#ubuntu-uk 2011-03-07
<bigcalm> AlanBell: http://cuth.eu/resize
<ikonia> my quest for a solid intel based motherboard and quadcore cpu continues
<HazRPG> my quest for a c64 disk drive does :P
<ikonia> HazRPG: do you really want one ?
<ikonia> I have about 4
<ikonia> maybe more
 * hamitron has decided to stick with dual core with his new comp
<HazRPG> ikonia: really? The actual disk drives?
<HazRPG> :o!
<HazRPG> ikonia: I just recently won a bid for a c64 off ebay :)
<hamitron> :)
<ikonia> HazRPG: the 1541 drives
<HazRPG> but I would like to be able to move stuff between PC and c64
<ikonia> 3 different generations
<HazRPG> yeah that's the one
<hamitron> can't the c64 support a network?
<ikonia> hamitron: ther is a retro fit
<ikonia> HazRPG: I must have about 500 disk for them
<HazRPG> ikonia: amazing! :o
<HazRPG> are you a collector?
<ikonia> not intentionally
<hamitron> :)
<HazRPG> :)
<hamitron> ffs
<hamitron> damn timeouts :/
<HazRPG> ikonia: just out of interest, how'd you get so many?
<ikonia> HazRPG: long time user, thats the only reason
<HazRPG> ikonia: awesome
<HazRPG> ikonia: I've never used one until recently (emulators, trackers, etc)
<HazRPG> I owned a MZ-721
<HazRPG> and then later an atari 2600
<ikonia> ah, happy memories
<HazRPG> I'm sure I'd be a different person today, had I gotten into the c64 scene
<HazRPG> I don't get why the floppy drives are more expensive then the machines themselves, it seems so silly
 * hamitron is guessing they break more
<hamitron> or maybe because of people wanting them to transfer to other machines
<hamitron> then just use with an emulator
<shauno> good chance it's just economy of scale.  most people used tapes, so there's less floppy drives just knocking around people's attics
<HazRPG> shauno: this is true
<HazRPG> I'm guessing people with the floppy drives will have originally been programmers, or at least people trying to learn to programme
<HazRPG> oh, and don't forget those that just copied games and gave them to friends/family etc
<HazRPG> however I wouldn't be surprised if tapes were still more popular for that sort of thing
<HazRPG> shauno: don't know if you read (since it was earlier in the day), but I've scored me 2 c64's from ebay :D
<HazRPG> for Â£40
<HazRPG> along with tape drive
<HazRPG> controller and 6 games
<hamitron> 2?
<HazRPG> yup :)
<HazRPG> apparently they both worked before they got stored in the attic (and moved house with him a few times in 14 years)
<HazRPG> and he said the lights come on, but doesn't have the RF cable anymore to be able to test that it actually works on the TV
<HazRPG> and the tape drive seems to still move - so seems like a pure bargain :)
<HazRPG> two different versions, one seems like the original batch, and the other seems to look like the c64c
<HazRPG> however there was a stage when the c64 and c64c looked similar between transition, so could be luck of the draw which it actually is
<hamitron> gl :)
<HazRPG> hamitron: thanks :)
<HazRPG> I would prefer if they were both the original c64's since the SID in those were far superior to the others
<hamitron> it is kind of weird
<hamitron> I have spent years holding onto old tech
<HazRPG> its the SID 6581
<HazRPG> the c64c and the c128 used the same SID chip of 8580
<hamitron> then as soon as I consider getting rid of it, you guys start talking retro ;/
<hamitron> and now I am getting dragged back into thoughts of using old gear
<HazRPG> the reason the original SID was better, was because they rushed to try and get it out as quick as possible (think they had 5 months for a computer show)... and well it had a few things that were sort of disabled or not wired up that you could essentially harness in code
<HazRPG> well, wasn't really rushed, the basically had a spec. sheet, and just went on developing them one by one, and added new ones if they and when they could
<HazRPG> one such thing that the guy who came up with the SID audio chip, wanted it to have audio input - however it was never finished the the audio in pin is not wired to anything
<HazRPG> hamitron: haha, always happens with me too :P
<hamitron> you guys talking means I will be still using a K6-2 at my main desk :/
<HazRPG> I mean the c64 and the zx were always classics in my mind, but I never owned or experienced them... I'd heard and seen them, but never used one
<hamitron> I have a couple of ZX
<HazRPG> nice
<hamitron> got my ZX128 +2 plugged in
<HazRPG> the ZX was another rushed system :P
<hamitron> well, it is fun
<hamitron> ;)
<hamitron> never done much on it
<hamitron> but is fun
<HazRPG> oh, don't get me wrong - the fact that they were rushed was what made them unique!
<hamitron> but I also enjoy using old pentium pc too
<hamitron> :)
<HazRPG> from nothing to full system in 5 months is pretty ... awesome!
<hamitron> to me, the 586 was the best times
<hamitron> better games arrived
<hamitron> and things today still haven't moved on much
<HazRPG> oh the i586?
<hamitron> yeh
<HazRPG> nice
<HazRPG> shame systems like that seem to lose their ways in most peoples minds :(
<hamitron> I suppose peoples internet connections, ment they never bothered with online play options
<hamitron> so that is different
<HazRPG> true
<HazRPG> wait, you mean games haven't progressed much?
<HazRPG> or just systems in general?
<hamitron> yeh
<hamitron> both tbh
<HazRPG> how so?
<hamitron> just look at the average game or OS
<hamitron> all these processor cycles and mb of memory
<HazRPG> I mean going from blue/black/green displays to full colour with interactive interface etc is just awesome
<hamitron> you had 24 bit colour in windows 95 ;/
<HazRPG> win 95 hates me :/
 * dutchie was too young for win 95
<hamitron> :)
<HazRPG> and the protection of a 3y.o. was just ridiculous ("Enter password:           " *press cancel* SUCCESS!)
<hamitron> in win95?
<HazRPG> yeah
<hamitron> you could block network access though
<HazRPG> pressing cancel on the login screen, just logged you straight in :/
<hamitron> no it didn't
<hamitron> ;)
<hamitron> it did give you some access
<HazRPG> did on every win95 system I came across lol
<hamitron> I remember setting up logins for win95 on my linux server
<HazRPG> I don't think I ever knew the password to our "family" computer... still managed to get IRC and other stuff on it with ease
<HazRPG> dutchie: really?
<HazRPG> dutchie: Hmm, I thought I was the youngest here.
<hamitron> HazRPG: did you only use windows 95 at homes?
<HazRPG> hamitron: I was 8 so yeah :P
<hamitron> the local security was not good, so yeh
<hamitron> :)
<dutchie> HazRPG: not 19 until July
<dutchie> and issyl0 at least is younger than me
<HazRPG> I think we had it at school too, and hitting cancel just bypassed everything :/
<HazRPG> if that didn't work... restart try again
<hamitron> HazRPG: didn't give you access to other peoples files though
<hamitron> or printers
<HazRPG> hamitron: did when you changed a few reg files xD
<hamitron> well it wasn't setup right then :/
<HazRPG> I actually made a floppy with some reg files just for getting rid of the security stuff lol
<HazRPG> dutchie: ah, I'm 24 in june
<HazRPG> dutchie: I never really see issyl0 online
<hamitron> but yeh, local security was not good
<dutchie> she is around occasionally :P
<HazRPG> hamitron: did it actually have local security :P?
<dutchie> but anyway, one counterexample is sufficient
<hamitron> just what you bypassed
<hamitron> :)
<HazRPG> :P
<hamitron> but security is not everything
<hamitron> I'm looking at new ideas and ways end users interact with stuff
<hamitron> we gone from a start menu, to a start menu with a few "sections" and it scrolls
<hamitron> 3d games have gone to 3d games that just have better lighting and texture quality
<hamitron> buttons are now round, rather than square
<hamitron> a backup of accounts software used to be a couple of floppy disks, now the same information takes 200Mb
<hamitron> :s
<hamitron> but I suppose not many care, so things can get as big as they like, with no thought to efficiency
<HazRPG> yeah :/
<hamitron> some things are not even as good
<hamitron> good example is Grand Prix 3 vs F1 2010
<hamitron> there really is nothing better or new, apart from a few fancy scenes
<HazRPG> actually we went from file explorer -> start menu -> start menu with more colours -> start menu with scrolls -> start menu with scrolls and search
<hamitron> but it is still a start menu!
<hamitron> :)
<HazRPG> my point was
<hamitron> and now I need a cpu 10x the power
<HazRPG> the first gui system was just a file explorer
<HazRPG> apps were on the desktop
<HazRPG> and in folders
<HazRPG> but that was all
 * HazRPG growls at stupid win 3.1 and its lack of ability to play any of the games I bought for it
<hamitron> I don't see 10x more functionality
<HazRPG> erm... we have wobble effects on linux \o/
<hamitron> exactly my point ;/
<HazRPG> easier install process
<hamitron> is it?
<HazRPG> well from "LOAD "*",8" to "ooo, its there... *clicks*"
<hamitron> there was clicks more than 10 years ago
<hamitron> :)
<HazRPG> well yeah, that was when XP came out :P
<hamitron> iirc, the first I remember having it was mandrake 6.1
<HazRPG> hamitron: what would you like to see differently?
<hamitron> I personally like how things act
<hamitron> but I don't like how it crunches through memory doing it the same as it once did
<HazRPG> personally going from textual to graphical (which the mind processes in anyway) was a big achievement
<HazRPG> they've just been refining it since
<HazRPG> hamitron: your using the wrong o/s then ;)
<HazRPG> linux kernel is tiny, or can be
<hamitron> I'd replace "refining" with "adding to"
<hamitron> I don't blame the kernel
<HazRPG> also, your using the wrong front-end if you feel that strongly too
<HazRPG> flux, etc come to mind
<hamitron> I am? :|
<hamitron> I am using LXDE
<HazRPG> that was going to be my next suggestion :P
<hamitron> but it isn't what I use
<HazRPG> ...well then what's the issue :P?
<hamitron> it is how the direction of computing is going
<HazRPG> ah, yeah I know
<hamitron> I couldn't run this on a system with 32mb ram ...
<HazRPG> blame the physicist that that computers would double every two years - mr moore himself
<HazRPG> that said*
<hamitron> him and everyone who drives it that way :)
<hamitron> I mean, I don't mind systems having more resources...
<hamitron> but it would be nice to see them resources put to some good use
<HazRPG> its science, if there's a law - you must abide by it unless you can prove wrongly - general consensus
<HazRPG> hamitron: think of it this way
<HazRPG> |000000011|
<HazRPG> that represents a system along with its memory
<HazRPG> the 11 is basically how much of it is used for the operation of the rest of the sytem
<HazRPG> now if you double the other figures (hardware), you must double the operating system too
<hamitron> you don't have to ;)
<shauno> you don't have to.  but generally the whole point of having more resources is to be able to do more with them
<HazRPG> someone was at the door sorry
<HazRPG> hmm, I have to disagree
<dutchie> at 2:30 am?
<hamitron> if I double my memory, I expect to run nearly twice as many firefox tabs... not for each tab to use more memory each
<HazRPG> memory was probably a bad example
<HazRPG> take storage for example
<hamitron> same with cpu cycles
<hamitron> storage even more so :) a 32 bit float needs to only take 32 bits
<hamitron> I dunno how new accounts software converts say 2mb to 200mb
<HazRPG> the way it stores it data onto a given medium, you need to define how to access the whole device (all the write sectors in the case of a HDD), you then also need a way of being able to scan through that medium, so some form of indexing is needed
<hamitron> that does not double the use of that
<hamitron> what is happening, the average system doubles in power, so the software coders don't worry if the end product uses double
<HazRPG> shauno: yeah I understand that, but when you have more resources - you also need to waste/use more to be able to address them
<hamitron> so you end up with no extra resources to run more
<HazRPG> which ali1234 was about, I always like his input
<HazRPG> altho its I do really like shauno and hamitron's too though :)
<hamitron> IPv6 is a good example
<hamitron> yes it uses more space, but it increases the number of IP by many more times
<HazRPG> hamitron: incorrect, you still have more to work with for your actual software, however you've got to remember that the software will still get bigger because it has more address it needs to be able to manage
<hamitron> it isn't incorrect :|
<hamitron> you are exagerating the overhead of addressing
<HazRPG> oh no, I wasn't saying incorrect to IP's
<HazRPG> IPv6*
<hamitron> it is the same for hardware addressing...
<hamitron> for every extra bit assigned to addressing, you can double the number of addressed locations
<HazRPG> wait, wasn't that what I tried to say with my diagram?
<hamitron> you were saying there is nothing gained from more memory or storage
<HazRPG> I was trying to say, if a system requires 1/3 of it (hypothetically) for addressing, if you double the number you have available, you still need to use 1/3 of it for addressing them
<hamitron> but the extra gained is in fact used by bloated applications imo
<hamitron> that is wrong
<hamitron> but even if it is right
<hamitron> no need for firefox to grow and use more of 2/3 left
<HazRPG> the issues with software, is usually the try to add more features - thinking ah we've got plenty of rooom - that no one cares to optimize their code any more
<hamitron> yeh
<hamitron> and the OS comes under that too
<HazRPG> of course, however the O/S is slightly different if you think of it as a whole
<HazRPG> parts of it is basically for WYSIWYG
<HazRPG> the other parts are for communications
<shauno> see, I don't agree at all
<HazRPG> its usually the gui stuff that tends to get bloated out
<HazRPG> shauno: do shame :)
<shauno> 10 years ago I had a really awful computer.  well behind the times.  an amd 486dx4+B, at a stonking 120MHz
<shauno> now, when itunes uses 5% of the cpu, people can't figure out why it's "so bloated"
<shauno> that 486 couldn't play an mp3.  and 120MHz is *more* than 5% of 2.2GHz
<shauno> it's all very well saying "I did the same thing 10 years ago in a fraction of the hardware"
<shauno> we didn't do the same things 10 years ago.  at all.
<hamitron> I agree new functions need more resources
<hamitron> and that is why new games use more, to do more
<hamitron> but I could view webpages with a comp with only 16mb ram
<hamitron> I could word process
<shauno> I actually had IE4 on windows 3.1 fairly recently for something.  yes it existed.  no it wasn't the same at all :)
<hamitron> it displayed a webpage with information on
<hamitron> ;/
<HazRPG> web page != web document
<hamitron> I do blame the content providers parts
<hamitron> partly*
 * hamitron starts clean firefox up
<hamitron> 46mb ram :/
<HazRPG> hamitron: back when you were viewing a web document, it only had text and needed to parse that on-screen
<HazRPG> or possibly images
<HazRPG> etc
<HazRPG> however now
<hamitron> it did images ;/
<hamitron> now you have javascript, flash and loads of crap
<hamitron> that really doesn't add to the quality of information available
<HazRPG> we have flash, javascript, audio, video, ... and many other plugins left right and centre
<hamitron> I had audio and video on my p120 :/
<hamitron> not everything was integrated though as plugins
<HazRPG> ah see exactly, your browser now does more than your browser did back then
<hamitron> a web browser was a web browser, a media player was for playing media
<hamitron> that is my point too, pointless :D
<HazRPG> bring back these days: http://media.rhizome.org/blog/3669/browser-editor.png ?
<HazRPG> I have a feeling that's at native resolution too
<hamitron> that is in 16 colours ;/
<hamitron> or maybe 256
<shauno> and 3/4 of them are being used for icons
<hamitron> I'm not saying we have to give up all new features
<hamitron> just cut back on some of the bloat and requirements
<hamitron> things like buttons lighting up when the cursor goes over them
<hamitron> ;)
<hamitron> round memory hogging graphics for the buttons
<hamitron> it would free memory up, to be used for things like better quality pics and stuff
<HazRPG> hamitron: round buttons don't take any more memory than square
<HazRPG> well not much anyways
<HazRPG> also, use chrome/chromium ;)
<HazRPG> or disable plugins :o!
<HazRPG> well at least the ones you don't use
<hamitron> chrome uses too much memory
<hamitron> each tab uses 40mb?
<HazRPG> hamitron: ever sat and counted what it needs to store in memory?
<HazRPG> each picture and text block
<HazRPG> in rendered form
<shauno> eh, chrome does process separation; so each tab contains not just the content, but the footprint of the renderer itself, the javascript engine, plugin containers, etc
<hamitron> good for security
<hamitron> so i do not mind it doing so
<hamitron> that is part of the design
<HazRPG> shauno: plugins are self contained in their own process, however the footprint of its usage I understand
<hamitron> but I bet firefox 1.0 runs faster than 3.6
<hamitron> and both display text and pictures fine
<HazRPG> hamitron: you'd be surprised
<shauno> it'll vary by content.  I'd expect 1.0 to be faster on straight pages, but slower on stuff that uses js to any real degree
<hamitron> js is the devil of modern webpages
<hamitron> as is all scripting and flashy stuff
<hamitron> ;)
<HazRPG> anything with the word java is
<shauno> so you'd give up gmail to go back to 90's-style yahoo?
<hamitron> yes
<hamitron> haha
<shauno> nutter
<HazRPG> nope
<hamitron> gmail does actually have a basic option...
<HazRPG> hamitron: not as basic as you'd think though
<shauno> yeah.  stops j/k keys from working tho, so it's not worth it :)
<hamitron> shauno: freedom of choice!
<hamitron> ;)
<HazRPG> hamitron: well you know the linux moto ;)
<HazRPG> "don't like it, write your own"
<HazRPG> or rather foss I should say
<shauno> "if you don't like it, tough **** because canonical don't want to hear it"
<shauno> :p
<hamitron> haha shauno
<HazRPG> shauno: haha ;p
<hamitron> I will be giving ubuntu one last try, cut down
<hamitron> see where that takes me
<shauno> you're going to find the same issues pretty much everywhere
<shauno> I mean, the difference between win95 and winxp wasn't just programmers getting lazy
<HazRPG> ... hmm, DSL?
<hamitron> there is a lts release of puppy, but that has loads installed and looks like a kids machine
<hamitron> personally I prefer ubuntu 8.04
<shauno> I think you'd do well to try linuxfromscratch some time
<hamitron> I have
<hamitron> took me ages damn it
<hamitron> haha
<shauno> have fun trying to juggle bloat vs features yourself
<HazRPG> or at least oemtools
<Azelphur> been testing things, it looks like my freezes are indeed multi X screen related. I don't get freezes if I use either card on it's own
<Azelphur> so as I said about 3 years ago, it's official, it looks like Linux has gone into the realms where more than 2 displays is just completely unusable :(
<hamitron> I would run my own compiled system, but that is hard work to maintain
<HazRPG> Azelphur: have you tried multiple X using the same card for output?
<Azelphur> HazRPG, nope
<Azelphur> but that'd be kinda pointless :P
<shauno> I used to do that :)
<hamitron> can you not get it working with a custom xorg.conf?
<Azelphur> it does "work"
<hamitron> that bugs me too, no xorg.conf by default
<Azelphur> it just freezes within a matter of minutes now
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> does it work in windows?
<Azelphur> and I get artifacts and stuff
<shauno> no xorg.conf makes perfect sense to me
<Azelphur> does multi X work in windows? probably not :P
<hamitron> no xorg.conf makes sense shauno :) but the old fashioned ways of creating the config should still be included
<shauno> last I looked they were
<HazRPG> man, I should learn to stop running myself down like this
 * HazRPG 's uptime: 1d:3hrs
<hamitron> I gotta get up in 4 hours :/
<shauno> I gotta get up in 90 minutes   lol
<hamitron> hehe
<shauno> ah, looks like xorg took XF86Config out back and shot it.  'bout time.
<hamitron> shauno: I thought the X config stuff wasn't maintained now
<Azelphur> might try xinerama for a bit see how I get on with that
<Azelphur> no compiz though :(
<HazRPG> Azelphur: hmm, not a big fan of xinerama at all
<HazRPG> not cos of the lack of compiz... just what it does to applications in "fullscreen"
<Azelphur> yea
<Azelphur> I get that anyway without xinerama :D
<hamitron> I liked X.org 6.x best
<hamitron> :)
<shauno> xinerama's the way to stay sane.  TwinView is broken :)
<HazRPG> Azelphur: same
<Azelphur> quad screen is epic bugged but nobody will fix things :(
<Azelphur> well, most won't rather
<Azelphur> most developers just say yea nobody has more than 2 displays I'm not fixing that goodbye :P
<HazRPG> ali1234 made a hack for firefox/chrome to get flash to stop being stupid and use proper linux calls for fullscreen
<hamitron> hehe
<Azelphur> (gnome-do and gnome-panel devs are really bad for this)
<hamitron> it is because they are all communist, and hate people with too much money ;)
<HazRPG> shauno: I use twinview without problems
<shauno> I could never run a separate X instance on tv-out with twinview
<shauno> drove me nuts
<hamitron> nvidia need to get their ass into gear
<Azelphur> I think it's more of an X limitation too
<shauno> I dont' blame nv so much
<hamitron> and X.org need to stop moving the target so fast :/
<Azelphur> I don't know any cards that can do quad
<shauno> frankly, X needs to die
<hamitron> so many revisions and broken-ness
<hamitron> so yeh
<hamitron> :)
<HazRPG> personally I think the linux kernel needs to be recoded - but that's just me
<hamitron> !!!!!!!
<HazRPG> not that I hate how its done now
 * hamitron points HazRPG to BSD
<hamitron> see how much "better" it is ;)
<hamitron> it does have its place I suppose
<HazRPG> BSD is still monolithic though
<HazRPG> microkernel is where it should be at
<shauno> pft.  that ship's sailed.
<HazRPG> shauno: ?
<shauno> even osx just puts everything in one mach server.
<shauno> the only people who still think microkernel's a good idea, are hurd.  and look where that's got them.
<hamitron> minix is getting worse too
<hamitron> dev is moving fast I suppose
<hamitron> guess that is why I don't like it
<hamitron> ;)
 * hamitron grunts
<shauno> seriously, that's fun for academics to play with / argue over.  I can't think of anyone that's actually ship it outside of a lab tho.
<hamitron> I personally find nothing wrong with the linux kernel, so never moved
<hamitron> it was only this last year I accepted the 2.6 kernel though :)
<hamitron> anyways
<hamitron> nn you lot o/
<hamitron> post midnight moan starts again in just over 20 hours
<shauno> heh, night
<shauno> not sure how I ended up with my head stuck in TeX again.  this just isn't kosher.
<shauno> not entirely sure what this means either
<shauno> ! TeX capacity exceeded, sorry [input stack size=5000].
<lubotu3`> Error: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<shauno> If you really absolutely need more capacity, you can ask a wizard to enlarge me.
 * shauno scratches head
<MartijnVdS> http://d3uwin5q170wpc.cloudfront.net/photo/86969_460s_v1.jpg
<shauno> morning MartijnVdS :)
<shauno> discovered fairly recently that james earl jones was mufasa in The Lion King.  Making Luke, Simba's step-brother.
<shauno> that's one messed up family tree.
<MartijnVdS> 8-)
<MartijnVdS> I was watching Men in Black II a few weeks ago, and I recognised someone.. he was the landlord in The Big Lebowski
<MartijnVdS> then I was watching a DS9 episode yesterday... and he was an alien
<MartijnVdS> It's weird, not knowing an actor and then seeing him three times in a row
<shauno> reminds me of when I figured out that Agent Smith was the lead dragqueen in Priscilla, Queen of the Desert
<shauno> http://images.smh.com.au/ftsmh/ffximage/2009/05/01/priscilla_wideweb__470x299,0.jpg
<shauno> The Matrix will never be the same again :p
<MartijnVdS> hahaha
<MartijnVdS> also, Elrond
<shauno> yeah
<shauno> elf isn't quite so far a leap tho
<MartijnVdS> http://i.imgur.com/ScWDB.jpg
<Myrtti> priscilla ruined la confidential, memento, star wars for me in addition to matrix and lotr
<AlanBell> morning all
<danfish> good morning, and what a bright sunny day in the SE for a change :)
<knightdroid> ls
<knightdroid> morning
<shauno> howdy
<nigelb> good morning UK
<TheOpenSourcerer> Morning earthlings :-)
<HazRPG> wow, waking up in front of the computer isn't my idea of cool
<HazRPG> especially to voices on mumble lol
<HazRPG> ...hi :)
<diplo> morning
<Myrtti> booyah
<knightdroid> morning
<MooDoo> hello all
<BigRedS> Goooood morning!
<Synth_sam> morning
<DJones> Morning all
<czajkowski> Aloha
<scoundrel50> hi, I installed pastebinit lsat night, amazing little tool from what I would see, but I have been trying to find out if there were any directions on how to use it. i tried man pastebinit, but I couldnt see much on there. I went to the owners website, but could only swee updates and things on that. Thanks.
<MartijnVdS> omg @ new Ubuntu name
<MartijnVdS> "Oneiric Ocelot"
<DJones> scoundrel50: Have you looked at this page https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Pastebinit That might be what you're looking for
<Baikonur> they've let someone loose with dictionary and some mind-altering substances again
<MooDoo> morning czajkowski
<MartijnVdS> Baikonur: Mark is just trying to out-smart the prediction sites
<Baikonur> oh
<Baikonur> that's probably it
<MartijnVdS> Baikonur: (I guess)
<Baikonur> i said oh, and then actually read what you said :)
<cbx33> mornin all
<Myrtti> anyone in the IT news business? http://www.digia.com/C2256FEF0043E9C1/0/405002251
<Baikonur> i'm in a business of reading IT news
<lostscot> join #ubuntu-bugs
<DJones> scoundrel50: I've just found the online manpage for pastebinit, but doesn't seem to add anything to the original link I posted http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/maverick/en/man1/pastebinit.1.html
<soneill> I misread that as /join #ubuntu-hugs
<mungojerry> Myrtti: so digia will handle promotion and commercial licensing of qt, but nokia retains the devs?
<Myrtti> mungojerry: apparently yes, that's how it's been interpreted by the Finnish news
<mungojerry> until somebody buys the devs..i wonder who will do that
<scoundrel50> DJones: that was what I saw on man, but I dont understand it. How do I get from that, to this command I was given last night.........sed -n '43200,43400p' /var/lib/dpkg/status|pastebinit this command doesnt even seem to be on the man page........
<scoundrel50> I understand that command I just posted, its the line numbers, and where is it, but what is sed -n
<scoundrel50> and how would you go about adding a paragraph from a page you were looking at on a website
<cbx33> Myrtti: could do with some latex love if you have a second
<cbx33> oh man
<cbx33> that sounds wrong
<Myrtti> cbx33: sure, I'm high on sugar anyway
<Myrtti> that sounds equally wrong
<cbx33> gimme a sec
<Myrtti> oh geez, I need a full nights sleep...
<AlanBell> Oneiric Ocelot!
<DJones> scoundrel50: I've never used sed myself, but as I understand it, it effectivly searches a file for specific text and gives you various options to replace/report on it, so that line searches ofr the lines between 4320 to 43400 in the status file & than pipes the output into pastebinit. Not knowing the usage of sed, I wouldn't like to say much more, but I'm sure somebody else will be able to help in time
<czajkowski> indeeed
<czajkowski> Myrtti: TEA!!
<Myrtti> czajkowski: I'm beyond the point where the situation can be fixed with tea
<TheOpenSourcerer> Cabinet Office Survey on Open Standards: http://www.cabinetoffice.gov.uk/content/uk-government-open-standards-survey
<DJones> AlanBell: Can you answer scoundrel50's query about the sed | pastebinit question he had a few minutes ago, just explaining a bit more on what you went through yesterday
<scoundrel50> Thank you. I'll keep my eyes open. :)
<AlanBell> scoundrel50: ok, so I googled for "display a portion of a file linux"
<screen-x> DJones: you are right, -n means don't print by default. x,y is range of line numbers and p is print.
<AlanBell> which took me here http://www.unix.com/unix-dummies-questions-answers/21631-display-portion-lines-file.html
<AlanBell> where I learned that sed -n '20,40p' would display lines 20 to 40
<DJones> screen-x: Thats good, a logical (debatable from my point of view) process worked out then
<AlanBell> I wanted to display lines 43200 to 43400 which is 200 lines of the file, with the bit referenced in your warning message in the middle of it
<AlanBell> | is a pipe, it sends the output of one command into the input of the next
<hoover> mornin all
<screen-x> morning hoover :)
<scoundrel50> AlanBell: ah, I see, I will have a look at the url myself now. That makes more sense. Thank you.
<AlanBell> so you can do echo "hi this is my text"|pastebinit for example, the output of echo "hi this is my text" is 'hi this is my text' which will be passed into pastebinit, which puts it on a pastebin and returns the URL
<gord> does anyone know a gtk app that has an expander in it? one of those little arrows that you click and get a bunch more content unveiled
<AlanBell> gord: openERP client
<mungojerry> gord: gconf-editor has expanders, with + signs though
<czajkowski> how are we all doing this morning
<screen-x> fine thanks czajkowski, how are you?
<czajkowski> fantastic :)
<gord> AlanBell, something i might have installed is preferable ;)
<screen-x> :D
<mungojerry> sun is shining in the UK for the first time in 6 months i think
<DJones> Morning czajkowski Welcome back to the UK, did you have a good holiday
<screen-x> thats a good state for a monday morning :)
<gord> mungojerry, hrm not ones in a treeview like that, in regular content
<screen-x> mungojerry: yay! (puts SAD lamp away)
<czajkowski> DJones: I did indeed
<scoundrel50> AlanBell: you entered that command from the terminal to find something in a folder, but what if you were looking for something on the internet, can it be used for doing that?
<AlanBell> scoundrel50: not sure what you mean
<AlanBell> gord: do you want a screenshot or something?
<gord> AlanBell, found some in ccsm :) needed to check the behaviour in gtk for keynav
<AlanBell> yay
<screen-x> scoundrel50: sed can only files through a file system. But you browse the web in a terminal with links or lynx.
<cbx33> Myrtti: pinged you
<cbx33> :)
<czajkowski> DISLIKE KDE!
<scoundrel50> screen-x: ah, what is that, have never done that before....
<scoundrel50> AlanBell: I wondered about trying to add something from a web page, to pastebinit, without having to copy and paste
 * AlanBell struggles to see the point of that!
<kazade> so, Oneiric Ocelot ...
<AlanBell> yo dawg, I heard you liked web pages so I put a web page on your web page so you can browse while you browse
<mungojerry> kazade: i was half right :P
<kazade> Mark's getting more and more obscure with each release!
<mungojerry> couldn't get ovulating ocelot out of my mind
<DJones> mungojerry: Too much information
<screen-x> scoundrel50: theres no advantage to browsing in terminal, except if you find yourself without X for some reason.
<JamesTait> Good morning, all!
<screen-x> morning JT :)
<mungojerry> it's gonna be hard for poor spellers ..reminds me of this old joke:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4g8KfQ6uTP0
<scoundrel50> Sorry not very good at explaining.....was trying to find out, how I would go about using pastebinit for something I had seen on the internet, instead of having to copy and paste into something like pastebin.ubuntu
<AlanBell> scoundrel50: my point is that if it is on a web page you don't have to put it on a pastebin, just share the URL of the page
<scoundrel50> oh right, I see what you mean,......duh......
<scoundrel50> sorry about that
<AlanBell> ocelot -> http://images.sciencedaily.com/2007/11/071129094756-large.jpg
<MartijnVdS> South American cat
<kazade> so, what do you guys think is the best release name so far?
<MartijnVdS> Lucid
<DJones> AlanBell: That looks nice and cute
<mungojerry> i think the best creature is the narwhal
<knightdroid> naughty night
<MartijnVdS> mungojerry: Redditor? :)
<kazade> I think Feisty Fawn or Hardy Heron - I quite liked "Hardy" because I thought it was a good name for a LTS
<MartijnVdS> Dapper Drake was nice as well
<AlanBell> the desktop wallpaper on Hardy was great
<kazade> indeed
<mungojerry> some narwhal fans got carried away: http://www.flickr.com/photos/mroth/galleries/72157623599870267/
<kazade> not a huge fan of "Oneiric"
 * DJones waits for the 12:04 name now, "Perfect Penguin" although other distro's would dispute that
<screen-x> or Petulent Panda
<Baikonur> don't care for intrepid, jaunty, maveric, natty
<screen-x> The scroll wheel on my mouse at work, can be pushed sideways for horizontal scrolling, this is reasonably useful until I use a mouse with a normal scroll wheel and almost break it off when trying to sroll horizontally.
<gord> http://www.digia.com/C2256FEF0043E9C1/0/405002251 huh, digia buying Qt
<Baikonur> i really like the wallpaper on intrepid, though
<Baikonur> funnily enough, that link has been here already, but i haven't seen it in any other channels
<Myrtti> http://blog.qt.nokia.com/2011/03/07/nokia-and-digia-working-together/
<mungojerry> for anyone following the google malware story, does anyone know if the malicious apps presented a list of privileges via the permissions page?
<ali1234> dunno but i could probably find out
<mungojerry> if not , then checking the permissions list is pointless if it's a dodgy app
<mungojerry> rather peeved that google have only decided to act after there's been an issue, despite what users have been concerned about since day 1
<ali1234> not many users
<ali1234> at least not in this country
<mungojerry> hey ali1234 did i see you mention the other day that you studeied at manchester uni
<ali1234> yeah
<mungojerry> me too :P
<mungojerry> 93-96
<ali1234> 98-01
<mungojerry> maths & comp sci
<mungojerry> CS?
<ali1234> yeah
<mungojerry> did they have solaris workstations, or linux by then?
<ali1234> they had both an NT too
<mungojerry> ugh, i never touched a windows box until i was 21
<ali1234> the B&W sun terminals were hardly used by anyone though
<mungojerry> yeah, they had rooms full at the time. the interenet had only just started too
<mungojerry> cool days
<mungojerry> although i managed to get a 1st class degree without knowing much about solaris or IP addresses at the time
<mungojerry> most of my course buddies got lower class degrees but knew how to program well and a whole lot more...guess i concentrated on exams and social instead :P
<mungojerry> good old days :)
<mungojerry> ali1234: did you end up with an IT job?
<ali1234> no
<ali1234> i ended up unemployed for 2 years, *then* i got an IT job
<ali1234> that was so bad I quit and became self-employed
<mungojerry> there was a post y2k glut of so-called IT staff that muddied the waters at around that time. i don't know of a time when it's ever been good to get work
<diplo> Anyone recommend any good Python tutorials, started writing a backup script to use ssh/rsync and mysql dump to back up our web hosts but was using bash and I thought why not use this as a time to start teaching myself python
<MooDoo> diplo: http://wiki.python.org/moin/BeginnersGuide ??
<TheOpenSourcerer> diplo: Snake Wrangling for kids
<czajkowski> TheOpenSourcerer: ALOHA!!
<diplo> Ta fanx, will go looksy now
<loftus> diplo, http://duplicity.nongnu.org/
<TheOpenSourcerer> Yo czajkowski
<czajkowski> TheOpenSourcerer: hows you :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Great thanks. A year older but still the same big kid inside :-D
<DJones> TheOpenSourcerer: Happy candle day today then?
<MooDoo> TheOpenSourcerer: Happy Birthday?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Nah - Saturday.
<diplo> yeah seen that before loftus, keep meaning to tinker but not going to help my pthon skills i suppose, might take anothe rlook anyhoo
<diplo> thanks
<MooDoo> TheOpenSourcerer: well happy birthday for saturday....21 again?
<MooDoo> ;)
<screen-x> diplo: also rsnapshot is worth considering..
<TheOpenSourcerer> Anyone fancy a small HP Microserver - Hp doing Â£100 cashback so it will cost Â£121 inc. VAT
<TheOpenSourcerer> http://www.crescentelectronics.co.uk/hp-proliant-n36l-1p-1gbu-int-sata-cold-plug-sata-2-xnto63372442170bd.html
<loftus> diplo, Written in python!
<TheOpenSourcerer> http://h41112.www4.hp.com/promo/proliantmicroserver/index.html?jumpid=ex_r135_uk/en/smb/tsg/go_proliantmicroserver
<AlanBell> popey: did you get one of those HP boxes?
<popey> morning
<popey> no, i got 4
<TheOpenSourcerer> lol
<MooDoo> morning popey
<AlanBell> how many drive bays do they have?
<Guest64262> Anyone know where to find ufw firewall on Natty / Unity ?
<popey> four connected to a back plane, and one optical bay
 * mungojerry wishes he had spare funds in his fun budget
<MooDoo> mungojerry: me too, i want a new camera
 * mungojerry wants a touch screen on his eee, and one of those cheap HP servers ^^^
<czajkowski> Tomorrow is pancake tuesday!!!!
<mungojerry> oooh
<ali1234> Â£120 for a 1.3Ghz athlon II and 250GB HD is not exactly cheap
<czajkowski> don't forget the lemon!!
