#ubuntu-uk 2011-06-13
<kaushal> Hi
<kaushal> I do diff orgfile newfile How do i apply entries in orgfile to newfile ?
<kaushal> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/625658/
<AlanBell> if people want to pile on to wiki-test.ubuntu.com and try and break it that would be great
<DJones> AlanBell: I'm getting cannot find www.wiki-test.ubuntu.com, but worked in a fashion using http:// which asked me if I wanted to use http://wiki-test.ubuntu.com/?
<popey> DJones: why put www in front of it?
<popey> Tip: Don't.
<DJones> Heh, true
<diplo> morning all
<dogmatic69> o/
<dogmatic69> could anyone point me to some tutorials on writing decent bash stuff?
<dogmatic69> like making it show up in man etc
<BigRedS_> tldp.org ?
<BigRedS> To make it show up in man you need to write a man page and install it
<BigRedS> which is a distinct kettle of fish
<dogmatic69> k
<dogmatic69> is that going overboard?
<BigRedS> It depends
<BigRedS> I've not written anything in bash that I could justify more than a --help for
<dogmatic69> i am busy building a bunch of libs to make life easy
<BigRedS> but more documentation is normally useful, as long as you manage to keep it good
<dogmatic69> ye, maybe --help is all that is needed
<ali1234> AlanBell: i tried to log in with launchpad openid and it just times out
<MooDoo> hello all
<DJones> ali1234: AlanBell Firt part of sign in works, but then has stopped after asking "Sign in to Ubuntu Wiki (Test)" with a waiting message, then also timed out
<ali1234> yeah same here
<AlanBell> reported
<MooDoo> quiet in here
<oimon> yep
<jerome> All?
<MooDoo> jerome: huh?
<jerome> Moodoo: Wron channel :)
<MooDoo> jerome: ah :)
<jerome> s/n/g
 * jerome should leave monday morning mode soon
<MooDoo> jerome: i'll do that about 3pm this afternoon ;)
<jerome> Yeah, at this time it'll be post lunch mode
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<popey> lo
<diplo> morning brobostigon
<selinuxium> Hi all   o/
<brobostigon> morning popey diplo and selinuxium
<diplo> popey, did you ever do a blog post on your Elec cost etc set up ?
<diplo> Also, do you have any idea how much it costs a day/month or wat ever to run your HP mini server box ?
<popey> i dont know the power of the hp box
<popey> if you'd asked me friday I would have plugged it into the power meter
<diplo> kk, will see if i can work it out some how
<popey> but I'm not going to switch it off now âº
<diplo> :D
<diplo> No worries, no rush.. if you ever do remember I'd appreciate it.
<diplo> Being single now i really am watching pennies, but would love to have a server on 24/7 at home
<diplo> But only got old towers atm
<diplo> So want to have some idea on how much elec it will cost me
<diplo> :)
<AlanBell> something like Â£1/year/watt I believe
<AlanBell> so if the box draws 30W then Â£30/year
<diplo> Thanks AlanBell I had heard that
<diplo> But I know my Dell TS105 pulls a hell of a lot more than that
<diplo> I suppose i could look on HP's site and see if it offers any info
<popey> diplo: also, mine is not a standard one
<popey> diplo: mine has 5 disks in it
<diplo> heh yeah I had read that
<diplo> I want that many in mine eventually once I have some spare cash
<davmor2> morning all
<diplo> morning
<davmor2> popey: did you deal with your pci express card in the end?
<popey> yes, it came with a smaller bracket
<popey> installed fine
<popey> 00:11.0 SATA controller: ATI Technologies Inc SB700/SB800 SATA Controller [AHCI mode] (rev 40)
<popey> 02:00.0 RAID bus controller: Silicon Image, Inc. SiI 3132 Serial ATA Raid II Controller (rev 01)
<popey> âº
<diplo> Oh you have added another card to allow more drives
<DJones>  Does anybody know of a way of converting "20110613" to a normal date format in Excel
<diplo> =DATEVALUE seems to spring to mind
<diplo> just having a google now
<DJones> datevalue seems to go the other way
<diplo> yeah I was wrong :)
<diplo> Been a while since I've used excel
<DJones> seems a good place to start though, might give me a link to the right command though
<diplo> =value(left(a2,3)&/
<diplo> ozgrid.com
<diplo> Seems to have a good explanation
<DJones> Thanks, I'll have a look
<popey> diplo: yes
<popey> diplo: I have an external EDGE10 box with 4 bays
<popey> and the cheapo onboard SATA interface wont show multiple drives in one enclosure
 * czajkowski bangs her head against a wall dealing with companies/recruiters who dont mail back 
<popey> so i added the pcie card to enable that
<diplo> nice, really need to find myself some spare cash
 * davmor2 prods czajkowski hello
 * MooDoo says alright to davmor2 and prods czajkowski as well
<popey> I should probably do something with the other 3 hp microservers
<davmor2> MooDoo: Watcha Mucka
<diplo> 3?Â¬?Â¬?Â¬?
<diplo> Sell them off uber cheap to me
<diplo> :)
<diplo> 1*
<popey> heh
<MooDoo> davmor2: how you doing this fine day?
<davmor2> popey: bitmining or better usage would be a cluster for mine craft you know it makes sense
<popey> not sure the cpu has enough grunt for minecraft
<davmor2> MooDoo: you confusing fine with miserable, frey and cold again?
<MooDoo> davmor2: i've got man flu, it's a curse
<davmor2> MooDoo: there, there, not down to too much alcohol at all then :)
<MooDoo> davmor2: no not this time
<davmor2> MooDoo: bummer dude hope you get well soon
<MooDoo> davmor2: hopefully it's a 24 hour thing
<daubers> Morning
<MooDoo> morning daubers
<oimon> http://www.boutiqueacademia.com/products/Ubuntu-Earrings.html
<MooDoo> oimon: yeah saw them on pleias post
<oimon> there's some great stuff on that site
<BigRedS> I've an apache2 revers proxy which is returning an HTTP500 apparently without writing anything to the logs. Is this indicative of the proxied-to host returning an error? I'd expect that to be logged, too
<davmor2> Morning daubers is this from your windows box?
<BigRedS> hah. no it's indicative of my having not loaded mod_proxy_http
<diplo> Anyone recognise this name Bruno Girin ?
<diplo> I recognise it from some where Ubuntu related
<popey> Yes
<diplo> Just wanted to get in contact with him ref something he is writing for Shotwell :)
<popey> he works / worked on shotwell
<diplo> Want to test if he needs a tested
<diplo> Ah!
<diplo> :)
<diplo> tester*
<popey> http://twitter.com/#!/brunogirin
<DJones> diplo: http://uk.linkedin.com/in/brunogirin
 * diplo follows and looks
<diplo> ta
<popey> https://launchpad.net/~brunogirin
<ali1234> speaking of shotwell
<popey> his gmail account is there
<ali1234> so my monitor has a card reader in it
<diplo> lol, I really don't know why i didn't check any of those ( maybe not linked in ) but i normally do .
<diplo> Cheeers guys
<ali1234> every time i turn it off then on again (every day) it reenumerates the card reader and then shotwell loads, because the card has photos on it
<ali1234> it's really annoying
<ali1234> i never said to automatically open stuff
<popey> pull the card out?
<ali1234> no
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: don't turn it off manually, use the automatic standby :)
<ali1234> fix ubuntu
<ali1234> i wish there was a way to turn off the monitor from software without having to wait for the timeout
<hamitron> isn't there a lock screen button?
<ali1234> yes, it just locks the screen, it does not turn off the monitor
<hamitron> ah :)
<hamitron> never played with such things much
<ali1234> besides i don't use screenload or screensaver
<ali1234> i just turn off the monitor
<ali1234> it's much easier and it never happens accidentally while i am doing something
<hamitron> yeh, same
<wintellect> How do I query which pkg contains an installed app?
<popey> dpkg -S `which <program>`
<oimon> wintellect: apt-file search will search across all packages
<wintellect> popey: oimon - thanks
<czajkowski> c
<czajkowski> grr
<czajkowski> grr
<MooDoo> czajkowski: wassup?
<czajkowski> stupid keyboard
<MooDoo> czajkowski: not using dvorak or something silly are you? ;)
<oimon> PEBCAK
<czajkowski> nope
<czajkowski> mini 9
<MooDoo> ah little keyboard then
 * BigRedS is incompatible with netbook keyboards
 * hamitron upgrades BigRedS to something better
<BigRedS> Nah, it's the netbook that needs upgrading!
<hamitron> :D
<daubers> davmor2: Yes
<andylock1an> heya
<gord> mini 9's :(
<gord> hard enough to type on a 10
<oimon> has anyone ever seen a zune IRL?
<davmor2> daubers: wow I knew windows was slow I had no idea the lag would be that bad, /me waits another 4 hours for a reply
<daubers> davmor2: :p I blame this "work" concept. Get's in the way of _everything_
<davmor2> daubers: haha
<gord> sometimes i swear, work gets in the way of work even
<daubers> gord: Yes! I spent 3 days yesterday doing project management stuffabout project management :(
<daubers> 3 days last week even
 * daubers needs moar coffee
<gord> was gonna say ;)
<davmor2> gord: only when trying to work on things not directly related to work but are rewarded by work for working so hard on it, right?
<daubers> doesn't help that it's just warm and muggy enough to make you sleepy today
<gord> davmor2, its monday, i stopped reading what you said after the second work
<davmor2> gord: haha
<davmor2> work getting in the way again :D
<andylock1an> :p
<davmor2> gord: I got a second hand copy of dragon age 2 who ever said it was smaller lied :)  the map is but there are more quests and sub quests that the first with more downloadable ones if you get bored with the original game
<gord> davmor2, i said its smaller, because it is :P
<davmor2> gord: but the games bigger there are more places they just happen to be in one city rather than an entire continent
<gord> davmor2, its way smaller, the main city is bigger than the other cities in da1, but that doesn't mean the game is bigger
<davmor2> gord: I'm 50% of the way through it (ie quest 1 is complete) and I've only completed 18% of the game.  I think the issue is if you don't look for the extra elements you don't complete them
<gord> davmor2, i did pretty much everything the game had to offer, still beat it in a week, made sure to do all the quests i could find
<bigcalm> Ello peeps
<davmor2> gord: did that include all the mail you get at your home?
<gord> yup
<gord> i mean, i had fun whilst i was doing all that. i would of stopped if i wasn't. but its not as big a game as da1. which makes sense, they made the entire thing in like a year
<MartijnVdS> Tame(ish) birds++ http://www.flickr.com/photos/treenaks/5828812586/in/photostream
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS: like it :)
<daubers> MartijnVdS: My brother keeps telling me they're almost as dumb as owls
<daubers> But then he would :)
<MartijnVdS> daubers: This bird's trainer is trying to get a proper crow, they're supposed to be a bit smarter
<davmor2> gord: I noticed all the duplication of areas which didn't seem so apparent in DA1 and I hate the fact that you can't get to some areas at all
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS: http://www.flickr.com/photos/prjmellors/5828829596/
<gord> davmor2, which area's can't you get to?
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: cool]
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS: not the original, it's a scanned version of the one i did
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: Still a cool pic :)
<daubers> MartijnVdS: Apparently. He deals with birds of pray more often than not
<davmor2> gord: on the summit there is a cavern with a door the one end and a magic shield the other nothing opens either door,  there were a lot of places where you went in but there were no way to get through to places on the map
<gord> davmor2, right, those places are because of duplicating the area's. each time you go into a cave or whatever, it'll just use the same map but open different areas
<davmor2> gord: yes which is a bit crap
<MattJ> Ooouch :(
<MattJ> I just discovered I've been hit by https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pam/+bug/790538
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 790538 in pam (Ubuntu Hardy) "pam update causes cron to stop working with "Module is unknown" error" [Critical,Fix released]
<MattJ> and that I have no backups for the past 2 weeks
<MooDoo> MattJ: ouch....
<popey> oops
<popey> I had the same
<popey> but spotted it sooner
<selinuxium> erm... am I missing something... How do I map a windows drive in Unity?
<MooDoo> selinuxium: use the command line ;)
<daubers> selinuxium: Go into nautilus, hit ctrl+l then enter smb://blah blah blah :)
<MattJ> popey: I'm accustomed to the cron emails being in my inbox every morning, I guess I've been thinking about too much other stuff the past couple of weeks to notice their absence until today
<selinuxium> MooDoo, daubers So what happened to the GUI?
<MattJ> and I won't complain too loudly, having messed up a security release of my own around the same time
<daubers> selinuxium: The "Connect to Server" one?
<selinuxium> daubers, yup
<daubers> selinuxium: Go into nautilus, then it's in the file menu
<daubers> selinuxium: I tend to use the ctrl+L method as it's quicker, and I do that about 10 times a day
<MooDoo> popey: your tumbleweed page has caused great amusement in our office today :D
<popey> heh
<davmor2> MooDoo: it would still be better animated
<MooDoo> davmor2: it is
<gord> note to self rm -r *nux* may also delete lots of files with the word "linux" in them...
<MooDoo> davmor2: tumbleweed goes accross the screen
<davmor2> woo hoo popey when did that happen
<davmor2> haha nice
<popey> about a month ago
<davmor2> popey: Yeah I think I looked at it but had forgotten as it hadn't appeared on here that much :)
<andylock1an> url?
<MooDoo> andylock1an: tumbleweed.popey.com
<andylock1an> nice background
<JGJones> This keep going on and on and on in my head: oh moshi, you're so fine! you're so fine you blow my mind, HEY MOSHI! HEY MOSHI!ï»¿
<JGJones> Yes, my daughter have discovered the Moshi Monster music video on YouTube and is playing it. Over and over. I'm starting to wonder if I have a baseball bat somewhere for "essential repairs" to the speakers?
<MartijnVdS> JGJones: Time for some iptabling on the router ;)
<andylockrans> ls
<MartijnVdS> ls: Command not found
<popey> .
<popey> ..
<popey> goat_porn
<andylockrans> :)
<popey> howdy howdy howdy
<MartijnVdS> \o popey
<andylockran> oh.. dear
<oimon> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Mining_hardware_comparison something's wrong here
<oimon> why is nvidia so poor compared to amd here?
<dogmatic69> oimon: you making bitcoins?
<hamitron> amd tend to have more processing cores
<JGJones> MartijnVdS, she'll just find another source. She always seem to manage it - a geek in the making :-)
<Azelphur> oimon: it's an arch issue, nvidia is faster at floating point math, amd is faster at integer math
<Azelphur> you can guess which is more useful for bitcoin
<hamitron> nvidia is better for gaming though
<Azelphur> ^
<oimon> dogmatic69: there shouldn't be that big a difference though
<oimon> Azelphur: ^
<Azelphur> oimon: sure there is
<andylockran> how long does it take to generate 0.01 coins?
<andylockran> I've installed it on OSX and my balance is 0.00
<MartijnVdS> andylockran: it takes forever (for all intents and purposes) unless you join a mining group
<Azelphur> ^
<oimon> why are so many people doing BC?
<Azelphur> because it's profitable if you do it right
<oimon> umm
<gord> thats not the reason ;)
<Azelphur> it's my reason :D
<Azelphur> that and of course, it's damned fun
<Azelphur> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/Photos/May%202011/IMG_20110525_034107.jpg
<gord> i think most people are doing it because its fun to set up, its an interesting technical challenge in both the hardware and software realm
<Azelphur> I went in with the intention of making money + it's fun
 * MartijnVdS might be strange, but I don't see the fun in it :)
<Azelphur> I'm doing both :)
<gord> if your doing it to make money, there are easier ways
<oimon> yeah, like begging
<Azelphur> indeed, bitcoin mining isn't for the faint of heart
<Azelphur> if you don't like building and tweaking, don't bother
<oimon> it's a nonsense though really
<oimon> how can cpu cycles wasted on generating numbers have value?
<MartijnVdS> SHA-something might be safe now, but what if it's cracked (like MD5 and SHA1 before it)
<dogmatic69> Azelphur: lol
<gord> oimon, because its a limited resource
<MartijnVdS> same with ECC
<Azelphur> oimon: supply and demand
<oimon> but it's not real
<oimon> why would anyone want it?
<MartijnVdS> oimon: neither is normal money
<Azelphur> oimon: it's as real as any other currency is
<gord> oimon, coins are just metal, notes are just paper
<oimon> yes, money is real
<Azelphur> oimon: so if I print a qrcode to a bitcoin on a piece of paper is the bitcoin real?
<oimon> notes are a promise
<MartijnVdS> oimon: not anymore
<Azelphur> ^
<Azelphur> oimon: bitcoin are very lucrative for buyers, lots of people are buying them as investment, also as a safe place to store money without worry about it being frozen or stolen by authorities
<Azelphur> the pirate party for example have all their funds in bitcoin now
<oimon> on your 1st point...as an investment ..
<MartijnVdS> But can I buy bread for bitcoins?
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: yes
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: Not at my local baker's
<oimon> it's not legal tender, no
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: My supermarket doesn't want bitcoins
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: that's like saying you can't buy bread at your local bakers with US dollars
<oimon> it's an internet bubble
<gord> oimon, put simply, bitcoins have a value because people are willing to buy them, to exchange local currency in some form, or trade something, for them. which is no different from any other currency
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: bitcoin is an internet currency, you buy shit off the internet with it.
<oimon> Azelphur: only among people willing to accept the imaginary currency
<gord> oimon, it may well be :) it may well fall apart tomorrow, but so might our own currency
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: except nobody accepts it, except private torrent sites (piracy anyone), pirate parties, child porn rings, etc.
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: wrong, huge amounts of companies accept it now.
<Azelphur> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Trade
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: you can get your bread from the consumables section, I'd guess :)
<diplo> They reckon that the porn industry is going to pick up on bitcoin soon don't they
<diplo> As it's a anonymous payment as such
<Azelphur> indeed, it's lucrative to a lot of people for a lot of reasons
 * MooDoo goes to the net to see what bitcoin is
<MartijnVdS> I think it's going to be as niche as PGP/GPG
<MartijnVdS> Only geeks use it
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: *Shrug* maybe
<MartijnVdS> (and people with "special interest")
<Azelphur> at the end of the day I don't care I got a free supercomputer.
<Azelphur> or nearly free, anyway.
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: why not use it to do protein folding then? :)
<Azelphur> because protein folding won't pay the power bill
<Azelphur> (unfortunately)
<oimon> BTC is as much a currency as trading pokemon cards
<Azelphur> oimon: pokemon cards have (had) value
<oimon> how much Â£ in power does it take to mine Â£ in BTC
<Azelphur> I sold a bunch of them back when I was a kid :p
<Azelphur> oimon: look on the mining hardware page, it shows mhash/j figures, you can calculate it from that
<oimon> Azelphur: it was a perceived value created by temporary demand
<Azelphur> *shrug*
<Azelphur> if it is I don't mind, I already made my money :D
<oimon> we'll laugh about it in 2 yrs
<Azelphur> I won't, I'll be like "bitcoin was awesome"
<Azelphur> "I got a free supercomputer"
<gord> we may do oimon, or we may all look like morons for not getting in on that
<Azelphur> lol
<Azelphur> ^
<oimon> i'm happy to be the moron
<gord> thats fine
<oimon> especially with 150-node HPC clusters at my disposal
<popey> good luck mining on those
<Azelphur> lol
<oimon> they have GPU processing units too
<Azelphur> I bet they are nvidia
<oimon> is mining windows only then?
<Azelphur> oimon: hell no
<Azelphur> oimon: my mining cluster is ubuntu server netbooted
<gord> i wonder if it would make more sense to mine on ps3's. those cell chips are really quite quick
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: did you get it to work then? :)
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: as in, properly
<gord> and ps3's are about as expensive as a gpu
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: yep
<Azelphur> gord: it doesn't
<andylockran> Cost of machines + electricity > generated bitcoin value ?
<Azelphur> andylockran: by far
<Azelphur> I mean, by far on the profit side :p
<Azelphur> I havn't had my rig for a month and it's nearly paid for itself
<andylockran> Azelphur: how many bitcoins do you have?
<oimon> Azelphur: how much Â£ have you converted then?
<Azelphur> oimon: Â£1400
<Azelphur> andylockran: 18.88 + 100 NC
<popey> Azelphur: do you do pooled mining?
<Azelphur> I had a few days of downtime :(
<Azelphur> popey: I did, I've decided to stop pool mining now though
<popey> oh?
<popey> have you actually found any without pooling?
<Azelphur> popey: BTCmine was nice, then they enforced a 2% fee, so then I switched to btcguild which had lots of rejected shares, so switched to eligius which wasn't bad but also charges a fee and takes tx fees
<Azelphur> I've found blocks while in a pool
<Azelphur> but I havn't solo mined bitcoin yet
<Azelphur> I'm mining namecoin atm
<Azelphur> I mined like Â£30 worth of namecoin last night, but I was extremely unlucky on the solo :(
<Azelphur> I only got 100, if averages had held true I should have had something like 1000
<Azelphur> still hoping that I get lucky a couple times before difficulty hikes :p
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: isn't it hiking already?
<popey> it hikes periodically
<MartijnVdS> popey: well, yes, but faster and faster
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: it hikes in a matter of hours
<Azelphur> and yay, just found another block ^_^
<popey> which card was it again?
<Azelphur> 8x5870 for me
<popey> ATI sommat
<davmor2> popey: the one on the left
<Azelphur> my next rigs might be 5970's though if I can get a decent price
<MartijnVdS> What's the current block count?
<Azelphur> on namecoin? 12063
<MartijnVdS> No normal bc
<Azelphur> 130552
<MartijnVdS> ah, I'm a few behind then
<popey> does it matter how much RAM the card has?
<popey> I guess not
<Azelphur> popey: not at all
<Azelphur> popey: and you can underclock the memory for lower power / heat :p
<MartijnVdS> I have >2k confirmations for my single transaction now
<andylockran> how do you get teh rcpusername/password?
<Azelphur> andylockran: are you aiming at pool or solo
<andylockran> Azelphur: I'll ride solo I think :)
<Azelphur> andylockran: what gpu?
<Azelphur> (s)?)
<andylockran> Azelphur: nvidia 7900
<andylockran> not a new one :s
<andylockran> or a recent one
<andylockran> is that a bad idea?
<Azelphur> very bad idea
<andylockran> So find a pool?
<Azelphur> you can't even mine on a 7900
<Azelphur> it doesn't support OpenCL
<andylockran> ah, ok
<Azelphur> 8 series+ only
<Azelphur> and using anything that low will net you a higher power bill than profit
<andylockran> what about an ion :p
<Azelphur> nvidia is very difficult to make a profit off
<andylockran> Azelphur: other machine is a MacBookPRo
<Azelphur> only the really high end nvidias actually have a semi-decent hash rate
<Azelphur> but even the high end ones like the GTX590 pale in comparison to a budget ATI card eg the 5870
<Azelphur> check out https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Mining_hardware_comparison
<andylockran> 6490M on tha tpage
<MartijnVdS> the 6990x3 is OMG
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: a little over half what my setup does :)
<Azelphur> only, the initial cost is probably the same as me :p
<andylockran> Azelphur: how much did you invest?
<Azelphur> Â£2000
 * MartijnVdS has a ... looking up..
<andylockran> Azelphur: and you've already made your money back?
<Azelphur> andylockran: nearly
<andylockran> I'm interested - I know some retailers got done in the early 90s for creating a virtual currency.. I know very little about it though.
<Azelphur> *shrug* if it goes pop I've already won as I say
<Azelphur> the risk is pretty much over for me now
<MartijnVdS> I have a single ATI 5570
<MartijnVdS> 102 Mhash/s / 1.46 Mhash/J
<MartijnVdS> apparently..
<MartijnVdS> ah only half.. the 102 one is overclocked
<Azelphur> hehe
<Azelphur> use http://bitcoinx.com/profit/index.php for your calculations, make sure your not making a loss with your power requirements
<Azelphur> and if your average generation time is more than 10 days it's probably time to pool mine (I'd recommend eligius)
<Azelphur> time for me to go cook for the family, /wave
<Core_UK> Were does VirtualBox keep its VHDs?
<popey> Core_UK: where you put them âº
<Core_UK> they were hidden popey
<popey> sometimes ~/.VirtualBox ?
<Core_UK> yeah :)
<Core_UK> silly me
<Core_UK> what do you reckon is the MINIMUM ram I can use on a wikimedia LAMP server intended for a <5 users?
<Core_UK> 64mb pushing it too far?
 * popey shrugs
<Core_UK> ok :)
<MartijnVdS> That sounds a lot like "what happened when you tried" ;)
<Core_UK> MartijnVdS: i am trying 64mg
<hamitron> MartijnVdS: I got 70 MH/s on a standard clocked 5570
<hamitron> Core_UK: I reckon it can be done
<Core_UK> hamitron: it works fine so far
<Core_UK> gonna try adding some content and see what happens
<hamitron> LAMP works fine on 32Mb memory
<Core_UK> damn if you would have told me that :P
<hamitron> I have it running on 16Mb with the 2.4 kernel
<hamitron> ;)
<Core_UK> lol
<Core_UK> my very first PC was 16 mgs
<Core_UK> MBs*
<Core_UK> happy days
<hamitron> it just so happens, it is my first PC too :)
<hamitron> I reckon I've had my moneys worth out of it
<Core_UK> you mean
<Core_UK> you STILL have it
<Core_UK> ROFL
<Core_UK> that is epic
<hamitron> yeh, p120 cpu
<Core_UK> damn
<Core_UK> i think mine was a p120 or something, overdrive or whatever they called it
<hamitron> if I code something and it works well on it, I know it doesn't take too many resources
<popey> my first pc was an 8MHz 8088 PC.
<popey> Epson!
<Core_UK> ok
<hamitron> I really want something that old :/
<Core_UK> that was WELL before my time lol
<popey> It had a MDA video card
<popey> _no_ graphics
<popey> I want a VT101
<hamitron> I've sold all the 486 I had, but now regreting it
<popey> I still have one 368
<hamitron> :-o
<popey> actually, no, 286
<hamitron> wanna sell me it?
<hamitron> :D
<Core_UK> I am trying with 8MB RAM
<Core_UK> awww "error: the initrd is too big."
<popey> Toshiba 1910CS laptop
<popey> http://www.toshiba-europe.com/bv/computers/products/notebooks/t1910cs/index.shtm
<popey> quality website
<popey> oh, 486
<MartijnVdS> > he new Microsoft BallPointÂ® V 2.0 with QuickPortâ¢ is the ideal mouse when you're on the move
<popey> "graphics accelerator"
<MartijnVdS> popey: back when that meant 2d acceleration :)
<hamitron> 486 is too powerful for what I want :/
<popey> heh
<MartijnVdS> hamitron: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_8008 ?
<hamitron> anyways, food is ready, so bbl o/
<popey> I loved my IBM Model 50Z
<popey> used to play Links Golf on that
<hamitron> I want a 286 ideally
<popey> http://john.ccac.rwth-aachen.de:8000/alf/ps2_50z/
<MartijnVdS> hamitron: for what? :)
<popey> happy days
<popey> that is a 286
<hamitron> the minimum to run minix 2.0
<hamitron> ttyl o/
<MartijnVdS> popey: with a 486 upgrade? nice :)
<popey> haha
<MartijnVdS> I sort of skipped the 286/386 era.. went straight from 8088 to 486DX33
<MartijnVdS> my dad then gave me a 386DX40
<Core_UK> the place where windows go when minimised
<Core_UK> what is that called?
<MartijnVdS> "the bar on the left"
<Core_UK> taskbar?
<Core_UK> haha
<Core_UK> my is on the bottom :P
<Core_UK> mine*
<MartijnVdS> Core_UK: ah, old Ubuntu?
<Core_UK> 11.04 classic
<MartijnVdS> yes, old ubuntu -- "classic" :)
<Core_UK> I want to google something
<Core_UK> but do not know how to phrase it
<Core_UK> i want to move the vbox icon from my 'windowbar?' into the notification area
<MartijnVdS> Core_UK: That's not possible unless the app has a feature for it
<Core_UK> :(
<Core_UK> do you know the name of what I am refering to though?
<MartijnVdS> task bar and notification area
<Core_UK> i was right :D
<Core_UK> thank you
<MartijnVdS> well it's the task list applet really
<MartijnVdS> on the bottom panel :)
<MartijnVdS> but people call it the taskbar anyway
<Core_UK> there is an alltray in the repo
<Core_UK> seems to have bad reviews though
<JGJones> Hmm hamitron if you're after OLD computers...I have a Radio Shack TRS-80 Model 4 to sell....
<MartijnVdS> JGJones: don't tell HazRPG :)
<JGJones> MartijnVdS, I'm selling it so of course I'm telling! :D
<JGJones> No idea if it works come to think of it...I've not gotten around to plugging it in so I should do that.
<hamitron> JGJones: afraid I have no use for a Z80 cpu
<hamitron> :/
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: ^_^
<diplo-> evening all
<HazRPG> download fest was awesome ;D
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Andrew] Papyrus Feed Reader Mockup - http://whyareyoureadingthisurl.wordpress.com/2011/06/13/papyrus-feed-reader-mockup/
<Core_UK> any linux gaming fans in today? :)
<Azelphur> yep
 * hamitron is a gaming fan, but Azelphur is more a linux gamers
<hamitron> and he lives \o/
<Core_UK> meeting tomorrow
<Core_UK> they trying to start up the group again
<Azelphur> group?
<Core_UK> ubuntu gaming
<Azelphur> fun
<hamitron> what does that entail?
<Core_UK> dunno
 * BigRedS can think of a way of finding out
<BigRedS> :)
<Core_UK> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GamingTeam/Meetings/Minutes/2011-06-14
<Core_UK> I think a website would be cool
<Core_UK> like
<Core_UK> xbox live for ubuntu
<Core_UK> play each other at games, post your scores with other gamers etc
<Core_UK> no? okay...
<hamitron> dunno
<hamitron> a common place to talk about what works is good for me
<hamitron> :)
<Core_UK> you mean as in wine?
<hamitron> anything
<Core_UK> wine is for freedom haterzzz!
<hamitron> just games
<Core_UK> yeah defo
<hamitron> I have nothing against closed source though
<hamitron> :)
<Core_UK> thats cos your a freedom haterz y0
<hamitron> just want those offering it, to offer it in a format I can use
<Core_UK> yeah defo
<hamitron> hate is a strong word :/
<Core_UK> nah its not ask richard :)
<Core_UK> mr stallman
<Core_UK> i was just jesting though :D
<JGJones> bah Opera might be closed source but it's still goddamn awesome - they follow web standards after all.
<Core_UK> I think closed source is okay while it is small
<hamitron> I guess there are different ways to look at it
<Core_UK> aka not microsoft google etc :)
<hamitron> as a user I like open source
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> but if I develop something, I may not want to give my work away
<hamitron> so can see it from both sides
<Core_UK> indeed
<JGJones> I always find it daft that some people think that because I use open source I won't pay for software. Pure garbage.
<Core_UK> free = libre
<hamitron> JGJones: yeh
<Core_UK> people confuse free as in freedom
<Core_UK> as there is no word for free in the sense of freedom in english ><
<hamitron> I see anything where I don't have to pay, as free ;)
<Core_UK> indeed
<Core_UK> and the confusion begins
<Core_UK> its libre software not free software
<daubers> lo
<Core_UK> we should ask oxford to introduce libre into the english language :P
<Core_UK> eening daubers
<hamitron> i confess, I choose good software over libre :/
<hamitron> but that is why I like linux, it is good
<daubers> I tend to use whatever works best most of the time
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> yeh
<Core_UK> me too
<Core_UK> with a baise towards libre
 * AlanBell tends to talk about software freedom
<Azelphur> (19:27:39) hamitron: I'm starting to hate linux
 * Azelphur run
<Azelphur> s
<Core_UK> libre i think is most important with tools (software as a tool) and less important in other area's, such as gaming,
<hamitron> I hate everything
<hamitron> ;/
<hamitron> linux is just the most good atm
<hamitron> ;)
<Core_UK> hamitron: you need ethics training freedom hater
<Azelphur> hehe
<daubers> Core_UK: Ah, the irony in hypocrasy
<Core_UK> ha ha
<hamitron> if I ever invent something that will make me millions, I would take the millions :/
<daubers> hamitron: I would as long as it didn't endanger peoples lives
<hamitron> please forgive me ;)
<hamitron> daubers: there are a few things that would make me think it through ofc
<Core_UK> are we alive without freedom?
<Core_UK> i am only jesting by the way I am not a free software zealot don't worry :)
 * hamitron checks his pulse
<hamitron> yes :D
 * AlanBell is working on a presentation that includes the 4 freedoms
<Core_UK> for what purpose AlanBell ?
<Daviey> AlanBell: oh no.
<Core_UK> Richard Stallman will love you in heaven :)
<hamitron> poor AlanBell
<hamitron> :/
<Core_UK> :
<Core_UK> lol
<jacobw> someone did a presentation about the reform of copyright laws in the UK and how it would affect free software at the LUG i attend last time i was there
<AlanBell> presentation is for this tomorrow http://www.smartgovlive.com/
<jacobw> it seems that policy makers still don't understand the information age
<AlanBell> not entirely true :0
<jacobw> how so? i suppose i shouldn't generalise
<AlanBell> it is a more complicated picture than that
<TheOpenSourcerer> jacobw: There is another presentation on copyright and FOSS on Wednesday evening in London: http://www.theiet.org/local/uk/london/central-Open-source-software.cfm
<jacobw> there must :)
 * hamitron doesn't worry about the law part of stuff
<Core_UK> :0
<hamitron> Core_UK: I'm big on using something as it was intended to be used as, not worrying about the fine print of the law
<Core_UK> I'm big on using stuff as I feel it was intended :P
<hamitron> not just ignoring all terms the software is released under
<hamitron> yeh
<Core_UK> and ignoring the law
<Core_UK> i mean
<Core_UK> not really, of course
<hamitron> well, I dont like breaking copyright
<Core_UK> depends
<hamitron> but I wouldn't use a loophole in some license, to use it in a way the author didn't want
<Core_UK> depends if it is the author i am dealing with, or a massive multinational that misuses the author...
<Core_UK> lot to consider
<hamitron> for example, I wouldn't pirate MS Windows
<hamitron> :)
<Core_UK> i dont pirate but i have no objections to it in some scenarios
<hamitron> as much as I hate some of the things MS have gone about things in the past, I wouldn't pirate it, I'd choose to not use it if I felt strongly enough
<hamitron> no software is important enough for me to do without
<hamitron> :)
<jacobw> stick to debian/ubuntu, the people who make policy have thought about these things so you don't have to :)
<Core_UK> well now no
<BigRedS> there's a bit of a difference between Debian's and Ubuntu's, er, policy there
<Core_UK> KFC or McDonolds?
<Core_UK> ok wrong chat sorry :P
<BigRedS> haha
<BigRedS> I was trying to make that analogy fit :)
<jacobw> that's true, i was more thinking of debian when i said that.
<Core_UK> rofl
<Core_UK> debian are so cool
<hamitron> debiaan = freedom, ubuntu = profit?
<hamitron> ;)
<Core_UK> for geeks
<Core_UK> debian = bling
<BigRedS> jacobw: yeah, debian doesn't do the "your system's too free, have an NVidia driver" thing :)
<BigRedS> nah. Debian's stuck to the ideal of making the best OS they can according to Debian's definition of 'best'. Ubuntu's aiming for popular.
<jacobw> i don't think ubuntu are doing anything wrong, its just a different approach to computing.
<jacobw> people don't like change :| whether its unity or sudo or whatever.
<hamitron> I'm against boycotting the nvidia drivers..... I paid for a card and expect them to provide me a driver for the money ;)
<BigRedS> haha
<BigRedS> wow. the stories are true. rpm is _really_ slow
<hamitron> sudo = 5 extra chars to type
<hamitron> :/
<BigRedS> for each command
<hamitron> yeh
<hamitron> haha
<hamitron> I don't like to sound lazy
<hamitron> but it makes a difference
<hamitron> ;/
<BigRedS> why not? Laziness is a virtue
 * hamitron has mastered it
<hamitron> I never saw what was wrong with su -c
<jacobw> its true, rpm sucks.
<hamitron> I found fedora rather fresh last time I tried it
<jacobw> well, apart from having to enter you password for each command..
<BigRedS> yeah, I'd head the stories but I've been pretty good at avoiding it for a while
<Core_UK> have not used rpm since mandrake
<hamitron> jacobw: then I use on -c
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> last time I used rpm on commandline was in slackware
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> with the old nvidia driver
<hamitron> does suse still use rpm?
<jacobw> yeah
<jacobw> they have 'zypper' now though
<jacobw> which is like yum but good
<hamitron> yum is easier to spell
<hamitron> :/
<czajkowski> AlanBell: ping
<hamitron> reminds me
<hamitron> need coffee and cake
<hamitron> brb
<jacobw> hmm, cake.
<hamitron> I have to wait
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> cooker isn't free
 * hamitron sighs
<TheOpenSourcerer> If you've been following the Mark Taylor/Computercentre story here's a nice take: http://www.itworld.com/it-managementstrategy/173673/two-faces-uk-open-source
<jacobw> i can't stop thinking about cake now :(
<hamitron> me neither
<hamitron> :D
<hamitron> time for some DIRT 3 I think
<hamitron> bbl o/
<AlanBell> o/ czajkowski
<czajkowski> AlanBell: ca you pop into -ie
<jacobw> :o rally games are great
 * jacobw was a big fan of vrally back in the day
<JGJones> hamitron, I don't like yum.
<JGJones> hamitron, it make me hungry.
<JGJones> :)
<JGJones> btw if you're doing a lot of sudo stuff - I tend to use sudo -s
<JGJones> that's to hamitron btw.
<hamitron> JGJones: you have just won me over to sudo, ty
<hamitron> jacobw: any racing game :D
<hamitron> I do prefer wheel to wheel racing
<hamitron> :/
<Pendulum> hamitron: what about wheelchair racing? ;-)
<Pendulum> that's someone that should be done with the Wii or Kinect
<Pendulum> a wheelchair racing simulator game!
<hamitron> that could be kind of cool
<hamitron> I remember racing wheel chairs at school
<Pendulum> one of my mates and I once got yelled at in an IKEA for racing our wheelchairs
<hamitron> haha
<bigcalm> Hah
<Pendulum> she was beating me in a crappy store wheelchair too :(
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> well, there is a time and place!
<Pendulum> (compared to my superlight-weight made for me in my chair)
<hamitron> like the car park? ;)
<hamitron> you could have fatigue and stuff
<Pendulum> yeah, but it was a 'Midnight Madness' event all for uni students. And there was no one in front of us and we're both good enough with our chairs we wouldn't have hit anyone!
<Pendulum> hamitron: I do. just it was a first sign at one point that things had progressed for me because I should have been much faster
<hamitron> sorry, I was thinking about a game
<Pendulum> (this was almost 4 years ago. these days I wouldn't even try to beat her)
<hamitron> :D
<Pendulum> :)
<Pendulum> actually, that would be cool
<Pendulum> I wonder if it'd be a way to get new wheelchair users more used to the motion...
<hamitron> twin accelerator
<hamitron> and twin brake
<hamitron> and "rush mode"
<Pendulum> not to mention get all of you unlucky enough not to need wheelchairs an example of what it's like ;-)
<Pendulum> but without all the crappy bits
<hamitron> yeh
<hamitron> not gonna be realistic though
<jacobw> hamitron: :D i love racing games too.
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> but it could be fun
<Pendulum> crappy bits = social barriers like people not bothering with installing ramps
<jacobw> :(
<hamitron> Pendulum: you don't think some people may get upset with such a game?
<Pendulum> hamitron: some people might, but I suspect they'd be in the minority
 * Pendulum asks twitter what they think
<diplo-> Any of you guys use S3 for storage/backup ?
<Pendulum> it could be an idea that only sounds good to me because I have a fever :P
<hamitron> I'm sure such a game could be fun to play
<hamitron> diplo: out of my budget :)
<diplo-> Well I just looked, doesn't seem that expensive or I am reading it wrong
<hamitron> I don't think it is, I'm just too cheap
<hamitron> ;)
<diplo-> Why I was asking to see if others used it
<jacobw> Streak Hoverboard Racing was a great game :)
<hamitron> jacobw: I never played it
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> once upon a time I wanted to buy every racing game I could find
<hamitron> but all this DRM on new games has put me off
<hamitron> I used to buy everything I could, then copy to cdr for my cd wallet
<hamitron> so originals are kept nice
<hamitron> now I begrudge paying for software, because you can be sure the activation servers won't be there for ever, and I will want them to always work
<hamitron> :/
<gord> yup, just typed amazon.co.uk in to amazon.co.uk. i'm a moron
<jacobw> yeah, this is why i don't play games any more
<jacobw> philosphical objections :(
<jacobw> yo gord, i heard you like amazon.co.uk so i put some amazon.co.uk in amazon.co.uk :P
<hamitron> how mcuh do they have it for?
<jacobw> hehe
<hamitron> and does it qualify for super saver delivery? ;/
<hamitron> I hate paying delivery charges
<jacobw> perhaps people have been overcomplicating how to value amazon..
<gord> i have amazon prime :) works out well if you buy lots of useless stuff like me
<jacobw> i used to have that, but the trial ran out :(
<dutchie> i had the trial
<dutchie> amazon don't seem to have noticed that it ought to have run ou t
<dutchie> out
<dutchie> so :)
<jacobw> :D
<hamitron> prime?
<dutchie> yeah
<hamitron> is that the 1 click thing?
<jacobw> free one day delivery
<hamitron> ah, nice
<jacobw> sort of.. they charge you just before you remember to cancel the tra
<jacobw> trial
<hamitron> i not used amazon since I pre-ordererd F1 2010 and they ripped me off
<dutchie> hmm, they may have charged me then
<dutchie> oh well
<jacobw> its not cheap, its about Â£40
<hamitron> for how long? :|
<jacobw> i think itd supposed to be Â£40/year
<jacobw> night
<gord> amazon prime is cheep if you buy lots of stuff
<gord> the way i figured out was i added up all the regular delivery fee's i was paying, turned out it was more than amazon prime is monthly, so now i'm paying less money and get one day delivery thrown in for free
<hamitron> super saver!
<hamitron> ;)
<hamitron> an excuse to make me wait, to encourage me to pay them more :/
<michelle_> I've got some good bargains pre-ordering books. For most other things, though, it ends up more expensive. I just tick "free delivery" and am happy to wait the extra few days.
<michelle_> I don't buy games any more because they don't install easily on Linux. I do still play Unreal Tournament 2004, because it came with a Linux installer on the original DVD. I'm getting my money out of that game.
<BigRedS> I did that for a while
<BigRedS> then valve made portal
<BigRedS> 2
<BigRedS> and I caved in
<michelle_> I am considering Portal 2 ... and also Duke Nukem. Have so far resisted.
<BigRedS> I even found myself a 'wintendo' desktop background
<michelle_> ... mostly because I remember how much of a pain it is to install and maintain Windows.
<gord> duke nukem is getting very bad reviews
<gord> 3/10 and such
<BigRedS> oh yeah, I got someone else to configure Windows for me
<michelle_> ... and I count maybe two or three years before it won't play on the future Windows releases.
<michelle_> That sucks for investment in a game.
<BigRedS> gord: yeah, I'm hearing that the major (only?) good thing about it is that it's duke nukem forever
<gord> BigRedS, there really isn't any quality of it you could deem good
<michelle_> Well .. we've waited ... "forever"... to get it!!!
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Community Leadership Summit 2011 - http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/06/13/community-leadership-summit-2011-2/
<gord> ha, rebecca black's seminal "friday" video on youtube now costs $2.99 to view it, you get 72 hours of rental for that price
<popey> bit late for that bandwagon
<BigRedS> haha
<BigRedS> bah. my run of conceiving of things, writing the code, and it Just Working has come to an abrupt end :(
<gord> you would of thought they would of just thrown mandatory adverts on it like other annoying youtube videos
<AlanBell> anyone want to point out spelling errors and such on http://libertus.co.uk/
<dutchie> AlanBell: some of the paras on the "Services" page should have full stops/semicolons instead of commas
<dutchie> AlanBell: specifically "integration and customisation" and "hosting"
<AlanBell> semis it is then
<hamitron> I missed that
<hamitron> ><
#ubuntu-uk 2011-06-14
<AlanBell> TheOpenSourcerer: o/
<TheOpenSourcerer> Just about to leave.
<AlanBell> ok
<MooDoo> hello all
<popey> morning
<MooDoo> morning alan
<DJones> Morning all
<MooDoo> morning
<diplo> Morning all
<wintellect> Mornin all
<BigRedS> G'morning!
<diplo> AlanBell, do you guys use Alfresco ?
<dogmatic69> sup BigRedS
<BigRedS> Morning dogmatic69! Not a lot, you?
<dogmatic69> coding
<dogmatic69> nothing to exciting going on
<dutchie> oh you stupid computer
<BigRedS> must be user error
<dutchie> http://askubuntu.com/questions/47591/dpkg-hangs-on-updates AGAIN
<BigRedS> ok. perhaps that one's not user error
<BigRedS> does ask ubuntu replace the launchpad questions thing?
<dutchie> i have no idea
<bigcalm> Good morning workers
<dutchie> lo bigcalm
<BigRedS> g'morning
<MooDoo> bigcalm: workes?  /me looks around
<bigcalm> Quite
<bigcalm> I have a week off and my inbox looks horrible
<BigRedS> just mark all as read
<bigcalm> And then go back to bed?
<BigRedS> yeah
<bigcalm> That's my kind of Tuesday \o/
<BigRedS> haha
<bigcalm> Just had physio, so really do feel like going back to bed
<oimon> woke up at 4am due to dog whining and couldn't sleep for 3 hrs :(
<oimon> by the time i fell asleep it was just before the alarm went off and i felt rubbish
<daubers> lo
<jpds> eth0
<BigRedS> hurr
<oimon> have you guys read the shuttleworth interviwe http://www.networkworld.com/news/2011/061311-mark-shuttleworth.html
 * popey clicks
<oimon> i'm sure you've already seen it popey, nothing gets through the popeywall
 * bigcalm beams a smelly cheese to popey
<popey> no, I hadn't seen it
<popey> have added it to the news for the next podcast show
<popey> thanks!
<oimon> np
<oimon> there's also a bit in the interview where he says that he bought an ipad because of popey
<popey> lol
<oimon> [citation needed]
 * MooDoo shakes his head and did actually look for that part of the interview....FISHED IN
<oimon> o/-----------------------------(moodoo)
<oimon> thats MooDoo on the end of my fishing line
<oimon> update from my train company yesterday: "Service disruption caused by a toy balloon obstructing the overhead powerline equipment near Ponders End"
<dogmatic69> lol
<BigRedS> haha
<czajkowski> aloha
<MooDoo> hello czajkowski x
<oimon> slapping 10.04 on a PC for a friend....still feels good, even on old PC
<oimon> + ubuntu-restricted-extras, skype , chromium, move buttons to right and you're done in < 30 mins
<popey> hahah
<oimon> (plus delete the bottom panel), and download the ubuntu manual onto the desktop
<oimon> even on 512mb it runs sweetly though
 * oimon has some more spare pcs..
<ali1234> lol ubuntu on 512mb
<ali1234> i hope the person never tries to run anything except vim and mutt
<oimon> chromium , facebook, youtube, etc all run fine
<oimon> that's 90% of av. joe's activity
<ali1234> chromium in 512mb is painful
<oimon> nah..not with 3 tabs
<ali1234> and that's before you go to a page that uses flash
<ali1234> 4gb is not enough to run ubuntu these days, 512mb is a joke
<oimon> it all depends on your usage patterns
<ali1234> usage pattern = load firefox, visit a webpage
<oimon> my work PC needs 4gb true, cos i never shutdown
<czajkowski> hmm machine is running rather slowly today m
<oimon> hmm must remember to uninstall gwibber and install hotot
<gord> i opened 400 720p images in gimp... my computer is also running slowly now :(
<dogmatic69> hehe
<MooDoo> lol
<ali1234> that's only 1.4gb
<czajkowski> is there a tool to spring clean unwanted packages, does janitor do enough ?
<popey> czajkowski: apt-get autoremove
<popey> but thats almost certainly not causing your machine to run slow
<czajkowski> After this operation, 6,574 kB disk space will be freed.
<czajkowski> popey: thank you
<czajkowski> xorg has already randomly rebooted on me today
<czajkowski> :s
<popey> it will delete all your date though.
<popey> *data
<popey> (kidding)
<czajkowski> popey: I know you're not mean enough to ever give someone a command to do that kinda thing
<czajkowski> plus
<oimon> jokes about data are not funny :P
<czajkowski> I know where you live and I'd come and kiillllllll you
<oimon> they come back to eat you
<popey> haha
<gord> huh... thats the third person i have heard of mentioning xorg crashes today
<czajkowski> gord: I've a ppa in for a fix from someone who helped me fix it
<MooDoo> czajkowski: wow is this the old aggressive you coming back to us?
<czajkowski> but before I had the ppa in it would do it 2-3 times a day
<popey> woop woop!
<czajkowski> MooDoo: no this is me who woke up at 5am
<gord> czajkowski, intel?
 * popey hugs his two RAID 10 arrays!
<czajkowski> gord: aye
 * oimon is having problems converting a DVD to .rec format :(
<gord> czajkowski, whats the ppa?
<czajkowski> gord: hmmm
<popey> hmm, I should just add this second RAID10 to the first and make one giant LVM
<czajkowski> gord: I tweeted it at the time
<czajkowski> lemmie see
<czajkowski> navigating at times via unity confuses me
<czajkowski> gord: see pm :D
<czajkowski> adding his ppa to it fixed it http://ppa.launchpad.net/sarvatt/sru3/ubuntu/
<czajkowski> for natty
<oimon> hmm is there a bug # assocaited with this czajkowski?
<czajkowski> https://launchpad.net/~sarvatt
<czajkowski> oimon: yes or I'd not be doing it :) but I don't know the bug number off
<czajkowski> cant find the bug I logged as it was a duplicate it seems
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<MooDoo> brobostigon: good morning si
<MooDoo> sir
<brobostigon> MooDoo: good morning, :)
<oimon> hmm
<oimon> somebody who has left and is now working at a bank still has a user account on our network. they are rsyncing VERY private info to their home dir on my systems
<oimon> i don't think that stuff is really designed to go offsite
<popey> is it a cron job?
<oimon> no, he's run an rsync over ssh
<popey> i run rsync over ssh
<popey> via cron
<jpds> oimon: apt-get install -y slay
<oimon> possibily cron on the remote machine..none on my server
<oimon> hopefully i can close the account
<popey> thats what I meant
<popey> i.e. it could be something that he had running regularly and you've just spotted it
<oimon> it's funny how he doesn't think much of the confidentiality
<czajkowski> oimon: it is also possible he's forgotten it's doing it
<czajkowski> or at least to that extent
<oimon> it seems quite deliberate
<oimon> looking at the command history..
<jpds> slay is your friend.
<oimon> i prefer userdel
<oimon> slay then userdel
<czajkowski> oh jpds  :D
<daubers> oimon: Or you could redirect the folder he's mucking around with with an alias and make him download /dev/urandom every time :)
<oimon> or replace every jpeg with goatse
<bigcalm> Anybody good with regex tell me why 'kevin.m.young@bankofamerica.com' is failing against /^[^@]+@[a-zA-Z0-9._-]+\.[a-zA-Z]+$/
<gord> bigcalm, ^[^@]+@[a-zA-Z0-9._-]+\.[a-zA-Z]+$ matches fine
<gord> bigcalm, make sure you have multiline mode enabled in your parser
<screen-x> morning :)
<bigcalm> Humm
<screen-x> Whats the Status of NFS4? According to https://help.ubuntu.com/community/NFSv4Howto UID/GID permissions don't work without kerberos, tell me this isn't so!
<bigcalm> gord: ta. Looks like there is a special char at the end of the email address
<livingdaylight> greetings
<gord> bigcalm, also your regex won't match all email addresses Â¬_Â¬ you may get angry nerds yelling at you
<brobostigon> good morning livingdaylight
<livingdaylight> brobostigon, morning morning
<livingdaylight> Is everyone aware that Operation Empire State Rebellion is now Engaged?
<livingdaylight> agues not! LoL
<livingdaylight> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XySGw-g2tyk&feature=player_embedded
<AlanBell> diplo yes
<diplo> Is it worth a good bit of effort to set up ?
<diplo> Place i work now have nothing bar a smb share atm
<diplo> And stuff everywhere
<JGJones> sigh...Google might focus on being blazing fast with their searches but their MX records validation is slower than a snail for Google Apps....
<MartijnVdS> JGJones: negative TTL + normal TTL
<livingdaylight> guys, I have issues with skype. no mike. Must I switch away from Pulseaudio and if so how/where?
<JGJones> MartijnVdS, the MX records was setup about 2 days ago. Validation started last night
<livingdaylight> skype points out that i'm using pulseaudio, under options, whether that implies that there lies the issue i'm not clear
<MartijnVdS> livingdaylight: it's probably right
<livingdaylight> I've asked in #ubuntu and the only feedback i'm getting is that this is an issue with 11.04. I'm not the only one it seems
<MartijnVdS> also, pulse is the right choice
<livingdaylight> MartijnVdS, there used to be options in the drop-down menu (in Options) but i see none.
<popey> livingdaylight: the fact that skype mentions pulse just means you manage the audio device with pulse mixer
<popey> which you get to from the sound menu
<popey> skype works for me in 11.04
<livingdaylight> popey, by default; is there a how-to to fix this here?
<popey> fix what?
<livingdaylight> that its not working
<popey> go to sound menu, choose mixer, choose input devices, make sure mic isnt muted
<popey> tap mic to see VU meter going up and down
<livingdaylight> mike is not muted as handset works with Teamspeak
<popey> just because it works in teamspeak doesn't mean its not muted in pulse
<popey> please go to the sound menu, choose mixer, choose input device, select the mic, make sure it isnt muted
<livingdaylight> is that right-click properties?
<popey> are you on 11.04?
<livingdaylight> yes
<popey> click the sound menu
<livingdaylight> with the unity bar
<livingdaylight> where is this sound menu?
<popey> top right of the screen, little speaker icon
<bigcalm> Email from a new contact within an existing client "Hi Iain, thank you for worm wellcome."
<livingdaylight> yes, and properties, yes?
<popey> livingdaylight: should be last icon in the menu
<bigcalm> I am easily amused
<popey> last item sorry
<screen-x> do not try and find the place to right click, instead realise the truth; there is no right click
<livingdaylight> popey, last item is properties
<popey> ok, good
<popey> click that, a windows appears?
<livingdaylight> yup,
<popey> and there's an input devices tab?
<livingdaylight> yup and mic responds
<popey> so you see the VU meter go up as you talk?
<livingdaylight> that's right
<popey> ok, great.
<livingdaylight> which is why I can speak on Teamspeak; but why not on skype?
<popey> how many input devices are listed in the bottom half
<popey> hang on.
<livingdaylight> Internal Audio Analogue Stereo
<popey> what type of mic is it?
<popey> USB or plugged into mic port?
<popey> is it a headset or what?
<livingdaylight> latter
<livingdaylight> y
<popey> which?
<livingdaylight> plugged into mic port
<popey> ok
<popey> do you have skype open?
<livingdaylight> y
<popey> can you open the options dialog in skype?
<livingdaylight> yes
<livingdaylight> popey, did another test call, and can hear my own voice now
<popey> and you have audio devices listed for ringing, and mic and speakers
<popey> great
<popey> so its working fine?
<livingdaylight> I swear it wasn't playing nice earlier though... darn
<livingdaylight> quality is still not great, but I'm audible compared to earliers pure fuzzzzz sound
<livingdaylight> run me through the ideal settings under options anyway, - please.
<popey> if its working you probably have ideal settings
<pwuertz> hi! is there a workaround for connecting to icq using empathy? it's not working out of the box at the moment due to a server certificate error..
<oimon> pwuertz: don't know if this is relevant? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/telepathy-haze/+bug/676060
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 676060 in Empathy "Cannot connect to ICQ (dup-of: 675903)" [Undecided,New]
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 675903 in pidgin (Ubuntu) "pidgin ICQ connection error" [Medium,Fix released]
<pwuertz> oimon, yes exactly
<pwuertz> i did it in pidgin, but empathy does not have the option to deactivate ssl
<oimon> there's a workaround in the bug desc
<davmor2> morning all
<pwuertz> mc-tool update: Protocol 'icq' does not have parameter 'use-ssl'
<pwuertz> doh
<pwuertz> this is the new bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/telepathy-haze/+bug/795932
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 795932 in telepathy-haze (Ubuntu) "ICQ doesn't work since June 10, 2011" [High,Confirmed]
<MooDoo> davmor2: ayup big xheese
<MooDoo> cheese
<davmor2> Moodoo and there was me thinking you were on about something interesting with your xheese
<MooDoo> davmor2: i'm not interesting at all, although i hope the weather holds off i want to go take photographs
<MooDoo> davmor2: slight conversation change there
<davmor2> MooDoo: now you become interesting proving your lack of interest to be a fallacy
<MooDoo> davmor2: pah!
<popey> wow.. icq
<popey> 11317622 :D
<MartijnVdS> 6968589 :)
<davmor2> popey: Why you wowing at icq?
<oimon> http://www.reghardware.com/2011/06/14/games_review_duke_nukem_forever/ LOL
<gord> icq... still exists? O_O
<oimon> in russia apparently
<gord> i thought we banished that to the 90's
<davmor2> gord: that was about the only thing
<dogmatic69> icq + myspace == http://tinyurl.com/6btjken
<popey> davmor2: retro
<davmor2> popey: never used it
<JGJones> oimon the game would have been awesome had it come out MUCH earlier...say...over 10 years ago :)
<JGJones> Think of a story - but don't be dirty minded ;-) http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/2011/06/write-the-story.html
<ali1234> "Duke Nukem Forever is the sum of all its flaws â a truly terrible game with almost no redeeming features." "40%" what? how can you pan it and then give it 40%?
<oimon> ali1234: you're right, from that rhetoric you would think it is 10%
<oimon> maybe 40% is the baseline
<ali1234> i guess it could be worse, it could be unplayably buggy too
<bigcalm> It's jerky on my machine :(
<bigcalm> But was fun to watch it being downloaded at 3.6MB/s
<oimon> bigcalm: you bought it?
<oimon> how much for?
<bigcalm> I did
<ali1234> sometimes i think video game reviewers grade on a scale the goes from "100% - a really good game" to "0% - being hit in the face with a spade"
<bigcalm> I very rarely read any reviews
<ali1234> which is to say that in order to get less than about 70% you have to make something that isn't even a computer game, and couldn't even be confused with one
<JGJones> Is there a difference between a review and a PR blurb? ;)
<JGJones> I guess most gamers just ask friends etc their thoughts - Minecraft being a good example. I was told it was awesome by coupla of friends so I got it based on that.
<ali1234> thinking about it, 40% is actually really really harsh, probably harsher than it deserves
<oimon> %ages are always relative to the other games of the current day
<bigcalm> Zero Punctuation is the only reviewer I listen to
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: extra credits are nice as well
<MartijnVdS> but they're not really reviews
<davmor2> popey: what did you buy with your massive CPW windfall?
<popey> davmor2: nothing yet
<popey> co-workers bought ipad covers
<davmor2> popey: is that so they can sit and dream of the thing that should be in it?
<popey> one of them has no ipad, so yes
<davmor2> haha
<krimzon2> lol
 * davmor2 prods czajkowski just to remind her that he's about :P
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Alan Bell] OpenERP Wordle - http://www.theopensourcerer.com/2011/06/14/openerp-wordle/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=openerp-wordle
 * czajkowski kicks davmor2 
<czajkowski> I'm here
<davmor2> czajkowski: hugs all round czajkowski is on top form :)
<popey> Jabber \o/
<MattJ> Jabber \o/
<davmor2> who said the J word?
<czajkowski> jibber jabber
<bigcalm> Wocky
<davmor2> czajkowski: the quote is "Quit your jibber jabber FooooooooooooL!" Mr.T
<MattJ> Jibber Jabber \o/
<bennie123> hey all
<MattJ> Hey
<bennie123> anyone know if it is possible to login to a VPN inside one browser only.
<bennie123> rather than system wide, via network tools
<BigRedS> I think you might be misunderstanding a 'vpn'. By its nature it happens down in the network
<BigRedS> what's the actual problem you're looking to solve?
 * davmor2 pulls faces behind czajkowski back
 * czajkowski pours a bucket of toffee over davmor2 that'll learn you
<brobostigon> teach you*
<andylockran> Azelphur: I'm doing 14.32 Mh/s as part of bitcoinpool.. reckon that makes economic sense?
 * DJones watches as czajkowski gets another bucket of toffee ready for brobostigon 
<MooDoo> czajkowski: that the same of that'll teach you?
 * MooDoo waits for the fist
 * davmor2 eats the toffee
<czajkowski> brobostigon: it's an expression!!
<davmor2> czajkowski: Face it you're wrong it's not the first time nor the last I'm sure :D
<brobostigon> czajkowski: oh, umm,ok.
<oimon> a colleague was telling me he has 3000 BTC
 * davmor2 readies gob for more teaching
<czajkowski> http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=That'll%20Learn%20You
<ali1234> andylockran: noooooooooooooooo
<brobostigon> czajkowski: ok, it interesting, that is one of those thigns inthe english language,where the wording has nothing, to dowith the actual meaning.
<MooDoo> sorry i didn't mean to start and arguement, i was only teasing czajkowski
<ali1234> andylockran: first, 14mh is rubbish and it's probably costing you more in electricity unless the machine uses less than 10W, second bitcoinpool is rubbish, avoid them
<brobostigon> MooDoo: i think its myfault, i think i misunderstood czajkowski's words.
<czajkowski> MooDoo: tis ok, it should be a given comments between u me and davmor2 should not be taken literally
<MooDoo> czajkowski: ok cool
<popey> brobostigon: I dont think you misunderstood, I just didn't think you have heard that particular colloquialism
<brobostigon> popey: yes, that makes more sense,
<popey> its just a deliberate mistype
<popey> like when people say "pass the suggestive biscuits"
<brobostigon> ok.
<czajkowski> brobostigon: it's not you, it's just the way I speak at times, I type the way I'd actually say it in person
<czajkowski> sorry for the confusion
<ali1234> i misread "person" for "prison" lol
<davmor2> see the trouble these upperty irish lasses bring to the channel, oi czajkowski that's you that is ;)
<brobostigon> czajkowski: ah, i see, no worries.
<davmor2> ali1234: a bit different
 * czajkowski peers at davmor2 
<czajkowski> I'm having a day of IRC woes, Email and now twitter
<czajkowski> so need a pint!
 * brobostigon gets one for himself and czajkowski 
<davmor2> here a pint of good stuff, otherwise known as water
<davmor2> czajkowski: here have a virtual hug instead
 * MooDoo wants a pint, and does owe czajkowski a pint.
<MooDoo> on my way
<MooDoo> lol
<czajkowski> :)
<MooDoo> czajkowski: one day i'll buy you a beer :D
<czajkowski> one day we'll even meet
<czajkowski> who knows
<czajkowski> :)
<MooDoo> czajkowski: oh i guarantee that, i'll make a big effort in 2012 :D
<andylockran> ali1234: who to join then :)
<ali1234> if you only have 14mh then don't bother
<andylockran> ali1234: what's required?
<ali1234> a recent ATI card
<andylockran> ok
<ali1234> 14mh will earn you 27p a day
<ali1234> before electricity
<andylockran> I have the computer on anyways :)
<andylockran> but yeah
<ali1234> funnily enough, it uses more electricity when you stress it out
<oimon> strange that :P
<ali1234> who would have thought?
<andylockran> wow.. reallly?
<andylockran> (come on.. give me a break :p)
<oimon> probably @ Â£1 per day
<ali1234> bit less than that
<ali1234> the difference between 5% CPU and 100% CPU is probably about 50p-75p a day
<exobuzz> i would think it is less than that
<ali1234> if you have loads of hard drives and ram it's going to use more but that's a constant if you leave it on anyway
<exobuzz> well depends on how much you are paying i guess but :)
<ali1234> 11p/kWh
<oimon> 450W pc would used 10kwh per day
<ali1234> yeah except that there's no such thing as a 450W PC
<andylockran> what's a good pool?
<ali1234> andylockran: eligius or btcguild
<oimon> System Wattage with GPU in FULL Stress = 503W
<oimon> http://www.guru3d.com/article/geforce-gtx-590-review/7
<ali1234> yeah well ... nvidia sucks then
<oimon> have you got a wattmeter connected?
<ali1234> i have a 5870 running maxed out and overclocked and it uses 250W for the whole machine
<ali1234> yes, i have a meter
<hamitron> I estimated mine uses 450W
<exobuzz> i have onboard gfx :)
<ali1234> when i quit the miner power usage drops to 120W
<hamitron> so sounds about right going by ali1234 's figure
<MooDoo> here you go czajkowski - http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_Ml_5DrPnbks/SxQRmEOeBjI/AAAAAAAADpU/dJs2y2wMkBM/s1600/GuinnessPint.JPG
<oimon> ATI 6970: System Wattage with GPU in FULL Stress =Â 340W
<hamitron> 1 day till difficulty increases \o/
<ali1234> oimon: i'm also running the most barebones motherboard ever
<ali1234> lots of fans though
<ali1234> but they only use a couple of watts each
 * hamitron just went to look at the power of his fans, then realised it is hard to read the label while they spin :/
<BigRedS> just poke your finger in and they'll stop
<ali1234> fan on my desk says 12V 0.43A
<hamitron> I'm not messing with it
<BigRedS> haha
<hamitron> it all works atm
<hamitron> ;/
<ali1234> PWM is gonna make them use less too
<ali1234> i would assume anyway
<ali1234> speaking of electronics
<ali1234> i spent the last two days testing all the digital logic simulators available for ubuntu
<ali1234> and they all suck
<ali1234> seriously
<hamitron> yep
<hamitron> :/
<ali1234> the only one that is even half way usable is incredibly buggy and crashes all the time
<ali1234> and it got deleted from the repos cos it uses kde3
<ali1234> they are all either impossible to understand or so buggy that they crash before you're done entering the schematic
 * exobuzz installed kubuntu in virtualbox. looking to switch back to kde
<hamitron> have you tried Altera Quartus II?
<davmor2> MooDoo: is that just before or after the End Of The World in 2012?
<ali1234> hamitron:  is that for their CPLD/FPGA?
<hamitron> yeh
<ali1234> i've not tried it
<ali1234> i need something with a simulator though
<MooDoo> davmor2: no i'm going to make a special effort, i mean i need a tour of canonical towers so i'll have to make a pub night of it with you too
<ali1234> i want to program a xilinx cpld eventually and it has a designer but not a simulator afaict
<hamitron> ali1234: I thought Quartus did simulate it tbh
<davmor2> MooDoo: HAHA!
<hamitron> but not tried it
<ali1234> i will dl it and have a look
<ali1234> oh joy 3.2GB
<hamitron> haha
<hamitron> damn
<MooDoo> davmor2: ok ok i'll settle for a pub night, i do owe czajkowski a pint
<ali1234> well, the xilinx one was 4.1GB
<hamitron> software has grown these days :/
<ali1234> modelsim is a 600mb addon
<ali1234> need to login............ :(
<hamitron> isn't there a good commandline only simulator available?
<ali1234> command line only?
<hamitron> using VHDL and Verilog
<andylockran> Ok.. I've got 478 MHash/s now
<ali1234> wow
<hamitron> on what?
<hamitron> :|
<andylockran> 8 core server with cpu mining
<ali1234> thing is, i don't want to learn VHDL
<hamitron> andylockran: what cpu?
<hamitron> :-o
 * popey looks at the 150-odd 12-core boxen here
<davmor2> hamitron: dosbox :D
<ali1234> no CPU can get 478mh not even if it has 8 cores
<ali1234> 47.8mh is a stretch for cpuminer
<hamitron> I get 1.6mh/s
<hamitron> :/
<ali1234> quad core 3.2ghz phenom gets about 12
 * BigRedS ponders capitalisation pedantry :)
<andylockran> yes
<andylockran> I am a retard :)
<andylockran> misreading output
<andylockran> maybe this bitcoin stuff isn't for me :)
<andylockran> should just buy Â£100 worth and sell them in a bit.
<andylockran> rather than try generating them
<BigRedS> as long as they keep going upwards in value
<BigRedS> there's some horrific growth ATM, surely they're in for a crash in value?
<hamitron> andylockran: just wanna point out they crashed from $34 to $14 inside 48 hours 4 days ago
<andylockran> BigRedS: Only if there's polibical change.
<hamitron> ;)
<BigRedS> polibical?
<BigRedS> political?
<BigRedS> either way, why? Surely all it takes is lots of people wanting to sell?
<BigRedS> as per any other currency
<hamitron> yep
<BigRedS> or any other thing
<hamitron> or government restrictions
<hamitron> if there is so much as a sniff of restrictions been put on it, everyone will want to sell, and the price will crash
<BigRedS> oh yeah
<oimon> $34 per BTC?
<hamitron> yep
<popey> it's about 20USD now
<oimon> hmm..so 3000 BTC would be worth selling
<hamitron> it was maybe a little higher at one point
<oimon> i'm sure only speculators and jounralists are buying though
 * hamitron bought 95 BTC on Saturday
<hamitron> ;)
<hamitron> and sold on Sunday
<oimon> mug :P
<hamitron> haha
<hamitron> I paid 17.50 and got 22.00
<oimon> gambling's a mugs game
<hamitron> I was intending to keep them longer, then realised I couldn't handle the "excitement"
<hamitron> ;)
<hamitron> never again, just mining them now and selling
<oimon> hmm software-center doesn't like my correct password
<hamitron> :/
<popey> hamitron: how did you buy them? an exchange?
<hamitron> yeh
<popey> which one out of interest?
<hamitron> Mt. Gox
<popey> I need to get rid of my BTC some time
<hamitron> they charge 0.65% for converting, then 2% to withdraw in euro
<hamitron> iirc
<popey> I'll probably hold on a while
<oimon> how many do u have?
<popey> 52
<hamitron> difficulty increases to 1,000,000 at a guess, tomorrow
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> that is going to start slowing down miners, even with decent hardware
<popey> i think they cost me about 70 quid total
<popey> yeah
<oimon> in leccy costs?
<popey> that and I bought some ages ago
 * hamitron will get less than 1 BTC per day :(
<czajkowski> what is BTC?
<popey> Bitcoin
<oimon> speculation in imaginary concept for profit at the expense of latecomers
<oimon> :D
<czajkowski> ahh ok
<czajkowski> thanks
<hamitron> I'm hoping to the profit stays there, till my new comp is bought
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> all i ask ;/
<andylockran> here's hoping
<peejay1977> Hey all, dumb question, is Unity going to made compulsory in future releases and with the option of the Ubuntu Classic removed? Also I have installed a new version of a program but it runs from a different location, I have changed the path under the Main Menu app but it hasn't affected the Unity menu, how do I change this as I keep running the old version?
<BigRedS> yeah, 11.10 wont have the option of a gnome 2 log on
<ali1234> heh, main menu still hasn't been fixed then?
<BigRedS> that doesn't soudn necessarily broken
<BigRedS> just a non-obvious way of changing the path
<ali1234> it isn't broken
<ali1234> it's by design
<ali1234> the "main menu" tool doesn't apply to unity
<BigRedS> ohhh
<ali1234> unity just does whatever it wants and there is no way to configure it
<ali1234> but main menu is still installed by default for some reason, even though it does nothing except confuse people
<gord> its installed for the classic desktop
<ali1234> if you use the dash in exactly the way it is intended to be used you will hit this bug
<ali1234> that is, you want to edit the menus, so you type "menu" in the dash, and open the first thing that comes up
<ali1234> the bug is that the dash should pop up a message that says "sorry, you can't edit the menus on ubuntu any more"
<ali1234> instead of showing the menu editor from gnome 2
<jacobw> â kde :)
<BigRedS> hah
<BigRedS> Is there a way to have twitter not replace my url with a 'shortened' one?
<AlanBell> evening all
 * AlanBell sits down with cold beer
<BigRedS> Morning!
 * BigRedS is envious
<jacobw> we seem to have a salutation-off-by-one error :p
<BigRedS> haha
<BigRedS> I standardised on 'morning' a while a go
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: yeah, we did that IRL with a few friends as well
<AlanBell> anyone in Leicester?
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: confuses people to no end :)
<BigRedS> MartijnVdS: i've been doing it long enough that people're now confused when I say 'afternoon' :)
<jacobw> AlanBell: they've perished at the hands of zombie hoard
<BigRedS> You hoard zombies?
<MartijnVdS> hoary zombies?
<jacobw> turns out the city council didn't have any plans to deal with zombies :p
<jacobw> of i course zombies, don't you?
<AlanBell> jacobw: yeah, they need to improve their planning
<AlanBell> I for one welcome our new zombie overlords
<MartijnVdS> Bah, if you see zombies, just kill their parents
<MartijnVdS> init should take care of the rest.
<BigRedS> haha
<MartijnVdS> (unless they're blocking on a read or something)
<BigRedS> I did enjoy being called up while at home over christmas and getting to say just-within-earshot of a bunch of family "well, are all the children dead?.. kill them, then. Check the parents are dead, too. And make sure they're actually dead"
<davmor2> czajkowski: tell filace to annoy you from me too :D
<MartijnVdS> *awkward looks all around*
<BigRedS> hah, yeah. I genuinely wasn't aware they could hear, which probably made it a bit worse...
<jacobw> hehe
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: did you also make stabbing movements with your free hand while saying it?
<BigRedS> haha! If only!
<jacobw> http://www.bbc.co.uk/podcasts/series/timc
<jacobw> 100% awesome
<BigRedS> Ah. I'm after some new podcasts
 * hamitron has never used a podcast
<jacobw> you should also check out radiolab.org in that case BigRedS
<BigRedS> jacobw: oooh, cheers!
<jacobw> you too hamitron, especially you *brow beats*
<BigRedS> hamitron: I didn't get them at all until I realised they're just the offspring of an mp3 and an rss generator
<hamitron> the name puts me off
<hamitron> ;)
<hamitron> and since I've done without so long because of that, just never missed what I've never used
<hamitron> but I will
<hamitron> :D
<jacobw> that's almost luddite
<BigRedS> hamitron: yeah, that's almost exactly what I did
<BigRedS> I've just found that I prefer spoken word on long rides to music
<BigRedS> but I ride at a rate greater than the uupc is generated
<hamitron> I read more :/
<dutchie> hamitron: i suspect that is not advised while driving
<hamitron> read tech stuff, and listen to streaming radio
<hamitron> :D
<BigRedS> Ah, it's dangerous to do that on the bike :)
<hamitron> yeh, and my bike has no stereo
<hamitron> :/
<BigRedS> Ah, I have an ipod
<hamitron> on a bike?
<jacobw> i've listened to podcasts whilst driving, its not different to listening to the radio
<BigRedS> motorbike, yeah
<BigRedS> well, and bicycle. But in that case it's music
<hamitron> I sometimes have my phone giving directions, about it
<BigRedS> Oh! Half of R4 is available in podcasted form!
<BigRedS> I was just pondering bodging something together with get-iplayer
<jacobw> this is true
<jacobw> i go through podcasts too fast
<hamitron> so why not just use mp3?
<BigRedS> it is mp3
<BigRedS> the podcast bit is just convenience
<BigRedS> having an rss feed telling you when new ones are available, and giving you(r device) a link through which to get it
<hamitron> my devices only support mp3
<hamitron> haha
<dutchie> and including a nice episode description
<hamitron> I can take the mp3 out?
<BigRedS> well, it might be ogg or whatever, too. But it's just an audio file, and an rss feed saying where it is
<BigRedS> yeah
<BigRedS> you could parse the rss feed yourself and do what you like with the .mp3 or .ogg or whatever
<jacobw> well all you 'get' is the audio file
<hamitron> parsing some rss feed is "convenient"? ;/
<hamitron> well, will give it a go
<BigRedS> hamitron: no. pointing rhythmbox at an rss feed is convenient
<BigRedS> moreso than remembering when there's a new one and going and downloading it and listening to it
<BigRedS> well, arguably. I find it more convenient :)
<jacobw> it is convient, there's no argument about it.
<czajkowski> davmor2: eh no he needs no encouragement
<BigRedS> I'm arguing with rhythmbox as I type :)
 * davmor2 cheers for filace picking on czajkowski well just cause really
<czajkowski> >:(
<czajkowski> oi
<davmor2> czajkowski: you love it or he wouldn't do it :P
<czajkowski> eh no he wont do it again :)
<czajkowski> well he will but I'll glare some more
<davmor2> BigRedS: Agreed aggregation of podcasts is far easier
<BigRedS> ah yeah, that'd work
<BigRedS> I must stop writing scripts *before* checking there's not already a website doing it
<jacobw> hehe
<davmor2> BigRedS: Depends on if your script does it better
<BigRedS> It probably wont :)
<BigRedS> they rarely do...
<jacobw> its more fun that way :p
<BigRedS> but, still, it'd be better to start with an idea of what I dislike beforehand
<jacobw> i'm eating a kebab with a knife and fork
<jacobw> i think i might be 'posh' :s
<BigRedS> haha
<BigRedS> I think the kebab precludes that :)
<jacobw> good point
<MartijnVdS> However, if your monocle falls into the kebab that's an exception ;)
<jacobw> lol
<MartijnVdS> "Ooh I got kebab sauce all over my waistcoat"
<brobostigon> lol
<daubers> Evening
<jacobw> o/ daubers
 * AlanBell points to a gathering of sorts in #ubuntu-gaming
<BigRedS> zombies again?
<MartijnVdS> BRAAAINS
<jacobw> all we wanna do is eat your brains
<jacobw> ++jonathoncoulton
<MartijnVdS> jacobw: Vegetarian zombies - GRAAAINS
<jacobw> hehe
<jane__> #processing
<jacobw> jane__: /join #processing
<livingdaylight> Hi, do lots of people install Ubuntu on their macbooks or prefer to stick to apple's osx?
<Azelphur> does anyone know if USB 2 devices can plug into USB 3 sockets?
<JGJones> livingdaylight, I've got Ubuntu on a Macbook.
<livingdaylight> Azelphur, http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100608025141AAs6Psj
<livingdaylight> JGJones, interesting
<Azelphur> livingdaylight: not what I asked, but still interesting
<JGJones> livingdaylight, it was the first thing I did with it when I got it too.
<livingdaylight> JGJones, I'm thinking of getting a core2duo as their little cheaper now just for the hardware and putting Ubuntu on it; or if hd is big enough dual-booting?
<JGJones> The macbook I got is a core duo.
<livingdaylight> Azelphur, sorry, I mmisunderstood then
<Azelphur> :p
<JGJones> A tad old - and HDD is small, just a 60GB so it's just Ubuntu on it.
<Azelphur> usb 2 devices into usb 3 sockets, not usb 3 devices in usb 2 sockets
<livingdaylight> the core duos are slower than the core2duo, yes? but still run 11.04 fine?
<livingdaylight> yes
<JGJones> livingdaylight, the cpu's are slower, but you don't notice it day to day anyway.
<JGJones> Unity is supririsingly not that demanding on hardware - I have it running on a Celeron laptop with about 700Mb and it's fine.
<livingdaylight> I've had rotten luck with laptops lately. Bought an HP dm4 on ebay and it arrived broken
<JGJones> Intel graphics for both so it's Unity with compiz rather than Unity-2D
<JGJones> livingdaylight, ha...I was getting ready to sell my Sony VAIO SZ71 laptop - it's a decent laptop, runs Ubuntu very well.
<livingdaylight> so, thinking of getting some old-ish mac hardware. But even the old macs are Â£400+ ! THey sure hold their value
<JGJones> Set it up on ebay...and then checked laptop to check on size of HDD...and I got a SMART message telling me it's about to die.
<JGJones> bugger.
<JGJones> bloody great timing.
<livingdaylight> JGJones, what do you want for it? :p
<livingdaylight> I@ve gone off Sony's big time though
<JGJones> livingdaylight, it's a Sony VAIO SZ71 with 2GB, about to die 120GB HDD, dual graphics (Intel and nvidia) and core2duo...think the speed is 2.2GHz.
<livingdaylight> screen size?
<JGJones> Runs Ubuntu perfectly fine, everything out of box - however do need PPA for webcam driver.
<JGJones> it's a 12" 1280x800 screen.
<JGJones> it does comes with a OEM licence for Windows Vista if you fancy that (no CD's)
<livingdaylight> I orderd their new c series 14" and after 2 weeks it still hadn't arrived! So, refunded it
<livingdaylight> how much?
<JGJones> livingdaylight, if you're interested let me know and I can give you the full specification
<JGJones> livingdaylight, I have no idea what the value of the laptop is - I was going to look on ebay for similar laptops to get idea of price! :)
<livingdaylight> ok
<livingdaylight> if its a bargain, I could be interested
<livingdaylight> I'll have a look at what they look like
<livingdaylight> http://goo.gl/QtGyt something like that?
<JGJones> Not quite...mine does have the black lid cover, but with the aluminum palm rest - I'll send photos.
<brobostigon> good night everyone, sleep well.
<jacobw> night brobostigon
<filo1234> Hi guys
<jacobw> hi
 * jacobw â bed
<filo1234> someone use trickle for bandwidth? and work fine with firefox downloads? I tried with trickle -d 100KB wget something and work but with firefox it doesn't, do you have some clue?
<filo1234> or point me to another wat or tool for band limit
<filo1234> way*
<michelle_> Hi, anyone know a channel for Wine support please?
<Azelphur> michelle_: #winehq
<michelle_> Many thanks!
#ubuntu-uk 2011-06-15
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Standard Ubuntu Gaming Platform: Sink Or Swim? - http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/06/14/standard-ubuntu-gaming-platform-sink-or-swim/
<MattJ> I...
<MattJ> ...don't know what on earth is going on with my system
<MattJ> I'm trying to attach a file to an email in Gmail, and every time I try, it attaches the wrong file (another random file from my home directory)
<MattJ> I assumed it was Epiphany's fault (though no idea why it just started), until I found it happened in Chrome too
<MattJ> If it happens in Firefox as well I don't know what I'll do :)
<MattJ> It must be a GTK bug
<MattJ> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gtk+2.0/+bug/558674
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 558674 in GTK+ "Open file dialog malfunctions in lucid" [Medium,Fix released]
<MattJ> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gtk+2.0/+bug/558674/comments/30
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 558674 in GTK+ "Open file dialog malfunctions in lucid" [Medium,Fix released]
<MattJ> Ouch, that's painful
<alexcockell> Morning..
<alexcockell> Can't sleep..
<Azelphur> howdy :P
<alexcockell> Funny how it goes midweek -
 * alexcockell got brew, so should be ok..
<alexcockell> Hmm - do I spin up a DVD - or browse?
<alexcockell> Good thing I've got the whole week working from home while this abscess finishes clearing..
<Azelphur> \o/
 * alexcockell yawns
<alexcockell> Morning Ging..
<alexcockell> Another one who can't sleep?
<Azelphur> I just usually don't sleep at this time, I'm a night lurker
<alexcockell> Ahhh... I get you..
 * alexcockell looking at some places I used to buy nukable meals from
<Azelphur> :P
<alexcockell> places like http://www.jollygourmand.co.uk
<Azelphur> hehe
<exobuzz> did anyone watch Terry Pratchett, Choosing To Die ?
<exobuzz> tough watch that. but an important subject to cover
<exobuzz> upsetting though..
<exobuzz> sorry bit off topic that but
<AlanBell> morning all
<MartijnVdS> \o AlanBell
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Metal Free Software Song 2: This Time Its Personal - http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/06/15/metal-free-software-song-2-this-time-its-personal/
<niolite> hey guys!!
<niolite> need some help with my vps server running on unbuntu!
<niolite> *ubuntu i mean
<BigRedS> nixtux: what's the actual question you have?
<BigRedS> Ah. niolite's left
<JGJones> maybe that's the problem..it just died, taking him with it ;-)
<BigRedS> haha
<JGJones> Hmm - EKOPath 4 compiler is now opensource...apparently it's much much faster than GCC - does that mean in future we're going to see Ubuntu go even faster? (benchmark-wise, it is about the same as Windows, except for graphics)
<JGJones> assuming they use EXOPath 4
<JGJones> I can guess Gentoo would be the first to do so :)
<ali1234> good luck getting all the packages in a typical distro to compile with anything but gcc
<ali1234> if you want to see ubuntu go really fast just buy more ram
<diplo> Any of you guys do web development ?
<bigcalm> Morning peeps
<bigcalm> diplo: I do
<diplo> Hiya bigcalm
<diplo> I use Codeigniter framework, tried creating my first rss feed
<diplo> Can see the feed in the source
<diplo> but can't get it to display on the page
<bigcalm> I've not used codeigniter
<diplo> Any thoughts on why.. does RSS *need* a style sheet by default ?
<bigcalm> A RSS feed is just an XML file
<diplo> yep
<bigcalm> It shouldn't have any styles
<diplo> My code looks the same as BBC's but doesn't display say in firefox to subscribe
<bigcalm> Do you have a live URL I can look at?
<diplo> But BBC's does, I just can't think what else to look at :/
<diplo> Local :(
<bigcalm> Ok, are you passing the correct Content-type into header()?
<diplo> Only thing that displays is the title
<bigcalm> text/xml
<diplo> yeah, tried it two different ways from tutorials on the web
<diplo> rss+xml
<diplo> I'm passing
<diplo> header("Content-Type: application/rss+xml")
<bigcalm> Load the feed in firefox and see what firebug says about the document
<diplo> Do you know what, I haven't even looked at Firebugs output
<diplo> Good call!
<diplo> :)
 * diplo hugs bigcalm 
<diplo> I use Firebug everyday yet i missed that
<diplo> Still not sure what the part I've just removed does ( first time XML  person ) but going to look into it today
<bigcalm> Good show :)
<diplo> To do with the use of CDATA
<diplo> Going to work out what that is now :)
<MartijnVdS> CDATA = character data
<MartijnVdS> <foo>this could be cdata</foo>
<MartijnVdS> (it's cdata if foo is defined as containing cdata, of if you use <![CDATA[ CDATA HERE ]]>  )
<MartijnVdS> diplo: http://www.w3schools.com/xml/xml_cdata.asp
<diplo> On that page now funnily enough ta
<diplo> aha, think the code was incorrect on tutorial
<diplo> All working, thanks all!
<MooDoo> hello all
<davmor2> morning all
 * davmor2 prods czajkowski cause she need to be wide awake
 * MooDoo prods davmor2 cause he's prodding czajkowski and i need someone to prod
<davmor2> MooDoo: Morning me owld mukka
<MooDoo> davmor2: hi mate :)
<bigcalm> ARGH!
<bigcalm> Opened a tab and forgotten what I was going to do with it
<DJones> Morning all
<wintellect> Mornin all
<oimon> considering eating this innocent smoothie with a spoon..rather thick
<hoover> mornin all
<MooDoo> morning
<bigcalm> Hi hoovie
<diplo> bigcalm, one last issue if you have any idea
<diplo> BST does not seem to be supported ( using date('T') )
<diplo> by rss
<diplo> My google foo isn't fielding results atm, any thoughts apart from hard coding
<diplo> ?
<diplo> Works fine if i hardcode GMT in there
<davmor2> bigcalm: I can help you there you were going to use it to do something :)  hope that helped
<bigcalm> davmor2: what would I do without you?
<bigcalm> diplo: um. Have you set a local time?
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<diplo> ah, so in the php.ini ?
<bigcalm> You can do it in there. You can also do it in .htaccess or in the PHP itself
<bigcalm> I personally try not to alter php.ini
<daubers> Morning
<davmor2> bigcalm: I've know idea carry on living maybe?
<bigcalm> One would hope
<MartijnVdS> only one way to find out.. *sharpens knife*
<daubers> Ever get the feeling you've walked into the wrong conversation?
<MartijnVdS> daubers: hmm? :)
<oimon> they are about to cut a cake :)
<oimon> a wednesday cake
<bigcalm> CAKE!
<daubers> cake?
<oimon> mmm bought some custard tarts today
 * daubers wants cake, but isn't allowed it :(
<oimon> i need to start thinking about rooting my htx desire now that gbread isn't coming
<MartijnVdS> daubers: The computer wants you to complete an obstacle course first?
<bigcalm> oimon: http://www.cyanogenmod.com/
<oimon> however i also like the sense ui
 * MartijnVdS loves his N1
<oimon> i find stock android ugly
<daubers> MartijnVdS: That would be better, but it's more that I tried to fit in my tux I bought at Uni the other month and there where..... humorous consequences
<oimon> i hear there's sense mods too
<popey> MooDoo: you live in nottingham don't you?
<popey> Morning all btw
<MartijnVdS> howdy popey
<daubers> o/ popey
<bigcalm> Hi popey
<MooDoo> popey: yeah
<popey> sort your local LUG out!
<popey> http://mailman.lug.org.uk/pipermail/nottingham/2011-June/014261.html
<oimon> anyone here running a cyanogen mod?
<popey> Welcome to the past, welcome to Nottingham!
<oimon> bigcalm: ?
<MooDoo> oimon: not till tonight
<oimon> lol
<MooDoo> popey: sigh
<popey> as another friend pointed out, that thread epitomises whats wrong with LUGs
<popey> http://mailman.lug.org.uk/pipermail/nottingham/2011-June/thread.html#14269  <- more chat about renaming the LUG than anything else
<MooDoo> oimon: now that gingerbread isn't being release for my phone, i'm going to try it tonight
<oimon> i'll be back tomorrow to ask how it went :)
<bigcalm> oimon: one of the best android mods
<oimon> do you have a desire?
<bigcalm> Nope, n1
<bigcalm> I loves my n1
<MartijnVdS> N1 \o/
<popey> also amusingly http://mailman.lug.org.uk/pipermail/nottingham/2011-June/014266.html suggests that we (lug.org.uk) should register glug.org.uk for "GNU/Linux User Group"
<popey> Pssst (I did that about 2 years ago)
<oimon> i wonder if i'm getting it right about Sense
<MartijnVdS> though the NS looks nice (my N1 is starting to become a bit rebooty)
<oimon> or if the cyanogen gives me what i'm using anyway
<oimon> i want a rock solid mod, for sure
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: same here. I'm hoping a new release will fix some issues
<MooDoo> popey: they are a bunch of old crankys set in their ways ;)
<davmor2> popey: I thought that was for Gloucester Lug?
<bigcalm> oimon: about as rock solid as you're going to get
<popey> nope
<popey> I registered http://glug.org.uk/
<davmor2> popey: Teasing :D
<popey> nobody else had it
<popey> neuro wanted it for Glasgae iirc
<oimon> GLUG that's the one that involves drinking right?
<MooDoo> oimon: desire too right?
<oimon> yes
<MooDoo> oimon: sigh eh :)
<oimon> it's terrible PR for them
<MooDoo> definately especially as gingerbread works fine on it
<oimon> they should make it work
<oimon> check out their fb wall and it's full of fail
<oimon> https://www.facebook.com/htcuk?sk=wall
<MooDoo> oimon: it does work already,they are just talking #FAIL
 * daubers gets his galaxy S 2 next month \o/
<MooDoo> daubers: :p
<daubers> \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/
<oimon> i need a faster SD card too
<oimon> especially if i use data to sd
<AlanBell> morning from ExCeL
<BigRedS> hm. the noc is looking very canonical today
<MooDoo> AlanBell: morning :D
<czajkowski> meh
 * MooDoo gives czajkowski a big hug :D
<AlanBell> daubers: I amtethering right now with my S2
<AlanBell> czajkowski: what is meh?
<czajkowski> bugs
<daubers> AlanBell: Morning! Also, I've potentially got (1 or 2) HD cameras that are not tape driven for oggcampe
<bigcalm> IMAP is wonderful ;)
<bigcalm> Just keep it away from Evolution
<AlanBell> oh nice daubers
<daubers> They'll also accept audio in. So we could get them a feed from somewher
<daubers> e
<bigcalm> If I were to have a nap under my desk, would anybody notice?
<daubers> bigcalm: Depends on where your desk is located
<MooDoo> daubers: you could stream it using bambuser ;)
<bigcalm> daubers: in my house ;)
<daubers> MooDoo: Might have some slight sync issues :p
<bigcalm> I started the day with coffee when I usually have tea. I wonder if that's made the difference?
<BigRedS> surely it'd go the other way?
<daubers> MooDoo: However, depending on the venues internet connectivity, it might be possible to stream the video out using something
<MooDoo> daubers: sounds good, it would be nice to see it live-ish especially for people like me that can't make it
<daubers> MooDoo: Would really, really depend on their bandwidth though
<MooDoo> daubers: yeah
<daubers> (I suspect it's not good)
<BigRedS> nah, 3G bonding of all participants, we'll be fine
<daubers> I  have a funny feeling that to get the videos uploaded there may be a sneakernet system to AlanBells house
<oimon> anyone recommend a good but inexpensive microSD card for my htc?
 * BigRedS packs some empty pringles cans
<daubers> Heh :)
<daubers> I hate documentation
<daubers> Considering I always get interrupted when I'm writing it, I'm taking that as a sign the universe doesn't want me to write it
<BigRedS> w
<oimon> quick question re: android custom roms - if i want to revert to the htc rom after loading the cyanogen one is it possible?
<MooDoo> oimon: i'll tell you tomorrow pmsl
<brobostigon> oimon: yes, it is, do a nandroid backup inbetween, so you canalways wipe, and restore fromthe backup.
<oimon> brobostigon: great cheers, will look into that.
<brobostigon> oimon: :)
<brobostigon> oimon: idoit everytime, incase i mess up.
<oimon> i'm on holiday soon so i will try to wait till afterwards to do the upgrade
<oimon> nandroid needs root?
<brobostigon> oimon: no, it partof the new recovery youwill need.
<MooDoo> oimon: yes and so does cygnamonthingy
<MooDoo> sorry i thought it did
<brobostigon> MooDoo: its ppart of the phones recovery software,
<MooDoo> brobostigon: ah! :0
<MooDoo> :)
<brobostigon> http://wiki.cyanogenmod.com/index.php?title=Howto:_Using_the_Recovery
<JGJones> oimon, You can use LauncherPro. That along with Cyanogen does quite a lot, probably more than Sense can do.
<brobostigon> amon_ra and clockworkmod are twotypes.
<oimon> guys at this rate i will be tempted to slap cyanogen by the end of the day :S
<JGJones> oimon - like bigcalm I've got a N1. Got Cyanogen on mine, and it's awesome.
 * MooDoo will install it on his desire this very evening 
<brobostigon> oimon: one thing, do you research properly, about the process. lets justsay, ididnt, and almost regreetted it.
<oimon> oh?
<brobostigon> oimon: i almost bricked myphone.
<JGJones> I think Gingerbread isn't going on Desire due to lack of memory does make sense actually - it's not the speed, the phone can run it fine, but the available space on a Desire, like the N1 is quite small.
<JGJones> And Gingerbread eat into that, leaving very little space left over even with App2SD.
<JGJones> I use Cyanogen 7 (which is GB) and I use SD-EXT just to make room for app installation.
<brobostigon> JGJones: the version of AOSP of gingerbread i have on myhtc dream right now, is almost as perfect as cm6/2.2.1
<oimon> which SD ards do u use?
<JGJones> oimon, I use a Transmedia class 10 SD card btw. - get a fast SD card
<brobostigon> oimon: a 2gb microsd.
<oimon> brobostigon: class?
<JGJones> oimon, mine is 8GB
<brobostigon> oimon: not a clue.
<JGJones> brobostigon, if it came with the phone, it'll probably be class 4.
<oimon> i think it makes a big difference. mine is a class 2 that came with the phone and HD video doesn't work properly - jitters
<oimon> when recording
<brobostigon> JGJones: no, i added it seperatly.
<JGJones> Oimon I can recommend transmedia class 10 SD - it's fast. I don't notice any difference speed-wise when I'm using SD-EXT
<JGJones> even my Dalvik cache is on SD.
<brobostigon> interesting.
<oimon> found a kingston class 10 pretty cheap, think i will go with that
<oimon> JGJones: do you mean transcend rather than transmedia?
<JGJones> hmm oh yeah you might be right.
<JGJones> looking
<JGJones> yeah it is
<d3ngar> Hi there
<d3ngar> I was wondering how USB devices get their device ID?
<d3ngar> Is there a particular order?
<popey> burned in at manufacture
<X3N_> d3ngar: look up HAL
<popey> Bus 002 Device 002: ID 067b:2303 Prolific Technology, Inc. PL2303 Serial Port
<popey> if you're talking about  067b:2303
<AlanBell> daubers: yeah, my house and popey's, he has more upstream I think
<d3ngar> No, sorry... Should be more precise: how dows a device become /dev/sdb or /dev/sdc
<d3ngar> I have two external disc
<popey> first come first served usually
<popey> order of detection
<popey> a->z
<d3ngar> /dev/sdb became /dev/sdc
<popey> if sdb is in use it will use sdc
<d3ngar> After reboot and messed up some of the mount points in fstab
<d3ngar> True, that makes sense
<popey> thats why fstab uses UUID now
<popey> not device names
<d3ngar> i see
<popey> UUID=1bfde0d5-1f55-436b-8271-96cc2c05a96f /               ext4    errors=remount-ro 0       1
<popey> like that
<d3ngar> alright, so I should probably change that
<oimon> JGJones: just got myself a transcend class 10 ..you can collect your commission now :)
<d3ngar> How do I get the UUID?
<X3N_> http://people.redhat.com/davidz/hal-spec/hal-spec.html#fdi-policy
<X3N_> http://www.michaelwood.me.uk/wordpress/2008/11/18/changing-a-hal-media-mount-point/
<JGJones> oimon, next - get ready to install Cyanogen ;-)
<oimon> gonna wait for the card to arrive first :D
<JGJones> I can recommend LauncherPro Plus - it have some of the same widgets you get in Sense I think (Never used Sense so can't be sure)
<JGJones> but it's fast.
<oimon> but ...it ....costs.....money :o)
 * oimon buys hardware willy nilly but software is a stumlbing block :)
<hoover> JGJones: how about separate profiles? I only found those in sense so far
<hoover> (htc wildfire here)
<BigRedS> LauncherPro is free
<BigRedS> it just lets you try to do things only plus will do, and then asks if you'd like to buy it to do whatever it is
<hoover> I've tried launcherpro a while ago
<JGJones> hoover, separate profiles? Separate user accounts etc?
<hoover> no, just the usual "vibrate", "normal", "meeting" and so on
<BigRedS> there was an app I used to use that'd do brilliant profile changes
<BigRedS> You could set it to change most of the alerts and volumes based on time, presence of Wifi, presence of 3g, location
<BigRedS> all sorts. It was amazing. But I've not needed it for a couple of years so I've no idea whether it still exists
<BigRedS> It didn't do ambient noise, though, which irked me
<JGJones> hoover, ah those...I tend to use Tasker myself
<JGJones> hoover, my phone is permenantly on silent anyway.
<Myrtti> *sigh*
<oimon> hmm..you have to root your phone to install nandroid backup, but rooting deletes all data...paradox here
<bigcalm> Myrtti: *hugs*
<BigRedS> oimon: you always root your phone before using it, surely?
<oimon> ummm
<oimon> no need
<Myrtti> ive not rooted mine :-)
<BigRedS> Oh
<BigRedS> freaks :)
<Myrtti> nexus one â¥
<BigRedS> you can get individual backup things, what're you wanting to backup in particular?
<oimon> BigRedS: backup the whole shebang, pre-custom rom install
<oimon> although i heard that unrevoked will not wipe your data
<BigRedS> well, your contacts will be on Google, there's certainly apps for SMSs and for apps
<BigRedS> I'd not trust the idea of a rom install that doesn't wipe data :) Upgrades frequently don't, but I've not come across a rom *install* that doesn't
<BigRedS> though I've not particularly looked, either...
<oimon> not a rom install, just rooting it in advance of a rom install
<BigRedS> ohhh. rooting shouldn't kill anything IME
<BigRedS> though I've only done that three times, and I imagine there's many many more ways and devices than that of doing it
<oimon> hmm prob not the best time for me to research this..i think i'll do the proper research and pick a saturday to do it :)
<BigRedS> haha, yeah. You've probably come across it already, but xda-developers is a goldmine for this sort of info
<BigRedS> Hm. I have a bunch of colour themes for my terminal, and I'd like to be able to periodically change which one I'm using but I can't see a way of saying "make this one default". Is there a way?
<oimon> BigRedS: gnome-terminal?
<JGJones> BigRedS, Gnome Terminal?
<BigRedS> oimon JGJones er, Terminator but it appears to use g-t
<JGJones> If so - Edit > Profiles in Gnome Terminal will do it.
<BigRedS> aha!
<BigRedS> ah, terminator doesn't use that :/
<BigRedS> To the launchpad! :)
<JGJones> sigh...anyone have a clue on how to speed up MX Records in validation for Google Apps?
<JGJones> It've been over 30 hours now while I wait for them to "verify" it.
<bigcalm> Add the additional DNS TXT record
<JGJones> Already done that step, the 2nd step is to verify the MX records.
<JGJones> and that part is taking a silly amount of time.
<BigRedS> run your own mx and dns servers? :)
<JGJones> BigRedS, I would, but not for me :)
<BigRedS> run someone else's mx and ns then :)
<JGJones> Hmm googling it, and someone mentioned they waited 2 weeks...eek
<JGJones> look like I might need to wait 48 hours and it've not quite been that long.
<oimon> anyone know who i can complain to about Virgin sending me mail to "the occupier...1 oimon road, oimonsley"
<oimon> i have tried asking virgin but no success
<BigRedS> I'd probably ask ofcom :)
<BigRedS> There's probably a more sensible route for junk mail, but I like complaining to ofcom
<DJones> I wonder whether danfish has lost a laptop? http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/06/15/eight_million_health_records/
<oimon> to talk to our team press 0: "oops that's not recognised"
<BigRedS> oimon: really?
<bigcalm> Drinking mugs of real coffee as if they were tea - not good
<JGJones> When you use Totem to watch a movie and download subtitles with it - where does this subtitle file goes? in /tmp or elsewhere?
<gord> chances are it doesn't go anywhere
<oimon> on the phone to virgin..asking to get put on the "do not contact" list
<oimon> willing to wait all day :)
<bigcalm> Had a 6" sub yesterday and then got an email saying I'd just won a 6" sub. Do I dare have another one today?
<dogmatic69> popey: you think that 25k bitcoin heist is legit?
<oimon> allegedly virgin told me that i won't receive any more mail
<oimon> although they asked for my name in the process
<oimon> i feel like i've been stiched up
<JGJones> Where do I put python scripts for nautlius to use?
<MooDoo> bigcalm: 6 inch subs are rubbish, you should start with a foot long, they are better :D
<JGJones> is it in ~/.nautlius ?
<bigcalm> MooDoo: over-eating is rubbish. It takes a lot of will power not to get the foot long
<MooDoo> bigcalm: i won't say that sometimes i normally have 2 :S
<oimon> whaa?
<bigcalm> You have 2 foot long subs for lunch
<bigcalm> ?
<oimon> Â£Â£
<MooDoo> bigcalm: i've been known too on occasion, i'm tall so got hollow legs lol
 * oimon discovers why he is underweight
<bigcalm> Heh
<MooDoo> oimon: i'm clinically obese, well occording to the dr's lol
<oimon> everybody else has been eating behind his back
<oimon> just like when people pretend not to revise for exams
<DJones> greggs over the road from my office do foot long subs for between Â£1.95 and Â£2.90
<bigcalm> Not quite the same
<oimon> i have a cornish pasty for lunch
<diplo> oimon, I just read up.. I left virgin 8 months ago and get at least 3-4 of those letters a month
<diplo> If you are still on the phone add me :)
<oimon> diplo: i called 0845 454 11 11
<oimon> then after waiting a few mins if offers you to press 0 to speak to team. it failed twice and worked the 3rd time.
<oimon> then i said "add me to your do not contact list"
<oimon> she said ummm not sure how to do that
<oimon> finally she promised it was sorted
<oimon> i should have recorded the call tho
<diplo> :)
<czajkowski> oimon: only if you'd tell her you were recording it
<oimon> czajkowski: i don't think that's an issue
<czajkowski> yes it is...
<czajkowski> you have to tell someone you are recording a call
<oimon> Yes. The relevant law, RIPA, does not prohibit individuals from recording their own communications provided that the recording is for their own use.
<oimon> do I have to let people know that I intend to record their telephone conversations with me? No,
<oimon> ^^ from ofcom
<czajkowski> yes...
<BigRedS> but saying "I'm recording this" is normally more effective than just quietly recording it anyway
<czajkowski> what kinda people want to record a conversation anyways
<czajkowski> *bogggles*
<czajkowski> weird
<oimon> in the past , it's made VM hang up on me
<czajkowski> oimon: because it's weird...
<czajkowski> that's why
<BigRedS> oh
<oimon> i had to record my calls with them because they thieved from me
<czajkowski> BigRedS: aye exactly
 * czajkowski goes to read emails 
<oimon> i advise anyone to record calls with VM
<BigRedS> I advise people to just not deal with VM....
<oimon> +1
 * davmor2 blindfolds czajkowski to prevent her from reading her emails :D
<davmor2> oimon: you do if you plan to use it in a court as evidence which aiui is what your plan was
<oimon> davmor2: nope :P
<oimon> davmor2: you are correct, but i don't plan to use it in court
<davmor2> oimon: you do if you are accusing them of theft
<oimon> that was settled a couple of years back
<oimon> my last dealings with them
<daubers> oimon: Snap!
<JGJones> That's a bummer - http://blogs.adobe.com/open/2011/06/focusing-on-the-next-linux-client.html - they're going to drop Adobe Air for linux (I use BBC iPlayer Desktop a lot)
<popey> whhhhhyyyyy?
<popey> get_iplayer > BBC iPlayer Desktop
<mrwarmth> popey, wasn't get_iplayer shutdown by the BBC (or something?)
<MartijnVdS> mrwarmth: it still works for me
<Dave2> It wasn't shut down by the BBC, the author just decided that he didn't want to continue it given that the BBC evidently didn't like it
<czajkowski> am on a roll today with email
<gord> the bbc not improving the iplayer stuff then? i would of thought by now we would have at least a html5 player
<BigRedS> mrwarmth: it's still maintained, just by a different author
<oimon> iplayer_dl was stopped sadly
<oimon> but get_iplayer is essential to my viewing needs
<oimon> i've never downloaded adobe air on any of my devices
<BigRedS> I'd not really felt a need for get_iplayer until the other day when I wanted the video full-screened on one monitor while I worked on another
<BigRedS> and I thought "hang on, why am I watching a video in not-a-video-player?"
<oimon> and if you can keep them on your pvr, why not on your laptop?
<JGJones> popey - can get_iplayer fetch subtitles?
<JGJones> If not then BBC iPlayer Desktop > get_iplayer
<oimon> i believe so
<brobostigon> yes it can,
<JGJones> it can? That's fantastic...can get rid of Air completely then...
<oimon> the interface is a little clucky
<oimon> clunky
<JGJones> oh hell...that's annoying...
<oimon> i end up search my bash history each ti mi use it
<oimon> it's a cli, but slight less easy than iplayer_dl
<JGJones> just enabled twinview on nvidia....globalmenu correctly shows on my primary display....
<JGJones> but unity launcher pops up on secondary
<JGJones> problem with get_iplayer vs BBC iPlayer Desktop - noobs using Ubuntu will use Adobe Air, it does its job well enough. Without that, they would be stuck until get_iplayer can make a GUI for them
<oimon> i get the feeling that bbc allow get_iplayer is because people don't really talk about it
<BigRedS> I put it down to it being more hassle than it's worth to attempt to stop it
<mrwarmth> BigRedS, thank you, I'll give it another go and see if it runs better than the iplayer website on my netbook
<JGJones> oimon, what would they do when they can't update iplayer desktop due to outdated AIR on Linux? We're licence payers after all
<oimon> flash player
<oimon> on the website
<JGJones> although I've complained numerous times to them over subtitles on Android
<JGJones> and they haven't responded to me.
<oimon> i have myplayer on android
<oimon> the old version before they stripped out the iplayer stuff
<JGJones> oimon, I had that but it doesn't play subtitles
<oimon> ok, i never checked
<JGJones> Flash on Android CAN play subtitles, no issues but you have to switch browser agent string to Desktop
<JGJones> so essentially they're stripping out subtitles for mobile versions....doesn't make sense to me.
<oimon> oh myplayer seems to have ceased functioning
<oimon> JGJones: oh yeah, just reading http://gwallgofi.com/post/6172588561/bbc-iplayer-discriminating-against-the-deaf which seems pretty damning
<gord> discriminating is such a horrible word, it gets thrown around so much by people that just assume that someone else is evil and hates them for no reason
<MartijnVdS> "suboptimal" is better?
<JGJones> brobostigon, ta for letting me know about subtitles, just downloading a sample with --subtitles to try out.
<brobostigon> JGJones: ok.
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: or, less than adequate,
<JGJones> gord - it is. I don't think BBC are discriminating *on purpose* but do need a kick up the arse to make them realise that there's a big sector out there that does depend on subtitles.
<JGJones> on one hand, BBC is awesome in doing subtitles (they're the only channel that does 100% subtitling on all channels except for BBC Parliament)
<gord> JGJones, its not an appropriate word to use
<JGJones> so when is it appropriate?
<JGJones> ie in my first job, yonks ago, I was passed over for a team leader position because of my deafness.
<JGJones> Would that count as discrimination? It does for me.
<JGJones> it doesn't say I didn't get it cos I was crap at the job, but because I'm deaf.
<gord> when prejudice is involved, when its unfair. not in this case
<gord> this is a case of one version of a thing having different features of another version of a thing, i would assume for technical reasons
<brobostigon> but it is unfair, under DDA, to not allow, someone with diasablement of any kind access to services, as iunderstand it,
<gord> its not like someone at the bbc is sitting there going "lol, no subtitles for android users, haha! that'll show em", maybe it was an oversight or something, but its not discrimination
<gord> brobostigon, they have access to the service
<brobostigon> gord: yes i agree,
<JGJones> gord I know. I agree, it's an oversight - but when I've complained to them for quite a long time now...
<brobostigon> itmight simply be, technical inability to implement it.
<JGJones> brobostigon, put in a "S" button.
<brobostigon> JGJones: for example, yes.
<JGJones> it works on Desktop version, but not for Mobile (it's removed).
<brobostigon> hmm.
<JGJones> They then launch a new BBC iPlayer app for android.
<JGJones> does use flash too, but no subtitles.
<JGJones> even though I know I've requested it support subtitles. So it's just annoying for me. I agree it's not discrimination, ie they're not doing it on purpose, but it's tiresome.
<brobostigon> i havent been able to try that app yet, my htc dream can run 2.3, however it is too old, to support flash.
<gord> i got annoyed and tired of a lot of bbc things, so i made the choice to stop supporting them, vote with your feet and all that
<mrwarmth> does the android app let you watch live tv? the mobile site doesn't seem to support this
<MooDoo> what the?
<popey> Crivens!
<davmor2> JGJones: I don't think they are going out of their way to be prejudiced, think of the platform you are talking about,  it's a phone.  Their thinking is likely to be if a deaf person can use this then they are deaf, they just have poor hearing so make it loud.  Then thought no further.  Plus mobile browsers strip out loads of stuff incase you are on 3g for example.
<MooDoo> anyone else just get reloagged back in the channel?
<popey> nope
<popey> only you
<MooDoo> rats
<davmor2> s/are/aren't
<popey> 13:24:05 < oimon> i get the feeling that bbc allow get_iplayer is because people don't really talk about it
<popey> they _did_ employ someone specifically to block it
<popey> but I think they gave up
<davmor2> popey: I thought that had more to do with the fact that it didn't check if you were in the uk more than anything else
<popey> nope
<popey> he was employed to put counter measures in
<davmor2> popey: that's just daft then
<davmor2> the bbc should of promoted it as a linux client and left it at that :D
<JGJones> davmor2, sure I get that they strip out lots...you can't use iplayer app over 3G anyway! However is subtitles *really* bandwidth hungry? :) It's just a few lines of text showing on screen.
<popey> i dont think its a case of stripping them out
<popey> it's all about the workflow that gets video from the broadcast centre to the web
<popey> and subtitles come from a different place
<popey> I suspect it's not straightforward to merge the two at the cdn
<JGJones> davmor2, finally, I don't know a single deaf person without a phone :) I've used a mobile since 1999 - although it was expensive for me as I used it for texting!
<JGJones> back then, the search was on for a mobile that does vibrate for text alerts :)
<JGJones> common complaint for iPhone for the deaf - the vibrate is too weak.
<JGJones> different needs after all.
<JGJones> popey - you're probably right...I'll like to know how BBC do their subtitles.
<JGJones> At least I got an tablet...watching Desktop version isn't too painful on that compared to a mobile
<MartijnVdS> JGJones: you have a desktop.. ;)
<popey> I dont think they do
<popey> they farm it out
 * popey wonders if ipad version does subtitles
<JGJones> popey, nope it doesn't
<JGJones> last I checked anyway.
<JGJones> In fact even via the website you can't either - you get a H264 stream right? But without subtitles.
<MartijnVdS> JGJones: get_iplayer can get the subtitle streams as well
<popey> ipad app just uses the h264 streams AIUI
<JGJones> MartijnVdS, yeah brobostigon told me that...just been downloading a few shows now, much better than iPlayer Desktop
<JGJones> pity the Terry Prachett show isn't subtitled. Pah.
<popey> i have get_iplayer setup as a cron job
<popey> it just runs hourly to grab the programmes I like
<popey> 91G     ../media/TV
<MartijnVdS> popey: you must like a lot of programmes :)
<popey> guess I should delete some stuff from there
<popey> nah, not really
<MartijnVdS> popey: then why do you run it hourly? :)
<popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/627316/
<popey> so it grabs as soon as its ready
<popey> rather than waiting until midnight
<oimon> popey: what does your cron look like?
<MartijnVdS> oimon: Marsellus Wallace*
<popey> lol
<popey> 0 * * * * /home/alan/bin/download_programmes.sh >/dev/null 2>&1
<popey> :D
<oimon> meh
<MartijnVdS> pastebinit < /home/alan/bin/download_programmes.sh
<popey>  /home/alan/bin/get_iplayer --no-purge --vmode=flashhd,flashvhigh,flashhigh,flashstd,flashnormal,iphone --pvr --flvstreamer=/home/alan/bin/flvstreamer --output=/srv/media/TV --subdir
<oimon> where's the bit that gets the progs
<popey> so lets suppose I want to record all occurrances of Doctor Who.
<popey> I do this:-
<popey> get_iplayer "Doctor Who" --pvr-add "DrWho"
<popey> then when I run download_programmes.sh it uses --pvr to scan for new episodes and download them
<popey> win
<MartijnVdS> \o/
<MartijnVdS> that's a nice feature actually
<popey> yeah
<popey> there is a GUI for it, but it's a bit ropey
<oimon> oh i've used it differently
<popey> and we don't need no stinking gui
<popey> yeah, you can run it to just grab files directly
<popey> the pvr way is nicer
<popey> I never have to think about whether it will get doctor who, it just gets it
<oimon> yes, nice
<oimon> and it doesn't need a daemon
<popey> yeah
<oimon> i thought the pvr way req'd a daemon
<popey> i think you can do it like that
<popey> but this way is better
<oimon> i never really read the manual tbh
<oimon> i was in a rush
<popey> although, what I should do is add a semaphore to the script
<popey> so if it overruns it doesn't spawn another copy
<oimon> and never returned to it to discover the goodness
<popey> I did blog this btw
<popey> http://popey.com/blog/2010/01/14/ubuntu-boxee-and-get_iplayer-on-the-acer-aspire-revo/
 * oimon clicks
<s-fox> Hello.
<brobostigon> afternoonings s-fox
<s-fox> Hello brobostigon , how are you?
<brobostigon> s-fox: nt bad, could be better. and you?
<MooDoo> hello s-fox :)
<s-fox> brobostigon,  I am okay thank you.  I will be happier when it is 18:00
<s-fox> :)
<s-fox> Hello MooDoo , how are you doing?
<brobostigon> s-fox: :)
<MooDoo> s-fox: very well thanks :D
<s-fox> Great
<MooDoo> s-fox: what you up to on this dull day?
<s-fox> well,  i banned 189 forum accounts earlier.  currently doing some real life work - perl scripts
<s-fox> what about you MooDoo ?
<popey> JGJones: iplayer on ipad _does_ do subtitles
<livingdaylight> hi
<livingdaylight> Do the bamboo pens work on Ubuntu, or Linux for that matter?
<oimon> anyone regularly use skype?
<livingdaylight> oimon, on and off, why?
<oimon> calling someone in russia, call quality is v bad
<oimon> getting disconnections etc, wondering if it is skype issue or the far end bandwidth
<oimon> i thought skype only req'd 8kbs
<oimon> worked OK for 15 mins
<livingdaylight> quality varies for sure... I use it mostly to IM, lol
<oimon> some bright spark wanted to perform an important interview on it
<s-fox> I use it to call co-workers in USA and Oz
<oimon> not me...although any failure makes me look stupid
<livingdaylight> I found the sound quality for the alternatives even worse though
<livingdaylight> wengaphone and gizmo?
<oimon> http://www.engadget.com/2011/06/15/htc-pulls-a-180-now-says-gingerbreads-coming-to-desire/
<gord> oimon, skype doesn't need much bandwidth, but like anything real time, is really affected by packet loss
<livingdaylight> gord, what affects packet loss?
<gord> bad lines
<gord> long distance stuff
<kaushal> Hi
<oimon> cobwebs on the interwbs
<daubers> microwaves
<kaushal> How do i ignore grep command self-match in ps aux | grep squid ?
<oimon> ps aux | grep squid | grep -v grep
<MartijnVdS> kaushal: what are you trying to do?
<MartijnVdS> kaushal: because grepping ps isn't usually the right solution :)
<bigcalm> | grep -v grep
<MartijnVdS> (check out pgrep)\
<kaushal> How about ps aux | grep [s]quid ?
<hoover> cheers all
<MartijnVdS> kaushal: would work, not recommended. Just use pgrep, that's what it's for.
<kaushal> ok
<kaushal> so if i waant to kill all the pid using pgrep ?
<kaushal> is it pkill ?
<MartijnVdS> kaushal: use pkill :)
<JGJones> popey, that's good news - I'll tell my Apple-loving friends in case they're not aware - probably not as they gave up long ago :) (I don't have any iDevices - so wondering when they're going to enable it for Honeycomb at least if not phones)
<MartijnVdS> kaushal: or just service squid stop (or invoke-rc.d squid stop)
<kaushal> MartijnVdS: Thanks
<kaushal> oimon: Thanks
<popey> JGJones: this has worked for nearly a year
<livingdaylight> JGJones, hi
<ujjain> Hi, is it Ross's keys or Ross' keys?
<MooDoo> ujjain: how about the keys belonging to ross ;)
<JGJones> Does it work on the iPhone?
<livingdaylight> http://askubuntu.com/questions/10861/does-the-wacom-bamboo-pen-touch-work-out-of-the-box
<ujjain> MooDoo :(
<JGJones> popey does it work on the iPhone?
<ujjain> - I have no strong desire to replace the passwords manager of the browser, which is LastPass's raison d'Ãªtre.
<ujjain> Is this wrong?
<MooDoo> ujjain: no i was just being silly sorry
<MooDoo> i'm not sure about anyone else, but i'd use ross's keys
<ujjain> MooDoo: hehe ^^
<ujjain> it's either Ross's or Ross'
<ujjain> but Rosskeys would still be pronounced Rosseskeys
<oimon> i generally use Ross'
<dutchie> ross's
<livingdaylight> <livingdaylight> JGJones, hi
<MooDoo> paul's keys
<MooDoo> yeah i like ross's
<JGJones> livingdaylight, hey...haven't got my sony laptop with me sorry, forgot to bring it!
<ujjain> when does the s fall away?
<dutchie> when it is a plural noun ending in s
<ujjain> ahhh, bedankt
<livingdaylight> JGJones, no worries. Just wondered whether you got my email... I'll probably want something fresher with warranty on it; curious nonetheless
<JGJones> livingdaylight, I guessed you might after reading your email :)
<ujjain> The dogs' tails.
<bigcalm> If a JS library is loaded by a frameset, is that library then available to any frame loaded within the frameset?
<ujjain> tnx!!!
<JGJones> livingdaylight, but I'll still pass it on anyway
<livingdaylight> JGJones, didn't mean to discourage you though; just sharing my recent forages into the world of Sony
<X3N_> doubt it bigcalm
<livingdaylight> JGJones, its my constant dilemma; get something cheap and cheerful as long as it works, or something shiny and new, hopefully a little future proof too
<bigcalm> Not something I need, just checking if libs are being loaded several times for no reason
<livingdaylight> JGJones, I think the warranty for peace of mind is a big one though. The recent purchase of the second hand HP on ebay that arrived broken was a big wake-up call
<JGJones> livingdaylight, understandable :) I would tell you everything about the laptop such as any hardware issues anyway (like the HDD getting a SMART warning now which i've mentioned)
<livingdaylight> JGJones, SMART warning?
<MartijnVdS> livingdaylight: hard disk mentioning to the OS that it's breaking
<JGJones> SMART - HDD monitoring chip - tells you if it think it's about to die
<livingdaylight> JGJones, I don't think the guy was dishonest. It was just unfortunate; I think what happened is the parcel got knocked around and damaged in transport
<JGJones> My sony laptop would need a new HDD first.
<JGJones> livingdaylight, yeah. I tend to warp it up in lots of bubblewrap.
<livingdaylight> MartijnVdS, nice trick... the Titanic could've done with such technology :p
<livingdaylight> JGJones, sata?
<MartijnVdS> livingdaylight: they got plenty of notice that the iceberg was breaking :P
<JGJones> livingdaylight, Yeah should be.
<JGJones> livingdaylight, as for Titanic, they did get warnings - it was a user error ;-)
<livingdaylight> MartijnVdS, just not that it was coming, lol
<livingdaylight> JGJones, they did? that's bad then
<JGJones> The ship was meant to be "unsinkable" and the caption took it too literally.
<JGJones> captain
<MooDoo> JGJones: the titanic didn't sink it was her sister ship they swapped the signed around with #conspiracyrocks :D
<JGJones> MooDoo, even so...the sister ship still had plenty of accidents :)
<hamitron> wasn't it suposed to be unsinkable according to engineers design, but certain requirements were ignored to cut costs?
<livingdaylight> how can a ship be unsinkable? what does that even mean?
<JGJones> livingdaylight, they put in a hoover...if it start sinking, it'll suck up all the water from the sea, emptying it...thus it's not sinking...but they couldn't find a hoover bag big enough.
<hamitron> well, I mean, it probably wouldn't have sunk
<hamitron> would of still screwed it up pretty bad
<hamitron> ;)
<livingdaylight> talking of disastyers, a zeppelin blew up in flames just the other day in Germany, reminiscent of the Hindenberg disaster. Only the pilot died, as everyone else jumped off to safety
<popey> JGJones: no
<livingdaylight> JGJones, that's a lot of water to displace, lol
<BigRedS> livingdaylight: it's common on small boats now - if the material used is buoyant itself, it doesn't matter how many holes you put in it it'll float
<livingdaylight> BigRedS, such boats exist now? interesting....
<hamitron> unless you have John Prescott in it ofc
<hamitron> ;/
<JGJones> popey, ta...had asked...they was using iPhones not iPads (not many have one, and didn't want thinking it's useless for vidoes without subtitles....so I can let them know anyway)
<BigRedS> livingdaylight: well, such dinghies do :)
<hamitron> shouldn't a wood boat float?
<livingdaylight> BigRedS, wooden ships of yesteryear strictly speaking would come in that category; but, the problem there was boats splintering into a thousand pieces, because of storms, etc
<livingdaylight> hamitron, my point
<oimon> i built a wooden car but it wooden go
<popey> JGJones: it says it doesnt work in the help
<livingdaylight> oimon, oink oink
<popey> JGJones: and says they're looking at it, and that there's signed programmes available
<JGJones> popey the help say that, but it does work anyway? Probably just saying that it's not reliable I assume?
<popey> no, the help says it, and its true
<popey> subtitles are not available on a streamed h264 file
<popey> does work on ipad though
<JGJones> I see...doesn't iPad use streamed h264 too?
<popey> well, there's two options
<popey> ipad native app, and iplayer in safari
<gord> huuh
<gord> if the iplayer works in safari, why don't they just expand that to everyone
<JGJones> ah so the iPlayer app shows subtitles, and it's only available for iPad?
<popey> no
<popey> but I cant test it here at work
<popey> US proxy
<gord> oh right no, i know, firefox wouldn't support h264
<JGJones> heh ok thanks for testing anyway - I'm just getting the info so that I can mail it to deaf-uk-tech
<popey> I'd pass on 1st hand info, rather than 2nd hand âº
<popey> http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/bigscreen/
<popey> try that?
<popey> ah, that will use flash on a pc
<popey> what if you fake the browser agent âº
<JGJones> popey I know but I don't have an iPad so I'm reduced to asking and I'll ensure all blames go to you ;)
<JGJones> gord - use Chrome - that does play h.264 (Google haven't dropped it yet)
<popey> JGJones: it will detect the browser and serve up flash
<JGJones> popey, looking at it on tablet...see what it does...
<popey> yeah, I have my ipad using 3g over my iphone
<popey> to get uk IP
<popey> slooow
<gord> JGJones, right, thats not what i was saying, i was wondering why the bbc don't just stream out through html5 rather than flash. the reason being that firefox wouldn't support it
<popey> rubbish 3g here
<JGJones> gord they could always use WebM ;-) there's a much larger % of browsers that support it after all.
<gord> i get 600kb/s 3g or so, more than my home connection, way more :(
 * hamitron jeaous
<hamitron> jealous
<hamitron> :/
<gord> used to be spotty but they built a brand new huuuge radio tower, now it works well :)
<hamitron> I'm just hoping the digital tv signal boost actually works
<hamitron> so my parents can get tv
<hamitron> otherwise they will be wanting me to download tv on my internet connection
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> even thought technically, it is "our" connection ;)
<hamitron> it is really mine ofc
<JGJones> popey hey...bbc.co.uk/iplayer/bigscreen does work as long as I use Browser (no others like Dolphin HD)
<JGJones> user agent is set to Tablet, and it show subtitles...
<hamitron> how long will it take for a 30 min program to buffer on a 300kbit connection?
<JGJones> browser messup would be down to Honeycomb being buggy like Google say (you can't use Flash on 3rd party browsrs like Opera Mobile due to permissions)
<hamitron> :/
<siya> Google isn't really helping on this one. SCP via Nautilus, please note that SFTP doesn't work
<siya> ESXi host doesn't like SFTP
<siya> SCP from command line works fine though
<siya> Best GUI SCP client?
<JGJones> siya, I've used Filezilla for SCP (this was quite a long time ago so no idea if anything better!)
<Azelphur> I've always used nautilus sftp:// and never had issues
<diplo> JGJones, I don't think FileZilla does scp just SFTP
<diplo> I had to use WinSCP to connect to my ESXi host
<diplo> Couldn't get FileZilla to connect
<em> hi how's it going
<popey> quietly
<s-fox> shhhh ;)
<s-fox> You'll wake people up. Hehe
<bigcalm> popey: replacing an hdd with ssd - just use dd and everything will work fine, or is there more to it?
<MooDoo> s-fox: where what?   why you wake me up?
<popey> bigcalm: I did a clean install
<bigcalm> Ah
<gord> soo.. i may have written a small one line patch that replaces all the icons in unity with cats. it may be the greatest thing i ever did
<gord> especially the gwibber lens
<bigcalm> Heh
<MartijnVdS> *shudder* gwibber
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: Nothing wrong with gwibber,  and hopefully oneirics will be even better if the canonical devs get their way :D
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: has it stopped crashing yet?
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: and does it work on multiple machines at the same time yet?
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: Yes I have it running on 5 machines and a vm
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: It crashes for me on natty, and before that it never stayed synced properly across different machines
<MartijnVdS> so I gave up
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: I must just be lucky I've only had it crash once
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: also the gwibber lens rocks
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: I might be unlucky and poke it in the wrong places
<s-fox> ttfn
<ali1234> "nothing wrong with gwibber" lol
<ali1234> except for, well, everything
<jacobw> this is a download from the bbc
<davmor2> ali1234: it works fine for me, it isn't as live as some user like and that fine but I don't get time to look at it constantly so it suits me fine :D
<GalahadForce> Do any of you guys run nvidia cards?
<hamitron> what kind?
<Azelphur> of course :p
<GalahadForce> i need some help im in fail safe mode
<GalahadForce> it boots out of range
<GalahadForce> i have a nvidia 5200fk
<GalahadForce> fx*
<GalahadForce> i did something real stupid
<GalahadForce> i stopped gdm
<GalahadForce> it never started again
<GalahadForce> well
<GalahadForce> actually im not sure
<GalahadForce> what it is doing im a noob to xorg
<GalahadForce> i finally figured out i could boot it in fail safe mode
<GalahadForce> this morning after reading all night
<GalahadForce> any ideas on how to make it boot again normally would be appreciated
<AlanBell> GalahadForce: so did you create an xorg.conf file or something?
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Tony] OggCamp banners - http://tonywhitmore.co.uk/blog/2011/06/15/oggcamp-banners/
<stuphi> Anybody fancy helping me out?
<stuphi> if so pleas go to http://better-house.co.uk and tell me what you see. Trying to confirm I have set up some DNS records correctly.
<popey> i see a wordpress blog stuphi
<stuphi> Cool. Thanks Popey!
<popey> like the mapnik video
<stuphi> Thanks
<Myrtti> *sigh*
 * popey hugs Myrtti 
 * Myrtti hugs back tightly
<daubers> Evening
<AlanBell> evening
<brobostigon> evening AlanBell :)
<jacobw> evening
 * czajkowski hugs Myrtti hope things are ok
<gord> czajkowski, i see you are going to dublin as i am leaving, shame :)
<brobostigon> good night eveyone, sleep well.
<popey> nn
<brobostigon> night popey o/
#ubuntu-uk 2011-06-16
<popey> happy birthday AlanBell
<czajkowski> gord: :(
<czajkowski> will not be online today, at the hospital wth the bf getting his tonsils out, anyone looking for me email me
<AlanBell> thanks popey
<AlanBell> I am 6^2 now
<MartijnVdS> happy b'day AlanBell :)
<AlanBell> thanks
<AlanBell> wife just came down and asked if there was anything interesting happening on facebook
<AlanBell> "apparently it is my birthday"
<AlanBell> "oh yeah, happy birthday"
<MartijnVdS> hahaha :)
<diplo> Morning all
<selinuxium> HELP! :)
<JGJones> selinuxium, Hi it look like you're trying to type a letter, can I help?
<selinuxium> Trying to start up PC today and the encrypted drive is unmounted.
<selinuxium> encrypt-mount-private does nothing..
<daubers> selinuxium: Encrypted using the installer?
<selinuxium> Not sure if an update may of borked something
<selinuxium> hey daubers, yup
<JGJones> selinuxium, encrypted home?
<selinuxium> JGJones: yup
<JGJones> you get any output with encrypt-mount-private?
<selinuxium> in home only two files... a README.txt and an Access-Your-Private-Data.desktop
<selinuxium> JGJones: non at all...
<selinuxium> JGJones: unless I run a root...
<selinuxium> if run as root I get Inserted auth token XXXXXXXXXX into the user session keyring and an fopen
<JGJones> Did you save the original passphase when setting up the encrypted home?
<selinuxium> Oh.... Sorry... Morning everyone!  :)
<DJones> Morning all
<selinuxium> Morning DJones
<selinuxium> you got any experience with encrypted home parts not mounting at boot?
<JGJones> selinuxium, <JGJones> Did you save the original passphase when setting up the encrypted home?
<selinuxium> JGJones: Emailed it to myself..
<popey> Morning all!
<selinuxium> hey popey
<selinuxium> o/
<JGJones> selinuxium, you're saying that when you run ecryptfs-mount-private in terminal, it doesn't even ask you for the password?
<selinuxium> JGJones: nope..
<JGJones> hmm - you should be prompted for a password when running that command.
<JGJones> I assume you've rebooted just in case?
<selinuxium> JGJones: several times...
<selinuxium> Not too much on this PC..
<JGJones> You can boot into a LiveCD/USB and recover your encrypted home
<selinuxium> Happy to just flatten and start again, but would like to be able to find out how to fix... :)
<selinuxium> JGJones: recovering it? or just be able to read it?
<JGJones> selinuxium, reading it
<JGJones> there's a guide you could follow for reading it in a LiveCD - http://www.cyberciti.biz/faq/ubuntu-mounting-your-encrypted-home-from-livecd/
<JGJones> I would try reinstalling ecryptfs-utils?
<JGJones> hang on, did you try ecryptfs-recover-private?
<selinuxium> JGJones: nope...
<JGJones> you'll need to run that command as root
<JGJones> it'll search for encrypted private directories
<selinuxium> OK.. :) running it atm.
<selinuxium> tum te tum tum tum.....
<selinuxium> JGJones: Unwrapping passphrase and inserting into the user session keyring failed [-5]   :/
<JGJones> so ecryptfs-recover-private did find your encrypted home and prompted your for your login passphase?
<JGJones> or did you use your mount passphase (that's the random string of alphanumeric characters)?
<selinuxium> JGJones: yup.. GOing to check to see if I have any othedrs knocking about...
<JGJones> selinuxium, I just wanted to clear up - which passphase did you use?
<JGJones> mount passphase or login password?
<selinuxium> JGJones: passphrase
<JGJones> did you try your login password?
<selinuxium> JGJones: nope.
<selinuxium> oh...
<selinuxium> numpty!
<JGJones> the error message was saying unwrapping passphrase - it have your mount passphrase as I understand it and you need login password to continue
<selinuxium> JGJones: Private data mounted read-only at /tmp/ecryptfs.XXXXXX   :)
<selinuxium> going for a reboot and see... :)
<JGJones> lovely - at least your data's not screwed - obviously it's time to find out why it's not doing it at boot.
<selinuxium> all data available in the /tmp directory
<JGJones> oh - what's missing?
<JGJones> ....
 * JGJones slaps self...
<JGJones> need to read properly
<JGJones> ALL data available - not Some data available.
<s-fox> Hello.
<BigRedS> Hello
<JGJones> selinuxium, did a reboot work alright?
<selinuxium> JGJones: nope... Stil same issue...
<selinuxium> Interesting... May just get data off and rebuild... :)
<JGJones> try reinstalling ecryptfs-utils
<JGJones> apt-get --reinstall install ecryptfs-utils
<selinuxium> JGJones: think that will be the next step..
<selinuxium> JGJones: THat worked! :)
<selinuxium> JGJones: very strange, but learnt lots about ecrypt I didn't know.... CHeers  :)
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<selinuxium> hey brobostigon
<brobostigon> hey selinuxium
<daubers> Hmm... just examined a RAID that has a 5.2TB block device that apparently has a 167PB file on it
<daubers> stupid metadata fail
<brobostigon> interesting situation,
<popey> i want to get some better performance out of my software raid setup on my microserver
<popey> I should post my question to askubuntu
<popey> yes, I'll do that
<davmor2> morning all
<daubers> popey: What do you get from it at the moment?
<daubers> o/ davmor2
<davmor2> morning daubers how's the windows experiment going?
<daubers> davmor2: Good. I'm writing another blog post, but the task I'm doing for that one is taking some time :)
<davmor2> daubers: ah you're trying to print something right ;)
<daubers> davmor2: heh, you joke, but it took me 15 minutes to get the office printer installed on the blasted thing
<davmor2> daubers: haha
<daubers> It discovered the network printer easily, but doesn't bother automatically sorting the driver. Asks me to select it from a list which doesn't contain it, then click a button to try and find it on Win Update, 5 minutes of waiting and then go through the list again to find it
<daubers> In ubuntu it was just "Goto the printers setting box, click add, it appears in the list, click ok, it works"
<davmor2> daubers: at least you found it I had one where I did all that and it still didn't show up so off the the manufacturers website I went and got it manually no fun at all
<daubers> davmor2: Rubbish
<davmor2> daubers: what that you have to use windows or it's no fun at all tracking down drivers :D
<daubers> the second part :p
<daubers> Most of the stuff I do everyday is now platform agnostic, so I haven't really noticed that much getting in my way
<davmor2> daubers: the best is if you have a generic piece of hardware (like a webcam) and windows say oh I know what that is, says it works and it does and you can't persuade it different and can't find the driver details on the supermarkets web site and no info on Google that's real fun
<davmor2> daubers: can you tell I used to fix pc's for a while?
<daubers> davmor2: Just a tad
<davmor2> it doesn't work even
<daubers> Hmmm
<daubers> May have to switch USB stick suppliers, these ones are twice as slow as the last batch :(
<davmor2> daubers: no the last batch you were using linux it's windows that is slow ;)
<daubers> davmor2: These are in linux :) Can't use windows at work, _everything_ is linux based in the workshop
<davmor2> haha
<popey> daubers: just writing it up :D
<daubers> popey: Fair enough
<popey> its a lot to write up
<popey> so I am doing it in one place :D
<daubers> popey: If you've got mroe than 3disks in there, then I'd suspect the slow bit to be your network (depending on RAID mode)
<popey> nope, not network bottleneck
<popey> this is all local IO
<daubers> Desktop grade drives?
<popey> its got 8 disks (9 if you include the boot disk)
<popey> yes
<daubers> RAID 5?
<popey> no
<popey> 10
<daubers> Urgh
<daubers> There's your problem :)
<oimon> i've never known software raid not to suck
 * popey wonders whether more useful information is to follow
<daubers> popey: You have 2 4 disk stripes mirrored?
<Laney> my software raid does not suck
<Laney> there, now you know
<popey> Mine doesn't suck, I just wonder if I can do better
<daubers> popey: Also what size disks?
<oimon> and RPM
<popey> 2x2TB and 4x500G
<daubers> Urgh, that will also cause problems
<popey> sorry
<popey> 4x2TB and 4x500G
<popey> 4x2TB is md0, 4x500G is md1
<popey> md0 and md1 are one giant lvm
<daubers> So they're concatenated?
<popey> however md1 is new to the mix so very little io there as lvm uses the md0 disks first
<daubers> popey: So I'd suspect you get maybe ... 90 MB/s?
<oimon> popey: what speed RPM are the disks?
<daubers> Streaming
<popey> http://askubuntu.com/questions/49022/how-do-i-improve-my-server-disk-performance/612
<popey> oimon: one sec
<MartijnVdS> popey: http://www.redhat.com/magazine/009jul05/features/lvm2/#fig-striped ?
<popey> trying to figure out
<popey> I'd rather not run smartctl against them
<popey> any other way to find out
<daubers> MartijnVdS: I'd avoid that on mismatched drive sizes
<daubers> popey: Create a big file from /dev/zero with dd
<daubers> It will give you speeds :)
<MartijnVdS> popey: check /sys for serial numbers, look up on manufactuerer's website
<popey> yeah, rummaging
<daubers> popey: Ideally in your situation, I'd move the 2TB drives into a RAID5. Depending on the file size I'd set the stripe width to something between 128k and 256k and I'd setup ext4 with the stripe-width option to match
<popey> I switched from RAID5 to RAID10 because I was led to believe that write performance was better
<daubers> I'd then rsync mirror that onto the external box, as that will be limited in performance to a single SATA channel (i.e. the esata link)
<daubers> I'd be surprised by that, as for every write to the block device you're doing two write (i.e. one to raid0 1 and one to raid0 2)
<daubers> If you're using it as a metadata controller for a san where the writes a maybe a couple of blocks in length, then I'd agree.
<popey> how can I tell what stripe width is currently in use?
<daubers> should say in mdstat
<popey> 64K
<popey> I take it that's the default?
<daubers> Yep, whats the average file size you're copying?
<popey> no idea
<popey> lots of small files though
<daubers> small as in less than 1MB or less than 100MB?
<popey> less than 1M
<daubers> (small for me is less than 1GB_
<popey> this is a home server
<popey> not a corp san
<daubers> 64k should be ok then.
<popey> so 4x2TB as RAID5, not 6?
<daubers> I'd RAID 5 it, there's little performance difference between 5 and 6, but in that setup you would be better off with raid 5 for capacity
<oimon> i used a program called iozone to map my drive performance. you can then graph the results. e.g. http://ubuntuone.com/p/zUW/
<daubers> popey: There's also a lovely program called dstat which will give you a MB/s count (on screen and to a file)
<daubers> popey: OOI, whats the total size of all the data that's being copied?
<BigRedS> it'd be nuice if ubuntu one links preserved file extensions
<oimon> yep...it's an ODS file
<popey> ~700GB
<popey> BigRedS: preserved it here
<oimon> you don't know until you click it though
<BigRedS> popey: no, I mean in the link itself, so oimon's link becomes http://ubuntuone.com/p/zUW.xls
<popey> not for me it doesnt
<daubers> popey: You're using rsync to copy?
<BigRedS> so before clicking on it I'd know OOo is going to try to run away with all my memory
<popey> daubers: cp
<X3N_> which virtual machine software is favoured these days?
<popey> virtualbox
<X3N_> cheers
<daubers> popey: You're achieving about 99.5MB/s, which is close to the theoretical cap of what 2 desktop drives in a stripe could do in that situation
<daubers> allow about 50MB/s per desktop drive
<popey> hmm
<daubers> popey: Move it into RAID5 and you should get about 50MB/s more
<popey> heh
<popey> thats going to be fun :D
<popey> moving it all about
<daubers> popey: This does depend on the speed you can read the data off the source drives though :)
<Daviey> sustained 90.5MB/s shouldn't be sniffed at.
<Daviey> err 99*
<popey> source drives?
<popey> it's cp
<popey> from dir to dir on same disks
<daubers> popey: Ah! In that case it's even worse than that :) Certainly in that scenario you really shouldn't sniff at the performance you're getting
 * oimon wonders if MooDoo is awake
<popey> hah
<popey> hmm, i could fail out half the raid 0 to make two disks available
<Daviey> I find that if i benchmark writes to /dev/null, it blows the water out of /dev/sda
<popey> and make a degraded raid 5 from two 2TB
<daubers> reading+writing on the same drives _really_ hurts any spinny disk system
<popey> then move the data over and expand when done
<popey> or just leave as is, if this is the best I can expect
<popey> 10K RPM drives help?
<daubers> popey: I'd leave as it. 10K drives will help, SSD will help even more :)
<popey> yeah, 2TB SSD...
<popey> not that I'm using all that space
 * daubers was happily pulling 1.5GB/s from an 8 disk raid 5 with SSD's last week
<daubers> popey: The other thing you could do is use rsync, so you're not copying files that haven't changed
<popey> thats not technically possible I dont think
<daubers> Why not?
<popey> its a clean copy
<daubers> You copy the files then blat the other directory?
<popey> _I_ don't do this
<popey> rsnapshot does
<popey> and no, thats not quite how it works
<daubers> Hmmm
<daubers> so you're using rsnapshot into a dir, then making a copy of that dir?
<popey> no
<popey> rsnapshot is a wrapper around rsync/cp
<daubers> workflow is fun
<popey> http://rsnapshot.org/screenshots.html
<popey> :D
<popey> note cp -al
<popey> uses hard links so you're not copying all files every time
<popey> and rsync ensures you're not transferring all files every time
<daubers> Ah! Now I think I understand
<daubers> Yeah, that cp will be your bottleneck in rsnapshot. If you want to get a true idea of what you're disks can supply you with, then you'd need to benchmark one disk in the set and multiply up. Generally desktop drives are between 50/60MB/s
<daubers> Any idea what chipset the server uses?
<popey> yes, see the askubuntu thing
<popey> at the bottom
<daubers> I mean North/South bridge
<popey> oh, uhm
<popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/627905/
<daubers> That'll define how many pci-e (or equiv) lanes are going to your sata controller
<popey> 00:11.0 SATA controller: ATI Technologies Inc SB700/SB800 SATA Controller [AHCI mode] (rev 40)
<popey> thats the internal one
<popey> 02:00.0 RAID bus controller: Silicon Image, Inc. SiI 3132 Serial ATA Raid II Controller (rev 01)
<popey> thats the external one
<shauno> why does "ATI [...] SATA Controller" still look so wrong
<daubers> AMD RS785E/SB820M chipset
<shauno> (not saying it's wrong, it just looks jarring)
<popey> when that cp is running (which it is now because I have rsnapshot run at midday [also, yay, lunch]) I can't even get an ls in a reasonable time
<popey> more RAM might help I guess?
