#ubuntu-uk 2011-11-07
<Daviey> If someone sees ball, can they tell him to use #ubuntu-mythtv please
<MartijnVdS> Daviey: memoserv? :)
<florent_> Hello
<florent_> perhaps it is too early to speak
<florent_> i'm french and i research a computer scientist in oder to improve my english expression
<florent_> What's more, i want to understand little better ubuntu 11.10
<florent_> nobody ?
<zprood> hi
 * ball waves
<shauno> ball: 03:36 < Daviey> If someone sees ball, can they tell him to use #ubuntu-mythtv please
<shauno> also, morning o/
<ball> shauno: Thanks, I figured that out after I asked the question.  I appreciate passing on the message though.
<joar_>  #joar
<AlanBell> morning all
<ball> Morning AlanBell!
<czajkowski> aloha
<popey> yo
<AlanBell> good trip back?
<popey> yeah, all recovered
 * popey hugs landscape
<DJones> Morning all
 * ball waves
<TheOpenSourcerer> morning earthlings
<TheOpenSourcerer> Let's hope "they" are right and this asteroid that passes between us and the moon is going to miss ;-)
<shauno> the nerd in me thinks it'd be pretty neat if it hit the moon
<TheOpenSourcerer> "Scientists say the asteroid will miss us, but it will be barely more  than 200,000 miles away when it passes Earth at 11:13 p.m. Tuesday"
<TheOpenSourcerer> That sounds quite close to me...
<TheOpenSourcerer> http://www.dailygalaxy.com/my_weblog/2011/11/weekend-news-flash-nasa-resumes-observation-of-massive-asteroid-which-will-fly-by-earth-tuesday.html
<shauno> it's odd talking about close on that scale.  earth's only ~8000 miles wide
<popey> the universe is very very very big. 200K miles is _very_ close :D
<jml> try flying it in economy!
<hoover> good morning
<MooDoo> morning all
<diplo> morning all
<AlanBell> popey: figured out what you do yet?
<selinuxium> Good morning all    o/
<MooDoo> good weekend everyone?
<popey> yes AlanBell
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
 * ball waves
 * brobostigon waves back
<Laney> morning
<brobostigon> morning Laney
<Myrtti> moin
<brobostigon> moin Myrtti
<TheOpenSourcerer> Thunderbird & Firefox 8 are released tomorrow. Oh how I hate thee - quick release cycle with major version number change.
 * awilkins yawns and stretches now that his cavity wall insulation has been done
<AlanBell> TheOpenSourcerer: what happens if you just set the plugin to be compatible with thunderbird up to version 10 for example?
<TheOpenSourcerer> It might keep working. Then again it might not. ;-)
<popey> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-15611160
<diplo> TheOpenSourcerer, It's whats holding me back upgrading at the mo
<diplo> the version changes
<AlanBell> popey: glitter bang sparkle
<diplo> I use some of my plugins daily, don't want the chance of them breaking just to have newest
<TheOpenSourcerer> I could project support forward but not by much (only 9 and 10.0a1) currently: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/pages/appversions/
<TheOpenSourcerer> That was a manic and great firework display popey - I saw that yesterday. Kids thought it was great.
<AlanBell> ok, so no forward projecting by much if you want to be in the addon store
<TheOpenSourcerer> Even not in the store. Those numbers are what are "understood" by the app.
<TheOpenSourcerer> If I tried 10.* for exmaple it would barf.
<JamesTait> Morning all! May your Monday be magnificent! :)
<AlanBell> huh?? so how would an older version of the app use your latest plugin?
<TheOpenSourcerer> There is a min version
<TheOpenSourcerer> and a max version
<AlanBell> yes, so say I have current thunderbird 7.01, and I want to keep that
<TheOpenSourcerer> fine.
<AlanBell> and next year your app supports thunderbird 13 because it is allowed to then
<TheOpenSourcerer> min version is 3.something iirc
<AlanBell> would my thunderbird reject the plugin because it doesn't understand the max version?
<TheOpenSourcerer> I see. Dunno.
 * TheOpenSourcerer decides to do some more testing later.
 * ball is using a Webcam in Chippenham to test some application servers
<ikonia> ball: you're reasonably local to me
<ball> ikonia: Where are you?
<popey> O_O
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<MooDoo> morning
<bigcalm> popey: is that you jetlagged face?
<popey> hah, no jetlag here
<popey> \o/
<bigcalm> Yet
<ball> ikonia: Where are you?
<ball> I'll brb.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Melatonin FTW!
<DJones> Whoever has got the remote control for the heating, please use it and turn it up a few notches
<TheOpenSourcerer> +1 DJones - I have just donned my old baggy jumper
<TheOpenSourcerer> I refuse to heat the whole house when there's just me in one room.
<DJones> I'm not quite that cold, but I think the jumper will be needed when I go out for dinner
<DJones> Anybody interested in HP Touchpads, if your a registered webOS developer you can get a 32Gb Touchpad for Â£130 https://developer.palm.com/content/resources/develop/developer_device_program.html
<ali12341> hmm i might be one of those
<diplo> Got to be pre-registered DJones ?
<diplo> Loading page now
<diplo> but internet here is sssssooooooooo slooow
<DJones> I picked the report up about it from here http://www.reghardware.com/2011/11/07/hp_offers_devs_cheap_touchpad_tablets/
<DJones> "Signing up for a Developer Account is free, though you'll need a PayPal account"
<DJones> https://developer.palm.com/index.php?option=com_user&view=login&signup
<diplo> cheers
<diplo> may sign up just to try
<diplo> :)
 * TheOpenSourcerer is quite pleased with his touchpad.
 * TheOpenSourcerer is looking forward to getting CM7 or 9 on it though.
<directhex> TheOpenSourcerer, the irony is there are more touchpad apps than android tablet apps, since there are more webos tablets than android tablets sold
<TheOpenSourcerer> lol
<directhex> HP are accidentally #2 in the market behind apple
<ali12341> what is that i don't even
<ali12341> how many touchpad apps are there?
<AlanBell> defining tablet to be a fondleslab that isn't a phone?
<bigcalm> What's the native app language for WebOS tablet apps?
<ali12341> html5?
<bigcalm> Then that might contribute to there being more apps for WebOS
<ali12341> why?
<bigcalm> A lot of web devs know HTML/CSS. We don't really need to learn Objective C or Java
<AlanBell> https://twitter.com/#!/jonlech/status/110598881049452545
<bigcalm> :D
<bigcalm> Well, the linux desktop ideal is slowly getting there
<bigcalm> But I agree with that tweet
<ali12341> desktop is dead
<bigcalm> Long live the desktop!
<bigcalm> Why am I struggling to find a document holder? Are they not called that?
<DJones> You mean something like this http://www.google.co.uk/products/catalog?hl=en&sugexp=ppwl&cp=15&gs_id=1n&xhr=t&q=document+holder&gs_upl=&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_cp.,cf.osb&biw=1154&bih=667&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=shop&cid=15542777574166386784&sa=X&ei=M9y3TojvBorNhAeLh7ixBA&sqi=2&ved=0CHsQ8wIwAQ
<bigcalm> Yes. Except I need one with a g-clamp as I've run out of desk space
<DJones> If it is, probably better looking for "desktop copyholder"
<bigcalm> Ta :)
<DJones> Heh http://www.amazon.com/Kensington-Adjustable-Ergonomic-Copyholder-K62066/dp/B00006B8MX/ref=pd_sbs_op_19
<bigcalm> Think it would attach to a TFT?
<DJones> Looks like it needs a decent sized area to stick onto, TFT I've got in front of me only has about 2cm's depth on the side of the case
<DJones> There is this http://www.amazon.com/3M-Mounted-Holder-Capacity-DH445/dp/B00006IA8S/ref=pd_sbs_op_3
<DJones> When you search doe flat panel mount copyholder, seems to be loads of them
<DJones> s/doe/for
<bigcalm> Lunch time is here. Might pop out and have a look around Staples
<DJones> \o/ After the complete farce of new software providers saying that their system would do things and then finding out they wouldn't/couldn't, we've abandoned the system, lets see if we get any money back (although we do have a recorded conversation between their directors & ours admitting they'd mis-sold it)
<diplo> DJones, good luck, we went through that for months/years trying to get back 80k
<Myrtti> what is the current going price for webhosting for a small website that needs a) php b) mysql c) shell access with vi/vim and d) allows phpBB2 to be run in it?
<popey> hehe, that was all good till you said d)
<MooDoo> Myrtti: small vps from bitfolk?
<Myrtti> popey: d) is because I'm lazy and I have limited amounts of patience to try to migrate to phpBB3 without handhelding
<diplo> Shared hosting is going to be cheaper MooDoo ?
<diplo> I pay Â£4.50 a month for 150gb disc space/unlimited data
<DJones> diplo: I can believe it, luckily all our conversations are recorded and we've got mutiple recordings with admitting they sold us a product that wouldn't work & that they'd sacked teh sales rep
<Myrtti> mind you, the discussion forum does have traffic instead of being stagnant
<diplo> heh we were employing the guy who sold us it and it still went to court
<DJones> Ouch
<diplo> Yep, these people don't like giving up ( well this compnay )
<Myrtti> that didn't make much sense
<diplo> I use GoDaddy atm Myrtti as I said it's cheaper, hosted in the EU
<Myrtti> 2800 registered users, 226688 messages, seven years running
<diplo> 2800 registered, but how many active :)
<diplo> I've got 400-500 members of my forums, with 10 active now :D
<diplo> of=on
<Oli> popey (or other EMEA council bod): any news on when the 1st's membership meeting has been postponed to yet?
<popey> Oli: uhm. I am not on it anymore, ask czajkowski
<Oli> Oh right, my bad. Is that (your not being on it) recent?
<popey> fairly, yes
<Myrtti> diplo: ask again in a few hours, users are either at work or doing something else important at the moment, the peak comes after six o'clock
<Myrtti> diplo: only four at the moment
<diplo> heh
<diplo> yeah I don't have to watch load anymore, made life a lot easier..
<diplo> All because we all got old / had kids / no time.
<czajkowski> Oli: just finding out now, we were all at UDS last week.
<Oli> czajkowski: Thanks
<czajkowski> Oli: we'll contact the applicants when we figure out a day, alternatively you can add your name to the Americas board if that is sooner ok.
 * Laney just slipped on a pile of Ubuntu CDs
<funkyHat> Ubuntu CDs -- the new bananas?
 * Laney writes to hanna barbera
<ali12341> i think it's trying to snow
<dwatkins> it can't be that cold, surely?
<Myrtti> whoop.
<popey> erk
<daubers> Afternoon
<daubers> Is there a summary of all the big decisions made at UDS somewhere?
<MooDoo> how tall are you popey ?
<NET||abuse> Hi folks, having a weird time with 11.10, using 11.04 on laptop, and things are great, 11.10 is ok, but got some reaaaly odd stuff
<NET||abuse> when you alt-tab you get all the windows of a type up at the same time,
<NET||abuse> it's not really very good as it then makes it MORE difficult to switch between windows of that same type wihtout using th emouse
<NET||abuse> me == mostlykeyboard guy
<NET||abuse> secondly, trying to use the compiz screenshot tool, it's giving the blue overlay for the screenshot selector with the screenshot
<NET||abuse> eg.. http://www.ashe-browne.com/tmp/yahoo1.jpg and http://www.ashe-browne.com/tmp/yahoo2.jpg
<NET||abuse> You can see yahoo2.jpg has the blueness overlaid on it
<NET||abuse> the first is taken with regular PrtScn and cropped in gimp
<popey> MooDoo: why?
<NET||abuse> popey: he's mesurin yer cofin
<MooDoo> popey: lol no saw a pic of the loco council with you and czajkowski just wondering how tall the other chap is :)
<MooDoo> http://www.lczajkowski.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/ADBC3AFB97124FD9B528B1AFD3DCC86B-0000314218-0002618905-00800L-FAE48149541D4D81838FDC52CA1684D1.jpg
<jussi> that pic popey's eyes are like a devil...
<MooDoo> i just want to be the tallest ubuntu user in the world EVER!! :)
<mgdm> popey has stolen my tshirt!
<hutch> me 2  (I'm only 5'3") What R my chances?
<MooDoo> hehe
<awilkins> NET||abuse, With the task switcher, you can break into the list of similar windows by using the down arrow, and move between them with side arrows
<mgdm> http://twitpic.com/68x23y <-- me in same tshirt
<MooDoo> mgdm: hmmm why is popey wearing your clothes?
<NET||abuse> anyway, questions, can i configure any of these things?
<mgdm> MooDoo: it's worrying
<NET||abuse> awilkins: yeh i saw that, but it sucks as a shortcut, the efort required to context shift into alt-tabbing, and then hit down and left right between windows, it's too different
<NET||abuse> so it sucks
<NET||abuse> To me it feels like an interface getting in the way
<hutch> Is there a way to add dash home to cairo docck and remove side bar?
<diplo> NET||abuse, One of the reasons I've been trying Gnome3 :)
<NET||abuse> diplo: have you got compiz on gnome3 or does it have it's own compositing window decoration?
<nymwar> I'm using Gnome shell on 11.10
<diplo> MetacityI belive
<diplo> Same here nymwar
<nymwar> AFAIK it doesn't use compiz
<diplo> Metacity
<NET||abuse> hmm, anyway, issue at hand is i like the quick box selection in compiz screenshot
<NET||abuse> but it's giving me that blue colour
<hutch> compiz and metacity are differen't aren't they?
<NET||abuse> there's no options to turn off that blue overlay colour it uses in the ccsm config tool
<diplo> yeah
<NET||abuse> hutch: they have some kind of seperation of roles yeh
<diplo> Seems it's replaced by Mutter not metacity
<hutch> k
<diplo> ah, Mutter = Metacity+Clutter :)
<ali12341> NET||abuse: that's a known bug/race condition
<NET||abuse> ali12341: ah, so no fix currently?
<ali12341> the overlaw box doesn't disappear fast enough before the screenshot is taken, because for some reason copiz unity goes *really* slow on oneiric
<hutch> I'm waiting for mint to come out to try Gnome 3 alongside ubuntu
<NET||abuse> ali12341: really, wow, that sucks,
<NET||abuse> come on Canonical, get your shiiiiiii....p in order
 * NET||abuse forgot i have backspace
<ali12341> dragging windows between desktops is painful
<nymwar> agree
<ali12341> redraws about 1 frame per second, tries to snap to everything or half miximize
<ali12341> it wouldn't be so bad if the window placement was sensible or if it was possible to open windows when something is fullsreen on the left monitor
<nymwar> I think there's still some way to go before Unity is really usable
<hamitron> hopefully 5 months
<hamitron> ;)
<NET||abuse> it's usable, just has some,      character, yeh that's it
<hutch> lol
<ali12341> it's usable if you have infinite patience
<hamitron> for someone with very little, that counts me out :/
<ali12341> it gets frustrating when you are trying to do something on a deadline though
<nymwar> My gripes would be: easy ability to disable global menu, better workspace management, ability to change the position of the dock
<hamitron> I think I will find Unity better than expected
<hamitron> I've heard so much against it, I'm expecting the worst when I switch ;)
<nymwar> there also seems to be a tendency for things to maximize involuntarily
<hutch> I want to add dash home to cairo dock and remove side bar but can't move dash yet
<ali12341> it has started hiding fullscreen windows now for somer eason
<ali12341> never seen that before
<hamitron> :/
<directhex> i'm trying the wife on gnome shell.
<KrisDouglas> Hello
<KrisDouglas> I've switched to Unity 2D (on an NVidia 9600GT 1GB w/ binary drivers) and the system is about 80% faster.
<KrisDouglas> Im sure this isn't a good thing.
<daubers> directhex: You make it sound like a form of medication
<directhex> daubers, given her system is an atom netbook, it's more like massochism
<mgdm> it didn't work all that well on my netbook
<mgdm> the fans spent much of their time on
<ali12341> i keep hearing about how compositing desktops are so much faster because they offload work to the GPU
<ali12341> but there's one thing a GPU doesn't have and that is process management
<ali12341> so as soon as you have more than one thing using it, it grinds to a halt
<directhex> aha "don't run a bitcoin miner and fallout 3 at the same time"
<directhex> AKA, even
<ali12341> more like "don't try to run fallout 3 and compiz at the same time"
<ali12341> brb switching to unity2d
<Myrtti> oh come on Ubuntu, you can do it, all I did was press page down in my irssi...
 * Myrtti kicks the tablet a bit
<Myrtti> and now it crashes?
<ali1234> this is significantly faster
<ali1234> unfortunately there's no panel on the second monitor, so no way to unmaximize windows or access their menus
<popey> I played with a demo of unity on 6 screens at UDS
<ali1234> this isn't unity this is unity2d
<ali1234> need to reboot for updates
<hamitron> Dev: "ewwww, 2d, not working on that"
<AlanBell> unity2d is really really similar to unity 3d
<AlanBell> in fact, I flipped into 2d by accident and it took a couple of days before I bothered to investigate why the grid maximise thing wasn't working
<oimon1> is ther a way to get suspend/resume working with nvidia drivers? worked with nouveau 2d drivers but not proprietary ones
<Myrtti> is the friday night comedy special BBC4 podcast available only in UK? I think my gpodder is chocking on it
<popey> Myrtti: http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/podcasts/radio4/fricomedy/rss.xml
<popey> that one?
<Myrtti> looks about right, I got it from gpodder.net, it's quite high on the toplist
<MooDoo> christel: you causing netsplit issues again ;)
<Myrtti> MooDoo: it seems to have not been limited to freenode only
<MooDoo> woohoo :S
<Myrtti> atleast foonet and by some rumours efnet were effected as well
<Myrtti> so there must have been a great disturbance in the force
<Myrtti> oh man, and my unity crashes again. or compiz. or whatever
<christel> MooDoo:  http://blog.phyber.com/level3-outage-likely-juniper-bug
<christel> ;)
<MooDoo> ;)
<ali1234> that bunch of updates i just did seems to have really improved the speed problems
<ali1234> or maybe it is just because i rebooted
<popey> mgdm: threadless have free shipping for orders over 50 USD!
<mgdm> popey: !
<bigcalm> Oh dear
<popey> i just got their spam
<popey> very welcome spam it is!
<bigcalm> I got Subway spam saying that it was a double points Monday. But didn't get to go because Hayley is off sick :(
<mgdm> talking of spam, guess who I still get (unwelcome) spa from?
<bigcalm> Still?
<mgdm> Yes.
<bigcalm> Ugh
<bigcalm> popey: did you manage to stop the Adobe spam?
<mgdm> I resorted to the MTA
<popey> i block that now
<bigcalm> mgdm: bounce it back to them?
<mgdm> Yeah, I do
<mgdm> well, with a 550 'Bog off' type response
<bigcalm> :)
<bigcalm> popey: so are you working from home full time now?
<popey> bigcalm: yes
<bigcalm> Aha. You can join us for a workplace day in Wolverhampton on the 17th then ;)
<popey> hah
<bigcalm> Speaking of which, is davmor2 still alive?
<popey> yeah
<popey> I met mrs davmor2 too
<DJones> popey: Will you get one of the shiny "canonical" cloaks for irc
<MooDoo> popey: did you give her a hug for putting up with davmor2 ;)
<popey> nah, I'll keep my ubuntu one I reckon
<popey> MooDoo: my first words were "oh, I'm sorry"
<MooDoo> hehe
<bigcalm> :D
<mgdm> Am I the only one who thinks this whole Olympic torch relay thing is gigantic waste of time/effort/money/energy/all of the above?
<popey> s/torch relay//
<bigcalm> Oh you cynic ;)
<AlanBell> mgdm: http://twitter.com/#!/grumpygamemaker
<mgdm> popey: well, yes, but I was just reading about them taking a burning stick to various bits of the UK
<mgdm> AlanBell: hah! Nice :)
<bigcalm> AlanBell: you?
<AlanBell> I couldn't possibly say
<bigcalm> :)
<DJones> mgdm:
<DJones> https://twitter.com/#!/Queen_UK/status/133542278642937857
<mgdm> heheh
 * DJones digs out the sat nav & map after hearing that the motorway home has been closed until midnight after a serious accident
<MartijnVdS> DJones: google maps \o/
<mgdm> DJones: M56?
<DJones> Yep
<MartijnVdS> looks bad on the googles
<MartijnVdS> more north/east than south/westbound though
<DJones> Yeah, from what I've heard/read, HGV came off a road going above the M56 & crashed down onto the carriagway, cars then crashed into that, air ambulance in attendance
<DJones> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-15628177
<MartijnVdS> You're not having a good week on the motorways in England
<DJones> I go down that slip road every work day
<bigcalm> Can you give a <br /> a class?
<mgdm> bigcalm: probably, but... why? :)
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jo Shields] Bansheegeddon - http://apebox.org/wordpress/rants/398/
<bigcalm> mgdm: hide the line break from desktop sites and only show on mobiles
<AlanBell> directhex: I suggest you add an item to the community council agenda requesting them to review the way the default apps decision process works
<mgdm> bigcalm: Hmm
<bigcalm> mgdm: it's a horrible idea I know :)
<mgdm> rather :)
<bigcalm> Right now I'm trying to work out where about 300px of rhs padding it coming from. Makes the mobile version look silly
<mgdm> its' not to do with the viewport size and initial scale and all that?
<bigcalm> Newp
<bigcalm> The issue is only present on some pages
<bigcalm> Found it :)
 * bigcalm slaps a position:absolute; element
<bigcalm> Just noticed that it's half past home time
<Guntorian> hai
<Guntorian> anyone here to help me please
<AlanBell> hi Guntorian
<Guntorian> Hello
<Guntorian> I need some help
<Guntorian> I got an acer aspire 6935g
<Guntorian> and now im setting up a second moniter
<Guntorian> apart from the one on the laptop
<Guntorian> but im not sue how
<Guntorian> sure*
<AlanBell> just plug it in, and run the displays application, should be able to arrange them how you want there
<AlanBell> is it Ubuntu 11.10?
<Guntorian> yes
<Guntorian> it doesnt seem to be finding it
<Guntorian> when I started up the laptop and has to pick windows or ubuntu it showed
<Guntorian> but once ubuntu started it hasnt worked
<Guntorian> hello?
<AlanBell> just researching it a bit . . .
<Guntorian> ok np
<AlanBell> got any keyboard shortcuts like fn+f5 to turn it on?
<Guntorian> lemme try ( my internal keyboard is abit broken
<Guntorian> it worked
<Guntorian> but it came on
<Guntorian> and went off
<Guntorian> but now the led is blue not yellow of the monitor
<Guntorian> if I unplug the vga and put it back in the monitor comes on for like 1 second
<Guntorian> ._.
<AlanBell> is it perhaps set to a resolution the monitor can't support?
<AlanBell> gone!
<celesteh> hello, i am trying to install the remix os, which is an ubuntu fork
<celesteh> the download link on the official looking website links to a webpage that's all in russian and it seems a bit dodgy
<AlanBell> err, don't do that then
<celesteh> i guess there's not an easy way to tell if the site has been hacked?
<directhex> you'd need to ask the creators of that distribution
<celesteh> Are the on freenode?
<AlanBell> I have never heard of the distribution
<celesteh> i just got a new computer (switching from mac) and wanted to run puredyne, but that distro is too old for a new laptop
 * AlanBell has never heard of that either
<AlanBell> if you have any Ubuntu questions we might be able to help :)
<celesteh> i tried ubuntu studio earlier, but it seems to be mostly aimed at video and not audio
<celesteh> they're ubuntu forks. sorry, for being offtopic
<celesteh> it's my understanding that ubuntu cannot deal with real-time audio production without changing the kernel because it glitches?
<BigRedS> yeah, there was a real-time kernel I thought?
<mgdm> celesteh: depends what you're trying to do
<TheOpenSourcerer> WOW - Look at this graph of a hdd price: http://www.extremetech.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/CamelEgg1.png
<celesteh> supercollider and ardour, mostly
<TheOpenSourcerer> Apparently it will get worse too: http://www.extremetech.com/computing/103711-hdd-pricewatch-you-know-where-its-going-we-tell-you-how-much-its-going-to-hurt
<AlanBell> what is happening to SSD prices?
<MartijnVdS> not much change
<AlanBell> oh, last paragraph, not much
<daubers> Evening
<bigcalm> Morning
<celesteh> so where / how do i get a real time kernel?  (sorry for being a noob)
<MartijnVdS> celesteh: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuStudio/RealTimeKernel
<celesteh> ta, checking that out
<awilkins> SSD prices are dropping a bit
<awilkins> And with the HD price going up, the sweetspot price for a HD (GB / Â£) will now buy you a reasonably sized SSD
<awilkins> No good for mass media storage but 128GB SSDs are practical for system drives (even for Windows)
<daubers> awilkins: I wouldn't expect ssds to stay as they are for long. I'd expect them to go up a little bit if anything
<awilkins> daubers, Yeah. Someone will go "hey, people are still willing to overpay for storage..."
<MartijnVdS> this might be a trigger for SSD adoption
<Guntorian> Is anyone here to help me set up my dual monitor
<daubers> awilkins: That or the demand for them goes up and they won't be able to meet it (which is industry prediction at the moment)
<awilkins> Arsebiscuits
<MartijnVdS> if you need storage, by now, or wait until next July
<awilkins> I'll probably wait
<daubers> or buy last week and sell now
<Guntorian> hello?
<MartijnVdS> daubers: I'll get my Delorean
<daubers> Guntorian: Sorry, I only have a single monitor setup
<MartijnVdS> daubers: though I could probably fit more shipping containers in a TARDIS
<Guntorian> anyone?
<MartijnVdS> Guntorian: please just explain the problem
<MartijnVdS> Guntorian: if anyone thinks they can help they will
<Guntorian> ok
<Guntorian> I got an acer aspire 6935g
<Guntorian> and now I set up a monitor to it
<Guntorian> the Hyundai l91A
<Guntorian> and its not recognising it
<MartijnVdS> what kind of graphics card does it have/
<MartijnVdS> Intel? Nvidia? At?
<MartijnVdS> ati?
<Guntorian> nvidia
<MartijnVdS> Guntorian: some NVidia cards only recognise external monitors if they're connected before the machine is started
<MartijnVdS> Guntorian: also, you need to use the nvidia-settings tool
<Guntorian> the monitor was connected b4
<Guntorian> how do I use that
<MartijnVdS> Guntorian: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/BinaryDriverHowto/Nvidia
<MartijnVdS> Guntorian: also https://help.ubuntu.com/community/NvidiaMultiMonitors
<Guntorian> I already have recommended installed
<MartijnVdS> Guntorian: that second page explains how to set up a multi-monitor setup
<Guntorian> ok
<Guntorian> I got to the nvidia place
<Guntorian> but I got one problem
<Guntorian> what is twin monitor or seperate x screen
<_jane> wg
<MartijnVdS> Guntorian: it's explained on the web page
<MartijnVdS> Guntorian: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/NvidiaMultiMonitors#Differences
<Guntorian> im not understand seperate x screen
<MartijnVdS> Guntorian: it allows you to run two completely separate desktops (programs can't move from one screen to the other)
<MartijnVdS> Guntorian: it's probably not what you want
<Guntorian> oh thanks
<Guntorian> when I hit apply it only works for 1 second
<Guntorian> hmm?
<MartijnVdS> Guntorian: I don't know anything about nvidia drivers
<Guntorian> uhh
<Guntorian> omg ._>
<Guntorian> it like comes on for 1 second
<Guntorian> then leaves
<Guntorian> not even windows has this problem usually
<MartijnVdS> well nvidia + linux isn't the best combo ever
<Guntorian> I noticed
<Guntorian> brb
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: as far as I know nvidia proprietary drivers are the best drivers right now
<Azelphur> second to probably the open source ati drivers
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: For some things (3d) yes
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: for other things (randr) no
<Pernig> my computer is too loud with nouveau drivers :P
<Azelphur> hehe
<ali1234> xrandr is almost completely useless
<mgdm> I've never had an Ubuntu release where the applet for changing the monitor layout has worked, I've always had to use the xrandr command from the CLI
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: except when you connect a second screen and need to configure it
<mgdm> the applet freezes X
<MartijnVdS> mgdm: weird, it's worked for me on ATI and Intel for years
<mgdm> Both the laptops affected have ATI chips
<mgdm> there were bugs filed by other people, I'm not sure if they got looked at
<MartijnVdS> free or proprietary drivers
<mgdm> I tried both until I decided just to live with the xrandr command
<ali1234> unless you are using nvidia, then you use nvidia-settings and it is a lot more likely to work properly than xrandr
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: except not
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: the number of people I've had to help because they couldn't get their nvidia laptops to use the projector
<MartijnVdS> Intel > * on Linux
<ali1234> that's great for laptops
<MartijnVdS> (in terms of support, not in terms of 3D speed or anything)
<ali1234> but who uses those?
<AlanBell> intel kind of just works for me, but occasionally decides that I want to mirror displays
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: Everyone.
<ali1234> they don't just randomly pick what to support
 * MartijnVdS hands AlanBell the fillet knife, to fillet a bug
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: NVidia does.
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: "If it's older than 2 years you're SOL"
<ali1234> they support the things that most people want
<ali1234> such as proper 3d acceleration and easy dual head support
<ali1234> the only thing intel has going to it is open drivers that don't crash and low power usage
<MartijnVdS> and don't make users cry when connecting to a projector ;)
<ali1234> yeah... as long as the width of projector + width of internal display < 2048
<ali1234> not that it will tell you this... it just fails to work
<AlanBell> only if the max texture size is 2048, which it is on some atom chipsets
<ali1234> or does something random like set the internal and external displays to mirror and also be 320x240
<AlanBell> and if it is then it should fall back to 2d mode
<MartijnVdS> I've heard they fixed that
<ali1234> crashing compiz in the process?
<MartijnVdS> and made it 4096?
<ali1234> it is a hardware limitation
<ali1234> maybe they fixed it in newer chipsets
<ali1234> doesn't help me much though
<ali1234> otoh nvidia dual head works flawlessly
<AlanBell> MartijnVdS: they fixed compiz starting to run if the screen size was equal to max texture size
 * AlanBell has a 2048px wide monitor
<AlanBell> newer chipsets have a much wider max texture size
 * MartijnVdS can't wait for Ivy Bridge
<Pernig> hopefully the motherboards won't get recalled this time
<MartijnVdS> they won't make the same mistake twice
<BigRedS> they might make a different one :)
<BigRedS> Oh, MartijnVdS you're perly. you coming to the LPW this weekend?
<MartijnVdS> No
<BigRedS> ah, fair enough
<MartijnVdS> already went to YAPC::EU and $boss won't pay for both
<BigRedS> I was hoping for more face-to-name links
<MartijnVdS> I'll probably be at FOSDEM
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Andy Loughran] Active Traffic Management - http://zrmt.com/2011/11/07/active-traffic-management-2/
 * popey pokes AlanBell 
<popey> I'll delete the page I made then
<AlanBell> so multiple people can make the same page?
 * AlanBell just made +ubuntu
<popey> fool
<popey> jono already made one
<AlanBell> yeah
<popey> probably best to check first
<AlanBell> I just wanted to find out what happened if you create a page that is already taken, didn't expect it to work
<AlanBell> was expecting an interesting error message
<popey> right, deleted the ubuntu-uk one I made
<popey> (two hours ago)
<AlanBell> sorry, I was travelling :)
<popey> I'd remove the ubuntu one to reduce confusion
<AlanBell> done
<celesteh> hello, i'm wondering how do i tell if I should install the 64-bit (AMD) kernel or the other one?
<hamitron> do you know what cpu you have?
<hamitron> and how much memory
<celesteh> it's a new machine (and I'm new to ubuntu, so i know it has 8 gigs of ram, but i don't remember what processor it has. I've booted the ubuntu live cd. is there a command someplace that prints out this information?
<hamitron> then you will want the AMD64 version
<mgdm> celesteh: cat /proc/cpuinfo
<celesteh> how do i open the terminal? (sorry, i don't see it on the sidebar)
<celesteh> ah, found it
<celesteh> what, in particular, ami looking for in that information?
<celesteh> it's an intel. is the 64 bit for AMD only?
<hamitron> celesteh, no, AMD made the standard
<AlanBell> https://plus.google.com/u/0/b/110834053865602900585/110834053865602900585/posts G+ page for the UK team I think
<popey> AlanBell: seen the epic fail on linux format cover?
<popey> that url doesn't look right
<popey> http://www.hudzilla.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=102685
<popey> https://plus.google.com/u/0/110834053865602900585/posts
<popey> cover of linux format has a headline about women in linux, and uses "XY.org" as a headline
<AlanBell> genetics fail
 * hamitron got bored with LXF
<hamitron> decided to buy a few good books, rather than spend Â£60
<hamitron> has it improved since?
<hamitron> since 2006 I mean
<hamitron> ;/
<popey> conversely this latest issue of Computer Active has 40 pages about Ubuntu in it
<hamitron> prob more than Linux Format :/
<popey> hah
<hamitron> tbh, it wasn't a bad read that bugged me
<hamitron> jsut the huge cost, and them tutorials always left me wanting more
<hamitron> so had to go buy books anyway :/
<celesteh> hamitron: ta!
<hamitron> np :)
#ubuntu-uk 2011-11-08
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Ubuntu: More Than The Default Install - http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/11/08/ubuntu-more-than-the-default-install/
<popey> Morning all
<TheOpenSourcerer> \o
<AlanBell> morning
 * AlanBell is in Northampton
<TheOpenSourcerer> morning AlanBell I thought you would be driving a car right now...
<AlanBell> or rhereabouts
<TheOpenSourcerer> Ahh
<DJones> Morning all
<TheOpenSourcerer> Is it just me or is commonjs.org not available for anyone?
<selinuxium> o/
<DJones> TheOpenSourcerer: Its down for me
<TheOpenSourcerer> Thanks DJones - I thought it wasn't just me - been down since last night :-(
<MooDoo> hello all
<DJones> Morning MooDoo
<czajkowski> aloha
<Myrtti> moin
<daubers> o/
<bigcalm> Hi
 * daubers fires up banshee
<MooDoo> morning
<daubers> Had a thought last night. Is it me, or is UDS becoming a bit cathedral like (based on a lot of blog posts and things I've read recently)
<MooDoo> define cathedral like?   lots of bells and singing?
<DJones> Protesters camping outside?
<bigcalm> :D
<daubers> In the Eric S Raymond sense
<MooDoo> cathedral and the bazaar is a book i doubt most people have read :)
<daubers> It's on my list of things I really should read more closely
<MooDoo> daubers: sounds like you should also be firing up a new media player ;)
<bigcalm> daubers: short sighted?
<daubers> bigcalm: No, more that a small group of people seem to define big changes with/
<TheOpenSourcerer> DJones: I think you might know this... What's the cheapest way to pay an international invoice (Euro). We could use: Bank Transfer, Business Credit Card or PayPal?
<daubers> without necessarily having the relevant people who are involved with the decision
<AlanBell> daubers: you are right
<AlanBell> which works fine for a lot of the decisions made
<DJones> TheOpenSourcerer: We normally use bank transfer because we pay so many overseas invoices, but that costs about Â£10 per payment
<daubers> AlanBell: Maybe, I just think that more of a fanfair should be made about UDS, and maybe combine it with some kind of big event to help pull in all the upstreams
<DJones> TheOpenSourcerer: Credit card I don't think costs any extra, but if its in foreign curency there may be a charge and the receiver normally has something deducted as charges
<TheOpenSourcerer> I guess it is a collection of transaction fees and exchange rate games...
<DJones> We don't use paypal so I can't comment on that
<TheOpenSourcerer> OK - Thanks.
<daubers> So they can lay out their stall and supply more relevant information to the given decision makers
<AlanBell> daubers: err, there is a bit of a fanfair and upstreams are welcome, and often sponsored to attend
<AlanBell> and it is combined with the linaro summit
<AlanBell> however I don't think the default apps decision is very well made at UDS
<AlanBell> it might even have been the right decision, but that is more by luck than judgement
<daubers> AlanBell: I don't think I'm in the right position to comment on bansheegate, but UDS seems to lack some simple things, like a master published summary of what was discussed/decisions that where made. It's all relied on peoples blog posts more than anything else
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<czajkowski> daubers: true usually there is a better wrap up on the friday
<AlanBell> daubers: it is on the blueprints, which get converted to burndown charts
<AlanBell> mostly decisions are people deciding they are going to do things
<daubers> czajkowski: I don't think it would be too hard to task one person in each session as note taker, and have a couple of people collate them at the end of the day
<czajkowski> daubers: as AlanBell says it's on the blueprints tbh
<czajkowski> UDS is fairly busy
<czajkowski> I did well to get a blog post out a day
<daubers> Hmmm... their not particularly accessible to the average bod
<AlanBell> no, they are not
<AlanBell> which is why people write accessible blog posts summarising the interesting bits to them!
<AlanBell> would be nice for the track leads to do a daily summary, which is why I wrote code in summit to support doing exactly that, but I am going to remove it because nobody has ever used it
<AlanBell> this server I am sat in front of has 3 CPU cores, which is odd
<czajkowski> I can see it would be nice
<czajkowski> but I don't think track leads could manage it tbh
<czajkowski> given I know how busy UDS is
<daubers> AlanBell:AMD?
<AlanBell> daubers: yes
<daubers> code in summit?
<AlanBell> quit simple really, on a meeting page like this http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-p/meeting/19768/community-p-designing-and-creating-ubuntu-experien/
<AlanBell> below the pad there is a link to community summary for Monday
<daubers> I see
<AlanBell> the theory was that at the end of each session folk could copy and paste  note or two about significant decisions arrising
<AlanBell> then the track leads could edit that as they wanted into their daily summary
<AlanBell> but hey, the idea didn't catch on
<daubers> Could it not be automated (the first step anyway) by catching some form of markup from the main body of the text?
<AlanBell> that is a plausible feature, that bit is going to be rewritten using etherpad lite rather than etherpad for UDS Q
<AlanBell> might well have some way to do that, good suggestion
<jnick_tait> join #goneonical
<daubers> bah, having an unproductive morning
<daubers> Considering rearranging my desk
<daubers> Ummm, should the /topic be updated?
<DJones> Too slow doing that :)
* AlanBell changed the topic of #ubuntu-uk to: Welcome to #ubuntu-uk! http://ubuntu-uk.org | This channel is publicly archived http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Mailing List http://tinyurl.com/uukml | Support Guidelines http://tinyurl.com/uuksupport | Meeting 10th November 21:00 UK time #ubuntu-uk-meeting | Cake \o/
<daubers> :) T
<daubers> Ta
<AlanBell> daubers: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/community-p-summit-etherpad-lite added your suggestion
<JamesTait> Good morning all! :D
<daubers> AlanBell: Ooh, ta
<directhex> etherpad lite is a different bucket of fail to etherpad
<AlanBell> yeah
<AlanBell> we think it is a more fixable bucket of fail
<AlanBell> directhex: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda that is where to add an item about the default app selection process
<AlanBell> directhex: do you have a non faily pad suggestion?
<directhex> AlanBell, sadly not.
 * daubers is tempted to go postal and annihalate all the sales people next doo
<daubers> r
<oimon1> how does XFCE do compositing?
<oimon1> experience a bug 753144 bug with unity, but not with xfce, however xfce seems to have 3D enabled (not compiz though)
<lubotu3`> Launchpad bug 753144 in compiz (Ubuntu) "focused, or maximized windows blank" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/753144
<Myrtti> oimon1: yes it does do compositing
<oimon1> Myrtti: yes, seems so , cos docky works OK with it. not suffering the same bug though
<oimon1> i've had such bad experience with 11.04 and 11.10 :(
<DJones> INteresting read http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/11/08/ubuntu_on_trial/
<oimon1> DJones: didn't they write this article a few weeks ago too?
<DJones> oimon1: Probably, pretty much every time a new release comes out they write something about users not being happy with changes
<oimon1> el reg have a "unique" style of journalism
<oimon1> which makes their articles very incoherent
<DJones> unique is one way of describing it
<DJones> At times it has some well written & researched reports, and yet other reports are sensasionalised more than the news of the world would
<popey> haha Liam is a bit bitter
<oimon1> there's never any flow to the articles, just a bunch of links and disjointed text
<BigRedS> It *is* a tabloid
<TheOpenSourcerer> I didn't read anything "bitter" in that article. In fact he said he rather liked Unity. He seemed to me to be quite comprehensively discussing the history, why we are here and what choices one has.
<TheOpenSourcerer> "Some people, your humble scribe included, rather like Unity's new look."
<oimon1> i like the look, i just try and fail at using it
 * TheOpenSourcerer is still on 10.10
<oimon1> i'm having one of those weeks - new computer on the desk, and tried 11.10 but not sure whether to roll back to 10.04
<lornajane> I made it to 11.10 ths weekend, finally, but moved to XFCE when I did that (from KDE)
<TheOpenSourcerer> It's all GNOME's fault for developing something new ;-)
<BigRedS> I still don't understand the problem that Gnome3 solves
<MooDoo> lornajane: turning out all tight for you?
<MooDoo> s/right :)
<BigRedS> It seems that they waited almost exactly until Gnome2 was decently configurable, and then replaced it with something that isn't :/
<TheOpenSourcerer> Hey BigRedS That sounds a bit like Windows XP to Vista.
<lornajane> MooDoo: so far it's pretty good, nothing getting in my way
<MooDoo> lornajane: awesome :)
<lornajane> I don't use a pointing device so the "new features" in window managers are mostly useless and just waste system resources
<lornajane> right now I'm running four sets of tabbed konsole, opera and skype.  I really don't need much in the graphical space
<oimon1> on xfce right now
<oimon1> i'll probbly get used to it, but been using gnome2 quite a while now and i like it
<lornajane> I'm trying to bond with having the bar at the top.  We'll see how that works out.  So far, everything else just works as I expect and the window manager is not in the way
<oimon1> why did you move away from kde?
<BigRedS> because it doesn't remember configuration between sessions?
<daubers> GAH!
 * daubers starts looking at jobs
<lornajane> I had zero problems with KDE, used it for 10 years and liked it - but I just don't want or need anything so fully featured
<oimon1> lxde is slightly closer to KDE than xfce IMO
<lornajane> I run fluxbox on the netbook (which is wildly underpowered) and like it, so I looked around and thought I'd try XFCE as an alternative somewhere between the two
<lornajane> oimon1: someone else recommended lxde to me on twitter, I might take a look at that too sometime
<oimon1> knoppix uses it now
<BigRedS> I tried to see the point in lxde. It felt exactly like openbox but with a whole new way of configuring it which didn't seem particularly easier or more reliable than hand-editing XML
<DJones> I keep meaning to try lubuntu to see how well that works on some older hardware I've got sat round
<oimon1> lxde has a start menu, openbox didn't last time i looked
<BigRedS> yeah, it's openbox + panel
<BigRedS> and the
<BigRedS> usual collection of bits and pieces
<oimon1> realised that my sound card is futzing out when i do other stuff on the PC
<oimon1> :(
<BigRedS> I mean, i can see the point as an openbox distro or something, but it's no less disjointed than doing it yourself and not a lot less effort
<oimon1> BigRedS: i used it on my eee pc for a while, seemed quite effortless
<oimon1> although i didn't try to change anything
<BigRedS> maybe I've just forgotten how much effort I put into OB...
<oimon1> should update manager install updates without asking for password?
<oimon1> it seems to
<BigRedS> yeah
<BigRedS> if you're a sudoer IIRC
<oimon1> ah
<DJones> oimon1: Yeah, does that for me
<DJones> A bit of a shock to the system when you're used to being asked for a password, first couple of times it did it, I was thinking I'd gone senile & forgotten I'd entered the password
<MooDoo> It's almost lunch time :D
 * TheOpenSourcerer just had TWO digestive biscuits.
 * brobostigon has salt a vinegar crisps, and chicken sandwiches.
 * MooDoo isn't sure what to have, maybe ubuntu with a side order of "huzzah"
 * MooDoo has flipped today
<TheOpenSourcerer> I will probably have a cheesy sandwich with a good dollop of extra-hot home-made chilli chutney :D
 * popey had marmite on toast
 * MooDoo moves away from stinky popey 
<MooDoo> lornajane: did you use lubuntu or just regular ubuntu and installed lxde?
 * tonytiger notes an e-mail from popey getting cited in an El Reg article: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/11/08/ubuntu_on_trial/page2.html
<BigRedS> haha, the sounder list :)
<popey> happy days
<lornajane> MooDoo: I didn't try LXDE yet.  This was just an upgrade to existing kubuntu and I installed xfce as well
<MooDoo> lornajane: sorry that was me reading your posts wrong i meant xfce lol
<lornajane> MooDoo: on this laptop, I didn't try xubuntu but I am building a VM to distribute for some courses I'm teaching, and that will be straight xubuntu
<lornajane> I'm kinda here in case I need technical support :)
<tonytiger> lornajane: o/
<MooDoo> lornajane: php dev right?
<lornajane> hello tonytiger :)
<lornajane> MooDoo: right!
<MooDoo> lornajane: ignore that, of course we know who you are :)
<lornajane> don't tell me that, I'll get exaggerated ideas of my own importance
 * popey waves at lornajane 
<MooDoo> lornajane: sorry, i just happen to read your blog on your site :)
<lornajane> hey popey, how's it going?
<popey> great thanks :D
<lornajane> MooDoo: don't apologise :)  I love my blog, it brings new and interesting people into my life
<MooDoo> :D
<gord> back when i had a blog, i just met lots of new and interesting people that wanted to sell me pills or diploma's :(
<MooDoo> gord: i need to just update mine :D lol
<lornajane> gord: mine is interesting. I knew that the new ubuntu upgrade would cause issues with gearman before I did it, because I had blog comments on my post about ubuntu and gearman telling me that
<lornajane> so I stopped my sysadmin from upgrading the production system before I did my dev system (which we should do anyway but ubuntu pretty much works so we don't always)
<lornajane> and sure enough, I have issues
<MooDoo> oh i like that "my sysadmin" :) lol
<lornajane> MooDoo: that would be the sysadmin and seriously long term partner in my life, who taught me to code in the first place
<MooDoo> lornajane: groovy, coding rocks....now what's php again :)
<oimon1> monster munch is BOGOF...i feel i can justify eating 2 packs at lunch
<BigRedS> We've had 14-pack bags of those disappear in a number of hours ehre
<scoundrel50a> Hi, I have lost my desktop, it wont load when you start the laptop up. Its a lanovo 550 pentium 11.10 preinstalled.....I just had a freeze, restarted and the desktop went, I went into Ctrl+Alt+F2, and ran the command unity  ---resetand got the message 'Warning: no DISPLAY variable set, setting it to :0 unity-panel-service: no process found.......anybody know how I can get around that
<MooDoo> oimon1: they are not the same as when i was a kid, a lot smaller now boooo
<kirrus> oimon1: which shop from? :)
<oimon1> sainsbury
<oimon1> 14-packs
<kirrus> Looks like I'll to sainsbury's on the way home... and hide some packs in the office to stop them vanishing too fast ;)
<kirrus> s/to/go to/
<oimon1> ribena's half price atm too i think
<oimon1> frazzles ribena and monster munch made me the man i am today
<hippychick> dell or thinkpad laptop any ideas?
<lornajane> hippychick: thinkpad!  I love mine and am looking at getting another one - my boyfriend has one too now
<Azelphur> hippychick: in my experience the dells usually have a bit more power, where as the thinkpads are much more robust
<Azelphur> I had a thinkpad when I was a kid dropped it like 4 times and it still worked after :D
<MooDoo> i keep trying to get my daughter to hold my laptop but she won't for some reason, no new laptop for me.....[she's 7 weeks]
<MooDoo> hee hee
<lornajane> this thinkpad is 3 years old, it's a hand-me-down, and I run a business off it.  They are quite literally indestructible
<Azelphur> ^ that's typical of thinkpads :D
<oimon1> they are both good choices IMO.
<oimon1> depends on budget too
<scoundrel50a> does anybody have any ideas?
<Azelphur> yea, depends on what you want really :)
<hippychick> hmm, sounds good, my dell has lasted just over a year :/ i had an asus before that which lastest a year and a half so i want somthing abit more longer lasting
<oimon1> which dell model hippychick?
<Azelphur> then yea go for the thinkpad, they are built like tanks
<hippychick> studio 1749
<DJones> My Dell lasted 10 years :)
<oimon1> my dell latitude d630 hinge broke 1 day before the 3yr support ran out , and i had a streak of dead pixels, but generally i find
<oimon1> ..that they should last a few years at least!
 * oimon1 wonders if hippychick works on a building site 
<hippychick> well it wouldnt detect the power supply anymore and the screen was warped, i tried some diy laptop repair and fried the motherboard
<Azelphur> oimon1: I've had problems with multiple d6xx and screen hinges \o/
<Azelphur> although it's largely because my brother likes to carry them around dangling by the screen
<oimon1> agh
<hippychick> well im presuming i fried the motherboard, Oly said i didnt do anythign which would have caused it though.....
<oimon1> i don't allow my users to purchase laptops with company money without buying 3yr support
<Twinkletoes> Age old question... Ubuntu LTS or Debian for a virtual server?  Any opinions?
<Azelphur> I use the latest Ubuntu for my dedi server and have no problem
<daubers> popey: The missus just stumbled on you through google when she was looking for some SAP stuff
<Azelphur> LTS is to do with large hardware deployments where it'd be difficult to upgrade, on a single server it's not that difficult to press the upgrade button.
<oimon1> i used to use debian until LTS came along. now my servers are a mixture of centos and ubuntu LTS
<oimon1> Azelphur: s/difficult/unecesary/
<Twinkletoes> I've always used LTS in the past myself, and was wondering if I would get more stability/security from Debian if I'm only going to run bind and postfix
<Azelphur> from a technical standpoint debian is probably more stable as it's more minimal than ubuntu
<Azelphur> in practice, probably no difference as neither will crash for years
<Twinkletoes> heh! - Yeah - I'll be long gone than ;)
<Azelphur> 08:01:44 up 132 days, 17:16,  0 users,  load average: 0.59, 0.61, 0.84
<Azelphur> My server, which is currently on 11.04, need to upgrade it :)
<Twinkletoes> I suppose that one might be better then the other, but the difference in this case is infinitessimal?
<Azelphur> It's been upgraded from 10.10
<Azelphur> in terms of stability, yes.
<Twinkletoes> security?  As it's a DNS server?
<oimon1> btw tsco tell me i have Â£91 of vouchers..can i get them to resend them?
<Azelphur> I don't know shit about DNS servers, but it's highly likely that there's little to no difference again
<Azelphur> no doubt they probably use the same software, perhaps even the same packages
<Twinkletoes> Ok, thanks for the comments ;)
<oimon1> new gmail is hard to read :(
<DJones> oimon1: I've not looked at that, I always use thunderbird
<DJones> Just logged in, I have a button "Switch to new look"
<oimon1> any nvidia users in here? i can't suspend/resume with nvidia drivers :(
<Azelphur> I'm nvidia but I never use suspend/resume
<popey> daubers: unlucky
<hippychick> toni 1 laptop 0 :D fixed the laptop :D
<Azelphur> woo \o/
<hippychick> and it looks like my charging problem has been fixed....
<hippychick> right, time to back everything up
<Laney> is tmux any good?
<daubers> popey: It was something saying how pleased you where about leaving SAP behind
<daubers> also, has anybody read Head First Java? Is it any good?
<popey> haha
<popey> really?
<daubers> popey: Yup
<popey> probably a log of this irc channel :D
<daubers> heh
<shauno> this is interesting.  how do you tell a customer their contract expired 46 minutes ago =x
<MooDoo> shauno: hi x your contract expired 46 mins ago
<MooDoo> ;)
<daubers> "If you want this information you need to pay us x a month as your contract expired while I was having a coffee"
<MooDoo> shauno: are you the owner of the business?
<shauno> nah
<MooDoo> shauno: do it nicely then ;)
<shauno> I'm pretty much pretending it's still yesterday, service-wise.  but trying to find a way to drop it into convo that doesn't make me sound like a salesman
<daubers> Right, I've got three servers going into a datacenter to do a couple of jobs. Should I build them as a cloudy thing, or just taask each one with a task. Is three machines enough for a cloudy type thing
<shauno> I figure I can claim innocence because the customer is in AU.  so I'm in their yesterday
<MooDoo> daubers: well first of all stop saying cloudy type thing :)
<daubers> shauno: "If you found this helpful you might want to renew your support"
<BigRedS> daubers: how important is it that they work?
<daubers> BigRedS: Quite important, one is being tasked as a hot failover
<BigRedS> then it's probably best to stick with whichever you know best :)
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jonathan Riddell] What I Did on my Rotation - http://blogs.kde.org/node/4500
<daubers> Whose turn is it to make the coffee?
<TheOpenSourcerer> tumbleweed...
<TheOpenSourcerer> thumb twiddliing
<TheOpenSourcerer> whistling to himself
<MooDoo> that bored eh?
<TheOpenSourcerer> No - I was ignoring daubers
<gord> i'm pretty sure whoever asks who's turn it is, is the turn-e
<bigcalm> I had a pizza for lunch that made me sweat. I like a bit of spice, but that was uncomfortable. Still ate it though
<bigcalm> gord: unless it's asked loudly enough at one person in a group, hinting that they haven't made a cuppa for others for ages
<bigcalm> Don't like the new g+ favicon.ico for some reason
<daubers> I would, but I've been fixing boxes in Denmark all day after stupid salespeople said things to customers they shouldn't have
<daubers> </very annoyed>
<diplo> heh, I just had a cuppa turn up on my desk if that helps daubers
<diplo> :)
 * daubers mumbles incoherently
 * DJones makes a cup of spiced apple tea
<MooDoo> yum
 * Oli mumbles off to make himself an espresso
 * daubers checks the data disclaimer and wipes 32TB of data
<MooDoo> wow
<MooDoo> daubers: not take you long ;)
<daubers> MooDoo: mkfs is a wonderful thing in the wrong hands
<DJones> For anybody thinking about getting a rasberry pi http://www.raspberrypi.org/archives/312
<Azelphur> one of the fans on one of my bitcoin nodes 5870's failed :(
<Azelphur> "fixed" it :D http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/Photos/November%202011/IMG_20111108_160010.jpg
<Oli> DJones: they've launched sales?
<DJones> Looks like pre-orders on the official site
<Oli> I'm guessing that because their database has crumbled.
<DJones> But seems like there's fake sites appearing
<Oli> Oh okay - so they haven't started taking order yet (that I can see)
<DJones> Azelphur: That doesn't look very safe
<Azelphur> pfft, safety
<BigRedS> looks fine to me
<daubers> if (lobster->condimentAdded=='ketchup'){ head.explode();}
<MooDoo> ping Laney
<MooDoo> daubers: are you going mad?
<Azelphur> can you get cheapo pci(e?) sata cards, purely for the purposes of adding more hdds to a machine that only has 2 sata ports?
<popey> yes
<Azelphur> any recommendations? :)
<MartijnVdS> Any SATA-600 PCI(e) card will do I guess:)
<MartijnVdS> PCIe is potentially faster
<Azelphur> http://www.scan.co.uk/products/lycom-pe-103-x2-port-sataii-3gbps-pci-e-controller-card-with-ncq-pc-mac-linux guess I'll grab this :)
<Azelphur> oh wait, I don't even have a PCI-E slot free haha
<MartijnVdS> that's SATA-300
<Azelphur> *shrug*
<Azelphur> perhaps a new motherboard is in order \o/
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: you don't want fast disks, just disks?
<Azelphur> yea, it's literally just for movie storage
 * ball wants disks too.
<ball> ...and pie.
<MartijnVdS> ball: filelight can make pie-charts of disk usage... ;)
<safiyyah> Hi all
<MartijnVdS> \o safiyyah
<safiyyah> not here with a problem
<safiyyah> just came to sit :)
<popey> safiyyah: podcast is live in just over 2 hours
<popey> over in #ubuntu-uk-podcast
<safiyyah> okay will pop in
<safiyyah> lol
<safiyyah> second time I came into the room just to sit..... my life is going to pot for sure
<m4r35n357> anyone getting loads of bad certificate dialogues for oracle in thunderbird?
<buzz_> linux mint is above ubuntu on distrowatch last 6 months of stats, and consider ubuntu just had a release and linuxmint didn't, perhaps it suggests ubuntu does not deliver in the desktop what many users want. enough to make canonical sit up and listen? i would think not
<buzz_> also what linux mint are doing with next release, sounds far more towards "listening to users" than ubuntu - http://blog.linuxmint.com/?p=1851
<jacobw> pidgin still isn't creating a new window when first launched on my oneiric instance
 * jacobw will investigate and file bug if necessary
<BigRedS> buzz_: or people just don't use distrowatch to download Ubuntu all that much?
<BigRedS> I forget it exists until someone makes a big thing about Ubuntu not being on top every few months, and then I remember for half an hour and get back to using search engines to find things
<ali1234> firstly, distrowatch doesn't count number of downloads
<ali1234> secondly, ubuntu has been at the top of the list for the paste 3 years
<BigRedS> What is distrowatch's ranking? I thought it counted click-throughs to the mirrors?
<jacobw> distrowatch is irrelevant
<BigRedS> well, yeah
<ali1234> sure, keep acting like there isn't a problem
<ali1234> keep repeating it long enough and it will become true
<czajkowski> could someone please do the euro sign
<czajkowski> :.
<czajkowski> cannot get it to work on laptop
<jacobw> â¬
<czajkowski> jacobw: thanks
<BigRedS> haha
<jacobw> alt-gr+$?
<BigRedS> wikipedia's invaluable for those things. That's where all my sarcastic TMs come from
<czajkowski> â¬
<czajkowski> hah
<czajkowski> cheers
<czajkowski> it was 3
<czajkowski> BigRedS: brat
<BigRedS> what?
<mattt> i think she called you a brat
 * BigRedS grumbles
<czajkowski> you laughed
<BigRedS> I'm generally laughing, though
<BigRedS> I can't help it if you happen to have some misfortune nearby
<BigRedS> :)
<jacobw> !packaging
<lubotu3`> The packaging guide is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide - See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages for information on getting a package integrated into Ubuntu - Other developer resources are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment - See also !backports
<jacobw> o/ SuprEngr
<SuprEngr> o/ jacobw
<SuprEngr> just got in - panic mode - podcast ;)
<jacobw> 14 minutes to go :p
<buzz_> ali1234, yes but thats my point it isnt top for the last 6months, the trend seems to show it losing ground to other distros (even ubuntu based ones)
<BigRedS> But it's only losing ground on whatever metric it is that distrowatch measures
<czajkowski> BigRedS: charming :)
<SuprEngr> [[enjoying the gentlepodcast  music after a day full of scheiss till then]
<BigRedS> Distrowatch hasn't known about any distro that I've downloaded or installed in the past 8 years or so
<buzz_> well. i think it has some significance
<buzz_> BigRedS, so what ? :)
<buzz_> not sure i follow your point whatever that may be..
<ali1234> like i said, distrowatch doesn't count downloads or installs
<BigRedS> buzz_: I suspect I'm not in the minority, and so distrowatch represents distrowatch users better than it does linux users
<buzz_> if they havnt covered any distro you have used, i suspect you are in the minority
<ali1234> distrowatch represents linux users rather well
<ali1234> it doesn't doesn't really represent ubuntu users however
<BigRedS> what does it measure?
<ali1234> it measures page hits afaik
<buzz_> ali1234, i can agree with that, but im not sure that nullifies the trend though
<buzz_> not completely
<ali1234> see distrowatch is not just a list of ISOs you can download
<ali1234> they maintain a database of which database uses which package
<ali1234> so what we can infer from this trend
<buzz_> you could argue that linux mint users are using ubuntu anyway but ;-) and that ubuntu users are using debian too heh
<ali1234> is that people who know other distros exist, and take an interest in comparing them, are leaving ubuntu
<buzz_> for example
<ali1234> but they are going to mint, which is just ubuntu but with a sensible desktop
<buzz_> it seems to.. at least more so than others
<ali1234> so that tells us those people like everything about ubuntu except for unity
<ali1234> actually it doesn't tell us that
<ali1234> it tells us that people are most interested about mint
<ali1234> not that they are actually switching
<buzz_> im certainly interested to see what linux mint can do with gnome3 and if they can keep gnome2 as an option.. i think that's what users want. the choice.
<ali1234> there is no more choice than there ever was
<buzz_> there is less choice
<BigRedS> ali1234: I think the suggestion is that there's now less :)
<buzz_> there used to be the choice to use or not to use unity on ubuntu.. ok there is if you ditch gnome but
 * buzz_ runs xfce currently
<buzz_> having just put together an oneiric image for the o2 joggler, i can tell you that the classic gnome interface was much more usable, on the touchscreen
<ubuntubhoy> buzz_, gnome shell works well with touchscreens
<BigRedS> does it? It seems to love keyboards
<buzz_> ubuntubhoy, ive not tried it yet, but i will give it a spin, should it work on the gpu / drivers
 * jacobw loves keyboards
<BigRedS> I've never used it on a touchscreen, but I really like the sensible keyboard shortcuts
<buzz_> ive not tried it on  a touchscreen device that should say
<ubuntubhoy> there are a couple of extensions that make a dif, but they are all official ones
<ali1234> i would say the level of choice is about the same as it ever was
<BigRedS> yeah, you can still install your pick of about 9 DEs/WMs
<ali1234> just the choices have changed
<buzz_> well if you include the fact that some choices have been removed and replaced with others
<buzz_> its no good if your choice has been removed
<BigRedS> well, version numbers have gone up as they keep doing :)
<buzz_> now oneiric is out, at least my bug on launchpad that was easy to fix but wasnt fixed for 6 months can be just marked invalid like most other launchpad bugs ;-)
<ali1234> hah
<BigRedS> haha
<ali1234> not yet it can't
<ali1234> anyway just open it again against oneiric
<buzz_> it's fixed on oneiric
<buzz_> just as a side effect..
<ali1234> upgrade then
<BigRedS> haha, fixed is fixed
<buzz_> i don't need it now anyway. but still. it should have been fixed before natty was released..
<BigRedS> you must be new here :)
<buzz_> how's that ?
<buzz_> because i expected it to be fixed? :)
<BigRedS> yeah
<BigRedS> all the launchpad bugs I've had fixed are non-ubuntu
<ali1234> yeah same here
<buzz_> it was a real easy fix... i would have fixed it if i could. i mean i fixed it locally
<ali1234> it kind of sucks when you are reporting bugs in unity though
<diplo> Evening all
<BigRedS> well, I just can't be arsed to file ubuntu bugs any more, really
<buzz_> it was the right mouse emulation stuff  (mousetweaks) had the gnome3 version with natty that needed gnome2 version. anyway. i used it for right mouse emulation, but now i use evdev
<BigRedS> especially if I can fix it locally
<BigRedS> which is completely backwards
<buzz_> http://www.mail-archive.com/xorg-devel@lists.x.org/msg26232.html
<ali1234> wait are you exobuzz?
<buzz_> which i backported to the version of xserver running
<buzz_> yep
<diplo> Anyone use a Blackberry in here ?
<ali1234> lol
<AlanBell> buzz_: tried the latest onboard in oneiric-proposed?
<buzz_> AlanBell, yep. and its prettier than before, but not even close to as usable as say florence
<buzz_> which was removed from oneiric , even though it can be build without gnome2 panel support
<AlanBell> it now has right mouse click stuff build in
<AlanBell> why was florence useable?
<buzz_> more responsive
<ali1234> how do you do a right click with a on screen keyboard?
<buzz_> you can actually type quicker than 1cps on it
<AlanBell> ali1234: it has a button, and the next click you do is a right click, the button just happens to be on the same UI
<buzz_> AlanBell, how should i use the onboard right click emulation with say xbmc then
<ali1234> that's awful
<buzz_> which is why evdev based right click emulation works better (imho)
<AlanBell> I don't know what xbmc is
<ali1234> all you need to know is it runs fullscreen
<buzz_> it's a media center app. fullscreen
<AlanBell> ok
<buzz_> anyway. compared to florence. onboard is just horrible. imho
<AlanBell> not sure what the question is
<buzz_> install florence from my ppa and try it
<AlanBell> will do
<buzz_> ppa:jools/joggler - built for oneiric
<ali1234> buzz_: what do you think of mer?
<AlanBell> would florence make a better default onscreen keyboard in your opinion?
<buzz_> ali1234, still not tried it
<ali1234> they have plasma active and cordia builds
<buzz_> AlanBell, with some changes so it worked on login screen etc. yeh
<buzz_> but just for typing on a touchscreen. it works better
<AlanBell> caribou is another option under development, gnome are doing that one because onboard was not invented there
<ali1234> and something called razor/QtDesktop
<ali1234> onboard was *really* horrible last time i tried it
<buzz_> AlanBell, florence on older ubuntu - http://joggler.exotica.org.uk/images/ubuntulinux3.png
<buzz_> ali1234, it has a prettier look. but still feels sluggish to actually type on
<AlanBell> I helped make onboard a bit less horrible (mostly cosmetically), it does have some decent features though
<buzz_> the right/middle click is a useful improvement anyway, on top of the better looks. there is no doubt that onboard is more usable than before at least
<buzz_> bbl food
<AlanBell> so onboard has click helpers for touchscreens (right, middle and double click) and hover click
<AlanBell> the keyboard adapts to different international layouts correctly (might be some bugs, but in general if you have an AZERTY keyboard or whatever it uses the keyboard layout you requested
<AlanBell> there are full and compact keyboard options, plus a broken scanning mode keyboard (we discovered a week ago that space has always been mapped to 'e' so nobody has ever used that bit)
<AlanBell> and there are different themes including one using ubuntu font and colours and logos on the super keys
<ali1234> the main problem with it is it acts like a normal app so you have to shuffle it's window around all the time
<AlanBell> yes, there is the minimise to a floating icon thing now
<AlanBell> show floating icon when onboard is hidden
<ali1234> i bet the desktop designers love that
<AlanBell> then you can close it and prod the icon to open it and you can drag the big ugly icon about if it gets in the way
<AlanBell> most of my efforts in a11y are around getting the desktop designers to give a crap one way or the other, so if they hate it then great :)
<ubuntubhoy> the only problem with onboard I can see, is it should have an option to be on all workspaces
<ubuntubhoy> if I open it on workspace 1, it should be available on all other workspaces I have
<AlanBell> erm, it is
<ubuntubhoy> not with gnome shell
<ubuntubhoy> I have to select it from the notification bar
<ubuntubhoy> so if I have it set to on-top, with floating icon it should be on all desktops
<AlanBell> it follows me about on unity2d, and I think is on all workspaces in unity3d
<ubuntubhoy> must be a bug with the way gnome shell handles dynamically
<ubuntubhoy> workspaces ^^
<AlanBell> you are using onboard from -proposed?
<ubuntubhoy> yeah
<AlanBell> must get that updated and released, it is just waiting for the scanning mode space/e fix and that is done in trunk
<ubuntubhoy> there was an update a day or two ago, never looked to see what had changed
<AlanBell> that might be it, I am just doing a big update on another machine to get it
<Myrtti> AlanBell: I just realised something relating to the a11y thing
<Myrtti> I'm very keen on audible bell, mine has been broken for years for some reason. If I set in Universal Access settings on the Hearing tab Visual alerts on, the screen flashes, if I'm in GnomeShell. Doesn't in Unity
<AlanBell> Myrtti: yes, I know about that one :(
<AlanBell> there is an utterly pathetic effect if you tell it to flash the window title bar
<Myrtti> I could even swear I heard a bleep
<AlanBell> we have a kind of plan to wire that up to a full screen compiz wobble or something
<Myrtti> I miss the bleep
<AlanBell> I did ask the onboard devs and all the other on screen keyboard devs I could find about multitouch but that was when utouch was first starting and nobody had any plans
<AlanBell> would be good to get a steno type chorded multi touch keyboard in
<ubuntubhoy> I have no multi-touch anyway
<ubuntubhoy> I kinda want some accelerometer functionality though
<Myrtti> ubuntubhoy: which device are you on?
<ubuntubhoy> Dell Duo
<Myrtti> alright
<AlanBell> ah, no scanning mode has return, not space wired up to 'e' and it is still broken
<Myrtti> I'm on ExoPC/Wetab myself
<AlanBell> if you check the box to force window to top then it appears on all workspaces in unity 3d
<Myrtti> in theory I've got multitouch, dunno why it doesn't work, all the instructions I've seen are super unhelpful
<ubuntubhoy> for the Duo it broke when touch-helper went out of date
<AlanBell> in terms of performance onboard seems fine on an Atom 330 with intel graphics
<MarquessDeBonBon> AlanBell, my Welsh friend.
<AlanBell> nope, not even a little bit Welsh :)
<Myrtti> ubuntubhoy: http://myrtti.fi/blog/?p=922 written after using the tablet for a week
<AlanBell> Myrtti: how would you like onboard to automatically hide/show?
<AlanBell> and have you tried the show floating icon option?
<ali1234> it should show when the focus is on a field that accepts text
<AlanBell> and is that unity2d or 3d?
<ali1234> and it should hide when it isn't
<Myrtti> AlanBell: the icon just blocks the view, and yes, I expect it to work like ali1234 said
<Myrtti> basically like the Gnome keyboard does in GnomeShell
<Myrtti> or Maliit does in MeeGo
<AlanBell> ok, that makes sense, would require atspi to be turned on
<AlanBell> what gnome keyboard? caribou?
<Myrtti> I suppose it's caribou, it just ... was there
<Myrtti> I can only assume it isn't Maliit, because I couldn't install all the packages for it
<AlanBell> I spent ages trying to compile caribou and gave up in disgust
<AlanBell> I am a bit surprised you have onboard under unity
<ali1234> users using ubuntu in the way it is intended to be used...
<ali1234> shocking :)
<AlanBell> I meant in terms of z-order
<Myrtti> AlanBell: I don't actually mind it being there, it just gets in the way there tbh
<AlanBell> onboard should always be able to be on top of the dash and type into the dash now
<ali1234> unity draws over everything
<AlanBell> ali1234: not onboard it doesn't any more
<ali1234> the only thing that can have higher z-order than it is a focussed fullscreen window
<AlanBell> or onboard
<ubuntubhoy> Myrtti, 100% on the scroll bars - no good for fat fingers
<ubuntubhoy> keep meaaning to download a more traditional theme with proper scroll bars
<ubuntubhoy> -a
<AlanBell> scroll bars are a broken concept with touchscreens really
<ubuntubhoy> yeah
<AlanBell> you need to drag or flick the content
<ubuntubhoy> I use plug-ins for chromium and FF
<ubuntubhoy> Myrtti, there is also an on-screen kehyboard that is part on gnome shell
<ubuntubhoy> it nice to look at, but also has some issues
<ubuntubhoy> like its anchored to the bottom of the screen
<Myrtti> ubuntubhoy: yeah, I like how that one works much more than OnBoard
<Myrtti> the thing that bugs me though is that I haven't figured out yet how to change it's layout
<ubuntubhoy> it also covers the bottom of the screen
<ubuntubhoy> transparent, but still covered
<ubuntubhoy> rather than adjust the window size like the E keyboard does
<ubuntubhoy> its the best I have tried so far
<Myrtti> E keyboard?
<Myrtti> I've just given up and hooked an USB keyboard back on the tablet when I'm doing anything else than watching videos
<AlanBell> bug 443986
<lubotu3`> Launchpad bug 443986 in smartphone "RFE: Add option to automatically show and hide onboard" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/443986
<AlanBell> with the changes to at-spi it might be time to make that work
<ubuntubhoy> Myrtti, the default keyboard for Enlightenment tablet mode
<ubuntubhoy> try Bodhi Linux if you want a look
<AlanBell> Myrtti or anyone else, can you take a screenshot of onboard below the unity dash?
<ubuntubhoy> if you have no takers in 5 mins, I will log out and in to get you it
<ali1234> do i have to use -proposed?
<AlanBell> no, the one in oneiric main should be fine
<ubuntubhoy> why does USB creator update so often in every new version
<ali1234> uploading now
<ali1234> i don't know but you don't need it any more
<ali1234> you can now just dd the images directly to the usb drive
<Myrtti> AlanBell: oo, I seem to have fiddled some settings right, it's not underneath now
<ali1234> http://imagebin.org/183211
<AlanBell> http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/onboard.png that is what it should look like, trying to figure out how it managed to get below the dash
<ali1234> well my onboard looks nothing like that for a start
<ubuntubhoy> thats the new version, without borders
<ubuntubhoy> butt ugly default theme though
<AlanBell> ubuntubhoy: help make it pretty
<ubuntubhoy> lol
<AlanBell> what should it look like to be less ugly?
<AlanBell> I made that theme
<ubuntubhoy> I use the droid theme
<ubuntubhoy> nice dark and simple
<ubuntubhoy> bit like me
<ubuntubhoy> though not so dark with the Scottish weather
<ubuntubhoy> the prob with the default is it looks icky sicky candy-ish with the purple/pink  & orange
<AlanBell> yeah, I know, I have no aesthetic talent
<AlanBell> http://www.theopensourcerer.com/2011/04/21/ubuntu-natty-in-virtualbox-with-unity/ before and after I got my hands on it
<Myrtti> I'd want a proper IBM M beige one :-D
<AlanBell> I was picking out colours from the branding toolkit to make it fit in with the overall Ubuntu branding
<AlanBell> Myrtti: got a photo?
<ubuntubhoy> yours is better AlanBell
<ubuntubhoy> but...
<ali1234> what are those big rectangles on the right for?
<ubuntubhoy> hyou need to use some of the default Ubuntu plain dark transparent
<AlanBell> they are now the abc and fn buttons
<ubuntubhoy> look at your screeny
<AlanBell> ali1234: nobody could see they were buttons because they look *nothing* like buttons and they do a confusing overlay
<ubuntubhoy> dash is all dark
<ali1234> OMG i just clicked it so confusing
<Myrtti> AlanBell: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Model_M_keyboard
<AlanBell> ali1234: yeah, nasty isn't it
<AlanBell> Myrtti: want the sound effects in too?
<Myrtti> what annoys me most about onboard after it not autohiding itself is that the Enter-key is wrong shape, and the '-key is in wrong place. But I suppose that is difficult to implement
<Myrtti> AlanBell: "KLONK KLONK"
<AlanBell> no it is trivial to implement
<AlanBell> the layout is an SVG file
<AlanBell> what key is in the wrong place? -
<Myrtti> I'll take some screenshots
<bigcalm> Myrtti: I have a spare Unicomp kb if you want it. US layout sadly (which is why it's spare)
<bigcalm> PS/2 connector
<AlanBell> /usr/share/onboard/layouts/Full Keyboard-Alpha.svg
<AlanBell> the SVG is just used for key positions, not detailed shapes and colours
<ubuntubhoy> does the stock palette you work from include transparency ?
<AlanBell> no, but there are some transparency options for the background(works) and whole window(doesn't work)
<AlanBell> keys can only be rectangles at the moment :(
<AlanBell> actually there is opacity in the colours files
<AlanBell> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/57/ModelM.jpg/1024px-ModelM.jpg
<mgdm> I used those in school
<AlanBell> so a layout like that in as an option in Precise then Myrtti?
<mgdm> terrible things
<funkyHat> clicky clack
<Myrtti> the colours please :-)
<ubuntubhoy> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/6297429/unityvirtualbox.png
<ubuntubhoy> your pic, but a little less sweet shop looking
<AlanBell> yeah, we can do better than that
<AlanBell> one thing to note, I wasn't aiming for pretty, I was aiming for the design team to notice that onboard is a part of their desktop
<ubuntubhoy> as long as its easy to theme its not a big issue
<AlanBell> also wanted higher contrast, especially on the main keys
<AlanBell> hence bolder colours on the keys that you don't need to read the keycaps to know what they are
<ubuntubhoy> I dont think thats really a biggie, just as its not on a physical keyboard
<AlanBell> it was
<ubuntubhoy> http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_1i7EX7a2ELY/TTkEklrBNFI/AAAAAAAAAkI/6ZhPHRv0m3I/s1600/170066_176439552392686_159133997456575_318606_5153473_o.jpg
<ubuntubhoy> AlanBell, thats the Bodhi one, nice simple and works really well
<ali1234> the letters are far too small
<ubuntubhoy> simple changes
<ali1234> and the vertical gaps are a different size to the horizontal gaps
<ubuntubhoy> and I am sure it has another 100 faults
<ali1234> and it is missing many important keys like how am i supposed to type numbers on that? i dn't even know
<ubuntubhoy> it is in the simple mode
<ubuntubhoy> full keyboard is available
<Myrtti> AlanBell: http://www.flickr.com/photos/myrtti/6326533727/
<ali1234> full keyboard is no good either
<ali1234> it needs a button to switch to entering numbers
<ali1234> it doesn't have one
<ubuntubhoy> yes it does
<ali1234> or if it does, it has a terrible label
<ubuntubhoy> the ABC on the top right
<ubuntubhoy> gives full keyboaard
<ali1234> that says ABC?
<ubuntubhoy> yeah
<ali1234> i thought it was just a random squiggle lol
<ubuntubhoy> as I say, 100 other faults
<ali1234> but like i said, full keyboard is no use
<ubuntubhoy> why ?
<ali1234> because there are too many keys and not enough screen space to display them all at once
<ali1234> have any of you ever even used a smartphone?
<ubuntubhoy> how small is your screen ?
<ubuntubhoy> yes
<ali1234> um... 4.2"?
<ubuntubhoy> I would love Swiftkey
<ubuntubhoy> on linux
<Myrtti> AlanBell: comparing the Enter-key...
<ubuntubhoy> ali1234, your is a very specialist problem, I am talking about general use
<diplo> Anyone know anyone running IBM RS/6000 machines ?
<ali1234> never heard of swiftkey. i would settle for something as good as the vkb in android
<AlanBell> yeah, I see what you mean Myrtti, but it only does rectangular keys at the moment
<AlanBell> and I have a hardware keyboard with a flat enter key
<ali1234> lol. yes, smartphones are very specialist. they totally didn't sell 90 million of them last year
<ali1234> (pulling numbers from my ass)
<Myrtti> AlanBell: :-(
<ubuntubhoy> Ubuntu on a smartphone is
<AlanBell> I have an android phone, I have 4 keyboards installed, they all suck
<ubuntubhoy> not many came with Ubuntu installed
<ubuntubhoy> Try Swiftkey
<ali1234> the actual number is probably 10x that :)
<AlanBell> I found one hackers keyboard that can actually type the keys I want
<AlanBell> but it totally fills the screen when landscape
<ali1234> there's a reason why none of them came with ubuntu.... ubuntu is utterly useless on touchscreens :)
<Myrtti> AlanBell: I have one extra installed. The one that I have to use even if I hate it - the one that has all the buttons on it. Sucks to be a Finn.
<AlanBell> and swype is interesting, but useless
<ubuntubhoy> the new version is not so bad for general use
<ali1234> i don't like swype much but it is still better than anything ubuntu has
<Myrtti> (with a stock android without an option of Finnish Swype or any other keyboard the manufacturer would have bundled)
<ubuntubhoy> ali1234, try Swiftkey, its a month free trial iirc
<ali1234> what is it for?
<AlanBell> swype doesn't have ctrl key
<Myrtti> what do you need that for :-D
<AlanBell> ssh sessions
<ubuntubhoy> ali1234, replacement android keyboard
<Myrtti> right - my Nexus One trackball sends ctrl to irssi connectbot
<ali1234> so android
<Myrtti> I don't know if it does to plain connectbot too
<ali1234> ok. is it in the market?
<Myrtti> anyway
<ali1234> installing it
<ali1234> wow what have they done to the market
<ubuntubhoy> lol
<ali1234> it's really confusing now
<ubuntubhoy> 3.3.11 I presume
<ali1234> stupid google
<ali1234> 3.3.11 what?
<ubuntubhoy> market version
<ali1234> i dunno
<ubuntubhoy> Chromium/chrome web app store has went the same way
<ubuntubhoy> tiles seem to be the in thing
<Myrtti> gah, almost quarter to one, need to go to bed
<Myrtti> good night
<ali1234> bah, this is rubbish
<ali1234> i can type faster than it accepts input
<ali1234> that's the first fail of any vkb
<ali1234> the theme lacks any kind of contrast, letters are too small... other than that it is identical to the android one
<ubuntubhoy> nope
<ubuntubhoy> the difference is in the word prediction
<ubuntubhoy> theme can be changed
<ali1234> the word prediction is rubbish
<ubuntubhoy> turn off haptic for speed
<ali1234> apparently "goox" is a word
<ubuntubhoy> FFS give it time to learn your typing style
<ali1234> i don't want to turn off haptic. haptic is necessary
<ubuntubhoy> hve you let it learn from SMS, Twitter, Facebook
<ali1234> no of course not
<ali1234> i don't even use facebook or twitter
<ubuntubhoy> but I guess you do use SMS
<ali1234> and even if i did i would not give the password to johnny random vkb programmer
<popey> I use SMS, but type full sentences.
<ubuntubhoy> but you still write in your own style
<ubuntubhoy> you combine words that I maybe would not
<ubuntubhoy> so the keyboard learns your word patterns
<ubuntubhoy> and ali1234 the world record speed typing for a phone was made using this keyboard
<ali1234> i don't care, it runs very slow on my phone
<ubuntubhoy> what handset ?
<ali1234> galaxy S
<ubuntubhoy> then it should not run slow
<ali1234> argh how do i uninstall things with the stupid new market?
<ubuntubhoy> the same way you did with the old one
<ubuntubhoy> select it, then un-install
<ali1234> in the old one i just went to "install apps" it was right there on the first page
<ali1234> installed
<ubuntubhoy> you might want to press menu to get your 'my apps'
<ali1234> now it has been replaced by an advert for steve jobs biography
<ali1234> all the themes are extremely low contrast :(
<buzz_> i cant wait to see that long lost interview with steve jobs that will be shown at the cinema. im going to queue a week before hand to make sure i get a seat
<ali1234> yeah that is not fishy at all
<ali1234> he totally didn't find it 6 years ago and decide to save it until after jobs died
<buzz_> heh
<ali1234> hey this rom has swype in it
<ubuntubhoy> has done since they first started selling them
<AlanBell> http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/modelm.png
<AlanBell> Myrtti: http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/modelm.png
<AlanBell> bit more to do on it
<ubuntubhoy> thats nice
<AlanBell> I also want to do a colour layout for teaching touch typing
<popey> ooo i like that
<AlanBell> which is I know a bit daft for an on-screen keyboard
<ubuntubhoy> not really
<AlanBell> en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Touch_typing.svg like that
<ubuntubhoy> as a theme option it would be fine
<AlanBell> the model M layout should have the key lables in the top left corner of the key caps, that will need a patch to the code to selectively undo the code I wrote to put them in the middle
<Myrtti> AlanBell: cool
<Myrtti> gn
<AlanBell> o/
<AlanBell> I will tweak that a bit more and submit it upstream
<diplo> gn all
<andylockran> guys, anyone know how to scrl up on irssi in screen?
<andylockran> :)
<andylockran> I sorted it
#ubuntu-uk 2011-11-09
<ging> does anyone know how you make it so when you need to unlock an ssh key in a terminal window it pops up the gnome keyring manager ?
<diplo> Morning all
<popey> Good morning
<AlanBell> ging: it should do that if you have the display environment variable set
<AlanBell> and morning all
<ging> AlanBell: where would i set that variable?
<AlanBell> happens automatically if you start gnome-terminal from a desktop session
<AlanBell> if you ssh somewhere, it should pop up and ask for the password
<TheOpenSourcerer> morning all
<AlanBell> if you ssh somewhere, then ssh from there to somewhere else it won't be able to launch the local popup so it will ask you in the terminal
<popey> lo
<DJones> Morning folks
<ging> AlanBell: well it does on 1 of my computers the other it doesn't, not too sure what i've done to it
<ging> both are 10.04
<daubers> Morning
<selinuxium> morning  o/
<MooDoo> morning all
<JamesTait> Wonderful Wednesday, people! :D
<andylockran> morning guys!
<andylockran> It is a beautiful day.  How is everyone
<popey> GREAT!
<daubers> tired, sniffly and grumpy
 * popey makes coffee
 * daubers finishes his second mug
 * BigRedS grumbles at the temperature
<andylockran> popey: welcome back to Engerlands.
<popey> ta
<MooDoo> i'm ok thanks
 * JamesTait is well, but still getting used to the miserable weather we've had lately.
<MooDoo> it's a bummber, especially seeing as i ride to work on a bike
<daubers> MooDoo: I did that Monday and yesterday, but surrendered to my oncoming cold today and brought the car
<MooDoo> daubers: motor or push?
<daubers> MooDoo: Motor
<MooDoo> daubers: it's all i've got at the moment, either that or bus [shudder]
<JamesTait> One of the benefits of working from home, I guess. Still have to do the school runs, though.
<popey> :D
<popey> Yeah, wfh is nice, I get out of the school runs :D
<daubers> heh, if I want to take the bus to work I have to leave the house at 4am to get into the office (10 miles away) at 7:30
 * MooDoo would love to work from home :)
 * daubers would also like to work from home... but it's impractical without an antistatic workshop
<JamesTait> popey: I could if I wanted to, but I like to take the time away from the keyboard and with the kids.  Gives me a bit of a refresher. :)
<popey> i get out of it because the kids go to the school where my wife works :D
<DJones> daubers: I get the same problem with the train, if I want to get to work by 9am, I have to leave at 5am, its only a 1hr drive
<AlanBell> popey: snap
<JamesTait> In terms of time with the boys it's probably a net loss - I could start work earlier and have fewer breaks, so finish earlier if I didn't do the school runs.
<JamesTait> popey, AlanBell: I believe that's cheating. :-P
<popey> âº
<Twinkletoes> I've got my zone file all fixed up, but what's the syntax for a catch-all, so <mydomain.com> will resolve to an IP address?
 * daubers avoids the school run by not having kids
<Twinkletoes> Is it just        @ IN A <ip>     ?
<daubers> Twinkletoes: Everytime I do that I have to look it up
<JamesTait> Twinkletoes: That looks right.
<Twinkletoes> this is why I Can't find the answer, because I always ask the wrong question
<Twinkletoes> I just want <mydomain.com> to work, as well as <hostname.mydomain.com>
<JamesTait> Twinkletoes: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/732898/
<Twinkletoes> JamesTait: thankyou... so just a blank name then!?
<andylockran> Twinkletoes: that looks correct
<JamesTait> Twinkletoes: IIRC that works because the context is already set in line 3.
<JamesTait> Twinkletoes: What you had originally should also work.
<shauno> with no name should just match $ORIGIN
<Twinkletoes> Thank you :)
<Twinkletoes> JamesTait: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/732904/
<Twinkletoes> JamesTait: Is that correct?
<Twinkletoes> Line 12 & 17 are the ones I'm concerned with I suppose
<JamesTait> Twinkletoes: LOoks good to me, yes. :)
<m4r35n357> is Ubuntu One throttled at the servers ? (for freetards like me)
<JamesTait> m4r35n357: Throttled how?
<JamesTait> m4r35n357: To the best of my knowledge, no, but I might not be thinking of what you mean. :)
<m4r35n357> just really really really slow
<m4r35n357> considering the amount of data and bandwidth
<JamesTait> m4r35n357: File sync is slow?
<m4r35n357> I'm trying to work out what it does, but the tiniest change seems to take hours to filter through and settle down
<AlanBell> m4r35n357: I am fairly sure there is no intentional throttling, the only place it would make sense is the music streaming
<feisar> morning all, when using Ubuntu 'ls -l' seems to list a date corresponding to when the files inside a directory were last modified is that correct?
<m4r35n357> and I just can't work out what it does with several machines sharing the same files
<AlanBell> m4r35n357: it does thishttp://www.theopensourcerer.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/action_queue_states1.png
<m4r35n357> ie. if I upload a file, then edit it on two different machines, or delete it on one but not the other . . . . ?
<JamesTait> m4r35n357: Changes on one machine will be synchronised to the servers and then pushed down to the other machines attached to your account.
<m4r35n357> well in my system I keep having to re-share directories because it forgets between boot-ups
<JamesTait> m4r35n357: If you make a change to a file that's synchronised while the computer is offline, and that same file is modified on one of the other computers, you can end up with conflicts.
<m4r35n357> just now syncing stuff that I synced yesterday
<m4r35n357> the docs seem to use the phrase "synchronisation" pretty liberally, for either data direction
<JamesTait> m4r35n357: Probably best if you could drop into #ubuntuone - there are people there who are way more clued up on the client side than I am.
<m4r35n357> JamesTait, OK didn't know about that channel, ta
<JamesTait> I'm just a lowly server developer. ;)
<MooDoo> pah !  pah !
<kirrus> feisar: yes, that is correct, and normal
<feisar> kirrus: great, thanks
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<JamesTait> brobostigon: o/
<brobostigon> o/ JamesTait
<DJones> ANybody with google plus business pages worked out how to have multiple admins, from what I've read, you are restriced to a single admin
<bigcalm> Share a gmail account?
<DJones> That seems to be the only way at the minute
<popey> you cant yet
<popey> its coming
<bigcalm> If you build it, they will come
<DJones> Ah well, a bit more patience needed
<daubers> Any recommendations for an IRC bot?
<popey> wicket!
<daubers> is that still maintained?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Moar coffee and a wee required.
<popey> not really
<popey> lovely TheOpenSourcerer
<TheOpenSourcerer> :D
<popey> daubers: i think hugo has one in #tvrrap
<popey> sorry #tvrrug
<daubers> Heh :)
<AlanBell> bot to do what?
<bigcalm> daubers: eggdrop is an all-rounder you can add to with tcl
<daubers> AlanBell: Some logging and some databasey factoidy stuffs
<bigcalm> perldrop for factoids
<bigcalm> Erm, no
<bigcalm> Infobot
 * bigcalm needs more coffee (I've already had a wee)
<MooDoo> thanks for that bigcalm
<bigcalm> MooDoo: I blame TheOpenSourcerer
<DJones> daubers: supybot ?
<davmor2> czajkowski: prod
<davmor2> morning all
<TheOpenSourcerer> That's better (ahhhh)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Coffee and TWO digestive biscuits
<bigcalm> davmor2: you're alive!
 * czajkowski kicks davmor2 
<czajkowski> I have bruises from you buddy
<davmor2> TheOpenSourcerer: I thought you'd missed me picking on czajkowski for a minute
<davmor2> czajkowski: Ahhhh sorry
<czajkowski> git
<TheOpenSourcerer> I gave that up davmor2 - I always end up losing.
<daubers> Mihgt play with supybot as it's python
<davmor2> czajkowski: to be fair though you started it :P
<MooDoo> davmor2: czajkowski nice to have you both back
<davmor2> MooDoo: morning dude
<DJones> daubers: supybot is what ubottu is based with the encyclopedia plugin
<davmor2> bigcalm: Cause I am :)
<MooDoo> davmor2: morning man, eventful trip to the states
<DJones> daubers: This might help for background info http://ubottu.com/guide/
<davmor2> MooDoo: Meh got to pick on czajkowski in person and we are both alive
<Dave2> :o
<MooDoo> davmor2: czajkowski what's wrong with you pair? still alive? pah! you're obvciously not trying hard enough, just wait till i see you both
<bigcalm> davmor2: next week still on?
<davmor2> bigcalm: indeedly doodley
<bigcalm> Great
<bigcalm> And the others?
<davmor2> gord: next thursday you still on dude?
<bigcalm> gord: the wifi/'net connection there is good enough to play Minecraft...
<daubers> DJones: Bookmarked! Ta :)
<davmor2> czajkowski: how's you're back now kiddo you looked like you were in a lot of pain even though the grimaced laughter and smiling
<czajkowski> yeah tis so so
<czajkowski> the carrying of a laptop clearly makes it worse
<czajkowski> plus sitting down from 8-6 every day didnt help
<TheOpenSourcerer> davmor2: That sounded very caring and sensitive. For czajkowski?
<dogmatic69> sup
<dogmatic69> does this look strange? http://i.imgur.com/5c8T5.png
<bigcalm> Server not found
<davmor2> TheOpenSourcerer: you didn't see her dude,  we might have a love to hate each other attitude in public but I like her on top form still :)
<MooDoo> davmor2: *slap*
<dogmatic69> bigcalm: was that to me?
<bigcalm> dogmatic69: yes
<dogmatic69> :/
<dogmatic69> can you try again plz
<bigcalm> Same again
<davmor2> MooDoo: What I like czajkowski on top form injured isn't a fair kill ;)
<dogmatic69> :O
<bigcalm> dogmatic69: what have you done?!
<dogmatic69> broke imgurl by the looks of things
<MooDoo> davmor2: like and czajkowski doesn't go together, so behave ;)
<dogmatic69> bigcalm: cant you open imgurl?
<bigcalm> http://imgur.com/ gives me a site without stylesheets
<directhex> imgur is broken right now i think
<bigcalm> Firebug is shoing s. and i. are b0rked
<dogmatic69> http://oi40.tinypic.com/6nva0n.jpg
<czajkowski> davmor2: took lots of pain killers getting on the plane so as to ease the journey
<czajkowski> but it only gets as bad as you saw me when I'm really busy and dont taken enough meds and rest
<gordonjcp> any recommendations for a working twitter client for Ubuntu?
<bigcalm> tweetdeck works for me
<dogmatic69> gordonjcp: twitter.com :)
<gordonjcp> dogmatic69: apart from the obvious
<MooDoo> bigcalm: on 64bit ubuntu?
<dogmatic69> i find it the best
<bigcalm> MooDoo: the box I have it on is 32bit, so I can't comment
<bigcalm> Tis still a little buggy at times sadly
<gordonjcp> I don't use 64-bit
<gordonjcp> it's too slow
<gordonjcp> for the couple of minutes your applications actually run, they're marginally faster
<gordonjcp> but that's more than compensated for by the time spend rebooting from kernel panics
<bigcalm> I don't use a desktop or web twitter client much these days. Use use tweetdeck on my phone. This usually means that I get more work done
<andylockran> Never had an issue with 64bit myself
<MooDoo> me neither, just adobe air doesn't like it much
<Neoti_Laptop> Hi All, i have a problem with empathy since upgrading ubuntu to 11.10 it will not connect to hotmail i have removed the account and readded it all my other accounts sign in fine but the hotmail account on the accounts screen just has the green speech bubble flashing at me ... any ideas ?
<directhex> Neoti_Laptop, yes, i know this one!
<directhex> Neoti_Laptop, which version of telepathy-butterfly do you have installed?
<Neoti_Laptop> how do i find that ?
<directhex> dpkg -l telepathy-butterfly
<Neoti_Laptop> ah ... of cause sorry im ill today and not with it ....
<Neoti_Laptop> telepathy-butt 0.5.15-2.1
<directhex> okay. "dpkg --purge telepathy-butterfly", log out, log back in, delete the account in empathy, and re-add it.
<directhex> there are two different telepathy msn implementations, and butterfly is broken.
<Neoti_Laptop> ah cool bean ..... many thanks directhex .... :)
<DJones> Anybody had issues with Pidgin not working on connect, I find I have to disconnect/reconnect about 1/2 dozen times before I can get a contact list up
<DJones> Ah confirmed bug 880008
<BigRedS> DJones: I've had that a few times with one XMPP account
<lubotu3`> Launchpad bug 880008 in pidgin (Ubuntu) "pidgin hangs on first start" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/880008
<BigRedS> Oh, not that
<BigRedS> I get it trying to connect for ages
<DJones> I'd use empathy instead, but thats pretty useless in not raising a conversation window when somebody messages you, if you don't spot the little icon, I miss them
<BigRedS> and empathy can't do away-on-idle which seems quite the oversight
<DJones> I've never used it long enough to notice that
<DJones> Ah well, subscribe to the bug & +1 for the affects me
<NET||abuse> hi folks, what's thinking on gnome-tweak-tool? I've looked for a way to tweak the system font, so it seems that's the only way in Oneiric
<BigRedS> It's what I use in Gnome3 on Debian
<BigRedS> seems fine there, not had cause to install it on a ubuntu yet
<NET||abuse> my screen resolution is 1440x900,, and the defaults in ubuntu are all just a bit too big
<NET||abuse> so i need to push for a more compact layout.
<NET||abuse> already reduced the launchers icon sizes in ccsm
<gordonjcp> I need to figure out how to get alt-f2 to work properly
<BigRedS> in unity?
<gordonjcp> in XFCE it autocompletes based on your history
<NET||abuse> gordonjcp: what's it not doing for you?
<BigRedS> do you also get it starting arbitrary apps for you?
<AlanBell> this with Ubuntu would be nice http://www.engadget.com/2011/11/09/transformer-prime-detailed-10-inch-super-ips-display-12-hour/
<gordonjcp> NET||abuse: not autocompleting, so I need to type the full name of whatever I want to run
<NET||abuse> it usually completes based on what it finds in the path
<gordonjcp> annoyingly it will highlight for example "gnome-terminal" in the history below, but not actually autocomplete it
<AlanBell> gordonjcp: hit return
<gordonjcp> AlanBell: did that, doesn't do anything
<AlanBell> and it will run the first thing in the list below
<BigRedS> yeah, if you hit return it'll normally start the first thing in the list, sometimes what was first a few characters ago, though
<BigRedS> and, other times, I find it just starts whatever it thinks I should be doing
<AlanBell> which I will admit sucks if you want to run it with arguments
<gordonjcp> actually that time it randomly started gnome-calculator
<BigRedS> alt-F2, enter "openarena", claws mail starts "Oh, alright then, I'll check my mail"
<gordonjcp> is there a way to make it prefer the history list rather than the "what's in the path" list?
<AlanBell> if you do alt+f2 return it should run the last thing in history, or go down twice then right to navigate the list with cursor keys
<AlanBell> or write a better lens :)
 * AlanBell contemplates scrambled eggs with one of TheOpenSourcerer's chillis in it
<popey> AlanBell: agreed, nice device
 * TheOpenSourcerer just had left overs: Lamb Chop in Tomato Sauce, Couscous and home grown chillies x2 (1 Bangalore Torpedo and 1 Goat Horn)
<popey> I just had ham rolls and a cappucino âº
<AlanBell> nom nom nom, spicy eggs are nice
 * JamesTait is currently tucking in to chicken in Nandos sweet and sticky sauce, with pasta and vegetables.
<davmor2> popey: you back home now?
<gordonjcp> the popup messages from things like empathy, I think the way they work is a bit broken
<gordonjcp> making them blur when you mouse over them and do nothing when clicked seems like really strange behaviour
<gordonjcp> anyone know what the thinking behind that is?
<AlanBell> that is very intentional
<AlanBell> patches not welcome
<AlanBell> and I agree with you
<BigRedS> yeah, it's less annoying than gnome3's way IMO, though
<davmor2> gordonjcp: Yes it was so you would need to open the application to interact with it, it was a conscious effort to keep people working but still involved with what is going on iirc not perfect by far but very intentional
<AlanBell> gordonjcp: http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/253
<gordonjcp> davmor2: surely clicking on the indicator would have been a great way to open the application...?
<popey> davmor2: ya
 * DJones worry's at christel's latest nick change
<Pendulum> gordonjcp: the point is to make it harder to open the application so that you're less likely to do so rather than doing whatever you're working on
<davmor2> gordonjcp: no you have to physically go off and open the application, that is the point.  It is set up so you know what is happening but not spending the entire day in your twitter feed
<superwoman> DJones: i am totally a superhero today!
<superwoman> cape and all
<DJones> :)
<MartijnVdS> watch out with capes
<MartijnVdS> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M68ndaZSKa8
<DJones> MartijnVdS: I thought it was canapes you to watch out for
<davmor2> superwoman: man I prefer wonderwoman she had a whip and everything can't you be wonderwoman ? ;)
<darael> gordonjcp: There's also the point that it can be really annoying when one wants to get to something behind the indicator, if it isn't click-through.  Less so since the indicators came in at about the same time as the window-button move, but still...
<gordonjcp> davmor2: as opposed to clicking on the big distracting thing that takes up a quarter of the screen?
<superwoman> davmor2: haha i actually have wonderwoman grouped also :x
<gordonjcp> or giving you some way of getting rid of it, so it doesn't annoy you for the ten seconds or so that it hangs around for?
<davmor2> gordonjcp: the idea is you don't interact with it you just read it
<gordonjcp> davmor2: right, but that's just annoying because the first thing I want to do is either act on it or get rid of it
<nigelb> Just realized this channel dropped off my list.
<Twinkletoes> I want to check syslog after restarting bind9/named.  I only want to show the lines since the last message "received control channel command".  I can filter on named using grep, but I only want the lines since the last message, as stated.  how can I do it?
<oimon1> midway through my week off and i've achieved ...not much :(
<BigRedS> gordonjcp: I think you're preaching to the converted I'm afraid
<gordonjcp> davmor2: so in this case I either have to bring up the list of squares down the left side and work out which one is demanding my attention
<davmor2> nigelb: shame on you
<JamesTait> Twinkletoes: Use less. :)
<gordonjcp> davmor2: or, wait with a giant dialogue box blotting out a chunk of my screen until it goes
<Twinkletoes> JamesTait: It'd be part of a script, and I just want it to spit out the relevant lines
<Myrtti> JamesTait: or watch, or tail, or grep
<JamesTait> Twinkletoes: Ah, that wouldn't work then. ;)
<Myrtti> tail and/or grep then
<Twinkletoes> JamesTait: sort of like "search for the last occurence of <string> and spit out everything thereafter"
<Myrtti> grep does that
<Twinkletoes> Myrtti: really?
<JamesTait> Myrtti: Really?
 * Twinkletoes goes to the man page again
<nigelb> davmor2: yeah, *hangs head in shame*
<davmor2> gordonjcp: or click on the blue envelope or the blue arrowed application square or change the length of time it stays open...
 * JamesTait loves learning new stuff
<Myrtti> I think so, grep -A with high enough number
<JamesTait> Myrtti: But can you limit that to just the last occurrence?
<JamesTait> logcheck does something similar.
<JamesTait> I haven't look at how it does it though.
<darael> I don't recall if grep has a mode where it outputs line numbers of matches, but if so then that could be combined with tail to get the desired effect.
<Twinkletoes> darael: -n for grep
<darael> Twinkletoes: I was about to look it up.  There we go, then.
<Laney> MooDoo: still on for tomorrow?
<Laney> anyone else coming?
<Myrtti> JamesTait: yeah, dunno if that's possible, I remember doing something like what darael mentioned with a script I wrote for Nokia some years ago
<JamesTait> Myrtti: That's the way I'd approach it, working on a copy of the file though so nothing else writes to it between grep and tail. :)
<Myrtti> yeah, the problem involved LaTeX sources that needed to be generated into PDF either as a whole or as a one chapter at a time, it involved a lot of bash/grep/sed/awk magic
<Myrtti> and tail, if I remember correctly
<Myrtti> and temporary files :-D
<JamesTait> Myrtti: There's a lot of power in them there commands. :D
<Myrtti> oh man, the war stories I have from that project...
 * Myrtti goes to play with emacs and updates her LaTeX scripts for generating her CV
<scoundrel50a> had a few problems yesterday, lost my Panel and top bar, wouldnt load after a crash. once I managed to find out how to start ccsm I managed to get both back, but for some reason it will only allow me to have one desktop, even though in ccsm in general options it shows I have 6. The icon in the Panel for workspaces doesnt work.....any ideas on how to get my desktop back?
 * JamesTait goes back to vim and... "stuff".
<scoundrel50a> Is there something in ccsm apart from what is in general options that you have to click on to get more than one workspace
<scoundrel50a> could it be something in the windows options? its really annoying that I can only get one desktop
<scoundrel50a> I just worked it out, thanks anyway......
<popey> have you tried "..
<popey> oh.
<daubers> Odd chap that one
<popey> can someone test something for me on 11.10 with unity 3d?
<daubers> Is it going to kill my laptop? If not, yes
<daubers> :)
<popey> open compizconfig-settings-manager, choose accessibility and switch it on
<popey> unity will explode
<popey> your apps will be fine
<daubers> Which part of accessibility?
<popey> negative
<popey> sorry
<AlanBell> ooh really? without installing the upstream ezoom thing?
<popey> i havent installed anything extra
<AlanBell> mine crashes but I thought that was because I broke it
<popey> unless i did and forgot
<daubers> Hmm.. mine does nothing
<AlanBell> doubt it, I was compiling stuff from source
 * andylockran is installing 6.06.2 LTS
<directhex> andylockran, why?
 * andylockran is stuckon gparted not working, not recognising the network card, and not recognising hte CD Drive.
<andylockran> directhex: need to get a system running with MySQL 4.
<AlanBell> there is very little in that plugin, it should just turn on some apis I think, which text tracking zoom will depend on
<daubers> popey: I get no response :) Unity is keeping hold of the super key, so can't actually switch the negative on
<directhex> andylockran, why?
<andylockran> directhex: legacy app
<popey> AlanBell: the only thing i switched on was negative
<daubers> Ah, now it explodes
<daubers> Mine is definatley just with negative on
<AlanBell> oh, you don't have the accesibility plugin by default
<daubers> also, now I can't mend it
<popey> i do have enhanced desktop zoom on
<popey> i just disabled negative and it barfed unity again
 * popey file0rs a bug
 * AlanBell crashes here too
<AlanBell> unity does not play nice with others
<daubers> May have to reboot to make this work properly again now :)
<popey> bug 888064
<lubotu3`> Launchpad bug 888064 in unity (Ubuntu) "Unity crashes when switching on or off Accessibility -> Negative" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/888064
<oimon1> isn't there an existing bug for those?
<popey> oimon1: i didnt find one
<oimon1> maybe i was thinking of 585552
<oimon1> bug 685552
<lubotu3`> Launchpad bug 685552 in unity (Ubuntu Oneiric) "Compiz crashes when (en|dis)abling a plugin (ccsm) aka compiz crashed with SIGSEGV in sigc::signal_base::impl()" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/685552
<daubers> That wasn't fun
<AlanBell> a fair few dupes on that one!
<oimon1> i got a crash the other day when enabling zoom
<Twinkletoes> Myrtti: back to extracting some lines from syslog... I've done it, but it looks awful...
<Twinkletoes> Myrtti: grep -n 'received control channel command' /var/log/syslog|tail -1|cut -f1 -d:|xargs -I K tail -n +K /var/log/syslog|grep named|grep -v client
<andylockran> what's the best way of running MySQL4 these days?
<popey> !info mysql
<lubotu3`> Package mysql does not exist in natty
<popey> !info mysql-server
<lubotu3`> mysql-server (source: mysql-5.1): MySQL database server (metapackage depending on the latest version). In component main, is optional. Version 5.1.54-1ubuntu4 (natty), package size 6 kB, installed size 92 kB
<popey> why do you need 4?
<BigRedS> andylockran: probably to just run a really old distro behind a firewall
<BigRedS> virtualisation makes backporting less necessary :)
<andylockran> BigRedS: Yeah - it's never going to be internet-facing
<andylockran> popey: compatibility with some legacy apps :s
<BigRedS> yeah, we've a
<BigRedS> n etch box here for that sort of thing
<andylockran> BigRedS: We've got an etch box currently running it too
<andylockran> 4.1.11
<andylockran> debian.Â­mytso.Â­net use to host them.
<Myrtti> does segphault participate in the development of Gwibber anymore?
<Myrtti> I'm just baffled by Gwibber all the time nowadays
<Myrtti> reminds me why I've stopped using it on my laptop
<BigRedS> I keep trying to see the point in it, and I keep failing
<BigRedS> twitter.com seems to be the best Twitter UI...
<AlanBell> any client that doesn't use the twitter streaming API is doing it wrong
<Myrtti> I just want something that would integrate Twitter and Facebook and perhaps in the near future G+ into one app
<Myrtti> in fact, I want Tweetdeck for Android to every platform.
<AlanBell> I tried writing a twitter client, it works fine, and if I knew how to write desktop applications in GTK it would probably be OK
<Myrtti> I greatly dislike how Gwibber has been 'gnomified'
<AlanBell> as it is I am thinking of making it a specialised twitterfall type application
<Myrtti> I don't know what has gone wrong, but the scrolling is atrocious and the theme is next to unusable in the dictionary
<MooDoo> hopefully the next version will be better, especially as it's hoped to have column support
<AlanBell> https://launchpad.net/circleoffriends if anyone wants to help make it less broken
 * popey recommends polly
<popey> it uses the streaming api like circleoffreinds so tweets appear instantly
<popey> tis very nice
<Myrtti> could someone atleast try to explain the difference of Gwibber's Home and Messages views?
<DJones> popey: Do you know if polly has facebook/G+ access
<DJones> nvm, doesn't look like it supports it
<MooDoo> lol nice nic christel :)
<christel> :P
<andylockran> I think what I'm going to do is load dapper in a chroot and just run mysql 4 there..make sense?
<MooDoo> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UCADay - ubuntu community appreciation day :)
<andylockran> :D
<bigcalm> andylockran: why do you need v4?
<davmor2> Myrtti: Home contains all messages, plus likes comments etc, Messages is only a view of the messages coming in from your direct contacts.
<Myrtti> how baffling
<davmor2> Myrtti: that's the only difference I see at any rate
<davmor2> Myrtti: it does include messages you sent too
<Myrtti> and the difference of these two views is differentiated by a little white triangle in the UI :-<
<Myrtti> I'm really really starting to hate gnomification
<andylockran> bigcalm: legacy app uses MySQL4 only bindings
<davmor2> Myrtti: file a bug and point kenvandine at it he's pretty good to be fair
<bigcalm> andylockran: ok
<davmor2> Myrtti: I'm with you in that the two seem to be odd to have but then I don't know the master plan with it
<dogmatic69> what the... just installed 'multi IE' thing (on 10.10 wine) for running different versions of IE.. opening IE shows some 'Wine Internet Explorer'
<bigcalm> And?
<bigcalm> Wow!
<bigcalm> A twitter spam bot just replied to a tweet I sent 46 days ago
<dogmatic69> any proxy gurus around? im getting loads of 502/504 errors :/
<czajkowski> davmor2: see am being busy today http://www.h-online.com/open/news/item/Strobe-acquired-by-Facebook-1375813.html
<Cassie> Hello
<Twinkletoes> In bind, I want "certain" users to be able to edit "certain" zone files.  I added the 'bind' group to each user, but notice the zone files are group-owned by user 'bind' but do NOT have write privs.  I'm assuming it's a VERY bad idea to give the bind user write access to zone files, so how can I achieve what I want?
<davmor2> czajkowski: I didn't say you weren't :P
<Cassie```> I have a question regarding ATI cards for Ubuntu 11.04
<Cassie```> Is there anyone here with some sort of knowledge with regards to that?
<MooDoo> !ask :)
<Cassie```> !ask
<lubotu3`> Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line and in the channel, so that others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-) See also !patience
<MooDoo> yay that's the one :)
<MooDoo> lol
 * Twinkletoes smiles at MooDoo
<Cassie```> !ask I believe I have finally installed my ATI card with ATI drivers correctly but I'm a bit confused as to why I cannot play youtube videos in 1080 or 720 quality like I can in Windows XP.
<lubotu3`> Cassie```: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<darael> MooDoo: Wouldn't !anyone be more relevant?
<darael> !anyone
<lubotu3`> A high percentage of the first questions asked in this channel start with "Does anyone/anybody..." Why not ask your next question (the real one) and find out? See also !details, !gq, and !poll.
<BigRedS> I do think there should be a bot that reponds to every question that begins "does anyone" with "probably"
<darael> BigRedS: ++
<Cassie```> I'm a little lost know
<Cassie```> Have I used this !ask command correctly?
<MooDoo> Cassie```: it was just an informational really, what i really meant was just ask away :) if there is anyone that can help you they will :)
<Cassie```> I'll wait it out then :)
<darael> Cassie```: !ask is a quick way of us telling people "just go ahead and ask".  It prompts the bot to give the message it did.  Don't worry about it.
<DJones> Cassie```: Just explain the problem you're having with as much detail as you can, which ATI card etc
<Cassie```> The ATI card is a Sapphire Radeon HD 6670. I am using the 11.10 driver from AMD's site.
<DJones> And what type of computer its on
<Cassie```> Processor : Pentium 4 3.00GHZ with HyperThreading
<Cassie```> 2GB DDR2 800MHZ ram
<Cassie```> Watching 1080 or 720 on youtube is not a problem on windows so I am sure my hardware is not the centre of issue here. But I cannot have good playback on Ubuntu
<DJones> I'm not sure about this, but would youtube 1080/720 videos need an extra codec from the restricted extras?
<Cassie```> Elaborate on "restricted extras"
<davmor2> Cassie```: have you installed ubuntu-restricted-extras?
<MooDoo> Cassie```: ubuntu-restricted-extras
<Cassie```> No, and I do not know what it is.
<MooDoo> Cassie```: it provides a number of extra codecs
<MooDoo> Cassie```: have a look at this https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RestrictedFormats
<DJones> Cassie```: If you open software center and search for "ubuntu-restricted-extras" and install that package and then try the video's again
<daubers> does flash on linux support hardware playback now?
<MooDoo> or just sudo apt-get install ubuntu-restricted-extras from the command prompt :)
<Cassie```> I cannot scroll smoothly on webpages or even in Ubuntu itself
<Cassie```> Sort of the issue you have when you insert a new card and not install its drivers
<davmor2> Cassie```: yeap which can also be down to the fact that you don't have the codec to play the video so it falls back to the most basic of settings
<KrisDouglas> if it is happening to youtube/scrolling around is it not more likely that the proprietary drivers need to be loaded for the graphics card? (or the card is incapable)
<Cassie```> I have tested using the terminal to verify the proprietary drivers are correctly installed
<Cassie```> and the Catalyst Control Center icon is in the Sytem settings window
<popey> daubers: it has supported hardware playback under certain specific contitions for some time now
<bigcalm> Is flash still a going concern?
<popey> heh
<Cassie```> For instance I am on firefox right now, if I wanted to move my cursor across the tabs on top like bookmarks and tools, the drop list would delay in opening up
<bigcalm> Not used it for some months now and can't say I miss it
<davmor2> bigcalm: Yes flask are they keep you're drinks hot
<bigcalm> davmor2: eh?
<DJones> Cassie```: Is the problem just firefox related, do any other app's show the same problems
<davmor2> bigcalm: I've not hear of this flash you talk of so assumed you'd misspelt Flask
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Paul Mellors] Ubuntu Community Appreciation Day - http://paulmellors.blogspot.com/2011/11/ubuntu-community-appreciation-day.html
<bigcalm> davmor2: :)
<MooDoo> davmor2: you can read? *gasp*
<Cassie```> DJones: , trying to test that
<Cassie```> Yes.
<Cassie```> Top left where the time is, wifi, power icon
<davmor2> MooDoo: No I'm naff at reading ;)
<Cassie```> when flicking through those it also "lags"
<MooDoo> davmor2: i wish you'd talk proper like wot i does
<bigcalm> Literacy skills are optional on IRC
<Cassie```> Its almost as if there is more stress on the CPU rather than the GPU
<davmor2> bigcalm: what? you swallow a dictionary again?
<bigcalm> davmor2: in my previous job of manual labour, my cow-orkers would call me the walking dictionary :S
<Cassie```> I am looking at System Monitor right now and the CPU usage history is jumping way above 60% when moving windows around the screen
<DJones> Cassie```: I'm not sure what is going, it could be a driver problem, but I've never had a machine with ATI graphics so I'm not sure what you'd need to check
<Cassie```> Appreciate your help.
<davmor2> Cassie```: Have you installed the driver from additional drivers?
<Cassie```> Funny thing is I hard a hard time to get the Proprietary drivers working stable so I can atleast boot up into Ubuntu, now that I get it working I face this sort of non-utilising GPU problem
<Cassie```> I installed the proprietary driver first, then enabled additional drivers
<davmor2> Cassie```: how did you install it first?  enabling it in additional drivers installs the driver for you?
<daubers> Cassie```: You may also need libvdpau1 to make hardware acceleration work
<Cassie```> hardware acceleration
<daubers> (for flash playback anyway)
<Cassie```> sounds like the solution
<Cassie```> http://wiki.cchtml.com/index.php/Ubuntu_Maverick_Installation_Guide#Installing_the_drivers_manually
<Cassie```> I followed this wiki, which forums say is the place to go for installing ATI cards, so I did.
<Cassie```> I used the command terminal to download and install the package
<Cassie```> rebooted the computer, couldnt login, rebooted into the other mode and activated the driver from additional drivers
<davmor2> Cassie```: did you reboot post enabling it in additional drivers and did you do the check to ensure?
<Cassie```> When I rebooted, I had a black screen and could only see the top bar
<Cassie```> top taskbar if you like
<Cassie```> and had to reboot into the safe mode in grub
<Cassie```> I think it was there that I enabled the additional drivers and rebooted into ubuntu
<Cassie```> and here I am.
<Cassie```> problem is when ever I try to install the ati driver it sort of fails to boot properly, the display is completely messed up.
<Cassie```> I thought I made a sort of error in the installation. But I'm not sure what to do now cause other people with higher end cards than mine are working flawlessly with even 3 monitors supported.
<davmor2> Cassie```: so if you open up additional drivers now is like this http://ubuntuone.com/4HlHOt3ZmVxGoHFihSLGwq ie the radio button beside the driver is green?
<Cassie```> Yes. It is activated and currently in use.
<davmor2> Cassie```: Pass then, the only thing I can think of is you're ATI chip only has partial support :(
<Cassie```> "This guide will show you how to use the Free, Open Source driver for many ATI graphics cards called "radeon" or "ati". It will provide 2D and 3D acceleration in your video hardware. This driver is not as fast as the closed-source, proprietary "fglrx" driver from AMD/ATI Inc. for some cards, but has better dual-head support, and supports some older chipsets that fglrx does not. "
<Cassie```> Perhaps my chipset is the problem but then again windows works flawlessly with it
<daubers> Cassie```: Windows may not be asking for certain graphical features
<Cassie```> My card is a HD6670
<Cassie```> so the driver only has partial support you say?
<dogmatic69> been checking out the server with the 504 errors and found something about "lsof". its set to 1024 and doing lsof -n | grep apache | wc -l shows 1024
<dogmatic69> *1059
<davmor2> Cassie```: No I said might only have partial support, it might be fine and the issue else where
<dogmatic69> what is this lsof?
<oimon1> list of open files
<dogmatic69> what happens when lsof is > ulimit
<oimon1> however it might be that apache has a 1024 process limit
<oimon1> ulimit -a should tell you what settings are
<dogmatic69> ye, its 1024
<Cassie```> I've posted a thread on forums, hopefully someone will respond with a solution.
<Cassie```> I only installed Ubuntu as university requirements to run a software called OpenFoam
<dogmatic69> oimon1: ulimit 'open files' == 1024
<oimon1> http://serverfault.com/questions/20183/apache-crashing-too-many-open-files-in-system
<MooDoo> Cassie```: noo shush, you installed ubuntu as it's fun, free, great community ;)
<Cassie```> I admit it is rather neat, if only it had full support of drivers and softwares it would really sky rocket, thats just my opinion though.
<Cassie```> but then again what monopoly companies would allow such free operating systems to do so
<oimon1> dogmatic69: one at the bottom might help
<dogmatic69> oimon1: added that line and rebooted apache. there is now +- 1400 files open
<andylockran> phew.. day over.
<MartijnVdS> \o/
<diplo> Evening all
<diplo> Anyone unlocked a HTC Wildfire ?
<diplo> Sim unlocked?
 * MartijnVdS has a N1, waiting for Galaxy Nexus
<diplo> Just been given a wildfire
<diplo> but locked to Voda
<MartijnVdS> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/8878537/Worlds-last-Sikh-warrior-who-lives-in-Wolverhampton.html
<TheOpenSourcerer> AlanBell: WARNING! Be very Careful with that Naga I gave you the other day. If it anything like the one I have just eaten on my Pizza there will be trouble.
<ball> I'm out of touch with the cost of server hardware in the U.K.  Does UKP 350 sound about right for an entry-level tower server with a couple of hard disks in RAID-1?
<ball> (or a microserver)
<diplo> Microservers are about Â£200 withÂ£100 cash back ball
<diplo> + cost of hard drivesa
<ball> diplo: So UKP 350 is not unreasonable?
<diplo> Nope not at all
<ball> diplo: Thanks, that really helps.
<diplo> I think my HP Micro box came to a total of Â£230 incl 2 2TB hdd's
<TheOpenSourcerer> http://www.misco.co.uk/Product/Q444298/HP-G7-N40L-Micro-Server
<Myrtti> would anyone happen to have a sachet of fresh-ish black Sugru I could buy off their hands?
<Myrtti> mine has gone bad and I need to fix my handbag strap :-(
<Myrtti> don't want to buy another lot just to have it go old on me again
<Myrtti> http://www.flickr.com/photos/myrtti/6329254789/ :-(
<AlanBell> Myrtti: just done a merge request for your model M theme :)
<ali1234> why don't you just sew a new piece of material over it?
<Myrtti> because I'm not a cobbler
<Myrtti> and I don't have moneys to take it to the cobbler
<ali1234> i know leather isn't the easiest thing to sew but you only need a special needle
<Myrtti> ali1234: well actually if I had fresh Sugru, I'd knit a woollen fuchsia patch I'd glue on the Sugru
<Myrtti> that way it would also be less slippy
<ali1234> i only have epoxy putty, sorry
<ali1234> i don't think it is quite the same
<mattt>   /j #bitlbee
<mattt> herpderp
<jacobw> derpherp
<jacobw> o/ davmor2
<davmor2> jacobw: hello
<AlanBell> Myrtti: ali1234: buzz_: one reason onboard may be a bit slow on weak hardware is it draws the key lables three times to get the rather rubbish embossing effect which just looks blurry to me
<popey> hmmm
<popey> debian bug 548119
<lubotu3`> Debian bug 548119 in latex-xft-fonts "latex-xft-fonts: Error when trying to run update" [Important,Fixed] http://bugs.debian.org/548119
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Ubuntu UK Podcast] S04E19  Burning Ambition - http://podcast.ubuntu-uk.org/2011/11/09/s04e19-burning-ambition/
<popey> oooh, look at that
 * AlanBell prods directhex with https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda
<bigcalm> popey: multiplication before addition
<popey> :D
<bigcalm> That better ;)
<Azelphur> my computer is such a mismatched bunch of crazyness
<Azelphur> I use XFCE, Compiz draws my wallpaper, I use nautilus and file-roller, and I use cairo-dock instead of xfce-panel
<bigcalm> Use whatever works for you :)
<popey> bed
<popey> which is occupied
<popey> bah
 * popey goes to move the small person from the bed
<bigcalm> Awww
<bigcalm> Gosh, it is late :S
<ubuntubhoy> you have a midget infestation ?
<Dave2> I have TWO beds, both unoccupied. I win.
<Dave2> Wait, that's not how it works is it.
<bigcalm> Why do you have 2?
<bigcalm> One for the goat?
 * bigcalm notices this isn't the channel he thought it was
<Dave2> because i have a spare bedroom. it mainly contains boxes and my laundry that's drying, but on the rare occasion that someone needs to stay overnight, it's there.
<Myrtti> snerk
<Dave2> hah.
<christel> would you like a goat that can live in your spare room?
<christel> if yes, i will get you one for christmas
<bigcalm> Awww, that's true friendship :)
<bigcalm> christel: can I have a pony?
<christel> sure!
<bigcalm> \o/
<christel> (clo..oh wait)
<bigcalm> Except I am horribly allergic to equines
<christel> aww
<christel> i'll get you a my little pony pony then
<bigcalm> Yeah, does suck a little
<bigcalm> Hehe :D
<christel> mm
<christel> i have been to loldongs
<christel> for yummy japanese
<bigcalm> o.O
<christel> followed by an accidental visit to that haagen-dazs place
<Dave2> christel, i don't think a goat would like living in my spare room :(
<christel> awww
<christel> no grass?
<Dave2> no grass, limited space, i'd be out of the place most of the time and i'm the only person who'd be here, that sort of thing
 * christel nods
<christel> a
<christel> w
<bigcalm> Anybody like cats and dislike mice?
 * bigcalm again realises he is not in the channel he thought he was
<bigcalm> Damn it
 * Dave2 claps.
<bigcalm> Dave2: I'd get that seen to
<Dave2> :(
<bigcalm> Sleepy times
#ubuntu-uk 2011-11-10
<Azelphur> anyone got any opinions on this? http://www.boffer.co.uk/
<Azelphur> on the surface of it it doesn't look too bad for a Â£100 tablet o.O
<ubuntubhoy> resistive screen, it will drive hyou nuts
<ubuntubhoy> you*
<Azelphur> ah
<ali1234> Processor: ZiiLABS ZMS-08 HD Media-Rich Applications Processor what?
<ali1234> Operating System: Android 2.1 fail
<Azelphur> righto, fail it is then :P
<ali1234> Screen Resolution: 480 x 800 pixels Oh dear, my phone has more pixels than that
<Azelphur> tbh I should be trying to get my laptop back off this company that's had it in for repair for the past 3 months -.-
<ali1234> still i suppose it's not bad for Â£100
<Azelphur> doesn't look great shopping around you can get a refurb nook color for Â£110
<Azelphur> and it's cm supported with better specs :D
<ali1234> tablets are a bit rubbish anyway
<Azelphur> indeed
<Azelphur> my netbook can be a tablet, if I ever see it again xD
<ubuntubhoy> tablets are fine, as long as you remember they aint PC's
<ali1234> "tablets are fine as long as you remember they don't really do anything useful"
<ali1234> "tablets are fine as long as you remember they are not PCs or netbooks or a kindle or a TV or a phone"
<ubuntubhoy> lol
<ubuntubhoy> they work ok as Kindles
<ali1234> they work OK as any of those things, except maybe the phone part
<ubuntubhoy> and the PC part
<AlanBell> morning all
<MartijnVdS> \o AlanBell
<gordonjcp> morning
<gordonjcp> woo, time to leave
<daubers> Morning
<popey> Morning.
<daubers> So Reading now has a hackspace with a space \o/
<daubers> (even if the space is in Woodley)
<diplo> Morning
<TheOpenSourcerer> Meauning
<dgjones> Morning all
<czajkowski> aloha
 * TheOpenSourcerer wonders if AlanBell is wake yet...
<TheOpenSourcerer> s/wale/awake
<popey> 07:35:43 < AlanBell> morning all
<TheOpenSourcerer> arggh
<TheOpenSourcerer> Thanks popey
<popey> np
<TheOpenSourcerer> That was before I had booted up :-)
 * AlanBell returns with coffee
<TheOpenSourcerer> Made the first coffee/tea at 06:15 though :-(
<TheOpenSourcerer> Morning AlanBell
<popey> i was dreaming at 06:15
<TheOpenSourcerer> Did you see my message last night about that little chilli I gave you?
 * popey makes more coffee
<MartijnVdS> coffee? heathen!
<AlanBell> TheOpenSourcerer: I did, I will be very careful of it
<AlanBell> I was a bit scared to begin wiht
 * TheOpenSourcerer is already on 3rd cup
 * MartijnVdS has very black tea
<TheOpenSourcerer> It was probably, the hottest one I have *ever* had.
<AlanBell> what does it take to get a chilli measured?
<MartijnVdS> a scoville scale?
<popey> a chromatograph?
<MartijnVdS> exactly
<TheOpenSourcerer> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scoville_scale
<TheOpenSourcerer> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-performance_liquid_chromatography "This article may be too technical for most readers to understand." :-)
<popey> hah
<TheOpenSourcerer> AlanBell: get one of these rigs and you are there! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Hplc.JPG
<AlanBell> I think perhaps I will stick to the Bombay Torpedos to add to my scrambled eggs :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> The Dorset Naga is claimed to be in this range (855,000â1,463,700)
<popey> i had scrambled egg this morning
<popey> with salmon
<MartijnVdS> popey: Canonical pays well, then?
<daubers> popey: Why did you ruin perfectly good eggs?
<popey> haha
<popey> it was discounted salmon in the co-op âº
<popey> made a sarnie for wifey and brekkie for me
<popey> salmon in eggs is nyommy
<AlanBell> you can get scrambled eggs with salmon in the Popham Little Chef
<TheOpenSourcerer> The *Bangalore* Torpedo is probably in the 30 - 50,000 category ;-)
 * AlanBell wonders if âºâºâºâº is a bug in the font
<MartijnVdS> MY EYES
<popey> a bug?
<MartijnVdS> popey: Ubuntu Mono + multiple adjacent smiley faces = merged smiley faces
<AlanBell> the âº glyph is wider than the monospaced space it should be sat in
<popey> ah
<popey> i am on the mac atm
<AlanBell> however I am not sure I want that bug fixed
<popey> will switch in 5 mins
<czajkowski> aloha
<Laney> it is because it falls back to another font
<Laney> which is wider
<Laney> afaik
<Laney> ââºâ
<AlanBell> good point Laney, thanks
<Laney> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-font-family/+bug/862401
<lubotu3`> Ubuntu bug 862401 in Ubuntu Font Family "Mono: please add left/right arrows" [Wishlist,Confirmed]
<AlanBell> ooh, nottingham happiness tonight
<TheOpenSourcerer> Anyone know a good "cisco engineer"?
<TheOpenSourcerer> for hire/rent?
<dwatkins> TheOpenSourcerer: You mean someone with a CCNA?
 * daubers used to be cisco qualified
<Laney> AlanBell: you coming?
<AlanBell> Laney: sadly not, bit far for me
<Laney> :(
<AlanBell> tonytiger: o/
<daubers> Anybody know where I can get printed mifare cards for a reasonable price?
<AlanBell> anyone from the Southampton area here?
 * popey points AlanBell at tonytiger 
<bigcalm> He's grrrrrrreat?
<AlanBell> he is :)
<bigcalm> This is true
 * bigcalm tares himself away from uupc to make some coffee
<bigcalm> Oh, good morning peeps :)
 * BigRedS ponders making a packaging-related joke at bigcalm 
<BigRedS> good morning!
<bigcalm> BigRedS: you've lost me already. Obviously I need that coffee that is still brewing
<bigcalm> And hi :)
<BigRedS> haha! G'morning!
<BigRedS> Tare weight is the bit of net weight that is packaging
<BigRedS> I think
<BigRedS> contrived, perhaps. pedantic, definitely
<bigcalm> Ah
<bigcalm> I should open my calendar more often. Just noticed that my car's MOT expires at the end of the month :(
<AlanBell> mine expires on saturday
<AlanBell> might go sit in the MOT place with my laptop this afternoon
<BigRedS> Oh. My insurance probably expires soon.
<BigRedS> Last year I went to the bikelive show on this bike, and that's in a couple of weeks
<daubers> BigRedS: I went to that last year!
<daubers> BigRedS: Not going this year though :(
<BigRedS> daubers: I'm still a maybe for this year
<BigRedS> the only day I can go is the mondau, but technically I'm working until 6am that day...
<Laney> man, sometimes aptitude can be quite dense
 * AlanBell wonders if TheOpenSourcerer wants a nice tasty chicken
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Is it dead?
<AlanBell> TheOpenSourcerer: no, but it will be
<TheOpenSourcerer> AlanBell: We are away all this weekend.
<TheOpenSourcerer> "Youth Hostelling for 36 adults & kids"
<AlanBell> nice
<AlanBell> take them a chicken :)
<bigcalm> Heh
<AlanBell> hey kids, this is how you pluck a chicken
<bigcalm> AlanBell: has it stopped pooping eggs?
<AlanBell> bigcalm: it is a boy :(
<bigcalm> Ah
<AlanBell> boys are noisy and useless
<popey> HAH!
<TheOpenSourcerer> Now where have I heard that before???
<BigRedS> My mother says things like that :(
<popey> we often have boys vs girls at home
<popey> given there's 3 of each
<BigRedS> Then she acquired stepdaughters and changed her mind :)
<popey> Me, Sam & Salem (cat) are the 'cool boys' and Clare, Sophie and Pringle (cat) are the 'smelly girls'
<popey> blimey asus transformer is only 434 quid with the keyboard
<TheOpenSourcerer> "*only* Â£434" Spoken like someone who is more used to paying overblown Apple prices ;-)
<BigRedS> took me a few seconds to realise he wasn't talking about a power supply
<brobostigon> !info udisks-deamon
<lubotu3`> Package udisks-deamon does not exist in natty
<BigRedS> brobostigon: !info udisks-daemon ?
<BigRedS> !info udisks-daemon
<lubotu3`> Package udisks-daemon does not exist in natty
<BigRedS> oh
<AlanBell> popey: are they available to buy yet?
<popey> AlanBell: which?
<popey> the transformer is, the newer 'transformer prime' isnt
<AlanBell> ok
<brobostigon> !info udisks
<lubotu3`> udisks (source: udisks): storage media interface. In component main, is optional. Version 1.0.2-4ubuntu2 (natty), package size 209 kB, installed size 1056 kB
<KrisDouglas> I <3 my Transformer
<MartijnVdS> Robots in disguise?
<KrisDouglas> quite so MartijnVdS
<TheOpenSourcerer> Ebuyer have the Transformer for Â£419.93
<TheOpenSourcerer> (Not the quad core)
<popey> ooooo
<TheOpenSourcerer> http://www.ebuyer.com/262116-asus-transformer-tf101-tablet-pc-tf101-1b028a
<KrisDouglas> I paid 429 for my Transformer TF101
<KrisDouglas> @ PCW
<popey> what gives with the circles on keys?
<KrisDouglas> what do you mean?
<ubuntubhoy> is anyone having issues with Wine in precise ?
<popey> on 1, 6 and up and down
<popey> they have circles on them
<JamesTait> Tippity-top-tastic Thursday, everyone! ;)
<KrisDouglas> Not a clue :)
<popey> http://image.ebuyer.com/UK/P600-0262116-02.jpg
<DJones> Maybe its Google Plus ready :)
<KrisDouglas> popey, the function key combined with one of those buttons does nothing different than their original function
<KrisDouglas> (excluding pgup and pgdown ofc)
<Laney> quassel!
 * Laney joins in with the quiz
<bigcalm> Nobody picked my obscure answer for the Dr. Who question
<Laney> s390! mipsel!
<popey> oooo local shop has a transformer
<Laney> this quiz amuses me
<Laney> iain approves
<popey> what quiz?
<Laney> on the uupc
<popey> oh :D
<popey> wondered what you were whittering on about then :D
<Laney> gutsy gibbon
<Dave2> I'd given almost a full list for the Ubuntu codenames and had just forgotten Breezy :(
<popey> wish I'd had that question
<Laney> do we have the full lists?
<popey> i would have said edgy
<Laney> seeing what people said would be QI
<Dave2> I put edgy.
<popey> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Releases
<Laney> nein, the answers people gave
<Dave2> But then I put everything except Breezy.
<popey> oh
<popey> i bet intrepid wasnt a popular one people said
<Dave2> I definitely put down intrepid, for obvious reasons.
<Laney> i remember it for its lovely t-shirt
<popey> i prefer the bird one
<Dave2> Hardy?
<popey> ya
<popey> i have a few of them
<KrisDouglas> My girlfriend always wears the Hardy t-shirt :)
<Laney> mine got shredded by the washing machine
<Dave2> Could've been dapper.
<Laney> but then the missus repaired it by doing a fabric graft
<Dave2> (Did they do dapper t-shirts?)
<Laney> which means it is now disturbingly tight
<KrisDouglas> Laney, lol. It was disturbingly tight on me anyway. Like a swimsuit 8-) Hence girlfriend use
<KrisDouglas> I could write a manpage on how to obliterate an IRC channel. Did everyone die?
<ubuntubhoy> 10:30 - Tea break
<kirrus> 10:45 Talk about junk break
<ubuntubhoy> close, 10:45 - nip out for a piss and a fag skive
<czajkowski> directhex: I love how your blog feed is down for one of the feeds I've to watch!
<czajkowski> at work
<directhex> o_o
<czajkowski> directhex: I work at h-online.com
<czajkowski> your blog is under one of the feeds we watch
<popey> is it filed under 'epic mono troll' ?
