#ubuntu-learning 2009-11-02
<nigel_nb> hello
 * nigel_nb is away: I'm not here..Ping me..I'll reply soon
<pleia2> oh, remember how I said my Learning project UOW session is wednesday? it's actually tomorrow :)
<paulsmith443> hello
<paulsmith443> i have just switched from windows to ubuntu hardy
<paulsmith443> anyone there?
#ubuntu-learning 2009-11-03
<doctormo> pleia2, bodhi_zazen, BiosElement: ping, is there a meeting?
<BiosElement> doctormo: I've got no idea >.>
<cprofitt> I am here...
<pleia2> I'm here
<cprofitt> but kids baths are looming
<pleia2> got little response to my email, so I wasn't sure
<cprofitt> I was not sure if there was to be a meeting either... it was just asked if we could make it... but I thought it was scheduled for 9pm... EST
<cprofitt> I responded -- I thought
<pleia2> yes, it is a 9EST
<pleia2> in 2 hours
<pleia2> cprofitt: yep, you replied, and doctormo said he'd be late
<cprofitt> cool... I thought I saw bodhi and van respond
<pleia2> nothing from Vantrax or bodhi_zazen
<cprofitt> but I am not at that computer right now...
<doctormo> pleia2: Ah good, 9pm est, I wonder why I thought it was 7pm
<cprofitt> I will go get the baths done, wife trained in the art of power point and then make the meeting...
<cprofitt> bbl
<pleia2> ok
<Vantrax> hi
<Vantrax> i think that second time worked out lunchtime for me
<Vantrax> 2hours away?
<doctormo> pleia2: Did my last messages get through?
<Vantrax> <doctormo> pleia2: Ah good, 9pm est, I wonder why I thought it was 7pm
<Vantrax> last one i saw
<pleia2> doctormo: you about? /msg me when you have a moment please :)
<cprofitt> Vantrax, yeah... it is 1.5 hours away now
<bodhi_zazen> I will be with child =)
<pleia2> heh heh "with child"
<Vantrax> lol
<hal14450> mplayer ~/Desktop/Music/flac/Steely_Dan_-_Countdown_to_Ecstasy_\(1973\)/*.flac
<hal14450> gah!
<hal14450> sorry
<cprofitt> hey hal14450
<hal14450> lo cprofitt
<cprofitt> hal14450, are you going to the meeting Thursday?
<cprofitt> I need to give you an XL shirt to bring to ausimage for Sunday if you are
<hal14450> yes i promise i'll be there i've got some stuff to talk to you about and it good news ;-)
<cprofitt> awesome... any hints?
<hal14450> not sure about Sunday or Saturday yet but I'll try to make it out there
<cprofitt> damn... I need to find a person who is going for sure...
<hal14450> its' about Ubuntu
<cprofitt> I keep trying to raise dave123 -- he is going
<hal14450> i'll know by Thursday
<cprofitt> now you have me in suspense
<hal14450> sorry dude
<cprofitt> no problem...
<hal14450> it's been hectic recently
<hal14450> we're swamped at work
<cprofitt> I assume you do not want to talk to me about it today... and want to wait until Thursday
<cprofitt> so I will not push...
<cprofitt> great... glad to hear work is going well...
<hal14450> easier to talk in person about it
<cprofitt> I made it to the Fedora thing at RIT
<cprofitt> we should take this to NY though...
<cprofitt> as it is not learning related
<cprofitt> you are not in the NY channel though
<pleia2> cprofitt: coming down to see me on Saturday night? :)
<cprofitt> pleia2, if the family is well I may try...
<pleia2> yay, I hope so!
<cprofitt> but I need to get the XL shirt to someone just in case
<cprofitt> I have three kids who have flu like symptoms right now
<pleia2> then I will have met you, and meeting doctormo at UDS later this month
<pleia2> aww, poor kiddos :(
<cprofitt> the eldest even bailed on Trick or Treating because of it
<pleia2> wow
<cprofitt> Cool... I hope to get there.
<doctormo> cprofitt: Are you coming to UDS?
<cprofitt> doctormo, I do not think I could...
<cprofitt> not even sure where it is
<doctormo> Dallas, TX
<cprofitt> and money is tight at my house
<cprofitt> when is it?
<cprofitt> ah... this month...
<doctormo> two weeks?
<cprofitt> no... I could not afford to do that... and have not taken the time off
<cprofitt> I will be at NYSCATE though
<doctormo> what is that?
<pleia2> doctormo: you did manage to get sponsorship, right?
<pleia2> I couldn't go otherwise, and my boss is awesome about giving me PTO for it
<cprofitt> they sponsor people?
<cprofitt> woah... I will have to look in to that next year
<pleia2> cprofitt: yep, lots of people
<doctormo> I didn't, I'm rather bummed, possibly to be a bumb my the end of this workless expierment.
<pleia2> doctormo: aw, shame :\
<pleia2> they put me on crew on thursday
<pleia2> so I'll be working for my sponsorship ;)
<doctormo> lol
<cprofitt> wow...
<doctormo> gotta do what you gotta do.
<cprofitt> who would I have to see for next year pleia2 ?
<pleia2> cprofitt: they announce it, there is an online form you fill out
<cprofitt> nice... is it annual or every six months?
<doctormo> six months
<pleia2> there is a developers summit for each release, at the beginning of the release cycle
<pleia2> so we'll be there to talk about lucid
<pleia2> and go out drinking in dallas :)
<pleia2> I've never been to texas before!
<cprofitt> I have been to Texas... it is nice... Dallas is a bit different as far as expressways
<cprofitt> they have exits in the middle
<pleia2> good thing I won't be driving
<doctormo> good thing I can't drive.
<cprofitt> I was designated driver down there
<cprofitt> also... do NOT turn the inside dome light on in your car while driving
<cprofitt> it is a Dallas 'signal' for a paid escort
 * Vantrax wishes he could go
<cprofitt> I almost got beat up by a pimp for that
<pleia2> Vantrax: for an escort?
<Vantrax> bah
<pleia2> heheh
<Vantrax> uds
 * Vantrax can only go to linux.conf.au because work is paying....
 * Vantrax is buying a house
<pleia2> awesome, congrats
<cprofitt> congrats Vantrax
<cprofitt> My work will never pay for me...
<cprofitt> I will have to take vacation and pay or get sponsored
<doctormo> Congratulations, welcome to the jouney to middle class-dom
<Vantrax> house: http://www.realestate.com.au/cgi-bin/rsearch?a=o&id=105975677&f=0&p=10&t=res&ty=&fmt=&header=&cc=&c=60090008&s=qld&snf=rbs&tm=1256701518
<cprofitt> holy crap Vantrax
<cprofitt> that costs 6x more than my pitiful house
<Vantrax> the average house price in my city is $420K
<Vantrax> National average is around $380k
<pleia2> Vantrax: wow! very nice :)
<Vantrax> aside from that damn red kitchen...
<pleia2> hehe
<Vantrax> that is getting made white
<cprofitt> I would not, on my salary, be able to touch a house any where close to that
<Vantrax> as a result... im going to be very broke for the next 10 years:P
<cprofitt> yeah... the only think I did not like about the house was the excessive red
<cprofitt> 10 years?
<cprofitt> you can pay it off in 10 years?
 * cprofitt slams head in to wall
<Vantrax> no...
<cprofitt> I have to pay for 30
<Vantrax> but in 10 years i can refinance to something more manageable in terms of repayments
<cprofitt> well... very ncie
<Vantrax> cprofitt, aside from the carpet upstairs (which is actually quite nice) its all just carpets etc, so it wont look very rea
<Vantrax> red
<cprofitt> My wife is anti-modern open floor plan
<cprofitt> so that house would never float for me... but I do like it
<Vantrax> well... if my wife gets another promotion we could pay it in 10...
<Vantrax> cprofitt, this was the one next door: http://www.realestate.com.au/cgi-bin/rsearch?a=o&id=105946485&f=10&p=10&t=res&ty=&fmt=&header=&cc=&c=75231440&s=qld&snf=rbs&tm=1257212925
<doctormo> I'm waiting to buy a house that's actually worth the money I pay for it.
<doctormo> And perhaps one I can pay off in half my life time, as apposed to 2 life times.
<doctormo> But maybe I'm just being picky.
<pleia2> hehe
<doctormo> ready for meeting everyone?
<pleia2> yep!
<pleia2> we didn't put it on the fridge calendar, but #ubuntu-meeting is free if we want to have it there
<Vantrax> no need, but if you want
<pleia2> I think mostly this is just a board meeting, rather than a full team meeting
<cprofitt> pleia2, we meeting here?
<pleia2> yeah, meeting here
<Vantrax> yer
<cprofitt> I would think here for tonight...
<Vantrax> just a little chat when we are all around
<hal14450> pleia2, if it's a small amount of people you're welcome to use my 800 # and conference room if you want
<cprofitt> bodhi_zazen, you here?
<doctormo> here
<bodhi_zazen> not really ...
<bodhi_zazen> I am @ work and need to be running soon, like 5 min ago , he he he
<pleia2> so I think we just have one agenda item - "the status of the project and how we can get things moving forward"
<bodhi_zazen> i will watch in as I can
<bodhi_zazen> I think I have shared my suggestions with cprofitt
<pleia2> hal14450: thanks for the offer hal14450! I think we'll just have this one here though
<pleia2> ok, so, the premise here: not much is getting done at the moment, how do we fix?
<hal14450> np yw, sometimes having a conf call is easier w/ a small number of people you can get more accomplished than you can w/ text in my experience
<pleia2> I propose adding more hours to the day so I have time to work on this project :)
<bodhi_zazen> o/
<Vantrax> go bodhi_zazen
<bodhi_zazen> I can not stay long, so I will "throw out" my observations =)
<pleia2> ok, please do
<bodhi_zazen> first, we need to get back to our "roots"
<bodhi_zazen> we are a moodle project, not a wiki project
<bodhi_zazen> so, unless there is a gaping void in the Ubuntu wiki, we do not need to write a lot of docuements
<bodhi_zazen> moodle, IMO, is more prestentation of the information
<pleia2> we're not a moodle project..
<Vantrax> bodhi_zazen, moodle is the platform, were a learning project
<pleia2> but otherwise I agree
<bodhi_zazen> Second, we really need to set an example as leaders
<Vantrax> and we also have to cater for teaching done in places with limited internet (asciidoc exports) and offline loco training
<bodhi_zazen> we can not possibly recruit people if we appear to be bickering amongst ourselfes
<pleia2> Vantrax: *nod*
<bodhi_zazen> we need to accept more then one solution to a problem
<doctormo> I agree
<swoody> +1 bodhi_zazen
<pleia2> what I'd really like to see is the leaders within the project draw upon their strong points and start rolling with it
<pleia2> bodhi_zazen and cprofitt working on moodle, me getting back to handling more IRC stuff than just Open Week, doctormo continuing his real life classroom work
 * Vantrax being Switzerland
<pleia2> instead of focusing on the specifics of how it all comes together, just getting some content out there and going from there
<doctormo> pleia2: +1
<Vantrax> pleia2's email gave us a loose structure that we can follow that is both effective and covers all areas
<Vantrax> we just need to try to make sure we are using a similar style of presentation and writing where possible in producing materials.
<bodhi_zazen> I would like to throw out the CoC : http://www.ubuntu.com/community/conduct
<bodhi_zazen> not to chastise anyone mind you
<bodhi_zazen> but that is how a project should wokr
<bodhi_zazen> *work
<Vantrax> bodhi_zazen, -> http://www.ubuntu.com/community/leadership-conduct
<pleia2> Vantrax: I agree, but currently we're spending a lot of time talking about things without real content to point to to consolidate our styles
<bodhi_zazen> I think we as leaders need to look at those bullets and get this project back in line with the CoC, the rest will almost certainly fall into place
<Vantrax> pleia2, no argument there:P
<Vantrax> I would suggest we focus entirely on the beginners section that is outlined in the wiki
<doctormo> bodhi_zazen: That amounts to good government before good food supply. Nation recovery falls on such ideas. But I'm a strong proponent of the CoC in all instances of community involvement.
<Vantrax> generate materials that cover the topics and keep in touch with what other people are working on to integrate things.
<pleia2> Vantrax: +1
<doctormo> Vantrax: What are the begginers sections?
<Vantrax> if there are problems we can deal with them as they come but we are spending way to much time going back over things that should have been solved
<pleia2> desktop, I assume
<pleia2> Vantrax: *nod*
<Vantrax> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Learning/UbuntuDesktopTopics
 * cprofitt nods
<Vantrax> Also, I think we need an administrator/chairperson who keeps this all organized and if necessary can make a decision when people disagree.
<pleia2> Vantrax: a board leader?
<Vantrax> kinda
<Vantrax> one of the things you learn in IT is that when you have a board, no one is accountable or responsible for anything
<cprofitt> I agree with that Vantrax
<cprofitt> and if it would help end some of the bickering that I have seen it would be good.
<Vantrax> yep
<cprofitt> There is also a strong need to document what was done in meetings and mailing lists
<Vantrax> We need to have one person accountable for everything
<cprofitt> I had a struggle re-acclimating myself due to a lack of documented decisions
<cprofitt> also... do we want decision to be 'officially' made by the board?
<Vantrax> they can delegate responsibility for things to people (and I recommend it) but they are accountable for the what things are delegated.
<Vantrax> cprofitt, i would think that would be a good idea
<Vantrax> at the moment its not clear what has and has not been officially decided
<cprofitt> my reason for asking that is... asciidocs appears to be something that was not 'voted' on...
<pleia2> before we say it's needed, is there anyone here who is willing to take on that responsibility?
<cprofitt> and I was not sure if that was something we desired... or if decisions could be informal
 * Vantrax votes for pleia2
<cprofitt> Vantrax, she said willing
<cprofitt> :-)
<cprofitt> I think pleia2 would love to do it, but time constraints likely do not allow for 36 hour days
<cprofitt> :-)
 * Vantrax nominates pleia2
<pleia2> oh gosh, I am not going to take responsibility for this!
<pleia2> hehe
<Vantrax> cprofitt, it was something that was discussed alot, and was decided that it was a good idea.  I dont think it was ever formalized.... again why we need an administrator function
<pleia2> and it's true, I don't have the time
<Vantrax> I can do it, im just a little sporadic at the moment with the baby
<cprofitt> Vantrax, with or without an administrator lead board member we also must decide how things become 'official'
<Vantrax> cprofitt, i agree
<cprofitt> I do not care how that is... but agreeing to the process is critical to everyone feeling 'good' when decisions are made
<Vantrax> i would assume by agreement of quorum
<Vantrax> from the board
<Vantrax> that way it can be done via mailing list
<Vantrax> if necessary\
<cprofitt> then we have to document them so potential contributors can 'learn' about what we are doing w/o having to look at old logs and mailing list archives
<Vantrax> cprofitt, yep, we need someone to maintain a wiki page on these sorts of decisions.
<doctormo> When I proposed the idea of an administrator, I didn't intend for a leadership role , but more of a cleaner of wikis and note of meetings.
<Vantrax> Did i hear you volunteer:P
<bodhi_zazen> I am not sure we need a chairperson, we do need to :
<doctormo> Didn't even have to be someone on the board
<bodhi_zazen> 1. improve communication
<bodhi_zazen> 2. a better way of conflict resolution
<Vantrax> doctormo, I never said had to be on the board
<Vantrax> I said someone that was head accountable
<Vantrax> which would be by the board
<doctormo> Vantrax: My statement wasn't connected to yours, sorry for the wire crossing.
