave> *sigh*
<theukdave> Djones: The only thing I can think that's a little odd about what I'm doing, is cat'ing the contents to the grub config, rather than cp'ing or mv'ing the file into place, but I can't see what that'd hurt it ... also weird that MOST of the time it works fine, but then sometimes, it doesn't
<DJones> My only thought it whether the file permissions are still the same after thye update
<theukdave> I think that's why I originally decided to cat the contents in, to be 'sure' of that
<DJones> I'm not even sure whether file permission would make a difference
<theukdave> But anyway, any forums you might suggesting asking this to?
<theukdave> yeah, same.  I'm a dev, not a sys admin, I'm not too familiar with grub in general
<DJones> Heh, as a dev I suspect you'll still have a lot more experience than me (I'm an accountant with an interest in computers)
<DJones> You could try askubuntu or the ubuntuforums
<theukdave> ok cool, cheers
<ali1234> theukdave: why do you need to disable grub recovery?
<ali1234> i'm confused by your problem because it seems circular
<awilkins> Oh excellent. Our new firewall software prevents my laptop making outbound SSH connections unless I'm in the office.
<ali1234> ie you need to disable recovery because when you try to disable recovery it goes to recovery
<awilkins> And accepting incoming RDP connections. And I don't have any control over it.
<theukdave> ali1234: Not quite, I need to disable the recovery boot option, since a user could interrupt the boot process, and gain root access to the whole VM, something they absolutely should not be able to do.  I know that I can manually edit the grub config to uncomment the DISABLE_RECOVERY.. line, then sudo update-grub, reboot, and the security hole is plugged
<ali1234> theukdave: disabling those menu options won't prevent them doing that
<theukdave> but when I try to do this in an automated way, usually it works, but sometimes it doesn't
<ali1234> they can still get a grub shell (in theory anyway)
<theukdave> OK, I'm totally keen to hear about other ways they could get access, but at the moment, this is a glaringly obvious way for the user to get root access, and has been raised as something specific we need to fix
<ali1234> sure, i understand :)
<ali1234> since it's an intermittent problem, could it be because the disk isn't syncing before you restart the VM?
<ali1234> thus sometimes the config gets corrupted
<theukdave> so yeah, usually my script updater thingy works OK, but sometimes it seems to batter grub in such a way that you don't get the grub menu at all, it just falls to the grub cmd line, and I don't know why
<popey> MartijnVdS: www.webupd8.org/2014/04/telegram-unity-webapp-integrates.html
<davmor2> popey: you sending messages via telepathy now?  or did you mean telegram?
<theukdave> I don't programmatically restart the VM as it goes ... I don't think ... The user loads this patch package through a web interface, and then is instructed to shut down and restart the VM afterwards
<ali1234> update-grub can take a LONG time
<theukdave> oh OK ...
<ali1234> interrupting it would probably cause what you're seeing
<theukdave> good to know, I'll check that
<ali1234> to know for sure you'd need to inspect the grub files inside the VM
<popey> davmor2: telegram webapp on the desktop
<MartijnVdS> popey: Unity webapps? Don't you need firefox for that?
<theukdave> also, is there any risk/problem with the way that I'm replacing the file (by cat'ing the contents rather than cp'ing or mv'ing)
<popey> MartijnVdS: not in 14.04 - it uses oxide
<davmor2> <popey> MartijnVdS: you seeing my telepathy messages? this is the line that threw me
<MartijnVdS> popey: because I've only seen the prompts to "add this to unity!" in firefox
<ali1234> theukdave: should be fine
<popey> MartijnVdS: its not one of them
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: nah popey and I have telepathic contact 8-)
<ali1234> theukdave: i would consider using a smarter way, if you only want to set one line
<theukdave> ali1234: sure, like ..?
<ali1234> theukdave: something with sed maybe, that will respect any changes already made to the file
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: I have a telepathy connection with popey, via google and facebook :D
<theukdave> right, yeah
<theukdave> There *should* be no changes, since we ship the VM as is, and (theoretically) no one has access to change anything
<theukdave> but yeah, I could sed it
<ali1234> yeah theoretically nothing ever goes wrong :)
<ali1234> theukdave: so i guess you give the user the VM and don't give them root password, and then you give them signed updates?
<davmor2> ali1234: hahahahahahahahahaha,  let me just pick myself upo off the floor after that one :D
<theukdave> ali1234: basically, yeah
<ali1234> and there's a network kvm that gives the access to the grub menu?
<theukdave> they run it inside vmplayer, so can just clic into the console whilst it's booting
<ali1234> oh ...
<ali1234> well all bets are off them
<popey> yeah
<ali1234> i can just mount the vmdk?
<popey> .. or they could just mount the v...
<ali1234> change any file i want
<popey> yes â»
<ali1234> it's pointless trying to keep the out
<ali1234> i can see why you'd want to hide grub from a UI perspective though
<theukdave> :) indeed
<popey> davmor2: no you don't â»
<theukdave> I've been saying that physical access is the first layer of security, and we just don't have it :(
<diddledan> as the security mantra goes, once physical access is available (by alice to bob's computer) bob's computer is as good as compromised
<ali1234> get into the cloud services business :)
<ali1234> hey diddledan, i decided to switch to less since i'm using bootstrap anyway and i can clean up my html classes :)
<diddledan> ali1234: nice
<davmor2> popey: okay maybe not via facebook
<ali1234> i'll probably have questions for you later :)
<dwatkins> doesn't that mean that the company which hosts my data then has unlimited access to it?
<diddledan> dwatkins: yes
<ali1234> really impressed with this so far though... bootstrap + less makes webdesign fun again
<dwatkins> mind you, in some cases it's encrypted before it's sent
<diddledan> ali1234: less is really cool - sass/scss combined with compass is arguably more feature-full ootb but with less that's mitigates by downloadable "mixins"
<ali1234> bootstrap uses less, so it seemed logical
<diddledan> compass does things like pre-packaged mixins for the various browser-prefixed rules where the standards process hasn't ratified yet
<diddledan> e.g. -moz-border-radius
<diddledan> though border-radius is pretty standard these days
<theukdave> ali1234: As for cloud services, it's not something we can do unfortunately, since this is deployed in places with no connectivity whatsoever
<ali1234> theukdave: you're completely out of luck then
<dwatkins> if you can boot from USB or ISO, you can get root access
<diddledan> or just mount the disk image
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<dwatkins> hiya brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning dwatkins
<dwatkins> theukdave: what part of the VM do you need to secure? e.g. your compiled binaries, data within it etc.?
<theukdave> dwatkins: just the mysql database really
<theukdave> but of course with root access ...
<dwatkins> I suppose even if you encrypt the data in the database, you still have to have the key on the server.
<ali1234> this is the fundamental problem with all drm systems
<penguin42> store the key in  a tpm
<ali1234> it's a VM
<penguin42> hmm, there were some tpm hacks for qemu, not sure if they still work
<ali1234> running on customer's own hardware
<MartijnVdS> PKCS#11 \o/
<penguin42> ali1234: Oh that gets even trickier
<dwatkins> smartcards, perhaps? something like a credit card, where the encryption (i.e. decryption or checking of data) is done in hardware.
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: that's what PKCS#11 helps with :)
<dwatkins> aha I see
<MartijnVdS> there are PKCS#11 tools for smartcards, RFID, TPMs, etc.
<theukdave> Guys, I'm really eager to talk through the various security implication for our VM, and it's an important subject to us.  And any genius ideas for how to increase security are well received.  But as someone pointed out, at the moment any encryption done inside the VM, needs to be undoable inside the VM in order to make the (web) application usable.  And generally speaking the way to get access to the keys/methods needed to reverse any encryption can 
<theukdave> obtained quite easily if the user ends up as root.  So for now, that's the key issue, and the easiest most obvious way that even a fairly non-techie individual can do that, is by spotting the recovery boot option on the grub menu :)
<theukdave> So first off, I'm'a try and get that working, but I'll hang about today, and be back in the future to discuss the rest ... hopefully we can come up with something
<MartijnVdS> theukdave: but if they have access to the boot menu, they can just image the drive and pick it apart at their leisure
<theukdave> and by the end of the year, we're actually looking to ship a brand new VM with the next major revision of the application, so major overhauls can be entertained
<theukdave> MartjinVDS: for sure, although the VM is encrypted, albeit with a password that all end users have ... but at least that would be preventable for a stolen machine
<MartijnVdS> theukdave: so it really is the DRM problem
<MartijnVdS> theukdave: which is unsolveable in the long run
<ali1234> it's solvable in certain well defined circumstances
<ali1234> "view but don't copy" isn't one of them though
<ali1234> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mental_poker <- crazy
<theukdave> Oh, whilst I appreciate this isn't a jobs forum :) it's worth pointing out that if any of you are interested in a few days consultancy to help us look into this (and plan for the next major release), then I'm sure we'd be more than happy to have you onsite for a bit (we're in London)
<foobarry> cooleague says he can't upload files more than 2GB via http upload - is that just a conf setting?
<ali1234> foobarry: there's many config settings that could affect that. 2GB might be a hard limit though
<foobarry> :S in this day & age?
<ali1234> depends on the website
<foobarry> apache
<foobarry> we run the web site
<ali1234> php?
<foobarry> i'm aware of php.ini settings,
<ali1234> php has all kinds of limiters to stop it running wild
<ali1234> many of them could cause the problem (like memory limits etc)
<foobarry> don't think its php
<ali1234> check the server logs :)
<MooDoo> create a phpinfo.php file and check the upload_max_filesize
<foobarry> php aint installed :(
<MartijnVdS> then it's not a PHP limit :)
<foobarry> thanks sherlock :D
<MartijnVdS> http://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.2/mod/core.html#limitrequestbody
<ali1234> ...and 2GB is the hard limit
<MooDoo> foobarry: http://www.cyberciti.biz/faq/apache-limiting-upload-size/
<MooDoo> 2gb is the max
<MartijnVdS> nginx can do it
<foobarry> i wonder if this still applies :(
<MartijnVdS> "httpd is now built with support for files larger than 2GB on modern 32-bit Unix systems. Support for handling >2GB request bodies has also been added."
<MartijnVdS> that's in the Apache 2.2 changelog
<foobarry> so i wonder if its a soft limit now
<diddledan> BBC, Y U NO KNO BOUT TIMEZONES?! according to the beeb the heartbleed bug was introduced by a developer working at 23:00 on new year's eve
<MartijnVdS> FIAL
<diddledan> while I don't doubt that developers work at that time the beeb makes no mention of who and where that was
<diddledan> "The fact that the code change which caused the bug was done by an individual working at 23:00 on a New Year's Eve says a lot. The code simply wasn't reviewed enough and it went undetected for two years," he added."
<diddledan> the previous paragraph: "The details that have emerged about how the vulnerability came about speaks volumes about how little the industry has cared about the software that was securing their websites"
<dwatkins> I wonder if the BSD folks' security checks would have found it.
<ali1234> dwatkins: if you believe the BSD folks it would
<ali1234> google for "exploit mitigation countermeasures"
<ali1234> popey: after i installed ubuntu-sdk yesterday my system is completely messed up :(
<popey> â¹
<ali1234> i now have "accounts-daemon" using 25% cpu constantly, and a 3 second lag when adjusting volume
<ali1234> and my multimedia keys no longer work
<MooDoo> oh dear - http://boycottsystemd.org/
<bigcalm> Oh dear indeed
<diddledan> MooDoo: I agree with a lot of those points
<Azelphur> me too, it seems bad.
<diddledan> I hate the dbus thing, too
<diddledan> network manager is another non-unix-respecting feature
<ali1234> most of those points are rubbish
<Azelphur> they sound like good points assuming they are correct (I haven't source checked) :P
<ali1234> 1. is meh
<Azelphur> ali1234: #1 is the thing I think is most important
<jussi> LOL
<ali1234> 2. isn't a problem because you can make it stream to text logs any query you want, automatically
<Azelphur> xD
<ali1234> 3. is a big big problem
<ali1234> 4. is meh. who doesn't want udev and dbus?
<Azelphur> 2 screams major bloat at me...a web server in an init system...wat?
<ali1234> 5. is meh. core files aren't useful
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: core files are very useful when developing
<ali1234> Azelphur: any program written in ython has a built in webserver too. who cares?
<ali1234> 6. is just 1. again
<Azelphur> ali1234: it does?
<ali1234> 7. well, that's a problem with gnome, not systemd
<ali1234> 8. is a design flaw but not unfixable
<ali1234> 9. is only a problem if you don't use linux
<aquarius> this is the "boycott systemd" thing?
<MartijnVdS> yeah
<ali1234> 10. RTFM SUCKAH
<ali1234> 11. is just point 3. again
<nigelb> I just have one reply: As a user, I mostly don't care as long as it works.
<aquarius> someone should set up "don't boycott systemd" which says "if you want 1979-era SunOS, you know where to find it. Have fun"
<Azelphur> lol
<ali1234> remember that pulseaudio didn't actually get good until lennart stopped working on it
<ali1234> i imagine it will be the same way with systemd
<MartijnVdS> has lennart stopped working on systemd yet?
<aquarius> none of the issues they bring up have reasons which say *why* they're bad, just *that* they're bad. "It does a lot more than just an init system!" but doesn't explain why that's a problem from their point of view.
<ali1234> MartijnVdS: no, it's still just him and a couple of other guys
<ali1234> MartijnVdS: however, when it becomes widely used that will change, as with PA
<ali1234> nd then the problems will all get fixed
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: and Hogwarts is a real place.
<nigelb> I remember the hue and cry when ubuntu started using pulseaudio
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: and the tooth fairy exists
<nigelb> "It's terrible" "horrible piece of software that doesn't work"
<nigelb> Now, it actually works pretty well.
<ali1234> nigelb: at the time, it was
<MartijnVdS> nigelb: the *very first* UDS(-like) thing had a session about "fixing the audio mess". In december 2004
<diddledan> I found this thread interesting : http://lkml.iu.edu//hypermail/linux/kernel/1404.0/01331.html
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: the banning of Kay Sievers
<nigelb> ali1234: I'm sure systemd is not as good as it will be say... 5 years down the line.
<nigelb> MartijnVdS: hah.
<nigelb> It can only be better with adoption
<MartijnVdS> (I think the session's title was "Draining the audio swamp")
<diddledan> MartijnVdS: there's a whole thread related to that post which details chauvinism on the systemd side
<MartijnVdS> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MataroSessionsWorkshops/DrainingTheLinuxAudioSwamp "_\
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: ooh fun :)
<diddledan> in short, they hijacked the "debug" kernel commandline flag and caused the kernel to crash
<diddledan> by sending oodles of systemd debug logs to the kmsg device
<MartijnVdS> because "you wanted debug right?"
<jussi> sigh...
<jussi> I am clearly not geeky enough...
<ali1234> on the plus side systemd has a bunch of stuff that you can't reasonably do any other way
<ali1234> such as cgroups manipulation
<jussi> I CANT SEEM TO SOLVE THE FECKING RUBIKS CUBE!!!!!!!!
<davmor2> jussi: look at the right websites it will teach you the moves you need to learn to do it
<jussi> davmor2: yeah, good point. I was hoping to be smart enough just to "work it out" but clearly not...
<ali1234> i never figured out how to do more than one side
<davmor2> jussi: matrix rules don't apply to rubix cubes it's a glitch in the program
<jussi> doh! :P
<diddledan> I found the easy way to complete the rubix cube - the pieces are coercible to separate from each other allowing you to do it jigsaw style
<nigelb> hah
<diddledan> wtf? apparently there's a "minister for the polar regions"
<diddledan> https://www.gov.uk/government/news/chancellor-puts-uk-at-forefront-of-ocean-research-with-new-polar-science-ship
<MartijnVdS> The Borealis? :P
<shauno> seems hardly surprising?  we can't have 600,000 square miles of 'british antarctic territory' without someone making it their day job
<dwatkins> it looks like they're planning on making the ship out of Lego
<diddledan> didn't he play "Angel" in "buggy the vampire layer"?
<diddledan> borealis, I mean..
<dwatkins> http://brickset.com/sets/316-1/Fire-Fighting-Launch
<shauno> lol, I like having just "science" emblazoned down the side
<shauno> not "research vessel" or anything formal.  just "for science!"
<dwatkins> like "for Gondor!"
<diddledan> for SPARTA!
<dwatkins> for queen and country!
<shauno> although I guess if you label it a research vessel, everyone will assume you're whaling
<diddledan> or spying
<shauno> nah, we use lotus esprits for that :)
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> are those the ones that turn into submarines?
<diddledan> is was that the lambo?
<dwatkins> the Lotus was also a submarine, yeah
<dwatkins> http://www.lotusespritturbo.com/James_Bonds_Lotus_Esprit_S1.htm
<diddledan> I didn't realise they actually had real underwater capability
<diddledan> albeit a secondary vehicle rather than a convertible
<dwatkins> I'm still waiting for my flying car.
<shauno> I have neither a drivers licence nor a pilots licence :(
<dwatkins> If we do ever make cars which can fly, hoever etc. then we'll have a whole new set of safety issues.
<shauno> so I should skip them and just go for my flying car licence?
<dwatkins> I imagine (hope) that would be as hard as doing both licenses, if not harder.
<shauno> why?  flying's easy!
<shauno> it's the whole "hitting the floor on purpose" bit that's messy
<dwatkins> indeed, and not hitting other planes, cars, birds and so on
<ali1234> diddledan: any idea about this? http://paste.ubuntu.com/7329829/
<diddledan> ali1234: I don't believe less does _any_ rewriting of url paths
<diddledan> ali1234: there might be mixins which help though
<ali1234> yes it does, that's what the -ru option is for
<ali1234> those specific paths don't get rewritten because they are escaped
<ali1234> but if you just put the pat normally, it will be rewritten
<diddledan> aah yes, maybe I'm not understanding the issue?
<ali1234> here is a simpler example: http://paste.ubuntu.com/7329858/
<ali1234> .b gets remapped, .a doesn't
<ali1234> so the problem is that if you ~import bootstrap into your wordpress style.css from a subdirectory, then all the paths are wrong
<ali1234> consequently it doesn't work properly
<ali1234> my question is who do i blame for this? bootstrap or less?
<diddledan> hmm, that's a tough one, I kinda think they're both to blame
<ali1234> yeah me too... and guess what? they each blame the other
<diddledan> >.<
<ali1234> https://github.com/twbs/bootstrap/issues/13429
<ali1234> lets see what they say
<SammyMouse> hi
<diddledan> 9 seconds.
<diddledan> 9 whole seconds.
<diddledan> people are so patient
<DJones> Must have learned everything they needed to know in the 9 seconds though
<SammyMouse_> leave
<SammyMouse_> oops
<popey> hello
<MooDoo> hello
<SammyMouse_> hi, how does one switch IRC channels? I am trying to get to the ubuntu Gnome support one...>.>
<popey>  /join #channelname
<bigcalm> * Cannot join #channelname (Channel is invite only).
<bigcalm> :(
 * davmor2 invites bigcalm to get a life and not try and join example channels :P
<bigcalm> Boo
<diddledan> http://www.example.com/
<davmor2> bigcalm: don't click it, NO!!!.......AH NO
<bigcalm> Silly
<dwatkins> I always cringe when people don't use example.com as an example domain.
<dwatkins> What's even worse, is abbreviating domain names, e.g. u.com instead of ubuntu.com
<diddledan> u.c is common as well
<dwatkins> oh dear
<dwatkins> one-letter domains are specifically disallowed; I've seen some domain names abbreviated to two letters, in which case the domain is simply incorrect.
<guestdw> My nautilus preference settings to be ignored by nautilus. can anyone suggest why please?
<daftykins> could you rephrase your question first?
<daftykins> it's not grammatically correct
<guestdw> When I select which columns I want nautilus to display, it seems to ignore my settings
<guestdw> It just carries on doing the same as before I started
<daftykins> you need to then hit something to set it as default then re-run i think
<guestdw> but what? That is the problem. I cannot see a button to save it as default
<daftykins> is this 14.04?
<guestdw> Anyway, it does not even chenge them temporarily in the window I have open
<guestdw> Yes it is 14.04
<daftykins> ok so details view after clicking on files, lets see what it does for me
<daftykins> yeah i'm getting an instant update when i click to add 'Location'
<daftykins> i take it yours is an upgrade install?
<guestdw> I meant that I want to be able to select which columns are displayed in list view - but it ignores my settings
<diddledan> http://www.codedwell.com/images/uploaded/security-fail.jpg
<daftykins> diddledan: >_<
<guestdw> Preferences | List Columns
<guestdw> NO. not an upgrade
<guestdw> A fresh install
<daftykins> totally clean disk or did you keep an existing /home ?
<diddledan> my home is messy
<diddledan> I need to springclean
<guestdw> When the installer gave me the two options I told it do do a fresh install rathe than upgrade - Though I do not recall the exact wording
<guestdw> I don't recognize anything old in home, so I think everything from the previous install is gone
<guestdw> Oldest directory of file curnetly at top leve in home is three days old
<guestdw> leve -> level
<daftykins> guestdw: try creating a second user account to test in
<daftykins> or just hit guest session
<daftykins> i do quite like that feature
<guestdw> OK - that's a good idea (but I can ony try it after I have left this login session and the chat, I suppose)
<daftykins> i think if you click it, it leaves both running
<daftykins> yep
<diddledan> use "switch user" not "logout"
<daftykins> yeah ^ i'm clicking the 'cog' top right here
<daftykins> how is diddledan this fine day?
<diddledan> I'm good
<guestdw> I don't see a switch user option on my desktop
<daftykins> guestdw: click the cog top right then select 'guest session'
<diddledan> busy doing a new commission which is, as per usual, a rushjob
<guestdw> Is there a package that would give me that funcitonality (it sounds useful for many porposes)
<diddledan> I'm actually trying to "do it right" on this one though
<guestdw> There is no cog top right
<daftykins> diddledan: hehehe
<daftykins> guestdw: is this something other than standard 'ubuntu' ?
<guestdw> Not as far as I know. I tried to ask for standard ubuntu during the install
<guestdw> Is there a way to check?
<daftykins> lsb_release -a
<daftykins> ^in a terminal
<diddledan> that doesn't work on my OS X :-p
<diddledan> $ lsb_release -a
<diddledan> -sh: lsb_release: command not found
<guestdw> No LSB modules are available.
<guestdw> Distributor ID:	Ubuntu
<guestdw> Description:	Ubuntu 14.04 LTS
<guestdw> Release:	14.04
<guestdw> Codename:	trusty
<daftykins> hmm, can't be sure with that
<daftykins> guestdw: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b4/Ubuntu_Desktop_12.10.png
<daftykins> you're really not seeing that little cog shaped icon to the right of the clock in the extreme upper-right?
<diddledan> linked-to by popey : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDrrIUujxsw
<dw__> Chat crashed
<diddledan> serials?!
<daftykins> web dev ugh
<daftykins> not even THAT can get me doing some web related stuffs
<dw__> daftykins:   I don't see that cog on my desktop: the one that is there in your png
<daftykins> do you even have the unity sidebar on the left?
<dw__> I have a list that drops down on the left when I select and item headed "Activities"
<daftykins> sounds like gnome shell
<daftykins> ok so what you have isn't stock ubuntu
<dw__> OK - that's useful to know
<daftykins> you could well have downloaded gnome-ubuntu instead
<daftykins> dw__: perhaps guest session will be off your username menu top right instead?
<dw__> No the only option there is "logOut"
<daftykins> ok, i have no idea how to proceed with what you have installed then
<dw__> But I will try your new user idea anyway, after I log out. It sounds a good idea for diagnosis
<daftykins> cool
<daftykins> agreed.
<dw__> daftykins: thanks for your ideas and info anyway
<daftykins> no problem :)
<dw__> I'll say gb now and give nautilus a try with as a new user
<daftykins> i thought i was onto something by finding a config folder in ~/.config/nautilus
<daftykins> but removing that doesn't even reset nautilus to defaults
<daftykins> just how is stuff configured these days 0o
<diddledan> gnome does that whole windows registry mess
<diddledan> they call it dconf though
<daftykins> ah yeah just found that folder
<diddledan> it's the same thing as the windows registry in essence
<diddledan> i.e. an evil homogonised bar steward
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> ok installed dconf-editor
<bashrc> there is a gnome registry?
<diddledan> the problem is unity inherits a lot of that junk
<bashrc> the windows registry always struck me as one of the worst ideas ever.  It's a giant den of obfuscation
<daftykins> perhaps i'm looking for the wrong thing anyway since it's 'Files' now and not Nautilus
<diddledan> :-/
<daftykins> heh, i've not even used ubuntu desktop since pre-unity days
<daftykins> so i genuinely have no idea
<mbs_> does anyone know why my usb keyboard and mouse dont work if i reboot back into windows?
<mbs_> i have to hard reboot to get them back again
<diddledan> microkia is now a thing: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-27163667
<diddledan> in all but name
<daftykins> mbs_: 'hard reboot' vs reboot, what's the distinction here? powering of between?
<daftykins> hey diddledan you'll appreciate this (SFW) - not sure this pig is spoilt at all - https://www.dropbox.com/s/qixkfifemb0si1d/IMG_20140425_155114.jpg
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> they've got pork willies next to it
<diddledan> so I'm not so sure about the SFW status : -p
<daftykins> you're like that little jonny in those joke emails that can turn anything rude
<diddledan> heck yes
<diddledan> :-p
<mbs_> i mean when windows gets to the log in screen none of my usb stuff works even if i unplug and move to another port until i power off and reboot
<dw__> Update on Ubuntu gnome desktop nautilus for anyone interested. I did not try a different user but discovered:
<dw__> 1. There are two different ways of choosing which columns are displayed
<diddledan> what can I say, I come pre verted
<dw__> 2. IF I right-click on the headings of the columuns in nautilus list view, it will change them for just that specific directory
<dw__> 3.If I go to the main PReferences | List Columns menu, it seems to set a default
<dw__> 4. This default is ignored when browsing any directory which has its own values set
<dw__> -That's why my settings using method I number 3 here seemed to me to be ignored: I was only looking in folders that had their own values set which override these
<penguin42> dw__: That kind of makes sense if you have some particular directories that you want to use in a different way
<dw__> I guess so (although I don't have, as it happens)
<dw__> What slightly puzzles me is that I don't recall ever setting the individual directory preferences that seemed to be overriding the global defaults (maybe my memory is worse than I thought?)
<dw__> Or perhaps the mere act of browsing to a directory that has no individual preferences yet set, has the effect of setting its own individual preferences to the current value of the global ones - Perhaps that's it.
<penguin42> I doubt that, but it might be something as simple as a function key or key binding that caused it to change
<dw__> -Maybe
<mbs_> anyone know whats going on?
<daftykins> mbs_: nope, however when powering off we call that a cold reboot as opposed to a warm reboot
<daftykins> so that might help searches
<mbs_> i might reset my bios back to stock defaults and see if that helps
<penguin42> mbs_: Sometimes you get things where at a reboot the BIOS might forget to reset something in the hardware and thus leave it in a state that's not quite right
<mbs_> brb
<MooDoo> howdy all
<diddledan> moo
<popey> yo
<penguin42> hey popey
<popey> i dont think I've left the house for 3 or more days.
<daftykins> popey: O_O
<SuperEngineer> Dear Steam, I think but cannot prove that your peak download speed estimate of 3,416,310,272.0 GB/S might just possibly be a tad inaccurate.
<SuperEngineer> [but here's hoping] ;)
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: Never underestimate the bandwidth of a 747 full of LTO tapes
<SuperEngineer> :)
<diddledan> SuperEngineer: is that a misspelt gigabit per second or a correctly spelt giga BYTE per second?
<penguin42> either way it's a bit on the fast side
<diddledan> yeah, but I was wondering whether it's sillyspeed or meh :-p
<penguin42> looks very silly
<diddledan> becasue that many gigabits per second is so passÃ©
<diddledan> whereas that many gigabytes per second is sweet!
<diddledan> googlefibre probably goes that fast, right?
<diddledan> one internet per second
<diddledan> maybe that should be a value. 1internet, 2internets, 3internets....
<penguin42> libraries of congress/second?
<diddledan> yey for the beeb: "S Korea divers found cabin of bodies" <-- what were they expecting to find in a capsized ship that didn't issue an evacuation alarm?!
<shauno> I guess the other option was "malaysian jumbo"
<shauno> I really shouldn't go to maplins.  I can't remember what I was looking for, but I came out 70e lighter
<diddledan> lmao
<diddledan> teh shiny is strong
<mapps> hello
<SuperEngineer> diddledan: re Steam ... I begin to wonder; "is Steam also from my planet????"
 * SuperEngineer hums X-Files theme
<diddledan> yey for more beeb: "Divers searching a sunken passenger ferry off South Korea found 48 bodies in a single room on the vessel meant to accommodate 38 people, officials say." <-- the vessel could only carry 38 people?
<daftykins> perhaps it was the ship bar, licensed only for 38 to stand
<diddledan> daftykins: re-read
<diddledan> the vessel. the WHOLE vessel.
<diddledan> and nothing but the vessel
<daftykins> ah
<diddledan> daftykins: your pedant gene is weak
<SuperEngineer> diddledan: they are correct! for your meaning - ythey would have to write "a vessel"
<daftykins> nah i'm just not paying enough attention
<diddledan> :-p
<penguin42> a life raft?
<SuperEngineer> symantics... a very useful word... even better when fully understood  :p
<diddledan> and spelt correctly :-p
<diddledan> semantics**
<SuperEngineer> Here's a good one... repeat the following sentance putting the emphasis on a different word each time...
<SuperEngineer> there are as many meanings as there are words in the sentence...
<SuperEngineer> "I did not say he stole thew money"
<SuperEngineer> *the
<diddledan> lol
<SuperEngineer> ...or "Canonical are playing games not releasing code name for next release" [that might work the same :D
<SuperEngineer> nah... doesn't work as well as the the 1st
<daftykins> i'm not sure the next name is all that exciting in the grand scheme ;)
<daftykins> perhaps it should be Undecided Ubuntu
<SuperEngineer> ...or Unknown Unity
<SuperEngineer> Can NOT wait till the "W" release... I've got my suggestion ready to go already!  ;) [..t...f...]
<daftykins> i'm still recovering from saucy, people coming in #ubuntu asking if they can ask a saucy question
<diddledan> yeah, coming from me that would mean something entirely different ;-)
<SuperEngineer> just need to find apreviously unknown animal and name it a theffuk
<diddledan> daftykins: can I ask you a "saucy" question? ;-)
<SuperEngineer> oh oh!
<daftykins> there's not a day goes by that you don't, diddledan
<diddledan> daftykins: do you have a beaker full of water for "afterwards cleanup"?
<diddledan> that was a weird meme
<diddledan> http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/mumsnet_classics/a1875847-Do-you-dunk-your-penis not safe for anything really
<daftykins> >_<
<bigcalm> diddledan: if it's not safe for anything, why did you paste it into here? :)
<mapps> hm wonder what days are good for the aregon tennis in london
<mapps> wanna go to more tennis :)
<daftykins> looking for a sore neck, mapps? :)
<diddledan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Krz-dyD-UQ
<mapps> LOL NOT especially daftykins
<mapps> but tennis is good and ive not actually been to any yet
<ali1234> diddledan: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bbZ1dXQpq0w
<diddledan> http://pastebin.com/qPxR9BRv <-- I wonder if they're trolling or it's a genuine hole
<penguin42> diddledan: Wouldn't be impossible
<diddledan> that's what worries me - I've not finished patching the first generation heartbleed yet
<ali1234> definitely trolling: https://blockchain.info/address/1BKRqnmWNfK5qjhouMaBFHwjHK9ibfrKhx
<ali1234> if it was real they would give a unique payment address to each customer
<ali1234> and they certainly wouldn't give out an address so heavily tainted - it makes it too easy to trace them
<diddledan> "heavily tainted"? I don't understand virtual currency so that term is new to me
<ali1234> every transaction is recorded forever
<ali1234> and uniquely identifiable
<ali1234> which means you can follow the money
<ali1234> ah, i see, this is a coin joiner
<ali1234> so the churn here is actually an attempt to "wash" the coins
<diddledan> uh huh - everything is going to the same account
<diddledan> namely: https://blockchain.info/address/16R14EH4v8A9GPXkAAP8gcMFBA8oxA8nbY
<ali1234> yes, that's the laundry account. then they send it back out, so you don't know which output came from which nput
<ali1234> it's not a great method since likely all the inputs are dodgy
<diddledan> the target account has a lot of coinage: 215,637.634057 BTC
<diddledan> what's that in english money?
<ali1234> that's just how much they processed, not the actual balance
<diddledan> aah yes, I see
<diddledan> final balance is 0
<ali1234> and it's about Â£60 million
<diddledan> yeouch
<diddledan> that's a lot of laundry
<ali1234> yeah, but it's pointless because you;re trading your own coins that you stole for coins someone else stole :)
<ali1234> also that paste is wrong
<ali1234> you only use -DOPENSSL_NO_HEARTBEATS if you can't upgrade to 1.0.1g
<diddledan> good point
<diddledan> also mentioned on the FD mailing list is that it's a compile time option not a variable
<ali1234> right
<penguin42> sigh - can anyone remember how to persuade gimp to really give me a 1 pixel wide brush?
<diddledan> penguin42: use the pencil instead of the brush
<diddledan> it's been a while since I looked at gimp tbh so I may be off-bat
<penguin42> diddledan: Still not giving me 1 pixel
<diddledan> hmm
<diddledan> use photoshop :-p
 * penguin42 has had this sometime before - and there's some obscure option somewhere that means the 'brush' it shows you is not the one you actually get
<penguin42> ahha
<penguin42> https://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20120629221425AAmmr9S
<penguin42> by default the brush has a size of 20 pixels - even for the tiny 3x3 pixel
<diddledan> 5 out of 33 servers left to patch for heartbleed.
<diddledan> nearly there
<DJones> diddledan: Is it not just sudo apt-get update; sudo apt-get upgrade
<diddledan> DJones: not on Gentoo it's not
<DJones> Oops, time for a new server :)
<DJones> Maybe not
<diddledan> a new 33 servers
<diddledan> thing is some of the software on a few of them is at the point where it's been so long since it was maintained that nobody wants to look at bringing it up-to-date (namely a series of java war website servlets)
<DJones> People complain about Ubuntu making Linux too easy, but for some reason, they don't complain when non-ubuntu systems take days/weeks to fix
<DJones> If it works, I guess there's no reason to change
<DJones> But must be frustrating at times like this
<diddledan> aye
<DJones> From a commercial point of view, I'm not sure if Ubuntu would be any better than any other Linux based system
<diddledan> I guess a lot depends on how much you're paying for it
<diddledan> most folk use ubuntu because they don't need to pay a dime
<DJones> Thats probably more personal users though, I suspect business'es would have supprt contracts
<shauno> pi butchery :)  http://cl.ly/image/1C05260n0V0z  (I'm not sure why I'm proud of this)
<ali1234> i wish they had put the composite video onto a header
<bashrc> upgrading the netbook to 14.04
<shauno> yeah, the video bugs me.  it just doesn't seem to be worth the protrusion
<shauno> although I think I would have preferred most of it on headers, instead of the splayed-out-spider effect you get from fighting for edge space
<mapps> so
<mapps> what speed should 4g be eh
<penguin42> just enough faster than 3g to convince you it's better (* at best times, mileage may vary nothing you've been promised might happen)
<mapps> yea mine was 33.21 down 2.92 up
<penguin42> that's not bad going - I know people who can't get anywhere near that on vDSL (infinity)
<penguin42> and the 2.92 isn't anything to sniff at
<penguin42> mapps: How much does that cost you?
<mapps> 55quid a month 5gig 4g/unkimited calls and tax
<mapps> mate my home dsl is rubbish compared to the 4g;p i get 6mbit adsl have done for 6-7years
<mapps> cant get better...yet typically when i moved 3yrs ago old place can now get bt ftc!!
<penguin42> are you allowed to tether that for that price?
<mapps> but ok so 33mbit down on 4g( ee) howcome i get 3mbit on 3g (ee) got 2 sims
<mapps> yea
<penguin42> nice
<mapps> but only 5gig allowance
<penguin42> ah
<penguin42> mapps: But I know people on BT fttc that are getting awful rates
<mapps> any idea re my 3g and 3g??
<mapps> 4g and 3g rather
<mapps> same network..and surely 3g should be better than 4mbit
<penguin42> I don't know what they're supposed to do - can't you force the phone to drop 4g off?
<mapps> Yea you can..just turn 4g off
<mapps> but what i mean is i got 2 sims 1 4g and 13g
<mapps> 1 3g
<shauno> why should 3g be better?
<mapps> better than 4mbit i mean
<mapps> i thought it should be 10-15 range
<shauno> 3g comes in 3.6mbit and 7.2mbit variants, and not many networks picked up 7.2
<mapps> ah
<penguin42> mapps: I guess there may be more contention from other users on 3g (although maybe not at this time of night)
<mapps> yea thats true
<mapps> when ive been at the gym at say 4am ive managed around 15mbit iirc
 * penguin42 won't ask why you've gone to the gym at 4am
<shauno> what else are you meant to do when tesco's full of stoners :/
<penguin42> run?
<penguin42> or better, sleep
<shauno> o_O  what is this "sleep" ?
<penguin42> it's what happens if you didn't have enough coffee
<shauno> ahh.  I have instant coffee for such emergencies
<shauno> not ideal, but much easier to snort than beans
<penguin42> yes, snorting beans is not good for breathing
<shauno> and snorting instant isn't good for wallpaper  (long story)
<penguin42>  'But Dr I always get these terrible migrains after coffee....'
<shauno> almost on-topic for a sec .. if I connect to wifi by sticking wpa-ssid & wpa-psk straight into /etc/network/interfaces, is there a sensible way to add credentials for a second network?
<penguin42> can I ask the obvious question; why not do it via nm ?
<shauno> because they're all headless
<penguin42> shauno: nmcli !
<shauno> heh
<shauno> I might have to look into that, but I still don't trust nm.  I'm used to these things being a whole lot more transparent
<penguin42> right, but with wifi being so complex anyway
<shauno> well it's kinda straight-forward as long as I stay at home :/
<penguin42> there is a NetworkManager-tui around, not sure if there is an ubuntu package
<shauno> seems to be a whole load of new things I don't quite understand.  eg, I still have no idea what dbus is, or why
<penguin42> yeh I don't really get the details of that stuff
#ubuntu-uk 2014-04-26
<shauno> hm, interesting.  apple have a replacement program for my dodgy power button
<diddledan> what about your various other "issues"?
<diddledan> at last count you had no dvd drive in the dvd slot?
<shauno> that's intentional :)
<shauno> (also this is for my phone, so they shouldn't notice my dvd drive)
<diddledan> aah
<shauno> the power button on my phone takes some considerable mashing to register a press
<diddledan> www.youtube.com/watch?v=FeZftK2kO6Uâ
<shauno> it never used to, but over the last few months it's gone from noticable to very annoying
<mapps> anyone still around
<shauno> "nobody here but us chickens" I believe it goes
<mapps> :)
<mapps> you familiar with appache?
<shauno> sort of.  it's a love-hate relationship, but I can give it a shot
<mapps> heh
<mapps> well
<mapps> got apache running fine..and using mod_userdir so ip/~user etc
<mapps> im trying to enable .htaccess files in the users public_html dir
<mapps> but im not quite sure how ..ive got the httpd.conf file (main conf) in /usr/local/apache/conf and then httpd-userdir.conf in conf/extras
<shauno> I think it's gonna be a case of sticking AllowOverride somewhere awkward, but I don't user userdits, so I'm not sure how/where
<mapps> yea i put AllowOverride AuthConfig in httpd-userdir.conf because i thought it made sense based on what was in there ..il show you
<mapps> http://paste.ubuntu.com/7334399/
<mapps> so i thought as the Directory directive for the public_html is there..it should go there?
<shauno> that's the first place I'd try, yeah
<mapps> yea
<mapps> because that already had the directive for umm the /home/*/public_html
<mapps> before i added the AllowOverride
<mapps> so i dont get it:(
<mapps> you still around shauno?
<nigelb> hi
<mapps> hey nigelbsup
<mapps> :)
<nigelb> saturday :)
<nigelb> and I'm working :(
<mapps> :(
<mapps> i just did time on u;p thought you were ahead of uk time
<nigelb> I am.
<nigelb> It's 5 to 10.
<mapps> oh
<mapps> you from the uk originally?
<mapps> raining here=[
<nigelb> nah
<nigelb> though, I do have a very british name and visit uk often.
<shauno> sorry mapps, had to take a nap before my shift started :)
<mapps> hah nice
<mapps> how much sleep u get
<shauno> heh, about 45 minutes :/
<shauno> I am not a clever man
<mapps> woah do u work from home?
<mapps> i couldnt work in an office with so little sleep
<shauno> nah.  in here at 6am.  bright and early :/
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<robotninja> 'ning
<dwatkins> sup?
<bigcalm> Hunger
<bigcalm> I might have to actually have some breakfast
<bigcalm> Strange for me to want such
<popey> moo
<bigcalm> Oink
 * bigcalm ponders a trip to subway
<dwatkins> I'd go to Subway, but it's across the road, so I'm in the cafe under my flat instead
<bigcalm> Does your home's wifi reach down to the cafe?
<shauno> does their coffee machine reach to the flat?
<brobostigon> good morning boys and girls.
<gebbione_> hi all, something weird is stopping my two monitors to display correctly, the driver now forced mirror view and if i try to set it stretch the display to both mirrors it wont let me
<gebbione_> required virtual size does not fit available size: requested=(3840, 1080), minimum=(320, 200), maximum=(1920, 1920)
<gebbione_> anyone
<kbingham> http://i.imgur.com/NbB7qtK.png - I've updated from ubuntu 13.10 - to 14.04 - but my system details still show 13.10 ... do i need to do anything to finalise the install ?
<MartijnVdS> kbingham: have you restarted the machine? Did the upgrade succeed?
<kbingham> yes and yes - the update was last week
<popey> kbingham: how did you upgrade?
<kbingham> popey: It was last week - but I'm pretty sure it was sudo apt-get dist-upgrade
<kbingham> popey: I'm assuming something didn't complete/update - everything seems to be working fine - just noticed that the system detail still says 13.10 ... seemed odd :)
<MartijnVdS> kbingham: "dist-upgrade" has a confusing name
<MartijnVdS> it doesn't upgrade the distribution :)
<MartijnVdS> kbingham: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TrustyTahr/ReleaseNotes#Upgrading_from_Ubuntu_13.10
<kbingham> MartijnVdS: no looking back at the page I followed it was do-release-upgrade :)
<brobostigon> can i have a domain point at an apache virtualhost ?
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: if you have a domain, and an IP, yes.
<kbingham> re-running it now says "no new release found"
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: you can just point a hostname at that IP (A record) or another host pointing to that IP (CNAME)
<MartijnVdS> kbingham: what does lsb_release -a say?
<kbingham> lsb_release -a
<kbingham> No LSB modules are available.
<kbingham> Distributor ID: Ubuntu
<kbingham> Description:    Ubuntu 14.04 LTS
<kbingham> Release:        14.04
<kbingham> Codename:       trusty
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: thats what i have, but it seems to show me apaches root rather than the virtualhost
<kbingham> MartijnVdS: http://i.imgur.com/NbB7qtK.png
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: do you have a "NameVirtualHost" directive for the IP in question?
<MartijnVdS> kbingham: uhh..
<MartijnVdS> wow :)
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: in the virtualhost config?
<kbingham> MartijnVdS: exactly - hence my confusion :)
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: it needs to be outside the VirtualHost blocks, in "global" config
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: apache's global config?
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: are you running trusty or something earlier?
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: debian testing.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: Apache 2.4?
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: 2.4.9
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: in that case, having the proper <VirtualHost *:80> (or your.ip.here:80) blocks should be enough
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: as long as they include a "ServerName" (and possibly ServerAlias) directive
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: ok, let me check it again.
<popey> kbingham: sudo apt-get install ubuntu-desktop^
<popey> see if anything new comes down the pipe (the caret is important)
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: https://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.4/vhosts/name-based.html
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: http://pastebin.com/q9EqEDiB
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: whcih file is that?
<brobostigon> welltravelledbear.co.uk under /etc/apache2/sites-available
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: Can you rename it to "welltravelledbear.co.uk.conf", and then run "a2ensite welltravelledbear.co.uk" ?
<MartijnVdS> (also, check /etc/apache2/sites-enabled for a dangling symlink to the old location)
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: yep, one minute.
<brobostigon> wooop,
<shauno> curious, has that changed?  (I use the same layout, site-available/sitename not .conf)
 * brobostigon gets MartijnVdS a few beer. :)
<kbingham> popey: the ^ on apt-get is new to me ... what does that do? force a recheck of all dependancies?
<MartijnVdS> shauno: I think 2.4 only includes files if they're named .conf
<MartijnVdS> shauno: but I'm not sure
<kbingham> popey: doesn't seem to be installing anything much related though ...
<kbingham> The following packages will be REMOVED
<kbingham>   oxideqt-codecs-extra
<kbingham> The following NEW packages will be installed
<kbingham>   oxideqt-codecs
<popey> kbingham: hmm, interesting
<popey> kbingham: looks like you have bug 1312011
<lubotu3> bug 1312011 in unity-control-center (Ubuntu) "lsb_release -a reports a different version than that listed on the details window" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1312011
<popey> kbingham: you probably want to click the "Does this affect you" to confirm the bug
<kbingham> popey: good find ... I'll post on there .. .cheers
<popey> np
<d3ngar> Hello there
<robotninja> hi
<d3ngar> I was wondering if there is a way to upgrade from 12.04 to 14.04?
<d3ngar> do-release-upgrade tells me that there is no new version available, however I can see 14.04 is released
<penguin42> d3ngar: It tends to wait until 14.04.1 is out until it offers it you I think
<d3ngar> mmm
<d3ngar> When would that be, do you think?