<bigcalm> Heh
<directhex> i suspect that's from chats on twitter with codepope
<czajkowski> popey: I'm shocked yours isnt
<czajkowski> I may need to fix that
<czajkowski> :p
<popey> i wouldn't bother
<popey> i dont blog interesting stuff tbh
<popey> that might change in the future
<popey> :D
<czajkowski> indeed
<czajkowski> so in todays feeds so far all I can see is linux mint bumping ubuntu off the top spot
<czajkowski> and fedora 16 still
<bigcalm> The WC is getting out of hand :)
<popey> yeah
<czajkowski> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/apple/8879705/The-voice-behind-Siri-breaks-his-silence.html  found this one interesting
<davmor2> morning all czajkowski prod
<daubers> identi.ca must be playing in the big leagues now! I've just had my first spam follower
 * czajkowski kicks davmor2 
 * davmor2 prods czajkowski repeatedly in the same spot
<czajkowski> davmor2: look you did that last week and I had a brusise on my arm
<czajkowski> though to be fair you really freaked some folks up by walking up to me and ppking my arm
<czajkowski> very odd looks indeed
<davmor2> czajkowski: hehehe
<davmor2> czajkowski: I'd say you bruised me when you hit me with the noise you're knuckles made but errmmm you didn't sorry :)
<czajkowski> charming
<davmor2> czajkowski: well you know these things happen
<davmor2> gord: you about dude?
 * Dave2 raises an eyebrow.
<Lantizia> Ubuntu LPIC Exam 199 - anyone know if it is still going or not?
<popey> AlanBell: now I'm working from home I'm thinking of looking for a wokspace outside home so I can get a day away from the house. interested in looking for one?
<AlanBell> funnily enough I was going to suggest something of the kind, like the wolves crowd are doing
<TheOpenSourcerer> Bizarre. I also was pondering the same.
<KrisDouglas> I couldn't work from home, 2meg broadband vs 44meg broadband.
<TheOpenSourcerer> I would actually quite like a proper "office"
<czajkowski> TheOpenSourcerer: AlanBell popey http://coworkingspace.info/
<czajkowski> TheOpenSourcerer: AlanBell popey http://wiki.coworking.info/w/page/16583718/CoworkingSurrey
<TheOpenSourcerer> Ha - I know the first name on that list!
<AlanBell> interesting
<TheOpenSourcerer> The Maltings has some (AIUI) low-cost rooms for this.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Roger Goscomb offered us use of some of their space in Frensham if we needed it...
<popey> are you guys in FSB?
<TheOpenSourcerer> No.
<TheOpenSourcerer> SCC though
<popey> FSB let you use Regus communal areas for nothing
<TheOpenSourcerer> Not quite what I had in mind.
<popey> yeah
<popey> useful for adhoc stuff
<TheOpenSourcerer> Then so is Starbuck ;-)
<popey> true
<TheOpenSourcerer> \s
<popey> free tea/coffee at Regus :D
<popey> unlike Starbucks
<TheOpenSourcerer> True
<bigcalm> popey: I have suggested the workplace day davmor2 and I will be attended next week
<bigcalm> Apart from myself, it appears to be mostly Canonical people anyway
<popey> bit far for us âº
<bigcalm> Pfft :P
<bigcalm> Only 150 miles
<bigcalm> :D
<davmor2> haha
<davmor2> popey: shame on you where's your dedication dude 3 hours of train rides is a light commute for you dude ;)
<popey> who was it here who has a transformer?
<popey> kirrus: ?
<popey> ah, KrisDouglas
<popey> KrisDouglas: whats the first 3 digits of the serial number on yours?
<KrisDouglas> popey, the transformer?
<popey> yes
<popey> not the keyboard, the device itself
<KrisDouglas> sadly it's an unrootable B70 class
 * kirrus waves hello, bye bye, and goes back to lurking
<popey> and how long ago did you get it
<popey> bummer
<popey> B60 is the rootable one isnt it?
<KrisDouglas> B70KAS215707
<KrisDouglas> Some B70's are
<KrisDouglas> you see mine is KAS21
<KrisDouglas> some of them (CAS14) use the old SBK to encrypt the bootloader
<KrisDouglas> sorry nvflash, not bootloader
<popey> hmm
<KrisDouglas> I am just past the bracket for a rootable one and I bought this about 3 months back
<KrisDouglas> I would give a much loved body part for a rootable one :)
<KrisDouglas> I will just patiently wait for them to leak the new SBK however.
<czajkowski> I should start to take bets on snow and my flight home for xmas!
<ubuntubhoy> is anyone else having trouble with Wine 1.3 in either 11.10 or 12.04 ?
<bigcalm> Whatever ships with 11.10 broke SQLyog for me :(
<bigcalm> Might get around to pinning an old version
<KrisDouglas> ubuntubhoy, It seems to be working well for me, better than the previous person to be honest. What problem are you experiencing?
<davmor2> czajkowski: just book the train and ferry and save the heart ache
<awilkins> Buffet restaurant lunches : an exercise in gluttony AND disappointment
<popey> I don't miss thursday at my last place of work
<popey> "Disappointing curry day"
<bigcalm> It's Thursday?
<bigcalm> Gah, I'm missing another day
<awilkins> It is.
<ubuntubhoy> KrisDouglas, cant get kindle to install, or previous install to start
<bigcalm> popey: got a moment to test something for me please? :)
<popey> ya
<bigcalm> Yay
<KrisDouglas> ubuntubhoy, do you run any other apps under wine?
<czajkowski> yay for 4 day weeks :)
<KrisDouglas> if you don't we could try resetting the bottle
<KrisDouglas> sorry about the delayed response
<ubuntubhoy> NP
<ubuntubhoy> no, nothing else
<KrisDouglas> Righto, open winetricks
<KrisDouglas> select use default prefix, and then delete all data and applications
<KrisDouglas> then close and try re-installing
<ubuntubhoy> no joy - same result
<KrisDouglas> let me try, one sec
<KrisDouglas> I presume it has worked before, I'm sure i know someone else who uses it
<ubuntubhoy> yeah
<ubuntubhoy> iirc it wont work with the latest Kindle app
<ubuntubhoy> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/6297429/KindleForPC-installer.exe
<ubuntubhoy> thats an older one I have used a load of times before
<davmor2> ubuntubhoy: if it is that you just want to  read your kindle books you can install chromium and the kindle web app and read it from the browser
<KrisDouglas> Yeah, the installer doesn't even load from the one that's on the amazon website
<KrisDouglas> davmor2, smart arse :)
<ubuntubhoy> davmor2, not keen on the web app
<ubuntubhoy> and cabalt is it, is a little cluttered
<davmor2> ubuntubhoy: No it's the official Amazon Kindle chrome application
<ubuntubhoy> yeah
<ubuntubhoy> not cabalt, calibre
<ubuntubhoy> nice app, but too cluttered
<KrisDouglas> ubuntubhoy, I can't even get the installer you linked to load ;)
<ubuntubhoy> davmor2, using it on a touchscreen
<KrisDouglas> ubuntubhoy, buy a kindle? :)
<ubuntubhoy> KrisDouglas, worse than me then
<ubuntubhoy> lol
<KrisDouglas> Yeah, everything else works
<ubuntubhoy> K
<ubuntubhoy> cheers anyway
<ubuntubhoy> will see if I can find a wine 1.3 thats a little older somewhere
<ubuntubhoy> think its wine rather than Ubuntu
<KrisDouglas> might be something I'm missing but i'm certain I have windows installer setup
<KrisDouglas> if I had more time I would try running it from the command line and seeing what messages it was dumping
<ubuntubhoy> dont fret on it, was just checking if it was me or not
<KrisDouglas> possibly, I am on the PPA latest version, so you and I may be experiencing similar issues
<ubuntubhoy> yeah, if your 1.3 you should be ppa
<ubuntubhoy> 1.2 is the standard repo version
<ubuntubhoy> but it wont work with 1.2
<ubuntubhoy> that said its not working with 1.4 now either
<ubuntubhoy> 1.3*
<bastubis> I just read that Adobe are abandoning AIR for Linux so does this mean users won't be able to run Acroread any moer?
<AlanBell> that is unrelated
<bastubis> It doesn't run on AIR?
<AlanBell> not to my knowledge, but I could be wrong
<AlanBell> thought it was just a native application
<AlanBell> BBC iPlayer is an air thing
<brobostigon> i agree with alanbell, acrobat doesnt use air on linux,
<ali1234> acroread is ancient
<Dave2> Does anyone actually use acroread on Linux though?
<bastubis> Yes, voluntary sector organisations
<bastubis> it's crucial for them
<AlanBell> why?
<bastubis> all their funding applications have to be made on interactive pdf forms
<bastubis> evince effs them up
<bastubis> it's a deal breaker for them
<AlanBell> ok, interesting
<bastubis> if they can't use acroread they'll have to stop using linux
<ali1234> have you reported it as a bug?
<bastubis> it's not a bug
<AlanBell> is there a bug against evince for this?
<ali1234> yes it is
<bastubis> oh, sorry - evince lol
<ali1234> with examples would be helpful too... are the forms publicly available?
<AlanBell> I installed acroread once on ubuntu and it is horrible and slow, so I use evince, never had any issue with it , but I don't come across interactive PDF files
<ali1234> they've always been a problem
<bastubis> they're unuseable
<bastubis> you can fill in a pdf and print it (sort of, though this isn't very good either)
<bastubis> but if you try to save them, they corrupt
<bastubis> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=480668
<lubotu3`> Gnome bug 480668 in PDF "save user input in pdf fillable forms" [Enhancement,Resolved: fixed]
<bastubis> and people running Windows can't open the file
<bastubis> I couldn't open it again on Ubuntu either
<bastubis> I just install acroread for them - as far as I know it runs on AIR
<bastubis> I use it myself for funding applications
<AlanBell> either way, the current version of acroread will still work
<AlanBell> don't know if they are ever going to release any updates to it
<bastubis> yes, but eventually it'll become incompatible with current systems
<bastubis> surely?
<bastubis> they said they're not going to develop it anymore
<AlanBell> no, not really
<bastubis> so it'll stay in the partner repos?
<AlanBell> don't see why not
<AlanBell> might not go into new partner repos, but you should be able to grab the .deb file from the older ones if it doesn't
<AlanBell> and file bugs against evince if there are forms it doesn't work with
<brobostigon> ok, in debian sid, under non-free repo, acroread has no depend on adobe air. so can be installed and ran without adobe air. conclusive.
<bastubis> apparently americans also use it for their tax forms: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/evince/+bug/518230
<lubotu3`> Ubuntu bug 518230 in evince (Ubuntu) "Some PDF forms don't save entered information" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<bastubis> ah, that's a relief then
<Twinkletoes> Troubles with vim syntax, I'm trying to sort a range of lines. I've marked a and b (and verified using :marks), and am using the command:  ma,mbsort    but I'm getting an error "E488 Trailing Characters".
<bastubis> Evince pretty much doesn't work with *any* forms - I can't file a bug every time lol
<AlanBell> "Running the original pdf through either pdfopt or pdfedit's delinearize
<AlanBell> function creates a form that can be correctly saved, at least in this
<ali1234> you don't need to
<bastubis> yeah but a bunch of VCS organisations aren't going to do that
<AlanBell> no, but it is an interesting suggestion which indicates that the problem might be solveable
<AlanBell> sounds to me like the source forms don't conform to the standard
<bastubis> yes, looks that way
<AlanBell> but acrobat is incorrectly working fine with them
<bastubis> but you can't control what the US tax office - or UK funders - do with their forms
<AlanBell> so evince needs to reproduce the bug in acrobat that make it work fine
<bastubis> it has to work with whatever messed up rubbish such agencies choose to foist on us
<AlanBell> indeed
<ali1234> the bug is probably in the standard
<AlanBell> either way, report bugs give them an example of a form that doesn't work
<bastubis> I think they'd want to kill me after a couple of weeks lol
<bastubis> very few forms *do* work
<bastubis> In fact, I never met any one form that did
 * AlanBell has never come across any forms
<popey> i have
<popey> HMRC have some
<popey> i usually print them
<bastubis> My accountant copes with the tax, but she uses Windows
<bastubis> god popey - try filling in a funder form with a biro lol
<AlanBell> I think I may have come across an HMRC form that I had to fill out on screen and then print and sign
<bastubis> they're 20 pages or worse
<bastubis> Funders send you massive, bureaucratic forms 20-40 pages long
<bastubis> when printed, they're about 3 inches thick
<AlanBell> there was no saving of it and it seemed to work fine in evince, don't think I have ever saved a form
<bastubis> You have to fill in mountains of detailed crap
<bastubis> and then email the result
<bastubis> It usually takes several days to fill them in, and you need to save constantly or you lose your wwork
<bastubis> then you have to print two copies, email one and mail one, with one for your files
<bastubis> so you know what you said to them
<DJones> When I'm forward buying foreign currency, the bank faxes a document to confirm, which I can then either fax or post back to them, or scan & email.  Why don't they just email it to me in the first place
<bastubis> It's so complicated that if it doesn't save properly, you've lost days of work
<DJones> At no point does anybody have to sign what they send through, I literaly just send exactly what they send me, back unchanged
<bastubis> I have the same problem with my bank, have to print it out, sign it, scan it, email it back
<KrisDouglas> Fax to email :)
<KrisDouglas> I think i have a virus, I keep killing ubuntu UK
<DJones> Heh
<DJones> Probably so many people were at UDS recently, they're still writing up their notes from then & deciding who's going to do what
<Myrtti>  i think i locked myself out :-(
<Myrtti> boo
<KrisDouglas> DJones, maybe.
<KrisDouglas> Myrtti, of Ubuntu or your house?
<KrisDouglas> I can probably solve the former but the latter is a touchy subject :)
<Myrtti> my aoartment
<KrisDouglas> oh.
<KrisDouglas> well it's not all bad news, how much battery do you have remaining?
<Myrtti> latter is a touchy subject for a Finnish Tarzan
<Myrtti> enough to go to my sisters by bus, was going anyway but may have forgotten to pack my keys
<Myrtti> among other things
<KrisDouglas> well you don't have to commit suicide just yet if you still have battery
<KrisDouglas> now is your chance to use the power of google to become a locksmith
<Myrtti> haha no
<Myrtti> two Abloy executive standard locks
<Myrtti> cant pick them
<Myrtti> Ill just return with a spare key, my sister has one
<Myrtti> if I werent going to hers, I'd call the maintenance guys, they have a master key
<Myrtti> also bill 30-60e for it
<bigcalm> So glad I didn't bother adding 1-2 day shipping onto my Amazon order and went with the free 3-5 day option. Email from Amazon saying the item I ordered last night has just been shipped this afternoon
<bigcalm> Must be a slow day for them
<gord> <3 amazon prime
<bigcalm> I don't order enough to be able to make use of prime
<bigcalm> gord: are you joining us for the work place day next week?
<gord> should do, weather permitting - if its freezing cold and pouring down, maybe not ;)
<bigcalm> Ah, sweet
<bigcalm> You can offset davmor2's crazyness ;)
<bigcalm> I think mrevell is joining us as well
<bigcalm> That's 4, any more?
 * bigcalm pokes aquarius
<mrevell> bigcalm, I aim to. drussell may want to as well.
<bigcalm> mrevell: yay. Though I'm not sure if I've seen drussell talk before
<mrevell> There are some other people knocking around our area from Canonical who I might prod.
<bigcalm> Yeah, I'm feeling a little out of place not working for Canonical :P
 * aquarius is poked
<aquarius> what about?
<bigcalm> aquarius: work place day at the Lighthouse next Thursday
<bigcalm> (17th)
<aquarius> ah, right. Don't know at the moment
<bigcalm> Which isn't a flat out 'no', good enough for now :)
<davmor2> bigcalm: I'm not cra-tic-zy
<bigcalm> davmor2: keep telling yourself that. Shall we call you Darling?
<davmor2> bigcalm: I'm more worried about you calling me darling :/
<ali1234> is anyone going to the happy hour?
<ali1234> it's tonight right?
<popey> yes
<bigcalm> Not in my location
<ali1234> popey: are you really "might be attending"?
<ali1234> isn't it a bit far from you?
<popey> 17:00:51 < ali1234> it's tonight right?
<popey> 17:00:56 < popey> yes
<popey> âº
<bigcalm> He's a bugger for that
<ali1234> popey: yeah but... on the page it says you "might be attending"
<popey> oh i see
<bigcalm> Best to check what popey is actually answering to :P
 * popey fix0r3s that
<ali1234> that page is really hard to find btw
<popey> fix0r3d
<popey> yes, it is
<popey> well, i went loco.ubuntu.com -> click europe -> click uk -> click event
<Laney> what page?
<popey> http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-uk/1373/detail/
<Laney> ta
<ali1234> i have to find it by going to the uuk mailing list and finding the post where it is linked
<popey> i tried to argue that it should be /teamname/eventname/ or /teamname/yy/mm/dd/event or something
<ali1234> if i go to the happy hour main page, it isn't linked
<popey> but the loco directory guys are somewhat resistant to removing those numbers in the middle
<ali1234> http://ubuntu-uk.org/happy-hour/ <- this one
<ali1234> that one is easy to find
<ali1234> but it doesn't link to the event pages
<popey> well thats silly
<popey> the ones above link right
<ali1234> the ones above?
<drussell> mrevell: :oD hehe yeah I'm hoping to also...
<ali1234> the thing is if you google "ubuntu happy hour" you get that listing page i just linked, and you can't get from there to the individual event pages
<popey> fixed
<ali1234> also did you know that the "ubuntu-uk" in the event url is meaningless? only the number does anything, you can put any valid loco or possibly any string in place of "ubuntu-uk" and you still get the event, eg http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/balhbalh/1373/detail/
<popey> haha
<ali1234> i found this because i was trying to find it starting at the 1277 (everyone knows 1277 right) by incrementing the number
<popey> thats probably why they dont want the url monkeyed with
<ali1234> and i got all other loco events
<aquarius> popey, did you ever experiment with software audio transcription for uupc?
<ali1234> so anyone from IRC going to this thing? or is it all mailing list people?
<aquarius> specifically: if you did, what did you use? :)
<Laney> i am going
<Laney> as is moodoo
<ali1234> k. i'll see you there then :)
<Laney> i should find my uds badge so that i look cool
<ali1234> i should shave so i don't look like a hobo
<popey> aquarius: software to aid people doing transcriptions?
<popey> aquarius: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PodcastTranscription
<aquarius> no. speech recognition software to *do* the transcription :)
<popey> no
<aquarius> cool, just wondered :)
<MartijnVdS> Siri, transcribe the podcast for me
<popey> i had a chat with siri earlier
<MartijnVdS> popey: And?
<popey> the way he says "okay" is quite odd
<popey> it kinda tails off
<MartijnVdS> Okaaayy...
<popey> yeah
<popey> uh-kaaay
<MartijnVdS> must be something 'merkin
 * MartijnVdS runs off to see how his standard lap looks in the dark
<kaushal> Hi
<kaushal> Can someone please guide me about http://iwatch.sourceforge.net/index.html
<kaushal> I have installed and its up and running in daemon mode
<kaushal> I have tested it by editing /etc/motd file
<kaushal> i did not get a email alert after editing it
<kaushal> Am i missing something
<kaushal> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/734425/
<bigcalm> kaushal: can you send email from that machine?
<kaushal> bigcalm: yes
<DaveBugs> Evening
<DaveBugs> Anyone heading to the Nottingham Happy Hour tonight?
<popey> i suspect some are, yes âº
<DaveBugs> Popey: Does that include you now? :-)
<popey> nope
<DaveBugs> Woohoo!
<DaveBugs> I mean, too bad.
<popey> hah
 * TheOpenSourcerer wants to go out for a beer this evening but it's Parent's evening at the school. :-(
<Hux18> ~emaker
<Hux18> #emaker
<popey> heh, i had my parents evening last night
<TheOpenSourcerer> All good?
<TheOpenSourcerer> My wife was out last night with her mates.
<TheOpenSourcerer> We are both out tomorrow - so no pub for me :-(
<popey> yeah, all good
<TheOpenSourcerer> tea time :-)
<TheOpenSourcerer> bbl
 * bigcalm wonders where his Hayley is
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: stuck in traffic
<MartijnVdS> </guess>
<MartijnVdS> Buying you an early christmas present
<MartijnVdS> </guess>
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: I'll go with the latter please
<DaveBugs> At The Roundhouse... Rather early.
<ali1234> i'm just setting off
<ali123456> testing irc works on my phone
<popey> heh
<AlanBell> ali123456: it does \o/
<DaveBugs> ali123456: see you in a bit
<shauno> oauth can die in fire :(
<MartijnVdS> shauno: what alternative do you propose
<shauno> a thousand papercuts might be a suitable alternate death.  fire seems simpler though
<MartijnVdS> no I mean alternative to oauth
<DaveBugs> LOL
<shauno> I'm trying to do a single-user command-line app to a web service.  a simple shared secret would suffice
<DaveBugs> C'mon, it's 19:02... Where is everyone?
<MartijnVdS> \o
<DaveBugs> It's not very Ubuntu-y here at the moment.
<DaveBugs> Just me and my beer.
 * gordonjcp is about to go out for a drive
<MartijnVdS> Beer
<MartijnVdS> DaveBugs: you have great ideas
<DaveBugs> Yes, yes I do.
<gordonjcp> not for me right now
<shauno> I rarely get any more entertaining than this, unfortunately
<shauno> there's something about waking up at 4:30am which inflicts all the personality of a zombie :(
<DaveBugs> shauno: try beer.
<shauno> that'd currently lead to a grape vs grain conflict
<mgdm> gordonjcp: anywhere fun?
<bigcalm> Do zombies like beer?
<DaveBugs> shauno: ouch, you don't want that.
<MartijnVdS> I have some beer my brothers made
<MartijnVdS> \o/
<shauno> bigcalm: I hope so, because it's about all ireland has when The Day comes
<Darael> bigcalm: They like that Welsh beverage, at least.
<DaveBugs> Why didn't I bring a USB cable :-(
<shauno> MartijnVdS: by 'my brothers', I'm chosing to believe you keep a small commune of trappist monks imprisoned in your basement for this very purpose :)
<MartijnVdS> shauno: You may choose to believe that :)
<MartijnVdS> shauno: Except I don't have the basement
<Darael> shauno: Bear in mind that he /would/ deny it.
<shauno> interesting.  I've never tried keeping monks anywhere else
<MartijnVdS> Darael: I would?
<MartijnVdS> Darael: I need my dungeons for other things
<shauno> of course.  a dutchman with belgian beer?  the scandal would reach the tabloids
<Darael> MartijnVdS: Most people would.  They wouldn't want anyone stealing the monks.
<Darael> That, too.
<MartijnVdS> shauno: there's an official Trappist brewery near Tilburg in the Netherlands
<shauno> heh, good save
<MartijnVdS> shauno: they were in the news yesterday, they need to get more tanks because of increased demand
<MartijnVdS> shauno: http://www.latrappe.nl
<shauno> surely there's cheaper methods of crowd control.  tanks seem a tad OTT for monks
<MartijnVdS> shauno: it's _beer_ we're talking about
<MartijnVdS> shauno: isn't that also what the London riots were about earlier?>
<shauno> no idea, I didn't think to ask
<gordonjcp> mgdm: nah, just dropping off and picking up bits of junk
<mgdm> gordonjcp: ah
<shauno> I haven't lived in the UK for a *long* time.  ever since I discovered KFC were the only people willing to even offer me an interview
<MartijnVdS> shauno: Why's that?
<MartijnVdS> shauno: criminal record?
<shauno> because I lived in a blackhole that was built around ironworks and shipbuilding.  neither of which are exactly growth industries anymore
<gordonjcp> shauno: where do you live now?
<MartijnVdS> a cardboard box?
<shauno> currently, ireland
<shauno> I tried the states but they're a bit .. I'm not sure of a polite way to describe it
<mgdm> A bit too much like the US?
<mgdm> :)
<shauno> polarizing, I guess.  it's either really works for you, or it really doesn't
<DaveBugs> Marmite.
<MartijnVdS> *shudder*
<popey> \o/
<DaveBugs> LOL
<shauno> I have to say ireland's working out a charm, however.  they're similar enough to $HOME to be comfortable, but different enough to be worth the move
<DaveBugs> Hehe
<shauno> DaveBugs: that's a perfect analogy.  the US is marmite.
<gord> i don't have a drivers licence, if i tried to live in the states i'd die of starvation within weeks.
<MartijnVdS> gord: nah in big cities you don't need a car unless you live in the 'burbs
<gordonjcp> gord: I do have a driving licence, but if I tried to live in the states I'd die of boredom on their roads
<shauno> I don't either.  Cycling in michigan winters is a very peculiar skill
<gordonjcp> miles and miles and miles of perfectly straight road, with a 55mph speed limit, and cars that can't actually stop or go round corners and struggle to manage the speed limit anyway
 * czajkowski hugs gord 
<popey> I had a nice hire car at UDS
<popey> scared sladen a bit with it :D
<czajkowski> you did indeed
<smittix> does anyone know how to change the window font size in 11.10? gnome tweak tool doesnt seem to want to change that.
<smittix> every other font it changes fine.
<MartijnVdS> popey: one of those monster SUVs?
<smittix> popey: sladen as in paul sladen?
<shauno> I bought a 1974 mini.  which was all very well, but I had to actively search for roads with enough corners to make it worth it.  luckily michigan is blessed with a couple of coastlines
<czajkowski> smittix: aye
<smittix> heh went to school with him.
 * MartijnVdS sticks to his Smart
 * smittix has a Zafira
<gordonjcp> I need to decide whether I'm keeping or selling the CitroÃ«n
<shauno> I want another mini here, but they've so many guards that I've a feeling I'll need a license this time
<gordonjcp> I haven't driven it this year
<MartijnVdS> gord: Citroen what?
<MartijnVdS> uhr
<MartijnVdS> gordonjcp:
<gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: CX 22TRS
<MartijnVdS> tab error :)
<czajkowski> smittix: really, he's a really good guy
<MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: ah oldie?
<gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: I've got an '81 CX Reflex stored in my mate's yard, too
<MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: I have a '02 ForTwo
<gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: I have a Mercedes van for work, so I tend to not use the car so much
<smittix> czajkowski: aye, nice bloke indeed.
<gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: don't know if you were at Oggcamp but that's what I went there in
<shauno> gordonjcp: that sounds like the best way to do it.  that way, you can get the silly impractical car that's actually fun
<gordonjcp> diesel for half the trip was, uh, sponsored by my fuel card
<MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: I wasn't, but I'll try to be at a future Oggcamp if there is one
<popey> smittix: yes
<DaveBugs> I wanted a For Four, but them they stooped making them.
<DaveBugs> Stopped
<popey> I got a Chevy Impala I think it was
<DaveBugs> Someone is here!!
<MartijnVdS> DaveBugs: they may have stooped as well ;)
<gordonjcp> DaveBugs: I quite liked the sound of the Brabus Smart Fortwo
<DaveBugs> \I/O
<DaveBugs> Bloody stockinette
<gordonjcp> DaveBugs: with the custom-made V6 engine made of two normal Smart engines welded together
<DaveBugs> Autocomplete
<DaveBugs> Gah
<shauno> I drove the missus' chevvy for a while.  absolutely terrifying
<MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: scary
<MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: one Smart engine in a Smart is scary enough already
<DaveBugs> Hehe
<shauno> I've only driven on the interstate once.  I've only fallen asleep on the interstate once.  and I've only woken up on the interstate once.  cruise control is *not* a feature, it's a WONTFIX.
<gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: ye
<smittix> Surprised sladen doesn't lurk in here.
<gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: bet it sounds amazing
<popey> he does sometimes
<MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: it's a normal "cheap end of the spectrum" model
<smittix> Small world
<gordonjcp> right all you south of england people
<MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: I'm always surprised at how large it is on the inside
<smittix> Does he still have long hair? Haven't seen him in ages.
<gordonjcp> what would be the pros and cons of travelling to France via Folkestone or Dover?
<popey> smittix: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxZplO4XPpE
<MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: Felixstowe/Harwich <-> Hook of Holland
<smittix> popey: LOL
<gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: that's less handy for going to Switzerland
<smittix> He hasn't changed
<MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: Though car + train + tunnel is cheaper (because you pay for the car, not for separate passengers, as on a boat)
<popey> âº
<shauno> I really should try to see more of holland sometime.  iceland is currently top of my hitlist tho
<shauno> popey: what on earth was that? it set irssi's text entry to inverse video
<MartijnVdS> shauno: it's a smiley face. you might need to fix your utf8s
<shauno> bah
<gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: ah, good point, I was only looking at ferries
<MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: also, you might need to adjust your headlights on this side of the water
<shauno> tmux appears to be turning utf8 into breakfast cereal.  everything else in the chain appears to be well-behaved
<MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: (so we don't get blinded by them)
<smittix> popey: ?
<matti> :)
<popey> tmux huh.. byobu is switching from GNU Screen to tmux
<gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: there's a button for that
<MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: only for up/down, not for left/right
<MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: at least on the cars I've seen
<gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: nope, it's got left-right too
<MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: ooh shiny
<gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: it's a nice bit of design
<shauno> tmux is actively maintained and has a much smaller memory footprint.  past that, I bear no allegiances
<gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: I may be picking up an old VW T4, and I know I can get LHD headlamps for that quite cheaply
<MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: I'm going to have to ask around on how it works on my Smart
<shauno> amazon sent me an invitiation to a 'trial' of amazon prime, then don't let me sign up for it because I'm not in .co.uk.  fail.
<gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: oh wow, the eurotunnel is like half the price
<gordonjcp> now I just need 500 quid's worth of diesel
<MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: maybe it's cheaper in France?
<shauno> oh, completely random.  I had a job interview today.  they specified linux experience.  the complete extent of the linux-relevant questions, were "what does the kernel do"
<MartijnVdS> fial
<shauno> this made me a sad puppy.  I like it when the interview is a challenge between my experience vs the interviewer's experience.  not high-level dross
<shauno> I really need to figure out when it's acceptable to ask the interviewer to stop pussy-footing around and raise the bar
<smittix> Heh Kevin Mitnick has just emailed me and confirms he uses Ubuntu
<smittix> how awesome is that.
<MartijnVdS> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=mghhLqu31cQ#
<MartijnVdS> ^ for all you people who live on the internets
<shauno> I don't .. dmanit .. I do, don't I
<MartijnVdS> shauno: just click the link
<shauno> I had to turn it off.  It was spoiling my musics.
<mgdm> The guy on the bass looks like Sheldon out of Big Bang Theory
<mgdm> I might be wrong, but I could've sworn that a while back, I could do `apt-get install name-of-a-local-package-file.deb` and it would install the .deb file I pointed it at, but get it to resolve the dependencies using the normal way
<mgdm> Is this something that was ever possible?
<MartijnVdS> no?
<MartijnVdS> dpkg -i + apt-get -f install works for me most of the time
<mgdm> Hmmm. Maybe it's a yum thing :)
<MartijnVdS> and there's gdebi
<popey> yay gdebi
<MartijnVdS> popey: scary man
<shauno> I've never used apt like that.  apt doesn't install packages, it just finds them for dpkg
<mgdm> There is a package manager somewhere that can do that - I suspect it's either yum or perhaps up2date
<MartijnVdS> autopackage
<MartijnVdS> *runs*
<shauno> yum I'm unfamiliar with; I haven't used RH since it came bundled with Unleashed books
<shauno> or the other way around; I haven't touched an rpm-based system since debian 2.2r2
<Oli> Huzzah!
<smittix> I like it how i can do yum install nautilus-* and it will install everything. can you do that with apt?
<Azelphur> smittix: yes
<smittix> same way? apt-get install nautilus-*
<smittix> ?
<Azelphur> yep
<shauno> Note, selecting tortoisehg-nautilus for regex ânautilus-*â
<shauno> etc
<Oli> smittix: I'm not sure I'd recommend blindly installing things - not all packages are awesome.
<AlanBell> team meeting in 10 minutes or so
<daubers> Oooh
<AlanBell> DaveBug: Laney: are you in a pub?
<daubers> That was good timing then
<daubers> Also, evening :)
<AlanBell> okies, everyone got beer/wine/coffee/tea ready for a meeting in #ubuntu-uk-meeting very shortly?
 * bigcalm nips to the loo
<AlanBell> anyone want to go to a happy hour in early December?
<christel> yes
<christel> \o/
<christel> not the 3rd mind, as that's the freenode staff christmas do
<christel> also, sorry, i was scrolled up so i missed the topic change!
<AlanBell> Christmas meal -> http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-uk/1409/detail/
<ubuntubhoy> all alone :-(
<ubuntubhoy> not very festive
<AlanBell> thats me
<ubuntubhoy> remember to take a mirror, just in case you get lonely
<funkyHat> hoho
<AlanBell> won't help, it is in total darkness
<funkyHat> It sounds rather interesting
<ubuntubhoy> thats easy then, take a dinner party recording and join in
<mattt> dans le noir?  odd :/
<daftykins> meals served by blind staff
<daftykins> don't wear anything you like...
<bigcalm> AlanBell: I want to register for the event though I don't know at this point if Hayley can come or not
<bigcalm> Should I put it down as 0 or 1 guest?
<AlanBell> bigcalm: sure, you can change your number of guests so don't worry too much
<bigcalm> daftykins: that's a little mean
<AlanBell> I hope she can come, it will be fun!
<bigcalm> That's what I'm thinking :D
<AlanBell> daftykins: the blind staff won't have a problem, you will though
<bigcalm> There we go
<mattt> heh, it's like irc ... but in person
<mattt> i still think it's odd ;D
<daftykins> AlanBell: :D
<bigcalm> Haha
<daftykins> indeed, i can't get to London!
<daftykins> fail at the first hurdle
<AlanBell> mattt: well normal wouldn't really be "us" would it!
<mattt> AlanBell: freaks!
<AlanBell> yay
<bigcalm> AlanBell: so far it's just you and me. How romantic ;)
<AlanBell> bigcalm: you all look the same in the dark :)
<ubuntubhoy> but do they feel the same ??
<AlanBell> mooooving on
<bigcalm> HAHA
<mattt> :P
<daftykins> most restaurants are practically pitch black already with the fashionable dim lighting ;)
<daftykins> one of our fave local pubs actually cranks the music up and the lights down at a set time of evening :S quite daft it is
<AlanBell> there is quite a lot of difference between low light and no light
<daftykins> well yes but what i'm doing here is called making conversation branching from a topic, rather than being specifically to do with it
<AlanBell> I find your expectation of social skills . . . disturbing
<AlanBell> :)
<daftykins> not sure i follow
<daftykins> i found your comment rude so carried on ^_^
<AlanBell> christmas meal mail sent :)
<AlanBell> no intention to be rude, sorry if I was
<daftykins> that's ok
 * mattt gets his python on
<bigcalm> AlanBell: It's the beginning of November and you've signed off your email with 'Happy Christmas'. I find this strangely disturbing
<AlanBell> tweeted, and G+ed it
<DaveBug> AlanBell: We /were/ in a pub... but I'm at home now
<AlanBell> how did it go?
<mattt> AlanBell: : what's your twitter?
<AlanBell> @alanbell_libsol
<mattt> was really hoping it was @alanbell :/
<AlanBell> sadly I didn't get there in time for that
 * bigcalm engages sleep mode
#ubuntu-uk 2011-11-11
<ali1234> so apparently i signed up to give a talk about mobile linux at nlug
<Azelphur> it's a trap
<ali1234> hmm i leave the computer for 6 hours and steam gets compromised?
<Azelphur> indeed
<ali1234> if i wasn't really drunk i'd probably have something insightful to say about this
<funkyHat> Which nlug?
<AlanBell> morning all
<AlanBell> really need to get rid of that cockerel
<ball> AlanBell: Dust off and nuke it from orbit - it's the only way to be sure.
<ball> So, I wrote a thing about servers for small organisations.  It's dumbed down pretty much because it's aimed at business people and not geeks.
<ball> I mention Linux but not Ubuntu specifically.
<ball> Anyone fancy taking a look?
<AlanBell> yes
<ball> http://protelp.co.uk/technology/servers-for-the-small-organisation/
<ball> Thanks AlanBell
<ball> It's not too late for me to submit bugfixes if you see something that needs improvement.
<AlanBell> looks good
<ball> Thanks AlanBell
<ball> It's CC-licensed, so you're welcome to use it if you like.
<ball> The next one will probably be about networking.
<ball> AlanBell: Any suggested improvements?
<AlanBell> not really, or not without making it more complicated :)
<AlanBell> it was focussed on file serving, which is fine
<AlanBell> there are plenty of other topics, like introducing email (local or cloud) and then on to shared web applications like a CRM system etc
<ball> Looks like it's raining in Chippenham
<ball> AlanBell: I'm going to do one on software too... perhaps "the cloud" warrants one in its own right.
<ball> ...or at least a paragraph
<ball> Thanks for taking a look.  That really helps.
 * ball goes back to testing 72 servers
<tonytiger> AlanBell: did you want me?
<AlanBell> yes :)
<AlanBell> Southampton, pub!
<tonytiger> When?
<AlanBell> so, when would be a good day, early December or alternatively in January to do a happy hour in Southampton?
<tonytiger> It's a Thursday evening, right?
<AlanBell> probably, but doesn't have to be
<AlanBell> a weekday, after work drinks is the idea
<tonytiger> sure
<tonytiger> 15th December maybe?
<AlanBell> great
<AlanBell> and how about a pub
<tonytiger> I thought Mark had suggested one?
<AlanBell> I think mark suggested the Hobbit, not sure if that is a long haired rockers pub
<tonytiger> Hhe
<tonytiger> *heh
<tonytiger> It is a bit
<tonytiger> Bit more atmosphere than the one that popey chose though
<AlanBell> feel free to suggest an alternative (wheelchair accessible is the only criteria)
<tonytiger> Hmm, OK
<tonytiger> I don't really drink so don't know the pubs much.
<AlanBell> http://www.hobbitpub.co.uk/events/ 15th is "Tom Bombadil's Cabaret Open Mic Night"
<tonytiger> heh
<czajkowski> aloha
<popey> Morning
<czajkowski> how are we all  this mornign
 * ball waves
 * AlanBell ponders chickenecide
 * ball hands AlanBell a partially-charged pulse rifle
<AlanBell> it started crowing at 6:15
<czajkowski> AlanBell: oh dear
<AlanBell> it is for the pot
<ball> I'm usually up by then anyway
<AlanBell> I think one last chick flick video of specky then it will be time to say goodbye
<ball> Definitely this month because I'm working nights.
<ball> brb
<AlanBell> TheOpenSourcerer: want a chicken?
<AlanBell> will the kids let you serve it?
<danfish> morning
<danfish> has the apocolypse happenned yet?
<daubers> Morning
<popey> Yes.
<daubers> No?
<TheOpenSourcerer> AlanBell: Hmmm - James was rather against the idea - it has to be said.
<popey> Shoot it in the head.
<AlanBell> popey: want a nice big fat chicken?
<popey> No thank you.
<popey> I think we have a covenant that prevents us having chickens
<popey> and pigs
<AlanBell> might be going in the bin then
<popey> s/and/or/
<AlanBell> popey: not alive
<popey> hah, oh
<AlanBell> nice big fat tasty dead chicken
<popey> "Meat is murder"
<popey> "Tasty tasty murder"
<TheOpenSourcerer> popey: You do eat chicken.
<TheOpenSourcerer> They all start out alive.
<popey> http://www.threadless.com/product/490/Meat_is_murder_Tasty_tasty_murder
<TheOpenSourcerer> My mistake was explaining it to the children FIRST!
<Pendulum> AlanBell: too traumatic for your kids if you try to serve it to them?
<AlanBell> well I am going to kill it in a sec, it can go in the bin, or someone can have a tasty meal
<TheOpenSourcerer> What about a neighbour?
<TheOpenSourcerer> They will appreciate the peace I am sure ;-)
<AlanBell> Pendulum: apparently so
<popey> do you not eat chicken AlanBell ?
<Pendulum> TheOpenSourcerer: +1 especially if it started crowing at 6:15, one might quite like the revenge ;-)
<gordonjcp> seems a shame to waste a perfectly good tasty chicken
<AlanBell> popey: I do, and would eat him quite cheerfully
<AlanBell> gordonjcp: it does
<gordonjcp> AlanBell: wonder what it would cost to overnight a frozen chicken in a polystyrene tub??
<gordonjcp> you could do chicken by post
<AlanBell> more than the cost of a chicken from the butchers I expect
<TheOpenSourcerer> It is a free range chicken.
<TheOpenSourcerer> AlanBell: Helen would like to have him as a pet. I am trying to talk her out of that
<Pendulum> TheOpenSourcerer: mention the crowing at 6:15?
<AlanBell> TheOpenSourcerer: get some hens, they are awesome
<TheOpenSourcerer> My wife is a vegetarian Pendulum
<TheOpenSourcerer> She likes furry things
<Pendulum> TheOpenSourcerer: yes, but I assume she also likes her sleep
<gordonjcp> TheOpenSourcerer: doesn't she eat eggs?
<TheOpenSourcerer> We do get up at 6:15
<mattt> herrrro!
<TheOpenSourcerer> Yes. But Cocks do not lay them. That is AlanBell's dilema
<gordonjcp> I wonder if I should get some hens
<AlanBell> you should!
<AlanBell> everyone should get hens
<gordonjcp> I might well
<gordonjcp> we haven't really got many foxes out here
<gordonjcp> well
<gordonjcp> we *do*, sometimes, briefly
<TheOpenSourcerer> My wife wants to start a facebook page "Save Specky"
<TheOpenSourcerer> AlanBell: When you dispatch Specky could you do me a favour too?
<AlanBell> whats that then?
<popey> video it and upload to fb? :D
<gordonjcp> TheOpenSourcerer: what, do it on a trampoline wearing a pink sparkly hat?
<TheOpenSourcerer> My wife doesn't like the idea
<popey> hah
<popey> are we having a moment of silence at 11am?
<Pendulum> win 33
<gordonjcp> for Nigel Tufnel day?
<Pendulum> fail :(
<AlanBell> specky will be
<popey> hah
<TheOpenSourcerer> lol
<gordonjcp> I'm going to have a minute of turning it up to eleven
<TheOpenSourcerer> Helen says "NO"
<AlanBell> but yes, popey lets mute the channel at 11
<popey> yes
<popey> for 2 mins
<AlanBell> yup
<danfish> +1
<TheOpenSourcerer> AlanBell: Helen was about to drive round and collect your chicken (alive).
<popey> haha
<gordonjcp> they don't make particularly good pets
<AlanBell> haha
<TheOpenSourcerer> I am desperately trying to stop her
 * popey races to get there and kill it first
 * TheOpenSourcerer thinks of the Dick Barton theme tune
 * popey thinks TheOpenSourcerer is older than he looks
<AlanBell> popey: do you want me to pop round with a dead chicken?
<popey> not really, no. Thanks for the very kind offer.
<AlanBell> ok
<danfish> AlanBell: how'd you end up buying a boy chicken?
<AlanBell> I think specky has run out of options
<AlanBell> danfish: they all look the same when they are little
<TheOpenSourcerer> AlanBell: Hold on.
<TheOpenSourcerer> My wife is phoning a friend...
<danfish> you could feed specky birth control pills - he may 'turn' ;)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Who may be able to hold specky for a couple of days.
<TheOpenSourcerer> until she has found a pen to hold Specky.
<AlanBell> what??
<AlanBell> you don't want a cock, really!
<TheOpenSourcerer> I know that!
<danfish> TheOpenSourcerer: give her the number for KFC
<gordonjcp> AlanBell: can you not just kill specky and pop him in the freezer until the children have forgotten the whole affair, *then* cook him?
<AlanBell> you need about 12 hens to go with one
<TheOpenSourcerer> Helen is a vege caring person who doesn't like the idea of dead animals.
<popey> there are many dead animals on the planet
<popey> why focus on that one
<TheOpenSourcerer> She is talking to Nigel... OMG!
<Pendulum> popey: she knows that one
<popey> Veggies make no sense
<AlanBell> TheOpenSourcerer: really, get hens
<TheOpenSourcerer> Pendulum: Actually she doesn't. She knows the owner and knows it is alive.
<Pendulum> hah
<AlanBell> it will be humanely dispatched and chucked in the bin
<TheOpenSourcerer> AlanBell: Apparently the RSPCA will re-home it!
<AlanBell> whut?
<gordonjcp> o_O
<TheOpenSourcerer> That's what Helen said
<TheOpenSourcerer> She has offered to transport it next week.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Women! She has just said "I wish you hadn't told me" Does ANYONE understand women?
<popey> So someone at the RSPCA is going to be having chicken sandwiches for lunch next week.
<gordonjcp> pretty much
<gordonjcp> "yeah I'll rehome it" <gets pot, picks some fresh sage and chops an onion>
<popey> I like what joey has done with the OMG logo today http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/
<Pendulum> TheOpenSourcerer: I'm a woman and I would eat it. (Might as well learn how to pluck a chicken sometime)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Ahh. Clarissa Dickinson-Wright wouldn't have this problem.
<TheOpenSourcerer> My wife is now speaking to AlanBell
<popey> hahah
<Pendulum> Operation Cock Rescue 2011 has now commenced then?
<popey> O_O
<daubers> :-O
<Pendulum> sorry, have been reading up on a guy who testified in the US about war crimes in Iraq so phrases starting with Operation and ending with supposed rescue are on my brain
<AlanBell> execution postponed
<TheOpenSourcerer> Specky has been given a stay
<gordonjcp> Dave2: your double entendre skills are required
<gord> note to self, don't mention when i am killing animals in #u-uk - its more effort than its worth
<AlanBell> still on death row
<popey> http://www.pocketgamer.co.uk/r/Multiformat/Beebdroid/news.asp?c=35052
<popey> sweet
<gordonjcp> Pendulum: Operation Enduring Cock
<Pendulum> tbh, I'd been trying to make it sound less dodgy, but it's ridiculously early here and brain is not functioning
<Lantizia> popey, neat... ARM emulation on an ARM device :P
<popey> I bet specky is cock-a-hoop
<TheOpenSourcerer> Groan
<popey> hah, hadn't thougt of it like that
<JamesTait> Morning all!
<nigelb> TheOpenSourcerer: Having a /hilight for Nigel seemed to have been a bad thing for today ;)
<TheOpenSourcerer> That is finished now nigelb
<TheOpenSourcerer> Helen is now trying to contact the RSPCA
<nigelb> Heh
<TheOpenSourcerer> Although AlanBell is not being cruel from what I can tell.
<nigelb> SPCC?
<AlanBell> https://plus.google.com/u/0/109175303602657131317/posts/XkJYWPMx2EB if anyone wants one last look at Specky the Cock
<czajkowski> sweet jebus the read back in this makes for some laughs
<daubers> czajkowski: Because the manic cock killer of Farnborough is at large again?
<TheOpenSourcerer>  czajkowski It would have all been fine if my dear wife hadn't wandered in my office at the right moment.
<danfish> horrible story locally about a chicken who had an accident outside the local curry house
<gordonjcp> or wrong moment, for that matter
<danfish> the vets tried to save him but unfortunately he slipped into a korma and never woke up
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<AlanBell> czajkowski: how do you feel about plucking?
<brobostigon> slipped into a korma, ?
<brobostigon> humorous mispelling.
<danfish> brobostigon: indeed
<brobostigon> :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> danfish: Please don't give up your day-job for a life as a comedian. I think it won't work out for you.
<danfish> TheOpenSourcerer: heh - I came to that conclusion years ago
<daubers> danfish: However, you may be able to reduce your shopping bills as long as you like tomatoes....
* popey changed the topic of #ubuntu-uk to: Welcome to #ubuntu-uk! http://ubuntu-uk.org | This channel is publicly archived http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Mailing List http://tinyurl.com/uukml | Support Guidelines http://tinyurl.com/uuksupport | Meeting 10th November 21:00 UK time #ubuntu-uk-meeting | 2 mins silence at 11AM
<danfish> daubers: toms are the last thing I need - it was a particularly fine harvest of toms this year and I've run out of sauce storage space
<popey> mmm sauce
<bigcalm> Good morning pees :)
<bigcalm> That's the 1st time I've bothered to read the scroll back
<daubers> danfish: heh, I'm living off parsnips at the moment
<bigcalm> Well worth it :)
<danfish> maybe specky, some of my sauce and some of TheOpenSourcerer's chilis should get together some time
<TheOpenSourcerer> :-D
<bigcalm> Nice vid too
<Oli> I wish somebody would call me up to try and sell me fake antivirus software: http://news.bbc.co.uk/today/hi/today/newsid_9637000/9637033.stm
<ball> Someone phoned me up yesterday and tried to sell me a fake university... does that count?
<ball> It's starting to get light in Newfoundland
<ball> btw, what's an "eft"?
<danfish> someone tried to sell me Italy over the phone the other day. Offered to chuck in Greece for free if I pay'd cash
<ball> In Euros? ;-)
<Oli> ball: As in, "would you like to buy a university?" or a course at a fake university?
<ball> A degree programme at a fake uni.
<daubers> ball: Email them back and say you'd rather buy the University
<ball> daubers: I'm not giving them my email address ;-)
<daubers> ball: Send it using popeys email address, he won't mind!
<Oli> And then there are always things like http://www.guerrillamail.com
<ball> Oli: ...or I could just telnet into an SMTP server ;-)
<daubers> or set up a second mail address of dearscammers@domain.com
<ball> I hope this coffee works
<ball> It's 04:32 and I'm here until 07:00
<ball> ...then I have to drive home.
<Oli> :(
 * daubers orders rfid kit
<Oli> What are you building, daubers?
<daubers> Sign in/out system for the local hackspace
<Myrtti> meh
<Myrtti> no proper tea at my sisters :-(
<ball> I wish we had a hackspace
<Oli> That sounds like a useful application of it. I keep considering sticking RFID gates on all our doorways so I can log the progress of my car key* around the house so when I inevitably lose it, finding it doesn't require any thought. *I'll start with the car key and move onto better-half, cats, visitors, etc...
<Myrtti> I still like the skype phone idea
<Oli> hm?
<gordonjcp> Oli: or do what I do, end up leaving the keys in the car all day
<gordonjcp> (this only works if you live up a quiet farm track)
<Myrtti> Oli: for RFID tags http://huopio.fi/simo/blog/2009/03/rfid-calling-cards-for-osx-and-skype.html
<Oli> gordonjcp: Hmm yes, that's a point. Perhaps I just need a triangulation masts around the house. Seems like it would be a bit more expensive to make things identifiable though.
<danfish> diferrent tech, but the excellent prey software has helped me locate my phone a few times
<ball> daubers: did you ever see the Cambridge/ORL "Active Badge" videos?
<gordonjcp> any VoIP people here?
<gordonjcp> if I have an FXS which breaks out to a pair of RJ11 sockets, do I need a ringing capacitor for a UK phone?
<ball> gordonjcp: That'd be build in I should think.
<ball> (to the FXS)
<ball> gordonjcp: What software are you using it with, out of interest?
<Twinkletoes> For any BIND users... is it OK for several zones/domains to share the same zone file (obviously using @ in the SOA record)?  I have several domains (basically mis-spellings of my real domains) that I want to serve up in DNS with exactly the same data as the correctly-spelled names
<bigcalm> Time?
<TheOpenSourcerer> shh
<popey> two minutes silence
* popey changed the topic of #ubuntu-uk to: Welcome to #ubuntu-uk! http://ubuntu-uk.org | This channel is publicly archived http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Mailing List http://tinyurl.com/uukml | Support Guidelines http://tinyurl.com/uuksupport | Meeting 10th November 21:00 UK time #ubuntu-uk-meeting |
<bigcalm> Thank you everybody
<TheOpenSourcerer> Even twitter shut up pretty much.
<davmor2> morning all
<davmor2> czajkowski: prod
<heeed> people in office talking through 2min silence...shocking
<dogmatic69> o/
<dutchie> do we still need the meeting announce for last night in the topic?
<danfish> only 8 mins til it all kicks off 11-11-11-11-11-11
<mattt> heh
<mattt> the whole office goes quiet
<dogmatic69> we doing it at 11:11:11
<mattt> one bulgarian goes: "wtf is this?"
 * mattt shakes head
<popey> dogmatic69: no, silence is on the hour
<dogmatic69> :/
<popey> you can do it whenever you like tho âº
<danfish> that was nice - the builders on the big project next door who are driving me potty due to noise stopped working to the 2 mins
<bigcalm> It's to remind people of the horrors of war. Please remember all the time, not just at 11am on 11th November each year
<danfish> s/to/for
<ball> It's my niece's birthday
<davmor2> bigcalm: but I enjoy being at war with czajkowski if only all war could be settled our way ;)
<ball> I see the BBC Web site is wearing black.
<davmor2> on a serious note I arrived at 2 minutes past due to not want the chimes to get in the way of the silence
<popey> we muted for 2 mins
<gordonjcp> ball: I'm not, yet, but I'll be using Asterisk
<popey> Fri Nov 11 11:11:12 UTC 2011
<popey> naj!
<popey> bah even
<popey> so close
<danfish> the end-of-the-worlders were wrong again :/
<bigcalm> Do you feel sorry for them?
<bigcalm> Maybe the world has ended in their reality
<danfish> bigcalm: maybe it has ended - I was rather hoping the afterlife would be a bit better than a  damp Surbiton
<bigcalm> Autumn rocks
<directhex> is u1 down? i got a 504 error from the music store, and it's being really buggy now
<popey> directhex: I'd ask in #ubuntuone
<popey> directhex: I just connected to the store in banshee on 11.10 and it worked fine
<gordonjcp> it's just plain *wrong* that I get a better internet connection by VPNing to my house, *through* the VPN from this office to the one in Thamesmead
<gordonjcp> than I do just connecting to the local network here, which goes through our work VPN
<gordonjcp> ~.
<gordonjcp> oops
 * gordonjcp finds network shares particularly baffling in Ubuntu
<MartijnVdS> sharing or accessing shared content from other machine
<MartijnVdS> s
<gordonjcp> accessing shared content from another machine
<gordonjcp> I can get it to connect to the server but I can't figure out where it's mounted
<tonytiger> If it's a share you're accesing from within Gnome/Unity it won't be mounted anywhere useful
<gordonjcp> oh
<gordonjcp> well that's pointless then
<popey> ~/.gvfs or something isnt it?
<gordonjcp> why doesn't it let you mount it somewhere sensible?
<gordonjcp> oh, wait
<gordonjcp> it doesn't actually have samba
<gordonjcp> sod it, sshfs
<gordonjcp> popey: yeah, it puts it in .gvfs
<gordonjcp> so what then, symlink it to be useful?
<gordonjcp> also, is the share supposed to show up along with the other mounts in the Mac Dock thing?
<popey> dunno, i never use windows shares
<daubers> gordonjcp: They used to, but I think they took them out again
<diplo> gordonjcp, I always open Nautilus
<gordonjcp> diplo: right, but nautilus doesn't work
<gordonjcp> for whatever insane reason it's browsing windows shares on the local network here rather than over the VPN
<gordonjcp> and it doesn't mount the share anywhere sensible
<daubers> gordonjcp: hit ctrl+l then give it the uri (e.g. smb://someserver/someshare)
<Twinkletoes> I'm using setfacl with the --test option.  The output format is like this:   u::,g::,m::,o::   If u,g,o are standard user/group/other, what is 'm' for?
<Twinkletoes> Sorry, I've just found it.. . mask
<Laney> https://blip.tv/ubuntu-developers/ubuntu-uds-p-orlando-interviews-stefano-zacchiroli-debian-project-leader-5726122
<Laney> "Debian Project Manager, Canonical"
<Laney> ho ho ho
<AlanBell> fail
<selinuxium> Erm...
<diplo> Recent update, screwed my mouse clicking... any thoughts where to start looking ?
<diplo> And it seems keyboard
<diplo> Alt F2 works, but can't type
<selinuxium> Just checked one of my old jaunty servers and the sources.list no longer connects to anything...
<selinuxium> Is it no longer available for Jaunty?
<deej1976> !release
<lubotu3`> Ubuntu releases a new version every 6 months. Each version is supported for 18 months to 5 years. More info at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Releases & http://wiki.ubuntu.com/TimeBasedReleases
<selinuxium> are there any mirrors? How could I upgrade without going to a disk?
<shauno> selinuxium: jaunty & karmic are on old-releases.ubuntu.com - if you can upgrade to 9.10 from there, the next step would be into the 10.04 lts
<selinuxium> shauno, Cheers!
<selinuxium> deej1976, Thanks for your help too.
<shauno> I've never actually tried that, so I'm not sure how to get do-release-upgrade to use that mirror
<selinuxium> shauno, I just need to get to a historic repo source atm... Need a quick dirty fix for something...
<selinuxium> shauno, any idea what a line in the sources list should read like?
<selinuxium> Shauno, I think I have worked it out..
<shauno> I think just: deb http://old-releases.ubuntu.com/ubuntu jaunty main
<shauno> it's using the same layout as the regular release servers, so the only difference should be the addition of old-
<AlanBell> last second reprieve for the chicken!!
<AlanBell> just called the tip to ask if I can dump a chicken carcass, explained the issue and they said bring it alive!
<popey> hah
<daubers> heh
<bigcalm> \o/
<danfish> this chicken will have it's own twitter and facebook accounts soon!
<TheOpenSourcerer> Someone at the tip is thinking tasty supper :-)
<TheOpenSourcerer> s\ \fresh
 * bigcalm wonders why so few have signed up to this: http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-uk/1409/detail/
<DJones> Would a chicken carcase not go into the recycling waste bin
<deej1976> Will they be serving chicken?
<hamitron> sounds dangerous
<hamitron> :S
<DJones> Would it matter what they're serving, it'll be in the dark, they could serve anything and say its something else :)
<hamitron> just no hot gravy
<hamitron> :/
<gordonjcp> daubers: right, but that doesn't mount it anywhere sensible
<AlanBell> Specky has gone to a better place \o/
<DJones> I'm not sure your stomach is a better place from Specky's point of view
<AlanBell> nom
<AlanBell> anyhow, Specky was alive last time I saw him, and the guys at the tip asked me to bring him down alive
<AlanBell> snowdrop and chocolate were looking a bit frowny when I got home
<DJones> Why did you have to get rid of him
<AlanBell> noisy
<DJones> Isn't that what he's there to do? Male chickens don't do much else
<AlanBell> yup, he wasn't supposed to be male
<brobostigon> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-15690898
<DJones> I've had pretty much the same type of conversation, I even booted up the only windows machine in the house at his insistence to go through the commands and at the end, he said yes he could see the problem and could see the error message, then I asked how he could see them because the computer wasn't connected to the internet (which it wasn't and hadn't been for about 6 months)
<brobostigon> i am hoping the bbc broadcast that story more widely, as more people need to be informed.
<brobostigon> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-15690898?postId=110845209#comment_110845209 :)
<deej1976> I always say "Perfect my computer doesn't boot I'm stuck at a LI___ prompt"
<popey> do they ask for your credit card number over the phone or get you to go to a website and pay?
<brobostigon> no ides.
<brobostigon> idea*
<AlanBell> Laney: video has been pulled whilst they fix the titles
<DJones> The call I had wanted a credit card details before tehy could fix it
<DJones> Anybody got $25K to buy a motorbike? http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230697392979+&viewitem=
<buzz_> http://www.digitaltoast.co.uk/supportonclick-systemrecure-scam
<mrevell> hi danhg
<danhg> hi
<Laney> AlanBell: good work
<Laney> it should be Leader not Manager
<Laney> or whatever it said
<AlanBell> I am sure it will be fixed properly
<Laney> sure, just letting you know what it shoudl be
<dogmatic69> i had a screenshot app, something like shutter or shotwell and it was crap so i apt-get removed it... now i cant make screen shots :/
<dogmatic69> how do i get the original one back on?
<dogmatic69> it was shutter
<davmor2> dogmatic69: open software-center and type in screenshot and pick one the default is take a screenshot which is the gnome tool
<davmor2> dogmatic69: it maybe that you just need to change the default app though
<dogmatic69> ye i think so, its like the key bindings are wrong now
<dogmatic69> just done one the manual way and it worked
<dogmatic69> apps -> accessories -> screen shot
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Andy Loughran] Amstrad Emailer - http://zrmt.com/2011/11/11/amstrad-emailer/
<gordonjcp> oh, I remember those
<Oli> I'm slightly appalled they weren't discontinued until this year
<issyl0> czajkowski: Is Ubuntu doing anything for Google Code-In?
<AlanBell> what is that issyl0?
<issyl0> AlanBell: http://code.google.com/opensource/gci/2010-11/
<issyl0> OK, it appears not: http://google-opensource.blogspot.com/2011/11/google-code-in-2011-participating.html
<issyl0> (Don't worry, czajkowski :-))
<DJones> Don't now if this is of any interest to anybody http://www.videoblocks.com/  the first subscription-based resource for downloading royalty-free stock footage, motion backgrounds, production music, sound effects They're offering 7 days of free downloads
<zleap> atatra
<MartijnVdS> \o
<zleap> ricktimms is on radio 2 ]
<MartijnVdS> who?
<MartijnVdS> </ignorant foreigner>
<zleap> does something with oss,  works for thelearning machine or something
<zleap> timmis
<zleap> http://www.th-eu-nit.com/index.php/contact-us/rick-timmis
<RhysMorgan> Evening all
<MartijnVdS> \o
<RhysMorgan> I have a ubuntu server running on a machine under my stairs. I used to run a load of services on it i.e. web sites and mail etc however i've moved house and now only have ~6mbs so it is painfully slow
<mattt> ohai!
<RhysMorgan> I want to migrate the server to a data centre
<MartijnVdS> RhysMorgan: inside the house or to the interwebs
<RhysMorgan> interwebs
<MartijnVdS> good, having 6 mbit inside your house would be bad :)
<mattt> RhysMorgan: what's your question?
<RhysMorgan> I have a KVM hypervisor in Interxion I want to put the machine on, what is the best way to "lift & shift"
<RhysMorgan> tar it up and plonk it on?
<mattt> that should work?
<RhysMorgan> How does the grub/disk uuid stuff work?
<RhysMorgan> is it just a case of editing stab?
<mattt> RhysMorgan: not sure, any time i've done that sort of thing i've just hard-coded the device (ie. sda1 or whatever)
<RhysMorgan> s/stab/fstab
<mattt> yeah, and menu.lst i guess
<MartijnVdS> RhysMorgan: I'd go for a clean install
<MartijnVdS> RhysMorgan: and copy files as needed
<mattt> MartijnVdS: i wouldn't, this is more fun
<MartijnVdS> RhysMorgan: maybe put a dump of the filesystem somewhere on there so copying files to the right place isn't a hassle
<mattt> installing is boring :/
<MartijnVdS> (i.e. won't take ages)
<RhysMorgan> MartijnVdS: That involves migrating a shedload of cron jobs python scripts/web service mysql db and apache/passenger confs and vhosts
<MartijnVdS> it involves that anyway :)
<mattt> MartijnVdS: so like, the good thing is ... if you're taking a tar, the worst case scenario is that it doesn't boot on the remote end
<MartijnVdS> but copying the fs to a vm and hoping it will boot is ScaryÂ®
<mattt> MartijnVdS: it's not scurry
<RhysMorgan> so the way i wa looking wasâ¦.
<MartijnVdS> mattt: Having spent several _days_ in a dc trying to get a server with important data to boot after something like this
<mattt> RhysMorgan: i did this before, i took a VM running at linode and put it on my own xen dom0
<MartijnVdS> mattt: it IS scary
<RhysMorgan> fresh install, the untag and before reboot edit fstab and grub menu
<mattt> worked fine
<RhysMorgan> untar*
<MartijnVdS> mattt: (that wasn't a vm though)
<mattt> MartijnVdS: yeah, there may be issues, i'm not denying that
<mattt> but it could be straight-forward
<RhysMorgan> ooooh that may be a good ideaâ¦. i could boot the physical drive using vmware then snap it and convert the vmdk to qcow2
<mattt> MartijnVdS: btw, i'm really lazy
<mattt> so i usually choose what is hopefully the quickest solution :P
<RhysMorgan> MartijnVdS: the main problem with a fresh install is my memory of things which may not be in the foreground but are used occasionally
<mattt> MartijnVdS: out of curiosity, what was preventing you from booting?
<MartijnVdS> mattt: the IDE controller, it turned out
<MartijnVdS> mattt: and its interaction with grub
<MartijnVdS> (this was '05ish)
<RhysMorgan> but anything like that is mitigated by doing a fresh install and untar-ing over right?
<mattt> RhysMorgan: i don't like that idea
<mattt> that sounds like the messiest of all options
<RhysMorgan> how so?
<MartijnVdS> that would leave files from the fresh install not present in your current fs
<mattt> because you'd need to ensure your packages match exactly before doing that
<RhysMorgan> I see
<mattt> now i've seen bad things doing stuff like that :D
<RhysMorgan> ok so create an image with no OS installed then un-tar?
<RhysMorgan> i.e. live boot
<mattt> RhysMorgan: personally, it'd try it ... failing that, do what MartijnVdS suggests -- a clean install, and move your data over
 * AlanBell reads back
<mattt> RhysMorgan: make sure you stop all your services before you tar up the live system tho
<MartijnVdS> make the .tar using the live cd
<MartijnVdS> that's best
<mattt> yeah, even better
<MartijnVdS> that way /sys and /proc won't be in the way either
<RhysMorgan> that's what I had planned
<AlanBell> yeah, sounds like a good opportunity to learn more about grub and the boot process and file permissions :)
<MartijnVdS> also, fstab and the filesystem uuid
<AlanBell> that too
<MartijnVdS> while untarring, write it down somewhere ;)
<AlanBell> what partitions are there?
<RhysMorgan> . /home & /
<RhysMorgan> wow, doing a clean upâ¦ I have a ton of cr*p on this server
 * AlanBell deletes 64GB of log files a customer was backing up every night
<mattt> yikes :/
<RhysMorgan> I had a customer a few months back who were storing vmdk and ISO images in their offsite backup area totalling 653GB
<RhysMorgan> very shortly after that they took my advice to introduce quotas on their users personal shares
<ixxvil> hi
<ixxvil> is bash the standard shell for ubunutu
<ixxvil> ?
<AlanBell> yes ixxvil
<ixxvil> oh k
<AlanBell> except for certain scenarios where it uses dash
<ixxvil> dash?
<jacobw> debian alchemist shell
<jacobw> !dash
<lubotu3`> /bin/sh links to the DASH shell in all releases since Ubuntu Edgy (6.10). Since DASH is not 100% compatible with the BASH shell, some scripts might break. You can make scripts execute using BASH by changing the first line of the script to Â« #! /bin/bash
<AlanBell> /bin/sh is a symlink to dash which is a shell which is more posix correct than bash
<ixxvil> wow
<ixxvil> didnt know
<ixxvil> thanks
#ubuntu-uk 2011-11-12
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] QA Community Coordinator Required: Apply Within - http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/11/12/qa-community-coordinator-required-apply-within/
<LinuxMobile> Morning :-)
<LinuxMobile> Exciting channel this lol
<ball> Hello LinuxMobile
<LinuxMobile> Hey baw
<ball> LinuxMobile: It's about 02:44 in the UK.
<ball> LinuxMobile: I imagine people are sleeping.
<LinuxMobile> Im aware of that. Why tell me
<LinuxMobile> I imagine then drunk and cycle ball. I guess we cant know
<LinuxMobile> But we are active
<LinuxMobile> You. Ball :-)
<LinuxMobile> Just had bacon roll. Nom
 * ball is confused
<LinuxMobile> Ball, you mentioned me, thought you would like to chat?
<LinuxMobile> Confused about bacon? Lol
<ball> I was confused by the "drunk and cycle"
<ball> no idea what that's all about.
<LinuxMobile> Im mobile. Excuse me.
<LinuxMobile> Drunk and awake :-)
<ball> Well ride carefully then, I don't want you falling in a ditch.
<LinuxMobile> I thought IRC was for chat?
<ball> IRC is for community.
<ball> ...and the occasional fight, depending on the channel in question.
<LinuxMobile> Oh. I dont want to fight?
<LinuxMobile> Just pass time with like mind
<ball> LinuxMobile: This isn't one of the fighty channels.
<ball> I have to go
<LinuxMobile> I found active. Thanks
<AlanBell> LinuxMobile: hi
<AlanBell> morning all
<popey> Morning
<AlanBell> what exciting saturdayish things are you all up to today then?
<AlanBell> and who wants to do the December Happy Hour?
<AlanBell> where "do" consists of picking a date and a pub and turning up
<gordonjcp> AlanBell: well I'm getting confused by apache's apparent inability to follow LANG settings
<gordonjcp> having some really good coffee
<gordonjcp> and planning on cycling over to the shops in a few minutes
<kirrus> AlanBell: Looking at the support queue and trying to put off getting to work a few more minutes
<gordonjcp> anyone here good at apache and locales?
<popey> Open day at the kids school
<gordonjcp> http://www.gjcp.net/smash/ <- I wrote this but it occasionally falls on its backside because it tries to format the currency with the locale set to "C"
<gordonjcp> I suspect a race condition somewhere in apache or mod_python
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<sagaci> morning, brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning sagaci
<kirrus> morning :)
<AlphaChallenor> Moring
<czajkowski> aloha
<czajkowski> AlanBell: sort out your chicken issue
<jacobw> morning
<Laney> today is the day of my first foray into home brewing
<brobostigon> yummy Laney, good luck, :)
<AlanBell> czajkowski: yes
<czajkowski> AlanBell: coolio as I know  someone who was going to help
<AlanBell> czajkowski: last I saw, he was alive and in a box
<czajkowski> cool
<florent_> Hello
<danfish> AlanBell: December Happy Hour me want do
<danfish> Laney: what 'degree' of brewing? Kit/full mash/malt extract?
<shauno> it has to be beer?  I prefer to brew mead.  easy & nommy
<danfish> shauno: personally, I prefer to brew cider. Best batch I made I left brewing in a shed for 6 months. Froze solid twice, but just made it better :)
<shauno> I can't touch cider.  makes my stomach turn.  but I do believe it's more associative memory, than the drink itself
<danfish> did have a batch that went sour, but made apple brandy from it with a B&Q paint stripper steamer
<danfish> my vision returned after a week or so of drinking that brandy ;)
<shauno> wine doesn't seem to sit well with me either, so a dry mead is the closest I can get without rocking the boat
<danfish> shauno: never tried mead. Maybe one for xmas
<danfish> shauno: got a recipe/link?
<jacobw> http://thekittencovers.tumblr.com/
<shauno> danfish, http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f80/joes-ancient-orange-mead-49106/ is about the most bullet-proof starter I've found.  after that, I just experiment
<danfish> shauno: tx
<shauno> the only way I've ever found to go really wrong, is to use frozen fruit from supermarkets :(
<shauno> I ended up breeding some very interesting purple fluff that way
<danfish> heh - frozen oranges?
<shauno> I was trying blackberries.  from a farmer's market, it works really well
<shauno> but if you freeze them and add them frozen, it destroys all the cell walls so they juice nicely
<shauno> trying to cheat and let tesco freeze them for me .. well it still worked.  just the large clumps of floating fluff didn't help the presentation
<danfish> quite.
<danfish> we have a number of damson trees in the garden - trying damson wine for the first time
<shauno> I think it was daubers that was beekeeping this summer?  if you really wanted to overachieve, that'd be fun ;)
<danfish> I think he went on the River Cottage course. Fish family hols booked for that part of the world :)
<daubers> danfish: Who's on a river cottage course?
 * daubers did their beekeeping course
<Pendulum> daubers: someone asked about you and beekeeping
<daubers> ooooh
<danfish> daubers: that's what I thought.
<daubers> The beekeeping thing was aces
 * MartijnVdS feels dirty
<daubers> http://www.flickr.com/photos/mattdaubney/5796344889/in/photostream
<MartijnVdS> the first Stackoverflow question I've ever anwered is a Mysql question
<daubers> ^ beekeeping \o/
<MartijnVdS> daubers: is that like cat-herding?
 * danfish is hoping to relocate to west dorzet/east devon next year
<danfish> MartijnVdS: it could be worse ..... COBOL
<mattt> herro
<bigcalm> Afternoon peeps
<mattt> howzit bigcalm?
<bigcalm> Little tired, little cold, little bored
<bigcalm> Laptop on the sofa
<penguin42> bigcalm: Turn the heating up, put the tv on, fall asleep - fixes it all
<bigcalm> Heating is on, enjoying the quiet without the telly though
<bigcalm> I do like how peaceful our area is
<bigcalm> Sod it. Going to install xubuntu-desktop on the laptop
<brobostigon> only thing missing is a beer.
<bigcalm> Might I recommend Innis & Gunn?
<brobostigon> i am have not heard of.
<brobostigon> i have not heard off.
<brobostigon> of*
<bigcalm> Heh
<bigcalm> Try the Rum Cask one, it's yumy
<bigcalm> yummy
<brobostigon> ah, ok.
 * mattt is watching heineken cup
<popey> Evening all.
<MartijnVdS> \o popey
<Lcawte> Evening
<MartijnVdS> \o
<DJones> popey: What was that alternative to gwibber you mentioned the other day
<popey> polly
<DJones> Thanks
<popey> https://launchpad.net/polly
<popey> its _brilliant_
<popey> i have had it running for days on my desktop, its quick, lean and does the job
<DJones> gwibber seems to have died on me, will give it a try
<MartijnVdS> does it speak g+?
<mattt> can't log into msn w/ bitlbee any more :(
<MartijnVdS> they changed their protocol again?
<mattt> appears to be
<brobostigon> empathy seems to work.
<brobostigon> conencting to msn.
<AlanBell> popey: there is a bleeding edge version using the streaming API too
<AlanBell> generally polly is what I would have made circleoffriends into if I hadn't run out of time and ability :)
<bigcalm> Do we trust Steam any more?
<AlanBell> circleoffriends will turn into a dedicated twitter wall client if I get back to it
<DJones> polly certainly is fast
<Azelphur> Does anyone know of a tool to "merge" two filesystems. For example I have 2 hard drives full of movies, I don't want to have to look through each one individually.
<AlanBell> rsync probably Azelphur
<Azelphur> rsync works great if you can actually fit all the data onto one drive
<Azelphur> I just want to browse it as if it was one drive, rather than it actually be one drive
<gordonjcp> some hoopy aufs magic?
<gordonjcp> some kind of media server?
<gordonjcp> grr, bloody useless firefox
<gordonjcp> what's the best way to replace ubuntu firefox with a not-fiddled-with version?
<penguin42> gordonjcp: You could start by removing xul-ext-ubufox and see if that's enough for you
<gordonjcp> penguin42: really whatever has been done that stops it saving settings
<Azelphur> *shrug* media server works
<gordonjcp> Azelphur: minidlna then?
<penguin42> gordonjcp: Hmm I think it saves them for me
<Azelphur> oO, dlna would be fun then I could watch things on my phone
<gordonjcp> penguin42: can you check if it saves middlemouse.contentLoadURL ?
<gordonjcp> because on mine it keeps forgetting that
<penguin42> gordonjcp: What is that?
<gordonjcp> the thing that lets you middle-click to go to the last selected url
<gordonjcp> ie. select a url from some text, middle-click in a browser window to load in the current tab
<penguin42> gordonjcp: Hmm never knew about tht
<penguin42> a
<gordonjcp> it's what I use about 75% of the time I load a URL that's www.google.co.uk
<gordonjcp> that's *not
<penguin42> gordonjcp: Hmm curious, no it doesn't
<AlanBell> smoke alarm has gone off, dinner must be ready
<MartijnVdS> Roast chicken?
<gordonjcp> penguin42: disabling the Ubuntu extensions *does* fix it
<penguin42> gordonjcp: I suggest filing a bug against it then
<gordonjcp> there are many bugs filed against it
<gordonjcp> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/firefox/+bug/794716
<lubotu3`> Ubuntu bug 794716 in firefox (Ubuntu) "middlemouse.contentLoadURL resets to false" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<penguin42> gordonjcp: You say there are many, it would be best to get them all duped into one
<gordonjcp> well that one I just posted a link to describes the *real* problem
<gordonjcp> the ubuntu-mods.js file deliberately resets it back to false on every load
<gordonjcp> which I guess is in keeping with Ubuntu's closed and dictatorial Apple-like nature
<penguin42> gordonjcp: Chris Coulson's comment (#6) seems to suggest it's a bug in the way ff copes with extensions that change default behaviours - and I think he normally knows whats going on
<gordonjcp> penguin42: no, because by commenting out that line and re-enabling the extension I can leave it set any way I want
<penguin42> gordonjcp: I don't know enough about the innards of ff to know
<ali1234> yes, because that is only supposed to change the default value of the setting
<shauno> I didn't realise linux doesn't do union mounts (natively).  funky
<ali1234> here is the upstrem mozilla bug: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=467766
<lubotu3`> Mozilla bug 467766 in Preferences: Backend "user settings for pref keys with defaults in extension get reset on upgrade" [Normal,Assigned: ]
<AlanBell> why would we turn off a useful feature?
<AlanBell> the bug is that it keeps turning off, I get that, but why are we defaulting to off?
<AlanBell> danfish: happy hour!
<AlanBell> so where were you thinking?
<popey> AlanBell: yeah, thats the version of polly I am using
 * AlanBell will upgrade to that shortly
<AlanBell> danfish: surbiton area?
<danfish> AlanBell: happy to arrange
<AlanBell> great
<AlanBell> early december on a day you can make it, at a wheelchair accessible pub
<danfish> I will research next week :)
<danfish> Surbiton is a weirdly well connected place
<AlanBell> yup
<AlanBell> and I don't mind the tour returning to London at it isn't central London
<AlanBell> danfish: can you pick a date?
<AlanBell> I can announce surbiton and the date now, and firm up the pub later
<danfish> AlanBell: sure - give me 24hrs - 'she that must be obeyed' is out tonight, but I'll buzz you tomorrow
<AlanBell> great
<czajkowski> danfish: http://www.irishtimes.com/sports/rugby/2011/1112/1224307500358.html
 * bigcalm needs help
<czajkowski> danfish: so when are we going to orgnanise going to a rugby game eh ?
<DJones> bigcalm: This is one I use (Assuming your help relates to your twitter question) http://www.pensense.co.uk/shop/sheaffer-green-ink-2.html
<bigcalm> DJones: ta
<DJones> Its a while since I bought any though, the bottle has changed so the ink could have changed
<DJones> The one I;ve got is an Emerald green
<bigcalm> I have a Sheaffer purple, will be a year + before it's drained
<bigcalm> Who made your pen?
<DJones> I've got a mixture, Parker, Shaeffer & Cross
<bigcalm> Oh, ok :)
<bigcalm> I have a Cross pen
<bigcalm> Looking for a new one to go with a green ink
<DJones> I've had my cross one for about 25 years
<mattt> czajkowski: epic munster game today!
<DJones> bigcalm: Probably similar to this one http://goo.gl/Xlfla
<bigcalm> Very nice
<bigcalm> Bit out of my price range though :)
<DJones> Heh, I bought mine in Singapore sort as a 21st birthday present to myself out of money I'd been left after my grandfather died
<bigcalm> I think I spent about 80 quid on my cross
<DJones> I paid $155 back then, not sure what that would work out now
<mattt> 800 on a pen?  :/
<mattt> oh, 80 ... phew.
<popey> oooo youtube have given me a 'more than 15 min upload' account now
 * popey ponders what to upload
<AlanBell> 1 hour of looped extreme ironing
<popey> hah
<zleap> flash
<DJones> Anybody with an old 1st generation iPod Nano? http://mashable.com/2011/11/12/ipd-nano-recall/ Maybe a chance of getting it replaced with a new one
<LSymonds> DJones: Saw that earlier, shame I don't have one :p
<DJones> Might be nice if somebody has an old broken one though, shiny new replacement :)
<LSymonds> Would need to be working though, I guess.
<penguin42> bah, that's a pity, it's the newer one with out the display I've got
#ubuntu-uk 2011-11-13
<danfish> good morning all!
<danfish> czajkowski: good game that. Re a match, I suggest a Quins game in Feb/Early March. The Turks Head is a great pub for before the game.
<danfish> AlanBell: after discussion with the better half, Thursday 8th December looks good for a Surbiton Happy Hour :)
<AlanBell> excellent danfish
<danfish> I will look at public houses tomorrow - it's a chore I'm happy to do in the name of software freedom!
<AlanBell> well done that man, take one for the team
<czajkowski> danfish: sounds like a plan
<AlanBell> http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-uk/1412/detail/
<AlanBell> and http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-uk/1409/detail/
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<asaaki> hello
<asaaki> anyone home?
 * AlanBell is at home
 * brobostigon is also at home.
<brobostigon> o/
<asaaki> i'm trying to run a perl tool but get something like this: sh: /home/nlp/yamcha-0.33: Permission denied
<asaaki> (is "anyone home?" actually a command on XChat?)
<asaaki> howdee
<asaaki> anyone
<asaaki> ?
<LSymonds> Asaaki: Are you using sudo?
<LSymonds> Asaaki: and are you a super user?
<asaaki> no
<asaaki> i tried it as root and tried as a regular user
<asaaki> yes i'm a super user
<brobostigon> superuser is another word for root.
<asaaki> if i work as a regular user and say run the program with sudo, it says: can't locate .pm in @INC
<asaaki> even though i just set the variable using export PERL5LIB
<brobostigon> did you set it only within your normal user? or within root aswell?
<asaaki> both
<asaaki> but i dont need to use "sudo" while working as "root", right?
<AlanBell> what is it trying to do that it doesn't have permission to do?
<AlanBell> is it something that would need root access?
<AlanBell> or is it perhaps looking for a file that should have execute permissions?
<AlanBell> is yamcha something that we should have heard of?
<asaaki> no yamcha is just a tool
<asaaki> and the tool i'm using (AMIRA), it uses yamcha
<asaaki> but i installed yamcha and i think it's working fine. the make install and everything ran ok
<brobostigon> !info yamcha
<asaaki> AMIRA's also running okay... except for this
<lubotu3`> Package yamcha does not exist in natty
<asaaki> http://chasen.org/~taku/software/yamcha/#download
<asaaki> it's an external tool
<asaaki> nothing to do with ubuntu
<asaaki> written in perl i guess
<AlanBell> what does it do?
<asaaki> it uses support vector machines to organize a given text into linguistic chunks
<AlanBell> ah, I see
<asaaki> :)
<AlanBell> there is *no* way that should need root access
<asaaki> so it should work as a regular user..
<AlanBell> yes
<asaaki> i get the same error, either way
<asaaki> what does .sh: /home/nlp/yamcha-0.33: Permission denied even mean? i get that when using another tool that uses this yamcha
<AlanBell> is your username nlp?
<asaaki> i thought AMIRA is trying to use .sh or something... ?
<asaaki> no its not nlp.. thats just the folder where i keep everything
<LSymonds> try sudo sh /home/nlp/yamcha-0.33
<AlanBell> no, it doesn't need root
<asaaki> i just tried sh /home/nlp/yamcha-0.33
<asaaki> um nothing happened.. just came on to the next prompt, no permissino denied
<AlanBell> so you have a folder in /home/nlp that isn't your home folder
<brobostigon> does your current user, have the right permissions to access that folder/directory?
<AlanBell> are you the owner of that folder?
<asaaki> yes i'm the owner of everything this is my personal laptop
<asaaki> i just checked permissions and got this: drwxrwxrwx 13 asaaki asaaki   4096 2011-11-13 09:43 yamcha-0.33
<asaaki> so i (asaaki) have full permissions on the yamcha-0.33 folder, no?
<AlanBell> at that level you do
<AlanBell> what is the command you are running?
<asaaki> i run the AMIRA tool which then runs yamcha...
<AlanBell> where is the data it is supposed to be reading and where is it supposed to be putting the output?
<asaaki>  perl AMIRA.pl config=configs/my.amiraconfig file=firsttest/mada_unbwt_35349_sentences.txt
<brobostigon> and isnt sh meant for executing scripts, not folders? as the previous example command was trying to do? or am i missing something.
<asaaki> okay let me explain how it's working...
<asaaki> i have /home/nlp/AMIRA-2.1 and /home/nlp/yamcha-0.33
<asaaki> and the path for yamcha is mentioned right in the AMIRA tool
<asaaki> so i go into the amira folder and run amira
<asaaki> which is supposed to run yamcha
<asaaki> i mean yamcha is just one of the things it runs... it has its own scripts and stuff
<asaaki> so it works... but somewhere along the way it gives that permission denied thing, and it gives out the final output, but the output is all blank,because yamcha never worked, or was amira was denied permission to use it or something...
<asaaki> i don't know because i'm not sure what sh does
<asaaki> example:
<asaaki> perl bin/AMIRA.pl config=configs/my.amiraconfig file=firsttest/arabic.SGM
<asaaki> Running AMIRA ...
<asaaki> Cleaning and converting input...
<asaaki> Running yamcha for Tokenization
<asaaki> sh: /home/nlp/yamcha-0.33: Permission denied
<asaaki>  Producing formatted Tokenization output
<asaaki> so the final "formatted tokenization output" just ends as a blank file, since AMIRA didn't get to run yamcha
<AlanBell> so in the AMIRA tool it asked for the path to yamacha?
<asaaki> yes, and i provided the path correctly (or so i believe):
<asaaki> YAMCHA_EXEC = /home/nlp/yamcha-0.33
<AlanBell> type "which yamacha"
<AlanBell> yeah, that bit is wrong!
<asaaki> oh!
<AlanBell> it is installed now, /home/nlp/yamacha-0.33 is just the place you built it
<AlanBell> so the executable has now been installed at /usr/local/bin/yamacha or /usr/bin/yamacha right?
<asaaki> yes!
<asaaki> k lemme change it and try
<AlanBell> /home/nlp/yamacha-0.33 has no further use, you can delete that if you want :)
<asaaki> aha! it's working now! :D
<asaaki> thanks
<asaaki> first it said the .pm thing not in @INC, so i did export PERL5LIB
<asaaki> where can i set this permanently though, so i don't need to export each time?
<AlanBell> not sure
<asaaki> /home/nlp/AMIRA-2.1/bin/AMIRA-BPCFinal.pl: Error - Unable to open final tokenization output file firsttest/mada_unbwt_35349_sentences.txt.amirabpc for writing.
<asaaki> don't think this is a tool-specific problem... but ubuntu permissions again?
<asaaki> i looked at the folder and that long file with .amirabpc extension has a lock on it
<asaaki> ok it's working fine now
<asaaki> :)
<asaaki> bye have a nice day! :)
<czajkowski> http://glow-london.blogspot.com/2011/11/glow-on-november-28th.html  if anyone is interested
<brobostigon> lol, reginald d hunter, just mentioned using a schredder, to shred marajuana, on the bbc.
<penguin42> anyone know a source of cheap dual port pci-e low profile network cards? There are loads of places that google search shows as having startech ones for about Â£25 - but they're all out of stock, and the next ones are ~Â£100
<popey> wheee
<DaveBug> woo - Ã¼bersplit!
<bigcalm> So far only 6 people might or might not be attending the xmas meal. I wish more peepes would sign up: http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-uk/1409/detail/
<nymwar> This may sound like a strange request, but how do I edit my user details on http://ubuntuforums.org ?
<nymwar> If I click on "user CP" (don't no what CP means) I just get a message saying "you do not have permission to access this page"
<nymwar> My user details on ubuntuforums are way out of date.  According to this I'm still on 9.04
<AlanBell> bigcalm: I did email the canonical-uk list but I got held in moderation, no idea if my mails there ever get through
<czajkowski> AlanBell: just ask one of the London offices to forward it on
<nymwar> Also another question.  I've developed some software and packaged it, but I'd like to include a screenshot when it gets opened in the Software Center.  Any ideas on how to do that?
<czajkowski> I think maybe not having a date in mind may be a factor for some
<AlanBell> probably, bit catch 22 though
<AlanBell> well I will set a date for it on Monday
<czajkowski> aye
<czajkowski> nice idea
<czajkowski> for something different mind you
<AlanBell> emailing people at canonical tends to be less than entirely productive
<czajkowski> I may pop along afterwards for drinks, but the dininig experience is not something I'd enjoy tbh
<czajkowski> but I think tis a nice idea for something new
<czajkowski> AlanBell: I poked TREllis for the happy hour to send mail to the office
<AlanBell> print announcement, take train to millbank, beg to be let in, stick announcement on fridge
<AlanBell> that appears to be the correct procedure
<czajkowski> heheh
<AlanBell> I emailed marianna and silbs about it a few weeks ago, before UDS and got no reply
<Pendulum> AlanBell: unfortunately that's a bad time to e-mail those 2
<AlanBell> and I emailed them again on thursday
<AlanBell> nymwar: http://screenshots.ubuntu.com/upload (ignore the debian branding)
<nymwar> I've looked at that, but my package isn't an official debian repository one.
<czajkowski> 6
<czajkowski> AlanBell: I'm sure someone will get it circulated, I'd say they probably do their own xmas bash as well
<AlanBell> probably
<TREllis> AlanBell: ah, never saw a mail from you on canonical-uk
<AlanBell> does anyone do moderation on that list?
<AlanBell> do my mails just go to /dev/null
<TREllis> I expect there is someone doing it, but it might have got put to /dev/null :-)
<czajkowski> TREllis: morning :)
<TREllis> czajkowski: morning
<TREllis> of course, now you can bribe popey to posting it to an internal list :-)
<AlanBell> yeah, but that will cost me a lot of beers
<Pendulum> AlanBell: he doesn't owe you a lot of beers already?
<AlanBell> there are various people I can poke to send mails internally, (chris kenyon, popey, TREllis, Matt Barker, Amanda Brock) but they all seem to be kind of an unofficial route in
<Pendulum> I don't think there is an official route in for non-Canonical folks
<AlanBell> Pendulum: oh, probably :)
<TREllis> AlanBell: 2nd Dec is the Canonical party, so if you want a chance of anyone making it... don't book anything up for that date :)
<Pendulum> which isn't surprising
<AlanBell> TREllis: good to know, thanks
<AlanBell> TREllis: there is a happy hour in surbiton on the 8th December
<AlanBell> I sent an email about that to canonical-uk as well
<bastubis> Speaking of meetups, Flossie London meetup starts in 30 mins - we'll be tweeting on #flossie and in the #fossbox channel on freenode as well as hanging out here messing about with alternive social networking. All women welcome
<TREllis> AlanBell: ah. No sign of that one either, if you want something fwded on, I'm happy to do that
<AlanBell> just this https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-uk/2011-November/032000.html I put canonical-uk in bcc
<AlanBell> I think very few people in the office are on the ubuntu-uk mailing list, which is fine, but occasionally it would be nice to invite them to events we are organising
<penguin42> file a lp entry....
<AlanBell> penguin42: what do you mean?
<penguin42> AlanBell: Bug on Ubuntu 'Christmas party bookings not needed' and assign it to a bunch of people :-)
<penguin42> ^needed^added
<AlanBell> interesting idea!
<penguin42> (but don't blame me.....101 tips for abusing bug trackers....)
<DJones> Hmmh, which ubuntu download do I need when I get this error message Ubuntu â This kernel requires an x86-64 CPU, but only detected an i686 CPU.
<DJones> I'd downloaded the default 32 bit version, but thats the error I get
<DJones> I thought the i386/32 bit version was the right one
<popey> is it an old computer?
<popey> whats the filename of the iso?
<DJones> Hmmh, i386 desktop cd gives the error, i386 alternate cd doesn't
<DJones> Its about 4-5 years old
<DJones> iso is ubuntu-11.10-desktop-i386.iso
<popey> what cpu is it?
<DJones> alternate cd is working ok
<DJones> Not sure, its my mums old laptop
<popey> what make & model?
<DJones> Its a compaq presario c300
<popey> which specific one?
<popey> there's loads
<popey> should have a model number on the underside
<popey> http://h20000.www2.hp.com/bizsupport/TechSupport/ProductList.jsp?lang=en&cc=us&prodTypeId=321957&prodSeriesId=3213865&taskId=135
<DJones> I know, I can't tell, the labels have faded on it
<DJones> Thats the list I'm looking at
<popey> heh
<DJones> I'll see what comes up when its installed
<DJones> Looks like it might be a celeron M 1.6Ghz
<DJones> The rest of these spec's look the same & I think when I went into the bios it said 1.6Ghz http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080330041427AATaUuX
<Oli> That should be well within the realms of i386.
<Oli> I'd just try to verify that whatever you're booting it from is actually using the 32bit ISO. Sounds like an impossibly simple mistake but I'm sure it's possible!
<DJones> "ubuntu-11.10-desktop-i386" Downloaded direct from ubuntu website
<popey> i have burned two coasters now
<popey> this is getting annoying
<popey> md5sum is okay
<DJones> md5 for the iso matches c396dd0f97bd122691bdb92d7e68fde5 *ubuntu-11.10-desktop-i386.iso
<popey> brasero barfs at the very end
<Oli> popey: have you turned off manual checking? I know we've had a few people on AU who find that turning off the verification process lets the disk finalise.
<Oli> I'll try and find a thread to confirm that.
<popey> what option is that?
<Oli> http://askubuntu.com/questions/20148/how-can-i-disable-checksum-future-in-brasero
<popey> I only have a 'use burnproof' option
<popey> the error I am getting is media sense failure
<DJones> I downloaded Ubuntu 11.10 - Latest version, 32-bit (recommended) from http://www.ubuntu.com/download/ubuntu/download
<popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/737300/
<popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/737301/
 * popey smiles at 737300
<popey> errors at the bottom
<popey> the second one was burned at a much lower speed
<popey> both on CRR
<popey> *CDR
<christel> bigcalm: done, albeit depending on the final date :)
<buzz_> grumble. svn-load worked a couple of years ago.. then it broken with newer python. then it worked again for natty and now it's broken again on oneiric :(
<buzz_> back to old perl then
 * popey tries those options
<popey> yay
<popey> burned better
<popey> thanks Oli
<Oli> That worked? I'm surprised - I thought your issue looked a little different. There are certainly some bugs in Brasero that need serious attention.
<popey> well, also I used a dvdr rather than cdr, so could be a different code path
<popey> i didnt want to waste another cdr
<Azelphur> got a networked printer, when I try to print on it from another machine it's demanding authentication. How do I turn that off?
<Azelphur> it's quite annoying, I see no settings for it in the printer settings, all the info I've found so far on the web is outdated/wrong, and I never set a password in the first place for there to be one!
<popey> Azelphur: when you say "in the printer settings" where is that?
<popey> cups on your pc or browser pointed at the printer IP?
<Azelphur> system-config-printer
<popey> try pointing a browser at it
<Azelphur> what port?
<popey> they often have a webserver with settings in there
<popey> 80 âº
<popey> or nmap it âº
<Azelphur> I already have a webserver running on port 80 so it's not 80
<popey> no, on the printer
<popey> http://ip_address_of_printer/
<Azelphur> sorry, I mean I have a normal printer and am trying to share it
<Azelphur> really bad wording there
<popey> ah, sorry, thought it was networked
<Azelphur> hehe
<Azelphur> so laptop is trying to connect to pc to print
<Azelphur> but pc is asking for authentication, which is silly :S
<popey> its samba innit?
<Azelphur> nah, cups
<Azelphur> oh hey, success, re-added it as ipp instead of cups and now it seems to be going
<christel> AlanBell: hoi! you around?
<freakyclown> guys... anyone xubuntu gurus about?
<Azelphur> !ask | freakyclown
<lubotu3`> freakyclown: Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line and in the channel, so that others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-) See also !patience
<freakyclown> er.. i was asking if someone who might be able to help was about...rathe rthan waste my time asking a question that will be ignored by those that cant help...
<penguin42> freakyclown: Indeed but it's quicker to ask the question :-)
<Azelphur> ^
<penguin42> so, what was the question anyway?
 * AlanBell wonders whether to say yes to christel
<Azelphur> AlanBell: don't do it, it's a trap. Run.
<AlanBell> I think it might be
<AlanBell> freakyclown: there is #xubuntu which might be a better place to ask unspecified xubuntu questions
<Azelphur> this is why I use the bot to reply to people that don't ask a question, 99% of the time no matter what you do, they won't actually ask the question.
<Azelphur> It's like they want you to bludgeon them with a baseball bat to extort the question :P
<AlanBell> I suspect freakyclown was going to ask a difficult question anyway :)
<Azelphur> hehe
<Azelphur> I've been using xfce for a while and I'm quite familiar with it now \o/
<Azelphur> been using it as my main OS since 11.10 beta
 * penguin42 tried it for a while, but decided to go with KDE in the end
<AlanBell> because they haven't broken multimonitor support in that?
<Azelphur> AlanBell: correct
<Azelphur> AlanBell: not only is it not broken, but it actually seems to be supported, I can set my wallpaper per monitor and stuff
<AlanBell> nice
<Azelphur> I actually quite like Unity, I use it on my laptops
<Azelphur> but when it comes to my PC, it just doesn't work so I can't use it :P
<christel> AlanBell: hehe -- do you know of any car rental places closer to farnham than farnborough? :)
<AlanBell> yeah, unity is OK, just various things like multi monitor and accessibility were not considered in the design phase, so got broken by design and now they are gradually being unbroken again
<christel> renault needs 10 working days to replace the key for my car apparently
<AlanBell> christel: there is one in Aldershot fairly near the station
<christel> (admittedly it may have been silly of me to step on it with heels)
<christel> i tried to google and it wanted to send me to somewhere in liphook, i've no idea where that even is!
<AlanBell> I avoid wearing heels specifically to not break my car keys
<Pendulum> christel: 10 working days o.O
<christel> AlanBell: lovely! i shall stalk it
<christel> Pendulum: yeah, they insist they need that long to get one from the manufacturer
<christel> at which point they insist on towing my car from my house to their place to program the new key
<christel> they tried to insist i drive it there
<AlanBell> enterprise on arthur street
<penguin42> christel: So if you stood on that one with the heels what did you do with your spare?
<Azelphur> christel: if they are cheap, perhaps get a spare in case one gets lost or stepped on :)
<christel> but after i while they understood that i couldn't start it
<Azelphur> then you won't be out of a care should something go wrong next time lol
<AlanBell> keys are no longer simple things
<christel> penguin42: well.. i had two spares.. they have vanishd
<Azelphur> car*
<Azelphur> haha
<Azelphur> now that's just bad luck
<christel> Azelphur: mmm 200 for the replacement, 50 for the programming and god knows what for the towing!
<Azelphur> christel: ouch :/
<AlanBell> keys are getting so complicated now that if you lose one it is probably easier to get a new car
<christel> no kidding!
<penguin42> anyone use lxc ? How easy is it to setup?
<christel> my car is rubbish mind, i think i've spent a lot more on parts and silly repairs than the car actual cost me
<christel> (i am very much not buying a renault again)
 * bigcalm returns from shopping!
<penguin42> bigcalm: What did you get?
<bigcalm> penguin42: half of Sainsbury's stock by the looks of it
<penguin42> bigcalm: Oh cool, in that case just let me store the chocolate for you....
<freakyclown> back sorry - major problem just then when i broke things worse :/
<freakyclown> so running ubuntu 11.10 with unity etc... installed xubuntu-desktop - logged out/reboot and at the purple login screen I select xfce||xubuntu session
<freakyclown> i see the xfce/xubuntu desktop flash up but then the purple screen is laying on top of everything so i cant use anythign at all
<Azelphur> is the purple screen the default Ubuntu wallpaper? perhaps nautilus is drawing the desktop for some reason
<freakyclown> dont think its the deafult desktop
<bigcalm> freakyclown: open a terminal and kill nautils(sp?)
<freakyclown> i cant open a terminal ;)
<bigcalm> ctrl + alt + f2
<freakyclown> oh i guess i could switch tty
<freakyclown> ok brb let me log out and try again
<bigcalm> freakyclown: how did you install xubuntu ?
<freakyclown> right... ok nautilus wasnt running
<freakyclown> and its definatly not the default desktop
<bigcalm> I made the mistake of installing xfce instead of xubuntu-desktop
<freakyclown> its the purple screen with the white dots over it.. and ubuntu 11.10 written on the bottom left
<darael> freakyclown: Does an alt-click and drag do anything to the floating whatsit?
<freakyclown> http://www.extremetech.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/ubuntu-11.10-login-crop.jpg
<freakyclown> i get that screen but without the login prompt/other/guest account part
<freakyclown> so i select xfce/xubuntu from the drop down box..put in my password
<freakyclown> xfce loads and the screen flickers back and forth btween the xfce desktop and the purple screen
<freakyclown> then finishs on the purple screen
<bigcalm> Your machine is possessed
<freakyclown> and i cant do anything :/
<freakyclown> indeed :(
<Azelphur> freakyclown: did you install xubuntu-desktop or xfce
<freakyclown> xubuntu-desktop
<Azelphur> hmm
<Azelphur> does Ubuntu work?
<freakyclown> i uninstalled unity...and well...lets just say that was a scary moment :/
<freakyclown> yeah im on that now
<darael> If it's a window being drawn by some program, dropping to a tty and doing "DISPLAY=:0.0 xprop | less", going back to the desktop, clicking it, and returning to the tty /might/ get some info on it.  Just an idea.
<Azelphur> that's a good idea ^
<freakyclown> ok let me try that...brb
<freakyclown> mmm ok i get alot of stuff back
<freakyclown> what am i trying to find?
<Azelphur> freakyclown: DISPLAY=:0.0 xprop | pastebinit
<Azelphur> give link to us so we can see it :D
<popey> I appear to have managed to install a system with username and hostname swapped
 * penguin42 gives up on lxc
<penguin42> doing a lxc-start on my newly created container kills the X of the host
<bigcalm> popey: are you going to the xmas uu meal?
<popey> hard to say without knowing when it is
<AlanBell> when would you like it to be?
<bigcalm> popey: then you can put yourself down as a maybe :)
<popey> hmm
<DJones> Finally, 11.10 installed, updated & broadcom wireless hit with a mallet
<freakyclown> http://pastebin.com/BTNvxbgz
 * freakyclown gives in trying to get it working
<freakyclown> i need a working lappy for work tomorrow
<freakyclown> :/
<penguin42> freakyclown: Which display manager are you using? Lightdm?
<popey> in unity2d is it possible to make the launcher not hide/
 * mattt can't wait to get his hands on a raspberrypi board
 * penguin42 can't wait to get his hands on his apple crumble; it should be done in about 15mins
<mattt> mmm
<czajkowski> .c
<ixxvil> anyone codes in php a lot?
<ixxvil> whats with php converting . to _?
<ixxvil> unexpected behaviours
<bigcalm> ixxvil: in what context?
<LSymonds> ixxvil: what do you mean?
<ixxvil> http://ca.php.net/variables.external
<ixxvil> Dots in incoming variable names
<bigcalm> Note:
<bigcalm> Dots and spaces in variable names are converted to underscores. For example <input name="a.b" /> becomes $_REQUEST["a_b"].
<ixxvil> so question is why does it convert dots to _?
<bigcalm> It's intended behaviour
<ixxvil> intended?
<ixxvil> how so?
<bigcalm> It's within the description on the page, not as part of a user comment
<ixxvil> interesting
<freakyclown> arggghhh help guys... i tried removing xubuntu-desktop
<freakyclown> and now for some reason on reboot i get an xubuntu splash loading bar/screen
<freakyclown> and it hangs there
<darael> freakyclown: Dost thou get a grub menu on boot?  If so, edit the entry before booting (e, I think, but it's displayed what key to use) and remove the word "splash" from the kernel line.  That ought to bypass the splash screen.
<freakyclown> nope
<ubuntubhoy> press 'esc' after the bios screen
<ubuntubhoy> should bring up grub
<darael> The grub menu is usually accessed, when it's set not to display, by holding shift immediately after the bios screen.
<darael> ubuntubhoy: My memory is that that's for grub.  For grub2 (which has been default for a few releases now) it's shift.
<freakyclown> ok ill have to try that
 * penguin42 burps in an appley manner
<ubuntubhoy> TBH I've not used it since legacy
<freakyclown> i can see the boot sequence
<freakyclown> and i see the userspace splash start and stop
<freakyclown> and i get to "stopping boot sequence OK"
<darael> And it hangs there?  If so, canst thou drop to a TTY, or have they not started yet?
<penguin42> freakyclown: try a ctrl-alt-f1 to see if you get any more
<freakyclown> ok so i got rid of the splash and quiet from the startup
<freakyclown> still stuck :/
<penguin42> freakyclown: Did you change display manager or are you still on lightdm?
<freakyclown> i had changed it to gdm
<freakyclown> but changed it back
<penguin42> freakyclown: OK, it's probably lightdm freaking out - it tends to break badly
<freakyclown> awesome :(
<penguin42> freakyclown: try ctrl-alt-f1 when it hangs to see if you get a login
<freakyclown> yeah im on another tty to chat on irc
<penguin42> freakyclown: OK, so nuke lightdm
<penguin42> freakyclown: There may be some useful logs in /etc/lightdm as to why it broke - possibly because you haven't reinstalled the greeter it's configured for
<popey> more likely /var/log/lightdm than /etc/lightdm
<penguin42> oops yes, sorry
<freakyclown> ooooooooook thats odd
<freakyclown> ......
<freakyclown> lightdm wasnt running
<freakyclown> so i run it and got a login screen!
<penguin42> hmm curious
 * freakyclown ponders
<freakyclown> mmm installed gdm
<freakyclown> and thats fixed it
<freakyclown> still no idea why i have a xubuntu splash screen though
<freakyclown> but sod it - its working enough for work tomorrow!
 * freakyclown owes penguin42 a pint
<freakyclown> wouldnt have found the lightdm thing not working when i assumed it was!
<penguin42> freakyclown: It seems to be a generic known bug with lightdm that it has many ways in 11.10 of just going 'no, I'm sulking'
<freakyclown> rofl
<freakyclown> anyway gotta get on the road now - cheers
<penguin42> no problem; I'll remember the IoU for a pint of hot chocolate....
<czajkowski> hmm I've been asked to speak at a scotish event ;)
<mgdm> czajkowski: In April?
<ubuntubhoy> Does it involve booze ?
<czajkowski> mgdm: aye
<czajkowski> ubuntubhoy: no idea
<ubuntubhoy> Being a Scot, I can tell you it will go better if it does
<mgdm> czajkowski: Cool, if you go, I'll see you there
<mattt> ubuntubhoy: where in scotland?
<ubuntubhoy> mattt, Glasgow
<mattt> ubuntubhoy: nice, you enjoy living there?
 * mattt wants to move to skye
<ubuntubhoy> Skye, and Glasgow are worlds apart
 * mgdm moved from Lewis to Glasgow last year
<ubuntubhoy> feck, its jock city in here :D
<ubuntubhoy> but yeah, I like Glasgow
<ubuntubhoy> most of the time
<mattt> ubuntubhoy: yeah, wasn't implying they were similar :P
<mattt> mgdm: what'd you do that for?
<ubuntubhoy> the grass is always greener
<mgdm> mattt: got bored of Lewis, and got a job here
<mattt> yeah, to be honest, i'd probably go mental on skye :P
<mattt> but would love to give it a shot
<ubuntubhoy> I am and think always will be a city boy
<mgdm> I think I am too, despite not having been born in one :-)
<mattt> mgdm: what kind of work did you do while in lewis?
<mgdm> mattt: sysadmin/PHP coder
<mgdm> now I just do the PHP
<mattt> mgdm: work from home or something?  :P
<mgdm> mattt: nope
<mattt> jeez, must have been a miracle finding that
<mgdm> Not really
<mgdm> there's a lot of IT companies in Stornoway
<LSymonds> Jobs.
<LSymonds> If only I had one.
<czajkowski> http://www.open-source-scotland.com/
<ubuntubhoy> east coast
<LSymonds> czajkowski, shame I'm no where near Edinburgh!
<czajkowski> LSymonds: neither am I
<mattt> jeez, some good speakers at that conference
<diplo> evening all
<AlanBell> happy hour \o/ http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-uk/1412/detail/
<AlanBell> window 28
#ubuntu-uk 2012-11-05
<BigRedS> yeah, one morning I woke up incredibly hungover in Wales and decided to put the telly on. About an hour in someone pointed out that everyone was speaking Welsh
<mgdm> heh heh
<bittin> http://derpy.me/nxk9U
<shauno> okay, perhaps not that mesmerising
<mgdm> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-5hII715_s
<shauno> now I feel old.
<AlanBell> morning all
<TheOpenSourcerer> morning
 * TheOpenSourcerer just added another applicant to our HR system.
<AlanBell> yay
<Azelphur> dumb question, what's the format for having an item delivered to an apartment? is it like "Flat 3 Number 14 London Road" or "14 London Road | Flat 3" ?
<Azelphur> | being a newline :p
<popey> depends what the form will let you fill in :)
<Azelphur> typical address line 1 / address line 2
<christel> GOOOD MORNING
<Azelphur> Amazon is being a bright cookie
<TheOpenSourcerer> Azelphur: I think the general style is to put the smallest object first. So the Flat Number, then building number
<Azelphur> it corrected Flat 2, 10 blah road, to "Flat 2 5", sense makes none
<Azelphur> TheOpenSourcerer: fun :)
<popey> morning btw
<Azelphur> morning :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> lo popey
<Azelphur> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/Photos/2012/November/2012-11-05-082554_1184x188_scrot.png
 * Azelphur facepalms
<Azelphur> also for anyone who hasn't seen the 24 hour super computer build, It's pretty cool http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k32Bwy9rha4
<BigRedS> TheOpenSourcerer: Aha! Cool!
<TheOpenSourcerer> what? BigRedS
<diplo> Morning all
<andyc> Silly question: When does rc.local get run?  Is it after all other upstart scripts?
<andyc> And morning all!
<BigRedS> TheOpenSourcerer: your hiring
<TheOpenSourcerer> ah, thanks
<BigRedS> andyc: it's after  all the othher init scripts traditionally. I guess thatt in an  upstart syysttem it'ss after all teh upstart stuff
<andyc> BigRedS, thanks
<mungojerry> got no data services on o2/giffgaff at the mo
<mungojerry> anyone else?
<AlanBell> mungojerry: o2 is fine
<mungojerry> oh :(
<mungojerry> rebooted my phone
<mungojerry> still no data
<AlanBell> well I am tethered to my phone in basingstoke right now
<mungojerry> it's not a local issue since i travelled into london
<diplo> mungojerry: Anything specific, will test now
<diplo> http://community.giffgaff.com/t5/Help-Ask-the-community-got-stuck/How-is-the-Service-where-I-am/ta-p/5643472
<mungojerry> a colleague has working GG and is next to me
<diplo> yeah mines connected, albeit only getting gprs ( but that could be my office, only use wifi here so never checked before
<diplo> )
<JamesTait> Good morning, all!
<BigRedS> Good Morning!
<mungojerry> diplo, i downlaoded the giffgaff apn app from play store, and now fixed :D
<Laney> how does facebook know where i've been?
<Laney> does the android app report my location to it?
<diplo> Laney: Isn't that an option in the settings to turn that off
<Laney> no idea
<diplo> ah yes I've had to reset mine before I think
<Laney> i'm new to this
 * diplo checks
<diplo> yeah menu -> settings
<Laney> i found some options
<diplo> Messenger Location Service ( Location is on ) on mine
<Laney> gps and wifi location
<BigRedS> Laney: there's 'tinfoil for facebook' for the paranoid-but-still-using-facebook, which I gather sandboxes it and prompts you before telling it anything
<Laney> I'll be alright without it knowing my location
<BigRedS> Anyone know if there is some sane way of having a computer keep updated with googlebot's IP addresses
<popey> run apache on it and grep the logs :)
<BigRedS> haha
<directhex> googlebot has more than one IP address
<dwatkins> http://support.google.com/webmasters/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=80553
<dwatkins> doesn't give you a way to track it, but at least reverse lookups can be used to verify it's 'genuine'
<BigRedS> yeah, I'm looking at mod_evasive exclusions
<BigRedS> I was hoping for an A record with all the currently-valid IPs in it or something, but I think there isn't one
<dwatkins> if you're lucky they might all be within a particular network/subnet
<BigRedS> I think I was up to seven subnets the last time I had to do this
<dwatkins> (considering Google's diverse geographical locations, however, I doubt that)
<BigRedS> Ah, right, that page says at the bottom that there's no official list posted by google
<BigRedS> Bah. Bad google! Making me do work
<dwatkins> I'm curious, what do you want to do with its IP address ultimately, BigRedS?
<BigRedS> a customer wants to whitelist all of them in mod_evasive
<dwatkins> All I can think of is grepping historical server logs.
<BigRedS> yeah
<BigRedS> I think I'm going to craft a cronjob to do that on a few shared servers
<BigRedS> it's bonkers that there's no official list. Doesn't play well with my laziness
<dwatkins> perhaps they move the daemon around, too - it might run on the same servers as the other stuff they run on their hardware
<dwatkins> I like that they have a battery on each one, makes a lot of sense: http://www.epanorama.net/blog/2009/05/07/google-efficient-data-centers/
<dwatkins> (I'm guessing most people here have seen this already)
<BigRedS> I've long wondered why we don't all do that
<BigRedS> But then I've rackmounted a laptop before, so I'm suspicious of my DC-related ideas :)
<dwatkins> My server at home is a netbook, although it has external disks which aren't powered by its own built-in battery.
<popey> I'd love to see those new samsung arm chromebooks as builders
<ali1234> builders?
<ali1234> like package building? or kits?
<AlanBell> BigRedS: rackmounting laptops makes perfect sense to me
<TheOpenSourcerer> Just saw that czajkowski has been in the UK for two years. Is that all? Seems like much longer than that ;-)
<christel> haha
<czajkowski> oi
<czajkowski> :)
<czajkowski> yup 2 years ago, christel came to LHR and collected a very jet lagged me and brought me to farnham
<AlanBell> and you have picked up the cockney accent already
<czajkowski> eh no
<AlanBell> dwatkins: I have no idea why all servers don't have a UPS on the low voltage side
<dwatkins> AlanBell: good question, as I implied, I get around this by using a netbook ;)
<christel> :D
<AlanBell> just seems nuts that they are all on the mains side, massively more complicated and inefficient
<dwatkins> I can understand using a UPS if there are many diverse devices which need to be kept powered, I guess.
<dwatkins> even then it's a single point of failure, though
<AlanBell> yeah, but the standard use-case is to keep stuff spinning when someone pulls out the wrong wire, for long enough to put it back in again
<AlanBell> and external UPS doesn't actually help with that much, just makes more wires
<ali1234> well here's a thing
<ali1234> if you have a laptop with external drives and the power goes out, what happens when you have a powered netbook with unpowered drives plugged in on the IDE port?
<ali1234> on old PATA motherboards the answer was the drive attempted to pull all it's current through the IDE cable, resulting in smoke
<dwatkins> I don't have a PATA port on my netbook. Sounds painful.
<ali1234> i expect SATA is immune to this
<ali1234> but it's worth finding out
<ali1234> i hope you at least removed the battery from the netbook anyway
<shauno> interestingly, this is the design google uses; 12V battery on each node
<shauno> oh, and scrolling up, I discover I'm already redundant.  nm me then
<AlanBell> shauno: yes, it is the obvious thing to do really
<shauno> I don't know.  they're big, heavy, and don't tend to enjoy the heat.  but it has always puzzled me why we don't use DC for the last-leg distribution
<ali1234> cos DC is very bad over more than a couple of meters
<shauno> well, for instance, we have a ups sat in the bottom of each rack.  so it's doing ac->dc rectification for the battery.  and then dc->ac inverter & pump because it's of that particular design.  and that AC only has to reach the top of the rack at most, before the load turns it back into 12V again.
<AlanBell> shauno: my laptop battery is not big, heavy and is fine with moderate heat
<BigRedS> ali1234: yeah, so you do do your ac/dc in the middle of the rack
<shauno> seems like many wasteful steps
<BigRedS> wastes 1u but so much heat generation happens there, so you can cool it more efficiently
<AlanBell> oh, 12v from the UPS to the servers would make sense too
<AlanBell> given you are not pushing too many amps over it
<BigRedS> but the problem is that few people design whole racks
<BigRedS> so you have to assume that it's some standard coming in, and the only real standard for powering servers is a mains supply
<BigRedS> but if the UPS in the rack only had to power the computers, and not a conversion to AC and then back again a meter later you'd probably get a noticeable increase in uptime on battery power
<shauno> right.  higher efficiency, and you'd get to move a heatsource & fan out of each node
<shauno> it's a very typical design (well, 24V I think) for telcomms, but IT hates it
<dwatkins> I think some of SGI's racks are entirely 24 Volt.
<shauno> as BigRedS said, it's just trying to get too many people to agree on one scheme.  we have enough fun with cisco doing cooling right-to-left instead of front-to-back.  no-one agrees on anything
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<BigRedS> G'morning!
<bigcalm> Ahoy
<bigcalm> My my. That pot noodle has helped me get my mind back on track. Might have added too much tobasco sauce though
<BigRedS> Hm. I think my caffeine dependency has snuck up on me again :(
<mungojerry> has anyone run mdadm /dev/md0 --remove detached before?
<mungojerry> i.e. disk has been marked failed, but has been pulled
<mungojerry> so cannot remove from array
<popey> mungojerry, not sure, I have added and removed disks lots from md arrays
<popey> but not anymore \o/ btrfs
<xnox> mungojerry: there is an option to "fail" a removed disk.
 * xnox recalls it was as if --fail
<mungojerry> it was on a live server, i was scared
<mungojerry> i've done it
<mungojerry> the disk got pulled after it was failed but before it was removed from the md
<mungojerry> so the remove instruction failed because /dev/sda no longer existed
<mungojerry> it worked
<diplo> popey: Do you recommend btrfs ? About to buy 2 more disks for my micro box and going to do it all over again
<xnox> diplo: advices against btrfs in precise. The one in quantal is up to date.
<diplo> Want to reinstall the Micro server as well, running natty atm
<diplo> Do I go for precise for long term or quantal for newness :)
<popey> diplo, I use btrfs with 12 disks on my microserver on 12.04 using the 3.6 kernel
<popey> Linux homeserver 3.6.0-030600rc4-generic #201209011435 SMP Sat Sep 1 18:36:00 UTC 2012 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux
<popey> that one
<diplo> No issues ?
<xnox> popey: did you compile btrfs-tools from source?
<mungojerry> anyone know how i change the flame logo for xscreensaver ?
<mungojerry> when i'm unlocking the screen
<diplo> directhex: More that cat pic is doing my head in :D
<directhex> :D
<diplo> No new tweets to scrool it down :P
<directhex> i am the master of cat gifs
<diplo> scroll*
<directhex> you should retweet it.
<diplo> hah, and then it'll be in my feed for longer
<diplo> Well at least it'll annoy someone else :D
<popey> xnox, I used to, now I use the package in quantal which was backported
<directhex> depends on your client
<popey> xnox, i rarely use the tools though
<directhex> the main thing is how crazy my feed looks with multiple synchronized retweets
<xnox> popey: they are used to boot the box ;-)
<diplo> Done
<popey>  15:01:15 up 25 days,  4:20,  1 user,  load average: 2.69, 2.98, 2.86
<popey> like I say.. rarely
<xnox> popey: kursk:~$ uptime
<xnox>  14:59:37 up 278 days, 55 min,  3 users,  load average: 0.08, 0.03, 0.05
<diplo> blimey, my load is always 0.*, what do you use yours for ?
<popey> its doing backups
<xnox> popey: =))) i am actually scared to reboot. Cause I don't have console access.
<popey> heh
<diplo> yay new tweets.. no more cat.gif
<diplo> :P
<popey> haha, love that gif
<gord> i like this gif https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-g6qJ8ljFMpw/ThpukKr9hrI/AAAAAAAAEyo/vrI1lrAblxo/Oprahs-Bees.gif
<dwatkins> gord: a friend of mine says 'bees' when she says goodbye, as in byee[s]
<dwatkins> I shall send her that next time she says it
<diplo> not seen that one before gord :P
<ali1234> lol that's amazing
<BigRedS> that gif makes no sense to me. Is there a reference I'm not getting?
<ali1234> makes no sense?
<BigRedS> oh good
<ali1234> there's nothing to explain. it's just oprah releasing bees on the audience, and the audience crying in fear while oprah does an evil dance.
<ali1234> it is what it is.
<BigRedS> Ah, good
<BigRedS> that's sort-of what I got out of it
<mungojerry> its brilliant
<mungojerry> i can't imagine any other situation where you'd see those scenes unless a load of bees had been released
<Guest71979> hello
<popey> hi
<SuperMatt> word.
<SuperMatt> ooh, the oxford circus light are going on in half an hour and I'm stuck in my office only a 2 minute walk away
<dwatkins> ooh, I wonder if they're turning on the lights in Edinburgh today too
<shauno> lights?
<SuperMatt> christmas lights
<dwatkins> ah, 29th Nov here in Edinburgh
<dwatkins> I guess it must be darker down south ;)
<mgdm> they're putting Xmas lights on on the 5th of Nov?
<mgdm> WTF?
<SuperMatt> this is london
<mgdm> loonies
<SuperMatt> it's the centre of commercialism for the country, they have to get in there early
<gord> its below 10 degrees, must be xmas
<mungojerry> because halloween is finished
<gord> most people tend to wait for fireworks night to be done with at least
<SuperMatt> weeell, it's fireworks night tonight, technically, but most places did their stuff on saturday
<directhex> argh, fireworks night /o\
<SuperMatt> so it makes christmas fair game
<SuperMatt> according to oxford circus
<mungojerry> people forget that fworks night is about the death of a terrorist and the aversion of a plot
<SuperMatt> it's about standing up to corrupt governments
<SuperMatt> it can be seen many ways :P
<daubers> mungojerry: remember remember the 5th of November
 * daubers intends to sit down with a bag of popcorn and V for Vendetta this evneing
 * popey suspects schwuk_uds isn't at UDS anymore
<popey> :)
<brobostigon> what is the syntax for using pastebinit, to pastebin the output from apt-get? i cant remember.
<mgdm> apt-get install blah | pastebinit
<mgdm> I would guess
<mgdm> apt-get install blah 2>&1 | pastebinit
<mgdm> might be better
<brobostigon> ok, thank you mgdm
<brobostigon> mgdm: that is showing me no output, is that normal. ?
<brunogirin> brobostigon: that's probably because all the output was redirected to pastebinit
<brobostigon> brunogirin: i never understood all this properly.
<brunogirin> brobostigon: the pipe redirects all output of the command before it to the input of the command after it so what you see is the output of the last command in the chain, in this case pastebinit
<mgdm> so pastebinit should just ive you a URL at the end
<brobostigon> brunogirin: ok, ummm,
<brobostigon> mgdm: yep, it just has.
<brunogirin> and 2>&1 redirects standard error to standard output so that both are combined hence everything is given to pastebinit
<brobostigon> ah.
<brunogirin> so now your pastebin should have everything
<brobostigon> http://paste.debian.net/206675/  thats the error output i am getting, it isnt ubuntu, it is debian, but someone might know.
<brobostigon> brunogirin: it did yes, :)
<brunogirin> \o/
<AlanBell> evening all
<brobostigon> evening AlanBell
<AlanBell> are people exploding things today?
<brobostigon> i think the most that will be exploding here, is the fizz, out of a beer bottle.
<Laney> explodingly fizzy beer?
<Laney> sounds not very nice :(
 * brunogirin contemplating opening the bottle that's in the fridge when back home
<brobostigon> thats not quite what i meant, i just meant the fizz coming out of the bottle when opened.
<zleap> AlanBell, just wondered if you have sent any cd's yet,  if I get some before friday I can take em to the next exeter lug meet,  no rush though ?  If they are en route i know to also expect a parcel from the postman :)
<AlanBell> oh, erm I posted all the envelopes on release day
<AlanBell> hope they have not gone astray
<zleap> ok
<zleap> me too
<zleap> i know they charged me for a parcel to send that large packet back, which they didn't before,  i am sure if they had squashed it a bit more it would have gone through their envelope measuring thingy
<zleap> and fallen under letter packet
<zleap> i will check to see if the cheque has been cashed too, if not my packet went astray, which is annoying if it was en-route to you
<AlanBell> oh, hang on, that was the one with the cheque for postage, I probably put that to one side . . .
<zleap> yeah
<zleap> ok np :D
<zleap> at least you got it :)
<ali1234> should have used bitcoins
<zleap> bitcoins ?
<AlanBell> the year of bitcoin for buying stuff is scheduled to follow the year of Linux on the desktop
<ali1234> actually the hardest part is getting bitcoins at the moment
<AlanBell> have they all been found yet?
<ali1234> they will never all be found
<ali1234> reward decays exponentially
<zleap> looks interesting btw
<zleap> so its like paypal only using  open standards
<AlanBell> oh, ok
<AlanBell> not like paypal
<ali1234> no, it is nothing at all like paypal with open standards. that's called open transactions
<zleap> ok
<AlanBell> it is like pounds but based on nothing, unlike pounds which are based on gold that we used to have, but sold
<ali1234> it's even less like that
<zleap> ok
<bootlkjkgf> AlanBell, Any chance that you've got any stickers or release DVD's left ?
<AlanBell> loads of release DVDs
<einonm> ali1234: I believe there is a date for all bitcoins being found, it's sometime in the next century though. So get them while they're hot
<ali1234> the rate will drop to a negligable amounteventually
<bootlkjkgf> Cool . what was the company website ( and thereby address to send a return envelope) ??
<AlanBell> http://ubuntu-uk.org/free-cds/
<AlanBell> zleap: I will send you a stack of them tomorrow
<bootlkjkgf> AlanBell, One problem :; attaining UK stamps ?? ( IOM uses the wrong stamps for this )
<AlanBell> erm, interesting question!
 * bootlkjkgf hears the columns of ubuntu-uk free software distribution quaking.
<ali1234> bitcoins
<AlanBell> bootlkjkgf: just email me your address and I will sort it out
<bootlkjkgf> screw bitcoins I use paypal or direct transfer .. anyway this is a stamp faire now.
<bootlkjkgf> Oh Ok/..
<bootlkjkgf> thanx <- Manx hack
<zleap> AlanBell, thanks
<Myrtti> no postcard yet?
<bootlkjkgf> Hey the guy is a Pro ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTnfpcMiuww&feature=endscreen&NR=1
<dogmatic69> I guess the US election is settled then.. bookies have Obama 2/9 vs Romney 3/1
<shauno> oh that's tonight?
<dogmatic69> tomorrowish
<shauno> ah, of course, broken timezones
<mgdm> not broken any more, no
<mgdm> it's no longer daylight saving time
<shauno> oh, I consider most timeszones broken
<shauno> fancy having to wait until 4am for Homeland just because the americans haven't figured out how London Time works ;)
<mgdm> heh
<mgdm> 4am? Isn't it broadcast on C4?
<shauno> silence may be my best policy there.  or mumble something vague about the channel lineup in the republic
<mgdm> hehe
<AlanBell> we find out the US election result on wednesday morning right?
<ali1234> lolno
<ali1234> if it's a landslide then maybe
<ali1234> but it's likely they'll be doing recounts for days if not weeks
<AlanBell> oh probably, plus legal challenges
<shauno> the beeb are using the term 'cliffhanger'.  which usually means messy
<ali1234> but yeah the voting will be done by wednesday morning
<AlanBell> I vote we get Obama if America doesn't want him
<shauno> I'm glad NJ isn't a 'battleground state'; they've implemented voting by email in a very short timespan, which is a fascinating precedent
<shauno> that'd get dragged through the courts for months if it was actually a crucial vote
<ali1234> i can't see mittens winning
<ali1234> i think turnout will be low
<shauno> low turnout is rarely a good thing
<ali1234> sure. but i think more Rs will stay at home than Ds
<shauno> if all the extremists show up with no sane people to counterbalance, that's a blessing for Romney
<bootlkjkgf> SOME GUYS DONT VOTE FOOLS !!http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zd7c5tQCs1I
#ubuntu-uk 2012-11-06
<AlanBell> night all
<dogmatic69> anyone skilled in POP3?
<dogmatic69> I cant seem to get emails via php sockets or telnet
<dogmatic69> This is what I get using openssl http://bin.cakephp.org/view/527283938
<diplo> Morning all
<bootlkjkgf> diplo, Mornin' Subjagated people of the Queendom. .. I love big breakfast !  -------> http://goo.gl/Qon6S (5GBP/Mo.)
<popey> Daviey, http://photos.pixoulphotography.com/Events/UDS-Raring-Ringtail/26357384_T6rzD6#!i=2197486286&k=tLjGkSM
<theopensourcerer> Those crazy Fins http://www.slate.com/blogs/future_tense/2012/11/05/open_ministry_finland_s_open_source_project_to_let_citizens_propose_laws.html << Myrtti
<christel> sok, most finns are too drunk all of the time to pose much of a threat as far as making law goes
<christel> or actually... maybe that is more likely to result in some most bizarre legislation
<christel> james \o/
<Myrtti> I actually have been a guinea pig for the site
<theopensourcerer> Hi Myrtti - you will be pleased to know that your postcard has arrived and is now on AlanBell's desk.
<Myrtti> they wanted to check if my combination of bank, os and browser worked on the bank identification and signing
<Myrtti> theopensourcerer: excellent
<AlanBell> ooh :) I will be in the office shortly to see it
<czajkowski> aloha
<DJones> \o/ Jelly bean update on my phone
<JamesTait> Good morning all! :)
<SuperMatt> morning
<Daviey> popey: hah, i don't even remember that photo
<popey> tis a good one
<popey> there's a couple more of you
<JamesTait> Daviey, that photo looks like the split second before the chestburster emerges!
<Daviey> heh
<AlanBell> postcard for us from Finland \o/ https://plus.google.com/109175303602657131317/posts/gY3Uwx4yXvf
<christel> ahahah i love it
<christel> :D
 * christel snuggles Myrtti 
<mungojerry> anyone reckon i can repurpose this green button to do customised things with my ubuntu box? http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B001FA6TR2
<mungojerry> like do a screen lock when i press button
<gord> it probably just emulates a keyboard
<Daviey> mungojerry: almost certainly... but how much effort it takes i cannot comment :)
<mungojerry> i wonder
<mungojerry> would be quite fun
<Daviey> I just wish i had a mechanism to search for how-to's on this stuff
<Daviey> something that indexed at least 10,Â­000,Â­000,Â­000,Â­000,Â­000,Â­000,Â­000,Â­000,Â­000,Â­000,Â­000,Â­000,Â­000,Â­000,Â­000,Â­000,Â­000,Â­000,Â­000,Â­000,Â­000,Â­000,Â­000,Â­000,Â­000,Â­000,Â­000,Â­000,Â­000,Â­000,Â­000,Â­000,Â­000 sites.
<Daviey> (also known as a googol)
<Daviey> Now i've finished trolling, http://www.greygreen.org/blog/code/python/ecobutton-linux
<mungojerry> hey awesome
<popey> http://www.amazon.co.uk/review/RDH96GJN6A8R9/ref=cm_cr_dp_title?ie=UTF8&ASIN=B001D5LZ0K&channel=detail-glance&nodeID=560798&store=electronics
<mungojerry> popey, but it's a button
<mungojerry> i won't use it for the intended purpose
<mungojerry> but use it as a wallpaper changer, screen lock, etc
<popey> yes, i know :)
<popey> i was linking to a 'review'
<mungojerry> doesn't work on 64-bit :-|
<mungojerry> you wouldn't think a driver would be that complicated
<Daviey> uh?
<popey> mungojerry, on windows?
<mungojerry> i was just wondering out loud why ti wouldn't work on 64bit windows
<mungojerry> probabyl because they diodn't sell any and it's been around since XP days
<popey> i doubt it's a "driver" but more of a stupid panel applet thing to notify you of all the trees you've saved
<mungojerry> ah true
<popey> I'd plug it into a linux box and see what keyboard shortcut it binds to
<popey> by running xev in a terminal and see what pops up when you press/release the button
<mungojerry> Daviey posted a useful link for someone running it on linux
<mungojerry> think i might buy one, it's only 4 quid
<mungojerry> makes the day pass more easily when you have a green button that makes fart noises
<gord> i've always said i want a usb racing pedal, pressing down on it would increase the value of the -j option passed to make
<gord> and make vroooooooooooooooom noises
<mungojerry> there you go gord, for 4 english pounds
<Wobbo> At my work I PC (Mac) has been stolen. Is uses the (beta) Ubuntu one. I changes the passwords but my information is still on that Mac.
<Wobbo> What to do?
<diplo> Revoke access on the web panel for that machine ?
<diplo> Sure you can do that, not logged in for a while
 * diplo checks
<gord> that still leaves the data on the machine
<diplo> it sure does
<mungojerry> take a copy of all files
<mungojerry> then overwrite each file with one of zero bytes to replace on next sync
<popey> it will only sync if someone logs in to that desktop account
<popey> Wobbo, is it a mac running OSX?
<popey> do you use find my mac?
<Wobbo> Yes, it OSX 10.6
<mungojerry> slightly disturbed about the email thread i've accidentally been copied into
<Wobbo> Why, did you just buy one?
<Wobbo> lol
<mungojerry> about shipping a certain consignmnet through customs
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<mungojerry> some dude with a yacht that wants to shoot pirates with a laser rifle
<popey> Wobbo, hah, no. just that macs come with software that helps you find them
<popey> Wobbo, also maybe you can ask canonical if they will give you the IP of where it connects from
<popey> to trace the laptop
<Wobbo> Thanks
<popey> or indeed any other service you had on it
<popey> a friend of mine traced his laptop and got it back that way. can't remember the service he was using, but it was a third party app installed which revealed the IP to the online service.
<popey> it was a mac too
<Wobbo> It only about important information, lice password that need to be destroyed... (FTP stuff) I have al the information on other computers (normal Ubuntu).
<gord> i would basically assume all passwords are compromised tbh
<gord> just change them all
<diplo> KeepassX
<diplo> Generate passwords, and store them
<diplo> Encrypted, + apps for phones etc and works on all os's
<popey> lastpass \o/
<popey> Daviey, what were you singing? http://photos.pixoulphotography.com/Events/UDS-Raring-Ringtail/26357384_T6rzD6#!i=2197627681&k=wwD4fRh
<Daviey> popey: I'm still not quite sure.. but if i find out who put me in for it, i will stab them :-)
<mungojerry> freemind is almost at v1.0.0 :-|
<mungojerry> can you suspend desktop pc's which use nvidia propriatry driver yet?
<mungojerry> my one at home fails spectacularly
<SuperMatt> mungojerry: I'm using the nv driver on my laptop and closing the lid works fine
<SuperMatt> though I don't know if it's suspending or hibernating right now
<mungojerry> i'm using nvidia
<mungojerry> it fails, but not sure if thats normal
<SuperMatt> I would assume not right now
<mungojerry> (it used to be hard for sure)
<SuperMatt> but that doesn't mean I'm right
<popey> AlanBell, have you documented your webcam stuff at all? now I'm back from UDS I can set it up sometime
<AlanBell> undocumented and mostly junk https://code.launchpad.net/~alanbell/+junk/camcontrol
<AlanBell> and at the moment relies on the camera being mounted inverted :)
<AlanBell> I will fix that at some point
<ahayzen> Hi, if I have a python package which supports both py2 and py3 in the same package should I distribute it as python-abc or python3-abc or both? Thanks, Andy
<ali1234> try asking on #ubuntu-motu
<ali1234> i would go for just python-whatever
<ahayzen> ali1234, Ok thanks :)
<ahayzen> ali1234, if u were interested, u apparently have to do both - as my package is a library
<ali1234> i see
<ali1234> thank makes sense, you'll only need one source package to do that i guess
<ahayzen> then just modify the debian stuff for each one?
<ahayzen> ali1234, http://wiki.debian.org/Python/LibraryStyleGuide seems to tell u what to do
<ali1234> AlanBell: http://paste.ubuntu.com/1337199/ would that do in camcontrol.py?
<ali1234> alternatively: http://paste.ubuntu.com/1337203/
<diplo> Really must buy one myself
<cocoa117> anyone experience issue with ubuntu 12.04 suspend after 3 hour or more, then when wake it up, the whole system freeze?
<bigcalm> I haven't. But it sounds like it could be dependant upon the hardware in use
<cocoa117> it actually happens on two of my computers, they are different brand
<bigcalm> I left my laptop on suspend for 2 days by mistake. Worked just fine when I woke it up
<AlanBell> ali1234: yeah, I was going to do the latter, it was just a consequence of it being written to solve my problem, not as a general thing
<AlanBell> ideally it would be replaced with something running on the firmware of the camera
<popey> Daviey, apparently you sun Killer Queen
<Daviey> popey: Nah it wans't!
<bideannambian> cocoa117: google i915 rc6 enable
<bideannambian> if you have intel graphics
<cocoa117> bideannambian, en... i don't think my cpu is sandybridge
<cocoa117> it is core2 duo
<cocoa117> and both of them are desktop, not laptop
<popey> cocoa117, nvidia video card?