<popey> disk cache
<popey> Mem:   1925784k total,  1901548k used,    24236k free,   952244k buffers
<popey> Swap:  3905528k total,    12868k used,  3892660k free,    19772k cached
<daubers> without a block diagram I'd be tempted to say the most you can expect from that would be 250MB/s (one pci-e 1.1 lane)
<daubers> more ram will help the ls
<popey> I also try to stream video from it
<popey> its my get_iplayer box
<popey> and that struggles when an rsnapshot kicks in
<daubers> Yeah, you'll hit the iops limits of the spinny disks
<popey> so it ends up doing the backup near constantly
<popey> as soon as one finishes, the next is ready to start
<popey> the pitfalls of a low powered server :D
<daubers> popey: To improve that I'd use you're external box as the get_iplayer repo
<daubers> As a seperate volume
<popey> good call
<daubers> I'd also see if you can nice down the rsnapshot during the day, or just let it run at night when you're less likely to be using it for streaming vids
<popey> good call
 * popey modifies his cron job
<daubers> Otherwise, the only way to improve it's performance is more ram, better proc, SSD's etc. You might get a bit more by tweaking the ext4 stripe_width settings, but it won't do miracles
<oimon> we have horrendous problems deleted bazillions of tiny files
<popey> ta
<bigcalm> popey: superhub replaced, v+ box replaced \o/
<popey> yay
<bigcalm> Bloke couldn't find anything wrong though
<oimon> we run snapshots with hard linking too, sometimes takes days to reduce the number of files
<popey> nice -n19 should do it
<bigcalm_> Meh, locked myself out of the router's web interface. Silly me
<andylockran> guys - anyone done much work on xml + xslt in IE?
<bigcalm> If the superhub didn't reboot every time I added a mac/ip pair, this wouldn't be so messy
<s-fox> andylockran,  Some experience, why?
<andylockran> s-fox: IE is returning the transformed XML as a string, whereas firefox returns it as a document fragment
<oimon> just tried the tweetdeck app inside chrome...ugh :(
<Oli``> popey: I had a play around and posted an answer on your AU question.
<popey> nice
<popey> thanks!
 * popey times writing to the disk that isnt in the array first
<popey> 52s :D
<popey> whilst an rsnapshot is running
<Oli``> Probably not the fairest of test
<Oli``> mdadm does seem to have some odd defaults... Unless they're there for a reason I don't yet understand.
<popey> box only has 2GB RAM
<popey> I have 8GB here I'm memtesting in another server which I'll put in later
<Oli``> I only have 6GB in this at the moment (with a desktop running on it too) so that might be enough to boost the caches right up.
<Oli``> popey: it's an Atom, isn't it?
<popey> AMD
<popey> similar though
<popey> laptop cpu
<popey> hmm, only 4GB here, not 8GB
<popey> ah well
 * bigcalm returns from lunch to find his 'net connection still up
<bigcalm> So far, so good
<popey> :D
<selinuxium> Hmmm these seem interesting... http://www.businessdirect.bt.com/products/seagate-500gb-momentusxt-hybrid-sata-300-2-5--7200rpm-32mb-70JK.html?utm_source=retention+email&utm_medium=email&utm_content=I900&utm_campaign=email140611
<selinuxium> Sorry, should of cut the crap off the back of that URL
<Oli``> selinuxium: gets fairly mediocre reviews http://www.pcpro.co.uk/reviews/hard-disks/360301/seagate-momentus-xt-500gb
<selinuxium> Hmm... Saw some benchmarking and it looked good..
<Oli``> Although TechRadar were backflipping in joy by the end of their review: http://www.techradar.com/reviews/pc-mac/pc-components/storage/disk-drives-hdd-ssd-/seagate-momentus-xt-500gb-710193/review
<selinuxium> Could imagine a couple raided in a Media PC would be pretty sweet...
<dwatkins> I'm tempted to put an SSD in my laptop to double the speed of it.
 * dwatkins looks into hybrid drives as well
<popey> bah
<Oli``> If you had space for 2 2.5" disks, I'd go with a pure SSD and a pure mechanical. Much more predictable performance.
<popey> unetbootin made a usb stick that wont do memtest
 * popey tries a memtest usb thing
<dwatkins> memtest is tiny, I think I have a 512 MB USB stick somewhere... ;)
<popey> sorted
<popey> its running now
<popey> if it passes I'll put that ram in my microserver
<Oli``> memtest would actually fit within 512 KB. It's only 160KB + boot overhead
<popey> Oli``: that dd takes 8 seconds when the box is fairly idle
<popey> stripe_cache_size doesnt exist here
<Oli``> popey: Sounds like sequential write is bombing along nicely then
<popey> yeah
<popey> I'll have a google through some of those settings
<popey> earlier daubers did some calculations here and seemed to think I'm getting expected throughput for non-enterprise 7200rpm drives
<Oli``> 120MB/s on RAID10 is 60MB/s per pair so yeah, I guess that isn't terrible but it's not great.
<Daviey> popey: Please write a blog post about this!
<daubers> Oli``: popey isn't doing straight streaming reads, he's read/writing from the same volume. So what he's getting is relativley good for a software RAID10
<daubers> Oli``: the copy in the post seems to be writing at ~90MB/s to the volume (so 90MB/s to each pair of drives simultaniously as well as reading the stuff from the disk) so it's pretty good
<oimon> usually i get better results writing over the network than from disk-disk
<daubers> oimon: One disk to a second disk (either over network or seperate physical disk) is always quicker than a copy from the disk to the same disk. Less head movement required in the first instance
<popey> Daviey: which bit?
<popey> ooo, need to go buy wifeys birthday pressie
<oimon> ubuntu earrings?
 * daubers needs to get a birthday card for his wife on the way home
<daubers> already booked a party at pizza hut for tomorrow evening \o/
<gord> i don'ti have a new theory, no one is allowed to complain about missing/moved/hidden system trays in linux until they have had to code something that implements it =\
<davmor2> popey: that should now be the number one priority for you
<JGJones> daubers, a question for you re your 30 days with Windows...it's Windows 7 yes? Does it solve that annoying problem with USB where if I plug in a USB device...say a mouse into 1 port of USB, it'll say it's looking for driver and then it's ready...there's a delay...
<JGJones> and then other time you put in mouse again...but into a different usb port and does the whole installing driver crap all over again?
<daubers> JGJones: no, it still does that
<JGJones> Worse with printers - get Printer, Printer (Copy), Printer (copy 2) etc?
<MartijnVdS> how annoying
<JGJones> sigh.
<oimon> lol
<JGJones> MartijnVdS, I get it all the time on a laptop with Windows...ok NOT that annoying, but still...I shouldn't need it to install drivers for the same sodding hardware everytime.
<JGJones> or USB memory stick. or get a laptop for Windows with a single USB port(!)
<Daviey> popey: generally, about your RAID experience.
<Daviey> tuning, throughput etc
<safiyyah> guys I got an initramfs error again, I am not on the live disk. Here is the output of fdisk -l http://paste.ubuntu.com/627966/
<safiyyah> what has happened at line 12?
<safiyyah> AlanBell, popey ?
<daubers> safiyyah: Thats nothing to worry about. Just means your partition doesn't end on a cylinder boundary on the disk (not an issue, but with older spinny disks can lower performance marginally)
<daubers> safiyyah: See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cylinder-head-sector for more info on cylinder/head/sectors on disks
<daubers> Also... http://www.reghardware.com/2011/06/16/retro_gamer_day_of_the_tentacle/ <- Best point and click game _ever_
<MartijnVdS> DoTT!!
<MartijnVdS> o/
<MartijnVdS> \o/ even
<safiyyah> okay so continue with mounting the broken installation
<safiyyah> ?
<safiyyah> daubers?
<safiyyah> btw how do you kill the ubuntu software centre? I x killed it but still it isn't dead as I cannot use synaptic or command line
<dutchie> !aptfix
<lubotu3> If an APT front-end crashed and your database is locked, try this in a !terminal: Â« sudo fuser -vki /var/lib/dpkg/lock;sudo dpkg --configure -a Â»
<safiyyah> dutchie it stills says locked
<safiyyah> http://paste.ubuntu.com/627976/
 * BigRedS has always just rmd the lock file
<safiyyah> rmd?
<ali1234> i had that a couple of days ago. apt locked, nothing running
<ali1234> first time i've ever seent hat
<safiyyah> lol ali it's not funny
<safiyyah> i have an initramfas error again
<safiyyah> popey not around to help me lol
<safiyyah> initramfs*
<safiyyah> how did you solve it ali1234 ?
<ali1234> it fixed itself after a while
<MartijnVdS> safiyyah: you could try resizing the first partition (while booted from a live cd)
<MartijnVdS> safiyyah: to match the boundary
<MartijnVdS> safiyyah: you can use a graphical tool for it (gparted?)
<MartijnVdS> !initramfs
<MartijnVdS> hmm
<MartijnVdS> then for debugging:
<MartijnVdS> !grub
<lubotu3> GRUB2 is the default Ubuntu boot manager since 9.10 (Karmic). Lost GRUB after installing Windows? See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RestoreGrub - For more information and troubleshooting for GRUB2 please refer to https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Grub2 - See !grub1 for releases before Karmic (9.10)
<BigRedS> what does the initramfs error say?
<BigRedS> maybe you just need a new intird?
<safiyyah> BigRedS:  I don't remember what it said
<safiyyah> is there a command I can run?
<BigRedS> mkinitrd will create a new initrd image which may help. But the important bit is that it creates one different to the current broken one
<BigRedS> and to do that, you need to know what's broken
<BigRedS> for which you need the error
<BigRedS> (or a log if it did eventually boot into something)
<safiyyah> Okay
<safiyyah> I will reboot and write the error down and come back
<safiyyah> thank you guys
<safiyyah> okay am back
<BigRedS> aha, with errors?
<safiyyah> right my initramfas error reads as follows http://paste.ubuntu.com/628013/  I would like to add that I have not plugged in any new USB devices but I did run the updates that pop up twice in the last couple of days
<safiyyah> yes BigRedS , it's what I went to reboot for :)
<safiyyah> okay so what now guys?
<BigRedS> that doesn't look like an error
<BigRedS> what happens there? does it just stop booting?
<safiyyah> yes it stops bootings
<safiyyah> hello?
<BigRedS> hi, sorry, work cropped up
<BigRedS> is that all it says
<safiyyah> the initramfs error yes, but above that there was more stuff on the screen about being unable to mount dev/sda
<BigRedS> oh
<BigRedS> that's probably the more interesting bit
<safiyyah> okay shall i reboot again?
<safiyyah> i think i will come back at 6pm when you guys are available
<safiyyah> for now I will write up the error
<oimon> http://www.reghardware.com/2011/06/16/the_redner_group_dropped/ << lol
<oimon> make a better game next time
<TheOpenSourcerer> Interesting new business - launching free 3 year trusted signed certs... http://www.affirmtrust.com/
<BigRedS> what's their income?
<dogmatic69> o.o
<TheOpenSourcerer> >128bit & longer term certs I guess
<dogmatic69> how they do it free when other places are like Â£900
<dogmatic69> TheOpenSourcerer: "Up to 256 bit Encryption"
<TheOpenSourcerer> GoDaddy do it for $50/annum apparently.
<dogmatic69> so >256
<BigRedS> well, doing certs for free is easy
<BigRedS> the hard part is also being a profitable business
<TheOpenSourcerer> Indeed,
<TheOpenSourcerer> "If you are looking for a free SSL certificate that provides 128 bit encryption, you have visited the perfect site."
<TheOpenSourcerer> They go live next month.
<dogmatic69> BigRedS: how much do they actually do after you have your cert?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Nowt.
<TheOpenSourcerer> I guess.
<TheOpenSourcerer> It's not hard. They want to get mind-share and traction. Then up-sell.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Maybe you can't have lots of free certs either.
<dogmatic69> the dropdown says 1, 1-5, 5 or more
<oimon> the question is, does firefox et al accept it?
<TheOpenSourcerer> If you read their website it seems so.
<oimon> i have some certs that firefox doesn't accept, but chrome and ie do
<BigRedS> odd. I thought they were all in the same box?
<oimon> i think it's the cybertrust CA
<JGJones> GeoTrust
<JGJones> Well it say it's from the founders of GeoTrust
<dogmatic69> "Neal led the efforts to raise $24 million in venture financing and sold GeoTrust to VeriSign (NASDAQ: VRSN) for $125 million in September 2006"
<dogmatic69> i guess he has the money to hand them out for free
<JGJones> free certificates to build up customer base
<dogmatic69> yip
<JGJones> and then retire it I guess
<dogmatic69> and if you started GeoTrust hes just doing it again, steal the customers back and then sell it off again for 100m +
<ali1234> i approve of this
<ali1234> so does anyone know how to download microsoft office documents from gmail?
<ali1234> it only gives me the options "view" and "open as google document" and they both do exactly the same thing
<oimon> .doc?
<oimon> i get ViewÂ Â Â DownloadÂ Â 
<ali1234> no spreadsheet actually
<ali1234> xlsx
<oimon> gmail always offers me to download
<oimon> docx too
<oimon> ah - are you on your phone?
<ali1234> http://imagebin.org/158611
<ali1234> no
<ali1234> i am using firefox on ubuntu
<shauno> what action does clicking the icon give you ?
<TheOpenSourcerer> ARM based 480 Core 2U Servers running Ubuntu :-) http://arstechnica.com/business/news/2011/06/arm-server-startup-attempts-to-jump-start-datacenter-software-ecosystem.ars
<gord> wouldn't mind replacing my little home server with an arm based machine, would be nice
<gord> (and hopefully, cheep)
<TheOpenSourcerer> yes - me too. I currently have a VIA c7
<ali1234> shauno: none
<hamitron> VIA C7 is nice
<hamitron> :)
<JGJones> same here....a nice low power device as a server
<hamitron> I have some 200mhz sparq based thing
<hamitron> :/
<gord> running an atom in mine, fed up of atoms, booo
<JGJones> mine's a old AMD Athlon - my old desktop, but it's in a Shuttle case so still small enough to stuff away somewhere
<AyeRight> Kernel missing. Cant boot :-(
 * hamitron tuts at JGJones
<gord> i was gonna do something similar when i built my server, but i figured its cheaper to get some low power stuff than run a high power old desktop
<hamitron> ;)
<safiyyah> okay I am back..... with the whole erro
<safiyyah> BigRedS I think init it messed up
<safiyyah> I wrote down and types up the whole thing here http://paste.ubuntu.com/628040/
<safiyyah> so i have an initramfs message and fdisk - l brings this up:
<JGJones> gord - I was gonna do the same, but then company went bust and losing a job mean purchase of hardware stuff have to wait :)
<shauno> I just worry my leccy bill is gonna be more than the hardware :/
<safiyyah> http://paste.ubuntu.com/628044/
<JGJones> yeah that's true...my server is actually switched off and just switched on when it's needed.
<TheOpenSourcerer> This is the one I built back in 2007 and it's still running fine.
<TheOpenSourcerer> http://www.theopensourcerer.com/2007/09/08/untangle-asterisk-pbx-and-file-server-all-in-one/
<hamitron> do you guys sometimes find you buy new hardware to replace old, to save power.... and you get greedy and just run both because it is there to be used?
<safiyyah> guys ..... I have a broken system please help, refer to previous messages
<JGJones> hamitron, I don't because I don't keep old stuff - clean it up and donate it.
<JGJones> or ebay it.
<shauno> keep both, sure.  run both, no.  I'm very picky about what's left 24x7
<hamitron> JGJones: I hoard the donations ;)
<JGJones> prefer to donate though (and to WORTHY causes :P)
<hamitron> I am worthy \o/
<JGJones> TheOpenSourcerer, interesting blog...keeping it for reference...I had looked into Untangle before...how good is it in your opinion?
<hamitron> JGJones: the 2 charities I phoned up to take some comps, won't take ones this low spec
<JGJones> hamitron, I have a friend that works in a deaf school in Kenya...they'll take it.
<AyeRight> Hami no new stuff is more energy efficient. I sold all my old stuff. Got one computer and use a small router with server software :-) all runs under 100 wat
<TheOpenSourcerer> JGJones: I ended up not using it so can't really comment.
<JGJones> they're desperate for anything.
<TheOpenSourcerer> The server just runs 10.04, self built asterisk, apache, samba etc...
<AyeRight> Saved many pounds. But then prices go up  lol
<hamitron> JGJones: where I go to contact them?
<hamitron> I'm not paying someone to take my shit
<hamitron> stuff
<hamitron> :s
<AyeRight> Selfish
<TheOpenSourcerer> JGJones: At that time, Untangle was built on a custom distro and I was going to have to rebuild it completely for my needs. In the end I just gave up :-)
<AyeRight> Ill even wipe your bum
<hamitron> hehe
<hamitron> at the time one place wanted 1.2ghz and better
<hamitron> the other place wanted 1.6ghz and better
<shauno> to be honest, that makes sense to me
<hamitron> and my main pc I was still using was 1ghz
<hamitron> :/
<TheOpenSourcerer> Our local hospice takes virtually any old IT gear and will either reuse or recycle.
<hamitron> so the poor people in africa wouldn't accept the stuff I use each day? :-o
<AyeRight> Those wee routers running tomato or openwrt are more useful than I thought.
<popey> its not that they wont accept it hamitron
<shauno> it's worth remembering that charities aren't skips.  they want stuff that they can use, not stuff that's going to cost them to dispose of
<TheOpenSourcerer> I gave them a shedload of old stuff recently. a 233Mhz Dell, a couple of 17" CRTs, a 450Mhz AMD box and some other stuff.
<popey> its that the people here who rebuild them refuse to take it usually
<hamitron> popey: I stand corrected, but it amounts to the same problem
<popey> sure
<AyeRight> They all just take the metals out the boxes and sell it off. So dont bother giving them anything
<AlanBell> afternoon all
<hamitron> at the end of the day, if nobody wants them, I can play with them
<TheOpenSourcerer> http://www.pth.org.uk/get-involved/recycling
<hamitron> I'm not so picky
<hamitron> :)
<safiyyah> popey you are here!
<TheOpenSourcerer> Afternoon AlanBell
<safiyyah> I have a broken machin :(
<AyeRight> No one wants african kids. And you dont want to play with them ;-)
<hamitron> "Drop off at our shops"
<hamitron> :/
<popey> safiyyah: i can't help right now, sorry
<safiyyah> AyeRight your comments about African children are offensive
<safiyyah> Popey, when shall I come back?
<AyeRight> Well I offended you. We all cant be happy.
<hamitron> haha AyeRight
<hamitron> I just realised what you meant
<AyeRight> I read plenty offence in here . Its irc. I ignore
<hamitron> what is offensive all depends on the views of those reading it also
<hamitron> unless it is just a rude attack
<safiyyah> anyone want to help me with this broken machine issue?
<AlanBell> with the recycling thing I was talking to remploy about their raceonline computers they are shipping with Ubuntu
<popey> safiyyah: tried in #ubuntu ?
<AyeRight> Irc is am open medium and always will be. I just farted. Did I offend you again?
<AlanBell> going to talk further with them about using the OEM tools
<hamitron> AlanBell: I think I'm going to have to accept, charities recycling have overtaken me in the specification of machines they want
<hamitron> :/
<ali1234> hamitron: do you want to buy some computer bits?
<AyeRight> Anyway. Using irc via a candybar phone is amusing. But I now need to ice my thumb.
<ali1234> actually you can have them for postage
<hamitron> ali1234: I have too many comps
<hamitron> haha
<hamitron> but ty
<AlanBell> safiyyah: will read back in a sec
<shauno> I'd give him a celeron just to be mean, but I don't want to know what it'd cost to ship from here
<ali1234> hamitron: the solution for that is to buy more
<hamitron> 23 comps :/
<ali1234> you know you want to buy this PII 300Mhz
<hamitron> plus spares
<hamitron> I got 2 comps with PII 333mhz
<hamitron> ;)
<ali1234> well then you should buy another one
<shauno> I've got a 2.6Ghz celeron that's rotting away because I don't need it for the dvdrw anymore
<hamitron> 2.6ghz? :|
<shauno> it's just a bad machine that's not worth throwing more money at :/
<hamitron> that could make a decent comp for a kid
<hamitron> :/
<safiyyah> AlanBell - it's here in short
<safiyyah>  have a broken machine which is not booting. I did the two recent updates that normally pop up. The error at bootup, I have typed it here: http://paste.ubuntu.com/628040/ and fdisk - l is returning: http://paste.ubuntu.com/628044/ anyone please?
<shauno> it does get turned on once in a blue moon, simply because it's the only box I've got that'll take ide disks
<hamitron> but as an example, I tried to give them PII 333mhz away to my cousins children, and they were turned away because they won't run GTA IV......... so tehy bought a PS3
<hamitron> and they are poor
<hamitron> :/
<ali1234> safiyyah: go back to previous kernel. hold left shift while booting and select the older one.
<ali1234> hamitron: those machines won't even run GTA 3
<hamitron> ali1234: I know
<jacobw> Or GTA 2 for that that matter..
<ali1234> it's going to cost you to get rid of them unless you can find some sucker on irc to take them off you
 * davmor2 prods czajkowski 
<hamitron> ali1234: point is, I can't even give them away to someone with no job
<hamitron> haha
<ali1234> why would anyone take something that is worth negative money?
<hamitron> they aren't negative
<ali1234> yes they are
<hamitron> I can get the council to take them
<shauno> I can think of a reason.  it involves being a compulsive hoarder tho ;)
<ali1234> at the very least you will have to use petrol to drive them to the tip
<ali1234> around here the council won't take computer waste
<jacobw> it'd be great for browsing the web with lynx, chatting with irssi and coding with vim :P
<ali1234> they will take some forms of large waste, for example you have to pay them Â£19 to take away a fridge
<hamitron> jacobw: I run firefox 3.6 remotely ok
<hamitron> ;)
<jacobw> wow
<hamitron> I may start taking a soldering iron to them
<hamitron> always wanted to try stuff
 * jacobw wonders if there's still CLI hold outs
<jacobw> (other than rms)
<hamitron> hold outs?
<jacobw> people who only use the CLI
 * hamitron does
<hamitron> haha
<jacobw> haha
<hamitron> I bet there are some in #minix too
<jacobw> yes
 * jacobw frowns
<hamitron> my 2nd newest machine is only a SiS 200mhz cpu
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> tbh, it is really good fun
<hamitron> you can do stuff to something like that, that you can't do to a new PC
<hamitron> live life on the edge \o/
<ali1234> anybody know a way to programmatically decompose multisheet xslx into a csv file?
<ali1234> hmm looks like it's xml in a zip container
<ali1234> yup
<ali1234> this should make my job a LOT easier :)
<ali1234> what is an .xml.rels file?
<jacobw> horrible :p
<ali1234> it looks like it's another xml file that lists what is embedded in what
<AlanBell> there should be a manifest I think
<AlanBell> you are in a maze of twisty passages which is OOXML
<ali1234> it looks fairly simple to me
<TheOpenSourcerer> ali1234: OOXML is anything but simple.
<AlanBell> for the specific task of splitting a sheet into separate sheets that is probably quite doable
<andylockran> hey guys
<AlanBell> if they contents are just numbers and text and sane stuff
<ali1234> i have a lot of sheets, each one is multiple worksheets. they all contain the same data but are not normalized
<andylockran> I could do with some advice. I'm trying to pick a CMS.
<ali1234> i want to break them down, normalize them, and then reassemble them
<andylockran> Ideally I'd like to be able to write widgets using php/python.. but the CMS needs to be non-tech user friendly.  Just wondering on people's thoughts...
<gr33npeace> hi all... I want to give FTP access to someone over SSH, and I want them to have read-only access to files on the webserver... can anyone give me some pointers?
<andylockran> gr33npeace: sftp?
<JGJones> Green Dragon! 1977
<gr33npeace> andylockran: yeah, got that bit sorted... just a little confused getting the permissions right for them
<andylockran> gr33npeace:
<JGJones>  Green Dragon! 1977
<andylockran> JGJones: what are you doing?
<gr33npeace> andylockran: we'll never know
<andylockran> gr33npeace: do you have the permissions on your webdirectory set sanely to begin with
<gr33npeace> andylockran: it's all owned by root
<andylockran> gr33npeace: I would then suggest you make a new user, and set the perms so that the user can only read the files, not write them
<TheOpenSourcerer> andylockran: I like Joomla! - it isn't too hard to learn for a non-geek (not as difficult as Drupal) but more flexible and easy to extend with modules etc. than Wordpress. IMHO ;-)
<gr33npeace> andylockran: OK, I'll give that a shot. thanks
<gr33npeace> andylockran: I had already done that, but I can see what was confusing me... the previous guy has given full rights to everyone
<JGJones> How do you start an application to be always maximised and/or have the window properties flagged - ie always display on visible desktop?
<JGJones> without needing to set it manually each time?
<gr33npeace> andylockran: thanks for the pointers
<s-fox> Back in a bit,  sooner than maybe expected :)
<dogmatic69_> o/
<d3ngar> Hey there!
<d3ngar> I have a problem with my flash player
<d3ngar> It just doesn't work :(
<dogmatic69_> who was it a few weeks back that had a script with rm -rf /$var and $var was empty?
<d3ngar> I removed it and reinstalled, but no cigar
<d3ngar> Any suggestions?
<d3ngar> I use the adobe flash plugin
<d3ngar> And also gnash
<d3ngar> Browser in question are both Chrome and The Fox
<d3ngar> Fiery that is
<d3ngar> Fox, I mean
<jussi> So... anyone here got kids? I have a kid question, about a UK product, if anyone feels in the mood to answer it. :=)
<jpds> You just asked a kid question.
<shauno> I'm a kid, fwiw
 * dogmatic69_ has a kid
<jussi> Hehe, I was hoping someone would say yes, then I could PM. And its a question about nappies...
<d3ngar> How can I get the network manager applet back?
<jussi> :D
<d3ngar> Mine just disappeared, gnome3?
<jussi> dogmatic69_: mind if I pm?
<dogmatic69_> k
<s-fox> AlanBell, your interview is live :-)
<s-fox> Thank you for doing one.
<AlanBell> ooh, thanks s-fox
<s-fox> Thank you again for agreeing to participate in the project AlanBell :)
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] The Art of Community: Communicating Clearly - http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/06/16/the-art-of-community-communicating-clearly/
<popey> Azelphur: do you ever use voice chat in steam?
<popey> bigcalm and I are trying to and it's failing
<popey> disconnects one of us when we try to start chat
<dwatkins> popey: running other apps which use the mic?
<popey> it works in steam
<popey> it disconnects
<popey> like we cant connect to eachother
<bigcalm> My connection with steam keeps dropping when trying to connect to popey
<dwatkins> I assume you can chat to each other, perhaps it's a NAT/firewall issues.
<popey> I've opened up the firewall ports it suggests
<bigcalm> As have I
<bigcalm> http://www.monctoncs.ca/index.php?option=com_kunena&func=view&catid=1&id=5619&Itemid=63
<bigcalm> Just tried the instructions in the last post on that page
<bigcalm> Nope
<bigcalm> GAH
<popey> http://www.resoo.org/docs/counterstrike/steam_ports.html
<popey> thats what I did
<popey> bah!
<bigcalm> Humbug?
<popey> yes
<popey> minecraft instead I think
<bigcalm> Heh
<popey> bigcalm: answered
<bigcalm> Not working then :(
<popey> bummer
<popey> time to blow stuff up in minecraft :D
<bigcalm> Have fun :)
<bigcalm> Didn't mean to close x-chat :)
<AlanBell> oggcamp venue was just on ITV
<AlanBell> with the rock choir thing
<daubers> lo
<s-fox> Hello daubers and daubers_
<s-fox> :)
<jacobw> o/
<daubers> s-fox: One of me is at work, the other isn't
<s-fox> I see, how is your evening going?
<jibadeeha> anyone here sync music between iphone4 and ubuntu and if so does it work well
<daubers> s-fox: Good :)
<daubers> Sat playing dumb xbox games at the mo
<daubers> how're you this evening?
<s-fox> I am okay thank you. I am configuring my new operating system.
<daubers> Ubuntu?
<s-fox> no, elementary os
<s-fox> or eOS for short ;)
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Andy Loughran] Choosing a CMS - http://zrmt.com/2011/06/16/choosing-a-cms/
<s-fox> Back in a short while.
<s-fox> Back.
#ubuntu-uk 2011-06-17
<andylockran> heya
<s-fox> Hello andylockran
<jimmie> Im not sure if anyone else uses Deluge, but does it always have to re-check files after a reboot, or is there a way to turn that off?
<ujjain> How many cities have subways in the UK?
<jimmie> As in, a station for trains underground
<jimmie> Or the overpriced, shite sandwich shop?
<jimmie> Also how is that relevant?
<jimmie> Even if it was noone here would know.
<ujjain> hehe.
<ujjain> I know for Holland.
<ujjain> we have 3 cities with a subway system.
<ujjain> oh 2
<jimmie> OK
<jimmie> But I still dont see the relevance of that fact
<jimmie> Are you a subway enthusiast?
<jimmie> Or just a common trainspotter?
<jimmie> Or a trainspotter dealing exclusively in subterranean trains?
<JGJones> ujjain, Newcastle have the Metro, parts of which is underground in the centre
<JGJones> Can't think of anywhere else that have an underground in UK (most use buses and trams sometimes)
<JGJones> Oh yeah...Glasgow have an underground too, 2nd in UK after London
<ujjain> JGJones: ah k :) London has.
<ujjain> ah ok.
<JGJones> Yeah London does have one (it's the first underground rail system in world)
<JGJones> and I think the largest too.
<JGJones> London even had an underground Post Office railways - small trains that hail letters etc, but that closed down
<JGJones> that's all I can think of...Newcastle, London and Glasgow.
<JGJones> any others I wouldn't know but I doubt it (the largest cities in UK is London followed by Glasgow then B'ham (which doesn't have an underground I think?)
<JGJones> Ah, just been informed Liverpool have one too - that make 4.
<JGJones> Any reason you're keen on underground systems? :-) (although if you want a BUSY one, go to Moscow)
<jimmie> He didnt tell me why he was interested in trains either
<jimmie> I can only assume hes gathering intelligence for the Dutch, and stage 1 of their invasion is to hit us where it hurts
<jimmie> Cheap public transport
<jimmie> Actually it must be stage two, stage one was sending in operatives disguised as tramps to piss everywhere.
<JGJones> they're more than welcome - there probably is a strike on the London Underground anyway :)
<JGJones> so all invasion would ground to a halt until it's sorted
<JGJones> by which there'll be another strike for some other little reason (and more pay of course)
<jimmie> Heh yeah
<JGJones> but on the plus side...don't the Dutch happen to brew decent beer?
<ujjain> right.
<ujjain> although Belgians are good too, but special beers.
<jimmie> Im not sure if anyone else uses Deluge, but does it always have to re-check files after a reboot, or is there a way to turn that off?
<Azelphur> jimmie: it only does that for me if something weird has happened
<jimmie> Oh
<jimmie> Well I just rebooted and that doesnt strike me as too odd so I dont know why it irks Deluge
<jimmie> erks?
<jimmie> No it must be irk
<jimmie> Erk is just plain silly.
<Azelphur> \o/
<DJones> Morning all
<hoover> morning all
<diplo> Morning all
<AlanBell> morning all
<JGJones> Top of the morning all!
<hoover> same to you Sir ;-)
<daubers_> Morning!
<MooDoo> hello all
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<hoover> mornin biggie, MooDoo
<bigcalm> Hi hoovie. Having a fun week?
<oimon> hi MooDoo, how was your desire custom rom exercise?
<MooDoo> oimon: success :D
<oimon> CM7?
<MooDoo> yeah :D
<oimon> does sense provide anything worthwhile?
<MooDoo> oimon: not tested everything though but at the moment it's all ok
<MooDoo> oimon: all i've noticed really is that's it's a lot quicker
<MooDoo> not really had time to play
<oimon> oh :)
<oimon> will prob do the CM7 despite htc's u-turn
<MooDoo> seriously?  they have decided to put it on?
<oimon> yep lol
<MooDoo> *sigh*
<bigcalm> By reducing some apps in sence aparently
<MooDoo> url?
<oimon> http://www.androidauthority.com/htc-plays-indian-giver-with-gingerbread-update-for-htc-desire-16910/
<MooDoo> ah well :D
<JGJones> CM7's worth it, it's at least faster to use :)
<JGJones> MooDoo, you can use gestures on the lockscreen to unlock directly into the app of your choice btw with CM7
<MooDoo> JGJones: oooooo :)
<JGJones> (ie I use S as a gesture to unlock straight to Shazam
<oimon> i like that idea JGJones
<MooDoo> czajkowski: you ok, just seen your tweet.....
<popey> oimon: "indian giver"!? I thought that was one of those phrases that was deemed somewhat offensive to native americans :S
<oimon> popey: huh?
<popey> 09:19:45 < oimon> http://www.androidauthority.com/htc-plays-indian-giver-with-gingerbread-update-for-htc-desire-16910/
 * popey shrugs
<oimon> ah lol no idea
<oimon> jsut copy and pasted from a tinyurl i was sent
<oimon> nobody checks url nowadays :D
<popey> heh
<oimon> unfortuantely htc may have already damaged their reputation a little
<MartijnVdS> With Sense?
<oimon> with the fiasco surrounding the GB for Desire, and previous phone support too
<oimon> Android phone makers promise toÂ update new devices up toÂ 18 monthsÂ after initial release
<popey> hahaha
<popey> they blew their reputation ages ago for me
<MartijnVdS> Guess why I only buy Google's own android phones
<JGJones> MartijnVdS, same here :)
<oimon> i think they make great handsets, like nokia used to
<MartijnVdS> (Magic, N1, next one will be NS or its replacement)
<JGJones> yeah but at least HTC is attempting to undo what they did - bootloader to be unlocked from now on etc.
<MartijnVdS> JGJones: sure but they still have this "Sense" poo on their devices
<MartijnVdS> I want stock android, like my N1 has
<JGJones> MartijnVdS, yup, but Virgin mobile (I think USA only) is now planning to sell Android phones, but all manfacturer skins to be removed.
<JGJones> ie no Sense.
<MartijnVdS> JGJones: My N1 works fine for the moment ;)
<JGJones> so you get a choice of whatever they sell, in stock Android.
<JGJones> same here...N1 nice enough so that there's really no need whatsoever for dual core or whatever really...
<JGJones> The only thing the N1 lack for me is a front camera.
<MartijnVdS> My touchscreen is getting a bit flaky
<MartijnVdS> (might be related to me holding it in my hand while running)
<JGJones> N1 does have a inferior touchscreen - doesn't do multitouch that well at all.
<oimon> MartijnVdS: i think sense was ahead of android for quite a while
<MartijnVdS> oimon: Sense is bad.
<oimon> then google added more features
<JGJones> I replace the stock launcher with LauncherPro
<shauno> feeling much better about my iphone reading this ;)
 * daubers really wants a galaxy s 2 :(
<oimon> shauno: what happens when apple release an ios update and don't include your phone?
<oimon> at least android owners can use custom mods
<daubers> oimon: Already happening. Some features of IOS5 not available to iPhone 3/3GS
<shauno> about the same as after android's promised 18 months, I assume.  you're on your own :)
<oimon> shauno: android owners can fall back on custom roms though
<oimon> whicih are often better than the real thing
<JGJones> I've got a HTC Magic - it's pretty old - it runs CM6
<wintellect> Mornin all
<shauno> there's not much stopping you installing mods on ios either
<oimon> i didn't realise that was possible
<oimon> due to closed source nature of ios
<JGJones> CM6 is based on Froyo (2.2) while the Android on the HTC Magic by default was 1.6 with no upgrades so there's benefit to custom roms.
<shauno> the OS itself isn't closed.  just the UI layer
<shauno> darwin sources show up about as timely as google's source releases.  which isn't setting a very high bar
<JGJones> There's a source for the iOS kernel?
<shauno> bizarely, it's the same sourcetree as the desktop kernel
<daubers> JGJones: _some_ of the iOS kernel
<DJones> JGJones: How do you find CM6 on the magic, I was tempted to try that on an old Magic I've got at home but thought the processor/memory might limit it quite a bit
<JGJones> DJones, Mine is actually the Vodafone model, which have half the memory of a standard HTC Magic actually I think.
<JGJones> It's not fast
<JGJones> but it works :)
<DJones> JGJones: Mine would be the same vodaphone model
<JGJones> not much difference speed-wise from Android 1.6 though...it's a slow phone.
<JGJones> DJones, however I *think* Vodafone now have an upgrade for the HTC Magic?
<JGJones> I'm sure I could look for a more optimised faster kernel for the HTC Magic, but I don't use the phone - my son does so I'm not fussy.
<DJones> JGJones: I'd be surprised at that, last I heard, they had no plans to upgrade it to persuade people to upgrade to other phones
<JGJones> DJones, yeah...hence why I slapped on CM6 :)
<czajkowski> moodoo yup bf in hospital not me
<JGJones> czajkowski, hope he's OK
<czajkowski> yup tonsil out
<AlanBell> so the tonsil is now free to persue a life of it's own
<AlanBell> having had a jonectomy
<JGJones> heh
<wintellect> czajkowski: just the one tonsil out? I thought they'd take both out?!?
<MooDoo> czajkowski: ok thanks, hope he's ok
<MooDoo> as much as you can be having tonsils out
<JGJones> wintellect, maybe they both didn't get on so one had to leave ;)
<AlanBell> I am pretty hopeless with biology, wrong kind of scale for me
<popey> and there's no man page
<AlanBell> physics OK, Chemistry - OK if I can work it out using physics, biology - too big
<wintellect> JGJones: lol
<AlanBell> anything between the size of an atom and a star isn't really my thing
<JGJones> AlanBell, them new-fangled TV with a lettered board and something called Interweb is damn confusing, but you're doing well ;-)
<AlanBell> JGJones: it is all just a bunch of electrons
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: and semiconductors
<AlanBell> yup, good solid physics there (with a dash of yummy quantum)
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: so.. you're subscribed to sixtysymbols and periodicvideos on youtube? :)
<DJones> Unusual design choice from SOny for the S2 model http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CMp-48J88FA&feature=player_embedded
<oimon> DJones: reminds me of the litl netbook. litl.com
<davmor2> morning all
<oimon> saw a new message on facebook about a new uupc podcast...got excited, then realised it was last weeks uupc :(
<popey> yeah
<popey> for some reason facebook is rubbish at picking up the rss feed
<oimon> weird
<MooDoo> for some reason faceboko is rubbish :D
<oimon> doesn't affect other people though :P
<oimon> hmm. spent ages shoehorning lubuntu onto my eee and a week later i'm tempted to put mint 11 on it
<popey> http://identi.ca/notice/76519429   /    http://twitter.com/#!/uupc/status/81666594174017536
<popey> :D
<oimon> woo
<popey> yes. Woo!
<MooDoo> awesome
<dwatkins> wow, minedroid too, whatever next?
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<MooDoo> mornoing brobostigon
<dwatkins> hiya brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo and dwatkins
<BigRedS> quiet today
 * BigRedS hears an echo
<popey>  ____
<popey> | __ )  ___   ___
<popey> |  _ \ / _ \ / _ \
<bigcalm> Baa?
<BigRedS> Rnn?
<bigcalm> Ah
<MooDoo> Boo
<MooDoo> ?
<BigRedS> Perhaps
<bigcalm> iain@revo:~$ figlet Boo
<bigcalm> The program 'figlet' can be found in the following packages:
<bigcalm>  * toilet
<bigcalm>  * figlet
<bigcalm> What the heck is toilet?
<BigRedS> : Unable to locate package toilet :(
<BigRedS> Oh. this is a sarge box
<bigcalm> Heh
<bigcalm> http://packages.ubuntu.com/hardy/toilet
<bigcalm> OH MY!
<bigcalm> http://screenshots.debian.net/package/toilet
<bigcalm> The rainbow colour option is --gay
<popey> it is
<BigRedS> haha!
<bigcalm> It's very happy
<davmor2> bigcalm, BigRedS, MooDoo: all wrong the correct answer isn't baa, rnn or boo, it's simply Fail!
<hoover> lol
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Andy Loughran] Birmigham and Solihull Rugby [Sponsorship Opportunity] - http://zrmt.com/2011/06/17/birmigham-and-solihull-rugby-sponsorship-opportunity/
<Myrtti> lol-moment of the day: http://www.flickr.com/photos/myrtti/5841726906/
<Myrtti> *boggle*
<Myrtti> was just walking from the trainstation to the doctors and happened to look at jewellers window
<Myrtti> I can only assume there is some purpose in the world for that ring, but I've not figured it out
<DJones> Myrtti: Is that a sterling price? I've lost track of which country you're in
<DJones> Although, whether its sterling/dollars/euros, its still silly money
<popey> does it rule them all?
<popey> Jabber \o/
<MattJ> Jabber \o/
<JGJones> That ring doesn't seem as bad as being informed that a single person is buying a 91 million dollar house just for herself. https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/The_Manor_(Los_Angeles,_California)
<JGJones> space for 100 cars. For a person.
<JGJones> daft.
<MooDoo> JGJones: f1 ownswers gaughter?
<MooDoo> JGJones: owners daughter
<JGJones> same surname so I assume so.
<MooDoo> yeah it's her
<Myrtti> DJones: euros
<Myrtti> JGJones: a house you can live in, you can't accidentally misplace it or put it through a garbage disposal, or wave your hand and it goes just like that
<Myrtti> even if the house burns, the lot is still there
<JGJones> Myrtti, aye that's true. A fool and his money are soon parted...
<popey> nice house
<JGJones> Not my style.
<JGJones> But it'll be great for epic parties for sure ;-)
<Myrtti> and I thought my first engagement ring was expensive, was about 100â¬ back in 1999
<Myrtti> (Finns have plain bands, for both)
<daubers> Myrtti: The engagement ring I got my wife was Â£35 off ebay.....
<Myrtti> looks like the retail price of the ring is 316â¬ now
<DJones> JGJones: This sounds almost as bad as that house http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1346857/Britains-expensive-caravan-Which-550-000-includes-kitchen-Italy-iPhone-controlled-heating-Jacuzzi-just-dont-try-taking-anywhere.html
<Myrtti> I've come to the conclusion that money is the root of all evil
<AlanBell> I always thought it was cats
<DJones> Myrtti: Its not so much money that is the root of all evil, I find its the love of money that is more the problem
<JGJones> no...it's brussels sprout
<AlanBell> cats eating sprouts
<JGJones> AlanBell, +1
<webpigeon> DJones: when a link takes up three lines, you need to rethink your url naming scheme :P
<webpigeon> oh it's daily mail, makes sense then :P
<JGJones> webpigeon, it was 6 lines for me :)
<JGJones> 1078x768 screen
<webpigeon> even worse :P
<AlanBell> fits on one line
<DJones> Its only 3/4 of a line for me (1920x1024) screen
<popey> 80x25 \o/
<webpigeon> popey: phone?
<popey> nope, pc
<popey> just keeping irc over here, nice and quietly
<JGJones> DOS terminal :P
<popey> black chat
<popey> as some call it
<davmor2> Myrtti: No surely Evil is the root of all evil and money just manifests it
<JGJones> availablity of resource is the root of money
<Myrtti> I reiterate
<Myrtti> humans are root of all evil
<JGJones> But as AlanBell point out, let's not forget the cats.
<davmor2> Myrtti: No I've seen evil animals out in the wild they are not at all pleasant :D
<gord> cats are the root of all cuddly
<bigcalm> \o/
<JGJones> The Egyptians knew what they was about
<davmor2> gord: that's why they are evil,  you can't stay mad at a cat
<webpigeon> I can't find the "evil" button on the calcuator so can't calucate it's root.
<webpigeon> gord++
<gord> davmor2, no thats just a facet of their amazingness
<davmor2> gord: haha
<shauno> a rather cunning defence mechanism
<davmor2> gord: we can't have pets so we pay for a Cat cabiin at the cats protection center :)  Oh that and pay for some big puddy tats at the WHF too
<gord> davmor2, awesome :D
<oimon> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/news/8582051/SOCA-warns-broadband-users-over-spy-virus-infections.html
<oimon> i wonder if they will be any difference 1 month later
<MooDoo> davmor2: howdy
<davmor2> oimon: I'm miffed now I'm not one of the 1500
<MooDoo> davmor2: i might be, i've not been home yet
<davmor2> MooDoo: Howdo lad
<diplo> Wrong place to ask but worth a shot, anyone recommend any free windows backup software
<diplo> Think my work lappy hdd is failing
<MooDoo> diplo: can't you use synctool?
<davmor2> diplo: you can use clonzilla to back up the whole drive
<MooDoo> diplo: sorry synctoy
<diplo> I was debating clonezilla, will look at synctoy MooDoo forgot about that
<diplo> Suppose I'll take a little backup of files and then image it
<diplo> Work won't buy me a new drive till it fails :/
<davmor2> diplo: hahaha standard operating procedure I've lost all my work so you can't have the report
<diplo> I'm just committing more often than I normally do at the moment
<diplo> :)
<diplo> Like to replace the current with an ssd, will have to wait and see I guess
<popey> \o/ ssd
<MooDoo> o/ ssd :)
<webpigeon> \o/ jab.. ssd
<Myrtti> does anyone know if Nintendo 3DS power supplies are sold separately at all? I'm trying to look for one (with Euro prods, but that's irrelevant because I seem to fail google-fu even without mentioning euro on the search)
<JGJones> I'm just playing with the cherokee webserver...it look pretty good actually
<DJones> Myrtti: This type of thing (but you want the 2 pin prongs) http://www.amazon.co.uk/Products-Nintendo-Supply-Charger-Adapter/dp/B004TKPI6I
<gord> Myrtti, they use the same as the dsi
<bigcalm> Myrtti: http://www.google.co.uk/search?aq=2&oq=nintendo+3ds+power&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=nintendo+3ds+power+supply#q=nintendo+3ds+power+supply&hl=en&safe=off&prmd=ivns&source=lnms&tbm=shop&ei=_lv7TdbiC4SXhQew1IC1Aw&sa=X&oi=mode_link&ct=mode&cd=5&ved=0CB0Q_AUoBA&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=7b2359ad80d94401&biw=1282&bih=848
<gord> Myrtti, so just look for dsi ones
<Myrtti> gord: oh? well that's good
<Myrtti> I was getting worried I've lost my touch
<DJones> Myrtti: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Nintendo-Mains-Supply-Charger-Adapter/dp/B0027PA2EA
<bigcalm> Myrtti: http://www.gamersgear.com/nintendo_dsi_&_dsi_xl_&_3ds_mains_ac_power_supply_charger_adapter
<DJones> bigcalm: I suspect thats the same product I'd just picked on, the amazon page I linked goes to gamesgear
<JGJones> Myrtti, you should search for Chuck Norris Nintendo 3DS instead. It powers the sun. Therefore no worries about power supplies.
<Myrtti> JGJones: :-D
<bigcalm> Hehe
<gord> i should pick up a second dock for my 3ds. i love that thing
<Myrtti> well if the DSi one fits then it's ok, I can go grab one from the shelf
<gord> sooo convenient to just throw the 3ds in to the dock
<Myrtti> yeah it is nice
<Myrtti> I don't really need 3DS but my old device was pink and huge
<Myrtti> the original DS, could clob small animals to death with it
<Myrtti> not that I tried
<diplo> Want to get a 3DS for my son for his birthday
<Myrtti> nicer to play Layton on smaller device :->
<gord> my cat is obsessed with my 3ds, she just stares at anything thats 3d on it
<diplo> Hope they have come down by then
<diplo> A little at least :)
<Myrtti> I got mine from Stansted airport :->
<Myrtti> 158Â£
<gord> not bad, they go for Â£170-180 normally
<gord> price is supposed to rise at some point
<davmor2> gord: haha
<Myrtti> well I got it 80â¬ cheaper than I would have here
<shauno> speaking of stanstead, what's the easiest airport to fly into to reach oxford by public transport?
<AlanBell> heathrow I should think
<AlanBell> but there is probably a coach from oxford to other airports
<Laney> london oxford airport!
<shauno> heh, have a friend who did his training there
<JGJones> bugger...what's the quick way to reset the root password of a mysql server?
<JGJones> on ubuntu
<webpigeon> JGJones: you might be able to do it using dpkg-reconfigure or there is a guide on the mysql site http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.5/en/resetting-permissions.html
<webpigeon> JGJones: even better, https://help.ubuntu.com/community/MysqlPasswordReset
<JGJones> webpigeon, thanks
<Catbuskris_> anyone able to offer wisdom on why my internal speaker does not want to play nice?
<Catbuskris_> i can't get a whisper out of it
<Catbuskris_> with echo -e "\a"
<Catbuskris_> i had wanted to make a fortran95 beep, but let alone that...
<andylockran> howdy
<andylockran> I'm running a server-server vpn.. that works great.. connecting a 10.0.0.0/8 subnet to a 192.0.0.0/8 subnet.. that works fine.  however, every machine also connects to their own
<gord> Catbuskris_, are you sure you have one?
<Catbuskris_> urm yes, i just heard a beep with the program "beep", but why would echo not work?
<andylockran> argh.. I can;t even explain my problem
<andylockran> is there a way to detect traffic passing through a server on a subnet.. and block it?
<andylockran> rather than interface
<gord> Catbuskris_, because echo just produces a character, which has to be interpreted by your terminal emulator, which may or may not support talking to your internal speaker
<Catbuskris_> aha! reassuring, thanks a lot
<shauno> isn't \a a null? I thought the bell was ^g
<shauno> oh, apparently \a is the same thing.  didn't know that
<shauno> ^a is a null.  silly me expected some correlation
<Catbuskris_> how can i get my speaker to listen to terminal, is that possible?
<shauno> it's the other way around.  the terminal has to handle the bell
<shauno> is it gnome-terminal?  it should be in preferences->sound->system bell
<HarryHaaren> Catbuskris: If it should be making noise but isn't perhaps check that "beep" isn't muted in "alsamixer". I always make sure it is :D
<Catbuskris_> i'm in ubuntu 11.04, so i guess it's gnome, or unity... i don't really know if they are mutually exclusive
<Catbuskris_> but as you might know, "preferences" isn't so easy to find, and alsamixer wasn't installed...
<shauno> heh, yeah.  preferences has been cunningly disguised as an off button
<Catbuskris_> odd eh?  anyway there is no system bell to be found in sound
<shauno> hm.  there used to be :(
<Catbuskris_> 11.04 is horribleÂ¬
<AlanBell> Catbuskris_: when you log in you can select classic mode using the menu at the bottom of the screen if you are not keen on unity
<Catbuskris> it worked :) thanks
<AlanBell> try padsp echo -e "\a"
<AlanBell> which should route it through pulse audio
<shauno> it sends it thru the soundcard rather than the feeper?
<AlanBell> ah, yeah, it might do
<AlanBell> so the beeper isn't attached to a soundcard as such?
<shauno> usually the internal beep is a bios function.  which is why the bios likes to use it when it needs to complain about life at power-on
<shauno> that said, I've no idea if XBell() still uses the internal one anymore
<AlanBell> that is done with the pcspkr kernel module
<Catbuskris> AlanBell, your suggestion gives silence as well :(
<DJones> Hmmh, walking on a glass floor, hanging off the side extending the floor over thin air on the 8th floor as dusk falls isn't a good idea
<DJones> Wrong channel
 * davmor2 prods czajkowski for not being online
<Catbuskris> ...mc? defintely wrong channel
<ali1234> has anyone got a cheat sheet for writing office macros in vba?
<BigRedS> the record button? :)
<ali1234> no
<ali1234> just no
<ali1234> i need to know how to define functions, arrays etc
<DJones> Catbuskris: Yep
<ali1234> vba has the weirdest syntax i have ever seen
<ali1234> it makes perl look good
<HarryHaaren> DJones: I read that twice to see if I could make sense of it! :D
<BigRedS> perl has awesome syntax. It's everyone else who gets it wrong
<HarryHaaren> BigRedS: Is that Larry Wall's nick? :P
<dogmatic69> how can i change the host name? ive done sudo hostname <new>
<dogmatic69> and rebooted, what is the place to change it
<DJones> !hostname
<lubotu3> Use hostname <somehostname> to set the hostname, or to do it permanently: edit /etc/hosts to include BOTH the old and new hostname and then change /etc/hostname to the new one. WARNING! Make sure that your current hostname and /etc/hosts match, otherwise sudo may not work properly.
<DJones> dogmatic69: Does that info help
<dogmatic69> DJones: done
<dogmatic69> but not working, ive done this many times before
<BigRedS> when you reboot, does /etc/hostname still show the old hostname?
<BigRedS> or still contain, rather
<dogmatic69> hold on...
<dogmatic69> ive never changed hostname
<dogmatic69>  /etc/hostname that is
<BigRedS> oh, you need to do that
<BigRedS> otherwise on boot it'll have the old hostname
<BigRedS> :)
<dogmatic69> but ive never done it :S and ive got 5 boxes with different hostnames all cloned from one
<BigRedS> that's the file the system asks to find out the hostname.
<BigRedS> ooh, that's a bit weird
<BigRedS> dd-style clone or someting more intelligent?
<dogmatic69> because /etc/hostname has ip-x.x.x.x
<dogmatic69> i just cloned it from something that does not have hostname ip-x.x.x.x
<BigRedS> the downside of dd-style cloning is that the hostname and ip are preserved, I'd expect more intelligent things to automagically account for these
<BigRedS> yeah, but how did you clone thenm?
<dogmatic69> :S i dont think you want to know
<dogmatic69> tar.gz / with a few excludes
<BigRedS> ah, cool
<madlatvian> hello pome
<dogmatic69> and then untar'ed it to /
<BigRedS> I'm a fan of hackish solutions :)
<dogmatic69> hehe
<dogmatic69> got it off the ubuntu forums, works a charm
<BigRedS> that is weird, if you included /etc/hostname
<madlatvian> hello from Aus
<dogmatic69> ye, let me find my notes...
<BigRedS> (and it's really not that bad a way of doing it. It's a common way to do dr backups)
<dogmatic69> BigRedS: /etc/rc.local :)
<dogmatic69> found my notes
<dogmatic69> BigRedS: is that the wrong way? it works fine like that
<BigRedS> oh, you put a change-hostname script in there?
<dogmatic69> adding 127.0.0.1 <hostname> in /etc/hosts fixes the sudo errors mentioned in the bot tell thing
<dogmatic69> just hostname <name
<dogmatic69> >
<gord> really wish websites had a "remember me" option after you log in, that would be nice
<brobostigon> gord: some do, identi.ca does, so does FB, so does twitter, so does sixxs.net,
<gord> websites i go to then
<brobostigon>  iamsure, many more do, aswell.
<BigRedS> Doesn't firefox let you effectively do that?
<brobostigon> so does chromium,
<popey> AlanBell: tuxradar podcast are doing the "you dare us" thing I suggested to them :D
<popey> they're going to attempt to install Linux with their eyes shut
<Azelphur> popey: nothing special, I know a blind lady who uses Linux and android :)
<popey> did she install linux herself?
<Azelphur> not sure
<Azelphur> probably had aid, I know she makes heavy use of screen readers so I'd guess they wasn't installed early on
<Azelphur> although she does have a brail display too, could have used that + an ncurses installer or something
<BigRedS> I do wonder with that - might they miss normal mechanisms blind people have come to expect, and instead fail to use whatever they perceive as more sensible?
<BigRedS> I've no idea if that'd be a problem
<popey> there's quite a few bugs in the gui installer
<popey> which would make it near impossible to install for a blind person alone
<popey> (on Ubuntu)
<AlanBell> there is a plan to fix that for oneiric
<AlanBell> Azelphur: try it
<AlanBell> there is an Accessibility Q&A session in #ubuntu-classroom and #ubuntu-classroom-chat in 30 minutes or so
<AlanBell> with Pendulum
<Pendulum> AlanBell: actually, now
<AlanBell> oh, right now then
 * AlanBell nearly missed it
<AlanBell> it would be great if more people could pile over to #ubuntu-classroom and #ubuntu-classroom-chat to ask questions about accessibility
 * AlanBell has to go do kids stuff
<shauno> with their eyes shut?  just turn off the monitor.  no cheating :)
<AlanBell> shauno: http://www.theopensourcerer.com/2010/08/13/going-headless/
<AlanBell> http://www.theopensourcerer.com/2011/04/03/jamming-in-the-uk/
<shauno> AlanBell: yeah, remember talking about that before, when I managed to install osx without a screen
<shauno> I still think it's a bug that their 'use the external screen' button doesn't work until the OS is up, but that's way OT here.  it was an enlightening experience tho
<GentileBen> shauno: it's a feature, not a bug.
<GentileBen> External monitors done right.
<shauno> no it's not :/  the button should do what it claims to
<shauno> the one thing I did notice (doing the same 'experiment' on osx) was that the page that just gives you a progress bar, was completely nonsensical
<shauno> I rebooted several times at that point to figure out what I'd missed.  I hadn't.  it was just speaking gobeldygook
<shauno> interesting to see how the smallest hiccup like that can render the whole process frustrating.  it'd be like if the installer just turned the screen off for half of the gui install
<shauno> not even slackware would ship that :/
<hamitron> leave slackware alone ;/
<gord> you just can't say that anymore without looking like that guy from youtube
<czajkowski> davmor2: meh
<AlanBell> o/ czajkowski
<davmor2> czajkowski: Meh back atcha
 * nigelb waves to davmor2 
<davmor2> hello nigelb
<czajkowski> AlanBell: bumped into the other alan on the tube
<bigcalm> Davis?
<AlanBell> bigcalm: Lord
<AlanBell> czajkowski: London is a small place
<davmor2> bigcalm: you really need to direct that at czajkowski hers not hot on the uptake today bless.
<AlanBell> czajkowski: all back at home now?
<davmor2> czajkowski: was it a Popey?
<czajkowski> no or I'd have tabbed popey
<czajkowski> but cant tab the other alan
<AlanBell> davmor2: my partner in crime
<czajkowski> AlanBell: in E&C aye
<davmor2> czajkowski: it was Alan Sugar
 * czajkowski kicks davmor2 
<czajkowski> not
<czajkowski> today
<czajkowski> davmor2:
<davmor2> czajkowski: :( here have a hug
<XenoPhoenix> If KMS is enabled, I have green output on HDMI till I unplug and replug the TV (goes green again if i turn off and on the TV again), disabling modesetting using i915.modeset=0 fixes this issue however it is not a solution as it also disables graphical acceleration. This only occured with natty, no problems before upgrading, Any ideas?
<AlanBell> XenoPhoenix: maybe try asking in #ubuntu-x (and wait, it isn't a very active channel)
<XenoPhoenix> AlanBell: Ah ok thanks, I didn't know that channel existed :)
<pete_> hey guys
<cbx33> howz it all going?
<cbx33> anyone used vmware on ubuntu11.04?
<ali1234> iron python \o/
<Azelphur> WHO ARE YOU AND WHAT DID YOU DO WITH ALI1234
<ali1234> "how to script excel without going insane"
<Azelphur> that's better :p
<ali1234> watching excel churn away while running a script on multiple workbooks with multiple worksheets is quite amusing
<MattJ> Anyone know a good PPA for up-to-date ffmpeg builds? (for 10.04)
<wintellect> anyone use choqok?
<cbx33> so ali1234 what advantages do i get with ironpython?
<DeathSling> I really, really need some help with a virtio disk for a ubuntu guest, is there anybody about who can help?
<DeathSling> Oh, and 'Hi all'    :)
<BigRedS> DeathSling: I probably can't, but we'll never know who can if you don't tell us what the problem is :)
<DeathSling> I created it using virt-install and it wasn't using virtio drivers so I've changed them in the guests /etc/fstab to vda and changed the guest xml to virtio. It's runs but disk speed seems even slower and I can make it crash by doing task intensive stuff
<DeathSling> without the virtio method i was getting io disk speed of about 5Mbs/5MBs (not sure what it's measued in!)
<DeathSling> These are sata disks in a 1+0 raid array. SHOULD be much faster. The really anoying thing is I've managed to get a windows guest running with virtio drivers and it works better than my lovely ubuntu server.  And that should NEVER happen!
<DeathSling> I'm guessing that I can't/shouldn't swear here so.... ARRRRGGG feel my sweary rage!!
<DeathSling> I feel a bit better now. Thank you for letting me get that of my chest.
<DeathSling> I'm also signed into a libvirt chat, but nobody ever responds.  Admittedly I've only tried a fw times now but... it's really quiet there
<DeathSling> ...and here
<BigRedS> It *is* almost midnight....
<BigRedS> :)
<DeathSling> ah yes, that is true
<BigRedS> but, rather predictably. I'm afrid i'm of little use
<BigRedS> I almost exclusively do real hardware...
#ubuntu-uk 2011-06-18
<DeathSling> like what?
<BigRedS> not virtualisation
<BigRedS> :)
<DeathSling> what do you do with the hardware, do you build machines for people?
<BigRedS> ohhhh
<BigRedS> I work in a data centre, running servers
<DeathSling> cool
<DeathSling> i work at a printers doing time critical stuff
<DeathSling> hence why failover-able servers are wanted
<BigRedS> ahhh
<BigRedS> what sort of printers? I used to work in a very slapdash digital print firm
<DeathSling> which is super cool because I get to play
<DeathSling> digital print
<DeathSling> I started of as a printer, mainly xerox's
<BigRedS> you used to be a printer? :)
<BigRedS> I'm trying to think if I ever knew any of our competition, but I don't think I did. I never really got interested inthe print side of ot..
<DeathSling> yep, I eat paper and **** out copies!
<DeathSling> ;)
<BigRedS> haha
<DeathSling> Where based in croydon
<BigRedS> ooh. we were in Wandsworth. Well, a few places. Service Graphics
<DeathSling> "we are" based, rather
<DeathSling> Liberty Services, used to be Liberty Printers and they bought Fine-Point who I started with.  I know, I know, I made it all complicated like  ;)
<BigRedS> haha
<DeathSling> Havn't heard of them, but then there are a lot of printers around
<BigRedS> we were hilariously complicated. different companies, trading names etc.
<BigRedS> yeah, I was told we were the biggest, but in an industry of tiny firms
<DeathSling> ...we also got Liberty Digital....
<BigRedS> Hah, we were Service Graphics, Jupiter Display, Scanachrome, Service Exhibitions, B&S Graphics, PR Exhibitions and at least another one whose name escapes me now
<DeathSling> what do datacenters actually consist of?  Is it just fileservers of databases?
<BigRedS> well, we sell dedicated servers, so most are web/mail/db in one box
<BigRedS> we've a few clusters, with dedicated db & web machines, a few dedicated mail boxes for other people
<DeathSling> "or" databases, god my typing, no wonder my scripts never work first time
<BigRedS> haha
<DeathSling> do the clusters use a shared file system like ocfs2?
<DeathSling> shared storage?
<BigRedS> it varies :)
<BigRedS> usually they're paired with ocfs
<BigRedS> so two web machines with ocfs documentroots, two db machines with either ocfs /var/lib/mysql or mysql rep
<BigRedS> some a mix
<DeathSling> how do you share there storage, I've been using DRBD
<BigRedS> drbd for the pairs
<BigRedS> nfs for bigger groups normally
<DeathSling> I've never looked at nfs
<BigRedS> It's wonderfully simple
<DeathSling> does nfs require a shared storage like a san or am I missing the point?
<BigRedS> no, it's way more basic than that
<BigRedS> you just 'export' a directory from one machine, and mount it on the other
<BigRedS> there's no (required) security built in
<BigRedS> but using it with kerberos is quite popular
<DeathSling> is security a bit of an issue with it?
<DeathSling> silly queston, don't worry
<BigRedS> Yeah, by default :)
<BigRedS> we tend to use it on private nets
<DeathSling> by private, do you mean no internet access?
<BigRedS> yeah
<BigRedS> well
<BigRedS> a net that can't route to or be routed to from the internet
<BigRedS> the machines themselves have one interface on the internet and one on the privat enet
<DeathSling> gotcha
<DeathSling> ohh, excuse my ignorance on this matter but does that mean there could be an attack through one of the users machines?
<BigRedS> not really - there's no users :)
<BigRedS> one of my favourite things about being in a data centre :)
<hamitron> no dumb..errr...people
<hamitron> ;)
<hamitron> well, less
<hamitron> ;)
<DeathSling> hehe
<BigRedS> yeah, it's awesome. Fewer people, more computers. That can only be a good direction to move in
<DeathSling> I run around 30 idiots...err members of staff
<hamitron> BigRedS: add a few pole dancers and you have a win
<hamitron> ;/
<DeathSling> :)
<hamitron> I reckon that would be a good marketing idea
<BigRedS> haha!
<hamitron> "only datacentre with....."
<DeathSling> that would be a good way of getting around paying us properly
<BigRedS> haha
<BigRedS> argh. I've just remembered I've an early start in the morning, I'm orf to sleep
<hamitron> :)
<DeathSling> good talking to you, nice night's sleep  :)
<hamitron> reckon I should get coffee
<hamitron> need something to comfort me to sleep
<DeathSling> mmmm  coffee
<BigRedS> haha, I'm getting further from the point where coffee before bed is a good idea, fortunately :)
<BigRedS> well, trying to. I keep giving in and having caffeinated stuff when I don't really need or want the caffeine
<hamitron> the only reason I can think to not have coffee
<hamitron> my bitcoin mining is really heating this room up
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> k, brb
<hamitron> :)
<zaahir> hello ! How are you ?!!
<zaahir> some body on birmingham ?
<hamitron> on?
<zaahir> lol
<zaahir> i am french
<zaahir> at Birmingham ?
<zaahir> or to Brummagem ?
<hamitron> not sure, I know I am not
<hamitron> :)
<zaahir> lol okay thank you
<zaahir> we can speak off topic here ?
<hamitron> it is a fairly casual room, yeh
<hamitron> but also dead at this time of night ;)
<zaahir> ok
<zaahir> where are you ?
<hamitron> I'm in East Yorkshire, England
<zaahir> oh okay
<zaahir> border sea ?
<hamitron> yep
<zaahir> cool
<zaahir> are you fisher ?
<hamitron> no :) our fishing industry has died
<zaahir> oh okay
<zaahir> you are born in yorkshire ?
<hamitron> yeh, why?
<hamitron> ;/
<zaahir> lol just question
<hamitron> I don't travel either, haaha
<zaahir> lol never ?!
<hamitron> I could point out France on a map though ;)
<hamitron> well
<zaahir> okay
<hamitron> I've left Yorkshire maybe 10 times
<zaahir> okay
<zaahir> for you, what is the best food of the UK ?
<hamitron> erm
<hamitron> probably a Sunday Roast
<hamitron> :D
<zaahir> what this ? can you give me an adresse website picture please ?
<hamitron> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunday_roast
<zaahir> are you joking ?!!!
<zaahir> oh sorry
<hamitron> no...
<hamitron> hehe
<hamitron> I like fried breakfast too
<zaahir> oh no
<zaahir> please
<hamitron> what do you eat? :)
<zaahir> http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=fr&xhr=t&q=kighafarz&cp=5&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&biw=1280&bih=573&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi
<zaahir> and
<zaahir> http://www.google.co.uk/search?um=1&hl=fr&biw=1280&bih=573&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=cr%C3%AApes+bretonnes&oq=cr%C3%AApes+bretonnes&aq=f&aqi=g1&aql=&gs_sm=e&gs_upl=43108l48629l0l16l16l0l8l8l0l232l1414l1.4.3l8
<hamitron> is that raw meat?
<hamitron> that 2nd one looks like pancakes
<zaahir> no
<zaahir> yes but different
<zaahir> it's no raw meat
<hamitron> ok :)
<zaahir> it's different pancakes
<hamitron> I don't really experiment with lots of food
<hamitron> but I think I am in the minority
<zaahir> just bread and water abd you can go on the road of the life ! lol
<zaahir> s>abd>and
<hamitron> anyways
<hamitron> nice meeting you
<hamitron> but I'm afraid I have to get some sleep
<hamitron> o/
<zaahir> oh yes !
<zaahir> of course no problem
<zaahir> beautiful night !
<AlanBell> morning all
<danfish> morning
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<brobostigon> morning danfish :)
<danfish> o/
<brobostigon> o/
<danfish> I go away for a week in the country with minimal access to phones/t'internet and get back to a complete load of fail :(
<brobostigon> eeeek
<danfish> VPS crashed, a partner a work has resigned, and knackered back packing car
<danfish> still, could be worse - mustn't grumble (too much)
<brobostigon> ohwell.
<danfish> right, time to take the little fishies swimming. Laters
<brobostigon> :)
<kvarley> Is there a way to send a notification to another machine on my network. So for example I want to send a notification to my main computer with some information confirming that a cron job has been run on a server.
<kvarley> It just needs to be plain text, can you do that?
<StevenR> kvarley: email?
<kvarley> StevenR: My email? Or are you saying send an email when the jobs done?
<StevenR> sending an email when the job is done?
<kvarley> Not what I wanted really
<kvarley> I think I may have found something here
<StevenR> well... ok... what do you want to happen when the job is complete?
<kvarley> You know the system notifications? Like on messaging and stuff, they pop up saying stuff and then go away? Well I want to send one of those from the server to my desktop computer.
<StevenR> ahhh
<StevenR> my brain is screaming that dbus is the way to do that... but I'm not sure precisely how
<kvarley> StevenR: Thanks for the suggestion anyway =)
<kvarley> StevenR: I think you are on to something with dbus
<kvarley> StevenR: http://cweiske.de/tagebuch/DBus%20notify-send%20over%20network.htm
<StevenR> kvarley: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NotifyOSD might help... or you could have a jabber sender (i.e. the cronjob logs into a jabber server and sends a message)
<StevenR> and you use a client whereever you are that picks that up?
<toast> \nwrug
<kvarley> StevenR: Got it working with notify-send and ssh
<StevenR> kvarley: woot
<kvarley> StevenR: Indeed. For every problem there is a solution xD Linux has it all.
<kvarley> Say I have log.txt, from terminal how can I append a line of text to the file? Would I do something like echo -> "Hello" -> log.txt ?
<mfraz74> echo "hello" >> log.text
<mfraz74> I think
<kvarley> mfraz74: Thank you =)
<bennie_> hey everyone
<bennie_> have a quick question, not sure if it exists, but would any og you guys be interested in a unity extension the searches google (something like ctrl + g for a dash). If there is enough interest i might write one this week.
<gord> bennie_, its not thta easy to do, the google api is locked down :(
<gord> otherwise yeah it would be cool
<gord> but you are basically going to have to wget http://google.com/q=foobar and then parse results out of that
<bennie_> Well i don't mind a challenge, i was thinking of using the mobile version of the site
<bennie_> to start with i could do something as simple as the alt-f2 type launcher
<mfraz74> Any idea why I'm seeing: [UFW BLOCK] IN=eth0 OUT= MAC=00:1d:7d:93:9f:94:00:22:75:7a:61:9d:08:00 SRC=213.199.149.85 DST=192.168.2.102 LEN=40 TOS=0x00 PREC=0x00 TTL=53 ID=46317 DF PROTO=TCP SPT=80 DPT=33161 WINDOW=0 RES=0x00 RST URGP=0?
<mfraz74> whois 213.199.149.85 - Microsoft Lodon Internet Data Center
<brobostigon> ufw is a  control interface for itables, i get that in my syslog, when fail2ban blocks something.
<brobostigon> iptables*
<mfraz74> I know about UFW, but why am I seeing that IP address in my logs?
<brobostigon> something must be happening with iptables, for it to be blocking something, based on your iptables rules. i would presume.
<mfraz74> is it possible to find out what it is blocking?
<brobostigon> it is blocking that ip, i would have a look trhough your iptables rules,
<brobostigon> for some reason*
<Mez> Anyone have recent experience of how bad flynig between the UK and US is?
<danfish> Mez: how so? Customer service or turbulence?
<Mez> danfish: dodgy security arrangement s:D
<hamitron> statistically, you will make it across alive
<hamitron> ;)
<Mez> I've got to go out to San Fran sometime soon for a job interview
<danfish> hamitron: hah
<danfish> Mez: I waited at New York customs for 90mins to get through - wife got asked to go for a 'special interview'
<danfish> turned up 30mins later very irritated
<Mez> danfish: kinky... lol.
<Mez> I can imagine
<danfish> the New Yorker's we ran into felt the security was nuts and the staff rude etc
<danfish> but hey ho, after what they've  been through.......
<phonex01> guys im using firefox on ubunt  when i use facebook i have to refresh the page manually to see new post and comments and messages !!!
<phonex01> ????
<Mez> danfish: it's SFO for me
<danfish> Mez: not been there myself, but if reputation is anything to go by, you'll have flowers in your hair and free love within minutes of landing ;)
<Mez> danfish: lol...
<Mez> danfish: not too sure yet anyway. The company I'm going out for has worldwide offices... but the position I'm applying for is i the US - and thats where my recruiters are
<danfish> Mez: still, if they're paying..
<Mez> danfish: yes.  They are.
<danfish> Mustard! My wife went to SFO a couple of years ago for work and had a great time - food very good
<danfish> hmmm. I have a user of a mailing list I run that (accidentally) sent a file with a Trojan in it. Very irritated the mail got blocked and fervently denies a trojan was present. I obviously had to politely reply - now is claiming I've defamed his character etc.....
<danfish> getting nasty
<czajkowski> danfish: oh joy
<danfish> czajkowski: a mailing list of all of 20 people
<czajkowski> all drs?
<danfish> czajkowski: yup - so own assessment of IT ability - amazing, their actual ability, dismal :(
<czajkowski> ugh
<czajkowski> all smart and know they're right
<czajkowski> right
<danfish> mind you that makes me sound horribly arrogant ;)
<danfish> czajkowski: yup
<danfish> czajkowski: enough of that, how's thee?
<czajkowski> danfish: ah ok, bit confused at NHS stuff here
<czajkowski> have 2 letters I know what 1 is for but not another
<czajkowski> but you have this apoinment thingy over here makes no sense :s
<danfish> czajkowski: the NHS is a lesson in confusion
<czajkowski> danfish: to be fair I've had a good experience so far
<zaahir> Hellollo !
<alexcockell> Hi all..
<safiyyah> I have a broken machine again. initramfs :(
<safiyyah> I have a broken machine with an initramfs error. It happened previously 2 days ago, but in the middle of a diagnosis it resolved itself. Today, the system froze so I shut it down using the power button, and on reboot, I got the initramfs error. http://paste.ubuntu.com/628040/  when I tried to use the shift key at boot up to It wouldn't go into the menu and I got a kernel panic error message...
<safiyyah> ...: http://paste.ubuntu.com/628888/
<MartijnVdS> You should never shut down using the power button while doing an upgrade :|
<MartijnVdS> safiyyah: You should be able to get a menu when holding shift when starting the computer
<safiyyah> I wasn't upgrading. I had been away for a while and it was on screen saver, I pressed enter to just get back to work and it froze
<safiyyah> MartijnVdS:  there was no menu, I got the kernel panic error message
<MartijnVdS> safiyyah: there shuold be, if you keep shift pressed all the way while the machine is starting
<safiyyah> I am telling you keeping shift pressed down produced that error
<safiyyah> http://paste.ubuntu.com/628888/
<safiyyah> AlanBell, popey, ali1234
 * Azelphur waves at safiyyah, long time no see :p
<safiyyah> lol Azelphur
 * safiyyah waves back
<safiyyah> did you see my woes?
<ali1234> left shift
<ali1234> not right shift
<Azelphur> hehe :p
<safiyyah> ali1234:  yes it was the left shift
<gord> wow. they really changed blender since i last used it
<gord> like, entirely
<safiyyah> blenders gord?
<safiyyah> so about diagnositics, does anyone havea clue what is wrong?
<ali1234> your root filesystem is corrupted
<Azelphur> ^ my thoughts too
<Azelphur> maybe hdd broken, maybe just having a funny day
<ali1234> probably an intermittent physical error
<safiyyah> also, I have a question - the swap area. is that necessary when I don't have a dual boot
<ali1234> it's never necessary
<Azelphur> ^
<Azelphur> but it's nice to have if you don't have a lot of RAM
<ali1234> as long as you always have enough ram
<safiyyah> this is the output of fdisk - l http://paste.ubuntu.com/628900/
<ali1234> hint: you don't have enough ram
<ali1234> you never can have enough
<ali1234> 16gb is not enough
<Azelphur> ali1234: lies, I have 12GB with no swap
<safiyyah> 16gb with a seperate home partition is not enough?
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: but you can't suspend to disk!
<ali1234> 16gb is plenty for root filesystem
<Azelphur> OH GOD THE AGONY
<ali1234> it just isn't enough for ram
<ali1234> lol suspend to disk with 16gb
<ali1234> takes longer than rebooting
<Azelphur> safiyyah: swap / ram preferences / amounts depend on how you use your computer at the end of the day
<Azelphur> like MartijnVdS says if you want suspend you need swap
<Azelphur> but if you have a decent amount of ram, and don't usually go anywhere near using it all, then you can skip swap :)
<safiyyah> okay, I dont play any games but I do watch a lot of online streaming media
<safiyyah> so how much swap is needed?
<Azelphur> the safe option is to just have some swap
<Azelphur> as having swap shouldn't cause you any problems, where as not having swap might do
<Azelphur> safiyyah: how much RAM do you have?
<safiyyah> 1gb
<Azelphur> maybe 2GB of swap then?
<Azelphur> (I hear the rule is 2x RAM in swap, although it's an entirely pointless / made up rule)
<safiyyah> sorry my swap has 248 gb, i am not understanding the problem
<Azelphur> 248GB swap O.O what
<safiyyah> http://paste.ubuntu.com/628900/ look at this azelphur
<Azelphur> blocks arn't gigabytes o.O
<safiyyah> okay so what are they?
<Azelphur> they are blocks lol
<Azelphur> safiyyah: but your problem is nothing to do with swap
<safiyyah> okay
<Azelphur> safiyyah: you probably have a faulty hard drive
<Azelphur> safiyyah: fire up disk utility and run a full SMART test on it
<safiyyah> Azelphur, I just bought this HDD
<safiyyah> like 2 months a go
<Azelphur> that's good, then it'll be in warranty if it's dead :)
<safiyyah> ali1234:  i am sure you remember advising me on which to buy
<safiyyah> i see a disk usage analyser, I am on live disk
<safiyyah> is it something to install?
<Azelphur> safiyyah: which version?
<safiyyah> maverick
<Azelphur> old :o
<safiyyah> yes well lucid live disk will not go into live session :(
<safiyyah> so it's what I had
<Azelphur> disk utility was in maverick I think though :S
 * Azelphur fires up a maverick vm quickly
 * safiyyah thankful for help
<Azelphur> safiyyah: yep, disk utility is in maverick, system > administration > disk utility
<safiyyah> Azelphur: it says the disk is healthy
<safiyyah> :)
<Azelphur> safiyyah: yea, run a full smart test on it
<safiyyah> Azelphur:  short, extended or convenyance?
<MartijnVdS> extended
<Azelphur> extended I guess
<Azelphur> :)
<MartijnVdS> Argh
<MartijnVdS> someone mis-ordered the tracks for a CD on MusicBrainz *hate*
<safiyyah> it says it will take tens of minutes
<Azelphur> safiyyah: yep.
<MartijnVdS> safiyyah: some disks take several hours
<safiyyah> omg! can i install flash and get on with net surfing in the meantime?
<MartijnVdS> sure
<Azelphur> yes
<safiyyah> the problem is maverick live disk doesn't let me install flash
<MartijnVdS> You should be able to do almost anything, except restart the machine
<safiyyah> the installation always gets stuck
<MartijnVdS> safiyyah: are you behind a proxy?
<safiyyah> don't think so MartijnVdS
 * Azelphur is thinking memtest too just to be evil
<MartijnVdS> safiyyah: what does the installation get stuck on?
<safiyyah> i will do whatever you say boss,
<safiyyah> it gets stuck on "applying changes"
<MartijnVdS> safiyyah: open up the window (click the arrow)
<safiyyah> boss = Azelphur
<MartijnVdS> safiyyah: it should give you some text lines
<Azelphur> \o/
<safiyyah> Azelphur, just don't abandon me in the middle of it all lol
<Azelphur> safiyyah: or just go terminal type sudo apt-get install flashplugin-nonfree
<Azelphur> I won't <3
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: won't work while the GUI apt thingy is still running
<Azelphur> oh, thought she wasn't stuck already
<Azelphur> thought she was avoiding it because it caused problems in the past
<safiyyah> lol I got stuck graphically, but the terminal threw this out: http://paste.ubuntu.com/628914/
<Azelphur> hmm, flash will be in one of those other fun repos that isn't enabled by default on livecd I guess
 * Azelphur breaks out the vm again :p
<safiyyah> i literally just downloaded natty and I hadn't burnt it yet, or put it on live USB, hope I can get hold of it. It sounds like when all this is over, I will need to backup my data and do a fresh install
<Azelphur> safiyyah: applications > software center > edit > software sources tick Software restricted by copyright or legal issues (multiverse), wait for the In Progress (1) thing to go away, then go back to terminal and run sudo apt-get install flashplugin-nonfree again
<safiyyah> Azelphur, which VM software do you use?
<Azelphur> safiyyah: virtualbox
<safiyyah> did you pay for it to enable USB devices?
<Azelphur> there is no pay for edition of virtualbox
<Azelphur> the USB enabled one is free it's just not open source
<safiyyah> oh when I get this running I will come back to look for you on that
<Azelphur> ok :)
<safiyyah> okay the self test says it cancelled, with a hard or soft reset
<safiyyah> i didnt touch the power button!
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: any ideas on ^?
<safiyyah> and the flash plugin is stuck... on the Unpacking flashplugin-installer (from .../flashplugin-installer_10.3.181.26ubuntu0.10.10.1_i386.deb) ... bit
<Azelphur> my memtest sense is tingling even more now xD
<Azelphur> can't hurt to run memtest, lets do that and see if that's causing the problem
<safiyyah> yes memtest involves rebooting
<safiyyah> what do i do again?
<Azelphur> yea, but since the test cancelled anyway
<Azelphur> reboot and boot from the LiveCD, holding left shift
<Azelphur> you should be presented with a memtest option
<safiyyah> okay.
<safiyyah> i will be back after some 30 or more minutes I take it?
<Azelphur> yea, something like that
<safiyyah> okay, don't abandon me will be back on live disk asap
<safiyyah> you can pop off the the time though :P
<Azelphur> I'll be here, probably gonna go nab a microwave meal though :P
<Azelphur> :D
<popey> evening all
<Azelphur> Anyone got any idea how I'd debug cron jobs not running at all?
<Azelphur> it just randomly decided to stop working about 7 weeks ago
<popey> known issue
<popey> restart the cron daemon
<Azelphur> how do I restart it?
<popey> sudo service crond restart
<Azelphur> cool, ty :)
<popey> np
<popey> botched update
<popey> google for pam ubuntu cron
<popey> or just restart cron and forget it
<Azelphur> yea, restarted cron, hopefully solves it :)
<Azelphur> is XBMC server / client arch like MythTV where you run an XBMC client on any machine in the network and it streams?
<Azelphur> or do you need to mount network shares for it
<safiyyah> Azelphur: mem test passed
<czajkowski> evening folks
<safiyyah> Azelphur:
<Azelphur> safiyyah:
<safiyyah> OH THANK GOD! I thought you left me
<Azelphur> oh cool, memtest passed :)
<Azelphur> safiyyah: nah, just my brother being irritating \o/
<Azelphur> so it passes memtest, that's a good start
<safiyyah> what now?
<Azelphur> I guess you could run fsck on the drive see if that fixes it
<safiyyah> fsck?
<Azelphur> filesystem check
<safiyyah> okay so $ sudo fsck?
<Azelphur> is the drive mounted?
<safiyyah> no am on live disk only
<Azelphur> ok
<safiyyah> so i need to become root user?
<Azelphur> sudo fsck -f /dev/sda2
<safiyyah> http://paste.ubuntu.com/628951/
<Azelphur> it's mounted, unmount it :P
<safiyyah> lol
<safiyyah> there is no unmount command
<safiyyah> what is it
<Azelphur> sudo umount /dev/sda2
<safiyyah> http://paste.ubuntu.com/628952/
<Azelphur> go to disk utility and try to unmount it using that
<Azelphur> it will tell you what is using it
<bigcalm> Hi kids :)
<safiyyah> hi dad?
<bigcalm> What are you still doing up?
<safiyyah> Azelphur: i dont see anything saying it's mounted?
<Azelphur> :S how can it be busy if it's not mounted
<Azelphur> that's messed up lol
<Azelphur> sudo lsof /dev/sda2
<safiyyah> http://paste.ubuntu.com/628957/
<Azelphur> hmm, wait, your fdisk -l from earlier makes no mention of a livecd
<Azelphur> doesn't fdisk usually spew out the casper filesystem or something? o.O
<Azelphur> nope, guess not, doesn't do it on my VM \o/
<Azelphur> safiyyah: I guess just reboot to free up whatever is using the hdd
<Azelphur> and then you can run the fsck again
<safiyyah> ok brb again!
<DeathSling> can anyone help me with a ubuntu vm?  I've got about 5Mbs disk speed. I've switched it to virtio driver but that seems to be even slower (using qcow2 format)
<DeathSling> does the vm need to be a block device in order to get proper speeds?
<safiyyah> Azelphur: rebooted, this is the output: http://paste.ubuntu.com/628968/
<safiyyah> we still have the problem
<Azelphur> that makes no sense, anyone else got any suggestions?
 * Azelphur prods ali1234
<safiyyah> i am just puzzled, ubuntu for me was super stable on ext 3, with hardy - everything else seems to be reaping havock
<safiyyah> Maverick crashed on me and Lucid has landed me here twice!
<Azelphur> :(
<safiyyah> right and i cant install flash on live disk maverick either
<safiyyah> this is super annoying!
<ali1234> sup?
<Azelphur> ali1234: you was looking into this earlier, I told her to run memtest which she passed
<Azelphur> and I told her to run smart, but it stopped with an error akin to the test was stopped because of a hard or soft reset
<Azelphur> and now I'm trying to run fsck but it won't let me because the device is busy even though it's not mounted
<Azelphur> :s
<ali1234> well yeah that means the disk is broken
<ali1234> or bad cable
<ali1234> or the connector isn't on properly
<ali1234> or maybe bad power supply
<MattJ> or it's busy
<ali1234> yeah... busy stuck in an endless loop trying to access a bad block
<ali1234> that's the normal reason why it does that
<Azelphur> safiyyah: ^ those things :p
<ali1234> endless resets and busy signals = bad block, cannot access, and cannot remap
<safiyyah> solution?
<ali1234> buy a new hard drive
<safiyyah> what? again?
<ali1234> figure out why your hard drives keep dying
<Azelphur> safiyyah: you can get a tool from your manufacturer that will check the state of your hard drive
<ali1234> do you live next to a magnet factory?
<safiyyah> no
<ali1234> yeah if it is a relatively new drive you can return it if the tool says so
<ali1234> (that was a joke)
<safiyyah> ha ha
 * hamitron was gonna say something about her been attractive, but thought better of it ;)
<safiyyah> rofl
<safiyyah> v funny hamitron
<safiyyah> r u guys sure it's dead?
<safiyyah> I don't just need a clean install?
<ali1234> if it cant even mount that's bad
<ali1234> you should get the manufacturer tool and run it
<ali1234> it will tell you for sure if the drive is bad
<ali1234> and if it is bad, you should return it and get a new drive for free
<safiyyah> what manufacturer tool?
<ali1234> well it depends what type of HD you have
<safiyyah> samsung
<ali1234> http://www.samsung.com/global/business/hdd/support/downloads/support_in_es.html
<ali1234> it's tricky though :/
<ali1234> i think you need to make a freedos usb boot flash (which is similar to making a ubuntu boot flash) and then copy the tool onto it
<ali1234> then run it and see what it says
<safiyyah> ali1234:  the flash disk one doesn't let me make it, and the iso image, well everytime I direct the disk creator to it, it only wants to burn a maverick iso
<safiyyah> is that because I am a live session user
<ali1234> you need to do this
<ali1234> 1. get unetbootin
<ali1234> 2. use it to make a freedos boot drive
<ali1234> 3. mount the samsung tool iso and copy the diagnostic tool to the freedos boot drive
<ali1234> 4. boot freedos
<ali1234> 5. run the tool
<safiyyah> and while this is going on: I see my hard drive on the left side, sda4 opens, but sda 3 says it is busy waiting for an operation. So it seems the root file system is what is busy not the entire disk
<ali1234> that's probably where the bad blocks are then
<ali1234> or maybe not, idk
<ali1234> the diagnostic tool will tell you if it's really bad or not
<ali1234> where is dmesg output?
<safiyyah> you guys didn't ask for it
<safiyyah> I will run it as soon as unetbootin finished
<safiyyah> if it doesn't get stuck at the "applying changes" hurdle again
<hamitron> what is the default UDF version for dvd-ram?
<hamitron> 1.02 I assume
<safiyyah> okay it is stuck on the 'applying changes' part again
<JGJones> hey hey
<JGJones> Does get-iplayer work with other channels such as 4oD?
<safiyyah> brb, i am going to try and get the lucid live disk going
<safiyyah> maverick always does this!
<safiyyah> okay i have a fourth proposal as to what the nature of the problem is.
<safiyyah> It's the live disks
<safiyyah> Azelphur:  and ali1234
<Azelphur> safiyyah: have you tried booting from USB instead?
<safiyyah> i can't load the lucid live session. and Maverick won't let me install anything, not the flashplugin and not the unetbooter thing
<safiyyah> i was unable to make a flash usb remember?
<Azelphur> haha, it does sound dodgy
<safiyyah> so, I am not on a fedora core live disk and guess what?
<Azelphur> do you not have another computer with which to make one?
<Azelphur> what?
<safiyyah> I can access my hard drive... without the error messages
<Azelphur> nice :)
<safiyyah> AND fsck is running
<Azelphur> fun
<safiyyah> http://paste.ubuntu.com/629000/
<safiyyah> it hasn't finished yet but I just wanted to show you
<Azelphur> :D
<safiyyah> so I know this is an ubuntu room, but could we take this route for now because I can't even make the diagnostic disk ali1234 is asking me to make
<Azelphur> *shrug* there's people in here using all distros lol
<Azelphur> I got no hate against fedora, if it works for you use it :)
<safiyyah> lol am scared of it lol
 * hamitron liked fedora last time he used it
<safiyyah> am on the live disk only
<Azelphur> hehe
<safiyyah> btw, how long does fsck take>
<hamitron> hours
<Azelphur> depends entirely on size of drive / size of partition / amount of data
<Azelphur> hours sounds about right :)
<hamitron> or that could be my slow comp :/
<safiyyah> okay so what is supposed to happen when it finishes?
<Azelphur> safiyyah: it should just exit
<Azelphur> it'll whine if there's anything wrong
<ali1234> ok so there's something wrong with ubuntu :)
<ali1234> nothing much new there
 * hamitron gives up
<hamitron> scrap that, I got an idea
<hamitron> gonna get a coffee
<hamitron> :D
<hamitron> brb
<safiyyah> once it exits, you are saying if I reboot the whole system will just load?
<safiyyah> yes ali1234 that is the problem
<Azelphur> safiyyah: nope, I'm saying that if it just exits it didn't find a problem with the filesystem
<Azelphur> xD
<safiyyah> and I do remember the last issue we had as well. months ago, I had to use this same disk to get my data backed up
<safiyyah> okay it finished
<safiyyah> http://paste.ubuntu.com/629005/
<safiyyah> now what :P i dont get what just happened obviously
<Azelphur> safiyyah: it found an issue, and it says it fixed it.
<Azelphur> try rebooting. You might be good to go :)
<safiyyah> i can only wish
<ali1234> odified but nothing much interesting happened
<ali1234> just recovered journal
<safiyyah> okay
<ali1234> ah
<safiyyah> so what do we do now?
<ali1234> no idea
<ali1234> there's something really odd with your computer
<safiyyah> yeah, you are telling me
<safiyyah> at this point am tempted to drive to your house and drop it off
<safiyyah> lol
<Azelphur> haha
<safiyyah> okay so it time to back up and just do a clean install?
<ali1234> i don't think that is going to help if the live cds don't even work right
<Azelphur> ^
<safiyyah> well it will give me a chance to make new live CDs
<safiyyah> with natty or something
<ali1234> making a backup is always a good idea
<Azelphur> safiyyah: make the new LiveCDs on your working fedora
<Azelphur> but yea, backups are a good idea
<ali1234> maybe you should just install fedora :)
<safiyyah> how, I have one DVD drive
<ali1234> i heard it's nice
<safiyyah> rofl
<Azelphur> lol
<Azelphur> safiyyah: put it on USB?
<safiyyah> you know, I am seriously considering it but well whose going to help me with it
<safiyyah> I can even figure out how to install flash on it
<safiyyah> lol
<ali1234> lol nobody, fedora guys hate helping people
<Azelphur> there are fedora channels, not that we want rid of you xD
<Azelphur> or that
<safiyyah> Azelphur, there is no start up disk utility
<Azelphur> safiyyah: get unetbootin
<ali1234> yeah i always use unetbootin cos it works everywhere and supports every kind of startup disk ever
<Azelphur> indeed
<Azelphur> unetbootin makes everything work
<zaahir> hi all !!!
<safiyyah> okay
<ali1234> frankly i dunno why they bother with startup disk creator
<ali1234> they should just fix up unetbootin
<zaahir> Ø§ÙØ³ÙØ§Ù Ø¹ÙÙÙÙ
<safiyyah> wa alaikum as salaam zaahir
<safiyyah> ali1234:  speaking of "they" -  i wish "they" would fix ubuntu to stop breaking for me too
<ali1234> heh, don't we all
<zaahir> some people on Birmingham ?
<safiyyah> i am beginning to think all these quick releases are the reason... fedora takes years to update. plenty of time to stabilise it
<penguin42> ali1234: unetbootin is great
<ali1234> fedora is every 6 months too
<ali1234> and it's arguably less stable because it's really "red hat beta version"
<ali1234> less stable in both senses
<safiyyah> usb is /dev/sr0 right?
<ali1234> maybe
<ali1234> /dev/sr0 is the first cdrom
<ali1234> actually, scsi removable disc
<ali1234> it might be on usb, or it might not
<penguin42> usb storage tends to land as a scsi disk - i.e. /dev/sdb etc
<ali1234> yeah
<ali1234> but if it's removable there will be an underlying sr device too
<ali1234> usb storage is just scsi packets wrapped in usb transfers
<penguin42> hmm I've never noticed an sr device except for cd/dvd
<safiyyah> i took the drive out to check, when I put it in the new thing that appeared was /dev/sdc1
<safiyyah> so i think it's thatt
<ali1234> well cd/dvd are the most common scsi removables
<ali1234> note "unpluggable on usb" does not equal removable
<ali1234> because then you are unplugging the whole usb controller
<ali1234> whole scsi controller sorry
<ali1234> if you had a scsi tape drive, that would be an sr too, but who has one of those?
<penguin42> ali1234: That's normally st
<ali1234> hmm, fair enough
<safiyyah> well it is sdc
<penguin42> ali1234: I have a few dat drives I've not used in a while
<safiyyah> so i am making a live USB of natty
<ali1234> http://www.linuxdocs.org/HOWTOs/SCSI-2.4-HOWTO/sr.html
<safiyyah> then am going to boot up with it to make sure it's working, come and check in with you guys
<safiyyah> and my backing up will take an hour or more.
<ali1234> tl;dr sr = cd/dvd/worm drives
<safiyyah> so I will be doing that tomorrow and doing a fresh install
<safiyyah> AGAIN!!!!
<penguin42> ali1234: Yeh that's what I thought (although not seen any non-CD worm drives)
#ubuntu-uk 2011-06-19
<safiyyah> okay so it has been stuck at 5% for what seems to feel like 10 minutes to me
<safiyyah> okay so am going to bed, you will find me here tomorrow morning
<safiyyah> with the same issues
<safiyyah> am tired and grumpy
<safiyyah> i just want a warm pillow now
<safiyyah> thank you guys as always
<zaahir> Bonne nuit Ã  tous, salut ! ÙÙÙ Ø³Ø¹ÙØ¯ Ø§ÙØ³ÙØ§Ù Ø¹ÙÙÙÙ Good night every body !
<safiyyah> so Azelphur it turns out you are right
<Azelphur> I am?
<safiyyah> I am back in the system
<Azelphur> yay \o/
<safiyyah> lol
<safiyyah> I think I will back everything up and make the live disks right now
<Azelphur> now about that anything you was going to do for me...
<Azelphur> jk :p
<safiyyah> no bed for me
<safiyyah> rofl
<Azelphur> yea, fsck found an issue and fixed it, something is definitely dodgy
<Azelphur> a backup sounds like a good idea
<safiyyah> yeah am going to stay up and do it
<Azelphur> :)
<safiyyah> I will also make the iso Cd for the manufacturer and for natty
<safiyyah> i am worried anytime I will get a rubbish boot up again
<Azelphur> safiyyah: I had a problem like this with a PC I was selling and the buyer was arriving in 30 minutes to pick it up
<Azelphur> nerve racking xD
<safiyyah> rofl
<safiyyah> fsck helped you?
<safiyyah> rofl
<Azelphur> nah, it turned out to be Ubuntu trying to raid with drives that wasn't there
<Azelphur> and it kept messing things up
<Azelphur> stupid dmraid
<safiyyah> how did you figure that out?
<Azelphur> I figured it out after, it used to be my PC so I realized what it was up to
<safiyyah> Unetbootin is stuck again!
<penguin42> safiyyah: Any errors in dmesg?
<safiyyah> ooops spoke too soon
<safiyyah> it finished
<safiyyah> okay live USB for natty done!
<safiyyah> pulling out external hard drive
<safiyyah> lol
<Azelphur> \o/
<safiyyah> lol I have done my live disks , i am doing a fresh download of lucid to make a new live disk
<safiyyah> hopefully if anything dies again, I am prepared
<hamitron> :)
<Azelphur> safiyyah: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_p73PZIDQuA
<Azelphur> couldn't resist :p
<safiyyah> I need help with the samsung tool iso -when i try to burn an image, when i select it it goes into a random folder instead and when i use start up disk tool same thing
<Azelphur> when you select what?
<safiyyah> lol Azelphur indeed I was not prepared
<Azelphur> xD
<safiyyah> i downloaded the samsung hdd tool, CD version. It's a zip file, so I extracted it. its whatever.iso so when I try to burn an image of it, when I select it from brasero, it randomly goes into a different folder altogether (note I just burt an image of natty with no issues)
<safiyyah> same thing when I use the start up disk tool (note I just made a live USB from start up disk tool no issue)
<Azelphur> safiyyah: extract the iso from the zip file
<Azelphur> right click on the iso, write to disc
<safiyyah> will that still burn an image?
<safiyyah> because that does work
<safiyyah> but I was worried it would be faulty
<safiyyah> Azelphur,
<Azelphur> safiyyah: that will just burn an image
<safiyyah> okay off we go!
<safiyyah> Azelphur,  Goodnight - finished everything, surprise the backup ran faster than expected, got all the disks done, so hopefully I am not in for a rude shock. I will run the samsung tool tomorrow though (even if it doesn't die again), it will be interesting to see the report
<Azelphur> safiyyah: yea, I think that samsung tool wipes your hdd
<Azelphur> so make sure your backups are good
<safiyyah> well the data backup is good, already checked, I will have to test the live disks for errors
<safiyyah> but it won't be tonight lol! the window of opportunity was the reason i stayed up
<safiyyah> I will be the one crying tomorrow morning when the kids get up
<safiyyah> lol
<safiyyah> night night
<Azelphur> :)
<ibroadfo> hi, is there a unity-approved way to get gmail notifications in my systray?
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Andy Loughran] Choosing a CMS - http://zrmt.com/2011/06/16/choosing-a-cms/
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Andy Loughran] Birmigham and Solihull Rugby [Sponsorship Opportunity] - http://zrmt.com/2011/06/17/birmigham-and-solihull-rugby-sponsorship-opportunity/
<jibadeeha> do iphone 4 work well with ubuntu
<AlanBell> morning all
<AlanBell> jibadeeha: Apple are trying to make the PC redundant anyway so the iPhone should work without anything
<AlanBell> but yeah, you can sync and copy stuff to it, charge it and tether to it
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: doesn't it depend on itunes for installing new apps?
<AlanBell> MartijnVdS: not any more apparently, they are going to stop shipping them bricked
<MartijnVdS> Good thing I have android devices :P
<AlanBell> me too
<jibadeeha> AlanBell, i was toying with the idea of getting one but think i will stick to android based phone as i love all the integration with gmail, etc
<czajkowski> aloha
<czajkowski> AlanBell: any idea where one can get an assus with ubuntu being sold now ?
<danfish> morning
<danfish> I really need to learn some relaxation techniques - I cannot shut my brain off at night to allow me to sleep :(
<MartijnVdS> danfish: Try a "shutdown ritual" -- walk around the house turning off all the lights, brush your teeth, etc. That should help prepare your mind for sleep.
<MartijnVdS> danfish: also, stop staring into a light (i.e. your monitor) some time before sleep
<popey> czajkowski: dont think they're available yet
<danfish> MartijnVdS: that's good advice. I used to read before bed which used to help - I think I need to restart (?maybe time to buy a kindle)
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<AlanBell> morning czajkowski, no idea, don't think they are out
<AlanBell> czajkowski: trouble with the mini-9?
<czajkowski> nope
<czajkowski> just curious
<brobostigon> http://www.geeksaresexy.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/cross-stitch-for-nerds-12-e1308336745909.jpg
<AlanBell> nice
<AlanBell> there is lots of stuff like that on etsy
<MartijnVdS> etsy eft? :P
<AlanBell> http://www.etsy.com
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: I'm trying to get my mother to sell stuff on etsy, she was telling me how much she had been knitting last year (A LOT)
<AlanBell> maco does stuff there, not sure it is geeky though
<AlanBell> http://www.etsy.com/shop/SimplyMaco
<brobostigon> it certainly hit my nerdy/geeky bone.
<AlanBell> http://www.neatorama.com/2011/03/09/30-great-geeky-cross-stitches/
<AlanBell> quite impressed by the QR code
<AlanBell> if my phone hadn't been stolen by Angry Birds adicts I would see if it works
<popey> AlanBell: you recently did a new logo for the team...
<popey> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-uk <- that should use it
<AlanBell> it probably should, I did spend a little time trying to do a square version
<brobostigon> ubuntu publicity, for 2 seconds, on bbc click, inclusive of ubuntu logo.
<popey> heh
<popey> Blipverts
<brobostigon> yes.
<penguin42> that's an annoying bug - the window manager from gdm surviving through to the session and screwing it up
<hackersrus> Afternoons :)
<hackersrus> Just downloaded/upgraded to the new Ubuntu :) using my Samsung Galaxy for the internet was very quick and simple .. got to love the 3 network! ;P
<hackersrus> Loving the new GUI side menu very smart ;)
<hackersrus> <-- ^aDaM btw... IRC seems to be picking my hostname up as default.
<^aDaM> :-}
<MattJ> What IRC client are you using?
<penguin42> why can't I find the accounts dialog on pidgin any more?
<suprengr> penguin42, which Ubuntu?
<penguin42> suprengr: Natty
 * penguin42 wonders if it might have hung off a panel icon that's no longer visible
<suprengr> penguin42, no menus when you hover over "panel" at top of screen?
<suprengr> [normal menu set be there
<suprengr> [aghh me harties!]
<penguin42> suprengr: Yeh the menu set is there but I don't see an option for account settings - I could swear it used to be there somewhere
<suprengr> penguin42, ditto! nomenu option gives you "accounts"or "manage accounts" ?  if nothing there - why not try the "Chat" option from System Settings or the drop down from panel  icon a.k.a. "Me Menu"
<penguin42> suprengr: They seem to trigger empathy, for which I have no empathy
<suprengr> ...or from the mail icon
<ali1234> penguin42: ctrl-a
<ali1234> on buddy list
<penguin42> ali1234: Ah! Obvious!
<ali1234> penguin42: it's obvious if you can still see the menu
<suprengr> ;)
<ali1234> i suggest you turn off global menu
<penguin42> ali1234: Where does the menu appear for you? On the menu bar itself?
<ali1234> for me the menu appears exactly where it has always appeared
<ali1234> because i have disabled global menu
<penguin42> ali1234: Except I can't remember where that was - hence the question
<ali1234> global menu messes up many apps and is just unneccessarily confusing
<ali1234> it appears between "buddies" and "tools"
<penguin42> oh that's the problem - it's a menu off the buddy list - but I'm using sloppy focus so it was switching away from it's menu
<ali1234> yeah
<apw> Pendulum, have you tried F10 to open the menu in the focus'd window
 * suprengr bows to ali1234 
<apw> penguin42, ^^
<ali1234> and there's no way to tell which window the global menu is associated
<apw> not that thats a solution of course, but global menu doesn't work at all well with sloppy focus
<ali1234> basically global menu is a horrible idea that breaks in so many ways it should just be removed
<ali1234> it shouldn't even be an option
<apw> it works pretty well with click-to-focus ... other than that its a fail
<ali1234> that's how bad it is
<ali1234> no, it does not even work with click to focus
<ali1234> the same problem that happens with follow-mouse can happen with clicking if you click in the wrong place, which is easy enough to do, and extremely irritating
<apw> ok its workable in my opinion in click-to-focus, i just hate that mode
<ali1234> it's not even workable because you have to always check which window is focused before you click the menu
<penguin42> apw: Yeh F10 works
<ali1234> you end up having to mouse all over the screen instead of just going directly to the menu you want
<apw> penguin42, a hateful work around
<penguin42> apw: Indeed
<apw> ali1234, you don't need to convince me, i hate it too
<apw> and it hates me
<ali1234> yeah well i'm hoping if i rant enough about it it might actually get fixed (where fixed = removed forever)
<apw> it would be more productive to offer patches to add a UI to disable it, then i could use it to ... disable it
<ali1234> it needs to be disabled in several places
<ali1234> you have to disable it for gnome apps and firefox independently, in different ways
<ali1234> but a UI to disable it is not enough
<apw> i thought there was an env variable you could turn on in the X session ... but ok
<ali1234> yeah that variable only covers gnome apps afaik
<ali1234> in firefox it's done by an extension that you have to disable
<ali1234> the really fun thing about global menus
<ali1234> is that if you run a program in a nested x server with no WM
<ali1234> it won't have a menu at all
<ali1234> that is, global menu is implemented in a way such that it activates by default even if there is nothing to "catch" the menu
<ali1234> so the menu just goes up in smoke and the program becomes unusable
<apw> ali1234, nice is there a bug about that?
<ali1234> i think i reported it, yeah
<ali1234> hang on
<ali1234> bug 774586
<Kirior> spadaj15
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 774586 in appmenu-gtk (Ubuntu) "Applications have no menu when run in a nested X session" [Low,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/774586
<Kirior> hi all got a problem, dowloaded a chromium by hexx OS, put id on a usb stick and now i cannot boot it up, dunno what to do i just wanted to try this out but seems inmpossible
<ali1234> Kirior: firstly you are not missing anything
<Myrtti> a whatwhat by whom?
<ali1234> Myrtti: chrome OS
<dwatkins> it's hexxeh
<ali1234> google don't package it, some guy called hexx does unnofficial images
<Kirior> http://chromeos.hexxeh.net/
<Myrtti> rrright
<dwatkins> There are instructions for putting the image onto USB, don't just copy the file
<Kirior> i followed them to the letter
<ali1234> so what happens when you try to boot it?
<Kirior> i guess it it my bios as i dont have a USB boot option
<ali1234> could be, or it could be disabled
<Kirior> i can see my external hard drive but not my SD card
<ali1234> if it is new enough to run chrome os it is new enough to boot from usb
<dwatkins> Do you have a one-time 'select thing to boot from' option, Kirior?
<ali1234> ah, many bios cannot boot from SD card
<dwatkins> Usually F12.
<Kirior> i have f12 option
<daubers> lo
<ali1234> is it a usb sd card reader?
<ali1234> or is it a sd slot on a laptop?
<Kirior> yes
<Kirior> first
<ali1234> ok, well, they are not always bootable
<Kirior> usb micro sd card reader to be precise
<dwatkins> So it's essentially a USB pendrive.
<Kirior> ok micro sd adapter in a sd card slot should work?
<ali1234> well, it might. it all depends on your bios
<ali1234> your easiest thing is going to be to go and buy a real usb pendrive
<ali1234> also try different usb ports
<ali1234> sometimes not all of them can be accessed by the bios
<Kirior> will do be back in few mins i will try what u said :)
<ali1234> but like i said, you're not missing anything. chrome os is quite boring.
<Kirior> i just want to have a quick look :P i know it will/might be but since i have option to try why not :)
<ali1234> you can get the same effect by installing chrome on any os and then pretending the whole os doesn't exist
<Kirior> anyhow brb
<Kirior> i like my firefox :)
<dwatkins> Why use ChromeOS, then? ;)
<hackersrus> Evenings all :)
<brobostigon> http://edos.debian.net/weather/ a useful idea, i like.
<penguin42> oh yes that's neat
<brobostigon> especially as i run sid, next to ubuntu.
<penguin42> sid can be a bit random
<penguin42> brobostigon: I used to run sid prior to ubuntu
 * penguin42 still remembers the time one of the scripts swapped /etc/passwd's uid and gid field
<brobostigon> penguin42: it has been fairly good with me, upto now.
<brobostigon> lol
<brobostigon> :(
<brobostigon> penguin42: thats not good.
<penguin42> brobostigon: Oh there were a few like that - just enough to keep you on your toes; don't want to make it feel stable!
<brobostigon> penguin42: the worst i have hd upto now,is when getting some packages from experimental wirth some apt-pinnig, and it causing huge package inconsistencies.
<penguin42> there's no fun in using sid unless you pretty much have to glue the installation back together with duct tape and chewing gum before trying to read your mail each day
<brobostigon> yeah, sometimes.
<kvarley> Not really Ubuntu related, however - can anybody tell why my gtk notebook won't appear in this script? http://paste.ubuntu.com/629497/
<penguin42> kvarley: Not sure, but have you tried putting the notebook.show() after the add?
<kvarley> penguin42: Yup, doesn't do anything =/ There's not much documentation either for the notebook widget
<gord> kvarley, add a page to the notebook
<kvarley> gord: Oh yeah...That'd help...Doh! Thank you =)
<czajkowski> gord: looking forward to dublin ?
<czajkowski> any answer other than yes will offend me :)
<AlanBell> Azelphur: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2671441
<gord> czajkowski, considering i can get home on the friday at a sane time, yup somewhat :) as long as the weather is nice
<AlanBell> some people have a *lot* of money in bitcoin accounts
<bigcalm> And how real is it?
<AlanBell> really quite real
<AlanBell> someone was using it on windows and got their box hacked and lost 25k bitcoins
<AlanBell> someone else just lost 500k bitcoins somehow, hackers sold them for money and crashed the market
<AlanBell> and they were at $17 per bitcoin, so 'worth' $8,500,000 at the start of the dump
<gord> yeah thats the problem with bitcoins, its like storing all your money under your bed
<Core_UK> whats the Mt gox about?
<gord> wonder if you could use amazon to mine bitcoins, if it was profitable i mean
<AlanBell> it is, it is like cash, you don't *want* loads of the stuff hanging about, anything more than about a hundred in your wallet gets uncomfortable
<Core_UK> I went to their website and it seems all thats on there twitter feed is compromised accounts
<AlanBell> Core_UK: it is a market where you can trade bitcoins for other currency
<dogmatic69_> hey all
 * dogmatic69_ is fighting with mysql replication
<czajkowski> gord: on the plus side we have decent tea over there
<gord> czajkowski, and they speak the same language! big plus
<czajkowski> indeed
<czajkowski> gord: are you g@caonnica.c?
<dogmatic69_> does anyone know how to add a new database to replication?
<ali1234> AlanBell: the $1.2m dump was every coin on mtgox. hackers got the whole database and now they leaked it too
<dogmatic69_> like master has a,b,c replicate and then add d it should replicate also
<ali1234> the best part is that some hacker group actually posted a week ago that they could do this
<dogmatic69_> currently there is no db set for replication, eg all?
<AlanBell> ali1234: ooh, that is bad
<ali1234> they got the password hashes too
<gord> czajkowski, gord.allott@canonical.com
<czajkowski> gord: you've mail
<gord> czajkowski, thank you very much :)
<czajkowski> tea++
<gord> i'm always amazed at what people will pay for on amazon, Â£200+ for a bin!
<gaz_> hello
<Neoti_Laptop> hi all whats the command to reset gmone to how it looks when you first install ubuntu in ubuntu clasic mode
<Neoti_Laptop> ?
<DJones> !panels | Neoti_Laptop I'm nopt sure if the links in this still work, but sounds like what you need
<lubotu3> Neoti_Laptop I'm nopt sure if the links in this still work, but sounds like what you need: To reset the GNOME panel to defaults, type this in a !terminal: Â« gconftool --recursive-unset /apps/panel && killall gnome-panel Â»
<Neoti_Laptop> thanks that worked
<MooDoo> hello all
<brobostigon> evening MooDoo :)
<MooDoo> :)
<dogmatic69_> where can i get more info on dates in bash? like date +%Y%m%d
<dogmatic69_> i want to have hour and minute also
<shauno> dogmatic69_: man 3 strftime
<shauno> I think most of them are in man date too, but strftime is where they all come from in the first place
<dogmatic69_> thanks
<Catbuskris_> does anyone know how i can find out what my microphone is called by my computer?  i.e. it's something of the form /dev/spd1 or whatnot
<jools__> 'vnin
<brobostigon> good night, sleep well everyone.
#ubuntu-uk 2012-06-11
<stilia-johny> hi
 * stilia-johny i have a LAN of 5 PC via ethernet and i have wifi router as well! i want to setup my computer as a server and when one of the pc or the wireles connected pc want to go in a site as google to go normaly and when it want to go to www.site.co.uk to go in my ip.. i dont want to do it from the host file i want to do it with a dns HOW
<stilia-johny> ?
<dogmatic69> bind9
<dogmatic69> setup the router to use the 'server' ip as a DNS
<dogmatic69> I have a server set up like that, the dns handles *.dev for webdev and the rest is forwarded to google dns
<dogmatic69> stilia-johny: ^
<dogmatic69> widows vista 'system idle process' using 85% cpu...
<AlanBell> morning all
<MooDoo> morning all
<DJones> zzzzz, yawn, morning, thud..head hits desk
<jussi> DJones: sounds about right
<DJones> Definately
<DJones> Lack of sleep and painkillers suggest today will not be a productive day
 * jussi gets the electric prod out... move! :P
<DJones> I can't feel it, just produces a numbing tingling
 * TheOpenSourcerer was up at 5:00am - son has gone off on a sailing trip with his school to the IoW.
<DJones> TheOpenSourcerer: Sounds a fun trip
<daubers> Morning
<hoover> good morning all
<JamesTait> Good morning all! :)
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<hoover> morning biggie
<bigcalm> Ug, so much nicer to use a gui irc client
<oimon> nice of my hayfever to be going crazy in this torrential rain
<andylockran> morning all
<hoover> oimon: you need to pick up birdwatching ;-)
<oimon> hoover, my sneezes would scare aware the birds
<oimon> i'm amazed the bug hasn't been fixed where you can't shut down your machine if another user is logged into a session
<DJones> oimon: I could have done with you yesterday morning, two blue tits flying round my conservatory
<hoover> hehe
<hoover> A friend of mine was "cured" of his hayfever by getting really passionate about birdwatching... very cool
<hoover> had to take strong suppressants for the last decade or so, now it's all well
<oimon> i don't understand ?
<oimon> he took super strong drugs to make his hayfever go away?
<oimon> what drugs are these?
<DJones> Never had hayfever, but a cure for loud sneezes in our house involved a dog running from the other end of house and jumping on whoever sneezes, landing with all four paws right in your lap
<DJones> Not found a cure for the eyes watering after that happens though
<oimon> my nose runs like a tap between 7-10
<oimon> and awake at 4.30 with sinuses on fire
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<oimon> hello bro
<brobostigon> hello oimon
<DJones> This is a nice idea http://www.pcworld.com/article/257237/clambook_turns_the_laptop_into_a_smartphonepowered_peripheral_cats_herd_sheep.html seems like an ideal accessory to run Ubuntu for Phone with
<hoover> Damn
<hoover> oimon: no idea, I didn't ask for details on the drugs
<hoover> morning brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning hoover
<oimon> hmm mintbox PC looks a bit like acer revo ..but more $$
<popey> oimon: 10% markup for mint too
<popey> dont think they thought that through
<oimon> popey, cool tax?
<popey> given the most expensive one is 388 quid + VAT
<diplo> Morning all
<diplo> Anyone else seeing increasing amounts of spam since linkedin/eharmony thing ?
<popey> nope
<diplo> I used to get 3-4 a day for since I've had my gmail account
<diplo> Since linkedin + 1-2 days I've got 100+ a day
<bigcalm> popey: glad you're awake. What should I install on my iPad?
<diplo> So guess I was on the leaked list :(
<oimon> must block paris hilton on g+
<DJones> bigcalm: What made you decide to get an iPad
<bigcalm> DJones: app testing
<DJones> Ah
<oimon> how can i block a user who isn't in my circles?
<DJones> I wondered whether you'd got fed up waiting for ICS
<bigcalm> DJones: I've never felt so dispassionate about having a new tech toy
<DJones> Heh
<DJones> bigcalm: My wifes been driving me nuts all weekend looking at phones, I wouldn't mind, her contract isn't due up until about october
<bigcalm> :|
<DJones> She wants a Blackberry thats running Android :)
<popey> bigcalm: lastpass, skype, sipgate, where's the water, minecraft PE, cut the rope, draw something, mx mayhem, aqueduct 101, spotify, garage band, tune in radio, iplayer, ted itv player, 40d catchup OPlayer HD, google earth, issh, rightmove, bbc news, kindle, blue block, trainyard, find iphone, dropbox, u1 files, ...
<bigcalm> popey: good selection. I'll throw some of those on there
<popey> bigcalm: profanisaurus, windfinder, wattpad, cloud reader, stanza, rl classic, ebay, amazon,
<oimon> kindle?
<oimon> yep it's there
 * oimon wonders if 40d catchup is on android too
<oimon> there's also a cinemagr.am app
<popey> yes, i dont use my kindle now i have a kindle ipad app
<oimon> my tablet cost the same as a kindle
<diplo> I was told they weren't as nice to read on, you find it ok ?
<oimon> i like reading in bed with the kindle on tablet
<oimon> i.e. lights out
 * popey shrugs
<oimon> you get used to it, and it's only when you see a kindle that you remember that kindle display is better
<oimon> (a bit like HD TV)
<czajkowski> anyone have any recommendations for a tablet, counsin is lookign to buy one and she's only 15 and wants it for throwing into her bag and doing homework, anyone have any they prefer over others.
<diplo> Only had my kindle a couple of weeks, read a couple of books already
<oimon> i have a CRT telly that looks fine to me
<diplo> Quite liking it
<popey> czajkowski: ipad
<popey> czajkowski: all other tablets are rubbish
<popey> [FACT]
<oimon> troll
<oimon> :P
<popey> IMHO
<popey> running android makes them rubbish âº
<popey> so find a tablet not running android.. that leaves ipad
<czajkowski> popey: aye you know thats what I suggested to her and she said she wanted android, so just trying to see whats out there, they are all kinda pricy in euros as well
<czajkowski> popey: well there are windows ones also no ?
<popey> loldows
<czajkowski> well indeed
<diplo> czajkowski: There is one one on Ebuyer that's cheapish Â£170-80 that's getting good reviews and I am debating about
<oimon> popey, don't lie your transformer?
<diplo> But haven't tried it myself
<oimon> ^lie^like
<czajkowski> diplo: url?
 * diplo is searching already
<popey> oimon: android isnt very good on any tablet I've played with
<oimon> depends on your needs i guess
<oimon> seems to meet my requirements
<oimon> except tvcatchup was crashing on my tablet last night grrrr
<popey> i have never had tvcatchup crash on my ipad, ergo android is rubbish âº
<popey> when we finally make an ubuntu tablet, I will of course switch ;)
<czajkowski> I use mine for reading docs when travelling and irc and Yt but never watched movies on it
<diplo> czajkowski: I believe this is it http://www.ebuyer.com/344245-scroll-extreme-tablet-pc-54242
<czajkowski> diplo: thanks
<oimon> these IBM blades are shockingly bad
<czajkowski> am remmbering how cheap UK is over Euro by  a long shot
<diplo> If she goes for it keep me in the loop, be interested in a hands on :)
<czajkowski> will do
<czajkowski> she's getting it as a gift for sitting her Jnr cert
 * daubers still has no use for a tablet
<oimon> daubers, what do you do on the toilet?
<daubers> oimon: Isn't that what a kindles for?
<oimon> my 2year old is using my tablet too much
<oimon> he completed a hard level of train maze the other day
<oimon> he has 5 apps he really likes
<diplo> oimon: My youngest (4) keeps trying to touch the laptop screen to get it to scroll :(
<oimon> drum kit and piano, memory game, squirrel and train maze
<oimon> it's very intuitive interface
<popey> https://community.rapid7.com/community/metasploit/blog/2012/06/11/cve-2012-2122-a-tragically-comedic-security-flaw-in-mysql
<diplo> They love my brothers IPAD, I just can't find that sort of money, especially when the 5 year old is growing at the pace he is
<diplo> :(
<DJones> popey: Android on my tablet is excellent, works brilliantly and does everything i want, although price wise it is comparable with Ipads
<popey> i dont like the lack of screen responsiveness on android
<diplo> Failed on mine popey, going to test it on a few different ones
<popey> given my ipad is lower spec than the transformer, yet the transformer can't do screen updates as smoothly as ipad
<DJones> popey: In what way? I've not used an iPad, so I haven't got anything to compare with
<daubers> was the transformer gingerbread?
<DJones> Thats not something I've noticed
<DJones> daubers: ICS
<popey> its had various versions
<popey> its a well known issue with the display rendering on android
<diplo> I think this is the benefit for Apple, is they only design there OS for a few devices, makes making improvements so much easier
<daubers> Ah, someone in the office has a tablet s which doesn't seem to have the slow screen updates problem
<popey> its not just slow screen updates, artifacts on the screen, triangles rendering incorrectly
<DJones> Mine is the Prime which is very responsive
<daubers> I've found it varies between tablets. Some really suffe, other don't
<popey> yeah, the prime is better, but thats got 4 more cores than my ipad âº
<daubers> On the other side of things, I have seen a iPad give the OSX "Reboot now" screen
<popey> the what screen?
<daubers> When OSX has a kernel panic the screen goes grey telling you to hard reboot
<DJones> popey: I had to get the 4 cores, it makes up for my own memory & brain speed :)
<czajkowski> DJones: popey I just cant recommend something as priey as 500-600 euros when I know full well she's not going to use it as heavily as you folks would and she'll be needing a laptop next year as well
<daubers> Got a Mac Pro downstairs that does it on command when you pull out the 10GbE SFP+
<oimon> second hand hp touchpad?
<diplo> I'd love a touchpad
<oimon> or ipad1
<czajkowski> trying to see what I can get in uk and bring it over as that seems to be cheaper than here
<popey> czajkowski: they arent that much
<popey> 2nd hand or refurb
<popey> 1st gen ipad is fine, that's all I have
<czajkowski> showing 600 euros over here for the galaxy tablet which she has it in her head as she knows that name
<DJones> czajkowski: Agreed, I wouldn't recommend the Prime for somebody who doesn't plan on using it regularly for quite a while
<czajkowski> she hadnt heard of asus or HTC so trying to show her
<daubers> czajkowski: Had a look at the sony ones? They're a bit cheaper
<czajkowski> at the end of the day she's 15 and will be using it mostly in the house where she has wifi
<czajkowski> daubers: I wont recommend anyone buy Sony
<daubers> czajkowski: Because Sony are genitalia?
<davmor2> morning all
<davmor2> czajkowski: prod
<czajkowski> daubers: cause they are uber pricy and if they break cost a small fortue to repair
<czajkowski> davmor2: ello
<davmor2> czajkowski: they only cost a small fortune to repair if you take them back to sony
<czajkowski> true
<popey> czajkowski: have you seen how many 16GB ipad 1's there are on ebay
<popey> ~200 quid
<daubers> czajkowski: Â£300 http://www.pcworld.co.uk/gbuk/sony-s-tablet-pc-16gb-11318187-pdt.html?srcid=867&cmpid=comp~Google~~11318187&istCompanyId=9a35962d-802d-4e67-9721-0a3328ca1f02&istItemId=itarpmti&istBid=t&gclid=CM-j5pf4xbACFQ8htAodGiioVw
<daubers> (can be updated to ICS)
<popey> i wouldn't touch a sony tablet either
<popey> their customer support is apalling
<czajkowski> daubers: ah ok
<daubers> heh :) We have one in the office. Hardware seems ok, but sony are a bit nobbish
<czajkowski> thats was one thing I didnt know she has heard of ICS so wondered if she bought pre ICS could she update it to that ?
<daubers> czajkowski: Some can, some can't
<oimon> its just taken me hr and a half to change some settings on some ibm blades remotely :0\
<czajkowski> daubers: cheers
<daubers> czajkowski: In all honesty, with tablets I'd go into a shop and play with them
<daubers> much like PC's, until you've held one and played with it, you won't really know
<DJones> I'm waiting for Jelly Bean updates :)
<czajkowski> daubers: aye not a great selection in pc world which is whats close to her.
<czajkowski> but am trying to get her to not rush into it
<daubers> czajkowski: Go into HMV
<czajkowski> thanks folks though
<czajkowski> daubers: our HMV doesnt stock them :)
<daubers> hah! HMV in reading has 2 counters full of tablets
<daubers> It's starting to put boots to shame
<daubers> DJones: I'm potentially waiting for a) Some scan results and b) the nexus 7" tablet that's rumoured
<DJones> daubers: I had a play with a couple of 7" tablets and found they were not quite big enough for any regular use, it was sort of part way between a phone and a tablet, didn't quite do either as well as I'd hoped
<daubers> DJones: I might need one more as an electronic diary/todo list than anything else (phone is just a touch too small)
<popey> http://dilbert.com/strips/comic/2012-02-23/
<popey> amusingly that comic strip appeared with an advert for the galaxy note in the bottom right the other day
<daubers> popey: It's what I used to use my palm for
<daubers> (original palm thing, not the phone :) )
<DJones> daubers: I thought you meant you scribbled notes in ink on your palm then
<gord> oh wow, dilbert still exists
<daubers> DJones: I did that too... but stopped when it started running in the rain
<popey> I still have a Palm
<daubers> I have a Tungsten T in a box somewhere. But all the syncy software stopped working
<diplo> the few people I know who have notes in regards to Dilbert really like them
<daubers> Hmm... didn't realise you can get wireless HDMI monitors
<popey> over the last couple of weeks we have started to get a lot more spam calls at home
<popey> had one from an indian guy about windows viruses and told him to fsck off
<popey> still keep getting calls, but they're silent
<popey> then hang up
<brobostigon> :(
<popey> no number "Unavailable, out of area"
<brobostigon> had a few here also.
<popey> nothing I can do is there?
<brobostigon> other than tps, i doubt it.
<popey> tps cant do anything about non-UK calling
<brobostigon> true, yes.
<daubers> popey: Setup something to screen your calls
<popey> such as?
<daubers> popey: Or keep a log of when you're getting them and speak to BT
<daubers> asterisk?
<popey> I am not with BT
<daubers> VM?
<popey> yes
<popey> I'm not inclined to install asterisk
<daubers> Then speak to VM :)
<popey> well yes, I can figure that bit out myself
<popey> I was looking for alternative solutions
<daubers> When I had a similarish problem, BT asked for a log of times when we were getting called. No guarentee of a solution, but it helps them track the call
<brobostigon> i tend to write the number down also. on the basis, i can find a solution, to filter those malicious numbers.
<davmor2> popey: 1.50 month to have spam calling cut out iirc that gets rid of a lot of them
 * popey tweets vm
<davmor2> popey: you'll need to check I know bt do it so vm should have something similar
<daubers> popey: BT can also block calls to your phone from withheld numbers
<daubers> dunno if VM do the same
<popey> no number shows though
<popey> would be nice to just say "block calls from outside the UK"
<gord> i get enough spam calls on my phone that i installed an app that rejects all calls from unknown numbers. but its android so the app kind of sucks
<dwatkins> ali1234: do you (or anyone else) know if the 'blue people' issue with flash/youtube is resolved with the new version, 11.2.202.236?
<gord> dwatkins, turning off hardware acceleration fixes that does it not?
<daubers> popey: As for the silly end of the scale.... change your number or hire a secretary :)
<dwatkins> gord: it does, yeah - not an ideal solution, so I'm hoping it's actually fixed in the latest release
<gord> would be nice, anything to make flash a little less terribad
<popey> http://www.silentgard.com/
<popey> *sigh*
<directhex> aspnet fail
<daubers> popey: You could get yourself a premium rate number and make some money from them?
<dwatkins> I look forward to the day everything uses HTML5.
<directhex> dwatkins: that doesn't affect what runs server-side
<dwatkins> directhex: server-side in what sense?
<directhex> dwatkins: wouldn't help popey!
<dwatkins> I meant everything in terms of 'everything which currently uses flash content' ;)
<dwatkins> ah I see, I wasn't referring to popey's link
<dwatkins> not good that it discloses all that information, either, but that's another issue
<daubers> popey: Interesting that it's just the homepage borked
<daubers> http://www.ukdatait.co.uk/callblocker/
<daubers> http://www.silentgard.com/register.aspx even
<jochen1727> hi all
<jochen1727> it s strange to post my question here but i do it
<jochen1727> i m frenh and im going to go to UK, i m young (25), which city recommand me?
<jochen1727> srry for my english :-)
<popey> for tourism or work?
<jochen1727> for tourism
<popey> how long will you be here?
<jochen1727> 2 weeks 1 month
<popey> oh, plenty of time to visit lots of cities âº
<dwatkins> jochen1727: I reccomend Oxford :)
<brobostigon> :)
<jochen1727> dwatkins: okay , why?
<popey> jochen1727: http://www.nerdydaytrips.com/ might be useful
<dwatkins> jochen1727: it's a beautiful city, and there are lots of things to do there
<jochen1727> dwatkins: okay
<jochen1727> tou recommand me youth hostels?
<jochen1727> you recommand me youth hostels
<jochen1727> ?
<dwatkins> not specific ones, no - I used to live near there
<dwatkins> they are generally very good, though
<jochen1727> it s not expensive
 * dwatkins goes to lunch
<dwatkins> have a nice trip :)
<czajkowski> popey: oh nice site!!
<jochen1727> i heard that
<jochen1727> dwatkins: camping?
<jochen1727> but camping with rain !!!!!
<jochen1727> i am afrfaid!!!!
<jochen1727> lool
<jochen1727> afraid srry
<jochen1727> i want to improve my pook english level
<jochen1727> arffff
<jochen1727> poor
<diplo> Nothing like talking people face to face and typing with people I guess
<diplo> talking to*
<diplo> The more you do it, the more it will become more natural
<jochen1727> which hosting recommand me ???not very expensive if possible????
<diplo> My French is rubbish, I can understand it and read it. I Can hardly speak it or write it :/
<diplo> Web hosting ?
<diplo> I've used GoDaddy for some very cheap hosting with lot's of bandwith/disc space.
<diplo> I run a vps now so couldn't be up to date with anything else
<jochen1727> ohhh wich accommodation, hosting camp?
<jochen1727> not web hosting
<jochen1727> it s a mistake
<jochen1727> srry
<diplo> lol ok, Did wonder why the subject changed.
<davmor2> jochen1727: I recommend, York, London and going to the Computer Museum at Bletchley Park
<daubers> jochen1727: If you're after youth hostels, have a look at http://www.yha.org.uk/
<jochen1727> daubers: thanks
<diplo> Camping is great in the UK albeit it can be expensive in places, but with this whether I'd go with Hostels like the others have suggested.
<jochen1727> i heard hostel are very expensive?
<jochen1727> YHA hostels?
<daubers> yha in oxford seems to be suggesting Â£20odd a night, which is pretty cheap for accomodation
<jochen1727> okay
<davmor2> jochen1727: Hostel aren't as expensive as hotels,  but it can depend, you are best off having a look at the hostels hotel and campsite to decide which are the best/cheapest on offer
<jochen1727> a particulary YHA in oxford?
<daubers> jochen1727: Oxford is in the south east on their map
<jochen1727> i m afrais too they are many french, thats while i don t going to London
<jochen1727> affraid
<jochen1727> thy are too french at london
<jochen1727> like i want to improve my english
<jochen1727> it s not good with frenchs and it very expensive
<jochen1727> london
<davmor2> jochen1727: On the other hand it does have Loads to see and do, york is the same but again loads to see and do
<jochen1727> you re nice to help me
<jochen1727> okay for york
<jochen1727> i m going to eat
<jochen1727> thks all Merci beacoup ^^
<jochen1727> beaucoup
<davmor2> jochen1727: Oxford is a good bet less to do but lots to see plus bletchley isn't that far away and that is a great day out
<ali1234> bug 882274
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 882274 in unity-2d (Ubuntu) "Community engagement is broken" [Undecided,Opinion] https://launchpad.net/bugs/882274
<diplo> Bad day bigcalm :)
 * bigcalm grrrrs
<diplo> heh
<diplo> I'll probably be doing it later
<davmor2> bigcalm: on a plus note I got a nice new HD led acer monitor for Â£99
<bigcalm> That's nice
<davmor2> bigcalm: I thought so, Â£179.00 reduced to 110, then 10% off cause it was the last one, ie the showroom model :)
<MooDoo> hello davmor2
<davmor2> hello MooDoo you sciving wretch, 'Ow am ya?
<MooDoo> davmor2: cracking lad, :)
<davmor2> MooDoo: everytime I see you type that I picture you saying it in a Wallace stylee voice
<MooDoo> davmor2: lol, wednesleydale :)
<davmor2> MooDoo: only issue is I always expect cheese gromit to follow it :D
<bubu\a> anyone in here with a uk netflix account getting US content?
<gord> sure would be nice if file roller just automatically ignored __MAXOSX folders..
<bigcalm> Would be nice if .jar files were associated with Java by default :S
<bigcalm> Not treat them as archives
<gord> can't you set it up to do that?
<gord> oh by default, didn't think we installed java by default
<bigcalm> Well, when Java does get installed, it would be nice to have .jar files then associated with Java
<bigcalm> Without the user having to do anything else
<bigcalm> Is Libre Office installed by default?
<bigcalm> Doesn't that use Java?
<ali1234> no
<bigcalm> I think my confusion comes from OpenOffice being a Sun product, as was Java
<ali1234> it used to use java
<ali1234> now it only needs it for some tiny parts
<bigcalm> Oh, so I'm not completely insane
<ali1234> java sucks anyway
<bigcalm> Of course it does :)
<ali1234> you know what else sucks?
<ali1234> bzr
<bigcalm> PHP?
<ali1234> i've decided it's the CVS for people who hate CVS
<bigcalm> My dyson?
<bigcalm> o.O
<ali1234> since it doesn't support bisect or cleaning up history it is basically impossible to use the history it creates for anything at all
<ali1234> so it might as well not exist
<gord> there is a plugin for bisect
<ali1234> seems the only practical use for it is people who have been told they should use a CVS, but don't actually understand why or how
<ali1234> gord: yes, and it doesn't work
<ali1234> it doesn't work for two reasons, only one of which can be fixed in the code
<davmor2> ali1234: write a bug rather than whine about it, it's the only way it is likely to improve
<gord> oh well, maybe walls of text on irc will fix it
<ali1234> davmor2: the bug was reported 2 years ago
<davmor2> ali1234: the history works fine here so maybe you use it differently to me
<ali1234> i don't for a second believe that my ranting will fix the problem
<davmor2> ali1234: I'm a pretty basic user of bzr to be fair
<ali1234> however, it might alert some people to the fact that starting a new project with bzr is an incredibly bad idea
<ali1234> davmor2: i'll explain. suppose you find a bug in the latest version of your project. you want to know which revision introduced it. you bisect to find it. that means you picka  revision half way between head and the last known good version, and test it
<ali1234> now the problem with bzr is it doesn't allow you to edit history ever, by design
<ali1234> which means that if you pick a random revision from history it is extremely unlikely to compile
<ali1234> now the problem is that the bzr bisect plugin does not allow you to skip these broken revisions, and it won't even tell you which revision you are currently trying to test
<ali1234> which means, the bisect plugin is completely useless!
<ali1234> it can't do the one and only thing it is supposed to do
<davmor2> ali1234: or you are using bzr differently to the 100's of canonical staff that do this all the time
<ali1234> well it's certainly true that i've noticed that canonical finds it extremely difficult to find and fix regression bugs
<ali1234> this is almost certainly due to the way the tools work
<ali1234> they encourage writing everything over from scratch rather than fixing the existing bugs
<AlanBell> why would a random revision from history be unlikely to compile?
<ali1234> because if you commit with a typo there's no way to undo it
<ali1234> see http://sethrobertson.github.com/GitBestPractices/#sausage
<gord> bzr uncommit
<ali1234> also, it might compile, but then crash due to an introduced bug that was then fixed in the next commit
<DJones> Does Anybody know if there's a way to block any tweets menioning #Euro2012 without not looking at twitter or block users, and if so how?
<popey> yeah, i think certain twitter apps can do it
<popey> tweetdeck may be able to
<DJones> I'm already fed up of it
<MartijnVdS> Why? England lost?
<DJones> I'll have a look in destroytwitter settings
<popey> dunno, i dont care
<ali1234> the game hasn't even started yet
<ali1234> seriously though, when you're tired of people talking about banal sporting events, b-list celebs, and last nights reality TV shows, you're bored of twitter and should just leave and go on google+ instead
<MartijnVdS> Then you get Alans talking about Ubuntu
<popey> and get flooded with fab talking about it
<gord> you also get me talking about japanese candy and not much else!
<MartijnVdS> popey: Put him in an 'ignore' circle ;)
<MartijnVdS> or Laney talking about Bristol
<popey> he is in a circle called "noisy"
<gord> just him and mr noisy?
<ali1234> apparently i don't follow any of those people
 * AlanBell has a circle called noisy with just fab in it
<gord> must make mr men profiles
<Laney> :3
<Laney> MartijnVdS: I'm back now, so no more Bristol posts :(
<Laney> I could share my pictures!
<MartijnVdS> Laney: you could
 * MartijnVdS posts in Dutch sometimes.. in English other times
<MartijnVdS> does G+ offer to translate? (GMail does)
<brobostigon> on android, you could just pipe it into translate app.?
<MartijnVdS> probably
<brobostigon> i think it is called share.
<directhex> i just ndon't use g+
<directhex> twitter it is. except for baby photos, which go on facebook
<MartijnVdS> Oooh, lightnings
<popey> AlanBell: same here âº
<davmor2> popey, AlanBell: I just dropped him from my circles in the end I found that if he has anything really good to say everyone else in my circles comments on it or reposts it :)
<davmor2> popey, AlanBell: thanks for being my fab filter keep up the good work :)
<zlx> Hey, I just brought a new keyboard which doesn't seem to work in Ubuntu. After some googling I believe I've found a patch (in unified format) which should apparently fix the issue. Where's the best place for me to find out how to apply it? Cheers
<MartijnVdS> zlx: where did you find the patch?
<MartijnVdS> what kind of keyboard is it?
<zlx> Trust GXT 18, the patch was in this post on this mailing list ( http://www.digipedia.pl/usenet/thread/19505/19241/#post26557 )
<AlanBell> davmor2: glad to be of service
<MartijnVdS> zlx: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Kernel/Compile -- but be sure to also file a bug so the next version of Ubuntu gets this built in
<zlx> @MartijnVdS: is it not just possible for me to patch over the linux-header rather than having to compile the kernel?
<MartijnVdS> no
<MartijnVdS> because the driver needs to be fixed
<MartijnVdS> and that's in a kernel module
<zlx> Ah, ok. Thanks for the help, unfortunately I don't have the time to read more on this and have a go myself. Have a good day :)
<alcockell> Hi all..
<dogmatic69> which is the better option, postfix or send mail?
<popey> dogmatic69: i would use exim or postfix
<popey> not sendmail
<dogmatic69> cool
<popey> postfix is nice and easy
<dogmatic69> ye, I have used both and know one gave problems, just forgot which one :D
<dogmatic69> thanks popey
<directhex> sendmail is... a relic, whose reason to exist expired a decade ago, give or take
<dogmatic69> he
<dogmatic69> I looked at some google posts quick, people were saying in 2006 sendmail sucks
<alcockell> I remember borrowing the Bat fromt he library years ago - damn, who was it who published it?
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Tony] Unleash your creativity at OggCamp - http://tonywhitmore.co.uk/blog/2012/06/11/unleash-your-creativity-at-oggcamp/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=unleash-your-creativity-at-oggcamp
<popey> czajkowski: now is a good time to buy an ipad 1 :D
<popey> czajkowski: given apple just announced iOS 6 won't be available for that model, so there will be people offloading their iPad 1 to upgrade to a 2 or new one.
<marsilainen> hi all, how can I tell if I'm using a hardware accelerated driver?
<marsilainen> (for an ATI card)
<marsilainen> fglrxinfo says:
<marsilainen> display: :0  screen: 0
<marsilainen> OpenGL vendor string: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc.
<marsilainen> OpenGL renderer string: ATI Radeon 3000 Graphics
<marsilainen> OpenGL version string: 3.3.11627 Compatibility Profile Context
<marsilainen> so does that indicate that I'm using an accelerated driver?
<marsilainen> and if so, is that definitely the proprietary ATI driver and not something else?
<ali1234> fglrx is the proprietary driver
<marsilainen> ok
<ali1234> also known as catalyst
<marsilainen> it doesn't feel smooth when moving between virtual desktops in unity
<marsilainen> is that normal?
<ali1234> yes
<marsilainen> ok
<MartijnVdS> it seems to "halt" just before it's done?
<ali1234> unity is slow
<MartijnVdS> I get that too
<marsilainen> think I'm going to switch to gnome-shell
<ali1234> anything that doesn't use compiz 0.9 is a valid choice
<marsilainen> :)
<ali1234> that means anything that isn't unity
<marsilainen> yeah, I've been trying gnome-shell on my machine at work and it seems pretty nice
<marsilainen> so I'll try that here too
<ali1234> i don't care for it's lack of multimonitor workspaces
<brobostigon> gnome-shell 3.4.1 is pretty slick, and many early problems, have been fixed.
<ali1234> but none of the design problems
<brobostigon> i can think of a few, but nothing huge.
<MartijnVdS> is it configurable yet?
<brobostigon> define?
<ali1234> with extensions it is
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: with tweak tool, you can configure most basics.
<ali1234> you can change fonts and theme
<brobostigon> icon theme,
<ali1234> you can't move around any ui components without extensions
<brobostigon> overall theme, window bar theme.
<ali1234> you can configure the window buttons with dconf
<brobostigon> ali1234: that is within tweak tool now.
<marsilainen> my icons look blurry in gnome-shell for some reason
<marsilainen> maybe they are being sized up
<marsilainen> anyway, need reboot...
<brobostigon> also, i think the only biggie issue now, is sometimes, even in low system load, under 0.5 , alt-tab changes, just delay-lag just abit, insted of being instant.
<marsilainen> well gnome-shell is performing a little better than unity
<marsilainen> TBH my graphics card may not be the best...
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: which gnome-shell version have you got?
<brobostigon> not MartijnVdS , sorry.
<brobostigon> marsilainen: which gnome-shell version have you got?
<marsilainen> brobostigon: 3.4.1
<marsilainen> my gfx is only on-board Radeon 3000 on the motherboard
<marsilainen> so I suspect it's that more than anything
<brobostigon> marsilainen: that should be pretty good, it is much improved in performance. over earlier versions.
<marsilainen> sure
<brobostigon> i am on my eeepc, so primitive, intel inntegrated. and it works almost perfectly.
<marsilainen> sure :/
<marsilainen> I mean, it's not bad
<marsilainen> just not as smooth as I expected
<brobostigon> :)
<marsilainen> maybe I expect too much
<brobostigon> :(
<brobostigon> well, we can never have perfection.
<marsilainen> I don't really know what's acceptable...
<marsilainen> yeah
<marsilainen> I guess I need to see it running on some other people's machines to compare
<marsilainen> in any case I'm going to give gnome-shell a try for a while to see how I like it
<marsilainen> I like the fact that it creates as many virtual desktops as you use
<brobostigon> marsilainen: you will like ow it deals with workspaces, :)
<marsilainen> the default 4 in unity is never enough for me!
<brobostigon> :)
<brobostigon> also i like, how alt-tab seperates by workspace, then app, then windows.
<marsilainen> sure
<marsilainen> I think I tweaked a compiz setting in unity to do similar
<marsilainen> but nice that it works out of the box
<brobostigon> agreed, it just feels right.
<marsilainen> yeah
<marsilainen> the default in unity was a pain
<marsilainen> not sure if they changed it in 12.04?
<brobostigon> there are similarities, where inside alt-tab, you see thumbnails of the windows.
<TheFred> hello
<brobostigon> hello TheFred
<TheFred> :)
<brobostigon> :)
<TheFred> im having a problem with xdotool and the HUD...