<MooDoo> czajkowski: woohoo maple syrup
<ali1234> it's about what it is actually worth
<MooDoo> ali1234: better than a smack in the mush :)
<mungojerry> currently i have a linksys nslu2 doing my backups
<AlanBell> I see it as a rather flexible NAS box
<MooDoo> mungojerry: i'm backing up to a windows server, then a netgear nas duo
<mungojerry> i had to crush a resistor with a pair of tweezers on my nslu2 to get the true cpu performance :P
<popey> AlanBell: i have moved the 160GB disk that came with mine to the cdrom bay, and added two 2TB disks
<popey> if I need more space I will add two more
<popey> it also has an internal USB port so you could put the OS on that, and add another 2TB in the optical bay
<popey> so you could end up with 5x2TB in it
<mungojerry> popey:  would the PSU handle that?
<mungojerry> look slike it's only 200W
<AlanBell> I want to introduce a customer to the joys of an on-site rdiff-backup of everything
<ali1234> is it quiet?
<Daviey> AlanBell, What benefits do you see of rdiff-backup over rsnapshot?  Or is it just familiarity?
<mungojerry> ..or rsync with hard links
<Daviey> well that sounds like reinventing rsnapshot if you want to keep historic backups.
<mungojerry> Daviey: yeah, thats what we did :P
<Daviey> mungojerry, why?!
<mungojerry> Daviey: it was pre-existing backup solution already in place that worked
<Daviey> mungojerry, ah
<mungojerry> although i needed to upgrade rsync to a newer version
<mungojerry> because traversing enormous directories was RAM intensive ( over 2gb) and killed the machine. most recent rsync version fixes this
<ali1234> how recent is most recent?
<mungojerry> when you know things like that you decide not to change your online backups cos your ones already work
<ali1234> because i need to rsync some enormous directories...
 * mungojerry checks...
<ali1234> i have rsync  version 2.6.9  protocol version 29
<mungojerry> 3.0.7 i think...just checking
<popey> ali1234: i dont know, its in a cupboard
<ali1234> popey: you turned it on with a really long stick too?
<popey> que?
<ali1234> popey ------------------------------------------------------------> power button
<popey> ahhh
<popey> no, it's reachable :)
<popey> i use rsnapshot on it to backup lots of remote boxen
<popey> works really nicely
<ali1234> you must have some idea how noisy it is
<popey> no, no clue
<popey> honestly
<mungojerry> ali1234:
<mungojerry> Rsync versions before 3.0.0 always build the entire list of files to be transferred at the beginning and hold it in memory for the entire run.
<popey> well, relatively speaking, not as noisy as a drobo
<mungojerry> ali1234: http://samba.anu.edu.au/rsync/FAQ.html#4
<popey> which used to be where it's sat now
<ali1234> yeah, i have noticed rsync doing this, it takes almost as long to build the file list as to transfer the files
<Daviey> rsync has always been abusive to the server, and i understood this was still the case.
<mungojerry> ours was killing the server, but now is fixed
<mungojerry> after upgrade on both sides
 * BigRedS pats ionice
<mungojerry> it was the RAM bug ^^
<mungojerry> our zimbra server has millions of files
<ali1234> for some reason ionice has no effect on my machine
 * mungojerry wonders about the best filesystem for millions of small files
<BigRedS> Ah, oh. I didn't see what was being discussed, but ionice does wonders for rsyncy things generally
<BigRedS> mungojerry: zfs or xfs IIRC
<ali1234> i think there's something wrong with my IDE drivers perhaps. is 1.3 seconds latency on page fault reasonable?
<BigRedS> in that one of those is particularly good for them, but I can't remember which
<mungojerry> BigRedS: i was thinking xfs too, i need to check it out
<BigRedS> xfs is a big bag of awesome generally
<TheOpenSourcerer> xfs is good for very large files.
<mungojerry> ext is taking days to delete files
<TheOpenSourcerer> I use it on our home server.
<Daviey> TheOpenSourcerer, When xfs corrupts, it's a world of pain.
<TheOpenSourcerer> It's been good so far.
<BigRedS> But it *is* very easy to back up..
<BigRedS> :)
<jpds> photorec time.
<ali1234> corrupted btrfs is worse
<Daviey> TheOpenSourcerer, have you tried shrinking an xfs partition :)
<Baikonur> barfs
<popey> AlanBell: YHM re: Release Party
<Daviey> jpds, Yes... i have a 1TB harddrive on the shelf that is par tof a RAID1 corrupted xfs array, and another drive which is halfway through photorec'ing :)
<Daviey> jpds, not touched it in a few months tho... :/
<ali1234> someone at meego decided btrfs would be a good idea for mobile battery powered devices
<ali1234> unfortunately it tends to corrupt if the battery runs out, and there's no fsck that can fix errors
<popey> hahah
<Myrtti> dear universe, please stop kicking me in the head, plzkthxbai br Miia
<mungojerry> engadget picked up the qt story http://www.engadget.com/2011/03/07/nokia-sells-qt-licensing-and-services-business-to-digia/
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Dave Morris] CLI onliners: Changing my email address in multiple files - http://davemorris.wordpress.com/2011/03/07/cli-onliners-changing-my-email-address-in-multiple-files/
<X3N> Anyone know how to change the default web browser of thunderbird?
<X3N> I've tried prefered applications and setting x-www-browser
<BigRedS> I know there's three places, but I can't remember the third#
<BigRedS> ah, is it sensible-browser ?
<BigRedS> do    file `which sensible-browser`    and see where that points
<X3N> ah that looks like, thanks
<BigRedS> hm, mine's a shell script. But, still, poke around that and it might be why it's picking whatever it is
<X3N> look like it's picking gnome-www-browser, even though my "prefered application" for browser is set to firefox
 * X3N fixes 
<BigRedS> yeah, I hate changing default apps now, there's so many places and ways you need to do it...
<davmor2> morning all
 * davmor2 fires bits of paper from his elastic band catapult in czajkowski general direction
 * czajkowski kicks davmor2 
 * davmor2 hugs czajkowski welcome back
<czajkowski> davmor2: did you miss me
<davmor2> czajkowski: You know the technical level of this channel rises when you not here :P
<czajkowski> davmor2: oh bite me!
<popey> \o/ the czajkowski and davmor2 show
<czajkowski> davmor2: you know you missed me, you have nobody else that rants back at you
 * gord gets popcorn
 * mungojerry has written a strong email to the big bosses of his company :S
 * popey puts toffee on gords popcorn
 * screen-x observes that when thirsty, drinking is more effective than eating.
 * czajkowski steals the popcorn and throws it over davmor2 
<mungojerry> wonder whether it's good to stick your head above the parapet :S
<popey> I had black pudding sandwich for brekkie this morning :D
<popey> and it's pie week, so I want PIE!
<screen-x> pie week?
<gord> its pie week?
<popey> it is
<davmor2> czajkowski: Hey no wasting food even if it does get a Laugh
<soneill> I thought pie was an all year round thing
<popey> http://www.britishpieweek.co.uk/
<davmor2> popey: don't tell the yanks they'll go potty
<czajkowski> :o
<mungojerry> does that also mean more rumpie pumpie...?
<screen-x> haha PoTD is funny
<shauno> ironically, 3/14 is /next/ week
<popey> It means 3.14 more rumpie pumpie!
<Pendulum> shauno: I was just thinking that
<davmor2> czajkowski: How was your holiday?
<czajkowski> fantastic
 * popey has some http://www.amazon.co.uk/Make-Us-Brew-Organic-Chilli/dp/B003VJTL0W
 * popey will be making czajkowski drink some next week
<mungojerry> no pie week celbration at the work canteen :(
<davmor2> czajkowski: you see we'd of been all nice to you if you'd of said awful now you deserve everything you get for having such a nice time :P
<screen-x> mungojerry: ask them nicely, but if they don't respond positively, use sudo
<screen-x> I thought ntpd was supposed to bring clocks into sync gently.. http://i.imgur.com/i17fN.png
<mungojerry> weird, are u sure it wasn't an ntpdate command instead?
<screen-x> mungojerry: I did restart ntpd, but didnt ntpdate
<mungojerry> thinking of going to this conference in april, maybe others might be interested  http://www.infosec.co.uk/
<czajkowski> popey: eh no drink till after, otherwise I'll speak even faster!
<popey> hehe
<davmor2> czajkowski: you're kidding right,  I have to record what you say now and play it back at half speed to know what you said
<czajkowski> I cant even argue with you
<gord> sigh, the problem with triaging unity bugs is that often its just compiz bugs, but people file them against unity :(
<gord> #waytoaddanextrahourtomyday
<davmor2> czajkowski: that must gut you then ;)
<davmor2> gord: but you love it you know you do ;)
<gord> really... really don't
<davmor2> gord: can't you write a script that transfers them all over to compiz and have the compiz team forward the ones that actually effect unity :D
<gord> if compiz used launchpad i wouldn't care, they use a bugzilla
<mungojerry> gord: there is also a common conception that nobody/very few people are working on compiz
<mungojerry> lots of old compiz bugs went unfixed for a long time
<davmor2> gord: Meh
<X3N> that and the compiz code base was never that good in the first place
<gord> its been re-written
<gord> natty compiz is basically entirely new, which means it has a crap load of new bugs
<gord> please file/fix :(
<mungojerry> there is a compiz bug that bites me almost every other day and crashes compiz, which sucks badly when u have > 50 windows open over virtual desktops...restarting compiz brings them onto 1 desktop again
<AlanBell> gord: so how does one tell if a bug is compiz, or unity?
<gord> AlanBell, test in classic desktop
<AlanBell> good answer
<shauno> today's so slow I'm trawling SE/askubuntu  :/
<screen-x> < shauno> today's so slow I'm trolling SE/askubuntu  :/
<screen-x> fixed that for you ;-)
<shauno> heh
<mungojerry> askbuuntu can be quite addictive
<czajkowski> Anyone heading to the RMS talk this evening in London http://j.mp/dYlNNl
<AlanBell> czajkowski: me
<czajkowski> me too!
<AlanBell> excellent
 * AlanBell wonders if there will be food
<Synth_sam> They're trying to organise for him to speak in Sheffield, I might go then, it's closer
<czajkowski> 20:00 - 21:30 Networking   perhaps then
<AlanBell> yup, hour and a half of networking does deserve food I think
<AlanBell> if not then I am going for a curry :)
<DJones> AlanBell: Will there be dancing?
<mungojerry> AlanBell: toenail sandwiches
<AlanBell> I am not sure whether I dislike mungojerry's or DJones's suggestion the most
<Myrtti> puff pastries and deepfried shrimps
<mungojerry> AlanBell: depends if you have seen the RMS toe jam video
 * MooDoo isn't going, he's working on getting a linux event to dublin :)
<ndf> i keep deleting items from the places sidebar in nautilus accidentally by pressing backspace to navigate 'up', if the sidebar is in focus backspace acts as delete, but if the folder contents have focus then it navigates up. is there a way to stop the delete function? surely it should only be mapped to delete as opposed to backspace anyway?
<AlanBell> mungojerry: yes, I have. Eye bleach does not take it away.
<gord> AlanBell, i hope you have designed RMS bingo ;)
<AlanBell> gord: oooh, I could do that
<AlanBell> http://ubingo.libertus.co.uk/ still works
<mungojerry> you might also want to take a posy of flowers to ward off B.O. from the multitude of unwashed geeks
<AlanBell> mungojerry: how dare you say that about czajkowski
<czajkowski> MooDoo: Dublin..
<czajkowski> nooooo
<czajkowski> much nicer places to go to than Dublin
<MooDoo> czajkowski: it's a FUDCon bid
<czajkowski> FUDCon
<czajkowski> ?
<czajkowski> also Dublin being one of the most expensives placews in ireland
<mungojerry> i would probably go to the RMS event if it wasn't west end
<MooDoo> oh sorry Fedora Users And Developers conference.
<czajkowski> makes it very expensive to run events there
<MooDoo> no need to discuss here :)
<czajkowski> meh
<czajkowski> if I can help with any venues let me know
<MooDoo> czajkowski: i did have you in mind :)  thank you
<czajkowski> yes but your mind is like davmor2
<mungojerry> i listened to the uupc but no oggcamp venue mentioned..
<czajkowski> in the gutter!
<MooDoo> czajkowski: yes agreed, but i can be professional when i have to be
<czajkowski> :o
<SuperMatt> http://supermatt.net/OneiricOcelot/ When I think of Oneiric Ocelot, I think of this. Sandman book 8 - Brief Lives, chapter 6. Pages 10 to 15
<MooDoo> czajkowski: not that often though :)
<gord> what is RMS doing anyway? talking about anything interesting?
<AlanBell> gord: I would hazard a guess that he will be talking about Free Software
<mungojerry> i'd guess at: rights, data, facebook, FSF, wikileaks
<gord> AlanBell, bleeeeeeeeehhhhh
<AlanBell> and people in the audience will ask him about Open Source which will annoy him greatly
<czajkowski> *grin*
 * davmor2 prods czajkowski Oi I look down on the gutter these days,  admitted from the hight of a couple of mm's but still
<MooDoo> davmor2: you hold i'll poke with a stick
<gord> grr, why won't my usb stick boot
<AlanBell> I look up to davmor2 because I am in the gutter, but I look down on MooDoo because he uses Fedora
<Synth_sam> gord: it's not bootable
<czajkowski> gord: cause you're running natty :p
<gord> it is bootable!
<davmor2> MooDoo: knows his place
<MooDoo> AlanBell: only at work :p
<czajkowski> davmor2: yes with you on the naughty step or in the gutter!
<MooDoo> czajkowski: well i'm not going on the naughty step so there, *stamps foot*
<mungojerry> MooDoo: how often do you need to upgrade with fedora in an office environment
<brobostigon> afternoonings everyone.
<gord> oh geez my bios is insane that is why
<czajkowski> gord: yeah thats the reason
<MooDoo> mungojerry: i'm still using F13, didn't upgrade to 14
<gord> woo alpha 3 is booting, its all very exciting
<davmor2> gord: I was going to say is the bios pointed at removable hd's first
<Synth_sam> gord: is it one of those irritating bioses that adds USB flash drives to the HDD list, and you have to manually add it to the front of the priority to boot?
<gord> Synth_sam, yes
<MooDoo> mungojerry: i upgrade when ever i want to really...
<mungojerry> MooDoo: you don't have an office full of fedora wearers then
<davmor2> gord: it clears out a lot of the old issues I was have except for wifi,  atheros chips are a bit borked in natty
<davmor2> mungojerry: at work he is the fedora wearer
<mungojerry> we have 150 or so RHEL/Centos/SL users, which is OK until near the end of cycle and things get a bit old
<czajkowski> gord: http://twitter.com/#!/andypiper/status/44732271680425984
<mungojerry> would prefer debian/ubuntu tbh
<MooDoo> mungojerry: no there is about 7 of us......i could put ubuntu on it, but i CBA :)
<mungojerry> texlive isn't even available on RHEL
<MooDoo> I do however, use Ubuntu at home on my other machines.
<mungojerry> it's hardly a desktop OS anymore
<gord> davmor2, cool, i'm actually just changing from 32 bit back to 64bit, i installed 32bit accidently a while back
<davmor2> gord: It does however come with a whole heap of new unity/compiz issue expect lots of unity bugs ;)
<gord> ah, the installer changed
<gord> i wish they wouldn't change it, it always scares me that i'm gonna format wrong
<ali1234> why did they make the boot menu... no longer a boot menu?
<Synth_sam> gord: I prefer the alternate, at least you can see what you're doing then
<davmor2> gord: it's far easier now!
<Synth_sam> davmor2: does it still assume that you want grub on /dev/sda?
<davmor2> Synth_sam: you can always use expert mode on ubiquity to modify everything you need
<MooDoo> mungojerry: what's hardly a desktop os?
<mungojerry> rhel
<gord> errr i have no key input in the installer... not good
<MooDoo> mungojerry: yeah, i just use it on servers.....
<Synth_sam> davmor2: that's what I did, but I used the alternate iso, it's available on the standard one too?
<MooDoo> mungojerry: i have 3 servers at home, centos windows and debian.....i think they will do me for now
<davmor2> Synth_sam: yeap second page in iirc there is an expert mode for HD setup,  you'd have to have a look and see if it covered everything you need but I think it does
<davmor2> Synth_sam: Ubiquity is afterall only a gui frontend to debian-installer
<gord> i have never actually used/seen a windows server but the concept confuses me
<MooDoo> gord: confuses?
<gord> do you keep a monitor attached or something?
<MooDoo> gord: nope, just having running on a vmware platform that i can rdesktop to
<Synth_sam> davmor2: the maverick one allowed you to select the partitions manually, but then ran "grub-install /dev/sda" at the end of the installation, even though all of your installation was on sdc
 * Synth_sam says bye to the windows MBR on sda
 * AlanBell pokes czajkowski and the MooDoo with http://doodle.com/eucwzx2qdiiiqs5p
<davmor2> Synth_sam: yeah last screen where you could edit the details is were you can move grub to another drive I'll have to check that that is still available to be honest though
<AlanBell> and everyone else
<czajkowski> AlanBell: I've no idea...
<czajkowski> trying to find a weekend to go to ireland
<AlanBell> you can play from there
<BigRedS> that's an awfully long way away to be planning already...
<davmor2> czajkowski: Are you not irish enough do you have to go back for a topup from time to time?
<MooDoo> AlanBell: done :)
<czajkowski> davmor2: not seen my dad since dec 31st :( still a daddys girl!
 * MooDoo hands czajkowski a blankie :)
<davmor2> czajkowski: Why does that not surprise me :D
<shauno> we need to setup some kind of exchange program.  I keep looking for a good excuse to leave for a weekend :)
<MooDoo> shauno: where do you live now?
<shauno> ireland
<MooDoo> shauno: you need to come over and do the Nottingham experience ;)
<czajkowski> shauno: keep an ear out for oggcamp
<czajkowski> davmor2: oi
<davmor2> czajkowski: oi to what, you being a Daddy's Girl or Irish?
<MooDoo> davmor2: czajkowski acts all rufty tufty but we know she's a puddy tat :)
 * MooDoo runs and hides
 * czajkowski peers at MooDoo 
<davmor2> MooDoo: I point to a flaw in you plan here,  Tigers are puddy tats too ;)
<czajkowski> no cats
<MooDoo> davmor2: ah yes, ok substitute puddy tat with something else that is soft and fluffy and all ....ok i'll stop now
<shauno> was half tempted to try get across for the rugby mess, but too close to paddy's .. the natives all booked their time off last april :(
<AlanBell> MooDoo: an Ocelot
<MooDoo> AlanBell: Oneiric?
<davmor2> AlanBell: haha, topical I like it
<MooDoo> hang on we're not calling czajkowski Oneiric are we ;)
<AlanBell> how does one pronounce oneiric?
<MooDoo> one iric i would say
<MooDoo> ?
<czajkowski> MooDoo: december 19th is not far away!
<AlanBell> on air ick/
<brobostigon>  http://paste.ubuntu.com/576959/ https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-video-intel/+bug/730099
<lubotu3`> Ubuntu bug 730099 in xserver-xorg-video-intel (Ubuntu) "[i915gm] GPU lockup 0c40b170 (ESR: 0x00000001 IPEHR: 0x02000011)" [Undecided,New]
<brobostigon> any ideas. ?
<AlanBell> czajkowski: it is
<MooDoo> czajkowski: december the 19th?
 * MooDoo has gone nuts....
<czajkowski> bah
<czajkowski> March
 * czajkowski needs food 
 * brobostigon scp's czajkowski chocolate buttons.
<MooDoo> czajkowski: nope, a week on sat :)
<knightdroid> afternoon
<MooDoo> knightdroid: good afternoon
 * mungojerry is disappointed at the pie selection for pie week at the canteen
<mungojerry> Mr Narayen [Adobe CEO] said that if Flash crashed Apple products it was something "to do with the Apple operating system." hmmmm
<screen-x> and linux, and windows..
<shauno> adobe users are happy.  they love adobe.  those are fireworks you're hearing, not explosions
<mungojerry> at the trade show i went to the other day, i decided to aim for most freebies from companies i hated :P
<mungojerry> namely adobe and oracle... i couldn't bear to get a microsoft pen
<gord> not that i hate suse, but i have a suse reptile thingy plush toy :)
<popey> me too
<popey> well, my son does
<gord> its cute!
<gord> aaand fourth attempt to install ubuntu... first time i couldn't use the keyboard. second time the installer broke half way through screwing up my install, third time couldn't use the keyboard again...
 * brobostigon shouts at the natty intel drivers and compiz for gpu lockup.
<shauno> my money's on the keyboard winning this round ;)
<mungojerry> i also have some red pills from adobe...i wonder what they do?
 * davmor2 randomly prods czajkowski to make up for last week
<davmor2> MooDoo: No not one iric theres definitely more that one iric,  I mean there iric idle, there iric the python ide etc etc etc etc
<MooDoo> davmor2: you silly iric?
 * MooDoo prods czajkowski on the same spot :)
<mungojerry> ÅËnÄ«rik
<davmor2> mungojerry: thanks for clarifying that for us
<mungojerry> anytime :)
 * brobostigon has significant annoyance,
<davmor2> MooDoo: could be worse it could be On Eiric I suppose
<brobostigon> only solution, is to stay remotly ssh'd in, and get as much data when it happens as possible, and add it to the bug report. and hope it gets fixed.
<MooDoo> davmor2: i'm giving up with trying to figure that out, i think we should stick to what we're good at, annoying czajkowski
<gord> omgosh it installed!
<davmor2> gord: yeah it does that, it fails to work after but it installs :P
<gord> nope works fine
<davmor2> gord: watch out for disappearing icons in app launcher it make launching an app like a huge guessing game, it's most fun
<gord> nope launcher works fine
<mungojerry> will unity have a separate Preferences type section rather than lumping all under installed Applications?
<gord> mungojerry, open apps place you then click the drop down menu to select system apps
<davmor2> gord: give it time and you too can be effected by https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/728393
<lubotu3`> Ubuntu bug 728393 in unity (Ubuntu) "Missing icons in app launcher" [High,Triaged]
<mungojerry> gord: oh yeah, thanks ..don't recall seeing that last wek
<gord> mungojerry, its new :)
<mungojerry> huzzah
<mungojerry> getting occasional screen corruption of text - anoyone else seeing that?
<mungojerry> difficult one to pin down on launchpad...
<gord> davmor2, nope, not affecting me at all
<davmor2> gord: give it time my friend give it time :)
<gord> seriously. no
<gord> its something that is affecting your system, not mine
<davmor2> gord: I know apparently it's really hard for the devs to track down too :(
<ali1234> lol tooltips but no icons?
<ali1234> nice
<gord> ubuntu pestering you for your password if you enable auto-login is weird, i obviously don't care about security if i enable autologin!
<czajkowski> file a bug :p
<AlanBell> gord: if you don't need a password then the gnome keyring doesn't unlock
<AlanBell> so you need to unlock that to get to the wifi key
<gord> AlanBell, right, i know the technical reasons, but the experience is crappy
<AlanBell> it is
<Daviey> gord, I remember overiding that years ago, by using a shell script essentially, echo "password" | into something on login.
 * czajkowski prods Daviey 
 * Daviey sobs, and wonders why the czajkowski is mean to him.
<mungojerry> found that bug 717114 matches my screen corruption issue
 * gord puts "echo "password" > something" in his session autostart list
<lubotu3`> Launchpad bug 717114 in xserver-xorg-video-intel (Ubuntu Natty) "[i945gm] Screen Corruption with new Xorg stack with terminal programs" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/717114
<czajkowski> Daviey: I'm me
<Daviey> gord, NO!
<davmor2> gord: it's not ubuntu it's gnome keyring,  there was a fix in place for that in lucid but I think it disappeared in maverick and never made a come back,   I know I bugged it for maverick
<mungojerry> gord, i have the same issue, there must be a better way...
<Daviey> gord, it was piping it into something
<gord> Daviey, oooh, "echo "password | something"
<gord> gotcha
<Daviey> gord, lemme know if it works
<JamesTait> something: Command not found
<JamesTait> :-P
<mungojerry> but your password appears as ******* in irc :P
<Daviey> JamesTait, you need to install something, it's from the some-utils package
 * JamesTait spurts coffee out of his nose
<JamesTait> I must stop dropping in here, it's bad for my sinuses.
<JamesTait> Not to mention potentially detrimental to my productivity.
<AlanBell> No command 'something' found, did you mean: Command 'vsomething' from package 'util-vserver' (universe)
 * mungojerry can't stop eating adobe soap-flavoured jelly beans
<JamesTait> btw, S04E01 opening argument is win++.
<Daviey> AlanBell, ahh, that might be it
<AlanBell> Daviey: clearly what you had in mind :)
<JamesTait> Anyway, back to work.
<mungojerry> me too .lunch over
<AlanBell> czajkowski: I think I will take a bunch of CDs to this thing
<AlanBell> not sure I will get a photo of RMS with an Ubuntu CD, but worth a try!
<czajkowski> AlanBell: yes I'm sure RMS will love that
 * BigRedS has an oracle CD on his desk...
<mungojerry> AlanBell: maybe hide a load of ubuntu balloons inside a net on the ceiling, and let them drop at the right moment for a photo op
<davmor2> MooDoo: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/oneiric
<MooDoo> davmor2: yes i was referring to Dreamy :)
<andylockran> hey guys, anyone provide me some clues on fixing a boomerang nat?
<andylockran> got an internal ip of 192.168.1.2, an external ip of 7.7.7.7 adn 7.7.7.7 port 80 forwards to 192.168.1.2
<andylockran> when I access 7.7.7.7 from 192.168.1.4 - it works fine
<andylockran> but when I access 7.7.7.7 from 192.168.1.2 I get no conn - some kind of nat issue?
<popey> why would you access the external IP from inside?
<popey> that makes no sense
<AlanBell> it works on my router, but didn't work on my old one
<popey> ditto
<AlanBell> it does make sense because you don't have to override the dns to get it to resolve right
<davmor2> You can if you can pinhole it
<brobostigon> anyone i can kindly prod, to get 730099 fixed?
<AlanBell> bug 730099
<lubotu3`> Launchpad bug 730099 in xserver-xorg-video-intel (Ubuntu) "[i915gm] GPU lockup 0c40b170 (ESR: 0x00000001 IPEHR: 0x02000011)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/730099
<davmor2> brobostigon: I'm confused how do you prod kindly?
<AlanBell> #ubuntu-x perhaps
<brobostigon> davmor2: speak nicely too. :)
<MooDoo> davmor2: just like we do with czajkowski :)
<brobostigon> AlanBell: already  done, no response.
<screen-x> davmor2: put the cattle prod down, the proceed as usual
<AlanBell> wait for more timezones to wake up
<brobostigon> AlanBell: i was on most of yesterday, no change.
<AlanBell> and/or find someone with the same hardware to confirm it
<andylockran> popey: even though I set my mx in the hostfile, it's returning the DNS value ahead of the hosts value
<AlanBell> yesterday was Sunday
<brobostigon> AlanBell: good point.
<andylockran> I could just do with a tech term for what it's called - so I can research it more
<AlanBell> andylockran: show us that line of the hosts file?
<davmor2> MooDoo: that for her own good it shows she's loved and that she's alive!
<brobostigon> ok, anyone got a eeepc 900, with the gpu in that bug, with natty, with all recent updates,who can confirm such exists please.
<andylockran> AlanBell: 192.168.6.55    filter.zednax.com
<screen-x> andylockran: hairpin nat http://www.cisco.com/web/about/ac123/ac147/archived_issues/ipj_7-3/anatomy.html
<MooDoo> ok shush listening to s4ep1 podcast
<AlanBell> andylockran: and you ping filter.zednax.com and it returns something other than 192.168.6.55?
<andylockran> AlanBell: if I ping it, I get filter.zednax.com on 192.168.6.55
<andylockran> ar  7 14:33:20 mta0 postfix/smtp[4780]: connect to filter.zednax.com[92.63.131.65]:25: Connection timed out
<andylockran> but I get that in the logs ^^
<AlanBell> oooh ok
<screen-x> andylockran: what do you have for hosts in /etc/nsswitch.conf?
<andylockran> hosts:       files dns
<screen-x> so /etc/hosts should take priority.
<AlanBell> andylockran: http://www.postfix-jp.info/origdocs/QandA-en.html#4.10
<screen-x> AlanBell: useful, didnt know that postfix did it's own dns resolution.
<AlanBell> I recall being bitten by the "postfix doesn't care about /etc/hosts" thing before
<X3N> It's good that it doesn't quite a lot of the time I've found
<AlanBell> why?
<issyl0> Hello all.
<issyl0> dutchie: yep.  :-)
<andylockran> awesome - thanks :)
<directhex> postfix is for people who don't understand exim
<X3N> It means that postfix is more reliably going to respond to mail hostnames that it knows it handles
<andylockran> It's only come up because I'm running it inside a Virtual Machine I think
<andylockran> normally never notice
<X3N> as hosts are often virtual
<dogmatic69> does ubuntu have a 'pre install' of 10.10 x64 ec2 that i can use
<dogmatic69> see some pre existing ones, but a official one would be cool
<screen-x> dogmatic69: http://uec-images.ubuntu.com/server/lucid/current/
<dogmatic69> screen-x: nice, looks like what i need
<dogmatic69> any docs for that?
<screen-x> dogmatic69: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/EC2StartersGuide
<dogmatic69> thanks
<shauno> love short shifts :)  already home and the sun's still out :D
<screen-x> shauno: great day to have an afternoon off :)
<dogmatic69> its pretty awesome outside
 * shauno peeks out the curtains
<shauno> aye.  that fire thing is doing it's thing again
<MooDoo> nice ride home for me then :)
<shauno> hm.  I appear to have broken something.  a file named /foo keeps appearing containing '10'.
<Azelphur> Hmm, trying to install 11.04. As soon as I get past the BIOS I just get a blinking cursor at the top left. Nothing else happens
<Azelphur> any ideas?
<shauno> do you hear the disk even spin up at all?  (assuming you're installing from optical ..)
<Azelphur> I installed from LiveUSB and it went into the Live mode and that was all fine
<Azelphur> this is post install
<hamitron> no grub?
<Azelphur> no grub, just blinking cursor :(
<DJones> Azelphur: Have you tried recovery mode
<MooDoo> lol number 14 please davina lol
 * MooDoo is listening to the podcast
<Azelphur> DJones, how can I get recovery mode if theres no grub?
<dogmatic69> what is the default for a ssh-keygen... not 1024bit RSA i take it
<Azelphur> http://ustream.tv/channel/Azelphur now you can all see my screen, btw :p
<screen-x> Azelphur: I'd boot from install media and reinstall grub.
<DJones> Azelphur: Hold down the left shift key at boot, that should bring up the grub menu
 * Azelphur tries
<MooDoo> Azelphur: me looks
<MooDoo> Azelphur: yep that works
<Azelphur> DJones, shift don't work, I don't think it makes it to grub
<Azelphur> lol
<Azelphur> MooDoo, see the blinking cursor of doom? \o/
<MooDoo> yeah
<Azelphur> screen-x, booting from USB now see if I get anyhere
<MooDoo> Azelphur: oi get your hand out the way :)
<Azelphur> haha
<screen-x> Azelphur: whats with those pots in front of the screen?
<Azelphur> I was getting my USB stick :p
<Azelphur> screen-x, that's my midi piano :D
<screen-x> ahh :)
<screen-x> I see..
<Azelphur> ok so up in live, how do I reinstall grub?
<screen-x> Azelphur: start with grub-install
<screen-x> Azelphur: but you may need to chroot into the hdd install.
<Azelphur> gonna use gparted quickly to check which drive to install to :)
<MartijnVdS> FORE! http://i.imgur.com/XNKcx.jpg
<Azelphur> says "error: found two disks with the index 0 for RAID md1." "/usr/sbin/grub-probe: error: cannot stat aufs."
<Azelphur> which is weird because I shouldn't have any raid arrays
<screen-x> Azelphur: cat /proc/mdstat
<Azelphur> "Personalities : " "unused devices: <none>"
<screen-x> so no arrays are active, have the disks been used for RAID before?
<Azelphur> I did try to raid them unsuccessfully a while back
<Azelphur> but I've been using them as single drives for a long time since then
<Azelphur> screen-x, looking at the drives in gparted, they don't have the raid flag
<screen-x> Azelphur: try mdadm --assemble --scan and see if /proc/mdstat picks up anything.
<popey> o_O
<Azelphur> screen-x, no data loss on that right? :P
<screen-x> popey: I take it that means bad plan?
<Azelphur> I don't want it to decide to "recover" an array that never existed, that won't end well
<popey> indeed
<popey> you dont actually _want_ raid do you?
<Azelphur> no I don't
<dogmatic69> how do i create a pub key for aws?
<screen-x> but if the disks are identified as part of an array, then that label needs to be removed.
<dogmatic69> using ssh-keygen ones is not working
<popey> assembling the array isnt wise though, surely?
<popey> Azelphur: what does sudo fdisk -l show?
<screen-x> Azelphur: is there stuff you mind loosing on these disks?
<popey> pastebin?
<Azelphur> screen-x, yup lol
<popey> are they just marked as type fd or something?
<screen-x> Azelphur: ahh sorry
<cbx33> boo-ya all
<popey> get you
 * Azelphur grabs pastebinit
<screen-x> Azelphur: bad assumption that people who have just installed, have no data to lose..
<Azelphur> haha, 4 drives on this machine
<Azelphur> I'm all for wiping one of them, but not the others :D
<Azelphur> taking ages to do an update so I can get pastebinit :x
<Azelphur> popey, http://pastebin.com/HeYH1ZSq
<Azelphur>  /dev/sdb being the drive I installed on
<popey> ok
<popey> looks sane
<popey> whats the problem again? :D
<Azelphur> popey, installed ok to /dev/sdb, but when I boot I get past the bios and then I just get a blinking cursor
<Azelphur> :(
<popey> did you specify where grub was to be installed?
<Azelphur> not during the install, no
<Azelphur> maybe it put grub on /dev/sda
<popey> do you choose the boot disk at boot time?
<popey> because it might be booting off sda, but grub on sdb?
<Azelphur> no, I have it set to sdb
<Azelphur> yup, grub was on sda, it boots now
<Azelphur> :D
<popey> heh
<popey> thats fixable
<popey> if you want to
<Azelphur> *shrug* I'm ok with it
<popey> good
<popey> :)
<Azelphur> now the question is...how will unity fair with quad screen?
<Azelphur> I have a feeling this will end somewhat badly
<Azelphur> Experimental 3D support for NVIDIA cards o.O, I assume thats nouveau?
<shauno> ooh.  I thought you were just bouncing names around.  he's actually going ahead with earache ocelot?  snazzy.
 * screen-x stops spying on Azelphur 
<Tommeh> Azelphur: that would be nouveau
<Azelphur> hehe
<Tommeh> I think
<Tommeh> It's realted to KMS support, IIRC
<Azelphur> lol compiz crashed and I havn't even done anything strange yet
<Azelphur> lol yup, unity on quad screen = totally broken/unusable :D
<Azelphur> figured it'd be a step down as usual lol
<Azelphur> theres no task launcher on my other screen, and I don't even need to check to say it'll have a single instance check stopping it from coming up on the second screen :p
<Azelphur> I wonder if nouveau can do proper multi screen.
<Azelphur> popey, the option from jockey disappeared :(
<Azelphur> that's a shame, I wanted to try it
<Azelphur> it's probably gone because nouveau doesn't support the GTX 570 no doubt, though
<Tommeh> nouveau has RandR support.
<Azelphur> :D
<Tommeh> Azelphur: if you pull down the xorg-edgers packages, I believe nouveau would
<Tommeh> http://nouveau.freedesktop.org/wiki/FeatureMatrix
<Azelphur> :)
<Azelphur> how do I get the xorg-edgers packages?
<brobostigon> their ppa, i believe.
<Tommeh> Yes, have a google -- you'll find their PPA page.
<Tommeh> It includes the xorg drivers packaged from git -- same goes for X and mesa
<gord> huh, is there another census going on?
<gord> i don't pay attention to anything uk based ;)
<Tommeh> You'll want to have a very recent kernel, too
<Tommeh> 2.6.38-rc7 is probably as good as any.
 * Tommeh is running it now :)
<Tommeh> gord: there is, and it might be the last
<Azelphur> installing it now :D
<Azelphur> Tommeh, is there a ppa I should be on for kernels?
<Tommeh> Mmm..