<cocoa117> popey, yes, one of them have nvidia video card, and the other one don't. it's intel build in vga card, as home server
<cocoa117> desktop have NVIDIA Corporation GF108 [GeForce GT 430]
<popey> probably a long existing bug in nvidia binary driver
<Laney> brr
<Laney> quick afternoon heating blast methinks
<czajkowski> Laney: put on a jumper
<Laney> already have 2 on
<Laney> and a pair of these bad boys http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00532S3FY/ref=asc_df_B00532S3FY10457553/?tag=googlecouk06-21&creative=22134&creativeASIN=B00532S3FY&linkCode=asn
<czajkowski> scarf
<Laney> haha
<czajkowski> funky
<Laney> at some point there is a limit to what you should wear inside your house
<Laney> it's somewhere below a scarf for me
<Daviey> Laney: you need a rack of servers in your house.. that keeps you nice and toasty
<Daviey> And you can do a full archive rebuild!
<Laney> phwoar
<czajkowski> anyone any recommendations for books about/on Historical Dramas :)
<BigRedS> fiction, presumably? Not just dramatic events of history...
<czajkowski> yes
<czajkowski> fiction I'd assume also
<czajkowski> but dont know any
<BigRedS> I just thought of a few non-fiction  books about historical events and then figured that's probably not what you were after
<mungojerry> what's a histoircal drama?
<czajkowski> no idea
<czajkowski> it's what i was told someone read
<czajkowski> and wanted to get them stuff for xmas
<czajkowski> have my shopping list all done out
<czajkowski> now to find 24 pressies
 * popey adds laneysocks to his amazon wishlist
<Laney> :D
 * popey needs more stuff for his wishlist what with xmas coming up 
<popey> family ask me every year what I want, i usually say "nothing, i don't care2
<popey> S/2/"
<popey> but they don't listen :(
<Daviey> poor popey
<popey> wishlist is the only way I can avoid getting utter crap for xmas
<popey> yeah, poor me
<popey> buy me stuff Daviey
 * popey adds this crap to his wishlist http://www.amazon.co.uk/JINX-Minecraft-Creeper-Bracelet/dp/B006ISV9KI/ref=pd_rhf_pe_s_cp_4
<Daviey> popey: If i by you anything, i'll make it the most CoC breaking NSFW sick stuff i can.
<mungojerry> czajkowski, i think i know what u mean
<popey> OK!
<mungojerry> like the other boleyn girl, etc?
<popey> OMG! Minecraft socks! http://www.amazon.co.uk/Minecraft-Happy-Socks-3-Pack/dp/B007R3GK98/ref=pd_sim_sbs_k_h_b_cs_10
<theopensourcerer> if anyone is interested in what I want - SINGLE MALT SCOTCH will do me nicely :-)
<mungojerry> it's kind of fan fiction that is a "what if" kind of stuff that historians hate
<czajkowski> I'm buying giant jenga for folks after seeing them at UDS!
<theopensourcerer> My son asked his mum to knit him a Minecraft phone sock for Xmas
<diplo> Anyone in here use puppet ?
<mungojerry> diplo, yes
<diplo> Just about to read up on it.. quick breif of what you use it for ?
<diplo> if you don't mind ?
<mungojerry> changing ntp conf settings, ldap config files, certain sy,bolic links for nfs mounts to work nicely, a fix for sound cards on certain optiplex models,
<mungojerry> etc etc
<mungojerry> anythinthat requires a local config
<mungojerry> iptables,
<czajkowski> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Jeronimo-Giant-Wooden-Tower-Zipped/dp/B000PVXSTY/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1352212743&sr=8-2  comes in a bag :D
<czajkowski> very handy
<diplo> I basically want a simple way of setting up our new erp software for clients and also to install os
<diplo> Basically, RIS/WDS for linux
<diplo> Which puppet isn't really I guess
<diplo> Cobbler seems more what I need I think
<mungojerry> i use kickstart + puppet
<diplo> Will look at kickstart now thanks
<mungojerry> if you wanna go the whole shebang then look into spacewalk
<diplo> Just looking at MAAS as well
<diplo> Will look at that as well thanks
<X3N> popey: is ubuntu planet still updating?
 * diplo seems to have lots of reading
<popey> X3N, which one, normal or uk?
<mungojerry> kickstart > imaging
<X3N> popey: uk
 * popey checks
<diplo> mungojerry: The best one to use in your opinion ?
<mungojerry> for which distro
<mungojerry> smaller group of machines then kickstart, for larger infrastructure then spacewalk is very nice control centre for managing state of updates (like rhn)
<diplo> Mainly CentOS, but Ubuntu/Debian boxes as well. Haven't decided what OS/machine it's running on yet but probably test with 12.04 on a machine I have here
<mungojerry> puppet has a bit of learning curve, but it cross distro and your rules can depend on the distro
<diplo> Well we are a 20 man team and have about 80 customers with ranges of machines / os's / specs
<mungojerry> only ever done kickstart with rhel based machines
<mungojerry> ubuntu did one called landcape but dunno any more about it
<diplo> I basically want to automate the sysadmin guys setup from a 2 hour job to a pxe boot / install / nearly done
<czajkowski> mungojerry: BigRedS found Philipa gregory stuff
<czajkowski> this may work
<mungojerry> my wife has read a few like that
<mungojerry> she may have read the boleyn girl
<diplo> What do you use as your kickstart server mungojerry
<diplo> ah sorry you host on a rhel machine ?
<mungojerry> yes, a SL machine
<mungojerry> a VM with local mirrors
<diplo> ubuntu docs seem to suck for kickstart, will read up rhel's :)
<mungojerry> takes 20 mins to kickstart dekstops, 10 mins for servers, the desktop long bit is installing adobe apps
<diplo> Do you deploy windows boxes as well or not an option under linux for that yet ?
<mungojerry> we use FOG imaging for windows
<mungojerry> although MS do much more advanced stuff like SCCM
<diplo> hah, on there page looking at that now
<diplo> Yea we used RIS, then moved to WDS for our Terminal Services servers at my last place
<diplo> What made me think about this now
<mungojerry> in theory if you don't have to change configs much, then you don't need to learn puppet, just put all config file changes in the postinstall section of kickstart
<diplo> yeah it's a one off mainly for us, so basically want to install centos, our app, disable iptables / selinux and install a few dozen packages and that's it
<diplo> I can do it, not including downloading in about 20-30 mins
<diplo> But it can take the guys 3 hours + sometimes
<diplo> And I thought, if i spend a fwe hours learning/setting it up after 1-2 installs it's covered my time already
<mungojerry> i can send you my kickstart files sometime if you like
<mungojerry> kickstart is pretty easy
<mungojerry> puppet harder, but powerful
<diplo> That would be great, was going to check out the anaconda-ks one from reading the centos docs
<mungojerry> spacewalk longer still, but rewarding
<mungojerry> ah, thats a v good place to start
<diplo> oh yeah, not checked spacewalk yet
<mungojerry> i have some cheeky things too
<mungojerry> like php command in the kickstart to set your hostname based on the IP address
<diplo> So spacewalk looks like landscape but free ?
<mungojerry> yes, in fact it's a free RHN satellite
<mungojerry> off to meeting now
<mungojerry> then to bed with manflu
<diplo> thanks very much for your input
<diplo> appreciate it
<mungojerry> no prob
<mungojerry> ping me another day for ks configs if u need
<diplo> kk ta
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Tony] Four go mad in Dorset - http://tonywhitmore.co.uk/blog/2012/11/05/four-go-mad-in-dorset/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=four-go-mad-in-dorset
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Unite - http://www.jonobacon.org/2012/11/06/unite/
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Michael Wood] dawati-user-testing tool updates - http://www.michaelwood.me.uk/wordpress/2012/11/06/dawati-user-testing-tool-updates/
<popey> X3N, what's your experience of vp8enc?
<popey> X3N, bigwhale has had numerous reports (confirmed) that it eats memory, in kazam when recording the desktop
<SuperMatt> huh, actually surprised to find that ossec doesn't have any checks specifically for someone searching for phpmyadmin
<X3N> popey: haven't had any problems, generally pretty good performance/quality balance
<Laney> did someone just fix planet u-uk?
<popey> i did
<popey> well, ran the job
<Laney> wondered why i was seeing old jono posts
<popey> the cron job was suspended because the job was failing
<popey> X3N, i think the bug has been filed in upstream gstreamer
<X3N> it is still in -bad so I wouldn't be surprised
<popey> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=687493
<lubotu3`> Gnome bug 687493 in don't know "Huge memory leak using Python, Gtk+, GStreamer and vp8enc" [Major,Needinfo]
<BigRedS> Hm. The raspberry pi's power lead looking exactly like a phone charger just proved to be a problem
<SuperMatt> what did you fry?
<BigRedS> No idea yet, I've left it off :)
<BigRedS> No massive problem, but I might label whatever it gets as a permanent power suppl
<BigRedS> y
<SuperMatt> ah righty
<BigRedS> it's just been at work for a bit so I can configure it before taking it to my dad's, gave it a massive list of stuff to install half an hour ago, presumably it's done by now
<popey> X3N, any particular reason you're not extending kazam, but starting a new project?
<X3N> popey: not getting a leak here, but haven't tried gst 1.0 yet still a wip in a branch
<X3N> popey: this isn't designed for screencasting, more for user observation testing
<popey> sure, but it wouldn't take much to add a new video capture device to kazam
<popey> and the end result is the same, recording the screen and output from a camera
<czajkowski> how do I find out the temperature that is currently on the machine ?
<popey> czajkowski, xsensors?
<czajkowski> popey: thank you
<popey> X3N, anyway, be nice to have it packaged up
<X3N> popey: we do other things like two pip webcams for recording a phone/person etc so I'm not sure it would fit with something like kazam, either way it's not a lot of code
<popey> right
<czajkowski> popey: http://twitpic.com/bav5je
<popey> yeah, that's xsensors
<czajkowski> thanks
<ali1234> can i do a wubi install on ubuntu?
<ali1234> i want to install 12.10 on the metal but i don't want to remove by 12.04 and i don't want to repartition
<ali1234> i suppose i could delete a swap partition
<ali1234> yeah that will work
<shauno> lubi.sf.net could be interesting
<shauno> (I'd personally just move swap to a swapfile and use the swap partition, simply because I understand what's going to happen.  but wubi for linux does exist)
<ali1234> i have two swap partitions anyway
<Daviey> i'd just resize the partition.. it's pretty safe these days.
<ali1234> yeah the problem with that is then i have to resize it back
<ali1234> and it is 600GB
<ali1234> also it's 90% full
<shauno> clean up some of that goat p^H .. err .. research, and you'll have more space for sideloading toys :)
<ali1234> most of it is virtual machines
<ali1234> however, i can't test the whitescreen bug in a VM
<ali1234> and compiz developers have basically given up on 12.04
<ali1234> they're now saying it's fixed in 12.10
<ali1234> of course that's the exact same thing they said about 12.04
<cliftonts> hi guys, who fancies a brain teaser?
<cliftonts> well don't all rush at once! lol
<popey> !ask
<lubotu3`> Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line and in the channel, so that others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-) See also !patience
<cliftonts> right
<cliftonts> I've got a spreadsheet where column A is loaded with ID numbers. There are 2 types of ID, some of each in this column and some of type 1 in column B. So I need to find a way to automatically swap them round if there is an entry in both columns.
<cliftonts> I've searched google but nothing looks hopeful.
<brunogirin> cliftonts: easiest way is to get the correct value in column C
<brunogirin> something that says: if B is empty choose A otherwise choose B
<cliftonts> I have model number and subcode (for different sizes, colours etc)
<cliftonts> and some idiot has put model in column A except for when there's a subcode, then that goes in A and model goes in B
<cliftonts> I need them both, but I need all the models in one and all the subcodes in the other
<cliftonts> And I know very little about spreadsheets, I've never had to do something that determines if there is anything in a cell
<brunogirin> cliftonts: in cell C1, put formula "=IF(B1="" ,A1,B1)" and in cell D1: =IF(B1="" ,"",A1); then copy down the columns
<brunogirin> you should then have models and subcodes in the right order in columns C and D; you can then copy the values into a new spreadsheet
<cliftonts> Got it, thanks. I'll have to make a note of that!
<brunogirin> and tell the id10t not to do it again :-)
<cliftonts> It's my supplier and they also do dumb things like a product with 3 sized all priced different are listed with 3 trade prices but all have the RRP of the most expensive
<cliftonts> I've already been rarther vocal on the issue
<brunogirin> what sort of things do they supply?
<cliftonts> adult themed products
<brunogirin> ah well, no industry is ever free from idiots!
<cliftonts> very true
<cliftonts> That's it! Finally everything is uploaded to my site in a sane manner. Thanks
<ali1234> how do i install nvidia driver on 12.10??
<popey> nvidia-current
<popey> is the package name
<popey> nvidia-current-updates also exists
<ali1234> how do i do it using the unity dash?
<popey> search for "software sources"
<popey> it's in there on the last tab
<ali1234> tab?
<popey> of the software sources app
<ali1234> so it is
<ali1234> why didn't it offer to install it for me?
<ali1234> do you seriously think nouveau is suitable for the majority of users now?
<popey> me personally?
<ali1234> no
<ali1234> whoever made this decision
<popey> which decision?
<bashrc> nouveau is ok
<popey> if you tick the "install non free stuff" on the installer, you get nvidia binary blobby AIUI
<popey> certainly always used to
<ali1234> the decision to not pop up a requester asking the user if they want the real driver for their hardware on first boot
<bashrc> although not highly suitable for gaming
<popey> i think as the move to software sources, the dialog changed
<popey> so we no longer have the old dialog we used to
<ali1234> the dialogue is gone
<popey> "jockey"
<ali1234> the "additional drivers" thing that displays it is no longer even on the CD
<popey> ya, jockey
<bashrc> right, I noticed that too
<bashrc> had a helluva time installing proprietary drivers
<ali1234> so, presumably that was a concious decision made by someone somewhere
<ali1234> does that person think that nouveau is suitable for the majority of users? or do they think that the new method to install nvidia is just as simple as the old way?
<popey> i suspect there was a decision made to migrate the tools, and a separate decision that we don't have time left in the cycle to make it auto start
<popey> i dont think the thought process is as you characterise it
<popey> davmor2 may know more
<directhex> the new dialogue is nice, albeit in a dumb place
<ali1234> yeah agreed
<bashrc> lookup that hardware drivers package
<popey> indeed
<directhex> someone promised me an experimental high performance fglrx
<bashrc> see what the discussion was
<directhex> i await it waitilly!
<directhex> i wait harder than i've ever waited before
<ali1234> so do yu think i should go experimental or normal? which is more likely to work with compiz?
<ali1234> also why are the options in the order they are in?
<ali1234> i'm going with the *only* one that says it has actually been tested, nvidia-current
<popey> yeah, we had to revert back
<popey> hence the amusing version number
<popey> nvidia-current | 304.51.really.304.43-0ubuntu1 | quantal/restricted | amd64, i386
<popey> vs:-
<popey> nvidia-current-updates | 304.51-0ubuntu1 | quantal/restricted | amd64, i386
<ali1234> this fancy schmancy dialog doesn't display the version number, so i have no idea what you're talking about
<popey> ah, more awesome than before then
<ali1234> hah, that's how i should package compiz upstream
<brunogirin> you may also want to consider this bug before using the proprietary driver: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nvidia-graphics-drivers-updates/+bug/1068341
<ali1234> compiz 1.0-really-0.8
<lubotu3`> Launchpad bug 1068341 in dpkg (Ubuntu) "No way to specify correct dependencies for dkms packages" [Wishlist,Confirmed]
<popey> :)
<popey> its done like that because someone pushed 304.51 a bit early, still had some horrid bugs
<directhex> flashplugin-nonfree | 10.0.1.218+10.0.0.525ubuntu1~hardy1+really9.0.124.0ubuntu2 | hardy-backports/multiverse | source, amd64, i386, lpia
<popey> hmm, searching for jockey turns up interesting shopping results
<directhex> version numbars!
<ali1234> popey: did you see the fun stuff i found the other day?
<popey> dunno, what was it relating to?
<ali1234> try searching for cock a leekie soup
<Unnheulu> How do I stop xchat auto-joining this channel?...
<ali1234> it looks like it has been fixed now
<bashrc> right click and remove from favourites
<Unnheulu> And where is favourites?
<ali1234> oh wait i turned of internet search
<Unnheulu> I have disabled auto-join, and it still joins
<popey> i see nothing untoward
<directhex> ali1234, where do you turn that off?
<bashrc> on the channel on the left hand side
<ali1234> directhex: in system settings privacy panel
<popey> dash -> privacy
<Unnheulu> None of the options mention favourites
<Unnheulu> And auto join on connect has been unticked
<ali1234> popey: basically if you search "$swear" it filters but if you search "$swear " (with an extra space) then it does not filter anything
<bashrc> there's a list of channels on the left hand side.  Right click on the one you want to remove from autostart and select "remove from favourites"
<Unnheulu> It doesn't say favourites anywhere on right click.
<bashrc> can you see the list of channels?
<directhex> hm, couple of extra linux games have appeared in the steam cdr
<directhex> currently 50 items in there
<Unnheulu> Save Transcript -> Leave -> Close -> Join -> Auto-join on connect -> Show join/part messages -> Find -> Bans
<AlanBell> ali1234: that is the intended behaviour
<ali1234> AlanBell: perhaps, but in that case the intentions are bad
<Unnheulu> Yes, I can see the list of channels, thus how I removed it from the auto-join list.
<AlanBell> so that you can search for rude things if you want to
<AlanBell> but you don't accidentally get rude things
<directhex> oh
<directhex> xchat-gnome not xchat
<directhex> what a useful distrinction there is between those apps Â¬_Â¬
<ali1234> but you do accidentally get rude things, if you search for "cock a leekie" and you type slow
<bashrc> heh
<AlanBell> I think that is an edge case
<bashrc> I'm on xchat rather than xchat-gnome
<AlanBell> analyser was the search bug they were trying to fix
<Unnheulu> From my experience they've been remarkably similar :/
<AlanBell> without actually being censorious
<Unnheulu> Either way, how do I disable auto-joining this channel?
<ali1234> btw is the filter even open?
<AlanBell> Unnheulu: I think there is an Ubuntu network in your networks list
<ali1234> someone told me "patches welcome" last time i complained and it didn't occur to me until much later that it's not even open source
<AlanBell> which autojoins #ubuntu-<countrycode>
<AlanBell> ali1234: patches not welcome, that is server side closedness
<ali1234> exactly
<bashrc> xchat isn't open source?
<AlanBell> bashrc: products.ubuntu.com isn't open source
<bashrc> ok
<Unnheulu> The network name is put as freenode...
 * brobostigon thanks AlanBell for his response to the job, it is rare to get an email back, from an application. 
<Unnheulu> (as opposed to ubuntu server as in old versions of ubuntu)
<popey> I have to say that's probably the first time anyone has ever said "cock a leekie soup" to me online
<popey> ever
<AlanBell> brobostigon: thanks for applying
<brobostigon> AlanBell: i would hope, because of what i have worked with, i can be useful in the future.
<Unnheulu> So how can I stop it auto connecting? :/
<AlanBell> possibly, we aim to grow bigger and better, there could be all sorts of stuff coming up eventually :)
<brobostigon> :)
<AlanBell> Unnheulu: which client is this? xchat-gnome?
<Unnheulu> Yah
 * AlanBell installs
 * popey leaves for podcasting heaven
<popey> i.e. tonys house
<directhex> Unpacking steam (from Downloads/steam.deb) ...
<Azelphur> directhex: slow, I already downloaded installed and logged in
<Azelphur> and there's some python in here!
<directhex> Azelphur, logged in successfully?
<Azelphur> directhex: logged in and got kicked out again for not being part of the beta
<Azelphur> :<
<directhex> Azelphur, not just me then
<directhex>  Maintainer: Valve Software LLC <ubuntu-support@valvesoftware.com>
<directhex> huh
<jacobw> awesome
<brunogirin> does anybody know if there's a channel for ubuntu ppc?
<Azelphur> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/screenshots/2012/November/2012-11-06-192223_1000x660_scrot.png screenshot of it running on my pc, btw :p
<AlanBell> my whut meter just exploded http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/piece-cardboard-shaped-bit-like-iPhone-5-USED-/160916451185
<brunogirin> AlanBell: I don't blame you!
<ali1234> http://www.myfacewhen.net/view/4608-ew <- my face when i log in to my spam trap email account to see if i got a steam beta key and all i got was a message from nokia telling me to preorder my lumia 820 now
<Azelphur> ali1234: rofl
<ali1234> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-20217901 HAHAHAHAHA
<directhex> ali1234,  http://cdn.grumpycats.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/Nov-4v3-625x416.jpg ?
<ali1234> haha
<ali1234> that cat sure is grumpy looking
<Azelphur> successfully exploited steam beta client
<Azelphur> I'm in
<Azelphur> :P
<ali1234> nice one
<Azelphur> chatting in steam chat right now using it lol
<directhex> Azelphur, ;o
<directhex> hax!
<ali1234> considering valve's past practices, aren't you worried they will perma ban you?
 * Azelphur shrugs
<Azelphur> lol the stock UI doesn't wanna let me install tf2 either
<directhex> Azelphur, you don't have the rights to it
<Azelphur> true
<Azelphur> directhex: https://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/screenshots/2012/November/2012-11-06-195157_1370x697_scrot.png but I'm in, anyway
<directhex> Azelphur, you have access to appid 520 (tf2 beta) but not the linux binaries (527)
<directhex> also, you've got, like, no games
<Azelphur> ah
<Azelphur> maybe I can install that
<Azelphur> nope, I can't
<Azelphur> directhex: I'm not actually in the beta, I just downloaded the .deb and found a bypass
<Azelphur> :P
<directhex> Azelphur, that's the point, you can install 520, but it depends on 527 which you don't have access to
<Azelphur> directhex: aww :(
<ali1234> it is a DRM system after all
<Azelphur> valve need to hurry up and put me in this beta
<marsilainen> hi all - I'm guessing there are lots of options for this, but just wondering if someone has a recommendation - I'd like to rip the "main" video of a DVD to MPEG (for viewing on a tablet); any suggestions?
<ali1234> handbrake
<ali1234> !handbrake
<lubotu3`> handbrake is a an open-source, GPL-licensed, multiplatform, multithreaded video transcoder, available for MacOS X, Linux and Windows. - http://handbrake.fr
<Azelphur> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/screenshots/2012/November/2012-11-06-195157_1370x697_scrot.png
<Azelphur> :D
<Azelphur> oh whoops that's the same one I posted earlier
<marsilainen> ali1234: thanks, I'll take a look
<directhex> http://store.steampowered.com/news/9289/
<directhex> http://steamcommunity.com/app/221410/discussions/0/882965118606625844/ - don't have an email? you're not in.
<oimon> who do we thank for steam (and ultimately games) coming to ubuntu? i think valve, canonical, humble indie bundle, and microsoft :D
<directhex> humble, first and foremost, in my analysis
<oimon> was w8 a trigger though?
<oimon> humble provided belief/financial viability for sure
<directhex> was w8 a trigger................. a little. but less than people think
<directhex> oh, and you missed kickstarter and unity corp from your list. they're also instrumental in making linux appear to be a very desirable market to game devs. but humble deserves, like, 90% of the credit
<AlanBell> how can I get pulse audio to play a microphone (bluetooth headset) out through speakers?
<directhex> hit it with a spoon until it works
<AlanBell> pacat -r --latency-msec=1 -d  bluez_source.91_1C_11_01_FC_9A | pacat -p --latency-msec=1 -d  alsa_output.pci-0000_00_1b.0.analog-stereo
<AlanBell> that would appear to be the right answer
<AlanBell> too much latency
<Azelphur> popey: I didn't get into the beta, I'm a sad panda now :(
<oimon> canonical really need to ensure the experience with steam and ubuntu out of the box is great though
<oimon> linux on the desktop may be won and lost on the first impressions of teenagers , and not won back for years, if at all
<popey> Azelphur, awwww
<popey> oimon, we are working with valve very closely on that
<popey> new drivers etc
<jacobw> lol
<oimon> and compiz ?
<popey> we had loads of sessions at UDS about it
<oimon> :D
<Azelphur> popey: you should bug valve people and make them put me in the beta? :D
<popey> people from Valve and Unity3D were there
<oimon> i'm sure the importance of it is not understated by canonical
<oimon> among their employees
<Azelphur> I sort of got it running anyway, just can't run TF2 since I'm not actually in the beta, I can use the client and friends and stuff though
<Azelphur> sort of victory \o/
<jacobw> i thought that compiz impacted opengl performance?
<bashrc> For 13.04 I think they should concentrate upon getting the graphics driver installation experience as slick and seamless as possible.  That's is if they want Ubuntu to be usable by the average person for gaming.
<bashrc> Currently the graphics driver installation procedure in 12.10 is horrible, and the archetypal average user is likely to just give up
<oimon> did it break since 12.04? 12.04 is fine for me
<bashrc> yes
<d0m> woohoo, finally fixed the sed line for my temperature probe, munin rocks :D
<bashrc> in the olden days (like 12.04) after installation you would get the hardware devices thing show up.  Click to install the proprietary driver.  Wait to download.  Job done.
<oimon> what now?
<oimon> this is the first time in about 6 years i haven't run a beta of the new release, or tried the release yet
<bashrc> ideally all the graphics drivers would be open source, but we're not quite in that world yet
<brobostigon> how would you measure lag within a connection, yes, tracerouter and pink works, but something closer. ?
<brobostigon> traceroute*
<ali1234> pink?
<brobostigon> ?
<ali1234> they all work the same wy
<ali1234> so what are you trying to measure exactly?
<jacobw> oimon: precise works for you?
<ali1234> lag is a function of latency and packet loss
<ali1234> oimon: not only that but if you do figure out how to install proprietary graphics drivers there is a bug that makes it not work when you reboot
<brobostigon> ali1234: i am trying to measure the delay, between me at home, on adsl, and my vps. nominally knowing, on my vps end, basically packaet loss doesnt happen.
<ali1234> you get a desktop wallpaper and nothing else
<ali1234> to fix it you have to go to a console and run obscure commands
<d0m> When I left Vodafone, they tried to persuade me that data caps are a good thing because it speeds up the network when people aren't browsing youtube as much.
<ali1234> this affects both nvidia and ATI
<oimon> 12,04 was fine, why would it have been allowed to break?
<ali1234> oimon: good question
<oimon> is it really as bad as you guys say?
<jacobw> ha
<ali1234> it works fine once you find where the option has been hidden, and fix the trivial showstopper
<oimon> the blogs would be going crazy
<brobostigon> ali1234: ie, i am trying to work out the lag and packet loss on our adsl.
<jacobw> 'why would it have been allowed to break'
<ali1234> brobostigon: then mtr is what you need
<oimon> ali1234: whats the showstopper for future ref?
<oimon> sync to vblank?
<brobostigon> ali1234: ok, let me learn.
<jacobw> in the era of 'new desktops' anything can break for any reason
<ali1234> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nvidia-graphics-drivers-updates/+bug/1068341
<lubotu3`> Launchpad bug 1068341 in dpkg (Ubuntu) "No way to specify correct dependencies for dkms packages" [Wishlist,Confirmed]
<jacobw> why is window management broken? because it's pretty
<jacobw> why does it take > 3 seconds to switch between windows? because it's pretty
<ali1234> brobostigon: mtr is a cross between traceroute and ping which pings every hop and shows latency and packet loss to that hop
<brobostigon> ali1234: ah, that sounds like the bill. yes.
<ali1234> oimon: i suspect the reason the blogs aren't going crazy is because the kind of people who write ranty blogs have not bothered upgrading
<oimon> ah nice, get your pidgin conversation window on the other desktop and unity won't let you switch to it via the launcher
<brobostigon> very weord results.
<brobostigon> weird*
<oimon> that bug is bad
<ali1234> i had heard of the problems with proprietary drivers but i didn't experience it until today, and i only installed 12.10 to test a bug
<oimon> why no fix?
<ali1234> because other things are more important
<ali1234> like integrated amazon search results
<oimon> UDS after release is bad because everyone has downtime while users squiirm
<oimon> out of the door =/= tools down
<ali1234> sure it does
<ali1234> even if it's a LTS release the chances of a SRU are small unless the bug is so trivial that nobody even noticed it was broken
<ali1234> and if it's a canonical project you can forget it because they don't have stable branches
<ali1234> my computer is 3 years old and the hard drive has a power on time of 2 years 9 months, with 217 power cycles, of which 80 were "emergency"
<ali1234> so i have an average uptime of 4 days and 36% of restarts were due to the machine crashing so bad i had to turn it off
<ali1234> or power cuts but i can only remember two of those
<jacobw> ali1234: running ubuntu?
<ali1234> yes
<directhex> Azelphur, http://www.reddit.com/r/linux_gaming/comments/12qs6z/steam_for_linux_its_here_deb_in_the_link/c6xf19p
<directhex> can't paste into beta :)
<Azelphur> directhex: fun
<Azelphur> directhex: you could always just come over to the other side of the relay :P
<ali1234> how did they manage to make games not work that already have linux ports?
<ali1234> fair enough you've hacked it, but still
<ali1234> also 12.04 or 12.10?
<Azelphur> 12.04
<directhex> 12.10 64-bit
<directhex> officially they support 12.04 32-bit
<directhex> some of the issues i've noted are due to 32/64 bit errors
<popey> 64-bit 12.04 works
<popey> but the indicator thing doesn't appear
<ali1234> it depends on dpkg?
<popey> ?
<ali1234> are they actually packaging things properly ?
<directhex> yeah, it uses dpkg in a bunch of places
<directhex> like to install deps
<ali1234> awesome
<ali1234> take that RPM fanboys
<directhex> BUT there are still errors in packaging
<popey> yeah, its not perfect
<ali1234> well even canonical can't package this stuff right so....... colour me entirely unsurprised?
<directhex> of course, i'm one of the half dozen most knowledgeable people for fixing up spacechem, but i have no access to the bug reporting forum :D
<ali1234> yes, and the same goes for those packages in ubuntu software center unfortunately
<ali1234> lol it puts an icon on your desktop
<ali1234> what is this, windows 95?
<ali1234> hmm how come it shows portal but not tf2 under "all games"
<ali1234> obviously it shows nothing under linux games
<ali1234> oh fun it's one of those customized-everything apps that manages it's own drawing and screen position
<ali1234> drag it around with the title bar and the mouse pointer goes out of sync with the window
<ali1234> mouse pointer hits the edge of the screen while the main window is still somewhere in the middle
<directhex> "free to play" games aren't shown under "all games" unless you have them installed unless you purchased them when they weren't free to play
<ali1234> i "purchased" portal when it was on special offer i guess that's why
<ali1234> special offer ie free
<ali1234> so that makes perfect sense
<ali1234> what exactly is the point of the launchpad webapp? what does it do other than put a shortcut to launchpad?
<AlanBell> HUD integration for various things
<ali1234> oh, like what?
<AlanBell> bugs, project menu and global actions apparently
<ali1234> i totally forgot the hud even exists
<ali1234> hud for bugs?
<ali1234> how do i use it?
<AlanBell> /usr/share/unity-webapps/userscripts/unity-webapps-launchpad/Launchpad.user.js
<AlanBell> hmm, it doesn't appear to do much for me
<AlanBell> webapps don't give much feedback to indicate they are working
<ali1234> doesn't seem to work here either
<AlanBell> I did some integration with openERP and the first thing that does is a notification to say that it is working, and it prints some stuff to the console so you can see it in firebug
<ali1234> it's kind of annoying that every page i go to wants to add an icon on the launcher now
<ali1234> and doesn't seem to do anything else
<AlanBell> oh, my mistake it isn't adding HUD items, it is adding launcher actions
<ali1234> as in right click?
<AlanBell> yeah, I had oodles of them a second ago and now they are gone
<ali1234> yeah same here
<ali1234> it seems to be just adding a random selection of things i've looked at recently
<AlanBell> yeah, I can't fathom what it has done either
<AlanBell> the content of the list varies fairly randomly according to what type of page you are on
<ali1234> maybe it makes more sense if you're a project maintainer?
<AlanBell> It couldn't make much less sense
<AlanBell> I can't figure out from the code how it is doing what it is doing
<AlanBell> https://bugs.launchpad.net/webapps-applications
<AlanBell> not sure what to file as a bug really
<AlanBell> "normally fairly clueful people can't figure out what on earth this webapp does, or is supposed to do"
<brunogirin> AlanBell: sounds like a fair bug description
<AlanBell> Bug #1075765
<lubotu3`> Launchpad bug 1075765 in WebApps: Applications "normally fairly clueful people can't figure out what on earth the launchpad webapp does, or is supposed to do" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1075765
<AlanBell> it is like so much stuff that gets introduced, it is so puzzling you can't even decide if it is broken or just designed by someone who is a little bit strange
<dogmatic69> anyone know why IMAP does not always return the emails?
<dogmatic69> I wrote some code to get emails and it works +- 50% of the time.
<ali1234> dogmatic69: need more info to debug that
<dogmatic69> ali1234: I am using sockets on php. Do for eg: socket_write('A0010 FETCH 1 ...') then socket_read()
<dogmatic69> not the exact method names, but you get the idea.
<dogmatic69> could the imap server require a delay?
<ali1234> i doubt it
<ali1234> probably you have a bug in your socket code
<ali1234> when you say it doesn't return the emails what exactly do you mean?
<dogmatic69> maybe. but strange that it works sometimes.
<dogmatic69> one second..
<ali1234> does it always return the same ones?
<ali1234> does it fail to return headers or message bodies?
<ali1234> if you have 10 emails does it return 5 of them?
<dogmatic69> it will return something like the following (\n is a literal line):
<ali1234> or does it sometimes return all and sometimes none?
<ali1234> if none, does it crash or just return nothing?
<dogmatic69> A0005 THE COMMAND\n\nA0005 OK\n
<ali1234> is it returning only unread?
<ali1234> i don't know IMAP protocol so there's no point showing me that stuff
<dogmatic69> instead of A0005 THE COMMAND\n.. all the email details ...\nA0005 OK\n
<dogmatic69> well it has the imap wrapper, but not the email
<ali1234> do you always get the same result for a given mailbox contents?
<dogmatic69> no. The mail box is constant right. It has a few emails and nothing new coming in...
<dogmatic69> sometimes the code will get the mails. other times not
<dogmatic69> and this is the raw socket read I am talking about.
<ali1234> can you post the code?
<ali1234> is it huge?
<dogmatic69> its quite large. class hierarchy is ImapSocket -> EmailSocket -> CakeSocket -> php socket
<ali1234> hmm
<ali1234> gonna be hard for me to run it then
<dogmatic69> I think the responses do not go in order...
<ali1234> probably
<dogmatic69> ye, it is not a stand alone script.
<ali1234> can you show some actual output, with private stuff censored?
<ali1234> have you read the IMAP RFC?
<ali1234> have you dumped the traffic with wireshark to see what is really happening?
<dogmatic69> I have been reading the RFC plenty
<dogmatic69> http://bin.cakephp.org/view/1042793680
<dogmatic69> It is not in order. I recall reading something like 'dont expect it to be in order'
<dogmatic69> you can see 'Write: A00x' and then the read is A00y
<dogmatic69> I will have to buffer this stuff somehow
<ali1234> IMAP server might be rate limited
<dogmatic69> I would get a warning / error about that
<ali1234> i dunno then. look at wireshark dump and identify the exact point where you think the server is doing something out of spec
<ali1234> at that point either you or the server did something wrong
<dogmatic69> ali1234: juggled some code around, done while(!$theDataIWant) {NOOP ... read()}
<dogmatic69> seems to do better now.
<ali1234> yeah
<dogmatic69> but 100 noop's before the data comes :/
<dogmatic69> will add a small delay also I think.
<dogmatic69> sometimes its instant. So the email was 'working' when the data returned in exactly the correct order.
<salzbrezelnnnnn> #politics
<ali1234> dogmatic69: yeah, you have to deal with delays and keep your protocol in sync. don't send until you got what you expected or after a reasonable timeout
<ali1234> this is why not many people implement their own sockets code any more
<dogmatic69> pop3 was relatively easy.
<dogmatic69> I am building an open source content management framework so relying on servers having the php imap extension is not available.
<dogmatic69> its also pretty crap
#ubuntu-uk 2012-11-07
<ali1234> i just discovered final fantasy 7 has a large mod community
<ali1234> trouble is it's all for the PC version so unlikely to work correctly in wine
<hamitron> don't you run the PC version in wine?
<ali1234> the PC version was famous for being extremely crashy to start with
<ali1234> so i never tried it
<ali1234> i only own the playstation version anyway
<hamitron> heh, I remember it crashing on me when a friend lent me it
<hamitron> so never bothered trying it
<hamitron> :)
<ali1234> how far did you get before it crashed?
<hamitron> it never started
<hamitron> :/
<ali1234> i've completed it in pcsx or epsxe
<ali1234> they're both basically perfect now
<hamitron> nice
<ali1234> you do have to use software graphics though
<hamitron> I keep meaning to try PSX emulators a go sometime again
<hamitron> as it is the last console I owned, so have a few games I used to love
<hamitron> :)
<ali1234> soul blade and puzzle fighter were the only two other games i had
<ali1234> well, the only ones i remember
<directhex> last psx emulator was fine with the correct plugins
<ali1234> yeah
<directhex> most modern emulators use a plugin system for audio, video, and controller support
<directhex> sadly an open-source emulator may be best served by closed source windows-only plugins
<ali1234> i never had much luck with the GPU accelerated plugins
<ali1234> and the software graphics is pretty much pixel accurate and runs at full speed anyway
<ali1234> and the high res you get fromGPU plugins doesn't look that good anyway, cos the models aren't good enough
<ali1234> anyway, if you only play one FF game, it should be 7, cos it's the best one.
<directhex> i've only ever half finished one FF game, that's the most i've done with the franchise
<ali1234> i've only finished 7
<ali1234> i nearly finished 9 then i hit a showstopper bug in pcsx. it got fixed months later but by then i forgot about it
<ali1234> but 7 stands out because of the ways it subverts the standard plot mechanic in these games
<Azelphur> directhex: I'm in the steam Linux beta now
<Azelphur> :D
<ali1234> how'd you manage that?
<directhex> Azelphur, you didn't get your buddy directhex in? :'(
<Azelphur> I know valve people
<Azelphur> directhex: sorry, that'd be pushing it :P
<directhex> ali1234, i half finished 6, then quit when i hit an unfinishable blocker based on design flaws
<ali1234> wow, really? a bug in the actual game?
 * Azelphur is installing tf2
<ali1234> do tell. cos that's rare for an oldschool console game. unless it was the recent remake i guess...
<directhex> one of the characters has a special skill where they throw an inventory item at the enemy
<ali1234> you threw an important key item at the enemy?
<directhex> at one stage in the game, you split into several groups. managed to throw a plot-essential item from a different group when playing as the group with the tosspot in
<directhex> multiple groups; shared inventory :p
<Azelphur> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/screenshots/2012/November/2012-11-07-011145_1000x660_scrot.png \o/
<ali1234> key items usually go in a different inventory section, they do in 7, 8, 9 anyway. and you can't use them anywhere except where they are needed
<ali1234> but yeah that is a bit bad
<ali1234> whenever i play a RPG that has ethers for restoring MP i always think of that scene in fear and loathing in las vegas
<directhex> squaresoft peaked when they shipped chrono trigger
<ali1234> yes
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Stuart Langridge] Purple map, 2012 edition - http://kryogenix.org/days/2012/11/07/purple-map-2012-edition
<popey> morning all
<theopensourcerer> Morning all. Glas that the US managed to not elect Romney.
<theopensourcerer> \Glad
<Azelphur> popey: hi, I got in the Linux beta :D
 * Azelphur is happy now
<popey> :)
<popey> ditto theopensourcerer
<Azelphur> popey: you have dual screen right?
<popey> ya
<Azelphur> do you get this issue with big picture mode? https://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/screenshots/2012/November/2012-11-07-063029_5120x1440_scrot.png
<popey> i have seen that in the past, yes
<popey> not got two screens on this machine right now
<Azelphur> fun, yea I've seen it on a few things before, I can't run games in full screen either, it's not a major deal though as noborder and windowed mode work fine
<Azelphur> flash player did that for ages, but recently it got fixed
<MooDoo> morning all
<diplo> Morning all
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<dwatkins> hiya brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning dwatkins
<dwatkins> I'm in a good mood today, a certain country didn't destroy my faith in humanity
<brobostigon> :)
<brobostigon> yes, obama won.
<danfish> morning
<brobostigon> morning danfish
<danfish> stayed up late watching the election. Feel somewhat tired today
<danfish> anyone using amazon glacier with ubuntu?
<dwatkins> looks handy, but I have about 500 GB to backup, which might take a while at 1 MBit.
<JamesTait> Good morning all! :)
<brobostigon> morning JamesTait :)
<diplo> Blimey dead in 'ere today
<SuperMatt> everyone is playing with the steam beta
<drhodesmumby> I'm not. D:
<SuperMatt> well maybe you should
<SuperMatt> I'm waiting for my lunch break
<diplo> I'm not :(
<diplo> I was away at sign up
<SuperMatt> you still can fill in the survey
<SuperMatt> and you'll still be in with a chance in the next round
<SuperMatt> not that it matters because it appears anyone can use it anyway
<diplo> yeah just read that
<drhodesmumby> I'm not even in Linux at the moment. :-(
<diplo> Will take a look for the survey later
<diplo> Oooh MS are closing msn messenger next year, I totally missed that peice of news
<popey> you would have known this if you'd listened to UUPC last night :D
<popey> first with all the news :)
<popey> "first"
<diplo> I'm behind with uupc by about 6-7 episodes!
<SuperMatt> I'm glad they're switching to skype really
<popey> gosh
<SuperMatt> finally, we can all talk cross platform
<Dave2> It's disappointing, it will be one less protocol for people to not talk to me on
<diplo> Actually let me correct that, I haven't watched/listened to ANY podcasts in a fair few months
<Dave2> SuperMatt: MSN had an XMPP interface, Skype does not
<SuperMatt> I know, but at least now we have an app which is open source form the off
<diplo> I wish all my friends would use google chat or something
<SuperMatt> wait
<SuperMatt> not open source
<SuperMatt> I mean cross platform
<Dave2> But there are no third party clients that can properly talk to Skype, as far as I'm aware.
<Dave2> There are loads that can talk to MSN.
<AlanBell> open protocols > cross platform apps
<diplo> ejabberd++ :)
<diplo> Been playing with that recently to add it into our ERP system
<Dave2> The fact that there's a native client is nice, but it's been neglected, and things like bitlbee have to rely on some Skype binary
 * AlanBell logs into skype for the first time this month
<dwatkins> I can't remember the last time I used Skype.
<AlanBell> nobody ever contacts me on it
<Dave2> I'm normally signed in
<Dave2> (Not the same as using it though.)
<AlanBell> it was popular 5 years ago
<popey>   PID USER      PR  NI  VIRT  RES  SHR S %CPU %MEM    TIME+  COMMAND
<popey>  6145 alan      20   0  737m 176m  22m R   30  2.2  86:28.49 chromium-browse
<popey> :(
<dwatkins> I disabled it because of the constant login and logout messages I was seeing.
<AlanBell> well, it is probably still popular. Maybe *I* was popular 5 years ago.
 * Dave2 has never used Skype all that much
<popey> dwatkins, i turn those off
<dwatkins> I was just thinking there should be an option for that, popey
<popey> its the first thing I disable
<Daviey> I used to use skype quite heavily in 2003-2005?
<diplo> We used to use it for work webcam meetings but been using hangouts more recently as half of us use linux
<SuperMatt> I'd quite like everyone to switch to google talk too :(
<dwatkins> I use google talk pretty much exclusively, if people aren't on it, they simply can't chat to me :)
<drhodesmumby> I switch between Google Talk and Skype, although Talk's increasing.
<AlanBell> Daviey: yeah, around that time it was the first thing that did voip and video reliably across assorted network configurations
<Daviey> right
<theopensourcerer> This looks fun: http://gamelab.mit.edu/games/a-slower-speed-of-light/ Shame it's only on Windows/MAC
<mgdm> s/MAC/Mac/
<directhex> theopensourcerer, unity3d. they could rebuild in unity 4 & ship a linux binary if they wanted to
<dogmatic69> Chrome memory usage: 1.7GB :/
<awilkins> Using memory is good, as long as you have some left
<awilkins> Using less is better, true
<awilkins> But not if it means things are slower
<mungojerry> chrome has killed my DE many times
<mungojerry> in fact, i think it's why i've had to switch to lxde
<awilkins> Are we talking Chrome or Chromium?
<mungojerry> on a fast and RAMified machine
<mungojerry> same probs with either
<awilkins> I don't seem to have that problem (quad core i7, 8GB of RAM)
<awilkins> Most of my RAM consumption comes from Eclipse :-(
<mungojerry> tend to have around 30-40 tabs
<mungojerry> and use some IBM stuff
<SuperMatt> I can't stand to have that many
<mungojerry> it's work
<mungojerry> (the nature of my) work
<SuperMatt> I think the most I ever have open would be about 15, but I tend to cull about every hour or so
<mungojerry> see this? https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/ActiveDirectory
<SuperMatt> I can, yes
<awilkins> Yeah, Ubuntu should aim for that too
<mungojerry> big time
<SuperMatt> agreed
<awilkins> The other thing it needs to sort out is HTTP proxy support
<awilkins> I have an idea for that
<SuperMatt> there should come a point when we can give users a choice over which OS they want, and it doesn't matter what the servers are running
<awilkins> Many corporate networks use PAC scripts but most apps besides browsers can't understand them
<awilkins> So I reckon the OS should run a proxy, and if you provide a PAC script, it configures that proxy, and everything else can just use dumb HTTP through it
<popey> theopensourcerer, it almost works in wine :)
<awilkins> This way you could use ISA with NTLM / SSPI or SSH + SOCKS or whatever and everything would work
<popey> there's an app that does that already
<awilkins> I don't think even Empathy works with PAC scripts (directing to SOCKS) and that's a core app - I've installed Pidgin just so I can run it through tsocks
<awilkins> popey, Are you thinking of ntlmaps?
<awilkins> Python program
<popey> ya
<popey> http://ntlmaps.sourceforge.net/
<popey> well, does part of it
<awilkins> I use it on occasion but it's not perfect
<awilkins> Everything should be able to use your global proxy config
<popey> directhex, how did you know it was made with Unity 3D?
<awilkins> But until everything can use a PAC script, that won't happen, because it just hands the PAC URL to applications if it's configured
<awilkins> Much better for the OS to take the responsibility of interpreting PAC scripts and authentication, and  provide a dumb HTTP proxy across a local socket for apps to use, or even make it transparent for those apps that don't understand proxies at all
<BigRedS> awilkins: but everything should also be able to have its own
<awilkins> It's own config? It's own proxy arrangements?
<BigRedS> yeah
<BigRedS> I'm not sure of context here, but it infurates me that so much these days requires that I set up a global proxy
<awilkins> BigRedS, Well, that would be doable, most things that are aware of proxies and aware that the OS has proxy settings also have a manual option
<awilkins> On the flipside, a lot of programs are not aware of proxies, and of those that are, only a subset understand proxies other than HTTP, or PAC scripts
<awilkins> e.g. Ubuntu One - you'd think it was a core, flagship product, but I gave up on it and stuck with Dropbox because it doesn't understand PAC scripts or SOCKS proxies.
<awilkins> Empathy, likewise, doesn't work with a PAC script
<awilkins> So I install Pidgin and run it using tsocks
<ali1234> empathy doesn't support proxies at all
<ali1234> pidgin doesn't need tsocks - it has socks support built in
<awilkins> All the default apps that communicate via a network should work with all the possible proxy configurations you can feed into the OS proxy settings
<awilkins> Including SOCKS and PAC
<ali1234> probably doesn't support PAC but then i don't know what that is
<ali1234> is PAC like internet explorer automatic proxy config?
<awilkins> It's basically Javascript with a set library that lets you discover proxy config
<ali1234> anyway, i use pidgin because of socks5 proxy support that i use with ssh
<awilkins> IE auto proxy config is just "get me a PAC script from http://wpad/wpad.dat and configure the output from it"
<awilkins> PAC was originally a Netscape thing
<awilkins> One problem is that if you configure a PAC script as your proxy config it just hands the URL to the application when it asks for proxy config. If your app doesn't understand how to run Javascript PAC files, tough luck
<awilkins> Makes sense to take that and get the OS to do it and just return the result
<awilkins> But! PAC scripts are also used for load balancing. So makes even more sense to get the OS to run it's own proxy, and tell apps to use that, and the proxy runs the PAC script
<awilkins> And even better, if you have an app that i) doesn't do proxies or ii) doesn't understand all proxy types or iii ) Doesn't do the kind of auth the proxy demands
<awilkins> The OS proxy takes care of that and you just ask for sockets normally and it redirects them
<awilkins> Like tsocks, but more
<awilkins> Roll in modules for things like NTLM / SSPI (windows proxy auth) etc.
<awilkins> Everything benefits, Empathy works, Ubuntu One works, Ubuntu works much better in a corporate environment, 4) Profit, etc
<awilkins> With that kind of setup, Ubuntu One would beat Dropbox for ease of use, because Dropbox doesn't understand PAC scripts (despite there being Python libraries available for it and AFAIK the Dropbox client is written in Python)
<ali1234> i don't want every piece of software to use the proxy
<ali1234> i only want software which is blocked by a firewall to use it
<awilkins> ali1234, So you make it configurable on a per-app basis - we're having to mess with things to get them to use the proxy, so turn off the messing otherwise
<awilkins> Or write a PAC script that returns "DIRECT" for certain ports and addresses
<awilkins> (and presumably have a wee graphical widget for writing PAC scripts)
<ali1234> the thing is it's already configurable on a per-app basis, and look how well that works
<ali1234> i do like the idea of configuring proxy on a per port basis, almost firewall style but in reverse
<awilkins> ali1234, The problem isn't the apps that DO have proxy config, it's the ones that lack features
<awilkins> LIke even knowing about proxies at all
<awilkins> Or not supporting SOCKS
<ali1234> yeah, or the feature to tell it NOT to use the proxy
<awilkins> ali1234, That would be part of the OS proxy feature
<awilkins> ali1234, I'm thinking you'd only turn it on for things that don't have a "respect the OS proxy" setting in the first place
<ali1234> sounds complicted
<awilkins> I think it reduces the global level of complexity - no more separate config for all those apps, no more pestering them with bug fixes to include SOCKS support
<awilkins> No more apps that don't work because they don't grok PAC scripts and you have to read it and configure them manually and then change it when you move offices
<ali1234> it puts all the complexity in one place
<ali1234> there is infact already software that does this
<ali1234> it's a socket wrapper library. when program asks for a socket it transparently sends it through the proxy you configured
<awilkins> ali1234, Yup, there are things like ntlmaps that will do Windows proxy auth for you and be a local proxy (but no PAC scripts)
<awilkins> I think what it lacks is a single, standard, integrated version that works with the rest of the desktop platform
<awilkins> Integration and simplicity is one of the big things that Microsoft scores points on
<awilkins> And Apple
<ali1234> lol
<awilkins> Every time you go "Ah, but for THIS app, you do THIS" to a newbie, their affection for Linux dies inside a little
<ali1234> ever tried to connect an apple machine to a corporate VPN?
<awilkins> ali1234, Ok, I didn't mean specifically on proxy support for Apple
<ali1234> that simplicity is not a positive aspect
<awilkins> I just meant the "just works" impression you get from their products
<ali1234> i've never got that impression
<awilkins> (which I don't own or use, so I could be wrong)
<ali1234> i get the impression it "just works" as long as all you want to do is hand more money over to apple
<AlanBell> they are just surrounded by a reality distortion field
<ali1234> other than that it is basically designed to fail
<awilkins> Well, it may just be the way they sell them, but it's obviously attractive or it wouldn't sell :-)
<awilkins> Arrgh, why does the VPN configuration forget my group password even though it's in the configuration entry?
<ali1234> i dunno. ever tried to connect a windows 8 machine to a VPN btw?
<awilkins> Seems to be a regression of a bug from 2007 *headdesk*
<ali1234> they made the wizard really hard to find
<awilkins> ali1234, No, we have Cisco VPN
<ali1234> if you search in the metro thing you won't find it
<awilkins> ali1234, And we're just migrating to Win7 at present, so most of us are still on XP
<ali1234> you have to search for control panel first and then go through the old style interface
<ali1234> i only work with small businesses
<awilkins> I work for the NHS
<awilkins> The central IT project
<awilkins> We only ditched IE6 this year
<ali1234> businesses with <20 people where they use whatever software came with the laptop they each personally decided to buy
<awilkins> Heh, we have a huge IT department that wants us to move to a model where we only install software they approve of
<ali1234> you have it easy with your centrally managed systems
<awilkins> And getting a new app approved costs Â£2,000
<ali1234> BYOD is a PITA
<ali1234> i have to learn everything
<ali1234> i can't say "sorry that's not supported"
<awilkins> Agreed, but locked-down-to-the-max is really counter-innovative
<awilkins> Want to try processing your data with Cygwin and some shell scripts / awk / grep / sed? Sorry, you're not allowed Cygwin.
<ali1234> ha
<ali1234> i wish the people i support even knew what cygwin was
<awilkins> I work in stealth mode - because my Linux system isn't detectable by their Windows management software, it doesn't exists.
<ali1234> normally i get requests like "dave has made this cool excel spreadsheet and it doesn't work on my mac, can you convert it?"
<awilkins> "No, do it as a LibreOffice Calc sheet and then it will work on either" probably isn't a palatable answer
<ali1234> not at all
<awilkins> Bloody VBA
<awilkins> *spit*
<ali1234> it's not even the VBA
<awilkins> As the technical crew, we get all the VBA / Access / Excel abominations that people think up delivered to our door in a basket with a note that says "Please will you care for this application and raise it as your own"
<awilkins> Sharepoint *spit*
<awilkins> Whoever thought up the great idea to make Sharepoint support Access as a front end should be killed.
<awilkins> Sharepoint data tables have one numeric format, and it's floating point.
<awilkins> Foreign keys - what's that??
<ali1234> yeah  i don't even have to deal with that because none of the companies i have worked for has even had a central server of any kind
<ali1234> unless you count their hosted email
<ali1234> which they very much use as a file sharing platform
<ali1234> passing around a word document with annotations is commonplace
<awilkins> Yup
<awilkins> I hate that
<ali1234> then they send it to me and i ruin it by saving it in open office. lol
<awilkins> As soon as you mail documents around, it's a revision control nightmare
<ali1234> not to worry, they have 1,000,000 slightly different copies attached to various emails
<awilkins> And they try and design things this way *sob*
<ali1234> well the alternative is to try to coral all their different platforms onto a VPN or something
<ali1234> with zero budget of course
<ali1234> the good side of this is they are very receptive to open source solutions
<ali1234> as long as they don't have to actually use or know about them, basically
<ali1234> so a linux VPN + fileserver is fine, as long as it works with every version of windows ever made, and mac, and all smartphones and tablets
<ali1234> one good thing about this model is then never get a total system outage due to a virus on the network
<ali1234> it's so mixed that something always keeps working
<awilkins> Heheh
<ali1234> but the downside is you can never be sure what will be working today
<awilkins> Whereas we get stupid-assed decisions like "Hey, lets use Exchange as an email server for a million users!"
<ali1234> yeah they loooooove exchange
<ali1234> cos it works everywhere
<awilkins> Mail quotas numbered in megabytes are so last century.
<ali1234> but with few users it's not a probleem
<ali1234> and it's hosted anyway so even if it was it would be someone else's problem
<awilkins> Well, we have the new cabinet office directive to consider OSS solutions wherever possible and justify why we are not using them now
<awilkins> Well, open data standards
<awilkins> Heck , they even published the document as ODT (alongside Word Doc and PDF)
<awilkins> http://www.cabinetoffice.gov.uk/sites/default/files/resources/Open-Standards-Principles-FINAL.odt
<awilkins> Notable that it's the smallest file
<ali1234> no plain text?
<ali1234> html?
<awilkins> No
<ali1234> boo
<twager> msg NickServ identify twager
<SuperMatt> oops
<SuperMatt> you might want to change your password
<ali1234> and also get an irc client that understands services
<mungojerry> hunter2
<popey> :)
<BigRedS> What do people use for distributed and offline-accessible todo lists? I've been using tomboy/sparkleshare for a while, but I seem to spend more time making it resemble a todo list than I do getting stuff done
<mungojerry> i use tomboy, but there's GTG ?
 * popey uses tomboy
 * BigRedS looks at GTG
<ali1234> "a notepad and pencil"
<BigRedS> yeah, it got wet
<mungojerry> http://gtg.fritalk.com/
<BigRedS> getting a new one might turn out to be simplest...
<ali1234> i'm actually using tinyissue for this
<ali1234> https://github.com/mikelbring/tinyissue
<ali1234> it really is tiny
<ali1234> also i sent in a patch and it was accepted in under 10 minutes
<BigRedS> Oooh
<BigRedS> But I'd like an easily-offline-accessible one
<mungojerry> android phone?
<ali1234> well offline *or* distributed. pick one
<BigRedS> yeah, but that's still online  :)
<BigRedS> I want both! Basically, Tomboy but with priority/ordering capabilities
<ali1234> for offline use a notepad
<AlanBell> HTML5 local storage
<mungojerry> does owncloud do it?
<BigRedS> I mean, anything I can point at a filesystem's good
<mungojerry> seems to do everything
<ali1234> also, if you write in the notepad in pencil, it will survive getting a bit damp
<BigRedS> 'cause that I can distribute with sparkelshare or something, but I'm less sure about gitting MySQL data files... :)
<popey> BigRedS,  a text document in dropbox / u1?
<ali1234> this ^
<BigRedS> yeah, I think that'll be it
<mungojerry> this is same as tomboy
<ali1234> but not dropbox/u1. use git, because then it's actually distributed
<BigRedS> I just stumbled across todo.txt which is basically that but markdowned
<BigRedS> yeah, I'm using sparkleshare now
<popey> well, dropbox/u1 means you can easily use phone/tablet/pc/web etc
<BigRedS> (though not really markdown)
<popey> as they have clients for most platforms
<awilkins> Freemind + Dropbox for me
<ali1234> got a symbian u1 client yet?
<popey> pass
<popey> aquarius, ^
<ali1234> photo sync is actually the only thing i use
<ali1234> phones tend to not have plain text editors anyway
<ali1234> so you could put your todo list in it and get it on the phone, but not view or edit it
<ali1234> unless you can find an app and seriously who can be bothered with that?
<BigRedS> most of what's on my todo list requires a computer of some sort anyway
<BigRedS> as in one with a keyboard and a proper screen
<ali1234> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.madgag.agit&hl=en
<ali1234> yes, very much so
<ali1234> and in my case, an internet connection
<ali1234> either that or it requires none of the above in which case the notepad works fine
<BigRedS> yeah, I suppose those are two distinct enough lists. Todo.txt looks fairly ideal, actually. Really tempted to write a bunch of scripts for talking to calendars and stuff
<ali1234> i'm thinking of writing a android todo list that uses plaintext/markdown/git as a backend
<ali1234> but i probably won't do it
<BigRedS> haha
<BigRedS> If I've a volume that I can see mounted in the GUI file browser thing, how do I find out which device it is and where it's actually mounted? I'm clicking around a mounted SD card but /media/avi/ is empty....
<SuperMatt> which version are you running?
<SuperMatt> you can find out where something is mounted by typing mount at the command line
<BigRedS> I know
<BigRedS> But I don't know what Gnome calls that
<BigRedS> 1210
<BigRedS> 12.10
<SuperMatt> it may be in /run/user/BigRedS
<BigRedS> I think that's one thing that's been steadily getting worse for a few releases. You used to be able to do it by going back and forward a few times and eventually ending up having browsed to the mount point rather than the //computer/SDCard or whatever
<BigRedS>  /run? Nothing there... I've just pulled the sd card out now, though, and there's an obvious sda so I can do it the old fashioned way :)
<SuperMatt> I'm actually confused about what you're doing :P
<BigRedS> When I have a removable volume plugged in it shows up as some human-friendly name in the file browser. I want to know which actual device this is. Without unpluging it and plugging it in again and watching dmesg or stuff like that
<BigRedS> it *must* be buried somewhere in this GUI, surely
<SuperMatt> yeah, you should be able to find it in disks
<diplo> aha, was about to suggest dmesg
<SuperMatt> as in the application called disks
<diplo> yeah disks was my next one
<BigRedS> Ah, I can get the mountpoint out of the properties apparently
<BigRedS> hahahaha, no
<BigRedS> they've all got '/media/avi' as their location, but none say which directory under that they're mounted at
<SuperMatt> it'll be named with the Volume name
<SuperMatt> as listed in the properties
<BigRedS> yeah, they're in disks, but disks doesn't use the names that the file browser does
<diplo> that sucks :/
<BigRedS> ah yeah, I can click through each device and check for partitions on it to see which one has that label
<BigRedS> Suddenly, D:/ isn't looking so bad
<BigRedS> at least there everything uses the same name for it...
<awilkins> I find labelling filesystems helps a lot
<awilkins> Instead of some short hex ID the mountpoints then get named for their label
<BigRedS> do they?
<BigRedS> I gave up on using labels because everything seemed to prefer UUIDs
<awilkins> So I have /media/MEDIA /media/BIGTHUMB /media/tachikoma etc.
<BigRedS> hm, maybe time to revisit that assumption
<BigRedS> hm! So it does!
<awilkins> Bah. Rhythmbox has gotten worse in Quantal, if that's possible
<awilkins> At least Pulseaudio became stabler and doesn't have a spazz and garble all the samples played through it when you randomly hop around in an AVI file
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Ubuntu UK Podcast] S05E19  Random Rhymes and Rambles - http://podcast.ubuntu-uk.org/2012/11/07/s05e19-random-rhymes-and-rambles/
<MartijnVdS> \o/ podcast
<samuel> helllloooo
<AlanBell> hello
<samuel> yay!
<samuel> anyone here testing steam?
<AlanBell> ali1234: your cock a leekie soup made it to the podcast :)
<AlanBell> samuel: some people are, I am not really into games
<samuel> i got the client installed but as i'm not enrolled i cannot download any games yet, still its handy for getting on the client to chat
<samuel> u know what... steam supports my sound devices better on linux than windows
<samuel> pulse audio is good for something!
<samuel> i expect you dont use unity either AlanBell :P
<samuel> xfce perhaps
<AlanBell> I use unity
<samuel> what do you think of the new previews?
<directhex> samuel, you can bypass the enrollment check & play any of the games which you own & have a linux version
<directhex> http://i.imgur.com/BUOK9.png
<samuel> hi directhex, i can get on the client, view my library, browse the store etc, i heard that l4d was on the beta but i cant download it it just has a link to the gaming hub
<directhex> l4d is not in the beta AFAIK
<directhex> it's one they were originally testing, but it's not part of this beta
<directhex> http://www.reddit.com/r/linux_gaming/comments/12qs6z/steam_for_linux_its_here_deb_in_the_link/c6xf19p shows the status of games right now for people bypassing the bets (e.g. i hear SS3 works for real beta testers)
<samuel> thanks so much for the link
<samuel> ah but they have tf2! however i need to clear some hard drive space :P or maybe just buy a new hard drive for my laptop
<samuel> think i will have much luck running it on an e450 and 4gb ram?
<directhex> the "real" beta games actually require you to be in the beta
<directhex> i.e. tf2 and serious sam 3
<ali1234> AlanBell: well someone else came up with that specific search term
<ali1234> this idea that the design is intentional bothers me
<ali1234> because the filter clearly is matching against a specific set of patterns
<ali1234> the idea that adding a space means "i really want adult content" seems pretty far out
<ali1234> since it matches a specific set of words, why not match those words and then put up a message "it looks like you are searching for adult content. do you want to see it? yes/no/never show this again"
 * awilkins steams
<awilkins> "Steam is having trouble connecting to the Steam servers."
<directhex> awilkins, when you try to do what?
<awilkins> Log in
<directhex> hm
<awilkins> This is a 64-bit machine, mind
<awilkins> I have a feeling that may be a problem
<awilkins> Although the deb package obviously didn't
<ali1234> 64 bit works for me
<awilkins> Got a steam guard code this time
<ali1234> even big screen mode
<awilkins> But still server response is off
<awilkins> Hmm, that was odd, it had an error but still worked :-)
<awilkins> And the window chrome coordinates dont match the screen position of the mouse
<awilkins> e.g. try to drag the scrollbar and it selects text
<awilkins> to the left of it
<ali1234> yeah i get that
<ali1234> try dragging it around
<awilkins> Resizing window fixes it
<awilkins> "Log in with an enrolled account to continue" *phut*
<directhex> awilkins, you can easily work around that
<awilkins> So I gather, looking at the reddit page
<directhex> here's the cutest: run it, so it appears in your unity dock. right click, click "lock to launcher". then when it gives you an error, click ok. your still have a steam icon in your dock. now instead of left clicking it, right click and pick *any* option. library, friends, store, whatever
 * awilkins clicks on install TF2 link and it gets to the "Install" dialog
<directhex> tf2 will not install if you're not in the beta
<awilkins> Preparing
<directhex> the steam servers will issue a 403 when your client tries to download the linux binaries, resulting in a "servers too busy" error
<awilkins> But it gets you into client
<awilkins> Osmos is apparently all I have registered
 * awilkins tries big picture
<directhex> big picture works, although it's super slow to start
<awilkins> Tis going here
<awilkins> v.pretty
<ali1234> it wasn't slow for me
<awilkins> Not integrated with my XBOX controller  though :P
<awilkins> Bah, FTL has a Linux version
<awilkins> It should work
<directhex> i have no comments on which games work unless they;re listed on http://www.reddit.com/r/linux_gaming/comments/12qs6z/steam_for_linux_its_here_deb_in_the_link/c6xf19p with my name next to them
<AlanBell> ali1234: I actually like the way the filter is implemented
<ali1234> it's too opaque
<AlanBell> it is very unobtrusive
<awilkins> "No intenet connection"
<awilkins> When trying to install Osmos
<awilkins> Hrrmph
<awilkins> Client refuses to be dragged off screen 0 - probably why the chrome is "off" until you resize it
<AlanBell> it acts like a regular uncensored search (censorship is bad m'kay)
<aquarius> ali1234: hey. There's no symbian client for Ubuntu One as far as I'm aware, but... does Symbian run Qt/QML/Python apps? If it does, then taking my N9 client and adapting it should be relatively easy
<ali1234> aquarius: nokia owned Qt for a bit and was the first smartphone to officially support python... they also made their own python/qt bindings but both versions are fully supported. so yes, very much so
<aquarius> ali1234: that's what I thought. (Sorry, I don't know much about Symbian; the last time I used a Symbian phone was an E60, about eight years ago, and that had a Python interpreter.) So, someone with Symbian knowledge and Python + JavaScript knowledge could take my N9 client and port it relatively easily, I'd have thought.
<ali1234> should be...
<aquarius> ali1234: there's a few n9-specific things in there; the largest ones are talking to the N9's "transfer UI" (a system-wide download progress indicator), and that the QML uses Meego-specific components.
<ali1234> ah yeah
<aquarius> But all the *code* to connect to U1, download things, etc should work fine.
<ali1234> the good old platform specific components in meego
<ali1234> in QML i mean... one for each platform, all totally different
<aquarius> It'd be a port, not just a case of copying files, I'm afraid, but I suspect that the stuff I did would get someone, say, 60% of the way there.
<ali1234> probably further actually
<aquarius> alternatively, for a slightly hackier approach, u1ftp (which runs as an ftp server and connects to U1 on the back end, allowing you to "connect" to U1 with an ftp client) is pure Python with no UI components, so that might be another approach; install u1ftp on the phone and run it, and then connect to localhost:2121 with any existing Symbian FTP client.
<ali1234> hmm... no
<aquarius> that's obviously hackier, but it's probably easier to get up and running. :)
<ali1234> all i want is my photos auto uploading, like they do on android
<aquarius> a.
<aquarius> ah.
<ali1234> don't use any other U1 features
<aquarius> u1fn9 (my N9 client) doesn't do auto-photo-upload.
<aquarius> I wanted it too, but I didn't want to write a long-running Python daemon
<ali1234> at the moment i carry my C7 as a phone and my android phone as a camera/tablet/maps
<ali1234> and the android is tethered to the C7
<ali1234> on wifi
<aquarius> so you'd need to implement it as a new thing. It'd be *fairly* trivial to do, though; a daemon which gets signalled somehow by the OS when a new photo arrives (I don't know how Symbian would do that) followed by a simple HTTP PUT request with oauth signing to upload the photo.
<ali1234> aquarius:  seen this?: http://ubi.garage.maemo.org/
<aquarius> ali1234: I have. I dropped off a note to the author a while back, but didn't hear back.
<ali1234> quite possibly he's totally disillusioned with nokia
<aquarius> it is possible. I have something of a similar feeling.
<ali1234> every one does :(
<ali1234> last update was somewhat recent though, so who knows
<ball> Evenin'
<popey> lo
<directhex> jesus tapdancing christ what grade of obnoxious moron puts a "good, not evil" clause in their software license?
<mgdm> I've come across that but I forget what it was
<shauno> reminds me of itunes' "nuclear facilities" clause in their eula
<mgdm> shauno: Java has that too, I think
<directhex> mgdm, anything json-related. it's the json license
<directhex> MIT with an added non-free clause about good and evil
<mgdm> ah, hmm. I'm sure there's something else, too
<ali1234> json?
<ali1234> aren't there multiple independent implementations under different licenses?
<directhex> http://codesearch.debian.net/search?q=The+Software+shall+be+used+for+Good%2C+not+Evil
<directhex> every hit is non-Free & needs to be pulled
<ali1234> i agree
<popey> oh dear
<popey> what loon put that in there?
<ali1234> http://wonko.com/post/jsmin-isnt-welcome-on-google-code
<mgdm> Oh dear
<mgdm> didn't realise we'd used that code in PHP
<directhex> they seem to think it's funny
<directhex> srsly guys, wake me when you hit puberty Â¬_Â¬
<zleap> lol
<ali1234> http://lists.debian.org/debian-legal/2010/03/msg00064.html
<ali1234> actually i think i remember this being on slashdot
<popey> yeah, about etherpad?
<popey> "Google released the source code for Etherpad under the Apache License version 2.0 on December 17, 2009.[14] Subsequently, Google asked the Etherpad code maintainers to remove JSMin from its code tree due to a clause in its license stating, "The Software shall be used for Good, not Evil," which is not compatible with the open source licenses allowed on Google Code.[15]
<popey> "
<popey> oh, its in android
<Azelphur> haha
<popey> http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1496760
<AlanBell> that is a textbook example of a non-free clause
<shauno> http://lists.debian.org/debian-legal/2010/03/msg00071.html   claims the implementation in v8 (which that android link appears to reference), is a clean implementation
<Azelphur> Anyone else who uses faster payments transactions with bank regularly, does your bank display a clause when you send money that it may be held for up to 2 days for a fraud check?
<Azelphur> Santander just did that to me and it caused a buttload of problems, really annoying.
<czajkowski> aquirius: they've seemingly deleted all their work after adding another machine, https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-uk/2012-November/035358.html
<czajkowski> aquarius: ^^^
<daubers> \o/ RepRap prints!!!
<ali1234> oh dear.
<popey> i bet he added a second machine, and right clicked the ubuntu one folder and said "sync this"
<popey> uploading nothing
 * popey replies
<ali1234> this is why i only use U1 as some kind of magical pipe for copying files between machines
<ali1234> copy file in one end, move it out the other
<ali1234> popey: that's not an unreasonable thing to do
<directhex> AlanBell, yes, it's *the* textbook example
<AlanBell> why wouldn't you expect that to work?
<ali1234> only unreasonable people like me would expect that to be broken
<directhex> DFSG clause 6
<directhex> No Discrimination Against Fields of Endeavor
<directhex> The license must not restrict anyone from making use of the program in a specific field of endeavor. For example, it may not restrict the program from being used in a business, or from being used for genetic research.
<directhex> evil is a field of endeavor
<shauno> is lazieness good or evil?  because most my code is born of lazy :/
<AlanBell> https://plus.google.com/118095276221607585885/posts/13shsS2bAEY
<ali1234> attempting to define good or evil for the author of this license is pointless because their whole point is "hurrr, if you don't know you must be evil!"
<shauno> interesting.  "works at paypal".  I wonder if he's dual-licensed it for them
<popey> i doubt they care
<ali1234> so basically his contribution is he wrote a retarded license to make himself feel good, do nothing to prevent "evil" and cause a lot of problems for everyone else
<ali1234> well, gee, thanks
<ali1234> what an absolute nob
<AlanBell> that might not be in relation to json code, could be anything really, just was someone who uses it and feels good about doing so
<ali1234> AlanBell: what do you mean?
<AlanBell> ali1234: I have no idea who that person is, or whether they wrote the json license
<ali1234> he did
<shauno> popey: companies that size end up caring whether they want to or not, because they've got so many lawyers trying to keep themselves employed
<ali1234> he's the moron who started the whole thing
<AlanBell> ah, he did
<AlanBell> mupet
<shauno> eg, http://news.cnet.com/8301-30685_3-10422338-264.html   ^F IBM  (and it's on topic)
<ali1234> even if he makes an except and allows it to be used for good and evil it still isn't free
<ali1234> because what about uses which are neutral?
<AlanBell> so for something like PHP5 which includes it in on file
<directhex> it's a clause designed to mock users who obey licenses
<directhex> so why obey the rest of it (the MIT parts)?
<ali1234> how do you obey the MIT parts?
<AlanBell> /ext/json/JSON_parser.c (actually a couple of others too)
<AlanBell> if we were to write a clean implementation of that file, and patch the clean one over the non-free one
<shauno> I more found it interesting that places that can afford lawyers, do take it seriously.  (and that he treats the whole thing as the best joke he's ever heard)
<AlanBell> would that be allowed as the non-free one is still in the source package?
<ali1234> shauno: yes, that's why i think he's a nob. beacuse he thinks he's really clever for doing this.
<AlanBell> or is it a case of dropping php altogether
<AlanBell> or patching out that file and dropping json support, would that be acceptable?
<ali1234> AlanBell: i think it would be, because nothing says you can't distribute non-free and free side by side. in fact it's explicitly allowed
<shauno> or pushing said reimplementation upstream
<ali1234> you just can't "link" them
<directhex> ali1234, by placing a clear copyright notice where required
<AlanBell> shauno: pushing upstream would clearly be the right way to solve it, I am curious about the alternatives
<ali1234> directhex: besides, that's exactly what he wants. because then he can say "ell, GPL people don't follow other licenses so why should i follow the GPL?"
<directhex> well, the question is whether the evil clause is a redistribution issue or an and-user issue
<directhex> if it's a redistribution issue, i.e. "this file may not be redistributed by evildoers", then the file must be dropped from a modified source tarball, and the replacement injected either here or in debian/patches
<directhex> if it's an end-user issue, then the original tarball can remain
<directhex> and the patch be applied via debian/patches
<ali1234> it clearly says "used"
<ali1234> it also says "The above copyright notice"
<ali1234> doesn't say anything about the part below
<ali1234> so just delete that line, and you are in compliance with the license
<popey> novel
<AlanBell> brilliant :)
<ali1234> nah, someone pointed it out on the comments on the first article i linked
<shauno> I'm not sure that's accurate.  'the above copyright notice' (the (c) json.org part) 'and this permission notice' (of which the absurd clause is part)
<ali1234> damn
<ali1234> oh well, back to plan A. just rewrite it and forget this ever happened
<ali1234> actually i think directhex has a point about distribution
<ali1234> if i beat someone to death with a debian source CD i am probably violating this license
<ali1234> that's a field of endeavour right?
<popey> depends who you beat to death
<ali1234> good point
<ali1234> let's assume it's a puppy then.
<AlanBell> and whether you take the CD away or leave it on the body
<popey> what if the puppy bit my cat?
<popey> tricky area
<ali1234> not really, it's still vigilante justice and cruel and unusual pnishment
<shauno> reimplementation sounds like a fantastic idea.  author is apparently gidy with this modicum of power, so it should probably be taken away for his own sake.
#ubuntu-uk 2012-11-08
<dogmatic69> anyone got a stats page for download numbers?
<ali1234> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_most_downloaded_Android_applications
<ali1234> http://www.dosgamesarchive.com/downloads/
<ali1234> i could go on...
<ali1234> there's no stats on ubuntu downloads if that is what you meant
<ali1234> the best stats anyone found is wikimedia browser stats
<ali1234> but those are terrible and require a large amount of analysis to get anything even remotely meaningful
<dogmatic69> ali1234: ye, ubuntu downloads.
<dogmatic69> browser stats is pointless as it misses servers
<ali1234> downloads are pointless too because it missed torrents
<dogmatic69> ye
<ali1234> and besides i downloaded 4 ubuntu isos last week
<dogmatic69> they could just include some privacy busting call home stuff
<ali1234> yes but they only just put that in in the latest release
<ali1234> and the stats are unlikely to be public anyway
<ali1234> there is popcon but it isn't on by default
<ali1234> http://qa.debian.org/popcon.php?package=coreutils
<ali1234> i'm guessing most debian users have coreutils...
<shauno> unique addresses hitting security.ubuntu.com's repos would be an interesting one.  or the closest I can think of to interesting, at least
<directhex> popcon is opt-in though
<ali1234> yeah, i bet a larger fraction of debian users opt in than ubuntu users
<directhex> bedtime.
<ali1234> dogmatic69: basically you won't ever get more than a general trend, and even that is entirely open to debate due to the scarcity of data
<dogmatic69> ye
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Ubuntu Advocacy Development Kit - http://www.jonobacon.org/2012/11/08/ubuntu-advocacy-development-kit/
<ali1234> oh great ^
<ali1234> advocacy doesn't work
<ali1234> and even if it did, community support already can't handle the existing user base
<ali1234> every hour you spend designing posters and planning release parties is an hour you could have spent learning how to fix bugs and then fixing bugs
<AlanBell> morning all
<popey> morning
<AlanBell> o/
<diplo> Morning all
<theopensourcerer> morning
<daubers> Morning
<BigRedS> Good Morning!
<BigRedS> Anyone got a recommendation for an S3 browser? So I could click around it as if it were a real filesystem?
<diplo> daubers: nice work on the printer :)
<JamesTait> Good morning all! :)
<daubers> diplo: \o/ just miles of calibration to do now
<danfish> BigRedS: isn't there an s3 fuse implementation?
<danfish> http://code.google.com/p/s3fs/
<danfish> failing that dragondisk
<popey> can someone on quantal try something for me? right click the dash icon in the top left, you should get a menu, now with that open, press Super+S to show all workspaces, then come out of that again with Super+S. Do you still see the context menu for the dash?
<popey> also, simpler test. over mouse over dash so you get a "Dash Home" tooltip, press super+s, then super+S again, now move the mouse away from the launcher, note that every time you press super+s and come out, it always has the tooltip
<directhex> super-s doesn't work for me when the menu is open
<directhex> tooltip seems normal enough to me?
<popey> if you hold down super as you come out of super+s, the tooltip "Dash Home" always appears, it shouldnt
<popey> it should only appear when you mouse over the dash
<popey> but it seems to remember if you happened to Super+S as you had the mouse over the dash button
<BigRedS> danfish: ta!
<popey> might be a regression in this unity I'm testing
<diplo> Works ok here popey
<popey> hmm
<directhex> works ok here too
<popey> hmmm
<directhex> annoyed enough by json to blog about it, i think
<Laney> what aspect of it?
<AlanBell> directhex: that stuff is in Fedora too, and explicitly on their list of bad licenses
<AlanBell> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Licensing:Main?rd=Licensing#Bad_Licenses
<directhex> Laney, the license
<Daviey> Laney: Must be used for good and not evil.  Googlecode removed jsmin for the same reason, as it's non-free
<AlanBell> and it is in PHP
<Laney> yeah I know about it, I was just wondering what form the annoyance was taking
<Daviey> And also dangerous, as good and evil are not legally defined.  It's arguably as dangerous as a submarine patient
<directhex> it's childish more tha  anything
<directhex> it's unbelievable to me that anyone past puberty would think it was a good idea
<Myrtti> there's no fax software for ubuntu anymore?
<Myrtti> or am I just being blind
<BigRedS> fax? 1997 called...
<Myrtti> yeah I know
<Myrtti> what can I say, lawyers pfftt
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<BigRedS> G'morning
<brobostigon> morning BigRedS
<Laney> TVL nastygram
<Laney> "Whatever you're watching, however you're watching it, your home needs a TV license."
<mgdm> heh, that's easy to dissect
<Laney> indeed
<jacobw> they should wind up the pretense and introduce a culture tax already
<andylockran> howdy al
<andylockran> l
<popey> davmor2, poke
<popey> open software centre, in the banner at the top there is a left and right button in the bottom right of the banner, the arrows look off-centre to me, it's annoying me now
<popey> they're both to the left a bit
<popey> AlanBell, your email sig has no crlf between company name and url
<AlanBell> should it have?
<AlanBell> "I work at http://libertus.co.uk"
<Daviey> SPAM :)
<AlanBell> minimalist spam
<AlanBell> oh, I see what you mean popey
<AlanBell> different from address, should have a clrf or something there
<popey> --
<popey> Libertus Solutionshttp://libertus.co.uk
<AlanBell> yeah, fixored now
<popey> groovy
<popey> anyone fancy confirming bug 1076380
<lubotu3`> Launchpad bug 1076380 in software-center (Ubuntu) "Poorly aligned arrows in banner buttons" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1076380
<diplo> Done
<diplo> Wanted to make sure it wasn't just you first
<diplo> :)
<popey> :)
<popey> it may well be intentional :)
<diplo> Launchpad Janitor (janitor) wrote 43 seconds ago:
<diplo> Is that done because it affects more than one ?
<diplo> bug #1071001
<AlanBell> that ever present Ubuntu question "is that a bug or was it designed that way?"
<lubotu3`> Launchpad bug 1071001 in alsa-driver (Ubuntu) "Sound Card not detected NM10/ICH7 Intel HDA Internal" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1071001
<diplo> How do I get any help with that bug guys ?
<AlanBell> diplo: yes
<diplo> thought so
<diplo> ta
<CaMason> anyone here get the Steam linux beta invite?
<bashrc> no
<bashrc> I'm not much of a gamer TBH
<bashrc> although I might occasionally play on FlightGear
<CaMason> I've been following it for ages and was hoping to get an invite. Didn't :/
<bashrc> More commercial gaming will certainly bring new users to linux
<shauno> I'm curious if it will bring new users, or just mean existing users have to reboot into windows less often
<bashrc> my guess would be that most people who spend a lot of time in games will be using consoles anyway
<gord> thats a pretty bad guess, steam on windows is huge
<popey> CaMason, ya
<CaMason> popey, had any fun with it yet?
<popey> ya :)
<CaMason> any showstopper bugs?
<popey> it's surprisingly stable
<popey> it's got a few issues
<popey> I'm more interested in Unity3D tbh
<popey> https://twitter.com/popey/status/266585522942640128
<CaMason> why can't I ruddy zoom in on images in Twitter any more, grr
<CaMason> looking very nice
<popey> yeah, be good if devs can just take their existing code and pretty much just press a button to make a linux version
<CaMason> considering how many games launched in the beta, it can't be too far from that
<popey> all I did was download and run unity3d on windows 7, open the demo, spit out a 64-bit binary for linux and copy to my laptop to run it
<CaMason> wow nice
<CaMason> I probably play TF2 the most out of all my games, so will be good to see how it performs vs windows on the same system
<MartijnVdS> popey: It's confusing though
<MartijnVdS> popey: I had to read that twice to understand which Unity3D you meant :)
<CaMason> :)
<popey> :)
<popey> good job I didnt do it in vmware which also has something called Unity
<CaMason> yo dawg
<popey> indeed
<CaMason> anyone else got a new google search layout appearing?
<MartijnVdS> I have a new youtube design
<MartijnVdS> more G+ish
<CaMason> it's switched back now. All of the advanced search tools were horizontal rather than vertical
<CaMason> has a 'sorted by date' option
<MartijnVdS> shiny
<popey> directhex, first game I downloaded from the new humble bundle.. turns out to be a unity3d game.. fancy that
<MartijnVdS> how strange!
<popey> splice
<directhex> oh, i've played Splice on Windows
<directhex> so if steam keys appear for HIB Android 4, then hopefully they'll ship it there :)
<popey> i have already redeemed my steam keys
<popey> https://twitter.com/popey/status/266610413343477760
<CaMason> nice popey :D
<xnox> AlanBell: is iPhone / Android accessible?
<AlanBell> iphone is, certainly
<AlanBell> android is, somewhat
<AlanBell> I have not met a blind person who lacked an iPhone :)
<xnox> AlanBell: hmm... so how does a blind person use it?
<AlanBell> http://behindthecurtain.us/2010/06/12/my-first-week-with-the-iphone/
<AlanBell> http://www.marcozehe.de/ is a mozilla engineer working on various things, he uses an iPhone ad is blind
<xnox> with screen and camera off, I bet the battery lasts for ever.
<directhex> AlanBell, fascinating article
<shauno> it sounds counter-intuitive, but the screen is still on in those modes
<mgdm> I just tried it
<mgdm> it's interesting
<popey> 24 hours until snippy snippington!
<AlanBell> are you going to be live tweeting it?
<popey> probably not
<spiritech> does anyone know if pysdm is still working?
<spiritech> if i try to apt-get it, it says unable to locate package.
<AlanBell> !info pysdm
<lubotu3`> Package pysdm does not exist in quantal
<spiritech> how can i mount a disc at boot time?
<AlanBell> !fstab
<lubotu3`> The /etc/fstab file indicates how drive partitions are to be used or otherwise integrated into the file system. See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Fstab and http://www.tuxfiles.org/linuxhelp/fstab.html and !Partitions
<AlanBell> http://packages.ubuntu.com/search?keywords=pysdm
<AlanBell> looks like precise was the end of the line
<spiritech> the device shows up in nautilus under devices, and mounts when i select it from the list, how can i make sure to mount it in the same place as nautilus expects it to be?
<AlanBell> bug 1005279
<lubotu3`> Launchpad bug 1005279 in pysdm (Ubuntu) "Please remove Pysdm from Quantal: dead upstream, buggy" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1005279
<spiritech> there is a another program called mountmanger, i installed it. only it looks seriously dated.
<spiritech> i will have a look at fstab, its probably pretty easy to use.
<AlanBell> it is just a text file, you tell it where you want stuff mounted, and there they go
<AlanBell> but avoid using it for stuff that gets hot plugged
<AlanBell> xnox: http://www.apple.com/accessibility/iphone/vision.html
<AlanBell> they haven't updated that page to put iphone 5 in the text yet
<AlanBell> popey: I saw this and thought of you http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/20251773
<popey> hah
<spiritech> i am trying to remove the close button from the title bar.. i have set the metacity general option to minimize,maximize: this worked before, is there a reason why it might not be working now?
* AlanBell changed the topic of #ubuntu-uk to: Welcome to #ubuntu-uk! http://ubuntu-uk.org | This channel is publicly archived http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Mailing List http://tinyurl.com/uukml | Support Guidelines http://tinyurl.com/uuksupport | next meeting 14/11/2012 20:00
<popey> blimey, fedora 18 pushed back to january
<popey> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/18/Schedule
 * Azelphur is still happy about being in the steam linux beta, 2 days later
<Azelphur> shame there's no way to report bugs xD
<popey> thats what the forums are for
<Azelphur> true
<Azelphur> I don't think I ended up with access to the private forum, if there is one
<Azelphur> there's a public linux beta forum
<cliftonts> Evening all
<creativetux> heya
<cliftonts> I was wondering if anyone could help me with a simple problem. I have a list of web addresses, all photos which I need to download. I'm sure there must be a way to feed this list into terminal and have it just work it's way down the list. I'm not great with that sort of thing though
<ball> cliftonts: wget?
<cliftonts> ball: there's a bit more to it than that, I know that much
<creativetux> maybe DownloadThemAll! plugin for Firefox?
<cliftonts> I used to have a script to manipulate all the files in a directory but I'm damned if I can find it.
<cliftonts> it used some command like for f in *
 * ball shrugs
<creativetux> put all urls in a file, then wget -i download.list
<cliftonts> aah, that's handy. thanks.
<cliftonts> How do I format the file? Just one url per line in gedit?
<creativetux> yep
<cliftonts> great, thanks
<cliftonts> yup, that's done it alright. Saved me hours of work
<creativetux> awesome :)
<ball> Thanks creativetux, I wasn't familiar with the syntax.
<cliftonts> Unfortunately it means I have no excuse to avoid doing my work now!
<creativetux> Oops, well forget what i said and it will get lost with the original script :)
<cliftonts> lol
<cliftonts> right I'm off to get back to it. If I carry on like this I might actually get it done!
<cliftonts> cheers, bye
<andylockran> hey guys
<andylockran> really really weird behaviour
<andylockran> lightdm/ubuntu default
<creativetux> wow, that is weird :)
<andylockran> using a wyrestrom hdmi transporter
<andylockran> when the ubuntu machine is on the login screen, it scrambles the signal down the coaxial able
<andylockran> on the TV in a different room
<andylockran> really weird bit of radio inteference
<andylockran> when I'm logged into mythbuntu, it works fine
<andylockran> will write it up some other time
<creativetux> last one of those I used was dual cat6 and that worked fine
<andylockran> really strange
<andylockran> if there's no hdmi going through then there's no problem
<andylockran> edge case scenario
<dogmatic69> chrome likes my ram http://i.imgur.com/QEU09.png
<Arpad2> hi
<creativetux> hi
<Arpad2> Is it possibla to buy a Windows free notebook in the UK?
<creativetux> Dell used to ship with a linux option
<Arpad2> so, not any more?
<AlanBell> Arpad2: check ebuyer for zoostorm laptops
<Arpad2> AlanBell: thx
<xnox> Arpad2: system76 ships to uk, there are a few on ebuyer, http://www.pcspecialist.co.uk/ also has options for no OS (80 to 100 GBP off)
<Arpad2> why are retailers reluctant to offer os free laptops
<Arpad2> ?
<xnox> Arpad2: there are plenty.
<shauno> because they're a very narrow niche
<creativetux> because they afraid of tech calls from people who thought of cheap bargain and then realise they got nothing lol
<xnox> the rest are resellers not retailers =)
<Arpad2> in Hungary lot of small webshop offer this feature withbthe neweat mosels
<AlanBell> http://www.novatech.co.uk also
<Arpad2> and could you advice me about the config?
<Arpad2> I would like 17.3" screen
<Arpad2> this letter was the best I've found so far
<AlanBell> get an SSD rather than a spinning drive
<Arpad2> is it more durable?
<AlanBell> or get the smallest spinning drive and swap it yourself for an ssd
<AlanBell> it is fast and quiet
<creativetux> yeah +1 an ssd amazing different on speed and battery life I've found
<Arpad2> which ssd capacity you recomend?
<AlanBell> entirely up to you
<AlanBell> probably don't get something massively huge if you don't need it
<pr0ph3t> hi all
<AlanBell> that gets expensive, and by the time you do need it, they will be half the price
<pr0ph3t> has anyone tried the steam beta on yet?
 * hamitron doesn't like SSD
<pr0ph3t> not to play games of course but just to test how it works and all
<hamitron> small, and not enough time to go make coffee when comp is doing something
<hamitron> ;)
<pr0ph3t> I'm thinking of getting a small SSD actually, just to test it on my ubuntu box, check out the differences and work out whether a combination of SSD and HD is viable etc
<hamitron> these 60GB ones are certainly tempting, with their new lower prices
<AlanBell> yeah, I got one of those for Â£30 and shoved it in a USB enclosure
<Azelphur> don't suppose anyone knows if bank accounts have any form of API so you can watch transactions live?
<AlanBell> Azelphur: not usually, but some let you download in csv, xml or quicken format
<hamitron> Azelphur, maybe use email confirmations?
<AlanBell> and other assorted formats
<Azelphur> hamitron: they arrive hours and hours later
<pr0ph3t> well maybe some of you prefer not to expose themselves in public as gamers so I'll just say it (as it was published on Webupd8): you can run Steam on Linux even if you were not chosen for the beta testing officially, you can download the binary and run it, and that is exactly what I have done
<Azelphur> AlanBell: ah yea mine does, but that would involve polling with low interval
<hamitron> :/
<AlanBell> Azelphur: got money coming in that fast then?
<Azelphur> AlanBell: I do a lot of bank transfers
<Azelphur> also just to plug this in case anyone is interested in fun things, Bitcoin friday is starting in a few minutes, http://bitcoinfriday.com/
<Azelphur> I'll exchange Â£ to BTC if anyone wants anything :)
<pr0ph3t> AlanBell, I was thinking of doing the opposite, put my HD in a usb enclosure and install the SSD internally, although I realise that technically it is the same thing
<hamitron> I've considered SSD in USB caddy, but doesn't USB slow it down a fair amount?
<pr0ph3t> but wouldn't the USB connection defeat the
<pr0ph3t> hamitron, exactly my point
<hamitron> even USB 3 is not as good as esata imo
<pr0ph3t> I guess in this case it is not down to opinion, but physics and maths
<hamitron> well, SSD on USB 3.0 will be faster than HDD on USB 3.0
<hamitron> probably good for data, if you drop it too
<pr0ph3t> usb 3.0 480Mbit/s <-> sata 6Gbit/s
<hamitron> that is usb 2.0
<pr0ph3t> right usb is 5Gbit/s
<hamitron> I'd say latency is the biggest downside to usb, over esata
<pr0ph3t> I only have usb 2.0 on my laptop though
<hamitron> I've got usb 3.0 with a normal hdd
<hamitron> and I gotta say, not as great as I'd hoped
<hamitron> ;)
<AlanBell> pr0ph3t: I have an SSD internally (240GB) and I got the 60GB as an external thing
<AlanBell> well actually I got it because it was cheap, then I figured out what to do with it
<hamitron> :D
<hamitron> couldn't resist that bargan? ;)
<AlanBell> I can boot from it pretty quick, you don't notice that it is slow really
<pr0ph3t> I guess if you get a significant improvement in performance then 30 quid isn't much
<hamitron> boot times I bet are good
<AlanBell> yeah, I was going to put it in one of the kids machines, but the one with the laptop has IDE interface
<pr0ph3t> AlanBell, is it connected to a USB 3.0 port then?
<hamitron> just a shame I lag behind the times a little, and can't convince myself to spend money on a SSD yet
<hamitron> ;)
<AlanBell> pr0ph3t: nope, just usb2
<AlanBell> that will be a bottleneck, however it is still fast
<AlanBell> and silent and shockproof and light etc
<hamitron> I think you don't need such extras AlanBell, and can parcel it up for my xmas gift
<pr0ph3t> I'm thinking of installing it internally and speed up the system and then keep my data in the HD which now is internal connecting it through USB 2.0
<hamitron> ;)
<AlanBell> hehe
<AlanBell> I also have a little server which actually boots from an SD card plugged into a USB port
<hamitron> I dunno how people can live with USB 2.0 for large amounts of data
<AlanBell> that has a 3TB spinning rust drive in it, but it is spun down most of the time
<hamitron> huge transfers I've found USB 3.0 better for, but esata is better I'd say
<hamitron> 3TB!
<AlanBell> when I back stuff up to it, the drive starts spinning, but most of the time that machine has no moving parts
<AlanBell> I unplugged all the fans
<pr0ph3t> hamitron, one thing is spending 30 quid on a SSD, another thing is getting a new laptop with USB 3.0 ports ;-)
#ubuntu-uk 2012-11-09
<hamitron> yeh :/
<hamitron> my laptop has USB 1.1, so understand
<hamitron> ;)
<pr0ph3t> just to be sure, Steam on Linux is really cool, can't wait to see it proper. I'm off now, night all!
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jo Shields] Evil, or why Douglas Crockford is harmful to Free Software - http://apebox.org/wordpress/rants/456/
<ali1234> i have a suggestion
<ali1234> when you're writing automated tests, run each test twice in a row
<ali1234> i've been trying to record a screen cast for the past 2 hours and i've found several cases where something works only the first time you try to do it
<ali1234> one of which was actually *in* the screencasting software
<ali1234> ok so now that we install nvidia through "software-sources" there is a problem
<ali1234> the way you access that dialog under the classic desktop is by opening synaptic and selecting the "repositories" menu item
<ali1234> this doesn't work because jockey waits for synaptic to exit before installing packages
<ali1234> but synaptic launched software sources, so you can't close it until you close software sources
<ali1234> so it just hangs forever until you click cancel
<ali1234> and of course there is no indication of what is happening
<ali1234> also nouveau still locks this machine
<ali1234> then watchdog timer resets it
<directhex> proprietary drivers? EVIL! use intel!
 * directhex flees
<ali1234> lol
<yellowwinner> ok...lol
<ali1234> i thought you hated intel because it's so slow?
<directhex> well, maybe
<directhex> interestingly, if you run steam on intel, it pops up telling you to add a driver backport ppa to software sources
<ali1234> bug 1076832
<lubotu3`> Launchpad bug 1076832 in software-properties (Ubuntu) ""Additional drivers" tab doesn't work when Software Sources was launched by synaptic" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1076832
<ali1234> bug 1076830
<lubotu3`> Launchpad bug 1076830 in gnome-panel (Ubuntu) "panel crashes if you add, remove, then add the same applet" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1076830
<ali1234> bug 1076829
<lubotu3`> Launchpad bug 1076829 in kazam (Ubuntu) "Recording only works once" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1076829
<yellowwinner> UBUNTU
<ali1234> i know right, i only installed it two hours ago
<ali1234> well, THIS version anyway :)
<ali1234> now i have to figure out why firefox never starts if you run it from the menu, but works fine if you run it from the terminal
<yellowwinner> I have had that happen
<ali1234> Exec=firefox -new-window
<ali1234> nope, nothing to do with that
<ali1234> it must be a bug from the past two days because the test install i did two days ago on identical hardware worked fine
<ali1234> maybe it's nouveau
<ali1234> rebooting to proper driver
<yellowwinner> I need help with ubuntu,I am making a game and I dont know what program I can use to make it or even a animation.
<yellowwinner> hello?
<yellowwinner> ik there is 114 users on chat.
<ali1234> http://askubuntu.com/questions/204103/firefox-16-wont-start-from-the-gnome-shell-in-12-10
<ali1234> fail :(
<yellowwinner>  use to make it or even a animation.
<yellowwinner>  hello?
<yellowwinner>  ik there is 114 users on chat.
<yellowwinner> --> ali1234 (~ajbuxton@headfuzz.co.uk) has joined #ubuntu-uk
<yellowwinner> <ali1234> http://askubuntu.com/questions/204103/firefox-16-wont-start-from-the-gnome-shell-in-12-10
<yellowwinner> I need help with ubuntu,I am making a game and I dont know what program I can use to make it or even a animation.
<yellowwinner> srry
<yellowwinner>  I need help with ubuntu,I am making a game and I dont know what program I can use to make it or even a animation.
<ali1234> what kind of game are you making?
<yellowwinner> Its a platform,weapon game
<yellowwinner> look here http://www.thatbigforum.com/new-game-help-wanted-t206240.html
<ali1234> like super smash bros?
<Azelphur> python/pygame is quite easy to learn and should get you where you want to go
<yellowwinner> well sortof like super mario bro and super smash bro.
<ali1234> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PMFUOUz2TZw <- or like this kind of thing?
<Azelphur> and very well documented, too
<ali1234> pygame is a bit old fashioned though
<Azelphur> sounds like that's all he wanted *shrug*
<Azelphur> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eUiqIlCrAck
<ali1234> lol stolen graphics
<Azelphur> no day is complete without piracy
<yellowwinner> sort of,but my game will be different
<yellowwinner> do you have skype
<ali1234> well if you use pygame you will have to learn a lot of stuff
<yellowwinner> well I do code ALOT so...]
<ali1234> pygame uses SDL so it is like old style DOS programming with framebuffers
<ali1234> it can also use opengl but that isn't much better without support libraries
<yellowwinner> k,ali1234 do u have skype?
<ali1234> you might be better off with something like this: https://love2d.org/
<ali1234> i don't have anything yet i just reinstalled
<ali1234> i need to reinstall everything
<yellowwinner> ok
<yellowwinner> i just reinstaled from 12.04 presice becouse software center and update manager was brocken
<yellowwinner> so now im ubuntu 12.04.1 and software center only crashed once whith only 1 Gig
<yellowwinner> of ram
<yellowwinner> whith love 2-d can I make guns and stores
<ali1234> sure
<yellowwinner> ok
<ali1234> you still have to do a lot of work yourself though
<ali1234> just less than with pygame
<yellowwinner> ik
<yellowwinner> I still need help with graphics etc but espesioly graphics becouse i was never a good drwler
<yellowwinner> I* Drawler*
<yellowwinner> just installed love 2d
<ali1234> no skype on 12.10?
<ali1234> "previous purchases" on software centre doesn't work
<ali1234> it's just empty :(
<yellowwinner> works on 12.04
<yellowwinner> well just a sec i will pm you my skype id becouse I got to go
<yellowwinner> also try going to skypes homepage
<Azelphur> ali1234: http://bitcoinfriday.com/ tasty deals are tasty
<ali1234> blockchain.info zero fees for pingit?
<ali1234> there's your solution for buying bitcoins
<ali1234> just get a barclays account
<Azelphur> ali1234: I get cheaper than pingit, and you can buy from me :D
<ali1234> i don't want to buy anyt ho
<Azelphur> Â£6.89/btc ain't bad though
<ali1234> i guess
<ali1234> but i already have enough
<Azelphur> up to 40% off bitcoin cloths sounds awesome though
<Azelphur> gotta get me a bitcoin hat
<ali1234> are you still selling that FPGA board?
<Azelphur> ali1234: yup
<Mr_Tinkles> hi, when I boot (even attempt to boot from Cd) I get rmr:2
<Mr_Tinkles> and it doesn't boot
<theopensourcerer> Morning worldlings
<popey> Morning :D
<diplo> Morning
<danfish> morning
<danfish> I have never been so glad it's a Friday :)
<popey> *\o/* friday!
<popey> -------8<--------
<theopensourcerer> Good week then danfish ?
 * theopensourcerer will be drinking beer, playing pool and eating curry this evening in Farnham
<danfish> theopensourcerer: don't ask. Too many ill people, a load of python for a remote patient monitoring system 'broke'
<danfish> but at least Matt Rooney wasn't elected!
<danfish> and lxc containers have really come along well in the latest release
<awilkins> Does Quantal fix the Unity bug where if you have two differently sized monitors, when you drag a window to the top margin of the smaller one and it has a dimension larger than the dimension on that monitor, it maximises to the larger monitor instead?
<popey> awilkins, not yet, its in progress
<AlanBell> awilkins: nope
<popey> I'd like that fixed in raring and backported to q and p
<AlanBell> fwiw, it isn't just vertical
<awilkins> Yeah, it's horizontal as well AFAICT
<popey> bug 751605
<lubotu3`> Launchpad bug 751605 in compiz (Ubuntu) "Multi-monitor - Windows maximize on the wrong monitor" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/751605
<AlanBell> if you have a wide screen and a thin screen it jumps across if it would have fitted vertically
<AlanBell> glad it is a bug though
<JamesTait> Happy Friday, folks! :-D
<mungojerry> i notice a distinct lack of popy wearing in the east end
<mungojerry> compared to the city
<mungojerry> 10% vs ~90%
<AlanBell> poppy sellers know where the returns are
 * theopensourcerer hides in shame
 * popey has no poppy
<mungojerry> most of the east end was flattened
<mungojerry> although the current population might not know that
<AlanBell> I did buy a poppy from the first seller that came round, but I have not seen any others
<mungojerry> outside supermarkets
<awilkins> Or the working class now just regard war as a tool of the rich to extract a profit (Halliburton, etc)
 * theopensourcerer will acquire one this lunchtime.
<mungojerry> it's this time of year i commemorate my grandad getting bronchial pneumonia
<awilkins> My granddad was an engineer, worked on munitions in the war.
<mungojerry> he got really sick and sent to hospital to recover. meanwhile his unit got sent to a battle where the allies got masssacred
<mungojerry> pneumonia saved his life
<theopensourcerer> My dad was "called up" in 1946 (phew)
<diplo> I was in a shop the other day in plymouth and woman wanted a pin because she was going to use last years poppy, don't think she gets it really
<mungojerry> :-\
<theopensourcerer> lol
<awilkins> My wife accused me of being the sort of person who would have ended up at Bletchley Park yesterday
<mungojerry> i dream about the idea of working at BP
<mungojerry> guys, i recommend you watch episode 3 of this series http://www.channel5.com/shows/heroes-of-the-skies/episodes
<mungojerry> amazing story
<awilkins> I dreamed about Batman going paragliding on his cape by lassoing a mess of bats.
<AlanBell> think I might swap monitors between home and the office
<mungojerry> i was reading yesterady about the 2 guys to swam to a stricken u-boat to retrieve the naval enigma, which was critical for the war in the atlantic
<AlanBell> I kind of like my home monitor in portrait mode 1152x2048
<mungojerry> they managed to waterproof the code books and the enigma and get it out, but they died as the u-boat sank
<mungojerry> you don't see that kind of bravery and selfessness much now
<popey> you didnt then either
<popey> we find out about these acts much later usually
<mungojerry> also there is less call for it nowadays
<mungojerry> very grateful to those guys in the war though, and the more i read about it (which is quite a lot) , the more grateful i am
<diplo> Also probably wouldn't be allowed to do things now, H&S would disallow it in case someone got sued
<popey> awilkins, just spoke to the developer assigned to it, he's going to take a look next week
<mungojerry> Alan Turing at bletchley: "when the prospect of a Nazi invasion of Britain had receded, he began to absent himself from parades. The authorities were irritated by Turingâs apparently casual approach, insisting that since he had signed up for Home Guard duties, he was under military law. Turing calmly pointed out to the furious officers in question that ... he had stated as much on the form that he had signed. One of the qu
<mungojerry> estions was: âDo you understand that by enrolling in the Home Guard, you place yourself liable to military law?â Turing had written his answer: âNoâ. Naturally, no one had noticed"
<awilkins> popey, That's reassuring... has been a paper cut for a long time
<awilkins> (not an official "paper cut" just annoying and persistent)
<popey> yeah, bugs me too :)
<diplo> Just booted up an old 1u server I had, running 8.04
<diplo> hmm not touched that in a while :D
<mattmonkeymagic> Hi, anyone able to help with xrdp/LDAP/pam issue??
<theopensourcerer> lol - We had an email from a very old customer that we thought had died or something the other day. We set up Squid, VirtualBox (WinXP) and some other stuff on a 8.04 server in early 2009. She emailed to ask for the password as they wanted to add a new user ;-)
<diplo> Booting up the other one now, it's been in my garage for 5+ years
<diplo> Noisey!
<diplo> Oooh Grub 0.95
<diplo> Running debian
<diplo> Stuck on Starting system log daemon
<diplo> See how long I can put up with the noise for to see if it goes past
<diplo> http://ubuntuone.com/4CyssbA2E98d3lbUmh6hrl
<czajkowski> aloha
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<mungojerry> hello
 * mungojerry has found his old oolite save game files and is back in the elite groove
<mungojerry> anyone else play oolite?
<diplo> Never heard of it...
<einonm> is that an elite clone?
<mungojerry> yes, it's amazing
<mungojerry> has all the fun of the the original series
<mungojerry> quite similar to arc elite if you've played it
<mungojerry> you can play stric classic mode, but the cool thing its the huge array of expansions that the community have made
<mungojerry> generation ships, cool missions, bloomberg markets etc
<einonm> I used to play frontier quite a bit, but I seem to remember oolite never worked for me, openGL issues or something
<mungojerry> what distro you on?
<bashrc> what about oolite?
<mungojerry> its great :)
<einonm> this was Fedora at the time
<mungojerry> works pretty well on all linux i thnk
<mungojerry> lightdm has been slighlty problematic for some, and some ubuntus too, but now there's a tar.gz that you just put in /opt/oolite
<mungojerry> and extract
<einonm> I may give it a try if I ever get time - it was a good few years ago
<mungojerry> scooped up a few thargon robot craft last night :D
<mungojerry> alien items :)
<popey> i just apt-got it and it works nicely
<mungojerry> not the most recent in the repos
<mungojerry> check out the list of exapnsions http://wiki.alioth.net/index.php/OXP_List
<mungojerry> some of the stuff is from the novella
<mungojerry> docking with a deep space dredger, and collecting escape pods for insurance payouts
<mungojerry> obviously you can trade ships etc now
<dwatkins> apt-get, apt-got, has apt-gotten
<mungojerry> i'm not sure if a better game exists actually
<bashrc> apt-grab?
<mungojerry> apt-acquire
<mungojerry> apt-peruse instead of apt-cache search
<hoover> hi folks
<yellowwinner> im back
<yellowwinner> gtg
<popey> ok!
<Bassetts> well, I have not been here for a while
<Bassetts> how are all you lovely people?
<popey> BARK BARK BARK Bassetts BARK BARK BARK!
<Bassetts> not as friendly as I remember then :-p
<popey> its a friendly bark
 * Bassetts pets popey
<popey> like you get when you've been away on holiday, talk wagging furiously, that kind of thing
<popey> </moment_lost>
<Bassetts> the kind where some dogs get so excited they pee all over you?
<popey> yes, that
<Bassetts> oh dear
<christel> :o
<Bassetts> does anyone have some towels or something?
<diplo> :q
<diplo> Oops
<diplo> :@P
<Bassetts> anyway, how have you been popey, been a long time since we chatted
<mgdm> Bassetts!
<popey> Bassetts, oh the usual :)
<Bassetts> mgdm! :-)
<Bassetts> popey, technology, lug, UDS, foss etc? :-p
<popey> yup
<popey> pate
<Bassetts> sounds good :-)
<popey> i made some with lambs liver I got from the co-op for 60p :)
<popey> tis yum
<Bassetts> awesome
<Bassetts> does anyone have C++ experience?
<Bassetts> I need a good resource to learn it
<AlanBell> directhex: so, should all the JSON containing stuff go to Debian non-free?
<AlanBell> and can it get into Ubuntu like that?
<diplo> Anyone tried the Xorg Edgers ppa for the new nvidia drivers which are supposed t odouble performance ?
<awilkins> Not me
<awilkins> Although was pleased with the 304 version which makes my dear old Mum's computer actually work instead of going  DEEEERRRRRRRP
<awilkins> Do they double the performance of Unity? Saw a number of comments about them improving OpenGL performance when Compiz is enabled
<ali1234> nvidia driver optimizations typically only affect one specific program
<ali1234> in this case L4D2
<ali1234> which we can't even play yet if we're not in the beta
<ali1234> they usually have a detrimental effect on... all other software
<awilkins> ali1234, I think these ones are just optimizations
<awilkins> It comes out to about 10% faster than the Windows build in the end
<ali1234> in one game
<awilkins> Think that was a combiation of driver updates and Source engine patches
<awilkins> And it's 4% when they backported some of the optimizations to thw Windows build
<awilkins> " dramatically reduce game loading times " sounds like they sorted out a load of the memory transfer stuff which would probably translate to universal performance improvements
<awilkins> If it was 1/2 the performance of the Windows build before, sounds like there were some serious issues
<ali1234> i've never had performance issues
<ali1234> though we are talking about 150 fps vs 300 fps when your monitor probably only does 60 fps
<awilkins> Well, yes, you'd not notice
<awilkins> And I don't play games on Linux much (yet)
<ali1234> what i did notice is that shaders never work properly
<ali1234> play any game where there are windows which are supposed to be transparent
<ali1234> they're not
<directhex> AlanBell, the json.org license doesn't apply to all implementations, just the specific implementations under the json.org license
<directhex> AlanBell, and i don't think the code is distributable in non-free/multiverse
<AlanBell> yeah, python-simplejson is fine for example
<AlanBell> did you see that it fails the tentacles of evil test
<ali1234> that what now?
<shauno> I'm not sure it's safe to google tentacles at work.  google knows me too well.
 * danfish installs the cinnamon desktop to see what it's like
<directhex> Uplink, Darwinia, Amnesia updated to use 64-bit builds on 64-bit distros (fixing dependency issue in amnesia)
<diplo> danfish: I've used it lot's of times
<diplo> just kept getting io lockups
<diplo> So dod oimon
<diplo> did*
<danfish> oh. I'll give it a whizz anyway, just out of curiosity. I don't mind Unirty TBH and use xfce on remote desktops
<danfish> which work well
<diplo> I use unity most of the time now
<diplo> Especially since 12.10
<mungojerry> diplo, you called?
<mungojerry> yeah, got lockups on cinnamon, and also gnome shell
<BigRedS> isn't cinnamon gnome shell with a bunch of extensions?
<NET||abuse> where would people recomend for dedicated server hosting?
<NET||abuse> i'm used to using hetzner, but requirement is UK based datacenter this time.
<ali1234> BigRedS: yes
<Azelphur> NET||abuse: I think kimsufi.co.uk ain't too bad
<ali1234> i've got a question about hetzner actually
<ali1234> one of my users wants to send an email to about 150 people
<ali1234> am i going to have problems?
<NET||abuse> 150, not at all
<AlanBell> ali1234: that is not many at all
<ali1234> it's going to be sent from the wordpress running on a hetzner dedi
<NET||abuse> legitimate distribution list yets?
<NET||abuse> ali1234: ye, don't worry your little head.
<ali1234> the plugin has an option "limit bcc to 30 addresses" and then it sends multiple emails
<NET||abuse> :P condecention much..
<theopensourcerer> NET||abuse: Try Bytemark
<ali1234> i suppose that the email will get split up by the postfix running on the dedi anyway right?
<NET||abuse> Bytmark, oh, they sponsor good stuff, so why not :)(
<theopensourcerer> we use Hetzner a lot - very happy so far.
<ali1234> which will then send it out to all the different servers itself
<directhex> mythic!
<directhex> for all your rack-mounted mac mini needs
<theopensourcerer> I would not think 150 emails would be a problem at all.
<ali1234> i don't understand how email servers work anyway
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: believe me, you don't want to
<NET||abuse> ali1234: well sending more than 2 or 3k emails ina day then maybe you start to be suspicious :)
<theopensourcerer> there be dragons...
<ali1234> i believe that my local postfix contacts the receipient mailserver directly right?
<NET||abuse> ali1234: ;yeh, be careful with postfix/other mta's, their channels are filled with meritocratic short tempered geeks.
<NET||abuse> :P
<NET||abuse> ali1234: meh, kinda
<ali1234> so a mail from wordpress to @gmail.com goes wordpress/php -> postfix -> google smtp -> gmail
<AlanBell> ali1234: it tries to, but might fail over to secondary MX
<ali1234> it does not go through a hetzner smarthost first
<AlanBell> no
<NET||abuse> as long as you didn't configure it to, no
<ali1234> so if there were a limit on my BCC, it would be in software that i control, basically
<AlanBell> it goes to the MX which is possibly a relay to where it is going to be delivered in the end
<ali1234> i've watched the postfix logs trying to debug another issue and seen it being greylisted by other random email servers etc
<NET||abuse> ali1234: id' not use bcc lists, i'm not sure how your mta will deal with it, but if one address has issues, in a large list of them in a bcc, itj could block the other emails
<ali1234> i think i need to set up SPF as well
<ali1234> ah, so just send many individual emails?
<NET||abuse> yes, if you are sending out even a moderate amount of mail, SPF records are good
<NET||abuse> reveres that dns, baby..
<ali1234> the plugin has an option for that so that's ok
<NET||abuse> i'd use it
<NET||abuse> go seperate, avoid clogging mta queues
<ali1234> hmm, about SPF... i read that if i add a SPF record for the server it will make everything else look fake
<NET||abuse> if it's a shared host, yes, that's annoying.
<ali1234> my users got a gmail account configured to send as their domain
<ali1234> also the server runs a load of other websites
<NET||abuse> unless you actually have mx records for the other domains useing the named spf name as the mx record
<NET||abuse> then it's fine.
<ali1234> i don't want to break any of that stuff
<NET||abuse> just add mx to the other domains on the box to use the spf name as an mx record.
<NET||abuse> i think that satisfies most issues.
<ali1234> nah, the server does not receive mail, it only sends it (ie sign up emails etc)
<NET||abuse> yeh, but to have other servers say, your sending email for which domain, oh that one, ok
<NET||abuse> your spf name appears in mx records for that domain, therefore we're ok with you sending email for that domain.
<NET||abuse> basically.
<ali1234> yeah, but i have to add an SPF record for gmail too or else it will stop working
<NET||abuse> there's more to it than that i think, but more or less, that's why when you set MX ASPMX.L.GOOGLE.COM 5 for your mx records, it lets google send mail for your domain without issues.
<NET||abuse> nooooooo
<NET||abuse> hahahah
<NET||abuse> everyone gets confused by this stuff
<NET||abuse> at first
<ali1234> yes.
<shauno> setting google.com as an MX will make them receive for your domain too?
<NET||abuse> yes, that's right,
<NET||abuse> and setting an spf record allows them to be trusted, so sorry ali1234, I got completely mixed up in my head too,, seems i'm not clear on it myself.
<ali1234> that's not what i want
<shauno> for spf I have 'include:_spf.google.com' in the txt record
<ali1234> i have a receiving mail server already, that forwards to gmail
<shauno> descriptive text "v=spf1 a mx include:_spf.google.com -all"
<shauno> A & MX refer to the dns records of the same type, the incdlue: delegates, and I don't remember what -all was for
<ali1234> -all means "reject anything else"
<NET||abuse> so don't do that :)
<ali1234> that is - means fail, all means anything not already matched
<shauno> well, for my site, anything that didn't come from my MX or google's delegate oughta fail
<ali1234> yeah
<ali1234> that's what i want
<ali1234> so if i write a SPF record for a.com which mentions my MX IP, that won't affect it's abaility to send as b.com at all?
<ali1234> this is why i always hate it when someone asks me "hey can i email all the users"
<shauno> it shouldn't; that'd depend on b.com's record
<ali1234> assuming sending mail works for b.com now, it should continue to work?
<ali1234> i'll just try it :/
<shauno> right.  the recieving end looks up the record for the from address, it doesn't go combing to see if anyone else on the planet has a record that matches
<ali1234> yeah i guess that would allow ddos if i could say "i'm the only person allowed to send as gmail.com"
<ali1234> that's just plain silly
<ali1234> gandi zone file editor help: "You can leave comments, but they will not be saved."
<ali1234> :(
<ali1234> does this look reasonable: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/1345685/
<shauno> seems silly.  I imagine it's just so you can paste in existing records without breaking things, but surely saving them isn't too difficult
<ali1234> hmm need to change the timeout
<shauno> I think you've misunderstood the include: clause.  that just includes the spf records that _spf.google.com provides, it doesn't allow _spf.google.com
<ali1234> maybe
<shauno> so including yourself is recursive
<ali1234> nah, i'm not including myself there
<ali1234> but point taken
<shauno> that's what include:5.9.107.79 is trying to do
<ali1234> "mx" should include gandi.net mail servers
<ali1234> *allow
<ali1234> actually it won't because reverse dns on that ip gives a different domain
<shauno> right
<ali1234> k,how about this: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/1345698/
<shauno> I think it's just ip4:, but that's more like it, yeah
<ali1234> oops, you're right
<shauno> just looking at ' host -t txt _spf.google.com' and assuming theirs works :)
<BigRedS> ~all means that it's not taken *that* seriously anyway
<shauno> right.  ~all is soft, so I get a header injected but still receive it (but can junk it with procmail later)
<BigRedS> yeah
<BigRedS> most mailers will consider it, but not treat an spf fail as a reason to block the mail
<shauno> probably a sane idea while you're testing though
<BigRedS> yeah, definitely
<BigRedS> almost everyone's spf records are ~all
 * popey spies SuperMatt playing Serious Sam 3
<shauno> I guess I can afford hardfails because it's just me on my mx :)
<ali1234> my dns changes don't seem to be propagating even though i have TTL set to 300
<brobostigon> 300, by what scale. ?
<ali1234> seconds
<brobostigon> ali1234: last week, i had mine set to 10 minutes, and in the end, it took, closer to an hour, for the changes to have worked on my end.
<ali1234> i'm querying directly the host's DNS server
<ali1234> even that has not updated
<brobostigon> ok.
<brobostigon> no idea then.
<ali1234> the authority section (which i cannot edit) has timeout 10800 (3 hours)
<jacobw> evening
<ali1234> will that affect TXT records?
<brobostigon> no idea.
<jacobw> if they're cached, yes
<ali1234> oh wait, it's working now
<ali1234> dig TXT @a.dns.gandi.net drumoff.tv
<directhex> ali1234, you incremented the serial number?
<ali1234> wat
<ali1234> what serial number? i am confused now
<ali1234> i guess the TTL is a lower bound
<ali1234> cool, spf is working
<AlanBell> http://design.canonical.com/ loving the design team's new blog layout. I now have *no* clue what order the posts are in
<ali1234> is it pinterest style?
<ali1234> it's not loading for me
<AlanBell> october, january,october, september,november, august, august, october
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: target release order?
<ali1234> form over function
<ali1234> pretty much what you expect from designers
<AlanBell> it is a page of stuff and I have to read all the dates and internally peform max(date) to figure out which to read
<Azelphur> Is there any easy way to send out like 30 emails, where only one word in the email differs for each one?
<ali1234> mail merge
<jacobw> that's kind of the definition of mail merge
<AlanBell> Azelphur: if you want to go up a few orders of magnitude from there you could use an email marketing platform like openemm
<AlanBell> {email marketing platform/spam engine}
<Azelphur> AlanBell: haha, nah, I might just use python+smtp to do it
<Azelphur> done a contest for my game servers, need to hand out the goodies to the winners :)
<jacobw> http://docs.python.org/2/library/email-examples.html
<jacobw> don't bother with smtplib, just make a milter
<jacobw> parse in to object â rewrite body â generate rfc822 back to postfix
<MartijnVdS> 2822
 * Seeker` wonders what is wrong with popey
<kvarley> I have a Samsung 535U3C and am running 12.04 on it. The wifi keeps dropping every 5-10 minutes. How can I check if I'm on the right driver for the wifi chip in it?
<directhex> by not /parting before receiving a reply.
<MartijnVdS> jpc
<yellowwinner> hello again
#ubuntu-uk 2012-11-10
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] VPSs, Ubuntu, and Juju - http://www.jonobacon.org/2012/11/10/vpss-ubuntu-and-juju/
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Stuart Langridge] Practical CSS3: Develop and Design, a book review - http://kryogenix.org/days/2012/11/10/practical-css3-develop-and-design-a-book-review
<apacheuk> morning, know its early in the morning, but I have a fresh install of 12.10 and I've noticed I seem to be using what I think is a high amount of available ram, I have firefox running 2 tabs (g+ and twitter) evolution running and xchat, I'm currently using 1.3gb of my 2gb available
<apacheuk> does that sound normal for unity?
<jacobw> it doesn't sound normal, but unity does uses more resources than non-compiz based desktops
<jacobw> compiz uses more resources and performs worse than other compositors or no compositor
<jacobw> apacheuk: my MATE desktop is currently using 800M of RAM, i can see in gnome-system-monitor that firefox is using 115M and it's plugin-container is using 200M
<apacheuk> hmm, only thing I did differently this time was install the 64bit version, which I got by mistake but figured it was worth a try.... maybe switch back to the 32bit version
<jacobw> RAM consumption doesn't usually worry me as long as the desktop is responsive and load is below 1
<apacheuk> I run a Oracle database in a VM, so I need as much RAM as possible :)
<apacheuk> soon as my current backup finishes I think I might switch back to the 32bit version, before I install the rest of the software I use daily
<apacheuk> having said that my laptop which is running the same version is running about the same, so maybe that is normal, might have to order some more RAM
<popey> apacheuk, how are you determining how much ram is in use?
<apacheuk> basically using free -m on the command line
<jacobw> available ram = used - cached
<apacheuk> output from command line http://paste.ubuntu.com/1347335/
<apacheuk> does that mean I'm actually using 1849-1150 ?
<directhex> installing ubuntu on a netbook stumbles at the first hurdle: startup disk creator is an unstable POS
<MartijnVdS> it is?
<jacobw> apacheuk: 1849 - 669, '-/+ buffers/cache: 1150 852' shows you what's available after subtracting buffers and cache from used
<directhex> it is.
<directhex> the "erase" button causes a popup "org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.NoReply: Did not receive a reply. Possible causes include: the remote application did not send a reply, the message bus security policy blocked the reply, the reply timeout expired, or the network connection was broken." for example
<popey> not had that
<popey> bug 559524
<lubotu3`> Launchpad bug 559524 in usb-creator (Ubuntu) "org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.NoReply" [Undecided,Expired] https://launchpad.net/bugs/559524
<directhex> had to kill my session. stray udisks processes killed it
<directhex> dum de dum, still stuck on "installing bootloader"
<directhex> this is a bust. i'll create the installer from windows.
<popey> it takes a while
<popey> progress bar lies
<directhex> i gave it 10 minutes the first time.
<apacheuk> jacobw, done some reading on the free -m command, think I can see a memory upgrade in my near future
<directhex> worked first try on windows w/ pendrive linux creator
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<zleap> hi
<zleap> AlanBell, thanks for the cd's arrived today (well picked up from post office today)
<AlanBell> yay
<kvarley> How on earth does Unity 3D work out of the box on Ubuntu 12.10? That's awesome!
<popey> heh kvarley
<kvarley> popey: 8 years on and Ubuntu is still amazing me :)
<DJones> AlanBell: Wondered if you'd seen this? http://prupert.co.uk/2012/11/08/build-your-own-baby-monitor-revisited/
<AlanBell> I have retired from babies
<AlanBell> wow, he did *nothing* apart from use it in the way it is intended to be used and the BBC did an article about it
<jacobw> it's a camera that happens to be watcing a baby
<AlanBell> yeah
<AlanBell> the "hack" is that he didn't purchase it from Mothercare
<AlanBell> think I might rewrite my camera controller as a python script that serves a port directly, then run that on a raspberry pi
<kvarley1> popey: Have you got the Steam overlay to working with Minecraft?
<popey> the what?
<popey> i have no idea what steam overlay is
<kvarley1> popey: You're in the Steam beta, right? The overlay is what is brought up when you press Shift and Tab when in a Steam game
<zleap> hi
<popey> oh
<directhex> kvarley1, minecraft isn't a steam game though
<popey> but minecraft isn't a steam game
<zleap> i have connected a raspberry pi with a static ip address to a netbook connected to a wireless lan via dhcp if i try and ssh in to the pi i get no route to host
<kvarley1> popey: Yes, but you can add non-Steam games to your library and then the overlay works on them usually.
<BigRedS> popey: zleap your netbook needs to have a route for the pi
<directhex> zleap, correct.
<zleap> yeah
<zleap> how do i do that
<directhex> zleap, there's no route for that to work
<BigRedS> else it'll try to get out on the default route (normally your router), which isn;t where the pi is
<zleap> ok
<directhex> zleap, however, there's connection sharing support in network manager, if you go back to dhcp everywhere
<zleap> so i need to set route to the address of the pi
<BigRedS> what's the IP address off the pi and which interface is it plugged into?
<zleap> 192.168.1.17 via eth0
<zleap> well the network interface of the netbook
<BigRedS> eth0?
<zleap> yeah
<zleap> sorry not that good with networking
<BigRedS> Haha, nor i :)
<BigRedS> Is the 'normal' network also 192.168.1.x?
<zleap> yers
<zleap> and the subnet seems the same as at home too
<BigRedS> yeah, it's easiest if you make it different. If you do that and create a, say, 192.168.2.x network on your ethernet socket (with an IP address from that range on the pi) it might even Just Work
<zleap>  ok
<zleap> i have no access to the pi atm  at a lug meet
<zleap> its just plugged in adn on,  connected via a cable
<directhex> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Internet/ConnectionSharing
<zleap> ty
 * penguin42 notes http://www.ebuyer.com/395305-zoostorm-desktop-pc-7873-1071 doesn't actually have a serial port - http://www.treblig.org/pics/noserial.JPG
<hamitron> penguin42, a lot don't now, do they?
<penguin42> hamitron: Indeed - but this one says it does on the ebuyer page which is why I chose it
<hamitron> :(
<popey> no it doesn't
<popey> it says it has a serial port _header_
<popey> oh, it doesnt :)
<popey> thats bad
<AlanBell> penguin42: if you have an old motherboard with a serial port you can probably unsolder it from that and solder it on to the header dots on the new one
<AlanBell> or . . get a USB serial port and forget about the one that isn't really there on the motherboard
<ali1234> noe
<ali1234> that's an IDC header
<ali1234> just clean out the solder and put in the header
<ali1234> i do it all the time
<kvarley> I have an AMD-4455M in my laptop and everything works on Ubuntu 12.10 aside from HDMI audio output. Any ideas on what I can do to diagnose the problem?
 * popey wonders how audio would work there
<popey> http://askubuntu.com/questions/138177/upgraded-to-12-04-now-no-audio-over-amd-hdmi
<popey> http://askubuntu.com/questions/67113/fast-video-playback-with-no-sound
<kvarley> popey: I'll give them a go, thanks :)
<kvarley> popey: If this fixes it I'll be surprised. Can it really be that simple? Reboot, bye.
<MrKrinkin> hello
<cocoa117> anyone using bcm43xx wifi chipset on Ubuntu 12.04? is there region setting in the driver? i can't see my 5Ghz N network, i can see them in Win7 on the same machine
<ali1234> there probably is
<ali1234> check dmesg for entries about CRDA
<cocoa117> ali1234, enn, can't see it in dmesg
<ali1234> well it should be in there somewhere
<kvarley> popey: Tried that and as soon as I play a sound via HDMI it freezes the laptop. Disabled it and rebooted and now HDMI appears in the sound settings of Ubuntu which is weird, same issue though.
<cocoa117> ali1234, what's crda stand for?
<ali1234> central regulatory domain agent
<cocoa117> ali1234, should i use open source driver?
<ali1234> don't know
<penguin42> AlanBell: Yeh assuming it's connected
<ali1234> it definitely will be connected
<ali1234> don't try to use an old connector though... you'll just have problems
<ali1234> you need either a solder sucker or a very fine (0.5mm) drill
<ali1234> solder sucker is better
<ali1234> plus one of these http://www.rkonlinestore.co.uk/ekmps/shops/rkeducation/images/e-row-straight-pcb-header-plug-pack-of-2-572-p.jpg
<ali1234> and one of these http://www.lindy.co.uk/pc-back-plate-serial-adapter-9-way-d-male-11-wiring/33135.html
<penguin42> ali1234: Yeh I've got the backplate
<penguin42> ali1234: I'll only attack it with a soldering iron if I don't find another solution; I've asked ebuyer to send me a pci-e serial card which would seem fair
<ali1234> yeah
<ali1234> i do this mod on just about every piece of hardware i buy :)
<ali1234> mainly routers
<ali1234> AlanBell: that IP camera you have has an internal serial port on it too
<penguin42> most things do
<AlanBell> ali1234: yeah, it has
<AlanBell> I was just about to order another one
<ali1234> will be 3.3V though
<penguin42> close enough ;-)
<ali1234> not for PC, they are +/- 12V
 * penguin42 notes Comet's massive stock clearance seems to just be 10% off across the board, with some 15 or 20%
<penguin42> ali1234: Yeh, depends how fussy they feel
<ali1234> you need a level shifter, and those often don't work with USB serial
<penguin42> yeh, usb-serials are very hit and miss - hence why I don't want to go there
<ali1234> how do you add/remove effects in openshot?
<AlanBell> you put them in the timeline
<AlanBell> or between two timelines
<penguin42> anyone having problems in gimp - not letting you move the new toolbar window?
<ali1234> how do you remove them though?
<ali1234> also, how to you apple an effect only to a specific area on the video?
 * penguin42 guesses that's apply
<AlanBell> oh, sorry I was thinking transitions
<AlanBell> right click the clip with the effect, go to properties, there is an effects tab
<AlanBell> with all the effects you dropped on the clip and you can tweak them there
<ali1234> i see
<ali1234> how do you undo the razor tool?
<ali1234> and hw to you do "razor at current marker?"
<ali1234> ah you right click the marker and "slice all clips"
<AlanBell> not sure how to rejoin clips
<AlanBell> you can just but them up together and they will play fine
<ali1234> yeah but then you can't do an effect over a group of clip
<ali1234> only all or one
<ali1234> the way i fixed it was delete the secnd clip and then adjust the length on the first
<AlanBell> to make an effect fade in and out you can duplicate a clip and sync it on the next timeline without the effect and fade between them
<ali1234> i don't want it to fade
<ali1234> i want to cover up some user emails in a screen cast i just recorded
<ali1234> but i can't find a way to just cover up part of the video with an effect
<ali1234> ok, done it with mask
<ali1234> why can't effects stack?
<ali1234> like if i do mask + pixelated it should pixelate only the areas covered by the mask
<AlanBell> I think you need to do that with multiple timelines
<ali1234> well i've just blocked it with a black rectangle, that's good enough
<AlanBell> probably duplicate the video, have one blurred, one normal, and use mask to show one through the other
<cocoa117> ali1234, found crda with open source wifi driver
<cocoa117> ali1234, what's next? how to set the region and what file should modify?
<ali1234> you can't modify crda, that's the whole point
<cocoa117> ali1234, so what should be done then
<ali1234> well if it is really caused by crda, change your access point to use a channel that is allowed
<wen234> anyone know how to create a chart in libreoffice calc from raw data
<wen234> I have some raw data like a column of about 100 mixed, M and F answers - how can I create a chart with the results counted. I.e. 20 M and 30 F.
<cocoa117> ali1234, so there is nothing can be done on the client side?
<ali1234> not if the AP is misconfigured
<ali1234> if the region is wrong in your wifi card you probablyneed some obscure windows hacking tool to fix it
<AlanBell> ali1234: yeah, mask, inverted, plus blur on the top clip, then a duplicate clip on timeline 2 with no effects
<ali1234> AlanBell: i see, that kinda makes sense in a weird way
<ali1234> i'll tyr it when the video is done exporting
<cocoa117> ali1234, en, on the same machine with win7, it can see the 5Ghz network
<AlanBell> and you can use a transition between them to make the blur start and stop in an interesting way
<AlanBell> star wipe \o/
<czajkowski> AlanBell: can you ring my phone I seem to have misplaced it in the apt and cannot find  it :s
<czajkowski> pleas
<czajkowski> e
<czajkowski> found it :/
<ali1234> AlanBell: it does not work
<ali1234> oh wait, yes it does
<AlanBell> :)
<AlanBell> if you apply 0.05 blur in the mask settings that softens the edges of the area too
<ali1234> i'm using a pixelate effect
<ali1234> so no need
<AlanBell> ah, ok
<AlanBell> blur is quite sweet, you can set the start and end blurriness
<AlanBell> so you can push a region out of focus gradually
<Laney> evening
<popey> pip pip
<zleap> can i hash out lines in /etc/network/interfaces ?
<zleap> so i can keep the static ip settings in the file and use dchp at home
<ali1234> hmm openshot still does that thing where it cuts of the last second of the video
<Laney> I could (a) play games, (b) figure out rrdtool and get graphs going from the currentcost, (c) laze around on the sofa
<Laney> WHICH WILL IT BE?
<penguin42> c
<Laney> quite likely isn't it
<popey> Laney, i already did (b) for you
<Laney> i already wrote a C program which parses the XML
<popey> http://popey.com/~alan/house/scripts/
<popey> ah okay :)
<popey> I use perl
<Laney> however
<popey> reluctantly
<Laney> that is useful because I currently don't know how rrdtool works
<Laney> 16.9
<Laney> 00174
<Laney> the current temp and wattage
<popey> http://popey.com/house/ erk
<popey> washing machine and tumble dryer both on :S
<popey> ~5KW
<Laney> wow
<Laney> the y axis on the longer term graphs is too small so i can't tell what your baseline is
<penguin42> popey: Any idea what they each take, and does your washer heat the water or does it take hot in?