<pleia2> Vantrax: I think you'd be great, but I'm concerned about your "sporadic" availability
<bodhi_zazen> I think if we do those two things, we would be fine, with or without a chair
<pleia2> we need someone who is around, I am not sure there is someone at this time who can do that
<Vantrax> pleia2, its getting better now
<Vantrax> but shes still only 2 months old
<pleia2> well for now, I'll try to do a better job at the administrative stuff (been planning meetings and things, but I could be better, and delagate more)
<doctormo> bodhi_zazen: +1
<Vantrax> pleia2, you can do the job and delegate everything:P you would just have to keep tabs on it
<pleia2> Vantrax: yeah, true :)
<cprofitt> pleia2, perhaps you and I could split duties...
<Vantrax> bodhi_zazen, both good points
<cprofitt> or you and Vantrax
<doctormo> swoody, was it you that said you didn't mind taking on some of these tasks?
<Vantrax> cprofitt, you can delegate responsibility, but not split accountability
 * Vantrax is always surprised when ITIL comes in handy.
<cprofitt> I am growing to love ITIL
<swoody> doctormo, of course I wouldn't mind :)
<pleia2> ok, I can take responsibility for making some *someone* updates the wiki and follows up with tasks
<cprofitt> Vantrax, I agree you can not split... accountability...
<cprofitt> then again we have multiple items to be accountable for
<cprofitt> documentation.
<doctormo> pleia2: I'm thinking more of some pre-defined, mechanical tasks. Things like "document board votes in one place"
<cprofitt> calling meetings.
<bodhi_zazen> the problem for most of us is *time*
<cprofitt> etc.
<pleia2> doctormo: *nod*
<cprofitt> both of those could be separate; yes?
<Vantrax> true, but im talking more from an overall administration perspective, which is mostly about communication, and resolution
<cprofitt> Vantrax: nods
<Vantrax> within that we would have people responsible for the wiki, for coordinating moodle, asciidoc, etc
<cprofitt> I would offer...
<cprofitt> but I am concerned that people have concerns with my leadership
<cprofitt> and I do worry about my time as well
 * Vantrax has never seen a problem with it
<cprofitt> given that I have recently had a conflict with a member of the board I also do not want to cause a rift by taking more on...
<cprofitt> thanks Vantrax
<cprofitt> I also know that my style can be seen, at times, to be too direct
<cprofitt> and not sure how well that meshes with the style this group wants/needs
<doctormo> What ever the news rolls we need to make are, we should make sure the responsibilities and the jobs are documented strongly with the board's objectives and other rolls.
<Vantrax> doctormo, first job for the administrator:P
<Vantrax> draft and present to board
<pleia2> doctormo: +1
<cprofitt> perhaps we can entertain having a third party person come in and do this with us...
<cprofitt> like Craig A. Eddy...
<cprofitt> I dunno...
<Vantrax> that being said, how about Ill take up the responsibility for the meantime and draft this and present it. Then we open it up to everyone involved to fill the positions outlined
<Vantrax> including the administrator
<pleia2> sounds good
<cprofitt> Vantrax, sounds fair to me
<pleia2> I'll keep making sure we have meetings and things
<pleia2> until we sort this out
<cprofitt> pleia2, thanks
<pleia2> but we're empire building a bit again ;) can we focus back on Getting Things Done?
<cprofitt> your efforts are appreciated
<Vantrax> that way people can step in and take control of a section they are passionate about, but be held accountable to make sure things are getting done, and are integrated
<cprofitt> pleia2, I agree... but part of getting things done is having a way to get the train back on the rails if it goes off again
<Vantrax> pleia2, i hate empire building, but sometimes you have to do it just a little bit
<cprofitt> we really lacked in getting things documented
<pleia2> I know some needs to be done, but I was hoping this meeting could mostly be more with moving forward on coursework rather than even more administrative stuff
<Vantrax> So, ill get this stuff drafted on the wiki
<pleia2> thanks Vantrax
<cprofitt> and that cause, IMHO, a situation where people took my trying to figure it out as an inquisition
<Vantrax> Coursework, we focus on the desktop stuff
<cprofitt> rather than a simple... help me understand this
<doctormo> cprofitt: Sorry about that, I hope we got that cleared up. Internet is such a pain for word use meaning.
<Vantrax> we get everyone involved in the project to take one topic under their wing from the desktop list and work on it
<pleia2> ok, can we get some folks to commit to working on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Learning/UbuntuDesktopTopics ?
<cprofitt> to be honest doctormo I am still uncomfortable with how it was 'left'
<cprofitt> pleia2, I will try to get back to my topic that I chose - installation
<cprofitt> in Moodle format.
<pleia2> swoody: did an awesome job linking to a bunch of resources
<pleia2> cprofitt: great!
<cprofitt> so I can show a 'style' as an example.
<cprofitt> I also have to work on another article for SmartBean
<cprofitt> this one about Open Source programming
<cprofitt> they want me to write a regular piece about FOSS
<doctormo> Vantrax: I'm handeling the entire sys admin course so far, should I take the desktop intro from pleia2?
<pleia2> I'm going to recruit more people to link to more wiki resources
<pleia2> doctormo: go for it
<pleia2> turns out course development is not my forte :) I'm better at organizing people and things
<Vantrax> doctormo, i think we should start on the sysadmin stuff after we have a fair bit sorted for the desktop
<Vantrax> its easier to work upward
<pleia2> Vantrax: doctormo has already written 10 sysadmin courses
<Vantrax> not to say stop working on it....:P
<Vantrax> I know
<pleia2> ok :)
<Vantrax> and he should continue, its just as a group we should focus on the desktop
<pleia2> I think we all agree here
<Vantrax> thank God for that:P
<pleia2> hehe
<pleia2> hugs all around!
<doctormo> I agree, although some work on the how to teach in paralell? as people learn?
<pleia2> doctormo: I think we're going to try to document "what we're doing - here is a link to my stuff" on the wiki
<pleia2> we'll revisit how this is working after we've got a bit done
<cprofitt> I am good with classroom teaching, but I need help on teaching with IRC and Moodle
<cprofitt> while I have written a course in Moodle I have not, yet, had the opportunity to teach it
<doctormo> ok pleia2, makes sense
<Vantrax> doctormo, I just tend to think we should try to work on doing it a bit before we try to write on teaching:P
<cprofitt> that is why I was trying to get some K-12 educators involved via classroom20.com
<cprofitt> did anyone sign-up for the on-line Moodle course they were offering?
<doctormo> So Teach and others is -1, SysAdmin is +0 and Desktop is +1, that's a fairly good start on the priorities??
<swoody> well as I mentioned before, and also to doctormo - I wouldn't mind taking on maintaining a meeting-decisions page. To organize and summarize all the decisions that have been made...
<pleia2> doctormo: I think s, yes
<swoody> kind of offtopic now ;)
<pleia2> swoody: great!
<cprofitt> the only caveat to that is how to properly write a course for the media intended
<doctormo> swoody: It would involve a bit of archive reading to get everything we've forggoten.
<swoody> but that way we can have one central location for any newcomers who would like to help out.
<pleia2> swoody: can you start now by saying you volunteered to do that, Vantrax is writing up a further Roles doc, and some other stuff I forgot already ;)
<cprofitt> I do not want a course on teaching, but having a good idea how an on-line asynchronous course works would help
<swoody> and for all of us already involved to remind us of what has been decided ;)
<pleia2> we have https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Learning/Tasks
<swoody> doctormo, that's not a problem :)
<swoody> pleia2, will do :)
<cprofitt> +1 swoody
<cprofitt> we need to do that.
<swoody> has any beginning been made for this? or shall I start from scratch?
<pleia2> well now the wiki isn't loading, but Tasks was our page for ongoing things
<doctormo> swoody: Cool, would you like me to check up with you next week?
<swoody> doctormo, sure thing :)
<swoody> I'll be around
<pleia2> ok, one last thing before we wrap up?
<Vantrax> sure
<pleia2> I am doing the Ubuntu Open Week presentation tomorrow afternoon at 20:00 UTC
<pleia2> as mentioned on list
<Vantrax> swoody, it hasnt been done yet, that is half the problem:P
<pleia2> awesome recruitment tool, are we ready for volunteers? what things can we do tonight to BE ready?
<cprofitt> Just get our process documented...
<pleia2> only thing I can think of right now is linking to wiki documents
<swoody> Vantrax, that's not a problem, I'll just start from scratch, and catch up through the logs :)
<cprofitt> and that is a tall order in one night
<pleia2> cprofitt: I meant things that are posible :)
<cprofitt> have a process detailed on how to join would be possible though
<pleia2> we have our joining process details
<cprofitt> perhaps some basic roles for contributors... which I think we have
<pleia2> detailed
<pleia2> do we?
<pleia2> ugh, wiki down at such a bad time
<swoody> indeed
<cprofitt> with the wiki down... I am not sure
<cprofitt> hence why I am throwing stuff against the wall
<pleia2> cprofitt: when you find "basic roles for contributors" can you let me know? I think that's what I'm grasping for here
<cprofitt> yep
<pleia2> great :)
<cprofitt> page will not load for me yet... but if it does
<doctormo> pleia2: Basic instructions could be, "research" and "write", even if people are writing odfs and sending them to the mailing list, it's not pretty, but it's progress.
<pleia2> doctormo: yeah, I've been working with the Beginners Team Education Focus Group, encouraging them just to jump in
<cprofitt> doctormo, would finding and reviewing existing resources be under research?
<cprofitt> my old team pleia2
<cprofitt> the new lead is very excited to get things rolling
<pleia2> yeah, I've been working with him these past couple weeks
<cprofitt> great guy!
<pleia2> yeah :)
 * pleia2 looks at a calendar
<pleia2> we are approaching busy holiday times, meetings will be tricky
<doctormo> cprofitt: I'd think more of that as editing and drafting, but I'm open to expanding research to include it.
<pleia2> do we want to have our next meeting in a week? on Monday? I can't make it but with my boss being out of town, then UDS and Thanksgiving I'm swamped for the next 3 weeks
<Vantrax> lol
<cprofitt> I ask that doctormo because I know we wanted to really leverage existing documentation as a means to getting other groups involved and reducing our need to 'write' content
<doctormo> pleia2: I was planning on adding a community event for UDS for this group, we'll try and time it so we can all be online, it doesn't even have to be during the session day.
<Vantrax> Definitely a good idea
<doctormo> cprofitt: We do, I was thinking about the things I've already written.
<pleia2> doctormo: please do add such an event, I'm a UDS newbie so I don't really know how this all works - but I'll be there! (just not on thursday, since I'm crew that day)
<cprofitt> that would be cool to have a UDS event
<pleia2> and now I need to scoot out of this meeting so I can finish up my UOW presentation for tomorrow
<pleia2> I'll post the text to the list when I'm done, that way everyone will have ~15 hours to look at it if they want ;)
<swoody> take care pleia2 :)
<pleia2> thanks everyone
<doctormo> pleia2: Let me know if you need any help with that.
<bodhi_zazen> I have not been following and need to run as well
<cprofitt> thanks everyone
<pleia2> doctormo: thanks! I'll let you know
<swoody> wiki's still down :/
<swoody> that stinks
<cprofitt> night all
<doctormo> swoody: Aye, they should have a backup system for it.
<swoody> that wouldn't be a bad idea...
<swoody> but how often does it go down like this?
<swoody> ah, we're back online :)
<pleia2> thank goodness :)
<swoody> indeed :)
<swoody> So I was thinking of just including official decisions, and major ideas that were brought up/discussed at meetings...
<swoody> does this sound fine to you all, or would you want more of an outline of the meeting?
<nigel_nb> pleia2: I would like to join the Learning Team..is there anything I have to do?
<swoody> nigel_nb, yes, give us a minute to get the flaming hoops ;)
<nigel_nb> swoody: :D
<swoody> heya nigel_nb :)
<doctormo> swoody: Major ideas and covered ground would be helpful too, especially for new people.
<nigel_nb> hey swoody.. well.. considering the BT team membership path, I was wondering if learning team has anything like that
<swoody> nigel_nb, oh nothing really like that, just a desire to help, and a will to carry it out :)
<nigel_nb> then I'm in
<swoody> nigel_nb, but doctormo or pleia2 can help you get started down the right path :)
<nigel_nb> ah
<swoody> (better than I, at least) ;)
<pleia2> nigel_nb: you can start here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Learning/Structure
<pleia2> so first "Introduce yourself to the team and give us an idea of your interests, skills, and how you see yourself working with the team."
<nigel_nb> thanks pleia2
<pleia2> :)
<nigel_nb> here on IRC is fine?
<doctormo> yep
<nigel_nb> Recently, I've seen quite an interest in learning Ubuntu and supporting Ubuntu in my LoCo mailing list and among my friends.  I'd like to help the Learning team in content creation and later on if possible as a teacher.  I've been going through the logs of the classroom sessions and realized that they are quite helpful (and organized).  I'm interested in helping the Desktop Users to develop confidence in using Ubuntu (and lin
<nigel_nb> ux in genreral).  Looking forward to working with the team to spread the knowledge of Ubuntu.
<pleia2> nigel_nb: great! I'll go ahead and add you to the team
<nigel_nb> thanks pleia2
<pleia2> nigel_nb: have you signed up for the mailing list?
<nigel_nb> I think I did earlier today
<pleia2> great :)
<nigel_nb> pleia2: will confirm.. 2 mins
<nigel_nb> pleia2: yep done. Joined the mailing list
<pleia2> great :) welcome
<nigel_nb> thanks
<swoody> welcome aboard nigel_nb :)
<nigel_nb> I'm just going through the earlier team logs.
<pleia2> oh no! what has happened to our moodle install?!
<pleia2> oh, just was rendering oddly in chromium
<doctormo> pleia2: Did you just add our new friend to the ubuntu learning board?
<pleia2> doctormo: no, just ~ubuntu-learning
<swoody> So how do you guys want to label this... wiki.ubuntu.com/Learning/Decisions ?
<swoody>  /History ?
<pleia2> ok, let me think
<swoody>  /MeetingBullets ?
<pleia2> we have an /Agenda
<swoody> mhmmm
<pleia2> once upon a time we wrote: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Learning/Agenda/05092009
<pleia2> or like: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Learning/Agenda/07272009
<pleia2> but then I got tired and just linked to logs
<pleia2> on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Learning/Agenda
<pleia2> once we had them on the Agenda/date pages, we'd migrate them into their own pages
<swoody> ok
<pleia2> so https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Learning/Agenda/07272009 stuff ended up in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Learning/Structure
<pleia2> right now I think we just want the Agenda/date stuff done, we'll decide where to put it later :)
<swoody> ok, so you want me to basically fill in the rest of the Agenda/date pages then?
<doctormo> swoody: I'd like you to make the Decisions page, if pleia2 doesn't mind.
<swoody> or do you mean in a manner similar to that?
<pleia2> doctormo: our wiki is a diaster area of unfleshedout structure
<nigel_nb> pleia2: I agree with that.. difficult to understand whats going on
<doctormo> pleia2: Perhaps some pruning then? The Agenda pages perhaps need to be condensed into the desicions page?