<Tommeh> I think there is, but I just go straight to here: http://kernel.ubuntu.com/~kernel-ppa/mainline/
<Tommeh> You might prefer, https://launchpad.net/~kernel-ppa/+archive/ppa
<Tommeh> But I just install the .deb's manually with dpkg
<Azelphur> hehe I'll go with the ppa *shrug*
<Tommeh> Azelphur: Hmm.. Actually there's not much in that PPA
<Tommeh> Just Natty backports for lucid
<Azelphur> yea, apt-get update fails on that ppa for me
<Tommeh> So if you're running Natty, don't worry. And if you're on Maverick, download from the first URI
<Azelphur> I'm on natty :)
<Azelphur> there we go, Experimental 3D support has returned, installing it now :)
<Azelphur> Tommeh, hmm doesn't look promising, I only see 2 of my 4 monitors in the display preferences
<Azelphur> How can I be sure I'm running nouveau? I'm still unsure as to if it'll work on my card :p
<popey> look in /var/log/Xorg.0.log
<Tommeh> Azelphur: did you look at the feature matrix link? Support is listed there.
<Tommeh> IIRC all of the cards have 2D support
<Azelphur> yea I see lots oe nouveau in xorg.conf so I must be running it
<Azelphur> Tommeh, I doubt I'll find much info on >2 displays, it's a bit of a niche subject
<popey> not xorg.conf, /var/log/Xorg.0.log
<Azelphur> sorry, that's what I meant
<popey> ok
<Azelphur> brain fart :p
<Azelphur> It see's the monitors on my GTX 570, but not the ones connected to the 8800GT
<Tommeh> Azelphur: It won't specifically list that, I never intended for you to find that out
<Tommeh> Nouveau is mostly a WIP, so you should check to see if X RandR support is complete/WIP/not there, etc.
<Azelphur> I see
<Tommeh> Azelphur: spanning two cards is *definitely* a nich subject, lol
<Tommeh> *niche
<Azelphur> haha
<Azelphur> it's the only way to do more than 2 displays though
<Tommeh> Well, it isn't
<Azelphur> barring the new ATI displayport stuff
<Tommeh> :)
<Tommeh> Expensive though, I know what you mean
<Azelphur> and ATI + Wine games = lolno
<Azelphur> and also dual head to go + games = lolno :p
<Azelphur> so yea, only choice is multi card if you need performance and lots of displays
<Tommeh> ATI FOSS 3D accel is based on Gallium3D, in the same way that Nouveau's is
<Azelphur> hehe
<Tommeh> So you'll likely have as much luck with either of those (if not less with nouveau)
<Azelphur> true
<Tommeh> But anyway, you know there's a
<Tommeh> *you know there's a #nouveau channel?
<Azelphur> already there :D
<Tommeh> Ah :)
<Tommeh> Mind the cranky dev.
 * Azelphur takes cover :p
<Azelphur> haha, they are being nice to me because they want a mimo trace from my gtx 570 :D
<popey> they are nice anyway
<popey> IMO
<popey> one of the guys there fixed a bug I had with nouveau in a matter of minutes
<popey> and I was able to patch and test it myself
<SuperMatt> that reminds me, I need to raise a bug about mouse buttons, but I don't know where to start
<kazade> popey, with a tiny bit of help ;)
<SuperMatt> essentially, if you switch mouse buttons for lefties, on occsion it won't let you "left click" (which is now on the right) until you've "right clicked" (which is now on the left)
<Azelphur> popey, indeed :)
<jacobw2> \o/ new podcast
 * jacobw2 is listening to now
<BigRedS> SuperMatt: I'd go with something X-related
<BigRedS> how easy is it to reproduce?
<SuperMatt> it seems to just happen about once an hour
<SuperMatt> I can't work out if there's anything that causes it
<BigRedS> hmm, bit weird. But, yeah, if you can demonstrate its existence (or lack of) outside of, say, Gnome, that'd help pick a package
<SuperMatt> oh man, you mean install kde or lxde? D:
<BigRedS> or, alternatively, file a bug against something of your choosing and someone who knows more than you may come along and reassign it
<BigRedS> hah, I'd never wish to impose either of those on anyone :)
<MooDoo> jacobw2: the quiz is funny :)
<BigRedS> actually, I've never seen lxde, so I've no idea what it's like
<bigcalm> Good afternoon peeps :)
<SuperMatt> BigRedS: I was thinking of raising it against gnome-mouse-properties, seeing as that is what I used to switch the buttons
<BigRedS> Ah yeah, that seems as good a place as any
<BigRedS> you'll at least get all the mousey gnome people
<SuperMatt> I thought so
<BigRedS> who're best placed, if need be, to say "no. that's a problem in Y"
<SuperMatt> I imagine there just aren't many people in the world that'd be bothered to switch it
<SuperMatt> question is, raise it in ubuntu, or raise it in gnome? Because right now I know it only to affect ubuntu
<silner> BigRedS, have you seen openbox? It's similar to Lxde in many ways
<BigRedS> silner: yeah, I keep flitting between openbox and gnome
<BigRedS> well, *box and gnome, openbox is the most recent one
<brobostigon> silner: openbox is lxde's WM, as far as i know.openbox is a WM, and lxde is a DE.
<BigRedS> brobostigon: ahhhh, so it's somebody else having gone to the trouble of configuring openbox?
<brobostigon> is the*
<BigRedS> that's why I keep going back to gnome... :)
<silner> brobostigon no owned they seem similar :)
<silner> Some systems say they use OB and others Lxde - no wonder I couldn't tell the difference :)
<brobostigon> silner: they are fundementally different, but you canuse openbox as a WM, without anything else ontop, yes.
<silner> I like Crunchbang's implementation and I like Lubuntu too
<silner> I'd say CB has the edge but it's close
<brobostigon> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LXDE#Components confirmed, openbox alone, or lxde as the DE, and openbox as the WM.
<kazade> what the...
<kazade> I just opened Libreoffice in the first time in ages
<kazade> anyone else got catastrophically bad idcons ?
<kazade> *icons
<silner> brobostigon,  Right so my guess now is that Lubuntu is Lxde, but Crunchbang uses OpenBox slightly differently
<silner> I nearly always use Abiword now, though I will try Libreoffice soon out of curiosity
<brobostigon> silner: lubuntu uses lxde as its DE (openbox as its WM). crunchbang used openbox alone.
<silner> brobostigon, strange - you'd think that would make Lxde seem fuller, but it doesn't feel that way. CB is nicer, but it's not much faster
<brobostigon> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CrunchBang_Linux#Comparison_with_Ubuntu
<brobostigon> as it says there, it uses oopenbox alone,
<popey> crunchbang uses openbox and xfce
<brobostigon> popey: i understand, it canuse either, or.
<brobostigon> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CrunchBang_Linux#Features as it says there.
<silner> CB is a very interesting project. It's way more than the usual offshoot or Ubuntu or Debian. I know it includes some non free stuff, but it seems like only the stuff that has no real FREE correlates to me
<silner> I have used CB as my netbook distro for some time now - Ubuntu Desktop and Fedora laptop (Fedora supports PCMCIA card batter)
<BigRedS> i keep meaning to try crunchbang, but I'm getting a bit bored of distro-hopping recently
<BigRedS> I've become a proper debian user I think. I despise change...
<silner> I don't distro hop as such any more BigRedS I just like all three for different purposes and intend to keep it that way
<popey> silner: what non-free stuff does it include?
<silner> Skype is the main one I use popey
<popey> (I didnt see any non-free stuff when i installed it on my eee900)
<popey> thats not included by default, the cb_welcome script goes and gets it and installs it as an option
<popey> but you have to choose to do it
<silner> Oh I may have installed it popey I've had it for a while now - not even this version
<silner> Not statler
<popey> I am running statler
<popey> its very nice
<popey> has a first run wizard that lets you chosoe extra stuff to install
<Azelphur> popey, happen to know if theres a way to disable unity in 11.04?
<popey> shame its based on debian and not ubuntu now :(
<BigRedS> Azelphur: apt-get install gnome I'd have thought
<popey> Azelphur: yes, login with classic desktop
<popey> no BigRedS
<BigRedS> oh, or that. even easieer
<silner> I do need to upgrade but I really hate the backup thing. One reason I could never work in tech :)
<Azelphur> ah, sounds easy
<Azelphur> I'd use it if it worked with multiple X screens
<Azelphur> hopefully one day the nouveau people will rescue me from my multi X pain :p
<silner> popey, does that make any practical difference though
<silner> I was wondering that popey would statler deprive me of using Ubuntu ppas - like Pino for eg?
<SuperMatt> BigRedS: I hope this explains my issue clearly enough: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-control-center/+bug/730737
<lubotu3`> Ubuntu bug 730737 in gnome-control-center (Ubuntu) "After swapping mouse buttons in gnome-mouse-properties, the buttons occasionally "hang"" [Undecided,New]
<popey> silner: well, it's never going to be a blessed downstream if it's based on debian :)
<bigcalm> popey: http://www.myrant.net/2011/03/07/mimicking-wordpress-coms-image-resize-uris/ # may or may not be of use to you
<bigcalm> Haha, I got 2 ping back notifications as I linked 2 posts to each other
<popey> neat
<BigRedS> SuperMatt: thinking about it, I might've seen that with the buttons the right-way-round
<BigRedS> I'll have to check with the guy that had it
<bigcalm> I do like the system of adding width and height to the end of an image URI to resize it
<davmor2> czajkowski, popey: And others have you written out your UDS proposals yet?
<Laney> yep
<popey> davmor2: no
<popey> tbh I can't see myself getting sponsored
<popey> there's a lot more 'important' people out there
<screen-x> !popey
<lubotu3`> popey is the UK alternative to elvis.
<bigcalm> Who is more important than a Pope?
<screen-x> ;-)
<popey> A dog?
<davmor2> popey: there's always a need for a mic monkey ;)
<bigcalm> A: everybody
<Azelphur> popey, any idea what happened to the Visual Effects tab on Appearance properties?
<popey> xhmm?
<popey> Azelphur: what do you mean by "happened"?
<Azelphur> the tab in Appearance properties for enabling compiz
<Azelphur> well, happened as in it's gone
<popey> what session are you logged into?
<davmor2> Azelphur: is this in Natty
<Azelphur> yup natty
<Azelphur> popey, classic desktop
<popey> surely its already enabled?
<popey> as in compiz
<davmor2> Azelphur: Unity only works in 3d mode
<Azelphur> I'm in classic desktop so no unity
<popey> there's two session options, one with and one without compiz
<Azelphur> I see
<popey> iirc
<Azelphur> they probably replaced it with that then
 * popey logs out of unity to see
<Azelphur> what irritates me is I don't know how to start compiz properly for multi X without that button :D
<popey> ALT+F2, compiz --replace
<popey> is the old school way of doing it
<brobostigon> interesting, on three payg, for Â£15 a quid a month, you get unlimited data,
<popey> yes, on GDM screen there is under sessions "Ubuntu Classic Desktop" and "Ubuntu Classic Desktop (No effect)
<popey> *unlimited: note, not unlimited.
<brobostigon> agreed.
<Azelphur> popey, I thought 3 had decided to stop doing that?
<gord> someone submitted a patch, have to get them to sign the CC first but its great, lets you have any size launcher in unity. have a 32-pixel width one at the moment
<popey> how wide is it usually?
<MartijnVdS> can I move the launcher bar yet?
<davmor2> popey: 64 iirc
<gord> erm 42 i think
<gord> MartijnVdS, iirc thats being left up to a community person, for RTL languages
<bigcalm> Any suggestions for some nice piano music?
<MartijnVdS> gord: I want it for my LTR language tbh :)
 * brobostigon tries to find three's payg "all you can eat",terms and conditions.
<Azelphur> hmm, not getting along with the new media player (banshee), it doesn't seem interested in opening m3u files for internet radio at all
<Azelphur> Rhythmbox handled em no problem
<Azelphur> Rhythmbox was like "I'm batman" and added them to the internet radio tab so I could change station easy :D
<davmor2> Azelphur: known bug thought it got fixed.  Start banshee from command line and try it again to confirm it is that bug
<Azelphur> davmor2, weird, worked when I tried it from command line
<Azelphur> any way for me to put m3u/pls into the Radio tab?
<davmor2> Azelphur: in that case known bug.  for that you have to add a radio station from fresh I think
<Azelphur> fun \o/
<Azelphur> guess I'll jump to banshee to follow the crowd once that's fixed, I only use media players for internet radio :p
<davmor2> Azelphur: I'm with you in that I think RB is the better player but the community spoke out and wanted banshee
<davmor2> Azelphur: there is a stream cast plugin that gives you loads of channels
<Azelphur> hmm, it doesn't seem to ship with it
 * brobostigon cant find, three's "all you can eat" apparent unlimited data allowance, terms and conditions.
<Azelphur> found it in the repo, but it supporting shoutcast.com and not icecast.com makes me facepalm
<Azelphur> icecast being the non-evil, open source allowed version of shoutcast
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: Banshee is mono.. that's already evil :)
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: evil + evil = good?
<MartijnVdS> maybe?
<davmor2> Azelphur: I didn't say it was perfik I just said it was there
<Azelphur> haha
<Azelphur> wow mono
<bigcalm> Who chose to name it after the 'kissing disease'?
<Azelphur> I'll go back to rb :D
<jpds> bigcalm: Spanish/Catalan for monkey.
<bigcalm> Aha
<bigcalm> So no referece to .NET in the name
<jpds> No, just the native language of the creator.
<popey> he loves monkeys
<bigcalm> I see :)
<bigcalm> popey: who doesn't?
<popey> well, indeed
<bigcalm> I'm a code monkey
<jpds> popey: "El ama a los mono", repete.
<gil> Is there a nice current ppa for playing with gnome-shell on natty? All the ppas I've managed to find seem to be obsoleted or borked :(
<brobostigon> gil: try the gnome3 teams, it all there, :)
<brobostigon> gil: and it not broken, i have it running here, no broken'ness.
<cbx33> is it nice?
<cbx33> clean?
<cbx33> like gnome?
<cbx33> :p
<MartijnVdS> it's so clean they're even removing the maximize/minimize buttons now
<MartijnVdS> they're out of other things to remoev
<bigcalm> I can understand not needing them if you're on a 10" screen. But anything bigger and you might want to be able to resize at the click of a button
 * bigcalm is sad
<MartijnVdS> I'll keep using Gnome 2 then
<X3N> they're not totally gone, it's just in a context menu now
<brobostigon> iam part-time gnome-shell/gnome3 and unity, right now.
<X3N> the breif rational is that maximise can be done by dragging the app to the top and you don't need minimise because you have automatic workspaces
<X3N> iirc
<X3N> *brief
<MartijnVdS> yeah I discovered that "feature" in compiz the other day
<MartijnVdS> it also does "half-maximizing" if you drag to the left or right side of the screen
<MartijnVdS> which is annoying if you're trying to tile up terminals :)
<X3N> I suspect that'll be something developed in the future
<andypiper> Can anyone help me to work out where on launchpad a bug belongs?
<andypiper> I installed a fresh Natty Alpha 3 on a netbook
<andypiper> but on boot, no input buttons / clicks work
<andypiper> goes for touchpad, and for USB mouse
<andypiper> if I switch to a console and reinsert psmouse module then it "sometimes" comes back but I'm still not seeing the trackpad buttons working, only tap-to-click
<andypiper> not sure - is this kernel?
 * andypiper taps the side of the glass bottle
<Azelphur> I'm poking popey way too much today, but he probably knows :x
<gord> andypiper, might be xorg, try asking #ubunt-x maybe?
<X3N> andypiper: can you use external mouse/keyboard?
<andypiper> ta
<andypiper> keyboard is interesting in Unity! you can search for apps in the launcher panel, but then you can't select them without using the mouse
<andypiper> external mouse - I figured plugging on in would work, but no, only moves pointer, no clicks work
<Baikonur> i'm alternating between wonders of the solar system and 'look around you'
<Baikonur> to make sure i'm kept in balance
<bigcalm> Wish they made more of Look Around You
<andylockran> hey dudes
 * andylockran is on my new macbook pro :p
<andylockran> no what you want to hear I guess
<andylockran> can you get terminator for OSX.?
<BigRedS> andylockran: yeah
<BigRedS> hah, no, not that terminator :)
<andylockran> the terminator as in apt-get install terminator ?
<andylockran> is that the same as the tenshu.net one ?
<BigRedS> andylockran: I think they are the same
<BigRedS> it's jessies.org that's the different one
<BigRedS> a java-based terminal emulator
<andylockran> ah, ok
<andylockran> I'll take a look at the fink project soon I'm sure..
<Azelphur> I'm trying to help the nouveau people by getting an mmio trace for my gtx 570, In order to do so I need to reload the nvidia module
<Azelphur> I can unload it ok, but when I try and modprobe it again it says it doesn't exist
<brobostigon> http://blog.three.co.uk/2010/12/15/new-all-you-can-eat-data-on-the-one-plan/ they are saying there, no fair use policy and no data restrictions.
<MartijnVdS> hmm
<brobostigon> idoubt it, very much,
<MartijnVdS> if only they did that here
<Azelphur> brobostigon, I'm pretty sure three don't have one, their CEO came out with a press release a while back stating that advertising unlimited when it wasn't really unlimited was one of the dumbest things he'd ever done.
<brobostigon> Azelphur: so it is truly what it says it is, then?
<Azelphur> based on what I've read, yes I'd say so
<dutchie> andylockran: you could just ask Ng, as he did write the thing (and istr uses a mac)
<Azelphur> it really is unlimited no fup
<Azelphur> Sky unlimited for landlines is also unlimited no fup
<brobostigon> Azelphur: thats amazing in which case, i am impressed.
<Azelphur> brobostigon, indeed, if you look around the three website now you'll see they do have plans that are capped too, but the caps are clearly advertisied
<Azelphur> there is no unlimited* crap
<Azelphur> I spend a lot of my time looking for the no fup isps :p
<Azelphur> giffgaff for your mobile, three for your mobile broadband, sky for landline adsl :D
<Azelphur> they all have no FUP
<brobostigon> :)
<Azelphur> I also believe one of the virgin packages has no FUP (the MAX one?)
<Azelphur> the evil fup trend may be ending :D
<brobostigon> maybe,
<andylockran> dutchie: that would be sensible.
<andylockran> ping Ng
<brobostigon> i think i will try one of three's payg free sims, and see what there coverage and things are like,
<brobostigon> test them out.
<popey> ebenink
<dutchie> i beg your pardon popey?
<brobostigon> has popey had a drink?
<popey> no
<andylockran> how's things popey
<daubers> Evening
<Azelphur> halp I broke apt :( http://pastebin.com/Y2F9CiUh
<Azelphur> when ever I try and install anything I get that
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: remove the line that tries to remove that key from /var/lib/dpkg/info/pidgin-ppa.postrm
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: (just put a # in front of the line)
<MartijnVdS> this is wizard-level hackery, beware :)
<Azelphur> success :D
<Azelphur> haha
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: only one level up from here.. editing /var/lib/dpkg/available :)
<Azelphur> :p
<dogmatic69_> im ssh'ed into my slicehost server and clicking on terminal does funny things.. outputting garbage
<dogmatic69_> any clue what this is?
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69_: yes. A program set the terminal to "report mouse events" mode
<MartijnVdS> but didn't turn it off when it terminated
<dogmatic69_> hmm
<dogmatic69_> new terminal works ok, thanks
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69_: there is a way to disable it
<dogmatic69_> could be cheokee or htop
<dogmatic69_> had a broken pipe on that window
<MartijnVdS> htop probably
<dogmatic69_> ye
<MartijnVdS> echo -e '\e[?1000l'
<MartijnVdS> that should disable it :)
<Azelphur> lol, watching the debug log for compiz to figure out where my window decorations are going
<Azelphur> "unity-window-decorator" <errorspam>
<Azelphur> "Oh, that's where they are going"
<caulkz> evening :)
<Azelphur> lol I just had an interesting thought, if you completely replace every element of the UI, is it still Ubuntu? XD
<ali1234> if you use ubuntu repos it's ubuntu
<Azelphur> suppose :p
<ali1234> if you are actually going to go to the trouble building your own ui you may as well use debian
<ali1234> since you won't benefit in any way from any of the work put into ubuntu
<Azelphur> I'm not building anything really, it's just I use cairo-dock instead of gnome-panel, I don't use nautilus desktop, I have my own theme and everything
<Azelphur> if you was to look at it you wouldn't be able to tell it was Ubuntu at all
<hewbass> Evening all!
<HazRPG> howdy everyone
<MartijnVdS>  \o haz
<hewbass> Liking the new flashy Unity on Ubuntu Natty... I shall be interested to see how much I still like it after prolonged use :) (well... it is quite a change)
<hewbass> (although it took me a while to realise that F10 was the way to get keyboard focus to the indicators!)
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: \o
<brobostigon> evening HazRPG :)
<HazRPG> brobostigon: evening :)
<brobostigon> :)
<HazRPG> seems the guy who had trouble with my extension tried to chat me with earlier, but I wasn't around. They've just opened up a chat just now, however they're not replying... which is weird :S
<ali1234> wow debian comes on 8 dvds
<Azelphur> needs moar dvds.
<ali1234> i guess that's the whole of all the repos
<HazRPG> ali1234: woaahhhh
<Azelphur> yea, it is
<hewbass> Does anybody else see the 'Unknown body response' error when using IMAP+ in evolution? (I get it with large gmail folders such as '[GMail]/All Mail'?
<Azelphur> Trying to play minecraft, keep getting java.awt.HeadlessException...but I'm not headless
<Azelphur> :(
<ali1234> hewbass: not seen that one but evolution is pretty awful with gmail in general
<Azelphur> indeed, I use Thunderbird with gmail
<HazRPG> hewbass: hmm, I don't seem to have trouble with IMAP (without the plus sign)
<DJones> Azelphur: If I didn't know better, I'd suggest you were playing on a headless server, but with 4 screens ...... I guess not :)
<hewbass> ali1234: gmail is not kind to any imap clients, but I have not found evolution to be particularly bad (although it is slow compared to Thunderbird)
<Azelphur> DJones: haha
<brobostigon> k9 on android seems pretty good, after a few weeks of using it.
<Azelphur> so can anyone help me get minecraft working? http://pastebin.com/Jqi3dufx
<hewbass> HazRPG: works fine with IMAP (no plus) ... but I would like to use the IDLE option (available with from IMAP+)
<Azelphur> I have a house to build :(
<danfish> +1 for k9
<HazRPG> hewbass: try it with IMAP regular, then change the settings to IMAP+ and see if that works
<HazRPG> that way it doesn't have to download the whole lot
<HazRPG> hewbass: if that does fix the problem, might be worth sending them a bug report
<Azelphur> brobostigon danfish +1 too :P
<hewbass> HazRPG: it caches IMAP and IMAP+ completely seperately, so it does re-download the whole lot...
<danfish> evening all btw :)
<HazRPG> brobostigon: k9?
<HazRPG> danfish: evening :)
<brobostigon> evening danfish :)
<hewbass> HazRPG: will try to gather enough information for a bug report I guess...
<brobostigon> HazRPG: k9 is an android email client.
<HazRPG> hewbass: my gmail is very full too, I'll see if I can get the same effect on mine to help confirm it is a bug :)
<HazRPG> but brb for a moment
<hewbass> HazRPG: Thx!
<danfish> brobostigon: and one that has been very actively and well developed over the last year IMO
<brobostigon> danfish: i agree, yes, it has improved alot. and is fully OSS, :)
<danfish> :)
 * danfish really wants an affordable, well spec'd android tablet
<MartijnVdS> danfish: Wait a few years :)
 * brobostigon too.
<danfish> ideally that could boot ubuntu aswell
<MartijnVdS> or: would you like a pony with that? :)
<brobostigon> and haiku-os.
<danfish> MartijnVdS: I know - moon on a stick...
<danfish> anyone see the ISS and shuttle overhead this evening?
<Azelphur> yay got minecraft working
<brobostigon> danfish: i didnt know, :(
<brobostigon> and it is a clear night, aswell.
<dutchie> i saw them the other day
<danfish> brobostigon: don't worry - they are visible for two more nights
<danfish> let me get the linl
<danfish> s/linl/link
<HazRPG> brobostigon: nice :)
 * MartijnVdS saw the ISS a while ago
<brobostigon> danfish: which direction ? what angle and compass direction ?
<MartijnVdS> but usually it's too light polluted here :(
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: i am lucky, i am on the inner skirts of a smalltown, so its not too bad.
<danfish> http://www.n2yo.com/
<brobostigon> thank you danfish :)
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: I'm just north of an area full of greenhouses...
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: who keep their lights on at night to make stuff grow faster
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: ah, not good, :(
<HazRPG> doesn't even know what an ISS is...
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: space station
<brobostigon> HazRPG: international space station*
<HazRPG> ah wait, yes I do then :)
<hewbass> Has anyone been using Natty for a reasonable amount of time? The effort going into the design (and implementation) is quite noticeable -- the New Unity is a big improvement...
<brobostigon> ok, if i have 3g  turned on, k9 will take less  time to check email's. if i have it only on 2g, k9  will take longer to get email. which will use less power overall. ?
<directhex> what's your polling interval?
<brobostigon> danfish: push, no polling.
<ali1234> brobostigon: 2g will use less power
<brobostigon> ali1234: i agree, yes.
<danfish> brobostigon: IIRC android at present doesn't really do pushing in the conventional sense, but tries to maintain a constant connection
<ali1234> unless you get 100000 emails per day, you wont see much speed difference
<hewbass> brobostigon: if I remember correctly, it (on average) takes more power to hold an open (but idle) 3G packet connection than a 2G packet connection (your mileage may vary with distance to tower, and how much congestion)
<MartijnVdS> hewbass: that's changing with operators adopting a new "hot standby" mode for 3G though
<ali1234> well, unless your imap client is completely broken and likes to download the whole mailbox every time
<brobostigon> danfish: can you elaborate please.
<brobostigon> ali1234: hmm, ok.
<ali1234> *cough* maemo 5 *cough*
<MartijnVdS> "Network Controlled Fast Dormancy"
<brobostigon> hewbass: i have my suspictions, on that, :)
<danfish> brobostigon: let me find the link - it's from some mqtt stuff i've been doing
<brobostigon> danfish: thank you.
<brobostigon> however the idea in my head was, wont it take less power, if it takes lessrunning time for k9  to be running.
<hewbass> MartijnVds: I thought they'd only just got around to agreeing the standard? I didn't think anyone was deploying kit/software updates to take care of it yet?
<caulkz> done a whois, works - thanks guys :D
<danfish> brobostigon: the gist of it is here http://tokudu.com/2010/how-to-implement-push-notifications-for-android/
<brobostigon> danfish: thank you.
<MartijnVdS> hewbass: T-Mobile is deploying it in the Netherlands
<MartijnVdS> hewbass: most new phones do it
<ali1234> 3G idle seems to use more battery than wifi idling
<brobostigon> ali1234: i thought wifi used alot of battery, wow.
<hewbass> MartijnVds: cool...
<ali1234> it does, 3G uses even more...
<brobostigon> ouch. :(
<brobostigon> ali1234: i think i might need to carry a hydrogen fuel cell around with me soon, to power my phone.
<HazRPG> its too cloudy to see the ISS :(
<HazRPG> where I am
<HazRPG> :(
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: piezo generators on your joints :)
<ali1234> you could just get a normal phone
<cbx33> hey - good evening peeps
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: interesting idea, :)
<ali1234> instead of fancy android stuff
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: a what?
<hewbass> brobostigan: older wifi chipsets/softwares were power hungry. Bear in mind with wifi, you are generally pretty close to the basestation, and the phone's firmware will not be so aggressive about maintaining a connection. If you get bad/no tower reception when set to 3G you might notice your phone getting warmer to the hand as it ramps up power to the amplifiers to try and hold a signal...
<caulkz> sorry guys, wrong channel :/
<MartijnVdS> my phone only gets hot when I use its CPU
<HazRPG> hewbass: what settings do you have on evolution to see if I can recreate this problem?
<brobostigon> hewbass: i am getting about a 50% 3g signal here, so it isnt bad, but could be better, i have noticed much heat yet,
<hewbass> MartijnVds: you play too many video games on it? :)
<MartijnVdS> hewbass: no, but sometimes the web browser goes mad and when I check it has 30 tabs open
 * brobostigon has quake on his once.
<brobostigon> had*
<hewbass> brobostigan: my phone used to warm my pocket, deep in our office building when it could not get a signal...
<brobostigon> hewbass: wow, not good.
<hewbass> HazRPG: the only setting I changed was to set the receive protocol to IMAP+ and turn on idle...
<hewbass> Better go... got chores to do. G'night everyone!
<brobostigon> hewbass: i think the next few days, i will do power measuremets, with background data off and all that, wirth only k9 on pushretrieval, and see how it behaves.
<brobostigon> ok, ohwell.
<brobostigon> washing up, here we come, :(
<brobostigon> brb.
<brobostigon> washing up done,
<brobostigon> back pain though,
<HazRPG> Hmm, I just wondered... do we not have like an ubuntu-uk calendar?
<HazRPG> like a shared google maps one or something
<brobostigon> HazRPG: tht is a good idea, :)
<HazRPG> for having meeting dates, meet-ups, etc
<brobostigon> yes, :)
<HazRPG> would be nice, since we could set our phones, widgets, whatever we use for keeping track of stuff, to all be in sync :)
<brobostigon> :)
<HazRPG> Would be awesome right?
<HazRPG> I mean, podcast release dates, live dates for podcast, etc could even be put on there, etc :)
<brobostigon> yes,
<HazRPG> since those are things I've started to put in anyways
<brobostigon> HazRPG: we have an ubuntu-cymru one, and a unity-coders one, so,
<HazRPG> we do?
<brobostigon> HazRPG: we as in, some of the other groups i work with,
<HazRPG> I was thinking just a general ubuntu-uk stuff, something we all mainly use - or dates we'd like to know about, etc
<popey> we do
<HazRPG> popey: do we?
<popey> http://loco.ubuntu.com/teams/ubuntu-uk/events
<popey> ical link is there too
<popey> http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/team/ubuntu-uk/ical/
<HazRPG> Ah, that's for meet ups, is there not one for meetings?
<popey> we can add meetings to that too
<HazRPG> popey: yeah I noticed ;)
<HazRPG> Maybe eeven the quiz :)
<HazRPG> when a date gets decided on :)
<popey> yup
<HazRPG> popey: awesome, would be great if ya did :)
<brobostigon> the ical seems to work with google calendar,
<HazRPG> brobostigon: :)
<HazRPG> popey: oh heh, just realised that page is /sort of/ tied in via the LoCo Directory link
<HazRPG> popey: Might be worth having the events link as a tab at the top :)
<HazRPG> Ah, there is a meeting one too
<popey> :)
<HazRPG> ah has hewbass left?
<HazRPG> he did
<HazRPG> can't seem to recreate his problem :(
<brobostigon> the wake usage, on my htc dream, is lower with 3g on, weird,
<HazRPG> brobostigon: that is strange
<brobostigon> 1.5% roughtly.
<brobostigon> by*
<brobostigon> k9 doesnt seem to be picking up emails, so push'ing isnt working.
<brobostigon> something is wrong, me thinks,
<danfish> I had an HTC Dream until sone number 2 dropped it in a glass of water - after that the Dream died.....
<HazRPG> popey: guessing the events category is just blog posts correct?
<brobostigon> :(
<danfish> brobostigon: switch to periodic checking - will save battery life and at the end of the day, do you need to be instantly contactable?
<brobostigon> danfish: my three gadgets, my htc dream, my n800, and my eeepc, :)
<HazRPG> oh wow, just realised the podcast is live!
<brobostigon> danfish: thats a good point, yes.
<brobostigon> danfish: however one of the joys of imap, isnt it,that emails can come through instntaniously.
<danfish> brobostigon: true. I can't remember, but a podcast a bit ago talked about living online 'asynchronously vs synchronously.
<HazRPG> oh wait, no it isn't - that was an old post
<HazRPG> heh
<danfish> can't remeber which podcast tho'
<brobostigon> danfish: you arte right though, i have no urgency to be contabtable, within an 30mins,maybe.
<Ng> andylockran: wat
<jpds> Ng: s/t$/s/
<Ng> andylockran: were you wondering about Terminator on OSX? It is possible. I've never tried the fink method, but I did install it with MacPorts (which means building gtk and gcc and all sorts of things), but overall I'd say the user experience is kinda disappointing on the different OS and even though I don't like it as much, iTerm2 seems better
<Ng> jpds: danke :)
<jpds> Ng: langsam, aber sicher.
<brobostigon> danfish: i will try polling every 30mins,
<andylockran> Ng: just installing it via the fink method at the moment
<andylockran> what's new with you guys?
<ali1234> "Congratulations! Your account is now enabled for uploads of longer than 15 minutes." what?
<ali1234> i thought that was only for youtube partners?
<hamitron> you have stalked youtube for long enough, so it has given in and "wants" you?
<ali1234> i have enough trouble just uploading a couple of minute videos
<hamitron> :)
<ali1234> don't think i could actually have the patience to upload 15 minute long videos
<ali1234> and it looks like my ogv broke it
<ali1234> maybe it will work when its finished
<ali1234> nope
<ali1234> well, so, pitivi default settings don't work on youtube, this is bad
<ali1234> let's try vp8 then
<dogmatic69_> how do i cat a file so it keeps streaming
<dogmatic69_> forgot how i was doing it before
<hamitron> tail
 * dogmatic69_ facepalm
<dogmatic69_> thanks
<ali1234> does anyone know how to encode vp8 video that does not look like a bad impressionist watercolour?
<ali1234> giving dirac a go... quality is decent
<ali1234> ok, youtube doesn't even try to play dirac
<cbx33> right guess I'd better go to sleep
<brobostigon> good night everyone.sleep well.
<AlanBell> Evening all
<AlanBell> I met RMS
<AlanBell> RMS met me
<daftykins> i see
<AlanBell> And I had a drink that contained bananas
<daftykins> heh
<cbx33> sounds like a surreal evening
<caulkz> hmm, would ubuntu give its name to a canned beer product?? lol
<directhex> AlanBell, did you feel enlightened as he stood before you, big magnetic halo glowing?
<daftykins> that's been around for a while as far as i know
<zleap> march 30th document freedom day
<directhex> there's a fairtrade cola under the name ubuntu
<daftykins> as 'ubuntu' is a philosophy :>
<directhex> nothing to do with the linux
<andylockran> yeah
 * daftykins pats directhex 
<daftykins> hope you're well hexy!
<caulkz> Ubuntu beer - 100pc beer 0pc crap lol
<andylockran> AlanBell: was that up in Sheffers?
<AlanBell> In london
<AlanBell> He told us all that Mono is the way of the future
<daftykins> RMS talking about Mono, i'm seeing a musical pattern here
<directhex> mono's old hat. the cool kids are all using quadrophonic these days
<daftykins> in qua...qua...qua... QUADRAPHONIOOOOOOO
<daftykins> as the present day 3D adverts go.
<ali1234> my synthesizer has 8 voice polyphony
<ali1234> unfortunately each one is only 2 bit
<ali1234> so it sounds terrible
<ali1234> unfortunately youtube rejected all the nice codecs
<ali1234> so i'm onto ffmpeg now
<ali1234> hmm... well, that encoded an awful lot faster than the ogv
<daftykins> does that mean it looks like a pencil sketch now? :D
<ali1234> like, 100x faster
<ali1234> does it use vdpau or something? (is that even possible?)
<ali1234> no, it looks significantly better than the vp8 (which came out at 1.9MB) and about the same as the theora (29MB) - and it's 11MB
<ali1234> but the video is basically a still image anyway
<ali1234> aaaaand. it actually worked too
<ali1234> lol youtube recognizes the music even though it's horribly mangled
<daftykins> ali1234: what did you make ffmpeg spit out then?
<ali1234> dunno. mp4?
<ali1234> i'm doing it all through the pitivi UI so it's a bit hard to know what it is really doing
<daftykins> ah
<ali1234> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PbG0bqKzF9o
#ubuntu-uk 2011-03-08
<dutchie> ali1234: i like the leds flashing too quickly to be of any use at all
<ali1234> the leds are part of the audio filter circuit
<ali1234> i could have just used diodes but leds look nicer
<daftykins> i like dutchie's constructive criticism
<mgdm> I learned that on the trumpet a few years ago
<mgdm> that took some doing
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> brave man
<mgdm> and since when did LEDs have to have a purpose? Goodness sake man, where's your sense of geek?