<brobostigon> !info xdotool
<lubotu3> xdotool (source: xdotool): simulate X11 keyboard/mouse input. In component universe, is extra. Version 1:2.20110530.1-3ubuntu1 (precise), package size 40 kB, installed size 152 kB
<TheFred> aha - so it may have issues with unity?
<brobostigon> no idea.
<TheFred> meh
<TheFred> im working on speech input solution, and xdotool just *wont* enter text into the HUD, everything else works fine
<brobostigon> i dont know xdotool.
<TheFred> give it a play.. its handy for automating routine tasks
<brobostigon> ok, i will put it on my list for tmrw.
<TheFred> lol
<TheFred> what else is on your list?
<brobostigon> TheFred: nuffield ortopedic centre, oxford. osteoporosis checkup,
<TheFred> ah
<TheFred> I think im going t have to live with the HUD problem, and hope users dont get irate
 * TheFred curses the day i spilt cffe on keybord
<ali1234> you could bypass that problem by using a virtual input device instead of xdotool
<TheFred> ali1234, thats a great idea
<TheFred> evemu-device seems the way to go
<ali1234> no, uinput is the thing you need
<TheFred> oh!
<ali1234> you can't address specific windows that way though
<TheFred> owww
<TheFred> just read that to, but thats not an issue really
<TheFred> Currently focusing on the currently focused window
<ali1234> really the proper way is to do it the way on screen keyboards do it
<TheFred> they dont have speech input tho...
<TheFred> or am i missing something
<ali1234> it doesn't matter, it's the same thing
<ali1234> if you use uinput you get a raw keyboard device that you can push events through but it has no concept of windows and focus
<TheFred> thats fine for my present needs
<ali1234> if you make it the way an on screen keyboard works you can register for events like "user selected input field"
<ali1234> then you can use that to switch modes
<ali1234> eg between command and text entry mode
<ali1234> that's something you'll probably want eventually so going down uinput path may be a pointless diversion
<TheFred> thats the distinction, at present i am focusing on speech input only, commands are a later step
<ali1234> AlanBell is our expert on on screen keyboards
<TheFred> well, at the moment i have an android app that does the heavy lifting of speech recognition, then its sent to the pc socket for xdotool to type out, im sure how an onscreen keyboard will help - im open to all suggestions
<TheFred> *im not sure
<ali1234> there is no onscreen keyboard
<ali1234> you just use the same APIs that they use
<TheFred> gotcha
<ali1234> you should ask AlanBell if onboard works with the HUD, and how it injects text into the input stream
<ali1234> that's what i'd do :)
<ali1234> for all i know onboard uses uinput
<TheFred> i almost frightened to ask, becuase last time i pinged i got got kicked ...
<ali1234> whut
<ali1234> nobody ever gets kicked from this channel
<ali1234> except that guy who did something once ages ago and is now kick-on-sight
<TheFred> I made a clumsy mistake and pasted user names into chat and it pinged everyone - call it a part of learning what i cant do with desktop automation...
<TheFred> AlanBell, can you answer some questions i have about screen keyboards?
 * TheFred holds breath
<ali1234> well you'll be auto-kicked by freenode if you paste huge amounts of text
<TheFred> ah, no, i was kicked because the act of pasting user names pings every name pasted
<ali1234> yes it does
<ali1234> that's the point of it
<TheFred> i didnt know that at the time, and spent a while appologising for a newbie mistool
<ali1234> anyway what your system has in common with an OSK is they are both software input methods as opposed to hardware keyboards
<ali1234> so they both need to inject input via software
<ali1234> and they both need some model of the windowing system
<TheFred> i understand
<TheFred> but for the present im relying on the user to have focused the cursor on where they want the text to appear
<ali1234> well yes
<ali1234> you can detect when that happens though
<ali1234> somehow
<TheFred> I've been getting friends/family to test it out, and they seem happy with it, except the HUD issue
<ali1234> another thing you could do, which is completely different, is implement keyboard profile using gadget-fs on the android device
<ali1234> then when you plug in the phone to any computer it will be detected as a keyboard
<TheFred> i had not considered that
<ali1234> you probably need a patched android kernel to do that though
<ali1234> possibly not though
<TheFred> yea, i just looked at my research notes and re-read that root would been needed for that
<ali1234> benefit would be it works on any computer with no drivers
<TheFred> since the later step of voice command is so huge im going to open-source it since so many people want so many different features
<TheFred> yea, i was avoiding driver at all costs, hence my use of sockets and xdotool
<TheFred> phase 1 is to release the package so users can install it via software center
<TheFred> between building a decent android app, and getting the pc side to work it can get a bit thorny...
 * TheFred goes off to learn more about packaging
<ali1234> yeah, with gadgetfs you need no software at all on the pc
<TheFred> really?
<ali1234> yeah
<ali1234> PC will think your phone is a keyboard
<TheFred> wow - info about gadgetfs is a bit thin
<ali1234> yes
<ali1234> however one of the example programs is a keyboard emulator
<TheFred> cool - im hunting for examples now..
<ali1234> i have no idea if you could get it working on an unrooted android phone
<TheFred> yea, thats the show stopper
<ali1234> http://www.linux-usb.org/gadget/
<TheFred> thanks
<TheFred> thats another show stopper : requires device to be usb connected.
<ali1234> http://www.beyondlogic.org/usbnutshell/usb1.shtml
<ali1234> actually you could do it over bluetooth too
<ali1234> you need to use a different API though
<TheFred> my present solution works over wifi so users can dictate while making coffee, walking around, etc
<ali1234> eg http://www.valeriovalerio.org/?page_id=174
<ali1234> there's multiple ways to do it without drivers
<TheFred> the usb needing root is less of an issue with newer devices because they have host mode, which can be tweaked
<ali1234> host mode is specifically not what you want
<ali1234> keyboards are not host
<TheFred> i know:), but its that level of functionality that would be needed
<ali1234> not at all, gadgetfs is completely different
<TheFred> damit, now i've been searching google all day for python and android questions it seems to have tainted my search results for packaging python programs:(
<TheFred> ali1234, thanks for your input, its appreciated (no pun intended)
<TheFred> hmm, creating .deb files is not straight forward
 * TheFred goes for coffee
<AlanBell> hi TheFred
<TheFred> aha
<TheFred> hello
<TheFred> I was wondering if i am chosing the best tool when it comes to remotely entering text
<AlanBell> oh speech input to HUD, great I was hoping someone would do that :)
<AlanBell> that probably isn't the best way to do it if you want to automate the HUD
<TheFred> hehe it had its thorny moments, but getting text into the HUD is a real pain. im using xdotool but it wont work on the HUD
<TheFred> no, automation is not the goal really. my first step is simple voice input
<AlanBell> use the dbus api, that way you can get all the possible options and create a grammar for the recognitino engine
<TheFred> aha
<AlanBell> then you can use the api to poke it to press the most likely menu option
<TheFred> thats great food for thought
<AlanBell> are you using something that wants JSGF grammar files?
<AlanBell> like pocketsphinx
<TheFred> no, for now im keeping it very simple, Im using an android app to do the speech recognition
<AlanBell> running it on Ubuntu or on a phone?
 * AlanBell hasn't read all the scrollback
<TheFred> on a phone, which sends it to a socket for a python program to read and punch into via xdotool
<AlanBell> ah ok, I was looking at doing some HUD specific stuff with greater recognition accuracy by knowing all the available things you can say
<TheFred> Im digesting everything i can about packaging my python program and its dependancies into a .deb for launchpad
<TheFred> yes - thats a later goal
<TheFred> so if the phone app mis-hears me the best match is performed
<AlanBell> well I doubt you would be able to pass the grammar back to the phone easily
<AlanBell> but in principal you could swap the phone bit for pocketsphinx anyhow
<AlanBell> there are some specific hacks to get onboard to float above the HUD and dash, but I don't think they relate to input events, just the user interface
<TheFred> if i do that im depriving my self of any form of income from the app tho
<TheFred> my plan is to sell the android app for a very small sum, and open up the pc side
<AlanBell> ok
<AlanBell> I don't know what recognition engine android uses anyhow
<TheFred> its all done on googles servers and seems to work very well
<AlanBell> ah, ok like siri on apple stuff
<TheFred> yes
<TheFred> the more its used the better it seems to get
<TheFred> I am using it here to save me from typing
<TheFred> all I have to do is talk and the text appears press enter
<TheFred> I find it works best with a small calls between each word
<TheFred> lol
<TheFred> see - its nearl perfect - it heard calls when i said pause
<marsilainen> I bet its spelling is better than mine too :)
<TheFred> it seems to depend on how i try to talk
<TheFred> the best results seem to come from stopping to mentaly compose what you are about to say
<TheFred> and is another reason why i want to get voice input nailed down before i move onto voice commanding
<AlanBell> it sounds like an interesting project
<TheFred> AlanBell, do you have any beginners guides for dbus API?
<AlanBell> and continuous speech recognition just isn't anywhere close with any of the engines we have
<AlanBell> install d-feet it is a dbus explorer
<TheFred> sadly true - the app i created is a 'press to listen' so the users compose a sentence at a time, instead of a paragraph
<TheFred> thanks - i'll look at d-feet now
 * TheFred goes off - brb
<AlanBell> file-connect to session bus
<AlanBell> then com.canonical.hud is the thing to look for
<TheFred> thank you for that it is appreciated
<mgdm> is Scribus even half-usable? Been a while since I tried
<TheFred> oh noes! i've forgotten my gpg passkey
<mcphail> TheFred: it is "password123", just like mine
<TheFred> nope
<TheFred> :(
<TheFred> hmm, guess i'll have to make another
#ubuntu-uk 2012-06-12
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Stuart Langridge] Ten love songs specifically by Dolly Parton all of which are better than I Will Always Love You - http://www.kryogenix.org/days/2012/06/11/ten-love-songs-specifically-by-dolly-parton-all-of-which-are-better-than-i-will-always-love-you
<mrgt_> having a problem setting up my HP Photosmart C4780 printer in 12.04 via USB. Isntalled hplip but still no luck. Anyone able help?
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Ubuntu App Developer Goings On - http://www.jonobacon.org/2012/06/12/ubuntu-app-developer-goings-on/
<Azelphur> Anyone about who knows how to set up netbooting and is willing to help me for a little while? :)
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: at 3:38am? :P
<Azelphur> or 6am
<Azelphur> *shrug*
<MartijnVdS> but.. netbooting
<MartijnVdS> PXE?
<Azelphur> something like that
<Azelphur> basically I just have a .img file and want everything to boot off it
<MartijnVdS> an .img file.. hmm
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: I'm assuming you've found http://www.syslinux.org/wiki/index.php/PXELINUX
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: and https://help.ubuntu.com/community/DisklessUbuntuHowto
<Azelphur> I know from experience that DisklessUbuntuHowto is extremely wrong and out of date
<MartijnVdS> ok
<Azelphur> but the first one could be good :)
<Azelphur> that's the problem, a lot of the documentation is really out of date
<MartijnVdS> that's "client side" (bootloader that's pushed over PXE)
<Azelphur> and doesn't work with the software that ships with modern distros
<MartijnVdS> This then? https://help.ubuntu.com/community/PXEInstallServer
<Azelphur> that could be fun too :)
<Azelphur> oops :P
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] The Art of Community Second Edition Released - http://www.jonobacon.org/2012/06/12/the-art-of-community-second-edition-released/
<knightwise> hey everyone
<MooDoo> morning all
<DJones> Morning, another beautiful day
<diplo> Morning all
<czajkowski> aloha
<DJones> Morning czajkowski
<DJones> & diplo
<knightwise> morning everyone
<awilkins> popey, Was the "question mark" icon for an unknown app meant to disappear in recent unity updates?
<awilkins> I just have a transparent icon in it's place now, it just looks like an empty patch in the quickbar
<awilkins> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/10616420/missing-question-icon.png
<mungojerry> how cold does it have to be to see your own breath?
<DJones> mungojerry: Depends how humid it is
<DJones> I guess you're cold
<diplo> I was a bit cold last night, leather sofa was bloody cold and kids said they were cold and that rarely happens
<diplo> So had a couple hours of heating :)
<DJones> I was the opposite, roasting, shorts on, door wide open until about 10pm
<DJones> and wasn't as if I was doing anything to keep me warm, was just sat on the couch watching tv
<JamesTait> Morning all! :D
<diplo> I normally am, either coming down with something or it was just bloody cold :)
<popey> awilkins: i have seen that also, but not often
<awilkins> popey, I just can't be bothered to re-login to see if it happens again
<popey> awilkins: bug 772986
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 772986 in unity "Unity launcher single missing/invisible/blank icon" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/772986
<awilkins> popey, This is nvidia hardware with the proprietary driver if it's any help
<awilkins> How abou this one : if you have a double-wide window carefully arranged to occupy the full screen width, clicking it's launcher icon moves it's right edge to the right hand screen
<awilkins> e.g. using rdesktop with specified geometry 3360 wide on a dual 1680x1050 screen
<awilkins> So you end up with half on this desktop, half on the next
<popey> yeah, windows moving about is a pain
<popey> i get that when windows are overhanging one desktop to another
<popey> thats a compiz bug IMO and probably already filed but under some other description
<popey> bug 874146 perhaps
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 874146 in compiz (Ubuntu) "New windows open on the wrong monitor" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/874146
<awilkins> popey, Oh the thing where you drag to a second window with different (smaller) geometry
<awilkins> I see that at work where my second monitor is smaller than first, when window is larger than second monitor
<awilkins> It snaps back to the first monitor
<awilkins> Or jumps a screen-width or so to the right off the screen and you have to drag it back
<popey> yes
<popey> i get that a fair bit
<awilkins> I don't get this at home where my screens are the same geometry
<AlanBell> it seems to have to fit on the smaller monitor entirely for the grid snap thing to put it on that monitor
<awilkins> Yes, one workaround is to manually resize the window smaller before you drag it
<AlanBell> I often pull a maximised window from the big monitor and want to maximise it on the smaller one using the top bar and grid snap
<awilkins> Likewise
<TheFred> hello
<DJones> Morning TheFred
<TheFred> Good morning
 * DJones debates, flowers or chocolates for an anniversary
<bigcalm> Beep
<popey> boop
<popey> (C) Acorn
<bigcalm> :)
<bigcalm> Hayley wasn't too impressed with my new Facebook photos
 * popey hasn't seen them
<bigcalm> :O
<bigcalm> Check my timeline
<popey> haha
<bigcalm> I think having a shave improved the 2nd one
 * TheFred is still trying to boot himself this morning
<bigcalm> Has anybody managed to confirm the mysql login thing on ubuntu?
<AlanBell> yes
<bigcalm> while true;do mysql -u root -pfoo;done
<AlanBell> the fix is released, an update sorts it out
<bigcalm> Not managed to get in on any of my servers yet
<bigcalm> Indeed, not installed it everywhere yet. I want to see it happen!
<AlanBell> worked fine on my laptop running precise until I updated it
<bigcalm> I'm trying to make it happen on my bytemark server running 10.04
<AlanBell> servers set to automatically apply security updates will already be fixed
 * popey tests cheese
<popey> bigcalm: see my timeline âº
<AlanBell> popey: you are making my phone buzz, stop it!
<popey> excellent
<bigcalm> popey: I think I'm in love!
 * bigcalm cracks up
<bigcalm> I'm surprised by the negative comments on the cat video
<MartijnVdS> popey: can it do that on video too?
<MartijnVdS> popey: Because hangouts :)
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<TheFred> good morning brobostigon
<brobostigon> good morning TheFred
<bigcalm> Good morning paracetamol
<brobostigon> yeah, mixed with codeine here.
<bigcalm> I had a sneaky McD's breakfast wrap. I think this is karma
<brobostigon> ah.
<TheFred> meh - there's a few tutorials about getting starting with quickly for developing ubuntu applications, but when i run quickly edit i get gedit with all the python et al opened, but im really unsure where *my* code should go
<mattt> morning morning morning
<brobostigon> morning mattt
<mattt> hey brobostigon, how you today ?
<czajkowski> http://news.sky.com/home/uk-news/article/16245551  good to see
<davmor2> morning all
<davmor2> czajkowski: prod, how's your back
<czajkowski> davmor2: sore :/
<DJones> czajkowski: No wonder you're back is sore is davmor2 keeps prodding it
<davmor2> DJones: czajkowski will happily confirm I only ever prod her upper arm
<czajkowski> yes this is true and then I end up with a bruise
<DJones> Ouch
<brobostigon> mattt: same as yesterday, but my bad skin, that was yesterday, is alittle more broken, and you?
<mattt> brobostigon: woah, a lot of info
<mattt> brobostigon: i'm pretty good ... why the bad skin?
<brobostigon> mattt: where?
<brobostigon> mattt: i have had a runny nose etc, so i probably had bugs inside me, and it has started to affect my eczema, as the type of eczema i have is atopic, it is more vulneralbe than normal to such infection.
<czajkowski> DJones: ah I bruise really easily
<DJones> czajkowski: That sounds like my wife, she bruises very easily, sometimes it looks like I've been beating her up when the dog has jumped on her
<czajkowski> mum is the same, she gets some odd looks at times, she could walk into the side of a table and 15 mins later be up in a bruise
<czajkowski> looks bad :(
<DJones> Sounds the same
<czajkowski> low in iron
<czajkowski> more meat!
<DJones> She's definatly not a vegetarian
<mattt> i bruise easily
<mattt> great excuse for me to go to those all you can eat brazil places :P
<czajkowski> mattt: oh yes they are nice
<czajkowski> we go to them in london down at the O2
<czajkowski> come away very stuffed
<directhex> i've only been to one of those
<directhex> in cowley
<directhex> it was a bit dingy, but there was lots of meat
<daubers> Is it bad that most of the time these days when I see a new Apple/Google/Microsoft release I just go "Oh, new problems" and ignore it?
 * popey shrugs
<diplo> I've just come back from the mortagge advisor with a very odd looking popey staring at me :(
<czajkowski> popey: those pics are a bit um.... disturbing :)
<bigcalm> czajkowski: Hayley didn't like my photos either
<czajkowski> bigcalm: heh
<ingegnere_> hello everybody!  i was writing on this chat some days ago 'cause i found a BUG during the installation of UBUNTU 12.04 on my deskpc Fujitsu ESPRIMO HP300!
<ingegnere_> actually is NOT possible for me to initiate the installation process 'cause i recived a kernel failure!
<ingegnere_> I wanna know if is it possible that this problem is already pointed out!
<ingegnere_> in addition i want to say that my pc is NEW! i bought it on this weekend and i try to install UBUNTU 12.04 from the same cd that i used with my laptop.
<ingegnere_> no devices were plugin, no usb, and everything new.
<brobostigon> do a search on launchpad.com/ubuntu within the bugs.
<ingegnere_> i put the CD, the computer starts reading the cd, icons on screen are showed...the keyboard lights start to flashing and the pc freeze with some kernel-error!
<brobostigon> ingegnere_:  do a search on launchpad.com/ubuntu within the bugs.
<ingegnere_> i did it without significant result! so...
<brobostigon> file a new one, :)
<czajkowski> ingegnere_: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu
<ingegnere_> i have tryied with two different cd...same problem!
<czajkowski> ingegnere_: report the bug so and see what happens from there
<czajkowski> ingegnere_: where did you get the cd?
<ingegnere_> ok! i'm doing it! ;)
<ingegnere_> ok you can find my message in https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu!
<ingegnere_> thank you!
<czajkowski> which bug number?
<ingegnere_> Bug #1012071
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 1012071 in Ubuntu "FUJITSU ESPRIMO HP300" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1012071
<czajkowski> ingegnere_: where did you get the ubuntu cd from ??
<mondokey> mondo is still alive and kicking : http://www.mondorescue.org/downloads.shtml
<mondokey> but has anyone been able to install mondo's  gpg key under ubuntu 12.04 and the install mondo without any authentication errors?
<bubu\a> in bash script, how can I echo variables into a file?
<bubu\a> putting the echo in "" or '' causes the variable not to be rea
<diplo> echo $VARIABLE >> file.txt ?
<bubu\a> I'm trying to
<diplo> Works fine for me, just made sure
<diplo> so to test i did echo $PATH >> file.txt
<bubu\a> echo 'SUBSYSTEM=="net", ACTION=="add", DRIVERS=="?*", ATTR(address)=="$mac_add", ATTR(dev_id)=="0x0", ATTR(type)=="1". KERNEL=="eth*", NAME="$int_add"' >> /etc/udev/rules.d/70-persistant-net.rules
<bubu\a> so not quiute so simple as just variable...
<dwatkins> is $PATH set at this time, diplo?
<diplo> Well you didn't say that :D
<diplo> Funnily enough I was playing with udev rules the other day albeit on CentOS
<bubu\a> hehe
<bubu\a> i need to script to add new udev rules
<bubu\a> but all I take it all the actions need "" around them
<bubu\a> and then with the variable in there too
<diplo> I was tring to write something special/rubbish for usb pen drives
<bubu\a> im not doing it right
<diplo> Then thought sod it and wrote a bash script and bodged it
<diplo> I had loads of issues with mine bubu\a think it's why I gave up ( been a while )
<diplo> And all the blog posts were a few years old
<diplo> See if I can remember what I did now
<bubu\a> lol
<bubu\a> thx
<bubu\a> :)
<bubu\a> this would literally be falling over at the first hurdle of probably a very long script
<bubu\a> :(
<bubu\a> any luck diplo ?
<AlanBell> gosh, someone living in London can have RMS as a houseguest
<popey> NO PARROTS!
 * davmor2 hears the hoards racing to their local pet shop to get a parrot
<czajkowski> AlanBell: did he find his passport so he can fly?
<czajkowski> popey: do you have a new addition to the pet family ?
<popey> not yet
<czajkowski> close :)
<AlanBell> I am sure he will sort out a new passport (after being fingerprinted and iris scanned and photographed and all that put on an RFID chip)
<czajkowski> and if he objects he may be stranded :)
<ahayzen> Hi, I'm having an issue with the HUD reading the menubar from a PyGObject script. Which is the best IRC channel to ask for assistance? Thanks, Andy
<gord> ahayzen, probably #ubuntu-unity
<ahayzen> gord: Thanks :)
<diplo> bubu\a: Sorry stuck on the phone for last 20 mins
<diplo> Not found anything yet sorry
<meet> how long does the upgrade  from  11.10 to 12.04 take? how large is the download size?
<AlanBell> depends how much stuff you have installed on 11.10
<AlanBell> probably a gig or so of download at least
<meet> 1 gb? why? the normal full installation is less than that right?
<gord> if you haven't installed anything since installing 11.10, then it'll be around the same size as a cd
<gord> if you installed more stuff, it'll need to get more package to upgrade that stuff, so that inflates the download size
<meet> no i hv installed many other things. ok. And while upgrading if it is interrupted in between, what are the consequences?
<ali1234> the consequences will never be the same
<mattt> meet: interrupted how?
<mattt> downloaded interrupted?  that should be OK
<AlanBell> if it is interrupted whilst downloading packages you might be OK
<mattt> if you shut off your system mid way through an upgrade tho ... well .......
<AlanBell> interrupting whilst installing and configuring packages is less likely to have a pleasant outcome
<meet> like power failure or internet disconnection or manually if i click cancel etc..
<mattt> power failure is what i'd be concerned about
<mattt> it downloads updates in batches then will try to apply them i believe
<mattt> so if you have a failed download or whatever, the system will be able to determine that and act accordingly
<meet> btw i got the window asking whether i want to start with the upgrade.. i got a slow connection.. it says 4 hrs time will be needed.. so i guess i will put it up at night.. so at this stage if i cancel.. will it again start from the scratch?
<ali1234> no, it keeps the downloads
<meet> ok. in the checklist preparing upgrade and setting software channels is checked. It is at the download package stage. i am planning to cancel it now and redo at night? will it be fine?
<AlanBell> probably
<diplo> Anyone got any suggestions as to why mount -a could fail to load something from fstab
<ali1234> noauto tag
<diplo> general idea, loads by doing mount /dev/sdb1
<diplo> ah, good point
<diplo> :D
<diplo> I had to put that in there, hmmm
<diplo> I'll just hard code /dev/sdb1 for now until I write a better solution, cheers ali1234
<ali1234> "by linking social content and sharing directly to advanced business intelligence you can find the unicorn"
<mungojerry> ali1234, http://www.plainenglish.co.uk/examples/gobbledygook-generator.html ?
<davmor2> mungojerry: Only geeks stuck in the 90s still go for responsive management concepts. nice
<kvarley> Has anybody used bandwidthd or darkstat? If so, which would you recommend? If anybody has used any bandwidth monitoring software I'd also like to know about what you use. =]
<popey> MartijnVdS: have you seen songkick is now available for android?
<mattt> kvarley: think i used vnstat at one point
<kvarley> mattt: Thanks, the ones I mentioned have web interfaces which would be more useful for the current situation. However, I think I may use this vnStat on my system! Thanks =]
<hamitron> I used bandwidthd, was easy to setup.... but didn't really do what I wanted
<kvarley> hamitron: What did you want? And what do you think about security of it? Like all your data passes through it, so any chance of them stealing details, etc? I see its open source so it should be fine but you know - never can be too careful.
<hamitron> I didn't need to really consider security
<hamitron> it was just to monitor youtube usage
<hamitron> ;)
<hamitron> I can't remember what it didn't do
<hamitron> does it maybe not support dynamic ip clients or something?
<kvarley> hamitron: That may be it. I see IPs but not MACs on screenshots.
<hamitron> at the time, it was hassle, and I went for cutting the junk to maintain
<hamitron> with everything, to reduce work on a network that didn't matter
<davmor2> Muhahahaha http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VP1hrqIk_0Q&feature=related
<dogmatic69> anyone know where I can get reasonable rack cabinets, +- 12U -> 24U ?
<dogmatic69> used ones
<kaushal> Hi
<kaushal> Anyone using cssh tool?
<dwatkins> cluster ssh, kaushal?
<kaushal> dwatkins: yes
<kaushal> dwatkins: I am running cluster ssh in Ubuntu 11.10 using unity desktop shell
<livingdaylight> greetings
<kaushal> when i switch tab to other application and i return to cluster ssh to do a retile or press alt-r it doesnot align the xterm windows
<kaushal> Any clue?
<dwatkins> sorry no, I don't use unity.
<dwatkins> perhaps someone else has ideas, or you could ask on #ubuntu
<kaushal> ok
<kaushal> sure
<kaushal> dwatkins: Thanks
<popey> kvarley: can you put an ntp client on your openelec image please âº
<popey> hello livingdaylight
<ali1234> popey: http://www.ladyada.net/learn/breakoutplus/ds1307rtc.html
<ali1234> http://lxr.free-electrons.com/source/drivers/rtc/rtc-ds1307.c
<dwatkins> happy days
<dwatkins> I used to support machines which had Dallas chips on the motherboard which had to be moved between boards when they were replaced.
<dwatkins> The batteries were built into the chip, so they would eventually need replacing, too.
<ali1234> kaushal: that's probably bug 916542
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 916542 in unity (Ubuntu) "Unity spread "randomly" shuffles overlapping windows" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/916542
<kvarley> popey: Does adding ntp to the cmdline.txt file work?
<kaushal> ali1234: ok
<popey> kvarley: dunno, will try
<popey> also
<popey> it refuses to connect to my home linux box runnings amba
<popey> *samba
<popey> "connection refused"
<livingdaylight> hi popey
<kvarley> popey: Hmm, I'll have a look. I suspect it may be because certain things aren't in the cmdline.txt file. I haven't changed any binary files, just merely packaged the most basic form of OpenELEC into an image with a script so it may be a case of missing config! =]
<popey> wonder if it's timing out
<popey> well, it does give timeout messages
<livingdaylight> I got a new hd on which I installed Ubuntu. However, the most recent disc I had on me was v. 10.10 I subsequently upgraded distro by distro, i.e. 11.04 11.10, until I reached 12.04. Since then I got the recent LinuxFormat dvd with 12.04 on it. I wondered whether I should do a fresh install or am I fine? My concern is that the integrity of the installation could get corrupted by upgrading that many times
<popey> kvarley: is there any way I can get a shell open on it?
<popey> livingdaylight: "if it aint broke"
<kvarley> popey: Ctrl + Alt + F2 doesn't work?
<popey> nope
 * kvarley gets his pi
<livingdaylight> popey, it appears fine, but wondered whether things might be half-broke by that many upgrades.
<popey> not really
<livingdaylight> ok, thx
 * davmor2 is playing England: The Album 2010 as he is feeling particularly buoyed up at the moment
<MartijnVdS> "England: The Album 2010"?
<MartijnVdS> Is that an album full of versions of God Save the Queen and Rule Britannia?
<dwatkins> Danny Boy
<dwatkins> Perhaps the theme tunr from Only Fools and Horses is on the B-side.
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: and Auld Lang Syne as hidden bonus track :P
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: just to annoy ;)
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: http://www.covershut.com/back_covers/England-The-Album-2010-Back-Cover-42243.jpg
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: you get Queen as well? :)
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: http://www.bol.com/nl/p/538-wk-2010-voetbal/1000004008663311/#product_images
<dwatkins> MartijnVdS: nah, half the people don't know the words
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: no but it'll annoy the Scots, on a CD called "England: The Album" ;)
<dwatkins> the scots will just make their own version
<dwatkins> There will be at least one Pretenders song on it.
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: Shockingly they were an English Group :)  We've been sing we are the champions around football grounds as long as the song has been out :)
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: so have the Dutch :P
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: so has _anyone_ really ;)
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: Yeah but we heard the song before the rest of the world :D
<MartijnVdS> spotify:user:ertje20:playlist:2af1V2qRAu208iYuADOtQj
<MartijnVdS> we get "classics" like that
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: :)
 * Laney eyes bitfolk
<MartijnVdS> ?
<Laney> nutty packet loss
<Laney> try mtr orangesquash.org.uk
<dwatkins> ouch, yeah Laney
<popey> is the internet broken today?
<MartijnVdS> Not my internets
<Laney> the magic of TCP is keeping my IRC alive!
<Laney> also mosh
<popey> spot the bitfolk users âº
 * Laney wonders if it's better
<MartijnVdS> wouldn't that be "bitfolks"?
<MartijnVdS> or "bitfolkies"
<popey> or just "bit folk"
<dwatkins> hmmm, I've not tried mtr since switching to BeThere, I get brokenness on the first few (internal) hops
<davmor2> theres a lib called liblastfm now depending on how you see it initial will make you wonder whether it is a radio station of near swearing and lies, or people in beds being blown up
<bigcalm> Looks like I might be getting my boss' Thinkpad x301
<bigcalm> When, no idea. Something to look forward to though
<bigcalm> blast.fm!
<davmor2> bigcalm: li-blast.fm
<bigcalm> Damn, don't think I can buy an iPad2 case before work place day on Thursday
<bigcalm> Maybe it'll be ok in the laptop bag
<dwatkins> bigcalm: I keep mine in a neoprene netbook bag
<bigcalm> That's a good idea
<bigcalm> I have a sturdy leather case that also acts as a stand for my Motorola Xoom
<davmor2> bigcalm: Why do you have an ipad 2
<bigcalm> davmor2: app testing
<davmor2> bigcalm: Yeah, yeah, yeah ;)
<bigcalm> davmor2: I really feel nothing towards it. Which is a shame as it cost me enough. I thought I would be excited to have a new toy. Nothing...
<ali1234> i don't get what is exciting about tablets
<ali1234> they are just big phones that can't make phone calls
<dwatkins> or small computers with no keyboard
<ali1234> no, that's exactly what they aren't
<bigcalm> Depends how you use them
<dwatkins> oh?
<ali1234> they're not powerful enough to run modern operating systems
<bigcalm> I have an TerminalIDE on my Xoom. Dev wherever I go :)
<ali1234> they're also not equivalent to older computers because they lack technical documentation
<ali1234> at best they are a thin client for a real OS
<ali1234> but what's exciting about that?
<davmor2> ali1234: yes they are, quad cores at 1.5ghz is more than enough
<ali1234> it's as exciting as a monitor
<ali1234> no, quad core ARMs at 1.5ghz is not powerful enough
<ali1234> quad core x86-64 at 3GHz is a real computer
<ali1234> besides, there's no software on a tablet that can really take advantage of multiple cores
<ali1234> it's not like they can do multitasking, run productivity software or anything really
<dwatkins> I still find it fascinating that I can emulate a BBC Micro on my phone.
<dwatkins> (Beebdroid)
<bigcalm> This might do me http://www.play.com/PC/PCs/4-/19517437/-/Product.html
<ali1234> you can emulate anything up to a playstation 1 on most android phones
<ali1234> of course playing games on a touchscreen is totally awful
<dwatkins> yeah, I gather there are some bluetooth gamepads available, not sure how many nor if they're any good
<bigcalm> Yep, I hate playing Angry Birds, Cut the Rope, Where's my Water, etc on my tablets
<ali1234> yeah there's one problem with that
<ali1234> you;re sitting on the bus playing sonic with your bluetooth controller
<ali1234> that means you're not touching the phone
<ali1234> that means some scally can grab it and run
<popey> bigcalm: why?
<bigcalm> popey: sarcasm
<popey> oh
<davmor2> popey: I was gonna say he missed the sarcasm tags
 * bigcalm tickles popey
<popey> oooh
<popey> raspberry pi now has a beta stackexchange site like askubuntu
<dwatkins> ali1234: I guess it might be handy to have some way to attach it to yourself, not sure if many phones have that
<ali1234> popey: i saw that. pointless
<dwatkins> popey: excellent, I was wondering what's going on with the graphics stack
<bigcalm> Most Japanese phones have a point on the device that allows you to attach phone charms - they are nuts for them over there
<ali1234> every answer will be either "yes, see this identical question about debian" or "no"
<dwatkins> bigcalm: I was someone with a huge mirror on their phone once, they kept looking at themselves in it, too
<bigcalm> Haha
<dwatkins> *saw
<dwatkins> oops
<dwatkins> she might as well have gotten one of those mirrored phone screen covers
<MartijnVdS> phones have cameras these days
<MartijnVdS> they could just use the front-facing camera
<dwatkins> is there a problem on the wider internets, or does my ISP just not enjoy sending back traceroute pings to the mtr command?
<MartijnVdS> yes
<MartijnVdS> no problems on the Dutch interwebs
<MartijnVdS> No problems from NL to Bytemark
<MartijnVdS> (on ipv6)!
<dwatkins> perhaps it's just BeThere's routers not replying to mtr
<dogmatic69> what is the best way to look at a 200mb + text file from terminal?
<dogmatic69> thought nano was good but its choking on it
<popey> more or less
<dogmatic69> :/
<dogmatic69> is that a command?
<dogmatic69> or it is more or less good
<brobostigon> those are both commands.
<brobostigon> :)
<dogmatic69> cool, so cat file | more
<dogmatic69> or | less
<brobostigon> have a play.
 * dogmatic69 goes off to melt the cpu
<shauno> 'more filename' or 'less filename' work too.  you don't always have to abuse cats :)
<brobostigon> :)
<dogmatic69> ah, I got that from some tutorials on the net a while back
<dogmatic69> more seems much better
<dogmatic69> its instant, less has lag when going to the next line
<dogmatic69> would linux have a problem with files that have long lines?
<dogmatic69> I know gedit does not like it, but how about something like mysqlimport?
<dogmatic69> lines are say 6mb long
<dogmatic69> damn. tr is pretty damn efficient.
<soulnafein> Hello, what kernel version will 12.04.1 ship with?
<AlanBell> hi soulnafein
<AlanBell> 3.2.0-25 is the current precise kernel
<soulnafein> will it be update to 3.3.x ?
<AlanBell> might be a touch higher than that by the .1 release I guess
<soulnafein> *updated
<popey> it should be possible to use a quantal kernel
<soulnafein> because at the moment I have to use a mainline kernel, I assume there are drawbacks in doing so.
<soulnafein> that's due to this bug: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-video-nouveau/+bug/898784
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 898784 in xserver-xorg-video-nouveau (Ubuntu) "Distorted screen on MacBook Air 3,2 (GT216 10de:08a3)" [High,Triaged]
<soulnafein> popey, what would you do to avoid that problem. From what I read it seems unlikely that 3.2 will be patched with the fix for that bug.
<popey> what i did was get rid of my mac
<soulnafein> popey, I'm contemplating that :D
<soulnafein> popey, I guess apple hardware is not the prime candidate for linux installations
<soulnafein> but they are so pwetty!
<popey> indeed they are
<popey> I'd ask in #ubuntu-kernel what they suspect 12.04.1 will ship with
<popey> but probably be more people about during the working UK day
<soulnafein> cheers, I'll ask tomorrow morning
<bigcalm> Humm. Is it possible to use --no-clobber in wget on all but one file?
<bigcalm> Ah, it's easier to just delete a file before running wget :)
 * bigcalm puts php down for a moment
<bigcalm> Is it wrong that I use PHP for shell scripts?
<daftykins> whatever works i'm sure ^_^
<bigcalm> I used to do things in perl. That wouldn't have been sneered at
<bigcalm> My job is both the source and bane of my geek cred
<bigcalm> What's a good twitter client for the iPad?
<bigcalm> Almost called it an iPat - I'm blaming this very fine Belgian beer :)
<daftykins> i'd have felt better if you did ;)
<bigcalm> Tweetdeck is pants for the iPat
<bigcalm> Oops, there you go :)
<daftykins> makes me think that Apple delivered it to customers in a slightly different way than expected...
<bigcalm> The device looks physically nice, can't say it was pooped out ;)
 * bigcalm kicks Nationwide
<dogmatic69> why would 10% swap be used if there is 2.5gigs spare ram?
<daftykins> fail allocation?
<shauno> if they're pages that haven't been touched in eons, there may still be some benefit to swapping them out so the ram can be used for disk buffers & such
<dogmatic69> ok
<dogmatic69> I am only running a mysql import
<shauno> (you'll also see that when something used to be using a chunk of ram, but isn't anymore.  there's no rush to bring inactive pages back into play)
<dogmatic69> maybe linux decided its good to have the ram ready?
<bigcalm> watch free -m
<bigcalm> See if swap is changing size at all
<bigcalm> Or install gkrellm2 (or similar) and watch things happen in a nice graphical way
<Azelphur> I'm interested in diskless booting 8 machines via netboot using a specific drive image file, is this easy/possible? any suggestions?
<Azelphur> or how about fan control, I could do with some help on fan speed control if anyone knows how to do that :)
<dogmatic69> bigcalm: I been watching it in htop, pretty much fixed
<dogmatic69> ram is between 1500 and 1600 / 3800 and swap is 440 -> 445 / 4029
<dogmatic69> Azelphur: I can tell you how with something like an arduino :)
<dogmatic69> (fan speed that is)
<Azelphur> dogmatic69: haha
<Azelphur> building something is a bit beyond me
<dogmatic69> Azelphur: it would just be some sort of pwm
<Azelphur> although I wouldn't mind paying a small fee for it to be built :)
<dogmatic69> in theory you should be able to do it from bash or with c++ at least
<Azelphur> dogmatic69: yea, but the question is how, lm-sensors can see my fan, the bios can control fan speed
<Azelphur> so all the hardware is there, it's just how do I actually do it in Linux
<Azelphur> pwmconfig claims "There are no pwm-capable sensor modules installed"
<dogmatic69> sudo apt-get install fancontrol
<Azelphur> dogmatic69: yea, fancontrol is the daemon and pwmconfig generates the config file for fancontrol if I'm understanding things right
<Azelphur> but pwmconfig of course says I have no pwm-capable sensors :(
<dogmatic69> ill install them quick
<dogmatic69> one sec
<dogmatic69> apparently nor do I have pwm
<Azelphur> nobody has pwm \o/
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> which fans?
<daftykins> are you wanting to control
<Azelphur> Scythe Ultra Kaze (3000RPM edition)
 * dogmatic69 has 15 fans
<bigcalm> Popular
<Azelphur> dogmatic69: you have the same amount of fans I want to connect
<dogmatic69> next pc is getting water cooling
<dogmatic69> bigcalm: har har :D
<Azelphur> dogmatic69: this is water ;)
<dogmatic69> Azelphur: water == no fans...
<Azelphur> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/Photos/2012/June/IMG_20120606_180257.jpg
 * Azelphur is doing science
<dogmatic69> the whole point is no fans
<Azelphur> dogmatic69: noes, the whole point is to just be ridiculously OTT and overclock to ridiculous levels
<Azelphur> :D
<dogmatic69> he he
<dogmatic69> ah ok
<Azelphur> the rad has fans as you can see :)
<Azelphur> it will have 4 on each side, but right now I only have a 5 channel fan controller to stop them running at 3k rpm so most arn't hooked up
<dogmatic69> Azelphur: just connect a red wire direct to the ram. I believe higher +v is better.
<Azelphur> wat o.O
<ali1234> stacking fans doesn't do much you know
<Azelphur> ali1234: they arn't stacked, the rad has 4 fans on each side
<ali1234> it just creates turbulence
<gebbione> is there a way i can show the passwords managed withing ssh-agent?
<ali1234> gebbione: seahorse
<dogmatic69> Azelphur: I just fitted one of these http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=BB-007-AE
<Azelphur> dogmatic69: yea, thing is I'd like to do some custom stuff with cooling and fan control in software
<dogmatic69> well, in theory if these apps are not working and you are handy around some c / c++ you could use arduino and processing
<dogmatic69> even make your own touch screen control
<dogmatic69> or processing app to manage it
<gebbione> ali1234,  how can i show a private key password?
<Azelphur> dogmatic69: yea, my electronics knowledge is absolute 0
<ali1234> gebbione: you can't
<Azelphur> I had a bit of a look at it, but it doesn't seem like a beginner project xD
<dogmatic69> Azelphur: its a pretty simple setup, you just want to add something along the lines of a electronic light dimmer on each fan
<Azelphur> dogmatic69: do you already have one controlling your fans?
<gebbione> mhhh it lets me change the passphrase
<dogmatic69> Azelphur: nope, just that link I posted
<gebbione> but i cannot access the key when i use the same passphrase
<Azelphur> ah
<Azelphur> dogmatic69: see I want to do cool stuff, like set a target RPM (which will be overriden if temperatures go out of sane ranges)
<dogmatic69> ye
<Azelphur> so I can set the target RPM to 0, turning everything off, but if the temps go too high, it'll fire everything up again
<Azelphur> which would work great while I'm asleep
<ali1234> that makes no sense
<Azelphur> ali1234: if the computers idle, and I'm asleep, the fans don't need to run at all, the pump and ambient should keep everything cool at idle
<Azelphur> but, if something happens that causes my CPU usage to spike up while I'm asleep, I sure as hell want the fans to kick in
<ali1234> then there is no need to have software control
<Azelphur> how so?
<Azelphur> during the day I want the fans to run lol
<ali1234> what if the computer crashes?
<ali1234> oops, no fan control
<Azelphur> doesn't that happen anyway
<daftykins> i always thought about having a PC on the other side of a wall behind the desk :D
<Azelphur> (hense why my 8800GT melted recently)
<ali1234> no
<daftykins> then just run the cables through \o/
<ali1234> if you buy a fan controller it has temperature sensors
<Azelphur> yea, my current one has temp sensors
<Azelphur> but I don't think you can set a fans to turn off
<ali1234> just get a bigger radiator
<hamitron> I thought some let you pick the lowest rpm or voltage?
<Azelphur> *shrug*
<ali1234> http://grahamfrost.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/radiator.jpg
<Azelphur> lol
<hamitron> ali1234, so long as it is in chrome ;)
<Azelphur> ali1234: that's silly, I'm want the fans to run during the day >.<
<Azelphur> I should be able to control them in software
<Azelphur> You can do this in Windows(tm)
<ali1234> just get a big enough radiator so that you don't need fans
<hamitron> this room is near the water tank in the house, now if......
<Azelphur> ali1234: I can't mount any bigger of a radiator to my case obviously >.>
<ali1234> http://lh3.ggpht.com/_OMvQU4Z6QmI/TRP-fToyrJI/AAAAAAAABsE/7QMgQDTQEh4/radiator%5B4%5D.jpg
<Azelphur> lol
<hamitron> think of better ways to warm ones vitals
<hamitron> ;/
<Azelphur> so yea back on subject, I'm trying to get control of these fans in software \o/
<hamitron> I personally think you should make a separate system to control it
<Azelphur> yea, but as I said I know nothing about electronics so it's not my field at all
<hamitron> touch screen would be nice too
<Azelphur> needs to be done in software, which it should be able to be anyway
<hamitron> I just feel you need to make the electronics to do it in software on the PC, so may as well make the electronics to be even m0re cool
<Azelphur> hamitron: not really, I got the akasa smart splitters, atm I'm only trying to control one simple fan connected directly to the mobo though
<Azelphur> this should be possible
<hamitron> using the cpu fan header?
<daftykins> Azelphur: you totally strike me as the kinda person to go "Arduino time!"
<daftykins> then scurry off and make some fancy setup ;)
<Azelphur> daftykins: haha, I am only thing is that I don't have the experience to do it
<Azelphur> hamitron: using Chassis Fan 1 header
<daftykins> how are the fans on the radiator powered right now?
<ali1234> azelphur broke an arduino in under 5 minutes
<Azelphur> daftykins: external fan controller (Sentry LXE)
<daftykins> said controller doesn't have any probes or automation?
<Azelphur> daftykins: but the fan I'm trying to control is plugged directly to the mobo on CHA1
<hamitron> I thought them links I gave you Azelphur, seemed cool
<hamitron> is this 3 or 4 pin?
<Azelphur> it has probes, but no way of turning a fan off, and no way of controlling from software
<daftykins> 3 i bet
<Azelphur> hamitron: my fans are 3
<hamitron> aren't they a fixed 12V?
<hamitron> with monitor
 * hamitron shrugs
<Azelphur> hamitron: no idea, they are most definitely controllable by the header on the motherboard though, as I can do it from the bios, and with the fan controller
<hamitron> so you just need software for that
<Azelphur> exactly
<Azelphur> then I'd be all set
<Azelphur> assuming the smart splitters pass it through, which I assume they do :)
<hamitron> hang on
<hamitron> bad idea
<Azelphur> D:
<hamitron> you think the motherboard can handle that kind of load?
<Azelphur> hamitron: the smart splitters pull power from molex
<hamitron> smart splitters?
<Azelphur> but right now I'm just working with 1 fan, connected directly to the motherboard
<Azelphur> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Akasa-AK-CB002-PWM-splitter-smart/dp/B001J2YRUC/ref=pd_sxp_f_pt
<hamitron> they are the splitters I saw last time?
<Azelphur> yep
<hamitron> don't the yellow cables provide a fixed 12V to the fans with them?
<hamitron> directly from the PSU
<Azelphur> don't think so, the whole point of that cable is to read the power off the motherboard and plug things into them
<Azelphur> I could test and see if I can control the fan speed from the bios via one of those splitters to be sure
<hamitron> I suspect you'll need something to change the voltage supplied to the yellow cables on the molex
<Azelphur> hamitron: but yea, besides that I'm mainly asking how to get control of a single fan connected to the mobo
<Azelphur> as half the planet does xD
<hamitron> I think I'd just use them cables with your PSU, and buy some bolts to clamp your PC to the desk
<hamitron> and ear plugs
<hamitron> :D
<Azelphur> lol
<dwatkins> USB serial adapter -> D/A converter -> potentiometer?
<daftykins> i could post you one of the PIIIs i'm about to get rid of, never have temperature issues again!
<daftykins> :D
<dwatkins> not sure how you'd actually implement that, or whether you could just do it with two devices, but that's where I'd start with manual fan control.
<hamitron> rid of P3? :-o
<daftykins> yep
<hamitron> you wasteful being
<daftykins> hey they had a good run
<Azelphur> I have a P4 with nothing to do
<Azelphur> it's just sitting on a table
<dwatkins> I met some guys in Reading who recycle computers for a country in Africa. I forget which one exactly.
<daftykins> http://pastebin.com/sLdpD9Rh
<daftykins> that's what i've found so far and am getting rid of
<dwatkins> They get them reinstalled, tested etc. and sent in a container in batches. I guess they use linux.
<daftykins> dwatkins: neat
<hamitron> dwatkins, I tried to give a load away
<hamitron> and they demanded 1.6ghz or better
<hamitron> :/
<dwatkins> hamitron: ah, I see :-/
<Azelphur> dwatkins: fun
<daftykins> comes to something when even the charities can be picky eh
<dwatkins> anything older than that should probably be kept for posterity if it still works ;)
<hamitron> at the time I was using a 1.2ghz as my main pc
<hamitron> :D
<daftykins> daym
<hamitron> I cursed for days (and still am I guess), that comps I use are not good enough for kids in Africa
<hamitron> ;)
<daftykins> XD
<daftykins> my house in England is about to sell so i've started going through all my stuff in my parents house to reduce it all down as much as possible
<daftykins> good time to do it i think, ahead of moving out again
<hamitron> yeh
<daftykins> especially given all the crap that i've accumulated :D
<daftykins> i'd love to have very little by way of possessions
<hamitron> hang on, you are throwing that list out? :-o
<dwatkins> I used to dream of having very few things.
<Azelphur> I just found shiny, http://www.geek.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/steam_linux_email.jpg
<daftykins> hamitron: yep
<daftykins> can't be verified that though eh
<daftykins> unless the phoronix article has a mention of being given the full headers too
<hamitron> I'd buy some of that stuff to add to my pile
<daftykins> hamitron: you'd only have to pay postage ^_^
<hamitron> if you could be bothered to parcel up
<daftykins> though postage from the channel islands could be... interesting
<hamitron> ah damn
<hamitron> yeh
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> the hdd would be very useful
<daftykins> i'm quite amazed 320GB is already too tiny for me to bother with :D
<hamitron> and sound cards
<hamitron> main hurdle is convincing others in my life, I should have more
<hamitron> ;D
<daftykins> XD
<hamitron> 2 x 512MB PC3200 Corsair value select is nice too
<hamitron> when you've finished sorting and need rid, feel free to poke me
<hamitron> :)
<daftykins> ^_^
<shauno> hamitron: I wish I knew someone like you locally :)  I'm way too lazy to recycle
<daftykins> a friend still has my old nforce2 + Athlon XP PC up in England
<hamitron> haha
<daftykins> hamitron: you're not near Brighton are you? :)
<hamitron> no, I could maybe get someone to collect for me though
<hamitron> :D
<shauno> laptop ram any use to you?
<hamitron> tbh, I don't hoard laptops so much
<hamitron> gotta draw a line somewhere
<hamitron> and that is i586 until recently
<hamitron> desktop pc
<hamitron> :)
<daftykins> that list actually is missing my little 400MHz PIII Dell laptop beauty
<daftykins> i don't think anyone would take that off me
 * hamitron is using a K6-2 500MHz right now
<daftykins> D:
<hamitron> I refuse to throw away working hardware
<shauno> I've got 4GB I pulled from this one knocking around somewhere.  and 2GB I pulled from a '07.  they're not worth their weight in postage anymore :(
<hamitron> 4GB?
<hamitron> 2GB?
 * hamitron faints
<hamitron> I think the worst thing about not throwing old hardware out
<hamitron> is you still buy new hardware
<hamitron> so end up with loads
<shauno> I never get to loads :)  I try not to own more than I can fit in checked luggage
<hamitron> I got 26 comps now :/
<hamitron> trying to cut it down to 20
<daftykins> D:
<daftykins> as it was i got rid of 2 or 3 other Pentium II's a bit ago :)
<daftykins> the original 120MHz pentium 1 is still upstairs, my dad refuses to ditch that since he still remembers it costing Â£1600 new
<hamitron> I think my next clear out, is gonna be CRT monitors
<hamitron> daftykins, same
<daftykins> monitor died ages ago, CD drive died
<hamitron> my first PC
<hamitron> :)
<daftykins> rest is still original i think
<daftykins> yeah CRTs are definitely at death's door
<daftykins> i've only got the one remaining upstairs
<daftykins> a 17" Hitachi i think
<hamitron> I'm using CRT now
<daftykins> i was gonna pop it on and see what games look like without LCD response time fail one more time
<daftykins> but i've yet to get around to it ;)
<shauno> I've still got one :(  I hate it, but I haven't found a flatscreen that'll sync slow enough for my amiga
<hamitron> there is something that feels good about using a linux terminal on an old dusty CRT
<hamitron> but my reason for not dumping them mostly, is just been cheap
<hamitron> ;)
<daftykins> hehe
<daftykins> i've even a 19" DVI+VGA samsung LCD upstairs that i don't use
<daftykins> sad really
<daftykins> i remember moving to that from a 21" CRT
<daftykins> was kind of a move backwards at the time
<daftykins> super high res -> 1280x1024
<hamitron> yeh
<hamitron> that is reason I stayed with CRT for ages
<hamitron> then when mine blew, plenty of people had given me old CRT
<hamitron> and I just feel I have to use them till they die
<daftykins> :)
<hamitron> I do have 1 LCD
<hamitron> and tbh, it gives me no extra desk space
<daftykins> is it that old? :)
<hamitron> haha
<hamitron> well
<hamitron> this room is a loft conversion
<hamitron> so LCD just has space behind it
<hamitron> the LCD screen can be 1-2" further back
<hamitron> but once you take into account the stand
<hamitron> no extra room
<daftykins> ah-har
<daftykins> https://imgur.com/r/funny/sqIKW
<daftykins> ooh that does amuse
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> anyways, I better get some work prep done for tomorrow
<hamitron> :/
<daftykins> what's that?
<daftykins> i've a bike to pick up from the shop and a clients desktop PC to upgrade :D
<daftykins> core 2 quad -> ivybridge i7 \o/
<ali1234> psychonauts is finally up on software centre
<ali1234> what's the minimum maximum opengl texture size on "modern" cards? 4096x4096?
#ubuntu-uk 2012-06-13
<AlanBell> ali1234: some atom boards are 2048 if you consider that modern
<MooDoo> hello all
<diplo> Morning all
<AlanBell> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-18419231 linus on the beeb
<diplo> Good read AlanBell
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<diplo> morning brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning diplo
<czajkowski> morning
<directhex> BADGER
<brobostigon> hedgehog
<DJones> 40 Tonne truck....Squelch
<bigcalm> Goooooooooooood morning you lovely techies :)
<dwatkins> good morning one and all
<bigcalm> Ah, life
<dwatkins> Don't talk to me about life </Marvin>
<bigcalm> :)
<czajkowski> https://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+question/200246  anyone want to help a new user out
<JamesTait> Good morning all! :)
<popey> czajkowski: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WifiDocs/Driver/bcm43xx
<s-fox> Hello.
<bigcalm> Good morning - this time with coffee
<Ross____> what do I need to know to feel comfortable in a linux sys admin job?
<Ross____> I so badly want one
<Ross____> I learnt a scripting language and bash, I play around with distributions
<mungojerry> Ross____, learn the RHCE course
<mungojerry> go throug the syllabus and buy the RHCE book
<Ross____> ahhhh cheers!
<Ross____> :D
<Ross____> Sounds like fun
<mungojerry> and learn to follow instructions exactly, and always check and double check before making changes, and have a backout plan for when trhings go wrong
<mungojerry> and do "fun projects" at home, and learn to enjoy mundane stuff, and always document stuff
<Ross____> always docment stuff? Hmmm sound advice :)
<MartijnVdS> docuwhat?
<Ross____> document
<Ross____> I think in six months when I probably will know even more than I do now, I am just going to apply for entery linux sys admin jobs anyway
<mungojerry> i still wouldn't (and didn't in the past) hire a sysadmin who knows loads about linux , but lacks the personal qualities to do good work and not break stuff
<mungojerry> and don't use customised anything unless absolutely necessary i.e. stock hardware and stock kernel
<mungojerry> i get annoyed when i see people patching mysql and kernel for frivolous reasons, and then becoming a mysql maintainer just for themselves, having to patch every release
<Ross____> The Linux Documentation Project is fantastic
<mungojerry> also, there's a debian administrator's manual which has just been released
<mungojerry> on a pay as you like download (inckluding free)
<Ross____> There is one thing i am avoiding
<Ross____> and that's using vim or emacs
<Ross____> I mean, there isn't much time :(
<DJones> Just been asked to recommend an app for editing word and excel on an iPad.... Why ask me, I have an Android tablet?
<mgdm> Ross____: the advantage of vim is that it's installed *everywhere*
<mungojerry> and it's easy to learn the basics
<mgdm> Ross____: so if you can do basic text editing in that, you'll be ok on any random system, which might not have nano or whatever
<mungojerry> just buy the vim mug
<Ross____> hmmmm well I may reconsider
<diplo> Defo, vi basics are quite simple.. just google vi cheat sheet
<diplo> All you need for day to day
<dwatkins> I made a point of learning vi and emacs at least to the extent of being able to write a small file, in case I needed to do that in order to install another text editor. I ended up sticking with vi and I still use it all the time now, 20 years later.
<diplo> I *had* to learn vi, all that was installed on our AIX box at work, and we weren't allowed to install anything else
<dwatkins> yeahm, I quickly discovered that vi is ubiquitous.
<diplo> I'm still no master by any means, but use it everyday
<dwatkins> there are some amazing things you can do with vi, but my brain can't handle half of them ;)
<Ross____> I heard it is a good python editor
<dwatkins> syntax hilighting in vi is really handy
<Ross____> I still use gedit with an embedded terminal
<shauno> in the installer, when I get this purple screen with the logotype and five dots; is there any way to dismiss this screen?
<dwatkins> does gedit do this as well, Ross____? http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_hBuHSXuyA14/Sk3_RwjCtoI/AAAAAAAAAF0/Kp8roNcDhFk/s400/Picture+1.png
<Ross____> syntax highlighting?
<Ross____> yes
<Ross____> depending what theme you set, I guess
<diplo> And from the suggestion of RHCE, that's quite hard core to set your goals to
<diplo> LPIC is probably a better bet, or Linux+ which gives you the LPIC course certs afaik
<KrimZon_2> in 10.04, how do I change the login screen theme?
<popey> LolPIC
<KrimZon_2> I want to make it so you need to type a username rather than just select one
<mgdm> meh, RHCE isn't bad, you can go via the RHCT course first if you want
<mgdm> RHCE builds on that
<mgdm> I've never come across anywhere that considered the LPI to hold any weight, but RHCE does
<mgdm> (NB: this is my own experience)
<diplo> yeah, also a lot dearer.. not putting people off whole heartedly(sp?)
<diplo> I want to do it, but a few things have stopped me
<Ross____> you don't have to do this to get a linux job do you?
<mungojerry> or just follow the RHCE syllabus which is printed online, and learn from the textbook
<Ross____> some of these seem expensive
<Ross____> for the wages I am on
<mungojerry> i self learned, and added the certs afterwards to prove it
<diplo> Ross____: I've worked on Unix/Linux on and off for ten years and haven't taken any course
<diplo> So no, it's not needed
<diplo> I'm intending to do what mungojerry says once I have some free cash
<bigcalm> Just made myself the most perfect pot noodle ever
<bigcalm> So happy
<popey> 10:40 pot noodle?
<Laney> 10:40 â pot noodle break
<popey> if I ever have pot noodle I under-cook it, like the pasta a bit crispy
 * Laney cleans bigcalm's windows
<Ross____> So how should I document new things I discover?
<Ross____> what's the best way to do it ?
<KrimZon_2> ahh, apparently it's plymouth
<bigcalm> popey: I rarely eat breakfast, this was an energy requirement
<popey> ah
<popey> i made two poached eggs on toast for brekkie
<popey> yummy
<Ross____> slamming it into a document sounds boring to me
<bigcalm> Ross____: doing actions over and over again every day will embed themselves into your memory
<mgdm> I hadn't had a pot noodle in many years until last week
<mgdm> I had a craving for one of the curry ones
<diplo> bigcalm: Pot Noodles are the work of some very dodgey people! Don't do that to yourself :(
<bigcalm> Ross____: without looking it up, how do you extract a bz2 tarball?
<dogmatic69> bigcalm: server administration is an open book test :P
<diplo> Ross____: I'm learning 'simple' at the moment, a in house programming language.. I use google docs to write down stuff to point me in the right directions but not the whole answer
<bigcalm> Time's up: tar zjvf foo.tar.bz2
<bigcalm> dogmatic69: fair enough, but one should still know day to day commands without having to look in a man page :)
<dogmatic69> I have to look up tar.gz decompression *EVERY TIME*
<dogmatic69> :/
<dogmatic69> as far as my brain is concerned its something like tar -djfsklgasjdflaksd file.tar.gz
<popey> bigcalm: zj?
<bigcalm> popey: no, my mistake :D
<popey> also
<popey> no need âº
<bigcalm> hehe
<popey> tar autodetects these days
<bigcalm> It does? :(
<popey> it does âº
<popey> so you dont need the j or or the z
<bigcalm> I have to force myself to replace x with c when I'm creating a tarball. Early morning confusion made me replace x with j
<bigcalm> Pot noodle be gone :(
<bigcalm> Sounds like I've just banished it
<diplo> lol popey I didn't know that either, learn something new every day as the old adage goes
<popey> AlanBell: scaling that image down by 4 massively detracts from your point
<AlanBell> I didn't think it did, but I will put the full size version up at some point then
<bigcalm> The pointer looks odd as well
<dwatkins> hooray, I shall be building a Lego Pi case this evening
<bigcalm> Humm, shall I sneak in a little more of Limbo?
<AlanBell> bigcalm: yeah, it got scaled by accident, I didn't realise it was there until after. My point was about the launcher and panel so I didn't think it mattered
<popey> well, it's inaccurate. "this is what it looks like". "no, it doesn't", "you missed my point", "you lied" âº
<AlanBell> gah
 * AlanBell will do a better image
 * bigcalm hugs AlanBell
<diplo> :)
<AlanBell> and the launcher and panel will be the same proportion to the desktop as in the mockup
<AlanBell> http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/screenshots/unityretinafull.png happy now?
<bigcalm> That's big
<mungojerry> as for documentation, i use tomboy synced across machines for quick notes, and then add them to a wiki (twiki or docuwiki) for others on friday afternoons
<mungojerry> woops, ross____ has gone
<directhex> AlanBell, that's missing the point of retina display isn't it? idea is to scale so it "feels like" 1920x1200, but with better detail
<mungojerry> i use psr on windows, which is one of the best apps i know, and wish it was on linux
<AlanBell> directhex: yes, my entire point was that Ubuntu won't look particularly useable on such displays unless some scaling is done
 * AlanBell is surprised at the number of ways such a point can be missed!
<bigcalm> :)
<directhex> new father. mental scrollback limit is ~10 lines
<bigcalm> directhex: getting any sleep at night?
<AlanBell> you are forgiven, and context was spread across mailing lists and G+
<popey> well i saw it first on G+
<popey> and it wasn't explained well at all there
<directhex> bigcalm, a few hours
<directhex> non-sequentially
<diplo> heh, children are great
<diplo> Don't worry, it doesn't get better as they get older
<bigcalm> Yeah, I'll keep my sanity and get a cat/dog in a few years
<diplo> :)
<diplo> Not sure about that, my sister just got a 9 week old puppy
<diplo> Been getting her up at 04:30 each morning for a wee
<diplo> Amongst nibbling her toes to make sure she is awake
<mungojerry> put newspaper down?
<diplo> I think she prefers to be woke up as at least the dog knows it needs to pee outside
<bigcalm> Hayley can look after the puppy. I'll cuttle the kitten
<diplo> heh, I'd say kittens are worse than pups
<bigcalm> Cuttle?
<diplo> Rip the place to shreds whilst they are learning
 * mungojerry is still in desktop limbo after quitting unity again
<mungojerry> KDE looks stable now but i think i've moved on
<popey> you change desktop more often than I mow my lawn
<directhex> how opften do you mow your lawn?
<diplo> mungojerry: I was using Cinnamon but that was crashing to much
<diplo> Gone back to Gnome Fallback
<diplo> Stable works all the time
<mungojerry> i've been on gnome 2 since about 2003
<bigcalm> I've spent the morning writing documentation and feel that I've wasted my morning
<czajkowski> pah
<bigcalm> czajkowski: I write code, not docs!
<mungojerry> bigcalm, whoever succeeds you will thank you in your absnce
<bigcalm> :O
<mungojerry> so put your name on it :D
<czajkowski> bigcalm: you should always do both.
<mungojerry> i would definitely be using gnome3 right now if it wasn't a collection of the most bizarre decisions ever made
<mungojerry> diplo, i'm on fallback atm
<mungojerry> has a few quirks though
 * AlanBell is on unity and lxde on the raspberry pi
<gord> developers are always the worst documentation writers
<mungojerry> checkgmail and pidgin don't work in the notification area, and some weird window behaviour
<bigcalm> Actually, I need to refactor the documentation for this API I wrote. Is there a suggested format for API documentation?
<AlanBell> would like to run unity on the pi
<gord> bigcalm, doxygen style works well, as long as doxygen supports your language
<gord> AlanBell, you are on unity and lxde?
<bigcalm> gord: I don't need an automated one. Just need to re-write the document I've already written in a more consistent style
<AlanBell> gord: unity on my laptop and lxde on the pi
<mungojerry> is it true about the helicopters looking for green lawns and hosepipes?
<gord> AlanBell, unity2d no worky?
<AlanBell> gord: not tried building it yet, I was waiting for popey to do it
<mungojerry> how is the raspi performance wise?
<mungojerry> running lxde
<mungojerry> similar to an eee pc 701?
<gord> oh right yeah, because the pi is the old arm architecture
<popey> mungojerry: its the same as an iphone 3
<dogmatic69> Just tried to install php5-gd and got this warning:
<dogmatic69> WARNING: The following packages cannot be authenticated!
<dogmatic69>   libxpm4 libgd2-xpm libt1-5
<mungojerry> popey, i've never run ubuntu on an iphone though.
<mungojerry> eeepc felt quite sluggish
<dogmatic69> first time I have seen that, is it ok?
<mungojerry> the keyboard was quite laggy sometimes
<popey> my kids both run 12.04 + unity 2d on an Eee 900
<popey> 900Mhz Celeron, 2GB RAM
<mungojerry> hmm, same spec
<popey> dogmatic69: getting those from a ppa?
<dogmatic69> no
<dogmatic69> just apt-get install
<popey> no, the 701 is underclocked to 600MHa
<popey> *MHz
<dogmatic69> no ppa's
<popey> 660 or so
<mungojerry> although every time i updated my eeepc the cpu freq governor needed setting up differently
<dogmatic69> http://mirror.rackspace.com/ubuntu/ precise/main libgd2-xpm
<mungojerry> the eeepc was the last time i allowed myself to be early adopter man
<mungojerry> i have no use for raspi at the mo that my slug doesn't do, but later on i'd like a raspi on my telly
<mungojerry> but want a faster version
<mungojerry> since xbmc doesn't even run properly on my powerpc mac mini
<popey> xbmc works okay on my pi
<popey> played with it last night with a boxee remote
<AlanBell> mungojerry: it performs fine, the CPU is slow, the GPU is fast, I am using it to do ssh stuff in terminals so nothing taxing
<mungojerry> i couldn't even get past the first screen on the powerpc. must be the decent gpu
<gord> will wait until they upgrade the cpu before replacing my revos, can't be doing with building stuff myself
<diplo> I might order my Rasp this week actually
<diplo> everyone talking about them
<diplo> :)
<popey> damn you bigcalm, I'm off to the co-op to get a pot noodle!
<popey> although i may be tempted by other things in there..
<bigcalm> Bwuhaha :D
<diplo> Nooooo! Pot Noodles are evil
<bigcalm> And I'm off to subway to get a Chicken Pizziola
<diplo> Then again I'm off for a Boatmans breakfast, so I am not one to say about eating healthily
<czajkowski> pot noodles reminds me of college and my mates living away from home used to live on them
<diplo> Horrible things!
<mungojerry> i appear to have no way of seeing my contacts list in pidgin
<mungojerry> just the auto opened windows
<popey> http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/publications/about-us/consultations/equal-civil-marriage/
<popey> offtopic but meh, so is pot noodle âº
<popey> (no need for discussion, just making sure people see it)
<KrimZon_2> does anyone know how to change the login menu to require a username to be typed in rather than just selected?
<KrimZon_2> aha: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1609008
 * czajkowski hugs popey 
 * popey has chicken soup
<MartijnVdS> poor chicken
<AlanBell> I hardly ever feed my chickens on soup
<popey> that was yum
<czajkowski> oh exciting , I'll be going to my old college next year and giving a talk on how to translate packages/applications into other lanauges using Launchpad, and hopefully going to be giving a talk to some secondary school students :)
<KrimZon_2> yum install soup
<diplo> Couldn't eat another thing!
 * bigcalm nods to mrmist
<diplo> Beat you to it popey :D
<popey> heh
<popey> didnt realise that was you!
<diplo> o/
<diplo> Yeah that ugly git, really need some new photos taken of me for my profiles
<diplo> Only thing I hate about posting to busy comments is the notifications
<diplo> :)
<AlanBell> popey: as luck would have it OMG have nicely explained my point for me
<popey> \o/
<gord> for what its worth, the dash resizes to try and fit nicely on large displays and the launcher can be configured to be larger. panel can't but that's a few lines of code to put in a configure option
<gord> i'm more worried about trying to grab window borders at that dpi
 * czajkowski peers at gord leave my window border on it's lonesome
<bigcalm> It's currently a pixel hunt in xubuntu
<gord> yeah, in compiz we put a fake window around your window that lets you have a few extra pixels that you can resize your window by. its an X issue really
<AlanBell> it is a people who write themes with no borders issue :)
<AlanBell> bring on wayland
<AlanBell> and *real* shadows
<ali1234> and absolutely no ability to change the window manager at all
<ali1234> seriously though, i do find it funny that people would pay a $1000 premium to get a screen where you can't read anything because the DPI is ridiculously high
<AlanBell> yeah, the fact that windows draw their own decoration is a bit odd
<AlanBell> I would pay for that screen
<AlanBell> and run unmodified 12.04 on it tbh
<ali1234> AlanBell: they don't just draw their own decoration. the whole window manager is built into the server
<ali1234> imagine having to patch xorg if you want a tiling WM. that's wayland
<ali1234> i would buy a 2880x1800 screen if it was 40"
<AlanBell> I don't want a tiling WM, I want real shadows.
<ali1234> anything less than that and it is stupid
<ali1234> your screenshot is unreadable on a 24" monitor
<ali1234> but really though, you could always use one of the actually finished desktops
<gord> uh, so. you increase text scaling to conform to your dpi
<gord> its not like you stick with a tiny 10pixel font
<ali1234> yeah
<ali1234> believe it or not, there are actually desktop environments that do that for you automatically
<ali1234> for example gnome, kde
<AlanBell> shoudl get dpi from the EDID information I think
<gord> gnome never did, it was terrible at getting your dpi. didn't have one machine that it ever managed to set automatically
<ali1234> yeah, that's just nonsense
<gord> now they removed the dpi option and you are just left with scaling
<AlanBell> EDID does often lie
<ali1234> not EDID. it;s the drivers
<gord> i've had edid lie to me a lot, with tv's especially
<ali1234> what's the actual DPI of it? 204?
<davmor2> ali1234: I've have EDID report a size of x=1024x768 y=1024x768  trust me EDID lies it depends which manufacture has done it
<directhex> EDID lies, but so do drivers
<ali1234> uh-hu
<AlanBell> 220 apparently, I thought it was 204 but I got it worng
<AlanBell> wrong
<directhex> i've had some drivers able to get correct EDID, and other drivers get wrong EDID, from the same device, on the same hardware, via the same cable
<ali1234> you do know that EDID reports horizontal and vertical refresh rates right? it's up to the video card to decide the actual modes
<AlanBell> also reports physical screen size
<AlanBell> badly
<AlanBell> lots of TVs claim to be a 7 inch panel
<ali1234> TVs are very bad
<directhex> TVs are super bad
<ali1234> but we're not talking about TVs, we're talking about a $2000 laptop
<directhex> partly because of 1366x768, which is not a valid mode, so the TV has to lie by definition
<ali1234> what is not valid about it?
<directhex> 1366 is not divisible by 8, so most cards can't output it. hence most 1366x768 tvs either scale by 6 pixels, or have a 3 pixel letterbox either side, and only accept 1360x768 as a mode
<ali1234> i see
<bigcalm> davmor2: ping
<directhex> of course, in 2012, all tvs should just do 1080p
<davmor2> bigcalm: you pinged
<ali1234> that explains why so many people have problems using HDTVs in linux tbh
<popey> 1080p... with overscan
<directhex> overscan /o\
<bigcalm> davmor2: a) what time are we having pie, b) want a lift on my way though Wolves?
<bigcalm> Bloody overscan
<directhex> who thought overscan was useful on digital displays?
<bigcalm> through
<directhex> any hdmi device requesting it should be returned a flashing HD "feck off" image
<davmor2> bigcalm: a) when everybody gets there, b) no ta I might need to dash off, but thanks for the offer
<bigcalm> davmor2: fair enough. I'll aim for 7.30 as usual then
<bigcalm> Ooo, looks like rain \o/
<diplo> Guys thoughts on this please..
<davmor2> bigcalm: yeap then we tend to hang around till every who says they are coming gets there then order as it is 2 for 1 on Wednesdays unless they have changed it  so we all pair up and split the pie bill
<bigcalm> Oooo
<diplo> We have customers who want back ups to usb devices
<bigcalm> diplo: if they are mains powered, sounds fair enough
<diplo> So we have written bash scripts that want to mount as usb1 dir or usb2
<davmor2> diplo: doddle standard ups unit and a usb plug
<diplo> I've used uuid to identify devices
<diplo> But we don't want to automount so fstab is set to noauto
<ali1234> what does mains power and UPS have to do with this?
<diplo> So as ali1234 pointed out to me yesterday mount -a won't work
<bigcalm> I'm confused
<diplo> How would you work out what device was plugged in to mount
<ali1234> if won't work *if* you put noauto in fstab
<ali1234> so don't put noauto in fstab...
<bigcalm> Oh, backups, not back UPS
<ali1234> anyway just use udisks
 * bigcalm goes back to sleep
<directhex> autofs!
<diplo> OK, udisks, I will google now
<diplo> I'm sure I had a quick look at autofs
<diplo> Will relook at that aswell
<diplo> Want a better solution, as ours sucks.. I only did part of it.. but keeps failing as logic sucks
<ali1234> https://github.com/ali1234/autoflash
<diplo> Past my level of python, but taking a look now thanks ali1234
<ali1234> "we want to hand out usb flash drives with some files on at a conference. here's a box of 1000 blank usb flash drives and the files are in your email"
<diplo> ah right so the format part was for a particular reason not recommended reason. So could remove that..
<diplo> I will have a play I think
<diplo> No special dependencies with the imports ?
<Twinkletoes> The ubuntu nagios packages seem to be a fair way behind what nagios offer on their website.  Precise repos have 3.2.3, and the nagios website has 3.4.1 which has quite a lot of fixes over 3.2.3.  Would you advise going with the package from teh nagios website?
<diplo> Source Twinkletoes ?
<diplo> When i used to idle in the nagios channel and take notice, their package at the time had lot's of issues, and the guys in there recommended using repo packages
<diplo> I still use 3.2.3
<Twinkletoes> diplo: Ah
<diplo> But from memory that was 3.3.* something
<diplo> Don't think it was 3.4.*
<Twinkletoes> Quite a lot of fixes and enhancements: http://nagios.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/nagios/nagioscore/trunk/Changelog?view=markup
<Twinkletoes> I'm running on 10.04 at the moment, so I'm stuck with 3.2.0-4ubuntu2.2 from the repos, unless I can persuade it to use the package from 12.04?
<diplo> there is a ppa, but only the nagios-agent has been updated for Precise
<Twinkletoes> diplo: ppa?
<diplo> For me, unless you have a specific issue with the pacakage I wouldn't upgrade
<diplo> https://launchpad.net/~nagiosinc/+archive/ppa?field.series_filter=precise
<diplo> Natty was 3.2.3 still on it's build
<bigcalm> Peeps in here, would you recomend: gpa or seahorse?
<popey> for what?
<Twinkletoes> diplo: Thanks :)
<bigcalm> Getting started in gpg
<diplo> I've been using 3.2.3 for 2 years with no particular issues Twinkletoes
<popey> seahorse, given we ship it
<bigcalm> I want to sign my emails and only just reading https://help.ubuntu.com/community/GnuPrivacyGuardHowto
<popey> ahh
<popey> i use thunderbird and some plugin
<diplo> And it seems they haven't made lot's of additions, just approvements
<bigcalm> I have thunderbird and the gpg plugin. But I need to set up keys :)
<popey> ah yeah, use seahorse
<bigcalm> Ta
<Laney> keep a safe and secure copy of the revocation certificate!
<Azelphur> EVGA GTX 680 Classified comes with water blocks at stock :o
 * Azelphur wants
<bigcalm> Laney: I'll print it out ;)
<Laney> imagine typing one of those things in :(
<bigcalm> We used to type in programs from MicroUser et al
<davmor2> bigcalm: +1 for using seahorse
 * bigcalm goes for a shower while the keys are generated :S
<directhex> Azelphur, there have been gpus with manufacturer waterblocks for years
<Azelphur> true, but this is a GTX 680 and it has quad screen support \o/
<popey> what is a waterblock?
<directhex> popey, for water cooling
<directhex> popey, it's a specially shaped copper (usually) block which clamps to the graphics card instead of heatsink/fan, and the internal water channels are optimized for coolant flow
<popey> cunning
<AlanBell> silver would be better ;)
<Azelphur> I have a nickel one :o
<directhex> e.g. http://photos.dangerden.com/GPU-Blocks/GTX680/i-cVJ59FH/0/L/IMGP1559-L.jpg
<directhex> AlanBell, the main thing is to pick a metal which suffers from minimal corrosion, and maximum heat transfer. and to never mix metals in the same system
<directhex> AlanBell, e.g. stray copper and aluminium in the same water system will fur up overnight
<popey> golly
<Azelphur> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/Photos/2012/June/IMG_20120613_161238.jpg here's my CPU water block, just took this photo :D
<directhex> http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=91402&stc=1&d=1230125543 is a cpu block where someone mixed alu and copper
<Azelphur> clearly need to get that finger print off it :P
<Azelphur> directhex: my loop is growing that crap too :(
<directhex> Azelphur, what are all the devices in your loop made from? sounds like you've got a mix
<Azelphur> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/Photos/2012/June/IMG_20120606_204531.jpg here's mine xD
<Azelphur> directhex: EK Supreme HF Nickel, and a Black Ice GTX 480 but not sure what it's made of
<directhex> the cpu block is plated copper
<Azelphur> ah
<directhex> the rad is copper
<Azelphur> everything is copper then?
<directhex> nickel shouldn't be reactive
<Azelphur> yet still growing life forms :(
<directhex> what water are you using?
<Azelphur> distilled water with biocide
<directhex> reservoir?
<Azelphur> XSPCÂ DDC Bay - Acrylic Dual 5.25Â Reservoir
<directhex> hm
<directhex> sounds like you're doing all the right things, tbh
<Azelphur> yay
<Azelphur> I figured perhaps that stuff was algea so I poured a bunch more biocide into the loop recently
<Azelphur> is there anything that might clear it from the system?
<directhex> not sure. i never had the guts to actually deploy a water system. just researched it a lot
<directhex> ended up with low noise air instead
<Azelphur> hehe, it's been a fun adventure
<Azelphur> will be cool once it's done, as I should never really have to touch it after that
<popey> cool!
<davmor2> Azelphur: look like limes scale you should be able to treat it with scale remover the only way I know to keep it removed currently is with some strong magnets attached to the pipework but I guess that isn't the answer you are looking for
<Azelphur> sure, I can do a strong magnet somewhere in the loop
<Azelphur> how does that work, collect it so you can remove it?
<AlanBell> heh, so when it blocks you know where the blockage is
<directhex> strong magnets in a pc? foolproof!
<davmor2> Azelphur: Nope it is done on household pipe work and just means the limescale doesn't bond to itself
<davmor2> directhex: that was kinda my point :)
<Azelphur> oh cool
<Azelphur> would that remove the existing limescale too?
<Azelphur> I could put a huge magnet on the radiator, that wouldn't be an issue at all
<Azelphur> or perhaps on the res, although that might be a bit close to the HDDs for my liking :P
<popey> \o/ ssd
<Azelphur> got one of them too, I have 5 HDDs total
<davmor2> Azelphur: it will but it takes a while, It's fun watching ours reduce the limescale on our kettle, the kettle is slowly getting silver-erererer
<Azelphur> nice
<Azelphur> davmor2 https://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/Photos/2012/June/IMG_20120606_225647.jpg is my setup
<Azelphur> so I could just place a magnet on the top of the radiator
<oimon> :( installing lubuntu-desktop doesn't give me the same experience as installing just lubuntu. any suggestions? very glitchy desktop session otherwise
<Azelphur> half-done setup anyway
<davmor2> Azelphur: what are you doing with that box that it requires that?
<Azelphur> nothing really, I'd probably get along just fine with high performance air cooling
<Azelphur> but, it looks cool and is fun
<Azelphur> davmor2 plus I can overclock to ridiculous levels, having a faster computer is always useful
 * AlanBell decideds to strap some water cooling to a raspberry pi
<AlanBell> or just dunk it in a bucket
<popey> booted up my beaglebone last night
<popey> shame it doesnt have hdmi
 * Azelphur has to wander for dinner anyway :p
<Azelphur> AlanBell: look up submersive oil cooling, I was so very tempted.
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: cooking oil? :P
<ali1234> i just tested DPI handling in kde, gnome 3, gnome 3 fallback, and MATE
<ali1234> and of course MATE is the only one that works properly
<ali1234> KDE tries but just ends up looking like a mess due to allowing developers to switch between pixel and point sizes at will, so you get dialogs where half the writing is tiny and half is huge
<oimon> did you take screenshots ali1234
<ali1234> anything based on gtk3 completely overrides display DPI and forces it to be 95
<ali1234> oimon: yes, i did
<oimon> gonna write a blog post?
<ali1234> maybe
<oimon> i'm tempted to trash my work PC and use lubuntu full time
<oimon> shame i can't seem to get it to co-exist on my ubuntu setup
<ali1234> basically the conclusion i have drawn is that if you want a properly working desktop, you should use MATE
<ali1234> specifically the problem with all the others is they've been taken over by UI designers who think anything they don't understand is superfluous
<czajkowski> Bug Linking Part 2 -  http://blog.launchpad.net/general/bug-linking-part-2
<oimon> did you try lxde?
<ali1234> no
<czajkowski> please do be reading that :)
<ali1234> i didn't try xfce either
<oimon> how do you change DPI?
<MartijnVdS> buying a new screen
<MartijnVdS> increasing resolution on current screen dimensions?
<ali1234> in xorg.conf you put option "useediddpi" "false"
<ali1234> option "dpi" "204 x 204"
<oimon> lxde is flippin fast
<oimon> linus torvalds won the millenium tech prize
<oimon> joint winner meh
<bigcalm> Would it not have been meh if he won it all to himself?
<oimon> dunno
<oimon> linux is about sharing i guess
<bigcalm> That should be gpg sorted out now then
<AlanBell> with powerline networking why does the electricity meter block the signal and prevent it leaking to next door?
<bigcalm> It doesn't
<AlanBell> I mean on a technical basis, apparently it does do this, I can't see how
<bigcalm> But next door will be on a different phase
<bigcalm> General rule of thumb is every 3rd house in the street will be on the same phase
<bigcalm> What will mess it up are UPS and surge protectors (I think)
<popey> AlanBell: it doesnt
<popey> bigcalm: have you uploaded your key?
<bigcalm> popey: Good point, maybe not :)
<AlanBell> http://www.faculty-x.net/homeplug-blog/?p=4 bad FAQ then
 * bigcalm does so
<popey> AlanBell: they all come with encryption these days
<bigcalm> popey: done
<bigcalm> Feel free to sign my public key ;)
<popey> nope
<bigcalm> Not working?
<popey> no, I'm not signing some random key
<popey> how do I know it's yours?
<bigcalm> Good lad
<ali1234> oimon: i posted screenshot: https://plus.google.com/u/0/117474986382867317779/posts
<ali1234> +s
<directhex> ali1234, tried today's bastion build? should have joypads
<ali1234> i dunno, is it on software centre?
<ali1234> if it isn't, then i haven't
<bigcalm> popey: have you been able to decrypt the email yet?
<popey> yeah, i did ages ago
<bigcalm> Oh, good
<popey> just wanted to reply but couldn't cos your key wasnt public
<bigcalm> It is now
<bigcalm> How frequently does the ubuntu keyserver update?
<czajkowski> AlanBell: lot of folks use google docs to draw up wireframes
<czajkowski> or is it google draw
<czajkowski> hmm one of em
<bigcalm> In a weird way, I like getting stuck in Limbo. Not once yet looked at a walk through and slowly making progress :D
<bigcalm> Any other games like Limbo peeps can recommend?
<AlanBell> czajkowski: interesting, I have never used that, though I use the other bits of google docs
<AlanBell> doesn't seem particularly well adapted to GUI design
<czajkowski> saw some folks use it for mock up recently
<directhex> ali1234, doesn't look like it, although USC version numbers are different to upstream
<czajkowski> looked very poished
<czajkowski> *polished
<czajkowski> AlanBell: they culd create their images and save them for future so just reuse them
<AlanBell> ah, so not using the built in shapes
 * bigcalm pokes keyserver
<czajkowski> bigcalm: how long ago ?
<czajkowski> AlanBell: well yes in some cases, but in others, creaating the image you're going to reuse over and over to save you have to create it
<bigcalm> czajkowski: more than 15 mins ago
<bigcalm> czajkowski: One of my keys is up there
<popey> bigcalm: limbo is a very nice little game, i like it
<bigcalm> Oh, both are now :)
<czajkowski> bigcalm: patience so :) can take a while to updated
<AlanBell> czajkowski: yeah, I still like pencil but I can see the co-editing in google docs is quite handy
<czajkowski> AlanBell: not seen anyone co-edit, though the possibility is there
<AlanBell> co-editing in pencil would be even better
 * bigcalm scratches his head
<bigcalm> I only get my cuth.eu key in a search result on my name. But if I search by the key hex id, I can see my idophp.co.uk key
<bigcalm> Maybe it caches searches
<bigcalm> Just capitalised my names and it now shows both keys :)
<bigcalm> Hazar! Just got key into launchpad
<bigcalm> Bah, gmail on android doesn't do gpg
<bigcalm> Do iOS devices?
<popey> dunno, not tried
<davmor2> bigcalm: have a look at firegpg plugin for firfox and see if it is available on android and use FF to access your gmail and use the FF firegpg plugin
<davmor2> bigcalm: the other thing to look for is pgp rather than gpg
<czajkowski> http://niederfamily.blogspot.be/2012/06/silencing-of-maya.html  one of the most sadest blog posts I've read in a long time :(
<bigcalm> Indeed. I used pgp a _long_ time ago
<bigcalm> ACK!
<bigcalm> I haven't got my laptop ready for tomorrow
<davmor2> bigcalm: print off your key and bring you driving license tomorrow and I'll sign your key :)
<bigcalm> Really don't want to do it after midnight tonight
<bigcalm> davmor2: hehe, sure. I read that bit and thought about doing so :P
<davmor2> bigcalm: there is a nice gpg signing party script some where out there that gives you an nice a4 page of important info for you to hand out
<bigcalm> One of the best guitar intros ever: The Smiths - How Soon Is Now?
<davmor2> bigcalm: Guns 'n' Roses Paradise city, AC/DC Thunderstruck, Led Zeplin "Stairway to heaven", guns 'n' roses knockin' on heavens door, Jimi Hendrix Voodoo Child or All along the watch tower I could go on but don't have time :P
<directhex> ali1234, 2012-06-12 build works for me, joypadwise. with my 360 pad.
<ali1234> how do i report a bug when i have a crash dump and exact steps to reproduce?
<ali1234> when i try to use ubuntu-bug it just files a whoopsie report and does not ask me for any details
<ging> is there a flash update that has stopped bbc iplayer working on ubuntu?
<ali1234> no, it works fine here
<ging> it's now saying i need to install flash player
<ging> i was using it on sunday
<ging> why doesn't it work!!!!
<MartijnVdS> restart chrome
<MartijnVdS> or $browser
<ging> i have
<ging> firefox
<ging> i've installed the lastest package from the adobe website
<ging> but i don't understand why the ordinary one was not working
<czajkowski> ging: are you breaking things :)
<czajkowski> popey: I know you;ve mentioned not being able to see private bugs before but still knowing they are there.  you may want to me too this bug. https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/apport/+bug/764414
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 764414 in apport (Ubuntu) "private master bugs are confusing and lead to more duplicate filings" [Wishlist,Triaged]
<popey> czajkowski: I'm now on bugsquad so I can see private bugs now :D
<popey> I have me-too'ed it though âº
<czajkowski> coolio
<ali1234> why is psychonauts on software centre for free?
<popey> its not here
<popey> its 9.99 usd
<ali1234> for me it appears twice when i search
<ali1234> one for free and one for 9.99, and with different descriptions
<ali1234> and which ever one i click they are both listed as "free"
<popey> ahh
<popey> i havent clicked the button on the special page yet
<popey> so I only see the paid one
<ali1234> i clicked it last night and left it installing, but this morning it wasn't installed and software centre was gone
<ali1234> has anyone tried lone survivor yet?
<ali1234> can't get it to work at all, it's a flash projector - that means an ancient version of flash player wrapped into an exe file
<ali1234> it spits out a load of errors about menuproxy and then dies
<ali1234> btw, none of the other games appear twice in software centre. they only appear as the pay versions
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Ubuntu Accomplishments 0.2 Released - http://www.jonobacon.org/2012/06/13/ubuntu-accomplishments-0-2-released/
<popey> right
<popey> listen here
<popey> what can I do to see which bit of firefox is eating my cpu?
 * popey tickles chrisccoulson for an answer
<ali1234> which bit?
<ali1234> it's always the same bit: flash plugin
<ali1234> the rest of ff only likes to eat ram
<popey> heh
<popey> yeah, i am watching a video on youtube and its stuttering
<popey> on a 2.8GHz CPU
<ali1234> lol
<chrisccoulson> yeah, flashplugin is always the first thing i kill
<ali1234> well that's a bad start
<chrisccoulson> for memory use, about:memory comes in handy ;)
<popey> memory i am less bothered by
<popey> its that my cpu is being eaten alive
<popey> ~60% by firefox
<popey> be nice if it had a tab cpu monitor like chrome
<popey> may be time to switch back to chrome again
<ali1234> there's a fun bug in pulseaudio where buffer underruns make it max the CPU (probably polling for next buffer)
<ali1234> the extra CPU load more or less guarantees the next buffer will be late too
<ali1234> so once you've dropped a buffer it goes into a vicious cycle of stuttering
<MartijnVdS> until you pause
<chrisccoulson> popey, does the CPU drop if you pause the video in youtube?
<ali1234> that doesn't work in any application that generates an audio stream on the fly, such as any game
<popey> no chrisccoulson
<popey> i have lots of other tabs open too
<popey> i want to know which ones are eating it
<popey> about 40 tabs
<ali1234> close tabs until it stops
<chrisccoulson> popey, there's not really an easy way short of closing each one in turn to see if it goes away
<chrisccoulson> yeah ;)
<ali1234> however my guess is it will go down by about 2% for each tab
<chrisccoulson> heh
<MartijnVdS> who has >4 tabs?
<chrisccoulson> it's quite easy for a site to gobble CPU ;)
<MartijnVdS> disable javascript!
<ali1234> disable images too
<MartijnVdS> and plugins
<popey> use lynx?
<chrisccoulson> images aren't likely to use CPU
<ali1234> actually strip all html tags is the best solution
<popey> 48%
<ali1234> chrisccoulson: unless they're animated gifs
<popey> 44% system monitor
<chrisccoulson> well, there is that i guess
<MartijnVdS> get a better cpu ;)
<ali1234> yes
<popey>  9160 alan      20   0 3944m 2.3g  22m S   33 30.3   1516:58 firefox
<MartijnVdS> 2.3g of ram?!
<ali1234> what did i say before about 3ghz quad core being the minimum requirement for a real computer?
<ali1234> 2.3g is low for firefox
<MartijnVdS> 19341 martijn   20   0  913m 338m  43m S    0  4.3 124:08.80 chrome
<MartijnVdS> and that's the largest one
<popey> i now have 27 tabs open
<ali1234> chrome makes loads of processes
<chrisccoulson> 2.3g is definitely not low for firefox. that is abnormally large
<ali1234> you probably have another 7 like that using just as much memory
<MartijnVdS> chrisccoulson: not for firefox.
<popey> been running for a while
<chrisccoulson> i never see it above 600MB here and i keep > 30 tabs open
<chrisccoulson> MartijnVdS, that is highly abnormal
<chrisccoulson> if it's running like that, then you have a serious problem. i can assure you, it isn't normal ;)
<MartijnVdS> chrisccoulson: exactly
<ali1234> chrisccoulson: how much ram do you hav total?
<MartijnVdS> chrisccoulson: firefox eats 4GB usually
<MartijnVdS> chrisccoulson: so 2.3G is low
<chrisccoulson> ali1234, 8gb
<popey> not sure how to read about:memory
<chrisccoulson> MartijnVdS, sorry, but firefox does not eat 4gb usually. if it does for you, then there is something seriously wrong with something on your setup, or with a site you're visiting
<chrisccoulson> popey, you can copy/paste it somewhere ;)
<ali1234> firefox has that fun switch statement that makes it waste systemram - 0.5gb or whatever
<eztk> I agree, I'm running Firefox right now on a 2003 vintage laptop with 768mb ram on lubuntu
<MartijnVdS> chrisccoulson: Chrome stays around 1G, so I'll just use that
<chrisccoulson> ali1234, huh?
<popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1039698/
<ali1234> i kid you not. there's a switch statement that decides ow much ram it allocates on startup
<chrisccoulson> ali1234, no there isn't
<ali1234> if there isn't, it's been removed in the past year
<chrisccoulson> popey, google+ !!!!
<chrisccoulson> that doesn't surprise me at all
<chrisccoulson> in fact, the majority of it is google sites ;)
<MartijnVdS> So?
<MartijnVdS> Google sites don't eat as much ram in chrome
<MartijnVdS> âââââ443.46 MB (19.04%) ââ heap-unclassified
<MartijnVdS> what's that?
<MartijnVdS>   625.98 MB ââ heap-unallocated
<MartijnVdS> it could easily let go of that
<popey> the thing i like about chrome is i can close it, reopen it and it re-loads all the tabs I had open
<MartijnVdS> popey: it does?
<popey> firefox only remembers pinned tabs
<popey> it can
<popey> optionally
<ali1234> not here it doesn't
<dogmatic69> popey: any browser does that
<gord> firefox remembers all my tabs here
<MartijnVdS> gord: only if you kill -9 it
<ali1234> firefox remembers all my tabs here, even though i have disabled that option
<dogmatic69> google chrome, chromium, ff all do it
<popey> nope
<popey> not true
<gord> nope it does it constantly MartijnVdS
<popey> i have that pastebin open
 * popey closes firefox
<dogmatic69> popey: I use all three every day ;)
<ali1234> firefox *always* exits in a crash even if i do file->quit, which is why. every second time i start it, i get the "oops" display
<popey> dogmatic69: that doesnt make it work
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: I get that with spotify
<chrisccoulson> MartijnVdS, heap-unclassified is memory used by objects that don't have a dedicated reporter
<popey> joy, can't open firefox because it's still running, yet closed
<popey> right, finally reopened
<chrisccoulson> and no, it can't get rid of heap-unallocated, else it would have done already
<popey> and the pastebin is _not_ opened
<MartijnVdS> chrisccoulson: so, bug in firefox?
<chrisccoulson> no
<gord> could it not just be a setting somewhere popey?
<popey> could be, which one? âº
<gord> no idea, i haven't touched my settings in a long time and use the sync thing to keep all my machines the same
<popey> aha!
<chrisccoulson> MartijnVdS,  heap-unallocated is a result of heap fragmentation, which is quite normal
<popey> "What firefox starts: " was set to "show home page"
<popey> changed it to "show my windows and tabs from last time"
<popey> ta
<popey> thats why i never used to close it
<gord> firefox finally got the same new tab page thingy that chrome has recently. not sure i need to see 9 different reddit pages on my new tab thing
<popey> now lets see what flash video is like
<MartijnVdS> Chrome has a "Goats teleported" metric in its process manager
<MartijnVdS> Wut.
<popey> 12299 alan      20   0 1908m 832m  45m S   19 10.6   0:50.69 firefox
<popey> no stuttering \o/
<MartijnVdS> http://www.goat-trauma.org/
<dogmatic69> popey: http://i.imgur.com/MHIMk.png
<chrisccoulson> popey, i avoid memory issues by not keeping any google sites open btw ;)
<chrisccoulson> although that probably doesn't work for everyone
<popey> âº
<dogmatic69> the options are not default iirc
<chrisccoulson> popey, i sat down with slangasek at the last platform sprint because he was having a problem with frequent disk wakeups with firefox
<chrisccoulson> and it turned out to be google plus frequently using a specific web API which causes a disk write
<chrisccoulson> but running it in chrome didn't use the same API
<chrisccoulson> go figure ;)
<livingdaylite> Hi, does anyone know the name, I forget, of a little server machine that goes fits on back of monitor?
<popey> revo?
<livingdaylite> maybe, let me check
<livingdaylite> they had a couple versions of it.
<livingdaylite> hrmm, don't think so
<popey> what colour was it?
<popey> or any other factors that give it away âº
<diddledan> there was the zotac machine
<popey> the Acer Aspire Revo 3600 / 3660 / 3700 has a screen mount
<livingdaylite> it was a small box , black, or silver? fit on back of monitor, if memory serves. Ran ubuntu or linux
<popey> Viglen MPC-L?
<livingdaylite> YES!
<livingdaylite> thx!
<ali1234> yeah you're better of getting a raspberry i
<ali1234> unless you really need VGA that is
<dogmatic69> ali1234: rasberry i? is that the new version :P
<popey> yeah, i wouldn't get a viglen mpc-l
<popey> well, i have two of them in a drawer, unused for about a yeare
<livingdaylite> no? no good?
<popey> slow
<popey> whats the use case?
<livingdaylite> I'm looking for a desktop again :(
<dogmatic69> o.o
<dogmatic69> livingdaylite: that is not a desktop replacement
<livingdaylite> I got a new hd , third in a row, but I see that it is not the hd but the machine somehow breaking them... Installed ubuntu yesterday and quickly experiencing the same issues of freeze
<ali1234> i don't think it cen even run ubuntu any more
<popey> correct
<ali1234> you have to use lucid on it
<livingdaylite> dogmatic69: fair enough... I was hoping
<popey> revo is fine
<ali1234> also they are quite flaky due to overheating
<dogmatic69> livingdaylite: you could get a full pc (all be it crappy) for like 100 bucks
<dogmatic69> with GB's of ram, not MB's
<ali1234> hmm software centre disappeared again
<livingdaylite> I don't enjoy shopping for pc's especially when having been out of it for so long. Things change and move along
<livingdaylite> I did find this which looked promising. They come without os, so that's good. http://stores.ebay.co.uk/Altera-Computers-Ltd/_i.html?_fsub=3898032018
<popey> livingdaylite: my desktop pc is a zoostorm cheapy thing from ebuyer
<ali1234> http://ubuntuone.com/0sUDG3xdEMsmbTjFK4Mazq
<livingdaylite> does amd still make processors?
<ali1234> what do?
<ali1234> livingdaylite: seriously?
<ali1234> yes, they still make processors
<livingdaylite> ali1234: seriously, haven't heard much about amd's anymore.... I'm sort of up to speed with the new intel i3, i5, i7 processors (barely)
<livingdaylite> does this look good? http://stores.ebay.co.uk/Altera-Computers-Ltd/_i.html?_fsub=3898032018
<ali1234> which one?
<ali1234> none of them have enough RAM for the price
<ali1234> you want at least 8GB
<mrgt> join #codeigniter
<livingdaylite> that one comes with 4gb
<livingdaylite> ali1234: can you show me something better for the same money? [Â£200 - Â£300]
<ali1234> http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B006ZINQE8/ref=asc_df_B006ZINQE88302616?smid=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&tag=googlecouk06-21&linkCode=asn&creative=22206&creativeASIN=B006ZINQE8
<ali1234> also includes a hard drive, the other one doesn't
<livingdaylite> Ithe other did have a 250gb hd
<popey> http://www.ebuyer.com/362648-zoostorm-desktop-pc-7873-1058
<popey> 228 quid, 8gb ram, 750gb hdd, looks good
<livingdaylite> wow, that does...
<livingdaylite> looks like zoostorms are popular here
<popey> they're cheap
<livingdaylite> good value
<livingdaylite> yes
<popey> i am resting my feet on one now âº
<livingdaylite> hehe
<livingdaylite> loud?
<popey> nope
<livingdaylite> really!?
<popey> the one i have isnt
<popey> mine is an i7
<popey> has no case fan, just one on the cpu
<popey> other models may vary
<ali1234> if you want it to be not loud and also good you will have to spend lots of money
<livingdaylite> case same on yours? difference is only processor?
<ali1234> but it depends how you define "loud"
<popey> the cases all look similar
<popey> yeah, i have a server 6 inches from my ear
<popey> so i dont hear the desktop under my feet really
<popey> maybe 18 inches from my ear
<livingdaylite> ali1234: sure. beggers can't be choosers. I dream of getting a water cooling system one day... almost completely quiet
<ali1234> random windows question: is it possible to get rid of windows ribbon and get the old menus back, in arbitrary applications?
<livingdaylite> popey: got link to your machine?
<livingdaylite> just curious
<popey> Zoostorm Advanced Media PC, Core i7-2600 3.4GHz, 8GB RAM, 1TB HDD, DVDRW, Windows 7 Professional
<popey> http://www.ebuyer.com/product/271629
<ali1234>  8156 root      25   5  101m 7472 3788 R   99  0.0   7:19.56 https
<livingdaylite> thx
<popey> they dont do that specific model anymore
<ali1234> whaaaaat? ^
<popey> Â£491.40
<popey> ali1234: apt
<popey> ?
<ali1234> why is my computer running https using 100% cpu?
<popey> connecting to private ppa
<livingdaylite> what is intel equivalent of amd A6 processor? is it like the i3/i5/i7 series?
<popey> no idea, i have no knowledge of AMD models
<ali1234> there are no equivalents
<ali1234> in a sense, all AMD processors are equivalent to i7, because i3/i5 is just i7 with features disabled
<ali1234> however, all AMD processors are slower than i7s
<ali1234> and also about 4x cheaper
<ali1234> oh, and no hyperthreading either
<ali1234> though bulldozer sort of has it... basically you can't compare them at all
<livingdaylite> you like AMD's?
<ali1234> yes
<ali1234> pound for pound they have about the same performance as intel, but the motherboards are about half the price
<diddledan> hyperthreading can be a problem though if the scheduler doesn't account for the difference in speed of a real core and a hyperthreaded core
<livingdaylite> by equivalent I mean. Well, i thought they used to compete and run paralel ''equivalent'' processors...
<ali1234> yeah not any more
<ali1234> these days they use incompatible extensions
<ali1234> remember mmx?
<livingdaylite> i see
<livingdaylite> mmx, no
<diddledan> mmx circa 1995 :-o
<directhex> ali1234, there's no way to arbitrarily unribbon. there may be third party paid apps to mangle it, but YMMV
<livingdaylite>  AMD A6 3500 Triple Core 2.1GHz vs Intel Core i3-2120
<ali1234> directhex: i see. thanks
<livingdaylite> Â£228 vs  Â£309
<diddledan> the A6 is their so-called APU range, right? in which case pound-for-pound the graphics will be better in the APU than the intel
<ali1234> maybe, but who uses integrated graphics seriously?
<diddledan> true
<directhex> you can crossfire an APU with a real GPU
<ali1234> that's pretty cool
<diddledan> I like my bulldozer 8-way unit even though it's an odd design
<mgdm> what's an 'APU' (aside from the aeronautical sense)
<directhex> http://www.amd.com/us/products/technologies/dual-graphics/pages/dual-graphics.aspx#3
<directhex> mgdm, amd's current name for on-cpu gpu
<ali1234> in this context, a CPU+GPU on one die
<mgdm> aaaah
<diddledan> accelerated processing unit - effectively it's a cpu+gpu
<ali1234> in smartphone context it means application processor - kind of a locked down co-processor where the user OS runs, and isn't allowed to touch any radio hardware without going through the real CPU
<ali1234> (this is also how raspberry pi works)
<livingdaylite> popey: this was a review on the AMD zoostorm you linked me: http://pastebin.com/PtM0kLa2
<ali1234> psychonauts finally installed. no icon for it in the menus though.
<ali1234> why apport why? http://ubuntuone.com/3mpP4Cpld1AA6f9aDv9mnZ
<livingdaylite> ali1234: http://bit.ly/Nh24A3 bulldozer processor
<ali1234> it only has 4GB
<livingdaylite> only? but price is pretty good... overall
<livingdaylite> I have a few gb on my current pc I can carry over
<ali1234> you are better off getting 8GB and dual core
<livingdaylite> ram more important than processor?
<ali1234> yes
<diddledan> I want more "gigs"
<livingdaylite> oh?!
<directhex> gigglebytes!
<diddledan> \o/
 * diddledan giggles like a girly
<livingdaylite> I thought 4gb more than enough
<ali1234> i can set my computer to powersave mode (800mhz) and it barely make any difference
<ali1234> 4GB however was unusably slow
<ali1234> so i upgraded to 16
<livingdaylite> but, like I say I have ram to carry over and make up the difference
<diddledan> yeah, I want 16.. I'm on 8 atm in here and 6 in my old black macbook
<livingdaylite> but, amd fx processors good
<livingdaylite> *quad core
<diddledan> I like mine, but I don't really know enough to dislike it - it works, that's about as advanced as I get
<ali1234> phenom 2 is supposed to be almost as good
<ali1234> unless you need integrated graphics
<diddledan> mine's an octo-core :-D
<ali1234> yeah you won't get a 8 core cpu for under Â£200
<diddledan> although each pair is crippled into only having one FPU to share
<ali1234> just for the cpu, not including everything else
<diddledan> indeed
<ali1234> i might get e X6
<ali1234> AlanBell: when openmary says "thank you" it sounds a lot like something else
<AlanBell> I could add a button for that
<ali1234> needs a js speech synth really
<mgdm> run festival through emscripten? :P
<ali1234> http://www.p01.org/releases/JS1K_Speech_Synthesizer/JS1K_Speech_Synthesizer.htm
<ali1234> makes a better drum machine than speech synthesizer
<webpigeon> Drum mashine might me optimistic...
<webpigeon> s/me/be/
<AlanBell> decent speech synth is quite heavy
<AlanBell> as this is a small vocabulary you could sample the lot
<AlanBell> but then you don't get to parameterise it and change the pitch etc
<diddledan> they say there's gonna be a "Linux" version of this game if they get enough funding
<diddledan> http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/935411564/hexit-point-and-click-sci-fi-adventure-game
<gebbione> hi i m trying to set a path to an alias with a space in it
<gebbione> and using something like alias zf='/path/here web/ZendFramework-1.11.11/bin/zf.sh'
<gebbione> but if i run zf it says
<gebbione>    /path/here   No such file or directory
#ubuntu-uk 2012-06-14
<webpigeon> gebbione: spaces mark the end of a command and start of an argument, put \ before the space and you should be okay :)
 * webpigeon thinks...
<diddledan> careful, that's dangerous
<diddledan> :-p
<diddledan> thinking I mean
<webpigeon> diddledan: indeed
<webpigeon> not thinking is more dangerous most of the time though ^^
<diddledan> the quotes will allow spaces in defining the alias, but you need to allow the space on the commandline when it's expanded out, so you need either three \ characters before the space OR the quotes as you have them and a  single \ before the space
<webpigeon> intresting, I tried creating the alias here (admidlty without the folder) and the alias seemed to work (told me the full path didn't exist)
<diddledan> hmm, mayhaps I'm wrong?
<diddledan> wouldn't surprise me :-p
<webpigeon> I can't be 100% sure either way
<gebbione> my aliases disappear after i close the terminal
<gebbione> where can i save them permanently
<gebbione> .profile?
<diddledan> .bash_aliases
<diddledan> ref: .bashrc line 94
<gebbione> added it there i hope it ll work in my next login
<diplo> Morning all
<MooDoo> morning all
<mattt> woo, morning
 * mattt is tired today, and is trying to counterbalance with some enthusiasm
<daubers> Morning
<dwatkins> hiya folks
<daubers> So the hospital told me yesterday that my brain isn't trying to eat itself. This appears to be good news
<MartijnVdS> daubers: yay
<christel> that sounds like good news indeed!
<daubers> Yup. They still don't know why I've lost part of my vision though.
<MartijnVdS> daubers: not even a wild guess?
<daubers> Nope! They thought it was either MS or something causing pressure on the back of my eye/optic nerve. An MRI scan later has disproved both of those
<MartijnVdS> I assume they checked for detached retina etc. as well?
<daubers> Yup. It's part of my visual field missing which normally rules out a detatched retina
<daubers> (apparently)
<DJones> Is it affecting your work or are you able to carry on as normal
<mattt> daubers: jeez, scary
<daubers> DJones: having the results now means I can carry on as normal! It's just the inside edge of my peripheral vision is missing (so I don't really notice it until I'm playing squash or something)
<czajkowski> aloha
<daubers> czajkowski: o/
<AlanBell> morning all
<DJones> daubers: Thats good, hopefully means driving is also ok, they seem to get a bit (understandably) pick with vision problems and driving
<daubers> DJones: Yeah, until it's a certain percentage of your vision then it's ok (apparently) and it's only my left eye that's gone weird
<mattt> daubers: hope it's something transient
<daubers> mattt: We'll see. It's hung around for just over a month now. Got to be retested in 6 months.
<DJones> hope it settles down and clears
<MartijnVdS> http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b01jqjl5/The_Turing_Solution/
<MartijnVdS> ^ BBC Radio Four about Turing
<davmor2> morning all
<czajkowski> davmor2: you're on early
 * davmor2 hugs czajkowski 
<czajkowski> see now you're just going to confuse people
<MartijnVdS> ^ also about Bletchley Park and Enigma etc.
<dwatkins> I went to Bletchley Park a couple years ago, it's a great day out.
<directhex> yes.
<directhex> also, it's near ikea, so you can buy a LEKTORP while you're at it
<dwatkins> I tried to buy an EFFETTIV but they have discontinued it, so I bought a 2nd hand plinth from their returns department and sawed it up to make the shelf I wanted.
<MartijnVdS> or LACK 19" cabinet^Wtable
<dwatkins> I keep walking past shops and seeing the EXPEDIT units in the windows.
<dwatkins> They're everywhere, I tell you! ;)
<directhex> dwatkins, EXPEDIT is iconic
<directhex> and also fabulous
<dwatkins> Yeah, I have three of them myself.
<directhex> i love the idea of a standardized square internal space, which can be transferred between units
<dwatkins> 2x2, 2x4 and 4x4
<mattt> i had one of those shelves, they were heavy as can be
<dwatkins> Building the 4x4 was not easy. I don't think I have enough floor space to make a 5x5.
<directhex> matti, not really, they're all cardboard construction
<directhex> dwatkins, i have a 5x5, and the discontinued last-gen 5x5 tv. the baby's room has two 2x4
<dwatkins> oh, it's 4x5, actually, perhaps I would. I wonder if you can put that long side vertical
<dwatkins> ah yes, there is no 4x5
<dwatkins> clearly I need moar coffee
<bigcalm_laptop> Good morning kids :)
 * dwatkins ponders putting shelving units together vertically to take advantage of his 12-foot ceiling
<dwatkins> hiya bigcalm_laptop
 * bigcalm_laptop pokes davmor2 viciously
 * davmor2 hugs bigcalm_laptop sounds like he needs it
 * czajkowski peers at this hugging davmor2 
<davmor2> czajkowski: PROD!!! see that's what happens when I'm nice it freaks people out :D
<czajkowski> it's nor normal I tell you
<directhex> ali1234, i got my own bastion build :D
<directhex> https://twitter.com/humblesupport/status/213179642553708544
<digicomm> i love humble bundle
<directhex> digicomm, 15 hours before that tweet...
<directhex> 13-06-2012 18:16:42 > directhex: urkle, good news is: 360 pad works, fullscreen works. bad news is: fullscreen only works when turning *off* fullscreen, fullscreen on = windowed. off = fullscreen
<directhex> 14-06-2012 00:15:29 < urkle!~urklegnom@adsl-75-46-95-87.dsl.ipltin.sbcglobal.net: directhex: WHAT!! are you serious?
<directhex> 14-06-2012 01:05:06 < urkle!~urklegnom@adsl-75-46-95-87.dsl.ipltin.sbcglobal.net: directhex: Thanks for the report!  I've got it fixed now..
<digicomm> that's not how i would expect to have gone fullscreen...
<czajkowski> directhex: hows the new addition
<JamesTait> Good morning all! :D
<digicomm> good morning!
<directhex> czajkowski, keeping us awake
<Linuxisyourfrien> When someone says
<digicomm> i have an ubuntu related question which someone here may have an answer to - i'm looking to edit a bit of video, nothing extensive, just a few transitions and a voiceover. does anyone have any recommendations as to a good video editing suite in ubuntu?
<JamesTait> digicomm: Openshot is the first name that springs to mind.
<gord> i use kdenlive all the time its great
<gord> stay away from pitivi
<Linuxisyourfrien> You have not beeuse pitivi
<Linuxisyourfrien> I mean, use pitivi
<JamesTait> I haven't done a lot of video editing, mind, so I couldn't give any idea of how good it is in relation to other packages.
<JamesTait> I used pitivi a long time ago, when it was still very young. I should give it another look.
<gord> pitivi will crash and you'll lose all your stuff and it will frustrate you. that seems to be about all it does
<digicomm> Thanks for the suggestions, I appreciate it. I've heard about Openshot but not used it before, and I've just taken a look at the kdenlive website. It looks quite good!
<digicomm> Openshot looks nice to use, going by the website
<gord> pretty much, openshot has less features and video editing niceities, but its designed more around being easier to use
 * AlanBell hugs openshot
<bigcalm_laptop> gord: where are you?
<DJones> Have I gone back/foward in time to April 1st ? http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/46114/vodafone-booster-brolly-charges-phone-improves-signal
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<davmor2> Oi gord YUNOTLUVUS?
<gord> ha, i totally forgot AND i thought it was wednesday
<gord> apparently its not
<gord> such a nice day for it too
<bigcalm_laptop> gord: I forgot that it was a workplace day when I woke up. Arrived 20+ mins late due to traffic
<bigcalm_laptop> Working from home has its advantages
<DJones> Wonder how much these people charge for people using IE6 http://goo.gl/LNFt9 An online retailer planning on charging IE7 users and extra 7%
<MartijnVdS> DJones: VERY good idea :)
<popey> thats excellent
<mattt> bigcalm_laptop: i hate traffic
<gord> if i went to a website and it told me it would charge me more for using firefox say, i think i would just use a different website instead of changing browser
<bigcalm_laptop> If everybody did it, there would be cries of discrimination
<bigcalm_laptop> If one can do so against a bit of software
<popey> surely it's just a marketing thing
<popey> kogan isn't exactly a well known brand
 * bigcalm_laptop grumbles at the Kogan tablet
<oimon> have you seen people on facebook posting disclaimers on their profile ?
<popey> no
<oimon> http://www.snopes.com/computer/facebook/privacy.asp
<popey> oh, yes
<popey> i have
<popey> i am pondering stripping down my facebook account to family/friends only
<popey> i have loads of ubuntu people on mine
<oimon> I use g+ for that
<popey> yeah
<oimon> i have no work employees on my fb
<oimon> i don't want to be judged by colleagues on my personal life
<popey> hah
<oimon> or pre-judged
<BigRedS> q
<BigRedS> oops
<czajkowski> hmm how does one create a list on fb or is it so in front of me I cant see it
 * mrevell_ is now intrigued by oimon's personal life.
<oimon> so are my colleagues
<mrevell> :)
<oimon> one of them said the other day "are you a mormon or something"
 * czajkowski posts random odd stuff to facebook and so far my boss doesnt think I'm any weirder than before :) 
<czajkowski> mrevell: :)
<mrevell> hah :)
<oimon> i also don't want colleagues to be jealous of my beautiful wife and kid :0o
<oimon> of course everyone thinks his own wife is the most beautiful woman in the world..
<popey> they do?
<popey> poor delluded fools
<popey> my wife is the most beautiful woman who decided to accept my marriage proposal
<TheOpenSourcerer> Mine's pretty hot but Kylie Minougue, or Amy Pond would get my vote 1st :-)
<popey> heh
<popey> Kylie Pope you mean.
<oimon> i have a secret crush on amy pond
<popey> "secret" you say?
<oimon> however not the real acteress
<popey> in a publicly logged irc channel;
<czajkowski> lol
<shauno> this should be a silly question, but what's the path to grub.cfg?  (I know I should be able to find it, but if I could boot, I wouldn't be looking for it :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> shauno: /boot/grub/grub.cfg
<shauno> cheers
<shauno> doing some pretty depraving things with grub-efi trying to get this thing to boot :)
<shauno> hm.  it's still not having it.  I managed make the screen go purple tho, which is further than normal
<kvarley> popey: To get a shell you could add ssh to the bootcmd.txt file and then see if you can get your shares to work from there
<popey> ta
<MooDoo> afternoon all
<dogmatic69> o/
<brobostigon> o/
<HazRPG> o/
<MooDoo> ooo i feel all popular :)
<oimon> can anyone recommend a good syslog server? i.e a centrallised syslog linux server that maybe also has a nice web app to show and filter the logs?
<MooDoo> hello davmor2
<davmor2> AYUP MooDoo
<MooDoo> davmor2: how's it hanging lad
<davmor2> MooDoo: Meh you know like that with a little of this thrown in for good measure
<MartijnVdS> oimon: I know one.. let me find it
<MooDoo> davmor2: that good eh!
<MartijnVdS> oimon: http://logstash.net/
<oimon> great, cheers, will look at this
<davmor2> MooDoo: ah but well you know how it goes
<oimon> MartijnVdS, have you used it?
<diplo> ali1234: Just like to say thanks for your script, didn't use it but it put me in the right direction and have mine working now
<diplo> If you do oimon - share your thoughts, I've been meaning to try something like this
<MartijnVdS> oimon: I haven't but our sysadmins have
<oimon> looks flippin awesome
<oimon> just watching the video presentation
<MartijnVdS> Good :)
<chturne> Anyone here know of companies in the UK that sell laptops with no OS? I've seen novatech, but they don't sell any laptops with a decent screen resolution. I vaguely remember Dell doing this, but can no longer find the offer on their site.
<DJones> hi chturne This might be a useful link for you looking for a computer with no operating system http://nakedcomputers.org/
<chturne> Lenovo used to sell laptops with FreeDOS, but that's temporarily unavailable now.
<chturne> DJones, I looked through the website, but some of the information is out of date now (the lenovo & Dell deals I just mentioned, I was pointed to it from that site :-()
<DJones> Ah well, thought it was worth mentioning
<chturne> And obviously it's much more common for the companies to be selling desktops with GNU/Linux rather than laptops.
<chturne> I was advised from a sales rep at laptopsdirect.co.uk that the OEM only charges about Â£5 per unit for the Windows OS (due to the number of computers they install Windows on), but I found this dubious at best, since I've heard stories of people rejecting the EULA and getting upwards of 80 euros back.
<chturne> I can't really be bothered with the hassle of rejecting the EULA though.
<ali1234> it's true
<ali1234> it works like this:
<ali1234> the OEM pays $80 to microsoft for windows
<ali1234> then, they get paid $75 to install all the trial software like norton, psp, and all the other junk
<directhex> chturne, only apple have decent laptop resolutions now ;)
<chturne> Oh interesting, I always wondering why they inflicted that shit on the users.
<directhex> microsoft actually have a programme for crapware-free computers
<directhex> "Microsoft Signature"
<ali1234> yes, it costs $99
<directhex> is a pc with only windows on it
<ali1234> i will do it for $98.99
<directhex> http://signature.microsoft.com/
<directhex> "Many new PCs come filled with lots of trialware and sample software that slows your computer downâremoving all that is a pain, so we do it for you! Every PC the Microsoft Store sells is put on a software diet and performance is tuned to run the best it can. "
<AlanBell> retailers call them "incremental revenue opportunities"
<AlanBell> and are somewhat miffed that Ubuntu doesn't provide them
<chturne> I don't care about the crapware as I'll just be wiping the disk and reinstalling an OS. I find it irksome that I'll be paying for an OS I'm not going to use. But if it's just Â£5, maybe I should worry about it too much.
<chturne> *shouldn't
<ali1234> you should just buy a second hand laptop
<AlanBell> the retailer gets a cut when people convert trialware, so they stuff on kaspersky and dodgy office suites.
<chturne> Mm, I always worry about that route, ali1234.
<davmor2> chturne: you can look at Linux emporium but you will pay a premium
<chturne> I have good & bad experiences with it.
<diplo> Or System76 ship to the UK now?
<ali1234> second hand laptop from a quality manufacturer will cause you less problems than a brand new one from a rubbish manufacturer
<brobostigon> anyways, cant you buy a machine with windows, and then get the licence cost refunded. ?
<chturne> davmor2, ouch, that doesn't seem to be saving any money, like you mention. I've no problem buying the laptop from lenovo myself and installing GNU/Linux, don't need a middleperson :)
<dwatkins> brobostigon: yeah, a colleague of mine did that a few years ago as she ran OpenSuSE.
<brobostigon> dwatkins: ah, could be a solution for chturne then.
<chturne> brobostigon, I think it's a massive hassle to reject the EULA though
<dwatkins> brobostigon: I suspect they expect few enough people to do it they aren't losing a lot of money
<brobostigon> chturne: maybe, but it would be a solution,
<chturne> Indeed.
<brobostigon> dwatkins: i would agree, in the overall scheme of things.
<chturne> Thanks for the input everyone. Sad times that I can't just chose no OS from every OEM. :'-(
<dwatkins> chturne: they have deals which sometimes preclude them from offering blank PCs, I gather
<chturne> dwatkins, yes, I've heard they're sometimes pressured into these matters. I can't blame the OEMs I suppose.
<dwatkins> chturne: yeah, if 98% of their customers want Windows, and the other 2% mostly want Windows and Linux, I can understand it.
<ali1234> i've only ever bought owned one computer than came with a legit windows license, it was the first and last
<chturne> ali1234, where do you suggest shopping for 2nd hand laptops?
<ali1234> at computer fairs, if they still exist, or take a gamble on ebay
<ali1234> a lot of people sell them when windows breaks these dys
<chturne> I'm quite tempted to just bite the bullet and get a macbook pro :D
<ali1234> yes, do it
 * dwatkins agrees as he has a 13" MBP
<dwatkins> if you really want a PC or laptop for running windows, either consider dual-booting a Macbook, or have a look at Dell's outlet which sometimes has some good bargains.
<chturne> dwatkins, yeah. The follow worry is probably *completely unfounded*, but I sometimes worry with Apple that in a few months the Macbook ProPro will come out and completely obsolete my purchase.
<ali1234> it came out two days ago
<dwatkins> chturne: if your purpose is to have the latest model, then yes, but there's no need to do that if you just want a computer to use as a tool.
<chturne> ali1234, hmwat?
<dwatkins> one reason Apple's stuff is more expensive is that it's quite well specced, so it'll still be useable for many years as a machine comparable to PC-type laptops
<oimon> although not upgradeable or fixable
<ali1234> http://store.apple.com/us/configure/MC976LL/A do it
<oimon> the RAM is soldered onto the latest incarnation
<chturne> 15 in mb pro, 2.6 quad core i7, 8 GiB RAM, 750 GiB hard disk = Â£1528.80. This will probably last me for the next 7 years, as I all I really do is read documents and code.
<dwatkins> oimon: I was quite surprised about the latest model, I gather it's to keep them as small as possible. My 2010 one has replaceable RAM, and I've upgraded the hard disk.
<oimon> i bought a laptop from dell outlet for Â£500 4 years ago which still feels quite new
<oimon> included 3yr support
<dwatkins> I got 4 GB of RAM, which is plenty unless I start running multiple virtual machines. The hard disk is both the most likely to fail and the first thing I'd want to upgrade in a laptop.
<ali1234> the new thing has SSD only
<ali1234> you can't replace it
<dwatkins> indeed, ali1234 - I was surprised at that move
<directhex> you can't add ram to the new mac
<dwatkins> directhex: indeed, it's soldered to the motherboard, presumably to keep the machine small
<directhex> but if you run windows on it, you can use a fast usb stick and windows ReadyBoost(tm) technology!
<chturne> haah
<ali1234> does windows even support 16GB?
<dwatkins> if you're running on x64, yeah - you can have up to 192 GB RAM
<dwatkins> 2 TB if you're running Windows Server 2008 Datacenter or Enterprise, apparently.
<dwatkins> s/2008/2008\ R2/
<diplo> Quite like the look of logstash oimon / MartijnVdS
<diplo> ta, will give that a go tomorrow/next week i think
<oimon> working on getting it running here
<diplo> oh, cool lmk then :)
<ali1234> has anyone seen the new accomplishments thing working?
<AlanBell> ye
<AlanBell> yes, I have
<ali1234> it's forgotten all the accomplishments i had before, and won't give me any new ones
<AlanBell> there is #ubuntu-accomplishments with people who might be able to fix that
<AlanBell> cielak and jono
<dwatkins> logstash gets +1 internet points for an amusing mascot
<shauno> I really don't get the backlash over soldered ram.  seems fud's the same game in every camp
<dwatkins> shauno: people like to have the option of upgrading or repairing their RAM or hard disk
<shauno> their 16GB option is 30euro more than the same thing from crucial.  and that's as far as the chipset goes
<shauno> and the ssd is removable.  there'll be third-party variants in short order; exactly the same thing happened with the air
<dwatkins> yeah, I think it's because it's the Macbook Pro, not the Air (which it's expected for because of the size)
<dwatkins> there's removable and easily replaced, of course - I was able to buy a Seagate hybrid SATA 2.5" hard disk and fit it without taking my laptop to a shop for this to be done
<shauno> I think I'm actually getting closer to getting ubuntu booted.  the screen goes black and the fans go nuts, so something must be alive
<ahayzen> Hi, Was just browsing http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/ and noticed that i am logged in on wordpress as 'Joey Sneddon'... thats not good right? Andy
<dwatkins> ahayzen: how can you tell you're logged in as Joey?
<ahayzen> in the wordpress bar at the top
<ahayzen> it says 'Howdy, Joey Sneddon'
<dwatkins> I see the same, but when I go to edit my profile, I get the login screen.
<ahayzen> same
<dwatkins> probably just a template error
<dwatkins> I'm sure he'd be glad if you pointed it out, though
<ahayzen> dwatkins: After going that it has now gone back
<ahayzen> what is the best way to contact him?
<dwatkins> hooray :)
<popey> "Joey-Elijah Sneddon" <joeysneddon@gmail.com>,
<ahayzen> thanks
<popey> np
<ahayzen> seems after you click edit my profile it sorts itself out
<mgdm> if they're using a cache like Varnish or something, that can happen too
<shauno> This really is getting odd.  I can boot into rescue mode just fine.  Booting regular doesn't appear to get past grub
<dogmatic69> I have a network pretty much like http://i.imgur.com/95hZB.png (awesome drawing, I know)
<dogmatic69> How can I open up the webserver to outside and not the rest?
<shauno> does it need to be the whole machine? simple portforwarding to the required services would seem most easiest
<dogmatic69> I guess that would do
<dogmatic69> so just forward 80 to the server.
<shauno> gosh, 'most easiest' .. I used to speak english :(
<dogmatic69> lol
<gord> most easiest is perfectly cromulent english
<dogmatic69> Not that I am a network expert, but was thinking to somehow have the webserver on a different ip range
<dwatkins> dogmatic69: your router would have to suppert a DMZ for that to work
<dogmatic69> dwatkins: is it worth it?
<gord> dogmatic69, thing of it this way, the router blocks all incoming connections to all ip ranges by default, all you are doing by port forwarding is opening one that directly routes to that computer and no others
<dogmatic69> that is what I read about a while ago, thanks. Just forgot the name
<dwatkins> dogmatic69: if you're opening up port 80 and other people will be able to save to your webserver (e.g. write their own php scripts) then it might be worth considering, but if you're just serving up flat, dumb html, it's not something I'd worry about.
<dogmatic69> gord: cool, so it is safe to assume that if only 80 was forwarded and ssh was on 22 there would be no way (besides normal file inclusion or other web hacking) that they would be able to gain access?
<dogmatic69> well its php, but should be pretty secure. also it will mostly be behind http auth as well, along with not actually being linked around the web
<dwatkins> well, if you're running Tomcat 6 or below you might have some security holes to worry about
<dwatkins> apache should be fine, so long as it's configured to listen only on port 80
<gord> dogmatic69, yup
<dogmatic69> I use cherokee
<dogmatic69> it will mostly be to host client stuff while being developed, saves having to deploy demos all the time
<TheFred> hello
<grogoreo> hi
<grogoreo> The tab button on my laptop has broken, is it possible to change the mapping so Alt-GR or 'Right Click' button is tab instead?
<BigRedS> grogoreo: generally, yes. But I can't remember how to do it, though :(
<BigRedS> the common one is to swap caps-lock and escape, so a bit of googling for that should get you there
<grogoreo> Ta BigRedS, I'll have a look
<gord> grogoreo, if you are using unity, you can use ccsm to configure the unity plugin and change the key bindings for alt tab
<grogoreo> gord, I'm using Gnome 3 but have seen xmodmap so seeing if that'll help.Ta
<gord> grogoreo, oh, well then just open the keyboard settings, you can change the shortcuts there
<scoobymad555_> hey guys, anyone able to give me a little help? i'm a noob that's in over my head a bit (courtesy of being let down by someone). Think I have probs with my network config but not really sure where to start! Trying to get multiple path iscsi working to a freenas hosted target and getting an error saying that the ubuntu end can't resolve the host but it then goes on to do it anyway and then tells me it can't add the portal or the targe
<scoobymad555_> t record. The freenas side is ok as tested with an ms laptop and working.
<DJones> AlanBell: Is this of any interest to you? http://www.pcpro.co.uk/features/375148/the-fight-to-see-my-pc
<MartijnVdS> http://open.spotify.com/album/2uxIbwxVNfzaauqlycPlII
<MartijnVdS> popey: ^
<AlanBell> DJones: yeah, that is interesting
<TheOpenSourcerer> AlanBell: Pick you up about 06:30 ok?
<TheOpenSourcerer> well 18:30 to be more correct
<DJones> AlanBell: I thought it might be useful
<DJones> Certainly for the accessibility team, give a number of insights that people wouldn't think about
<AlanBell> TheOpenSourcerer: yup, that would be great
<TheOpenSourcerer> OK see you on 30mins
<TheOpenSourcerer> s\on\in
<AlanBell> DJones: they have been thought about :)
<AlanBell> DJones: mostly features that exist in compiz or are better on Ubuntu than windows, and all features that the unity team have broken in some way or other
<AlanBell> they are mostly un-broken now though
<DJones> AlanBell: I would love to get my wifes uncle using Ubuntu, he's registered blind, still has some vision though, but with him living in newcastle, a 5 hour drive each for support isn't sustainable
<bigcalm> Ello
<DJones> Jello
<Azelphur> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-1844097 winning :D
<DJones> 404?
<bigcalm> Bello
<DJones> Don't shout :)
<Azelphur> hmm
<Azelphur> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-18440979 oops, cut the last number off
<DJones> Saw that earlier, its quite a good idea
<Azelphur> indeed
<DJones> Just needs somebody like amazon (as a big online retailer) to do something similar to see if it gets anywhere
<DJones> kogan aren't exactly a well know, hi-calibre distributor
<Azelphur> indeed :p
<DJones> I wondered what percentage they added to IE6 based orders
<DJones> Maybe if you use IE6 to order something, you get a full refund to help you buy a computer capeable of running a "modern" browser
<webpigeon> If you use IE6 you get a free subscription to a job agency of your choice... DJones
<DJones> webpigeon: s/job agency/insane asylum/
<webpigeon> DJones++
<diplo> evening all
<Azelphur> haha
<diplo> We still have people on Fifrefox 1 to our sites
<diplo> and IE6 about 2-3%
<lazarus_> skype finally got updated
<diplo> Told boss i won't support 6 anymore, and maybe 7
<diplo> but 8 should be our limit
<ging> is there an issue with flush for firefox on ubuntu at the moment?
<zleap> hi
<bigcalm> How does one specify which key to use when signing a file?
<bigcalm> (gpg)
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: from the manpage:
<MartijnVdS> The key to be used for signing  is chosen  by  default  or  can  be  set  with the --local-user and --default-key options.
<bigcalm> That worked, ta
<bigcalm> I did look though the man page, but didn't actually understand most of it :)
<bigcalm> That's the Ubuntu CoC signed
<bigcalm> Why am I struggling to find a link to the freenode CoC?
<ali1234> because they don't have one?
<ali1234> only this http://freenode.net/channel_guidelines.shtml
<ali1234> http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/18441163 i have to start watching this show
<dwatkins> Things not to talk about on the DVD commentary....
<meet> how long does upgrading to 12.04 from 11.10 take? i am done with the download packages step.
<diddledan> sorry about the zz_diddledan clones I forgot to turn off my "other" system
<Azelphur> ali1234: got my G19 open atm, this board looks like it's in a rather bad state o.O https://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/Photos/2012/June/IMG_20120615_002420.jpg
<Azelphur> it looks like it's been burned or something, o.O
<ali1234> someone went crazy with the flux pen
<ali1234> it's not really a problem
<ali1234> you can clean it off with acetone if you want
<Azelphur> fair enough
<Azelphur> I got my multi meter out which I have no idea how to use anyway, haha
<Azelphur> it's got 3 sockets on it for the probes, COM (-) which I assume is for the black lead
<Azelphur> but then on the other side it has two sockets
<Azelphur> DC10AM (10A MAX) akd V - Ohms - A (1000V MAX)
<ali1234> COM is ground
<Azelphur> and*
<ali1234> well you won't be measuring amps so use the other one
<Azelphur> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/Photos/2012/June/IMG_20120615_003052.jpg there we go that'll make it easier :P
<Azelphur> I want the bottom left and bottom right since I'm measuring volts not amps?
<Azelphur> and probably the 30V setting?
<ali1234> yes. 10V
<Azelphur> ye 10v xD
<ali1234> the power supply is 5V right?
 * Azelphur checks
<Azelphur> yup 5v
<ali1234> ok you see that big chip with the middle leg unconnected? that is probably the main voltage regulator
<ali1234> check the voltage across it
<ali1234> black probe on the bottom leg, which is cnnected to the ground plane, and red on the top leg
<ali1234> it should read 5V or maybe 3.3V
<Azelphur> ok I need to be powered on for that I assume
<ali1234> actually forget that
<ali1234> that's a fat transistor, it's probably the thing that controls thebacklight power
<Azelphur> not sure what a transistor is, also not getting anything from those pins
<ali1234> is the backlight on?
<gebbione> nslookup is not returning a response for a domain i added in my hosts file, do i need to reload something to make it aware of the hosts changes?
<Azelphur> yup
<ali1234> gebbione: you shouldn't do, no
<Azelphur> gebbione: shouldn't have to, try dig
<diddledan> nslookup and dig bypass the hosts file
<diddledan> they go direct to DNS
<Azelphur> typing colemak on a qwerty keyboard is fun xD
<ali1234> dig doesn't, nslookup does
<ali1234> Azelphur: does the keyboard stop working when it is only connected on usb?
<gebbione> dig returns both the dns response as well as the details from hosts i think
<Azelphur> ali1234: with the mains power out? the keyboard itself works but all the extra features power down (extra buttons, LCD, etc)
<ali1234> yes, but does it crash?
<diddledan> ali1234, I think you're wrong about dig
<diddledan> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1041648/
<ali1234> diddledan: yeah, you're right
<Azelphur> ali1234: I'm confused, if you unplug the mains power, the keyboard turns off
<Azelphur> then nothing is powered up to crash xD
<ali1234> Azelphur: but does it crash??
<ali1234> so when it crashes, you can still type?
<Azelphur> yes when it crashes I can still type
<Azelphur> the keyboard is independent of the extra stuff
<ali1234> then the fault isn't on that board
<Azelphur> it has a built in USB hub
<Azelphur> ok
 * Azelphur photos more boards
<ali1234> trace where the LCD board gets power from
<ali1234> it might go through a regulator on that board or it might come directly from the PSU
<diddledan> heh, I suppose it was only time before keyboards started crashing independently to the host system :-p
<Azelphur> I think it comes direct from the PSU
<ali1234> this keyboard runs linux
<Azelphur> there's a red wire that appears to come from the power cable and head off in the LCDs direction
<ali1234> what about usb data?
<ali1234> that must go through the hub board
<Azelphur> looks like there's another board directly below the board you have a photo of
<Azelphur> because the USB ports are directly underneath that board
<ali1234> probably
<ali1234> i can see where they are connected to the top board
<ali1234> hmm there's a capacitor missing off the board
<ali1234> C1 next to that ribbon cable
<ali1234> that probably isn't good
<Azelphur> that board is double sided, there's lots more fun on the bottom
<Azelphur> o.O
<Azelphur> you have a capacitor that I don't?
<ali1234> maybe, maybe not
<ali1234> but there's empty pads
<ali1234> and the pads have solder on them
<Azelphur> I see
<ali1234> sometimes they leave out components to be cheap, but it might also have just not soldered on properly at the factory
<Azelphur> I can't see any components floating around inside
<Azelphur> so I'd imagine it's the former rather than the latter
<ali1234> you wouldn't
<Azelphur> oh?
<diddledan> the board itself may be a multi-product board and they just put the relevant components for each model ignoring the rest
<Azelphur> I took a bunch more photos, uploading now
<Azelphur> ali1234: https://www.dropbox.com/gallery/3832397/1/g19?h=ba2ed7
#ubuntu-uk 2012-06-15
<Azelphur> ali1234: on that voltage regulator I get 3V between the middle pin and the bottom pin
<Azelphur> but nothing between top and bottom
<ali1234> that is wrong
<ali1234> you should get 5V
<ali1234> on the middle leg
<ali1234> actually 5.09V when backight is on, 5.16V when it is off
<ali1234> i don't have a C1 either
<Azelphur> pretty sure I'm getting 3 on that
<ali1234> that indicates the power supply is dropping under load
<Azelphur> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/Photos/2012/June/IMG_20120615_011045.jpg
<Azelphur> but that's with the meter set to 30v
<Azelphur> if I set it to 10v the needle just flies off the end :p
<diddledan> got to add 10dB (?)
<ali1234> analog meter may require calibration
<Azelphur> hmm, how do I do that
<ali1234> wait
<ali1234> you have it set on AC
<ali1234> set it to DC +
<ali1234> slide switch on top right
<Azelphur> now I got just shy of 5V on the middle + bottom pin
<Azelphur> :)
<ali1234> ok well
<ali1234> since it stays connected to USB and you can type when it crashes
<ali1234> the fault is almost certainly with the wiring to the LCD board, or the LCD board itself
<Azelphur> seems like a reasonable assumption
<ali1234> but i still think it's your flaky motherboard usb ports
<Azelphur> ali1234: it definitely isn't, I had the same issue on my laptop
<Azelphur> I plugged it into my laptop for a while and tried to replicate the issue, it happened pretty quickly and more than once :P
<ali1234> what does dmesg say when it resets?
<Azelphur> I think your right about a faulty connection, simply typing can throw it occasionally though
<ali1234> over-current? or just resets?
<Azelphur> I think it just disconnects
<Azelphur> I'll try and replicate it again
<ali1234> could be bad wiring then
<ali1234> but there isn't much you can do about any of that anyway
<Azelphur> hehe, looks like it's gonna be annoying and not boot loop now that I want it to
<Azelphur> surely if it's just a bad connection, I can fix the connection
<ali1234> if you can find it
<ali1234> check which parts are live when the PSU is not connected
<ali1234> it won't be any of those
<Azelphur> I still get nothing with top and bottom pin of voltage regulator btw
<Azelphur> is that meant to happen
<ali1234> well the top pin is ground
<Azelphur> ah
<ali1234> i'm not sure about the middle one. it must be in a package where the middle pin is connected to the case, otherwise it is pointless
<ali1234> i suspect it switches the hub between bus power and self power
<Azelphur> ali1234: that was interesting, I literally just touched the power connector and it turned off
<ali1234> yes that will happen if you short it
<Azelphur> and if I mess with the power connector, but nowhere near pulling it out, the screen brightness flickers
<Azelphur> no I mean I touched it with my hand
<ali1234> not the metal parts?
<Azelphur> no, just the outside
<ali1234> maybe loose connection then
<Azelphur> and I can replicate that
<ali1234> you mean the boot?
<Azelphur> yes, a loose connection in the connectors
<Azelphur> yea
<Azelphur> literally all I have to do is squeeze the power connector and it turns off
<ali1234> ok then definitely bad connection
<ali1234> but you still need to track it down
<Azelphur> inside the board, or the power connector itself?
<ali1234> well it's going to be the cable, or where the cable connects to something
<Azelphur> I'm talking about the power connector at the end of the cable
<ali1234> which end?
<Azelphur> the end that takes power in
<ali1234> you mean where it plugs in?
<Azelphur> yea
<Azelphur> I literally just twiddle or squeeze that and boom
<ali1234> is it the right size connector?
<Azelphur> yup
<Azelphur> I should look for the stock PSU to see if I can replicate with it
<ali1234> well it should not do that
<Azelphur> indeed
<Azelphur> it's extremely delicate, minor movements even with the connector fully in the socket can reboot the keyboard
<diddledan> if it's not the original psu then I would guess that's where your problems lie
<ali1234> yeah that will be the problem
<Azelphur> diddledan: I bought the new PSU because I had this problem in an effort to solve it
<Azelphur> trying the stock PSU now
<diddledan> aah
<diddledan> ok
<diddledan> tis just I had an issue with a router where I was using an under powered psu where the router would just seemingly forget about port-forwards but otherwise would function normally
<Azelphur> dam, can't replicate it with the standard PSU \o/
<Azelphur> yay for trying to fix it and instead adding more problems
<Azelphur> I guess I can stick with the stock PSU for a bit, see if it happens again, and catch dmesg next time
<Azelphur> then we might have a better idea what's up
<ali1234> diddledan: perhaps not high enough voltage to erase flash :)
<diddledan> if memory serves it was the same voltage just a 1amp unit instead of 1.2
<Azelphur> hehe
<meet> how do i edit the icons in top right corner in 12.04?
<diddledan> ooh, blender's latest open movie is due in august/september
<diddledan> <3 those guys
<Azelphur> is that like a new buck bunny? :o
<diddledan> same idea, yeah
<diddledan> along those lines was sintel
<diddledan> they're using live-action footage
<diddledan> this time*
<diddledan> http://mango.blender.org
<diddledan> that's the project homepage
<diddledan> I kinda wish sintel was a full-length motion picture.. it has some epic themes
<diddledan> I just want "more" of it
<diddledan> that's here: http://www.sintel.org/
<knightwise> good morning everyone
<MartijnVdS> \o
<mattt> herro
<knightwise> hey guyz
<knightwise> how are you doing today :Ã 
<rjs1064> can i use an oem copy of win7 in virtualbox on 12.04?
<knightwise> yep
<knightwise> not a problem i guess
<knightwise> but make sure you have an oem code handy
<knightwise> i'm not sure if its legal .. but it does work
<rjs1064> it doesn't want to work though, gets to the bit where you tell it where the iso is and stalls
<knightwise> during the initial configuration of the vm or during the first bootup
<knightwise> http://www.ubuntugeek.com/how-to-create-new-virtual-machine-in-virtualbox.html
<knightwise> manual is a little older but should still work
<rjs1064> during first boot
<knightwise> did you check that you had enabled a cd rom in the vm ?
<rjs1064> 64 bit maybe the problem, will goo back to google, thanks for your help.
<MooDoo> morning all
<knightwise>  hey MooDoo :)
<diplo> Morning all
<knightwise> hey diplo
<bigcalm> Hello peeps :)
<bigcalm> Mornint Matt. Feel you can survive anything now?
<knightwise> hey guys
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<popey> yo
<brobostigon> hey popey
<popey> brobostigon: you should go and see HHGTTG, you would _love_ it
<popey> its utterly awesome
<JamesTait> Happy Friday, folks! :)
<brobostigon> popey: i can imagine, yes, i would love to. how much is it?
<popey> it was 25 quid a ticket
<popey> dunno if its the same at every venue
<brobostigon> popey: thats pretty good, i could afford that. :)
<popey> http://www.hitchhikerslive.com/tour-dates.html  1st July
<bigcalm> Things are more expensive down sauf
<popey> oxford isnt far from you is it?>
<brobostigon> popey: about an hours drive, or 20mins on the train.
<bigcalm> Ha! Just missed the Birmingham one
<popey> I can not recommend it highly enough for a true hhgttg fan, plenty to love
<brobostigon> :)
<brobostigon> i will try.