<swoody> doctormo, that's what I had in mind
<pleia2> doctormo: the Agenda pages need to exist, we need them for team reporting and so we have real records of what occurred during meetings
<swoody> taking the info from the existing agenda pages, and merging them all into 'Decisions'
<doctormo> pleia2: OK, then they sounds like a priority.
<pleia2> other teams use these as "Decisions" pages, I don't see why we can't
<doctormo> pleia2: My only concern is that they'd be spread out, they're a good record, but not much of an index of in place ideas and designs.
<pleia2> Learning/Contribute is empty (shouldn't this be Learning/Tasks?)
<pleia2> Learning/Publishing is empty, I don't know what this is supposed to be
<swoody> How about we keep the agenda pages, and make one 'Decisions' page that will link to the agendas for more info?
<swoody> that way we can have one central location for an outline of all decisions, and then links to agendas for more details?
<pleia2> swoody: I think it won't be maintained and we're just asking for trouble
<pleia2> I think we need to take this one step at a time :) first get agenda pages
<pleia2> since we're not even doing that right now
<pleia2> then decide if we want to add more on top of that
<swoody> pleia2, sounds good to me :)
<doctormo> pleia2: fair enough, swoody are you up for that?
<swoody> doctormo, indeed :)
<nigel_nb> pleia2: sorry about that...
<nigel_nb> I can access it through the launchpad team?
<pleia2> no need to be sorry, this is just where the main project folks are ;) I'm at work so won't be terribly responsive
<nigel_nb> I'm leaving for work in around 15 minutes
<nigel_nb> but I will go through the log tomorrow and get back to you if I have questions
<pleia2> https://code.launchpad.net/ubuntu-learning-materials
<nigel_nb> pleia2: are we decided on using asciidoc?
<pleia2> nigel_nb: yep
<pleia2> this email describes the project workflow https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-learning/2009-October/000067.html
<pleia2> (this is linked to the Tasks page)
<nigel_nb> pleia2: so if I want to work on one of the topics you created I create something on asciidoc and upload it to bzr?
<pleia2> first you make a note on the wiki page to let the rest of us know you're working on it
<pleia2> then yes, you write it in asciidoc and put it into bzr
<nigel_nb> i went through your outline
<nigel_nb> each of the bullet points is one topic for which material is to be written..am I right?
<pleia2> if you look on the Learning wiki page, scroll down to the bottom - there are buttons linking to all these things
<nigel_nb> i did
<nigel_nb> thats what I'm asking
<nigel_nb> on the desktop topics, you've given a bullet point-list
<pleia2> the outlines are still being worked on, it's up to the course developer to decide precisely what is included in their segment and to claim it
<pleia2> say, maybe you want to put setting up email and chatting into one course, that's ok, just make note of it on the wiki page
<nigel_nb> and I have to make the asciidoc and moodle course for it..
<nigel_nb> and lead a session on it?
<pleia2> you don't *have to*
<pleia2> but those are some of the things you can do
<pleia2> I certainly don't have the talent or time to do all three :)
<nigel_nb> same here.. leading an IRC session is not something I'm sure I can do
<nigel_nb> I'm just going through the system admin courses to get an idea
<pleia2> anyone going to be about to help me with the UOW session in 2.5 hours?
<pleia2> (mostly just sitting in #ubuntu-classroom-chat and catching stray questions and discussion I may miss)
<doctormo> pleia2: I'm online for you, I'll be in -chat
<pleia2> yay, thanks doctormo!
<doctormo> pleia2: np
<pleia2> doctormo: 1 minute til :)
<pleia2> doctormo: most of the questions I'll answer in -classroom :) just need you for overflow mostly
<doctormo> pleia2: OK
<mhall119|work> hey doctormo
<doctormo> hey, basically you want to add your link into the SysAdminTopics page, and then decide if you want to help me incorperate the ideas into the course.
<mhall119|work> okay
<mhall119|work> put it under Further Material Links?
<doctormo> Yes
<doctormo> These are links which can be used inside the materials or used as a basis for creating them.
<mhall119|work> top of the list or bottom?  or does it matter?
<doctormo> mhall119|work: Not that important.
<mhall119|work> doctormo: done
<doctormo> mhall119|work: Great, so, you were saying you'd like to write some more? you've seen the topics, any passions your feeling for any of the topics?
<mhall119|work> doctormo: I want to do some for Qimo
<mhall119|work> but I may contribute some general-app stuff too
<mhall119|work> for niche apps that I like, gramps for instance
<doctormo> mhall119|work: My personal want is for more general courses, but it's totally up to you.
<mhall119|work> doctormo: time is a problem for me
<mhall119|work> so I generally knock out short stuff when I can
<doctormo> mhall119|work: Perhaps you'd be happier doing drafting on my existing work? There is a need for someone to just read and correct. Peer review if you will.
<mhall119|work> sure, I can probably do that
<doctormo> mhall119|work: Do you mind if I set you a task?
<mhall119|work> sure, but no guarantees on when it will get done
<mhall119|work> can you add me to the lp team?
<mhall119|work> https://launchpad.net/~mhall119
<doctormo> ok, well I need someone to venture forth and find process problems. I need someone to basically checkout trunk2, grab one of my ODF files and recreate it in asciidoc, the questions you ask and the parts you get stuck on will be very informative.
<mhall119|work> trunk2 of the other one you posted?
<mhall119|work> oh, okay
<doctormo> I just switched them around, so a checkout of lp:ubuntu-learning-materials should now pull a different branch.
<mhall119|work>  ok
<doctormo> http://doctormo.wordpress.com/index.php?s=Systems+Administration <- this is a basic list of things in odf
<mhall119|work> what's the lp name for that?
<doctormo> mhall119|work: That's not on launchpad, that's on my wordpress blog.
<mhall119|work> I meant for trunk2
<mhall119|work> bzr branch lp:???
<doctormo> it's lp:ubuntu-learning-materials
<doctormo> Or at least, it is now.
<mhall119|work> that has the odf's you need converted to asciidoc?
<doctormo> mhall119|work: That has the asciidocs, the target, the odfs are linked from my blog.
<mhall119|work> ok
<mhall119|work> there are odfs in that branch too
<doctormo> Hmm, you probably have the old 'trunk' checked out, I just swapted them over, so rename that and do a fresh branch again
<doctormo> same name
<mhall119|work> ok
<mhall119|work> welcome wrst
<mhall119|work> stalking me?
<wrst> of course mhall119|work its because you are so hot :P
<wrst> no i was simply obeying pleia2 when she said she wanted to see people over at ubuntu-learning
<mhall119|work> I know it
<mhall119|work> I see how it is
<pleia2> hehe
 * pleia2 hugs wrst 
<mhall119|work> doctormo: okay, I will set myself to learning asciidoc
<doctormo> pleia2: Your session didn't seem too undrafted.
<doctormo> pleia2: Very well done I thought
 * wrst blushes
<pleia2> doctormo: thank you
<doctormo> mhall119|work: If you get stuck, you only have to copy each sentance into a text file.
<mhall119|work> wait, she was winging it?
<pleia2> mhall119|work: I put some notes together late last night, and early this morning
<mhall119|work> well it sure didn't seem that way
<wrst> seemed like a perfectly prepared presentation to me
<mhall119|work> good job
<pleia2> thanks :)
<yos> awesome :D
<wrst> pleia2: i just caught the end of things ubuntu-learning what do we do here
 * wrst thinks that might have been a dumb question...
<pleia2> wrst: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Learning gives some overview
<wrst> thanks pleia2
<pleia2> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/openweekKarmic/Learning is half populated already
<pleia2> at least all the intro stuff is there
<mhall119|work> okay, I have to make my trek home, see you guys later
<yos> pleia2, that was an awesome presentation but for me, it was information overload...you said you could use some more reviewers...so where and how do I begin ?
<pleia2> yos: thanks! currently the finished courses we have are just in the sysadmin category, but there are some pretty basic ones that I think anyone can tackle
<pleia2> if you go to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Learning/SystemAdminTopics
<pleia2> can click on, for instance "The Command Line Basics"
<pleia2> that will take you to doctormo's blog entry, where you can download the PDFs, and leave comments in the blog, or talk to us here about what you think
<yos> Thanks pleia2 I'll get started right away :D
<pleia2> excellent, thank you!
<doctormo> Thansk yos
<yos> Thank you doctormo :D
<mhall119> pleia2: I extracted URLs from your session log and posted them on the wiki page
#ubuntu-learning 2009-11-04
<Michelle_Qimo> pleia2: Just wanted to let you know, mhall119 suggested I touch base, and let you know I'm happy to help in any way I'm capable.
<pleia2> hi Michelle_Qimo :) welcome
<pleia2> and itnet7 too, florida invasion, hooray!
<Michelle_Qimo> Thanks for having me!  I'm not sure what all I can contribute, but I'm certainly willing, just holler!
<crashsystems> +1 Florida :D
<pleia2> Michelle_Qimo: I am still trying to get some things together post-session, but I will certainly let you know soon :) thanks!
<Michelle_Qimo> sure thing.  :-)
<crashsystems> is there a mailing list for the project?
<mhall119> pleia2: I've been advocating for you
<pleia2> crashsystems: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-learning
<pleia2> mhall119: thank you!
<pleia2> we had a team meeting last night and I said "UOW session tomorrow, we will get volunteers, are we ready?"
<pleia2> we'll see for sure now! :)
<hal14450> Michelle_Qimo, you and mhall119 got high praise from Beth Lynn of Ohio Linux Fest @ Ontario Linux Fest this year ;-)
<Michelle_Qimo> hal14450: aaw, I appreciate that!
<mhall119> hal14450: sweet! and we weren't even there
<hal14450> i was sitting near her for the final keynote and she mentioned Qimo ;-) i mentioned how much i like it too
<Michelle_Qimo> v.2 in Feb!
<hal14450> cool
<mhall119> maybe a v1.5 before then
<hal14450> i'm gonna bug my neighbors to take a spare box from me for their kids to run it on
<Michelle_Qimo> pleia2: I've subscribed to the mailing list.  Looking forward to contributing.
<pleia2> Michelle_Qimo: great, welcome!
<crashsystems> I've also subscribed.
<pleia2> crashsystems: cool, thanks!
<nigel_nb> pleia2: just reading the logs of your session.. great one :)
<pleia2> nigel_nb: thank you
<nigel_nb> pleia2: can i go ahead and take ownership of a few topics?
<nigel_nb> one to start off..
<pleia2> nigel_nb: feel free to edit the wiki and put your name next to them, along with what you're doing (planning on developing as asciidoc, moodle, just plain text...)
<nigel_nb> pleia2: okay..thanks
<pleia2> if someone wants to help out, they'll know to contact you
<nigel_nb> do we have a help on asciidoc?
<nigel_nb> or moodle?
<nigel_nb> for new members...
<mhall119> nigel_nb: I have an asciidoc link, one second
<pleia2> on learn.ubft.net there is a moodle course, with videos
<mhall119> http://www.methods.co.nz/asciidoc/
<pleia2> thanks mhall119
<nigel_nb> oh okay.. thanks pleia2
<pleia2> ok, I'm going to draft up a "getting start with the team" document
<pleia2> probably won't finish tonight, but i'll post to the list when it is
<doctormo> hey guys
<doctormo> I hear there are some people wondering about bzr and launchpad
<pleia2> BiosElement: you about?
<doctormo> BiosElement: ping
<BiosElement> Wow I'm popular today >.< Yeah I'm about.
 * pleia2 hugs BiosElement 
<nigel_nb> thanks mhall119
<nigel_nb> doctormo: yes.. a little
<nigel_nb> doctormo: still reading up everything about bzr
<doctormo> you don't have to read everything up on bzr to get the branch
<nigel_nb> doctormo: where do I start?
<BiosElement> nigel_nb: The best way to learn bzr is by doing it. It's not like you can 'break' bzr in any major way.
<nigel_nb> BiosElement: I'm getting things installed one by one
<nigel_nb> just getting asciidoc up... bzr is next
<doctormo> I'll be back online in 20 or 30 mins to give you all a short class in it
<doctormo> Collect all students together
<pleia2> BiosElement: I think we want to get that "step by step here is the easy way to get going with contributing your asciidoc to bzr" document out
<doctormo> And me and BiosElement will teach something
<doctormo> Watever we do, we'll record it into a class tonight!
<BiosElement> pleia2: That's what I'm digging around for. I've got it somewhere around here.
<pleia2> ok
<BiosElement> I 'do' have the quickstart for asciidoc here. Still haven't gotten a bzr guide written I'm afraid.
<BiosElement> Getting Started with AsciiDoc: http://paste.ubuntu.com/309031/
<pleia2> alright
<pleia2> I think the bzr one is important, so if we do a session tonight on it we'll pull from that I guess
<BiosElement> That's what I thought. I've actually poked around but haven't found a bzr guide myself and since I've got it setup already I'd no-doubt forget a few important steps if I attempted to do it myself.
<pleia2> yeah, I still have the log from when I got set up too
<BiosElement> I may just breakdown and do the guide the hard way via virtualbox >.<
<nigel_nb> BiosElement: I could probably help with it
<nigel_nb> BiosElement: since I'm just getting it ready
<BiosElement> nigel_nb: Thanks. ^_^ I'll be logging tonight anyway and am actually loading a virtualbox install of karmic now.
<nigel_nb> BiosElement: I'll strike you a deal :D walk me through it and I'll pastebinit my log :D
<mhall119> BiosElement: how about a shared screen session?
<BiosElement> mhall119: Not a bad idea but I'm not sure it'd be really necessary.
<BiosElement> nigel_nb: Well what've you gotten done so far? >.< You'll need a launchpad account, ssh keys (I think >.<) and the bazaar package installed.
<nigel_nb> need to regenerate my ssh keys.. forgot to backthem while installing karmic
<nigel_nb> bazar is installed.. already got a launchpad account
<BiosElement> nigel_nb: You'll need the "ssh" package then. And IIRC the command to generate a keypair is ssh-keygen.
<nigel_nb> just generated them
<nigel_nb> uploading
<nigel_nb> BiosElement: okay ssh key is up
<nigel_nb> now what do I do?
<BiosElement> Probably a good idea would be to create a folder with a sample readme in it and enable bzr version control on it so you can upload it to a repository on launchpad.
<BiosElement> Normally I'd say to use a template but myself and doctormo are still hashing out the details so they're not quite complete yet.
<nigel_nb> BiosElement: how do I do that?
<BiosElement> Create a folder, make a file called "README" and toss some random "Hello World!" Text or whatever you like in it. Then in console cd to the directory and run bzr init
<BiosElement> Oh, it'd also be a good idea to run bzr whoami 'Joe Doe <joe.doe@gmail.com>' Replacing the John doe with your name/e-mail. Might not be strictly needed but IIRC it helped with the revision logs.
<pleia2> BiosElement: I've had a very very long day, I need to skip out for the evening
<mhall119> you can generate keys from seahorse too
<BiosElement> Aight, Night pleia2 ^_^
<nigel_nb> night pleia2
<pleia2> but, one thing we forgot when mine was getting set up: authentication rather than anonymous lp checkout
<mhall119> night pleia2
<BiosElement> And go get some creamer pleia2 :P
<pleia2> elizabeth@r2d2:~$ ls .bazaar/
<BiosElement> pleia2: When he pushes a branch to lp it should require authentication.