<popey> i haven't individually checked each, no
<penguin42> nod
<AlanBell> my cooker can draw 52 amps
<penguin42> heck
<AlanBell> yeah
 * penguin42 occasionally wonders if there is a more energy efficient way to cook rice pudding; they take about 90mins
<AlanBell> I bought it, planning to install it myself
<AlanBell> saw that in the manual and chickened out
<penguin42> AlanBell: I hadn't realised they were that high - yeh I'd want someone who undestood high current stuff
<AlanBell> induction hob
<penguin42> ah
<penguin42> AlanBell: So does that go on one 60A circuit or something?
<AlanBell> yes, new fat cable back to the consumer unit
<penguin42> through a socket or direct?
<AlanBell> direct
<AlanBell> there is a chunky switch too
<penguin42> nod; I think you can get 63A commando sockets - not sure if you're allowed to use them in a home
 * popey makes a bacon double cheeseburger for tea
<popey> yay, we have an induction hob
<popey> love it
<AlanBell> the electric oven that it replaced just plugged in to a socket
 * hamitron has one of them small induction hobs to go on the work surface, for his chip pan
<AlanBell> czajkowski: I mentioned earlier that Laura had lost her phone, the kids said "auntie Laura, or geek Laura?"
<czajkowski> lol
<popey> :)
<czajkowski> laura was a bit addled while packing up things and packed her phone :/
<AlanBell> packing \o/
<czajkowski> not exactly the same emotion here :)
<popey> where you going?
 * czajkowski is going to aldershot 
<czajkowski> same landlord as before, just moving to his other house near the train station
<popey> oh cool
<popey> just down the road
<czajkowski> :)
<popey> Daviey, another victim for co-working space :)
<czajkowski> :)
<christel> czajkowski: when do you move again? first week of december? :)
<christel> popey: didnt you convert your garage? :)
<czajkowski> christel: yup I have the keys from the 24th
<czajkowski> of novemeber
<christel> \o/
<czajkowski> but that's the weekend my sister is over so may just get a zip car on the tuesday and drive down
<popey> christel, not finished
<christel> i went and looked at some offices in farnham the other day but they were way too large for just m e
<christel> me*
<AlanBell> did you see the clockhouse offices christel?
<christel> yes
<AlanBell> any good?
<christel> fine (boringly dull in a magnolia kind of way but entirely clean/tidy/modern looking etc)
<czajkowski> christel: add some graffiti art to any wall and it brightens it up
<AlanBell> boringly dull sounds perfect to me
<christel> :)
<christel> you guys looking to move already?
<AlanBell> I like an office that contrasts with my sparkling personality
<christel> ah yes, i guess you Need More Space when you hire another alan
<christel> haha
<AlanBell> we just turned down a bigger suite in the Granary, we don't need it yet (and it was quite a bit more money)
<christel> *nod*
<AlanBell> interviewing two people next week, neither of them are called Alan.
<christel> yeah, the smallest office i viewed was 400/pcm (all inclusive) for about 100sqft
<czajkowski> bah ireland were winning against SA
<czajkowski> bah
<christel> it was slightly smaller than yours i think but differently shaped
<AlanBell> christel: that is not far off what we are paying, but to go bigger we would be looking at 800+vat
<popey> outrage!
<czajkowski> rob..
<christel> *nod*
<czajkowski> oh wait wrong channel
<czajkowski> :p
<christel> thats a pretty hefty jump
<AlanBell> which is fine, but we can keep the one we have with three people for a bit
<christel> *nod*
<christel> im slightly on the fence, i want to rent an office but at the same time it would be kind of pointless for me to rent an office and go sit in an office on my own all day when my main motivator is the fact that i get dreadful cabin fever (more so since moving out in the sticks i guess)
<christel> though i guess i could go for lunchtime wanders and STARE at people :D
<brobostigon> migrate the office to a pub. :)
<czajkowski> christel: could you approach a business and ask to rent a desk off them?
<czajkowski> liek where G wrks?
<christel> brobostigon: i sometimes do, but then i end up on the vodka ;)
<brobostigon> christel: lol, it isnt such a bad idea, but yes, has its downsides, :)
<SuperEngineer> 63
<SuperEngineer> it's 6 less than 69... no point... just like the fear of moving
<christel> czajkowski: czajkowski dunno, i dont really know any random businesses with space (gareths work is struggling for space and impractical anyway, what with being both a client of mine and a competitor) ;)
<Yellowwinner> hi
<AlanBell> hi Yellowwinner
<czajkowski> christel: ah yes true
<czajkowski> christel: guarantee though f you put and add up saying you were looking to share space/rent space youd find somewhere
<christel> possibly, im still holding out for popeys garage collapsing so that he'll look for a coworking space with me instead ;)
<christel> (I MIGHT OR MIGHT NOT BE PLANNING TO REMOVE STRUCTURAL ELEMENTS TO MAKE THIS HAPPEN)
<czajkowski> lo
<czajkowski> l
<Yellowwinner> hey everybody I am working on a game on ubuntu and I need some help with somethings (like graphics) and I want to know if someone wants to help me.
<Yellowwinner> thanks
<popey> Yellowwinner, ali1234 or gord may be able to help
<ali1234> heh
<ali1234> i'm not much good at drawing
<popey> well, depends on the question of course :D
<popey> i may have misunderstood the question then :)
<popey> ali1234, mpt or ev on irc are the people I mentioned on G+
<AlanBell> need more details
<Yellowwinner> just a sec I will pull up the fourm link
<Yellowwinner> that I made
<Yellowwinner> http://www.thatbigforum.com/post220701.html#p220701
<ali1234> popey: yeah, already looked them up, cheers. they're not online, i guess it's the weekend, or i was looking the wrong channels.
<popey> hmm, minecraft.net down..
<Yellowwinner> yea i checked minecraft and it was down :C
<popey> yeah, looking at evs facebook he's eating a delicious burger in london somewhere :)
<czajkowski> I know
<czajkowski> I want that burger so much
<czajkowski> bar the cheese
<Yellowwinner> here is my game post
<Yellowwinner> http://www.thatbigforum.com/post220701.html#p220701
<aaast> BLOATWARE SMELL IS KILLING ME SOFTLY
<aaast> IKONIA IS RIGHT, MAYBE IT IS WAY TOO SMELLY TO EVEN MENTION IT. IT IS EMBARRASING SITUATION WHERE THE BLOATWARE IS ALL OVER THE PLACE
<aaast> BLOATWARE SMELL IS KILLING ME SOFTLY
<ikonia> please sto
<ikonia> stop
<ikonia> you've just got banned for this crap, don't start here
<aaast> WHAT U GONNA DO FUCKER?
<aaast> SEND COMPLAINT AGAIN?
<ikonia> excellent,
<aaast> MOTHERFUCKER
<ikonia> can't you just join in a channel without being silly and rude ?
<SuperEngineer> AlanBell: thank you
<AlanBell> I didn't do anything
<AlanBell> he managed to find the door before I showed him where it was
<SuperEngineer> :) let's hope he fell down the stairs outside the door1
<ikonia> sorry about him
<soreau> ikonia: we know it's all your fault
<ikonia> it is
<SuperEngineer> Weee... [new TV conxns stylie] success!  TV claims to have one SCART socket "for input only"
<SuperEngineer> hmmm... if you know SCART sockets you alsoknow they're 2 way!
<SuperEngineer> TV sound now playing through surround sound sys :)
<ali1234> well scart are always wired up different :)
<SuperEngineer> ali1234: yup... rule 1 know your SCART... make it your friend ;)
<AlanBell> davmor2: up for beer/food on Thursday still?
<soreau> silly european engineering ;)
<SuperEngineer> next step... get extra vga cable... use [so far never touched] kvm switch and switch video from monitor to TV at will ;)
<ali1234> hmm a KVM can do that?
<SuperEngineer> ...& leave pc output going through the sound system [tv built in audio not good]
<SuperEngineer> ali1234: ooo yes it can... use the "v" [video] connection only... leave keyboard & mouse in control of pc
<ali1234> yeah... you;re using it backwards too though, right?
<ali1234> i guess VGA is analogue
<SuperEngineer> nope.
<ali1234> nope?
<SuperEngineer> pc video out
<SuperEngineer> going to monitor or tv
<ali1234> a KVM is generally used with two PCs and one monitor though
<ali1234> so you connect the PC video out to the output of the KVM, and then the monitor and TV to the two inputs? hence using it backwards
<SuperEngineer> ...or oc, server etc going to 1 monitor... in that sense - you are right - I'm using it backwards ;)
<SuperEngineer> but i *am* SuperEngineer I guess
<AlanBell> SuperEngineer: if you have composite video out then it probably works as a dual head setup
<ali1234> ew composite
<AlanBell> so you can have your monitor on, and the tv as a second (low resolution) screen
<ali1234> just get a graphics card with two VGA, or DVI+VGA
<AlanBell> yeah, much better off using hdmi/dvi if your telly can do that
<SuperEngineer> AlanBell: exactly that... I only want to use it to view get-iplayer'd videos of f1 races etc
<ali1234> i was thinking VGA for the TV actually
<ali1234> if it's scart
<AlanBell> didn't know you could feed VGA to scart
<AlanBell> it has RGB and it has composite
<ali1234> RGB is low refresh rate VGA
<SuperEngineer> AlanBell: no hdmi on pooter :(  [I'm going for near zero cost option here]
<ali1234> you need some magic but it is possible
<ali1234> basically a sync combiner and a graphics driver that lets you do super low res modes - they should all do it now, because i reported bugs on them all
<ali1234> sync combiner = 1 transistor
<ali1234> and ATI cards i think don't even need that
<lazarus_> Python (v2.7) requires to install plugins to create media files of the following type: MPEG-1 Layer 3 (MP3) encoder how do i fix this issue on ubuntu 12.10 64bit
<SuperEngineer> ...& the SCART bit is a separate "thing"... trhat was tonight's projext re sound
<SuperEngineer> ... the pc to TV is not going to use the SCART... pc is sending it's own sound signal to sound sys separately
<ali1234> http://www.nexusuk.org/projects/vga2scart/circuit
<SuperEngineer> ooo
<SuperEngineer> ..as in video output through vga to TV, sound output to sound sys via audio out signal to the surround sys
<SuperEngineer> [yedh... I'm a cheap skate!] ;)
<SuperEngineer> in fact - for cost of 1 extra vga cable [have other spare 1 required in car boot, so free]... pc to tv for Â£1-vga-cable
<ali1234> if TV has VGA, by all means use it. the VGA to SCART is only really suited to old CRTs that can't do VGA native
<SuperEngineer> ali1234: agreed
<ali1234> and for those it is very nice eg if you use mythtv on it. te picture looks like it does with a STB. you can't get that any other way.
<ali1234> also good for retro emulaton
<ali1234> since it's pixel accurate... and those old 8 bit machines actually relied on that to get their full colour space
<ali1234> eg VICE actually has PAL emulation for this reason - though you don't need it with a real CRT
<SuperEngineer> ali1234: talking of retro emulation...
<ali1234> yes?
<SuperEngineer> does/is it possible to use games emulator ROMs from windoze in a linux environment - i.e Ubuntu
<ali1234> sure
<ali1234> they are just ROM dumps
<Bassetts> The ROMs will work on any platform as long as you have an emulator for your platform
<ali1234> there are standard formats for each target system and all emulators support the most common ones
<ali1234> regardless of host platform
<SuperEngineer> ... MAME ok I assume
<SuperEngineer> ?
<ali1234> yeah , fine
<ali1234> it's the same software
<SuperEngineer> cool, thanks
<ali1234> the only place you might have problems is with snapshots or freeze or state files, and to a lesser extent memory card files. those usually aren't compatible between different emulators
 * SuperEngineer downloads MAME
<SuperEngineer> ...only 1 way to find out
<ali1234> but if it's just a port of the same softwae even that should be ok, barring endian issues... which you won't run into going between two OS on the same hardware
<SuperEngineer> :)
<ali1234> hmm i think i am seeing the effect of these "delayed error reports"
<ali1234> just got a crash message from openshot. i quit it about 2 hours ago
<ali1234> and why does "show details" still take absolutely forever?
<df___> jpds,ping
<df___> I have Ubuntu running on my laptop, but currently I am dual booting
<df___> can anyone help me set up Ubuntu on a virtual box to save room on my laptop?
<StevenR> hrrm.. does someone here have a nexus 7?
<AlanBell> df___: virtualbox is kind of easy, just like installing on a real machine. Not sure how it helps save room though
<df___> jpds, are you home
<AlanBell> !weekend
<lubotu3`> It's a weekend. Often on weekends the paid developers and a lot of the community may not be around to answer your question. Please be patient, wait longer than you normally would or try again during the working week.
<df___> thanks alanbell
<df___> AlanBell: I currently have two operating systems installed on my laptop. Would running a virtual box enable me to save room by uninstalling my Ubuntu operation system
<AlanBell> depends how much diskspace you give it really
<df___> ah
<AlanBell> if you have a 20gig partition for Ubuntu now, and you remove that and make a 20GB virtual machine, you haven't really made a heap of difference
<df___> I wish there was a way to run my iTunes on Ubuntu
<popey> StevenR, i do
<df___> because I would then just use the one operating system
<StevenR> popey: how do you find it? I'm considering buying one... partially for standing in my kitchen with recipies on it, also for other stuff
<AlanBell> ask Apple to support it on Ubuntu
<popey> StevenR, its okay :)
<df___> AlanBell: lol.....not sure it that would happen
<AlanBell> dunno, it happened on Windows somehow
<AlanBell> but anyhow, it is their problem
<popey> +1
<popey> same for adobe photoshop
<AlanBell> I should think it would suit Apple quite nicely to split the windows competition across two platforms
<AlanBell> if Apple stopped supporting Windows for iTunes, and twisted Adobe's arm into doing the same and switching to Ubuntu as the compeition they wanted to compete with then that would be really interesting
<StevenR> popey: does it behave just like a "big android phone" or is there more to it?
<AlanBell> StevenR: we have one for the kitchen, it is quite popular
<df___> AlanBell: Not so much a problem rather thank an inconvenience. Basically I prefer to use Ubuntu. But before my Ubuntu days I purchased all of my music and media from Apple. I recently bought a computer with windows pre installed. I just want to be able to listen to my music while I am working on Ubuntu
<AlanBell> does recipes, music to a bluetooth music receiver plugged into some speakers, and does angry birds
<AlanBell> <insert rant about DRM, lock in and proprietary platforms here>
<popey> StevenR, i guess
<popey> I am not a fan of android tbh
<Daviey> hater!
<df___> AlanBell: I would love to see Apple on Ubuntu but I do not think this will happen :)
<AlanBell> if I was in charge of Apple that is the first thing I would do
<StevenR> df___: close your laptop lid, place an apple on the closed lid. Apple on Ubuntu. DONE. :D
<AlanBell> "people who are not our customers appear to be giving money to our competitor, lets stop that happening"
<df___> StevenR: lol that was funny
<df___> thanks guys
 * StevenR makes a big sign saying "AlanBell for Apple CEO 2013"
<AlanBell> yay
<zleap> hi oly
<penguin42> StevenR: Given the rate at which the Beeb are going through bosses, it might be an easier starting point
<StevenR> penguin42: I suppose AlanBell could take over the beeb this year, and that would give him a run up to take over apple in 2013
<penguin42> sounds easy for him
<cocoa117> anyone know why i can see the 5ghz list in my iwlist eth1 channel, but i can't see it on my wifi network list of my 5ghz network
<cocoa117> i mean 5ghz AP
<xnox> cocoa117: same here with intel wifi n. I guess the card doesn't support it.
<xnox> cause i can only connect to lower onces.
<penguin42> yeh I've had similar behaviour
<cocoa117> xnox, do u mean card driver don't support it? i am using propertory driver
<penguin42> there's a bug somewhere for it
<cocoa117> penguin42, bug in the network-manager?
<xnox> cocoa117: no, the hardware doesn't support it.
<cocoa117> xnox, my hardware does support it
<cocoa117> xnox, i can access 5ghz band width with win7 on the same machine
<xnox> cocoa117: i see.
<cocoa117> xnox, it used to work with older version of ubuntu
<penguin42> cocoa117: Possibly bug 974674 - but I could swear there was an olderone
<lubotu3`> Launchpad bug 974674 in linux (Ubuntu) "8086:4229 Unable to connect to 5Ghz Wireless Network Intel 4965" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/974674
<cocoa117> now it just don't work with 12.04
<penguin42> oh I'd seen it on 10.04, I've not tried 12.x on that network yet
#ubuntu-uk 2012-11-11
<dogmatic69> anyone know how I can setup my server to allow 'sudo service php5-fpm restart' without the sudo?
<dogmatic69> Would like to do it with auto deploys etc.
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: deploy packages, the init scripts run as root and can do this :)
<MartijnVdS> reprepro + puppet FTW
<dogmatic69> MartijnVdS: deploy packeges?
<dogmatic69> is that an app?
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<dwatkins> hiya brobostigon et al
<brobostigon> hi dwatkins
 * dwatkins is currently considering buying a disk drive to use as a cold spare for his main machine
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: no, I mean, package up the software into a deb and deploy that
<directhex> dogmatic69, do you *mean* "without sudo", or "without password"?
<directhex> both have security implementations. "without sudo" is worse IMHO
<popey> afternoon all
<czajkowski> ello
<AlanBell> hi
<bigcalm> Hi kids :)
<mrmist-> I SMELL BLOATWARE IN HERE.
<mrmist-> I SMELL BLOATWARE IN HERE.
<mrmist-> fag:)
<mrmist-> I SMELL BLOATWARE IN HERE.
<mrmist-> I SMELL BLOATWARE IN HERE.
<mrmist-> I SMELL BLOATWARE IN HERE.
<penguin42> oh it's him again
<mrmist-> him?
<mrmist-> SATAN?
<mrmist-> I SMELL BLOATWARE IN HERE.
<mrmist-> I SMELL BLOATWARE IN HERE.
<mrmist-> I SMELL BLOATWARE IN HERE.
<mrmist-> ubuntu stinks. No wonder only nerds with greasy hair use it.
<czajkowski> mrmist-: please stop
<mrmist-> czajkowski
<mrmist-> why are you being so offended?
<mrmist-> Ubuntu is shite, admit it. Ask anyone, they will tell you the same thing, it is bloated and it is not good for any user with average PC.
<mrmist-> fags.
 * dwatkins yawns
<dwatkins> Is it christmas already?
<penguin42> no
<dwatkins> just wondering, as some 10 year-old appears to have received a new computer (see childish spam above)
<penguin42> ah
<penguin42> sigh - my dads machine kernel panics on Quantal if we plug it through a KVM
<penguin42> he really should take a job as a tester
<SuperEngineer> pondering re BBC's next Newsnight broadcast... claim Wimdoze is a good OS!!??  :D
<zleap> lol
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: I'm still waiting for the conspiracy nuts story of the FBI causing Sandy
 * AlanBell is in trouble
<penguin42> ?
<AlanBell> impractical geeky bagel slicing
<AlanBell> if they are going to puchase food that is a torus, then it is going to get cut in a geometrically interesting way
<penguin42> AlanBell: But if you cut it into a mobius strip which side do you put the butter on?
<AlanBell> if you do a double twist you get two interlocking rings
<AlanBell> which is cool and all
<AlanBell> "can I have mine toasted?" becomes a bit of an issue though
<penguin42> yeh
<SuperEngineer> AlanBell: I think my twittwr reply might saqy what you suspect all along ;)
<ali1234> re: sandy, i already read a web comment somewhere saying Obama did it using HAARP
<SuperEngineer> *say
<penguin42> ali1234: HAARP?
<AlanBell> SuperEngineer: yeah, whole family thinks I am odd
<ali1234> yes, it's what the tinfoil hat brigade think is the US government earthquake and hurricane control machine
<ali1234> really it's just a super long wave radio experiment
<SuperEngineer> penguin42: but, surely that *was* caused by their own wind machine
 * SuperEngineer starts rumour on behalf of...
<SuperEngineer> AlanBell:  ;)
<SuperEngineer> penguin42: HAARP... see MUSE
<popey> AlanBell, Photos of bagel cutting pls
<popey> I want to do same
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: Hmm nice picture of it http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Frequency_Active_Auroral_Research_Program
<AlanBell> warning, may cause arguments
<AlanBell> http://www.npr.org/blogs/krulwich/2012/11/08/164682556/mathematically-challenging-bagels
<SuperEngineer> penguin42: yeh... I know
<ali1234> AlanBell: that picture looks familiar to meL
<ali1234> http://math.stackexchange.com/questions/166813/motion-on-a-parametric-surface
<AlanBell> ali1234: oh yes your racing game :)
<AlanBell> also, if you stick a skewer down a baguette and cut around it you can make one big helix
<AlanBell> and also get shouted at
 * SuperEngineer listens to "Random Rhymes and Rambles"
<SuperEngineer> [& it is intresting to hear what was said when the stream kept dropping ;) ]
<ali1234> if you slice the bagel with a half twist you get a mobius
<ali1234> well, if you go around twice with half twist each time
<AlanBell> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6Vuh16r8o8 only once, but with a half twist, but you can't get the thing apart like that
 * SuperEngineer does a vitual hum of "let's twist again" to ali1234 
<ali1234> AlanBell: yes, that's assuming that only the crust represents "surface"
<ali1234> if instead of cutting it you squashed it down to zero thickness along the cut, you would get a mobius
<AlanBell> ah right, yes, you have to go round twice if you only put the knife halfway through as you cut it :)
<ali1234> hmm, not what i meant
<ali1234> you only go around once like the video
<AlanBell> yeah, but the knife is going all the way through, so cutting the surface at two points as it goes
<ali1234> ah yeah
<ali1234> i see what you mean
<ali1234> yes, if you went in half way you'd go around twice with a single cut and meet back at the start
<ali1234> ie like drawing a line all the way around a mobius strip - you go around twice and meet at the start
 * SuperEngineer nominates #ununtu-uk fotr the Freat British Bake-Off
<SuperEngineer> *Great
<DJones> SuperEngineer: I wasn't sure whether you meant Great or Freak with that word mangling :)
<SuperEngineer> DJones: probably... both!
 * penguin42 wonders if anyone has trained a robot/laser cutter to do that to a bagel
<SuperEngineer> penguin42: I suggest a ctter [Red dwarf] might have that skill as standard
<SuperEngineer> Scutter
<penguin42> Skutters according to wikipedia
 * SuperEngineer curses these speed keyboarding lessons - they don't work!
<SuperEngineer> [time to go back to looking at screen when pumping keys!]
<SuperEngineer> wibble...
<SuperEngineer> [podcast reference there]
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: Perhaps you need a http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Das_Keyboard
<SuperEngineer> penguin42: ;)
<hcfd> Nein Das Keyboard!
<hcfd> HHKB Pro ftw :)
 * penguin42 prefers a Model M
 * hcfd looks at his M gathering dust
<penguin42> hcfd: If you don't want it you should be able to get 30 or more for it
<hcfd> Definitely.  Still, the time and effort required to list on eBay, package it up, post it.. I dunno, I never get around to it!
<hcfd> HHKB wins on Ctrl key placement, feel, size, overall layout. Most of all, the portability means I can move from machine to machine and always have a HHKB to type on :)
<hcfd> Also, an M doesn't have a Windows/Mac/Super key.
<penguin42> indeed it doesn't have a w/m/s key - but I don't use them
<penguin42> has anyone ever tried getting PCs to switch on automatically using their inbuilt clock; I want something to take a pic every 30 mins
<Darael> Don't know how doable that is (it may be!  I just don't know), but alternative technique: use a second machine and wake-on-LAN?
<YaManicKill> my old computer's BIOS could wake itself up, but it was limited to only 1 time.
<penguin42> Darael: I want to put a laptop to do this unconnected to anything
<penguin42> YaManicKill: Well I was assuming that when it woke up I could set another timeout
<YaManicKill> hmmm yeah, but this is using the BIOS...so not configurable from the OS is it?
<penguin42> hmm - looks like the nvram-wakeup package should be able to do it
<Darael> Excellent.
 * penguin42 suspects there is a lot of system dependent magic
<Darael> YaManicKill: BIOS things are occasionally reachable from the OS, but it usually requires some Windows-only utility.  I've seen it particularly on Foxconn+Nvidia desktop mobos.
<YaManicKill> interesting, good one to add to the list of "Thing that will be eventually useful but I don't know what for yet"
<penguin42> Darael: Don't forget this stuff is a decades old feature
<directhex> penguin42, it's called "wake on RTC" and i know MythTV integrates it into its scheduler
<penguin42> directhex: Interesting - I really want it here for some camera monitoring (of a boiler!)
<Darael> penguin42: Wake-on-internal-clock is, yes.  The utility seemed to have /all/ the BIOS settings in it, though.  Some things weren't alterable online (like bus clock speeds), presumably for safety reasons, but a remarkable amount was.
<penguin42> Darael: Nice
<penguin42> Darael: Does seem to depend on being able to find the settings for the particular motherboard/bios
<penguin42> ooh - kernel facility, no need to use nvram-wake
<Darael> Ooh, /excellent/.
<penguin42> sets an alarm and waits
<penguin42> http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/ACPI_Wakeup#Using_.2Fsys.2Fclass.2Frtc.2Frtc0.2Fwakealarm
<penguin42> place your bets now, it should come back in 2 mins
<penguin42> blimey - it has done
<Darael> Very good.  Very good indeed.
<Darael> I shall remember that one.  I'm sure it'll come in useful at some point.
#ubuntu-uk 2013-11-04
<MooDoo> morning all
<diplo> Morning all
<Myrtti> morning
<TheOpenSourcerer> Morning all.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Yet another "inset"day... I don't remember these at all when I was at school.
<popey> my code club school have one tomorrow.
<popey> so no code club this week
<diplo> Mine are both off as well TheOpenSourcerer, today and tomorrow
<diplo> And 2 days at the end of the week before last
<TheOpenSourcerer> gosh diplo that's mad!
<diplo> Yep, had a rather heated arguement with a couple of teachers
<TheOpenSourcerer> So they've basically had a 2 week half term
<diplo> And we agreed to disagree in the end, yep!
<TheOpenSourcerer> lol
<diplo> They came back at me with well we work these hours and we do this and we do that.
<popey> uhm
<popey> they are at work on the inset days
<diplo> I said funnily enough I work more hours than you for less pay and less holiday and I havent striked yet
<popey> its not additional days off
<diplo> But it's additional days off for me! Why not take them in the school holidays
<popey> because thats their contracted holiday
<popey> would you give up your family holiday and go back to work
<diplo> Nope, not the whole lot, they don't have all the holidays off
<popey> I didn't say all
<AlanBell> #blameKennethBaker
<diplo> But my point is, don't close the school. We don't close our offices because people need training.
<popey> you probably have more redundancy than most schools
<popey> don't you want your teachers trained?
<ali1234> take your kids to work
<ali1234> problem solved
<popey> and if you aren't at your desk there aren't 20/30 people sat around doing nothing as a result (as is the case for school)
<BigRedS> popey: there is a difference between "train the teachers when they aren't at school" and "don't train the teachers"
<ali1234> yeah as if they would be "sat around doing nothing"
<ali1234> more like starting a riot
<BigRedS> much as I don't follow the bewilderment at inset days
<popey> heh, true
<TheOpenSourcerer> Anyone fancy a free Galaxy Tab (Think it's an old one but it's "free")... http://www.trefor.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/Mailing_LONAP_EN.html
<ali1234> it takes about 5 minutes of no teacher for a classroom full of kids to turn into lord of the flies
<TheOpenSourcerer> You just have to visit every stand at a trade show.
<BigRedS> ali1234: sounds like a valuable educational experience
<BigRedS> TheOpenSourcerer: I can't help but wonder just how awful a show must be to make bribing people with a tablet viable
<popey> heh
<TheOpenSourcerer> lol - Smasung are sponsoring and it's their old tab. They've probably got millions sitting in a drawer somwhere.
 * popey ponders breakfast
<Myrtti> I'm wondering if today will be a mini-Christmas
<Myrtti> I'm waiting for all kinds of deliveries, including socks, spices, phone cases, handkerchiefs, and phones.
 * popey wonders where his 3doodler is
 * xnox hates my local pub, walked up for a full english breakfast, but they are still closed =(
<BigRedS> 'hate' seems rather strong for that...
<Myrtti> popey: turns out someone has been participating in so many Kickstarter campaigns he's polluted our Avocado "Waiting to be delivered" list with them
<popey> â»
<popey> Egg Banjo!
<jussi> popey: sounds messy...?
<mungbean> its always spooky when you accidentally click on an exe file in linux and wine just pops the application up
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<jussi> morning brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning jussi
<jussi> mungbean: brings back memories from1999 :P
<bashrc> morning
<brobostigon> morning bashrc
<mungbean> what's the equivalent of kazam for windows? need to screencast a bug
<popey> fraps
<mungbean> thx
<mungbean> i am proud to be a windows noob nowadsys
<BigRedS> haha, I got a replacement board and graphics card for my windows pc over the weekend. Suddenyl realised I had no idea how to install the right drivers etc.
<BigRedS> Not sure I'm *proud* of it but it's nice to not be able to fix most people's computers for them :)
<mungbean> mud sticks
<mungbean> and i have a wide family
<mungbean> (they're not fat)
<popey> mungbean: so you've exhausted all your distro & desktop swaps and the only option left was Windows?
<mungbean> i had to test a bug reported by a user
<mungbean> you may be surprised to hear this but...
<mungbean> i've been happy on elementary for over a year
<mungbean> my DE usage has gone from KDE->gnome2->every DE under the sun for 1 yr->elementary
<mungbean> my home laptop is on unity for the missis
<popey> phew
<mungbean> at some point during the wandering years i've become an LTS man
<mungbean> i think thats age + time available for tinkering
<mungbean> elementary setup is v v similar to how i had gonem2 anyway
<mungbean> popey: when learning git, was there a particular tutorial you followed?
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Use Your Common Sense Day! :-D
<BigRedS> so I don't need to for the rest of the year?
<JamesTait> "The problem with common sense is it ain't that common."
<jussi> JamesTait: isnt that day everyday?
<popey> mungbean: the one Lorna Jane posted
<JamesTait> jussi, I wish someone had told the rest of the world that. ;)
<jussi> JamesTait: ++
<popey> mungbean:
<popey> bah
<popey> http://teach.github.com/presentations/git-foundations.html#/
<MooDoo> JamesTait: i've got non, does that mean my day can't be happy?
<mungbean> cheers
<JamesTait> MooDoo, you can be happy marvelling at the common sense of those around you. :-P
<MooDoo> JamesTait: I work in tech support, there is non in here ;)
<mungbean> i have a user who runs all of his appliactions from another server even though his own pc can run them fine. e.g. openoffice, xdvi, etc, etc, all X displayed
<mungbean> this is the user who suffered serious stress when asked to change his password
<BigRedS> it's not uncommon for users to carry on with what works even when there's an apparently technically better solution
<mungbean> yeah, they all continued logging ont that server to run pine even though they could run pine on their own pc, a problem that went away in the 90s
<Myrtti> stupid Parcelforce
<BigRedS> mungbean: yeah, but did logging on to the server to run pine ever stop working?
<BigRedS> I still apparently do things to solve long-solved problems simply because there's never been a particularly good reason to stop
<BigRedS> I think that's the reasoning behind most of my annoyance at Ubunt or Unity
<dubaco_1> hardware: asus k53u software: ubuntu 13.10 internet connection: virgin media 30 mbps breadband, recording an actual speed of 16.6289062 Mbps. why am i unable to streem a bbc iplayer radio programme then?
<BigRedS> dubaco_1: what happens when you try?
<dubaco_1> i can stream tv. no issue, no buffering... when i try radio it says i have insuffficient bandwidth
<dubaco_1> i cant stream google play movies though
<dubaco_1> i can listen to radiosveriges p3 no issues.
<dubaco_1> BigRedS, *
<BigRedS> sorry, ended up on the phone
<BigRedS> dubaco_1: not that I can be particularly helpful; seems the BBC's just mis-estimating your bandwidth
<BigRedS> which is weird; I use iplayer radio all the time and I don't think I've ever had that
<BigRedS> a workaround would be to get_iplayer it, but without knowing the BBC's metrics it's going to be hard to tell what's wrong there
<dubaco_1> get_iplayer wont work anymore
<BigRedS> wont it? I used it the other day for telly stuff
<BigRedS> not tried on radio for a while, though
<popey> get_iplayer doesn't work for radio
<davmor2> Morning all
<BigRedS> when did that happen?
<BigRedS> looks okay to me: http://paste.ubuntu.com/6358192/
<popey> hmm, didnt for me
<popey> odd
<mungbean> ERROR: Failed to get version pid metadata from iplayer site
<mungbean> BigRedS: that works for me too
<mungbean> gonna try again
<BigRedS> mungbean: that looked more like failure than "works for me too" :)
<mungbean> i tried your command rather than my own
<BigRedS> ohh
<BigRedS> I haven't checked that the audio file works, though
<mungbean> ./get_iplayer shaun --get
<mungbean> yep, works
<mungbean> v2.82
<BigRedS> I've got 2.83-1 out of the 13.10 repos
<mungbean> ooh look at you
<mungbean> ;)
<BigRedS> haha
<BigRedS> gotta keep up-to-date with command-line means of watching the telly
<mungbean> anyone want a free flight from brisbane to melbourne?
<mungbean> 31 dec
<mungbean> ordered by another mr mungbean who doesn't know his own email
<mungbean> i can also change the flight :-|
<BigRedS> haha
<directhex> mungbean,  http://xkcd.com/1279/
<mungbean> relevant++
<mungbean> wish i'd realised this when i thought i was being clever by snatching m.mungbean rather than mungo.mungbean@gmail.com
 * popey logs into his gmail account for the first time in a while
<BigRedS> If I add a facebook account to Online Accounts does it do anything more than enable chat in Empathy? I'm trying to use Empathy but it doesn't seem to want tot talk to Facebook or Google via XMPP
<directhex> BigRedS, google blocked external xmpp
<directhex> BECAUSE FREEDOM
<popey> ah look, a mail from a curtain company to someone called Alan Pope
<BigRedS> directhex: external xmpp works in pidgin
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<BigRedS> directhex: oh, google the noun not google the verb
<directhex> BigRedS, i mean you can't xmpp a google user from a non-google user
<BigRedS> yeah, I'm a google user - I've always just plugged my google account details into pidgin
<BigRedS> and then I get google talk in my IM client
<directhex> also, google hangouts is not xmpp. google talk was
<BigRedS> still is, it seems
<BigRedS> This works in Pidgin on this machine, but not in Empathy, so I'm unconvinced the problem's at Google
<Myrtti> the only thing that broke with gtalk <--> gtalk thing with the new Hangouts is that Empathy can't do the video call anymore
<Myrtti> as far as I can tell
<BigRedS> ah, do you have google working in empathy?
<MooDoo> seems to work ok, although I don't have my laptop with me at the moment.
<Myrtti> I can do chat with it to SO using Hanouts on his mobile
<Myrtti> Hangouts, even
<ali1234> empathy never could do video
<ali1234> i mean it said it could, but it never actually worked
<Myrtti> ali1234: oh ok, I must've dreamed it then.
<BigRedS> MooDoo: ah, fair enough. Do you know if you configured it as an XMPP account or as a Google one?
<davmor2> ali1234: it worked for me before now but it is ugly
<BigRedS> I'm a bit concerned at Google or Facebook taking over other things that I don't want them to if I add them as an "Online Account" rather than as a jabber account
<ali1234> the reason it does not work is because gtalk uses a proprietary codec
<ali1234> empathy <-> empathy over gtalk works
<ali1234> if the other person is using an official google clientm you cannot talk to them
<BigRedS> bah.
<davmor2> ali1234: ah yeah that would be why we were both testing empathy at the time :)
<BigRedS> can empathy use whatever it is that pidgin uses?
<ali1234> pidgin has the same problem
<ali1234> and yes, it can use libpurple plugins
<ali1234> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pidgin/+bug/735651 here is the bug i reported about this two and a half years ago
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 735651 in pidgin (Ubuntu) "pidgin <-> google talk video calling does not work" [Undecided,New]
<BigRedS> Oh, I'm not interested in video
<BigRedS> all I want is textual xmpp
<ali1234> works fine
<BigRedS> mine doesn't
<ali1234> well, empathy is probably broken
<ali1234> it works fine in pidgin as an XMPP account
<BigRedS> yeah, I don't doubt that. But I wonder how it's broken such that I can XMPP to work's jabber server but not to google's
<BigRedS> yeah, and all of them work fine in pidgin
<BigRedS> but the 'indicator' in the top bar is actually a menu button and the closest I can get to working indicators is the left bar
<ali1234> no idea what you mean
<BigRedS> bug 1243240
<lubotu3> bug 1243240 in indicator-messages (Ubuntu) "It is unclear what sort of unread message is being indicated" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1243240
<BigRedS> so, to get the feature whereby I can see unread emails and unread IMs as different things I need to use the icons on the left bar, I think. But Pidgin doesn't integrate into that
<penguin42> ali1234: Very few of them work with each other, I was at a meeting where we tried to do video/audio conf with free tools and pretty much failed
<BigRedS> I did find a howto, but just using Empathy appeared easier, especially since it's apparently the blessed IM app and so I assumed least-broken
<ali1234> BigRedS: pidgin shows you unread emails as well as IMs anyway, so that's impossible
<BigRedS> ali1234: what?
<BigRedS> I've never known pidgin show me emails
<ali1234> you probably don't have any email accounts added to it
 * penguin42 has never noticed a way to add email to it
<mungbean> pidgin stores a lot in clear text
<BigRedS> oh, no. is it a mail reader?
<ali1234> just add a XMPP account for gtalk. when you get gmail, pidgin tells you
<mungbean> like your gmail chat passwords
<ali1234> same with MSN/hotmail
<BigRedS> ali1234: is there some bonus to that? I don't want my emails in my IM client
<mungbean> notifications, not emails
<BigRedS> my actual problem is that I want two icons - one of which tells me if I have unread email and another that tells me if I have unread IMs
<ali1234> well the bonus is that i don't have to run thunderbird and let it download all 4GB of email just to get an alert when i've got a new mail, which i will read in a browser anyway because thunderbird is rubbish
<mungbean> i used to use an app for that
<BigRedS> mungbean: was it XFCE?
<BigRedS> :)
<mungbean> gmail-notifier
<mungbean> was great, but ubuntu killed it
<mungbean> s/unity/
<davmor2> BigRedS: you can view the icons in the launcher for Unity
<BigRedS> davmor2: is the launcher the thing on the left?
<ali1234> it's one of the things n the left...
<ali1234> mungbean: what happened to gmail-notifier?
<BigRedS> the thing on the left with the icons in it? Where Thunderbird has a little number telling me the unread emails?
<popey> "ubuntu killed it"
<davmor2> BigRedS: Yes the icons have numbers in for mail and im
<BigRedS> davmor2: pidgin doesn't have numbers in but empathy does
<ali1234> because i just fixed a bug that killed most third party indicators in saucy...
<mungbean> stopped working due to changes brought about by the systray
<mungbean> author didn't update it
<BigRedS> hence my trying empathy and noticing that it cannot XMPP to goofle
<ali1234> god knows how that ever got past QA
<BigRedS> *google
<BigRedS> I think xfce might be the easier solution...
<ali1234> "the desktop won't be neglected" they said...
<davmor2> ali1234: QA only test the applications that supported by Ubuntu main possibly ie the one on the iso
<popey> thats not entirely true
<BigRedS> ali1234: the desktop isn't cloudy enough
<popey> community qa people test all kinds of things
<ali1234> yeah, unfortunately this bug was in a library
<BigRedS> Hm. Online accounts appears to want access to all of my Google account. Is there some config somewhere to restrict it?
<ali1234> so testing all the apps would never find it
<ali1234> and especially automated testing
<penguin42> ali1234: Testsuite against the library?
<ali1234> also unfortunately, since it was in a library it broke a whole range of apps that use it
<ali1234> yeah it has a testsuite - which doesn't work properly
<ali1234> and doesn't actually test the thing that broke
<penguin42> ah well that never helps :-)
<mungbean> is it safe to send your bank account and sort code around clear text to friends and family?
<davmor2> mungbean: no
<BigRedS> i think it's possible to set up direct debits with those
<BigRedS> with just those
<penguin42> yeh it is - Jeremy Clarkson proved that the hard way
<ali1234> not *just* those. you also need some fake ID and a forged signature
<ali1234> but yeah, it's not safe
<penguin42> mungbean: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/7174760.stm
<mungbean> a cheque has those details on
<mungbean> and we give them out
<penguin42> mungbean: Yes it's a hopeless system
<ali1234> you're unlikely to have any problems
<ali1234> they only did clarkson to make a point
<mungbean> "The bank cannot find out who did this because of the Data Protection Act and they cannot stop it from happening again.??
<mungbean> although somebody may have stoeln my birth cert from my mums house last year
<AlanBell> it is a system that mostly works because it always has
<mungbean> i did some epic shredding over the weekend
<penguin42> mungbean: Yeh the system is just hopelessly broken, if you get some money coming into your account it's really difficult to track
<mungbean> electronically?
<penguin42> mungbean: Yeh, I had a problem where I couldn't tell where something came from and the bank was just hopeless
<ali1234> i wish i had that problem
<penguin42> ali1234: Unfortunately it wasn't significantly large
<penguin42> one of them was I'd started a monthly dd to another bank, and checked with the source to see it had gone in; it showed money going out and one coming straight back in, and the source bank said they couldn't check whether the money that came back in was actually from what went out (it was the same amount)
<mungbean> soudns wrong
<penguin42> they wouldn't believe it until I ended up running between the banks and found they'd typo'd the destination account number
<BigRedS> Haha, now I can't see how to get Thunderbird icon thingies in XFCE
<ali1234> BigRedS: what version, and what do you mean by "thingies"?
<BigRedS> Up in the top bar there used to be an icon that changed in appearence when I had unread messages
<ali1234> there's two different kinds of those
<ali1234> if you want the same one you had in unity, you need to be running 13.10 and you need to do this: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Specifications/Saucy/Gtk3Indicators
<ali1234> if you want the other type, idk...
<BigRedS> No, I specifically don't want Unity's one because I want one for IM and one for email
<BigRedS> that's why I'm in XFCE
<ali1234> well, xfce now uses indicators
<ali1234> you can have the messaging indicator and also the pidgin notifier at the same time
<BigRedS> ah right, so it's going to do whatever unity does?
<ali1234> sort of, but it can also do the old way too
<BigRedS> and the messaging indicator will include the pidgin stuff?
<ali1234> yes
<BigRedS> right
<ali1234> if you can find a thunderbird notifier, you can use that instead
<BigRedS> I might just find a 9.10 CD
<ali1234> perhaps thunderbird-gnome-support
<ali1234> i dunno why you want two icons
<BigRedS> because I don't feel teh need to immediately respond to unread mail but I do to unread jabbers
<BigRedS> I'm beginning to think that I'm quite peculiar in this sense, but for the fact that all the admin people here also complain about it
<ali1234> i barely use the icon tbh
<ali1234> i look for blue tabs in my chat window, or the "new emails" banner on the contacts list
<penguin42> BigRedS: Do you not have your jabbers set to pop up a window?
<BigRedS> penguin42: no, and I shudder to think how awfully that would work when I were on a different workspace
<ali1234> anyway, if pidgin is more important, then just add a notification area and get a icon just for pidgin
<BigRedS> ali1234: is that doable in unity?
<ali1234> maybe. i think you can whitelist pidgin
<ali1234> i dunno, i don't use it
<BigRedS> it's not more important, it's just that the distinction is more important to me than a several-hundred pixel wide blankness at the top of my monitor
<BigRedS> ah, cool. I'll have a fiddle...
<ali1234> all incoming messages open a new tab for me in pidgin
<ali1234> so i only ever have one window
<BigRedS> yeah, but that requires that you look at the pidgin window
<BigRedS> sometimes I'm working in a different window
<penguin42> ali1234: I have multiple pidgin windows - it's actually why I like pidgin, persuading stuff to go into the 'right' window is more tricky
<BigRedS> and I use multiple workspaces which unity seems to have decided is an afterthought
<ali1234> there's the notification icon for that though
<penguin42> BigRedS: It's less of an afterthought than gnome
<BigRedS> yeah, is that what I'm going to go away and see if I cna work out how to add? Or is that the envelope?
<ali1234> no
<BigRedS> penguin42: not really. Gnome can at least manage "always on visible workspace"
<ali1234> it's the speech buble with green circle thing
<BigRedS> (or could last time I tried it)
<ali1234> turns yellow when you have messages and higlights
<BigRedS> ah! That's what I'm after! So, yeah, I need to work out how to add that to unity
<ali1234> also turns yellow when you get an email, but i think you can turn that off
<BigRedS> yeah, if pidgin doesn't know about emails I guess it wont do that anyway
<ali1234> http://askubuntu.com/questions/30742/how-do-i-access-and-enable-more-icons-to-be-in-the-system-tray
<ali1234> btw, it's all different depending what version you are on...
<BigRedS> I don't have a 'panel' under unity
<mungbean> there's a battle of air con vs radiators in here
<BigRedS> oh! haha! Well, I shouldn't have really assumed otherwise
<ali1234> the key has been moved in recent versions
<ali1234> see the comments
<BigRedS> "Do note that the system tray is entirely removed in 13.04 and newer and that older applications that still have not been ported need to be updated"
<BigRedS> wonderful
<ali1234> http://askubuntu.com/questions/67312/how-do-i-enable-the-pidgin-system-tray-icon
<ali1234> ah yeah
<ali1234> so
<ali1234> xfce it is then
<BigRedS> yeah, I was just coming to that conclusion
<BigRedS> or fix empathy and get used to also losing 32px of screen width
<BigRedS> (or do that thing I found somewhere to get pidgin to have numbers there).
<BigRedS> either way it's pretty clear that it's not going to be 'fixed' as far as we're concerned
<ali1234> you could probably prevent thunderbird from using the message menu at all
<BigRedS> perhaps, but I'd like to see both
<BigRedS> and I'm really not sure why this appears so hard to do. It's what everyone did 15 years ago
<ali1234> because everything old is automatically worse than hitler
<BigRedS> well, yeah
<BigRedS> but sometimes I'd like to enable worse-than-hitler
<AlanBell> if only they would bring back an option for spacebar heating
<penguin42> AlanBell: Is that for warmth or punishment/notification
<AlanBell> http://xkcd.com/1172/
<BigRedS> haha
<penguin42> nice
<mungbean> there's an xkcd for everything, else dilbert
<penguin42> yeh it's useful to check dilbert so it can tell you what will happen in the next meeting
<BigRedS> right. So I need to hack together an application indicator. Is this a GTK thing or some other Ubuntu-only thing?
<ali1234> https://plus.google.com/117474986382867317779/posts/9B1izdYHNwR
<BigRedS> I wonder if Debian's XFCE will be more compliant
<ali1234> ubuntu's xfce is largerly identical to the debian one
<ali1234> making appindicators is pretty easy btw, after you patch the bug that makes it almost impossible in saucy :)
<BigRedS> gargh.
<BigRedS> I might just stop using computers
<shauno> until you discover someone's ported netbsd to the slide rule.  there is no escape!
<ali1234> xfce is gonna be really good in 14.04
<BigRedS> ali1234: is there a patch for this bug that makes it almost impossible? If I can package that *and* whatever hack I produce this might work
<ali1234> yes
<ali1234> there's even a package
<BigRedS> oh goody. what's the bug?
<BigRedS> even better!
<ali1234> bug 1203888
<lubotu3> bug 1203888 in libappindicator (Ubuntu) "appindicator ignores menu entries after having sent the menu to the indicator" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1203888
<ali1234> you have to build the package yourself though, because it won't build in a ppa, because the tests are broken
<ali1234> bug 1247162
<lubotu3> bug 1247162 in libdbusmenu (Ubuntu) "fails to build from source in PPA due to test failure" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1247162
<BigRedS> ta!
<ali1234> hopefully that patch will get SRU'd at some point
<ali1234> you'll also find a nice minimal example of how to make an appindicator on that first bug
<ali1234> as well as how to build the package
<BigRedS> oh cool. I need to look busy for a bit but I'll have a read through that in a bit. Thanks!
<ali1234> if you're doing this on xfce you will probably need to install the gtk3 indicators patches
<ali1234> maybe not though, appindicator should work on both
<BigRedS> nah, unity would be preferable since that's what everyone's already using
<BigRedS> and, more importantly, what I'm already used toi
<ali1234> i'm not...
<BigRedS> no, everyone here
<davmor2> BigRedS: by the way there is libnotify-pidgin not sure it that handles the counter on the icon if you prefer pidgin
<penguin42> has German really got 4 different words for Walnut?
<BigRedS> I only prefer pidgin because it works :)
<davmor2> BigRedS: so if you install that have a play and see if you get notifications on the icon on the left :) might help you, might not :)
<BigRedS> actually, yeah, everyone here can use empathy and have their launcher not autohide and that should solve the problem for them
<penguin42> BigRedS: I just use pidgin in KDE, problem solved
<BigRedS> davmor2: apparently I already have pidgin-libnotify installed
<TheOpenSourcerer> Bloody hell: http://www.hetzner.de/en/hosting/produkte_rootserver/ex60
<ali1234> everyone install pidgin-festival, turn up the volume, and /join #ubuntu
<TheOpenSourcerer>  i7-920 48GB Ram 2TB Storage = â¬59/m
<BigRedS> penguin42: except the KDE bit :)
<davmor2> BigRedS: Meh
<ali1234> pidgin-libnotify just does the bubbles i think
<penguin42> TheOpenSourcerer: Heck that's impressive with that much ram/storage
<TheOpenSourcerer> They just cut the price from â¬69 and waived the set up fee.
<TheOpenSourcerer> We have 5 servers with them now.
<penguin42> TheOpenSourcerer: the 920 is pretty old, so I can imagine the system is quite cheap now, but the 48GB RAM and storage is a chunk
<TheOpenSourcerer> Yeah sure.
<TheOpenSourcerer> A newer model: http://www.hetzner.de/en/hosting/produkte_rootserver/px70
<penguin42> TheOpenSourcerer: My i7 is ~3-4 years old, it's the 860 rather than the 920 but they were similar ages
<penguin42> TheOpenSourcerer: Do you think the i7-920 boxes have already been in use for a few years, and they've just thrown more ram/disk in them to resell them for another couple of years?
<TheOpenSourcerer> we got one of these fairly recently: http://www.hetzner.de/en/hosting/produkte_rootserver/ex40
<TheOpenSourcerer> penguin42: Maybe. Who cares?
<MartijnVdS> as long as they zeroed out the disks
<TheOpenSourcerer> lol
<penguin42> oh very nice
<popey> hmm, my vps is ~200GBP/yr
<popey> inc vat
<TheOpenSourcerer> I still fail to work out how they make money - they are *so* much cheaper then anyone else.
<penguin42> TheOpenSourcerer: Do you pay bandwidth as well?
<MartijnVdS> I pay Â£10 +VAT/month for mine
<TheOpenSourcerer> lol
<TheOpenSourcerer> penguin42: They have 20TB/month
<BigRedS> I always assumed they invested a fair whack in automation at the beginning and are slowly recouping that
<TheOpenSourcerer> inc
<penguin42> nice
<TheOpenSourcerer> for each server
<penguin42> TheOpenSourcerer: I just assume they make the money off the people paying to monitor them....
<AlanBell> it makes the amazon/cloud/juju stuff comedy pricing really
<TheOpenSourcerer> If you go over you get throttled but we never have come close and one server has ~ 15 VMs on it and several are CPanel server running > 40 websites and email etc.
<ali1234> i was seeding the ubuntu isos on release day
<ali1234> got through about 40GB in two days
<shauno> I don't think amazon's pricing was ever that great, unless you actualy need the 'elastic' bit
<ali1234> 20TB is just a silly amount of bandwidth
<penguin42> the minimal costs on amazon are very low
<AlanBell> no, but it gets sillier with juju as it needs vast numbers of VMs to do anything
<TheOpenSourcerer> That's fine. 40G a day is what? 1.2TB per month :-)
<ali1234> i wanted to put openstack on ours, but it turns out you need a minimum of three dedicated servers to run it
<MartijnVdS> you do?
<ali1234> yes. you have to have one server dedicated to making sure all the other servers are running
<MartijnVdS> something to run VMs on, something to server disks off of, and ..?
<AlanBell> it was 6 machines minimum when I looked, but I understand they cut it back somewhat
<BigRedS> can it be convinced to run off a load of VMs?
<penguin42> hetzner's small VM costs are about half the price of bytemark
<ali1234> no. it's a system for running VMs... doesn't take nicely to being nested like that
<ali1234> does anyone know how you make ipv6 work on hetzner?
<penguin42> ali1234: Some VM stuff can nest, I have had kvm nest on 12.04, not managed it on anything newer - the nested ones are less efficient but nowhere near as bad as just emulating
<BigRedS> yeah, vm-in-a-vm is never ideal, but it's been possible a few times
<penguin42> I know there are people looking to make it work again
<AlanBell> ali1234: as far as I know you just order an ipv6 /64 subnet through robot.your-server.de then start using it
<ali1234> well supposedly we have one
<ali1234> but nothing ever seems to use it
<shauno> I Think kvm does nested-VT now?  I know vmware does, but I don't believe it's a default config in either
<MartijnVdS> shauno: it does
<MartijnVdS> but you have to explicitly enable it on the kvm command line
<penguin42> shauno: It's done for a while, I've not had it work except on 12.04 - on saucy it hangs
<AlanBell> https://github.com/mseknibilel/OpenStack-Grizzly-Install-Guide/blob/master/OpenStack_Grizzly_Install_Guide.rst seems you can now do openstack on one computer
<ali1234> cool
<mungbean> so how does the nonlinear development aspect fo git work?
<penguin42> in what way?
<SuperMatt> in a way that messes with your head
<mungbean> does one person at the top manage all the commit request to make sure they don't break stuff?
<SuperMatt> I'm never high enough for git
<penguin42> mungbean: Different projects sort it out differently; one person/group of people doing pulls is the safest way
<mungbean> if you branch off v1.0 and add stuff then you can only merge back into that version,right?
<penguin42> mungbean: But you can rebase to a newer version
<mungbean> https://www.atlassian.com/git/workflows#!workflow-gitflow
<mungbean> looks scary
<penguin42> mungbean: you can use it kind of like cvs/svn but you just gain more by doing fancier stuff (not that I've done that yet)
<penguin42> mungbean: the trick is really that you can have your own branches/tags/checkins all locally without telling the server - and then you just push what you're interested in
<ga73ric> ignaz
<popey> Hello.
<ga73ric> hello
<penguin42> mungbean: so people tend to create branches/tags really often where on CVS they were expensive ops, and now you can have your own local branches/tags as well
<mungbean> do they tend to merge them upstream?
<penguin42> merge what?
<mungbean> their features and chnages
<mungbean> on their own branch
<mungbean> ^on^from
<penguin42> mungbean: Yeh on the big projects you need to keep the people who can commit a bit limited to stop chaos
<penguin42> mungbean: but that's just the same as cvs/svn
<mungbean> it confuses me
<mungbean> there's a list of 50 commits waiting
<penguin42> mungbean: Have you used any version control system?
<mungbean> not distributed
<penguin42> mungbean: OK, so what have you used?
<mungbean> user A has a commit at 5 in the queue which the maintainer is commitnig. but user B's commit is based on code that A has removed. so how does that work
<penguin42> mungbean: well you'll end up with a merge conflict that's going to need resolving somewhere
 * TheOpenSourcerer is using git. But just as a faster and less crappy svn.
<bigcalm> Which plugin do people here use to sync contacts between gmail and thunderbird?
<popey> google.com
<popey> â»
 * bigcalm kippers popey
<popey> \o/ fish!
<penguin42> popey: Are there any services to go behind the ubuntu phone to do services for it?
<penguin42> mungbean: It's no real difference from svn/cvs in the sense if you get a conflict you still get a conflict
<bigcalm> People that use Thunderbird & gmail/google apps: how do you sync contacts between client and server?
<popey> penguin42: in english?
<penguin42> popey: Where will the ubuntu phone get calendar/mail/mapping etc from?
<popey> there's an app to sync contacts from google
<popey> it could be extended to sync from other places no doubt
<davmor2> bigcalm: open Software-center, search for thunderbird, open it and there is a gmail option for email.  For calendar I just grab the ics feed for the calendar and add it to a new online calendar
<popey> http://popey.com/~alan/phablet/device-2013-10-24-132727.png
<bigcalm> davmor2: already syncing email and calendar. You haven't read my question correctly :)
<davmor2> bigcalm: ah sorry
<bigcalm> davmor2: unless I don't understand your answer :)
<penguin42> mungbean: What have you used before?
<diplo> bigcalm: Congratulations! and I always had issues with gmail contacts and gave up in the end, went back to web :/
<davmor2> bigcalm: I just use the contacts in thunderbird and don't sync :D
<bigcalm> diplo: thanks :)
<bigcalm> davmor2: consider that I use the same email accounts in multiple clients. Having the contacts available across them all would be helpful
<davmor2> bigcalm: one of the things I hate about thunderbird amongst the many :D
<mungbean> cvs and svn but not as part of a distributed project
<davmor2> bigcalm: you can have a look at plugins and see if there is one for google contact sync :)
<mungbean> i wondered how the maintainer handled all the commits and branches
<penguin42> mungbean: OK, but have you worked with cvs/svn with multiple people ?
<mungbean> yes but usually from a sysadmin POV (e.g. firewall scripts etc)
<penguin42> mungbean: OK, so what happens if one of your other admins makes a change?
<mungbean> writing code has been a matter of a clone and compile, or my own stuff, nobody else involved
<mungbean> they would only checkout at last minute
<mungbean> and make changes
<bigcalm> Once I sort out google contact sync, I then need to figure out ms exchange contact sync
<mungbean> there wouldn't be a queue of commits
<penguin42> mungbean: OK, so it happens in CVS as well, if someone else had done a change when you did a cvs commit you'd get a conflict, you'd have to do a cvs update and sort stuff out
<mungbean> as part of the kernel it must be a nightmare
<penguin42> mungbean: Where someone is merging stuff they expect you to have given them something off a pretty recent version so the likelihood of conflicts is small, but they'll accept they'll have to do some minor conflict wrangling but probably won't do anything major
<penguin42> mungbean: The kernel stuff is also multilevel - i.e. most of the stuff that goes into Linus comes from subsection maintainers who merge other peoples stuff together
<penguin42> mungbean: So the stuff Linus gets from each one will at least hopefully be mostly contained in one area of the code base
<penguin42> mungbean: There's also a thing called linux-next which is where a lot of the newer stuff goes and gets merged together and tested before getting thrown upto Linus
<mungbean> no wonder gerg KH always ranting about people on g+
<penguin42> mungbean: I think greg is one of the more careful in what he says :-)
<penguin42> mungbean: But in a small project you might let any of a trusted few push to the head, and whenever they do they just have to sort out their own conflicts
<mungbean> hmm i was just on a website that said if i knew my security question i could reset my password there and then (not send to my email address)
<mungbean> that means my password is only as strong as my security word
<mungbean> if it sent a link to your address it would at least require said person to have your inbox password too
<popey> http://www.theverge.com/2013/11/4/5064278/blackberry-ceo-steps-down-as-company-secures-1-billion-funding-from
<popey> oof
<Azelphur> In my usual bitcoin dealings, I stumbled upon an absolutely hilarious story, one of my friends has started an illegal smuggling venture to get contraband into denmark...the contraband is...Marmite, It's illegal in denmark.
<Azelphur> I sit here picturing dodgy guys in dark alleys "you got the stuff?"
<BigRedS> oh yeah, that's a relatively recent change isn't it? I remember hearing about that
<Azelphur> BigRedS: yea, haha
<popey> hah
<Azelphur> some people just gotta have their marmite clearly :)
<BigRedS> something weird like it claiming to be healthy and therefore needing approval
<popey> \o/ marmite hilight
<mungbean> smuggle it as earwax
<mungbean> would pass the sniff and taste test
<Azelphur> rofl
<mungbean> disclaimer: i quite like marmite
<Azelphur> doesn't human waste set off all sorts of customs checks?
<mungbean> i wouldn't know
<popey> *waste*!?! How dare you!
<Azelphur> xD
<popey> My earwax is of the highest quality!
<Azelphur> hahaha
<Myrtti> ihihihiiiiii wheee
<Azelphur> for his next venture, I suggested smuggling Kinder Surprise eggs into USA :)
<mungbean> in your butt
<mungbean> what have we here? smuggling drugs up your butt in kinder eggs? no, just childrens toys :-|
<Azelphur> xD
<mungbean> how many children have a mouth big enough to eat a chocolate kinder egg in one go, yellow egg and all?
<mungbean> does that mean easter eggs with things inside aren't allowed too?
<BigRedS> isn't haggis a commonly-smuggled foodstuff into the us?
<BigRedS> 'cause lungs aren't deemed fit for human consumption. It's either into the US or into Canada, from the other
<mungbean> maybe there's a niche in the market "i can't believe it's not haggis"
<Azelphur> mungbean: yea, think so
<Azelphur> this is what BTC will become. Who needs drugs when you can smuggle marmite and haggis?
<Azelphur> XD
<popey> mmmmm haggis
<mungbean> never eaten haggis
<mungbean> probabyl enver will
<TheOpenSourcerer> Beans on toast with chillies :-D
<popey> My wife refuses to eat black pudding. Silly rabbit.
<davmor2> popey: A woman with obvious good taste, what the hell is she doing with you ;)
<davmor2> popey: Black/Blood pudding is like marmite you either love it or hate it, I'm in the hate camp on both, and you are in the love camp for both I believe.  So I wonder if there is a correlation to draw there :D
<Myrtti> I haven't liked any of the _British_ black pudding I've tried
<popey> davmor2: how about haggis?
<davmor2> popey: haggis has never really taken my fancy but I have a least tried Black puddin and marmite so I know I don't like them
<popey> heh
<popey> I will basically eat anything
<popey> black pudding & haggis are a treat for me
<mungbean> elvis probably said the same
<mungbean> i have certain dietary restrictions :(
<penguin42> mungbean: Same here, I stick to chocolate
<mungbean> i think i have problems digesting fatty food
<mungbean> currently writing doc for how to install vmware on a ibm server. if it were dell, it would be upload iso, boot and away you go
<mungbean> its taken me most of the day to write the doc :S
<diplo> I'm the only one who writes documentation in my office
<diplo> And in the last 2 months we have either had people out on long term sick or left
<diplo> And now it's really biting them in the a**e
<mungbean> people who don't document are selfish
<mungbean> and stupid if they ever wanna reproduce this again
<mungbean> basically did one server, discovered as i went along, hence will document now, test on server 2 and tweak docs. server 3 will be slick, then we re-do server 1
<diplo> Thing is for our company, they can't replace the staff.. nobody else writes in this language apart us as we now own it :/
<mungbean> english?
<diplo> Whereas I don't want to be stuck doing the same jobs over and over so document and point anyone who asks me at the docs so they can do it and learn
<diplo> Simple - lots of goto's etc
<daftykins> i liked hearing about a friends office, where they had a managed system before. then they got in-house IT, who had to search the network to even find out what they had to start
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> still discovering systems months laster
<daftykins> *later
<MartijnVdS> that's always fun :)
<diddledan> daftykins: that sounds like a fun game of hide-n-seek
<diddledan> or lucky dip
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: nmap :P
<diddledan> MartijnVdS: at work we've lost a managed switch - it doesn't respond to any sort of network requests on it's supposed ip address - I've tried nmapping the subnet and still can't find it
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: its IP/management interface is probably on a vlan then, maybe only available on a special port, or the trunk port
<MartijnVdS> so management traffic isn't on the same network as the "user" data
<daftykins> ^ :D
<daftykins> manual perhaps? :)
<daftykins> i've got a 24-port managed Netgear here, its' web-admin seems utterly shocking
<daftykins> so unresponsive
<diddledan> yeah ours is a  netgear tooo
<penguin42> diddledan: When you say you 'lost' the switch, do you mean erm physically as well ?
<SuperMatt> hey guys
<MartijnVdS> \o SuperMatt
<SuperMatt> I'm somewhat bored
<SuperMatt> so I thought I'd camp out in here
<diddledan> penguin42: it's in a remote colocation centre so we don't have direct access without booking and then driving several tens of miles
<penguin42> ah yes
<daftykins> heh
<davmor2> SuperMatt: That's daft tents and the internet are not a good combination.  The tubes move and the cats don't like it.
<SuperMatt> that is correct
<SuperMatt> though if I got out my railgun, camping would be a lot of fun
<diddledan> I tried camping once but my mince had gone off
<SuperMatt> I...
<SuperMatt> what?
<mungbean> :-|
<SuperMatt> I quite enjoy camping, truth be told
<SuperMatt> maybe the next launch party should be in a field somewhere
<davmor2> SuperMatt: http://www.camp-let.com/trailertents/premium/  we have one of these we really like camping in that :)
<SuperMatt> ooh, swish
<SuperMatt> I have a four man tent, but I've only ever had 2 people in it
<SuperMatt> because why be uncomfortable?
<SuperMatt> I like the outdoors, but I also like being snuggly
<davmor2> SuperMatt: no it's danish not swish ;)
<SuperMatt> *groan*
<davmor2> SuperMatt: that is very snuggly with it's huge bed, bench settee, kitchen, toilet in the side annex, etc etc etc :)
<mungbean> large online shop called me to verify why my billing address was different from my shipping address. they asked for the persons name and checked a database
<mungbean> i guess because we share the same surname it was ok
<mungbean> not sure what they do otherwise?
<SuperMatt> davmor2: that's going a little too far, m'thinks ;)
<diddledan> mungbean: I don't get it
<diddledan> mungbean: you ordered something or someone is pretending to be you or?
<davmor2> SuperMatt: it's just what's built into the trailer to be honest.  It's amazingly well thought out :)   Only takes about 10-15 minutes to get out of the rain when setting up too :)
<SuperMatt> cool
<SuperMatt> last time I went camping, we just avoided hail by seconds
<SuperMatt> got the tent up and the heavens did their stuff
<davmor2> SuperMatt: the only thing we care about is it being dry on the day we take it down, saves having to open it back up then :)
<diddledan> davmor2: you could take it down the night before if it's going to rain on the day you leave :-p
<mungbean> diddledan: i oredered something to be sent to my mums address
<diddledan> mungbean: aah
<mungbean> first time ordered
<mungbean> they blocked the order and emailed me
<mungbean> so i called and they checked my name against my address and my DOB
<mungbean> and they checked the person lived at the other address
<mungbean> then they asked the relation to me
<mungbean> i.e. why are you sending to $OTHERADDRESS
<diddledan> mungbean: did you tick the "this is a present" box? that might give them a clue why you're sending elsewhere :-p
<davmor2> diddledan: no you just have to get it back up and dry it out within about 3 weeks before it start to have mildew attack it.  We've been really lucky though only had to do that once
<diddledan> or was there no such box?
<mungbean> no box, and only amazon don't care where it goes
<diddledan> amazon ftw
<davmor2> diddledan: we have left a site a day early but that was because there were thunderstorms forecast for that evening/night/following morning and that wouldn't of been fun to take it down in :)
<diddledan> indeed
<daftykins> i'm being a devil and upgrading a desktop in this property from lucid to 12.04.3 D:
<daftykins> i'm curious how it'll go
<mungbean> amazon was Â£6 more expensive and i don't get cashback via quidco :P
<daftykins> Banshee will already have to be ditched as the music player
<mungbean> banshee lol
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> yeah it's a PC in a 'breakfast room' that occasionally plays music
<daftykins> i've mostly seen it switched off however
<BigRedS> haha, thunderbird's decided to download all mail in every folder on the mailserver at work
<BigRedS> which is fine, I didn't want to send any mail for the next week anyway
<mungbean> lo @ popey raccoon vid. dunno why its funny but it is
<SuperMatt> have fun with your super high load for the next half hour o/
<mungbean> my baby daughter doesn't let you scrape her chin with the spoon when feeding because when spoon goes near, mouth goes open = more mess
<BigRedS> yeah, I just tried right-clicking to get to the subscribe menu and that took forty seconds
<SuperMatt> haha
<SuperMatt> poor thing
<popey> â»
<mungbean> http://www.theverge.com/2013/11/4/5063760/we-try-the-steam-machine-valves-video-game-console-of-the-future
<SuperMatt> I'm looking forward to getting my hands on one of those controllers
<mungbean> looks like its made for men
<SuperMatt> if valve had any sense, they're start releasing the controller soon, before the xbox one controller gets support on windows 8
<SuperMatt> especially as I like using my xbox controller on games. If it is truely revolutionary, it'd be nice to have the controller out soon
<SuperMatt> after all, it's not like it's tied to the release of a steambox itself
<mungbean> ulimit -c 0 means no core files, right?
<mgdm> I believe so
<mungbean> ah, realised the issie
<mungbean> was OK until i performed a qlogin
<SuperMatt> setting the flash plugin to "always ask" in firefox was the best thing I ever did
<ali1234> BigRedS: libdbusmenu fix was merged :)
<BigRedS> ali1234: whoop! :)
<mungbean> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2013/11/80-rikomagic-arm-based-ubuntu-mini-pc-starts-shipping
<mungbean> for those who don't read omg
<mungbean> i don't have a HDMI telly :'(
<BigRedS> ARM with no hardware video acceleration?
<BigRedS> Given my experience with a Pi I'm not sure I'd find a use for that
<davmor2> mungbean: hdmi to dvi lead
<mungbean> my telly is OLD
<penguin42> mungbean: Same here - it's got a CRT
<mungbean> yep
<mungbean> CRT yeah you know me
<penguin42> mungbean: I'm getting tempted though, but I need to buy from somewhere that will take the old one away
<mungbean> put it outside with a note "DO NOT STEAL"
<mungbean> i give it 30 mins
<penguin42> mungbean: Well, I mean someone who can get it down the stairs would be a good start
<mungbean> gravity
<mungbean> \o/
<penguin42> well true, it'll be easier than gettting it up the stairs
<mungbean> \o/-------[]
<penguin42> mungbean: It's a 32" - not fun
<mungbean> i may have the same telly
<penguin42> Tosh
<mungbean> ah
<mungbean> i have the panasonic quintrix
<mungbean> best telly ever
<ali1234> how can throwing a TV out a window ever be "not fun"?
<mungbean> got it for a bottle of wine
<mungbean> carried it out of a 2nd floor flat and nearly died
<penguin42> ali1234: My windows don't open enough to dispatch the TV, and it wouldn't be good for the garden
<mungbean> yabbadabbadooo
<mungbean> home tiem
<BigRedS> Good point
 * xnox "I'm friends with the monster that's under my bed" â¬ âª â¯ â©
<diddledan> I _am_ the monster that's under my bed
<diddledan> <-- honeymonster
<SuperMatt> I haven't had sugarpuffs in ages
<SuperMatt> are they even still legal?
<SuperMatt> what with the amount of sufar
<SuperMatt> *sugar
<Azelphur> anyone know how to create an encrypted portable USB install of Ubuntu?
<penguin42> Azelphur: The tricky bit if doing it to a usb thumb is most of them really suck on writes, but other than that luks encrypt shouldn't be too bad
<Azelphur> is there a tool for it? or is it a royal PITA
<penguin42> luks shouldn't be that hard - but is there a tool for doing a non-encrypted thumb?
<Azelphur> there is
<xnox> Azelphur: take usb-thumb drive, plug it in, open dash type "Disks" select format, choose encrypted, enter password & format, done.
 * penguin42 would just format the part as luks and hope for the best
<xnox> Azelphur: make sure you click unmount before unplugging.
<penguin42> xnox: I believe he wants to put the rest of Ubuntu in there as well
<xnox> Azelphur: when you plug it back into Ubuntu, a pop-up will appear to unlock it.
<Azelphur> penguin42: will that actually remain bootable, though?
<xnox> penguin42: if you want to have encrypted LUKS installation, it's also a single check-box in the installer.
<penguin42> Azelphur: Normally you run with a /boot that's done normally then a luks'd root
<xnox> penguin42: yes, that's setup automatically by the Ubuntu Desktop installer, if you tick to encrypt your new full disk installation (Erase and Install)
<xnox> (dual boot not supported, or more complex schemes)
<Azelphur> xnox: uhh, is this gnome-disk-utility you're talking about?
<Azelphur> I'm on xubuntu, so I don't have Unity :)
<penguin42> xnox: Yep done it - the interesting bit is combining it with the thumbdrive setups - which often have the data as a separate part
<Azelphur> I don't have any options to encrypt in the format menu
<penguin42> Azelphur: SO you can just do a normal install to the thumb drive and remember to select encrypted drive (not home directory encrypt!) and it should work
<xnox> Azelphur: yes, it's "gnome-disks" or some such. Should work on any systems. Install "cryptsetup" package ? it might be optional.
<Azelphur> xnox: nope, still no format options
<Azelphur> penguin42: problem with that is it creates grub for all the hdds in the system
<xnox> Azelphur: what release are you on?
<penguin42> Azelphur: If you do an install you don't need to do this stuff
<Azelphur> xnox: 13.10
<Azelphur> I'll have another look at doing a normal install
<Azelphur> I have two sticks, so one of them has the installer, one is the install medium
<penguin42> Azelphur: Yeh just do a normal install and tick the full disk encryption
<xnox> Azelphur: disks -> click on usb stick -> click on a partition -> SHIFT+CTRL+F (or small cogs drop down below partition)
<xnox> Type: Encrypted
<xnox> or just "+" if it's a new partition.
<Azelphur> xnox: aha, yes I see that :)
<Azelphur> xnox: seems like unetbootin won't create in that though, so I'll go back to trying to do a normal install
<Azelphur> penguin42: the problem with the installer is that it seems very intent on installing to /dev/sda
<Azelphur> and I don't particularly wanna wipe my laptop xD
<penguin42> huh shouldn't - should let you install where you want
<Azelphur> well, at partitioning the options I get are "Erase Ubuntu 13.10 and reinstall", Install Xubuntu 13.10 alongside 13.10, or something else
 * penguin42 thought it used to let you choose another disk at that point
<Azelphur> penguin42: nah, it's asking me for a security key and the next button is "Install now"
<Azelphur> I'm gonna try this in a virtual machine just to see if install now really means install now :)
<Azelphur> seems install now doesn't mean install now \o/
<Azelphur> Some of the partitions you created are too small. Please make the following partitions at least this large: / 2.9GB
<Azelphur> awwww.
<Azelphur> guess I'll have to use my 16GB one
<penguin42> Azelphur: Now the thing is I know there are some USB thumb setups that do it a bit differently; they have a base root partition and then a writeable overlay
<Azelphur> yea
<Azelphur> the main reason I want this is so that I can have something very secure to handle my bitcoins on
<Azelphur> the amount I have stored on my everyday desktop is scary.
<penguin42> Azelphur: Isn't it easier to turn them into cash and put them in a bank?
<Azelphur> penguin42: Total times I've been robbed by banks: 4
<Azelphur> a handy guide to why I don't put money in banks
<penguin42> interesting
<Azelphur> also the cyprus situation
<penguin42> the what?
<Azelphur> why anybody trusts banks I have no clue, but none the less, I won't
<penguin42> Azelphur: I've not had problems with them actually losing money - I mean generally I find them completely incompetent, but not actually lost anything to them
<Azelphur> penguin42: yea, I've lost 4 figures
<Azelphur> at least.
<penguin42> ouch
<Azelphur> got an ombudsman case starting against Santander
<Azelphur> but yea.
<penguin42> ah, Santander
<Azelphur> penguin42: but yea, with the combination of extremely low interest payouts, incompetence, maliciousness, and the possibility of seizure ala Cyprus, banks are about the least sane place to have your money atm, imo.
 * penguin42 gulps
<penguin42> Azelphur: OK, buy property then?
<Azelphur> I wouldn't wanna advise on where you should put your money, as anything I say could well be totally wrong
<Azelphur> but at least I can be reasonably sure that storing it in the bank has at best a mediocre interest payout, and at worse, you loosing some/all of it.
<penguin42> well, in the UK as long as you keep the amount/bank below the cap you're very unlikely to lose
<Azelphur> penguin42: you assume government solvency.
<Azelphur> that's a bad assumption imo.
<Azelphur> USA very nearly defaulted, everybodies credit rating is falling, which means interests on our exponential debt is growing, do the math :)
<Azelphur> penguin42: hmm, I got to the "Who are you?" section, filled all the info in and clicked continue, now the installer is just hanging
<Azelphur> :(
<penguin42> Azelphur: are you sure it actually crashed or it is just writing to your uber slow usb drive?
<Azelphur> penguin42: it's been stuck for about 20 minutes, the OS is still responsive, just the installer isn't doing anything
<penguin42> Azelphur: Is it writing anything to the USB?
<Azelphur> how do I tell?
<penguin42> iostat ?
<Azelphur> penguin42: can't install it because debconf is locked
<penguin42> Azelphur: vmstat ?
<Azelphur> http://paste.ubuntu.com/6360108/
<penguin42> Azelphur: try vmstat 1 5    is the bo column always sitting at around a few hundred?
<Azelphur> yea, bo is pretty much always at 433
<Azelphur> or 432
<penguin42> ok, so it's writing all the time and I'm guessing just stuck writing lots of stuff
<penguin42> Azelphur: I suggest it's telling you to take it easy for a while
<Azelphur> penguin42: it's weird because its not even showing the installer progress bar
<Azelphur> it's just hanging
<penguin42> Azelphur: I'd give it a while before giving up on it
<ali1234> why do you even want an encrypted install on usb? it's crazy
<ali1234> usb is lowwwww
<Azelphur> ali1234: I want some place to store my BTC safely
<ali1234> encrypted usb isn't the answer
<penguin42> well, it's USB thumbs are slow
<ali1234> nah, any USB2 is slow
<penguin42> well, you can still get 40MB/s on a good day - that's slow but usable as opposed to hopeless
<ali1234> Azelphur: did you know you can generate btc addresses using openssl... openssl is installed by default on ubuntu
<Azelphur> ali1234: yea thing is I'm making the assumption of malicious software on my desktop
<ali1234> how will an encrypted volume help?
<Azelphur> ali1234: encrypted USB stick only used for bitcoin
<Azelphur> boot from USB :)
<ali1234> yea how will that help
<Azelphur> ali1234: well it'll render any malicious software on my PC moot, since the drives are unmounted?
<penguin42> Azelphur: A bootable standard Ubuntu live CD and a USB stick with just the crypted bitcoin data on would work
<Azelphur> penguin42: yea, I guess I could use the standard wallet encryption in the client, and not secure the OS
<Azelphur> although I'd prefer the drive encrypted, that protects against tampering
<ali1234> use paper wallets
<Azelphur> ali1234: I can't send from a paper wallet...
 * Azelphur sighs
<ali1234> yes you can
<penguin42> Azelphur: I mean encrypted USB but with just your bitcoin data, but access it booting off a live-cd
<ali1234> all you have to do is type in the key
<Azelphur> penguin42: I see, same answer though
<Azelphur> ali1234: on my machine, which we are assuming is compromised...
<Azelphur> is it really that alien to want an encrypted portable install?
<penguin42> Azelphur: It's protected against tampering still - especially if you use a stamped live-cd
<ali1234> well don't get it compromised then. easy
<Azelphur> -.-
<Azelphur> I just want to create an encrypted portable install, not have the Spanish inquisition ;)
<Azelphur> penguin42: I'm seeing lots of stack traces in dmesg, I guess this install is failing
<penguin42> Azelphur: Depends on the stack trace - are they just task not responding after 120 seconds?
<Azelphur> penguin42: spot on, that's the one :)
<ali1234> buy an old netbook off ebay
<ali1234> enrypt the internal drive
<penguin42> Azelphur: Yeh that's SLOW things are going SLOW
<Azelphur> ali1234: that's actually a good idea, one of the things I was worried about with a stick is that they aren't very robust, and are easier to loose.
<penguin42> Azelphur: When you say portable - what do you want to boot it on?
<Azelphur> penguin42: just the one laptop :)
<penguin42> ok
<czajkowski> popey: do you have chrome or chromium installed?
<popey> yes
<davmor2> popey: you fell into that trap, now czajkowski will ask you to try something :D
<czajkowski> popey: davmor2 just curious I've chromium installed but trying to install chrome as I need to test an app
<czajkowski> but it refuses to install it does download but then nothing really moves on the install bar
<czajkowski> I download it from the google site/chrome
<davmor2> czajkowski: did you get the right version?
<davmor2> czajkowski: did it install and it just not show up on the launcher bar, ie is it in the dash?
<davmor2> czajkowski: what happens if you do sudo dpkg -i chrome.deb or whatever it is called
<czajkowski> google-chrome-stable_current_amd64.deb
<czajkowski> got it off their own site which was the confusing thing
<davmor2> czajkowski: and it is on a 64bit machine right?
<czajkowski> yup
<davmor2> and have you open dash and seen if it is installed?
<czajkowski> it's downloaded
<czajkowski> but doesnt seem to want to install
<davmor2> czajkowski: right so do sudo dpkg -i google-chrome-stable_current_amd64.deb and see why
<Azelphur> I have a feeling Ubuntu generally doesn't like installing to a USB stick.
<popey> i have installed to usb before
<Azelphur> I gave up on my laptop after an hour, tried doing it in a virtual machine with USB passthrough, this time I made it further through the install, but it looks like its stuck again
<Azelphur> yea, I've done it before too
<SuperMatt> it is a travesty how poorly modern operating systems handle blu ray
<davmor2> Azelphur: what are you using to copy it to usb?
<Azelphur> the ubuntu installer
<davmor2> Azelphur: hum that works fine for me
<Azelphur> bizarre :(
<davmor2> Azelphur: what speed is the drive, usb1 tends to fail 2 is alright never tried 3
<Azelphur> usb 2 I believe, a 16GB sandisk cruzer
<davmor2> Azelphur: I'd try formatting the drive and reinstalling it, personally.
<Azelphur> davmor2: did that
<SuperMatt> man, it shouldn't be that the only way I can watch a BD is to plug in my ps3
<davmor2> SuperMatt: I can tell you how but I'm not going to muhahaha
<penguin42> Azelphur: Oh, a sandisk - oh, I've heard people are having very poor write bandwidths on modern sandisk thumbdrives
<Azelphur> oh :(
<penguin42> Azelphur: You could install to a virtual disk and then dd the raw disk out to the USB stick?
<penguin42> but yeh installs onto USB are a pain
<Azelphur> yea could do
<Azelphur> I've actually had the install bar go all the way to the end, and then go around again. xD
<SuperMatt> davmor2: does it involve libaacs.so.0 and KEYDB.conf?
<Azelphur> but it seems to be progressing again now after being frozen for ~15 minutes
<davmor2> SuperMatt: no just build makemkv  and preview make that full screen in 60 days install the newer version :)
<SuperMatt> riiight
<SuperMatt> I'll just go with my ps3 method
<davmor2> SuperMatt: that's the easy way
<SuperMatt> yup
<SuperMatt> I like easy
<davmor2> SuperMatt: I was kinda expecting Fluendo to make a Bluray player as the have legit keys for their dvd player so why not add blue ray but I don't think they are going to :(
<SuperMatt> I just think it's a bit criminal that I have the disk, I have the reader, but I have to pay a third party to actually be able to decode the stuff
<diddledan> I think rather than fluendo not making it the case is more like the aacs people won't license the code to fluendo
<Azelphur> penguin42: do you have any recommendations for a more modern high speed drive?
<davmor2> diddledan: why their dvd player is proprietary not free, and is one of the only legit players for dvd for linux so they could do the same with bluray I would imagine
<diddledan> linux scares the media companies, though
<diddledan> they're afraid of reverse engineering on linux more than they are on windows or stbs
<diddledan> STBs**
<diddledan> (that's just anecdotal, I have no evidence to back up the claim :-p)
<popey> Azelphur: you're doing this via a VM?
<davmor2> diddledan: Fluendo technically isn't Linux they are just a Media Company that mostly create gstreamer stuff.
<Azelphur> popey: yea
<davmor2> Azelphur: oh that could be why.    Why would you do that on a vm when you can just use the iso
<diddledan> what I really hate about bluray is that you can pay to get discs blocked from your player - when you buy a new disc it can install a blacklist onto your player that blocks previously bought discs. so you're paying for the privilege of them removing your viewing rights that you paid for
<Azelphur> davmor2: because I'd get dodgy grub entries to drives that don't exist
<Azelphur> plus a vm should be no slower, I'm just usb passthroughing
<penguin42> Azelphur: No sorry
<davmor2> Azelphur: yeah only it depends how good the passthrough is it might be fine for data
<GentileBen> http://toys.usvsth3m.com/richard-dawkins-honey-defender/
<shauno> as silly as the whole thing sounds, I felt the same way when they took my cheese off me.  have you ever tried to argue with the govt over whether cheese is a liquid or not?
<penguin42> shauno: It didn't have a wick coming out of it did it?
<penguin42> shauno: I thought cheese was primarily about milk export, and I'd kind of assumed honey was the same
<diddledan> hurray - just finished whittling down 30ish bug and other issues down to just 3
<diddledan> not ubuntu-related but still, share my joy
<MartijnVdS> \o/
<penguin42> am I the only one who really really dislikes 'unsigned' as a type as opposed to 'unsigned int' ?
<diddledan> I think that's enough work for today
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: it's not as expressive
<diddledan> it's an unsigned bit, obviously
<diddledan> because we all know bits can be signed
<mgdm> 'unsigned char' used to make me go o_O
<MartijnVdS> signed char is worse
<diddledan> lol
<mgdm> now I just think "lol, C" and get on with life
<mgdm> MartijnVdS: well, yes, it was the implication that char was signed by default
<MartijnVdS> mgdm: that's not defined, I think, in older versions of C (maybe even today)
<Azelphur> can you not dual boot and encrypt one of the partitions?
<penguin42> does someone have access to a non-linux posix system where they can do a   man select  ?
<mgdm> penguin42: OSX do?
<penguin42> yes
<mgdm> sure
<penguin42> mgdm: I'd like to know the signedness of the 1st parameter
<mgdm> int select(int nfds, fd_set *restrict readfds, fd_set *restrict writefds, fd_set *restrict errorfds, struct timeval *restrict timeout);
<penguin42> ok, thanks
 * penguin42 wonders wth it's an int rather than an unsigned int - I don't get why a negative number would make any sense
<mgdm> there's a few cases where I wonder that too :)
<Azelphur> I like how the encryption on Ubuntu doesn't give me a prompt or anything on my laptop
<Azelphur> It's super secret, "Wait for the screen to go black...enter the password and press enter"
<mgdm> heh
<penguin42> Azelphur: That's a bug - if you kill plymouth is does, and I have seen it work on 12.04 - but not everyone does
<Azelphur> hehe
#ubuntu-uk 2013-11-05
<xnox> penguin42: re:select - this also depends on libc one is using.
<penguin42> xnox: in what way?
<xnox> penguin42: nevermind, that one got standarized.
<xnox> Azelphur: does pressing Esc reveal the password promt and/or booting with "splash" removed from the linux cmdline?
<xnox> Azelphur: do you get normal "ubuntu logo" and progress dots? (or is that a server)
<penguin42> xnox: Still, it seems nuts to use an int for a number of fds
<xnox> If nfds is greater than the number of open files, select() is not guaran-
<xnox>      teed to examine the unused file descriptors.  For historical reasons,
<xnox>      select() will always examine the first 256 descriptors.
<xnox> =/
<daftykins> i was not impressed at all with the upgrade i tried
<daftykins> it came up with questions regarding weird stuff that a user should never be presented with
<penguin42> daftykins: What?
<daftykins> i ran a desktop 10.04.4 -> 12.04.3 upgrade :D
<daftykins> one was hilariously displayed purely as square boxes, so presumably character set fail
<penguin42> that should be a perfectly reasonable thing to do - LTS-LTS
<daftykins> window title, message content and the two buttons :D
<daftykins> yeah, but no it was quite unprofessional indeed
<daftykins> i think the first message was regarding libc6
<daftykins> or libc in general rather
<daftykins> it only needed 'forward' clicked in a window that came up though
<daftykins> so no real intelligence needed, though the message content was obscure
<daftykins> then the character set fail one
<daftykins> which i came back to after a while expecting it'd chug through installing packages unattended
<daftykins> then said it'd take 1hr to sort out
<daftykins> so i shall perhaps take another look at the result tomorrow
<daftykins> and start looking for a media player replacement for Banshee since it said that'd be unsupported :)
<daftykins> so my feelings stand on upgrades being funky
<daftykins> though granted i base this purely on this one example
<penguin42> nod, but still should work
<daftykins> yeah i'm sure there'll be something left afterwards
<daftykins> i think an upgrade is more likely to have trouble when a system has been used for longer and for more varied tasks, more software installed etc.
<daftykins> all the obvious things
<daftykins> but this one hasn't really done much other than be sat in a kitchen with occasional web browsing and music playing
<penguin42> daftykins: Any PPAs?
<daftykins> nah
<daftykins> all stock
<MooDoo> morning all
<MartijnVdS> \o
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS: phew was getting lonely then :)
<MartijnVdS> aww
<MooDoo> hehe that's the down side of getting into work at 6:30 ;)
<MartijnVdS> but.. I got into work at 8:30 ;)
<MooDoo> :p
<MooDoo> I like this Idea, when will someone setup a "i need help with ubuntu feed" - http://googleblog.blogspot.co.uk/2013/11/introducing-helpouts-help-when-you-need.html
<MartijnVdS> wasn't there someone in here who ran a beta helpout?
<MooDoo> not sure, must have missed that
<MartijnVdS> popey probably remembers
<MartijnVdS> popey always remembers
<popey> that would be SuperMatt
<MooDoo> SuperMatt: that you be you then :)
<popey> http://helpouts.supermatt.net/
<MooDoo> pah! - http://helpouts.supermatt.net/getting-started/ 404 ;)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Morning all - seen the news? We are saved :-D http://www.theguardian.com/science/2013/nov/04/planets-galaxy-life-kepler
<TheOpenSourcerer> So we can carry on messing up this one! There are plenty more out there.
<diplo> Morning all
<MooDoo> morning diplo
<BigRedS> MooDoo: to be fair, there is an abject shortage of places to go with Ubuntu problems
<MooDoo> BigRedS: yeah, might be handing to setup a team for this kind of thing?
<BigRedS> no, I was being sarcastic
<MooDoo> :p
<MooDoo> I still think it's a good idea :)
<popey> there's a shortage of places to go for 1:1 help
<Myrtti> are those electic dehumidifiers worth looking at? we're currently barely surviving on dehumidifier blocks and I was wondering if something that doesn't require refilling with chemicals to work would be worth it
<MartijnVdS> they do work quite well
<MooDoo> we've actually got a humidifier in the kids room at the moment lol
<SuperMatt> MooDoo: shouldn't be any 404s. weirdness is happening!
<MartijnVdS> itshappening.jpg
<MooDoo> SuperMatt: thought you should know :D
<SuperMatt> thanks
<SuperMatt> well my htacces file is correct
<MooDoo> SuperMatt: strange :S
<SuperMatt> MooDoo: it works now
<SuperMatt> there were some slight gotchas moving from apache 2.2 to 2.4
<MooDoo> woohoo, what was it?
<SuperMatt> I needed to AllowOverride All
<SuperMatt> so
<MooDoo> oh yeah know all about them, didn't need the + in the htaccess ;)
<SuperMatt> about helpouts
<SuperMatt> how can I help?
<MooDoo> lol I was curious and said we need an ubuntu one, then someone remembered you did one :D
<SuperMatt> ah righty
<SuperMatt> well I'm doing beginners
<MooDoo> It's a great idea :D
<SuperMatt> but today I got an email saying "how do I set up a web proxy and email server"
<SuperMatt> I'm about to reply and say "that's beyond scope of my helpout"
<BigRedS> MooDoo: the + adds the override to the extant list; without the + you're setting the canonical list.
<MartijnVdS> "apt-get install squid postfix"
<MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: ;)
<SuperMatt> sure, but configuring it is a whole different matter
<MartijnVdS> won't it ask for a default sane setup?
<MartijnVdS> I know postfix does
<SuperMatt> I think the guy wants dovecot too
<SuperMatt> and how he configures that is all up to him
<SuperMatt> I aint gonna touch something that affects someone's privacy
<MartijnVdS> also, 100s of options on how to configure it
<MartijnVdS> all depending on how you're going to use it
<SuperMatt> exactly
<SuperMatt> emailed
<SuperMatt> I gave the guy as much help as I could
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: Cluckin'Bell? </GTA>
<SuperMatt> now that helpouts are official, I should finish off some of the sections of my site
<MooDoo> :)
<SuperMatt> I actually need to do a test hangout before I start
<SuperMatt> oh well
<MooDoo> hehe well if you're online later, I can test hanhout if you need to veify anything, won't be till tonight though
<SuperMatt> well I won't be home until double-plus latae
<SuperMatt> -a
<MooDoo> lol
<SuperMatt> This is the problem with offering to do helpouts, I don't really have much time
<MooDoo> deligate ;)
<MooDoo> have a team to help you out :)
<SuperMatt> that's not a bad idea
<SuperMatt> I don't know if it's possible to create a "team" without handing out my google deets though
<MooDoo> what about doing some irc channel?  #ubuntu-helpouts and having people in there that are willing to do it?
<MooDoo> SuperMatt: channel created ;)
<popey> i dunno if the google hangouts T&C allow that
<popey> s/hangout/helpout/
<MooDoo> raaa
<SuperMatt> you may be right
<MooDoo> well it's there any way :(
<SuperMatt> because they vetted me before I was allowed to put up my listing
<popey> also the whole point of them is to provide 1:1 support from individuals
<popey> if a group does it, you can't guarantee quality
<MooDoo> well the channel is there if people want to use it.
<popey> and who the payment goes to
<SuperMatt> you're right
<SuperMatt> well
<popey> SuperMatt: do you charge for yours?
<SuperMatt> I'm not accepting payments
<SuperMatt> not yet, anyway
<SuperMatt> I would rather not take any payment for it ever
<popey> heh, searched for ubuntu and found you
<SuperMatt> but if I start doing more than one a week, I might have to
<popey> https://helpouts.google.com/104760950939866700163/ls/835dad061e4b03e7
<popey> ooh, it just changed the time dynamically
<SuperMatt> nice
<MooDoo> well the channel is there and registered if people want to use it, if not it can be removed at a later day
<MooDoo> date
<SuperMatt> I figured I should put some availability in
<popey> yeah, looks odd with no time
<SuperMatt> there, I've populated this week and next
<popey> \o/ more Alans
<SuperMatt> oh gawd /o\
<popey> \o/
<SuperAlan> this is too much, even for me
<SuperMatt> though at the next release party, we should all have name badges with Alan written on them
<popey> heh
<MooDoo> http://rlv.zcache.com.au/alan_alan_alan_greeting_cards-ra5595d4991294ff191f088649b9dad03_xvuak_8byvr_512.jpg
<popey> or we could have Alan and Not Alan ones
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<MooDoo> morning brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo
<MooDoo> feeling better today?
<brobostigon> alittle,
<mungbean> just received a nigerian 419 spam that was a scanned PDF. weird
<MooDoo> mungbean: awesome, have you passed them your bank details?
<jussi> Has anyone seen this on chromium before? http://i.imgur.com/lc15rK3.png
<MooDoo> mungbean: check http://www.419eater.com/ :) it's a right giggle
<brobostigon> woop, drum lesson day, :)
<mgdm> niiiice
<popey> jussi: what are we looking at?
<jussi> popey: the menu. It appears if I click on the 1 px space across the top of the screen
<jussi> if you look carfefully, there is a grey line across the top of the screen
<popey> top of the screen or top of the window?
<jussi> screen (as in the screenshot, so the first 1-2px of the picture)
<popey> i have a menu at the top of the screen so can't easily simulate that
<popey> what version of chromium?
<jussi> popey: yeah, its very weird though. I often accidentally click it when I go to click on a tab
<jussi> wait
<jussi> Version 30.0.1599.114 Ubuntu 13.10 (30.0.1599.114-0ubuntu0.13.10.2)
<jussi> This appeared when I upgraded to 13.10. I think its to do with chromium because its not there for other apps, but I wont rule out a KDE something.
<popey> 29 here
 * popey updates and gets 30
<jussi> popey: I looked in the settings also, cant see anything there
<popey> did you left or right click to get that menu?
<popey> i use desktop decorations with chromium too
<popey> rather than those blue abominations
<jussi> left
<jussi> its really like there is a _tiny_ menu bar there
<popey> no idea, sorry
<davmor2> Morning all
<MooDoo> morning davmor2
<MartijnVdS> hi
<davmor2> MooDoo, MartijnVdS: How's life treating you
<TheOpenSourcerer> lol: https://plus.google.com/104060033182234025482/posts/gT7APRj4XSj
<mungbean> "we need a special form to give you a VM." "can you give us the form" "no, nobody knows what the form is, we don't think it exists".
<mungbean> :-|
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Guy Fawkes Day! :-D
<bashrc> It is kind of odd that there is a day to celebrate a terrorist event
<mungbean> its celebrating stopping the terrorist event
<bashrc> I guess so
<directhex> yeah, the ceremonial burning of the terrorist is part of it
<directhex> less bad than what he went through in real life
<mungbean> remember when at the lewes massive bonfire they burned "pikeys" in a caravan?
<directhex> http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_md0vsxfSRQ1r3feq8o1_400.jpg is a pretty basic starting point for guido fawkes' fate
<davmor2> bashrc: no you're wrong, it's a celebration of a terrorist failure which is even funnier :D
<mungbean> even if the gunpoweder plot never happened, we would do fireworks around this time every year, people would just find a reason
<directhex> to celebrate the dvd release of V for Vendetta!
<bigcalm> An old rant by me: http://www.myrant.net/2009/11/09/fireworks-fun-or-explosives-for-all/
<MooDoo> I've just bought some from siansburies, the kids will like them
<davmor2> mungbean: or on the 21st of december to celebrate the winter solstice :D
<penguin42> mungbean: See Diwali, Chanuka etc etc
<mungbean> penguin42: but before multiculturalism, UK would probably have found a reason
<mungbean> wish we cold stnadardise on one day though
<mungbean> for the sake of my pet and children
<mungbean> or just ban fireworks
<MooDoo> I've just purchased a little family pack not that big and bright :)
<popey> I have never seen V for Vendetta
<JamesTait> bigcalm, +1
<popey> bigcalm: sorry to hear about your cat â¹
<bigcalm> popey: thanks
<TheOpenSourcerer> wot popey said bigcalm
<TheOpenSourcerer> I feel starving this morning. Might have to go and find an early lunch...
<TheOpenSourcerer> Suggestions?
<davmor2> bigcalm: what happened, what did I miss and where
<MooDoo> davmor2: it's ok it's sorted, the court has cleared him
<mungbean> anyone running a recent version of liferea?
<mungbean> can't seem to find a ppa for recent releases
<MooDoo> only one I can see is https://launchpad.net/~liferea/+archive/ppa no r release though :(
<bigcalm> davmor2: cat got old (17). Woke up to her hind quarters paralysed. Vet said thrombosis and that they couldn't do anything.
<popey> â»
<popey> er
<popey> â¹
<mungbean> i'm ion 12.04
<mungbean> no 1.10 version
<popey> 1.8.15 in raring
<popey> saucy even
<davmor2> bigcalm: :( man what a bummer you'd just got used to it taking over your life aswell
<mungbean> Stable: 1.10.2
<popey> typing fail today
<bigcalm> Yes
<MooDoo> ah only 1.9.99 in the dev ppa
<davmor2> mungbean: stop being a wuss and build it from source that's what's it there for ;)
<mungbean> thats bad idea
<popey> why?
<mungbean> cos then i don't get updates
<popey> update it yourself
<popey> \o/ open source
<mungbean> and multiply that by 20 apps?
<mungbean> full time job
<davmor2> mungbean: just grab the deb from some where then and see if it installs
<awilkins> One could almost call it forking hell  #channelSafeRudeJoke
<popey> davmor2: still wont get updates then
<davmor2> popey: you can pin it
<popey> i dont think that will help
<popey> he wont get updates
<mungbean> i need to learn how to make my own ppa
<davmor2> popey: well mungbean will have to wait then :D
<mungbean> 1.8 is from 2 yrs ago
<mungbean> and there has been signifcant amount of dev since then
<mungbean> i'd been using lightread which was great but is now stone dead due to google
<JamesTait> Sorry to hear that, bigcalm. :(
<awilkins> Making your own PPA is a bit fraught in my experience
<awilkins> It may have gotten easier
<SuperMatt> got my first helpout!
<popey> \o/
<popey> what did they want?
<SuperMatt> doesn't say
<bashrc> yes it is a bit fraught
<SuperMatt> it's not until tomorrow night
<popey> oh
<mungbean> We will not accept uploads of packages that are unmodified from their original source in Ubuntu or Debian, only packages that include your own changes.
<popey> why would we want a package in a ppa which is completely unmodified?
<popey> note: backporting from raring to precise _is_ modifying
<mungbean> ok
<SuperMatt> ah, it's quite cool, I can start messaging this guy now to find out his requirements
<popey> http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b03g8lxl
 * popey get_iplayers
<MartijnVdS> popey: ooh!
<mungbean> did you have to do the aaclow etc etc
<mungbean> --modes=flashaaclow,flashaacstd,rtspaaclow,rtspaacstd
<popey> I just get_iplayered it
<popey> no fancy parameters
<mungbean> i had to do ./get_iplayer --get --pid=b03g8lxl   --modes=flashaaclow,flashaacstd,rtspaaclow,rtspaacstd
<mungbean> saINFO: No specified modes (flashhigh,flashstd,flashnormal) available for this programme with version 'default' (try using --modes=flashaaclow,flashaacstd,rtspaaclow,rtspaacstd)
<popey> I just did ./get_iplayer --type radio --pid=b03g8lxl
<popey> without the =
<mungbean> ah ok ta
 * bigcalm hugs the web interface
<mungbean> what web interface?
<brobostigon> yummy, chicken toasties, :)
<bigcalm> WARNING: No programmes are available for this pid with version(s): default
<bigcalm> :(
<bigcalm> Doesn't like that pid for me
<brobostigon> it may not be a valid one.
<bigcalm> mungbean: http://linuxcentre.net/getiplayer/get_iplayer-pvr-manager
<bigcalm> Runs its own web server in perl and allows for easy management of recordings. I still have daily recordings happen from crontab though
<bigcalm> I had to do a manual search on the name and now it's recording
<mungbean> if your server isn't always on, are the requests instantaneous if not a future recording?
<bigcalm> The web server interface is just used (by me) for setting up recordings. So I don't run it when I don't need it
<brobostigon> also dont run it on a publiclly open machine either.
<bigcalm> My proliant server is always on, so the cronjobs there fire off recordings once a day with: http://paste.ubuntu.com/6364313/
<mungbean> how many watts does that draw?
 * bigcalm shrugs
<bigcalm> mungbean: popey might know, though I have a slightly newer model than his. And he has all of the harddrives in the whole world crammed into his
<mungbean> ah, its a microserver?
<bigcalm> Yes
<mungbean> i imagined a rackmounted proliant
<mungbean> massive thing
<popey> yeah, mine has 12 drives in it
<popey> and I haven't monitored the power usage
<bigcalm> I have 4 drives in mine running as 2 seperate raids
<mungbean> surprised the PSU can handle 12 drives
<popey> it cant
<popey> the server only has 4 bays (5 if you include the optical bay)
<popey> the other 8 are external
<mungbean> octopus
<dogmatic69> mungbean: I had 2 blades running at home and was around Â£120 pm :/
<mungbean> oof
<dogmatic69> well, before was Â£30 so more like Â£90 for the two
<dogmatic69> All those things are good for is converting money into noise :D
<mungbean> and heat
<dogmatic69> expensive way to heat your house
<awilkins> I have a 13 year old Sempron box running as my MythTV server that I really should replace with something less noisy and thirsty of current
<DJones> czajkowski: This looks like something for you https://scontent-b-lhr.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/q71/988325_593626000722435_1406973811_n.jpg
<czajkowski> ohh yes
<mungbean> bad idea to put food next to the laptop fan outlet when running a VM
<mungbean> warm fruit ewwww
<DJones> That could have been worse, it might have been an ice cream, but at least you know what to do next time you have soup
<mungbean> warm crisps are unplaesant too
 * popey had a warm meatball wrap
<mungbean> i'm full but i keep on eating :(
<MartijnVdS> mungbean, popey: --mode=best works for me
<mungbean> handy
<mungbean> resolving dependencies sucks. there must be a better way
<BigRedS> get someone else to?
<mungbean> hence the pPA discussion
<BigRedS> oh, I missed a PPA discussion; do those take care of dependencies automagically?
<mungbean> they install a deb from somebody who did the work ;)
<BigRedS> yeah, I've pondered creating a PPA before rather than rolling my own debs
<BigRedS> because that's a lot of faff and, presumably, I can deduce a line for a debian sources.list so I can use it on non-Ubuntu computers :)
<BigRedS> I think all that's stopped me before is the need to sign the  CoC
<jpds> You could always take the Launchpad source code and build your own buildd farm.
<mungbean> i don't have a problem with the CoC
<jpds> Oh wait.
<BigRedS> jpds: that sounds harder than the odd debuild
<BigRedS> mungbean: yeah, I've nothing against it. It's just a step I've not done and I'd probably need to make gpg work again etc.
<mungbean> No package 'sqlite3' found
<mungbean> grrrr
<mungbean> it is installed
<mungbean> they wanted libwxsqlite3-2.8-dev
<jussi> Myrtti: are you about?
<GentileBen> Myrtti did you get your N5?
<GentileBen> The bastards didn't deliver to my house yesterday (nobod home...).
<directhex> huh. unity3d free for xbox one developers. wonder how many xbone developers will ship on other unity3d platforms while they're at it
<mgdm> wow
<Laney> bah
 * Laney gives in to the gods of central heating
<MooDoo> oh laney laney it's not that cold.
 * AlanBell has spent all day trying to get warm
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: same here
<Laney> feels cold to me
<davmor2> MooDoo: speak for yourself in your airconned building at a regulated temperature in the really world it's between 9-11 C that's chilly enough :P
 * GentileBen throws another cheese log on MartijnVdS' fire
<GentileBen> davmor2, I'm in an air-conditioned building.
<GentileBen> We have vents in the floor and everything.
<GentileBen> It's sometimes a shock when you step outside...
<hamitron> put an extra jumper on
<hamitron> ;)
<GentileBen> hamitron = Tory boy
<ali1234> BigRedS: you don't need to sign the CoC to make a PPA
<GentileBen> Us socialists set fire to the third bar.
<ali1234> i know it says you do, but you don't
<hamitron> tbh, I have 4 jumpers on.... no heating here
<ali1234> you do need a gpg key though
<AlanBell> some of the code of conduct stuff got relaxed because Launchpad gets used for quite a bit of not-ubuntu stuff
<hamitron> can you unsign it?
<ali1234> yes
<hamitron> tbh, I can't even remember what it said
<ali1234> hamitron: http://members.scouts.org.uk/supportresources/2943/scout-promise-law-an
 * hamitron checks this is still the ubuntu channel
<AlanBell> dyb dyb dyb
<bashrc> AFAIK you do need to sign the CoC to create a PPA
<ali1234> you don't https://launchpad.net/~a-j-buxton
<Myrtti> uh, hum
<Myrtti> yes
<Myrtti> about 20 to two o'clock yesterday
<Myrtti> GentileBen ^
<Myrtti> jussi: barely
<mungbean> after suspend/restore, my laptop brightness gets stuck at low - any suggestions how to reset it ?
<davmor2> mungbean: turn it up
<mungbean> nope, the hotkeys stop working
<mungbean> um actually
<mungbean> they *did* stop working
<mungbean> forget i said anything :P
<davmor2> mungbean: they work fine here, except the volume keys
<mungbean> yeah it's a toshiba...
<mungbean> only happens after a suspend
<davmor2> mungbean: don't suspend
<Myrtti> oh yes, also managed to get a new 3 sim working after the fail of yesterday, so I guess I might be finally flashing my galaxy nexus with Ubuntu touch today
<awilkins> I found my brightness hotkeys started to work with 13.10 on my HP G72  \o/
<davmor2> Myrtti: enjoy I recommend using trusty as the base it's much smoother than Saucy
<awilkins> It's a shame about the silly input locale thing that makes it boot into US keyboard layout until you flip out of X with ctrl-alt-F1 and back with ctrl-alt-F7
<davmor2> mungbean: isn't there a package for toshiba I might be dreaming let me have a look
<davmor2> mungbean: apt-cahce search toshiba there are a few packages that might help you
<mungbean> thanks
<mungbean> man , doing debbuild for PPA is a pain
<mungbean> make and make install work fine.
<bigcalm> Anybody here bought a Moga Pro?
<AlanBell> We are crowdfunding a cluster of Pis . . . http://igg.me/at/ubupi/x/5206923 to build Ubuntu
<mgdm> AlanBell: is there a reason other than "it's fun" you can't do the actual building on qemu? (Genuinely curious!)
<mgdm> I just imagine the RPi being really inefficient and going through SD cards like nobody's business
<AlanBell> well qemu is probably a bit inefficient, and I don't want to pay for a heap of cloud time and end up with nothing to show for it
<mungbean> compiling rpms is 1000x easier and more intuitive :(
<AlanBell> click packages might be simpler mungbean
<mungbean> oh, it seems to have worked!
<AlanBell> bit phone focussed at the moment, but the idea is that desktop things that are appish will be done that way
<mungbean> i haz a deb file!
<AlanBell> yay
<mungbean> blindly typing commands
<mgdm> AlanBell: I have an underutilized OVH box I'd be happy to turn into a buildbot until the RPis show up?
<directhex> mungbean, rpm is better in a small number of regards, but is generally really archaic and stupid
<directhex> i've done RPMs for SLES for my last job
<directhex> so many features i consider basic are missing
<mungbean> they are dumb but handy
<AlanBell> mgdm: we have plenty of intel servers, the cluster is an interesting side project though :)
<mgdm> AlanBell: fairy nuff
<mungbean> deb fails to install :(
<mungbean> trying to overwrite '/usr/share/icons/hicolor/24x24/apps/liferea.png', which is also in package liferea-data 1.8.3-0.1ubuntu2
<mungbean> oh well, one to look at tomorrow
<mungbean> ah did not read the error :D
<directhex> if that's intentional, you can mark your package as Replaces: liferea-data, which means dpkg will allow any file from liferea-data to be overwritten by a file from your package
<directhex> if it's unintentional and your package's installation should remove liferea-data, then you want a Breaks: liferea-data
<ali1234> AlanBell: qemu is faster than real hardware...
<ali1234> AlanBell: and again, OBS is the answer to all your problems
 * AlanBell thinks ali1234 is %100 right, but carrys on anyway :)
<ali1234> hell, you can probably do this in the opensuse instance at zero cost
<ali1234> the initial bootstrap might be a bit tricky but you'll have that problem no matter how you do it
<ali1234> plus it's been done before - we had the same problem with meego
<ali1234> so, how are you going to bootstrap it anyway, given that the pi can't run the existing packages?
<ali1234> surely you want to make a build farm out of hardware that can run the official toolchain in order to be able to build your own...
<directhex> qemu isn't appropriate.
<AlanBell> open to advice on getting started, either building from raspbian initially, or cross compile from Ubuntu I guess
<directhex> i could probably give advice on it, if i had time
<AlanBell> well the campaign is running to christmas and I am kind of aiming for a 14.04 release date for a bootable SD card that runs *something*
<directhex> shouldn't be too hard
<directhex> the hard part is deciding whether to do it right, or do it easy
<ali1234> AlanBell: you may find this useful: http://al.robotfuzz.com/~al/random/cpucheck-0.2.tar.gz
<MartijnVdS> \o/ Hyperbole and a Half book arrived
<ali1234> AlanBell: i highly suggest you don't use a power supply for every pi
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: how would that work?
<ali1234> you get one beefy power supply and a splitter cable
<ali1234> i was talking about this on someone's G+
<ali1234> looking for it now
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: they got your name a bit wrong on that blog
<ali1234> dwatkins: was it you?
<penguin42> ali1234: They can power off USB can't they?
<ali1234> sure
<penguin42> so just a good (ok rare) USB PSU with multiple outputs
<ali1234> the point is you don't want 32 dc adapters
<penguin42> nod
<shauno> an ATX supply might not be a terrible idea.  cheap & plentiful, and a 400W supply should give you about 40A on the 5V rail
<shauno> and the interwebs are littered with tutorials for converting them to bench supplies, so you don't have to make it up as you go along
<directhex> ok, right
<directhex> if i might make an observation
<AlanBell> ali1234: yeah, I would like to not use a power supply per pi
<directhex> what you want, AlanBell, from the *hardware* perspective, is to rackmount things, and have independent individual power control over each board, to allow for power cycling
<AlanBell> shauno: that is a good idea, I was wondering how to get a high amp 5v rail
<ali1234> you don't want ATX
<ali1234> you won't be loading it properly
<directhex> i.e. you want something one of our engineers designed & constructed for rack-mounting a dozen ARM boards
<AlanBell> interesting
<MartijnVdS> http://raspberrycolocation.com/
<AlanBell> yeah, seen that MartijnVdS
<directhex> http://vincentsanders.blogspot.co.uk/2013/04/when-you-make-something-cleaning-it-out.html
<popey> http://www.amazon.co.uk/PicknBuy-ports-individual-Switch-Black/dp/B005JNZTYU
<popey> like that it has switches
<AlanBell> it is possible to feed 5v into the GPIO pins instead of through the microusb port
<AlanBell> but then you need to be really sure it is a good 5v
<ali1234> check the schematic, but yes i think so
<AlanBell> interesting, not entirely clear it can support 7 power hungry things, it is a hub, not just a power distribution unit
<popey> yeah
<popey> but something like that would be nice
<AlanBell> but it might be a start for something to canibalise
<directhex> no good if you end up needing storage
<ali1234> https://plus.google.com/114588339784440319020/posts/7ZPVXnmyimz
<AlanBell> so, do you think that running cat5 to them all would be better than wifi?
<ali1234> yessss
<popey> without a doubt
<ali1234> 32 devices on wifi? lol
<AlanBell> given that the network on the pi is kinda hanging off the USB anyhow and wifi N should be quite quick
<directhex> i'm just saying we've *done* this, in production, albeit with freescale imx5/imx6 boards and only one pi
<AlanBell> directhex: yeah, reading the article, looks like a nice build
<AlanBell> depends a bit how the funding goes really as to what approach is best
<AlanBell> it doesn't need to be rack mounted and I don't want any fans really
<directhex> i was out fetching the boy, so i missed a bunch of backlog
<directhex> what was your plan regarding the dpkg architecture?
<AlanBell> open to suggestions, my thought was to start from raspbian, and build enough of it to self-host for the rest of the build
<directhex> yeah, that's how you bootstrap an architecture
<directhex> but the question was more about how you name it
<directhex> so in debian, there's "armel" which is ARMv4 with no add-ons. there's "armhf" which is ARMv7 with floating point
<AlanBell> oh, like a variation on armhf
<AlanBell> raspbian calls it armhf, but I think that is tweaked in a way I don't understand yet
<directhex> raspbian overloads the "armhf" name for ARMv6 with floating point, so armhf packages don't work on raspbian but raspbian's "armhf" packages do
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: hf means it uses the hardware floating point bits
<directhex> ubuntu armhf is the same as debian, in that it targets ARMv7 with floating point
<AlanBell> MartijnVdS: yeah, I know that bit, I just wasn't sure about the bit directhex is currently explaining so well :)
<ali1234> call it: armpit
<AlanBell> so I don't know the answer to this at all, can we just make an armrp architecture or something?
<MartijnVdS> armv6hf
<directhex> AlanBell, so what you're doing here is rebuilding ubuntu for ARMv6 with floating point. i guess what i'm asking is whether you plan on co-opting an incompatible architecture's name, or adding an arch name which is clearly not compatible
<AlanBell> armpit is good :)
<MartijnVdS> but then, armv7 could probably run armv6 code?
<directhex> MartijnVdS, yes
<directhex> AlanBell, working on mono i have a lot of exposure to this, as it's not as simple as "what does GCC do" - the question is "what does the JITter generate?"
<AlanBell> I don't know enough to answer the question really, I think I would lean towards a clearly not compatible arch name, however I don't know how much additional pain that would cause
<directhex> AlanBell, if you add an architecture name, you have benefitsof not needing to support users who say "X app doesn't work" where X was downloaded for "real" armhf or armel (whichever you abuse)
<ali1234> why wouldn't armel work?
<directhex> but if you add an arch name, you need to do more work - e.g. every source package with a hardcoded arch list would need modifying
<ali1234> i mean an armel package
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: little endian, no hardware floating point
<MartijnVdS> ?
<AlanBell> yeah, people who mix what we build with packages for raspbian might get in trouble
<ali1234> armhf is big endian?
<popey> creating a new name sounds like pain
<directhex> ali1234, armhf libs & apps can't call into armel libs
<directhex> ali1234, the ABI is different. type lengths, register targets, etc
<ali1234> oh, i thought it was only the other way around
<AlanBell> and it would be nice if someone could have a deb that supports raspbian and ubuntu
<directhex> ali1234, you can run both on the same kernel, but you need to start from the ground up (i.e. libc)
<AlanBell> so maybe abusing armhf is worth doing
<directhex> AlanBell, then you want to re-use the armhf name
<jussi> Myrtti: was wondering if you have any opinions on Netflix vs Viaplay? which one is better? are they the same with a different name?
<Myrtti> jussi: no opinions, haven't tried viaplay and my opinions on netflix are limited on the experience I had a year ago on Nexus 7
<jussi> Myrtti: ok, fair enough :)
<davmor2> ha fox news got hacked
<daftykins> ooh? :)
<DJones> davmor2: Its probably Apple getting their own back on a Fox family of channels website for taking the mickey out of Siri in the Simpsons
<davmor2> daftykins: they fixed it now but it did look like this http://i.imgur.com/egOb8Eg.jpg
<daftykins> heh
<daftykins> in fairness i had to really look to notice a difference since i'm not familiar with their site :D
<davmor2> daftykins: it's fox I thought it was their headlines :D
 * popey times building glibc on ubuntu on rpi
<ali1234> davmor2: that screenshot is weird. it has a mixture of stuff from months ago and stuff from today...
<diddledan> ok, other than "here is some stuff yo" and "weeeeeeeeeeeeee - stuff yo" it looks pretty normal to me
<popey> so it turns out building glibc on a pi takes $TIME++
<popey> â»
<popey> Who'd have thunk it
<ali1234> slow cpu, slow storage... yeah
<davmor2> me me I'd of thunk it popey building anything on a pi takes an age
<davmor2> ali1234: you forgot low memory too
<ali1234> 512mb is a lot
<ali1234> should be enough for glibc
<diddledan> --gfx
<ali1234> it's not like you're running unity or something
<davmor2> it's enough for anything but like anything more helps on pc's :)
<diddledan> yeah, but you still need to remove some of that 512 for the gfx
<daftykins> i returned to the system that was doing an upgrade between 10.04.4 and 12.04.3 today
<ali1234> 512mb might not be enough for large C++ things
<daftykins> it had yet another lovely full-of-squares character set fail dialogue box :D
<AlanBell> diddledan: 16MB for graphics
<MartijnVdS> OpenCL compiling?
<ali1234> raspberry pi doesn't support opencl
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: hmm
<davmor2> popey: build libreoffice from source you know you want to :D
<popey> mine doesn't have 512MB â»
<MartijnVdS> popey: you have Ye Olde Raspberrye Pye?
<popey> ya
<ali1234> just use qemu... it will be about 10x faster
<AlanBell> I have a couple of new ones and a ye olde
<popey> nah, this is fun â»
<diddledan> I have thee ye olde
<diddledan> three*
<mungbean> directhex: thanks, while file do i put the breaks: replaces: bits in?
<mungbean> why does everyone have industrial/event scale fireworks in their back gardens this year?
<daftykins> haha
<daftykins> intermittent distant bangs going off here
<mungbean> serious competition going on with neighbours
<mungbean> massive "cake" style fireworks kicking off
<mungbean> amazed my son went to sleep
<daftykins> hrmm i just tried out these 1080p 60fps videos of new game titles on the new generation of consoles, the videos don't play smoothly on my poor nvidia ion1 based HTPC :)
<directhex> mungbean, debian/control, under the relevant Package: line
<mungbean> thx
 * AlanBell isn't keen on cake fireworks for gardens
<AlanBell> single ignition displays are dangerous
<daubers> The kitten doesn't like them either
<AlanBell> if they are not secured and fall over you have another 99 shots coming at you
<mungbean> few people have been putting them 10m away on the field opposite (houses only one side along a cul de sac). not clever either
<mungbean> falls over and its like the blitz on your doorstep
<ali1234> did you guys read that story about the mayor of the town who went around blowing up cars?
<ali1234> ex-mayor sorry
<shauno> was that the one who was running them over with a tank?
<AlanBell> I get cheap small fireworks from Lidl, I used to set off displays, cat3/cat4 stuff but I only do the smallest stuff possible in the garden
<mungbean> boris biker got killed today outside my office
<MartijnVdS> cat4? isn't that hard for even 100mbit? ;)
<ali1234> shauno: no, he was just throwing around home made bombs
<AlanBell> mungbean: oh no :(
<daftykins> ali1234: what was his motiviation?
<daftykins> *motivation
<ali1234> the lulz apparently
<daftykins> bloody SSH lag
<ali1234> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2474906/Denbigh-ex-mayor-John-Larsen-guilty-blowing-car.html
<ali1234> sorry about DM links
<shauno> ali1234: there was one a while back who was driving an APC over cars that were illegally parked
<mungbean> all i see is kittens
<ali1234> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-north-east-wales-24653507
<mungbean> weird, liferea ran once now refuses to display
<mungbean> better try when i'm not 10 miles away from the machnine
<mungbean> recvfrom(6, 0x1352f24, 4096, 0, 0, 0)   = -1 EAGAIN (Resource temporarily unavailable)
<DJones> mungbean: We've had to send our dog to my parents, he'd be going balistic if he was at home, he really doesn't like them
<AlanBell> ali1234: my uncle lives in denbigh, last time I went to visit him I was diverted because the bomb squad had closed the road
<ali1234> hmm... definitely related
<mungbean> you can give dognip to dogs
<mungbean> fllower remedies and/or evening primrose oil
<mungbean> and some pheromone sprays 3 weeks in advamve
<mungbean> but ours only gets tetchy when we're in bed so she's protecting the house
<AlanBell> ali1234: in fact, that photo at the top is of the day I was there, I saw that bit by the building site
<ali1234> well, now you know...
<ali1234> unless you already knew
<AlanBell> I would have turned left by the blue tent :)
<DJones> mungbean: Yeah, this is after he's been on calming med's for the last 10 days
<DJones> mungbean: If he'd been at home, he'd have a valium in his tea
<mungbean> sounds nice
<daftykins> heh silly dogs
<MartijnVdS> omg.. AFC Wimbledon, now supported by a FIFA-playing author: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxAmFy3Wjd8
<daftykins> you and your nasty sports
 * penguin42 tries to upgrade his Indy that hasn't been booted for about 12 years (Debian)
<directhex> is that big or little endian?
<penguin42> big
<directhex> hmph
<directhex> these days the only things with big endian mips in are network switches
<ali1234> hmm someone signed up for craigslist with my email
<ali1234> looks like someone thnks my email address is theirs
<dwatkins> ali1234: not sure, although I would have said the same about using a dedicated power supply, or not splitting the current between things
<directhex> ali1234, http://xkcd.com/1279/
<ali1234> dwatkins: it was daubers
<dwatkins> aha ok
<penguin42> ali1234: Yeh they're rare these days
<ali1234> i wouldn't care but they are apparently posting in *that* part of craigslist
<daftykins> ali1234: welcome to my world! i have a handful of 'friends' across the US that keep signing me up to stuff
<ali1234> this explains all the weird dating site emails i got last month too
<daftykins> i keep resetting Debi in Scottsdale, Arizona's account passwords, logging in and trying to cancel her online orders to make her realise that i will not put up with it any longer
<mungbean> i've received rude pics too
<daftykins> :O
<mungbean> large ladies taking photos of themselves in underwear
<mungbean> and worse
<mungbean> no title or anything
<mungbean> so a bit of a shock sometimes
<daftykins> :S
<mungbean> i delete and hope the wife doesn't see my unsolicited admirers
<daftykins> mungbean: i'd need a day off work after such a traumatic experience
<mungbean> usually its a random pic in a bar
<mungbean> "hey i like that pic, send it me"
<mungbean> mungbean@gmail.com
<mungbean> nope, mungbean56, woops too late
<diddledan> kernel 3.12 aparently includes support for powerup up and down nvidia optimus chips
<daftykins> very good news
 * popey is on 3.12
<popey> not had any gpu lockups yet
<popey> only been 14 hours though
 * popey launches minecraft which will do it
<diddledan> and metro last light is now on steam for linux
<diddledan> and unrelated: the screen on the nexus 5 is wow
<daftykins> hrmm i am getting concerned with my boiler which fires up quite regularly, gurgles a bit, then shuts off
<daftykins> i guess it's just maintaining temperature on a volume of water?
<daftykins> but it never used to do it so often i thought
<ali1234> oh lordy, the replies from craigslist are rolling in
<daftykins> promise them the earth
<penguin42> daftykins: You do get failure modes where they decide they've got too hot and shut themselves off - any failure codes or anything like that?
<diddledan> ooh, specific rim is available on android download
<daftykins> penguin42: hrmm i shall have a gander at the display but i don't think so, as it just kicks in for a few seconds then off as though it's bringing itself up to temp
<penguin42> daftykins: How often?
<daftykins> seems to be at least hourly now
<daftykins> display just reads 52 deg C at and that's it, so i think all's fine
<daftykins> doesn't help that it's in an outhouse (:
<daftykins> i really need to wire up an internal control soon, else winter won't be fun
<daftykins> have to nip out my back door and into the outhouse and flick it on and off manually for any central heating use
<diddledan> ouch
<penguin42> daftykins: Yes, ending up doing things like http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K53yjs7e9KQ
<daftykins> you know it actually has been dipping cold then warming up again in the shower lately!
<daftykins> perhaps i've got the dials too high then
<daftykins> penguin42: you may well be onto something there - thanks :)
<shauno> mr bell has me wanting to cluster a bunch of pis just to figure it out, but I have no need/reason/budget :/
<daftykins> shauno: XD
<daftykins> i'm off, laters all \o
<shauno> counting the open ports on my switches, multiplying by 35 euro, 'n thinking .. hmmm
<penguin42> daftykins: For us what we had was it would cut off in the shower and go cold
<shauno> mine did the gurgling thing for a while, but I suspect a completely different resolution.  I just had to bleed the supply line (oil heating ..)
<penguin42> daftykins: It turned out when the pump in ours exploded a few years back they fitted the wrong - lower flow rate - version and it was never quite right until that was noticed
<penguin42> I worry about google; how long have they known me? When I search for    dvhtool coff kernel   and it gives me a page on Kennel cough as the top match?!
<Azelphur> penguin42: http://bitcoincharts.com/charts/mtgoxUSD#rg30ztgTzm1g10zm2g25
<Azelphur> just figured I'd show you this
<Azelphur> sometimes, I love bitcoin :P
<Azelphur> banks won't give you that kinda interest, hahaha
<penguin42> Azelphur: Damn you - I hate being reminded why I should have bought something....
<Azelphur> xD
<Azelphur> I'm sitting on 115 BTC, so in the past month that's $12650 up in value
 * penguin42 cries
<Azelphur> hehe
<AlanBell> nice
<shauno> I assume you read that one about the guy who bought $27 in 2007, and then forgot about it?
<Azelphur> shauno: indeed, pretty cool
<Azelphur> I'm not quite that lucky, but I bought the majority of my BTC at Â£8
<Azelphur> and another massive pile at 80
<penguin42> Azelphur: It wasn't you who had the high end search rig for them?
<shauno> he cashed out 1/5th of them and bought an appartment in oslo :/  so that's .. $5.40?
<AlanBell> sadly indiegogo doesn't take bitcoins :)
<Azelphur> penguin42: I also have a high end mining rig :)
<AlanBell> as far as I am aware
<Azelphur> shauno: I still think the first bitcoin transaction is the best one
<Azelphur> someone bought a pizza for 10,000 BTC
<AlanBell> gosh
<Azelphur> which now days is approximately 1.5 million GBP
<AlanBell> http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/a-raspberry-pi-build-cluster-for-ubuntu/x/5206923 got some pledges in already :)
 * Azelphur watches
<shauno> I'm curious, why 32 nodes? or is it just a nice round number
<AlanBell> nice round number
<AlanBell> it appears to be enough to do it in a reasonable timescale, it would be nice to have more, but you have to pick something as a target
<AlanBell> much less than that and it isn't really a crowdfunding project, much more than that and it becomes an over-ambitious target
<shauno> hm, indiegogo to the mandatory postcode fail :(
#ubuntu-uk 2013-11-06
<ball> Wish I had some fireworks.
<ali1234> AlanBell: it can be done: http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/bitcoin-dark-wallet
<ali1234> also you can buy raspis for bitcoin on bitcoinin.com
<MooDoo> morning all
<shauno> http://www.muktware.com/2013/11/ubuntu-developers-start-indiegogo-campaign-raspberry-pi-build-cluster/15543   verdict is in; "not as ambitious as was the Ubuntu Edge"
<Myrtti> shauno: lol, not "I have a brain"?
<shauno> I thought it was nice to see :)  but they could have caught him at a better moment for a screengrab
<Myrtti> it's always nice to see an Alan, but calling it "not as ambitious as Ubuntu Edge" is a bit of a... statement
<Myrtti> I can't decide is it an under or overstatement
<popey> 654 Minutes to build glibc on pi
<shauno> that's not too bad
<shauno> back when I was young/stupid enough to do linux-from-scratch on a regular basis, glibc was an allnighter  (and firefox/openoffice were measured in days)
<TheOpenSourcerer> shauno: Yep. Me too.
<TheOpenSourcerer> That's where I "cut my teeth" as it were
<popey> \o/ spotify on my ubuntu phone
<popey> http://popey.com/~alan/phablet/device-2013-11-06-074840.png
<shauno> now, overclock the pi, make clean & try again?  curious to see what 700MHz vs 1GHz means in the real world ;)
<popey> thats not a bad idea
<Myrtti> oh I remember the days when I was still somewhat interested in hardware
<Myrtti> back when AMD Thunderbird 750MHz was the latest hot new thing and I had to try to connect the pins with a pencil
<Myrtti> but anyway, do go on
<popey> haha, overclocked it to 950, crashed as soon as I give it any load at all
<shauno> well, that's worth knowing too
 * popey puts pi away
<TheOpenSourcerer> I appear to have lost my clock/calendar from the top bar in 13.10...
<TheOpenSourcerer> Any ideas where it has gone?
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: Where you're going, you won't need clocks ;)
<popey> http://askubuntu.com/questions/45970/missing-date-time-from-top-panel-of-unity-desktop
<popey> kill unity-panel-service
<popey> known bug which I believe is fixed and is coming down the pipe
<popey> bug 1199877 may be related
<lubotu3> bug 1199877 in indicator-appmenu (Ubuntu) "unity-panel-service memory leak and 100% CPU usage" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1199877
<TheOpenSourcerer> That worked - thanks popey
<popey> np
<TheOpenSourcerer> lol - just did a apt-get update/dist-upgrade and the following updates look interesting "gnome-control-center-datetime indicator-datetime"
<popey> â»
<SuperMatt> morning
<MooDoo> morning SuperMatt popey
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<SuperMatt> morning calmy
<MooDoo> mornin bigcalm
<popey> yo yo yo
<MartijnVdS> g'mornin everyone
<MooDoo> morning MartijnVdS
<SuperMatt> well, helpouts are already off to a shakey start
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Stress Awareness Day!  :-D
<SuperMatt> people requesting specific hardware advice, or "how to install and use nfs"
<SuperMatt> I don't mind helping with the latter, at least getting started, but if your function buttons aren't working, better hit up askubuntu
<jussi> JamesTait: do you have random 8 ball thing that spits out a day name for you? :P
<JamesTait> jussi, oh no, nothing like that.  If I did that I'd have no idea what day it was myself!
<JamesTait> jussi, I haz intarwebz!
<MartijnVdS> \o/ intarwebs
<MartijnVdS> JamesTait: Thanks, now I'm aware of stress..
<JamesTait> It's also Saxophone day, apparently.
<JamesTait> So, http://youtu.be/2j7uAimpx3k?t=25s
<Myrtti> is it? is it?
<MartijnVdS> JamesTait: not Careless Whisper?
<mungbean> baker st?
<mungbean> pink panther?
<JamesTait> MartijnVdS, or a rickroll?
<mungbean> the song from taxi driver?
<MartijnVdS> JamesTait: not on saxophone
<JamesTait> MartijnVdS, clearly you still have much to learn. ;)
<MartijnVdS> nah I just have a proper music taste ;)
<Myrtti> ok, that's better than epic sax guy
<Myrtti> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gy1B3agGNxw
<Myrtti> aka https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxopViU98Xo
<mungbean> it was baker st!
<mungbean> good guess
<JamesTait> That appears to be some kind of mutated violin.
<JamesTait> Oh.  Oh dear.
<JamesTait> mungbean gets the prize!
<JamesTait> * see MartijnVdS for details.
<mungbean> my deb file is 6k. i think something went wrong
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: it's just very easy to compress
<mungbean> getting cheesed off with this :(
<mungbean> seems like unecessarily complex
<bigcalm> czajkowski: is this in your future? https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/7874504192/h59789D87/
<MooDoo> lo
<MooDoo> l]
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<MartijnVdS> \o brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning MartijnVdS
<SuperMatt> http://hardware.slashdot.org/story/13/11/05/2337257/robots-can-learn-to-hold-knives-and-not-stab-humans researchers at Cornell are teaching robots how to not stab people
<SuperMatt> I think this is very important research
<diddledan> SuperMatt: they're not self-aware yet though
<SuperMatt> http://signup.bribe.io/
<SuperMatt> bribe devs into fixing a bug
<diddledan> lol
<MartijnVdS> So it's the old "bug bounty" system that didn't work then?
<diddledan> MartijnVdS: I think it's a bit wider than a single project's bounty programme
<bigcalm> Surprised that this tweet is still getting favourites and retweets https://twitter.com/bigcalm/status/303095108872585216/photo/1
<SuperMatt> is that on one or two graphics cards?
<bigcalm> SuperMatt: one
<SuperMatt> dang
<bigcalm> 2 x DVI, 1 x HDMI
<SuperMatt> I've never managed to get it working on two
<MooDoo> nice :)
<bigcalm> For reference, this is a follow up post: http://www.myrant.net/2013/02/17/multi-screen-with-ubuntu-unity/
<DJones> Anybody going to try for this http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-24828750 I'm somewhat past the the age it mentions
<SuperMatt> man, that would be nice
<SuperMatt> but I cba
<bigcalm> Can you act?
<SuperMatt> yes
<SuperMatt> I've done a lot of it
<DJones> bigcalm: What does being able to act have to do with being in movies, Jean Claude Van Damm.... I rest my case :)
<bigcalm> Fnar
<mungbean> bzr builddeb -S fails with  clearsign failed: secret key not available
<mungbean> any suggestions?
<mungbean> i have a gpg key i want to use
<bigcalm> DJones: I love his beer adverts
<DJones> bigcalm: The adverts are ok, but the beer is awful, and I have to say he hasn't aged well
<bigcalm> I'm not a fan of such beers myself
<davmor2> Morning all
<bigcalm> Hi davmor2
<MooDoo> moring davmor2
<DJones> Morningt davmor2
<davmor2> How's Mrs bigcalm ?
<bigcalm> davmor2: struggling with the new surname
<davmor2> bigcalm: has Hayley gone through the million and one signatures to figure out which she likes yet
<bigcalm> davmor2: the 1st time she tried her new signature was when we went to the bank to change her name there
<davmor2> bigcalm: haha
<davmor2> MooDoo: Had a look at some of those Photo's chap, some of them looked really funky, nice one :)
<MooDoo> davmor2: which photos?
<davmor2> MooDoo: I got an email from Flikr or off facebook pointing at your recent Photos,   Mixture of kids by a lake, some scenery shoots etc
<davmor2> MooDoo: let me have a dig and I'll find the link
<MooDoo> davmor2: http://www.flickr.com/photos/paulmellorsphotography/sets/72157635062528102/ this lot?