<AlanBell> it was great :)
<brobostigon> :)
<diplo> I'd like to see that, but not very close for me
<diplo> oimon: How did you get on with logstash yesterday ?
<diplo> Just resumed my laptop and the page was their :)
<shauno> dealextreme sell pirate hats now?  best news I've had all morning!
<matti> LOL
<davmor2> Morning all
<dogmatic69> o/
<bigcalm> Hi davmor2
<davmor2> bigcalm: morning dude
<davmor2> czajkowski: PROD
<czajkowski> davmor2: herro
<davmor2> czajkowski: how's you?
<czajkowski> yara not bad
<meet> how do i change the indicator applets in ubuntu 12.04??
<davmor2> meet: how do you mean change them
<meet> like i am using gnome and want to remove the universal access indicator which came back after upgrading to 12.04 from 11.10
<davmor2> meet: you can install dconf-editor and remove it that way if that helps, at least I think you can there are others that might be able to help you more though
 * bigcalm curls up in a corner and wishes the day would hurry up and end
<meet> how to remove previously added bluetooth devices from the bluetooth menu?
<oimon> diplo: it just worked on my ubunt box, but needed some coazing on centos
<oimon> its gonna be useful once i've configured the logs a bit more cleanly. i currently have lots of very verbose messages
<davmor2> bigcalm: :( here have a PROD to make you feel better
<bigcalm> davmor2: most helpful
<davmor2> bigcalm: any time
<oimon> could do with a prod
 * oimon is thinking about life (and jobs)
 * bigcalm dislikes having to jump for some clients. But sadly such clients pay us a lot of money for doing nothing except jump when they say so
<oimon> what would it take to shift you from a job you are reasonably happy in (in the present), but a little uncertain of the future (1+ years)
<oimon> if another job was offered to you by another comapny
<davmor2> oimon: simply ask that question
<oimon> i'm asking myself
<davmor2> oimon: that's my point if it is a question that is worrying you ask it at an interview :)  If the prospects are favourable then you a more likely to see yourself moving to it
<czajkowski> bigcalm: at the same time, the job your in lets you work from home, now many small companies do, so it's a trade off, plus a tthe end of the day, the client is paying so they are entiled tbh
<knightwise> Gah
<knightwise> idiots
<knightwise> Firm that we hired to to some penetration testing on an externel server host we use ..
<knightwise> just called up said host with the question " could we run some scripts on your infrastructure to do a penetration test"
<knightwise> *facepalm*
<czajkowski> whoo https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntuone-client/+bug/1008702
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 1008702 in Ubuntu One Client "When you publish a file on the web, it would be great to share it via social plugins" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<czajkowski> if folks could me too that
<czajkowski> it'd be good
<czajkowski> :)
<bigcalm> I should use U1 some day
<czajkowski> <3 U1
<czajkowski> would in fact be lost without it
<czajkowski> so handy taking pics and whoooosh uploaded to U1
<bigcalm> Happens with most sharing providers now
<popey> bigcalm: nope
<popey> with U1 they come down to your desktop
<popey> dropbox have _just_ added this feature
 * bigcalm shrugs :)
<BigRedS> I still want a way to have 'scp to server' in my 'share' menu for a picture
<SuperMatt> I'm still waiting for google drive
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: you don't need it with U1
<MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: that's live.. just go to drive.google.com
<popey> czajkowski: whats the name of the launchpad project which does the backend for unity-scopes-video-remote ?
<BigRedS> I'm not about to try to bend U1 into working on my server
<MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: or "-for-linux"?
<SuperMatt> for linux ;)
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: no you right-click a file and then "share"
<czajkowski> popey: no idea
<BigRedS> last time I checked they specifically didn't want you running it on Debian anyway
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: it'll get  an ugly ubuntuone.com URL
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: and other people can then download it
<popey> bah
<bigcalm> Anybody here use Air Display? And does the windows client work in wine?
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: you could put the ssh://host/path in your GTK/Nautilus bookmarks
<bigcalm> My googling has not returned helpful results
<MartijnVdS> and just drag it over
<popey> BigRedS: "they"? "it"?
<czajkowski> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntuone-servers/+bug/1006003  would also be a nice one to get implemented
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 1006003 in Ubuntu One Servers "No data available about user's published files" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<czajkowski> popey: https://launchpad.net/unity-lens-videos/remote-videos-scope
<popey> no, the backend, not that
<BigRedS> popey: on the U1 site, aages ago I tried to find a Debian installer and came across words to the effect of "here's what you need for Ubuntu and Windows, we'd rather you not use it elsewhere"
<popey> the thing that runs on http://videosearch.ubuntu.com
<popey> BigRedS: i have never seen that
<BigRedS> I've not looked since - I have little need for that sort of service since I have scp/rsync everywhere and I already know how to use that :)
<popey> BigRedS: and I don't believe that's the case, even if it may have been in the past
<czajkowski> wgrant may know in lp if you ask him no idea didnt know that page existed
<BigRedS> yeah, it's probably not the case any more, but it's still the first think I think of when someone mentions U1
<popey> if you search in the video lens, it goes off to that website to get results
<popey> http://videosearch.ubuntu.com/v0/search/
<popey> see^^
<popey> and AIUI that backend is in lp somewhere, but I dunno what it's called
<czajkowski> lemmie go and see what the bright sparks know
<BigRedS> and, besides, the only thing I want here is to scp a photo to a directory on my server - no need for any of the intelligence of U1 :)
<popey> i asked in #ubunutuone
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: Bookmark the path on your server (sshfs) and use that
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: sshfs-using-gvfs (ssh:// URLs)
<popey> /61/61
<popey> bah
<popey> found it!
<popey> https://launchpad.net/candiru
<BigRedS> MartijnVdS: I meant on my phone
<BigRedS> So I can take a photo and just copy it up to my stuff folder, rather than putting it on picasa and then guessing the URL
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: ah.. that's.. harder
<BigRedS> MartijnVdS: yeah
<MartijnVdS> G+ fixes that for me though
<MartijnVdS> Just share on G+ to people you want to share with.. done!
<BigRedS> yeah, that's what I do now
<BigRedS> but I'm getting more hippyish about my data being on my disks
<daubers> BigRedS: Long hair + van still to come?
<BigRedS> Long hair's here and I own a fifth of a transit
<BigRedS> very communal :)
<knightwise> i would love being able to use GooglePlus to auto post some articles of my blog towards
<knightwise> everytime i write a new post : poof : post on googleplus
<knightwise> the fact the thing has no API's is kinda crippling it for me right now
<dwatkins> knightwise: does this not do what you need? https://developers.google.com/+/api/
<AlanBell> dwatkins: all read only
<dwatkins> AlanBell: ah boo
<SuperMatt> hey guys, anyone know what package contains the xsessions file for kde?
<SuperMatt> I've installed kubuntu-desktop, but it's not there (I am using quantal btw)
<MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: apt-file search?
<SuperMatt> weird, got it now
<SuperMatt> just reinstalled kubuntu-desktop
<feisar> hi, what's the name of the script that secures a mysql install?
<feisar> I've used it but can't remember what it was called - it's installed by default
<SuperMatt> following the slashdot article about "why not use kde" I'm now using kde. It has a lot of nice touches, but I just can't get it to look nice and uniform
<BigRedS> SuperMatt: you'll spend ages getting it to look right, then next time you log in it will have forgotten ~60% of the changes you made
<BigRedS> feisar: secures in what sense?
<SuperMatt> BigRedS: sounds about right
<BigRedS> it defaults to being inaccessible from the network
<SuperMatt> It does look quite good some of the time, but when you load firefox it just doesn't fit in so it feels really wrong
 * bigcalm quaffs a decent amount of coffee from his oggcamp10 mug
<bigcalm> It's the mug that most people go for, right?
<feisar> BigRedS: I got it thanks - 'mysql_secure_installation'
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Phil Bull] It's raining Raspberry Pi - http://philbull.livejournal.com/60541.html
<feisar> SuperMatt: I started with KDE and loved it used it from 3.somthing all the way up to 4.2(or 3) and I gave up (sadly) not enough consistency. It can look amazing but it takes loads of customisation and then the next thing you install misses icons or looks wrong etc. Unity's not perfect but it seems to bug me less
<BigRedS> feisar: ooh, what does it do?
<feisar> there you go
<feisar> http://www.manpagez.com/man/1/mysql_secure_installation/
<feisar> just a couple of, simple, but really important steps
<BigRedS> ohh
<zleap> hello
<zleap> clear
<zleap> cls
<dwatkins> cls: no such file or directory
<zleap> THANKS
<zleap> i meant /clear
<zleap> typo
<zleap> hi
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: alias cls="echo No."
<dwatkins> nice MartijnVdS
<zleap> lol
<zleap> that was my error typing cls
<jacobw> evenage
<zleap> HI
<zleap> \me is is waiting for football to start
 * zleap is is waiting for football to start
 * bigcalm starting the weekend with a Belgian beer and more work
<bigcalm> What could go wrong?
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: World could end
<davmor2> bigcalm: you got that quote wrong again didn't you,  It's not all play and no work makes jack drunk
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: best drink more then
 * bigcalm writes in his journal
<MartijnVdS> journalling file system
<ali1234> "Uncertain of his sisterâs faith a boy enters LIMBO"
<ali1234> "faith"
<ali1234> wat
<davmor2> bigcalm: I just thought if you hiccup as much as you do without beer how much more do you hiccup with beer
<bigcalm> davmor2: how much do I hicup at the LUG meetings?
<bigcalm> It's down to food and talking
<davmor2> bigcalm: but beer is food right?
<bigcalm> Hehe
<Azelphur> Does anyone have any recommendations on a easy to use open source / free commerce system?
<ali1234> bitcoin
<ali1234> lol
<bigcalm> Azelphur: easy in what way?
<Azelphur> I know a few, just wondering if anyone has any specific recommendations of stuff that is particularly nice and simple
<Azelphur> bigcalm: easy in that someone with very little experience could set up and use it
<bigcalm> To dev with or just use?
<Azelphur> ali1234: bitcoin is a currency not an ecommerce system :p
<Azelphur> bigcalm: just use
<bigcalm> Magento might work
<Azelphur> yea I saw a few forum posts saying it's quite nice
<Azelphur> seems like magento charges for the good features though which is not too good
<davmor2> bigcalm: no he just has control over metal how's he gonna help with ecommerce ;)
<Azelphur> apparently things like caching and gift cards are off the tables unless you pay $15k/year
<bigcalm> davmor2: en not ne
<bigcalm> Azelphur: even if you host it yourself?
<Azelphur> bigcalm: yea
<bigcalm> Ah well
<bigcalm> Azelphur: write your own ;)
<Azelphur> haha
<Azelphur> an existing solution is better, as I say I know a few was just after specific recommendations / things people have been successful with :)
<dwatkins> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_free_and_open_source_eCommerce_software lists some choices, if you havn't already seen it
<bigcalm> I've dev'd for a Magento project. Not used one myself though
<dwatkins> s/if/in case/
<Azelphur> dwatkins: ty, doesn't really offer a comparison but has a few options
<BigRedS> Several of our customers run magento
<BigRedS> they're the ones with the highest-specced machines...
<mgdm> I've not used magento, but i"ve heard some stories
<lazarus_>  any ideas how to change the grub resoltion and plymouth also to a resolution of 1842x1026
<BigRedS> It seems to be very good and do everything you might want and be customisable and all that, but require a shedload of resources in the process
<BigRedS> From speaking to these customers, they've tried lighter-weight ones, and feel it's worth paying extra to run magento
<AlanBell> Azelphur: VirtueMart or Zencart might work
<Azelphur> AlanBell: Zencart has been on my short list :)
<AlanBell> oscommerce is another, not really looked at that myself
<Azelphur> yea I was basically thinking osCommerce or Zencart
<mgdm> I've heard bad things from people who have had to write code to fit inside osCommerce
<mgdm> again. not done it myself
<dwatkins> lazarus_: there's a text file you can edit with settings like that
<mgdm> <-- not done much ecommerce
<dwatkins> set gfxmode=640x480
<dwatkins> That might be it, lazarus_, in the grub.cfg - bear in mind that when you run grub-install, I think it might overwrite that from /etc/default/grub or somewhere else. Should be some relevant documentation online for whichever version you're using.
<bigcalm> My father is a member of a club. They want to have a centralised membership database that can be accessed and edited by various committee members at various levels. Would vtiger suit this, or be over kill? Or would something else be better suited?
<davmor2> bigcalm: I was expecting the My father is to end Darth Vader :D
<AlanBell> bigcalm: want to try a vtiger?
<bigcalm> AlanBell: I've been drinking beer, but sure :)
<bigcalm> !info vtiger
<lubotu3> Package vtiger does not exist in precise
<bigcalm> Boo
<davmor2> AlanBell, bigcalm: oh virtual tiger, is that like Virtual Fighter but with tigers, or is it the tiger equivalent of a tamgotchi :D
 * bigcalm downloads and throws it into a vhost
<MartijnVdS> yes
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: what you saying yes too
<MartijnVdS> yes
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: You're just a yes bot aren't you?
<MartijnVdS> indeed
<dwatkins> http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/250x250/12187931.jpg
<davmor2> Yay I broke the yes bot :D
<dwatkins> yes
<MartijnVdS> Noooo
<davmor2> We are the yes bots, resistance is futile
<davmor2> You will be Yes'd
 * dwatkins nods sagely
<bigcalm> Din dins!
<bigcalm> Toodles peeps
<AlanBell> bigcalm: I will set one up in a bit
<bigcalm> AlanBell: just installed it locally. Thanks though :)
<daubers> `o/
 * daubers unpacks more boxes
<jacobw> how's it going daubers?
<jacobw> davmor2: VF4 was the best fighter ever
<davmor2> jacobw: No VF Tiger is obviously a fantastic game you just ask AlanBell :)
<dwatkins> Can the launcher be moved to anywhere other than the left hand side of the screen in Unity?
<ali1234> no
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: not even in Arabic/Hebrew mode?
<ali1234> no
<MartijnVdS> not even by editing the source?
<dwatkins> ok, I'll use Cairo instead, ta
 * dwatkins notes there's an unofficial plugin
<ali1234> someone made a patch to allow moving it but canonical ignored it for several months and it went nowhere
<mgdm> dwatkins: does Cairo mean something other than cairographics.org?
<daubers> jacobw: Nearly done!
<MartijnVdS> mgdm: cairo dock
<dwatkins> mgdm: cairo-dock
<mgdm> ah
<daubers> mgdm: City in Egypt?
<mgdm> that's not even mildly confusing
<ali1234> it now hasn't been updated for 6 months so using it would mean using a buggy old unity
<mgdm> daubers: :D
<ali1234> even more buggy than the latest version that is
<dwatkins> ali1234: yeah, I suspected there might be version issues, I'd rather not use a plugin that's out of sync
<ali1234> sad that the canonical supporters constantly harp on about "send a patch! contribute!" and then totally ignore all contributions that do anything that isn't part of the plan
<dwatkins> ali1234: yes, I was thinking along those lines, or the fact that so many things on Ubuntu are wonderfully configurable, aside from this relatively fundamental part of the GUI
<ali1234> plenty of ubuntu is configurable, except for all the parts written by canonical
<ali1234> configuration isn't everything, just look at KDE
<dwatkins> yeah, it can be taken too far
<ali1234> i'd rather have something that worked by default, than something configurable
<ali1234> unfortunately unity is neither
<dwatkins> oh, I didn't realise it actually failed to work
<ali1234> yes, quite often in fact
<ali1234> see the multiple bugs with blank windows
<dwatkins> docky seems to work fine for my needs
<ali1234> sure
<jacobw> blank windows :(
<AlanBell> bigcalm: cool, shout if you have questions
<MartijnVdS> \o/ "timeout" command
<kane1309> hello who can help me ?
<AlanBell> depends on the question kane1309
<kane1309> can i pm you ?
<Azelphur> ?private | kane1309
<Azelphur> gah, different triggers xD
<Azelphur> !private | kane1309
<lubotu3> kane1309: Please ask your questions in the channel so that other people can help you, benefit from your questions and answers, and ensure that you're not getting bad advice. Please note that some people find it rude to be sent a PM without being asked for permission to do so first.
<Azelphur> !ask | kane1309
<lubotu3> kane1309: Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line and in the channel, so that others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-) See also !patience
<AlanBell> no, I don't know what the question is, and if you just ask me that won't help
<kane1309> ok i have windows 7 home premium 64 bit and 2 hard drives on my pc i want one hard drive to have windows 7 witch is already installed and the other one hae ubuntu but i dont no how to duel boot them
<AlanBell> !dualboot
<lubotu3> Dual boot instructions: x86/AMD64: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/DualBoot/Windows - Macs: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/MacBookPro https://help.ubuntu.com/community/YabootConfigurationForMacintoshPowerPCsDualBoot
<kane1309> i read the windows before ubuntu and it diddent make no sense :s
<AlanBell> I am not going to be masses of help here, I haven't set up dual boot for several years
<AlanBell> !grub2
<lubotu3> GRUB2 is the default Ubuntu boot manager since 9.10 (Karmic). Lost GRUB after installing Windows? See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RestoreGrub - For more information and troubleshooting for GRUB2 please refer to https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Grub2 - See !grub1 for releases before Karmic (9.10)
<Azelphur> kane1309: it's really really easy
<Azelphur> kane1309: just run the ubuntu installer, it's obvious
<Azelphur> boot from CD as you would usually, select the drive you wish to install to from the dropbown box, click install
<Azelphur> it'll set up grub and everything for you
<Azelphur> kane1309: just be sure to take a backup of your important data on windows in case something goes wrong :)
<kane1309> when i do the setup when it comes up with
<AlanBell> yeah, the installer normally sorts it all out, but if you have both already installed you would need to fix grub (or ask it to re-detect the operating systems)
<kane1309> erase windows or something else duel boot dosent come up
<AlanBell> don't you have an option to install Ubuntu alongside windows?
<Azelphur> kane1309: are you sure you have two physical hard drives and not two partitions
<kane1309> i have a c drive and d drive
<diddledan> >.<
<Azelphur> that doesn't mean you have two physical drives.
<kane1309> whats the difference between physical and partitions
<Azelphur> one is a partition, one is physical
<Azelphur> lol
<AlanBell> is it a laptop or a desktop?
<kane1309> laptop
<AlanBell> it will be one drive then
<Azelphur> probably partitioned then - you most likely don't have two hard drives
<Azelphur> unless you have a super high end laptop (alienware dell xps etc)
<kane1309> how would i check
<AlanBell> what laptop is it?
<kane1309> msi cr630
<AlanBell> most don't have a second hard drive bay, and you would know about it if you ordered it specially with two
<kane1309> its a alright laptop
<AlanBell> one drive :)
<kane1309> is there a way to check
<Azelphur> yea, one drive :)
<Azelphur> kane1309: yea, it's called "that laptop only has space for one drive"
<Azelphur> therefor, you only have one drive
<Azelphur> xD
<kane1309> then how would i install it on one drive because i tryed that to
<Azelphur> it's weird that the install alongside option doesn't show up - it should do
<kane1309> i tryied it about 5 times and it hasent came up
<AlanBell> Azelphur: maybe all the partitions are full
<Azelphur> AlanBell: maybe :)
<popey> evening all
<AlanBell> kane1309: so the current status is it has windows on it with a c and d drive, and no Ubuntu yet?
<Azelphur> kane1309: how much free drive space do you have?
<kane1309> i just rebooted it to factory settings
<AlanBell> ok, so it has a factory recovery partition too
<Azelphur> evening popey, I'm doing science https://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/screenshots/2012/June/IMG_20120615_221552.jpg
<kane1309> so theres nothing on it
<kane1309> yes
<kane1309> it dosent have cd
<AlanBell> Azelphur: nutter!
<diddledan> raid?
<kane1309> so why dosent it work  then ?
<popey> haha
<popey> what the hell are you up to?
<Azelphur> the bitcoin mining rigs need a new operating system
<Azelphur> :P
<AlanBell> kane1309: so when you put in the Ubuntu CD you can select "other" in the installation options, that should let you have a look at the partitions that are on the disk
<AlanBell> I suspect all 4 primary partitions are being used for things, which sucks a bit as it means extended partitions can't be created
<diddledan> is it bad that my workstation is messier?
<kane1309> what do u mean ? , im not very good
<popey> Azelphur: thats 8 USB sticks sharing one USB host?
<Azelphur> popey: yea, just flashing the new OS onto them
<AlanBell> kane1309: you're fine :) I am just looking for a good guide
<AlanBell> I did write one once
<kane1309> ok
<AlanBell> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UserDays/07102010/Partitioning%20101 is a class I did ages ago about partitions in general. Might be interesting, but not all that helpful.
<Azelphur> lmao, I have a /dev/sdn xD
<kane1309> ok thanks could u help me with the other thing to ?
<AlanBell> kane1309: are you using the laptop at the moment?
<kane1309> yes
<AlanBell> on windows?
<kane1309> i can go on another pc
<kane1309> yes
<kane1309> i hae windows 7
<kane1309> have
<AlanBell> anyone know how to do the equivalent to sudo fdisk -l /dev/sda on windows?
<kane1309> what ?
<AlanBell> kane1309: I want to see how exactly your disk is partitioned, but I don't know how to do that on Windows
<AlanBell> oh I think there is a thing called disk administrator that might be in the accessories menu
<kane1309> ohh
<dwatkins> yeah, 'disk management' will show the devices and partitions
<kane1309> disk clean or disk defragmentor
<AlanBell> not that
<kane1309> thats the only stuff with disk ill type it in search bar
<diddledan> the gui-way is to right-click on "my computer" and choose "manage"
<AlanBell> it looks like this -> http://cdn.blogsdna.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/windows-7-disk-manager.jpg
<kane1309> yh i can get that by doing what diddledan said
<kane1309> now what?
<AlanBell> what are the partitions you have in disk 0
<kane1309> 2
<Azelphur> how do I run a process in screen and not have the screen exit as soon as the process finishes?
<Azelphur> like screen echo hi, only without the exiting :P
<popey> screen
<popey> then echo hi
<AlanBell> kane1309: are they named? one might be "Windows 7" or something and one might be "recovery" or similar
<Azelphur> *shrug* long way
<popey> or dont use screen
<popey> why dont you want screen to exit?
<Azelphur> want to see the results of the dd
<Azelphur> haha
<popey> use nohup
<Azelphur> nohup?
<popey> yes, nohup
<kane1309> no there are os_install c where windows 7 is on and
<popey> instead of screen
<kane1309> disk d
 * Azelphur shrugs
<diddledan> Azelphur, nohup prevents the program from receiving any HUP signal (hangup)
<Azelphur> I see
<kane1309> alan if u want if u have skype ill show u my screen
<popey> man nohup
<AlanBell> !imagebin
<lubotu3> Screenshots can be made with the [PrtScr] button. Want to show us a screenshot of your problem? Upload an image to http://imagebin.org/?page=add and post a link to it.
<AlanBell> if you can put a screenshot on imagebin that would be ideal
<kane1309> ok
<Azelphur> http://ustream.tv/channel/Azelphur it's like a little christmas tree :D
<kane1309> alan
<dwatkins> merry festivities, Azelphur
<Azelphur> hehe
<dwatkins> What are the lights?
 * dwatkins assumes multiple hard disks
<kane1309> alanbell
<Azelphur> dwatkins: yea, 8 USB sticks
<Azelphur> upgrading the bitcoin miners lol
 * dwatkins imagines little dwarves inside an ATX case working away with their pickaxes
<kane1309> u there ?
<AlanBell> yup
<kane1309> heres the link to picture
<kane1309> http://imagebin.org/216560
<AlanBell> ok, 4 primary partitions used :(
<AlanBell> the 4 blocks at the bottom with blue tops
<kane1309> oh is that bad ?
<AlanBell> um, what is going on with D: I wonder
<AlanBell> so the D drive is where you want to put Ubuntu right?
<popey> install thats been wiped
<kane1309> yes
<AlanBell> ok, that needs to not be an ntfs partition
<popey> needs to not be a partition
<popey> but empty space
<kane1309> how do i change it
<kane1309> can i change it
<AlanBell> if you can right click the D partition and remove it that would be great
<popey> right click, delete it
<AlanBell> then it will be free space, then the installer will know where to go
<kane1309> will it break my laptop
<AlanBell> no
<AlanBell> presume there is nothing on d:
<kane1309> what click delete volume
<diddledan> only touch the d: volume tho
<diddledan> don't mess with the others
<kane1309> ok
<diddledan> the first three are needed for windows and the recovery system
<kane1309> ok i just deleteed it
<kane1309> no it says allocated memory
<AlanBell> you might have to apply the changes or something
<diddledan> I don't believe you need to - it should be atomic
<AlanBell> ok
<kane1309> should i do another pic ?
<AlanBell> yeah, that would be great
<AlanBell> just so we can check it is free space
<kane1309> http://imagebin.org/216565
<kane1309> there :)
<AlanBell> perfect
<diddledan> yup, that should be "good-to-go" now
<kane1309> how should i do it
<AlanBell> ok, give the installer another go, it should let you install Ubuntu in the free space alongside windows and should set up dual boot automatically
<kane1309> by cd usb or of desk top
<AlanBell> CD or USB is fine
<kane1309> when i go by cd it dosent come up with select drive
<AlanBell> I think it might do now
<kane1309> ok u guys have been so much help if it works ill come back and say thanks :)
<AlanBell> great, hope it works!
<diddledan> have fun ;-)
<kane1309> thanks
<kane1309> alanbell u are awesome
<AlanBell> did it work :)
<kane1309> yep put disk in came up right away and installed straight on d drive
<kane1309> u have helped me so much
<kane1309> could u help me one more time please
<AlanBell> depends on the question :)
<kane1309> i take it you run ubuntu
<kane1309> ?
<AlanBell> sure
<kane1309> no u got the bar on the left of the screen for apps and stuff
<AlanBell> that would be the launcher
<kane1309> how do you move it to the bottom
<AlanBell> you can't easily do that, it is on the left because screens are widescreens these days so horizontal space is less important than vertical space
<AlanBell> there is a not-reccommended hack that puts it on the bottom
<kane1309> fair enough
<AlanBell> http://www.webupd8.org/2011/10/how-to-move-unity-launcher-to-bottom-of.html it won't work well
<kane1309> is there a way to make the sensativity more different ?
<AlanBell> mouse sensitivity?
<AlanBell> hit the windows key and type "mouse" that will find the mouse settings in the dash
<AlanBell> there are speed and accelleration sliders in that
<kane1309> thanks
<kane1309> how do you make a application i forgot ?
<AlanBell> not sure I understand the question
<kane1309> ubuntu is way better than windows
<popey> AlanBell: http://www.webupd8.org/2012/06/unity-window-quicklists-switch-between.html
<AlanBell> gosh
<AlanBell> I should fix that package a bit shouldn't I
 * AlanBell adds his own PPA to his laptop
<Laney> I like how they advertise hacks instead of getting you to fix the bug
<AlanBell> yeah, wouldn't have hurt to poke me about it pre-publication
<AlanBell> I should have fixed it months ago really, but I don't actually use it
<AlanBell> since alt-tab was unbroken I don't need it
<ali1234> yeah it's a pity you can't report bugs on PPAs
<mattt> what's the bug ?
<AlanBell> s/UNITY/Unity/ in the .desktop file
 * AlanBell is entering a maze of twisty packaging passages
<AlanBell> I have no clue how to update my package
<ali1234> you could try to maintain it through quickly
<ali1234> it's python right?
<AlanBell> it is one python file
<ali1234> yeah you will have to jump through some hoops
<AlanBell> well two if you count the .desktop
<ali1234> like deleting half of the project that quickly makes for you
<Laney> edit the file
<AlanBell> Laney: yeah, done that, not sure how to repack it
<mattt> there needs to be a packaging as a service service
<mattt> packaging is hard
<ali1234> mattt: there is
<Laney> make a new tarball release
<AlanBell> I did apt-get source unity-window-quicklists then edited the .desktop file
<mattt> ali1234: dammit
<Laney> yourprojectname_1.0.1.orig.tar.gz
<ali1234> all you have to do is put up a commercial app (minimum price $2.99) and give canonical 20%
<Laney> uupdate ../yourprojectname_1.0.1.orig.tar.gz
<Laney> check debian/changelog
<Laney> debuild -S, dput
<mattt> ali1234: 20% of every sale?
<ali1234> yes
<mattt> friggen heck :)
<ali1234> which is still better than any other app store
<ali1234> everyone else charges 30%
<Laney> non-facetiously, there is a packaging service called 'pkgme'
<Laney> not sure how well it works though
<AlanBell> yeah, I was wondering if pkgme was the way forward
<AlanBell> so I update the debian changelog before making the tarball and rename the directory it is in with a new version number
<Laney> in this case you might consider making a 'native package' in which there is no distinction between the upstream code and packaging info
<Laney> so you avoid having to mess around with orig tarballs
<mattt> Laney: are you a packager?
<Laney> sure am
<mattt> what do you package ?
<hamitron> "something impressive"
<mattt> xorg
<Laney> a few things
<Laney> http://qa.debian.org/developer.php?login=laney&comaint=yes
<mattt> quite a lot :)
<Laney> keeps me out of trouble
<AlanBell> https://code.launchpad.net/unity-window-quicklists code is now in bzr and in a project
<AlanBell> I really don't get the relationship between bzr and packages
<AlanBell> should I check the debian directory into bzr?
<Laney>  http://paste.ubuntu.com/1043179/
<AlanBell> cool, what is that?
<Laney> I think native would make it easier for you to manage, and I also specified the dependencies that you need
<Laney> since if they are not installed the script will just crash
<AlanBell> yeah, do I use patch with that or something?
 * AlanBell has never used patch
<Laney> you can do
<ali1234> bzr apply?
<Laney> patch -p1 < blah.diff
<Laney> dunno what bzr apply does
<ali1234> nothing, it doesn't exist
<ali1234> git apply applies patches generated with git format-patch
<ali1234> which saves a lot of trouble trying to figure out what -p level to apply to the patch and etc
<ali1234> i guess if you want to do it the easy way with bzr you just need to make all your developers sign up for launchpad :(
<AlanBell> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1043184/
<AlanBell> I am in the directory that I did apt-get source in
<ali1234> look at the patch
<ali1234> diff -Nru unity-window-quicklists-1.0/debian/changelog unity-window-quicklists-1.0.1/debian/changelog
<ali1234> if you do -p1 it cuts of the first item in the path, leaving debian/changelog
<AlanBell> oh
<AlanBell> so I need to cd into the directory and run it
<ali1234> with p1 yes
<AlanBell> ok, that worked
<AlanBell> gpg: skipped "Iain Lane <iain@orangesquash.org.uk>": secret key not available
<AlanBell> when running debuild -S
<Laney> either change it to your name or supply -k0xYOURKEYID or put DEBSIGN_KEYID=yourkeyid in ~/.devscripts
<AlanBell> bother, I don't think I have that whole GPG thing set up on this laptop at all
<Laney> the source package needs to be signed before you can upload it :(
<AlanBell> ok, I will set that up tomorrow, I expect the GPG key stuff is on my old hard drive
<AlanBell> wish GPG keys and SSH keys were the same thing
<AlanBell> night all, and thanks for the help Laney
#ubuntu-uk 2012-06-16
<popey> morning
<christel> morning!
<popey>   TID  PRIO  USER     DISK READ  DISK WRITE  SWAPIN     IO>    COMMAND
<popey>  4505 be/4 alan     1272.21 K/s    0.00 B/s  0.00 % 96.96 % firefox
<popey> dear firefox, what on earth are you doing?
<DJones> If anybody has missed the freenode notices, if you have alternate nicks you haven't used for 150 days you need to /nick to them this morning or they will be lost in a database prune
<bigcalm> Morning peeps :)
<Laney> greetings
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<bigcalm> What's the recommended imap server these days?
<DJones> gmail :)
<brobostigon> google apps*
<dutchie> bigcalm: dovecot, if you want to host yourself
<bigcalm> dutchie: that's what I've used in the past. Wondered if popularity had changed or not
<dutchie> not afaik
 * DJones wonders if its patch saturday for Ubuntu, 200 updates.... I'm sure there were only about 15 showing on Thursday when the machine was last on
<dogmatic69> what is 'ubuntu 12.04 cloud'?
<mattt> czajkowski: see the ireland game today?
<zleap> its on later right
<zleap> england game was good yesterday,  will be interesting to see how rooney fits in to the team now we have kinda shown we can play well without him
<mattt> zleap: rugby :P
<mattt> but yeah, great win for england yesterday
<mattt> zleap: was also thinking the same thing about rooney ...
<zleap> he will need to work extra hard,  I am sure he can fit in,  it just depends on opponents
<mattt> i just want to see england play well
<zleap> yeah
<mattt> too much sports on right now, it's killing me
<mattt> videos from djangocon europe 2012: http://www.klewel.com/conferences/djangocon-2012/
<zleap> wait till the olympics
<zleap> will have loads on then,
<zleap> but that may leave more time for hacking on linux etc,   if we are bored with sport
<knightwise> xws
<knightwise> ah
<knightwise> i'm back :)
<knightwise> timed out there for a minute
<Azelphur> This mouse really needs to be a trackball :( http://bit.ly/M438Eh
<knightwise> would be pretty effective in a 1st person shooter :)
 * knightwise working on putting a machine together to run old games under wine
<knightwise> Half life and such :)
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: it needs 100 more buttons and be called a keyboard
<knightwise> haha :)
<Azelphur> hehe
<knightwise> i still can't get used to gaming with a paddle and stuff
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: you'd be surprised how many extra buttons I have
 * knightwise is an old dude who used to frag with a cherry keyboard
<knightwise> upside was : you could also slug your component to death with a keyboard like that
<Azelphur> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/Photos/2012/June/IMG_20120613_033112.jpg is my current setup :P
<knightwise> dude ! seriously ?
<Azelphur> yup
<knightwise> is that a mouse a trackball or both
<Azelphur> trackball
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: I want fewer buttons, not more
<MartijnVdS> also.. ewww backlight :)
<Azelphur> haha
<knightwise> logitech used to make pretty things
<Azelphur> how are they not pretty :o
<knightwise> hmm.. kinda klunky
<awilkins> Naah, the Cherry keyboards have good switches but the only keyboards you can beat someone to death with AND keep using afterwards are the Model Ms
<knightwise> looks like an IBM AS400 keyboard had a one night stand with a neonsign
 * awilkins looks at the photo and dry-heaves at all the blue lights
<Azelphur> knightwise: lol clunky :P, the keyboard itself runs embedded Linux
<Azelphur> to control all the hardware in the keyboard xD
<knightwise> allthough
<knightwise> i must say : i do miss the backlights on my mac keyboards
<knightwise> i have them on the notebooks but not on the stand alone keyboards
<Azelphur> I love the backlights, my entire system has ended up black / blue which is pretty cool
 * knightwise misses dad
<knightwise> i always feel like i'm visiting a prostitute when i'm working with backlight
<awilkins> I quite like the integrated overhead lamp on the Lenovos
 * knightwise misses THAT (dad too , but ..)
<MartijnVdS> knightwise: are those two statements connected? :P
<knightwise> THAT is sweet
<knightwise> MartijnVdS: nope , KW senior wasn't much of a gamer
<knightwise> allthoug i did teach him how to swap cd's in a cd burner once :)
<awilkins> I have a Dell at work with a backlit KB which seems a shame because the lights are never off
<knightwise> he was pretty good at that
<Azelphur> -.- I accidentally clicked print in thunderbird, clicked cancel and now it's spamming me with loading content for printing popups \o/
<awilkins> I have a Saitek X36
<awilkins> It makes me want one of their newer models... but then I think "What will I play on it?"
<awilkins> No Tie Fighter, no X-Wing, no Wing Commander
<awilkins> Realistic flight sims are OK, but I like space
<awilkins> The last one I enjoyed was I-War 2 I suppose
<awilkins> I liked flying the larger mass / more inertia ships in that
 * knightwise is holding his old copy of Xwing vs tfighter right now :)
<knightwise> along with doom3, Halflife 2 and return to castle wolfenstein
<awilkins> And it had a better dogfight mechanic than X-Wing - the engines disrupted the shields, so you had a reason for getting behind your target, rather than just having to be really good at deflection shooting like in most other space combat sims
<awilkins> If they mated EVE Online with I-War I'd be a happy bunny
<awilkins> Although that new Mojang thing, 0x10c sounds very good too
<awilkins> If a little like "Corewar in SPACE!!"
<awilkins> What with the 16-bit CPU emulator
<knightwise> there .. installing 12.04 on the older clunker. Its a p4 but its REALLY quiet .. ideal for the living room
<mgdm> bigcalm: sheesh, that's comedy
<knightwise> add some XBMC on it and Hoppa
<bigcalm> mgdm: isn't it just?
<mgdm> bigcalm: VTiger's that SugarCRM fork, ain't it?
<mgdm> bigcalm: remind me to never ever ever go near it? :)
<bigcalm> mgdm: no idea. I'm looking around for a membership thingy for a club my father is in to use
<mgdm> Hmmm. I'd suggest VTiger was overkill, then
<bigcalm> I guess so :)
<mgdm> quite apart from the fact that it doesn't work
<bigcalm> Any recommendations?
<bigcalm> It works if you set display_errors to off
<mgdm> that's like saying my car goes on fire, but it still works if I wear fireproof overalls
<bigcalm> :D
<bigcalm> Yes, I'm not defended it in the slightest
<bigcalm> ing not ed
<bigcalm> Anyway, the search continues
<mgdm> do one in Django? :)
<bigcalm> I need an off the shelf program as I don't have the time or will to maintain one
<bigcalm> I also don't know python :)
<bigcalm> About to look at CiviCRM. It appears to be a plugin for existing CMSs: http://civicrm.org/go/download
<bigcalm> And why django?
<mgdm> it's handy for making CRUD-type apps
<AlanBell> bigcalm: when you say a "membership thingy" could you be a bit more specific?
<AlanBell> is it for the clubs to sell memberships and track who is current, or somewhere for the members to do stuff?
<AlanBell> if it is the latter then elgg might possibly be a platform to look at
<bigcalm> AlanBell: the club currently has a MS Access database that 1 person has control over. They need a web interface to a central database to manage who the members are, their details and at some point payments
<bigcalm> AlanBell: did you see the screen shots I tweeted to mgdm?
<AlanBell> no
<AlanBell> http://doc.openerp.com/v6.0/vi/technical_guide/membership.html
<ali1234> heh, yes, an enterprise crm will be much easier for them to use
<AlanBell> openerp is a potential option, but it is a bit overweight
<bigcalm> AlanBell: https://twitter.com/bigcalm/status/214039064876294144
<AlanBell> not that there is anything wrong with being a little bit overweight you understand
<bigcalm> :D
 * bigcalm rests a beer on his tum
<AlanBell> err, that is broken bigcalm, it shouldn't do that
<bigcalm> AlanBell: default install
<bigcalm> :)
<mgdm> indeed :)
<bigcalm> From sauce
<bigcalm> source
<AlanBell> err, no that works just fine normally
 * bigcalm shrugs
<mgdm> I might try later
<mgdm> I run with error_reporting = -1, so I see everything it's doing wrong
 * mgdm -> food
<AlanBell> not saying it is great code or anything, but http://biz.libertus.co.uk/vtiger/ is a default install
<AlanBell> bigcalm: what is the output of echo PHP_SAPI;
<bigcalm> AlanBell: in PHP or bash?
<AlanBell> php
<bigcalm> cli
<bigcalm> I have to go for now. Back later :)
<AlanBell> hmm, ok that is correct
<christel> HELLO BIRTHDAY BOY
<AlanBell> o/ christel :)
<popey> Happy birthday AlanBell !
 * AlanBell is feeling quite elderly
<DJones> You can get arrested for doing that
<MartijnVdS> DJones: what, feeling up the elderly?
<DJones> MartijnVdS: Yep
<DJones> My wife has been done 3 times for that
 * AlanBell has birthday beer
<AlanBell> http://www.jenningsbrewery.co.uk/beers/beer.aspx?bid=7
<mattt> AlanBell: how old today?  :)
<AlanBell> 0x25
<AlanBell> it sounds good in hex
<mattt> AlanBell: ah, still young
<mattt> happy bday tho :_
<mattt> :P
<AlanBell> :)
<penguin42> AlanBell: Happy bday
<AlanBell> thanks
 * StevenR wishes it didn't take quite so long to *start* an ubuntu install
<StevenR> (we've spent several hours faffing with different isos, re-imaging usb sticks, etc.)
<MartijnVdS> StevenR: class 10 SD + fast reader + SSD
<Azelphur> StevenR: are you deploying lots of Ubuntu installs on similar machines?
<StevenR> Azelphur: no. I'm just trying to install *one*
<StevenR> MartijnVdS: eventually, we'll get installing on the SSDs
<StevenR> but it appears to be terribly hard to create a usb stick that both supports raid, and will boot.
<MartijnVdS> why would you do raid if you have btrfs?
<jacobw> because it sounds cooler?
<MartijnVdS> jacobw: meh
<StevenR> MartijnVdS: btrfs?
<MartijnVdS> btrfs!
<MartijnVdS> StevenR: ask popey about RAID and btrfs
<Azelphur> has anyone ever managed to set something up where the whole of / is loaded into ram?
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: long ago
<Azelphur> I want to do it :P
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: (the thing I did just never pivoted out of the initramfs)
<Azelphur> I have a 6.22GB Root and 12GB of RAM so, should be possible :D
<MartijnVdS> ah
<MartijnVdS> that'll be harder
<MartijnVdS> running a real distro on there :)
<Azelphur> yea, I actually wanna run a real distro :P
<Azelphur> ie, XUbuntu
<MartijnVdS> upgrades will be annoying
<Azelphur> why?
<penguin42> Azelphur: You might try something evil like a RAID1 between RAM and the disk and then take the disk out of the RAID
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: you scare us
<Azelphur> haha
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: Trust me, I can always find the most insane way of combining any two pieces of technology
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: XT + smart phone
<jacobw> the raid1 thing actually sounds like a good idea, if you don't remove the disk
<penguin42> XT?
<penguin42> jacobw: Yeh I think there might be better ways of just turning up the disk caching - I mean you shouldn't need to do that just to increase disc caching
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_PC_XT
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: Oh, that XT - hmm yes that should be doable - do you want the XT emulated on the smartphone or something more insane?
<Azelphur> I mean to get another 12GB RAM it's gonna cost me like Â£90, much less than a high performance SSD and much faster
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: My most recent madness is https://www.redhat.com/archives/linux-lvm/2012-April/msg00022.html
<jacobw> i'm not sure why he'd want to do this
<Azelphur> jacobw: because it's way faster/cooler than a SSD?
<penguin42> Azelphur: Yeh keep adding RAM, but you shouldn't need to do anything to persuade the kernel to use it to cache; you just need to do something to cause all the stuff to get read in early
<penguin42> Azelphur: Write latency will still suck when it actually wants to sync to the disk
<Azelphur> yea
<penguin42> Azelphur: The thing is for the same money a small SSD might give you a bigger perf improvement (depending what you're doing)
<Azelphur> really? Isn't ram astronomically faster than any SSD
 * jacobw thinks about access times
<penguin42> Azelphur: Ish - but it's rare you can get away without any writes at all
<Azelphur> penguin42: I mean, I just tried writing a file to /dev/shm
<Azelphur> and got 1.9GB/sec
<penguin42> Azelphur: Oh yeh, RAM is lovely and fast for write - but what about when you want to persist it - you know *save* something
<Azelphur> penguin42: yea so just do that in the background, it doesn't matter if it's slow :P
<Azelphur> penguin42: yea, writing to RAM I get 2.1GB/sec, writing to my SSD I get 245MB/sec  lol
<Azelphur> using dd to write 1GB pointless files xD
<penguin42> Azelphur: Right yeh it'll be a lot faster - actually even better for small writes
<penguin42> Azelphur: I'm not sure how you can cause writes to slowly trickle back; the RAID trick might work I think you might be able to setup priorities on the two devices in the RAID
<Azelphur> maybe
<Azelphur> or just continually rsync the ram to the disk
<jacobw> not good
<Azelphur> :<
<jacobw> some write caches are more bad than others
<jacobw> it probably wouldn't been a problem for amount of writes concerned
<Azelphur> maybe there's a way I can tell the kernel to just cache EVERYTHING xD
<Azelphur> lmfao, while googling I found this http://www.linuxatemyram.com/
<ali1234> "how you can cause writes to slowly trickle back" - uxe ext4 or any modrn FS
<ali1234> if you have 16GB you'll never do any reads from disk
<ali1234> except for the first one
<ali1234> adding an SSD will probably halve your boot time and shutdown time but that's it
<Azelphur> ali1234: but how do you make the kernel read it all in the first place? :P
<ali1234> ureadahead
<MartijnVdS> no U readahead
<penguin42> to read the whole thing? dd if=.dev/sda of=/dev/null bs=1M
<penguin42>  /
<Azelphur> haha
<Azelphur> I don't think dd will trigger caching
<penguin42> why?
<Azelphur> because I'd imagine it's file based
<MartijnVdS> it's not
<Azelphur> ah
<Azelphur> but yea, ureadahead sounds interesting
<penguin42> I'm not sure that makes any difference
<penguin42> ureadahead is a bit smarter and only reads bits that you're likely to use based on previous startup
<Azelphur> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BootToRAM I think this page may even be what I want :o
<ali1234> you want the moon on a stick
<Azelphur> yep :D
<Azelphur> ali1234: are you still mining on your 5870 btw?
<ali1234> yes
<Azelphur> what hashrate you getting? :)
<ali1234> no idea
<Azelphur> haha
<ali1234> i don't watch it
 * Azelphur shrugs
<brad__> hello
<penguin42> hi
<brad__> whats some good apps for ubuntu
<brad__> ?
<penguin42> well, what do you do?
<brobostigon> brad__: what kind? and for what purpose. but it is down to opinion anyway.
<penguin42> brad__: libreoffice is the office suite, there is the gimp image editor
<brad__> like apps for sound
<brobostigon> playback or recording?
<brad__> play like a graphic equlizer kind of thing
<brad__> turn bass up on my sub and stuff
<brobostigon> brad__: vlc is a good example.
<brad__> anything else ?
<Azelphur> http://www.cyberciti.biz/tips/linux-ramback-patch.html now this looks like what I want
<Azelphur> at least, that's the filesystem anyway
<StevenR> so. alternative iso won't boot from usb
<StevenR> works fine when we burnt it to CD :)
<dogmatic69> anyone seen the bug where you have the screen to lock after x time, but when it locks the unity bar is still visible along with the top bar of what ever app had focus?
<dogmatic69> Just noticed to day you see notifications too, got a gmail chat going (with system notifications enabled in chrome) and I could see that while the screen was locked
<penguin42> dogmatic69: That's pretty serious given that the notifications can include private chat text
<dogmatic69> I know
<dogmatic69> I mentioned it before (the unity bar showing) and nobody took notice
<ali1234> has anyone attempted to play lone survivor? it was updated the other day and now it at least loads up without crashing, but i can't figure out what to do and it seems very slow
<penguin42> dogmatic69: Why don't you file a bug, mark it as security (stating why) and give us the bug number
<dogmatic69> cool, I can try and take a photo of the bug in action.
 * dogmatic69 will be that guy... photo of the screen guy
 * bigcalm peeks in
<dogmatic69> sup bigcalm
<bigcalm> dogmatic69: sweet f a
<bigcalm> Tired
<dogmatic69> penguin42: would that be compiz?
<dogmatic69> bigcalm: cool. Im looking for NAS software :)
 * bigcalm replays Limbo for a bit
<penguin42> dogmatic69: Not sure - I assume you're under Unity - I'd just file it against unity
<penguin42> dogmatic69: With it locked can you interact with items on the toolbar
<dogmatic69> penguin42: 12.04 std
<dogmatic69> penguin42: found something 696085
<dogmatic69> bug 696085
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 696085 in unity (Ubuntu) "Unity shows on GDM lock" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/696085
<dogmatic69> but claiming its fixed
<penguin42> doesn't sound very fixed does it
<dogmatic69> nope
<penguin42> dogmatic69: Open a fresh one, and in the description say it sounds like that
<dogmatic69> ye
<dogmatic69> penguin42: I should mark it as security issue? it will be pvt then
<penguin42> dogmatic69: I'm on bugcontrol so I think I can see it - but can you just verify, does it allow you to interact with the controls on the bar, or just see it?
<dogmatic69> 1014154
<penguin42> bug 1014154
<lubotu3> Error: Launchpad bug 1014154 could not be found
<penguin42> bah - I wish it would at least give the link
<dogmatic69> penguin42: just see it
<dogmatic69> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/1014154
<penguin42> bah, I thought it would let me see that
<penguin42> it won't
<dogmatic69> as soon as you move the mouse / enter something on the kb it goes normal
<dogmatic69> but still, people transfer banking details / pw's etc via chat all the time
<penguin42> yeh
<dogmatic69> also, I was thinking
<dogmatic69> imagine emailing your SO about shit at work / wanting to resign, and you lock while in gmail and the subject line is 'my boss is a huge d*ck'
<dogmatic69> the subject line shows in the top bar of unity, which is viable
<penguin42> dogmatic69: You get similar things where people fail to turn off chat when they connect to a projector to give a presentation
<dogmatic69> yip
<dogmatic69> or they leave skype on :D
<penguin42> have seen a couple of great cases of that
<dogmatic69> happens at every conference
<dogmatic69> instantly speaker will have 400 chats running
<dogmatic69> penguin42: were you able to see it?
<penguin42> dogmatic69: No, wouldn't let me
<dogmatic69> :/
<ali1234> that's a well known bug anyway
<ali1234> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/compiz/+bug/771391
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 771391 in compiz (Ubuntu Natty) "Unity launcher gets visible while screensaver is active" [High,Fix released]
<ali1234> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-screensaver/+bug/886605
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 886605 in Compiz "Desktop, Launcher and menu bar still visible when screen locked" [High,Confirmed]
<penguin42> dogmatic69: Do you have the package that's listed in fix released in that (as of a couple of days ago)
<dogmatic69> which package is that?
<ali1234> penguin42: it wasn't fixed a couple of days ago. it was fixed a couple of days +1 year ago
<ali1234> and now it has broken again
<penguin42> ali1234: Oh yeh - I didn't notice the year
<dogmatic69> it has been like this since the day I installed 12.04
<ali1234> unity is unbelievably bad for information leaking anyway
<penguin42> dogmatic69: looking at the 886605 that ali1234 just posted it looks like there are a couple of guys working on it
<czajkowski> mattt: aye so close...
#ubuntu-uk 2012-06-17
<popey> Morning
<dwatkins> hiya
<Myrtti> mur
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
 * awilkins stabs Eclipse in the face
<awilkins> WE HATES IT *hsssss*
<awilkins> Is there a way to remove things from the Unity global menu blacklist?
<awilkins> Aha, cunning : http://askubuntu.com/questions/69815/can-i-make-eclipse-use-the-ubuntu-global-menu
<dogmatic69> some pretty interesting stats in the disk utility
<dogmatic69> power cycles: 6371
<dogmatic69> 2.9 years total on time
<jacobw> \o/ statistics
<MartijnVdS> everything is better with statistics
<dogmatic69> Was looking for drives to put in my nas, decided against that one
<jacobw> i'm trying to remember the name of the informatics guy who starting keeping statistics on everything quantifiable in his life after losing his father
<jacobw> his graphics are amazing
<jacobw> feltron.com
<MartijnVdS> jacobw: http://shop.oreilly.com/product/0636920000617.do + the books of Edward Tufte
<MartijnVdS> http://www.edwardtufte.com/tufte/books_vdqi
<MartijnVdS> http://www.edwardtufte.com/tufte/books_be
 * jacobw will guy
<jacobw> s/guy/buy
<MartijnVdS> uh oh
<MartijnVdS> don't blame me if you end up begging in the streets :P
<MartijnVdS> "But.. MartijnVdS told me to buy all those books!"
<jacobw> :)
<Lukan27> If I want to show alot of terminal data where do I put it? Can't remember the name
<MartijnVdS> Lukan27: less?
<MartijnVdS> Lukan27: command --with-long-output | less
<MartijnVdS> Lukan27: command --with-long-output > some_file
<MartijnVdS> Lukan27: oh wait, to show us?
<MartijnVdS> !pastebin | Lukan27
<lubotu3> Lukan27: For posting multi-line texts into the channel, please use http://paste.ubuntu.com | To post !screenshots use http://imagebin.org/?page=add | !pastebinit to paste directly from command line | Make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the channel topic.
<Lukan27> Nono, so other people on this chat can see it
<Lukan27> Pastebin, exactly!
<Lukan27> Thanks
<dogmatic69> lol
<dogmatic69> anyone watching tennis?
<brobostigon> no.
<dogmatic69> my gf is, its some final. The one guy just kicked some side line ref or something. GAME OVER
<dogmatic69> Crowd is not happy, paying for a final and watching for only an hour.
<brobostigon> understandable. yes.
<jacobw> bloop
 * lazarus_ wonders if there is a way to remove android(or dualbot) and put ubuntu or somthing like that on my tablet 
<penguin42> lazarus_: There are frigs - but generally the problem is that the kernels are special builds for each tablet and the graphics drivers are very random
<penguin42> lazarus_: Most userspace stuff would work
 * lazarus_ i just dont like android all that much 
<brobostigon> pickup the webos source, and play, :)
<jacobw> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1yJ2yWvGnkI
<jacobw> lololol
<lazarus_> i have an acer icoina tab a200
<brobostigon> ouch, the google+ app, is twice as big as the FB one. 14MB, and 29MB.
<brobostigon> whats the opinion of tweetdeck compared to seesmic on android. ?
<mgdm> brobostigon: never used seesmic, but I liked Tweetdeck
<brobostigon> mgdm: ok, thank you.
<mgdm> I see SSDs are now approaching 50p/gig (at least a quick glance on amazon suggests so)
<popey> good news
<mgdm> indeed, I might well be tempted to enliven this machine a bit
<mgdm> Not right now, though, just bought tickets for Ross Noble :-)
<popey> oh nice
<MartijnVdS> hmm
<MartijnVdS> mgdm: no-brand SSD or proper ones?
<mgdm> MartijnVdS: Crucial and Samsung on Amazon both seemed to be approximately the same price
<mgdm> I was being highly unscientific about it
<MartijnVdS> mgdm: http://tweakers.net/pricewatch/cat/674/solid-state-drives.html#filter:q1bKL0pJLXLLTM1JUbJSKi5ITc5My0xOLMnMz1PSgUgG5xeVAOUSi5PhIkBlnkD1JmYmtQA :)
<mgdm> got one that gives me the info in real money? :)
<MartijnVdS> mgdm: ask google -- 0.63 EUR in GBP
<mgdm> I was kidding :)
<mgdm> I'll have another look in a couple of months
<MartijnVdS> Though "Silicon Power"
<mgdm> don't need one right now
<MartijnVdS> Who trusts their data to that
<MartijnVdS> whoa, a 512GB from Crucial that's cheapish
<penguin42> how cheapish?
<MartijnVdS> 361 european money units
<MartijnVdS> that's about 290 GBP or 131.5kg
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: Are those the european money units before the results of the greek vote?
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: current ones
<penguin42> :-)
<penguin42> actually, it's not bad - it's almost 2 GB per GBP
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: Are they SATA-2 or 3?
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: CT512M4SSD1 Slim
<MartijnVdS> SATA-600
<popey> ooooo 512GB
<popey> 7mm!
<popey> tempting
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: Interesting, the UK crucial site is listing the CT512M4SSD2
<penguin42> 272 UK+VAT - so 327 inc
<MartijnVdS> hmm
<MartijnVdS> the thing I linked to is a big price-comparison site
<MartijnVdS> for computer parts
<MartijnVdS> so the price I listed is the cheapest it could find for me
<penguin42> the 256GB tempts me more - I don't use 512GB
<MartijnVdS> I have lots of music as FLAC
<MartijnVdS> and a bunch of RAW photos
 * penguin42 has 13GB of music, on a USB stick
<mgdm> if I use the 'flexible method' of creating a USB installer from the wiki, it fails
<mgdm> is unetbootin worth a go?
<penguin42> mgdm: These days you should just be able to dd the iso image onto the USB stick
<mgdm> (it fails saying it cannot find various files from the CD image)
<mgdm> Hmm, didn't think of that
<penguin42> mgdm: I think it started working with 11.10; certainly works for 12.04
<mgdm> cool
<mgdm> I'll give that a blast; thanks
<directhex> kingston are doing 128gb ssds for Â£65 at the mo
<directhex> if anyone cares
<directhex> http://www.scan.co.uk/shops/kingston/hyperx3k
<popey> /dev/sda1            216G  160G   45G  79% /
<popey> I'd keep all my photos on my laptop if I had a 512GB one
<ali1234> /dev/sda1        80G   30G   47G  39% /
<AlanBell> /dev/sda1       216G  125G   80G  61% /
<ali1234> how does a SSD increase your FPS?
<directhex> ali1234: it reduces stutter, which can help in some benchmarks
<ali1234> what is stutter? like loading textures?
<MartijnVdS> loading anything of disk too slowly
<MartijnVdS> off*
<MartijnVdS> models, textures, ...
<mgdm> right, well, that works
<directhex> ali1234: yeah, or other stuff like MartijnVdS says
<directhex> ali1234: it's very uncommon for a modern engine to load 100% of potentially used resources to RAM, games are designed for use on low-ram consoles so spool resources as needed from fixed disk. and spinning rust can cause stutter in many cases
<MartijnVdS> hmm
<MartijnVdS> what woudl happen if I put an SSD in my PS3
<ali1234> i suppose that's a problem if your game is several dvds
<directhex> MartijnVdS: depends on the game. there are benchmarks out there
<directhex> MartijnVdS: load times can drop from 0-50% if memory serves
<ali1234> directhex: have you played lone survivor? it's terrible. 2d game with like 256x160 graphics, and it needs a 3GHz processor to run full speed
<MartijnVdS> noice
<mgdm> does tasksel not exist any more?
<mgdm> (at least by default)
<directhex> ali1234: no, i didn't try that one yet
<directhex> ali1234: if it's flash, then, well, flash.
<directhex> ali1234: nothing makes my wife's pc groan like farmville
<ali1234> can't those mono guys rewrite the flash runtime or something, like thewy did with android?
<ali1234> actually there was that flash to html5 thing the other day, i should check that out
<mgdm> heh
<mgdm> Err, where's the font size control gone?
<ali1234> gnome-tweak-tool
<mgdm> "tool to adjust advanced configuration settings for GNOME"
<mgdm> so font sizes are now 'advanced'
<ali1234> yes
<directhex> mgdm: yes!
<mgdm> that's bonkers
<ali1234> didn't you get the memo?
<ali1234> the user is always wrong
<directhex> why adjust them, when they're right by default?
<ali1234> you should be thankful anyone even bothered to make gnome-tweak-tool, clearly advanced users should be using dconf directly
<ali1234> because advanced users love futzing around on the command line
 * AlanBell wonders what exactly gnome-tweak-tool tweaks
<mgdm> these ones are wrong
<mgdm> also installing gnome-tweak-tool wants to bring in GNOME shell
<directhex> mgdm: no, your eyes are wrong. gnome is right!
 * directhex wibbles
<AlanBell> wow, that actually works really well
<ali1234> it's basically the old "appearance" dialog that was removed
<AlanBell> oh I like text scaling factor 0.5
<mgdm> there's a 'font size' thing in the Universal Access bit
<mgdm> however, I've installed MyUnity anyway
<ali1234> that text scaling slider is horribly, horribly broken
<AlanBell> the accessibility tool text sizing is nowhere near as wide in scope as the gnome-tweak-tool slider
<ali1234> because changing the font size resizes in real time, the slider moves under you
<AlanBell> yeah, that is a bit daft
<ali1234> so if you just hold down the mouse it goes into a loop of resizing
<mgdm> AlanBell: it was close enough, for the size, but wouldn't let me change the monospace font
<ali1234> then you let go and get a random size
<ali1234> i will report that actually
<mgdm> I might just reinstall cinammon :-)
<ali1234> no, install gnome-fallback
<ali1234> it's much better than cinammon
<ali1234> you can put panels on any monitor
<ali1234> you can move stuff around on them
<ali1234> you can put them anywhere you want
<mgdm> ooo
<ali1234> from now on i'm audioswapping all my bug videos with "entry of the gladiators"
<ali1234> starting with this one
<ali1234> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-tweak-tool/+bug/1014403
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 1014403 in gnome-tweak-tool (Ubuntu) "gnome-tweak-tool font scaling slider is extremely difficult to use." [Undecided,New]
<popey> i hear nothing
<ali1234> audio swap takes a while to kick in apparently
<popey> ah
<popey> i would expect the response you get is "file it upstream"
<ali1234> yeah
<ali1234> i will do that also
<popey> cool
<ali1234> anyone know where upstream for this is?
<popey> gnome bugzilla
<ali1234> i like to use launchpad as a staging point for my bugs, because it is so much better than the junk everyone else uses
<AlanBell> if someone were to attempt to add such a slider into some bit of unity, where should it go and how should it not fail like that?
<ali1234> you can make it not fail by not updating the font size until the user releases the mouse button
<ali1234> which is certainly possible with Qt
<popey> or not make it a slider
<ali1234> i dunno about Gtk though
<popey> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/browse.cgi?product=gnome-control-center
<ali1234> (that setting in Qt works for all widgets btw)
<ali1234> so also spinners etc, can be configured to update in real time, or not until the user stops editing them
<ali1234> for example, text entry where user types a search query
<kane_> hello
<ali1234> you know what's annoying? text search where you type "s" and then wait 5 minutes while it lists everything beginning with "s", before you are able to type the next letter of your query
<kane_> does anyone no how to get gconf editor
<AlanBell> kane_: dconf-editor is the new hotness
<ali1234> sudo apt-get install gconf-editor
<ali1234> popey: tweak tool is specifically not part of control center, no?
<ali1234> it has it's own product
<kane_> thanks
<AlanBell> kane_: some things are tweaked with dconf-editor now, which is in the dconf-tools package
<kane_> yh i just had to change the minimize close and maximize button layout
<kane_> is there a way to move the top bar to the bottom ?
<ali1234> no
<AlanBell> it is probably going to be easier for you to go with the flow and learn to enjoy it at the top
<ali1234> no, you should install gnome-fallback and use that instead, you can do whatever you want then
<ali1234> including move the panels
<AlanBell> or that
<kane_> sorry im used to windows im trying lol
<kane_> is there a way to change the sensativity of the left bar
<AlanBell> cool, unity is a bit different, you do get used to it
<AlanBell> sensitivity in what way?
<kane_> like it takes longer to come up
<kane_> because it comes up when i try and close a internet
<AlanBell> argh, don't close the internet /o\
<AlanBell> :)
<kane_> what
<ali1234> internet's closed
<AlanBell> there is a setting called launcher reveal pressure and one called laucher reveal edge responsiveness
<AlanBell> in compiz-config-settingsmanager
<ali1234> i think that can be set from the normal control panel now
<AlanBell> I don't have my launcher hiding so I don't know how well they work
<mgdm> Ooooh
<mgdm> this is the first Linux release to support middle button scroll with the trackpoint properly out of the box
<ali1234> i don't have a launcher at all :)
<mgdm> though given that I use Macs most of the time these days it feels backwards
<AlanBell> ali1234: you can set it to autohide or not from the standard control panel, but tweaking the sensitivity isn't in that
<kane_> im confused
<ali1234> join the club
<ahayzen> Hi, I'm using the mini.iso to install via a network install .... i have just selected linux-generic as the kernel and it is asking me for the drivers to include in the initrd should it be 'generic - include all available drivers' or 'targeted - only include drivers needed for this system'.... are there any disadvantages of using 'targeted' ?
<AlanBell> kane_: which bit?
<kane_> every bit :S
<ali1234> ahayzen: yes. if you install new hardware you won't have drivers for it
<ahayzen> so which should i select?
<ali1234> well if you targeted
<ali1234> you can always rebuild it later
<ahayzen> i had to use the mini.iso as I am installing on a system without pae
<ahayzen> so what doesn't it include?
<ali1234> any drivers for any hardware not currntly plugged in to your computer
<AlanBell> kane_: so, the normal systems settings tool shows a bunch of things that can be tweaked, but not all of the little detailed ones, just high level stuff
<ali1234> note that initrd only really needs the drivers for devices you intend to boot from
<ahayzen> ali1234: ok... so what does the standard Ubuntu install do?
<kane_> thanks
<ali1234> no idea
<ali1234> prbably generic
<ahayzen> how much bigger is generic than targeted?
<ali1234> again i have no idea
<AlanBell> kane_: there is a more detailed tool (several of them actually) to tweak different settings, some of which are a bit hidden for a good reason (like you can mess up your system)
<ahayzen> lol
<ali1234> seriously, install gnome-fallback, have a nice working system and stop worrying about it
<AlanBell> ahayzen: I would go for generic unless you are trying to do something really specific like a thin client with hardly any space
<ahayzen> ali1234: Ok thanks for your advice, i think i'm go for generic
<ahayzen> alanbell: Thanks :)
<AlanBell> ali1234: E: Unable to locate package gnome-fallback
<ali1234> it's called gnome-session-fallback
<ali1234> be sure to use it in 2D mode though, because compiz 0.9 is really broken
<ali1234> you can emable compositing in metacity though, that works fine
<AlanBell> ali1234: gnome-session-fallback seems to work fine in quantal with compiz in virtualbox
<ali1234> are you sure compiz is really running and it didn't just fall back to metacity?
<ali1234> also are you sure it's really working fine? show a screenshot :)
<AlanBell> will do in a sec
<AlanBell> just installing ccsm to turn on more bling
<AlanBell> yay, it zooms the panels as they are not drawn with that nux kookiness
<mgdm> hmm, Chrome doesn't show up in the launcher, nor in alt-tab
<AlanBell> http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/screenshots/Screenshot%20from%202012-06-17%2021:57:29.png
<ali1234> yeah, that's better than it does in precise
<ali1234> i notice the workspace switcher is messed up. does it work?
<ali1234> i mean the widget in the bottom right
<AlanBell> works fine
<ali1234> can you make it a 1 row 4 column layout?
<AlanBell> it isn't messed up
<AlanBell> heh, thought my VM had frozen up, but I was clicking on my screenshot
<ali1234> lol
<ali1234> that's the trouble with giving every window zero pixel borders
<AlanBell> yeah, 4x1 works fine, the workspace switcher looks like it used to do
 * AlanBell tries cube
<ali1234> and when you click, it works?
<ali1234> in precise if you do this, change the switcher to 4x1, and then click anther workspace, it takes you to a weird n-dimensional desktop that is like a parallel universe
<AlanBell> yeah, clicking worked
<AlanBell> and now clicking rotates the cube
<ali1234> your panels disappear and to get them back you have to go to screen 1 of the parallel universe desktop and click on where they should be, then they come back
<ali1234> this is due to gnome and unity-compiz having different ideas about virtual desktops, and the widget tries to switch between the two modes, but doesn't quite manage it
<AlanBell> I am struggling to find fault with this
<ali1234> yeah
<ali1234> seems like all the bugs have been fixed
<ali1234> i can't really think of any others except the overall slowness of compiz 0.9 compared to 0.8
<ali1234> but that's hard to measure in a VM
<AlanBell> most of that is because the mouse position polling is set to 40ms
<AlanBell> set it to 1 and it all goes silky smooth
<ali1234> no it isn't
<ali1234> that makes no difference to eg. fullscreen games
<ali1234> with compiz 0.9 everything is capped at 30fps on my system
<AlanBell> oh, I don't play games
<AlanBell> I might go try get my patch to the mouse polling accepted
<AlanBell> bug 930783
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 930783 in compiz-plugins-main (Ubuntu) "mouse poll is jerky at the default setting of 40ms" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/930783
<mgdm> is there a Twitter client or Linux worth talking about, or am I going back to tweetdeck?
<TheFred> hello
<kane_> hi
<TheFred> Hi kane_
<AlanBell> mgdm: polly works fine for me
<ali1234> mgdm: isn't that what gwibber does?
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] My First Fathers Day - http://www.jonobacon.org/2012/06/17/my-first-fathers-day/
<mgdm> ali1234: gwibber is a terrible joke
<ali1234> but... it's the default program!
<TheFred> just wondering if anyone knows how to turn a .py file that needs htop into a .deb file?
<ali1234> that means it is the best one
<ali1234> TheFred: why does it need htop?
<ali1234> i hope you're not screenscraping...
<TheFred> it uses popen to fetch system details
<TheFred> nope - its not screensraping
<ali1234> yes it is :(
<TheFred> really?
<ali1234> you're parsing the output of htop
<ali1234> just get the information directly
<TheFred> i though sreen sraping was html realted?
<ali1234> same thing
<TheFred> aha
<ali1234> and same problems
<ali1234> output of htop changes, your program breaks
<TheFred> no problems with it - it works really well
<ali1234> what information are you looking for?
<ali1234> there's almost certainly a more compatible way to get it
<TheFred> only thing is now i want to package it into a .deb file
<ali1234> packaging is a black art that few understand
<TheFred> well then, i guess i want to learn a black art :)
 * TheFred goes back to google search
<AlanBell> TheFred: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide
<AlanBell> http://developer.ubuntu.com/packaging/html/ even
<TheFred> thanks AlanBell, thats what im re-reading :)
<ali1234> AlanBell: did that guide help you at all?
<AlanBell> ali1234: well it is kind of like the total perspective vortex
<ali1234> it's extremely bzr-centric too
<TheFred> erm, well, yes and no.... its the control file section that has me slightly confused: the correct syntax for dependancies in particular
<AlanBell> if you read that, and the Debian manual it really gives you a sense of how small and insignificant the sum total of your knowledge really is
<ali1234> heh
<ali1234> maybe i'm arrogant but it just made me think "this is pointlessly complicated"
<mgdm> that was my experience, too; on the other hand, I'm awfully lazy
<TheFred> AlanBell, yup,plus im honing my android-app skills
<mgdm> Android apps are child's play compared to debian packaging :P
<AlanBell> yeah, you kind of need to know about 20 years of evolution of packaging systems to know which one to use on which package
<TheFred> AlanBell, Im going for the 'try it on my system - and it it works then ask others to test it' approach
<TheFred> namely family an friends
<ali1234> if i have a standard "make; make install" package, why isn't there a tool that can do it all for me?
<AlanBell> I think there is
<TheFred> the short answer is that there is
<ali1234> similarly, if i have a "python setup.py install" based source, why isn't there a tool that can do it automatically?
<AlanBell> pkgme should do that, amongst others
<ali1234> note: this tool should not rely on the source being in any particular VCS
<ali1234> there's simply no reason for that
<AlanBell> what I am struggling with is a package with a single executable python script in it
<TheFred> heh +1 AlanBell
<ali1234> well, doing a setup.py for that shoud be trivial
<AlanBell> laney helped sort it out in some mysterious way, I must get my GPG keys sorted so I can upload it
<ali1234> the stupid part is i can explain to a 100% total noob how to download and install my software from source, but i can't comprehend how to make a package
<TheFred> AlanBell, ye, it took a while to go through the tutorials and get my GPG and SSH keys uploaded
<ali1234> why is packaging so much harder than installing from source?
<TheFred> because you have to put together the program + install instructins to make it easy to install
<ali1234> as i just said, i can do that
<ali1234> that isn't the hard part of packaging
<TheFred> oh
<TheFred> what is, for you?
<ali1234> making the package
<TheFred> i dont understand, you can make the control file, but have fails with the actual packaging method>?
<ali1234> writing the control file, yes, that's the hard part
<TheFred> aha, that i do understand :)
<ali1234> also writing the rules file and the changelog file
<ali1234> and then putting them into a directory
<ali1234> and then figuring out where to put the source so that it actually works
<ali1234> and then how to turn all that into a .deb
<TheFred> yup, its try and try again until its nailed into our memory :)
<ali1234> and then once you've done that, how to update it
<TheFred> thats a good point, 1 not considered yet
<TheFred> updates that it...
<TheFred> at this point i think that the version number dictates which package is seen as newer, so as long as the user gets the 0.2.0 .deb (newest) then thats all there is to it
<TheFred> I expect i have a lot more to digest :(
 * AlanBell runs sudo virtualbox
<ali1234> another problem is packages have a load of fields that i don't understand what i'm supposed to put in them
<TheFred> thats a great tip AlanBell
<AlanBell> TheFred: not generally adviseable! I am booting my old hard disk attached in a USB enclosure as the root drive of a VM
<TheFred> whoa - take care there!
<AlanBell> there is probably a way to let a non-root user have that much access to the device, but this works
<AlanBell> I had encrypted home directory on it so I can only get stuff off it by booting it
<TheFred> for a moment i thought you meant to imply that i use a vm as a sterile environment to work on packaging
<TheFred> aha
<ali1234> "debian/compat This file should contain the number 8. This is a magic number. Do not put any other number in there. "
<ali1234> whaaaaaaaaaaaaaa?
<AlanBell> TheFred: no (but that is a reasonable idea) I am trying to get back my GPG keys
<TheFred> ali1234, where did you read that? I've not seen that yet... its not some april fools thing is it?
<ali1234> http://wiki.debian.org/IntroDebianPackaging
<TheFred> AlanBell, the old forgotten passphrase thing eh?
<TheFred> ali1234, wow - so it does, but thats the first time i've read that when searching about this
<TheFred> ali1234, ah - thats ONLY for debhelper tho
<AlanBell> this is the hard thing, do magic thing "foo" for easy fully automated packaging tool "bar"
<AlanBell> and there are so many packaging tools
<ali1234> yeah
<ali1234> and just look at quickly
<ali1234> it will make a package for you in one step
<AlanBell> but luckily we now have pkgme as one universal packaging tool that covers everyones use cases
<AlanBell> http://xkcd.com/927/
<ali1234> unfortunately you have to use bzr, and your program has to have a main window with a file menu and a help screen and etc
<TheFred> hmmm, according to Google there are no pkgme tutorials....
<TheFred> With the recent push of Quickly, i'd expect there to be more info about using quickly to build packages NOT build using Glade...
<ali1234> quickly uses templates
<ali1234> in theory it can make any type of package
<ali1234> however in practice making templates is even more complicated than making debs
<ali1234> eg http://www.didrocks.fr/index.php/post/Build-your-application-quickly-with-Quickly%3a-Inside-Quickly-part-6
<ali1234> if you can understand any of that you're smarter than i am
<TheFred> ali1234, thanks for the url, i'll take a look..
<ali1234> it might help if the existing templates weren't such a mess of all different stuff
<TheFred> ali1234, yea, its a translation from french, so its not exactly fluid in its explanation
<ali1234> that's not the problem at all
<ali1234> the problem is that "how to make quickly templates" is "you write this file, and you define commands in it to do whatever you want"
<ali1234> ok great. what commands? what should they do?
<ali1234> who knows?
<ali1234> effectively according to that explanation, quickly is as technically useful as a bash script, except it's written in python (or not, you can use anything you want lol)
<ali1234> so, what exactly is the point of it again?
<AlanBell> just wait until you see juju
<AlanBell> anyhow, night all o/
<ali1234> i've seen it
<TheFred> juju?
<TheFred> gnite AlanBell
<bigcalm> Good evening peeps :)
<mgdm> 'ello bigcalm
<ali1234> juju is like quickly but for servers
<mgdm> bigcalm: tell me what I should blog about?
<bigcalm> mgdm: whisky
<mgdm> I was considering Whisky Web, actually
<mgdm> but I've nothing to say about that that others haven't already said
<ali1234> it's really simple as long as what you want to do happens to be exactly the same as the person who wrote the juju charm (which is a fancy way of saying "install script")
<mgdm> 'juju charm'
<mgdm> already I want nothing to do with it
<ali1234> juju even has the same kind of "lock-in to the developer's favourite platform" as quickly does
<mgdm> I have an app that I'd quite like to write in Python, but it'd need to run on Linux and Mac OS X, and have a not-too-ugly GUI
<mgdm> I wonder if such a thing is attainable
<ali1234> since it insists on managing all your virtual machines, you *have* t run it against AWS or an expensive dedicated server
<popey> or lxc
<ali1234> it's completely useless if you have an unmanaged VPS
<ali1234> lxc requires bare metal/dedicated server
<popey> i prototype juju charms on my laptop using lxc
<shauno> mgdm: depending on your definition of ugly; eg Calibre is primarily python, and runs on win/lin/osx
<popey> so yeah, bare metal
<ali1234> a laptop running ubuntu is bare metal
<ali1234> specifically it's bare metal with ubuntu installed on it, as opposed to some virtual machine with ubuntu installed on it
<mgdm> shauno: I find Calibre ugly but I think that's largely due to the choices of the developer :-) Do you know what toolkit it uses?
<shauno> no idea, sorry
<ali1234> mgdm: it's qt4
<mgdm> no worries, I'll play about
<mgdm> ali1234: ah ha
<ali1234> python-qt4 to be specific
<TheFred> mgdm, i worked through the Quickly tutorials, and found that Glade can have great results
<ali1234> don't even get me started on glade
<ali1234> it can have great results if you remember to save every 5 minutes because of the constant crashing
<mgdm> I've used Glade on occasion, with PyGTK and PHP-GTK (!)
 * TheFred keeps quite about glade
<ali1234> mgdm: Qt is the best toolkit for cross platform by a long long way
<ali1234> and i agree that calibre is ugly. it isn't Qt's fault though
<ali1234> Qt can do anything from perfect OS-styled to completely dynamic mobile touch interfaces, without even trying
<ali1234> what Qt lacks is a HIG
<shauno> I wasn't trying to pick a contentious example :)  just the only one I've used on all three, that I happened to know was python
<ali1234> but that's because it's desktop-agnostic
<ali1234> plenty of stuff is written in Qt... most times you won't even know
<ali1234> you really can make your app look however you want
<ali1234> every widget supports full CSS styling, if you want that
<ali1234> or you can just ignore it and get it perfectly integrated with the OS look and feel
<ali1234> packaging python-qt apps for windows is a bit tricky though
<ali1234> but then again, not more tricky that for debian
<TheFred> Im wondering if quickly can be used to package a simple python program...
<ali1234> someone who understands how to package a simple python program would have to make a template
<ali1234> and if i knew how to do that, i wouldn't need quickly to do it for me... so yeah
<ali1234> i think it has a command-line template, maybe you can use that
<ali1234> called ubuntu-cli
<TheFred> well, looking the diretory structure of a non-built quickly program reveals a lot
<ali1234> try this
<ali1234> quickly create ubuntu-cli myapp
<ali1234> then copy your python file over myapp/bin/myapp
<TheFred> ah  ok, one moment
<ali1234> then that's it :)
<TheFred> WOW
<ali1234> oh and delete that myapp/ folder :)
<TheFred> I think thats gold :)
<ali1234> or put your source in there, and run it from the other bit
<ali1234> yeah it looks good
<TheFred> why delete the myapp/ directory?
<ali1234> well you don't need it if you really only need one file
<TheFred> hmmm, i see
<ali1234> probably better to use it as intended, if you can figure that out
<ali1234> then quickly package
<TheFred> so, does the original myapp.py file need to be deleted/changed in any way?
<TheFred> or
<ali1234> depends
<TheFred> say my python program is call mytest.py
<ali1234> it really depends what you need
<TheFred> and i create a project call mytest.py
<TheFred> forget it ... i'll test it and see :)
<ali1234> another option is drop your python source over myapp/myapp/__init__.py
<TheFred> what does that do?
<TheFred> doh - yes of course
<ali1234> it's where myapp imports myapp.main() from
<ali1234> (yeah not confusing at all right?)
<TheFred> __init__.py calls myapp.py .... so if ireplace __init__.py with mytest.py (the single simply python program) then it *should* go ok
<TheFred> only way to know is to try
 * TheFred goes to see if it works
<ali1234> yeah
<TheFred> aha - i just appended my simple python program to the main() method of __init__.py and *it works* :->
<ali1234> yeah it would
<ali1234> AlanBell: this would all probably work for you too ^
<ali1234> i love how "quickly save" doesn't ask you for a commit message
<ali1234> yet more proof bzr users don't actually care about history
<TheFred> ali1234, i think a commit message can be added via launchpad/etc.... i may be wrong tho
<ali1234> you can probably just bzr commit -a (or whatever the syntax is)
<ali1234> but really, if you're happy with bzr you're probably not planning to ever look at the commit log anyway
<TheFred> bzr is high on tommorows To Learn list - if the Tide and weather mean i cant go rowing that is :)
<TheFred> ali1234, just a word of warning, if you use Gedit, make sure any ~ temp files are deleted before running quickly package!
<ali1234> i always disable gedit backups
<ali1234> no reason for them if you use a CVS
<ali1234> of course git isn't stupid enough to commit them in the first place
<ali1234> but they are still annoying
<TheFred> Im testing the .deb file on another system,just to be sure..
<ali1234> good idea
<TheFred> hmm, just had software center warn that the package was of bad quality...
<TheFred> whoohoo, yup although it complained it run ok, no need for the old 'python mytest.py', all i had to do way enter 'myapp' into terminal and pop, there it is :)
<ali1234> well i can tell you exactly how to fix that
<TheFred> im all ears :)
<ali1234> put !#/usr/bin/env python on first line of your python script and then chmod a+x it
<TheFred> aha
<ali1234> and it doesn't need to be .py either
<TheFred> ah, i thought you meant fixing the warning from the software center about it being a bad package...
<ali1234> that's cos you didn't sign it
<ali1234> you need to set up gpg keys
<ali1234> that's a whole other mess
<ali1234> i notice that quickly uses #!/usr/bin/python
<ali1234> that's wrong
<TheFred> ah yes, I *do* have GPG keys ready for signing it :), i will try that now
<TheFred> damit
<TheFred> i've found that signing a cli program with quickly seems different to the Glade projects
<ali1234> report a bug. it shouldn't be
<TheFred> let me be clear: quickly sign ends with 'ERROR: No sign command found in template ubuntu-cli.'
<TheFred> I culd have sworn that 'quickly sign myapp' worked on the tutorial
 * TheFred revisits quickly tutorial :(
<ali1234> template: ubuntu-cli
<ali1234> it's a bug, the template is missing that command
<ali1234> this is why overly generic templating systems are a terrible terrible idea
<ali1234> actually, is that really the right command?
<TheFred> I'll see if i can work around it, and report a bug if there's not one already
<ali1234> nice, quickly does the gpg stuff for you
<ali1234> that's something to be happy about
<ali1234> i need some more entropy though. lalala
<TheFred> doh.... its
<TheFred> 'quickly license'
<ali1234> uh... so it makes a key and tells you to upload it. fair enough. but it doesn't tell me where it created the key
<TheFred> for me it was in my home directory, its in passwords and keys
<ali1234> are you sure that signs it?
<ali1234> it looks like it just prompts you to set up the iicense
<TheFred> yea, thats what im thinking right now too
<ali1234> we should go annoy the people in #quickly by having that conversation there instead of here
<TheFred> I changed the Authors file,but just got a fail with no error or reason
<TheFred> yoou mean there's #quickly.... lemmeatem' :)
#ubuntu-uk 2013-06-10
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: because it's so much FUN!
<knightwise> morning
<popey> Morning
<SuperMatt> yes.
<SuperMatt> it is
<SuperMatt> how's Jodeee?
<popey> heh
<Laney> meow
<diplo> Morning all
<bigcalm> It's a good morning from me
<JamesTait> Good morning all, happy Iced Tea Day! :-D
<BigRedS_> Iced Tea day? really?
<bigcalm> I have a feeling that every day is a day of something
<bigcalm> Can we go back to doughnut day?
<JamesTait> bigcalm, you might be right.
<bigcalm> BigRedS_: you have a little something trailing after you
<JamesTait> bigcalm, this is my mission - to bring these lesser-known days of celebration to light.
<JamesTait> BigRedS_, it's on the internet, it must be true. ;)
<bigcalm> JamesTait: as far as missions in life go, not a horrible one
<JamesTait> bigcalm, not entirely pointless, either.  Some people take life far too seriously, if just one of these odd celebrations makes just one person smile, it's worth it.
<bigcalm> JamesTait: do continue :)
<JamesTait> bigcalm, why thank you, sir, I do believe I will. ;)
<christel> yeah, more doughnut days would be good \o/
 * bigcalm waves some nuts at christel
<bigcalm> Now you have to find the dough
<christel> i'm not particularly fond of nuts... i was thinking more krispy kreme tbf :P
<BigRedS> JamesTait: you can't cite yourself!
<BigRedS> "See, it's in the ubuntu-uk IRC logs, *must* be true"
<bigcalm> Heh
<JamesTait> :-P
<bigcalm> Anybody experience the unity dash and tool tips appearing underneath existing windows?
<popey> maybe
<popey> not recently
<diplo> I've never tried one of these Kripsy Kremes, are they that nice ?
<directhex> you can get them at tesco
<christel> diplo: if you get them soon after they've been delivered or fresh from one of the places they make them "in-house" then they are quite tasty
<christel> (but only get one, otherwise you'll get sick)
<directhex> i buy a dozen at a time
<diplo> :D
<diplo> My kids would probably love them then!
<mungbean> tropicana have a competition on their bottles and it seems to requier facebook :-|
<popey> dont they all?
<directhex> that's normal these days
<popey> either that or they want your mobile phone number
<mungbean> ah, on the redirect page that appears for 0.2s you can click "change version"
<diplo> I don't enter anything with a facebook only type thing :)
<mungbean> yep
<mungbean> but there must be a non fb version of most of those things
<mungbean> they just make it hard to find
<diplo> Well tbh, I don't really enter any comps :)
<mungbean> and you never win :P
<mungbean> amazon albums are always cheap unless you're me
<diplo> I really must buy some new music soon myself
<BigRedS> I just stream it now
<bigcalm> Hazar for rebooting the workstation from my phone because the machine becomes unusable
<diplo> yeah debating that as well, but I've always liked having the music with me, storage is so cheap now
 * popey hugs spotify
<diplo> Reason I guess I've not sold myself on it yet is things like riding and having music playing
<mungbean> how much is spotify?
<bigcalm> Â£9.99 per month
<mungbean> oh.
<mungbean> i spend far less than that on music
<bigcalm> But that's for an account with no adverts and you can then use the mobile apps
<bigcalm> You can have a free account, but it's somewhat limited and full of adverts
<bigcalm> I originally moved to a paid account so I could use the android app
<bigcalm> It's worth it as a service I think
<mungbean> i still use my mp3 player for music
<mungbean> since i never have to charge it
<mungbean> its magical
<diplo> I use my phone for everything, to the point my mum now has my nano
<directhex> i use my phone for music
<diplo> heh,talking about Spotify and I receive an email from them
<diplo> NSA!!!!!!!
<christel> haha
<directhex> i just wish xbox music wasn't so bad compared to zune
<diplo> Still using the windows phone directhex ?
<directhex> yeah
<diplo> Did they address any of the issues I remember you blogging about ages ago ?
<diplo> I've still never seen/used a new windows phone :)
<mungbean> neither chrome or firefox work with youtube :(
<mungbean> chrome too fast, ff 1/10 speed
<directhex> diplo, some of them
<diplo> Well at least that's something
<directhex> diplo, e.g. os updates can be done without a windows pc
<directhex> mtp-z is gone, can just use normal MTP from linux, or a microsd
<mungbean> oh, had to kill pulseaudio, weird
<diplo> Blimey, standardisation?! good move from them I think
<mungbean> http://askubuntu.com/a/169472 weird indeed
<diplo> Tried all the options ?
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<mungbean> cold in here
<mungbean> might run a few flash videos to warm up my CPU
<mungbean> stupid PPI spam calls :(
<brobostigon> :(
<mungbean> evil scumbags
 * diplo still not had one yet, colleague has at least 1-2 a week
<mungbean> annoys me that nothing is done about it
<diplo> Have you complained to the correct people ?
<mungbean> waht can you do? i'm on the TPS and it's an unknown number
<diplo> Get details about what company and complain to the relevant Of-*
<diplo> Or, let them do there spiel and do what a guy did that I watched on telly and told them if they contacted him again he'd invoice them for his time
<diplo> And when they did it again he invocied with 30 day payment terms
<diplo> And when they didn't pay, he took them to the small claims court :)
<diplo> And won!
<diplo> He recorded all the conversations though
<christel> haha fantastic
<mungbean> i'd rather they just not call tbh
<mungbean> they are automated messages
<diplo> Block unknown number on your phone ?
<mungbean> actually one was from 01618505451
<brobostigon> mornings christel
<mungbean> http://whocallsme.com/Phone-Number.aspx/01618505451/38
<mungbean> 47 pages of people, and they are still operating
<diplo> Look it up and phone them every 5 mins all day everyday
<diplo> :)
<diplo> Automate it with asterixs
<mungbean> been doing it 3 years, shows that ofcom are toothless
<brobostigon> or ofcom arent doing there job properly, or companies are willing to flout the law for the possible gain it could cause for them.
<christel> morning brobostigon :)
<brobostigon> morning christel :)
<bigcalm> davmor2: Haven't seen anything on the ML about it, but do you know if this week's LUG is at the Pie Factory or not?
<davmor2> bigcalm: check your inbox again muppet boy
<christel> mmmpie.
<bigcalm> davmor2: just as I hit enter, I see the ML update
<davmor2> bigcalm: :D
<bigcalm> Thunderbird wants a kicking for being so slow to update
<davmor2> bigcalm: to be honest I only got it just before your comment :)
<bigcalm> Ah
<^aDaM> morn :) bigcalm  and davmor2
<^aDaM> Hope all is well x
<mungbean> does quidco allow you to retrospectively claim cashback on purchases?
<mungbean> (i suspect not)
<czajkowski> mungbean: you cna try adn file a claim
<mungbean> i didn't click the referral link though :(
<mungbean> or have an account :P
<mungbean> was a v recent purchase, but suspect big fat NO
<davmor2> ^aDaM: Good thanks
<davmor2> mungbean: I'm guessing NO!!!!!!!
<mungbean> yeah lol
<mungbean> realised i coulda got 7% on a reasonable sized purchase
<czajkowski> mungbean: then no
<czajkowski> sometimes even clicking on the referral link can not always work and you need to file a claim
<czajkowski> but only if you're an account member
 * czajkowski just got 110 quid back from quidco 
<czajkowski> not bad
<mungbean> i'm a chump for not looking into it before now
<diplo> I _always_ forget to use QuidCo
<diplo> One of my friends in the last 3 years has got about 2.5k or so back from them now
<mungbean> wow
<czajkowski> diplo: I mostly do also, but that's about 2 years of using it on and off
<mungbean> must spend a lot
<czajkowski> mungbean: it can depend some deals ae very good
<czajkowski> very handy for flights!
<diplo> yeah, he does _everything_ through it
<diplo> But.. he also orders stuff for friends and family as well
<mgdm> I signed up to that but I never did much with it
<diplo> Amazon have now been added though for certain deals so worth me using more now
<czajkowski> diplo: ohhh didnt know that
<czajkowski> I do a lot of amazon shopping
<czajkowski> espeically at christmas time!
<Myrtti> pie
<dwatkins> mmm
<bigcalm> Want it to be Wednesday evening right now!
<brobostigon> interesting, the bbc have finally made an android bbc weather app.
<SuperMatt> nice
<brobostigon> it seems to be, though, an almost perfect copy of the bbc weather webpages.
<SuperMatt> well I'm installing it now
<bigcalm> Does it have a widget?
<brobostigon> bigcalm: yes.
 * bigcalm takes a look
<SuperMatt> when I saw that it had a widget, I was sold
<brobostigon> why ?
<SuperMatt> because good free weather apps are like gold dust
<brobostigon> i wouldnt call it good yet, adequate might be better.
<SuperMatt> sure sure, but I'm sure it'll get better
<SuperMatt> and if it doesn't have adds: bonus
<brobostigon> fair point,
<BigRedS> I quite like the Met Office one
<brobostigon> me also.
<brobostigon> however both need landscape modes, for tablets, which they dont.
<DJones> I just use the website for weather forecasts to be honest, doesn't matter how good an app is, its only as good as the weather itself :)
<^aDaM> I dont beleav the waether.
<^aDaM> beleave*
<DJones> Probably 75% of weather apps are a 'damp squib'
<DJones> Just like british weather
<davmor2> DJones: you're in England man the weather is always bad
<^aDaM> hahahah I live in the countrysides its worse here then the city.
<^aDaM> Wind is bad :/
<DJones> davmor2: I'd probably say the weather is mostly average in cheshire rather than bad, we're protected from most bad weather, welsh hills to the south, penines to the east, so we rarely get the bad weather, generally, its better than average, but not quite as warm as the south coast
<davmor2> ^aDaM: I counter your claim with the fact that dyson got his idea for the funnel vacuum from our carpark. It blows a a gale force wind on it when the leaves on the trees are only just moving :)
<DJones> Also forgot, protected from the Atlantic by Ireland
 * popey discovered android has a widget for doing shazam-like song detection
<davmor2> DJones: I'm in wolverhampton today is grey and likely to rain
<davmor2> popey: shazam has a widget for doing shazam song detection :P
<mungbean> how is the new google keybaord ?
<DJones> davmor2: Looking out the window, its a bit hazy, but no signifcant cloud
<popey> this is faster than shazam
<DJones> mungbean: I like it, I've dropped Swype in favour of it
<davmor2> popey: oh nice
<mungbean> DJones: thats enough for me
<mungbean> hope it works on old android
<DJones> mungbean: Don't think it does, pretty sure it requires 2.3 or above (may even need ICS)
<mungbean> argh
<DJones> Double check it though, I could be wrong
<mungbean> This item is not compatible with your device.
<mungbean> stick with touchpal
<mungbean> although i don't like it
<DJones> In byobu does the little question mark in a box next to the uptime mean reboot required (on a 12.04 box)
<BigRedS> w
<SuperMatt> poooosibly
<mungbean> if a domain expires in july and i suspect it may not be renewed, what's the best and cheapest steps?
<diplo> To pre-empt getting it ?
<BigRedS> there are companies who will 'snipe' the domain when it comes back on the market
<BigRedS> which is ~4months after the expiry
<BigRedS> which would be best if you reckon anyone else might want it
<diplo> Depending who you're with I believe 123 do it, never tried it though
<awilkins> DJones, it's a white "go around" kind of arrow on a blue background? Reboot.
<DJones> awilkins: Thanks, its so tiny I can't really tell, but sounds about right, blue background did say reboot/restart & I get a restart needed message when I log in anyway, so was assuming that was what it meant
<awilkins> OMG one of my devs just said he didn't see how automated testing would be a benefit to a web project
 * awilkins clears a percussive cranial therapy zone on his desk
<mungbean> i want to get the domain when it comes available
<mungbean> do companies tend to buy up every domain that lapses?
<awilkins> Given they tend to buy up every domain that you do a WHOIS for, I think so, yes
 * awilkins was bitten by those scum at GoDaddy
<awilkins> Searched a domain at them, went to think about it.... next day, it's bought by "Domains by proxy LLC" who are owned by GoDaddy
<mungbean> whois on the command line?
<awilkins> mungbean, Dunno, but I've been suspicious of it ever since
<awilkins> Definitely don't use their web UI to look for domains
<diplo> awilkins: I always go for something I sorta want and get the option for the one I want to buy from the choices :)
<awilkins> Unless you're pretty clear you want to buy it there and then
<diplo> I honestly don't know how what awilkins says works, but I do think they're doing something :)
<awilkins> I had something specific in mind - a two-word domain name
<awilkins> Two dictionary word domains are like gold (if the one-worders are platinum now)
<awilkins> Wonder who has domains.com
<awilkins> Looks like a set of right dodgy gits
<awilkins> If you want one that's registered, I think the procedure is to pay a sniper to get it for you
<mungbean> meh
<mungbean> i don't want it badly enough
<mungbean> sucks though
<awilkins> I have the .uk and .net variants of my preferred domain now
<mungbean> tbh i never had a domain name, i should stop collecting stuff i don't need
<awilkins> Ok, not the .net
<awilkins> Just the .me.uk, .co.uk and .eu ones
<mungbean> eu is a ripoff
<awilkins> I think I got it on special offer
<awilkins> It was a cheap ripoff
<mungbean> 1yr cheap, >1 yr ripoff
<mungbean> 123-reg backorder a domain for 49.99
<mungbean> ch-ching
<awilkins> I was just so pleased that the domain registrar I was using were obviously not total assholes that I was happy to give them a "tip"
<diplo> heard a few people recommend Ghandi, going to move one of my domains there and have a play
<mungbean> not keen on their motto
<awilkins> Ghandi is who I used
<awilkins> GANDI
<awilkins> I like their motto
<awilkins> Trademarked as well
<awilkins> Heheheheh
<diplo> Will move one in the next week or so before move of office, so I can play with some setups on work line :)
<Arthur_D> hi, just listened to the latest podcast, great work as always
<mungbean> ERROR: RTMP_ReadPacket, failed to read RTMP packet header
<mungbean> get_iplayer can't get 219
<mungbean> anyone else with this prob?
<diplo> Don't use it, well haven't for a long time, if you don't get any help I can install
<mungbean> there's a few people in here hopefully who use it
<popey> mungbean: saw someone else report that on the get_iplayer mailing list
<mungbean> all progs?
<popey> they only reported one
<mungbean> just upgrading all files
<popey> http://lists.infradead.org/pipermail/get_iplayer/2013-June/004245.html
<BigRedS> Ah, I had that the other day and assumed it was my net connection beiung rubbish
<mungbean> cheers guys, i will try what's proposed on https://github.com/dinkypumpkin/get_iplayer/wiki/swfurl
<mungbean> get-iplayer is broke without the workaround then
<mungbean> shoudn't have dist-upgaded
<mungbean> get_iplayer --prefs-add --rtmp-tv-opts="--swfVfy=http://www.bbc.co.uk/emp/releases/iplayer/revisions/617463_618125_4/617463_618125_4_emp.swf"
<mungbean> works , cheers chaps
<mungbean> why didn't anyone tell me there's a 4od-dl
<dwatkins> ooh, neat
<dwatkins> does it remove the ads, too? that's naughty...
<mungbean> about to find out
<mungbean> written for mac
<mungbean> may work on linux
<dwatkins> I'd test it from here, but I'd probably get told off...
<dwatkins> AtomicParsley is a great name
<mungbean> Unfortunately at the moment the script can't handle programs where the AIS data has a streamUri containing a url with a f4m extension
<mungbean> download consistently fails at 19%
<mungbean> 10% now
<mungbean> typical 4od
<mungbean> even fails on teh CLI
<diplo> Isn't channel4 hosted on google now adays along with Channel 5 ?
 * diplo not looked in a long time
<mgdm> C5 and C5 have a lot of stuff on YouTube, but that's not their primary location
<mungbean> can't download 4od stuff off youtube
<mungbean> wrong country etc
<mungbean> youtube
<mungbean> seems to be trailers and not prgorammes
<mungbean> 4od worked on 10th go.
<mungbean> i'm on a superduper connectino
<mungbean> 4od sucks QED
<daftykins> hey all, i'm trying to boot ye olde 10.04.2 from a flash drive on this samsung laptop
<daftykins> it gets quite far but then i just get lots of EXT2-fs errors spammed followed by an almost full screen-height of console rows full of 'mountall: Connection is closed' :S
<daftykins> any ideas?
<daftykins> maybe it's just too old for this hardware
<daftykins> not to worry, just got around it
<mungbean> write speed to usb stick : 2MB/s
<mungbean> it is not quicker to copy stuff to usb to take home :P
<daftykins> haha
<daftykins> get a better one ;)
<mungbean> i usually use what's in my pocket at any given time
<daftykins> upgrade your pocket :>
<naderp> ck oberluz
<mungbean> wow. apt-get install hal seems to fix 4od
<czajkowski> Laney: popey https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/7541845248/h6B7E04F8/
<daftykins> free fable 3 on xbox 360 due to some pricing glitch
<mungbean> you have to be an Xbox Live Gold member to take advantage
<daftykins> no biggy
<mungbean> and you need an xbox
<daftykins> mungbean please don't say silly things, i'm sharing in case anyone has one
<popey> heh
<Laney> czajkowski: :3
<popey> mungbean: it also fixes google play, it's a problem with drm in flash
<mungbean> ah yes, couldn't remember where i'd seen it before
<mungbean> allows google movies
<mungbean> the 4od thing has had me for a year though
<mungbean> mrs wanted to know why series 2 of something worked, and series 1 did not
<DGJones> I thought after Britains (not) got talent, Here comes honey boo boo  etc, I didn't think tv could get any worse, but http://www.channel4.com/programmes/confessions-of-an-alien-abductee/episode-guide/series-1/episode-1 looks like a case of broadcasting from the asylum
<MartijnVdS> DJones: those people need to be seen too
<MartijnVdS> DJones: if only as a warning
<clayts>  /j #bluez-users
<daftykins> bouncey bouncey
<cptcl> sorry :) haha
<daftykins> ^_^
<popey> hmm, can someone do me a favour and install "predict" and then run it
<popey> set your lat/long (if you don't know it, use this to find out http://itouchmap.com/latlong.html)
<popey> then press P to predict a satellite and press X for "ISS". It doesn't show predictions
<popey> it does for other satellites like hubble
<shauno> I wonder if it needs to be provided new keppler elements?  iirc the IIS has a more volatile orbit than most
<popey> hmm
<shauno> it's a stab in the dark, but that'd be my first guess if it seems to be working otherise
<popey> aha, there's a mini-script in the man page for updating
<popey> that did it!
<popey> thanks
<shauno> most satellites don't change often, because predictable is their day job, and fuel is finite.  the IIS is an oddball because it actually gets refueled, and has to worry more about babying a squishy payload than predictability
<Laney> gah
<Laney> did anyone watch the fall just now?
<NET||abuse> hrmph,, being upset by chrome flash, youtube videos are all chipmunk speed
<NET||abuse> and so are video streams
<NET||abuse> playback of mp4 file on my local webserver directly in browser is chipmunking it, but vlc on the same url is fine
<NET||abuse> why is this messed up now?
<popey> kill and restart pulseaudio
<NET||abuse> ubuntu 12.10 chrome 27.0.1453.110
<popey> e.g. pulseaudio -k
<NET||abuse> popey: but this is going on all week across reboots
<popey> tgry it?
<popey> -g
<NET||abuse> well, ok it worked
<NET||abuse> weird
<NET||abuse> but it'll happen again on reboot,
<NET||abuse> i can fix now,, thanks for that, but what a pain
<NET||abuse> any idea if this will be solved?
<popey> if someone files it as a bug, sure
<daftykins> (ppst, popey means you! :D )
<daftykins> omw how many tabs have i got open O_O
<daftykins> nice one Google, released a new 'Google Apps Sync for Microsoft Outlook' program to support Outlook 2013, which has broken the program for older Office versions forcing you to resync Â¬_Â¬
<bigcalm> I really really really (really) do not miss having to use Windows
<daftykins> that's not really a factor of Windows
<bigcalm> But using Outlook is
<daftykins> there are plenty of things that break in Ubuntu :D
<daftykins> this is a client of mine anywho
 * bigcalm chuckles at Untappd
<bigcalm> "Woah! Youâve had at least five beers that the Untappd founders have had. Thatâs tough since we like a wide variety of beers. Obviously youâre just trying to be cool like us!"
<daftykins> ?
<bigcalm> http://t.co/5SptsWAx8m
<Laney> that sounds like an amusing app
 * Laney gets
<bigcalm> It's like Foursquare for ale
<daftykins> ugh Newcy
<daftykins> :D
<Laney> can I add beers I've had in the past?
<bigcalm> Not tried, maybe
<Laney> can't stop me I guess :P
<bigcalm> :P
<daftykins> anyone a Google Reader user that's found a decent new version with an Android app and browser use that keep sync'd?
<Laney> been using feedly, seems good enough
<bigcalm> Laney: you're drinking your beers quickly ;)
 * Laney chugs
<daftykins> Laney: i don't like the android app :(
<Laney> why's that
<daftykins> well for example i want to see read ones listed too
<daftykins> just looking how to do that now but i'm not sure it can be done 0o
<Laney> I don't understand what that means :(
<Laney> 'see read ones'?
<daftykins> i want read articles visible
<daftykins> yeah my bad
<Laney> oh
 * Laney tries achiang's one
<Laney> readraven.com
<ormiret> daftykins: menu thing next to search and then show all articles (or something like that)
<ormiret> (on my tablet - menu thing might be the actual meu button if you have one...)
 * dwatkins rejoices at finally being able to install mumble after two upgrades and a complete rebuild of sources.list
<daftykins> ormiret: does that give you a different colour/style to the 'read' articles?
<ormiret> yes; grey titles for red, black for new
<ormiret> or read rather than red
<daftykins> ooh yeah, it's really subtle
<daftykins> ormiret: thanks for that :) playing with the chrome 'app' now too
<^2fC> daftykins: had fun on Doom 3 I have to say it feels so much better for FPS and Ping then Windows.
<ormiret> only thing still annoying me about feedly is turning all pictures into a link to pinterest (really annoying in things like flikr feeds where the picture should be a link to the flikr page).
<popey> hmmmmm
<daftykins> ^2fC: loading is better off EXT4 than NTFS i think, but i would imagine latency is down to bad drivers in Windows or a placebo effect :)
<^2fC> daftykins: I just got drivers before instead of those you said :)
<^2fC> Did it via Terminal :D
<daftykins> what drivers?
<^2fC> 319.23 ones
<daftykins> oh i see
<^2fC> Latest for Ubuntu 13.04
<^2fC> :)
<daftykins> mmm, not really a good idea that
<^2fC> Huh whys that :o
<^2fC> Should I be using those Drivers you said to use?
<daftykins> next time you get a kernel update it might break the drivers if it didn't put a proper dkms one on
<^2fC> Not sure I followed this link..
<^2fC> http://linuxg.net/nvidia-319-23-has-been-released-how-to-install-nvidia-319-23-drivers-on-linux/
<^2fC> I downloaded a repo :o
<^2fC> \o/
<daftykins> oh ok
<daftykins> that wasn't really necessary, but ah well, you got the same end result
<^2fC> Hope it don't brake :( otherwise I am blaiming you Mr. daftykins! ;)
<daftykins> then i shall laugh at you, since i didn't tell you to do that at all!
<^2fC> AlanBell: \o/ any Chicken left? :o
<^2fC> daftykins: I know, I was only joking :)
<AlanBell> chickens are sleeping http://hencam.libertus.co.uk/
<^2fC> \o/
<zleap> AlanBell, any news on the conference pack  please >
<zleap> ?
<daftykins> :D
<AlanBell> erm, good question zleap, I will try and find out
<zleap> thanks
<zleap> :)
<^2fC> so they are AlanBell :)
<zleap> we now hve 2 programming groups in paignton and if you count what they do at south devon college that would make 3
<popey> yay, i now have 365 contacts on my ubuntu phone
<daftykins> one for every day of the year
<popey> hmm, some I don't need
<popey> need to clear up my google contacts
<popey> then resync
<popey> heh, a picture of AlanBell on my phone â»
<diplo> See I keep all my contacts, but I only display 'My Contacts'
<daftykins> what more could you want? ;)
<diplo> So I only have the people i contact a lot in there, about 20 ppl
 * bigcalm finally got around to adding a photo to his wedding website
 * popey hmms https://launchpadlibrarian.net/142122419/device-2013-06-10-232109.png
<popey> "23 hours call"
<daftykins> heh
<daftykins> that's even longer than when i helped someone call Vodafone support one fateful Sunday
<popey> it was a 32 second call
 * popey filed a bug
<daftykins> ugh, got this laptop to look at that has a 3rd party charger
<daftykins> have to sort of wiggle the connector in and hold it at an angle to make it charge
<popey> i had a laptop dropped off here today which had one of those fake police notices on boot up, demanding money
<ahayzen> popey, are u reporting a bug for the text 'Orange Customer Services' going over the icon on top right as well?
<popey> yeah
<popey> doing that right now
<daftykins> popey: haha nice
<daftykins> which windows?
<ahayzen> :)
<bigcalm> Windows what?
<daftykins> the Windows said infected system was running, naturally
<popey> 7
<daftykins> ouch
<popey> removed it easily enough but they paniced
<popey> ahayzen: https://bugs.launchpad.net/phone-app/+bug/1189662
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 1189662 in phone-app "Contact name overlaps icons " [Undecided,New]
<daftykins> yeah, always the way
<ahayzen> popey, awesome :)
<ahayzen> gotta make it `pixel perfect` :)
<popey> totes
<ahayzen> 'A shorter more convenient form of the word: totally. This word is most commonly used by teenage girls.'
<popey> :D
<ahayzen> teenage girls?
<ahayzen> lol
<popey> I was being ironic ã
<daftykins> we've got to take the language back before it's... oh well :(
 * popey heads to bedlington. 
<popey> taking phone to play with
<daftykins> nn sir o/
<popey> will take notepad to remind myself of the bugs to file
<daftykins> ooh BBC Weather android app
<ahayzen> ttfn popey ;)
 * popey tickles andypiper and runs off to bed
<andypiper> ello @popey
<andypiper> coming to you live from San Francisco
<daftykins> WWDC?
<andypiper> nope, but I walked past the line this morning
<andypiper> I work on Cloud Foundry at Pivotal, we're on the same block
<andypiper> (cf runs on Ubuntu)
<daftykins> my friend is the OS X developer for 'SourceTree' and was queueing for 3hrs XD
<andypiper> it looked very insane this morning
<daftykins> lotsa fanbois in one place
<diplo> andypiper: Looks an interesting project
<andypiper> i think so :-) but I would say that
<diplo> heh
<diplo> Sure I'd heard of it but not read up on it
<andypiper> happy to answer questions
<diplo> http://status.cloudfoundry.com/ ( Status page is broke ) link at bottom of the page just FYI if you want to let someone know :)
<andypiper> arg
<diplo> Cheers, will have a play tomorrow/wednesday i think
<andypiper> awkwards. That's a tumblr page.
<andypiper> will go prod the folks
<andypiper> diplo: just learned that the status page location moved to http://status.run.pivotal.io/ but we need to fix a redirect up
#ubuntu-uk 2013-06-11
<MooDoo> morning all
<popey> morning
<brobostigon> morning
<Myrtti> myh
<popey> Morning
<MooDoo> morning popey
<brobostigon> just so everyone knows, if i seem in a bad mood, my gf broke up with me this morning, by sms.
<popey> bummer
<brobostigon> very, yes.
 * brobostigon curses the existence of the mobile phone and the sms.
<SuperMatt> oh hey, gotta congratulate canonical on all the features they added to iOS7
<MooDoo> brobostigon: hugs :(
<brobostigon> MooDoo: hugs, thank you, :(
<mungbean> hang on , is xbox Â£600 or not?
 * mungbean confused
<apacheuk> hello
<dwatkins> I thought the XBone was $599, which probably translates as it being Â£599 in the UK eventually.
<dwatkins> if you compare other currently available products, we often pay about as many pounds as you'd pay dollars in the US for stuff.
<popey> ps4 is 350GBP
<bigcalm> What's wrong with a bit of string and a cat? Hours of fun
<popey> haha
<apacheuk_> cat6 or cat5
<mungbean> i saw xbox pricing is Â£429 though dwatkins
<mungbean> maybe thats a hobbled version
<mungbean> just to set a baseline rpice
<ikonia> popey: has that price now been confirmed on the PS4 ?
<popey> it was in their announcement
<dwatkins> whatever MS do, they can't take back the fact they tried to force always-on DRM upon the world, I'm pretty sure the XBone will sell very poorly compared to the PS4.
<ikonia> I didn't think it had been confirmed
<ikonia> compared to Microsoft's numbers today that seems good
<popey> it was on a slide in their presentation
<mungbean> http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2013/jun/10/microsoft-xbox-one-price
<ikonia> dwatkins: unless a killer must have game comes out, the xbox is of little interst to me
<ikonia> they appear to have built a multi-media-home-hum+games box
<ikonia> rather than a games console
<mungbean> if anything i'm more likely to get ouya type device, or steambox
<popey> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-22852723
<ikonia> and at Â£430 that's a lot when I just want to play games
<popey> price in the story and on a slide
<ikonia> thank you popey
<ikonia> I hadn't seen that
<mungbean> i can't believe the console worshippers at these events
<ikonia> worshippers ?
<mungbean> wooping with joy, fawning and showing adoration
<mungbean> did you watch the bbc clip?
<ikonia> no, the flash movie doesn't work on my linux laptop
<awilkins> Yeah, the only appeal of the XBone is if someone cracks it and it turns out to be a cheap PC for the money
<mungbean> by design ikonia ?
<awilkins> But even then, is it really worth it for all the hassle and having no warranty, etc
<awilkins> Already have an i7 PC with 8GB of RAM
<ikonia> mungbean: well, I've not installed flash plugin, so yes
<mungbean> or chrome
<ikonia> awilkins: the appeal of the xboxone is if someone forgets it's supposed to be a self facilitating media hub and remembers it's a games console, and develops some fantastic games
<awilkins> ikonia, They could do that for a real PC and cut out the middleman. Basically the same APIs anyway.
<awilkins> Unless they fathom some astounding use for Kinect
<awilkins> Kinect was rather more interesting in the world of utility computing than games
<dwatkins> ikonia: agreed, I might get a PS4, but definitely not an XBone
<ikonia> awilkins: a console is a nice playing experience though and not everyone uses PC's these days
<awilkins> ikonia, I think that's basically where Steam are going with their Big Picture project
<awilkins> ikonia, A PC with a UI optimized for tellies
<ikonia> dwatkins: both interest me, however the XBone (only just realised that clever play on words) needs some killer games to open my wallet
<awilkins> Which is really what an XBox is anyway
<JamesTait> Good morning all, happy Corn on the Cob Day! :-)
<directhex> you're making these up
<directhex> ikonia, awilkins, i'm going to copypasta my console thoughts from elsewhere, because laziness.
<directhex> <directhex> i'm going to wait & see, personally - i want to see a gaming experience which couldn't run on a 360 with the model detail turned down. something genuinely "next gen"
<directhex> <directhex> the current generation, for me, was defined by Dead Rising, the first game which was impossible on ps2/xbox/gamecube
<dwatkins> ikonia: for me, the significantly higher price, lack of reselling games and always-on Kinect mean that even if a game I really want to play is only available for the XBone, I'll be very unlikely to get one
<dwatkins> Yeah, Dead Rising was a great game. I gather Dead Rising 3 is XBone only.
<ikonia> the second hand game thing is unusual
<ikonia> directhex: yes, I want to see something and play something that makes me say "wow"
<dwatkins> ikonia: yeah, I was very surprised at that - they seem to have forgotten that kids sell 2nd hand games and use the money to buy new[ish] ones
<JamesTait> directhex, I think *someone* is making them up, but it's not me.
<directhex> dwatkins, dead rising 3 isn't "next gen" though. we already know dead rising is current-gen :p
<directhex> dwatkins, i want the expanded hardware to open up opportunities for entirely new gameplay experiences, like dead rising originally did
<dwatkins> directhex: oh, there's nothing "new" in this 3rd version? That's a shame.
<ikonia> directhex: ok - you're running microsoft's xbox division, what do you want to see
<dwatkins> yeah, next gen should mean games do something different, take advantage of the CPU/GPU grunt, networking etc.
<directhex> well, too early to say. but i feel confident saying they could run dead rising 3 on xbox 360, if they ported it, without any significant change to the gameplay experience. worse graphics, sure, but same core game
<dwatkins> I imagine GTA VI will be XBone only, as MS will probably pay Rockstar any money to have it on their console.
<awilkins> I think the only real revolutions can come from peripheral hardware at this point
<awilkins> Like the Wii
<directhex> ikonia, imho the key "next gen" feature in both the ps4 and xbone is the quantity of RAM. let's take skyrim as an example - skyrim is what you get if you build an open-world game for a console with 206mb of game-usable main memory. what do you get from a system with 20 times that, in terms of immersive world?
<ikonia> directhex: ok, I'm following
<awilkins> RAM is OK but CPU is needed to run that RAM
<awilkins> The more cubic game units you are running "live" the more CPU you need
<ikonia> I'm going to make a retro request, make some good quality games that can be played with a simple controller, less human interface interaction
<awilkins> Which could be a feasible use of the alleged Cloud Computing aspect
<ikonia> I'd like to see quality old school style games with a moden twist
<dwatkins> Bubble Bobble 3D
<directhex> pong... 3d!
<awilkins> Yeah, I like the look of things like Transistor for example
<awilkins> Isometric 2.5D with interesting gameplay
<directhex> awilkins, mono on ps4!
<Laney> m0n0
<awilkins> Mono? As in OSS .NET runtime?
<directhex> https://twitter.com/SupergiantGames/statuses/340583864143577088
<ikonia> I wouldn't quite say that old
<awilkins> It makes sense, Bastion was Mono
<directhex> ikonia, ultimately the games i enjoy most have a strong narrative - i like to be told a story. that doesn't mean cut scenes and stuff - but it does mean strong art direction, and a world inhabited by characters i should care about
<awilkins> And you can cross-compile with Mono to native code, so it doesn't have to be a CLI running on PS4 to be developed in Mono
<ikonia> directhex: I agree, to an extent, the bottom line is the basis of the game play should be good, rather than as you say nice cut scense.
<mungbean> directhex: have you played dear esther?
<awilkins> (CLI == .NET Common Language Infrastructure in this case)
<directhex> awilkins, it is though. sony have a mono fork. it's the core of their indie offering.
<awilkins> directhex, Looks like Sony are grokking it better than MS. Although I suppose they went through the pain with OtherOS
<directhex> https://psm.playstation.net/portal/en/index.html
<awilkins> Maybe they are in the "If you can't beat em, join em" stage
<directhex> mungbean, i keep getting stuck within the first 5 minutes, which leaves me thinking "what the hell is this arthouse nonsense?"
<mungbean> dear esther
<mungbean> woops wrong window :P
<directhex> awilkins, also relevant: http://www.scei.co.jp/psvita-license/mono.html
<mungbean> it is described as "experimental"
<awilkins> I mean, whale on EA, but I quite enjoyed Dead Space, and actually liked 2 and 3 better than 1
<mungbean> "The status of Dear Esther as a video game has been contested by reviewers,"
<DJones> Anybody heard of a webhost going bust in the last 10 days, a messageboard I use went offline about a week ago, the admins reason was that the hosting provider went bust and they were having difficulties getting it transferred to somebody else, just wondering which provider it might have been
<awilkins> Which goes back to the "games with a story" aspect ; I really enjoyed sticking it to the Church of Unitology in the third one, carving their followers up with my plasma cutter like they were just necromorphs who didn't know it yet.
<ikonia> directhex: zelda, secret of Mana, I'd love to see good "new" versions of that, but without things like Wii controllers, or Kinnet.
<awilkins> "Hey, what do you know, cutting the limbs of PEOPLE works well too"
<directhex> awilkins, i didn't buy DS3 - the idea of a horror game co-op makes no sense to me
<directhex> also, every game witrh forced co-op is terrible
<awilkins> directhex, I didn't play it co-op
<directhex> ikonia, wind waker remake excites me
<directhex> awilkins, co-op with a bad AI
<ikonia> yes !
<awilkins> directhex, It isn't forced, it's side-missions only
<awilkins> directhex, So I guess I missed out on some shinies
<awilkins> Wind Waker but using a mic in the controller
<awilkins> Yes - to play this one, you actually have to be Not Tone Deaf (tm)
<awilkins> Whistle the songs
<awilkins> There's enough CPU power now you wouldn't even have to pause the action to think about what tune was being whistled
<mungbean> does anyone have problem with firefox text tearing when slow scrolling
 * awilkins uses Chrome mostly now
<mungbean> rippples of lines etc
<awilkins> Or Chromium
<mungbean> disabled smoooth scrolling
<mungbean> seems to fix
<BigRedS> mungbean: I've not seen any
<directhex> mungbean, x11.
<awilkins> Smooth scrolling probably depends on hardware support
<directhex> if it tears, it's x11's fault and unfixable
<mungbean> its a rippling effect
<awilkins> Which means an unholy mess of drivers and other software have to collude to make it work properly
<mungbean> chrome is more busy on my disk
<mungbean> chug chug chug
<awilkins> Nyarrgh
<awilkins> Pulseaudio : still annoying
<awilkins> Mostly I think people who moan about Pulseaudio are going overboard
<mungbean> pulseaudio caused my youtube to speed up double speed in chrome yesterday, and half speed in firefox
<BigRedS> I haven't had a problem with Pulse for as long as I can remember now
<BigRedS> and, generally, I'm annoyed by all software
<Laney> grah ubuntu pastebin graghrhg
<Laney> requiring authentication to download plaintext is the worst
<awilkins> For me, Pulse has this one intermittent fault where it gets it's knickers in a twist when the audio breaks down a bit, and then you have to kill it and restart or all it produces is noise
<awilkins> Happens quite often if you're hopping around in videos, for example
<awilkins> Laney, I can see why they've done it, stops them being used as a general Naughty File Repository
<Laney> I know why
<awilkins> Laney, I find it mildly annoying also :-)
<Laney> because I love having to manually copy and paste instead of wgetting |: :| |: :|
<awilkins> Och, yes, things that use horrible auth schemes that wget can't grok
<awilkins> V. annoying
<awilkins> Like CollabNet Teamforge file download thing
<awilkins> i) Needs cookie based auth so you can't use wget
<awilkins> ii) Doesn't allow download resumes
<awilkins> iii) Their datacentre is over-utilized
<awilkins> So you have a 500MB download that takes AAAGES and then falls over after 480MB and you bite the table
<awilkins> In the end we resorted to downloading the file to one of our hosted machines and then fetching it via WebDAV from our home folders
<awilkins> But to download it we had to install a whole desktop environment and NX on the remote server because as mentioned, stupid cookie based auth
<awilkins> Which wget and text-mode browsers couldn't grok
<Laney> quality
<directhex> urgh
<Laney> grugle
<davmor2> Morning all
<Gary> morningz
 * popey tickles Gary 
 * Gary likes that
<bigcalm> Morning Gary & davmor2
<davmor2> bigcalm: hey dude
<andylockran> morning
<awilkins> Not for long
<Gary> woot, almost lynchtime
<dwatkins> good, I'm starving
<mungbean> does anyone else have problems with monitors in portrait mode appearing blurry
<Gary> I have a problem with everything being blurry
<Gary> oh, I forgot to put on my glasses, oopsy
<awilkins> mungbean, I expect they might be blurry - is it mostly the text?
<mungbean> yeah
<awilkins> The typographic stuff is all designed to anti-alias text on pixels in the normal orientation
<mungbean> i suppose screens are not designed for sideways text?
<mungbean> is it fixable?
<awilkins> Dunno
<awilkins> You used to be able to mess with the settings
<awilkins> About sub-pixel rendering
<awilkins> But I think it's one of the things that was removed in the great quest for not giving users too much control over things
<mungbean> actually using windows atm on that machine
<awilkins> Ah, well, ClearType settings widget
<awilkins> Dunno if it copes with vertical pixels but that's your best hope
<awilkins> Apparently not
<awilkins> Only works on vertical pixel stripes ordered RGB
<awilkins> http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/dd183433(v=vs.85).aspx
<awilkins> Maybe if you turn it off things will be non-smooth but non-blurry
<awilkins> And apparently Ubuntu supports portrait model subpixel rendering
<awilkins> http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1564089
<awilkins> http://karpolan.com/software/cleartype-switch/
<mungbean> what's a good price for 2nd hand wii fit board and wii fit games
<Myrtti> omg its Gary
<MooDoo> who's garry?
<MooDoo> gary?
<popey> gary was one of the very first people in this channel
<Myrtti> or #ubuntu, or #ubuntu-offtopic
<Laney> how do I get irssi to tell me when this channel was created?
<Laney> 10/06 19:48:39 -!- Channel #ubuntu-uk created Sun Nov 26 06:42:45 2006
<Laney> bah, can't find that old logs site pre-loco-channels-using-irclogs.u.c
<DJones> Laney: Just ask Gary, I thought he was the original founder
<Laney> found some stuff on archive.org
<Laney> http://web.archive.org/web/20090107162546/http://logs.ubuntu-eu.org/freenode/2006/11/09/#ubuntu-uk.html is the earliest one that I found available
<Gary> DJones, I took over from the founder, ages ago!
<JamesTait> Gary! Welcome back!
<DJones> Gary: Ah, I thought you were the original, uncopied, one and only :)
<MooDoo> popey: sorry I know who gary is just couldn't remember the surname :D
<Gary> DJones, I am original for sure
<MooDoo> he is the one and only.....er ok no singing
<DJones> :)
<Gary> channel was regged 8 years ago, I was only here, as me, 7 years back odd
<Gary> blimey
<Seeker`> Who was the original founder? I have a feeling that LMM owned the channel when I first started coming here
<Gary> yes, that was it!
<Gary> oh my
<Seeker`> That log must have been very shortly before I joined
<Seeker`> Registered : Nov 20 23:44:23 2006 (6 years, 29 weeks, 1 day, 13:44:07 ago)
<Seeker`> when my nick was registered
<popey> really?
<popey> i am pretty sure LMM arrived later
<Seeker`> really?
<Gary> I get " Registered : Dec 11 09:51:55 2004" for this channel
<popey> he arrived around sept 2006 iirc
<Seeker`> popey: what was his real name?
<Gary> and is he still a councillor (local village council or something)
<popey> nik butler
<Seeker`> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-uk/2006-September/thread.html
<Seeker`> first appearance on the mailing lists I think
<Seeker`> I can't remember 2006 properly :P
<mungbean> anyone used get_flash_videos script?
<Gary> blimey, linuxworld was 2006!  wow
<MooDoo> yay my first appearance in the ubuntu uk mailing list - 2006 october :D
<brobostigon> :)
<MooDoo> think i setup my launchpad about then too
<popey> so LRL 2005 must have been the one where LMM got his name
<popey> oh, no
<popey> must be 2006
<popey> 2005 was the first one, and I didn't go to that
<popey> so LMM got his name on 23rd July 2006 during a Q&A
<brobostigon> my launchpad is apparently 07.05.2008
<Dave2> I thought the first LRL was 2004
<Dave2> oh, no, I only missed 2
<Dave2> so must've been 2005
<popey> 2005 was at the statium
<popey> *stadium
<Dave2> I went to 07, 08, and 09
<davmor2> popey: I still have my Ubuntu tshirt that LMM put together for the linux world
<popey> ditto
<Dave2> LinuxWorld was definitely 2006 because it was during freshers week when I'd just started uni so couldn't go
<davmor2> pre canoncial shop
<MooDoo> I went to the one in 2006
<Dave2> Apparently my launchpad account is from 2005. What was I doing with a launchpad account in 2005.
<davmor2> I was pimping jokosher man that seems like a lifetime ago
<Dave2> JONOEDIT
<mungbean> what happened to that?
<popey> !info jokosher
<lubotu3> jokosher (source: jokosher): simple and easy to use audio multi-tracker. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.11.5-5 (quantal), package size 1131 kB, installed size 4088 kB
<MooDoo> just posted onto g+ a pic I took from LRL 2006 :D
<mungbean> isn't raring the latest release?
<mungbean> !info jokosher raring
<lubotu3> jokosher (source: jokosher): simple and easy to use audio multi-tracker. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.11.5-5 (raring), package size 1131 kB, installed size 4088 kB
<davmor2> MooDoo: you were at LRL
<MooDoo> davmor2: yes in 2006, I've put a pic on google+ :D
<popey> hah, i think LMM has me blocked on his G+
<Gary> I remember trying to chat up jono at LRL AND linuxworld!
<popey> if I look at his G+ in a private browsing window I see his posts, but not if I look when logged in.
<MooDoo> davmor2: check FB!
<Gary> popey, he hates you?
<popey> must do
<popey> https://plus.google.com/102628325676884235660/posts/aJ6bxvADhR8
<MooDoo> davmor2: they were bright yello if I remember
<popey> he still has his ubuntu t-shirts â»
<davmor2> MooDoo: the are indeed
<MooDoo> I've still got mine that he did as well....need a new one though
<Gary> I've still got mine too, plus a few tshirts
<popey> ooh, another blast from the past.. Mark Harrison
<MooDoo> blimey not heard that name in awhile
<MooDoo> then again not seen or heard from paul sladen in awhile with his bike
<popey> sladen pops up now and then â»
<davmor2> I remember refusing to allow sabdfl into the very first LRL without having his hand potato stamped :D
<davmor2> The best of it was when he saw it was an actual potato he was all up for it :)
 * popey tags the image
 * Laney only went to one LRL
<Laney> the last one...
 * mgdm went to '08
<MooDoo> I think there should be a big reunion LRL tour 2014
<MooDoo> Don't Listen Alone - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txfuND_KYz0
<davmor2> MooDoo: propose it to jono and wait for the laughter to die down
<MooDoo> davmor2: pah rid a man of his dreams why don't you
<davmor2> MooDoo: I didn't say it wouldn't happen just that the laughter would need to die down before you carry on with the conversation :D
<MooDoo> :)
<MooDoo> suppose we could all do it google+ lol
<daftykins> doh - the age old dilemma - can't read the windows product key on the laptop COA sticker 'cause it's worn off with age :(
<mgdm> there's a tool that can grab the key from a running Windows image
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: isn't it in ROM?
<MartijnVdS> dmidecode or something?
<mgdm> MartijnVdS: the Windows product key? Why would it be in ROM?
<MartijnVdS> mgdm: some Windowses can read it from there
<daftykins> mgdm: yeah, but manufacturers install with OEM copies and their SLIC licenses
<daftykins> so the key inside the OS isn't the COA sticker one
<daftykins> it's really annoying because it's so close to being readable
<daftykins> i've got a VM up right now i'm trying to type guesses into :D
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: photo + some sliders in gimp?
<MartijnVdS> colours/contrast/etc.
<daftykins> might be worth a go, yeah
<daftykins> ooh hang on
<daftykins> a character just changed
<daftykins> :D
<MartijnVdS> *\o/*
<daftykins> aww nah now it instantly rejects it
<popey> I hateses all license keys
<directhex> mgdm, that's the windows 8 thing now. cd key is embedded in rom, not printed on laptop
<popey> nice
<mgdm> directhex: Oh, "nice"
<directhex> also, no more oem media. you use the windows 8 "reset" option to restore the hardware from the recovery partition
<directhex> crapware & all
<daftykins> fun times!
<daftykins> but you can get 8 images easy so there's no need for that
<popey> I don't think I've even touched a machine that has Windows 8 on it.
<daftykins> a friend bought an Asus with it on, he called me and asked me to get rid of it ASAP :)
<daftykins> that's the only time i have - first time i had to do an EFI install too
 * MartijnVdS did an EFI install on his new Haswell machine
<MartijnVdS> (which had no OS on it ever before)
<daftykins> :)
<MartijnVdS> getting an UEFI-booting USB stick was the hardest bit
<MartijnVdS> unetbootin' doesn't make them
<daftykins> o rry?
<daftykins> they should be informed of this
<MartijnVdS> the "usb-creator" software in Ubuntu does work
<daftykins> hrmm i think i've got this key right but it's just not being accepted, despite my using a matched disc image
<daftykins> how rude
<daftykins> does anyone fancy having a go? :)
 * shauno dusts off the rubber mallet
<popey> I'd end up just getting a key off some random website
<popey> especially if it's a legit copy
<daftykins> nah, there are methods to inject SLIC data into memory at boot
<popey> and phone and shout at MS if it fails
<daftykins> so you can enable a legit manufacturer-auth'd laptop
<daftykins> 'Windows Loader' is a program that does it
<daftykins> you're just in danger of any future Windows updates possibly trashing it then
<daftykins> i always keep systems legit where i can, never had to use the above
<popey> yeah, i have two windows installs, both legit
 * popey puts on some Donna Summer and boogies till he pukes
<Dave2> I hope you're going to clean that up
<popey> http://www.linuxadvocates.com/2013/06/the-myth-of-foss-community.html
<popey> what a complete and utter
<mgdm> troll?
<popey> that too
<popey> http://toys.usvsth3m.com/edballs/
<popey> fun
<popey> 0.744 is my fastest
<daftykins> i've got an image of this license key up if anyone would care to let me link them for guessing?
<mgdm> 0.513 :|
<popey> ali1234 is quite good at that
<popey> haha
<mgdm> became easier when I noticed it doesn't care about capitilization :-)
<popey> ditto
<brobostigon> that was weird, bbc1/2 itv1 ch4 ch5, totally dissappeared from the sky box, untill i restarted it, and they came back.
<daftykins> hehe
<shauno> you gotta wonder where we're going with this, when you have to reboot the TV
<daftykins> done a firmware update for fun?
<brobostigon> daftykins: no firmware update, that i know of.
<daftykins> for the sky box? they happen all the time and there aren't really public knowledge of the dates
<zleap> there has been a message on my digi box to say retune the box,  i did and it still comes up maybe it just needed a restart for the same reason
<brobostigon> ah, could have been then.
 * AlanBell contemplates an upgrade to saucy
<MooDoo> davmor2: hello I guess jono stopped laughing :p
<davmor2> MooDoo: did he now :)
<MooDoo> davmor2: have you not seen the g+ comments on my image?
<daftykins> ?
<popey> https://plus.google.com/u/0/100200339012189946537/posts/7CkEjVZCUCF
<davmor2> MooDoo, popey: hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha we'll see
<MooDoo> davmor2: so there :p
<MooDoo> never under estimate the power of the dark..er er :)
<Myrtti> butt?
<MooDoo> helmet
<davmor2> Myrtti, MooDoo: butt, helmet!  You two are putting nothing into the word association game are you ?
<Myrtti> cheese?
 * ^aDaM yawns
<^aDaM> Damn what has Ubuntu done to me? up early hours on Linux is not good :D
<^aDaM> But keeps my brain updated so I suppose it is good.
<^aDaM> popey, you got me hooked and I will never load a Windows cd in my drive again ... infact!
 * ^aDaM brakes all his OEM M$ CD/DVDs..
 * ^aDaM CRUNCH!
<^aDaM> \o/
<daftykins> ^aDaM: nooooooo
<^aDaM> :))))
<AlanBell> help, I got stuck in an upgrade http://paste.ubuntu.com/5756056/
<daftykins> ooh-err, dependancy and version hell
<AlanBell> yeah :(
<zleap> hi all
<daftykins> hey zleap
<DJones> AlanBell: On the basis you were asking about Saucy, have you checked in +1 might be something they've come across
<AlanBell> nah, this is a separate thing altogether
<daftykins> indeed, looks like an older install
<daftykins> AlanBell: do you get anywhere manually installing a different one of the kernel deb's first from the APT cache? that's my only idea 'cause i'm a bit too noob
<daftykins> surely the sequence wouldn't matter but *shrug*
<daftykins> weird it's looking for older stuff :D
<popey> AlanBell: still not fixed?
<popey> AlanBell: is this a vm guest?
<popey> AlanBell: apt-cache policy linux-headers-generic-pae
<AlanBell> http://paste.ubuntu.com/5756121/
<AlanBell> it is a vm guest, but I installed it, nothing odd about the kernel setup
<popey> what kernel is it currently running?
<AlanBell> now this may have something to do with it
<AlanBell> 3.2.0-23-generic-pae
<AlanBell> and I removed that kernel by accident earlier as it was the oldest kernel in the list and I needed the space
<popey> thats ye-olde
<AlanBell> didn't realise how long this server hadn't been rebooted for
<daftykins> i'd nuke all the older ones than currently installed, autoremove, then boot into the newest and try install again? but then i'm a newb
<popey> how did you accidentally remove it?
<popey> apt or rm?
<AlanBell> apt-get --remove
<AlanBell> and it printed a warning that it was the running kernel as it cheerfully carried on and removed it
 * ^2fC try's to sudo apt-get -make sandwich in Terminal.
 * ^2fC E: Invalid operation sandwich
<^2fC> :(
<popey> might be wise to reinstall that ye-olde kernel with dpkg first?
<popey> to get yourself straight?
<AlanBell> so find the .dep in the archives and dpkg it
<popey> wget it from http://ubuntu.mirror.cambrium.nl/ubuntu//pool/main/l/linux/linux-image-3.2.0-23-generic-pae_3.2.0-23.36_i386.deb
<daftykins> i've taken off the running one after installing a new one before, but not the other way around
<daftykins> i don't think that's necessary, you've got another 2 or 3 at least on, why not just reboot into a newer one?
<popey> or yes, apt-get install linux-image-generic-pae=3.2.0-23
<AlanBell> it won't let me with apt-get
<popey> dpkg should
<AlanBell> yes, it did
<popey> daftykins: because it's generally better to tidy stuff up rather than reboot and hope
<popey> ime
<daftykins> ok, i see no hope to it though
<popey> i like tidy â»
<popey> I dont like rebooting machines with a broken packaging setup, it's icky
<daftykins> :)
<daftykins> fair play sir
<AlanBell> yeah, me too, especially if the kernel is the borked bit
<daftykins> btw after our talk of paella the other day, i just now finished a large one to myself
<popey> AlanBell: is that letting your apt-continue, now thats installed?
<daftykins> co-op claimed it was for 2 - pah
<daftykins> :D
<AlanBell> nope, similar problem . . .
<popey> oh, the co-op ones are okay
<daftykins> it was their fancy range though - Â£6 :S
<popey> maybe you also need the 3.2.0-23 headers etc?
<AlanBell> http://paste.ubuntu.com/5756148/
<popey> the only downside is it lacks much chorizo and the fish can be chewy/overcooked
<popey> but nice enough
<daftykins> yeah i wouldn't say it broke my top 3
<daftykins> ok i've got to reboot my host, downsides of having Linux VMs atop a Windows system Â¬_Â¬
<daftykins> curious to see how that goes though AlanBell
<daftykins> back shortly \o
<popey> AlanBell: odd you have an old half-installed kernel it seems
<popey> can you remove linux-generic-pae=3.2.0.38.46
<AlanBell> E: Version â3.2.0.38.46â for âlinux-generic-paeâ was not found
<popey> sorry
<popey> miss the .46 off
<AlanBell> E: Version â3.2.0.38â for âlinux-generic-paeâ was not found
<AlanBell> also E: Version â3.2.0.38â for âlinux-image-generic-paeâ was not found
<popey> hmmm
<popey>   Version of linux-image-generic-pae on system is 3.2.0.38.46.
<popey> oh, its 3.2.0-38
<popey> stupid apt lies
<popey> so apt-get remove linux-image-generic-pae=3.2.0-38
<AlanBell> E: Version â3.2.0-38â for âlinux-image-generic-paeâ was not found
<popey> dpkg -l linux-image-generic-pae | grep 3.2.0-38
<popey> is it listed?
<AlanBell> nope
<AlanBell> iU  linux-image-generic-pae            3.2.0.38.46                  Generic Linux kernel image
<popey> ah thats yes
<popey> dpkg -r linux-image-generic-pae=3.2.0.38.46
<popey> i _think_ dpkg allows you to do that
<AlanBell> dpkg: error: package name in specifier 'linux-image-generic-pae=3.2.0.38.46' is illegal: character `=' not allowed (only letters, digits and characters `-+._')
<popey> so no
<popey> what does it try to do if you dpkg -r linux-image-generic-pae  ?
<AlanBell> ooh, it removes something
<popey> now what if you apt-get -f install?
<AlanBell> fan flipping tastic
<popey> is that good?
<AlanBell> yes, very good
<popey> super
<AlanBell> you must pop round for lunch/beer soon
<popey> heh
<daftykins> ah finally back
<daftykins> did you crack it in the end?
<popey> ya
<daftykins> putting that one back on cracked it?
<popey> no, removing the busted package
<popey> dpkg -r linux-image-generic-pae
<daftykins> ooh
<daftykins> just some sort of partially-installed failure then?
<xnox> czajkowski: what the heck!
<xnox> czajkowski: i mean, what the heck!
<czajkowski> xnox: pm!
<daftykins> D:
<Laney> haha
 * czajkowski peers at Laney oi 
<Laney> â¥
<Laney> czajkowski: when's hackntalk?
<Laney> (is that what it's called)
<Laney> nm I decided not to be lazy and googled it
<czajkowski> yup
<czajkowski> later this month
<czajkowski> after I move house
<czajkowski> really didnt thinkn that one through
<Laney> going far?
<czajkowski> Guildford
<Laney> not so far
<daftykins> i heard that place is quite the dive
<Laney> what a nice thing to say
<Laney> hmm, there's some cheapish advance tickets to LDN on that day
<czajkowski> http://hackntalkjune.eventbrite.com/
<czajkowski> Laney: come visit!!!!
<Laney> will there be pub after?
<Laney> i.e. should I get a late evening train back?
<czajkowski> Laney: we didnt the last time
<daftykins> Laney: you should book a room in a hedge
<czajkowski> but no reason to not go for a beer
<Laney> iiiiiiiiiiiiiiinteresting
#ubuntu-uk 2013-06-12
<dwatkins> mornin
<Myrtti> meh
<brobostigon> morning everyone,
<knightwise> hey brobostigon
<knightwise> good morning dude !
<brobostigon> morning knightwise
<knightwise> how are you dude
<TheOpenSourcerer> Morning all - anyone else use Hotot and find it not working this morning?
<brobostigon> knightwise: crap, being dumped by sms, is ineffectual unemotional and stringy. and you?
<knightwise> crud dude :( thats realy poor taste :( that sux :(
<brobostigon> very sux, yes. crud?
<knightwise> "Crud" = Crap, (crud is a dark kind of grimy dirt)
<brobostigon> her doing that, says two logical things to me, either and or, she was strigning me along and or for some time she felt nothing at all.
<brobostigon> ah. i shall remeber that word.
<knightwise> anyone who breaks up with you in less then 124 characters is not worth spilling more then 124 tears over
<brobostigon> agreed, hence me saying ineffectual and unemotional.
<dwatkins> I was dumped via telephone once, that was almost as bad as via text message.
<brobostigon> yes.
 * knightwise got dumped over the phone once too. 
<knightwise> we had only been together for three years ...
<brobostigon> it is hurtful that someone cant even face talking directly to you, and has to be disconnected.
<dwatkins> looking back, it was a lucky escape for me, but at the time it really hurt.
<knightwise> true
<knightwise> but in the end you are better of without those kind of people in your life
<brobostigon> probably, yes.
<brobostigon> after two years of not updating my blog, i did so last night. amazing isnt it.
<dwatkins> yeah, although my most recent ex waited until I drove down to London from Edinburgh to split up with me face-to-face by handing me a letter, which was really surreal.
<dwatkins> yeah, I realised I started losing myself in "being a couple", which is dangerous whatever happens.
<brobostigon> fair point,
<dwatkins> ironically, she now takes the train to come and see me, as we're still friends and she misses Edinburgh.
 * dwatkins is reminded of the submission for "ironic" as one of the most misused words, having probably just misused it
<brobostigon> and i have a good feeling, my aspergers was the issue, as i was talking to a good friend of mine yesterday afternoon and she said, it seemed sometimes as if it put alot of pressure on the relationship when none would be normally.
<dwatkins> I got the "just pals" speech the other day from a rather nice doctor I've been spending time with, so yet again am moving on, reminding myself of ponds etc.
<dwatkins> I'm probably on the aspergers spectrum, but have never been officially diagnosed.
<dwatkins> Socially I sometimes find it very difficult to fit in, and sometimes I need to just lock myself away from the world. Perhaps that's just being an introvert, though.
<brobostigon> a good example being, either of two possible things, either i am too distant or too close, no inbetween.
<dwatkins> sounds familiar, I am often told I'm too open, wear my heart on my sleeve etc. but I also feel I sometimes just don't say anything and there's slightly uncomfortable slience.
<dwatkins> Silence shouldn't be uncomfortable.
<brobostigon> reminds me of shuttle journeys between tuvok and seven in St voyager.
 * dwatkins apologises for waffling, but is probably still drunk having been to see Helen Arney last night doing her maths/science comedy gig "Voice of an angle"
<dwatkins> [sic]
<dwatkins> haha yeah
 * dwatkins wonders if he's Tuvok or Seven...
<brobostigon> it is a good analogy.
<dwatkins> indeed, makes me think I should re-watch that series after I've finished rewatching Stargate
<brobostigon> :)
 * dwatkins has a sudden urge to try Crunchbang Linux
 * brobostigon has a urge to aim his head at a wall, but is trying hard not too.
<dwatkins> I find shouting at trains helps
<MooDoo> morning
<brobostigon> interesting idea, the closest i could do here, is standing on the railway bridge, but that might look abit strange.
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo
<kaushal> Hi
<kaushal> I have installed unity-pidgin-lens
<kaushal> How do i search it in dash?
<dwatkins> note to self: don't reboot servers with disk problems
 * brobostigon is just updating his blog again, with something insightful. hopefully.
<kaushal> dwatkins: Hi
<dwatkins> ello kaushal
<dwatkins> I think I'll setup a raspberry Pi at home so I've got something to log in to and act as a proxy. No need to keep using the netbook now I have a NAS.
<kaushal> dwatkins: Any clue?
<dwatkins> kaushal: no, I have no clue.