<pleia2> authentication.conf  bazaar.conf
<pleia2> so make sure you have that stuffs
<pleia2> I think .bazaar/authentication.conf is what I was missing
<pleia2> anyway, night all :)
<BiosElement> Night pleia2
<nigel_nb> i did the init
<mhall119> you can just run bzr launchpad-login $lpusername
<BiosElement> ls and you should see a .bzr folder or something similer now.
<mhall119> to configure bzr with your launchpad id
<BiosElement> mhall119: Thanks, I was hunting for that command >.< It's not on the bazaar launchpad wiki...or not on the page i was reading atleast
<mhall119> BiosElement: no, I did bzr help launchpad
<mhall119> I found it online somewhere once before, but I don't remember where now
<BiosElement> mhall119: Ahh. Silly me. I forgot bzr was one of the few that had actually useful help menu's
<nigel_nb> yes.. I see the .bzr
<mhall119> yeah, bzr help $extension is very good
<BiosElement> Now you need to add the README file to the vcs so bazaar actually "tracks" changes.
<mhall119> BiosElement: is this just a bzr walkthrough, or specific to ubuntu-learning?
<BiosElement> mhall119: It's basically just a bzr walkthrough but I'm getting him setup for ubuntu-learning work.
<nigel_nb> mhall119 a bazaar walkthruogh for ubuntu-learning
<mhall119> ok
<BiosElement> now you can run bzr add *
<nigel_nb> done
<BiosElement> Note that this won't always work after you've already created a branch but it seems to work great for new branches.
<mhall119> bzr add doesn't always work?
<nigel_nb> ok
<nigel_nb> BiosElement: what do I do when it does not work?
<BiosElement> bzr add always works, but bzr add wildkey won't always work
<mhall119> ah, ok
<BiosElement> nigel_nb: When it doesn't always work you typeout the filenames. But you shouldn't have too often.
<BiosElement> such as instead of wildkey it'd be bzr add README
<mhall119> if you don't give it a file or wildcard, I think it adds anything in the directory not currently under version control
<nigel_nb> ah..
<nigel_nb> okay
<BiosElement> or bzr add /folder/anotherfolder/filename.txt
<BiosElement> mhall119: Well it's a wildkey but the add command only effects files 'not' under vcs so yes >.<
<nigel_nb> BiosElement: an unrelated doubt
<nigel_nb> is it normal for gedit to create a hidden file called "filename.txt~" ?
<mhall119> yes
<BiosElement> now here's a point I can't really help much. "bzr commit" is the command but IIRC by default ubuntu uses nano or something similer and I don't actually know the key command to "save" and commit.
<BiosElement> nigel_nb: Yes. Disable it in the config if you don't like random files like me >.>
<nigel_nb> BiosElement: disabling now
<nigel_nb> BiosElement: you lost me here..what is bzr commit?
<mhall119> bzr commit -m "your commit message" [ files to commit ]
<mhall119> is what I always use
<mhall119> nigel_nb: bzr add tells bzr to track changes to a file
<BiosElement> bzr commit actually commits a "revision" to bazaar
<mhall119> bzr commit commits your changes to bzr
<nigel_nb> after I make a change I should commit it or is it before?
<BiosElement> nigel_nb: After
<nigel_nb> BiosElement: so, do u want me to make some changes?
<nigel_nb> and then commit?
<mhall119> basically you add a file once, and you commit every time you change it
<mhall119> nigel_nb: you have to commit the add too
<nigel_nb> oh ok
<BiosElement> nigel_nb: You can do that sure. Then I can show you how to upload to a personal branch on launchpad.
<nigel_nb> yep.. made a change and comitted it
<BiosElement> Great. Want to upload it to launchpad?
<nigel_nb> can I upload it and then delete it?
<BiosElement> Yep.
<nigel_nb> then I'd love to
<BiosElement> To do so you need to login to launchpad via bazaar so it knows who you are. The command is bzr launchpad-login $lpusername
<doctormo> OK and i'm back
<BiosElement> replace lpusername with whatever your login for launchpad is
<BiosElement> Welcome back doctormo ^_^
<doctormo> BiosElement: Do we want to do a short class?
<nigel_nb> BiosElement: did that some time earlier
<BiosElement> doctormo: Already in the middle of a bazaar/launchpad primer. ^_^ I'm taking notes of all the commands needed for the guide.
<BiosElement> nigel_nb: Well the next you just need to "push" the update to lp. If there isn't already a branch launchpad will create one for you.
<BiosElement> Be sure to replace userid with your loginname and branch-name with whatever you want.Command is bzr push lp:~userid/ubuntu-learning-materials/branch-name
<doctormo> BiosElement: Make sure to use `bzr branch lp:foo` instead of `bzr checkout lp:foo` because we want people to be able to work offline.
<BiosElement> doctormo: Of course. I always tell people to branch. ^_^
<nigel_nb> i get the error that it has uncommitted changes
<doctormo> BiosElement: tow stepping, I'll let you take if from here then :-D
<mhall119> did you commit you changes to README?
<mhall119> nigel_nb: do bzr status
<nigel_nb> its that random ~ file
<nigel_nb> comitted it now
<mhall119> oh
<BiosElement> doctormo: Feel free to jump in, I don't mind. ^_^
<mhall119> yeah, that probably got added by the bzr add *
<nigel_nb> yep
<BiosElement> mhall119: Suprising. I didn't think bzr would pickup on it. It's usually pretty good about not grabbing trash temp files.
<nigel_nb> when I do the actual learning material work, I have to take care of it
<nigel_nb> I'm more parial to vim anyway, so no trouble
<nigel_nb> *partial
<mhall119> BiosElement: you can setup .bzrignore I think
<BiosElement> mhall119: True, but I've actually never had too besides for something like eclipse files >.<
<doctormo> mhall119: You can, but by default it should have *.*~ in the regular expressions.
<BiosElement> nigel_nb: After you've finished the push you can find your branch here.(replacing userid and branch-name of course.) https://code.launchpad.net/~userid/ubuntu-learning-materials/branch-name
<nigel_nb> I get The authenticity of host 'bazaar.launchpad.net (91.189.90.11)' can't be established.
<nigel_nb> RSA key fingerprint is 9d:38:3a:63:b1:d5:6f:c4:44:67:53:49:2e:ee:fc:89.
<nigel_nb> is this normal?
<BiosElement> It is for me.
<nigel_nb> ok..saying yes
<mhall119> it may be the first time you're connecting to launchpad with ssh
<nigel_nb> yes
<nigel_nb> permission denied
<nigel_nb> I got "Permission denied (publickey)."
<mhall119> did you add your public key to launchpad?
<nigel_nb> yes
<BiosElement> Did you upload your public key? Double check it's the right key then. It's easy to mix them up.
<mhall119> what's your lp id?
<nigel_nb> nigelbabu
<mhall119> huh
<nigel_nb> https://launchpad.net/~nigelbabu
<nigel_nb> BiosElement: checked again
<mhall119> nigel_nb: do you have the file ~/.ssh/id_rsa ?
<BiosElement> nigel_nb: Well looks right to me...Probably some silly mistake I made. doctormo take a look at this. >.>
<nigel_nb> no
<nigel_nb> i only have known hosts there
<mhall119> where did you to ssh-keygen?
<nigel_nb> i think its in home
<mhall119> see if there is an id_rsa file there
<mhall119> it should be in the same place your public key was
<doctormo> nigel_nb: Interesting, this is why we really should finish off the 'init launchpad' code to sort all this rubbish out.
<mhall119> same name as your publci key, only without the .pub
<nigel_nb> my private key?
<mhall119> that's what we're looking for, yeah
<nigel_nb> yes
<nigel_nb> its in the home directory
<mhall119> it needs to be in ~/.ssh/
<BiosElement> Sorry, unexpected phone call. Should be done in just a few.
<nigel_nb> i should copy it there then?
<mhall119> mv it
<mhall119> files in your home directory are usually group readable
<nigel_nb> done
<mhall119> not try the bzr push command again
<mhall119> s/not/now
<doctormo> BiosElement: I'm going to head out to do some other chores, I think your handeling things well with mhall119
<doctormo> Thanks guys!
<nigel_nb> okay..the key problem is solved..I copied both my keys there
<mhall119> np doctormo
<nigel_nb> bye doctormo
<mhall119> nigel_nb: did the push work?
<doctormo> nigel_nb: Best to move them, you don't want your private key readable by anyone.
<mhall119> I see that it did
<nigel_nb> doctormo: oh. First time with keys
<nigel_nb> mhall119 a new problem
<nigel_nb> will give you paste bin
<nigel_nb> mhall119: http://paste.ubuntu.com/309063/
<mhall119> ah, different bzr repository formats it seems
<mhall119> nigel_nb: do bzr --version
<nigel_nb> is that because I'm trying to upload a txt instead of asciidoc?
<mhall119> nigel_nb: no
<mhall119> it's a bzr backend thing
<nigel_nb> what do u need from there?
<mhall119> just the version of bzr you have
<nigel_nb> 2.0.0
<mhall119> bzr is trying to create your branch built on top of the trunk2 branch
<mhall119> but they use different storage formats
<nigel_nb> oh
<nigel_nb> is there something I can do to test bzr now?
<mhall119> I see your branch was made
<mhall119> https://code.launchpad.net/~nigelbabu/ubuntu-learning-materials/setting-up-email
<mhall119> but I don't know enough about bzr to help with stacked branches and different formats
<nigel_nb> ok
<nigel_nb> how do i delete this branch?
<mhall119> well, I can't branch off your branch, so many it didn't work at all
<nigel_nb> got it deleted :)
<nigel_nb> from inside the launchpad account
<mhall119> bzr 2.0 must be using a new repository format
<nigel_nb> oh
<nigel_nb> so how I collaborate with the team?
<mhall119> if you branch from ubuntu-learning-materials, it will probably use a compatible format
<mhall119> I'd have to experiment to know for sure
<nigel_nb> u mean instead of adding my user name?
<mhall119> no
<mhall119> I mean, when you go to add to someone else's work, you will branch their code, instead of doing bzr init
<nigel_nb> oh that way
<mhall119> in that case, it will probably make your local branch use the same format as they are using for the team branch
<mhall119> for new stuff, you can specify a format when you do bzr init, I think
<mhall119> but again, I don't know enough about this to be sure
<nigel_nb> yea i got how to do it
<nigel_nb> I'll try again
<mhall119> you can run bzr help init to see all the options
<mhall119> BiosElement: you still around?
<BiosElement> I'm back, sorry I took so long
<mhall119> it's past my bed time, I need to call it a night
<mhall119> BiosElement: good, I didn't want to leave nigel_nb hanging
<nigel_nb> no probs mhall119... thanks a lot
<mhall119> I'll be around tomorrow
<BiosElement> Aight, Take care mhall119
<mhall119> see ya
<nigel_nb> mhall119  g nite
<nigel_nb> BiosElement: http://paste.ubuntu.com/309063/ tis is the error I get when I try to push
<BiosElement> Well that's a new one on me >.<
<mhall119> BiosElement: he's using bzr 2.0
<mhall119> which seems to have a new default repository format
<BiosElement> Well I
<BiosElement> Well I've used bzr 2.0 also and have yet to run into that problem. Launchpad should support it just fine >.<
<mhall119> I'm on 9.04 still, so I have bzr 1.13
<mhall119> BiosElement: it's trying to create a stacked branch on ubuntu-learning-materials/trunk2
<BiosElement> Hmmm
<mhall119> and that branch has a different repository format than the one he bzr init-ed
<mhall119> so it can't stack them
<mhall119> okay, I'm really going to bed now
<mhall119> good luck with this
<BiosElement> Yeah, I'm stumped. perhaps pleia2 may have an idea when she gets back but ive got no idea >.>
<nigel_nb> on the bazaar channel?
<BiosElement> Possibly. Worth a shot
<nigel_nb> BiosElement: got it done ... on my own :D
<nigel_nb> BiosElement: you want me to add a wiki page on it?
<BiosElement> Ahh, what'd you do?
<BiosElement> And great work btw. sorry I couldn't help more
<nigel_nb> it was a guess from what mhall119 told me
<nigel_nb> my version was 2.0.0
<BiosElement> Ahh cool
<nigel_nb> so i created a new folder and initd it to 1.9 format.. on instict
<nigel_nb> worked
<BiosElement> Hmm, strange that it did but good
<nigel_nb> BiosElement: now how do i delete it?
<nigel_nb> :D
<BiosElement> Go to the branch page and on the right there's a delete button for the branch
<nigel_nb> nothing from the command line... ah
<nigel_nb> I'll go through your material on asciidoc then :)
<nigel_nb> thanks a lot for your help
<nigel_nb> BiosElement: I'll create a how-to on the mailing list.. you could use it for the next newbie
<BiosElement> Aight Thanks. Your more then welcome for my help although I hope the process can be much smoother in the future. ^_^
<nigel_nb> yep...
<nigel_nb> and now to ascii doc
<BiosElement> Note that my branch of the asciidoc version is a draft and doctormo has made extensive revisions. >.<
<nigel_nb> when I first start working....
<nigel_nb> I just type into a txt?
<BiosElement> Yep. Pure .txt is best.
<nigel_nb> does it make sense on making this how-to in ascii docs?
<nigel_nb> dual purpose of me learning asciidoc and contributing
<BiosElement> Sure. That's how I'm making the Getting Started. http://paste.ubuntu.com/309031/ THat's a valid asciidoc file
<nigel_nb> oh
<nigel_nb> how do u get that asciidoc in a book format?
<BiosElement> Well not exactly a such thing as "book" format although I've used that term before. Typically I just generate html files using asciidoc filename.txt
<nigel_nb> that link to each other?
<BiosElement> Nope, it generates one long page. But you 'can' generate them seperate by making a different file for each chapter/section.
<BiosElement> We're still working out the exact details on how to organize things of course.
<nigel_nb> oh
<nigel_nb> now, when I'm creating a subsection, do I still upload it the way I did?
<BiosElement> Uploading should be exactly the same. The organization really has little to do with vcs. Just make sure you add the files and commit them before uploading.
<nigel_nb> oh okay :)
<nigel_nb> BiosElement: btw, do we generate the html before pushing?
<BiosElement> nigel_nb: No. Currently I think we should keep "generated" files out of the vcs because it'd be alot of outdated duplicated content and would take longer to up/download
<nigel_nb> BiosElement: but generate it locally and test it?
<BiosElement> nigel_nb: That's usually a good idea and that should be enforced for any main repositorys but for your personal one, it's up to you.
<nigel_nb> BiosElement: :) thanks... lemme get to work then
<BiosElement> nigel_nb: Let me know if you have any other problems ^_^
<nigel_nb> sure..
<nigel_nb> till what time are you up?
<BiosElement> Probably another hour or so.
<nigel_nb> oh ok
<nigel_nb> i'm going to work on setting-up-internet and this bzr guide on the same branch.. thats okay?
<BiosElement> That's fine. ^_^
<nigel_nb> great then
<nigel_nb> BiosElement: for windows and mac, is there a gui for bazaar?