<d3ngar> And is there a way to force it?
<penguin42> not sure, I'm fairly sure you can change the options to let it do it for you, I think they just like to wait until it's been tested a bit more before moving LTSs over
<d3ngar> Okay
<d3ngar> Thanks for the info!
<DJones> directhex: Just noticed somebody commenting on a ppa wit your name on it in #ubuntu 404'ing, I suspect user error rather than a ppa fault though
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 404 in Launchpad itself "PyGettextPO is not able to handle Unicode strings" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/404
<DJones> lubotu3: Hush, nobody asked you
<lubotu3> DJones: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<DJones> Point proved
<DJones> 14:51 < Balls> W: Failed to fetch http://ppa.launchpad.net/directhex/ppa/ubuntu/dists/saucy/main/binary-amd64/Packages  404   Not Found
<directhex> that's badgerports, which has never had packages for saucy
<directhex> nor supported using via launchpad rather than my mirror
<foobarry> my page up key is broke, how can i map it to another key?
<penguin42> foobarry: xmodmap
<foobarry> e.g. alt-page down
<foobarry> i found that page down = 112
<foobarry> page up = 112
<foobarry> page down = 117
<foobarry> but i want alt+page down to perform a page up
<penguin42> right so that's a modifier
<penguin42> foobarry: if you do xmodmap you'll see that mod1 is probably Alt ?
<foobarry> do you mean xev
<foobarry> mod1        Alt_L (0x40),  Meta_L (0xcd)
<penguin42> foobarry: I can't quite remember the syntax, but if you look at the output of xmodmap -pk I think you can see each key has multiple codes it can produce and that depends on the combination of modifiers
<penguin42> no, I don't mean xev - but that shows stuff interacitvely as you press stuff
<penguin42> foobarry: What I'm not sure of is if you were to bind alt-pgdown to produce pageup whether things would see it as alt-pageup
<foobarry> http://askubuntu.com/questions/250791/how-to-bind-altarrows-to-pageup-pagedown
<foobarry> seems helpful
<foobarry> not xmodmap but xbindkeys
<penguin42> still thinks it's xmodmap you want
<foobarry> i dont know how to do combos in modmap
<penguin42> hmm, yeh I think my question of alt comes in here - I can see how to do it with shift but not with alt
<kbingham> popey: ping - are you still online?
<kbingham> popey: I found the root of my issue - unity-control-centre reports ubuntu 14.04, gnome-control-center reports 13.10 still .... I've updated the bug #1312011 anyway. Its clear that the other guy was also using Gnome-shell from his screenshot.
<lubotu3> bug 1312011 in unity-control-center (Ubuntu) "lsb_release -a reports a different version than that listed on the details window" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1312011
<popey> kbingham: interesting
<foobarry> penguin42: how would you do it with shift pls?
<foobarry> getting confused by modmap
<foobarry> i'll take anything atm
<penguin42> foobarry: So if I understand correctly each entry of xmodmap says for 'this keycode   here is the thing we generate by itself, then the thing we send if it's with shift, then two other cases'
<MartijnVdS> Isn't xmodmap dead, and replaced by xkb definitions?
<foobarry> i'm on 12.04
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: Please, I never kept up with it
<MartijnVdS> xmodmap was supposed to be dead in 8.04 or 10.04 ;)
<foobarry> what do i enter for xkb?
<foobarry> http://askubuntu.com/questions/24916/how-do-i-remap-certain-keys
<foobarry> 124 upvotes says xmodmap is still the way :S
<foobarry> got iT!
<foobarry> xmodmap -e 'keycode 117=Alt_L Prior'
<foobarry> i was doing it back to front
<penguin42> really? Heck oh I didn't know it would work that way
<foobarry> trying 112 alt_l next
<penguin42> yeh I thought it was that direction as well :-)
<foobarry> woops
<foobarry> maybe need to clear my config now
<penguin42> foobarry: You can create a .xmodmaprc to get it loaded during login I think
<penguin42> foobarry: But have you considered a new keyboard :-)
<foobarry> laptop
<penguin42> ah
<foobarry> hmm . seems like its not the fix
<MooDoo> howdy all
<penguin42> foobarry: I'm thinking something like     keycode 117 = Next Prior Next
<mapps> phew
<mapps> walked about 7miles
<mapps> 3.4 there 3.4 back it says
<penguin42> good going, I did about 5 earlier according to g.e
<mapps> pretty boring walk along canal to the stadium
<mapps> bt at least it didnt rain:D rained when i got there
<penguin42> it was really nice when I went for my walk - rained when I got back - even better
<mapps> yea it was nice when i left the house..so nice i considered wearing shorts
<mapps> then err yea rained during the game,and a bit on way back and got kinda cold;ish
<mapps> :(
<mapps> luckily mmy seat was under the cover bit
<penguin42> ah, what type of stadium was this?
<mapps> football
<mapps> funny how quick it changes..nice nice nice..pouring down with rain
<mapps> :D
<zleap> hello
<MartijnVdS> \o
<zleap> how are you
 * zleap is looking forward to monday, taking some 1404 cds to the school i am helping at
<zleap> hi
<MartijnVdS> 1404 CDs?
<MartijnVdS> that's a lot
<zleap> well dvds
<MartijnVdS> still a lot
<zleap> i made a few the other day and put nice printed labels on them
<zleap> no a few cd's of 14.04 ubuntu
<zleap> not 1404, i on;y have a pack of 50 dvds
<MartijnVdS> oh :)
<diddledan> MartijnVdS: I came to the same conclusion
<zleap> sorry
<MartijnVdS> nah I'm thick :P
<diddledan> MartijnVdS: thanks for that compliment :-p
<zleap> it is possible to write a shell script to store package names in a list then have apt install them
<diddledan> MartijnVdS: if you're thick for assuming 1404 was a number then by association I must be too
<MartijnVdS> zleap: you want to clone a system's installed packages? :)
<zleap> if we install 14.04 on 20 computers its going to be a pain doing lots of apt get install on each
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: thick by association? Hmm :)
<MartijnVdS> zleap: that's what chef was invented for.. but that might be a lot to learn in a day :)
<MartijnVdS> zleap: or puppet
<MartijnVdS> zleap: or ansible
<zleap> MartijnVdS, well we can run a script that has, apt-get install package x
<zleap> for each one, then just run that on each
<MartijnVdS> zleap: ansible is awesome!
<zleap> ok
<MartijnVdS> http://www.ansible.com/home
<zleap> thanks
<zleap> see what happens monday,  not sure what the plan for the computer group is yet
<zleap> i need to work out exactly what extra stuff to install,  I am guessing at the very least,  geany, idle,idle3 python, python3,  ruby, kidsruby scratch
<zleap> so put those names in a script and then put the script on git,  have ech Pc git clone the git archive (we need to do that anyway) and within that there are scripts to do stuff
<MartijnVdS> zleap: You should really look at the ansible tutorial :)
<zleap> ok
<zleap> will do
<brobostigon> why would www.dns.co.uk result in a different ip compared to dns.co.uk ?
<shauno> why not?
<brobostigon> exactly, when i ping both i get different results.
<penguin42> brobostigon: because you can put an A record on dns.co.uk (I think?) and you need a separate one for www so there's nothing that forces them to be the same
<shauno> you don't even need an A record for the domain.  eg, check nasa.gov
<brobostigon> penguin42: i did that, i created a cname to point to the previous without the www.
<brobostigon> i mean, one with www, thats points to a A record.
<brobostigon> cname*
<penguin42> shauno: How does that work then?
<diddledan> you own dns.co.uk?
<brobostigon> i used that as an example diddledan, i dont no.
<penguin42> how bizarre, all 3 of nasa.gov's DNS servers are on the same subnet
<shauno> penguin42: it doesn't :)  if you stick nasa.gov in a browser, you'll end up on www. just because the browser goes wandering grasping at straws
<diddledan> penguin42: maybe they're anycast
<MartijnVdS> shauno: nah, Chrome stopped doing that and just warns you
<penguin42> shauno: Ah ok
<penguin42> diddledan: How does that work then?
<shauno> they're my favourite annoying example.  they have NS & MX records, but no A/AAAA
<brobostigon> ok, how do i think about this, it has a www cname record pointing at it, what do i look at next.?
<diddledan> I don't understand anycast, but at a high level it doesn't match a single machine instead maps to a regional machine
<diddledan> kinda like how CDNs work
<shauno> anycast is advertising different routes to different networks.  the routes don't all end up at the same place - but they do end up at machines that answer to that address
<diddledan> thanks shauno
<shauno> eg, google's dns.  if you traceroute them you'll probably end up in london.  the rest of the planet doesn't
<diddledan> I guess it's abusing the global routing tables instead of behaving as originally designed
<diddledan> intended**
<penguin42> interesting - and yes google's ns's also all appear on the same subnet
<shauno> it's not that abusive.  it's quite logical that if you're linked to two ISPs, you advertise a different route to each ISP - so each arrives by the most direct route
<shauno> now if you split your site into two, each identical to each other, so one ISP goes to each ... why change that route?  they'll still get the intended results
<diddledan> traceroute to ns1.nasa.gov appears to be blackholing after 12 hops at washington for me
<diddledan> I guess they're unrespinsive to ICMP?
<shauno> diddledan: leave the door off the chain, it'll make less mess when they come for you :)
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> I should probably leave it ajar so they don't have to use the "key"
<zleap> lol
<shauno> I'm not sure what's worse.  that someone decided to embed a .sid (c64-style) in a webpage.  or that safari figured out what to do with it
<penguin42> you got an emulator installed?
<shauno> I have a 'quicklook' plugin for them.  I had no idea the browser would borrow them
<penguin42> I guess the plugin just registered the mimetype or whatever the equivalent is
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/d9fci38ft55etyi/IMG_20140426_221042.jpg
<daftykins> click if you dare
<diddledan> http://www.iflscience.com/plants-and-animals/birds-adapting-chernobyls-radiation
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RECuQaaGGfA
<popey> mmm brownies
<diddledan> Hank and John Green have done a lot to spearhead geekiosity among youtube kids
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: yes! and it's awesome :)
<zleap> MartijnVdS, there are lots of geeky kids out there, its great,  shame there are so few grown ups who can or are willing to see the potential in helping them,
<daftykins> it's a big ask
<zleap> yeah
<zleap> well good news is we have a code club in Torbay
<daftykins> :)
<zleap> as well as the coding, hardware group i am helping wth
<zleap> with
<zleap> lego mindstorms with brick PI
<zleap> among other things such as installing ubuntu :)
<daftykins> install all the things!
<zleap> well we are doing all sorts of stuff, so we have install ubuntu on 2 computers
<zleap> which on monday I can see it being me running update as its 13.10 so may as well update
<diddledan> I bought a 5.25inch floppy drive the other day
<diddledan> I'm proud
<zleap> yay
<zleap> what you gonna use that for
<diddledan> reading floppies
<diddledan> :-p
<penguin42> diddledan: full or half?
<diddledan> I want to go through all my old disks backing them up to more accessible storage
<diddledan> penguin42: 360KB
<zleap> i remember when my friend fell off his chair, i showed him my spectrum +D drive full 720 k, he was using 100k 5 1/4 " floppies
<zleap> or nearly did
<zleap> 16 speccy games om 1 disk or 15 if you wanted a menu thing to load them
 * penguin42 has quite a range of drives, including one that's pretty odd (100tpi rather than 96tpi)
<zleap> tpi
<zleap> something per inch I suspect
<penguin42> tracks
<mapps> good evening all
<daftykins> what-o
<mapps> ok i got a question
<mapps> hopefully one of you fine folks..and daftykins may be able to help
<mapps> ;)
<mapps> quick qestion - im using a .htaccess file to control access to a dir located in /userdir/private so http://ip/~mark/private - well when i go to /~mark the private dir isnt shown? but when i remove the .htaccess it is any ideas?
<daftykins> is that cause i'm a super fine folk?
<mapps> yea
<mapps> :P
<daftykins> ah i've never used a .htaccess
<mapps> ah
<mapps> well
<mapps> they just contain the directives you can have in the .conf basically
<daftykins> all i've done is disable indexes on mine
<mapps> hmm
<mapps> whats that mean no dir listing?
<daftykins> yeah
<mapps> -Indexes?
<mapps> yea
<mapps> well
<daftykins> can still get files if you know their names though
<mapps> i cant see how to stop a specific dir being listed
<mapps> so i could work back
<mapps> heh
<mapps> like go to
<mapps> https://frogs.zapto.org/~mark/
<mapps> and you dont see private dir right?
<mapps> but remove the .htaccess and you do..argh!
<mapps> help!
<MooDoo> what you broke mapps
<mapps> i dont know..did you read the above or need me to explain again?:)
<mapps> :(
<MooDoo> I'll have a look at the longs
<MooDoo> logs
<mapps> ah ok only 2mins ago;)
<MooDoo> so you go to https://frogs.zapto.org/~mark/ and you can't see the private folder, when you remove .htaccess you do?
<mapps> yep
<mapps> i can show you if you want
<MooDoo> can you pastebin the .htaccess?
<mapps> atm the .htaccess is there
<mapps> yep sec
<mapps> http://paste.ubuntu.com/7340864/
<mapps> v basic
<MooDoo> that's what in the mark folder or the vault folder
<mapps> thats in the .htaccess in /~mark/private
<mapps> the userfile is stored in vault..away from the web for security
<mapps> web dirs rather
<MooDoo> ok and you're wondering why there is no link to private in the mark folderlisting on the site?
<mapps> yea
<mapps> am i doing something wrong
<mapps> shouldnt it be there then ask for login/pass
<MooDoo> hmmmmm
<MooDoo> yeah it should
<mapps> wanna see the conf directive for userdir?
<mapps> its small as its in a sep config file
<mapps> conf/extras/httpd-userdir.conf
<MooDoo> I'm wondering what the permissions of the private folder are?
<MooDoo> or if there is a .htaccess file in the mark folder itself with something like indexignore in it
<mapps> na no other .htaccess files so the ~mark dir (which is mod_userdir) is managed by the .conf
<mapps> il show you
<MooDoo> hmmm strange
<mapps> http://paste.ubuntu.com/7340907/
<MooDoo> yeah that is bizarre
<mapps> you cant see anything wrong can you?
<MooDoo> no I can't
<MooDoo> what's the permission of the private folder?
<mapps> see refresh now and youll see the dir
<mapps> https://frogs.zapto.org/~mark/
<mapps> private listed
<mapps> just mv .htaccess to .htaccesb temp
<MooDoo> ah yes thought you'd fixed it lol
<mapps> but minute i put it back ..its gone
<mapps> put it back and..boom gone
<MooDoo> looking at google there are a few pages where people say apache is hiding htpasswd folders
<mapps> when i google for it its comes up with basically stopping files being listed in dirs and stuff..but this is like 1 DIR thats not listed when a htaccess is present as you can see there's all the rest
<mapps> oh really
<mapps> what did you google i must be useless
<mapps> i only found stuff about hidinf files from listings :|
<MooDoo> add a .htaccess to the mark folder with this in it IndexOptions ShowForbidden
<MooDoo> http://serverfault.com/questions/367809/htaccess-in-a-directory-makes-it-disappear-from-its-parents-listing
<mapps> wait
<mapps> couldnt i just add that to the httpd-userdir.conf?
<mapps> as the htaccess just contains diectives normally for the conf files iirc
<MooDoo> no ides, just found that webpage, thought it might help :D
<MooDoo> other than that, not got a bloomin clue :d
<mapps> oke lets see
<mapps> IndexOptions +ShowForbidden yea?
<mapps> you were right
<MooDoo> not sure about + but you can give that a try.
<MooDoo> doesn't mention the plus on the website, but that was 2012 so no idea what's changed in apache since then
<mapps> https://frogs.zapto.org/~mark/
<mapps> :D
<MooDoo> yup I can see it
<mapps> works
<mapps> :)
<MooDoo> yup :D  nice one
<MooDoo> and on that note, time for bed :D  nn
<mapps> cya mate
#ubuntu-uk 2014-04-27
<hallwaxer> hi there, i have an issue with connecting to a location on my network.  I enter the ip - smb://198.168.1.xx (obviously, I don't enter xx), and i'm getting a blank folder.  Interestingly, it worked only 20 minutes ago.  Any ideas/suggestions?
<daftykins> 12 whole minutes
 * Monotoko pokes the room to see who's awake
<penguin42> ouch!
<Monotoko> I knew there'd be one, my sleeping pattern always shifts to night when I've not been working a while :(
 * penguin42 is in weekend mode
<Monotoko> I've been in weekend mode for two weeks now - just doing some late night coding and wondering why Stack Overflow's code doesn't work
<penguin42> it's a bit random whether you hit a good answer or not
<Monotoko> Yeah... can't really see why it shouldn't work, but I'm trying to get current with PHP, the stuff I used to do was all procedural
<Monotoko> and I do feel sorry for anyone maintaining it
<penguin42> oh, I've never done PHP
<Monotoko> 'eh... trying to get back into programming, don't much like the sysadmin world anymore >.<
<penguin42> ah, call yourself a devop then :-)
<Monotoko> I don't much like that either :P
<shauno> finally finished Voyager last night.  now I have no idea what I'm meant to do at work all day
<mapps> iyou excited for 5th may?
<shauno> wossat?
<mapps> o m g
<mapps> 24 series 9:)
<shauno> oh.  never got into that
<mapps> woah
<mapps> 24 is ace
<bashrc> morning
<mapps> morning bashrc
<ali1234> argh my computer is totally messed up and it's all popey's fault
<shauno> have you tried turning him off & back on?
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<Azelphur> This seriously makes me want to stab a debian package maintainer. https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/3832397/screenshots/2014/Apr/2014-04-27-173243_2560x1418_scrot.png
<shauno> nice
<popey> hah
<Azelphur> especially since XBMC has the capability to display a notification on first run >.<
<Azelphur> so they could have just done that, instead of butchering the theme and making it forever ugly.
<Azelphur> looks like the XBMC developers aren't that happy with the changes they've made, either http://forum.xbmc.org/showthread.php?tid=181126&pid=1581291#pid1581291
<daftykins> debian have ruined XBMC in general from what i've heard
<Azelphur> sounds like a hoot
<daftykins> mainly it's that they said no to the whole inclusion of a hardcoded ffmpeg that XBMC relies on though, yeah
<mapps> argh stupid windows updates made my laptop turn off
<mapps> :(
<brobostigon> :(
<daftykins> d'aww
<daftykins> you should do them ;)
<daftykins> or stop the service!
<mapps> ya
<diddledan> oh dear: http://www.nerdist.com/2014/04/let-rory-go-the-ballad-of-arthur-darvill-sung-by-arthur-darvill/
<DJones> mapps: sudo apt-get remove windows :)
 * diddledan double-clicks "instdows.exe"
<diddledan> see what I did there with the 8.3ism :-p
<diddledan> so Windows finally got filenames with spaces and more than 8.3 characters in 1995. at that time the "Program Files" directory was invented. and yet software is still being created that tries to open c:\program leading to various fun exploits by placing an executable called program.exe at c:\
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: and the name "micros~1"
<diddledan> the ~1 filenames are evil
<daftykins> dir /x
<diddledan> ~2 ~3 if there's more than one
<daftykins> :)
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/uger97w09xw2z59/raid.png
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/7zmkub96r1rh6rz/raid2.png
<daftykins> she's dead, Jim
<MartijnVdS> and it's the bigger disk too
<diddledan> I wonder what happens if you have more than 9999999 files with similar first few characters longer than 8 thereof
<daftykins> yep, got sent a 2TB in replacement for a 1TB in an RMA many moons ago :)
<daftykins> 3 of those have been spinning for 6 years
<penguin42> daftykins: Shhh don't say that, they can hear you
<daftykins> hehe
<diddledan> daftykins: is it rebuilding or is the 2TB dead already?
<daftykins> definitely dead sir
<diddledan> oh bugger
<daftykins> just got a dispatch email from amazon UK for my 1TB WD Red
<diddledan> \o/
<daftykins> Â£42.49
<daftykins> that was after i stopped myself for clicking 'confirm' on 6 x 2TB WD Reds
<daftykins> s/for/from/
<diddledan> lol
<daftykins> 12 port controller y'see, i planned ahead ;)
<daftykins> last time i had 8 disks on an 8 port, i had to buy a new controller to cope XD
<penguin42> I love living in a major city where I can get pretty much any PC component within a couple of hours
<mapps> nice
<mapps> daftykins why u go for 1tb and not the 2tbs
<daftykins> penguin42: from a local shop?
<diddledan> that controller must have been not-cheap
<penguin42> daftykins: localish
<daftykins> mapps: the array is of 1TB disks, to get a larger disk would just waste space. e.g. that 2TB that's dead, only half has ever been used
<diddledan> was it a greenie?>
<penguin42> daftykins: I can get to Scan in about 1.5 hours on public transport, Microdirect in about an hour
<daftykins> all these are expensive WD Re's, the RAID edition ones
<mapps> aha
<mapps> whats LSI?
<penguin42> RAID controller vendor
<daftykins> the company that bought 3ware :)
<daftykins> they make SATA HBA's (host bus adapters)
<mapps> oh
<mapps> so its related to the raid controller
<daftykins> yeah LSI bought 3ware a few years back
<mapps> ah
<penguin42> daftykins: I live just on the northern outskirts of Manchester
<daftykins> penguin42: oh that's neat :) local retail would be terrible here
<daftykins> probably negate the VAT saving
<robotninja> ashamedly I've never looked what's local. Too easy to have a box turn up at the office tomorrow with new shiny in it
<mapps> where you live
<mapps> i wish i could order to where i work
<mapps> would be handy..no more missed deliveries
<penguin42> robotninja: Useful when something goes *pop*
<robotninja> Swindon, so less likely to have decent retailers than in a city
<daftykins> is Swindon the one that's famous solely for having a roundabout of roundabouts? :)
<diddledan> bingo
<daftykins> \o/
<daftykins> dafty learns 2 England
<diddledan> the "magic roundabout"
 * penguin42 has only been to Basingstoke that's more of a distributed set of roundabouts
<diddledan> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_Roundabout_(Swindon)
<robotninja> thankfully the postroom guys at my office are very understanding about personal deliveries... and they get a decent whip-round at Christmas
<daftykins> :D
 * penguin42 works at home now, not a problem
<daftykins> nice :)
<daftykins> penguin42: are you a kind of freelance software dev then? or tied to a company but work from home?
<penguin42> daftykins: A normal company employee but work from home
<daftykins> :)
<diddledan> I think I need a new mouse
<diddledan> mine wont scroll-up very often
<daftykins> :(
<daftykins> that's the kind of infuriating fail
<penguin42> maybe it prefers down?
<penguin42> like the lift in hhgttg
<diddledan> do you ever get a pain in the diodes down your left-hand side?
<penguin42> frequently
<diddledan> me too
<diddledan> I need to study more quoteworthy quotes from hhgttg
<diddledan> pretty much every other sentence is worthy of quoting though
<DJones> daftykins: Roundabouts on roundabouts....sounds like Warringtonn
<diddledan> I don't think I've got enough brain power for that many. despite my brain being the size of a planet
<diddledan> which leads me onto another point: why didn't the white mice ask marvin for the question?
<penguin42> diddledan: There are so many great bits in it; I've only ever heard the radio series (never had the patience for the book) - and I only heard the episode with the lift many years after getting to know the rest of it
<penguin42> diddledan: It wasn't the size of the planet that made Earth able to find the answer, it was the biological life that formed part of it's compute matrix
<diddledan> aah
<diddledan> still, we do need more bypasses
<diddledan> hang on, are you suggesting that I'm biological?!
<penguin42>  'The computer will be so large and complex that even biological life will be a part of the computer program.'
<penguin42> diddledan: Well, do you taste good with ketchup?
<diddledan> I'm surely a figment of your imagination, no?
<diddledan> I think that depends which part of me you're tasting. my fingers, e.g., aren't that tasty - not enough meat
<mapps> hmm
<mapps> gym food..casino me thinks
<mapps> may aswell watch the nba there
<diddledan> http://gaspull.geeksaresexytech.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/stalking.jpg
<daftykins> Inbox: Facebook - diddledan wants to be friends on Facebook
<daftykins> ;D
<diddledan> :->
<mapps> :D
<mapps> facebook how old are you kids
<mapps> cba with all that
<diddledan> I'm now officially "thirty-something"
<diddledan> :-p
<diddledan> when did I get old?!
<diddledan> I swear I didn't allow that to happen
<DJones> 30......Old, rubbish
<robotninja> I turn 30 next weekend. Eeeep.
 * DJones kicks diddledan for even contemplating that 30 is old
<mapps> 30 in november
<mapps> :Z
<diddledan> DJones: 31, please. 30 != thirty-something
<diddledan> :-p
<diddledan> makes all the difference!
<penguin42> youngsters
<DJones> diddledan: 31, even so, kids today
<diddledan> lol
<mapps> and we have take off
<mapps> my dell machine sounding like a plan again when compiling
<mapps> lol
<diddledan> why you compiling for?!
<diddledan> apt-get install foo
<diddledan> if it isn't in apt, then it's not worth having
 * DJones notes that even deducting 31 from his age would still be a legal age for parenthood
 * diddledan goes back to os x
<diddledan> DJones: lol
<diddledan> I'm waiting for the time when I can "go out with someone half [my] age" and it be legal :-p
<diddledan> so next year then
<DJones> diddledan: You shoudl meet a guy at work,  he's a 54 year old tyre fitter, his girlfriend is a blond, swedish, 21 year old
<diddledan> that's just taking the widdle!
<penguin42> DJones: Heck, that does make you old :-)
 * penguin42 is going to match his nic this year
<DJones> diddledan: He got to meet her because she walked past our depot every day, got talking, she asked him to take her out, spent the night together, next morening she took him to mmet her parents who are both younger than him
<DJones> penguin42: :)
<DJones> penguin42: You're only as old as you feel, I feel early 30's, it'll do for me
 * penguin42 is glad you feel that young.....
<shauno> I still maintain dan's 12.
<daftykins> i feel like i should do more varied exercise again, my body doesn't feel as compliant as in my early 20s
<DJones> I'd feel younger if I wasm't going for a cortisone injection on friday
<daftykins> shauno: haha, what's my virtual-age?
<diddledan> shauno: ssshh
<shauno> the worrying thing is that's gotta be getting close to how long I've known him
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> shauno: probably longer now
<daftykins> did one of you drag the other in here? i don't know if i saw one of you first now
<shauno> I believe it was just a small world.  I'm not pretty enough to stalk
<diddledan> ;-)
<daftykins> haha
<shauno> okay, I should rephrase "I want to believe .."
<penguin42> yes, 'knowing' people on irc for 20+ years is interesting when you've never met them
<daftykins> last time i was in Brighton i met up with a US'ian from another channel who was in the neighbourhood
<daftykins> that was good :)
<mapps> :)
<daftykins> for anyone down Devon way, i'm going to be in 'Chard' end of June for a wedding
<shauno> I think the strange part for me, is that I've moved country twice in that time.  so he's 'known' me longer than anyone I know IRL now
<diddledan> isn't the whole point of IRC that it prevents the absurdity of physical contact?
<daftykins> well, i occasionally like to do that whole drinking ales thing
<daftykins> :D
<diddledan> lol
<mapps> hmm
<mapps> 3g or 4g today
<mapps> which shall i use
<diddledan> 4!! because moar
<shauno> which one matches your shoes best?
<mapps> heh
<diddledan> or shoes.
<diddledan> either or
<mapps> 3gs fast atm 8mbit
<mapps> yesterday was say 2mbit around now
<diddledan> 3gs? we're risking apple-naming territory now
<diddledan> s because s is obviously a marker of extra
<diddledan> moar
<daftykins> :D
<diddledan> http://gaspull.geeksaresexytech.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/talk.jpg
<diddledan> weather it is
<daftykins> annoys me when i do that
<daftykins> what's most amusing is i cycle, but most people i know will be in cars
<daftykins> guess who complains the most when it's raining? :)
<shauno> me?
<diddledan> shauno: you're in ireland, of course you're going to complain more
<daftykins> the car peeps ;)
<daftykins> lol
<diddledan> more rains == more complains
 * penguin42 complains if the rain misses ireland and then lands on us
<daftykins> :D
<Azelphur> well this is weird / extremely annoying...I can't paste text into thunderbird xD
<Azelphur> if I right click, the paste option is greyed out lol
<moreati> Azelphur: ctrl+v?
<Azelphur> figured it out, multi X screen issue...this is going to be annoying as all hell
<Azelphur> moreati: makes the application hang for a few seconds and produces no results
<moreati> ah
<Azelphur> can't paste between X screens any more...this is going to be so horribly painful
<moreati> Azelphur: highlight/middle click?
<Azelphur> moreati: nah, it's an across the board bug affecting every application it seems, I can only copy paste between applications on the same X screen
<penguin42> why multiple X screens ?
<Azelphur> because nvidia sucks and I have a lot of screens
<diddledan> xinerama ftw
<Azelphur> you know what, I should actually enable xinerama.
<penguin42> oh, nvidia hmm, how many screens?
<Azelphur> I don't use compiz any more, so why not xD
<Azelphur> 4
<penguin42> that's not that many 'lots' - how many cards?
<Azelphur> 2
<penguin42> so is this a separate X display on each card?
<Azelphur> yup
<penguin42> hmm, I thought Nvidia had ways not to do that
<Azelphur> it does, xinerama, I've always not used it because it breaks compiz
<Azelphur> but, I don't use compiz any more...so I should use xinerama
<diddledan> I believe xinerama prevents proprietary drivers from doing 3d
<mapps> http://annasagrera.com/on-ascii-youtube-and-letting-go/
<diddledan> so unity would be fail
<mapps> watching a video in my terminal but it dont look right at all
<mapps> lol
<Azelphur> I use XFCE, but I play games in steam, so no 3d will be a very quick visit
<Azelphur> but I'm sure I've played TF2 with xinerama before.
<Azelphur> I'm gonna try it, brb :)
<Azelphur> well I can run glxgears, but TF2 won't run
<penguin42> Azelphur: Don't nvidia have some other funky name for teaming multiple cards?
<Azelphur> penguin42: no idea
<Azelphur> looks like minecraft runs fine, must be TF2 specific
<penguin42> SLI?
<diddledan> I think sli is a different thing
<Azelphur> nope
<Azelphur> SLi is for combining multiple cards to get more power, requires identical cards
<penguin42> Twinview?
<Azelphur> penguin42: twinview is just that, TWINview
<Azelphur> doesn't work for quad
<Azelphur> although, it's perfectly capable of doing so, nvidia bricked the driver to try and force quadro cards on people
<robotninja> I wish I'd bought two of the monitor I have... Dual monitors would be very nice (I've got two at work) but I have this compulsive need for them to match.
<robotninja> There's one on fleabay but they want Â£120 for it, stuff that
<diddledan> I'm on a laptop with a 17in 4:3 and a 24in 16:10 - matching? hah!
<daftykins> oh yeah they definitely need to match
<daftykins> i think the differing colours would drive me insane otherwise
<diddledan> the laptop inbuilt is a 13in 16:9
<Azelphur> just get the imported korean ones, 1440p aww yis
<Azelphur> or wait 5 minutes and import some 4k ones
<Azelphur> https://github.com/ValveSoftware/steam-for-linux/issues/2285 hmm, this is my issue
<Azelphur> but I don't think RandR can actually do that? I thought RandR was simply a configuration thing
<daftykins> yeah i thought it was just for setting your screen setup
<penguin42> Azelphur: Out of gentle curiosity, does nouveau work on the cards?
<Azelphur> probably, but not with TF2 and the suchlike.
<diddledan> -0
<Azelphur> and for bonus points, easystroke has broke now too :(
 * penguin42 hates to think what easystroke is
<Azelphur> mouse gestures
<penguin42> oh
<daftykins> LOL
<daftykins> penguin42: you've been around diddledan too long ;)
 * penguin42 looks innocently at daftykins
<mapps> hmm
<mapps> anyone got a jb ios device?
<mapps> cant recall the app to remove restrictions so u can use apps on 3g that are set to wifi only
<dogmatic69_> why does 14.04 stop music when the screen locks... dumbest change ever.
<dogmatic69_> anyone know how to stop this happening?
<Azelphur> Is there any way to make the new IBus Preferences tool in Xubuntu 14.04 go die? it keeps changing my layout to US English even though my system is set to UK Colemak
<Azelphur> and even if I set it to UK Colemak, it's still wrong
<Azelphur> it seems to think UK Colemak == US Colemak :"
<Azelphur> I can't even do angry faces any more, :(
<daftykins> D:
<Azelphur> I can fix it by going into XFCEs keyboard settings and changing my keyboard layout, then changing it back again, silly IBus thing.
<diddledan> Azelphur: I recall there was a bug mentioned about that the other day - check launchpad
<Azelphur> fun
<Azelphur> diddledan: I'm more miffed about copy paste no longer being functional between X screens. :(
<daftykins> !
<daftykins> what happens if you overlap a window between, then copy when in the overlap portion? :D
<daftykins> heh my PhD physics mate has just got to japan with his new trusty install
<daftykins> he's trying to compile this physics prog he uses called ROOT, currently wading through all the issues that trusty is giving him :D
<penguin42> travelling on a fresh bleeding edge install
<daftykins> yep :D
<daftykins> he had major issues with 12.04 though
<daftykins> if VGA was connected it'd boot with that only, no internal screen
<daftykins> (optimus laptop)
<penguin42> ah yes, those are fun
<daftykins> same as mine, in fact
#ubuntu-uk 2015-04-20
<ali1234> the heat sink just fell off my CPU :(
<daftykins> fell!?
<daftykins> how on earth...
<ali1234> yes i was just sitting here and i heard a CLUNK noise inside the computer then the fan started getting louder and louder
<ali1234> well, the plastic bracket which the heat sink clips on to... the tab has sheared right through
<daftykins> we talking retail/OEM intel/AMD here?
<ali1234> AMD Phenom 2 with retail heatsink
<ali1234> broken part is on the Asus motherboard
<daftykins> :S
<daftykins> http://images.anandtech.com/reviews/cpu/amd/phenom2/955/fan1.jpg
<daftykins> that sort?
<ali1234> yes
<ali1234> see the orange thing that the metal is hooked on to?
<daftykins> wow that's going to be a real pain to whip out
<daftykins> yep
<ali1234> that has just snapped clean off
<daftykins> mobo bracket :/
<ali1234> i've already replaced it
<daftykins> oh you had a handy spare :D
<ali1234> my other computer has an asus motherboard too... bracket is almost identical
<ali1234> https://plus.google.com/+AlistairBuxton/posts/caDnm8HyYCW
<daftykins> :O
<knightwise> morning peeps
<MooDoo> morning all
<diplo> Morning all
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<MooDoo> howdy
<TwistedLucidity> Monday has slithered into existence once more
<zmoylan-pi> and tightens it's coils around you happiness
<zmoylan-pi> *your
<TwistedLucidity> I had my happiness surgically removed, makes it easier to cope with life.
<zmoylan-pi> the beatings will continue till morale improves-anonymous
<TwistedLucidity> Ah, but this is the Age of Austerity, you now how to pay for your own beatings
<popey> pip pip
 * zmoylan-pi directs TwistedLucidity to a dublin bar and tells him to buy a shirley temple for everyone in the bar...
<davmor2> Morning all
<bashrc_> tzag
<MooDoo> howdy davmor2
<foobarry> why do tesco delivery always bring stuff that is so close to sell by date?
<foobarry> i thought they had massive warehouses shipping stuff out all day long
<foobarry> delivery driver "what's this film frozen?" lucky guy!
<zmoylan-pi> good staff will make sure the close to stuff is shipped first.
<foobarry> yeah but they also promise to give stuff within good range , not for 21st and 20th april
<zmoylan-pi> it used to be a bugger after a day or two off sorting the fridge to get the close to date milk all the front to shift it
<foobarry> on a pack of 8 youghurts
<zmoylan-pi> ah, well, promise...
<foobarry> well they wasted them now as the guy had to take it back
<TwistedLucidity> foobarry: We tried hope shopping from a couple of supermarkets at Chrimbo, all the same "Eat within 2 days or discard"
<TwistedLucidity> We're actually now actively avoiding the supermarkets when we can. Better and cheaper produce at the local buther's etc
<TwistedLucidity> And the local butcher's doesn't evade tax (AFAIK)
<foobarry> what's a local butcher? they all closed years ago
<TwistedLucidity> Two on our high street
<foobarry> wow
<popey> we have one
<popey> best in the area
<zmoylan-pi> not here.  most people still use local butchers and fish shops
 * awilkins still has a local butcher
<awilkins> At least one
<awilkins> Several, actually
<foobarry> also, got 50 paving slabs delivered for the patio. one pack of 25 had only 8 salvageable. all cracked/broken in half
<TwistedLucidity> There's an award winning butcher about 15 mins by push bike too.
<foobarry> broken britain
<TwistedLucidity> Probably many more
<bashrc_> I remember there being a local butcher when I was a kid. The only thing approximating that now would be in some larger supermarkets
<awilkins> Remember the sawdust on the floor?
<foobarry> i know a trained butcher who is out of work as no local butchers
<diplo> We have butchers as well, the local market is even better
<TwistedLucidity> I asked the fishmonger in the local tax-evasion emporium how to cook some fish. He looked at me blankly and handed me a free ready-made sauce. Never went back for fish.
<foobarry> except for the "halal" ones
<TwistedLucidity> foobarry: Suggest to him that he go to a local enterprise scheme and start one
<zmoylan-pi> lots of empty shop spaces around these days
<bashrc_> "tax-evasion emporium". heh. Sad, but true
<TwistedLucidity> Our two seem to be rammed every day.
<foobarry> could be a lot of places? starbucks? amazon? vodafone?
<TwistedLucidity> zmoylan-pi: Indeed. But if our council is anything to go by, they want big-name "beacon brands" to move in so we become just like any other town in the UK
<TwistedLucidity> Perish the thought that a local enterprise might start up and provide something unique!
<TwistedLucidity> Not enough back-hand deals in that.
<bashrc_> competition is out of fashion
<foobarry> is it soap box day today?
<foobarry> tat reminds me, need to post my vote
<awilkins> Wanting big brands to move in is mental
<awilkins> (unless you are receiving a substantial bribe of some kind)
<TwistedLucidity> bashrc_: It cracks me up when I do go into other of them that you see signs like "<Big Name> caring for our community" and then some tripe about how they are teaching children that burgers come from boxes (or whatever).
<popey> http://www.woodsbutchers.com/
<popey> \o/
<awilkins> They siphon as much money as they can away from your area
<TwistedLucidity> Keep thinking that I whould go in with so pre-printed choice words on stickers
<awilkins> As an engineer, I like efficiency. But efficient at what?
<awilkins> Biology is a better example than engineering for living communities - life extracts everything it can from every drop of sunshine, doesn't just try and ship as much of it as possible to Lichtenstein
<TwistedLucidity> popey: Butcher's top-tumps? http://www.jtbeedham.com/
<zmoylan-pi> http://www.dun-laoghaire.com/profile/hicks/ so small they don't even bother with their own web site :-)
<TwistedLucidity> awilkins: And councils fall over themselves to invite the cancerous parasites in, often despite local opposition. Just a shame they get footfall; if more people refused, they'd go out of business.
<TwistedLucidity> Thing is, they tend to kill the local shops as quick as they can so residents have no choice.
<foobarry> haven't heard about novacut project in a long time
<popey> dont think he has much time to work on that
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Monday, and happy Chinese Language Day! :-D
<awilkins> æ¬¢ä¹ä¸­å½è¯­è¨ä¸å¤© !
<zmoylan-pi> free soup? where? :-P
<awilkins> å¹¶å¯è½ä½ ççªç¹è£
<foobarry> i remember when there was a lot of noise about it
<foobarry> (mainly on OMG i guess)
<davmor2> JamesTait: I'll have some "Flied Lice" with that :D
<foobarry> there is still room for a decent ubuntu blog reporting on various projects since omg seems to have dialled down on that area
<foobarry> is there a way to remove dupes from g+
<awilkins> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLLyeMm8ZK0
<foobarry> people like verge and boingboing seem to dupe post an awful lot and makes me unsubscribe them for noise reasons
<foobarry> i remember when everyone saved up on OMG to buy a laptop for bilal to work on novacut..
<davmor2> awilkins: You plick
<DJones> Stupid Dell, please use decent keyboards on Lattitude 3540's, having to hit the numeric keypad buttons with enough force to hammer nails in isn't a good selling point
<zmoylan-pi> but it will give accountants backup training as chiropractors...
<davmor2> DJones: you mean you are not thor?
<zmoylan-pi> i think he needs to type on model m for a few months to build up finger strength...
<DJones> I'll just keep hitting the buttons hard, maybe they'll ease off after a bit of use
<awilkins> Naah, model M doesn't need finger strength
<awilkins> Model M lets you be very efficient by providing tactile feedback
<awilkins> Less effort, less rsi
 * zmoylan-pi seems to remember one with lots of resistance...
<bashrc_> true
<bashrc_> I think hitting buttons hard is especially a problem on laptops where the keys don't have much travel
<zmoylan-pi> and yet my psion 3a with audible feedback allowed me to type 40wpm no problems in mid 90s and almost no travel on the keys
<awilkins> Laptop keyboards are often better than el-cheapo membrane keyboards
<awilkins> They're still membrane keyboards, but those individual rubber cups they use on each key seem to provide better feedback
<zmoylan-pi> i got a â¬15 blue tooth keyboard.  rubber membrane that feels like zx spectrum keyboard
<awilkins> Yuck
<zmoylan-pi> but â¬15 :-D
<awilkins> And WIRELESS
<awilkins> So you can wave it around while using it
<awilkins> Typing isn't something you have to do while staying still anymore!
<zmoylan-pi> took me an hour to decode the engrish instructions.
<zmoylan-pi> printed in a booklet that opened fully was smaller than a postcard
<foobarry> i got an great BT keyboard for aorund 20Â£
<bashrc_> the better laptop keyboards use scissor switches
<foobarry> don't use it as much as i thought
<zmoylan-pi> i had a stowaway keyboard for palm iiix in 90s and almost never used it.  but it was so so cool :-)
<awilkins> scissor switches are the ones with the wee rubber cup under them
<awilkins> The scissor just stops them being all flobby
<zmoylan-pi> ah the stowaway.  made the palm look super high tech... :-) http://danbricklin.com/log/stowaway.htm
<bashrc_> heh
<bashrc_> I used some later generation winCE PDAs. But the PDA concept was later replaced by smartphones
<zmoylan-pi> smartphones haven't to my mind caught up with pda functionality yet
<zmoylan-pi> pdas like psion and later palm were independent computers with as much funtionality crammed in whereas smart phones are merely terminals to the cloud which is not always around
<bashrc_> I think I can do everything on a smartphone now that I could on a PDA 15 years ago, and more besides
<zmoylan-pi> go for a week between recharges? :-P
<bashrc_> depends how much I use it, but battery life on the winCE PDAs was also not especially good
<zmoylan-pi> well wince were a bit of a joke. i never saw one in use for more than a few weeks
<zmoylan-pi> whereas i saw psions everywhere. and palm
<bashrc_> I used one between about 2000 and 2005
<bashrc_> the psions were good, but more expensive
<zmoylan-pi> i averaged about 40 hours a week on the psions. used at work and at home
<zmoylan-pi> i used it instead of pc at home as it did everything i wanted
<directhex_> yay, i have a cable!
<davmor2> popey, MooDoo: you guys will appreciate this.  I woke up this morning with this song stuck in my head https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14b-BASNVdI
<MooDoo> davmor2: oh how I loved kim
<davmor2> MooDoo: :)
<davmor2> is popey on holiday irc is always quiet when he is :D
<zmoylan-pi> could be mondayitis?
<Myrtti_> I have post-Finnish General Election mental hangover.
<popey> davmor2: sprint in london
<Myrtti_> hubby entertained himself last night while I was watching the Finnish election results rolling in by coding in Ruby a calculation on how 2010 British General Election had gone if the same votes were counted in the method used in Finland.
<Myrtti_> (and on European Parliament election)
<davmor2> popey: hence the silence
<popey> just had a nice walk around the park at lunchtime
<davmor2> popey: I had a nice walk down stairs mind you that's about as far as I wanted to go too :)
<bashrc_> the weather is sunny out
<Myrtti> yeah, laundry day
<zmoylan-pi> it's a trap!!
<zmoylan-pi> it's luring you out into the open...
<Myrtti> UV hat and new sunscreen lotion to the rescue!
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: I've heard of this mythical outside before I don't put much faith in it's existence
<foobarry> i felt dizzy and photosensitive outside today
<zmoylan-pi> if the outside was so great why have humans developed all this technology to enclose and make it nice inside?
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: more import if the outside is so great why do complain about it all the time and invent things like clothes and sunblock to protect against it
<directhex_> there are bears outside
<zmoylan-pi> or transport system to get away from local outside?
<directhex_> maybe
<directhex_> i don't want to risk being mauled
<zmoylan-pi> all the bears in ireland left long ago to become polar bears.  to get away from the cold i suspect
<zmoylan-pi> :-) http://www.theguardian.com/science/2011/jul/07/polar-bear-ancestors-ireland
<foobarry> someone do me a favour. any gmail users with chrome hit shift-esc and tell me how much RAM gmail is using pls
<popey> 369MB
<foobarry> mine was using 1gb
<foobarry> closed the tab and reopened, now using 300-500mb
<zmoylan-pi> don't you hate when the os/client and service are coming from 3 separate companies? :-P
<davmor2> MooDoo, popey, knightwise: http://open.spotify.com/user/1142386698/playlist/1PW4VnQ5j1IEXO8DGVIQFQ is a fantastic album :)
<davmor2> bigcalm: ^ you might like it too
<foobarry> gah, keep typing last when i mean tail
<davmor2> foobarry: alias last to tail :D
<zmoylan-pi> and the first shall be last and the last shall be mucked up...