<kaushal> dwatkins: ok np
<dwatkins> What does its documentation say?
<ali1234> why not just use the NAS
<dwatkins> ali1234: I'm not sure I want to expose any ports of it to the internets
<dwatkins> I'm rather looking forward to this game being released http://play0ad.com/
<mungbean> is there a good cli for examining video files to inspect codecs etc?
<mungbean> more than "file blah.avi"
<mungbean> i get RIFF (little-endian) data, AVI, 640 x 360, 25.00 fps, video: XviD, audio: (stereo, 48000 Hz)
<mungbean> but vlc will not play it
<mungbean> bad audio
<JamesTait> Good morning all, happy Day Against Child Labour and happy Loving Day! :-D
 * AlanBell won't be telling the kids about that one
<BigRedS> haha
<JamesTait> Me neither.
 * JamesTait cracks the whip
<Gary> oooo, a whip
<Gary> giggity
<JamesTait> Not *that* whip, Gary, that's put away somewhere safe.
<Gary> aww
<JamesTait> How are you, young man? Haven't seen you for a while.
<Gary> my child is pretty much firm on his stance about any form of labour anyway, he's normally found in bed
<Gary> james, pretty good thank you
<JamesTait> Good good. :)
<mungbean> mediainfo is the answer to my question
<mungbean> wonders in MartijnVdS is around
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS: you around? ;)
<mungbean> i think i may have solved my problem
<mungbean> wanted a audio converter expert to tell me which audio format a divx player is likely to support
<mungbean> i am guessing at avconv using libmp3lame..will find out tonight
<popey> mungbean: be surprised if it didn't support mp3
<popey> ooh http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2013/06/exclusive-an-early-look-at-intels-own-phone-ui-obsidian/
<popey> next year there's going to be so many phone choices
<mungbean> non ARM intel chips?
<BigRedS> Oh man, I don't want choice!
 * ^2fC *yawns* ...
<^2fC> Morn all.
<popey> the phone in that video looked like a samsung galaxy nexus to me, but I am no expert
<BigRedS> thinking about it, though, Android still has so many stupid UI/UX bugs in it that I'd be skeptical of any new one that's less than a couple of 'proper' releases in
<mungbean> never really noticed issues with android
<mungbean> except that it was initially somewhat unintuitive when i first used it
<BigRedS> Nah, they're not major, just little niggles that irk
<BigRedS> like the back button being unpredictable
<mungbean> my back button has started to sometimes not work
<mungbean> i figure its the most used button on my phone
<mungbean> as a means of switchign windows
<mungbean> my ARM shares lost about 20% last week
<directhex> BigRedS, silly child. whenever you complain about those types of bugs, the fix is "upgrade to android+1"
<directhex> and if you do, and it still sucks, "your hardware sucks. add more cores"
<davmor2> Morning all
<BigRedS> directhex: haha, yeah. Android has the _worst_ sort of "$thing is infallible" fanbois
<BigRedS> but, also, I'm pretty bad at using comptuers. I generally get annoyed by whatever I'm using
<directhex> i still like the WebOS UX best, but not its bugs
<BigRedS> I miss my P900 but I'm sure it has problems that I've now forgotten
<BigRedS> I do seem to be forever dealing with my desktop displaying cached content when I want new stuff and my phone dropping the cache as soon as it's written it and demanding it reload the page
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<MooDoo> mroning
<Gary> mornzzzzz
<Gary> oh why did I have a cup of coffee at 10pm last night!!!
<TheOpenSourcerer> ping popey
<aquarius> so: a shared hosting environment with ssh. I would like to know whether /tmp is a tmpfs or not. It is a chroot. I do not have the mount command, nor df; /proc is not mounted; there is no /etc/mtab. Can I work this out?
<BigRedS> aquarius: it's definitely a linux? Do you have a /sys?
<aquarius> I do not
<directhex> aquarius, yes. free -m, try to create that many megs in /tmp and see if it crashes :>
<aquarius> lulz
<BigRedS> (I don't know if /sys is useful yet, but I'll have a look if it sounds it)
<BigRedS> haha
<mgdm> aquarius: even if there's no mtab is there an fstab? I guess no...
<aquarius> also free doesn't work because free: error while loading shared libraries: libproc-3.2.7.so: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
<aquarius> there is no /etc/fstab
<aquarius> BigRedS, no /sys. I am 93% sure that it's a linux. Ways to confirm this are invited ;)
<aquarius> it may well be a rather old linux.
<directhex> uname ?
<bigcalm> uname showing anything?
<aquarius> uname not available in jail shell
<aquarius> I obviously tried that ;)
<directhex> execute libc.
<aquarius> directhex,  ?
<directhex> directhex@barnabas:~$ /lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libc-2.17.so | grep Compiled
<directhex> Compiled by GNU CC version 4.7.3.
<directhex> Compiled on a Linux 3.8.8 system on 2013-04-18.
<bigcalm> aquarius: man cp - see what the version is at the bottom of the page
<aquarius> Compiled by GNU CC version 4.1.2 20071124 (Red Hat 4.1.2-42).
<aquarius> Compiled on a Linux 2.6.9 system on 2008-12-05.
<aquarius> \m/
<aquarius> so it is Linux.
<aquarius> also: ancient, as suspected ;)
<bigcalm> Dead Rat 4, nice
<directhex> 2.6.9 is rhel4, iirc?
<popey> TheOpenSourcerer: pong
<aquarius> OK, so, instead of asking the tmpfs question, here is my *actual* question.
<mgdm> libc is not executable on this box. hmm.
<aquarius> I want to share data between PHP scripts.
<BigRedS> Haha, I was wondering why you cared about tmpfs
<TheOpenSourcerer> popey got a minute?
<popey> ya
<aquarius> I cannot install any compiled thing.
<aquarius> PHP is not compiled with the shared memory extension, so shmop_* doesn't exist.
<aquarius> I do not want to write to the actual filesystem because it'd be rather slow.
<mgdm> aquarius: does it have APC?
<aquarius> APC is not installed.
<aquarius> (and it needs compiling, so I can't install it.)
<aquarius> My idea was: write to a tmpfs. I can't mount my own, but maybe I can use /tmp.
<aquarius> But I am open to other ideas on how to do what I want.
<brobostigon> .win 2
<aquarius> "get non-lame hosting" is prohibited as an idea.
<mgdm> that's probably the easiest way to do it
<bigcalm> How quick does the script need to be for writing to a file system to be a bad idea?
<BigRedS> on a shared host fs writes are going to be hilariously inconsistent, I'd have thought
<aquarius> bigcalm, well... it's not really about that sort of quickness, it's that I plan to use the filesystem as a semaphore, sortafing
<BigRedS> several billion sites each probably writing sessions to disk
<bigcalm> Ug
<aquarius> bigcalm, so I may do something egregiously horrid like hit the fs every second to see if there's a file there.
<aquarius> poor man's inotify ;)
<bigcalm> Right
<BigRedS> aquarius: lots of our customers do much worse than that
<bigcalm> How about `watch ls`? ;)
<popey> watch -n 0.1 ls
<aquarius> <?php while(true) { sleep(1); if (file_exists("/tmp/".$myid)) { do a thing }; }
<BigRedS> chances of php being able to exec while there's no /proc =~ 0
<aquarius> oooooooooooo I have watch.
<BigRedS> (not that they're related)
<mgdm> aquarius: do you have the 'apache_setenv' function? http://uk1.php.net/manual/en/function.apache-setenv.php
<aquarius> can watch write to stdout?
<aquarius> I've only ever run it interactively, and it clears the screen etc
<aquarius> that is: can I run it and monitor it?
<aquarius> haha setenv. I haven't tried that!
<aquarius> how much space is there for envars?
<mgdm> pass. :-)
<popey> why not set a flag in a database?
<aquarius> popey, because polling mysql to see if anything's changed is slow :(
<bigcalm> sqlite?
<aquarius> and it hammers the db something vicious.
<bigcalm> Quick on reads
<aquarius> hahahahaha sqlite. No sqlite.
<popey> also, get non-lame hosting
<popey> â»
<aquarius> popey, I believe I was clear about that ;-)
<popey> still needed saying
<aquarius> I agree
<aquarius> but I can't face it.
<aquarius> hence trying to do what I can with what I have :)
<BigRedS> aquarius: there's huge space for environment vars, QUERY_STRING, for example, is an environment var and 'limited' to about 10K
<aquarius> maybe just poll the DB every five seconds, I supopse.
<aquarius> BigRedS, that's space for one envar, indeed. The point of this is: if someone changes object 12345, I would like other people viewing object 12345 to be informed of the change.
<aquarius> BigRedS, to do that with envars, I'd need to add, say, envar OBJECT_12345=<timestamp>
<aquarius> one envar per object that's changed.
<aquarius> that's a *lot* of envar space ;)
<brobostigon> liquid lunch i reckon. :)
<BigRedS> yeah, I wasn't sure what you intended to do with them, but finally saw a question whose answer I sort-of knew :)
<aquarius> hence debating doing it with files...
<aquarius> maybe just hit the DB from a long-poll PHP script.
<BigRedS> yeah, personally I'd do it with the fs. They do still sometimes surprise people by being fast
<aquarius> I'd use firebase and do it all client side if they weren't quite expensive ;(
<bigcalm> aquarius: if you could cope with a resolution of 5 seconds, that would ease things somewhat
<aquarius> (also pusher, pulse, etc)
<aquarius> bigcalm, yeah -- if you and I are next to one another in the pub, and I change a thing, and you see the chage five seconds later, that'd be OK, I think
<aquarius> less would be nice, but not too much of a problem
<bigcalm> How much is this to scale?
<aquarius> maybe even put an index on the last-updated-id column
<aquarius> bigcalm, well. Probably not very much
<bigcalm> Is your user base in the thousands for instance?
<aquarius> bigcalm, but... maybe it'll take off.
<aquarius> if that happens, "get un-lame hosting" is more worth it ;)
<bigcalm> If whatever this is takes off, move it to better hosting ;)
<BigRedS> if( hosting_is_lame() ){ hack(); }else{ do_it_properly(); }
<aquarius> exactly.
<bigcalm> while (budget) { ... }
<aquarius> more this: if (popular) { spend_money_on_good_hosting(); } else { dont_waste_money(); hack(); } :-)
<aquarius> poll the db, huh?
<aquarius> man, I hate polling.
<aquarius> but then PHP hates shared anything. :)
<aquarius> "install memcache", sig
<aquarius> sigh
<aquarius> so, we poll. For great justice.
<BigRedS> aquarius: not sure if you're interested in favour-based hosting, but I can probably sort out something less-lame for free
<aquarius> special table just for this? who's feeling DBAish today?
<aquarius> BigRedS, the reason I'm using the super-lame-o hosting is that it's where kryogenix.org is :)
<aquarius> and I'm not moving that.  I chose it for a reason :)
<BigRedS> ahh yeah, I remember that :)
<aquarius> but the offer is appreciated!
<aquarius> Completely different question: given a package that I have installed, can I find out whether I got it from a PPA or from the Ubutnu archives?
<mgdm> aquarius: err... apt-cache policy?
<mgdm> wild guess
<aquarius>         100 /var/lib/dpkg/status
<aquarius> does that mean "it was in the Ubutnu archives"?
<popey> yes, apt-cache policy says where you got it
<popey> if that is the only line then you installed it manually from a deb or you removed the ppa it came from
<aquarius> Ah!
<popey> or you upgraded from a release where the package exists
<aquarius> that is the bit of information I was missing :)
<popey> i.e. it means it doesn't know the source
<aquarius> sigh, so I have to install from the "unstable ppa". :(
<popey> what package?
<aquarius> polly
<popey> they dont have a stable ppa?
<aquarius> gotta love it when an app has an "unstable" ppa and a "daily" ppa an nothing else.
<aquarius> and all other twitter apps are horrid. :(
 * aquarius is having a frustrating computer day, today.
 * popey only uses tweetdeck these days
<popey> don't use any twitter "apps" other than on phones/tablets
<aquarius> tweetdeck on the web?
<popey> ya
<aquarius> does it do proper notifications?
<popey> https://web.tweetdeck.com/
<popey> uhm
<TheOpenSourcerer> hotot #ftw
<popey> dunno
<aquarius> hotot can't even sign in, for me.
<aquarius> have filed a bug abotu it.
<popey> doesn't look like it
<TheOpenSourcerer> aquarius: Chage all the API version to 1.1
<popey> but I have my desktop signed into twitter so i get those notifications anyway
<popey> (some time later â¹ )
<aquarius> popey, ya, I do too (so I get them twice... and the friends ones are Quite A Lot Later)
<aquarius> I have hassled lord kenneth about the streaming api
<TheOpenSourcerer> Sign-in, main feed, posting and profiles work
<popey> oh, bitlbee broke for me today
<popey> 12:00:51 ERROR: popey@Twitter Error during home_timeline call: Aborted.
<aquarius> and I just get an aggrieved look. :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> some of the filtered streams do not.
<davmor2> aquarius, popey: you could turn it into a webapp you guys will know more about it than me but it looks a fairly straight forward .js file
<popey> i dont like webapps
<aquarius> "In order to use TweetDeck you must have a TweetDeck account"
<aquarius> grr.
<popey> Go to your happy place.
<aquarius> I probably could make it a webapp, indeed.
<davmor2> popey: but it would add the integration aquarius requires and I did say you could make not use it as a webapp :P
<aquarius> I think writing shim webapps is a wrong policy, though. I would *like* tweetdeck to support the unity api...
<directhex> unity should just be a webapp, clearly
<bigcalm> Hehe
<aquarius> ok, tweetdeck, that was pretty slick as a signup experience.
<davmor2> aquarius: have you hit nirvana yet?
<aquarius> no.
<aquarius> today is unnirvanaish
<aquarius> today is frustrating and annoying and makes me want to give up on computing.
<TheOpenSourcerer> aquarius: https://twitter.com/opensourcerer/status/344772438216826880/photo/1
<aquarius> screwed by twitter apps, by the chrome team, by php, and by unity. :(
<mgdm> and by crap hosting. :P
<aquarius> TheOpenSourcerer, srsly, hotot won't even sign in :)
<aquarius> mgdm, well, that's the php bit ;)
<TheOpenSourcerer> IT WILL IF YOU CHANGE THE SETTINGS LIKE THE PICTURE
<bigcalm> o.O
<directhex> hotot from ppa works
<directhex> so i'm back on twitter
<davmor2> aquarius: you must have some nirvana in your music collection slap that on it can at least sound like a nirvanaish day :D
<Laney> was there some kind of twitter apocalypse?
<aquarius> Laney, twitter shut off the 1.0 api
<TheOpenSourcerer> API 1.0 became obsolote
<TheOpenSourcerer> s\obsolete
<aquarius> after a year of warning that they were going to do so
<Laney> how unfortunate
<aquarius> TheOpenSourcerer, oh, right, I get it. :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> |o
<aquarius> TheOpenSourcerer, does hotot integrate with ubuntu these days? it never used to
<Laney> sounds like hotot in saucy is good but nobody updated stable releases
<aquarius> I tried all the clients in the archive and they all suck :(
<aquarius> although I am in a mood with the universe today, which might have something to do with it
<TheOpenSourcerer> Hotot is the nicest I have come across in years.
<aquarius> hotot is *pretty*. It doesn't integrate with unity at all, though.
<bigcalm> Is it wrong to be excited by pie?
<aquarius> or it didn't last time I tried it
 * bigcalm counts down the hours to pie
<TheOpenSourcerer> What does "integrate with unity" mean aquarius?
<aquarius> and the qt version is madly broken
<davmor2> bigcalm: you need to join #pie hmmm pie
<bigcalm> Hehe
<MooDoo> davmor2: CAKE!
<bigcalm> T-7ish hours
 * TheOpenSourcerer thinks food...
<aquarius> TheOpenSourcerer, show proper notifications when something happens; place itself in the messaging menu for new messages; display a badge on its Launcher icon.
<bigcalm> DJ Shadow is getting be through the day so far. Not sure what will pick up the afternoon though
<aquarius> *real* integration would also include "use my twitter account which I have already taught Ubuntu about".
<davmor2> MooDoo: only the pieious can appreciate pie, everyone enjoys cake ;)
<TheOpenSourcerer> I get notifications, have a "badge" on the launcher.
<TheOpenSourcerer> not in the messaging menu but I rarely use that anyway
<aquarius> cool
<aquarius> that's a start, then
 * aquarius tries configuring hotot
 * TheOpenSourcerer goes to lunch. Quickly.
<MooDoo> davmor2: apple pie
<davmor2> MooDoo: Bramley apple pie :P
<aquarius> OK, same problem: hotot just goes to a blank grey screen when I click the big "sign in" arrow.
<aquarius> even after making those changes.
 * davmor2 pictures aquarius sat in the dark going ommmmmmmm ommmmmmmmm
<aquarius> let me wipe the config and try again
<aquarius> has not helped
<aquarius> no terminal output
<aquarius> no idea how to enable any debug output, because --help is ignored.
<aquarius> I hate computers. :(
<bigcalm> We all do
<bigcalm> And yet we choose to base our work on them :)
<bigcalm> Sadists, the lot of us
<bigcalm> Or masochist, depending upon your point of view
 * bigcalm whips some JavaScript into shape
<directhex> aquarius, just install hotot from ppa
<aquarius> !!!!!! tweetdeck removes blocked users from your timeline!
<lubotu3> aquarius: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<aquarius> like things are supposed to!
<aquarius> hrm.
<aquarius> lubotu3, shut up.
<aquarius> directhex, yeah, yeah, ppa. I hate ppas :(
<davmor2> aquarius: just use the twitter webapp :D  me ducks for the shelter
<aquarius> on the other hand I am now installing newer polly
<aquarius> since it turns out that there's only *ever* been the unstable and daily ppas
<aquarius> so I must have had it installed from the unstable ppa, which was then disabled on upgrade to raring and I never re-enabled it.
<bigcalm> They don't believe in stability
<bigcalm> aquarius: join us at the Pie Factory tonight. Relax with pie
<bigcalm> And ale, don't forget the ale
 * mgdm is now remembering Weebl and Bob
 * davmor2 waits for the sound of the explosion that is aquarius head when he finds out that polly is using api1.0
<aquarius> davmor2, no, the newer version isn't; that's why I'm upgrading it
<davmor2> aquarius: they only say that to make you upgrade ;)
<aquarius> ok, polly works.
<aquarius> I like tweetdeck, though, popey.
<aquarius> I think I might do the chrome-install-as-app thing, though
<bigcalm> davmor2: Hayley won't be joining us tonight. She's gone to see a school friend for a couple of days
<aquarius> installed as app.
<aquarius> goodbye, polly
<bigcalm> Wish CSS, can one have "text-decoration: line-through" be a different colour from the text?
<aquarius> tweetdeck removing blocked users from my timeline is a winning feature *all by itself*.
<DJones> aquarius: I've been using polly for ages now, that seems to work without any issues
<davmor2> aquarius: Nirvana reached
<aquarius> bigcalm, no. However, you can do it with a nested element.
<bigcalm> aquarius: sucky but doable. Cheers
<aquarius> bigcalm, or with generated content if your lined-through element is block.
<popey> \o/
<bigcalm> aquarius: td
<mgdm> aquarius: I thought that was the entire point of blocked users
<bigcalm> If tr is the outer, td can be the inner, I hope
<aquarius> mgdm, indeed it is. But every twitter client in the universe doesn't remove tweets you've already received from the blocked user. You have to "clear the cache" and then refetch
<mgdm> Ahhh
<mgdm> I've wondered about that recently, having gone on a big unfollowing purge
<aquarius> which screws you completely if you've blocked a lot of recent users, because when you clear the cache and refetch, you don't get any tweets back.
<aquarius> bigcalm, erm...only if you've only got one td inside th tr, right>?
<mgdm> heh
<mgdm> I tend not to block users
<bigcalm> aquarius: about to find out :)
<mgdm> though if I could block all of those *_borat accounts in one shot, I would
<bigcalm> Aww
<davmor2> mgdm: that's easy, you see the button that says logout ;)
<aquarius> bigcalm, my point is: you do <span><span>text here</span></span> and span { color: black; } span span { color: red; text-decoration: line-through }
<aquarius> if you use the tr as your top element, then you'll have to set the base text colour for everything in the tr
<aquarius> actually, no, ignore me, that's stupid, that won't work
<aquarius> other way around
<bigcalm> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/4364263/css-line-through-with-a-color-different-from-the-text-color
<aquarius> span { color: red; text-decoration: line-through; } span span { color: black; }
<aquarius> so... you can do it with tr and td, but you'll have to set empty text decoration on all tds other than the one you care about.
<bigcalm> I'm hoping to just use the tr and td elements that are going to be there anyway
<bigcalm> Indeed
<bigcalm> Which is what I'm doing anyway
<bigcalm> It's a bit of fun this css lark
<BigRedS> you have a peculiar idea of 'fun'
<bigcalm> http://paste.ubuntu.com/5757955/ - I'm sure it could be optimised, but it works. Just by setting .active or .acknowledged on the tr
<bigcalm> It's actually quite readable and yet struck through
<bigcalm> I'm happy :)
 * BigRedS shakes his head at '!important'
<bigcalm> :D
<bigcalm> I didn't want to
<bigcalm> I guess I could just remove the stripped class from the table as it won't be visible anyway
<BigRedS> Haha, it's less its presence in your code that irks me, and more it being in the CSS spec
<AlanBell> it is a "now you have two problems" kind of solution
 * davmor2 just had a weird call with virgin support where I was providing support to the support guy for starting to use ubuntu hmmmmmm different, got my issue resolved too so that was a win :)
<bigcalm> Humm, though once an alarm has been acknowledged, the hover state actually becomes useful
<BigRedS> are you writing a nagios interface?
<bigcalm> Heh, na. I should read up about nagios some day
<BigRedS> haha, you're writing a nagios clone instead? :)
<davmor2> bigcalm: just talk to adam long enough till he does it for you ;)
<bigcalm> BigRedS: oh my no. This system happens to have alarms, that's all :)
<bigcalm> davmor2: I wonder if we'll see Chris with a hair cut tonight
<davmor2> doubt it
<BigRedS> bigcalm: ah, yeah, I forgot there was a huge other selection of things that aren't nagios :)
<BigRedS> I've been avoiding writing an API for our Nagios 1 install for weeks now, but I'm going to have to do it soon so I keep thinking about it
<BigRedS> and, hence, the term 'ack' has nothing to do with tcp in my mind now
<bigcalm> I keep forgetting. In jQuery, how do I select all elements that start with a given string?
<bigcalm> $('#foo_*') ?
<bigcalm> $('tr[id^=foo]')
<bigcalm> Humf. Using jQuery to check/uncheck a checkbox doesn't in turn call onchange from the HTML
<bigcalm> Oooh, people are asking me what I want for my b'day. Time to throw some stuff onto an amazon wishlist
<bigcalm> Would it be wrong to put this on the list? http://www.writeherekitenow.co.uk/acatalog/Sailor-Yosegi-Fountain-Pen.html
<Gary> ooo pricey pens
<bigcalm> Me like fountain pens
<Gary> me too
<bigcalm> The same pen is available on eBay for far less: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SAILOR-HAKONE-YOSEGI-ZAIKU-WOODEN-ART-UNIQUE-FOUNTAIN-PEN-GORGEOUS-COLLECTION-/170995053962?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27d019758a
<Gary> but... my parker was thirty quid and thats enough
<bigcalm> I just don't know if I trust going to eBay for such an item
<bigcalm> Oh, my cheapest pen was about 50 quid I think. But that's me :)
<bigcalm> Tell a like, I have a $20 noodler. But it's pants
<Gary> I'd love to have some nicer ones, but well, ouch
<bigcalm> s/like/lie
<christel> what on earth is a "noodler"
<bigcalm> Noodler is a manufacturer. This is the Ahab: http://www.purepens.co.uk/acatalog/Ahab-Fountain-Pens-.html
<christel> aha
<bigcalm> Of which, I have the Lapis Inferno on that page
<bigcalm> What's special about that pen is the nib is _very_ flexible and allows for a great variance in line width
<redtape|renegade> OT | Here's this weeks blog on science & open source .. [bye for now] http://phylogenomics.blogspot.com/2013/06/better-late-than-never-video-interview.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+TheTreeOfLife+%28The+Tree+of+Life%29&utm_content=My+Yahoo
 * bigcalm scribbles on chrisccoulson
<bigcalm> Oops
 * bigcalm scribbles on christel
<christel> i er... i can't remember when i last used a pen
<christel> :D
<Gary> I have the "Parker Urban Premium Fountain Pen - Ebony" on this page - http://www.purepens.co.uk/acatalog/Parker-Urban-Premium-Fountain-Pens.html
<Gary> it's pretty good
<Gary> christel, I pretty much use it for writing "3/10, must try harder" on company reports
<christel> hehe
<mgdm> the cheapest pen I have is the Bic knockoff I accidentally took home from work
<bigcalm> Oooh, that puts me in mind for a retractable Lamy
<bigcalm> Heh
<RadiumCat> dialog 3?
<RadiumCat> its dead expensive!
<RadiumCat> sorry fpr butting in
<RadiumCat> for*
<mgdm> It's IRC. That's basically what it's for. :-)
<RadiumCat> :)
<bigcalm> Postponing lunch until after 2pm, I have avoided the temptation of going to the chippy. But what will I tempt myself with instead?
<mungbean> cookies
<mungbean> with chips on
<mungbean> and no cookie
<mgdm> and more chips
<bigcalm> I'm going to the pie factory tonight. Trying to save myself
<bigcalm> That and I'm trying to resume my weight loss
<bigcalm> Maybe I'll resume the weight loss tomorrow
 * mgdm got a steak sandwich for lunch and is now in a meat coma
<mungbean> yum
<christel> i just had breakfast, i'm not quite on track today
<bigcalm> Tsk :P
<christel> tsk indeed, i am having serious time management problems lately!
<christel> :)
<bigcalm> I'm not one to speak. I often forget to have lunch
 * bigcalm slithers off to Tesco
<MooDoo> christel: I'm just taking lumch now and I finish work at 4:30
<christel> i am not sure where i went wrong today, i got up at 7, made breakfast+packed lunch for the boys, got them ready, waved them goodbye, got ready and started my work and stressed about a deadline and finally got around to grab a bowl of cereal and a coffee at 1.30
<Monotoko> I finish work at 18:00 :(
 * aquarius , with a depressing sense of inevitability, binds ctrl+shift+u to kill compiz and restart unity. Roll on mir.
<MooDoo> christel: sounds familiar apart from the up at 7 part,  would be a luxury in our house lol
<mungbean> gala has been performing lovely for me, don't miss cimpoz
<christel> MooDoo: aww! the boy wonder is a good sleeper, he has to be woken up every morning (apart from sundays when i let him sleep until he gets up, which is more like 11 o clock)
<christel> i suspect that number 2 will be the complete opposite mind
<mungbean> both my kids are sleeping "OK"
<MooDoo> christel: my wife has to be a at work for 7 so we need everyone up at 6 we feel so bad for waking them up to take them to mamas
<mungbean> if OK is 5.30 start for the youngling
<christel> MooDoo: auchies!
<MooDoo> christel: pain but it's got to be done, what you do for your job?
<AlanBell> aquarius: do you know if mir will be on the desktop in saucy?
<AlanBell> the Mir weekly updates are a bit hard to read
<aquarius> AlanBell, as I understand it, there will be a phone-UI mir-backed session *available* to you. It will not be default, but you can choose to use it instead.
<aquarius> I may be wrong about this, but that's what I believe to be the case.
<christel> MooDoo: i'm a medical translator
<aquarius> popey, is that correct?
<christel> (clinical trial data primarily)
<Gary> christel, did the "other" job not work out for you then?
<MooDoo> ah cool
<popey> yes
<popey> thats the plan
<mungbean> christel: do you use openclinica?
<AlanBell> hmm, so not a desktop UI Mir then?
<aquarius> I certainly plan to use it. my session hangs all the blasted time and I have to restart unity from a virtual console. Hence binding the keystroke.
<popey> how do you mean "desktop UI Mir"?
<christel> Gary: "other" job? :)
<christel> mungbean: no, some of my clients may use it for data capture
<Gary> the one you built the dungeon for
<christel> Gary: i think that was just one of your fantasies dearest
<AlanBell> popey: well I guess one with a sidebar and dash and top panel
<Gary> oh, was it, damnit
<aquarius> AlanBell, again as I understand it, the phone Unity and the desktop Unity are not the same codebase yet; the phone Unity is being moved to Mir for 13.10. By 14.04 they will all be the same codebase hooray, but not by 13.10.
<ali1234> so in other words 14.04 will be a shambles of untested code
<AlanBell> rather than a swipe and move about thing (which is exactly the same as the desktop in marketing only)
<christel> MooDoo: it's not very cool tbf, but i make about the same in two months doing this as i did in a year when working for the nhs so i shan't complain too much :)
<MooDoo> christel: no you shoudln't, need a tea slave?
<christel> i dont drink tea! but if you make a mean cup of coffee...
<aquarius> AlanBell, um, the phone has a sidebar, and a top panel, and a Dash.
<aquarius> in the same places as normal. It's Unity.
<AlanBell> yes, but they move out of the way
<mungbean> glad that the "favourite" for the dr who role may not be the real favourite
<AlanBell> you have to swipe in from outside the screen to see them don't you?
<ali1234> more importantly the phone system can only run Qt applications
<aquarius> No. The top panel is there always, unless an app goes fullscreen, which is exactly the same as desktop Unity.
<ali1234> specifically only QML ones at that
<ali1234> just because it looks the same as desktop unity does not mean it is actually achieving functional convergence
<aquarius> I do not know whether the Launcher will be able to be locked in place; I would hope that it would, certainly. However, this sort of thing is exactly why it's being landed early, and not as the default, so it can be tested.
<aquarius> ali1234, are you looking to contribute here or just shout at me about things?
<AlanBell> well it doesn't look the same, the launcher swipe in and up/down gesture looks completely different to the click an icon desktop launcher
<ali1234> aquarius: i'm not looking to do either
<aquarius> ali1234, xmir is precisely to allow non-QML apps. I do not know whether that'll be available in 13.10; that, again, is precisely why this stuff is arriving at a very early stage in its development.
 * AlanBell is simply trying to figure out if I am going to have Mir on my laptop in this cycle or the next or the one after
<aquarius> AlanBell, perhaps I'm not following you here. The Launcher is a left-hand column full of icon buttons -- that's the same on the phone and the desktop. On the phone you have to swipe to show it, because of screen size -- I would certainly expect that the Launcher shows all the time on a larger screen, although I do not know whether that will be settable in the early version in 13.10. Clicking with a mouse on a
<aquarius> Launcher icon, and tapping with a finger on a  Launcher icon, are the same gesture.
<ali1234> i thought the idea was that this would be finished for 14.04?
<ali1234> you're saying it won't be released until 14.04 - i don't call that "early"
<aquarius> I do not know the details of what's happening here. AlanBell asked about saucy, and I answered.
<ali1234> i call that "at the very last possible opportunity"
<aquarius> it's being released in 13.10, as just explained.
<ali1234> you just said that desktop unity will not be the same codebase until after 13.10
<directhex> by 14.04 i need to have migrated all our staff back away from ubuntu and onto debian :/
<davmor2> AlanBell: the plan is to have mir and unity 8 installable but not the default desktop for pc's, it will be the default on phones/tablets as I understand it
<davmor2> AlanBell: not sure if it got answered I'm still playing catchup
<aquarius> ali1234, right. There are currently differences, which are being reconciled.
<ali1234> i was under the impression that in 14.04 the default desktop will be the same code base as the phone and it will all run on mir
<davmor2> ali1234: indeed that is no saucy thought which was AlanBell 's question :)
<AlanBell> aquarius: ok, I was confused as it looks more like a drag on the phone than a click
<davmor2> s/no/not
<aquarius> AlanBell, you can drag your finger up and down the Launcher on the phone, and in most cases that's the easiest way to do it on the phone, but you are still allowed to just tap on the icon you want, and that's exactly the same with a mouse :)
<AlanBell> ok
<popey> AlanBell: have you played with the phone yet?
 * popey will bring one along when we have lunch
<AlanBell> popey: no, don't think the galaxy s2 port is done
<aquarius> AlanBell, the desktop uses press-and-hold-and-drag-up-and-down as a "rearrange the icons on the Launcher" gesture, rather than as a "select different items" gesture.
<aquarius> AlanBell, but that does not preclude just tapping. :)
<ali1234> you can't edge swipe on a desktop
<davmor2> AlanBell: there is a port for the s2 I think but it might be out of date you are much better off with a phablet flash supported device :)
<ali1234> and that powers nearly everything in the phone
<popey> but the desktop has a keyboard
<popey> so keyboard shortcuts can map to swipe gestures
<AlanBell> indeed, edge swipe was confusing me, but I have only seen marketing videos of it really
<AlanBell> swipe from right is alt-tab I think on the phone
<davmor2> ali1234: you could originally if you remember the launcher autohid on the first release and everyone hated it :P
<AlanBell> or alt+` perhaps
<popey> nah, it didnt autohide, it dodge-hid didn't it?
<ali1234> davmor2: it was not revealed by edge swipe
<AlanBell> or is it old style window switcher alt-tab rather than app switcher
<davmor2> ali1234: it was revealed by going to the edge of a screen with the mouse which is as close as you could get at the time to an edge swipe
<ali1234> it's as close as a PC can ever get
<popey> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Devices/i9100 interesting... galaxy s 2
<AlanBell> yeah, just looking at that now
<AlanBell> no calls :(
<davmor2> popey: ah you are right dodge was the default auto was the secondary
<AlanBell> and the phone isn't using Mir yet?
<popey> not yet
<popey> this week we are switching from raring to saucy on the phone
<popey> and a container flip is happening too
<ali1234> will it still use surface flinger or use the propietary graphics drivers directly?
<popey> then i believe we move to mir
<popey> yes, currently surface flinger
<ali1234> no, after the mir switch?
<popey> oh, sorry, misready.
<popey> -y
<popey> not sure tbh
<ali1234> because if the later it will make porting significantly harder
<popey> the container flip will get us to that mythical "one kernel for everything" that mark talks about a lot
<ali1234> yeah that will also make porting much harder
<ali1234> since all the android drivers and patches everyone relies on to make it work... won't work
<ali1234> basically any advantage gained from libhybris will disappear
<popey> yeah, it's going to be "challenging"
<ali1234> you'll be right back to where porters have been since the start: unable to get open source drivers, unable to make the proprietary ones work in an acceptable way without using an ancient kernel
<directhex> lots of people are amused at the borging of libhybris by canonical
<directhex> especially the wayland devs who wrote it in the first place
<ali1234> "one kernel for everything" isn't really possible on arm anyway, not yet
<ali1234> borging?
<ali1234> also, i wouldn't describe stskeeps as "amused"
<ali1234> quite the opposite really
<ali1234> i am quite worried that the default desktop of the next LTS release will not go through any production testing at all
<ali1234> not because i'll have to use it, but because of what it says about the commitment to quality in the rest of the distro
 * bigcalm returns from Tesco
<bigcalm> Having avoided the chippy, I didn't manage to avoid KFC or buying 12 assorted Krispy Kreme doughnuts from Tesco
 * bigcalm gurgles
 * popey is out for curry tonight
 * brobostigon returns from his liguid lunch
<bigcalm> 1h40m lunch, whoopsie
<bigcalm> I'd feel bad if I didn't work all hours
<mungbean> i was missold PPI back in 1999, do i still have case?
<bigcalm> http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=2220395
<bigcalm> 14 years ago, might be pushing it, but good luck
<mungbean> i got made redundant , and they didn't pay
<mungbean> which was the point of the PPI
<neuro> anyone know who Peter Cannon is?
<mungbean> an explosive character
<neuro> seriously
<BigRedS> hohoho
<mungbean> Peter H. Cannon (b. 1951 in California) is an H. P. Lovecraft scholar and an author of Cthulhu Mythos fiction
<mungbean> that one?
<neuro> *sigh*
<neuro> :)
<neuro> i got a linkedin ping from them
<mungbean> http://www.cannon-linux.co.uk/
<mungbean> Iâm currently a member of a number of Linux based mailing lists and Forums and can be found on freenode.net I am Married with twin daughters.
<mungbean> maybe on here right now
<neuro> i kind of assumed they'd be in here, but it would have been nice to get told what their nick was
<davmor2> neuro: Look at tdtrs
<neuro> this is why blasting out automated linkedin connect requests annoys me
<neuro> tdtrs?
<davmor2> neuro: the dick turpin road show
<neuro> doesn't really make me any the wiser, but ta :)
<davmor2> neuro: he will be in the #tdtrs channel as dick_turpin
<neuro> ah ok
<neuro> guess that means i don't know them
<davmor2> neuro: he was a helper at LRL's a part time member of wolves lug
<neuro> *reject*
<bigcalm> :D
<neuro> nothing personal
<neuro> i just don't connect to people i don't know on facebook or linkedin
<popey> how can you not know Peter Cannon? â»
<neuro> maybe i just haven't been looking closely enough
<neuro> i don't know *everyone* in the whole community :)
<dwatkins> I get loads of random requests on Facebook, it strikes me as a strange way to try and meet people.
<davmor2> how I wish I was neuro right now :D
<neuro> lol
<popey> hah
<ali1234> i get random linked in requests all the time
<ali1234> i just assumed they are spammers
<ali1234> same on g+
<ali1234> i don't even check facebook any more
 * popey deleted his linkedin account
<neuro> i usually look at the profile if they're not blatantly spamming or recruiting
<popey> much better
<neuro> hehe
<davmor2> popey: Pete is currently going out of his way to wind me up at the moment so I've taken to ignoring him for now :)
<neuro> it's damn useful when you're job hunting
<ali1234> yeah they're usually not blatant at all
<neuro> which i was for the bulk of the last year
<popey> yeah, sabdfl looked me up on linkedin ã
<ali1234> i figure they are just trying to create legit looking accounts and the spamming will come later
 * neuro hugs his new job
<SuperMatt> I got asked by a recruiter once why I wasn't on linked in.
<SuperMatt> I responsed with "did you see the news today?"
<SuperMatt> "yup"
<neuro> did you tell them "go away, recruiter scum"
<neuro> oh was this just after the breach
<SuperMatt> "They've been hacked. I'm not going linked in any time soon"
<neuro> and were they like "they've been WHAT?!"
<ali1234> people keep recommending me on linked in for stuff i have no idea about
<ali1234> someone recommended me for "microsoft office and excel"
<neuro> I CAN DO THAT
<mungbean> linkedin is lame and a privacy issue but somehow most of us accept it
<mgdm> I recommended someone I know for 'Pies'
<neuro> I CAN DO MICROSOFT
<neuro> lol, class
<ali1234> well yeah.
<mgdm> since then 4 others have followed suit
<SuperMatt> linked in is also no good for people like me. I do Linux. My knowledge speaks for itself.
<neuro> we should recommend everyone we know for various foodstuffs
<mgdm> SuperMatt: I don't follow the logic there, but suit yourself :-)
<neuro> mgdm: dammit, did you remove the pie recommendations?
<SuperMatt> well... linked in is for people who need to rely on word of mouth for proof of their compitence.
<neuro> i was going to add another for you :)
<mungbean> SuperMatt: my ex-PHB pre-judged people by the quality of their linked prof
<mungbean> good profile = great guy
<neuro> SuperMatt: it's just a glorified CV, do you not do CVs either?
<ali1234> SuperMatt: i don't see your point. do you have certifications then?
<SuperMatt> I do
<SuperMatt> I'm an RHCSA
<neuro> oh dear :)
<neuro> BEGONE, HEATHEN!
<ali1234> oh.
<SuperMatt> hahaha
<ali1234> well, personally i don't think much of certifications
<neuro> me either
<SuperMatt> I think a lot of them if they actually do mean something
<ali1234> given what they cost, and what the example tests look like
<mungbean> rhce is worthwhile
<neuro> i've managed to get by on an NT4 MCSE and a heavily discounted LPIC-1 from 2004
<ali1234> i can only speak for the ubuntu ones cos those are the only ones i looked at
<SuperMatt> I was the only person at my last place to pass their RHCSA, and I'd used linux the least
<mungbean> as a baseline for linux admins
<ali1234> but it basically looks like "keep paying until you pass the test"
<mungbean> yes, i like to ask how many times they took it
<neuro> mungbean: s/linux/SysV/
<SuperMatt> first time baby!
<mungbean> it's not a hard test, really
<SuperMatt> I passed by 1 mark out of 300
<mungbean> but i experienced a "bug"/weird issue
<SuperMatt> 270 is the pass mark
<SuperMatt> no wait
<SuperMatt> 210
<mungbean> and lost 20 mins on it
<SuperMatt> and I got 211
<ali1234> are there certs for developers?
<ali1234> other than microsoft ones that is
<mungbean> github
<ali1234> github?
<neuro> github
<SuperMatt> I'm not sure how that'd wotk though, considering there are a number of languages
<ali1234> well it would probably be like for Qt
<mungbean> developers need a portfoilo of work
<SuperMatt> I could chose to code entirely in whitespace
<ali1234> or something like that
<mgdm> neuro: No - I endorsed someone else for it, not sure you'd know them - though I have been endorsed for 'whisky', myself :-)
<mungbean> sysadmins need experience or proven ability
<ali1234> if you have a portfolio of work but can't show it to anyone, then linked in recommendations from clients are pretty good
<neuro> developers can't always demonstrate a portfolio of work
<neuro> for sysadmins it's even harder
<mgdm> Word of mouth is not a bad way to have your competence proven, I don't think
<neuro> "yeah sure you can ssh into the cluster to check out my work, oh wait, i don't work there"
<mgdm> if people say you're good at your job, that counts for something, surely
<SuperMatt> it does
<ali1234> well it depends who those people are of course
<ali1234> if they have huge linked in profiles with a tonne of recommendations too, then that's all well and good
<SuperMatt> here's the other thing: no *other* sysadmin I know uses linked in
<neuro> "yeah sure look at my ops scripts and recipes on github, oh wait, they're in a private organisation's repos"
<mungbean> what if you left because they didn't appreciate good work
<neuro> SuperMatt: i know plenty of sysadmins who use linkedin
<SuperMatt> I don't :S
 * mungbean does but isn't sure why
<ali1234> i should probaby do something with my linked in profile
<neuro> if you think it's going to be useful to you, then do
<neuro> if you can't see the point, then do a popey and delete it
<ali1234> thing is, i can see the point, i just hate writing stuff about myself
<neuro> have fun with it
<mungbean> i have a good CV but nothing comes of it on the offchance
<SuperMatt> but surely other people write about you?
<ali1234> fun?
<mungbean> you still have to put yourself out there
<SuperMatt> I thought that was the idea of linked in
<SuperMatt> oh right
<mungbean> well i get a couple of requestss from agencies occasionally
<mungbean> sometimes they are off the mark
<mungbean> i.e network admin
<neuro> i had some fun with mine: http://uk.linkedin.com/in/neuro/
<mungbean> they are just spamming people who appeared in the search results
<neuro> i've had quite a few positive comments about going that way
<SuperMatt> vanity urls + professional site != good idea
<neuro> i just haven't updated it in a while
<neuro> "vanity urls"?
<SuperMatt> the neuro part of the url
<neuro> at Linden Lab, almost everyone from the receiptionist to the CEO called me neuro
<SuperMatt> because I can imagine someone putting down something like "butthunter1983"
<neuro> well that's their own problem
<SuperMatt> yarr
<ali1234> you worked at linden?
<SuperMatt> many people aren't very intelligent
<mungbean> i read the line as one from a song "i'm a lover, i'm a freak, i'm a sysadmin, i'm a geek"
<neuro> ali1234: yup
<neuro> ali1234: that's why i said it :)
<ali1234> i never "got" SL but technically it's pretty cool
<neuro> it is
<neuro> i never got it either to be honest
<neuro> but Rosedale's vision was pretty compelling
<neuro> and it was a fantastic environment to work in
<ali1234> if only they had made everything out of cubes instead of that crazy modelling system...
<neuro> everything does start with a cube at some point
<neuro> but the model system in place now is pretty advanced
<ali1234> i was refering to minecraft, which is far far easier for people to pick up and build with
<neuro> oic
<neuro> well only if you're in the sandbox mode where you have ALL THE THINGS to start with
<neuro> and it's a different ecosystem entirely
<ali1234> i'm not sure it is - for the users
<neuro> can you easily buy Stuff in minecraft?
<ali1234> hmm... someone made minecraft with bitcoin economy actually
<neuro> "someone" :)
<neuro> that sounds trustworthy
<neuro> also by default you don't get eaten at night in SL
<mungbean> scientific linux?
<mungbean> sausage land?
<neuro> my first "night" in SL, I was admiring the stars and flying around loving it
<neuro> mungbean: Second Life, you mung
<mungbean> ah, is that still going?
<neuro> after my first "night" in minecraft, I had to change my underwear
<mungbean> because you had been playing for 14hrs straight
<neuro> mungbean: yup
<directhex> i'm not creative enough to come up with my own grand projects in minecraft
<ali1234> "sausage land" isn't that far from the truth :)
<neuro> well ...
<directhex> Second Yiff
<neuro> let's not go down this road :)
<directhex> as a mono maintainer, i approve of SL
<neuro> Babbage Linden would approve
<neuro> if he still worked there
<neuro> he's a mental Facebooker now
<Monotoko> you can fly in SL?
<neuro> um, yeah
<neuro> although i used to go old school and use a Huey
<neuro> http://www.flickr.com/photos/neuro/2964750477/
<shrik> does anyone use liferea?
<MartijnVdS> Is that still a thing?
<daftykins> hrmm what would you do with a spare SSD?
<daftykins> i got given a 128GB mSATA SSD
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: stress-test
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: swap
<daftykins> i've already got ones as my OS drive in all bar my file server
<DJones> daftykins: Donate it to me :)
<daftykins> and i'm not sure a file server would benefit from one :D
<daftykins> DJones: i don't even know you :(
<DJones> Ah well, worth a try
<daftykins> :D
<ali1234> i would send it to me
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: that would be an expensive way to give it to yourself
<daftykins> XD
<ali1234> i would put it in an external case probably
<ali1234> probably easier to just buy a 128mb flashdrive tho
<ali1234> *gb
<daftykins> this is what i'm thinking
<awilkins> My largest SSD sits in a SATA caddy and carries my work environemtn
<daftykins> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/mSATA-SSD-External-Drive-USB-3-0-Case-/290874851829?pt=US_Drive_Enclosures_Docks&hash=item43b97e01f5
<ali1234> i don't like carrying around hard drives, they break too easily
<awilkins> Boot it from eSATA at work, carry it home and put it in the 5 1/4 inch bay and mount the volume at home
<daftykins> not quite the cheapest and from the US, but it seems fun
<awilkins> Definitely more robust than spinning rust
<awilkins> Went through 2 or 3 2.5" hard drives before I got an SSD because I was frustrated with them breaking
<daftykins> heh - in a laptop?
<MartijnVdS> I wish PCI floppy controllers existed
<awilkins> Nah, external cases
<MartijnVdS> so I could put my 5.25" floppy drive in my Haswell PC
<daftykins> ah
<awilkins> Spinning rust also kept burning out the controllers in the external cases
<awilkins> SSDs have much lower power requirements, the controllers last
<daftykins> i keep a 3.5" floppy drive in my server. i use it to infrequently i have to do several reads before it remagnetises - or whatever happens that it takes a while to work
<awilkins> Kept getting to the point where the drive would spin up, stop, spin up, stop. New case, problem fixed.
<daftykins> yeah i keep getting that
<awilkins> MartijnVdS, You can get USB floppies
<daftykins> you hear the repeated click-click of the HDDs trying to power up
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: not 5.25"
<ali1234> i have a usb floppy
<awilkins> MartijnVdS, Ah, true
<ali1234> it sucks. if the disk has 1 bad sector it won't read it at all
<awilkins> Floppies are awful
<ali1234> yes, they are. but with a real floppy drive you can recover the data
<awilkins> I can't believe they still issue USB floppy drives with the laptops at work
<daftykins> !
<ali1234> floppies are basically just hard drives with removable platters anyway
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: some countries still accept tax forms/something on 3.5" disks
<daftykins> is there anyone in here that doesn't know that? :)
<daftykins> the only thing i was using it for last was older Windows' setup methods that required RAID controller drivers, though i moved on to just modifying the ISO to integrate them \o/
<awilkins> Yeah, I ended up doing that
<daftykins> that was for Server 2003
<awilkins> Just used nLite to re-roll the installer with the OEM drivers
<daftykins> :)
<awilkins> Much more convenient
<daftykins> indeed
<daftykins> hmm Â£27 for a USB3 enclosure seems a rip-off to me
<awilkins> Linux is of course another story ; things usually just wokr
<mgdm> vim index.php
<daftykins> and i'm not 100% sure that most computers with off-chipset USB 3 will allow an OS to boot properly
<mgdm> *ahem*
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: \o/ at least 8 on-chipset USB 3 ports ;)
<daftykins> is that how many yours has?
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: I think so, yess
<daftykins> i've only a laptop with USB3 and that uses an external chip
<daftykins> couldn't install Windows 7 from it, for example
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: I have http://www.gigabyte.com/products/product-page.aspx?pid=4514#ov
<daftykins> i think you can, you just have to integrate drivers
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: ah it's 6 + 1 on top of the case
<daftykins> even with #overview or #ov deleted that link doesn't work
<daftykins> but tbh i know you have fancy new kit ;) it's getting old now! :D
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: GA-Z87X-OC
<MartijnVdS> "10 USB 3.0 ports"
<daftykins> heh
<daftykins> the build i did for my mate still came with PS/2 ports :O
<MartijnVdS> Either I can't count, or I haven't connected all the ones that aren't on the back panel
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: yeah this one has a PS/2 port as well
<MartijnVdS> No idea why
<awilkins> So you can use your Model M
<awilkins> I mean, you do have a Model M, right? All self-respecting geeks have a Model M
<directhex> model m sucks.
 * awilkins beats directhex to death with his Model M and keeps right on typing after
<mgdm> I can't stand 'em
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: I have a Microsoft keyboard. So it's Model MS
<daftykins> don't get me wrong, i prefer PS/2 to USB still
<mgdm> Clacky uncomfy nonsense
<directhex> it's a meme. the controller circuitry is terrible, and you can get a similar key action on a modern keyboard with modern buttons from cherry mx green switches
<daftykins> sadly i had to give in to USB as i use a das keyboard
<awilkins> I have a Cherry G80-3000 at work
<awilkins> Clickity switches
<awilkins> (think they are blacks, not sure)
<awilkins> Still love my Model M
<directhex> blacks are not clicky
<awilkins> It's very old, not sure what colour the switches are
<awilkins> But they are clickity ones
<directhex> the common clicky switch is the blue
<awilkins> Next time I pry off a keycap I'll see what colour they are
<directhex> wife's keyboard is incredible
<awilkins> The Cherry is more civilized for work, but people still do mention it's noise
<directhex> such nice engineering
<awilkins> The Model M causes .. comments.. on conference calls
<awilkins> Because it's the M60 of keyboards, with it's rattleclack of inevitability
<daftykins> directhex: you're simply going to have to get another for yourself! perhaps this is her plan for your birthday? ;)
<mungbean> i gave a cherry keyboard to my dad with a penguin/tux super key
<daftykins> my das kinda annoyed a friend over game voice chat once
<directhex> daftykins, i try not to be overly derrivative. plus, there are other things i need
<daftykins> playing portal 2 ;x
<directhex> mungbean, i had one of those once
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: is portal 2 out on Linux?!
<awilkins> I bought a G80-3000 for my mother and her finger arthritis cleared right up
<daftykins> MartijnVdS: i don't run desktop Linux.
<mungbean> heathen
<mungbean> :)
<awilkins> She was a legal secretary, can't believe they foist those POS rubber membrane keyboards on professional typists
<daftykins> mungbean: i'm disappointed in you
<mungbean> isn't that what i'm supposed to say?:
<daftykins> only if we're standing in a playground, i'd expect
<mungbean> i only just started watching the inbetweeners incidentally
<mungbean> hilarious, and i have 3 series to catch up on
<daftykins> not seen
<awilkins> It's amusing but childish, just like it's characters :-)
<mungbean> yeah
<mungbean> typical boy banter
<daftykins> that's the English one i take it? British prog
<daftykins> i tend to avoid anything that comes under that category
<mungbean> which category? childish humour?
<mungbean> me too, which is how i got to series 3 until i realised its really funny
<daftykins> British TV
<^aDaM-iPad> Hey daftykins
<^aDaM-iPad> :-)
<mungbean> i hate all those naff "pint of lager, packet of crisps" type stuff
<daftykins> 'lo
<^aDaM-iPad> Mmm in a hoteal an they say there is WiFi but can not  pick it up :/
<^aDaM-iPad> hotel*
<daftykins> maybe it's in designated spots only
<MartijnVdS> sometimes it's only in the lobby
<^aDaM-iPad> yeah i think it is in bar etc...
<MartijnVdS> or you can complain at the front desk :)
<^aDaM-iPad> not in rooms
<^aDaM-iPad> lol good idea
<MartijnVdS> ^aDaM-iPad: if it's in the Netherlands, tell me the name of the hotel and I might just go out and send them an offer to install a proper wifi network
<daftykins> has it got wired in the rooms? :D
<^aDaM-iPad> sell the electrics have a problem in my home so landlord paying off a hotel lol an refunding 2 days rent so not complaining .....
<^aDaM-iPad> can i trust the contractors tho mmm good job i took immolent stuff.
<daftykins> :O not bad at all
<^aDaM-iPad> lol
<^aDaM-iPad> its in the UK sorry MartijnVdS
<^aDaM-iPad> need to jail brake my pad its boring lol.... can i put ubuntu on it or linux of some sort :/
<daftykins> nah
<^aDaM-iPad> an that sucks
<^aDaM-iPad> ah*
<diddledan> ios 7 is nearly here, anywho :-p
<brobostigon> i could put bunty on my nexus7, :)
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: popey would hug you, probably, if you did
<^aDaM-iPad> brobostigon, , thats lucky for you ;)
<daftykins> i still don't know what tablets are useful for
<^aDaM-iPad> ah nice diddledan  :)
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: lol, ummm,
<^aDaM-iPad> diddledan, , whats new in OS Â£ ??
<brobostigon> ^aDaM-iPad: not that i have.
<^aDaM-iPad> 7*
<^aDaM-iPad> brobostigon, try itvout
<brobostigon> daftykins: in bed stuff, not requiring laptop or netbook,
<diddledan> ^aDaM-iPad: a brand new ui mostly, some more multitasking abillities, keychain in safari for passwords.. erm..
<diddledan> brobostigon: pr0n?
<^aDaM-iPad> niceee
<^aDaM-iPad> hahaahha brobostigon
<brobostigon> ^aDaM-iPad: maybe, sometime, when/is i have enother i can afford to risk breaking.
<brobostigon> diddledan: haha
<^aDaM-iPad> yes true i should not jailbrake this and brake itneitherlol
<daftykins> jailbreak sir, braking is what cars do :D
<^aDaM-iPad> lo
<^aDaM-iPad> haa
<^aDaM-iPad> i did my iphone but restored kt
<^aDaM-iPad> sucksto type on pads
<^aDaM-iPad> l
<daftykins> i see Apple have now released the outfit that goes with iOS 7
<daftykins> http://24.media.tumblr.com/4977860951d45bd054277f33654565a4/tumblr_mo8mlqt4CT1svn1xeo1_500.jpg
<diddledan> anybody for some sharp sticks I can poke into my eyes to try to recover from seeing that image?!
<diddledan> have**
<^aDaM-iPad> lool daftykins
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: http://www.eyebleach.com/ ?
<^aDaM-iPad> loool
<^aDaM-iPad> hahhaahash
<shauno> odd, the icons don't seem anywhere near that neon on mine
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> nice
<^aDaM-iPad> wantca lick of her lolly pop lol
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BrainBleach
<daftykins> i thought we'd all become immune long ago since we first got internet access? :)
<diddledan> internet access doesn't necessarily mean seeing evil
<czajkowski> popey: Laney http://www.breakingnews.ie/discover/video-rare-two-faced-kitten-born-in-oregon-597270.html
<daftykins> i sense this shall creep me out
<mungbean> i've learnt than in life we must exercise the right not to click
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: ah, Article 1 of the Internet Constitution
<mungbean> i saw giatse by accident for a mere 0.2s and it is imprinted on my retina forever
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: http://bash.org/?15
<mungbean> is that an ascii art of goatse?
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: no, it's not.
<diddledan> I still have tubgirl imprinted on my retina
<mungbean> never saw
<diddledan> thank god you didn't
<daftykins> the trick is to be disillusioned
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: lemon party?
<diddledan> missed that one
<daftykins> also seen
<diddledan> I'm sure shauno has plenty of these tucked away to inflict on the unwary
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: always fun around elections.. "Tired of the old candidates? Try the lemon party <link>"
<mungbean> reddit can be evil sometimes at telling/showing stuff. i fear for kids today
<daftykins> reddit is too full of pseudo-intellectualism
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: no that's hackernews/ycombinator
<daftykins> people are considered clever because they can concoct a briefly amusing image
<daftykins> i've no experience with either of those
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: news.ycombinator.com = "hacker news", it's reddit-ish, but lots of elitism
<daftykins> i've only ever seen reddit when i've been linked
<mungbean> some subreddits are good
<daftykins> too much of a time wasting contraption
<mungbean> non default ones
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: the smaller ones have a better signal-to-noise ratio
<mungbean> yeah.
<MartijnVdS> and you learn which links not to click fast enough
<mungbean> mildlyinteresting is a good one
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: /r/gallifrey :)
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: /r/lolphp as well
<silner> Curious fact. The version of Pidgin that comes with Mint is primed to join the Ubuntu servers rather than Mint's
<jacobw> silner: You mean Freenode?
<MartijnVdS> jacobw: probably the Ubuntu IRC channels
<MartijnVdS> not #mint or whatever they use
<silner> Well yeah, but it actually uses the alias irc.ubuntu.com to do it
<jacobw> CNAME to chat.freenode.net :)
<silner> The dedicated apps like irssi and xchat go to Mint. I guess it's an oversight
 * brobostigon slurps franziskaner
<silner> Pidgin doesn't join any channels by default MartijnVdS
<brobostigon> neither does irssi, last i looked.
<silner> brobostigon: No it doesn't but it does go to the mint server, which isn't Freenode IRRC
<brobostigon> silner: ah ok. i would no have known, mostly being a debianite.
<jacobw> brobostigon: yummy
<brobostigon> jacobw: oh yes, :D
<jacobw> brobostigon: Checkout The Bavarian Beerhouse in EC3 next time in you're in London
<brobostigon> jacobw: i havent been in london in almost 4 years, only been twice.
<jacobw> brobostigon: Have you been to Bavaria recently?
<silner> Mint uses irc.spotchat.org - I have no idea why they eschew Freenode, but then: don't Debian have their own server? OFTC or something? I have used Debian Desktop in a while
<MartijnVdS> jacobw: http://www.appiehein.com/2265-2004-thickbox/bavaria-premium-beer.jpg
<jacobw> :D
<brobostigon> jacobw: last time, around 15/16 years ago,
<brobostigon> jacobw: 14/15/16*
<jacobw> :)
<silner> I wanted to make a suggestion for the Ubuntu Devs but I want to run it here so you can tell me any obvious reasons it wouldn't work. I set up a new printer recently and found the driver on Openprinting, but I got to wondering: why doesn't Ubuntu have a ready made set of ppas for obvious drivers, to make it smoother for new users?
<MartijnVdS> silner: I think it auto-installs openprinting drivers, actually
<silner> Ah OK. Well for some reason that didn't work for me, but the Deb on Open printing did. I was probably unlucky
<brobostigon> jacobw: it was on my way back from kur in davos, for treatment for my eczema, when we lived in germany.
<jacobw> brobostigon: When did you live in Germany?
<brobostigon> jacobw: 92 till 2000.
<jacobw> Long tiem
<brobostigon> yes, when my dad worked there.
<jacobw> Cool
<brobostigon> that depends on your view.
<brobostigon> the german health system, paying for me to go to davos for 6 weeks, is an upside.
<MartijnVdS> Paid to go to Davros? So.. you're a Dalek now?
<MartijnVdS> oh.. Davos, oops
<silner> MartijnVdS: I bet it's cos I set it up over a network. I guess the autoinstall depends on USB connectivity. I'll remember that in future. Though I'd have to buy an A-B cable. I have used one in a while :)
<silner> have=haven't
<jacobw> The German health system is great, IMO.
<brobostigon> jacobw: shame it is private, but still.
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: :)
<silner> Germany has no public health system?
<jacobw> Lies
<brobostigon> not that it used to be, might have changed.
<jlphillips> I am running Ubuntu 12.04 LTS. I get audio from a bluetooth device but not from the built-in audio. Any help?
<^aDaM-iPad> jlphillips, sounds like a sound driver issue to be or maybe you need to configure it :-)
<diddledan> possibly it's set to output digital atm
<jlphillips> It's set to digital output (s/pdif). In alsamixer, the s/pdif is set to 00, and I cannot turn it up.
<^aDaM-iPad> I always have sound issue on ubuntu with my on-board sound :(
<^aDaM-iPad> My USB headsphone never work on 13.04
<jlphillips> ^aDaM, do you get sound from headphones?
<diddledan> if you're trying headphones then you'll want it set to analogue output not spdif
<^aDaM-iPad> not on 13.04 no some things work like VLC, YouTube but any games it doesnt.
<jlphillips> My headphones work, just not the computer's speakers.
<^aDaM-iPad> I havent tried any jacks in mine lol just USB headphones.
<^aDaM-iPad> Must try to see never had problems with using speakers.
<diddledan> if it's a laptop or if your speakers are connected with anything other than optical then you want it set to analogue
<jlphillips> It's the built-in speakers on my laptop, not external speakers.
<directhex> s/pdif is optical out
<jlphillips> Yeah. I figured out I'm set to PCM, not s/pdif
<ali1234> is there a simple command line tool that will watch for changes to specific files and then run a command?
<ali1234> eg: watch *.c -exec make
<ali1234> pretty self explanatory
<mgdm> inotifywatch, or something like that
<mgdm> http://linux.die.net/man/1/inotifywatch
<ali1234> doesn't seem to have an -exec option but i can probably do something with inotifywait and a loop with a sleep
<mgdm> ali1234: slide 31 in https://speakerdeck.com/rowan_m/building-better-developers
<ali1234> yes exactly
<ali1234> and i will add a notify-osd "it's done" too since make takes a while
<ali1234> i'm not actually building c files, i'm converting xcf to png textures
<ali1234> hmm what exactly does && do in that context?
<ali1234> oh it breaks the line, i see
<mgdm> it means if the previous thing was successful then do the next thing
<ali1234> yeah i know but the line breaks confused me
<mgdm> ah
<ali1234> normally i would put a \ even if it's not needed
<ali1234> while true; do inotifywait *.xcf && make && notify-send "Textures generated"; done
<ali1234> awesome
<ali1234> now i don't have to click "export" in gimp, just ctrl-s and it's done
<mgdm> it's a handy trick
<ali1234> also, an ideal use for notifications :)
<mgdm> on the Mac I occasionally use the 'say' command for that
<mgdm> do slowThing && say "Done it"
<NET||abuse> hi folks,
<ali1234> hmm i need a sleep in there, otherwise it runs make before gimp finishes writing the file, and generates corrupted output
<NET||abuse> i just updated 12.10 to 13.04, all is well,,,, almost.. i have no desktop decorators. and no unity bar on the left or dock up top
<dogmatic69> anyone know where I can check hardware compatibility (for http://www.amazon.co.uk/Nvidia-GTX550Ti-192-Bit-Ready-Graphics/dp/B004S5CCP4)
<NET||abuse> or rather, I have nvidia drivers all installed and good, but i've no desktop window decorators, and i guess i correct myself, the dock is the thing on the left, what's the menu bar up top called then?
<ali1234> dogmatic69: the nvidia readme has a list of supported cards, which is nearly all cards obviously
<ali1234> http://nouveau.freedesktop.org/wiki/FeatureMatrix/ for nouveau
<dogmatic69> ali1234: thanks, where is the readme
<ali1234> http://us.download.nvidia.com/XFree86/Linux-x86/310.19/README/index.html
<NET||abuse> ok, so i was trying the nvidia 313 driver, will downgrade to 310 and see what happens.
<ali1234> see appendix A
<ali1234> NET||abuse: i wasn't refering to your problem at all
<dogmatic69> bah, no SLI :/
<ali1234> i have no idea about unity bugs
<NET||abuse> ali1234: oh i know, I just realised myself that 313 maybe isn't very stable, specially for an NVS card.
<NET||abuse> :) thanks anyway though.
<ali1234> NET||abuse: for your side question: http://askubuntu.com/questions/10228/whats-the-right-terminology-for-unitys-ui-elements
<NET||abuse> ali1234: lol,, nice one :)
<NET||abuse> 310 didn't work either.. trying completely mad thing, compile 319 :)
<NET||abuse> I had optimus turned off in bios, forgot about that.. lets see if it's good or really not good :P
<NET||abuse> optimus seems to be a big no..
<NET||abuse> trying one more without optimus.. but might not be driver bug, might just be unity in the end.
<NET||abuse> so, driver seems to work ok.. but unity elements dont show up. no launcher or menu bar
<NET||abuse> though i doo seem to have window decorators on my terminal now.
<NET||abuse> ok, how can i try to kick unity and get it to reload?
<NET||abuse> on command line if i run "unity" I get errors    compiz (decor) - Warn: No default decoration found, placement will not be correct
<NET||abuse> yay, solved,,
<NET||abuse> ccsm re-enable unity plugin, override gnome compatability key shortcuts
#ubuntu-uk 2013-06-13
<gaz1069> hi
<MooDoo> morning all
<diplo> Morning all
<knightwise> hey MooDoo diplo !
<MooDoo> knightwise: huly :D
<MooDoo> hullo even
<knightwise> Hollah !
<knightwise> how are you guys today
<Myrtti> should I go and buy some Angry Birds mugs, they're on sale today at the local supermarket
<Myrtti> https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-DytAWKqeOsQ/UbhZa-PSYPI/AAAAAAAAGvU/zPvPs9IRoX0/w1278-h959-no/2013-06-12
<Myrtti> opinions?
<diplo> I'd like some for my kids Myrtti, always so expensive!
<Myrtti> diplo: yeah well these are made by the Finnish equivalent of Spode or Wedgwood... they make a lot of collectible stuff, Moomin mugs are even more expensive and regularly stolen from the shops http://www.arabia.fi/web/Arabiawww.nsf/en/tableware_moomin_collection_parts_and_colours_mugs
<diplo> Oh I like those!
 * diplo saves some money
<Myrtti> http://www.skandium.com/shop/kitchen-tableware/moomin-collection
 * diplo saves quite a bit of money :D
<christel> diplo: i dont think it is considered "saving" just because you dont buy expensive mugs you wouldnt have bought anyway...
<christel> i purchased some lovely chairs that were on offer and decided that i had saved the 1800 quid they were reduced by... and could therefore spend that on something more fun but people kept telling me it didnt work like that :(
<diplo> No saving to buy them in the first place, not a very rich man :)
<DJones> Morning all
<MooDoo> morning DJones
<DJones> Heya MooDoo
<hd5770> hey hey
<mungbean> got approached by the usual tramp in bethnal green asking for money, but money he had a massive gash on his arm and blood covered entire forarm and hand.
<mungbean> something about a taxi fare to hospital
<mungbean> on this occasion i hope he spent the money
<mungbean> on a cab
<hd5770> prob just phoned 999 and got a free list
<dwatkins> why take a taxi to hospital when there are ambulances?
<christel> :o
<dwatkins> (admittedly, I took a taxi to hospital when I smashed my ankle, but I knew I wasn't an emergency, and didn't want to take an ambulance away from saving someone's life, potentially)
<mungbean> answered the question dwatkins
<christel> i would have hoped most people would do like you and opt for a taxi if it wasnt a proper emergency ;)
<mungbean> ambulances are mobile parademic units
<christel> considering that it is supposedly rather costly in tax payer money to call out an ambulance :)
<mungbean> i didn't really weigh up the pros and cons since i would have ended up not giving him anything
<mungbean> on those occasions sometimes its good to swallow pride and err on the side of compassion
<mungbean> if i got ripped off, then well he's less fortuante than me anyway
<czajkowski> peeka boo
<dwatkins> I'm still unsure about people begging for money - I give money to Shelter so they have help available, and there's all kinds of stuff possible, but I imagine they fall through the cracks in the system sometimes.
<mungbean> this wasn't really begging (possibly)
<mungbean> because his arm was dripping with blood
<mungbean> it may be he's an alcoholic and broke it on a bottle cos he wants a drink
<christel> dwatkins: i think it is sad that some people are in a position where they end up on the streets, i also think it is sad that some people allegedly beg because you can make "decent money" from it (and then go home to a nice warm bed at the end of the day) -- i also know that i cant help all of them, certainly not long term and like you i tend to prefer to give to charities instead where i can
<popey> in Spain when my dad was ill, and they called an ambulance, the ambulance drives to the doctors house first to pick him up, then picks up a nurse, then comes to you
<christel> it always saddened me when i still worked for the nhs to see how many of our patients ended up on the streets soon after being discharged
<mungbean> when i was at uni there was a destructive kid in the flat next door who usually punched a window or door and had an ambulance sent out every friday night
<mungbean> annoyed me no end
<mungbean> cos they can't really say no
<mungbean> those "doctors in ayia napia" programmes are depressing
<mungbean> having to care for drunken eejits
<popey> heh, i was one of those once, not my fault and not drunk
<popey> someone lobbed a beer mat at me, hit my eye
<popey> unbelievably painful
<christel> ow.
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps
<brobostigon> morning bigcalm
<bigcalm> Hi brobostigon
<bigcalm> Anybody with Android finding that calendar items aren't being synced recently?
<bigcalm> Just added an item to a calendar via the web interface. Thunderbird shows the item, phone doesn't
<brobostigon> i have not noticed that, but a friend of mine did mention a possible issue over the weekend.
<popey> didnt google switch off calendar sync?
<bigcalm> For Android as well? That seems somewhat dumb
<popey> dunno
<brobostigon> calendar sync is still showing in androids sync settings, aswell as, within androids calendar app.
<bigcalm> I've just unticked/forced sync/reticked calendar for the account. Maybe it'll behave now
<bigcalm> "select an user" sounds horrible in my ears and yet it's grammatically correct. Damn you English language!
<bigcalm> It sounds as though one is selecting a user called Ann
<NET||abuse> hmm, guake on 13.04 seems to be offset at the top too much
<brobostigon> wouldnt, "select a user" be better ?
<NET||abuse> gotta say, did inplace upgrade of 12.10 to 13.04, and for the most part, worked,
<bigcalm> brobostigon: it would be, except that it's always 'an' when the next work begins with a vowel
<NET||abuse> except the kernel didn't install at first, cause /boot partition ran out of space
<JamesTait> bigcalm, not true.
<NET||abuse> had to fix that :P
<bigcalm> No?
<brobostigon> bigcalm: ah, i see.
<JamesTait> bigcalm, no.  :)  I had this conversation a couple of weeks ago with one of my Argentine colleagues.
<NET||abuse> an also preceeeds h
<JamesTait> bigcalm, I found a reference to it somewhere, let me see if I can dig it up.
<JamesTait> bigcalm, it has a special name and everything.
<bigcalm> I call it 'awkward'
<NET||abuse> an ukulele
<NET||abuse> yes, sounds sawkward :p
<DJones> bigcalm: http://www.dailywritingtips.com/using-a-and-an-before-words/ Suggests it depends on pronunciation, rather than spelling, I guess 'user' would probably pronouned as though its spelt 'Yuser'
<bigcalm> DJones: that's the thing. I would vocally say "a user", but feel I have to write "an user"
<JamesTait> bigcalm, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A,_an#Indefinite_article
<NET||abuse> lets just live in opposite land and say things liek "a apple"
<JamesTait> DJones, that about sums it up.
<DJones> I think I'd still write 'a user', but also depends on the context and the rest of the sentance
<bigcalm> JamesTait: thanks for the link. I'll enjoy it later :)
<JamesTait> bigcalm, yeah, there's a lot to read in that page. :)  But tl;dr is: a/an depends on whether the next word begins with a vowel *sound* regardless of whether its a vowel *letter*
<DJones> You could always avoid the problem and write your system docs/user manual in Latin :)
<ali1234> a owl?
<JamesTait> No
<bigcalm> DJones: yeah, I'll get on that
<JamesTait> Also, good morning all!
<JamesTait> popey, CalDAV sync was re-enabled, and IIRC CardDAV was added too.
<JamesTait> http://googledevelopers.blogspot.co.uk/2013/06/making-googles-caldav-and-carddav-apis.html
 * JamesTait gets back down to work.
<BigRedS> I'm getting a new work phone. Aside from the screen is there any particularly good reason to get a Galaxy S4 over an S3?
<davmor2> Morning all
<bigcalm> BigRedS: myself and some other S3 users have found the phone to be freezing up now and then (requiring the battery to be pulled out)
<BigRedS> Ooh, I've no real intention of leaving the stock software on it for more than a few hours
<BigRedS> well, actually, I did wonder if it was time to give a vendor Android another go, but the norm for me is to reflash it before I find out what I'm potentially missing out on
<bigcalm> I've been happy with the stock on the S3
<bigcalm> But it's become very slow and sometimes freezy
<bigcalm> After the 2 year contract is up, I'll put CM on it I expect
<bigcalm> Morning davmor2. Chris has had a haircut
<davmor2> bigcalm: was it the one on the left that he had cut
<bigcalm> davmor2: mean :P
<BigRedS> Ah, cool. I can get a more me-proof case for the S3, and I can't see any technical diference that I'm likely to notice
<davmor2> bigcalm: I'm only jealous that he has more hair than me ;)
<DJones> I want one http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-22887729
<SuperMatt> awesome!
<DJones> I guess any hippies with hair down to their waist might be better not riding it though
<BigRedS> That's not a combination I ever expected to see
<DJones> I'll wait to see Daniel Craig waving goodbye to his pursuers in the next Bond film as he flies away across a canal/river to escape
<DJones> Does anybody here use Dropbox on a 12.04 server machine? Just wondering whether these instructions are the safe/correct way to install it http://ubuntuserverguide.com/2012/06/how-to-install-and-configure-dropbox-on-ubuntu-server-12-04.html or if there is a better method
<bigcalm> DJones: Get the .deb from dropbox.com. Install
<bigcalm> That is all there is to it
<bigcalm> Oh, sorry
<bigcalm> On a server
<bigcalm> Don't know :)
<DJones> Seems to be working ok
<DJones> Its updating & downloading in the background
<diplo> Can use U1 on a server as well afaik
<bigcalm> Would be nice if it were possible to do this with SparkleShare
<directhex> sparkly!
<directhex> we may write a sparkleshare daemon. i need to talk to hbons.
<bigcalm> 'we'?
<directhex> collabora. we're using sparkleshare for work. so enhancing it is a low hanging fruit
<Laney> czajkowski: i haz booked trains for hackntalk
<czajkowski> Laney: huzzah :)
<czajkowski> Laney: mpt is also going
<Laney> all the cool kids
<Laney> 43 quid though on advance tickets :(
<Laney> oh to have a railcard again
<mungbean> the BBC just tricked me into watching a catcam of a cat being sick
<bigcalm> aquarius: oh my
<aquarius> heh.
<bigcalm> aquarius: good luck with whatever you choose to do :)
<aquarius> Thank you :)
<MooDoo> bigcalm: am i missing somerhing?
<popey> MooDoo: https://twitter.com/sil/status/345146434485645313
<MooDoo> oh thanks popey
<MooDoo> admit it, he's leaving to plan the LRL comeback tour for next year ;)
<BigRedS> Heh. Xscreensaver doesn't seem to recognise my scrollwheel as activity
<TheOpenSourcerer> Right then. What's for lunch?
<BigRedS> which is a handy reminder of when I've been scrolling down The Comments for too long :)
<popey> TheOpenSourcerer: good call!
<BigRedS> My flatmate's just got back from a coffee shop. I'm having a selection of espressoes for lunch :)
 * popey gets some
<MooDoo> oh yeah it's lunch time
<TheOpenSourcerer> gah - I've got to go "outside"
<mungbean> i still have a dual screen screensaver bug since forever :(
<mungbean> usually have to typoe password in blindly
<mungbean> kinda bad when irc sessions might be in focus
 * TheOpenSourcerer thinks a walk to the chippy might be in order.
 * popey has beans on toast
<BigRedS> mungbean: yeah, for some reason I've not got that right now
<mungbean> think its nividia related
<BigRedS> but, excitingly, sometimes the box for the password doesn't appear. I get a mouse pointer that can only move in a small bit of the screen, and need to type blindly to get it to let me in
<BigRedS> ah, I'm on Intel
<BigRedS> but that would explain it disappearing when I got rid of my old desktop...
<mungbean> launchpad doesn't seem to show a list of bugs that you have "me too'd"
<BigRedS> aren't they added to the subscribed list?
<mungbean> #848562
<mungbean> bug 848562
<lubotu3> bug 848562 in gnome-screensaver (Ubuntu) "gnome-shell lock screen does not display password prompt" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/848562
<mungbean> not exactly it actually
<mungbean> cos my screen doesn't wake up
<mungbean> unless u type the password
<mungbean> seems to be ancient bug
<mungbean> affecting nvidia proprietary
<mungbean> also maybe not a unity bug but gnome-shell-ish
<mungbean> bug 998735
<lubotu3> bug 998735 in mutter (Ubuntu) "Light blue screen on primary monitor when waking up from inactivity" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/998735
<Laney> wtf
<Laney> why did it have to start chucking it down just before I was about to head out on the bike? >:|
<bigcalm> I shouldn't really be eating dough nuts for lunch
 * bigcalm grumbles at himself
 * Laney grimaces and heads out into asid rain
<Laney> said (acid?)
<bigcalm> Assiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiid
 * bigcalm heads out into the lashing rain
<mungbean> can't seem to install/cmopile gnome-screensaver 3.4.4 without installing massive loads of junk :(
<BigRedS> why do you want gnome-screensaver? it doesn't do anything
<BigRedS> oh, it blanks the screen I guess
<mungbean> and is buggy
<mungbean> locks the screen
<mungbean> if i can get xscreensaver working with the zuper-L shortcut and the desktop shortcut then i would be happy instead
<mungbean> oh. i'm using nouveau. wonder how long i've been doing that for?
<ali1234> probably since about the time you started having loads of problems
<ali1234> there is a way to get affecting bugs from launchpad
<mungbean> think i've aalways had problems :(
<ali1234> https://bugs.launchpad.net/~/+affectingbugs
<mungbean> oh thanks, i never noticed the column on the right
<mungbean> bug 1140716 is a serious one
<lubotu3> bug 1140716 in linux (Ubuntu Raring) "[regression] 3.5.0-26-generic and 3.2.0-39-generic GPU hangs on Sandybridge" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1140716
<ali1234> i have 200 affecting bugs of which 14 have been fixed
<mungbean> can't believe it affects so many kernels
<mungbean> i have similar experience with fixes
<mungbean> mind you, in the early days, a lot were gwibber related
<mungbean> so there were never gonna get fixed
<ali1234> most of my bugs are in the default applications
<ali1234> ie unity, compiz, pulseaudio. stuff that we are constantly told how good it is and how it is so much better than what we had before
<mungbean> nobody has proven to me yet that scrapping everything and rewriting again ever fixes the bugs
<mungbean> just get new bugs
<mungbean> also, when gnome-screenshot runs, i get no subsequent pop up to save my screenshot
<ali1234> mungbean: that is correct, it now saves automatically
<ali1234> full screen that is
<mungbean> ah, where's that?
<mungbean> i'd rather print screen just runs shutter, but don't know how
<popey> the nook is an interesting device
<popey> cheap and rootable
<mungbean> nook simple?
<popey> yes
<mungbean> interested to hear usefulnes and specs
<popey> you can root it and install other apps from the market, including kindle, and other ebook reader apps
<popey> making it a kinda ultimate e-reader
<popey> chuck dropbox on it and you can get your files easily to it
<mungbean> performance?
<popey> seems okay, by ereader standards
<mungbean> Â£30 still?
<popey> yes
<mungbean> bought too much stuff lately
<mungbean> got a 2nd hand wii fit yesterday
<mungbean> my son playing it is hilarious
<mungbean> the jogging game
<mungbean> ali1234: alt-printscrn does the current window -> pictures
<mungbean> why did they remove teh helpful "copy onto clipboard"screen
<ali1234> same reason they removed everything else
<mungbean> insanity
<ali1234> nook has e-ink display?
<mungbean> http://shutter-project.org/faq-help/set-shutter-as-the-default-screenshot-tool/
<ali1234> cos i am quite happy with nexus 7 as e-reader
<mungbean> yes, and basic touch
<mungbean> the less good touch
<ali1234> but the backlight is a bit annoying for reading
<mungbean> i turn my tablet to zero backlight
<mungbean> and night mode
<mungbean> it's just enough
<mungbean> zero = still a bit
<mungbean> seems the new gnome keyboard settings don't allow you to create your own shortcut
<mungbean> can it be true?
<MooDoo> bloomin thunder
<brobostigon> sprinkles of rain here, nothing major yet.
<popey> mungbean: you using gnome shell or something?
<mungbean> elementary
<mungbean> wonder if they removed it
<mungbean> (or didn't add it yet)
<ali1234> i wish gimp had adjustment layers and layer groups :(
<MooDoo> ali1234: code it :p
<ali1234> they've been coding it for about 8 years now
<MooDoo> lol yes sounds about right
<ali1234> it's supposed to be in gimp 3.2
<ali1234> so about another 4 years
<MooDoo> lol
<ali1234> it would probably be easier for me to write a whole graphics app from scratch, than try to work with gimp source
<ali1234> does KDE have a high end paint program?
<ali1234> maybe i should just buy photoshop :(
<mungbean> not high end
<mungbean> more like PSP
<MooDoo> doesn't 2.8 have layer groups?
<ali1234> PSP is roughly feature parity with gimp these days
<ali1234> ah yes it does have groups
<ali1234> but since there's no adjustment layers, making a group is pointless as you can't do anything with it
<MooDoo> ali1234: photoshop ;)
<mungbean> krita is the KDE one
<Laney> good lord
<Laney> I got d-r-e-n-c-h-e-d
<ali1234> rainy laney?
<ali1234> xcf2png doesn't support layer groups anyway
<ali1234> except apparently it does
<ali1234> it just says it doesn't but it works anyway
<mungbean> thats the best way
<ali1234> oh it doesn't really quite work properly
<ali1234> you get two copies of everything, one from the merged layer group and one from the individual layers
<ali1234> it's close though, i could probably fix it
<popey> woot, kindle app on a nook â»
<mungbean> http://www.duffelblog.com/2012/04/pentagon-study-finds-beards-directly-proportional-to-combat-effectiveness/
<mungbean> *may  be satire
<mungbean> cleartext has screwed my laptop
<mungbean> and no way to restore defaults!
<mgdm> popey: nice. What's it like to use beyond as an e-reader?
<popey> exactly as you'd expect, an android device with slow screen update
<mungbean> how compare with kindle basic?
<mungbean> colleague is having software problems on his nook
<mungbean> trying to run android on it etc
<brobostigon> i do believe there is a cyanogenmod port to it?
<popey> i haven't flashed mine, just rooted it and added the marketplace and other apps
<popey> you can go to play.google.com and send apps to the device
<popey> and you retain the original nook functionality too
 * Laney smells of wet dog
<brobostigon> ewwwwww
 * Laney sits next to brobostigon 
<Laney> GET A LOAD OF THIS
<MooDoo> ewwwwwwwwww and runs
 * Laney dries his feet on the fire
 * brobostigon kicks Laney up the bum.
<MooDoo> behave you too, unless you let me play as well.
 * brobostigon lets MooDoo join in.
<MooDoo> yay
<Monotoko> anyone know anything about fcgi? :(
<mgdm> Monotoko: a little
<Monotoko> mgdm, any idea why it would dump a html file out as raw html, as opposed to a page?
<Monotoko> (still trying to figure out what's calling this system error... as far as I can see, it's just a die())
<mgdm> when you say 'html file' do you mean 'php'
<mgdm> ?
<czajkowski> bah adobe
<czajkowski> opened up a pdf and it said if you dont have the latest udpate, this message won't go away
<czajkowski> but I'm sure it was up to date
<Laney> adobe?!?!?!
<davmor2> czajkowski: there's your problem :P
<Monotoko> mgdm, no perl sorry
<Monotoko> I can't find the source file :(
<AlanBell> Monotoko: is it rendering the HTML and serving it with a mimetype of text?
<AlanBell> or is is serving up your source code that should be executed to generate the html?
<Monotoko> AlanBell, I've found the source htm file in the code... and I think this line of perl may be the culprit... $c->response->content_type('text/html; charset=utf-8');
<Monotoko> so it looks like it's serving with a html mimetype to me...
<MartijnVdS> \o/ perl
<MartijnVdS> but that's a *bad* way to set the response charset ;)
<Monotoko> I've only been here a week :P
<Monotoko> I'm a sysadmin... but apparently the job involves a large amount of perl... coded by a guy who left months ago :) - oh and I don't know anything about perl :(
<BigRedS> Monotoko: that's *one of* the bad ways to...
<BigRedS> er, that was aimed at MartijnVdS
 * BigRedS is a sysadmin whose job is partly to fix Perl not touched in ten years
<MartijnVdS> poor BigRedS
<diddledan> nobody should be tasked with fixing perl, let alone perl that's ten years untouched!
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: I work on a 15-year old Perl codebase daily
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: though we've brought it up to modern standards mostly
<MartijnVdS> (but not completely)
<diddledan> ouch
<diddledan> but then I guess I still have to support IE6 in my job
<diddledan> and that doesn't even have the option of being brought up to modern standards
<diddledan> legacy sucks
<BigRedS> MartijnVdS: turns out that when you complain that it's all old and unmaintained you're basically asking to be given the job of maintaining it
<diddledan> lol
<BigRedS> It's actually really quite interesting/fun - I'm spending a lot of time thinking about why I do things the way I do
<BigRedS> and why I don't do them the way this guy did them :)
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: we work on a combination of "you touched it last" and "you wrote it [15 years ago]"
<Monotoko> diddledan, nah it's not 10 years untouched thankfully... they're working on bringing jquery and dojo up to date right now I believe
<Monotoko> which is causing the perl to complain
<Monotoko> a lot
<BigRedS> MartijnVdS: a lot of the code I work on was written by Anon
<Monotoko> so.. what would normally be the reason for a page coming through as raw text?
<diddledan> Monotoko: wrong mime type
<BigRedS> oh yeah, have you checked what headers you're getting? libwww-perl gives you the HEAD command which you can use to get the HTTP HEAD of a document
<BigRedS> HEAD http://example.org/page.pl
<MartijnVdS> curl -I ;)
<Monotoko> let me try
<MartijnVdS> because H was already something (help?)
<Monotoko> most likely... installing curl on this dev box now...
<mgdm> MartijnVdS: it adds a header, IIRC
<Monotoko> ahha
<MartijnVdS> mgdm: ah yes, a request header :)
<Monotoko> it's coming through as text/plain
<MartijnVdS> need to keep "request" headers and "response" headers apart!
<Monotoko> now I need to figure out why...
<AlanBell> Monotoko: is the header the first thing that the perl script attempts to send?
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: "$c" indicates "context" indicates a web framework
<MartijnVdS> Which makes the order sort-of irrelevant
<Monotoko> yeah it is... template toolkit I believe
<AlanBell> maybe
<Monotoko> although I've possibly just found the culprit
<MartijnVdS> Monotoko: nah, that's not a web framework, just the template engine
<MartijnVdS> Monotoko: framework is something like Catalyst or Dancer
<Monotoko> Catalyst, aye
<Monotoko> that rings a bell... and yeah, I'm way above my expertise here
<MartijnVdS> Monotoko: what happens if you run it in stand-alone debug mode?
<MartijnVdS> you should be able to see all requests (and their responses) on the command line then
<MartijnVdS> well, in your terminal
<MartijnVdS> Monotoko: irc.perl.org, #catalyst might also help :)
<Monotoko> MartijnVdS, I will have a look tomorrow... how do I put it into standalone debug mode? This is the first time I've been given a perl task >.>
<Monotoko> typically I've been thrown right in
<Monotoko> but that's the way to learn I suppose... the sysadmin who's leaving in 10 days left two hours ago and won't be back until tomorrow
 * awilkins recoils in distaste at the idea of Perl
<MartijnVdS> Monotoko: there's "catalyst.pl" you can point at a directory
<MartijnVdS> Monotoko: catalyst.pl Hello
<MartijnVdS> Monotoko: https://metacpan.org/module/Catalyst::Manual::Tutorial::02_CatalystBasics
<Monotoko> thank you
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: Perl is becoming less crufty
<Monotoko> this place used to have two sysadmins... one who's been here 9 years who's leaving very soon... and one who left months ago who's been here since the early 90's
<Monotoko> god only knows what fun this is going to have in store for me
<MartijnVdS> lots of fun!
<MartijnVdS> and learning opportunities!
<Monotoko> the one who's been here since the early 90's wrote most of the perl... apparently horribly, according to Simon (the one who's leaving..)
<MartijnVdS> Monotoko: A sysadmin named 'Simon'?
<awilkins> Hmm. To a degree  everyone thinks everyone elses code is horrible in my exp.
<MartijnVdS> Monotoko: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bastard_Operator_From_Hell ;)
<awilkins> Simon Travalgia
<Monotoko> MartijnVdS, aye and yeah... I knew it'd be a bit of a jump, from a part time student PHP developer to full time sysadmin
<MartijnVdS> Monotoko: was the other admin 'Stephen'?
<awilkins> As long as it's a bit of a jump in pay
<MartijnVdS> Monotoko: Perl is just PHP done right
<Monotoko> the starting salary is enough to live on... works out to about Â£10/h, not much but the boss said it's because I'm inexperianced atm and we'll review it soon
<Monotoko> and MartijnVdS, he was called Merlin
<MartijnVdS> Monotoko: a real wiz, right?
<Monotoko> I just think of a wizard
<Monotoko> :P
<awilkins> Beard? Sandals? Proper Unix dude?
<Monotoko> I dunno... I've never seen him, he left months ago :P
<Monotoko> the only thing I'm going to have is his apparently bastardised code
<Monotoko> so I'm sure I will be cursing him to hell and back within the next few weeks
<Monotoko> ... do I have to run the makefile if I make a little change to the perl? -.-
<MartijnVdS> Monotoko: no, but you might have to restart the program
<Monotoko> aye I've restarted apache...
<Monotoko> hmm, well I'm off - il try to look at it again tonight
<Monotoko> a lot to learn
<daftykins> Monotoko: sounds like a fun job :)
<daftykins> ta-ra o/
<Laney> why is windows playing a ringtone at me?
<Laney> i can't find any indication of what it's for
<Laney> aarrrghghgh
<MartijnVdS> Laney: terminal bell? :)
<MartijnVdS> Laney: hardware plug/unplug sound?
<Laney> oh yes, could be that
<Laney> had an ubuntu touch tablet plugged in
<popey> oh, no
<popey> its usb "hello new device" "where'd it go" rinse, repeat
<Laney> yeah
<popey> very annoying
<MartijnVdS> Pling! Plong! Pling! Plong!
<Laney> remarkably like a ringtone when they're chained
<Laney> on w8, anyway
<Laney> (why was it happening, though?)
<MartijnVdS> broken USB-client stack?
<popey> because we haven't implemented mtp or whatever it is called
<popey> so windows tries to identify it and mount it and can't
<popey> then tries again
<MartijnVdS> s/broken/incomplete/
<Laney> surely it should give up
<Laney> and tell me it's unknown or something
<popey> that would be nice
<Laney> anyway
<Laney> now i can play civ in peace
<MartijnVdS> soundtrack for Windows' behaviour: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMy6X5cQul8
 * Laney crushes some infidels
<MartijnVdS> Laney: uh oh?
<MartijnVdS> PRISM? Are you monitoring this?
<Laney> I'm starting a new game on easy because normal is too hard for me :P
 * Laney sucks at civ
 * MartijnVdS has Civ:CTP somewhere
<MartijnVdS> For Linux!
 * MartijnVdS waits for a 3.10(-rc) to drop in saucy
<MartijnVdS> that should improve my gfx performance by $a_lot
<daftykins> i have another new laptop in to fix up today :D
<daftykins> today's is an annoying 15" acer that requires the LCD to be taken off the body just to get the casing sandwich apart >_<
<daftykins> at last, motherboard out
<mungbean> m-in-law has list of issues need sorting with new laptop
<mungbean> window 7 is looking attractive
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: nothing that an Ubuntu CD won't fix?
<mungbean> i'd like to
<mungbean> but it's almost rude
<daftykins> it's the support i'd hate
<dwatkins> could someone please tell me where I should be looking up stuff about the "ip" command (other than its manpage) - it managed to bring up eth0 whereas nothing else did
<dwatkins> this is after an upgrade to 12.04
<mungbean> to give someone such a fine OS
<daftykins> dunno about you guys but i find wireless card SMA/RP-SMA connectors such a fiddle :D
<daftykins> and i've got smallish fingers :O
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: SMA/RP-SMA are easy
<daftykins> only when you have clearance around!
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: the ones on laptop wifi cards are harder
<MartijnVdS> the tiny ones
<daftykins> these are the ones to which i refer
<MartijnVdS> RP-SMA: http://wireless.gumph.org/content/3/7/011-cable-connectors.html
<daftykins> my bad, i must mean 'mini'
<daftykins> ah nearly reassembled this machine
<ali1234> i use some small pliers
<ali1234> needle nose pliers
<ali1234> if you don't have pliers there is a trick to doing it
<ali1234> what you do is hold it by the wire about 2cm down from the connector. position it over the connector and then push down with your other hand
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: u.FL -> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hirose_U.FL
<daftykins> ye
<daftykins> ah-har
<daftykins> MartijnVdS: ty sir
<daftykins> silly me, mind was elsewhere
<mungbean> updatedb and update-xapt run far too often by default
<daftykins> rubbish - the lid lock isn't working right
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: daily = too often?
<ali1234> "once" is too often for updatedb
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: you run tracker/beagle?
<ali1234> no
<ali1234> i use find
<ali1234> and grep
<MartijnVdS> grind and fep
<ali1234> it runs in linear time, unlike locate
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: if you have tons of files and don't know where your file is, locate can be quicker
<ali1234> which does whatever it damn well pleases
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: as it defers the actual hard work to updatedb time
<ali1234> i know
<ali1234> i don't really have many files
<ali1234> and they are either really big or part of a larger project with lots of small files
<ali1234> updatedb doesn't handle either of those coses gracefully
<ali1234> like i have about 40GB of 16kb files with arbitrary binary data in them. even doing "ls" in that directory takes about 10 minutes so you can imagine what happens if updatedb tries to look in there
<ali1234> and don't even think about opening it in nautilus, that will kill the machine
<daftykins> http://i.imgur.com/HOAvHVE.jpg
<daftykins> here's todays victim, mere minutes ago
<daftykins> :>
<ali1234> no no you are supposed to do it like this http://al.robotfuzz.com/~al/ideapad/20101125_020.jpg
<daftykins> you could do with another desk ;)
<popey> haha
<ali1234> i posted that picture in #maemo and they yelled at me
<ali1234> the desk is tidy in that photo
<popey> that looks like every time I have ever opened up a machine
<ali1234> which is staged btw
<daftykins> do you really just put screws everywhere :(
<ali1234> no
<ali1234> i was trollin'
<daftykins> who were the people? i'm not sure on the connection
<daftykins> as i don't know the device
<ali1234> i meant #meego
<ali1234> that's a lenovo ideapad. they gave them out at meego conference to developers
<daftykins> ah wow
<ali1234> it has a touch screen and a twist around display so it can do tablet mode
<daftykins> you work for lenovo then? or indirectly?
<ali1234> http://al.robotfuzz.com/~al/random/desk.jpg
<ali1234> is my desk
<ali1234> no, i went to the conference and got a free one like everyone else
<ali1234> then i took it apart :)
<ali1234> then i put it back together again
<popey> looks like my desk
<popey> including altoids tin
<daftykins> XD
<ali1234> yeah it doesn't have altoids in it, it's my cig tin
<daftykins> mines littered with flash drives today
<daftykins> this AMD Turion X2 is still hitting 54 deg C when it should be idle
<daftykins> nasty.
<popey> i bought a box to put usb things in
<popey> i thought i needed a bigger box, they outgrew an altoids tin
<popey> now they're crashing about in a big box
<daftykins> :)
<popey> need more usb devices
<daftykins> mine mostly live in my laptop backpack, for cycling places
<ali1234> i have a box for usb devices
<ali1234> it's an A4 paper box
<ali1234> t's over filled and bulges out at the sides
<ali1234> i have a dell laptop shipping box completely filled with PATA IDE cables
<ali1234> another A4 box filled with CDROM drives
<neuro> jono just shredded it on ubuntuonair
<ali1234> i need to get rid of all this junk
<ali1234> maybe i can give it to the hackspace
<popey> ooh, cat program on bbc2
<MartijnVdS> ooh! CATS
<neuro> ali1234: your desk is annoyingly tidier than mine
<MartijnVdS> Mine has tidier bits, and less tidy bits
<ali1234> that picture is old anyway
<ali1234> it's abou the same level of tidyness though
<bashrc> I recently received a Lenovo Ideapad as a gift
<bashrc> It's very nice
<neuro> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/13137/Photo%2009-11-2012%2013%2007%2030.jpg
<bashrc> Your desk looks tidier than mine
<popey> yay, yours is messier than mine
<popey> phew
<neuro> lol
<daftykins> ooh-err
<daftykins> piles of gear on shelves D:
<neuro> yeah, i really need to clear all that crap out
<neuro> i still have a d-link adsl modem in that pile that's plugged in and switched on
<daftykins> i can't really talk though 'cause i just moved house back in late Feb and had the benefit of throwing out any extra tosh i didn't need \o/
<neuro> has been for years
<bashrc> There should be some randomly placed beer cans
<MartijnVdS> bashrc: *bottles
<neuro> i don't drink in my office
<neuro> in saying that, i don't really drink much these days, full stop
<neuro> however that white thing in the bottom left of the pic is a fridge
<neuro> one of those dinky things that you can power off a car power socket
<neuro> takes a few 330ml cans no problem
<diddledan> hmm, os x mavericks' wifi connection is flaxy
<diddledan> flaky**
<bashrc> You should have the computer on top of the fridge for extra cooling
<neuro> and when i say "drink", i mean "drink booze"; i still drink liquids for general refreshment purposes, obviously
<neuro> bashrc: what, the computers that would not be balanced, would eventually fall off and either break and/or kill me?
<MartijnVdS> so.. bottles of irn bru?
<neuro> out of shot
<bashrc> live dangerously
<neuro> right
<neuro> so i could put 600 quid computer on top
<neuro> or 1000 computer on top
<neuro> or 1700 quid computer on top
<MartijnVdS> yes.
<bashrc> Towers of Hanoi
<neuro> and then cry to my home insurance co when it inevitably breaks
<neuro> "and what happened sir?"
<neuro> "someone told me to put my computer on top of a mini fridge that has a non-flat top"
<neuro> *click*
<neuro> "hello? hello?"
<daftykins> XD
<zleap> hi
<daftykins> not to mention possible magnetism/electricity/other dangers
<ali1234> fridges work on magnets?
 * zleap is upgrading 12.10 to 13.04 so may vanish randomly
<bashrc> Trust in the foo
<daftykins> ruh-roh
<ali1234> neuro: i have the same mini fridge right here
<daftykins> (to steal from popey ;))
<ali1234> beer bottles don't actually fit into it, if it's the same one
<neuro> correct
<ali1234> which is annoying
<ali1234> cos i don't drink fizzy pop :)
<ali1234> i could get some juice boxes or something
<neuro> yeah, bottles don't fit
<neuro> unless they're stubbies
<daftykins> ugh laptop keyboard slightly damaged, can't hit F2 to enter BIOS
<daftykins> yawn.
<neuro> MASH IT
<bashrc> heh
<MartijnVdS> BOIL IT
<MartijnVdS> STICK IT IN A STEW
<daftykins> XD
<bashrc> Use the force
<ali1234> i also have the same mouse and xbox controller
<bashrc> I find myself not using DVDs much these days
<daftykins> oh lordy no, not optical media
<MartijnVdS> I moved mine to a moving box the other week
<daftykins> life's too short
<MartijnVdS> I now have more space to put my CDs (which I do use)
<bashrc> Although I do have a pile of USB thumb drives
<neuro> C ... Ds?
<neuro> what are these things that you speak of?
<bashrc> That's a technology from the last century
<ali1234> doovdes?
<BigRedS> neuro: coasters
<neuro> oh, like floopy drives
<neuro> ali1234: do you have lickidah toov?
<daftykins> a joovc look-a-da-toov no less
<mgdm> that took me a minute
<MartijnVdS> neuro: I actually play my music from them!
<neuro> or the voooohs?
<bashrc> CDs were once regarded as having stupidly large storage capacity
<neuro> MartijnVdS: WHAT?
<MartijnVdS> neuro: I know right
<neuro> WHY?
<BigRedS> Yeah, after going 1.44MB floppy to 600MB CD, the 'jump' to 4GB DVDs was a bit of an anticlimax
<MartijnVdS> neuro: because otherwise I have to turn on my TV and/or PS3
<mgdm> http://imgur.com/a/ahZOF omnomnomnom
<MartijnVdS> neuro: as my receiver can't play stuff off DLNA shares
<neuro> when I buy audio CDs, which is a very very rare event now, it gets taken out of the jewel case, ripped, put back in the case and stored
<neuro> feh
 * neuro hugs itunes + itunes match
<MartijnVdS> neuro: also, because it makes for good conversation when a disc is "done" and a new one must be selected :)
<neuro> the 21st century called, they want you to join us
<BigRedS> did you warn them?
<MartijnVdS> neuro: I also have everything as flac in my ~
<BigRedS> hm. It doesn't work that way round
<MartijnVdS> neuro: for when I'm at my PC
 * neuro likes the idea of flac in principle
<bashrc> I converted all my audio CDs to mp3s a decade ago
<neuro> and i tried ripping stuff to ALAC for a while
<neuro> but gave up
<neuro> it's just too much storage overhead for too little audio gain
<neuro> i just rip to 256Kbps AAC now
<mungbean> got given itunes vouchr once, had to sprnd . everything was more $Â£ than amazon
<neuro> that's variable
<MartijnVdS> neuro: with a 9TB NAS, I don't care about storage capacity a lot
<mungbean> had too load windows to spend a voucher,  and install 50mb app
<neuro> if we're going to play the NAS sizing game, I have 11TB, and I do care :)
<neuro> cargobay0:/data  5.5T  3.8T  1.7T  70% /data/cargobays/0
<neuro> cargobay1:/data  5.5T  3.0T  2.5T  55% /data/cargobays/1
<neuro> :)
 * MartijnVdS deletes old files sometimes
<neuro> in saying that, i keep all my music on my MBP
<MartijnVdS> old, useless files, mostly
<neuro> and let time machine take care of archives
<neuro> hornet-wifi:~ neuro$ du -sch /Volumes/Storage\ Bay/Music/iTunes/iTunes\ Media/Music/
<BigRedS> I have a largely empty external HDD and a spotify account
<neuro> 133G	/Volumes/Storage Bay/Music/iTunes/iTunes Media/Music/
<neuro> eep, that took longer than i thought
<brobostigon> kernel cleanout, had about a dozen difefrent kernels installed.
<mungbean> how long to hear sall that onve
<mungbean> omce
<neuro> like a month and a half or something
<neuro> ah jeez, someone i replied to in #ubuntu-on-air has latched onto me and is PMing me
<neuro> "I just have one more question. How do you configure Netflix on ubuntu?"
<neuro> aaaargh
<neuro> "is SUN Micro and Oricle the same company now?"
<neuro> MartijnVdS: see, if you used a "real" OS, you could stream your local music to other devices and speakers </troll>
<MartijnVdS> neuro: oh I can, but I don't have "smart" speakers, or a receiver that speaks DLNA ;)
<MartijnVdS> neuro: also, no direct audio cable from my office PC to my living room
<neuro> what's DLNA got to do with anything, other than the fact that it's evil evil eeeeeevil
 * neuro hugs AirPlay
<neuro> mungbean: just fired up itunes ... 49 days, 7 hours, 32 minutes, 38 seconds
<MartijnVdS> 33 days, 23 hours, 14 minutes here
<MartijnVdS> and 99% of that I have on CD :)
<neuro> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/13137/Screen%20Shot%202013-06-13%20at%2021.39.55.png
<neuro> airplay \o/
<MartijnVdS> neuro: that doesn't fix my problem
<neuro> nope
<MartijnVdS> neuro: my home theatre speakers don't do airplay!
<mungbean> !apple
<lubotu3> For PPC discussion, join #ubuntu-powerpc. For discussion on Mac software, or help with same, please visit ##apple.
<neuro> neither do mine
<mungbean> lol
<neuro> http://www.airserver.com/
<MartijnVdS> if they did, I could use it from Ubuntu as well :)
<neuro> i run a server on my mac mini which is hooked up to my surround system
<neuro> mungbean: my desktops/laptops run OS X, my gaming PC runs Win 8, my router is pfsense (bsd) ... WHY AM I HERE!?!?
<mungbean> community? advertising? alcohol?
<mungbean> love?
<MartijnVdS> nostalgia?
<neuro> well all my servers are 12.04 ...
<mungbean> mine are centos
<neuro> ew
<neuro> so are most of my employers :(
<neuro> mix of centos 5.9, win2k3 and win2k8
<neuro> the purge is beginning, though
<mungbean> left a job 18mths aho, they didnt replace me, and the servers have run themselves
<neuro> heh
<mungbean> and 150 frdktopds
<neuro> "in da panic, dey tried to pull da plug"
<mungbean> desktopd
<neuro> lol
<neuro> i do that as well
<mungbean> no diwntime
<neuro> move one key to the right by accident
<mungbean> holding a sleepimh bsby
<neuro> smf rbrtuyhinh i yyper vomed out ,sdjref
<mungbean> and no backlit kb
<neuro> (and everything i type comes out mashed)
<MartijnVdS> neuro: Trying Welsh?
<brobostigon> adsl has died twice in 5 mins, this is getting annoying.
<mungbean> new modem
<neuro> MartijnVdS: offset touch typing
<MartijnVdS> neuro: it's all Welsh to me ;)
<neuro> hmm, i was going to make food
<neuro> now, cba
<neuro> may have to send an SOS to just eat
<neuro> eww, just noticed they're running on IIS
<mungbean> krrp thinkin its friday
<neuro> me too
<mungbean> fail
<brobostigon> mungbean: it must be the adsl, as i connected to it, via an rpi, ethernetted to said router which contains said adsl modem, the rpi communicates with the router fine, however outside connection dies.
<neuro> spent last week in oxfordshire, and the trip back and subsequent w/e has messed me right up
<mungbean> just kicked over the gripe water
<neuro> brobostigon: fw update needed, maybe?
<mungbean> baby awake
<mungbean> my evening has faied
<neuro> awww
<popey> bad parent
<brobostigon> neuro: maybe, i shall see if anything is available.
<neuro> what is it?
<neuro> linksys? technicolor? d-link?
 * neuro has given up on dsl routers
<neuro> i just plug my openreach FTTC modems straight into pfsense
<mungbean> had repeated probs with mine and every time i get new one, fixes problem for another year or so
<popey> i haven't had to replace my superhub at all, ever
<mungbean> my son ninja kicked a mirrored glass cupboard door yesterday
<popey> dunno how long I've had it, but some time now
<neuro> are you using it as your main router, or in bridge mode to something else?
<popey> i have two other routers
<mungbean> http://dilbert.com/strips/comic/2013-06-13/
<popey> its in modem-only mode
 * neuro was going to do the latter during a brief flirtation with getting virgin installed
<mungbean> so true dilbert
<popey> i have two WNDR3700's, one running dd-wrt, one running openwrt
<popey> at each end of the house to get full coverage
<mungbean> which you prefer?
<popey> dont really care â»
<popey> dd-wrt is dhcp server the openwrt is just a bridge
 * MartijnVdS likes OpenWRT a lot
<MartijnVdS> I have 2 TP-Link WDR4300s with svn:branches/attitude_adjustment
<brobostigon> neuro: some edimax with a massive model number.
<neuro> blimeh
<czajkowski> Aloha folks
<popey> yo
<brobostigon> neuro: why?
<neuro> czajkowski: aloooooooooha!
<BigRedS> Morning czajkowski!
<neuro> brobostigon: just not a name i've heard for a while
<czajkowski> how are we all doing this evening
<brobostigon> neuro: ah.
<bashrc> Congrats on the new job btw
<czajkowski> bashrc: thanks
<czajkowski> neuro: one day I'm going to get going to Hawaii! I'll have the lingo down
<neuro> lol
<bashrc> sun, sea, sand and servers
<popey> http://mashable.com/2013/06/11/homeless-entrepreneur-thomas-backlund
<popey> do what he did, disappear into the forest with laptop â»
<AlanBell> tempting
<daftykins> argh link has embedded playing video
<bashrc> Good luck to the fellow.  Coding in the forrest might not be such fun in winter though.
<popey> I'd love to do that
<daftykins> i can't even find the video - just says 'PEGI 18' and a bit of rambling
<daftykins> then thankfully it stopped
<neuro> sounds like you're watching an "ad"
<bashrc> adblock ftw
<popey> indeed
<daftykins> yeah i used to use adblock
<daftykins> i hadn't truly treated this desktop install as real, as i was having major issues with my OS SSD
<daftykins> so there's not much on it at present
<daftykins> i even host my own adblock rules :D don't trust the ones it offers
<daftykins> oh dear at an email i just got - my friends sisters laptop which i was fixing earlier in the week, she's got it back and said thanks, but has just cracked the screen on her new one X|
<daftykins> with this family i have a job for life
<neuro> yeah but do you get paid for it? :)
<popey> Mock the week was fun this week
<brobostigon> yes.
<brobostigon> RHGN on iplayer tmrw.
<neuro> Red Hat Goblin Network?
<daftykins> neuro: absolutely
<daftykins> although i'm only charging super-mates rates right now
<brobostigon> russel howards good news.
<daftykins> i got ~Â£25 for replacing a keyboard, full strip down and clean up
<daftykins> was all i asked for though
<daftykins> did the OS reinstall for free
<popey> oh Nigel Farage on QT, should be fun
<neuro> for varying values of fun
<popey> oh, young audience, pfft
<brobostigon> isnt it in scotland? didnt he have to shelter in a pub from protesters last he was in scotland?
<mgdm> yeah
<neuro> jings, it is
<neuro> it's in edinburgh
<mgdm> Otherwise, he'd be pretty much irrelevant up here
<neuro> and galloway is on
<neuro> and that looks like the scottish tory leader
<popey> for additional $fun
<mgdm> I don't tend to watch QT, for the same reason I don't watch the Apprentice
<popey> right, off to bed, will watch this tomorrow
 * neuro nn p
<bashrc> idiot politicians
<neuro> nn popey
<neuro> mgdm: anas sarwar, is that mohammed sarwar's son?
<mgdm> neuro: think so
<czajkowski> popey: did you ever watch torchwood ?
<neuro> "let's set up our own google and facebook"
<neuro> because that's worked so well up to this point
<mgdm> Mosh is pretty good
<mgdm> (unrelated)
<brobostigon> galloway taking funny potshots at farage. lol
<neuro> the funny thing is, nothing was really "ugly" about the independence debate until farage arrived
<brianb> hi how do i remove the latest flash plugin  which was pushed as a download today and revert back to my previous version?
<brianb> the reason is it does not work with the bbc iplayer - the old version did! so it would appear that the QA has NOT tested it using the BBC iplayer!!!!
<daftykins> is it causing problems?
<daftykins> ah
<brianb> every time there is a new version of the flashplayer it causes a problem with the BBC iplayer rendering it in operative
<brianb> i just want to remove it and get the version from the BBC
<daftykins> sounds about right - but then you don't want to hold back flash from being updated, really
<brianb> or get back the old version
<neuro> the bbc don't distribute flash
<brianb> well i just want to use the BBC iplayer and so i will be held back if that is the case
<neuro> brianb: are you using the free flash player or the non-free player?
<brianb> the one i downloaded from a link on the bbc site and not the one pushed it the update today
<neuro> ew
<brianb> so why is the update not working with the BBC iplayer then?
<daftykins> i'd imagine there's a lag between a new version coming out and the Beeb getting their act together
<brianb> maybe so thats no good to me
<brianb> so how do i remove the update
<mgdm> daftykins: I'd think it'd be something else - flash updates don't tend to break things like that in minor releases
<neuro> daftykins: i'm using iplayer with 11.7.700 on mac right now, and it's fine
<daftykins> i'd expect so too, but then i don't know how anal'y the BBC lock it down
<mgdm> 'they don't', would be my guess
<daftykins> ok well i personally expect you no longer have the old version present
<daftykins> so i think you're out of lock to 'roll back'
<neuro> and i wouldn't be manually installing flash on ubuntu anyway
<daftykins> *luck
<brianb> as far as im concerned the update should have been tested using the bbc iplayer before it was pushed for general relsease
<daftykins> brianb: i can't see that argument going far.
<neuro> brianb: you can't expect QA to test with every website ever
<daftykins> ^+1
<brianb> look all i am asking is how i remove the update ok
<daftykins> anywho i'm not quite familiar enough with desktop flash use to advise - but i'm thinking a manual download of the older version would be what you need
<ormiret> brianb: how was your flash plugin updated (regular ubuntu updates?)? And is flash working on other sites?
<neuro> brianb: if you did this command in a console:
<neuro> dpkg -l flash\* | grep ^ii
<brianb> the BBC is the most popular website with millions of users so it should have been in QA's remit to test it
<neuro> and paste the output into a pastebin
<neuro> ...
<daftykins> brianb: funnily enough Adobe could probably not care less about people wanting to watch their TV shows
<brianb> it was updated using the ubuntu software notification of updates
<neuro> tum te tum te tum
<brianb> it seems nor does ubuntu!
<neuro> brianb: would you like some help?
<brianb> yes
<daftykins> Canonical, i.e. Ubuntu are not responsible :)
<neuro> please try what i've asked already
<neuro> in a console, do this:
<neuro> dpkg -l flash\* | grep ^ii
<neuro> if there is any output, copy/paste it into a pastebin
<neuro> and paste the url here
<brianb> 5762999
<neuro> um
<daftykins> Devlin: hello sir, didn't know you were a UK'ian
<neuro> the full URL would be awesome :)
<Devlin> Yes, I am
<neuro> i'm not a psychic ;)
<daftykins> Devlin: whereabouts are you from?
<Devlin> yorkshire
<daftykins> ah-har
<Devlin> heart o'britain
<daftykins> honey spoke of your origins after being surprised there's a UK chan
<Devlin> ah right
<daftykins> ^_^
<Devlin> well i had to come and check it out lol
<daftykins> i'm a Channel Islander myself
<daftykins> :)
<Devlin> what was she saying about me?
<neuro> brianb: url?
<Devlin> lol
<daftykins> 'i summoned my brit'
<Devlin> heh
<Devlin> well she hardly summoned me
<Devlin> she asked if i knew about this place
<daftykins> neuro: http://paste.ubuntu.com/5762999/
<daftykins> URL guessing point goes to me
<brianb> the pastbin url is the number i gave you
<daftykins> if i may say so
<Devlin> and i thought i'd come and see if there was a legitimate uk channel
<daftykins> brianb: sure but some people like to reduce the workload when they're giving help ;) there are lots of paste sites :D
<neuro> brianb: you gave me a number, not a URL; i had no idea what site you'd used until daftykins did some jedi mind trick shenanigans
<daftykins> Devlin: well, it is that, most of these types are quite formally behind Canonical
<daftykins> neuro: :D
 * daftykins waves his hands
<Devlin> right
<Devlin> lol
<Devlin> well i hate to say it but i use linux mint
<brianb> paste.ubuntu.com/5762999
<neuro> brianb: so remove flashplugin-installer using the package manager thingy, enable multiverse, do an update, then install flashplugin-nonfree
<Devlin> since ubuntu runs like garbage on my netbooks
<daftykins> Devlin: had you considered a variant like xubuntu?
<Devlin> i didn't like xubuntu
<daftykins> sounds fair
<brianb> what is multiverse?
<daftykins> brianb: a repository of packages
<neuro> http://askubuntu.com/questions/89096/how-do-i-enable-the-multiverse-repository
<Devlin> hmm
<daftykins> Devlin: i take it you've encountered the likes of mc44 before?
<Devlin> no
<daftykins> ah
<Devlin> i think he's a pleb though
<daftykins> seemed a usual reaction was all ;)
<Devlin> well he's wrong
<Devlin> honey and I are two different people
<Devlin> but in a lot of ways we are one too
<daftykins> i may need to go and call Mulder and Scully
<daftykins> but fair enough :)
<neuro> wtf are you two on about? :)
<daftykins> neuro: cross-channel hijinks
<neuro> hmm
<daftykins> Guest10749: you appear to be coming a cropper with nickserv
<Guest29248> daftykins, it's me :P
<Guest29248> trying to get ZNC working
<Guest29248> and came a cropper with the firewall
<Guest29248> so I couldn't get in in time >.>
<daftykins> ah :)
<Monotoko> :D
<brianb> ok thanks for you help have reinstalled the old version and the BBC iplayer is now working - the problem with the new version is that the sound does not work
<neuro> which will be fine until the next update
<neuro> you should check on the ubuntu forums to see if other people are having similar issues
<neuro> you really shouldn't run an out of date flash player
<neuro> too many security gotchas
<daftykins> too true
<brianb> so does the bbc use a non free version or what?
<neuro> no
<neuro> the bbc uses Flash
<neuro> full stop
<neuro> whether or not the player in your browser is non-free or not is a client-side issue
<brianb> adobe flash
<neuro> i.e. yours, not the BBC's
<brianb> well i download it from adobe
<neuro> all the bbc are doing is using html tags to specify that a flash app be streamed to your browser, and rendered by the client-side plugin
<brianb> had a link in the browsers history going back so used that link
<neuro> where you get your plugin from is your bailiwick
<brianb> ?
<neuro> and the reason that the BBC link to adobe for you to install the plugin is that the bulk of their users will be IE/Firefox users on Windows, and Safari/Firefox users on Mac OS X
<neuro> who do not have Flash pre-installed
<neuro> if you're running Flash plugin on Ubuntu, you really should use a prepackaged version that's in the repos, be it the free or non-free version
<brianb> so why does a later version cause problems with the sound/
<neuro> i have no idea
<neuro> are your kernel+sound drivers up-to-date?
<neuro> and in fact, you haven't told us what version of ubuntu you are running
<brianb> apart from the lastest flash update i always update my 12.04 when notifications are shown so yes all the latest kernel
<neuro> 12.04, ok
<neuro> and what browser are you using?
<brianb> firefox
<brianb> version 21
<brianb> aol mail will sometimes cause a crash due to problems with scripts
<brianb> only happens using aol mail
<neuro> so don't use aol mail ;)
<neuro> kidding.
<brianb> does not happen using chrome with aol mail
<neuro> have you tried iplayer with chromium?
<brianb> what i dont like about ubuntu is when say you get a problem with the browser the screen dimms and you lose control of the system like its in a quesent state untill after a few minutes
<neuro> any app that becomes unresponsive does that
<brianb> yes and thats works with the hardware im using
<neuro> so if chromium works ...
<brianb> yeah its very annoying
<neuro> why not just use chromium?
<brianb> i do but tend to have lots and lots of tabs open with firefox i use it as a second browser
<brianb> i have had as many as 60 tabs open in chrome
<neuro> i have to use safari to book flights on virgin atlantic because their website doesn't like chrome
<neuro> sometimes stuff doesn't work quite right
<neuro> especially on ubuntu, which is effectively an experimental operating system (in my opinion)
<neuro> at least when it comes to interfacing with closed source software
<neuro> if you have a workaround, use it! :)
<brianb> firefox tends to remember a lot more then chrome if its closed down and reopened
<neuro> chrome remembers everything for me when i restart it
<neuro> and i use it in multiple user mode to keep work and personal stuff separate
<neuro> i can close my work window of tabs
<neuro> then quit the app with my personal tabs window open
<neuro> restart, i get my personal tabs back
<neuro> then select my work user, and get all my work tabs back
<neuro> Every. Time.
<brianb> so how do you use it in multiple modes?
<neuro> i set up multiple users
<neuro> in the settings page
<neuro> rtfm
<brianb> what in chrome
<neuro> yes
<neuro> pretty sure chromium supports it too, no reason why it shouldn't
<brianb> ive never done that
<brianb> so how do you set it up for multiple user mode?
<neuro> http://www.chromium.org/user-experience/multi-profiles
<neuro> rtfm
<brianb> ok thanks
<brianb> mind you chrome is much more faster then firefox
<neuro> that's why i use it, personally
<neuro> memory footprint is lower too, especially for the number of tabs i keep open
<brianb> how many tabs do you have open
<neuro> depends on what i'm doing
<neuro> anything between 50 and 150 depending on how busy i am
<neuro> across two windows
<neuro> x2 if i'm using two MBPs at the same time
<brianb> im using Haiku for the irc using their vision irc client on a old amd laptop of 8 years and on a more modern laptop with intel dual core for ubuntu
<neuro> i probably shouldn't say in here what i use ;)
<brianb> mac
<neuro> :)
<brianb> i have a mini mac
<neuro> the amount of paid, proprietory software i use during a day is just stupid :)
<brianb> really
<neuro> Linkinus, Coda, Sublime Text, Transmit, Office 2011, Office 2013, Pixelmator, MS RDP Client ...
<brianb> so is your daily platforms windows based
<neuro> nope
<neuro> mainly centos+ubuntu with some win2k3/win2k8
<daftykins> neuro: it's safe - i'm running Windows
<neuro> phew :)
<daftykins> they haven't chased me out yet... ;)
<brianb> lol
<neuro> 7? 8?
<daftykins> i'm typing from ubuntu server though \o/
<daftykins> 7 ja
<neuro> win 7 is probably the best windows OS since win2k
<neuro> it's stable, it's useful, it's usable
<daftykins> i agree, i need exposure to what i support for people too
<daftykins> as a freelance IT'er
<neuro> good call
<neuro> i usually have win7 close to hand, i have a dell vostro that i keep handy for close encounters
<neuro> plus win7 parallels VMs on both my main macbook pros
<neuro> less said about win8 on my dell gaming thingamajig, the better
<neuro> oh good, speaking of flash, i've just had an updater notification appear
<neuro> i was going to quit chrome anyway ;)
<brianb> the problem with windows all versions - is when you switch on a pc with it installed and connected online to the net the auto updates always start just when you want to use it or if you power down it then decides to do a  update and install lots
<brianb> of stuff
<neuro> i'd rather it did update than didn't
<brianb> every time i boot into windows it does a\ update
<brianb> then a restart a few times
<brianb> but all operating systems have their little quarks
<neuro> with their rules of acquisition ...
<neuro> and their dabo tables ...
<neuro> no Deep Space Nine fans in the house then? oh well :)
<daftykins> brianb: there are ways to control such things. manual updating is the main one :D
<neuro> yup
<daftykins> neuro: yeah i am a bit :) i was just elsewhere then though
<brianb> i know
#ubuntu-uk 2013-06-14
<daftykins> so a tad slow
<neuro> if you have unlimited internet, just set it to download and notify
<neuro> or if not, just set it to notify only
<brianb> mind you they are having problems killing off xp
<neuro> who is?
<brianb> microsoft
<neuro> it's been EOLed, end of
<brianb> lots of companies will not update to win7
<daftykins> yeah come April she's dead
<daftykins> and not a moment too soon either
<neuro> i know plenty of companies updating
<brianb> yeah but it will not stop it be used
<daftykins> i'll refuse to work on it even if i get any requests from now on
<neuro> i was part of a win7 rollout last year
<neuro> it won't stop O/S2 Warp being used, but it doesn't mean people have to support it
<brianb> it is still the most popular os that microsoft came out with
<neuro> it's not, by current market share
<brianb> win8 sells less then vista
<neuro> peak was in 2007
<neuro> win7 is the big boy now
<brianb> win 8 2.86% vista 5.9%
<neuro> um, source?
<brianb> xp is still up there with win7
<brianb> BBC technology
<neuro> ha
<daftykins> it's not when you see too many infected XP machines you have to scrub :)
<daftykins> it's just too easily exploited
<brianb> yeah i know
<neuro> as of last month, win7 was on 44.8%, winxp on 37.7%, vista on 4.5% and win8 on 4.2%
<neuro> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_operating_systems
<neuro> according to Net Applications
<neuro> who are pretty good as this sort of thing
<neuro> s/as/at/
<brianb> well given the money they have spent in marketing and adds for win 8 thats not particular good since its been out for a year now
<neuro> 10 months, but who's counting? :)
<brianb> and they have to put back the start button
<brianb> in an attempt to gain more sales
<neuro> i doubt that will increase sales by a large amount
<brianb> mind you guess win9 must not be too long to release
<daftykins> 8.1 in a couple of months
<daftykins> i doubt it'll be to 8 as 7 was to Vista though
<neuro> it's just a big service pack
<neuro> more akin to OS X 10.8 -> 10.9
<brianb> anyway microsoft are making money out of linux
<neuro> do explain
<brianb> foxcom pays microsoft a licence to use linux
<brianb> otherwise they will be hit with legal stuff
<neuro> who?
<brianb> the manufacture of mobile devices
<neuro> you mean hon hai foxconn?
<brianb> MS threatend IP legal action
<brianb> so they decided to just pay MS rather then get draged througth the courts
<neuro> ummm
<neuro> that's an android thing, not linux per se
<brianb> dont ask me how they can do that - was an article in a linux mag a few months ago
<brianb> android is based upon linux
<neuro> IS IT?!?!?!?
<neuro> :)
<brianb> googles version of it
<neuro> but it's an *android* patent issue
<daftykins> if you can forgive my tangent, here are some snaps i just put up of the laptop i was fixing up earlier :)
<daftykins> http://imgur.com/I0S4eQx,fltsuLc,wxXYnh9,EMgCl0k,EbNTLJZ,BT8Gssv,Z3WI3n6,JqEf3c0
<neuro> hope you airdusted that fan dude :)
<neuro> and you have more patience than me
<daftykins> haha
<daftykins> i find it fun, sadly enough
<neuro> i had to do a teardown on a thinkpad
<neuro> took me two days
<daftykins> just favours for friends and families of friends
<neuro> was a screen replacement
<daftykins> ouch!
<daftykins> ah yeah
<neuro> hated every minute of it
<brianb> so how many operating suytems have back doors built into them for the snoopers to gain access?
<neuro> and it was a work thing so i couldn't just do a table flip and say **** it
<neuro> brianb: all of them
<brianb> yes
<neuro> and the word 'gullible' isn't in the dictionary
<daftykins> XD
<neuro> if you believe OSes have backdoors embedded within them to aid national intelligence agencies, then you should write your own OS
<neuro> or do a line by line analysis of the source code of your favourite FLOSS distro and compile it from scratch
<neuro> it doesn't make sense commercially to provide backdoors into OSes
<brianb> even the cpus probably have backdoors built in
<neuro> look at Apple, they have a backlog of iPhone unlocks to do under warrant
<neuro> because the authorities don't have the tools to break into the phones themselves
<neuro> if my OS is secure, how does John Q. Spymaster get into my CPU????
<brianb> im sure they can look at the way the authoritys came up with the software to infect the industrial controlers used for the manfcture of plutomium
<neuro> ?!?!?!?!?!
<brianb> a few years ago
<neuro> you're trolling us, yes?
<brianb> the centfuges
<daftykins> regardless of your intentions there can be little gain from such conspiracy theories
<brianb> dont you follow the news?
<daftykins> occasionally i hear of things
<daftykins> but if this is about PRISM, i'm not really surprised
<daftykins> nor should anyone be
<neuro> he's not talking about PRISM
<neuro> he's talking about Stuxnet
<brianb> yes
<daftykins> yeah the SCADA thing
<daftykins> i read about that, mm
<neuro> which was very very well documented, and based on lots of 0day hacks that were burned in the name of state sponsored malware
<daftykins> still i'm afraid this kinda convo i find a fair bit fruitless to enter into
<neuro> nothing particularly insidious
<neuro> the scada software was poorly protected, and the hacks employed were pretty rudimentary
<neuro> the recent chinese stuff is kinda similar
<neuro> the fact that it's state sponsored is the unusual part
<neuro> the methods employed are not unusual
<brianb> well with 30million lines of code in the linux kernel im sure someone has layed a few trap doors
<neuro> oh please
<neuro> now you're definitely trolling
<brianb> so you have analyese all that code then?
<neuro> of course not
<brianb> qed
<neuro> but do you seriously believe an openly developed project has been compromised by a government?
<neuro> with the amount of eyes on the code at any given time
<neuro> things which are "bad" get noticed very very quickly
<brianb> lots of people involved you dont know were they work do you?
<neuro> like when kernel.org was compromised a few years back
<neuro> oh dear
<neuro> i've been trolled
<neuro> dammit
<daftykins> neuro: it's ok! it's still good!
<neuro> \o/
<brianb> a few years back i read that there was a few lines of code that nearly got into the linux kernel which would have given a back door access
<neuro> tum te tum
<daftykins> make a witty retort regarding the BBC iPlayer
<neuro> IPLAYER ISN'T AS GOOD AS SKY GO!
<neuro> is that witty enough?
<brianb> well i guess you work for sky
<neuro> rofl
<neuro> sorry, i forgot my 96pt </sarcasm> tag
<neuro> although sky go interestingly does let me stream C4 channels live, which i don't think 4od does
<brianb> at least the BBC Iplayer was the first in the feild
<neuro> and?
<daftykins> that's like saying smallpox got there early
<neuro> hehe
<brianb> and sky only got the R&D from NDS
<neuro> and i'm pretty sure VoD predates iplayer
<brianb> which they took over
<neuro> lol wat
<neuro> you know cisco owns NDS now
<brianb> NDS was the R&D arm of the old IBA
<neuro> oh dear god
<neuro> i'm still being trolled
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> there are TLA's being thrown around left right and centre here
<brianb> google it
<neuro> daftykins: NDS is an israeli company who specialised in satellite TV encryption
<brianb> the IBA developed most of the digital TV
<neuro> GAAAAH
<daftykins> o rry
<daftykins> brianb: i would if i was interested, no offence
<neuro> the IBA was the old Independent Broadcasting Authority, who regulated independent TV in the UK
<brianb> NDS was created from the R&D arm of the IBA
<neuro> no, it wasn't
<neuro> it was a startup founded in israel
<brianb> yes
<brianb> it was
<brianb> but it also had roots in digitTVmidea
<neuro> daftykins: then the IBA became the ITA, then ITC, then Ofcom
<neuro> or at least bits of Ofcom
<brianb> correction ITA then IBA then ITC and now ofcom
<neuro> whatever
<brianb> most of the IBA's R&D was sold off and skybsky
<neuro> in case you're not actually trolling, you're probably thinking of the IBA developing the DBS stuff that became BSB
<brianb> aquired it
<brianb> yes they did
<neuro> which was nothing to do with DVB-T
<brianb> CMAC
<neuro> um, no
<neuro> D-MAC
<brianb> conditional access was developed by the IBA
<brianb> CMAC then D-MAC
<brianb> hence how NDS was born
<neuro> WHAT ARE YOU WIBBLING ABOUT
<brianb> btw i have a IBA R&D paper on conditional access
<neuro> i don't doubt you have
<neuro> but NDS didn't actually have a product until 1991
<brianb> and that was the origionation of encryption of digital TV
<brianb> IBA was sold off in 1990
<brianb> and NDS came out of the sell off
<neuro> IBA's regulatory functions went to the ITC and the Radio Authority
<neuro> IBA's engineering went to NTL, which was created specifically to take them
<brianb> yes but the R&D was sold off and sky got that
<neuro> you are bloody minded in your trolling, aren't you?
<neuro> i'll give you that
<brianb> then they sold bits of it off
<brianb> im not a troll
<neuro> you're doing a good impression of one
<brianb> i know people who worked for all those companies
<brianb> so i do speak with some knowledge
<neuro> you're speaking with second or third hand knowledge
<brianb> no i actually worked with some of them
<neuro> so it's second hand then
<brianb> well what knowledge are you speaking from then?
<neuro> something called Reading
<brianb> well that just googling stuff its not actually konwing ppl is it!
<neuro> i've read books on UK broadcasting
<neuro> are you saying those books are fake?
<neuro> NDS was founded in Israel in 1988
<neuro> they placed products to market in 1991
<brianb> i have worked years ago in UK broadcasting
<neuro> News Corp bought NDS in 1992
<neuro> Cisco bought NDS last year
<brianb> which is more the reading books on it
<neuro> NDS had NOTHING to do with the IBA
<brianb> News Corp was sky
<neuro> unless the IBA moved to israel when no-one was looking
<neuro> no, News Corp was a shareholder in Sky
<neuro> and always has been
<neuro> it is not a majority shareholder
<brianb> the designers from the IBA's T&A division and R&D depts went over to News Corp
<neuro> you're probably conflating IBA's engineering people at BSB being transferred through the buyout
<neuro> NO
<neuro> they went to British Sky Broadcasting
<brianb> i know ex design enginer from the IBA who is with NDS
<neuro> and if ANY of those engineers went to NDS it was very much AFTER the fact
<neuro> i don't doubt that
<brianb> well im sorry you are incorect
<neuro> but saying IBA sold their R&D to News Corp to become NDS is untrue
<neuro> utterly untrue
<neuro> (in fact IBA sold nothing, it was disbanded as discussed)
<brianb> so your an expert on broadcasting then?
<neuro> i know a little bit about it
<brianb> that does n ot make you an expert does it
<neuro> like i know work on NICAM and DVB was spearheaded by BBC R&D
<neuro> i at no point claimed to be an expert on anything
<neuro> i just remember facts that i have been exposed to
<brianb> well the encryption was being worked on with the event of D-MAC
<neuro> just because you "know a guy" surely doesn't make you an expert either?
<neuro> of course there was encryption being layered onto D-MAC
<brianb> i did say i worked in the industry
<neuro> otherwise The Movie Channel doesn't exist
<neuro> working in an industry doesn't make you an expert in all things in that industry
<brianb> and D-MAC came before all the other chanels
<neuro> eh?
<brianb> as i said most of the R&D on MAC (D-MAC) came from IBA R&D Labs
<brianb> which found its was into NDS
<brianb> and Tanburg
<neuro> NDS were tasked to do the encryption for Sky, which was a PAL based system
<brianb> dont forget its 20 odd years of technology since the original stuff was in development
<brianb> News Corp was owned by Murdock
<brianb> BSB used IBA technology
<brianb> then BSB mergered with sky
<neuro> and sky at that point were using NDS videocrypt
<brianb> and sky wanted pay as you view
<neuro> sky HAD scrambling already
<brianb> that was developed by the IBA Labs
<neuro> NO
<neuro> IT
<neuro> BLOODY
<neuro> WASN'T
<brianb> it ws
<brianb> was
<neuro> i give up
<neuro> you're impossible
<brianb> D-MAC could be scrambeled
<neuro> i didn't say otherwise
<neuro> crivvens
<brianb> i suggest you look at some online IBA R&D reports
<neuro> i suggest you look at videocrypt vs eurocrypt
<brianb> and widen you reading scope
<neuro> two very different systems
<brianb> maybe so same as PAL and NTSC or SECAM are all different but fundamentaly each is a derivative from the NTSC system
<neuro> *facepalm*
<neuro> look at the facts
<neuro> BSB was essentially an IBA venture
<neuro> the IBA went with EBU standards, MAC and EuroCrypt
<brianb> most TV standards were based upon the EBU
<neuro> Sky was a purely commercial venture, and to get to market fast, they went with straight PAL over DBS rather than multiplexing PAL into MAC, and VideoCrypt - a commercial product from NDS
<brianb> and most broadcaster were part of the EBU
<neuro> shut up
<neuro> when BSB went defunct and merged with Sky, both systems were ran concurrently
<neuro> then D-MAC/EuroCrypt was deprecated in favour of Pal/VideoCrypt
<brianb> BSB did not go defunct
<neuro> whatever, shush
<neuro> meanwhile, the BBC were working on DVB-T based on MPEG-2 ISO 13818-1
<brianb> the uk goverment of the day did not like the IBA and so they gave the green light for the merger
<neuro> and it was they who led the UK digital transmission standards, not anyone from the IBA, which didn't exist
<neuro> and Sky elected to use DVB-S for Sky Digital
<brianb> well the IBA was closed down in 1990
<brianb> so what happend to all the R&D engineers then?
<neuro> they went to NTL or got jobs elsewhere
<brianb> hold on
<neuro> or ended up working for BSkyB
<neuro> if they were working for BSB in the first place
<brianb> NTL was set up for the transmission are which was not the same as the R&D arm
<brianb> two different things
<neuro> are you saying that IBA Engineering only dealt with tx?
<brianb> the IBA split into three divisions - regulation hence ITC/Ofcom, the Radio Authorty, and engineering which had R&D and transmission
<neuro> thank you for repeating what i said earlier
<brianb> so the people involved in transmission when over to NTL, and those in R&D when to News Corp
<neuro> i'm going to say this in small words so that hopefully it will get through to you
<neuro> News Corp did not own BSkyB
<brianb> or a holding company set up that changed its name a few times
<neuro> they only had a shareholding in it
<brianb> and split into other groups
<brianb> so who are New Corp then?
<brianb> who owns New Corp?
<neuro> what's that got to do with anything?
<brianb> NEWS...
<daftykins> you two got beds to get to? ;)
<neuro> i *was* going to go on a coding run tonight :)
<neuro> got me some web stats to process
<neuro> all kinds of bash+perl evils
<brianb> so what industray do you work in then?
<neuro> what does it matter?
<daftykins> neuro: all-nighter?
<neuro> yeah
<neuro> i slept earlier mind
<daftykins> ah :)
<daftykins> i tend to give up ~mid-day when i try to pull those now
<daftykins> plus i'm just too weird on the 'high' of no sleep
<neuro> yeah, i may have problems about 1-2pm
<neuro> wow, google are "retiring" chrome frame
<neuro> i didn't know it still existed
<daftykins> haha
<daftykins> must be due to that engine change
<daftykins> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FVi7n-6txcg#t=106s
<daftykins> for your entertainment pleasure
<daftykins> although do check your volume
<neuro> lol
<neuro> worth it for the casablanca bit
<neuro> the new batman really was a crap detective though
<neuro> Batman Begins: "WHERE ARE THE DRUGS GOIIINNNNNGGGGG?"
<neuro> The Dark Knight: "WHERE IS SHEEE?!"
<neuro> The Dark Knight Rises: "WHERE'S THE TRGGGGGRRRR?!"
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> i wonder if Christian Bale had to have throat sweets on standby though
<neuro> or some lemsip
<diplo> Morning all
<MooDoo> morning all
<MooDoo> czajkowski: congrats x
<MartijnVdS> congrats?
<MooDoo> http://www.lczajkowski.com/2013/06/13/a-bite-of-something-new/
<MartijnVdS> ah, czajkowski: congrats :)
<popey> Morning all
<MartijnVdS> morning popey
<MartijnVdS> how are you today? :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> sigh... Another kernel update another reboot :-(
<popey> Tickety boo!
<popey> yeah, damn those security updates keeping us safe!
<MartijnVdS> Still no 3.10(-rc?) in saucy
<TheOpenSourcerer> lol
<hd5770> Morning!!1
<MooDoo> oh your supposed to reboot after a kernel update....rats
<MooDoo> ;)
<MooDoo> problem with running a minecraft server, you can't instantly reboot lol
<TheOpenSourcerer> Yeah - whatever happened to in-process upgrades that were promised to us by these free software engineers!
<TheOpenSourcerer> What do we want? No more reboots! When do we want it? Now!
<popey> they exist
<popey> if you pay â»
<czajkowski> TheOpenSourcerer: they exist except for kernel I thought
<popey> no, they exist for kernel too
<popey> pay up!
<czajkowski> ah
<TheOpenSourcerer> hey czajkowski - kernel too ;-)
<popey> http://www.ksplice.com/
<MartijnVdS> popey: but is it integrated in Ubuntu?
<popey> it works on ubuntu as I understand it
<TheOpenSourcerer> Oooh never realised it was "proprietary".
<AlanBell> it is oracles toy now
<AlanBell> where good projects go to die
<MartijnVdS> Kernel security updates are great, but why do I need 600 emails on the security list about them?
<SuperMatt> sometimes I can't tell if a security update is actuall required, because the packages are still "held back"
<MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: uh.. no
<MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: held back means that you need to "dist-upgrade" instead of "upgrade" because apt won't install extra packages otherwise :)
<SuperMatt> but they're still required?
<MartijnVdS> yes
<diplo> gl in your new job czajkowski
<SuperMatt> curses, more renoots
<MartijnVdS> kernel updates can cause an API version change, which creates a new package
<SuperMatt> *reboots
<TheOpenSourcerer> back in a mo - goes for a reboot & some coffee
<dwatkins> I daren't reboot my server, I can only bring eth0 up manually with the 'ip' command
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: why? what's wrong with /etc/network/interfaces
<mungbean> my desktop has gone into death spiral :(
<MartijnVdS> deathtop
<mungbean> alt-f1 login is taking 5 mins
<JamesTait> Good morning all, happy Friday and happy Blood Donor Day! :-D
<directhex> i'll happily donate blood!*
<directhex> (* note: i have a phobia of needles & pass out at minor blood tests**)
<popey> Me too, they don't want mine â¹
<directhex> (** also i have shingles)
<MartijnVdS> popey: lycanthropy, right?
<czajkowski> not seen many donate places over here considering it's donor week
<mungbean> i'm bit underweight and tend to get dizzy in normal circumstances
<mungbean> probably not the best idea
<dwatkins> MartijnVdS: I'm not sure, I've checked it doesn't have two sets of default router, but maybe there's something else that's causing this - where does whatever uses the file log? http://hastebin.com/nogiteyawe.hs
<dwatkins> d'oh - it does have two default routers, MartijnVdS *slaps face*
<popey> hah
<dwatkins> I must have been tired yesterday to miss that
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: you don't need the "network" bit either
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: that's calculated from address + netmask
<MartijnVdS> broadcast is also the default
<dwatkins> thanks, where should I have been looking for a "you shouldn't have two gateway lines in this file" message?
<czajkowski> hmm I think I want a fried egg sandwich
<popey> the network looks wrong
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: "ifup eth0" ?
<dwatkins> I'm pretty sure it didn't have two gateway lines yesterday, but I can't do anything to it right now as it's remote from me.
<dwatkins> popey: yes, thanks
<dwatkins> I was at a bit of a loss, so copied and pasted parts of an example file, originally it was only about 4 lines
<dwatkins> I'll check again and see if the problem happens with just the bare minimum of information
<mungbean> death spiral was firefox-caused...
<christel> i am not very fond of needles either... luckily they dont want my blood atm!
<christel> (Anyone who has ever injected themselves with drugs. -- does that refer only to illegal drugs do you think or would it also rule me out for having had to inject heparin for 2 weeks following childbirth in the past?)
<mungbean> i think they mean druggies who share needles
<MooDoo> my dad had to inject himself with warfrin every day for 6 weeks, he had a fear of needles, he doesn't now lol
<popey> bah, i want a coffee but the cleaner is here #firstworldproblem
<MartijnVdS> They have pills to stop blood from clotting now though
<christel> MooDoo: hehe the first week or so was ok, then i ran out of non-bruised areas to inject (it made me bruise something mad)
<MooDoo> ouch
<christel> MartijnVdS: ah but the NHS is mean, they like inflicting pain on you
<MartijnVdS> christel: you poke a hole and inject something that makes sure the bleeding doesn't stop.. ouch
<TheOpenSourcerer> my brother was a diabetic from the age of 3 until he died around 40. His arms and legs were hard as nails by the time he was an adult. He found it very hard to get a needle in anywhere.
<christel> TheOpenSourcerer: ouch!
 * czajkowski has stupidly deep veins that go hiding when I need to have a needle put in me, more often than not it ends up going in via my hand 
<MooDoo> i used to hate needles, until i had to have teeth out at the dentis.
<mungbean> goes someowhere else until grim convos have ended
<MooDoo> mungbean: you have a new born, I'm sure you can cope with gross ;) hit the pickalilly poo yet? lol
<TheOpenSourcerer> Who watched "Life of cats" last night then :-D
<TheOpenSourcerer> We have a "Sooty" too.
 * dwatkins tries breaking /etc/network/interfaces on a virtual machine to see if the symptoms match
<mungbean> MooDoo: there is gross and arrrrgh!