<daftykins> so true
<dutchie> i did say i liked them
<dutchie> it was not all sarcasm
<mgdm> Oh, it looked like massive sarcasm
<daftykins> 0o
<daftykins> as did it to me
<daftykins> http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=GX-239-AS&groupid=701&catid=1914&subcat=1863
<daftykins> i might get this to put in a 3500+ AMD Athlon64 and 1GB RAM based nforce4 shuttle i was given on sunday
<daftykins> shame it only has 1GB RAM, but it could still be a good Ubuntu box
<mgdm> when I'm back from my trip I intend to do some stuff hooking up http://mgdm.net/weblog/libsureelec-a-driver-for-sure-electronics-lcd-displays to some tiny Linux hardware
<mgdm> it might also involve http://www.earf.co.uk/finningleysdr.htm for some *extreme* nerding
<daftykins> i got really close to buying a nixie clock
<mgdm> I thought about that and got the LCDs instead - they're USB so easier to wire up to anything
<mgdm> that screenshot is it hooked up to my laptop and running the test program from the driver
<daftykins> i had an LCD a long time ago
<daftykins> by matrix orbital, if they still exist
<mgdm> these things use a similar command set, apparently
<daftykins> hilariously they had the power lines on the serial cable wired wrongly to start
<mgdm> :D
<daftykins> so when i first plugged it in, it caught fire and burned through the cable
<mgdm> next I want an LED scrolly banner type thing
<mgdm> D:
<daftykins> i messaged them, they apologised and sent a free replacement XD
<mgdm> I'm going to get one and hook it up to the alerting system at work
<mgdm> so every now and again it can scroll "THE SYSTEM IS DOWN" and play the music in the background
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> hope to see what you get up to with the LCD!
<daftykins> anywho for now i must retire to bed
<mgdm> g'night
<andylockran> night
<andylockran> mgdm: how's you?
<mgdm> andylockran: not bad ta, off to Canada tomorrow \o/
 * andylockran needs to stop pressing cmd+q instead of cmd+tab
<andylockran> oooh - how come you're off there?
<mgdm> heh
<mgdm> speaking at confoo.ca
<mgdm> g'night folks
<andylockran> night dude.
<andylockran> Have fun!
<cbx33> right
<cbx33> night time for real now
<ali1234> hmm ok i do not understand this.... same render format, but this time pitivi decided to ruin the audio somehow (as if it wasn't bad enough to start with)
<ali1234> oh... it decided to use aac instead of alac
<ali1234> argh double borders
<ali1234> forgot to change output aspect :(
<ali1234> moar cheezy synth: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73Nf42Usja4
<ali1234> bug 721447
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 721447 in unity (Ubuntu) "Unable to scroll in Applications/Files and Folders Place using mouse wheel" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/721447
<knightdroid> exit
<Myrtti> my IRC is broken
<shauno> naw, they're just all sleeping
<nigelb> Myrtti: no conversation?
<nigelb> I thought my IRC was broken the other day, turns out I was disconnected :|
<AlanBell> morning all
<TheOpenSourcerer> morning
<popey> morning all
<popey> AlanBell: how was RMS?
<popey> also, does anyone know the package name which implements the gnome monitor dialog?
<popey> (I am not on an ubuntu machine right now but need to file a bug)
<knightpad> morning
<popey> lo
<knightpad> hey popey   how are ya today
<popey> tickety boo
<nigelb> popey: gnome-control-center
<popey> ta
<nigelb> popey: the one where resolution is set etc right?
<popey> yes
<popey> trying to encourage someone on the ubuntu-users list to file a bug
<popey> they all whinge and moan about ubuntu but do _nothing_ to try to fix stuff
<nigelb> yup, right package :)
<knightpad> looking at "motion"  might be a good idea to try it out sometime
<AlanBell> popey: RMS was great
 * popey says "Beefy Miracle"
<popey> http://spevack.livejournal.com/111974.html
<jpds> popey: The Relish down the road doesn't do sausages.
<TheOpenSourcerer> It's Pancacke day today :-)
<popey> I made some at midnight and put them in the fridge for the kids this morning :)
<exobuzz> popey, in your e04e01 podcast, the discussion about open software not being as popular as proprietory software - I dont think anyone mentioned for example (web) server software / where open source leads the pack. also android on mobiles. and developer tools of course
<AlanBell> popey: why would they go for beefy miracle, when they have codpiece on the list!
<exobuzz> popey: plus things like "ffmpeg" which was mentioned in your news. this library is used in many software products for example. and open source leads with htpc stuff also
<exobuzz> popey, this isnt directed to you personally, just at the episode . and im too lazy to email the show :)
<exobuzz> (and apps like thunderbird, filezilla, vlc, notepad++, 7-zip,  blender). all very popular .. ok im finished now. but lots of this stuff wasnt mentioned :)
<popey> 5heheh
<popey> exobuzz: I'll add your feedback to the show notes, it's much appreciated
<popey> arguably ffmpeg _is_ reimplementing the work others have done
<exobuzz> yeh at least partially
<exobuzz> another example where open source leads is things like wordpress i guess.
<popey> web apps, cms's yeah, good point
<popey> all of those apps except blender, are dupes of proprietary apps
<exobuzz> 7-zip isnt..
<popey> winzip
<exobuzz> because winzip is a dupe itself
<exobuzz> winzip took free open code
<AlanBell> pkzip
<popey> of pkzip
<popey> which is of pkarc
<popey> which is of arc
<popey> i know my compression history :)
<exobuzz> :
<exobuzz> :)
<MartijnVdS> The kernel does xz now (for ramdisk, squashfs, etc.)
<exobuzz> http://www.exotica.org.uk/wiki/Crunchers
<exobuzz> old amiga packers
<exobuzz> with the "dupes of proprietory" argument - I guess you can trace almost every piece of software to some ancestor or another, whether free or proprietory - so I think it's still relevant relating to what is popular now, even if you can trace the history back to something non-free
<hoover> good mornin
<DJones> Morning
<exobuzz> speaking of compression, btrfs recently got lzo compression as well as gzip that it had before - which is nice, since lzo is a lot faster
<jonsaint> hi all. i just done an update, can anyone tell me what avali ipv4ll is and what it does??
<MartijnVdS> Avahi
<jonsaint> yeah thats the one
<exobuzz> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avahi_%28software%29
<MartijnVdS> it gives your machine an IP (from the169.254.0.0/16 range) if no DHCP server (or other means of getting an IP) is available
<exobuzz> second paragraph
 * exobuzz had a small fight with avahi/ipv6 and distcc earlier
<MartijnVdS> distcc does avahi now?
<exobuzz> had to switch off avahi ipv6 support and it worked then
<exobuzz> yeh
<MartijnVdS> get proper working ipv6 then :P
<exobuzz> its not that - its a bug in the software
<exobuzz> http://code.google.com/p/distcc/issues/detail?id=42
<MartijnVdS> it's nice how the id is 42 8-)
<exobuzz> heh
<jonsaint> is it possible to change an ip addy on ubuntu machines?
<exobuzz> its fixed in their repository. so i could build a new one
<MartijnVdS> jonsaint: if you really want to, sure.. but most of the time you want the automatic (DHCP) address your router gives you
<MartijnVdS> jonsaint: System -> Preferences -> Network connections
<jonsaint> MartijnVdS, ah ok. wasnt too sure how haed it would be thats all. i know on those microsoft rubbish machines its a long winded process!
<jonsaint> what happens wven ipv4 is full, does everyone go over to v6?
<popey> nah, not immediately
<MartijnVdS> First we go dual-stack
<popey> ISPs use NAT
<MartijnVdS> http://test-ipv6.com/ :)
<jonsaint> 10/10 for v4, 0/10 for v6 lol
 * MartijnVdS gets 10/10 on both :)
<exobuzz> my isp doesnt do ipv6 yet - but i guess i could tunnel it
<MartijnVdS> My ISP does.. natively
<jonsaint> so will it be an automatic thing then when v6 is avaliable to someone like me then?
<MartijnVdS> it should be.. you might have to install a new modem/router or upgrade firmware on the current one
<jonsaint> cant see virgin doing that!
<MartijnVdS> jonsaint: eventually, they'll have to (when new web sites can't get IPv4 addresses anymore, they'll only be available over IPv6)
<shauno> easy enough.  NAT then, and sell a new box to anyone who complains :)
<MartijnVdS> shauno: until competitors market it as a feature "We have IPv6 support: ALL of the internet"
<jonsaint> yeah, they are quite good at ripping people off. they sent me a letter last week saying i got a free speed upgrade! oh and the small print says plus a Â£30 connection fee! how can they charge a conection fee if im already connected??
<MartijnVdS> jonsaint: the other end had to be connected as well!
<exobuzz> jonsaint, http://www.unitethecows.com/content/359-virgin-media-uk-begins-throttling-p2p-traffic.html :)
<exobuzz> some more news for you
<popey> ooo
<shauno> that was months ago wasn't it?
<popey> oh, already done
<popey> seems fair enough :)
<shauno> had some fun fallout on WoW because V were incorrectly identifying the traffic as p2p
<shauno> turns out gamers don't like being throttled ;)
<popey> maybe they shouldn't be torrenting their games then :)
<exobuzz> heh
<shauno> the vendor's own in-game updater is torrent-based
<exobuzz> i just want decent upstream.
<exobuzz> i would sacrifice more of my downstream for faster uploading
<popey> i have 2Mb/s upstream
<popey> got upgraded recently
<exobuzz> im about the same
<exobuzz> id rather 10/10 than 20/2.2
<jonsaint> chat later folks. need to get stuff done.
<shauno> I'd agree with that .. pulling a large folder of pdf's from home atm :(
<popey> o/
<popey> I'd rather 50/50 :)
<popey> but I dont want to pay for that :)
<MooDoo> hello
<exobuzz> popey, well. if your going in that direction, maybe 100/100? :)
<exobuzz> fujll duplex of course
<exobuzz> last month there was ~170gb leeched from my public ftp at home
<exobuzz> probably my upstream doesnt feel fast enough because its saturated all the time heh
<popey> :)
<gord> my upstream is saturated all the time, but i think its because ubuntu one is throwing a wobbler
<daubers> Morning
<kazade> o/
<MooDoo> morning
<mungojerry> morning
<caulkz> Good Morning Britain :D
<caulkz> how does one get identd working in ubuntu maverick?
<caulkz> just tick a box in mIRC but ubuntu not soo easy lol
<mungojerry> can't win..people complain about spam but they don't want a single ham ever to get misclassified :(
<caulkz> some1's using ipv6 on here, hello @aaronr :)
<aaronr> hi caulkz :)
<caulkz> aaronr: u in uk by chance?
<aaronr> i am
<caulkz> isp?
<aaronr> i'm with virgin media, though they don't provide ipv6 natively.
<aaronr> i'm using a aiccu tunnel from sixxs
<caulkz> ok
<caulkz> exspensive?
<aaronr> the tunnel's free
<aaronr> and there's docs on the ubuntu wiki on how to set it up: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IPv6#Get connected with SixXS
<aaronr> i pretty much just followed that
<aaronr> now my entire home network has ipv6 within the /48 subnet sixxs gave me
<caulkz> nice
<aaronr> v6 traffic from all the other hosts just gets routed through the pc running the tunnel rather than my ipv4 router
<caulkz> i heard some tunnels r paid for :/
<aaronr> yeah well the people running them have to cover all the bandwidth you decide to use over ipv6, so it seems that only large organisations with tons of spare bandwidth can really consider it
<aaronr> (consider doing free tunnels, i mean)
<shauno> found out my router supports he.net tunnels.  that made life easy :)
<aaronr> wow that's quite nice. factory firmware, or something like dd-wrt?
<shauno> factory
<shauno> downside is it's an apple router, so impossible to manage in any sensible way.  but it worked
<caulkz> does my dgn2200 support ipv6?
<Tommeh> Doubtful
<cbx33> mornin all
<czajkowski> Aloha
<Tommeh> caulkz: I did take a look - nothing in the spec pages for IPv6 on that model and there are no firmware releases since the initial release
<caulkz> i know some netgear routers have a hidden page to enable ipv6 lool
<BigRedS> I gather than most things that attempt to support ip6 do so in such a buggy fashion that you'll turn it off again almost immediately
<rickogden> morning all
<caulkz> yep true
<caulkz> dgn2200 is a recent addition to their range and supposed to replace the dg834g as its EOL!
<caulkz> not a bad router tbh
<Tommeh> caulkz: http://wiki.aaisp.org.uk/index.php/Comtrend
<Tommeh> ^ A&A are working to get *non-buggy* IPv6-capable ADSL2+ modems going.
<caulkz> just hoping that the dgn2200 support ipv6 with a future fw update...
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<cbx33> mornin bigcalm
<Tommeh> caulkz: you might be waiting a while :)
<Tommeh> I'd stop asking here and go pester Netgear, otherwise they may never think about it.
<caulkz> ok :)
<bigcalm> Network oddness: Nexus One is connected at 72Mbps while my dell laptop (with N) is connected at 54Mbps
<bigcalm> Laptop is running ubuntu of course
<DJones> Maybe a better signal in the spot where the N1 is sitting
<bigcalm> DJones: they are sat next to each other and 2 feet from the router :)
<gord> 54mbps means you are not using N wireless iirc
<bigcalm> 802.11N is supported in linux, right?
<gord> prolly a driver thing, i could never get my n wifi adapter to work on ubuntu
<bigcalm> gord: indeed, it's using g
<bigcalm> Ah
<bigcalm> Ho hum
<bigcalm> Weeeeeeeeeeee
<bigcalm> Just found the Pi sound track on Spotify
<caulkz> anyone here using zen as a isp?
<bigcalm> So I no longer care about network problems
 * bigcalm moshes
<Baikonur> i'm using zen as a state of mind
<rickogden> hi all, does anyone have any good ideas about teaching web development on an Ubuntu LTSP set up? I'm trying to work out if there's any way of users having isolated web servers which can have things like xdebug running.
<bigcalm> rickogden: sudoex?
<soneill> bigcalm: deftones make me code faster, I swear to god
<rickogden> bigcalm: what's that?
<bigcalm> Oh, no, ignore me :)
<bigcalm> Sorry :)
<bigcalm> If you want indervidual web servers, I would suggest VMs
<rickogden> bigcalm: yeah, I don't have enough processing power for individual VMs
<rickogden> I was wondering if there was something that could be done on the thin client
<BigRedS> It'd stop being thin, then, surel?
<BigRedS> y
<rickogden> BigRedS: yeah, it would start becoming a fat client (which I'm already looking into anyway)
<rickogden> the "thin clients" are core2quads with 4gb of ram... so they can cope with being less "thin" :)
<BigRedS> suexec might do what you're after, though. Each person's as isolated as they would be doing any other sort of dev
<rickogden> but what I do want to avoid is having Ubuntu directly on the Machines as it's an administrative nightmare
<BigRedS> what're you having them develop in?
<screen-x> rickogden: have you looked at puppet?
<rickogden> BigRedS: yeah, it wouldn't stop people from connecting to each other's servers though would it?
<BigRedS> I *think* there's a mod_php thingy that does suexed without you having to do fcgi, but I'm not sure
<rickogden> screen-x: I haven't
<BigRedS> rickogden: er, you could conceivably do that with apache access restrictions
<rickogden> BigRedS: Netbeans with PHP and xdebug
<BigRedS> why do you want to stop them viewing each others' sites?
<rickogden> it's more of the xdebug issue
<cbx33> bigcalm, the film pi?
<bigcalm> cbx33: yes
<bigcalm> http://open.spotify.com/album/5C0sEGbStaD8ZWQzBrNxJ3
<cbx33> i love that film
<rickogden> fcgi is something I've been looking into, and maybe fcgi with userdir is the best way
<BigRedS> You could http auth everyone's sites, there's a module for pam-based http auth
<BigRedS> and give each of them a suexeced vhost
<rickogden> BigRedS: yeah true, doesn't prevent xdebug though still
<rickogden> if I use suexec, will that work on file permissions of 700?
<BigRedS> yeah
<BigRedS> you can have nobody else able to read the files
<BigRedS> suexec will bork if any other user can write to them
<rickogden> oh excellent, I thought it might need to be group readable
<bigcalm> That's what I meant to suggest before, misspelling :(
<JamesTait> Ah, good morning, all! :D
<AlanBell> danfish: going to this? http://www.smarthealthcarelive.com/
<bigcalm> AlanBell: did you see I sorted my wordpress image resizing query?
<AlanBell> nice one bigcalm
<bigcalm> http://www.myrant.net/2011/03/07/mimicking-wordpress-coms-image-resize-uris/
<AlanBell> bigcalm: get yourself on planet.ubuntu-uk.org
<bigcalm> AlanBell: I don't rant exclusively about computer things
<AlanBell> neither does anyone else
<bigcalm> Heh
<czajkowski> AlanBell: just the person!
<shauno> you can always use a per-category feed if you don't want your russian doll collection on Planet ;)
<bigcalm> Aha, cool
 * bigcalm pokes Launchpad login for being slow and then returning a 500 error :)
<bigcalm> Silly computers
<Daviey> heretic
<bigcalm> Starting to think that life is far too short while waiting for this to work
<bigcalm> Hi Daviey :) Not seen you active for a while
<Daviey> bigcalm, Oh i've been around
<Daviey> watching you.
 * czajkowski tickles Daviey 
<Daviey> :)
<bigcalm> Lurker
<Daviey> bigcalm, no, just watching you - that is called stalking :)
<bigcalm> Haha
 * Daviey giggles like a little girl.
<Laney> pancakes plz
<Myrtti> shrove buns here
<Myrtti> with whipped cream
<bigcalm> AlanBell: added
<bigcalm> With CM7RC2 comes 2.3.3. Happy lad I be
<brobostigon> morning everyone.
<Tommeh> bigcalm: If only SGS support came without the bugs :0
<Tommeh> * :)
<bigcalm> Tommeh: I'm very happy with my N1 :)
<Tommeh> Yeah, almost wish I didn't have a branded phone now
<Tommeh> It's not bad though :)
<Tommeh> And at least samsung are working on a 2.3 release
<bigcalm> An expensive toy, but still glad I got it
<brobostigon> weird, xorg just spontaniously reset/restarted on me.:(
<directhex> i wonder if CM7 will appear for hero
<directhex> i eagerly await the end of my contract
<hamitron> brobostigon: just xorg?
<brobostigon> hamitron: looked lke it,
<hamitron> :/
<brobostigon> hamitron: it dumped me back to cli, and started back with gdm.
<hamitron> just like pressing ctrl+alt+backspace? :/
<popey> bigcalm: N1?
<brobostigon> yes-
<bigcalm> popey: Nexus One
<popey> ah yes, you said that earlier
<bigcalm> :)
<popey> sorry, didnt know what phone you had
<popey> happy days :)
<bigcalm> Very
 * hamitron is waiting for Nexus One to drop in price
 * brobostigon also.
<hamitron> Â£30-50 maybe
<bigcalm> I know that Google aren't selling them any more. Don't know if HTC are even producing it still
<brobostigon> hamitron: Â£100 mark, and i might be able to afford it, with some saving.
<hamitron> I'll be looking at 2nd hand
<bigcalm> ebay?
<hamitron> probably
<brobostigon> hamitron: that is, unlocked and sim free.
<hamitron> yes
<hamitron> when it is old and not many want one
<hamitron> ;)
<brobostigon> yes, :)
<bigcalm> That'll be the only way you get it
<hamitron> if it doesn't drop, will just get one of them creative android media players
<hamitron> Â£160 brand new with gps
<brobostigon> i think i will be having my htc dream for a while to come.
<gord> woo finally getting around to booking uds tickets, only gonna go for a few days
 * brobostigon also wants a CM7 buildfor his htc dream,
<brobostigon> but i dont have enough hdd space, to do a build.
<bigcalm> o.O
<hamitron> CM7?
<bigcalm> CyanogenMod 7
<hamitron> never heard of it ;/
 * BigRedS wants any CM for his Galaxy
<bigcalm> http://www.cyanogenmod.com/
<BigRedS> just as I thought 6.1 might not be too unstable, everything switches to 7
<bigcalm> 6.1.1 is stable, CM7 is still quite buggy
<hamitron> upgrades so often :/
<davmor2> morning all
<bigcalm> This is a good thing :)
<BigRedS> ah, so 6.1 is still getting some attention?
<bigcalm> BigRedS: no
 * hamitron hates upgrades
<BigRedS> Oh
<bigcalm> As far as I can tell, 6.1.1 is the last release
 * davmor2 prods czajkowski for an appraisal of RMS last night
<X3N> just added you blog bigcalm to the planetplanet
<bigcalm> X3N: thank you :)
<X3N> ping JamesTait - your server seems to be refusing connection for the face you supplied
<bigcalm> X3N: when will it update next?
<X3N> it's generated every hour
<X3N> on the hour
 * bigcalm makes a note
<bigcalm> Humm, wonder if I should have had breakfast for a change. Having been up and coding since 7.30am is more than my body is used to
<mungojerry> anyone know of a twitter client that allows you to filter your own timeline? i want to disable all RT messages
<bigcalm> I think that kazade is currently writing one. Suggest it to him as a feature request
<mungojerry> bigcalm: i already did :P
<bigcalm> Ah
<bigcalm> :)
<kazade> I'm working on it! :)
<mungojerry> most of the people i follow tend to RT people that i already follow, hence message spam
<bigcalm> Oh
<czajkowski> davmor2: meh
<bigcalm> Depending upon how the retweet is performed, tweet deck (on my phone) doesn't show retweeted tweets if you follow the original person
<mungojerry> that's the idea..even better :)
<davmor2> czajkowski: that good hey
<davmor2> czajkowski: did he anounciate his vowels correctly?
<bigcalm> So I guess "tweet deck" as an answer to your question :)
<mungojerry> davmor2: enunciate :P
<mungojerry> bigcalm: thanks, does it need adobe air?
<bigcalm> mungojerry: not on Android, where I use it :)
<davmor2> mungojerry: I'm dyslexic and spellcheck gave me nothing close so :P
 * kazade thinks his client already filters retweets of people he follows...
<mungojerry> kazade: got a name for it ?
<Gary> I want pancakes!
<kazade> I pinched a name from popey :)
<mungojerry> bigcalm: thats useful...goes to android market
<brobostigon> i have a feeling gwibber also does that.
<kazade> "Tessuto"
<mungojerry> kazade: apple lover is japanese?
<shauno> had pancakes at midnight (any excuse works), but she made them american-style :(
<mungojerry> s/is/in
<kazade> mungojerry, it's Italian
<czajkowski> Gary: http://twitpic.com/47f4gb
<mungojerry> kazade: tissue? woven?
<kazade> it's supposed to mean "web" or "woven" ... but I notice that Google translate is saying "tissue"
 * bigcalm won't get pancakes until tomorrow, ho hum
<Gary> czajkowski: meh :'(
<BigRedS> Quick straw poll: SSH tunnels, elegant or hackish?
<kirrus> (context, chucking MySQL traffic down one to make server migration easier)
<shauno> personally, ambivalent; ranging from perfectly sane as a stop-gap, not rather awkward for a long-term solution
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Iain Cuthbertson] Mimicking wordpress.coms image resize URIs - http://www.myrant.net/2011/03/07/mimicking-wordpress-coms-image-resize-uris/
<daubers> leftovers + rice = a good lunch
<popey> YES!
<popey> RICE + * = Good Lunch!
* popey changed the topic of #ubuntu-uk to: Welcome to #ubuntu-uk! http://ubuntu-uk.org | This channel is publicly archived: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Mailing List:  http://tinyurl.com/uukml | Support Guidelines -  http://tinyurl.com/uuksupport | Meeting Thursday March 17th 21:00 GMT in #ubuntu-uk-meeting  http://tinyurl.com/uukmeet | Quiz Night poll: http://doodle.com/eucwzx2qdiiiqs5p Gord fixed Bug 721447 \o/ | Rice!
<tugrik> :)
<davmor2> czajkowski: GIT!
<czajkowski> BRAT!
<AlanBell> BZR!
<davmor2> czajkowski: I know but showing pictures of pancakes this early in the day is just evil
<popey> davmor2: I cooked some at midnight and put it in the fridge for the kids this morning :)
<davmor2> AlanBell: Command BZR! not found did you mean bzr !
<davmor2> popey: your just too organised and should be poked fun at all day osd boy ;)
<mungojerry> fresh rice i hope...not reheated :P
<popey> do you mean OCD?
<daubers> Someone needs to write a git clone called brat now
<popey> no, i left for work at 06:30, before the kids got up :(
<popey> but promised them pancakes so had to deliver
<popey> right, lunchtime!
 * popey wanders down to the canteen to get take away foodstuff
<davmor2> popey: No I want you on screen displays helping tidy up the computer :D
<czajkowski> popey: awwww nice dad
<popey> Yes! I am! :D
<popey> I even slept in the spare room so as not to wake everyone at 6AM
<popey> (thats my excuse and I'm sticking to it)
<popey> tum te tum te tum!
<davmor2> popey: admit it you were up all night playing minecraft
 * MooDoo slept with my son last night, he was rather restless....:(
<czajkowski> popey: playing with trains or minecraft
<popey> :)
 * popey can haz salmon, potatoes and carrots
 * AlanBell was a bit late home and nearly ended up in with the chickens
<czajkowski> lol
<czajkowski> but that was a yummy burger last night
<czajkowski> where were we do you know
<davmor2> czajkowski: Burger king
<davmor2> czajkowski: Home Made Burgers do the bestest burgers in the UK
<czajkowski> AlanBell: ?
<davmor2> popey: on a pancake that's just wrong
<popey> heh
<popey> they had pancakesin the canteen
<davmor2> popey: wim avin pancakes for tea lots of them nom nom nom nom nom nom nom nom nom............
 * brobostigon cant have, due to his dairy and egg allergies. :(
<Pendulum> brobostigon: can you have vegan pancakes?
<brobostigon> Pendulum: as long as no egg nor any milk or any kind,
<brobostigon> of*
<Pendulum> can you do soy milk?
<brobostigon> Pendulum: yes.
<Pendulum> so use soymilk instead of milk and either leave out eggs or substitute something like applesauce as a binder or use vegan egg replacer? (I dunno if they have the last thing in the UK, but we've got it on this side of the pond)
<popey> http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100217071924AAaz64i
<popey> "Just put your morals aside for a day"
<popey> "Best answer" :)
<brobostigon> Pendulum: apple, umm, not really like that idea. vegen egg replacer, not seen it in ages.
<Pendulum> popey: allergic isn't the same as morals
<popey> i know
<popey> i was pointing out the humour
<popey> never mind
<MartijnVdS> I'm allergic to morals.
<popey> That's funny, I'm allergic to Mez
<Pendulum> brobostigon: google is also finding me some recipes that don't have egg or anything to take the place of egg
<Pendulum> brobostigon: my ex was allergic to eggs, milk, and several other foods so I'm rather well versed in adapting things to food allergies ;-)
<brobostigon> Pendulum: good idea, i look every year, and dont find a viable way,
<brobostigon> Pendulum: :)
<Pendulum> brobostigon: http://www.food.com/recipe/5-minute-vegan-pancakes-132263
<brobostigon> Pendulum: thats dead simplerecipe really, :)
<Pendulum> food.com seems to have quite a few vegan pankcake recipes :)
<brobostigon> thank you.
<Pendulum> and, yeah, they should be pretty simple
<Pendulum> you're welcome :)
<brobostigon> :)
<Pendulum> I am now very tempted to go make pancakes for breakfast even though Pancake Day doesn't really exist over here
<brobostigon> :)
<Pendulum> or, rather, is really only celebrated by a small portion of the population (and I am not from that group)
<gord> what?!
<gord> its pancake day?
<gord> argh i forgot
<AlanBell> czajkowski: it was yummy, somewhere near covent garden I think
<brobostigon> gord: i think its a standerd holidayevent in google calendar.
<popey> quick! 110g flour, 2 eggs, 200ml milk, 75ml water, salt, oil, pan, lemon, sugar... STAT!
<AlanBell> czajkowski: http://www.restaurant-guide.com/maxwells-restaurant-covent-garden.htm
<popey> it is in the "UK Holidays" Google Calendar yes
<popey> even though it's technically not a holiday :)
<shauno> it's not?!
<popey> define holiday?
 * daubers works in mugs for pancakes
<DJones> It was traditionally a 1/2 day holiday
<daubers> 2 or 3 eggs, 1 mug flour, 1 mug milk, pinch of salt and fry
<shauno> I tend to work all holidays (bar new years', I refuse).  so I have a very lose idea of holidays :)
 * popey works in "search the internet for a recipe" for pancakes
<popey> there is a guy here who works _every_day
<popey> weekdays, weekends, holidays
<popey> his family live in germany and he lives here
<popey> I think he takes about 1 week off a year
 * AlanBell thinks someone should make circle of friends pancakes somehow and put the recipe and photo on http://ubuntu-uk.org/category/recipes/
<mungojerry> popey: is he the CEO? otherwise what's the point of working every day
<popey> he is a contractor
<popey> so gets revenue for every day he works
<czajkowski> wow
<czajkowski> lotta revenue
<mungojerry> until he dies at 50 from overwork
<czajkowski> surely tax must kick in at some point
<popey> he's over 50
<popey> well, he pays tax of course (I assume)
<mungojerry> popey: nah he's really 31, he just look s50 ;p
<popey> :)
 * mungojerry used to often work 6.40am -> 6pm
<mungojerry> plus commute on top
 * daubers had a weekend off last weekend \o/
<daubers> First one in a month and a bit :(
<mungojerry> nearly did me in..now i do a 9-5 and take all my olhidays
<daubers> Silly tight timescale contracts
<mungojerry> life is worth more than money
<hoover> Reminds me of the old "consultant at St. Peter's Gate" joke
<bigcalm> Do tell us more :)
<bigcalm> Humm, the uupc face image needs fixing on planet
<shauno> I do 6-6 on a regular basis.  wouldn't change it if they let me
<shauno> means I average 3.3 shifts a week.  it's those nutters working 5 days I don't understand :p
<MooDoo> shauno: 7 days for me next week :)
<shauno> see, that's crazy :)
<MooDoo> working this weekend, then monday to friday
<hoover> hey biggie
<shauno> if I did 7 days, I'd have to take nearly 2 weeks off to average my rotation
<bigcalm> Afternoon hoovie :)
<hoover> anyway, consultant says: "Why did I have to die, I'm only 35!!!"
<hoover> St. Peter replies: "The time you've been charging your clients makes you 85..." ;-)
<bigcalm> Heh
<popey> bigcalm: fixed, thanks
<bigcalm> popey: :)
<mgdm> Morning
<bigcalm> Hiya mgdm :)
<shauno> reading old docs is giggle-worthy.  this paper claims there's over 600 unix installs, with 'thousands' of users
<bigcalm> How old is old?
<shauno> older than me :)
<shauno> '74 apparently
 * mgdm waves from Heathrow
<Mez> vim ~/foo.pl/lastlog Mez
<Mez> popey... ???
<hoover> mgdm: Free wireless? ;-)
<mgdm> hoover: tethered Android
<Daviey> mgdm, Free wifi in the lounge :)
<gord> i will *never* learn that vim isn't included on the cd
<X3N> you're just in denial gord ;)
<mungojerry> spotify now have 1 million paying subscribers
<gord> *cough* good article *cough* http://aseigo.blogspot.com/2011/03/collaborations-demise.html
<bigcalm> tl;dr
<bigcalm> My goodness, these are indeed spicy
<mungojerry> if only KDE was as good as it sounds on paper
<bigcalm> Maybe Enlightenment should be given a go
<bigcalm> E17 still hasn't been released, heh
<gord> whenever anyone talks about E17 my mind just goes to east 17...
<Baikonur> what's E17
<directhex> enlightenment
<BigRedS> they were a boy band
<screen-x> BigRedS: haha
 * screen-x pretends not to know who east 17 were. 
<Baikonur> i don't need to pretend
<bigcalm> That's the problem with E17 name. I only think of the boy band and Americans have no idea
<Baikonur> i'm not american :(
<screen-x> E17 would be a good replacement for rick astley
 * brobostigon shakes fist at gpu lockup, bug.
<bigcalm> Trust me to ignore Twitter all day long
<bigcalm> Just seen the last 3 tweets from big_ben_clock
 * bigcalm giggles
<brobostigon> lol
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: http://twitter.com/#!/Klok_Domtoren http://twitter.com/#!/coucou_suisse
<screen-x> MartijnVdS: I didnt know there were so many :)
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: boring and cute respecively
<bigcalm> And in the wrong timezone ;)
<Baikonur> how does one link to a specific tweet
<bigcalm> Click on the time of the tweet
<Baikonur> ooh, thanks
<bigcalm> Welcome
<bigcalm> Time for a fondant fancy
<popey> Hello sailor!
<bigcalm> Hello Kitty :)
<kaushal> Hi
<kaushal> is there a debug window while installing Ubuntu OS ?
<X3N> kaushal: it logs to something like /var/log/installer
<kaushal> yeah
<kaushal> while installing ?
<X3N> yeah
<X3N> e.g. tail -f /var/log/installer
<kaushal> so do CTRL-ALT-F1 and then  tail -f /var/log/installer ?
<X3N> yeah, or if you using the live mode you could open a terminal
<brobostigon> arghhh :(
 * brobostigon tries out a newer gingerbread buildfor his htc dream, and keepshis  ingers crossed.
<bigcalm> Unplugged laptop, it reports that there is 7:50 of battery time remaining. Close to 8 hours or 8 minutes - neither are likely
<bigcalm> Now saying 2:35, bit better
<bigcalm> Is there a doctor in the house?
 * brobostigon wonders if danfish is around. for bigcalm 
<bigcalm> Sharp pains in the ring and little fingers on my right hand. Had this for a few hours yesterday as well
<bigcalm> Trapped nerve?
<DJones> RSI ? Keyboard & mouse releated
<bigcalm> I have RSI from computer use any way :)
<DJones> bigcalm: You should be pinging danfish
<bigcalm> This is new though
<bigcalm> danfish: ping
<Venko> That's what I would have guessed too but I'm most definitely no doctor
<DJones> I'm nearer to a vet than a doctor
<X3N> bigcalm: system > preferences > keyboard > typing break ;)
<DJones> Although that could be a good thing, from memory, don't vets have to be better qualified than a doctor
<bigcalm> X3N: Not very productive that ;)
<bigcalm> DJones: now I know where to go if I need worming ;)
<X3N> bigcalm: yeah, well, bit late now
<bigcalm> X3N: I mean taking breaks isn't productive
<DJones> bigcalm: Somebody will have to remind me which end to put the worming tablets into
<bigcalm> X3N: I realise I don't take enough breaks
<bigcalm> I'm the oposite from my school me
<danfish> bigcalm: pongy
<bigcalm> danfish: cure me!
<bigcalm> Heh
<bigcalm> Sharp pains in the ring and little fingers on my right hand. Had this for a few hours yesterday as well
<danfish> ulnar nerve compression
<kazade> bigcalm, hit the fingers on your left hand with a hammer
<kazade> will totally take your mind off it
<kazade> :)
<danfish> heh
<bigcalm> danfish: so could be refered pain from my shoulders?
<mungojerry> my workplace has been a noisy building site for 2 years now...starting to lose my mind :(
<danfish> eitehr at the elbow, wrist or shoulder
<danfish> only cure - 6 weeks paid holiday to the Seychelles ;)_
<bigcalm> Hehe, yaya
<bigcalm> -a
<kazade> I've found that since taking up Karate, I've had far less neck/shoulder/back pain - that use to relay to my hands
<DJones> bigcalm: If you'd said it'd been your left ring finger, I'd have said it might be an allergic reaction to wearing a wedding ring
<bigcalm> DJones: I'm only engaged so far ;)
<DJones> bigcalm: Yeah, but you have to try the rings on before you buy :)
<bigcalm> If it meant wearing a ring, I'd be up for that. But only Hayley got one
<kazade> sexism ;)
<bigcalm> DJones: few more years to go I think. We're saving for a mortgage deposit atm
<mungojerry> i notice that a lot of men from the last generation don't wear wedding rings
<bigcalm> I intend to wear a wedding ring
<bigcalm> My dad doesn't wear one though (neither does my mum for that matter).
<shauno> I intended to .. took me 2 months to lose it tho :/
<DJones> bigcalm: I said the same thing & my wife bought me a ring with "With my two hands I give you my heart and crown it with my love" engraved on it
<bigcalm> Awwww
<bigcalm> DJones: super soppy and wonderful
<shauno> DJones: let me guess .. it's kept somewhere safe so it doesn't get scratched up ;)
<mungojerry> mines only been off for a few seconds in 5yrs so far
<DJones> shauno: Its definately safe, on the opposite ring finger to my wedding ring :)
<shauno> I've just never seemed to be able to wear rings.  awkward shaped fingers
<bigcalm> I've never even tried one
<HazRPG> hi all
<bigcalm> Hi HazRPG
 * brobostigon reckons he has found a decent gingerbread build for his htc dream.
<mungojerry> bigcalm: tried tweetdeck on my android, like it :)
<bigcalm> mungojerry: it's my fave so far
<mungojerry> shame about the widget but hey
<HazRPG> bigcalm: hey :)
<HazRPG> brobostigon: winner :)
<bigcalm> popey: wtf?