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: no you change First to head obviously durrrr
<MooDoo> davmor2: listening now
<MooDoo> yay synth pop
<davmor2> MooDoo: new album that I saw during lunch break and thought I might have a listen to that
<MooDoo> davmor2: it's pretty good :D
<davmor2> MooDoo: That's why I recommended it :D
<davmor2> Will you rock me Amadeus
<MooDoo> tainted love ;)
<diddledan> arta noon
<daftykins> ah greetings dan of the diddle
<diddledan> oo arr
<diddledan> I think that's about the extent of my hampshire accent
<diddledan> countryfolk
<diddledan> speaking of which, what's the difference between a city fire engine and a country fire engine?
<daftykins> the mechanism making the siren?
<diddledan> close. the city engine goes NEENAH NEENAH NEENAH whereas the country one goes oo arr. ooh arr. ooh arr.
<daftykins> :>
<daftykins> needs a few *neigh* *winny winny* in there to indicate horse-drawn
<diddledan> lolk
<diddledan> --k
<diddledan> clickity clack?
<diddledan> or is that a train?
<daftykins> i'm not sure one fights fires in heels ;)
<diddledan> well he would be fabulous if he did
<diddledan> good ol' susan
<diddledan> ref: https://youtu.be/fsQCrWMQ8_Q?t=5852
<diddledan> can't actually find just that bit in a legal copy
<daftykins> what on earth was that O_O
<diddledan> it's "meet dave"
<diddledan> you never seen it?
<daftykins> newp!
<diddledan> tis fun if you don't overthink it
<diddledan> heh, just read the phrase "securit impact of wifi on a plane" and it reminded me of another film that you really mustn't think at all when watching: snakes on a plane
<davmor2> diddledan: could be worse could be tribbles on a plane
<bashrc_> hippos on a plane
<diddledan> lol
<davmor2> bashrc: I'd rather hippos than tribbles
<zmoylan-pi> sharks on a plane
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: you just being daft now.....unless it's flying fog sharks
<zmoylan-pi> nah, mutant sharks with lasers obviously
<diddledan> they don't need to be mutant to have lasers on their heads
<zmoylan-pi> but they need lungs to be able to breath on the plane
<diddledan> hmm
<diddledan> point
<zmoylan-pi> the lasers are just to distract any cats that might also be on the plane
<zmoylan-pi> kinda writes itself... :-P
 * awilkins has had it with these melon-farming cats on this melon-farming plane
<awilkins> (we're going to the Florida Melon Growers Association Convention)
<daftykins> my cat cares not for lasers
<daftykins> she doesn't even need accessories for fun: https://www.dropbox.com/s/68t62blrc55f1it/VID_20150420_015606.mp4?dl=0
<diddledan> lol - I love that cats just can't grok that the tail is their own at times
<diddledan> I also like when they cuddle it
<daftykins> :D
<diddledan> like a teddy
<diddledan> I'd totally cuddle my tail if I had one
<daftykins> now the sun has returned i can see just how disgusting my laptop keyboard looks :(
<diddledan> lol
<daftykins> sometimes i think she does know it's hers... just it refuses to come along quietly and be bathed
<daftykins> so she opens a can of cat-like administration upon it
<diddledan> hehe
<MartijnVdS> http://thecodelesscode.com/case/188
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<bigcalm> popey: FYI, I'm bigcuthy
<popey> bigcalm: on what?
<bigcalm> On things that I am not bigcalm
<bigcalm> ;)
<bigcalm> gta v
<popey> oh
<popey> ah
<popey> can't play that tonightr
 * popey is in that London
<bigcalm> Boo, pfft
<davmor2> bigcalm: you got it working in the end then
<bigcalm> davmor2: it updated and started working
<bigcalm> Quite pleased that I had today booked off work
<davmor2> bigcalm: \o/
<bigcalm> Though it reminded me how pants I am at such games
<davmor2> bigcalm: hahahahahaha
<diddledan> this is a fun quote from a sky rep: "very few people in the UK actually need 152mb, unless you have over a dozen computers in your house all downloading illegally, streaming and online gaming on multiple devices all at the same time."
<diddledan> I like that they have to be downloading illegally
<diddledan> ref: http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/furious-sky-customer-spends-96-5554219
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> it's like the Comcast thing in the US only longer-winded
<DJones> diddledan: That sounds like the Virgin broadband reps that come to our house, we can offer you 150Mb broadband, my reply is always, OK when are you going to dig the roads/pavements up to install cable in this area..........They disappear quicker than the road runnner chased by wyle-e-cayotee
<davmor2> hahahahahahaha 152mb hahahahahahahahahahaha
<diddledan> I have no idea why virgin were diggin my road last weds
<diddledan> it seems they've put a new fibre to the cab
<diddledan> maybe they're having issues with contention
<diddledan> although there is this rumour: http://www.thinkbroadband.com/news/6929-virgin-media-300-mbps-ultrafast-cable-service-spotted.html
<daftykins> DJones: :D
<daftykins> that's like the Sky or BT reps that phone channel islanders
<daftykins> "we can offer you broadband!"
<daftykins> "no you can't, you do not operate here..."
<directhex_> i get 76 meg down and it's fine. more would be nice, but i don't feel speed is a major issue
<diddledan> I really want symmetric
<diddledan> I hate slow upload
<directhex_> i get 76 up
<directhex_> er, 16
<daftykins> that'd be sweet
<daftykins> whoa my friend that lives in Jersey tells me he told TV licensing he doesn't need one, but he's still getting a court summons
<diddledan> grr
<davmor2> daftykins: that's okay as long as he can prove that he doesn't need one there isn't a problem
<DJones> daftykins: So, they're over 75 or don't have a tv? That seems tobe the only exemptions
<daftykins> yeah, just amazed they're that desperate over there.
<daftykins> DJones: nah, policy has come a long way over the years... you now only have to be someone that actively uses broadcast live TV
<daftykins> or records live TV
<DJones> Heh, we've got things like dumb-enders etc to be paid for
<daftykins> X|
<daftykins> you can even use iPlayer without paying for a license
<diddledan> daftykins: iplayer only non-live
<diddledan> if you're watching live streams on iplayer you need a license
<daftykins> yep
<diddledan> seems silly to me to differentiate like that
<daftykins> tough one to prove really, mmm
<ali1234> so ipv6
<ali1234> i need to enter the ipv6 address of my server into the google developer console
<ali1234> but it says my address is invalid
<ali1234> ifconfig says my address ends with ::2/64 and google will not accept this
<diddledan> ali1234: without the /64
<ali1234> what does it mean?
<diddledan> it's the netmask
<ali1234> i know what it means in ipv4
<ali1234> what does the ::2 mean though?
<ali1234> google will accept it without the ::2
<diddledan> ::2 is a load of zeroes ending in 2
<diddledan> it's a shorthand way of reducing the length of address for typing
<ali1234> so :: means "pad this bit with zeros to the required length?"
<diddledan> i.e. fe80::1 is fe80:0000:0000:0000:0000:0000:0002 (I think that's the right number of breaks)
<diddledan> 1**
<ali1234> google says these are valid ip addresses: One IP address or subnet per line. Example: 192.168.0.1, 172.16.0.0/16, 2001:db8::1 or 2001:db8::/64
<ali1234> but 2001:db8::1/64 is not valid
<diddledan> a subnet doens't end in 1
<diddledan> a subnet ends in 0 so you knock off the 1 and leave it ending in ::
<ali1234> so what is ifconfig telling me?
<diddledan> ifconfig is telling you the actual address of your machine and netmask
<ali1234> it's saying "your ip is blah::2 and you netmask is blah::/64"
<diddledan> no the netmask is just the /64
<ali1234> right, or course
<diddledan> and the ip is blah::2
<ali1234> blah::/64 would be the network address?
<diddledan> yup
<ali1234> right
<ali1234> that should be what i need then
<ali1234> i think this server has a whole subnet assigned to it, because ipv6 space is cheap
<diddledan> if it was aaaa:bbbb:cccc:dddd:eeee:ffff/64 however, the network address would be just aaaa:bbbb:cccc::
<ali1234> yes but that would not be a valid network address
<diddledan> similar to how in ip4 land 192.168.1.1/24's network is 192.168.1.0
<ali1234> yeah this form won;t accept 192.168.1.1/24 either for exactly the same reason
<diddledan> yes so you either want 192.168.1.1 or 192.168.1.0/24
<ali1234> thanks
<ali1234> gah, google developer console is just broken anyway
<ali1234> server isn't using ipv6 at all, the key just stopped working for no reason
<ali1234> making a new one with the exact same settings works fine
<diddledan> err.. http://gizmodo.com/this-craigslister-made-the-most-ridiculous-used-car-ad-1698053395
<daftykins> ;]
<daftykins> diddledan: you pretty good with mysql and apache2 tweaking on the memory footprint front?
<daftykins> my clean install of 14.04 server is so much more bloated than 10.04 with the same config :<
<ali1234> really? how so?
<daftykins> well, hardly comes as a surprise given times change i guess
<ali1234> not so much in server land
<daftykins> the little VM has 256MB RAM and runs a simple wordpress site
<ali1234> oh jeez
<daftykins> tends to get next to no visits per month :)
<ali1234> yeah that's not going to end well
<daftykins> worked fine with lucid :D
<daftykins> never used to dip into swap for example
<daftykins> seemed mysql was the main offender, not sure if i can reduce that via its' config
<daftykins> query_cache_limit = 1M, query_cache_size = 16M
<daftykins> hrmm
<ali1234> "swap" is pretty much meaningless on a 256mb VM
<daftykins> how-so?
<ali1234> well assuming you bought it from a hosting company
<daftykins> nah it's at home 100% under my control, this thing is just a muckabout
<ali1234> that's different then
<ali1234> hosting companies always over provision their cheap VMs
<ali1234> it's likely that you only really have 32MB of real memory on a 256MB VM
<daftykins> yeah
<ali1234> the kernel needs X amount of true unswappable memory, the rest is fake
<ali1234> 1and1 are particularly bad for this, they give you like 8MB and the kernel will crash if you open too many files even if you have hundreds of "MB" free
<daftykins> lol oh dear
<ali1234> (note, file size doesn't matter, you run out of space for file handles in the kernel)
<diddledan> a lot of cheap VMs are also openvz
<ali1234> yes, 1and1 is openvz
<ali1234> it's totally awful
<daftykins> ok fresh boot sits at 240MB used right away, 7MB free - swap untouched
#ubuntu-uk 2015-04-21
<daftykins> mysqld is top of top (tee-hee) at 13.7% mem used 0o
<diddledan> that's 60MB for mysqld?
<daftykins> looking at some google results they're talking about tweaking some settings
<daftykins> http://askubuntu.com/questions/534793/mysqld-is-suddenly-taking-too-much-memory-and-my-laptop-is-getting-hotter
<diddledan> now speaking of rams - why are all the search server things (namely elasticsearch and solr) based on java?!
<ali1234> java is hugely popular in that space
<diddledan> indeed
<diddledan> surely someone's ported lucene elesewhere tho?
<ali1234> probaly because those things are always going to be big and complicated and require huge teams to build
<ali1234> and that is where java excels
<diddledan> I guess
<diddledan> what I don't get tho, to tie in to elasticsearch there's the logstash thing, which is written in ruby, and run with jruby because JAVA
<ali1234> i couldn't eve figure out how to set up either of those two search tools
<diddledan> I just can't work out why you'd take ruby and run it in java
<ali1234> because the developers write a huge complicated server thing that nobody can understand using java
<ali1234> and then devops writes a bunch of scripts to make it usable in ruby
<ali1234> then those scripts get folded back into the project
<diddledan> that's just it tho - logstash is essentially completely separate
<ali1234> yes, exactly
<diddledan> it talks to logstash via http
<diddledan> erm
<diddledan> logstash talks to elastic
<ali1234> if you have a full java stack where everything is written in java, you probably don't want to set up a whole parallel infrastructure to run ruby things
<ali1234> you're just going to make it run on what you alread have
<ali1234> all of this stuff boils down to lazyness in the end :)
<diddledan> lol
<daftykins> http://www.tocker.ca/2014/03/10/configuring-mysql-to-use-minimal-memory.html
<daftykins> this seems handy
<daftykins> ooh neat that cut it nicely
<diddledan> oh poo
<daftykins> 170MB at boot \o/
<diddledan> samba 4 active directory: "The internal DNS backend currently needs a restart of Samba to take effect. See bug report #9404"
<diddledan> specifically when you add a new dns zone
<daftykins> that a problem to restart?
<diddledan> it's annoying to remember
<diddledan> different interface
<diddledan> I'm using freenas right now as my dc
<diddledan> means to restart samba I need to go to the webadmin and find the right button and flip it
<daftykins> 76MB free instead of 7MB :D
<diddledan> it isn't obvious that you need to restart it because records in already created zones reload fine when changed or added
<diddledan> but new zones need a restart
<daftykins> funky!
<diddledan> it's made even weirder because there's two backends for dns - an internal-to-samba one or an optional bind plugin called bind-dlz - the latter one does NOT require any restarts for new zones
<diddledan> confused yet?
<daftykins> totally
<diddledan> maybe I should suggest freenas move over to use bind :-p
<daftykins> you had me lost at using a domain *whistle*
<daftykins> :D
 * diddledan blows raspberries
<diddledan> mmpie
<knightwise> morning peeps
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<MooDoo> morning all
<knightwise> morning MooDoo diddledan
<knightwise> morning diplo
<diddledan> allo
<knightwise> hacked a tupperware box into a case for my raspberry pi2 :)
<knightwise> Finally a good use for that tupperware evening i had to sit through last year
<knightwise> does the latest Ubuntu image still fit on a cd ?
<diddledan> nope
<SuperMatt> hasn't done for a while
<knightwise> ok
<knightwise> 29 inch ultrawide monitor is realy handy :)
<knightwise> Got an elementary vm running side by side with a browser ...
<diddledan> yeah, that would be nice
<knightwise> transition between the native os and elementary vm is so smooth the whole vm just feels like just another app window
<diplo> Good morning all!
<knightwise>  hey diplo
<knightwise> hmm. just saw that you can run popcorn time on the raspberry pi2 :) Worth looking at
<diplo> I'm dubious about popcorn time :)
<diplo> I'd love to have everything that is available via torrents on a netflix style thing, would even pay Â£20-30 a month for it instead of the netflix Â£6 but it's never going to happen
<popey> popcorn time is just a pretty interface to torrents, that's all
<knightwise> popey: indeed
<knightwise> and its DAMN handy :)
<diplo> yeah I know, but doesn't netflix use some sort of p2p to share some bandwith as well
<diplo> Japans Maglev train hit a new world record, 375MPH !!
<popey> no
<popey> netflix has a large content delivery network
<davmor2> diplo: Netflix uses Ubuntu on Amazon Cloud as I understand it
<TwistedLucidity> knightwise: But one is still subject to the legal impacts, no?
<diplo> ah right, I thought I read somewhere a while ago they used some of your bandwidth to.. probably something else :)
<knightwise> TwistedLucidity: true.
<diddledan> I'm getting silly with my network
<diddledan> I've now got an amazon virtual private cloud subnet vpning to home and home vpning to several other servers and them all sharing routing info via bgp
<diddledan> I honestly don't really understand it but it's working
<TwistedLucidity> With Sony strong-arming Netflix, HBO Now cutting off VPN users...it's lioke peolpe don't understand that a global network is, well, *GLOBAL*. Trying to impose geopgraphic restrictions makes little sense.
<TwistedLucidity> Getting annoyed at people using VPNs to access cheaper/blocked content also makes little sense - that's simply the free-marketing correcting itself.
<TwistedLucidity> diddledan: A home VPN is pretty nifty. Great for tunneling over free WiFi to avoid the snooping
<diddledan> TwistedLucidity: my plan is to be able to vpn into my home network and instantly get access to all my servers via their private-space ip addresses (my vpc has dev servers that aren't exposed to the world)
<diplo> ah just googled it, they were looking to employ someone to implement p2p technology in their product mid last year
<diddledan> diplo: that probably won't work in the browser tho?
<knightwise> diddledan: why not use Shuttle ?
<knightwise> sshuttle
<diddledan> shuttle?
<diplo> Probably not, it was a job posting... so realy detail
<diplo> so really no detail*
<knightwise> vpn over ssh , you can tunnel all your traffic thrpooufh one point into your network
<diddledan> that's not layer3 tho
<knightwise> its a socks5 proxy
<knightwise> well ,its a little more then that
<diddledan> yeah I want routing
<diddledan> and auto config
<diddledan> e.g. if I add another subnet it will magically appear on all my connected systems' routing tables
<diddledan> (bgp is what the big boys use)
<knightwise> that i dont know
<diddledan> the majority of the internet's backbone relies on the same tech I'm using
<foobarry> cat before the internet: http://shop.bl.uk/mall/productpage.cfm/BritishLibrary/_ISBN_9780712358187/-/Medieval-Cats-%28hardback%29
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<TwistedLucidity> Had cause to try out OSMC (the new RaspBMC) on a B+ Pi last night; rather neat it is too.
<TwistedLucidity> Based off of Debain so, unlike on OpenElec, I could install Perl and have get_iplayer.cgi running.
<TwistedLucidity> It's maybe a wee bitty slower than OpenElec, but I can't see that making much odds on a Pi 2.
<TwistedLucidity> Only negative I can think of is the Kodi skin. Looks very Windows and the menus are vertical; which is (IMHO) dumb on a TV that is wider than it is tall.
<TwistedLucidity> Check it out if you want: https://osmc.tv/
<awilkins> Annoyance : why does libegl1-mesa:i386 depend on libwayland-server0:i386 ??
<awilkins> Or do I just have a borked up apt database?
 * awilkins does apt-get update
<awilkins> Ok, it still depends on libwayland-server0 but the dependency chain isn't broken now
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Kindergarten Day! :-D
 * zmoylan-pi hands out the tin cups to the inmates at the kindergarten...
<diddledan> \o/
<foobarry> just bougth myself one of those xiaomi mi band
<foobarry> steps and sleep traker
<foobarry> ugh my typing is broken
<zmoylan-pi> OR the band is heavy... :-)
<foobarry> it will take some weeks to arrive :(
<foobarry> because i am a cheapskate
<foobarry> or patient
<foobarry> ...enforced patience
<zmoylan-pi> wow, that's really heavy... /best hippie accent
<directhex_> i have a fitbit
<JamesTait> zmoylan-pi, far be it from me to make any comparisons between the behaviour typically found in a kindergarten and that found in certain communities or exhibited by certain prominent public figures.
<foobarry> directhex_: how much did you pay?
<directhex_> Â£120
<TwistedLucidity> >.<
<directhex_> trackers w/ heart rate monitoring aren't cheap
<foobarry> ah wow, that has gps too?
<directhex_> nope. next model up has gps
<foobarry> man thats Â£Â£
<zmoylan-pi> and if you only saw how much they cost AFTER you started wearing them it would be a great calibration test... :-P
<TwistedLucidity> Connect it to your insurance company and get discount on life insurance (read: invade your own privacy to save 50p a month!)
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ki7VqBmkf7M
<directhex_> i've lost more than a stone so far
<directhex_> so *shrug* it works
<foobarry> i don't need to lose weight :(
<foobarry> rather the opposite
<foobarry> its so easy to lose weight, so hard to gain
<directhex_> i'm overweight
<directhex_> i'm losing weight, whilst eating cheeseburgers. great diet!
<TwistedLucidity> I'm happy with my weight, I just need the mass to migrate from where it is to where I'd rather it was
 * TwistedLucidity prods belly
<TwistedLucidity> foobarry: Eat more, move less.
<directhex_> i was concerned about health, so decided to get my BMI down to "normal"
<directhex_> also, i'm sick of 38" waist jeans
<TwistedLucidity> Although that'll be fat you gain...which may not be the best idea
<foobarry> i was hoping to gain some over easter but my daughter caught a D&V bug
<foobarry> which we all caught
<TwistedLucidity> directhex_: Wear stilts then recalculate BMI. Problem solved!
<foobarry> hence lose 1/2 stone
<zmoylan-pi> fun for all the family :-/
<directhex_> d&v is a great weight-loss regimen!
<directhex_> so is a tapeworm!
<directhex_> for me though, it's been more exercise & less cake
<zmoylan-pi> just make sure the wifi extends to the loo with backup reading material printed on soft paper
<foobarry> how many steps a day are you doing?
<directhex_> usually only 7500. but i'm doing 40 minutes a day on the exercise bike
<foobarry> i wonder when it will get to teh point that your doctor asks to see your steps count
<TwistedLucidity> foobarry: More worrying, when will your insurance company demand to see it
<foobarry> fitbit can't really understand cycling except for heart rate i guess
<directhex_> foobarry: hence the hrart rate model!
<zmoylan-pi> can't strap it to you leg...
<TwistedLucidity> It would be kinda tricky, especially with the gearing etc
<TwistedLucidity> Wonder what it would make of a martial arts class....although watches etc normally have to be removed for safety
<foobarry> when i get my xiaomi i want to calibrate it against a person with 2 other devices
<directhex_> TwistedLucidity: heart rate monitoring is enough IME. also a surprising number of calories in housework
<zmoylan-pi> i got a water proof/shock proof watch with a bunch of sensors (temp/pressure/compass etc.) in early 00s. it didn't survive fencing
<TwistedLucidity> directhex_: Yeah...don't have to tell me that. Also the slow-burn of housework means you can sustain it for much longer
<TwistedLucidity> More calories in having to break, shovel and then carry goodness knows how much dirt.
<TwistedLucidity> DIY-blog
<foobarry> gardening is serious work
<foobarry> had to move a rose bush the other day
<foobarry> at 9pm
<foobarry> i was in my tshirt
<zmoylan-pi> and with all these health trackers it's only a matter of time before all the data is been requested in divorce cases... http://www.wired.com/2014/12/wearables-in-court/
<foobarry> a great upgrade for twitter would be to allow tweets from some users only during certain window. e.g. if i wanna follow tfl or my train company, i only want to see tweets sent between my commuting hrs
<foobarry> or hopefully in the future google now will read them and only tell me if bad things..
<diplo> I just use lists for stuff like that now foobarry
<diplo> Never look at the main stream
<zmoylan-pi> that would assume the train company doesn't send tweets about the wild cat strike to their customers the night before so they can make alternate plans
<TwistedLucidity> If it's important, I bally well expect the train company to have a page sent to my door with the missive!
<foobarry> how do the lists work
<foobarry> are they customised searches?
<TwistedLucidity> foobarry: Usually one thing after another. :-P
<foobarry> for people you don't subscribe/follow?
<zmoylan-pi> lists are just a list of accounts you want to follow.  i use them for specific typese of news. then read those lists when i'm in the mood or looking for a particular story
<davmor2> JamesTait: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ucfgdFrlho
<foobarry> do i have to follow them first?
<foobarry> how do i get them out of my main feed?
<zmoylan-pi> nope, beside the follow button on the web page there's a gizmo that allows you to add them to list
<zmoylan-pi> then unfollow them. leaving them in the list
<TwistedLucidity> Too much junk on Twitter. Used it for a month and then gave up due to all the "spam" (i.e. twits that I had no interest in)
<foobarry> i have 3 accounts
<zmoylan-pi> i have my timeline now just personal friends and 1-2 local news feeds for travel.  gardai and dublin bus.
<foobarry> hence i have to use plume to read twitter
<foobarry> so maybe i just need lists instead
<zmoylan-pi> tweetdeck on laptop is optimal
<zmoylan-pi> lists is the poor mans version of plume/tweetdeck
<zmoylan-pi> you can add a list to an alternate list in plume
<zmoylan-pi> *alternate column
<foobarry> i wanna ditch plume soon
<foobarry> which should be possible with lists
<zmoylan-pi> has gotten crashy recently for me
<foobarry> twitter official client won't mux together various accounts into one feed
<foobarry> plume doesn't show vines or gifs and the ads are annoying
<foobarry> its not good enough to buy for the price they want
<knightwise> Ubuntu doesnt run that bad on the pi2
<bashrc_> I think pi2 is quad core. Should be ok
<awilkins> Yeah, it has a GB of RAM as well
<TwistedLucidity> Can even do virtualisation 8-O
<directhex_> pi2 still lacks I/O acceleration, so is still sorta bad
<directhex_> but it's a definite improvement
<popey> \o/ left over gammon in a sandwich for lunch
<zmoylan-pi> green ham and eggs? :-)
<popey> mustard / may and ham
<davmor2> popey: but it's april :D
<popey> and it's sunny!
<zmoylan-pi> snow forecast for the weekend i think
<davmor2> popey: shhhh you might scare it away :D
<popey> \o/
<ne2k> I am running trusty in a KVM vm (Proxmox 3.3, third party platform, can't change). It runs happily for a short while and then goes to 100% CPU and will not accept any input nor an ACPI shutdown. any suggestions as to how to go about further debugging of this?
<intrbiz> ne2k: is the VM doing anything before it goes 100% and effectively offline? or is it an idle, blank VM?
<ne2k> intrbiz, it's just a clean install of trusty x86_64 server
<ne2k> intrbiz, with the latest updates
<intrbiz> ne2k: with nothing running?
<ne2k> intrbiz, nothing that I've added
<ne2k> intrbiz, there are obviously quite a few system services running, obviously
<intrbiz> ne2k: sure, do you have any access to the console?
<ne2k> intrbiz, it has a single virtio disk and a single virtio network card
<ne2k> intrbiz, I have access to the console of the VM, not the hypervisor
<intrbiz> ne2k: is there anything on the console when it crashes?
<ne2k> intrbiz, no, just the login prompt as it woudl normally be, and the cursor is no longer flashing
<ne2k> after a reboot, I checked syslog and there was nothing before the crash, just the once-an-hour "MARK" and then nothing
<intrbiz> ne2k: can your provider setup a serial console for the VM logging to a file?
<intrbiz> ne2k: as a way to try and get a kernel trace if it is panicing
<ne2k> intrbiz, they possibly could. not sure if it would help
<ne2k> intrbiz, is there any setup from the guest side to enable that?
<intrbiz> ne2k: just a kernel parameter to add to the boot line
<ChloeWolfieGirl> Whats the q&A channel? >.<
<ne2k> ChloeWolfieGirl, whu?
<ChloeWolfieGirl> Just wondering what the ubuntu q&A channel is.
<ne2k> ChloeWolfieGirl, I'm not sure what that means. this is a channel in which you can ask questions, and if people can answer them, they will try to
<ChloeWolfieGirl> Found it, #ubuntu-on-air I was looking for Q&A
<ne2k> fair enough. never heard of it
<directhex_> woo, wife's new handbag seems to have arrived in the UK from taiwan
<diddledan> yippee?
<foobarry> is windows 2003 server EOL soon?
<diddledan> I belive so, foobarry
<directhex_> diddledan: of course yippee. it's amaaazing
<directhex_> https://www.jumpfrompaper.com/europe/originals/backpack/spaceman/
<diddledan> directhex_: in that case then, "yippee!"
<diddledan> that makes my eyes go screwey
<directhex_> :D
<diddledan> I'm not sure that it's green though
<directhex_> now i'm waiting on new computer parts. which should arrive tomorrow -> monday
<diddledan> (hover over the left-hand colour swatch)
<diddledan> apparently cyan is now green
<diddledan> anyway, back to testing my wordpress plugins
<daftykins> foobarry: yep June or July
<daftykins> 2003 R2 as well
<daftykins> SBS 2003 is already dead afaiui
<directhex_> cool kids already upgraded their servers to windows 10 tech preview
<daftykins> ;)
<daftykins> most of those have been in #ubuntu having tried to multiboot but ended up wiping the entire disk *giggle*
<diddledan> daftykins: you sadist
<daftykins> why am i when it's them doing it XD
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> because you're laughing at them
<directhex_> i'm gonna run 10 on my new pc
<diddledan> directhex_: \o/
<directhex_> use the tech preview for now, then buy it in a couple of months
<directhex_> buying 8 now is dumb
<daftykins> that and 8 being terrible
<daftykins> ;D
<directhex_> this old box has a vista home basic oem license :D
<directhex_> also win7 pro and win8 pro upgrades. but still...
<daftykins> erk!
<daftykins> i am curious as to how this Windows 10 upgrade 'free' -ness will work
<diddledan> it's apparently being baked into windows update as an optional install
<daftykins> blech, i want ISOs
<directhex_> installing 8.1 on this pc: install vista basic. insert win8 install dvd, boot, wipe vista partition. go trhough windows update & reboot 3 or 4 times, until 8.1 appears in app store. windows update another 10 times
<daftykins> that can be clean installed from
<directhex_> daftykins: precisely why i'm buying 10, not 8 then upgrading
<daftykins> mmm 8 has got to have the worst setup for updating in history
<daftykins> you can't even download installers to make it easier, since they still offer you a bunch of updates that must be installed in sequence
<directhex_> got a win10 installer usb stick prepped
<directhex_> new pc parts should mostly arrive tomorrow. wife can help with the build
<daftykins> how high spec are you going? haswell-E? :D
<diddledan> yey for shared pursuits!
<daftykins> hehe, i've had to tell off my dear lady friend for thinking molex to floppy converters are 4-pin mobo fan header to molex fan adapters ;)
<diddledan> erk
<daftykins> still, can see how you'd think that if you'd never built in the floppy era
<diddledan> whatever you do, don't think they're mobo fan to hdd power :-p
<daftykins> XD
<directhex_> daftykins: haswell-e.
<daftykins> rawr
<directhex_> i7-5820k, gtx 980, 960gb ssd, 32gb ddr4
<directhex_> in festive red & black
<daftykins> crikey, that'll be some Â£
<directhex_> yep
<directhex_> good job i took out some extra when i got a loan to buy the volt
<daftykins> XD
<directhex_> saving the planet w/ new car... killing it w/ new pc
<diddledan> vmware, huh? "This license key can be deployed on an unlimited number of physical hosts, but is restricted to deployment on less than or equal to 0 Physical Servers."
<diddledan> so what's the difference between a host and a server?
<diddledan> in terms of vmware esxi, I mean
<daftykins> diddledan: that could well be the most confusing statement i've ever read
<diddledan> great, huh?
<daftykins> diddledan: did you work it out yet?
<diddledan> nope
<daftykins> is it a statement from a web-based account that's just broken, maybe?
<diddledan> it's the output from vmware.com on the download page
#ubuntu-uk 2015-04-22
<knightwise> good morning peeps
<daftykins> o/
<elfy> morning
<knightwise> morning
<daftykins> http://www.visitguernsey.com/conquer
<daftykins> aaaah this looks so much fun but i don't think i can get my bike fixed by Sunday!
<MooDoo> now that looks amazing
<daftykins> i don't own any safety gear too, mandatory full face!
<MooDoo> yeah knee and elbow pads too, but it looks fun
<zmoylan-pi> padding for the crossbar might help too :-P
<MooDoo> yup had a few issues with that over the kid years lol
<daftykins> nah appropriate bikes don't have a crossbar that high up
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/ixap3kddvynw452/IMG_20130614_025657.jpg?dl=0
<daftykins> that's my full suspension one there
<MooDoo> nice
<zmoylan-pi> you can still break a chain on power acceleration and land on the crossbar using your funzone as a brake
<daftykins> it's an XC bike really though
<MooDoo> ooooouch
<daftykins> hehe yeah, unlikely when going down lotsa steps though
<daftykins> more likely to have a tumble :D
<zmoylan-pi> but it's the accidents you don't prepare for that happen
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/381x758qvwhsvpr/hospital.jpg?dl=0
<daftykins> oh i know (:
<daftykins> gotta run (ride) ttfn \o
<popey> MooDoo: what happened to http://www.paulmellors.net/the-time-has-come/ ?
<davmor3> Morning all
<davmor3> So funny thing happened last night the internet went pop, I reported it, still dead and their system doesn't know about the outage funny that right grrrrrrrrrrr
<knightwise> hey davmor3
<foobarry> "this item is  exclusively for Prime members. "
<foobarry> amazon are jerks
<davmor3> foobarry:thats okay I'm 19 :D
<knightwise> anybody else tried telegram via the command line ,
<MooDoo> popey: i had an error a min ago deleted most of my posts but not got round to restoring them from the bin  wordpress plugin #fail
<davmor3> So glad we bought this mifi for the caravan
<zmoylan-pi> better than the scrabble AND the travel scrabble :-)
<davmor3> zmoylan-pi:well it has come in useful today, of course I had to sacrifice my phone simcard for the cause but that is a small sacrifice when compared with no interwebz
<davmor3> Broadband Good service  and this with a big green tick is a LIE! on the status page the unplanned outage was reported at 20:25 last night and is still out meaning nobody in this area has internet
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<bashrc_> morning
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Earth Day! :-D
 * foobarry plays with some soil
<davmor3> JamesTait: I'm not happy no interwebz
<zmoylan-pi> well for above 0 levels of no...
<JamesTait> davmor3, IRC via avian carrier?
<zmoylan-pi> cannon launched frozen chickens for maximum impact packets
<brobostigon> morning JamesTait and bashrc_
<JamesTait> brobostigon, o/
<davmor3> JamesTait: sacrificed my phone sim into the mifi for internet, it works so I'm happier
<popey> davmor3: out of interest, what mifi do you have?
<davmor3> popey: unlocked TP-Link M5350
<davmor3> popey: from amazon about Â£35
<popey> any good?
<davmor3> popey: so far yes
 * popey adds to wishlist
<davmor3> popey: I only went for 3g cause at the caravan park 4g is spotty at best and non existent at worse.  3g however is rock solid and a full strength signal.
<popey> 3g is enough imo
 * zmoylan-pi gets by on 2g with opera mini on mobiles
<davmor3> popey:I'm going to try it on a hangout after I'll let you know how that goes :)
<popey> hah
<davmor3> popey: well you can do it on a phone on 3g so I see no reason why I can't :)  I might have to tone the setting down a little we'll see
<davmor3> popey: had to turn off HD video other than that seem to be handling it fine :)
<davmor2> Yay Interwebz are back
<zmoylan-pi> civilisation has been restored... bring on the cat videos....
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: pfff cat videos I only have time for those when testing :D
 * davmor2 goes back to testing
<zmoylan-pi> here, this will save some bandwidth :-) http://www.catgifpage.com/
<directhex_> let's see if i can create an ubuntu install usb just by copying the files to a usb stick
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: that's awesome :D
<zmoylan-pi> my work here is done... :-)
<DJones> Ah rubbish, anybody ever heard of a peer to peer networked app that won't actually work across a wireless network, developers claim it'll only run with a wired connection on Windows
<jpds> DJones: What kind of protocol is it using?
<DJones> carrier pigeon
<DJones> Something written in dark ages of Windows 3.0 I think, won't run on a server configured with domains (unless its windows server 2003), will only run if its installed on a standard desktop and everybody else connects to that machine
<DJones> Basically an accounts package that has multiple depots, but the depots have to have their own individual instance running at the depot, if head office want to see live data, we have to connect bia logmein to take control of a computer at the depot, it does upload the data overnight to a head office installation, but data is always 24 hours out of date
 * zmoylan-pi used a ftp client in dos to link locations like that in 90s :-)
<zmoylan-pi> 40 video shops spread across the country with sales numbers for head office
<awilkins> DJones, Is it an MTU thing
<awilkins> Wireless networks often have a smaller MTU than wired
<jpds> Why would an app care about the layers above it.
<DJones> awilkins: I've no idea, just a very poor system
<awilkins> The "Only runs on a desktop" thing is probably because it has  GUI and depends on UI events to work
<zmoylan-pi> or it's using some pre sql wacky database sub system...
<DJones> awilkins: Nah, can't even just put the data on the server
<awilkins> Heh, been there
<awilkins> Interface processes written in VB3 that only run on the desktop of a 32-bit machine
<DJones> Looks like it is ftp zmoylan-pi
<awilkins> And use Jet 2.5 databases
<zmoylan-pi> ah... jet...
 * zmoylan-pi casts ward stupidity
<DJones> I think it may be written using delphi
<zmoylan-pi> and the person has since moved on and noone understands how it works...? :-)
<DJones> Not even close, the guy behind it is still at the company
<DJones> No matter what we ask, we just get told, no it can't do that
<zmoylan-pi> hmmmmmm, when i was asked for an export data option by the mainframe boys i had it written by the time my boss had made it back to his desk :-D
<DJones> 3 months more and then we get our own cutom built application by internal developers
<DJones> Heh, I'm quite impressed that their base is in a place called "crapstone" though, suits the system perfectly
<brobostigon> i have had to temporerily stop pisg on my server, while i sort out some problems on it, so channel stats wont update for abit, to warn everyone.
<daftykins> diddledan: psst
<daftykins> you up?
<zmoylan-pi> say their name 3 times? :-)
<daftykins> ;]
<ali1234> what does "Ubuntu 15.04 desktop extends leadership of developer experience" mean?
<directhex_> it means someone got a bingo on their buzzword bingo card
#ubuntu-uk 2015-04-23
<knightwise> morning everyone
<diplo> Morning all
<bashrc> morning
<Guest73857> Good morning all; happy English Language Day! :-D
 * Guest73857 eyes his nick suspiciously.
<Laney> good old Guest73857
<directhex_> i miss Guest73857
<bashrc_> happy ubuntu release day
<directhex_> but i only just downloaded the beta! :'(
<Laney> just an apt upgrade away
<foobarry> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/mediatechnologyandtelecoms/digital-media/11556838/UK-set-top-box-maker-Pace-bought-by-US-firm-for-1.4bn.html
<foobarry> the register will probably have a souvenir pull out guide
<awilkins> Wow, Pace
<awilkins> I had one of the ISA modem cards.
<awilkins> Lovely bit of kit, none of your Winmodem rubbish
<foobarry> wow. metro are publishing "news" that are actually 8 month old reddit posts now
<foobarry> not even new ones
<foobarry> http://metro.co.uk/2015/04/21/is-this-the-ghost-of-a-samurai-soldier-standing-behind-a-little-girl-5160401/
<foobarry> turns out to be this http://www.reddit.com/r/UnexplainedPhotos/comments/2e60an/disturbing_photo_feedback_xpost_from_rghosts/
<bashrc_> churnalism?
<foobarry> also, its just a person standing behind her
<foobarry> which you can see more clearly inthe reddit link that they refer to but don't link to
<foobarry> he is wearing a light blue shirt
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<Hazed> good morning all.  does anyone know the release time for 15.04?
<Myrtti> afternoon UK time usually
<Myrtti> there is no set moment.
<Hazed> brilliant, thank you for clearing that up :)
<Myrtti> note: usually doesn't mean that it's guaranteed.
<Myrtti> for all I know it could be five minutes away
<Hazed> make sense
 * popey looks over at the release team
<popey> they don't seem too stressed :)
<Hazed> lol
<popey> beer at 17:30 apparently
<popey> so sometime before then
<Hazed> sounds good idea
<davmor2> popey: you off to Ye Olde London Town Today?
<popey> davmor2: am here, yes
<davmor2> popey: \o/ tell them not to get too drunk there is more work tomorrow
<popey> heh
<awilkins> !isitoutyet
<lubotu3`> Did I SAY it was out? Maybe if you would LISTEN once in a while this relationship would be healthier.
<awilkins> !isitinyet
<awilkins> Boo! Opportunity missed there
<directhex_> filthy.
<bashrc_> it is not out
<davmor2> So I got this tune stuck in my  head https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fy2indWyr74
<directhex_> so. w-series name speculation?
<directhex_> wistful wombat!
<davmor2> wasclin' wabbit
<zmoylan-pi> wary winkle
<awilkins> Rather more overt versions of Onanistic Ocelot?
<davmor2> wonderful wizbit
<davmor2> whopping willow
<awilkins> Whomping
<davmor2> whomping even
<awilkins> I think whoever manages JKR would whomp Canonicals butt for that
<davmor2> worried whippet
<davmor2> wobbly weeble is my favourite though
 * awilkins looks at list of South African mammals
<awilkins> "Waterbuck"
<deckchair_turpin> when they get to x the animals are limited a little
<davmor2> deckchair_turpin: get off my lawn with your deckchair
 * deckchair_turpin hums abide with me
 * popey thought that was someone else for a moment then.
<deckchair_turpin> annoying someone else in another channel... :-)
<awilkins> Xamarin is already taken
 * awilkins hears Transmission go *ding*
<awilkins> !isitout
<lubotu3`> Did I SAY it was out?  Maybe if you would LISTEN once in a while this relationship would be healthier.
<awilkins> Astonishing how many people still use Microtorrent
<awilkins> I heard it had gone all bloaty bloatware
 * Myrtti goes back to playing Cities Skylines while waiting for 15.04 to happen
<bashrc_> it is not out
<foobarry> do i need to chroot sftp if users can't login with ssh?
<foobarry> i think so
<awilkins> I remember a few years ago, you'd get kicked for saying it was out before it was officially announced, that still the case?
<foobarry> 4od app sucks
<foobarry> whatever its called noawadays
<foobarry> all4
<foobarry> they make you feel dirty and desperate for wanting to watch a programme
<popey> +1
<dogmatic69> what is the best option to share a folder from linux to windows?
<diplo> Depends how much sophistication you're after ?
<diplo> and desktop or cli
<dogmatic69> I want to have a git repo on test server, shared to windows so it can be opened in editor and edited
<diplo> If I just want to share a folder quickly from desktop I just rick click and share it
<dogmatic69> all the commite etc will happen on the server, literally just to edit files
<dogmatic69> and its server cli -> win desktop
<awilkins> Well, you could
<davmor2> dogmatic69: a usb pendrive?
<diplo> I do that via sftp myself, use winscp on my laptop, open with Sublime and Ctrl S and winscp saves it back
<awilkins> Does "Best" mean easiest?
<foobarry> smb ?
<foobarry> same lan?
<awilkins> Easiest is SMB / CIFS
<dogmatic69> best means easy / reliable
<davmor2> I'm still going with usb pendrive
<foobarry> depends on the user
<awilkins> All the software available in the repo or pre-installed, nothing to install on Winders box
<dogmatic69> lol
<dogmatic69> its php
<foobarry> owncloud?
<awilkins> Syncthing
<awilkins> Syncthing : like Dropbox but the NSA doesn't get a lookin
<dogmatic69> currently its the other way round, the repo is on windows and shared to linux but that is lame
<awilkins> Why's that lame? Do you want your website clients to be able to access your full source code history?
<dogmatic69> its dev server
<dogmatic69> windows keeps locking files and breaks ability to edit from the server / delete etc.
<dogmatic69> things like composer die because the files are locked
<davmor2> dogmatic69: right click on the, local network share. failing that, dropbox, sycnthing, bittorrent sync, USB PENDRIVE!!!!!
<davmor2> right click on the folder that should of read
<dogmatic69> davmor2:  usb wont work because its a virtual linux machine...
<davmor2> dogmatic69: most vms allow a shared folder between host and client
<dogmatic69> the host is a windows client, not the desktop used.
<dogmatic69> windows server sorry...
<davmor2> dogmatic69: yeap still most vm's as in the software that the client runs in can share a folder with the host
<davmor2> the client can then access it
<dogmatic69> davmor2:  the point is that nobody is using the windows server hosting the linux server so it would be pointless to share anything there.
<dogmatic69> I will try out smb
<davmor2> dogmatic69: it's a server just drop the folder in /home/<user> and ssh it
<awilkins> Does Ubuntu support bcache + full disk encryption in the installer yet?
<zleap> hi, are we expecting 15.04 to be out this week
<zleap> ?
<bigcalm> !isitoutyet
<lubotu3`> Did I SAY it was out? Maybe if you would LISTEN once in a while this relationship would be healthier.
<bigcalm> Awww
<bigcalm> I don't think that's a very nice response
<ChunkzZ> zleap, suppose to be today.
<zleap> ChunkzZ: thanks,  i did see something about it being some time soon
<zleap> ok will keep an eye out for news
<davmor2> directhex_: as for w release I'm still hanging in there for Wheres Wally
<directhex_> woeful wendigo
<directhex_> winter walrus!
<awilkins> Wet Wombat
<diddledan> wiotous wossy?
<diddledan> (ref: jonathan ross)
<diddledan> are we landing today or next thursday?
<diddledan> looks like it's due today according to the releaseschedule page
<davmor2> diddledan: it's released already
<diddledan> !isitoutyet
<lubotu3`> YES! ITS OUT: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-announce/2015-April/000195.html
<diddledan> oh so it is
<davmor2> diddledan: told you
<diddledan> smartass :-p
<davmor2> diddledan: no I can just read email headers :P
<diddledan> I've not checked my email yet today
<diddledan> head in the sand :-0p
<TheOpenSourcerer> Is it out yet?
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> not just me, see?
<diddledan> TheOpenSourcerer: yes
<TheOpenSourcerer> Not been on here for *ages*...
<TheOpenSourcerer> Is it? Oooh?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Must try upgrading at the weekend then.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Talking of the weekend... popey, czajkowski, AlanBell, shall we meet at the Cobbett for a pre-beerex snort?
<popey> yes
<TheOpenSourcerer> \o/
<TheOpenSourcerer> 5pm (ish)
<davmor2> popey: man your arm must hurt from all that twisting
<popey> hah
<popey> TheOpenSourcerer: ya
<TheOpenSourcerer> lol
<diddledan> davmor2: I'm impressed how long popey held out on that one
<popey> i am in two meetings too
<diddledan> zo/
<diddledan> oops
<diddledan> \o/
<diddledan> zo/ is walking like an egyptian?
<davmor2> diddledan: no it's more he has this psychic net awareness for the words beer and popey
<diddledan> :-)
<popey> \o/
<awilkins> What's the go-to for lightweight Ubuntu for old laptops? MATE, Xub, or Lub?
<davmor2> awilkins: depends on usage and age. x or l though
<czajkowski> TheOpenSourcerer: shall pass it onto Jon
<awilkins> Age? Of the hardware?
<davmor2> awilkins: yeah
<awilkins> For a moment thought "Age of the user... and whether they are addicted to Windows or not"
<popey> awilkins: MATE!