<MooDoo> lol
<mungbean> ick is OK
<popey> made me laugh more than it should http://i.imgur.com/UnPSGU7.gif
<MartijnVdS> popey: OUCH
<MooDoo> ouch
<Laney> TheOpenSourcerer: missed it - worth catching up on?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Yeah - it was interesting and entertaining
<popey> it was fun
<TheOpenSourcerer> Tonight there is moar cats too
<TheOpenSourcerer> A diary followup
<mungbean> bad advert for beer that gif
<MartijnVdS> watching the cat program.. "We now go over to Alan, the technical expert"
<MartijnVdS> it IS a conspiracy, isn't it/
<MartijnVdS> ?
<TheOpenSourcerer> lol
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<MooDoo> brobostigon: hello there. how are you today?
<davmor2> Morning all
<brobostigon> MooDoo: morning, could be better. and you?
<brobostigon> morning davmor2
<MooDoo> morning davmor2
<MooDoo> brobostigon: last day before my jollies so feeling ok at the moment.
<davmor2> MooDoo: brobostigon: Happy friday
<brobostigon> MooDoo: :)
<MooDoo> davmor2: thank you sir
<mungbean> any postgres users help me with ERROR:  encoding UTF8 does not match locale en_GB
<MooDoo> davmor2: it's my boys second visit to his new school he's starting in sept....almost had a tear earlier ;)
<mungbean> trying to create db with utf8 encoding (cos i was told to by the docs)
<davmor2> MooDoo: Wuss
<MooDoo> davmor2: ah shut it.
<MooDoo> ;)
<davmor2> MooDoo: :D  sorry couldn't resist I'm sure every parent is the same :)
<christel> MooDoo: aww :)
<MooDoo> davmor2: i know you by now, now get back in your pit ;)
<MooDoo> christel: you should see a pic of him in his uniform lol awwww bless
<brobostigon> morning christel :)
<christel> hiya brobostigon :)
<popey> directhex: does windows phone wake from off if an alarm is set?
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<davmor2> bigcalm: Happy Friday
<MooDoo> hello bigcalm
<bigcalm> Happy indeed
<bigcalm> Nice to see autumn comes early this year
<davmor2> bigcalm: we decided to bypass summer this year who needs all that carcinogenic sun anyway
<MooDoo> bigcalm: well as long as it's sunny next week in norfolk, that's all i'm bothered about
<davmor2> MooDoo: ubuntu phone say NO!  tuesday and wednesday will be sunny rest of the week unsettled but Ubuntu Phone also update quite often too so it might change yet :)
<MooDoo> davmor2: shush you, or at least lie to me
<davmor2> MooDoo: I gave you 2 days of hope :)
<MooDoo> davmor2: :( :p
 * Laney eyes the internets
<davmor2> MooDoo: to be fair though norfolk isn't really nextdoor to Wolverhampton so it might be better over there :)
<Laney> anyone getting crap pings to bitfolk?
<MooDoo> davmor2: we'll see if it rains i'll just make sure minecraft and tuxcart are installed on the laptops for the kids
<Laney> http://smokeping.arrakis.se/smokeping.cgi?target=bitfolk
<Laney> ah it has recovered
<czajkowski> hmm what to do before I leave, bump all scores on ppas :)
<czajkowski> or find accounts and play with them :)
<Laney> give me arm and an excellent score on all of my ppas
<Laney> or alternatively unselect require virtualized builders
<Laney> K THX BYE
<czajkowski> Laney: anyone can have ARM on stuff :)
<MooDoo> czajkowski: eat cake and sit with your feet on the desk.  or take your replacement to the pub and bitch about everyone ;)
<Laney> yeah I have it on one :P
<czajkowski> I had lots of cake yesterday
<czajkowski> two cakes in fact
<davmor2> MooDoo: see how well I am preping you to have a lovely holiday rather than one with kids screaming blue murder ;)
 * czajkowski stabs davmor2 
<czajkowski> *grin*
<MooDoo> czajkowski: new job start on monday or are you having rest?
<MooDoo> davmor2: she's into you mate ;)
<czajkowski> starting Sunday morning @4am when I head to the aiport to fly to NYC
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: MongoDB, of course it's a REST
<czajkowski> MartijnVdS: ok you, take yourself to the naughty step for that one
<MooDoo> czajkowski: i don't know why i asked when it's on your blog lol
<davmor2> czajkowski: hark at you getting all cocky now you don't have to keep asking me to look at stuff :P
<MartijnVdS> czajkowski: :(
<MooDoo> hello all, i think we all need to give czajkowski a loving *stab* ;)
 * MooDoo *stabs* czajkowski 
<MartijnVdS> http://www.weebls-stuff.com/toons/Mr+Stabby/
<czajkowski> davmor2: let be honest you'll miss me
<czajkowski> :p
<MooDoo> lol
<davmor2> czajkowski: I will it's true, I'll just have to annoy you on here instead
<davmor2> czajkowski: prod
<czajkowski> davmor2: *stab*
<davmor2> czajkowski: prod
<czajkowski> davmor2: *stab*
<davmor2> czajkowski: prod
<czajkowski> davmor2: *stab*
<davmor2> czajkowski: prod
<czajkowski> davmor2: *stab*
<davmor2> czajkowski: prod
<czajkowski> davmor2: *stab*
<Laney> my god
<MooDoo> oh dear i've started something
<czajkowski> Laney: yes you called
<directhex> popey, i think so. i was pretty hung over last time it came up
<bigcalm> On occasion, after booting my machine, dash appears behind existing windows. To fix it I have to disable/enable the unity plugin via ccsm. Does this happen to anybody else?
<MartijnVdS> no, but the dash is VERY slow for me
<MartijnVdS> when it's open, even videos that are playing fine become choppy
<davmor2> bigcalm: Nope but then I'm not on a mutli monitor display
<bigcalm> davmor2: not 100% sure that is the reason, but it might be. 12.10 though
<davmor2> bigcalm: I thought you upgraded to 13.04
<bigcalm> The laptop, yes
<Laney> anyone ever used the usb output functionality of a cheapy ion turntable with ubuntu?
<MartijnVdS> probably
<MartijnVdS> USB audio is pretty standardf
<MartijnVdS> I've used the Sony turntable's USB out
<TheOpenSourcerer> Laney: I have a KAM USB Turntable but never got very good sound recording quality the last time I tried it (but that was probably on 10.04)
<Laney> just use audacity I guess
<TheOpenSourcerer> It was also over a 30m USB cable ;-)
<bigcalm> o.O
<Laney> the missus got her dad a vinyl for his birthday and wants to put it on cd also
<MartijnVdS> Laney: if it's new, it should come with a voucher for MP3s
<Laney> it does not
<Laney> (but is)
<MartijnVdS> Bad label ;)
<TheOpenSourcerer> I lent my turntable to my Dad just after I got it for a Christmas present probably 5 years ago. Dad had it for 2 years and ripped all his vinyl. Inc. 78 RPM stuff.
<Laney> yeah, it's atlantic records
<Laney> you'd think they could do it right
<Laney> she says audacity works (H)
<directhex> my dad ripped his vinyl with audacity too
<directhex> it's the tool the guides that come with usb turntables recommend
 * ^2fC goes to restart for new updates on Ubuntu 13.04 :) yay Steam update.
<redtape|renegade> OT | Not a lot of ppl have time for C. Pirillo , but if yur in Hyde Park (not the soap box end) | ~NR the Itailian Fountains at 13:00pm | then give a shout out to the community .. :: http://youtu.be/U7hlSqD2avg?t=1m25s ::
<MooDoo> redtape|renegade: i'm so fed up I can't go and see him, i think he rocks :D
<redtape|renegade> **italian
<redtape|renegade> MooDoo: I know .. I told him to use my spotify a/c if he likes ..
<MooDoo> sweeet
<mungbean> italian? thought he was jewish
<redtape|renegade> no .. orig. Sthrn Italy.
<MartijnVdS> redtape|renegade: etaoin shrdlu ?
<redtape|renegade> .. well my Lazy Mug arrived today .. just in  time 4 Fathers' Day .. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/-/390606701825
 * redtape|renegade scurries off to do his name tags'
<redtape|renegade> leaves.
<davmor2> bigcalm: I just found a new mechanic for my car :) He is reasonable priced and has just done a load of work on my car.  I haz a rear wiper now and everything :)
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: luxury!
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: it is :)
<bigcalm> davmor2: ooo, get you. I should get the lock on the boot's glass panel looked at on mine
<davmor2> bigcalm: it's possible just a faulty micro switch
<^2fC> Afternoon :)
<^2fC> Anyone know if you can move the Task Bar in Ubuntu 13.04 to the bottom of my Screen? instead on the left hand side (Default) :/
<popey> nope
<mungbean> used to be possible. don't know anymore ^2fC
<davmor2> bigcalm: He has done a load of work on it,  things like do you know your turbo isn't working the vacuum pipe was blocked I've cleaned it out for you no charge on that :)
<bigcalm> That sounds like it could have been painful later in life
<bigcalm> Did you not notice the lack of acceleration?
<^2fC> Ouch!
<^2fC> What about Compiz popey, mungbean ?
<popey> what about it?
<^2fC> Would that not let me move my Icons to the bottom? or maybe move the while taskbar :\
<mungbean> ^2fC: it *used to* be possible, but not official http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYH13qQZZe8
<^2fC> :(
<^2fC> So you can only make the Icons smaller?
<^2fC> There to big, and when having alot of tasks open it gets annoying :\
<^2fC> Must be a way, theres always a way if it could be done previously then it can be done again ;) also Windows has the option :O
 * ^2fC did say he wouldnt boot another OEM Windows disc.
<mungbean> ^2fC: there are plenty other desktop environments available
<mungbean> i use elementary
<mungbean> on top of ubuntu
<^2fC> mungbean: Ah nice ok ok.
<^2fC> ah cool
<^2fC> Also can you use Compiz in 13.04 still? Like 3DCube etc.. the effects when closing Windows/Tabs/
<popey> yes, 13.04 ships with compiz by default
<^2fC> popey: ah nice, well I just checked in USC and it says its not installed just wanted to confirm before downloading/installing it...
<^2fC> How do I open it?
<popey> unity is a compiz plugin
<popey> do you mean, how do you configure it?
<^2fC> Ah yes, sorry.
<^2fC> Configure*
<popey> you can install Unity Tweak Tool which is quite good for configuring unity
<popey> there's also compizconfig-settings-manager, but be careful with that, it's possible to break unity with it
<^2fC> Ok I should try it :)
<^2fC> popey: Broke lots of previous versions of Buntu :p
<^2fC> xrestart <3
<popey> never heard of xrestart
<^2fC> \o/
<^2fC> Same thing you know what I mean ;)
<^2fC> Restarting the compiz..
<popey> ah
<^2fC> I forgot alot on Ubuntu as its been a while :D
<^2fC> Im a noob so go easy on me :P
<AlanBell> ^2fC: these days they are very big on "opinionated design"
<^2fC> AlanBell: yeah :)
<^2fC> I miss the old versions of buntu tbh.
<AlanBell> so stuff like the launcher goes on the left, and that is where it goes
<mungbean> anyone looking to get model railway for their kids? good sale on here: http://www.themodeller.com/Products/Caledonian-Belle-Train-Set__HOR-R1151.aspx
<AlanBell> notification bubbles shall not be clickable, and they will be top right
<mungbean> of course there are digital sets too :P
<^2fC> AlanBell: thanks :)
<^2fC> ooo auto hide I like..
<popey> notifications are clickable on the phone â»
<knightwise> hey everyone
<MartijnVdS> hi knightwise
<knightwise> Hey MartijnVdS
<knightwise> how are you today
<knightwise> does anyone know anything about grub ?
<knightwise> i've moved some partitions on my Macbook Pro (i dual boot osx and ubuntu)
<knightwise> now when I want to launch Ubuntu (i use REFIT as a bootloader) it give me the error /boot/grub/x86_64-efi/normal.mod not found
<knightwise> and it drops me back to a grub resque prompt
<knightwise> anyone got any ideas ?
<directhex> knightwise, did you use the refit option to rebuild your shadow mbr partition table?
<knightwise> directhex: I'm not sure , do I do that in the main menu ?
<knightwise> (of refit ? )
<directhex> knightwise, yes
<knightwise> holdon , booting into refit
<knightwise> id that the efi shell or the partitioning tool ?
<directhex> knightwise, you have two partition tables - a "real" one which is GPT, and a fake copy which is MBR. if you moved partitions around, but the fake MBR table still points to the old locations, then it'll screw up when booting due to not finding required data
<knightwise> allright so ... i start the partitioning tool ?
<MartijnVdS> gparted, I guess?
<knightwise> it says both the gpt and the mbr tables are syncronised
<directhex> knightwise, hm
<directhex> not that then
<knightwise> refit has a very basic built in partitioning tool
<knightwise> but its just for syncing those two partition tables
<knightwise> I can try to remove and reinstall refit.
<knightwise> nope :( same problem
<knightwise> Damn
<JohnRobert> hi
<MooDoo> hi
<knightwise> grrr :(
<knightwise> damn :( Now i need to reinstall 12.04 :(
<JohnRobert> .
<knightwise> and it was such a smooth running system :(
<mungbean> anyone use postgres?
<diplo> We're just about to start using it mungbean, quite new to it ourselves.. wassup ?
<AlanBell> mungbean: indirectly, we have stuff that runs on it, but we rarely do anything at the database level with it
<mungbean> trying to understand user accounts
<mungbean> following instructions that say change Ident to md5
<mungbean> then add a blah user
<mungbean> but does that disable root/postfgres user?
<mungbean> ah, Inside the psql shell you can give the DB user postgres a password:
<mungbean> ALTER USER postgres PASSWORD 'newPassword';
<mungbean> sed -i 's;127.0.0.1/32.*;127.0.0.1/32          md5;' /var/lib/pgsql/data/pg_hba.conf
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: there's a lot of info in /usr/share/doc/postgresql-common, I think
<diplo> pgAdmin for a GUI if you want it as well
<diplo> Not done much with users yet here though, it's what we're about to start working on
<mungbean> psql session hangs, may be DNS related
<MartijnVdS> DNS is for people who don't have a head for numbers
<mungbean> i used to mandate that no server can be deployed without A and PTR
<mungbean> there is no such policy here
<BigRedS> mungbean: I've got as far as generating a list of servers in that state
<BigRedS> but not quite as far as fixing them
<mungbean> i have no tomcat startup.sh , how rude
<mungbean> excluded from tomcat package on centos..weird
<dwatkins> MartijnVdS: in case you're there, you were right - ifup brings up eth0, but at boot-time, I guess that's not being called for some reason
<dwatkins>  simple fix: add "auth eth0" to /etc/network/interfaces :D thanks!
<directhex> auto?
<dwatkins> oops, yes directhex
<dwatkins> as per http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1019056
<dwatkins> I clearly write "auth" too often...
<Azelphur> finally getting Django to do cool things, yay \o/
<diplo> Like what Azelphur ?
<diplo> Keep meaning to play with it myself
<Azelphur> diplo: I got Django-CMS and Zinnia running, with Zinnia tied into Django-CMS, running my own template
<Azelphur> and Zinnia inherits the template from Django-CMS
<diplo> not heard of zinnia, googling
<diplo> Seems nice, may have to play
<diplo> Any LDAP experts in here ?
<mungbean> https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/the-great-suspender/klbibkeccnjlkjkiokjodocebajanakg?hl=en
<mungbean> interesting chrime addon
<popey> very
<AlanBell> chrime sounds like something RMS would call it :)
<bigcalm> Good evening peeps :)
<popey> pip pip
<popey> fancy some gaming later?
 * popey has a meeting for the next ~20 mins then nothing
<popey> wifey is out
<bigcalm> Sure
<bigcalm> I was about to fire it up anyway
<popey> heh
<bigcalm> Hayley is watching Don't Tell the Bride
<dwatkins> that sounds like a car crash show
<bigcalm> dwatkins: I'm keeping her company by using my laptop in the sitting room. But I have headphones in. Occasionally get distracted by the moving images but force myself back to the laptop
<bigcalm> I really hope it doesn't have an influence upon our wedding
<englis> hello
<englis> !!
<popey> lo
<englis> I have a problem installing Ubuntu
<englis> Power outage during installation
<englis> ØØ
<englis> Device now does not work
 * popey pokes bigcalm 
#ubuntu-uk 2013-06-15
<popey> Good morning
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps
<MartijnVdS> \o
<bigcalm> How are you today MartijnVdS?
<MartijnVdS> \o/ weekend :)
<MartijnVdS> about to add a drop of solder to my car usb charger
<bigcalm> Indeed, best time of the week
<MartijnVdS> (so my phone recognises it as a proper charger instead of an USB port)
<bigcalm> Poor design
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: most car chargers are for Apple stuff
<bigcalm> :(
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: and they use a non-standard way of detecting "more than 500mA" capability
<MartijnVdS> http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1906901
<bigcalm> It's so that you have to buy their stuff
<MartijnVdS> well, http://www.hackerbotlabs.com/2013/02/modding-a-usb-car-charger-for-faster-charging/ really
<popey> i thought it was because they did it before others
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: nah, it's just Chinese OEMs -> "Does it say "Charging"? OK ship it!"
<MartijnVdS> popey: they did, but then a standard was made by the USB people, and only non-Apple manufacturers actually follow that standard
<popey> interesting. which pins do you short?
<MartijnVdS> and very few charger manufacturers
<MartijnVdS> the middle 2
<popey> and does that then work on all devices?
<MartijnVdS> see the hackerbot link :)
<MartijnVdS> I think it might break for iDevices
<bigcalm> Oh, might have to follow that guide for my own car charger
<popey> ta
<popey> we bought two car chargers recently
<popey> will bust one open to look
<popey> it says 1A on the box
<MartijnVdS> mine says 2.1A on the box
<MartijnVdS> but if I plug it in in my car.. "Charging (USB)", which means 500mA max
<shauno> odd, those pins weren't connected on your charger?
<MartijnVdS> they're not connected together
<MartijnVdS> shauno: there's a bunch of resistors that does the "iphone" trick (http://learn.adafruit.com/minty-boost/icharging)
<shauno> that's kinda odd.  even on apple ones they would be
<popey> they're shorted on mine
<MartijnVdS> hmmm
<shauno> yeah, the apple ones put a different resistance between the data pins to indicate what current is availablew
<shauno> your modding link goes into full ifud mode on that one
<MartijnVdS> shauno: samsung uses the new "Charging Port" spec
<MartijnVdS> shauno: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Serial_Bus#Charging_ports_and_accessory_charging_adapters
<popey> ooh. my battery pack thing has a 1A and a 2A port, both say "Charging (AC)" when plugged in which is good to see
<shauno> eh, you can't win.  if apple did the same, people would just complain that they were just changing it so you had to buy new adaptors
<shauno> either way, if the data pins aren't connected at all, it's not because they're trying to appease apple.  it's just a $2 charger :)
<MartijnVdS> shauno: how expensive is a drop of solder these days though
<MartijnVdS> or a 1mm strip of PCB!
<bigcalm> It's a design modification which requires extensive retesting to pass industry standards
<bigcalm> Small changes cost a lot of money
<MartijnVdS> ah.. 55kOhm
<MartijnVdS> that's the resistance between the middle pins on mine
<shauno> it's not the drop of solder that's the issue.  it's that my new adaptor with the pins shorted, wouldn't charge my existing ipad properly.  and then people get all shouty about planned obsolesence
<DJones> Ugh, wish I could find a decent twitter client
<MartijnVdS> DJones: www.twitter.com
<popey> tweetdeck
<DJones> MartijnVdS: I don't like the web interface, I was using polly but with the api changes thats gone the pan, trying friends, but I prefer something that shows updates automaticallu
<DJones> popey: I've never liked tweetdeck, its great if you like multiple columns, but for a single column timeline I always found it cumbersome
<DJones> I'll have a look at it again though
<MartijnVdS> http://dx.com/p/elm327-wireless-obd-scan-tool-112586 + "Torque" app on phone = fun :)
<MartijnVdS> well, + car as well
<DJones> Is tweetdeck still available for Ubuntu
<bigcalm> Lemsip always looks and smells so nice, why does it have to taste horrible?
<MartijnVdS> it's a chrome app
<MartijnVdS> DJones: http://tweetdeck.com/
<DJones> MartijnVdS: Mac OS or Win XP only looking at the page, don't really want to use a web browser, just looking for a client that I can stick in a small window in the bottom of the screen
<MartijnVdS> https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/tweetdeck/hbdpomandigafcibbmofojjchbcdagbl ?
<MartijnVdS> works for me
<popey> i dont use the app, but the website
<DJones> MartijnVdS: Ugh, that is awful, thats the complete opposite of what I'm trying to find
<DJones> Going to have a look at Turpial to see if thats working
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<MartijnVdS> \o brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning MartijnVdS
<bigcalm> Anybody use a simple rating plugin for wordpress?
<bigcalm> Kind of like +/- of other sites such as Stackexchange
<MartijnVdS> disqus?
<brobostigon> i have the google+ thingie on drupal here, for my mums blog, not thats any one uses it.
<brobostigon> widget*
<MartijnVdS> Disqus is easy, because it works with G+, Facebook, Twitter or its own login
<MartijnVdS> most people have FB
<MartijnVdS> and/or Google
<bigcalm> I don't really want to link into another social media network
<bigcalm> Just need a way for readers to rate what they've just read - incase they find it useful or not
<bigcalm> http://wordpress.org/plugins/wp-postratings/ looks like a likely candidate
<MartijnVdS> ah
<mungbean>  ratings get trolled unless you sign in. fact
<bigcalm> I'm not overly bothered. My site isn't that popular
<mungbean> agh. batteries leaked in my gold wii remote
<mungbean> this could be useful https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/murally/nnhlnnalackljjehlfocmheepffkiihf?hl=en
<mungbean> web apps are really replacing apps. been waiting for the gnome app to mature "the board" but its gone stale
<ali1234> bigcalm: there's loads but they are all far too easy to abuse
<ali1234> if your site isn't popular nobody will rate things anyway
<MartijnVdS> time to make some tea!
<popey> Afternoon
<brobostigon> afternoonings popey'ness
<brobostigon> 5*, ghostbusters 1, :)
<MartijnVdS> ooooh :)
<MartijnVdS> oh it's not on freesat
<brobostigon> :(
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: I have the bluray]
<brobostigon> yay :)
<brobostigon> made in 1984, it is almost as old as i am, wow.
<shauno> brobostigon: are you available on bluray yet?
<brobostigon> heh :(
<brobostigon> marshmellow man, :)
<mungbean> ghostbuster was the first single i bought
<mungbean> ray parker jr
<DJones> Well thats something you don't see everyday, a woman walking down the road cradling a ferret in her arms and bottle feeding it milk
<penguin42> haha
<dwatkins> DJones: pics?
<penguin42> DJones: Where was this?
<DJones> Afraid not, I was too busy making sure my dog wasn't thinking yum, dinner
<DJones> penguin42: Cheshire
<DJones> When I spoke to her, she said her & husband were trying to find a second escaped ferret that had been seen in the area
<penguin42> DJones: Bit posh for a Ferret isn't it?  Expect them more in Bolton with the flat caps
<DJones> I don't know about posh, the only thing I know about ferrets is _not_ to put them down your trousers
<penguin42> yes, it doesn't sound like a good idea
#ubuntu-uk 2013-06-16
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<SuperMatt> morning
<brobostigon> morning SuperMatt
<knightwi1e> morning everyone
<SuperMatt> hullo
<popey> AlanBell: happy birthday!
<shauno> it's been ages (10+ years) since I was on a non-debian distro.  now I can't raise a network on 'scientific linux' and I feel like a complete fish out of water
<MartijnVdS> shauno: not even using "ip" or "ifconfig"?
 * MartijnVdS wouldn't know how to configure anything other than Debian(based) or OpenWRT distros
<MartijnVdS> well.. using google of course
<shauno> MartijnVdS: yeah, I got that far, but I can't get it to survive a reboot
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<MartijnVdS> hi bigcalm
<bigcalm> Kerbal Space Program is fun :)
<bigcalm> And oops, it's the afternoon
<penguin42> hey BC
<AlanBell> thanks popey
<christel> happy birthday old man! <3
 * AlanBell is old
<christel> yes, this is tru e:(
 * penguin42 has about 3 weeks to go before he gets older
<brobostigon> it has been said of me, i am an old man, is a young mans body.
<brobostigon> in*
 * penguin42 isn't too sure that his body isn't trying to catch up
<brobostigon> well, being diagnosed with osteoporosis and braking my right hip 4 years ago, will do that.
<penguin42> ouch, yeh - did you manage to break the hip while doing something outlandish or something that shouldn't have been able to do it?
<brobostigon> closer to the latter, it gradually became weaker, over some time, when out for the quiz on thursday, felt some pain walking home, tried to get out of bed next morning, fell on my face, it gave up underneath me.
<penguin42> ouch
<brobostigon> quite, yes.
<bigcalm> How does one find out if a package was installed from a ppa or not?
<penguin42> bigcalm: Try apt-cache policy
<bigcalm> http://paste.ubuntu.com/5771032/
<bigcalm> Looks like it didn't come from the ppa
<bigcalm> Good
<bigcalm> I've just upgraded from 12.10 to 13.04
<bigcalm> geary was one of the things I had from a ppa in 12.10
<bigcalm> Wasn't sure if it would mess up on the move
<penguin42> what's geary?
<bigcalm> penguin42: thanks :)
<bigcalm> penguin42: it's an email client
<penguin42> ah, how is it different from the other 2^68 email clients?
<funkyHat> penguin42: it's a clone of OSX's Mail.app, as far as I can tell from the screenshots
<funkyHat> Oh sorry is it a faux pas to point out when open source projects are copying Apple? á¡â¢
<bigcalm> Woop. Since upgrading to 13.04, synergy is at a modern release. Which means it works with my windows server again. Which means I don't need to faff about to client licences to do RDP
<penguin42> bigcalm: Do you get problems with Î© when you mean @?
<bigcalm> Eh?
<penguin42> on synergy when I type @ I get a Î© on the other machine
<bigcalm> Ah
<MartijnVdS> sounds like a keyboard layout issue
<bigcalm> I'm waiting for the windows server to wake up
<MartijnVdS> though that would be a cool email address separator :)
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: Yeh, although it's UK to UK
<MartijnVdS> fooÎ©bar.com
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: I think there would be a lot of resistence to such a change
<bigcalm> Pendulum: Ubuntu 13.04 (server) -> Windows 2010 server (client) : @ = @
 * penguin42 swings into bigcalm
<bigcalm> o.O
<bigcalm> I have had keyboard layout problems in the past though
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: someone in power should force it then
<Pendulum> bigcalm: you know I love you, but somehow I don't think you meant me :P
<bigcalm> Oops :)
 * bigcalm tickles Pendulum 
<bigcalm> penguin42: ^^
<MartijnVdS> pentium!
<bigcalm> People are forever tab-confusing me and BigRedS. It's only fair that other people have to suffer ;)
<daftykins> happy sunday all
<daftykins> \o
<bigcalm> Grrr
<daftykins> o hai
<popey> moo
<bigcalm> System sounds are crackly in 13.04. Spotify is just fine though
<daftykins> what would you guys do if you could procure a free LGA775 core 2 quad system? albeit minus a case
<Laney> just bought this with me tax refund
<Laney> http://www.johnlewis.com/john-lewis-sullivan-chair-plain-pink/p551464
<daftykins> bigcalm: perhaps they're clipping at too high a volume?
<bigcalm> daftykins: not that kind of crackle
<daftykins> *lost*
<bigcalm> It appears to sort itself out after a while of playing the audio though
<penguin42> daftykins: Buy a case
<daftykins> oh yeah that'd be step 1 :)
<daftykins> my file server has a pentium dual-core with no hardware VT
<daftykins> it'd kinda benefit from that i think, but at the same time it'd bump the power consumption :(
<bigcalm> Best thing about all of my tweets going to Facebook - it confuses non-coders when I tweet something codish :)
<penguin42> daftykins: What gen pentium dual is it compared to what gen Core2 quad?
<daftykins> penguin42: http://ark.intel.com/products/31733 vs. http://ark.intel.com/products/30790
<daftykins> 65 vs. 105W TDP
<daftykins> although my desktop is a Q6600 which is also a 65W TDP, so i could do a big juggle to make my desktop a tad nippier, server more capable for same power and have the 2GHz pentium DC free to perhaps give my parents
<daftykins> but i'm also a fan of not changing what works :D
<penguin42> daftykins: Will your quad actually fit in your pentium dual board?
<daftykins> yep
<penguin42> daftykins: It might not run any hotter when it's idle or only using 1 or 2 of the 4 cores
<daftykins> 'tis true, all down to speedstep i guess
<daftykins> may need a BIOS update but it'll be fine
<penguin42> I mean 105W/quad core - maybe only ~50W with 2 cores flat out?
<daftykins> yeah, i could watch my UPS stats to compare
<daftykins> hrmm, may make my downloads drive a 100% dedicated instead of OS shared too
<daftykins> 450GB is not enough for Downloads :<
<MartijnVdS> 640kb is enough for everyone
<daftykins> how clichÃ©
<daftykins> also case inaccuracy leads to unit confusion :(
<daftykins> 8pm already D:
<advancedgarde> Hello. I have a HDD with smart attribute 197 "Current Pending Sector Count" showing 65535 sectors waiting to be remapped. I've obviously backed up all data on the disk and am 99% certain that this issue was caused by a damaged SATA cable that has since been replaced. My thinking is that if a subsequent successful read to one of these suspect sectors is successful, then the flag for that sector will be cleared with
<directhex> advancedgarde, 65535 is a very special (i.e. unlikely to be true) number
<directhex> advancedgarde, seems more like a firmware bug to me
<advancedgarde> Yes, I had thought that too ^^
<advancedgarde> But I wasn't sure if I had just maxed that value in the hardware.
<directhex> i had that with a disk from work. ignored it, since none of the related pre-fail values were nonzero
<directhex> it's pretty much impossible for the pending sectors to be nonzero whilst failed sector writes is zero
<directhex> bedtime.
<advancedgarde> The HDD was part of a raid 0 Storage array. The sibling drive which is of similar age is fine.
<daftykins> advancedgarde: you could use the manufacturer utility to properly format it, might reset that value so you get peace of mind
<advancedgarde> daftykins: I will defiantly give that a shot.
<daftykins> also, you could confirm in multiple SMART utilities if that was just one
<advancedgarde> I've checked a few in windows and also smartmontools and diskutility - all give the same results so I trust the utilities even if I don't trust the numbers. Do you know where I can find a formatting utility from WD? I've only been able to find one for DOS so far which can't be right, can it?
<daftykins> it can, often you need to avoid any OS to do things at a low level
<daftykins> so WD would've linked you to 'WinDLG' aka Windows Data Lifeguard Diagnostics
<daftykins> i was able to format a flash drive with win98 boot files to make it bootable and run the DOS version
<daftykins> works a treat, although does take up your PC in the meantime :( heh
<daftykins> depending on the size of disk it can take hours to properly zero
<advancedgarde> Yes I know. Thankfully I have a spare computer I'm using. In the past I've used hirens boot CD for such thing but I don't have any CD drives at my house at the moment.
<daftykins> ah
<advancedgarde> So it looks as though WinDLG runs under windows, I'll boot into windows once badblocks is complete and see what I can do with that.
<daftykins> yeah if it's a slave drive and you don't mount the file system all should be well
<daftykins> just don't be surprised if it nukes the data, :D
<advancedgarde> Yeah it's just a storage drive and I've copied everything I need from it. But a low level format will take a long time .. 2TB u_u
<daftykins> ^_^
<daftykins> indeed
#ubuntu-uk 2014-06-09
<Amit_> hi
<DJones> Morning all
<mapps>  morning
<mapps> nice day today
<Myrtti> best way to ruin a weekend: not realising your new allergy meds need to be taken more often than once a day
<mapps> hayfever?
<Myrtti> yeah. Ive not taken it yet this.morning and sneezed six times whike writing that
<Myrtti> it gets old quite quick
<mapps> =[
<diplo> Morning all
<mapps> hey
<foobarry> i take the meds and i still sneeze 6 times anyway
<foobarry> not sure why people insist on turning on fluoro lighting when the natural light is sufficient
<Myrtti> less shadows? I don't know.
<foobarry> more squinting
<Gargoyle> foobarry: Your idea of sufficient might not be the same as someone elses. Often I will also turn on the light in a room to change the colour of the light.
<foobarry> most monitors are backlit though
<Gargoyle> foobarry: And it's not good for you to be staring at a bright monitor in a dark room.
<foobarry> its certainly not dark though :(
<Gargoyle> Just your perspective.
<foobarry> and all the others in the room before the 10% turn up who do these things
<directhex> ask your friendly safety & occupational health officer to do an evaluation on the room's lighting, to put it to rest
<foobarry> lol
<foobarry> there's dripping sewage in the corridor and dangerous objects
<Gargoyle> When I was younger I wouldn't mind so much - I'd stay up all night playing games in a fairy dark room. Now I turn on the light even when it gets overcast outside.
<foobarry> they did nowt about that
<Gargoyle> *fairly
<foobarry> its probably telling that the only glasses wearer is the light turner onner
<Gargoyle> foobarry: Do the lights being on effect you?
<foobarry> i think open plan has these annoyances and nobody is ever happy :S
<foobarry> Gargoyle: yep, its a really low ceiling and the lights shime in your eyes, most of us keep the lights off
<foobarry> should wear a cap really
<Gargoyle> foobarry: Then the lights need diffusers.
<foobarry> yep
<ali1234> http://cdn.gajitz.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/weird-laptop-privacy-sock.jpg
<ali1234> problem solved
<Gargoyle> So you're targeting your annoyance at the wrong person. :P
<foobarry> lol
<foobarry> my wife could knit me one
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<Laney> bleddy students
<Laney> House over the road from ours decided to have a house party late into the night
<Laney> why do people have to scream :|
<foobarry> cos exams are over
<foobarry> and hormones
<Laney> air rifle needed
<foobarry> of all the hayfever drugs i take, these sugar pills seem to work the best for my itchy eyes
<ali1234> i just received 1 replacement google mini from ebay. the cpu heatsink was not screwed to the motherboard, it was just loose inside. and it has knocked a component off the motherboard.
<foobarry> anyone using a chromecast with a non-supported router?
<foobarry> i have a huawei, which are not on the list
<popey> they have supported routers?
<popey> ali1234: what's a google mini?
<ali1234> a 1U server
<ali1234> that runs rhel and google search appliance
<popey> oh those
<bigcalm> Mario Kart 8 has been dispatched. Wii U has yet to be dispatched. Shame there is no intelligence behind dispatching multiple items in a single order from Tesco Direct
<popey> blimey, people buy the Wii U?
<Myrtti> bigcalm is the second person I've heard have done it
<bigcalm> I want to play Zelda in HD and Mario Kart 8. Unlikely I'll be in a rush to buy any other games for it (unless they are Lego titles)
<ali1234> mario kart 8 does look very good
<bigcalm> Anybody want to buy a Wii? ;)
<foobarry> does mario kart 8 follow the good/bad/good/bad pattern?
<foobarry> mario kart wii was good
<foobarry> mario kart SNES was good/epic
<foobarry> mario kart 64 was bad IMO
<shauno> I thought that was star trek
<foobarry> and windows releases
<shauno> nah, windows do the 'teleltubby' cycle.  eh, ow, eh, ow, eh, ow
<Wobbo> I am looking for a tool to retrieve. All not necessary spaces and carriage returns out in HTML, JavaScripts and CSS. Alle for a smartphone site. As with jQuery min stuff. Any tips?
<Wobbo> Some Linux software or site that can do this. Are addon for Aptana?
<diddledan> morning
<Myrtti> awwwwww
<Myrtti> BBC iPlayer wanted me to fill a questionnaire
<Myrtti> their scale doesn't go up to 11 :-(
<davmor2> Myrtti: 11 is hidden you just need to push the slider really hard :)
<Myrtti> what slider?
<Myrtti> they were radio buttons
<davmor2> Myrtti: man BBC suckage :)
<bigcalm> How do you alter ~/.ssh/config so that when you ssh to a remote server, it only uses an SSH key if a specific user was specified?
<awilkins> bigcalm, Isn't that specified by the server?
<awilkins> bigcalm, ie, you only use a key that is listed in that user's ~/.ssh/authorized_keys file on the server
<awilkins> So if there isn't such a file, that user will not attempt PK auth?
<bigcalm> Humm, okay
<foobarry> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBmdkhDGZ8A#t=1258 compulsory viewing 22mins-30mins for anyone thinking of a career in public sector
<foobarry> almost saved up for my new phone :P
<foobarry> Â£99.39 in amazon vouchers
<foobarry> kindle fire are cheap now :|
<diddledan> davmor2: I wasn't aware the BBC published man-pages
<davmor2> diddledan: only for ascii iplayer
<diddledan> foobarry: how have you managed to get that many amazon vouchers?
<foobarry> doing surveys
<diddledan> wow
<foobarry> initially had some birthday vouchers but only first 40quid
<foobarry> and i spent 50 quid along the way because i thought i was buying on cc but it sucked my bvouchers
<diddledan> :-(
<foobarry> i do surveys onthe laptop when i'm watching the kids
<foobarry> play trains sets etc
<foobarry> about ISPs, mobile phones
<foobarry> did a survey about the cover for the DVD of a movie the other day, choosing my favourite one
<foobarry> be interseting to see which they choose
<bigcalm> In case anybody missed it everywhere else - Rik Mayall has died
<foobarry> what?
<bigcalm> :(
<foobarry> no
<foobarry> what of?
<bigcalm> No idea
<daftykins> !
<Myrtti> davmor2: lol, @BBCiPlayer favourited my tweet about it :-D https://twitter.com/myrtti/status/475978163630395392
 * Myrtti puts her helmet on to prepare for the grammar purists
<daftykins> hahaha
<daftykins> the turn-it-to-11 does amuse
<daftykins> not getting on too well with the new iPlayer design on my smart TV, though
<daftykins> harder to find my local news now :P
<Aturnwald> Hello, I've got a Problem with Ubuntu 13.10, I can't install any packages, because the file git-daemon-sysinit is broken or corruped, so can anyone help me, please ?
<daftykins> ah i saw you in the other channel but you left too soon
<daftykins> Aturnwald: can you use paste.ubuntu.com to show the output of the terminal command "sudo apt-get -f install" ?
<Aturnwald> ahh, O.K. I even don't know, how my chat is working, because this is my 1st time I'll do chatting
<bigcalm> 13.10 reaches its End Of Life next month. Hope you can update to 14.04 soon :)
<Aturnwald> where can I move there ?
<bigcalm> (once you get apt working) :)
<Aturnwald> no, I can't update, because my computers breaks down again, and I must pay another 200 Punds to fix it
<Aturnwald> +#
<daftykins> err
<daftykins> i don't see how upgrading from one ubuntu version to another will cost you money
<Aturnwald> so, where must I pase that output ?
<daftykins> Aturnwald: so can you visit http://paste.ubuntu.com and paste that output to there?
<daftykins> it'll give you a link to paste back here so we can see
<Aturnwald> O.K. I'll try it, I'll be back soon.
<daftykins> ok
<Aturnwald> O.K. I've done it. Hope you can see it
<bigcalm> You need to paste the URL into here
<Myrtti> btw if anyone is interested, E3 is on, stream started on XBox.
<Aturnwald> chers, here it is, hopefully paste.ubuntu.com/7618927/
 * daftykins looks
<bigcalm> Thank goodness for Google translate :)
<daftykins> lol german
<Aturnwald> ohh, sorry, noremally it should be in  english, but right now I cant change it
<Aturnwald> No, it's not German, it's from Bavaria, a really south point there, smile
<bigcalm> Chromium offered to translate it, it's readable enough :)
<daftykins> having trouble with translate here
<daftykins> Aturnwald: yeah i had a housemate from there once in Uni time ;)
<Aturnwald> #no, my English is good enough, because I studied in Scotland
<daftykins> Aturnwald: can you run "sudo dpkg -r git-daemon-sysvinit" ?
<bigcalm> Aturnwald: can you do this? sudo apt-get update
<daftykins> Aturnwald: please pastebin it running
<Aturnwald> O.K. give me a litte time
<Aturnwald> give me a little time ,please
<bigcalm> No rush :)
<daftykins> yeah, we're here
<NET||abuse> updatedto 14.04, have a bug in chromium, will have to test firefox and google-chrome, if i click and drag a highlighted text on a webpage, the tab freezes. i can ctrl+w close the tab and ctrl+shift+t reopen it and all is well, other tabs are unaffected.
<bigcalm> Text
<bigcalm> NET||abuse: Works for me :)
<NET||abuse> ok, seems to only be chromium
<daftykins> NET||abuse: try a clean profile maybe, since you upgraded
<bigcalm> NET||abuse: works for me in chromium
<NET||abuse> daftykins: didn't upgrade, did fresh install
<NET||abuse> just restored data here and there.
<daftykins> ok
<NET||abuse> weirdness :P
<daftykins> so, did the profile come back in? :)
<NET||abuse> not sure it's any chrome plugins,,,
<NET||abuse> i have my login on both chromium and google-chrome with plugins/extensions sync'd so have all the same plugins on both
<NET||abuse> but it's only happening on chromium.. odd
<NET||abuse> still have to update my graphics setup
<Aturnwald> he number is 7618970
<NET||abuse> have the optimus stuff to get going yet..
<NET||abuse> 14.04 and it's new support is really interesting.
<daftykins> Aturnwald: your chosen repositories appear to be a very odd address
<daftykins> private-ppa.launchpad.net
<Aturnwald> what ??
<daftykins> are you familiar with repos?
<Aturnwald> aehh, no , What is this ?
<daftykins> eh nevermind for a moment
<Aturnwald> Can't you read that Text that I've posted, right now ?
<daftykins> yes of course
<Aturnwald> the 2nd part was to long for the memory, I think, so there is ony what I'll got
<Aturnwald> I tried to uninstall on a few ways that file, but it doesen't compute
<popey> private-ppa.launchpad.net are from purchased games
<popey> or apps
<daftykins> popey: hmm if a package isn't installed how do you get it to shut up about it? :D
<daftykins> it's obviously trying to put it on
<Aturnwald> when I try to install a file ove the Terminal or the other way, the Computer say that it can't be done, because the git-daemon-sysinit is broken, or something else.
<Aturnwald> So I tried to uninstall it, and it would work, because the file is broken
<daftykins> yes, we saw that in the first paste
<Aturnwald> before I start the chat I tried a few things, that I found on the net, and nothing worked
<daftykins> do you remember what? :)
<Aturnwald> what do you mean ?
<daftykins> what you tried
<Aturnwald> Ahh, Hold on, I'll read it again, if I found them, take some time
<daftykins> if you ran commands in the terminal, "history" might show what you ran
<Aturnwald> O.K: I'll found it on ubuntu forums February 3rd 2013 DesertFox001 "Can't update or install Programs, Packages Corrupt ? "
<Aturnwald> Ahh, and where is the history
<daftykins> you type "history" in terminal
<Aturnwald> here is the line, where you can read it, what I've done Http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?r=2112029
<Aturnwald> smile, I found the history, should I paste it too ?
<daftykins> sure why not
<daftykins> the above forum link didn't work by the way
<Aturnwald> also I paste what I found on the net, but I entered in the Text only that Line, there it was standinmg Code, and the Number is 7619067
<davmor2> Myrtti: now they favourited my reply to yours :)
<diddledan> davmor2: your twitter avatar scares me
<diddledan> davmor2: you have a hole in your head
<davmor2> diddledan: how else do you get food into your stomach
<davmor2> :P
<diddledan> hmm
<daftykins> Aturnwald: what did this one output? "sudo dpkg --purge --force-remove-reinstreq git-daemon-sysvinit"
<Aturnwald> it says that the file to remove woukld be ignored
<daftykins> does it say why?
<Aturnwald> because it isn't installed, but on the other Programm, where you can get the files, there is the answer of the fault, that the file is there
<daftykins> right but a forum can't tell you what's true of your system
<daftykins> to be honest, your system seems to be in quite a mess
<Aturnwald> yeaa, that I'll know,too. But a forum can tell me how I can uninstall a file
<daftykins> there's evidence of you trying to install redhat packages on here too, haha
<Aturnwald> because, I can't install any programs right now
<Aturnwald> uii, that I didn't know
<Aturnwald> so, what can I do ? a new install again, or something elese ?
<Aturnwald> the damage happens when I installed a file from Ubnutu software cengter
<daftykins> well, as someone said earlier, it's not worth fixing your 13.10 install when it only has one month left of support
<daftykins> so, why not backup and clean install 14.04? :)
<Aturnwald> listen, I tried to install 14.04, but at the 1st time my Laptop brokes, on a CHIP failure
<daftykins> an operating system did not break your hardware
<Aturnwald> the I bought a brand new Laptop, and I removed the blody Windows and I installed 14.04, and again it would work, because of the EFI fail
<diddledan> a CHIP failure? whta's one of those?
<Aturnwald> so I decieded to install 13.10
<daftykins> Aturnwald: ok but there are ways to make EFI installs work, or to install without EFI.
<Aturnwald> it was a UK HP Laptop, a couple of days late I've got the Mail from Ubuntu, that I should not install 14.04 on my laptop, but it was to late for me#
<daftykins> mail?
<daftykins> that sounds pretty serious
<Aturnwald> O.K. so please tell me the way how it works
<daftykins> well there's no point discussing it unless you're going to do it
<daftykins> !uefi
<lubotu3> UEFI is a specification that defines a software interface between an operating system and platform firmware. It is meant as a replacement for the BIOS. For information on how to set up and install Ubuntu and its derivatives on UEFI machines please read https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UEFI
<Aturnwald> Yeaa, a Mail, because I'll worte a bug report on the Main center pof Ubuntu in US, and a couple of days there came the mail
<Aturnwald> O.K. I'll read the side
<daftykins> there's some information there, but also a lot of the time you can just disable EFI and try to install legacy
<MartijnVdS> but that's uaually not necessary
<Aturnwald> NO, 14.04 runs on my system, when I install it, but on the 1st new boot, it collapse, because during a blank screen
<MartijnVdS> just disabling Securt Boot  should do the trick
<MartijnVdS> oh!
<MartijnVdS> Aturnwald: does it have one of those nvidia/intel hybrid video card horrors?
<Aturnwald> yeaa, yeaa, that I'll did
<Aturnwald> No, it has nothing to do with the card, it is the Laptop ASUS
<diddledan> my brian is starting to hurt
<Aturnwald> by the way, a popup came right now on, and it says that I can do a part time update of my software, so should I press O.K: or not ?7
<daftykins> diddledan: ikr
<daftykins> Aturnwald: i think there's too much of a language barrier here, did you try joining #ubuntu-de ?
<Aturnwald> O.K. but thanks for your help, have a nice day, cheerio Toni
<daftykins> o/
<Myrtti> davmor2: yeah I noticed
<mapps> hey all
<daftykins> heya
<daftykins> what's new?
<mapps> not much, same as usual..just been watching judge judy
<mapps> lol
<mapps> about to watch rest of 'Blended' adam sandler film..not expecting much..not a huge sandler fan
<daftykins> 0o
<daftykins> i'm watching the xbox E3 event
<daftykins> big yawn so far
<mapps> :D
<mapps> the apple wwdc was interesting
<mapps> ios8 ftw
<mapps> :P
<daftykins> yeah i watched that
<daftykins> nothing a big deal though
<mapps> i thought it looked pretty neat
<mapps> i liked how OSX Yosemite links up with iOS
<daftykins> you're a fanboi though ;)
<mapps> so you can answer calls via the desktop
<daftykins> yeah, all phones should have that
<mapps> and umm also how the imessage communications are seamles between ipad/iphone/macbook
<Myrtti> yay rain \o/
<daftykins> mapps: great if you love a walled garden messaging system :>
<mapps> grr
<mapps> but
<mapps> imessage is good..
<mapps> couple of cheap shots at android during the vid as im sure you saw;p
<daftykins> *shrug* whatsapp and SMS on android here
<daftykins> yeah those made them look like absolute idiots
<mapps> quite funny how OTT they are like both Craig and Tim
<mapps> 'it's absolutely amazing, exciting, bla bla'
<mapps> heh
<daftykins> indeed, very hyped
<diddledan> mapps: I've got yosemite and ios8 installed already
<diddledan> mapps: I haven't noticed much difference for my day-to-day
<diddledan> I forgot to look to see whether they've put me under NDA (who actually reads T&C?!)
<daftykins> diddledan: ;D dat transparency though?
<daftykins> seemed to be what they were so excited about
<diddledan> meh
<daftykins> i mean, to me as an outsider, Mavericks looks outdated
<diddledan> apple have mostly focused on hardware I guess
<diddledan> "it looks pretty because moar pixels"
<daftykins> then hilariously change their design to something so minimal it doesn't particularly need pixels 8)
<diddledan> good point
<diddledan> I can't say I particularly like flat
<diddledan> the one thing that pseudo 3d does that flat doesn't is provide visual clues as to what's clickable
<daftykins> indeed
<diddledan> I guess people don't want real-world things emulated anymore
<diddledan> e.g. buttons
<daftykins> i guess the only way to appear to innovate was to go backwards :)
<mapps> diddledan you on the ios developer programme?
<diddledan> yeah
<ali1234> argh the hard drive has been wiped anyway
<daftykins> ?
<ali1234> a "new" google mini was purchased
<ali1234> it arrived with a loose heatsink which had knocked components off the board
<ali1234> i spent all day soldering them back on
<ali1234> then i spent a bit longer running ddrescue on the faulty hard drive
<ali1234> but it is blank anyway
<daftykins> >_<
<ali1234> so the whole thing was a complete waste of time
<ali1234> and all i have is a cheap old server with no operating system and a pretty blue 1U case
<ali1234> the hard drive makes a noise like coins in a washing machine too
<ali1234> i'm surprised they were even able to wipe it
<daftykins> haha
<daftykins> i got quoted Â£35 to replace a single MOSFET on a laptop motherboard
<ali1234> yeah that's abut what it costs
<ali1234> it takes ages to take laptops apart
<daftykins> no i handed them the board
<daftykins> and parts from ebay
<ali1234> lol
<ali1234> why didn't you just do it yourself?
<daftykins> because i've never soldered
<ali1234> at that point you might as well
<daftykins> the MOSFET is like 5mm long with 8 legs
<daftykins> that doesn't strike me as training territory :>
<ali1234> those are eeeeeasy
<ali1234> just practice a bit first
<daftykins> too late now
<ali1234> sounds like TSOP
<ali1234> the only thing you can't really do yourself by hand is BGA when all the "pins" are actually under the chip
<daftykins> ali1234: https://www.dropbox.com/s/dsn3zgjbssrzjz4/IMG_20140512_145941.jpg
<daftykins> that's the one :) only thing obviously damaged after a wine spill
<ali1234> PQ59? yea that's a TSOP
<ali1234> cleaning the corrosion up might be tricky if there is any, which it looks like there is
<daftykins> i just got two replacements off ebay for Â£2
<daftykins> it's an IR MOSFET, i was able to read the micro print :D
<ali1234> they're not terribly hard to solder in as long as the pad is cleanish
<daftykins> yeah who knows what he'll find under that black
<ali1234> hopefully it won't look like this: https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-UdrygEbDVaU/UQJ6CFwYgsI/AAAAAAAABJ8/aRs4enr33LE/w1208-h906-no/IMG_20130125_121233.jpg
<daftykins> erk >_<
<ali1234> that was a bad battery leak... that stuff eats copper traces
<daftykins> ah i wondered why it looked pretty oldish
<daftykins> is that a printer?
<ali1234> no, it's an A4000 from 1990s :)
<daftykins> i saw 'Ricoh' and thought of the printers at my clients
<ali1234> that is the real time clock chip
<ali1234> powered by the battery which has been removed from the space in the bottom right
<ali1234> which leaked all over everything
<ali1234> the resistor bank and the chip all had to be replaced, with jumper wires for the damaged circuits, plus that through hole capacitor should be a SMT one
<daftykins> nasty stuff indeed
<ali1234> you know, looking at your picture, PQ22 and the caps next to it look a bit manky
<ali1234> it's really hard to tell from photos though
<daftykins> oh yeah
<daftykins> perhaps it will be dead then
<daftykins> there are some more shots
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/92rmnw78ysqf1jx/AACGz4hO0cTwY8mLcH9GQvlga
<daftykins> in fact yeah that one does not look good, the smaller one between the square job and the pair
<diddledan> *sigh* c'mon facebook stargate sg1 page, think of something a bit more challenging than that why don't you?! They request fans to "Fill in the blank: "Thor is the Supreme ________.""
<daftykins> badger!
<diddledan> now that I'd like to see
<daftykins> i'm actually a stargate fan and can't answer that =/
<diddledan> the answer would be "commander" or for extra bonus points "commander of the asgard fleet"
<dogmatic69_> anyone got ideas as to how I can rsync (or another method) from local to remote and have remote keep the permissions / acl given?
<dogmatic69_> I have tried just about every 'tutorial' on the net and they all get the perms modified and acl dropped
<diddledan> dogmatic69_: ACLs are still a bit unsupported in a lot of stuff
<dogmatic69_> diddledan: ok, but normal owner/group keeps changing also
<dogmatic69_> and it drops the x bit on executable files
<diddledan> oic, you _don't_ want the perms to change
<dogmatic69_> no
<diddledan> I believe you just don't pass the -p flag then
<dogmatic69_> its a website, so I set up with www-data, rsynced with user that is in www-group
<dogmatic69_> ye, that is what all the sites say
<dogmatic69_> and does not work :(
<diddledan> note that -a will probably set -p no matter what
<dogmatic69_> yep, I dont use -a / -p
<dogmatic69_> also tried with --no-group/user etc
<daftykins> do they get preserved within archives?
<dogmatic69_> -a is archive
<diddledan> daftykins: they can do, or they can not do
<daftykins> like .tar
<daftykins> oic
<diddledan> daftykins: it depends on the extraction args
<dogmatic69_> I was wondering if its better to maybe zip / gzip and upload, then extract over
<daftykins> *nod*
<diddledan> tar xf foo.tar <-- won't preserve perms from source host whereas this will --> tar xpf foo.tar
<dogmatic69_> so if I done tar xf files.tar it would keep the servers settings
<diddledan> note that the tarchive will always store the perms but the extraction can choose whether to utilise that data or discard
<dogmatic69_> sure
<dogmatic69_> and tar has --acls
<mapps> argh
<mapps> my neck hurts
<mapps> :<
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/x9uv7bzfbeckjq2/IMG_20140609_163502.jpg
<daftykins> picked up a neat little print from a local gallery today
<mapps> nice
<mapps> thats pretty cool
<daftykins> :>
<daftykins> i thought i could haggle so i turned up and said "i'd like to make an offer on that"
<daftykins> but she said "well you can pay the price that's on it!"
<mapps> heh
<dogmatic69_> ok I have found that rsync has --acls, but that makes remote have locals acl. Is there something to just keep remote acls then?
<dsample> Hi. I'm having a problem installing 14.04 from a USB stick. I've made a bootable ISO using unetbootin and startup disk creator but both ways the result is the same. It seems to boot from the USB stick but then gives the grub menu from the normal HDD
<dsample> I think it might be because the device IDs change from SDA=HDD, SDB=USB to SDA=USB, SDB=HDD when booting from the USB
<dsample> Anyone have an idea how I can get the USB stick to boot correctly?
<daftykins> why do they always leave so soon ;_;
<ali1234> does anyone know how to make a search engine with nutch and solr? :S
<diddledan> http://leapseconds.co.uk/
<diddledan> ermagerd it's a merth!
<diddledan> damned things getting in while my back's turned
<Myrtti> daftykins: who?
<daftykins> people asking questions
<Myrtti> daftykins: you would've had a solution?
<daftykins> sure
<daftykins> or at least tried to help
<Myrtti> I can pass it down to him
<daftykins> lurking in another channel?
<Myrtti> better
<daftykins> to be honest it's 20 to 1 and a bit late to start now :)
<Myrtti> snoring next to me
<Myrtti> yeah it is
<daftykins> hahaha
<daftykins> well, there's always tomorrow :)
<Myrtti> yeah
<daftykins> but Myrtti, you should wield your Linux skills in said scenario too! :)
<Myrtti> I've idea what's wrong, it boots to grub rather than the try/install prompt
<Myrtti> I think he might've found the answer some years ago But that won't help here
<ali1234> i don't really see how you can get from the USB menu to the hard drive without selecting "boot first hard drive" - but maybe that is the only option and it is auto selecting it
<ali1234> regardless, i'd try just dd'ing the ISO to the USB, and not using those creator tools
<daftykins> ^
<daftykins> what i would've said.
<Myrtti> I think he tried dd too
<Myrtti> But I'll pass that to him too
<daftykins> i'd be curious where those device IDs were coming from
<Myrtti> it's an old lenovo with two hard drives
<Myrtti> So it might get them mixed Up
<ali1234> sda/sda etc is totally logical and only affects anything after linux has booted
<ali1234> grub uses different IDs
<daftykins> ooooh i actually read that line wrong the first time
<daftykins> seein SDA and SDB in capitals somehow my tired eyes saw USB
<daftykins> *seeing
#ubuntu-uk 2014-06-10
<diddledan> capitals ftl
<diddledan> or should that be "FTL"?
<daftykins> ;)
<diddledan> I just found this: http://www.iflscience.com/space/free-flowing-water-discovered-equator-mars
<diddledan> consider my mind well and truly blown
<shauno> diddledan: you found water on mars?
<diddledan> shauno: yeah
<diddledan> shauno: obv I'm not the first to find it
<shauno> That's going to ruin everything for me.  Now when an article says "scientists say" I'm going to assume they mean you
<SuperMatt> word up peeps
<Myrtti> oh noes
<Myrtti> now I want to buy shoes :-|
<SuperMatt> sorry
<Myrtti> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Nokian-Footwear-Julia-Lundsten-LU120-01-39/dp/B00F8MB6M6/
<SuperMatt> those... are not pretty
<Myrtti> would you rather in yellow?
<SuperMatt> nope
<SuperMatt> sorry
<Myrtti> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Nokian-Footwear-Julia-Lundsten-LUS123-78-40/dp/B00J2FB1TS ?
<Myrtti> anyway, it's more about the functionality
<Myrtti> they're not completely hideous like normal wellies, almost look like normal shoes, and not full length either
<Myrtti> maybe with woollen socks they'd go for all terrain winter shoes in UK ;-)
 * awilkins uses stompy military boots from Yorkshire as his daily shoe.
<SuperMatt> I guess those second ones are more pretty
<SuperMatt> I don't know, I'm just a guy
<SuperMatt> I've got other things on my mind right now
<awilkins> Guys can generally just get away with owning 2 or 3 pairs of shoes
<Myrtti> awilkins: I just found http://www.amazon.co.uk/Nokian-Footwear-Julia-Lundsten-LU120-01-39/dp/B00F8MB6M6/
<awilkins> Holy potato
<awilkins> I know someone who'd love those. But if I spend that on a pair of shoes I expect them to be useful for virtually everything...
<Myrtti> awilkins: well, they are wellies, so they'd pretty much be useful for virtually everything. They aren't obviously wellies...
<Myrtti> might pass as normal shoes?
<awilkins> Hmm, maybe
<Myrtti> and I've actually paid more for shoes than what those are
<awilkins> Oh, likewise, but only once :-)
<Myrtti> contrary to many people I know I actually spend Â£amounts to shoes that have not just looks but usability and quality too, not just a 5 inch heel and pretty colour
<Myrtti> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/3over7/the-wool-runners-no-socks-no-smell <--
<awilkins> http://www.altberg.co.uk/product/warrior-aqua-black/   <- my current "shoes"
<awilkins> The wooly shoes seem like a good idea
<Myrtti> my kicks: http://imgs.inkfrog.com/pix/sksports1/407992-050_001_001.JPG
<awilkins> See, they are veering into the territory of ostentatious
<awilkins> I like my running shoes to be grey and nondescript and functional
<Myrtti> I don't run :-P
<awilkins> Which means that it's terribly difficult to actually find a pair that i) meets this requirement ii) fit iii) actually provide shock absorbance for running
<awilkins> Last time I went shopping for runners I was gobsmacked by how LOUD they all ar
<awilkins> e
<awilkins> Backlight on my Windows laptop just failed. Thought this was impossible since it was an LED backlight.
<awilkins> Suspect the graphics drivers are wrong.
<bashrc> morning
<Myrtti> ahhhhh bliss. Allergy medicine that works
<awilkins> Very Strong Antihistamines?
<awilkins> Topical corticosteroid spray?
<Myrtti> no, just cetirizine, I just tried the other variants to see if they'd make me less groggy
<Myrtti> that experiment failed because they didn't make me groggy but didn't work either
<foobarry> so cetirizine > loratadine?
<Myrtti> atleast in my use
<foobarry> but make u tired
<Myrtti> it's a coin toss
<foobarry> email from google recruiter, with some funny copy pastes in a larger font
<foobarry> coupled with your leadership qualities ($CURRENT EMPLOYER BIG FONT) looked relevant..
<diddledan> foobarry: teh googles want to hire you?!
<foobarry> rather google external recruiters are on a commission hunt
<diddledan> aah
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<diddledan> allo
<bashrc> had an email from a google recruiter about a year ago
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<diddledan> me too
<diddledan> when I got around to actually responding the person appeared to have disappeared from google's mailserver
<foobarry> lol
<foobarry> recruiters be recruiters
<foobarry> parasites somewhere in the region of estate agents
<foobarry> but both above footballer's agents
<diplo> Morning all
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Iced Tea Day! :-D
<directhex> iced tea sucks! iced coffee rules! woo!
<bigcalm> I quite like estate agents - only because we're buying a house and not selling one :)
<funkyHat> I would say that recruiters are a few rungs above estate agents
<popey> dropped car off for MoT, walked back.. took an hour
<popey> stopped off at the butcher to get some BBQ provisions along the way â»
<brobostigon> :)
<cocoa117> after you changed the owner's belong group, how do you make it affect without actually logout?
<popey> directhex: guessing that GTA5 will be "Windows" when it says "PC" in the Fall?
<directhex> popey, mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmostly guaranteed
<directhex> popey, 2k, the publisher, are slowly on-board with steamos. but they're very hands-off with rockstar, and rockstar are not mac friendly. mac friendliness is a good indicator, in larger studios, of potential linux friendliness
<popey> â¹
<Laney> did they finally announce a ps4 release?
<bigcalm> Anything exciting coming to the Wii U? :)
<foobarry> $MARIO_GAME version=X++
<Laney> Price: Â£64.99
<Laney> !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
<directhex> Laney, gta5? yes
<directhex> bigcalm, nintendo's e3 presentation hasn't happened yet
<Laney> yeah just found it
<bigcalm> directhex: fair enough. I'm waiting for my Wii U to be delivered. Expecting Nintendo to go out of business once it gets here
<directhex> the last game i properly played was on wiiu
<directhex> and i have ac4 on wiiu to play
<bigcalm> What's ac4?
<Myrtti> Assassin's Creed
<bigcalm> Ah
<Myrtti> Assassin's Creed is brilliant.
<bigcalm> They make "adult" games for the Wii?
<Myrtti> I'm not sure how AC5 is going to pan out
<Myrtti> the video of the gameplay they showed last night left me a bit bemused
<popey> i was surprised the AI seemed dumb enough to let the player walk right up to all those soldiers
<popey> No Man's Sky looks pretty
<popey> I like open world type games, especially procedurally generated ones
<directhex> bigcalm, attempts were made to make adult games for the wii, invariably they met financial disaster
<directhex> bigcalm, e.g. check "madworld" on youtube
<Myrtti> Assassin's Creed tho â¥
<awilkins> No Man's Sky looks very ambitious, graphics style reminds me of Outcast
<awilkins> If it's half as fun as the trailer it should be pretty fun
<foobarry> remember that game spore?
<davmor2> foobarry: the one with the rootkit?
<awilkins> I remember Spore but never bought it
<foobarry> lots of hype, nobody ever mentions it any more
<foobarry> yeah i heard DRM killed it
<bashrc> yeah it was a DRM-fest
<bashrc> spore was disappointing and could have been a lot more interesting if they had real evolution going on
<bashrc> i.e. a alife sumilation, but with a game element to it
<popey> I quite like Godus
<SuperEngineer> whooppee! at home for 2 days - doing a WBT thing but found out last night I can't log on till a remote prob gets sorted.
<SuperEngineer> So last night I nerfed by home dir - proved it was useless - & overnight took the opportunity to see if not just my backup plan works, but my restore plan works.  It does!
<SuperEngineer> So now I have taken the chance to remove 12.04 & separate home partition [with all restore proved] ;)
<SuperEngineer> ...and I am now a 14.04 user!
<bigcalm> Welcome to the club
<SuperEngineer> bigcalm: thanks
<daftykins> i need to work out what all the changes are in samba since 10.04 at some point
<daftykins> i tried to set up a test share on a system the other day to no avail X|
<SuperEngineer> [only disappointment I have - outwighed by many "happies" though - is that I have come to rely on compiz Expo and shunting the mouse to one corner to show all workspaces... this looses it's "setting" after reboots [though it's still there in compiz manager so I have to reset it to the same as it was, doh!]
 * SuperEngineer wtches progress bar for Steam install - & ponders wether to download the games again or hope the old steamapps folder will be recognised... nbah! let's make the broadbanddo some work] ;)
<daftykins> is English not your mother tongue? ;)
<foobarry> ok i been trying to read a pdf on screen for an hour and i'm on page 7
<foobarry> fortunately there's a mobi to read on my ebook reader
<foobarry> even swivelling the screen to portrait mode helped not.
<daftykins> can be pretty easy to lose place on a screen eh?
<foobarry> just not conducive for reading books
<Myrtti> Fujifilm X-S1 on Amazon flash sale now for 225, if anyone's interested
<daftykins> wow
<daftykins> although i don't do cameras
<Myrtti> I seem to just order weird stuff that I can't find anywhere else
<Myrtti> and in bulk.
<Myrtti> case in point my latest order
<daftykins> a billion toilet paper rolls?
<Myrtti> Citric Acid 1Kg Bulk Tub,  2 x Unibond 450g Humidity Absorber Power Tab Refills (Pack of 2), Gall soap (2 pcs. x 100 gr.), set of 5 baroque pearl elastic bracelets.
<daftykins> wat
<Myrtti> citric acid, for cleaning both the laundry and dish washing machines
<Myrtti> humidity absorber tabs, because no diy store seems to stock them anymore
<SuperEngineer> daftykins: English most def is my mother [& father tongue - no sexism from me!] - keyboarding is unfortunately not always wonderful - used to be but following a r-e-a-l-l-y bad car crash yonks ago - I type one thing & sometimes it comes out as another thing - I have learned to find it funny
<Myrtti> gall soap to get rid of sweat stains in dsample's work shirts
<daftykins> SuperEngineer: ah :) my apologies
<Myrtti> baroque pearl elastic bracelets, because I broke my friendship bracelet I had on my wrist for months
<SuperEngineer> daftykins: none need - like I said -  I have learned to find it funny
<SuperEngineer> *needed
<SuperEngineer> ;)
<Myrtti> I understood that perfek :-P
<Myrtti> or should I say perfick
<davmor2> ah fentimans ginger beer the best
<Myrtti> alcoholic?
<SuperEngineer> Myrtti: only if you lean on a non-existant bar counter and do the complete fall down bit :P
<daftykins> XD
<daftykins> "Know what I mean?"
<davmor2> Myrtti: only very mildly it's more of a pop than crabbies 0.05% or something like
<Myrtti> davmor2: I couldn't find the Crabbies alcoholic one in Finland but I could find Fentimans, oddly enough. Price was a bit steep but I liked it and I was doing the Swedish chipboard puzzle so I felt like something better than the bogstandard Finnish sweet cider was in order
<Myrtti> installation fuel, so to say
<davmor2> Myrtti: yeah Fentimans is damned expensive here I bought a create at the wholesalers though which saved a fair bit of money :)
<foobarry> so goat simluator is real?
<daftykins> sure
<TwistedLucidity> foobarry: And hilarious looking.
<foobarry> thought it was an april fool joke
<daftykins> find videos of the guy 'Robbaz' playing it on youtube
<daftykins> he seems quite amusing
<diddledan> hmm, I'm struggling with ipsec tunnelling
<diddledan> it might be easier if I did it strongswan-to-strongswan rather than mikrotik to swan
<directhex> civ5 linux now shipping
<mapps> HEY ALL
<mapps> civ?
<daftykins> civilisation
<mapps> aha
<mapps> whats that
<shauno> o_O
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/txvpeyk728i45h7/IMG_20140610_181424.jpg
<daftykins> today's craptop, is a Toshiba
<mapps> damn my nets slow atm
<mapps> what u doing with it
<daftykins> so it's allegedly powering off during use... yet i ran prime95 to max temps and it seems fine :/
<daftykins> the vents were totally clear already so it's not simple heat
 * Myrtti prods dsample to fire up Xchat
<mapps> any ideas about my craptop..the old dell that sounds like a freaking plane..took it apart and it aint the fan
<daftykins> how'd you confirm that?
<mapps> the fan wasnt turning iirc and it was still making this crazy noise
<mapps> could it be the PSU?
<daftykins> that would be the brick outside of it.
<mapps> what do you mean?
<daftykins> so i'd hope you could tell which part the sound was coming from :D
<mapps> well
<mapps> it wasnt the fan
<mapps> thats for sure
<daftykins> the AC adapter brick is the equivalent of the PSU in a way
<mapps> theres no battery in it
<mapps> as the battery died
<daftykins> pulled the drives?
<mapps> hdd and dvd?
<mapps> i didnt no
<daftykins> run a liveUSB of a Linux whilst no other drives are in
<daftykins> not so much optical, just HDD really
<mapps> aha
<mapps> ok thatl be the next call
<mapps> if its the PSU on the mobo? i guess its a bin job
<mapps> ?
<daftykins> laptops don't really work that way :D
<daftykins> is it a rushing of air sound?
<mapps> il link it to u
<mapps> sec
<mapps> might format my netbook before i go away
<mapps> czech rep on friday:D
<daftykins> wow that is... non-descript
<mapps> ??
<daftykins> that sound is not obvious
<mapps> yea
<mapps> its mnot the fan tho
<daftykins> must be a small lego man doing pneumatic drill work inside there
<daftykins> :>
<daftykins> yeah i'd pull drives, get it down to the most basic config
<daftykins> is it actually failing to function or is it just that noise?
<Myrtti> daftykins: thanks for the dd reminder, the laptop booted now to the usb proper
<daftykins> \o/
<daftykins> yay for winning
<mapps> it works daftykins
<mapps> boots up into centos and all is fine
<mapps> except that noise;p
<daftykins> and running CentOS
<daftykins> ;D
<daftykins> clearly you just miss the ECE department
<mapps> lol
<mapps> yes
<mapps> :D
<daftykins> Â£13.19 for a 12 gramme tube of arctic silver 5 delivered
<daftykins> day-um
<mapps> but yea it works fine...except the pesky noise
<mapps> it isnt the fan clearly..cant be the hdd surely? as its booting off the hdd?
<mapps> you say laptops work diff when i mention a PSU there must be some kinda PSU..could it be that?
<ali1234> it can be the HD
<daftykins> well they tend to be solid state components
<daftykins> (power regulation stuffs)
<ali1234> it can also be another fan
<daftykins> link ali1234 to the sound, he knows electronics more than me
<mapps> hmm
<ali1234> or it can be the DC-DC coils whining
<mapps> https://soundcloud.com/mapito/pc
<mapps> in all its glory
<daftykins> then be ready to pause at the end as it drops into music
<daftykins> :>
<ali1234> wow
<ali1234> that's not the HD
<mapps> lol daftykins
<ali1234> and it doesn't sound like a fan either
<daftykins> it sounds like an angry iguana
<mapps> any suggestions
<mapps> :<
<ali1234> that actually sounds like the PC speaker
<daftykins> ooh yeah that's a fair point
<mapps> so maybe i should disconnect that? i assume i can
<mapps> i didnt even think of that
<mapps> lol
<ali1234> well just put your finger on it
<mapps> ok not sure where it is, i guess its obvious O_o
<ali1234> it's wherever the sound is coming from...
<daftykins> XD
<mapps> unless its not the speaker;p
<mapps> heh
<ali1234> it probably doesn't have a PC speaker if it's a laptop
<ali1234> could be a sound card issue though
<mapps> yea it is a laptop
<ali1234> have you also got photos?
<mapps> of the internals of the laptop? nope
<mapps> didnt think about it
<ali1234> best bet is to just feel around for where the noise is coming from
<mapps> ok will do, thanks:D a job for tomorrow..i put it all back together just tokeep it together heh
<ali1234> the sound is too regular to come from the HD... and it's too bassy to come from a fan... it sounds like a speaker being hit by an overpowered square wave... like a flapping sound
<ali1234> PC speaker is of course driven by square wave, but it could also be the sound card
<awilkins> Cable dangling in a fan?
<ali1234> what does it sound like when you turn it on?
<ali1234> does it instantly start making that noise or does it slowly get louder? or faster?
<mapps> its ok at first then after 30sec-a minute noise starts
<mapps> it can start quicker than that but usuall after say 15-20sec
<mapps> starts the noise like it is instantly
<ali1234> that makes me think it isn't mechanical
<ali1234> and it coming from the speakers
<ali1234> (cos if it's not mechanical there's nothing else that could make a sound like that other than a speaker)
<ali1234> unless... could be the cdrom if you have one?
<mapps> yea there is one
<ali1234> it's unlikely though... the sound is just too bassy
<ali1234> actually... if the fan isn't spinning at all it maybe could make that noise
<ali1234> if it was jammed or something
<mapps> ah
<SuperEngineer> Well that's 12.04 wiped & 14.04 in. Installed, configured, extras downloaded & configured - all sorted [except for Steam games.. that'll happen will I sleep tonight] ;)
<SuperEngineer> 14.04 - Approved by SuperEngineer - ythat's official folks
<daftykins> \o/
<SuperEngineer> *that's
<SuperEngineer> only minus points - missing status bar in nautilus & lifrea [Linux Feed Reader] will *not* keep it's settings.  I can live with that.
<mapps> :D
<mapps> what was it you put on a netbook?
<mapps> thought it was you..cant remember
 * SuperEngineer applauds all the devs & contibutors
<SuperEngineer> mapps: yup
<SuperEngineer> that's the one with Lubuntu on it
<mapps> ah cool
<mapps> just normal rls no netbook specific?
 * SuperEngineer runs Ubuntu on desktop, Xubuntu on HP mini, Lubuntu on Asus netbook
<mapps> ;]
<SuperEngineer> ...proof of "a buntu for all seasons" :)
<SuperEngineer> got a pooter - we got a buntu just for you!
<mapps> i got ubuntu on laptop/desktop well xubuntu on old desktop/server :)
<SuperEngineer> hah! tomaaato, tom*a*to - it's a darn tasty thing to eat ;)
<mapps> i need to get a new router/modem or combo so i can put openWRT/ddwrt on..whats everyone use?7
<SuperEngineer> mapps: I need to get a new boxing glove & smack the person who's using my "borrowed"!  Speed atm is atrocious - was brilliant earlier.
<directhex> mapps, civilzation is the most famous game in the "4x" genre - a turn based world exploration/conquering game
<SuperEngineer> [borrowing the secure broadband from people nearby - preesie for looking after it for them]
<mapps> heh
<mapps> anyone got any recommendations? dont really want a seperate router/modem but think i may have to?
<directhex> separates overheat & die less
<mapps> hm
<mapps> just feels like itd be hard work:)
<SuperEngineer> Q/ why does CCSM still call the Unity plugin "experimental"?
<mapps> ccsm?
<SuperEngineer> compiz config settings manager
<mapps> ah duh
<SuperEngineer> [& solved the problem with expo - it now *hates* top corner & *loves* the *bottom* left corner!... muscle retraining as we speak!]
<Myrtti> daftykins: success \o/ reinstalled \o/
<daftykins> yay \o/
<foobarry> there is a tv programme where a bunch of US girls think they are competing to date prince harry, but its a lookalike :-|
<foobarry> tv has reached new lows
 * SuperEngineer kisses the external drive & powers it off - job well done mate. ta
 * SuperEngineer worries about talking to hardware ;)
<SuperEngineer> hmmm -worried. Just went to install Wine and it insists that "nVidia opencl driver and icd loader driver" MUST be removed.  Worreeeeeed!  any clues?
<daftykins> why WINE ;_;
<ali1234> most likely a problem with 32 bit libraries
<SuperEngineer> daftykins: I hace a few [very old] win games * a couple of apps that I really would like to be available
<SuperEngineer> ali1234: so safe to allow?
<ali1234> no idea
<ali1234> show the full output
<SuperEngineer> ali1234: at least thayt's an honest answer ;)
<SuperEngineer> ali1234: I was about to show a full screenshot - but can't find where the heck it got saved to! [need top download Shutter to get the control I want - doing it now]... or was there some text file you thinking of?
<SuperEngineer> don't see why there would be any text - this is just on requesting Wine - nothing yet happened
<SuperEngineer> wth - installing it anyway ;)
<mapps> hm
<mapps> how do i root a sony xperia z2
<daftykins> for why?
<mapps> so can access a usb key
<daftykins> wat
<mapps> ?
<mapps> well
<mapps> u cant access a usb storage device else
<daftykins> bit of an odd use-case
<daftykins> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pTb7IhrGQw8
<mapps> well thats it ;p
<mapps> its my friend anyway not me
<mapps> it looks confusing
<mapps> http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2440597
<daftykins> video states that USB on-the-go support is there as stock
<mapps> hm
<mapps> it is
<daftykins> does he have that cable? :>
<daftykins> you really don't want to go modding someone elses phone
<mapps> yea
<mapps> agree
<mapps> whats the diff between these usb host OTG cables and a normal like mini usb -> regular cable?
<daftykins> standard charging cable is the wrong gender
<daftykins> charging = female, OTG = male
<daftykins> not sure if there's any electrical difference, i doubt it
<mapps> he said it came with a mini usb cable -> regula that can plug a usb key into it
<mapps> aint that the same as host otg?
<daftykins> dunno, depends what it's labelled as
<daftykins> that'd be a tad surprising, i'd expect them to be aftermarket only
<mapps> yea
<daftykins> but yeah i'd bet the storage settings have to be looked at, the format of the USB flash drive has to be good and so on
<mapps> can you recommend any decent sites for linux tutorials/videos like learning stuff or podcasts although i find podcasts hard to keep up with
<mapps> ah yea
<mapps> pah guess not ...;p
<mapps> off to work in a sec..but got nothig to do for hoursssssss..so can come on irc:D
<daftykins> dunno man, my recent assistance of a guy's little home web server involved 4hrs with me and a notepad writing up notes as to getting 14.04 going
<daftykins> a few differences to ye olde 10.04 that i wanted to document for future reference
<daftykins> at some point i need to carry on, with samba since it seems to have changed enough for me usual approach to not work
<mapps> ya i need to setup samba
<daftykins> hmm
<daftykins> oh dear midnight already
<daftykins> perhaps time for a Captain Scarlet and the Mysterons episode :D
<popey> O O
<popey>                       O O
<popey>                                                    O O
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> nicely done
<daftykins> Captain Black looks like he hasn't slept in a year
<popey> I used to work with someone who looked exactly like captain scarlet
<popey> he had a perma 5'o clock shadow and perfect plastic hair
<popey> also chiseled face
<daftykins> hahaha
<daftykins> was there a nickname?
<maps|wrl> hello
<diddledan> morning maps|wrk
<maps|wrk> :)
<maps|wrk> watching these tyger does docs on bbc iplayer
<maps|wrk> tyger does' the perfect body and lol theyre in newcastle talking about tanning injections and he says 'so are you Caucasian,' 'na im white british me'
<maps|wrk> lol
<daftykins> don't know who that is
<maps|wrk> its some guy that does documentaries for the BBC ..the funny thing was the fool that answered his question
<maps|wrk> he thought caucasian was 'some kind of asian' :)
<daftykins> firefox 30.0 O_O
#ubuntu-uk 2014-06-11
<MichaelOx> Hi guys.
<MichaelOx> I have just downloaded viber for linux
<MichaelOx> and installed it on my 14.04
<MichaelOx> However, I get a small viber icon at the top left of my screen
<MichaelOx> and it is very annoying as it overlaps the exit symbol "X"
<MichaelOx> Did someone experience something similar?
<MichaelOx> Can somebody help me?
<maps|wrk> i havent tried viber on there, sorry :<
<maps|wrk> could you not perhaps just move the icon
<daftykins> MichaelOx: yeah you're unlikely to get anything different here.
<diddledan> I don't even know what viber is
<maps|wrk> a message communication thing people use on phones
<maps|wrk> allows you to send messages over the net and also voice calls
<diddledan> aah. skype :-p
<maps|wrk> there's an app for pcs, guess there's a linux client
<MichaelOx> thanks a lot for your reply guys
<maps|wrk> ya kinda
<maps|wrk> basically
<MichaelOx> yes, I decided to switch to ubuntu
<diddledan> +1
<maps|wrk> but like..i guess he means the app icon? cant he just move the app like customize the system bar?
<diddledan> it might be a rootless window
<MichaelOx> yes, it is http://www.viber.com/products/linux/
<maps|wrk> will load it in asec
<maps|wrk> :)
<maps|wrk> viber works quite well, used it to call my friend in czech
<MichaelOx> thanks a lot man :)
<maps|wrk> but yea i guess it is just skype
<diddledan> thing is skype isn't "just skype" anymore since the borg took over
<daftykins> thing is, are you both on the same version?
<daftykins> (of ubuntu)
<maps|wrk> hm is it not possible to right click on the task bar and maybe customize it?
<daftykins> also, surely we don't support third party .deb's
<maps|wrk> yea im not im on xubuntu and like 12.10
<maps|wrk> i thought its simply a customization issue though daftykins  like moving the system tray icon or summit
<MichaelOx> I'm using 14.04 desktop edition...
<MichaelOx> I couldn't manage it...
<MichaelOx> I'm posting a screenshot in a minute..
<maps|wrk> ok:)
<daftykins> if it is user config based, test the same program in a guest session if possible
<daftykins> or a fresh user account
<MichaelOx> http://picpaste.com/Screenshot_from_2014-06-11_01__07__24-OxfQuO4J.png
<MichaelOx> here it is :)
<MichaelOx> I'm new at linux... So for you it might be something very easy...
<MichaelOx> You can see the icon at top left...
<MichaelOx> and it does not move...
<MichaelOx> at least by drag and drop...
<maps|wrk> ah yea i see it
<MichaelOx> Did you also download it maps|wrk ?
<maps|wrk> i could but wouldnt be able to see what happens now as at work
<maps|wrk> also using xubuntuy mate
<MichaelOx> ooo
<MichaelOx> anyway, thanks...
<MichaelOx> Do you know what might be a possible solution?
<maps|wrk> my suggestion would be to post on ubuntuforums - hopefullly someone there can help morethan me
<daftykins> don't you have to right click unlock the panel first? if it's one of those things
<daftykins> otherwise, you might want to change to individual window controls
<MichaelOx> @daftykins, unlock the panel? What is this?
<daftykins> not sure if it's appropriate to Unity
<daftykins> but before you could drag stuff about in the past, you had to right click on a panel and choose 'unlock'
<MichaelOx> ooo..
<MichaelOx> Yeah, I used centOS, I remember...
<MichaelOx> No, It's not like that...
<daftykins> ok, individual window controls might be the last option then
<daftykins> ultimately you've installed a program which is not supported under unity so it's making the theme go all funny
<daftykins> which is why i called it unsupported from the word 'go' in the other channel :>
<maps|wrk> ah
<maps|wrk> i didnt know
<maps|wrk> use lxde/kde and all will be fine
<maps|wrk> or xfce
<MichaelOx> hmm... the fact is that Viber had released the program a few months back
<MichaelOx> and they say they had test it on Ubuntu
<maps|wrk> hm
<daftykins> correct, and 14.04 has been out for... 1 and a bit
<ali1234> what's the problem? the icon in the top left?
<daftykins> apparently.
<maps|wrk> yea
<ali1234> is viber written in java by any chance?
<MichaelOx> Unity is the default after 10.4 I guess...so they might have test it on that and not on lxde/kde etc...
<daftykins> now that would explain something
<ali1234> i've seen this bug happen when java apps try to create a tray icon... instead of drawing in the tray, it draws in the top left of the screen instead
<MichaelOx> Hi Ali1234. I have no idea what language they used...
<daftykins> it's the wrong Java, gromit.
<MichaelOx> yes, the icon is the problem. It overlabs the exit "X" and I cannot close the other windows if they are maximised
<MichaelOx> ... It's there all time while Viber runs...
<daftykins> alt+space -> x :D
<MichaelOx> Very useful :) yeah, this is what I am doing :)
<MichaelOx> But it shouldn't be like that...
<daftykins> nope, complain to Viber
<daftykins> ali1234: do you recall whether the runtime influenced anything?
<ali1234> it's not java... it's Qt... and ships with a static Qt
<MichaelOx> I should, but I do not think they will pay any attention...
<ali1234> but i bet it's some kind of similar problem
<ali1234> see if there is an option to disable system tray?
<ali1234> that's the only workaround iknow
<daftykins> MichaelOx: imagine if the Allies decided it best not to bother telling Hitler they disagreed.
<ali1234> "i hold in my hand a piece of paper"
<daftykins> that's wasted on me if it means something
<ali1234> google it
<ali1234> basically we don't need to imagine it
<ali1234> because it happened
<MichaelOx> No, it doesn't have any option to disable system tray
<MichaelOx> the fact is that my easiest solution now...
<MichaelOx> Is to go back to windows... :p
<ali1234> i can't really give you as easy solution for this
<ali1234> i could probably fix it by hacking dlls
<ali1234> but that's pretty hard
<daftykins> ali1234: was the declaration of war not an admission of disagreement ;)
<ali1234> maybe you could blacklist the tray icon in unity
<ali1234> daftykins: yes, *eventually*
<daftykins> so you're splitting hairs
<ali1234> it's what i do
<daftykins> MichaelOx: tbh if you give up on Linux 'cause of one little icon in the wrong place... bye :) don't let the door hit you on the way out!
<maps|wrk> whys everyone so hostile!
<ali1234> it does make it impossible to close windows...
<maps|wrk> ;[
<ali1234> http://askubuntu.com/questions/30742/how-do-i-access-and-enable-more-icons-to-be-in-the-system-tray <- there is a system for blacklisting tray icons in unity
<ali1234> the icon might be doing that because it is blacklisted and so cannot show in the tray
<MichaelOx> no
<ali1234> or alternatvely, if it isn't blacklisted already, then blacklisting it might make it go away
<MichaelOx> I have sound problems also
<daftykins> maps|wrk: hang out in #ubuntu more, you'll see :)
<MichaelOx> and I also had graphics problem and spend out 3 days to solve it..
<ali1234> however, i do not use unity, so i can't really help you with finding the settings, which have probably changed since that answer was written. you'll need a unity user to guide you
<MichaelOx> Actually, everything works flawlesly in windows..
<MichaelOx> However, this is not the case for linux..
<MichaelOx> Thanks a lot @ali1234 :)
<MichaelOx> I will try that now :)
<daftykins> oh Captain Magenta.
<MichaelOx> Didn't get that
<maps|wrk> nor me
<maps|wrk> :(
<daftykins> i'm watching Captain Scarlet
<daftykins> such a classic
<maps|wrk> ahhh
<daftykins> it's quite amusing how bad the bad guys are in this
<ali1234> is captain scarlet the one where they have cars that drive backwards?
<daftykins> the drivers that sit backwards :D
<ali1234> same thing
<daftykins> nah
<ali1234> now who is splitting hairs?
<daftykins> quite a good idea that, for crashes
<daftykins> well i thought i'd show you what a timewaste it is :)
<ali1234> yes but when you accelerate you hit your head on the monitor
<ali1234> and you'd get really seasick due to the monitor showing the opposite movement to what you feel
<daftykins> if only they were some kind of... trained personnel
<ali1234> according to wikipedia the monitor image is flipped (and presumably also the controls) which would counteract this
<ali1234> if that is true then kudos to the andersons for actually thinking about it
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> in one of the earlier episodes, Big Ben featured
<daftykins> there was a situation where Big Ben struck midnight and chimed 13 times, it was quite entertainingly explained :)
<maps|wrk> what are ye all upto :D only 1 tv series for me today
<maps|wrk> :((
<daftykins> one more ep then bed
<maps|wrk> :D captain scarlet? never seen
<daftykins> :O
<daftykins> totally a kids show really, but amusing
<daftykins> same guys as Thunderbirds
<maps|wrk> ah
<daftykins> bit o' harmless sci-fi :>
<maps|wrk> wahh
<maps|wrk> my neck hurts when i move
<maps|wrk> ;[
<Myrtti> huomenta
<Myrtti> mmm cake
<Myrtti> generic rant and whine about oem disabling LTS upgrade to 14.04
<Myrtti> hm.
<Myrtti> meh
<Myrtti> I must've slipped through a temporal crack
<Myrtti> moin TheOpenSourcerer
<TheOpenSourcerer> yo Myrtti
<Myrtti> TheOpenSourcerer: since you guys would probably know this instead of me going looking for it, what are Odoo's plans for Python3?
<Myrtti> I tried to look in the most obvious reliable sources but couldn't find anything
<awilkins> security.ubuntu.com seems to have misplaced it's file system
<nigelb> Hello Myrtti, TheOpenSourcerer
<awilkins> This is annoying, since I'm trying to install a package from there
<awilkins> Oh, maybe I need to update
<awilkins> Fair enough
<awilkins> Previous version was apparently replaced quickly
<TheOpenSourcerer> Myrtti: Not sure right now. I Don't think Odoo has been ported.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Morning nigelb
<Myrtti> TheOpenSourcerer: I don't think so either, but has there been any plans that you've heard of?
<TheOpenSourcerer> I've seen some discussions but no commitment.
<Myrtti> right.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Check the community mailing list (was/is still on launchpad I think for now. But they are moving to Github).
<Myrtti> http://www.theonion.com/video/more-office-workers-switching-to-fetal-position-de,36240/
<Myrtti> Spot the Dog creator Eric Hill dies http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-27778846
 * TheOpenSourcerer read that as "Spit the Dog" to start with :-D (i.e. Bob Carolgees)
<popey> \o/ 30 mins conversation with Mother in Law about what computer she should buy.
<foobarry> chrome pc?
<foobarry> alienware big green alien?
<popey> chrombooks didnt even enter into the conversation
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<popey> desktops, pc laptops and osx laptops did
<foobarry> chromebooks have small scren size , an oversight for the older generation especially those who seem to only use a browser
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Ferris Bueller Day! :-D
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<bigcalm> Bueller...
<bigcalm> Bueller...
<bigcalm> Bueller...
<foobarry> if i write something on an open group, does it appear in my friends main feed? or in their toielt roll feed on the side? or nowhere if they are not in the group
<foobarry> (facebook)
<popey> i didnt think anything in groups appeared in your friends feeds unless they're also in the group
<foobarry> wasn't sure if that also applied for open groups
<foobarry> sure i've seen people do things on pages i'm not part of but maybe they are pages they have "liked" not joined
<davmor2> JamesTait: fantastic we should all scive off work for the day then right?
<JamesTait> davmor2, I couldn't possibly comment on such a suggestion.
<bigcalm> davmor2: sure, nobody would notice ;)
<davmor2> bigcalm: you can replace yourself with a script you know you can :P
<foobarry> i thought JamesTait was a bot for about a year
<foobarry> he only said the welcome announcement and never spoke for reset of day
<bigcalm> davmor2: On occasion, I have. Still charge the client for my time though
<davmor2> foobarry: you think he isn't now?
<foobarry> he may have added new features
<JamesTait> I am completely operational and all my circuits are functioning perfectly.
<davmor2> foobarry: he was the first to pass the turing test
<foobarry> i noticed the turing test was passed by people who thought the bot was a 13yr old boy
<foobarry> thats hardly a test of humanity
<foobarry> grunt urrr meh minecraft shut up yeahh
<davmor2> foobarry: you were fooled JamesTait the greeter anniversary bot :D
<bigcalm> http://hijinksensue.com/comic/more-human-than-human/
<Myrtti> foobarry: there's been some discussion that criteria used during the test wasn't quite en par what it should've been
<NET||abuse> I may have said this in the past, but i'll say it again, unity's "ownership" of the alt key, is driving me mad
<TheOpenSourcerer> http://www.cnet.com/uk/news/wildling-wannabes-make-a-crossbow-from-office-supplies/ :-D
<foobarry> found a way to download a pdf from scribd without a paid account if you just want 1 file
<bashrc> NET||abuse: I find it annoying when using Emacs in full screen.  I don't know if there's a way to turn off the dash on an application specific basis
<davmor2> foobarry_: you mean you don't just print the page as a pdf?
<foobarry_> does that work davmor2
<davmor2> foobarry_: I don't know it's just what I do if there is page I want and I know there is not going to be internet connection where I'm going
<foobarry_> sure.but scribd is different
<popey> no
<popey> its a flash based thing
<popey> scribd is a terrible service
<foobarry_> they are protecting their (usually coprighted) content
<foobarry_> not sure how they are legal
<foobarry_> youtube is similar i guess
<popey> foobarry: is almost always isn't their content
<popey> e.g. a letter netflix sent to verizon was on scribd yesterday
<awilkins> scribd were supposed to be re-doing everything as HTML 5 no?
<awilkins> Looking at scribd : appears to be an HTML5 page that queries their asset servers for pages as JSON
<popey> doesn't make any difference what technology they use
<popey> they still hold PDFs you can easily get elesewhere to random for download
<popey> and some you cant
<ali1234> alright popey keep your fedora on
<awilkins> Well, yes, they do seem a bit shonky
<popey> hah
<bigcalm> directhex: you're not wrong about Wii U updates being painfully slow
<directhex> it's nintendo's servers. i checked my router traffic, it never passed 1mbit
<davmor2> ali1234: is it a red fedora
<foobarry> scribd do a give one, get one policy for free users
<foobarry> so if you want a particalar pdf to download, you have to upload a unqie pdf
<mapps> hello all
 * bigcalm tickles popey and then freakyclown
<popey> â»
<bigcalm> Really want steak at tonight's LUG
<bigcalm> Will enjoy a nice salad instead
<bigcalm> But can I stop myself from having cheesy garlic bread?
<popey> wuuuuut
<popey> why not have steak?
<bigcalm> Trying to lose some weight. The steak comes with too much that is yummy
<bigcalm> Also, I'm having a dry month
<bigcalm> So on the diet pepsi tonight
<bigcalm> Will be odd
<davmor2> haha
<bigcalm> Can't have a dry July, that's when I'm on a boat
<bigcalm> And it will be tricky having a dry August with the RAT
<bigcalm> Though generally cutting back will be a good thing
<awilkins> Have steak with no yummy bits
<awilkins> The meat is protein rich which satiates the appetite and helps you resist cramming your face with carbs later
<awilkins> Salad is mostly water and does not
<awilkins> Order it -sans- fries / potato
<bigcalm> Heh
<Seeker> I see tweetdeck has an XSS bug
<bigcalm> Hehe
<Seeker> 10.5k retweets in 10 mins apparently
<mapps> :D
<ali1234> the huge recompressing finished and i managed to increase the compression ratio by a factor of 5... and it only took like 5 days
<Saur0> hi can anyone help me get my head around a postfix problem?
<daftykins> Saur0: #ubuntu-server or #networking might be better
<gebbione> any serious pdf editor in ubuntu
<gebbione> pdf mod and editor really look lame
<diddledan> wow - I really should sleep
<diddledan> I've been messing with ipsec for nearly 48 hours straight
<diddledan> blurryvision ftw
#ubuntu-uk 2014-06-12
<mapps> YES
<mapps> i can get 80mbit FTC
<mapps> :d
<MooDoo> morning all
<diplo> Morning all
<dwatkins> hiya
<MooDoo> morning diplo dwatkins :)
<SuperMat1> morning all
<MooDoo> good moaning SuperMat1
<SuperMatt> I'm sorry, I don't know who you're talking about
<MooDoo> :p
<MooDoo> !- SuperMat1 is now known as SuperMatt - aha don't deny it
<SuperMatt> DANG!
<MooDoo> SuperMatt: you win I just got an edit request sent to ubuntu-irc, #faile
<SuperMatt> huh?
<MooDoo> lol I think ! - is some sort of freenode thing
<SuperMatt> ah, I see
<mapps> hm
<mapps> have to have my landline with sky too
<mapps> 30 quid for 80mbit fibre 15 line rental seems ok
<dwatkins> I just switched to PlusNet, and am finally without a cap.
<mapps> im just super excited to get off 6mbit adsl
<mapps> but will take a few weeks
<mapps> 1-2 for my line to go from bt 1-2 for fibre
<dwatkins> supposedly I get up to 70 MBit, but in practical terms it's generally 20 MBit - still pretty good for FTTC, I imagine.
<mapps> if i just buy a second line is it quicker?
<mapps> then cancel old line later
<mapps> yessssssss
<mapps> order placed
<awilkins> Yeah, I get about 25MBit/s but I'm supposed to get 60 (Virgin fibre + cable)
<awilkins> But in general I'm happy with it
<awilkins> SO I can't be bothered to moan
<awilkins> It's fast enough to stream HD and downloads a 10GB game in less than 2 hours
<mapps> ;]
<mapps> before on my 6mbit adsl i couldnt downoad and watch on demand as its so crap
<mapps> ive been waiting 15 days for my money back from betfair
<mapps> what an absolute joke
<mapps> and everytime i phone them..told to phone my bank..then shock..the bank say phone them
<bigcalm> Good sunny morning peeps :)
<mapps> morning bigcalm
<Myrtti> we're getting Zen FTTC installed today
<mapps> :D
<Myrtti> MooDoo: !commands are bot things, nothing to do with freenode
<mapps> what speed you getting Myrtti
<Myrtti> mapps: "sufficient" - the person who ordered it and knows the details came back home from a night shift at work and is snoring already so I can't ask for details atm
<Myrtti> I'm inclined to say that anything is better than what we're getting now
<mapps> ah
<mapps> yea
<mapps> what is it atm?
<Myrtti> the speed isn't bad, but we're paying for something what we're not getting - if TalkTalk Business tries to deliver us the speed we are paying for, the connection quality falls and the speed drops to modem speed or worse
<mapps> ah
<mapps> yea i had that with o2..had to increase m y noise profile
<mapps> thus decreasing speed
<Myrtti> so they've dropped us to the slower speed level, and when we asked then if the ticket for trying to find out why we can't get the speed we're paying for, is solved, they said the ticket's been closed because the line doesn't have any problems anymore
<Myrtti> of course it doesn't have the problems you numpties coz you dropped the speed
<dwatkins> I was reading about someone who recorded a conversation with Virgin Media recently, as their letter stated the fibre would be to the premesis, but it wasn't.
<dwatkins> I can't find the link right now, but he wasn't letting go of this piece of information.
<Myrtti> RevK from AA wasn't it
<foobarry> had a pic of some copper
<Myrtti> we considered AA too
<foobarry> too much wine?
<Myrtti> just for the xkcd shibboleet compliance
<Myrtti> http://www.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/1f154z/til_theres_a_uk_internet_service_provider_that_is/
<bigcalm> Myrtti: is there the possibility that your phone line is aluminium instead of copper?
<Myrtti> "anything is possible at zombo.com"
<bigcalm> Heh
<bigcalm> Wow, turn back time eh?
<Myrtti> http://html5zombo.com/
<Myrtti> FUTURE IS HERE
<Myrtti> you can do ANYTHING at zombo.com
<bigcalm> Bwuhahaha
<bigcalm> Poorer quality audio :(
<bigcalm> But it's nice to see it brought into the here and now
<TwistedLucidity> Wait, there was audio?
 * TwistedLucidity turns on speakers
<Myrtti> of course there's audio
<TwistedLucidity> I had my speakers off. Thought the coloured spinny thing was the zombo "loading" animation.
 * TwistedLucidity has not had enough coffee
<bigcalm> Aww
<Myrtti> it is the loading animation.
<Myrtti> zombo.com is a magnificent website.
<Myrtti> I spend hours there every day
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Loving Day! :-D
 * TwistedLucidity thinks Myrtti is fibbing
<Myrtti> eewwwwwww Postie just delivered The Sun special thingie
<Myrtti> I feel polluted
<Myrtti> tainted
<TwistedLucidity> Whut? Hope we get one. I need some newspaper for mopping up messes.....
<Myrtti> you should
<Myrtti> IIRC everyone in England apart from an area in Merseyside gets it
<MooDoo> Myrtti: what's a thungie?
<MooDoo> thingie even
<Myrtti> MooDoo: http://www.theguardian.com/media/greenslade/2014/jun/10/sun-hillsborough-disaster
<Myrtti> http://www.theguardian.com/media/greenslade/2014/jun/11/sun-world-cup-2014
<TwistedLucidity> Myrtti: Is the free issue "complete"? i.e. page 3 'n all?
<bigcalm> One was just pushed through our letterbox as well
<bigcalm> I feel ill :(
<Myrtti> you mean I should actually go dig it from the recycling bin?
<Myrtti> all I saw was the queen on page 2 I think
<diplo> Someone actually buys it in the office I work in!
<Myrtti> ew
<TwistedLucidity> LOL. I was actually thinking; if it's complete, there's boobs on page 3. How does that square with the various restrictions on inappropriate material for minors? I mean, I have to put in a PIN code to watch programmes I've recorded and I don't even ahve kids!
<diplo> For the sport I think, seems more of a sport paper than anything  else ?
<Myrtti> AFAIK there wasn't bewbs on it
<Myrtti> well, bare ones at least
<bigcalm> I didn't open it. Put it straight in the recycling
<bigcalm> Not even free bewbs will make me open it
<TwistedLucidity> bigcalm: Super useful though (wet boots etc)
<bigcalm> I'd rather not have it in the house
<foobarry> +1
<foobarry> although i feel like that about most papers.
<foobarry> thinly disguised politicising
<foobarry> not even disguised
<Myrtti> I ordered Guardian vouchers for a weekend subscription just few days back
<Myrtti> confusing experience over all but *shrug*
<knightwise> hmmm. juicessh is a very goos ssh client on android
<foobarry> my wife wouldn't let me go for a job at the guardian
<foobarry> they wrote some very spiteful and false stories about a family friend
<foobarry> amongst other things
<TwistedLucidity> If they are false, did the friend manage to sue for libel? (Not a cheap course of action, I know)
<foobarry> they attempted to discuss with them
<foobarry> but the claims were made by a 3rd party
<foobarry> so they just said they were reporting what the other person said
<foobarry> although they were not a reputable source
<foobarry> papers have cheeky ways to promote their agenda
<TwistedLucidity> Not sure how that protects the paper. If I say "foobarry is a big, stinky, poo-bum" and a paper reports it; are they not also liable for not checking to see if foobarry is *actually* a big, stinky poo-bum?
<foobarry> not without good lawyers
<TwistedLucidity> For the avoidance of any doubt, I don't think that at all. I hope most folks would get that from the example (but you never know...)
<foobarry> metro reported "couple having sex on balcony fell off and died" as the headline
<Myrtti> if the paper says that TwistedLucidity thinks foobarry is a big stinky poo-bum, then they've reported that opinion right if they quote it verbatum
<foobarry> the witness said they were kissing and getting intimate, one person said it looked like they were having sex, but not provable
<foobarry> so is probably libellous, but they are dead, so cannot complain
<TwistedLucidity> Myrtti: That's probably true, but I still think there could be a case against the paper depending on the seriousness of the allegations. If they wanted to protected themselves maybe they should insert "...without any justification that..."
<TwistedLucidity> But IANAL, so what do I know?
<Myrtti> yeah, likewise
<Myrtti> come on mr. BT engineer dude guy
<TwistedLucidity> Although IIRC Scots law is different.
<TwistedLucidity> Don't you just hate it when you know you've read about a behaviour, you know you'd emailed people about it; but now when you come to do something about it you simply cannot find yer notes? GAH!
<popey> of all the mainstream newspapers, the Guardian is probably the only one I'd consider working at
<dwatkins> I know people who work for a paper I would never buy, they're not bad people but I don't understand how they reconcile doing their job with the content this particular paper creates.
<bigcalm> Breaking news: popey announces departure from Canonical to work at local rag
<foobarry> ^rag^website
<foobarry> ^website^blog
<foobarry> would non-smokers in here work at a tobacco company?
<bigcalm> Not by choice
<bigcalm> But then I'm en ex-smoker
<dwatkins> likewise
<dwatkins> I'd have difficulty working for a company which relates to gambling
<foobarry> gambling
<foobarry> thats my other one
<foobarry> smoking and gambling co's
<dwatkins> then again, I've dealt with a company like this, they were very pushy
<Myrtti> depends on the country
<dwatkins> "We've been around for hundreds of years" etc.etc.
<Myrtti> I wouldn't work for a gambling company in UK. In Finland they're all nonprofits
<Myrtti> apart from the foreign ones
<TwistedLucidity> popey: I wouldn't. They appear to operate certain...umm...financial efficience that I am uncomfortably in supporting. I used to like the Indy, but no more.
<Myrtti> BT engineer! whoop
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<dwatkins> I wish I could find this blog post about fibre to the premesis
<TwistedLucidity> dwatkins: I like my job and the company is great, but some of the uses our products get put to make me feel uneasy. Although any other company I went to would probably have the same issue.
<dwatkins> TwistedLucidity: agreed, although we have a clause about not using our products for making stuff like nooclear weaponry, I'm sure some of our customers aren't angels.
<TwistedLucidity> dwatkins: This? http://revk.www.me.uk/2014/05/virgin-lies.html
<dwatkins> TwistedLucidity: gosh darn it, you're awesome
<dwatkins> I was searching high and low on Reddit for that.
<TwistedLucidity> DuckDuckGo is your friend. "virgin media fibre premises" and just started scrolling. About 10th in the list.
<dwatkins> nice
<foobarry> i wonder who decides the magazines that you can read digitally from local libraries
<dwatkins> the librarian?
<foobarry> pretty sure its not the librarian
<foobarry> in london anyway
<foobarry> they seem to sign up to a zinio system where you get a subset of magazines
<foobarry> mainly populist content free stuff
<dwatkins> ah yes, I've seen it advertised as a way to download loads of digital editions with a single app
<foobarry> i'd like to at least to to request some decent magz
<foobarry> rather than apple mag and gay times
<dwatkins> something like this https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/next-issue-unlimited-access/id533561885?mt=8
<foobarry> there's 4 knitting magazines
<foobarry> they have 2 mountain biking mags, so they do some niche stuff
<foobarry> there's not even an email address to contact the provider of the service
<davmor2> foobarry: I'm sorry you think knitting is niche hahahahahahahahahaha
<foobarry> 4 knit magz is excessive
<popey> foobarry: no, i wouldn't work for a tabacco company
<popey> just had to spend ~500 quid getting car through MoT
<funkyHat> Dâ¢
<popey> Need to consider whether to keep it much longer.
<popey> Also needs brakes doing, which will be a bit spendy too.
<popey> Have had this car for ~13 years now.
<popey> Has lasted well, but less need for a big car now kids have grown up (no buggies / high chairs etc)
<popey> and it costs a lot for duty
<bigcalm> Get a 107
<funkyHat> Your car is old enough to have its own facebook account!
<popey> hah
<popey> It's nice though, comfy, leather, good for long journeys
<popey> automatic
<TwistedLucidity> popey: MPG?
<bigcalm> Leather is not good for hot weather
<popey> TwistedLucidity: dunno
<popey> bigcalm: air con is
<bigcalm> popey: <3 air con
<TwistedLucidity> popey: Spoken like a man who make too much money! :-)
<popey> spoken like a man who rarely drives
<popey> work from home remember
<TwistedLucidity> As do I.
<bigcalm> Despite working from home, I appear to do about 15K+ per year
<bigcalm> I think it might be because we always take my car to visit my parents or go on holiday
 * funkyHat has had his license for just over 6 years, probably barely driven 1500 miles.
<funkyHat> (It helps that I've not owned a car, of course)
<popey> 1 year tax is Â£225
<foobarry> on petrol motor
<foobarry> my diesel is cheap
<foobarry> seat ecomotive may even be free tax
<dwatkins> I cycle to work when I can.
<popey> thats my diesel
 * Laney is car free
<dwatkins> Unfortunately, I also do a lot of mileage because my relatives live 450 miles from me.
<popey> wifey also has a car, but hers is small, not ideal for family holidays
<TwistedLucidity> foobarry: Need to do miles in a diesel, no? To keep the filters etec clear?
<dwatkins> I have fond memories of all five of us fitting into a Volvo 240 when I was little and camping around Europe
<Laney> I like a future where people don't own cars but hire them from those pay as you go car clubs or whatever if they need them
<dwatkins> Edinburgh has a City Car Club which seems like a good idea.
<popey> meanwhile back on earth
<dwatkins> You can hire a car for an hour or so, if you want.
<popey> there are numerous hire companies like zipcar
<popey> we used one at UDS once to trip around San Francisco
<dwatkins> Reading (Berkshire) now has Boris bikes, too.
<popey> but they don't help the usual family use cases.
<Laney> back on earth we continue to fill our towns and cities with people sitting in small metal cages alone polluting the planet and destroying the locality
<dwatkins> It's better than it was in many places, compared to during the industrial revolution.
<funkyHat> Laney: I am the future!
<foobarry> my neighbours nip out in the car and arrive 3 mins later
<foobarry> i wonder where they are driving to
<foobarry> the chippy maybe
<dwatkins> Tesco Express
<dwatkins> Tesco is a plague infesting the villages of this nation. There was a march in the village I grew up in to try and stop Tesco from building there.
<foobarry> are spar/coop ok?
<foobarry> i have seen village high st decimated by an out of town tesco/sainsbury/big other
<popey> I do like Co-Op
<dwatkins> exactly, foobarry - this Tesco will most likely kill the village centre
<dwatkins> http://www.stoptescoingoring.org/
<popey> hmm, needs another 432.45 on brakes.
<bashrc> that sounds like a familiar story
<foobarry> i have a problem in that i enjoy making models but shop rents have made real world shops scarce. now postage charges are getting ridiculous it is very hard to buy stuff anymore for the hobby
<dwatkins> the pavements near the site they want are relaly narrow, and delivery trucks will make it even more dangerous etc.
<foobarry> popey: are the brakes dead, or just pitted?
<bashrc> also supermarkets tend to exfiltrate money from the local economy and move it elsewhere
<dwatkins> foobarry: I gather a lot of shops now just mostly sell on ebay in those kinds of markets
<foobarry> dwatkins: yes but the postage sucks
<dwatkins> foobarry: true
<foobarry> and sometimes i only want a 15ml bottle of paint
<foobarry> the old shop model used to mean i popped down to the shop for the paint and came home with a model :D
<foobarry> and the paint
<foobarry> same day and all that.
<popey> foobarry: they're pretty worn
<foobarry> life is expensive :(
<dwatkins> Life is like a box of chocolates.
<foobarry> needs more bacon?
<Myrtti> whee new tinternet
<davmor2> Myrtti: well don't whee on it or you'll need another new internet
 * dwatkins sends a fathers' day card
 * davmor2 awaits the compulsory speednet results from Myrtti 's new internet
<Myrtti> https://plus.google.com/u/0/+DuncanSample/posts/C6GZE1YT3Z6
<davmor2> Myrtti: not bad
<TwistedLucidity> Myrtti: 14 *up*? Yowzah!
<TwistedLucidity> That's 5 times what VM gives me.
<directhex> i get 16 up
 * TwistedLucidity starts sobbing
<TwistedLucidity> directhex: You also with BT?
<directhex> yes
<dwatkins> I can remotely open a browser and use speedtest.net, so I must have a fair amount of bandwidth
<directhex> speedtest-cli from github
<dwatkins> ooh, thanks directhex :D
<dwatkins> strange, my upload is much lower than it was last time I tested (which was in the evening)
<dwatkins> I get: Ping 88.93 ms | Download: 45.39 Mbits/s | Upload: 2.51 Mbits/s
<foobarry> wife says she had someone knock on the door saying she was reading meters on behalf on EDF
<foobarry> but not from EDF, and the ID was like a home prinout
<foobarry> i don't think they will get very far
<popey> Ooh! http://store.steampowered.com/app/271590
 * popey adds to wishlist
 * bigcalm bounces
<bigcalm> Why can't I find the option to add to wishlist?
<bigcalm> Because I'm not logged in :)
<popey> Sun arrived, in bin (no boobs)
<bigcalm> Heh
<bigcalm> You had to check though
<popey> i did
<Laney> 55378008?
<bigcalm> 0.7734
<popey> Indeed!
<MartijnVdS> popey: will there be a Linux version?
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: are there linux versions for any of the other GTA games?
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: no, but that doesn't mean that a new game can't be ported ?: 0
<MartijnVdS> :)
<popey> MartijnVdS: no idea.
<bigcalm> I should play some more of the missions in GTA IV
<mapps> Matched: GBP 805,544
<mapps> thats ridiculous
<mapps> ;]
<bigcalm> ?
<mapps> the amount of money on one crappy horse race
<mapps> just dont see where it all comes from
<bigcalm> You just won Â£805,544?
<mapps> no lol
<mapps> i wish
<mapps> the amount of money bet
<bigcalm> Wow
<bigcalm> I don't bet so have no idea if that's high or low for a race. I guess it would depend upon how many people are betting
<mapps> well its huge..and for tonights soccer id imagine the winner will have like 20million+
<awilkins> THe only day I ever bet on the horses
<awilkins> Backed 5 winners in a row. Would have backed 6, but left races early to beat rush for car park.
<awilkins> So wish I'd put an accumulator on.
<mapps> woah
<mapps> thats pretty decent
<foobarry> thats how it all starts
<foobarry> next you are in the gutter and house remortgaged...but i won my first five races!
<foobarry> :P
<awilkins> Yeah, hence I don't actually gamble
<foobarry> reply from library "The magazine content is managed by the supplier on our behalf and the subscription is for the 100 most popular titles currently on Zinio, so it is the supplier that chooses the titles for us. "
<foobarry> populist but not really doing a library's job of weighted approach
<foobarry> there are 4 knitting mags, 2 sewings, quilting and papercraft
 * Myrtti waits for the punchline
<foobarry> just not a very balanced offering.
<Myrtti> in balance to what?
<foobarry> heavily weighted towards women's crafts and exercise mags
<foobarry> and hello magazine etc
<foobarry> no men's crafts
<foobarry> beaver-skinning, hunting squirrels etc
<awilkins> Women love their crafts
<foobarry> men do too
<awilkins> Fewer of them love crafts, I'd reckon
<foobarry> military model making and dioramas are huelgy popular
<foobarry> obv still niche but hey
 * Myrtti leans her arms on her spinning wheel and looks at foobarry 
<Myrtti> do go on
<Myrtti> :-P
<foobarry> my wife wants a spinning wheel
<foobarry> she bought a litle hand spinner instead because she can't afford >200Â£
<Myrtti> http://www.winghamwoolwork.co.uk/ashford-wheels/30-ashford-kiwi.html
<foobarry> thats the one you have?
<Myrtti> nah, I've got Joy 2
<foobarry> if i get a pay rise i will buy her one
<foobarry> and buy myself a synology
<Myrtti> http://www.winghamwoolwork.co.uk/ashford-wheels/707-joy-2.html <-- double treadle with bag
<Myrtti> I wanted something transportable and easily stowed away
<foobarry> is this for spinnign your own yarn?
<foobarry> looks like thin cotton
<Myrtti> yeah
<Myrtti> well, thinness is an ackquired skill
<foobarry> her friend is buying alpaca fleeces for her spinner
<foobarry> not sure if this is all a fad
<dwatkins> like thatching?
<awilkins> Girlfriend does bead jewellery tutorials
<dwatkins> I have a friend who crochets things on Etsy such as phone socks
<dwatkins> dice bags etc.
<davmor2> foobarry: I am sat in my office it is 50% computers 50% wool and patterns just me Knitting is no fad, nearly every town has one, and the ORG site was only taken down twice in it's life first was it's first ever /. second was when it was representing the rights of a woman who published her dr who knitting patterns online
<davmor2> foobarry: note the geeks haven't taken it down since only knitters
<awilkins> Were they the knitted Ood patterns?
<mapps> hm
<mapps> whos watching the game?
<mapps> going casino at the empire or whatever it is next to hippodrome :D
<diddledan> there's a game?
<mapps> yes;p
<mapps> 4 buds for 15 quid
<mapps> isnt too bad
<diddledan> tesco are doing cheap boxes
<diddledan> I think they worked out 56p per can
<mapps> but i cant drink that in the casino;p
<mapps> its free entry if anyones around like a 100" screen
<daftykins> tum te tum
<daftykins> just been at my parents setting up their new li'l' desktop PC
<daftykins> popped in a TP-Link wireless PCI-E 1x card to get it online, due to their setup being dire since i left :P
<daftykins> worked nicely out of the box in an ubuntu 14.04 64-bit liveUSB \o/
<mapps> hey daftykins
<mapps> im getting fibre
<mapps> :DDD
<mapps> at last
<diddledan> weetabix FTW!
<daftykins> mapps: \o/ better pooping for all
<daftykins> what specs?
<diddledan> http://www.ebuyer.com/581256-ssdnow-v300-480gb-sata-3-2-5-drive-only-sv300s37a-480g
<mapps> 80/19
<mapps> :DDDDD7
<mapps> 30 quid for the fibre..20.40 for line rental had to switch to sky was with bt
<mapps> but i dont care
<mapps> i just wanted FASTER
<mapps> said itll be done in 1-2 weeks
<diddledan> mapps: that's what I got, speedwise - I'm with sky
<mapps> ya
<mapps> i paid 50 for installation..not gonna quibble..pointless
<mapps> and i want it ..so why waste my time moaning about 50 quid fee
<diddledan> sky let you have a static IP now too
<mapps> nice
<mapps> and in 1-2 weeks my fibre will be on
<mapps> they send me the router 5 days before fibre gets activated
<diddledan> you have to pay more I think tho to get onto their special plan for it
<mapps> and its good..they dont need to come in my house!!
<daftykins> got my new tube of arctic silver 5 today \o/ with free haribo 8D <3 overclockers.co.uk
<mapps> with my dad..he has fibre from bt infinity theyhad to come in to change his telephone socket
<diddledan> yeah I got the new socket, too
<Armag3dd0n24> england are going to win the world cup :) you heard it from me first. ;)
<diddledan> I'm not sure whether there's any difference with self-installed no-socket-change
<daftykins> ugh football
<diddledan> Armag3dd0n24: you're in parallelaland?
<mapps> no chance Armag3dd0n24
<daftykins> the socket changes tend to just be VDSL2+ setups with built-in filters
<daftykins> so no biggy really
<mapps> id give you 1000/1
<mapps> yes daftykins but requires you being in
<Armag3dd0n24> lol trollinnnnnnnnnnnn
<Armag3dd0n24> :p
<daftykins> they just insist on putting it at the strongest part of the phone line, which is how all broadband should've been forever :/
<ali1234> fun fact: the filters don't do anything for the data channel. they just filter it out of the audio loop so you don't hear weird noises when you make a phone call
<daftykins> yeah, not telling me anything new there
<daftykins> but of course taking it at the demarc. point is how it should be \o/
<daftykins> ah, a nice perfectly de-gunked intel i5
<diddledan> \o/ for de-gunking myths
<diddledan> aka i5
<daftykins> wat
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/z8ywviba5td7uwc/IMG_20140612_195456.jpg
<diddledan> nicely laid out lappy
<daftykins> ;]
<diddledan> some lappies internals are evil
<diddledan> I expect apples to be of that ilk
<diddledan> the evil kind
<daftykins> this one is easy to open, Toshiba Satellite C855, but it's got so much flex you have to open the screen and slide just the keyboard and touchpad surface onto your desk to get any proper screwdriver use
<diddledan> eek
<daftykins> ok cutlery out to spread the arctic silver O_.
<daftykins> mmm spreading that brand new stuff is so easy
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/dpxcp7f94ak99rj/IMG_20140612_151406.jpg
<daftykins> teensy low profile card :D
<diddledan> yummy!
<daftykins> would rather not be wireless for a desktop, but things are a bit sketchy at my parents place these days
<foobarry> how can i ask irssi to show me my highlights? my name is highlighted but scroll up key is broken
<daftykins> do you use the away system?
<foobarry> tis ok, i checked the logs intead
<foobarry> i should use the script to pump highlights to another chan/window
<foobarry> yay footy
<daftykins> i just set away, move to the status window... then when i un-away they all come up
<daftykins> \o/
<foobarry> how do i set status away pls?
<Myrtti> foobarry: /last foobarry
<Myrtti> that tells the times foobarry has been mentioned in lastlog
<Myrtti> to get the output dismissed, use /last -clear
<foobarry> thats the one Myrtti , ta
<Myrtti> to go to away do /away gone - you can replace 'gone' with whatever you want within reasonable length
<Myrtti> and to return from away, do away without parameters
<Myrtti> you can also use autoaway scripts - either one that sets you away when the idle time is high enough - or if you use tmux/screen, when you're detached
<Myrtti> both toggle the away off automatically
<foobarry> clever stuff :)
<diddledan> http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2014/06/11/this-is-the-amazing-design-for-nasas-star-trek-style-space-ship-the-ixs-enterprise/
<dwatkins> Someone has already built it in KSP.
<diddledan> does it work?
<diddledan> if so then surely that's evidence enough to go into production?
<dwatkins> absolutely, no further testing required
<dwatkins> diddledan: http://imgur.com/a/GyiBt
<daftykins> http://www.htcdev.com/bootloader/
<daftykins> nice one HTC, your cert expired
<dwatkins> considering they're using the images on the original article to get 'young people' interested in it, they're barely at the research stage, I imagine.
<dwatkins> daftykins: I gather they've given up on a lot of the bootloader stuff
<daftykins> ah, i've just gotten an old tegra 3 HTC One X+ from my mum and gonna mod it
<dwatkins> a friend of mine has a fairly recent Desire or similar which he can't unlock the bootloader on as the tools from that site just send him in circles
<dwatkins> something about not being able to update hboot
<daftykins> ah yes
<daftykins> that old chestnut :D
<daftykins> well, firefox opens a window when you select a device on that page and it doesn't have the usual 'ignore cert warnings' option
<daftykins> so i'm a bit stumped right now too
<diddledan> heh, it only expired at 6am today
<daftykins> indeed :D
<daftykins> sod's law eh
<dwatkins> fun times with software version vicious circles, yeah
<daftykins> 8D
<daftykins> in fairness the Desire's are quite old
<daftykins> your friends probably up you know what creek anyway
<daftykins> there we go, phone rebooted to bootloader
<daftykins> still tripping up on the website though
<diddledan> grr, googley play-doh only has robocop available for rental and not purchase
<daftykins> haha
<diddledan> "I'd buy that for a dollar"... if they actually were selling it
<diddledan> annoyingly apple have it for sale in itunes
<daftykins> diddledan: you don't strike me as a DRM fan :<
<diddledan> I'm not
<daftykins> aren't the iTunes ones those paltry tiny low bitrate 'WEB-DL' you often see online?
<daftykins> hmm ok been email'd a .bin with my bootloader unlock code
<diddledan> I am however an instant gratification and HD fan. BluRay covers the HD but fails on instant and DRM. iTunes covers HD and instant but I can't play it on my TV. Googley PlayDoh covers HD partially, plays on my TV but fails on DRM - basically it's a mess of a marketplace
<diddledan> I really want unencrypted downloads
 * diddledan goes off in search of Jolly Roger
<daftykins> lol
<daftykins> yeah it doesn't pay to be legal sadly
<daftykins> you can always buy a BD then download it XD
<diddledan> it sucks
<diddledan> the annoying thing is DRM doesn't prevent piracy
<daftykins> if anything it encourages it
<daftykins> 'cause we can't use the content the way we want
<diddledan> bingo
<diddledan> if the studios had their way you'd be tied to a limited number of devices, too
<diddledan> i.e. "5 players per account"
<ali1234> why not just get a dvb tuner card?
<ali1234> i only watch movies when they are on tv now
<ali1234> http://www.maplin.co.uk/p/pctv-systems-dvb-t2-290e-nanostick-hd-tv-tuner-a86kk?gclid=CjgKEAjwn-WcBRD61NHM-uqDrm4SJADrP4tPVkewKdEFd8_GQWLtwaSCosge1qD3fIYXDiLCoFwNRPD_BwE this is the one you should get, it's the only HD tuner supported on linux afaik
<daftykins> but films on TV are ruined
<diddledan> I've been thinking of something from http://www.tbsdtv.com/
<ali1234> depends what channel you record it from
<ali1234> stick to BBC and C4 and it's okay
<diddledan> e.g. something from this lineup: http://www.tbsdtv.com/products/dvb-s2-tv-tuner-pcie.html
<ali1234> yeah good look getting that to work on linux
<ali1234> actually the satellite stuff might work
<ali1234> for some reason that seems better supported
<ali1234> i think T2 isn't very popular globally
<ali1234> and S2 has more reach for obvious reasons
<daftykins> TV's just... dire
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/kcapfmii6bildc0/IMG-20140612-WA0006.jpg
<daftykins> yay
<daftykins> lol, don't you just hate it when they write the important part of the guide *after* the steps
<daftykins> so you run through, and it's too late
<diddledan> something else I've come across is where they give the crucial advice on how to do it after the steps which are guaranteed to leave your system broken because you didn't read the footnote explaining what you were supposed to do before the steps you followed
<diddledan> kinda like "do a. b. and c. - oh btw, you did do this first, right?"
<diddledan> emphasis on "this"
<diddledan> replace "this" with step -1"
<daftykins> yeah that's exactly this
<daftykins> http://wiki.cyanogenmod.org/w/Install_CM_for_enrc2b
<daftykins> step 11 reboot into your new system
<daftykins> Note: you should've flashed this kernel btw
<daftykins> WAT
<daftykins> lucky i can re-do it :)
<daftykins> oh i didn't even need to restore, ah well
<diddledan> yeah it looks like that page is actually a stock page that they've copy+pasted and put a couple notes on rather than actually curating the content specifically for the device - they mention "some devices do not have removable sd cards" yet the page is specifically about a single device so surely it should be obvious whether to put the sdcard info there or
<diddledan> not
<diddledan> e.g. rather than "some devices don't have" put "this device doesn't have" or don't put the note altogether
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> nevertheless, kernel flashed and i'm in \o/
<daftykins> mission success
<diddledan> well done(TM)
<daftykins> ^_^ ta, although to be fair the guide spells it all out
<daftykins> so it's not like i applied anything other than the ability to read and type  8D
<daftykins> well, and prior knowledge of how to work the android SDK
<diddledan> it's surprising how many folk can't do that tho
<diddledan> i.e. reading and typing
<daftykins> *nod*
<daftykins> having done some teaching, i think we underestimate what we've picked up over the years too
<daftykins> good lord man, it's the 64GB edition 8D
<daftykins> i know it was in the pics before but i didn't quite believe it
<diddledan> :-o
<diddledan> that's a lotta flash
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/0ya47t7obasaiko/Screenshot_2014-06-12-23-48-42.png
<daftykins> look at that beauty
<diddledan> \o/
<shauno> oh yuck.  something's messed up in my bash completion.  if I dd if=20<tab> it 'completes' it to dd 2014...... and drops the if=
#ubuntu-uk 2014-06-13
<daftykins> D:
<shauno> other fun one to note is that bsd's dd doesn't respond well do sigusr1.  it just quits.
<daftykins> aww :(
<daftykins> i kinda wish there was a dd that constantly printed stats
<daftykins> stats are great.
<shauno> "wow, this is taking ages .. I think I'll accidentally kill it and start again"
<daftykins> >:D
<daftykins> you know what took ages? cyanogenmod's 200MB zip copied over USB to this phone at 900KB/sec haha :D
<shauno> oh that sounds like fun :)
<shauno> I still don't get the attraction of android :/
<daftykins> are you an iPhone man?
<shauno> yeah
<daftykins> i find them really illogical devices to use
<daftykins> well, that's not entirely fair - basially their approach just doesn't work for me
<shauno> I have trust issues with google
<daftykins> i love that i could just unlock the bootloader of this HTC and put a vanilla OS on instead of HTC's atrocious thing
<daftykins> yeah, i guess they're not great in some ways, but i don't see Apple being any better
<shauno> apple want my wallet, google want my data
<shauno> I'm much more comfortable with the wallet relationship because I control it
<daftykins> :)
<diddledan> shauno: bsd's dd (or at least apple's) responds to SIGINFO
<shauno> and then there's fun nerdy stuff, like ios actually supports ipv6 properly
<daftykins> i see no practical use for that
<daftykins> my ISP hasn't even switched yet =/
<diddledan> the half of the internet hosted at amazon can't switch or dualstack yet because amazon have thus far refused to turn v6 on
<shauno> I think it's a pretty weird thing for an OS to neglect in 2014
<diddledan> and because amazon havent the isp says not enough benefit and because the isp refuses amazon does the same
<shauno> it's even weirder that android has managed to break parts that worked fine in linux
<diddledan> o_O
<diddledan> howso?
<shauno> connect an android device to a network which has v6, but either doesn't have v4, or doesn't have dhcp on v4
<shauno> it'll bring up v6, send a dhcp request on v4.  and then teardown v6 when it times out waiting for a dhcp response on v4
<diddledan> am I going to have to turn off dhcp to test?
<daftykins> is this not a sweeping statement based on a specific version?
<diddledan> s/to/and/
<diddledan> obviously if I were going to test I'd need to turn off dhcp - that wasn't the question, the question was more "should I test"
<shauno> https://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=32630
<daftykins> there's definitely some quirky stuff going on, i think they said VPN usage is broken on the latest android versions (Nexus devices)
<diddledan> oddness, IPv6 isn't routing for me
<diddledan> it used to work
<daftykins> anyone got a net connection with native v4 and v6? i'm curious how it displays it
<daftykins> 'cause mines web admin makes it look like you can only see the v4 address
<daftykins> sort of... no room to show v6's
<diddledan> oh that'll be why - I turned IP6 to LL-only while testing something
<diddledan> damn, it's friday the thirteenth
<diddledan> what's gonna go wrong?
<shauno> it's friday?!
<diddledan> kinda
<daftykins> mostly
<daftykins> ;D
<shauno> well that's handy I guess
<shauno> I thought it was saturday.  I was waiting until monday to do something, but if tomorrow's friday I can do it then instead
<shauno> hm.  that also means I should go to sleep tonight
<diddledan> sleep?!?!?!!
<shauno> mhm.
<shauno> I don't mind not sleeping, but I tend to adopt the appearance of a crackhead.
<shauno> I have to go talk to the bank sometime soon, so that may not be optimal
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> whilst my parents new PC was installing updates, i went out into the garden
<daftykins> i suddenly realised how deathly pale i look in proper sunlight
<diddledan> want a shoddy scare mongering politico? go to australia: http://www.smh.com.au/it-pro/security-it/julie-bishops-websites-cost-113000-20140605-zrxlh.html
<daftykins> but websites are magic
<diddledan> and a response: http://www.poststat.us/fear-mongering-journalist-pointlessly-blasts-wordpress/
<ali1234> i'll make you a wordpress site for half that
<ali1234> also 5 hours per week maintenance? lol
<shauno> there's probably a lot more going on than just the site itself.  the ones they're actually complaining about, price-wise, are running on Sharepoint
<ali1234> ah
<daftykins> ugh sharepoint
<shauno> easily missed when both the original article & the rebutal spend most their time on the fact her own site is on wordpress, which is a completely disconnected issue
<daftykins> =]
<shauno> do xml documents actually require a root element? or am I going nuts
<diddledan> shauno: I think that depends on the parser
<diddledan> shauno: e.g. xmpp is a stream of independant xml root elements which effectively makes the stream rootless
<shauno> hm.  I'll have to remember that for my next "why on earth is this using xml" rant
<diddledan> JSON is a much friendlier format
<diddledan> and many languages support it as a native thing (the way that javascript would treat it)
<shauno> having with something that "sort of" uses xml files for configuration.  except I'm not convinced they're actually xml
<diddledan> I used to be an advocate of xml. I question my sanity now
<diddledan> evil xml example number 1: apple's .plist format
<diddledan> apple completely failed to understand what xml was about
<diddledan> xml element says to parser: "and the next config you're about to read, is boolean. what do you mean it's not part of me?"
<shauno> hah, yeah.  that one still boggles my mind
<diddledan> it seems they wanted to use xml but didn't want any of that xml-crap
<diddledan> e.g. anything defined by the xml spec
<diddledan> the only similarity is it has <tags>
<shauno> it's an interesting challenge actually trying to parse it though
<diddledan> https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/MVr9dyzk
<diddledan> I think they worked off the idea that you won't keep the document in memory to manipulate but instead run it through as a stream
<diddledan> which means modern xml parsers can't handle it
<diddledan> I believe the xml spec specifically makes a point that documents have no order
<diddledan> something that apple requires
<shauno> right.  that's what makes parsing it fun.  it's almost entirely abusing nth-child
<shauno> and praying no-one uses a dict in a value :/
<shauno> I coulda swore I kept a backup of my retropie config, but apparently not.  so I think I'll shelf it for tonight
<diddledan> "do you ever use your dictaphone?" : "no I use my fingers like everyone else"
<diddledan> sorry, you just reminded me of that
<shauno> remind me to get you spayed
<diddledan> I know you love me really
<diddledan> but being that I'm a guy, and you're a guy, I suppose you have trouble admitting it for fear of "catching gay"
<diddledan> I hear from the religious south that just watching bambi is enough to convert a young man into a raging homosexual. and then once one person in the community has caught it they go around infecting everyone else.
<diddledan> kinda like the film contagion - only worse
<diddledan> </troll>
<shauno> this I may never understand; http://i.imgur.com/ko78wTt.png
<shauno> I mean, it's not dialup bad, but it feels like it
<diddledan> wtf? that's crazyslow
<shauno> yup
<shauno> if you hang a use disk off one of their routers, write operations seem to be incredibly slow.  and creating a metric buttload of hardlinks is a lot of individual write operations
<diddledan> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6iW-8xPw3k
<diddledan> I've got mine plugged-in via USB
<diddledan> that video goes with this article about hacking holes-in-the-wall: http://www.maximumpc.com/teens_demonstrate_easiest_way_hack_atm_rtfm_2014
<mapps> ah got my favourite popup
<mapps> KEVINS GOLDEN GOOSE
<mapps> :d
<shauno> see this I don't get.  that maximumpc site is advertising my isp to me.  for a bundle lower than I'm currently on.  and showing the "first 6 months" price that I can't get because I'm an existing customer
<daftykins> :/
<daftykins> could you cancel then sign up again? :D
<shauno> everyone claims they track us to make advertising "more relevant".  and it's hogwash
<shauno> eg, facebook lately is full of adverts for a hotel that "still has rooms left".  a hotel I've already booked.
<diddledan> shauno: doesn't stop them tracking you
<shauno> I get amazon ads for things I've just bought too
<diddledan> >.<
<daftykins> http://www.maximumpc.com/files/u22694/beautyflat.jpg
<daftykins> haha my same speaker set
<daftykins> hilarious how many places it shows up
<shauno> hah, I was just looking at that too
<diddledan> needs moar screens
<daftykins> and better screens at that
<daftykins> those look a tad basic for such an effort to go to :D
<shauno> I'm not sure I'd agree with "and looked good in the living room" though
<daftykins> indeed
<shauno> anyway, bedtime :)
<daftykins> nn sir
<daftykins> ah, Captain Scarlet amuses me so
<daftykins> the way they say "SIG" to each other, i like to think it really means s*** is good, not 'Spectrum is Green'
<diddledan> perhaps they acronymed s*** is good and then backronymed to spectrum is green and told everyone that's what it always meant?
<daftykins> >:D
<daftykins> well, sadly they say it longhand sometimes too
<diddledan> does anyone have any experience with vyatta (or the now opensource project fork vyos as would be what I would install - brocade bought the original and ceased releasing the community edition)
<daftykins> annoying when takeovers do that
<mapps> off in 30mins
<mapps> :D
<daftykins> \o/
<mapps> iphone/nexus7/netbook:D
<mapps> nexus7 for flight..cant use a netbook no room really
<daftykins> lol
<daftykins> true gadget geekery
<mapps> ja
<daftykins> i think i'll go to the wedding at the end of the month without a lappy
<daftykins> only 3 or 4 days :>
<mapps> pffff
<mapps> but why
<daftykins> nice to have a break
<mapps> pfff
<mapps> lies
<daftykins> ;]
<MooDoo> morning all
<knightwise> morning Moodoo
<knightwise> anyone else noticed that 14.04 has a hard time connecting to bleutooth mice ?
<knightwise> Cannot for the life of me connect my macbook pro to my apple touchpad OR my apple mouse
<knightwise> strange.
<dwatkins> allo allo
<Myrtti> gah. what a morning
<nigelb> ouch
<nigelb> that's not a good start :)
<dwatkins> hope things improve, Myrtti
<Myrtti> it's not bad, I just feel like someone has whacked me with a bag full of sleep sprinkles
<Myrtti> I do hate summer a bit
 * dwatkins sends Myrtti some Scottish rain
<Myrtti> it's hot, because it's summer. Can't keep the windows open really, because bugs and pollen. If you do keep windows open, they won't help a lot because you'd need to keep the curtains open too. If you keep curtains open, you wake up at latest 5am (if in UK).
<MooDoo> I could easily lie down at my desk and go to sleep lol
<Myrtti> Winter is lovely. Less bugs, nights are dark, and temperature can be adjusted with woollen socks and radiators.
<Myrtti> no pollen either
<dwatkins> Winter is coming.
<diddledan> only 4 months
<dwatkins> indeed, and only 193 sleeps until christmas
<MooDoo> yay
<popey> Morning!
<popey> How many sleeps until we stop hearing about a) World Cup, and b) Scotland
<Myrtti> I actually kinda watched the first game yesterday
<Myrtti> well, the last half at least
<Myrtti> football I'm not too keen on but it's still a tradition to try atleast to watch the first game
<popey> ahh
<Myrtti> ice hockey on the other hand... a bit more interested in that. Not enough to keep a tab on NHL or the Finnish league, but Olympics and the World Championships
<czajkowski> popey: best app to use for twitter on ubuntu ?
<popey> i use tweetdeck in a browser tab
<czajkowski> cant use that atm though
<popey> have done for some time because all twitter clients suck
<popey> why not?
<czajkowski> ah it's been fixed
<popey> â¥ that thing?
<czajkowski> http://gizmodo.com/if-you-use-tweetdeck-for-chrome-you-should-log-out-now-1589323654
<czajkowski> there was an issue this week
<czajkowski> dear sweden why are you so god damn expensive!
<popey> indeed, there was.
<Myrtti> I first thought I'd answer that but I noticed it wasn't really a question
<czajkowski> Myrtti: ;)
<czajkowski> Myrtti: just looking at yesterdays receipts I got a cab as in a hurry from the station to my hotel which cost 25 quid
<czajkowski> and the train from the airport to the station was 20 quid
<Myrtti> but the short answer would be distance from more fertile and sunny areas of Europe, distance between habitational areas and no oil reserves of their own.
<czajkowski> which was a lot better value. just boggling how they have tourists here
<popey> everywhere has tourists
<czajkowski> shall walk to the station today, 13 min walk :)
<czajkowski> Oslo was very pretty on tuesday, Helsinki on wednesday meant I got ot meet jussi which was nice! but everything there is so massively spread out.
<Myrtti> tourists are usually instructed and nudged to use tourist bus passes
<Myrtti> s/bus/public transport/
<Myrtti> ah, forgot to mention the amount of capital tied to brick walls due to higher building and upkeep costs.
<Myrtti> boo, no mail for us :-(
<czajkowski> still it's been nice to visit over here, but as of today no more travel for a week! \o/
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Friday, and happy Sewing Machine Day! :-D
<bashrc> happy sewing machine day
<MooDoo> It's friday the 13th, that overrides any other day :)
<popey> pffft
<foobarry> don't tell my wife its sewing machine day
<foobarry> every day is sewing machine day in our house
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
 * dwatkins finally gets business cards
<TwistedLucidity> dwatkins: How many spelling mistooks? :-)
<dwatkins> thankfully none, TwistedLucidity
<dwatkins> I checked the form several times before submitting
<TwistedLucidity> I have a simple surname. The number of times people get in wrong staggers me.
<knightwise> does anyone know what terminal app Elementary Uses ?
<knightwise> I would  love to use that theme on my Ubuntu standard install
<diddledan> I've got a private nameserver set up on a non-routable IP. I'm wondering if I can use a public NS delegation record to point to the private server so it works seamlessly without having to change my lan to use the private dns server as it's forwarder?
<diddledan> I ask because I set up just such a record last night and it still isn't working - the NS record itself comes out of public dns fine
<foobarry> pantheon-terminal
<foobarry> knightwise:  ^^
<foobarry> there is also an elementary theme
<knightwise> foobarry: :) Too bad the nobel prizes for smartasses are all handed out
<knightwise> foobarry: elementary theme for ubuntu ?
<foobarry> yes
<knightwise> ahaa
<knightwise> just found it
<knightwise> interesting :)
<knightwise> any of you guys using a bleutooth mouse on 14.01
<knightwise> 14.04
<diddledan> looks like my problem is with google's public forwarding nameservers - a query for subdomain.example.com specifically asking for ns records from 8.8.8.8 returns correctly but changing the query to any returns a blank result
<diddledan> opendns' servers respond correctly
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<diddledan> oh I tell a lie, it's my ISP I'm querying
<diddledan> changing to a more reliable resolving server still doens't fix my problem tho
<diddledan> I can query the server I've delegated to fine and I can query the delegation but for some reason my systems aren't completing the lookup
<diddledan> ok, maybe this will fix my problem, but doesn't answer the initial question as to whether it's possible: I've told my router to split dns requests for my subdomain.example.com to the correct server without relying on NS record resolution
<davmor2> bigcalm: you up yet?
<bigcalm> Â¬,Â¬
<bigcalm> davmor2: I've been up since 8.45am
<bigcalm> Which is a very early start for me
<davmor2> bigcalm: I finally found a really nice image for xoom do you want the details?
<davmor2> cm11 4.4.2 :)
<MooDoo> davmor2: I've removed CM from my phone, it was a bag of poo on my s3, running miui now
<bigcalm> davmor2: sure. breath some life into the old dog
<davmor2> MooDoo: yeah but still gets update the xoom has had none for ages I think it was android 4.0 or 4.1 so half the apps no longer work
<MooDoo> davmor2: that's the only down side i have it's 4.1.1
<dwatkins> I'm still running CM 7.0.1 on my Desire HD, it's based on Gingerbread.
<foobarry> dwatkins: my htc desire will be retired when i get a moto G LTE version
<foobarry> running CM7
<foobarry> someone is "vape-ing" in the office :-|
<bigcalm> Farting?
<foobarry> not comfortable with it.
<foobarry> no, e-cig
<dwatkins> foobarry: yeah, one of my colleagues has one of those, it's very disconcerting
<popey> isn't it just glycerol?
<dwatkins> it creates visible vapour and there's also nicotine in it, of course
<foobarry> yep
<Myrtti> and flavours and possibly nicotine
<foobarry> considering we have staff members who throw a paddy when air con is turned on, i don't think e-cig will be looked on favourably
<dwatkins> heh, I wish our air con would get turned off - it's set to permanently heat my part of the office
<foobarry> 4.4. Users are not permitted to smoke in any area of the Library (Smoking electronic cigarettes to be included within this regulation).
<foobarry> probably applies to other offices
<foobarry> the smoking policy is well outdated
<foobarry> Smoking
<foobarry> refers to smoking tobacco or anything which contains tobacco, or smoking
<foobarry> any other substance. Smoking also includes being in posse
<foobarry> ssion of lit tobacco or of
<foobarry> anything lit which contains tobacco, or bei
<foobarry> ng in possession of any other lit substance
<foobarry> in a form which it could be smoked
<foobarry> 1
<foobarry> reading a book with rubbish photography, and in the intro the author says, yeah i'm rubbish at photography :-| even though the photos are a really important part of the book. i thought publishers were more professional than this :o|
<davmor2> MooDoo: did you have a play with lxc yet?
<SuperMatt> <3 lxc
<SuperMatt> may more than docker
<SuperMatt> ^way
<davmor2> SuperMatt: did you see the lxc uos sessions they look awesome lxc nesting looks crazy
<SuperMatt> I didn't
<SuperMatt> I will go back and watch them though
<SuperMatt> I was the company to use lxc more
<MooDoo> davmor2: no not yet, I've not got the memory for my dedi yet which should come today, I'll then need to install ubuntu and then play with it
<MooDoo> davmor2: well it doesn't look to hard lxc-create etc
<davmor2> MooDoo: muhahahahaha
<MooDoo> davmor2: oh I see luring me into a false sense of security eh?  I might as well just bloomin learn juju over night
<popey> \o/ lxc
<popey> i use lxc at home, tis fun
<MooDoo> popey: davmor2 has conned me into trying it now i've got a new server at home
<popey> hah
<popey> i used juju for a bit at home
<popey> which can use lxc underneath the covers
<popey> juju deploy minecraft
<popey> â»
<popey> instant minecraft server for a quick game, then destroy it when done
<bigcalm> I miss snowflake
<popey> snowflake?