<davmor2> MooDoo: that's the ones
<MooDoo> davmor2: yeah thanks, friend wanted some family pictures.
<mungbean> can anyone help with my question up there ^^
<SuperMatt> mungbean: alas, I cannot
<davmor2> mungbean: I don't know what the question is without digging in irssi
<mungbean>  bzr builddeb -S fails with  clearsign failed: secret key not available
<mungbean> OH
<mungbean> it works
<SuperMatt> \o/
<SuperMatt> well done
<SuperMatt> pebkac fixed
<mungbean> i changed debian/changelog to be the exact phrase outpuuted by gpg --list-keys
<davmor2> mungbean: liar liar pants on fire :P
<popey> Êâ¿à² 
<mungbean> which bit ?
<davmor2> mungbean: yes shockingly it does expect your exact key to be there :)
<mungbean> yes but even the comment (Launchpad signing key)
<mungbean> had to be present
<mungbean> i thought the env variables should be sufficient
<davmor2> mungbean: daft question but you did do bzr launchpad-login and bzr whoami right?
<mungbean> yesh
<mungbean> this is mega tedious
<mungbean> and has put me off the whole thing :(
<davmor2> mungbean: and your key is available in LP right?  Cause that's all I've ever needed
<popey> which guide are you following?
<popey> seems way more complex than I'd do
<mungbean> i have 50 tabs open, mostly on ubuntu.com
<mungbean> http://developer.ubuntu.com/packaging/html/packaging-new-software.html
<mungbean> http://developer.ubuntu.com/packaging/html/getting-set-up.html
<mungbean> etc
<popey> but you're not packaging something new are you?
<popey> you're just rebuilding something existing for another release?
<mungbean> i'm not rebuilding a saucy version though
<mungbean> i'm doing a newer version
<popey> a new upstream version?
<mungbean> i haven't found documents that suggest any easier way
<mungbean> popey: yes
<popey> well the super easy way is to file a bug and get someone else to do it ã
<mungbean> i thought this might be a useful exercise
<mungbean> didn't quite realise what was involved
<popey> I probably wouldn't have done it the way you did, but there's always multiple ways to skin a cat
<penguin42> mungbean: The changelog formats are very very fussy for every part of them
<popey> file a bug to get 1.10.1 in trusty, and then request backport to saucy/raring/precise etc
<popey> http://askubuntu.com/questions/75352/how-to-request-a-package-upgrade-in-the-next-ubuntu-release
<mungbean> ok, feels like defeat but meh
<mungbean> at least i have the deb file for the meantine
<mungbean> cheesr
<popey> other people benefit from this though
<mungbean> yep, if it gets done - is it usually successful>
<popey> in fact
<popey> just needs sync from debian
<popey> as sid has 1.10.3
<popey> (you probably could have grabbed the deb from http://packages.debian.org/sid/liferea
<popey> alan@deep-thought:~/Downloads$ liferea -v
<popey> Liferea 1.10.3
<popey> done
<popey> â»
<mungbean> isn't that considered "bad"
<GentileBen> Myrtti I got my N5. How's your battery life been?
<Myrtti> it's better than my Galaxy Nexus
<mungbean> there's lots of ways to get the app, but thought i would learn the PPA thing as an exercise, just didn't realise how complex it was
<popey> yeah, as I said, multiple ways to skin cat
<mungbean> think i just did them all
<mungbean> only bones left now
<Myrtti> just got the Spigen champagne case for the phone
<Myrtti> looks surprisingly posh
<popey> Laney: is it possible to "requestsync" but say you want to keep the ubuntu changes?
<Laney> sync means you want to drop them
<Laney> so, no
<popey> because it seems by default it assumes I want to sync from debian and overwrite..
<popey> right
<Laney> what's wanted here is a merge
<mungbean> FYI the debian one don't work without a bunch of deps
<popey> works here
<popey> (on saucy)
<mungbean> later version of libglib etc
<mungbean> precise
<Laney> grim
<Laney> you'll want to try rebuilding it
<popey> right, it would get rebuilt during backporting
<popey> ?
<Laney> assuming it doesn't need any new dependency versions that you don't have in precise
<mungbean> my locally built one works
<mungbean> i.e. copying the deb from my precise build box
<davmor2> Myrtti: did you put UT on your galaxy nexus yet?
<mungbean> and install works on a clean machine
<mungbean> after all that, dilbert RSS feed has stopped working :(
<Myrtti> davmor2: nope, D had to go to work at six today so he had to go to bed so early we managed to barely eat a tinned soup before bedtime after he came home from work
<Myrtti> maybe today
<Myrtti> I'm apparently going to be the guinea pig
<popey> \o/ soup
<Myrtti> if it works fine for me, he's going to do it on his aswell
<davmor2> Myrtti: \o/ for having a job, \o/ for soup, boo for the getting up tw'early and \o/ for putting UT on tonight :)
<Myrtti> what I really want is a Ubuntu themed cover for GN
<Myrtti> I hope the merchandise guys act on my suggestion soonish :-P
<davmor2> Myrtti: http://www.zazzle.co.uk/pink_purple_galaxy_glitter_girly_nebula_stars_case-179799598640136588 :)
<Myrtti> oy
<Myrtti> gawds
<bigcalm> That looks nice
<Myrtti> zebus
<davmor2> Myrtti: http://www.maniacstore.com/Belkin-Essential-063-for-GALAXY-Nexus-Purple-Lightning-Paparazzi-Pink-F8M279qeC00.html this is better though
<ikonia> anyone know of any good UK shops/sites doing good deals on lower power "green" hard disks at the moment ?
<bigcalm> That reminds me that I need to replace the HDDs in my Father's and wife's laptops with SSDs
<davmor2> Myrtti: http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/522532589/Wallet_Leather_Case_Cover_with_Strap.html  there is a purple and orange one
<bigcalm> Weeeee. Referring to my wife is fun :)
<Myrtti> davmor2: I've got two purple cases already, but I want something Ubuntu specific, by the same people
<davmor2> Myrtti: you're no fun ;)
<Myrtti> davmor2: besides, I'm not going to order 100 of them
<Myrtti> no matter how nice the alibaba one looks like
<bigcalm> The Velcro on my neoprene sleeve has worn out. Might be time for a new case (or phone?)
<davmor2> Myrtti: it does look nice doesn't it :)
<MooDoo> just sharing the information about the raspeerry pi cluster indigo project, looks interesting :D
<mungbean> is there any news on the next rpi?
<popey> i hear rumour it may do power over ethernet would would be neat
<TheOpenSourcerer> Lots of peeps asked for that for RPi 1.0 ;-) Myself included.
<ikonia> popey: I read that had been dropped due to cost, they are trying to not change the cost
<ikonia> dropped as in dropped as a possibility
<popey> bummer
<popey> be nice if they choose a more modern arm rev
<ikonia> I thought that was going to get bumped ?
<popey> no idea
<penguin42> popey: They'll have fun if they change *anything* keeping it compatible with existing Pi installs, and one of the nice things about Pi is being able to take the images anywhere
<ikonia> penguin42: that's an interesting point,
<BigRedS> PoE would rather break the educational model unless it's an option alongside traditional power...
<popey> true
<popey> wonder if they will keep the form factor identical and just rev the speed / chip
<penguin42> BigRedS: Yeh it should be easy to make it either, although PoE injectors are pretty cheap
<MartijnVdS> not every PoE injector uses the standard though
<BigRedS> penguin42: yeah, but a PoE injector is still a weird thing to expect someone to get/have at home.
<penguin42> nod
<BigRedS> that said, I'm still surprised they used HDMI rather than VGA so perhaps I'm mischaracterising the sort of people they're aiming at
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: every TV from that last 5-10 years has HDMI
<penguin42> BigRedS: But these days most people have HDMI TVs even if they don't have it on monitors
<popey> i think they were of the opinion that hdmi is pretty common now
<BigRedS> yeah, it probably is
<penguin42> BigRedS: And schools being able to use it on TVs is probably a more important consideration than those who already have monitors
<BigRedS> penguin42: yeah, I expected VGA to be more common on TVs than HDMI, which is probably where I went most wrong :)
<BigRedS> I don't really pay attention to TVs
<BigRedS> Thinking about it, I guess consoles are all HDMI now, and probably have been for some time
<MartijnVdS> XBox360 and PS3 have HDMI, yes
<MartijnVdS> though they can do analog (except not everything, and not in HD)
<mungbean> anyone tried a pi over the analog out onto a tv?
<mungbean> fonts must be hard to read
<penguin42> mungbean: Well that's the way I was using computers in the 80s
<popey> ditto â»
<popey> 40x24
<penguin42> 80x25
<mungbean> mode 3? hardcore
<penguin42> Mode 0
<penguin42> I can't remember - there was a mode on the Arc that was 130 chars wasn't there?
<mungbean> 40 x 25 chars, 4 colours
<mungbean> ^^ mode 0 Bbeeeb
<mungbean> hmm
<mungbean> thats wrong. mode0 was the really hard to read one
<penguin42> yeh mode 0 was 80x25 b&w
<penguin42> mode 1 was 40x25 4 colours
<mungbean> so if you're using 80x25 on a pi,. the world hasn't moved on much
<dwatkins> Oracle's sign-up page is an utter travesty.
<penguin42> mungbean: If you want to push it you can try interleave but that's pretty crapy
<shauno> it's meant to be.  it's a harbinger.
<dwatkins> shauno: you're not wrong - the first page after signing up (which took several attempts due to the page's idiotic requirements) showed "System error. Please re-try your action. If you continue to get this error, please contact the Administrator."
 * dwatkins has at least learned that virtual installations of debian require more than 4 GB of disk space
<MartijnVdS> even minimal ones?
<dwatkins> MartijnVdS: it works fine until you use tasksel to install anything but the base system (i.e. desktop install fails)
<dwatkins> The error is just "something failed", but I'm pretty sure it simply didn't have enough room
<dwatkins> Where does dpkg even log this, though? It's not in /var/log
<popey>  /var/log/installer
<dwatkins> cheers popey, will tail -f it
<shauno> better question is why doesn't it fail gracefully .. you can't trust logs when the disk's full
<dwatkins> my point exactly, shauno
<Myrtti> ooh ooh
<Myrtti> I hadn't realised new version of Trigger can actually make the phone connect to a right bluetooth device
 * Myrtti goes on to a NFC frenzy
<shauno> I wonder how far under 4GB debian would go though.  I have an ubuntu install in <300Mb
<penguin42> I'd be surprised if you can't get Debian at least that small; I mean I've done it years ago
<penguin42> and I'm fairly sure a debootstrap world is pretty small
<mungbean> people are complaining there's a news blackout on a few people outside parliament in guy fawkes masks.
<mungbean> i'm pretty sure only 1% of demonstrations get reported
<dwatkins> Last time I was there, there were people camped out in front of parliament who had been there for weeks.
<AlanBell> would it be this news that was blacked out? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-24830123
<BigRedS> Are the Catholics getting uppity again?
<BigRedS> those aren't guy fawkes masks, are they?
<mungbean> what are they?
<mungbean> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guy_Fawkes_mask
<dwatkins> presumably the one from V for Vendetta
<mungbean> fawkes wasn't burned at teh stake though
<BigRedS> oh right, I thought it was invented for V from Vendetta
<mungbean> tbh it would have been more pleasant to do so than what happened to him
<TheOpenSourcerer> http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/a-raspberry-pi-build-cluster-for-ubuntu/x/5292412 Almost 15% of the way there already :-D
<MooDoo> yeah going to donate later this evening :D
<mungbean> somebody who isn't alan paid Â£150 for a beer with the alans?
<TheOpenSourcerer> lol
<TheOpenSourcerer> And we'd buy her a beer anyway ;-)
<MartijnVdS> I've already given the Alans beer 8-)
<TheOpenSourcerer> You have indeed. And we have already drunk it :-D
<mungbean> i gave alan my beer voucher from oggcamp once
<mungbean> that counts as buying alan a beer
<mungbean> i think he gave it to someone else
<bigcalm> Alans: where is there good pie in Farnham? My experience stops at the pub next to the station :D
<TheOpenSourcerer> Pie?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Hmmm.
<bigcalm> Pie
<mungbean> ye olde pie shoppe?
<jussi> ooh, pie!!
<bigcalm> If I can be assured of good pie, I will donate to the Pi, Pie & Pint level
<mungbean> when i win the lottery i don't play i will open a shop split into 3 sections.
<TheOpenSourcerer> I am not sure we do pies in Farnham... It's a bit posh for that.
<mungbean> section 1 airfix models, section 2 pie and ale, section 3 wool for the missis
<MartijnVdS> Farnham - Too Posh for Pie
 * jussi grumbles at Finnish "meat pies"
<MooDoo> pie - 3.14 flavoured
<mungbean> i just ate some pie
<TheOpenSourcerer> We do have the "Home of the Gourmet Burger" opposite our office - and they are rather lovely. :-D
<mungbean> but it was fruit pie covered in custard
<bigcalm> TheOpenSourcerer: I had the ribs the last time I was in there. It was rather large
<TheOpenSourcerer> Jolly dee.
<dwatkins> I used to work opposite a rather good curry house, you could smell them preparing sauces from about 11am each day - as you can imagine, we gave-in to temptation at least once a week and had lunch there.
<bigcalm> http://discworld.cuth.eu/dump/pre_rat_ribs.jpg
<bigcalm> That's what you missed out on by going to Italy :P
<MartijnVdS> rat ribs
<MartijnVdS> now there's something I wouldn't eat
<bigcalm> !rat
<lubotu3> The Real Ale Train. A yearly Ubuntu UK loco event to celebrate friends, trains and ale. 21st September 2013, Hampshire, UK: http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-uk/2320-real-ale-train/
<dwatkins> I was expecting one of Cut-me-own-throat Dibbler's pies, from the URL, bigcalm
<bigcalm> Humm, needs updating
<mungbean> not knowingly MartijnVdS
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: but these were pre-rats? :)
<MartijnVdS> uh
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm:
<TheOpenSourcerer> Ahh - CMOT Dibbler...
<bigcalm> The dates are available for next year's RAT. Are we ready to organise and choose a date? :) http://www.watercressline.co.uk/product.php/10/real-ale-train-r-a-t
<BigRedS> Oh, I should try to make this one
<bigcalm> Everybody should :D
<TheOpenSourcerer> All my hosts are named after Discworld characters. I did have Gaspode
<bigcalm> discworld is our network at home :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> I am typing this on hrun
<bigcalm> As chosen by Hayley!
<mungbean> mine are after WWII fighters
<TheOpenSourcerer> my desktop at home is lobsang
<TheOpenSourcerer> Wife's is Binky, kids' Twoflower, home server Vimes.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Netbook Magrat
<bigcalm> My last desktop was SNAFU. My current desktop is SNAFU2...
<popey> \o/ deep-thought
<popey> (and wopr)
<MartijnVdS> mine are just "martijn-desktop", "martijn-vaio", etc.
<mungbean> lol
<TheOpenSourcerer> Great imagination there MartijnVdS
<MartijnVdS> And my wifi network could be translated as "Airing out the bits"
<penguin42> popey: No 'earth' ?
<popey> not yet
<popey> maybe another one will
<bigcalm> An error occurred while processing your request.
<bigcalm> Reference #97.a102adc6.1383745485.b8cefeb
<bigcalm> Indeegogo fail :(
<TheOpenSourcerer> Oh :-(
<bigcalm> While registering for an account that is
<bigcalm> Your Amazon.co.uk order of "Genuine Official MOGA Pro..." has been dispatched
<bigcalm> That's an email subject that I like to see
<bigcalm> Sadly it's due to arrive while I'm out of town
<popey> when is GTA5 out?
<popey> WANT
<MartijnVdS> popey: PS3 or Xbox? :)
<popey> shut up MartijnVdS
<popey> saw that coming
<MartijnVdS> popey: too easy
<bigcalm> popey: I'm getting the above controller so that I can play GTA Vice City more comfortably on my tablet & phone.
<popey> I have an Xbox 360 controller
<bigcalm> popey: I've even managed to install the game on my TV stick, though not been able to play it due to lack of sensible interface
<MartijnVdS> popey: steam can use those, in "Big Picture" mode, never tried it though
<popey> indeed
<popey> i have in a few games
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: I use my xbox 360 controller with steam outside of big picture mode
<shauno> I have a db9 to usb adaptor for my konix :)
<bigcalm> Oh, I hadn't thought of trying my xbox controller with the tv stick. Oops :)
<diddledan> surely there are more appropriate systems to build for the pi than the pi itself - re: the indiegogo campaign for a pi build cluster
<bigcalm> Needs to be on the arm chip
<diddledan> really?
<shauno> needs to be interesting and geekworthy
<diddledan> that one I'll concede
<shauno> lets face it.  cross compiling is boring
 * bigcalm forgot about cross compiling
<bigcalm> I'd go with interesting and geeky
<diddledan> I need food
<penguin42> diddledan: Yeh I keep saying that, a couple of Wand boards (i.mx6 quad core Cortex-A9's) would probably send the Pis packing
<penguin42> (and are still ARMs)
<AlanBell> true enough
<AlanBell> however, nobody has done that
<shauno> I think it sounds fun.  it might not be the most sensible path from A to B, but who ever wanted to be sensible if/when they grow up
<jussi> the apc.io isnt a bad board also
<Myrtti> either
<penguin42> jussi: boring CPU
<jussi> penguin42: even the rock one?
<penguin42> jussi: 800MHz via ? Yes
<penguin42> jussi: Oh Rock, hmm still boring - 800MHz single core? A9
<shauno> for the price of two pi  (a tau?)
<MartijnVdS> Raspberry Tau?
<MartijnVdS> dual-core pi
<dwatkins> Two node cluster?
<diddledan> gotta love the geekiness of knowing the term tau in relation to pi
<shauno> today just isn't a productive day.  I'm replacing 'earthing' with 'earthling' in a bunch of electrical trainings
<diddledan> erm, shauno , is that the right way about?
<shauno> :D
<MartijnVdS> only if you're not grounded in reality
<diddledan> "ensure your pipes are well bonded with an earthling"
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: https://www.kernel.org/doc/Documentation/networking/bonding.txt
<AlanBell> shauno: I am tempted to add a tau perk :)
<diddledan> AlanBell: do it
<MartijnVdS> \o/ http://www.speedtest.net/my-result/a/640993693
<diddledan> MartijnVdS: is that over wireless?
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: 4G
<diddledan> yeah, that's what I meant ;-p
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: in the middle of Amsterdam
<diddledan> I totally love the idea of hamster jam
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: Hamster dance?
<penguin42> diddledan: I'm not sure the fur would be that good
<diddledan> penguin42: you'd take the fur off first
<diddledan> penguin42: and remove the boney bits
<penguin42> diddledan: Still, not much pectin in a hamster - unless you let it gorge on berrys before hand, but then that might be erm messy
<AlanBell> diddledan: shauno: by popular demand we now have a tau perk
<diddledan> yey
<popey> "popular"
<AlanBell> >1
 * AlanBell has low standards
<aquarius> popey, AlanBell, did you see slangasek's g+ comment about getting some time from calxeda or someone to build Ubuntu for raspi, rather than making a raspi build farm?
<popey> hah, no.
<AlanBell> everyone has a better idea :)
<aquarius> I think it was on soeone's reshare of a post about it
<aquarius> g+ will not let me show all comments by a person, irritatingly, which I want to do about five times a da
<AlanBell> "I am doing foo" "no!, don't do foo, do bar instead, which you are not doing and neither am I"
<AlanBell> but yeah, a calxeda box would be nice as a build farm
<aquarius> ahaha!
<aquarius> https://plus.google.com/u/0/+JorgeCastro/posts/eUqxKMm1TTx
<aquarius> I have no knowledge about whether that's good advice or not, but it's from slangasek who is pretty smart :)
<AlanBell> it is good advice, if you don't take into account all the parameters
<AlanBell> including the non-technical ones
<dwatkins> Clusters of multiple x86 nodes for running scientific etc. applications are rather expensive, so it makes sense to build them out of cheap Raspberry Pi machines to test MPI etc. code on.
<dwatkins> I'm not sure Ubuntu is the right distro for a cluster node, however, perhaps Ubuntu Server.
<AlanBell> which is the same thing
<popey> the calxeda box is arm
<popey> a monster multi cpu arm box
<dwatkins> ah ok, whatever is headless and has no GUI.
<AlanBell> yeah, calxeda was the thing martinbogo was working on
<dwatkins> I used to support SLES and RHEL clusters, the most difficult part is getting the automated installation stuff working seamlessly.
<dwatkins> We used bittorrent to distribute the disk image to each node, which was fun.
<shauno> it's a shame the pi doesn't do netbooting
<dwatkins> Can't you bootstrap it at-all with a custom SD card?
<AlanBell> it can with a small SD card to get it started
<AlanBell> you can also boot from USB that way (which won't be much better than SD card)
<dwatkins> at least if you can boot off the network you can manage the OS installations from a central server.
<AlanBell> or clone SD cards and shove em in
<MartijnVdS> but that's manual labour
<dwatkins> true, but that requires physical access of course.
<AlanBell> yup
<dwatkins> for Raspberry Pi based systems, I imagine manually swapping SD cards isn't much of an issue, bot for a 4096 cluster, automation is best ;)
<dwatkins> *node
<penguin42> AlanBell: If you can boot from USB then boot from a PC via a powered, switchable hub then you can individually reboot them
<AlanBell> or take the google approach and let them die
<dwatkins> let what die, AlanBell?
<AlanBell> google don't do much with dead units in their datacentre, they don't take them out if they stop working
<dwatkins> oh right, I was just thinking of reinstalling for whatever reason, but yes
<mgdm> automation is best always
 * mgdm automates all the things
<dwatkins> indeed, mgdm - if you have to do something more than once, it's probably worth automating.
<penguin42> AlanBell: I assume they do when they get to a certain density of dead ones, i.e. enough for someone to bother going over and dealing with
<MartijnVdS> "Hm, this data centre is down to 50%. Time to start replacing."
<AlanBell> penguin42: I think they turn off and scrap columns of them when they are obsolete
<AlanBell> and they put the UPS on the low voltage side of the transformer
<MartijnVdS> that way, you don't need to do weird things to match the phase
<AlanBell> UPS is full of weird
<shauno> I've a feeling they pay more attention to dead nodes than popular legend betrays.  they did that whole paper on failure modes/trends in disk drives, which betrays a bit more post-mortem than throwing cold racks out the window
<BigRedS> Most DC's UPS seems to be more an excercise in inefficiency than anything else
<BigRedS> I don't understand why every server must have a transformer and rectifier in it
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: AC*, right?
<penguin42> BigRedS: Well some places do 48v - but it's pretty rare
<mgdm> I've wondered the same
<shauno> 48V tends to be telcomms
<penguin42> shauno: Yeh but you can get some servers with 48v PSUs
<AlanBell> lets take this 12v and ramp it up to 240v and make it AC and line up the phases so that we can transform it back to 12v
<penguin42> problem is 1) it's not very common 2) I think it's more pricey 3) I'm scared of high current stuff all over 4) high current DC is supposedly a higher fire risk
<shauno> most places don't do DC because it's a lot less efficient than it sounds.  low DC over a long run gives you substantial voltage drops due to resistance
<mgdm> I heard of someone (Facebook, I think?) doing the AC->DC conversion in the rack
<BigRedS> MartijnVdS: DC as in Datacentres :)
<mgdm> to get around that
<penguin42> yeh per rack seems reasonable
<BigRedS> shauno: there's not that much volt drop in the height of a rack
<MartijnVdS> Voltage drop doesn't depend on altitude ;)
<BigRedS> but it's a drop!
<shauno> if you've only got a rack to worry about, you're probably not nickle&diming your power consumption :p
<BigRedS> however much you've got it's probably in racks
<BigRedS> and plugging a rack into AC rather than a rack full of machines would seem to make more sense
<BigRedS> but for the fact that servers expect 240V AC in
<penguin42> BigRedS: You mean in half the height of a rack....
<penguin42> shauno: Opposite, if you've got a rack to worry about you're worried about total power input and cooling; it kind of gets scary when you've got say 10kW+ going into one
<BigRedS> penguin42: yeah, better, but that's another thing people seem to like getting wrong about racks
<BigRedS> not thinking about where in the rack to put them. I used to keep seeing a rack where the top half is patch panels and the bottom half is switches which made no sense to me
<shauno> sticking a battery in each rack seems like it'd only suit certain loads too
<penguin42> BigRedS: Ahem, yes I once designed a set like that - was a really bad decision - all the cables hang over your switches
<penguin42> shauno: Why?
<shauno> it kinda assumes your load is the same across every rack
<shauno> else your compute nodes exhaust the battery long before the network core, and you've got a nice shiney network supporting nothing
<penguin42> shauno: assuming your networking is in the same rack, anyway most DC UPSs are only designed to last 5mins on the laughable hope the generator will start in that time or that it was only a power blip
<shauno> heh, in the hope that someone tested the genny in the last 6 months ..
<penguin42> they always find impressive ways to fail
<mgdm> I heard of one where they tested it every 3mo
<mgdm> but forgot to buy fuel for it
<mgdm> so when it was required, it lasted about 3 minutes
<shauno> I Think the main catch is that there's no one answer that suits everyone.  it's neat that facebook, google, etc are coming up with some fresh ideas.  but just because something works at google's scale, doesn't mean it'd work at yours
<penguin42> I used one DC where there was a breaker before the UPS; a lightning strike kicked the breaker so the UPS started taking it rather than the mains, but since the power was still going in the generator didn't bother to start
<penguin42> shauno: And there are solutions for everyone; big UPSs that sit in the corner, rack scale ones, even PSU shaped ones you can replace PSUs in some servers with
<shauno> I mean, it's not the end of the world if google's datacenter goes down.  they have spare datacenters.  I don't  lol
<penguin42> nod
<penguin42> http://www.supermicro.nl/products/nfo/BBP.cfm  do look neat
<shauno> amazon still stick one big ups on the end of each row.  and microsoft are still going for the pod/container scheme that sun got bored of
<penguin42> shauno: Anyway, it's a lot easier to leave the big data centre guys to the guys building data centres and just buy a cage in one
<diddledan> I want a cage
<diddledan> how much do they cost? /me checks his pocket change
<diddledan> I've got about 37p
<penguin42> they sometimes will give them to you if you buy enough rack/power
<diddledan> how much for a rack then?
<diddledan> I've still got about 37p
<penguin42> you might get a micron of space in the corner and a slightly drained AAA battery worth of power
<MartijnVdS> oh and 300 baud
<diddledan> icuk offer quarter-racks for 246/mo
<diddledan> 236**
<diddledan> with 2amperages
<mungbean> did anyone listen to the bletchely prog on radio 4?
<MartijnVdS> no, but I get_iplayered it
<MartijnVdS> *enqueue*
<penguin42> diddledan: Sigh, 2amp for 10U - giggle
<mungbean> its 3hrs long
<BigRedS> mgdm: the problem with backup diesel, though, is that it degrades with time. So you don't really want to keep the tank brimmed for ages without using it, either
<diddledan> their 1U comes with 0.4amps
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: that's why you do test runs regularly, right
<penguin42> diddledan: Slightly better, but you would have to be careful
<BigRedS> MartijnVdS: that's partly why *we* do, but it's also a secondary problem for people who don't
<shauno> 96W? that's .. enough that you won't get billed for standby current when the machine's off
<penguin42> shauno: You can get a single socket x86 in 96W if you're careful
<diddledan> it's pushing it
<diddledan> really want at least 150W
<diddledan> that's IMO
<penguin42> yeh and you could easily take 250-500W in 1U
<diddledan> stick a meaty gpu for opencl and you're way over
<diddledan> speaky de which. I need to get a gaming machine running - I like having three screens running off my macbook pro tho
<penguin42> diddledan: Well you can get 4 socket x86 in 1U, at say 130W peak/socket and that's prior to any GPU or the like
<shauno> on the other hand, that's half of Alan's cluster ;)
<diddledan> shauno: sweet. stick a bank of rpi in there then
<penguin42> shauno: Is Alan's whole cluster that high?
<diddledan> penguin42: if you turn the shelf on it's side it will be :-p
<penguin42> diddledan: ///that high current
<diddledan> hehe
<diddledan> I refer you to my previous statement :-p
<shauno> I really have no idea.  I seem to get a different answer for current every time I look
<diddledan> we all know electricity is like water (as they teach us in school) so if you make it downhill then the current will be higher at the lower end
<diddledan> "think of a wire like a pipe carrying water"
<diddledan> I need to put in an electricity header tank
<penguin42> shauno: Hmm pi.org says 5v at 700ma, so what's that 3.5W each
<bigcalm> directhex: latest HB worth getting? I see none of it is Linux though
<diddledan> don't you hate when someone leaves a socket turned on so all the electricity starts running out all over the floor?
<shauno> bigcalm: I've stopped buying them if they don't have a decent number on my platform.  it's the only way I could sooth the addiction
<bigcalm> :)
<diddledan> HB? hairy ....?
<diddledan> barmaid
<diddledan> oh humble
<directhex> bigcalm, great value for windows users
<diddledan> gotcha
<diddledan> yeah if you're a windowite it's great
<bigcalm> The video doesn't tell you anything about the games sadly
<diddledan> bigcalm: I think the expectation is that you'll have heard of them beforehand
<diddledan> AAA titles mean everyone and his dog obviously knows what they are
<diddledan> </sarcasm>
<diddledan> I personally have no clue
<shauno> we've noticed ;)
<diddledan> in other news, however, worms series is on the weekly sale
<diddledan> shauno: you noticed me? sweet!
 * diddledan puts some lippy on
<shauno> or if you're a mac user .. "worms crazy golf is on the weekly sale"
<diddledan> yeah. hunble seem to have lost their way in releasing windows-only titles
<diddledan> humble*
<diddledan> I need a website wireframing app for mac or windows or linux or both mac and windows or all three
<shauno> my personal position atm; save your pennies for the steam thanksgiving sale :)
<bigcalm> diddledan: pencil in firefox
<bigcalm> I wish the Indiegogo site wasn't so slow. I'd be able to contribute if the site were to respond
<daftykins> d'aww
<bigcalm> At least I was able to register for an account this time
<bigcalm> Huh, had to reload the site, making a little progress
<daftykins> some quirky browser cache lying dormant, or first time you've been there?
<bigcalm> 1st time
<bigcalm> The site is full of broken images. I think they have problems
<daftykins> erk
<bigcalm> Oooo, didn't notice this before: This campaign will receive all funds raised even if it does not reach its goal
<daftykins> what project is this?
<bigcalm> The only project that matters to people in this channel :P
<bigcalm> http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/a-raspberry-pi-build-cluster-for-ubuntu/x/5305863
<penguin42> popey: So they've got you down for destructive testing expert then?
<popey> or "clumsy oaf
<popey> yes
<penguin42> popey: Yeh but it takes an expert to dislodge a soldered chip
<popey> its really twisted
<popey> you can't really tell in the pic
<penguin42> popey: is it the type of remote that gets activated by pressing it ?
<popey> uhm eh?
<penguin42> popey: I can't actually tell what that thing is
<popey> its a remote control dongle
<popey> i.e. the remote is in your hand, its the receiver
<penguin42> oh I see, that's just the receiver?
<popey> ya
<popey> which makes the remote useless
<penguin42> do you think it got knocked or something while in the socket to bend it?  IMHO bending is more likely to cause a problem
<penguin42> than dropping
<popey> no, i dropped the computer
<penguin42> ah!
<popey> it landed on the usb stick
<popey> with the weight of the computer behind it
<penguin42> oh that makes a lot more sense
<popey> the computer being an acer aspire revo
<popey> which I was retrieving from behind the telly
<popey> badly
<penguin42> popey: I like the track along the top
<czajkowski> nice video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FkjMLvWt2ME#t=39    and well done to the Fedora community
<popey> antenna
<MartijnVdS> http://www.micrela.nl/app/
<ali1234> MartijnVdS: i don't understand how to answer "how many years have you spent learning english?"
<ali1234> "all of them"
<ali1234> but the maximum possible answer is 25
<ali1234> somehow i managed to get the spinbox to display "NaN" - that will do
<mgdm> heh
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: did you select English on the first page?
<mgdm> use the web developer tools to mess with the form
<ali1234> yes
<mgdm> oh, it's Flash
<MartijnVdS> they're Groningen university researchers
<MartijnVdS> trying to figure out how mutually intelligible languages are
<AlanBell> woot, another pi and a pie and a pint perk taken :)
<penguin42> AlanBell: You're going to have to find really excellent Pies for the people who paid up for that
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dbnaSjhn-18
<AlanBell> penguin42: actually mostly burgers where I was planning to take them, but rather fancy ones http://www.mulberryfarnham.co.uk/food.aspx
<penguin42> AlanBell: Now hang on, those aren't Pies
<bigcalm> AlanBell: Least amount of travel required by you :P
<MartijnVdS> False promises!
<AlanBell> bigcalm: yeah :)
<AlanBell> I might have a hunt about for a more pie filled place
<MartijnVdS> just bake one.. or have your wife/kids bake one
<AlanBell> bake kids in a pie . . . hmm
<bigcalm> AlanBell: http://www.sweeneyandtodd.co.uk/ - if it's not too far away?
<ali1234> AlanBell: "pie shop farnham" in google, this is the top hit: http://thesandrock.com/
<ali1234> award winning pies, apparently
<bigcalm> When there with Dave2 and christel. Good pies :D
<AlanBell> ooh, the sandrock, been there many many times (it is theopensourcerer's local pub)
<AlanBell> not had a pie there, but that is absolutely an option
<bigcalm> Numbers are creeping up. Yay
<bigcalm> As you'll get the money no matter what (minus their fee), what can you do with Â£626?
<AlanBell> they are indeed, thanks bigcalm :)
<AlanBell> we can get several pis, and we can throw more money at it if we want to
<bigcalm> Quick, somebody donate Â£40
<AlanBell> but I think we will probably meet the total by christmas
<bigcalm> Meep
<bigcalm> Xmas is close
<AlanBell> 49 days left
<Myrtti> I do like pie
<Myrtti> but I don't know if I can justify that expensive pie
<mungbean> giffgaff flogging phones now
<Myrtti> really?
<GentileBen> Myrtti how are you finding your N5?
<GentileBen> I've been all up in your grill about the N5 the last few days, and you don't respond.
<Myrtti> love it
<GentileBen> I've found the battery life to be pretty appaling.
<Myrtti> sorry, I do have employment nowadays :-P
<GentileBen> *appalling
<GentileBen> I took the SIM out of my N4 and it's on 80% after 21 hours...
<GentileBen> So I'm now 100% sure it's location services etc. which are killing my N5's battery.
<GentileBen> After 21.5 hours, it's on 49%....and I've barely used it.
<GentileBen> I've had maybe 10 minutes of screen on time today...
<GentileBen> :[
<mungbean> http://community.giffgaff.com/t5/Blog/The-first-22-giffgaff-phone-range/ba-p/10417127
<mgdm> this made me laugh  more than is reasonable http://i.imgur.com/D5gWwBL.gif
<ali1234> poonikins!
<MartijnVdS> mgdm: what...? what?
<ali1234> mgdm: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rt4p9A-U4Ko
<mgdm> MartijnVdS: I have no idea either
<mgdm> ali1234: uhmm
 * MartijnVdS has fresh sugru!
<mungbean> i need to put more sugru on my wellie boots
<mungbean> the other side has split
<mungbean> soon they will be sugru boots
<mungbean> i also put some on the shower handle to make it grippy
<MartijnVdS> I've put some on my teapot to make it not scratch my wooden table
<mgdm> ali1234: the flying motorbike is brilliant
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: Doesn't the temp of the tea soften it again?
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: no, it's stable up to oven temps
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: in the 180Â° range
<penguin42> ah
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: I've also replaced the lost rubber feet of my laptop with Sugru ones
<Myrtti> oh man
<Myrtti> I'm suffocating into mmy own laughter
<Myrtti> oh dear
<Myrtti> ahhhh. ali1234, thank you
<mungbean> whats that poonikins game?
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: a h4x0red gta4
<mungbean> reallly different from how i remember gta3
<ali1234> i think it's actually a game from the driver series
<ali1234> based ont he title of the other vid
<ali1234> definitely hacked anyway
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: but the voice is Niko Bellic from GTA 4
<ali1234> well, there you go then... never played that one
<mungbean> the cars are not smooth like gta though, maybe because a horse is driving
<ali1234> yeah there's a speedhack going on too
<mungbean> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1U8oarvfiO8
<mungbean> x-wing going down the street
<mungbean> poonikins is in it too
<mungbean> there's an animals one with elephant and giraffe driving a car
<airurando> good evening.
<airurando> has anyone alink for the video stream?
<airurando> wrong channel, sorry
<SuperMatt> just did my first hlpout!
<directhex> why do people spend so much time on modding GTA4 to make it be Saint's Row?
<MartijnVdS> directhex: because they're poor and can't afford to buy both?
<AlanBell> airurando: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZfD_hCi74w&feature=youtu.be
<SuperMatt> oh man, session two starting now
<SuperMatt> people are digging helpouts
<AlanBell> cool SuperMatt :)
<SuperMatt> oh, number two is a no show
<SuperMatt> I don't know how long to give someone before cancelling on them
<SuperMatt> holy... I have a queue of people right now
<mungbean> do u get paid?
<airurando> thanks AlanBell
<SuperMatt> all right, I have 5 helpouts in the pipeline
<SuperMatt> done two already
<MooDoo> yay just waiting for my helpout url
<Myrtti> so
<MooDoo> so what?
<Myrtti> what's the current recommended magic spell I need to do to get Ubuntu Touch on this phone?
<MooDoo> expeliamus?
<Myrtti> phablet-flash ubuntu-system something something?
<popey> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Install Myrtti
<popey> but yes, phablet-flash ubuntu-system -b -d mako
<Myrtti> popey: yeah I'm reading that
<Myrtti> -d mako?
<Myrtti> maguro
<popey> oh sorry
<popey> yes
<Myrtti> this is scary
<popey> â»
<ali1234> popey: how did you build glibc on your pi? just get the dsc and dpkg-buildpackage it?
<penguin42> ali1234: Generally you should be able to build any package by getting it's source (apt-get source) installing build-dep (apt-get build-dep) and then building with dpkg-buildpackage
<ali1234> yeah i know. i want to know how popey did it so i can try to do the same thing in qemu to compare the speed
<penguin42> ali1234: Are you running qemu user or system emulation?
<ali1234> system, with a raspbian image
<ali1234> i suspect it will still take less than 11 hours :)
<penguin42> nod, I'm betting it's probably a 20th or so of the speed of your host machine, so it might not be that wonderful
<ali1234> there will be wins on disk speed though
<penguin42> yeh
<ali1234> even at a 20th it's still probably faster than the Pi CPU
<ali1234> but we'll see...
<penguin42> ali1234: Maybe - it might be a bit close; it's only a simplish emulator
<Myrtti> jebus that was scary
<penguin42> ali1234: http://sentryytech.blogspot.co.uk/2013/02/faster-compiling-on-emulated-raspberry.html   although note that bogomips is really an entirely stupid way of measuring emulator perf
<penguin42> Myrtti: What was?
<SuperMatt> oh my gosh, that was absolutely amazing
<SuperMatt> helpouts++
<ali1234> penguin42: step A from that is what i'm doing now... then i'll try step B
<diddledan> SuperMatt:?
<penguin42> SuperMatt: is this video/audio ?
<SuperMatt> yup
<SuperMatt> I've done three helpouts already today
<diddledan> what did you help with?
<Myrtti> flashing my old Galaxy Nexus with Ubuntu Touch
<diddledan> Myrtti: I might do that too
<Myrtti> and then trying to find out if the data is disabled while roaming
<diddledan> not the roaming bit
<diddledan> I took delivery of shiny yesterday. a new nexus5 - I like the new kitkat taste
<SuperMatt> first was problems with grub, second was how to run mupen64, and third was how to set up a virtual host with wsgi for django
<MooDoo> SuperMatt: well thats not basic lol
<SuperMatt> I know!
<SuperMatt> but it was still quite fun
<diddledan> penguin42: in relation to that article - plan b - I fail to see how architectural chroot can be any different in speed compared to full-on qemuing
<MooDoo> good :D
<diddledan> you still need to emulate the cpu whichever way you do it
<ali1234> diddledan: when you use qemu like that, all library calls are made to native libs
<ali1234> so you run an arm gcc binary, and qemu relinks it to x86 libc
<ali1234> not sure how that works when you're inside a chroot tbh
<penguin42> diddledan: Because you don't need to emulate the MMU and the OS kernel, all the sys calls get done on the x86 side
<diddledan> weird
<diddledan> really funky stuff then
<penguin42> diddledan: qemu user land emulation turns a sys_write into an x86 sys_write and the x86 worries about filesystems etc
<diddledan> clever
<ali1234> yeah, kernel is still x86, even inside the chroot
<diddledan> I suppose qemu-user marshalls the differences between little and big-endienness
<ali1234> maybe, but nothing uses BE
<penguin42> diddledan: It does but ARM is typically little anyway
<diddledan> aah
 * diddledan petpet arm
<ali1234> some weird mips devices, that's about it
<penguin42> ali1234: actually it's more than that, ARM can do big - often does, PPC, the mainframes and some other stuff
<ali1234> motorola 68000 was BE
<ali1234> that's the last time i saw it anywhere
 * penguin42 throws one of his Sun 3/60's at ali1234 and goes to take a shower
<ali1234> "it's called a 3/60 cos when you see it you do a 3/60 and then walk away"
<diddledan> lol
<ali1234> i think im gonna skip directly to plan B
<SuperMatt> anyone know of a good opensource pastebin alternative
<ali1234> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/3909251/open-source-pastebin
<AlanBell> there are one or two in the repositories
<AlanBell> "good" depends on your criteria
<SuperMatt> what's in the repos?
<AlanBell> apt-cache search pastebin
<AlanBell> !info pnopaste
<lubotu3> pnopaste (source: pnopaste): Pastebin with syntax highlighting. In component universe, is optional. Version 1.4-5 (quantal), package size 17 kB, installed size 127 kB
<SuperMatt> I'll take a look at that, thanks
<ali1234> apparently bash from raspbian has instructions qemu can't handle
<AlanBell> maybe that is the only one SuperMatt, I thought there were several but the other things appear to be pasting in tools
<SuperMatt> might just write my own
<popey> ali1234: i grabbed the 9.04 jaunty glibc and "debuild -uc -us"
<popey> after apt-getting the build-dep
<ali1234> hmm ok. i'm going to try with 13.10 glibc, because i'm lazy
<ali1234> after i've fixed qemu that is
<penguin42> what's it doing to you?
<popey> i could probably grab the 13.10 glibc and build that too
<popey> we should start them at the same time â»
<popey> mine will be building at 700Mhz on an SD card though â»
<ali1234> penguin42: it refuses to run the pi binaries basically
<ali1234> invalid instruction exception
<ali1234> ah there we go, fixed it
<penguin42> what was up with it?
<ali1234> the latest raspi image has this weird ld.so.preload which qemu doesn't like
<ali1234> it was actually written in the first set of instructions i was looking at, but i didn't see it as they didn't tell the error you'd get if you skipped that part
 * popey is ready to start "time debuild -uc -us" on his pi with eglibc-2.17
<penguin42> ali1234: you might want a export DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS='parallel=10'  (for a 4 core machine) :-)
<ali1234> ok :)
<popey> haha
<ali1234> i;m currently trying to install build deps
<AlanBell> cheating!
<ali1234> need a deb-src line
<penguin42> just because your pi only has one core
<ali1234> why didn't they include it?
<penguin42> ali1234: deb-src http://gb.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu trusty restricted multiverse universe main
<ali1234> nope
<penguin42> ali1234: You might want to use something older than trusty
<ali1234> actually, maybe
<ali1234> hmm, /dev/pts not mounted... better fix that
<ali1234> E: Build-Depends dependency for eglibc cannot be satisfied because candidate version of package g++-4.7 can't satisfy version requirements
<penguin42> ali1234: Hmm so what chroot have you got installed?
<ali1234> raspbian 2013-09-25
<penguin42> ah well then I assume you've got to match the deb-src to that
<ali1234> yeah
<ali1234> but i want to build glibc from ubuntu, since that's the point
<ali1234> although for a speed test i guess it does not matter
<popey> ahh
<popey> i wont be able to build that either
<penguin42> popey: What you building?
<popey> same
<popey> eglibc 2.17 on 9.4
<popey> and I wont have gcc++-4.7
<ali1234> so looks like you'll be doing 12.04 first AlanBell, or something like that anyway, at least the toolchain
<penguin42> ali1234: There are some boot strapping instructions somewhere - and anyway you can ignore the build-dep and hope for the best
<ali1234> i'll try precise...
<ali1234> nope, needs 4.6-multilib
<AlanBell> ali1234: ok
<AlanBell> so can saucy be build from precise?
<ali1234> should be able to yeah
<ali1234> buy precise can't be built from raspbian - not without hackery for the bootstrap anyway
<ali1234> really we should be building gcc in bootstrap mode first anyway :)
<AlanBell> oh, do we have to start with jaunty and move up from there?
<ali1234> i dunno, i'm not an expert in this stuff
<penguin42> the linaro guys should have some bootstrapping instructions
<ali1234> what's it called? oldrelease? old-releases?
<popey> alan@deep-thought:~/saucy/eglibc-2.17$ cat /etc/apt/sources.list
<popey> deb http://old-releases.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ jaunty main restricted
<popey> deb-src http://old-releases.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ jaunty main restricted
<popey> I would start with raspian, use wheezy to make precise
<popey> and then use that to build up from there
<AlanBell> 23:16 < ali1234> buy precise can't be built from raspbian - not without hackery for the bootstrap anyway
<popey> why?
<ali1234> the build-deps are all wrong
<popey> oh i see
<penguin42> ali1234: Have you tried ignoring them?
<ali1234> not yet
<popey> jaunty is way to old to start from
<ali1234> let's just ignore build deps then :)
<ali1234> precise might work better - it is at least the sme general version of gcc (4.6)
<ali1234> eglibc 2.15-0ubuntu10
<ali1234> debuild: command not found
<ali1234> devscripts really has a lot of silly dependencies
<penguin42> ali1234: Yeh but you just install the packages and you're done
<ali1234> it started up exim4...
<penguin42> ali1234: Yeh that's just to send the notification to the NSA
<popey> heh
<Azelphur> My BTC value just topped $30k \o/
 * Azelphur awaits 6 digits
<ali1234> according to what exchange?
<Azelphur> ali1234: gox, bitstamp is only $400 off though.
<ali1234> hmm... it's getting warm in here
#ubuntu-uk 2013-11-07
<ali1234> i wish these looooong builds had a progress bar or something
<ali1234> like cmake :)
<penguin42> ali1234: Problem is it's very programmatic - there's no way in std make of knowing how many more things you have to build
<ali1234> it seems to be going fairly fast at least
<penguin42> ali1234: Is it keeping multiple cores busy?
<ali1234> sort of... there's around 10 cc processes but each one only seems to get about 20%
<ali1234> maybe they are starting and stopping too fast for top to be accurate
<penguin42> yeh
<emre_ozdn> hi
<emre_ozdn> help me !
<daftykins> D:
<daftykins> emre_ozdn: you need to ask a question usually
<emre_ozdn> dpkg: error: `/var/lib/dpkg/status' An error occurred while trying to read the package information file: No such file or directory
<penguin42> does that file exist?
<emre_ozdn> that file is removed
<ali1234> it seems to be compiling languages or codepages or something... i think it's nearly done...
<ali1234> now it seems to have started over... doh
<popey> ali1234: what exactly are you building?
<ali1234> eglibc 2.15 from precise
<ali1234> -mfloat-abi=softfp
<ali1234> hmmmm
<ali1234> i think it is now building an armel version
<popey> Package: libc6-armel
<popey> Architecture: armhf
<popey> Description: Embedded GNU C Library: ARM softfp shared libraries for armhf
<penguin42> ali1234: The debian/control file will list all the debs it should produce
<ali1234> yeah... i don't think i'm building that
<ali1234> let's see
<popey> ali1234: what you building in? wheezy?
<ali1234> raspbian, so yeah i guess
<ali1234> it's building: http://paste.ubuntu.com/6373851/
<ali1234> i guess
<penguin42> hmm no not all those archs
<ali1234> no, i suppose not
<popey> ali1234: what did you do for missing g++-4.6-multilib ?
<ali1234> nothing and debuild with -d
<ali1234> i installed as many deps as possible manually
<popey> ah
<ali1234> if we're going to benchmark we should use a package that isn't crazy
<ali1234> or else just pick something from raspbian that should work easily
<popey> yeah
<ali1234> getting this to work is going to be fun
<ali1234> build-tree/armhf-armel/wctype/stamp.oT - armhf *and* armel?
<popey> how about something like zlib or emacs?
<ali1234> zlib takes about 8 seconds to compile
<popey> yeah, need something chunky
<popey> gcc â»
<ali1234> potentialy crazy due it building itself to build itself...
<ali1234> dunno if it actually does that
<popey> nah
<ali1234> libSDL might be a good candidate
<popey> yeah, probably better than libc
<ali1234> it should be relatively tested on pi, takes a while to build, and isn't crazy... and it uses cmake in recent versions (maybe not packaged though)
 * penguin42 suggests coreutils
<popey> that wont take long
<popey> 11MB of source
<popey> long enough on pi â»
<popey> yeah, thats probably better, wont have lots of deps
<popey> only needed 10 above what I already had here
<penguin42> anyway, bed
<ali1234> coreutils from raspbian on raspbian then?
<popey> yes
<popey> coreutils-8.13
<popey> haha, ran out of space on my pi
<ali1234> oops
<popey> didn't resize the partition up from 2.5GB to 32GB
 * popey rm's two copies of eglibc
<ali1234> i bind-mounted a directory from outside the chroot for compiling
 * popey leaves it running
<ali1234> i don't think i'll see much benefit from multicore... it seems to be spending most time on configure
<ali1234> hmm... qemu froze. known bug apparently. using the linaro-qemu is supposed to fix it
<popey> rpi chugging along slowly
<popey> doing tests
<popey> real	4m43.231s
<popey> (i7 building saucy coreutils natively)
<ali1234> well i got past where it froze before
<ali1234> running configure takes like 15 minutes
<ali1234> probably because all the process start/stop. it compiles a million tiny programs and then runs them
<popey> the tests take quite a while too
<popey> pi has nearly finished
<ali1234> omg it's running another configure script
<ali1234> checking all the same stuff again
<ali1234> it can't be optimal to check that the system supports pipes every single time you build this
<popey> has to build on a buildd dunnit
<popey> where it's a clean room
<ali1234> so what?
<ali1234> when was the last time a linux system didn't support pipes?
<ali1234> if OS==linux then skip_99%_of_the_checks
<popey> heh
<popey> Does Hurd support pipes? â»
<ali1234> i dunno but i'm guessing it either does or it doesn't and that isn't going to change
<ali1234> there should be a thing like ccache, but for configure
<ali1234> i know there's configure.cache, but why not make it system-wide?
<ali1234> i suppose you could make the argument that some earlier package build broke pipes or something
<popey> i didnt realise quite how much coreutils had in it
<ali1234> pretty much everything that isn't built in to bash
<ali1234> actually it probably includes bash
<popey> FUUUU!
<popey> finished
<popey> but for some reason I have a screen full of y
<popey> not the time it finished at
<popey> I may have typed "yes" in the wrong terminal â»
<ali1234> still chewing through configure here
<popey> so finished at ~03:30
<popey> so ~1.5 hours
 * popey runs again after cleaning
<popey> bed
<ali1234> ....and it hung on msgmerge again
<ali1234> screw this, forget qemu, it sucks
<MooDoo> morning all
<shauno> o/
<MooDoo> shauno: thought I was the only mad one up this time of the morning
<shauno> I've been in the office since 6 :(
<MooDoo> 6:30 for me, you finish early?
<shauno> yeah, that's the upswing .. going home at 2pm feels like cheating :)
<mungbean> why were those guys up at 3am? crazies
<MooDoo> yeah I leave at 3:30, unless I take lunch then I can go at 3
<MooDoo> mungbean: which guys?
<mungbean> al1 and p0p93y
<mungbean> dont wanna hlight them cos they are sleeping now i hope
 * mungbean is feeding babby and changing nappies
<MooDoo> saw them on the podcast show last night, didn't know they were up at 3 lol
<MooDoo> mungbean: luckily my two were still in bed when I left for work...
<mungbean> i gave wifey a lie in \o/
<mungbean> "lie in" until 7.40
<mungbean> twitter is valued at Â£11bn LOL
<mungbean> Â£50 per "user account"
<ali1234> i'm still up
<ali1234> thinking about breakfast
<MooDoo> ali1234: what you been doing that's kept you up all night?  still with the compiling on the pi?
<ali1234> no, i've given up on that
<ali1234> i've been looking at xterm actually
<MooDoo> wow don't you ever sleep ;)
<ali1234> did you know if you run xterm -t and then type, it segfaults?
<ali1234> and it's probably been this way for years
<MooDoo> I did not know that.
<diplo> Morning allMorning all
<diplo> oops
<MooDoo> morning diplo morning diplo ;)
<diplo> heh
<diplo> Shows how much typing I did on here yesterday, I up arrowed once by mistake :)
<MooDoo> lol
<shauno> xterm -t seems to work here, but I'm not entirely sure what it's trying to do
<shauno> it just brings the uglies; http://cl.ly/image/3p3C2E0s2o2N
<MartijnVdS> tektronix.. eek
<shauno> I realise OSX doesn't actually help you at all, but at least it means XTerm(281) probably isn't fundamentally b0rken
<ali1234> well, ubuntu has 278
<ali1234> so maybe they fixed it
<shauno> not sure I expected OSX to have a newer version.  that seems backwards
<AlanBell> might be a termcap bug
<MartijnVdS> termcap bugs shouldn't crash the program
<AlanBell> true
<mungbean> xterm -t works for me
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: even if you start typing in it?
<mungbean> yesh
<MartijnVdS> are you a wizard?
<MartijnVdS> (which Ubuntu version)
<mungbean> yes, i have the certificate to prove it
<mungbean> by the reddit definition
<mungbean> i'm on elementary which is 12.04.3 ubuntu
<mungbean> i'll try on a vm
<mungbean> works on 12.04.3 VM
<mungbean> segfaults on 13.10
<mungbean> ali1234: ^^
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<MartijnVdS> \o bigcalm
<MooDoo> mornign mornign
<SuperMatt> all right fellows, I am happy now to share http://www.ubuntu-helpouts.org
<SuperMatt> I did my first new helpouts last night, and it was great fun
<MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: were people helped?
<MooDoo> And i'm just waiting for my helpout invite....silly slow google.
<SuperMatt> yes they were!
<ali1234> can i sign up and ask really difficult questions?
<SuperMatt> if you like
<MooDoo> ali1234: it's mainly for beginners....you're totally over qualified ;)
<SuperMatt> I might not be able to answer them ;)
<TheOpenSourcerer> You have to love the Internet :-DÂ 
<TheOpenSourcerer> PTFE (Teflon) "... is the only known surface to which a *gecko* cannot stick."Â 
<TheOpenSourcerer> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polytetrafluoroethylene
<ali1234> your channel should be ## probably, assuming you're not official
<SuperMatt> no, we're not official
<MooDoo> ali1234: yeah we reaslised that after it was created :(
<MooDoo> my fault....
<SuperMatt> we can move to ##
<shauno> TheOpenSourcerer: dare we ask what you were googling to arrive at that?
<TheOpenSourcerer> shauno: A mate posted it on FB
<ali1234> http://prospect.rsc.org/blogs/cw/2013/04/02/how-geckos-can-beat-non-stick/
<ali1234> i googled "what surfaces can't a gecko stick to?" and that was the top result
<ali1234> appears to contradict wikipedia
<TheOpenSourcerer> Like I said - You really have to love the Internet sometimes...
<TheOpenSourcerer> I also discovered yesterday that there is a website dedicated to images of single women laughing with a plate or bowl of salad.
<bigcalm> Rule #34
<TheOpenSourcerer> http://womenlaughingalonewithsalad.tumblr.com/
<shauno> I kinda want a gecko now.  I assume you can buy harnesses for them on etsy
<SuperMatt> ali1234: we've changed channel
<popey> SuperMatt: you're in danger of flouting the trademark policy
<SuperMatt> popey: in what way? I'm happy to change things to ensure I don't
<popey> just re-reading it to check â»
<SuperMatt> cool thanks
<SuperMatt> I wanna work with Canonical on this
<popey> why do you recommend virtualbox?
<SuperMatt> just to get started
<ali1234> i kinda want to go on random helpouts and say "hello, i'd like an argument please"
<SuperMatt> without destroying anything ;)
<MartijnVdS> popey: vbox work with just one apt-get install, virtd + kvm is a lot harder to get running quickly
<popey> 5 mins or the full half hour?
<MooDoo> ali1234: come to mine, i'll reply with,  is this a 4 min one of fll half hout
<MooDoo> oh damn you popey
<popey> SuperMatt: who is the site aimed at
<MooDoo> beginners and people interesting moving to or learning ubuntu
<SuperMatt> absolute beginners, mostly
<popey> beginners who have already got ubuntu or people who have not
<SuperMatt> well, I'm happy to help with either
<SuperMatt> if they've already installed it, they can skip the virtualbox step
<MooDoo> and i'll deal with people wanting to move to it, or give it a go.
<SuperMatt> I should make not of that
<popey> it just seems confusing for the getting started page to mention virtualbox
<MooDoo> or just see what it's like.
<SuperMatt> sure
<SuperMatt> well content like that will change.
<SuperMatt> I needed some resourse for the folks at google to accept me
<popey> oh?
<SuperMatt> if it turns out to be something people don't connect with, I'll change it
<SuperMatt> yup, they strongly suggest you have a well populated website so that people can get a feel of how qualified you are
<mungbean> in which case "received"  has been mis-spelt :P
<SuperMatt> where have I done that?
<popey> its certainly an interesting area for supporting new users
<MooDoo> which is why I'm getting involved, to help with newbies lol
<SuperMatt> indeed, last night I was helping someone with grub, someone get an n64 emulator working, and someone running apache
<mungbean> Day 1 ctrl-f reciev
<MooDoo> I started recieving requests for help.
<MartijnVdS> resieve?
 * mungbean slaps MartijnVdS 
<SuperMatt> do
<SuperMatt> *doh
 * MooDoo should of spotted that as well lol
<SuperMatt> I walways do that ;)
<SuperMatt> I don't walways do that typo though
<mungbean> i have a radar for typos
<SuperMatt> you must be an English teacher
<mungbean> my Red Had Certified Systems Administrator exam,
<popey> "You will require Canonicalâs permission to use: (i) any mark ending with the letters UBUNTU or BUNTU which is sufficiently similar to the Trademarks or any other confusingly similar mark, and (ii) any Trademark in a domain name or URL or for merchandising purposes."
<mungbean> http://www.ubuntu-helpouts.org/matthew-ames/
<mungbean> typo on there
<popey> that one is probably the thing you'd need to consider
<popey> http://www.canonical.com/intellectual-property-policy
<MooDoo> SuperMatt: i'll email canonical about this.
<bigcalm> mungbean: what's Red Had? ;)
<mungbean> SuperMatt's typo
<bigcalm> Ah
<bigcalm> Maybe I should pay attention
<bigcalm> Then again...
<mungbean> sit up there at the back of class!
<mungbean> stop slouching!
<mungbean> i'm writing more documentation today
<mungbean> shutter is a nice tool for screenshots
<bigcalm> I want more sleep
<mungbean> also includes upload to imgur directly in
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: better than alt+printscreen?
<mungbean> yes
<popey> yes
<mungbean> well alt-printscreen saves the screenshot and opens shutter window
<MooDoo> SuperMatt: Canonical contactd
<mungbean> not as good as psr on windows, which is the best app not available for linux
<mungbean> nice pic MooDoo
<mungbean> on your about page
<MooDoo> Thanks :)
<mungbean> looking good
<MooDoo> does ubuntu -uk still have a mugshot gallery?
<mungbean> does ubuntu-uk still exist after the ubuntu uk'ers all got jobs for canonical :P
<mungbean> i think the planet page stopped
<MooDoo> well I was thinking about asking the best way to get the planet reactivated...maybe look after it myself?
<MooDoo> it's still listed on the ubuntu-uk.org page
<mungbean> was it closed for lack of resources or some other reason
<MooDoo> wow so old -
<mungbean> if its non members then it could be anyone writing anything, but not bound by CoC
<MooDoo> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/Gallery/Members
<mungbean> so broken
<MooDoo> yup, might be time for a tidy up.
<TheOpenSourcerer> popey: AlanBell https://plus.google.com/u/0/+WebUpd8/posts/UfCgv3DByck lol
<popey> yeah, we shutdown the planet
<MooDoo> popey: how come?  too much time to maintain?
<popey> haha TheOpenSourcerer
<MartijnVdS> popey: that sounds bad out of context
<mungbean> lol
<popey> we discussed it at a meeting some time back
<popey> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/LastMeeting
<popey> we also turned off ircstats, and brobostigon stepped up to make a new one, which works.
<popey> http://taylorworld.me.uk/ubuntu-uk.html
<JamesTait> Good morning all; and though I hesitate to say it, happy Men Make Dinner Day! :-D
<popey> I *always* make dinner!
<popey> If my wife boils water she burns it.
<JamesTait> I don't *always* make dinner, but it's not rare.  That's why I hesitate to say it.  The can is open, there are worms everywhere.
 * MartijnVdS always makes dinner as well
<popey> hah
<MartijnVdS> Living alone does that to you
<shauno> I suspect G+ killed the planet
<MartijnVdS> G+ is good though
<JamesTait> MartijnVdS, this is the thing, you see.  There are *loads* of situations where men *always* make dinner, some of them rather sensitive.
<mungbean> maybe g+ needs a community page for ubuntu UK
<MartijnVdS> is there a "shared circle" of Ubuntu people?
<MartijnVdS> because you can share circles..
<mungbean>  elementary has a community page, and i see posts to that community but i don't follow them
<brobostigon> glad to hear its working fine, :)
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<mungbean> wold be good to have the same for the ubuntu community, maybe it already exists
<brobostigon> all irc channels as a whole?
<JamesTait> Oh my! "The loudest one was JamesTait, who yelled 33.4% of the time!"
<mungbean> that'll be your morning call
<JamesTait> But then, "JamesTait isn't a sad person either, smiling 38.1% of the time."  So it's all good, right?
<JamesTait> This IRCstats thing is going to ruin my reputation as a grumpy old man. :(
<MartijnVdS> JamesTait: â« Shouty happy people :)
<MooDoo> Poor MooDoo, nobody likes him/her. He/She was attacked 7 times. :) lol
 * popey creates one
<brobostigon> the play store update system seems dead, two devices, seperate networks, both get download failiure.
<MooDoo> woohoo I'm in the top 20 stats for most active nicks.
<mungbean> not sure if thats a badge of pride or shame
<mungbean> both mungbean and my old alter ego are there
<mungbean> i think the stats should reflect maybe the last year rather than all time
<MooDoo> yeah think it just means i'm gobby
<mungbean> because somebody who was prolific in the past e.g. gordallot doesn't come anymore
<mungbean> so thi stends to skew results
<MooDoo> wow oimon 309 days ago
<MooDoo> actually quite a few i've not seen in awhile....
<mungbean> ali1234 spoke a total of 312992 words!
<mungbean> ali1234's faithful follower, popey, didn't speak so much: 231448 words.
<mungbean> lol
<MooDoo> yeah the stats can be fub
<MooDoo> fun
<JamesTait> But they're obviously wrong.  They say I spoke more than aquarius, which can't be true! :-P
* popey changed the topic of #ubuntu-uk to: Welcome to #ubuntu-uk! http://ubuntu-uk.org | This channel is publicly archived http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Mailing List http://tinyurl.com/uukml | Support Guidelines http://tinyurl.com/uuksupport | IRC stats: http://tinyurl.com/uukstat | G+ Community: http://tinyurl.com/uukgplus | next meeting TBA | ubuntuî¿
<mungbean> \o/
 * aquarius laughs
<MooDoo> O M G he spoke ;)
<MooDoo> well laughed
<aquarius> I'm on irc less these days than once I was
<andrewebdev> :)
<andrewebdev> joining right now
<mungbean> this is amazing http://www.thinkgeek.com/product/ef0b/
<Myrtti> I think I might actually be the most faithful customer of Nabee Socks
<brobostigon> is anyone else experiencing google play downloads failing, independant of network connection and device.?
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: let me check
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: thank you.
<MartijnVdS> works fine on N5
<brobostigon> hmmm,
<mungbean> should i disable hyperthreading on an esxi server?
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: all other stuff like facebook and g+ and k9 is working, so it is definatly isolated to that.
<dwatkins> mungbean: I suspect it depends what kind of work the servers themselves are doing; if it's not stuff that involves a lot of context switching (e.g. webserver, small jobs etc.) then leave it on, but if it's tasks which require lots of swapping in and out of memory, best to turn it off, I'd say.
<mungbean> "If the hardware and BIOS support hyper-threading, ESXi automatically makes use of it. For the best
<mungbean> performance we recommend that you enable hyper-threading"
<mungbean> ^^ vmware
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: do you have a connection to the google services (do hangouts work, for instance)
<shauno> and if you're binding VMs to cores, only bind them to even-numbered cores
<mungbean> http://www.vmware.com/pdf/Perf_Best_Practices_vSphere5.0.pdf
<popey> Myrtti: i need more nabee socks
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: how do i try a hangout ?
<Myrtti> popey: my count is ten pairs now... *blush*
<popey> blimey
<popey> i have one
 * mungbean wears M&S fresh feet
<shauno> eg, if you bind VMs to cores 0 and 1, they're bound to the same phyiscal core, which misses the point
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: you go into the hangouts app and message someone (yourself?)
<mungbean> "Be careful when using CPU affinity on systems with hyper-threading. Because the two logical processors
<mungbean> share most of the processor resources, pinning vCPUs, whether from different virtual machines or from
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: message myself? ok.
<mungbean> a single SMP virtual machine, to both logical processors on one core (CPUs 0 and 1, for example) could
<mungbean> cause poor performance."
<Myrtti> popey: four from kickstarter, two freebies for the review/quality control photos, and now four with discount codes and sales
<shauno> that's the one.  even-numbered cores are physical cores, odd-numbered cores are the second 'logical' core on each
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: can i test it on you please?
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: sure
<mungbean> Myrtti: are they flight socks?
<Myrtti> I wonder if their willingness to send me a Paypal invoice and ship them to UK/Finland even when the online shop their website uses is in any way attributed by the amount of socks I've got from them :-D
<Myrtti> mungbean: yup
<mungbean> my missis gets varicose veins and poor circulation, will it help her in the daytime too?
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: sent.
<popey> out of stock â¹
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: you can also check the connected-to-google status through typing *#*#8255#*#* into the dialer
<MartijnVdS> popey: out of sock!
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: ah, let me try.
<Myrtti> mungbean: they've helped me with my paranoia, also my feet do feel better on the days I wear them
<mungbean> International shipping is not available at this time. Worldwide shipping will be coming soon.
<mungbean> paranoia about people looking at your legs? talking about you behind your back?
<popey> they are dead comfy
<mungbean> paranoia about DVT
 * popey is wearing his â»
<Myrtti> mungbean: no, I've got a hereditary thing that increases my risk of DVT
<mungbean> ah, then 10 pairs is aceptable
<mungbean> popey is just wearing his for the lulz
<mungbean> and the feelz
<ali1234> bitcoin alpaca socks cured my exploding head syndrome
<popey> mostly for the feelz
<popey> hah, you really should go to bed â»
<Myrtti> yeah a note from the local university hematology headhoncho says I should take Heparin/whatever shots if I fly long distance etc.
<mungbean> i have a ibm emulex iscsi adapter and i'm getting the impresion that hardware iscsi only supported with an IBM network switch... EVIL!
<MooDoo> I've got a blood disorder that means I have to wear socks and take warfrin on long journeys Myrtti
<Myrtti> MooDoo: Leiden?
<MartijnVdS> wait.. Leiden?
<mungbean> i would buy these socks for wifey if they shipped them :S
<MooDoo> Myrtti: yup
<MooDoo> Myrtti: factor 5
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: ok, that seems to show a connection uptime currently of just over 26mins, so it seems i do have a connection.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: weird!
<Myrtti> MooDoo: likewise
<Myrtti> MooDoo: I got it from both my parents
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: i agree.
<MooDoo> Myrtti: yup me too :D
<popey> i bought two pares for @therealpopey
<MooDoo> Myrtti: carry a nice little green medical card with me ;)
<Myrtti> ooh nice
<mungbean> popey: how, in the kickstarter?
<MooDoo> Myrtti: and being 6'6 I usually get upgraded to bigger seats on planes lol :p
<Myrtti> no, I just got a letter from the university hospital, took it to my local surgery and asked for prescription for the shots - she laughed at my face and said this is hogwash, never heard of such a thing
<Myrtti> "you don't need this"
<MooDoo> Myrtti: oh dear
<Myrtti> "whatevs, just give me the prescription"
<davmor2> Morning all
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: my dad has a rare "protein C deficiency", and has to take anticoagulants daily
<MooDoo> davmor2: morning
<mungbean> i get the impression doctors would find something about me if they looked
<mungbean> but they've never loked
<Myrtti> mungbean: I've done business directly with awesome@nabeesocks.com - Brian sent me a Paypal invoice and seemed happy to send them to Finland/UK
<mungbean> how was the shipping charges?
<mungbean> *were
<davmor2> MooDoo: me owld mucka.  You recovered after the Fedora birthday bash? :D
<Myrtti> there was none for me, but I don't know how much that is influenced with the amount of socks I've ordered from them / participating in the kickstarter / sending them a product review
<davmor2> MooDoo: mind you it's still only allowed ribina I guess needs to be 18 to start drinking properly :)
<mungbean> mmm ribena
<Myrtti> mungbean: if you think it might help, you can try if mentioning that you heard of them from two Kickstarter pledgers - and you can mention at least me by name if you want
<Myrtti> :-P
<popey> mungbean: ya
<mungbean> :D
<MooDoo> davmor2: lol don't celebrate that, was working on this with SuperMatt ubuntu-helpouts.org
<davmor2> MooDoo: yeah I just stumbled across that in the G+ or Facebook
<MooDoo> davmor2: :D
<Myrtti> MartijnVdS: not defined any better? sounds odd but quite possibly Factor V Leiden then
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: it's not that one, but similar
<Myrtti> right
<Myrtti> oh man I need to stop reading Wikipedia, it makes me cry
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: switch to tvtropes
<shauno> bah.  hate when I keep putting off a phonecall, and then I get voicemail.  now I have to start putting it off all over again
<SuperMatt> I know that feeling
<SuperMatt> chances are you're calling the bank, doctor or dentist
<Laney> ooh, dentist
 * Laney needs to make an appointment, good reminder
<popey> ooh, haircut
<shauno> nah, customer :/
<SuperMatt> oh poops
 * popey needs to make an appointment, good reminder
<daftykins> i'm putting off calling back some roofing people as they were meant to come over at 11am but i'm not sure which day...
<Laney> I've needed a haircut for about 9 years
<SuperMatt> I should get a haircut too
<SuperMatt> I can't do anything with mine
<daftykins> Laney: :D
<shauno> I don't want a haircut, but I keep trimming bits that annoy me and .. well I'm sure if I could see the results, I'd want a haircut
<popey> booked \o/
<popey> my brother is a hairdresser, runs his own salon
<daftykins> :o
 * MooDoo wishes he had hair lol
<SuperMatt> hurr
<popey> https://www.facebook.com/CabelloHairdressers
 * daftykins hands MooDoo a stylish wig
<SuperMatt> hmmm
<SuperMatt> it's a bit far for me to get a hair cut
<Myrtti> Laney: only four years for me
<shauno> you'd just end up looking like an elvis impersonator anyway
<popey> uh-huh-huh
<davmor2> popey: you could get a Lionel Blair Cut like mine
<popey> uh. no.
<popey> sam needs a cut too
<popey> his grows as fast as mine
<Laney> DONE
<SuperMatt> there's two of you with hair that grows that fast?
<davmor2> popey: I hope you're not mocking my hair cut it takes a lot of time and energy to keep it looking this good :D
<SuperMatt> I'm surprised the Mrs isn't tripping over hair all the time
<SuperMatt> and tangled up in knots
<Laney> Probably going to regret booking the appointment for 0830
<shauno> "8:30 do?  sure!  *click*  d'oh!"
<Myrtti> mine tangles a lot nowadays, and I have to keep it braided or contained otherwise when in the kitchen because it gets everywhere. Let me tell you, finding a hair in your food isn't as bad as finding food in your hair. Especially after putting dishes in the dishwasher.
<Laney> I asked for one early in the morning
<Laney> "oh crap, that's what early means"
<daftykins> Myrtti: XD
<SuperMatt> my housemate's hair is quite long and falls out all the time (she has lots of it, so it's ok). If we don't hoover every few days, we start getting tumbleweeds of her hair
 * Myrtti looks at the floors
<Myrtti> yeah, we've kinda agreed we might need help with that vacuuming bit
<shauno> that's how my shower works too.  except I don't have mousemates to blame
<Myrtti> *cough*
<penguin42> hmm mousemates
<shauno> no idea where that came from
<SuperMatt> I used to have mousemates
<SuperMatt> glue strips were the only way to be rid of them :'(
<SuperMatt> fortunately, they make a lot of noise so you can kill them quickly before they die in agony
<shauno> I had a rodent infestation in the states.  it seems to work differently there.  it started off as a chipmunk infestation, then a cat infestation (but no chipmunks).  and then a coyote infestation (but no cats)
<SuperMatt> that's... insane
<penguin42> shauno: I'd worry about the brown bears that go after the coyotes
<shauno> very much so.  I actually liked the chipmunks :/
<penguin42> are the chipmunks the ones with the cute stripe?
<daftykins> SuperMatt: mine is like that =/ i have white stairs up to my bedroom, they tend to just be coated with my lost hair >_<
<shauno> I only ever saw one bear.  not something I'd want to repeat
<SuperMatt> I seem to have defied the hair trend in my family
<SuperMatt> it started thinning back in uni, 10 years ago, but since then it has stopped
<diddledan> penguin42: I think the ones with the stripe are called skunks :-p
<diddledan> shauno: lots of beers tho, I'm guessing?
<penguin42> diddledan: No! See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chipmunk
<diddledan> nawww, cute!
<diddledan> they're squirrels, really
<penguin42> diddledan: Yeh, I mean you'd feel a lot more guilty about killing one of those than one of our mice or rats
<AlanBell> unless they started singing, then all the guilt would drain away
<shauno> I was just looking to see if I still had pics.  we 'dispatched' quite a few of them
<diddledan> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZRAARqgJeU
<diddledan> did you all just commit murdercide?
<diddledan> c'mon you loved it really!
<penguin42> shauno: Sheesh and you've not made the hat to prove it
<popey> can someone on saucy see if they can reproduce https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mumble/+bug/1248931
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 1248931 in mumble (Ubuntu) "Mumble window always starts behind other windows" [Undecided,New]
 * awilkins had to deal with squirrels in his loft. Terminally.
<awilkins> I only mention it because of the above discussion of rodents. And the fact that I heard something scurrying around up there earlier.
<mgdm> with extreme prejudice?
<shauno> problem is they're cute when they're outside.  not when they're inside.  and not when they're inside a wood-framed house
<awilkins> Cage-trapped them. Of course, the law says that since they are vermin, catch and release is verboten.
<awilkins> Tried to do away with them as humanely as possible.
<diddledan> awilkins: I thought only greys were considered vermin
<penguin42> shauno: Oh, eating the house?
<awilkins> They were greys
<diddledan> tis okie then
<awilkins> They completely buggered my loft inuslation by making nests of it
<shauno> penguin42: yeah.  american style farmhouse, ~120 years old.  almost completely edible
<awilkins> Can't have been very comfortable
<awilkins> Rock wool is really itchy
<diddledan> awilkins: humanely.. you should have done it the german way and sent them to a mass internment camp.</racism>
<penguin42> awilkins: Maybe not a problem when you have fur?
<awilkins> Squirrel pasty : http://img.metro.co.uk/i/pix/2008/05/SquirrelPastieSWNS_450x450.jpg
<awilkins> http://metro.co.uk/2008/05/11/shoppers-go-nuts-for-squirrel-pasty-138838/
<awilkins> I'm so pleased that's still the no.1 hit for "squirrel pasty" on Google.
<daftykins> :'(
<awilkins> If I'm ever in the vicinity of his shop I'll reserve a couple
<shauno> I wonder if he'll take a part trade-in for some of your loft squirrels?
<daftykins> hahaha
<MartijnVdS> â« Wanted, dead or alive
<AlanBell> popey: not reproduced here
<AlanBell> popey: then again . . .
<ali1234> popey: have you always-on-top'd it?
<shauno> windows admins are weird.  is it sending email or not?  tcpdump would have answered this already.  but I've got someone talking to themselves about exchange receive connectors?
<diddledan> wtf are receive connectors?
<MooDoo> they control the flow on inbound messages to your server
<shauno> I'm hoping they're a windows thing, else this is going to be a *really* long call
<MooDoo> yes they are exchange server related
<MooDoo> http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa996395(v=exchg.150).aspx
<shauno> that sounds hopefully convincing, since he should be whitelisting an IP to send without auth
<diddledan> why do I need to sign-into live.com to view that technet article?
<MartijnVdS> because it's microsoft
<jussi> ...
<MooDoo> diddledan: do you have to sign in?  I'm not and I can read it? or is it the other parts you need to sign in for?
<diddledan> MooDoo: it just redirected me to the live.com signin page
<shauno> didn't here
<MooDoo> diddledan: strange doesn't for me :(
<diddledan> it says: "Because you're accessing sensitive info, you need to verify your password."
<MartijnVdS> no password prompt here either
<dwatkins> I get asked to enter my password on technet and MSDN sites.
<shauno> I'm downloading a trial of exchange 2007 because it can't be this difficult :(
<dwatkins> I must have done it fairly recently, as MooDoo's link didnt ask me for this, however.
<shauno> dan broke technet?
<mgdm> diddledan: try incognito mode - it might be detecting that you once signed in elsewhere
<diddledan> shauno: I seem to break a lot of things
<diddledan> shauno: I think they don't like the beard
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: wiping dalvik cache solved the issue for some reason, amazingly enough.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: doesn't that imply rebooting?
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: maybe the reboot fixed it?
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: i had rebooted it before that point, and it didnt change the sysptom.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: ah, strange. Never had that.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: Are you running custom firmware or stock?
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: me neither, first time for everything.
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: MartijnVdS cm 10.2
<diddledan> I need feeding
<MooDoo> yay cm10.2 :) i use that on my s3
<diddledan> I've got stock kitkat on my n5
<diddledan> just sayin
<diddledan> :-p
<MooDoo> :p
<MooDoo> cm will have it soon :p
<diddledan> they've gone to flatland
<brobostigon> MooDoo: will probably have nightlies in 4 or 5 months time.
<ali1234> you always have to wipe the dalvik cache after you update cyanogenmod, and i always forget
<ali1234> and then it breaks
<MooDoo> brobostigon: yeah I'm instaling nightlies any way, normally leave it a few days before I update.
<brobostigon> MooDoo: i was on 10.1 previously before 10.2-m1 ,
<selinuxium> Afternoon all   o/
<brobostigon> afternoodlings selinuxium
<diddledan> nood?
<diddledan> who's nood?
<diddledan> pics or it didn't happen!
<brobostigon> it was a play on words, as some people have noodles around lunch time, which it is.
<ali1234> hmm sounds like a plan
<selinuxium> Top Ramen and Jump cola...
<selinuxium> <remembering the late night programmers diet>
<diddledan> lunch. that definitely sounds important.
<popey> ali1234: no
<MooDoo> brobostigon: not done the m1 yet
<brobostigon> MooDoo: it worked well, untill i gor the above issue.
<daftykins> hmm a client has begun using: http://www.xero.com/uk/
<daftykins> online accounting service via her accountants 0o
<TheOpenSourcerer> daftykins: Yay! I'd love to put by company's financial details out of my control too ;-) Where do I sign up?
<TheOpenSourcerer> *my
<dwatkins> There's a similar thing advertised on GRC's podcasts which does invoicing automatically and clients get an e-mail with a link to click and pay
<TheOpenSourcerer> Yep OpenERP does that too :-)
<daftykins> TheOpenSourcerer: very trusting isn't it
<TheOpenSourcerer> very
<TheOpenSourcerer> At least with OpenERP it's my database.
<daftykins> the idea is she'll be able to upload pics of her expense receipts direct now
<TheOpenSourcerer> And...
<TheOpenSourcerer> ?
<TheOpenSourcerer> OpenERP does that too.
<daftykins> oh it wasn't any kind of comparison statement
<TheOpenSourcerer> No - just wondering what was coming after "uploading..."
<TheOpenSourcerer> To do what?
<mgdm> can OpenERP make me a bacon sarnie? :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Yes!
<daftykins> oic - just to provide them direct paperless as i understand
<MartijnVdS> mgdm: TheOpenSourcerer can write a module for it I'm sure
<TheOpenSourcerer> if you can write a Pythion module for it.
<mgdm> \o/
<daftykins> i need to give them a prod to see what their ideal method would be, i was thinking smartphone + dropbox, heh
<TheOpenSourcerer> Not me. AlanBell probably could though.
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: Are you a wizard? :)
<daftykins> Pinball Wizard
 * mgdm wires up an Arduino to a George Foreman, and talks to it over MQTT (MQ Toastie Transport)
<TheOpenSourcerer> I'm not trying to push OpenERP - It is *nothing* like Xero in reality and not really for one-man-band type businesses who just want simple accounts.
<MartijnVdS> mgdm: HTCPCP
<TheOpenSourcerer> AlanBell: Is now at lunch.
<MartijnVdS> do nov  7 14:45:04 CET 2013
<Martyn86> Hi there :) Does anyone here sell computers with Ubuntu on them? The reason I ask is I have 6 towers and I don't know what to do with them...
<diddledan> Martyn86: are you asking about new or second hand sellers?
<jussi> Martyn86: there are a bunch of charities... also I _think_ AlanBell was involved with something
<Martyn86> Never thought of charities, that's an idea...
<jussi> Martyn86: czajkowski may have been somehow involved in charity stuff also, but I am unsure if she still is.
<Martyn86> Did think of turning them into servers BUT I have a crap connection :D
<Martyn86> Ok will have a look at my local charities and see what they say thanks Jussi :D
<jussi> MAAS!
<jussi> Martyn86: you are most welcome :)
<MartijnVdS> jussi: MAAS-as-a-service!
<jussi> hehe
<TheOpenSourcerer> Any MS Houses? Prices up again shortly... http://www.netnetweb.com/blog/microsoft-price-increases-yep-here-it-comes-again/
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: yeah, they have to fund those PHP bounties somehow: https://hackerone.com/ibb
<shauno> msft really don't want to make it easy to stay legit
<diddledan> 20%? ouch
<shauno> I just found out they don't have trial versions of 2003 anymore :(
<diddledan> shauno: I guess you can't run exchange then :-p
<shauno> heh, good guess.  trying to mockup this braindamage to see what he's looking at
<DJones> Anybody got their bitcoins in Inputs.io http://www.techienews.co.uk/972801/secure-bitcoin-wallet-inputs-io-hacked-unable-pay-user-balances/
<TheOpenSourcerer> There's really not much reason to stay on MS any more, apart from legacy support issues. There's plenty of alternatives
<ali1234> nope.
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: tell that to the people still using big Windows apps
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: yes, they exist
<TheOpenSourcerer> that's why I said "legacy"
<diddledan> Azelphur: are your bitcoins safe? 30K is a lot to lose to hackers
<diddledan> big doesn't necessarily mean legacy
<diddledan> and windows doesn't necessarily mean legacy either
<diddledan> it could be brand new
<TheOpenSourcerer> Windows *is* legacy software
<diddledan> people really are still putting money into the ecosystem
<shauno> 30k?  says they lost 4100 btc.  btc hit $300 today, so that's over 750k
<ali1234> the only version of windows that isn't legacy is 8, and nobody uses that
<diddledan> that's a matter of opinion
<mgdm> Legacy is a word that has come to mean "anything that isn't the thing I'm currently trying to sell you"
<diddledan> shauno: Azelphur has 30K at last count
<TheOpenSourcerer> Or it's what the London Olympics promised ;-)
<MartijnVdS> shauno: it hit $300?! whoa
<ali1234> it hit $318 earlier
<MartijnVdS> bitstamp has it at 285 atm
<ali1234> there is a big difference between the exchanges depending on the fees and what currencies they support
<MartijnVdS> bitstamp is one of the biggest Euro ones
<shauno> this is the weird side of btc being 'free'.  I wonder how much law enforcement will get involved with a 750,000gbp robbery
<ali1234> i'm guessing "not at all"
<ali1234> like they don't get involved in any computer crime except when it makes them look bad
<shauno> as far as the law goes, it does't actually seem too different from sheldon cooper calling the police when his WoW items were stolen
<diddledan> the only computer crime they're interested in is kiddyporn
<diddledan> shauno: I hope they helped
<diddledan> I haven't seen that episode
<shauno> I won't ruin it for you :)
<diddledan> "wait, I need closure on that anecdote"
<Laney> grarg
<MartijnVdS> Laney: BRAINS?
<diddledan> lol
<Laney> BRAINSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS
<MooDoo> zombie apocalypse ubuntu uk style
<Laney> Or: help me with this: My smoke alarm, which is integrated with the burglar alarm, went off yesterday, and is now blocking the setting of the intruder alarm when we leave. It's immune to the normal reset procedure.
<Laney> crappy device
<diddledan> wait. I didn't g+ terrible terrible halloween photos
<diddledan> my entire costume consisted of a scouser wig
<diddledan> I mean, who in their right mind isn't afraid of northerners?!
<daftykins> hrmm i've got a wordpress setup playing up - it's unable to contact the wordpress.org site it seems, as it doesn't think there are any updates available
<daftykins> has anyone had much experience with the devils?
<diddledan> daftykins: what version?
<daftykins> it's stuck on 3.5.1
<diddledan> aah, it's not that it silently updated itself then
<daftykins> "An unexpected error has occurred" if i try and search plugins
<diddledan> 3.7 has auto update enabled
<daftykins> ja
<daftykins> there are no issues wget'ing the latest wordpress zip
<daftykins> so my VPS doesn't have the site blocked
<diddledan> maybe the API changed?
<shauno> just took a peek in on a friends, seems to be checking for details fine, so it doesn't look clogged at wp's end
<shauno> also noticed she has over 10,000 comments in moderation.  uhoh
<ali1234> what happens if i update my server, which cannot be updated over the web, to 3.7?
<diddledan> shauno: fun
<daftykins> shauno: thanks - yeah this is a custom build one by a web dev, so it's not worked since the beginning
<diddledan> ali1234: it tries and fails
<ali1234> every time?
<MartijnVdS> all the times!
<diddledan> ali1234: why can't it be updated over the web? what do you mean by that?
<ali1234> the biggest security problem with wordpress is not people running out of date versions. it's the very fact that they make the source directory writable by the webserver
<diddledan> if it's in a closed-off system that physically can't access the internet then it won't know that there's an update available
<ali1234> therefore on my install, the wordpress directory is not writable by the webserver
<diddledan> ic
<diddledan> it should detect that wordpress files are unwritable and not try
<ali1234> in order to update wordpress or any plugins i log in on ssh, download them, and unpack them as a normal user
<mgdm> Does WP do the thing where there's only an index.php in the web root and all the code is elsewhere?
<diddledan> mgdm: no
<ali1234> not by default
<diddledan> you can do that tho
<mgdm> I keep forgetting it's designed to work on shared hosts
<MartijnVdS> not many "easy to install" web-downloadable PHP apps do
<mgdm> many of which can't do that
<diddledan> but wp-admin files need to be available directly
<MartijnVdS> they do ship a restrictive .htaccess I think,
<mgdm> that requries that .htaccess files are actually parsed :-)
<diddledan> the htaccess they ship effectively rewrites everything to index.php except for files that exist on the provided path
<daftykins> any thoughts on what i should do to try and track down why this wordpress instance can't dial home?
<MartijnVdS> true, especially now more and more hosters are switching to not-apache httpds
<daftykins> maybe i should just enable wordpress debug and see if it tells me :)
<ali1234> check the error logs
<ali1234> it will probably be moaning there, it usually does
<daftykins> i've tried looking in /var/log/apache2 but don't see anything relevant
<ali1234> no vhosts?
<MartijnVdS> no error.log?
<MartijnVdS> no ErrorLog directive in /etc/apache/sites-enabled/your_vhost.conf ?
<diddledan> error log is usually /var/log/apache2/error_log
<daftykins> error.log hasn't been written to today
<ali1234> that seems unlikely
<daftykins> i wonder if it's something to do with my setup being a BigV VPS with symbiosis
<ali1234> does it have plesk or something?
<daftykins> nah
<ali1234> that totally screws up all apache configuration
<daftykins> symbiosis is their automagic config thing
<daftykins> it configures things by just creating directories in the right places
<daftykins> ah i found the relevant file, zz-mass-hosting.access.log
<daftykins> well that one is at least updated
<diddledan> daftykins: sounds like they're using mod_vhost_alias
<daftykins> should be a correspondingly named error
<daftykins> i'm mostly just seeing file does not exist errors
<daftykins> and nothing up to the minute
<daftykins> perhaps it's wordpress debug time
<popey> http://www.wired.com/gamelife/2013/11/playstation4-teardown-video/
<daftykins> :O
<diddledan> popey: that's just wrong
<diddledan> imagine someone doing a popey teardown video!!!
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: the horror!
<diddledan> it's just cruelty for the sake of it
<popey> its a nicely made video
<diddledan> poor ps4. what did it ever do to upset the videographer
<popey> its really nicely put together
<directhex> probsbly a non working unit
<AlanBell> good idea to do their own teardown
<diddledan> it would have been perfectly happy sat under the telly and then some evil bar steward comes along, captures it and subjects it to torture!
<popey> makes a point of saying you can use any hard disk
<popey> didnt realise ps4 was x86
<AlanBell> no more cell clever oddness
<MartijnVdS> popey: xbox one and ps4 both have AMD APUs
<MartijnVdS> whichever console wins this round, AMD also wins
<diddledan> that motherboard looks pretty spartan
<diddledan> and not very condensed
<diddledan> it looks like it's bigger than it needs to be
<diddledan> to a non-trained eye like mine, that is
<popey> yeah, i thought that
<diddledan> they seem to have taken the lessons learned by cellphone manufacturers and said, no we want to do it the other way
<mgdm> wonder if that's to do with heat or EMI or some other things </clueless newbie>
<daftykins> diddledan: best way, makes the later release of the smaller model sell ;)
 * diddledan sits with mgdm on the newbie bench
<popey> well otherwise they'd need two boards?
<popey> or cables and such
<ali1234> the board looks empty because there's no traces on the top and bottom layers
<ali1234> nokia does the same thing
<ali1234> eg http://maemo.cloud-7.de/Gallery-N900-exploded/n900_11.jpeg
<diddledan> I also wonder why a games console needs a cmos-ram-backup battery
<mgdm> it's essentially a PC in a different box
<diddledan> surely they all ship with the same cmos-ram setup so they can bake that into flash instead of cmos
<mgdm> what about the date and time?
<diddledan> ntp
<diddledan> they've pretty much specified that the units have to be permanetted
<diddledan> afaik
<diddledan> can anyone get to wpmu.org?
<diddledan> I loaded a page and now it's dead
<diddledan> it looks like cloudflare's dns is broke
<mgdm> Works For Meâ¢
<daftykins> diddledan: working here sir
<mgdm> I'd be surprised if CloudFlare's DNS was broken over your own :P
<diddledan> cloudflare.com itself seems down
<shauno> both are up here
<mgdm> diddledan: no, it's you and/or your DNS :)
<daftykins> i think if i got a next gen console i'd want to pop an SSD in straight away
<diddledan> this is what I was getting while it was broke: http://paste.ubuntu.com/6376885/
<popey> i have an SSD in my Xbox 360
<AlanBell> 500GB SSD is still a wee bit costly
<daftykins> popey: breaks terms of service though
<daftykins> you can be banned online
<popey> wat?
<daftykins> if it's in essence, a mod, it's against ToS
<mungbean> what happens when you get opless channels in freenode?
<mungbean> and a persistent troll?
<AlanBell> mungbean: does the channel name start with #ubuntu-* ?
<diddledan> mungbean: the troll be's mindless?
<mgdm> mungbean: are they definitely opless, or are there ops who just aren't opped at the moment (like in here?)
<mungbean> nope
<mungbean> mgdm: i dunno
<AlanBell> then ask in #freenode
<mungbean> thx
<diddledan> if there's a mindless idiot and noone to control him, then the chances are he'll carry on being mindless
<shauno> diddledan: http://paste.ubuntu.com/6376900/
<diddledan> I think it was the wrong question to ask when there's someone like me about
<diddledan> I'll pick it to pieces in no time :-p
<popey> not sure how it's a mod
<daftykins> popey: is it a legit xbox accessory?
<daftykins> because i don't think they make SSDs for them
<shauno> it's either stock,a licenced accessory, or a modification. whether it's enough to violate probably depends on what jobsworth you run into, what mood they woke up in, and what you did to get their attention in the first place
<popey> how odd
<daftykins> shauno: yip
<daftykins> it's either account bans / console bans
<shauno> the problem is automated schemes.  because they're either jobsworths or broken.
<popey> i had no idea putting a hard disk in was a bannable offence
<popey> hey ho
<popey> i just shoved it in
<mungbean> :-|
<daftykins> *nod*
<daftykins> times be awkward
<daftykins> i'd love an SSD in mine to make GTA V's streamloading issues go away
<dwatkins> I imagne they have a list of tested hard drives.
<dwatkins> Anything not in the list is effectively unsupported.
<daftykins> well, their tested list would comprise of their accessories only i should think :)
<dwatkins> most likely it does, allowing them to package them appropriately (thus reducing support costs for people fitting their own disks)
<daftykins> it's only the 360 S that exposes the standard 2.5" connectors i believe
<daftykins> my elite and the older models all have the proprietary connector and sort of docking piece that slaps on the top/side
<daftykins> naturally, those can probably be stripped down to insert an aftermarket drive, but i think there are encryption keys making that harder
<daftykins> just sent my email to my ISP to complain about the router resets that occurred whilst i was away
<daftykins> hopefully they don't fob me off
<SuperMatt> they probably will
<SuperMatt> no offence
<daftykins> heh
<daftykins> i use non-default subnets on me and my clients routers, so when they occurred they got pretty scuppered
<SuperMatt> yeesh
<SuperMatt> oh wait, factory resets?
<daftykins> yeah they somehow factory reset them
<SuperMatt> /o\
<daftykins> from their end
<SuperMatt> that's the wortst
<daftykins> despite modified passwords etc.
<SuperMatt> get your butt-kickin boots on
<daftykins> indeed :D
<daftykins> i demanded an explanation, explanation of what actions they've taken to stop it in future and potentially newer firmware versions without that function
<awilkins> I just use my own router
<awilkins> ISP supplied router is in "MODEM" mode
<daftykins> yeah, VDSL2+ seems hard to provide for though
<daftykins> etailers aren't exactly packed with options
<daftykins> silly me i thought we'd be ok with the Technicolor TG789vn's they give us
<awilkins> Can you not just do the same, just put a router inside the ISP one
<daftykins> less than ideal, quite the waste of power to have two devices where only one is needed
<daftykins> i've got a Huawei HG612 mind you, but they're wired only :)
<daftykins> so you'd need a separate WAP still then
<daftykins> BT Openreach units
<directhex> BT issue huawei or ECI modems, plus their router
<directhex> apparently the new homehub 5 has built-in vdsl modem, but they're still issuing modems by default
<daftykins> o rly
<daftykins> yeah the little Huawei is modem only as-is but can do NAT when modified
<diddledan> I've got an openreach HG612
<directhex> in the general case, i'd be wary of using a single device
<directhex> consider every consumer-grade adsl router you've used, and how it falls over under load...
<diddledan> I had to reset it when I changed suppliers to sky because sky are weird, but before that I'd hacked it
<daftykins> directhex: yeah, i always had a modular setup myself in the past
<daftykins> but this Technicolor i have is the first non-'g' wireless thing i've owned XD
<shauno> I like having a seperate modem just for troubleshooting.  the last installer to take one look at my 'home office' told me I'm on my own. if I can plug the modem straight to my laptop and replicate it, they can stop blaming me
<shauno> I still have two routers running off one modem.  I'd really need to hide that if they ever need to come back
<diddledan> shauno: daisy chained or..?
<shauno> nope, each one net-facing with its own public IP
<diddledan> serials?
<diddledan> how'd you manage that?
<shauno> parallels :p
<diddledan> don't most isps limit the mac address?
<diddledan> i.e. only one mac per line
<shauno> honestly, I have no idea how it works.  I never exepected it to work
<diddledan> so to use a different unit you have to disconnect the first
<diddledan> really odd
<diddledan> I might have to give that a go
<diddledan> I wonder if sky would notice that my vdsl line had two ips
<shauno> I had everything hooked up when it was fresh installed.  and then I finally found the option to switch it to bridged (commented out in the UI!).  and it all .. just worked
<diddledan> is that cable or dsl?
<shauno> cable
<diddledan> hmm
<diddledan> oddness
<shauno> I don't do dsl.  the state telco here make BT look fresh & innocent
<diddledan> do virgin do the cable over there or is there a local co?
<shauno> nah, chorus/upc bought the remains of ntl-ireland
<shauno> so it's neither virgin, nor local
<mgdm> shauno: where are you?
<mgdm> oh, nm
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> mgdm: brainfart?
<mgdm> no, I just missed a line
<shauno> I know it's not linux, but any ideas what this line means?  (in ifconfig's output)  "nd6 options=1<PERFORMNUD>"
<diddledan> lmao
<diddledan> I read that as "perform nude"
<diddledan> I was thinking, sure I know shauno 's nets aren't the most family friendly but still
<shauno> I'm actually not sure that it's not, but I have no idea why it's in the ipv6 neighbour-discovery?
<diddledan> google doesn't know
<diddledan> top answer: http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-stable/2010-November/060301.html
<diddledan> nud = neighbour update, mayhaps?
<diddledan> another flag I see for that field is accept_rtadv which obcviously means accept router advertisements
<diddledan> ooh, my thunderbolt ethernet supports hardware vlan tagging
<diddledan> why are KVM switches so bloomin expensive?
<diddledan> especially dual-head ones
<shauno> that reminds me, I wonder if freebsd has ip-over-thunderbolt yet.  waiting for that one, oddly
<diddledan> o_O
<diddledan> how's that work?
<shauno> same as when you throw a firewire cable between two machines
<diddledan> oic
<shauno> except now you're looking at 10gig for the (high) price of a cable instead of 800meg
<shauno> suffice to say I'm really hoping this finds its way to freenas
<diddledan> ok, usually they're expensive, how is this one not? http://g.bowlhat.net/17aQPOK
<mgdm> probably because it uses a physical switch instead of electronics to do all the switching
<mgdm> </wild speculation>
<mgdm> </closing tags are the new hashtags>
<diddledan> aah
<imanc> ls
<mgdm> Password:
<Laney> hunter2
<mgdm> I just saw *******
<Azelphur> diddledan: as safe as I can make them, they are on a laptop with a full drive encrypted partition, with an OS dedicated to just the bitcoin client, and nothing else.
<shauno> it reads like the scale of the hack was mismanagement.  most sites use a 'hot wallet' and a second out-of-band.  the hot wallet is meant to be the exposed 'inbox' that's kept as small as it can just for this reason
<shauno> it sounds like input.io's 'hot wallet' accounted for something like 90% of their balance
<Azelphur> shauno: yea, it's a combination of things really
<Azelphur> a site like that should hot wallet, and have various sanity checks on the server.
<Azelphur> it also sounds like the host was compromised rather than inputs.io itself, I've seen that happen before
<Azelphur> it's a very good lesson in security for everyone really, It doesn't matter how secure you make your server, as attackers can just target the host.
<diddledan> it was a vps then?
<Azelphur> diddledan: no idea, the article says "The attacker managed to compromise the hosting account of input.io through the use of an old email address"
<AlanBell> bitcoin is being a learning experience for many
<MartijnVdS> did it drop again?
<daftykins> http://i.imgur.com/5Dq6K2U.png
<daftykins> i like this ^
<Azelphur> hehe
<Azelphur> and just for reference, I'm north of Â£21k in this bubble now :)
<Azelphur> but, it is of course a bubble, it'll go down soon, and I can't cash out because the tax man will want his ridiculouspercent.
<Azelphur> I imagine it'll probably settle around Â£80-Â£120 once this is all over
<MartijnVdS> so.. time to get verified with bitstamp ;)
<MartijnVdS> and await the </bubble>
<AlanBell> tax man is concerned with net income over the period surely
<shauno> curious, do you come out better off if you cash out at a less-taxable amount?  surely there has to be a point where you still walk away with more despite the taxes
<AlanBell> losses offset gains
<MartijnVdS> so you CAN cash out, as long as you re-invest before the end of the (tax) year
<MartijnVdS> ?
<shauno> that said, I've never figured out how taxes work here.  I just know that when I get a bonus, it feels like I didn't
<AlanBell> yes, if bitcoin isn't considered money
<AlanBell> and this isn't income tax anyhow, you are doing it through a ltd company right Azelphur?
<Azelphur> shauno: as far as I know, there's no way for me to walk out with a profit if I pay tax.
<Azelphur> AlanBell: nah I'm not, this is all my personal stuff, and I believe if I cashed out I'd have to pay capital gains, which would be 40%
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: what if it goes up to $400 or $500?
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: there must be a turning point?
<Azelphur> so in order to cash out and buy back in, I'd loose 40%.
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: oh sure, it's just ridiculously high / probably never gonna happen
<AlanBell> oh, capital gains might be nasty, yeah
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: this is a record right?
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: nah, we've been at thesep rices before
<AlanBell> erm, wrap it in a company
<Azelphur> but if I wanted to try and turn a profit on this, I'd have to sell now, and then the price would have to fall to Â£80 (currently Â£200) for me to break even on rebuying
<Azelphur> which...most likely isn't going to happen.
<shauno> sell it to Azelphur Ltd for a bargain price?
<Azelphur> I dunno, I am actually director on a bitcoin ltd now
<Azelphur> but the thing is its a 3 way split
<Azelphur> so I guess I'd have to create a new company just for myself
<Azelphur> but then the company would still have to pay capital gains, no?
<Azelphur> maybe I should use all this money to hire an accountant.
<AlanBell> yeah, just azelphur holdings ltd
<AlanBell> and you need to get the asset into the company somehow
<AlanBell> dunno how you would do that bit, it is an accountant question
<shauno> I'd highly recommend shauno ltd., our corporate tax is the laughing stock of the world ;)
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: you could try the Google/Amazon/Vodafone trick
<Azelphur> lol :p
<Azelphur> oh yea?
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: The Netherlands allows tax loopholes or something
<Azelphur> fun
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_Irish_arrangement
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: look for: Dutch Sandwich
<AlanBell> companies can buy and sell things, you just have to make sure it isn't a business asset, which it probably isn't
<shauno> "Double Irish With a Dutch Sandwich" .. perhaps accountants have more fun than I give them credit for
<MartijnVdS> shauno: sounds dirty
<Azelphur> xD
<shauno> really?  sounds like some tipple with lunch to me
<Azelphur> the other thing is if I did sell out, I'd end up having to do it in cash or something
<Azelphur> since all the banks don't like me any more :<
<Azelphur> and that's a lot of cash xD
<shauno> another point for ireland .. we have banks that haven't heard of you yet :p
<Azelphur> haha, good point
<Azelphur> I'm not even sure if I'd wanna trust a bank transfer on that though, they are so easy to reverse
<Azelphur> that's why I stopped trading, reversing bank transfers became popular
<shauno> not sure I'd do it one lump anyway, just because I really don't believe in this imaginary system
<Azelphur> lol
<Azelphur> I could sell most if not all of it in one shot, I do regularly get people contacting me for large amounts from my trading days
<shauno> well, that's essentially what it is.  an imaginary system, with the dollar value being the measurement of current faith
<Azelphur> had someone asking to buy 100 BTC this morning
<penguin42> Azelphur: Have you tried the smaller banks/building societies? Some of them are slightly less incompetent than the big banks
<diddledan> surely he needs more incompetent?
<diddledan> i.e. if the incompetent ones won't touch him because he's a risk - he wants more incompetent than that so they ignore the risk, no?
<Azelphur> penguin42: the basic deal with all banks in UK is that if you mention bitcoin, they'll seize all your assets and proceed to laugh at you.
<penguin42> Azelphur: So don't mention bitcoin?
<Azelphur> penguin42: they also like to question large transactions
<Azelphur> which would involve lying to them, I'm not sure on the legality of that
<Azelphur> that said, they had no problems lying to me continually :)
<penguin42> Azelphur: So don't do large transactions
<Azelphur> penguin42: basically, don't sell? XD
<diddledan> surely you can tell them it's international money laundering. it probably isn't far from the truth tbh :-p
<penguin42> Azelphur: one or two at a time?
<novine7> hello!
<novine7> Anyone here?
<Azelphur> penguin42: heh I tried that too, problem with that is if you wanna go such small sales, you have to trade with a boatload of people, they chargeback ya :)
<novine7> Hello Azelphur
<Azelphur> hello
<shauno> I feel poor now, I've never had a bank question a transaction
<novine7> hello shauno
<shauno> hi :)
<diddledan> it seems that pretty much at least once a month my debit card gets blocked for fraud checks
<novine7> What typically goes on in this cannel? I'n new
<penguin42> novine7: Random discussions
<popey> also ubuntu
<Azelphur> shauno: I've had the bank reverse a Â£5000 tx, and lie to the police about it.
<shauno> ah my creditcard is different .. they still haven't got the hang of most my significant transactions being at 3am
<penguin42> novine7: Vaguely related to computing, sometimes to ubuntu, occasionally UK specific
<Azelphur> they don't have any credibility in my book :)
<novine7> Cool!
<novine7> Anyone here watch Sherlock? Dr who?
<popey> yes. yes.
<novine7> :D
<diddledan> shauno: that's the very reason mine gets blocked
<novine7> MOUSTACHE
<Azelphur> diddledan: Santander blocked mine for buying a desk from ikea once
<Azelphur> serious criminal activity, yo.
<penguin42> Azelphur: Just think of all the crimes you could have committed on that desk
<diddledan> Azelphur: you're a known trouble maker, though
<novine7> Wow! Why?
<shauno> diddledan: it's getting better though.  the security number is open 24x7 now, so I don't have to wait until normalpeople o'clock
<Azelphur> xD
<diddledan> shauno: I need to make a note of hsbc's
<penguin42> shauno: Why do you make your significant payments at 3am ?
<diddledan> penguin42: because.. geek.
<penguin42> diddledan: No, a geek would make them at 3.14
<diddledan> surely every geek knows that the middle of the night is the most productive time
<shauno> usually because funds into the card show up on the account at midnight.  give or take a few hours to panic attack, question my choices, etc
 * penguin42 tends to start to flake a bit by 3am
<diddledan> shauno:you work on ensuring your account is empty by the end of payday?
<diddledan> I hear that!
<shauno> my CC has a fairly low limit on it.  if I want a laptop, I pretty much have to zero it before I can start again
<shauno> infact, the cost of the laptop I wanted last time I had to ask them to raise it, pretty much defines the limit
<shauno> I really don't like high limits.  I actually had a bank in the states lower it because the initial limit was just stupid (in excess of my annual income)
<penguin42> how did you persuade them to give you a limit that low?
<ali1234> barclays used to stop my card every time i used it on line
<shauno> the one here started at 1000eur, and I've only had it raised as far a macbook pro required
<ali1234> then they figured out i ONLY use it online, so they stopped
<shauno> the first card I had in the states was around $20k.  I was working in a coffee shop at the time.  no wonder they hit a 'credit crunch'
<Myrtti> novine7: Benedict, where? what about Sherlock? :-D
<ali1234> Azelphur: is bitcoinin.com trusted?
<Azelphur> never heard of it before, but looks pretty cool
<ali1234> they've been around for a while but i've never heard anything good or bad about them
<Azelphur> someone has to try them at some point :)
<ali1234> i was going to order like 10 raspis and send 8 of them to alanbell
<ali1234> depending on what the price does the next few days/weeks, anyway
<czajkowski> Aloha
<AlanBell> ali1234: cool :)
<AlanBell> I think I just found my 5V transformer for the common power rail http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nD0YJVwzOZ4
<MartijnVdS> that's 5V AC isn't it?
<AlanBell> now I need a 540A AC->DC converter
<diddledan> erm
<diddledan> eek
<MartijnVdS> also, yes, that man is scary.
<ali1234> AlanBell: that "professional dumbass" video from earlier was pretty funny too
<penguin42> AlanBell: That's a surprisingly small transformer
<AlanBell> the wires in the water one?
<AlanBell> couldn't believe it when he dropped the LED and shoved his hand right in to get it
<shauno> I saw one recently with a transformer pulled out of microwave.  he was spot-welding at 2V
<diddledan> wtf?
<diddledan> you're all insane
<diddledan> that's not entertainment!
<ali1234> AlanBell: yeah that was my favourite part
<diddledan> that's suicide on tv
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: but if that's not entertainment, I don't know what is
<diddledan> here, let me record my own death..
<penguin42> AlanBell: My dad's building a 3.5Kv PSU at the moment, the transformer ways a good few kg
<AlanBell> diddledan: well not really, the TV version of water based electrocution is a lot more dramatic than reality
<ali1234> seriously though, you probably only need about 50-100A of 5V
<AlanBell> so, I am starting to think that the comedy spider of 4 ways and lots of transformers isn't entirely insane
<AlanBell> compared to 50A of anything :)
<penguin42> AlanBell: PC power supply, easy
<mgdm> ali1234: got a link?
<diddledan> yeah and if you start at 240V at 13A and take it down to 5V you probably do have a pretty sizeable current
<diddledan> I forget the actual maths
<ali1234> mgdm: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dcrY59nGxBg&feature=youtube_gdata_player
<shauno> just (240/5)*13A I think
<penguin42> AlanBell: There's a trivial thing to get PC power supplies to boot up without a PC attached; if you want to spread she load nicely get some 12v-5v converters
<shauno> and throw some of the required switches on the 12V rail.  1A @ 12V is normal for a 8-port dumb switch
<MartijnVdS> car batteries!
<penguin42> Lemons!
<MartijnVdS> + some 12V->5V regulators
<mgdm> ali1234: eeeep
<shauno> the great thing is PC supplies don't actually assume a huge load on the 12V rail.  they provide it because some people have some idiotic gpu requirements, but they can't assume it
<penguin42> shauno: Yeh I've got a modern PC that takes 18W total
<MartijnVdS> shauno: modern CPUs also require more 12V
<AlanBell> so, if I start with a 4 way, and plug in 2 4 ways, then plug in 8 4ways into those I get 32 sockets (and 2 left over)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Evening all.
<AlanBell> cost of that is Â£33
<ali1234> yeha but you hav to buy 32 5V adapters
<TheOpenSourcerer> Anyone know of a tool I could run on one of our servers on the internet to provide me with a dynamic dns for *my* domain name?
<TheOpenSourcerer> At home
<TheOpenSourcerer> I moved to BT recently and lost my static IP
<AlanBell> then 32 USB charger things, at Â£5/pop is Â£160
<ali1234> AlanBell: just get a couple of these: http://www.rapidonline.com/Electrical-Power/TDK-Lambda-LS200-5-Chassis-Mount-Power-Supply-51-4227
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: yes, multiple
<AlanBell> TheOpenSourcerer: you might be able to run the ddns thing on your router
<TheOpenSourcerer> Cool - linky linky link MartijnVdS?
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: let me look
<shauno> one I was looking at recently though, is how to distribute it once you get it out the psu.  I figured micro-usb pigtails because they're easy  (motherboard-header to microusb cables for a $1 each). and those headers are a 0.1" pitch which is nice and easy
<TheOpenSourcerer> AlanBell: It's a BT Home Hub 4.
<TheOpenSourcerer> :-(
<AlanBell> I like that ali1234
<ali1234> they also have 5V/12V dual rail ones
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: https://wiki.debian.org/DDNS
<shauno> but then I realised that 30 some of those headers down a veroboard is probably going to melt
<AlanBell> !info dyndns
<lubotu3> dyndns (source: dyndns): dynamic DNS (DDNS) update client implemented in Perl. In component universe, is optional. Version 2012.0112-1 (quantal), package size 64 kB, installed size 257 kB
<AlanBell> !info ddns3-client
<lubotu3> ddns3-client (source: ddns3-client): Issues dynamic DNS v3 requests. In component universe, is optional. Version 1.8-12 (quantal), package size 18 kB, installed size 85 kB
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: that's the client bit, he wants to run it on his own domain (= servers, presumably)
<AlanBell> aah, so you want lordies to point to a ddns domain . . .
<shauno> I'd be lazy and use a regular dynamic-dns provider and just put a cname on my own domain.  let someone else worry about running a public-facing dns server with next-to-no ttl
<TheOpenSourcerer> Yes - I guess so.
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: nah, just read the debian wiki page I linked to :)
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: it's possible with plain bind
<AlanBell> if you host your own DNS
<TheOpenSourcerer> Yeah - I just want to be able to type ssh alan@lordies.co.uk and get home.
<TheOpenSourcerer> for example
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: that's going to be hard. What about "home.lordies.co.uk"
<TheOpenSourcerer> That's OK.
<TheOpenSourcerer> The MX records or on Google anyway.
<diddledan> it's only going to be hard if you want lordies.co.uk to also point at a server somewhere
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: where's the DNS?
<diddledan> i.e. impossible
<TheOpenSourcerer> We don;t have one.
<diddledan> if lordies.co.uk is entirely dedicated to being the home address then it's fine to use the tld
<TheOpenSourcerer> I don't really want to run bind if I can help it.
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: DNS is being run *somewhere*
<TheOpenSourcerer> By the domain registrar
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: check if they do DDNS :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> :-)
<AlanBell> ali1234: that thing is fanless too, which is nice
<shauno> seriously.  home.lordies.co.uk. IN CNAME lordies.dyndns.com.
<MartijnVdS> that's probably the easiest
<shauno> if you don't have bind under your beck and call already, it's .. incredibly sane
<diddledan> do dyndns still do freebie hosts?
<MartijnVdS> Not easily (you have to log in every other week on the web site) but some others still do
<diddledan> I know I can still get them because I donated way back before they went commercial
<shauno> no idea, it was the only one that sprang to mind.  but the same concept will work with any provider
<shauno> I just give names to my v6 addresses.  my home isn't static but my tunnel is :)
<diddledan> do you have a tunnel on your mac?
<shauno> on my router
<diddledan> I mean, once you're away from home the chances of getting a v6 trends to 0
<DJones> I think the login for dyndns is every 30 days for me with a free account, I get an email reminder about a week before
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: teredo
<diddledan> MartijnVdS: doesn't your supplier need to support that?
<shauno> well, if I'm on my laptop, I rarely have something at home to ssh *to* :)
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: no
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: it just needs to not block it ;)
<shauno> but yeah, that's why I didn't suggest it.  just explaining why I don't use dyndns & such.  what I have is sufficient that I can scp fromvps laptop:, or scp ididn'tdownloadthat.mov tv:
 * MartijnVdS has a static IPv4, a static v6 subnet and 100/100
<MartijnVdS> Come to .nl y'all ;)
<diddledan> bar steward
<diddledan> nl sucks
<shauno> my v4 isn't static, but it is a 28 day dhcp lease.  so I have no realworld issues unless my router's off for more than a month
<diddledan> because I'm not there!
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: well, get over here ;)
<diddledan> MartijnVdS: find me a job
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: what skills do you have?
<shauno> diddledan: do it!  it's a magical place.  they don't look at you strange for putting mayo on chips
<diddledan> o_O
<diddledan> MartijnVdS: I'm a wordpress implementer by trade
<diddledan> i.e. custom programming theming etc
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: that's a narrow skillset ;)
<diddledan> indeed
<mgdm> mayo on chips is pretty good actually
<diddledan> php dev would be the all encompussing
<MartijnVdS> it is
<shauno> oh it is.  that's why I liked that they actually encourage it.  here I get the "you realise that's not ketchup" stare
<mgdm> I know loads of PHP folk in .nl... :)
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: PHP devs are sought-after, I just left a PHP dev job (after just one month. Because the company culture sucked)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Nope - Domain company sucks. I knew there was a reason why I hadn't logged in to them for some time...
<diddledan> lol
<AlanBell> TheOpenSourcerer: can you do a cname thing on it?
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: move to gandi.net -> http://groups.gandi.net/en/topic/gandi.en.api/3435
<diddledan> you can pay me to manage it
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: oh wait
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: according tot he FAQ they dont
<TheOpenSourcerer> Yeah - I might just get something on NoIP
<TheOpenSourcerer> and cname to it.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Apparently free for up to 3 hostnames
<AlanBell> shove it on the godaddy account with all the rest
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: godaddy is baaaad
<AlanBell> yeah, I know
<AlanBell> works though
<penguin42> AlanBell: The Pis can be USB powered can't they? So I suggest http://www.cambrionix.com/components/large-capacity-49-port-charge-and-sync-station-professional-series-a6/
<mgdm> I've never had much success doing it that way
<diddledan> penguin42: that looks expensive
<penguin42> diddledan: Compared to Alan's plan of 32 USB charger things and adapters?
<penguin42> diddledan: I mean it's overkill in the sense he doesn't need it to actually be a USB hub
<shauno> I do worry about the pricing on anything that has "call us" prices though
<penguin42> yeh, it's a small Cambridge company - might be worth showing them what you're planning on using it for
<mgdm> wait, i thought you meant powered off the usb port, backfeeding
<mgdm> <-- eejit
<penguin42> mgdm: I *do*
<penguin42> mgdm: It's a 49 port USB hub
<mgdm> penguin42: why not use the micro USB power input with that then?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Thanks chaps. Gone for free NoIP ddns. Will attack the cname tomorrow. Need beer now but at least I can now get to my home again...
<penguin42> mgdm: Yeh that's what I mean
<shauno> backfeeding is squirting voltage in through the regular usb ports the pi has
<ali1234> it's powered by micro usb normally anyway
<shauno> which when I write it like that, sounds stupid.  but it works!
<shauno> eg, the Y cables that come with a lot of harddrives.  put one of the A ends in the pi, the other A end in the power supply, and the tail end in whatever device you're hooking up.  powers both devices off the supply
<ali1234> i bet if you check the schematic, all the 5V are just tied together anyway
<penguin42> ali1234: That would be a little naughty on USB
<shauno> they're not, oddly.  there's some odd catches.  if you send 5v in over the gpio, it bypasses the softfuse on the microusb input
<penguin42> powering over GPIO - yeuch
<shauno> well, the 5v pin that's on that header, not on a line that's meant for IO
<ali1234> i checked it
<ali1234> the 5V on the USB port and the GPIO are directly connected
<shauno> the microusb port? or the host ports
<ali1234> the 5V on the micro USB is also connected but is protected with a polyfuse
<mgdm> not sure the GPIO one would handle the power? might have a narrower trace?
<penguin42> Thinkgeek have a 24port USB powered hub for $89
<penguin42> sorry! $49
<ali1234> http://hackaday.com/2012/09/04/problems-powering-raspberry-pi-from-gpio-header/ yes, the gpio trace is too thin
<ali1234> penguin42: but how much current can it supply?
<shauno> it doesn't say what power on 24 ports though.  pulling 700-750 instead of 500 is going to add up
<ali1234> espeically when you power the whole lot on
<ali1234> i bet it spikes to like 1.5A
<penguin42> ali1234: Yeh I'd wonder about that; I'd bet the cambridge guys have a suitable PSU on theirs, I wouldn't bet on that Thinkgeek one - it doesn't say
<ali1234> i would just get a proper PSU and make up a splitter cable
<shauno> I'd be more optimistic about the cambridge one too, since they describe it for charging, rather than desk-tidying
<shauno> I still like my idea of n many motherboard headers on a veroboard.  you'll just need to spine a thicker wire down it rather than hoping the copper doesn't glow
<diddledan> https://scontent-a-lhr.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/1455144_10153474192260228_1042663181_n.jpg
<shauno> you might even just want perfboard and start off with no copper
<diddledan> aparently that's fan art
<diddledan> someone dun goof'd
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: a pirate, yes
<AlanBell> penguin42: yeah, the cambironix stuff is good but Â£Â£Â£ as they sell to schools and all real suppliers to schools are super expensive
<penguin42> AlanBell: Might be worth pointing them at your project and asking
<penguin42> AlanBell: It is overkill as well since you really don't need the actual USB function
<AlanBell> http://www.amazon.co.uk/DS-C-Series8-Cambrionix-Series8/dp/B00FJYL67S/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1383855078&sr=8-1&keywords=cambrionix
<shauno> I figure something like this is going to save a whole lot of work; http://www.ebay.ie/itm/390669595873
<AlanBell> how?
<AlanBell> I do like the proper 5V psu ali1234 pointed at http://www.rapidonline.com/Electrical-Power/TDK-Lambda-LS200-5-Chassis-Mount-Power-Supply-51-4227
<shauno> well, two rows of 0.1" headers is easy to solder.  and not gonna cost more than 32 regular cables
<shauno> assuming you start off with one big 5V source rather than something with 32 usb outlets, you've got to turn that 5V into 32 microusb plugs.  which is going to be messy
<AlanBell> lots of USB surface mount sockets
<shauno> and 32 usb cables.  that's why I figure the headers will be easier & cheaper :)  but yeah.  backseat driving is easy
<penguin42> AlanBell: If you do get that just be a little careful - 40A at 5v would do a bit of damage - e.g. if you have any rings take them off
<AlanBell> indeed
<AlanBell> shauno: usb cables are cheap
<shauno> it's mostly just a lazy option
<AlanBell> there are two types of lazyness, pure and applied
<shauno> usb sockets bug me.  they don't have a hobbyist-friendly dot pitch - the two datapins are closer together
<AlanBell> like maths
<AlanBell> applied lazyness is what engineering is all about
<diddledan> shauno: try usb3 plugs/sockets - they have weird extra bits
<AlanBell> shauno: true, however datapins are not much of an issue, the power pins are the only things we need to wire up
<shauno> it still makes them awkward to board
<shauno> if you look some up, you'll find spades coming down each side of the socket itself (for structural support & grounding), the outer power pins on one dot pitch, and the inner data pins on a different dotpitch
<shauno> which is fair enough if you're going to get a board knocked up for them.  but rules out using spare chunks of perfboard, which I tend to
<AlanBell> yeah, the component cost just goes up too
<shauno> so it just became a lazy (but not daft) idea based on perfboard & pin headers being the kinda thing I actually have laying around
<AlanBell> ok, so pins to microusb does cut out the USB socket problem nicely, yes
<AlanBell> putting 40A down a perfboard rail sounds inadvisable
<shauno> yeah.  I'm not sure I'd do it in one chunk
<shauno> ie, if I was using a PC supply, I'd take the wires intended to run to harddrives, and each one down a block of 8 pins  (running the wire from pin to pin ,rather than using copper traces on the board)
<shauno> they tend to have plenty of wires hanging off them, so may as well use them for distribution
<novine7> Anyone still here?
<MartijnVdS> nah, we're all sleeping
<MartijnVdS> Ssssh! :)
<novine7> Okay
<MartijnVdS> !ask
<lubotu3> Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line and in the channel, so that others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-) See also !patience
<novine7> I sleep-type
<AlanBell> people are talking about 0.5A as stripboard max current, fairly sure it would go higher than that, but that won't do a power rail for lots of pis
<diddledan> novine7: are you using a bouncer?
<shauno> oh I don't mean using the strips at all.  I'm not sure I'd even want boards with strips, since I don't know how many amps you need to start worrying about jumping to the next trace
<diddledan> novine7: I only ask because you didn't part/join and an entire 26 seconds before you asked if anyone was still here someone had said something which kinda indicates that there wasn't
<penguin42> AlanBell: http://www.coolerguys.com/840556096177.html
<diddledan> wasn't anyone still here**
<novine7> what's a bouncer
<diddledan> shoudl that be "weren't"?
<diddledan> novine7: psybnc is a popular one and the only one I can think of right now
<AlanBell> shauno: yeah, I was just curious what stripboard would do
<novine7> I just got back to my laptop, wasn't sure how old the messages were
<novine7> about sleeptyping: http://xkcd.com/269/
<diddledan> novine7: you need to turn on the timestamp :-)
<novine7> how to do that in xchat?
<shauno> AlanBell: at 30A, it'd probably glow for a short amount of time.  very short.
<AlanBell> shauno: it would be pretty though :)
<novine7> <diddledan> how do i get a timestamp in xchat?
<diddledan> novine7: it's in the settings somewhere
<novine7> It's ok, im googling it
<shauno> trying to find a picture of the technique I mean.  you pretty much just lay the cable down the pins so it's resting on all of them, and then solder judiciously
<novine7> I think it's working now
<novine7> yes!
<novine7> Fun terminal command: cmatrix
<novine7> Even better when you go into a tty console and run it!
<shauno> try 'bb' ;)
<novine7> what does that do?
<MartijnVdS> try 'sl'
<novine7> oh yeah, every time i mistype ls!
<MartijnVdS> novine7: apt-get install sl
<MartijnVdS> novine7: you'll stop mistyping quickly
<novine7> No, I already have sl
<novine7> i love mistyping.
<shauno> bb is another ascii-art demo.  like the matrix one, but with more meat
<novine7> I even wrote a script what prints I Like Trains, when WEEEE, then runs sl
<novine7> wtf?? running bb now
<MartijnVdS> novine7: have you noticed how the train changes based on command-line options?
<novine7> i use -a with everything
<novine7> BECAUSE I LIKE WATCHING THEM SCREEEAAAAM
<novine7> omg space raiders bit is so cool
<AlanBell> I wonder what the efficiency of a regular mains to microusb power supply is
<novine7> quite bad i imagine
<diddledan> 85%?
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: send an email to That Crazy Aussie Bloke, ask him if he'll help you design a proper power supply ;)
<novine7> still a better effiency than a light bulb
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: http://www.eevblog.com/ that one :)
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: He's open-source friendly
<AlanBell> it can't be that bad because they are mass produced and they don't want them to get hot
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: 5V/1A = 5W; 5W / 230V = 0.022A
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: measure power use of a wall wart. The further above 0.022A it is, the less efficient it is :)
<diddledan> OR the more inefficient it is :-p
<AlanBell> yeah, just looking for my power meter
<diddledan> swings and roundabouts
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: XOR even
<shauno> or just find someone who's already put way too much work into such ;)  http://www.righto.com/2012/10/a-dozen-usb-chargers-in-lab-apple-is.html
<diddledan> one man's terrorist is another's patriot
<popey> evening
<madfish> didn't Southampton Uni already put together a Pi Cluster?
<novine7> diddledan: exactly
<novine7> evening popey
<shauno> I'm really tempted to try this now :(  wondering what learning MPI could actually be useful for
<diddledan> I've always preferred SSI clustering, but I think that's just because it was the first one I came across
<AlanBell> madfish: yes, and they went with the comedy spider wires for power
<AlanBell> http://www.southampton.ac.uk/~sjc/raspberrypi/pi_supercomputer_southampton.htm
<penguin42> lego++
<madfish> AlanBell: that's the one. Could go for a 12v dc two core wire 'main'(I've 50ft going spare) with 1 5V LDO regulator per Pi
<diddledan> someone had to do it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-_J2po3i0U
<AlanBell> heh, good way to slow down your network
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: I think there's an openwrt port (either available or in the works)
<AlanBell> well it outran his broadband I guess
<shauno> I feel kinda dirty now, but 'touch malloc.h' turns out to be a surprisingly easy way to fix a build
<penguin42> yeuch
<diddledan> I can't imagine a Â£25 generic computing device would be better at networking than a bespoke Â£100 dedicated device
<penguin42> diddledan: Do you know what's in that #100 dedicated device?
<diddledan> shauno:!
<diddledan> penguin42: no
<AlanBell> especially when dealing with two network cards connected via USB
<diddledan> penguin42: it's a mikrotik device that I use
<penguin42> diddledan: Probably a similar CPU, there's no special networking hardware in most of them
<penguin42> the mikrotik's are probalby a little better
<ali1234> soho routers are nearly all mips
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: some broadcom SOCs now have ARM in them
<shauno> I used a pi as a router for almost a month.  3g dongle->pi->ethernet->regular WAP/router
<ali1234> and they have an ethernet switch if they have more than 1 port
<ali1234> actually, probably even if they don't
<penguin42> ali1234: I think some have two ethers and a switch on one of the ports
<ali1234> yes, usually you have wan and then lan to a hw switch
<shauno> most switching is done in asics
<ali1234> but any or none of that can be exposed of course
<MartijnVdS> some routers have hardware offloading for NAT operations now
<penguin42> shauno: Not on the low end stuff
<MartijnVdS> but unpatched kernels can't use those chips
<MartijnVdS> and patches are UG-LAY
<MartijnVdS> well those in particular
<ali1234> yeah, even in the low end stuff the switch is an asic
<penguin42> ali1234: sorry, the L2 stuff? Yeh that's just a switch chip
<shauno> especially low end, it's cheaper than a cpu that can handle it
<ali1234> you can tell this because the switch still works even if you wipe the cpu firmware with jtag
<penguin42> it's actually hard to find ARM chips with >2 network ports
<shauno> I'm really tempted to write a malloc.h that just does #include <stdlib.h>.  that'll just silently fix everything(tm)
<MartijnVdS> shauno: write a malloc.h that just prints "NO" every time someone tries to malloc
<shauno> it's provided by stdlib on osx.  but I keep finding things that just don't allow for that.  I pulled it out of 10 or 12 files before I just got bored and did 'touch malloc.h' in the source root this time
<shauno> and honestly, it's a horrible word.  there's only so many times you can put it in a sentence before it feels like a scene from Being John Malkovich
<MartijnVdS> shauno: â« We all live in a Windows subroutine
<novine7> #We all live in a windows subroutine, a windows subroutine, a windows subroutine
<ali1234> __stdcall or cdecl?
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: livin' la vie d'alloca(3) ?
<novine7> so many people joining!
<diddledan> c'mon everyone get a grep
<novine7> haha very punny
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: (Vanilla) Skype Skype Baby
<novine7> dun dun dun da doodoodoodooo
<shauno> spanish exchange students have ruined that one for me.  they prounce the E.  like skypie
<MartijnVdS> shauno: jajaja
<novine7> that's german
<novine7> spannish is si
<diddledan> shauno: pie? as in pi?
<MartijnVdS> novine7: "jajaja" is how Spanish speakers write "hahaha"
<diddledan> sky-pi?
<MartijnVdS> pi in the sky?
<shauno> the french do jejeje too.  I sent 'hahaha' in a sms once and got grilled on it.  "what is thees .. khe khe khe?"
<MartijnVdS> powering some kind of quadcopter/drone type thing?
<MartijnVdS> shauno: kekeke
<novine7> MartijnVdS: oh, sorry
<shauno> we already have ardupilot for that :)
<novine7> BYE BYE
<novine7> GOODNIGHT
<novine7> BIG BANG THEORY ON NOW
<diddledan> o_O
<shauno> dobrÃº noc!
<diddledan> I really need to do some work
<MartijnVdS> shauno: your UTF-8 is broken
<diddledan> works for me
<shauno> hm
<MartijnVdS> I see a ?
<diddledan> MartijnVdS: sure it's not yours?
<shauno> you see a y or a u ?
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: â
<MartijnVdS> shauno: I see "dobr<?> noc!"
<diddledan> I see dobrÃº noc
<shauno> I was curious what dan sees, there's multiple ways to break utf :)
<diddledan> u
<diddledan> with a Â´above it
<MartijnVdS> iso-8859-[wrong X]
<MartijnVdS> ?
<shauno> sometimes my Ãº shows as Ã½ :(
<diddledan> ergh
<diddledan> that's nassy
<diddledan> slap it
<diddledan> then be a man and complain that slapping is for girls
<shauno> (I assume those two worked?  I rarely have an issue with this client)
<diddledan> yeah
<diddledan> they were fine
<shauno> you don't help, you saw it right the first time :p
<diddledan> heh
<shauno> so it's going wrong somewhere between iterm & screen.  fun
<diddledan> not if I'm seeing it correct it's not
<diddledan> otherwise how could I see it correctly?
<shauno> well, you're special
<diddledan> my mum said that to my teachers
<shauno> actually, you're on OSX too?  I could be doing something that's broken in a way that OSX understands
<shauno> which would allow me to blame my tools, like any good workman
<diddledan> erm. but you're typing into iterm through screen onto irssi .. on linux
<shauno> I'm typing on osx into iterm on osx onto screen on linux into irssi on linux :)
<diddledan> iterm is surely reading osx's keymap and converting it into a linux keymap
<shauno> and the only desktop I have to remove this variable, has a broken SLIP config and no UTF at all
<shauno> it's not a keymap on a term, you just send characters
<diddledan> exactly!
<diddledan> and when it gets to the other end you're seeing it correclty
<diddledan> if it was broken surely you'd send the right character and then read the wrong one
<shauno> what if the characters I'm sending are an osx-fumble?  so they display here and there because we're osx-fumble-compatible
<diddledan> my brian hurts
<diddledan> in unrelated news, facebook wants me to be an android beta tester
<shauno> firing up a VM.  I'm gonna go stick all 3 of me in a channel and have a fiddle
<diddledan> kinky
<ali1234> actually there's several points in a typical terminal session where random stuff can get translated
<ali1234> each one can be enabled or disabled in a variety of interesting combinations that don't make any sense
<shauno> I have :utf-8 on in screen & term_charset = = utf-8 in irssi.  and iterm claims its using utf8 too :/
<ali1234> it's nowhere near as simple as that
<diddledan> what's ssh using?
<shauno> it's a start :)
<diddledan> and bash on your host
<diddledan> and bash on the remote host
<shauno> bash is using en_GB.UTF-8, at both ends
<ali1234> i have a test app somewhere that tells you exactly what it is receiving
<diddledan> fred
<shauno> okay, VM foiled .. I have no idea how to type accents in gnome
<ali1234> it is usually suprisingly different to what you actually typed
<diddledan> I type bert and it comes out as fred
<shauno> diddledan: bedtime
<diddledan> :-p
<diddledan> you do have a point, however
<shauno> okay, this is fun.  whatever irssi is using to read characters, and whatever its using to display them, are showing different things
<shauno> if I type alt',e I see <?><?> on the input line, but see as I expect in the channel
<shauno> if I hit the up cursor to do it again, I then see the correct character in the input line
<diddledan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=qFT5YJfrmCQ
<shauno> MartijnVdS: I'm blaming you for pointing this out.
<ali1234> diddledan: oh come on. that's got to be the shortest lecture ever - "they just make it up as they go along. the end"
<shauno> they input correct in bash. hm.
<shauno> heh .. how do I follow links in gnome-terminal?
<diddledan> well the D.REAM bloke thinks otherwise enough to have convinced the beeb to let him make a tv programme
<diddledan> perhaps he's spent too long in the quantum world he's got confused between reality and an entangled version of reality that is exactly opposite
<shauno> ah moot point, iceweasel won't play video because webvideo hates freedom
<diddledan> no way is he 45 tho
<diddledan> he's surely about 15
<diddledan> he looks about 12, but I'm guessing he looks younger than he really is so is probably about 15
<shauno> you'd never know I used gnome for years.  I'm mostly just staring at it thinking ....?
<diddledan> shauno: gnome 3?
<diddledan> shauno: if so then don't worry it's broken by design
<shauno> I want to guess so, since I used to be able to find the version in 2.x (in the Help menu)
<shauno> its now a closely-guarded secret
<diddledan> the gnome guys took an ok desktop and threw out everything that sort of worked and shoe horned in a load of rubbish nobody knew they wanted and ended up with .. well.. you're looking at it
<diddledan> by ok, I mean average
<diddledan> aka meh
<shauno> and the panel doesn't have a context menu either
<diddledan> that's because it's not a panel
<diddledan> psyc!