<awilkins> MATE for Winders addicts or for ageing hardware?
<awilkins> or both?
<TheOpenSourcerer> ttfn
<popey> both
<ali1234> for windows addicts unity is best, since they are used to bad user interfaces already :P
<awilkins> OOh, No.1 reason to upgrade to Vivid : the annoying black window bug
<awilkins> ali1234,  I actually like Unity
<awilkins> Esp. the HUDmenu
<ali1234> yeah my dad loves it too
<ali1234> he doesn't use HUD menu though, he doesn't even use normal menus
<awilkins> "rationalized 3rd party library managers"
<awilkins> Wootage!
<awilkins> Does that mean the packaged versions of 3rd party libmans behave like this, or ones you install from source etc do?
<ali1234> context?
<awilkins> "We also rationalized 3rd party library managers so that they all behave the same and don't overwrite and/or mix with system libraries. Developers don't have to worry about messing up up their installation if they want to install a pipy, npm, rubygem libraries."
<ali1234> oh. well python has been fixed in that regard since at least 14.04
<ali1234> for both pip and source installs
<awilkins> Mentioned in the context of Ubuntu Make
<awilkins> Which sounds cool
<awilkins> Because it can install Eclipse
<ali1234> oh ubuntu make? that's just a script that downloads things
<awilkins> Has an official mention in relnotes!
<ali1234> the way that works is by putting everything in folders in your home dir
<ali1234> at least that's how it used to work
<awilkins> this is how I usually use Eclipse
<awilkins> Install the packaged version for the deps
<ali1234> then it edits your .bashrc and adds paths
<awilkins> And then install the newest one by downloading and unpacking the tarball
<ali1234> it does install some things from packages, when it can
<ali1234> yeah dependencies mainly :)
<awilkins> Yarrrg, Can't believe that the packaged version of Eclipse for vivid is STILL 3.8.1
<ali1234> i found ubuntu-make to be a bit pointless, but i only tried it with android
<bigcalm> !isitoutyet
<lubotu3`> YES! ITS OUT: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-announce/2015-April/000195.html
<davmor2> awilkins: it is an easy way for devs to get the tools they need to develop for various platforms.  so ubuntu-make android would grab all the dev tools you need for android etc
<ali1234> basically all it does is download the sdk installer and unpack it
<ali1234> you still have to go through the whole process of opening the SDK manager and downloading all the SDK components
<awilkins> I think it's time for a fresh install TBH
<ali1234> also i find it very odd that umake doesn't appear to be able to install the ubuntu sdk
<awilkins> My /home partition is a bit cloggy
<awilkins> And I have to encrypt everything because our new security dude says so
<awilkins> What I want ; full disk encryption + bcache
<awilkins> Anyone know of a guide that combines both or am I going to have to write one?
<Myrtti> No new release found ;___;
<awilkins> http://releases.ubuntu.com/15.04/
<Myrtti> myrtti@eeyore:~$ sudo do-release-upgradeChecking for a new Ubuntu release
<Myrtti> No new release found
<Myrtti> I'm just whining
<Myrtti> nevermind me
<daftykins> diddledan: heyup, are you a drupal fiend? my mate has this site he dev'd on his Windows box at home, but on throwing it up on his hosting - if you log in, his menu disappears XD
<awilkins> Myrtti, are you on 14.04?
<diddledan> funky
<daftykins> diddledan: works perfectly on my bytemark VPS however
<diddledan> is this the admin menu?
<ali1234> case sensitive filename issues?
<diddledan> along the top of the page?
<Myrtti> awilkins: nope
<daftykins> nah not the very top, just his own navigation menu that's part of the page
<Myrtti> ... not that I know of...
<Myrtti> or AM I
<daftykins> lsb_release -d
<Myrtti> no I'm not.
<daftykins> all the cool kids run LTS
<awilkins> I'm running LTS. But since I have to reinstall anyway...
<diddledan> ok. possibly the "block" got messed up or removed - try as adming going to "structure->blocks" and see if the menu block isw in the right place
<diddledan> "for all evilness requirements, just add ming"
<daftykins> diddledan: ty sir, shall pass that on. would it be of any use if you could take a quick glance at the page? or would it require login and all that jazz to really understand?
<diddledan> I can have a nosey, but probably can't tell without being admin
<daftykins> that can be easily arranged ^_^
<ali1234> how is the customization implemented?
<Myrtti> yay new ubuntu \o/
<ali1234> is it a theme, plugin, or just hacked wp core?
<diddledan> ali1234: it's drupal :-p
<ali1234> oh snap
<ali1234> then i have no idea
<ali1234> for some reason i read that as wordpress
<diddledan> teehee
<diddledan> wishful thinking~?
<ali1234> yeah probably
<daftykins> i did try to get this mate to buy a wordpress theme since i understand setting it up
<ali1234> i don't understand how wordpress got "most feared technology" over drupal and joomla
<daftykins> but he enjoys learning web dev so he felt like giving it a stab himself ;) despite my warning of issues...
<ali1234> maybe because nobody uses drupal and joomla
<diddledan> I think because drupal and joomla are actually difficult to work people tend to leave it to professionals whereas they feel that they can fiddle with wordpress and thus more people hate it because they don't understand enough about what they're doing and therefore it crashes around their earsw
<daftykins> :D
<diddledan> drupal devs seem to be paid more than an equivalent wordpress dev :-(
<ali1234> that is largely because drupal is designed to maximize consultancy fees
<daftykins> this mate had the idea that wordpress might end up limiting him, whereas drupal might be capable of it all
<ali1234> ironically drupal is capable of almost nothing out of the box
<daftykins> i tried to suggest his inexperience might mean security woes or drama in the future :P
<ali1234> it's basically a platform that can be used to sell extensions that do what the client wants
<diddledan> well done:-)
<daftykins> hmm my Nexus 4 is offering me android 5.1 as of last night
<diddledan> ooh
<ali1234> don't upgrade, 5.1 is a lemon
<diddledan> lemon sherbert?
<diddledan> (that's a dessert, right? :-p)
<daftykins> to be honest as directhex_ once described it, android has been going all Windows on me since i installed 5.0 anyway
<daftykins> normally i do a factory reset for new versions, but i didn't so far and have been enjoying all kinds of quirks
<ali1234> you already have 5.0? well, 5.1 isn't really any worse
<directhex_> moop?
<ali1234> might as well upgrade then
<daftykins> directhex_: android as a flakey Windows going wrong as time goes on :>
<daftykins> heh yeah
<directhex_> well, it does!
<directhex_> win98!
<diddledan> ctrl+alt+del?
<ali1234> unlike win98 you can't wipe and reinstall to fix it
<ali1234> you have to flash back to an unsupported and insecure image, or buy a new phone
<directhex_> http://www.windowscentral.com/sites/wpcentral.com/files/postimages/15741/lumia900win98.png
<diddledan> heh, linux voice june arrived today - their headline article is misnamed: "HACK THE WEB" <-- shouldn't WEB be Planet?
<daftykins> i would hope so
<daftykins> missing out on a great reference otherwise
<diddledan> they got an interview with larry wall. I wonder if perl6 is every going to arrive as a separate entity or if the ideas are just gonna get made into modules and put in the CPAN for perl5
<diddledan> the perl6 switch syntax has been in CPAN for perl5 use since almost before perl6 was an idea
<diddledan> instead of "switch $foo { case 'bar': }" you get "given $foo { when 'bar': }"
<diddledan> I don't get why they changed it tbh
<daftykins> keeps you on your toes
 * Myrtti checks the calendar
<davmor2> diddledan: it's a three stage plan, First the web, then the cars, then the world muhahahahahahahahahahahaha!!! doesn't sound so sinister with that kinda laugh at the end :D
<daftykins> XD
<diddledan> Myrtti: is it the end of the world yet?
<Myrtti> yup
<Myrtti> I hope that perl error wasn't something that breaks things Badly
<MartijnVdS> Perl! What error?
<Myrtti> new Ubuntu!
<Myrtti> MartijnVdS: sadly I couldn't get a copypaste of it
<diddledan> don't you love how politicians like to tell you about the affairs of state but not about the state of their numerous affairs
<diddledan> :-p
<diddledan> scandalous!
<diddledan> you wouldn't catch me having an affair when I'm PM
<diddledan> (I'm still single, so an affair can't be had until that situation is remedied first :-p)
<daftykins> ;)
<diddledan> netflix are pushing 40Gbit/s through freebsd boxes (each box pushing 40Gbit/s
<diddledan> ref: http://www.jupiterbroadcasting.com/81017/business-as-usual-bsd-now-86/
<daftykins> Costa have emailed me to say they're resetting all passwords!
<daftykins> *gasp*
<zleap> daftykins: has someone hacked them  then
<davmor2> hahahahaha
<daftykins> We are writing to let you know that we recently identified a small number of Coffee Club card members (around 0.02%) with some unusual activity on their accounts.
<daftykins> As a result we've conducted a full security review and in the interim, removed the ability to access your Coffee Club account online.
<davmor2> I like how are minds go straight to they must of been hacked :D
<daftykins> pretty logical conclusion :>
<zleap> yeah
<DJones> Ah well,that was smooth and fast upgrade & working with no  issues
<Myrtti> someone's nvidia got hosed on the upgrade...
<Myrtti> bah
<ali1234> didn;t you have to install some PPA to make it work?
<Myrtti> there is a reason why my personal laptop has only nvidia...
<Myrtti> er, Intel
<davmor2> Myrtti: oh is that so it breaks nearly as often as nvidia and amd?
<ali1234> as long as you only have one or the other you are pretty much sorted
<daftykins> :D
<Myrtti> having both is the road to distruction
<Myrtti> it seems
<ali1234> indeed
<Myrtti> I have only Intel. He has Intel and Nvidia.
<davmor2> Myrtti: so do I I have no issues
<davmor2> Myrtti: but then I do fresh installs :D
<Myrtti> davmor2: that's a non-answer
<Myrtti> "I have Cheese. He has Cheese and Ham" "So do I"
<Myrtti> ok.
<Myrtti> my Venn diagram says you have atleast Intel then
<daftykins> somebody installed nvidia drivers inappropriately!
 * daftykins tuts
<davmor2> Myrtti: I have a Prime setup so intel and nvidia.  I have no issues with it but then I do fresh installs rather than upgrades
<Myrtti> yeah, well, I suggested that we'd try to upgrade first so we don't have to futz around with the Broadcom wifi driver, and see if it works.
<Myrtti> and if it gets hosed beyond all recognition, then do a clean install
<davmor2> Myrtti: because he has both he can just uninstall the nvidia binary and fall back to the intel and then sort things out then install the nvidia drivers
<davmor2> Myrtti: it might be that the ppa got disabled during the upgrade and he got reverted to older not working nvidia drivers
<Myrtti> yeah, the problem was for a moment to figure out how to make lightdm not restart every three seconds
<Myrtti> then how to get to grub menu
<Myrtti> then how to get the laptop to use Intel instead of Nvidia
<daftykins> does that by default with all nvidia packages purged
<diddledan> it annoys me that the grub menu can't be accessed with some weird keypress that I haven't worked out
<diddledan> without**
<daftykins> unless it's one where you can select which to use in the BIOS, but they're in the minority
<davmor2> diddledan: right shift key
<diddledan> oh, _RIGHT_ shift!?!
<diddledan> well why can't it just be any shift?!!!!!1!
<daftykins> is this on a mac?
<davmor2> diddledan: just keep tapping at it once the boot splash for the bios/uefi disappears
<davmor2> diddledan: I don't make up the rules :)
<ali1234> it's left shift isn;t it?
<ali1234> and you just hold it down
<ali1234> the whole point of using shift for this is it doesn't cause a keyboard stuck error when held down, so it requires no delay
<Myrtti> Esc was the magic grub key in this case
<diddledan> see how difficult it is?! ali1234 uses left shift, davmor2 uses right, and I can't get any damn thing to work
<diddledan> I've tried esc in the past, too
<diddledan> and ctrl
<diddledan> and numerous others
<diddledan> windows is just as bad at this concept
<ali1234> USB keyboard?
<diddledan> or should that be "ubuntu is as bad as windows at this"
<davmor2> diddledan: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RecoveryMode so just shift key it appears
<ali1234> maybe you don't have it plugged in to the magic USB boot mode port?
<diddledan> o_O
<daftykins> or your BIOS has legacy USB support ruining your day
<ali1234> or you disabled legacy USB support?
<davmor2> or your keyboard hates you
<ali1234> yeah could be one of those gaming keyboards that isn't a real HID device
<davmor2> maybe someone hates you and switched your control and shift key ribbons, but why I'd travel all that way is beyond me ;)
<daftykins> :D
<davmor2> I got gremlins you fed the mogwai after midnight didn't you
<davmor2> I got it, even
<diddledan> you sussed!
<davmor2> diddledan: thanks for playing the game it makes it much more fun :)
<diddledan> oh damn you! now I've losty
<diddledan> --y
<diddledan> and also everyone in here has now lost the game!
<daftykins> i never paid attention to that one :P
<daftykins> there's no inherent reason to care :D
<diddledan> that just makes you lose harder :-p
<davmor2> daftykins: http://bit.ly/1deDV7O
<daftykins> yeah but childish
<davmor2> daftykins: but fun
<daftykins> not to my mind :D
<davmor2> daftykins: I mean I know diddledan just lost again if he followed the link and who can't follow a random link when it is pasted there for others to see ;)
 * diddledan drools: https://twitter.com/WTFitsKatie/status/589399853110800384
<daftykins> nice
<diddledan> follow-up: https://twitter.com/WTFitsKatie/status/589544002648670208
<daftykins> bit excessive on the cable ties though.
<ali1234> i always wonder what happens when they need to replace a cable
<ali1234> does someone have to remove every single cable tie from the entire rack and then put them all back again?
<daftykins> :>
<ali1234> or do they just let it get messy and then tidy it up when it gets too bad?
<ali1234> i know which one i would do
<daftykins> you would definitely think that there must be a better way to achieve what's pictured if they all just need to be like they are
<intrbiz> all nicely labeled too, thats what I like to see
<intrbiz> for neat cables, never be affraid to undo all your cable ties and redo them, the velco ties are well worth it
<diddledan> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-32422193
<diddledan> I've got an urge to binge-watch star warts
<diddledan> maybe watch some spaceballs too
<daftykins> ^_^
<diddledan> payday tomoz
<diddledan> wonder whether I should order me some hdds
<diddledan> though rent comes first I guess :-p
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> what storage are we upgrading?
 * daftykins watches the new install / upgrade woes flood into #ubuntu
<diddledan> it'll be on my NAS
<diddledan> I say "NAS" it's a freenas-running pc
<daftykins> ah-har
<daftykins> eh close enough :>
<m0nkey_> wait.. diddledan, you run freenas?
<diddledan> indeed
<m0nkey_> let me guess, some desktop PC, lacking ECC. lol
<diddledan> yup
<m0nkey_> for shame
<diddledan> :-p
<m0nkey_> don't ever go to #freenas unless you're running recommended hardware :)
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> are they zealots?
 * m0nkey_ pets his E3 Xeon w/16GB ECC RAM.
<m0nkey_> they can be
 * diddledan drools all over it
<m0nkey_> as long as you're not an ass about taking advise
<m0nkey_> transcode a movie in 3 mins on that sucker
<diddledan> yikes
<diddledan> that's a beast
<m0nkey_> plex runs on it
<diddledan> ditto
<m0nkey_> youre not sharing anything :P
<m0nkey_> let me see your movies and tv shows
<m0nkey_> says you unavailable
<diddledan> :-(
<diddledan> hmm
<m0nkey_> you got your port open?
<diddledan> should have
<diddledan> lemmedouble check
<m0nkey_> you see mine?
<diddledan> yup I've got yours fine
<m0nkey_> under Server > Remote Access .. it says fully accessible?
<diddledan> hmm, it's not available from outside
<m0nkey_> forward your port :P
<m0nkey_> or use upnp
<diddledan> aha, I might be pointing to thewrong ip
<diddledan> there we go
<m0nkey_> i see it now
<m0nkey_> just dont go nuts
<diddledan> :-p
<diddledan> are you capped?
<m0nkey_> uploads are not
<diddledan> aah ok
<m0nkey_> just limited bandwidth
<m0nkey_> all i ask that if youre using it during my day, to go easy. i sometimes work from home and need the bandwidth
<m0nkey_> you need more movies :P
<diddledan> indeed :-p
<diddledan> I'm working on it :-D
<m0nkey_> 158 on mine so far
<m0nkey_> sadly, only a few good ones lol
#ubuntu-uk 2015-04-24
<diddledan> morning
<knightwise> morning diddledan
<diddledan> allo
<knightwise> how are you doin
<diddledan> good good here
<knightwise> same here , working on some lectures I'm gonna have to give next month
<diddledan> ooh
<knightwise> One about the use of cloud solutions for the construction industy and one about the use of social media for small retail business.
<knightwise> always a challenge to make the presentations very 'practical'
<diddledan> sounds interesting
<diddledan> the social media one would intrigue me
<diddledan> I have a bit of a soft spot for retail-related issues
<knightwise> I have a background in social studies so my approach to the social media stuff from the communications point of view.
<diddledan> nice
<knightwise> you only control the intention of your communication, never the interpretation
<knightwise> I always say : an IT guy telling you about social media is like a construction worker telling you about ballet
<diddledan> heh
<knightwise> and retail ... Well that is a challenge :)
<knightwise> A lot of the freelance consulting I do has to do with retail (and the hard times they are having)
<knightwise> And its more then pure IT consulting . Sometimes its a mix between sociology, economics and IT ... :) Challenging stuff but oh-so-interesting
<knightwise> So i'm using Freemind to map out the presentations
<knightwise> then I use post its to organise my slides
<knightwise> and then I make the slide presentation and look for images and examples
<knightwise> all cross platform .. except for keynote
<knightwise> :)
<diddledan> \o/
<knightwise> just wish i had some command line tool to do some rough outlining
<knightwise> i love the CLI for the pure pleasure that it is distraction free
<Azelphur> Any openvpn wizards? I've followed this https://www.digitalocean.com/community/tutorials/how-to-set-up-an-openvpn-server-on-ubuntu-14-04 and got openvpn running, I can connect to it using network-manager, it connects successfully but I can't get any traffic through it, all traffic is dropped at the first hop and never makes it to the internet :(
<knightwise> I use sshuttle for my vpn :( Wish i could help you out
<diddledan> Azelphur: there's a sysctl and you might need to tweak your nat firewall table
<diddledan> net.ip_forward?
<diddledan> something like that
<davmor2> Morning all
<diddledan> the sysctl is commented-out in /etc/sysctl.conf
<Azelphur> diddledan, pretty sure I did that,  it's in that document
<Azelphur> yea, /proc/sys/net/ipv4/ip_forward is 1
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<diddledan> what does iptables -tnat -L FORWARD say?
<Azelphur> brobostigon, afternoon :p
<brobostigon> morning Azelphur :)
<Azelphur> diddledan, no chain/target/match by that name
<diddledan> aha
<Azelphur> brobostigon, well, 01:22 :P
<Azelphur> diddledan, I used ufw, does ufw modify iptables rules?
<diddledan> you don't have the relevant iptables module loaded then, mayhaps
<Azelphur> interesting
<brobostigon> Azelphur: good point, :)
<diddledan> yes ufw is a front-end to iptables
<Azelphur> wonder what module I would need
<Azelphur> if that is even the problem
<diddledan> you want the nat module (I forget what it's called)
<diddledan> ipt_nat maybe?
<Azelphur> how would I load it?
<diddledan> modprobe
<Azelphur> don't know my iptables foo :P
<Azelphur> looks like I already have iptable_nat loaded
<foobarry> https://community.openvpn.net/openvpn/wiki/BridgingAndRouting
<Azelphur> yay, another massive long doc to read lol
<Azelphur> I think I'll call it a night and attack it again tomorrow maybe
<foobarry> scroll down to iptables rules
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Friday and happy Teach Your Children to Save Day! :-D
<Azelphur> yea, I'll wanna read through that first though since I really don't wanna loose access to this machine while I'm in LA :)
<diddledan> save the world?
<diddledan> save the whales?
<diddledan> save the rainforests?
<diddledan> save the last dance?
<Azelphur> In thanks for your assistance, I present to you a photo I took today of Americas hilarious attempt to do Fish and Chips. https://www.dropbox.com/s/nsyljlgcqwkr1om/2015-04-23%2021.15.58.jpg?dl=0
<diddledan> err
<foobarry> is that real
<Azelphur> yes, it is real
<foobarry> so so wrong
<diddledan> did you request it or was it actually a menu item?
<Azelphur> it was actually a menu item, my boss requested it
<diddledan> that's just .. no words!
<diddledan> what flavour were the crisps?
<JamesTait> diddledan, save the cheerleader!
<Azelphur> lmao
<Azelphur> diddledan, not sure lol
<diddledan> JamesTait: you, sir, deserve to win the internet with that response
<Azelphur> This was in Dave and Busters, Irvine Spectrum, CA, USA :P
<JamesTait> diddledan, happy to be of service. :-P
<foobarry> did you educate them as to the error of teir ways?
<diddledan> in related news, I hear they're doing a spinoff of heros?
<foobarry> oh no
<foobarry> is it called x-men?
<Azelphur> foobarry, no I just sat there giggling
<JamesTait> diddledan, I didn't know that. Do you have details? I might start watching TV again for that.
<Azelphur> anyway bedtime, adios folks
<diddledan> JamesTait: last I heard they'd signed up the guy with the horn-rimmed specs (noah?)
<diddledan> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heroes_Reborn_(miniseries)
<diddledan> mini being 13 episodes
<foobarry> there is nothing new in US TV
<foobarry> same old churn
<JamesTait> diddledan, right, Noah. Might be worth a watch.
<JamesTait> diddledan, thanks for that.
<JamesTait> foobarry, I wholeheartedly agree, but I think you can drop the US part - there's just nothing new in TV lately.
<foobarry> i watched nathan barley yesterday for the first time
<foobarry> i was off work unwell
<foobarry> it didn't help
<foobarry> something about it made me feel sick
<JamesTait> diddledan, the 16-second trailer doesn't give anything away, does it? :-P
<diddledan> nope
<foobarry> have you seen that game called after the rapture
<foobarry> done by the dear esther ppl
<knightwise> currently watching Arrow and just finished elementary
<knightwise> its the only superhero thing I can stand
<diddledan> I know lucy liu doubles as a secret agent in charlie's angels but I'm not sure even with that history qualifies as elementary being superhero
<diddledan> :-p
<knightwise> mental superhero :)
<knightwise> I watched the first episode of daredevil
<knightwise> not impressed
<diplo> I didn't mind it
<knightwise> I never liked daredevill either so .. it might be that
<ujjain> is there anything I can do to prevent mucus production? it seems just crazy right now, so much, i have a cold obviously, but have to clean my nose eveyr 5min
<popey> there's medications you can take to dry your nose
<davmor2> ujjain: it might be hayfever
<ujjain> I don't know, I think I was too opstimistic going outside
<ujjain> not dressed too much, seeing sun
<ujjain> I get colds so easily
<davmor2> ujjain: try some 1 a day antihistamine
<ujjain> do they sell that in a supermarket?
<popey> yes
<davmor2> ujjain: yeap just look for the hayfever tablets,  there are 2 types loza<something>10 mg and citrizine-<something> 10mg as the active ingredient they are pretty cheap so I would get a pack of each to figure out which is the one that works best for you.
<davmor2> ujjain: just one a day though
<ujjain> yeah sure,
<ujjain> we have a tesco near work I think, i'll search for it and try to get something like that, just 1 yeah
<davmor2> ujjain: cetirizine and loratadine are the 2 chemicals
<davmor2> I was close
<ujjain> http://www.tesco.com/groceries/Product/Details/?id=262736984
<davmor2> ujjain: you might want to look at this and see if it matches your symptoms though http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allergic_rhinitis
<davmor2> ujjain: that the type yes
<ujjain> I don't get outside much, I do have colds very often,
<davmor2> ujjain: hayfever gives you the same kinda symptoms as a cold but it just keeps lasting and tends to be worse on dry days and windy days, rainy days will lower the pollen count,  It tends to kick in now and last till september-ish
<ujjain> thanks by the way for thinking a long
<ujjain> well, it's just that I woke up today and yesterday at few times having to clean my nose, bit tricky sleeping again and now will spend 2-3 days traveling
<ujjain> so if I could do anything to relief it, would be great
<ujjain> the volume of mucus is insane, clean nose, reproduction very high
<davmor2> ujjain: try it, you'll know within an hour or so if it has worked
<ujjain> http://www.tesco.com/groceries/product/details/?id=282027318 or	http://www.tesco.com/groceries/Product/Details/?id=262736984
<ujjain> Loratadine, the least potent, but dirt cheap. Cetirizine, almost as cheap, more potent, also good in colds etc., but more sedative. Fexofenadine, potent, least sedative, but the most expensive (for now).
<ujjain> ok, on my way to tesco for cetrizine
<ujjain> cheers and thanks davmor2
<knightwise> grrr .. finding a good cloud-based app to do mindmaps and that IS cross compatible with multiple operating systems is hard :)
<davmor2> knightwise: https://www.mindmup.com/#m:new don't know if it any use
<davmor2> knightwise: I think this is the one I was looking for though https://www.mindmeister.com/
<knightwise> yep took a look at mindmup . Its pretty ok :) I found out how to save the documents in google drive
<knightwise> mindmeister has a good mobile client
<knightwise> but you can only make about 2 mindmaps with them
<knightwise> i'm currently working on 4 different presentations/workshops so ...
<zmoylan-pi> well you could have all 4 mind maps centred around you as a focal point in one BIG mind map :-)
<davmor2> knightwise: mindmeister is the one I'd used previously I guess you have to pay for more than 2 then right?
<knightwise> correct :) ... And i'm too much of a scrooge for that :p
<davmor2> knightwise: well these guys have to keep their staff paid some how ;)
<zmoylan-pi> post-its and close all the windows and turn off any fans for the cheap version...
<davmor2> knightwise: imgurl is free, just take photos/screenshots of the mind maps and post them there ;)
<knightwise> davmor2: erm ... they are my intellectual copyright :)
<knightwise> i can also just take screenshots and keep them on local storage .
<knightwise> the mind maps are the "scaffolding" for the eventual presentations
<davmor2> knightwise: then pay and protect it damn it ;)
<knightwise> LOL :
<knightwise> I have figured out how to do it with mindmup
<knightwise> i save them on my google drive and open them from there
<zmoylan-pi> but that would be such a precedent. probably need to go and pay for winzip if you did that... :-)
<davmor2> knightwise: fair enough :)
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: and then next the operating system that you use
 * zmoylan-pi stands up and says 'i'm a freeloading gobdaw and proud of it!!' :-)
<knightwise> That WOULD shock the internets
<knightwise> paying for winzip !
<diddledan> pkzip ftw!
<diddledan> I wonder why nobody has released a zip program called "zippy zip zip"
<popey> i found an old cd backup I'd burned in 1997, which contained all collection of compression tools
<popey> arj, lharc, pkzip, pkarc etc
<diddledan> arj and lharc, now those are esoteric
<zmoylan-pi> first one i used was pak
<davmor2> popey: no cpio?
<diddledan> cpio is still useful for initrds
<popey> no, i didnt have cpio or tar back then
<davmor2> popey: slacker ;)
<diddledan> yey for issue reply - I wrote: "please test the kahunas out of this - while it seems to be working for me, I'm unconvinced due to the relative ease it seemed to be to get it to do <feature> - I'm perfectly willing to accept that I'm a genius though ;-)."
<zmoylan-pi> i suspect if i search this system i'll find pkzip 2.04g exe somewhere on it... :-)
<knightwise> Winrar ftw Ã¨
<awilkins> Bah : lvmcache doesn't work on root partition (well, it does, but you can never boot it again...)  : https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lvm2/+bug/1423796
<lubotu3`> Ubuntu bug 1423796 in lvm2 (Ubuntu) "Unable to mount lvmcache root device at boot time" [High,Confirmed]
<foobarry> i thought chrome was sandboxed and never crashed the whole app? thats gubbins
<zmoylan-pi> hmm dropbox now seem to want me to sign in just to download a file from link sent.  that's... annoying
<foobarry> almost as bad as pinterest
<zmoylan-pi> enough to make me stop using the
<zmoylan-pi> *them
<davmor2> ujjain: how are you feeling now?
<ujjain> my nose is clearer, still high mocus production, but it's better
<davmor2> \o/
<ujjain> hehe thanks
<diddledan> yey, pay's gone-in
<diddledan> I has money
<diddledan> y'all aren't getting any of it tho! :-p
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: aww pwease
<MartijnVdS> *puppy-dog eyes*
 * diddledan sets aboutpaying bills
<zmoylan-pi> and taking MartijnVdS to vet?
<foobarry> hello MartijnVdS don't hear from you much nowadays
<foobarry> new job?
<MartijnVdS> lots of busy at work
<MartijnVdS> yeah, new job since.. 1.5 years now 8-)
<diddledan> phoo that's the accountancy stuff done
<diddledan> doing the books is a pain
<daftykins> :(
<daftykins> that reminds me, i'm still in denial about doing last years tax return
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> do you get until january to file it?
<daftykins> well, they've not actually finalised 2013's yet =/
<daftykins> our gov is majorly behind
<daftykins> i think they usually say April odd
<diddledan> on the mainland we have tax-year ending somewhen around the first week of april and then for self-assessment income tax you have until january 31st to file your return
<zmoylan-pi> you couldn't expect accountants to do paperwork with christmas party hangover and photocopiers still broken from same party :-)
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi: yeah photocopier breakage is commonplace I hear, due to bottom-scanning
<zmoylan-pi> and people are getting bigger
<zmoylan-pi> and booze is getting cheaper
<daftykins> ;)
<daftykins> surely it isn't...
<diddledan> tories just reduce beer tax
<diddledan> reduced**
<zmoylan-pi> well if you count the toilet duck knockoffs at aldi and lidl :-)
<daftykins> heh, those shops don't exist down here
<daftykins> i was really blown away stepping into one in Portsmouth though, feels like you're walking into somewhere in Europe
<davmor2> daftykins: wash your mouth out ;)
<diddledan> I visited spain back around 1999 and one shop had straw on the floor
<diddledan> I think they decided against normal flooring
<zmoylan-pi> you walk in for some cornflakes and leave with a cheap arc welder as well :-)
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi: I'm not sure that's what it's meant for
<zmoylan-pi> yeah, i don't like their knock off cornflakes either :-D
<diddledan> I mean yes technically the extension cord can be used to weld things due to it's shoddy craftmanship but it's not actually a real arc0welder
<daftykins> XD
<awilkins> Ok : trying to set up a VM with both  i) LUKS and ii) lvmcache
<awilkins> Have a feeling I'm layering it the wrong way
<awilkins> What I'm doing at present is installing Vivid with encryption on, then applying lvmcache
<awilkins> It refuses to boot
<awilkins> Forming a plan
<bashrc> upgraded to 15.04 final release, but wifi now seems to be dropping out at random
<bashrc> the driver is rt61pci
<awilkins> Whaaat.
<awilkins> Installed Synaptic in 15.04. The quick filter box has gone.
 * awilkins has a big strop
<awilkins> Oh, ok, an apt-get update and a restart has fixed it
<awilkins> *phew*
<elfy> lol
<elfy> I remember thinking that a couple of cycles ago
<awilkins> I was thinking "WHat have those crazy GNOME devs done now?"
<awilkins> SIMPLIFIED UI
<awilkins> IT'S FOR YOUR OWN GOOD
<daftykins> :D
<awilkins> Ok, so trying to do lvmcache / dm-cache on no-encryption Ubuntu didn't work either
<awilkins> So I'm doing something wrong
<awilkins> Following the instructions for Debian Jessie that people helpfully posted like this one : http://www.bradfordembedded.com/2015/03/lvmcache/
<awilkins> Oh, ok
<awilkins> "Incompatible libdevmapper and kernel driver"
<bashrc> trying a different wifi adaptor, rt73usb, otherwise it's annoying to have the network drop out every few minues
<bashrc> only seems to happen on 15.04
<davmor2> awilkins: you are following a debian plan and expecting it to just work on Ubuntu how crazy are you ;)
<bashrc> well ubuntu is just debian with some fancy UI :)
<bashrc> heh https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z1m71msel2Q
<bashrc> it's not rolling release afaik
<diddledan> bashrc: I really despise those videos
<daftykins> diddledan: you're gonna love this, hostpapa got back to my mate about the cookie.js file
<diddledan> oh yeah?
<daftykins> they're asking for... *drumroll* his home IP to unblock via mod_security or some such 0o
<diddledan> how will that help for random visitors?
<daftykins> indeed. plus we're on dynamic IPs over here
<daftykins> i'm starting to think he should move to a competent host / VPS
<diddledan> does everyone who wants to see his site have to know ahead of time to tell hostpapa that they're dropping-by?
<daftykins> only if they want to log in and see the menu it seems :D
<diddledan> craycray
<diddledan_> t'other pc is going down in a mo for yesterday evening's win10 build install
<daftykins> ooh-err
<bashrc> well the network is still up, I suspect there may be some kernel driver snafu with my other adaptor
 * bashrc resumes battle with emacs
<diddledan> is it april the 1st? http://mysteriousuniverse.org/2015/04/nasa-may-have-accidentally-developed-a-warp-drive/
<ali1234> why does "ubuntu-bug krita" report a bug against calligra?
<ali1234> what even is calligra?
<diddledan_> calligra is a drawing prog?
<elfy> kde office suite afaik
<diddledan_> and we're in the reboot loop
<diddledan_> (win10 install)
<diddledan_> "your pc needs to restart several times.........."
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> with the circular %?
<diddledan_> yup
<diddledan_> "sit back and relax"
<daftykins> lul mates hosting co. came back again "please give us your IP to check and disable the rules"
<daftykins> they won't even explain themselves 0o
<diddledan_> they suck
<daftykins> i think he's understanding why he's paying so little now
<diddledan_> it seems to be the sanest option to find a small outfit who'll admin a vps for you which is entirely dedicated to you
<ali1234> what do you mean "explain themselves"
<ali1234> it's a very simple request
<daftykins> as to why they're blocking a single .js file on my mates site
<daftykins> it 404s when you try to view it :)
<ali1234> url?
<daftykins> you not seen a 404 before? :P
<ali1234> no
<diddledan_> failwhale
<daftykins> http://test2.multilingualhub.com/misc/jquery.cookie.js
<diddledan_> it really is there
<diddledan_> we've verified that the file exists (well, daftykins did)
<daftykins> so what i'm saying is his host does not explain why they block a single file
<ali1234> they don't
<ali1234> it's mod_security
<ali1234> they told you that
<daftykins> i feel like you're just slicing hairs really
<daftykins> and oddly they're asking my mate for his home IP which isn't going to solve much for someone on dynamic
<diddledan_> or random bypassers
<ali1234> they want to whitelist him to see if it fixes the problem
<diddledan_> it's a public file whose lack of oading breaks the site
<ali1234> they want to whitelist him in mod_security which is part of drupal and therefore technically not their problem
<daftykins> i don't see why it's setup to be blocked at all
<diddledan_> mod_security is NOT part of drupal
<diddledan_> mod_security is an apache thing
<ali1234> seems to me that they've gone above and beyond to try to solve the problem in the software that your mate chose, and all you can do is slag them off for it?
<ali1234> diddledan so it is
<daftykins> *blink*
<ali1234> then i guess their site is just plain broken
<daftykins> not sure why you're so quick to defend them
<ali1234> same reason that you're quick to attack them?
<daftykins> well no because there's been a lengthy to and fro between him and the host already
<ali1234> but probably because i have too much experience dealing with the mess caused by people installing CMS systems that they have no idea how to use
<daftykins> you're attempting to judge on limited information which is a little strange to be honest
<daftykins> heh, well that's a given here because he is new to it and i did warn against this approach
<ali1234> https://www.drupal.org/node/522646 lol
<ali1234> get a better host
<daftykins> heh
<daftykins> given it's a mates issue i hadn't even considered searching about it, in fact he'd already posted the issue to their support forum afaiui
<ali1234> if you're feeling bored give them your IP and then complain it doesn't work on your friends computer
<ali1234> repeat until you or they get fed up
<zmoylan-pi> the people they hire on tech support these days aren't smart enough to get fed up.  otherwise they'd never show up to work :-P
<diddledan_> so the upstream fixed it 4 years ago. wtf out-dated operating system and ruleset version are hostpapa running?!
<daftykins> :D
<diddledan_> I'm betting they're using Red Hat 7.3
<daftykins> ali1234: well, thanks for sharing that :D
<daftykins> hmm i could ask him to ask on the next reply
<ali1234> diddledan i doubt they paid for it. it will be centos
<diddledan_> (7.3 is circa 1999)
<diddledan_> ali1234: no, they're running pre-centos
<diddledan_> :-p
<ali1234> i kind of doubt that too
<diddledan_> teehee
<ali1234> did upstream (mod_security) really fix it?
<ali1234> drupal can't fix it, they can only provide a workaround
<diddledan_> according to that thread
<ali1234> i can't see where it says that
<diddledan_> https://www.drupal.org/node/522646#comment-3593238
<ali1234> every single offsite link in the thread is broken
<ali1234> yeah that 404s
<daftykins> trust him to find an issue tbh :D
<diddledan_> well 5 years is a long time to keep a url in-sync (though I'm a proponent of always ensuring urls point in the right place via redirects on obsolete addresses)
<diddledan_> so I went ahead and plundered my piggy bank for 3 new 3TB drives
<diddledan_> couldn't quite justify 4TB ones
<diddledan_> plus. amazon were out of stock of 4TB REDs
<diddledan_> gonna have a fun sunday afternoon replacing one drive at a time
<diddledan_> (I went for the delivery tomorrow)
<daftykins> :D
<diddledan_> I accidentally matched them with a set of ECC rams, per m0nkey_'s insistence
<daftykins> haha
<zmoylan-pi> now you just need to set up the laser beams and bells attached to trip wires to prevent the 'while you were out cards' ninja deliveries...
<daftykins> that's a good idea when there's no proper funky RAID setup
<diddledan_> lol
<daftykins> ugh i dobbed in the postie at my parents place when one did that
<daftykins> ring the doorbell and RUN!
<zmoylan-pi> why is the postman standing on the road 10foot from house with a long pointy stick...
<diddledan_> zmoylan-pi: long pointy sticks ftw
 * diddledan_ waves his long pointy stick in all your faces
<daftykins> you may mean the finglonger - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_P1bu4HUAMs
<diddledan_> lol
<zmoylan-pi> no the finglonger involves the deaths of too many, the long pointy stick is good enough :-P
<diddledan_> should I put the lasers on sharks' heads (for the interception of delivery guys)
<zmoylan-pi> only if you can arrange a trip wire that drops them on the delivery guy without voiding the warranty of the drives been delivered...
<diddledan_> ah
<diddledan_> good point
<diddledan_> hmm
<diddledan_> now I'm stuck in a quandry
<zmoylan-pi> once you add sharks it's hard to make the warranties survive g shock or moisture exposure...
<zmoylan-pi> and of course explosions of scube gear
<diddledan_> yeah, but without the sharks the delivery guy gets away
<zmoylan-pi> perhaps squid are more grabby...
<diddledan_> hmm
<diddledan_> that's a good thought
<zmoylan-pi> and the massive tentacles wrapped around front door won't give the game away. a simple plant card saying it's squid ivy...
<m0nkey_> diddledan_, motherboard and cpu support ECC I hope.
<diddledan_> m0nkey_: according to the guaranteed compatibility on crucial's selector wizard
<diddledan_> if not I'll ljust send it back and claim my refund
<davmor2> diddledan: www.youtube.com/watch?v=VDW0ZnZxjn4
<diddledan_> lol
<m0nkey_> what CPU?
<diddledan_> bulldozer
<m0nkey_> ah, you'll be okay then
<m0nkey_> a buddy of mine has one with ECC
<diddledan_> first gen 8core thingy
<m0nkey_> welcome to the ECC master race
<daftykins> ooh they've disabled the mod_security rule
<diddledan> and windows 10 is running
<zmoylan-pi> for /levels/ of 'running' :-P
<diddledan> gotta install a firmware update by the looks - brb - this one will (should) be mucho quicker..o
 * zmoylan-pi starts betting pool on how long...
<diddledan> back
 * zmoylan-pi pays the winner
 * diddledan fires up spartan
<diddledan> looks like they fixed the favourites-bar misalignment
<zmoylan-pi> aroo!! \o/
<diddledan> there's two bugs filed
<diddledan> and another
<daftykins> diddledan: did y'see i mentioned they unblocked it now and all works \o/ so you win teh prize!
<diddledan> yey
<daftykins> also, no specific OS info exactly, but he screenshot me his cpanel which refers to a 2.6.32 kernel
<daftykins> and apache 2.2.29
<diddledan> oh golly
<daftykins> *shrug*
<diddledan> at least the kernel is in the .6 series and not the .4 :-p
<daftykins> :D
<ali1234> so centos 6 then
<daftykins> it did seem to have lv in the kernel name if that's any clue
<daftykins> oh lve
<daftykins> 2.6.32-531.29.2.lve1.3.11.1
<daftykins> cloudlinux? 0o
<foobarry> popey: http://support.lenovo.com/us/en/documents/hf004122
<foobarry> battery recall on lots of thinkpad
<daftykins> :O
<foobarry> http://www.applianceretailer.com.au/2015/04/lenovo-recalls-more-thinkpad-lithium-ion-batteries-that-could-overheat-and-start-fires
<foobarry> second link not necessary, just lenovo
<directhex_> 10 has a usable music app
<directhex_> 8 does not
<directhex_> i'm talking to scrollback Â¬_Â¬
<diddledan> directhex_: oops
<Azelphur> Anyone know anything about running a virtual machine with either Ubuntu Touch or Android as the host?
#ubuntu-uk 2015-04-25
<moreati> Does http://www.engadget.com/ kill the browser tab in Chrome(ium) for any of you?
 * zmoylan-pi fires up chromium...
<zmoylan-pi> he's dead jim...
<zmoylan-pi> a 1gb netbook so closing down almost every other program and repeating...
<zmoylan-pi> and still dead as a dodo
<zmoylan-pi> works fine in my normal browser which on this old slow system is qupzilla a lite browser
<knightwise> good morning everyone
<knightwi1e> whois Knightmare
<knightwi1e> mor'ning Knightmare
<knightwi1e> hey  Chl
<Knightmare> Morning
<knightwi1e> hey Knightmare , how are you doin over there in TX
<Knightmare> TX?
<Knightwise> arent you in the us ?
<Knightmare> No
<Knightwise> Sorry , you are on the TX freenode server :) my bad
<Knightwise> read the whois wrong
<Knightmare> np
<Knightwise> where are you from ?
<Knightmare> UK
<diddledan> morning all
<diddledan> so my WD RED discs arrived nice and early
<diddledan> busy inserting them right now
<diddledan> zfs raidz is now rebuilding after the first replacement (I'm doing two replacements and one addition)
<diddledan> should give me 9TB usable spaces
<diddledan> (12 total)
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<diddledan> allo
<brobostigon> morning diddledan
<diddledan> I love how when you're playing with hard disc swapping and you leave them all lying on the floor attached to the computer while you power-up to do the first step in rebuilding an array (replacing one disc offline at a time) it looks like the computer is spilling it's guts as though it's been critically injured
<diddledan> (there's a nice thought for your morning :-p)
<diddledan> in other news: I've run-out of sata ports :-D
<diddledan> got all six used for 4hdds and 2ssds
<diddledan> 30% rebuilt
 * diddledan twiddles someone's thumbs
<diddledan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ayLZk4oNwuQ
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> he's excited
<diddledan> hmm, 1 more hour for the FIRST resilvering of my array
<diddledan> got another two to go
<diddledan> allo bashrc
<bashrc> g'day peeps
 * diddledan stands by his original statement
<bashrc> yesterday I battled with emacs, and I think I won
<diddledan> I'm not sure you can ever win that fight can you?
<bashrc> heh
<bashrc> I think what's happening between 14.10 and 15.04 is that some of the stuff which used to come with emacs by default now no longer does
<bashrc> making the core app leaner
<diddledan> it's like falling into a black hole - it warps itself so the more you think you've learned the more it decides to show you that's an incorrect assumption
<diddledan> aah
<bashrc> emacs is not so much a black hole as like falling down the rabbit hole
<diddledan> lol
<bashrc> into a world of hatters and dormice
<diddledan> weirdness ensues!
<diddledan> you: "what's this?" devs: "we don't talk about that. just ignore it."
<bashrc> is today Debian release day?
<diddledan> oh?
<diddledan> I am out of touch with debian release cycles
<diddledan> I tend to only really take note of ubuntu's
<bashrc> I don't think debian has cycles as such, they just release when they're ready
<diddledan> point
<diddledan> come-on raid
 * diddledan gets impatient
<diddledan> 45 minutes to go apparently
<diddledan> I wonder if it would have been quicker to leave the old disc plugged-in and do an online-replace
<diddledan> step two initiated. says it's gonna take 7 hours this time
<bashrc> 7 hours is enough time to make coffee
<zmoylan-pi> enough time to perfect cold fusion :-P
<diddledan> adobe tried that
<diddledan> it's an evil thing now
<zmoylan-pi> well... adobe...
<diddledan> ok, should I do a raid5 or a raid10 (raid 10 only loses me 1TB currently over raid5 but in the future if I upgrade to bigger discs then that will increase)
<diddledan> .. I'm gonna recreate the array
<diddledan> save doing the whole rebuild
<diddledan> luckily I've not got too much data yet so I can put it on a usb while I redo the array
<diddledan> poor daddy. he sounds very poorly on the phone
<diddledan> killer manflu I believe
<penguin42> there seems to be an error in the weather, it was lovely and warm and sunny, and now I've got a week off it's pouring down
<diddledan> it's fine here. cloudy but the sun is shining
<diddledan> bashrc: don't forget to close the door
<TheProphet[S]> Hi all
<daftykins> lo
<TheProphet[S]> I thought 15.04 had been released officially. When I do-release-upgrade it loads utopic packages, why is that? The same applies to do-release-upgrade - d!