<mungojerry> i think he's suggesting that real men eat digestives with tarmac and dirt spread on them, rather than fondant fancies
 * mungojerry munches on another bourbon biccie
<popey> bigcalm: hmm?
<bigcalm> mungojerry: no, I was being obtuse and mixing twitter with irc again ;)
<mungojerry> oh lol :P
<bigcalm> popey: the 1st user in your tweet doesn't exist
<mungojerry> popey: don't feed the trolls :)
<brobostigon> HazRPG: we will see, maybe, :)
<popey> bigcalm: its identica
<popey> mungojerry: :)
<bigcalm> Bah, nobody uses that ;)
 * brobostigon installs setcpu back.
<mungojerry> entering a trolling match with someone who makes anti-* sites is getting into an argument that isn't worth winning
<mungojerry> think i'm going to start reading h-online instead of slashdot et al
<shauno> ouch.  tab completion bites back.  grep <file term | sed 's/patt/ern/' >SAMEFILEARGHHHH.
<mungojerry> anyone finding unity particularly crashy today?
<gord> mungojerry, what kind of crash?
<gord> mungojerry, when did you update?
<popey> not used it today
<mungojerry> gord: earlier today 10am ish,...and just now
<mungojerry> same bug..will report
<mungojerry> gord: if unity+compiz crashes and doesn't offer to upload crash report..what's the best way to trigger that
<gord> mungojerry, you should get apport, asking you, i'm not sure otherwise. but i was interested in what you were doing at the time :)
<mungojerry> rearranging icons on the launcher - it's reproducible
<mungojerry> there's an incomplete bug report - i had the full logs but didn't submit due to there being an existing bug
<mungojerry> which i now realise is incomplete
<mungojerry> bug 731096
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 731096 in unity "compiz crashed with SIGSEGV in LauncherIcon::OpenQuicklist()" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/731096
<cbx33> popey, you use fedora a lot now?
<popey> nope
<popey> i haven't used it for years
<cbx33> hahah
<cbx33> aww you were being nice :
<popey> yup
<cbx33> i thought you told me you didn't do that :p
<popey> also, they have some nice stuff that I'd like to see them test before we get it :D
<cbx33> or maybe that was just to me
<popey> o_O
<cbx33> hahahahah
<popey> you're implying I'm not nice?
<cbx33> j/k
<popey> ah
<cbx33> no
<davmor2> cbx33: Don't go confusing popey with MooDoo
<cbx33> i always said you were nice
<cbx33> you "corrected me"
<cbx33> hehehe :p
<popey> hah
<cbx33> i dunno what thats about :p
<cbx33> how goes it anyway good sir?
<popey> tickety boo
<cbx33> sweet
<cbx33> the books moving along well :)
<gord> its been a while since i tried fedora, maybe i should get an iso sometime. i kinda got bored with trying distros a long time ago
<gord> everywhere else you are basically just using gnome/kde with different package managers
<gord> </oversimplification>
<cbx33> yup
<cbx33> and for me apt beats almost everything out there
<cbx33> esp for speed
<AlanBell> any more peeps left to fill in http://doodle.com/eucwzx2qdiiiqs5p ?
<davmor2> AlanBell: of course they are but it's like being on the school bus when the teacher says if your not here put your hand up ;)
<gord> AlanBell, do a uds quiz night!
 * AlanBell isn't going to UDS :(
<gord> AlanBell, oh :( i thought i saw you on the sign up thing
<popey> could do a "UDS vs Rest Of The World"
<AlanBell> gord: remote participation list perhaps
<AlanBell> oh and I was testing the signup thing for jcastro and submitted a sponsorship application or two
<AlanBell> special dietary requirements "dinosaur meat only"
<gord> do uds people know they are going yet? its always pretty late for community
<popey> no
<popey> its not closed yet
<popey> 27th March
<gord> ah
<gord> only going for a few days this year anyway
<bigcalm> Census day :)
<popey> census website breakdown day!
<bigcalm> Hehe
 * dutchie already done census
<bigcalm> I'll be doing it on paper
<bigcalm> dutchie: it's not meant to be completed until the 27th
<gord> did mine a few days ago on the website
 * popey tickles d0od 
 * X3N doesn't like the fact it's being run by an Arms company :(
<dutchie> bigcalm: students at certain universities with short terms are asked to do it earlier
<bigcalm> I see
<bigcalm> Short term memories?
<dutchie> there is a note about it somewhere on my desk
<dutchie> but that is not particularly useful considering the state of my desk
<bigcalm> Dog walking time!
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Alan Pope] Ubuntu Wiki Relicensing  Request For Comments - http://popey.com/blog/2011/03/08/ubuntu-wiki-relicensing-request-for-comments/
<Laney> is that legally acceptable?
<Laney> silence is consent
<Baikonur> not legally, nor morally
<dutchie> Laney: pretty sure there was an auto-email that went out to all wiki contributors
<Laney> yes I know, I got it
<Laney> I am asking whether it's legal to assume that someone consents if they don't object
<hamitron> plenty of people do it
<hamitron> I'd question what is ment by a "similar license"
<cbx33> plenty of people pirate dvds
<hamitron> cbx33: I mean by official means
<hamitron> :)
<cbx33> heheh
<cbx33> :p
<cbx33> i know
<cbx33> was playing the role of annoying idiot
<hamitron> yes :D
<cbx33> did i win?
<cbx33> :p
<shauno> if the "publically listed as copyright Canonical Ltd" means there was actually a copyright assignment agreed to when you add content, then yes, it's completely legal, it's canonical's to relicense, making such consultation purely an attempt at not being sneaky about it
<hamitron> yeh
<hamitron> that was my other question... if everyone did sign the rights over
<hamitron> technically they could deny all distribution then
<hamitron> ?
<shauno> kinda damned if you do/don't.  say something, and someone will disagree with it.  say nothing, and they'll assume foul motive
<hamitron> it is times like this, I think signing copyright over is a good thing
<hamitron> removes that problem of changing the licensing if wanted/required
<Laney> correcting for lack of foresight, that's not convincing enough
<Laney> I wonder if implicit copyright assignment is even valid
<Laney> IANALBATLTIKOWIWO
<hamitron> :|
<shauno> I see no real problem with it tho (ethically).  I think CC matches the spirit any contribution to ubuntu should be made in
<Venko> Doesn't it entirely depend on you agreeing on registration to use the wiki or agreeing on submission of content for it that they would have owned it anyway?
<hamitron> what existing license is put on the content of the wiki?
<Venko> Not that I have a problem with relicensing it whether they owned it or not. I'm happy for anything I've added to the wiki to be licensed as mentioned
<Laney> The website HTML, text, images audio, video, software or other content that is made available on this website are the property of someone - the author in the case of content produced elsewhere and reproduced here with permission, or Canonical or its content suppliers. Before you use this content in some way please take care to ensure that you have the relevant rights and permissions from the copyright holder
<Laney> hmm
<hamitron> that is from signup?
<hamitron> no nvm
<Laney> http://replay.waybackmachine.org/20090223152827/http://www.ubuntu.com/legal
 * hamitron is brain dead atm
<hamitron> ffs, I have that blocked
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> does wiki system have logs of who added what?
<shauno> should do; just stick ?action=info  on the end of a url
<knightpad> hey everyone
<shauno> (altho I think the actual line you're looking for is in the site footer, so not actually park of the wiki)
<knightpad> i got  little question, i would like to have a script create a directory , where the directory name is the date
<knightpad> for example , mkdir (day of the year) as the foldername
<knightpad> or mkdir 'day - month'
<knightpad> any idea what teh correct syntax would be
<shauno> mkdir `date '+%Y'`
<shauno> would make you a dir named '2011'
<shauno> I think man 3 strftime gives you all the goodies you can use where %Y is, but %Y, %m and %d are going to be the really useful ones (year, month, date)
<shauno> so '+%Y-%m' gives you 2011-03, and so on
<knightpad> ok ah k :) thanx ! :)
 * knightpad goes forth and tinkers
<shauno> just watch your copy paste, there's both ticks and back-ticks in there :)
<hamitron> reminds me of using su -c
<hamitron> never used back tick on that though
<HazRPG> ah man, seems I'm buying a c64 just as hardware hackers are starting to give up on them :(
<shauno> heh, then you'd want to wrap it in more quotes, and life gets messy :)
<HazRPG> can't seem to find a MMC64 or any card reader/writer for the c64
<hamitron> HazRPG: if people give up on them, maybe 2nd hand is the way to go?
<HazRPG> hamitron: that's just it, there are non to be find 1st or 2nd hand :(
<hamitron> :/
<HazRPG> I'm guessing the markers are giving up
<HazRPG> but the owners of them, are still using/keeping the ones they do have
<hamitron> any documentation about them?
<HazRPG> the MMC64 doesn't, the guys been hiding the info and the firmware about them
<HazRPG> there's documentation on /how/ to use one
<HazRPG> but that's all
<shauno> should still be able to find sd2iec easy enough
<shauno> you'll find stuff like that is silly expensive tho.  I paid more for a video card for my amiga, than I've ever paid for a PC one.  short runs make them expensive to make
<HazRPG> preferably, I'd like it to be able to write/read to/from a .d64 file
<hamitron> you not got a parallel port?
<HazRPG> shauno: yeah I know, the MMC64 cost 99E.U.
<HazRPG> hamitron: on my PC?
 * hamitron shrugs
<hamitron> just reading the wiki
<hamitron> ;)
<HazRPG> the c64 should have one
<hamitron> The MMC64 serves as a read/write interface for MMC and SD flash memory media
<shauno> http://www.nkcelectronics.com/sd2iec-boar2.html   claims $45 US (Â£28 + shipping/import robbery)
 * HazRPG still hasn't received his... only got sent yesterday, and he's sending via 2nd class - much to my dislike
<HazRPG> shauno: hmm, that's not bad
<HazRPG> roughly works out to be the same price as what I paid for the c64 - but still not bad
<hamitron> you could maybe make one also
<hamitron> ?
<HazRPG> True...
<shauno> you can, that particular board is all fossy.  schematics & firmwares & sources on c64-wiki ;)
<shauno> I've got â¬400 tucked away waiting for a guy to finish making some new amiga hardware.  you've picked the wrong hobby :p
<hamitron> gives you better hacker-cred too
<HazRPG> hmm, how would one connect that up to the c64 (can't seem to figure it out)
<HazRPG> hamitron: making my own you mean?
<HazRPG> shauno: you do? What hardware are you waiting to be made?
<davmor2> hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm dragon age II  hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm http://drool.popey.com/
<HazRPG> shauno: or just in general?
<shauno> HazRPG: fpgaarcade.com  :)
<shauno> a lot of back & forth on amiga.org making sure there's a miggy softcore for it, and that the hardware is up to the job
<shauno> hm, apparently that sd2iec board sits on top of another board :/
<shauno> see if you can make some sense of http://www.c64-wiki.com/index.php/SD2IEC
<shauno> they mention being able to use it without the daughterboard, but I've no idea what it connects to that way
<hamitron> meh
<shauno> it looks like with the extra board, it's all hooked up to a 6-pin DIN so it'd hook up just like a floppy drive
<hamitron> I wish i hadn't thrown away my last 286
<hamitron> :/
<shauno> nah, you should have.  no mmu, no linux :)
<HazRPG> shauno: hmm, your making my recent investment seem like a waste lol
<HazRPG> although, I've always wanted to own a c64
<hamitron> minix 2 would of run, and been fun to play with
<hamitron> :)
<shauno> HazRPG: not at all.  just have to remember that every time you want hardware that didn't exist the first time around, you're looking looking at Â£20 jobs from someone's attick
<shauno> er, you're *not* looking at ..
<HazRPG> shauno: no I mean when you said I picked the wrong hobby lol
<shauno> so do I :)
<shauno> every time you want new hardware, it's going to bleed your wallet dry
<HazRPG> yeah, I kinda figured it would - but even new hardware has the same effect
<shauno> either get hacky and make do with what you can find; or be prepared that most things will cost more than the machine itself did
<HazRPG> treu
<HazRPG> true*
<knightpad> hey hey :) can anybody see what i've done wrong in this syntax ? DESTINATION=/media/DESIRE/Music/Podcasts/`date '+%a'`/
<hamitron> that is not a command
<HazRPG> I've been told they still hold car boot sales near here, so I'm planning on making some trips down on a Sunday morning to see if I can find some stuff
<knightpad> http://pastebin.com/y85sYiQi
<knightpad> here is the entire script
<HazRPG> apparently on the Saturday afternoon they have some in Penrith too... so might start digging through there too :)
<knightpad> its made to auto sync the latest episode of my podcasts to my android phone
<knightpad> what i added is the date option
<knightpad> so there is a folder created every day with the day of the week (that way i can see when the latest update was)
<HazRPG> I always thought car boot sales died out here when they converted the usual car boot sale area in the centre of town into a nightclub
<hamitron> it was the beer messing with your head ;)
<shauno> knightpad: what error is it giving you ?
<hamitron> loads of old smelly people to still have demand
<shauno> initial feeling is you're going to want mkdir -p on line 4, but better knowing exactly what it's complaining about
<knightpad> cannot create regular file `/media/DESIRE/Music/Podcasts/Tue/': No such file or directory
<shauno> ah, bingo
<shauno> short version: line 4, mkdir -p /media/blah/blah/blah
<shauno> long version, you're deleted 'podcasts' in line 3, then tried to make a folder *inside* podcasts on 4
<knightpad> aha !
<shauno> -p gets mkdir to create parent dirs as required
<knightpad> aaah yes indeed !
<knightpad> ok , 'ill try again
<knightpad> yep , looks like its running ! :) thanx :)
<shauno> good stuff :)
<knightpad> yep , its a nice little script that copies over the latest podcast episode from all the podcasts i download via gpodder
<knightpad> now it makes a folder on my android phones SD card with the 'day of the week' , so know i know how 'fresh' my podcasts are
<knightpad> awesome :) it works like a charm :)
<shauno> yeah, I remember you trying to figure out how to find the most recent files.  nice to see it evolve :)
<knightpad> yeah :)
<knightpad> i got the idea in the car today , how am i gonna know how 'fresh' my updates are
<knightpad> and thats how i came to the date command
<knightpad> and having learned about backticks and stuff i thought .. This could work
<knightpad> silly mkdir error , should have spotted that :)
<knightpad> i also thought of sending the output to > /home/dropbox/podcastlog.txt
<knightpad> that way i can check which podcasts have been synced over too
<knightpad> i am starting to appreciate "beautiful code"
 * knightpad is a total newbie
<knightpad> (when it comes to coding that is)
<shauno> well you've found the right way to learn.  find an itch, and have at it
<knightpad> indeed :)
<knightpad> and when you check out the entire philosophy behind my website / podcast .. its right in line with the "having technology work for you' vision
<HazRPG> shauno: hmm, that site you linked me to... looks interesting, but I think my lack of knowledge is failing me... am I right in thinking he's trying to make smaller versions of the original hardware?
<shauno> sort of
<HazRPG> or is it essentially a board used to be able to programme any hardware?
<shauno> for most the smaller parts, they're just trying to make drop-in replacements of things that haven't been made in years
<HazRPG> right
<shauno> the big board that's dominating the front page (and my savings), uses an fpga in place of processor & co, so you can emulate different machines by re-flashing it
<HazRPG> much like some of the SID chip replacements I've seen (swinSID)
 * knightpad is gonna kick back on the couch :) thanx for the help shauno 
<HazRPG> shauno: ah sweet :)
<knightpad> btw : i wrote up an article about all the help i got to get the script right for fullcirclemagazine :) so this channel (and all you guyz here) get cudo's !
<hamitron> HazRPG: shauno, what site?
<HazRPG> hamitron: http://fpgaarcade.com/
<shauno> hamitron: fpgaarcade.com  (I hope, else I'm really confusing Haz)
<hamitron> got me interesting with that large board thing
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> interested
<ali1234> you can read/write a MMC card with only three gpio controlled from software
<ali1234> as such, it's pretty easy to attach one to just about anything
<HazRPG> shauno: I'm guessing FPGA's can be purchased by themselves, however this team are mainly working towards setting up a whole board and also some firmware to place in them... or am I completely off the mark here lol
<shauno> I think the brunt of the controller I linked is the glue to present it to the c64 as a floppy drive
<shauno> HazRPG: bingo
<ali1234> FPGA dev boards are pretty common too
<hamitron> shauno: 400 dollars?
<ali1234> $400 for a FPGA based emulation seems a bit of a waste when you can just get a PC to do the same thing
<shauno> eur
<shauno> I think the last price I heard them throw around was around the 220 mark, but I have a margin because I know how these things go wrong
<hamitron> emulating something just doesn't feel the same ali1234 :)
<ali1234> emulating it on a FPGA is no different
<HazRPG> I was just about to say the same ^^
<hamitron> it is!
<hamitron> you have something there....
<ali1234> computer is computer
<hamitron> you can have an expensive rare car, a kit car that is a copy, or a driving sim on your pc
<shauno> the last board (minimig) got a lot more right that uae does, which is really the only miggy emulator going
<ali1234> i thought that project got cancelled
<brobostigon> android 2.3.3, atleast the build i have found, seems to be working rather well, on my htc dream, it has progressed quite alot inthe last few weeks, and the battery consumption seems to have improved.
<shauno> minimig?  nope
<HazRPG> shauno: hmm, but won't this board they're creating still have the same limitations as most emulators?
<shauno> crazy dutch guy appeared out of nowhere, announced he'd redone the whole A500 in an fpga, then disappeared.  universally laughed at, then re-appeared at a meet with a working board
<ali1234> ah "then disappeared" - that was the last i heard about it
<shauno> there's atleast one company still making & selling them, but it's getting a bit tired.  it's been thru a few revisions, now sports an arm daughterboard offloading harddrive emulation
<ali1234> why is it doing HD emulation instead of just having a real harddrive?
<shauno> because it's surprisingly difficult to find a drive the amiga gets on with well
<ali1234> odd
<ali1234> amiga supports SCSI pretty well i thought
<ali1234> should be possible to just use SCSI -> USB -> SCSI -> IDE drive
<ali1234> and just throw a USB port on it
<shauno> I've just been using IDE, I think scsi needs one of the bigger (3000, 4000) boxes (or a zorro card)
<ali1234> i mean, if you have a FPGA
<ali1234> you can have an amiga with USB easily
<ali1234> and USb storage is just SCSI packets wrapped in USB packets
<shauno> tried atleast 10 different cf-ide convertors, the only one I could get to boot, the floppy drive wouldn't work.  it's a fussy little bugger
<ali1234> cf-ide adapters are fully passive
<shauno> I've had completely different results with different adaptors, with the same CF :/
<ali1234> if they made a FPGA board that was a 68040 + video toaster all in one chip, now that would be impressive :)
<shauno> not sure toaster would work
<ali1234> there's no reason why it can't work
<shauno> this one's emulating a straight 68k, but at a silly speed
<shauno> toaster's one of the few things I'd expect to actually use the extra 020 instructions
<ali1234> can you still buy 68k chips?
<ali1234> if so, it would make more sense to use the FPGA only for custom chipset
<shauno> not new, no
<shauno> I've no idea what the details are, but the amiga doesn't like coldfire 68k
<shauno> so it's motorola or nothing
<shauno> plus, I like that this one isn't bound to the 68k.  there's a few pdp-on-a-fpga projects knocking around, and I really want to see if I can get one running on it
<shauno> (simh doesn't seem to idle at all.  it runs my laptop at full pelt emulating a pdp11 that's still idling at half boot)
<shauno> the only thing I'm missing in this new board, is that they wouldn't put hdmi in it, because there's a licensing cost
<shauno> because this thing has to end up in front of the telly eventually :D
<shauno> (can't do vga->dvi->hdmi because you lose the analogue path, so I can't use my real miggy on the TV without using the original resolution on composite .. yuck)
<HazRPG> hmm
<HazRPG> still don't think I fully understand all this stuff
<shauno> even more OT (if it's possible) .. http://www.siliconsonic.de/news/Indivision_AGA_components.jpg
<shauno> that's the video card I got for the miggy.  I love how hacky it is
<HazRPG> heh
<shauno> it sits upside-down, so the empty socket sits ontop of the existing video chip, and just piggy-backs
<HazRPG> I wish I was more technical minded with hardware
<HazRPG> I could imagine myself having so much fun right now if I did
<shauno> I don't understand a lot of it :)  I just thought that was a clever solution to grabbing the video bus
<HazRPG> which is why I'm interested in building my own SID if I can...
<shauno> just sits on top like a little parasite
<HazRPG> haha
<HazRPG> I think I should probably register myself on a c64 mailing list
<HazRPG> or old-school hardware... or something
<HazRPG> I wonder if VHDL is actually hard to pick-up/learn
<shauno> the little I've tried so far, is a complete mind-bender
<shauno> you keep trying to approach it like writing a program.  but it's not, at all
<HazRPG> ah
<shauno> you're describing gates, and how they interact with each other
<shauno> and the biggest trip is that everything runs at once.  just like on a chip.
<HazRPG> I suppose hardware geeks have a field day with VHDL then
<shauno> I still can't quite get my head around everything be parallel
<HazRPG> shauno: heh, so a clock cycle looks like its done nothing, when really its done a whole instruction set
<shauno> most designs do seem to do the whole set, atleast at the basic arithmetic level
<shauno> you stick two numbers in.  have a set of logic for each instruction (add, sub, xor, etc)
<shauno> then the actual instruction is used to decide which output is being used
<ali1234> VHDL is just a means to an end
<HazRPG> you know, it sometimes blows my mind to think that what we're looking at (monitor) is basically just a set of thousand 1's and 0's electrical signals being scurried around a board
<shauno> it's something to do with the latency in each gate .. by taking the end result of a set of gates, you know your mux is picking the right lines by time the clock reaches it
<ali1234> get a visual designer if it's easier
<HazRPG> ali1234: I use to use one at college, all we made was an half adder and a full adder
<HazRPG> then made a calculator with it
<HazRPG> fun times
<HazRPG> Digital Works, I think it was called
<HazRPG> hmm, I'm surprised no one has tried to make a multi-boot hardware for all old machines
<HazRPG> similar to that project shauno mentioned, except instead of flashing it for each machine you wanted to run - it just asked you on boot time which you wanted to load up
<HazRPG> I suppose with that project, you could make some firmware that did just that
<HazRPG> although depends on the flash memory space limitation I guess
<shauno> you don't really flash this; the fpga starts empty
<shauno> it's just the easiest way to explain what it's going
<HazRPG> oh no I fully understand that fpga starts empty
<HazRPG> its much like having an aurdino board - doesn't do anything until you upload some code to it
<HazRPG> but I'm guessing same applies to fpga
<shauno> yeah.  but the arduino is static
<shauno> so you power it up with no computer connected, it'll just start running the last thing you gave it
<shauno> this all comes off the sd card, so you start it with no card, you got no processor
<HazRPG> ah, so the fpga doesn't actually store any information - it just runs it?
<shauno> that's what I gather
<HazRPG> well that's what I gathered too
<HazRPG> the fpga just seems to be like a processor
<shauno> pretty much.  just a processor with almost no functions.  except the ability to define your own
<shauno> just looking thru what I missed.  he's put 60Mb on it.  I think mine has 5 :/
<HazRPG> ?
<shauno> I can't remember if there's 4 or 8 on my 020 board
<HazRPG> I thought you were waiting for them to still be made?
<shauno> I am :)  it's in the later stages
<shauno> he's already got one off to yacube, the dude that wrote the AGA core for the minimig
<HazRPG> ah, so the 5 you speak of is your actual amiga ?
<shauno> yeah
<HazRPG> with ya now ;)
<shauno> it has 2 on board, then 'more' on the cpu board I got for it
<HazRPG> cool
<shauno> I don't remember how much more tho, because I had to pop one of the chips else it can't address the pcmcia slot anymore
<shauno> and since I use that for getting files to/from my laptop, it's a rather useful slot to have
<shauno> I think it's 8 fully populated, 4 with one missing, so I'd have 6 total?
<shauno> I'd have to put it back together to find out.  blah.
<shauno> and it still doesn't fit in the case :)
<HazRPG> wow, my brain cells must be dying off at a rapid rather - I recall studying this at school, but I had to actually read about it to remember it
<HazRPG> difference between analogue and digital
<HazRPG> I knew analogue was a nice wave length, and digital is either 1 or 0 - so the wave is always square
<HazRPG> but I couldn't remember how hardware represented this
<shauno> http://shaun.oneil.me.uk/tmp/020.jpg   it doesn't look like it from there, but it's *just* too fat to get the blanking plate back on properly
<AlanBell> HazRPG: not as square in practice as it is in theory
<HazRPG> AlanBell: well yeah - but on paper you'd draw it as a square wave
<AlanBell> I feel a blog post coming on
<HazRPG> AlanBell: analogue vs digital? :P
<AlanBell> no, quizes
<AlanBell> there is a new scifi category in #ubuntu-trivia
<HazRPG> interesting
<HazRPG> nice :)
<HazRPG> AlanBell: what's your blog mainly about then?
<AlanBell> it is a blog about stuff I say
<AlanBell> http://www.theopensourcerer.com/author/alanbell/
<shauno> mild confusion; you are two different people, right ?
<AlanBell> we have been seen in the same room at the same time
<directhex> two-headed siamese twins.
 * AlanBell wonders if that is four heads in total
<shauno> ahh, I see.  even more Alans
<daubers> Rule of life is that there's always more Alans
<shauno> sorry, just did a double-take with the domain :)
<AlanBell> check the top 4 http://planet.ubuntu-uk.org/
<AlanBell> and that doesn't include Alan Cocks who I saw last night
<HazRPG> AlanBell: I managed to rig up a MusicBot for my mumble server :)
<AlanBell> http://www.theopensourcerer.com/author/lord_alan/
<AlanBell> HazRPG: cool
<AlanBell> can you record your mumble server?
<directhex> apparently the overfiend behind the EDL is an Alan.
<HazRPG> AlanBell: How do you mean?
<HazRPG> AlanBell: as in you'd like to hear a sample of it?
<daubers> Oh poo
<AlanBell> HazRPG: as in create a .ogg recording of an hour of nattering
<shauno> (eg, podcast minus skype ;)
<HazRPG> AlanBell: 2.3 apparently has a recording feature added in ;)
<AlanBell> I think it can be done with pulse and jack or something
<HazRPG> AlanBell: but 2.3 isn't in the ubuntu repo for 10.10 - you have to add the mumble PPA
<ali1234> why don't you all record your local audio and then edit it together?
<AlanBell> I am running 11.04
<AlanBell> ali1234: I was thinking of recording the quiz night for posterity
<HazRPG> AlanBell: hmm, I think 11.04 has 2.3 of mumble in there
<HazRPG> sorry my mistake its 1.3 of mumble
<HazRPG> current in the repo for 10.10 and lower is 1.2.2
<shauno> does http://blog.mumble.info/for-the-record/  help ?
<HazRPG> AlanBell: you could use any tool essentially for recording audio couldn't you?
<ali1234> oh, ok
<HazRPG> heh, seems I got the version wrong again
<HazRPG> 1.2.3 = latest
<HazRPG> (why I thought it was 2.3 or 1.3 is beyond me :/)
<shauno> 'multichannel' sounds nifty.  creates a separate file for each participant, so you can do post-edit
<AlanBell> 1.2.3-1ubuntu-3 is the version in Natty
<HazRPG> yeah :)
<shauno> maybe disk intensive for quiz night, but would be handy for podcasting
<HazRPG> AlanBell: that one has recoding ootb :)
<AlanBell> ah, but in the client
<AlanBell> so I need a Natty client or PPA install to do it
<shauno> it sounds like everyone needs 1.2.3
<ali1234> pulseaudio can record from any sound source so any individual program
<HazRPG> ali1234: yeah, that's what I said :)
<AlanBell> yeah, but that would record everyone but me
<AlanBell> because of echo removal stuff I think
<shauno> you don't have a spare machine?
<ali1234> no, because you can record from more than one source at the same time into a mixdown
<AlanBell> yeah I can do that on another machine
<HazRPG> AlanBell: someone could setup a user to be a recorder
<HazRPG> AlanBell: would also let people know that it is being recorded :)
<HazRPG> e.g. like I have a user called "MusicBot"
<shauno> could have a second client logged in on a spare machine, so everyone comes in off the same feed
<HazRPG> you could have "RecordBot" or similar
<shauno> I think I'd be tempted to do it that way just so I know that pulse isn't going to record me talking to myself (or worse) when I'm using push-to-talk
<HazRPG> shauno: btw, the recoding will work regardless of what version they are running - as long as the server is 1.2.3 and at least one client (guy recording) is running 1.2.3
<shauno> ah ok
<shauno> wasn't sure because of the comment: For privacy reasons we will not allow recording on pre 1.2.3 servers. (They are not able to properly warn their users)
<shauno> whether the clients would need to be current to accept such a hook, etc
<shauno> (never used mumble, but used to TS forcing client upgrades if they're missing server-side features)
<popey> evening all
<shauno> o/
<shauno> I swear random's given me the same song >5 tonight.  which wouldn't be so bad, but it's chubby brown :/
<daubers> evening popey
<AlanBell> so looks like there are a number of available approaches to recording, but all client-side
<AlanBell> although I could run a client on the server for recording purposes
<popey> shauno: there is a fun story of how apple changed the shuffle algorithm on the ipod shuffle because people claimed it wasnt random enough
<popey> turns out it actually was
<popey> they made it less random to meet peoples demands
<AlanBell> bias against stuff recently played?
<popey> yeah, or something
<popey> only an anecdotal story I heard
<ali1234> that was always a problem in winamp 2.x
<popey> cant remember where
<ali1234> i think they changed it too
<ali1234> there were also plugins for "moar random" i think
<shauno> I've heard that in a few contexts
<AlanBell> I love apt
<daubers> \o/
<AlanBell> I have a server, I want a mumble client on it. No problem.
<ali1234> the typical advice for winamp was always "load a playlist, random shuffle it, then play it in order"
 * daubers was on the Hairy Bikers this evening
<popey> ooo
<ali1234> and here is a plugin which does it http://www.winamp.com/plugin/randomized-load/222097
<shauno> funny, I've always wished random was more weighted
<shauno> not so much against last plays, but score songs on how often I Next them, then weight against them
<popey> banshee has some funky playlist logic
<Seeker> pancakes ftw
<HazRPG> AlanBell: can server even run mumble client without a display?
<Seeker> wrt random songs, people don't believe that you can get two songs from the same album in a row if it is really random
<ali1234> !info xvfb
<lubotu3> xvfb (source: xorg-server): Virtual Framebuffer 'fake' X server. In component main, is optional. Version 2:1.9.0-0ubuntu7.3 (maverick), package size 826 kB, installed size 1832 kB
<shauno> really random can play an album from start to finish.  which would be ... random
<AlanBell> HazRPG: I installed a minimal desktop
<Seeker> these being the same people that don't believe that 1 2 3 4 5 6 is just as likely to come up in the lottery than any other combo
<ali1234> Seeker: i think it is more an issue of them not wanting perfect mathemetical randomness
<HazRPG> AlanBell: nice one :)
<shauno> (reminds me of a time I thought my phone was going nuts; turned out I synced it without the NAS mounted, so there really was only 3 albums from the same band on it)
<Seeker> ali1234: I suspect most people wouldnt know perfect mathematical randomness if it randomly chose them and hit them round the head
<ali1234> why is this a problem?
<squizzle-uk> ytre456tr4rt543retyedrfyi6gtedew456645df8hyugtrf636wqtre35w123456t7rf6534567gtr4w3q`1237521356ni9u8654eejuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuytgrfedwsq1q345t[#
<Seeker> because its hard for them to not want it if they don't understand what it is
<shauno> people generally don't know random.  pattern-matching is how we function
<ali1234> not really
<shauno> that's how we see jesus in bacon.  facial recognition trumps .. bacon
<nperry_> Whey, my first patch taken into gnome-shell <3
<ali1234> pretty sure they don't have any problem saying "i don't want it to play the same song over and over when in random mode"
<ali1234> just because they don't understand that this is a consequence of a truly random shuffle, does not mean it is an invalid request
<bigcalm> Aroo
<shauno> popey: I'm blaming you for this :)
<AlanBell> yay, I have a recording solution
<AlanBell> http://mumble.libertus.co.uk/
<AlanBell> and now, for pancakes
<Baikonur> mm
<Baikonur> pancakes would be nice
<HazRPG> AlanBell: \o/ hurray, you called him RecordBot :)
<Baikonur> sadly we don't have a pancake day
<shauno> it's totally okay to have pancakes on non-pancake days.  Just try to restrain the public excitement, for their sakes'
<ali1234> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gj_aHCpZl4k
<bigcalm> Who needs an excuse to have them?
<bigcalm> Hehe
 * Seeker wonders if popey has managed to involve any techno-genious in pancake day
<popey> i microwaved some pancakes just now
<Seeker> hmm
<shauno> that works ? or just reheat
<popey> reheat
<popey> i cooked them 22 hours ago
<andylockran> howdy
<Baikonur> http://twitter.com/#!/Queen_UK/status/45235473173585920
<AlanBell> nyom
<shauno> where are ttys defined now that inittab's been taken out back and shot?
<AlanBell> pancakes taste better with garden eggs
<Baikonur> now i really want pancakes
<andylockran> wow.. taking ages to compile gcc using macports..
<Baikonur> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semla this is what we traditionally eat
<Baikonur> on this day
<AlanBell> you have to love the "In popular culture" section of wikipedia
<AlanBell> http://xkcd.com/446/
<ali1234> lol, that is spot on
<shauno> still not sure I like upstart :/  having to rgrep /etc because they moved something that's worked since time began . blah
<ali1234> at least grep still works
<shauno> for now :)  just wait until they discover that netbooks don't need it
<ali1234> i give it about 2 years before that happens
<shauno> that's not too bad.  next LTS should take me up to 2017.  I may be done grumping by then
<Baikonur> i'm pretty sure someone has made those edits to the wood article, at some point
<shauno> if not before, certainly after.  I'm sure you could match up the dates if you're bored :)
<exobuzz> waiting more than 3 hours for a package to build on launchpad. grumble.
<HazRPG> Hmm, is this a bug with Brasero... or a driver issue... but for some reason when I hit eject on my disc writer, it pops the disc out... but still spinning at full speed and slowly stops because its no longer connected to the thing that spins it
<HazRPG> also brasero keeps telling me that it doesn't know how to eject and I should do it manually
<HazRPG> won't let me burn the same disc multiple times for the same reason
<zleap> MadLeomon, hi
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Dave Morris] RMS Talk - http://davemorris.wordpress.com/2011/03/08/rms-talk/
<zleap> hey check out these stats http://www.heavens-above.com/visitsbyos.aspx
<AlanBell> quiz time! #ubuntu-trivia has a bunch of new science fiction questions to play
<andylockran> ready :)
<AlanBell> steady go
<zoe> Hi
<AlanBell> hi
<zoe> Seems the version of X-Chat I'm running auto-connects. Hmm...
<AlanBell> yup, it does that
<AlanBell> connects to #ubuntu-gb, which redirects to here
 * hamitron prefers the sound of #ubuntu-gb
<hamitron> too many u's in this
<zoe> :)
<AlanBell> an interesting point, I suspect it was debated at tedious length some time ago
<zoe> Ubuntu-uk does sound a little off.
<hamitron> a logo would look better for sure
<AlanBell> GB is the geographical mainland
<hamitron> Ireland doesn't matter? ;)
<AlanBell> video at the bottom of the page -> http://ubuntu-uk.org/where-are-we/
<directhex> the race is on!
<hamitron> nobody in Ireland?
<directhex> https://twitter.com/#!/directhex/statuses/45224774368100353 -> http://trac.yorba.org/ticket/3310
<AlanBell> hamitron: I think some NI people are kinda in the ubuntu-ie loco
<hamitron> my brain is struggling to think "ie"
<AlanBell> makes a bit more geographical sense
<hamitron> errrr
<hamitron> ie?
<directhex> eire
<hamitron> k
<AlanBell> directhex: so are you filing that in all the image viewer trackers?
<hamitron> doesn't that map get my pin for launchpad? :/
<hamitron> from*
<AlanBell> hamitron: no, because that feature got kinda ripped out of launchpad
<hamitron> oh
<hamitron> :/
<AlanBell> it does still have geo information in the API for some people but new people can't set their location in LP
<directhex> AlanBell: i didn't file it anywhere! i tweeted, and shotwell upstream noticed
<AlanBell> thereby proving that vala is the best language?
<zoe_> Well, that's a new record for me. 10 minutes after installing Ubuntu I have managed to crash it.
<AlanBell> oh dear, which version of Ubuntu?