<popey> oh, did she shut it down?
<bigcalm> Something like the server can't run mc any more
<bigcalm> I lack details to impart
<popey> ok
<MooDoo> my son loves minecraft :)
<davmor2> MooDoo: Juju and lxc rock,  Juju + lxc + a cloud account rock harder
<diddledan> I'm hungry
<davmor2> diddledan: pleased to meet you Hungry I'm Dave
<MooDoo> davmor2: I'll stick with stock ubuntu and lxc while I play with it.
<bigcalm> If I want to install a package from a .deb that I already have installed from the repos, should I uninstall the installed version 1st?;
<popey> bigcalm: no
<foobarry> http://www.linuxvoice.com/free-sample-issue-2/
<bigcalm> popey: ta
<awilkins> Shiny, ice-cream tub-bot
 * awilkins reflects that in a more innocent age, "tub-bot" would not conjure forth awful images
<davmor2> awilkins: you were thinking robot wars with a bot made from a cast iron bath tub too right ?
<bigcalm> awilkins: stop saying tub
<awilkins|tub> So, Canada has a gay head of state now.
<TwistedLucidity> awilkins|tub: Nice to have a happy politician for a change.
<ali1234> i tried to use juju yesterday: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/juju-core/+bug/1329429
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 1329429 in juju-core (Ubuntu) "local bootstrap fails" [Undecided,New]
<foobarry> i can taste that vape pipe
<foobarry> when it is smoked near me
<foobarry> is it national go home early day today?
<popey> I might go and light the bbq
<TwistedLucidity> It's post release round my way. We're having a breather....
<diddledan> awilkins|tub: it's not as bad as combining tub and girl
<awilkins> You're a bad man
<diddledan> hehe
<diddledan> yes. yes I am.
<diddledan> interesting, I just received an email from synergy-project.org detailing https://synergy-enterprise.com
<bigcalm> The release email is buzz word tastic!
<bigcalm> "With Synergy Enterprise we provide a professional solution backed by enterprise-level technical support. Our bug prioritization and feature selection process is carefully tailored to customer requirements and appropriateness for the commercial environment."
<diddledan> it's not badly priced either: $79/use
<diddledan> user
<diddledan> let me try that again: $79/user/year
<shauno> that's a pretty terrible webpage though :/
<bigcalm> $79 per mouse movement
<bigcalm> Heh
<shauno> the actual "what is synergy" bit looks like fineprint
<bigcalm> Early finish so I can drive to south wales!
<bigcalm> Was meant to finish earlier, but work has been relentless
<bigcalm> Have a good weekend peeps
<shauno> I'm not sure how to say "have fun in south wales" without sounding like I'm taking the mick ;)
<bigcalm> shauno: you sound like my boss :P
<bigcalm> Going to spend time in the Brecon Beacons
<diddledan> leisure suit larry reloaded is currently $3.99 over on gog.com (drm free)
<diddledan> windows and mac only tho
<bigcalm> Might run on wine
 * bigcalm disappears
<shauno> I thoguht most the gog games were in dosbox containers?
<diddledan> only the ones that started out as dos games
<diddledan> I'm not sure I agree with this: http://blog.rht.com/real-reason-became-developer/
<mapps> yo
<mapps> well that aint ideal
<mapps> layed a horse based on my pictures and just lost 1200 quid
<mapps> didnt know i ws 5 seconds behind
<diddledan> o_O
<gebbione> life is a bitch
<daftykins> ok.
<mapps> yep
<mapps> :D
<mapps> just kinda annoying..being that im at a diasvantage
<mapps> disadvantage
<mapps> but who cares
<mapps> i  bet mexico and under 2.5 ;0
<mapps> ive bet spain and over for the next game :D
<ali1234> does anyone know where i can get a static busybox 2.0 for armel?
<diddledan> ali1234: compile it
<ali1234> nvm i found it in sid
<ali1234> and it's 1.22 not 2.0
<diddledan_> we've got lightning directly overhead
<diddledan_> I'm skeered
#ubuntu-uk 2014-06-14
<bashrc> is there any way to turn off the dash for a specific application?
<foobarry> think mapps lost a lot of cash on the spain game
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<daftykins> o/
<foobarry> o/
<Armag3dd0n24> morning :D
<foobarry> an new face?
<Armag3dd0n24> ?
<daftykins> nah he always looks that way ;)
<Armag3dd0n24> she*
<foobarry> http://www.wimp.com/barehand/
<foobarry> love this
<foobarry> oh
<foobarry> snopes
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<daftykins> you can't get much faker than that
<foobarry> slo mo you see the ball going in diff direction
<foobarry> i'm not correcting hte people on facebook about it because they seem so happy
<foobarry> why spoils their day for the TRUTH
<foobarry> how to i reverse eraser tool in gimp?
<foobarry> not undo, but undo with eraser?
<foobarry> anti erase = alt
<foobarry> http://i.imgur.com/4YUT2ad.png
<foobarry> finished
<daftykins> :D
<SuperEngineer> 5 days into move from 12.04 to 14.04 & I have to admit that I like it.  A few bugs to iron out, but yeh, it'll do me just fine.
<SuperEngineer> one thing probably not a bug but a removal is "magnier" missing from Compiz manager - having to use KMag instead which is not a good substitute,
<SuperEngineer> *magnifier
<SuperEngineer> ..if the facebook web app didn't show the messages from daughter in such small text - wouldn't even need it.  darn you daughter - get off fb ;)
<daftykins> http://www.redbull.com/en/bike/stories/1331658405590/course-preview-man-down-in-leogang
<SuperEngineer> ["sorry dad, I've no credit left on the phone"]
<SuperEngineer> daftykins: .. can't see that - I have the FacebookMessenger running which means "Firefox is already running, but is not responding. To open a new window, you must first close the existing Firefox process, or restart your system."  DOH!
<SuperEngineer> ;)
 * SuperEngineer opens chromium
<daftykins> O_O
<daftykins> a sure sign facebook is evil
<SuperEngineer> +1
<SuperEngineer> hmm.. just noticed there's no xchat showing in indicator area - and just found dconf editor no longer has the magic unity/panel bit
 * SuperEngineer spits
<daftykins> how rude!
<SuperEngineer> sorry
<daftykins> clean that up ^_^
 * SuperEngineer would - but has just fired up work's under-powered laptop - busy now watching paint dry!
<daftykins> ouch, how bad is it?
<daftykins> spec wise
<SuperEngineer> 1/ *very bad*
<SuperEngineer> 2/ it is *so* bad it doesn't have a spec ;)
<daftykins> well, you best feed the hamster
<SuperEngineer> even my boss agrees with me when I winge about it!
<SuperEngineer> [just asked it to shut down [that'll only take 5 minutes!]
<knightwise> hey guyssss
<SuperEngineer> & when I re-start it -to get to full working desktop - 20 minutes!
<daftykins> SuperEngineer: O_O that seems obscene
<SuperEngineer> [& they wonder why I use a Xubuntu HP mini as a documentation machine for works tech docs]
 * SuperEngineer makes mental note - update HP mini to 14.04 sometime soon
<knightwise> using 14.04 on my production machines right now
<SuperEngineer> time to go offline methinks - must update the external backup disk
<SuperEngineer> bfn
<daftykins> o/
<daftykins> i wonder what's going on in the castle, we normally have the daily noon day gun, but i've just heard over 15 shots
<daftykins> perhaps the civil war is back on
<penguin42> 21 gun salute?
<daftykins> penguin42: you could be right there :O probably was about that number :)
<daftykins> ah Queens birthday?
<penguin42> hmm possible - it is around this time of the year
<daftykins> "The Queen celebrates two birthdays each year: her actual birthday on 21 April and her official birthday on a Saturday in June."
<penguin42> yeh, birthday honours are in the paper
<GoneProtoss> Hi all
 * penguin42 frees 7G after finding an old build of xulrunner
<SuperEngineer> well, that's the new "/" & the new "/home" partitions backed up to external disk - I can breathe now :)
<SuperEngineer> tonight... backup the internal quick [daily] backup 2nd disk to the external disk
 * SuperEngineer just heard external drive give a groan!  [heard it mumble something about me sleeping & it has to wake up] ;)
 * SuperEngineer is worried - heard the external drive groan re backing up up tonight [again] - but it's not even powered yet!
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: Can you shut my drive up - it's noisy...
<SuperEngineer> penguin42: oy! drive! - SHUDDUP!
<SuperEngineer> [was that any help?]
<penguin42> hmm no
<SuperEngineer> soz
 * penguin42 has put on a more noisy computer so can't hear that one
 * SuperEngineer likes the rationale
 * SuperEngineer starts backup of 2nd dive... this will take a while... bfn
#ubuntu-uk 2014-06-15
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<daftykins> me right now: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JEmklTvAkbM
<penguin42> hmm, hadn't looked up the lyrics for 'Super Trouper before - I wonder how the people of Glasgow feel about the line 'I was sick and tired of everything When I called you last night from Glasgow'
<mapps> hi al
<diddledan> m00
<mapps> sup
<daftykins> hello
<daftykins> mapps: what's new?
<mapps> not much
<mapps> in czech now
<mapps> :D
<daftykins> :O
<diddledan> what are you doing in such a random place?
<daftykins> mapps: Pilsner Urquell comes highly recommended by a mate, though he's not into the kinda drinks i am. Czech beer, though
<diddledan> I think doesn'texististan is near there, right?
<mapps> it is nice daftykins
<mapps> but i feel too rough to drink atm tbh
<diddledan> aah, you've got chequered-belly :-p
<diddledan> anyone fancy a game of chess?
<mapps> hahaha diddledan  seeing a friend
<diddledan> :-p
<mapps> i work with
<mapps> ;D
<diddledan> mapps can be the chess-board
<daftykins> i'm at last taking apart my own laptop
<popey> moo
<daftykins> feels kinda... weird to be working on my own
<daftykins> popey: o/
<shauno> because you've no-one else to blame if you find fully-grown dust bunnies in there?
<diddledan> popey: my sentiments exactly - as evidenced by my own utterance at [20:26:07]
<daftykins> shauno: i will definitely be blaming my cat
<shauno> I'm not sure I'd trust a cat with cleaning the fan vents
<diddledan> cats are likely to forget the anti-static strap
<shauno> or make poor contact with it
<daftykins> why yes, we all use said straps *whistle*
<popey> I think i may re-install ubuntu on my laptop
<popey> pondering what disk layout to use
<mapps> daftykins,  howcome youre working
<diddledan> popey: I'd go for MBR or GPT myself
<diddledan> </troll> :-p
<shauno> tsk tsk tsk daftykins
<popey> pondering raid0
<diddledan> ooh, pushing the boat out
<daftykins> mapps: given it being sunday?
<popey> wondering if it actually will make any difference
<shauno> you really should.  almost all esd damage is really, really subtle.
<mapps> just doing what
<daftykins> popey: across a pair o' SSDs?
<popey> yes
<daftykins> do recent Linux kernels pass TRIM to members of such a config fine, still?
<popey> yes
<daftykins> i believe in the Windows world it's been a quirk/challenge with Intel drivers for quite some time
<popey> but there's some evidence that its better to not do that
<popey> but just run a cron job periodically to trim the drives
<daftykins> interesting
<daftykins> mapps: SSD upgrade time
<mapps> ah
<daftykins> ha-har, a perfectly clean cooler
<daftykins> not even a cat living with me has tainted this Asus yet :>
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/xk74zq82f1f5ivc/AAC9bMkfSRTl-DRJo6DZbdKHa
<diddledan> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9HD5vDs0RBY
<daftykins> haha
<daftykins> now the Stig stuff is the part of TG that i *can* handle, since there's no talking ;)
<diddledan> lol
<daftykins> thank you Guernsey health benefit card, you make opening my laptop so easy
<diddledan> :-)
<daftykins> haha, benchmarking this new SSD now
<daftykins> omw
<diddledan> that bad?
<daftykins> that good!
<diddledan> bah
<daftykins> 256GB Crucial m4 -> 512GB Crucial MX100
<diddledan> ooh, twice as long
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/480wh0a1uh1w50z/Crucial%20upgrade.png
<diddledan> doubled the top two
<diddledan> the bottom two are similar or slightly better
<diddledan> I wonder why the write on 4k went down?
<daftykins> yeah, not sure
<daftykins> it's pretty close though
<diddledan> might be because the operating system is different
<daftykins> amusingly Crucial's website doesn't even have the MX100 listed on the support pages yet
<daftykins> ja
<diddledan> so it's more a platform issue
<diddledan> at least overall it's a much faster drive
<daftykins> will i see it of course, is another thing... but meh, twice the size
<daftykins> Â£133 delivered for 512GB and that performance is just... mind blowing
<diddledan> yeah, I tend to be of the opinion with SSD that provided it is "average speed for an ssd" I won't notice much difference between different models - it's the transition from hdd to ssd that I'll notice
<daftykins> absolutely
<diddledan> and as you say, space has been the problem with SSD until recently
<diddledan> finally we're getting decent space for the price
<diddledan> it's almost worthwhile now for putting things on besides your OS
<diddledan> I've got a 128G in my desktop - it's too small to do anything with really
<daftykins> yeah, i could *almost* consider putting my music collection on
<diddledan> considering the main benefit is for games which need to load large textures and models it's really been a case that you can only have one decent AAA game installed at a time
<diddledan> consider for example the starwarts online thingy is a 20GB download
<diddledan> p.s. pew pew
<daftykins> lol
<daftykins> knew this would happen
<daftykins> i accidentally activated my win8.1 upgrade copy once in a VM
<diddledan> just phone the number
<diddledan> I've done it many times
<daftykins> i just had to phone MS and go through the whole system of entering 8 blocks of 6 digits
<daftykins> yarr
<daftykins> have you heard their new audible CAPTCHA? :)
<diddledan> is it meant to be a CAPTCHA?
<daftykins> hilariously it's asked me to enter "eleven" on both calls i've recently placed, now
<daftykins> i'd expect so
<diddledan> or just a way of calibrating?
<daftykins> calibrating 0o
<diddledan> e.g. press # twice
<daftykins> well a guy's voice says "for security purposes please enter the number: <number in word form>"
<diddledan> yeah, they route all those calls to the US so I would imagine they have to cope with various different country-specific tones
<daftykins> *nod*
<daftykins> now for 947MB of updates (round 1)
<diddledan> I'm not saying you're wrong, and I'm right, just positing an alternative thought - it could be either really
<diddledan> maybe they have had issues with pirates gaming the phoneline?
<diddledan> pirates are a pretty inventive lot, so it wouldn't surprise me if they'd found a way of automating activations
<daftykins> :) yeah, i figured they may've done something
<daftykins> it was a bit odd that i just had to press 1 to say i had it installed only on 1 computer
<daftykins> i know that's been true for years, but their records would show two vastly different hardware IDs
<diddledan> yeah, I've done that route many times
<diddledan> I've even switched between virtual install to physical and back many times
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> with much time between each transition?
<diddledan> usually the old system had been offline for a while so they may have marked it as idle/dead by the time I installed anew. as to successive switches it's sometimes been as close as a week
<daftykins> diddledan: i just decided to benchmark a fair selection of my drives
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/p59zslb8e7wy9ms/drives.png
<andreas> Hi guys. I have installed ubuntu 14.04 at my Dell Inpiron. However I have huge problem with my wifi. It finds my wifi hotspot
<andreas> and connect to that.
<daftykins> ok
<daftykins> but?
<andreas> however, it gets disconnected after a couple of minutes
<andreas> and I have no Idea why...
<daftykins> were you by any chance asking this very question in #ubuntu just earlier this evening?
<andreas> It stays connected only for a few minutes and again disconnected...
<andreas> No :)
<andreas> I have just opened IRC
<daftykins> ok just checking, i thought i saw part of a very similar conversation
<daftykins> have you attempted to view logs to see what happens at the point of these disconnections?
<andreas> yes, but I am very new to this, and I have no idea what the problem might be...
<andreas> Do you want to paste that at pastebin?
<andreas> *do you want me to paste this to pastebin?
<daftykins> that would definitely be best yeah, probably the kernel log for issues of that kind i think - this is a bit of a grey area for my experience
<andreas> ok, thanks, I am doing that now :)
<daftykins> andreas: also, do you know what the chipset/card is? a pastebin of "lspci" would be handy, or perhaps just the line from your Dell invoice if it's a new machine
<diddledan> o_O I just watched a discovery channel docu which is copyright MCMXV
<diddledan> aka 1915
<diddledan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iV33Q6Nw990
<diddledan> it's in colour
<diddledan> and it features nuclear submarines
<diddledan> methinks someone got the date wrong?
<daftykins> lol
<daftykins> that would've made for a very different WW1
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> ooh, I just noticed boobtube uses ssl by default now?
<diddledan> or issit because I'm on a gapps domain user?
<daftykins> only one way to confirm, use a nude browser!
<diddledan> seems to not use ssl in an icognito window
<andreas> hi daftykins. Appologies for the delay, I had some problems. Here's the file https://www.dropbox.com/s/k70crfqdogcuapg/sdf.txt
<andreas> and I am uploading the results of the lspci now
<daftykins> andreas: no problem, is that an example of the issue right there prior to the frequency table?
<daftykins> wlan0: CTRL-EVENT-DISCONNECTED bssid=40:18:b1:74:5d:54 reason=3 locally_generated=1
<andreas> daftykins: here is the result of the lspci as well http://tny.cz/40147171
<daftykins> ok so we're looking at an intel 2230
<diddledan> your dhcp server is set to renew leases every 30 seconds?!
<andreas> daftykins, I am sorry, I couldn't understand your question about the frequency table...
<daftykins> don't worry
<andreas> thanks :)
<diddledan> andreas: it might be that your connection is requiring ipv6 but your ipv6 dhcp server isn't responding
<daftykins> andreas: and so we're definitely on stock 14.04 64-bit? fully upgraded?
<daftykins> andreas: ah, you're stuck on your university's residential wireless service i see? are you in halls? :)
<andreas> daftykins: thanks a lot. Yes I use 14.04 fully upgraded
<diddledan> oh, did nobody tell the university that .local domain is reserved for avahi/mdns?
<andreas> Yes, I use my university's residential wireless service. That's true, I'm staying in halls
<diddledan> that might be why avahi is complaining about invalid this and that :-)
<daftykins> andreas: ok, that's useful as it means we know we can't reconfigure the other end
<diddledan> andreas: hope you do well on your course :-)
<daftykins> diddledan: is your IPv6 idea worth a run?
<andreas> diddledan: I have no idea about the avahi ...
<andreas> diddledan: Yes, thankfully :)
<diddledan> andreas: I think avahi is just moaning - I don't think that's the cause of your issue
<andreas> diddledan: Thanks. Do you have any clue on what might be the problem?
<andreas> diddledan: or what I could try to fix it?
<diddledan> I can't actually see it disconnecting alot in the log
<diddledan> there's loads of dhcp renews on an already established connection
<diddledan> this might be a problem but I don't know why: Jun 15 23:28:33 Oxford NetworkManager[908]: <info> (eth0): DHCPv4 state changed renew -> renew
<diddledan> it's going straight from renew state to another renew state instead of accepting the address info
<andreas> diddledan: At some point, I had decided to use a wire instead of wireless...So that line maybe the result of this change
<diddledan> aah yes, I missed that that line references eth0 not wlan0
<andreas> :)
<diddledan> wood/trees
<daftykins> you know those issues i was having with 14.04's samba the other day?
<daftykins> i was missing an = sign in the path definition =|
<daftykins> i hadn't run testparm >_<
<diddledan> oops
<daftykins> my eyes didn't even see it
#ubuntu-uk 2015-06-08
<mapp> hi ;D
<daftykins> mornin'
<mapp> ;]
<mapp> slept or still up?:)
<daftykins> does it matter
<mapp> no
<mapp> just wondered';[
<daftykins> ^_^
<mapp> was just making conversation;[
<mapp> on last ep of aquarius now!
<daftykins> hah
<daftykins> i'm continuing this amazon prime series 'Bosch' which i read a book that it's based on, of
<mapp> seen it!
<mapp> was decent
<mapp> hat ep you on?
<mapp> *what
<daftykins> #2
<daftykins> i watched the pilot for free on this FireTV stick thing
<daftykins> now, slightly amusingly, i'm watching the whole lot via Kodi on the same toy :>
<mapp> hm not sure what Kodi is
<mapp> will google in sec;)
<daftykins> XBMCs new name
<knightwise> Kodi linux ?
<knightwise> good morning btw peeps
<mapp> morning
<mapp> my throat hurts :(
<mapp> damn cigarettes
<mapp> finished 13 eps of Aquarius in 3 days;D
<knightwise> Aquarius ?
<mapp> yea
<mapp> new series on cbs i think 13 eps
<mapp> about charles manson
<mapp> it's 'ok'
<mapp> nothing to write home about
<mapp> Wayward Pines way better in terms of new series
<knightwise> We are watching "Boss" with Kelsey Grammar
<knightwise> very good show. But we can manage about one episode every night
<mapp> hmmm i think i saw some
<mapp> did it get canned?
<mapp> I loe my nexus7 take it to work to watch tv eps in breaks ..use it for when i fly..when i get trains etc;D
<knightwise> mapp: i think it got canned after season 2 , not sure
<knightwise> We hardly watch any tv at all
<knightwise> I think 1 hour a day ...
<knightwise> Mapp , you should excersise more
<mapp> i do
<mapp> i go to spinning 2x/week
<mapp> weights 3-4x
<knightwise> whowh :)
<mapp> sometimes go running in the am too:D
<knightwise> you do more then i do  :p)
<mapp> its nice running here always warm
<Guest56354> hello all
<MooDoo> that would be hello all
<knightwise> Hello MooDoo
<mapp> hello
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<mapp> whatup
<brobostigon> morning mapp
<mapp> sup pal
<mapp> has anyne used iadyn? tryning to set afraid.org dns to auto update
 * MooDoo wonders if it's time to go home yet?
<Odd_Bloke> Morning.
 * brobostigon gets MooDoo a big fully pillow and his bear.
<brobostigon> fluffy*
<mapp> where are you
<mapp> worked a nightshift MooDoo?
<MooDoo> mapp: no i'm just at work and the first call was printer not working, so technically inept they don't even know how to check if the printer is indeed switched on
<MooDoo> I really really give up
<mapp> lol
<mapp> ive got like loadsa mosquitor bites
<mapp> so not all rosey here either;p
<brobostigon> :(
<mapp> ya its annoying
<mapp> ike bitten to shreds when i open my windows
<mapp> legs/arms ;/
<mapp> ned to get some window nets
<mapp> gonna try and get a mortgage on a place here once my accounts opened here
<mapp> cant see myself ever coming back to miserable uk:P
<popey> morning
<mapp> morning popey
<MooDoo> howdy
<DJones> MooDoo: I had a message over the weekend that one of our servers couldn't transfer data from depots, support people couldn't connect to the machine, 1st thought was windows updates had caused it to update & shut down, turned out it was windows updates that'd killed logmein, still can't understand why the ITS supprt had left a server to allow unattended windows updates
<MooDoo> DJones: annoying isn't it
<popey> oops
<DJones> MooDoo: Yep, its not as if I was going to drive to work to check it out
<knightwise> Yeey ! Calendar app on Ubuntu phone now syncs with Gmail ! :)
<popey> heh
<knightwise> one step closer to using it as my main phone !
<MooDoo> DJones: mine was a printer not working, wasn't turned on
<DJones> Just tell them that if it happens again, the solution is a pen and paper
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<davmor2> Morning all
<MooDoo> morning davmor2
<davmor2> I forgot how depressing your inbox is after a week off
<bashrc_> spam?
<davmor2> bashrc: no I work at canonical 600+ emails a day
<popey> Welcome back Mr davmor2
<bashrc_> presumably after reading all the emails you just go home #jobdone
<TwistedLucidity> 600+ a day is not manageable. Just processing that number would take nearly 8 hours, leading to zero productivity.
<TwistedLucidity> People use email too much....
<TwistedLucidity> Well, they use email for things that email should not be used for (e.g. document distribution)
<bashrc_> if it's internal communication don't folks at Canonical use IRC?
<davmor2> no most of it is less important launchpad stuff that you can skip, some of it however is important to youso you have to kind of semi filter it all first.
<popey> bashrc_: we use irc too
<popey> a lot
<popey> but you get emails whenever there's a comment on a merge proposal
<popey> or whenever a bot touches them
<popey> or when apps are uploaded to the store etc
<bashrc_> yes I imagine that could be a lot of email
<TwistedLucidity> "Email alert: You just got an email"....
<bashrc_> Email alert notification: you just got an email alert
<awilkins> If I was getting 600+ a day then I'd be creating a bunch of email rules
<davmor2> awilkins: I do you still need to filter through them with your eyes to see if you need to reply to anything
<davmor2> although to be honest I then to just search for my name in the bug mail folder and read through those first that gets rid of a 1/2 of those :)
<nucc1> is there a way to make a window that is being rendered outside the visible area of my screen come back to being visible?
<awilkins> Reading a book on management at Red Hat
<awilkins> Wondering how much like Red Hat, Canonical is
<nucc1> I am able to make the window fullscreen, and then see it, but otherwise, it's invisible
<awilkins> nucc1, Hmm. On Windows, there's this thing where you can trigger a "move" on the window via the taskbar item
<nucc1> awilkins: linux used to have this too, but the age of the "modern" window manager has eliminated those options
<awilkins> You can't drag the window because it's offscreen but the arrow keys will "grab" it and then you can move it back onscreen with the mouse
<awilkins> nucc1, How about one of "move to preset" key combos?
<awilkins> ctrl-alt-5
<awilkins> (numpad 5)
<nucc1> no good
<davmor2> MooDoo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yyxkODGdp1E
<nucc1> my keyboard is one of those where the numpad is accessible via Fn key.
<nucc1> the only options in the dock are quit, and lock to launcher
<nucc1> ah
<nucc1> i think i found it
<nucc1> so basically, i used unity-tweak to reduce my desktop to 1 workspace only
<nucc1> and somehow the window found it's way to workspace 2.
<nucc1> as soon as I added 2 workspaces, i could see the window on the second workspace
<MooDoo> davmor2: lol :D
<popey> nucc1: alt-tab to it, then alt-space, M, to activate "move"
<nucc1> popey: thanks. i found the window sitting on workspace 2 after i enabled the switcher.
<popey> ahhh
<nucc1> seems one can't run with only one workspace anymore
<popey> cool
<popey> i do
<nucc1> i was until now :)
<popey> heh
<mapp> bed time for me
<mapp> ;D
 * awilkins wonders if he should experiment with a 3x3 workspace
<mapp> cant wait to move out
<mapp> cant smoke in my room here=[
<awilkins> Get an e-cig?
<davmor2> awilkins: a 3 px by 3 px workspace would be way to small :P
<nucc1> I find multi-monitor easier to handle mentally than multi-workspace
<nucc1> i wind up with dozens of window and throwing workspaces into the mix just makes my head explode
<awilkins> As Terry Pratchett used to say : the only reason I have 3 monitors, is because my tech guy can't fit 6 on here
<awilkins> (I only have 2, my GPU won't support 3)
<knightwise> One ultrawide 29 inch monitor
<knightwise> I could not handle multi monitor setups .. too distracting
<awilkins> I have one of those ludicrous gamer workstations made of steel tubing
<awilkins> With a 3-monitor mount
<mapp>  i have 4 monitors at work:_
<foobarry> anyone else tried the open suorce android twitter client called twidere? really nice
<foobarry> no ads or sponsored crap
<foobarry> great features
<diplo> Oooh I was going to ask what people used for twitter on android later
 * diplo installs
<popey> well that'll get shutdown then
<popey> if it doesn't show adverts
<mapp> got a job interview in 2 weeks
<mapp> havent had a job interview for 9 years;p
<directhex> nowadays you need to wear your hippest t-shirt for interviews
<mapp> il wear a suit;p
<nucc1> i think it depends on the role
<mapp> Trading
<nucc1> yes, generally suit is a the safest bet.
<popey> heh, I haven't had an interview for years either
<directhex> i wasn't interviewed for this job, they just gave me the job
<popey> \o/
<mapp> trading department at ladbrokes
<popey> It's the modern way.
<directhex> my previous job, the interview was via irc, so i did it in my pants
<mapp> worked at 365 in trading for 9 years
<mapp> id say  25% i take it really
<mapp> il be wanting Â£50k+
<nucc1> mapp, will that be sales?
<mapp> nah
<mapp> sports trading
<nucc1> still sounds like greek to me
<mapp> setting odds live during the game
<nucc1> oh, maths
<mapp> next goal etc
<nucc1> heh!
<awilkins> foobarry, By no ads (twidere) does that mean no promoted tweets or just no spammy adbar?
<mapp> i work for 365 atm and work nights
<foobarry> awilkins: no nothing
<popey> sweepstake on when twidere gets shutdown then...
<foobarry> i'd accept sponsored tweets
<mapp> and i make a good enouh wage
<foobarry> plume doesn't show sponsored tweets
<foobarry> twidere also has multiple accotn support in same way as plume
<foobarry> but everything abnout it is nicer
<diplo> Seems nice foobarry, just installed and setup
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Monday, and happy Upsy Daisy Day! ð
<zmoylan-pi> faceplant day never took off :-(
<JamesTait> zmoylan-pi, we could totally start that though!
 * zmoylan-pi ties a few trip wires and sets up the cameras...
<bujji> how to print percentage of disk usage..?
<zmoylan-pi> df -h
<popey> df -h /mountpoint
<bujji> i want only percent like 80%
<bujji> of that mount point.
<popey> df -h /home | tail -1 | awk '{print $5}'
<popey> alan@deep-thought:/tmp/WeekViewHighlightâ« df -h /home | tail -1 | awk '{print $5}'
<popey> 79%
<bigcalm> Having a problem with apt. How do I install a new package while apt-get is complaining about updating packages? http://paste.ubuntu.com/11646464/
<bujji> popey:got it.
<popey> bujji: do what it says?
<popey> oops not bujji
<popey> bigcalm: apt-get -f install
<bigcalm> Oh, okay...
<TwistedLucidity> bigcalm: I find that aptitude is a great program for detangling mess like that. When you run it, it will offer various potential fixes or you can just find the errant packages and slap them around yourself.
<bujji> -f for forcefully ?
<bigcalm> bujji: yes, but popey was actually tell me that. You don't need to use -f for anything right now :)
<bujji> okey
<TwistedLucidity> bujji, bigcalm: "-f" means "fix broken"
<bigcalm> Oh
<bigcalm> That's a little nicer then
<bujji> oh got it
<TwistedLucidity> Probably going to go with the first option "aptitude" would provide
<bujji> how default permissions applied for sym link files..??
<bujji> o/
<bujji> hey any one ??
<TwistedLucidity> bujji: This help? http://superuser.com/questions/303040/how-do-file-permissions-apply-to-symlinks
 * TwistedLucidity is no expert and that was the first hit
<bujji> TwistedLucidity:when you create a file default permissions will be applied right based on umask..in the same way when you apply symlink how default permissions will be applied for that.
<bujji> popey:do you have any idea?
<popey> nope
<bujji> when we create a file default permissions will be applied right based on umask..in the same way when we apply symlink how default 777 permissions will be applied for that.
<intrbiz> bujji: symbolic links are always 0777, that can't be changed
<bujji> intrbiz:i tried to change permissions but it wasn't changed.
<intrbiz> bujji: you cannot change permissions of the symlink itself, if you chmod a symlink it'll change permissions on the target file
<bujji> intrbiz:yes its effected to target file.
<bujji> intrbiz:i want to know how default permissions are always 0777 for sym link
<intrbiz> bujji: symlinks have no permissions, they are 0777, that is hard coded
<bujji> intrbiz:how can i find that one..??
<intrbiz> bujji: find what?
<davmor2> bujji: you can't change it, it is built in
<bujji> intrbiz:you said hard coded right
<intrbiz> bujji: read the man page symlink (7)
<bujji> davmore2:i can view right??
<intrbiz> bujji: can view what?
<davmor2> bujji: http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/utopic/man7/symlink.7.html
<bujji> intrbiz:the hard code one..
<intrbiz> bujji: it'll be in the kernel somewhere, probably FS specific
<intrbiz> bujji: this is seeming an x-y problem, why are you asking about symlink permissions?
<bujji> intrbiz:i want to know that..:))
<intrbiz> bujji: well, a symlink isn't a real file, its merely a pointer to a file, as such it doesn't have all the same properties of a file, specifically it lacks permissions
<bujji> intrbiz:but if we alter in sym link file,the original file can also be altered right.
<davmor2> bujji: no
<davmor2> bujji: you want a hardlink not a softlink
<intrbiz> bujji: if you alter the permission of the symlink it will alter the permissions of the target file
<bujji> davmor2:both i have tried...
<intrbiz> bujji: what are you trying to acheive?
<bujji> intrbiz:umask dont do any thing here for sym link...
<davmor2> bujji: start at the beginning what are you trying to do and why?
<intrbiz> bujji: as I've said repeatedly symlinks do not have permissions, so of course umaks has nothing to do with symlinks
<intrbiz> bujji: as davmor2 says, start from the begining, what are you trying to do?
<bujji> davmor2:if we alter in sym link file,the original file can also be altered..you said no...but its altering.
<davmor2> bujji: that is not starting at the beginning.  What is the symlink why are you trying to change it's permissions
<bujji> hen we create a file default permissions will be applied right based on umask..in the same way i want to know when we apply symlink how default 777 permissions will be applied for that.
<bujji> when*
<intrbiz> bujji: as an example: http://paste.ubuntu.com/11647413/
<intrbiz> bujji: as I keep saying, you cannot apply default permissions to a symlink, because a symlink does not have any permissions
<intrbiz> bujji: why are you symlinking to this file?
<bujji> intrbiz:you said default permissions already hard coded...ie.777
<intrbiz> bujji: no, I said that the permissions are hard coded, not the default permissions
<bujji> http://superuser.com/questions/303040/how-do-file-permissions-apply-to-symlinks in this one i found mac sym links can be changed.
<intrbiz> bujji: mac != Linux
<davmor2> bujji: mac is not linux, different kernel completely
<intrbiz> bujji: quoting the manpage linked to you: "
<intrbiz> On  Linux,  the  permissions  of  a  symbolic  link are not used in any
<intrbiz>        operations; the permissions are always 0777 (read, write,  and  execute
<intrbiz>        for all user categories), and can't be changed.
<intrbiz> "
<bujji> intrbiz:i know )))
<bujji> intbiz:why this is hard coded as 777..
<intrbiz> bujji: well no matter how many time you ask the question the answer will be the same
<bujji> oh man
<davmor2> bujji: there is a nice thread here http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/linux-general-1/why-chmod-cannot-change-symbolic-link-permission-102012/
<shauno> (osx is weirder than that.  it lets you change link permissions but still doesn't obey them)
<davmor2> bujji: there is also the man page here http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/utopic/man7/symlink.7.html   both explain what is going on
<intrbiz> bujji: but *why* do you want to set the permissions of a symlink?
<bujji> intrbiz:i tried to change permissions for that file..its not changing its effecting the targetted file..but if i alter the file content targeted file also altering ..so i started knowing why its not changing and then wanted to know how 777 permissions applied for that.
<bujji> intrbiz:i tried to change permissions for that file..its not changing its effecting the targetted file..but if i alter the file content targeted file also altering ..so i started knowing why its not changing and then wanted to know how 777 permissions applied for that.
<bujji> intrbiz:o/
<bigcalm> 15 weeks to the RAT \o/
 * zmoylan-pi speculates that bigcalm may need an intervention if they're counting the weeks... :-)
<bujji> O_O
<bigcalm> I can do it in days...
<MooDoo> RAT RAT RAT
<intrbiz> choo choo
 * popey looks at his RAT ticket
<popey> .oO( still there )
<bigcalm> Phew
<bigcalm> Erm. Why has the NIC for a server in the office now showing em1 rather than eth1?
<bigcalm> What is em?
<popey> new stuff innit
<popey> did you upgrade it?
<bigcalm> I did
<bigcalm> Just now
<popey> neato
<popey> to what?
<bigcalm> Um, update && dist-upgrade
<bigcalm> It's on 14.04
<popey> oh
<zmoylan-pi> new stuff?? down with this sort of thing!!
<popey> interesting
<popey> pitchforks at dawn
<bigcalm> 14.04.2
<popey> what kernel?
<bigcalm> 3.16.0-38-generic
<bigcalm> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2150517 possibly related, talks about 13.04 though
<bujji> bye all :))
<bigcalm> toodle pip
<popey> pip pip
<intrbiz> bigcalm: em1 is probably the new 'persistent' nic names in systemd-udev
<DJones> bigcalm: Just saw this asked in #u  "what is this nonsense with the emX interfaces? "
<bigcalm> Okay
<intrbiz> the old eth0 naming seems to be going away and the new conventions do make some sense, however odd they look at first
<intrbiz> i have names such as: enp3s0, enp6s0, ens3f0, ens3f1, enp38s0f0, enp38s0f1, enp39s0f0, enp39s0f1 in my server
<davmor2> tally-ho
<knightwise> Toppodamornintoya davmor2
<davmor2> knightwise: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15qc3_joy5A
<knightwise> davmor2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXiJcFVds0E
<daftykins> bigcalm: just a thought but it'd be wiser to keep an office server on 3.13 since the 3.16 is part of the utopic HWE which will go EOL soon enough
<bigcalm> daftykins: It's 14.04 LTS, I just did update && dist-upgrade
<bigcalm> Surely Ubuntu peeps will keep things working?
<daftykins> yeah but if you're on a 3.16 kernel, that kernel isn't LTS
<bigcalm> I didn't specify the kernel
<daftykins> at least that's the understanding i get with 14.04.2
<daftykins> no you just get what you get depending on your install media
<daftykins> my 14.04 box here is on 3.13.0-53-generic
<TheGeek_> afternoon
<bigcalm> Downloaded the 64bit 14.04 server iso onto a usb stick and used that
<daftykins> yeah but only 14.04.2 ISOs seem to exist now, which come with the utopic HWE as default
<daftykins> thus will expire and require reworking soon enough
<bigcalm> So won't a future update && dist-upgrade sort this out for me?
<daftykins> nope
<daftykins> or at least not unless they fixed it
<bigcalm> Does't seem right that I'm in this situation then
<daftykins> i kept a 14.04.1 ISO around for this reason, so i could install with a 3.13 kernel and just dist-upgrade to become 14.04.2 but not bring in the HWE
<ne2k> I think that if you use netinstall, you will get 3.13 too
<bigcalm> Do I blame popey or davmor2?
<ne2k> you can get the old ISOs from here http://old-releases.ubuntu.com/releases/trusty/
<ne2k> daftykins, ^^^
<bigcalm> I'm not about to reinstall the server
<popey> i dont see a problem
<popey> keep updating, you'll get the newer kernel when that comes
<daftykins> you had to manually intervene when 12.04 HWE's went EOL.
<daftykins> we got flooded with people in #ubuntu who had the expiry messages and didn't know how to update, because dist-upgrade wasn't doing it iirc
<davmor2> bigcalm: are you on a strict 14.04 or 14.04 HWE
<daftykins> sounded like a clean 14.04.2
<daftykins> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel/LTSEnablementStack#Kernel.2BAC8-Support.Ubuntu_Kernel_Release_Schedule
<daftykins> so end of July when 14.10 goes EOL, that kernel will too
<daftykins> if it's being claimed that keeing up to date when that happens is fine, then maybe it'll be less of a big deal... but i personally don't think servers should be even vaguely near that level of hassle
<popey> july 2016
<popey> ... and there will be an update in august 2015...
<daftykins> oops i hadn't scrolled down
<bigcalm> I'll do-release-upgrade when 16.04.1 is released
<daftykins> wow what a mess
<popey> I think you're confusing the lifetime of 14.10 and the lifetime of the HWE kernel _from_ 14.10 in 14.04
<bigcalm> I've surprised myself by running 15.04 on my home workstation as I have a habit of only running LTS releases on work related hardware
<davmor2> bigcalm: hitting many issues?
<bigcalm> davmor2: not noticed any yet
<davmor2> \o/
<daftykins> popey: sort of, i was under the impression the kernel HWE in LTS went EOL when that release went EOL
<popey> ah, no.
<daftykins> i still personally avoid these in general
<daftykins> because if you're on a server that doesn't need any modern hardware support a newer kernel would provide, it seems easier to just stay on 3.13 for the releases' whole life
<bigcalm> davmor2: tell a lie. I hit a problem with trying to use nvidia drivers. The fix was to disable the intel driver
<bigcalm> Going to do that at work and see if I can get rid of xorg-edgers
<davmor2> bigcalm: you on optimus?
<davmor2> bigcalm: if so then just install nvidia-prime too
<shauno> daftykins: I thought that was the plan?  if the LTS kernel works for you, you stay on the LTS track.  if you need the HWE kernel, you opt-in to a slightly faster track
<popey> I'd take newer kernels for btrfs alone
<bigcalm> davmor2: doubt it. I'd only use that for a laptop which has one display. The two work stations will always use the nvidia driver and not need to switch to intel
<daftykins> shauno: well lets say you wanted to install 14.04 today, you go to grab a conventional ISO - but the mirrors only have 14.04.2 which throws on 3.16 as default =|
<popey> which makes sense if you have a new server
<awilkins> THE SAGA OF MARKETING BULLSHITTERY CONTINUES
<awilkins> Oops
<daftykins> D:
<awilkins> Sorry
<awilkins> Apologies for network-inappropriate swear level
<awilkins> Wong channel
<davmor2> bigcalm: the intel one it the one built in then I guess if this is desktop?  in which case did you change to bios/uefi to not use the built-in gfx then the intel driver would not be used
<daftykins> awilkins: well now you have my attention i want to know what it's about :D
<davmor2> s/one it/one is
<awilkins> Just that phenomenon where marketing types "specify" what they want with the most nebulous language imaginable until you just cave in and go "Oh, ok"
<bigcalm> davmor2: it might be an option, but disabling the drive also works
<awilkins> And when they reject what you've produced, they use the exact same nebulous language but in a slightly different order to state what they "really wanted"
<bigcalm> davmor2: I dual boot my home workstation with windows. And that doesn't have the issue with the intel gfx. So no real need to disable it in ufei
<daftykins> ooh-err!
<bigcalm> uefi
<awilkins> And now they're telling us to check with them about how stuff works (when we know full well how it works in about a bazillion times more detail)
 * awilkins finds all this very stressful
<davmor2> awilkins: welcome to the real world ;)
<awilkins> Oh, have been there, done it
<shauno> daftykins: hm, I didn't realise that.  so assuming I have to d/l fresh, I can't not opt-in to HWE until 2016 now?
<awilkins> At least when you work for a .gov.uk you don't have to cope with marketing
<daftykins> shauno: ne2k pointed out net installs work apparently, plus i didn't know about the older ISOs living on the old-releases page. but yeah, you'd have to install 3.13 then purge 3.16 to get rid (not sure if it requires more work than that on a server)
<daftykins> shauno: i think i seem a bit of a nut to some, but i'd rather just stick to 100% LTS if i'm gonna run it :)
<davmor2> awilkins: no then you have the public and managers and local government and national government and designers to worry about ;)
<daftykins> it's fruity tech's (Apple) WWDC event today, only mac users may watch live - http://www.apple.com/live/
<daftykins> not a fan myself, but always good to know thy enemy
<zmoylan-pi> nobody on twitter periscoping/meerkating the occasion?
<daftykins> haha
<daftykins> i find it amazing what sites spring up offering services like that which you didn't think were needed
<zmoylan-pi> it does seem a little sad alright
<zmoylan-pi> i noticed firefox added a periscope option to my toolbar for somereason
<daftykins> then again the likes of imgur are teaching the kids of today that text is best stored as images
<daftykins> :>
<daftykins> firefox did 0o
 * awilkins had to look "periscope" up
 * awilkins goes to periscope his fridge like all the cool kids are doing
<daftykins> :D
<zmoylan-pi> i think it's an extension i added to firefox.  just the icon on toolbar changed and when i click on it it now has a periscope option
<zmoylan-pi> there was some feathers ruffled over addition of pocket+ to firefox
<shauno> woot, new mac at the postoffice to collect.  toys <3
<zmoylan-pi> somebody really likes their raincoats...
<shauno> if you lived in galway, you would too ;)
<zmoylan-pi> i live in dublin so i know a significant % of your love :-)
<shauno> I have an excuse for this one though.  I want to play with some PPC stuff, so this one actually is the cheapest ticket
<daftykins> ugh PPC :P
<popey> \o/ PPC
<popey> Quite fancy an old MacBook
<shauno> this is a 10yo mini.  cheap enough to be silly with, and small enough that I might still have some desk left
<knightwise> I love teh ppc distro's
<knightwise> having one of those old G4 Powerbooks (17 inch) and run linux on it :) Megacool
<shauno> I want to try running amigaos4 :)
<knightwise> popey: what do you think of the Thinkpad x220 'tablet' worth it to play with Ubuntu or ...
<popey> I dont have one
<popey> I have a non-tablet x220
<knightwise> pleased with it (despite the moderate resolution ? )
<popey> hmm
<popey> well it's over 3 years old now
<popey> so yeah, the resolution is annoying.
<knightwise> its your basic netbook resolution
<popey> i like that I can put 16GB RAM and 2 SSDs in it, which will extend the life
<popey> yeah
<popey> I use mine attached to a 1080p monitor all day
<popey> rarely use it without a monitor, usually only when travelling
<knightwise> that is also a viable alternative.
<popey> I'm still looking around at laptops
 * knightwise has a 23 inch apple display sitting around doing nothing.
<popey> Timo posted about his Dell XPS13 experience today
<knightwise> popey: i ordered my dell xps13 yesterday.
<popey> Sad that it's got broken bits
<knightwise> popey: link ?
<popey> http://losca.blogspot.co.uk/2015/06/quick-look-dell-xps-13-developer.html
<popey> (he works for canonical)
<knightwise> aaah awesome post !
<knightwise> Bookmarked.
<knightwise> my xps should arrive in a couple of weeks
<knightwise> I'm thinking of backing up the orignal image and going with elementary
<popey> he's mirv on irc if you have specific questions for him
<popey> outrage
<knightwise> Thanx popey , you're a lifesaver.
<popey> you getting the touch one or not?
<daftykins> wonder how good ubuntu will do on Windows' 15hr battery life on that FHD model XPS 13
<knightwise> no .. just the "plain" HD one. Laney was getting the full HD one
<knightwise> it was about 400 euro difference for some more diskspace, touch and the qhd
<knightwise> brb
<popey> ..and touch
<knightwise> yep .. but touch was pretty pointless in Ubuntu
<popey> I'm specifically looking for touch machines
<knightwise> and the extra storage .. i hardly store things locally.
<knightwise> hmm. then the xps is not a bad way to go
<knightwise> its small and damn sexy
<knightwise> love the fact that it has the aize of a mba 11 and the sreen of a 13"
<daftykins> i would still prefer they kept built in ethernet in
<knightwise> usb2ethernet dongle is like 5 euro
<daftykins> unacceptable for me
<knightwise> progress...
<daftykins> no it's really not :)
<knightwise> im happy it still has ports (see nacbooks)
<daftykins> well, i think those things are a niche for the more-money-than-sense / fashion crowd
<daftykins> Core M performs pretty terribly too
<knightwise> i have a 1000 euro apple watch on my desk for review
<knightwise> waste of money
<daftykins> haha
<daftykins> i got informed i must setup a second fitbit for someone before they take their boat off to Paris for the Royal Yacht Squadron meet later this week
<daftykins> silly toys :>
<shauno> fitbit and boats turned out to be a bad combination, based on a single anecdote
<knightwise> true. 300 euro for the watch.. ok
<knightwise> 700 euro for the strap ??? nopenopenope
<daftykins> shauno: yeah he drowned the wifes phone last boat trip they had
<daftykins> so we'll see which gadgets survive this jaunt :>
<shauno> we more found that it simply didn't pick stuff up
<knightwise> lol
<shauno> like it's looking for the kinda movement you get from stride/gait, running, cycling, etc
<shauno> and mostly missed out of stuff that was entirely upper-body (like hauling ropes)
<daftykins> oh as in under way it'll start to spazz out?
<shauno> nah, just no useful data
<daftykins> i suspect it'll be going for some body stats logging and as a conversation piece
<shauno> how many steps it took you to haul an anchor is not a good measure of effort done
<knightwise> ttyl off tp the nana
<bigcalm> toilet paper?
<shauno> don't tp your nana :(  nanas are awesome
<daftykins> lol
<daftykins> mines 93 and had a nasty fall the other day
<daftykins> broke her arm beside the bed and didn't get found until two days later
<daftykins> zmoylan-pi: you called it, one of the folk from theverge.com is apparently going to hoist up their periscope ;)
<daftykins> ugh i felt wrong even typing that
<shauno> I'm still not sure what that means
<daftykins> from what i understand, periscope is like twitter but you can quickly fire up a live feed broadcasting what you're doing to the world
<daftykins> or something
<Laney> popey: knightwise: I've been seeing http://en.community.dell.com/techcenter/os-applications/f/4613/t/19632979 too
<shauno> although I did read an article the other day that defined generation-Y / millenial as 18-33.  so apparently I'm still young and hip.
<daftykins> oh dear
<daftykins> i was definitely quite confused at this millennial concept, i thought it meant someone born after 2000
<shauno> wiki says there's no agreed definition, but uses 1982 repeatedly.  so I assume they mean someone who turned 18 after the millenium?
<shauno> by which measure I missed it by a single day
<daftykins> oooh so close :)
<shauno> I turned 18 on dec 31st 1999.  which felt pretty millenial at the time.  (well, it felt a lot like alcohol poisoning at the time, but ..)
<zmoylan-pi> daftykins: it's the hip new thing that kids are doing these days...
<daftykins> just who exactly has these kids :D
<shauno> I thought perriscope launched at SXSW?  that's not kids, that's ... those people who thing lumberjack beards are "ironic"
<daftykins> or is it just tech news sites perpetuating these ideas :)
<shauno> I think there's an awkward crossover between 'tech news' sites and venture capital.  which seems to lead to some very artificial "explosions" because the press is self-serving
<funkyHat> xps 13" has no 16GB option â¢(
<popey> yeah :(
<intrbiz> funkyHat: knowing how big the logic board is in the xps 13, it would be hard to get the chips on
<popey> still, it's a step back for those of us on 16GB machines :(
<intrbiz> popey: what machine?
<funkyHat> Also absolutely no mention of how many cores the processor has, so I'm guessing it's dual-core only, not quad
<popey> my thinkpad
<intrbiz> funkyHat: the 2013 model show as 4 cpus, but it's dual core + HT
<shauno> that always seems like a shame.  soldered ram would actually allow them to offer 32 as an option, and make it look like there's a genuine advantage to soldering the chips
<funkyHat> I'll probably replace my MBP with the latest MBP. If the XPS had 16GB and a quad core option I'd be seriously tempted to switch... that screen OMG
<popey> can't see myself buying another mac any time soon
<popey> the imac was good for a family computer in the kitchen but getting old now
<popey> also, i upgraded the hard disk and now the fans spin _constantly_
<popey> wish that was fixable
<funkyHat> Also as I haven't *quite* finished uni yet I can still get the apple education discount. Dell don't seem to offer anything like that on the XPS, so it's not even that much cheaper for me
<intrbiz> alright for some
<funkyHat> But I will be sad about only having crappy retina instead of QHD
<shauno> I really want a new one, but can't bring myself to do it.  I really wish they still had a current model of what I have
<daftykins> popey: it is, you got an SSD in there now?
<daftykins> the one i modded, i got a little software program to stop the fans ramping up to max
<shauno> you can just short the two spare pins on the cable too, if it's the 2011 ones
<daftykins> i read that too, but went with a clever real temperature detecting one that still ramps up as needed
<shauno> (this is of course a bad thing if the hdd does turn out to be your primary heat source  heh)
<daftykins> :D
<shauno> if you leave them open it constantly thinks they're hot.  if you short them it constantly thinks it's cold.  if you find a dead one you can steal the heat sensor from the optical drive and fix it properly
<daftykins> http://exirion.net/ssdfanctrl/
<shauno> (assuming it's 2011.  if it's 08-09 it's a different issue, and you broked it  heh_
<popey> daftykins: no, large spinning rust
<popey> shauno: got a link to this?
<popey> detailing how to do that
<shauno> hm, good question
<daftykins> the above will still work
<shauno> http://forum.hardmac.com/index.php?showtopic=10302
<shauno> (this I haven't actually tried, I've just sat in mac-based channels long enough to acquire cruft by osmosis)
<daftykins> Apple really do do somet things for no good reason :P
<shauno> I still haven't popped my "rip the glass off an imac" cherry yet  lol
<daftykins> :D
<shauno> I dunno, that one does seem sort of logical.  taping temperature sensors to the outside of the drive (eg imac 06-08) compared to using the sensors the drives provide
<daftykins> one i did for a client was a 2010 model so no glue thankfully, just magnets
<daftykins> i bought a suction cup off ebay :D
<daftykins> making it proprietary and then requiring custom firmware though :(
<shauno> it just sucks that there's no standard way to do this.  they didn't even have the same connectors for different brands
<shauno> perhaps it might have actually matured if it didn't turn out to be 1-2 years before SSDs took off
<daftykins> right time to operate on my mouse
<daftykins> scroll wheels that send you both up and down in equal measure are no friend of mine!
<shauno> I've got one I'm still trying to get working, the internet keeps telling me this exact combination works fine, but .. nope
<funkyHat> HP MicroServer Gen8 processor doesn't do VT-d â¢( cashback is back on though finally
<daftykins> that's kind of a given
<daftykins> is it even a CPU feature? or just BIOS locking it out?
<funkyHat> Intel ARK says that CPU doesn't support it http://ark.intel.com/products/71074/Intel-Celeron-Processor-G1610T-2M-Cache-2_30-GHz
<funkyHat> It does have VT-x, so it's not all bad. VT-d would be nice though. It's possible to replace the processor but then that's kind of missing the point of it being a *cheap* home server
<shauno> I don't remember what the difference between vt-d and vt-x is  lol
<daftykins> indeed
<daftykins> VT-d is virt I/O
<funkyHat> VT-x is hardware virt, VT-d is IO
<shauno> ah
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/0qu0i4adn6m31r1/AAAuf_wv7kzXgYslsv9u3U9Qa?dl=0
<daftykins> blech there's a culprit and a half
<shauno> daftykins: I recommend fire.
<daftykins> :D
<bujji> h.w O_O
<daftykins> bujji: huh?
<bujji> hard ware ))
<daftykins> i thought you meant that
<daftykins> yeah, hardware is where i normally live
<daftykins> not so much into the software side ^_^
<bujji> you probably master in it..?  ))
<bujji> daftykins:so what all things you do in h.w
<daftykins> not really, i don't do any electronics really
<bujji> okey.
<daftykins> just happy to take systems apart and fix them up on the component level
<bujji> if anything fails you can identify right.
<daftykins> usually yep
<bujji> major differences between linux and unix?
<shauno> my wallet.
<bujji> shauno: :))
<shauno> unix isn't actually "a thing" anymore.  and hasn't been for a long time.  it's not something you actually use
<shauno> it's grown into a standard that other OS try to adhere to, more or less
<bujji> okey.
<shauno> linux tries, but doesn't try too hard.  since no-one will pay for certification, and they're big enough to survive without it, there's less to be gained
<bujji> less to be gained??
<shauno> well, with most things you look at cost vs benefit
<shauno> some things aren't always "worth it"
<shauno> these days, adhering too strictly to unix is one of them
<bujji> what about solaris??
<shauno> I'm not so familiar with solaris, but I think they're a certified unix
<awilkins> It needs to be destroyed with a high energy particle accelerator
<bujji> i am fascinated using linux..i  want to learn new things..
<bujji> minix??
<davmor2> bujji: if you want to learn about linux read the linux from scratch manual. and maybe have a go at installing it in vm.
<bujji> davmor2:i installed vm and using it.
<davmor2> bujji: I mean installing linux from scratch in a vm
<davmor2> bujji: it gives you all the basic blocks you need to get a system up and running
<bujji> davmore2:can you more aloborate..
<davmor2> bujji: http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/
<bujji> davmore2:I got this one but i dont  know where to start..
<bujji> davmore2:this is very interesting..
<intrbiz> to my mind, Linux is inspired by Unix, when we talk about nixes today we probably really mean Posix compatible
<bujji> linux kernal is diff right intrbiz..
<daftykins> *kernel
<daftykins> :>
<intrbiz> bujji: Well, strictly, Linux is just the kernel
<intrbiz> bujji: the Linux kernel design differs significantly from Solaris, yet they both expose APIs to userspace which are very similar
<bujji> okey..
<bujji> now linux is becoming so popular..
<intrbiz> bujji: if you want to know more about the kernel itself, this book is good: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Linux-Kernel-Development-Novell-Press/dp/0672327201/ref=asap_bc?ie=UTF8
<bujji> intrbiz:can i get pdf of this one
<intrbiz> bujji: i think they sell an ebook
<bujji> okey
<bujji> intrbiz:http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/lfs/view/stable/ is this okey
<bujji> intrbiz:i bookmark that one novell
<bujji> davmor2:can you give me more info for shell script.
<davmor2> bujji: just ask rather than asking one person if anyone can help they will
<bujji> okey got it.
<daftykins> like i said recently...
<bujji> can any one give me more info for shell script.
<daftykins> yes join #bash
<awilkins> shell scripting : http://www.tldp.org/LDP/abs/html/
<awilkins> My go-to reference when confounded
<bujji> awilkins :good one
<shauno> well, there's an odd one.  apple announced linux software
<daftykins> open sauce at that!
<shauno> not sure I actually see it being useful, but unexpected regardless
<bujji> shauno:O_O
<bujji> ubuntu mobile os is released or going to release??
<daftykins> i think #ubuntu-touch is the place for that?
<bujji> it has rleased ha
<diddledan> swift surely is only useful when it comes with the ios or osx libraries, no?
<diddledan> it's like objective-c without the apple nsThgiews
<diddledan> thingies**
<diddledan> I wonder if they'll go as far as doing an android version
<shauno> pretty much
<shauno> ObjC has an awkward life on linux for openstep.  swift won't even have that
<diddledan> the answer, daftykins, to questions such as ujjain's is "yes" rather than an x or y or even a pointer to somewhere else. you should attempt to make the questioner more confused than they started
<shauno> I actually wasn't sure of the answer to that one.  I wasn't sure whether you'd call it released, or beta, or .. what
<diddledan> shauno: "yes"
<shauno> right, but at the time, and not knowing the answer, I'd have either "shut up I don't know" or "deferr to someone who does"
<daftykins> diddledan: x or y? if i don't know the answer i don't see the harm in suggesting where it can be found
<diddledan> daftykins: but. but. opaqueness!
<daftykins> i don't fully understand what you said, sir
<diddledan> we should be as opaque as possible! :-p
<daftykins> 'we' ?
<diddledan> everyone who isn't asking the question
<mapps> what series to pickup
<mapps> hmms
<shauno> ooh, that reminds me, I still have sunday's TV to catch up.  HCF and that dragon thing
<shauno> diddledan: https://developer.apple.com/osx/download/
<shauno> ;)
<diddledan> dragon thing?
<shauno> GoT
<daftykins> http://cowboyjob.com/member/daftykins
<diddledan> aah#
<daftykins> what on earth is this website O_O
<diddledan> daftykins: no idea, but they claim "Most Active Forum in the World for Geeks!"
<diddledan> seems they're scaping irc
<diddledan> scraping**
<daftykins> indeed
<daftykins> and channels that aren't claimed to be publically logged too
<diddledan> and also seems to have stopped scraping on may 19th
<diddledan> maybe freenode banned them
<shauno> I can't see any rhyme or rhythm to what they've kept either
<shauno> or why my icon is Patrick :(
<daftykins> huzzah my mouse operation was a success!
<shauno> win!
<daftykins> back working perfectly again
<shauno> hm, you're not going to be able to download 10.11 on walesnets are you
<daftykins> depends how many black+white sheep he's lined up
<daftykins> and whether zmoylan-pi has written the RFC yet :)
<shauno> I'm not sure I want to know how many sheep he has lined up o_O  I thought this was a family holiday?
<daftykins> precisely why, i suspect
<shauno> I just realised, perhaps 20 seconds too late, that I probably should have made a backup first
<daftykins> uh-oh
<daftykins> don't you have a glorious TM device?
<shauno> I'm actually not sure if it's enabled
<shauno> It's so fire-and-forget, that I forgot
<diddledan> whales moaningnet
<daftykins> a friends dad had a nasty surprise once where TM was claiming it was doing it, but actually wasn't
<daftykins> the best lesson he taught me was to boot OS X recovery first and check the TM device had a recent date on it
<diddledan> it'll have to wait till the weekendings
<shauno> Well, if it's not using MicrosoftMinutesâ¢, I'll find out in 25 minutes
<daftykins> Windows Time!
<daftykins> :D
<mapps> jus started american oddysey
<shauno> hm. Micro machines on the Amiga has some pretty weird control schemes
<zmoylan-pi> logically you only need 2 sheep 1 black and 1 white for it to work but then the transfer rate is terrible.  the more sheep the better
<shauno> Have we done any environmental studies on EweDP yet?
<zmoylan-pi> wales and new zealand persist...
<shauno> lol ..
<shauno> diddledan: don't do 10.11
<shauno> they have sandboxed *everything*
<daftykins> D:
<daftykins> so much... sand...
<shauno> 08/06/2015 22:58:34.164 sudo[2101]:   soneil : TTY=ttys001 ; PWD=/Users/soneil ; USER=root ; COMMAND=/bin/mkdir /usr/local
<shauno> 08/06/2015 22:58:34.000 kernel[0]: Sandbox: mkdir(2102) System Policy: deny(1) file-write-create /usr/local
<diddledan> eh?
<shauno> I'm not allowed to create /usr/local
<diddledan> why would they do that?!
<shauno> as me, as root, with sudo, without, whatever.
<diddledan> root can't mkdir seems a bit of a bug
<shauno> oh it's not just mkdir.  it's now the default policy
<diddledan> still a bug
<daftykins> XD
<shauno> argh
<shauno> I've found the sandbox definition, but I can't find anything that has permission to edit it
<diddledan> that's worrying
<shauno> So you're allowed to write to /opt and /use/local
<shauno> But if you remove usr/local you can't recreate it lol
<diddledan> err.
<diddledan> does fix permissions sort it?
<shauno> This is fixed. It's a feature
<diddledan> i.e. recreate it if missing
<shauno> Hang on, I'll share what I've found when tits booted again. Stuck on my iPad at the moment
<shauno> Re-running the installer :(
<shauno> But this is .. Not impressed. The whole selling point was having a real Unix with a proper desktop
<shauno> Sand boxing AppStore junk I can understand, but sand boxing me on my own bloody machine ?
<diddledan> apple ftw?
<zmoylan-pi> apple knows best
<daftykins> think different.
<zmoylan-pi> just because you're writing an app on a system you bought and paid for to deploy to a device you bought and paid for there's no reason you wouldn't double cross yourself :-P
<shauno> I really hope this doesn't make it to release
<shauno> Otherwise there's really no desktop OS left
<daftykins> that sounds dangerously like you were claiming OS X to be the best!
<shauno> I would easily call it the least worst
<daftykins> heh, can't stand the window management myself
<daftykins> seems they worked on that at last though!
<zmoylan-pi> saying that in a linux channel.... brave... ;-)
 * daftykins is typing from Windows 8D
<shauno> Heh, I don't consider Linux a desktop OS. And as far as I can tell, neither do the gnome devs
<shauno> I mean, everything I have it installed on, I can't imagine running anything else on. But a laptop really does seem to gather all its weaknesses in one place
<daftykins> true, that
<zmoylan-pi> i couldn't abide running any other os on a laptop
<shauno> Windows seems to work fine once you've put a good 15-20 years into developing Stockholm syndrome
<daftykins> :D
<zmoylan-pi> when i did use windows i used cygwin and unixtools to add more useable software.  and used mostly open source software on top of it that is available for linux
<shauno> I just find it way too foreign
<shauno> That's pretty much it. Just foreign. It's way too far removed from anything else I've used.
<shauno> You may as well dump me in Russia and tell me to figure out how to file taxes there
<zmoylan-pi> i think you just give money till the nice policeman stops hitting you :-P
<shauno> so, reinstalling did recreate /usr/local.  I just have to remember to move the contents, not the folder itself
<diddledan> file a bug report
#ubuntu-uk 2015-06-09
<bujji> i am not able to create a file using special character touch *.txt ..??
<bujji> and also same way "touch `.txt" but "touch ``.txt"--->its creating hidden file.
<bujji> O/
<mapps> 1 more e then bed
<mapps> ep
<mapps> american oddyssey seems good
<bujji> hey any one.
<mapps> hi
<mapps> touch file.txt doesnt work?
<bujji> i can able to create a directory/file with * in empty directory.but if any files are there its not creating a file with * like "touch *" but its exit status is "0" when i type "echo $?"  ..??
<bujji> any idea?
<bujji> okey bye )))
<MooDoo> morning
<bashrc_> morning
<MooDoo> morning bashrc_
<diplo> Morning all
<davmor2> Morning all
<MooDoo> morning davmor2 davmor2
<MooDoo> morning davmor2 diplo
<davmor2> MooDoo: dude I know you missed me but you don't have to make up greeting honest ;)
<diplo> heheheh, more MooDoo :)
<diplo> oh my, typos here too, morning*
<MooDoo> lol
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<MooDoo> morning
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo
<TheGeek> mornin
<ujjain> uh, remind me to drink less
<ujjain> morning
<TheGeek> Hmmmm, I've been at work for an hour and a half and no ones came to the office (including colleagues) and I haven't received an email since 8am...
<TheGeek> strange
<diplo> ujjain: On a Monday night ( school night! ) oh dear
<davmor2> ujjain: drink more....water
<ujjain> I had to 500ml,
<ujjain> I was in Mallorca yesterday, not working, traveling home
<ujjain> still free alcohol, I spent 220 pounds on a 4 day all-inclusive
<ujjain> but i regret the last drinks
<foobarry> everyone always regrets the last drinks
<diplo> I've had 2 stag do's and 2 weddings in the last month, I regreat ALL the alcohol, but it HAD to be done :)
<foobarry> i had my half-pint of beer for the year last week
<foobarry> wasn't actually the best one i could have chosen either
<davmor2> diplo: I see what you did there, you mispronounce "but I had to be pickled"
<diplo> I don't really drink that much normally, but I won't let the side down when called to action :D
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Cars Day! ð
<davmor2> JamesTait: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rV1_7R_3cXA
<JamesTait> Oh you git, davmor2!
<davmor2> JamesTait: you're welcome
<davmor2> JamesTait: I guess it earwormed you :)
<JamesTait> davmor2, it's OK, I'm listening to Let It Go to get rid of it. ð
<JamesTait> https://youtu.be/L0MK7qz13bU
<ujjain> diplo, what is a stag do?
<ujjain> a bachelor party in UK english?
<foobarry> yes
<ujjain> ah cool
<ujjain> 3 weeks ago I wanted to go early from the pub
<ujjain> I took a half pint
<ujjain> smart decision
<ujjain> but after that I took a full pint
<ujjain> crappy decision
<ujjain> crappy friday morning
<diplo> :P
<diplo> The first stag do started at 4pm Friday and finished at 6pm Sunday! Oh my I'm too old for that now :)
<SuperMatt> I was too old for stags when I went to my first one
<SuperMatt> I was probably born 40
<foobarry> SuperMatt: don't you do dancing?
<SuperMatt> I do do dancing, yes
<foobarry> i am 40
<foobarry> my stag was a beer and curry
<foobarry> my ideal stag is an evening of catching up with the lads  playing pool etc
<SuperMatt> pretty much my idea too
<foobarry> when you are young you see all your mates all the time
<foobarry> as age and commitments grow you cherish social time together so you really just want to catch up with them rather than do things
<diplo> Both these were stag dos for people 5~ years younger than me, they still enjoy drinking heavily
<diplo> And not parents :)
<foobarry> i went on a stag to the tomatina festival
<foobarry> one of the best things i ever did
<diplo> We did canoeing down the river wye, was actually good fun..
<foobarry> new guy brought his clicky keyboard in his bag on his first day :)
<bashrc_> nice
<foobarry> then installed arch
<foobarry> i thought arch was just a wiki
<diplo> :p
<SuperMatt> hahaha
<SuperMatt> it's probably the best source of linux knowledge I have ever come across
<ujjain> I had a lithuanian stag last month
<ujjain> friday to sunday
<ujjain> was fun, we did paintball too
<ujjain> drunk lithuanians were scary as fuck, paintball hurts
<SuperMatt> did you do drunk paintball?
<ujjain> Yep
<popey> i went paintballing with south africans once, against a team of black people. that was scary
<ujjain> scotch paintball
<popey> one of the saffers said "hey, see any coloured, shoot em in the face!"
<SuperMatt> drunk paintball seems to me like the worst idea ever
<popey> oh I dunno :)
<popey> painkiller :)
<ujjain> well, they say russians are the scariest white people, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ofx7w_7dDEc - lithuanians seemed very soviet, the paintball building was very soviet
<ujjain> drunk paintball was fun, less painful
<ujjain> but you have to be careful with your vizer, don't take it off unless really completely completely outside of battle zone
<ujjain> I got 2 direct shots to my vizer
<popey> ooh http://store.bq.com/en/ubuntu-edition-e5
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<brobostigon> morning bigcalm
<MooDoo> howdy bigcalm
 * awilkins is waiting for the Ubuntu Convergophone
<zmoylan-pi> when a nokia and an androidphone love each other very much...
<bigcalm> Not sure I need to spend Â£147 on another phone I'm not using yet
<TwistedLucidity> It's enormous as well
<TwistedLucidity> Was all excited for a moment, thought that was the octo-behemoth going on sale
<popey> the smallest phone I own now is the zte open
<popey> biggest is the mx4
<davmor2> popey: the mx4 is huge
<ne2k> are these ubuntu phones running native linux, then? i.e. not android/dalvik/art/java/bytecode/jit? does this make them faster?
<popey> correct, they are linux
<popey> with gnu userland stuff like bash
<ne2k> popey, so you can't install android apps, then
<popey> correct
<popey> there is no java / dalvik / classlibs installed
<ne2k> how much faster is it without the dalvik/art/java layer?
<popey> hard to say, it's comparing oranges and bananas
<ne2k> my understanding was that ART was pretty superoptimized now and didn't really have much performance hit
<awilkins> ART has the potential to be just as fast as native code
<popey> how much faster is an apple iphone without java?
<popey> (is the same question)
<awilkins> TBH - you can make an app suck, performance wise, on any platform
<ne2k> of course
<awilkins> But having a platform with fast runtime libraries helps
<awilkins> Given Ubuntu is only on one line of phones I imagine the drivers for the graphics acceleration are all in place
<intrbiz> popey: is ubuntu phone using the android kernel or stock kernel?
<popey> we use a kernel based off the android one
<popey> because we need that for the drivers (gpu / radio etc)
<intrbiz> sure
<davmor2> intrbiz: this has a diagram of roughly how it works https://developer.ubuntu.com/en/start/ubuntu-for-devices/porting-new-device/
<nucc1> awilkins: [RE: ART has the potential to be just as fast as native code]. why isn't it?
<awilkins> nucc1, Well, it is native code :-)
<awilkins> nucc1, Once it's compiled
<nucc1> subjectively, i'm on the verge of giving up on Android by nowâ¦ largely because Android runs fine for the first week you buy it, and gets slower as it gets older
<popey> I was amazed how quickly sdl apps launch on the ubuntu phone, even the mid/low end one. they start near instantly
<nucc1> and i've used pretty much every kind of device
<nucc1> my last phone was a sony xperia z3 with 3GB of RAM as per the specs. It took forever to show the running apps list.
<popey> i like the design of sony phones
<zmoylan-pi> it was looking up the apps you were allowed to know it was running :-)
<popey> they feel comparable to apple devices in terms of 'premium'
<nucc1> girlfriend's iphone on the other hand, seemed to be able to predict what you wanted to do next and would show you the screen
<popey> my wife loves her iphone and macbook pro
<nucc1> popey: yes, Sony is the Apple of everything else, in my view.
<popey> yeah
<popey> she loves the sony telly too :)
<nucc1> same here
<nucc1> in Tellies, nothing else comes close to a Sony.
<diplo> But Sony are teh evil!!``1!11!!!1Â¬Â¬Â¬
<diplo> :D
<nucc1> again, i've tried a lot. Samsung continues the typical UI madness, and leave out unbelievably trivial issues. My last Panasonic could play blurays fine at ~25Mbps bitrate, but couldn't play 1080p netflix streams
<nucc1> ps, the panasonic was a home theatre :d
<diplo> I *need* a new telly, just can't afford it currently, mines a Dell :)
<nucc1> The sony TV it was paird to could play media over the network at pretty much any bitrate better than the panasonic theatre.
<nucc1> generally nowadays, i don't even bother buying anything other than a Sony
<nucc1> i'm interested in checking out the Ubuntu phone, but i haven't yet seen a device that tempts me spec-wise
<popey> i do love the sony telly too. emote control even has a netflix dedicated button :S
<nucc1> and it's hard to give up my chromecast
<nucc1> diplo: get a chromecast
<diplo> nucc1: Only 1 hdmi slot
<diplo> :/
<diplo> As I said, Old!
<diplo> :P
<diplo> Unless anyone knows if they work through a hdmi switcher?
<nucc1> diplo: maybe an AV-receiver then. The [ahem!] Sony STR-DN850 has 6 hdmi inputs
<diplo> I always doubted it
<diplo> I#ve been looking at some recently
 * diplo looks at that model
<nucc1> cost Â£350 when i got mine, and works quite good. The remote-control is absolute simplicity.
<nucc1> it has one bug though, if your TV supports the HDMI-ARC/CEC spec: it needs to be turned on, off and then on again to be able to control it via the TV remote
<diplo> Close to the price of a TV ( well one that I could afford ) But I want one anyway, looks nice though! Decisions decisions
<nucc1> if your TV's display quality is good enough, and the screen size is good enough, in my view, the AV receiver is a better purchase
<bigcalm> With dhcpd, how do I specify a subnet per interface? My googling is not good
<diplo> Only issue with the telly ( apart from its probably awful on power usage ) is that it has a slightly loose hdmi slot, but that would be negated by the amp
<diplo> bigcalm: Noooooooooooo can't ask actual technical questions in here!!!!!
<nucc1> the amp will cost a fair bit though, especially if you also need to buy speakers.
<diplo> Got some fairly decent speaks from before
<bigcalm> It could be that I have installed the wrong dhcp server. What's the recommended one?
<bigcalm> Or maybe not. Using isc-dhcp-server
<awilkins> OpenWRT uses dnsmasq
<awilkins> and odhcps
<awilkins> and odhcpd
<shauno> seems Disk Utility got all kinds of pretty :)
<diddledan> ooh?
<shauno> oops, wrong one
<diddledan> ?
<shauno> sorry, didn't mean that to come here.  I have the same screen(1) opened on two machines, and keep forgetting they're the same thing
<diddledan> aah. so disk utility prettyness. pic or it didn't happen :-p
<shauno> http://imgur.com/a/4XC2N  it happened
<shauno> (the pie chart widget is terrible though. looks good, doesn't act good)
<SuperMatt> can't really see the point of a disk utility being that pretty, since it's more or less a "use once and forget about it" tool
<shauno> I think it's more an overhaul because the logical/physical volume stuff wasn't there before
<SuperMatt> sure, that's important, but it doesn't need to be quite so fluffy
<shauno> since they're starting to use logical volumes (think lvm) for more and more things, they had to make an appearance
<shauno> sure, but if you're reworking it anyway, there's no harm re-working it to 2015 standards rather than 2002 :)
<awilkins> I'd like to see a LUKS-on-LVM-with-dm-cache install config for
<awilkins> Ubiquity
<awilkins> See : http://askubuntu.com/questions/620480/how-to-install-ubuntu-with-both-disk-encryption-and-ssd-caching
<bigcalm> My dhcp server isn't serving on eth2 or eth3 :(
<MooDoo> bigcalm: rubbish
<davmor2> bigcalm: then you set it up wrong :P
<MooDoo> davmor2: it's ok he's going to tell us it's service on eth0 or eth1 instead ;)
<davmor2> just for fun https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vrIqSlt9PXg
<MooDoo> davmor2: love this one too :) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lL8JEEt2RxI
<ujjain> how do I see what I use in mysql? utf-8 etc... I want to check it on a table
<ujjain> found it
<ujjain> it was obviously  SELECT TABLE_CATALOG, TABLE_SCHEMA, TABLE_NAME, COLUMN_NAME, COLLATION_NAME
<ujjain>     FROM INFORMATION_SCHEMA.COLUMNS, who would forget
<ujjain> show create table only showed default charset
<intrbiz> bigcalm: for dhcp you need to specify the interfaces to bind on, /etc/default/dhcpd probably
<bigcalm> proliant ~ $ greproliant ~ $ grep -i interfaces= /etc/default/isc-dhcp-server
<bigcalm> INTERFACES="eth2 eth3"
<bigcalm> Gah
<bigcalm> p -i interfaces= /etc/default/isc-dhcp-server
<bigcalm> INTERFACES="eth2 eth3"
<bigcalm> Why is my mouse registering double wheel clicks?
<bigcalm> proliant ~ $ grep -i interfaces= /etc/default/isc-dhcp-server
<bigcalm> INTERFACES="eth2 eth3"
<intrbiz> bigcalm: you restarted after editing said file?
<bigcalm> Yep
<intrbiz> bigcalm: want commandline shows in ps aux?
<bigcalm> Is there a way to check the config is correct?
<bigcalm> dhcpd    31275  0.0  0.0  19636  6484 ?        Ss   17:08   0:00 dhcpd -user dhcpd -group dhcpd -f -q -4 -pf /run/dhcp-server/dhcpd.pid -cf /etc/dhcp/dhcpd.conf eth2 eth3
<bigcalm> http://paste.ubuntu.com/11675413/
<bigcalm> That's dhcpd.conf
<intrbiz> bigcalm: what does the following give? : netstat -nlup | grep dhcpd
<bigcalm> http://paste.ubuntu.com/11675498/
<intrbiz> bigcalm: do you have a firewall running?
<bigcalm> Not on the microserver, no
<intrbiz> bigcalm: what is in the dhcpd logs?
<bigcalm> I can't find them!
<intrbiz> bigcalm: mixed into the general syslog?
<bigcalm> Looks like it
<bigcalm> Jun  9 17:39:47 proliant dhcpd: Wrote 2 leases to leases file.
<bigcalm> Nothing else appearing in syslog
<intrbiz> bigcalm: sounds promising, what is in /var/lib/dhcp/db/dhcpd.leases
<bigcalm> Ooo
<bigcalm> That's interesting
<bigcalm> Jun  9 17:41:33 proliant dhcpd: DHCPREQUEST for 192.168.1.211 from e0:db:55:bf:e6:1a via eth2: wrong network.
<bigcalm> Jun  9 17:41:47 proliant dhcpd: DHCPOFFER on 192.168.80.100 to e0:db:55:bf:e6:1a (iain-laptop) via eth2
<bigcalm> But the laptop is not accepting it
<bigcalm> Know how to clear out the dhcp lease on the client side?
<intrbiz> bigcalm: remove the client lease: /var/lib/dhcpcd/... or /var/lib/dhclient/... and restart networking maybe? is it NetworkManager/
<bigcalm> What the heck?
<bigcalm> wlan0 has taken a lease of 192.168.90.103
<bigcalm> wlan0 should have used 192.168.1.0/24
<intrbiz> bigcalm: how is your laptop connected to eth2 / eth3 ?
<bigcalm> intrbiz: via a dumb switch to eth2 on the microserver. Nothing else is plugged into the dumb switch
<bigcalm> Finally!
<bigcalm> I removed the leases and resorted to a reboot
<bigcalm> Laptop now has .80.100
<intrbiz> cool
<bigcalm> Wifi should be on .1.x though :(
<intrbiz> somehow got wifi connected to eth2 / 3
<intrbiz> ?
<bigcalm> eth1 is connected to the wifi router
<bigcalm> Looks like the wifi router is looking for any local dhcp server
<intrbiz> bigcalm: dhcp is broadcast, so the first server to respond on the ethernet domain wins
<intrbiz> bigcalm: but if dhcpd is only listening on eth2+3 that shouldn't be the case
<bigcalm> Indeed
<bigcalm> I've plugged eth2 on the microserver and the laptop back into the managed switch to see if port grouping will work now
<intrbiz> bigcalm: listening on '0.0.0.0:67' does suggest your dhcp server might be listening on all interfaces
<SuprEngr_mobile> please ignore this (testing Android setup)
<SuperEngineer> [whoopee, got the android app setup first time]
<bujji> why umask is having default permissions for files is 666 for directories 777...
<shauno> usually it wouldn't.  they're not sensible defaults.
<shauno> 644 for files and 755 for directories is more typical
<daftykins> shauno: did you work out that 10.11 permissions hassle?
<shauno> yeah.  still not happy with it, but there is a switch for it (an arguement to the kernel at boot)
<daftykins> ugh nasty
<daftykins> so they're properly locking down even root writing to / ?
<shauno> pretty much
<daftykins> crazy
<shauno> sandbox roles are a lot like SElinux roles.  acl that go way past unix permissions
<shauno> which used to translate to "you can lock it down pretty good if you want to".  it now defaults to such a scenario.
<shauno> apparently there is a proper switch for it in the recovery system, the same place you set firmware passwords and such.  but that image current panics on boot for me
<daftykins> oh you can actually password lock boot via that recovery thing?
<shauno> yeah.  in the Utilities menu in recovery there's a tool to put a password in EFI
<shauno> it doesn't prevent boot, it just prevents any boot-time options (booting from other disks, etc)
<daftykins> ah yeah
<shauno> so, eg, you can't boot the recovery image itself without my efi password
<daftykins> that could be handy, though the client with macs is giving hers up soon
<daftykins> she doesn't like them XD
<daftykins> ah yeah
<shauno> aaanyway.  I was just exceptionally grumpy because the previous version (10.10) had a bug in the installer that freaked out if there was too many files in /usr/local
<shauno> so I thought I'd be clever and move mine out the way before I upgraded, expecting a repeat.  so this new "security" meant I couldn't put it back  lol
<daftykins> does that path even normally exist on a mac?
<shauno> yes
<daftykins> ah ok
<shauno> /usr/local and /opt are the two whitelisted locations for this "rootless" stuff
<daftykins> i never did get directory structure :>
<shauno> well, these are the same as any other OS :)
<daftykins> yeah i mean on Loonix in general
<daftykins> right, gotta reboot my host for patch tuesday :)
<daftykins> biab
<shauno> and I gotta get out on me bike before it gets dark.  adios.
<daftykins> enjoy!
<knightwise> you peeps :-)Âµ
<popey> you
<daftykins> mu
<diddledan> daftykins: "host"?
<daftykins> i IRC from a VM
<diddledan> hyper-v?
<daftykins> oh dear lord no, not that tosh
<daftykins> :>
<diddledan> o_O
<diddledan> just wondering how patch tuesday affects you unless your host is a windows pc
<daftykins> correct
<daftykins> amusingly i have a Linux VM atop my Windows file server
<daftykins> :D
<diddledan> what virtualiser do you use then?
<daftykins> however if it were the other way around, i'd have way more reboots for the constant ubuntu kernel updates
<daftykins> vmware ws
<diddledan> hmm
<intrbiz> daftykins: you'll be wanting to update then: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/06/09/vmware_patches_dos_and_code_execution_flaws/
<daftykins> thanks, it's about as far from mission critical as you can get though :D
<shauno> they say smoking kills.  I think it's the hills.  hills kill.
<diddledan> hills kill smokers
<daftykins> ^
<daftykins> with me cycling everywhere i avoid anything lungs related so i don't get the hassle from it
<daftykins> can be really nasty
<diddledan> i get those problems without the smoking tho
<shauno> I could nap now.  that was fun
<daftykins> diddledan: eh like coughing issues?
<daftykins> shauno: got a little road-bike? doing many miles?
<shauno> nah, got a nice childish mountain bike
<shauno> completely pointless for galway's lack of mountains, but all the 'proper' ones look silly
<ineedhelp> hey guys, this doesnt really relate to ubuntu but how can i remove a object from a picutre with the background disppearing
<daftykins> ah s'all good, all i have are mountain bikes
<daftykins> my higher end one needs the drivetrain replaced atm
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/ixap3kddvynw452/IMG_20130614_025657.jpg?dl=0
<shauno> guy I work with got a nice expensive .. hybrid? cross .. something
<shauno> it looks nifty, but I can't help thinking it's the kinda thing that'd end up in lycra.
<ineedhelp> i need to remove this white box from the overpicture with the numbers dispearing. https://www.dropbox.com/s/fc7f4nvx0wq2ehu/Capture.PNG?dl=0
<ineedhelp> i meant without
<ineedhelp> can photoshop or gimz do it
<daftykins> shauno: ah the all the gear and no idea types are so big now
<daftykins> friend of my dads' son drops several grand into just wheel rims Â¬_Â¬
<daftykins> the kind of roadies that are so _word here_ that they avoid the cycle lanes and stay on the road to get their times :P
 * daftykins shakes his head
<shauno> I honestly don't know about that pic.  you don't have much detail remaining behind the white box, and zero chance of recovering anything behind those black borders
<shauno> the best I could think of would be to see how far you can push the contrast in that area before it starts looking stupid, and see what comes out of it
<ineedhelp> should program can i use
<ineedhelp> what* program should i use
<ineedhelp> paint?
<shauno> there I'm less useful.  everything I'm used to is on the mac, so kinda chocolate fireguard
<shauno> just trying to suggest that being white on a white background, it's not the white that needs fixing.  it's the text needs darkening
<ineedhelp> mate, you could be my hero if this works out!!!!!!
<shauno> either way, you still have the issue that what's behind the black borders is basically up to your imagination.  not even daz gonna fix those.
<ineedhelp> oh crap... didnt notice the numbers behind the black lines
<ineedhelp> .... so i download demo photoshop, get the dark text darker right
<shauno> even gimp should do that.  look for contrast, it's usually an icon that looks like a moon half black half white, yank it around and see what happens
<ineedhelp> no paint
<shauno> it's been a good 20 years since I've used paint for anything more than pasting screenshots, so couldn't guess what it's capable of these days
<diddledan> shauno: nothing new methinks
<ineedhelp> thanks shauno, i be back. Sky is really slow, it taking over 2 hours to download a 82 MB!!!!!
<shauno> well, I did notice it can save png now, that's a good start :)
<shauno> and fits well with my "why doesn't windows save screenshots as files" workflow
<shauno> I do think I need to buy some bike bits though :(
<intrbiz> wish Java supported heredocs :(
<shauno> one of my pedals keeps falling off .. the whole arm bit that hangs off the axle
<shauno> inside that arm, and the bit that it's meant to go onto, are both chewed to hell
<shauno> (is it called an axle if there's no wheel? just a crank-shaft of some sort? I assume these things have names ..)
<intrbiz> crank merely means a bend in a shaft
<intrbiz> wheels rotate on an axle
<shauno> hm.  that could be what the pedals live on though? I mean it's 5 different parts, but functionally it's a bent shaft
<intrbiz> pedals are attached to a cranked shaft
#ubuntu-uk 2015-06-10
<intrbiz> running kde5 \o/
<intrbiz> looking pretty awesome
<mapps> hi
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<mapps> ;]
<bujji> how to find load average using uptime command
<mapps> it shows t i thought
<SuperMatt> g'day
<MooDoo> hello all
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<knightwise> hey brobostigon
<ujjain> hello
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<ujjain> what is cooler, a sports or prone rifle?
<knightwise> guns arent cool
<brobostigon> morning knightwise, ujjain and bigcalm
<knightwise> about to swear in church but .... i just got a surface pro 3 to play with
 * brobostigon is cool.
<knightwise> interesting hardware
<knightwise> nice to play around with and use it to connect to ssh :p
 * brobostigon is just cool, but definitivly freezing.
<brobostigon> isnt just*
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Ball Point Pen Day! ð
<mwludarski> Hi, I have problem with game perfromance on Ubuntu 15.04, I've installed Fglrx-updates drivers. I have a hybrid graphic Inte/AMD  and my graphic card is Radeon 7610M 2GB and I have a laptop Asus K53SK with i7(second generation),16GB Ram(Corsair Vegance) .I asked question on (askubuntu and answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+question/267884 but no one can not help me)
 * davmor2 stabs his ball point pen through a Â£20 note, then rips the pen through the note and then shows the pen and note intact....dun dun dun
<davmor2> JamesTait: that was just for you
<JamesTait> Magic!
<davmor2> JamesTait: it's all done with mirrors honest :D
<TheGeek> mornin
<awilkins> mwludarski, which games are you having trouble with? Bear in mind that the AMD drivers are famous for sucking badly.
<mwludarski> All games I have on steam
<awilkins> And the 7610M gets 1 star for performance : http://www.futuremark.com/hardware/gpu/AMD+Radeon+HD+7610M/review
<awilkins> Is this performance compared to how they run on Windows?
<mwludarski> no
<awilkins> And "all games that I have on Steam" isn't very specific... I'd imagine that games like FTL which are mostly 2D rendering probably work OK but games like Pillars of Eternity which render things in 3D are probably less wonderful
<mwludarski> For example when I run cs:source on windows i have around 80-120fps on highest graphic settings, but on ubuntu I have around 20-30 on lowest graphic settings
<awilkins> On the same hardware?
<mwludarski> yes
<mwludarski> I checked fps on Witcher2,Dead Island,CS:GO,CS:Source,War Thunder,Rust,Guns of Icarus, Euro Truck, Day of Defeat:source, Mount & Blade:warband
<TwistedLucidity> Those all look like intense 3D games.
<awilkins> Yeah, Witcher 2 is a challenging game even on something as recent as a 560Ti
<awilkins> The Source engine games, not so much
<TwistedLucidity> Could it be that they are trying to run on the Intel chipset? I'll confess to only having experience of discrete nvidia cards.
<TwistedLucidity> i.e. using bumblebee. I am unsure of the AMD equivalent
<awilkins> Stupid question : have you tried the OSS driver?
<awilkins> http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/open-source-amd-graphics-now-awesome-heres-get/
<awilkins> Apparently it's the bee's knees now
<awilkins> But not the best for games, meh
<mwludarski> awilkin I did try oss driver
<awilkins> WOrse?
<TwistedLucidity> Roll-on the Steam Machines and nvidia/AMD getting a kick in the conkers.
<popey> Tempted by a steam link thing
<awilkins> Will Steam Machines use Mir, do you think?
<mwludarski> nothing change but I tried them on ubuntu 14.04  Now I have 15.04 vers I will try now it
<awilkins> mwludarski, The "not actually using the AMD hardware" thing is possibly the most likely problem
<awilkins> Followed by "sorry, the drivers just suck horribly"
<mwludarski> no drivers but AMD ;p
<awilkins> I wouldn't consider buying AMD hardware just because of it's terrible performance reputation on Linux
<TwistedLucidity> Either glxgears or glxspheres will tell you which driver they run on. Let me check which one it is....
<awilkins> gears doesn't
<TwistedLucidity> It'll be spheres then. I used that to check I had Bumblebee config'd correctly.
<awilkins> glxinfo works too
<awilkins> And is installed by default
<mwludarski> I bought laptop with windows 7 but I had a lot of bluescreen so I change os to ubuntu :P
<awilkins> glxinfo | grep vendor
<awilkins> Lots of bluescreens?
<mwludarski> yeap
 * bashrc does not believe that Windows is ready for the desktop
<TwistedLucidity> awilkins: True. But spheres gives a nice, simple output and acted as a (very) basic performance test.
<awilkins> That's really only one of a few things on Windows 7
<awilkins> BSOD ==   bad GPU driver (all too common on laptops)
<awilkins> Or bad hardware
<mwludarski> haha
<awilkins> It's a laptop so it's not the PSU
<awilkins> But it may well be duff RAM
<TwistedLucidity> memtest386 would do system RAM. Don't think it would test GPU RAM
<awilkins> The only things I get BSOD for on modern windows, GPU drivers, failing PSU, bad RAM
<mwludarski> glxinfo |grep vendor results : server glx vendor string: ATI
<mwludarski> client glx vendor string: ATI
<mwludarski> OpenGL vendor string: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc.
<intrbiz> awilkins: Nvidia's SATA drivers clocked the most BSODs for Vista
<mwludarski> I've checked ram 2 days agon and everything was fine
<awilkins> intrbiz, I think they revised the driver model so that only the GPU drivers were running in kernel space
<TwistedLucidity> Will bridging from AMD -> Intel suffer the same performance hit as with nvidia?
<awilkins> Hence GPU being the only thing that causes BSOD now (??)
<TwistedLucidity> Something about having to marshal the framebuffer wotsit across...I forget the details.
<bujji> https://bpaste.net/show/bf4636ff969e
<intrbiz> ?
<bujji> yum install squirrelmail is not working
<directhex> awilkins: no. never. i can guarantee that.
<directhex> bujji: try a fedora channel?
<bujji> its saying https://bpaste.net/show/bf4636ff969e
<directhex> or centos or whatever
<intrbiz> bujji: try asking in the chanel for the distro you are using
<intrbiz> bujji: judging by the error message, the configured URL of the EPEL repo is wrong
<bujji> intrbiz:okey
<directhex> awilkins: steamos will use x.org, until x.org games run perfectly and at least 1:1 as fast under wayland w/ proprietary drivers. "at least" being important there, as there's complexity increase from changing, so tangible improvements would be needed
<knightwise> afternoon peepsÂµ
<MooDoo> howdy knightwise
<knightwise> hey MooDoo
<bujji> intrbiz:configured successfullly but not working
<knightwise> so , whats up :)
<awilkins> The vector antiparallel to gravity
<TwistedLucidity> The ISS after the oopsie, fortunately.
<knightwise> lol
<TwistedLucidity> perpendicular (noun): see 'antiparallel'.
<popey> Egg banjo time!
<ujjain> RTNETLINK answers: No such file or directory < what does this mean?
<ujjain> - /sbin/tc qdisc del dev lo root
<ujjain> ah, already works, devs tried to del before a create
<foobarry> why doesn't RHEL/Centos have tmpreaper?
<foobarry> seems odd
<bigcalm> intrbiz: ping :)
<intrbiz> bigcalm: pong
<bigcalm> Hazar!
<bigcalm> OpenVPN
<davmor2> bigcalm: yes it rock
<davmor2> s
<intrbiz> foobarry: to tidy up /tmp?
<bigcalm> I've enabled client-client in the server config. My home laptop can now "see" the office printer. But it can't connect as all ports are appearing as "filtered" in nmap
<bigcalm> intrbiz: any thoughts?
<foobarry> intrbiz: yes, centos has tmpwatch which sucks
<foobarry> tmpreaper is much better since it works
<foobarry> but not found on centos
<MooDoo> foobarry: tmpwatch does pretty much the same on centos
<foobarry> doesn't do regex or delete directories
<MooDoo> oh sorry didn't read your last but lol
<MooDoo> bit
<foobarry> so cannot do /home/*/data
<intrbiz> bigcalm: where is your laptop and where is your printer?
<intrbiz> bigcalm: client-client just allows two VPN clients to pass traffic to each other
<bigcalm> intrbiz: laptop is at home. printer is at shrewsbury office
<intrbiz> bigcalm: ok, and by 'see' what do you mean, just ping?
<bigcalm> intrbiz: nmap 192.168.1.0/24 from home lists all of the awake devices at the shrewsbury office. All devices (bar the openvpn server itself) show the ports as filtered
<intrbiz> bigcalm: what is the default gateway of the printer?
<bigcalm> 1.1 I expect
<bigcalm> Which is currently the adsl router
<intrbiz> is that the openvpn box, or the FTTC router?
<bigcalm> Not the micro server
<intrbiz> do you have a static route on the FTTC router?
<bigcalm> Only to forward 1194 on to the openvpn box
<intrbiz> ok
<davmor2> bigcalm: get your boss to hire adam, send you intrbiz and get him to do it for you done ;)
<bigcalm> davmor2: I don't learn that way
<bigcalm> davmor2: I now have my own 26 port managed switch at home
<davmor2> intrbiz: can slap the back of your head in a gibbs-esque way to help you learn :)
<intrbiz> bigcalm: so, as your VPN client is on a different network to the printer, the printer will need to know where to forward the traffic via (ie: to route it)
<intrbiz> bigcalm: by default traffic that is not for the local nic, will be sent to the default gateway
<bigcalm> intrbiz: I thought that would have been handled by the incoming request. Like wot http does
<intrbiz> bigcalm: in this case, the printer is sending traffic destinded for your VPN client, to the FTTC router, which will drop it
<bigcalm> Ug
<bigcalm> So until I make the microserver the router/firewall for the office, I need to add static routes to the FTTC router?
<intrbiz> bigcalm: routing is plain IP (layer 3), IP has no concept of a 'connection'
<bigcalm> I see (I think)
<intrbiz> bigcalm: you can add a static route on the FTTC router, however that probably won't work, as things dislike triangular routing
<bigcalm> Quite
<intrbiz> bigcalm: you could either, set the default router of the printer to the microserver (easiest way) or add a static route on the printer
<bigcalm> Worth a shot. What route would I be adding? to route traffic for 192.168.43.0/24 to the openvpn box?
<intrbiz> bigcalm: as the printer is unlikely to need access to the interner, changing default gateway of the printer will probably be the best option for now
<bigcalm> And it won't stop local users from using the printer?
<intrbiz> bigcalm: route would be: <vpn_network> via <openvpn_ip>
<intrbiz> bigcalm: no, because local users are on the same network, so routing does not come into play, packets are sent from local user -> printer
<bigcalm> I don't mean to sound like a scratched record, but isn't that what the vpn client is doing as well?
<intrbiz> bigcalm: routing needs to be configured both ends
<intrbiz> bigcalm: so the VPN server, tells the VPN client, the routes it needs to access stuff behind the VPN server
<intrbiz> bigcalm: stuff behind the VPN server, equally, needs to know where to route stuff to reach the VPN clients
<bigcalm> proliant ~ $ telnet 192.168.1.107 9100
<bigcalm> Trying 192.168.1.107...
<bigcalm> Connected to 192.168.1.107.
<bigcalm> Escape character is '^]'.
<bigcalm> Win!
<bigcalm> That was by changing the gateway on the printer to that of the openvpn box
<intrbiz> bigcalm: the other option, is to masquerade the VPN clients onto the local network via the VPN server
<intrbiz> bigcalm: :)
<intrbiz> bigcalm: where did you telnet from?
<bigcalm> Once I move all routing to the openvpn box, I assume that I won't have to
<bigcalm> intrbiz: my home microserver
<intrbiz> bigcalm: correct
<bigcalm> I'm in Shrewsbury today, so I ssh'd home via my home vpn tunnel and then used the work vpn tunnel to connect to the printer
<bigcalm> Fun times
<intrbiz> bigcalm: right, around the houses testing is always fun
<bigcalm> I have another box that I could do with talking to from home. But that device does talk to the internet
<bigcalm> I wonder if I can set a route without killing it
<intrbiz> bigcalm: linux box?
<bigcalm> iDigi X4
<intrbiz> bigcalm: ip route add <dest_net> via <gateway_ip>
<bigcalm> No, the box of tricks with zigbee in it
<intrbiz> bigcalm: ah, it might have the older route command
<bigcalm> I'm seeing what I can do via the web interface 1st
<bigcalm> I can add static routes via the web interface
<bigcalm> I can also clear out old static routes that it appears to have :|
<intrbiz> handy
<bigcalm> What's the Metric? I'll learn some day
<intrbiz> bigcalm: its the priority of that entry
<bigcalm> Reversed priority? Lower number == higher priority?
<intrbiz> bigcalm: you can have multiple entries for a route where the lowest metric wins
<intrbiz> bigcalm: metric could be: number of hops, latency etc
<bigcalm> I see
<intrbiz> 10 is the commonly used defauly
<intrbiz> default*
<intrbiz> or just leave it blank
<bigcalm> It works!
 * bigcalm bounces
<bigcalm> Now I can stop doing work related things in my lunch break and watch kitten videos for 5 minutes
<intrbiz> :)
<bigcalm> Woop woop
<bigcalm> I just added a static route to the FTTC router. Now I can ssh to my home machine from my office workstation without having to ssh to the openvpn server 1st
<bigcalm> This should mean that I can remove the static routes from individual devices
<bigcalm> Yep, still works
<bigcalm> davmor2: see, I get to learn this way around :)
<bigcalm> davmor2: come to the Oddfellows tonight
<davmor2> bigcalm: I'm going to try lots on at the minute though so no promises
<bigcalm> The pub needs more odd fellows
<davmor2> popey, bigcalm: in chromium can you try and go to ee.co.uk
<popey> i dont have chromium installed
<davmor2> popey: do you have chrome
<popey> ya
<popey> works in chrome
<davmor2> popey: thanks
<popey> np
<davmor2> for me works in ff fails in chromium
<bigcalm> davmor2: works for me in Chromium
<davmor2> hahahaha http://www.cosmopolitan.co.uk/love-sex/relationships/a35998/dating-a-girl-from-wolverhampton/  popey looks like they saw born in wolves and thought they needed to write an article :D
<davmor2> raised by wolves even
<popey> haha
<nucc1> so I have an SSH private key which I use to log in to 2 servers, A and B. If server A is compromised, should I assume that the attacker can is able to login to server B as me?
<MooDoo> nucc1: i would
<nucc1> MooDoo: so the ssh stuff is not public/private? I would imagine that the key stored on the servers is "public" and only the one on my laptop is "private"
<intrbiz> nucc1: if you have your private key stored on server A then yes, if it is jus the public key on server A (ie: authorized hosts), then it's all about the strength of your key
<intrbiz> nucc1: if you private key is only stored on your laptop, and the public key is deployed to servers A and B, if server A is compromised an attacker could not immediately login to server B
<nucc1> intrbiz: i pretty much just followed the instructions here: https://www.digitalocean.com/community/tutorials/how-to-set-up-ssh-keys--2
<davmor2> MooDoo: \o you like my comment then, my aim was a smile on your face :)
<nucc1> i think private key is on my laptop only, but i'll just generate a new set of keys.
<intrbiz> nucc1: your probably fine then
<intrbiz> nucc1: unless you've manually copied ~/.ssh/id_rsa to an vulnerable location, you'll be fine
<nucc1> intrbiz: no i didn't. thanks :)
<intrbiz> nucc1: as long as you keep the private key safe, all will be fine, unless someone factors your RSA public key (which is time consuming, expensive and unlikely)
<intrbiz> unless a debian maintainer has patched openssl again
<nucc1> lol at debian maintainer. private key is as safe as I can make it, because it's never left my laptop, which is full disk encrypted. I guess it's safe to say only NSA/GCHQ/Chinese Mil can get it
<nucc1> and they are welcome to my stash of sexting photos if they fancy.
<intrbiz> nucc1: or someone with a rubberhose
<nucc1> i doubt they can overpower me with a rubber hose :)
<intrbiz> https://xkcd.com/538/
<nucc1> a gun maybe, or a group of them :)
<zmoylan-pi> in east european circles they use a soldering iron in place of the rubber hose
<nucc1> good thing i'm just a nobody. he he. biggest threat to my computer is ransomware, i think.
<nucc1> or one of my VPSes turning into a DDoS bot
<Myrtti> let's see what Dell Support thinks of my laptop problem now...
<daftykins> Myrtti: what's up with it?
<Myrtti> daftykins: left speaker stopped working and the right one has a temperament now too
<daftykins> ooh-err
<daftykins> any indication that's common on that model at all?
<Myrtti> tried googling it but haven't found any
<Myrtti> XPS13 9333.
<daftykins> mmm i remember it well, pretty close to ideal machine really
<Myrtti> of course the support wants me to do the online diagnostics now...
<Myrtti> nnnggghhhh.
<daftykins> ah some nasty Windows prog? blech
 * popey fancies the 9343
<popey> still...
<daftykins> i've got a client who is essentially picking between a Lenovo X1 Carbon and the Microsoft Surface Pro 3
<daftykins> mobile data seemed to be a priority though, i think a Surface with a dongle stuck out the side of would be a terrible idea :D
<popey> do they not do one with data?
<popey> surprising
<davmor2> daftykins: just sell them a mifi too :D
<daftykins> seems a surface 2 might have done, but it's nowhere in the specs of the 3
<daftykins> mmm nah, this one just *lost* an entire laptop so the more things can be in the one unit the better i think :)
<Myrtti> could Dell have "online sound card diagnostics from the support website http://del.ly/6013B6O7F " that would work on Ubuntu? Please tell me I just can't find it...
 * Myrtti doesn't want to nuke Ubuntu to run a bloody diagnostics test
<daftykins> you can run executables from the Windows preinstallation environment
<daftykins> mind you it'd lack necessary drivers at that point >8\/ nevermind
<daftykins> that link needs a service tag
<daftykins> powered by PC Doctor, hmm
<Myrtti> just asked them how they would have dealt with the issue if the laptop were the Developer Edition
<Myrtti> and double checking that they mean the Windows only tool
<davmor2> Myrtti: there is the quick test button no idea how that works with ubuntu dells
<Myrtti> "The Quick Test scans the hard drive, memory, processor and disc drive of your Windows-based PC or tablet for errors."
<daftykins> it doesn't, it ties into a Windows program you are told to install
<Myrtti> indeed.
<daftykins> there's probably an equivalent within the EFI
<daftykins> but then you're asking them about speakers so all those tests are useless XD
<Myrtti> Ubuntu thinks the speaker is there.
<Myrtti> I can hear just fine from the right speaker.
<Myrtti> well, when that one isn't getting a weird static
<popey> this sounds dumb...
<popey> but have you tried running alsamixer?
<popey> (my usb mic gets muted or low vol sometimes and only alsamixer can fix the volume level)
<Myrtti> sure, just ran it. I can see S/PDIF, S/DIF 1 and S/PDIF 2 there.
<Myrtti> with toggles on and off.
<Myrtti> that's it.
<daftykins> would a live session also rule out any such quirks?
<popey> f6 to choose sound card?
<popey> card should be listed at top, Intel HDA or something
<Myrtti> live session might be a good idea
<Myrtti> alsamixer has nothing muted
<popey> nothing panned down?
<popey> i had one channel panned down on my mic, oddly
<Myrtti> live session has the same issue
<daftykins> speaks of something more serious then, mmm
<popey> yeah
<davmor2> I wonder if they ran the speaker cable over the graphics chip
<daftykins> CPU then
<daftykins> heh
<daftykins> i almost asked earlier if the intermittence was influenced by heat / uptime
<Myrtti> mmmmaybe
<Myrtti> Ive rebooted a few times now and the right speaker is fine
#ubuntu-uk 2015-06-11
<diplo> Morning all
<MooDoo> hello all
<TwistedLucidity> Hello and welcome to "avoid Reddit" day
<SuperMatt> yes, I've seen that they had accepted their social responsibility and removed hate groups, yet there's always someone who wants to complain
<TwistedLucidity> Was it all of them? There were some rather darker corners
<SuperMatt> well you can only really get the ones which are obvious
<SuperMatt> but if I was running something dark, I wouldn't rely on reddit for it
<diplo> TwistedLucidity: no only 5 or so
<diplo> Still some quite extereme ones there that haven't been removed
<directhex> they took out 5 seemingly minor ones, and left the big offenders
<diplo> yeah that's what I thought too
<directhex> the reasoning given is that they're policiing behaviour, not thought. so being a massive racist is fine, but being a massive racist at specific people is not
<directhex> yes, reddit is on fire today though
<directhex> i hope all the people threatening to leave for a competing site do so.
<diplo> Probably won't though
<directhex> npoe
<directhex> they've been threatening to leave for years
<SuperMatt> ok, this is where people forget there is a difference between freedom of speech, and inciting hatred.
<directhex> someone asked about suing on /r/legaladvice
<directhex> these kinds of hate-based neo-reactionaries (e.g. gamergaters) have a terrible time trying to understand that "i'm not listening to you" is not illegal. see also their legal threat based response to being blocked by people on twitter
<SuperMatt> saying "I think fat people have themselves to blame and should do something about it" is OK, but saying "Lool, look at the fatty, aren't they disgusting! fat people should just die" is not ok
<directhex> subs about rape techniques stay. subs about specific rape targets are not. stay classy, reddit!
<foobarry> if you get annoyed by reddit, you're too old for it
<diplo> heheh
<foobarry> s/you/one/
<TwistedLucidity> Also, reddit is not a place of free speech. It's private.
<TwistedLucidity> Like, say, a shopping arcade.
<TwistedLucidity> It may look like a street, you may think you retain various rights; but you are wrong. It's private land and some of your rights just evaporated.
<TwistedLucidity> I like reddit for some of the local banter, news and whatnot.
<TwistedLucidity> Oh, and the drama. Always with the drama.
<foobarry> i only read 1 sub on there now
<foobarry> and the linux one about 1nce a month if that
<foobarry> although i also went to the button :|
<TheGeek> Mornin
<popey> pip pip
<directhex> http://www.polygon.com/2015/6/10/8763247/ouya-selling-to-razer-says-report
<TwistedLucidity> foobarry: The main subs are lowest common denominator dross. The smaller ones are OK. Well, no worse than I'd imagine FB to be
<Myrtti> I wonder what I'd need to do to get something 3D scanned in and then to have something made based on the dimensions scanned it (but not an exact copy) *nnnggghhh* I hate being a noob.
<TwistedLucidity> directhex: Razer would seem to be a good fit, if the story is true
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<TheGeek> Myrtti, I would hazard some form of 3D lazer scanner would be in order.
<Myrtti> or just very, very careful measurements
<TheGeek> but wouldnt you rather play with one of these
<TheGeek> https://www.goprint3d.co.uk/makerbot-digitizer.html?gclid=CjwKEAjw4-SrBRDP483GvreDr2ASJAD5sCIupDQrUGKH_0H1eBMRgHMItMzl5Sx1r60RAUEZUy0lExoCwYzw_wcB
<Myrtti> I'm planning to buy a knitting machine and part of the project is replacing original 'motherboard' (which is attached to a cover and buttons) with an Arduino with a shield on top. The Arduino kit doesn't fit under the original covers so I recon new one would be in order
<Myrtti> TheGeek: too small.
<Myrtti> probably.
<Myrtti> *sigh*
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<TwistedLucidity> Myrtti: How ghetto are you prepared to go?
<TwistedLucidity> Because some perspex, making woode molds and an oven might do it.
<TwistedLucidity> "wooden"
<Myrtti> that's not a bad idea.
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Ferris Bueller Day! ð
<TwistedLucidity> Myrtti: Of just root around for old plastic lunch boxes and see if one can be made to fit
<TwistedLucidity> JamesTait: Sorry, I kinda stole your thunder and declared today "avoid reddit day"
<JamesTait> wfm, TwistedLucidity.
<TwistedLucidity> "Wood Fired Marshmallows"?
<zmoylan-pi> works from marsh
<TwistedLucidity> Whole Foods Massive?
<zmoylan-pi> well reddit comments are about the level of youtube comments so nothing of value was lost
<TwistedLucidity> I noticed that voat.co has collapsed under load.
<zmoylan-pi> all those trolls trying to create a 1000 accounts each probably...
<TwistedLucidity> Aye
<JamesTait> TwistedLucidity, "Works for me" ð
<Myrtti> TwistedLucidity: or I could... uh. maybe... knit something. put it in a mould and uh... pour resin on it.
<Myrtti> *snerk*
<SuperMatt> http://devopsreactions.tumblr.com/post/121259594477/ksplice
<shauno> another angle would be to find an arduino that does fit?
<zmoylan-pi> steam it over a hot kettle so it bends into shape that does fit... :-D
<shauno> well, like there's the mini/nano variants if it's footprint
<shauno> or the 'pro' variants if it's height
 * JamesTait lols at SuperMatt 
<shauno> (not really much cost difference, 'pro' is just smt instead through-hole, and usually bare holes instead of headers; resulting in vertically-challenged boards)
<TwistedLucidity> SuperMatt: This one - http://devopsreactions.tumblr.com/post/120174583354/the-service-is-broken-for-no-apparent-reason-10 shoudl speak to this one - http://devopsreactions.tumblr.com/post/121177282330/when-turning-it-off-and-on-actually-fixes-the
<davmor2> JamesTait: Oh Yeah https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sYGngLcS0u4
<JamesTait> davmor2, Oh Yeah!
<davmor2> JamesTait: More important when is Blues Brothers Day we can quote on that alll day long :)
<zmoylan-pi> what day are taxes due in cook county?
<zmoylan-pi> probably april 22 would be blues brothers day... http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/the-blues-brothers-make-their-world-premiere-on-saturday-night-live
<davmor2> It's 106 miles to Chicago, we got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, it's dark... and we're wearing sunglasses.
<zmoylan-pi> right, time to limp to lidl to see if they have any â¬20 bt keyboards left...
<JamesTait> zmoylan-pi, I'm pretty sure that wasn't the next line.
<JamesTait> davmor2, I think Blues Brothers Day is either next Tuesday or next Saturday - depending on whether you go for the earliest release date or just the USA release date.
<davmor2> JamesTait: it's just dawned on me that Ferris Bueller isn't actually that quotable for such a cult movie
<JamesTait> davmor2, Life moves pretty fast. If you don't stop and look around once in a while, you could miss it.
<MooDoo> JamesTait: Pardon my French, but Davmor2 is so tight that if you stuck a lump of coal up his ass, in two weeks you'd have a diamond.
<JamesTait> MooDoo, and davmor2 says it's not quotable. ð
<MooDoo> hehe
<davmor2> JamesTait: no I said isn't that quotable there are maybe 6-7 good lines there rest are either conversations or need a visual accompaniment to make it make sense
<zmoylan-pi> http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/ferris_buellers_day_off/quotes/
<diplo>  My friend wants a way for 100's of people to upload wedding photos ( not FB ) any suggestions, don't want to have username/passes to use it though
<diplo> Looked at owncloud/jquery file upload  (blueimp ) thing, but can't seperate by directories per user easily
<MooDoo> diplo - http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/28/wedding-photo-apps_n_3519413.html
<davmor2> diplo: they pretty much all need username and password
<diplo> yeah so I've found, I *could* write something, I cba really though
<awilkins> diplo, Syncthing?
<diplo> Yeah MooDoo, seen those things
<diplo> Debated that awilkins, but means non tech people installing/setting up
<diplo> I like the blueimp thing, but no seperate dirs per user
<TwistedLucidity> I was going to suggest ownCloud but....hmm...wonder if SeaFile or summat would give you the "per user" folder structure you want
<TwistedLucidity> Shame most browsers suck at FTP support
<diplo> Owncloud does anonymous uploading, only in Enterprise version though
<TwistedLucidity> If you want a folder-per-user, I would have expected at least a username to be mandatory so the system knew where to shove the files
<diplo> yeah more so they can create their own dir
<awilkins> You have to pay... to remove the "log in" feature
<awilkins> Wild.
<diplo> heheh
<diplo> "Enterprise"
<awilkins> And you thought MS was the king of changing a build flag and selling it as "Enterprise"
<awilkins> "Hey dogg, I changed MAX_MEM_CEILING to something more than 4GB for ya, that'll be another $200, ta."
<bashrc> $200 per bit
<davmor2> bashrc: per nibble
<diplo> :)
<TwistedLucidity> "zero ohm resistor"
<awilkins> "conductive bridge abatement operation"
<awilkins> (wire link snip)
<davmor2> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/celebritynews/11666316/christopher-lee-dies-live.html noooooo
<MooDoo> hmmm just read that.....hmmm they are all dropping like flies :(
<popey> old people do that
<shauno> 93's a helluva run
<DJones> Its not often I congratulate MS for doing something good, but http://search.slashdot.org/story/15/06/11/1223236/ask-toolbar-now-considered-malware-by-microsoft   Way to go MS :)
<popey> ho ho
<davmor2> yeah I bet the bing bar is still fine though right :D
<ujjain> 	I want to try out shooting for the first time. All you have to do is to decide whether you wish to visit on a Saturday (sporting rifle) at 2.30 pm or a Thursday evening (prone rifle) at 8.00 pm. What is easier?
<foobarry> the one they give girls
<foobarry> apparently the kick off the rifle will give you bruising
<shauno> it shouldn't be that bad, they're both sporting classes, just putting a .22 through a bit of paper
<shauno> wrong country for las-vegas style "let's go blow chunks out of the range"
<zmoylan-pi> try archery instead, much more fun
<foobarry> my workmate went clay pigeon and said he was hurting after his session
<foobarry> i like the sound of archery
<zmoylan-pi> shooting with a shotgun has much more of a kick than a .22 rifle
<diplo> My son wants me to take him to arxhery lessons
<shauno> yeah, a shotgun is a different beast.  if his choices are between prone & lightweight sporting, they're much the same
<zmoylan-pi> if the uk is like ireland archery is available almost everywhere.  it's suprising how many archery ranges there are about
<shauno> lightweight sporting replaced pistol-class shooting when they made sporting pistols neigh-on impossible after dunblane
<awilkins> I wonder how many of the laws that require us to practise archery on the village green are still in effect
<awilkins> And whether that means we can just rock up with a target and start plinking arrows
<zmoylan-pi> i was thought archery by ex irish special forces guy.  he was chuck norris x steven segal levels of awesome :-D
<popey> I went clay pigeon shooting at Bisley for a company jolly. Was exceptionally jolly!
<shauno> I tried hunting in michigan.  it was horrible.
<popey> Would do again, which I said at the time - about 10 years ago - and never have since.
<bashrc> hunts jaffa cakes
<zmoylan-pi> be careful, a wounded jaffa cake can be nasty when cornered
<shauno> jaffa cakes shouldn't have corners.  they're mouth-shaped for a reason!
 * davmor2 shoots the jaffa cakes so bashrc can't have any muhahahahahahahaha ;)
 * zmoylan-pi hopes that shauno had a licence to hunt jaffa cakes out of season
 * zmoylan-pi loves the handing salmon in suspicious circumstances law in the uk :-) http://now-here-this.timeout.com/2013/03/11/londons-top-ten-weird-laws/
<davmor2> popey: a waffer thin mint sir.....Oh come on sir just one waffer thin mint
<bujji> hello all
<diddledan> http://www.framestore.com/work/galaxy-choose-silk-chauffeur this is fascinating
<diddledan> galaxy brought audrey hepburn out of retirement
<MartijnVdS> wow.. local council is releasing a list of trees
<MartijnVdS> in XML
<MartijnVdS> http://opendata.alphenaandenrijn.nl/bomen.xml
<diddledan> xml trees eh?
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: yeah.. just look at that 21MB dump
<popey> evening
<daftykins> hallo there
<daftykins> just had a heavy thunderstorm and some mild flooding at my place :(
<popey> yoiks
<daftykins> i'm not even low lying XD just pesky backed up drains
<daftykins> i decided to power a few things off during the storm, which i never do. on firing back up my UPS was all "newp replace battery"
<daftykins> turned it off again, back on... hooray it accepted it :D
<popey> hah
<popey> trickster ups
<daftykins> it definitely is beyond life now though, i think i've been using that one for 10 years
<daftykins> i saw a new kind of Yorkie chocolate bar in the shop just before :O Yorkie Peanut?
<daftykins> new one on me
<zmoylan-pi> they appear every few years
<shauno> no idea why, they're obviously inferior to raisin yorkies
<zmoylan-pi> putting raisans in chocolate is merely a waste of chocolate
<daftykins> shauno: ^5! i just purchased a Raisin yorkie just then :>
<daftykins> or raisin and biscuit even, i think they are o0
<daftykins> ah this is great, today marks 3 months since i moved my old xbox360 account to Guernsey from the UK - only to discover that they don't let Guernseyans use xbox live
<daftykins> finally just switched back to UK and can play online again \o/
<shauno> you missed arguing with 13yos?
<daftykins> i only play online with my friends :) we pretend they don't exist
<daftykins> the xbox one has been fine thankfully, but their system instantly irreversibly bans any account that switches region within 3 months
<shauno> ouch
<shauno> I'd tell you my NES doesn't have these problems, but I'd start to sound like zmoylan-pi ;)
<daftykins> XD
 * zmoylan-pi banishes shauno to guernsey....
<shauno> hm.. do they get cable?
<daftykins> tubes and TV? nope
<daftykins> 40/5 Mb VDSL2 best offer, TV via freesat/sky if you want it
<zmoylan-pi> and the high wind speeds will make ip over avian unreliable, you'll need the heavier hardier sheep version :-)
<shauno> 40?!
<shauno> do they just sling harddrives in glass bottles or something?
<zmoylan-pi> amphibious sheep
<zmoylan-pi> called bob
<daftykins> zmoylan-pi: i really do hope you're writing that RFC in your idle moments ;)
<shauno> I'm still proud of EweDP, even if no-one laughed the first time
<daftykins> aww i would've laughed had i seen that one
<daftykins> how many hard disks do you think we can strap to a sheep o0
<daftykins> it's not sneakernet, it's hoofnet
<zmoylan-pi> well if we still want them to float  we'll have to balence them or use the hard disks as a keel...
<zmoylan-pi> self righting sheep...
<shauno> hm.  but if you float them, you can't dye different sheep as a compression algo
<zmoylan-pi> there's an idea, if the packets take forever to transfer you could shave qr codes into their fleece...
<zmoylan-pi> or tattoo the 1s and 0s on their skin necessitating having to shear them to read the information.  so if the packet is intercepted you'll at least know it was read preventing mitm attacks
<shauno> dolly attacks aside
<zmoylan-pi> you wouldn't download a sheep....
<shauno> diddledan would =x
<zmoylan-pi> yeah... wel... diddledan is odd... even for this channel... :-P
<daftykins> lol
<daftykins> d'aww he's our diddlest dan, you can't take that away from here!
#ubuntu-uk 2015-06-12
<diplo> Morning all
<MooDoo> morning
<popey> morning
<bashrc> g'day
<TheGeek> mornin
<popey> yo
<TheGeek> hoho
<mjayk> good morning
<davmor2> Morning all
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Friday, and happy Peanut Butter Cookie Day! ð
<popey> oooh
<popey> i bought some peanut butter yesterday. I do believe it's peanute butter and banana sandwich day
<JamesTait> Food of kings.
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<bashrc> morning
<brobostigon> morning bashrc
<mapps> morninghm
<brobostigon> morning mapps
<mapps> was at the casino went to go home
<mapps> got a pack of cigs out my bag and a drink
<mapps> and wow
<mapps> #you have drink he knows the deal'
<mapps> nope..im just an alcoholic so i ad it with me
<brobostigon> something is really wrong with bt today, i am getting over 90% packet loss to my vps's, however is working form my phone.
<mapps> i havw bt and virgin:P
<brobostigon> ok,
<popey> level 3 are down apparently
<brobostigon> level 3?
<popey> yes, level 3
<brobostigon> what does it mean?
<popey> they provide internet backbone
<popey> maybe fixed now
<Laney> I haven't noticed any problems
<Laney> guess I am level 3 free
<brobostigon> ah i see.
<davmor2> as some of you may have noticed, the Internet at large is seeing some "bad weather" right now.  This should resolve shortly as the major network carriers route around the problem
<Laney> I see what you did there
<Laney> :)
<davmor2> brobostigon: that was Internet Services announcement on the problems :)
<brobostigon> davmor2: ok, ty.
<brobostigon> the pebble forums seem to work fine.
 * popey wonders when his Pebble will arrive
<davmor2> popey: when you going out next?  I bet it arrives then
<popey> not shipped yet
<popey> so unlikely :)
<davmor2> popey: so when you go out next after it ships :)
<mapps> ;time for russian learning
<mapps> ;D
<popey> probably
<mapps> im spending 10hrs a wek learning laguages
<mapps> no popey i meant im tryin to learn
<mapps> trying to lean spanish and russian
<davmor2> mapps: you trying to out do Christopher Lee?
 * brobostigon tests to see what work and what doesnt.
<davmor2> brobostigon: looking at this most things should be up again now ish
<brobostigon> davmor2: ok, ty.
<mapps> lol
<mapps> nah davmor2
<mapps> im just a simle southener like popey
<mapps> i speakk eng/fenchgeman/arbic
<mapps> so i figure spanish can help
<davmor2> mapps: he was born in London so now you have no excuse :P
<mapps> im gibraltaian mate]
<mapps> no idea what london is
<mapps> ;)
<popey> I'd quite like to learn mandarin
<bujji> how to find load average ...of a syatem
<popey> top
<brobostigon> uptime
<davmor2> htop
<bujji> load average like 0.05 0.12  0.66 what does this mean
<bujji> tload
<bujji> w
<davmor2> bujji: http://blog.scoutapp.com/articles/2009/07/31/understanding-load-averages
<popey> lulz https://twitter.com/TMCorp/status/609167065300271104
<bujji> davmor2:how it will calculate for 1 minute 0.05
<davmor2> popey: just as  well he wasn't on a mountain doing that ;)
<davmor2> bujji: read the article if that doesn't tell you have a search on google there is bound to be an article some where that will give you a lot more info. that was just the first I hit on a google search
<bujji> davmor2:is it based on calculating how many processors running on the system
<bujji> process*
<popey> bujji: no, it's how many processes on average are in the queue for a processor.
<popey> (put simply)
<popey> if you start 20 long running processes and you have 1 cpu, 1 core, then the number will climb very quickly until those jobs complete
<popey> if you have 20 cpus (20 cores) then there will be (more or less) one job per core, so the number won't rise.
<popey> it's a measure of how busy the box is.
<bujji> how can i count processes running on my sysytem
<intrbiz> bujji: ps
<intrbiz> bujji: best results: ps aux
<popey> top tells you
<popey> Tasks: 312 total,   2 running, 309 sleeping,   0 stopped,   1 zombie
<popey> some will be idle
<davmor2> popey: kill the zombie
<popey> or "sleeping"
<intrbiz> can't kill a zombie
<bujji> thats good..
<davmor2> popey: it will try to eat your brainz
<popey> its eating the cpu
<popey> sd_cicero
<popey> well, it was
<bujji> 309 sleeping...how it will calculat for one minute..
<popey> calculate what?
<popey> thats realtime, what's happening right now
<popey> load average is averged over 1, 5 and 15 minutes
<bujji> for one minute and 5 minute the load avg will be calculated right..
<popey> it's calculated, yes.
<bujji> how it will calculate i am asking..
<popey> dunno, look at the source code
<intrbiz> load average is exponetntially weighted moving averages for 1 minute, 5 minute and 15 minute
<intrbiz> as such the 15 and 5 minute values decay slower
<bujji> that i got it.
<davmor2> bujji: http://www.howtogeek.com/194642/understanding-the-load-average-on-linux-and-other-unix-like-systems/
<intrbiz> bujji: load average is really not worth worrying about unless la > # cpus
<intrbiz> ie on a 2 cpu system, a 5 minute load average of 2 mean your maxing out both cpus for 5 minutes
<davmor2> bujji: and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Load_(computing)
<intrbiz> a load average of 10 for 5 minutes effectively means your need 10 cpus to handle the load for that time period
<popey> also the load average isn't a good measure when you can turn CPUs on and off at will, so the maths gets a little fuzzed
<bujji> then what is good measure..
<intrbiz> lno such thing as one good metric
<intrbiz> s/lno/no/
<bashrc> temperature of the server?
<intrbiz> a good person considers a range of metrics, as they measure different things
<bujji> i will come to know this again..))
<bujji> intrbiz:i will let you know
<bujji> bye for now))
<popey> https://www.yahoo.com/parenting/the-type-of-parents-most-likely-to-have-a-child-121212598657.html
<popey> interesting!
<foobarry> are direct messages between 2 freenoders logged ? or possible to log on the server?
<awilkins> foobarry, Reading it, you need DCC CHAT for actually private messages
<awilkins> I think just normal /msg does go through server
<awilkins> As to whether it's logged, I don't know freenode's config / policy on that
<popey> ask Dave
<popey> Apparently D ave is in a field somewhere and so cannot respond.
<popey> Isn't that right Dave ?
<popey> foobarry: dave says "no"
<foobarry> really? thnaks
<foobarry> i had concerns about private chats when both ircers are on the same irc node
<foobarry> node/server
<popey> he said they don't log anything like that
<foobarry> and can't?
<popey> can't what?
<foobarry> its technically possible i guess
<foobarry> if i was on a ircnet server
<popey> if the server was compromised, and someone ran tcpdump, maybe
<foobarry> ok thanks
<popey> np
<foobarry> thats outside the scope of my concerns
<popey> Thanks Dave :)
<foobarry> Dave is awesome
<shauno> this conversation reads like Dave is popey's imaginary friend o_O
<davmor2> I'm here
<awilkins> Are you doing science, and you're still alive?
<popey> heh
<bashrc> science!
<popey> Telegram!
<bashrc> I've not used Telegram. I think it's some Russian thing with a centralised server
<popey> The guy who started it is indeed Russian
<popey> I don't think that makes it a Russian Thing
<bashrc> https://telegram.org/faq#q-can-i-run-telegram-using-my-own-server
<bashrc> over HTTP. That might make it a little more resistant to blocking
<jpds> bashrc: Based in Berlin.
<bashrc> with E2EE, apparently
<davmor2> bashrc: it can have you can also have messages that self destruct too
<awilkins> No such thing as a self-destructing message
<davmor2> bashrc: that wipes it from yours, the recipient and the server
<awilkins> There's messages the app will destroy
<awilkins> But it's an open protocol
<awilkins> That means you can write a client that doesn't respect the self-destructing
<davmor2> telegram for the win
<bashrc> yes, it would be difficult to self-destruct a message, but it maybe could exist in the system for some amount of time before deletion - similar to Bitmessage
<awilkins> One way you could do it is post a message encrypted with a key that is only available online that your client obtains live to read it
<awilkins> But again, nothing stops a modified client retaining the key, or the plaintext
<bashrc> yes
<awilkins> It's the DRM problem - once you provide the client with the key and the content, nothing stops them using it however they want
<awilkins> (eventually)
<zmoylan-pi> it's the same problem that people had back in the days of actual telegrams where people used personal codes as there was no way to ensure security of the communication links
<awilkins> re: telegram : http://security.stackexchange.com/questions/49782/is-telegram-secure
<shauno> I thought someone found a few months ago, that it was leaving decrypted convos on disk after they'd been deleted
<shauno> http://blog.zimperium.com/telegram-hack/
<shauno> it has a cache where they're unencrypted at rest, even after they've been "self-destructed".  and since the primary threat on a mobile is losing the damned thing, "at rest" is a pretty dodgy hole
<sebsebsebb> hello
<bujji> does sym link and hard link takes memory on hard disk?
<daftykins> mere bytes i should think
<bujji> ?
<bujji> hardlink i node number is same right
<bujji> daftykins:symlink does not taking memory
<bujji> hardlink does
<daftykins> makes sense
<daftykins> hard link means 'copy the file here too but link it to the original for changes' right?
<bujji> here why we need of creating hard link files.....in real way ????
<bujji> daftykins:rc3.d directory contains sym link files...thats ok
<daftykins> sorry can't understand you at all.
<bujji> runlevel 3 directory conatains sym link files...
<daftykins> that's a statement not a question
<daftykins> and i'm the wrong person to ask :)
<bujji> usecase ok for sym links over there..
<bujji> why we need creating hard link here..?
<daftykins> too busy to look things up for you i'm afraid
<daftykins> and the language barrier is still an issue
<bujji> are you understanding my question..
<daftykins> no, but as i say i'm too busy anyway :)
<bujji> take your time))
<daftykins> no i can't help you :)
<bujji> let expect from others.
<shauno> hardlinks are a whole different kettle of interesting.  symlinks are like shortcuts.  hardlinks are .. weird
<daftykins> we would probably need to know the task at hand to know which makes more sense
<daftykins> http://bit.ly/1L3ntX4
<daftykins> bah, Â£75 difference between two Lenovo X1 Carbons
<bujji> shauno:use case of hardlink))
<daftykins> cheaper one has a 1080p screen but it's TN... dearer one has a WQHD (2560x1440) but drops to an i5
<shauno> hardlinks are interesting because they're all equal.  if you create a symlink to a file, and then delete the file, the symlink is now useless
<shauno> with hardlinks, if you link to a file, and then delete the original, the hardlink you created still points to the file
<intrbiz> hardlinks are multiple names to the inode, so would likely take space in the dentry
<bujji> intrbiz:inode number for this same for hard link but taking memory i am not understanding here use case
<bujji> intrbiz:hardlink both acts like a original files
<intrbiz> bujji: what do you mean 'taking memory' ?
<bujji> du
<intrbiz> bujji: inode tracks the extends of a file, a hard link, maps multiple names to an inode, it does not duplicate the inode nor the extents
<intrbiz> s/extends/extents/
<bujji> intrbiz:inode is same right
<intrbiz> bujji: ?
<bujji> intrbiz:inode is same for hd link
<intrbiz> bujji: yes, as I said, a 'hard link' is just mutliple names pointing to a file
<intrbiz> bujji: the name of a file is not part of the inode
<bujji> but if we delete original it still there right.
<intrbiz> bujji: when you delete a hard link, the link count of the inode is decremented, when it reaches zero (IE: nothing points to the inode) it will be removed from disk
<intrbiz> bujji: so if you have a hard link to a file, and you remove either the hard link or the file, the data will still remain
<intrbiz> bujji: why all the questions on symbolic / hard links?
<bujji> how to delete hard link..?
<shauno> the same way as any other file.  it's literally the same thing.  this is why the OS actually calls delete 'unlink'
<bujji> intrbiz:run level directories contains sym link files..
<intrbiz> bujji: yes, sym links make more sense for that use case
<bujji> intrbiz:these are pointing to the /etc/init.d services
<intrbiz> bujji: on old distros yes
<bujji> intrbiz:yes,right
<bujji> intrbiz:in the same way hard link use case why wwe need that one
<intrbiz> bujji: hard links are useful in certain situations, for example not wanting the traversal overhead of a symlink and to avoid issues where with a symlink the target can be deleted leaving a dead link
<bujji> intrbiz:not getting
<shauno> time machine is actually an interesting use of hardlinks
<intrbiz> pg_upgrade uses hardlinks too
<shauno> I know y'all meant to hate macs and stuff, but this is all pretty generic to just unix
<shauno> each time it makes a backup, it puts the backup in a timestamp'd folder.  (think, /backups/2015-06-12-2051)
<intrbiz> rsnapshot also makes use of hardlinks
<shauno> then for each file that's unchanged, it hardlinks it to the previous version
<shauno> this way each backup is 'complete', but you don't actually have 10 copies of the same file on disk
<shauno> you have 10 copies of the filename, but they're all using the same actual inodes on disk, so they don't consume 10x the space
<shauno> yeah, I think it's quite similar to rsnapshot.  time machine as a backup mechanism isn't very fancy at all.  the actual 'features' are how well it's integrated into the rescue process; and that they've made it so simple even my mother has no excuses
<intrbiz> opensuse integrates btrfs based snapshot really well into the boot process now
<intrbiz> can just select an older copy of the system to run from grub
<bujji> hardlinks are not applicable for directories right..
<shauno> right, a directory doesn't actually 'exist'
<intrbiz> bujji: nope
<intrbiz> bujji: a directory and a file, are merely names
<bujji> when i execute it is saying that
<shauno> the filesystem is made up of two almost unconnected systems
<intrbiz> directories and files are dentrys, the contents of a file are inodes
<shauno> one is actually storing data; this is just inodes tracking where the contents of a file actually live on disk
<shauno> and then you have the actual organization of sticking names, permissions, directories, namespaces, etc so you can find these inodes
<bujji> ls -id . and cd <dir name> ls -id  .. is having same inode number..?
<bujji> here the hard link applicable for directories ...?
<intrbiz> bujji: hard links are not applicable to directories
<bujji> intrbiz:. and .. are directories right
<intrbiz> bujji: they aren't real directories, '.' just means the current directory and '..' parent directory
<bujji> those are existing right..
<bujji> intrbiz:cd .. in the sense going to parent directory right.
<intrbiz> bujji: cd = change directory , .. = parent directory
<bujji> cd / nad type; ls -id . and then cd opt:and type; ls -id .. both are having same inode number..
<intrbiz> bujji: of course they will
<intrbiz> bujji: /. = / and /opt/.. = /
<bujji> intrbiz:that doesnt mean hard applied for that
<intrbiz> bujji: no
<bujji> hard link
<intrbiz> bujji: . and .. are not real, they do not physically exist, they are a presentation for navigation
<bujji> intrbiz:if i try to delete that one saying can not remove directory.
<bujji> intrbiz:that doesnt mean hard coded..
<shauno> which one?
<bujji> . nad ..
<bujji> and*
<intrbiz> bujji: what are you actually asking?
<bujji> . and .. is having same inode number that means hard applied over there.
<intrbiz> bujji: no
<shauno> hm, directories do appear to have inode numbers.  that's completely not how I understood it  lol
<shauno> bujji: I'm not sure this will help, but you might want to look at 'stat' instead of trying to remember all ls's flags :)
<bujji> intrbiz:then how it can be linked...is that soft link(no) because inode is same
<intrbiz> bujji: its not a link, '.' and '..' do not exist
<bujji> intrbiz:we are changing from directory to directory right
<intrbiz> bujji: ?
<shauno> bujji: what he means is that . and .. don't actually exist
<shauno> like, / is a directory, /tmp is a directory.  /tmp/. isn't a directory, it just *means* /tmp
<shauno> and /tmp/.. isn't a directory, it just means /
<bujji> intrbiz:like...cd /etc/init.d here etc and init.d have some link?
<shauno> it's like, today and yesterday aren't on the calendar.  the 11th and 12th are.  'today' and 'yesterday' are just convenient ways we can reference them
<shauno> the same way, . and .. aren't actually on the filesystem
<bujji> shauno:past u have some actions and present you have some actions you had some link.
<shauno> I mean they're just concepts.  they're not actually things
<bujji> shauno:here present directory you have done some actions and parent directory have done some actions the time stamp will be change if you observe.
<shauno> right, say I'm in /tmp
<shauno> and I touch a file named 'something'
<bujji> okey
<shauno> the timestamp on /tmp has changed.  you can see this with '.' because '.' just means 'here'
<shauno> . hasn't actually changed.  . doesn't actually exist.  but if I look at . I see /tmp
<bujji> cd .. and see current directory.
<bujji> shauno:got it?
<shauno> heh, I've had it for almost 20 years.  I apparently just have no idea how to clearly explain it :)
<bujji> can you recollect))
<intrbiz> bujji: the path '/home/test/..' actually means '/home/'
<intrbiz> bujji: the path '/home/test/.' actually means '/home/test/'
<intrbiz> bujji: the . and .. are used to represent here and parent respectively, the are dealt with when canonicallising the path
<bujji> intrbiz:absolute path
<intrbiz> bujji: statements != questions
<bujji> intrbiz:for example chain link...that does have a link between one after the other right..like /home/test/
<bujji> intrbiz:if we delete "test" there is no link with that.
<intrbiz> bujji: . and .. are not links
<intrbiz> if I remove June 12th from the calendar, the concepts today and tomorrow still exist
<bujji> intrbiz:can you tell me why hard links are not applicable for directories.
<intrbiz> bujji: . and .. are just concepts
<bujji> intrbiz:you are removing there 12th actions
<intrbiz> bujji: directories and files are both merely names.  they exist in a heirarchial tree structure.  internally these names are stored as a dentry structure
<intrbiz> bujji: an inode structure is used to track disk blocks used to store stuff
<intrbiz> bujji: a link maps a dentry to an inode
<bujji> intrbiz:yes
<bujji> can you tell me why hard links are not applicable for directories.
<intrbiz> bujji: because directories are merely an entry in the tree, if you allowed directory hard links, then all sorts of chaos could ensue, such as circular references, etc
<intrbiz> note the inode of a directory merely tracks the disk blocks used to store the dentry structures
<intrbiz> bujji: another issue with hard links for directories would be having multiple parents
<bujji> intrbiz:yes you come to the point now..got it
<bujji> intrbiz:here in linux file system is having single parent right.
<bujji> intrbiz:/
<intrbiz> bujji: / is the Virtual File System (VFS) root yes
<bujji> intrbiz:here you have diff sub directories
<bujji> intrbiz:each and every directory reffered to the parent directory right.
<intrbiz> bujji: a child knows its parent
<bujji> intrbiz:yes,there is a link?
<intrbiz> bujji: the dentry structure has a pointer to the parent dentry
<bujji> intrbiz:how it can be able  point?
<intrbiz> bujji: by pointer I mean C pointer
<bujji> which points to the address of another..
<bujji> intrbiz:if we allow h link... issue with hard links for directories would be having multiple parents here i got the point thanks
<bujji> intrbiz:unclear for . and ..(because of having same i node number)i thought here hard link applied
<bujji> intrbiz:its not allowing me to delete . and .. why so?
<intrbiz> bujji: what directory are you in?
<shauno> if I start crying, please promise not to tell anyone ;)
<intrbiz> ok
<bujji> intrbiz:/home/bujji
<bujji> shauno:?
<intrbiz> bujji: so . would mean remove '/home/bujji' and .. would mean '/home'
<intrbiz> bujji: you'd only be able to remove them if they are empty
<bujji> intrbiz:let me try if they empty
<intrbiz> bujji: but as we've said, '.' and '..' mean here and parent. if you do rmdir on . or rmdir on .. then you remove the directories that represent that
<bujji> intrbiz:not working if i used if they empty "rm -rf ."
<intrbiz> bujji: note no same person would do 'rmdir .' or 'rmdir ..'
<intrbiz> s/same/sane/
<bujji> intrbiz:it saying that "cant remove directory"
<bujji> intrbiz:that does mean
<intrbiz> bujji: if you look at the manpage for rmdir (2), it states that the path cannot end in '.' and will produce invalid error if it does
<bujji> intrbiz:yes,if i use "rmdir ." but i used "rm -rf ." it is saying "rm:cant remove directory"
<intrbiz> bujji: it looks like rm will refuse to remove . and ..
<bujji> intrbiz:yes?
<intrbiz> bujji: yes
<bujji> intrbiz:why?
<intrbiz> bujji: because . and .. and real, so it makes no sense to ask to remove them, so the command ignores the request
<bujji> intrbiz:rm by default doesnot allow to remove directories.
<intrbiz> bujji: if you want to remove directories with 'rm' you need to use recursive '-r'
<bujji> intrbiz:same thing
<bujji> intrbiz:can you give me use case in applying hard link on files.
<intrbiz> bujji: we listed a few earlier, i'm not listing them again
<bujji> intrbiz:can you give me example hard link files in system uses.
<bujji> intrbiz:dfault hard link files in linux machine.
<intrbiz> bujji: not sure of any default uses, hard links are usually sparingly used
<bujji> intrbiz:like sym links there in /etc/rc3.d/?
<intrbiz> ?
<intrbiz> bujji: sym links are alot more common than hard links
<bujji> intrbiz:use case only i can able to get the point.
<bujji> intrbiz:thanks man you make me clear some points.
<bujji> intrbiz:i got understand that hard link not applicable for directories because ( issue with hard links for directories would be having multiple parents) right
<intrbiz> one of the reasons yes
<bujji> intrbiz:and circular references.
<bujji> intrbiz:thanks for your time man bye:)))
<ball> Are "Unity Web apps" intended for Ubuntu on a phone?
<ging> i have an ubuntu server which at the end of booting tty1 just hangs never gets to the login prompt, i can't find any errors and eveyrthing else works, except tty1, anyone have an ideas on what might cause this or where to look?
<ball> Is tty1 an actual serial port or a virtual console on the monitor and keyboard?
<ging> well it's a vm
<ball> What hypervisor?
<ging> kvm
<ball> Ah. I've never used that. No idea how it works.
<ging> i think it emulates a vga monitor, or atleast the way i have it setup
<ging> i can switch to any other tty and they are fine
<ball> That's a curious choice.
<ging> it is so you can connect to it via vnc
<ball> VNC doesn't require a monitor.
<ball> (at least at the server end)
<ball> ...are you saying that it uses VNC to simulate a VGA monitor?
<ball> (and adaptor)
<ging> yeah pretty much
<ball> Wierd.
<ging> it has a vga adaptor a a pci device
<ball> I suppose it made sense to someone.
<ging> seems to be the default way or atleast using virt manager
<ball> Is that really a KVM thing or just something that you've chosen to do in the vm?
<ball> That's pretty "out there".
<ging> i think vmware and virutal box are usally setup similarly
<daftykins> does dmesg or the boot log shed any light?
<ball> VMware isn't.
<ball> I haven't seen Virtual Box in years.
