#ubuntu-meeting-2 2014-09-30
<mdeslaur> \o
<pitti> kees, mdeslaur, slangasek: infinity sent his apologies; waiting for stgraber (he's supposed to chair today)
<pitti> not that we'd have much of an agenda, except the dragged MAAS MRE
<mdeslaur> yep
<kees> cool
 * stgraber waves
<kees> hola
<mdeslaur> hi stgraber
<pitti> Ã§a va stgraber
<mdeslaur> stgraber: and here we thought you were trying to skip out on your chairing duties :)
<stgraber> nah, just came back from the shop :)
<stgraber> #startmeeting Technical Board meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Sep 30 16:07:08 2014 UTC.  The chair is stgraber. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<stgraber> #topic Action review
<stgraber> infinity to review and respond to MAAS SRU thread
<stgraber> well, infinity isn't around so I guess we'll just carry that one over
<stgraber> #topic Scan the mailing list archive for anything we missed (standing item)
<pitti> mdeslaur got a response to the MAAS thread
<pitti> or two in fact
<mdeslaur> do we really need to wait for infinity on that one?
<pitti> but at this point I feel like we don't get any more useful answers
<pitti> I still don't have the feeling that I know how they ensure backwards compatibility, but I could just be overly paranoid
<pitti> mdeslaur: "legally" we don't, a single +1 is enough for an MRE, but some consensus is certainly prudent
<mdeslaur> they claim the API with the nodes will be stable, but don't mention how they plan on making sure of that
<mdeslaur> actually, I think I'll ask that as a follow up question
<stgraber> ok, so back to the ML for that one
<stgraber> that's the only thing I see in the ML history for September so I guess we didn't miss anything :)
<stgraber> #topic Check up on community bugs (standing item)
<stgraber> still nothing
<stgraber> #topic Select a chair for the next meeting (next from https://launchpad.net/~techboard/+members)
<stgraber> that'd be infinity
<stgraber> #topic AOB
<stgraber> anything anyone?
<kees> nothing from me.
<pitti> nothing from me either
<mdeslaur> nope
<ScottK> Re MAAS, they are currently pushing for invasive changes in psycopg.
<ScottK> It makes me wonder how they expect to support trusty.
<pitti> well, if they only make that to trunk, not to the stable branches, that'd be ok?
<mdeslaur> ScottK: oh? do you know what changes those are, or where they've been discussed?
<pitti> I'm not sure whether we are still talking about microreleases only, or new major releases; but I expect the latter (yay terminology)
<ScottK> Looking for the bug.
<pitti> indeed, sorry, it explicitly said "new releases"
 * pitti confused, sorry
<pitti> anyway, there's precedent; newer python modules could be bundled into the new release
<pitti> (which is fairly simple with python)
<ScottK> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/psycopg2/+bug/1366104
<mdeslaur> thanks ScottK
<mdeslaur> hrm, interesting
<stgraber> pitti: though psycopg2 contains a C extension module, so still possible but not nearly as clean :)
<mdeslaur> but it uses a libpq 9.3 only api
<pitti> I'm not sure how much pressure there is to also put new maas releases to 12.04
<pitti> the effort/gain ratio seems too big for me (but that's just gut feeling)
<ScottK> Which is why it's a much more invasive change than the sloc count indicates.
<ScottK> I'm assuming they decided not to care about 12.04 anymore.
<mdeslaur> their request to the tech board was for "latest LTSes"
<ScottK> Upstream pretty much said "you're on your own" re backport the change.
<ScottK> Then at least the libpq is there.
<pitti> latest LTS seems reasonable
<ScottK> Agreed.
<mdeslaur> if you want changes in other packages, that's up to the SRU to decide whether they are acceptable or not
<mdeslaur> s/you/they/
<pitti> yeah, fixes are certainly okay
<ScottK> In this case I'll say not.
<mdeslaur> if they can't get the fixes they require, then it's up to them to work around them
<pitti> like, fixing psycopg to get along with large files smells like a bug fix worth having in an LTS
<ScottK> The psycopg2 change is way more than a fix.
<pitti> I didn't look into it in detail, just the description and some comments
<pitti> but https://github.com/psycopg/psycopg2/pull/259/files looks reasonable at first sight
<ScottK> I'd say changing the libpq API you're using post-release is crazy.
<pitti> (not sure if that's an ABI break due to teh changed types)
<mdeslaur> well, the code is condition and checks the version
<mdeslaur> conditional
<ScottK> Who knows what latent bugs exist in the new api.
<pitti> anyway, putting that detail aside, if changes to other packages are not applicable as an SRU, there's always the bundling option, or working around it in another way
<mdeslaur> right
<ScottK> We'd get the new api on 14.04 since we'd build against 9.3.
<pitti> right, and 14.04 is all we talk about, isn't it?
<ScottK> Yes.
<ScottK> Which is why backporting that patch concerns me.
<ScottK> 'Works with MAAS' doesn't really help.
<ScottK> It's everyone else I worry about.
<pitti> yes, that's what I mean -- if that change is too intrusive for an SRU, there's other ways to get this for maas
<pitti> (I didn't claim that the psycopg fix was fine for an SRU, just that it looks reasonable at first sight)
<mdeslaur> if the change gets NACKed by the SRU team, it's up to them to work around it somehow
<ScottK> So it'd be nice to consider the possibility they have to bundle stuff in any MRE approval.