<zoe_> Normally it takes at least an hour of constant tinkering
<zoe_> 10.10 64bit
<directhex> AlanBell: thereby proving shotwell has the more active upstream
<HazRPG> ZoeR: how have you managed to crash it?
<ZoeR> HazRPG: I'm not sure. I opened Chromium, OpenOffice and X-Chat, then right-clicked to start a new Chromium tab.
<HazRPG> random!
<ZoeR> Apparently my little old PC didn't like that
<ZoeR> Yeah!
 * HazRPG just finished burning off 6 ubuntu CD's
<HazRPG> hmm, why does the installer seem to pick up Windows 7 as being vista :S
<HazRPG> hurray, my laptop seems to be happeir now :)
<HazRPG> just finished installing ubuntu onto it
<HazRPG> seems I had the partitions set up ready for it, but just never got round to it
<HazRPG> although, saying that my laptop hasn't been used since I got my PC upgraded
<andylockran> AlanBell: that program looks awesome
<andylockran> though I'm awful
<AlanBell> I didn't write it, but I did debug it
<AlanBell> it has been broken for *ages*
#ubuntu-uk 2011-03-09
<AlanBell> 1/57
<HazRPG> ~0.02?
<directhex> http://www.tastystatic.com/index.php
<HazRPG> wow... apparently our lug isn't dead... apparently there was a meet yesterday (according to the facebook page)... but it wasn't mentioned on the site, nor on the mailing list... how odd...
<HazRPG> anyone used aptoncd?
<HazRPG> hmm, anyone know if the Ubuntu-UK facebook group is in anyway related to this ubuntu-uk?
<dutchie> HazRPG: I think the admin is Gary (who is on irc now), so it looks at least semi-official
<HazRPG> winner :)
<dutchie> and there are people posting on it who seem pretty uk-y
<dutchie> e.g. tony spamming uupc releases from december
<HazRPG> heh, see I don't know most of you guys by name, only handles :P
<ali1234> every time i go on facebook they have completely redesigned the homepage
<HazRPG> ali1234: because they seem to think it's the "in thing" to do :/
<ali1234> group joined anyway
<HazRPG> noticed
<ali1234> lol, 2 people unfriended me since last time i went on
<HazRPG> wow, typical
<HazRPG> ali1234: just noticed you teletext post
<ali1234> on facebook?
<HazRPG> that's wicked, your coding? Or others?
<HazRPG> nah, blog
<HazRPG> your facebook is locked down
<ali1234> oh. cos i didn't remember joining my blog to facebook
<HazRPG> (even to the point of not being able to click "add")
<ali1234> yeah that's 100% my own code
<ali1234> oh really?
<HazRPG> yup
<ali1234> hmm maybe i went a bit mad with the security panel
<HazRPG> I wouldn't be surprised if mines the same
<ali1234> oh joy they redesigned the security panel again and it's even moer confusing than before
<ali1234> i don't think there is a setting to control "add"
<HazRPG> there is
<HazRPG> but its named obscurely
<ali1234> any idea where it is?
<HazRPG> "only let friends add me by e-mail" I think it shows up as
<HazRPG> I'll have a dig, like you said they keep moving things around :/
<ali1234> oh found it
<HazRPG> Public search,  by any chance?
<ali1234> yeah there's a different page for all this stuff than the one i was on
<ali1234> so yeah teletext, i have another project which does the reverse and rebuilds teletext pages from old VHS tapes
<HazRPG> ooo, apparently you can set it to send an e-mail when someone logs in to facebook :)
<HazRPG> oh wow, so you saying that a VHS that was recorded straight from a TV stream back when teletext was enabled, you'd be able to view that data?
<ali1234> yes
<HazRPG> sweet
<ali1234> so you can read the teletext news from way back
<HazRPG> you know, it never occurred to me that such info was actually hidden in there
<HazRPG> nice :)
<ali1234> it's not even hidden, it's just that the signal is too degraded for a standard TV to understand it
<ali1234> but with powerful computers, it can be cleaned up somewhat
<HazRPG> hmm, wait... does that mean if your watching a VHS tape and hit the teletext button - it would load that data up also?
<ali1234> in theory yes, in practice no, because VHS is too low quality
<ali1234> apparently that works with S-VHS
<ali1234> but who has one of those?
<HazRPG> true
<ali1234> algorithm is not perfect yet: http://al.robotfuzz.com/~al/random/teletext.html
<HazRPG> hmm, I just thought my betamax player died during the floods in 2005 :(
<HazRPG> wow, those graphics look familiar
<HazRPG> those from tapes you own?
<ali1234> yeah
<HazRPG> its a shame most of the teletext stuff wasn't datestamped
<ali1234> it was
<ali1234> the top line is freeform but everyone always used it as a clock
<HazRPG> yeah I realised that after I hit enter and saw "25 Dec"
<ali1234> that packet gets retransmitted about 10 times per second
<ali1234> so there's plenty of chances to get a clean decode of that
<HazRPG> did you start doing this after the discussions of teletext a few nights back?
<ali1234> i wrote the encoder a couple of years ago, and the decoder i wrote a few months ago
<HazRPG> awesome
<HazRPG> do you use it often?
<ali1234> no, never
<HazRPG> hehe, proof of concept more than anything then?
<ali1234> yeah
<HazRPG> or the "just because I can" factor
 * HazRPG does a lot of that one
<ali1234> ah here we go, that tape is from 1996
<ali1234> so 15 years old
<HazRPG> wow
<ali1234> yeah, recovering teletext from VHS is considered impossible by most people who think about these things
<HazRPG> saying that, some of my tapes might be older than that
<HazRPG> I think I own robocop and stuff somewhere
<ali1234> oh yeah, i have some tapes that are older than me
<ali1234> it won't do anything with prerecodered tapes of course
<ali1234> only stuff recorded from TV
<HazRPG> oh yeah, I meant I had robocop recorded from TV streams
<HazRPG> think that might be one of the older tapes I still own
<ali1234> my dad was an early adopter of VHS tech, he bought one for the world cup in 1982
<ali1234> so actually not older than me
<ali1234> but close
<HazRPG> heh I think my dad went with betamax originally
<ali1234> i still have stuff like the young ones first series recorded from TV
<HazRPG> because I still own a fair number of cartoons in betamax form
<ali1234> that was 82, unless he recorded a repeat
<HazRPG> man, that series is almost impossible to find!
<ali1234> isn't it on DVD?
<ali1234> you can even stream it from amazon
<ali1234> $1 per episode
<HazRPG> or at least it was at one point, when I was looking for it to prove to someone that one of the guys in it was in more than just drop dead fred
<HazRPG> heh, so it is... hmm it was a few years back when I tried looking for it
<ali1234> yeah rik mayall was massive in the late 80s early 90s... drop dead fred was his attempt to go all hollywood i guess
<ali1234> like ricky gervais :/
<HazRPG> some of my friends just never saw black adder or young ones when the re-runs were on TV
<ali1234> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzZh7T7vies&feature=related
<ali1234> TV was so chilled out in the 80s
<ali1234> where is the fast cuts and loud music?
<ali1234> back when horizon was actually good as well
<HazRPG> heh, TV in general was better in the 80's
<HazRPG> comedy was actually funny, and drama wasn't overly dramatic
<ali1234> i dunno, there's always been bad sitcoms on BBC1 primetime... always
<HazRPG> I wasn't counting BBC
<HazRPG> I preferred channel 4
<HazRPG> BBC2 was alright sometimes
<HazRPG> and ITV was good at times
<ali1234> late night TV was better when nobody watched it and they just let anyone on :)
<HazRPG> haha yeah
<ali1234> HazRPG: did you see the videos i posted yesterday? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PbG0bqKzF9o
<HazRPG> nope, but I will now :)
<HazRPG> haha wicked
<ali1234> that chip is a 8051 core with hardware USB... close relative of the z80
<ali1234> i think it runs at 12mhz
<HazRPG> is the 8051 that old embedded intel chip?
<ali1234> yeah
<ali1234> z80 was a copy with added features
<ali1234> bit like AMD chips today
<ali1234> anyway, that one chip runs my whole midi "keyboard"
<HazRPG> hmm, do you not have a next button on your blog?
<ali1234> what's a next button?
<HazRPG> to see older posts... lol
<ali1234> oh
<ali1234> there aren't any
<HazRPG> I can see that lol
<HazRPG> why not?
<ali1234> but you're supposed to use the navigation menu on the right
<ali1234> took me *ages* to persuade drupal to do that
<ali1234> or the menu along the top for that matter
<ali1234> but yeah i never write any posts
<ali1234> everything is in my "real" website under http://al.robotfuzz.com/~al/
<ali1234> which does not require me to fight with drupal
<HazRPG> and remove the copyright information I'm guessing - since you don't have one
<ali1234> but it also doesn't get me any page rank lol
<ali1234> which copyright information is that?
<HazRPG> exactly!
<HazRPG> you don't have one :P
<ali1234> well copyright is automatic anyway
<ali1234> if chinese web spiders gonna steal my pages, a copyright message isn't going to stop them
<HazRPG> true
<HazRPG> and true
<ali1234> i don't really have much respect for intellectual property anyway. i was actually thinking of releaseing all my software under a "no use by anyone anywhere" type licence just as a parody of people who use licences like http://sam.zoy.org/wtfpl/
<ali1234> (and BSD)
<ali1234> in this way, the only way you could use my software would be to reject software licencing in general and steal it :)
<ali1234> but then i remembered i never wrote anything worth stealing...
<HazRPG> hehe, yeah I recall seeing the WTFPL licence :P
<HazRPG> hmm
<HazRPG> ali1234: any idea what "Too man connections" means on startup?
<ali1234> startup of what?
<HazRPG> or how I can get the list of errors that popped up on start up too
<HazRPG> ubuntu
<ali1234> try dmesg
<HazRPG> system just froze up and crashed unexpectedly :/
<ali1234> or /var/log/messages
<ali1234> "too many connections" sounds stranegly familiar though
<ali1234> can't remember what it is that says it
<HazRPG> wow, dmesg pops up with A LOT of stuff
<ali1234> was it like this: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1635278
<HazRPG> yeah
<HazRPG> that message has been bugging me for a while
<HazRPG> but I figured it was fine
<ali1234> grepping kernel source...
<ali1234> i doubt it caused a crash
<HazRPG> I got other error messages though this time
<HazRPG> couldn't tell you what they were, they popped up and disappeared before I had chance to read it
<ali1234> pastebin dmesg
<HazRPG> was already on it ;)
<HazRPG> http://paste.ubuntu.com/577686/
<ali1234> nothing in the kernel prints that exact message
<ali1234> which is odd
<HazRPG> seems to happen after "hda_codec: ALC892: BIOS auto-probing."
<ali1234> i don't see anything particularly bad in that dmesg
<ali1234> hda strikes again
<HazRPG> I want to say hda = hard drive a, but I'm not sure
<ali1234> ah here we go, ubuntu's kernel is different from mainline in that error message
<ali1234> no, hda is high definition audio, intel's replacement for ac97
<HazRPG> ah
<ali1234> hard drives haven't been called hda in linux since... well since they rewrote the ide driver to use the scsi layer and now everything is called sda
<ali1234> so this message comes from: sound/pci/hda/hda_codec.c
<HazRPG> yeah I did wonder why they started calling hard drives sda, sdb, etc
<HazRPG> because I recall Red Hat use to call them hda way back when
<ball> What were the main differences between AC97 and HDA?
<HazRPG> wow I'm not liking the /var/log/messages
<ali1234> HDA supports things that didn't exist in 1997 :)
<HazRPG> ball: I have a feeling had must stand for High Definition Audio
<ball> What sort of things?
<ali1234> more channels, higher sampling rates
<HazRPG> since the headers on the motherboard had hda written on them, along with headers for ac97
<ali1234> yeah, they have ac97 in legacy mode
<ali1234> http://www.intel.com/design/chipsets/hdaudio.htm
<HazRPG> so my dmesg looks fine you say?
<ali1234> yeah
<ali1234> nothing serious in there
<HazRPG> wish I knew how to decode it like many of you on here can
<ball> 48 kHz?
<HazRPG> ball: I recall in windows that I could set it up for 96 kHz
<HazRPG> or possibly more
<ali1234> hda = 192khz/32 bit/8 channels, ac97 = 48khz/20-bit/6 channels
<ali1234> according to the page i just linked
<HazRPG> ah, must have been 192 kHz I saw then
<HazRPG> I knew it was a high number with 9 in it
<ali1234> not all hardware has to support the full spec
<ball> Odd.
<HazRPG> I always thought audible sound couldn't be heard higher than 44 kHz (ear-wise)
<ali1234> perhaps, but harmonics can
<HazRPG> ah
<ali1234> you can't really put a fixed limit on it
<HazRPG> is it bad that I keep getting this message every couple of seconds in /var/log/messages :: koala pulseaudio[1971]: ratelimit.c: 2490 events suppressed
<ali1234> 192khz is probably "enough" though
<ali1234> yeah it's bad
<ali1234> but seems like everyone with hda gets that
<ali1234> because hda + pulse = bad times
<HazRPG> guessing there's no fix or workaround for that yet then
<ali1234> don't know
<ali1234> i just stopped using pulse
<ali1234> alsa seems to work perfectly with hda
<ali1234> and there is no noticable difference for 99% of apps
<HazRPG> I thought pulseaudio was meant to just be in the middle of alsa + input/output
<HazRPG> no wait that's wrong
<ali1234> it is
<HazRPG> input/output devices (audio) <-> pulseaudio <-> alsa <-> kernel
<ali1234> which is why it makes no sense for it to mess up so regularly
<HazRPG> or something like that
<ali1234> alsa is two things
<ali1234> the kernel drivers
<ali1234> and also a library for apps
<ali1234> pulseaudio sits in between those two things
<HazRPG> ah
<ali1234> actually, it reimplements the alsa userspace library i think
<ali1234> either way you are always using alsa for drivers
<HazRPG> so I was sorta close
<HazRPG> I knew it was a middle-man for alsa :)
<ali1234> alsa has a program called dmix which does the same thing as pulse
<ali1234> except it doesn't have as many features
<HazRPG> does pulseaudio still use HAL?
<ali1234> hal is dead and buried afaik
<HazRPG> since I recall it was planning to remove it
<HazRPG> yeah I know it is, however I recall pulse was modelled with it
<HazRPG> just remembered after seeing this diagram: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Pulseaudio-diagram.svg
<HazRPG> I thought pulse had taken it out!
<exobuzz> im not dead dave.. http://spyhunter007.com/Images/hal_9000b.jpg
<HazRPG> lol
<HazRPG> ali1234: wow, skilled programmer and 3D drawer!
<HazRPG> just noticed your hexapod robot by mistake on youtube (was looking for some blender stuff)
<ali1234> that's actually very simple
<ali1234> it's based on a real one
<ali1234> and the real one is cut from sheets of metal
<ali1234> so all the parts are actually flat
<ali1234> the full source code is on my site somewhere
<ali1234> http://al.robotfuzz.com/~al/robotkit/
<HazRPG> nice
<HazRPG> what's the source code made with?
<ali1234> C++
<HazRPG> is that source basically a Orge3D to render the 3D?
<ali1234> ogre and bullet
<ali1234> it simulates walking motion
<ali1234> check out the videos
<HazRPG> I have :)
 * HazRPG finding it hard to believe that the bot is actually flat
<HazRPG> or rather made out of flat pieces
<ali1234> not only that but there is only 5 different pieces
<HazRPG> haha nice, just scrolling through your videos and noticed FF7 running on a n900
<ali1234> the parts: http://al.robotfuzz.com/~al/robotkit/robot.png
<ali1234> the circles/rectangles with arrows are where the servos fit in
<ali1234> should you want to buy a real one: http://www.lynxmotion.com/c-117-phoenix.aspx
<ali1234> only $1000
<HazRPG> only :P
<HazRPG> Argh! This is really boggling my mind! Pattern animations done in trackers: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JkfrtNcXMgg
<HazRPG> although this one has music: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IOvoZcxQFeQ
<czajkowski> aloha
<knightpad> aloha
<AlanBell> morning all
<diplo> Morning
<AlanBell> TheOpenSourcerer: I will pop round after taking the sprogs to school
<TheOpenSourcerer> OK - I have to do the school run this afternoon but should be clear until then.
<TheOpenSourcerer> One of our neighbours has a funeral this afternoon - Helen got the short straw.
<scoundrel50> I am trying to move a program from one desktop to another, normaly I would click on the titlebar and just skide across and grab it in the new desktop. For some reason I cant do that, the open program doesnt appear in the desktop I am moving it to. How can I change that? Thank you.
<Myrtti> mmmmmmmmmm semla
<DJones> Morning all
<AlanBell> scoundrel50: right click on the title bar to move it about. The draggy thing only works if you have compiz running
<daubers> Morning
<scoundrel50> Ah, I cant get compiz to mwork on this machine. Thank you anyway.
<scoundrel50> How do i find out what my graphics card is, and if there is an update?
<DJones> scoundrel50: To check what your graphics card is, open a terminal and type "lspci | pastebinit" & post the link, this is a link to mine http://pastebin.com/imy91NDt You'll see a line with VGA compatible controller, that will be you graphics card
<nigelb> o/
<scoundrel50> http://pastebin.com/xztTngs0
<scoundrel50> thank you
<nigelb> AlanBell: traitor.  hard question :p
<DJones> scoundrel50: Looking at that, Line 22 is "01:00.0 VGA compatible controller: VIA Technologies, Inc. CN896/VN896/P4M900 [Chrome 9 HC] (rev 01)"  so it looks like a VIA technologies graphics card, unfortunately, I've not come across those so I'm not sure which graphics driver you may need to install, but hopefully somebody else will be aware of which you need
<scoundrel50> Oh right, ok, thank you.
<DJones> scoundrel50: Plus, all of my computers are so old that I've not had much sucess with compiz, and I don't want to suggest something that causes problems, but at least knowing which graphics card you've got is a start
<DJones> scoundrel50: What model computer is it out interest
<scoundrel50> Thank you, I just made a copy of that to keep. So I know for the future, this is an old laptop, which I havent updating the graphics card since I got it. Its a Windows partition, could I update the graphics card via the windows partition?
<scoundrel50> Its made by Hi-Grade, how do you work out what model it is?
<DJones> scoundrel50: No worries, I just thought it may be something you knew off the top of your head, I was just trying google & the ubuntu forums to see if anything came up with advise
<scoundrel50> I'll see if I can work out what it is, in the windows isde it runs XP
<DJones> scoundrel50: ok, any changes you made to the windows side wouldn't affect the drivers needed for ubuntu though
<scoundrel50> I wondered about that. I hardly ever go on the windows side, only to update my iPhone
<scoundrel50> I just went to the via website, they have drivers but only for Ubuntu 10.04, dont know if I looking at the right page though, but they dont seem to have updated to 10.10 yet
<AlanBell> via uses openchrome, I don't think that is going to run compiz ever
<scoundrel50> ah, I see
<AlanBell> there were some binary drivers that did unlock the 3d stuff but they were not maintained and no longer work
<MooDoo> hello all
<DJones> Morning MooDoo
<BigRedS> goood morning!
<mungojerry> morning
<davmor2> morning all
 * davmor2 prods czajkowski to see if she is awake yet
<caulkz> what im clients on 10.10 support out m8 the webcam?
<caulkz> our*
<caulkz> hello? [poke]
<mungojerry> how was the rms talk AlanBell?
<davmor2> caulkz: depends if you webcam is supported, if so all of them
<caulkz> ok
<caulkz> pidgin good for webcams?
<caulkz> im looking at a webcam atm, logitech pro 9k
<caulkz> should have ubuntu and win7 support
<caulkz> oh yea, morning all xD
<BigRedS> caulkz: m8?
<czajkowski> davmor2: meh
<caulkz> local slang, sorry :/
<caulkz> 'our friend the webcam'
<davmor2> BigRedS: Text speak, should be banned :)
<czajkowski> indeed
<davmor2> czajkowski: take that as a NO! then
<screen-x> morning all :)
<BigRedS> Ahhh, I did briefly wonder that, then wondered if it was a model or soemthing...
<BigRedS> though, thinking it through, I've not actually used my camera with an IM client, so I've no idea
<hoover> mornin
<dogmatic69> sup
<dogmatic69> what is the notification system thingy called?
<DJones> dogmatic69: notify-osd?
<dogmatic69> could be, tx
<screen-x> libnotify
<JamesTait> Buenos dÃ­as a todos!
<screen-x> Messages to the monitor manufacturing industry: 1920x1080 <-- Wrong    1920x1200 <-- Right
<AlanBell> mungojerry: RMS was great
<hamitron> screen-x: 16:9 vs 16:10
<hamitron> :/
<screen-x> \o/ Colleague just bought me some rasin toast :D
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> I wish the widescreen hype would just go tbh
<hamitron> up/down is the direction I read webpages, documents and stuff
<screen-x> yah. Standard Aspect monitors are too expensive :(
<hamitron> good ones at least
<screen-x> They are compared to wide screen.
<hamitron> I was lucky to get mine 2nd hand, when my sister wanted to upgrade to widescreen
<hamitron> but she mostly uses it for dvd movies
<hamitron> so i can see the point of that
<screen-x> wide can be good for having stuff side by side... but 2 or 3x standard aspect would prob be better :)
 * hamitron has 2 CRT side by side
<dogmatic69> o.o
<hamitron> at least you can get larger widescreen displays for the desktop
<hamitron> I hate the laptop market now
<dogmatic69> you want a laptop with CRT?
<hamitron> 768 pixel height is just not enough
<dogmatic69> :)
<screen-x> harhar
<dogmatic69> hamitron: crt's suck
<screen-x> "portable"
<hamitron> dogmatic69: give me one good reason my CRT were not a good deal when they were free?
<hamitron> ;)
<dogmatic69> my 2 full HD 23@" LCD's are awesome
<popey>  _   _ _ _
<popey> | | | (_) |
<popey> | |_| | | |
<popey> |  _  | |_|
<popey> |_| |_|_(_)
<popey>            
<dogmatic69> i would not use a crt even it you paid me, not enough space on them
<davmor2> popey: that's sad and amusing at the same time :)
<hamitron> 1600x1200 + 1600x1200
<hamitron> ;/
 * screen-x attacks popey with rm $(which figlet)
 * popey hands screen-x some sudo
<screen-x> I'm just jealous because I wouldnt get away with it :p
<popey> haha
<popey> yeah you would
<dogmatic69> hamitron: just 3840x1080
<popey> its fine now and then
<popey> just not when everyone is doing it ;)
<hamitron> dogmatic69: I intend to use these till they break, a shame to send working parts to their death
<dogmatic69> hamitron: much better to strip them and use the high voltage CRT gun thing for arduino projects
<mungojerry> i'm glad about the death of CRTs because when i worked in banks, bankers used to often use 2 x 21' CRTs
<hamitron> well, I was tempted with an LCD for an upgrade, but have instead gone for new cpu, mobo and ram :/
<mungojerry> rather bad for your back lugging those around
<czajkowski> âââââââââ
<czajkowski> ââââ ââ â
<czajkowski> â ââ ââ â
<czajkowski> â âââ ââ
<hamitron> the weight and desk space is the worst thing
<MooDoo> czajkowski: behave :)
<czajkowski> always best if you're going to CC me to not include the mail where you were extremely rude about me in it  >:(
<czajkowski> *mutters*
<MooDoo> czajkowski: sigh!
<screen-x> czajkowski: mail fail :(
 * hamitron hates CC
<hamitron> well, CC abuse anyway
<MooDoo> screen-x: cc czajkowski isn't she always whining ;)
<screen-x> MooDoo: don't drag me in :p
<dogmatic69> hamitron: i got 2 of these at work http://www.247pleasure.co.uk/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=5306
<mungojerry> worries about clicking a url like that!
<shauno> heh, I was just thinking that
<screen-x> mungojerry: my thoughts exactly
<MooDoo> mungojerry: it's a lcd
<dogmatic69> lol, its just a shop...
<MooDoo> i click whilly nilly me :)
<hamitron> OH YES BABY ;/
<hamitron> but I still like 1200 pixels down
<hamitron> :/
<dogmatic69> more than enough
 * mungojerry only has an intel onboard vga on his work pc :(
<dogmatic69> if you really want length just turn it side ways..
 * czajkowski stabs MooDoo 
<dogmatic69> mungojerry: unlucky :D
 * MooDoo gives czajkowski  big kiss for being so nice :)
<hamitron> dogmatic69: when these break, I may ;)
<mungojerry> dogmatic69: i'm in charge of the IT budget so i should buy myself something nice with it :)
<davmor2> czajkowski: Moo failed
<hamitron> I am hoping my p120 comp breaks sometime
<hamitron> :/
<dogmatic69> mungojerry: obviously you need to GT480's to run the IT department
<dogmatic69> s/to/two
<MooDoo> davmor2: she just stabbed me
<bigcalm> I has a cold *achoo*
<MooDoo> bigcalm: bless you
<hamitron> for CUDA performance ofc ;/
<screen-x> I specified my workstation at work with a dual head graphics card, when it arrived, it head three display outputs on the motherboard!
<ali1234> 1200 pixels is worth the extra money
<mungojerry> probably why i'm within budget every year...plus oodles of open source usage
<davmor2> MooDoo: Don't kiss her she won't stab you :D
<ali1234> also, a matte screen with a small bezel is worth the extra money too
 * MooDoo just connects my laptop to the 32' telly in the living room
<dogmatic69> screen-x: o.o
<MooDoo> davmor2: i'm not that stupid.....:D
<MooDoo> davmor2: ok maybe a little
<davmor2> MooDoo: You deserve all the stabbing you get then :D
<hamitron> do you guys upgrade display when your old one breaks, or when you feel like it?
<ali1234> when the old one breaks and nobody wants to give me a new one for free
<hamitron> yeh, same :)
<ali1234> or once every 10 years
<shauno> usually don't upgrade, just ditch old stuff when I move
<mungojerry> pwn2own content starts today
<ali1234> so i get a good monitor when i buy it. by the time it breaks i can usually replace it with equivalent for free
<hamitron> free = win
 * mungojerry likes free stuff
<hamitron> I did pay Â£20 for this lcd though :/
<screen-x> freecycle usually has a load of CRTs..
 * daubers is upgrading his laptop today \o/
<daubers> 250GB drive--, 1TB drive++
<hamitron> main problem with getting CRT, is you need a decent one locally
<screen-x> daubers: moar spinny disk?
<daubers> screen-x: Indeedly
<mungojerry> i have a few 6yr old machines for disposal.. when i send an email, staff can't get enough of them
<daubers> screen-x: Need the space, not the performance in this case :)
<screen-x> daubers: finished bbc project?
<daubers> screen-x: Nearly! Moving into the comissioning stages now
<popey> \o/
<screen-x> :)
 * popey upgraded his mbp to 1tb
<daubers> Kit's racked and installed, just comissioning the software over the next week
<dogmatic69> anyone have some tips to build a ubuntu instance on aws, i cant get it going :(
<screen-x> dogmatic69: http://cloud.ubuntu.com/ami/
<screen-x> daubers: so do you get a rest in a weeks time, or more big projects coming?
<daubers> screen-x: Moar big projects in the pipe :( Also business is booming, so the general day to day stuff is becoming a bigger workload too
<daubers> Need moar minions
<screen-x> daubers: sounds like it.. any chance?
<daubers> screen-x: Yup, discussions are on the off of hiring a C developer to take on some kernel dev stuff
<daubers> and possibly someone to do box builds
<screen-x> \o/
<MooDoo> daubers: need a tea boy?
<daubers> MooDoo: :p
<MooDoo> daubers: what?  i make nice tea?
<screen-x> Setting up ldap-kerberos auth clients is much easier in 10.04, compared to 8.04.. progress++
<MooDoo> czajkowski: do you need a tea boy?  that way i can annoy you all day every day :)
<daubers> MooDoo: Not that much money in the kitty yet
<mungojerry> screen-x: ldap support is klunky in ubuntu generally though
<MooDoo> daubers: hee hee
<screen-x> mungojerry: getting better though. I still have my ldap servers on 8.04 as I'm slightly confused about in-directory config.
<dogmatic69> screen-x: ec2-run-instances ami-a01bb0a1 --instance-type t1.micro --region ap-northeast-1 did something but dont see it in aws
<mungojerry> screen-x: i have to do a post-install fudgery to get ldap-tls working. redhat et al allow ldap during install
<screen-x> dogmatic69: I don't actually use ec2 at the moment, I just thought that page would be useful for you..
<dogmatic69> k, thanks
<dogmatic69> seem to be getting there
<screen-x> dogmatic69: are you using the aws free tier?
<dogmatic69> paid stuff
<dogmatic69> what does the address 0.0.0.0/0 mean?
<jpds> dogmatic69: All possible v4 addresses.
<dogmatic69> ah, thanks
<brobostigon> morning everyone.
<czajkowski> TheOpenSourcerer: AlanBell fancy a BBQ :)
<DJones> Heh, I like this idea http://random.irb.hr/signup.php Look at the "Qualifying question".... How many humans would be able to answer that off the top of their head
<daubers> Stupid apt just overwrote my postfix conf without asking me if I wanted it too
<screen-x> daubers: thats not good, upgrading postfix package?
<popey> I need a word that means "problems" "issues" "brokenness" but starts with K
<screen-x> knackerfed
<brobostigon> krippled*
<screen-x> s/f//
<daubers> screen-x: yup
<popey> real words would be more useful
<rattleStuff> Kerput
<mungojerry> knots, knotted, knotty
<popey> oh, I like knots
<czajkowski> knackered
<popey> something more like the words I mentioned
<mungojerry> gordian knot :P
<nigelb> popey: KDE :P
<popey> so i can say "Fixing computer <word>"
 * nigelb runs
<popey> hah
<mungojerry> "It is often used as a metaphor for an intractable problem solved by a bold stroke"
<mungojerry> popey: koan :P
<mungojerry> !koan
<mungojerry> "a paradoxical anecdote or a riddle that has no solution; used in Zen Buddhism to show the inadequacy of logical reasoning"
<popey> the context is "Fixing Ubuntu Computer K_"
<popey> where K is "brokenness"
<jpds> Kaputt.
<DJones> "kicked the bucket"
<jpds> popey: http://translate.google.co.uk/#de|en|Kaputt
<mungojerry> kludges
<popey> kludges implies intentional
<popey> I'm talking about accidents like broken grub
<screen-x> kinks.. but that is quite similar to knots
<popey> oooo kinks!
<directhex> popey, kinks
<directhex> aha
<mungojerry> quizzes are fun :P
<czajkowski> popey: why  K
<popey> Excellent, my document is now called Fixing Ubuntu Computer Kinks
<AlanBell> Kruft
<popey> or knots
<popey> cant decide
<czajkowski> Kinks
<DJones> Knockouts/knockdowns
<AlanBell> czajkowski: yes to the bbq
<screen-x> popey: what is this document for?
<czajkowski> AlanBell: toying with an idea to do a BBQ on document freedom day
<czajkowski> you up for it ?
<brobostigon> kinks sounds good to the ear.
<popey> yeah
 * daubers is very thankful he backed up his postfix conf after finishing configuring it
 * screen-x has a metric tonne of spagbol for lunch, not sure I need this much. 
<popey> The nations favorite dish, Spag Bol
 * brobostigon puts PMQ's on.
<czajkowski> ohhh I want spag bol
<czajkowski> hmm
 * brobostigon is ready to throw things metaphoriclly, at mp's.
<popey> why's that?
<screen-x> brobostigon: twitter at the ready?
 * daubers has rice+leftovers for lunch again
<brobostigon> popey: when idont like some stuff they say.
<brobostigon> screen-x: yep, :)
<popey> ah
 * brobostigon is liking android gingerbread(2.3.3)'s new power controls.
<bigcalm> cm7rc2 ftw \o/
<screen-x> whats new in gingerbread?
<bigcalm> Sugar and spice
<bigcalm> (and all things nice)
<brobostigon> screen-x: theming, power controls, mainly,
<popey> power controls?
<brobostigon> power manaegement*
 * czajkowski has an itchy nose and now wants spag bol 
<czajkowski> not good
<bigcalm> Heh
<popey> brobostigon: internal stuff to make battery last longer?
<brobostigon> popey: yes, as well as finding out what is using battery, and the control of such.
<popey> control?
<mungojerry> googles way of improving android is to look at sense and user mods and provide them in the next version
<brobostigon> popey: like, seeing what keeps you phone awake.
<popey> sounds useful to see what's keeping your phone awake, I'm just missing understanding what the "control" bit is
<popey> what do you get to control?
<brobostigon> popey: how apps behave.
<BigRedS> popey: I think you just get to kill power-hungry processes
<czajkowski> http://www.makerfaireuk.com/  looks like fun
<MooDoo> czajkowski: ubuntu stickers on robots :)
<mungojerry> did anyone manage to surreptitiously slap an ubuntu sticker on RMS sandal sole yesterday?
<brobostigon> mungojerry: interesting idea, :)
 * brobostigon sniggers atthe idea.
<mungojerry> or hide a tux in his beard hair
<brobostigon> lol
<popey> BigRedS: thats it? that's not exactly "control"
<czajkowski> mungojerry: didnt fancy getting that close to him tbh
<mungojerry> czajkowski: were there any other females there?
<daubers> czajkowski: How else are you supposed to beat him with the baton of useability?
<AlanBell> czajkowski: you know me, I am up for anything
<AlanBell> especially if there is beer
<czajkowski> mungojerry: yes
<mungojerry> wow
<czajkowski> AlanBell: right working on invites now for partners
<czajkowski> mungojerry: why do you say wow ?
<czajkowski> daubers: trust me after watching him eat his fingers, beard, picking things off himself and eating, I was less than inclined to go anywhere near him
<mungojerry> czajkowski: i just had impressions of an all-male beardy geek fest
<czajkowski> mungojerry: eh no
<mungojerry> despite the subject topic which crosses all genders
<czajkowski> very few beared men as well
<AlanBell> mungojerry: I have no beard
<mungojerry> julian assange wasn't there too?
<AlanBell> it was at the IEEE
<mungojerry> assange est dans l'arbre
<AlanBell> he has no beard either
<mungojerry> what colour is his hair?
<mungojerry> can't work it out
<mungojerry> grey, white , bottle blonde, blond?
<czajkowski> fair
<popey> Free?
<cbx33> hey up all
<brobostigon> afternoonings cbx33
<cbx33> howz it all going
<mungojerry> you can learn a lot from google search suggestions...was typing julian assange, and saw that the second suggestion was julian assange okcupid
<brobostigon> cbx33: no bad, just found an interesting job over in oxford, which i am reseraching, howa about you?
<cbx33> oooh
<cbx33> thinking more about the Git book I am writing
<brobostigon> :)
<ali1234> mungojerry: i wouldn't expect many neckbeards at a maker faire. macbook-toting guardian-reading hipsters with jewellery made from recycled electronics components probably strongly represented though.
 * mungojerry has a circuit board coaster, and disk platter coaster/mirror
<mungojerry> the magnets you get out of hard drives are brilliant, if ugly
<ali1234> but do you have earrings made out of resistors?
<shauno> bah.  nowt wrong with my macbook
<ali1234> http://ny-image2.etsy.com/il_fullxfull.188234502.jpg
<mungojerry> ali1234: i'm a man :)
<mungojerry> looks like they might chafe too
<ali1234> see, that's what a *real* geek would say. always practical.
<mungojerry> capacitors would make better dangly earrings
<popey> discharged ones, yes
<popey> "try these on"
<popey> "ZAP!"
<brobostigon> lol
<mungojerry> http://transistorsister.com/earings.html
<mungojerry> they do a line in cufflinks too
<screen-x> \o/ rainbow ribon cable earrings
<brobostigon> recycling, :)
<popey> some of them look quite heavy
<mungojerry> my vim session has hung :(
<ali1234> what have i done.......... *facepalm*
<screen-x> hardcore jpg compression in the header :(
<mungojerry> screen-x: yeah, lose geek cred there bigtime
 * mungojerry looks to popey for a topic change
* popey changed the topic of #ubuntu-uk to: Welcome to #ubuntu-uk! http://ubuntu-uk.org | This channel is publicly archived: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Mailing List:  http://tinyurl.com/uukml | Support Guidelines -  http://tinyurl.com/uuksupport | Meeting Thursday March 17th 21:00 GMT in #ubuntu-uk-meeting  http://tinyurl.com/uukmeet | Quiz Night poll: http://doodle.com/eucwzx2qdiiiqs5p Gord fixed Bug 721447 \o/ | (
<popey> done
<screen-x> )
<mungojerry> :'(
<mungojerry> by the way...how can a bug reported in launchpad get reported as a duplicate of a higher numbered bug?