<diddledan> as I said, they threw out what sort of worked, and that includes the panels
<shauno> http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_ELFl2_1q7DI/TObn1HnV2fI/AAAAAAAAAaQ/5JkvAtpbv7k/s320/Not_sure_if_serious.jpg
<diddledan> lol
<ali1234> you want xfce
<diddledan> really, he wants anything that isn't gnome
<shauno> no no .. what I have isn't gnome
<shauno> I wonder if garnome still works
<ali1234> nah, you don't want kde
<shauno> okay, running gnome-panel in a shell tells me it's already running.  so this is a panel?!
<diddledan> a panel by any other name would be as useless
<ali1234> hold alt and right click
<diddledan> maybe I'm being too harsh?
<diddledan> HAH, as if!
<shauno> ahhh
<shauno> okay, gnome-terminal has an About entry at least, and that's 3.4.1.1.  so it seems this is gnome 3
<shauno> I'm not entirely sure why Debian would do this
<ali1234> do what?
<shauno> replace gnome with this
<ali1234> can you just show a screenshot? then i'll tell you exactly what it is
<shauno> heh .. good question
<diddledan> task: find the screenshot tool
<ali1234> you're running it in a vm...
<diddledan> time allowed: 15 minutes
<diddledan> chances of success: nil
<ali1234> in fact making screenshot is easy in gnome 3
<ali1234> you just press print screen
<ali1234> the hard part is finding where it saved it to
<shauno> I'm on a mac.  there's a very pretty speaker where you're expecting a print screen key
<diddledan> surely if you can't find it then the cat might still be dead
<ali1234> lol silly mac users
<diddledan> damn you schrÃ¶dinger
<shauno> http://oneil.me.uk/2013-11-07-220941_1680x1050_scrot.png
<shauno> well under 15 minutes.  booyah
<ali1234> yeah that's gnome-panel
<ali1234> with an incredibly ugly theme
<ali1234> and no bottom panel
<shauno> I'm surprised there's a theme.  this is quite an old install
<shauno> I've been looking for where you change that, but ..
<ali1234> gnome-tweak-tool
<ali1234> seriously tho, just install xfce, it's better
<ali1234> xfce, ubuntu-mono-light icons, orion theme - looks good
<ali1234> and droid sans 11
<ali1234> oh and lock dpi to 96 with "slight" hinting
<ali1234> for some reason my monitor reports resolution:    93x95 dots per inch
<ali1234> this is probaly correct but it really messes with the font rendering and makes everything look awful
<shauno>   dimensions:    1680x1050 pixels (445x278 millimeters)
<shauno>   resolution:    96x96 dots per inch
<shauno> nice thing about vmware, it can tell the perfect lies
<shauno> I've a feeling I'll get slapped for this, but is there a way to push the icons to the correct side?
<ali1234> which icons?
<ali1234> like close/minimize?
<ali1234> yes: gnome-tweak-tool
<ali1234> if you can't do it with gnome-tweak-tool, it cannot be done
<ali1234> that's pretty much all you need to know about gnome-panel 3
<shauno> hm, I can't find that in gnome-tweak-tool.  or moving the desktop icons to the other side  lol
<shauno> it's a bit weird to get used to the fact linux desktops are written for windows users
<ali1234> well, it's gconf-editor then
<ali1234> seriously though, xfce has proper configuration panels for all this stuff
<shauno> which sounds like I'm trying to be a pest, but I know what I mean.  there's a lot of things that only make sense because people are used to them from 'elsewhere'
<ali1234> you can even have them in a "settings" menu right on the panel
<shauno> oh I'm in xfce now
<ali1234> well in that case it's in settings->window manager
<shauno> okay, now I look like an idiot.  I was looking in window manager tweaks
<ali1234> i don't really know why they are two different panels tbh
<shauno> seems it won't right-align desktop icons, but it will turn them off completely, which is just as good
<ali1234> yeah i have them turned off
<ali1234> i never even see the desktop anyway
<shauno> ah, I come from the "maximize button is a running joke" land
<shauno> okay, this could work.  and the task switcher is back in the top bar again, which is why I always deleted the bottom panel in gnome2
<ali1234> yeah. you can move it of course
<shauno> well I usually had it in the top.  and the bottom bar just became some strange exercise in keeping the desktop switcher around
<shauno> which is why logging into the desktop and finding the top panel empty just threw me for a loop
<ali1234> https://plus.google.com/117474986382867317779/posts/9B1izdYHNwR
<ali1234> one thing i particularly love is that the "settings manager"/control panel style thing actually uses xdg .desktop standard correctly, so you can pass it to the menu widget and get the same thing we used to have in gnome, with no extra effort at all
<ali1234> unlike the gnome one, which is just a bunch of crazy hacks
<shauno> this VM rarely has a screen.  it's normally just ssh -x for things that are just a pain to build on osx
<shauno> or just plain broken under osx, like the tool for reprogramming my radio.  for some reason, that keys down transmit and holds it there under osx
<ali1234> that's pretty weird
<ali1234> and you'd think fixing it would be a priority
<shauno> you'd hope
<shauno> I haven't looked into it much, because I'm not licenced.  so as soon as the light goes red I pull the cable
<ali1234> can't you just unplug the antenna?
<ali1234> would that even stop it broadcasting?
<shauno> it'd stop it being as effective.  I'm not sure I'd trust it though
<ali1234> get some tinfoil...
<shauno> ideally you'd just sink it into a dummy load, but so far it's been much easier to just give it to vmware instead
<shauno> well, "ideally" it wouldn't do it in the first place, but that's life
<penguin42> ali1234: Did you manage to get sutff compiled last night?
<ali1234> no.
<ali1234> turns out qemu is quite buggy
<ali1234> also even with user mode it is probably not going to be faster than a pi
<penguin42> ali1234: Yeh I said it was marginal; what bugs were you hitting out of interest?
<ali1234> basically coreutils configure was still running after half an hour, and then it froze at a specific test every time
<ali1234> it's something to do with multithreaded libs and race conditions
<ali1234> the linaro qemu claims to have a fix for the exact problem, but it did not help
<penguin42> right, yes multithreaded stuff isn't fun
<ali1234> coreutils took 2 hours to build on popey's real pi
<ali1234> if qemu was still configuring after half an hour i don't expect it would beat that
<penguin42> hmm, that depends - the 'configure' stage is slowest in user mode emulation, because you have to start an emulator process for each of the zillions of shell programs configure uses
<ali1234> yeah, true
<ali1234> but of course, it's the only part you really need to emulate
<ali1234> since the actual build can be done with cross compilers
<ali1234> i was also moaning about how configure tests the same things over and over pointlessly
<ali1234> like, how likely is it that my system doesn't have pipe?
<ali1234> and why do you need to test for it three times?
<penguin42> yeh I think there is some caching process for configure these days but I can't remember where
<penguin42> ali1234: Normally because there are separate configure or package builds
<ali1234> no, caching was disabled by default since like 2003
<ali1234> too dangerous apparently, because nobody ever uses the same macro names
<ali1234> i'm sure all those individual tests for one function could be replaced by having a single flag "this is a sane system"
<penguin42> ali1234: Yeh a lot of stuff should be included by 'this is a Linux system and it's after 2000'
<penguin42> ali1234: But scarily people do still run non-linux systems that are truly odd
#ubuntu-uk 2013-11-08
<shauno> if your qemu host can't get past a specific test, doesn't that prove that "it's 2013" isn't a valid test?
<penguin42> shauno: No, it's qemu multithreading that's the bug
<shauno> it's still created a build root that isn't usable though
<shauno> I do wish autoconf had some idea how modern distros worked though.  it could use something like that 'command not found' hook that ubuntu uses, rather than print out a header file it couldn't find
<penguin42> shauno: cnf only does commands as far as I'm aware, apt-file can find headers although there can be multiple answers and I don't think there is much cross-distro - although I think there are some packagekit hooks
<shauno> I'm not sure it really needs to be cross distro
<shauno> eg, bash4 provides the command_not_found_handle.  if it's not set, it reverts to its default behaviour.  that's a sane model
<shauno> let each distro ship their own handlers for that, and fall back to pretending its the 80s if it's unavailable
<shauno> just feels like there has to be a better answer than just printing "...no"
<penguin42> hmm where did that net conenction go
<MooDoo> morning all
<shauno> o/
<MooDoo> I see everyone is going nuts over https://fixubuntu.com/
<jussi> MooDoo: I honestly dont care (and dont think canonical have a case, as its clearly in the fair use domain)
<MooDoo> jussi: me neither to be honest, just makes me laugh how people go so overboard.
<jussi> MooDoo: ++
<MooDoo> domain issue aside, if you don't like feature of the dashboard disable it....no need for the "i'm moving to fedora/debian" diatribe that i've been seeing.
<MooDoo> climbs off soapbox ;)
<jussi> MooDoo: ++ (again)
<jussi> see, for me, I just use Kubuntu
<jussi> (although, I do like the unity menu thing,  even with amazon, and Id love to see a port that works on kubuntu)
<MooDoo> to be honest canonical can do what they want with their os, 1 it's theirs, and 1, its opensource, if you don't like stuff remove it or disable it....simples....
<shauno> I must admit that approach makes me uneasy.  if anyone else did it, people would be crying blue murder
<MooDoo> Still think it's overkill :D but then again, it's one way of getting people to your site ;)
<shauno> I guess I have almost the polar opposite view on it.  I think selling privacy for adbucks is overkill, and find myself with less trust in canonical than I do apple or microsoft
<MooDoo> yeah it's crap, it should be opt-in not opt out
<jussi> mind, we all do pretty much the same thign everyday when we search with google
<MooDoo> yeah, I just think people want something else to moan about :)
<shauno> would it be 'moaning' if anyone else at all did it?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Morning all.
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: but how long before they REMOVE the ability to disable the featuer?!
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: good morning, how's your crowdfunding campaign going?
<TheOpenSourcerer> OK :-D
<TheOpenSourcerer> http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/a-raspberry-pi-build-cluster-for-ubuntu/x/5292412
<TheOpenSourcerer> That's over 30%
<MartijnVdS> cool!
<TheOpenSourcerer> And it's been running for less that three full days.
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS: gods dammit I'll move to debian ;)
<diplo> Morning all
<MooDoo> morning diplo
<shauno> MooDoo: I already am.  I've gone from 6 ubuntu machines, to 5 debian machines and 1 ubuntu.  and the last one will move when I can no longer get updates for 10.04
<MooDoo> shauno: how come you moved?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Ahh - I remember 10:10 desktop with great fondness. Reckon that the was the best, most stable release evah.
<shauno> because canonical have done almost nothing I can agree with in years.  taking an honest stab at the phone might have been the only plus point
<MooDoo> shauno: fair enough :)
<MooDoo> shauno: how you finding debian?  like the gnome interface?
 * jussi is still on Kubuntu - it nice :)
<shauno> heh, I actually just discovered a VM had been upgraded to gnome3 last night.  that was awkward
<AlanBell> I quite liked gnome shell when I was using it
<AlanBell> but Unity in 13.10 is mostly OK
<AlanBell> the dash is still annoying, I don't like the way all the icons move about as you try to click on them
<jussi> AlanBell: true, that bit is annoying
<TheOpenSourcerer> I just really don't like the global menu. I mean WTF? I have a small gedit window open, or nautilus. And I have to traverse the entire screen to get to the bloody menu? It's just a stupid idea.
<AlanBell> because different scopes keep adding results, so super, "plu" gives me a google plus web link icon, for about a second, then the files and folders scope moves it down and I click on the "plugins" folder
<AlanBell> and I don't like the global menu, that is just a copy of a fail
<jussi> TheOpenSourcerer: HUD?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Never use it. Can't get the hang of it.
<AlanBell> HUD is a reasonable concept, but I never use it
<MartijnVdS> I've even disabled the hotkey because I kept opening it by accident
<AlanBell> abstracting menu options into a common API is a good thing, but there should be more innovative menu operating things
<AlanBell> like circular menus and so on
<TheOpenSourcerer> And whilst we're on a roll <rant> have you noticed in 13.10 that evince doesn;t do the global menu. You have to click the little cog on the far right of it's window to get at it. lol
<MartijnVdS> that's because Gnome 3 hates menus even more than Unity/Ubuntu does
<TheOpenSourcerer> And nautilus for that matter
<TheOpenSourcerer> So now we have some windows where the menu is up the top and some where it isn't. Great.
<MartijnVdS> complain to the design team
<TheOpenSourcerer> They won't listen - it's not design. It's usability.
<AlanBell> who will remove the menus, because they don't look pretty
<shauno> I've found complaining doesn't actually work.  they have a target user they're aiming for - and they're not linux users
<MooDoo> I suspect this is the time for AlanOS
<TheOpenSourcerer> Has a lovely ring to it don't you think?
<MooDoo> yes
<AlanBell> no
<TheOpenSourcerer> Slightly greek/classical sounding ;-)
<shauno> the first release has to be 'Morissette'  ;)
<TheOpenSourcerer> lol
<TheOpenSourcerer> Very good.
<AlanBell> gosh, someone else got thealans.com thought we had that
<TheOpenSourcerer> lol - nah I let it go when it was up for renewal.
<AlanBell> I approve of the current use though
<AlanBell> first time I have ever seen a lapsed domain go to a non-spammy use
<TheOpenSourcerer> But they have band members not called Alan!!!
<TheOpenSourcerer> And they use that peculiar spelling with 2 ll
<Alan28> does this help?
<TheOpenSourcerer> :-D
<AlanBell> heh
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: you're not an Alan!
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS: I can be....We all can be alans....I plesge allegiance to the alans....;)
<TheOpenSourcerer> If MooDoo want's to be an Alan he can be MartijnVdS
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: \o/
<TheOpenSourcerer> sorry s/want's/wants
<TheOpenSourcerer> How many feel like doing this but never do? https://plus.google.com/u/0/+LizQuilty/posts/9QMq9BNSoLL
<MooDoo> TheOpenSourcerer: i'm doing it now ;)
<TheOpenSourcerer> lol
<popey> Morning.
<TheOpenSourcerer> lo popey
<MooDoo> morning popey
<TheOpenSourcerer> I just learnt about "The Streisand Effect"...
<SuperMatt> hurr
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: you can't stop listening now, can you!
<TheOpenSourcerer> ?
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: Streisand. Horrible music.
<MooDoo> TheOpenSourcerer: it was named after barbara
<MooDoo> the effect that is
<TheOpenSourcerer> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streisand_effect
<TheOpenSourcerer> Fortunately MartijnVdS I know so little of her songs that it's not enough to trigger an earworm.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Unlike AlanBell's link the other week that had me silently humming "Shopping at Lidl's" for days!
<AlanBell> its a cut price shopping wonderland
<TheOpenSourcerer> lol
<TheOpenSourcerer> NOOOOOOOO!
<AlanBell> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RKsGKERivTQ for those not yet initiated
<MartijnVdS> another weekend lost
 * TheOpenSourcerer returns from getting coffee determined NOT to click on AlanBell's Link.
<MooDoo> TheOpenSourcerer: click it, you know you want too...
<TheOpenSourcerer> no.
<TheOpenSourcerer> I can be strong.
<TheOpenSourcerer> I will survive.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Argghhh... Elkie Brooks!
<DJones> Heh, this reminds me of the Only Fools & Horses episode http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-24854508
<TheOpenSourcerer> lol - love the bit of unnecessary padding "After a scuffle in the toilet roll aisle..."
<DJones> Didn't think that bit was really necessary
<TheOpenSourcerer> No it wasn't after i'd read the rest ;-(
<TheOpenSourcerer> Sorry - I think it was fine actually. It was pertinent to the tweet info later on.
<SuperMatt> http://www.supermatt.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/1399717_10153419218185464_671733594_o.jpg got a free new t-shirt last night ;)
<MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: what did you have to give to facebook for that?
<MooDoo> SuperMatt: morning, how'd you get that?
<TheOpenSourcerer> His soul...
<MooDoo> what MartijnVdS said ;)
<MartijnVdS> bank statement history for the past 7 years?
<SuperMatt> just some of my time and attention
<SuperMatt> and maybe I'll send me CV over too
<MartijnVdS> so.. you're a masochist :)
<SuperMatt> oh god no, from what I saw last night, facebook is a fantastic place to work
<MartijnVdS> I've heard it's a bit creepy at times, no work/private life separation allowed or something
<DJones> Must admit, I don't think I'd have posted the link in a logged channel, the photo has been now been copied and its evidence will be held against you for the rest of your life
<MartijnVdS> or "discouraged"
<bashrc> Personally, I wouldn't touch Facebook with the proverbial barge pole
<MooDoo> SuperMatt: think i'd prefer google, rackspace
<awilkins> Google sounds a bit corporate now TBH
<awilkins> 20% time notwithstanding
<bashrc> Google's glory days are over
<awilkins> Valve
<SuperMatt> 20% time is dead
<awilkins> That's where I'd like to work
<directhex> valve is not an easy place to get a job
<awilkins> Valve, where 100% of time is "do what you think you is best" time
<awilkins> Yeah, that's the downside
<MooDoo> awilkins: I read an article about that the other day.
<MooDoo> well I don't know about you guys, but I'd like to work for the alans ;) lol
<awilkins> Being awesome enough to get into Valve, moving to 'merca against my better judgement
<awilkins> Alans?
<awilkins> Alan Sugar?
<MooDoo> awilkins: TheOpenSourcerer and AlanBell
<AlanBell> deed poll is the way forward
<MooDoo> :D
<awilkins> Are they Canonicalites?
<MartijnVdS> Canonicalistas is the preferred term now
<DJones> No, thats the Alan
<MooDoo> awilkins: no they run their own business
<DJones> other
<TheOpenSourcerer> Have we got your cv MooDoo?
<bashrc> Do they pray at the alter of shuttle?
<popey> Êâ¿à² 
<MooDoo> TheOpenSourcerer: I was joking and no you don't :D
<MooDoo> and for awilkins benefit, it's http://www.libertus.co.uk/
<awilkins> TheOpenSourcerer, If you want my CV you can have it
<awilkins> :-P
<AlanBell> awilkins: enquiries@libertus.co.uk
<TheOpenSourcerer> We are always interested.
<bashrc> My CV is currently deprecated
<MooDoo> omg and I didn't even have to look up the url, sheesh
<awilkins> I'm a Java dev at the moment but hold it against me
<AlanBell> any language is fine, learning new languages is not a big deal
<awilkins> Indeed, it's about mental flexibility
<MooDoo> i'm more customer support/team leader which i'm doing now
<AlanBell> mostly we do PHP and Python stuff, but we are not language based specialists, we do implementing open source business applications
<awilkins> Working for the NHS I always wanted to start an "Office of LibreOffice Development"
<TheOpenSourcerer> We've just closed the 1st quarter of the new financial year for Libertus and it was a revenue record. :-D
<AlanBell> LibreOffice turns out not to be something we get asked about, people either use it or they don't
<awilkins> When we canned the enterprise-wide agreement for MS Office I did some napkin sums and concluded that we could really put some serious contributions into LibreOffice for a fraction of the money
<MooDoo> you need satalite offices around the country ;)
<TheOpenSourcerer> That includes August
<awilkins> Yeah, LibreOffice would require quite a lot of specialist investment that would be beyond most small enterprises
<awilkins> But the NHS would be a great fit for an org with enough inertia to put the effort in
<bashrc> yes
<TheOpenSourcerer> for most smes I don;t think relacing a legacy desktop app for another legacy desktop app is worth the time or cost of retraining frankly. Unless there are thousands of seats involved the ROI just sin't there.
<awilkins> When you think we must have been / still be spending  on the order of 9 figures on MS Office licenses, 5% of that is a lot of cash
<TheOpenSourcerer> awilkins: You involved in Spine2?
<awilkins> Which is of course why they stopped the single-line-item enterprise wide agreement
<awilkins> cos it would have been a huge budgetary target.
<AlanBell> and it was on the cabinet office budget
<awilkins> TheOpenSourcerer, Not involved in Spine2 ; considered it when the internal job ads came out, Linux / Python being in my quiver
<awilkins> My current focus is on collaborative work on specialist domain models ; want to foster the same kind of workflows you see in the Linux kernel development team
<awilkins> Which means both developing the VCS tools further than just tools to manage text files and also "devolve" the content tools more towards formats designed to facilitate merges
<TheOpenSourcerer> Have you seens what's coming in Owncloud 6?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Or played with Alfresco?
<awilkins> Nope ; I heard some hints that obeo.fr want to do the same sort of thing from the stuff they are poiting on the JGit mailing lists
 * awilkins bookmarks
<bashrc> I think there's a plan for collaborative document editing
<AlanBell> Alfresco is a UK based company that really should be a bit more noticed in the UK
<AlanBell> as is Canonical
<TheOpenSourcerer> Changing the subject completely... Did anyone watch the BBC2 thing on population yesterday?
<awilkins> TheOpenSourcerer, More about the very stringent peer-reviewed kind of process that the kernel employs - and not just about documents
<bashrc> no.  Is there a population shortage?
<TheOpenSourcerer> No but the perceived problem of too many peeps may well be not an issue. According to the (very plausible) presenter
<awilkins> I do tools for the huge sets of codes and other information models supposed to be used for electronic health records
<MooDoo> awilkins: you after a job or somethig ;)
<awilkins> MooDoo, A bit bored and frustrated with work at the moment :-)
<MooDoo> awilkins: where you work at the moment?
<awilkins> What used to be the NHS IT programme
<MooDoo> ok, nothing about at the moment?
<awilkins> What, nothing HERE?
<MooDoo> I meant, are you struggling to find other jobs?  as I might be looking next year...
<MooDoo> is there a lot of jobs available from what you've seen?
<awilkins> Hmm, well, I'm always getting mails from the job vultures
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: yay linkedin, I guess?
<MooDoo> don't we all
<awilkins> Not really LinkedIn so much
<awilkins> Just the various people who stuck me in a database at one time or another
<awilkins> But I rarely move jobs, been in this one for > 7 yrs
<MooDoo> awilkins: sounds like me, this is my 8th year
<awilkins> There's certainly plenty of work that I could DO, much less work that I would be actually interested in doing.
<awilkins> Anything that says "financial services industry" goes straight in the bin
<MooDoo> why don't we start ubuntu uk support i'm sure libertus solutions could fund us ;)
<awilkins> I applied for a post at Canonical for doing their Windows client for Ubuntu One once ; what I really want to do is fix proxy support for Ubuntu
<awilkins> Enterprise proxy support in particular
<awilkins> Of course, I want to do it because I'm trapped behind one at work
<awilkins> That particular itch would evaporate if I wasn't working on a network stuck behind an ISA server :-)
<MooDoo> I look at the canonical careers page now and again
<awilkins> But it staggers me the AWFUL proxy support for what you would think were core Ubuntu applications
<awilkins> Barely anything outside the browser supports PAC scripts
<MartijnVdS> because not everyone and their dog links in a javascript engine
<awilkins> MartijnVdS, My take on that is to offer a system proxy service instead
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: that would be best, but then you'd have to convince a LOT of people to use that service (everything that now just parses http_proxy env vars)
<awilkins> MartijnVdS, Why? It's just another proxy
<awilkins> MartijnVdS, Set the env variable to it's local port
<MartijnVdS> hmm
<MartijnVdS> that would probably work
<bigcalm> Anybody want a steam key for Deponia?
<awilkins> Then you could focus on doing it well ONCE
<TheOpenSourcerer> This might be up someone's street - Bloody good salary: http://www.linuxrecruit.co.uk/jobs/details/linux-consultant-london/
<awilkins> Support all the funky Windows auth schemes, etc
<awilkins> Shiny, not a bad salary, shame about the Big Smoke
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: it'd only need to be a small program, just parse incoming URLs, match against PAC using some JS engine, and do what's required
<awilkins> MartijnVdS, Yup
<awilkins> And support SOCKS
<awilkins> And also support socks-ifying processes for things that don't even support proxies at all
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: tsocks already exists for that
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: LD_PRELOAD h4x0ring
<TheOpenSourcerer> Need to reboot. bbl
<awilkins> MartijnVdS, Yeah, I use tsocks / SSH for many things (including this IRC session)_
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Friday and happy X-Ray Day! :-D
 * MartijnVdS X-rays JamesTait 
<TheOpenSourcerer> That didn't take long did it?
<awilkins> I mean, currently, the "get me the proxy" call or whatever for Ubuntu will just pass the PAC URL if one is configured
<awilkins> It should just pass the local proxy-proxy URL instead if you define a PAC script as the proxy source
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: it worked!
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: sounds reasonable
<TheOpenSourcerer> :-D
<TheOpenSourcerer> But I am running out of space on my SSD :-(
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: you could even make hooks in the local-proxy so it can run transparently without a .pac file (allowing you to sniff your own HTTP requests more easily than with wireshark)
<TheOpenSourcerer> /dev/sda1        52G   48G  1.3G  98% /
<awilkins> I see the problem, TheOpenSourcerer, your SSD is tiny
<awilkins> Get a 128GB one.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Yes.
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: move /var/log off there
<TheOpenSourcerer> I have just gone to eBuyer.
<MartijnVdS> Prices for 256G SSDs are down a lot these days
<TheOpenSourcerer> I can get rid of quite a bit of cruft but 60G aint much these days...
<awilkins> I was managing with 64GB but having to do things like keep my music on a separate thumb drive
<TheOpenSourcerer> http://www.ebuyer.com/387080-sandisk-128gb-pulse-ssd-slim-sdssdp-128g-g25
<TheOpenSourcerer> Â£65 lol
<directhex> i wouldn't buy an SSD smaller than 240G these days
<directhex> but i play a lot of games
<directhex> team fortress 2 alone is 13G
<directhex> metro last light is 9G
<awilkins> I just have a 3TB spinning rust disk for that
<SuperMatt> I'm waiting for a nicely priced Â£500G, then I'll whip all the drives out of my pc, stick them in a nas, and use the 500G for games
<MartijnVdS> directhex: doesn't that share a lot with the other Source-engine games though?
<awilkins> Games are "big bursty files" oriented for the most part
<awilkins> Not "little tidgy random access" files
<directhex> MartijnVdS, there is no longer any sharing between source engine games
<popey> yeah, my laptop ssd is 240GB and is getting tight
<MartijnVdS> directhex: not even if they share the same year/version of the engine?
<popey> /dev/sda1            213G  195G  7.0G  97% /
<SuperMatt> roffle
<awilkins> /dev/sdb1       162G   61G   93G  40% /
 * popey runs baobab
<directhex> MartijnVdS, nope
<directhex> MartijnVdS, sharing used to work with the old storage/download format. it doesn't work since the "steampipe" format
<TheOpenSourcerer> Is there much difference between brands and performance and reliability etc?
<TheOpenSourcerer> http://www.ebuyer.com/447256-kingston-240gb-v300-ssdnow-with-adapter-sv300s37a-240g
<TheOpenSourcerer> Â£123
<directhex> TheOpenSourcerer, yes, a big difference
<directhex> well, for reliability anyway
<TheOpenSourcerer> What's good then?
<directhex> for performance... you've sorta got tiers depending on the technology in use
<TheOpenSourcerer> Or what's crap?
<TheOpenSourcerer> More bothered about reliability
<MartijnVdS> directhex: ah, Steampipe is also why TF2 had to do some magic when I started it last Sunday
<TheOpenSourcerer> Won't notice a few Mb/s difference tbh
<SuperMatt> TheOpenSourcerer: not bad, but I was hoping by now prices would be lower :(
<directhex> TheOpenSourcerer, i'd avoid OCZ as a brand
<MartijnVdS> I have 2 Samsungs and 2 Intels
<directhex> TheOpenSourcerer, top tier: Mushkin Chronos Deluxe, Patriot Wildfire, OCZ Vertex 3 Max IOPS, OWC Mercury Extreme Pro 6G, Corsair Force GS
<MartijnVdS> all work great
<directhex> TheOpenSourcerer, Samsung 840, Samsung 840 Pro
<TheOpenSourcerer> Used to swear buy sammy or hitachi hdds.
<directhex> TheOpenSourcerer, OCZ Vector, OVZ Vertex 4, Plextor M3 Pro, Plextor M5 Pro, Sandisk Extreme 2
<directhex> TheOpenSourcerer, that's the top tier list
<MartijnVdS> anandtech used to do great comparisons of SSD speed
<MartijnVdS> probably still does
<directhex> TheOpenSourcerer, in theory the V300 should be considered top tier, though it isn't specifically cited in my lists
<TheOpenSourcerer> ty directhex
<directhex> TheOpenSourcerer, i'll be honest though, the controller chip used in it is regarded as good for performance, but of questionable long-term reliability (it's a VERY common chip)
<directhex> TheOpenSourcerer, also note that my list is specifically for 240G drives. SSD performance characteristics vary with drive size, and a given trive might be top tier at 240G and mid tier at 120G
<TheOpenSourcerer> gotcha
<MartijnVdS> also, if your machine has SATA-300, SSD Speed isn't going to be the bottleneck
<directhex> TheOpenSourcerer, i have an old model of Kingston, the HyperX. wife has an old model of sandisk, the Extreme. both 240G
<TheOpenSourcerer> Dunno what Sata I have.
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: kernel log will tell you
<TheOpenSourcerer> Nah: UDMA/133
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: [    3.153793] ata1: SATA link up 3.0 Gbps (SStatus 123 SControl 300)
<TheOpenSourcerer> SATA link up 1.5 Gbps
<directhex> as roughly indivative, a samsung 840 pro 256GB is about 50% faster than a crucial m500 240gb
<directhex> so we're not talking minor discrepancies
<AlanBell> syslog.1:Nov  7 19:07:07 alanlaptop kernel: [248937.090995] ata1: SATA link up 3.0 Gbps (SStatus 123 SControl 300)
<MartijnVdS> directhex: compared to spinning rust, it's a minor difference though
<directhex> true
<AlanBell> are hybrid drives any good?
<directhex> AlanBell, good question. never really investigated
<SuperMatt> me neither
<MartijnVdS> the Samsung Prius?
<directhex> (if i came across as facetious there, it wasn't intentional. it really *is* a good question)
<directhex> MartijnVdS, e.g. http://www.seagate.com/as/en/internal-hard-drives/laptop-hard-drives/laptop-solid-state-hybrid-drive/
<directhex> which is a hard disk with a small ssd cache in front
<directhex> 8G i think. let me check
<directhex> 8G in the laptop models
<directhex> also the desktop models
<directhex> except for the 500G momemtus xt, which is 4G
<TheOpenSourcerer> Thanks all - just ordered a Sammy 840 EVO 250G for my lappy and a Kingston V300 64G for my desktop as an OS and bcache
<bigcalm> I like that people are contributing amounts that keep the total at fun numbers
<bigcalm> Current total Â£777
<TheOpenSourcerer> Ah good point - it needs a bit more pimping I think...
<AlanBell> possibly even an "update"
<dwatkins> it's really quiet in my office, I get the impression half the people here are either working from home or have the day off.
<MooDoo> dwatkins: can't you work from home?
<SuperMatt> starting next friday, I have every friday off until new year
<MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: on purpose?
<SuperMatt> yup
<SuperMatt> well
<SuperMatt> I didn't plan to have so much leave left over
<SuperMatt> I just didn't take it
<MartijnVdS> ah so they're not making you ;)
<dwatkins> MooDoo: yeah, in theory, but I wanted to come in and try and sort out my Raspberry Pi, despite the fact my manager and half the team are off or working from home themselves.
<MooDoo> dwatkins: get those tunes on loud then :D
<dwatkins> unfortunately it's an open-plan office, and I can hear at least one person on a conference call
<dwatkins> also, the phone hardly stops ringing
<MooDoo> boooo
<dwatkins> I have headphones :)
<MooDoo> small mercies
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<MooDoo> morning brobostigon
<dwatkins> hiya brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo and dwatkins
<dwatkins> I considered getting a HDMI splitter (I need a powered one for the Raspberry Pi, as the simple one doesn't seem to work), but they're more expensive than a 2nd Raspberry Pi....
 * dwatkins orders a 2nd Raspbery Pi
<brobostigon> good choice,
<TheOpenSourcerer> Hmmm, anyone near Farnham fancy a pub lunch today?
 * AlanBell has a reservation at Raymond Blanc's place
 * TheOpenSourcerer is not playing gooseberry
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: ermahgerd, gerseberry?
<dwatkins> hmmm, perhaps a powered splitter would be better, and they're only Â£25
<TheOpenSourcerer> If I understood you I might reply MartijnVdS...
<davmor2> Morning all
<MooDoo> morning davmor2
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/ermahgerd
<bigcalm> Hi davmor2
<davmor2> morning MooDoo hows life dude?
<davmor2> I got a shiny new touchy feely mouse last night and it just works wow :D
<bigcalm> davmor2: be sure to make fun of Amo's non-starting car at the LUG next week. I had to jump start it twice yesterday after badminton
<davmor2> bigcalm: is this his car or his moms that he has broken?
<bigcalm> davmor2: his own Saab
<davmor2> oh he got another new one :D
<bigcalm> davmor2: dead battery. I'm chuffed with myself for keeping jump leads in my car boot
<popey> TheOpenSourcerer: yes, i fancy a pub lunch
<TheOpenSourcerer> :-D
<Laney> me too
<Laney> swing by and pick me up?
<Laney> (jealous)
<bigcalm> popey: Moga Pro arrived today. Makes GTA Vice City much more fun :)
<popey> might take a while...
<popey> http://bit.ly/HMIzO3
<TheOpenSourcerer> popey: Want me to come to northcamp? Or do you fancy something like a "Gourmet Burger"?
<popey> I can come over your way
<TheOpenSourcerer> cool.
<popey> bigcalm: oh?
<davmor2> haha my new logitech t400 mouses middle button is odd the bottom half trigger the dash (ie super key press) the top half is a standard third button mouse click :D  that's gonna be fun :)
<bigcalm> popey: yus
<popey> TheOpenSourcerer: you should get AlanBell to ask in #surrey too
<bigcalm> popey: works via bluetooth, so I'll be hooking it up to my TV stick at lunch time to play GTA VC on the telly :D
<popey> you can play GTC VC on android?
<bigcalm> Yus
<bigcalm> It's a 1.3GB download iirc
<bigcalm> About 4 odd quid on the play store
<MartijnVdS> with WITH the entire soundtrack!
<bigcalm> Yus, I love loves me the soundtrack
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: I have the CD edition :)
<bigcalm> I wonder if Minecraft would work with the controller
<bigcalm> No, it doesn't :(
<popey> /dev/sda1            213G  168G   35G  84% /
<popey> that's better
<MartijnVdS> popey: apt-get clean?
<popey> uninstall some games, delete some vmss
<popey> -s
<popey> KiB Mem:   8056528 total,  6641020 used,  1415508 free,     3540 buffers
<popey> KiB Swap:  8267772 total,  6276728 used,  1991044 free,   747996 cached
<popey> this could be better
<popey>  7406 alan      20   0 2509m 506m  16m S   1.3  6.4 171:23.57 chromium-browse
<popey>  6754 alan      20   0 2293m 350m  16m S   0.7  4.4 102:32.13 chromium-browse
<popey>  6355 alan      20   0 3599m 320m  22m S   2.0  4.1 258:48.25 chromium-browse
<mungbean> i hate what browsers have become
<MartijnVdS> time to reboot the browser/
<popey> closed a bunch of tabs, down to 5.2G swap
<penguin42> 5.2G swap ?!
<diddledan> that's painful
<MartijnVdS> popey: how many tabs do you have open, usually?
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: He's got the whole of the internet loaded into his browser
<popey> $lots
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: that's only 5.2G?
<popey> mostly docs
<popey> and launchpad tabs
<MartijnVdS> popey: There seem to be 3 kinds of web browser users :)
<popey> KiB Swap:  8267772 total,  4225476 used,  4042296 free,   759772 cached
<MartijnVdS> popey: - Just one tab.
<mungbean> close gmail facebook and g+ and twitter tabs
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: It is once you compress the kittens
<MartijnVdS> popey: - Several tabs, up to ~10
<MartijnVdS> popey: - Millions of tabs, never closes any
<mungbean> i am the person that uses between 10-50 tabs
<popey> i have two separate browser sessions open, with about 50 in each
<mungbean> i stop when i can't see the icons onthe tabs on a widescreen anymore
<MartijnVdS> I stop when the tabs get less wide
<MartijnVdS> (than default)
<diddledan> I stop when I can't see or remember what they all are
<diddledan> if I spend more time clicking through to find the one I want then I'm doing something wrong
<diddledan> than it would take to just load the page anew**
<mungbean> my brother asks: what the main diff between the different PS3: e.g 12GB and 500GB
<popey> KiB Swap:  8267772 total,  3085900 used,  5181872 free,   898840 cached
<popey> space
<penguin42> Amazon's recommendation stuff is only slightly clever; it's recommending me a lot of stuff by people I already have 'greatest hits' type of things from and thus won't be buying more, but it's also offering me random 'Greatest Hits' CDs of stuff just because I have a lot of Greatest Hits
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: Storage space for games (downloadable ones) and save games
<mungbean> what would the 12gb one inhibit?
<mungbean> is it hobbled by the small space
<mungbean> he is considering buying one for his kids
<penguin42> popey: htf do you find the tab you're interested in with 50 open?
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: if he intends to download >1 game, yes.
<mungbean> what happens if you want to download 3 games with a 12gb space?
<mungbean> can you move them to external drives?
<mungbean> or redownload them later?
<mungbean> the 12gb is flash rather than HDD
<popey> penguin42: i know where they are
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: external drives might work
<mungbean> is the 12gb better perf?
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: redownloads work at least several times
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: it's probably SSD, while the others are spinning rust
<penguin42> 12gb is an odd number
<mungbean> mathematical it's even :P
<mungbean> but maybe there are 4gb of system OS on it
<MartijnVdS> nah not quite that much
<diddledan> can you replace the disc used by the ps3?
<mungbean> allegedly if you plug a HDD into it , then it can override the flash drive for you
<mungbean> i only read that on the internet though, so could be wrong
<diddledan> https://support.us.playstation.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/362
<mungbean> are downloaded games any more or less expensive than the cheapest bluray based games?
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: depends on the age of the game
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: newest games will most likely be cheaper on disc (but lots of disc games *also* need to install several GB onto the hard disk)
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: older games might be cheaper online
<MartijnVdS> (but go on HD 100%)
<mungbean> sounds hobbled if the games need several gb of space ?
<popey> TheOpenSourcerer: what time is lunch?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Whenever you are ready popey :-)
<jussi> dammit, I want to come to lunch!
<TheOpenSourcerer> Come on then jussi
<TheOpenSourcerer> how far can Farnham be from you?
<popey> ok, just waiting for cleaner to finish
<jussi> TheOpenSourcerer: about 1900km
<TheOpenSourcerer> Not far then.
<jussi> hehe
<jussi> bit far for lunch
<diddledan> where'd all this rain come from suddenly?
<shauno> ah, that might have been us
<diddledan> it's widdling it
<diddledan> shauno: have you been making clouds again?
<MooDoo> or singing
<diddledan> the local cloud generator is turned off now (didcot power station) or rather the cloud generating is no longer functioning
<MartijnVdS> we have all the clouds here now :(
<diddledan> it looks boring now. four massive cooling towers with nothing billowing out of them
<diddledan> they've gone gas
<diddledan> yey for more reliance on russia
<jussi> oooh, cool news! http://gigaom.com/2013/11/06/facebook-open-sources-its-sql-on-hadoop-engine-and-the-web-rejoices/#!
<diddledan> I'm sure that the web didn't rejoice
<diddledan> I'm on the web, for e.g. and I didn't rejoice
 * popey pings TheOpenSourcerer a pm
<dwatkins> I was wondering how long it would take for them to shut down Didcot Power Station, diddledan - I grew up around there.
<dwatkins> So there are two towers still being used?
<diddledan> dwatkins: they've turned off the coal fires afaik but gas generation is still happening
<dwatkins> I remember seeing the gigantic ball-bearings when we went on a tour of the site.
<diddledan> the cooling towers aren't being used anymore, though
<shauno> pedant, I usually say gas-fired or oil-fired, etc.  'gas generation' sounds like a job for Dominos
<diddledan> shauno: they're generating using gas
<penguin42> oddly the UK seems to have been using more coal as of late
<dwatkins> I imagine we have an expanding economy.
<MartijnVdS> time to go nuclear!
<mungbean> one more PS3 question: do they not support playing of ps2 games anymore?
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: indeed, they do not.
<dwatkins> depends on the model, mungbean
<mungbean> recent
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: Newer models haven't supported PS2 games since '08
<dwatkins> I had a really old original PS3 which would run PS2 games, but my new slim PS3 doesn't
<mungbean> sucks
<dwatkins> indeed, MartijnVdS & mungbean
<mungbean> is there a way?
<mungbean> i.e. download them
<dwatkins> yeah, some games have been ported
<penguin42> dwatkins: I think we've actually been using more coal to get it in before we're forced to switch it off, and because US coal became cheap to import
<mungbean> like on the wii
<dwatkins> there are emulators, of course
<shauno> I think nuclear may actually be why moar coal.  they've shutdown several reactors in the last 10 years (6?) but haven't brought any new ones online since the 80s
<dwatkins> penguin42: oh my
<penguin42> dwatkins: We're currently (last 30mins) running 38% coal, 34.4% gas, 15.8% nuke, 4.2% wind
<dwatkins> interesting to know, thanks penguin42
<dwatkins> we have a big wind farm just outside Edinburgh
<penguin42> dwatkins: I've seen the wind figures peak at about 15% - but that's on a very windy day at the weekend when the useage is low
<dwatkins> I wonder if solar and wind combined would provide enough power in theory
<penguin42> dwatkins: Not a chance
<dwatkins> you'd probably need massive farms of both, of course
<dwatkins> ah ok
<MartijnVdS> tidal..?
<dwatkins> geothermal?
<penguin42> dwatkins: http://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/
<shauno> dole recipients on bicycles?</dm>
<dwatkins> neat, penguin42 - might put that up on one of the displays here
<penguin42> dwatkins: tbh that does show compared with this time last year we are running more gas and less coal than last year
<shauno> I totally advocate more nuclear power
<penguin42> shauno: Hmm, I think it's unfortunately the only workable solution - but I keep it as an unfortunate
<dwatkins> We'll run out of coal and gas eventually, and I suspecgt nuclear is the only viable alternative right now, since fusion power is a long way off.
<dwatkins> *suspect
<penguin42> dwatkins: The thing to watch on that thing is the monthly/yearly wind graphs - you sometimes get upto maybe 5GW for a few days, but then end up with a few days or a week at almost zilch - that's a hugre variation
<mungbean> my EDF plan is "low carbon" which means more nuke
<mungbean> although i suspect the people who get excited by low carbon aren't excited by more nuke
<dwatkins> EDF, mungbean?
<penguin42> mungbean: Yeh I think I had them for a while; it's nice how they show you the amount of radioactivity released per kwh in their docs
<dwatkins> I'm excited by not running out of power.
<mungbean> yes, edf blue i think is called
<penguin42> dwatkins: Yeh well there's the problem
<dwatkins> ah yes http://my.edfenergy.com/gas-electricity/compare-blue
<dwatkins> indeed, penguin42 - I cycle to work, but I still use a lot of computers, of course.
<penguin42> dwatkins: Note we also import about 3gw just over cable from france/dutch
<dwatkins> Perhaps someday we'll all have to cycle at work as well.... http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1510207830/pedal-power-human-scale-energy-for-everyday-tasks
<mungbean> just like in sim city eh penguin42
<mungbean> what are the prices like for remastered Ps2 games on ps3 please?
<mungbean> google not telling me yet
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: look on PSN :)
<MartijnVdS> â¬9,99ish on this side of the  North Sea
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: also www.psnprices.com
<MooDoo> https://www.facebook.com/acdcxmas - help :D lol
<mungbean> i got an email from tomtom about a satnav i bought about 4yrs ago
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: spammy
<mungbean> about an update. never heard from them before
<mungbean> about easygpxfix
<mungbean> Your TomTom device uses at least 4 satellite signals to check your position. But with QuickGPSfix, it locates you much quicker â so you can set off quicker, too.
<mungbean> Within just 30 seconds, youâll be able to start your journey, even in places where the GPS signal is weak or partially blocked.
<mungbean> Better yet, you can download QuickGPSfix to your device right now for free. To upgrade, just click the button.
<mungbean> need windows :(
<MartijnVdS> ah, new ephemeris daat
<MartijnVdS> data*
<mgdm> mungbean: yeah, I got that too
<mgdm> mungbean: I thought it was spam, but it had a picture of the device, and it's not exactly current
<mungbean> yeah
<mungbean> thats the device i have
<mungbean> whats the cheapest way to get RAC/AA cover? quidco? tesco clubcard?
<directhex> i get mine from toyota
<mgdm> mungbean: I have heard that if you find them standing outside o Tesco or whereever you can haggle, but I've not tried it
<mungbean> i didn't know that mgdm
<mungbean> RAC prices on clubcard have rocketed
<mungbean> and they are now doing a pricey renewal or lower price for "new members" even on clubcard
<DJones> mungbean: Does it have to be RAC/AA? my Dad has been with one of the small ones for a few years, not sure of th service quality because he's never had to call them out, but prices were a lot cheaper
<DJones> mungbean: http://www.insurancechoice.co.uk/breakdowncover/car-breakdown-cover
<directhex> typically the smaller ones subcontract to your nearest local garage
<directhex> meaning response times and service quality are random and potentially terrible
<MartijnVdS> or, potentially, better than AA/RAC
<directhex> potentially, yes
<MartijnVdS> but that's unlikely
<DJones> That one looks to be backed by AXA Insurance
<DJones> But as you say, does look to subcontract to your local garage
<bigcalm> 2 fairly identical websites running on one server. 1 website is responding normally, the other is taking 30+ seconds to respond to requests. What might I look at to see what's wrong?
<mgdm> error logs? DNS config?
<mungbean> i went for RAC with tesco , Â£40
<DJones> Thats something the industry I'm working in does, so its not something I'd have an issue with
<mungbean> realised i was looking at the family prices rather than joint
<shauno> tried pulling a static asset off each to isolate whether the wait is in the stack or the application?
<bigcalm> Ta
<shauno> (not an answer, but cuts the field in half)
<bigcalm> Indeed
<bigcalm> That was a quick enough response
<bigcalm> So it's either the application or the database I guess
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: I pay twice that/year, and I get full coverage across Europe
<bigcalm> Have restarted both mysql and apache on the server. No change
<mungbean> RAC european cover gives you a free breathalyser
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: one of the applications might be trying to connect to something it's not allowed to connect to (dropped packets)
<mungbean> not sure what they are trying to say there
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: for France, no doubt
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: you're required to have one in your car there
<mungbean> because wine comes out of the taps?
<mungbean> really? wow
<mungbean> TIL
<mungbean> even if you don't drink?
<MartijnVdS> yes
<mungbean> lame
<MartijnVdS> even if you never use it
<mgdm> You could be like the guy who claimed he never drank but was 3 times over the limit when caught, due to "having eaten 1kg of raspberries"
<MartijnVdS> mgdm: hmm.. fermented raspberries
<shauno> there's a whole kit the french require you to keep handy
<mungbean> garlic?
<mgdm> http://news.stv.tv/tayside/251867-theres-something-funny-about-this-drunk-driver-who-blamed-raspberries-on-alcohol-reading-banned/
<mungbean> string of oignons
<mgdm> "Former Royal Marine Cook said he had been teetotal for 50 years but had unwittingly eaten raspberries which were equivalent to ten pints of beer."
<shauno> flozzy jacket, warning triangle, stuff like that
<daftykins> reply from my ISP about those router resets - they claim they moved everyone to PPPoE
 * TheOpenSourcerer has another Alan in Libertus towers this afternoon...
<daftykins> :o
<daftykins> how do you keep finding them XD
<TheOpenSourcerer> You can never have enough alans
<daftykins> i'm beginning to think it's a job requirement for your company :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> That would be descriminatory
<MooDoo> daftykins: it's part of the contract, must change name to alan after 30 days of the start of your contract.
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> and nobody reads before signing :(
<Alan-MooDoo> this better?
<TheOpenSourcerer> :-)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Not sure about the "MooDoo2 bit though Alan-MooDoo
<Alan-MooDoo> come one everyone change your nick to alan-<nick> :)
<shauno> is name actually protected by the equality act?
<daftykins> Welcome aboard Alan, now we shall proceed to step 2 of the training. Introductions!
<daftykins> Alan, you already know this Alan but may I introduce Alan?
<Alan-MooDoo> hi I'm alan
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: indoctrinations*
<daftykins> Alan Alan, Alan Alan.
<daftykins> fired so soon :(
<daftykins> ;)
<MooDoo> quit, crap bosses, they wanted to take me to the pub...i don't come to work to go down the pub ;)
<daftykins> :D
<MartijnVdS> also, your last name isn't 4 letters long
 * popey waves from Libertus Towers
<MooDoo> was never going to work, it's me not you.
<MartijnVdS> popey: *Alan Towers
<MartijnVdS> popey: "HQ of the Alan Invasion"
<daftykins> Motto: "One of us, one of us..."
<MooDoo> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/62/Alan_kingdom_hispania.png
<MooDoo> an old image showing the kingdom of the alans
<daftykins> :O
<MartijnVdS> http://i.imgur.com/DYgbzQr.png
<daftykins> MooDoo: old because they now cover more land?!
<popey> ooh thats near where my dad lived
<daftykins> Alan Sr. ?
<popey> Peter
<daftykins> :D
<TheOpenSourcerer> The yellow: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ea/Alani_map.jpg
<MooDoo> i want this -  http://www.force18.co.uk/images/tee-alan-tshirt-black.jpg
<TheOpenSourcerer> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alans
<MooDoo> or this - http://www.stupid.com/assets/images/the_hangover_my_name_is_alan_tshirt_1.jpg
<TheOpenSourcerer> The Alans were a big tribe man :-)
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: the "History of English podcast" talks about them for several episodes
<davmor2> MooDoo: I knew you were old but admitting you know about the Kingdom of Alans really dates you :)
<MooDoo> davmor2: I'm as old as the alans :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> You are not old as me.
<TheOpenSourcerer> I am the oldest (and hopefully wisest) amongst us ;-)
<MooDoo> TheOpenSourcerer: depends how old :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> 1965
<MooDoo> you are then :D
<MartijnVdS> Alan the Ancient
<MooDoo> I'm a 70's kid :)
<MartijnVdS> 1980 hero
<popey> I can now see how much work gets done at Libertus Solutions post-lunch
<MooDoo> makes me want to work there even more now :D
<MooDoo> change my name to alan, have fun on a friday....sounds bliss ;)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Told you so. I have tales of yore that I could tell you all. But forsooth, I must proceed with my ramblings elsewhere.
<davmor2> MooDoo: best time to grow up it means you were old enough to appreciate when all the good music happened :D
<MooDoo> davmor2: unless it's led zeppelin or pink flloyd then it's all crap
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: hey, I was 10 when the first 90s music came out ;)
<MooDoo> ;)
 * TheOpenSourcerer is going to see Letz Zep tomorrow night :-)
<MooDoo> you'll be dazed and confused after that
<daftykins> TheOpenSourcerer: :D sounds fun
<davmor2> MooDoo: yeah but then your parents had all that on LP so you got the best of the best all round :P
<MooDoo> davmor2: we don't mention lp's that my parents own, it's a sore subject in our house
<daftykins> MooDoo: may i add Black Sabbath to that list
<MooDoo> daftykins: of course
<daftykins> i've been listening a lot lately \o/
<davmor2> MooDoo: well if you would use them a Frisbees then it would be :P
<MooDoo> davmor2: pretty much something like that, one was an original copy of help by the beatles...which is worth about Â£50 to Â£100 nowadays at least I think it was help.
<MooDoo> oh some lp that's worth a bit now
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: "Help".. me pay my rent
<davmor2> MooDoo: I wore out My mom's copy of War of the Worlds listening to it :D  That went down well I can tell you :D
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: No one would have believed..
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS: lol
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: In the last years of the nineteenth century
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: my dad put it on tape for me to listen to, didn't trust me with vinyl ;)
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: Of course now I'm going to have to drop the CD into this box and listen to it :D
<popey> anyone fancy testing a game I made in scratch, and give constructive critique?
<popey> it's not finished â»
<popey> http://popey.com/~alan/typing.sb if you have 5 mins. press numbers as they fall down the screen. if they get to the bottom you lose, if you type the wrong one it gets faster
<popey> need to fiddle the difficulty a little and add a title screen and level selection i think.
<bigcalm> What's a .sb?
<bigcalm> Oh, scratch
<MooDoo> popey: er how you run this on windows machines, it doesn't seem to want to run in the browser?  I'm being thick
<awilkins> Scratch has it's own runtime
<awilkins> Although they are working on a browser version
<MooDoo> oh right
<popey> you need to install scratch
<MooDoo> yeah ok thanks
<TheOpenSourcerer> scratch 2 is browser based I think.
<daftykins> too many damn plugins
<popey> yeah, is horrid
<popey> its flash based, the new one
<popey> stupid stupid
<daftykins> D:
<daftykins> didn't they say HTML5 was going to solve all of this by now? :D
<popey> it has for many
<popey> see all those apple and android devices which have no flash
<daftykins> this is true
<daftykins> though that's mostly just video for now i guess
<popey> yeah
<daftykins> i just put IE11 on in a VM, heh
<bigcalm> modern.ie?
<daftykins> er, not sure what you mean
<bigcalm> Never mind then :)
<daftykins> i looked it up and found the site... :D
<bigcalm> http://www.modern.ie/en-US/virtualization-tools#downloads
<daftykins> oic
<daftykins> nah i just setup a clean win7 VM to see if it still annoyingly needed a net connection to install, which it does
<daftykins> hahaha a friend just linked me to this, just to continue the Alan theme...
<daftykins> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Loi-cTSQy2Q
<daftykins> :D
<Myrtti> yes.
 * bigcalm plays "hunt the pixel" while trying to increase a window's height using the top edge
<TheOpenSourcerer> That's "design" :-D
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: alt+middle drag
<daftykins> they are far too specific margins
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: ta
<bigcalm> I already use alt + drag for moving around any way :)
<BigRedS> MartijnVdS: thanks!
<mungbean> "A new Bloomberg report suggests that Stephen Elop, who's apparently on the short list of candidates to replace Steve Ballmer as Microsoft's CEO, would eliminate company projects such as Xbox and Bing while focusing resources on Office.
<penguin42> mungbean: I think they'd make a fortune if they released Office on Android
<mungbean> nah
<mungbean> who wants to pay for office products?
<brobostigon> there is a version of office for android.
<penguin42> where?
<penguin42> mungbean: unfortunately they've still got their stuff a lot more 'just works' than anything else
<brobostigon> microshaft office mobile,
<brobostigon> penguin42: search google play, its there.
<penguin42> brobostigon: Is that local on on the 365 stuff?
<brobostigon> penguin42: local ?
<penguin42> brobostigon: Editing files on the android device rather than on the 365 cloud?
<brobostigon> penguin42: from the description, it implies it is on device editing,
<penguin42> brobostigon: Hmm ok, yeh then that's good
<brobostigon> ok,
<Azelphur> for those who were interested in the inputs.io hack the other day, turns out it was hosted by linode, so this would be the second time linode has been compromised and had a bitcoin hijack
<Azelphur> xD
<daftykins> D:
<daftykins> that's good of them
<Azelphur> indeed
<diddledan> are my credit card details safe?
<Azelphur> diddledan: *shrug*
<Azelphur> probably, but they mostly use a payment processor don't they?
<ali1234> Azelphur: http://paste.ubuntu.com/6384374/
<Azelphur> hello python
<ali1234> you have to idle in #bitcoin-market with pidgin to make it work
<Azelphur> bitcoin ticker?
<Azelphur> ah :)
<Azelphur> doesn't bitcoin-market use gox?
<ali1234> all exchanges
<Azelphur> cool
<ali1234> you can filter whatever you want, see line 69
<ali1234> and 61
<ali1234> and 53
<Azelphur> :)
<ali1234> i should make that use a dictionary really
<Azelphur> ali1234: cashed out a bit to pay my bills and bought myself a sony smartwatch, btw :P
<ali1234> is it good?
<Azelphur> dunno, arrives tomorrow
<Azelphur> hopefully :)
<diddledan> ooh, those sony watches look interesting
<Azelphur> indeed, the v2 runs android
<diddledan> the galaxy gear apparently requires recharging every 12 hours
<ali1234> "what time is it?" "time to charge my smartwatch"
<diddledan> and only works with the note
<Azelphur> haha
<Azelphur> I'm generally cool with once a day charging on things (while I sleep)
<ali1234> "why is my wrist so hot?" "oh"
<Azelphur> Sony one supposedly does up to 6 days, or 3 on heavy use
<Azelphur> so I'm cool with that.
<diddledan> yeah, I tend to charge my phone daily whether it needs it or not
<Azelphur> yea, it's my evening ritual, I put everything on charge before I go to sleep
<diddledan> it's part of my ritual
<Azelphur> haha
<diddledan> heh jinx
<Azelphur> Headset, N7, N7 HD, N4, EasyAcc battery, and now smartwatch
<Azelphur> charge all the things >.<
<diddledan> not enough sockets, gah
<Azelphur> diddledan: I fixed that
<diddledan> hehe
<Azelphur> https://www.dropbox.com/s/x25eayunda52zcz/2013-10-31%2022.49.10.jpg
<diddledan> I am toiling with the idea of getting the new nexus7 to replace my old one
<Azelphur> https://www.dropbox.com/s/x25eayunda52zcz/2013-10-31%2022.49.10.jpg
<Azelphur> diddledan: I have both, I certainly like the new one, better at games and lighter :)
<Azelphur> I got it because it was on special offer, so cheap it was hard to turn dow
<Azelphur> n
<diddledan> I kinda want the 10 tho but that's last year's tech
<Azelphur> hehe
<Azelphur> I got my N7 HD for Â£170 :)
<Azelphur> (32GB edition, no cell)
<diddledan> that's cheaper than the base model from google play
<Azelphur> by far, indeed :)
<Myrtti> â¥ http://www.flickr.com/photos/myrtti/10743095875/
<Azelphur> fun :)
<Myrtti> fits the champagne case thingy I've got for it â¥
<Azelphur> :D
<Azelphur> Myrtti: https://www.dropbox.com/s/8r8fsor566cz5tt/2013-11-08%2021.32.18.png?m mine is boring :P
<Myrtti> yeah my N7 looks boring too
<Azelphur> My N4 is just messy https://www.dropbox.com/s/prwe77skokm5956/2013-11-08%2021.35.05.png?m
<diddledan> ergh. why does netflix have to use silverlight?!
<mgdm> DRM
<diddledan> I have a sneaky suspicion that netflix thinks I'm somewhere other than the UK
<diddledan> when I logged in it prompted me to tell me that the collection may be different in different countries "while you're travelling"
<diddledan> and now it's broken
<diddledan> fudge
<diddledan> ho hum
<diddledan> I guess I shan't be watching any movies this eve
<Myrtti> Azelphur: http://www.flickr.com/photos/myrtti/10748701113/
<Azelphur> Myrtti: nice
<Azelphur> you should see my old nexus 7, the king of unorganised
<Azelphur> https://www.dropbox.com/s/k9yabrrd2ct7lew/2013-11-08%2021.55.02.png?m
<Azelphur> what is this organisation you speak of.
<brobostigon> woop, new QI
<Azelphur> If something is IP57 rated, does that mean it'll survive in the shower and in the rain?
<ali1234> yes, for 30 minutes
<Azelphur> fun
<daftykins> got the weirdest situation going on here
<daftykins> one of my friends lives on Guernsey as well, but a couple live in England
<daftykins> that one local friend can't join any Xbox Live parties or games hosted by someone in England
<daftykins> there has to be at least one other Guern on O_O
<daftykins> it's not even due to UPnP or NAT status of his console
<ali1234> what is a xbox live party?
<daftykins> it just doesn't seem to want him to be friends with English peeps :D
<daftykins> it's a collection of users on voice chat
<daftykins> damn it, i just had them both join a game i'd setup - but they both had connection timeouts
<daftykins> (playing GTA V)
<gordonjcp> I was just playing GTA V
<daftykins> gordonjcp: online or single?
<gordonjcp> online
<daftykins> vewy gewd
<daftykins> i'm just doing some races with friends now
 * penguin42 pokes deman5 with a sharp stick
<penguin42> <sigh>
#ubuntu-uk 2013-11-09
<samyr> br?
<Azelphur> in ubuntu-uk? nope.
<Azelphur> !br | samyr
<lubotu3> samyr: Por favor, use #ubuntu-br para ajuda em portuguÃªs. Para entrar no canal por favor faÃ§a "/join #ubuntu-br" sem as aspas. Para a comunidade local portuguÃªsa, use #ubuntu-pt. Obrigada.
<AlanBell> morning
<MartijnVdS> morning
<MartijnVdS> does anyone know a way to create a bootable USB stick that's not usb-creator-gtk (Which segfaults every other second)
<ali1234> dd the iso
<MartijnVdS> oh and it has to be UEFI-capable (which unetbootin' wasn't last time I looked)
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: wut? that works?
<ali1234> it works for bios
<ali1234> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/USBStickUEFIHowto
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: usb-creator-gtk should just do that for me :(
<MartijnVdS> it used to, but now it segfaults
<ali1234> report a bug?
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: it's been widely reported
<ali1234> click me too and then moan in the comments?
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: it's been broken since 12.10
<MartijnVdS> I'll do it manually..
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: I think the 13.10 ISOs do have that EFI partition already
<mungbean> tomtom say the email i received was a mistake :S
<mungbean> MartijnVdS: unetbootin?
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: it's a tool to write all kinds of ISOs to USB sticks
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: it'll even download the ISO for you
<mungbean> yep
<mungbean> did someone mention unetbootin
<mungbean> usb-grator-gtk != unetbootin
<MartijnVdS> I did, and I think it has broken UEFI support
<mungbean> oh
<mungbean> ubunt images you can dd for sure
<MartijnVdS> apparently, didn't know that before ali1234 said so
<ali1234> most distros support hybrid isos now... ubuntu/debian was one of the last... maybe debian still can't do it
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: debian wheezy can, according to their release notes
<ali1234> cool
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: they even support some kind of "firmware tarball" thing
<ali1234> :-S
<MartijnVdS> so you can actually install everything 8-)
<ali1234> anyone here use xfce4-places-plugin?
<ali1234> i just fixed it so it supports remote gvfs bookmarks, and also uses the correct icons on local bookmarks
<ali1234> looks a bit like this: http://imagebin.org/276277
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<MartijnVdS> \o brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning MartijnVdS
<SuperMatt> morning guys and dolls
<brobostigon> morning SuperMatt
<SuperMatt> morning brobostigon
<brobostigon> lol, just notice something funny, in a scene of TBBT, penny was at a supermarket with sheldon, and i noticed a whole load of guinness bottles in the background.
<mungbean> is it fizzy in bottles like some other ales
<brobostigon> no idea.
<mungbean> ale in bottles is nasty
<gordonjcp> depends on the ale
<gordonjcp> guinness isn't an ale, anywway
<gordonjcp> it's a cheap crappy mass-produced stout
<mungbean> my nan used to like drinking cans of makesons stout
<MartijnVdS> NaN?
<MartijnVdS> gordonjcp, mungbean: http://www.vandestreek-bier.nl/en/dark-roast-2/
<gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: sounds good, 7.8 is pretty strong though
<MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: it's quite normal here :)
<gordonjcp> not a fan of that
<gordonjcp> I like session ales
<MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: they also have an ale
<MartijnVdS> http://www.vandestreek-bier.nl/en/broeders-2/
<gordonjcp> there seems to be a fashion in craft beers for 7%+ bombers
<gordonjcp> and they're just not that nice
<gordonjcp> it's why I don't like Brew Dog much
<mungbean> its all academic as i cant really drink beers anymore :(
<daubers> Afternoon
<brobostigon> afternoodlings daubers
<daubers> brobostigon: Finally converted to pastafarianism?
<brobostigon> daubers: i am not familier with the word.
<daubers> brobostigon: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_Spaghetti_Monster
<shauno> how can you be familiar with afternoodling buts not pastafarianism?
<daubers> shauno: brobostigon obviously hasn't been touched by His Noodly Appendage
<brobostigon> daubers: lol, interesting and funny.
<directhex> pfffffft
<directhex> ouya competitior gamestick has a new launch day... same as the ps4
<daubers> directhex: I know what I'll be buying that day!]
<daubers> Milk
 * Laney wibbles
 * penguin42 wabbles
 * directhex wubbles
 * Laney wÃ¸bbles
 * brobostigon wibbles
<Myrtti> I feel like a fairy godmother sometimes
<penguin42> why - are you going to give us chocolate?
<Myrtti> I seem to be SO's Facebook secretary at times, but it works for Google+ too
<Myrtti> aquarius: you're welcome :-P
<andylockran> howdy all
<brobostigon> evening andylockran
<andylockran> how you doing?
<brobostigon> tired, headache, and you?
 * penguin42 worries that G+'s multicolumn layout has between popey's post about cocktails and curry a post about HACMan's new stop tap
<mungbean> i still have single column layout
<ali1234> it changes with browser width
<ali1234> also, there's an option
<penguin42> mungbean: I did until recently, but then I realised it had started getting much more random in the order it returned posts, so there wasn't any order any more even in single column
<daftykins> hrmm i've left someone in a bit of a tough one, that chromebook i helped install Ubuntu on, I forgot the password i set! X|
<daftykins> they're trying to install a package that may get a printer working, but it's holding them up
<daftykins> i wonder if it has grub :S
<mgdm> 'oops'
<daftykins> indeed :)
<daftykins> it's not hard to just reset the chromebook to factory defaults, then reinstall - just i'm back on Guernsey now and they're in Brighton :D
<daftykins> i don't think it has a standard GRUB install to just reset by booting recovery mode
<penguin42> no, I don't think so - I'm trying to remember - I think you can tell it to boot off USB by holding a key down during boot
<daftykins> might have to be a blitz and re-do situation then
<daftykins> gave her all the ideas i had and yet none work apparently >_<
<penguin42> daftykins: You did leave her with a USB boot rescue - right?
<daftykins> i didn't even have any flash drives of mine when i was there :D
<daftykins> let alone a spare
<daftykins> not even sure the developer BIOS on that samsung 500 would play ball with that
<penguin42> daftykins: They do because I was helping an ex-cow-orker with one a few weeks back
<daftykins> ja, i recall
<daftykins> hrmm ok, so that might allow a chroot and pass change
<daftykins> though for my target audience i sense this is too much
#ubuntu-uk 2013-11-10
<Azelphur> Low: $267.21, High: $352.12, Bitcoin market volatility at its finest (3 hour time frame)
<daftykins> i had a message from my brother asking if i did anything with bitcoin today
<daftykins> i lawl'd 'cause i don't understand it at all
<daftykins> he alluded to that common idea of leaving a box crunching away mining
<Azelphur> hehe
<daftykins> but i said that from what i had heard that tends to just offset against your electricity bill :D
<Azelphur> daftykins: that means that the value of 1 bitcoin has fluctuated between $267.21 and $352.12 over the past 3 hours
<Azelphur> almost $100 price fluctuation xD
<daftykins> oh i more meant the entire bitcoin phenomena
<daftykins> but ja, that's pretty mad
<Azelphur> which means my BTC holdings have fluctuated between $30729 and $40493
<Azelphur> ergo, I just lost, and regained, $10k value
<Azelphur> bitcoin is a fun little rollercoaster.
<daftykins> could you pull the trigger and cash-out instantly though? taxman aside
<Azelphur> yea
<Azelphur> well not super instantly, I'd have to boot up my laptop with the encrypted drive
<Azelphur> and transfer the funds into an exchange
<ali1234> what exchange was at $267??
<Azelphur> ali1234: bitstamp
<Azelphur> ali1234: http://bitcoinity.org/markets/bitstamp/USD
<ali1234> gox was at $381 earlier
<Azelphur> ali1234: yea, it's pre-crashing :)
<ali1234> i should add bitstamp to my thing
<ali1234> daftykins: mining was really profitable if you did it two years ago
<ali1234> it's impossible now
<ali1234> unless you have specialist hardware, which is almost impossible to buy
<Azelphur> unless you're me
<Azelphur> ali1234: part of me wonders if I should go lawsuit BFL for late shipping
<Azelphur> they cost me a boatload
<ali1234> you're lucky to even get anything
<Azelphur> true
<ali1234> you won't get anything from suing them, due to everyone else doing the same thing
<ali1234> so i'd say it's a waste of time
<Azelphur> amazingly, nobody else seems to be doing it
<Azelphur> ali1234: in other news, my channel has been taking great amusement at https://github.com/search?q=exec+sudo+%24_GET&type=Code
<Azelphur> I'm sure you'll enjoy it too xD
<ali1234> i don't get it
<Azelphur> ali1234: don't know PHP?
<ali1234> well obviously php cannot into sudo
<ali1234> if it's not interactive
<ali1234> unless the host is really badly configured
<ali1234> but other than that i don't get it
<Azelphur> ali1234: they probably nosudo'd it to get that code to work, I'd guess
<ali1234> wait
<ali1234> sudo $_GET
<ali1234> noooooooo
<ali1234> noooooooooooooooooooo
<ali1234>  /o\
<ali1234> exec anything with $_GET is bad enough, you can just inject your own sudo if you want
<Azelphur> ali1234: hahaha
<Azelphur> ali1234: you figured it out gz
<Azelphur> :P
<ali1234> hmm... it's now possible to have two gmail accounts open in tabs without one getting booted out
<ali1234> this is cool
<jussi> ali1234: welcome to 2011
<jussi> :P
<ali1234> well it never worked for me as recently as ... about 2 months ago
<jussi> ali1234: you just have to enable it
<jussi> up to 4 accounts at once
<ali1234> i did
<ali1234> it seems to have started working when they changed the login screen recently
<jussi> and then dont log out of the first one, you click the corner and click "add account"
<ali1234> yes, that
<ali1234> i was doing that months ago
<ali1234> if i had two gmail tabs open on the same account, and then clicked that to open a different one, the other tab would also be booted out
<popey> I'm still keeping separate browser windows for separate accounts
<MartijnVdS> I've started doing that as well
<Myrtti> need to do hangouts for work, so I've got them on a separate profile in chromium and my own stuff in firefox
<MartijnVdS> you can have 2 profiles inside chrom(e|ium), running at the same time (in different windows, like private mode)
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<Myrtti> Yeah
<Myrtti> I did use separate profiles on Firefox first
<nigelb> ali1234: Oh, yeah. It stopped working for me recently too.
 * nigelb needs to try again.
<Myrtti> but gdocs and hangouts work better on chromium, so I made a new profile for my work persona for chromium
<popey> I have 14 chromium personas
<popey> probably should shrink that a bit
<popey> mostly for separate random twitter accounts
<AlanBell> morning
 * AlanBell upgraded the home always-on server to 13.10
<AlanBell> and couldn't get it to boot with the new kernel, so is now using a raspberry pi instead :)
<brobostigon> i am an rpi doing loads of stuff, radvd, dlna, webcam server, get-iplayer repo.
<AlanBell> http://hencam.libertus.co.uk/video is now back up (the server does the html page around the image, and reverse proxies the image)
<brobostigon> cool.
<ali1234> i've probably asked this before, but is there any way to make xterm cat it's stdin?
<ali1234> eg to watch stderr on an interactive command: somecommand 2> $(xterm cat)
<AlanBell> why xterm?
<AlanBell> and not the tty device?
<ali1234> i dunno, just seemed logical
<AlanBell> if you do tty in the target xterm, then echo "foo" > /dev/pts/9   (or whatever) then it comes up
<ali1234> i could also use a named pipe, or a logfile and tail, but that's messy
<AlanBell> but that does require you to launch the target xterm and find the tty number
<dwatkins> AlanBell: I like your cluster idea, makes me wish I had the cash to burn so I could have you name it flibbertygibbet or something ;)
<AlanBell> :)
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: try ssh'ing into "supercalifragilisticexpialidocious"
<MartijnVdS> without tab-completion
<dwatkins> Host supercalifragilisticexpialidocious not found: 3(NXDOMAIN) ;)
<dwatkins> I was thinking more the name of the "let's compile Ubuntu for the ARM processor in the Raspberry Pi", but that would also be amusing.
<dwatkins> We used to have a mailserver called Sagittarius, but no-one knew how to spell it.
<MartijnVdS> "I name it `pwgen -sy 30 1`"
<AlanBell> 50 character limit :)
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: pwgen -sy 50 1 then
<AlanBell> yay
<penguin42> dwatkins: You're not trying if you don't get unicode into the hostname
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: ooh, Punycode :)
<dwatkins> Can you use unicode in DNS names?
<dwatkins> I vaguely remember reading it used to be allowed, but isn't any more, suggesting you can only use letters from "our" 26-letter alphabet.
<penguin42> I thought there were top level internationals?
<AlanBell> you can probably use it in a hostname
 * penguin42 boots a VM to try
<ali1234> reddit is letting gold buyers name servers now
<ali1234> one of them got named localhost
<penguin42> ouch
<penguin42> hmm hostname didn't like the fliptext I gave it
<penguin42> hmm, hostnamectl will set it
<penguin42> haha - but sethostname does !
<penguin42> as does avahi-set-host-name
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: Oh I hadn't read about punycode before - very neat
<shauno> there's sort of unicode dns names .. they get translated into ascii for lookups, which is a little mind bending
<shauno> eg, http://ð©.l
<shauno> or not.  ate that one bad lol
<penguin42> shauno: Yeh that's apparently the Punycode
<shauno> ah, I didn't know it had a name.  the only rfc I've seen it in just calls it ToAscii.  and then proceeds to warp your mind trying to explain how it works
<shauno> absolutely miserable here today, but I fear rain isn't going to be an acceptable excuse for avoiding the cinema :/
<penguin42> it's ok here today, yesterday was biblical - thunder, hail, localised flooding etc
<shauno> oh this isn't that bad, just "blah".  nonstop rain for the last 8 hours
<shauno> combined with sunday busses being run apparently by lottery, and my motivation to get into town is destroyed
<penguin42> http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/flooding-after-hail-rain-thunder-6288101
<shauno> heh, fun
<shauno> I haven't actually seen lightning since I moved here (2006).  strange place
<penguin42> blue skies today
<penguin42> where?
<shauno> west coast of ireland
<penguin42> so you watch the storms roll in off the atlantic, go past and dump it on us?
<shauno> when I was in the states, it seemed to be lightning all autumn.  sun all summer, and snow all winter.  all three are incredibly rare here
<penguin42> generally we don't get much extreme weather - it's all kind of meh
<shauno> I used to live in barrow (south lakes) .. I assume it's much of the same there
<penguin42> well, they don't call it lakes for nothing
<shauno> they call it lakes because it sounds much prettier than what it actually is ;)
<penguin42> barrow is the industrially bit isn't/wasn't it?
<shauno> it was.  it's now the unemployed bit.  built on ironworks & shipbuilding - neither of which are particularly strong industries anymore
<penguin42> nod
<shauno> about the only thing they have left is that we can't outsource the military, so they still build submarines
<penguin42> nod, I know someone who is an admin at a small ISP somewhere around there as well
<shauno> although last I heard, they still had europe's largest door.  which is a claim to fame I guess
<penguin42> ? Something for a submarine shed?
<shauno> yeah.  they're built indoors
<penguin42> wouldn't want them to get wet
<shauno> I Think it's kinda neat.  it's nice to think that our nuclear deterent is built by some northern lads in a shed
<penguin42> haha well if you put it like that
<dwatkins> I just broke my Windows 8 installation (deleted the D: drive whilst changing the linux swap partition size) - good job I don't really use nor care about it :)
<daftykins> D:
<daftykins> whoops
<dwatkins> Yeah, that was my reaction, followed by a shrug. I can't remember the last time I used it for anything but games.
<dwatkins> Time to move Ubuntu onto the SSD :D
<daftykins> i've still not even used 8 native - though i'd want to acquire an 8.1 ISO now
<dwatkins> I played Borderlands 2 and Homeworld 2 on it a bit, but they are easily reinstalled.
<dwatkins> My only dilemma now is whether Windows 8 can exist on the 2nd physical disk, which isn't an SSD.
<dwatkins> I'll either use this HOWTO or just reinstall 13.10 - https://help.ubuntu.com/community/MovingLinuxPartition
<daftykins> ah the ol' juggling fun :)
<dwatkins> Yeah, probably easier to just reinstall - might give Debian a try...
 * penguin42 is running Fedora/KDE on his main machine now - its' interesting, from a KDE perspective mostly the same, some places work better some worse
<dwatkins> I'd like to give Gnome 3 a try.
<penguin42> dwatkins: Well you can do that on any of them
<dwatkins> Yeah, it's the default on recent Debians, I gather, and I'm curious to see how well Steam runs on Debian, too.
<ali1234> how recent?
<dwatkins> Wheezy, I guess, ali1234.
<dwatkins> turns out the reason for all this is that I left my USB stick connected, so sda became the stick, and sdb and sdc are the new sda and sdb
<daftykins> erk
<penguin42> dwatkins: Yeh well the sd* naming is unspecified - you're not supposed to rely on them!
<dwatkins> Just goes to show you should always check before doing mkswap /dev/sdb2
<dwatkins> yeah, I remembered that afterwards, penguin42 ...
<penguin42> dwatkins: I just wanted to rub it in
<dwatkins> hehe
<dwatkins> all this was probably pointless, and I'll most likely discover that hibernation isn't working for some other reason, but at least I havn't lost anything important.
<daftykins> how might i recursively grep a folder of .php configs and other files for "10.10.10.10" appearing somewhere therein?
<daftykins> grep -r <string> * <-- is what i tried
<penguin42> grep -r '10[.]10[.]10[.]10' .
<daftykins> ah, the periods had to be escaped?
<penguin42> yeh because they'll match on anything
<daftykins> ah :) i just got nothing from either
<daftykins> ty though!
<penguin42> try it on a dummy text file first
<daftykins> i've just manually updated a wordpress site to the latest version but it still has issues connecting out
<dwatkins> Interestingly, Windows 8 recovered from my running mkswap on its C: drive, I guess it only wrote to the start of the partition.
<ali1234> mkswap doesn't do very much at all unless you actually mount the swap
<dwatkins> I added it, realised it was 10 times too big, then swapoff'ed it.
<dwatkins> s/added/mounted/
<dwatkins> Having 8 GB of RAM is kinda useful.
<thatgreenguy> admin python
<daftykins> ooh i finally have more error detail
<thatgreenguy> #python
<penguin42> thatgreenguy: You need to do   /join #python
<daftykins> [Sun Nov 10 17:42:32 2013] [error] [client 80.73.221.144] PHP Warning:  An unexpected error occurred. Something may be wrong with WordPress.org or this server's configuration. If you continue to have problems, please try the <a href="http://wordpress.org/support/">support forums</a>. (WordPress could not establish a secure connection to WordPress.org. Please contact your server administrator.) in .../wp-admin/includes/plugin-install
<daftykins> that's what i'm getting on my VPS
<daftykins> very, very odd
<penguin42> can it resolve wordpress.org?
<daftykins> yep, wget files, connect with both SSL and without
<daftykins> echo $http_proxy returns a blank line, so no proxy is set i assume
 * penguin42 knows neither wordpress or php, but is there any way to trace what it's doing - if all else fails tcpdump or strace?
<daftykins> that's an idea
<daftykins> not used tcpdump before mind you
<penguin42> daftykins: IMHO probably your easiest way if it's on a remote server is to use tcpdump to a file and then pull the file back to a local machine and poke at it with wireshark
<daftykins> sounds good
<daftykins> penguin42: hrmm i can see DNS queries in my captures to api.wordpress.org but after that i can't tell what's going on
<daftykins> i think it gets the DNS response but then i have no record of it communicating with it
<penguin42> daftykins: So you don't see it trying to open a connection to the IP it gets back?
<daftykins> no :S
<penguin42> hmm, can you open a connection to api.wordpress.org?
<daftykins> yeah i used wget to grab its' index before
<daftykins> via https
<daftykins> there was an odd packet immediately after the DNS queries though
<penguin42> do you see the DNS reply?
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/3cloqlhxdw6z8r6/cap.png
<daftykins> penguin42: what do you make of that?
<penguin42> daftykins: What's that 80.73.221.144 address - bbdhome2-221-144.network.sure.com ?
<daftykins> mine
<daftykins> i'm SSH'd in
<penguin42> ok, so did you have a web browser open and got an internal server error back?
<daftykins> yep
<daftykins> i performed my test action which errors, to try and get it to show packets of what it's up to
<daftykins> (in this case, searching for plugins - which goes off to the wordpress API site for results)
<penguin42> that I think is just part of that reply which you see in the full packet on the next line, it didn't fit in one ether (TCP?) packet
<daftykins> hrmm
<penguin42> daftykins: I don't see anything wrong there - maybe the AAAA lookups aren't helping, but I doubt it
<daftykins> hmm an IPv4 vs. v6 quirk?
<penguin42> maybe, but I doubt it - you can see it's doing IPv4 DNS lookups for both the IPv4 and IPv6 addresses, and only getting an IPv4 address back (is my reading) - so that should be OK?
<penguin42> daftykins: But it doesn't look like it's then trying to open any connection
<daftykins> indeed, it's like it gives up
<daftykins> thanks penguin42 - i've no idea who to ask this of next :S
<daftykins> actually maybe if i create a test site
<penguin42> a php person I think
<daftykins> i can see if a stock one works
<daftykins> hehe
<MartijnVdS> Yay!
<MartijnVdS> Just ordered some EP I've wanted for *years*
<MartijnVdS> (but that wasn't available)
<penguin42> you mean one of those vinyl things?
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: no, a CD (the digital edition exists, but is missing a track)
<penguin42> oh, that's ok then - of what?
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: http://www.nerinapallot.com/shop2/?productDetails.cfm?Basket=1@,&ProductID=1500
<MartijnVdS> that one :)
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: Never heard of her - but ... Buckminster fuller as a song....
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7eclTcAht0
<shauno> what's that 500 Server Error on the line below the one highlighted?
<MartijnVdS> shauno: which one?
<MartijnVdS> shauno: oh you're reading backlog
<shauno> sorry, the screencap of wireshark
<shauno> ah yeah, didn't notice that was 90 mins ago
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: How bizarre
<penguin42> shauno: I think that's the result of the reassembly of the one that's highlighted ?
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: I drove to Cornwall to see her last May. She's great :)
<penguin42> from where?
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: from my place in the Netherlands
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: so.. here to Rotterdam, then Harwich to Land's End
<penguin42> wow
<daftykins> shauno: are you good with wordpress and related shenanigans?
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: I needed a few days off anyway, drove down (and back up) over 3-4 days :)
<shauno> not particularly  lol
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: (so a week total)
<daftykins> shauno: the next packet was just the web server coming back with the error page that it can't contact wordpress' API domain
<popey> Evening.
<shauno> I was just curious where the 500 was coming from, because there'd be more logged on the server for that
<shauno> ah
<daftykins> shauno: this is the issue i've been fighting with tonight, both the real site and a test wordpress site can't talk to wordpress.org on my bigv VPS
<daftykins> i've asked the web dev that made the site but he's stumped
<shauno> it almost looks like 'happy eyeballs' going wrong
<daftykins> huh? :)
<shauno> this practice of sending A & AAAA requests together instead of sequentially
<daftykins> hmm
<daftykins> any thoughts on how to rule that out from testing?
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: disable IPv4 xor IPv6
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: if that makes it work, you've found the problem
<shauno> pretty much, yeah :/
<daftykins> ooh - can i stop apache running on IPv6 0o
<daftykins> would that work maybe? or does the PHP code being system level still see interfaces and get results etc.
<shauno> (or making it try to hit a host that does have an AAAA record)
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: you need to deconfigure the address, or libc will magically send AAAA and A requests
<shauno> the crashcourse on 'happy eyeballs' is that originally the RFCs said you queried AAAA first and A if it returned negative, if you have a native (not-teredo, etc) v6 route.
<shauno> which was a great plan until real life showed up, and sticking that delay on every single v4 query sucked.  so now they have a scheme where they send them in parallel
<daftykins> :>
<daftykins> perhaps it not getting an answer for both is indeed, why it seems to give up trying
<shauno> well, I'm not getting a v6 for wordpress.org either
<daftykins> and api.wordpress.org ?
<shauno> is just a cname to wordpress.org
<shauno> I gotta pop out :/  but on that, it is the dns I'd be looking at, because there's no outgoing connections after the response
<shauno> it gets the dns response, and then complains.  rather than trying to connect to anything at all, and then complaining
<daftykins> *nod*
<daftykins> thanks shauno
<daftykins> i echo'd 1 to /proc/sys/net/ipv6/conf/eth0/disable_ipv6
<daftykins> the interface lost its' v6 config
<daftykins> but no change has been had
<penguin42> that's not the problem you had - the problem was it was doing an IPv4 lookup for IPv6 addresses
<penguin42> so that's DNS config - although I actually doubt it's the problem you had
<daftykins> oh?
<penguin42> daftykins: Yeh all the packets were on IPv4 addresses, but it was sending a AAAA DNS lookup which is for IPv6 addresses
<penguin42> (but since it got a reply to the A query, that's why I'm saying I doubt it's the problem - but it's possible)
<daftykins> sorry i must be being daft here, i see it sent both queries then it got the v4 replies - isn't that normal?
<MartijnVdS> it is
<daftykins> MartijnVdS: have you seen the pic in question?
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/3cloqlhxdw6z8r6/cap.png
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: yes, the server replies "500" which means something on the server doesn't like the request
<MartijnVdS> the request is sent, and is responded to
<daftykins> nah that's the error page saying it was unable to contact the API at wordpress
<daftykins> the thing i'm doing on the site (searching for a plugin) trips out
<daftykins> "WordPress could not establish a secure connection to WordPress.org. Please contact your server administrator."
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: it doesn't do anything but a DNS request, before it determines it can't connect to WP?
<daftykins> correct
<daftykins> highly suspicious isn't it?
<MartijnVdS> maybe you don't have php-ssl installed? :)
<MartijnVdS> or whatever PHP uses to talk SSL
<MartijnVdS> ("secure connection")
<daftykins> i can't see a relevant package
<MartijnVdS> because it's not even sending a SYN to open a connection to one of the IPs it receives from the DNS lookup
<daftykins> indeed
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: the openssl-module is included with php, but your extensions.ini might have it disabled
<MartijnVdS> can you ping the address? (api.wordpress.org)
<MartijnVdS> 66.155.30.{249,250}
<daftykins> yep and wget the index
<MartijnVdS> using https?
<daftykins> yep
<MartijnVdS> or plain old http
<daftykins> wget https://api.wordpress.org
<daftykins> 2013-11-10 20:31:00 (108 MB/s) - `index.html' saved [442]
<MartijnVdS> I think it's suspicious that you get the 500 error before it even *tries* to connect (i.e. send a SYN packet) to those addresses
<MartijnVdS> unless you filtered those from the capture
<MartijnVdS> I have a bigv.io VM, let me try.
<daftykins> ty :)
<daftykins> i created a fresh 3.7.1 wordpress instance which still has the same issue
<MartijnVdS> ah wait
<MartijnVdS> I'd need to set up mysql and everything for that wouldn't I
<daftykins> yeah :(
<daftykins> i chose debian for mine - is there a wise meta package i can install that might cover any potential deps?
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: wordpress? 8-)
<daftykins> haha
<MartijnVdS> $ apt-cache show wordpress
<MartijnVdS> Package: wordpress
<MartijnVdS> Priority: optional
<daftykins> well no i'm using their auto management thing
<daftykins> so things would no doubt berak
<daftykins> *break
<MartijnVdS> sure but apt-cache show shows you what the Debian dev thinks are the dependencies
<daftykins> *nod* i just ran:  apt-cache showpkg wordpress
<MartijnVdS> just use "show", showpkg is unreadable ;)
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: is that wireshark dump filtered at all?
<daftykins> no, but i'm a newbie when it comes to the tcpdump command i used to create it
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: tcpdump -i eth0 -w dumpfile
<MartijnVdS> should be enough
<daftykins> tcpdump -nnvvw capture3.cap i ran
<MartijnVdS> that's extra verbose and no DNS lookups by tcpdump itself
<daftykins> *nod*
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: you could write a small PHP program and run it on the cli
<daftykins> The following extra packages will be installed: libjs-prototype libjs-scriptaculous
<daftykins> The following NEW packages will be installed: libjs-cropper libjs-prototype libjs-scriptaculous libphp-phpmailer libphp-snoopy
<daftykins> those were missing but nothing has changed as a result
<MartijnVdS>  Some of Snoopy's features:
<MartijnVdS>  .
<MartijnVdS>   * easily fetch the contents of a web page
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> classic
<daftykins> same issue even now
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: do you get "An unexpected error occurred. Something may be wrong with WordPress.org or this server's configuration"
<daftykins> yep
<daftykins> i've poured over the results in google regarding it
<daftykins> nothing seems relevant
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: This might be the culprit:
<MartijnVdS>                         'sslcertificates' => ABSPATH . WPINC . '/certificates/ca-bundle.crt',
<MartijnVdS> does that exist?
<MartijnVdS> it should..
<daftykins> whereabouts are you looking?
<MartijnVdS> wordpress/ root
<MartijnVdS> just downloaded the tarball
<daftykins> there are no certs at all, no
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: you could put a "strace -f -p xxx -p yyy" on all your httpd processes (xxx, yyy are the PIDs, add more as needed)
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: uh
<MartijnVdS> strace -f -o outputfile
<daftykins> hang on it's meant to be in /wp-includes/
<MartijnVdS> -p xxx -p yyy
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: it is: ABSPATH is the absolute path to wordpress/, WPINC is the wp-includes dir
<MartijnVdS> the strace might contain useful information (what it tries/gets back) for API access
<MartijnVdS> it's a bit low-level
<daftykins> what's the location of that path reference for me to check?
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: wordpress/wp-includes/certificates/ca-bundle.crt
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: should all be readable (not writable!) by the user php runs as (www-data?)
<daftykins> ah-haaaa permissions, let's give that a whirl
<daftykins> my site is actually in /srv/domain.com/public/htdocs/
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: though it's not even trying to create a connection (let alone an SSL connection), so either it aborts before trying (because it can't find the file) or something weird is going on
<daftykins> *nod*
<daftykins> so the strace plan could be a good one
<daftykins> ok i'll give that one a whirl after i make some food
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: it might be overkill, is there anything in your errorlog? (httpd)
<daftykins> [Sun Nov 10 20:48:02 2013] [warn] RSA server certificate is a CA certificate (BasicConstraints: CA == TRUE !?)
<daftykins> that crops up
<MartijnVdS> is that *your* https cert, or the remote end?
<daftykins> none of my domains possess certs as far as i know
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: but apache is still instructed to load one.. maybe the snakeoil one
<MartijnVdS> the default always-installed one
<daftykins> i wonder if i can justk ill it
<MartijnVdS> a2dismod ssl
<popey> I pulled a tenner out of my pocket and noticed some scribbles all over it...
<popey> http://i.imgur.com/ra8r3Ka.jpg
<daftykins> MartijnVdS: bytemark's symbiosis thing, has SSLEngine enabled within its' sites-available config
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: ah you use that? :)
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: I just installed Ubuntu server on mine ;)
<daftykins> yeah atop debian
<daftykins> alright i'm really burnt out on this now
<daftykins> time for food
<daftykins> MartijnVdS: thanks for your help thus far - if you have any further ideas i'd be pleased :>
<daftykins> popey: how rude
<daftykins> sidenote: do any clothes shops in London stay open late on a Sunday night? 0o
<penguin42> are they allowed to?
<popey> unlikely
<popey> most places close at 4pm
<diddledan> daftykins: just a wild guess, is php5-curl installed?
<diddledan> however, php errors should be logged somewhere, so a 500 error should have something in a logfile to explain why wordpress failed
<daftykins> diddledan: yep it is - i enabled PHP logging to file, but didn't get anything produced when repeating the action
<daftykins> which i found very odd :S
<diddledan> daftykins: you could try editing your wp-config.php and add `define('WP_DEBUG', true); define('WP_DEBUG_LOG', true); define('WP_DEBUG_DISPLAY', false);` and rerun. the debug log is in "wordpress/wp-content/debug.log" <-- remember to delete it once done because it can leak information
<daftykins> diddledan: roger that! i'll do it on my test site, i had seen that idea but hadn't gotten around to it for whatever reason
<daftykins> diddledan: it's not writing anything new compared with the apache error log :(
<daftykins> still just: "WordPress could not establish a secure connection to WordPress.org. Please contact your server administrator."
<diddledan> hmm
<diddledan> is there nothing preceeding that statement?
<daftykins> [10-Nov-2013 21:54:07] PHP Warning:  An unexpected error occurred. Something may be wrong with WordPress.org or this server&#8217;s configuration. If you continue to have problems, please try the <a href="http://wordpress.org/support/">support forums</a>. (WordPress could not establish a secure connection to WordPress.org. Please contact your server administrator.) in /srv/test.com/public/htdocs/wp-admin/includes/plugin-install.php 
<daftykins> that's the full sucker
<diddledan> daftykins: can you try running http://pastebin.com/SERmAPbF which should output the full headers in addition to the html from a connection to wordpress.org
<diddledan> if that fails but still doesn't telll us why, we can amend it to add some more error reporting
<daftykins> would i just put that in a file and run "php file" ?
<diddledan> yes please :-)
<diddledan> it'll make a nice mess in your terminal - I've written it to be runnable in a browser, too
<daftykins> not sure if this is an issue but i re-ran it outputting to a file
<daftykins> PHP Warning:  Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output started at /srv/test.com/public/htdocs/file:3) in /srv/test.com/public/htdocs/file on line 12
<daftykins> and got told that
<diddledan> that's fine
<diddledan> that's because I used header() in the php file
<daftykins> http://pastebin.com/WSFq6UCN
<daftykins> diddledan: there she be ^
<diddledan> ok, that says that php can successfullly connect to wordpress.org - it gets weirderer
<daftykins> ^_^
<diddledan> try plopping it on your test site and running it via the browser to confirm whether it's able to do it when run through apache
<daftykins> was naming it file.php and visiting path/file.php correct?
<diddledan> yup
<daftykins> as i just get a blank page
<daubers> Evening
<diddledan> aha, that's interesting
<diddledan> I've written a two-line modification to force it to output errors to the browser: http://pastebin.com/q6kUzWDt do the same as before to run it via a browser
<daftykins> i'm pasting into nano over SSH with KiTTY and getting a lot of green squares - that likely to be a problem?
<diddledan> ooh
<diddledan> erm
<diddledan> that doesn't sound right
<daftykins> i manually typed it out and still get blank :O
<diddledan> hmm
<diddledan> try putting a "print 'finished';" at the bottom underneath the print $output line
<diddledan> that was we can tell whether I've messed up my code :-p
<diddledan> way*
<daftykins> yep it returned 'finished'
<daftykins> :S
<daftykins> what is it doing D:
<daftykins> diddledan: any further thoughts :)
<daftykins> +?
<diddledan> I'm just gonna do a bit of experimentation on my vps
<daftykins> is it the content type throwing it?
<diddledan> nope, it works fine on my ubuntu 12.04 virtual machine
<daftykins> are you expecting to see the HTML text or will it show the actual page?
<diddledan> the text
<diddledan> along with headers at the top
<daftykins> yeah it works at command line but apache2 is doing something
<daftykins> could a funky php-suhosin status be causing it?
<diddledan> it might be an issue with suhosin
<daftykins> (i'm unsure whether it's on, off, or partially there at the moment)
<diddledan> alternatively apache may not have been restarted since php5-curl was installed?
<daftykins> it was definitely already installed
<diddledan> or alternatively there might be php.ini differences between the apache2 and cli iterations
<daftykins> my /etc/php5/apache2/php.ini is actually autocreated by the bytemark symbiosis system i'm using
<diddledan> dang
<daftykins> but it's there and readable
<daftykins> shall i pastebin it?
<diddledan> worth a try
<daftykins> http://pastebin.com/KUt47XKS
<diddledan> nothing seems out of the ordinary there
<daftykins> hang on /usr/bin/php /usr/bin/php5
<daftykins> no difference with either 0o
<daftykins> /usr/bin/php -> /etc/alternatives/php
<daftykins> 0o
<daftykins> symlink^
<diddledan> `man update-alternatives` tells you about that mechanism
<diddledan> on my ubuntu the /etc/alternatives/php points to /usr/bin/php5
<daftykins> ah yes :)
<daftykins> well i'm glad i don't seem to have done anything too stupid
<daftykins> would it help if i let you have a look at my test domain at all?
<diddledan> it might
<daftykins> http://test.com.testing.togusa.default.kusanagi.uk0.bigv.io/file2.php
<daftykins> there's where i created the file
<diddledan> lurvely url :-p
<daftykins> hah yeah, crazy bigv domains are soooo long
<daftykins> then test.com.testing for my little fake domain
<diddledan> ok, I've been reading up on suhosin - it might be logging to /var/log/messages
<daftykins> i think i managed to fully remove it
<daftykins> php5-suhosin got removed
<diddledan> sorry, I mena /var/log/syslog
<diddledan> hmm
<diddledan> did you restart apache after?
<daftykins> yep
<diddledan> and yet it's still failing. I was working on the assumption that we'd proven that php itself can do the job
<daftykins> *nod*
<diddledan> it doeswn't make sense >.<
<daftykins> something is highly screwy isn't it
<daftykins> perhaps i should fire something off to bytemark and just see if i've done something stupid that their symbiosis system gets affected by?
<diddledan> I don't suppose it can hurt
<diddledan> they might be able to help
<daftykins> is there any other form of test i can have php perform atop apache?
<mgdm> what's going on, and did you turn selinux off?
<mgdm> if indeed it's on...
<daftykins> how would i tell on this debian VPS?
<mgdm> ah, that's probably a no
<daftykins> win \o/
<mgdm> I don't have a page up button - can you explain (in PM if you like) what's up?
<daftykins> basically wordpress isn't able to contact its' API address, in order to get some results
<Azelphur> Seeker`: I got the arduino out...and I UNKILLED IT.
<daftykins> (e.g. plugin searches)
<daftykins> mgdm: diddledan kindly helped create a test PHP file that pulls the target page down, it works at CLI, but not from behind apache
<mgdm> Oh, it's wordpress. hmmm. :-) So - do you know what mechanism it's using? curl? file_get_contents?
<daftykins> https://github.com/WordPress/WordPress/blob/master/wp-admin/includes/plugin-install.php
<daftykins> i believe that's the one in question
<mgdm> holy moley
<mgdm> it sends seriazed PHP to another host, which then unserializes it
<daftykins> line 77 is what keeps getting flagged as the issue
<daftykins> well you know, where it breaks from
<mgdm> i'm trying to find the source of wp_http
<diddledan> https://github.com/WordPress/WordPress/blob/master/wp-includes/http.php
<diddledan> not sure where the calss is tho
<diddledan> class*
<mgdm> I found it
<mgdm> https://github.com/WordPress/WordPress/blob/70fd806759b7a18d45950eb2c368e15949f1ef21/wp-includes/class-http.php
<daftykins> ooh i'm getting more content in tcpdump now
<mgdm> whaaat
<mgdm> this impleents its own HTTP client using fsockopen()
<mgdm> what the *hell* are these guys smoking?
<daftykins> it appears to be getting TCP resets when awaiting its' reply
<daftykins> maybe it is firewall after all...?
<mgdm> seems that way
<daftykins> omg.
<daftykins> i just flushed iptables and it works
<mgdm> heh
<diddledan> >.<
<diddledan> don't you hate that
<daftykins> sorry about that guys, but earlier tcpdump wasn't even showing anything beyond the DNS queries
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/3cloqlhxdw6z8r6/cap.png
<daftykins> in my earlier capture ^
<daftykins> ok so now i need to look into what's blocking the response :D
<daftykins> diddledan + mgdm thanks guys, i think i'm going to call it a night there before i go crazier with it
<diddledan> lol
<mgdm> hehe, fair enough
<daftykins> g'night everyone \o
<daftykins> thank you to all those who helped
<daftykins> dafty in mountain out of a molehill situation
<daftykins> ^_^
#ubuntu-uk 2014-11-03
<map> morning
<Myrtti> moin
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<diplo> Morning all
<brobostigon> morning diplo
<MooDoo> morning all
<zmoylan-pi> greetings mammals
<popey> Word.
 * Myrtti prods Google Play
<Myrtti> ship it, damnit
<DJones> !shipit
<lubotu3> Canonical is no longer sending free Ubuntu CDs to individuals through its ShipIt program.  For more information please see http://blog.canonical.com/?p=551 !LoCo teams can request CDs through this link https://forms.canonical.com/lococd/
<MooDoo> Myrtti: you need some cds?
<zmoylan-pi> cd's/dvd's/wrist watches? :-p
<Myrtti> MooDoo: no, just the Nexus 9
<DJones> MooDoo: I doubt it, was me using the shipit factoid because she's waiting for a delivery
<DJones> Yay, microsd cards ordered for phones & tablets
<MooDoo> ah
<czajkowski> aloha
<MooDoo> howdy czajkowski
<MartijnV1S> \o/ new dinner table lights
<MartijnV1S> Thanks, IKEA
<czajkowski> hows folks
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Monday, and happy ClichÃ© Day! :-D
<zmoylan-pi> halloween is over and the crimbo shopping frenzy has begun...
<JamesTait> zmoylan-pi, not in this house it hasn't - the birthday panic has taken over.
<zmoylan-pi> an amazon gift card... :-p
<MartijnVdS> a pre-paid VISA card
<zmoylan-pi> nothing says you care like money :-p
<davmor2> JamesTait: Time will tell if this a day full of clichÃ©s or not
<MooDoo> davmor2: today is full on fail
<foobarry> does deleting a video from my phone gallery also delete it from g+ auto backup?
<davmor2> MooDoo: TouchÃ©
<BigRedS> foobarry: not IME
<foobarry> BigRedS: within the photos app it warns that it will delete everywhere
<zmoylan-pi> the nsa will keep a copy :-p
<SuperEngineer> zmoylan-pi, "FBI secretly seek legal power to hack any computer, anywhere. Don't you feel safer already?"
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<BigRedS> foobarry: ooh, odd. I've not seen that warning, and I'm sure I've had photos I deleted still be on the g+ backup thing
<zmoylan-pi> when i see a dozen processes hogging ram on a computer i just hope that at least 1 is working FOR me :-)
<SuperEngineer> ;)
<funkyHat> I think it does from the google+ photos app, but if you delete from another gallery app on your phone then g+ will keep the backup
<funkyHat> But yeah, certain definitions of delete and all that.
<davmor2> SuperEngineer: Yes I feel safe if they want access to my machine they are welcome, they will of course get very bored very quickly give in and move onto the next machine there are only so many isos and images of ubuntu that even the FBI would want to look at :)
<TwistedLucidity> If the FBI hack my computer I will consider that an act of breaking and entering. I will respond with all force necessary to defend myself. i.e. I might sent a barbed tweet or something....
<TwistedLucidity> It's a sick sad world when the police are seeking permission to become criminals.
<TwistedLucidity> Well...seeking to get things they have already done rubber-stamped as "Ok"
<Myrtti> meh. get-iplayer is broken :-|
<Azelphur> davmor2: I wouldn't want some random FBI employee of dubious morals with access to all my money
<Azelphur> fuck that
<Azelphur> oops, bad language for this channel
<TwistedLucidity> Myrtti: Yes, the BBC changed the interface. The URLs still work and need plugged in maunally for the moment. I've heard tell a fix is in the pipeline (probably site scraping).
<TwistedLucidity> Kinda sucks.
<popey> Myrtti: already fixed upstream
<popey> https://github.com/dinkypumpkin/get_iplayer/releases
<foobarry> http://www.downforeveryoneorjustme.com/http://www.londonlibraries.gov.uk
<foobarry> fail.
<foobarry> their systems are always down
<popey> fine here
<popey> down4everyone says it's down, but it works
<foobarry> down her
<foobarry> e
<zmoylan-pi> reddit went down for me for 2-3 mins.  something to do with dns thingy?
<foobarry> its been down all day, maybe a routuing thing then
<foobarry> traceroute fails after 86.188.224.92
<Myrtti> I suppose I'll have to compile it myself.
<BigRedS> I don't think that's how reddit works
<BigRedS> :)
<popey> its perl, I don't think there's any compiling to do is there?
<BigRedS> oh, get_iplayer? I thought that 'only' broke because they turned off the rss? So rewriting more than recompiling
<bigcalm> I haven't touched get_iplayer for so many years now. It's just worked for the programmes I want to listen to. Wonder if I should update or not
<davmor2> Azelphur: no why on earth not,  the first time they abuse the system the system will rebel against them and then it all gets shut down :)  They couldn't afford the lawsuits
<popey> i just extracted the get_iplayer script from the zip file and put it in ~/bin
<popey> works for me
<Azelphur> davmor2: you mean like all the other times they've abused the system and absolutely nothing has happened
<BigRedS> I think a simple --get --pid works, but apparently the smarter stuff doesn't because that was dependent upon RSS feeds
<popey> yeah
<davmor2> Azelphur: people care about their money though and Americans Sue at the drop of a hat
<Azelphur> davmor2: nobody has taken it anywhere, even when it got to the corporate espionage the NSA are involved in.
<Azelphur> they can and do routinely steal money, private data, etc from companies and private individuals, and very little is actually done to prevent it
<Azelphur> same goes for bank employees too
<Azelphur> although bank employees at least tend to get caught eventually
<Azelphur> assuming they aren't too high up the food chain
<foobarry> ZZ
<TwistedLucidity> Azelphur: Once you have enough money, you can buy the justice (and tax regualtions) you think you deserve.
<Azelphur> indeed
<Azelphur> mostly I was just pointing out that people shouldn't have the "I don't care if they look at my stuff" attitude
<bigcalm> Updating fa7d46f..3e1f09d
<andyc> bots
<andyc> oops just opened xchat and this channel popped up, as you were
<bigcalm> popey: do you have rtmpdump installed?
<bigcalm> I'm sure I shouldn't be spending my afternoon trying to fix the dependancies on my server so that I can update packages
<popey> i do
<map> hi all
<map> so tired ;[
<bigcalm> Yay, programmes are downloading again
<map> yay
<map> on what
<TwistedLucidity> get_iplayer
 * TwistedLucidity assumes
<SuperEngineer> map - the clue was in "programmes" rather than programs ;)
<davmor2> SuperEngineer: oh he is getting football leaflets
<map> =]
<SuperEngineer> :D
<map> i might go to a soccer ball mach tonight
<map> not decided
<SuperEngineer> [what's football]... The program 'football' is currently not installed.
<SuperEngineer> ;)
<map> heh
<map> free entry is only reason id consider it
<TwistedLucidity> The program 'football' is currently not installed. You can install it by typing:
<TwistedLucidity> sudo apt-get install sgb
<SuperEngineer> yeah... saw that - resisted the tempation though
<davmor2> Well it could be a Show or Opera Leaflet I suppose if you don't like the thought of it being football :P
<SuperEngineer> or the promme for the upcoming Led Zeppelin reunion
 * SuperEngineer imagine various [fruitless] searches going on right now ;)
<davmor2> SuperEngineer: Shouldn't be too hard, they already know a woman who bought a stairway to heaven right?
<SuperEngineer> davmor2,  no.  she's still "buying a stairway to heaven" last I heard
<SuperEngineer> [perhaps "she" should try Kickstarter!]  ;)
<MooDoo> is she from the darkest depths of mordor?
<SuperEngineer> no, we wouldn't let her in - you should have the insults!
<SuperEngineer> ...all the talk was "buy this, buy that, buy a carpet, buy a stairway to heaven".... we're only here for the peace & quiet!
<SuperEngineer> What's SMPlayer for Youtube is really for - downloading Jono Bacon's "Dealing With Disrespect"
<SuperEngineer> [next instalment - translating bad grammar on IRC]  ;)
 * SuperEngineer refers to self there
<Myrtti> \o/ They've shipped it \o/
<vad3rman1156> stupid question, where is aldeshot in the uk?
<foobarry> roughly?
<vad3rman1156> aldershot*
<vad3rman1156> yeah
<foobarry> surrey, nr guildford/woking/farnham
<foobarry> army town
<vad3rman1156> hmm my tab s is there
<Myrtti> at 8.30 o'clock if London is the centre
<vad3rman1156> Myrtti: ?
<Myrtti> or 7.30
<vad3rman1156> huh?
<davmor2> vad3rman1156: maps.google.com maybe
<vad3rman1156> google won't load :/
<Myrtti> vad3rman1156: put london in the middle, then smack an analogue watch face on it. Zoom out, you'll see Aldershot in the lower left quadrant of that watch face.
<Myrtti> ie. south west from Londond.
<Myrtti> -d
<popey> vad3rman1156: http://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/269754#map=17/51.24650/-0.76061
<vad3rman1156> oh thanks
<bigcalm> Does this read well? "I believe that it is Lyndsey John with whom this matter should be discussed."
<bigcalm> Or even correctly?
<foobarry> sort of
<foobarry> i would probably word it differently
<foobarry> more directly
<bigcalm> I don't know if it's that lady that the matter should be discussed with
<foobarry> then... I believe Lyndsey John may be the person to contact regarding this matter?
<vad3rman1156> ^much better
<bigcalm> Fair enough, ta
<bigcalm> I've cc'd her, just in case :)
<Myrtti> "oops" http://gizmodo.com/report-a-flaw-in-visas-contactless-card-lets-anyone-ch-1653974432
<bigcalm> Yay
<bigcalm> So glad I don't have any such cards
<Myrtti> I don't either, but I already have a purse that blocks it
<Myrtti> http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00JCCD0SG
<zmoylan-pi> just a standard lead lining would deal with skimming wireless cards and a few unwitting muggers :-)
<DJones> Strange, just booted into my bios, according to that my laptop has something akin to Herpes, Direct quote from bios "Windows Licence - STD", may just be me, but "STD" has a pretty obvious and unwelcome association
<zmoylan-pi> maybe you have symantec antivirus installed? :-)
<DJones> In bios?
<zmoylan-pi> i wouldn't trust symantec at all these days :-p
<SuperEngineer> Symantec Transmitted Disease???
<SuperEngineer> http://fabsh.com/last-stand/  [sad news]
<zmoylan-pi> just popped into #sixgun for first time in a year, down to 50 folk
<SuperEngineer> 563 actually - & I'm proud to be one of those
<SuperEngineer> whoops [meant to type 53]
<SuperEngineer> [wishful thinking
<SuperEngineer> http://danlynch.org/blog/2014/11/nothing-lasts-forever/
<bigcalm> http://imgur.com/gallery/Pa3gL
<popey> hmm, i expected photos of an ikea bookshelf unit
<bigcalm> popey: https://www.dropbox.com/sc/isi4g7zvw2fdci6/AABwuTh1A8MvvP-soezjCAvZa
<bigcalm> popey: just erected
<popey> nice floor
<popey> i spy virgin cable connection
<bigcalm> You spy correctly
<bigcalm> Floor is okay, I prefer carpets. At least we have a nice rug now
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> yeah i've taken to permanently wearing socks to combat wooden floor and tiled cold
<bigcalm> We wear slippers at home
<daftykins> never been a fan personally :)
<Myrtti> rugs > carpets
<directhex> EXPEDIT!
<directhex> they don't do those anymore.
<popey> yeah, i have 3 pairs of slippers I never wear
<daftykins> popey: in-laws christmas presents? :D
<popey> heh
<popey> one of them, yes
<popey> I tend to be barefoot or socks (if I remember to put them on) around the house
<zmoylan-pi> some sort of tux slippers perhaps? :-)
<popey> nope â»
<bigcalm> Hayley has a foot phobia, so sockless if not an option
<popey> wat wat
<bigcalm> In the ...
<bigcalm> Time to shop at Tesco :D
<popey> we just did that
<popey> \o/ online shopping
<bigcalm> Working from home means going shopping is a chance to escape
<popey> haha
<bigcalm> Lets try not to buy any doughnuts this time
<popey> mmmm forbidden doughnuts
<popey> http://drool.popey.com/
<czajkowski> http://www.lczajkowski.com/2014/11/03/new-challenges-and-adventure-awaits/  \o/
<popey> -!- andylockran [~andy@80.229.11.208] has quit [DISGUSTED]
<zmoylan-pi> tescos do a nice custard donut
<daftykins> czajkowski: good luck in the new role, ma'am
<zmoylan-pi> congrats czajkowski
<czajkowski> thanks
<czajkowski> popey: oh was that me ?
<popey> hehe, no â»
<czajkowski> popey: what new laptop have you gone with ?
<czajkowski> see if you can save me time doing research :)
<popey> czajkowski: I haven't yet.
<czajkowski> bah
<czajkowski> oh could get a XPS 13 direct fro dell with Ubuntu on it
<daftykins> Do Dell refer to 14.04 now?
<popey> i think the xps13 still ships with 12.04
<popey> czajkowski: yeah, that machine is on my list
<czajkowski> 12.04
<czajkowski> aye
<daftykins> ugh
<popey> also the thinkpad t440s is also on the list
<popey> the touch one
<popey> http://shop.lenovo.com/gb/en/laptops/thinkpad/t-series/t440s/
<daftykins> my problem with Lenovo is their whitelisting of wifi cards and so on :(
<daftykins> but then you just make sure you get a good one to start with ;)
<popey> i can see why they do it
<popey> silly regulations
<daftykins> how's that?
<popey> they get the entire device fcc certified
<popey> device + antenna
<popey> not just the device
<popey> the theory being they assure it's fcc certified if approved wifi device is used with matched antennal
<popey> -l
<daftykins> *nod*
<daftykins> popey: this old macbook i mentioned, did you say you know of someone running ubuntu on such a device? curious how they might overcome the touchpad woes
<popey> no, he runs osx
<daftykins> ah ok
<popey> an aged black macbook
<daftykins> :D
<popey> very cool looking device, i can see why he keeps it
<daftykins> they seem pretty darn sturdy
<popey> yeah
<popey> i want thinkpad guts inside one of those cases
<brobostigon> powerpc or x86?
<daftykins> you may want to mute this one https://www.dropbox.com/s/kvehuk00lweboou/VID_20141031_212154.mp4?dl=0
<daftykins> a notification came in whilst i was recording XD
<popey> pretty
<daftykins> brobostigon: x86, intel macs
<brobostigon> daftykins: ah, i see
<daftykins> that's 14.04 booting on an SSD in a late 2007 core 2 duo macbook
<popey> pretty quick to login screen
<daftykins> yeah :) it's a pretty rubbish SSD too
<popey> heh
<daftykins> some sandisk that came out of a friends samsung 9 series ultrabook
<daftykins> ooh more heavy rain
<daftykins> shame Â£90 for a battery and Â£50 for a mains adapter kind of makes it not worth fixing up
<czajkowski> popey: any idea on battery life for the Xps?
<popey> dunno, ask laura cowen, she has one
<czajkowski> ah good to know
<czajkowski> really do not want a mac
<popey> heh
 * brobostigon says "blaspheme" in a dalek like voice.
<daftykins> judging by the macbook, it looks difficult to get a keyboard map that the keyboard properly matches
<daftykins> so sticking to OS X seems easiest, which i detest :)
<brobostigon> try darwin, or netbsd, :)
<daftykins> naaaah i doubt one could get anything done with those
<brobostigon> why? both run normal sw, xorg, etc, why not.
<daftykins> i don't run desktop Linux at all.
<daftykins> on my daily drivers, that is
<brobostigon> i spend half my days in haiku now.
<czajkowski> ohh Karen Gillian is on a new show. first I've seen of her since Doctor Who
<brobostigon> only things i really used debian for now, are SL, MC and openoffice.
<brobostigon> use*
<brobostigon> including on servers and rpi.
<brobostigon> and ubuntu server, also.
<brobostigon> however in theory haiku could run MC, as it does have a stable port of openjdk.
<BigRedS> Ah, I was just wondering what MC was. I assumed it wasn't midnight commander :) Minecraft, presumably?
<brobostigon> yes, minecraft
<brobostigon> although, they do have a midnight commander port.
<directhex> brobostigon, but does it have a stable port of lwjgl?
<brobostigon> directhex: i do not know, not that i have seen.
<daftykins> on a completely off topic note, has anyone noticed vodafone getting worse and worse in the UK for mobile phone reception?
<daftykins> a client has a business contract and seems to be getting ever decreasing quality of service from vodafone
<popey> BED TIME!
<shauno> but muuuuum
<popey> I doubt jaiku will run minecraft
<popey> there's platform specific binary chunks
#ubuntu-uk 2014-11-04
<bigcalm> czajkowski: congrats on the new job. I thought Matt was in that role though?
<MooDoo> morning all
<czajkowski> bigcalm: I report to him and he looks after the technical advocates.
<MooDoo> czajkowski: new job czajkowski ?
<christel> congrats on the new job czajkowski! i hope it will be lots of fun
<Myrtti> jaiku run minecraft? what
<czajkowski> MooDoo: aye
<czajkowski> MooDoo: http://www.lczajkowski.com/2014/11/03/new-challenges-and-adventure-awaits/
<popey> Myrtti: haiku
<popey> Morning all btw
<MooDoo> well congrats czajkowski :)
<MooDoo> morning popey
<czajkowski> MooDoo: cheers
<Myrtti> popey: phew
<Myrtti> czajkowski: congrats!
<MooDoo> czajkowski: you certainly like your databases ;)
<zmoylan-pi> just one of the areas where open source has a real presence in industry MooDoo?
<DJones> Having to buy a replacement hdd, would I notice any significant improvement in day to day use by getting an SSD, normal use is just pidgin/IRC/email/browsing/minecraft, I'm tempted to get one, but find it hard to justify the extra cost for something I probably will never notice
<ali1234> yes
<zmoylan-pi> faster boot time from ssd
<zmoylan-pi> smaller storage
<ali1234> if nothing else it will make your computer quieter and more efficient
<zmoylan-pi> also maybe battery will last longer
<ali1234> if you have such a thing, yes
<popey> DJones: aside from "more RAM" it's the single way to quickly boost a machine IME
<DJones> Faster boot time isn't a factor, I switch the laptop on and then go and do something while its booting anyway, very rarely run on battery
<popey> especially if it's your boot drive
<ali1234> my computer is CPU bound now
<popey> ditto
<ali1234> firefox is so slow on javascript heavy pages
<DJones> Laptop is virtually silent, hardkly any noise from it
<ali1234> SSD also won't break if you drop it
<popey> stop trying to talk yourself out of it and just buy one ã
<zmoylan-pi> well... drop depends on the g's involved :-p
<ali1234> for laptop i would not consider getting a HDD any more
<popey> ditto
<zmoylan-pi> i prefer hdd every time as capacity is most important to me
<ali1234> nah, i'm pretty sure i could throw my SSD at the ground as hard as possible and it would not break
<DJones> Heh, I'm trying to justify it, but can't see any appreciable reason for it
<zmoylan-pi> ali1234 i'll take that bet :-)
<DJones> Any recommend makes of SSD or makes to avoid like the plague
<popey> dont get the cheapest one you can find
<DJones> Yeah, thats a given, not something I'vce looked at before, so don't know much about them
<popey> I have allsorts in mine, none have failed yet.
<popey> get the best performance / largest size but not the cheapest.
<ali1234> get a crucial MX100 512GB
<popey> 500MB/s seems baseline now
<popey> ooh, that looks nic
 * popey adds to wishlist
<DJones> I guess I should get something decent, its going in my Lenovo laptop, thats high spec'd anyway
<DJones> ali1234: This one? http://www.ebuyer.com/644025-crucial-mx100-512gb-sata-6gbps-2-5inch-7mm-with-9-5mm-adapter-ssd-ct512mx100ssd1
<ali1234> yes
<DJones> Thanks, will have a good look at it
<davmor2> Morning all
<ali1234> the thing about SSDs is they work the chips in parallel so bigger = faster
<ali1234> MX100 are the cheapest per MB, they are also one of the fastest
<ali1234> if you get the 512MB version
<DJones> Thanks for the suggestions & advice
<popey> there is a downside, once you go SSD it's hard going back.
<DJones> Hah
<ali1234> they're cheap enough now that you'll never need to
<diplo> I've got an old Dell D820 that still works well but I'm sure the HDD is on it's way out, haven't read up on it yet but is there any reasons why SSD's won't work in it to give it a new lease of life ?
<popey> no, no reason
<diplo> hmm now googled it, a few posts about people asking :)
 * diplo investigates
<ali1234> other than it's worth less than an SSD
<popey> heh
<diplo> heh very true ali1234, also don't have the money to replace it at the mo so a small cheaper ssd will do
<ali1234> yeah, even if you get like 128GB it will still be faster than it can handle
<diplo> Seems that it doesn't support AHCI mode which supposedly makes a big difference but should work
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Use Your Common Sense Day! :-D
<zmoylan-pi> that'll never catch on
<JamesTait> zmoylan-pi, it's not looking promising, is it? :(
<zmoylan-pi> that's why i have a big stick to help people make decisions JamesTait
<ujjain> how much is a certrified copy of an id card?
<NET||abuse> i'm having the worst, most unpredictable wifi performance on my laptop these days.
<NET||abuse> my chip is an intel 7260 controler.
<davmor2> JamesTait: well that's most of us up the swanny in the left hand we have common sense  in the right hand is grabbing for all the shiny things
<NET||abuse> i've gone to /etc/modprobe.d/iwlwifi.conf and added to the end   options iwlwifi 11n_disable=1
<popey> NET||abuse: was about to suggest that
<popey> â¹
<NET||abuse> but the connection everywhere i go, cafe's, home, the office (which has brilliant wifi for my android phone and all the mac's people are using)
<NET||abuse> arrrg,,,
<NET||abuse> even my ssh sessions go from smooth to jittery as hel
<NET||abuse> l
<NET||abuse> according to lsmod, how do i check which firmware driver it's using?
<NET||abuse> gottit,, modinfo shows firmware:       iwlwifi-7260-7.ucode
<NET||abuse> i think -9 is even in my own firmware folder somewhere.
<JamesTait> davmor2, I don't see the conflict. :-P
<davmor2> JamesTait: that's because you are not using your common sense you are too busy chasing the shiny things :P
<czajkowski> shinnnnny
<popey> NET||abuse: my intel wifi lists all kinds of firmware in modinfo
<popey> mine's Centrino Wireless N-1000
<czajkowski> popey: you on 14.10 ?
<popey> I are
<popey> wish I wasn't â»
<BigRedS> Is it bad? I don't think any of the PCs I updated have noticed
<czajkowski> popey: ahh well can you check somethin for m please :)
<popey> sure
<popey> BigRedS: i prefer LTS
<czajkowski> popey: close your screen down and see if you resume from there does your screen brightness stop working ?
<BigRedS> you're practically a Debian user :)
<czajkowski> BigRedS: runs fine for me using it for months, have one irritating bug that when I launch there is one bug I need to fix each time but it's not noticeable
<popey> czajkowski: no, that works fine
<popey> i do it all the time
<czajkowski> hmmm
<czajkowski> popey: thank you
<popey> seen others mention it
<czajkowski> same happens when I plug in the laptop it seems to stop making the brighness work as well
<czajkowski> time to go and stab my machine
<czajkowski> could be brave and go vivid :)
<popey> erk
<popey> I wouldn't
<popey> decided what laptop you're going to buy?
<czajkowski> popey: I'm no that daft :) need a working machine for sure this week
<czajkowski> popey: sent in the laptops I'd like
<popey> what's your list?
<popey> let me guess...
<popey> X1 carbon, dell xps, macbook air?
<czajkowski> X1 7 T440
<czajkowski> X1 & T440
<popey> hehe
<czajkowski> was going to go with the XPS but couldnt find very good info on battery life
<czajkowski> also the fast charge on the X1 is amazing and very handy
<czajkowski> anyone looking to go to the states next year, some very cheap flights from iceland http://wowair.co.uk/flights/book-flight
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<popey> word
<DJones> Oooh, Free gift time, Â£50 Wine voucher to use at virgin wines
<foobarry> conditions apply*
<DJones> Yeah, no doubt the case of wine will cost Â£150
<zmoylan-pi> alcohol free wine only
<foobarry> shloer
<ujjain> I like cheap and free
<foobarry> water?
<ujjain> ah yeah, I like that stuff.
<DJones> Minimum spend after voucher discount is Â£47.88
<DJones> I think I'll give that a miss then
<ujjain> https://d1f6pkbpgobziu.cloudfront.net/media/lib/images/caseshots/Y25367_GroupShot_v1113_m56577569830947649.jpg - 12 bottles - 70 pound.
<ujjain> you can't -50 pound that?
<Azelphur> Question for folks, does anyone have a Philips hue? How does it do in terms of brightness compared to a standard bulb? and what happens if the bulb dies?
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<MooDoo> morning
<brobostigon> morning bigcalm and MooDoo
<bigcalm> o/
<davmor2> MooDoo: bigcalm: morning guys how's life?
<bigcalm> Continuing
<MooDoo> davmor2: morning mate, looking at MS exams at the moment.
<davmor2> MooDoo: <yoda_impression> hmmmmmmm that way leads to the dark side, full of evil that place, hmmmmmm </yoda_impression>
<Azelphur> Wow, so I found this kinda knockoff Philips hue site that sells for about a quarter of the price of the hue, the bulbs are brighter
<Azelphur> I contact support and get this, http://pastebin.com/1Kn58XXH ... these guys are pretty damned awesome
<MooDoo> davmor2: it helps with work
<davmor2> MooDoo: I know but I couldn't resist ;)
<davmor2> MooDoo: what you looking at msce or something more
<MooDoo> davmor2: nah easier, MOS, microsoft office specialist...
<davmor2> MooDoo: why on earth would you specialise in Microsoft offices, that has got to be limited work at best, MS can't have that many offices ;)
<MooDoo> davmor2: lol har dee har har
<davmor2> MooDoo: Oh come on that was desperate to be said that one :)
<MooDoo> davmor2: yeah scraping the barrel you are.
<davmor2> MooDoo: nothing new there then :)
<popey> join #dekko
<popey> bah
<davmor2> popey: man that is evil just randomly throwing channels up like that and subliminally telling people to join it
<popey> haha
<MooDoo> pah email client for ubuntu devices ;p;
<popey> yes indeed
<MooDoo> curiosity got the better of me
<davmor2> MooDoo: don't mock dekko is a nice client :)
<popey> alao, free software
<popey> \o/
<popey> unlike gmail / inbox
<davmor2> popey: hmmm let me guess which you use everyday.......gmail/inbox right ;)
<popey> not inbox
<popey> i use non-free software to make free software
<popey> </rms>
<foobarry> was excited when i saw gmail works with exchange now. cried when i saw it needs device admin again
<davmor2> popey: hahahaha
<popey> or something
<foobarry> linkedin has a list of people i might know...some of them are people from my gmail account, including a person who emailed me by mistake. how does it know this?
<foobarry> i've never explicitly allowed anything
<awilkins> Dunno, but it's creepy innit
<awilkins> Maybe THEY allowed access?
<Myrtti> do you or have you had the app installed on your phone
<DJones> I've had that before with linkdin, kept getting spam from them when I hadn't even been on linkedin's website
 * awilkins is considering purging some apps, like Twitter's official client, from his phone
<awilkins> They are all so flipping promiscuous about what data they want to mine these days
<foobarry> i have no dsicernable connection and i've never installed linkedin app
<awilkins> Possible that these people had *their* contacts mined then
<awilkins> Social graph traverses both ways
<foobarry> seems unlikely
<foobarry> https://community.linkedin.com/questions/115069/stop-the-people-you-may-know-feature-from-using-my.html
<foobarry> i'm in the camp of people who never linked their stuff
<foobarry> my contacts aren't showing in linkedin
<foobarry> but i'm signed into gmail...wonder if realted
<popey> I often get linkedin spam
<popey> but I dont use linked in at all
<foobarry> signed into linkedin with icognito, it still kows about my gmail contacts which i never imported or linked
<Myrtti> Nexus 9 â¥
<Myrtti> very Nexus 5ish.
<Myrtti> nice charger.
<DJones> theopensourcerer.com website gets a mention in #ubuntu
<knightwise> Hmm.. nexus 9 looks pretty .. But the storage is sooooo limited !
<awilkins> Storage? But how will they profile everything you stream if they add storage?
<awilkins> And why is the charger nice?
<vad3rman1156> 128gb in my tab s :) NICE!
<awilkins> vad3rman1156, Have you rooted / Cyanogenmodded it?
<Myrtti> awilkins: the third prong retracts a bit
<BigRedS> do I still need to use a particular ISO to install Ubuntu on wintel/UEFI Apple hardware?
<shauno> you shouldn't  (this isn't a yes or a no, just a "that's the theory" ;)
<popey> yes.
<popey> 64-bit
<shauno> I was more referencing that the mac-specific isos don't exist anymore
<BigRedS> ah, cool, that explains why I can't find them. Cheers!
<shauno> that was just an odd transition period where grub-efi wasn't booting on intel macs.  so the mac-specific isos had no efi bits, to force the mac to use bios-emulation for them
<directhex> shauno: for a while, many 64-bit macs had 32-bit EFI
<BigRedS> ooh, the site still offers 14.04 by default, is there some particular focus on LTSes now?
<mapps> il endup weighing 20stone at this rate
<mapps> living next to mcdonalds makes it too easy;p
<bigcalm> You'll get bored of it
<mapps> ;]
<awilkins_> CMDR_Barnowl
<awilkins_> Oops
<CMDR_Barnowl> Oops
<daftykins> *hoots
<popey> woah, thunder
<popey> big loud thunder
<zmoylan-pi> well quiet thunder rarely gets a mention
<daftykins> lucky you!
<jussi> storms are awesome
<diddledan> not storming in hampshire :-(
<diddledan> not very much happening at all in blighty really http://www.lightningmaps.org/realtime
<diddledan> I'm assuming that one spot near guildford must be popey
<popey> ya
#ubuntu-uk 2014-11-05
<xnox> czajkowski: ++
<xnox> czajkowski: a few years back, i'd have comments about couchbase, but not today. haven't touched that thing in years.
<diddledan> I haven't touched couchbase since it changed from memcache
<diddledan> membase?
<diddledan> so ubuntu 14.10 doesn't work in hyper-v on windows10 preview
<diddledan> :-p
<shauno> if you're that bored, go to bed :|
<mapps> yo
 * zmoylan-pi hands mapps a glass of warm milk and sends them back to bed
<mapps> :D
<mapps> just got home from wrk
<mapps> what you doing up?;D
<zmoylan-pi> haven't fallen asleep yet
<mapps> oh
<mapps> guess no work early for you
<mapps> :)
<Guest55841> morning all
<MooDoo> raaaa internet
<czajkowski> xnox: :) you settling in well ?
<diddledan> mogrnin
<diddledan> (I haven't woken up yet)
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Stress Awareness Day! :-D
<diddledan> JamesTait: damn you with all these celebrations, you're stressing me out!
<diddledan> (have you got a day for every day of the year?)
<zmoylan-pi> international sorting your calendars day is jan 1st as ever :-)
<JamesTait> diddledan, no need to stress, some helpful people have remembered them all for you: daysoftheyear.com
<diddledan> teehee
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<awilkins> POO
<awilkins> Oops
<foobarry> BUM
<awilkins> WEE
<foobarry> a 5yr olds favourite words
 * awilkins suffers from Keyboard Tourettes
<foobarry> my son likes wee poo belly bum song by flanders and swann
<foobarry> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eSrXqOI9988
<awilkins> My new work laptop has more CPU grunt than my main desktop
<awilkins> Much faster at computing an SHA1SUM on a 3GB file
<awilkins> Ordinarily I would not allow this to stand.
<awilkins> But I'm waiting for Oculus Rift CV1 before I succumb to my upgrade itch
<awilkins> Anyone recommend a leather laptop bag to hold a 15.6" beast of a laptop?
<TwistedLucidity> awilkins: Consider a decent messenger bag or rucksack instead. Looks less "muggy".
<awilkins> Yeah, was thinking about this : http://www.amazon.co.uk/Unicorn-Leather-Cognac-laptop-Messenger/dp/B007ZDRH2Y/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1415182304&sr=8-5&keywords=leather+laptop+bag+16%22
<awilkins> The bods at work struck up a gift collection for me before I left so I have a wodge of Amazon vouchers
<awilkins> It's the only leather bag I've seen so far that explicitly states it will hold a large laptop, has padding for it, and has zero negative reviews (and looks good)
<TwistedLucidity> Looks pretty decent, nice even stitching. Afraid I don't have any recommendations. As that's a suede-like finish (I forget the actual term) you might want to consider some cleaners/oils to keep it water resistant.
<zmoylan-pi> ''
<TwistedLucidity> LeatherMaster do a bunch, or pop into the nearest motorcycle clothing store.
<BigRedS> I don't think I've ever seen a laptop bag in a bike shop
<BigRedS> Though, thinking about it, I've never looked for one...
<zmoylan-pi> they would have messenger bags tough maybe
<awilkins> I think he's talking about the leather care products
<BigRedS> ah yeah
<BigRedS> I missed that line
<awilkins> Can't tell what kind of leather this is though! How do I buy the right product....
<TwistedLucidity> awilkins: I was talking about the leather care stuff.
<TwistedLucidity> It's a napped leather rather than smooth, it will say on the bottle.
<TwistedLucidity> "Aniline" <- that's the word.
<awilkins> Acrylic copolymer spray is apparently where it's at
<TwistedLucidity> Basically you want something that won't make it shiny, although it will get "polished" with use. A good going over with a stiff/wire brush can sort that
<TwistedLucidity> Just like with shoes....
<foobarry> anyone still playing gta IV?
<foobarry> gta V has FPS mode
<popey> yeah, saw the video, looks fun
<popey> looking forward to pc version
<foobarry> you don't have a console?
<popey> i have a 360, but I'm not buying gta 5 on it
<foobarry> why's that?
<popey> i prefer pc
 * MooDoo just purchased a 360 for santa
<christel> certainly beats a mince pie
<MooDoo> I want a mince pie
<Azelphur> woo, I'm getting one of these https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/3832397/screenshots/2014/Oct/PCSPECIALIST%20-%20Defiance%2015%2C%20Gaming%20Defiance%2015%2C%20Build%20Your%20Own%20Defiance%2015%2C%20Buy%20Defiance%2015.png :D
<BigRedS> that's one hell of a url
<Azelphur> indeed
<Azelphur> BigRedS: one hell of a url for one hell of a laptop, look at the display :)
<BigRedS> does that get shipped built or as a kit?
<Azelphur> built
<BigRedS> just seems weird to charge Â£9 for almost no thermal paste
<BigRedS> but yeah, that's many dots on that screen
<BigRedS> and Â£50 more than my thinkpad was...
<Azelphur> BigRedS: the extra charge is because they have to do it manuall
<Azelphur> manually* so time I guess
<BigRedS> ah yeah, i just scrolled down, saw that and wondered if you just got a tube of it
<Azelphur> haha nope, it's all done for you
<TwistedLucidity> Azelphur: Please punt a quick review to here/blog/whatever. Would love to know what they are like in the flesh. Considered getting one but didn't want to buy asight unseen.
<Azelphur> TwistedLucidity: I already have one Clevo laptop, I am impressed enough with it to just throw money at Clevo.
<Azelphur> If it's anywhere near as good as my Clevo W110ER, I'll be happy
<TwistedLucidity> Sweet. Hope the backlit keyboatd works out.
<Azelphur> indeed
<TwistedLucidity> In the end I plumped for an older ThinkPad, but would seriously consider one of these in the furture
<TwistedLucidity> I like their attitude of "We can't support Linux ourselves, but here's a coummunity; know yourself out"
<Azelphur> hehe
<TwistedLucidity> Unlike what some other OEMs and shops do (e.g. Currys)
<Azelphur> http://www.chip.pl/images/testy/notebooki/notebooki-z-windows-7/clevo-w110er/56117_4.jpg/image_preview
<TwistedLucidity> "Knock yourself...."
<Azelphur> 11" with an i7 and a GT 650M...that is one well built machine.
<TwistedLucidity> 11" eh? That's the size I want for my "chuck in a backpack" unit. Was thinking of getting a X201
<Azelphur> TwistedLucidity: this one fits in my coat pocket
<TwistedLucidity> If I put the T430 in a coat pocket, I'd be walking in circles!