<BiosElement> nigel_nb: IIRC yes. Not tried it on windows or mac but bazaar explorer should work. http://doc.bazaar-vcs.org/explorer/en/
<nigel_nb> BiosElement: when I write that page then I'll have to consider other OS and distributions of linux
<nigel_nb> :(
<nigel_nb> which expands it rapidly
<BiosElement> I'd just focus on ubuntu gnome for now and go from there later. ubuntu is the target audiance and I'd imagine most of the people contributing to the "Ubuntu" community learning project would be intrested in ubuntu >.<
<nigel_nb> hehe..true
<nigel_nb> I'll just title it differently
<BiosElement> Start with the basics, expand it later. It's easy to expand, not so easy to start. >.<
<nigel_nb> BiosElement: I agree completely
<nigel_nb> :D
<doctormo> Hey BiosElement, I'mback
<BiosElement> Great doctormo
<nigel_nb> hey doctormo
<nigel_nb> doctormo: I got oriented to bzr and gonna create a guide for that
<BiosElement> I'm off to sleep now.
<nigel_nb> night BiosElement
<doctormo_> nigel_nb: My IRC reset, can you tell me if you responded to my last message?
<nigel_nb> doctormo: I got oriented to bzr and gonna create a guide for that
<doctormo_> nigel_nb: Oh you didn't see my messages
<doctormo_> > nigel_nb: I set aside about an hour to go through things with BiosElement, do you want to go through the writing with me or are you happy with doing it all?
<nigel_nb> nope
<nigel_nb> I was thinking of writing it and then mailing the list
<nigel_nb> but since you're here, I'd love to work with you
<doctormo_> OK
<doctormo_> So you've got a log of everything that's been said?
<nigel_nb> yes
<nigel_nb> I got to the point where I finished setting up SSH
<doctormo_> nigel_nb: The best thing to do first (if you've not done it) is to create the teachers file, which lists all the requirements and most importantly a bullet point of topics.
<doctormo_> These topics go on to form the titles of each section you want to cover in the class.
<nigel_nb> do u have a standard file that I could use as template?
<nigel_nb> perhaps something from your sys-admin courses?
<doctormo_> nigel_nb: Yes, so we'll use that as a base, do you have lp:ubuntu-learning-materials checked out?
<nigel_nb> no
<nigel_nb> how do I do a checkout?
<doctormo_> nigel_nb: It's what you were taught before wasn't it?
<doctormo_> nigel_nb: `bzr branch lp:ubuntu-learning-materials`
<nigel_nb> doctormo_: we didn't go to checkout, but I figured it out
<nigel_nb> I have it now
<doctormo_> nigel_nb: Ah sorry, my terminology doesn't match what I expected you to do.
<doctormo_> My fault.
<nigel_nb> no prob :), i'm getting to know the terminology
<nigel_nb> doctormo: i've checked out ubuntu-learning-materials and its on my system
<doctormo> ok, now comes the fun part
<doctormo> nigel_nb: How long can you be online for
<nigel_nb> doctormo: another 2 hours
<nigel_nb> doctormo: probably 3 if absolutely necessary after a brk
<doctormo> nigel_nb: ok, lets do thign thing
<nigel_nb> doctormo: lets do it!! :)
<doctormo> what editor are you using? VI?
<nigel_nb> i have gedit and vi
<nigel_nb> can use both
<doctormo> cool , so I'm just commiting some mods, I want to make sure you get them
<doctormo> tell me the name of one of the new files.
<doctormo> Ah damn, one second, messed it up
<doctormo> ok pushed up revision 5
<nigel_nb> doctormo: how do I update my local version?
<doctormo> nigel_nb: while in the directory use `bzr pull`
<nigel_nb> +N  licence.README
<nigel_nb> +N  maintain/commandline-basics/authors
<nigel_nb> +N  maintain/computer-hardware/authors
<nigel_nb>  M  images.README
<nigel_nb>  M  maintain/icon.svg
<nigel_nb>  M  maintain/title.svg
<nigel_nb>  M  resources.README
<nigel_nb> okay.. now I'm getting the hang of it
<doctormo> OK lol
<doctormo> one would have been good
<nigel_nb> oops...didnt read that part lol
<doctormo> So we both have the same files
<nigel_nb> yes
<doctormo> you new thing I think should go in teaching (since it's a part of the internal project teaching to teach, teaching to create materials etc)
<doctormo> so cd into that
<nigel_nb> in teaching nw
<doctormo> and use mkdir to create a new directory for your class, give it a good name like 'bazaar-introduction'
<nigel_nb> done
<doctormo> now, copy in all the files from trunk2/maintain/commandline-basics/* into your new directory.
<nigel_nb> done
<doctormo> run a `bzr status` to confirm that you have new files
<doctormo> Or it shoudl say 'unrecognised' your new directory
<nigel_nb> it says unknwon
<nigel_nb> unknown: teaching/bazaar-introduction/
<doctormo> good
<doctormo> now I want you to edit the authors file you just copied over in your new class, make sure it says your name and email instead of mine.
<nigel_nb> ok
<nigel_nb> done
<doctormo> OK so the first job is to fill out the lesson-plan.txt
<nigel_nb> class sections would be... installation, configuration, creating lessons..
<nigel_nb> is that right?
<nigel_nb> or just installation and configuration?
<doctormo> slight confused
<nigel_nb> oh sorry
<nigel_nb> for learning about bazaar.. what would the sections be
<doctormo> Under List of Sections, you want to list out each of the titles in your class. Imagine that your teaching the class, you will flow from one thing to another to explain everythign and teach it.
<nigel_nb> okay
<doctormo> So the first thing maybe to introduce bzr, what it's for.
<doctormo> Introduction
<doctormo> you would title it
<nigel_nb> yes
<doctormo> Next you might move onto getting a branch out of launchpad using `bzr branch`, and the title would be 'Getting Files from Bazaar'
<doctormo> The introduction would probably introduce the user to the bzr command in the practical.
<nigel_nb> thts under demonstration?
<doctormo> It will be when we get to it
<doctormo> First the list of sections, then the requirements, then the demo file pointers.
<nigel_nb> okay
<nigel_nb> its a bit overwhelming initially
<doctormo> sorry nigel_nb, we don't yet have the "how to write" part wirtten yet, ironically.
<nigel_nb> hehe... but then you'd have to do this for every new person or train 5 people and get them to change everything to this format
<doctormo> Well to be honest, I'm writing tools to make this easier.
<nigel_nb> doctormo: oh great
<nigel_nb> so the requirements would be command-line basics
<doctormo> nigel_nb: yes, that would be a good start, also an ubuntu computer for each student for classroom and packages people should have installed.
<nigel_nb> but we are dealing with installation aren't we
<doctormo> Basically your adventuring and what you get stuck with will be helping us fix the process.
<doctormo> nigel_nb: Well this part is somethign the teacher will read to prepare for the class, they'll do the installs.
<nigel_nb> so when students come in, they have it installed already?
<doctormo> yes
<doctormo> so you say you require the bazaar package and anythign else that's not in the default install of ubuntu.
<nigel_nb> so, requirements are "command line basics"
<nigel_nb> wait.. whats difference between classroom basics and student basics?
<doctormo> nigel_nb: You'll see two topics, student and classroom requirements, commandline basics is a student requirement.
<nigel_nb> yea, I just realized
<doctormo> nigel_nb: computer per student, bazaar installed etc are classroom requirements.
<doctormo> maybe I could make that clearer... hmm.
<nigel_nb> from requirements to pre-requisites?
<nigel_nb> student will "need" to "need to know"
<doctormo> ok
<nigel_nb> ok. done
<nigel_nb> oh wait
<nigel_nb> not finished class sections yet
<nigel_nb> updating a branch? for adding a new content
<doctormo> nigel_nb: first you'll need a section that explains how pushing branches work, ownership of branches, and why they can't push to the one they pulled from.
<doctormo> But updating a branch should probably go before that
<nigel_nb> I think we'll have understanding Bazaar
<nigel_nb> and then Updating a Branch
<doctormo> nigel_nb: Should Getting a branch be before updating a branch?
<nigel_nb> yes
<nigel_nb> it is
<nigel_nb> 2 getting, 3 understanding 4 updating
<nigel_nb> but I'm inclined to put understanding 2 and then the rest
<nigel_nb> first explain the concept of bazaar and how it works
<nigel_nb> and then move towards "getting it", "working on it", and "updating it"
<doctormo> nigel_nb: Aye, I expected that would be a better way to do it.
<nigel_nb> doctormo: :)
<nigel_nb> * Installation* Understanding Bazaar* Getting a Branch* Working on a Branch* Updating a Branch* Adding a Branch
<doctormo> nigel_nb: explain, getting, updating, working with lp, ssh keys, pushing a new branch, repushing your branch
<doctormo> You don't need to cover installation, I don't think.
<nigel_nb> oaky
<doctormo> wait stick commiting between updating and working with lp
<doctormo> and then make sure to mention that you can work locally when you use the bzr branch command.
<nigel_nb> done
<doctormo> nigel_nb: Is this process makign sense to you?
<nigel_nb> yes
<nigel_nb> very much
<nigel_nb> SSH keys come into play here?
<nigel_nb> in that case it should be before working with launchpad rite
<doctormo> nigel_nb: Well with launchpad your introducing the idea that branches are online as well as offline, viewing them etc
<doctormo> nigel_nb: We should have a second section after keys that explains launchpad+keys perhaps, that's up to you.
<nigel_nb> doctormo: probaly we need Introduction to Launchpad and then working with launchpad
<doctormo> nigel_nb: possibly.
<nigel_nb> doctormo: okay, done
<doctormo> nigel_nb: Now with your topics written down (which may change as you write it) you can start thinking about each of the sections.
<doctormo> nigel_nb: each of those items should have a corisponding item under demonstration details, except change seconds to sections.
<doctormo> numbered of course.
<nigel_nb> doctormo: have to copy paste and make as many of them as the number of topics..which change from "seconds" to "sections" .  done
<doctormo> great, now, exit what ever editor your using
<doctormo> and see the directory marked sections
<nigel_nb> yes
<doctormo> nigel_nb: First think I recommend filling out introduction.txt, it explains what it's for int he file.
<doctormo> nigel_nb: After that, your creating a directory per section you make in the lesson_plan file, numbered as you did for the demontration includes.
<nigel_nb> okay
<doctormo> As I said, scripts will make this easier I hope :-D
<doctormo> And this will show me where they should focus.
<nigel_nb> doctormo: hehe.. so I'm the guinea pig lol
<doctormo> nigel_nb: someone had to do it ;-)
<nigel_nb> doctormo: hehe... happy to help.. plus i got to learn something new
<doctormo> My melatonin is starting to kick in, so I'll try and fit as much as I can into the next few mins so you can use your hour you have left to do some more and commit and push for tomorrow.
<doctormo> So each of those section directories contain a couple of files, the demonstration.txt files are instructions for teachers about how to do the demonstration for each of the sections.
<doctormo> The overview.txt is the file that contains the theory description, what your doing, why your doing it, any of the mechanical descriptions of how things work (and any diagrams that show it in action)
<doctormo> the practical.txt contains the instructions for the student, such as "run this command to get this result", "now run this command to get this other result" etc, it shouldn't contain too much explaination.
<doctormo> If you find yourself hurting between your overview and your practical, then it might be because you have two sections in one and they need to be split out.
<nigel_nb> doctormo: okay
<doctormo> Think abut it as alternating between "explain", "teacher demonstration" and then "student practical"
<nigel_nb> doctormo: some sections will not have a practical rite?
<doctormo> nigel_nb: All sections should aim to have all three, there is always something to do.
<nigel_nb> doctormo: okay, I'll work on it
<doctormo> nigel_nb: and don't worry if it sounds dumb, like "visit launchpad.com"
<nigel_nb> doctormo: :)
<doctormo> practicals are dumb instructions, like howtos.
<nigel_nb> okay :)
<nigel_nb> how do I commit this and push it
<doctormo> OK so the last thing you need to know, once you've crafted each of the sections, you'll want to update the overview.txt practical.txt and class.txt in the root, these basically just have includes for each of the sections.
<doctormo> "in the root of your class directory"
<doctormo> to commit it, you just go `bzr add [thing-to-add]` so you can add the directory and all the child parts will go in too.
<nigel_nb> ok
<doctormo> and then your normal `bzr commit`, you can use `bzr status` before your commit to make sure everything is going in.
<nigel_nb> doctormo: okay
<doctormo> then push it to your own branch once done.
<nigel_nb> just the class that I have done right?
<doctormo> `bzr push lp:~[username]/ubuntu-learning-materials/[new-branch-name]`
<doctormo> nigel_nb: Yes, you should see that class and all it's files added, commited and then pushed.
<doctormo> It's up to you if you edit any other files.
<nigel_nb> can i see a asciidoc converted version before pushing?
<doctormo> don't forget that your status, push and commits effect the entire branch, not just the directory your currently in.
<nigel_nb> ok
<doctormo> nigel_nb: You can, I think it's best to ask Bioselemnt about that, I think it outputs docbook and then outputs pdf and html.
<nigel_nb> okay... I'll get to work on this..
<doctormo> nigel_nb: thanks so much for working with me on it, the first class is always the slowest.
<doctormo> And you've been a big help already.
<nigel_nb> can i take a week?
<nigel_nb> doctormo: no particular time limit, is there?
<doctormo> nigel_nb: Can you be around each day or so and commit regular?
<nigel_nb> yes
<nigel_nb> I
<doctormo> "and push"
<doctormo> lol
<nigel_nb> I'll be here around the time that I as her today
<nigel_nb> hehe
<doctormo> Only this is one of those kickstart classes that does need to be done ASAP.
<doctormo> So a week is a good time, don't forget to ask if there are issues or unsures.
<nigel_nb> I'm close to having a headache so im thinkin of some rest... 2morrow I should be able to finish it
<nigel_nb> and put it up for review
<doctormo> nigel_nb: wonderful, hope I haven't caused the headache :-)
<nigel_nb> naah...work
<nigel_nb> I work nights
<nigel_nb> its close to afternoon now.. need to catch some sleep
<doctormo> ok, np, me too, you in some forien place?
<nigel_nb> I'm in India
<nigel_nb> and where are you?
<doctormo> Boston USA, but I'm british.
<doctormo> Which part of India?
<nigel_nb> pretty famous from US standpoint
<nigel_nb> Bangalore
<doctormo> Interesting, I was up in Vermont being a good Petyapa to my Tamil nefews. (can't spell sorry)
<nigel_nb> :)
<doctormo> Either way, Shukriyah nigel_nb
<nigel_nb> doctormo: wow....
<doctormo> And good night.
<nigel_nb> doctormo: good night and sweet dreams to you too :)
<weecol> hi
<ZachK_> any admins or team leaders around?
<pleia2> yes
<ZachK_> oh heya pleia2 or may i call you elizabeth?
<pleia2> elizabeth isn't in my hilight ;) so pleia2 or lyz is best
<ZachK_> roger roger
<ZachK_> well how are ya?
<pleia2> fine, at work
<pleia2> something I can help you with?
<ZachK_> oh nothing...just looking to help out
<ZachK_> if possible anyway
<pleia2> oh, you don't need an admin for that :) didn't vantrax already add you to the team in LP?
<ZachK_> link...
<pleia2> yes, you're already a part of the team
<ZachK_> oh ok
<ZachK_> well any projects
<pleia2> what areas were of interest to you? (sorry, I seem to have missed your intro)
<pleia2> review, gathering resources, course development, teaching, moodle?