<popey> it happens
<ali1234> because duplicate field is set at any time in any direction
<mungojerry> also, the higher number bug seems to be private :S
<ali1234> security bug then
<mungojerry> or maybe the bug reporter who did the higher number bug has privileges :)
<ali1234> no, anyone can make a bug like that
<bigcalm> A ticket might be worked upon and then somebody finds a previous ticket with similar properties and so closes it as a duplicate of the one being worked upon
<ali1234> or the newer report might just be more detailed
 * brobostigon made to much tea, so offers everyone a cuppa.
<brobostigon> too*
<bigcalm> \o/
<bigcalm> Never too much tea
<mungojerry> yeah, i can't see it :-S i don't think there's a security issue, but crash logs often get marked private by default ,
<ali1234> yes if there is a core it will
<ali1234> since it can contain just about anything
 * mungojerry likes to submit crash logs from a scapegoat machine
 * brobostigon is dissappointed at apt, empathy seems to have package inconsistencies.
 * popey is reminded of the totem bug report containing a list of videos the person had watched
<popey> including disney films and pr0n
<brobostigon> lol
<shauno> what's wrong with watching disney films?
<brobostigon> shauno: maybe they were ripped off?
<popey> http://tumbleweed.popey.com/
<shauno> that's what we did for new years this year.  10 hours of singalongs & wine
<shauno> but without the pr0ns, I don't know my neighbours /that/ well
<mungojerry> popey: i remember that one...classic
<ali1234> there are in fact several such bug reports, and not just with totem, and not even just from cores
<mungojerry> http://www.guardian.co.uk/government-computing-network/2011/mar/09/government-needs-to-bring-it-skills-in-house
<brobostigon> brb.
<johnny_mckenzie> hi
<DJones> Hi johnny_mckenzie
 * brobostigon returns.
<johnny_mckenzie> what's happenin'?
<screen-x> johnny_mckenzie: we are fighting the inbalance in the topic )
<johnny_mckenzie> what topic?
<screen-x>  /topic
<directhex> heh
 * screen-x is trying to use javaws to start an ipmi viewer but gets 90 lines of stacktrace :(
<mungojerry> what's all this census gubbins? i haven't received any letter yet
<screen-x> mungojerry: I've got two, you can have my welsh copy ;-)
<mungojerry> cool
<mungojerry> pobol y cwm and all that
<screen-x> yah
<screen-x> apparently "ffynhonnell agored" ~= open source :)
<mungojerry> LOL @ paper media...metro has big story on front page re: google that's about 3 days old
<mungojerry> screen-x: that's not a religion
<mungojerry> well it is to some
<screen-x> religion?
 * daubers doesn't belong to a religion
<mungojerry> thought maybe you were thinking of entering ffynhonnell agored as your religion on the welsh census
<daubers> I belong to the Cult of Irssi
<mungojerry> the welsh probably have more druids too
<MooDoo> mungojerry: we got our census pack the other day, i'm not going jedi this year
<screen-x> mungojerry: ahh, no I was just playing with google translate..
<daubers> Filled mine in and sent it back already :)
<mungojerry> surprised if anyone goes jedi since jar jar binks
 * mungojerry is feeling left out
<screen-x> daubers: elektronical?
<MooDoo> daubers: i'm doing mine on the net, can't be bother filling 32 pages
 * shauno stab stab firefox
 * screen-x passes chromium to shauno
 * czajkowski needs to order another Census pack there are 7 of us in the house and only 6 spaces
<mungojerry> czajkowski: cats don't count
<shauno> screen-x: tried that, doesn't work with an in-house app :/
<czajkowski> mungojerry: eh ?
<X3N> is recce the same "I'm going for a recce around town" ?
<daubers> screen-x: No, paper
<screen-x> czajkowski: living in a commune?
<daubers> MooDoo: You don't fill in all 32 pages....
<shauno> tried raising it as a bug & got a lecture about installing unapproved software.  pfft.
<MooDoo> daubers: phew!
<screen-x> shauno: :(
<mungojerry> my parents in law have facebook accounts for their dogs and will probably try to enter them on the census
<screen-x> I quit facebook shortlyl after getting a friend request from a friend's dog.
<shauno> we've got unauthorized servers running unauthorized attempts at reverse-engineering our own products, and I get told off for running chrome.  daft buggers.
<brobostigon> mungojerry: my mum has a facebook account for her toy bear,
<mungojerry> screen-x: yeah, a lot of "you might know this person"..are pictures of dogs now
<shauno> on the plus side, just found out my annual bonus is way over target, so I get to go shopping for a new laptop :D
<Tommeh> Am I right in thinking that, if KMS isn't available when booting Natty -- it falls-back to Gnome instead of Unity?
<Tommeh> i.e. if using the Nvidia GLX driver.
<mungojerry> any natty users check if software-center is working?
<MooDoo> mungojerry: not here sorry
<mungojerry> MooDoo: thanks...i think it's mid-update
<mungojerry> next apt-get saw some update manager stuff
<MooDoo> mungojerry: is natty gnome 3?
<MooDoo> not really read much yet
<BigRedS> If I'm installing to /usr/local an alternative version to a dpkg-installed app, where would I sensibly put the config files? /usr/local/etc?
<daubers> !unity
<lubotu3> Unity is a shell for GNOME, but it is not GNOME-shell. See http://unity.ubuntu.com and http://www.jonobacon.org/2010/10/31/unity-some-further-clarification-points/ for more information. Have a question, check http://askubuntu.com/questions/tagged/unity
<daubers> MooDoo: ^
<MooDoo> daubers: thanks
<mungojerry> BigRedS: IMHO that's sensible and commonly done
<mungojerry> /usr/local/bin, /usr/local/etc ,
<BigRedS> mungojerry: ah, cool, that looked about right, but I don't recall seeing it before
<mungojerry> BigRedS: used to do it a lot, but mainly on solaris/redhat boxes..it's good to use packages where possible
<mungojerry> ever read the centos article about packages vs compiling ur own?
<BigRedS> mungojerry: yeah, I want php5.2.x and php5.3.x on the same machine
<BigRedS> and no, I've not. I'll see if I can find it
<ZoeR> Hi"
<ZoeR> Hi! even
<brobostigon> hi ZoeR
<DJones> Afternoon ZoeR
<ZoeR> How are you all today?
 * popey cuddles gord based on bug 721447
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 721447 in unity (Ubuntu) "Unable to scroll in Applications/Files and Folders Place using mouse wheel" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/721447
<davmor2> popey: creep
<popey> :'(
<gord> yeah was fix committed on monday but i am lazy and didn't change the bug
<brobostigon> ZoeR: not bad, trying fix an empathy natty package inconsistency. and you?
<screen-x> hmmm, cant run jnlp file from chrome, cant launch with javaws in terminal, but can start from firefox. strange. )
<Myrtti> I'm feeling strangely pissed off even when my vacation starts in about 36 hours
<Myrtti> *sigh*
 * Pendulum hugs Myrtti 
<Pendulum> why shouldn't you feel pissed off?
<dogmatic69> i just set up vsftp and made a new user that has /var/www set as its home dir (main ftp to 'sites') but it cant list anything in filezilla
<dogmatic69> user is in www-data group and files are owned by the www-data group
<dogmatic69> is that all wrong? and how can i get it to list in ftp now
 * ZoeR is being distracted by a cat
<popey> \o/ cats
<screen-x> popey:) )  )    )        )                )                                )
<popey> why screen-x, what a big chin you have
<popey> s/chin/set of chins/
* ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-uk to: Welcome to #ubuntu-uk! http://ubuntu-uk.org | This channel is publicly archived: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Mailing List:  http://tinyurl.com/uukml | Support Guidelines -  http://tinyurl.com/uuksupport | Meeting Thursday March 17th 21:00 GMT in #ubuntu-uk-meeting  http://tinyurl.com/uukmeet | Quiz Night poll: http://doodle.com/eucwzx2qdiiiqs5p Gord fixed Bug 721447 \o/ | ( )
<screen-x> \o/
<kazade> anyone seen that HP will be shipping WebOS on all its PCs next year?
<kazade> (alongside Windows)
<ZoeR> WebOS? I don't think I've seen that one.
<screen-x> It'll be interesting to see how they do that.. like a splashtop thing?
<screen-x> ZoeR: originally on the palm pre
<kazade> screen-x, I guess so
<Myrtti> we went to have my mums cat castrated today
<Myrtti> poor thing is lying senseless on a towel in the bathroom
 * screen-x winces
<ZoeR> Awwww
 * DJones sheds a tear for the poor cat
<AlanBell> kazade: http://twitter.com/#!/keybuk/status/43601058383138816
<AlanBell> is that true do you think?
<Myrtti> well, if he hadn't peed in my nephews football gear bag twice and on our shoes once, he'd still have his family jewels
<Myrtti> so I think his demise is selfinflicted...
<brobostigon> hormone driven, self-inflication.
<kazade> AlanBell, sounds plausible...
<screen-x> Myrtti: is the idea that after the event, they CBA to mark out their teritory any more?
<Myrtti> screen-x: yup
 * AlanBell will take care not to pee on Myrtti's shoes
<Myrtti> it was my nephews football gear that was the last straw methinks
<andypiper> well, marvellous... software-center is segfaulting on my Natty install
<Myrtti> I just had to check and my laptop indeed doesn't have a windows licence sticker on it
<Myrtti> in fact, it doesn't have a windows sticker of anykind, only a windows key
<brobostigon> :)
<andypiper> not that it matters when I can't actually use the trackpad per bug 730823
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 730823 in xserver-xorg-video-intel (Ubuntu) "Input device button/click not working on fresh Natty Alpha 3 install" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/730823
 * popey tickles andypiper 
<andypiper> bah
<andypiper> humbug
 * brobostigon has salt and vinager, potato twirly, snacky thingies.
 * Myrtti should go make thai curry
<popey> \o/ cury
<brobostigon> yummy,
<dwatkins> haha
<popey> +r
<screen-x> s/thai//
 * andypiper wonders if he should raise bugs for all the applications that don't have (any|nice-looking decent res) icons in the Unity panel
<czajkowski> andypiper: so hows natty  going for you
<andypiper> honestly, were it not for the unity niggles (which are being worked on, and bugs reported), and critically, the touchpad... it's a *lot* better than I'd expected
<andypiper> quite liking - on netbook
<andypiper> not tried the full-sized experience yet
<popey> i quite like it, even though (grrr) I have had to switch of ffm
<popey> :(
<czajkowski> ffm?
<popey> Focus Follows Mouse
<screen-x> evil nasty
<popey> pfffft
<DJones> Sheesh, how dumb do spammers/phishers/internet con's think people are http://pastebin.com/i413wrER Sending an email saying "HMRC have upgraded their equipment and we're due a refund, please fill in your details"....
<hamitron> DJones: nice one \o/
<Myrtti> http://www.flickr.com/photos/myrtti/5512294626/
<popey> DJones: enough to make it worth sending, clearly
<Myrtti> poor thing
<popey> awwwwwwwwwww
<popey> cute overload
<DJones> I'm just debating whether to sign the "buskaronikal34@gmail.com" and "abcdursulica@gmail.com" email addresses that get pulled out from the form to some mass marketing/spam lists :)
<andypiper> oh yeah, and lots of apps that haven't switched to app indicators yet are a bit of a pain
<AlanBell> DJones: you have an unjustly high opinion of society at large
<andypiper> and bug 729563 on chromium is a bit of annoyance
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 729563 in chromium-browser (Ubuntu) "Does not register itself as a handler for http URIs" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/729563
<DJones> AlanBell: Quite possibly
<AlanBell> I am freezing
<andypiper> ... but the ticker on my Android launcher screen says 50 days to go
<andypiper> plenty of time
<czajkowski> Myrtti: need to tag pics as tag then I dont click and go eep in the office
 * davmor2 has an image of czajkowski dancing a jig going eep eep eep
 * czajkowski stabs davmor2 
<Myrtti> well atleast I didn't put the pictures of the snipped rear end out in public...
<Myrtti> "count your blessings"
<davmor2> czajkowski: the sad thing it now people who read that will have the same image :P
<Myrtti> I'm still processing that sentence... I've not had enough sugar/caffeine today
<czajkowski> davmor2: too tired! shhhh go have a nap or a time out
<MooDoo> czajkowski: your violent today, i don't approve
<davmor2> MooDoo: you're only jealous that it's not directed at you ;)
<MooDoo> davmor2: it was earlier
<ZoeR> wb
<bigcalm> Me?
<czajkowski> Would folks be interested in having a BBQ for the Natty release party here in Weybridge on Saturday 30th april ? if interested raise your hand? curious to see numbers
<MooDoo> working :(
<bigcalm> czajkowski: Mum and Gran's birthdays are that weekend :(
<AlanBell> o/
<czajkowski> cause I know the 29th is the royal wedding
<bigcalm> Mum will be 60, so better no miss it
<czajkowski> and the thursday is usually london and drinks
<popey> bigcalm: you have 2.3 on your phone?
<popey> does it support multiple active sync accounts?
<popey> i think thats the term
<bigcalm> popey: 2.3.3 :)
<popey> for connecting to exchange servers
<bigcalm> Erm, dunno. I only have one such account (hotmail)
<bigcalm> As far as I knew, I could have added more than one since before now
<popey> not on 2.2
<bigcalm> Oh
<popey> bloke here is asking, he has it
 * dutchie wonders why blog.canonical.com is not on planet.u.c
<bigcalm> I click Add an account and I can add another Corporate one
<bigcalm> popey: yes I can add more if I had more, but I rarely use my one hotmail account as it is :)
<mungojerry> BigRedS: which OS are you using?
<mungojerry> regarding php52 /53
<bigcalm> dutchie: too much spam?
<dutchie> well afaict no news of the netbook edition disappearing has made it onto the planet
<AlanBell> dutchie: well I don't think any of the authors are Ubuntu Members, but there is a process for getting corporate blogs approved
<AlanBell> or going for Membership
<dutchie> would have thought that canonical is something of a special case though
<ZoeR> well, got to go. cya later! :D
<mungojerry> dutchie: i think planet is broken
<mungojerry> last message 11:47 yesterday
<Tommeh> Anyone here with experience on using cgroups with libvirt?
<AlanBell> dutchie: in theory it isn't
<dutchie> AlanBell: i appreciate that, but "in theory"
<AlanBell> "in theory" means "not really"
<HazRPG> hi all :)
<bigcalm> In this case, but not always
<mungojerry> ubuntu planet has no new posts for over 24 hrs..certainly a technical issue based on usual post frequency
<HazRPG> either that or nothing to report yet lol
<andylockran> howdy guys
<bigcalm> Morning
<andylockran> just got myself a nice little sata->>usb/eSata docking station
<HazRPG> hi-diddily-ho andylockran
<brobostigon> afternoonings HazRPG :)
<HazRPG> brobostigon: afternoonings to you too :)
<mungojerry> question: do people normally eat the navel from navel oranges?
<brobostigon> HazRPG: :)
<HazRPG> mungojerry: the what now?
<hamitron> mungojerry: the small seperate bit inside is fine
<mungojerry> my mum told me not to when i was a kid...and i've always felt unsure since
<hamitron> bit chewy but not to be wasted :)
<hamitron> hmmm
<soneill> is it not true that people used to eat oranges peel and all?
<hamitron> a lot still do
 * screen-x learnt to swallow tabbles by practicing with progressively larger pieces of orange peel
<hamitron> peel can't be bad for you, when there are puddings with it sprinkled on top for decoration
<hamitron> tbh, I don't like the skin ;)
<HazRPG> most fruits you can eat the whole thing tbh
<hamitron> pineapple and coconut I am not sure
<mungojerry> coconut is a nut
<hamitron> it is?
<HazRPG> e.g. the white skin between each pomegranate seed inside is good for the immune system - however most don't eat it because its sour in taste, and also causes you to get dry mouth
<hamitron> oh well ;)
<mungojerry> HazRPG: i don't even like pomegranate seeds
<hamitron> picking the cells from pomegranate must take more energy than they give...
<HazRPG> I love the stuff, white skin included
<HazRPG> hamitron: heh, see I don't pick them - I just eat it as is
<mungojerry> they are pricey in the UK
<hamitron> HazRPG: so not as hard work :)
<HazRPG> cut into 4 quarters, then <om-nom-nom>
<hamitron> I wouldn't advise swallowing the seed in a peach either
<hamitron> ;)
<HazRPG> I use to cut it into halves when I was a kid, peel the white bits then munch on the seeds, then peel white bits again
 * screen-x eats a crunchy pear but leaves the core..
<HazRPG> but as I grew up, and also as my nan made me soup out of the white bit, I realised that the skin was quite nice too
<HazRPG> mungojerry: yeah I know they are :(
<HazRPG> mungojerry: I mainly ate them in egypt and in saudi because they're very cheap over there
<DJones> When I was a kid, I was always told never to eat the seeds in apples etc because the might grow inside me, it put me off fruit for life :)
<mungojerry> i guess you eat figs whole too then
<hamitron> haha DJones
<screen-x> DJones: I fell for that as well :(
<hamitron> I recall been told that
<HazRPG> mungojerry: over here, I get them every now and then - but its hard to find them in the normal sourish taste (just before they're fully ripe)
<HazRPG> I don't like it when its sweet
<mungojerry> DJones: yeah..plus the navel thing, my mum said something about bugs laying eggs in the navel..i didn't want a caterpillar inside me
<HazRPG> mainly because I never had them when it was sweet when I first started to eat them
<screen-x> mungojerry: sounds like something from the matrix
<kazade> hmm, what's the best way to migrate an SVN server permanently over to Bzr? svn2bzr or bzr-svn?
<davmor2> kazade: find the lp channel on freenode and ask their they can give you the definitive answer :)
<HazRPG> woah, this must have taken a lot of time to make: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PjlnK1iWj8&NR=1
 * andypiper raises his hand and yells at czajkowski so she doesn't miss his vote...
<andypiper> (that's assuming she's not all a'maaaaaad at me...)
<DJones> dutchie: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/03/09/canonical_ubuntu_editions/ There may be some comments now its appeared on el reg
<czajkowski> andypiper: ohh
<czajkowski> :D
<czajkowski> andypiper: we shall finally meet!
<andypiper> eeeeek
 * andypiper prepares his disguise
<andypiper> (of course if I'm the only invitee, the disguise may not help)
<davmor2> czajkowski: how did Jon get on trying to put Fedora on gorgamon (netbook)
<czajkowski> lol
<czajkowski> davmor2: never tried and gorgamon is well hidden fro fedora going anywhre near it
<czajkowski> dont be giving him ideas
<HazRPG> that sounds like a digimon :/
<czajkowski> I just thought for the Ubuntu UK loco we could do something FUn for a release party that is for the LoCo and run by the LoCo and thought of a BBQ....
<czajkowski> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Gormogon
<davmor2> czajkowski: I thought gorgamon was dead so it wouldn't matter if it brought it back to life surely :D
<czajkowski> davmor2: eh not fedora
<czajkowski> I'd never hear the end of it
<HazRPG> ah, I never got round to watching season 3 of bones yet
<diplo> 3??!?1
<diplo> It's on like 8 now ?
<diplo> 6*
<HazRPG> yeah I don't watch an awful lot of TV
<diplo> :p
<HazRPG> I'm usually too engrossed in my projects I always have going on
<HazRPG> still haven't figured out how to make this spare blu-ray drive from a PS3 work on the PC :/
<HazRPG> I know its definitely just using an IDE ribbon cable that appears to be the wrong way round
<HazRPG> and extra pins
<iulian> czajkowski: Thought of London as well?
<czajkowski> well it'd be down in Weyrbridge
<iulian> Cool!
<HazRPG> my sister just recently bought the friends trivia game (for the PS2)
<HazRPG> she's currently playing it now
<HazRPG> how silly lol
<morleypotter> May I ask a quick question please? When you end a remote ssh session are you also automatically logged out of the machine you are connecting to?
<morleypotter> were connected to, rather
<HazRPG> should be
<popey> depends :)
<popey> there may still be processes running as you at the other end
<popey> depending upon what you did
<popey> e.g. I have stuff running all over the place, yet I am not currently connected to those boxes
<popey> however if all you do is "ssh remotehost" and then "exit" there's probably nothing running
<popey> (unless you use byobu / screen, in which case there might be) :D
<morleypotter> It's a web server (Ubuntu 10.4 server) & I have no way of checking
<morleypotter> oh wait
<morleypotter> i can just do 'exit' can't i
<morleypotter> [feels stupid]
<morleypotter> Apologies chaps
<mungojerry> gormogon...that was a super lame ending to the Bones series, due to the writers strike
<mungojerry> new ubuntu one logo..http://voices.canonical.com/ubuntuone/?p=809
<Azelphur> now this is interesting...I'm running 2 X screens. One of them is completely frozen, the other one is fine
<hamitron> Azelphur: these the ones on seperate graphics cards?
<HazRPG> Azelphur: you seem to be getting a bit of jip recently lol
<Azelphur> hamitron: yea
<Azelphur> HazRPG: indeed, I thought I'd fixed my issues with a fresh install :(
<hamitron> I was just thinking, I could try when i get my new comp... only the ITX board only has 1 slot ;)
<Azelphur> yay I recovered the other X session
<mungojerry> http://design.canonical.com/2011/03/quit/ - not sure i really agree with the argument
<DJones> mungojerry: I don't like not having a quit button on android, I find it hammers memory over time and I end up using a task killer to shut app's down
<kazade> mungojerry, I'm all for dropping the Quit menu item, and ending the application when all it's windows are closed. It gets confusing with the whole tray thing, and I'm not convinced that MPT is going the right way with it
<mungojerry> DJones: mobile OS functionality is only that way because of limitations, i don't think a fully fledged desktop OS should copy it
<kazade> I think basically, if an application can run in the indicator applet, it should continue running when all it's windows are closed, but I *don't* think that they should quit depending on what they are doing (e.g. quitting when there is no music playing) and I do think that for those applications there should be a way to end them completely
<kazade> so basically, the indicator is like having another window. Closing all windows ends the program. Apps in the indicator applet should gain a little close button.
<mungojerry> it is also claimed that "hardly any applications have a quit button"
<mungojerry> maybe we're all missing the point somewhere
<brobostigon> is 30mins an acceptable poll time, for k9 on android, to pick up my mail. ?
<HazRPG> haha I might have to get the soundtrack for Gun Loco :P
<screen-x> I like the idea of splitting interface from function. It is nasty to have separate mail clients and notifiers.
<HazRPG> if the homepage is anything to go by :P
<screen-x> brobostigon: you decide
<brobostigon> screen-x: i am trying to decide, i dont want it too often, as it will use too much power, however i dont want it to such huge length, i have masses to pickup and read, and use quallyhuge amounts of power.
<screen-x> brobostigon: can you use an imap idle type thing? or is that unacceptably power hungry?
<popey> brobostigon: i dont know how often my mail client polls :)
<popey> and dont care :)
<screen-x> popey: presumably yours "pulls" in some magical apple way.
<brobostigon> screen-x: imap push, yes, that is possible.
<AlanBell> imap IDLE
<brobostigon> popey: :)
<popey> i have 6 mail accounts on my phone
<popey> 4 are imap, 3 are exchange
<screen-x> hmm I meant pushes..
<popey> there does seem to be some kind of push thing happening in some magical way, yes
<AlanBell> it isn't a push
<AlanBell> it just looks like it
<screen-x> I only have one and its gmail/exchange. It consistently picks up new mail before the gmail web interface.
<AlanBell> it is more like a very very slow pull
<brobostigon> AlanBell: what is  itlike, compared to the other methods?
<screen-x> AlanBell: idle?
<popey> oh, mines set to manual
<popey> i have 15, 30 and 60 mins as options, but dont use any of them it seems
<AlanBell> if the server supports it you connect and give the idle command and the server sits there tapping it's fingers and not responding
<AlanBell> until you get an email then it completes the response
<AlanBell> then you pull
<screen-x> AlanBell: but it is push, as the server notifies the phone by responding
<brobostigon> AlanBell: do the gmail imap servers support it?
<screen-x> even though the phone has to setup the request initially.
<popey> brobostigon: yes but you set it up differently to do that
<popey> "active sync" I think it's called on android
<popey> "exchange" is what it's called on iphone
 * andypiper throws terminology into a blender and presses the big button
<brobostigon> popey: ok, let me look inside k9.
<AlanBell> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IMAP_IDLE#Software not on the list
<popey> brobostigon: I'm talking about the default mail app, not k9
<screen-x> brobostigon: I'd just use the official gmail app on android and not worry about it.
<brobostigon> popey: i am not using the standerd app, i have to have sync on, and it uses too much power.
<popey> why do you care how much power it uses?
<screen-x> brobostigon: but if you turn sync off, your calendars dont get updated :(
<brobostigon> popey: battery life.
<popey> don't you have your phone plugged into a usb port/charger when you're at a desk?
<popey> my phone is 100% more often then it is any other state
<brobostigon> screen-x: thats doesnt worry me too much, once a day, is fine,
<Azelphur> ^ is why I overclock my G2 :D
<brobostigon> popey: my concern is when i am, not.
<Azelphur> I charge it every night, and it gets charged at my desk, it holds fine
<popey> how often is that brobostigon
<Azelphur> I carry a spare battery if I'm going a long time without a charge
<brobostigon> popey: every day pretty much, for a few hours, and thenmuch longer other days,
<popey> i am rarely far from power
<popey> and if the phone dies.. meh
<screen-x> popey: friends in high places?
<popey> screen-x: bless you
<DJones> brobostigon: What phone have you got? I charge my desire hd overnight, use it during the day for email/bit of web browsing etc, maybe na hours reading at dinner time, another hour reading in the evening, and the batter rarely drops below 50%
<brobostigon> popey: i can be far away from the possibility of plugging it in sometimes, so amworking out, for those occasions.
<popey> \o/ batter
<brobostigon> DJones: i also charge at night, and then plugin whenever possible.
<popey> i have a charger by my bed, one in the den, one in the car and one at work on my desk :)
<brobostigon> :)
<screen-x> brobostigon: sounds like you need a usb battery thing, for extended away from desk.
<DJones> I migt get one for the car so that using the driving directions wouldn't kill the battery
<brobostigon> screen-x: a solar charger maybe, or a hydrogen fuel cell.
<popey> solar seems less optimal
<popey> you'd need to be sat still in the sun
<shauno> I have a little external battery, but only really use it when traveling. only usually need to charge while I sleep
 * popey looks out the window
<brobostigon> agreed. popey
<popey> plus for those times I'm away from power, I'm near a computer :)
<davmor2> brobostigon: If it's pre android 2.1 makes sure you have APNdroid installed and knock off the 3g when there is a wireless signal you'll double your batterylife
<popey> USB charging ftw
<brobostigon> davmor2: its android 2.2.1
<popey> yeah, i used to disable 3g when i was at home
<popey> you dont need extra apps for that
<popey> i had it on my hero 1.6
<davmor2> brobostigon: have you thought of investing in a new battery in that case?
<brobostigon> davmor2: i have a new bettery since xmas. and have it set to use 2g only.
<davmor2> brobostigon: I'm on 2.1 and I can use google maps satnav long than you can use your phone.  I'd say you have an issue somewhere
<brobostigon> earlier, while on 2g, and sync and background data turned off, and k9 polling every 30mins, it drained 1% in just over an hour.
 * screen-x unplugs phone and goes home ;-)
 * MartijnVdS gave up and now recharches his n1 at every opportunity
<popey> yeah
<popey> thats my method, then I dont have to worry about it
<MartijnVdS> recharges*
<popey> just plug it in at every opportunity :)
<brobostigon> i think 1% an hour, is probebly the best i can achieve,
<popey> o_O
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: set display brightness to minimal, set to airplane mode ;)
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: brightness i have fully down, flight mode,defeats the point.
 * MartijnVdS is still waiting for the Dutch price of the Xoom
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: just change the dollars for Euros you'll be somewhere near close
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: probably, yes
<MartijnVdS> I saw PC world sells them for Â£500
<MartijnVdS> well pre-sells
<czajkowski> region 1 or region 2 for dvd buying for UK ?
<HazRPG> region 2
<czajkowski> thanks
<HazRPG> region 1 is USA
<HazRPG> no problem :)
<HazRPG> Region 2 btw, is for Europe, Middle East, Egypt, South Africa, Greenland a few a few others - so you'll be able to get a DVD that was released in any of those :)
<czajkowski> yes I always seem to froget
<czajkowski> forget
<ging> all those greenlanders coming over here stealing our dvds!
<HazRPG> haha
<HazRPG> czajkowski: region 0 or (all) should work too without much faffing around with your DVD drive too :)
<czajkowski> yeahb trying to find region 2 of the closer
<ging> and they rigged all the world's maps to make greenland look way bigger than it really is to scare off would be invaders
<HazRPG> ging: hehe
<brobostigon> lol
<czajkowski> ging: aloha!
<ging> oh hi, just realised this isnt #surrey where i was last talking to you
<czajkowski> ging: eh no
<czajkowski> this is #ubuntu-uk
<czajkowski> not many surrey folks in here
<czajkowski> :(
<ging> well irc channels all look a like
<AlanBell> is #surrey on some other network?
<brobostigon> accept for the tony little tag, tthe bottom of irssi to show what channel you are in.
<ging> yeah
<brobostigon> tiny little*
<ging> AlanBell: irc networks all look alike too
<czajkowski> AlanBell: aye
<AlanBell> they do, but I get confused by multiple networks
<brobostigon> i am a two network man,
<AlanBell> I connected to the gnome or debian one a few times but just ended up joining empty channels on the wrong networks so I don't bother now
<ging> i used to be on 4 but i lost 1
<popey> AlanBell: irc.lug.org.uk
<popey> as is #hants
<AlanBell> gwibber is on some other network
<ging> do people talk in #hants now?
<AlanBell> ok, so I did /connect irc.lug.org.uk
<directhex> #hats?
<popey> or irc.blitzed.org
<popey> ^ prob better
<AlanBell> now I want to /join #surrey on that network, not freenode. How do I do that?
<czajkowski>    /connect server
<AlanBell> did that part
<brobostigon> ctrl + x to change network,
<czajkowski> then as normal
<brobostigon> onthe status window.
<czajkowski> well youre joined to that network automatically
<czajkowski> then /j #surrey
 * czajkowski await the influx 
<AlanBell> awesome brobostigon, thanks
<brobostigon> :)
<shauno> yaknow, I usually don't whine about people using whatever they want, software-wise.  but "/usr/bin/python^M: bad interpreter"  is a good sign someone's Doing It Wrongâ¢
<directhex> shauno, dos2unix
<shauno> directhex: oddly, that doesn't seem to be in lucid.  so tr it is :/
<directhex> shauno, tofrodos.
<directhex> "fromdos" command
<shauno> huh, funky
<shauno> apparently pre-lucid that was linked from dos2unix, after lucid dos2unix is it's own package, so the command 'dos2unix' disappears for a single release
<shauno> oh well.  tr's everywhere, so may as well learn to use it :)
<shauno> (after a false start because I didn't realise it uses octal?)
<phonex01>  im using ubuntu 10.10 and virtualbox so i wanna add a com port to my virtual machine
<phonex01> what to do  ?
<phonex01> im using win xp in the virtual machine
<phonex01> i can see serial port in linux as ttyUSB4 coz i use usb converter
<phonex01> anyone hear me !
<AlanBell> hi
<directhex> phonex01, you want to pass through a device in virtualbox?
<directhex> phonex01, which version of virtualbox?
<phonex01> 3.2.8
<phonex01> version 3.2.8
<AlanBell> is that the open source edition, or the Virtualbox.org/sun/oracle one?
<phonex01> ya im using usb serial converter and i can see it in ubuntu as ttyUSB4
<directhex> http://www.howtoforge.com/virtualbox-2-how-to-pass-through-usb-devices-to-guests-on-an-ubuntu-8.10-host doesn't work?
<phonex01> i saw all of these stuff !
<phonex01> nothing help !
<phonex01> i can not even see USB Tab !
<phonex01> how can i update vitual box to virtual box PUEL
<directhex> hm
<directhex> there's no usb tab in 3.2.8 ose. it might be a feature of 4, or the sun virtualbox
<phonex01> so ?
<directhex> oh, but you can pass through a serial device
 * brobostigon haz chocolate bar, :)
<phonex01> how ?
<directhex> machine settings, serial ports, enable serial port, port mode host device, port path /dev/ttyUSB4
<phonex01> i went to serial tab and i added a host device
<phonex01> i did that
<phonex01> but i can not see it when run windows
<AlanBell> like this http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/Screenshot.png
<phonex01> i did the same
<phonex01> but i cant not see it with devices when i run windows !
<directhex> AlanBell, that's sun vbox, with the usb menu?
<ali1234> directhex: OSE doesn't support USB passthrough - and if you install the not-free version, there's a bug with file permissions that you have to fix before it works (or there was last time i tried it)
<phonex01> no
<directhex> don't ask me, i use kvm
<phonex01> so what now
<shauno> fwiw I have sun's 3.1.6, and there's a usb tab, so ose's the gotcha, not 4.x
<phonex01> drop my laptop through the window ?
<directhex> phonex01, that sounds like a completely sensible thing to do
<ali1234> phonex01: did you install the guest drivers?
<phonex01> you guest additions ?
<phonex01> mean *
<ali1234> yes
<phonex01> ya i did that
<ali1234> and do they match the virtualbox version?
<phonex01> yes !
<AlanBell> directhex: yeah, Oracle virtualbox 4.0.4 r70112
<phonex01> i installed them normally
<phonex01> no it is 3.2.8
<phonex01> from ubuntu repositers
<AlanBell> sure, 4.0.4 is the one I took the screenshot in
<ali1234> you have to install them inside the guest OS
<phonex01> i told you i did
<phonex01> guest additions is installed
<AlanBell> I don't think serial is a feature of the guest additions ali1234
<directhex> i agree
<directhex> it's a basic windows thing
<ali1234> ok, dunno then
<phonex01> plz guys
<directhex> phonex01, is the serial device listed in windows device manager?
<phonex01> i have to use ICD2 kit programmer !
<phonex01> no it is not
<AlanBell> have you tried with a linux guest?
<phonex01> i see just LPT1 !
<AlanBell> just a live CD would do
<directhex> phonex01, and if you add new device?
<phonex01> wait i will try
<phonex01> how to add new device ?
<phonex01> i dont even see anything need drivers
<directhex> phonex01, which windows?
<phonex01> xp
<phonex01> sp3
<phonex01> i can see LPT1 !! even i dont need it !
<directhex> phonex01, see it where?
<phonex01> Port(Com,LPT) Tab
<phonex01> i just see LPT1
<directhex> odd, that doesn't sound familiar. tab in what?
<phonex01> ok i see LPT1
<phonex01> on device manager
<phonex01> like that " Printer Port LPT1 "
<popey> chickens
<AlanBell> yes
<popey> :)
<directhex> oh, right, yeah.
<phonex01> so i expect COM1 or somthing like that !
<phonex01> but i cant see it
<directhex> start, control panel, printers and other hardware, add device
<phonex01> ok
 * popey wonders if he's in the wrong channel
<directhex> bottom option, "add new hardware device"
<directhex> popey, clearly
<phonex01> add mardware wizerd ?
<phonex01> sorry hardware wizered ?
<directhex> phonex01, y'know, it'd likely be much quicker/easier to install sun virtualbox rather than ose, and pass through the usb device.
<directhex> phonex01, yes, hardware wizard.
<phonex01> then waht ?
<phonex01> there is two options
<phonex01> the first one said " i have connect the device
<phonex01> somthing like that
<popey> I though there was only one version of virtualbox now
<directhex> that one.
<popey> and you just add the extras
<phonex01> so whats next ?
<phonex01> i have the devices list
<directhex> bottom option to add a device not on the list
<phonex01> ok
<directhex> i can;t believe i'm supporting a decade-old non-free os i haven't run myself for about 4 years
<directhex> free of charge
<phonex01> ok then ?
<AlanBell> popey: there is now, but this is the one in the repos
<phonex01> search for
<phonex01> or
<phonex01> installed manuly
<phonex01> hi directhex
<phonex01> whats next ?
<directhex> phonex01, manually. i think. i'm guessing!
<popey> AlanBell: I have never used the one in the repo
<phonex01> hahaha ok
<phonex01> i have long night !
<popey> 1) uninstall virtualbox
<popey> 2) go to virtualbox.org, install their version
<popey> 3) install extras on that site too
<popey> 4) pass through usb device to guest OS
<popey> 5) win
<phonex01> ok
<phonex01> i will do that popy
<popey> in my opinion :)
<AlanBell> and that won't damage your guest machine
<livingdaylight> haro
<phonex01> i will copy my gust machine harddisk
<popey> herro!
<brobostigon> evening livingdaylight
<popey> bah
 * popey goes back to work
<shauno> you shouldn't have to touch your guest machine; it's expecting to find it right where it is
<bigcalm> Work?