<popey> hah
<Azelphur> haha
<zmoylan-pi> 3
<TwistedLucidity> Heavy sod. But the attraction was build quality.
<Azelphur> I remember when me and popey both had a M1730's
<Azelphur> those laptops were the greatest :)
<popey> i have never had an m1730
<Azelphur> what did you have? I'm sure it was the same as or similar to mine
<popey> I had a Dell XPS Gen 2.
<Azelphur> ah
<Azelphur> yea, they are pretty much the same
<Azelphur> TwistedLucidity: did you see the Clevo that takes desktop LGA2011 CPUs? crazyness xD
<TwistedLucidity> Azelphur: Nope, didn't spot that. Was having a rummage at the 10" and 11" models.
<TwistedLucidity> Maybe I can save enough money to buy myself a new desktop post-Christmas.....this is all your fault Azelphur!
<Azelphur> haha
<zmoylan-pi> a rasp pi can be used as a desktop :-p
<Azelphur> http://www.pcspecialist.co.uk/notebooks/omegaII/
<Azelphur> If it had a >1080 display I'd probably be buying it :(
<TwistedLucidity> 17"!
<TwistedLucidity> Screens really do let down some systems.
<Azelphur> TwistedLucidity: look at the side on photo rofl
<Azelphur> https://www.pcspecialist.co.uk/images/products/3789/6_big.jpg?108 this one
<TwistedLucidity> "Missing door step? NO PROBLEM!"
<Azelphur> haha indeed
<Azelphur> I imagine it sounds like a jet taking off too what with the 4 hard drives, desktop CPU and twin dedicated GPUs
<Azelphur> one day, when I'm rich *dreams* :p
<TwistedLucidity> Circa Â£2.9k in top-spec. >.<
<Azelphur> TwistedLucidity: I get Â£3.4k
<TwistedLucidity> I didn't go for the external sound cards and the like. I also saved Â£79 on one option....
<Azelphur> TwistedLucidity: me neither, I got the i7 six core, 32GB kingson hyperx, nvidia 880Ms, twin 1TB Samsung 840 EVOs, MX-4 thermal compound, and the Intel AC-7260.
<popey> tempted to plug my desktop into the telly and use it as a steam box
<Azelphur> popey: running SteamOS too?
<popey> nah, steam on ubuntu or windows
<Azelphur> I see
<mapps> hm
<mapps> what to do
<daftykins> fixed your tubes yet? :)
<mapps> gah no ive bene putting off contacting them
<mapps> as i know it's gonna be a hassle:(
<daftykins> is the language barrier a pain?
<daftykins> actually you said they speak it well eh
<mapps> na
<mapps> they speak english and spanish fluently
<mapps> even mixing both mid sentence which is funny
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> my mates ADSL finally got enabled today, only 9 days late
<mapps> :D
<daftykins> i told them there was no service on the line so there had to be a fault at the exchange end
<mapps> like my sky that didnt get connected? this was lol
<mapps> i paid connection charge..went away to latvia..and come back nothings done
<daftykins> they passed a message through to that department who pushed it back to the engineers
<daftykins> they came onsite this morning, it was a faulty line card in the exchange like i said at the very beginning
<mapps> phone them and they said basically couldnt do phoneline and net at same tie..sometimes cant..so rather than do it seperately they did NOTHING
<daftykins> absolute idiots
<mapps> line card?
<mapps> hm
<daftykins> yeah the thing your line connects into at the other end :>
<mapps> and how stupid are sky?:P i paid connection fee agreed terms i dont care if i get phoneline or adsl seperate or at same time
<daftykins> in the DSLAM basically
<mapps> but they did NOTHING when they couldnt do both at same time..so i phone they do phone and say theyll phone in a week
<mapps> irritates me when they say they'll phone..i'm not that stupid
<mapps> 0 chance they do
<mapps> damn tired
<mapps> debating doing spinning
<daftykins> i don't hugely follow that, one thing at a time 0o granted you have to have a landline before you can apply for a broadband service over here
<daftykins> brb
<mapps> but im yawning :I
<mapps> had to switch my landline to sky..and then get my net upograded they did both orders at once
<mapps> then claimed it failed..sometimes does for some reason..so they did nothing
<mapps> clearly i still wanted it
<daftykins> mapps: fun and games indeed
<Azelphur> Does Linux still hate PCIe SSDs?
<daftykins> hmm i hadn't even considered support for that
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/snspaymkijxsr40/AABXChwPtUmHpWj_42j6osmOa?dl=0
<daftykins> i did a lovely build there a bit ago that was using a nice new M.2 SSD :>
<Azelphur> hehe
<Azelphur> did it work with Linux?
<daftykins> i could fire up a live session on it some time to see what it says
<daftykins> the boot speed vid is pretty impressive
<Azelphur> :)
<ali1234> is there a way to force X11 to draw the mouse cursor in software?
<Azelphur> ali1234: ftp://www.x.org/pub/xorg/X11R6.7.0/doc/SiS2.html that top thing looks like what you want?
<ali1234> what i want is something that will turn off the regular cursor and draw one with a normal window
<ali1234> so that if you take a screenshot the cursor will show up in it (without trickery like screenshot tools do)
<popey> Azelphur: mSATA SSDs?
<Azelphur> popey: no, PCIe (M.2)
<popey> oh, desktop?
<Azelphur> laptop
<popey> link to one
<daftykins> M.2 is ace
<daftykins> my dropbox link shows one
<Azelphur> popey: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M.2 there's an image in there too
<daftykins> in the flesh! albeit mounted to a supporting motherboard.
<popey> wow, thats tiny
<daftykins> they vary in length
<popey> what makes you say linux hates them?
<daftykins> they typically come off PCI-E lanes direct from the CPU, so i'd imagine the kernel has a few surprises early on
<daftykins> NVMe is the newer standard to operate them with too
<Azelphur> popey: I've heard people saying you can't boot from them / they need special drivers
<ali1234> that stuff is painfully new
<ali1234> my brother got a new computer a couple of months ago, ubuntu live cd could not access the ethernet, usb ports, and half the sata ports
<ali1234> and neither could windows, even with the drivers from the motherboard cd. we had to download updates from the websites
<daftykins> in what can only be described as my biggest 'derp' moment, i just worked out why there are so many fireworks going off tonight
<daftykins> Â¬_Â¬
<mapps> hi all
<daftykins> welcome back
<mapps> hey daftykins
<mapps> quick question..you ever used MRTG much
<daftykins> i'm not even familiar with the acronym off hand
<ali1234> i've used it
<diddledan> multi router trafic graph
<ali1234> all i can remember abut it is that it's really strange
<daftykins> D:
<daftykins> lol
<mapps> is it possible to get it to monitor the wireless on my pi
<daftykins> mapps: what's your latest hair-brained scheme exactly? :>
<mapps> the sky router doesnt support SNMP or it didnt respond
<diddledan> should be, yes
<mapps> :D
<ali1234> sure, it is just a graphing tool
<mapps> yea
<ali1234> it can graph any data source you want
<diddledan> daftykins: you say "hair-brained" as though that's a bad thing?
<mapps> so time to google search
<mapps> not sure how to get it to monitor wlan0
<ali1234> it doesn't have any built in monitoring capability
<mapps> how can i probe wlan?
<daftykins> out of interest who's given in and is using heating at home already? :D
<mapps> not me
<ali1234> daftykins: i've still got the windows open
<ali1234> too many computers
<daftykins> hahaha
<daftykins> nicely insulated place too?
<ali1234> not really no
<diddledan> I'm too hot and no heating yet
<diddledan> two puters at my feet probably don't help
<daftykins> i'm fine in t-shirt and thin jacket, but my cat's already going in her bed which she never uses :> https://www.dropbox.com/s/99pnnu611cla8qh/IMG_20141105_002324.jpg?dl=0
<diddledan> squeeee!
<daftykins> hrmm think i'm going to move the travelling client from Vodafone to O2
<daftykins> hopefully they shall be a good improvement reception wise, all around England :>
<popey> directhex / daftykins is there some way in steam on Windows to tell big screen to open on the TV rather than PC monitor?
<popey> other than set the windows default screen to the tv
<popey> or switching off the desktop pc monitor
<directhex> popey: apparently settable from the display options inside BPM
<popey> i tried that, but it showed two entries for "generic pc monitor" and neither worked, they both kept pc monitor on
 * popey tries again
<directhex> lol
<popey> oh worked that time
<popey> must be pilot error
<popey> sweet
 * popey plays
<popey> hmm, doesnt re-route sound too
<daftykins> Windows set to the HDMI device?
<daftykins> wow an auto-remove on a 14.04 server slowly iterating through older initrd's to remove seems oddly tedious
<popey> daftykins: yeah, but it's a faff. â»
<popey> I wanted to just be on my desktop, plug in tv, open steam, off you go
<popey> but there's a little fiddling which isn't too bad
<popey> I can live with it
<popey> Meantime, anyone (I expect Azelphur) tried any bluetooth keyboards with their phone? Cheap and small = better
<daftykins> what's the graphics card there? i find they vary a lot with how clever they are with that
<popey> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Bluetooth-Keyboard-iPhone-Symbian-smartphone/dp/B004401ZME that kinda thing
<popey> daftykins: nvidia something something
<Azelphur> popey: actually nope, never done that
<popey> surprising
<daftykins> but Azelphur has all the gadgets!
<daftykins> popey: hmm, as long as the drivers are new enough, that is a surprise
<popey> its a reall old manky tv that the windows box has only just seen for the first time
<popey> got a new TV in the lounge, so I got the old one in my den
<popey> which triggered the desk moving around to put the pc near the telly, which now is my steam box
<daftykins> ah so might be more of a live-plug than a boot-with-connected situation?
<popey> no, it was booted with it attached, then i turned it on after boot
<popey> nvm, all sorted now â»
<daftykins> ah yes, HDMI likes them on during boot or connect
<daftykins> hrmm how strange, i'm proxy'd over SSH through this friends web server, he hosts a website from home and so has just updated the DNS with his new IP after getting a new router from his ISP
<daftykins> now however, the wordpress site he hosts doesn't load properly when i try the server's internal IP
<daftykins> (DNS has updated correctly for him)
<daftykins> also, his domain just gives a 'connection reset' from firefox if i try to go to that, over said proxy
<ali1234> popey: i have a bluetooth keyboard, but i don't see the point
<ali1234> i literally used it once when i got it and never again
<popey> http://www.amazon.co.uk/IPHONE-BLUETOOTH-KEYBOARD-SLIDER-CASE/dp/B0052TI7ZY
<ali1234> the jolla keyboard attachment is on kickstarter now. or maybe indiegogo, i don't remember
<popey> yeah, thats what got me thinking
<popey> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/2028347278/tohkbd-the-other-half-keyboard-for-your-jolla
<ali1234> "the other half" is a really clever idea
<popey> yeah
<popey> theirs isnt bluetooth though, directly connected over i2c
<ali1234> yes, so uses less battery and is immune to interference
<popey> wonder how many jolla devices have sold
#ubuntu-uk 2014-11-06
<ali1234> i just fixed an 8 year old bug that nobody notice until 6 months ago :(
<ali1234> somehow it's also the top apport crasher for xubuntu
<daftykins> :O
<daftykins> nice work
 * zmoylan-pi hands ali1234 a cookie for work done
<mapps> morning
<Myrtti_> ali1234: which one?
<ali1234> Myrtti_: the one where xfwm crashes if your hostname is longer than 31 characters
<Myrtti_> ah.
<Guest15705> good morning aqll
<popey> Morning
<MooDoo> rats kicked off again :()
<diddledan> brain? brain? what are we going to do today, brain?
<TheBrain> The same thing we do every day, Pinky. Try to take over the World!
<diddledan> roger that!
 * diddledan prepares
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<diddledan> one towel. one beer. done
<brobostigon> :)
<diddledan> mornin brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning diddledan
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Nachos Day! :-D
<MooDoo> morning
<davmor2> JamesTait: What else is it today I'm not a fan of Nachos
<foobarry> how do you screenshot in android 4.x ?
<foobarry> cyanogen had it on the power button
<foobarry> can't find it in stock
<davmor2> foobarry: depends on the make of the phone
<diddledan> volume-down+power?
<MooDoo> +1
<foobarry> volume down first?
<MooDoo> both at the same time
<diddledan> at the same time
<JamesTait> davmor2, it's Men Make Dinner Day.
<foobarry> nothing happens
<foobarry> ah...hold for 1-2 secs
<foobarry> thanks gutys
<davmor2> JamesTait: yeah I'm doing that anyway wifey is poorly
<MooDoo> howdy davmor2
<davmor2> MooDoo: how are you me owld mucka
<MooDoo> yeah i'm ok mate, just watched a video about sabdfl getting someone up on stage to use autopilot :D
<MooDoo> davmor2: what about yourself good sir.....? I've also been trying to p2v my ubuntu server to vmware with not much success :D
<davmor2> MooDoo: watch the live migration of doom while it is playing if you want funky :)
<MooDoo> yeah i saw that too, :)
<MooDoo> davmor2: just could do with my webserver virtualising for failover.
<NET||abuse> :( hamster project is pretty much dead. sad face, I really need something to track myself with something like the desktop integration of hamster
<NET||abuse> and the granular reporting it gave. i really liked it.
<davmor2> MooDoo: easy ha proxy with a cloud backup :P
<MooDoo> davmor2: doesn't help me with duplicating the server in the first place though
<MooDoo> i could usee virt-v2v i think
<ujjain> how do I install an pkg file with dependencies?
<NET||abuse> pkg?
<ujjain> .deb?
<ujjain> apt-get install blabla.deb not working
<NET||abuse> dpkg -i blah.deb
<NET||abuse> and sudo that
<ujjain> too many dependencies
<NET||abuse> ahh, in that case
<NET||abuse> apt-get install -f blah.deb    I think it might also get the dependancies
<NET||abuse> i'm not sure though
<MooDoo> i normally dpkg -i blah.deb
<MooDoo> then sudo apt-get -f install to get all the rest
<NET||abuse> dpkg -i blah.deb first. yes MooDoo is right, then aptget -f install  will say "dependencies are ready to install" and it'll go get them.
<NET||abuse> then dpkg -i blah.deb again to get the package
<NET||abuse> otherwise, i think gdebi might do it for you too
<ujjain> meh, I think the teamviewer package is a bit crappy
<ujjain> maybe I should use vnc,
<NET||abuse> teamviewer sorts out the connection nat forwarding etc for you , but vnc is fine too,, though i have a big interest in starting to use spice
<NET||abuse> otherwise look at no machine's nx
<ujjain> yeah, I have blcoked ports here I cant change, it's a bit of a pain in the culo
<ujjain> but i'll fin da way
<NET||abuse> the other way is X11 forwarding :)
<ujjain> ah, good one, but my laptop has no Linux, but Mac
<NET||abuse> HEATHEN!!! get the nonbeliever!!!
<Myrtti_> SHUN THE NONBELIEVER
<Myrtti_> SHHUUuUuuNnN
<foobarry> sacrifice him at dawn
<NET||abuse> marry him to a goat, then try him for bestiality!!
<ujjain> I repent my sinful way of life. :(
<NET||abuse> hmm, i might have gone a little far there.
<awilkins> ujjain, If your server is in colo and there are other Ubuntu servers in there htey may have an apt mirror up
<foobarry> prove your repentance by posting a picture of your mac on fire
<Myrtti_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=CsGYh8AacgY
<foobarry> or just boot ubuntu ;)
<NET||abuse> :P hehe,
 * NET||abuse whispers : pssst,, ujjain you can just boot ubuntu in virtualbox full screen,, that'll trick em!
<NET||abuse> oh wow, does spice do audio too
<foobarry> spice desktop?
<foobarry> who uis using it
<foobarry> i'm about to get redhat in to chat about it
<ujjain> ah, maybe I should install a good OS in a virtual machine yeah.
<davmor2> Myrtti_: thanks now I have this in my head http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cSTBFZ-To2E
<diddledan> btw, mac os x does X11, too
<popey> Uh oh
<MooDoo> ?
<brobostigon> how do i enbale me as a normal user, to allow raw usb device access to a raw usb device in /dev/bus/usb ?
<willcooke> brobostigon, this might help:  http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=901891&page=4
<willcooke> I think you have to create a udev rule to set the perms on the specific USB device you want access to
<willcooke> and/or be in the plugdev group
<brobostigon> ok, thank you.
<davmor2> popey: just install 11 it's fine......unless there was another Uh oh ;)
 * popey suspects davmor2 said that in the wrong channel
<popey> \o/ 25 people have installed "my" calculator app on Ubuntu phone
<davmor2> popey: no you said Uh oh about 30 minutes ago on this channel :P
<popey> yes, 11:50:20 -!- willcooke [~willcooke@canonical/willcooke] has joined #ubuntu-uk
<popey> 11:57:13 < popey> Uh oh
<popey> â»
<willcooke> \o/
<willcooke> I'm still reading the code of conduct
<popey> haha
<davmor2> popey: ah now it all makes sense, I have joins hidden :)
<Laney> just don't talk about the wa^W^Wpolitics
<davmor2> Laney: Are you taking Conservative guesses at willcooke 's liberal attitude to labour disputes that lead to stikes with that comment?
<Laney> !POLITICS
<lubotu3> Please take political discussion to ##politics-uk. Thank you!
<davmor2> Laney: hahahahahaha
<willcooke> :D
<MooDoo> *yawn*
<foobarry> went to tower hill this lunchtime
<foobarry> http://i.imgur.com/QRajTtE.jpg
<popey> blimey
<foobarry> a sea of grey hair
<foobarry> and some poppies
<DJones> foobarry: Thats a cracking picture
<foobarry> took on my phone, want to see some more?
<DJones> Yeah, would be good, not something I'll get to see in person
<foobarry> http://imgur.com/a/1KgIU
<DJones> It looks amazing
<foobarry> its really effective
<foobarry> sooo many people
<foobarry> but you can get a good view from anywhere i suppose
<foobarry> and its free
<foobarry> people like free things
<foobarry> there is zreo organisation considering there were like 5-10 thousand ppl there
<foobarry> or 20-30 thou
<foobarry> really hard to tell
<popey> my kids are making ceramic poppies at school
<foobarry> nice
<zmoylan-pi> when they could be out sweeping chimneys
<TwistedLucidity> Never sure how to feel about poppies. One the one hand it's a worthy cause, on the other a low of people (read: MPs) use it as an excuse for fawning and trying to gain reflected glory.
<foobarry> its good to remember these things
<foobarry> i ignore what MPs say at the best of times so meh
<foobarry> also they are selling the 880,000 poppies to raise Â£11.6m
<foobarry> to worthy charities
<TwistedLucidity> One thing that is beginning to irk me about the UK is the near deification of our armed forces. I know the put there lives at risk, I know it's a horrible job at times and they often have inadequate kit/support after conflict.
<TwistedLucidity> I get all that.
<foobarry> hmm , do you read the sun or something?
<foobarry> i don't see it
<TwistedLucidity> But there is an air of "If you don't support <insert military charity>, then you hate your country"
<zmoylan-pi> then there's what if some public face *doesn't* wear a poppy
<TwistedLucidity> It's like you need to be seen to support it in order to be socially accepted, no matter what your feelings on it may be.
<foobarry> be careful not to think that the media speaks for people. it only speaks for a small group of insular people
<TwistedLucidity> I'd rather see the military not used for illegal wars/nation building/etc in the first blasted place.
<TwistedLucidity> But I guess that's fantasy vs reality.
<TwistedLucidity> And I have broken my web server. Oh bother.
<foobarry> need more spiders
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<davmor2> bigcalm: morning dude
<bigcalm> o/
<bigcalm> davmor2: are you well?
<davmor2> bigcalm: I'm tired, but good thanks,  This moving half your house out, having a load of building work done, decorating and moving half your home back again just isn't as much fun as it is cracked up to be :)
<bigcalm> Aww
<bigcalm> Is it warmer now?
<davmor2> bigcalm: it wasn't heating, electrics, new kitchen and new bathroom and toilet.  heating was the year before
<bigcalm> Ah
<bigcalm> Did you have to contribute much?
<davmor2> bigcalm: nope just moving all the stuff, it's council so it is they that have done the work
<bigcalm> Very nice of them
<bigcalm> One day, Wolverhampton won't look like a complete dump. It's the people that make it a nice place though
<davmor2> bigcalm: no it will always be a dump they aren't doing things to the outside on the inside :)
<BigRedS> I have two 10.04 machines running Pidgin 2.10.9. One claims our jabber server's cert is invalid, the other doesn't, Anyone got any ideas why?
<BigRedS> I don't really care about the validity of the cert, but I don't seem to be able to say 'ignore cert errors' or even 'don't use encryption'
<bigcalm> davmor2: I hope that the council go in for exterior renovation (as can be seen on Birmingham's towers)
<davmor2> bigcalm: no too damned expensive :)
<czajkowski> anyone hknow how you associate an email address with google for calendar ?
<ujjain> who understands routes?
<ujjain> how do I replace 10.42.182.0     0.0.0.0         255.255.255.0   U     0      0        0 eth0 < by tun-aib0?
<popey> czajkowski: eh?
<czajkowski> I have outlook mail and their calendar but it's not very nice to use
<czajkowski> I want to use gogole calendar for my calendar and wondered how to get that to work
<czajkowski> I'm sure there is  a way
<popey> uh, i dont think you can do that
<czajkowski> *mutters*
<czajkowski> popey: thanks
<czajkowski> popey: see my shiny red notebook :p
<popey> yeah â»
<mapps> getting cold at nights here now :((
<czajkowski> yup had the fire on for thelast few nights
<mapps> ive only got 1 pair of jeans here though!
<mapps> and 1 hoodie..rest shorts and tshirts;D
<czajkowski> popey: oh if I add the other email address in google under other email addresses I can then see any calendars added :D
<diddledan> I might need to close my window tonight
<bigcalm> Anybody use a mssql server browser in linux?
<awilkins> You can probably use Oracle SQL Workbench with the appropriate JDBC connector?
<awilkins> (but, no, not personally)
<bigcalm> Humm, might be worth having a look at, ta
<awilkins> There's a Thing for Eclipse too
<awilkins> Also JDBC powered
<Azelphur> http://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/ShowUserReviews-g186338-d1657415-r237650360-Park_Plaza_Westminster_Bridge_London-London_England.html this response to my review is bizarre, "Not sure what happened with the wifi it's just exactly as you said it was"
<mapps> what was wrong with the wifi?:D
<popey> you left a vaguely technical review and someone non-technical replied, clearly
<Azelphur> popey: haha, god alone knows :P
<Azelphur> mapps: it was capped to 1mbit/sec, real world I was getting about 0.7 out of it, was useless as I say, went to tethering and got like 6mbit/sec
<Azelphur> friend just got a job at Microsoft, we are trying to convince him to wear a ReactOS shirt on his first day :)
<zmoylan-pi> a big tux on his desk
<Azelphur> exactly.
<MooDoo> evening
<MooDoo> :)
<diddledan> have I broken my network or is www.google.com dead?
<daftykins> diddledan: alive-alive-o here
<diddledan> other services are working ok
<diddledan> like bing
<diddledan> but anything google is timing out
<daftykins> tracert'd to see where it dies?
<diddledan> ergh
<diddledan> that's annoying
<diddledan> it's "remembered" a route via virginmedia even though 1) the route is currently turned off, and 2) my virgin connection isn't activated by virgin yet
<diddledan> so it blackholes in virgin's helpful "you're not activated yet" singularity
<daftykins> how are you online then?
<daftykins> what skullduggery is this?
<zmoylan-pi> he's viewing the matrix directly
<daftykins> ah
<diddledan> lol
<daftykins> that explains the cloud of green rising from diddledan
<diddledan> this is actually pretty ok considering it was done entirely on the iphone: http://whitchurch.org.uk/news/whitchurch-man-achieves-world-first-with-iphone-6/
#ubuntu-uk 2014-11-07
<diddledan> http://research.dyn.com/2014/11/chinese-routing-errors-redirect-russian-traffic/
<diddledan> fun
<diddledan> from russia to russia.. via shanghai
<daftykins> \o/
<daftykins> diddledan: can't decide if the banner pic on that whitchurch link suggests children are happily running around youthfully and excitedly, or whether there's some kind of native impending doom they suffer from
<diddledan> haha, I see what you mean
<diddledan> ok, so virgin just emailed me my account number and "area reference" - I go to the sign up for ebilling page and it tells me the account number doesn't exist
<diddledan> maybe I'm jumping the gun
<daftykins> does seem a bit odd
<daftykins> these providers online systems do seem to require a change of wind direction prior to working though
<shauno> did dan fix the googles?
<daftykins> i'm not sure
 * daftykins pokes diddledan with a virgin media
<diddledan> I fixed it by turning on ipv6 tunnel :-p
<diddledan> more a workaround than a fix
<shauno> heh
<daftykins> i had to get that Austrian guy to edit the windows hosts file to put his own domain as the LAN IP of his webserver yesterday, to get around the page not properly loading from inside his network
<daftykins> very odd situation
<shauno> I think I've seen that before, when they're port-forwarding inwards
<daftykins> yep
<daftykins> when i've seen it though, they typically don't get anything at all
<daftykins> he gets the text and sometimes images of his website, but it doesn't display correctly across the main browsers
<shauno> like traffic that's destined to their own IP misses a step when it goes from lan-wan, and doesn't go via the translation table
<shauno> oh weird
<daftykins> i tried SSH'ing in and opening a SOCKS proxy, same issue
<daftykins> DNS queries for his domain are correct, but oddly entering that into the browser insta-fails
<daftykins> i think it said connection reset 0o
<daftykins> i'd have packet sniffed the session maybe to see what was going on, but i decided to cheat with the hosts workaround
<shauno> does he see requests for the missing parts showing up on his server?
<daftykins> ooh that'd be a good shout
<daftykins> i think the images loaded only the times immediately after i'd correctly loaded the site from outside (e.g. from my home connection)
<daftykins> so they could've been cached
<shauno> I guess that's where I'd look.  look in the console / inspector on the browser, see if it's refusing things for cross-domain policies.  and then see what requests show up on the webserver, and if it logs any reason to refuse them
<shauno> that should narrow down what's eating stuff where
<daftykins> :) ty sir, good ideas
<daftykins> it started with his ISP's new router though, i suspect funky play there
<shauno> (or C; back away slowly, it's working)
<daftykins> yeah my dirty hack is pretty reliable ;D it's always tempting to want to understand these things more deeply though
<shauno> sometimes :)  sometimes it's better for your sanity if you don't ..
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> i hadn't spoken to that guy since my accident so it ended up being something like a 4hr chat to catch up on things
<shauno> so, random story that may or may not have just happened at work this week
<daftykins> ooh?
<shauno> "product" now has an ios app, because, yaknow, managers feel like they're missing something if they don't have "an app" under their belt
<daftykins> absolutely!
<shauno> last friday, they sent a mailshot out to every current customer letting them know this
<shauno> monday, the release that supports the app hits the backend
<shauno> monday, the customers start calling ...
<daftykins> :S
<daftykins> fruity customers? :D
<shauno> so, I found a nifty way of eating this stuff is to let my laptop forward wifi to lan, so I can capture my own phone :)
<shauno> and the hostname looks really rather suspect.  so I shoot an email off to the developers asking why it's still trying to hit the stage servers
<daftykins> beats an ARP spoof!
<diddledan> haha
<shauno> they inform me this is by design, and it'll be re-pointed in the release version next month
<daftykins> lol
<diddledan> o_O
<daftykins> "but but, it's LIVE TODAY!"
<shauno> right :)
<daftykins> *facepalm*
<shauno> I really, really want to know how development & management got that far out of sync
<daftykins> certainly speaks of zero quality assurance doesn't it :(
<daftykins> not a single test in the book
<shauno> oh that much they do seem to be doing.  and still are
<daftykins> mmm just let the horse out of the stable a bit early
<shauno> it seems to just be a really, really screwed up release process.  they put it in the store because it's easier to push to the relevant parties that way
<daftykins> lol
<shauno> instead of using 'testflight', or getting everyone to register their phones, or something sensible
<shauno> 'comedy of errors' is turning into a theme lately though :/
<shauno> I found an api that returns <ok>API_ERROR</ok>.  and the consumer tests for <ok> and decides it's, well, okay.  it doesn't look for a value within it.
<daftykins> :D
<shauno> so <ok/> and <ok>no, really not okay</ok> have exactly the same meaning
<shauno> to backtrack, I found a way to disable ssl on our products.  which turned into a goldmine for debug, because you can actually see what's failing now
<daftykins> didn't backtrack turn into kali?
<shauno> I mean in the literal sense :)
<daftykins> ah :D
<shauno> so I've spent a whole lot of time over the last 2 weeks, pouring over captures for anything we never managed to solve the first time around
<shauno> it's roughly 50/50 between "aha, that's what's wrong!"  and "what .. who .. why ..  wait, who wrote this?"
<daftykins> hehe, resisting the urge to head-desk?
<shauno> but some of the stuff I've found is hilarious.  like an edge-case that fails if the endpoint doesn't have a phonenumber.  because 15 years ago, this whole mess ran over dialup. and some components still haven't been told.
<daftykins> oh my word O_O
<shauno> I miss our last manager.  he was really good at hiding stuff
<daftykins> he'd cover up the above? :>
<shauno> he'd been with it from the start, so he knew all the quirks
<shauno> the new guy doesn't know, doesn't want to, and starting putting us in touch with the devs directly
<shauno> and all innocence was lost
<daftykins> would a better manager take your input and feed it back to them to fix directly?
<shauno> I'm actually not sure
<shauno> I'm just left feeling like .. the end of the wizard of oz.  except they pull back the curtain and don't find a wizard, don't find an old man pretending to be a wizard
<shauno> but find 20 squirrels frantically pressing buttons to see what happens
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> i've been pretty disillusioned by workplaces since finishing education, that everywhere seems to be run by a batch of said squirrels
<shauno> this is the first place I've worked that has more than 5 employees
<daftykins> :O
<daftykins> how very niche of you! :)
<shauno> now I'm one of 170,000.  "completely different" would be an understatement
<shauno> it's left me very impressed that centipedes can actually walk
<shauno> instead of having one leg at the front trying to steer, 3 at the back trying to push the whole thing forward, and the rest all holding meetings about .. something
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> or much falling over
<shauno> anyway.  I'm gonna quit ranting and go to bed.  I have to be early tomorrow because someone scheduled me for a conf call in the wrong timezone :/
<shauno> I get to teach an electrician how to use tcpdump.  at 7am.  it's gonna rock.
<daftykins> WAT
<daftykins> electrician :(
<daftykins> good luck with that sir o/
<shauno> it's actually a semi-sensible solution
<shauno> very paranoid customer who has a vetted list of externals.  so the plan is to find the most obedient person on that list, rather than try to get someone new added
<daftykins> what to do? :D
<shauno> well, pcaps :)
<shauno> (this actually works.  many years of doing tech support for mum pays off.  if you can talk your mother through it, you're set)
<daftykins> hahaha
<shauno> seriously.  my mother has a good grasp of what ports are, and what "well known ports" are.  it's amazing
<shauno> I can't remember why it came up, but I explained about phone numbers, and switchboard extensions, and being able to ask for 'accounting' instead of a number.  and it seems it stuck
<shauno> anyway.  'night.
<daftykins> nn sir :)
<davmor2> Morning all
<MooDoo> morning davmor2
<foobarry> these guys who are selling new books cheaper than amazon are sending from the states
<foobarry> how can they send for Â£2.80 postage?
<zmoylan-pi> water proof books with cover wedged open as a sail
<foobarry> heh
<foobarry> rip off britain
<zmoylan-pi> if you think uk is bad, irish prices are uk prices converted to euro with a markup on top
<foobarry> really need to stop looking at the news page
<foobarry> grim and depressing
<foobarry> probably worst example of that is today
<zmoylan-pi> the number of days when you can look at the news and be happy is 0
<foobarry> hhe
<foobarry> tech news is different
<zmoylan-pi> the number of days when you can look at the tech news and be happy is > 0
<foobarry> g+  makes me happyish
<zmoylan-pi> but not by much
<foobarry> except whent he verge posts i-news
<zmoylan-pi> g+ made me completely switch off google
<foobarry> what good tech news sites do you read on g+?
<foobarry> i had to turn engadget back on about verge annoyred me
<ali1234> the verge is nearly as bad as the register
<foobarry> they don't hide their fanboyism but their non apple stories are quite interesting
<foobarry> not that i read the articles, the headlines are sufficient
<foobarry> i rely on cooleagues to tell me any useful register stories
<foobarry> i can't stand them
<foobarry> but they have useful stuff e.g. the vmware CBT issue
<zmoylan-pi> i just flip through the headlines in rss for a number of tech sites.
<ali1234> i just look at reddit
<foobarry> i quit reddit due to borderline addiction and time sink
<zmoylan-pi> i quit reddit due to hivemind
<foobarry> oh yes, never any default subs
<foobarry> i learned that after a week
<zmoylan-pi> doesn't matter how right you are, if you don't agree with the concensus you'll be downvoted to obilivion
<zmoylan-pi> only moderation system i've ever seen work _was_ slashdots as you had to earn right to upvote/downvote
<foobarry> once due to lack of sleep and fatigue i mentioned the breastapo in a parenting subreddit
<ali1234> who cares though?
<ali1234> downvoting doesn't do much on reddit
<foobarry> incurred the wrath of a million breastfeeding nazis
<ali1234> it's not like slashdot where it is impossible to see anything modded down
<zmoylan-pi> an individual downvote, no.  a mass downvote by a bot...
<foobarry> reddit has a option to not show downvoted entries
<zmoylan-pi> on slashdot you're just modded troll, wrong, offtopic.  no need to have -1000 votes
<ali1234> yes, and the groupthink on slashdot is much much worse
<zmoylan-pi> at least you where, now it's been bought and changed
<ali1234> slashdot is basically now exactly like reddit, except with only about 50 users
<zmoylan-pi> no on slashdot 2 opposing opinions could be voted insightful.  it's the way it should be
<zmoylan-pi> but i am talking past tense.  the last year has been a sad one for slashdot users
<ali1234> slashdot loves opinions. post facts and you're at -1 and nobody ever sees it
<zmoylan-pi> not in my experience
<ali1234> just look at this: http://ask.slashdot.org/story/14/10/18/1527231/ask-slashdot-stop-pulseaudio-from-changing-sound-settings
<zmoylan-pi> from this year...
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<ali1234> the funniest part is it turned out OP just hadn't bothered updating his system...
<zmoylan-pi> yeah, slashdot had a mass exodous to soylentnews earlier this year, soylent feels a lot like slashdot back in 99
 * zmoylan-pi waves cane in the air at whippersnappers :-)
<popey> never heard of soylentnews
<ali1234> i have
<ali1234> imagine slashdot except most articles have less than 10 comments
<popey> right
<zmoylan-pi> but comments are good again
<popey> FSVO Good
<TwistedLucidity> ali1234: There are no problems with PulseAudio. Sounds on Linux is a solved problem. Linus said so. :-P
<zmoylan-pi> true but i prefer it more and more over the alternatives
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Friday, and happy Hug a Bear Day! :-D
<zmoylan-pi> sound is less difficult, wifi is where the frustration is at
<TwistedLucidity> I thought the volume change was a feature and not a bug. Allows for different volume setting headphones vs speakers so you don't implode your ear drums.
<ali1234> TwistedLucidity: it is a feature. a feature that didn't work properly until recently due to a bug in ALSA introduced by lennart and found by me
<ali1234> it's supposed to remember the volume levels for each device and reload them when you plug it in
<TwistedLucidity> ali1234: Sweet. I must have been lucky with updates as it passed me by
<ali1234> what it does instead is reset all devices to default volume whenever anything is plugged in
<TwistedLucidity> What grates my carrot is the inability to correctly balance the speakers in Pulse.
<ali1234> this is fixed in debian unstable anyway, OP just didn't update
<ali1234> but the point is I had to track down his email and talk to him directly to sort it out, because slashdot moderation is a mess
<TwistedLucidity> Well...if they'd gone to the PA bugtracker (or Launchpad or...) it would have been a better start.
<zmoylan-pi> they broke it and replaced it with a reddit knockoff after switching to new 'beta' system
<ali1234> the bug isn't on the PA bug tracker
<ali1234> and DBTS is awful - impossible to search or browse it
<ali1234> the only bug tracker worse than bugzilla
<zmoylan-pi> sounds like a... bug :-p
<ali1234> DBTS is the only reason I don't use debian
<TwistedLucidity> You haven't seen the IBM p.o.s. I have to suffer
<zmoylan-pi> if it's ibm, pos is implied
<popey> aaaaagh
 * davmor2 bear hugs JamesTait 
<popey> firefox so slow
<JamesTait> That's the spirit, davmor2. :)
<zmoylan-pi> qupzilla is a lite browser, bit crashy but nippy
<popey> only 11 tabs open
<zmoylan-pi> but for how long and on what sites?
<zmoylan-pi> tweetdeck sucks ram the longer it is run
<davmor2> popey: use the ubuntu-browser
<TwistedLucidity> popey: Sure it's FF and not just some site open in FF? There is a lot of dodgy JS out there....
<zmoylan-pi> i find killing the browser and restarting it once twice a day speeds things up a fair bit
<zmoylan-pi> sad but true
<TwistedLucidity> FF does seem to be a big heavy, but I normally run it with 15+ tabs open; to be expected I guess. I would use another browser, but haven't found one as good.
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<bigcalm> Text on my desktop has shrunk. Anybody know how to fix this? https://www.dropbox.com/s/ml58sgxt2qglke1/tiny_text.png?dl=0
<davmor2> popey: see if the googletalk is still running if it is kill that
<popey> TwistedLucidity: chromium doesn't slow down like this with the same sites
<popey> so while there may be "crappy js" out there, my point remains that ff feels slower than other browsers
<TwistedLucidity> Add-ons also cause issues.
<TwistedLucidity> But if Chromium works better...
<popey> yes, vague hand-wavy things are true, but I want to find the specifics â¹
<ali1234> what do you mean "specifics"?
<popey> well, on chromium with "every tab is a process" I can see which one is eating the cpu
<popey> all I can see here is one big ff process
<popey> so no way of knowing which tab it is, or which extension it is
<ali1234> if you go to about:memory you can see memory use per tab... it's a good bet that the one using 4GB is also using the CPU
<davmor2> popey: isn't there  adebug mode for firefox
<popey> about:memory is somewhat obtuse to read, but okay
<popey> none are using a lot of RAM
<popey> total footprint of ff is 1.6GB
<popey> I'm not doing anything and its using 50% cpu and typing in the browser is painful
<davmor2> popey: FF for me is like 8% what do you do to it :)
<popey> yes, of course, my fault, sorry.
<popey> killed the google talk plugin
<popey> still 30-40%
<popey>  5066 alan      20   0 2640424 1.137g 108128 S  70.8  7.3 299:27.85 firefox
<ali1234> it's normally around 30% for me
<davmor2> popey: do you have google plus open
<davmor2> popey: I just discovered in FF with gplus, if you have a screen full of text about 10% screen with 2 gifs 53%
<ali1234> yet another example of why anything other that native processes on the CPU is a bad idea in general
<zmoylan-pi> some sort of g+ client perhaps... :-)
<ali1234> offloading to the GPU has the same problem: namely, no processes management
<davmor2> popey:  6557 davmor2   20   0 2198868 0.994g  89580 S   6.6 13.0   3:20.32 firefox  on text  6557 davmor2   20   0 2200088 0.988g  89580 R  54.1 12.9   3:31.25 firefox     on 2 gifs
<davmor2> popey: I blame imgurl close that tab ;)
<vad3rman1156> what's the best network for an android tablet for calls, texts and Internet? please do not say giffgaff!
<zmoylan-pi> define best, cheap, fast?
<vad3rman1156> huh?
<vad3rman1156> like best for signal etc
<zmoylan-pi> ah, reliable, surely that would depend on what part of uk you live in?
<vad3rman1156> birmingham
 * popey says giffgaff
 * vad3rman1156 slaps popey 
<davmor2> vad3rman1156: well begin as you can get most sim cards either free or for a pound from you local corner shop I suggest go grab some find the one with the best signal and then top that one up :)
<davmor2> free from provider
<vad3rman1156> well I had a giffgaff I topped up but due to bad signal my tab was dying QUICK!
 * zmoylan-pi seems to remember apps on android way back that showed what 2g/3g towers where nearby and what signal strenght they where...
<vad3rman1156> < new to android :P
<davmor2> vad3rman1156: Network Signal Info
<zmoylan-pi> this was on my first android device a htc hero which shipped with donut iirc
<vad3rman1156> yeah better battery stats kept saying no or unknown signal.
<vad3rman1156> thinking about it, my phone is on giffgaff and that only gets 3 hours screen on....giffgaff sucks!
 * czajkowski tickles davmor2 hello sunshine! 
<davmor2> czajkowski: hello
<willcooke> ali1234, hi!  Do you have a circuit diagram for your 433 remote control sockets project?  From the photo on G+ it looks like "just plug it in" and there any other components on the top side of the Minimus board?
<willcooke> s/and there/are there
<ali1234> nope, it is just the two boards directly connected together
<willcooke> ali1234, nice! thanks
<willcooke> ali1234, how long is your antenna if you don't mind me asking? ;)
<ali1234> as long as you see in the picture. about 1 inch
<willcooke> thanks
<ali1234> the radio board only has four pins, power, gnd, data, antenna
<ali1234> power and data are connected directly to GPIO lines so that it can be turned off when not in use
<ali1234> gnd is gnd and antenna is any piece of wire
<Azelphur> whelp, that's my day ruined. http://i.imgur.com/I50wEj1.jpg xD
<willcooke> ali1234, brilliant!  I'm going to give it a go, I'll let you know how I get on.  Thanks for the software too :)
<Azelphur> no fancy home automation lights for me just yet.
<ali1234> willcooke: did you find somewhere that sells minimus boards and isn't incredibly dodgy?
<ali1234> they are, in my opinion, the best AVR dev board anyone has ever made
<ali1234> but unfortunately they were designed for illegal purposes, so nobody legit sells them
<willcooke> ali1234, ha!  No, ebay in the end - but quite expensive @ 8.50 each (or thereabouts) but the Tyneside place just feels bad to me.  Paypal doesnt work anymore and the other payment provide looks dodgy as hell
<willcooke> they're hard to find, even on places like aliexpress
<willcooke> I think a few hackspaces have a load of them, but none near me sadly
<ali1234> i actually bought them from a different place
<ali1234> but that place was even more dodgy, i had to pay with bitcoin
<willcooke> :D
<ali1234> they arrived in less than 24 hours though
<ali1234> the website crashed when taking my order however
<willcooke> ha!
<ali1234> and i had to email the owner and sort it all out manually
<willcooke> urgh
<willcooke> Hopefully ebay will come through
<foobarry> heh
<ali1234> the code should be trivial to port to a different board anyway, it's just that nobody else makes boards that you can plug directly in like a thumbdrive; that's the best thing ever
<foobarry> before ebay there used to be much more consumer confidence
<foobarry> now i assume everything is fake
<zmoylan-pi> nothing like a russian url for an ecommerce site to inspire trust :-)
<willcooke> :)
<foobarry> allofmp3
<ali1234> what i need now is a 433MHz lightswitch so i can control the "big" light as well as all the lamps
<zmoylan-pi> i wanted the russian dos that they used on satellites for a dos point of sales system we were setting up way back but i couldn't get my boss to trust the russkies :-(
<zmoylan-pi> some sort of nerf turret that shoots the light switches? :-p
<willcooke> ali1234, could you dismantle one of those plugs and fit it inline with the pendant?  Leave the main switch on all the time to provide power
<willcooke> hide it in the lamp shade
<ali1234> yeah, i don't really like messing with mains electricity
<ali1234> but i thought about it
<willcooke> :)
<willcooke> you just have to jump at the right time and it's totally safe
<zmoylan-pi> the nerf gives you a compressed air gap :-)
<ali1234> it should be possible to put it inside the light switch pattress box, then i wouldn't need to leave the switch in a particular position (because the switch thing is just a relay)
<willcooke> getting live & neutral to a light switch isn't straight forward
<willcooke> in my house at least, the switch only has a live and earth
<willcooke> neutral is provide by the lighting ring in the ceiling
<foobarry> this is why we go to work
<foobarry> to pay people to do dangerous things
<foobarry> and to fix our cars
<willcooke> where's the fun in that? ;)
<zmoylan-pi> eyebrows are for losers :-)
<popey> people who owned my house before us, used the earth for neutral from downstairs to upstairs light switch
<popey> "lol"
<foobarry> its part of hte wedding vows
<willcooke> popey, that's not that uncommon
<willcooke> sadly
<willcooke> house built in the late 60s early 70s?
<popey> the guy who owned it is a builder
<willcooke> there you go
<popey> loads of silly things like that
<foobarry> our extension has seen different guys to do the bricks/digging/roof/etc
<foobarry> builder owns house: does everything :S
<czajkowski> oh soo full yummy nice food stalls in the streets around here!
<czajkowski> bonus for leaving the house
<willcooke> czajkowski, is your office in London?  How often are you down there?
<czajkowski> willcooke: every monday from now on although next week I'm up there 3 days as we're at Apps World
<czajkowski> over in Shoreditch
<willcooke> czajkowski, I'll give you a shout if I'm in town on a Monday
<czajkowski> do indeed
<popey> willcooke: we went to apps world once didnt we?
<willcooke> popey, yeah - it sucked
<popey> remember all those Smart TVs with Big Buck Bunny on â»
<willcooke> so, ya know - have fun czajkowski  :D
<czajkowski> ndeed
<willcooke> that was a few years ago, but it was full of one-man-band app creator companies all offering the same thing
<willcooke> to write your generic app for iphone & android
<czajkowski> willcooke: popey yes we're there to promote http://developer.couchbase.com/mobile/
<popey> neato
<ujjain> I have a question for Londonians.
<ujjain> where should I watch bonfire night this Saturday evening?
<zmoylan-pi> i thought bonfire night was the 5th?
<ujjain> or are all places in London kind of the same, people just want to get drunk rather than it being a nice spectacle as in the south, Lewis, Brighton etc.
<zmoylan-pi> or is it moveable?
<foobarry> theres a special thingin london  on saturday
<ujjain> Yeah, but a lot of stuff still happening this weekend
<zmoylan-pi> ireland could be underwater on halloween and we'd still set fire to the only dry parts for halloween no matter what.  :-)
<czajkowski> there is some london mayor thing on saturday morning followed by fireworks in the evening
<foobarry> ujjain: also go and see the poppies at tower of london
<ujjain> poppies are red?
<ujjain>     a herbaceous plant with showy flowers, milky sap, and rounded seed capsules. Many poppies contain alkaloids and are a source of drugs such as morphine and codeine.
<ujjain> ah ok, I like morphine, thanks for the suggestion mate.
<MooDoo> howdy all
<ujjain> do freelancers pay less tax or something? I dont understand this salary calculator for contractor, it says 6500 salary monthly would be over 5000 take home
<willcooke> ujjain, could be that it expects you to pay national insurance etc out of your pocket rather than paye
<ujjain> ahh, hmm.
<willcooke> dunno - just guessing
<willcooke> popey used to contract I think
<foobarry> contractors pay corporate tax
<foobarry> because they are a "company"
<diddledan> foobarry: nuh uh
<foobarry> no? thats what the sith african guys were telling me
<diddledan> foobarry: only if they incorporate will they be liable for corporate tax
<foobarry> all i know is they get around 3x the amount that permies get at our place, and stick around for 2 yrs
<diddledan> foobarry: plain self-employed just pay incometax and national insurance
<foobarry> so essneitally making all the permies despise them
<MooDoo> ooo lxd
<diddledan> permies get benefits in kind tho - pension scheme, holiday pay, employer's national insurance top-up
<diddledan> sick pay, also
<foobarry> sure. but 3x the wage for less accountability?
<popey> it works both ways
<popey> I've worked (as a contractor) where the permies did naff all
<popey> being a permie was a spectator sport
<foobarry> i see that a lot
<TwistedLucidity> foobarry: Go contracting ing, earn 3x what you do now
<popey> they watch the contrators do the work
<foobarry> mainly because they feel devalued by perceived unfair system
<popey> been multiple places like that in fact
<popey> i dont think you can generalise like that
<foobarry> if the contractors were used for short term contracts it would be ok
<foobarry> but its so hard to sack/eliminiate permies at our gaff then they just hired contractors for 2,3 years
<popey> and most contractors I know don't take home "3x" what permies do
<foobarry> to deal with it
<foobarry> they should be fixed term rathr than daily rate
<foobarry> our permies our paid less
<foobarry> than many
<foobarry> but the contractors are paid city contrator rates
<foobarry> i've worked at many companies, this is the worst situation
<foobarry> although in the bank some  contrators were on 250,000
<foobarry> even 15 yrs ago :S
<foobarry> i don't mind contractors used for their intended purpose but abuse of the system leads to dissent and general malaise
<foobarry> it will ultimately lead to outsourcing if the permies underperform
<ujjain> ah awesome, I only make 150k
<ujjain> everything you read on the internet is true
<ujjain> naaah, I wish I made more, but I guess IT people have good salaries.
<diddledan> 150k?!
<diddledan> this is pounds sterling, right?
<foobarry> he's joking
<foobarry> many IT people are on very average salaries
<foobarry> hopefully they enjoy their jobs
<zmoylan-pi> spot the i.t. staff heavy drinking in every pub on a friday night
<foobarry> office workers
<zmoylan-pi> those too
<foobarry> but IT staff tend to dominate the bars in our building
<foobarry> old guard mainly
<foobarry> 50+ greybeards
<zmoylan-pi> walk up and ask a ms windows query... :-)
<foobarry> plex app on tablet is nice
<foobarry> subtitles appear 1s too late :(
<foobarry> more annoying than i expected
<popey> have you seen http://mediabrowser.tv/
<czajkowski> popey: willcooke https://www.apps-world.net/germany/
<foobarry> no
<ujjain> diddledan, naaah, 150k not true, a little less than 2 times the average income in the UK
<popey> free software plex-like
<ujjain> popey, how do you feel about contractor work in IT?
<ujjain> if you don't mind me asking
<foobarry> i wonder if it hand;es library generation any better than plex
<popey> I did it for 10 years
<popey> Enjoyed it.
<popey> But it's stressful when you don't have a contract
<foobarry> and it was SAP :S
<popey> and the rates can vary, so the whole "3x permie" is not as gold as it sounds
<ujjain> ah ok, I might do it some day. Because I don't do anything at my job, but Facebook/Reddit, and it's a bit boring.
<foobarry> :-|
<ujjain> really? It sounnds like permies pay more or the same tax as contractors
<popey> i dont want to get into specifics of salaries/rates
<popey> but the rate I was paid dropped dramatically over the years
<popey> we had an influx of people from india flood the market
<popey> (and other countries)
<popey> which meant rates dropped significantly
<diddledan> as soon as you start publicly talking numbers either you'll annoy people that earn less or get annoyed when someone tells you they earn more
<popey> heh
<popey> and the tax paid depends on the person
<christel> ... and on your accountant!
<christel> ;)
<popey> some people do all kinds of tricks to avoid paying tax
<popey> indeed
<Azelphur> I have a very good friend that contracts, he has managed to keep his contract for like 10 years though, so he's golden
<popey> yeah, i know a guy who contracted for 10 years at 1k/day
<Azelphur> so he is living the 3x permie dream I guess :)
<Azelphur> dam haha
<popey> drove a beaten up vauxhall nova to work
<popey> didn't show off at all
<popey> wore a tatty suit.
<popey> then one day decided to treat himself and turned up in a jaguar â»
<zmoylan-pi> ate sandwiches from home for lunch?
<Azelphur> hehe nice
<popey> yes zmoylan-pi
<zmoylan-pi> every penny counts
<popey> he worked hard. harder than any of the permies we worked with.
<popey> not sure he worked "1k/day" hard
<popey> but that was the rate back then
<diddledan> dotcom bubble?
<foobarry> the 1k day guy i knew was 35 stone
<diddledan> foobarry: I need to eat more
<popey> Y2K bubble
<Azelphur> I'm really enjoying my current salary job, admittedly I'm not paid anywhere near what I'm worth (Â£18.7k) but I get nice bonuses, and I work from home, and I can work whenever I want, take days off whenever I want, they don't even log my hours, and they are buying me a really nice laptop :)
<christel> .
<foobarry> chuffed down leffe like it was water
<Azelphur> so that's nice and all.
<christel> perhaps he got paid by the lb? :)
<foobarry> its imoprtant to do a job you enjoy
<Azelphur> oh, and my salary is in BTC too \o/
<Azelphur> foobarry: indeed
<foobarry> or if not, be compensated in salary
<popey> Hmm, Hudl2 does this wierd thing where it gets charge full then flip flops between charging and not charging
<popey> rapidly like 5/sec
<popey> anyone seen that with android devices?
<Azelphur> popey: you got a hudl2?
<popey> yes
<Azelphur> nice
<popey> yeah, it's an excellent device
<popey> better than the nexus 7
<Azelphur> popey: most phones bump charge in order to not destroy the battery
<Azelphur> maybe that's what you're seeing
<foobarry> trickle ?
<popey> no i mean, the light flashes on and off
<popey> constantly
<popey> lemme video
<Azelphur> popey: maybe it's a really bad implementation of bump charging :)
<popey> ah, only does it when the screen is on
<Azelphur> popey: that's impressive though, my dad was asking me about one the other day, what's the battery life like?
<zmoylan-pi> my asus 7" tablet charges for a few mins then doesn't for a few minutes.  i'd say 1 min on and 1 min off.  never timed it
<Azelphur> I would have thought that x86 would drain the battery real fast
<popey> nah
<popey> I watched 6 hours of HD films
<foobarry> mediabrowser is mono .
<popey> then the battery died
<popey> yes, yes it is.
<foobarry> hudl 2 is x86???
<Azelphur> nice
<popey> yes
<Azelphur> foobarry: yup
<foobarry> wow i didnt know
<popey> its really nicely built too
<popey> feels nice in the hand
<popey> 1080p too
<popey> I have very few faults with it
<foobarry> why did they do x86
<popey> why not?
<popey> not the first
<awilkins> Probably got a nice bung from Intel to shift x86 mobile processors
<popey> probably scored a good deal from the ODM
<ujjain> thanks for sharing popey :)
<ujjain> a hudl2 seems a bitb ig right?
<popey> yeah
<ujjain> the border seems big
<ujjain> the thing around the glass
<ujjain> my nexus 5 has a horrible battery.
<Azelphur> I actually like the idea of the x86
<popey> you need a border on a tablet, to hold the thing
<Azelphur> I bet you could do some interesting hacking with it
<popey> yeah, that was my idea
<zmoylan-pi> i want a rasp pi tablet...
<popey> want to put ubuntu on it eventually
<popey> no, you don't â»
<Azelphur> popey: let me know if you do that, I'm interested :)
<popey> unless you want an underpowered tablet with poor battery life and which is an inch thick?
<foobarry> wonder if wife has stopped being sick yet
<popey> ujjain: np
<Azelphur> with that kind of review, I think I'm going to replace my usual "cheap tablet" recommendation from Nexus 7 to the Tesco Hudl2 :)
<foobarry> so much disease in this house
<popey> totally do so
<popey> I would buy one at the full price
<popey> ended up paying 40 quid for my hudl2
<zmoylan-pi> especially if you have a tesco clubcard with lots of points
<foobarry> ?
<Azelphur> popey: what's the OS like, have they stayed to their mostly vanilla Android roots?
<foobarry> i thouht it was 2x clubcard
<Azelphur> or have they aggresively tesco-ised it
<popey> yeah, it's android and some tesco BS
<ujjain> popey, how? I have 5000 tesco points, I don't understand so well
<Azelphur> popey: is that just the little button in the bottom left?
<popey> i haven't actually touched any of the tesco apps
<popey> no, lemme screenshot for you
<Azelphur> cool
<foobarry> 5000?
<Azelphur> then yea, different from the hudl 1
<ujjain> foobarry, yes.
<foobarry> thats 5000Â£ worth?
<ujjain> I think 50 worth
<foobarry> or 50.00
<foobarry> ah
<diddledan> 1 clubcard = 1p
<foobarry> i have about that, gonna spend on RAC rescue
<diddledan> 1 nectar = 0.5p
<foobarry> my tesco credit card pays me well
<foobarry> cos i  spend ~ 15k pa onm it
<ujjain> i think maybe i'll buy avios
<ujjain> how much is Â£15k credit card spendingi n tesco points?
<ujjain> Â£150 worth of tesco points seems so much?
<Azelphur> I have like Â£20 on my clubcard now haha
<davmor2> popey: blinkbox is apparently worth it I have no idea if it is or not, but stepson is using it instead of netflix and is loving it
<popey> i already have netflix
<popey> and amazon
<popey> so dont "need" blinkbox
<Azelphur> "This is a stylish, desirable, and cheap full-featured Android tablet  that will satisfy the whole family. It completely outshines virtually  everything in the same price bracket. You'll be impressed at just how  much Tesco's Hudl 2 offers for your money."
<Azelphur> wow, techradar likes it
<popey> There you go, 7 screenshots http://imgur.com/SuwZgJD,3pc2ley,B4mUC63,yuTzdmN,cuTzAvI,PpvGUIo,jnUmk3h
<popey> mostly stock, as it comes, with a few apps added here and there, but not much modified
<Azelphur> ah, yes that's just like the hudl 1
<popey> I haven't clicked any of the tesco icons yet :
<Azelphur> extra apps and the tesco button at the top right (or bottom left depending on orientation)
<popey> saw someone has rooted it and removed the tesco apps
<Azelphur> yea, that's easy to do
<Azelphur> you should be able to just disable the tesco apps from settings though
<popey> they dont bother me
<ujjain> i dont understand tesco, :( can I get the hudl2 for 5000 tesco points?
<popey> ujjain: go to the website and find out?
<popey> just add it to your basket and it will tell you
<ujjain> i did both, still no idea,
<ujjain> let me try to upgrade my thinking level and see if I can figure it out
<Azelphur> popey: hehe duolingo trolled me the other day, https://www.dropbox.com/s/amddm5tln5szwsh/2014-11-05%2003.00.17.png?dl=0 note the timestamp on the notification
<ujjain> :D
<ujjain> I think you can only get the udle2 with clubcard vouchers, not with points
<ujjain> I only have 2.5 in vouchers
<popey> haha
<popey> there you go
<Azelphur> ujjain: aww
<popey> yeah, i used vouchers
<popey> so yeah, I'm very happy with it. I use it every day
<Azelphur> popey: juicessh, interesting, do you choose that over connectbot for any reasons? or is that just the one you settled on
<ujjain> yeah,everybody seems positive about it
<popey> neve ruse it Azelphur
<Azelphur> fair enough :)
<popey> installed because I had it on a previous device
<popey> I never need ssh that urgently â»
<Azelphur> popey: I use connectbot and I have a tasker task that changes my keyboard to hackers keyboard when I use connectbot, really handy
<popey> screenshots please?
<Azelphur> of hackers keyboard / connectbot?
<popey> i am looking around at mobile terminal apps, want to improve ours
<popey> yeah, whatever you use to do terminal on a mobile device
<Azelphur> ah, I'll get you a bunch of screenshots
<popey> thanks
<popey> the hudle needs a chunky charger
<popey> it wont charge off anything less than 2A
<popey> especially if the screen is on
<popey> it wont even charge off my Anker battery pack
<ujjain> what can I do with tesco points btw? I only see what I can do with vouchers, but vouchers are not points,
<ujjain> maybe it takes time before points before vouchers
<Azelphur> popey: https://owncloud.azelphur.com/owncloud/public.php?service=gallery&t=f5d6e0eaf4f9b10665f1d64e83f6cba2
<Azelphur> one of the really useful things is it hijacks the volume control and uses it to set the terminal resolution
<popey> what size device you doing that on?
<popey> those keys look small
<popey> thanks for the screenshots.
<Azelphur> popey: Nexus 5
<Azelphur> and yea, they are small, hackers keyboard is a little fiddly but with SSH it's more beneficial to have a full keyboard and have it be a tad fiddley.
<foobarry> points are converted to vouchers every 3 months
<Azelphur> interesting
<foobarry> when u spend Â£1 on a tesco credit card at any retails u get points
<foobarry> and more pts at tesco ofc
<foobarry> so buying my annual season ticket gives me 1000 pts instantly
<Azelphur> I have 42 points and Â£21 in vouchers \o/
<Azelphur> foobarry: I think I heard something about vouchers counting for 2x against the hudls or something?
<foobarry> they also send me 750 pts occasionally to reatin me as customer, which is the only company i know who actively retain you
<foobarry> Azelphur: yes
<foobarry> clubcard boost
<Azelphur> so I could get a hudl 2 for Â£87?
<Azelphur> that's actually pretty cool
<foobarry> With the Hudl2 you also get Â£60 of vouchers including:
<foobarry> â¢ Â£25 free blinkbox credit to spend on movies, books and music
<foobarry> etc
<ujjain> ahhh thanks foobarry, now I understand.
<foobarry> quidco also give 1.5% on tesco direct purchases
<Azelphur> indeed
<ujjain> good stuff.
<ujjain> UK supermarkets are very expensive, but at least you guys have nice rewards.
<ujjain> I used to pay Â£6.50 for 24x330ml Heineken.
<ujjain> I bought for 25 pound tesco stuff
<Azelphur> foobarry: oO
<ujjain> 5 pound cashback and 5 pound discount for first time customer
<ujjain> was pretty good, and you get some bonus points automatically.
<ujjain>  Tesco Grocery New Customer Purchase  http://www.topcashback.co.uk/tesco/
<ujjain> 5.25
<foobarry> Hudl 2
<foobarry> Exclusive Offer!
<foobarry> Ends In 2 Days
<foobarry> 2.62%
<ujjain> yahoo
<Azelphur> "Where the Nexus 7 really outshines the Hudl 2 is battery life. The Hudl 2  achieved a time of just 6hrs 51mins in our looping video test; the  Nexus 7 achieved 11hrs 48mins. The Hudl 2 also doesn't last well on  standby."
<Azelphur> seems the Nexus 7 is better on the battery at least
<Azelphur> but in benchmarks the hudl wins
<foobarry> arm vs x86
<Azelphur> indeed
<Azelphur> I think the pcpro review has a nexus 7 bias though
<popey> not just that
<popey> bigger screen
<popey> what res is the nexus 7?
<Azelphur> popey: same res screen as the nexus 7 (1920x1200)
<popey> interesting
<foobarry> roof tiles going on the extension
<popey> I'd agree with the 6 hours film playback
<foobarry> autumn has been good to my builders
<popey> given I was on an 8 hour flight
<popey> and it died before we landed
<Azelphur> however the review mentions that the Hudl 2 uses dynamic contrast, while the Nexus 7 doesn't
<foobarry> last time i was on a flight, tablets didn't exist
<foobarry> nor kindles..
<popey> i proably have a different tablet every time i fly
<czajkowski> popey: see over there ----->
<popey>                                                            what?
<DJones> Azelphur: My wife replaced her N7 with a Hudl2, she's not had any complaints about battery life, she's said its as good as the N7 and she uses it quite a lot for streaming video (netflix/Skygo)
<foobarry> my daughter keeps appearing holding stock cubes
<foobarry> at least i know what she wants for xmas
<foobarry> made some progress on my diorama. needs colour correction though http://i.imgur.com/alTouEg.jpg
<popey> what do you do with them when they're finished?
<foobarry> i have 2 ikea glass display cabinets
<foobarry> usually i model in 1:72 so they can fit a lot
<foobarry> except the lancaster, which will go on son's ceiling
<foobarry> in true airfix style
<foobarry> the dio will have a tank on the left, hence tracks
<foobarry> and puddles, which i need to go to a nail bar for
<foobarry> and buy acrylic gel :S
<Azelphur> DJones: nice
<mapps> what a useless airport..cant go anywhere but UK from Gibralar airport basically
<mapps> ;[
<MooDoo> well i hope the rain stops :(
<mapps> :(
<MooDoo> fireworks tonight
<davmor2> MooDoo: take a brolly
<MooDoo> davmor2: supposed to stop in a few hours, fingers crossed
<MooDoo> davmor2: was it you who were telling me about lxd?  or was that lxc?
<davmor2> MooDoo: It's England, It's a big event weekend, It's going to rain :D
<MooDoo> :D
<davmor2> MooDoo: I told you to try LXC ages ago
<davmor2> MooDoo: LXD is just the next progression
<MooDoo> yeah couldn't remember, just been watching lxd stuff
<diddledan> lxd?
<MooDoo> secure container hypervisor deamon
<davmor2> diddledan: lxc with knobs on
<diddledan> how do I get my own knobs?
<MooDoo> sudo apt-get install knobs
<davmor2> diddledan: http://www.ubuntu.com/cloud/tools/lxd
<Laney> why did they make it lex-dee when lxc is lxc? :(
<davmor2> diddledan: also just try opening and door in your home with your own Knobs :P
<Laney> oh, they claim it's lex-c later on
<davmor2> Laney: we have been saying it wrong for years and apparently LXD sounds like a drug :D
<Laney> lsd?
<davmor2> Laney: see sabdfls video on the subject
<Laney> well, good luck ;-)
<ujjain> is feeling bad while doing nothing and having to do nothing at work weird?
<MooDoo> ujjain: nope not at all, same here, but I get to leave in 5 mins
<ujjain> meh, this is no life, every day nothing, so empty, I used to be ok with it, but it's too much free time
<MooDoo> then do something else in your down time, study for an exam or something?
<ujjain> yeah, I guess I should think about more useful things to do
<foobarry> ujjain: what's yr area of expertise?
<ujjain> linux sysadmin
<foobarry> learn openstack?
<foobarry> there's no end of stuff to learn with linux
<foobarry> docker?
<foobarry> get up to speed on latest tech for when you do next job
<foobarry> done your RHSCA?
<ujjain> yeah, I spend 40 hours a week on that stuff
<ujjain> yeah, I have my RHCE training+exam in 3 weeks
<ujjain> but after a while, it becomes too much time, but I think I'll apply for a different position within the company or maybe contract work in future
<foobarry> thats why i make model kits out of hours
<foobarry> because tv is junk and my brain is tired but i want to be creative and relax
<ujjain> yeah, I need to do something creative too, osmething that makes me feel good, a project that I'd have passion for. I spent time with docke,r but at one moment you don't have a real goal in mind.
<foobarry> i bet the monitoring in your place isn't up to scratch
<foobarry> look into adagios, logstash, graphite, etc
<foobarry> great monitoring makes you look awesome
<foobarry> monitor everything and blow the bosses minds
<ujjain> if I make a change, 30.000 servers will be impacted
<ujjain> I was working on that, but everything happens in the US, we are just night shift.
<ujjain> they just want us to do repairs in the 6 hours the US sleeps
<ujjain> I miss working with 1500 servers and doing everything in a smaller Linux team, you can do much that way.
<ujjain> but thanks for thinking along, I think I should join a different team, other teams should be better
<foobarry> sounds like you are stuck in ops world
<foobarry> ops guys cannot change stuff , or solve problems in interesting ways because the role is locked down
<ujjain> yeah true, I am foobarry
<ujjain> but support is not much better either
<ujjain> I guess maybe devops would be nice
<foobarry> http://www.crowdcube.com/caterham/
<foobarry> http://games.slashdot.org/story/14/11/07/1237236/major-performance-improvement-discovered-for-intels-gpu-linux-driver
<foobarry> maybe i can run that with my 20% faster kernel promised a year or so back
<popey> eh
<popey> *heh
<zmoylan-pi> and run it on a quantum computer powered by your mr. fusion?
<diddledan> foobarry: that 20% faster kernel - do I know about that?
 * diddledan needs linkbait
<foobarry> olde promise we never got
<zmoylan-pi> where to start...
<foobarry> was from some 100 line change
<zmoylan-pi> bubble memory was the first i remember from 80s
<zmoylan-pi> was going to change everything!!!!
<diddledan> I think I recall everyone saying that desktops were about to get awesome speed boosts, if that's the same issue. what actually happened to make it not arrive?
<popey> You'll Never Believe What This 100 Line Patch Will Do To Your System!!!!
<diddledan> IIRC it was an interrupt/timing thing
<foobarry> http://askubuntu.com/questions/13562/how-do-we-get-this-magic-performance-boosting-200-line-patch
<Azelphur> wait, when did this become buzzfeed
<zmoylan-pi> windows for pen was going to change everything in early 90s.  the fud killed go unfortunately
<foobarry> you wont believe what happened next
<foobarry> no speed up
<popey> wow, 4 years ago
<zmoylan-pi> you shouldn't antropomorphise penguins.  they hate it when you do that :-) https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B124WfOIYAEftmw.jpg:large
<diddledan> lol
<foobarry> what happpened to the url bot in here?
<diddledan> I was told to shut it down
<foobarry> heh
<foobarry> by non irssi users
<zmoylan-pi> someone pointed it at itself and it's off url gazing :-)
<Myrtti> I think I just asked if you had asked permission for it and pointed out that it might be a good idea to turn it off until you do get a permission.
<popey> well, actually nobody said remove it
<popey> exactly
<Myrtti> and I am greatly offended by your allegation that I'm not an irssi user ;____;
<Myrtti> *snif*
 * zmoylan-pi hands Myrtti an ascii hankie
<diddledan> I didn't get around to that bit
<Myrtti> talking of irssi
<Myrtti> woo new irssi from few weeks back
<Myrtti> I still should dig some time to finish the theme I wrote for it
<foobarry> i updated it too. dont remember if there was a reason to so do
<Myrtti> next update might make sasl inbuilt
<Myrtti> bah. https://play.google.com/store/devices/details?id=lg_g_watch_r_black
<zmoylan-pi> go on holidays to a country it is available?
<zmoylan-pi> or get a relative in a country where it is for sale to order and ship it to you?
<Myrtti> that's all fine and dandy, but someone (not me) ordered themselves a Moto360 yesterday from expansys.
<zmoylan-pi> ah, now it becomes clear
<zmoylan-pi> cancel expansys order?
<zmoylan-pi> if it hasn't shipped already
<Myrtti> he claims that he still prefers the Moto360. Who knows.
<Myrtti> Men.
<Myrtti> pah.
 * zmoylan-pi hands Myrtti a cattle prod to help extract better answers
<ali1234> diddledan: the 100 line patch arrived, it's enabled by default
<Myrtti> time to go boil some pasta, methinks.
<Myrtti> then to pub
<christel> i am so rock and roll that i just returned from the pub!
 * brobostigon went to the pub last night, for pub quiz.
<zmoylan-pi> and did you use google to look up answers?
<brobostigon> no.
<zmoylan-pi> bing?
<brobostigon> no.
<brobostigon> no assistance of any kind, and me and my gf coming last again, proves it.
<zmoylan-pi> you need a better phone :-)
<brobostigon> haha
<zmoylan-pi> or ask if amazon echo can be a team mate :-p
<brobostigon> or if google music can help with the music questions.
<zmoylan-pi> i use soundhound for that
<brobostigon> :)
<foobarry> the pub quiz is dead, it needs to evolve into non googleable questions
<brobostigon> like dingbats?
<zmoylan-pi> what is the nearest chinese restaurant to this pub sort of question
<brobostigon> lol
<zmoylan-pi> what colour is the wall outside the pub?
<popey> there is probably a market in making questions which aren't googleable
<zmoylan-pi> the same list of questions would generate different answers in different locations
<popey> you could do ones that need lateral thinking
<zmoylan-pi> but you'd need a few 1000 questions to draw a random list from
<popey> not general knowledge
<popey> like Riddling does
<ali1234> i played riddling the other day
<ali1234> i got to some level and i think that the questions are out of date
<ali1234> because i can't find the answer
<ali1234> i think it's US cities by population, and i think the order has changed
<popey> aq gave a fun talk at oggcamp about riddling
<ali1234> level 24 if anyone has the answers
<foobarry> are oggcamp talks online?
<foobarry> (2014)
<popey> some
<foobarry> "men have hobbies and females don't understand them"..
<foobarry> detectorists has bene my favourite tv of the year
<popey> yes
<popey> same here
<popey> watched 3 eps back to back
<daftykins> https://www.humblebundle.com/store - Metro 2033 free
<MartijnVdS> banished cheap
<MartijnVdS> what's metro 2033
<daftykins> some dark corridor post apocalyptic Russian type shooter thing
<daftykins> i think it's based on a book series
<MooDoo> BANG!!!!!!!
<brobostigon> BOOM
<MooDoo> sorry been to a fireworks party at my sisters :D
<daftykins> hah
<daftykins> on Wednesday night it took me ages to work out why there were fireworks going off :(
<daftykins> i was that aware of the date
 * brobostigon has a fireworks party to go to tmrw, with the gf.
<MooDoo> :)
<brobostigon> hopefully the weather will cooperate, its forecasting rain most of tmrw afternoon/evening
<MooDoo> glad it stopped tonight.
<daftykins> mmm definitely more chilly of late now
<brobostigon> agreed.
<Azelphur> http://youtu.be/GafOuTf5ntQ ...had to be done.
<daftykins> XD
<daftykins> these Amazon FireTVs are really becoming tough to resist
<daftykins> as an XBMC type contraption
<zmoylan-pi> i'd probably need a tv first so it's not so hard...
<daftykins> not got HDMI input on your screens?
<daftykins> assuming you run a desktop
<zmoylan-pi> vga all the way, though my 'best' screen also does scart :-)
<zmoylan-pi> i acquired it when i needed a screen to setup up my pi
<daftykins> eww VGA
<zmoylan-pi> and if i could have found one of the antique cga/av crts my company used to sell i'd have used it in a heartbeat :-)
<ali1234> recommend dell U2410, it has composite video and it can just about manage PAL/NTSC on the VGA port
<ali1234> interlaced PAL looks a bit weird
<ali1234> NTSC is okay though
<zmoylan-pi> there's nothing like a warm crt in winter with a cat sleeping on top
<ali1234> the dell gets plenty hot too
<daftykins> there's nothing good about CRTs :(
<Azelphur> daftykins: my XBMC type contraption is a chromebox reflashed with openelec.
<daftykins> Azelphur: yarr, did it beat Â£65? :>
<Azelphur> nope
<Azelphur> was Â£160
<daftykins> yeah i already have my ion1 :(
<daftykins> i just like the idea of a more silent device
#ubuntu-uk 2014-11-08
<mapps> grrr
<mapps> freajking raining
<daftykins> :D
<mapps> ;D
<mapps> what you up to being up so early mate
<daftykins> XD
<daftykins> being one damaged individual
<daftykins> just finished a film
<daftykins> http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0338013/
<mapps> hm let me see
<mapps> not sure ive seen thst
<mapps> gonna watch the cube tomorrow..never seen it:)
<daftykins> ah yeah
<daftykins> think there are a few to that too?
<mapps> yea 3
<mapps> u seen 1st?
<daftykins> yip think so, many moons ago
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<mapps> afternoon
<Azelphur> can anyone explain how this works? http://pastebin.com/mVFLutDg
<Azelphur> according to du, I've got like 40GB used, not 250.
 * penguin42 looks
<penguin42> Azelphur: under where?
<Azelphur> what do you mean under where?
<penguin42> oh I see
<penguin42> Azelphur: So your /media is a separate 2TB mount?
<Azelphur> yea
<penguin42> Azelphur: OK, so there are a few reasons that can happen
<ali1234> i too do not understand the question
<penguin42> Azelphur: One reason is that you might have some stuff in /media on the main drive that's hidden by the mount
<Azelphur> ali1234: I'm trying to find out where all my drive space has gone, du is being less than helpful
<penguin42> Azelphur: So try umounting /media and duing it
<ali1234> use ncdu not du
<ali1234> du sucks
<penguin42> Azelphur: Similarly for /tmp or the like that's a shmfs mount
<Azelphur> penguin42: that was the correct answer, looks like it hasn't mounted my second drive for some reason and is instead writing backups onto the tiny 250GB drive.
<Azelphur> there we go, now things are much happier.
<Azelphur> thanks :)
<Azelphur> ali1234: btw, did you see my silly lights video? :)
<ali1234> yes
<Azelphur> hehe
<ali1234> looks like a good way to get rid of unwanted house guests
<Azelphur> that's true, it'd probably be remarkably effective
<Azelphur> especially if I played country music instead
<ali1234> why do you have windows that go to the floor?
<Azelphur> ali1234: the building is circa 1700s and is protected
<mapps> hmm
<mapps> my raspberrypi stopped working again..yet was plugged in and net up..anyopne got any ideas what could be causing it?!
<penguin42> mapps: I'd try adding some warm custard
<mapps> :D
<DJones> \o/ New drive installed & setup, just copying data off the old drive now
<penguin42> mapps: So without knowing the Pi specifically; 1) Check your SD card, they're made of cheese, 2) Check how you're powering it
<mapps> pah:P i cant im not there..so just check sd and cables afaik all fine
<mapps> where would it log any errors to that could cause it to die dmesg?
<penguin42> mapps: Well yes but that depends why it died, if it couldn't get to the SD for example then they won;t have been able to get recorded onto the said SD
<penguin42> mapps: If it does it regularly then try and setup network or serial logging to another machine
<mapps> its done it after a week of 24/7
<mapps> my dad unplugged it and plugged back in it boots up and all works fine agao
<mapps> if it runs out of memory..too much running would that d oit?
<penguin42> mapps: The other thing then to look for is how dead it is - does it still ping for example?  Also look if there is support for any watchdog timer on it so it can reset itself
<penguin42> mapps: If you've got a leak somewhere then yes
<mapps> couldnt ssh to it/reach apache or vpn didnt try pinging
<penguin42> mapps: ping first :-)
<mapps> watchdog timer?! surely there wouldnt be anythong to reset after x days if thats what you mean?!
<penguin42> mapps: The idea with a watchdog is that it's a timer that you have to prod every few seconds, if you don't it sends a reset
<mapps> ah
<penguin42> mapps: Then you get something that just checks everything is ok, and prods the timer; if anything breaks it resets
<mapps> as it assumes somethings gone wrong|
<mapps> ya
<penguin42> yep
<mapps> if it was rebooting it would be fine..eveything comes back to lie..apache..vpn..iptables rules etc
<mapps> but it just crashes/hangs from what i know..im not there..dad says its on..i cant reach it minute he unplugs and plugs back in works again;(
<penguin42> mapps: The other thing you can do is do things like write a program that just continously flashes an LED (I assume it has one you can do that to) - and when you invoke your dad to kick it, he can tell you if the LED is still flashing
<shauno> there's a fun task for an arduino there .. a hardware watchdog.  that if it hasn't had a 'blink' for long enough it powercycles
<penguin42> shauno: You don't need an arduino for that; I think you can do it with transistor+capacitor type of thing
<penguin42> shauno: Or relay+cap
<shauno> well yeah.  but arduinos are like Pis .. I have more than I'd like to admit :)
<shauno> (and can evolve pretty easily .. eg to provide a soft-off)
<shauno> I have a troubling amount of these knocking around .. http://oomlout.co.uk/collections/arduino/products/arduino-component-bundle-arcb
<penguin42> shauno: Oh that's quite a nice little set
<shauno> a couple of quid more than it needs to be, but I'm lazy
<penguin42> yeh, I was thinking it's a bit more pricey than shrimpit
<mapps> lol penguin42 re kicking it:D would be nice to know why it does it though
<penguin42> mapps: Right, but that's what your serial or network console type things help with if you can't get anything from the logs
<mapps> not sure what you mean by serial or network console..and on a pi??
<camason> Evening. I need to setup OpenVPN on a server in a remote office, but that's going to involve fiddling with network
<camason> what's the safest way to adjust settings? Any way I can do it and not lock myself out?
<ali1234> is there a way make it so that malloc will never reuse a virtual address? (other than never freeing memory at all)
<ali1234> with a 64 bit address space this should be at least feasible
<penguin42> camason: Give yourself another way in
<penguin42> camason: setup two vpn setups, only ever work on one at a time
<camason> penguin42 it's more I need to re-jig my eth settings, and I fear one mistake will take the network offline
<penguin42> ali1234: See man mallopt - but I don't think anything like that lets you do it
<penguin42> camason: Trust me, it will :-)
<penguin42> camason: Some type of watchdog where you arm the system to reboot itself/put it's self back to a good state is what you need then arm that before you make any change - if you really only have one way in
<camason> yes I was thinking perhaps a script that will execute after 5 mins, replacing /etc/network/interfaces with a known working config, then restarting it
<penguin42> camason: It is of course difficult to anticipate how you might screw it up
<camason> yup!
<camason> there are a myriad of ways when I'm involved :)
<penguin42> camason: Humans are creative
<penguin42> camason: Doing things like holding your config files is a good way to be able to roll back; but automating that I've not seen
<penguin42>  ^your config files in git....
<camason> reminds me of a line from The Thick Of It... that I could't replicate here for reasons of taste.
<ali1234> is it possible to tell valgrind i only care about memory referenced from a single source file?
<penguin42> ali1234: I know it has ways of marking areas of code, I'm not sure by source file
<mapps> penguin42,  what did yoiu mean by serial or network console
<penguin42> mapps: You can configure syslog to send all messages to another host, similarly you can configure the kernel to send console messages to another host; so if the SD card stops or a lot of other stuff fails you still see the messages
<penguin42> mapps: Similarly for a rs232/serial console
<mapps> i dont get it..so how can i do this on the pi
<mapps> 'network console'?:!
<penguin42> mapps: Is the pi the only machine there or is there another linux machine within spitting distance?
<mapps> ther'es another machine a dell desktop running Linux that i could getr my dad to turn on
<mapps> but can you explain what you mean when you say network console that i cant grasp..i know what the console is;p
<penguin42> mapps: Every piece of text that's output to the console gets sent over the network so that it can be logged
<mapps> aha
<mapps> surely errors and that wouldnt tho ..dont see them on console if they go to a log
<penguin42> mapps: Well it depends why it's dieing, if you're getting a kernel panic, some types of kernel panic will get to the console and over the network, some won't
<mapps> so if i jhad a console up and was logged in locally with as GUI kernel panics would show in that terminal?
<mapps> just be handy to find out so can fix it
<mapps> i want it running 24/7 and noones gonna be there most the time
<penguin42> mapps: Best not to have the GUI running, and best to turn the screen blanking off with setterm, but yes
<mapps> thanks
<penguin42> mapps: So you can ask someone just to turn a monitor on and take a picture of it before they powercycle it
<mapps> yea
<mapps> or network console could be a good idea?
<mapps>  but if i cant reach the pi ..surely its networks down so it wouldnt be able to reach the other machine?
<penguin42> well that depends how it died
<penguin42> mapps: Serial consoles are more primitive, they tend to be able to send things with almost everything else gone
<mapps> so network could still unction but apache/vpn dead?
<mapps> yea
<mapps> cant access it locally tho;)
<penguin42> that's why you need another pi to monitor the first pi....
<mapps> for network console? ..i could do that with the dell linux machine
<penguin42> yes you could
<penguin42> mapps: See https://www.kernel.org/doc/Documentation/networking/netconsole.txt
<mapps> thanks
<mapps> could it be as simple as i have too much running on it? vpn/apache/ftpd /mrtg ?
<penguin42> if you're running out of memory, possibly, but it's unlucky to kill everything
<mapps> Â£6.40 or a lite of stolichynia
<mapps> :D
<mapps> bargain
<penguin42> doesn't drink or smoke; what's the good chocolate like...
<mapps> i smoke more now im here
<mapps> as foolish as that is
#ubuntu-uk 2014-11-09
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<Ocean_> hi, i am using ubuntu 14.04 LTS with gnome 3.12 installed via ppa. Since i installed gnome 3.12 the shortcuts on keyboard has stopped working. i badly needs the prt sc working back again. any help will be much appreciated. thanks
<Azelphur> did a release upgrade and the upgrader moved my xorg.conf, how rude of it :p
<Azelphur> Canonicals build of compiz seems to become more and more functional every release http://pastebin.com/9vRQrMAx
<Azelphur> apart from that I don't get to whine about multi monitor functionality breakage, I think this is the most smooth release upgrade I've had so far \o/
<DJones> I thought TV sport couldn't get any lower, "Lingerie Football League" .... "Womens 7 on 7 football league",,,,,And yes, the rest of it becomes obvious, only in America
<MooDoo> evening all
<zmoylan-pi> exciting weekend MooDoo?
<MooDoo> zmoylan-pi: yeah it's been busy thanks.
<penguin42> I want to know who had the idea of putting a conversation between Brian Cox and Brian Blessed (& Alice Roberts)
<daftykins> penguin42: what did that appear in?
<penguin42> daftykins: Just been on Beeb 4
<penguin42> not (yet?) on iplayer
<zmoylan-pi> to test that your volume went to 11?
<daftykins> radiotimes.com seems to refer to Cosmos as being the last thing on, guess i missed it!
<daftykins> oh i can go earlier *facepalm*
<zmoylan-pi> the carl sagan cosmos or new version?
<daftykins> it said Carl Sagan yeah
<daftykins> i was meant to be spotting the program before it though - http://www.radiotimes.com/episode/c7wvj6/brian-cox-space-time--videotape--09112014
<zmoylan-pi> worth every penny on dvd
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> i've heard friends say good things about it but not seen myself
<zmoylan-pi> remember it as a kid.  just wonderful
<zmoylan-pi> sagan had a gift.  a gift of making you want to listen and learn.
<zmoylan-pi> nearly 40 years later we still look back on it as groundbreaking
<daftykins> we must synthesise this voice and make robot teachers
<zmoylan-pi> in one of the later episodes it shows him in a school in new york explaining to kids how science was just beginning to figure out how to spot planets around other suns. before we had done so.  just inspiring
#ubuntu-uk 2015-11-02
<daftykins> isn't that basically chrome-by-another-name now?
<diddledan_> true
<diddledan_> it's moved with chrome to the blink thingy instead of apple's webkit
<Guest29504> morning all
<MooDoo> morning even
<mapps> morning
<MooDoo> how are you mapps?
<mapps> all good, andd you?
<mapps> just watching homeland;D
<MooDoo> think I've watched a couple of episodes of that
<mapps> i was surprised by this series..theyre using real current stories ISIS..overthrong assad etc
<mapps> surely this gives ISIS more attention
<MooDoo> yeah probably
<mapps> having no net for a while sucked
<mapps> behind on films and tv:)
<MooDoo> I must admit I was on hols last week, so I've binge watched programs I missed
<mapps> ;D
<mapps> i have tv now yay uk chans..sky ..beIN sports :D
<MooDoo> :)
<mapps> all uses my net..so when my net died..it died;[
<mapps> and wow yesterday big storm so freaking windy scaffolding outside work blew down lol
<MooDoo> It's a bit foggy here at the moment.
<mapps> heavy rain tonight 8pm onwards
<mapps> weird how its so windy and bad rain..then nada
<davmor2> Morning all
<mapps> morning
<davmor2> so this is the tune stuck in my head this morning https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wsdy_rct6uo fantastic tune :)
<MooDoo> khowdy davmor2
<davmor2> MooDoo: caravan is bedded down for the next 5 months :'(
<MooDoo> davmor2: where's the van?
<davmor2> MooDoo: storage
<MooDoo> ah i get you, next time it's out, and you go away, invite us to come see you :)
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Monday, and happy Deviled Egg Day! ð
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<davmor2> JamesTait: see if this plays for you http://www.popscreen.com/v/6CTEK/Deviled-Eggs
 * zmoylan-pi settles on coffee and toast instead of boiled eggs or porridge for brekkie
<davmor2> JamesTait: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cP-TU0P2Lw4 that one works
<davmor2> JamesTait: about a minute in
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<JamesTait> davmor2, yeah, the first one didn't work, but the second one did. âº
<JamesTait> davmor2, about 0:54
<davmor2> :)
<ali1234> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=htxZZKv4pMw
<foobarry> wonder if we can crowdsource a campaign to ask tesco to hand over teh bootloader keys for hudl2
<foobarry> now they've ditched it
<zmoylan-pi> good luck
<foobarry> i think their android guy has left too
<Myrtti> browsed through Amazon's Deals of the Day section, and they've changed the layout of it. Accidentally added 30 Blurays on a wishlist.
<Myrtti> from their 2 for Â£10 deal bin
<zmoylan-pi> i never saw a single hudl here in ireland.  i was keen to get one for a while
<foobarry> still the best tablet for the price
<foobarry> although i heard they were stopping them because of screen cracking issues
<foobarry> my guess is that they are ditching blinkbox etc and realising they are not amazon
<diplo> foobarry: funnily enough I was reading up on that too, yeah lead engineer has gone and 2 of his underlings I believe, no hudl3 is going to come so I'd say we're not going to get anything
<foobarry> a real shame as i'd saved vouchers to buy another
<diplo> They are, decided in August so I read, and their home broadband
<foobarry> they have no reason *not* to release the keys
<zmoylan-pi> what's in it for them?
<diplo> They don't have the engineers to do it now ?
<foobarry> they have some reason to release them as lots of users up the creek without support
<foobarry> and 5.1 on the hudl2 just landed and experiencing a few problemw
<zmoylan-pi> that's not their problem now that they've abandoned them
<foobarry> they are still obliged to support those who just bought it
<zmoylan-pi> they can replace their defective units with another defective unit till the user gives up or fights for a refund
<foobarry> or give back to the users . many other tablets unklock bootloaders
<foobarry> now there is no incentive for tesco to lock it, they should
<zmoylan-pi> i just don't see tesco been that nice
<foobarry> i would even pay to unlock
<foobarry> i would also pay to unlock kindle fire
<foobarry> i wonder who the android devs were
<foobarry> maybe linkedin knows
<foobarry> that was quick
<foobarry> LinkedIn Member
<foobarry> Android Engineer (about to start something new)
<foobarry> Past
<foobarry> Lead Android Developer at Tesco (hudl)
<zmoylan-pi> will code for coupons... :-P
<foobarry> if you get a speeding ticket, you pay twice. my insurance has gone up loads
<awilkins> After ex-wife got one, she found it cheaper to have me on her policy as a second driver than without
<foobarry> some insurers don't touch you
<foobarry> :'(
<foobarry> should have contested it
<foobarry> a new meerkat might soothe the pain
<Myrtti> yay meerkats
<zmoylan-pi> or relax on a nice moomin cushion... http://imgur.com/sZulXCj
<foobarry> one of our meerkats has to stay in the box
<foobarry> the dog hates it
<foobarry> something about the eyes
<foobarry> she thinks its a squirrel or meerkat or something
<zmoylan-pi>  is there a way to transfer the smell of the dog on to the meerkat to help it accept it?
<foobarry> i don't think shes a dummy
<foobarry> she's bred for ratting
<foobarry> although hasn't caught our mouse yet
<diddledan_> that's because mouse != rat :-p
<zmoylan-pi> a dog/cat brought up seperate from other dogs/cats may not learn how to hunt
<zmoylan-pi> somewhere in all that picking kitten up by scruff of the neck mother cats impart the information on proper way to bring down a rottweiler :-P
<foobarry> my dog loves to chase squirerls and rabbits
<foobarry> and has despatched some
<diddledan_> hmm, http://techrights.org/2015/10/30/xamarin-vs-robovm-freedom/
<zmoylan-pi> ms is your friend...
<bashrc> ...or not as the case may be
<zmoylan-pi> no no, their pr is all about how they love open source
<diddledan_> zmoylan-pi: therefore we love MS :-p
<zmoylan-pi> over THEIR dead body :-P
 * diddledan_ splits some nets
 * zmoylan-pi nets somes spills
<ujjain-> what are those like candles called that smell?
<ujjain-> not candles
<ujjain-> ah incense
<diddledan_> foggy outside
<diddledan_> glad I don't have to walk home today
<ali1234> i wish websites like facebook and linked-in had a thing that would tell me why they think i know a person they are suggesting
<diddledan_> I think oftentimes they just link you to people who are connected to people you're connected to - two degrees of separation
<diddledan_> and of course linkedin loves harvesting addressbooks
<diddledan_> that one person you replied to once on a mailing list. yeah linkedin thinks you want to be their business partner
<ali1234> i see people and the name is kind of familiar but i don't know why
<diddledan_> I wonder if you know me? :-p
<diddledan_> linkedin probably could find a way of linking us
<diddledan_> I heard nasa are going to release news of a major discovery on mars - they found an object floating in the water... rumours are it's a linkedin email
<diddledan_> (that's a joke, btw - there is no announcement that I'm aware of)
<ali1234> i see a bunch of people from here on there
<ali1234> no dans though
<diddledan_> yeah we're probably all on various mailing lists so you might have got email addresses from there into your addressbook which then got harvested
<diddledan_> I wonder if the twitter link-up on linkedin has any effect on recommendations, too
<ali1234> i'm not ever sure what that means :)
<ali1234> i don't use the twitters either
<diddledan_> I'm a twitter consumer, not a producer
<ali1234> i think some of the people it's showing me are people who i just looked at their profile once
<diddledan_> I just watch the feed occasionally
<Laney> "this person looked at your profile so now we are suggesting them to you"
<awilkins> Encryption : Tories don't know how it works :http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/terrorism-in-the-uk/11970391/Internet-firms-to-be-banned-from-offering-out-of-reach-communications-under-new-laws.html
<foobarry> ^Tories^Politicians and civil servants
<awilkins> Just MEH
<ali1234> the funny thing is that microsoft, apple, google etc can just ship us the same crap version of their software that they send to crypto-embargoed terrorist states
<zmoylan-pi> at this point is there any crypto secure software that hasn't been backdoored
<ali1234> almost all of it?
<mapps> csi cyber time;d
<davmor2> One, two princes kneel before you  That what I said now  Princes, princes who adore you !
<diddledan_> so that encryption thingy - are they saying that companies must retain full transcripts of communications to correlate against an encrypted version when asked to provide the unencrypted?
<diddledan_> they need to MitM all web browsing, too?!
<zmoylan-pi> it been the uk... both
<zmoylan-pi> just to be sure
<zmoylan-pi> but there's no real change there. sinn fein used to have a site were you could bid for british spy gear they kept finding everywhere...
#ubuntu-uk 2015-11-03
<daftykins> windows 7 will no longer be allowed to be sold on PCs as of October 31st 2016
<mapps> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yszTYz_YznE
<mapps> :
<mapps> D
<mapps> there's eng subs also
<MooDoo> morning all
<knightwise> hey everyone
<mapps> hey knightwise
<knightwise> hey mapps, how are you :)
<mapps> not bad pal
<mapps> got internet again finally!
<mapps> had it for a week then it died;9
<knightwise> you fell off the broadband planet ?
<mapps> yea:P
<mapps> now im back in the game
<mapps> my tv uses my internet.i get sky/uk chans/beIN:D
<mapps> like Sergei Lahov said " if it looks like a terrorist, if it walks like a terrorist , if it soeaks like a terorist -- it's a terrosit"
<czajkowski> Aloha
<MooDoo> howdy
<mapps> so many spies
<mapps> people ask of my facebook and twitter
<mapps> but its wothless to most - i speak russian on facebook and twitter is 50/50
<mapps> no use for them at all:D
<ali1234> I'm going to buy a USB 3.1 card. should I buy one with type A ports or type C ports?
<SuperMatt> well nothing uses type c yet, but you may need it in the future
<ali1234> but i can just use an adapter right?
<SuperMatt> I have no idea
<ali1234> by the time type C stuff is common i will probably have a new computer with type C ports
<SuperMatt> I remember that it took an age just for usb to take off, so give it about 5 years, and then you'll need something with a type c connector
<SuperMatt> (please bear in mind that I could be very very wrong)
<davmor2> Morning all
<MooDoo> howdy davmor2
 * zmoylan-pi remembers all the usb ports on 486 systems for years before win95b staggered along and started using them... ;-)
<ali1234> USB 1.0...
<zmoylan-pi> of course by then i had a super cheap pc so i needed to find a pci card to add usb ports to my amd k6-2 system...
<zmoylan-pi> but when my boss spent a fortune on a 128mb usb drive it became the most used bit of hardware in the office overnight
<davmor2> and this is the monstrosity of a song stuck in my head this morning https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6M6samPEMpM
<SuperMatt> 128M? I couldn't even fit my po^H^H photos on there
<zmoylan-pi> even if i had to install drivers for every pc in the office to use it from a zip drive/cd
<zmoylan-pi> last week i picked up a 64gb for â¬25
<davmor2> SuperMatt: You have photos of pooh, what about tigger and piglet?
<zmoylan-pi> impulse purchase at newsagents...
<zmoylan-pi> don't be silly, he's not interested in silly antics of tigger and piglet
<SuperMatt> you don't know me!
 * zmoylan-pi would have put you down as an eeyore fan... :-)
<SuperMatt> is it because I'm so depressed?
<zmoylan-pi> who doesn't like a good donkey?
<SuperMatt> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oholah_and_Oholibah
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Tuesday, and happy Sandwich Day! ð
<davmor2> JamesTait: I present you with https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XfR9iY5y94s
<davmor2> the worlds worst sandwich I doubt even popey would eat one
<JamesTait> Vegemite!
<popey> Ooh! Good idea. Marmite for breakfast
<zmoylan-pi> beetroot sandwiches ::spits::
<davmor2> popey: Vegemite is like Marmite evil twin
<popey> meh
<SuperMatt> http://devopsreactions.tumblr.com/post/132464560327/sneaking-a-bottle-of-water-into-the-datacenter
<davmor2> popey: it's even worse when you don't like Marmite trust me
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<JamesTait> davmor2, how can yo not like Marmite? ð
<davmor2> JamesTait: Well it starts with having tastebuds
<zmoylan-pi> choosing not to eat something that was designed to use up the waste from another industrial process...
<JamesTait> So, you don't like crunchy bites either?
<zmoylan-pi> if i want crunchy i'll chuck a few rashers on my sandwich like god didn't intend :-)
<MooDoo> :)
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: if god didn't intend it he wouldn't of made pigs from bacon ;)
<foobarry> marmite is just matured earwax
<mapps> i need someone to block betfair
<mapps> make me a script i can install
 * mapps is an addict
<zmoylan-pi> add it to block list on your router?
<mapps> but i can bypas it
<mapps> i know i have a problem that why i ask
<mapps> i wont be posting on instagram or facebuuk
<mapps> im struggling
<MooDoo> you're technical, no matter what we suggest, you'll know how to bypass it
<zmoylan-pi> ^this
<mapps> true
<mapps> what ca i do
<zmoylan-pi> gamblers anonymous?
<mapps> never
<mapps> im a loser sure - i just need some help
<zmoylan-pi> isn't it better to talk with people who have dealt with the same problem?
<mapps> basically
<mapps> hsbc an barclays told me i cant get anymore credit
<zmoylan-pi> there are councillors who could help 1 on 1 but more expensive
<mapps> and ive been gambling it all away
<davmor2> mapps: you just need a script that plays this every time you go to the site https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YgSPaXgAdzE
<mapps> i owe 27.5k to mbna
<mapps> and 15k to hsbc
<mapps> every month
<mapps> i hope for a good month..and lose it all
<zmoylan-pi> you know this to be true, that gambling got you into this hole and it is not going to get you out
<mapps> i had Â£1900 on chelea to get me out of thi
<mapps> and it didnt
<MooDoo> Citizens advice bureua, that's all I can advise really
<zmoylan-pi> ^this
<davmor2> mapps: serious you need to get help
<mapps> i know
<zmoylan-pi> they are there to help.  looking for help here is a sign you want to change but you need to talk to people who can offer more than ideas and moral support
<mapps> i cant cope much more with repayments
<davmor2> mapps: no you don't need to shrug it off with I know, you need to go get help!
<mapps> i have to pay about 2500 a month on debts
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<mapps> hey bigcalm
<zmoylan-pi> i was paying about â¬500 a month around 2000, could barely make those payment. took a few years to dig myself out of debt
<bigcalm> o/
<mapps> yea i can pay just
<zmoylan-pi> you just have to try and add a few extra bob every 2nd month and after a few months you'll see the monthly payments start to decrease till every month you have a little more.  of course you have to stop the outgoings
<mapps> im not a stupid guy -- it just  went all wrong
<zmoylan-pi> people who are addicts are not fools, they're just vulnerable to bad ideas they know are bad
<mapps> but i have them all?
<mapps> i smoke..i drin..i gamble
<zmoylan-pi> âThe mind commands the body and is instantly obeyed. The mind commands itself and meets resistance.â
<mapps> i need uni again
<mapps> at uni i was less bad
<zmoylan-pi> you need to go and live on an island were there's no drink, tobacco or gambling.  but that's not an option.  you have to be that island
<mapps> yea
<zmoylan-pi> the only one who can stop you is you
<mapps> agreed
<foobarry> and also accept that ulmtimately you lose with galmbling
 * bashrc wonders if he accidentally subscribed to #philosophy
<foobarry> cut losses and run away
<zmoylan-pi> but always remember callahans law, 'shared pain lessens, shared joy increases, thus we refute entropy'
<foobarry> my local screen session is laggy :(
<mapps> irritating mbna gave me a limit of Â£25k what happened
<mapps> i blew most of it
<zmoylan-pi> be happy they didn't give you a bigger limit
<mapps> i used to be so happy before
<foobarry> do gamblers ever quit by themselves?
<foobarry> most need external help i expect
<mapps> its this damn gamblin
<zmoylan-pi> probably, but they would be the rareity
<mapps> im lucky
<mapps> ina way
<zmoylan-pi> not at the moment you're not
<mapps> my dad transferred my rent money
<zmoylan-pi> dependng on luck is a sure way to failure as it will run out
<mapps> to his account
<mapps> because again
<mapps> my rents Â£1200
<mapps> i just manage t
<zmoylan-pi> can you find somewhere cheaper to live?
 * mapps slaps NET||abu- around a bit with a large trout
<mapps> sorry]
<mapps> in spain yea
<zmoylan-pi> even if you switched to e-cigs rather than smoking it would save a bundle
<mapps> but i dont want to
<zmoylan-pi> yes you do, you complained about it earlier
<mapps> i have a drink problem too though
<zmoylan-pi> you might see it as the lesser of drinking and gambling but you still mentioned it
<Laney> is it possible to buy radiator valves (or something) which Nest can use to only heat the room I'm in?
<mapps> so i wanna be close to work]
<Laney> irritating heating the whole house when I'm only in one room all day
<zmoylan-pi> i just wear heavier jumpers laney :-)
<mapps> it all went downhilll 12 years ago
<zmoylan-pi> and only you can turn it around mapps
<mapps> i have no excuse now its me
<mapps> yea
<zmoylan-pi> but you CAN get better
<ali1234> hey laney
<ali1234> were your lights flickering this morning?
<Laney> hi ali1234
<Laney> creepy question...
<mapps> unlikely innit:)
<Laney> don't think so
<mapps> il bloody sort this out and then drop dead zmoylan-pi
<zmoylan-pi> mapps: only unlikely if you do nothing
<ali1234> mine were. about 7:30 to 8:00
<zmoylan-pi> maybe but then you won't owe a penny to nobody mapps and that feels wonderful, trust me on that
<ali1234> must just be the substation
<ali1234> or my fuse box
<mapps> i hope so zmoylan-p
<mapps> but
 * zmoylan-pi remembers going to post office to pay last credit bill last bit of dosh i owed... :-)
<mapps> it wont hapen for m
<mapps> m
<davmor2> ali1234: pfff Laney is still in bed coding now you don't think he is up at that ungodly hour do you ;)
<mapps> me damn
<zmoylan-pi> it can and will if you set your mind to it mapps
<mapps> never ill sadly
<zmoylan-pi> only if you refuse to let yourself from helping yourself mapps
<mapps> ive been here 14 months noones come to see me
<zmoylan-pi> contact gamblers anonymous, what's the worst that could happen?
<zmoylan-pi> an hour or two away from temptation?
<zmoylan-pi> well loneliness is the cause of many problems
<mapps> i just have no friends or family sadly
<zmoylan-pi> try ga, you might make friends there
<zmoylan-pi> friends who are in the same boat you are
<mapps> i try and do my spanish learning
<mapps> but i get bored:(
<zmoylan-pi> get out, meet people, the more time you are out of the house the less time you have to go online and gamble
<zmoylan-pi> 1) today find were the gambling addict resources near you are, 2) tomorrow is about working up the courage to go.  but today concentrate on (1)
<zmoylan-pi> little steps
<mapps> i agree
<mapps> i assume its little little in gib
<zmoylan-pi> military base nearby, i'd suspect not
<mapps> man i suck..my spanish is bad.my russians bad...all i do is hold a job down
<zmoylan-pi> that's a start
<zmoylan-pi> now build on it
<mapps> :D
<zmoylan-pi> of course the first castle might fall over and catch fire in the swamp but keep going :-)
<mapps> lol
<zmoylan-pi> right time for me to head to library to try and get distraction free zone to learn python... o/
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: Oh that's easy, it's hiss, hiss, hiss, hiiiiissssss, hiss, hiss, hissssssssssssss
<zmoylan-pi> i thought that was asp for 'bite you where?!'
<Gary> Hey, how is everyone!
<mapps> hi friend
<Gary> how have things been in #ubuntu-uk land?
<mapps> not bad
<mapps> :D
<MooDoo> :)
<foobarry> does firefox not restore previous session by default any more?
<foobarry> ah, foudn it
<diddledan_> morning
<MooDoo> morning
<Azelphur> omg...I just found an amazing button on my new monitors
<Azelphur> they support 4xPBP 2k...I could emulate 16 2k monitors o.O
<popey> blimey
<Azelphur> I think the 2k is downscaled to 1080 though, so it's a little pixelated
<Azelphur> but yea, if I had a mountain of GPUs and used DP + 3x HDMI, I could have 16 "monitors"
<Azelphur> this would kick ass with a synergy setup and multiple machines though
<diddledan_> isn't 1920x1080 2k anyway?
<Azelphur> diddledan_: people generally refer to 1440p as 2k, but yea I can see your point
<Azelphur> Hmm, I am running backups on my machine, I have the program doing the backups set to nice -n 19 ionice -c3, yet the whole machine continually goes really slow, like 15+ seconds to load a terminal sometimes. Load average is like >9, any ideas?
<daftykins> i spotted a Â£150 IPS HannsG 2560x1440 today for someone, could be neat if they read their email... :>
<daftykins> oh 27" too
<lopta> Azelphur: What are you using to backup your machine? What software and backup medium?
<Azelphur> lopta: attic
<Azelphur> and a local server
<lopta> Azelphur: Over gigabit Ethernet?
<Azelphur> 100
<daftykins> eww
<lopta> I'm not familiar with Attic.
<daftykins> Azelphur: nice 8 port gigabit switch on amazon black friday for Â£14 today :P
<daftykins> Netgear one
<Azelphur> daftykins: black friday? wat that's not till later this month
<daftykins> actually it's weeks long now
<daftykins> http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00AWM7PKO
<Azelphur> daftykins: stuck it on my purse wishlist, I get it for Â£7 :P
<daftykins> ^_^ what on earth is a purse wishlist o0
<Azelphur> daftykins: basically I set up a wishlist on Amazon, I list it on purse and say "I'll pay you X BTC if you buy this stuff for me"
<Azelphur> X BTC is generally between 50-80% of the value of the items
<daftykins> oh ok
<daftykins> you and your funny money ;D
<Azelphur> :)
<Azelphur> my funny money is going nuts atm
<daftykins> again?
<daftykins> what's especially funny about me saying that is normally it's Guernsey bank notes getting laughed at
<Azelphur> yup, gone up almost $100 in the past few days
<daftykins> is that a standard original or some kind of sub-named variant once more?
<Azelphur> wat
<daftykins> all the *coin names they spun off
<Azelphur> you mean is purse an altcoin? no it's a service that uses Bitcoin
<Azelphur> I don't really buy into the whole altcoin thing
<daftykins> nah the current value gaining coin type you're referring to
<Azelphur> nope, that's plain old Bitcoin
<daftykins> ah ok :>
<Azelphur> http://bitcoincharts.com/charts/bitstampUSD#rg10ztgTzm1g10zm2g25 it's a good day to be holding Bitcoin :P
<awilkins> Wowzer
<awilkins> I was going to buy some last week
<ali1234> did it break 400 yet?
<foobarry> sell now!
<ali1234> i already sold today
<Azelphur> ali1234: my boss is getting screwed by this it's kinda funny, he didn't pay me on time yet still owes me BTC @ $254
<Azelphur> last time I calculated it was like $1300 this is gonna cost him
<daftykins> :D
<foobarry> what job do u do Azelphur
<Azelphur> foobarry: I'm a developer
<diddledan_> people are moaning about linus again: http://news.softpedia.com/news/linus-torvalds-attacks-the-work-of-kernel-developer-with-hash-language-again-495636.shtml
<bigcalm> Is he turning into RMS? Required but ignored
<jpds> diddledan_: People clearly don't know enough about writing good code
<daftykins> i see folk wanting to follow the UOS from the comfort of their fine FOSS distro are coming up against requiring the flash player?
<daftykins> is the irony there wasted on anyone? :D
<bashrc> I think that's the problem of all dictatorships. Once a project gets big I think who is doing the maintaining should be subject to vote
<zmoylan-pi> he produces code AND administers a huge important software project.  he comes from a culture were they use all the words
<bashrc> by his own admission, I don't think linus writes kernel code anymore
<daftykins> yeah i read he doesn't write
<zmoylan-pi> if he's personally reviewing the code patches submitted then he is producing code as he judges it
<bashrc> reviewing patches != writing code
<zmoylan-pi> it is to my mind
<zmoylan-pi> he is adding something
<bashrc> he's acting as an editor
<zmoylan-pi> it's like the -2000 lines of code... http://www.folklore.org/StoryView.py?story=Negative_2000_Lines_Of_Code.txt&sub=HN0
<bashrc> as a developer and reviewer myself I can say it's much easier to criticise code in review than to write it
<zmoylan-pi> true but i still would let him have his rant if he wishes
<bashrc> submitting even a one line patch can sometimes take a lot of research
<zmoylan-pi> some of the hardest edits i have done to code has resulted in 1 day = 1 line of code
<daftykins> ugh a client wants to drive 2 x 2560x1440 res screens from a laptop and wants me to find one with a budget of Â£300-400
<daftykins> what a joke!
<zmoylan-pi> some fresnel a4 sized lens stuck to a chromebook... :-)
<daftykins> he's honestly dreaming
<zmoylan-pi> or inserting the earbuds too deep... :-)
<popey> I know someone who used to use a fresnel lens while playing flight sims
<mapp> sheesh
<zmoylan-pi> they used to sell them in 60s to make your tv bigger
<mapp> this traslating is tough
<daftykins> well well, displayport multistream hubs seem to be the trick - http://www.amazon.co.uk/StarTech-DisplayPort-Multi-Stream-Transport/dp/B00XXPYGPO/
<diddledan_> o_O
<daftykins> beats buying displays with the two sockets built in
<daftykins> Azelphur: you haven't got an 'xrandr' kicking around for your new toys have you? :)
<zmoylan-pi> that pesky word unlimited strikes again... http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2015/11/microsoft-drops-unlimited-onedrive-storage-after-people-use-it-for-unlimited-storage/
<diddledan_> aye
<diddledan_> I saw that a little while ago
<diddledan_> they've also made apple icloud a cheaper option for storage on windows than microsoft's own offering
<zmoylan-pi> every time that happens they should administer beatings to the marketing department to make it not happen again... :-P
<diddledan_> oldie to newbie: "don't ever end up like fred".. newbie: "why what happened to fred?" oldie: "he used the word 'unlimited'. he was seen going into the ceo's office and he never came out..."
<Azelphur> daftykins: http://paste.ubuntu.com/13093671/
<daftykins> ty sir
<diddledan_> I wonder what OS apple use in their datacentres?
<diddledan_> would be silly to use OS X because that's not a server OS and windows is made by a rival so they'd not want to use that and linux is not OS X so they won't want to use that
<diddledan_> maybe they'll use the bsd userland on top of mach but not the full os x
<diddledan_> i.e. no gfx
<diddledan_> no desktop etc.
<daftykins> a mate who works for them in London told me most of their gear used to be run from mac minis =|
<daftykins> cringe++
<marshmn> hi all; I just upgraded from 15.04 -> 15.10, but it's no longer booting into graphical environment :(
<diddledan_> daftykins: http://www.macminicolo.net/
<daftykins> marshmn: tried appending 'nomodeset' to kernel boot params?
<daftykins> your drivers might have been killed
<daftykins> (if you need any)
<marshmn> original install was ubuntugnome
<marshmn> daftykins: ok, will try
<marshmn> machine is Dell XPS 15 laptop
<marshmn> is the correct way to append that to hit 'e' at the grub menu?
<marshmn> and then add it to the bottom of the list in the editor it gives me?
<marshmn> then hit F10?
<diddledan_> if you do that you need to find the right line
<diddledan_> it'll start with "linux"
<marshmn> is there an easier way?
<daftykins> nope
<daftykins> it's a manual edit.
<daftykins> ah yeah that sounds like the one with the nvidia graphics
<marshmn> it has Nvidia and IntelHD
<marshmn> TBH, I thought I was only using the intel chipset
<daftykins> yeah optimus machine
<marshmn> so, add 'nomodeset' to the end of the linux line after hitting e?
<marshmn> and then just hit F10?
<daftykins> where it says 'quiet splash' , add it before or after
<daftykins> yep F10 or ctrl+x i think
<marshmn> ok, so I've done that - now I just get a blank screen
<marshmn> I get the ubuntu logo with animated dots first
<marshmn> then after a few seconds blank screen
<marshmn> before adding that, it was dumping me out to console mode with messages
<marshmn> but now just blank screen
<diddledan_> some may remember I moaned about a wonky 24inch monitor - turns out that some of the capacitors in the power supply were bulging so it may be just a case of replacing those to fix it - Dad's ordered some so we'll see.
<marshmn> if I take that back out, so that I can get back to the messages it gives on the console, it gets as far as "[OK] Reached target Basic System."
<marshmn> then the next line looks garbled:
<daftykins> marshmn: so you got a working TTY?
<daftykins> diddledan_: :D i like those fixes
<marshmn> "[OK] Started LSB: Tool to automatically collect and submit kernel crash signatures....ut down.....
<daftykins> my brother stubbornly ignored my advice on checking ebay for even a full straight up PSU swap
<marshmn> daftykins: I can get to a working TTY with Ctrl+F1
<marshmn> well, F2
<daftykins> ah ok, log in and do a "dpkg -l | grep nvidia"
<daftykins> see if any are installed at all
<marshmn> yes, there are a few things for that
<marshmn> such as nvidia-346
<daftykins> sudo apt-get purge nvidia*
<daftykins> then reboot
<daftykins> oh
<daftykins> check there's no /etc/X11/xorg.conf before reboot too
<marshmn> there is xorg.conf.0
<marshmn> should I leave that or remove?
<daftykins> nah that one is ok
<daftykins> as long as /etc/X11/xorg.conf itself doesn't exist, that should be set - so reboot now
<marshmn> ok, rebooting
<marshmn> hard to work in console mode on a 4k screen :/
<marshmn> still same on reboot
<marshmn> same console output as I wrote above
<marshmn> oh, no, actually
<marshmn> it seemed to get beyond target "System Initialization"
<marshmn> is that before or after "Basic System"?
<marshmn> last message before garbled line is now "[OK] Listening on CUPS Scheduler"
<daftykins> hmm
<daftykins> and nothing from all ctrl+alt+Fx combos? F1 through F12 that is
<marshmn> I see normal TTY login prompts on F1 through to F6
<marshmn> on F7 I just see the console output
<marshmn> nothing else
<daftykins> does that thing have wired LAN?
<diddledan_> Xorg.log?
<daftykins> or a USB adapter capable of
<daftykins> yeah Xorg log or lightdm troubleshooting would be next i'd think
<daftykins> if you can get it online i'd "pastebinit /var/log/Xorg.0.log"
<marshmn> I have a USB network adapter if need be
<daftykins> yeah that should work
<marshmn> actually, wifi still appears to work
<marshmn> http://paste.ubuntu.com/13094447/
<daftykins> weird, assuming that log is dated with a sensible timestamp to be right now, that seems to have come up just fine
<marshmn> how can I tell whether I'm using gdm or lightdm?
<marshmn> and is it worth me trying the other, whichever it is?
<daftykins> hmm i forget the file that suggests it, no idea what gnome uses
<daftykins> you could check for running services and see which one is up
<marshmn> gdm is running
<marshmn> lightdm is not
<daftykins> probably depends now how much time you want to put in, could keep digging into logs or just nuke it with a clean 15.10 and restore your /home from backup if it's not on a separate partition
<marshmn> is that likely to work?
<daftykins> if a 15.10 live session works yeah, it's probably just the upgrade that's gone nuts
<marshmn> :/
<daftykins> might not hurt to ensure it fully completed with a "sudo apt update && sudo apt dist-upgrade"
<marshmn> I guess I'll have to download that and try it
<marshmn> how can I try lightdm?
<marshmn> (just in case)
<daftykins> i don't think that'd be a worthy approach
<marshmn> ok
<daftykins> now nouveau is back in use instead of nvidia proprietary, nomodeset might be of more use again too
<marshmn> so maybe try that again? ok
<marshmn> nope, no dice
<marshmn> just blank screen with that again
<marshmn> I didn't really want to have to start from scratch since I'd gotten everything set up nicely how I want it :/
<marshmn> but if that's what I have to do then I guess I have no choice
<diddledan_> most of the config will be in your home folder so if you retain that you should only have to reinstall any extra applications
<daftykins> ^
<daftykins> it could be a 15.10 kernel + optimus quirk
<daftykins> my experience level definitely isn't high enough to troubleshoot properly
 * daftykins pats Windows and ducks
<diddledan_> windows ftw?
<daftykins> well, i think all OSs suck equally still :D
<marshmn> I didn't really care too much about getting 15.10 - I only upgraded because it prompted me to :/
<marshmn> wish I'd not bothered...
<marshmn> now I've just made myself a world of pain
<daftykins> i shall avoid speaking of backups so i don't get a sharp jab to the side :>
<marshmn> I have backups, that's not an issue
<marshmn> but still, I now need to download 15.10 image
 * diddledan_ pokes daftykins with a pokey thing
<diddledan_> pokey poke poke
<marshmn> next issue is that I don't have a USB stick to hand to put it on
<marshmn> so it might be 24 hours before I get it all sorted
<daftykins> yeah if i were upgrading and had the time i'd probably clonezilla disk image a machine prior :)
<daftykins> then it'd just be a case of throwing it back on and it'd be like travelling back in time
<marshmn> thanks for your help anyway
<daftykins> np :)
<marshmn> I'll just sulk & play some Go for now and deal with it later :)
<marshmn> daftykins: switching to lightdm seems to have fixed it :)
<daftykins> bit weird o0
<daftykins> you may want the nvidia driver back on ultimately too
<marshmn> yea
<daftykins> nvidia-352 being the newest in 15.10 repos
<daftykins> i think
<foobarry> xubuntu users based in EU: https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/3r9f52/looking_for_xubuntu_users_for_academic_research/
<foobarry> get paid to xubuntu/xfce
<ali1234> sidi is a cool guy
<ali1234> but you have to use chromium
<foobarry> know anyone who might be interested?
<foobarry> can't remember the xfce users in here
<ali1234> only me
<ali1234> but... i don't want to use chromium
<awilkins> There's a -355 version of the nvidia driver in a PPA
<foobarry> marshmn had the black screen lightdm problem?
<foobarry> i had that today and fixed it, but might be different scenario
<marshmn> I had an issue when using gdm - on upgrade to 15.10 with gdm it was failing to switch into graphical mode
<marshmn> switching from gdm to lightdm seems to have resolved that
<foobarry> ah ok. there were lots of words, didn't read them all
<foobarry> doing a market research survey that asks about interesting tech startups - anyone think of any new small ones?
<ali1234> there's so many that i can't think of one
<foobarry> :)
<daftykins> just murdered my first mince pie of the season :D
<diddledan_> :-o
<diddledan_> far too early!
<diddledan_> next thing you'll be eating xmas pud
 * daftykins drops a spoon
 * diddledan_ spoons
<ali1234> wow, a patch i sent to AOSP got pulled after 2 years :)
<ali1234> i totally forgot about it
#ubuntu-uk 2015-11-04
<ahayzen> popey, omg those windows support calls are hilarious, how did you record them ?
<popey> ahayzen, it's my house phone held up against the usual mic I use.
<ahayzen> haha
<daftykins> hmm those are getting common!
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<MooDoo> morning
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo
<davmor2> Morning all
<MooDoo> morning davmor2
<bashrc> morning
<foobarry> the one from willcooke was brilliant
<foobarry> lenny the precorded old man
<willcooke> foobarry, I've tweaked the sounds a little:  https://soundcloud.com/willcooke/lenny-improved
<foobarry> anybody else heard of a nouveau bug where mouse pointer flickers in certain parts of the UI
<foobarry> i have 1 screen onboard and 1 screen nvidia
<foobarry> the nvidia running nouveau only has this issue
<foobarry> bug 1278223
<lubotu3> bug 1278223 in xorg (Ubuntu) "Mouse Flickering after adding 3rd Monitor" [High,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1278223
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Wednesday, and happy Stress Awareness Day! ð
<zmoylan-pi> dammit, i had just made myself forget the stress... thanks very much... :-P
<davmor2> JamesTait: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jne9t8sHpUc I think this song covers most stressful situations nicely :)
<JamesTait> You're welcome? ð
<davmor2> Ironically the song isn't Ironic
<davmor2> JamesTait: Of course zmoylan-pi will now stress over the fact that he can't get it out of his head, but meh :)(
<zmoylan-pi> literally no longer means literally...
<zmoylan-pi> and they removed the word gullible from the dictionary
<JamesTait> davmor2, but as long as he's aware that he's stressed, that's good, right?
<davmor2> JamesTait: right that's why I made him aware first
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MKUQFtR6sPM
<ali1234> you mean literally literally doesn't mean literally?
<zmoylan-pi> literally literally means figuratively too... http://www.salon.com/2013/08/22/according_to_the_dictionary_literally_now_also_means_figuratively_newscred/
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: it's all because people are muppets, good is meh, bad is good, literally is figurative and and wicked is awesome and awesome is meant to be terrifying so the world language is all to pot
<zmoylan-pi> tickety boo, just as long as don't go beyond the pale
<popey> language evolves, get over it :)
<MooDoo> I wish people wood talk proper like what I does.
<JamesTait> Is anyone else seeing UI breakage in Qt4 apps under Vivid?
<foobarry> meh...proprietary nvidia drive doesn't work at all when using 1 onboard card and 1 external
<zmoylan-pi> bananas acquired for sandwiches for lunch...
<popey> ooh, good idea
<popey> I feel a peanut butter and banana sarnie coming on
 * Laney wants nutella
<zmoylan-pi> or i could make crisp sandwiches... king cheese and onion crisps...
 * bigcalm wants a gin & tonic
<zmoylan-pi> i did see that someone is selling gin and tonic crisps...
<davmor2> bigcalm: won't that make the bread soggy?
<bigcalm> Sod food, I want a drink
<zmoylan-pi> after finishing a gin and tonic sandwich bigcalm won't care
<popey> After OggCamp I don't think I need any more booze for a while
<zmoylan-pi> that's just your liver speaking...
<zmoylan-pi> and maybe your wallet...
<davmor2> popey: you mean it might take a while for there to be too much blood in your alcohol stream again ;)
<bigcalm> I spent an amazing amount of money on the Friday evening
<bigcalm> Good food and expensive drinks
<zmoylan-pi> what you need to do is have a fake receipt made up for a tattoo parlour and put it in drunkest persons pocket... :-)
<diddledan> morning
<Myrtti> this might interest someone
<Myrtti> Kensington SD3500v USB 3.0 Universal Docking Station with Dual Video for Windows 8.1, 8, 7, XP (HDMI, DVI,VGA to 2048x1152, GB ethernet, 4 x USB 2.0, 2 x USB 3.0) https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B009JZHEVU/ref=cm_sw_r_other_awd_EoHowbMKMYY70
<diplo> Best way of seeing how many users are on multiple servers on a VM? python + fabric ?
<diddledan> diplo, for a single machine the `who` command should tell you who's logged-in?
<bigcalm> As will `w` but with slightly different information
<bigcalm> And then there is `last` to see who has recently been on
<diplo> So basically we host a load of customers on a VM, 6-7 centos boxes, we just want to check how many users are on each box before rebooting without logging into each box
<diddledan> a vm with multiple boxes? eh?
<bigcalm> Sounds like you need a centralised remote management tool
<diplo> :P
<diplo> Yes you know what I meant
<diplo> Fabric works fine, just wanted a quick and simple check
<diplo> 4 lines of code, simples
<Laney> damn
<Laney> accidentally opened the door to someone selling
<diddledan> oops
<diddledan> I hate opening my door
<Laney> was expecting someone
<Laney> otherwise I would have been more cautious
<awilkins> Is there a way to temporarily register a hostname to a particular IP address without editing /etc/hosts ?
<awilkins> Like, I know ubuntu runs dnsmasq for name cacheing, is there a way to signal it to assign a name to an IP
<ali1234> yeah, edit /etc/hosts
<awilkins> That's what I did :-/
<awilkins> Thinking on it, there are probably pretty good reasons for that
<ali1234> you can also put config files in /etc/dnsmasq.d and then restart it
<ali1234> but that is not very useful for hosts functionality
<awilkins> Just a PITA to remove it after
<awilkins> It's for resolving VMs on a bridged adapter
<diddledan> if it's a bridged adapter you might get away with using avahi or by getting your router to save dhcp hostnames into it's resolver
<awilkins> My router at home takes note of their name and serves the address
<awilkins> I'm in a wifi lounge in Manchester though
<diddledan> aah
<awilkins> Well, pshaw
<awilkins> It's a minor inconvenience
<diddledan> why do my windows pcs not see any samba servers and vice versa?
<ali1234> you can set up a DNS server for a specific domain
<ali1234> add it to dnsmasq config
<ali1234> and then reconfigure it however you like
<diddledan> it seems that I have some kind of split brain - half my network are able to see each other and the other half are able to see each other but it seems that neither half can see the other half
<diddledan> yes, ping works
<diddledan> and yes, accessing samba from a windows via ip address also works - it's just the name resolution that seems wonky
<diddledan> ok that's interesting. seems pings to the broadcast address are only getting 4 distinct replies (there should be more systems than that)
<awilkins> Murdoch buys National Geographic. Murdoch fires 180 award winning journalists.
<awilkins> *surprise*
<diddledan> awesome bug: https://youtu.be/avwDj3KRuLc?t=1636
<diddledan> evening
<mapps> evening diddledan
<mapps> why do people still go to egypt..theres terror attacks almost yearly
<mapps> same as turkey..id never go
<zmoylan-pi> ireland did very well during years of terrorism for tourists
<popey> foobarry, http://liliputing.com/2015/11/android-6-0-comes-to-the-hp-touchpad-unofficially.html
<daftykins> heh, i've got one of those
<mapps> crim minds is so good:D
<daftykins> any of you folks dealt with any CRMs before and know any to avoid like the plague / prefer ?
<daftykins> gotta attend a meeting next Monday where someone will be proposing one, i'll be expecting them to be pushing an MS SQL server abortion and will hope to steer them away from it
<mapps> heh nah never ;]
<mapps> lol at those idiots protesting for free tuition
<daftykins> :P
<mapps> how do these fools think things work
<mapps> everything for free..so where owuld money come from
<daftykins> where in the world is that happening?
<mapps> london
<mapps> these people really are fools..if noone pays where would money for equipment come from ,
<zmoylan-pi> in ireland companies that want first dibs at trained staff donate equipment
<mapps> its the same idiots that think housing should be free for all
#ubuntu-uk 2015-11-05
<daftykins> hmm CRMs seem like what folk bring into businesses because they think it'll help, but really it's just a massive cash earning exercise for someone else
<diddledan> hey Cortana, google for Siri on Bing
<mapps> siri sucks
<mapps> i never used it really
<diddledan> her*
<diddledan> Siri is not an "it"
<diddledan> she's a foxy laday
<mapps> heh
<daftykins> that's just siri... er i mean silly
<diddledan> dear lord this is purest evil: http://twitchintheshell.com/
<daftykins> yeah i heard some gentoo folk tried to take over
<mapps> hm
<daftykins> i see the twitch feed is as stable as an Arch update ;D
<mapps> its done now isnt it
<mapps> the stream was relentless lol nonstop commands
<daftykins> nope that's just booting the live installer ;)
<mapps> oh
<mapps> so whats it doing now
<daftykins> dunno, closed it already - total waste of time :)
<daftykins> i got sent three invites for the oneplus 2 phone, if anyone wants one
<diddledan> the 3?
<diddledan> three invites for the 3?
<daftykins> very funny
<diddledan> I don't want one :-p
<diddledan> I'm hungry
<mapps> ;]
<mapps> hm might watch 2nd maze runner
<daftykins> https://oneplus.net/2 <-- anyway 3 invites for that if anyone is interested
 * diddledan eats cake
<diddledan> so it looks like vim is getting forked? https://github.com/neovim/neovim
<mapps> hmm
<mapps> whos up
<mapps> noone
<mapps> ]
<mapps> :D
<daftykins> \o
<daftykins> 97% on the intro to Linux course on edx.org XD
<mapps> aha cool
<mapps> i did it before, unless it changed?
<daftykins> well it did become version 2 at the start of 2015 i think
<daftykins> i hadn't been back since i was in hospital.
<daftykins> i didn't even finish the content XD just decided to give it a go now and only got one question wrong
<mapps> heh
<mapps> :D
<mapps> im watching walking dead
<mapps> episode of the league yay
<daftykins> you and your TV
<mapps> criminal minds and the league for me this morning
<mapps> catching up on walking dead..not watched any of new season
<mapps> also need to watch ...need aka want to , watch maze runner 2
<mapps> you not watch much?
<daftykins> i've got a few on the go at the moment but i'm at the point where i don't even rush to check i'm up to date
<daftykins> Fargo season 2 :)
<mapps> ahhh yea im an ep behind
<mapps> need to watch e3..u seen?
<mapps> i take it you watched s1 fargo
<daftykins> i think i spotted 4 on my server earlier
<daftykins> yeah
<mapps> ;]
<mapps> cut my toe ;/ caught it on side of cooker
<mapps> the legue's so funny
<daftykins> ouch!
<daftykins> 5am zmoylan-1i ;)
<mapps> 5am what
<mapps> ?
<daftykins> huh?
<daftykins> had some disks to unplug :> six to be precise!
<mapps> <daftykins> ouch!
<mapps> <daftykins> 5am zmoylan-1i ;)
<mapps> what did that mean heh
<daftykins> he reboots @ 5
<mapps> oh
<mapps> wonder why always 5
<daftykins> router woes i think :>
<mapps> ah
<daftykins> under 10 pages left of my book \o/
<daftykins> https://danieldeluxe.bandcamp.com/track/darkness :D
<mapps> what book
<daftykins> Lee Child - Echo Burning ; one of the 'Jack Reacher' series
<daftykins> #5 of 20 as it goes, and i've got 19 of 'em on a shelf now :D
<mapps> jack reacher series?
<daftykins> yep
<daftykins> alrighty, book done - sleep time
<daftykins> laters ^_^
<mapps> cya:)
<mapps> how many more seasons will they do for the walking dead..surely cant be many more
<daftykins> hmm decided to stay up a bit and tinker
<daftykins> sun coming up already after all ;D
<mapps> hah what you doing:D
<daftykins> well i booted this spare PC i have that has xubuntu+win10 on it, few mins later i've got my windows drive mounted with the local backup of music... now playing with a music proggie in xubuntu
<mapps> cool:D not tried 10
<mapps> you like?
<daftykins> http://i.imgur.com/VkYWU2X.jpg
<daftykins> quite pretty that gmusicbrowser
<daftykins> yeah i like 10, it's very aesthetically boring but it's faster and leaner than even win7 was
<mapps> whats min spec required
<mapps> i saw some game said 12gig ram LOL
<daftykins> sounds like the re-release of Batman Arkham Knight :)
<mapps> ya
<daftykins> meh Windows sys reqs never make any sense, just runs nicer on what 7 would run on :)
<mapps> thAt was it lol
<daftykins> that game was ace on my xbox one :) glad i don't mess around trying to get such things going on PC though
<daftykins> used to enjoy it but gaming on PC is such a joke these days
<daftykins> having said that i'm tempted by treating myself to a completely new PC build :)
<mapps> i dont bother with pc games
<mapps> too much effort..new game..great my gfx card sucks ont play it etc
<daftykins> exactly
<daftykins> in fact if i did a new build, i'd use the PSU and card from this one... but it's ancient so it'd suck
<daftykins> er not this one, but mine :D
<daftykins> hey mapps you heard anything by Tove Lo? :)
<daftykins> music wise
<mapps> nope what is it
<daftykins> really damn catchy
<daftykins> little bit more poppy than i might usually go for, but mmm
<daftykins> hrmm, i have a couple of SSDs to try blanking
<daftykins> odd they won't work in this NAS
<daftykins> or i could shop for a new PC case :P
<mapps> ah will check it
<daftykins> holy crap LG G4 32GB smartphone Â£299.99 on ebuyer right now
<mapps> ?:)
<daftykins> http://www.ebuyer.com/store/Computer/cat/Smartphones,-Mobiles-&-Mobile-Broadband?q=lg+g4&no_rr
<daftykins> worky?
<mapps> ya
<mapps> is it a good price or?
<daftykins> yeah, my mum just upgraded to one
<daftykins> telco wants Â£500 retail
<daftykins> hmm Â£288 on ebay
<mapps> hm
<mapps> ridiculous how much phones cost really
<daftykins> yip, glad it's not a vice of mine
<daftykins> my brother is always buying the very latest Apple, such a mug
<mapps> heh
<daftykins> this is what's making me hesitant about dropping Â£500 on a PC upgrade really, i'd still be doing the same things :)
<daftykins> i just know modern kit is now 4x faster than mine - plus it's giving some grief with age now
<mapps> heh
<mapps> yea
<daftykins> coffee shop's open now
<daftykins> might nip down in a tick :)
<daftykins> now that's my vice
<mapps> pff i hate going out so early
<daftykins> i quite like seeing the normal folk heading in to start :)
<mapps> i dont heh
<mapps> :)
<daftykins> then i go home and go to bed XD
<mapps> i cant ever get comfortable
<mapps> il fall asleep and wakeup an hr later
<mapps> ;/
<_Ridgewing> Moin Moin, Good morning \o/
<mapps> morning
<_Ridgewing> You at UOS ?
<mapps> whats that
<_Ridgewing> http://summit.ubuntu.com/
 * _Ridgewing opens a fresh bag of galaxy cookies that cost 5p from Tresco.
<mapps> nice
<mapps> bargain
<mapps> so what is it _Ridgewing
<mapps> online thing..a forum a webcast?
<_Ridgewing> kinda
<mapps> so if i registered what would i see..how do i participate
<_Ridgewing> It's a dev summit where you can log onto gogle hangout and participate in the community tacks etc .. e.g. This was yesterday: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uos-1511/meeting/22620/community-roundtable-ii/
<_Ridgewing> (just follow the links and participate on irc.
 * _Ridgewing puts his cookie monster badge on :)
<mapps> thanks
<mapps> those galaxy cookies are nice they sell them here in morrisons
<mapps> have you had the bounty ones?
<_Ridgewing> Yeah, originally cost Â£1.37 but I got five bags of four cookie (american big style-y)for 5p each . Yay \o/
<_Ridgewing> **cookies
<_Ridgewing> The bounty ones are like cocaine for me. Too much and I won't fit in my one-sie.
<daftykins> if you were a FOSS lover you'd be greeted by a requirement to install flash in order to watch
<daftykins> which is quite frankly laughable :)
<mapps> hahaha
<mapps> a one-sie?!
<_Ridgewing> shuttleworth says you have to take "risks", these days with things like pepper flash.
<daftykins> _Ridgewing: i doubt he said that at all :P
<_Ridgewing> mapps: There are suggies available, but not at the moment: http://www.hotukdeals.com/deals/jml-snuggie-blanket-10-instore-at-asda-646718
<mapps> heh
<_Ridgewing> **Snuggies
<_Ridgewing> daftykins: He did say you have to take risks in the keynote. want me to find it for ya ?
<daftykins> regarding flash specifically? :P
<_Ridgewing> No.