<ZachK_> well what needs to be done? i'm strong with wiki work...(As if you don't know that =)
<pleia2> the wiki work on this project is pretty much confined to writing our course outlines on the wiki, we're leveraging existing wiki and other documentation for the core material itself
<ZachK_> ok
 * ZachK_ jams to beat
<pleia2> if you're interested, I just did an ubuntu open week presentation on the project yesterday, which will probably answer all your questions so far: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/openweekKarmic/Learning
<pleia2> I'm currently in the process of putting together a "joining the team quickstart" but I haven't finished yet, and have work now :\
<ZachK_> k
<ZachK_> heya paultag
<paultag> lo
<mhall119|work> pleia2: we ran into an issue last night with bzr 2.0 in 9.10 using a different repostory format than what is currently used by ununtu-learning-material
<mhall119|work> did you see that?
<pleia2> mhall119|work: eep, no
<mhall119|work> pleia2: yeah, someone figured out the way around it though
<mhall119|work> if you have bzr 2.0, and you're starting from scratch, you have to bzr init with the 1.9 format
<pleia2> interesting
<mhall119|work> thought it might be good to include in the quickstart guide
<mhall119|work> with so many people using 9.10 with bzr 2.0 now
 * pleia2 nods
<pleia2> thanks :)
<mhall119|work> sure
<pleia2> I'll touch base with BiosElement and doctormo later today, I think they were planning on taking the logs from last night and using them to whip together a quick guide
<mhall119|work> ok
<mhall119|work> BiosElement was there we we ran into this problem, so he will know what I'm talking about
<pleia2> ok, great
<pleia2> ooh http://doc.bazaar-vcs.org/explorer/en/
<pleia2> there is a ppa https://edge.launchpad.net/~bzr-explorer-dev/+archive/ppa
<mhall119|work> pleia2: I couldn't get it to dowk
<mhall119|work> work
<mhall119|work> the bzr explorer
<mhall119|work> it could never find qbzr
<wrst> mhall119|work: you had better act straight i see the boss is looking over your shoulder
<pleia2> aw darn
<mhall119|work> wrst: he's always looking over my shoulder
<mhall119|work> maybe he'll learn something while #ubuntu-classroom is up
<wrst> oh no not that boss... i'm talking about Michelle_Qimo i'm assuming that's mrs mhall119|work
<mhall119|work> also, I just worked straight through Jono's session, which I wanted to catch
<mhall119|work> wrst: oh, lol
<mhall119|work> she knows I lurk in IRC all day
<wrst> ha ha :)
<mhall119|work> that's usually how she talks to me while I'm at work
<mhall119|work> she's in #ubuntu-us-fl most of the time
<wrst> my wife isn't that cool i have to stay on gtalk for her :)
<mhall119|work> I can't run IM clients on my work computer
<wrst> ahh well i use finch adn screen at work i can run the clients but my machine is a little old so i need all the power i can muster
<mhall119|work> I have irssi and screen
<mhall119|work> finch was going to pull in all kinds of gstreamer stuff I didn't want
<wrst> i thought you probably had to have i thought you were onlnie all the time mhall119|work
<wrst> mhall119|work: yeah i couldn't figure that out why it needed allof that i just blindedly said yes to it all
<mhall119|work> irssi runs on my webserver 24/7 for this nick
<mhall119|work> I just ssh into it while at work
<wrst> same here
<wrst> well actually on my home server
<doctormo> Morning mhall119|work
<mhall119|work> morning doctormo
<mhall119|work> (2pm here)
<Michelle_Qimo> hhm, what am I doing now?
<mhall119|work> wrst thought you were going to catch me on IRC
<wrst> ha ha you have been caught it looks like
<mathry1029> hello any one alive in here?
<mhall119|work> me
<mathry1029> i have so many questions lol umm first off i guess i want to get my bcm4318 working .... and im an utter noob reading forums
<mhall119|work> okay
<mhall119|work> this isn't really a support channel, ubuntu-learning is a project to write instructional material to help people teaching others how to use Ubuntu
<mathry1029> heh well in that endevour im the perfect labrat...
<mathry1029> still hunting forums thanks tho
<mhall119|work> the #ubuntu channel is the official support channel
<mhall119|work> it's manned by community volunteers, and is usually very helpful
<mathry1029> umm i just tried /join #unbuntu and it went to empty space
<mathry1029> oops forgot i need to reg my nicj
<mhall119|work>  /join #ubuntu
<mhall119|work> you had one too many 'n's
<mathry1029> ty btw for the correction
<mhall119|work> no problem
<doctormo> pleia2: Wow that's a lot of channels you got open.
<pleia2> doctormo: yeah, I have a problem :)
<doctormo> pleia2: Is there an archive log of your OW session?
<doctormo> I'm posting a blog entry to raise some more attention.
<pleia2> doctormo: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/openweekKarmic/Learning
<doctormo> thanks!
<pleia2> sure thing, thanks for blogging about it :)
<doctormo> pleia2: It's the least I could do after you put in all that work.
<pleia2> doctormo: are you and BiosElement going to be tossing together some notes related to last night's bzr session?
<pleia2> I'd like to blog too, but I want to have a "quickstart to getting involved" page on the wiki first, including that
<BiosElement> pleia2: I'm already going to be working on the notes later tonight.
<pleia2> BiosElement: you're my hero! :)
<doctormo> pleia2: hopefully nigel_nb will write a course on it, but I'm going to write the clif notes in my blog now, so people can get in to it quickly.
<pleia2> excellent
<doctormo> BiosElement: Did you know nigel_nb was going to digest your bzr stuff into a class?
<BiosElement> doctormo: I knew he was working on something. Wasn't entirely sure what but it's fine with me.
<doctormo> BiosElement: What I really could do with is some help with a few helper scripts, are you python ready?
<pleia2> if we could have a rough draft by tomorrow it'd be really nice
<pleia2> so we don't lose this momentum with new contributors
<BiosElement> doctormo: Possibly. I can check and get back with ya. Was actually having some bugs with python yesterday >.<
<pleia2> doctormo: did nigel_nb give a timeline? I'll touch base with him later if I need to
<BiosElement> pleia2: That's what I was thinking. I'll  have to work with nigel_nb to figureout what the problem with bazaar 2.0's  format is too. Still not sure what the status is with that.
 * pleia2 nods
<pleia2> mhall119 was mentioning that issue earlier, keen to make sure that issue was mentioned in the how-to
<BiosElement> pleia2: I'm more keen to find out why the heck launchpad doesn't support it because it sounds like a pretty widespread major bug to me >.<
<pleia2> well yes, there is that :)
<doctormo> pleia2: He gave me a week, but I'll be pushing for him to have updates each day.
<pleia2> ok, great
 * pleia2 skips out to LUG meeting
<pleia2> later all
<doctormo> bye pleia2
<doctormo> http://doctormo.wordpress.com/2009/11/04/uow-the-ubuntu-learning-project/
<mhall119|work> BiosElement: I think the problem is that launchpad is making a stacked branch
#ubuntu-learning 2009-11-05
<doctormo> Did anyone see my blog entry?
<nigel_nb> hello everyone :)
<doctormo> Hey nigel_nb
<nigel_nb> doctormo: sorry I'm late.. got stuck at work
<doctormo> I was looking for your branch before, got distracted, sorry.
<nigel_nb> i haven't pushed it yet
<nigel_nb> you want me to push it at the end of every day? I haven't started
<doctormo> nigel_nb: I was just looking for it so I could show pleia2 and BiosElement that you'd be working on it.
<nigel_nb> oh..I'll push it then
<doctormo> nigel_nb: It's only super important to push after each session if you've made progress.
<doctormo> nigel_nb: So I leave it in your hands on each day.
<nigel_nb> I just have to push the bazar introduction folder rite?
<nigel_nb> doctormo: do you want me to push the whole thing up?
<cprofitt> night all
<doctormo> nigel_nb: Yes
<doctormo> This way I can see if my instructions were correct and we've added everything we set out to.
<nigel_nb> ok
<nigel_nb> doctormo: I'm not able to commit
<nigel_nb> bzr: ERROR: Cannot lock LockDir(lp-46132752:///~ubuntu-learning-board/ubuntu-learning-materials/trunk2/.bzr/branchlock): Transport operation not possible: readonly transport
<nigel_nb> do I need to create a new branch first?
<doctormo> nigel_nb: No, you have a branch
<doctormo> nigel_nb: The problem is that your trying to push to my branch
<nigel_nb> oh
<doctormo> nigel_nb: and your no allowed
<nigel_nb> I just tried to commit
<doctormo> nigel_nb: Did you see my blog entry today? http://doctormo.wordpress.com/2009/11/04/uow-the-ubuntu-learning-project/
<doctormo> nigel_nb: Ah so bzr commit didn't work? even though you did a `bzr branch` to get the code in the first place?
<nigel_nb> doctormo: oops.. missed the branch
<nigel_nb> doctormo: I added the files, but now again commit has a trouble
<nigel_nb> you have updated the branch, so its asking me to update the local branch...
<doctormo> nigel_nb: Same error?
<nigel_nb> different error
<nigel_nb> out of date with master branch RemoteBranch
<doctormo> nigel_nb: hmm, it sounds like your working from a checkout rather than a branch...
<doctormo> nigel_nb: But you could do a `bzr merge` to get you back up to date.
<nigel_nb> doctormo: why am I going into nano when I commit?
<BiosElement> nigel_nb: I know why. Hang on.
<doctormo> nigel_nb: Bzr has a standard editor which it uses for commiting
<BiosElement> Use bzr commit -m "your commit message"
<nigel_nb> BiosElement: ah, got it
<nigel_nb> BiosElement: another error
<nigel_nb> bzr: ERROR: Permission denied: "~nigelbabu/ubuntu-learning-materials/teaching/bazaar-introduction/": : Cannot create branch at '/~nigelbabu/ubuntu-learning-materials/teaching/bazaar-introduction'
<BiosElement> nigel_nb: Best guess is you made a branch for each folder? >.<
<nigel_nb> no I dont think I did... but is it wiser to start over?
<doctormo> nigel_nb: No, you have put in an extra /
<doctormo> nigel_nb: The name is not the directory of your files, it's simply a name of the branch
<doctormo> nigel_nb: `bzr push lp:~nigelbabu/ubuntu-learning-materials/my-bazaar-class-branch`
<nigel_nb> got it
<nigel_nb> doctormo: got it up there
<pleia2> doctormo: great post!
<doctormo> nigel_nb: Brilliant
<doctormo> pleia2: Glad you like it
<BiosElement> Wow this is amusing, Konqueror actually renders your blog correctly doctormo. That's a miracle >.<
<doctormo> BiosElement: LOL, so it should too!
<nigel_nb> doctormo: you should have a subscribe button on your blog
<nigel_nb> doctormo: its an amazing post.. seeing that I was the guinea pig for it :D
<nigel_nb> pleia2: hello :)
<BiosElement> nigel_nb:RSS Feed is http://doctormo.wordpress.com/feed/
<pleia2> hey nigel_nb, thanks for your help with these docs :) they're very important ones!
<nigel_nb> pleia2: no problem... I'm learning and teaching.. that sounds like fun :D
<nigel_nb> BiosElement: lazy to manually add it :D
<nigel_nb> night guys. can't think clearly...
<nigel_nb> will get some update to the branch by evening
<nigel_nb> BiosElement: still here?
<BiosElement> nigel_nb: For a few more minutes yes.
<nigel_nb> how do I see the final format of asciidoc
<BiosElement> As in the html output?
<nigel_nb> yea
<BiosElement> cd to the directory and run asciidoc filename.txt
<BiosElement> It'll generate an html file of the same filename in the directory
<nigel_nb> can I generate it elsewhere?
<BiosElement> I think so but I don't recall the command to do so.
<nigel_nb> BiosElement: thanks..
<nigel_nb> BiosElement: I'm tucking in..catch you later
<BiosElement> Aight nigel_nb
<MrShah> hello i'm reading this command vim -x file at http://xtremediary.blogspot.com/ but it not worked in ubuntu but working in fedora so hopw run this commands in ubuntu 8.10
<pleia2> MrShah: we're a course development project, you'll want to check out #ubuntu for support
<MrShah> ok
<MrShah> which cource develop uou like RHCE type
<mhall1191work> MrShah: community developed
<mhall1191work> it's not focused on certification
<mhall1191work> just teaching people how to use their Ubuntu OS
<doctormo> mhall1191work: Morning!
<doctormo> How are things going swoody
<mhall1191work> morning doctormo
<swoody> good morning doctormo :)
<swoody> I'm doing well, been occupied with a couple things online, and a few things IRL, but I'm going to take a crack at some of the agenda pages today :)
<swoody> And yourself?
<doctormo> swoody: Bit tired, not as much sleep as I would like.
<swoody> doctormo, I don't think anyone ever gets as much sleep 'as they'd like' ;)
<swoody> we'd all start work at noon, and alarm clocks would be a relic of the past :)
<doctormo> swoody: Nah, people would then complaint hat they need to sleep until 2pm
<doctormo> swoody: I think the problem is stress, I wasn't able to sleep for 2 hours last night.
<swoody> doctormo, ouch, sorry to hear that :/
<swoody> doctormo, have you ever tried sleeping aids? I've been using Melatonin for the past few weeks whenever I need it, and it has been working wonders :)
<swoody> plus it's all natural, and doesn't just 'knock you out' like most sleeping pills, it just helps you get there
<doctormo> swoody: Yea, tried that yesterday night, it made me very tired and still not able to sleep.
<swoody> doctormo, maybe try some yoga or a bubble bath to de-stress? ;)
<swoody> need something to relax, and get your mind off of whatever's causing you this stress :)
<doctormo> swoody: I might do some wii-fu+yoga if that counts.
<doctormo> I'm getting really good at snowball fighting too
<swoody> haha, well if it helps... ;)
<doctormo> Maybe I need to play some more Savage2, haven't played in a while and even though it makes my blood boil, perhaps it's that fustrations thing.
<swoody> also, (it may be hard for some) but electronic devices will actually keep you awake longer...
<swoody> they tend to stimulate your mind/senses, so it invigorates you
<swoody> so I would avoid it at all costs late in the evening
<doctormo> I'll be back soon, I'm going to have some fun, tis the day for it after all.
<swoody> haha, well take care doctormo :)
<nigel_nb> pleia2: ping
<nigel_nb> pleia2: was just going through the irc logs.. heard you wanted to touch base with me about the format thing.. I guess we'll talk later
<pleia2> nigel_nb: hey, am at work at the moment
<pleia2> just wanted to see where we were with it :) but looks like doctormo caught up with you last night
<nigel_nb> woops.. when do u get back?
<nigel_nb> yep. he did
<nigel_nb> will you be free by 01:15:00 UTC?.. will talk to you then..
<nigel_nb> I'm at work too
<doctormo> Hey everyone
<doctormo> swoody: I ended up playing Savage2 and yes, it did make me sware and curse. I don't know if that's a good thing.
<doctormo> hey airurando
<swoody> doctormo, haha, well how do you feel now?
<airurando> hello doctormo
<doctormo> swoody: Hungry
<swoody> doctormo, you should go out for a burger and a couple brews :)
<swoody> it's your big day after all! ;)
<swoody> make some friends take you (and pick up the bill)
<swoody> you shouldn't be hanging out with us on IRC :P
<doctormo> swoody: I'm going out for japanese in a bit, better to have Katsu Nekko style than an american burger.
<doctormo> swoody: Also, my Wii wished me a happy birthday, it's scary how much it knows about me.
<swoody> doctormo, that does sound good :)
<swoody> and that's kind of creepy... :/
<doctormo> swoody: It also said I'm not normal weight for a 7 foot person, which is good.