<daftykins> never found it performs the same as vmware personally
<ging> daftykins: not really, i have an identical server and the logs look the same until the point that this one just stops
<ging> the stuff before it stops gives no reall clue
<ball> ging: Is this after you've installed the guest OS?
<ball> ging: Does the OS you're installing have a text install option?
<daftykins> version and kernel version?
<ging> ball: yes it's ubuntu server 14.04
<ball> ging: Did you try the text install?
<ging> Ubuntu 14.04.2 LTS (GNU/Linux 3.13.0-53-generic x86_64)
<ging> ball: i am not having a problem installing it, my problem is with how it boots
<daftykins> is the one that works identical?
<daftykins> ging: there's a -54 kernel now so #1 i'd update at least
<ball> ging: fwiw the first time I tried Ubuntu Server I was disgusted that it used a graphical splash screen. I've mostly got over that but I wouldn't be surprised if it caused issues in some environments.
<ball> ging: I just put it down to me being an old fart.
<daftykins> plymouth on a server is indeed pants-on-head retarded
<ball> What is "plymouth"?
<ging> yeah what is plymouth that may be the issue
<ging> it repeatedly spawns on the one with the issue
<daftykins> is your VM on solid state storage?
<ging> init: plymouth-upstart-bridge main process (200) terminated with status 1
<daftykins> no that's not related
<ging> no it's on a ceph cluster
<daftykins> i don't have a clue what that is :)
<ging> it's an rbd storage cluster
<ball> What is "ceph"?
<ball> Linux is strange.
<daftykins> ok well on fast storage you tend to see the above error due to a timing issue, there are plenty of blog posts around online about tweaking a config to stop it thinking something is broken
<ball> Still, it works well enough on my daughter's PC.
<daftykins> if one doesn't ask too much of things they can often seem great :)
<ging> daftykins: they are almost exactly the same, they are a pair, one is redundant the one with the issue, they have a keepalived script which mounts another drive and starts some services on the primary
<ging> it is like the other one thinks it's not finnished booting because this other stuff hasn't happened, but i don't see why
<daftykins> anywho as i say there's a newer kernel so a dist-upgrade is in order before pursuing that one further
<ging> i think it is my config
<ging> well not mine i didn't build it
#ubuntu-uk 2015-06-13
<ging> i fixed it
<ging> there was a dodgy service which was hanging
<daftykins> where'd it show up, out of interest?
<daftykins> OS X 10.11 allows TRIM support on third party SSDs
<daftykins> well at last ;)
<mapps> hmm]]
<mapps> coudlve been bette
<mapps> got lassed on my way home
<mapps> hm
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<bashrc_> morning
<popey> moo
<bigcalm> Hey kids, what's happening?
<zmoylan-pi> dinner is rotating in the microwave... :-)
<bigcalm> Bzzt
<zmoylan-pi> no, proper analog microwave with a ding
<bigcalm> It'll still bzz
<zmoylan-pi> more of a hum
<bigcalm> I'm in a pub in Liverpool. Watching the world go by
<zmoylan-pi> the scouser part of the world... :-)
<bigcalm> My glass is empty. Who will fix this for me?
<bigcalm> Hi intrbiz
<intrbiz> bigcalm: howdy
<intrbiz> bigcalm: how is the north?
 * bigcalm waves from the Philharmonic tea rooms pub
<bigcalm> It's warm up here
<intrbiz> bigcalm: nice
<penguin42> bigcalm: sorry, you're about 20 miles too far west for me to fill it up for you
<bigcalm> Heh
<bigcalm> Wondering what to spend my monies on other than drinks and a birthday present handbag for my wife
<bigcalm> There is a LEGO shop here...
<intrbiz> bigcalm: drugs and hookers?
<bigcalm> I think that Hayley might disapprove
<intrbiz> bigcalm: well, you never know
<penguin42> The shopping area in Liverpool aint bad
<bigcalm> Yeah. I quite like Liverpool One. We went to Yo Sushi last night. Now have a hankering for it again
<penguin42> bigcalm: They did forget to put a roof on it though which seems a bit odd
<bigcalm> It's an indoor mall outside
<intrbiz> isn't that a market?
<penguin42> no, it's not stalls
<bigcalm> Time for another drink
<penguin42> bigcalm: what are you doing in Liverpool?
<bigcalm> Apparently it's world gin day...
<penguin42> bigcalm: Remember, that doesn't mean you're supposed to drink the whole worlds gin in one day
<bigcalm> Penguin42: my wife when to uni here 20 something years ago. She loves to come back here. So it's just a weekend away for us. Plus I promised to buy her a late birthday present while here. Asked her to keep it under 500 quid. I don't understand ladies handbags...
<intrbiz> bigcalm: sounds like a perfect excuse to go and buy lots of gin
<penguin42> bigcalm: There's a big Hotel Chocolat there as well if that's your type of thing; bit expensive, but cheaper than handbags
<bigcalm> I see
<bigcalm> She still wants the handbag
<bigcalm> We might go to the chocolate place as well
 * brobostigon is trying out sailfish os on his nexus 4 for a longer period with the intention of a review.
<intrbiz> sigh, can't work out if I hate requirejs or not
<penguin42> intrbiz: It's js, you do
<intrbiz> penguin42: :)
<bigcalm> I need to keep walking away from my mifi block
<DJones> bigcalm: Did you get stuck in traffic on the M56 yesterday?
<bigcalm> We came up the A41 A55 M53. No real trouble
<DJones> Right
<bigcalm> What happened with the M56?
<DJones> M56 was chaos for about 4 hours from 3pm, HGV jackknifed & overturned, so if you'd come up the M6 and then M56 through Runcorn/Widnes to scouseland, you;d have gotten stuck
<bigcalm> We for lucky then!
<DJones> yep
<bigcalm> Grr at phone auto correct
<bigcalm> Intrbiz: since I moved my lan from 192.168.1.0/24 to 192.168.2.0/24 my Cisco sip phone has not been able to connect to the sip service. This is even after factory resetting the phone. I can configure the phone via the web interface. Any thoughts?
<intrbiz> urm
<intrbiz> you changed all setting on said phone to reflect new netwok?
<intrbiz> any rules in firewall you forgot to update?
<bigcalm> Phone connects via dhcp
<intrbiz> bigcalm: id you power the phone off and on again?
<bigcalm> Not that I'm aware of. I don't recall having to enable anything for sip
<intrbiz> phone is getting the right address?
<bigcalm> Phone has been powered on and off a lot moving it between lan  over power, network switch and router ports
<bigcalm> Phone is getting the address 192.168.2.105
<bigcalm> Previously it was on 192.168.1.210
<penguin42> bigcalm: Have you got some SIP passthrough configured on a router to pass incoming SIP packets to the old 192.168.1.x address?
<bigcalm> Not that I recall. I really need to take the plunge and move all routing over to the micro server
<penguin42> bigcalm: The important thing to remember about SIP is that it's hopelessly broken; once you've got that in mind it all makes sense
<bigcalm> Ha
<intrbiz> bigcalm: might want to check in your firewall for any inbound rules affecting sip
<bigcalm> Voiper sip clients still works on wife's android phone
<bigcalm> Will do when I get home. Or maybe this evening from the hotel. Got to love these openvpn tunnels ;)
<intrbiz> bigcalm: is that an actual voiper app/
<intrbiz> ?*
<bigcalm> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.zoiper.android.app&hl=en_GB&referrer=utm_source%3Dgoogle%26utm_medium%3Dorganic%26utm_term%3Dzoiper+android&pcampaignid=APPU_1_4l18VdKqB8r1UNncgJgM
<bigcalm> Time to head back to the hotel. It's been fun!
<intrbiz> ok
<penguin42> hmm that's impressive - my dad switched his PC off while I'd started a do-release-upgrade   and it booted fine
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<bigcalm> Slow hotel wifi is slow
<MartijnVdS> it often is
<bigcalm> Or it could be that my laptop is doing too much again
<MartijnVdS> downloading updates in the background?
<MartijnVdS> As a semi-pro wifi installer I can tell you.. getting perfect reception everywhere is *HARD*
<bigcalm> I think they have done well in this hotel
<bigcalm> Dropbox and steam were downloading stuff :)
<MartijnVdS> xD
<daftykins> lol
<daftykins> i saw a review of the amazon FireTV Stick talking about taking it to hotels with you whilst travelling
<daftykins> wow... no courtesy to NOT download to prevent ruining everyone elses service then :P
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: if they set it up right, and have enough bandwidth (and/or proper QoS) it shouldn't be a big problem
<daftykins> true, that
<Nicker> my computer thinks my sony controller is a laptop battery.
<daftykins> o0
<Nicker> im worried that it may f my controller up as it states its discharging my charger
<Nicker> i mean
<Nicker> controller
<Nicker> is it safe to plug in my controller onto the pc if it thinks its a laptop battery
<daftykins> does it *have* a battery?
<Nicker> i think it does... its a sony ps3 controller
<daftykins> can you not be certain by looking at it for a minute?
<Nicker> my computer is not a laptop and the controller has a battery
<Nicker> https://www.dropbox.com/s/chanpmmxqpqyn5n/Screenshot%20from%202015-06-13%2023%3A54%3A50.png?dl=0
<daftykins> yeah it's just behaving like it is one, but it happily reads it's a controller battery
<daftykins> key question... does the controller work?
<Nicker> i dont know...
<Nicker> i think it does work
<Nicker> im just charging it
<Nicker> does anyone know if i accessed the dark web via tor on ubuntu, will it record whatever i do on it like windows?
 * daftykins chuckles
 * penguin42 hands Nicker a candle
<Nicker> no no no, no candle! its suppose to be dark, no one is suppose to see you do your thing
<daftykins> i read a little too much paranoia about Windows in your words
<Nicker> paranoia?! hell no, im a man with a nut
<daftykins> KP or Big-D ?
<Nicker> ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh i dont know KP is so i stick to Big - D. As long as it doesnt affect my nut than its all good
<Nicker> when i see a virus i use me nut to nut it right in the nut
<daftykins> riiiight.
<Nicker> and besides, why would i be a scared when the GCHQ already knows my secret
<daftykins> *rolleyes*
<Nicker> its true, ever since i came to this country i sold myself to it. The queen and her government knows i watched gay porn
<daftykins> none of this is appropriate here
<daftykins> i'm gonna ignore you now.
<Nicker> ah, you must be a patriot
<daftykins> not English, bye bye
<Nicker> your using a server from frankfurt
 * daftykins chuckles
<Nicker> french
#ubuntu-uk 2015-06-14
<bujji> intrbiz:some aystem admin commands to know system performance..?
<bujji> lilo?
<bujji> please any one give me syatem admin related reference..)))
<bujji> system*
<bujji> intrbiz:o/
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<SuperEngineer> sometimes one has to make *really big* decisions like "bacon sandwich now or bacon sandwich later"...
<SuperEngineer> hmmmmmmmmm
<brobostigon> :)
<brobostigon> why not have both?
<SuperEngineer> mmmmmmm -nom, nom!  I do like that idea!
<brobostigon> :)
<czajkowski> aloha
<brobostigon> afternoodlings czajkowski
 * zmoylan-pi has bread and taytos for lunch (not influenced by the aer lingus story at all, at all) :-)
<shauno> heh, I saw that one.  they're not going to win me over that easily!
<zmoylan-pi> more of a king fan?
<shauno> lol, I meant aer fungus
<zmoylan-pi> i know a few ex pats who's pay 3 times the price of ryanair just for that first taste of tayto...
<shauno> easier just to go to sainsburys and buy them, no?
<zmoylan-pi> they're northern ireland tayto... slightly different
<shauno> I should be flying to the states on aer lingus for christmas though.  that'll be different
<zmoylan-pi> yes, you can bring a box of tayto in your checked on luggage :-D
<penguin42> it's an odd world where you hear a bleeping, find it's the washing machine in an error state, look up the hex error code it displays to find it says low water pressure and *then* turn on the tap to find the water is off
<zmoylan-pi> once took me about 6 months to track down a rogue random beep to a smoke alarm that beeped once every 15 minutes to let me know the battery was flat...
<shauno> see, in my head, the washing machine would just send you an email
<zmoylan-pi> no no, in the web 2.0 world it would tweet an emojii
<penguin42> shauno: Well, the thing is, it does have wifi and I could monitor it from my phone if I could be bothered to set it up
<zmoylan-pi> surely you just need to download an app...
<penguin42> well, yes
<penguin42> why can't it just do an SNMP trap?
<shauno> see, I'd love that
<shauno> I have an app for my espresso machine :)
<zmoylan-pi> what you really need is a giant oujia board on the floor and the washing machine spells out messages as it wobbles about the room :-D
<penguin42> shauno: I have an app for my new camera - can take a picture remotely from the camera - but it's pretty crap; only lets you change the zoom and trigger it
<shauno> zmoylan-pi: hah, that's closer to what I have
<shauno> but see, in my head we'd have something central much like we do with a router
<shauno> and your washing machine etc would just advertise itself on the network, and the router would see it and pick up the correct app for it  (something like docker, ubuntu snappy, etc, where it can go grab from the repo something that matches the ident)
<zmoylan-pi> maybe it could spell out messages by nicking black and white socks for 0's and 1's...
<penguin42> shauno: Well that's why I say if it used something like snmp that would kind of work
<shauno> and then we can do everything via this one central point instead of having a different app for everything
<shauno> it just bugs me that everything I have that calls itself smart, operates in a vacuum
<zmoylan-pi> except the vacuum cleaner of course...
<shauno> nah, my roomba doesn't join in eithe r;)
<penguin42> you mean that the washing machine or espresso machine could call in the vacuum cleaner to sort out a spill?
<shauno> but, eg, I put my work shifts into my calendar.  tell my coffee machine when it should turn on & heat up.  tell my lights when they should come on
<shauno> what I can't do is tell my coffee machine that it should turn in 90 minutes before a calendar event, and my lights 60 minutes before a calendar event
<shauno> instead we have the kind of duplication of effort that'd get me fired at work
<penguin42> shauno: Right, because you don't have APIs to the coffee machine or lights; although the lights should be doable
<shauno> (it does actually take 20-30 minutes for the temperature on my coffee machine to stabilize, so at 5am it's a very real concern)
<shauno> I kinda do for the coffee, it's on a belkin wemo outlet.  which is mostly standard protocols beaten and broken until they no longer resemble the standard
<shauno> and my lights are just json over http
<shauno> my gripe is that I shouldn't have to write the glue.  that's not "smart"
<penguin42> ok, so you want some sort of hub application with plugins for each one
<shauno> right
<shauno> I figure something like Snappy where the apps come from a repo
<zmoylan-pi> i think the problem is that if there was a single app/web page/interface protocol every appliance would think it deserves to be #1 from your smart nose hair clippers to you electric pepper grinder
<shauno> that way it's not just "anything on the network can install code on the router".  the devices advertise what they are, and snappy finds something to match from the repo.  that way you only have to trust the repo, not every device that tries to be 'smart'
 * penguin42 notes you wouldn't want to get the electric pepper controls confused with the smart nose clippers
<penguin42> shauno: Well, you should already be able to do something like that with mdns/avahi broadcast to detect stuff
<shauno> sure.  I think all the components are there
<zmoylan-pi> if they all had android apps they could have widgets you arrange on a tablet screen any way you prefer
<shauno> we have the technology.  we've had it for a long time.  what we don't have is vendors with any interest in playing nicely together
<zmoylan-pi> i remember looking at home automation in mid 80s.  red one gizmo that was controlled by 8 bit computer
<shauno> which is what's left the whole thing vulnerable to something like apple's "homekit".  it's going to take someone bigger than the vendors to scare them all into being compatible
<shauno> which, as much as I'm the token apple-lover around here, isn't really the ideal result
<zmoylan-pi> because the world uses different voltages and frequencies it will be very expensive to make a global standard
<shauno> none of that really needs to be standard though.  the individual appliances can do whatever they like, as long as they're capable of sharing back to something sane
<shauno> I don't care if the washing machine uses wifi, bluetooth, zigbee, ethernet.  as long as it can send messages back to the router, and the router can schedule events on the washer
<zmoylan-pi> it's a level of standardisation that will make smart tvs look... easy
<shauno> well, philips (my lights) have already announced they plan to work with homekit
<shauno> if belkin do the same, my issues disappear down an Apple blackhole
<penguin42> shauno: I don't really understand the wifi system thats used for pairing devices
<shauno> for which?
<zmoylan-pi> wps?
<penguin42> yeh
<shauno> the two systems I have both do their own thing
<penguin42> both the camera and the washing machine use WPS I think
<shauno> belkin shows up as an AP when it's unitialized, then you connect to it and direct it to your wifi network
<shauno> and philips just lays claim to the nearest 'homeless' lightbulb when you hit the link button
<shauno> which is a fun process.  "hold the bulb up to the base station and press Link" sounds perfectly sensible
<shauno> until you realise that the bulb has to be plugged in & powered for this to work.  So you end up making offerins of table lamps to your router.
<zmoylan-pi> but it's supposed to be wireless!!! :-(
<shauno> yeah.  it is and it isn't.  the communication is wireless.  the light bulb still needs electricity
<zmoylan-pi> http://notalwaysright.com/?s=wireless
<zmoylan-pi> and good luck holding up your smart washing machine to the base station... :-D
<penguin42> the WPS stuff is more just a pair of devices though rather than to a central hub?
<shauno> I honestly don't have much clue about WPS.  I've only used it to try to link a linksys to another base-station.  and it didn't go well
<zmoylan-pi> getting wifi ap to become wifi extenders can be very hit and miss due to the software installed by the manufacturers
<shauno> in other news, Philae (comet-lander) is awake!  http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-33126885
<penguin42> shauno: https://developer.sony.com/2013/11/29/how-to-develop-an-app-using-the-camera-remote-api-2/  wow
<zmoylan-pi> nasa is now on hold to tech support trying to reset their pin code for philae... :-P
<shauno> penguin42: that's actually a whole lot more than I ever expected from Sony!
<penguin42> shauno: Yeh, lets see if that's the version mine supports
<shauno> I'm not sure anyone expected Philae to come back.  it only worked for 60 hours before it went to sleep.  so waking up 7 months later is awesome
<penguin42> yeh
<zmoylan-pi> no, the stories at the time did say there was a chance it would wake later as it approached the sun and got more light
<zmoylan-pi> it was designed to travel while off to it's meetup with the comet.  so we're getting better at that
<penguin42> tapping big wifi password in using the wheel on a camera isn't fun
 * zmoylan-pi remembers the joy of configuring ancient printers via dip switches which were always in most awkward spot on devices that weighed a tonne and were by the time i go to them manky... :-)
<zmoylan-pi> you would have thought it would be really easy to add a qr code reading bit of software to sony cameras to read wifi codes that way
<zmoylan-pi> copy wifi code to qrcode generator on web, take pic with camera, camera joins network with code
<zmoylan-pi> of course it would also need the wifi ssid but that wouldn't be a biggie
<penguin42> hmm, not sure if that's the way this camera connects to none-phone, I can configure wifi on it, but then it doesn't seem to do much with it except to connect to the base station, if I put it in connect to computer mode it says I need to connect it via USB to configure something which I guess is with the windows app
<zmoylan-pi> that's... helpful...
<penguin42> I suspect this might be slightly too early a camera for that protocol, so it might be easier to look at the phone protocol rather than the computer one
<shauno> that's kinda how the apple watch pairs.  it draws a starfield-type pattern on the screen, then you take a picture with your phone
<zmoylan-pi> it makes more sense to do it that way i think
<penguin42> oh, the phone pairing you install an app on the phone, put the cemera into phone mode and it displays a password that you tap into the phone
<zmoylan-pi> asking humans to type in long random strings of alphanumerics gets less easy the more times it fails...
<zmoylan-pi> bonus points when they use a font that makes 1's and l's so so similar... or's 0's and O's
<zmoylan-pi> compaq used to use a font on serial numbers that made B's and 8's indistinguisable
<penguin42> zmoylan-pi: Ah, that explains why they had to invent the thing where holding down a button would burble the machine serial information so you could hold up the phone to the system
<penguin42> right, given the boiler a bit more pressure, it got upset at losing mains
<diddledan> and I'm back in civilisation
<diddledan> (amazingstoke counts as civil, right?)
<penguin42> going round and round in circles?
<diddledan> of course!
<shauno> I guess basingstoke counts if you've just spent 2 weeks in wales ;)
<shauno> (not that it's much better here.  I went for a cycle yesterday, and after an hour noticed the signs weren't in english anymore)
<shauno> (eg http://i.imgur.com/x7zcSZg.jpg )
<penguin42> shauno: you don't need your passport do you?
<shauno> dunno, they've never asked :)
<shauno> it gets really irish really quickly out that way though.  barna/furbo actually have irish-language requirements for much of their housing (I think 80%?)
<zmoylan-pi> well it is... you know... ireland
<shauno> sure, but there's a slight difference between, say, dublin and the gaeltacht
<zmoylan-pi> the english is better in the gaeltacht :-P
<shauno> than dublin?  that's not setting a high bar ;)
<shauno> so, my entry for "what could possibly go wrong" this week; someone's agreed to take me on as race crew for cowes week.  I've had exactly one sailing lesson so far (and another booked between now & then)
 * zmoylan-pi is reminded of the american general who's plane came down in dublin mountain around wwii.  an irish speaking regiment were training in the area and quickly secured the area.  the general commented later that these guys sure know their codes... :-)
<zmoylan-pi> so technically for the race you'll be ballast....
<shauno> pretty much railmeat, yeah
<shauno> but I'm still stoked :)
<shauno> I literally have a spot because they're one man down for the first two days, so I'm to fill a spot on the roster
<DJones> Hmmh, can;t "run minecraft.jar by right clicking and using "open with java*" option just isn't there
<zmoylan-pi> it's make you more productive feature... :-)
<diddledan> is wily out yet? :-p
<daftykins> trust you to ask
<daftykins> ;D
<diddledan_> ooh, BSOD
<diddledan_> bye me \o
<daftykins> doppelganger!
<diddledan_> it's almost as if there's two of me
<daftykins> which one is faster?
<diddledan_> he was
#ubuntu-uk 2016-06-13
<mappps> hii
<MooDoo> morning all
<davmor2> Morning all
<SuperMatt> morning
<Switches> Morning
<MooDoo> morning davmor2 SuperMatt Switches
<davmor2> MooDoo: morning me owld mucka ow am ya
<MooDoo> davmor2: yeah i'm good thanks :) you?
<davmor2> MooDoo: tired but good thanks
<MooDoo> davmor2: know that feeling, tried to install ubuntu last night on my new server as I was going to play with juju, it failed lol
<davmor2> MooDoo: you didn't pray to the god of rock and roll instead of installs again did you?
<davmor2> MooDoo: how did it fail?
<MooDoo> installed it, booted to a grub rescue prompt, didn't look into it....was a bit late
<JamesTait> Good morning all!  Happy Monday, and happy Sewing Machine Day! ð
 * zmoylan-1i was looking at antique sewing machines in antique shop over the weekend...
<davmor2> JamesTait: pick any old singer https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1RW3nDRmu6k
<Myrtti> ooh. Does that mean I can buy an overlocker today?
<davmor2> Myrtti: technically I guess it is a sewing machine so I see no reason why not :D
<JamesTait> Myrtti, I agree - just don't say I told you to! ð
<Myrtti> well I was given an ok to get one from eBay but it's a lot of money still even if it's secondhand
<davmor2> JamesTait: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=999ph8iRT4o
<zmoylan-pi> i had to step around the sewing machines and typewriters to pick up these little beauties...  https://twitter.com/angryearthling/status/742291895821434881
<davmor2> Myrtti: https://www.sewingmachines.co.uk/products/janome-8002dx/257?gclid=CLzx97zcpM0CFfMW0wodfb4IEg
<Myrtti> davmor2: http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTIwMFgxNjAw/z/WucAAOSw9eVXXCLi/$_57.JPG close-by, not much used, Â£99
<Myrtti> I'm still hesitant :-|
<davmor2> Myrtti: wifey does trust the new singers, prefers janome and I forgot the name of the other one.
<Myrtti> Brother?
<davmor2> Myrtti: Elna maybe
<popey> zmoylan-pi: those binoculars look like they were theived from an opera or theatre :)
<popey> speaking of which, I'm off to the opera at the weekend \o/
<popey> http://www.lamonnaie.be/fr/opera/702/Sweeney-Todd
<popey> only 2nd time in my life going to opera
<zmoylan-pi> according to the box, which they came in they are folding opera glasses. but also sports glasses.  idea for small compact binoculars for my bad eyes
<zmoylan-pi> *ideal
<popey> they look quite natty
<zmoylan-pi> they are a neat little gizmo that i will appreciate...
<davmor2> popey: Rock Opera's don't count :P
<zmoylan-pi> i walk by the sea front a lot and like to look at ships and boats in dublin bay
<popey> shut your face they do
<popey> last opera i saw was in vienna
<popey> i had no clue what was going on :)
<davmor2> popey: yeap that sounds like the opera mostly in a language no one else speaks, you have no idea what they sing about you just piece it together from their actions :)
<zmoylan-pi> read the programme for the plot all geeks know how to read the programme... :-)
<popey> uh, yeah, in vienna it wasn't in en_GB
<popey> also https://www.amazon.co.uk/Tronsmart-USB-C-Standard-Female-MacBook/dp/B011BASJQ4
<popey> i like the photos of that product - 6 pics from every angle
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<popey> davmor2: tried one of those cables on turbo?
<Seeker`> popey: how are the plaits?
<popey> gone
<bashrc> nooooo
<davmor2> popey: Nope I just use the lead provided but haven't ever connected anything other than the pc to it to be honest
<davmor2> popey: I've not had much joy with anything that is mac specific connector wise though.
<Myrtti> pro tip: Netflix has Bob Ross' Joy of Painting :-D
<popey> nah, i dont think its mac specific
<zmoylan-pi> couldn't you just google the plot of the opera...
<popey> ofc
<zmoylan-pi> but then you'd be the rude opera goer with a bright light annoying people around you...
<popey> one of my co-workers did exactly that
<popey> sat and read ebooks through the entire thing
<popey> uncultured swine
<zmoylan-pi> could have been reading joyce's ullysses...
<Seeker`> cow-related word would be better than swine for cow-orkers
<zmoylan-pi> cow-porker?
 * popey sings Uly-seeeeeees
<zmoylan-pi> uly-seeeeees 31...
<bashrc> cowsay cow-orkers
<davmor2> no one else can to the things you do now
<popey> i have the dvd box set here somewhere
<zmoylan-pi> fan flippin tastic cartoon...
<zmoylan-pi> japanese animation which they had to change half way through as the lawyers thought it looked too star wars...
<davmor2> popey: I still preferred battle of the planets, don't know why, but it was a good show
<zmoylan-pi> g-force \o/
<zmoylan-pi> once upon a time... space
<davmor2> oh and starfleet
<popey> yeah, i used to build lego space ships that looks like the crafts from BOTP
<popey> the blue one especially as I had a lot of blue lego
<zmoylan-pi> i built a very very good stingray... in yellow technic lego... which i had a fair bit of
<knightwise> Gforce = Awesome
<knightwise> love the music from BOTP
<zmoylan-pi> that's a *lot* of nokias... http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2016/01/26/the-20-bestselling-mobile-phones-of-all-time/nokia-1100/
<daftykins> wow, i'm impressed by post... got this new iPhone 6 screen already O_O
<zmoylan-pi> hopefully in a package marked 'do not bend, fold'
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> but i thought curved screens had become all the rage!
<zmoylan-pi> didn't someone show a bendy phone recently. a nice idea, wear a phone as a bracelet then straighten it out when you want a phone/tablet
<zmoylan-pi> you'll be trying to watch tv/movies on wonky non straight screens...
<daftykins> :)
<zmoylan-pi> great for sub titles or small text on web pages
<daftykins> such odd gimmickery
<zmoylan-pi> i can see myself making a small tablet with a pi in next year or two and replacing phone with that
<daftykins> i did see an acquaintances' 40" curved samsung at his home the other day, huge room and a tiny thing - i'd advised against 4K at the time but the sales folks persuaded him
<zmoylan-pi> give him a tonne of media in super low res... >:-)
<daftykins> hahaha
<daftykins> so cruel
<zmoylan-pi> it's what i do... :-P
<daftykins> so i need some help cloning today sir, we have the xbox event at 5:30pm and then the Apple WWDC at 6pm
<daftykins> can i handle two streams at once with mute button toggling? we shall see
<zmoylan-pi> some sort of radical recording device...
 * daftykins strokes his chin
<zmoylan-pi> find a microblog someone is updating live from the event so you can have 2 text feeds in front of you with all the info
<daftykins> there's that, but they tend to be so overly verbose and skip the relevant bits
<daftykins> ho-hum, hours to decide ;)
<zmoylan-pi> then you can ignore the waffle and only switch to video and sound when something interesting happens.  _if_ something interesting happens
<zmoylan-pi> no new hardware at the apple jobbie allegedly
<zmoylan-pi> so all about how exciting it will be to offer subscriptions for apps on ios
<zmoylan-pi> rent an app
<daftykins> and renaming the OS since they finally realised it'll be version 10 forever
<daftykins> always good to watch the enemy though
<daftykins> haha, this iPhone 6 home button came off with the smashed glass pieces from around it
<zmoylan-pi> no fingerprints for them...
<daftykins> nah it keeps working fine as long as you keep the original
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/meel4hbdvbm6djf/IMG_20160610_183800.jpg?dl=0
<daftykins> did quite a number on the bottom edge
<daftykins> this is why they can't have nice things!
<zmoylan-pi> and yet i could find no one to repair a damaged nokia... :-)
<daftykins> i'd have had a go!
<zmoylan-pi> i might still have it here somewhere... it stopped a skip with it's screen.  the phone is fine.  the screen is broken.  if i plug it into windows pc running nokia software i can access it's sms, pics and use it via the software...
<zmoylan-pi> probably still has a charge... :-)
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> ugh Apple make their toys so horribly
<daftykins> different length screws in symmetrical positions just to throw you
<daftykins> not sure why i expect any less!
<zmoylan-pi> they don't want non apple people fixing them
<daftykins> a mate in the NY area was telling me that even with their applecare insurance they charge you $75 to change a screen
<daftykins> i bought this one for Â£28 about
<zmoylan-pi> they aren't sitting on a huge pile of money by giving stuff away
<zmoylan-pi> the number of people i see going around with smartphones with huge cracks in the screen is just silly
<zmoylan-pi> but no no, i can't stand using a case...
<zmoylan-pi> one of the reasons i use a dumb nokia.  the universe has to wear case to protect it from the nokia... :-)
<Switches> rofl, best thing so far today http://www.appy-gamer.com/Web/ArticleWeb.aspx?regionid=1&articleid=66457348
<daftykins> just got a phone call with my favourite two words together, "printer" and "wifi"
<knightwise> Aarg
<popey> I was quite chuffed over the weekend I had to do some photo scanning. Lobbed them all in the hopper and ran Simple Scan, it just found the scanner and sucked in all the pics
<popey> Certainly helps to buy the right (supported) printer in hte first place
<popey> Good _lord_ http://www.theverge.com/2016/6/13/11920072/microsoft-linkedin-acquisition-2016
<foobarry> WHAT
<foobarry> mamma mia
<daftykins> popey: very true that, this lady just mentioned using a CD, but she wants it on her iPad... :D
<daftykins> personally i go down the static IP route with printers to reduce the automagic nature, otherwise you get folk having the things IP hop and hope by hostname
<popey> yeah, same
<popey> routers at 1-9, printers at 10-20 and dhcp from 100 up
<popey> (in my house)
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> the routers our telco put out oddly start IP addressing from 192.168.1.106 or thereabouts, quite odd
<daftykins> at least it means no reconfiguring scope before allocating a static device or 100 ;)
<diplo> I really don't get that aquisition, but good luck to them :P
<knightwise> Time to upgrade to "Career 10"
<foobarry> ~deep learning?
<foobarry> linkedin is the biggest privacy issue we don't talk about
<foobarry> because it is voluntary in the hope that one day you might be headhunted
<knightwise> For me its a pretty important network.
<knightwise> there is a LOT you can do on linkedin businesswise
<popey> right, if you're a freelancer / contractor it can be useful.
<popey> or if you don't have a good cv or body of work (like github) you can point to
<popey> but there's a lot of bullshit on linkedin
<foobarry> i am actually looking for a job atm, but have a CV now
<popey> we're hiring :)
<foobarry> i checked
<popey> http://www.canonical.com/careers/all-vacancies
<foobarry> it seems mostly openstacky
<popey> heh
<foobarry> shame that the jobs that seemed availabel about 2yrs ago were really suited to me
<foobarry> but i decided to continue here for a couple of years.
<foobarry> i dislike changing jobs and often try to fix whats broken uinhouse for too long before moving
<Switches> popey being a "recruitment" officer :p, Don't you do enough already matey?!
<Switches> As for MS buying Linkedin, well it kinda makes sense for the "cloud" part atleast Linkedin has that "Share" thing for collaboration. Pair that with what Office 365 offers and you have a pretty compelling "professional" offering.
<davmor2> Switches: popey is doing his job, he's a community manager he saw someone with a need in the community and tried to help out with it :)
<Switches> I know, I'm only messing around. He does a hell of a lot for Canonical/Ubuntu which is much appreciated :)
<popey> awww
<Switches> Hmm http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=NEMO-UX-Goes-Commercial very "minority report"
<foobarry> whats the best filesystem for enterprise SSDs
<daftykins> what do you mean enterprise? i thought those tended to be utilised in a cache context to larger volumes
<foobarry> enterprise grade SSds should fail safer
<foobarry> maybe fail read only
<foobarry> and last longer
<foobarry> i think
<foobarry> they will be in RAID1
<foobarry> but i wonder if journaling is good for wear
<TwistedLucidity> I'm not expert and I guess it will depend on exact usage but Ext4 is meant to be OK, have the partitions aligned (should be easy these days) and (if ultra-paranoid) don't have swap on there.
<TwistedLucidity> Most advice you'll find in ~4 years old and no longer really applies to SSDs. Even consumber ones should last year; unless one does something monumentally silly.
<foobarry> gonna have a prod postgres DB on there on mirrored SSD
<TwistedLucidity> If uyou fancy life on the edge, use BTRFS. :-)
<foobarry> prod :P
<TwistedLucidity> As ever, the ArchWiki has some good info: https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Solid_State_Drives#Choice_of_filesystem
<ging> does anyone know how to get show manual login to work for lightdm on ubuntu 16.04 ?
<TwistedLucidity> As for Prod...I have a customer testing in Prod. Then asking how to clear the test data as it's messing up their actual Prod.
 * TwistedLucidity starts sobbing
<ging> the lightdm config seems to do nothing, and it says at the top if you have AccountService installed on your seystem then lightDM will use this instead
<ging> AccountService seem to be installed by default and i can't find a lot of details on how to configure it
<daftykins> foobarry: hrmm i'm no use then really, don't do anything db
<ging> and removing it seems to just break logins entirely
<TwistedLucidity> ging: You mean your install is automatically logging in as a user?
<TwistedLucidity> And now you want that to stop?
<ging> no
<foobarry> gonna do the defult ext4 with maybe trim
<ging> i want it to allow me to enter a username
<TwistedLucidity> foobarry: Use periodic trim, not continuous
<daftykins> foobarry: sounds good to me, that's the way i'd lean - although i don't think you need to do anything in fstab for TRIM anymore, isn't it all perfectly fine to leave kernel based?
<ging> there is a setting for show manual login
<ging> but i can't make it work on 16.04
<ging> :(
<daftykins> i have no idea what you mean by manual login
<foobarry> discard (TRIM) is disbaled by default
<foobarry> TwistedLucidity: why do you say periodic?
<daftykins> nah i've definitely heard or read that it's a periodic maintenance task done by the kernel regardless of adding discard to fstab
<daftykins> if you did TRIM constantly you'd trash IOPS for the db
<foobarry> got any links to support that ?
<foobarry> to show my colleagues
<daftykins> no, sorry
<TwistedLucidity> foobarry: Read the warning on that ArchWiki page
<daftykins> you need to save garbage collection for idle time
<foobarry> http://blog.toracat.org/2014/07/discard-that-discard-run-fstrim-on-rhel-and-rebuilds/
<foobarry> thanks guys
<foobarry> that was helpful
<ging> daftykins: there is a lightdm option greeter-show-manual-login
<ging> it puts up a text box that allows you to type in a user name, without it you can only select existing ones
<daftykins> foobarry: \o/ no worries
<daftykins> ah so manual login entry, would convey that a bit easier
<daftykins> ouch, TalkTalk customers that got hacked who also use TeamViewer are being targeted and having their PCs remotely accessed
<Azelphur> I was kinda smug when the teamviewer thing happened
<Azelphur> literally days before that started happening, I switched to ArchLinux, ArchLinux doesn't run teamviewerd by default, and I only had it running when connecting to other people. I am immune!
<daftykins> friends i help out i tell to do run only and not install it :)
<daftykins> and ah-har you've become one of THEM now!
<Azelphur> yes...I'm one of them now
<daftykins> all is lost ;)
<Azelphur> hehe
<daftykins> nah i'd imagine being closer to the bleeding edge helps you immensely
<daftykins> for your work and what not
<Azelphur> Yea, I think both OS's have their place
<Azelphur> If you always want bleeding edge, and you want an OS you build from scratch with only the things you need...which means you need to know everything that you need, or you're screwed. ArchLinux is great at that
<daftykins> *nod*
<Azelphur> But for something more user friendly / less setup intensive, Ubuntu is great, I don't think Arch is at all good for servers either.
<daftykins> saw too many folk trying to do these 'minimal' installs with ubuntu and very quickly falling on their asses
<Azelphur> Rolling release on a server, because you totally want your server to break all the time ;)
<daftykins> diddledan does!
<Azelphur> daftykins: I amusingly do run one server on Arch, but it's for things like Emby, Couchpotato, etc...it's nice to have them in AUR and it's not mission critical if it goes down
<daftykins> yeah, horses for courses
 * diplo has started using lxc for new stuff
<davmor2> diplo: lxc or lxd :D
<diplo> lxc
<ging> ah i figured it out, you add the setting to lightdm.conf rather than users.conf and it is no longer ignored
<daftykins> \o/
<SebthreeBQM10HD> hi
<zmoylan-pi> of course ms would buy linkedin... they think it's a social network... :-)
<bashrc> is anything happening to linkedin? I rarely use it myself
<zmoylan-pi> ms just bought it for $26b.
<bashrc> heh. When Microsoft buys a company that's usually the kiss of death
<zmoylan-pi> or thats one app in mobile computing
<zmoylan-pi> linkedin was so uncool they joked about it on 30 rock which ended years ago...
<SebthreeBQM10HD> Come on Sweden beat Ireland!
<dwatkins> for once I'm happy MS have bought a company
<zmoylan-pi> they'll kill it within 3 years and you'll never get another email from them again
<bashrc> they'll probably just integrate it into Windows, or something like that
<zmoylan-pi> it'll be your outlook contacts... with bells on
<zmoylan-pi> it'll be some real name address book from hell
 * popey boots up a mac to watch wwdc
<davmor2> popey: what would Dave cuss?
<daftykins> popey: no capable browser on Loonix? they lifted that limitation last year to HLS capable browsers
<zmoylan-pi> he didn't want to sully his ubuntu laptop with apple news
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> apples event is mostly "hey look at all those totally niche use-cases that are available only when you're locked into every last one of our services"
<zmoylan-pi> i miss a good psion pda over every mobile device made today
<popey> heh
<popey> I thought it worked previously
<daftykins> just last year with edge in 10 preview i think, but i don't think any other browser did it yet
<foobarry> meh, no pi zero yet
<zmoylan-pi> or it arrived and landed under the doormat...
<foobarry> or myherpes are delivering it
#ubuntu-uk 2016-06-14
<mappps> hi;]
<mappps> ugh getting hard to sleep again hot and sticky
<mappps> cant have the windw open.bugs and noise from building outside;/]
<zmoylan-pi> a nice fan to add a breeze to your room
<mappps> they make a noise thuough..tihink thatd take some getting used to!!
<JamesTait> Good morning all!  Happy Tuesday, and happy World Blood Donor Day! ð
<SuperMatt> I've never donated blood
<davmor2> Morning all
<knightwise> morning peeps
<SuperMatt> peep peep chirp chirp
<foobarry> meh emh
<foobarry> can't even spell meh today
<davmor2> foobarry: that's a real meh of a day then
<knightwise> hey SuperMatt , foobarry
<knightwise> About to order a new microphone to re-juvinate my podcasting activities
<diplo> Tis easy to donate blood, must really book myself back in again
<popey> yeah, i haven't done it for years
<popey> My brother did it and immediately fainted :)
<foobarry> is he skinny?
<foobarry> or didn't drink the sugary tea?
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls
<diplo> I started taking a lot of medication so stopped, and tbh the amount of samples they've taken out of me I'm not sure I could have donated any more
<Myrtti> men can and often should donate more than women
<popey> foobarry: yes, tall and skinny
<popey> he walked over, got a cup of tea, sat down and then flaked out
<popey> I'm not allowed to give blood anymore :(
<foobarry> because you went to the USA?
<diplo> I suppose you need it more as you get older :D
<popey> haha
<popey> no, had an undiagnosed heart condition
<foobarry> there's a prevalent idiot virus in the states
<popey> so now they don't want it :(
<foobarry> oh, are you ok?
<foobarry> need to take pills?
<popey> undiagnosed being the key word :)
<foobarry> now fixed? or managed
<popey> neither
<foobarry> haven't shown the doctor?
<diplo> So saftey related, as in they don't want to tax it to much
<popey> yes, again, undiagnosed
<popey> don't know what, no action needed apparently
<foobarry> oh i see
<foobarry> i think
<popey> "Hello, this happens sometimes". "Interest, that could be a or b". "Ok, which is it". "Dunno without capturing it happening, how often does it happen?". "Randomly". "Unlucky". "bye"
<popey> heart goes mad. beats fast, like super fast, can see my chest moving
<diplo> :/ - my condition is also undiagnosed, 3-4 years - 9 MRIs, 2 CT's, cameras everywhere, scans of eyes, electric probes all over my upper body
<diplo> Given up now, just trying to fix it by being healthier, ( Given up smoking ) walk more, cycle more etc and given up bad foods and drink
<TwistedLucidity> popey: That would freak me the hell out.
<popey> yes. that
<popey> can happen any time
<TwistedLucidity> Handy in boring meetings though "Sorry, must leave, might be dying" *run away*
<popey> have figured out how to stop it most of the time. Hold breath and push chest really hard internally. usually does it
<popey> haha
<popey> unfortunately it's never happened in a meeting :)
<popey> but it *might*
 * popey notes
<TwistedLucidity> Sounds like some weird fibrilation thingy; but I'm no cardio-wizard
<knightwise> What exactly happens ?
<TwistedLucidity> I'm imagining that scene from "Alien"
<popey> hah
<popey> heart goes from whatever speed it was, to very fast
<popey> like, instantly
<popey> I've seen it described as a 'short circuit' in the heart
<TwistedLucidity> Some random tissue, salt imbalance of some kind; many things can upset the electrical wave/pace
 * Laney has been trying to call the blood people this morning to make an appointment
<Laney> they don't answer
<foobarry> just turn up
<foobarry> might have changed since i last did it 20yr ago
<foobarry> company advertised awesome job. didn't reply to email or phone call :(
<foobarry> could just be HR that suck, no way of knowing
<foobarry> my dog loves watching shaun the sheep
<foobarry> properly watching. disinterestd in most other programmes
<foobarry> http://i.imgur.com/V0okE83.jpg
<foobarry> he comes in to watch it every day
<Azelphur> Well this is fun, my ISP is threatening to terminate my connection, telling me I'm seeding certain copyright torrents. Funny part is while I do torrent, The stuff they are accusing me of is completely untrue
<Azelphur> Tempted to call back and find out the company making the accusations so I can go after them
<TwistedLucidity> Go after them for what?
<Azelphur> My first thoughts would be harassment and possibly entrapment
<Azelphur> and maybe computer misuse act
<Azelphur> at the very least harassment applies, making false accusations in order to have my connection terminated isn't good
<TwistedLucidity> If they are invoking the DMCA (or the EU equivalent) then you don't have a leg to stand on I'm afraid, there is no defence against false accusations
<foobarry> it's probably based on IP
<foobarry> maybe a previous user of that ip address
<foobarry> or are you on ipv6 only?
<TwistedLucidity> All they'll say is "Oh, we have a reasonable belief it was infringing..." and that's that.
<Azelphur> foobarry: nope, the accusations are timestamped
<foobarry> checked your logs? maybe neighbours?
<TwistedLucidity> foobarry: Which is why the ISP should be checking the IP against the time of the infringement
<Azelphur> TwistedLucidity: loss of income could be another one :)
<Azelphur> foobarry: I don't think there's much log wise I can check? I have a router running AsusWRT-Merlin, no dodgy connected clients
<Azelphur> Unless someones broke the WPA2 and is mac spoofing or something
<foobarry> seems unlikely
<TwistedLucidity> Most likely: 1) False positive; or 2) ISP dropped a clanger when matching IP to time
<Azelphur> Indeed it does
<Azelphur> TwistedLucidity: It could well be option 2
<Azelphur> basically, they accused me of 4 different infringements, but I only know the details of two of them
<foobarry> nobody's perfect
<foobarry> far from it
<TwistedLucidity> I'm so close to it, it's terrifying
<TwistedLucidity> :-P
<Azelphur> The first, Terminator Genesis supposedly on the 9th. Yes, we did download Terminator Genesis...6 months ago, it's no longer in our client and hasn't been since then
<Azelphur> The 2nd, Batman vs Superman 2016. No idea what they are even on about, never downloaded it.
<TwistedLucidity> Oh...legit or not legit?
<Azelphur> TwistedLucidity: as I say I do download stuff, just not the stuff they are accussing me of :)
<Azelphur> for now I've shut the torrent client down period though, I'll run it on a server elsewhere
<foobarry> is there an EU DMCA?
<TwistedLucidity> foobarry: Yes, forget the name
<Azelphur> Copyright Directive?
<TwistedLucidity> Azelphur: Torrent has legit uses (e.g. distros). I don't use it as Virgin seems to detect torrents and hammer the connection
<Azelphur> TwistedLucidity: indeed it does :)
<TwistedLucidity> "Electronic Commerce Directive" I think
<Azelphur> It's worrying though as I say, we got one notice and I went into "Ok, time to stop torrenting movies mode" then we got another two when I'm not doing anything, fun times :P
<TwistedLucidity> OK, there is now an option 3) They have you bang to rights, but misquoted what they caught you for.
<TwistedLucidity> So...sorry, I don't think you have a leg to stand on here. Lay low for a while.
<davmor2> JamesTait: missed todays topic you must of logged on when I had to reboot :) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CqmKbhIcTn0 I think covers it though :)
<foobarry> you have an option to blame the correct ones on a guest, and you don't recognise the other ones, but say it won't happen again
<foobarry> lots of movie companies send direct mail to our security guy when students download stuff
<foobarry> e.g. paramount
<foobarry> checks the helpdesk
<Azelphur> yea, plenty of options
<Azelphur> but as I say hopefully no more torrenting puts a stop to it
<foobarry> Initial Infringement Timestamp: 06 Dec 2014 19:05:50 GMT
<foobarry> Infringers IP Address:
<foobarry> Protocol: BitTorrent
<foobarry> Infringed Work: Sweeney Todd
<foobarry> Infringing File Name: Sweeney Todd (2007) 1080p BrRip x264 - 1.7GB - YIFY
<foobarry> etc
<Azelphur> Yea, I have the same stuff
<foobarry> we don't get cut off
<foobarry> but the students testicles are
<diplo> We had one at work the other month, only 2 of us here, static IP, never heard of the thing they were accusing us of downloading
<diplo> Had to google it
<Azelphur> yea, I've heard there's a high error rate
<diplo> Had the same IP for 2 years +
<Azelphur> http://pastebin.com/7Y8rEC8p are the two I have
<Azelphur> they actually blocked my connection this morning, had to call them and speak to them
<diplo> Hindi+English, why would you download Hindi + English, I'm assuming there are plenty of non Hindi versions
<zmoylan-pi> he wants to see shakespeare in the original hindi of course... :-P
<diplo> Does sounds like something is wrong, and 493mb seems rather small :)
<Azelphur> indeed
<Azelphur> Give me a telling off for things I've done, fair enough. Cut my internet off after I've stopped for things I haven't done? not cool :<
<TwistedLucidity> Another option is that something you are hosting has become compromised.
<Azelphur> Indeed an option, I did a ps aux on all my boxes and couldn't find anything that seems like it
<popey> 13:47 < Azelphur> The first, Terminator Genesis supposedly on the 9th. Yes, we did download Terminator Genesis...6 months ago, it's no longer in our client and hasn't been since then
<popey> ^ nice public log
<Azelphur> popey: heh, indeed :)
<TwistedLucidity> Wordpress, owncloud etc
<popey> Your credibility is lost when you post stuff like that
<popey> wahh waah, my connection, I'll sue
<popey> "yeah, I did do that"
<popey> zero sympathy
<Azelphur> popey: heh, personally I'm a fan of being punished for the crimes you committed as opposed to the ones you didn't, but each to his own
<popey> you *just* admitted to it
<popey> whether their ip / date was right or not, you still admitted it
<Azelphur> no, I specifically said the events they are accusing me of did not happen, in fact the infringement they terminated my connection for did not happen, ever, it's not just that the timestamp was wrong, it's that it simply didn't happen
<TwistedLucidity> If that's true; stand your ground and argue your case. Just don't admit your /other/ infringements whilst doing so
<Azelphur> indeed
<Azelphur> that's my best move really
<TwistedLucidity> And, also, stop it
<Azelphur> TwistedLucidity: I stopped it weeks ago, before the last two accusations dropped in
<Azelphur> the connection is back too, they asked me to audit my network, don't see anything untoward in the router
<Azelphur> and I've checked all my machines aren't running any torrent software
<Wobbo> I am not sure how to say about a irritating thing. It is about the titles of app. It about missing information if a app is opened full screen or not. I made to screenshots: http://pasteboard.co/1FZbEjgZ.jpg | http://pasteboard.co/1FZdBZ5j.jpg I have this problem widht stuff like  Chrome, Geany, Aptana, Gimp... I hape someone kan help me.
<Azelphur> TwistedLucidity: as for ownCloud compromises and such, all my services run in isolated kvm and everything in netstat is accounted for
<Azelphur> odd things :)
<TwistedLucidity> I need to get fail2ban running on mine.....
<Azelphur> no more torrenting anyway, hopefully this is the end of it
<TwistedLucidity>  What grates my carrot is that I'd like to run a wee seedbox for various distros, but I can't as my ISP would murder the connection.
<Azelphur> TwistedLucidity: my ISP is quite nice, no blocking or shaping, which is cool
<TwistedLucidity> Mine at least publishes their throttling thresholds. Maybe I can wort out how to use QoS (or something) to ensure I stay below them
<Azelphur> TwistedLucidity: I want to get a box from kimsufi if I can
<Azelphur> unlimited bandwith, I'd seed all the Linux ISOs :)
<TwistedLucidity> Seed "Big Buck Bunny" and the other Blender stuff too. Bound to be more media that's legal to share.
<Azelphur> TwistedLucidity: yea, there's lots of good stuff, I liked Pioneer one
<foobarry> We've accepted your order, and we're getting it ready. A confirmation email has been sent
<foobarry> pi zero still hasn't been shipped
<foobarry> maybe they don't actually have any after all
<SebthreeBQM10HD> ff
<SebthreeBQM10HD> QUESTION: WHere would the two of you from Florida llive  if outside of the US and why?
<SebthreeBQM10HD> whhops wtrong chan
<niks> \join #lad
 * diddledan__ sneaks in the back door
 * zmoylan-pi is notified by pir unit and turns on night vision goggles...
<diddledan__> http://news.rhapsody.com/2016/06/14/rhapsody-becoming-napster/
<daftykins> :>
<diddledan__> the twitters are saying it must be april fools' day
<zmoylan-pi> russian april fools day
<diddledan__> so apple did something yesterday and the internets melted, right?
<zmoylan-pi> apple did something yesterday and the world went 'meh'
<daftykins> which is normal for Apple :D
<daftykins> the shark was jumped
<zmoylan-pi> ms buying linkedin seems to have been the bigger story
<diddledan__> siri on the mac. whodathunkit
<diddledan__> aye the ms news made the national telly
<zmoylan-pi> whereas siri on the mac desktop didn't? the shock!
#ubuntu-uk 2016-06-15
<MooDoo> morning all
<diplo> Morning all
<dwatkins> mornin' all
<MooDoo> morning
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<corenominal> morning
<brobostigon> morning
<popey> yo
<brobostigon> meep
<MooDoo> :)
<JamesTait> Good morning all!  Happy Wednesday, and happy Nature Photography Day! ð  ð¦ ð ð  ð¸
<SuperMatt> Morning all
<SuperMatt> I think I get to present my first project to the team today!
<MooDoo> yay, what is it
<SuperMatt> it's a one time pass method for ssh
<SuperMatt> using an application called vault
<Myrtti> popey: remember when I complained how the software updater tells me to use apt-get clean to free space? http://imgur.com/a/LIsg0
<popey> aha! excellent
<Myrtti> I suppose it's factually correct
<Myrtti> in theory that might work
<Myrtti> just that it doesn't
<popey> not for full /boot
<Myrtti> no
<popey> it will for full /
<popey> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/update-manager ã
<popey> willcooke: ^
<Myrtti> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/update-manager?field.searchtext=%2Fboot&search=Search&field.status%3Alist=NEW&field.status%3Alist=INCOMPLETE_WITH_RESPONSE&field.status%3Alist=INCOMPLETE_WITHOUT_RESPONSE&field.status%3Alist=CONFIRMED&field.status%3Alist=TRIAGED&field.status%3Alist=INPROGRESS&field.status%3Alist=FIXCOMMITTED&field.assignee=&field.bug_reporter=&field.omit_dupes=on&field---
<Myrtti> .has_patch=&field.has_no_package=
<Myrtti> bah
<Myrtti> well. 12 bugs on my search
<Myrtti> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/update-manager?field.searchtext=%2Fboot
<Myrtti> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/update-manager/+bug/1183692
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 1183692 in update-manager (Ubuntu) "Not enough disk space for kernel security update on /boot" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<Myrtti> good few duplicates
<Myrtti> annoying as I thought that this was already automated and made the /boot quite small to save space on my SSD
<Myrtti> and now I have to clear the old kernels after every security update :-<
<Myrtti> well, every other
<popey> :(
<foobarry> old kernels are supposed to get removed but occasionally it gets stuffed up for some reason
<zmoylan-pi> to remind linux users of why the command line is important :-)
<brobostigon> any computer user for that matter, fundemental knowledge is good, :)
<zmoylan-pi> and adds to geek cred when you do all your computing from console... :-)
<Myrtti> you're telling me I'm doing it wrong with synaptic?
<brobostigon> or you decide to do mathematics from a python console.
<zmoylan-pi> synaptic is ok if you're updating your linux system with mouse while on coffee break... true multitasking... :-)
<brobostigon> isnt that what tmux is for? multitasking.
<zmoylan-pi> multiplexing AND multitasking...
<brobostigon> :)
 * zmoylan-pi puts kettle on for tea break
 * brobostigon gets out the green tea ready.
<foobarry> wow, so much misinformation and sloopy journalism about permier farnell
 * zmoylan-pi rummages in cupboard for aldi generic penguin bars... http://www.foodstufffinds.co.uk/2014/04/aldi-seal-bars-chocolate-biscuits.html
<foobarry> http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/markets/article-3641463/Another-British-tech-triumph-foreign-hands-Raspberry-Pi-computer-maker-Premier-Farnell-bought-Datwyler-Holding.html
<Myrtti> zmoylan-pi: I just get frustrated by trying to find the bits I need to remove with any other tools
<zmoylan-pi> i think it was first thing i installed when i first played with my rasp pi.  a nice gui to find/install/remove apps.
<Myrtti> ahhahhahahhaha you know what's super funny
<Myrtti> I just realised I've not rebooted since the last kernel update
<Myrtti> :-<
<zmoylan-pi> it's not windows with random and constant non optional reboots you know :-)
<Myrtti> so I can't remove the old kernel with synaptic because I'm actually using it
 * Myrtti facepalms
<zmoylan-pi> could be worse, it could force it's removal... like sawing off a branch you're sitting on... :-)
<foobarry> strace now has -y option to see what file is being read/written.
<foobarry> awesomes
<popey> yeah, that's dead handy
<foobarry> and -yy
<foobarry> http://jvns.ca/blog/2016/06/07/strace-y/
<foobarry> gonna rebuilt that for centos
<MooDoo> :)
<BigRedS> foobarry: Oh! I peer in here for the first time in months and see a solution to a problem I didn't realise anyone else had. thanks!
<foobarry> :)
<davmor2> man that's not good we are only meant to be here to hinder not help damn it ;)
<foobarry> where did you go BigRedS
<bamboobear> hey &_&
<davmor2> bamboobear: hello
<bamboobear> How's it going ^_^
<davmor2> meh
<davmor2> and you
<bamboobear> Not too bad. feeling a bit crappy today as I've been rushed off my feet for almost a month straight haha :)
<Myrtti> oooo Radiohead's In Rainbows on Spotify, finally
<davmor2> Myrtti: ooooo get you and modern music ;)
<Myrtti> well I can't listen to Elton John's 70s stuff, Beatles and Joni Mitchell all the time either
<popey> just sparked up spotify and New Order, Blue Monday came on, so volume to â£¿â£¿â£¿â£¿â£¿â£¿â£¿â£¿â£¿â£¿ 100%
<davmor2> Myrtti: why? /me head explodes as the can not compute loop goes into overdrive
<davmor2> popey: \m/
<bamboobear> Of course, Blue Monday should NEVER be played at anything less than 75% (you know... cos some speakers just explode sometimes haha)
<Myrtti> because after 20 years of repeat listening it stops being as stimulating
<popey> yeah.
<popey> a song came on yesterday which gave me goosebumps and i cant for the life of me remember what it was or when I last heard it
<popey> you lose that when you listen to them all the time
<davmor2> popey: follow up blue monday with gangsters paradise
<popey> I dont choose next song :)
<popey> the spotify elves do that
<davmor2> no I choose it for you :P
<popey> hah
<popey> you're no elf
 * davmor2 selotapes his ear tips and holds a bow and arrow 
 * Switches Has a Nightelf in WoW does that count?
<popey> http://www.last.fm/user/popeydc as you can see, spotify chosing some odd tracks :)
<davmor2> popey: I can go with the first 3 they're all similar but yes?
<popey> love yes
<popey> it was a break-up song for me uh... nearly 20 years ago
<popey> wow, I'm old
<davmor2> popey: even oldererer than me so that is ancient :P
<davmor2> popey: yes is a great track just doesn't really gel with the upbeat other songs :)
<popey>  ð
<popey> not upbeat, but loud
<davmor2> popey: I'm surprised they didn't go with Sonique It Feels so Good then follow it up with weapon of choice then maybe switch over to Moby porcelain
<davmor2> popey: just sayin'
<davmor2> popey: and of course everything leads back to Zombie in the end
<BigRedS> foobarry: changed desks, couldn't have IRC open all day
<BigRedS> well, and I stopped using Ubuntu, but that's not really a reason to stop hanging out in here
<popey> hello BigRedS, not seen you for ages
<BigRedS> Ah, hello! Yeah, I ended up with a fairly overlooked desk
<popey> heh
<daftykins> BigRedS: which dark side have you moved to?
<diddledan__> use the sauce
<BigRedS> daftykins: only back to debian
<diddledan__> blashpemer!
<BigRedS> was crunchbang, now bunsen labs. Unity annoyed me, and bunsenlabs really really didn't :)
<diddledan__> :-p
<BigRedS> haha
<bashrc> nowt wrong with debian
<diddledan__> at least it's not suse
 * diddledan__ ducks
<bashrc> or arch
<BigRedS> haha, our resident arch fanboi jabbered me earlier to say that the font's drawn him back to Ubuntu and he quite likes it now
<popey> We love all distros :)
<diddledan__> is bunsenlabs pretty out-of-the-box with loads of ott eyecandy though? if not then it's not worth looking at :-p
<popey> ahem https://insights.ubuntu.com/2016/06/14/universal-snap-packages-launch-on-multiple-linux-distros/
<BigRedS> diddledan__: it has no wobbly windows, which is a major issue
<diddledan__> popey: yeah I saw the headline but haven't had a chance to read about it yet
 * BigRedS echoes diddledan__ . Sounds really good (and hilariously overdue) though
<diddledan__> yeeks : Snaps now work natively on Arch, Debian, Fedora, Kubuntu, Lubuntu, Ubuntu GNOME, Ubuntu Kylin, Ubuntu MATE, Ubuntu Unity, and Xubuntu. They are currently being validated on CentOS, Elementary, Gentoo, Mint, OpenSUSE, OpenWrt and RHEL
<diddledan__> that's a lot of namedropping
<bashrc> snaps on all the things!
<BigRedS> yeah, though it seems cheeky to list all the *buntus separately :)
<diddledan__> aye
<bashrc> tinycore?
<bashrc> font lurve
<foobarry>  BigRedS i got a 3M privacy filter for meetings. my colleagues are so jealous
<ali1234> foobarry: i thought you were making a joke about sticking a post-it note on your webcam
<ali1234> but no... http://solutions.3m.co.uk/wps/portal/3M/en_GB/3m-privacy-and-protection/-/
<daftykins> :D
<foobarry> yeah a polaroid for my screen. evokes much more jeaousy than it should
<foobarry> but it lets me do anything during meetings
<ali1234> unless someone else has sunglasses?
<foobarry> although my meeting attendance is only at around 2 per week max at the moment because i'm a getting things done kind of guy
<popey> just put a post-it on my webcam and opened cheese to test. http://imgur.com/KU7vg6m
<foobarry> also got it for free :D
<popey> I might enter that in an ubuntu wallpaper contest
<ali1234> lol
<daftykins> i heard you can use filters to get around a lot of common 'mods' :)
<diddledan__> popey: you forgot to censure it
<foobarry> the viewing angle is something like 15 degrees from the centre pt
<foobarry> i keep forgetting while demoing stuff to ppl
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> so you can't even rest your head in your chin to the side!
<daftykins> er, head in your hand :|
<foobarry> lol
<daftykins> yes, us our islanders are built funny ;)
<foobarry> hoping to watch the england match tomorrow
<foobarry> someone arranged a conf call and app upgrade for the aftenoon though
<foobarry> how would i approach finding similar named files in a directory?
<foobarry> lets say i had Douglas Adams, Hitchhikers guide to galaxy
<foobarry> and The Hitchhikers guide to the galaxy, Douglas Adams
<foobarry> etc etc
<foobarry> multiple copies of various files
<foobarry> a kind of fuzzy search that finds matches on longer words
<foobarry> hmm perl has a fuzzy module, somebody must have done this already.
<ali1234> i would do something like split each filename on alphanumeric characters, put the result into a set, and then compare every pair for matches
<foobarry> good idea
<ali1234> fuzzy search might not get your example, it's more about misspellings
<ali1234> but for that there is mgrep
<foobarry> or arrange each word alphabeatically
<ali1234> or is it agrep?
<ali1234> putting them in a set kind of does that
<ali1234> in python... sets are the fastest way to compute "how many in set a are in set b?"
<ali1234> internally they items are hashed into some kind of order (not exposed, but still speeds up the operation) - this is in contrast to a list
<SebthreeBQM10HD> hi
<foobarry>  The Tempest- William Shakespeare.mobi
<foobarry> Shakespeare, William - The Tempest.mobi
<foobarry> William Shakespeare - The Tempest.mobi
<foobarry> lol
<ali1234> they would all match 100% under my proposed scheme :)
<foobarry> calibre has a dupe finder
<ali1234> to be honest unless you have like a million books it would be easier to do it by hand than to write a new piece of software to do it
<foobarry> aha
<foobarry> lets see if hashes are the same
<foobarry> bingo
<ali1234> there are a few apps that will do that for you
<ali1234> but strangely none of them seem to be packaged in ubuntu
<ali1234> also i forgot what they are called
<ali1234> i remember finding one that will just replace dupes by hardlinks
<foobarry> http://doubles.sourceforge.net/
<ali1234> i don't think that was the one i used, but there are lots
<foobarry> ugh it doesn't work anyway
<foobarry> bash script ahoy
<foobarry> ah, fdupes
<ali1234> that sounds familiar
<foobarry> OSS is awesome
<m0nkey_> wtf?
<m0nkey_> 16.04 server doesn't come with nfs-common pre-installed?!
<daftykins> don't think 14.04 did either
<m0nkey_> what sort of a world are we living in?!
<daftykins> one lived online sir, one lived online
<daftykins> oh any news on your PC btw?
<daftykins> i forget what form of machine it was
<m0nkey_> no
<m0nkey_> not tried since
<daftykins> ah
#ubuntu-uk 2016-06-16
<maps> hi all
<maps> hmmm what film to watch
<maps> london has fallen or eye in the sky hms
<MartijnVdS> sound of one, picture of the other
<maps> lol
<knightwise> good morning
<MooDoo> well for any one wanting to play with nextcloud on ubuntu 16.04LTS server, let me tell you it's bloomin easy to install with snap :)
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<MooDoo> morning brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo
<SuperMatt> morning all
<MooDoo> morning SuperMatt hows the job goinf?
<SuperMatt> It's going well, finally managed to tackle OS X, and beat in to the kind of submission that gives me a semi-decent workflow
<SuperMatt> although part of me is thinking of aliasing bash on this thing to "docker start supermatt/bash"
<SuperMatt> and have a real command line
<MooDoo> hehe :)
<SuperMatt> though really I've just got zsh and oh-my-zsh to fill all the painful gaps left by Apple's refusal to upgrade bash beyond version 3
<MooDoo> hehe
<davmor2> Morning all
<foobarry> anyone had dealings with pimoroni?
<Myrtti> why?
<Myrtti> I believe we have
<foobarry> bought a pi zero on saturday, nothing arrived and no response to my emails
<Myrtti> oh. Do you have a Twitter account?
<foobarry> yep
<Myrtti> complain there :-P
<Myrtti> (I've not emailed them ever, just used Twitter. altho mine was just a 'look what I've done')
<ali1234> i ordered a pi zero yesterday evening, they are back in stock now
<ali1234> you probably encountered a glitch on their website
<ali1234> i told you so :)
<foobarry> lolz
<ali1234> or maybe they'll ship it out to you now
<ali1234> i dunno
<foobarry> if they oversold they should just tell me
<ali1234> they didn't sell out instantly this time so they'll probably honour your order if you bug them
<foobarry> just tweeted them as per Myrtti advice
<ali1234> they haven't oversold, they still have stock
<ali1234> they probably didn't have stock on saturday though, hence why you have not got one yet
<foobarry> they may have done on saturday
<foobarry> altohugh i like the look of the chip for $9
<foobarry> includes wifi , bt, etc
<ali1234> well yeah i mean they might have had none at all
<foobarry> must be a loss on that
<ali1234> i ordered a chip in january i thnk
<ali1234> pi 3 was released since then... its better i think
<ali1234> apparently they did have a batch up last friday
<JamesTait> Good morning all!  Happy Thursday, and happy Fresh Veggies Day! ð
<davmor2> JamesTait: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8XbT0QHYKAA  you're welcome
<zmoylan-pi> thing that makes the chip more interesting is the pda case they plan to release for it
<knightwise> morning peeps
<davmor2> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZFqyAhvQWc thanks to JamesTait and fudgeday it led to this and I realised I remembered them all :(
<JamesTait> Nope, not going there.
<JamesTait> I already feel old enough, thank you.
<MooDoo> oh dear
<TwistedLucidity> foobarry: I like the look of the PocketCHIP. So very tempted...
<davmor2> 70's ads for car oil because men were manly back then and looked at their car engines rather than looking at the piece of plastic on top of one nowadays :D
<TwistedLucidity> davmor2: Thanks. I have realised I am now closer to retirement than I am to my memories of those adverts.
<TwistedLucidity> I would be more forthright, but this channel if meant to be family-friendly. :-P
<davmor2> TwistedLucidity: don't blame me JamesTait started it
<MooDoo> davmor2: I know why ubuntu doesn't boot now, it can't handle drive sizes of >2tb on non uefi hardware...
<MooDoo> davmor2: sorry boot drive sizes of greater than 2tb
<TwistedLucidity> What?
<davmor2> MooDoo: stop trying to use ntfs already :P
<TwistedLucidity> MooDoo: Is that an Ubuntu limitation, or something kernel-y that affects most distros?
<davmor2> MooDoo: also use 64bit :P
<TwistedLucidity> Or maybe GRUB-y?
<MooDoo> TwistedLucidity: don't think so, think it's a limitation of BIOS vs uefi
<Switches> TwistedLucidity: It's actually neither, it's an MBR limitation and using GPT on non-UEFI systems can be a bit sketchy
<MooDoo> davmor2: shush
<MooDoo> Switches: that what i meant lol
<MooDoo> guess it's use a small boot drive, then create another partition
<Switches> If you run Windows is where the problem is as Windows can't boot from a GPT disk prior to (Windows 8 i think it was)
<TwistedLucidity> Switches: Ta, good to know when space gets tight on the home server (I had been considering 4TB drives)
<davmor2> MooDoo: oh you mean you don't partition your drive well I have no sympathy then :P
<MooDoo> it's wierd though as vmware esxi works fine as it's software gpt so sees it all :) which is what i'm uding at the moment
<MooDoo> davmor2: bah humbug
<Switches> Tbh as long as your Bios can see the full size and you don't run Windows you can just use GPT with a small "boot" partition at the start of the disk flagged as "bios_grub"
<MooDoo> Switches: yes i've just read about that.
<Switches> Well thats wrong actually it's not really a "boot" partition just a blank space marked for Grub to fake a EFI loader
<MooDoo> not sure it's worth the hassle when I can just run a ubuntu vm [in my situation any way]
<TwistedLucidity> So it's not the physical drive, but whatever partition you're trying to boot from?
<Switches> It depends tbh, if the VM has hardware passthrough and VT-x/VT-d imo it's pretty much worthless trying it on baremetal, if it lacks passthrough and either of the VT's then the performance suffers
<Switches> Well kind of TwistedLucidity the problem is the way MS products read a bios with larger than 2tb drives
 * TwistedLucidity checks channel
<Switches> or well really it's how any OS handles bios calls
<Switches> an original "bios" normally can't handle disks larger than 2tb, so the bios manufacturers kinda use a "firmware" fix for it to see them, that causes issues with MBR on the disks and things go all weird arse
<MooDoo> stupid old computers lol
<Switches> :D
<Switches> That too MooDoo
<MooDoo> I have a dell 2950 with 6 disks that's a 4.5TB raid 5 might have a play about
<davmor2> MooDoo: Stooopid sysadmins not partitioning I blame :P
<MooDoo> davmor2: I'll just raid 1 2 x drives and then raid 5 the rest ;) lol
<MooDoo> :)
<popey> Myrtti: TIL: sudo purge-old-kernels
<Myrtti> ooh.
<Myrtti> ah, part of byobu
<SuperMatt> ok, maybe changing the date on my PC forward a couple of years was a bad idea...
<SuperMatt> must only do that sort of thing in vms
<MooDoo> lol
<Switches> xD
<SuperMatt> every thing I was using suddenly broke because certs were no longer valid
<Myrtti> ahhahahhahaha I just purged kernels out and now I have to do it again
<Myrtti> sweet jebus
<Myrtti> ok, I'll reboot again then
<Switches> Just don't put 2038 in.. the world will end!
<SuperMatt> hah
<ali1234> hmm... i never realised there's so much meat for sale on ebay
<ali1234> i wonder how they deliver it
<zmoylan-pi> by general post... even the toughest steak is very tender after that... :-)
<zmoylan-pi> i've heard a few americans describing getting packages packed with dry ice
<popey> I have had meat delivered
<popey> in a cardboard box with loads of packing and ice blocks.
<popey> it's rated to stay frozen for 24 hours on the doorstep
<zmoylan-pi> of course if it's cured meat an air tight package with nitrogren amto will do the trick
<zmoylan-pi> and hawaii gets through a lot of spam as it doesn't need any refrigeration iirc
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<popey> yo
<bigcalm> Is it September yet?
<bigcalm> popey: I'm thinking of getting a Volvo V40 D2 in a few years. What's your experience of Volvo been over time?
<zmoylan-pi> boxy but good? :-P
<popey> I loved mine
<popey> Not sure I'd buy a diesel these days
<bigcalm> zmoylan-pi: Volvo - they're boxy but safe
<bigcalm> Yes, I've been wondering about petrol vs diesel now
<popey> getting rid of my volvo, i never use it
<bigcalm> All of my cars have been diesel
<popey> I'd quite like an electric car
<bigcalm> I'd love an electric car, but my purse would not
<zmoylan-pi> the charging points at nearby tesco and shopping centre are often in use
<zmoylan-pi> and i have noticed i have to listen more carefully at junctions as leccy cars are much more silent as they approach
<bigcalm> popey: have you experienced this with your pebble time? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h3WJ8zE3A4s (excuse the terrible video, it was late and dark)
<popey> is it maps updating?
<Myrtti> Volvo's arent' that boxy anymore
<bigcalm> Yes
<popey> yes, i saw it and made a similar video a year or more ago
<bigcalm> Ah
<popey> it's bonkers
 * Switches grumbles under breath, people are stupid
<Switches> Can anyone tell me why people think MS have bought Canonical because of the whole Ubuntu on Windows stuff?..
<foobarry> "people"?
<zmoylan-pi> ms makes lots of deals with lots of companies... and for most of those companies it seems that later they end up with smelly end of the stick.
<Switches> Well so far I've seen it on G+, Twitter and a few other places posted about..
<MooDoo> Switches: it's been going about for years,
<MooDoo> Switches: popey has been a secret MS employee for ages ;)
<Switches> I know it just kinda gets to a point where you see it and just cba explaining to people that MS and Canonical are working "together"!
<foobarry> ah, magically a piromoni email appears
<foobarry> ali1234 theory seems correct. they either oversold or screwed up on sat
<MooDoo> Switches: feed on this - http://techaeris.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/Microsoft_Canonical.jpg ;)
<Switches> The other thing that gets me is Canonical are in the "wrong" for working with MS, yet Redhat and Novell should be the "poster boys" for working with MS >.<
<ali1234> nobody should ever work with MS
<Switches> rofl
<Switches> Why?
<MooDoo> at the end of the day it's not a bad thing, what ever makes things better is always good
<ali1234> can you name a company that has ever benefitted from a strategic partnership with MS?
<zmoylan-pi> stac, sendo worked with ms and ended up suing and winning against ms but are now still dead
<foobarry> its never better for the other party
<MooDoo> bash on windows is a fantastic idea and works quite well
 * Switches was an oem for MS for 15 years, it had its ups and downs but made me and my company money..
<foobarry> its just a project by one guy
<foobarry> rather than a company collab
<ali1234> that's not a strategic partnership... that's you selling MS products
<MooDoo> i'd also like to see it the other way around as well, windows on ubuntu running windows apps natively from the os not using wine etc
<ali1234> canonical aren't in that business
<ali1234> nokia were though... went great
<zmoylan-pi> nokia actually may have done better than ms from that deal.. a rare instance
<Switches> MooDoo: That would be a good thing
<ali1234> considering that the deal was done only to eliminate nokia as a competitor and ended when microsoft decided they didn't want to be in that market any more... no
<Switches> Guess that's one way to look at it
<SuperMatt> https://blog.mozilla.org/tanvi/2016/06/16/contextual-identities-on-the-web/ - oh man, this is going to be awesome. I means I can be signed out of facebook, amazon, google, etc for most of my browsing, but then I can select the personal context for certain tabs, and they'll be logged in
<foobarry> http://boingboing.net/2016/06/15/intel-x86-processors-ship-with.html
<foobarry> had problems due to AMT already
<zmoylan-pi> but now nokia has bought alcatel and a number of wearable companies and looks set to re-enter the market
<foobarry> windows machines in sleep state were flooding our 1Gb network due to AMT somehow
<Switches> Yay more stuff on Intel ME :p
<ali1234> alcatel phones are terrible
<foobarry> SuperMatt: poor choice of name though: containers
<foobarry> i picture a phone from the 90s when i hear alcatel
<ali1234> as for wearables... there's certainly a lot of room in that market... but if they just make another rubbish fitness band or overpriced smartwatch then they are toast
<zmoylan-pi> i have one ali1234 cheap and nasty software, the hardware isn't bad
<Switches> Don't worry before long Intel and Redhat will have everything under their control muhahaha :p
<SuperMatt> foobarry: sure, but it helps techs quickly understand what's happening
<Switches> foobarry: That looks to be a really interesting read, had a scan over it will read it properly later (pocketed) lol
<foobarry> COME ON ENGLAND!
<foobarry> problem with working in IT is lack of enthusiasm for football among colleagues
<daftykins> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/06/16/lester_haines_obituary/ :(
<popey> my tv stream is so bad, the football looks like FIFA 2010
<MooDoo> I've got it open on a tab in the background, if it gets exciting i'll switch to it lol
<foobarry> iplayer?
<foobarry> mine seems fine
<foobarry> flash performance sucks a bit
<popey> tvcatchup
<foobarry> iplayer seems fine here
<MooDoo> ah nice to england in can't finish mode again lol
<foobarry> sterling is lame
<DJones_> Sheesh, an MP has been shot & stabbed in yorkshire
<MooDoo> blimey
<daftykins> :/
<zmoylan-pi> that won't affect the brexit vote in any way... :-/
<daftykins> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-36550304
<MooDoo> no it won't just wondering what it was all abou
<popey> http://imgur.com/a/xPoW8  top one tvcatchup, bottom is iplayer
<diplo> Guys, I've got a customer who wants to backup to a usbdrive every minute of pdf files that their system has created, I need to check drives are mounted or not because staff remove other drives that are plugged in, this is a 1tb drive so not flash, I was just wondering whether it causes damage to drives constantly mounting / unmounting them ?
<diplo> Linux box, with a ntfs usb drive
<daftykins> oh you'll have some horrible permissions woes there i'd bet, using NTFS on the external
<daftykins> that idea doesn't sound so nice to me, what volume of PDFs are we talking?
<diplo> Thousands
<diplo> Not had any perm issues on the backup
<diplo> More worried about the drive being mounted/unmounted quite often for wear and tear
<diplo> As in writing to the drive I mean, not keeping the permissions
<daftykins> it's a disk and mounting is just reading, can't see any issues unless the machine and power supply to this drive aren't UPS'd
<diplo> Very hard work customer who basically wants any paper invoice he creates on his counter create a pdf and sync it to a usb device every minute in case of issues with anything
<diplo> He's quite a high maintenance customer, so bosses rather we just do what he asks than try to argue
<daftykins> well, it won't be a very good backup if the power goes :>
<daftykins> if the initial copy is on a single disk i'd have more issues with that
<ali1234> diplo: mount/unmount shouldn't do anything... the drive doesn't know if it's mounted after all
<daftykins> unless it were uncleanly unmounted, you get that error message about NTFS ones no?
<ali1234> yeah
<ali1234> it might even refuse to mount with NTFS if it is not clean
<diplo> yeah it does, basically tried a less good solution with fstab before
<diplo> It is supposed to stay plugged in and use the same mount point, but the guys staff are unplugging it i'm sure, so it tries remounting as a different drive sde at the same path and fails because its already mounted ( although its not )
<diplo> I've got lots of ways around it, just wanted to check me unmounting it constantly wouldn't do any issues
<SuperMatt> Shouldn't do
<daftykins> diplo: did you use /dev/sdx or UUID?
<daftykins> i guess being in fstab would get ignored if someone removed it though
<diplo> I'm using uuid now
<popey> oops
<daftykins> honestly it should just never be touched and be UPS'd, the host and this drive
<daftykins> if that can't be handled, then this customer needs to handle his own staff
<daftykins> hmm naughty IPs trying to hit the Austrian lad i know again - 195.2.252.67 - - [16/Jun/2016:15:40:11 +0200] "POST /xmlrpc.php HTTP/1.0" 200 581 "-" "Mozilla/4.0 (compatible: MSIE 7.0; Windows NT 6.0)"
<daftykins> wordpress abusers
<diplo> Sorry, lost internet
<diplo> Yep, had this discussion with the boss, basically he says if you agree with what the customer says he disagrees with what he formely said and if you disagree with him its all out war
<diplo> They've tried dropping him and hes threatened to take him to courts
<diplo> PITA :/
<daftykins> that doesn't sound like the world i live in XD
<zmoylan-pi> that's one way to build customer relationship....
<daftykins> i heard a great line yesterday, "if 10% of your customers are causing 90% of the trouble, that's ok if they're bringing you 90% of your profits"
<daftykins> if not, bye bye
<zmoylan-pi> one of the weirdest/toughest programmes i wrote was for a service based database called troublesome customers... initially it was simply to look for on site callouts within last 30 days, covered v uncovered. but every customer had a difference idea of what a troublesome customer was
<daftykins> would you tend to charge for follow up support calls, even if they were resolved within 5 minutes?
<zmoylan-pi> the company worked on support contracts which were fairly liberal in terms of accomodating the customer... 99% of calls were covered by support contract
<zmoylan-pi> they'd pretty much have to be standing over the smouldering pc with a lump hammer saying 'i'm really glad i killed the bloody thing' before we'd charge them :-)
<daftykins> heh
<zmoylan-pi> sometimes even then...
<popey> *applause*
<bigcalm> There's a lot of shouting happening outside the office window
<popey> haha
<davmor2> bigcalm: 2-1 to England
<MooDoo> we did a russia
<zmoylan-pi> invaded poland?
<MooDoo> no silly scored in injury time
<foobarry> my iplayer got paused somehow and we were watching 5 mins delayed
<diplo> Spoilers!!!!!!!!!
<diplo> :)
<daftykins> when i fire up my baseball streams, i'm always 20 seconds behind mates in the US :( they see it all happen and comment before!
<daftykins> no the plus side, it's a good way to make you pay attention...
<Myrtti> well.
<daftykins> https://roketman.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/well_well_well.jpg
<Myrtti> she died ;__;
<daftykins> who?
<Myrtti> the shot MP
<daftykins> omw
<daftykins> any details yet?
<Myrtti> I suppose.
<Myrtti> BBC News is on it quite well
<Myrtti> :-|
<bashrc> shocked middle class sensibilities
<bashrc> was there a motive?
<daftykins> no info yet it would seem
<daftykins> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-england-leeds-36543180
<daftykins> updates there
<bashrc> it's sad when people become victims of violence. There's a lot of it about, and most of it doesn't get onto the BBC news.
<daftykins> weird for a gun crime to crop up in England, or at least it is to me
<Newman101> Good grief... MP listening her constituents murdered. This is beyond belief.
<zmoylan-1i> would it make such big news if the victim wasn't an mp?
<daftykins> most likely not
<Azelphur> Tempted to buy a surface 3 and put Linux on it, anyone have any recommendations around that?
<Azelphur> I like that it has a long battery life and supports USB charging, yet can run a full OS
<daftykins> not sure about the 3, but the pro 4 a client has suffers from that sleep bug and so i'm advising everyone avoid it like the plague
<daftykins> tempting to say it could be a win10 thing, but the fact they keep trying to fix it with firmware updates says otherwise o0
<Newman101> Dualboot might be an option but if you run solely Linux you won't get firmware updates because they are distributed through Windows updates.
<zmoylan-pi> what are the surface keyboards like.  they seem very... flat looking with little travel
<Newman101> To put it mildly, problematic.
<Newman101> The keyboard stops responding occasionally.
<daftykins> the keys on the type cover for the surface 4 seem very nice, i set one of those up - though Â£104.99 at Gatwick airport for one, it better be
<daftykins> Newman101: which model is that?
<Newman101> daftykins: Surface Pro 3.
<Newman101> daftykins: usually the problem is solved by shutting down, holding down the volume up + power, then powering the surface again.
<daftykins> mmm i found the key travel was a bit better on the newer type cover
<Newman101> Also, auto-rotate tends to stop working occasionally which is VERY annoying.
<Azelphur> Newman101: ah, so basically I shouldn't buy a surface
<Azelphur> that's a shame, I wanted something long life and microusb charging
<popey> chromebook
<Azelphur> popey: is there an x86 chromebook with usb charging?
<brmbrmcar> Chromebook?
<brmbrmcar> hehehe
<popey> Azelphur: the hp ones are I think
<daftykins> *gasp* http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/06/16/adobe_36_flash_flaws/
<daftykins> ;)
<popey> NO WAI
<daftykins> ikr!
<zleap> anyone had issues with the 16.04 mini iso file,  just tried to write to a external usb disk and it just shows up blank
<maps> hola
<maps> que pasa
#ubuntu-uk 2016-06-17
<Switches> Morning
<knightwise> morning Switches
<Switches> Heya knightwise
<TwistedLucidity> Oh joys, another morning another enforced full-refresh from Mozilla. All tabs, add-ons etc lost. Again.
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<TwistedLucidity> Brilliant. Not content with losing all my tabs, Mozilla decided to delete all the settings that I had made. They're getting as bad as MS!
<foobarry> sounds like your profile got messed up
<TwistedLucidity> Dunno. Logged on and before I'd even started anything Moz decided to nuke Firefox. It isn't the first time
<TwistedLucidity> On the last update they deleted all my bookmarks as well. At least those survived this time
<foobarry> check your profiles dir
<SuperMatt> morning
<TwistedLucidity> AFAIK nothing has changed. It's a bloody irritation. Oh, and you can guess the OS.....
<JamesTait> Good morning all!  Happy Friday, and happy Eat Your Vegetables Day! ð
<TwistedLucidity> Huh, exactly the same issue in a virtual environment. I wonder what Moz/MS are playing at.
<davmor2> JamesTait: I won't repeat the beach boys from yesterday instead I'll go with https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZcJjMnHoIBI
<JamesTait> davmor2, there you go again, making me feel old.
<Switches> We all get there :)
<Switches> Ohh that's interesting, Phil Spencer has said MS will put some of the "Windows Store" games on Steam
<foobarry_> sportsdirect have no way of telling you if a store stocks an item and the don't answer their store phone :(
<foobarry_> i would buy somewhere else but this area is a wasteland
<Switches> :( that sucks
<Switches> You would think they had something like Argos "ring and reserve" thing
<davmor2> JamesTait: if you feel old it's potentially because you remember all these things and are :P
<Switches> Depends on "when" you remember them from :p
<davmor2> Switches: the original release on vinyl
<Switches> Well I would say I'm a little "older" than that as I still remember 8tracks from when I was small >.>
<Switches> Also still remember buying 12" vinyl albums and 7" singles >.>
<foobarry> need to find a swimming float from somewhere
<JamesTait> Switches, I remember my dad's mate having an 8-track in his Ford Cortina, and our Scout leader having one in his minibus.
<Switches> :D
<Switches> Ford Cortina, now that was a car!
<davmor2> pffff you and your 8 track our bus never even had a radio
<davmor2> and that was only when we had the money to take the bus
<TwistedLucidity> You had a bus? Luxury. We used to have to walk 10 miles over broken glass. Barefoot! And we were lucky.
<davmor2> TwistedLucidity: Luxury, we used to get up 10 hours before we went to bed, lick the 20 miles of broken glass clean, on the way to work in pit for 26 hours a day, and you know what you tell the youngsters of today that and they don't believe you
<TwistedLucidity> More Chateau de Chasolet?
<Myrtti> ah luxury. We had to first collect the glass from dilapidated houses and deconstruction sites, then bottle up some tears to use to wash the glass clean, smash it with our little fists, eat it, then poop it, then wash it again, then spread it, and the only thing we had to as music to listen to was the Internationale we had to sing ourselves
<TwistedLucidity> I used to dream of being allowed to sing
<davmor2> Myrtti: Luxury we had to crawl to beaches and set fire to them to collect the glass shards, to clean with the tears of unicorns, then eat it, poop it, lick it clean again, on the way to work down pit for 36 hours a day, and the only music we had was the tinnitus
<Myrtti> BUT THESE YOUTH THEY DON'T KNOW HOW GOOD THEY HAVE IT
<Switches> lol
 * Switches is looking at second hand macs.. oh the prices are enough to make you cry >.<
<davmor2> Somebody really does need to do a 4 Yorkshire Geeks sketch popey I'm looking at you, mr podcaster ;)
<Myrtti> Switches: we've got a second hand mac, wanna buy? http://i.stack.imgur.com/XpXuo.jpg
<Myrtti> only 50 monees
<halt> Hi guys, I have a trouble with printing the build in priter manager never worked I got used to that, so I used the cups web interface, which was fine so far, but now a network printer which used to be a tcp connection based on IP is now some weird dnssd://  is there any way to get it back as normal ?
<Switches> rofl :p G4 I got 3 of them in the shed >.>
<Switches> I'm actually looking at the G5 Pro's but the ones on Ebay are either pre 5'1 or pretty beat up with Xeons >.<
<foobarry> just went looking for krita3. found an appimage, runs without installation, happy days
<daftykins> but for how long ;)
<foobarry> >
<foobarry> ?
<daftykins> ah just messing, but if it relied on anything on the host, then an update changed something...
<daftykins> i think i was borrowing some pessimism from zmoylan-pi :>
<zmoylan-pi> i was wondering were that went...
<foobarry> its a universal app format..works on all systems
<foobarry> think i missed a conversation somewhere
<daftykins> woohoo this new double-sided 3M tape seems to be the holy grail for fixing back on these iPad screens
#ubuntu-uk 2016-06-18
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<DJones> Did anybody notie if any of the landing crew for Tim Peake were wearing planet of the apes masks?
#ubuntu-uk 2016-06-19
<SebthreeBQM10HD> abc123\
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<MooDoo> howdy all
<brobostigon> mornring MooDoo
 * brobostigon thinks he has found a bug in ubuntu touch, where the screen wakes up in my pocket.
<SebthreeBQM10HD> brobostigon on which device?
<brobostigon> SebthreeBQM10HD: mako.
<SebthreeBQM10HD> brobostigon mako whats that
<brobostigon> its the device name for nexus 4.
<SebthreeBQM10HD> oh
<zmoylan-pi> shiny... http://linux.softpedia.com/blog/oneplus-3-to-become-an-unofficial-ubuntu-phone-development-will-start-soon-505299.shtml
<daftykins> minsky: fix your tubes!
<daftykins> http://arstechnica.co.uk/gadgets/2016/06/xps-13-developer-edition-review/
<daftykins> o0
<Welshman> Hi everyone 'in' this channel or room. Also, I have a question about or on using an alternative player to the Adobe Flash Player for viewing cartoons and videos online. I know that the A F P is the standard player used on the net on a lot of sites and I also know that Linux (I'm using Linux Mint 17.2 Cinnamon Raefella) does not support it. Also, I have downloaded and installed the VLC Media Player. So, my question is: Is it possible to link the
<Welshman> VLC M P to any website or any other player that is supported by Linux?
<daftykins> it's kind of annoying that you would seek out ubuntu channels for your Mint problems, is their IRC channel that bad?
<daftykins> use pepperflash with chrome, job done
<daftykins> there is no need to attempt any external player in browser malarkey
<Welshman> daftykins: Hi. Also, I would not have entered this channel/room to ask my question if there had been more people in the #linux-chat + #linux-help channel/room other than me and also I am using the Opera browser/search engine and not Chrome/Google (Linux does not support that browser/search engine)! : )
<daftykins> !mint
<lubotu3> Linux Mint is not a supported derivative of Ubuntu. Please seek support in #linuxmint-help on irc.spotchat.org
<daftykins> Welshman: you're on the wrong network.
<daftykins> Welshman: yes it does support chrome
<Welshman> daftykins: So, if you do not mind I will wait for a few minutes to see is another person can answer my question. Thanks. : )
<daftykins> you have been misinformed
<daftykins> Welshman: but i already answered it with fact... you've just been misinformed
<daftykins> opera is also practically chrome now, so you can install pepperflash and it'll work too.
<daftykins> !info pepperflashplugin-nonfree
<lubotu3> pepperflashplugin-nonfree (source: pepperflashplugin-nonfree): Pepper Flash Player - browser plugin. In component multiverse, is optional. Version 1.8.2ubuntu1 (xenial), package size 10 kB, installed size 41 kB (Only available for i386; amd64)
<daftykins> Welshman: sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get install pepperflashplugin-nonfree
<daftykins> i'd advise going to support for the distribution you use in future, though
<daftykins> a wild penguin42 ! o/
<Welshman> daftykins + lubotu3: Hi. Also, you are both correct about the pepperflash plugin being supported/suitable for the Opera browser! Just been searching online to find out and read about on the following website: https://solus-project.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1009  Thanks and all the best for the rest of 2016 + the future!! : )
<Welshman> *it
<daftykins> Welshman: well yeah, i'm a volunteer... i do support
<daftykins> also lol at thanking a bot
<zmoylan-pi> a woman became famous this week as she usually said please and thank you when using google as she thought a person at google was sending the answers back to her
<daftykins> o0
<zmoylan-pi> i think arthur c. clarke mentions politeness to a.i. in 3001 when he mentions philosophical discussions in book called 'artificial intelligence, real aggrivation'
#ubuntu-uk 2017-06-12
<diplo> Morning all
<MooDoo> hello all
<popey> yo
<MooDoo> :)
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<diplo> What a great way to start a Monday, half the VM's down :)
<zmoylan-pi> on the plus side, half of them are up :-P
<diplo> hah, trying to get my boss to order new drives for ages.. I laughed a little this morning
<zmoylan-pi> why are the servers down!! ::points to six month old email pleading for new hardware::
<zmoylan-pi> ah blessed email...
<diplo> hah - pretty much exactly what I did :)
<zmoylan-pi> i kept hard copy of some of mine... not just a digital backup...
#ubuntu-uk 2017-06-13
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<diddledan> Allo all
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<brobostigon> hey hey
<foobarry> https://insights.ubuntu.com/wp-content/uploads/40b1/controls.png
<foobarry> large survey of users' preference on window controls
<foobarry> of OMG readers commissioned by canonical
<Seeker`> That's a really bad graph
<Seeker`> WHY IS THE RIGHT ON THE LEFT?!
<foobarry> anyone who's seen the election should also know that blue got the slightly larger share
<foobarry> https://insights.ubuntu.com/2017/06/12/ubuntu-desktop-gnome-extensions-poll-results
<Laney> the users have spoken
<Laney> hard window contrexit
<Laney> #iamthe46.2%
<foobarry> is there an easy command to enable universe repo?
<foobarry> rather than sed?
<foobarry> sudo add-apt-repository universe
<foobarry> wonder if it works unattended
<popey> wonder when https://havethebuttonsmovedbackyet.com/ will need updating
<foobarry> it needs a left/right
<foobarry> wherearethe buttonsnow.com
<foobarry> just purchased 10 rpi3 :D
<foobarry> with lego cases
<daftykins> :O
<foobarry> cost about Â£500 including sd cards
<foobarry> its for work :|
<daftykins> what's the plan for those?
<daftykins> ah har
<foobarry> make a mini cluster for demo purposes and engagement
<foobarry> you can stack the cases, lego style
<foobarry> photos to follow :D
<zmoylan-pi> he's building a backup cluster for ba for the next time their system goes down... :-P
<daftykins> heh or multiple ;)
<zmoylan-pi> it'll run from a suitcase as long as he doesn't let them beat the buggery out of it...
#ubuntu-uk 2017-06-14
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<diplo> Morning all, anyone know how to change the banner name in qmail ?
<SuperMatt> I'll bet you're using a plesk server
<diplo> Nope, worse SME Server
<diplo> I've found info on how to do it from 2004 so far :D
<foobarry> diplo: do you still use redmine?
<diplo> Didn't get the company to use it know, keep showing it to them every 6 months and don't get anywhere :/
<foobarry> probably been using it for 10yrs now
<diplo> I looked at phabricator or something recently that solus guys use, looks good too
<foobarry> i keep going to meetings where companies are complaining that their super expensive ITIL service desk doesn't actually let users raise tickets
<foobarry> the reason i asked is because performance in firefox sucks for some reason
<foobarry> chrome is fine
<diplo> The developers doing some wizardry that Chrome doesn't like ?
<foobarry> i think firefox just sucks a bundle
<diplo> See I've moved back to FF
<diplo> :)
<diplo> Got fed up with Chrome caching everything
<foobarry> you can disable cache easily on chrime
<diplo> yeah, thought I'd give FF a go, and to be honest had no issues at all in the last couple of months
<foobarry> are you running multi process?
<zmoylan-pi> i moved to vivaldi with firefox as my backup browser
<diplo> I run stock 64bit FF with U origins and Badger thing
<SuperMatt> I'm on FF too. I especially like the containers feature
<diplo> Not looked/used that yet. read about it ages ago
<diplo> is it a manual thing?
<SuperMatt> Kinda Sorta
<SuperMatt> but you can now force certain sites to work in certain containers
<SuperMatt> so inbox.google.com is always in my personal container, as with facebook
<popey> Good morning
<SuperMatt> but all other sites are browsed through a container with no tracking cookies
<foobarry> today is PR approval day
<foobarry> its funny how nearly all your teams work lives on github where 3 years ago, none of it was
<popey> Bit sad that we're all putting our free software in a non-free platform.
<BigRedS> as long as you don't end up reliant on github-only things, it's still a free format/protocol, though
<BigRedS> there is *some* vendor lock-in with github, but it's not as bad as it might be (from the bits I've seen)
<sebsebseb> London tower block news hmm
<sebsebseb> awful really
<zmoylan-pi> there are fires all the time... i wonder what went wrong for this one to spread as it did
<SuperMatt> It spead on the outside. I think there was some coating put on the outside which probably accelerated the fire
<SuperMatt> also, with the summer heat, many people would have slept with windows open - making the curtains a nice thing for a fire to catch on to
<foobarry> sure and we have a github enterprise internal appliance too
<foobarry> the features they are adding all the time  are excellent though and really help our workflow
<foobarry> even just the simple stuff such as PR reviews etc
<sebsebseb> zmoylan-pi: SuperMatt  apparantly this is the worst fire like that in the country or whatever BBC Said, and yes something was on the outside of builiding that appreantly sprad it
<zmoylan-pi> so it looks like they've been spraying the buildings with a cladding that is aluminium... the material that caused the hindenburg... the same material in the solid rocket boosters of the space shuttle...
<TwistedLucidity> Aluminium is perfectly stable and safe. Until you scratch it....
<zmoylan-pi> and then it's rocket fuel...
<zmoylan-pi> throw in an iron cored building and you have the ingredients of thermite...
<foobarry> my missis said that BBC named and shamed someone as the cause of the fire
<foobarry> hardly helpful
<zmoylan-pi> far too soon. and i'm more worried that other buildings are now fire traps
<sebsebseb> foobarry: named who?  apparnatly it was a fridge that exploded that caused it
<foobarry> yeah
<sebsebseb> they didn't put a name though
<foobarry> they still named the fridge owner
<sebsebseb> did they ?
<sebsebseb> where?
<sebsebseb> I been watching the report on tv, but  no name
<foobarry> they interviewed his neighbour
<sebsebseb> ah right I see like that ok
<sebsebseb> foobarry: they weren't so keen on the guy earlier who swore on his report, but then was like, but this shows the general anger, after
<foobarry> i am definitely not watching
<sebsebseb> foobarry: how come?
<foobarry> media is too depressing
<sebsebseb> ah right yeah
<sebsebseb> I should turn off in a way , since seen enough of this already, but going to get ready for something in a bit anyway etc
<sebsebseb> foobarry: media is to depressing in general ?
<sebsebseb> bad things that hapapended
<foobarry> in general, plus the constant obsessing over political landscape is turning everyone into permanently worried and angry ppl
<sebsebseb> foobarry: or I sort of turn  off but not quite h eh,  I just changed to sky news.  seen bbc for about two hours already so.  but I am actsaully gettng away from tv and getting ready for something in a bit anyway
<sebsebseb> that's quite differnet courage
<sebsebseb> foobarry: yeah and media likes to scare in general
<jbassett_> Hello all
<jbassett_> Just starting to get my head around Ansibel
<jbassett_> Success with a .yml file to install ubuntu updates but having trouble getting it working to install a package
<jbassett_> tried the syntax from the official manual on website as well as various other methods I have found online, all fail
<jbassett_> Trying this but fails
<jbassett_> - name: Ensure aptitude package is installed
<jbassett_> apt: name=aptitude state=present
<jbassett_> Returns ERROR! Syntax Error while loading YAML.
<jbassett_> Where an I going wrong?
<awilkins> Is apt indented at the same level as name?
<awilkins> Could always try the name and state params on separate lines like all the examples in the docs : http://docs.ansible.com/ansible/apt_module.html
<foobarry> nobody told me a new release of http://www.templeos.org/ came out in march!
<zmoylan-pi> we released a white dove as notification...
<foobarry> please don't watch the youtube links
<foobarry> if you don't want to be offended bit a stream of racist werid schizo ranting
<zmoylan-pi> ...so like every other online conversation...
<foobarry> worse
<SuperMatt> I have no words
<foobarry> oh no , you clicked?
<SuperMatt> I only looked at the front few pages. I didn't follow any links
<foobarry> ah few
<SuperEngineer> Just been decommosioning my old Dell Dimension E520 pc.  Damn, that thing is well built [lessons could still be learned by other manufacturers!
<foobarry> lots of metal
<SuperEngineer> foobarry: most definitely
<SuperEngineer> Rescued the 2 spinning rusts [recently DBAN'd], the old basic [but stil with own fan] Gforce 220 card
<foobarry> waiting for my 10 rpi to arrive any moment now
<SuperEngineer> ...& for somew unknown reason, the 4:-)
<SuperEngineer> Just pulled the old DIMs from it as well... resisted temptation to pull the psu & cd drive ;-)
<SuperEngineer> ...just realised, even the 1 jumper on m/b has a hand-pull on it... that's just boasting, Dell!
 * SuperEngineer rescues kand pull endowed jumper!
<SuperEngineer> Anybody here want an old Dell Dimension E520? [need to supply own spinning rust, vid card, memory... and jumper :-D
<SuperEngineer> [& need to supply own SATA leads] ;-)
<SuperEngineer> fooberr10 rpi = "10 revs per inch" or "will post to SuperEngineer when recieved"?
<foobarry> or will eat
<SuperEngineer> :-)
<foobarry> any R users in here? had a script fail with Rscript but not R --no-restore, wondered why
<dogmatic69> having some strange issues. Sound is disabled in the top bar but plays fine. Cant adjust the volume.
<dogmatic69> sound settings shows nothing that can play sound
<dogmatic69> http://i.imgur.com/EvAmtxi.png
<dogmatic69> see the icon is grayed out, mute is ticked and cant be un-ticked. sound settings show no devices
<dogmatic69_> Just tried to restart and see if that would fix it and now ont boot
<dogmatic69_> Won't boot*
<dogmatic69__> anyone seen my messages? cant see them in the logs
<dogmatic69__> just restarted and its stuck on a bliking cursor
<dogmatic69__> failsafe boot does not work either :(
<diddledan> :'( london can't catch a break
<dogmatic69_> ok, I am now trying to reinstall ubuntu and on the installation it does not give the reinstall option. says its not detected any OS
<dogmatic69_> any ideas why it does not find the install, the disk if viewable, I can see all files etc.
<dogmatic69_> its mounted from/as /dev/sda5
#ubuntu-uk 2017-06-15
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<MooDoo> hello all
<diplo> Anyone use Nagios to monitor if a process has been running for a certain amount of time ~?
<diplo> Using check_proc_age from the exchange via check_by_ssh but it seems hit and miss whether it works or not
<diplo> Also tried check_procs -t INTERVAL or something that works locally ok but doesn't seem to work well otherwise
<diplo> We have a process that gets stuck everynow and then, can't track the cause yet so want to be alerted of it.
<foobarry> oh look: http://imgur.com/a/mWR3S
<zmoylan-pi> that's a lot of pi...
<popey> i recognise that case, I have the same one :)
<foobarry> wait for it...
<zmoylan-pi> they're your anti ninja servers that you have on the floor at 3am...
<popey> haha
<popey> i bought one red, one blue and one black so I know what kind of pi is in each one
<popey> then I remembered I had a labeller :)
<zmoylan-pi> i use a sharpie marker... dead handy
<popey> i even labelled my pi zeores
<zmoylan-pi> huey dewey and louie?
<foobarry> http://imgur.com/a/7fEZn
<popey> hahah
<popey> i wondered what we were waiting for, not disappointed
<foobarry> it will look uhly when all connected
<foobarry> probably won't use wifi
<popey> did you get heat sinks for them?
<foobarry> noooo
<foobarry> will i need them?
<popey> dunno, i did as a precaution on mine
<popey> because a few of them run flat out a lot of the time
<foobarry> which ones did you buy pls?
<popey> figured it was a cheap way to protect them, as they sometimes get quite hot
<popey> just some cheapo ones off amazon, bag o' heatsinks
<popey> there's some rated badly and another lot which are rated better, go for them
<popey> you get like 10 in a pack, of the two sizes
<foobarry> especially for pi?
<popey> so you'd probbaly need 2-3 bags
<popey> yes
<popey> https://www.amazon.co.uk/d/a37/Mudder-Piece-Aluminum-Heatsink-Cooler-Cooling-Raspberry/B01DLQIMPE
<popey> that kinda thing
<popey> peel & stick. done.
<zmoylan-pi> i thought the pi 3 got a bit warm?
<foobarry> how many are used per pi?
<popey> two, one big, one small, there is a pic of one in that listing
<popey> last photo
<foobarry> ah, so i need 2 packs of https://www.amazon.co.uk/Mudder-Aluminum-Heatsink-Cooling-Raspberry/dp/B01LXWK626/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1497531709&sr=8-3&keywords=pi+heatsinks
<popey> it's odd numbers in that pack. 2 big ones, four little
<popey> which will only do 2 pis
<foobarry> that link has 5 * 0.35 inch x 0.35 inch (8mm x 8 mm) aluminum heat sink
<foobarry> 5 * 0.56 inch x 0.56 inch (14 mm x 14 mm) aluminum heat sink
<popey> ah thats better
<popey> https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=63&t=13080
<popey> "Heat Sinks, Do YOU need them."
<popey> maybe you could cook bacon on your cpu like this chap https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7uBNCN6v_gk
<foobarry> we will be running as a demo hpc cluster
<foobarry> so the heatsink info is helpful , tanks
<foobarry> thanks
<popey> np
<foobarry> have to pack them away now as i have higher priority stuff to work on for a while :(
<foobarry> :(:(:(
<foobarry> i got the anker 6 port usb charger, man they are sleek
<popey> yeah, i like anker kit
<popey> i have a bolse usb charger on my desk though, 7 ports ftw :)
<foobarry> do the heatsinks fit inside the lego case ok?
<popey> https://www.amazon.co.uk/Charging-Desktop-Station-SmartICáµá´¹-Technology/dp/B00L2SBZ80
<popey> yes
<popey> lots of room in there
<foobarry> cool
<foobarry> bought a pack of rolos. havent had them since i was a kid. nicer than i remember
<zmoylan-pi> i remember my last pack of rolos... my dad gave them to me... after i thanked him afterwards he mentioned it wasn't a problem as he was clearing out the locker of a dead guy in hospital... it's the little things you remember... :-)
 * brobostigon has never had them, he is allergic to milk chocolate, (allergic to the milk, not the chocolate).
<SuperMatt> Rolos kinda disappeared from the shelves for a while, but I'm glad they're back
<SuperMatt> I like to keep them in the fridge so that the toffee in the centre gets harder
<zmoylan-pi> they're no munchies though
<zmoylan-pi> even if they are a lot cheaper than munchies
<ali1234> daftykins: please remind me once again what the deal is with windows 7 and OEM licensing? can i just get the retail ISO and use the serial from the CoA on the bottom of this laptop, in order to do a clean install?
<ali1234> or do i need to get the "samsung OEM ISO" like on previous versions?
<ali1234> its home premium 64 bit, if that matters
<diddledan> ali1234: I believe goat sacrifice is part of the procedure these days
<directhex> ali1234: 7 iirc you can use any old iso AS LONG ASS THE COUNTRY CODE MATCHES
<directhex> and even that might not matter
<directhex> you don't need a samsung iso
<directhex> enter your cd key in https://www.microsoft.com/en-gb/software-download/windows7 to get a link to the right iso, though
<ali1234> oh nice, thanks
<directhex> on systems where the cd key is burned into the firmware, not stuck to the case, you can read it out of the ACPI tables from within linux
<directhex> it's at the end of /sys/firmware/acpi/tables/MSDM
#ubuntu-uk 2017-06-16
<ali1234> okay. intel rapid storage technology (which i believe is a SATA AHCI driver, basically) freezes samsung evo 850 SSDs
<ali1234> remove it, computer works fine
<ali1234> annoying
<knightwise> morning everyone
<PaulE-UK> Hello all! Does anyone here have any knowledge of Mailtrain (Mailchimp alternative) and how that interacts with Postfix on Ubuntu, please?
<PaulE-UK> If I am piping a log through netcat to a port on localhost to be looked at by a script, does that port need to be open, or is it by default by it being on localhost?
<diplo> If it's on localhost unless the app blocks it I doubt you should have to do anything
<diplo> Normally can see stuff like that in the app specific logs though
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<diplo> hey brobostigon
<diplo> Is it time to go home yet?!?
<brobostigon> hey diplo
<PaulE-UK> thanks @diplo is there a command that I can use to test the port from the command line? (sorry newbie here)
<diplo> you could just telnet localhost <portnum>
<PaulE-UK> thanks @diplo
<diplo> That'll at least tell you if it'll connect
<foobarry> one of my firefox tabs is using 100% cpu but no way of telling :(
<foobarry> "Web content"
<foobarry> and 3G RAM :|
<popey> is that the new one with per process tabs
<popey> ?
<popey> also, wheee
<popey>  10.0 GiB + 184.2 MiB =  10.2 GiB	chrome (71)
<foobarry> yes
<foobarry> its taking 10s per tab to close each one
<foobarry> down to 70 tabs
<zmoylan-pi> isn't there a close all tabs option?
<brobostigon> well, wont it just collapse anyway and close them all when you start running out of memory.
<foobarry> turns out it was none of the tabs
<foobarry> a common ff problem. ]#
<popey> erk
<zmoylan-pi> remember when ff was the lean lite browser...
<diplo> How do you switch between all those tabs then foobarry ? Use the drop down to select, I get fed up when it hits 20 or so and just close them
<zmoylan-pi> 20 seems to be about my maximum tolerated number as well
<popey> $ ps aux | grep -ic chrome
<popey> 76
<popey> http://imgur.com/a/4UTMe :S
<zmoylan-pi> on plus side none of them are tentacle porn searches...
<diddledan> https://stackoverflow.blog/2017/06/15/developers-use-spaces-make-money-use-tabs/
<zmoylan-pi> when i first started in the 80s i used tabs but then as i moved between different editors i found that tabs could mis indent the code depending on the editor so i switched to spaces
<foobarry> i generally scroll the tabs with the mouse whell
<foobarry> most of my tabs were github PR reviews and our docs site
<diplo> Chromes is defintely better at displaying tabs well displaying just the icons as more tabs open, you have to scroll with FF
<dogmatic69_> o/
<dogmatic69_> Fresh install of 17.04 yesterday and its crashing every couple hours. already 4 times today. Completely freezes up
<dogmatic69_> any ideas I could look for
<ahayzen> IIRC there were some issues in the kernel or something for intel hardware, maybe make sure you are fully up to date (i can't find the bug right now)
<dogmatic69_> popey: I am here now. See above
<dogmatic69_> ahayzen: I have apt update'ed and believe I am as up to date as possible.
<dogmatic69_> It crashes even when not in use. Lock screen and come back earlier and its dead.
<dogmatic69_> crashed last night sometime (always leave it running)
<dogmatic69_> I use it to rdp to my laptop for comfort, has crashed 3 times with only a single rdp session running
<awilkins> What's the GPU?
<awilkins> IME hard crashes are faulty hardware, or GPU drivers
<ahayzen> bug 1674838 and bug 1680904 were two that i was referring too. I'd check your syslog and dmesg for anything around the time of the crashes
<lubotu3> bug 1674838 in linux-hwe-edge (Ubuntu Zesty) "kernel BUG at /build/linux-7LGLH_/linux-4.10.0/include/linux/swapops.h:129" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1674838
<lubotu3> bug 1680904 in linux (Ubuntu Zesty) "zesty unable to handle kernel NULL pointer dereference" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1680904
<awilkins> I've had hardware that worked well enough on Windows but failed on Linux because it can challenge the hardware a bit more in some ways
<awilkins> Memtest86 revealed broken memory. As it happened you could even see it in the Windows boot animation - a line of corruption in the Windows logo
<dogmatic69_> awilkins: it was not crashing on wednesday when I was running 16
<dogmatic69__> just crashed when I clicked system...
<awilkins> dogmatic69__, A friend has had a similar experience with 17
<dogmatic69__> IntelÂ® Coreâ¢ i5-4570S CPU @ 2.90GHz Ã 4
<awilkins> He went back to 16 also
<awilkins> To me it sounds suspiciously like GPU problems
<dogmatic69__> great...
<dogmatic69__> ye, one crash the screen whet all corrupt
<dogmatic69__> but that one I was able to drop to shell and get it fixed
<popey> sounds to me like ram issue
<popey> dogmatic69__: run a memtest maybe?
<dogmatic69__> BTW I have 2x GeForce GTX 550 Ti's that been running for around 2 years.
<dogmatic69__> popey: Can do, will run one overnight
<dogmatic69__> I get it sounds like memory issue etc, or hardware. but that it started exactly when I installed 17. Before this my uptime was pushing 3 months
<popey> bummer
<diplo> Rebooting after a long spell does sometimes show up hardware faults
<diplo> I have a server I need to reboot with a 4year+ uptime and I'm dreading it.
<dogmatic69__> so it crashed again and figured I would run the mem test.
<dogmatic69__> well that crashed at 24%
<dogmatic69__> :|
<dogmatic69__> seems like a common fault, will try later with this disabled https://superuser.com/questions/876946/memtest-freezing-at-16-percent
<popey> maybe try with half the ram removed
<popey> then again with the other half removed
<popey> (and yes, the first half put back)
 * Seeker` gets out a hacksaw to cut his ram in half
<dogmatic69__> will try after work and see what I can sort
<awilkins> I have had RAM issues that only showed up on Linux
<awilkins> Because Windows at the time only used certain CPU instructions for memory stuff and Linux used more
<dogmatic69_> popey: have run mem test, 100% pass
<dogmatic69_> pc also crashed 3 times in 15 minutes since...
<dogmatic69_> switching from xorg to nvidia
<foobarry> can i run arm7 binaries on arm8?
<foobarry> i think the answer is "depends"
<zmoylan-pi> inversly proportional to how important it is that they run? :-P
<daftykins> ali1234: sorry, been quite AWOL! interesting about intel RST, a mate had a samsung 850 EVO that was causing him major issues, worked fine for me so i first told him to update BIOS, then wipe - been fine since
<ali1234> wiping probably got rid of RST...
<ali1234> it was installed in the OEM - it's a samsung laptop. i thought it has a sshd, but actually it has a regular hdd and a 8GB ssd soldered to the motherboard
<ali1234> they've modified rst too
<ali1234> it will only accept some ancient version from 2012
<ali1234> works fine after removing it though
<ali1234> so now i dont need to do a clean install, hopefully
<daftykins> oh yeah i wasn't disputing that, he wanted me to pop over and check it out but did it via messages in the end XD
<daftykins> err you should avoid factory installs 100% of the time
<ali1234> i know but the install is 5 years old and i dont want to reinstall everything
<ali1234> its super annoying that a samsung ssd doesn't work with a samsung laptop and the samsung factory install
<ali1234> but what can you do...
<daftykins> there a reason it's getting 7? tinfoil hattery over 10? i've got a good 7 image i modified myself that installs almost all the updates you need out of the box
<ali1234> its always had 7
<daftykins> and?
<ali1234> its my mum's and she won't learn how to use 10
<ali1234> its taken her 5 years to learn how to use 7
<daftykins> shame, already stuff taking advantage of 7 that's fine under 10
<daftykins> anywho my super handy 7 ISO and update pack to get over Windows Update's woes is available for a limited time only! as i likely have to leave home and go sleep at my olds shortly
<daftykins> all moved out of the hotel this morning and now i'm this far - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pTHyfx2mc00
<daftykins> i'm relaxing in front of S4C in HD, they haven't said 'Chris Waddle' yet though so i'm sad
<brobostigon> daftykins: my welsh is abit lacking, so its always challenging to understand.
<daftykins> ja first time i discovered it was after getting in after a few jars with the lads in my youth, i was SO confused that i could only pick up one in every few words
<brobostigon> :)
<zmoylan-pi> and that was when daftykins was speaking... :-P
<daftykins> do not mock my finest Guernsiase, sir!
<daftykins> ah the island was full of Frenchies today, sacrÃ© bleu
<zmoylan-pi> you weren't told the secret deal for brexit to give it back? #startingRumours
<daftykins> nooooo
<daftykins> they'll change our clocks
<zmoylan-pi> we'll have to frenchie up you irc nick leDaftykins
<daftykins> hawhehawhehaw!
<brobostigon> an change my nick from brobostigon to DonBrobostigon. lol.
<daftykins> :D
<brobostigon> :)
<brobostigon> or "holy roman emporer brobostigon", :), woops, already taken.
<zmoylan-pi> on plus side, you can really give up on been polite to... well anyone... :-P
<zmoylan-pi> and with brexit you'll be in prime location for smuggling... there's a fortune to be made smuggling german car parts into the uk... :-)
<daftykins> i'm gonna buy a boat!
<brobostigon> holy roman emporer daftykins, resuurect the holy roman empire and make the best of it, :)
<daftykins> toga on backorder
<brobostigon> and headgear, and sandles.
<zmoylan-pi> may i suggest a boat name... 'innocent fishing vessel' :-)
<brobostigon> and not something like, 'son of titanic'
<zmoylan-pi> ford pinto... that'll stop the american navy ramming into you...
<brobostigon> i should have said, theresa may, woops..
<brobostigon> if you name your boat 'theresa may' they will automaticlly nickname it the titanic.
<brobostigon> :)
<daftykins> it'll be unsinkable as long as you don't call an election
<zmoylan-pi> and hope it's a hard skinned boat as passing tories will jab it with boat hooks in reflex action
<brobostigon> or 'david cameron' for that matter.
<zmoylan-pi> i saw a curragh in boat yard when i had a wander in dun laoire recently... you don't usually see them this side of the island
<brobostigon> remeber the tory sinkings in the 90's which concluded in the 97 landslide, thats going to happen pretty soon.
<zmoylan-pi> they may be able to blame the dup when the ship hits the rocks... it's often the propping up party that gets the blame... see the libdems for details
<zmoylan-pi> but by then the dup will have a few billion worth of investment in northern ireland giving them votes for a few more decades over the uup
<brobostigon> the libdems went in it for the right reasons, they wanted good change, only difference here is the DUP getting into it for the convienence of the tories, nothing more.
<zmoylan-pi> the dup is getting into it for the convenience of the dup...
<brobostigon> agreed.
<zmoylan-pi> right now they are up a certain creek without a paddle due to cash for ash... the hung parliment is a lifeline to them.  nothing can go without them in london
<zmoylan-pi> sinn fein has demanded their leader step down... now they can step around their requirements
<zmoylan-pi> or they think they can
<zmoylan-pi> if the northern ireland assembly doesn't restart it could break the agreement in place there...
<zmoylan-pi> and then it will make current situation look... pleasent... :-/
<brobostigon> under the presumption because they support staying part of the uk and not staying part of the EU, presumption, it support the tories brexit view.
<zmoylan-pi> i've seen 'ra graffitti pop up around here in last week...
<zmoylan-pi> it /funded/ the tory brexit campaign using loopholes
 * brobostigon is a socialist, he likes to support the sciences like CERN and the ESA etc, all this tory twoddle about leaving the EU donkeys all that goo work.
<brobostigon> i studied computer engineering an physics btw.
<zmoylan-pi> nice that france is offering asylum to poor american scientists...
<brobostigon> just like we did, of jewish scientists within ww2.
<brobostigon> and polish scientists,
<zmoylan-pi> ireland had heisenberg teaching classes during 'the emergency' iirc
<brobostigon> as in the teacher of quantum mechanics?
<zmoylan-pi> maybe... :-P
<brobostigon> werner heisenberg?
<brobostigon> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Werner_Heisenberg
<zmoylan-pi> hold on, must be my brain acting up... let me look it up...
<brobostigon> i prefer the dane niels bohr.
<brobostigon> i prefer the dane 'niels bohr'.
<zmoylan-pi> i do like how they hid his nobel prize during wwii
<brobostigon> i di not know that.
<brobostigon> i did not know that.
<brobostigon> hehe, i can get star trek graphic novels on my kindle, :)
<daftykins> g'night folks \o more painting to do this weekend
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<brobostigon> o/
<daftykins> must make a house a home ^_^
<brobostigon> can i borrow you daftykins when me and my wife to be, get a house, please,?
<zmoylan-pi> you just throw a house warming party starting at 0800 and ending at 2300 and give everyong a brush, shovel depending on the job you need doing... painting, gardening etc...
<brobostigon> hehe, yeah, :D
 * zmoylan-pi has filled a long skip with rubble at one such event...
<brobostigon> :)
 * zmoylan-pi wanders off for a shower...
#ubuntu-uk 2017-06-17
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<diddledan> what has everyone got their fathers for tomorrow?
<brobostigon> some of his favorite beer, :)
<diddledan> +1
<diddledan> favorite beer is a good choice
<brobostigon> :)
<popey> diddledan: memories only, sadly.
<diddledan> :-(
 * diddledan cuddles popey 
<brobostigon> :(
<DJones> diddledan: A card so far (given that he's in Majorca until next weekend)
<DJones> ok, somebody turn the heat down https://goo.gl/ccioTT guage is in full sun
<gooloydmoon> hello excuse me but i can't register don't know why
<gooloydmoon> i registered myself but when i try to access international channel i keep being redirected to unregged channel
<gooloydmoon> i copy paste my really really easy question
<gooloydmoon> cause i'm a lazy guy.
<gooloydmoon> Hello. Running Ubuntu 16.04 LTS . I noticed now firefox 54.0 does not support flash player anymore. i can't watch anymore streaming movies because audio is ok but video is so slow!!! please just help me to solve this situation.
<gooloydmoon> well i tryied to use vlc for that purpose..i'm not a linux fan but that's the computer i have at the moment.
<gooloydmoon> no luck at all.
#ubuntu-uk 2017-06-18
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
#ubuntu-uk 2018-06-11
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<brobostigon> o/
<zmoylan-pi> be careful out there, there's a monday just waiting to get you...
<marshmn> so... you know how the Ubuntu theme for Gnome has a slight brown colour to everything? like the top bar and drop-downs and things? which is nice and all that - but how would one go about getting rid of that?
<zmoylan-pi> change the theme?
<marshmn> yes please
<marshmn> at least I think that's what I want
<marshmn> I've changed the 'Applications' theme in the Tweaks tool to be 'Adwaita dark' - but that still leaves a brown coloured top bar and other various things like that which don't fit well with it
<marshmn> hmmm, maybe I need to change the 'Shell' theme?
<marshmn> lunch break over now... I'll try that tonight
 * daftykins nudges diddledan 
<diddledan> artanoon
<daftykins> hello sir, how goes it?
<diddledan> good good ta
<daftykins> :D excellent
<daftykins> so i got this zip backup of that questionable wordpress site of my friends wifes, wondered what you would wanna charge and whether it's best to be thrown online to look over, or if just the zip is fine
<daftykins> since obviously hosting it when it's questionable is the wobbly part
<diddledan> yeah, best to investigate before you put it open to the public
 * diddledan /msgs daftykins 
 * daftykins nods
<diddledan> so, while I was in the states earlier in the year, I accidentally subscribed to youtube red. now I get their tv originals.. been watching https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCgLQkRAZsFN6fhqxFyx8qhQ
<diddledan> show called "impulse"
<daftykins> ooh-err
<daftykins> you uh
<daftykins> sign up on impulse did you?
 * daftykins ducks
 * diddledan groans
<diddledan> also, black panther blurry arrived today \i/
<daftykins> ooh funky, i have not seen
<diddledan> why does the tech press have such a canoe in their pocket about wireless charging?? eg. https://www.techradar.com/news/wireless-charging-active-edge-tipped-for-the-google-pixel-3
<zmoylan-pi> becuase they're obsessed with wireless everything?
<diddledan> I vote for wireless landlines
<zmoylan-pi> the average pleb takes 3 goes to plug in usb cable to charge, think how many times for drunk it journalist... :-)
<daftykins> xD
<zmoylan-pi> probably why they don't miss the headphone jack... for them it was just something to waste 10 attempts plugging in power cable... :-P
<marshmn> I'd like wireless charging
<zmoylan-pi> i'd prefer a dock like palm had in 90s
<zmoylan-pi> drop in, press button, every thing backed up and synced
<marshmn> yeah, that was nice
<marshmn> I miss Palm
<marshmn> I'd be happy with that for phone
<marshmn> it doesn't have to be wireless necessarily - just easy to slot in
<zmoylan-pi> bonus was that palm dock left it at useable angle display next to pc
<marshmn> yep
<zmoylan-pi> stylus was a decent method for inputting text with graffitti
<zmoylan-pi> ran for a week of 2 aaa batteries
<zmoylan-pi> ...and beaming
<marshmn> maybe we could start a village where we live with '90s technology
<marshmn> like a '90s version of Amish
<zmoylan-pi> it's called my gaff :-)
<zmoylan-pi> i'm looking at getting a palm os device...
<marshmn> really nice to code for too
<marshmn> probably had the most fun coding for Palm than pretty much any platform
<zmoylan-pi> i hear someone is making a palm branded piece of hardware this year... probably android though
<daftykins> although you don't need backup and sync anymore given online services :)
<zmoylan-pi> https://www.cnet.com/news/verizon-could-sell-a-palm-phone-in-2018/
<daftykins> not even file really, if you run something like nextcloud taking photos automatically etc
<zmoylan-pi> i don't want my data in the cloud thank you very much
<daftykins> well i run my own nextcloud instance at home, so... it's fine thank you, sir! :)
<daftykins> and i agree!
<zmoylan-pi> i'd like to do that.  but the maintenance overhead feels like it would end up like email in the 90s-00s where every week there was a whole new bunch of attacks you had to watch for
<marshmn> do you take the horse and cart down to the village to fetch your milk too?
<zmoylan-pi> milkman delivers to this house. what are we peasents?! :-)
<marshmn> I think you have to call them milkpeople now
<zmoylan-pi> i've never met a milkwoman... too much sense to have an outdoor job that has you out in dark in winter in most horrible weather
<daftykins> zmoylan-pi: standard maintenance of an 18.04 server instance, then occasional one click updates in the nextcloud web admin which the desktop client here on Windows tells me about, it's not too bad :D
<zmoylan-pi> i do have a pi 3 that i mean to set up to replace my original pi b. if/when i do i intend to make it do a fair bit more than the current pi
<daftykins> standard ubuntu server installs seem to still be a bit less than ideal on Pi's
<zmoylan-pi> it's a pi, someone has sorted out the next/own cloud workings... and documented it :-)
<daftykins> no that's not my point, i meant that it seems there's not a truly stock and normal way of just throwing on a standard 18.04 image that has most standard packages available
<daftykins> much prefer configuring instances from the ground up, too - rather than having a hand held :>
<marshmn> the amount of different chat apps one needs is starting to get out of hand :/
<marshmn> I have XChat for IRC, Slack, Gitter, Discord, WhatsApp...
<daftykins> indeed
<zmoylan-pi> irc... that is all...
<ali1234> it's true. ubuntu is not simple to install on a pi
<ali1234> you have several choices: you can use the full snap image (literally you can only install snaps on this)
<ali1234> you can use the images made by ubuntu MATE
<ali1234> or you can use the sort-of-official-but-not-really-and=btw-not-supported-at-all server image made by canonical, which i don't think exists for 18.04
<marshmn> I see that in the WiFi connection settings nowadays, there is an option for "Restrict background data usage" - which sounds handy if your WiFi is a hotspot from a mobile phone or whatever
<marshmn> is there any info on what things are actually restricted by this?
<marshmn> a quick Google didn't throw up much
<ali1234> on android it prevents apps from using any data when the app is not currently being used or the phone is locked (ie app must be visible on screen)
<marshmn> sure
<ali1234> it expect it does something similar on ubuntu, i know they made a thing to suspend background apps for ubuntu-touch
<marshmn> just not sure if it's as easy for them to do that on Ubuntu without it breaking stuff
<ali1234> well, tbh, no
<ali1234> ubuntu isn't android, most software does not expect to be sandboxed and restricted
<marshmn> just wondering whether it's really a usable setting or whether I'm likely to cause myself more pain than it's worth by ticking it
<ali1234> so it will break in weird ways
<ali1234> either that or it will have no effect on most apps
<ali1234> it probably only works with snaps/flatpaks/both
<marshmn> I was using my laptop through 4G one time and ran out of data; paid Â£12 for another 500MB... 15 mins later it was all gone again... turned out a Windows VM in VirtualBox was doing updates :/
<ali1234> windows: not even in virtualbox
<ali1234> andgiven the way virtualbox hooks into the kernel to provide virtual devices, i really doubt that setting will work with it
<marshmn> quite
<ali1234> i am running xubuntu 18.04 and i have not seen that setting so i guess it is a gnome thing
<marshmn> yeah, seems so
<marshmn> "Right now, in this release, it simply stops auto-update from kicking in."
<marshmn> just found that
<ali1234> better than nothing :)
<marshmn> seems that it's a Gnome 3.28 feature
<marshmn> it feels a bit like one of those options that I'll turn on now, and then in 6 months time be wondering why the hell something's not working right :-)
<daftykins> bah fasthosts do not permit a DNS TXT record of "_acme-challenge" which is required for wildcard certificates from LetsEncrypt :/
<diddledan> well fooey
<daftykins> i wonder if they're doing it so you'll buy one of theirs :O
<diddledan> possibly
<diddledan> there's no technical reason they'd be unable to do it IMO
<daftykins> mmm the control panel just claims it's an invalid host
<daftykins> when creating the TXT record
<diddledan> try _acme-challenge.full.example.com
<diddledan> and if that fails try with a . on the end
<daftykins> ah well to the right of the input box it shows ".example.com" and it errors against _acme-challenge. so it seems pretty certain
<diddledan> maybe it's the underscore it doesn't like
<daftykins> yeah, worked fine without
<daftykins> but of course that fails verification xD
<diddledan> aye
<daftykins> hehe i couldn't be bothered to wait so i just signed in with my gmail on that webmasters page, claimed ownership and submitted a request to be rechecked :D
<daftykins> it made me enter a bit of info on what i did to resolve the issues
<daftykins> says up to 72 hours :O
<diddledan> bah
<daftykins> kinda amusing that of the big 3, (chrome,Firefox,Edge) Edge is the only one to not care and show the site anyway xD
#ubuntu-uk 2018-06-12
<daftykins> diddledan: haha google's page lets you download a CSV of where the malware is! check out this list
<daftykins> Security issue type,URL,Date,Sample snippet
<daftykins> that's it!
<diddledan> nice
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<brobostigon> o/
<daftykins> diddledan: ugh fasthosts support are all "yeah we don't support special characters in the hosts field" what rubbish
<diddledan> _ is defined in RFC. therefore it is not a special character
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> i have subtly hinted that their decision gives the air that they are trying to ensure customers pay them for certs, therefore i may have to take my (friends) business elsewhere
<diddledan> :-)
<daftykins> *maybe* if i did stick cloudflare in front they let you enter such a host though
<daftykins> wonder which RFC it is, i could blind 'em with documented science
<daftykins> https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc1464 look like that one
<mgdm> RFC1912 perhaps
<mgdm> "Allowable characters in a label for a host name are only ASCII letters, digits, and the `-' character."
<mgdm> Oh, hmm, I misread - as _ >_<
<diddledan> possibly: https://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2782.txt
<diddledan> that details srv records
<daftykins> hrmm it definitely pertains to a TXT creation though, annoyingly
<daftykins> the manual method from the utility 'certbot' the EFF provide for LetsEncrypt certs definitely speaks only of creating _acme-challenge.example.com
<daftykins> all is not lost as i could just give up on obtaining a wildcard cert - but it'd be nice
<daftykins> thanks for the input btw guys, as always :)
<daftykins> yep their support has just come back and said NOPE not doing it
<diddledan> https://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc1033.txt
<diddledan> see "NAMES" in that document
<daftykins> ooh beauty :D an explicit mention!
<daftykins> diddledan does indeed deserve many doshes
<diddledan> and that paragraph is about "restricting" beyond what the protocol allows: "The domain system allows a label to contain any 8-bit character." <-- ANY character
<daftykins> just replied with that in the ticket, told them they're breaking spec :)
 * zmoylan-pi suspects they'll respond with something that can't be printed in unicode... :-P
<daftykins> yeah, most likely :) and then they will see their business disappear
<daftykins> i wonder if i really need the full 'sendmail' package on this VPS just to allow contact forms etc to send from apache
<mgdm> daftykins: you might want to look into something like nullmailer
<daftykins> oh ja?
<mgdm> assuming you have access to mail servers you can relay through https://untroubled.org/nullmailer/
<mgdm> it pretends to be sendmail/qmail/postfix but isn't a full MTA
<daftykins> well they're small sites of a friends i've taken off hosting company's services that were charging an arm and a leg - and am moving them to their own digitalocean VPS instead
<mgdm> Ah, I'm not sure if DO will provide a mail relay
<lopta> brb, fancy coffee
<daftykins> mgdm: nah just letting the sites email straight out tends to do the job
<daftykins> lopta: :o i would enjoy details of this fancy coffee :D
<mgdm> daftykins: ah, in that case nullmailer won't be what you want
<daftykins> it's that sender rewriting thing y'know so that they get contact form stuffs from their sites
<mgdm> Ahhh yes
<mgdm> I found that tends not to work well in these days of SPF and DKIM
<daftykins> mmm more info online that folk just install either sendmail (metapackage) or sendmail-bin alone
<daftykins> yeah, makes sense - these sites will get a redesign soon though so i'll just flag up the idea something smarter need be employed :)
<mgdm> :thumbs-up:
<mgdm> Oh this isn't slack :P
<daftykins> i'd dump the whole forms myself and just put the phone # and a 'sendto:' email addy so folk can do it themselves :D
<daftykins> ones a personal blog for a mates wife - and the other is a holiday cottages website
<daftykins> as it is the latter employs just a mail forwarder right now, however i will move her to google G Suite for all of the Â£40/yr to make life simpler
<daftykins> lol @ a yahoo as it is now xD
<diddledan> daftykins: postfix ootb works great on an ubuntu system - they provide simple default config choice when you install it
<daftykins> diddledan: ah i don't fancy a full on-box mail solution though, as they won't be after full services
<daftykins> diddledan: you win the prize! that forced them to look into it - and they created it manually :D
<diddledan> nice
<daftykins> although they messed up the paste and put in a quote at the end
<marshmn> is there a way to tell whether my laptop is using 2.4Ghz or 5Ghz WiFi?
<marshmn> I'm pretty much assuming that it's not even capable of 5Ghz TBH - but it would be useful to be certain which it's using
<marshmn> (trying to debug something)
<z0mbiebreakfast> -ex
<daftykins> marshmn: looking up the chipset in use should show, if 'iwconfig' still exists it would often show network info iirc
<marshmn> daftykins: ah, yes - you're right; in fact it does seem that I'm on 5GHz after all
<marshmn> thanks
<daftykins> pretty sure fasthosts fixed the ability to add a TXT record with _ in, but their support is lying saying it worked fine for them xD
<daftykins> despite my screenshot of the error
#ubuntu-uk 2018-06-13
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zmoylan-pi> [o/
<brobostigon> o/
<diplo> Morning all
<diddledan> sleepy kitten https://twitter.com/EmrgencyKittens/status/1006855239843147776
<daftykins> diddledan: D:
<daftykins> diddledan: this type is much nicer - https://dafty.rocks/nextcloud/index.php/s/A6W4BNz5y746yaQ
#ubuntu-uk 2018-06-14
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<brobostigon> o/
<marshmn> I'm giving Wavebox a try as a solution for managing windows for multiple Slack channels/WhatsApp/Gitter/Discord
<marshmn> first impressions are pretty good
<Azelphur> Anyone know anything about all the cheap tablets / laptop 2-in-1s that are floating around cheap? Can they run Linux ok?
<daftykins> got any example links?
<Azelphur> daftykins: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CHUWI-Hi10-10-1-INCH-Tablet-PC-Windows-10-Android-5-1-Intel-4GB-64GB-Keyboard/192318999374?hash=item2cc71b0b4e:g:arUAAOSw2N1ZzMSa
<daftykins> i don't even like Star Wars but i wanna say "easy, CHUWI!"
<Azelphur> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/VOYO-Vbook-i3-2-in-1-Tablet-PC-intel-Quad-Core-8GB-Ram-128GB-Rom-10/32860800749.html
<Azelphur> is also interesting
<Azelphur> the idea of a little 1080p laptop that can run Linux and charge off USB for not much Â£ seems very interesting.
<daftykins> mmm, surprisingly not utterly rubbish specs too - although the CPU is a 2W atom https://ark.intel.com/products/93361/Intel-Atom-x5-Z8350-Processor-2M-Cache-up-to-1_92-GHz
<Azelphur> yea, for browsing, coding, movie watching, etc, it'd be fine
<daftykins> well, depending on hardware assisted format decode support ja
<daftykins> so the only thing that comes to mind is the usual EFI drama then
<daftykins> also feeling a bit dumb that i'm not 100% sure up front if it's x86 or ARM
<daftykins> would've thought cherry trail atoms are x86
<Azelphur> they are x86 afaik
<Azelphur> just don't wanna buy one and have it not work, because then the laptops an overpriced brick to me
<daftykins> can't really go wrong with the Â£100 one either way
<Azelphur> well, I can if it doesn't work and then it's Â£100 down the drain ;)
<daftykins> even if the pictured keyboard layout is 'muricanese!
<daftykins> i doubt you'd have any problem selling it on, and you're only talking 'doesn't work with Linux' rather than doesn't work entirely
<daftykins> i'd be more than up for hearing how you get on and suggesting anything
<daftykins> or even running it by a genius i know who assisted bypassing 32-bit EFI hassles in the past
<Azelphur> I think there's more than just EFI issues, there's other issues too relating to hardware, wifi, etc.
<daftykins> we can only hope they stopped doing that, but this is the exact kinda machine that would be likely to have that if it is still out there
<daftykins> oh yeah, but that's your primary one :>
<Azelphur> I'd ideally like to pick something up and have it ready to use next week sort of thing :P
<Azelphur> rather than might work sometime maybe if the drivers get fixed
<Azelphur> there's a lot of devices in this class, surprised nobody has documented them
 * daftykins stares and blinks
<daftykins> then you need to stop trying to save a few quid i'm afraid
<daftykins> well there's just so much eastern tat out there now, eh
<Azelphur> suppose lol
<zmoylan-pi> even the non eastern tat is probably made in china... :-)
<daftykins> Azelphur: think i'd rather buy a Â£200 ebay Lenovo laptop refurb, you can get 4th gen intel (haswell) machines with 8GB and SSDs :)
<zmoylan-pi> they do seem like the best option right now... very good spec for a nice price
<zmoylan-pi> with a proper keyboard and not the new namby pamby wishy washy super flat crapfests that are modern laptop keyboards....
<daftykins> and still (i think) have BIOS updates for spectre, etc yep
<zmoylan-pi> i'm sure the updates install the latest backdoors /tinfoilHat :-)
<daftykins> ;)
<diddledan> who does games on loonicks?
<daftykins> optimists, i think
<diddledan> if it's you, try `sudo snap install --edge gog-galaxy-wine; sudo snap connect gog-galaxy-wine:hardware-observe; sudo snap connect gog-galaxy-wine:process-control; gog-galaxy-wine`
<daftykins> diddledan: finally got the wordpress pass \o/ deleted that old host user and updated a plugin \o/
<diddledan> yey
<daftykins> any advice on changing wp-content/ image URLs to be https along with the rest of the site o0 i've edited the sorta main site settings for its' self references, but would past uploads require database edits?
<diddledan> the hello dolly and akismet are not in use by the site, but they come with any fresh WordPress
<daftykins> yep, know 'em well from my days running mine :) (which i retired)
<diddledan> https://en-gb.wordpress.org/plugins/better-search-replace/ is the go-to - install that, activate and use it with the full old URL into it and the full new URL - e.g. "search for" http://old.example.com, and "replace with" https://awesome.example.com
<daftykins> ooh thank ye
<diddledan> that'll also replace any internal links in posts and pages with the new url
<daftykins> \o/
<daftykins> done and done \o/
<diddledan> hah, just got a mailing lists email about a job for a "senior site reliability engineer".. working "remotely".. doesn't the whole "site" bit require that you not be remote?
<daftykins> what if it's a website!
<ali1234> yes but the "senior" part implies you just make your junior do all the work
<diddledan> aha
<diddledan> WORK, PEON!
 * diddledan cracks the whip
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> lopta: hey \o all well?
<daftykins> diddledan: informational PM btw sir
<lopta> hello daftykins!
<lopta> I tried Ubuntu Server on my 32-bit test rig but it wouldn't boot.
<daftykins> d'aww
<lopta> (even into the installer)
<daftykins> 18.04?
 * diddledan categorises, collates, and catalogues the pm
<daftykins> probably a PAE issue
<lopta> 16.04.4
<daftykins> do you know the CPU it has?
<diddledan> daftykins: what did Dubai do to upset 32bit computers?!!!
<lopta> 1 GHz VIA #c
<lopta> C3*
<diddledan> oh, wait, PAE, not UAE
 * lopta nods
<lopta> brb, phone
<daftykins> i think it's too late for a system of that age i'm afraid, you could look into the 'forcepae' kernel boot parameter, but it looks like the VIA C3's won't work
<diddledan> 32bit is dead in the water these days
 * lopta nods
<diddledan> even pfsense has killed 32bit
<lopta> It still works for BSD but I could spend some money and put a 64-bit board in it.
<daftykins> alternatively if it's not online, you could run an outdated, thus EOL, OS
<lopta> At present it's not connected to the Internet.
<diddledan> or, run a REALLY outdated EOL OS that is so old the haxx0rs have forgotten about it
<lopta> I suppose upgrading the board would let me move up to gigabit Ethernet, too.
<diddledan> mmm, jiggerwatts
<daftykins> if all the parts inside match age wise, i'd be concerned about the PSU's capabilities for throwing a new motherboard in
<diddledan> I'm betting Christopher Lloyd calls them Jiffs, too
<lopta> 180W SFX (it's an mATX desktop)
<diddledan> them images**
<lopta> Well, formerly a desktop ;-)
<lopta> I should be back later this evening.
#ubuntu-uk 2018-06-15
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<brobostigon> o/
<zmoylan-pi> for all the blues brothers fans, matt guitar murphy died... :-( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matt_Murphy_(blues_guitarist)
<daftykins> awww
#ubuntu-uk 2018-06-16
<brobostigon> morning boy and girls.
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<brobostigon> o/
<marshmn> o/
<ali1234> interest... the steal message alert thing appears to stop counting at 101 items :)
<ali1234> *steam
<marshmn> I'm giving some Google 'mesh' WiFi adapters a try... (replacing previous TP-Link powerline network) - seems OK so far, but early days...
<marshmn> very nice and easy to configure
<marshmn> and I already see some benefits - with my powerline WiFi adapters there seemed to be some issues with uPNP traffic not getting passed through very well (resulting in not being able to use Noson to control Sonos speakers)
<marshmn> that seems to work fine with the new setup
<daftykins> the earlier adapters possibly didn't handle things at a low enough level, although to my mind the idea of wireless packets hopping multiple times is horrible - much rather wired infrastructure and access points centralised to a switche - but granted you might be renting or some such and not have that option
<daftykins> s/switche/switch/
 * penguin42 is surprised they had problems with uPNP - I'd assumed they were layer2
<daftykins> yeah i can't think what's up with that
<daftykins> i think lower end ones can fail to handle broadcast traffic of types o0
<marshmn> I'm renting - so yes, my options are limited
<marshmn> I think that with the powerline adapters the uPNP traffic wasn't passed between the 2.4GHz and 5GHz networks
<marshmn> at least that's my guess
<marshmn> Sonos devices only operate on 2.4GHz (I believe) and my laptop was on 5GHz
#ubuntu-uk 2018-06-17
<ball> I should hide indoors tomorrow.
<ball> Forecast high is 36C
<penguin42> about twice here
<ball> I should get up early to water the veg.
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zmoylan-pi> morning mammals...
<brobostigon> morning mostly water
<daftykins> om nom nom Wine Gums!
 * penguin42 is more of a jelly baby type
<daftykins> :D