<daftykins> right, thought so
<_Ridgewing> k
<daftykins> but yeah being Canonical then requiring flash on your summit events, hilarious
<_Ridgewing> daftykins: I take it you don't 'hangout' much, then ?
 * _Ridgewing waves his little Manx Flag.
<daftykins> never used Hangouts no, resist it on my phone too - still on the standard SMS app in android land :P
<_Ridgewing> SMS .. is that texting ?
<mapps> yea
 * _Ridgewing wonders if ppl stil send Txts
<mapps> europeans say SMS more
<mapps> brits just say text
<_Ridgewing> Really ? That's so 2005
<mapps> ive seen hangouts on my phone too..never used
<_Ridgewing> At least use telegram
<mapps> people use snapchat..whatsapp kik telegram viber etc
<_Ridgewing> That's a good question: I know snapchat is available for Linux (it has an API) - what do-we need to do to get it on Touch ?
 * _Ridgewing wipes the cookie crumbs away from keyboard.
<mapps> =]
<mapps> no clue
<mapps> never used it
<daftykins> i have to use SMS for some holdouts, yeah
<daftykins> typically on whatsapp
<daftykins> heard that telegram name lurking around, no idea what benefits it has though
<mapps> encrypted
<mapps> i believe
<daftykins> ah so for the tinfoil hat crowd, great ;)
<mapps> but for most peoples convos its irrelevant
<_Ridgewing> I'm sure I wouldn't have an eHarmony girlfriend if it wasn't for Snap chat available on Linux. She specifically stated she was a snapchat addict. [Fair enough]
<daftykins> see, i heard that one was for school kids sexting each other originally ;)
<daftykins> no point over whatsapp imo
<mapps> yea
<mapps> eharmony eh
<_Ridgewing> yeps.
<_Ridgewing> Only cost a grand in subscription/s.
<_Ridgewing> But I'm in Lurve
 * _Ridgewing blinks
<mapps> lol
<_Ridgewing> What am doing telling you my juicy bits, anyway - This is a tech channel !!!!!!
<mapps> full of fakes and transexuals on dating sites
<mapps> ive been on pof and yea uhh
<_Ridgewing> eHarmony is abit more softcore IMHO.
<mapps> loads of fake profiles nice pics clearly stolen and then guys that are now girls..had a message off them before
<mapps> not for me ta
<_Ridgewing> I take it "ta" is tea, then ?
<mapps> ta like thanks
<_Ridgewing> Oh Ok, but what your favourite type of tea-bag ?
<mapps> http://www.tv.com/shows/supergirl/
<mapps> green tea with honey=]
 * _Ridgewing prefers She-ra to Supergirl.
<_Ridgewing> she-ra was all about eternity - supergirl is all about muscles.
<mapps> decent enoughratings
<mapps> i watch lots of tv;D
<daftykins> _Ridgewing: you not British then?
<mapps> are you new here, didnt recognise the nick
<mapps> daftykins the ta thing?;)
<_Ridgewing> daftykins: I'm a mixer of Manx and Irish, thou.
<daftykins> that's what made me wonder ye :>
<_Ridgewing> I'm quite new.
<mapps> ;]
<daftykins> hehe
<daftykins> alright time to go down the coffee shop i think
<_Ridgewing> I had a haircut yesterday- and I felt like a new man !
<daftykins> ooh already an hour into opening time!
<daftykins> i've been debating losing the pony tail :P
 * _Ridgewing shudders
<mapps> =]
<_Ridgewing> Do we have any Corbyn fans here ?
<mapps> not me
<mapps> ;]
<daftykins> Corin... DALLAAAAAS!
<daftykins> er Corbin
<_Ridgewing> https://www.reddit.com/r/corbyn4leader
<mapps> so you gonna be a regular here _Ridgewing?
<daftykins> </The Fifth Element>
<_Ridgewing> maybe, why is that a problem ?
<mapps> ive never 'got' reddit like twitter
<diplo> Morning all
<mapps> no:P thats good
<daftykins> will be if you bring up politics :)
<_Ridgewing> k
<mapps> just seems like so much text to keep track of
<daftykins> diplo: gm sir
<_Ridgewing> --------------------------------------------------------
<diplo> Can't get used to the speed of login since new ssd :)
<daftykins> haha
<_Ridgewing> I did apply for reddit funding recently.
<diplo> How are we all this rather sh*te morning
<_Ridgewing> **CAnonical funding
<daftykins> is it the "i'll just get up to make a coffee" type chair movement, but then you see the desktop ready? ;)
<mapps> whats that _Ridgewing
<daftykins> not bad here ty, ooh yeah it does look rather nasty out there
<diplo> I used to wait 20 mins before I could get to work, boot up, go make a brew and open all my daily applications and do nothing
<diplo> Yep exactly daftykins :D
<_Ridgewing> mapps: http://community.ubuntu.com/help-information/funding/
<daftykins> :D
<mapps> and re reddit i just mean unless i sit there refreshing how would u keep up with a topic
<_Ridgewing> Right - trading time ...
<daftykins> diplo: i really can't stand being on a machine without one now :( ruins you like proper resolution screens, then multi screens
<mapps> same as twitter, i follow some accounts but notifications alays has like 10000
<mapps> how can you keep up with it all unless constantly checking
<diplo> I need more, tried the one from this lappy in my D820 dell at home
<diplo> Didn't recognise it :(
<diplo> mapps: You just don't care what you missed :)
<mapps> =]
<diplo> That's how I do it, I have lists and add people I like to keep on top of in the list, so have 5 lists
<daftykins> diplo: non recognised o0 still a SATA machine? might need a BIOS update perhaps
<diplo> yeah there is one update
<diplo> No mention of it though
<diplo> But reading online others have had luck with drives, supposedly intel ones work/recognised beter
<diplo> better*
<daftykins> sometimes you get lucky :) i did a RAM upgrade in a Dell that claimed no benefits but it made new RAM POST ok \o/
<daftykins> which did you get?
<diplo> Samsung Evo 850 250gb, work bought it for me so didn't choose per se
<daftykins> ah yeah
<daftykins> mmm not a bad choice at all
<diplo> Oh good, as I am sooooo soooo far out of the hardware game it's ridiculous
<MooDoo> morning all
<daftykins> only Â£65 odd for that one too
<daftykins> MooDoo: gm o/
<diplo> yeah it was a bargain, I want to spuce the speed of my home laptop though
<daftykins> oh yeah i think we may've spoken about its' specs in the past
<diplo> Yeah, that's two I've tried now a hybrid and this one
<diplo> Only bios updater is windows too :/
<daftykins> hmm, freeDOS on a flash drive ;D
<_Ridgewing> Are you looking for an SSD drive ?
<diplo> If I remember correctly I may have done that before... wish I knew someone with some spare drives to test :D
<diplo> Yeah for an *old* laptop
<_Ridgewing> k .. hangon ...
<_Ridgewing> Â£54.99 http://www.hotukdeals.com/deals/sandisk-ultra-ii-2-5-internal-ssd-240-gb-54-99-pcworld-2305892
<daftykins> i'd go crucial BX100 for a budget option maybe
<daftykins> sandisk, not so hot.
<diplo> Yeah, I just don't want to spend the money and it won't work, not the flushest guy with money being a single dad :D
<diplo> If I'd tried this Evo and it had worked I'd have bought one already
<diplo> Just got a UPS for work PC, todays task is to get it to email/Telegram on powerfailure, unfortunately it's only usb connected
<_Ridgewing> Is that a power-back up kinda thing, then ?
<diplo> yeah
<_Ridgewing> cool.
<daftykins> diplo: http://uk.crucial.com/ have a model picker so you can guarantee compatibility
<daftykins> free return if it doesn't work \o/
<_Ridgewing> They have good returns (crucial.com) But there certainly not the budget option.
<diplo> daftykins: thanks, looking now
<daftykins> np :)
<diplo> Only shows memeory
<diplo> :P
<daftykins> aww
<_Ridgewing> Why doesn't this work ? http://tinyurl.com/uukstat
<diplo> domain doesn't resolve
<diplo> www or non www
<SuperMatt> it's not that the domain doesn't resolve, it's that port 80 is not open on ip 85.119.82.16
<SuperMatt> nmap lists the firewall rule as closed, instead of filtered, and I can see port 22 is open, so it's probably that httpd/apache/nginx is down, rather than firewall rules locking it down
<diplo> heh, hadn't gone that far to check
<diplo> Good work :D
<SuperMatt> I'm just breaking out my l337 ex-Rackspace skills
<daftykins> :)
<daftykins> hang on a minute, didn't you chat on here when you got that job? doesn't seem like all that long ago?
<daftykins> mmm gingerbread latte
<_Ridgewing> My domain resolves : http://wilywerewolf.com/
<daftykins> oof, that'll be out of date very quick
<daftykins> hope you only picked one year :)
<_Ridgewing> Just not sure what to do with it.
<_Ridgewing> Yep, I didn't even register it with my real name Hey-Ho domain-monster !
<_Ridgewing> I want to get discourse running, but not sure how ?
<_Ridgewing> Plus, I need shopping cookies.
<_Ridgewing> and bounty cookies.
<daftykins> you're not that redtape fellow from a while back are you?
<_Ridgewing> In fact all types of cookies are acceptable, to me.
<_Ridgewing> daftykins: Why ?
<daftykins> curious.
<_Ridgewing> Well, I'm curious that your curious, too.
<_Ridgewing> :)
<daftykins> i'll take it as a yes then.
<_Ridgewing> daftykins: dunno, describe him to me .
<daftykins> sorry, can't be bothered to play that game.
<_Ridgewing> fair enough, but I think your barking up the wrong tree.
<daftykins> ok
<_Ridgewing> I'm mostly a Kubuntu fan.
 * _Ridgewing is doing the PR and everything.
<daftykins> i installed that in a VM the other day, i find it weird looking
<_Ridgewing> what the wallpaper , or what ?
<_Ridgewing> seems a_lot more solyd to me.
<_Ridgewing> **solid
<daftykins> i'm in a tech channel on IRC, i'm not judging an OS by its' WALLPAPER!
<_Ridgewing> ok, no need to get the hump. Hump day was so yesterday, :)
<daftykins> just pointing out how ridiculous your claim was :)
<daftykins> or query even
<daftykins> nah every UI element really, it's grown up a bit since i last saw it though
<daftykins> but 1.2GB RAM used at boot? that one's been at the cookies
<_Ridgewing> So it's basically the RAM overhead, then ? - well It's not for your average 2004 laptop, I guess.
<daftykins> no that's an aside
<_Ridgewing> go on ...
<_Ridgewing> we need feedback.
<daftykins> no, you don't
<daftykins> i was being told just the other day by a guy who considered joining the kubuntu dev team until he saw how they're just glorified debian repackagers :)
<daftykins> er, just how iffy the dev on that one seems
<_Ridgewing> One of the dev has a Patreon page if you are interested ? https://www.patreon.com/sgclark?ty=h
<ali1234> _Ridgewing: KDE has huge problems with alignment - i have to agree it makes everything look weird
<_Ridgewing> right, got it - I shall pass that on.
<SuperMatt> daftykins: yes, it was only 21 months since I started at Rackspace, but I quit last week for something a little more down to earth
<daftykins> SuperMatt: ah-har! wow almost 2 years :S
<diplo> Whatcha doing now SuperMatt ?
<SuperMatt> I'm working for a company called Sporting Index, doing infrastructure stuff
<diplo> Cool, a bit slow paced ?
<SuperMatt> so this week I have mostly been working on zabbix
<SuperMatt> yeah, lovely and slow paced
<daftykins> rackspace was a bit high pressure and time based eh?
<daftykins> i was just glancing at their careers page, heh
<MooDoo> glad you're enjoying yourself SuperMatt :)
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<daftykins> heya \o
<daftykins> how's brobostigon this fine morning?
<brobostigon> my eczema could be better, and you?
<MooDoo> oh no - https://blogs.fsfe.org/jonas/?p=30 a sad day indee
<daftykins> brobostigon: doh! a friend gets that big time on the island, but when he lived in England it all went away - sea air! all good here ty :)
<brobostigon> daftykins: i find moutains are good as well.
<daftykins> MooDoo: :(
<daftykins> evil cancer
<daftykins> dear Asus, please speed up your UK website
<diplo> Good luck daftykins, it's been awful for years!
<MooDoo> daftykins: yeah i know :(
<daftykins> diplo: :D glad it's not just my funny island then
<daftykins> just ogling my likely new choice: http://www.asus.com/uk/Motherboards/Z170-PRO/specifications/
<daftykins> proper intel gigabit LAN, proper intel USB 3.1 controller
<diplo> I sooooo need a new Pc at home, well everything really :)
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> you can have my core 2 quad once i upgrade ;)
<diplo> Still runs steam though
<diplo> Mines a old Dell workstation, core2duo something with 4 or 6gb of ram
<diplo> More than anything I'd like to be able to play newer games and rip dvd's a lot quicker
<daftykins> mmm you could definitely benefit from a more modern intel i3/i5/i7 with intel quicksync
<daftykins> that's great for the DVD transcoding
<diplo> Yup, stopped using it at home for nearly 2 years :D
<diplo> Switched it on for the kids for Minecraft on the PC, last windows update was like Jan 2013 :D
<daftykins> yeeouch!
<diplo> Wasn't insecure as it hadn't been powered on :)
<SuperMatt> I'll be honest, you should upgrade to windows 10. It's good. Like, really good
<diplo> I just didn't feel like doing computers at home anymore
<MooDoo> I've only got a laptop but we're having an extension so I'm building a new PC for streaming games etc
<diplo> I still don't like it SuperMatt, will stay with 7 for now
<SuperMatt> If I could only have a good SSH client on it, I would genuniely use it for my day to day
<diplo> I'm debating for the same reason MooDoo
<SuperMatt> I really don't like putty
<MooDoo> SuperMatt: wait for SSH to be bult into powershell :D
<SuperMatt> yeah, I was just about to say that
<MooDoo> diplo: :)
<diplo> I use mputty SuperMatt :)
<diplo> SecureCRT is OK, but not free
<MooDoo> diplo: I stream via twitch at the moment via my xbox one :)
<daftykins> xbox one \o/
<diplo> Did I see a vid from you the other day ? Destiny ?
<daftykins> MooDoo: looking forward to the new OS on the 12th? i am :)
<SuperMatt> I think waiting for power shell is th ebest bet for me
<daftykins> on an xbox? XD
<MooDoo> daftykins: ah wondered when it was being release, not fussed really as long as I can stream and play games :)
<daftykins> :)
<daftykins> should be waaaaaay faster to do most things
<daftykins> plus xbox 360 backwards compatibility comes \o/
<MooDoo> well i'm a MS fanboy any way so I'm sure it's going to rock!
<daftykins> ^5! :)
<daftykins> i love win10 streaming from it
<MooDoo> :)
<daftykins> i can play the games up here at my desk
<daftykins> xbox down in the lounge downstairs
<MooDoo> daftykins: I'm wireless laptop so it doesn't work over wireless
<daftykins> sure it does!
<daftykins> i've had my laptop streaming over 130Mbps 'n'
<daftykins> maybe not on the 'very high' setting, but it does admirably
<MooDoo> hmmm will need to look into it as my laptop won't discover the xbox one
<daftykins> is it possible your router / WAP has wireless isolation configured? so it can't see wired devices? unless they're both wireless.
<MooDoo> i'll look into that :)
<MooDoo> daftykins: ah looks like I can just create a new static route in my dd-wrt router and that should fix it
<MooDoo> daftykins: or I'll just plug in a ethernet over power adapter :D
<daftykins> :D
<diplo> My 360 RROD'd last weekend :(
<daftykins> d'aww, long out of warranty?
<daftykins> a friend of mine claims 100% success rate on applying the GPU heatsink bolt application fix, very cheap but a fair amount of time to do
<diplo> Yeah it is
<daftykins> i did a couple myself but they were only ever temporary fixes
<diplo> I've looked on ebay, can get the elite for about 50-60 quid
<diplo> Or Â£79 in Game
<diplo> Can't decide what to do, can't really afford the One yet
<diplo> Kids just bought 4-5 games for the 360 with their birthday money :/
<daftykins> erk! the GPU sink mount kit costs about Â£5 if you're good with hardware
<daftykins> before going that far, it's usually worth unplugging all accessories + the HDD to make sure it's definitely the main unit too
<daftykins> (MS support makes you do that as step 1 too)
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Gunpowder Day, and happy Men Make Dinner Day (totally unrelated)! ð
<Gary> oh I so need to hide someplace safe from bleeding fireworks tonight
<MooDoo> oh no forgot it was that onight
<daftykins> me too!
<daftykins> i'm in the capital so i can't avoid haha
<Gary> I once visited a friend on bonfire night - his housing estate was more like a warzone
<foobarry>  popey thanks for he tp link
<popey> np
<foobarry> sad about losing root on my hudl2 though
<daftykins> they patch it out with their lollipop update?
<foobarry> yeah
<diplo> daftykins: I will look into it thanks, think I'll order another anyhoo and have the old one as a project
<daftykins> i guess now they're winding those down, it'll likely come back
<diplo> Kids can have one in another room if it works
<foobarry> and they don't allow unlocing bootloader
<daftykins> diplo: :D
<foobarry> even though they stopped selling the tablet
<popey> they don't sell the hudl2?
<popey> I thought i saw them in tesco last week
<daftykins> 'til stock runs out i think now
<daftykins> no more making them
<zmoylan-pi> no hudl3...
<daftykins> nope!
<daftykins> they shut down a lot of their content streaming services and are getting out of hardware it seems
<zmoylan-pi> they created a really nice piece of kit, got a lot of mindshare and then throw it away...
<daftykins> Tesco's big cheese wants to focus on the supermarket being a... supermarket :D
<zmoylan-pi> well that's not going to work when aldi and lidl are nearby
<zmoylan-pi> i use tesco mobile for my mobile phone.  hope that keeps going as it's best/only prepay in ireland left
<daftykins> hmm
<zmoylan-pi> no junk sms, cheapest, good coverage...
<daftykins> i think they're just a MVNO over there - the virtual networks?
<zmoylan-pi> same here, piggy backing on 02's network, now owened by 3 i think
<daftykins> ah yeah
<zmoylan-pi> i use data, calls sms so little that i get 2-3 months per â¬5
<daftykins> wowzer!
<daftykins> we have 3 mobile providers right now, but one is buying the other yet again so we'll be back to 2 :(
<zmoylan-pi> on any other network â¬5 only lasts 2 weeks and then i need to add another â¬5 for 2 more weeks as they moved to rolling contracts but still calling it prepay
<zmoylan-pi> so i kinda want to stick to proper prepay :-) â¬30 for same if i get a rolling contract...
<zmoylan-pi> if i don't get a choice, i'll probably just ditch using a sim, it's not worth that amount of money for so little usage
<awilkins> GiffGaff is kind of in that space
<awilkins> You can do a rolling contract or pay as you go
<awilkins> They charge a flat Â£0.06 a text, and Â£0.10 a minute, Â£0.20 for the first 20MB of data in a day
<awilkins> I think I was getting by with about Â£6 a month but I just upped it to Â£10 so I could stop worrying about data
<awilkins> Calls to other GiffGaff phones are free
<awilkins> They too subcontract onto the O2 network
<daftykins> *nod* saw some ads for that the other day, can't remember where as i don't normally see broadcast TV
<zmoylan-pi> of course since 3 bought 02 they've been shutting down the 2g network to push 4g which is annoying
<awilkins> Yeah, the coverage of even 3G is still awful on transport links
<awilkins> Which is a real PITA when you are using Maps and you need a reroute and you can't get decent data
<zmoylan-pi> i use cycle streets for offline map as there is a uk and ireland download for all the map data
<awilkins> I find the thing where it will route you around traffic pretty useful
<zmoylan-pi> it won't do the routing offline but i never use that
<awilkins> I have no idea how I would function without satnav now :-)
<zmoylan-pi> i have a compass in my bag... :-)
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: I have a watch with hands who needs a compass
<Gary> how do you tell direction with a watch with hands?
<zmoylan-pi> take lots of iron, point, spin and when you stop you'll be pointing north :-)
<bigcalm> http://www.wikihow.com/Use-an-Analog-Watch-as-a-Compass
<Gary> ah, it's cloudy :'(
<zmoylan-pi> and it doesn't work when summer time is in effect :-)
<zmoylan-pi> i did get a cheap watch in lidl with a compass feature builtin.  but i don't wear it
<davmor2> Gary: you can still tell where the sun is even now when it is cloudy
<zmoylan-pi> not it ireland you can't
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: it does work you just set the hand back an hour which takes a couple of seconds
<zmoylan-pi> there are days you're not even sure it's day when the could cover is really thick
<Gary> davmor2, it's in the sky! :p
<davmor2> JamesTait: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LF1951pENdk
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<MooDoo> morning
<zmoylan-pi> because using a solar powered charger on a plane should make everyone around you nervous... :-P https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/da/f6/ce/daf6ce953f87af11d8110291c101210b.jpg
<awilkins> zmoylan-pi, That's mental
<Gary> can anyone recommend a veeam cloud connect supplier?
<foobarry> a reseller?
<foobarry> or a service provider
<Gary> provider really, but we basically have veeam and want to sync our local backups to a cloud provider, I just need to get some prices
<diddledan> wow: https://youtu.be/_VPvKl6ezyc
<diddledan> it's like a scene out of iron man
<diddledan> really quiet today
<zmoylan-pi> IS THIS BETTER? :-)
<diddledan> too loud!
<zmoylan-pi> i'll go outside and repeat it so.... ::footsteps and door opening closing nosies::
<zmoylan-pi> is this better?
<diddledan> were those door noises the kind you'd find on a cheap (but awesome) B-roll movie?
<zmoylan-pi> oooooh the numbeer of support calls were i asked people to close windows on the desktop and you'd hear footsteps and windows been slammed closed...
<zmoylan-pi> let's see, you're running windows 3.1 with 4mb with 20 applications running and you say it's going slow... we need to close a few windows...
<zmoylan-pi> just get the bbc workshop generic door sounds album 2 for for all your squeaky door noise requirements.
<diddledan> warzone here in basingstoke
<diddledan> explosions going off
<Gnar> Yo, check it
<Gnar> Call Lil' Cease
<Gnar> Tell that muh'fucker to bring me some muh'fuckin weed for this hospital
<Gnar> man fuck that
<Gnar> Tell that reporter to go pick up ten thousand from Dez
<Gnar> and go take about like twenty G's from Gino
<Gnar> Tell that muh'fucker get this nigga next door up out of here
<Gnar> Nigga be snorin all night I can't sleep (hehe)
<Gnar> Call that big butt nurse with the long hair to come suck my dick
<diddledan> did anyone spot this yet? https://store.bbc.com/
<mapps> hm
<mapps> new maze runner seems a bit rubbish
<diddledan> I've not seen the first one yet
#ubuntu-uk 2015-11-06
<mapps> hm
<mapps> well
<mapps> i thought first was good
<mapps> but 2nd was well just meh
<mapps> anyone watch the player?7
<mapps> noone around?
<diddledan> morning mapps
 * diddledan just starting up mission impossible rogue nation
<mapps> hm
<mapps> what was one before
<mapps> not sure i saw it
<mapps> always overrated imo
<diddledan> ghost protocol
<mapps> hmmm
<mapps> think i skipped
<mapps> let me know how it is
<mapps> im watching the player tv series
<mapps> lol at the player
<mapps> usual nonsense fighting in the plane one jumps out other jumps out without a parrachute then they're fighting while falling through the air
<DaveyG> hi all, anyone heard of the kano?
<mapps> not me
<mapps> the kano?
<mapps> diddledan ..good?
<mapps> ?
<DaveyG> its some kind od RPi build i think
<mapps> never heard of it:D
<mapps> back to the player, 1 more ep then sleep:D
<DaveyG> lol
<mapps> i kinda like it, although has some typical failures
<mapps> 5 billion bullets fired..none hit him..yawn.,,hate that:D
<DaveyG> sounds like a good, go to bed film mte
<DaveyG> mate
<DaveyG> I miss internet tv so much
<DaveyG> what you using to watch mapps?
<mapps> i just download everything
<mapps> i dont bother streaming
<mapps> i re-watch tv eps a lot..well some
<mapps> DaveyG the player is a new series..nbc one:)
<DaveyG> ah cool mapps
<mapps> sleep time for me
<mapps> i watch sunny in philly to fall asleep:)
<diplo> Morning all
<MooDoo> morning
<mapps> night all:P
<mapps> wow amazon fire tablet's kinda cheap
<davmor2> Morning all
<mapps> morning
<davmor2> cracking morning song today https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEPTlhBmwRg
<Laney> hmm, Uber is launching here today
<zmoylan-pi> so taxi drivers strike/protest in 3, 2, 1...
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Friday, and happy Nachos Day! ð
 * zmoylan-pi ponders trying a spice bag...
<zmoylan-pi> the new irish delicay that is doing the rounds is the spice bag... http://www.independent.ie/entertainment/banter/spice-bag-voted-irelands-favourite-dish-34131293.html
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<mangamonk> ZenCODE
<Laney> wtf
<Laney> who sets off fireworks in the day?
<Laney> and why did it sound so close to the windows?
 * Laney goes off to scout
<SuperMatt> you can get daytime fireworks now
<zmoylan-pi> lifeboat service near me still use maroons to summon crews as well as sms
<czajkowski> Laney: they went on for hours last night here, a pug and fireworks = crazy running around a house
<Laney> hah
<czajkowski> eh no Hah
<Laney> I went to a hilariously bad fireworks display at the pub
<czajkowski> bonkers!
<Laney> i think they had left them in the rain
<Laney> so it took about 2 minutes to light each one
<czajkowski> He wasn't afraid just wanted to bark and bark
<czajkowski> and run around the garden in circles
<foobarry> help!! i have 2 ruby versions installed, but ruby -v gives the correct one. bundle install is using the old version (which i need still)
<foobarry> how can i tell bundle to use ruby2
<foobarry> ahhh. hard coded in the bundle file
<dogmatic69_> is it possible to use a shared ssh key?
<dogmatic69_> Ie, need to git deploy from test server to live, multiple users doing deploys
<dogmatic69_> or, might not need to do that actually...
<ali1234> you can copy both the public and private part of a key anywhere you like
<ali1234> whether it's a good idea or not is a different question of course
<mapps> brrrr
<mapps> cold
<mapps> :D
<DJones> yay, rebuilt server
<MooDoo> DJones: yay
<DJones> Old server died last week with processor/heatsink issues, swapped the drive out into an identical case, but wouldn't get internet connection & too busy to trouble shoot, turned out to be eth0 had become eth1 after transferring the drive into the new case
<DJones> Ah well, back on irc again :)
<zmoylan-pi> can't stop the signal mal
<MooDoo> cool, back to normal then :D
<davmor2> MooDoo: you can talk RHEL pfffff weirdo ;)
<MooDoo> davmor2: only my storage server :p website still runs ubuntu :p
<MooDoo> better not mentioned my virtual hosts lol
<davmor2> MooDoo: windows I bet I know what you're like ;)
<MooDoo> davmor2: for the moment yes lol not sure if to change them to ubuntu/gluster/kvm or centos/gluster/kv
<MooDoo> they are getting changed this weekend :D
<davmor2> MooDoo: you mean you still haven't played with lxd?
<MooDoo> davmor2: not yet, i'm waiting to see if I get a new server for christmas then i'm playing with MAAS/juju
<davmor2> MooDoo: you don't need to do that https://linuxcontainers.org/lxd/try-it/   http://summit.ubuntu.com/uos-1511/meeting/22625/an-introduction-to-lxd-the-container-hypervisor/
<MooDoo> you're going to scramble my brain you are davmor2
<davmor2> MooDoo: why you get to play with it now you'll be an expert by the time you get your server :P
<MooDoo> davmor2: yeah I've just had a quick go with it :)
<davmor2> MooDoo: watch the demo video it really will play with your head
<DJones> MooDoo: Yep, back to normal thankfully
<diddledan> evening
<diddledan> wow, someone actually claims to have a valid mathematical model for time travel: http://www.techradar.com/news/world-of-tech/future-tech/this-man-is-closer-than-ever-to-building-the-world-s-first-time-machine-1308032
<DJones> diddledan: Given that there appears to be no evidence of anybody travelling back in time from the future, I guess his research has been discounted
<DJones> As in the guy's father still passed away when he did, sonothing changed there
<diddledan> the premise is that any time travel can only occur as far back as the first device was turned on to be able to receive
<zmoylan-pi> there's probably a self limiting problem associated with time travel... like you invent time machine, use lotto numbers and time machine to get rich and then retire to your own private island populated with angelina jolie clones you grew in future... :-)
<popey> Primer. Watched that half a dozen times. Still don't quite get it.
<popey> Need to watch it slowly, pausing and having one of those documents to guide me through.
<mapps> whats that
<popey> a film about time travel
<popey> low budget cult following
<foobarry> detectorists \o/
<popey> now?
<mapps> so my order went leeds-> east mids->gatwick->barca->sevilla->malaga
<mapps> i guess next stop gib
<mapps> seems a long awkward route
<foobarry> popey: series 2 ep2 just watching on my box
<popey> oh, it was on yesterday
<popey> will watch that later
<foobarry> it makes me happy
<popey> ditto
<foobarry> wistful and relax
<popey> sunny days
<foobarry> warm sunny day with bird song
<popey> nice landscapes, quiet places
<foobarry> they got the formula perfect
<foobarry> maybe an old plane flying overheard
 * popey goes back to playing GTA5 :)
<mapps> ;]
<foobarry> the crack of leather on willow
<mapps> im going to gauchos in a bit yay
<mapps> my favourite restaurant:D
<foobarry> i had the strangest sausage in the week
<foobarry> from a gastropub
<mapps> lol strange how
<foobarry> called napoli sausage
<foobarry> it tasted...odd
<foobarry> strong peppery flavour but something else weird
<foobarry> maybe fennel
<popey> hops?
<foobarry> wasn't very nice, and i've eaten a lot of sausages
<foobarry> was also served with lentils and submerged in oil
<popey> our local butcher does hoppy sausages
<foobarry> rather unsatisfactory experience
<popey> they're perfect for toad in the hole
<foobarry> and the pork was pink in the middle
<foobarry> yeah, fennel
<mapps> do i take my passport hmm
<mapps> dont want to go to spain really,so no!
#ubuntu-uk 2015-11-07
<knightwise> morning peeps !
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<MartijnVdS> \o brobostigon
<brobostigon> hi MartijnVdS
<diddledan> windows 7 is by far the most popular os in netscore stats with XP falling in second (still!)
<diddledan> ref: https://www.thurrott.com/windows/7473/windows-10-approaches-8-of-pc-market-share
<zmoylan-pi> 1 billion chinese pirate copies can't be wrong :-)
<Neoti_Laptop> Anyone looking to recruit a network guy with experience of Vyatta/VyOS and UBNT Microwave kit. looking for new opportunities and contracts
<diddledan> you know I was just this second wondering where I can find a network person with experience of Vyatta/VyOS and UBNT Microwave kit
<Neoti_Laptop> lol... :)
<m0nkey_> I got 50% of that requirement
<diddledan> m0nkey_, don't you have a microwave in the kitchen?
<m0nkey_> Not a Ubiquiti one
<diddledan> meh, it's all the same :-p
<diddledan> the queen likes microwaves - she barely moves her hand at all when waving
<SuperEngineer> diddledan, thart would be because she out her hand in the microwave!
<brobostigon> new dr who, :)
#ubuntu-uk 2015-11-08
<mapps> yo
<mapps> yay gotham time
<mapps> quiet ere
<SuperEngineer> ssssshhhh ;-)
<SuperEngineer> Bad moment: when you right click on a file and accidentally hit "delete" instead of rename
<SuperEngineer> Good moment: you restore file in a few secounds from last night's "Back In Time" copy :-)
<SuperEngineer> In Flanders Fields - John McCrae, May 1915 - http://paste.ubuntu.com/13192249/
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<MartijnVdS> \o brobostigon
<brobostigon> hi MartijnVdS
<bittin> morning
<penguin42> popey: What's your boot time like - on this old core2 my boot time in W and X is pretty awful - 6.23s kernel, 46s userspace
<diddledan> evening
<popey> penguin42, not timed it
<penguin42> popey: run   systemd-analyze
<popey> oooh
<popey> Startup finished in 23.306s (kernel) + 3min 3.314s (userspace) = 3min 26.621s
<penguin42> wow, I thought mine was bad
<popey> heh
<popey> oh, i know why
<popey> mine hangs because I had two LUKs drives and got rid of one
<popey> I have fixed it but not rebooted since
<penguin42> ah
<popey> actually maybe I have rebooted since and that's not it
<popey> is there some detail to that report?
<penguin42> yeh there are some options where you can get it to spit out a chart
<penguin42> systemd-analyze plot > foo.svg
<popey> ooh
<popey> also blame
<penguin42> popey: also, can you do a      dmesg |grep ifup       I see a pair of segs in there (with no apparent downside)
<popey> i see nothing
<penguin42> hmm fun
<popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/13196193/ is the blame
<diddledan> wow that's awesome
<popey> yeah
<penguin42> http://paste.ubuntu.com/13196209/ is mine
<popey> not seen this before
<penguin42> the graph is pretty as well - very much like the old bootchart
<popey> mine is quite red
 * penguin42 disables mysql startup and hope it wasn't needed by anything
<diddledan> lol
 * diddledan disables the kernel and hopes it wasn't needed :-p
<diddledan> who is this colonel anyway?
<popey> http://popey.com/~alan/foo.svg
<popey> (I actually upgraded to xenial 3 days ago) :D
<diddledan> that's absolutely amazing
<popey> wonder if the kernel stuff is it waiting on my LUKS password?
<DJones> diddledan: They're not a full "bird" colonel, more like a NCO, "corporal" :)
<penguin42> popey: Yeh you do get the waiting for LUKS included somewhere - but I didn't think during the kernel
<popey> unrelated, are you still rocking the oneplus penguin42 ?
<popey> I ordered a OnePlus X (smaller new device they do) the other day
<diddledan> "who needs a smartphone" "not me, I need fifteen smartphones :-p"
<penguin42> popey: Yeh, still beign good to me - not done anything to exciting to it
<popey> good to know it's lasted well :)
<penguin42> popey: looks like your power manager needs forceful education
<popey> heh yeah
<penguin42> popey: http://www.treblig.org/debug/davros.svg
<diddledan> davros?!
<penguin42> diddledan: This old core2 laptop that mostly just runs irc :-)
<popey> I'll do a couple of clean boots later and see if things have improved
<diddledan> irc!
<diddledan> \o/
<popey> things change a lot in 3 days on the devel release, even over a weekend
<diddledan> I guess being immediately after release of 15.10 there's a lot changing in xerus right now?
<diddledan> or are we calling it xenial?
<penguin42> popey: For comparison; my f23 desktop (i7, ssd  so a lot faster)   http://www.treblig.org/debug/major.svg
<popey> wow
<popey> my laptop is also i7/ssd
<popey> "Cloud edition".. really? :)
<penguin42> popey: Oh, I don't think anyone has a clue about f edition naming
<popey> hah
<popey> good good
<penguin42> popey: To be fair the core2 is running KDE, and the i7 xfce
<penguin42> so the later part of it is probably lighter
<popey> I'm running MATE here
<popey> unrelated, this is worth a read http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/nov/07/fisherman-lost-at-sea-436-days-book-extract?CMP=fb_gu
<penguin42> popey: OK, MATE off an SSD should be up and ready a few seconds after you give your LUKS password
<popey> yeah
<popey> this is a year or more old install that's been upgraded and had all kinds of crap installed
<popey> needs a cleanup
<penguin42> popey: You might be able to find your kernel part from a dmesg, see if it sticks anyway for a while
<popey> yeah
<diddledan__> what exactly does apt/dpkg mean when it says "selecting previously deselected package"?
<diddledan__> seems in wily it's evolved from "deselected" to "unselected". still rather opaque as to what it actually means tho
<daftykins> marking it from [] to like -> [install preez!]
<diddledan> eh? those two messages took 40 minutes to arrive in the channel? (I sent them at 18:35 and 18:36 on my other machine and this one has only just attributed them at 19:18 for both - they're also listed after contempt, SupaYoshia and Stanley_Darth joined when my other machines has them sent before those joins)
<diddledan> daftykins, so.. it's saying "I know you asked for them to be installed but I chose not to"?
<diddledan> like I say "apt, go install this" and it says "you said to install it, but nyer nyer. I'm going to install it when I decide!"
<zmoylan-pi> freenode was very laggy for me earlier but that's a new one
<daftykins> diddledan: i thought it is more two tools together, dpkg does the installation whilst apt handles the database portion - so marking it to be installed is logging the desire - whilst dpkg is actioning it? might be wrong
<diddledan> but my point is apt isn't selecting anything. _I_ selected it in the commandline and then apt tells me that it's selecting it again because it wasn't selected (by me!)
<daftykins> that's just confirming prior state :D
<diddledan> afaict it also says the same on stuff it's updating which I've already installed prior but has a new version
<diddledan> it's just a pointless and silly message that makes no sense
<diddledan> why not just say "installing X"
<daftykins> hrmm
<daftykins> but the real question, are you enjoying apt's progress bar? :D
<zmoylan-pi> for the same same reason mode access standby replaced the archaic on/off :-)
<diddledan> NO! because the messages are evil! :-p
<diddledan> mode access?
 * zmoylan-pi realises i'm in a channel with kids who haven't read h2g2...
<diddledan> oh dear, I've let you down, I've let geekdom down, and worse, I've let myself down
 * penguin42 admits to only knowing the radio series
 * zmoylan-pi is mentally preparing myself to the realisation that i'm the only one here who carries a towel...
<penguin42> zmoylan-pi: No, the radio series had the towels
<penguin42> but, granted zmoylan-pi is a cool frood
<diddledan> vogon poetry ftw
<diddledan> I've decided that virgin media "super hub"s are far from super when used in routing mode
<penguin42> oh, no they really aren't; mine is in modem mode
<zmoylan-pi> if they have to describe it as super it's obviously lacking something...
<diddledan> I'm on a 150Mbit/s connection and getting throughput of about 15KB/s
<penguin42> diddledan: I do see people complaining about really bad areas, there are lots of stats things you can find on the router though
<diddledan> aye
<diddledan> I'm switching it back to modem mode methinks
<daftykins> i used to like those simple little box modems back in 2006 they did... none of this 'superhub' really bad attempt at a router rubbish :>
<diddledan> yeah I wish they'd go back to providing a bridge/modem and let the consumer decide what router they want
<tripleclones> they did remove the modem option when they first released the superhub, came after customer pressure
<diddledan> I also wish other mainstream providers would do the same - bt have their own thingy as do sky as do EE as do TalkTalk. It means you have to pay a premium to get a service without a router
<penguin42> diddledan: Given that it does have a modem mode I can't really complain
<diddledan> penguin42, except if you phone to tell them about a fault they query your box and say "oh, you're in modem mode, let me fix that for you"
<penguin42> diddledan: And since they're the only UK DOCSIS provider it's not like their is a market for it
<penguin42> diddledan: No, I've had them be OK with it being in modem mode
<diddledan> I've had exactly that scenario play out over the phone
<penguin42> huh ok
<diddledan> they've rebooted my router and turned off the modem mode before I got the chance to say no
<penguin42> diddledan: One thing, I find the log dates on the 'Network Log' page of modem mode has the month out by one - i.e. it runs from 0..11
<diddledan> yeah that's wonky
<diddledan> :-p
<penguin42> diddledan: Have you been upgraded to the new 'vivid' - i.e. speed bump; my date for that keeps slipping (about 1 month every 2 weeks)
<diddledan> no :-(
<penguin42> diddledan: And I see most people on the forums are saying it's going slower - I guess they haven't bumped their backend bandwidth yet
<diddledan> the website that tells you your expected date says I've got to wait until between April and September
<penguin42> diddledan: Ah, mine started off by telling me that I would be told when by the end of October, then it said I'd be done in November, now it's telling me I'll be told when by the end of December
<daftykins> when i heard the UK ISPs had started making their provided gear only work on their service, that was one step too far imo
<daftykins> like sky had firmware modified netgears for their ADSL service a few years back iirc
<diddledan> seriously shoddy IMO - they seemed to claim that the speed bump was nationwide with a switchon of october. now it transpires they aren't ready
<penguin42> diddledan: Yeh they announced the speedbump at the same time as they put prices up
<diddledan> daftykins they did
<diddledan> daftykins now they have their own box which is effectively the same idea but isn't a rebadging job but an actual bespoke
<daftykins> ah har
<diddledan> the sky system requires a wonky dhcp request from the router which contains login details which sky won't tell you with the theory that you must use their router if they don't tell you the login detilas
<penguin42> diddledan: Which speed grade are you on - I'm on the bottom
<diddledan> top
<diddledan> 152
<penguin42> ah
<tripleclones> http://www.speedtest.net/result/4776398837.png
 * penguin42 wouldn't know what to do with all those bits
<penguin42> very nice upload
<tripleclones> thats what I had when I was on 152Mbps
<penguin42> they're supposed to be increasing the upload for those of us on the bottom rung when they do the update; it's currently 3mbps
<tripleclones> we could live quite happily with a smaller tier
<penguin42> the latency on virgin is what I normally find very impressive
<zmoylan-pi> roll on the 11-31-2015 :-P
<penguin42> why?
<zmoylan-pi> the end of december according to the modem :-)
<penguin42> yeh
<zmoylan-pi> thus those that besmirched virgin were banshed :-)
<zmoylan-pi> *banished
<popey> i have a virgin media engineer coming here between 8am and 12pm
<popey> not quite sure why, i think they think the cables are broken or something
<popey> I do hope he doesn't use this as an excuse to push me to drop my STB
<daftykins> gotta move with the times! :)
<tripleclones> popey you still having issues then
<popey> no
<tripleclones> we had an outage last Wed/Thu but was everyone in area, think it must have been a hardware failure in the cabinets or such like
<daftykins> VM does seem as stable as a cow balancing in a shopping trolley on top of Mr.Bean's mini
<zmoylan-pi> but we would all watch that episode...
 * daftykins writes it and submits it to the BBC & Rowan Atkinson
<popey> Mine is super stable
<popey> I think I've had maybe 3 or 4 downtimes since I have been with them
<daftykins> they used to have a lot of early hours drops back in my student days :)
<daftykins> so if you keep sane times the majority might not be noticed
<tripleclones> mine is stable as well, had it since we moved in 2009 and reckon we are under 5 really disruptive issues
<tripleclones> and not many more minor niggles
#ubuntu-uk 2016-11-07
<knightwise> Morning everyone
<daftykins> hallo \o
<knightwise> hey daftykins
<knightwise> how are you man
<daftykins> not too bad at all thanks! and yourself? got the excitement of a misbehaving Lenovo laptop to look at today
<knightwise> That sounds annoyng
<knightwise> I've been pondering what my next laptop is going to be, not looking foward to the new macbooks with their usbCports
<daftykins> sort of, user claims a crazy touchpad and system freezing when the lid is opened after having been closed (no sleep action configured)
<daftykins> was it yourself with a Dell XPS13 9350
<daftykins> + ?
<daftykins> 'cause i love mine
<knightwise> Yep , i have that one :)
<knightwise> The macbook I use for my company
<knightwise> I do presentations on it, video editing etc
<knightwise> The xps runs Ubuntu,
<daftykins> can't stand Apple myself
<daftykins> oh, is there not good enough video editing software available?
<knightwise> daftykins: need it for my company. (I'm a freelance ICT consultant and I do a lot of talks and presentations)
<knightwise> daftykins: comparing openshot to final cut pro might be stretching it a little
<daftykins> i've just genuinely never looked, never done video editing and i don't run Linux on the desktop
<knightwise> Audio editing would be fine on linux , Audacity and some other tools are all I need
<knightwise> but .. video editing is another thing.
<knightwise> but its more the presentation workflow
<knightwise> If i have a machine with only usbC ports is gonna be a hassle to hook it up to projectors and stuff
<daftykins> yep
<daftykins> but then you'd have to have a screw loose to buy one
<daftykins> right now those models are at the "only good for burning early adopters" stage
<knightwise> true
<knightwise> I still have a year to go if/when i'm gonna replace it
<daftykins> how old is your existing model?
<knightwise> might just replace it with a desktop mac mini and go for somthing different on the mobile site
<knightwise> mine is just over 2 years
<knightwise> but after three years its written off for the company so i might need to buy a new one
<knightwise> not HAVE to but ..
<knightwise> Definately not gonna buy the first version of a new model
<daftykins> if you saw the Louis Rossman youtube video, it's better to buy the 2014/15 model apparently
<daftykins> also, mac minis haven't been refreshed in forever so that'd be a very unwise move
<daftykins> http://buyersguide.macrumors.com/#Mac
<knightwise> True,
<knightwise> but i still have over a year to decide
<knightwise> so .. i have time
<daftykins> yarr, rumour has it some more machines are getting announced in the new year
<knightwise> but the video (i saw it too) did make me wonder what workflows I absolutely HAVE to have on OSX
<daftykins> heh yeah i would go out of my way to avoid them
<knightwise> true
<knightwise> most important workflow right now is Presentations
<knightwise> Do thoe is keynote
<knightwise> works fine, looks good , reliable
<knightwise> openoffice isnt quite there yet
<Nafallo> morning
<daftykins> \o
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<daftykins> hiya
<brobostigon> hi daftykins
<Gargoyle> o/
<brobostigon> \o
 * zmoylan-pi looks forward to a nice hot bowl of porridge on this cold monday...
<brobostigon> yes please.
<knightwise> hmm that sounds nice
<daftykins> i was thinking my usual cold cereal wasn't cutting it, probably going to nip to 'The Cornish Bakery' this morning to get a nice hot sausage roll instead ;)
<daftykins> silly folks don't even have their opening times on their site
<popey> Pain au chocolat here :)
<daftykins> :O
<daftykins> my eyes would say yes but my need to lose a few pounds wouldn't ^_^
<daftykins> mind you i keep buying crumpets and spreading nutella on them, so i doubt that's going so well...
<daftykins> Gargoyle: you might want to give SASL auth a go, so you don't join, quit, join to change hostname :>
<knightwise> Just coffee and an apple over here
<daftykins> for brekkie!? D:
<davmor2> Morning all
<knightwise> Running a fullscreen Linux VM on my surface pro 4 here :) looks sexy
<daftykins> just how many machines do you have? :P
<daftykins> my clients surface pro 4 was exhibiting those sleep issues they've all got and not fixed, not very impressive
<knightwise> daftykins: 3, SP4, XPS13 and my MPB
<daftykins> crikey
 * knightwise is a cross platform geek
<daftykins> don't need all 3 to do that though :P
<diplo> Morning all
<daftykins> \o
<daftykins> how goes it diplo?
<diplo> Not to bad thanks matey, yourself ?
<knightwise> daftykins: I also need them for my company :)Ã 
<daftykins> yeah good! early yet though :D
<daftykins> knightwise: pssh
<knightwise> SP4 at the client , MBP for freelance work , XPS for fun and learnign
<knightwise> hey diplo
<diplo> Been up since 4:30/5 so close to midday here :D
<daftykins> hehe
<knightwise> what hot beverage are you havng this morning ?
<daftykins> well i meant my working day, but i've been up since ~8pm last night XD
<daftykins> nipping to the bank now, benefits of living on the high street \o
<diplo> Dear god, how old are you, I couldn't do thwe all nighters anymore!
<knightwise> daftykins is a vampire
<knightwise> I just turned 42 .. allnighters no longer an option
 * brobostigon just made himself a breakfast toastie.
<knightwise> hmm.. That sounds nice
 * knightwise hasnt had breakfast :(
<zmoylan-pi> you'd think the partial success they have with surface pro they'd go all out to fix the issues with it
<knightwise> zmoylan-pi: agreed
<knightwise> All the hibernate problems are fixed on mine
<knightwise> so currently its behaving admirably
<zmoylan-pi> but you hear of all the problems and i'd find myself trusting it less as they continue to happen
<daftykins> hibernate != sleep
<zmoylan-pi> 8.7
<knightwise> lets say i trust the device for 90%
<zmoylan-pi> wow, i'd take a hammer to it if i had hardware that unreliable
<daftykins> local copper and a youngish guy walk along the high street as i'm headed home with my sausage roll... "would you mind helping with a survey about police reporting?"
<daftykins> i said "yes i would" and carried on home to eat :P
<zmoylan-pi> they smelt sausage roll and wanted in on the action... :-P
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> the true long arm of the law, pinching food
<zmoylan-pi> be thankful it wasn't donuts
<daftykins> oh and NatWest on the high street were having their automatic doors fixed :D
<daftykins> diplo: well, 31... but i don't plan to finish the day in full :>
<zmoylan-pi> post brexit, they'll only allow you in if you are wearing bicycle clips and carrying an umbrella? :-)
<daftykins> well that event didn't do anything to us
<daftykins> our banks are offshore variants that can't be dealt with in mainland branches - we've been out of the EU this whole time
<diplo> My kids had just been born then, I guess that was the end of my all nighters (apart from work )
<zmoylan-pi> poor tescobank seems to have been hacked
<daftykins> :o
<diplo> ut oh, I have tesco bank account!
<diplo> Although now unused
<zmoylan-pi> they've disabled their cards as money seems to have gone walkabout
<daftykins> isn't that a really generic pub chain? ;)
<diplo> No emails from them about it, just telling me I have payments due in 5 days ( I don't they just send it anyway ) if ($balance == 0 ) dont send mail
<daftykins> :D
<zmoylan-pi> http://news.sky.com/story/tesco-freezes-thousands-of-bank-cards-over-fraud-fears-10647549
<daftykins> hmm mythbuntu is no more... last 2 devs quit
<zmoylan-pi> mythtv... a name i haven't heard in a long time...
<diplo> Haven't used myth for years, didn't realise it was still going
<diplo> It's a pity Tescos didn't feel the need to get in contact with its custoemrs
<zmoylan-pi> but that would involve sending them an email, which they've been told they'd never do... #21st century dilemmas
<daftykins> perhaps they're still rushing around screaming?
<zmoylan-pi> all those rushing around screaming have been sent to the chicken processing plant... :-P
 * daftykins spies the cat trying to find new things to claw
<knightwise> So who is watching the season finaly for America this week
<zmoylan-pi> if you don't provide something for the cat to claw, they will make their own arrangements
<daftykins> ugh i'm sick to death of that country's politics :P
<daftykins> zmoylan-pi: and then unarrange them ;)
<daftykins> she doesn't find her actual scratching post all that worthy, as it goes
<JamesTait> Good morning all! Happy Monday, and happy Hug a Bear Day! ð  ð»
<daftykins> woo \o/
<daftykins> although i just saw "The Revenant" (film) the other night and i'm not so sure that's a good idea! :D
<zmoylan-pi> my favourite was the bear that attacked a japanese pensioner a few years back... ex wwii vet who went all samurai on it...
<diplo> Just told my mate about the Tescos thing, he reckons the 20k people are on the Tesco Value account and not the Tescos Finest Bank account ,not the same quality!
<zmoylan-pi> the value accounts only have 1 digit pins or something? :-)
<davmor2> JamesTait: man now I can't get the huggy bear walking down the street bowm chigga bowmmmm music out of my head
<SebthreeBQM10HD> hi
<SebthreeBQM10HD> whos here?
<zmoylan-pi> no one here but us chickens
<SebthreeBQM10HD> ok your here at least
<foobarry> you're
<foobarry> :P
<knightwise> Boog
<popey> Zarro Boogs.
<zmoylan-pi> would that be from the essex boogs? :-P
<foobarry> the worst thing about being fb friends with people in australia are the "bring on the summer" statuses when we're all freezing in UK
<zmoylan-pi> people down the sea front yesterday buying icecream even if it was 2c... just to keep warm... :-)
<davmor2> foobarry: yeah but when they are basking in the sun in the winter we are........wait has the southern hemisphere just stolen all the sun
<diplo> foobarry: Glad you popped up... what is the Nagios alternative you use?
<diplo> I want to give it a try
<diplo> anagios or something?
<foobarry> adagios, its a wrapper on top of nagios to make it awesome
<foobarry> it allows editing configs via the webui
<diplo> Ta, will start a container up now and tinker
<diplo> That's what I want, the guys in are other office have problems otherwise
<foobarry> and still allows to see the /nagios underneath at any time (you won't want to)
<foobarry> pretty vs ugly
<diplo> Run it on centos ?
<foobarry> yep
<foobarry> i have puppet scripts to install it
<diplo> Ah right, I'm an ansible man so far, keep meaning to try puppet
<diplo> Cent7 ?
<davmor2> diplo, foobarry: Zabbix and munin are two I've heard people in the lug bound around
<foobarry> our server is on c6 for legacy reasons
<diplo> Yeah not a fan really, we still have cent4 in paces foobarry :(
<davmor2> no idea how good bad or indifferent they are they were just mentioned
<foobarry> brobostigon: how did the interview go?
<diplo> I have nagios running / querying 80 of our customer sites, but because its 'hard' people don't use it enough
<foobarry> adagios should fix most simple config changes e.g. adding new contacts and adding services
<foobarry> bulk ack'ing of alerts etc
<foobarry> btw if you use monitoring screens, then nagcon displays your nagios/adagios alerts in a terminal
<diplo> just setting up the container now and will have installed shortly
<foobarry> its the best awy to show nagios alerts that i've used/seen
<diplo> oh right, they had a 42" screen up in our other office for it
<diplo> god knows what they do now
<zmoylan-pi> times have moved on, a drone that pokes the person responsible probably :-)
<diplo> As I say, we don't move on... RH8 and Cent4 servers and 2 x sco servers
<diddledan_> https://twitter.com/alicemazzy/status/795051371149918208
<diddledan_> lol
<diplo> Up and running foobarry thanks
<diplo> Looks good
<diplo> Imagine installing an OS, installing all packages and a monitoring software in 26 mins even 5 years ago
<diddledan_> apparently mythbuntu is no more
<diddledan_> ref: http://news.softpedia.com/news/mythbuntu-linux-is-no-more-the-distribution-has-been-officially-discontinued-509985.shtml
<davmor2> JamesTait: belated https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sib4tOC4iUE
#ubuntu-uk 2016-11-08
<knightwise> Is this going to be an election free channel today ?
<acheronuk> what election?
 * acheronuk runs
<knightwise> Hope so.. have turned off the radio at the office for the day
<daftykins> good morning \o
<knightwise> hey foobarry
<knightwise> hey daftykins
<daftykins> ah ongoing drama with my gas company, they finally get the bill right but magically add 10p to the total on the final line - i'm not entertaining that, so i paid them 10p less :P
<knightwise> My ISP seems to have forgotten about me . Havent received a bill this month
<daftykins> \o/
<daftykins> sounds ideal :>
<knightwise> yep , looks like it :Ã )
<daftykins> hmm gonna try and pop to our local tire and exhaust place later and give away some old mountain bike tires for recycling
<daftykins> they open in 45 mins \o/
<knightwise> thats nice of you daftykins
<daftykins> haha
<daftykins> nah nice me is the one that's giving away a load of IT gear for free to the local college i used to work and teach at \o/
<knightwise> daftykins: that is also nice :)
 * knightwise is working at a charity christmass even, washing dishes at a christmass dinner for the poor and lonely people
<knightwise> very rewarding
<daftykins> heh these tires really don't fold up though, so i'm going to struggle for a way to take them there... might just have to sling them around my neck as i cycle over
<daftykins> ah that's very noble!
<knightwise> You will look like chewbacca with his bowcaster belt
<daftykins> hope not, Star Wars isn't my choice ;)
<daftykins> right lets get over there \o/
<knightwise> May the force be with you daftykins
<diplo> Morning all
<knightwise> hey diplo
<daftykins> wahoo \o/ tires rid of
<daftykins> such a horrific number of cars crawling toward town of a morning, so good to be on 2 wheels skipping by them all and squeezing into the place you're headed :P
<knightwise> Cool beans daftykins
<daftykins> :D
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<knightwise> hey brobostigon
<brobostigon> hi knightwise
<foobarry> my dog is called chewbacca :D
<daftykins> :P
<knightwise> https://scontent-amt2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/s526x395/14908281_10154316629782912_234490576626954510_n.jpg?oh=95c2f1287555f1d1866c5fa25e341eac&oe=58D1B3F1
<knightwise> wife in chewbacca tee
 * davmor2 calls the rspca, making a dog chew bacca tut tut tut, shame on you
<daftykins> >:D
<zmoylan-pi> it's cool, he got a spitoon with a picture of a cat on it... :-p
<foobarry> we mostly call him chewie
<davmor2> man it gets worse foobarry has a chewie dog /me redials the rspca with the additional info
<foobarry> my crazy neighbour is complaining about a tree on my property
<foobarry> complained to network rail saying their tree overhangs his property. except it doesn't
<foobarry> last time they cut cut the bushes down and i got burgled the next daty
<foobarry> fortunately my wife caught them and they accepted they can't touch it at its not overhangingin anything, hes just a spiteful old man
<davmor2> foobarry: and you can get off my lawn too
<daftykins> it's annoying when old folks spend their efforts on the wrong things
<foobarry> tell me about it
<foobarry> he flung dog poo on my patio unprovoked
<foobarry> then mr kipling pies
<daftykins> !?
<foobarry> he painted my bricks in the alleyway and back gate
<foobarry> because he didn't like the colour
<daftykins> *facepalm*
<foobarry> he painted MY side of his fence and dripped paint on my new patio stones
<foobarry> he throws sticks with nails in over the fence at my kids and dog
<daftykins> wow
<daftykins> police won't lift a finger i take it?
<foobarry> and he said if i don't see him for three months, its because he's gone in the rapture. nobody else is going because we're all devils apparently (even though we're churchgoers , he's a dot cotton/nel mangle fanatic)
<foobarry> haven't tried. he's 85 and lies for fun
<daftykins> oof
<foobarry> also the 7 mice i caught this week are probably something to do with him
<diplo> Set fire to his house sounds a good idea
<diplo> :)
<foobarry> its a terrace
<daftykins> no doubt! like four-legged drones
<daftykins> i still like diplo's idea
<diplo> Well ignore him as best as possible ( he's old and wont be around for ever ) or... annoy the living hell out of him too, the latter could make things worse though :)
<diplo> As he got no family you can talk to to try and stop it ?
<knightwise> 3fooyou are not kidding
<knightwise> man , having a crazy old fart as a neighbour like that is somethin else :(
<zmoylan-pi> at night slip in and pour weedkiller in pentegram on his lawn... :-P
<daftykins> ooh that's good
<popey> foobarry: my grape vine overhangs next doors garden
<popey> they poke it back over our fence
<zmoylan-pi> get a doorbell that plays o fortuna...
<daftykins> if they'd complain, popey would hear it through the grapevine... *whistle*
<foobarry> since he is retired and crazy his capacity to whinge at network rail and the council about imaginary things is endless
<zmoylan-pi> you need a low level constant ally against him... throw bird seed on his roof... :-P
<foobarry> he doesn't like sycamore seeds flying into his garden so he relentlessly capaigns the council to cut down the ones on the public playing field opposite
<popey> does he live alone?
<foobarry> yes. his son moved to the other side of the world because of the crazy
<foobarry> i wave and say hello but he has an almost split personality with capacity for wickedness
<zmoylan-pi> and use every opportunity to fly a drone in yours and only your garden...
<foobarry> the neighbours on the other side said they had lived there for 30 years and were glad of the respite now that his attention is on us
<zmoylan-pi> 'just checking the gutters'
<foobarry> its not old age making him spiteful as he's always been like it
<popey> :(
<foobarry> renowned letter writer to various local papers etc
<foobarry> he's ok to your face (if you are a man)
<foobarry> he accosted my other neighbours 14yr old daughter at a bus stop with her friends
<foobarry> told her in front of her friends she was going to hell for being a catholic
<popey> how delightful
<foobarry> everybody's going to hell according to him
<foobarry> as i say, a fanatic in a league of his own
<knightwise> Must be very lonely ... going through life like that
<zmoylan-pi> picking on kids is way out... and he remains unpunched?
<foobarry> the plsit personality means he is quite sociable but VERY manipulative
<daftykins> zmoylan-pi's brother is available for hire ;D
<zmoylan-pi> you don't do this for money... you do it because it's right...
<daftykins> well i don't think it'd make anything better
<zmoylan-pi> you make the old fart go nuts fightig an invisible 'enemy' that only he's aware of
<foobarry> i've forgiven him and i'm nice to him but i'm wary of his capacity to do bad things and attempting to control others
<foobarry> because i know he won't stop
<TwistedLucidity> We'll all be old some day. Sounds like he needs to be in a care home.
<foobarry> my mum reckons he's been like it for 40 years
<foobarry> she remembers him from the olden days
<zmoylan-pi> this is not an old thing, this is a control thing, he sounds like a control freak
<foobarry> yes
<foobarry> obviously on meds...sometimes
<zmoylan-pi> i *love* breaking those people...
<zmoylan-pi> first rule 'love thine enemy, it drives them even more nuts'
<foobarry> gonna set up a raspberry pi camera  discretely
<foobarry> hard to get the right angle though
<foobarry> he even took offence to me getting a burgalr alarm
<zmoylan-pi> i'd use wildlife cams in garden... put a bird feeder in for it to watch too...
<diddledan> omg, they ruined it! http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-37904703
<zmoylan-pi> i saw... it's horrible
<davmor2> diddledan: it's because they don't make enough money with the rest of the chunks in
<zmoylan-pi> it's deception
<foobarry> they want to get in the news
<foobarry> they will change it back next week
<foobarry> also, now want chocolate
 * zmoylan-pi moseys to shop in rain for milk for tea...
<popey> I'm off to Germany soon, I'll bring back loads of Toblerone from the airport and sell it on ebay here :D
<diddledan> oh golly, I forgot, it's US election day
<foobarry> today?
<foobarry> when is the result
<popey> 4-5am tomorrow
<foobarry> although we all know the result is guaranteed bad
<popey> could be longer if 'hanging chads' like GWB first election
<diddledan> I've been told to watch pensylvania, ohio, and florida as key states
<foobarry> hanging chads are a euphemism for tricky poos
<diddledan> lmao
<popey> lulz http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-37909299
 * daftykins fights to get his chair back from the cat - and sits down
 * diddledan curls-up on daftykins' lap
<daftykins> * chair breaks
<diddledan> when you realise how huge I am, you'd see how hilarious it is that I would try curling-up on _anyone's_ lap :-p
<diddledan> in other news, cute kitty cuddles ftw!
<zmoylan-pi> the trick is to have a nice cushion on the chair.  the cat will sleep on that.  then you can pick up the cushion and put it on your lap so cat is not too disturbed
<daftykins> ah well i have a whole sofa beside me here that she can claim for her own whilst i'm at the desk :>
<zmoylan-pi> and you can also leave for loo/cup of tea by moving cushion as well
<directhex> daf
<directhex> gah
<daftykins> fy duck
<directhex> daftykins: i have a carrier bag on my desk. my cat *hates* carrier bags. i just crinkle it near her to reclaim any surface
<daftykins> hehe
<diddledan> you big meanie :-p
<popey> hah
<daftykins> must be something about folk with nicks starting 'di' *whistle*
<diddledan> /nick dingleberry
<diddledan> oh wait, that still begins with 'di' >.<
<daftykins> XD
<daftykins> the faciest of palms
<diddledan> :-D
<diddledan> /nick dinosaurdan
<diddledan> >.<
<diddledan> still 'di' :-p
<daftykins> cottoneyedan
<foobarry> what do i want for chrimstas from the in-laws?
<diddledan> foobarry: knickers
<foobarry> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/antsylabs/fidget-cube-a-vinyl-desk-toy ?
<diddledan> err.. pants **
<diddledan> :-p
<daftykins> have them move in next door, whilst the old man is still there
<foobarry> forgot to mention the old man often answers teh door bare chested and hangs his y-fronts in the porch to dry
<daftykins> http://www.raintoday.co.uk/ - umm, it's cooooooming!
<diddledan> gawd
<Laney> might opt to not cycle to the pub quiz later ._.
<daftykins> :D
<foobarry> does anyone know if you lose ssh connections if ASA firewall rules are reloaded?
<diddledan> foobarry: locked yourself out of a cisco?
<foobarry> keep losing ssh connections
<foobarry> suspect its when an ASA reloads changes
<foobarry> ssh connection thru the fw
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: it probably forgets its connection tracking state, and with it your ssh connection?
<MartijnVdS> I've seen that a ton on Linux routers
<foobarry> iptables doesn't though
<foobarry> i reload that all the time
<foobarry> and its not ssh keepliave issues
<MartijnVdS> yeah but isnt "reload" on Cisco "reboot" on other devices?
<foobarry> these are active non idle sessions
<foobarry> thats what i need to find out
<dogmatic69> is it possible to use the "host" machines keyring when sshing to another machine?
<dogmatic69> eg: make the ssh session use keyring on the host... if that makes any sense
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: yes. Just don't forward your agent (it's insecure anyway), and it should pick keys from ~/.ssh/ on the host you shelled into
<dogmatic69> not quite
<MartijnVdS> if you want in-memory/stored keys, you can use something like "keychain"
<dogmatic69> I am tyring to make credential.helper work on the sshed machine
<dogmatic69> which uses gnomekeyring or something, but as I am sshed in it does not work. but my host is also ubuntu
<dogmatic69> sorry credential.helper == git credential.helper
<MartijnVdS> I don't think you can use gnome-keyring without a graphical session
<MartijnVdS> so just use plain ssh-agent ;)
<dogmatic69> nice
<dogmatic69> got it working
<dogmatic69> done: $(ssh-agent); ssh-add
<dogmatic69> prompted for pw and that was it.
<diddledan> https://twitter.com/bobbyllew/status/796018698763038720
<brobostigon> http://www.cyanogenmod.org/blog/cm14-is-landing
<diddledan> has america destroyed the world yet?
<zmoylan-pi> 04:30 tomorrow see you then o/
<davmor2> diddledan: just for you https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0GFRcFm-aY
<diddledan> :-)
<davmor2> diddledan: and hopefully here is trumps anthem https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YgSPaXgAdzE
<diddledan> https://vine.co/v/553MMpAg2Ma
<diddledan> I bet america has the biggest cyber
<diddledan> when I was a teen, "cyber" meant x-rated chat
<zmoylan-pi> hadn't even made scifi books when i was a kid...
<diddledan> "wanna cyber" was a common first utterance on AOL instant messenger
<zmoylan-pi> 1991 for first usage...
<diddledan> early results are in: https://www.donaldjtrump.com/press-releases/archive/Trump%20wins%20by%20landslide
<diddledan> oh wait, https://www.donaldjtrump.com/press-releases/archive/Correction,%20Trump%20arrested%20for%20treason.%20Did%20not%20win%20election.
<diddledan> then there's https://www.donaldjtrump.com/press-releases/archive/I%20have%20the%20best%20web%20developers.%20Everyone%20says%20how%20great%20they%20are
<diddledan> I think I've worked-out the best option: https://twitter.com/GeekNation/status/796060212067078144
<zmoylan-pi> i thought it was buy all the toblerone bars and hope you find a golden ticket for first trip to mars in it...
#ubuntu-uk 2016-11-09
<diddledan> that's a seriously untidy layout: http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2016/11/orange-pi-pc-2
<diddledan> look at the angles of those chips
<zmoylan-pi> i saw someone talking about it mentioning it was done to make it fit in smaller space...
<diddledan> yeah I suspected as much. still fugly tho :-p
<zmoylan-pi> look at it this way, it's the perfect gift for an ocd friend :-D
<diddledan> haha
<zmoylan-pi> it's either that or... https://www.etsy.com/ie/listing/238173010/dalek-r2d2-tshirt-premium-cotton-star
 * diddledan twitches
<zmoylan-pi> it's beautiful, isn't it? :-)
<diddledan> http://www.nytimes.com/elections/forecast/president
<diddledan> there's a 50% chance that Clinton is gonna win
<diddledan> in other words, does anyone have a coin we can toss?
<SebthreeBQM10HD> anyone about?
 * acheronuk is watching the news with growing horror
<SebthreeBQM10HD> acheronuk, yeah indeed, I just woke up again
<SebthreeBQM10HD> looks like Donald Trump is becoming president
<acheronuk> car crash moment, brexit moment - not quite sure there are words for it!
<SebthreeBQM10HD> I just heard on TV
<SebthreeBQM10HD> that the dollear may go down quite soon though
<SebthreeBQM10HD> since traders won't be happy or hwatever, ok that sounds good if pound will be worth more again
<SebthreeBQM10HD> or for a bit :d
<SebthreeBQM10HD> I want to buy some things that base the currenty on dollar or are in
<mapps> im getting one on one spanish lessons yay#
<mapps> :D
<knightwise> morning peeps
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<knightwise> hey brobostigon
<brobostigon> hi knightwise
<daftykins> good morning all \o
<knightwise> hey daftykins
<daftykins> well it was nice knowing 'murica, but that's all done now :P
<knightwise> when you check the internet, everybody speaks out against trump
<brobostigon> i feel very sorry for the us right now.
<knightwise> while half a continent voted for him
<knightwise> either this have does not have internet access , or is to ashamed to speak out in public about their preference
<brobostigon> knightwise: well, some people werent happy with either parties choice of candidate either.
<daftykins> nah it seemed wiser to look at the VPs really :)
<daftykins> i can't say i've been following it much, but it seems like the second voting event after the UK's referendum that's possibly been swung a lot by immigration issues
<brmbrmcar> That is statism
<knightwise> angry old scared babyboomers get what they want
<JamesTait> Good morning all! Happy Wednesday, and happy World Freedom Day! ð
<foobarry> you're joking right?
<JamesTait> Having seen this morning's news, I'd quite like to be free of the world now, thanks.
<foobarry> freedom to elect a fascist i guess
<JamesTait> It's also Chaos Never Dies Day.
<foobarry> "brexit with guns"
<davmor2> Morning all
<TwistedLucidity> Best news I've seen in a long, long time. It's great to have a breath of fresh air and throw out the entrenched & corrupt families
<TwistedLucidity> Trump will not only make America Great Again, he will be there to save us from the Europeans.
<TwistedLucidity> Nope...sorry...I can't keep that up or make it extreme enough to be even vaguely funny
 * TwistedLucidity starts to sob
<SuperMatt> I don't understand this dynesty argument. She was starting her political career before she even knew Bill Clinton. A lot of what she has achieved have been on her own merits
<Nafallo> JamesTait: well yes. this is the last day the world is free? ;-)
<TwistedLucidity> The only good thing I can say is; I don't think Trump is stupid - far from it - and I hope that a lot of what he said was just playing-up for the camera.
<TwistedLucidity> His acceptance speech was (surprisingly) presedential
<foobarry> i'm not even switching on the news for another month
<davmor2> TwistedLucidity: he stole Hillaries
<foobarry> his face is more unbearable than clinton and blair
<SuperMatt> He probably had someone write it for him
<TwistedLucidity> Doesn't mean he has to read it.
<TwistedLucidity> Please surprise me, Mr. Trump. Prove us all wrong.
<TwistedLucidity> Also...IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN SANDERS!
<SuperMatt> He's got advisors pulling his strings right now
<TwistedLucidity> sudo apt purge trump
<TwistedLucidity> No such package. Dangit.
<davmor2> sudo kill -9 trump
<davmor2> No such process
<foobarry> despatching nuclear warheads
<foobarry> if i pay for humble bundle with amazon pay, can it use my gift certs?
<SuperMatt> I should think so
<foobarry> it didn't :(
<foobarry> https://www.humblebundle.com/mobile/board-games-mobile-bundle
<foobarry> might interest some ppl
<popey> foobarry: watch the trailer for Scotland Yard. It's funny.
<popey> 1) American accent, 2) The way he pronounces 'retina'
<foobarry> i have that game irl but haven't played
<foobarry> wife wants to play on saturday
<foobarry> some of the ads made my stomach churn. seem like 80s kids ads
<diddledan> https://ifttt.com/blog/2016/11/the-new-ifttt-is-here
<diddledan> ^^^ does that mean we can't make an "if this then that" with any arbitrary input and output anymore but can only use pre-packaged solutions?
<diddledan> applets suggest that the action and cause are all predefined meaning we can't make it do what we really want
<davmor2> popey: that's not an american accent it's the nottingham twang https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oXaH9dZcR2c
<popey> hah
<diddledan> Katie Hopkins endorses Trump. That's about as much evidence we need to indicate that we're *****
<DJones> Anybody want to start a business building nuclear fallout shelters, the way votes and poll's are going I'm half expecting nuclear war within the next couple of years
<diddledan> who remembers this PoS? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/InterActual_Player
<diddledan> lol: https://twitter.com/sturdyAlex/status/796321018180681729
<DJones> diddledan: http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.2756614.1471542397!/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/article_750/statue.jpg (Dpn't look if you want to keep your breakfast and lunch down)
<diddledan> oh gawd, now we really are ****** https://twitter.com/Tony_Robinson/status/796312162453032960
<diddledan> wow, I think I've found a DVD that makemkv can't rip
 * davmor2 diddledan stop with the lies already ;)
<diddledan> o_O
<davmor2> diddledan: is it by chance a disney one?
<diddledan> nope, it's Spawn Director's Cut
<diddledan> packaged by "Entertainment in Video" by the looks of the copyright
<diddledan> interesting. vlc plays it ok but the title is listed as being 13 hours long, where playing back seems to be at faster than real-time on the timeer output. a few seconds into playback and the counter already reports I'm at 10 minutes
<diddledan> looks to be roughly reporting 10:1 seconds
<blackcrocodile_> !temerut Gene Wolfe - [Book of the New Sun 01-02] - Shadow and Claw (mobi).rar
<lubotu3> blackcrocodile_: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<diddledan> Using a business line for piracy, eh
<zmoylan-pi> i have been tempted to pirate recently... couldn't order in an audio book version as none is available anymore of a favourite book of mine...
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi: yarr
<diddledan> We shall henceforth call you captain jack sparrow
<diddledan> Reminds me. Kira knightly is gorgeous
<zmoylan-pi> more like stumpy mcstump with the wonky leg...
 * diddledan steals stumpy mcstump's wonky leg
<zmoylan-pi> don't you just love getting crappy notifications from apps you don't use and can't uninstall...
<ball> What can't you uninstall?
<zmoylan-pi> google photos
 * diddledan uninstalls zmoylan-pi . quite hard.
 * zmoylan-pi persists and notifies diddledan exaactly 27 minutes after they fall asleep with a loud biddly beepy notification...
<diddledan> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/10/28/windows_atom_tables_popped_by_security_researchers/
#ubuntu-uk 2016-11-10
<diddledan> anti-trump: https://twitter.com/maddowblog/status/796509578926182400
<diddledan> http://imgur.com/a/OuJ3K
<knightwise> morning
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<diplo> Morning all
<JamesTait> Good morning all!  Happy Thursday, and happy Sesame Street Day! ð
<SuperMatt> Now that is a day I can get behind
<SuperMatt> Big Bird for president!
<zmoylan-pi> oscar the grouch for running the military...
<zmoylan-pi> cookie monster for health
<SuperMatt> oh don't be so silly
<SuperMatt> clearly the best candidate for running the military is Grover
<SuperMatt> http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/muppet/images/c/c1/Supergrover.jpg
<zmoylan-pi> oscar practically lives in a bunker already...
<davmor2> JamesTait: can only be https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LXqMzmFSX_4
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: he does now trump is incharge ;)
<zmoylan-pi> i hope it's roomy in there as a few more residents will be trying to get access
<knightwise> Morning :)
 * knightwise hopes interwebs are less depressing today
<zmoylan-pi> time to break out your emergency terabyte drive of kittens...
<TwistedLucidity> Yesterday was a bit of a Hobson's choice to be honest. The best candidate got shafted by his own party
<foobarry> "his"
<foobarry> oh i see
<foobarry> from all acounts it seems people didn't have the stomach to vote hillary even though they knew it was potentially a trump enabler by not doing so. i can understand that
<knightwise>  I think Unity Sucks , KDE is better
 * knightwise desperately tries to change the subject
<zmoylan-pi> emacs... the misunderstood os...
<knightwise> VI , the only way to Quit it is to get a girlfriend
<zmoylan-pi> nano... because you loved wordstar...
<knightwise> The best linux distro is OSX
<zmoylan-pi> os/2: we haven't gone away you know...
<knightwise> Stallman, the new Staln
<knightwise> Stalin
<zmoylan-pi> the nsa and gchq: proving stallman right
<TwistedLucidity_> Ah good, my other self has finally quit
<zmoylan-pi> which one has the goatee? #justaskingnoreason
<TwistedLucidity_> It's not me with the split personality....it appears to be my network :-(
<zmoylan-pi> so... an evil network...
<TwistedLucidity_> Meh, Windows VPN; can't get much worse
<zmoylan-pi> ms bob vpn... coming soon...
<knightwise> TwistedLucidity_: you are just bipolar :p
<knightwise> or schizo
<TwistedLucidity_> Anyone trying to run VoIP phones over Virgin Media?
<daftykins> might be better to ask the actual question
<BigRedS> I have used a VoIP phone over Virgin Media, it didn't take very much tryingf
<AtroStarz> Complete failure to get Ubuntu mentioned on the desktop: Where is Canonical's media Dept. ?
<AtroStarz> https://www.theguardian.com/technology/askjack/2016/nov/10/which-desktop-pc-should-i-buy-for-working-from-home
<popey> hahaha, Jack Schofield is a massive Windows fanboy.
<daftykins> i think the persons machine should be upgraded for cheap rather than just 'cure' it with a whole new desktop ;)
<popey> I didn't read it, I just know jack only writes about microsoft
<TwistedLucidity_> SIP services seemed to go down for ~1 hour
<TwistedLucidity_> Working now
<TwistedLucidity_> Start spamming him: "Dear Jack, What would be the best choice for <insert GNU/Linux distro> desktop? I also want to do some gaming, so a decent GPU is a must."
<TwistedLucidity_> In fairness to "Jack", the user seems to have specific software needs that require Windows (i.e. MS Office).
<TwistedLucidity_> If it's professional use with plugins; no, LibreOffice will not do it.
<TwistedLucidity_> Although in that case, why no just ask Internal IT?
<TwistedLucidity_> Whut? "A PC is more likely to crash if it runs out of memory than if it runs out of processing power."
<TwistedLucidity_> Oh...wait a minute....
<daftykins> TwistedLucidity_: well if gaming was on the cards, Linux wouldn't be the choice
<TwistedLucidity_> popey: Is that our regular drive-by Canoncial Castigater?
<TwistedLucidity_> daftykins: Every game I want to play runs on GNU/Linux. \o/
<daftykins> then you're in the minority
<TwistedLucidity_> I'm oppressed!
<daftykins> wat
<TwistedLucidity_> Rather bad semi-bad Blackadder reference
<popey> TwistedLucidity_: yes
<TwistedLucidity_> IIRC more top titles are coming out with GNU/Linux support (on Steam at any rate).
<TwistedLucidity_> popey: Ah. Explains much
<TwistedLucidity_> Such a shame Steam boxes died a death.
<popey> I don't have enough time to play all the steam games I have on my linux box :)
<daftykins> i saw them in shops in the US, just a bit weird really
<popey> I have 301 games, of which 187 run on Linux.
<popey> Yeah, I use a steam link, rather than a full steam box
<popey> Love the steam controllers.
<TwistedLucidity_> I really wish I could get the time to play Kerbal.
<TwistedLucidity_> And Trine
<TwistedLucidity_> And Fex
<TwistedLucidity_> And...
<daftykins> mmm tried one, just prefer an xbox one pad though
<popey> I never got into KSP
<popey> yeah, I like the xbox ones, but the steam one is so much better
<TwistedLucidity_> I crash. A lot.
<popey> hah
<daftykins> well, i don't agree - also there's lacking game support
<TwistedLucidity_> It's not at parity, but it's the chicken/egg thing.
<TwistedLucidity_> Vulkan could put a cat amongst the pigeons /IF/ it's faster on GNU/Linunx.
<TwistedLucidity_> Gamers hold allegance to one thing - FPS.
<popey> I've found every game I need works with it.
<daftykins> well it doesn't need to be faster, it just needs to start by being equal and widely available
<TwistedLucidity_> It's still in development, no? And you have to wait for Unity et al to provide support too.
<daftykins> a Linux build you mean? no idea, all i know is i snagged the latest 'Doom' game demo which has Vulkan support in
<popey> Speaking of Unity.. I have been playing with that, it's fun.
<popey> made a little multi-player networked game
<TwistedLucidity_> Sweet
<daftykins> i feel that although it enables the masses to make things, it's mostly bloated output that'd run better if done well
<popey> nice that I can do that on Linux, and spit out Windows, Linux and OSX binaries from it
<daftykins> that's quite neat
<TwistedLucidity_> Soooo....another story about Munich ditching F/OSS.
<TwistedLucidity_> http://www.techrepublic.com/article/open-source-pioneer-munich-debates-report-that-suggests-abandoning-linux-for-windows-10/
<popey> again?
<daftykins> hmm, bit of a mistake to give the choice - as people will always favour the path of least resistance
<foobarry> github makes it so easy to fix code in real life projects :D
<foobarry> for a non coder
<diddledan> the only thing I don't like about github is that you need to use github if you want to contribute to a project on github. e.g. you can't fork to a gitlab instance and create a PR from there back to github
<foobarry> fair do's though
<diplo> anyone use restructured text ?
<diplo> rst format ?
<diddledan> diplo: I've done some minor tweaks to the .net documentation which is in rst, but I don't really understand the format
<diplo> heh, I'm ok at it ( wrote a lot! ) but just wondering if I can do code stuff ie :: inside of a list
<diplo> Can't work it out atm
<diplo> so basically have 1. lots of text here and follows with an example of code inside the list ::
<diplo> hahaha found it, love it that everytime I ask for help I work it out! been looking for ages :D
<diddledan> I find sometimes putting into words what you're struggling with can help you think of better terms to google for
<diddledan> there's a school of thought that you only really understand something when you are able to describe it to someone else. I think that's a similar idea..
<diplo> Well if you come across it in the future, need to double tab the code inside of the list :)
<diddledan> davmor2: transcoding the movie worked
<diddledan> I did it with handbrake in the end
<daftykins> o0
<diddledan> daftykins: I had a disc that makemkv wouldn't recognise the main title from
<diddledan> it was running at approx 113 fps, which I'm assuming is why makemkv wouldn't see it
<daftykins> XD
<daftykins> was that not a standard film then?
<diddledan> which is 29.97 (base ntsc rate) * 2 (to make it ntsc field rate) * 1.9
<diddledan> it was a film, but I think the frame rate was on purpose to prevent copying
<kvd_> awkward
 * kvd_ has just rendered a vid but it's massive like a few hundred meg for about 4 minutes
<daftykins> smells like 4K
 * diddledan sniffs
<diddledan> pooo
<diddledan> stinky
<davmor2> diddledan: \o/ did the resultant video work though
<daftykins> aww yeah, ripped a bunch of music for a client again and instead of taking a drive up there, i can just SCP it to his file server direct :D yay 10Mb upload \o/
<diddledan> `o/
<diddledan> \o/
<brobostigon> anyone know where i can get libwww-ssl-dev for 16.04 please. i have hit a deadend.
<daftykins> ooh your poor arm
<daftykins> !find libwww-ssl-dev xenial
<lubotu3> Found: W:, W:, W:, W:, W:, W:, W:, W:, W:, W: (and 17 others) http://packages.ubuntu.com/search?keywords=libwww-ssl-dev&searchon=names&suite=xenial&section=all
<diddledan> wat
<diddledan> W: and W: and W:???
<daftykins> all the W
<brobostigon> odd.
<diddledan> brobostigon: what package are you hoping it relates to?
<diddledan> libwww-perl exists
<diddledan> afaik all libwww-* packages are perl-related
<brobostigon> i am trying to compile https://ryzomcore.atlassian.net/wiki/display/RC/Build+Source+on+Linux and said is a dependency
<diddledan> yeah those docs look very outdated
<brobostigon> i cant find anyhting newer, hence me trying to work the problem out.
<diddledan> try without the libwww dependency at all
<diddledan> i.e. try installing everything else and run the compile to see if it's missing anything
<brobostigon> good diea, yes.
<brobostigon> let me try.
<daftykins> http://dev.ryzom.com/boards/17/topics/1979
<daftykins> nevermind that link is useless
<diddledan> dev.ryzom.com looks to be irrelevant too
<diddledan> as in the whole site there
<diddledan> seems they've moved their issue tracker to https://bitbucket.org/ryzom/ryzomcore/issues?status=new&status=open
<brobostigon> yes.
<daftykins> a mate used to work at atlassian
<daftykins> before moving to the dark side permanently and *gasp* being employed by Apple
<brobostigon> ah, oh dear.
<daftykins> blech, natwest Guernsey making all account holders fill out CDD (client due diligence) forms
<diddledan> what're they?
<daftykins> essentially a 10 page document where you have to tell them all the stuff they already know, like provide your identity, home address, etc
<daftykins> anti money laundering test exercise basically
<diddledan> so why don't they do that to people on the mainland?
<daftykins> well over here we have some of the same banks as you guys, but due to the fact we're a wholly different place with different laws and outside the EU, they have to run separately
<daftykins> for example, when i went to Uni i went in the nearest NatWest and was told that i could get more info out of the ATM than they could do in-branch, so i had to open an account there to do most things
<daftykins> was really quite the hassle
<diddledan> I can imagine
<daftykins> it's kinda funny though because when NatWest UK enabled android pay a bit ago, it was auto there for me - also i see the online banking system behaves the exact same way, so they're all the same systems i'm sure
<daftykins> just probably pointing to a different database server, if that
<diddledan> it all goes to the mothership :-)
<brobostigon> a led zeppelin saized mothership :)
<brobostigon> sized*
<kvd_> How does it folks
<davmor2> It does well
<zmoylan-pi> well apart from trump, brexit, and putin making threats to eastern europe of course...
<diddledan> and the toblerone. damn that toblerone!
<popey> ooh, dirt 3 free on humble bundle https://www.humblebundle.com/store/dirt-3-complete-edition-free-game
<kvd> >.<
 * kvd knows nothing of the toblerone thing
<daftykins> diddledan: hear hear!
<daftykins> or is it here here, oh well
<popey> aptanet: hey, about your nextcloud box, are you running the original sd card that came with it?
<zmoylan-pi> diddledan, i saw toblerones in shop today on special... sitting there like nothing was wrong...
#ubuntu-uk 2016-11-11
<diplo> Morning all
<davmor2> Morning all
<JamesTait> Good morning all! Happy Friday, and happy Armistice Day! ð
<davmor2> JamesTait: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u9Dg-g7t2l4 but more important https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VOgFZfRVaww and then finally https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8Vfp48laS8
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<kvd> Hi hi ^_^
<popey> hello
<kvd> I love how randomly my client has decided to show up your name in aubergine
 * kvd figures out how to blame popey
<popey> is that good?
<kvd> absolutely wonderful.
<popey> :)
<kvd> ahem...
<kvd> s/blame/praise/
<popey> ofc
<awilkins> How can I remove or disable pulseaudio devices in the sound prefs?
<awilkins> I have a bunch of HDMI audio outputs that are not used but show up as selections whereas all I want is selected outputs on my soundcard + 1 USB output
<awilkins> THere used to be a hardware tab in the sound settings that let you do this but AFAICT Gnome removed it because it was useful to someone
<daftykins> :D
<popey> awilkins: use pavucontrol?
<awilkins> Doesn't make the devices disappear in sound prefs
<popey> shame
<daftykins> so is it solely that you don't want the long list to scroll through?
<awilkins> Yes
<daftykins> jeez
<davmor2> awilkins: take a look at /etc/pulse/default.pa and /etc/modprobe.d/alsa-base.conf
<davmor2> awilkins: don't know if they'll help
<diddledan> yoohoo knew of the hack back in 2014! http://www.macrumors.com/2016/11/11/filing-yahoo-aware-hack-2014/
<diddledan> methinks the buyout is gonna fall flat
<daftykins> nasty
<daftykins> although i thought that was widely known
<diddledan> there's a note at the bottom of that article that verizon were asking for a 1bn discount, but I'm thinking that might go up
<diddledan> it wasn't known, but was suggested
<daftykins> i read something on the Tesco Bank one this morning, seems they're not sure on the method yet
<m0nkey_> right in the feels.. https://i.reddituploads.com/9c65a99fcdc446b29d4327bbb48af904?fit=max&h=1536&w=1536&s=1124d56624b483332e3ee94674a08160
<diddledan> I like the concept behind this; it works for any kind of abusive harassment I would imagine. http://boingboing.net/2016/11/11/how-to-intervene-if-you-witnes.html
<daftykins> maybe you could just influence atmospheric attributes such that that guys lightning bolts no longer manifest
<daftykins> https://www.amazon.co.uk/Galaxy-Milk-Chocolate-Advent-Calendar/dp/B01KHDMW6E/
<daftykins> crikey
<daftykins> http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2016/11/for-five-months-spotify-has-badly-abused-users-storage-drives/
<daftykins> don't use streaming music services myself, but ouch
<zmoylan-pi> thank goodness i don't use ssd's OR spotify... :-P
<zmoylan-pi> but wow for abusing users hardware
<daftykins> well talk of SSD lifespans is always overblown - and you're the one suffering from not using one :)
<zmoylan-pi> i like my blinky leds... :-)
<daftykins> huh? were you under the impression that having one stops you from seeing a disk activity LED?
<zmoylan-pi> but it wouldn't flash pleasently for a long time if i used ssd!
<daftykins> that's the whole point of the benefit!
<zmoylan-pi> i'll stick with spinning rust for capacity...
<diddledan> and think of all the kids that will never know the joy of hearing the heads jump about the disk?!
<daftykins> but you don't need capacity for the OS and software...
<zmoylan-pi> it's how i know it's quiet at 3am when i can hear the hard drive in my laptop spinning
<daftykins> *sigh* ah well, can lead the horse to water... :D
<daftykins> i can hear the cat walk down the stairs at those times!
<zmoylan-pi> good luck installing an ssd in a horse :-D
<daftykins> hey it's easy, just the PETA folks chasing me to worry about
<zmoylan-pi> you should see the threats i got when i installed a full height 5.25" drive in a pony... :-P
<daftykins> NEIGH chance they said
<zmoylan-pi> well if anyone needs a suit for an interview in run up to christmas... :-P https://www.opposuits.ca/suits/christmas-suits.html
<diddledan> dang; http://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12433/10653639/ron-dennis-fighting-for-mclaren-future
 * zmoylan-pi resets dumbphone after some data went corrupt... first reset in 3 years... not too bad...
<diddledan> :-o
<diddledan> corruption is BAD!
<zmoylan-pi> thankfully i had a backup file from a few months back.  i also made a backup of the corrupt data and i should be able to extract any missing data from the older backup from the newer one with a little care
<zmoylan-pi> but i actually reached for my spare even dumber nokia asha 201 just in case i couldn't make it work and found it had run flat as i left it on and not charging for a few months...
#ubuntu-uk 2016-11-12
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<daftykins> \o
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<daftykins> hmm i have broken VDPAU on my old retired HTPC and can't work out what's up
<zmoylan-pi> but if it's retired, does it matter?
<daftykins> yeah, 'cause i have a few the same up at a clients, so i'm using mine as the guinea pig for a fresh install
<zmoylan-pi> so... not quiet retired then...
<daftykins> well it was for me :> i brought it down from the shelf of abandonment!
<zmoylan-pi> no no, the shelf of abandonment is one step up from floor of despair which is itself one step up from centre of recycling...
<zmoylan-pi> it still had a ways to go before retirement...
<daftykins> i feel like it's as simple as the right lib in the wrong place but i've no idea what's meant to be where
<zmoylan-pi> ah... debugging stuff that's so old its considered obsolete... it's like archeology... you need a hat and a whip to fight off the dust bunnies
<daftykins> it's actually current on all software, it's just VDPAU broken
<diddledan> this year refuses to quit! http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-37957088
<popey> yeah :(
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/6xsl6mjebh1a7ar/20161111_140640_resized.jpg?dl=0 client just phoned from down in Spain, the guys installed non waterproof MDF skirting boards - that's what happens when they get wet
<diddledan> daftykins: dang
<diddledan> that looks bad
<daftykins> pretty bad workmanship indeedy
<daftykins> wooden floors, so you could just mop once and see the whole lot expanding
<daftykins> like a diddled mac ;D
<daftykins> o0
<popey> ouch
<penguin42> daftykins: That's pretty impressive
<daftykins> i'm impressed with how he managed to discover that they're wrong
<foobarry> went for an eye test today. "and when was your last test sir". ermmmm, i haven't had one before
<diddledan> why isn;t the drink bourbon made of bourbon biscuits?
<penguin42> foobarry: Did you find the need?
<penguin42> diddledan: Or indeed the other way around?
<diddledan> I really need to do an eye test, too. it's been 4 years since my last confession.
<foobarry> i'm in my 40s and my mum has glaucoma , and so did my dad
<penguin42> ah
<foobarry> and i've been getting (perhaps smartphone induced) eyeball pains
<diddledan> I make 34 in March
<foobarry> i was reading the lines
<penguin42> foobarry: So they tried to do the puff-test pressure stuff on you?
<foobarry> trying to do the bottom one
<foobarry> yep, photos of eyeball etc
<foobarry> managed to read the bottom line..
<diddledan> \o/
<foobarry> then she said the top one was the 20/20 vision one
<diddledan> I can't do that even with lenses
<foobarry> turns out my eyeballs are fine
 * penguin42 hates that pressure test; they normally have to try 3 or 4 times
<foobarry> however the muscles get tired sometimes
<foobarry> i probably need a bigger phone next time or to use it less
<daftykins> penguin42: ah yeah that's annoying
<foobarry> i don't need glasses yet but as the years roll on, i will inevitably need reading glasses
<daftykins> i used to get made to do the peripheral vision dome test which used to run from floppy, ouch
<diddledan> daftykins: floppy?!
 * diddledan flops
<foobarry> she looked inside my eyeball with a torch which was a bit intimate
<foobarry> her face about 1inc from mine
<Myrtti> my eyesight is actually getting better as I'm getting older
<penguin42> foobarry: Oh yeh you get to know your opticians forehead well
<daftykins> diddledan: don't copy that!
<daftykins> that's when you hope both of you have good breath
<foobarry> Myrtti: long->short crossover?
<diddledan> I've got a floater in one of my eyes. I notice it when I look down and then back-up occasionally
<foobarry> the funny thing is my wife came into the optician with me.
<foobarry> because she didn't really trust me to actually go ahead
<diddledan> foobarry: bless her. she must like you :-)
<foobarry> because i'd waited 41 years before having one
<foobarry> its not quite dentist levels of scary but i was apprenshive of hearing something permanent
 * penguin42 is really going to have to do a dentist sometime
 * diddledan keeps quiet about doing dentists
<foobarry> i did that last month
<foobarry> 2016 is my year of getting things done
<foobarry> even bought new mattresses for the bed and bought a piano
<diddledan> I need a whole new bed
<penguin42> foobarry: Lets just put it this way; I've put off dentists as long as you've put off eye tests
<foobarry> oof
<foobarry> i would have no face left
 * penguin42 isn't sure he has much
<daftykins> i had a reminder card from mine actually, hmm
<diddledan> my sister is in the strictly come dancing audience tonight
<daftykins> ooh-err
<daftykins> can't stand such types o' TV :P
<zmoylan-pi> i was once a phone a friend on irelands version of who wants to be a millionaire... but the person chose a different person when he used his phone a friend
<daftykins> !
<daftykins> did they then lose? )
<daftykins> * :)
<zmoylan-pi> yes, and i knew the answer to the question that was asked...
<zmoylan-pi> where is the rosetta stone? 1) new york, 2) london, 3) paris, 4) cairo
<diddledan> cairo
<zmoylan-pi> after the british took it off napolean? your museum will never give it up for that alone
<diddledan> it belongs to the world
<zmoylan-pi> absolutely but it will always sit in a british museum
<Myrtti> I cried when I first saw it in London
<zmoylan-pi> and now with 3d scanning and 3d printing soon any museum will be able to knock up a replica
<daftykins> at a stone?
<zmoylan-pi> it represents science and knowledge recreating our ability to understand a dead language.  a real achievement
<diddledan> a famous person once said "Human knowledge belongs to the world."
<zmoylan-pi> then we invented copyrights...
<diddledan> he also said "This isn't a game! In the real world, when you kill people they dieâfor real!"
<Gargoyle> Any kernel compilers online?
<penguin42> people? programs? shell scripts?
<Gargoyle> people! :-)
<zmoylan-pi> shell scripts are programs too!! :-)
<Gargoyle> Getting an error from editconfigs, and google is a black hole
<penguin42> and the error is?
<Gargoyle> gisting.....
<Gargoyle> https://gist.github.com/gargoyle/00adfb96a6ca61cde547e4c5310f2651
<penguin42> oh, easy
<penguin42> install libncurses-devel
<penguin42> you're missing the curses.h header
<Gargoyle> libcurses-acaml-dev ?
<penguin42> sorry, it's libncurses-dev on ubuntu (possibly libncurses5-dev)
<penguin42> no, not acaml
<Gargoyle> I don't get that as an option (touble tapping tab)
<Gargoyle> *double
<penguin42> what distro and version are you on?
<Gargoyle> 16.10
<penguin42> you don't have    libncurses5-dev ?
<penguin42> (wth apt-cache search curses.h is just listing ncurses-hexedit)
<Gargoyle> normal ubuntu
<Gargoyle> and apparently, 0% battery!
<penguin42> pedal faster!
<Gargoyle> damn this retina display... missed the "n"
<daftykins> ugh macs
<Gargoyle> hmmm
<Gargoyle> Seems to be working now... thanks! :-)
<Gargoyle> Maybe I'll find some stuff to make this mac better! ;-)
<zmoylan-pi> can you install os/2 on a mac? :-)
<daftykins> that one looked mighty google-able by the way Gargoyle
<Gargoyle> ha ha
<daftykins> no i'm serious
<penguin42> Gargoyle: So if you ever find something saying it's missing a header just find which package has the header
<Gargoyle> penguin42: will do
 * diddledan googles daftykins
<diddledan> Quite hard.
<zmoylan-pi> it's irc, you're supposed to bing him...
<diddledan> https://youtu.be/bbpztC6GHqw
<diddledan> I'm not sure I've ever googled with bing
<diddledan> If you're never seen him, scott hanselman from microsoft does fun presentations/talks about .net
<diddledan> You've**
 * diddledan googles zmoylan-pi with bing
 * zmoylan-pi sets gopher with rabies on diddledan 
<diddledan> :-(
<diddledan> Sadface
<zmoylan-pi> thank goodness it's been eliminated in uk and ireland...
<diddledan> Gophers?
<zmoylan-pi> rabies
<diddledan> Aha
 * diddledan gophers zmoylan-pi with nutscrape 1.0
<zmoylan-pi> took a few years over 100 years ago iirc
<diddledan> Netscape few
<diddledan> Ftw
<diddledan> Netscape is gonna beat microsoft
<zmoylan-pi> i kept using netscape 4.something or other long after they stopped development
<zmoylan-pi> well when they released their code as open source it did help spur the development of firefox... which broke ms's lock on the browser market
<diddledan> Firefox still uses the ns prefix on all it's function names
<diddledan> Not to be confused with Apple's ns prefix
<daftykins> g'night \o
<zmoylan-pi> see, i told you bing would work :-)
<diddledan> I got an email from mozilla yesterday saying they're working on big things for firefox called "quantum"
<zmoylan-pi> it jumps into the body of other browsers? oh boy...
<diddledan> Haha
<brobostigon> could someone higlight me please.
<diddledan> brobostigon: no
<brobostigon> thank diddledan :)
<brobostigon> thanks*
<diddledan> I said no
<diddledan> Oh, dammit
<diddledan> :-p
<diddledan> You tricked me!
<zmoylan-pi> don't tell him your name diddledan
<brobostigon> :)
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi: you mean dan?
<diddledan> Oh ffs
<brmbrmcar> play nicely now
<diddledan> brmbrmcar: they keep tricking me! :-(
<brmbrmcar> awww
<brmbrmcar> Don't be mean to diddledan
#ubuntu-uk 2016-11-13
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<knightwise> hey brobostigon
<brobostigon> hi knightwise
<knightwise> what are you up to this morning ?
<brobostigon> voluntary job to go to 11am till 3pm.
<knightwise> hmm on a sunday ? :(
<brobostigon> yes.
<knightwise> I'm cramming away on my chromebook a little.
<knightwise> seeing how much fun you can have with a 200 euro machine
<brobostigon> knightwise: :)
<knightwise> and there is something delightfully wrong with running opera with its default Vpn client on a chromebook :)
<brobostigon> lolz
<ikonia> as I recall there are some keen gamers in here, I'm trying to hunt down a wireless arcade stick, like the old wildcard type device, even better, a double, anyone ever used/found one
<ikonia> actually, wasn't called the wildcard
<ikonia> thats the wrong name
<popey> ikonia: to play with games in steam or other? (like emulators or whatever)?
<popey> ikonia: http://www.jasenscustoms.com/ come recommended
<popey> (not currently in stock)
<ikonia> popey: thank you, non-steam games, emulation mostly
<popey> I ended up buying a picade to do that kind of thing
<popey> which comes with a reasonable joystick and 6 buttons
<ikonia> so this is all being powered from my pi
<ikonia> but my pi is hidden out of sight, and I want to play some classic arcade games with the full on arcade stick....but wireless
<popey> ah
<ikonia> looks just what I'm after actually, hard to get all the info on it as it's out of stock it seems most of the site is just empty about it
<popey> i recently bought an 8bitdo SNES30 controller
<popey> (not what you're looking for, I know)
<ikonia> well, it is too
<popey> They do a lot of different controllers
<ikonia> I was trying to find proper wireless snes controllers
<ikonia> ended up with logitech junk
<popey> I found it near impossible to get it working with bluetooth on linux
<ikonia> oooh I like a challenge :)
<popey> so I ended up plugging the USB cable in, which makes it appear as a joystick
<popey> mame "just works" with it in that mode
<ikonia> yeah, usb would kill me, due to the location of the pi
<popey> can't have a long usb cable?
<popey> I mean, I know that's shit, but hey ho :)
<ikonia> it would be quite an effort to run that, plug it, unplug it when done etc etc
<ikonia> possible, but not first choice
<popey> right
<ikonia> 8bitdo look nice device, love the usa snes and jap famicon controllers
<ikonia> they where always my favourite
<ikonia> https://github.com/retropie/retropie-setup/wiki/Setting-up-an-8bitdo-Bluetooth-controller
<ikonia> very well documented too
<popey> yeah, and they do firmware updates and stuff
<popey> ooh, not seen that page
<popey> will give that a go
<ikonia> looks like the key is matching the frequency to the firmware
<ikonia> (without reading in depth)
<popey> yeah
<popey> if I got this working, I'd probably attach a pi to the TV in the lounge and use that for emulation stuff
<ikonia> pretty much what I've just done
<popey> hmm, very tempting
<ikonia> be nice to have a stick to play mortal kombat and street fighter 2 though,
<popey> I have a micro sd card in the picade which has everything I ever want to play on it, I can just duplicate that and put it in another pi on the TV
<popey> hmmm, good plans
<popey> I think this could be a go-er
<ikonia> it's almost too easy
<popey> yeah
<popey> the only problem for me will be if I have enough HDMI ports :) #firstworldproblem
<ikonia> i just upgraded my amp in the last 4 weeks, so I now have 8 inputs :)
<popey> nice
<ikonia> I saw this problem coming
<zmoylan-pi> and not 11? :-P
<popey> i don't have a big room for decent audio
<popey> so have a sound bar on my xmas list
<ikonia> ahhh thats probably the only thing I do like about my house is my living room, it's great for audio/TV
<popey> nice :)
<ikonia> so I'll make the most of it
<ikonia> while hating the rest
<popey> hah
<ikonia> but it's all about offset/compromise of course
<popey> ok, now trying to think of reasons not to just do this now
<popey> as it's sunday
<ikonia> you won't
<ikonia> I tried
<popey> I have a spare pi 3 laying around
<popey> haha
<popey> right, thanks :)
<ikonia> it took my 8 minutes to set it up and get it working just nice, the rest of the time has been looking for a controller I like
<ikonia> I'm sure you can invest 8 minutes
<popey> already on it
<ikonia> 7:30 and counting
<popey> will take more time dding the sd than anything else
<ikonia> I did it on am mac and I was shocked how quick it was
<ikonia> approx 1 minutes onto a 128mb micro sd
<ikonia> never seen it that quick
<ikonia> although maybe I'm used to linux support of SD readers sucking
<ikonia> so to use one with good support in the OS seems a treat
<popey> this is a 32GB one that is full of roms
<ikonia> I've got quite a few emulators going and wanted to store roms for quite a few setups
<ikonia> didn't want to do it over nfs
<ikonia> so 128gb seemed pretty cheap and easy
<popey> wowzers
<popey> thats a lot
<ikonia> I think the whole lot comes in at around 85GB
<ikonia> snes/nes/mega/master system/neo/mame/c64/amiga
<popey> ah bum, turns out the one in my retropie is indeed 64
 * popey adds another 64 to the cart
<ikonia> I like your attitude
<popey> hmm
<popey> nothing on telly screen
<popey> changed hdmi_safe=1 but still nothing
<popey> it's up, I can ssh into it over wifi
<popey> \o/ hdmi port oddity
<ikonia> Hmmm I used to have that on an old tv
<ikonia> it just never synced...ever
<ikonia> luckily I changed the TV before I actually needed it to be working so never had to have the full fight
<popey> all working
<popey> just need to setup bluetooth thing now
<ikonia> exciting
<ikonia> watching your bluetooth situation as my digital guinee pig
<popey> :)
<popey> doing a dist-upgrade first as haven't done that for a while
<popey> it didnt find the snes30 initially, so doing this to see if that fixes it
<popey> glad I setup mac address thing on my router so I know the IP of this thing when it has no display
<popey> also, need to sort the aspect ratio out, it's drawing a 4:3 box on my 16:9 telly
<popey> which will be fine in game but in the uI I'd expect it to be right
<popey> taking ages, i think the wifi on the pi is a bit tardy
 * popey unloads the washing machine while that does its thing
<popey> will have to finish this later, kids dragging me out of the house to go pokemon hunting
<popey> ikonia: well, it found the device and associated.. so that's a step forward :)
<ikonia> good good
<ikonia> you are my canary in the cage as I hover above the "buy" button
<popey> bah, it's really ropey
<popey> like, it connected but can't see the controller in emulationstation
<popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/23471231/
<popey> barfs when pairing
<popey> exobuzz: you managed to get an 8bitdo controller paired with retropie?
<popey> ah, looks like https://github.com/RetroPie/RetroPie-Setup/issues/1213
<popey> \o/ success
<popey> problem is how do you do insert coin in mame?
<popey> i think i need a bluetooth keyboard as well as the controller
<ikonia> you can map auto coin insert
<ikonia> I used to do that in many years gone by
<ikonia> must still be possible
<popey> found my wireless keyboard
<exobuzz> popey, yep. I have 3 of them
<exobuzz> popey, https://github.com/retropie/retropie-setup/wiki/Setting-up-an-8bitdo-Bluetooth-controller
<popey> finally got it working, booting with START+R
<exobuzz> yeah. you have to power on in the right mode
<popey> ya, used that, it was a bit flaky in places
<popey> hm, no audio
<Spearo> join
<exobuzz> popey, on retropie ? hdmi or jack ?
<popey> hdmi
<popey> i think i previously had it configured for my picades, so had audio going over the jack
<popey> need to tell it to go over hdmi now it's in the telly
<popey> pretty neat that I can ssh in, and run the config tool to tell retropie to use hdmi for audio out
<popey> \o/ Introducing Sam to some classic arcade games like Marble Madness :)
<penguin42> how does he like them?
<popey> well, he's taken the controller from me and is now playing Fifa on the megadrive
<popey> so my idea of playing games myself is out the window
<popey> when it first started he went "WOW! These graphics are terrible"
<popey> I did point out this was 20 years ago, 10 years before he was even born
<diddledan> megadrive graphics are bad?!
<popey> his reference point is fifa 2017
<diddledan> we were spoilt with megadrives as kids!
<popey> i never had any consoles as a kid
<diddledan> they were so advanced that I didn't ever have one
<diddledan> I had to go round a friend's to play with one
<exobuzz> marble madness is great - megadrive version is the best home conversion too I think
<ali1234> megadrive graphics were bad compared to their contemporaries, yes
<diddledan> megadrive was the last popular cartridge console AFAICT
<diddledan> after that we had PSX
<ali1234> N64
<ali1234> the snes was also released later and outsold the genesis
<diddledan> fair dinkum then :-)
<diddledan> perhaps I was just in a backwards town :-p
<ali1234> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_game_consoles#Home_game_consoles
<zmoylan-pi> megadrive graphics were decades beyond my 8bit spectrum yet when i installed an emulator on my brothers pc a decade back his kids were all over it till he deleted the emulator as he needed to use the pc for work... jetpac was the favourite game...
<diddledan> emulators are awesome
<exobuzz> <3 spectrum  - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-kkzl2foaQ / https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_iXpKALQeQ
<exobuzz> mazing stuff from the demo scene
<diddledan> the demo scene passed me by
<zmoylan-pi> it was great at the end of the spectrum era when every magazine had a tape on the cover with old full games...
<exobuzz> hmm i have to disagree - towards the end, the magazines were so thin. I would have preferred content over tapes etc (but the tapes were good)
<exobuzz> I guess it was inevitable - and the speccy mags like your sinclair did well to last so long
<zmoylan-pi> people are still developing games for it... it's a solid little machine... :-)
<zmoylan-pi> not much in the way of commercial releases mind...
<exobuzz> the quality of the homebrew games is suberb though of course
<zmoylan-pi> a single programmer could understand the whole machine from top to bottom and write a piece of code to maximise it's use
<popey> that video is amazing
 * zmoylan-pi is ripping audio version of yes minister to mp3s so is waiting before playing it...
<zmoylan-pi> 12 episodes on 6 cds... which will all fit on one cd once ripped to mp3...
<popey> amazing what they can do with the z80 and no gpu
<zmoylan-pi> were they're going, they don't need no gpu... :-)
<popey> i just keep looking at it and puzzling how they did it
<exobuzz> the first video is "no flicker" version - this one is how it looks on a tv I guess https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_jmXzROb2l8
<exobuzz> lots of switching between two images etc to get extra colours etc
<exobuzz> impressive tricks though - and lots of changing colour on every scanline etc
<popey> yeah
#ubuntu-uk 2017-11-06
<MooDoo> howdy all
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<MooDoo> morning brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo
<MooDoo> how are you brobostigon ?
<brobostigon> not bad, and you?
<zmoylan-samj3> morning mammals
<MooDoo> brobostigon: yeah good thanks
<diplo> Morning all
<daftykins> \o good morn
<zmoylan-samj3> o/
<daftykins> there are folk working on my house again \o/
<diplo> Not good... but hey :) stag weekend has ruined me
<daftykins> ooh-err
<daftykins> diplo: was it your own?
<diplo> Nah, not sure I'd go through that marriage thing again
<diplo> A friends, although he's 10 years younger than me and so are all his friends, I'm 41, the youngest there was 26/27
<diplo> They were all ruined :)
<daftykins> tsk tsk
<bigcalm> o/
<daftykins> morn
<diplo> Good experience though, in my day we didn't do these abroad stag do's - was beautiful in Barcelona, and oh my, the ladies...
<daftykins> haha i see, i remember a mate getting pickpocketed in Barcelona's gothic quarter
<diplo> yeah, a lad lost a phone but we think he was pick pocketed, he was to drunk to know though
<daftykins> mmm my telco text me on the last trip to Spain warning about phone theft
<daftykins> ho-hum
<awilkins> Heh, this is why I keep my Moto RAZR in my sock drawer.
<awilkins> Stag Weekend Phone.
<awilkins> It's been there for 8 years now :'-(
<foobarry> looking for a reasonably secure LAMP solution for a file repository that allows users to upload files and set permissions for others to access the files etc
<m0nkey_> nextcloud with the 'group permissions' plugin?
<foobarry> probably something like the web only aspect of owncloud's file mamangement, which makes me think there must be simpler tools out there
<m0nkey_> what about seafile?
<m0nkey_> It's self contained, doesn't require apache or anything.
<diplo> awilkins: or just don't get so drunk you don't understand what's going on :)
<zmoylan-pixi> then why have a stag party??
<diplo> I don't need to be blind drunk to have a laugh and enjoy myself :)
<zmoylan-pixi> me neither, but getting pics pf your mates who do can fund your retirement... :-)
<diplo> You really don't want to see the photos scrolling through the whatsapp group
<foobarry> "âAn unauthorised voucher code has been used on this transactionâ. - reason for not getting my cashback :|
<foobarry> For future reference, any code that is used, but is not advertised by ourselves, on a merchant''s page, on our site, is likely to invalidate your cashback.
<penguin42> there's a new Manc<->Leeds bus service doing Â£1 journeys this week
<daftykins> crikey
<daftykins> that's the price over here to ride a bus
<penguin42> the normal price will be Â£9/return
<penguin42> but Leeds is a nice city and I'm on hols this week
<daftykins> huzzah!
<daftykins> i still haven't been truly north
<penguin42> how North have you got?
<daftykins> err, hmm i might have to consult a map
<daftykins> it begins with B north of London, but i forget
<daftykins> Bedford, there we go
<Richard_Cavell> Hi everyone!
<daftykins> hello
<penguin42> daftykins: Similarly I don't go south very often
<Richard_Cavell> I'm from St Anne's, near Blackpool in the northwest
<penguin42> Richard_Cavell: Ah with your windmill
<daftykins> ah ha, i'm in the Channel Islands
<Richard_Cavell> windmill?  I don't know any windmill
<penguin42> Richard_Cavell: https://photos.app.goo.gl/U0PbwhnIO54tQwCk2
<Richard_Cavell> oh that damn thing
<Richard_Cavell> I've been there. There's nothing impressive about it
<daftykins> it's got some wiggly lines on it
<daftykins> so there's that
<Richard_Cavell> yep
<Richard_Cavell> And it's painted white
<penguin42> Richard_Cavell: Well yes, it's the only landmark I know in Lytham
<Richard_Cavell> I use Ubuntu, gcc, make, VICE-emu, mame, and I'm learning C, C++ and vintage computers
<daftykins> funky
 * penguin42 sends Electricity north west a message asking why I was notified of a power outage when I didn't have one
<penguin42> I mean that's the better direction, but still odd
<daftykins> *lights die*
<penguin42> daftykins: 'Yeh, we've now addressed the problem and caused a power outage'
<daftykins> :D
<penguin42> hmm, I bet they've still got me down as the contact number for the company I was IT manager for ~10 years ago
<penguin42> but hmm, they don't show any outages there either
<diddledan> that windmill seems lop-sided
<penguin42> it's seen better days
<daftykins> still 50% effective!
<daftykins> maybe
<diddledan> so you only get half a bag of flour instead of a full one?
<daftykins> yep
<daftykins> the rest is made up of squiggles
<diddledan> I believe those are called weavils
#ubuntu-uk 2017-11-07
<diddledan> late dindins
<daftykins> midnight is pretty late!
 * penguin42 would love to know who CPC sold most of their christmas stuff to
<daftykins> are they out of stock of it already?
<penguin42> no, it's just they have these catalogues of it and well I'm confused who they sell to
<diddledan> cpc have a weird product mix.. like ebuyer
<diddledan> last ebuyer email I remember reading, they were like "look at this awesome graphics card.. and this huge pc monitor.. and this hair curler .. and this massive hard disc"
<daftykins> wow i haven't even visited ebuyer in forever, i think i went off them because they started stinging us for shipping
<diddledan> daftykins: look what your brethren are up to across the water: https://www.macrumors.com/2017/11/06/apple-jersey-tax-haven/
<daftykins> ikr
<daftykins> pesky Crapauds
<daftykins> (what we call the Jersey folk)
<diddledan> :-)
<daftykins> i'm sure Guernsey has a tonne of such secrets though
<diddledan> I swear "double irish" just sounds like a very strong coffee
<penguin42> someone in another window suggested it sounded a lot more erm.....dodgy
<diddledan> ooherr. I wouldn't have ever thought such things myself
<diddledan> I'm pure and innocent
<daftykins> ugh DDR4 prices are insane compared to when i did my new build last year, i got 32GB RAM then for Â£90
<daftykins> now i'm seeing Â£130 for 16GB
<diddledan> wow
<diddledan> that has gone up
<daftykins> mmhmm
<daftykins> 2x
<diddledan> almost as bad as the hard drives after thailand flooding
<daftykins> ah yeah i remember that, was that ~2007? i forget
<diddledan> I think it was 2011
<diddledan> https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2011/oct/25/thailand-floods-hard-drive-shortage
<diddledan> I warned my friends and family off from buying hard drives that xmas
<daftykins> :>
<daftykins> good memory, i always forget the 'when' of tech
<diddledan> I only remember the when because facebook reminded me earlier :-p
<daftykins> XD
<daftykins> in what form?
<diddledan> my warning to folk about avoiding it was highlighted as a "remember what you posted this day in 2011"
<daftykins> ah har
<diddledan> sounds like an important update coming soon: iOS 11.2 addresses an animation bug in the Calculator app that caused some numbers and symbols to be ignored when entered in rapid succession. The update removes the animations from the calculator app so calculations can be done quickly with no need to pause between entering numbers to obtain the correct result.
<daftykins> heh yeah saw that one
<daftykins> not as major as the time Google forgot an entire month in the calendar in Android though
<diddledan> hah I don't remember that one
<daftykins> might've been 4.0 ICS
<diddledan> 'According to DisplayMate, the iPhone X has the "most innovative and high performance" smartphone display it has ever tested'
<diddledan> which is strange when it's a samsung panel
<penguin42> I think Sammy displays section are quite happy to sell them whatever they ask for
<daftykins> i saw a piece earlier claiming the X is also the most easily damaged ever
<ali1234> daftykins: 32GB is over Â£300 on scan now
<ali1234> was Â£110 18 months ago
<daftykins> then minus VAT for rock dwellers
<daftykins> :>
<diddledan> bloomin barnacles
<diddledan> that's not a word I write often.. I have no idea if I spelt it anywhere near correct
<daftykins> seems alright
<diddledan> barnicles mebbe
<ali1234> Â£101.60 to Â£329.99
<ali1234> from 25th june 2016
<ali1234> to today
<daftykins> daym
<ali1234> i7 6700 went from Â£259.40 to Â£285.98
<ali1234> its also two generations out of date now
<daftykins> mmhmm
<diddledan> damn. my cpu is old already?!
<daftykins> d'aww we're CPU brothers, that's mine too
<diddledan> 1 goddamn year and it's obsolete
<daftykins> bah not really
 * diddledan raids the piggy
<daftykins> i did a little low end price-up for fun as if i were to upgrade my server's core 2 duo parts, the RAM price really kills it for me
<diddledan> oops: "Asking Siri something like "What's the temperature?" or "What's the weather?" or "Is it raining?" causes the Apple Watch to crash."
<diddledan> I could try to find you an old goat if you don't like the ram?
<ali1234> i want to do a build around this https://www.scan.co.uk/products/asrock-j3160tm-itx-quad-core-intel-j3160-16ghz-ddr3-ddr3l-intel-hd-graphics-400-sata3-gbe-usb-30-thi
<ali1234> but i can't find a suitable case
<ali1234> it needs to have 1 pci slot and no power supply
<daftykins> diddledan: i feel a bit sheepish about that suggestion
<diddledan> yikes. apple got 10Beeeleon dollarydoos PROFIT! in the last quarter
<daftykins> Look Around You taught me that numbers don't even go that high!
<diddledan> qualcomm and apple are really going in for the dingdong: https://www.macrumors.com/2017/11/02/qualcomm-apple-lawsuit-helping-intel/
<diddledan> YAFL (Yet Another F Lawsuit)
<daftykins> and if Broadcom gets their way and acquires them to create an evil SoC overlord, we'll be in for a Godzilla like clash of the titans
<diddledan> https://www.androidcentral.com/ten-years-ago-androids-first-public-beta-was-released
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> so long ago Sergey hadn't discovered haircuts
<MooDoo> howdy all
<SuperMatt> NEW JERB
<MooDoo> SuperMatt: grat\
<MooDoo> gratz
<MooDoo> SuperMatt: what ?
<SuperMatt> Yelp
<MooDoo> SuperMatt: cool, well done :)
<SuperMatt> Thanks :)
<MooDoo> SuperMatt: so how much does a tea boy get nowa days? ;)
<SuperMatt> 11p/hr
<MooDoo> sweet, i'll apply that's 10p more than I'm currently getting lol
<Laney> and free tea!
<MooDoo> woohoo free tea
<diddledan> what about biscuits?!
<SuperMatt> They've hired someone else for biscuits
<penguin42> eating or making?
<SuperMatt> serving
 * penguin42 just gets them out of the packet
<brobostigon> afternoon boys and girls.
<penguin42> hey
<brobostigon> hey
<NET||abuse> hey guys, i've been running ubuntu 17.10 desktop for a week, gnome on wayland or x i'm getting frequent screen freezes, i wait a little bit and it refreshes.
<NET||abuse> is there some known, bugginess in gnome 3.26?,
<daftykins> ah the perils of non-LTS
<NET||abuse> i'm getting similar freezing occasionally on 3.26 on arch also
<penguin42> the waits sound odd, I'd do a dmesg and see if there are any moans
<penguin42> hmph, the gritter truck is out
<daftykins> is that nasty -10 deg C snap headed your way?
<penguin42> I hope it's not going to be that cold
<daftykins> saw it on a newspaper headline the other day, but not sure where it meant, maybe the outer hebrides :>
<penguin42> metoffice is only showing as low as 2c at about 7am
#ubuntu-uk 2017-11-08
<MooDoo> howdy all
<SuperMatt> morning MooDoo
<MooDoo> morning SuperMatt when you start your new job?
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<SuperMatt> In the new year
<MooDoo> morning brobostigon :)
<MooDoo> SuperMatt: excellent :)
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo :)
<diplo> Whats the new job then SuperMatt - can't be bothered to scroll up :)
<MooDoo> diplo: tea boy....sheesh keep up ;)
<diplo> :P
<SuperMatt> diplo: I'm going to be working for Yelp
<SuperMatt> as a tea boy
<SuperMatt> don't even drink the stuff myself, but someone has to do the job
<MooDoo> lol well done any way SuperMatt i'm sure you'll rock at it
<SuperMatt> I'm sure I will
<SuperMatt> I'm going to be working with a couple of guys I've known since my crazy young goth days
<diplo> Good luck, always thought Yelp were an american thing, never see it referenced in the UK
<fjaiohgae> HI All, just updated to 17.10 and I noticed that the compress file ( from the filebrowser context menu ) does not have a password protection anymore, is this permanently gone or this was just a design bug and it's just hidden somewhere ? This is a pretty basic function which was removed :S
<czajkowski> aloha
<SuperMatt> fjaiohgae: I believe this is something which has come from gnome upstream. You may need to raise a bug with them. Lemme tesk it in a vm first though
<MooDoo> howdy czajkowski :)
<czajkowski> doody
<czajkowski> anyone on 17.04 and found skype not working today by any chance ?
<czajkowski> like it opens , I log in and then low and behold nothing actually works
<fjaiohgae> SuperMatt: I just picked up with the Nautilus guys on the gnome irc, and yes it's Gnome upstream "issue" they integrated the zip into the file browser to replace the file-roller, but basics like password on zip was missed ... :S
<SuperMatt> Right, so it's their issue, and it's just been picked up by Ubuntu as they use Gnome upstream
<fjaiohgae> well .. I fall back to CLI for now and move on I hope this will be fixed soon
<SuperMatt> now you've raised it with the nautilus guys, I'm sure they will
<SuperMatt> of course, you can always load fileroller manually
<SuperMatt> yup, that's possible
<MooDoo> czajkowski: seems ok, it's let me login, and check settings cam etc
<czajkowski> I had to upgrade it seems
<MooDoo> co
<MooDoo> cool
<foobarry> 169 tabs in firefox :|
<foobarry> need to set aside some time to close some tabs
<diplo> How the hell do you ever work with so many, I thought I have to many, but mine I hit 20 odd and it's enough
<SuperMatt> No more than 10 for me
<diplo> yeah 10 and I think I should shut some down, normally when I'm busy
<foobarry> i need help
<foobarry> got it to 86 by closing all issue tickets, and github pages
<foobarry> and other cruft
<foobarry> i also have 40 terminal windows open
<foobarry> desktop > laptop.
<foobarry> i like a bit of continuity in my work, and perhaps put something aside for a week and pick it up on friday etc
<diplo> hah and I have issues with 10+ terminal windows, maybe I have OCD issues :)
<MooDoo> i'm using i3 WM so i'm all about terminals lol
<diplo> I'm debating giving that a go, getting on well with it MooDoo ?
<diplo> I have one browser window on this machine for Nagios, the rest are all terminals
<MooDoo> diplo: yes love it, you have to get used to some things but yes i like it as i'm also using terminator so i i can split terminals easier
<diplo> Since using solus, I like their terminal and haven't used terminator since ( is installed ) maybe just because of newness :)
<MooDoo> yes terminator for me is good in i3
<foobarry> diplo: tried nagcon?
<foobarry> our big monitoring screens have a massive terminal running nagcon instead of the adagios alerts page
<foobarry> https://www.vanheusden.com/nagcon/ its a lot better than the webpage looks
<diplo> I shall take a look foobarry
<diplo> thanks
<foobarry> sent u a pm
<foobarry> of a screenshot from ours
<foobarry> ewww it didn't work. IMMGGUUURRRR
<NET||abuse> ok, i have had another gnome shell glitch, i can see in journalctl exactly where gnome needed to refresh.
<NET||abuse> https://hastebin.com/axowuvowab.js
<NET||abuse> so at the end you can see at 12:57:30 gnome shell reloads
<NET||abuse> but something has been causing glitches like this frequently through my day. this was a fresh 17.10 install 2 weeks ago,
<NET||abuse> these glitches have been since day one 2 weeks ago.
<NET||abuse> i guess i probably did install some extensions pretty much right away.
<NET||abuse> caffeine, pomodoro, refresh wifi, sound input & output device chooser, system-monitor
<NET||abuse> that's my present list, plus the 2 ubuntu ones, appindicators and ubuntu dock
<NET||abuse> anyone else run into this?
<selinuxium> Afternoon  :)
<MooDoo>  /quit
<MooDoo> exit
#ubuntu-uk 2017-11-09
<MooDoo> morning all
<SuperMatt> morning
<czajkowski> ello
<MooDoo> howdy
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<MooDoo> howdy brobostigon
<brobostigon> hi MooDoo
<MooDoo> :)
<czajkowski> bbrrrrr cold this morning
<diplo> It's positively warm compared to tuesday czajkowski :)
<czajkowski> well it's milder for sure
#ubuntu-uk 2017-11-10
<MooDoo> howdy all
<SuperMatt> morning
<MooDoo> morning matey :)
<SuperMatt> After today, I will have covered most of the difficult work I have assigned to me, so I can start coasting until the new job in the new year :)
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zmoylan-samj3> morning mammals
<SuperMatt> Yes. I am a mammal
<SuperMatt> definitely not a lizard person
 * zmoylan-samj3 has seen v and leaves a cage of mice in the room...
<diddledan> https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/Longcross+Studios/@51.3835918,-0.5819911,187m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x0:0x21d6d7c791c6a1b7!8m2!3d51.3832643!4d-0.5938267
 * zmoylan-samj3 wanders back and surepticiously counts the mice
<diddledan> leave those mice alone!
<zmoylan-pixi> try the cage of lemmings instead. they've been feeling really down...
<daftykins> diddledan: hrmm can i pick your brain about a website thingy? a client is going on about his location being wrong on a supplier's "find a stockist" feature, but the google maps result is using a lat and long which is puzzling
<daftykins> https://www.premierbathroomcollection.co.uk/how-to-order?search=GY1
<daftykins> that's the offending page
<ali1234> it works for me
<diddledan> is he using a mobile device?
<ali1234> but i have modified firefox config to hardcode the lat/lon it sends to websites, so that it is actually correct
<diddledan> if not then it can only use IP geolocation which in the UK is very bad
<daftykins> it's got a pin on the map, but it's against a lat and long that's wrong
<diddledan> the pins are for stores, not his location
<daftykins> i know, but that isn't a store either
<diddledan> then the website has incorrect store data
<daftykins> he's got a business location and that's in the correct place on google maps, so what's generating this lat and long of 49.471575000000 -2.555826000000
<daftykins> ?
<diddledan> nothing is generating it. the data the website is using from it's own database is wrong
<daftykins> oh ok so they are holding some info
<daftykins> i just tried to phone but the secretary had no idea who to put me through to to ask who runs the website, then i got hung up on for a transfer :D
<daftykins> surprise surprise
<diddledan> yes, google store location maps embedded on a website require that website to provide the store locations
<ali1234> have him go to https://www.infobyip.com/browsergeolocation.php
<daftykins> it doesn't have anything to do with where it thinks he is, ali1234
<daftykins> in the example link it's feeding the site GY1 as a postcode, then the first result is his firm which just happens to have a wrong spot
<ali1234> oh, i see
<daftykins> appreciate the input though, i thought this was purely maps API based results, so that's funky
<ali1234> maps does have an API that turns an address into lat/lon
<daftykins> if so, the postcode for his shop is wrong versus what google maps returns when you visit it manually
<daftykins> actually no it's not, it's what GY2 4QH comes up as
<ali1234> yeah
<daftykins> and maps is notoriously inaccurate for postcodes over here, is it equally bad in England?
<ali1234> its pretty good whenever i've used it
<daftykins> GY2 4QJ on the other hand finds him pretty closely
<ali1234> maybe he doesn't know his own postcode... wouldn't be the first time
<daftykins> certainly possible
<ali1234> royal mail says it is QH
<daftykins> yeah, just phoned the local post office for fun (since technically we don't have RM) and they said it's fine
<ali1234> so i'm gonna blame google here
<ali1234> though it does not help that royal mail won't release the postcode database
<ali1234> (or whoever it is that runs it)
<daftykins> yeah, lady just then told me that they're using google maps for some software but that it's wrong - seems odd that they'd use an incorrect source
<ali1234> you can try reporting it to google
<daftykins> i'm of the mind to tell him to ask the above supplier to change their entry for him to the wrong postcode, so it then comes up in the right place
<daftykins> meanwhile i could try that as well, yeah
<ali1234> the business appears to be actually listed on the map
<ali1234> but not claimed
<ali1234> and it is listed as 4QJ
<diddledan> oops :-p
<ali1234> but there's one right next to it listed as 4QH
<diddledan> perhaps it's a hisenstore?
<diddledan> heisen*
<daftykins> really? when i'm on google maps i only see the one Bathroom Emporium - sort of between the English & Guernsey Pub and "ATAN AHAN"
<ali1234> no i mean one of the other unrelated businesses nearby is listed as QH
<daftykins> oic
<ali1234> so that's obviously not where google gets that data from
<ali1234> some of the others nearby are listed as QJ as well
<ali1234> so it is inconclusive. i can't find an independent website that lists any of them as QJ
<daftykins> amusingly QJ is a road behind those buildings which doesn't exist on maps
<daftykins> i should draw it in
<ali1234> ah here we go https://www.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/business-and-government/products/code-point-open.html
<ali1234> that's what google is getting the data from
 * diddledan watches daftykins try to draw on his monitor
 * diddledan then, once the sharpie is pocketed again, scrolls the map a bit
<ali1234> but the polygon version (ie boundries showing what is/isn't included) is not available for free
<daftykins> diddledan: RUINED!
<daftykins> i had an email the other day to say that 1,000 people looked at the pics i added to an ice cream kiosk on the south cliffs, pretty impressive
<daftykins> as in, added to its' google maps entry of course
<daftykins> https://goo.gl/maps/SeqmdtZhY7U2
<daftykins> mine are all the ones that aren't wonky
<ali1234> hah... cope point open doesn't have GY at all
<diddledan> gotta love woodgrain:  https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/Pq9KoAB3/Screenshot%20from%202017-11-10%2015-47-52.png
<ali1234> no wonder its all messed up
<daftykins> :D
<m0nkey_> diddledan: if you love woodgrain, you'll love LGR
<diddledan> :-p that's where I got the pic from
<daftykins> lol
<m0nkey_> Then you want these.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JiQCbocAEtQ
<diddledan> splecifically https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fbjYkPKRm-8
<daftykins> ok i told google they have a missing road, but there was no way to include some of my amazing mspaint artwork
<zmoylan-pixi2> i did see a wondwrful story of a place in usa that regularly gets visitors fron police and people insisting their stolen property is thete
<zmoylan-pixi2> some gps bug has default fallback locations wheb it gets confused
<zmoylan-pixi2> https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-switch/wp/2016/01/26/people-keep-going-to-this-home-looking-for-their-lost-phones-and-nobody-knows-why/
<diddledan> I used to pine after a BIOS setup like this: https://youtu.be/fbjYkPKRm-8?t=2025
<daftykins> for all those times you need to enter it ;)
<daftykins> i think a mates Tiny brand PC had one of those, with mouse support too
<daftykins> same machine that had its' PATA ribbons glued in, ace
<m0nkey_> Damn it's cold here today
<m0nkey_> It's -7C
<m0nkey_> With the wind, it's -19C
<daftykins> sheesh!
<daftykins> you're welcome to that :>
<diddledan> the intel management engine confuses me: why would you need an x86 cpu to be able to start-up your x86 cpu?! https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/11/09/chipzilla_come_closer_closer_listen_dump_ime/
<daftykins> once Xzibit was hired, things were bound to go south... bridge
<daftykins> (not really, PCH)
<diddledan> I like the quote from Andrew Tanenbaum: "The only thing that would have been nice is that after the project had been finished and the chip deployed, that someone from Intel would have told me, just as a courtesy, that MINIX was now probably the most widely used operating system in the world on x86 computers. That certainly wasn't required in any way, but I think it would have been polite to give me a heads up,
<diddledan> that's all."
<daftykins> :>
<zmoylan-pixi> i wonder what os the amd equivalent uses...
<daftykins> hah, nah they work hard just to try and get their kit working
<penguin42> diddledan: Everything is quite complex now; qualcomm ARM chips in mobiles have another ARM to get them going; Power server chips have a little PPC to get them going
<daftykins> yep, Xzibit on the scene
<penguin42> diddledan: In theory one advantage of using a separate processor is that you can't misuse the main processor to overwrite firmware etc because it's controlled by the other processor
<diddledan> but if a cpu needs a cpu to get it going, then what starts that other cpu?!
<penguin42> diddledan: It's simple enough to start itself
<daftykins> i can only imagine the kinds of evil malware this can lead to
<diddledan> sounds like voodoo to me
<daftykins> ransomware threatening to zero your disks on next reboot ;D
<penguin42> daftykins: No, to wipe your bios on the next reboot
<daftykins> \o/
<diddledan> at least a zeroed disk can be recovered. bricking the hardware is expensive, and spying can be even more lucrative for the crims
<daftykins> well, re-used, not recovered :D
<diddledan> yeah, you need a backupslowly
<diddledan> left hand down a bit
<penguin42> daftykins: I don't think Intel were doing anything particularly nasty; it's just innevitable that when there's code there it'll get broken - even if there aim of part of the ME stuff was to make it harder to break the code
<daftykins> oh i'm not claiming they were
#ubuntu-uk 2017-11-11
<knightwork> good morning everyone
<zmoylan-samj3> o/
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zmoylan-samj3> morning mammals
<brobostigon> morning
#ubuntu-uk 2017-11-12
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zmoylan-samj3> morning mammals
<brobostigon> morning gelatanous cubes
<ali1234> how do i know if a snap is really made by who it says it is?
<ali1234> for example http://paste.ubuntu.com/25946119/
<ali1234> this seems to confirm it is legit: https://twitter.com/pycharm/status/927883335468232705
<ali1234> although that account is not verified so idk
<zmoylan-samj3> it's good to see paranoia and mistrust in the young :-P
<thebottlerundry> https://discordapp.com/channels/363478234219675649/367521735618199582
<daftykins> ugh.
<zmoylan-pixi> drive by linking... sure i'll click on that...
<zmoylan-pixi> right after i install windows 10