<swoody> haha, well that is really good :)
<swoody> are you really 7' tall IRL, or did you just set that up for your Wii toon?
<doctormo> swoody: I set it up that way because BMI is inncorrectly gadged.
<swoody> doctormo, yes it really is. I'm 6'4" and not unhealthy or overweight, but BMI really doesn't calculate in bone or muscle mass properly for me :/
<swoody> says 'proper' weight should be ~200lbs
<swoody> you show me a 200lb guy who's 6'4" and I'll show you a skinny, lanky person ;)
<doctormo> swoody: It's normally about 2 off for normal western weights and 3 off for taller people.
<doctormo> I'm 6'2" and a bit. And 226lb, so doing well I think.
<swoody> yeah, that's pretty good :)
<pleia2> swoody: w00t thanks, re: agenda work :)
<swoody> pleia2, oh it's still very much a work in progress :)
<pleia2> *grin* much more than it was yesterday!
<pleia2> when it was something-we-really-should-do
<pleia2> :)
<swoody> heh, well now it's something we're 'trying' to do ;)
<paultag> ello swoody!!
<swoody> hello paultag :)
<paultag> swoody, fancy meeting you here :)
 * swoody is everywhere....
<swoody> :)
<pleia2> swoody: I might recommend starting from current and going back in time
<pleia2> no huge deal if really old decisions aren't documented, but we do want the most recent ones at least
<swoody> pleia2, sounds good to me :)
<cprofitt> off to the LUG meeting
<cprofitt> see you at 11pm pleia2
<pleia2> cprofitt: yep! have fun at the LUG meeting :)
<swoody> take care cprofitt :)
<doctormo> pleia2: I'm going out for a meal, I'll be back in time for 11pm
#ubuntu-learning 2009-11-06
<doctormo> back
<pleia2> evening
<nigel_nb> pleia2: do we have some material in asciidoc that I can look at?
<pleia2> doctormo would be the one to ask
<pleia2> I think there is a branch or two out there
<nigel_nb> i remember seeing the logs that he'd be out for quite some time
<pleia2> he's around :)
<pleia2> or, BiosElement?
<doctormo> nigel_nb: Yes, the documents you've been editing are ASCIIdocs
<nigel_nb> doctormo: I just wanted to see another lesson that has been completed on ASCII docs
<nigel_nb> doctormo: I cant find any formatted this way
<BiosElement> Just a thought nigel_nb but if you just want examples the asciidoc has a viewsource button on every page.
<doctormo> nigel_nb: That's my fault, I wrote my 10 classes in odf and have been fairly bad at bringing them over.
<nigel_nb> BiosElement: its not about that kind of examples
<nigel_nb> I want to see doctormo or your work on asciidoc to get an idea to start
<nigel_nb> I guess I'll just start the way I know and let you guys review it
<doctormo> nigel_nb: I thought I'd already guided you through the start of writing the lesson plan?
<nigel_nb> doctormo: you did
<nigel_nb> doctormo: I just was wondering if i could see a "finished product"
<doctormo> nigel_nb: Let me try and get this copy and pasted for you, it shouldn't take too long, stand by please.
<nigel_nb> doctormo: sure.. thanks
<doctormo> I'm fighting myself on editing it, since this was the first class written I can do much better... must resist urges :-P
<nigel_nb> doctormo: hehe
<doctormo> nigel_nb: OK I've send some changes to trunk2 which should fill in the command line basics class more, that should give you some idea.
<nigel_nb> doctormo: thanks.. I've to pull it right?
<doctormo> nigel_nb: You have to pull yes, but you may have to commit your stuff first.
<nigel_nb> doctormo: amazing stuff.. now I got some sense of direction
<pleia2> \o/
<nigel_nb> aw... classes were that short.. phew.. I was picking my brains for content
<ZachK_> hi team
<ZachK_> hello?????
<nigel_nb> doctormo: finished the first section..
<nigel_nb> doctormo: I'm gonna push it, can just take a peek?
<ZachK_> nhandler: help
<doctormo> nigel_nb:
<nigel_nb> doctormo: yes
<doctormo> nigel_nb: Sure thing, just finishing off with some board business
<nigel_nb> doctormo: oh cool
<ZachK_> nhandler:
<nigel_nb> doctormo: when you get time, gimme some feedback on it so that I can continue in the same manner (section 01)
<nhandler> Yes ZachK_ ?
<ZachK_> nhandler: nigel_nb told me i could talk to you about getting my channel back?
<doctormo> cprofitt: Would you like to talk here more about the direction of things?
<cprofitt> Not currently doctormo I need sleep as does pleia2
<doctormo> Aye aye, cprofitt, let me know, because this vision thing is most acute between us I think.
<cprofitt> I will...
<cprofitt> I will try to get it all written down and send you an email...
<cprofitt> good night all
<nigel_nb> night cprofitt
<doctormo> nigel_nb: Review, you've not replaced "Section 01" in the header lines, it's best to put in what this part is about, i.e. in mine I have "Introducing the Command Line"
<ZachK_> doctormo: such as the page title then the first topic header then a sub header on what that topic is about
<ZachK_> doctormo: correct?
<nigel_nb> doctormo: It should be Introduction to Bazaar - Bazaar Introduction?
<doctormo> ZachK_: Sorry, I think I'm out of context.
<ZachK_> doctormo?
<doctormo> nigel_nb: Introduction to Bazaar belongs in the class pages in the root, the rest of it is yes in the section.
<doctormo> ZachK_: I mean to say that I don't think I understand what your saying, could you repeat?
<ZachK_> doctormo: first you have the page title. then you have your first Header or the TOPIC HEADER. under that you have a sub header of what the topic will cover
<nigel_nb> doctormo: So, every time I see "<Section 01>" I should replace it with "Introduction to Bazaar"?
<nigel_nb> doctormo: I did lose you in that explanation
<doctormo> ZachK_: Yes, but in these files, they apear split up.
<ZachK_> ah ok
<ZachK_> doctormo: want my assistance?
<doctormo> nigel_nb: Sorry, where you see <Section 01> or just "Section 01" you need to have the section name, such as "Bazaar Introduction" or "Security Keys"
<doctormo> ZachK_: If you like, you can download nigel_nb's branch and follow allong.
<nigel_nb> oh, I'm supposed to replace the entire thing with section heading...
<nigel_nb> ah, now I get it
<ZachK_> yes nigel_nb
<ZachK_> nigel_nb: the section header is or at least can be one of the most important part of a page
<doctormo> nigel_nb: I think this might be a sticking point that we might have to fix, so don't be surprised if I change this so you don't have t repeat the title 3 times.
<nigel_nb> doctormo: you've put the template as "<Section 01> Overview"
<nigel_nb> so I thought <Section 01> was something I shouldn't touch, I want to ask you though when i saw that you didn't have it
<nigel_nb> *wanted to ask
<doctormo> nigel_nb: Nope, anything like that is editable, none of these files are scripted like that. (although it would be nice)
<nigel_nb> doctormo: so the overview would be "Introduction to Bazaar - Overview" ?
<nigel_nb> or "Introduction to Bazaar Overview"?
<doctormo> nigel_nb: One second,
<nigel_nb> doctormo: ?
<doctormo> nigel_nb: OK, I think we should put aside changing those headers for now. Until we've got a game plan for making it make sense.
<nigel_nb> hehe..okay
<doctormo> nigel_nb: So I think your pages look great :-)
<nigel_nb> doctormo: thanks, then I'll continue with it...
<nigel_nb> doctormo: hopefully by Wednesday, I should have that module ready
<nigel_nb> doctormo: did u guys decide anything on the table?
<doctormo> nigel_nb: perfect, we'll do some in depth peer review on the mailing list, so post your "course ready" on the mailing list, with a link to the launchpad code point.
<doctormo> nigel_nb: tables?
<nigel_nb> doctormo: was on the mailing list, the module list being converted into tables
<doctormo> nigel_nb: nothing on that is decided I don't think.
<nigel_nb> doctormo: hmm
<nigel_nb> doctormo: btw, nothing about my course on the module list....
<doctormo> nigel_nb: Where is the module list?
<nigel_nb> doctormo: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Learning/TeachingTopics
<doctormo> nigel_nb: Ah! add it, or do you want me to add it?
<nigel_nb> doctormo: I'll do it, I just wanted your go ahead, where do I put it?
<nigel_nb> doctormo: after which topic?
<doctormo> nigel_nb: See that "development process" you should add one above that called "Introduction to Bazaar" and then link to your LP branch on launchpad and say that your working on it in (brackets)
<nigel_nb> doctormo: okay
<doctormo> sorry it took me a second to cotton onto what you were saying.
<nigel_nb> doctormo: no problem :)
<nigel_nb> doctormo: done :)
<nigel_nb> doctormo: i'm off to learn some Moodle
<nigel_nb> doctormo: oh and by the way.. if I develop a new topic, I can keep it in the same branch?
<doctormo> nigel_nb: You could, but best practice is to make a new branch per class so that merge requests (which we get into later) are clearer.
<nigel_nb> oh, so I gotta clean up the current branch right?
<doctormo> nigel_nb: Wait, your expected to have all the sections of a class in the same branch, what other thigns do you have?
<nigel_nb> actually I have the entire trunk up
<doctormo> nigel_nb: No, what I mean is, what else have you modified? I understand that the entire trunk comes to you.
<nigel_nb> i haven't done anything else
<nigel_nb> but i
<doctormo> nigel_nb: It's not what files you have, it's what files you modify, it's the change set per branch.
<nigel_nb> doctormo: I've claimed setting up email
<nigel_nb> doctormo: so i need to rename by branch...
<doctormo> nigel_nb: It's ok for this first one, next time, a new branch name.
<nigel_nb> doctormo: okay :)
<nigel_nb> doctormo: changed
<Elessar_81> good morning
<ZachK_> Elessar_81: good morning to you
<Elessar_81> i found this project via a blog entry by Martin Owens. it is very interesting
<ZachK_> Elessar_81: nice
<ZachK_> Elessar_81: feel free to talk to us and also you might want to check out the BT Team
<pleia2> welcome Elessar_81
<Elessar_81> what is BT?
<ZachK_> Beginners Team
<ZachK_> It's for helping new users to Ubuntu and getting them acclimated to the OS itself...
<pleia2> Elessar_81: cool, what interests you - course development? teaching? other things?
<ZachK_> and yes experienced users help new guys
<ZachK_> pleia2: hey!.....my convert!
<ZachK_> pleia2: kidding =)
<pleia2> ZachK_: hm?
<Elessar_81> ah ok, sry. i'm originally from Germany but i will move to Portland, Maine soon. i spend 3 years studying electrical engineering and 3 years studying computer science. i'm interested in development and teaching
<pleia2> hooray portland, maine :)
<ZachK_> Elessar_81: teaching? nice =)
<pleia2> great
<Elessar_81> yes but i think more like teaching localy
<Elessar_81> in person
<ZachK_> ah..
<pleia2> cool, Martin Owens is already doing a lot of that down in massachusetts with this coursework
<ZachK_> Elessar_81: so what interests you concerning Ubuntu/Linux?
<pleia2> he's written about 10 courses so far in the sysadmin category, and has been doing intro classes for quite some time that have yet to be put to paper, so to speak
<Elessar_81> well i like the community support, in germany as in the USA. it helped me a lot while discovering ubuntu a couple of years ago.
<ZachK_> ok pleia2 i'm outa here as you know more about the Learning project than I do atm
<pleia2> ZachK_: ok
<pleia2> Elessar_81: does the german team do teaching too?
<Elessar_81> i don't think so not that i know. there are some loco teams that have meetings with special topics and presentations
 * pleia2 nods
<pleia2> you can check out links to Martin's blog where he has a bunch of courses already by checking out https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Learning/SystemAdminTopics
<pleia2> just scroll down to "System Administration Basics Course"
<Elessar_81> thanks i check it out
<pleia2> we're working on a more formal "quickstart guide" for new contributors, but until then feel free to check out the rest of our stuff and let us know if you have any questions :)
<Elessar_81> sure thanks
<doctormo> pleia2, we don't have a project in launchpad for the ubuntu-learning project it's self, only one for moodle code and one for materials. should I just attach blueprints for UDS to the materials?
<pleia2> doctormo: we have launchpad.net/~ubuntu-learning
<pleia2> which keeps track of members, and is probably appropriate
<doctormo> pleia2: That's a group, it's asking for a project.
<pleia2> oh :)
<pleia2> yeah, just attach it to the materials
<doctormo> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu-learning-materials/+spec/ubuntu-learning-development
<doctormo> I set the approver to the board
<pleia2> excellent :)
 * pleia2 subscribes
<Doorman352> is this for general learning or for accreditation?
<mhall119|work> learning
<pleia2> doctormo: wanna drop a note to the list with the blueprint link?
<doctormo> pleia2: sure thing'
<pleia2> thanks for doing that, I am still a blueprint n00b :)
<doctormo> pleia2: Email sent
<doctormo> BiosElement: wow installing asciidoc sucks in 250MB of debs
<doctormo> It's ruby + docbook + latex + texlive (and every plugin) + asciidoc, so it's like everything all in one.
<pleia2> ah, I didn't even realize because I already had docbook and all the latex stuff installed
<doctormo> sorry, it's actually 30MB.
<doctormo> Just one package is 30MB 'texlive-pstricks-doc', that's a A LOT of docs since it's compressed.
<doctormo> BiosElement: Ping, I found the asciidoc commands I needed, I'm shaping some scripts to do the work now.
<BiosElement> doctormo: Aight, Great work. ^_^
<doctormo> BiosElement: How is what your doing, going?
<BiosElement> doctormo: Not bad. Just working on getting my bazaar setup again >.<
#ubuntu-learning 2009-11-07
<cprofitt> pleia2, you here?
<cprofitt> doctormo, you here?
<doctormo> cprofitt: sure am
<pleia2> hey
<cprofitt> cool :-)
<pleia2> oh - WRT monday, I don't actually have a lug meeting, we moved it to tuesday
<pleia2> so we can meet up before 11PM ;)
<cprofitt> do we have time to hash out some of the 'foundation' items I was talking about?
<doctormo> yes
<pleia2> yep
<cprofitt> k...
<cprofitt> let me try to explain, the best I can, the concept I have in my head
<cprofitt> I saw UCLP as a vehicle to enable others to contribute 'courses' to the community
<cprofitt> to do that our 'main' focus would be developing a framework for those courses to be developed and published in.
<cprofitt> we also might 'recruit' course writers and trainers
<cprofitt> give advice on how to 'deliver' an in-person class or IRC class, etc
<cprofitt> is that something you guys can agree with?
<pleia2> I think so
<pleia2> I think it's the specifics of "developing a framework for those courses to be developed and published in" is what is unclear
<cprofitt> ok... let me try to clarify
<cprofitt> we need to develop the framework -- wiki (discuss/brainstorm/organize), asciidoc (base format), PDF (in-person/IRC handouts), Moodle (synchronous or asynchronous) on-line learning
<cprofitt> so that is, I believe, our intended framework...
<cprofitt> courses obviously are part -- material to read and then 'knowledge evaluation' in the form of assignments or questions.
<cprofitt> in our case we are not grading anyone -- so the evaluation is more of a guide for a person to know if they have to review more
<cprofitt> its an understanding check
<cprofitt> so we also have to have what we consider the basic components of a course (which cross platforms) and perhaps some parts that are particular to a format.