<daftykins> what version are you on now?
<TheProphet[S]> Lts
<daftykins> you should never use do-release-upgrade -d
<daftykins> yeah, so you have to update to 14.10 before you can go to 15.04
<daftykins> you can't bypass 14.10 :)
<zmoylan-pi> do not pass go, do not collect #200.... :-P
<daftykins> ^_^
<daftykins> which also gives you plenty of time to backup \o/
<TheProphet[S]> I have worked on alpha versions of Ubuntu before, but that's beside the point. I would like to revert my repositories to trusty now, is that possible?
<penguin42> downgrading isn't possible generally
<TheProphet[S]> my sources.list is correct, it mentions only trusty
<TheProphet[S]> I haven't installed anything
<penguin42> hmm
<TheProphet[S]> I did not proceed with the upgrade once I realised I was going to install utopic
<daftykins> you might be safe as long as you closed out then
<TheProphet[S]> But my repositories now are utopic, even though my sources.list is set on trusty
<TheProphet[S]> I did close yes, I needed to confirm if I wanted to proceed and said no.
<TheProphet[S]> If I try to update my packages now it says that I have to upgrade all of them because it's using utopic repos
<TheProphet[S]> I might as well do the upgrade now, the reason why I wanted to do it in the first place is that it freezes, can't even reisub
<daftykins> that might be unrelated
<TheProphet[S]> It is, the freezing happens since way before this upgrade incident
<daftykins> memtest + disk health ok? :)
<TheProphet[S]> I'm not sure even if it's an hardware or software problem
<TheProphet[S]> I keep thinking it's the video card
<TheProphet[S]> But I can't pinpoint it
<TheProphet[S]> Everytime I log in I get an error message about xserver-xorg-core, because it crashes
<directhex_> Has anyone got Bioshock Infinite running on 1504?
<TheProphet[S]> On 14.04 yes
<directhex_> it wokrked for me on my old PC (14.04), not my new one (15.04)
<directhex_> i'd like to see if someone else has a problem before wasting my time with an unneeded reinstall
<AndChat|336756> I updated my system to 14.10 in order to upgrade to 15.04, but now WiFi does not connect
<daftykins> got a network cable handy?
<AndChat|336756> The router is in another room, why?
<daftykins> use wired?
<daftykins> no point fixing a version you're not even going to stay on
<AndChat|336756> Not fiscally possible unfortunately, I would either need a 30 meter cable or to carry Pc and 42" TV to the other room
<AndChat|336756> Is there a way to fix it though? I'm trying to modify modules.conf
<daftykins> got another computer? like a laptop?
<AndChat|336756> The one I'm typing from yes
<MartijnVdS> Fiscally? So it's not possible for tax reasons?
<daftykins> MartijnVdS: it's financially non-viable :D
<daftykins> time = money
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: network cables aren't THAT expensive are they? :P
<daftykins> AndChat|336756: android device though, hrmm probably can't bridge wired LAN through that
<daftykins> proper laptop, yes
<daftykins> AndChat|336756: we don't even know what your wireless adapter is right now
<AndChat|336756> But the adapter works, it sees the 2.4 Ghz connection, the password is the same as always
<AndChat|336756> It connects for a few seconds and then disconnects itself
<daftykins> ah ok so the details are slowly adding up
<daftykins> perhaps if you pored over the system logs you might find an explanation as to why, but i really think it'd be more sensible to either clean install 15.04 at this point or drag the machine over to wired
<AndChat|336756> There was a blatant syntax error in the iwlwifi.conf file
<daftykins> fine now then?
<AndChat|336756> I corrected the error and saved the file, now it's connected
<daftykins> huzzah
<AndChat|336756> Thanks, regarding the fiscal cliff I mentioned earlier
<AndChat|336756> Oh, forget it, I was gonna try and say something clever
<daftykins> nothing like an air of absolute pessimism to motivate one to find the real solution \o/
<ali1234> can anyone make any sense of this? http://msscodefactory.sourceforge.net/
<ali1234> i'm not sure if it's way over my head or the next templeOS
<ali1234> it appears to be a tool that takes a database schema and generates a static java ORM on top of it
<ali1234> apparently it takes "multi-hours" to run
<ali1234> but maybe i am missing something
<ali1234> also i dont understand how expert systems or genetic algorithms fit in
<ali1234> but "genetic" might be a typo
<MAPcz> hi all
<MAPcz> so hard sleeping abroad in diff hotels and that;/
<directhex_> it takes me a few days to get comfortable in a hotel bed
<MAPcz> yea i managed 4/5hrs a night and thats it
<MAPcz> waking up all the time then tired at night
<directhex_> i might stay up later if i enjoyed cartoon network's late night programming
<directhex_> and CN is the only channel i watch when i'm in the US
<directhex_> it's the only channel which isn't back-to-back lies
<MartijnVdS> CN?
<daftykins> cartoon network
 * penguin42 puts a pile of corn in one corner of the channel for daftykins and watches
 * daftykins scratches his head
<daftykins> Meep Meep
<penguin42> :-)
<MAPcz> hmm
<MAPcz> whats that bew show startiong on sky atlantic
<MAPcz> seen an ad for it..looked good but forgot;/
#ubuntu-uk 2015-04-26
 * zmoylan-pi tests if it was the iron enriched corn by preparing the giant acme magnet...
 * daftykins slides along the ground toward zmoylan-pi 
<zmoylan-pi> thank goodness for free shipping :-P
 * zmoylan-pi reverses the polarity at the thought of daftykins approaching...
<daftykins> ;_;
 * zmoylan-pi puts out free bagels to console daftykins 
<daftykins> and treats for my cat? she was in my arms at the time
<zmoylan-pi> she's a cat, she'll want some of whatever you're eating right up to the point of eating it.
<daftykins> :>
<penguin42> perhaps she'll eat the holes
<zmoylan-pi> of course some cats love cheese
<daftykins> o0
<daftykins> she decorated the floor around me whilst i was poised on the tip of my sofa playing a game online with friends, Friday night
<daftykins> i could only reach to push her off the rug at least :P
<zmoylan-pi> and one of our cats adored porridge
<zmoylan-pi> warm milky porridge
<zmoylan-pi> perfect brekkie before a long morning snooze
<penguin42> which lasts until lunch
<zmoylan-pi> then a light lunch preceding the afternoon snooze
<penguin42> which lasts until dinner
<zmoylan-pi> or tea time depending on wether you're working class/middle class
<zmoylan-pi> then if it's winter camping out to sleep as close to fireplace as is possible
<penguin42> yep, my type of life
<zmoylan-pi> i swear if the fireplace we had didn't have a glass door on the front she'd have climbed in sometimes
<zmoylan-pi> she sat so close that her nose had a tiny scar from touching the glass when she started to doze off
<penguin42> haha
<daftykins> :D d'aww
<zmoylan-pi> then after her fur got too hot to touch she'd fall asleep under sofa till she cooled down
<zmoylan-pi> she was basically a huge heat sink in the house... :-)
<daftykins> gah just missed a photo op of my cat using the TV remotes as a pillow
<daftykins> :D
<Knightwise> morning everyone
<TheProphet[S]> Good morning all
<TheProphet[S]> Anyone can help me understand why I have to boot in recovery mode and then resume normal boot to be able to start X in Ubuntu 15.04? If I start without the recovery step the screen remains blank
<TheProphet[S]> Can anyone* and please*
<TheProphet[S]> I guess it's a bit early on a Sunday to start asking that sort of question
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<TheProphet[S]> Testing Bioshock infinite on 15.04 after update, if I manage to start the system
<TheProphet[S]> It worked at first, although I'm not sure how it managed to send the output onto the hdmi even though analogue was selected
<TheProphet[S]> I then quit the game and fiddled with the sound settings, restarted the game and Pc froze
<TheProphet[S]> After a hard reboot video output is not visible, I can reboot by going to a tty, I don't see anything though, I just remember the sequence
<TheProphet[S]> Then I boot into recovery mode, select resume normal boot and video starts like nothing ever happened. Is there a logical explanation to this?
<TheProphet[S]> If I select normal boot procedure from Grub I just get a black screen
<TheProphet[S]> Perhaps logic died with Leonard Nimoy
<TheProphet[S]> Anyways someone yesterday asked if Bioshock infinite worked after 15.04 update, the answer is yes
<TheProphet[S]> Although it freezes it seems
<brobostigon> ST4 5* 13:15
<TheProphet[S]> After a few seconds of game play,
<TheProphet[S]> It froze and I had to reboot
<penguin42> Jessie seems to work
<ali1234> in general or for bioshock infinite?
<penguin42> generally
<ali1234> i just saw someone say that NFS mounts don't work properly
<penguin42> perfectly normal behaviour for NFS
<ali1234> but that was on raspberry pi so who knows what hacked up version they are using
<ali1234> well DBTS says it is supposed to be fixed
<ali1234> or are you just making a joke about NFS being rubbish?
<penguin42> well, it's not rubbish, but it does seem to need some TLC to keep it happy
<ali1234> this appears to specifically be the issue where systemd can't mount remote filesystems from fstab
<penguin42> ah, using systemd automount or explicit mounts?
<ali1234> having NFS mounts in /etc/fstab which work fine, until you upgrade to jessie, and then they don't
<penguin42> ah
<ali1234> but as i said, raspi, so it's probably hacked up
<shauno> I haven't touched jessie yet.  I'm a little paranoid about migrating non-systemd boxes to systemd when I can't physically reach them to mop up
<ali1234> i can't decide whether to go 15.04 or jessie
<ali1234> i'm on 14.04 at the moment
<penguin42> ali1234: I'm not sure what the debian story is for Pi, it might be supported?
<ali1234> if i go 15.04 i'm stuck on the upgrade train until the next LTS
<shauno> I suspect my task for the next few days is going to be duping them into VMs so I can play in a sandpit
<ali1234> penguin42: the debian story is "use raspbian" - which is basically a full rebuild of everything with a different arch
<ali1234> you can use debian armel i think, if you don't care it's not optimized
<penguin42> ali1234: nod, I suspect the Pi2 is less hastle because it's a newer CPU, but I've not followed the Pi much
<ali1234> right, the pi2 can run armhf so debian or ubuntu properly optimized
<ali1234> the pi1 is stuck with debian's lowest common denominator and cannot run ubuntu at all. hence raspbian
<ali1234> however they all have the same crazy bootloader stuff which requires non-trivial modification to the OS
<penguin42> nod
<penguin42> yeh but that stuff is fairly isolated; most of the userland packages after bootsetup should be OK
<shauno> I think that meshes with what I tend to see - people boot raspbian, and then add jessie sources
<penguin42> generally on ARM stuff, once you get a fairly modern kernel running you can just slap your favorite userspace in; debootstrap being the easiest thing to do
<ali1234> but generally on ARM stuff you are tied to an ancient BSP which makes that impossible
<penguin42> yeh, it depends how new your userspace wants; pre systemd you could get away with a fairly old kernel
<bashrc> ali1234: whether you go to jessie or 15.04 depends on whether you need recent package versions and don't mind upgrading every 6 months. I use Debian on the server and have been on Jessie for quite a while
<ali1234> i don't want to upgrade every six months
<ali1234> i want nvidia binary driver to work easily and be able to play games on steam
<bashrc> then I'd stick with debian or ubuntu LTS
<ali1234> yes, which?
<bashrc> depends which you prefer. Is this for desktop or server?
<ali1234> desktop
<bashrc> with desktop I'd go for ubuntu LTS
<ali1234> i prefer ubuntu but i need newer packages than 14.04 has
<bashrc> then you have the stability of an LTS, put also with the option to use PPAs
<ali1234> i don't care about stability
<ali1234> i just don't want to upgrade all the time
<ali1234> by upgrade i mean distro upgrade
<bashrc> if you really don't care about stability then a rolling release like Arch might be the thing. I don't have any experience on that though
<ali1234> is there a rolling release distro that doesn't break every day worse than debian unstable?
<ali1234> arch is not it
<ali1234> rolling release appears to be an excuse not to ever test releases
<bashrc> from my limited experience of rolling releases I think breakages are common. So going with an ubuntu LTS would seem to fit the requirements
<bashrc> then if you need very recent packages you can probably just use a PPA
<ali1234> yes, except there won't be another one of those for 12 months
<ali1234> the newer packages i need include systemd
<bashrc> ah, currently I don't think the ubuntu LTS uses systemd, although it might be possible to install it
<ali1234> it doesn't and it isn't
<ali1234> let me boil it right down to basics
<ali1234> i want systemd, nvidia driver, steam, recent xorg, xfce 4.12 all working out of the box, and two years support
<ali1234> also the moon on a stick
 * DJones joking point ali1234 to ##windows :)
<DJones> How does steamos deal with that
<bashrc> I don't know what xfce version jessie uses, but that requirements list sounds in jessie territory
<ali1234> well it doesn't have xfce 4.12 that's for sure
<ali1234> jessie has xfce 4.10 still, but that i can deal with
<ali1234> bigger issue is does nvidia driver work properly yet with a decently new version?
<penguin42> ali1234: Hmm, the current LTS should get the new kernel/X in 6 months if they follow the previous pattern of hardware support
<ali1234> last time i tried debian it was a year behind and you had to install it manually
<ali1234> penguin42: but not systemd
<ali1234> i don't care about kernel at all ...
<ali1234> X is meh... as long as it has present
<penguin42> ali1234: Well, fedora 22 gives you latest kernel, systemd, and X - but not the 2 year support
<ali1234> also RPM is horrible
<penguin42> yeh, I want to see what snappy is like
<ali1234> last time i tried an rpm distro it was impossible to build any of the packages from source without exactly duplicating the build server
<penguin42> that's actually not that hard, I've got the hang of rpmbuild
<bashrc> I wrote a packaging system called packagemonkey which does rpm
<ali1234> oh sure, rpmbuild. should have worked, it just didn't
<ali1234> does it still try to build everything in hardcoded paths under your home directory that you have to rm -rf between every package to stop them conflicting?
<bashrc> probably, but my packaging system handles all that drudge work
<ali1234> rpm already has a tool that does that - it makes a chroot, installs all dependencies in it, then builds the package with rpmbuild
<diddledan> howdo
<penguin42> ali1234: almost, it's not quite hard coded but you can change it in a dot file; on one machine I have the %_topdir changed to build it elsewhere
<ali1234> and it didn't work properly either
<ali1234> well i think it goes without saying that rpm is off the table
<ali1234> the question is do i stay on 14.04, install 15.04, or jessie?
<bashrc> if you need systemd then it's either 15.04 or jessie
<ali1234> yeah
<bashrc> 15.04 might give you a newer xfce
<penguin42> ali1234: jessie isn't going to get you latest
<ali1234>  don't need latest, just newer than 14.04
<penguin42> ali1234: Have you tried installing 14.04.2 - it will give you a different kernel/X than a 14.04 install unless you change the hardware support packages
<ali1234> i don't want a newer kernel
<penguin42> so what is it you want that's newer?
<ali1234> systemd
<penguin42> ah
<penguin42> then you need 15.04
<ali1234> or jessie, as we have established :)
<ali1234> i think it has to be 15.04 really
<ali1234> i bet debian doesn't have all the ubuntu gnome patches that make gnome software not suck on all other desktops
<penguin42> although debian's gnome isn't that new, so maybe it's less of a problem?
<ali1234> it's been a problem since at least 3.12
<penguin42> ah ok
<bashrc> I think jessie uses gnome 3.14
<ali1234> it does
<penguin42> yeh
<penguin42> ali1234: which desktop do you use and which gnome apps do you use with it?
<ali1234> xfce and the pdf viewer
<penguin42> ali1234: Yeh I've switched to xfce,  but I tend to use KDE's pdf viewer, okular
<ali1234> i've got a question
<ali1234> why is it when you see screenshots of KDE software, they never ever use oxygen, and always use that theme that looks like gtk?
<ali1234> https://okular.kde.org/images/screenies/okular-backend-pdf-1.png
<penguin42> because oxygen is really really screwed up ?
<ali1234> right. so why was it the default for so long?
<penguin42> well it's quite nice look, but the oxygen-gtk renderer just causes so many random bugs
<ali1234> oxygen looks awful
<penguin42> ok ok, it's a theme
<ali1234> it makes everything look slapped together
<ali1234> it looks awful for entirely objective reasons
 * penguin42 is still looking for a compact gtk theme to use in xfce
<ali1234> which can't be fixed due to the way Qt works
<ali1234> what do you mean by "compact"?
<penguin42> ali1234: I find the 'tabs' and buttons tend to use a lot of vertical space
<penguin42> ali1234: It annoys me most on terminals, where the tab switching at the bottom takes a couple of rows space up
<ali1234> then don't use tabs? use separate windows?
 * penguin42 likes tabs
<ali1234> there's this thing called a taskbar where every window is a tab
<ali1234> and you can put it anywhere on the screen that you want. imagine that!
 * penguin42 scatters terminals everywhere each with a few tabs in
 * penguin42 would just like his tabs to be a little less podgie
<ali1234> what terminal?
<penguin42> ali1234: I think it's the same on both terminator and xfce-terminal
<ali1234> yeah it is
<ali1234> oh, have you set "force dpi" to 96 dpi?
<ali1234> that is essential
<penguin42> yeh I'm pretty sure I've got that
<ali1234> and set font size to 11 pt?
<penguin42> see   http://imagebin.ca/v/1zfYH9sBBh5a
<ali1234> what have you done...
<penguin42> haha
<ali1234> the tabs are the only thing in that picture that is the correct size
<penguin42> it's microcurve title bar theme, so that's nice and small, I've got a nice small font in the terminal - and these *HUGE* tabs
<ali1234> just set the system font to like 7 pt
<penguin42> but there seems to be so much padding around the text
<ali1234> yes, because without that it looks awful
<penguin42> (Default font is Sans 9)
<ali1234> without that padding it will look like KDE
<ali1234> where everything is squashed together and unreadable
<penguin42> well, I would like it a bit more squashed, like the title
<penguin42> it's readable but with no extra space
<ali1234> window borders are just bitmaps in xfwm
<ali1234> you will have to hack the gtk theme to get less padding on elements
<ali1234> it is written in css for gtk3 and something else for gtk2
<penguin42> yeh, as I say, (15:15:18) ***penguin42 is still looking for a compact gtk theme to use in xfce
<ali1234> and the css version breaks with every gtk release and someone has to spend several hours fixing it
<ali1234> gtk themes pretty much don't exist any more because of this
<penguin42> a sad state of affairs
<ali1234> xfce has dropped all themes except for greybird and numix
<penguin42> brb
<ali1234> i would switch to KDE if they made a decent theme
<ali1234> the new thing unfortunately does not seem to have fixed any of the alignment issues
<ali1234> they did at least get rid of the gradients and boxes everywhere though, so that's something
<ali1234> maybe i should make a kde theme
<penguin42> ali1234: I've just switched to xfce from KDE, I can't stand KDE5
<ali1234> why? it's just the same thing with a much better theme
<ali1234> i would probably have to nuke the plasma trash though, and just run xfce panel or something
<penguin42> KDE without plasma? Sounds an odd thing to do
<diddledan> kde3 was where it was at
<diddledan> I liked kde3
<ali1234> i think the pdf viewer might be the only app i use which is part of a "desktop environment"
<penguin42> diddledan: Yeh
<diddledan> the switch between kde3 and 4 was jarring
<penguin42> diddledan: I went KDE3->Gnome (2?)->KDE4 (after about 4 years with Gnome2)
<diddledan> like "wtf did you do?!"
<penguin42> diddledan: Yeh, KDE5 is like that now
<ali1234> http://fc02.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2014/094/9/b/kde_5_mockup_2_0_by_linix_arts-d7cyuh7.png
<diddledan> it was because of kde4 that I went ubuntu
<ali1234> this is hilarious
<ali1234> arn't mock ups supposed to look *good*?
<ali1234> at least they fixed the clock
<diddledan> the colours in that are evil
<diddledan> green "spotify" followedby "now playing" in white?!
<ali1234> now this, this looks good: http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-CBOhh_ywz1c/VH2TB-RMgKI/AAAAAAAAJyg/ZwiOjKgD-uo/s1600/Manjaro%2B0.8.11.jpg
<diddledan> not just green but luminous green
<ali1234> i'm not even sure if that is KDE
<diddledan> it really annoys me that anything running on kde MUST have a badly placed K in the name
<diddledan> oKular
<ali1234> i don't mind that
<diddledan> and that example with "piKture"
<diddledan> and "Kontrol Panel" <-- why can't they call that "K Control Panel"?
<ali1234> oh wow that manjaro screenshot is xfce
<ali1234> i knew it was too good to be true
<daftykins> just been to that castle mountain bikin' event
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/15m8ehwwbwjo6nn/AACwtdSjK7Nc0HdIyNmedjx6a?dl=0
<shauno> you appear to have borrowed our weather
<shauno> (no rush returning it btw, I'm getting kinda used to this bright light)
<daftykins> shauno: :D
<daftykins> foggy this morn, windy and 10 deg C this afty
<shauno> we've had pretty much continuous sun.  a bit grayer today, but still totally passable.
<shauno> went up to dublin yesterday, got soaked to the skin, and promptly left again
<diddledan> shauno: you're lying
<diddledan> shauno: ireland doesn't have sun!
<shauno> norly!
<diddledan> serials?
<penguin42> shauno: the sun seems to be over here today
<shauno> http://i.imgur.com/APkPbeF.jpg  (just to add further shock, I've even been outside)
<diddledan> I call shenanigans - that's america
<shauno> lol
<diddledan> nowai is ireland that pretty!
<diddledan> so my masculinity extensions are installed into my NAS
<diddledan> I now have 7TEEBEEs to play with
<shauno> proofs it's not america - they wouldn't consider that a road, let alone a 2-lane road - http://i.imgur.com/ahvy6TB.jpg
<diddledan> no wonder the post office doesn't believe you exist
<daftykins> crikey that's a main road :P
<diddledan> lol
<daftykins> can get two horse and carts going opposite ways down that easy ;)
<diddledan> clickity clack over the bridge. and out pops the troll and tries to eat it.
<diddledan> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Billy_Goats_Gruff
<shauno> we actually have carts here :/  well, they call them 'traps'
<shauno> had a friend over from slovakia for the week .. she was quite surprised to see them around and about town
<shauno> also surprised to see people park their houses on random bits of commanage
<daftykins> :D
<shauno> got me thinking, it kinda says something when a slovakian thinks your city is "cute but kinda backwards"
<daftykins> big alarm bells start sounding, then you know you have to hit the pub yep
<daftykins> but these city folk know not what they see ;)
<shauno> lol .. well this is ireland's 3rd biggest city :)
<diddledan> I like that they actually admit that they're "traps"
<shauno> (or 4th .. galway and limerick seem to have some kind of dispute over that)
<diddledan> www.youtube.com/watch?v=4F4qzPbcFiA
<daftykins> fine Irish fellow there
<diddledan> he may have been in the sunbed a bit too long - he looks like a lobster now
<shauno> well, this will be fun.  I have to knock up a new front panel for something, but the only ruler I can find is old & snapped.  so I have about 7cm to work with
<diddledan> 3inches ought to be enough for anyone
<diddledan> or is that 640KB?
<daftykins> i do loathe those ancient and out of context quotes
<daftykins> sounds a bit too much like newbies going "hur hur, things change as time passes"
<daftykins> http://wccftech.com/intels-6th-generation-skylake-s-processor-lineup-leaked-core-i7-6700k-leads-pack-10-skus-detailed-samples-spotted/
<daftykins> got linked to this earlier 0o
<daftykins> 4GHz at last
<diddledan> I thought intel believed that 4GHz was a myth
<shauno> picked this up - http://www.ebay.ie/itm/141361319227  there seems to be 1001 people selling it, and no-one giving a proper set of dimensions :(
<penguin42> sigh - I want more cores, give me 8 core, 3.5GHz and I'll be happy
<daftykins> isn't that what Haswell-E is, penguin42 ? logical cores anyway
<diddledan> shauno: doesn't this count: External dimension:  width=220mm   Height=52mm   depth = 226mm?
<shauno> it's not really enough .. I need to know what screws go in the front, and how far from the corners they are
<penguin42> daftykins: Haswell-E is I think 6 core, so getting there - but still - come on!
<penguin42> daftykins: I think they're upto 15 core in Xeon
<diddledan> penguin42: you want 8 full cores or 4 with hypernuts?
<penguin42> diddledan: I want my full 8 full cores, none of this hypernuts
<daftykins> haha
<diddledan> so you want 16 hyperspaces?
<penguin42> diddledan: I've got a 5 year old 4 core 2.8GHz i7 here - why bother upgrading? Sure it'll be a bit faster clock/clock - but not vastly
<diddledan> I've got an AMD 8core
<penguin42> diddledan: Meh, 16 hypernuts would be nice, but it's the cores I really want
<penguin42> diddledan: No, you've got an AMD 4 core with their equivalent of HT
<daftykins> i don't think i'd buy AMD.
<diddledan> penguin42: it's not the same as FTL
<penguin42> diddledan: They share chunks between their cores, they're not really 8 independent cores
<diddledan> penguin42: it's only the Integer unit that's shared
<penguin42> diddledan: Other way, I think it's only the fp unit that's shared
<diddledan> the actual guts is all independant
<penguin42> still, I want 8 real independent cores
<diddledan> it can drive non arithmetic stuff at 8 independance
<penguin42> true, I'd rather have 16 cores that are independent, but I'll settle with 8
<penguin42> maybe I'd even have a broken 16 core with say 13 cores
<daftykins> heh
<daftykins> fail-binned
<penguin42> yeh, give me 13 cores, I'll be happy
 * penguin42 uses a machine with 2x6 cores as one of his dev boxes at work; very nice
<penguin42> but I'm just bored with Intel not pulling their fingers out for years
<shauno> did those omgcores arm boxes ever happen?
<penguin42> shauno: They apparently exist but I can't find any to buy - the Cavium ThunderX
<diddledan> shauno: the orangebox?
<daftykins> why should intel work when AMD suck so hard :(
<shauno> nah, I think the orangebox was a bunch of mini intels shoved in one chassis
<diddledan> shauno: I think canonical moved away from arm for those replacing them with intels
<penguin42> daftykins: Yeh exactly
<penguin42> daftykins: The problem is Intel just have a very very sharp pin on their chip making equipment, and until AMDs fabs catch up they don't stand much of a chance
<daftykins> well that and they don't have fabs :>
<daftykins> their designs haven't done too well for a while now too
<daftykins> i'd love them to come back (AMD) it'd be great to have true competition again
<directhex_> AMD no longer have any dazzle
<daftykins> ok i've gotta head out, ttfn \o
<directhex_> when was the last time they competed?
<daftykins> probably Athlon64 time
<directhex_> athlon fx!
<penguin42> daftykins: oh yeh, they sold them off to Global foundaries I think?
<diddledan> directhex_: back in the 90s they were topdog with the k6-2
<directhex_> i had a duron once
<directhex_> and athlon64
<daftykins> Athlon XP mobile was where it was at ;)
<shauno> my amd 486 was smoking.  120MHz 486.
 * penguin42 had a dual Athlon at one point
<penguin42> Athlon MP
<directhex_> i7 is fine for me
<diddledan> I think they stopped being truly competitive when they no-longer used an "intel equivalence value" in their marketing
<directhex_> i think it was the APU days
<directhex_> i lost track totally of their sockets, they had like 3 different sockets on the go at once, mostly differentiated by whether the onboard gfx was dire or merely bad
<directhex_> i still don't understand amd sockets
<diddledan> the AM sockets seem to be backward compatible?
<diddledan> e.g. I believe AM3+ can run a processor designed for AM3 or AM2
<directhex_> socket am1, fm2, fm2+, and am3+, for desktops
<diddledan> (the + is important for omgcores apparently?)
<directhex_> all the motherboards are from 2011 too
<diddledan> yeah they haven't released a new chipset in forever
<directhex_> and their top-end cpu will burn a hole through your floor. 220W!
<diddledan> all the recent mobos have been rehashes of existing ones with an efi instead of bios
<diddledan> bashrc: you enjoying the yoyo experience?
<daftykins> must be the BT effect :D
<penguin42> diddledan: They need EFI/GPT partitions to do big disks
<daftykins> AMD chipsets went pretty bad for a while
<shauno> I gave up on amd when Apple declared Intel the one true saviour (for now)
<shauno> which would be funnier if it wasn't true.
<ali1234> i was looking at CPUs the other day and it looks like the most expensive AMD CPU is the same price as the cheapest Intel CPU
<ali1234> at around Â£250
<penguin42> they have to to get the performance close
<daftykins> surely that's not a cheapest
<penguin42> no, you can get Intel for about Â£40
<directhex_> you can get a socket-1150 intel for Â£33.70 delivered
<directhex_> dual core 2.4ghz
<ali1234> celeron, yes
<ali1234> i only looked at quad core cpus
<daftykins> i don't buy anything below an i3 :>
<penguin42> ali1234: Actually, you're not trying on the AMDs - http://www.scan.co.uk/products/amd-3rd-gen-opteron-6380-cpu-abu-dhabi-16-core-s-g34-%28lga-1944%29-25ghz-8mb-x-2-l3-cache-115w-without-
<ali1234> and it was around Â£150
<ali1234> yeah i didn't look at opteron/xeon either
 * penguin42 bets that's 2 chips in one package
<daftykins> save on the heating next winter!
<directhex_> 115W is low for AMD
<directhex_> they have 220W chips
<ali1234> the cheapest haswell i5 is about the same price as the most expensive amd fx
<daftykins> an FX line is still going? crikey
<ali1234> well, what is AMDs CPU for the high end consumer these days?
<daftykins> i don't have a clue of their lineup at all since i don't tend to consider them even worthy of checking
<ali1234> AMD A?
<directhex_> they don't have one
<directhex_> they literally don't make high end consumer chips. the highest end they ever made is still the fx 9590, which is old
<directhex_> http://cpuboss.com/cpus/Intel-Core-i5-4440-vs-AMD-FX-9590
<directhex_> but you need to add the cost of a liquid cooling system to the amd
<directhex_> whereas the i5 haswell comes with a functional cooler
<directhex_> since it's 84W vs 220W
<daftykins> :S
<directhex_> and you *officially* can't run the 9590 off air, according to amd (results may vary in real life)
<directhex_> they sell a rebranded asetek AIO water cooler w/ 120mm radiator, the "amd fx-series liquid cooling system"
<ali1234> how much is it?
<directhex_> struggling to find it in the UK. equivalents are about 40-45 quid
<ali1234> the chip is Â£170 less than the intel chip in your comparison
<directhex_> Intel Core i5 4440 Processor Haswell is Â£144, AMD FX 9590 Processor - 8 Core is Â£181
<directhex_> that's top of the range amd vs cheapest quadcore intel, as requested
<directhex_> so add a Â£40 cooler to that and it's Â£220 vs Â£144
<directhex_> we could compare a Â£144 amd? or a Â£220 intel? what would you prefer?
<ali1234> how about FX 8370E (95W - Â£142) vs the Â£144 haswell?
<directhex_> http://cpuboss.com/cpus/Intel-Core-i5-4440-vs-AMD-FX-8370E says ~identical in the aggregate. intel better at single core, amd better at threaded (4 core vs 8 core)
<ali1234> figures
<directhex_> this is sorta AMD's problem. i had Â£300 to spend on a processor. amd don't make a processor to appeal to me. the intel i bought wipes the floor with the best amd on the market, in every measure except maybe "value for money"
<ali1234> yeah, i agree, that's kinda my point
<ali1234> AMD FX run from Â£60 - Â£180, intel i5 to i7 runs from Â£140 to Â£900
<directhex_> only 900?
<ali1234> 839 seems to be the most expensive before you get to xeons
<directhex_> bargain! should have got one of those
<directhex_> ;)
<directhex_> witcher 2 seems okay on ultra graphics settings on linux. that's good.
<daftykins> did you solve your 15.04 Bioshock issues?
<directhex_> not yet
<ali1234> who else other than asus makes motherboards with all 4-pin fan connectors?
<ali1234> seems like everyone else just has it for the CPU fan and all the others scream
<directhex_> hm. not something i've actively paid attention to
<directhex_> according to my motherboard manual, it's got 5 4-pin fan headers
<directhex_> and no 3-pin
<ali1234> directhex_: and what make is it?
<directhex_> msi
<ali1234> i see. i was actually looking at them... my GPU is MSI and it's very quiet
<directhex_> i wanted out-of-the-box linux support.
<ali1234> motherboard is ASUS and the CPU bracket lug snapped off, causing the heatsink to fall off while in operation :(
<directhex_> not many motherboards advertise that
<penguin42> ali1234: Ouch
<ali1234> out of the box linux support is also good of course... my brother got a new ASUS mobo recently and virtually nothing on it works in linux, not even the ethernet and sata works properly
<directhex_> ali1234: my cooler's bolted to a metal backplate, thankfully :x
<ali1234> although to be fair it was a year ago
<directhex_> ali1234: that's what i wanted to avoid
<directhex_> ali1234: killernic. supported out of the box on ubuntu, but not windows 10 :D
<ali1234> silly name though. is it actually good?
<directhex_> pfft
<directhex_> it's just a nic, tbh. these days, anyway
<directhex_> back in the day, the killernic was a $300 (!) network card, for teh gamerz
<directhex_> it sold itself as having tcp/ip offloading, for improved game performance. you could also run apps on its embedded cpu, e.g. torrent client running on the nic
<directhex_> nowadays it's just a fancy windows driver on top of a conventional firmwareless atheros gigabit chip
<ali1234> ah okay
<ali1234> i think i prefer it to be the latter, to be honest
<directhex_> well, it is. the 163mb gui crap doesn't run on windows 10, so even on windows i'm using the basic ethernet driver for it
<directhex_> description:    Qualcomm Atheros(R) AR816x/AR817x PCI-E Ethernet Network Driver
<daftykins> had someone just yesterday with some kind of alienware laptop, atheros killer NIC was fine but the killer wireless isn't supported by Linux yet
<directhex_> 08:00.0 Ethernet controller: Qualcomm Atheros Killer E220x Gigabit Ethernet Controller (rev 13)
<directhex_> ooh, some unknown pci ids. /me submits
<daftykins> killer wireless was meant to be waiting on the conversion of firmware from Windows drivers for ath10k
<directhex_> submitted 2 new usb controllers to lspci
<directhex_> erk forghot to unplug car
<daftykins> heh, had to double take that sentence
<directhex_> there we go
<ali1234> one of my neighbours has a car charger thing on the front of his house now
<ali1234> i did wonder how secure that was
<directhex_> yeah, i'm waiting on the installer to get one fitted
<ali1234> can anyone just steal electricity from them?
<directhex_> ali1234: depends on which of the 3 vendors made it
<ali1234> based on google images it looks like a ford focus one
<directhex_> that's dumb, those aren't subsidized
<ali1234> subsidized?
<directhex_> podpoint, rolec and chargemaster are the 3 main vendors
<directhex_> the govt pays 70% of the costs of getting an ev charger fitted, to a Â£900 limit
<directhex_> so you pay Â£200 or less
<directhex_> the points alone are about Â£450 without fitting
<ali1234> well, i haven't seen it up close, and they all look fairly similar
<directhex_> at any rate, rolec have a really cheapy little lock. chargemaster have an isolator switch activated via a key. i honestly don't know for podpoint
<directhex_> so you could steal electricity relatively easily... if you have something with a type 2 mennekes socket on it
<directhex_> or type 1 j1772
<ali1234> like .. an electric car
<directhex_> yes!
<shauno> I think we make some car chargers too, oddly enough.
<directhex_> HAH!
<directhex_> pod point has... a padlock hole on the plug
<directhex_> you can padlock it to its stand
<shauno> seems like something of an afterthought
<ali1234> i would just have an on/off switch inside the building, is that a typical thing that you get when it is installed?
<directhex_> ali1234: well, as the home owner, you get control over the circuit breaker
<directhex_> so you could just flip its circuit in your box
<ali1234> that's not exactly convenient though. i was thinking more like the oven on/off switch that you have to have, by law...
<directhex_> no, that's not a "thing"
<daftykins> i'm sure an electrician could come up with an idea
<directhex_> daftykins: it's a threading issue!
<directhex_> forced single-processor execution & bioshock runs
<daftykins> that's funky 0o
<ball> Hmm... I should probably have said "no" when Ubuntu asked me whether to upgrade.
<daftykins> ball: :D
<directhex_> daftykins: i guess it's not "broken on 15.04", it's "broken on 6-core hyperthreaded processors"
<daftykins> hmm i wonder, would disabling HT change much?
<daftykins> i'm sure i read something about some modern games hating it at times
<ali1234> or just set the core affinity?
<ali1234> oh you already did that. carry on
<directhex_> 12 threads of obscene power, only execute on one!
<directhex_> getting that fixed would be nice
<daftykins> only if you're a fan of that game ;)
 * daftykins wasn't
<penguin42> directhex_: I think processors with non-power of 2 cores freaked out simple algorithms
<directhex_> penguin42: well, it could be that, i have NPOT cores!
<penguin42> directhex_: Can you show me your /proc/cpuinfo ?
<directhex_> http://paste.ubuntu.com/10903828/
<penguin42> directhex_: OK, so 0..5 are one set of threads, 6..11 are the other set
<penguin42> pretty much like my 4 core is 0..3,4..7
<directhex_> seems that way
<daftykins> keep seeing this penguin1263 and thinking "that's not our penguin!"
<penguin42> where is that penguin?
<daftykins> #ubuntu
<penguin42> ah
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> imposterrrr!
#ubuntu-uk 2016-04-25
<oldspice> nevermind
<diddledan_> I miss my wily
<daftykins> :)
<daftykins> found scampi in the supermarket for the first time in months \o/
<diddledan_> \o/
<daftykins> time to throw in some scampi 'n' chips \o/
<diddledan_> nice
<diddledan_> I wonder if the skype webapp can be packaged into a shell for usage on loonicks now that the official downloadable seems to be broken?
<diddledan_> of course that might also get it onto the boomtutu phone
<daftykins> i thought it still required some special sauce to do anything beyond IM?
<diddledan_> donno
<m0nkey_> Who do I complain to, to get Montreal back on the TZ selection?
<AuroraAvenue> dunno
<m0nkey_> America/Montreal used to be a valid timezone, not anymore.
<diddledan_> m0nkey_, mark@canonical.com?
<diddledan_> alternatively /msg sabdfl :-p
<m0nkey_> I don't think it's a Cononical thing.. same thing happened in FBSD too.
<m0nkey_> also, can 16.04 boot on a mac without osx or refit being installed.. ala Fedora?
<m0nkey_> *refind
<diddledan_> go to 22minutes: https://developers.facebook.com/videos/f8-2016/keynote-d2/
<diddledan_> fun interactions in 3d
<diddledan_> m0nkey_, maybe the timezone data has changed upstream then? the package in ubuntu is zoneinfo
<diddledan_> might find the upstream details from that
<diddledan_> oh no, tzdata
<diddledan_> upstream: http://www.iana.org/time-zones
<diddledan_> m0nkey_, here's the change: http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/tz-announce/2015-April/000030.html
<m0nkey_> backzone file?
<diddledan_> pas d'idÃ©e
<m0nkey_> me non plus
<diddledan_> I'd like to see geocoding for timezone data so that you input your actual town/city and it uses that to figure out which timezone you are in. it should allow the existing selection of locality AND the search mechanism I just mentioned
<diddledan_> so you can do it either way
<daftykins> m0nkey_: i'd think most can boot on a mac fine, rEFInd is mostly for a friendly bootloader
<daftykins> not gonna be a good experience on a mac mind
<diddledan_> you can get the mac bootloader to load grub without a long delay by using the recovery to bless the correct file in the EFI partition
<diddledan_> there's supposed to be a linux version of bless but I don't know how well it works
<daftykins> bless you
<diddledan_> it's called bless because Steve Jobs is the holy Father
<diddledan_> sheep go "iphone!"
<diddledan_> :-p
<diddledan_> sorry, I should save the jesting for when shauno returns :-p
<zmoylan-1i> no no, that's my job... :-P
<daftykins> ;_;
<mappps> ooo
<mappps> sillicon valley ep 1 series 3 i out
<zmoylan-1i> i got tremors 5 on friday on dvd...
<daftykins> hopefully you don't get them trying to put the disc in, zmoylan-pi
<zmoylan-pi> now i have to make a special effort to find tremors 4 in dublin this week...
<daftykins> didn't realise they'd made that many
<zmoylan-pi> i'd heard 4 was out and that 5 was in the works but hadn't realised it was out on dvd already. mind the last few have been straight to dvd movies
<zmoylan-pi> wonderfully bad movies
<daftykins> they had to be really :)
<zmoylan-pi> 'why do you have cannon fuse?'
<mappps> lol tremors 5
<mappps> why did you buy it heh
<daftykins> i've a feeling a shop paid zmoylan-pi to take it ;)
<zmoylan-pi> i buy my movies on dvd
<zmoylan-pi> â¬7
<zmoylan-pi> this month i also got ice cold in alex and lawrence of arabia
<daftykins> g'night folks! have a good week ahead o/
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<diddledan_> tremors are awesome movies
<MartijnV1S> are they.. earth-shatteringly good?
<diddledan_> more that they worm their way into your subconcious
<diddledan_> subconscious*
<zmoylan-pi> they have underground cult following
<diddledan_> I guess I'm a cultist
<knightwise> zmoylan-pi: do you also still buy 78 rpm gramophones ?
<knightwise> ?
<diddledan_> knightwise, 8 bits are enough for anyone
<popey> Morning
<knightwise> mornin popey
<MooDoo> morning all
<foobarry> my xbox360 issue seems resolved
<foobarry> no lock ups for last few nights
<foobarry> skyrim++
<MooDoo> just thinking about an elgato to record some xbox gameplay :D
<MooDoo> while running do-release-upgrade on one of my servers ;)
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<Guest99393> Good morning all!  Happy Monday, and happy World Penguin Day! ð
<knightwise> hey brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning knightwise
<MooDoo> morning you guys
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo
<MooDoo> upgraded a server at work to LTS - Check.
<foobarry> found my blanket to warm me agains thte cold - tick
<foobarry> http://www.engadget.com/2016/04/25/logitech-retro-game-display-160-keyboard/
<foobarry> somebody spent a lot of time doing that
<SuperMatt> mental
<MooDoo> looks good though :)
<davmor2> JamesTait: bit old school from me for today /!\ note open at you own risk It's Frank Zappa https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PrV5mWATfxk
<davmor2> tis a great guitar solo though :)
<MooDoo> howdy davmor2
<davmor2> MooDoo: howdo
<knightwise> Chatting with prince .. on AOL http://www.hanselman.com/blog/ChattingWithPrinceOnAOLIn1999ThisWayIsModern.aspx
<zmoylan-pi> no vinyl knightwise, cds ripped to mp3s for me..
<MooDoo> zmoylan-pi: same for me, although i might have picked ogg over mp3 for some reason :)
<MartijnVdS> flac all the way
<MartijnVdS> then you can make ogg and mp3 all day long, whichever is in favour this week
<MooDoo> :)
<bashrc> I standardised on mp3 a long time ago, even though I knew it had patent issues
<zmoylan-pi> well my dumbphone can't handle ogg and not in the mood for converting all my mp3s to ogg either :-)
<bashrc> mainly because mp3 just works on all the things
<MooDoo> might be of interest to someone - https://channel9.msdn.com/Blogs/Seth-Juarez/Windows-Subsystem-for-Linux-Architectural-Overview
 * awilkins has been an Ogg Vorbis person for at least 15 years
<awilkins> Android plays it. Deliberately sought out a player that played it, back in the day.
<awilkins> Ogg pretty much works on all the things now too because it's OSS and adding it to your device is a free feature
<awilkins> Never developed a FLAC habit
<awilkins> Storage was at a premium back then.
 * awilkins implores people to get off his lawn
<popey> My ears don't value FLAC
<zmoylan-pi> when i first stsrted ripping cds it was an overnight job for to rip a cd on ancient amd-k6-2 processor. and mp3 was /good enough/
<foobarry> i watched force awakens on a projector screen at home on say
<foobarry> sat
 * diplo agrees with all above comments about ogg/mp3, never saw the point in flac
<foobarry> sent the audio to a guitar amp via my bluetooth audio thingy
<foobarry> it was epic
<foobarry> thought about pluging chromecast into the projector but what about redirecting audio?
<knightwise> if your projector supports audio via hdmi there is no problem
<popey> i think he wants to send the audio to  somewhere else
<foobarry> no audio out from the projector though
<foobarry> only a crappy internal speaker
<foobarry> i hear roki streaming sticks might support private listening
<foobarry> so your teenagers can stream to TV and listen via their phone with earphones
<knightwise> you can stream to the cromecast audio ?
<davmor2> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36123444 ouch
<Myrtti> I don't think I've ever walked into a one
<DJones> I'm quite impressed with my chromecast 2, watching video streamed from Chrome over wifi from the internet to a tv works well
 * davmor2 just leaves this here as the song stuck in his head https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P8JEm4d6Wu4
<knightwise> i use it daily :) we dont have cable anymore . just a plex server, netflix and a chromecast
 * DJones debates whether to upgrade a 12.04 server to 14.04
<MooDoo> DJones: just did my lts to lts :)
<MooDoo> well not directly
<DJones> I'm not going to 16.04 yet, I'll wait till thats officially released with 16.04.1, I'll just stick with 14.04 if I upgrade
<popey> good call :)
<diplo> Does anyone *just* run VM's broadband line here ?