<pitti> yes, I think for some bits that's quite unavoidable
<ScottK> To bring us back to the topic.
<pitti> e. g. if there's a new dependency which is in trusty universe we don't want to promote it post-release
<pitti> (or binNEW it, etc.)
<pitti> at least then both the effort and the impact of bundled stuff is restricted to maas itself and its devs
<ScottK> (or add a patch that's not SRU suitable)
<pitti> and the latter will make sure that it doesn't happen too often
<ScottK> Yes.
<pitti> ScottK: yeah, obviously
<pitti> so, are we done for today then?
 * pitti smells dinner, yummy :)
 * kees waves
<mdeslaur> I think we are
 * pitti waves good bye then, see you!
<pitti> stgraber: *nudge*
 * ScottK waves. 
<mdeslaur> thanks!
<stgraber> oops :)
<stgraber> #endmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Sep 30 16:40:28 2014 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting-2/2014/ubuntu-meeting-2.2014-09-30-16.07.moin.txt
#ubuntu-meeting-2 2015-09-29
<mdeslaur> \o
<pitti> o/
<slangasek> oh; my clock on the desk is off, indicator madness
<pitti> I haven't heard from infinity in a while, I guess he won't join today
<slangasek> he's sent me his regrets privately
<slangasek> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Sep 29 16:01:39 2015 UTC.  The chair is slangasek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Apologies
<slangasek> Adam Conrad sends his regrets
<mdeslaur> slacker
<mdeslaur> ;)
<slangasek> is everyone else here?
<pitti> stgraber isn't yet
<pitti> and kees
<slangasek> so just the three of us, in fact
<pitti> let's overthrow the world!
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Action review
<slangasek> * ACTION: slangasek to document maas, juju, docker exceptions on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates#Special_Cases
<slangasek> carried over, but getting close to the top of my todo list
<slangasek> (I almost did it before this meeting, but this meeting snuck up faster than expected ;)
<slangasek> * ACTION: pitti to update SRU policy amendment proposals and gather feedback
<pitti> sent two weeks ago; kees sent +1, I haven't heard feedback from Adam
<pitti> he said "if you don't hear from me by next meeting, consider it a silent agreement"
<slangasek> ok
<slangasek> I did raise the concern about whether we're going to see an increase in volume of requests for this kind of thing
<slangasek> you said you considered that an "abuse", but to me it looks like a natural outcome of people acting according to the letter of the policy in good faith
<slangasek> but I don't think we need to block on this
<slangasek> * ACTION: infinity to review pitti's SRU policy amendments and +1/-1 on-list
<slangasek> this one is superseded by events, I think?
<pitti> if this results in backporting 5 new features every week, it's collectively too much noise/potential instability IMHO
<pitti> i. e. if we can't keep up with verifying/reviewing any more
<pitti> where "we" == SRU team
<pitti> but I think this is a problem which we should address if/when we get it
<pitti> in principle the same could happen for bug fixes
<kees> \o
<kees> sorry I'm late!
<pitti> and in some cases there are SRUs which are over the top
<pitti> hey kees!
<pitti> but by and large it seems manageable
<slangasek> stgraber, kees: hi there!
<pitti> slangasek: superseded by events> according to what he told me, yes
<slangasek> ok
<pitti> and we can adjust it further, after all
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Mailing list archive
<stgraber> hello, sorry for being late
<pitti> so should we go ahead with the SRU policy amendments?
<slangasek> looks like the discussion was all about SRU policy this month, so that's fine
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Community bugs
<slangasek> [LINK] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-community/+bugs?field.assignee=techboard
<slangasek> empty
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Select a chair for the next meeting
<slangasek> I believe the rotation is stgraber, with infinity as backup
<slangasek> ?
<pitti> right
<stgraber> I think so yeah, note that I'll be at a sprint at the time though
<stgraber> hopefully I won't be double-booked
<slangasek> [INFO] Next meeting 2015-10-13, 17:00 London time. chair is stgraber, backup chair is infinity
<slangasek> (hopefully that's right)
<mdeslaur> I'll be on holiday, so I won't be attending
<slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
<slangasek> anything else today?
<kees> nothing from me
<mdeslaur> nothing from me
<pitti> do we need to vote on the SRU policy again, or do we have enough votes on teh ML?
<pitti> I got +1 from everyone but Adam now, I think
<slangasek> I think it's been ratified on the list
<pitti> ack
<pitti> so I'll update the policy and send it to u-d-a@
<slangasek> [ACTION] pitti to update SRU policy wiki page and announce on u-d-a
<meetingology> ACTION: pitti to update SRU policy wiki page and announce on u-d-a
<slangasek> yay, a new action ;)
<slangasek> #endmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Sep 29 16:15:34 2015 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting-2/2015/ubuntu-meeting-2.2015-09-29-16.01.moin.txt
<pitti> lose 2, win 1 :)
<slangasek> thanks, everyone!
<pitti> thanks everyone
 * pitti waves from Budapest
<mdeslaur> thanks!
<kees> cya!
<pitti> slangasek: done/sent
#ubuntu-meeting-2 2019-10-01
<xnox> !tech-board
<xnox> !tech-board-ping