<cprofitt> following?
<cprofitt> To give an example:
<doctormo> The way I sort of understand it is, you have material creation, teacher preperation and then the class organisation aspects.
<doctormo> So there may be a function of pleia2 or myself having some sort of framework for recording what classes we're going to teach, or encouraging others to record when classes will be taught.
<cprofitt> In-Person courses would have a teacher outline... an Asynchronous Moodle course would simply have a course outline for the student... or objectives
<cprofitt> I would not call it recording...
<cprofitt> but we may have people who are not familiar with writing curriculum
<doctormo> cprofitt: Internal teaching?
<pleia2> sorry, getting dragged off by texans
 * pleia2 catches up
<cprofitt> and we should help them to understand what a course consists of
<cprofitt> so they can take their knowledge and build a useful course
<cprofitt> doctormo, its like how you organized some of your courses...
<cprofitt>     * Lesson Plan for teachers
<cprofitt>     * Presentation Slides
<cprofitt>     * Overview Sheet
<cprofitt>     * Practical Sheet
<cprofitt>     * Cheat Sheet
<cprofitt>     * Sample Files
<cprofitt> I think the common features would be the Lesson Plan, Overview, Practical
<cprofitt> though in Moodle the practical is the 'questions' in quizzes or assignments that people are asked to complete
<cprofitt> Slides -- would be course material, but Moodle would not call them slides
<doctormo> Aye, teaching that is important, I've always thought so.
<cprofitt> if you follow
<cprofitt> a person who knows a cubic butt-tonne about debugging may not know how to make a course properly
 * pleia2 nods
<doctormo> I would call that the mechanics of course writing, getting the jist of how a lesson is layed out best and so forth.
<cprofitt> so we need to have an outline for each course type -- as some components of in-person courses do not work well in IRC courses
<cprofitt> etc
<cprofitt> doctormo, yes...
<cprofitt> I think we should have outlines or 'templates' for people to follow
<doctormo> One of the things I wanted to do was gather a handful of classes in the teching section and then schedual regular lessons in here for our contributors.
<cprofitt> for me this is important to really taking 'volunteers' and having them be able to contribute
<cprofitt> sounds good doctormo
<cprofitt> ...
<cprofitt> this is why I thought we should each write one course in each format...
<cprofitt> then work through as a team -- what worked and did not work about it --
<doctormo> cprofitt: Since i've taught a person how to do the asciidoc stuff, and even though it's not perfect, would you like to go through it with me?
<cprofitt> and revise it...
<cprofitt> so we all feel comfortable with the 'parts'
<cprofitt> doctormo, I would.
<cprofitt> In a perfect world though we should have you write a course on it...
<cprofitt> and then in the process of my learning it I can transcribe it to asciidoc
<cprofitt> I mean from asciidoc to Moodle
<cprofitt> then we will have an in-person course and Moodle course on using asciidocs
<cprofitt> then I can write a course on how to use Moodle (the one I uploaded was brutally bad)
<doctormo> Yes, that sounds efficient, there are some quirks I need to work out still remaining. TBH I've not been as attentive as I would have liked to my list of things to do on those classes.
<cprofitt> and you can take that course and transcribe it in to asciidco
<doctormo> cprofitt: That sound sgreat
<cprofitt> then again, we have two courses one in each format...
<cprofitt> then pleia2 can take both and see if we can fit them as IRC courses as well
<pleia2> I think the quirks of the workflow will get sorted out as we start plowing into development
<cprofitt> now we have our 'templates' that also serve as lessons on how to 'build' a course
<cprofitt> pleia2, I agree...
<doctormo> cprofitt: Can you script at all? write code?
<cprofitt> but I think developing the courses that help other people write courses is likely a more fruitful venture than some of the other items we have on the list so far.
<popey> its certainly a good place to start
<cprofitt> doctormo, I can write in C#, do a bit of PowerShell, a bit of Bash, VB.net, and a bit of Python
<pleia2> yeah, which is why the work doctormo has been doing with BiosElement and nigel_nb is so important right now
<cprofitt> thanks popey - I think it works to kill three birds with one stone
 * doctormo winces
<cprofitt> poor birds
<doctormo> I think so.
<cprofitt> they were just virtual doctormo :-)
<pleia2> hehe
<doctormo> To clarify, I think writing those courses is a good idea
<cprofitt> good...
<cprofitt> that relieves me...
<doctormo> I know we will have to rewrite them a few times as we go through it
<cprofitt> because I think it does the following:
<cprofitt> A)  Gets courses written
<cprofitt> B) Trains others
<cprofitt> C) refines our workflow
<cprofitt> wait... a few more
<popey> teach a $person to $activity
<cprofitt> D) Helps the team 'gel' by understanding each other
<cprofitt> lol
<cprofitt> yep, popey
<cprofitt> we also need to develop a course on BZR -- for those that may not be familiar with that and want to participate
<cprofitt> so... in the next few weeks I will focus on writing a course on using Moodle.
<cprofitt> Doc and bios can write a course on using asciidoc
<pleia2> yes, nigel_nb is writing the bzr course
<cprofitt> great
<pleia2> bios has written an asciidoc course
<pleia2> so we're well on our way :)
<cprofitt> pleia2, do you have a link to that... I want to bookmark it
<cprofitt> that way I can plan on starting to transcribe it to Moodle when I get done with the Moodle course
<pleia2> doctormo: are these accessible by normal people in bzr?
<pleia2> they might both still be in development
<doctormo> pleia2: available in not trunk branches
<doctormo> none*
<cprofitt> so... our courses on how to use asciidoc, bzr and Moodle will be in 'spread ubuntu' section right?
<doctormo> cprofitt: So far they've been going into How to Teach
<doctormo> Although the sense of that is tagental.
<pleia2> teach ubuntu
<cprofitt> http://learn.ufbt.net/course/index.php?categoryedit=on
<cprofitt> I was looking at what was in Moodle...
<cprofitt> perhaps I need to change one of the categories?
<pleia2> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Learning/TeachingTopics is what you're talking about
<pleia2> and that's our "How to Teach"
<pleia2> which isn't a category there in moodle
<doctormo> Aye, the one with the morterboard.
<cprofitt> Publishing to Moodle (and why you can't) ?
<pleia2> I think "and why you can't" is because "our moodle site isn't done yet"
<doctormo> I always felt like that category was for sort of internal training of all kinds, moodle, teaching, asciidoc, bzr, anything that gets contributors up to speed.
<pleia2> but the moodle site is fine, we can finish theming later
<doctormo> Aye, that was written ages ago, can be removed IMO
<cprofitt> k -- I can add the category...
<cprofitt> woah... we are removing How to Teach... I just got lost
<pleia2> no no, removing "(and why you can't)"
<cprofitt> ok...
<pleia2> because we can publish to moodle now! :)
<pleia2> but yes, please add the How to Teach category to moodle
<cprofitt> http://learn.ufbt.net/course/index.php?categoryedit=on
<cprofitt> added the category
<pleia2> yay :)
<doctormo> Perfect
<doctormo> cprofitt: sorry about my unclarrity.
<cprofitt> doctormo, no big deal... it was nice to just flesh it out...
<cprofitt> I will start to work on the Moodle course and put the installation course on hold
<cprofitt> feel free to look at that one or the other that are already published there
<cprofitt> I need to go spend some time with the children... then get them off to bed...
<cprofitt> bbiab
<doctormo> cprofitt: Sounds like a good way forward, I will work on the bzr and asciidoc sections, although I'd also like some time to do a few of these scripts that will produce the pdfs, htmls and help illiminate the bzr complexity by dealing with the users keys for them.
<pleia2> yay scripts
<cprofitt> pleia2, and doctormo are you both still here?
<cprofitt> pleia2 you in the room?
<pleia2> cprofitt: getting ready to head to bed
<pleia2> I want to be on the road by 10AM tomorrow, so I can't stay up late :)
<cprofitt> tell me what you think of this -- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-p2KqU7QD4
<cprofitt> when you get a chance...
<cprofitt> not tonight
<joe__> I am unable to play video... 9.10, fresh install get "internal data stream error" any ideas?
<doctormo> Hey swoody, how are things going?
<swoody> doctormo, oh I can't complain, thank you :)
<swoody> doctormo, how did your birthday turn out??
<doctormo> swoody: Good, I got a hard drive and taken out to dinner twice, both times had lovely chicken katsu.
<swoody> doctormo, very nice :)
<doctormo> Thanks, and yourself? good weekend?
<nigel_nb> doctormo: belated birthday wishes :)
<swoody> doctormo, so far :)
<swoody> been working a bit harder trying to find work, so hopefully something comes of it :)
<swoody> have some really great leads from some Chicago Loco guys
<doctormo> thanks nigel_nb :-) so many good wishes.
<nigel_nb> doctormo: not as bad as mine
<doctormo> swoody: Sounds good, our LoCo Karmic party is tonight
<nigel_nb> doctormo: kept getting calls from 12 am
<swoody> doctormo, very nice! I hope you guys have a great time :)
<doctormo> nigel_nb: What kind of calls?
<nigel_nb> till 4 p.m., I think by buddies coordinated it.... birthday wishes
<doctormo> swoody: We shall see, I think the venue will be too small, but we shall see.
<swoody> doctormo, ours is next Saturday, where I'll also be giving a presentation on Folding@Home :)
<nigel_nb> doctormo: my phone was ringing every 30 mins or so
<swoody> doctormo, well, it'll be 'intimate' then ;)
<doctormo> nigel_nb: That's brilliant, that means you have some really good, close knit friends.
<nigel_nb> doctormo: yeah.  :)
<doctormo> swoody: No presentations at ours, just drink, food and social talk. We save the work for Tuesdays since we do that every week.
<swoody> heh, yeah I'm sure there will be no shortage of drinking and socializing ;)
<swoody> that is pretty nice that you guys get together once a week...
<swoody> the Chicago LUG is like that, but not the Loco :/
<nigel_nb> doctormo: is there a plenary about uclp at the uds?
<doctormo> nigel_nb: No, but there is a session for it.
<nigel_nb> doctormo: when is it scheduled, is that ready yet?
<doctormo> nigel_nb: I don't know if it's scedualed yet, but it is a blueprint
<nigel_nb> doctormo: if possible, I'll participate as a remote user
<doctormo> nigel_nb: Of course, we hope to put it on IRC, and you might be able to dial in for sound.
<nigel_nb> oh great :)
<nigel_nb> do update the mailing list with the room and time
<doctormo> OK, it'll go on the schedual for UDS, so it might change, but I'll try and keep everyone posted.
<nigel_nb> great. thanks doctormo :)
#ubuntu-learning 2009-11-08
<pleia2> sitting here with cprofitt :)
<doctormo> Hey starcraftman
<doctormo> And summerhome and airurando, lots of people I haven't seen before :-)
<airurando> with of course the ultimate hopeful goal of contributing to the learning project if I feel I can be of use.;-)
<doctormo> airurando: What do you feel you want to contribute?
<airurando> doctormo: very early days for me yet.  certainly not technical.  Need to review the IRC sessions again and then delve into the wikis.  Most probably as a reviewer initially but I would be interested in seeing how links are developed between Ubuntu Learning and Ubuntu Documentation.  Even at this very early stage of understanding I feel strong symbiotic links should exist between these two ubuntu communities.
<starcraftman> ah ha, airurando, we meet again! Decided to come peek into learning eh?
<nigel_nb> starcraftman: losing another? :D
<airurando> starcraftman: Yes indeed prompted by your good self infact.
<starcraftman> nigel_nb: naw. I met him in the doc openweek session. airurando hehe, have fun. Lots of good folks. Just don't forget to do some wiki pages, or you'll make starcraftman sad!
<airurando> starcraftman: It is definately on my todo list.  Be patient I am very new to all this but i certainly wouldn't want to make you sad!
<nigel_nb> starcraftman: haha
<starcraftman> airurando: Oh I keed, I can let doctormo and bodhizazen steal ya away for their cool project. It's about what most interests ya :).
<starcraftman> airurando: I gave ya the wiki fg page if your interested eh?
<airurando> starcraftman: what is fg? Anyway please do as I'm trying to gain a better understanding of all this.
<starcraftman> fg = focus group, part of the beginners team. It's a separate group I'm part of. the wiki fg is a subsection (focus group) that works with doc-team. You'll find many of our members are well... everywhere. learning project for instance, forums, launchpad...
<starcraftman> airurando: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/FocusGroups/Wiki < wiki page.
<starcraftman> and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam < The home page of team. Just to be clear, ya don't need to join bt to be part of learning or doc-contributors, it's a separate group, we just happen to do work for many others.
<starcraftman> airurando: anyway, best get back on topic, this is learning channel anyhow hehe.
<airurando> starcraftman: Thanks for those
<starcraftman> no problemo
<airurando> links (sorry)
<doctormo> It's cool to see people involved in multiple groups, the more doing both, the better the relationship will be.
<starcraftman> doctormo: I agree. now back to discrete math I guess.
<nigel_nb> doctormo: ping
<doctormo> nigel_nb: pong
<nigel_nb> doctormo: ah
<nigel_nb> doctormo: I wondering, should I write the bazaar module for an audience of new comers to our project or general?
<nigel_nb> i'm working on it right now and got stumped by that
<doctormo> nigel_nb: Target it towards new people coming into our channel.
<doctormo> nigel_nb: I'm sure there will be a bazaar class that shares with this one in develop, but this one is sort of internal classes.
<nigel_nb> doctormo: okay...lemme get on then
<nigel_nb> doctormo: trying to finish it today... in a few hours
<doctormo> nigel_nb: Thank You! and good luck, I'm trying to motivate myself to keep going with the scripts.
<Vantrax> I have a draft done for the roles stuff, ill throw it on the wiki tonight
<doctormo> Vantrax: how are you?
<Vantrax> going ok
<doctormo> Vantrax: Thanks for getting the rolls done, this is the one that shows where each contributor can be helpful right?
<Vantrax> yep
<Vantrax> and how it all fits together
<doctormo> Vantrax: Did you read the archive for the ways in which moodle and asciidoc fit together when me and cprofit were talking about it?
<Vantrax> not really >.<
<doctormo> Ah, I just have to step out for a few, bbs.
<doctormo> Vantrax: It's not really important, but you might find it interesting.
<Vantrax> will find it
#ubuntu-learning 2010-11-11
<peppe84> In italian group documentation we want create irc session to learn how to use our wiki (3 o 4 lessons). are any slide with new brand logo? In all I see the old cof. bye
 * peppe84 is away: Me ne sono andato per i fatti miei
#ubuntu-learning 2011-11-08
<lalatenduM> Hii folks
<lalatenduM> I want to fix bugs for Ubuntu
<lalatenduM> but I am new to Linux dvelopment..SO I am thinking of starting from  Packaging Ubuntu packages
<lalatenduM> any suggestion
<pleia2> lalatenduM: you want #ubuntu-motu for packaging questions
<lalatenduM> just wanted to know..if somebody want to become a ubuntu dev..is motu is the right path?
<pleia2> yes
<pleia2> but if you just want to work on bugs you can join #ubuntu-bugs
<pleia2> packaging and bug work are both great things, you can join whichever you want, or both :)
<lalatenduM> thanks..
<lalatenduM> I am just a beginner..and so just wanted to make sure ..i am not hurrying things
<lalatenduM> :)