<DJones> Just hope they remember to update http://changelogs.ubuntu.com/meta-release  so that users can update rather than pici haveing to chase dev's a couple of hours after release
<diplo> Debating cancelling Sky altogether and use on demand services instead
 * diplo doesn't include knightwise as he's not local :)
<TwistedLucidity> diplo: I'm on VM, but have a TV package; althought we mostly use the catch-up services due to live broadcast being <nearly swore> sub-optimal in the quality dimension
<TwistedLucidity> Cite: Nat Geo, History, Discovery and the plethora of pointless shopping channels.
<TwistedLucidity> Have often considered switching to cable-only and just paying for Netflix or summat.
<TwistedLucidity> Although the lack of GNU\Linux support can often be an issue
<awilkins> Netflix works fine on Chrome
<awilkins> iPlayer works
<awilkins> The other catchup things are a bit spotty
<awilkins> Netflix and iPlayer have gone HTML5
<awilkins> The Flash ones that insist on HAL for DRM don't work (you used to be able to furtle about and get them working but I've not been able to on the most recent generation of them)
<awilkins> So no 4oD (or whatever it mutated into) etc.
<awilkins> And for some reason my TV vendor hasn't got catchup apps except iPlayer
<awilkins> Panasonic, if anyone wants to avoid their products like the plague (I got it free)
<foobarry> 4od works
<foobarry> woops, misread chrome as chromecast
<foobarry> ah,the simple pleasure of strawberry laces
<Myrtti> I just had the simple pleasure of chocolate froyo
<diplo> Yeah exactly the reason for it for me awilkins / TwistedLucidity ( sorry didn't notice the disconnect :D )
<diplo> Only thing I'd miss from Sky is F1 but I guess I could be naughty for that when it's not on C4
 * TwistedLucidity find F1 rather dull
<TwistedLucidity> diplo: Have things improved? Is there actual passing on track, or is it all done in the puts/lawsuits afterwards?
<diddledan_> fun: #1574681 raised from an email by upstream winetricks dev reports that wine and winetricks are woefully out of date
<diddledan_> no bot?
<diddledan_> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/winetricks/+bug/1574681
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 1574681 in winetricks (Ubuntu) "Merge or sync with Debian unstable" [Undecided,New]
<diddledan_> silly bot
<diplo> Its definitely better TwistedLucidity, I record it though and skip lots now adays
<diplo> Not sure if that's down to a busier life/kids though or just that it's boring at times
<diplo> A lot of tracks are follow the leader which annoys me! China was great last week though
<diddledan_> I missed it
<diddledan_> wonder if ch4 has it on chatchup
<diplo> Defo worth a watch
<diplo> Used to be 40D ?
<diddledan_> aye, 4OD now All4
<diplo> Didn't have lvie anyhoo, it will be highlights I guess
<foobarry> diplo: i'm a highlights man now
<foobarry> children have made my life too busy to watch 2hrs of F1
<foobarry> because i have to squeeze in a lot of TV in the evening
<foobarry> fixed my elasticsearch but struggling to delete a load of indices
<diplo> foobarry: I think that is part of it for me, I used to watch it live, I now record it and watch it when kids are in bed or outside playing
<davmor2> just incase people forgot about it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xs3BXVTF7mw still blows me away at how many musicians it take to replicate a synth/computer :)
<zmoylan-pi> i coulld get a c64 with a sid chip... https://twitter.com/angryearthling/status/724651437096075264/photo/1
<Azelphur> Anyone know a place to get good, cheap Micro USB Cables? Ideally 3 metres, Fabric, 28/24AWG? I bought some off CPC and they only carried a 0.4A charge so returned them.
<Myrtti> dunno about AWG, but
<Myrtti> http://www.wooke.co.uk/Micro_USB_Cable_-_Fantasy_3M98FT_ChargeOriginal_Charge_and_Sync/p2013229_13392731.aspx
<Azelphur> Â£12? you lost the cheap part too :P
<Myrtti> I concentrated on the 'good'
<Azelphur> heck, Volutz o a pack of 5 3M cables, fabric, and 28/24AWG they are Â£17.98 :)
<Azelphur> Volutz do a pack*
<Myrtti> I've got a habit of breaking USB cables, and I've had that cable from kickstarter for a good while now
<Myrtti> and they still work, in comparison to breaking it after two months
<Azelphur> yea I don't tend to break them, just want one that carries a decent charge
<Azelphur> I know Monoprice does great 28/24AWG cables for $1.62, but shipping to UK is $40 -_-
<daftykins> what's the use-case? a friend brought over a cheap microUSB of a few feet and it seems to struggle to keep an xbox one controller running
<Azelphur> daftykins: charging phones and such
<daftykins> why long? that's the exact situation you don't want to be pushing distance really
<daftykins> diddledan_: haha just had one of my own disks go now ;) diagnosed it from slow to skip music tracks... oof!
<Azelphur> daftykins: just usb cables to go near the sofa, so you can still use your phone while it's charging, I have 3M Cables that do 2A
<Myrtti> daftykins: I use my three meter one in the bed, it's just nicer. It's also handy when traveling
<daftykins> you people are insane :)
<Myrtti> daftykins: *shrug* saved us on the California honeymoon several times
<Azelphur> think I might have found a winner, https://www.amazon.co.uk/ULTRICS%C2%AE-Premium-shielding-Charging-Android/dp/B017O8TKR4
<Azelphur> Â£10 for a pack of 5, tested to sustain over 2.5A, 24 AWG, not fabric but can't have everything ;)
<Myrtti> charger had a three meter cable and we plugged the three meter USB on it on top, worked wonders when the hotel room had one socket in the hallway.
<Azelphur> I love my USB cable tester, allows me to filter out the bad from the good :)
<daftykins> that's some pretty niche usage right thar
<Azelphur> in other news, I've been having so much fun with AliExpress, can pick up so many silly little gadgets and only end up spending a tenner
#ubuntu-uk 2016-04-26
<daftykins> https://youtu.be/L5wy0YhCuuA?t=17 aww yeah
<daftykins> my inner child wants that model :)
<mappps> hi all
<knightwise> morning peeps
<brmbrmcar> hello
<MooDoo> morning all
<SuperMatt> morning
<MooDoo> how are you SuperMatt ?
<SuperMatt> yeah, I'm all right, thanks
<SuperMatt> you?
<knightwise> Yo everyone :)
<MooDoo> SuperMatt: yeah fine, bit down in the dumps but ok
<MooDoo> yo knightwise
<MooDoo> :)
<SuperMatt> why so glum, chum?
<MooDoo> SuperMatt: no idea lol :) just that time of the day maybe, not sure what I want career wise yada yada yada
<knightwise> Chin up MooDoo !
<MooDoo> cheers :)
<diplo> Morning all
<diplo> Not enjoying the new job then MooDoo ?
<davmor2> Morning all you funksters
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<knightwise> hey brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning knightwise
<Guest6158> Good morning all!  Happy Tuesday, and happy Hug An Australian Day! ð
<Guest6158> Dag nabbit.  I forgot I need to fix my SASL auth.
<zmoylan-pi> quick someon report Guest6158 for impersonating james
 * zmoylan-pi suspects lonely australian...
 * JamesTait whistles innocently.
 * zmoylan-pi starts shazam to see if the tune is waltzing matilda...
<davmor2> JamesTait: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YPwtJ89jes4, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=26ELh7P2ZtA, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=soJBGLP7Akk
 * zmoylan-pi adds and the band played waltzing matilda to the oz fest of music... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WG48Ftsr3OI
<MooDoo> :)
 * awilkins engages Wily upgrade on main desktop
<awilkins> "COuld not install gconf2"
<awilkins> dependency problems
<awilkins> That's... bad, right?
<awilkins> Upgrade thing is now in infinite loop of complaining about gconf2
<awilkins> Oh dear
 * diplo downloading the CODE Libreoffice software from Collabra, anyone else tried it yet ?
<awilkins> Have filed bug 1575126
<lubotu3> bug 1575126 in update-manager (Ubuntu) "Upgrade from Xenial to Wily failed : "Could not install gconf2"" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1575126
<DJones> awilkins: Should that be upgrade from Wily to Xenial, or are you trying Xenial to Yakkety
<awilkins> Yeah, should be Wily to Xenial
<awilkins> Sorry
<knightwise> #install-all-the-kernell!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
<awilkins> System is now fubar
<popey> morning
<popey> :)
<knightwise> Morning popey , Laura's shennanigans are great ! #thisweekspodcast
<popey> yeah!
<knightwise> The best way to learn how to fly , is by reading data from the other planes black box
<knightwise> #Suicide presentation !
<zmoylan-pi> it's called tombstone technology
<zmoylan-pi> tech that is only fixed when enough people are hurt
<knightwise> we call it 'The squeek principle"
<knightwise> shut down a server and wait for somebody to squeeck
<MooDoo> might give that one a try knightwise :)
<awilkins> Aaand, that escalated quickly
<awilkins> System is now borked
<awilkins> Spews a stack trace during kernel boot and dies
<SuperMatt> nice work
<SuperMatt> what did you do to manage that?
<zmoylan-pi> that's the anti nsa upgrade... :-/
<awilkins> I) GUI upgrade to Xenial II) Failed with an infinite loop III) Killed upgrade IV) tried apt-get -f install V) did dpkg --configure -a as instructed VI) That ended up with a loop of fail VII) rebooted, login now a loop of fail VIII) recovery console IX) apt-get -f install (does stuff apparently happy) X) apt-get dist-upgrade (does a lot of stuff.... says "Started Braille services" and hangs)
<awilkins> XI) Hard reset XII) Hard crash on kernel load, photographed stack trace for posterity, downloading Xenial image now....
<zmoylan-pi> hopefully a fully backed up system? or will a live distro allow you to boot and copy data from system?
<awilkins> Oh, Xa) Did a ctrl-alt-gr REISUB to make sure discs weren't left unsynced
<awilkins> Home folder is on a separate drive
<zmoylan-pi> \o/
<awilkins> And I have a full backup in a NAS
<SuperMatt> then just reinstall from scratch!
<awilkins> Yup
<zmoylan-pi> double \o/
<awilkins> (of home folder, not nutty enough to back up root)
<awilkins> But now reduced performance as I go to do task and go "ARRGH NOW I HAVE TO INSTALL THE SOFTWARE FIRST"
<SuperMatt> I find I can get myself back up to speed after an hour, on average
<SuperMatt> though it depends what you need to install
<SuperMatt> I tend to stick with defaults and keep my machines very light
<awilkins> I do dev, so I have a large number of large things
<awilkins> Java SDKs etc
<SuperMatt> gah, yes
<SuperMatt> that's a pain
<SuperMatt> though some might say it's a good idea to put all that gubbins into a container that runs off another disk too
<SuperMatt> I'm playing with lxd right now, and it's kinda interesting
<SuperMatt> I'm testing how to migrate containers between machines, which is quite cool
<SuperMatt> containers > vms, IMO
<awilkins> Arggh, now I have to muck about with UEFI mode installation
<SuperMatt> I find with Ubuntu that it's relatively easy
<awilkins> Yeah, it's not to obad now
<awilkins> Wondering whether to do "reinstall" or custom install
<awilkins> I trust custom install more
<awilkins> NOOOO I left "encrypt my home folder" checked
<awilkins> I hate unpicking that
<awilkins> Hooray, it didn't "take"
<awilkins> I guess my old home folder config override it
<awilkins> Now booted to crusty bad-res-o-vision desktop
 * awilkins installs filthy non-hippy drivers
<SuperMatt> non-hippy ftw
<SuperMatt> I completely understand why some people want everything to be non-proprietary, but 1) everyone is different, and 2) I wish they'd stop telling me I'm bad for being different
<awilkins> Well, back to a desktop with most of my files and settings intact in less than an hour
<awilkins> Well, back to a desktop with most of my files and settings intact in less than an hour
<awilkins> That's about a bazillion percent better than recovering from a Windows catastrophe
<awilkins> Esp. when you install programs and they're set up exactly how you liked them
<zmoylan-pi> i used to have a hard drive with ghost images of my desktop when i used windows turned a week long rebuild into a 30minute restore...
<awilkins> Yeah, if only you could do Windows as a kind of layered container OS
<awilkins> Install new software on top of the base container and reboot (given that it makes you reboot for virtually everything anyway)
<zmoylan-pi> i did also fill my ipod classic with portable apps for windows which saved a lot of time on new systems...
<awilkins> Bah, why do some package installs update the applications menu instantly and some take a reboot
<zmoylan-pi> on linux i keep a lot of config files on thumb drive so that vim newsbeuter are quickly configured to my liking
<awilkins> It's next to impossible to do that for the dve tools though
<zmoylan-pi> sadly true
<awilkins> They must splat about a billion extra keys into the registry
<awilkins> I managed to get the configuration for stepping debugging from IIS running ASP classic straight to VB6 DLLs working once
<awilkins> And once only
<awilkins> Wish we'd had snapshottable VMs back then...
<awilkins> It's such an arcane thing involving meddling with things wot man was not meant to meddle with
<awilkins> It probably also creates an IIS instance that can reach back into time and prevent your parents meeting, so it's not all bad that it's hard to do
<zmoylan-pi> ...so if we get root we can prevent bill gates....
<AuroraAvenue> Meixu 5 Pro's out Â£286.52 pretty much - https://redd.it/4gidxs
<diddledan_> anyone into devops? https://supergiant.io/
<diddledan_> built on-top of kubernetes
<AuroraAvenue_> Mark is live ! http://siliconangle.tv/openstack-summit-2016/
<awilkins> Thought that was Supergiant Games for a mo
<diddledan_> AuroraAvenue_, thanks
<AuroraAvenue_> k
<diddledan_> mm, big data :-p
<AuroraAvenue_> diddledan_: What ya think of that ? Mark maybe going to the moon ...
<diddledan_> he is our favourite astronaut afterall :-p
<AuroraAvenue_> the moon is made of cheese.
<AuroraAvenue_> anyway .. Q&A in 5 minutes too ! http://ubuntuonair.com/
<diddledan_> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-36138998
<AuroraAvenue_> diddledan_: Yeah I saw that last night.
<AuroraAvenue_> Apparently none of the steam community were interested.
<diddledan_> they've got mad max!
<diddledan_> \o/
<diddledan_> I think it's a good idea
<diddledan_> mostly because it'll play on linux
<diddledan_> valve are pretty much the only company that are investing in cross-platform
<diddledan_> only mainstream co I mena
<diddledan_> there are obviously companies in the server space etc
<awilkins> The titles on there now are utter bobbins though
<diddledan_> aye
<awilkins> Who wants to see Jennifer Aniston in 3D....
<diddledan_> I'm just looking through the list
<diddledan_> lol
<davmor2> awilkins: wow they're got utter bobbins already?  that's only just come out at the cinema :D
<awilkins> I hear Netflix have optioned the rights to Utter Bobbins 2 though
<davmor2> man that sucks now I've got to get netflix too
<davmor2> awilkins: I might just skip 2 and go straight for Utter Bobbins 3 3D instead
<diddledan_> davmor2, they'll do the clever title naming by combining 3 and 3d to make it "Utter Bobbins 3D"
<davmor2> diddledan_: Utt3r Bobbins 3D
<davmor2> it's like you've seen the posters already :D
<diddledan_> what was the one that went for 3DD (pronounced three-double-dee)
<awilkins> The only other film that went for 3DD was Total Recall, but they went for two-dee-three-double-dee
<davmor2> diddledan_: Piranha
<diddledan_> bingo
<diddledan_> well done - good memory there
<diddledan_> because, boobies
<directhex> urgh "devops"
<diddledan_> when a hacked company gets it right: https://www.troyhunt.com/100-data-breaches-later-have-i-been-pwned-gets-its-first-self-submission/
<diddledan_> directhex, but ops that are deved
<directhex> devs are bad at ops
<directhex> devops is the art of "it builds on my laptop, let's put my laptop in production"
<diddledan_> ops are great at dev tho
<diddledan_> lmao
<diplo> That's the staff at my place directhex :D
<diddledan_> I know, why don't we actually put laptops into the datacentre?
<diplo> They do stuff like that already diddledan_ :/
<diddledan_> good good :-p
<awilkins> Think it's more the art of "lets construct the same environment as production on the laptop and make people dev in it"
<davmor2> IT'S SNOWING
<bashrc> happy christmas
<davmor2> \o/ SNOW!!!!!!! \o/
<AuroraAvenue_> snowing here too.
<zmoylan-pi> snow predicted here for high ground tonight... so should be grand. had a bit of stafing with hail earlier mind
<AuroraAvenue_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IVYfz6Sh5gY
<Myrtti> wwweeeeellll
<Myrtti> this is great.
<Myrtti> keepass keeps crashing :-(
<brmbrmcar> Snowing earlier.
<zmoylan-pi> it's a tie in with the release of new episodes of game of thrones... :-)
<DJones> Does anybody use the minecraft lifeboat community, if so http://motherboard.vice.com/read/another-day-another-hack-7-million-emails-and-hashed-passwords-for-minecraft
<diddledan_> https://insights.ubuntu.com/2016/04/26/flying-mobile-base-stations-are-coming-to-the-uk/
<zmoylan-pi> don't open the window... you'll let the wifi out...
<diddledan_> :-o
<diddledan_> apparently wifi doesn't work when the power's out
<diddledan_> seems odd that
<zmoylan-pi> and in a windy country they will struggle to maintain position. a local business in dublin had a blimp as advertising but steady wind blew it so that was bouncing off roofs of houses a few 100 yards away
<diddledan_> mac sales fell 12% year-on-year
<m0nkey_> thats because my 4 year old mba is still going strong :)
<m0nkey_> why bother upgrading the hardware when the current software works just fine?
<zmoylan-pi> and how down are pc sales at the same time?
<zmoylan-pi> about 11% http://www.oregonlive.com/silicon-forest/index.ssf/2016/04/pc_sales_down_sharply_industry.html
<diddledan_> m0nkey_, don't say that, you know Apple are gonna drop support this year for older macs
<m0nkey_> I'll just continue to roll with what i got until it breaks
<m0nkey_> Or install Ubuntu :)
<zmoylan-pi> as long as rasp pis run linux i should be good :-)
<m0nkey_> My mac isn't exactly old.. it's an i5
<diddledan_> m0nkey_, your definition of old and apples rarely coincide
<m0nkey_> the day it becomes 'unsupported' is the day i continue to use it :)
<diddledan_> :-o
<diddledan_> but. apple REQUIRE you to upgrade!
<m0nkey_> screw that
<diddledan_> where's shauno, we need to apple fanboi-ism
<zmoylan-pi> no no they require you to get new stuff and pass old stuff down the food chain to hook others
<diddledan_> some*
<diddledan_> https://twitter.com/notwaldorf/status/725070995761946624
<daftykins> i'm still wondering if i'll be able to sell on an ancient model macbook, because they've long since abandoned it for OS X updates - yet the allure of fruity tech may pull someone in
<zmoylan-pi> a hipster hipster...
<zmoylan-pi> wanting to show off ancient mac to poor modern macbook toting mates
<daftykins> in fairness it's not half bad with the SSD that's in it
<daftykins> just the immorality of selling a machine with an insecure OS...
<zmoylan-pi> mac as much as i dislike them do make very nice hardware out of mediocre components
<zmoylan-pi> ms gets over their morality... :-P
<daftykins> have you read about the new skylake refreshed 12" toy macbook that now includes tamper evidence screws to show if a customer has opened it?
<daftykins> not much reason to mind you, no upgrades are possible
<daftykins> well the past couple of years have shown than open source is no safer
<diddledan_> :-o
<diddledan_> that's evil
<diddledan_> tamper-evident screws is too much
<zmoylan-pi> i'm sure the screw driver to open the tamper proof screws will be available soon
<daftykins> no they're actually screwheads filled with disintegrating material so an attempt at putting a driver in crumbles it
<daftykins> game over!
<daftykins> it's on the ifixit.com teardown if you're interested
 * zmoylan-pi wonders if using it in high vibration location will damage the filler in the screw heads
<daftykins> :>
<zmoylan-pi> i've had pcs that kept failing as vibration killed the harddrives till i noticed and placed the pcs on bubblewrap
<daftykins> anywho a kind fellow is going to post me an old 2GB SODIMM that i can throw in that macbook to bump it up to 4GB, then i can perhaps risk obtaining an AC adapter and/or battery and sell the thing on
<daftykins> what was the environment?
<zmoylan-pi> point of sales in a shop.  but traffic for some reason made building vibrate enough to kill discs
<zmoylan-pi> when 1 disc fails you replace it, when 3 fail you start looking for wacky things.  bubbleweap sorted it
<daftykins> :D
<diddledan_> dad had something like that - some equipment in a basement somewhere in london that he kept getting called to repair - the client had no explanation as to why it died and it did it regular-like. turns out after investigating and drawing blank that one time he realised that it only died when put beside a particular wall
<daftykins> o0
<diddledan_> they followed the thread and discovered that the electricity board had a trunk behind that wall
<daftykins> ooh so high current EMI or such like
<diddledan_> aye.. several MW through the wire causing unbearable magnetic field
<daftykins> clearly the guy was Magneto
<zmoylan-pi> i've told you of the pc that kept corrupting os and data 10-15 foot from rail line.  in the end i pointed out it was also right beside freezer motor
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> http://en.blitzortung.org/live_lightning_maps.php <-- i'd love to set up a detector of my own for this site
<zmoylan-pi> my brother found a doozy working in a cement truck. turbo diesel engines burning out bearings. unheard off till he pointed out the turbo was spinning when engine was off and cool due to were they were parked
<daftykins> how would parking location affect that?
<zmoylan-pi> they parked the trucks in cooling tower designed to funnel air for various processes to shelter trucks. but the high airflow got the turbos spinning, cold engine with no lubricant killed them
<zmoylan-pi> all previous vehicles were non turbo
#ubuntu-uk 2016-04-27
<ball> Hello m0nkey_
<daftykins> uh oh
<ball> daftykins: What's up?
<ball> Did your thing arrive?
<daftykins> hey :) not much, just made some pasta 'n' sauce. yep! new case in and PC put together
<daftykins> good times were had for all of the 1hr i put it together
<ball> Ah nice. How's it working?
<daftykins> all ace - although i've kept the old graphics card so it's still got one foot in the past at least
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/99kp0ykwzdj48ez/AABs_DXJAJvNCwdp4OaTTAxMa?dl=0
<daftykins> few snaps there
<ball> I'm sure it's more up-to-date than mine.
<daftykins> well i replaced a december 2007 core 2 quad + DDR2 build :>
<ball> I wonder how old my processor is.
<daftykins> intel?
 * ball nods
<ball> Looks like it's about the same age: 2008
<ball> Atom 330.
<daftykins> oof :D
<daftykins> that's the one in my retired HTPC
<ball> It would suck as an HTPC.
<ball> Still, I'm essentially running it headless.
<ball> Tempted to buy an SSD or a new hard disk for it though.
<daftykins> nah mine has the nvidia ion1 graphics, which is plenty for H.264 1080p decode
<daftykins> ideal little nettop thing :) 40GB intel value SSD, ubuntu with Kodi on top
<daftykins> just retired it as i got an amazon FireTV which does the job in a silent package
 * ball nods
<ball> I wondered whether you had an Ion. Wouldn't work at all well otherwise.
<ball> Mine has a D945
<daftykins> ah har
<daftykins> to be honest atoms of that era are too weak really to even benefit from an SSD if a desktop OS is there, if it's a server that'll be fun
<daftykins> or fine
 * ball nods
<ball> Mine runs NetBSD/i386.  I used to run amd64 on it but that recently broke.
<ball> Not sure there's anyone left to fix it
<daftykins> hrmm o0
<ball> My daughter has an Ubuntu PC that seems to work surprisingly well.
<ball> (given its weak AMD E-350 chip)
<daftykins> is it a full unity release too?
<ball> For years she ran Xubuntu but I thought I'd try Ubuntu on it last time I reimaged it so yes, she has Unity on there.
<daftykins> ah, not too shabby
<ball> I have an E-450 box that I could put Linux on too.
<daftykins> :D
<ball> Considered an AM1 board but I can't justify the purchase.
<daftykins> i go through those struggles! took a while to cave into buying the above, half the SATA controllers in the old machine failing/going funny started to help though :D
<ball> I'm tempted to try a Linux machine at the office.
<daftykins> i remember getting told no once, at a new job D:
<ball> I made a point of not asking.
<ball> I've had a BSD desktop at the office for getting on towards four years now.
<daftykins> hehe, that's a better strategy... that place didn't even have a license for me so i had to run the trial until expiry
<ball> I need to go and lay down before I fall down.
<daftykins> definitely comes in handy having one of each at times though, when those situations arise that you can only think of a solution on another platform
<ball> Hopefully catch you tomorrow.
<daftykins> take care \o
<ball> Goodnight
<diddledan_> "I'm new here, and I keep hearing about some fella called Jake Weary. Can anyone tell me what department he works in?"
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> please say that happened for real
<diddledan_> lol
<daftykins> lemme tell you a tale of how dumb i've been for the last 4 years
<daftykins> i picked up some jeans from a shop in Miami Beach back in 2012 but i found them pretty weird 'cause they had this lump sewn in under the denim just above the left hand pocket
<daftykins> i picked up some jeans from a shop in Miami Beach back in 2012 but i found them pretty weird 'cause they had this lump sewn in under the denim just above the left hand pocket
<daftykins> oops
<diddledan_> up button next to the enterkey? it is on this keyboard too
<daftykins> 4 years later, i realise that's not stitching at the top by the belt... it's the opening to another pocket i didn't know about :|
<diddledan_> haha
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/gheyq1tnfpaewci/AAAi8kpygRsuxJbclVMbA2BDa?dl=0
<daftykins> :|
<diddledan_> was there anything you'd previously lost inside?
<daftykins> nah i was just cursoring back in irssi to the lines typed and failed hard
<diddledan_> it is well hidden
<daftykins> someone tells me the above is a pumice stone the jeans would've been stonewashed with :D
<daftykins> so newp they were there from the beginning
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<daftykins> g'day \o
<SuperMatt> morning
<brobostigon> morning daftykins qnd SuperMatt
<popey> Morning
<daftykins> this morning, i'm watching a man attempt to slay a dragon!
<MooDoo> morning all
<davmor2> Good Morning
<popey> yo
<davmor2> popey: just the man, if you open music app and play an album does the album art go off the screen slightly in portrait mode?
<popey> davmor2: which device?
<davmor2> popey: the one you don't have, and any you do
<popey> wat
<popey> there's a lot I don't have
<popey> I only have a bq e4.5
<davmor2> popey: meh
<Guest50895> Good morning all!  Happy Wednesday, and happy Tell a Story Day! ð  ð®
 * Guest50895 grumbles
 * diplo tells a story of JamesTait loosing his username overnight :P
<JamesTait> It's because I upgraded to Xenial on Sunday night, which brought with it an upgrade to a version of irssi that support SASL auth, so my SASL auth script is now not loaded because it clashes with the built-in support.
<JamesTait> I'm sure it's an easy fix, when I get around to searching for it.
<Myrtti> /help network
<Myrtti> only bit I needed to change
 * diplo having to fix php apps to work with php7 :/
<diplo> arg!
<davmor2> JamesTait: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AVbQo3IOC_A
 * JamesTait chuckles @ davmor2 
 * diplo is trying lxc now instead, hope I don't break anything
<diplo> Got one up and running now, trying a different version next, then a different OS
<diplo> Anyone else use it in here ?
<moreati> morning all, what script/program/$thing generates the _official_ live 16.04 .iso files? I'm creating a custom image, and the various wiki pages on this still refer to e.g. 8.04
<MooDoo> :)
<brobostigon> https://wiki.debian.org/DebianCustomCD
<davmor2> JamesTait: first song I could think of that had story telling in it :)
<davmor2> JamesTait: the other would be https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gf1WT8VEZxk
<moreati> brobostigon: is that a random wiki page you found on the topic of cusomtising CDs, or _the_ instructions followed by whoever creates the official signed-by-canonical isos?
<brobostigon> moreati: i did a search on how to create debian like cd images, of which ubuntu cd images are as well, being based on debian.
<moreati> brobostigon: I've gone through that step already, thank you
<brobostigon> ok, yw.
<popey> moreati: i dont think the process is super well documented
<foobarry>  whats the best font for a CV? for both pdf or printed
<zmoylan-pi> comic sans... :-P
<zmoylan-pi> but only for marketing jobs as those guys are crazy
<zmoylan-pi> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/06/12/fonts-to-use-on-resume_n_7562714.html
<foobarry> my kerning seems all screwed up
<popey> Ubuntu font
<popey> Friend of mine used Ubuntu font on his CV. Got the job.
<Myrtti> :-D
<zmoylan-pi> would that work at microsoft? :-)
<moreati> popey: ok, ty. I'll try to muddle through
<popey> a few options exist
<popey> live-build is one I have used
<popey> http://pinguyos.com/2015/09/pinguy-builder-an-app-to-backupremix-buntu/ is another - not tried that
<MooDoo> https://www.carkeys.co.uk/news/backless-child-booster-seats-to-be-banned-this-year for all you booster seat mums and dads
<diplo> Both mine over 125 and one over 135, so not to worried here, I do see their point but it became a logistical nightmare, 3 kids under 135cm and you wouldn't fit all the seats in the back
<diplo> ah right at the bottom, if you already own one you can carry on sing it
<diplo> How they'll prove / enforce that is beyond me :)
<MooDoo> my lad is 7 and is too tall for a booster
<diplo> yeah my 7 year old is just about there, my 9 year old is nigh on 5 foot!
<MooDoo> diplo: yeah my 7 year old is hitting 5 ft
<MooDoo> diplo: no idea where he gets it from lol
<DJones> Sheesh, my 8.5 year old is only 22 inches, could be because he's a dog though
<davmor2> MooDoo: blame his Mom
<DJones> And no doubt better behaved that a 5ft tall 7 year old child
<MooDoo> davmor2: you mean mum? ;) DJones yeah :) lol
<MooDoo> I blame the tall dad lol
 * DJones wonders how tall the milkman was? :)
<davmor2> MooDoo: No really any one would think you were tall you lanky muppet
<DJones> We used to have a postman that had 13 kids
<DJones> to different mothers
<MooDoo> davmor2: nah i'm a short arse really :)
<DJones> ugh, blurred vision
<diplo> yeah it sucks a bit, my eldest is in 14 year old clothes now
<MooDoo> diplo: it does suck when the dr say my lad could potentially reach 7ft
<DJones> MooDoo: How tall are you and the rest of the family, my wife's cousin is around 6ft 4in and skinny as a butchers pencil, but she has a similar sized father and a mother that just about gets to 5ft
<diplo> hahah MooDoo :P
<MooDoo> DJones: my dad is 6'1 I'm 6'6 misses is about 5'6
<DJones> Sounds similar to the cousins family, my wife is around 5ft 8" with a 6ft parents, thankfully just a bit shorter than me (apart from the bit where she can nick my clothes and they fit her AND NO, I haven't tried her clothes to see if they'll fit)
<MooDoo> lol
<DJones> T-Shirts, track suit bottoms....all go  missing
<knightwise> hey everyone
<diddledan_> moo
<knightwise> hey diddledan_
<knightwise> how you doing today
<diddledan_> I'm good thanks
 * knightwise is checking out Trello
<knightwise> thinking of using it for my company and for some of my clients.
<davmor2> knightwise: 'owdo
<MooDoo> I use trello :D
<MooDoo> well occasionally :)
<knightwise> MooDoo: you pleased with it ?
<knightwise> i think the tool can work for us , but i'm not entirely sure how to organise my processes
<davmor2> knightwise: I use it daily it's great, Break the lanes down sensibly and you'll find that it will work for you, Normal layout is Backlog all the things that need to be done, In Progress things being done and Done things that are completed as a minimum
<davmor2> but obviously you can add more lanes as needed
<webpigeon> speaking of project management boardy things, taiga is also a thing: https://tree.taiga.io/
<webpigeon> it's FOSS (based on django) so you can run it on your own kit at well if you wanted to
<gpd> any reports of /etc/apache2/apache2.conf messing up / missing?
<gpd> just updated 15.10 to 16.04 and apache2 won't start with old conf file and reinstall doesn't replace a new conf
<gpd> failing line is IncludeOptional mods-enabled/*.load
<gpd> looks like it is php5 module failing - change to a2enmod php7.0
<gpd> fixed
<gpd> very quiet here
<diddledan_> sshh, it's sleepy time!
<zmoylan-pi> we're hunting wabbits
<gpd> its fix all the breakages after upgrade time... :(
<gpd> courier-authdaemon also borked
<brmbrmcar> Nae hunting rabbits!
<diddledan_> I really don't want to meet a hunting rabbit
<zmoylan-pi> no holy hand grenade of antioch?
<gpd> right - fixed that - sleep quite tempting. good luck with the wabbits
<zmoylan-pi> o/
 * brmbrmcar huts zmoylan-pi
<brmbrmcar> s/huts/hunts/
 * zmoylan-pi engages predator cloak and waits...
 * brmbrmcar attacks
 * brmbrmcar destroys zmoylan-pi's multiverse
 * zmoylan-pi laughs and watches brmbrmcar's thermal image...
 * brmbrmcar destroys zmoylan-pi's laughs
#ubuntu-uk 2016-04-28
<m0nkey_> High score: http://i.imgur.com/bo1Ivge.jpg
<daftykins> :)
<daftykins> they really don't work those things
<daftykins> http://betanews.com/2016/04/27/windows-10-interrupts-live-tv-broadcast/
<daftykins> g'mornin' folks
<Myrtti> 10/10 can recommend finding your wallet from underneath the sofa after three days of searching
<Myrtti> helps sleeping considerably
<daftykins> \o/
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/ceiwnpktzfgs3yu/VID_20160428_071110.mp4?dl=0
<daftykins> bonus cat video to celebrate your success!
<Myrtti> \o/
<MooDoo> morning all
<knightwise> hey MooDoo , how are you doing today
<MooDoo> knightwise: yeah I'm good thanks :)
<MooDoo> you?
<popey> *yawn*
<popey> morning
<brmbrmcar> Morning...
<bittin> morning
<SuperMatt> morning all
<awilkins> Has the backup program changed for Xenial?
<awilkins> The backup wizard keeps popping up and failing, and lo, duplicity is not installed
<awilkins> This is an old home folder with my old settings, so are they directing xenial to use a different backup program when the default has changed?
<awilkins> Aha : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Python/FoundationsXPythonVersions
<awilkins> Looks like it's been demoted from the install media for being written in Python 2.7 not 3
<awilkins> Yet deja-dup (which depends on it to work) remains.
<awilkins> Presumably it prompts you to install it when you configure your first backup
<popey> awilkins: interesting. I'll ask the desktop team (who are sat next to me) if they're aware of this.
<popey> actually i can test this. i am on a clean 16.04 install here
<awilkins> I guess an upgrade would work
<awilkins> Or they implemented that prompt and it does it when you configure 1st backup
<Myrtti> I upgraded and I've got duplicity installed.
<Myrtti> probably a worthless observation, but
<popey> http://imgur.com/gvkwydA yes, it prompts
<popey> that's quite nice
<awilkins> I am a bit of an edge case : fresh install with restored home folder
<awilkins> Ah, now getting "BackendException : could not initialise backend: No module named gi.repository"
<popey> i dont think thats an edge case
<popey> thats the exact same clean install i have :)
<popey> https://answers.launchpad.net/deja-dup/+question/276745
<knightwise> popey: would you do an inplace upgrade from 14.04 now or wait for 16.04.1 ?
<davmor2> Morning all
<popey> seems maybe python-gi is missing?
<popey> knightwise: up to you :)
<awilkins> python-gi is present for python3 but not the python that Duplicity uses
<daftykins> knightwise: i'd ask myself if i really need anything in the new, other than the shiny feel of being on current ;)
<knightwise> I have the xps13 , and i'm using it at work so ... i'm kinda carefull.
<popey> awilkins: if you could file a bug I'd appreciate it
<awilkins> One for each problem?
<daftykins> <3 XPS 13 9350
<awilkins> The duplicity package clearly is missing a dep
<knightwise> Love this machine :)
<awilkins> I had a play with the XPS13, didn't like the keyboard
<popey> i have the duplicity author here too, who i can poke
<popey> so any detail you have would be super
<awilkins> Very happy with a T460s right now
<knightwise> And check out my lid cover https://www.dropbox.com/s/4rikj0o1lbe9i9f/20160426_090115.jpg?dl=0
<popey> I <3 my T450
<popey> Hot-swap dual battery ftw :)
<knightwise> popey: that IS cool
<awilkins> Ah, the battery isn't hotswappable on this
<awilkins> But I think it has about a 9 hour life
<knightwise> and if you put the laptop on its side it can act as a stand-in for a stonehenge block
<Myrtti> I can't remember which XPS13 I've got
<awilkins> Twin batteries, one LiPo one Li-IOn
<Myrtti> can't easily check from the label either because I've got a case on
<popey> 9 hours is acceptable
<daftykins> knightwise: haha, where'd you get that from?
<knightwise> http://www.bambooti.be/
<daftykins> Myrtti: dmidecode, but i think you got a 9343
<knightwise> they make curtom lids
<daftykins> it'll be a 9343 if it's broadwell, 5000 series from "grep -i model /proc/cpuinfo"
<Myrtti> ahha Product Name: XPS13 9333
<daftykins> ooh even earlier
<Myrtti> yeah we got this from eBay refurbisher 18 months ago or so
<daftykins> *nod* after you linked i checked them out quite often :D
<Myrtti> (with Dell onsite warranty and all)
<daftykins> eventually i found mine on the Dell outlet though \o/
<Myrtti> it was funny when the onsite came to repair the 'broken' speaker
<Myrtti> and it turns out it wasn't broken, it wasn't hooked in
 * awilkins planning to get a T420 for the offspring as a refurb from eBay
<Myrtti> anyway, I should go get dressed, I came downstairs to prep a bacon sarnie for the hubby and just stayed to watch some youtubes
<popey> i saw two X220's in CEX at the weekend
<popey> one was 170 quid, one was 160
<daftykins> hehe apparently CEX are selling some stolen copies of an unreleased Playstation 4 title
<daftykins> i got an X240 for a client 2 years ago (hence the 4) but now we replaced his backup machine with an XPS13 9350 he seems keen to use the Dell as his daily, although it doesn't have built in mobile broadband so that kinda kills it
<popey> yeah, i only recently figured out the middle digit was the year
<Myrtti> aw crap, that reminds me of other things I haven't done today. BRB.
<daftykins> popey: me too!
<JamesTait> Good morning all!  Happy Thank You Thursday! ð â¤
<daftykins> i was all "hey waiddaminute the 2015 was x250 and we bought the x240 in 2014..."
<popey> exactly
<popey> "when did I buy the x220... and the new one is x260... waaaaaaitaminute!"
<SuperMatt> I don't understand why they don't call it the x2015
<SuperMatt> makes it a hell of a lot easier for people to understand what they're buying
<popey> because that gives it away a bit too much
<popey> "Oh, that's old"
<popey> after 6 months
<awilkins> Makes it harder to sell older models?
<awilkins> Lenovo have a bargain area where they sell older models
<daftykins> yeah i think a direct marker of time like that would send alarm bells to most
<awilkins> Which is annoying
<awilkins> Because they have different specs to the new ones :-Z
<awilkins> Like last years X1 Carbon is different. Annoying.
<zmoylan-pi> they have to convince people to buy older models of thinkpad?? :-)
<awilkins> Well, older models that THEY have in stock
<awilkins> Because they're newer-ish models
 * popey hugs his 10 year old T43
<popey> and his slightly less old X61
<popey> and his slightly newer X200
<popey> *X220
<davmor2> JamesTait: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1TO48Cnl66w
<popey> and the T450
<popey> Surprised how well the T43 runs Ubuntu MATE
<knightwise> popey: you put an SSD in that i presume
<daftykins> i've got a couple of the premium older Sony ultraportables retired from a clients now, first was a core 2 duo ultra low voltage with 2GB RAM - second is the same with 4GB RAM and a samsung SSD - they both run xubuntu quite well
<popey> knightwise: in the T43, not yet
<popey> It's PATA so I don't have any compatible SSDs lying around
<popey> I only ever had one Sony laptop. The little portable thing the size of a Toshiba Libretto
<popey> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_Vaio_C1_series#/media/File:Sony_vaio-_Pcg-c1x_2013-08-16_23-31.jpg
<popey> \o/ nipple
<JamesTait> davmor2, my wedding song!
<popey> blimey, for an old laptop they still command decent money on fleabay
<zmoylan-pi> my one sony laptop was killed by dublin bus in freak accident. i thought having 2" of protection underneath, 1" on sides and .5" on top was enough protection for public transport
<daftykins> bit of violent braking saw it take off?
<zmoylan-pi> braking and swerving when i was at top of stairs threw me down the stairs. caught myself luckily but pitched forward caught top corner of laptop a whack which hairline fractured the motherboard. would never accept a hard drive after that
<zmoylan-pi> booted off puppy linux fine for a year after that mind till it booted no more
<daftykins> :D
<zmoylan-pi> so now i want netbook sized of smaller that i can put more protection around
<zmoylan-pi> s/of/or
<zmoylan-pi> pity the thinkpad butterfly keyboard never lasted
<zmoylan-pi> proper keyboard in small package http://i.imgur.com/ohB4y2j.gif
<daftykins> aww an extra specially vigorous enter key stab and it'd pancake off out the bus window though :)
<zmoylan-pi> no no you use vim and ctrl m all the way... :-)
<daftykins> *gasp*
<knightwise> ugly but functional
<popey> hehe, now co-workers around me (with their W520's) are eyeing up my T450 and looking at upgrade options
<daftykins> XD
<popey> So many thinkpads and Dell XPS's in one room
<daftykins> the client that wants to make use of mobile broadband with the XPS13, i'm thinking the ugly USB dongle from the likes of ZTE is the best bet :/
<popey> I'd get a mifi
<popey> means you can put it where you get the best reception
<popey> not tethered to the usb port
<DJones> Does anybody here use corebird, if so have you found a way to pin the app to the unity bar so you can click on it to start it? Every time I try, it pins my twitter nick, but when clicked, the app never opens a window
<daftykins> popey: mmm he's getting on a bit now though so another battery to charge is a no go really
<daftykins> mostly his trips are down to his apartment in Spain where it's not really moving so much as setting up in one spot
<popey> I wasn't thinking him moving, but moving the device so it gets the best 3g/4g signal
<popey> I used to work in an office where I used a usb dongle and only had one sweet spot where it worked well, had to blue-tak the usb dongle to the wall and run a long usb cable  ð
<popey> maybe not an issue for him :)
<daftykins> XD
<popey> DJones: what's corebird?
<daftykins> nah it could be, his apartment is a lower floor in a block - might require a trial run
<zmoylan-pi> or a hat with the dongle glued on with a usb leading to the laptop... :-D
<DJones> popey: twitter client
<DJones> One of the few for Ubuntu since polly & hottot stopped being supported
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<daftykins> \o
<daftykins> sure wish these docks for the XPS13 didn't cost an arm and two legs - http://accessories.euro.dell.com/sna/productdetail.aspx?c=uk&l=en&s=dhs&cs=ukdhs1&sku=452-BCDJ
<daftykins> that's the cheaper one :|
<daftykins> knightwise: have you been tempted? :)
<knightwise> daftykins: tempted to ... ?
<daftykins> knightwise: immediate lines above, the linked WD15 Dell dock and the more expensive Thunderbolt 3 based TB15
<daftykins> for the dream scenario of a single cable for external displays, gigabit LAN, audio and so on :D
<daftykins> oh and charging
<knightwise> VERY nice :)
<knightwise> love the fact that its also a charger
<daftykins> i just hope the prices come down
<knightwise> i have 3 cables right now, power usb and displayport
<knightwise> Man , no wonder twitter stock is going down. Aside from website newsfeeds and media outlets , my timeline is dead
<popey> you dont follow enough people :)
<popey> also, lists ftw
<knightwise> probably
<zmoylan-pi> well they broke the timeline by shoving the while you were away and non chronological silliness in
<popey> awilkins: any progress with deja-dup?
<awilkins> It stopped complaining
<popey> I use tweetdeck so don't have that issue
<popey> ok
<awilkins> I guess it was just a periodic check failing or something
 * awilkins checks backup schedule
<awilkins> Scheduled for today
<daftykins> oh hello Firefox 46!
<awilkins> Ah, running nowe
<awilkins> Must have prodded the sleeping beast
<awilkins> My other pet peeve with deja-dup is the verification step
<awilkins> When it needs an encryption password it prompts for it at the END
<daftykins> :S
<awilkins> Which often means that you miss noticing it and your connection to your NAS times out
<awilkins> And then the verification check fails
<knightwise> I hardly have any local data that isnt synced to my NAS or the cloud on any of my machines
<awilkins> Firefox 46 has system themed menus and stuff now
<Myrtti> ah, so it does
<awilkins> I may give it another chance to be my main browser
<awilkins> It kept browning out
<awilkins> So I'm on Chromium on my desktop nopw
<daftykins> clean profile?
<awilkins> On firefox?
<awilkins> It was clean as of 15.10
<daftykins> never hurts to nuke and try again
<awilkins> As clean as you can get when you sync
<knightwise> is the new calendar app in 16.04 worth it ?
<awilkins> There's a new calendar app
<awilkins> ?
 * awilkins just uses Lightning
<knightwise> does it sync with google  ?
<awilkins> Huh, 16.04 has stopped syncing with Google calendar
<davmor2> knightwise: it does
<awilkins> Must have to feed it my account again
<knightwise> hmm.. wonder if I can install it on 1404
<davmor2> knightwise: it's a bit meh to be honest, It's good that is it so simple but it might be too basic for some users, just depends on your needs I guess
 * brobostigon is struggling with writing the new story for the next D&D game with his friends.
<zmoylan-pi> have it as a quest to install os/2 :-)
<brobostigon> lolz.
<zmoylan-pi> navigating the phone tree of ibm support...
<awilkins> YOU NEED THE HOLY DISKS
<brobostigon> lolz v0.2
<awilkins> YOU HAVE FOUND DISK 4 of 15
<zmoylan-pi> and the sacred scrolls of faq
<awilkins> YOUR QUEST CONTINUES
<brobostigon> :)
<awilkins> DISK 7 IS...... !!! CORRUPT !!!
<awilkins> <druids casts protection against corruption>
<zmoylan-pi> i knew the adventure was over when ibm started phoning me for os/2 support...
<zmoylan-pi> but dnd is great fun... you learn valuable lessons... https://twitter.com/angryearthling/status/724330546709561345/photo/1
<brobostigon> :)
<zmoylan-pi> we were all in exactly the wrong position for that attack
<zmoylan-pi> tanks/fighters at the back, range/magic users at the front
<daftykins> zmoylan-pi: catnip one is great :D
<zmoylan-pi> you can't go wrong on the internet with cat memes...
<daftykins> unless perhaps it's a dog owners forum
<zmoylan-pi> nah a lot of dog owners don't mind a good cat meme
<foobarry> just noticed something about Arial font
<foobarry> write the word Tokyo
<foobarry> it looks really bad
<popey> ooh, i dont have arial installed
 * popey installs
 * zmoylan-pi just realises i don't have arial installed as i have been using times new roman and monospaced font for everything...
<foobarry> need to check calibri instead if i can find it
<foobarry> there's no digital signature on fonts is there? you don't know if you are getting a ripoff or not
<popey> there is on the debian package
<foobarry> strangely libreoffice has given me marginally bigger bullet points than another section of the doc even though everything seems to be the same (bullet size, font, spacing, text body, etc)
<DJones> foobarry: Speaking of poor choices for a font, saw this the other day on twitter https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BZnofBvIYAAfzOK.jpg
<foobarry> oof
<foobarry> probably quite a popular card
<zmoylan-pi> i have an aunt i'd like to give that card too...
<foobarry> hmm
<foobarry> intranet looks bad in calibri
<foobarry> et is eww. think i'll try arial again
<awilkins> popey, The debian package just downloads the font self-extractors from MS and unpacks them : does it check the signatures of the contents?
<popey> awilkins: dunno
<knightwise> Hmm, went from Gnome 3 to mate on 14.04 and I gotta say .. man its fast
<foobarry> why does my browser never remember my google 2fa settings?
<zmoylan-pi> so google always has your phone number? :-)
<diddledan_> morning
<diddledan_> open.xamarin.com <-- the mobile sdk is finally opensource
<diddledan_> mmm, sauce
 * diddledan_ wanders-off to find some bbqsauce
<MacroMan_> mysql: [ERROR] unknown variable 'sql-mode=ONLY_FULL_GROUP_BY,STRICT_TRANS_TABLES,ERROR_FOR_DIVISION_BY_ZERO,NO_AUTO_CREATE_USER,NO_ENGINE_SUBSTITUTION'
<Myrtti> "ok"
<diddledan_> I was thinking about that exact error too
<diddledan_> I mean what are the chances that a random idiot will utter the exact random gibberish that I was thinking out which has zero relationship to anything real
<diddledan_> about*
<m0nkey_> I'm thinking about pizza
<diddledan_> good plan
<diddledan_> now I'm thinking about pizza
 * diddledan_ drools
<Myrtti> pizza â¥
<Myrtti> best thing about the barbecue season is the pizzas
<Myrtti> hm, maybe pizzabases could be something for me to make and freeze next
<m0nkey_> Heh, the old BBQ pizza oven, huh?
<m0nkey_> I've just realised I've not had my car insurance certificate in the car since August. Good job I haven't been stopped :)
<foobarry> in the car?
<foobarry> i don't even know where mine is
<m0nkey_> It's a weird Quebec thing
<foobarry> oh
<foobarry> phew
<m0nkey_> Both registration and proof of insurance must be with the car at all times.
<m0nkey_> In the UK, Rozzers typically look up the reg number.
<gpd> upgraded to my server to 16.04 from 15.10 last night - all seemed to be ok after some glitches in the install - but today everything seemes to have fallen over (courier-authdaemon, mysql, apache2) mysteriously during the day. nothing obvious in the logs. very weird.
<m0nkey_> Pizza ready!
<foobarry> gpd: "fallen over" how?
<foobarry> isn't 16.04 systemd now?
<awilkins_> I like this PC that looks like the Tet from Oblivion : https://twitter.com/Alienware/status/725745941764956162
<knightwise> anyone know any good themes for mate ?  i"m on 14.04 and would like to spice it up a little
#ubuntu-uk 2016-04-29
<diddledan_> finally finishing the first season of lucifer. just starting episode 7
<zmoylan-pi> 2-6 weren't interesting?
<zmoylan-pi> nm, thought you meant starting season 7, sleep wonky at the mo...
<diddledan_> nono, I've watched those already tonight :-p
 * zmoylan-pi watched north by northwest, an old hitchcock classic
<diddledan_> aah that's awesome
<diddledan_> it's difficult to find the original black and white though
<mappps> hi
<zmoylan-1i> and what was mappps watching tonight?
<MooDoo> morning all
<brmbrmcar> Morning
<m0nkey_> Morning
<m0nkey_> Yeah, I'm still awake. Don't ask.
<m0nkey_> And i'm going to bed
<diddledan_> I'm awake later :-p
<popey> Morning
<knightwise> morning popey
<AuroraAvenue> Woke up early, today - kicked the duvet off - Let's Go !
<davmor2> Morning all you funky Friday people
<popey> davmor2: hey hey hey!
<foobarry> my card got skimmed :|
<foobarry> somebody tried to get money out in nepal
<foobarry> i'm v careful too :-\
<MooDoo> bugger :(
<MooDoo> howdy davmor2
<foobarry> beginning to suspect the touchpay type transactions are not secure
<davmor2> foobarry: they are but they are not infallible
<Myrtti> more likely to be a petrol station than contactless that skimmed you
<Myrtti> or a cash hole
<Myrtti> I've got an rfid protected purse, 10/10 would recommend
<popey> When I landed here in prague, I was on the airport wifi trying to use uber, got a cab but the app didn't like paypal here in CZH so had to add my visa card to it. Tapped it all in and instantly got a text from my bank telling me my card was used in an unusual situation :)
<davmor2> popey: you didn't inform your bank you were travelling at a guess
<popey> yeah, forgot
<JamesTait> Good morning all!  Happy Friday, and happy Hairball Awareness Day! ð ð
<knightwise> BWUEEUUUURRCHHHHHH COUGHCOUGH
 * knightwise throws up hairball
<knightwise> there :)
<foobarry> only used 1 atm, my usual one i know any changes to
<foobarry> most payments i use credit card instead
<foobarry> except 2 paywave payments in pub and poundland
<foobarry> but ATM use would suggest they have my pin
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<knightwise> hey brobostigon
<brobostigon> hi knightwise
<knightwise> Am i correct in assuming that Nylas routes your mail through an external cloud server before displaying it in the client ?
<wardster> hi folks
<foobarry> yes knightwise
<davmor2> JamesTait: this is about as close as I can get to hair ball https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TP8NoCcf1LQ  :D
<knightwise> fa
<davmor2> a long long way to run?
<knightwise> LOL
<knightwise> sorry , long window
<knightwise> hilarious response though
<MooDoo> well we might as well carry it on
<MooDoo> sew a needle pulling thread?
<mapito> privet
<davmor2> la a note to follow sew?
<zmoylan-pi> so a weird conversation looms?
<davmor2> mapito: get a few of those together and you'll have a shrubbbbbbery which will make the Nights Of Ni very happy
<mapito> i dont understad:P
<mapito> privet means hi
<knightwise> NI!
<zmoylan-pi> none shall pass!
<knightwise> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1ug9-rhSs4
<knightwise> How do you make jam :) Eddy knows
<davmor2> mapito: privet is a type of hedge in English
<davmor2> knightwise: jeff and jam izzards favourite words :)
<knightwise> davmor2: i love that guy
<zmoylan-pi> the deathstar canteen conversation... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sv5iEK-IEzw
<knightwise> CAKE .....
<knightwise> Wait , thats the one about ... The Tray  !
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: no it's https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6C_HjWr3Nk
<zmoylan-pi> he does raise a good point that printing is still a disaster on computers
<knightwise> Indeed
 * zmoylan-pi laments the good old days of spectrum thermal printer were your biggest problem was the flippin thing catching fire... at least you knew what went wrong...
<zmoylan-pi> no error 13 silliness
<knightwise> hmm.. reading some classic doctor who on the kindle :)
<zmoylan-pi> it's like a tardis for books... :-)
<knightwise> Bigger on the inside :)
<knightwise> Reading 'the turing test'
<knightwise> not a bad book .. love the math in all of it
<knightwise> the whole 'Alan has a a crush on the Doctor thing' does get a bit old
<zmoylan-pi> then stay away from fan fic trek fiction written by furries who cast kirk as an ocelot... :-P
<knightwise> Oh god yez !
<knightwise> http://lowrez.tk/Random_Wallpaper_Using_Feh.txt.html
<knightwise> hmm.. Random reddit wallpaper every x
<zmoylan-pi> can't imagine how that can go wrong...
<knightwise> zmoylan-pi: boobz
 * zmoylan-pi hands knightwise forks so he can poke his own eyes out
<knightwise> thank you
<knightwise> When you think of it .. Calibre makes the purchase of my Kindle totally worth it
<zmoylan-pi> i've had tablets, e-ink ereaders from 3-4 companies and assorted pdas. currently my most used ereader is a dumbphone with a java app (albite) that handles epub/txt files
<zmoylan-pi> don't have to think about battery. it just keeps going
<knightwise>  zmoylan-pi that is a pro
<knightwise> I have the same thing with the kindle
<knightwise> battery just goes on
<zmoylan-pi> and i have a nice little 5" kobo but i just don't use it
<awilkins> Kindle 4th gen. Lovely thing.
<awilkins> Lighter than a 7" tablet, battery keeps going and going
<awilkins> Feeling like Cpt. Picard perusing reports at his desk? Priceless.
<awilkins> Cobblers to this new "premium" Kindle
<awilkins> Lopsided casing. Doesn't add anything other than (I presume) stronger DRM and whiter background (backlight?)
<awilkins> Theory : it's just a sonar ping to see who the rich idiots are so they can market diamond-encrusted tubs of keyboard cleaner more aggressively to them
<knightwise> awilkins: my wife calls our office "the ready room" because I have all these tablets in front of me
<knightwise> phone, ipad, kindle , surface pro
<awilkins> The other thing Amazon will sell to rich idiots : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rg3Mr6e1KMo&t=147  << $100,000 water
<knightwise> Oh sweet mother of god
<knightwise> although , the kindle aint that bad
<awilkins> The lack of input devices other than voice and PADD in the Trek universe does bother me
<awilkins> LCARS looks terribly inefficient
<awilkins> They must have oratory classes at the Academy so people can complete their logs without umming and erring all the time
<awilkins> Or they invented an algorithm that turns all your umming and erring into a lovely well orated log
<knightwise> LCARS is a mess :p
<knightwise> but voice dictation does work surprisingly well on the ipad and the mac
<awilkins> I've noticed it has improved considerably on Android as well
<awilkins> Every other thing I used to say to "Ok Google" was swearing about how it misinterpreted the previous thing.
<awilkins> The maps app is awesome now
<awilkins> Puts fixed-feature satnav to shame
<knightwise> on google ?
<knightwise> yes !
<knightwise> and Waze is even better
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<zmoylan-pi> i always assumed lcars was a touch interface that allowed the person to tap in some variant of code to get text into the system as they often typed blind on it.  maybe a 26th version of morse
<zmoylan-pi> *26th century version
<Seeker`> I just discoverd levelclear in irssi <3
<davmor2> Seeker`: easily pleased
<Seeker`> yes, very
<Seeker`> there are a few channels that I don't want to completely remove joins/parts/quits from, but I don't always want to see them. So I made a /cleanup command that just removes those things from the scrollback
<diddledan_> I'm sorry but I feel the time has come to ask the all important question: "who wears short shorts?"
<zmoylan-pi> i do have an emergency pair of shorts for irish heatwaves (above 30c) but not short shorts
<diddledan_> zmoylan-pi, you mean the 10 minutes of summer?
<zmoylan-pi> sometimes 11 minutes!!
<zmoylan-pi> global warming
<davmor2> diddledan_: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UcvjXAtzaMU
<diddledan_> davmor2, well done! :-)
<diddledan_> https://twitter.com/ComicBookGrrl/status/725347034279075840
<zmoylan-pi> you can tell the difference between web developer and sysadmin by the heavy boots the sysadmin wears... :-)
<diddledan_> it's ubuntu podcast day!
<diddledan_> \o/
 * diddledan_ listens
<diddledan_> hmm, a reverse apple
<diddledan_> eek: https://twitter.com/ComicBookGrrl/status/726088708622061568
<diddledan_> interesting that the small print on ubuntubsd.org says they're using freebsd's name by permission but no mention of canonical's consent to use the ubuntu trademark
<diddledan_> I wonder if anyone has taken the plunge and started using ZFS on 16.04 yet?
<zmoylan-pi> the bsd people hold a grudge longer? :-)
<diddledan_> new ricky gervais movie just landed in netflix - skipped the cinema entirely
<diddledan_> special correspondants
<zmoylan-pi> so not even a straight to dvd movie...
<diddledan_> nope, apparently gervais chose netflix to retain creative control
<diddledan_> probably got more money too
#ubuntu-uk 2016-04-30
<mapps> i
<AuroraAvenue> morning.
<daftykins> https://i.imgflip.com/139s94.jpg
<AuroraAvenue> new keyboard .. right-oh.
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<penguin42> hmm, according to the metoffice it might just have finished pouring down
<zmoylan-pi> weather is taking a breather till you've done your shopping and are waiting in a queue for a bus before going in for a second run
<penguin42> yeh, that's the way it works
<zmoylan-pi> it is in ireland :-)
<penguin42> and then when you're finished with it you send it here
<zmoylan-pi> well it has so much more to give... we import million of american tourists per year to soak up the rain but it's never enough
<penguin42> well it's only fair since most of it is rain they sent you
<zmoylan-pi> and we make a few bob on the deal to cover costs
<Davmor2_> Moo
<Davmor2_> Chatter is quite nice
<zmoylan-pi> i go soon to give away an unused piece of hardware hoping to find it a good home...
<penguin42> anything fun?
<zmoylan-pi> a 5" kobo mini
<penguin42> ok, nothing too special
<zmoylan-pi> i just don't use it. nice bit of hardware i got cheap a few years back.  too good to dump.
<penguin42> nod
<zmoylan-pi> i suspect next will be a 7" tablet i use a lot less now
<Davmor2_> popey: You back home now?
<popey> davmor2: yup
<directhex> 100% in not a hero :)
<bechampion> Any meetups going on this weekend in London?
<bechampion> not really i was checking..
<Myrtti> and this, children, is why you don't play with iptables.
<penguin42> ?
<brmbrmcar> o_O
<Myrtti> I think I disconnected, and then reconnected?
<Myrtti> <-- iptables nuub
<directhex> i  avoid touching firewall config if i can get away with it
<penguin42> there's lots of things that do most of the work for you these days
<Myrtti> I was trying to do port knocking :-|
<penguin42> ah
<popey> evening
<bechampion> is that still in use
<bechampion> port knocking?
#ubuntu-uk 2016-05-01
<markie-> wake up everybody, it's time to hack
<zmoylan-pi> it's time to sleep after listening to dawn chorus from all across europe from midnight to 6am
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<sebsebseb> hi
<popey> hi
<popey> I tried to order a bq M10 last night and their website refused to let me, unless I move to Ireland
<sebsebseb> popey: he h realy?
<popey> yeah, if you choose ireland it offers a shipping option, any other country it doesnt
<sebsebseb> popey: I have the white one, I'll get the black at a later date to
<sebsebseb> I think
<sebsebseb> and a golden miezu  phone I guess hmm
<sebsebseb> no rush for those two things though
 * sebsebseb mett a girl from the Internet first time yesterday, so is thinking about that
<sebsebseb> popey: Canonical aren't nice enough to give you m10's for free :d
<SuperEngineer> prediction:- on Tuesay morning popey asks Canonical to get themselves an office in Ireland
<sebsebseb> SuperEngineer:   h eh yeah and then they can maybe even employee czajkowski whilst at it too :d
<SuperEngineer> ;_)
<SuperEngineer> [she could be in charge of "forwarding phones" division
<sebsebseb>   
<sebsebseb> popey: I think it's kind of funny or interesting how like loads of the FAN BOYS from omgubuntu and such have gone for the black tablet, but the white one is probably fine enough for most people
<zmoylan-pi> black hardware looks cooler than white hardware (except of course apple). i used to think this too till i dropped my black maglite torch in a sub basement network cabinet with the light off...
<penguin42> zmoylan-pi: Now all you need to find it is a torch
<zmoylan-pi> if i hadn't of had my psion 5 in a holster i'd still be there looking for the light switch
<zmoylan-pi> which some genius had put behind the door, so you had to walk into a dark room, then into network room, close the door to get to the light switch
<zmoylan-pi> bonus points loads of heating pipes ran through the room so reaching out was a way for asking for random contact with white hot pipes
<bittin-_> Hello anyone can help me find out what email account i got on my Ubuntu One and Launchpad account ?
<penguin42> bittin-_: Are you logged into it?
<bittin-_> penguin42: nope i don't remember my password :(
<penguin42> bittin-_: Hmm, but you remember your launchpad username?
<bittin-_> yeah its bittin
<bittin-_> https://launchpad.net/~bittin
<penguin42> bittin-_: Hmm the problem is that you've not got a public address on it
<bittin-_> penguin42: arggh :(
<penguin42> bittin-_: I can try sending you a mail via launchopad and you can see if you get it
<bittin-_> sure check where it sends to
<bittin-_> too*
<penguin42> ah I wont know that
<bittin-_> not sure i own the email anymore as i don't remember what email it is
<penguin42> bittin-_: Well I just sent a mail to you via lp - so if you get it on one of your emails you do :-)
<bittin-_> thanks hope its not on some old shell account or something then
<penguin42> bittin-_: If you ask in #launchpad they might be able to help; but they probably wouldn't want to provide the info on the email address without your permission :-)
<bittin-_> penguin42: i understand
<penguin42> bittin-_: Why don't you just create a new one - you don't seem to have much tied to it
<bittin-_> penguin42: i like to have my real online nick
<penguin42> nod
 * penguin42 has had at least 3 or 4 lp accounts across a couple of jobs, and my own use
<bittin> will try to see if someone answers in #launchpad during work hours
#ubuntu-uk 2017-04-24
<zmoylan-pi> only 2 usb ports?! what is this 1999? :-P
<daftykins> 2 more on the side ;)
<daftykins> but if you're using a lot of USB gear, you're doing it wrong!
<zmoylan-pi> only 4 usb ports?! what is this 2004? :-P
<daftykins> still use my webcam by being plugged into the side of the left one actually, seems alright
<zmoylan-pi> it's an anti theft strategy when the pc is scattered in 20 external devices each with their own cable and power supply :-D
<daftykins> i only got my first displayport graphics card back 1 year ago, yet my monitors still had it! albeit v1.1 - that was quite handy
<daftykins> although they're trying to get too clever, if i turn one screen off it'll move my programs to the one that remains - but i used to like just leaving them where they were :P
<zmoylan-pi> i _hate_ when hardware tries to be /clever/ 9 times out of 10 it does the wrong thing...
<daftykins> *nod* that and HDMI-CEC are definitely those type
<daftykins> better just *off* :>
<knightwise> mornin g
<knightwise>  how izz you all doing today
<MooDoo> morning all
<SuperMatt> woo, moved office!
<MooDoo> SuperMatt: did it all go smoothly?
<SuperMatt> yeah, I have all my stuff, nothing went missing, thankfully
<MooDoo> nice
<davmor2> Morning all
<MooDoo> morning davmor2
<davmor2> ay up me owld mukka ow am ya?
<MooDoo> davmor2: hayfever, cold, urgh......how are you?
<foobarry> hayfever kicked off today
<davmor2> Tree pollen gets us before the rest and rapeseed pollen it lethal and there is none of that about right.....in the rural Shropshire Countryside :D  Aldi's hayfever tablets are awesome by the way
<MooDoo> I've already got some, it's just the cold that's making me feel crappy.
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<MooDoo> morning brobostigon
<JamesTait> Good morning all! Happy Monday, and happy Firefly Day! ð
<brobostigon> mornin MooDoo
<davmor2> JamesTait: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPwkDF5AxQM can only be
<JamesTait> Yup.
<davmor2> JamesTait: first thing I downloaded on Google play video :D
<diplo> Morning all
<davmor2> Morning diplo
<davmor2> JamesTait: Just found the episode of Castle where Richard dresses as Mal :D Class act that one :)
<zmoylan-pi> space cowboy \o/
<SuperMatt> Quite near the beginning, if I recal
<SuperMatt> Halloween episode
<davmor2> yeap
<zmoylan-pi> castle had quite a few firefly references iirc
<knightwise> Hey everone
<knightwise> how are you guys doing today
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: there are a bunch of references like the spa is serenity, there is talk of yeah, you'd better run and so on
<knightwise> hmm.. Bash shell under windows does have some drawbacks. the screen refresh in irssi sucks hairy camel testicles
<Ybslik> Hi I am very new at all this. I have loaded Ubuntu 16.4 onto a new Pc. I want to use this New Pc as a Tor Node, and I need help in setting it up
<brobostigon> Ybslik: https://www.torproject.org/docs/tor-relay-debian thats a good place to start, :)
<Ybslik> Hi Yes I have read the article but I find that they are talkin as if I know what they mean, maybe to paoint, but when it says add lines to the 'torrc' file  - where is the 'torrc' file and how do i open it.  I am not a dummy but this has stumped me, I was only able to get  this IRC loaded because it led me through the process with what to type in. I hope you know wher I am at.
<brobostigon> i would suggest torrc is probably either in your home directory or /etc ? i would also suggest using a text editor to edit said config file. :)
<Ybslik> Yes thankyou, now please be patient, I am used to being in windows and just click on items to open them,  I have found an icon with a filing cabinet on it opening that shows me i'm in Home no folder is listed as torrc - and where do I find /etc?
<Lupus> Hello!
<davmor2> Lupus: hello
<Lupus> Hi!
<Lupus> Can you help me with something?
<davmor2> just ask if someone can help they will
<Lupus> I want to install libssh-0.1 on my Ubuntu Server 17.04 (64bit), but I encounter an error at make.
<Lupus> I'm running it in VirtualBox.
<foobarry> why are you compiling it Lupus ?
<Lupus> I have to compile an executable file written in C that requires libssh-0.1. I tried libssh-0.11 but I have an error at compilation.
<Lupus> I need libssh-0.1.
<foobarry> is it really old?
<Lupus> Yes.
<Lupus> https://pastebin.com/GLwfm70T
<Lupus> This is my error.
<Lupus> At the end of the make...
<foobarry> do you know what version of ubuntu it did work with?
<Lupus> I'm not sure.
<Lupus> I'll try to install Ubuntu Server 12.04, but it will be removed today!
<Lupus> Tomorrow*
<foobarry> running such an old thing has major security issues
<Lupus> It's okay.
<Lupus> I'm running the Ubuntu Server in VirtualBox.
<foobarry> try to find where it was available as a package
<foobarry> maybe 2010
<Lupus> I don't know...
<Lupus> https://www.libssh.org/files/0.1/libssh-0.1.tgz
<foobarry> recompile with -fPIC
<foobarry> did you try that?
<Lupus> I tried.
<Lupus> But nothing..
<foobarry> --enable-shared
<foobarry> tried that?
<Lupus> Yes.
<foobarry> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/13812185/how-to-recompile-with-fpic
<Lupus> ./configure --enable-shared.
<Lupus> Yes.
<Lupus> I tried and gcc -o libssh.so -shared client.o packet.o dh.o crypt.o connect.o error.o buffer.o string.o kex.o channels.o options.o keys.o auth.o base64.o keyfiles.o misc.o gzip.o wrapper.o sftp.o -lnsl -lresolv -lz -lcrypto
<Lupus> I can give you the login for my Ubuntu Server.
<Lupus> If you can solve it.
<foobarry> i've got to put the kids to bed :|
<Lupus> It's ok.
<foobarry> what is the app you are trying to cmpile? something properietary?
<foobarry> someone else might offer later this evening
<Lupus> A friend gave me a source code because he can't compile it.
<Lupus> It is for ssh authentication or something like that.
<foobarry> :o
<Lupus> What?
<foobarry> that will be horiifically insecure
<foobarry> if it relies on such ancient libs
<Lupus> It's okay.
<Lupus> I want to help him.
<Lupus> It's okay bro.
<Lupus> But I need libssh-0.1.
<Lupus> Are you here?
#ubuntu-uk 2017-04-25
<diddledan> interesting: https://www.thurrott.com/windows/109962/windows-bloated-thanks-adobes-extensible-metadata-platform
<daftykins> wowzer
<daftykins> diddledan: i tried to swap SSD and reinstall macOS sierra on an old mid 2010 iMac today
<diddledan> how did it go?
<daftykins> sucker just fails at boot with the kinda no entry icon :/
<diddledan> aww
<diddledan> hold down R on power-up
<daftykins> pirate mode ;)
<diddledan> yarr
<daftykins> was that one that boots off the recovery partition or something built into the SMC o0
<diddledan> that should load the internet-recovery
<daftykins> or EFI
<daftykins> ah well i was installing from a made up flash drive of Sierra
<daftykins> i actually had this when i fitted the first SSD back with 10.6, in the end i had to clone the spinning rust to it for it to work
<daftykins> might end up in a similar situation
<diddledan> :-(
<daftykins> it's weird because if i boot the flash drive again, the SSD looks fine from disk utility
<diddledan> odd
<daftykins> btw free Carl Sagan \o/ www.twitch.tv/cosmos
<daftykins> alrighty bed for me \o
<SuperMatt> I don't care what day JamesTait says it is, it would have been Ella Fitzgerald's 100th Birthday, and as such you must all take time to listen to her great works
<SuperMatt> I advise starting here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vXAtVbZbkI
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls. :)
<JamesTait> Good morning all! Happy Tuesday, and happy World Penguin Day! ð ð§
 * brobostigon puts his toy penguin on his desk, :)
<SuperMatt> It would also have been Ella Fitzgerald's 100th birthday
<davmor2> Morning all
<MooDoo> morning all
<davmor2> MooDoo: stop copying me already ;)
 * brobostigon points out, it isnt a cope, one is lower case the other has an upper case m.
<brobostigon> a copy*
<MooDoo> howdy y'all - better davmor2 ?
<davmor2> brobostigon: but it also ruins the joke ;)
<brobostigon> davmor2: :)
<davmor2> MooDoo: much better although you do sound like you have a southern/western twang now maybe "'ow do" would suffice :)
<MooDoo> davmor2: you got it yoof!
<NET||abuse> wow, just moved house recently and going through boxes, looking at my old dvd collection (already diminished from move 5 years ago when i sold 100 dvds/bluerays) now considering getting rid of the last of my physical  media, i dont own a dvd/blueray player anymore
<NET||abuse> what do you do with this stuff now? bin/recycle, "take me" note on the street, nobody's buying them really anymomre
<davmor2> Charity shops
<davmor2> might do some good that way
<NET||abuse> anyone in london interested :P https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipPaS-inxkA2Ch8hRR5aV3Yk77JHaTy0TVjHF56Fn2yLai051QZpx5f-hvH6_PYOLQ?key=cnYydWlBX1hvR2JsOGdLZ0lwUzhvOENaVkFzSnNn
<NET||abuse> but yeh, charity shop is likely the best idea.
<NET||abuse> I also have some games, wondering what's best to do there, HL2, Battlefield 2, medieval 2 total war and shogun 2 total war,,, wondering what way i can keep a licence for those
<NET||abuse> since none of my laptops have any optical drives at all
<NET||abuse> hah, just found monopoly "new edition" dvd
<NET||abuse> from 2002 i think
<NET||abuse> cd-rom acutally, not a dvd
<tripleclones> have you tried http://www.musicmagpie.co.uk or such like, might give a token ammount
<NET||abuse> could do that.
<foobarry> TIL there is a MATE compiz spin
<foobarry> with wobbly windows, expose mode etc
<SuperMatt> My life is now complete
<SuperMatt> Wobbly windows is the only way I can get happy these days
<foobarry> https://spins.fedoraproject.org/mate-compiz/
<foobarry> i miss those days
<foobarry> everything was buggy but we didn't care
<foobarry> i wish i could get the wobbly windows on elementary without compiz
<foobarry> gnome shell has an extension but it sucks
<foobarry> apparently
<diddledan> spinny desktop cubes were awesome
<diddledan> your video wasn't cool enough when demonstrating a distro unless it had spinny cube desktops and wobbly windows
<diddledan> even better if it had fancy closing window animations like fire
<zmoylan-pi> i'm sure if you scour the forums you'll find someone still using wobbly windows... these people need to be watched...
<diddledan> like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QokOwvPxrE
<foobarry> wobbly windows were useful for sanity while on long phone calls
<zmoylan-pi> then your sanity was a bit wobbly...
<foobarry> i forgot about the window dodge!
<foobarry> not as wobbly as teh video, but a little bounce is healthy
<foobarry> and that virtual windows switcher!! awesome!
<foobarry> move windows across virtual desktops in real time
<foobarry> amaze
 * TwistedLucidity uses wobbly windows
<SuperMatt> "Your honour, ladies and gentlemen of the jury, I put it to you that the accused uses Wobbly Windows, and is therefor proof of his mental state at the time of the murder" "GUILTY"
<TwistedLucidity> SuperMatt: If you knew where I worked, it would come as little suprise.
<diddledan> government is in purdah
<SuperMatt> And that's how Hans Reiser was convicted
<diddledan> started on the 22nd
<diddledan> gotta love electoral rules
<diddledan> if you're curious what purdah means: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/election-guidance-for-civil-servants
<TwistedLucidity> "You're 2015 election is disqualified...but you got elected in 2017...nothing to see hear, move along, move along"
<zmoylan-pi> the votings will continue till the government is happy
<SuperMatt> I really hope that something comes of these campaign expenses irregularities. It could very well sway the vote
<TwistedLucidity> Something may well come of it, but too late to affect anything. You think the general populace will remember it in 5 year's time?
<zmoylan-pi> speaking of wobbly windows... :-P https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/04/25/webroot_windows_wipeout/
<SuperMatt> If the findings of the investigation are announced before June 8th then it could greatly affect the election outcome
 * TwistedLucidity also uses desktop cube
<TwistedLucidity> SuperMatt: Expect the report to go through some stringent vetting prior to release. To ensure accuracy, you understand.
<TwistedLucidity> That takes time, but any job worth doing....
<diddledan> lol @ "goes banananas"
<diddledan> I love the register's crooked humour
<TwistedLucidity> Top-tip: Never use the word "banana" in a password. When you start typing, you're never quite sure when to stop.
<SuperMatt> but it's the CPS that'll be releasing it, not the government, so we can expect it to be released in a speedy way
<TwistedLucidity> At the top echelons, it's all the same
<SuperMatt> No, it's not
<SuperMatt> This is what makes our democracy work, they simply cannot overlap in these instances
<TwistedLucidity> Officially, no. But they're all members of the same private clubs. So unofficially.....
<TwistedLucidity> Cite: Harnett's meal deal
<diddledan> I would expect the CPS to be covered by purdah rules like government is
<SuperMatt> I think that's a little tin-foil-hat, I'm afraid
<SuperMatt> They can't change anything, but they can still convict if it's in the public's interest
<SuperMatt> and it would be, before a GE
<diddledan> they can't be seen to be party political though. it's difficult then to convict before an election
<TwistedLucidity> Let's see if it happens. I think they won't bring any charges, but I hope otherwise.
<Seeker`> popey: Did you know Google Effects and Draw apps will no longer work after April 25, 2017? Because I heard from somewhere that Google Effects and Draw apps will no longer work after April 25, 2017
<diddledan> did you copy and paste part of that utterance?
<Seeker`> no
<diddledan> "Google Effects and Draw apps will no longer work after April 25, 2017" was exactly repeated :-)
<Seeker`> There was a point to that :)
 * diddledan goes to the dunce corner
<diddledan> <-- fail
<diddledan> did I ruin it?
<TwistedLucidity> Is diddledan sitting in the corder? Because I read somewhere that diddledan is sitting in the corner.
<TwistedLucidity> s/corder/corner
<Seeker`> https://twitter.com/popey/status/842373734644219904 https://twitter.com/popey/status/842373734644219904 https://twitter.com/popey/status/842373734644219904
<Seeker`> err, those were meant to be 3 different links
<TwistedLucidity> LOL
 * Seeker` mashes ctrl+c harder https://twitter.com/popey/status/851706820519440384 https://twitter.com/popey/status/856856746245148672
<diddledan> TwistedLucidity: diddledan is sitting in the corner. diddledan was told he should be sitting in the corner. so diddledan went and started sitting in the corner.
<TwistedLucidity> But do you have pie, diddledan?
<diddledan> TwistedLucidity: plum pie. I pulled out my thumb and said what a good boy am I?
<diddledan> ref: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Jack_Horner
<Azelphur> hmm, seeing these occasionally on one of my servers, "kernel: [20789849.785809] ata9: hard resetting link"
<Azelphur> Wondering what (if any) action I should take?
<cydia> taking on chatroom
<diddledan> I guess the chatroom won that battle?
<zmoylan-pi> tis a great loss to the community...
<Azelphur> lol
<davmor2> Azelphur: https://askubuntu.com/questions/133946/are-these-sata-errors-dangerous
<Seeker`> at least it isn't an Arduino, Azelphur would have blown it up by now
<Azelphur> hehe
<Azelphur> davmor2: so basically: contact the host of the server
<davmor2> Azelphur: most likely yeap
<daftykins> yay Louis
<diddledan> another mac?
<daftykins> https://www.atecorp.com/products/tektronix/tds694c - one of these today, he's branching out!
<daftykins> oh no he wants to learn to use macOS
#ubuntu-uk 2017-04-26
<m0nkey_> daftykins: you watching louis?
<diddledan> https://twitter.com/richturn_ms/status/857036088099000320
<diddledan> ok, who killed the bot?!
<diddledan> oh it's back already
<davmor2> Morning all
<diplo> Morning all
<JamesTait> Good morning all! Happy Wednesday, and happy Hug An Australian Day! ð  ð¨
<zmoylan-pi> just make sure they're not harbouring any poisonous native wildlife first...
<davmor2> JamesTait: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9G2lqY3Nuk0
<JamesTait> davmor2, no Aussie connection though?
<JamesTait> Focus on the hugs.
<JamesTait> Not necessarily a bad policy.
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<brobostigon> woops,
<JamesTait> brobostigon, ð
<davmor2> JamesTait: only cause Kylie didn't sing it
<JamesTait> brobostigon, ð
<brobostigon> :)
<MooDoo> morning all
<brobostigon> morning
<MooDoo> how are you brobostigon ?
<brobostigon> not bad overall, just booked some theatre tickets for friday for me and my fiance, and you?
<MooDoo> yeah not doing too bad, roll on friday, nice 3 day weekend :)
<brobostigon> :)
<foobarry> i totally forgot we had a bank holiday coming until my wife told me yesetrday
<zmoylan-pi> which she will fill with diy tasks that have accumulated over winter... :-)
<TwistedLucidity> As I don't get Bank Holidays, I didn't know about it either. Have now booked it off.
<etheretic> rollback
<etheretic> anyone use kubuntu?
<foobarry> no but i got the t-shirt
<etheretic> congratulations.
<etheretic> foo> the system icons looks like a early-80's mac se (bw) desktop version
<etheretic> plus a dash cyan here and there.
<TwistedLucidity> etheretic: Me. But I don't have the default UI settings.
<etheretic> TwistedLucidity, what icon set do you use?
<TwistedLucidity> Crikey, err....
<TwistedLucidity> "Breeze", it seems.
<TwistedLucidity> "Breeze" look and feel
<TwistedLucidity> "Breeze Dark" desktop theme
<TwistedLucidity> "Breeze" cursor theme
<TwistedLucidity> So may well be more default than I thought
<etheretic> in kde-ubuntu..
<TwistedLucidity> Aye, Kubuntu 1604
<TwistedLucidity> I might move to KDE Neon in a bit
<etheretic> ..
<etheretic> same bugger-ugly b/w system panel icons..
<etheretic> TwistedLucidity, no change after swapping to breeze dark.
<daftykins> you might get more in #kubuntu or #ubuntu
<TwistedLucidity> Most of my notification icons are in B&W, the rest are in colour
<TwistedLucidity> Maybe I have some misconfiguration and it's working by fluke?
<TwistedLucidity> Whilst I like how KDE looks, I have always found it a nightmare to configure. There seems to be little logic to categories and little documentation that explains things clearly
<etheretic> u have a point there.
<etheretic> using a 10 yr old sony vaio which chokes on cinnamon (looks better).
<daftykins> xubuntu would be a better fit than KDE
<daftykins> well, xfce - to use the right term
<etheretic> as to system demands?
<daftykins> yeah
<etheretic> hm
<daftykins> what are the specs though? the old idea that Linux props up old machines is becoming a myth
<etheretic> at lerst k(ubuntu) plays movies without hiccups.
<daftykins> err that shouldn't be relevant to any given DE
<etheretic> 1gb ram, intel phoenix (?) cpu. especially firefox eat up swap space, paralyzes the machine.
<etheretic> daftykins, fact here. watching movies with smplayer in cinnamon = hiccups, plasma not.
<daftykins> Phoenix BIOS hehe, that's not a CPU.
<daftykins> etheretic: yeah that's a default packages and drivers situation, not a DE one.
<daftykins> simply a coincidence
<daftykins> 1GB RAM i wouldn't even try to use anymore
<etheretic> daftykins, ah right, used to use acorns so i was a bit off intel (brands) back then.. ;D
<daftykins> haha i had acorns during school, '96 through 2000
<etheretic> "640k is enough for everybody." - Bill G.
<etheretic> beautiful machines, the archimedeses and riscpcs.
<daftykins> i think that quote is stupid, because everyone makes claims that are invalidated sooner or later
<etheretic> lightspeed..
<foobarry> acorn user here too
<etheretic> font anti-aliasing was a great boon back then. more or less wysiwyg.
<etheretic> as opposed to windos/mac (then)
<daftykins> not sure what methods you mean they used, subpixel rendering is what's used with LCD tech nowadays
<etheretic> putting in greytones around the lines to make them look smooth. it worked/works.
<etheretic> s/lines/curves
<daftykins> i guess that's the old CRT approach, same deal with subpixel rendering except it makes use of the fractional pixels beside on LCDs
<etheretic> but i'm still up the creek re. b&w system panel icons..
<daftykins> is it really worth trying to resolve when KDE on such a spec machine is a masochistic choice?
<daftykins> i give away machines with 4GB RAM these days
<etheretic> not sure there is space for xfce
<diddledan> that quote is also silly because afaict nobody has proven he said ity
<etheretic> on the hd *100gb(
<daftykins> well don't put it on top, wipe it for xubuntu
<daftykins> or just try a live session :> oh wait yeah 1GB RAM would suck even for a live session...
<diddledan> AND, the 640KB wasn't a DOS limitation, it was a limitation on the 8086 CPU IIRC
<daftykins> diddledan: heh that's amusing
<diddledan> it wasn't until the 286 came along that PCs could address higher rams
<etheretic> the very idea!
<diddledan> I was looking into it a week or so ago because I fancied trying a homebrew ram card on my old PC1640
<diddledan> but that's an 8086 CPU so I believe it won't work
<etheretic> b. g. visited acorn in camby early 80s, were shown an econet network, asked @\"what's a network?" that's innovation that is.
<diddledan> heh, network wasn't a thing in microsoft's eyes until windows 3.11 and NT3.51 came along
<diddledan> but netware beat them to the punch in the early years
<diddledan> my college in 1999/2000 still used netware on XP clients!!
<etheretic> they've always been plagiarizing tech.
<daftykins> XP wasn't out 'til 2001
<diddledan> shush!
<daftykins> diddledan, noted time traveller ;D
<diddledan> :-p
<diddledan> I wonder what we were using then, it was definitely not 9x/me
<daftykins> heh i often imagine how neat it would be to travel back and demo some modern tech at a consumer electronics show
<daftykins> blow their minds!
<diddledan> and I'm sure it wasn't NT. must have been 2k?
<daftykins> could be!
<diddledan> daftykins: computershow!
<daftykins> wat
<diddledan> https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCDAs245Gu1JX0hy8MPgiKRQ
<diddledan> lovely parody of the computer chronicles
<diddledan> chronicals
<diddledan> htf do you speeel that?
<daftykins> chronicles
<diddledan> it looks odd
<daftykins> :D
<etheretic> went to acorn user shows in harrogate/london in 97/98. very enlightening. 8)
<diddledan> I had a school friend who avidly played on our tutor's BBC Micro in break time - his game of choice was chuckie egg
<etheretic> microserfs :D
<etheretic> diddledan, no elite?
<diddledan> nah
<diddledan> I used to play elite though, on my home PC
<daftykins> wouldn't last 5 minutes now of course, "oh your OS is in ROM and you can't get security fixes? oh dear"
<diddledan> I was bad
<diddledan> daftykins: surely they just ship you the patchrom
<etheretic> sec fixes are moot when you're rom'ed.
<diddledan> roms on top of roms :-p
<daftykins> er, no, no they're not :P
<diddledan> they should design them to be stackable so that you can load a patchrom onto an earlier rom
<etheretic> or use eproms
<diddledan> and every 6 months they ship you a full replacement rom so you can lower the stack to one layer again
<daftykins> but they're only capable of x flashes
<diddledan> I'd hate to get a ROM virus
<diddledan> imagine it - someone gives you a fake patchrom which loads malware instead
<etheretic> oh ah. let's go optic/holographic with fractal compression and never look back.
<diddledan> the compression is useless unless it's middle-out
<diddledan> these guys invented the idea: http://www.piedpiper.com/
<etheretic> btw, any of you live in the Solent area?
<diddledan> yup. amazingstoke.
<etheretic> that close to hempschmire?
<diddledan> right on the edge of the solent region, but still just about
<etheretic> i'm in oslo btw.
<daftykins> yesterday i had to fight .NET 4 onto a friends machine solely to run Brother's printer driver *installer*
<diddledan> oh, just down the road
<daftykins> they even wrapped up their files so you couldn't just extract and pinch the driver portion out
<daftykins> evil!
<diddledan> haha
<diddledan> I mean, aww
<etheretic> must go
<daftykins> i first snagged Brother's firmware update tool, but it only functions if you have the printer installed
<daftykins> you can't just point it to an IP...
<cydia> loskey
<Guest18488> hi
<daftykins> lo
<Guest18488> lol
<Guest18488> asl?
<daftykins> try a bit more of a grown up question
<Guest18488> alright
<Guest18488> where iam?
<daftykins> the topic explains it well enough, plus you chose to come here
<Guest18488> are you on facebook?
<TwistedLucidity> No, I'm on a chair
<daftykins> Guest18488: either start making sense or leave
<Guest18488> the problem with somepeople............
<TwistedLucidity> Is they don't know which IRC channel they are on?
<jammm> Blah Blah Blah
<jammm> remember to be nice to yourself too
<foobarry> i see Guest* as the same as twitter egg avatars..
<zmoylan-pi> or someone locked in a battle of wits with their irc client and nickserv... #cueTrekFightingMusic
<diddledan> da da dooo doooo dooooo diddledum
<diddledan> https://www.thurrott.com/windows/109962/windows-bloated-thanks-adobes-extensible-metadata-platform
<daftykins> y'linked that one t'other night :>
<zmoylan-pi> it is interesting to see were metadata leads as we often hear governments claim that there's no harm in them collecting such tiny amounts of data...
<daftykins> can only imagine the bit barn needed to hoard even that, mmm
<zmoylan-pi> they store it in taxi cab net on usb drives they free from trade shows... the data constantly circling london waiting to be retrieved...
<zmoylan-pi> brilliant... :-) https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2017/04/picture-this-senate-staffers-id-cards-have-photo-of-smart-chip-no-security/
<diddledan> interesting breakdown of how to program a character lcd: https://youtu.be/hZRL8luuPb8
#ubuntu-uk 2017-04-27
<diddledan> I'm not sure whether I'm reading this right. I ran the thingy that paul thurrott linked to which highlights how much space is being wasted in a file via xml metadata in embedded images.. my entire c:\windows is either wasting 6.9MB or 6.9GB: actual value 6911207
<diddledan> I'm unsure whether it was reading bytes or kbytes
<diddledan> if you wanna try, compile this repo using visual studio community (https://github.com/riverar/eoraptor) and run the next line in an administrator powershell terminal:
<diddledan> Get-ChildItem -Path C:\Windows\ -Directory -Recurse | Select-Object FullName | ForEach-Object { \path\to\eoraptor.exe $_.FullName | Select-String -pattern "Total: (?<bytes>\d+)" | %{$_.matches[0].Groups['bytes'].value} | ForEach-Object { $sum += $_ } }
<SuperMatt> morning
<brobostigon-one> morning boys and girls.
<davmor2> Morning all
<MooDoo> morning all
<davmor2> MooDoo: dude really we've been through this one already ;)
<MooDoo> davmor2: shush you
<JamesTait> Good morning all, happy Thank You Thursday! ð  â¤
<davmor2> JamesTait: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYxHBmVq4GM
<JamesTait> Aha! ð
<foobarry> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cUXTN6ENsKQ
<knightwise> hey peeps, how you doin today
<davmor2> meh
<davmor2> that about sums it up JamesTait does that cover  it for you too?
<knightwise> Same here
<knightwise> 5 hours of sleep is just not enough after a 19 hour workday
<JamesTait> davmor2, that'll do nicely.
<JamesTait> But foobarry's is better. ð
<davmor2> JamesTait: I meant the meh for how you are feeling right now :D
<JamesTait> davmor2, oh that! Well, I'm not sure I have quite that much enthusiasm.
<davmor2> JamesTait: hahaha
<diddledan> this is whack - the article plays on his orientation as though it would have been ok if he really had supported chelsea: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-39729568
<foobarry> my brother and cousins got assulated by a knuckle dragging spurs thug for supporting arsenal once
<diddledan> :-(
<davmor2> Man you should see what happen when there is a local derby here,  There is a full police line up the fans are marched with their hands on their heads to the ground
<diplo> Hey all, just wondering what do you guys do to store information about your customer sites. For example storing ADSL details for each site etc and licensing/hardware etc on site
<diddledan> diplo: post-it notes on my monitor :-p
<diddledan> it's a very organised system.. ;-0
<diddledan> ;-)
<diplo> It feels like that is how we work at the mo
<diplo> It sucks!
<diplo> I'm just trying to organise things as it's all in one blokes head at the mo and he's rarely in the office now and the other one who may know is leaving on May 10th and I'm sure this will all be dumped on my lap then
<davmor2> diplo: you could use taskwarrior on a server I believe it does secure coms but you would have to double check on it
 * diplo investigates
<diplo> Nope to hardcore, needs to be accessible to other people as well. trying to get away from one person knows everything. hence why I document EVERYTHING now and share it with sphinx all in a git repo too
<diplo> We've got our own case manager, but its built in house and takes forever to get extra stuff added
<foobarry> diplo: wiki for internal stuff
<diplo> Thought about that too, may have to be the way I go
<diplo> Is that what you use foobarry ?
<foobarry> for internal stuff . plus we have an internal github instance. lots of stuff lives in there too
<foobarry> and we use racktables for server layouts etc
<foobarry> however...
<foobarry> don't you use redmine?
<diplo> Nope, I want to, everything is a challenge at my work
<diplo> :P
<diplo> They say no, I do it in any free time I have, they see how great it is, we then start using it...
<foobarry> redmine has some cool CRM type plugins
<foobarry> and you can manage customers and other details
<diplo> I may chuck up another instance, is it any better with the dreaded ruby updates ?
<foobarry> i haven't updated in a while :S
<foobarry> i get scared of ruby
<diplo> That's why I haven't used it :P
<diplo> Another Q, anyone here use draytek routers ?
<SuperMatt> never heard of them
<diplo> Quite well known I believe, used mainly in SMB's
<diplo> Just trying to see if I can automate backup of configs, they have a product but it appears to be 11-12k
<foobarry> yes draytek are q good
<diplo> They're alright, thinking about moving us to ubiquiti though. trying to get the boss to get us some test equipment in
<aaronr> Hi all. I've found a bug in the Nagios package which has been fixed upstream in v4.2.2 but Debian doesn't provide anything beyond 3.x. I'd like to backport this fix into v3.5.1 which ships with Ubuntu 16.04 but am not sure how to go about tackling this... am I best off trying to get this fixed at the ubuntu level, the debian level, etc? what's the process? I have the patch already I just need to get it applied
<aaronr> somehow.
<foobarry> find the maintainers in the debian package?
<foobarry> of*
<davmor2> aaronr: well you can start by writing a bug in launchpad and attaching a proposed fix to it that might get it expedited
<foobarry> in the MAINTAINERS file
<foobarry> whats the bug btw?
<aaronr> users of a hostgroup can view servers that are outside of their hostgroup -- reported to nagios upstream in 2013 here https://support.nagios.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=21794 and fixed here: https://github.com/NagiosEnterprises/nagioscore/commit/d1b3a07ff72ece0d296b153d4d5c8c4543ed96c1#diff-b89a219dd5a0ac3e4e07f1dfd721dd78
<aaronr> there appears to be a list of maintainers here: https://packages.debian.org/jessie/nagios3
<aaronr> I'll start putting together a bug in launchpad
<etheretic> hup
#ubuntu-uk 2017-04-28
<foobarry_> firefox tab separation doesn't seem to have achieved anything. whole browser still freezes :(
<SuperMatt> Stop going to whichever site is causing it to freeze then
<SuperMatt> I haven't had firefox freeze on me for yonks
<foobarry> its random
<davmor2> Morning all
<diplo> Plugins issues foobarry ? I like SuperMatt don't have any freezes on a sub par laptop. Maybe try a fresh profile and see if that helps ?
<diplo> I run the 64bit version though if that makes a difference
<foobarry> thats the thing
<foobarry> the profile needs purging every now and then
<foobarry> its a pain
<SuperMatt> Something's wrong with what you're doing
<SuperMatt> stop doing that
<foobarry> 50+ tabs?
<diplo> I never do mine :)
<foobarry> thats work innit
<diplo> I rarely have that many in Firefox, more like 10-15 and then I start closing them
<foobarry> wasn't there a tool to copy the useful bits to a new profile and clean it up?
<diplo> I'd probably say that's more of the issue than anything else.
<foobarry> the sqlite dbs get munged up
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<foobarry>  Cleaning urlclassifier3.sqlite                done  -18.56 Mbytes
<foobarry>  Cleaning places.sqlite                        done  -16.31 Mbytes
<foobarry>  Cleaning formhistory.sqlite                   done  -.12 Mbytes
<foobarry> profile cleaner doing its thing
<foobarry>  Profile(s) for firefox reduced by 43.93 Mbytes.
<diplo> Can't say I've ever looked at something to do that
<diplo> I do run ccleaner occasionally and that's about it on my windows box
<foobarry> https://github.com/graysky2/profile-cleaner
<JamesTait> Good morning all! Hapy Friday, and happy Hairball Awareness Day! ð  ð
<diplo> Cheers!
<davmor2> tempted to just link to smellycat and say I'm done :D
<davmor2> JamesTait: ^
<JamesTait> davmor2, Tom Jones?
<JamesTait> What's New Pussy Cat?
<davmor2> JamesTait: Smellycat is funnier
<JamesTait> *hack* *hack* *wheeze* *splat*
<davmor2> JamesTait: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C5bBKsH0s5E
<davmor2> JamesTait: only song I can think of that mentions a hairball
<JamesTait> Good job, davmor2. âº
<JamesTait> davmor2, how could I have forgotten Ed Balls Day? :-O
<awilkins> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YNAsdUUwGP4
<davmor2> JamesTait: https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=28&v=Czqtjk_iGFU
<JamesTait> davmor2, he's a lot better than I'll ever be!
<davmor2> JamesTait: put a smile on my face and I don't watch it, my wifes aunt pointed it out to me but I do like awilkins too but he beat me to the song :D
<JamesTait> We're doing well on the video front today.
<foobarry> sigh, deleting slack channel messages 100 at a time...
<SuperMatt> can't be done in one fell swoop?
 * davmor2 hits the button to trigger global thermal nuclear war to kill all the slack channels.......there easy :D
<foobarry> found a tool on github to do it
<foobarry> you can only delete 1 or 100 messages at a time.
<SuperMatt> If corp ever decide to delete my team's slack channel, they're going to send a lot of time going through animated gifs of kittens
<foobarry> we are realising rather late than #general is bad
<foobarry> when you want to add the users you abused at a later stage
<foobarry> or lets say the inappropriate comments about eating noises
<foobarry> slack are gonna have to change their pricing model , its ridiculous
<davmor2> SuperMatt: hahahahahaha
<foobarry> tried that new thunderbird theme shown on omg
<foobarry> with a few tweaks, its nice
<SuperMatt> I'll just keep on using google inbox
<SuperMatt> it works exactly how I need an email client to work
<foobarry> on an always-on desktop at work, tb seems to give a more tangible feel to mail
 * davmor2 hugs claws mail
<SuperMatt> TBH, I think email needs to go the way of the dodo, but figuring out something to replace it isn't easy
<foobarry> http://imgur.com/a/kULXz
<davmor2> SuperMatt: yeah that is the problem, twitter/facebook/G+/slack/telegram...... all do a job but none replace email it still lives on because nothing beats it hands down
<SuperMatt> email's biggest advantage is it's biggest disadvantage too, the fact that it's decentralised
<davmor2> SuperMatt: and any client can plug into it because it has a standard that rarely changes
<SuperMatt> indeed
<SuperMatt> but the issue is, as show by email, by decentralising you have to come up with a robust verification method
<awilkins> Slack are like facebook - turning PHP and MySQL into bank
<awilkins> http://www.infoworld.com/article/3191210/cloud-computing/why-slack-cant-slow-down.html
<awilkins> Oh : http://www.infoworld.com/article/3191210/cloud-computing/why-slack-cant-slow-down.html
<awilkins> oops
<awilkins> http://www.nhsbuntu.org/
<SuperMatt> that looks like a gateway to hell
<SuperMatt> While I agree that the NHS using Ubuntu would be great, if it's a fork rather than a spin, they're going to end up with a security nightmare
<diddledan> this is fun: https://scotthelme.co.uk/nomx-the-worlds-most-secure-communications-protocol/ <-- hint it isn't
<TwistedLucidity> diddledan: renamed to "nosec", "nowork", or "nouse"?
<diddledan> winner winner, chicken dinner: https://youtu.be/d_S9YsD9Y0c
<SuperEngineer> errrmmmm.. don't they do building supplies?
<daftykins> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_S9YsD9Y0c
<daftykins> XD ace video from Dave at EEVblog
<diddledan> I've shared this before, but https://github.com/veorq/oee
<diddledan> daftykins: I already posted that at 15:04:25
<diddledan> tis like two lines (of real talking) before you
<daftykins> oh wow so you did
<daftykins> he's a jammy devil eh?
<diddledan> what's happening in the bananas right now?
<diddledan> apparently something big has gone wrong
<daftykins> which diddled fruit is that?
<diddledan> it's an island
<daftykins> bahamas?
<diddledan> yeah, bananas
<diddledan> Theresa is moaning that European countries are being unified. almost like they're in a union! http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/theresa-may-labour-supporters-general-election-lend-me-their-vote-brexit-success-eu-tory-leader-a7706096.html
<daftykins> "they're ganging up against us!"
<daftykins> where us is you, i mean
<zmoylan-pi> it's not a problem, they can just dump the cost of brexit on the poor people... and spare the bankers...
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi: worked for trump and his wall
<zmoylan-pi> he should make a bid on the chinese wall and see if they'll deliver...
<diddledan> seriously? have you not seen what the chinese wall keeps out?! https://youtu.be/6SKI9rgqFck
<zmoylan-pi> they really don't know how to not whitewash a movie do they? or is it ok to whitewash if there's a big wall in it?
<daftykins> ooh Ubuntu 12.04 went EOL today :)
<daftykins> there's a milestone
<diddledan> yup
<diddledan> old place of work _finally_ shut down their 12.04 box yesterday
<diddledan> they went right up to the wire, right?!
<daftykins> typical!
<zmoylan-pi> so they replaced it with a system running xp then? :-P
<diddledan> they've been rolling out 14.04 - I think they finally realised they should move that rollout onto 16.04 rather than finish it
<daftykins> hahaha
<diddledan> I really don't understand why people are so afraid to change stuff
<zmoylan-pi> years and years of updates breaking things?
<daftykins> must be due to how much the wheel gets reinvented i suppose
<daftykins> i think i went from a 10.04 VM straight up to 14.04 last - quite some changes in how apache's configs are laid out :> but not so big in the grand scheme
<foobarry> i have 2 centos 5 boxes that aren't built with puppet. its a pain to migrate the service and have lots of other things to do
<foobarry> so much to do, so little time
<foobarry> when its quite complex apps that are painful to migrate and usually provide reliable service, its hard to do it
<foobarry> you just say, just another week
<daftykins> diddledan: oh i have an amusing tale for you, prepped an old PC from a friends workplace for his wifes art gallery... popped the can and vacuumed it out etc, fired it up - oh look 14 bad sectors on the disk
<daftykins> grabbed a spare 320GB laptop drive of mine to toss in, oh look bad sectors :D
<diddledan> dodgy chip?
<daftykins> third time was the charm though
<daftykins> nah really was the disks
<diddledan> aah
<diddledan> I was getting errors spewed to the console on my xenserver box. swapped-out the cable and moved the drive to a different sata connector on the mobo and it appears stable now
<daftykins> \o/
<diddledan> has gone several days where prior it was breaking after a few hours
 * diddledan tests it now
<diddledan> yup, still working fine
<daftykins> they're a pain those, i usually snip and bin the SATA cables regardless
<diddledan> they're nice and cheap these days
<daftykins> yipyip, i just get by on spares from mobos and that too
<daftykins> that Dell and its' proprietary power one scuppered me though - http://i.imgur.com/keppJK0.jpg
<diddledan> aye, new mobos coming with 2 or more cables is nice
<daftykins> Asus were quite rude with mine and only included 2 :<
<daftykins> Z170 board too
<diddledan> that looks like a sata data plug
<diddledan> I hope it's not the same shape
<diddledan> "I'll just plug this into that drive's sata port" *bang*
<daftykins> ah it's the mobo end on the right that's the devil, the middle is just a teeny tiny for a slimline optical
<daftykins> Dell seem to have moved to putting laptop style drives in to make their cases smaller
<diddledan> aah
<diddledan> so that doesn't come from the PSU?
<daftykins> nope! mobo
<diddledan> weird
<daftykins> the PSU is some teeny tiny jobby that hs funky connectors too
<diddledan> I thought the point of ATX was to get rid of proprietary crud
<daftykins> best part? 5 phone transfers with Dell and some guy looked it up for me, the code on it there was no use to them
<daftykins> the guy then said "yep that'll be Â£38 please"
<diddledan> wat?!
<daftykins> (had to buy a second to drive an SSD as well as the disk inside)
<daftykins> yip!
<daftykins> ended up finding one on ebay from Latvia for Â£12.50
<diddledan> someone's been watching i-robot: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5V_VzRrSBI
<diddledan> it's elon musk's "the boring company"
<daftykins> never did see that
<diddledan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wqfs9yJALyc
<diddledan> that's irobert
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> hehe this is an oldie perhaps but i missed it - https://www.troyhunt.com/content/images/2016/02/46624661SNAGHTML3928683.png
<diddledan> wtf?!
<daftykins> https://www.troyhunt.com/reckon-youve-seen-some-stupid-security-things-here-hold-my-beer/
<daftykins> i'm on the Betfair one XD
<diddledan> daftykins: so. that strawberry.net. it is still like that
<daftykins> :D looks fun
<ali1234> wordpress emails new users their password
<diddledan> daftykins: I just loaded this:  https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/qqnDCXsf/
<daftykins> :O eatmon sounds like a pokemon
<daftykins> diddledan: you can self-gift them!
<daftykins> heh the person i tried didn't have one :>
#ubuntu-uk 2017-04-29
<daftykins> diddledan: strawberry security dev - http://i.imgur.com/5NYeNYa.gifv
<diddledan> Wow
<diddledan> https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8512/8545742983_fd31dbc893_b.jpg
<daftykins> ooh what can i win!?
<ball> Pie :-9
<diddledan> Raspberry?
<diddledan> So, I just ordered an lg g6
<diddledan> Oops?
<diddledan> I swear I shouldn't be allowed on the internet!
<diddledan> I'm a liability to myself
<daftykins> oof
<ball> I looked at that recently but opted for a K7 instead.
<daftykins> i thought LG were a good break from the evil of Samsung etc, but they're even worse :( class action lawsuits all around about their bootlooping devices
<diddledan> I looked at the s8 but that's samsung..!
<daftykins> EVIL!
<ball> I used a Samsun Entro for a while.  Nice phone but it's CDMA.
<diddledan> And I don't want their weird BIxby thing
<ball> ...and I need to be able to tether on occasion, too.
<diddledan> The camera looks good on the g6
<ball> ...since my VDSL craps out at least once per day.
<daftykins> d'aww
<diddledan> Smack it
<daftykins> give your copper a good brasso!
<ball> What's sad is that it's the only option here, other than a mobile phone.
<diddledan> Is that an appropriate behavior towards the constabulary?
<ball> brb, time to feed the dogs.
<ball> dogs=fed.
<daftykins> ah we have VDSL2 tech here, but then it's much more befitting of an island
<daftykins> 60 down 10 up over my ~700m line
<ball> I get 3M down and about half that up.
<daftykins> :<
<ball> ...that's just over thirty six quid per month.
<diddledan> I get 80/20 on an 80/20 service via vdsl might be vdsl2
<daftykins> your line might sync faster than that though
<daftykins> you only see your provisioned speed in most cases
 * ball nods
<diddledan> It does - reports attainable of 96/29
<daftykins> :D
<diddledan> I was only looking at those earlier today
<daftykins> ah har
<daftykins> mine was 52/20 prior to signing up to the 60/10 service
<diddledan> Apparently manufacturers are starting to make sfp vdsl2 adapters to allow routers to be made cheaper and be upgradable
<daftykins> D:
<daftykins> roll-on G.fast - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G.fast
<diddledan> Kinda like a dongle with the vdsl transceiver but being sfp it goes into a deeper hole that holds most of the unit with just the rj11 poking out
<ball> Supposedly this line could do 43M down.  Not sure I believe that.
<diddledan> Yeah g.fast is getting closer.. but are now doing real world trials
<ball> Not paying extra unless they can make the thing work more reliably anyway.
<diddledan> S/but/bt/
<daftykins> ball: mm if they're really forcing it onto VDSLx you'd be better off having it on ADSLx if it's line length that's the trouble
<diddledan> Ball, 3mbps is below the threshold to class an FTtc line as faulty
<diddledan> I believe the threshold BT set is 12mbps
<ball> daftykins: I don't think it's line length. The node is at the end of our street.
<daftykins> he's not in Blighty though!
<diddledan> Oh
<daftykins> ball: oh right so it's definitely a fiber backed cabinet of some kind?
 * ball nods
<daftykins> i take it you've tried terminating a socket right on where the pair comes into the property to rule out internal wiring?
<daftykins> not that you're technically allowed to do that, but meh ;D
<diddledan> Bedtime I think
<daftykins> indeed! just finished an episode of Cosmos there, good ol' Carl Sagan
<ball> daftykins: The network interface box has an RJ11 in it.  I suppose I could run a fresh pair out to that, to see whether things improve.
<daftykins> i'm imagining something close to the setup here, so a bunch of cables come out of the ground or sometimes from the pole over into the property, usually in a little grey plastic box - then the internal run patches onto that
<daftykins> i just stamp on a built-in filter socket there and give a sync test \o/
<ball> I /could/ put the hideous modem/router box in the garage and run wires to one or two 5 GHz access points.
<ball> ...it would be nice to get off 2.4 GHz
<ball> ...and that would free up some space in the kitchen.
<daftykins> ah well you just toss it there to test it, if it's good then you can still extend away from it, you just ideally want to do it over a nice bit o' CAT6 cable instead
<ball> (the modem/router thing looks like a VCR from the late 1970s)
<daftykins> hehe
 * ball breaks out the Cat3
<daftykins> :D sounds like string
<daftykins> ok i'm gonna sleep, let me know of your tale of success ball! :)
<ball> Hey, it's perfect for 10baseT ;-)
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<chatter29> hey guys
<chatter29> allah is doing
<chatter29> sun is not doing allah is doing
<chatter29> to accept Islam say that i bear witness that there is no deity worthy of worship except Allah and Muhammad peace be upon him is his slave and messenger
<tdaws> hello world
<daftykins> m0nkey_: ah, the man is fixing things - this weekend is good
<m0nkey_> I'm not home to watch.
<daftykins> d'aww
<daftykins> oh sorry for the distraction then :>
#ubuntu-uk 2017-04-30
<ball> Important announcement: the neigbour's bins have blown over.
<penguin42> ok, I'll send the foxes over
<ball> They'll have to fight the raccoons.  I suspect foxes have more sense than to be out in this weather anyway.
<brobostigon-one> morning boys and girls.
<tdaws> hello world
<penguin42> hey
<tdaws> Cheers...
<daftykins> diddledan: https://i.imgur.com/H8mgDdo.jpg
<diddledan> pervert dog
<daftykins> that's rude!
<daftykins> i'm giving my cat the last lap time before we both must move out
<diddledan> :-(
<m0nkey_> yey, louis read out my times square comment :)
<daftykins> :O
<daftykins> got some baseball on here so not viewing right now
<daftykins> what did you say?
<daftykins> m0nkey_: you should link us later when it's up :>
<m0nkey_> He was talking about New York, I mentioned that I visited and while on Times Square, every 3rd person came asking for money.
<daftykins> hahaha
<m0nkey_> lol
<m0nkey_> He just read another one about the Microsoft Surface
<daftykins> tuned in now :>
<m0nkey_> internet_m0nkey_ : @DummZord1 Louis is a non-believer of the Surface.
<daftykins> :D
<m0nkey_> Then he went on a short rant.
<m0nkey_> daftykins: Twitch stream/chat is more useable. Plus he reads more comments from Twitch :)
<m0nkey_> https://www.twitch.tv/rossmanngroup
<daftykins> i still can't believe he did an upgrade to 10 on his machine and wonders why things went weird
<daftykins> yeah i'm watching with twitch but using livestreamer.io :>
<daftykins> though i don't bother with opening chat mostly
<daftykins> you should try it, better quality than the site usually :)
<daftykins> you can view just chat by adding /chat to your link
<daftykins> and now i have it open on the TV via Kodi \o/
<daftykins> the english in these questions, oy.
<m0nkey_> lol. "prick" and flashes apple logo
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> did he just rip that pad on taking that green temporary wire off o0
<daftykins> out comes the windex
#ubuntu-uk 2018-04-23
<knightwise> Just did a little review of my first impressions on 18.04 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4lEQZ9whl5I
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<brobostigon> o/
<zmoylan-pi> sorry for delay but was out... :-)
<brobostigon> :)
<zmoylan-pi> just think, people on the internet were wrong and went unchallenged... :-P
<brobostigon> donald tramp syndrome?
<zmoylan-pi> no, that's old fart ranting... :-)
<brobostigon> :)
<czajkowski> aloha
<czajkowski> if I'm on 17.10 and I've done multiple updates and done alt F2 update-manager why am I not on 18.04 yet :(
<SuperMatt> because it's not officially released yet
<SuperMatt> you can upgrade to it by running update-manager -d though
<SuperMatt> Official release date is Thursday
<czajkowski> SuperMatt: ahhhhhhhhhhh that's my issue I thought it had been released
<SuperMatt> A lot of people have been using on their main machines recently because it's super duper stable
<SuperMatt> my recommendation after frist login: snap install communitheme
<czajkowski> SuperMatt: why's that ?
<Nafallo> czajkowski: also, don't they wait until .1 before update-manager will see it?
<czajkowski> Nafallo: wasn't sure tbh
<Nafallo> yeah, I'm not sure if that's just servers either.
<zleap> hi is, ubuntu 18.04 lts out this thursday ?
<SuperMatt> Yes it is
<zleap> cool
<zleap> i am making up some cd / dvd labels
<SuperMatt> we're all waiting with bated breath
<zleap> :)
<zleap> i can update my server once it is out
<zmoylan-pi> install from floppy. make it an event :-)
<SuperMatt> D:
<SuperMatt> Why would anyone do that to themselves?
<SuperMatt> Also, is that actually even possible?
<SuperMatt> I don't even have a floppy drive
<zmoylan-pi> fair enough.... punch cards.... :-)
<SuperMatt> I wonder if it's worth striping out the required modules, etc for accessing floppy disks. Make them an installable extra
<zmoylan-pi> i suspect making them an installable extra would take up more space than just leaving them in...
<SuperMatt> well there is that
<czajkowski> I've just been on a call where a person mentioned EARL many many times
<czajkowski> where EARL was url
<czajkowski> it's only Monday and I want to strangle people
<zmoylan-pi> ...so a normal monday then... :-)
<SuperMatt> pretty much
<zleap> so will 18.04 be 64bit only or 32bit too ?
<SuperMatt> good question
<SuperMatt> If you're upgrading an already installed system, I believe 32 bit is supported
<SuperMatt> https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2017/09/ubuntu-17-10-32-bit-builds-dropped
<Nafallo> zleap: i386 will still be available in the archives, but not as ISOs.
<zleap> ah ok cool
<zleap> I will download the 64bit iso and make a few dvd's up,  see if I can give away at tech jams etc
<zleap> unless there will be some more 'official' dvd's pressed like there used to be
<SuperMatt> The only thing I'm sad about with 18.04 is that the communitheme isn't official. But snap install communitheme is a good work around
#ubuntu-uk 2018-04-24
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<knightwise> hey brobostigon
<knightwise> how are you doing dude
<brobostigon> hi knightwise, averageish, a lot on my mind. and you?
<knightwise> Same here.
<knightwise> Checking out an older EEE pc on the personals
<knightwise> maybe buy it for some experimental work
<brobostigon> ah, cool.
<knightwise> always loved the 11.6 inch EEE pc's
<knightwise> it only has an atom processor and 2 gigs of ram but I think I can pimp it up a little
<brobostigon> :)
<knightwise> Depends on how much the guy is asking for it
<brobostigon> price, crucial.
<knightwise> 30 euro's is ok for me
<knightwise> not going over 50
<brobostigon> sounds not too bad.
<knightwise> gonna give it a try
<brobostigon> :)
<curl_help> can someone let me know if I can use curl to pull down a non-sequential list of files from a URL?
<daftykins> 14 whole minutes
<zleap> grrr just reinstalled my system (mint) and installed weechat and have lost my channel list
<brobostigon> oh dear, :(
<daftykins> mint :(
<daftykins> has a new version moved where it stores its' config - or did you not backup?
#ubuntu-uk 2018-04-25
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<AuroraAvenue> Happy World pengu Day https://openlibrary.org/search?q=penguins&subject_facet=Accessible+book&mode=ebooks
<AuroraAvenue> https://twitter.com/hashtag/worldpenguinday?f=images&vertical=default&src=tren
<AuroraAvenue> When is the Tri-Island World Ubuntu-penguin Day conference ? http://ow.ly/trmFq
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<brobostigon> o/
<MooDoo> howdy all
<SuperMatt> morning
<MooDoo> how are you SuperMatt ?
<SuperMatt> I'm well thank youi
<SuperMatt> WFH today, and all is good
<SuperMatt> how do moodoo?
<MooDoo> SuperMatt: yeah i'm ok, same old same old
<SuperMatt> upgrading to bionic tomorrow?
<MooDoo> SuperMatt: nah, stopped using ubuntu a while back now
<SuperMatt> You're on Fedora now, right?
<MooDoo> SuperMatt: no debian on laptop
<SuperMatt> oh
<MooDoo> servers at work are running RHEL
<SuperMatt> mad props to the communitheme team for landing gtk support in the snap package the day before Ubuntu 18.04 is released
#ubuntu-uk 2018-04-26
<AuroraAvenue> knightwise : current situation [ https://imgur.com/GyILbYC ] Hotel in Burnley on hoel wifi - no there's no talcum powder in the room.
<SuperMatt> happy *buntu day!
<zmoylan-pi> another day, another distro... :-P
<AuroraAvenue> whats is that subreddit about cassette culture named again ? I s it the Alt-J relaxer cassette ?
<zmoylan-pi> i would have thought it would be named something like, bring_your_own_pencil :-)
<AuroraAvenue> zmoylan-pi, so you're a belgian rebel with a pecil, hey ? Huh ...
<AuroraAvenue> https://youtu.be/_rsycfDliZU?t=4s
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<AuroraAvenue> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AiMXd4U8kFQ | how mu ch a plastic squirrel these days ?
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<brobostigon> o/
 * zmoylan-pi waits patiently for xubuntu so it will be a while yet...
<BionicMatt> You can probably just upgrade now without any issues
<brobostigon> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BionicBeaver/ReleaseAnnouncement seems release has happened.
<ali1234> that's early
<ali1234> isnt it normally released at like 4pm?
<brobostigon> no idea.
<ali1234> also isn't it normally official when that mail is sent to ubuntu-devel list?
<ali1234> lenovo have finally released a stand alone update iso for x250 bios, so i'll be applying that first... when i figure out how to boot it from USB
<knightwise> hey peeps
<brobostigon> hi
<knightwise> hey brobostigon how are you dude
<brobostigon> half asleep, and you?
<knightwise> at work, trying to make the day go by faster
<brobostigon> good luck.
<knightwise> yeah ..
<knightwise> been trying out ubuntu 18.04 over the last  week
<knightwise> looks realy good
<knightwise> broke my install yesterday by trying out the community theme
<psutton> hi all
<brobostigon> hi
<psutton> just waiting for the 18.04 release
<brobostigon> :)
<psutton> i have 4 labels printed out ready too
<zmoylan-pi> a badly scribbled label with a sharpie on a dvd not good enough? :-)
<psutton> i have printed lables off
<psutton> as i have pressit label kit
<psutton> so just need to burn dvd, test it then stick a label on
<zmoylan-pi> whatever happened to the tech that allowed you to print pics on the data side of the discs...
<psutton> zmoylan-pi: hand written labels are good for personal use,  looks bad if giving out cds / dvds
<psutton> zmoylan-pi: lightscribe
<psutton> or is that differet
<zmoylan-pi> ppppftttt... i sent critical security patches on reformatted aol floppies back in the day :-D
<psutton> lol
<psutton> i remember installing slackware from floppy
<psutton> used rawrite from MSDOS to create the disk sets
<zmoylan-pi> install instructions written in pencil on a post-it... a really professional organisation... :-)
<psutton> oddly that was havng to copy to the floppy disks from cdrom as linux didn't quite support cd drives as well back then
<psutton> i am guessing 18.04 isn;t out yet,
<psutton> looking at the website, i do get old sites caught up in the cache sometimes,
<zmoylan-pi> i think it is... i'm waiting for the xubuntu flavour...
<psutton> ok
<zmoylan-pi> i never got on with unity
<psutton> i think ubuntu uses gnome now
<zmoylan-pi> except for a few months when i had a laptop that resisted removing windows 8 and when i finally got ubuntu on after a few months it was less unpleasent than win 8 for a few months... :-)
<psutton> i use x/lubuntu on netbooks
<psutton> and mint on main desktop
<zmoylan-pi> less of a memory hog
<psutton> however given how well suported both ubuntu and mint are,  sometimes it is good to go with what is well supported
<psutton> yeah xubuntu is nice
<psutton> esp when installing for others
<psutton> debian is another option, for installs
<knightwise> i have been running the final beta since the beginning of the week , very pleased with it so far
<psutton> i am also waiting for the server release for my od PC which I am using as a server
<psutton> or want to stick 18.04 server on and hve a go with stuff
<psutton> mainly put the assault cube back on
<zmoylan-pi> xubuntu has a nice win2000 ui feel that i like
<psutton> yeah
<psutton> i remember getting boxes of ubuntu cd's from people on here
<zmoylan-pi> i just bought linux mags with the discs on the front and if anyone asked i'd pass them along
<psutton> i am guessing the next issues will have ubuntu 18.04 on anyway
<psutton> which is handy for the various flavours
<zmoylan-pi> before broadband it was often the easiest way...
<psutton> mint 19 is out may / june as that is based on ubuntu
<psutton> i am hoping warzone2100 will work, it crashes on my main system when run
<zmoylan-pi> give me a browser, a text editor and a terminal to steer them by...
<psutton> i also have a stack of flash disks that are going to need updating
<psutton> thankfully the tech jam is taking a few months off
<psutton> so i have time to make up resources like that
<zleap> hi maxam9
<maxam9> zleap: hi
<zleap> hows you ?
<maxam9> ok thanks
<zleap> cool
<zleap> i like the sound of the minimal install feature in 18.04
<zmoylan-pi> lots of chromebooks getting an install with less storage for just the os i suppose
<zleap> well chromebooks use google apps don't they,  great if you have a good internet connection and want to sign up to google
<daftykins> Swedish guy in another channel works at a school or similar and is pushing chromebooks out for everything, can't help but feel i'd feel very restricted on such a device
<daftykins> makes sense for the students who are highly likely to regularly break them though
<zmoylan-pi> yes, but you can also wipe chromeos and put crouton on and use linux :-)
<daftykins> yeah i've done it for people - it was a real abortion of an implementation
<zmoylan-pi> chromebooks are _great_ for schools. cheap and easy to centrally manage
<zleap> yeah
<zleap> i have heard of crouton
<zmoylan-pi> and isn't there a new option that's even better than crouton that means the chromebook doesn't even need to be in developer mode?
<zmoylan-pi> so turns the chromebook into a netbook
<daftykins> sounds like something someone recently said, i forget the detail though
<zmoylan-pi> crostini
 * zmoylan-pi pats newsbeuter for been a keystroke away on my rasp pi... :-)
<daftykins> beuter o0
<zmoylan-pi> https://liliputing.com/2018/04/googles-crostini-lets-you-run-gnu-linux-apps-on-chromebooks-without-enabling-developer-mode.html
<daftykins> now the limited storage space will become even more of a problem!
<zleap>  i am guessing they used an ssd
<zleap> can internal storage be upgraded, i am sure the acer aspire ones (or eeepcs) could be upgraded
<daftykins> no they didn't
<zmoylan-pi> on the windows /chromebook/ i got, no panel at bottom to upgrade ram or drive so i'm guessing it's soldered on
<daftykins> they're eMMCs typically so a lot more limited i think, but then there are a lot of models of chromebook so who knows what the higher end ones are
<zleap> i guess you need to do a lot of research on em
<zleap> I have a few netbooks (HP 10" screens) they seem to run chromium
<zleap> i think chromium is a OSS version of chromeOS
<zleap> hp Mini 210
<zmoylan-pi> i thought chromium was a degoogled chrome browser
<daftykins> i think that's the browser on its' own
<daftykins> the open source project Google Chrome the browser is based upon
<daftykins> !info chromium-browser
<zmoylan-pi> i have a hp mini 210... great little netbook
<lubotu3`> chromium-browser (source: chromium-browser): Chromium web browser, open-source version of Chrome. In component universe, is optional. Version 65.0.3325.181-0ubuntu0.17.10.1 (artful), package size 51346 kB, installed size 183040 kB
<zleap> dunno., i think these things get intgerchanged, and it gets confusing what people are refering to
<daftykins> ^
<zleap> ok so running chromeOS then, one of the young people downloaded something to make netbook in to a chrome book
<zleap> zmoylan-pi: i have a stack of em the school I worked at
<zleap> they run lubuntu really nicely so some of them have that onm,  the others are awaiting an OS
<zmoylan-pi> and the hp mini 210 could be upgraded from 1gb it was shipped with to 2gb
<zleap> yeah I need to do that with the one I use
<daftykins> i wouldn't consider 2GB practical now
<zleap> well 2gb is better than 1gb
<zleap> i think if you are careful what you install you're fine with em
<zmoylan-pi> i only stopped using the 1gb hp a year or two back as my main system :-)
<daftykins> and a thrown out netbook is better than a netbook :>
<zleap> yeah
<zleap> actually they run the Raspbian desktop really well
<zleap> now there is gpip extender it is possible to plkug in a raspberry pi and get access to the GPIO
<daftykins> i think standards vary a lot, the minute you put modern websites or a youtube video near a device that's a real test of whether it'll sink or swim
<zleap> but that also depends on your internet speed / connection quality
<zmoylan-pi> yeah, the hp was great as long as you didn't use the web... :-)
<zleap> mine is ok
<zleap> granted I don't do much intensive stuff,  on it
<zleap> runs weechat nicely
<zmoylan-pi> then it was okish as long as you only had a few pages open and those not too busy with css/video etc.
<zleap> yeah
<zleap> i will upgrade mine to 2gb
<daftykins> and heavily adblock :P
<zmoylan-pi> lynx as your main browser... :-)
<daftykins> hah
<zleap> lynx, alpine and irc
<zleap> weechat or irssi what else do ya need
<zmoylan-pi> and don't forget newsbeuter for rss :-)
<zleap> yeah
<zleap> tmux for multi desktops
<zmoylan-pi> tytter for twitter
<zmoylan-pi> sc for spreadsheets
<daftykins> well when you look on ebay and can get a 12 or 14" Lenovo Thinkpad with an i5 4th gen (haswell), 8GB RAM and 256GB SSD for Â£200 it begs the question why limit yourself
<zleap> and stuff lke cmatrix, and top to scrare the heck out of the general public
<zmoylan-pi> nano for text or vim
<zleap> oh and cat /dev/random (or what ever it is)
<zleap> anyone looking over your sholder things you some uber hacker trying to break in to something
<zleap> ping -100 localhost :D
<zleap> ping - t 100 localhost :D
<daftykins> -c 100
<zleap> yeah
<daftykins> zleap noted user of hackertyper.com ;)
<zleap> what is that
<zleap> i just get a blank page
<daftykins> start hitting keys
<zmoylan-pi> right, time to limp to the shops... o/
<daftykins> enjoy o/
<zleap> that is good
<zleap> esp if you hit the keyboard really fast
<zleap> :D
<zleap> daftykins: what do people think when the see you using that site ?
<daftykins> haha i was told about it by a woman from the Netherlands, i don't feel the need to pretend :P
<zleap> ah
<zleap> it could get people in to trouble at school though
<zleap> teachers are paranoid, (esp the clueless ones)
 * zleap wonders when 18.04 is going to be out today
<zleap> how is the last min bug squishing going ? :)
<zmoylan-pi> is it anything like starship troopers? do you want to know more? :-)
<zleap> just asking how it was going,  aparently they found a critcal bug at the last minute
<zleap> hats off to teh testing team i guess :)
<zmoylan-pi> it can be a very hard decision to put the brakes on at the very last moment before release
<zleap> yeah
<zleap> must have been something very serious
<zmoylan-pi> or embarrassing... someone mispelled ubuntu... :-P
<zleap> i have written a script that will download the iso,  download the MD5SUMS file and runs a check on the iso
<zleap> once downloaded
<zmoylan-pi> i usually wait for xubuntu, then wait a week more in case there's trouble then give it a bash...
<zleap> yeah
<zleap> i got a script ready either way
<zleap> i can modify that for what ever i want
 * zmoylan-pi goes back to seeing if i can get street view working on my shiny nokia 3310... :-)
<zleap> ok
<zmoylan-pi> huzzah, i just missed the option
<zleap> ah :) so it works
<zmoylan-pi> yes, it looks bizzare to see what is essentially a dumbphone wuth street view... :-)
<zleap> ah
<zleap> dumbphone, oh non smart phone thing
<zleap> iirc you can buy the screens for 3310s for artduino projects
<zmoylan-pi> https://twitter.com/angryearthling/status/989589439935647745
<zleap> i replied as @dcglug
<zleap> cool
<zleap> hi AuroraAvenue
<AuroraAvenue> I don't want to e that guy, sorry.
<AuroraAvenue> **be
<zleap> be who ?
<AuroraAvenue> the guy who has vodka at a funeral.
<zleap> ok
<zmoylan-pi> poitÃ­n it is... :-P
<zleap> i was just replying to the tweet about streetview on a nokia
<AuroraAvenue> streetview - it needs a mask
<AuroraAvenue> does anything else do streetview, (not a game tho)
<AuroraAvenue> ^ ?
 * AuroraAvenue grips a packet of Brie And Cranberry Crisps.
<zleap> there is open street map, and openstreetview
<zleap> very much work in progress and user contributions
<zmoylan-pi> sadly they have no java client for dumbphones...
<zmoylan-pi> i have looked
<zleap> is there an api
<zleap> someone could write one
<zmoylan-pi> number of people writing apps for dumbphones now is fairly low...
<zleap> yeah
<AuroraAvenue> so much for winter !
<zleap> it is summer in the UK now
<zmoylan-pi> i believe i did see a forecast today that mentioned snow...
<zleap> they mentioned hail
<zleap> but hail and thunderstorms are possible anyway
<zmoylan-pi> and summer in uk i thought was june, july, august
<zleap> we are on british summer time
<zleap> gmt+1 i think
<zleap> probaby still spring i kinda lost track
<zleap> esp given the weather is weird
<zleap> ok i will see if I can download 18.04 in the morning
<zleap> chat later
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<AuroraAvenue> http://www.wttr.in/wales
#ubuntu-uk 2018-04-27
<BionicMatt> morning
<jwt> Friday!!! Whooo!
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<BionicMatt> morning
<BionicMatt> Today I am patiently waiting for Digital Ocean to release their 18.04 droplet so I can upgrade
<brobostigon> morning
<BionicMatt> <3 snap install firefox --beta
<brobostigon> hmm, do-release-upgrade only sees 17.10 as the most recent version, not 18.04. odd.
<BionicMatt> add -d
<BionicMatt> also, have you done an apt update?
<brobostigon> ptaylor@deepthought:~$ sudo do-release-upgrade -d
<brobostigon> Checking for a new Ubuntu release
<brobostigon> Upgrades to the development release are only
<brobostigon> available from the latest supported release.
<brobostigon> its not seeing it.
<BionicMatt> strange
<BionicMatt> lsb_release -c?
<brobostigon> lsb_release -c
<brobostigon> Codename:	xenial
<BionicMatt> how odd
<brobostigon> i agree.
<brobostigon> i changed  /etc/update-manager/release-upgrades to lts, and do-release-upgrade has seen it.
<BionicMatt> ah, your machine was trying to upgrade to 16.10
<BionicMatt> which of course is not supported any more
<brobostigon> seems so.
<brobostigon> https://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=199035 confirmed that bug already.
<lubotu3> bugzilla.kernel.org bug 199035 in Bluetooth "BCM2046B1 and hid2hci generates highcpu usage due to udev since 4.14 kernel" [High,New]
<zmoylan-pi> come back irda, all is forgiven... :-)
<brobostigon> :)
<zmoylan-pi> it was just rs232-c done over infra red... i know a song about that... :-)
<brobostigon> :)
<zleap> hi all
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<diddledan> \o
<brobostigon> o/
<diddledan> \o/
<zmoylan-pi> =^..^=
<diddledan> that last one of mine should be seen like a person trying to get the attention of the speeding runaway train driver
<zmoylan-pi> i thought trains were now designed to stop without a human at the controls...
<diddledan> I didn't say he was negligent. just that there was a driver, in a train going too fast.. he was probably on a mission from the flying spaghetti monster
<diddledan> pasta-martyrdom attracts all sorts these days
<zmoylan-pi> damn the spaghetti liberation front...
<diddledan> at least they're not as bad as the people's popular front of spaghetti liberation
<diddledan> he's evil!
<zmoylan-pi> a dangerous man if he has access to a colander...
<zleap> hi all, ubuntu 18.04 looks pretty nice
 * zleap has made 12 dvd's so far today,  time to start trying to convert people,  at least with LTS the cd's are good for a few years
<zmoylan-pi> do a lot of people still have optical drives? bit of a dying tech...
<zleap> some desktops still have them]
<zmoylan-pi> i just hope you find a home for all the disks you burnt...
<diddledan> there's only so many coasters you can make out of discs before it gets stupid
<zmoylan-pi> i just keep an iso or 3 on my 128gb usb drive...
<zleap> i have updated my usb sticks too,  so ubuntu, ubumtu server and lubuntu
<zleap> so today has been productive for a change :)
<diddledan> I had a big poo
<diddledan> ok, that's a lie, I've actually done sod all
#ubuntu-uk 2018-04-28
<daftykins> diddledan: you are a bad man
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<brobostigon> o/
<DJones> Evening all
<penguin42> hey
<DJones> How do penguin42
<DJones> Long timesince speak
<penguin42> good,a nd you?
<DJones> Not bad, recovering, long time off ill, getting over it now, maybe able to start paying attention in channels
<penguin42> ah, well good you're getting better
<DJones> Hopefully
<AuroraAvenue> I just bought a horn_pipe from http://mmicros.co.uk/index.html in Altringham :D
<zmoylan-pi> have a neighbour with a noisy dog? :-P
<AuroraAvenue> yes - I also bought this,
<AuroraAvenue> https://frama.link/gpd-pocket
<AuroraAvenue> Can I use Bionic with the device, ya think ?
<AuroraAvenue> ..............
<AuroraAvenue> No-one answered - guess popey looses the chance to goose another device :)
<penguin42> wow, there's something useful in Altrincham
<penguin42> hmm well maybe, their website doesn't have much on
#ubuntu-uk 2018-04-29
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<SuperMatt> Server upgraded to 18.04 :)
<SuperMatt> Perfect way to spend a Sunday morning
<brobostigon> :)
<brobostigon> upgraded myself on friday, spotted one wacking huge bug, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1767603 , thus had to disable bluetooth in the bios, to make the system usage.
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 1767603 in linux (Ubuntu) "BCM2046B1 and hid2hci generates highcpu usage due to udev since 4.14 kernel" [Undecided,New]
<brobostigon> usable*
<zmoylan-pi> it amazes me that bt is still such a maybe it will and maybe it won't on linux...
<awilkins> Esp when you think "hang on, Android phones are all Linux..."
<zmoylan-pi> i have seen flaky bt on android. my fitness tracker wouldn't sync with app on older samsung i used last year if i had bt headphones connected at same time
<zmoylan-pi> had to turn off bt, turn off headset, turn on bt and then sync for reliable connection
<zmoylan-pi> just the samsung phone, all the others have worked fine
<zmoylan-pi> but other phones have had their quirks too
<DJones> \o/ Fresh install of Bionic Beaver since upgrade failed, wouldn't mind, it was virtually bog standard with only one ppa for Java
<penguin42> how did the upgrade fail? I'd had this machine upgraded during the alpha/beta?
<DJones> It failed on restart, hung after starting GDM, I think it was to do with nvidia from repo's, that was the next commands being run after gdm starting, but I didn't bother investigating any further
<penguin42> ah
<penguin42> I'd take out any 3rd party driver before an upgrade and add it back later
<DJones> It was from the offical repo's, so I wouldn't class that as 3rd party.  Fair enough its a closed source binary, but I'd have expected that to have been tested
<DJones> Probably just a one off issue over some random failure though