<livingdaylight> guys, I launched VB and was told that there was an update to v4. but when I tried to install said .deb file i got error message of conflict? anyone?
<phonex01> just for safety  !
<livingdaylight> evening indeed brobostigon
<livingdaylight> *VB = virtual box
<directhex> ffs why do people keep using virtualbox? -_-
<phonex01> i use it for some PIC programmer softwares
<shauno> because it's free & easy
<phonex01> like MPlab !
<AlanBell> does that not run on Linux?
<phonex01> no
<directhex> shauno, unlike, say, kvm?
<phonex01> they dont have a version for linux
<phonex01> and i dont like to use Wine
<phonex01> so thats it !
<shauno> directhex: I've not looked into what it'd take to move a kvm guest to my mac.  or my xp machine at work
<HazRPG> hmm, composing music from scratch is hard - specially when you have to define the instruments yourself!
<HazRPG> seemed so much easier on other programs that give you samples to work with lol
<phonex01> oh i hope one day there will be a version from protuos simulator for ubuntu
<phonex01> this will be amazing
<ali1234> HazRPG: i reccomend this series of articles: http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/allsynthsecrets.htm
<phonex01> im hungryyyyyyy
<phonex01> and i feel coldddddd
<AlanBell> !info piklab
<lubotu3> piklab (source: piklab): IDE for PIC-microcontroller development. In component universe, is extra. Version 0.15.7-1ubuntu1 (maverick), package size 3946 kB, installed size 32592 kB
<phonex01> it is about snowing here
<phonex01> oh good news
<phonex01> wait
<livingdaylight> http://img13.imageshack.us/i/screenshotpackageinstal.png/ if anyone cares to see error message
<phonex01> <lubotu3> can i use it with ICD2 kit
<HazRPG> ali1234: thanks :)
<ali1234> HazRPG: it's mainly about analogue synths but the theory is still useful
<HazRPG> livingdaylight: looks like you'll have to remove virtualbox-3.2 first before you can install 4.0
<ali1234> phonex01: yes you can
<phonex01> no way
<AlanBell> phonex01: http://piklab.sourceforge.net/
<phonex01> are you serious ?
<ali1234> yes way
<livingdaylight> HazRPG, oh, I get you... I thought this was an update which would take care of that
<HazRPG> ali1234: hmm, that page doesn't seem to load up
<phonex01> wowowow
<HazRPG> livingdaylight: some do, but some don't - it think it depends on its dependencies with other libraries
<AlanBell> the one in maverick is two point releases behind the latest version
<HazRPG> livingdaylight: if you remove 3.2, your settings should still be intact though
<livingdaylight> HazRPG, trying to figure out how to remove it. Ubuntu software doesn't seem to 'see' it
<HazRPG> haha, someone covered freestyler on the c64! xD
<HazRPG> love that tune :)
<directhex> livingdaylight, dpkg --purge
<livingdaylight> directhex, and how do I find where it is installed?
<HazRPG> livingdaylight: type that into terminal ;)
<directhex> livingdaylight, it's a package. dpkg --purge virtualbox-3.2
<livingdaylight> directhex, thx... I thought one had to cd into relevant file first
<livingdaylight> shall I look for relevant .hidden files too?
<HazRPG> livingdaylight: another way of doing it is going into System -> Admin -> Synaptic Package Manager
<HazRPG> that's a gui app that will show you all packages you have installed, plus the ones you can grab from the repo
<livingdaylight> HazRPG, of course! thx, for some reason I got used to using Ubuntu software
<HazRPG> livingdaylight: yeah ubuntu software centre can be quite useful
<HazRPG> ali1234: that site seems to hate me :/
<livingdaylight> gonna reboot
<ali1234> HazRPG: try this http://www.google.com/search?q=sound+on+sound+synth+secrets
<ali1234> they might have some kind of strange paywall system
<cbx33> hey guys
<cbx33> howz it going
<HazRPG> yeah, its just not working at all (even typing out soundonsound.com)
<HazRPG> must be a DNS issue on my side
<HazRPG> isup.me says its up, so yeah must be a DNS issue
<AlanBell> what are some catchphrases from TV quiz shows?
<TheOpenSourcerer> "You stupid boy!"
<DJones> AlanBell: Give me a number
<AlanBell> quiz shows!
<ging> 7
<TheOpenSourcerer> "Oooh you are awful... But I like you!"
<DJones> AlanBell: "Can I have a P Please Bob?"
<AlanBell> DJones has got the idea
<TheOpenSourcerer> "You'll like this. . . Not a lot, but you'll like it".
<DJones> http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/features/3112309/The-UKs-favourite-quiz-catchprases.html
<AlanBell> perfect DJones, thanks
<TheOpenSourcerer> "final answer?"
 * DJones bookmarks page ready for ubuntu-uk quiz
<TheOpenSourcerer> "pass"
<TheOpenSourcerer> "I've started so I'll finish"
<AlanBell> DJones: I am not making a quiz of it (although you can) just writing a blog post
<TheOpenSourcerer> ...
<DJones> Ah well, worth a try anyway
<livingdaylight> yo
<daubers> One from the bottom and two from the top please carol
 * DJones settles down to watch The Lost Boys with a bottle of pear cider
<popey> http://ubuntuone.com/p/cuv/
<popey> that looks _awesome_
<jgjones_> Nice to see you.....
<AlanBell> wow
<jgjones_> bah why should the kids have all the fun :)
<daubers> RIght, how do I kill the u1sync daemon
<daubers> It's continously stop/starting
<daubers> Can't kill it as it's process keeps reappearing
<Laney> did minecraft.net die :(
<daubers> \o/
<daubers> Finally killed the stupid thing
<daubers> load average: 1.83, 2.80, 2.27
<daubers> stupid ubuntu one
<bigcalm> Laney: that is always likely
<Laney> argh
<bigcalm> Works for me
<Laney> YAY its back
<bigcalm> And another addict gets their fix
<Laney> building an underground tree farm
<Laney> simple pleasures
<Laney> Sucks that a game I paid for relies on a crappy server to play on a server I host myself
 * Laney hmph
<shauno> if the server isn't public, just set online-mode=false in the server.properties file, and you'll be able to connect with or without mc.net
<shauno> it's apparently only discouraged for public servers because it means there's zero validation the client is who they claim they are
<shauno> (which sounds like a gaping hole waiting to happen imho, but there ya go)
<Azelphur> ^ meaning that anyone can empty your inventory
<Azelphur> also minecraft is up now
<Azelphur> my server is going well :D
<shauno> yeah.  or log in as a name they know belongs to an op ..
<Azelphur> indeed
<bigcalm> Not sure why you'd run a server if you were the only person to connect
<Azelphur> I'm not the only person :o, http://game.azelphur.com/minecraft-map
<Azelphur> maps live btw :D
<bigcalm> I was thinking aloud, not pointing the finger
<shauno> not public doesn't have to mean not shared :)
<Azelphur> oh :)
 * brobostigon returns
<shauno> that said, I've resorted to running a server locally so when the client dies, I don't log back in in the middle of a brick wall
<Chat7635> m
<zleap> hi
<brobostigon> cyanogenmod.com is now ipv6, :)
<lloowen> HI all :) I wanted to incorporate the 'inotifywait' command into a script, but I don't have it on my Ubuntu. What is the package name for this command? Thanks in advance.
<bigcalm> iain@revo:~$ inotifywait
<bigcalm> The program 'inotifywait' is currently not installed.  You can install it by typing:
<bigcalm> sudo apt-get install inotify-tools
<lloowen> thanks
<bigcalm> Welcome
<andylockran> howdy
<andylockran> how's things dude and dudettes ?
<zleap> good thanks
<brobostigon> nos da, sleep well.
<andylockran> wahey
<andylockran> ubuntu in VirtualBox on my mac
<andylockran> things are looking up :)
<andylockran> anyone know how to page up/down using a mac keyboard on ubuntu...
<Ng> andylockran: probably Fn and the cursor keys
<andylockran> perfect
<andylockran> it was the simplest way of getting terminator on my mac
<andylockran> Ng: it's become an absolutely must-have for me
<andylockran> Ng: Do you think it would be difficult to port it to OSX?
<Ng> \o/
<Ng> andylockran: to make it a properly native app? hard I imagine, it would be a pretty full rewrite. porting it as a gtk2 app? unknown. gtk2 ports exist for things like banshee. python is already in osx, but the real killer would be vte
<andylockran> vte - is that terminal emulator?
<Ng> yeah
<Ng> it must be fairly portable and at least OSX is a unix
<andylockran> It's probably not a sensible project for a programming n00b like myself - but I'll definitely take a look at it
<andylockran> best terminal app I've used by far - especially with larger screens it becomes uncannily handy
<Ng> I wish it was better, but it's been more than sufficient for my needs for quite some time, so the motivation to polish it further is difficult to find
<Ng> I'd hope that someone else would be inspired to push it further, but for now people seem happy enough ;)
<andylockran> It's just become invaluable for me.. not a massive fan of tabs and rarely rememeber which one I was on
<Ng> if I'd stuck to my guns, we'd have never put tabs into it at all - it exists precisely because I hate tabs for terminals ;)
<andylockran> so just launch a new window with either ctrl-o or ctrl-e depending on which suits best, then ctrl-x it to work on it
<Ng> indeed :)
<andylockran> then ctrl-x it again to get the 'dashboard' mode of all the terminals you need
<andylockran> what more could a (wo)man need.
<andylockran> ctrl-z is also useful for demoing
<Ng> yep
<andylockran> as a quarter screen zoomed in tends to work out when when scaled :)
<andylockran> oops
<andylockran> byobu just died during my upgrade.
<andylockran> uncleverly it also killed the upgrade ;)
<andylockran> right - off to bed... Nottingham tomorrow
<hamitron> :)
 * hamitron is looking forward to his parts arriving 1 day earlier than planned
<HazRPG> woo!
<HazRPG> chinese + being human on iplayer = winner!
<hamitron> chinese are human? ;)
<HazRPG> er... yes
<shauno> a bit late, but re terminator on mac; if you're happy to install X on the mac, instead of going native, it's probably a very straightforward build
<shauno> somewhere around 2.2 I had the entire gnome-desktop (minus evo .. argh) built & working
<HazRPG> shauno: nice
<shauno> oh dear.  99% on /
<shauno> looks like springcleaning comes early
<jgjones> Just wondering....anyone got a WP7 phone?
<AlanBell> do you think anyone will admit to it?
<directhex> AlanBell, i think it's an interesting, but crippled, platform
<HazRPG> shauno: 99%??
<directhex> AlanBell, i'd love to be able to review it on its merits... but its lockdown makes such a review impossible
<HazRPG> shauno: is that all the applications you have installed
<HazRPG> ah... wait, your on Mac
<directhex> you're
<shauno> no, $HOME is the glutton :)
<HazRPG> how much have you given /
<shauno> about 450G
<HazRPG> woah, and you've filled up 99% of it :o!
<shauno> $ du -sh ~
<shauno> 361G	/Users/soneil
 * hamitron would consider a WP7 phone
<shauno> apparently I'm messy :)
<hamitron> anyone got any free sand?
<hamitron> err, wrong chan
<HazRPG> hamitron: er, what?
<HazRPG> hamitron: I'm intrigued now! :P
<hamitron> minecraft
<hamitron> ;)
<HazRPG> ah
<HazRPG> oh... :(
<HazRPG> thought you were going to say you were building sandcastles... or trying to make glass irl...
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> I have more sand irl than in minecraft atm
#ubuntu-uk 2011-03-10
<shauno> well, that was easy enough.  80G that's gone and another 65G that's being shifted off to external.  should keep me out of trouble until I can get a new laptop
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> it must be amazing how much time is spent sorting data, because of all the junk we have
<hamitron> if you added up the time all of us take, then consider what could be done if putting that to some productive use
<zleap> yeah
<shauno> like ... playing minecraft?   ;)
<zleap> i spend ages sorting through the piles of rubbish in this room that gets generated as a result of using computers
<zleap> print outs, paper, and other stuff
<shauno> to be honest, I don't want to be productive 11 minutes after midnight
<hamitron> exactly shauno
<hamitron> ;)
<hamitron> tbh, I consider something like minecraft to be more productive than sorting crap
<hamitron> encourages team work :D
<zleap> yeah but this crap just piles up
<zleap> it needs to be sorted, not just shifted out of sight which I am good at doing
<HazRPG> argh!
<zleap> sup
<HazRPG> don't ya just hate a "until next week" moment
<zleap> er yeah
<HazRPG> so frustrating
<HazRPG> I knew there was a reason I only ever watched old shows
<HazRPG> zleap: I was watching being human
<zleap> ah
<HazRPG> technically it was an old(ish) show, they've just relived it recently
<ZoeR> 'ello all
<HazRPG> ZoeR: hi, welcome back :)
<ZoeR> Thanks, HazRPG
 * ZoeR quite likes it here. :)
<HazRPG> as I do :)
<HazRPG> ZoeR: how's your ubuntu install going?
<ZoeR> Pretty well, thanks. I'm loving it so far.
<HazRPG> good good :)
<ZoeR> I have to admit that it's been over a year since I last had Linux installed because I needed to use the computer for Photoshop work and I didn't have the space for a dual boot. It's good to have it back.
<HazRPG> ZoeR: I find GIMP is a good replacement for Photoshop really :)
<ZoeR> I found it difficult to get used to the change in layout and the fact that I had to click on the tool box, then click on the tool I wanted, then click on the image before I could use the tool was very annoying
<HazRPG> Picasa 3 has been built up to work on linux too, which is good if your just doing simple photo editing
<ZoeR> Not really. I'm a cartoonist.
<HazRPG> ah
<ZoeR> Yeah
<HazRPG> hmm, I didn't think you had to click on tool then click on image before use...
<HazRPG> yeah, just fiddling around now... and seems you don't have to do that
<HazRPG> you can just use it straight away
<ZoeR> Really?
<HazRPG> yeah
<ZoeR> The version of Gimp I had didn't work like that.
<ZoeR> I had to click between windows, which was very annoying
<ZoeR> Maybe it has been changed. I'll have to look into it.
<HazRPG> oh, if you mean pictures are in their own window - then yeah
<HazRPG> that hasn't changed, however you can just use the tool straight away
<shauno> I get that with gimp on the mac.  the first click in the tool palette brings focus to that window, the second actually does what you thought the first would
<ZoeR> That's the problem I was having, shauno
<shauno> in my particular case, it's a side-effect of quartz-wm being dumb; the window manager, not gimp
<ZoeR> I think Photoshop got around that by acting like everything was in the same window
<shauno> it'll act like everything else when you use it on a platform where it's "at home" :)
<ZoeR> I'll give it another try, then. :)
<HazRPG> hmm, I know GIMP plays funny inside Windows sometimes, but its fine inside ubuntu or any other linux distro :)
<shauno> (random aside, I'm really disappointed there's not a better option than gimp by now.)
<HazRPG> I guess the only thing GIMP doesn't do is being able to draw your own shapes - but there are ways around that (sort of)
<ZoeR> What do you mean by 'draw your own shapes'?
<HazRPG> shauno: I think its just the time it takes to make such applications, I mean there isn't really an alternative to blender for example (and that has a steep learning curve if your use to other tools)
<shauno> I don't.
<HazRPG> ZoeR: one think I like with Photoshop is that you can just start with a blank canvas, and start making stuff using shape tools (square, etc) and then filter them, twist them around etc
<directhex> boing
<shauno> I use an app called pixelmator, which is incredibly young, and already beats the gimp for everything but scriptability
<HazRPG> thing* not think
<ZoeR> Ah, right. Yeah Photoshop is good for shapes like that.
<HazRPG> yeah
<HazRPG> in gimp, to do the same effect you have to grab a section of the screen and then fill it with colour, then you can manipulate it - so takes a bit longer then just dragging a shape
<HazRPG> oooh, one thing I should note... Wine works a lot better than it did a year ago, more windows applications *just work* now without fiddling
<HazRPG> however I haven't tested photoshop CS3 and above
<HazRPG> older than CS3 works though
<HazRPG> the new custom interface they've done just seems to scramble around, or not display at all - which is strange
<HazRPG> shauno: ah dude, I just thought... hasn't inkscape been done to try and do things that gimp can't?
<shauno> sorta.  gimp is raster-based, inkscape is vector-based
<ZoeR> Well, I just tried out Gimp and it's acting like Photoshop does in terms of tool selection, which is good.
<HazRPG> ZoeR: thought it did :)
<ZoeR> On the other hand, it looks like I've got my weekend sorted now because Ubuntu doesn't like my graphics tablet
<HazRPG> shauno: oh, well yeah inkscape is more similar to illustrator
<ZoeR> It is only registering mouse movement if I'm pressing the pen to the tablet, which is fine for drawing lines but not good for moving the pen from place to place.
<ZoeR> I think that's probably a config issue though
<HazRPG> ZoeR: which tablet is it?
<shauno> it'd be interesting if they could mate the two, and then get someone to completely ditch gimp's UI and start again.  not bandaid it.  fix it.
<ZoeR> Some generic thing from Nisis
<ZoeR> Erk. It's almost 1am. I should probably get some work done.
<HazRPG> ZoeR: this might interest you: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/AiptekTablet
<HazRPG> ZoeR: might help fix your tablet issue ;)
<ZoeR> Oooh. Thanks! :D
 * ZoeR bookmarks that page to come back to later.
<HazRPG> hopefully its not overly complicated
<ZoeR> It can't be more complicated than compiling my own kernel
<ZoeR> Can it?
 * ZoeR found that really tricky the first few times
<HazRPG> nah, much simpler than that :)
<ZoeR> I always get worried when trying out a new kernel. I can't help thinking I'll have left out something fundamental, like keyboard support. Or memory.
<HazRPG> just reading through that page, in the examples it says its written the product ID as a generic one but might be better for putting your own in
<HazRPG> I'm guessing the tablet is plugged via USB, if so just type in "lsusb"
<shauno> I always had the opposite problem.  trying to include so much in the kernel that it wouldn't fit on a floppy :/
<hamitron> it fits on a floppy now? ;)
<shauno> no idea, it's been quite a while since I had to do that :)
<HazRPG> look for your tablet in the list, and grab the product ID from that... it'll output it in this form: Bus xxx Device yyy: ID iiii:jjjj <device name>
<HazRPG> the jjjj is the product ID, and iiii is the vendor ID
<ZoeR> Cool. Thanks.
<hamitron> shauno: I will be trying an older within the next week, see how I can get ubuntu working
<hamitron> older comp*
<HazRPG> hopefully that made sense :)
<HazRPG> don't need to worry about xxx or yyy, that's just where they're connected on your motherboard :)
<shauno> hamitron: used to be you could boot straight from the kernel, without requiring lilo & such.  been a *long* time since I tried it that way tho
<HazRPG> shauno: technically you still can I think :S
<ZoeR> You can boot without lilo?
 * ZoeR didn't know that.
<ZoeR> Shows how much I know, doesn't it? It's always been there while I've been using Linux.
<shauno> a basic mbr (such as what windows used at the time, or the 'mbr' package in debian & ubuntu) just reads the partition table, picks the first partition it finds that's marked bootable, and starts execution from the start of the partition
<shauno> so dd the kernel into the boot partition, and reboot
<HazRPG> ZoeR: Hmm, ubuntu uses GRUB unless you tell it otherwise
<ZoeR> Yeah, I never liked Grub.
<HazRPG> ZoeR: any reason?
<ZoeR> The first distro I used was Red Hat 5.2 and it had Lilo. I understood how its config files worked and Grub worked differently, so I didn't like it.
<directhex> cool kids use elilo
 * ZoeR is the embodiment of They Changed It Now It Sucks
<shauno> grub's a whole lot more powerful, so the extra configuration kinda comes with the territory
<HazRPG> hmm, does lilo let you boot in straight from an iso?
<ZoeR> Not that I recall
<shauno> hah.  you'll have to challenge hamitron for that title :p
<directhex> shauno, the main useful thing about grub is it has a shell, so you can dig yourself out of a hole
<HazRPG> can't say I've ever messed around with lilo other than it being on a fedora liveCD
<ZoeR> But if I challenged hamitron and won, that would change things and then I'd suck!
<directhex> shauno, when lilo goes wrong, you need to chroot into your system to make it boot
<directhex> from a cd or somesuch
<shauno> directhex: I think the biggest point is that grub is fs-aware.  the shell would be useless without that :)
 * ZoeR has experience of lilo going wrong. :(
<ZoeR> It told me I didn't exist and should go away
<HazRPG> hamitron: if your going to install on an old machine, I'd recommend doing it from ubuntu-server and then picking a desktop environment yourself, either that or use the alt-cd and pick recovery mode when after you've installed it - that way you can change the environment, because depending on what your going to put it on Gnome2 might not be the best plan for it
<ZoeR> If I hadn't had an essay to write at the time, I might have laughed at that
<shauno> lilo doesn't go wrong.  it just turns into 'li'.  then sits there staring at you.
<HazRPG> shauno: haha I have actually see that before
<HazRPG> I've seen grub just sit at "grub>" before too though
<shauno> you're meant to.  that's how you fault-find lilo.  you can usually guess the problem from how much of the word 'lilo' it prints out
<HazRPG> shauno: wow, didn't know that
<ZoeR> Yeah, it's a nice error-reporting system but you have to know what it means to use it.
<HazRPG> is it just me, but boot loaders just remind me of disney :/
<HazRPG> grub - lion king
<HazRPG> lilo - lilo and stich
<shauno> no more cryptic than boot beeps
<ZoeR> No, don't say that. Now every time I boot my computer I'll have "circle of life" in my head
<shauno> what do you think the ubuntu logo is :p
<HazRPG> shauno: ah, but boot beeps can vary with system to system - which is frustrating in itself
<ZoeR> I had owned a PC for three years before I worked out that the beeps meant something!
<HazRPG> ZoeR: hehe :P
 * ZoeR thought it was just the sound chip turning on
<shauno> the servers we use at work atm have a row of 4 lights on.  when it boots they're all yellow, then they go green one by one.  it's really no different to lilo printing out one character at each stage
<shauno> simple works :)
<HazRPG> ZoeR: when I was 12 I assumed it was the computer telling you that things were go to go
<HazRPG> always felt like a PC was like an army wait, awaiting orders all the time
<HazRPG> awaiting*
<HazRPG> man***
<ZoeR> I just noticed the channel topic. Does that mean I just advertised my lack of knowledge to the world?
<ZoeR> "this channel is publicly archived" and all that
 * ZoeR feels daft now
<HazRPG> ZoeR: I wouldn't worry, should see some of the stuff I come out with sometimes
<ZoeR> I'll make a note to look later.
<ZoeR> :)
<HazRPG> ZoeR: haha
<HazRPG> *blushes*
<hamitron> HazRPG: I am going to use the mini.iso
<HazRPG> hamitron: didn't realise there was one!
<shauno> not slating grub mind.  was just trying to put some kinda timescale to how long it's been since I had to build a kernel
<HazRPG> shauno: I figured that :P
<HazRPG> gotta admit, grub has come a long wait since its inception
<HazRPG> way*
<HazRPG> argh, what's with my typing
 * hamitron has had less problems with lilo
<shauno> it's handy enough that I have a CD that just has grub on.  'nuff said
<HazRPG> shauno: heh, I have it on a multi-boot pen drive
<HazRPG> ironically, grub boots up from lilo
<shauno> not syslinux?
<ZoeR> Heh. Just got a text message saying "Yesterday was International Women Eating Pancakes Day"
<directhex> isolinux!
<shauno> lol, sorry
<HazRPG> shauno: hmm, well its picked from a list - and looks lilo coloured, always assumed it was lilo
<shauno> stong chance it's not.  lilo never got on well with CDs
<hamitron> I remember hating the gui lilo started to provide
<shauno> (lilo just dies if anything gets relocated.  that doesn't go down well with removable drives)
<HazRPG> hamitron: hmm, that reminds me, keep meaning to do some mods to my grub-loader
<hamitron> grub always breaks with me, and I not even tried grub2
<hamitron> well, tweaking anyway
<HazRPG> hmm, you not running 10.10?
<HazRPG> or even 10.04
<hamitron> no
<hamitron> I have 10.04 on a test machine
<HazRPG> hamitron: you seriously do hate change don't you :P
<hamitron> I just expect hardware to work with my OS
<hamitron> ;/
<hamitron> I upgraded all my old machines to a cheap batch of tnt2 cards
<hamitron> and the new xorg won't work with old nvidia drivers
<hamitron> so just waiting
<HazRPG> yeah, but not updating one's software or even O/S related stuff ... is just leaving themselves prune to attacks (not that I'm paranoid or anything, he says looking over his shoulder)
<hamitron> I get security updates for another month
<hamitron> ;/
<ZoeR> I have to admit that Nvidia drivers on Linux are annoying. I hate having to tweak my display configs just to stop getting a headache when I boot the computer.
<HazRPG> that might be true, but older stuff only supports software up to a certain version
<hamitron> I will be upgrading to 10.04 with open source drivers
<HazRPG> I recall pidgin not allowing me to log into MSN because they're changed their protocol, and the pidgin in the repo wasn't updated for over 7 months
<ZoeR> Especially when the system thinks everything is fine and will tell you this while the monitor is fizzing
<directhex> i use fglrx :x
<hamitron> and moving a few machines back to XP
<HazRPG> hamitron: :o
<HazRPG> directhex: is that the open-source nvidia drivers?
<directhex> HazRPG, the closed-source ati driver
<ZoeR> Well if you're going to use Windows, XP is the version to go with. It's the nicest of the lot.
<HazRPG> ZoeR: heh, computers can do some strange things sometimes
<hamitron> HazRPG: that is why I think it is bad how some projects like xorg just advance so fast
<HazRPG> my favourite error message of all time is "to continue press any key" and people getting confused as to where the any key is
<ZoeR> HazRPG: Yeah, don't I know it.
<hamitron> :)
<directhex> xp feels like what it is: a decade-old os to compete with suse 7.3
<ZoeR> Cue the old "keyboard missing, press any key to continue" jokes
<shauno> *F1 to continue
<hamitron> directhex: but it works, ubuntu doesn't have drivers for it in the newer version
<HazRPG> ZoeR: haha that would be my favourite bios message
<ZoeR> XP is okay. You can cut out the superfluous bumph, kill the teletubby GUI and get it to run fairly well.
<HazRPG> shauno: it can vary from bios to bios
<shauno> it kinda makes sense.  "I can't find the keyboard; show me where it is"
<hamitron> linux used to be a way to recycle an old machine, but now it seems to drop support for hardware faster than MS OS
<directhex> hamitron, for TNT2?
<hamitron> yes
<hamitron> and geforce 2
<directhex> hamitron, drv_nv still supports TNT2
<HazRPG> shauno: that would be a better message then asking you to press F1
<hamitron> directhex: with opengl?
<shauno> HazRPG: nah, too ambiguous.  you'd get some farmer waving the keyboard at the computer
<directhex> hamitron, you want nvidia's proprietary driver on a tnt2?
<hamitron> yes
<ZoeR> "show me where it is" would just have the computer illiterate shaking their keyboards at the monitor, shouting "here it is, damnit! Look! Look!"
<HazRPG> shauno: xD!!!
<ZoeR> shauno: snap!
<HazRPG> shauno: I actually have that image in my head now!
<hamitron> therefore I need X.org 7.3 or earlier
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> I did look into CentOS, but it is compiled for i686
<shauno> ?  what's the target machine
<HazRPG> "we've installed voice recognition software on your computer... it make take a while to get the pitch right, but it'll be fine go right ahead!"
<HazRPG> "hello computer"
<HazRPG> i386 I think he said the other day
<hamitron> shauno: i586
<directhex> hamitron, you need a 71.xx driver, which nvidia haven't bothered updating?
<HazRPG> ah bums, i586 even
<hamitron> they update for new kernels
<hamitron> but to support the new X.org would require a re-write
 * HazRPG has an urge to crack out the IT crowd DVD's now
<hamitron> they did re-write a lot of 96.xx specially
<shauno> hamitron: seriously?  I think 586 maxes out around 233-300 ?
<hamitron> 550mhz
<hamitron> ;/
<hamitron> more in fact
<HazRPG> hamitron: turbo button ;)
<hamitron> I have 3 machines with 850mhz
<directhex> 586? noooo
 * HazRPG misses the days of turbo buttons
<hamitron> VIA C3 cpu
<directhex> oh... via
<hamitron> AMD Geode
<shauno> ugh
<directhex> those are technically cpus. technically
<directhex> ish
<directhex> give or take
<shauno> less give, more take
<hamitron> just missing some new instructions ;)
<directhex> slightly slower than a minecraft cpu running in an emulator on a mobile phone
<hamitron> cheap or free, are most my comps :)
<HazRPG> ZoeR: we don't always just talk computers in here btw, before we scare you off :P
<shauno> atleast the geode is meant to be low power
<hamitron> the VIA is
<hamitron> ;/
<shauno> so it's not going to cost you more in utility bills than it does in time wasted waiting for it to do something
<ZoeR> HazRPG: I got my first computer when I was four. Talking about computers is fine with me. :)
<hamitron> shauno: it is true it would be silly setting intensive tasks on these cpu
<hamitron> :)
<directhex> i tested a via system once
<directhex> 1ghz c7
<directhex> i wrote it off as an absolute waste of time and money
<hamitron> c7 was a beast compared to the c3
<directhex> yes
<hamitron> hehe
<shauno> my problem with via (and cyrix) is that they complete redefine what 'intensive' is
<directhex> and c7 was beyond unusably awful
<hamitron> I use all c3 machines fine
<hamitron> with 256mb ram
<HazRPG> ZoeR: wow, lucky - I didn't get my own computer till I was 8-10... I mainly hijacked my mum's when she wasn't trying to do essays, half the time she preferred using a type-writer or writing by hand anyways
<shauno> you should try a gumstix
<shauno> runs from an AA, and possibly more powerful :)
<hamitron> tbh, they are giving me less of a headache than these old nvidia cards
<ZoeR> My parents thought it would be a good idea to get my sister an I a computer because they were going to be "the next big thing". This was back in 1984 so I suppose they were ahead of their time in thinking that. I think they regretted it though, given the amount of time I spent on it.
<hamitron> shauno: I will just use something that works on these machines, buying something to replace them is not really recycling :/
<directhex> best way to explain c7 is with how well it handles playing a video. http://img.hexus.net/v2/motherboards/via/pico/dvdrip-h264-big.jpg
<hamitron> ffs
<hamitron> you don't play video
<hamitron> ;/
<hamitron> they play mp3 fine
<shauno> hamitron: if I didn't think the shipping would break the bank, I'd donate you my footrest
<hamitron> footrest?
<shauno> p4 celeron, somewhere around 2.3GHz I think
<shauno> not much use as a computer, so I use it as a foot rest
<hamitron> haha
<hamitron> but they are useful...
<HazRPG> ZoeR: my dad kept catching me sneak out his Sharp MZ-721 to play games, that he eventually just gave me it since he never used it himself - he thought it was pointless because it barely did anything (was built in the 70's)
<hamitron> allt his talk of c64 in here... and all i586 are faster
<hamitron> all this*
<directhex> and every via mhz is a crap mhz
<HazRPG> still can't believe that thing actually works too
<HazRPG> still actually works*
<directhex> i clocked an amd64 at 1ghz, and compared to a 1ghz c7... http://img.hexus.net/v2/motherboards/via/pico/lametimes.jpg
<shauno> that's different.  a c64 is actually a different beast.
<ZoeR> I think I remember the MZ-721. As I recall, a friend had one.
<shauno> your via is just another x86.  just 20 years slower than the rest of them
<hamitron> shauno: but still a machine that can be played with
<HazRPG> ZoeR: one of these: http://pc-museum.com/gallery/rcm-026.jpg ?
<hamitron> I know my VIA C3 850mhz is about equal to my AMD K6-2 450mhz, that performs like a p2 266mhz
<hamitron> ;)
<shauno> that's what makes me sad.  it'd atleast make sense if it was something that was useful when it was new
<hamitron> they were
<HazRPG> ironically, they were all marked as MZ-700's but on the bottom they had either MZ-711, 721 or 731 - there wasn't actually a MZ-700 (it was more just a generic name for it)
<hamitron> low power and fine for basic use
<ZoeR> HazRPG: Yeah, that looks like the bunny! We used to play some weird game on it where a guy had to steal his clothes back off aliens. 'Streaker' or something, I think.
<hamitron> I use them in jukebox systems
<HazRPG> hamitron, I must agree with shauno... the c64 is a complete different kettle of fish!
<HazRPG> ZoeR: haha, yeah I remember that one :P
<directhex> hamitron, i have an 800mhz ARM here you might like...
<hamitron> directhex: I would like an arm sometime :)
<shauno> now that would be interesting
<ZoeR> HazRPG: I eventually tracked down a copy for my Amstrad CPC but it wasn't worth the effort. By the time I got a copy for myself, it had lost its appeal.
<hamitron> I have a 300mhz sparq...
<HazRPG> ZoeR: you can actually download an emulator for the MZ-700 series straight into ubuntu :)
<hamitron> \o/
<shauno> a pizza box?
<HazRPG> and all the games and software are hosted on here legally: http://www.sharpmz.org/index.html
<ZoeR> HazRPG: I'd better not. I'll never get any work done!
<directhex> funny thing is, via c7 is actually terrible for efficiency
<HazRPG> ZoeR: hehe, much like my c64 addiction I've got going on at the moment (oops!)
<ZoeR> :)
<hamitron> I never saw the point of the c7
<hamitron> it was trying to be powerful for media, and failed
<directhex> a 1ghz c7 is 9W
<directhex> a 1.06ghz core 2 duo is 10W
<ZoeR> HazRPG: I never had much time for the C64. People kept telling me it was superior to the CPC but I loved my Arnold too much to listen. :)
<shauno> I had a cpc :/
<hamitron> directhex: I got my c3 on a motherboard for 20 quid each, brand new
<HazRPG> ZoeR: heh, yeah I was replaying some of the games on the MZ-700's on different machines which had been upgraded with better graphics and sounds - and didn't seem as good as the first time round
<directhex> ZoeR, we had the welshest of home computers
<shauno> drove me nuts because I had a cpc464, and the only person I knew with one had a 646.  so all his games were on disks, mine were on tapes.  booo.
<hamitron> I am considering making a comp sometime
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> using a fpga
<HazRPG> ZoeR: see, I didn't get the craze back then either, but then again I would never have gotten one either way (parents thought I wouldn't do anything if all I did was play games all day long)
 * ZoeR had a CPC464 which was chip-swapped with a 6128 CPU. It was great
<directhex> to what end?
<ZoeR> I still have it, in fact
<shauno> mine died of a ketchup overdose
<ZoeR> oops
<HazRPG> ZoeR: nice
<HazRPG> shauno: oopsie!
<shauno> I thought it was a good thing at the time, meant we got a new computer :)
<HazRPG> shauno: sounds like our first set of betamax drives, all my army men and other little toys kept finding their way inside and ruining them apparently
<HazRPG> shauno: parents never did understand why I kept doing it (I was maybe 2 at the time)
<shauno> hah.  I'm the eldest of 5.  we rented tv/vcr so that someone else would fix it
<HazRPG> I have a feeling I kept doing it to hopefully see them show up on the TV - but never worked
<ZoeR> awww
<shauno> apparently the leading cause of vcr death in our house was cheese on toast, not army men
 * ZoeR goes to find her CPC
<HazRPG> shauno: haha
<HazRPG> ZoeR: ooo, if you do, take pictures!
<HazRPG> can't say I know what a CPC actually is *_*
<HazRPG> never mind what one looks like!
<shauno> they really are a silly design.  if you don't want kids playing with it, don't put it 3" off the floor with a letterbox on the front
<HazRPG> shauno: haha, very true!
<shauno> cpc was an ugly bugger.  the keyboard was so ugly, that XP may have derived some inspiration from it
<HazRPG> shauno: my parents eventually learned it was better to place balance the thing on top of the TV (thankfully had a flat top) that way I couldn't ruin any more betamax or vhs drives
<ZoeR> The CPC was lovely
<shauno> never had betamax, or top-loaders.  my parents worked for a living :p
 * ZoeR cuddles her CPC
<HazRPG> shauno: hey! so did mine!
<HazRPG> shauno: in fact, main reason I never saw my dad half the time, cos he worked out in saudi
<ZoeR> We had a top-loading VCR that lasted about eight times as long as any other VCR I owned
<shauno> mine worked in the atlantic :)
<HazRPG> shauno: can't say we ever owned a top-loader
<shauno> also!  http://media.pcadvisor.co.uk/cmsdata/news/3206319/amstrad_cpc464.jpg
<HazRPG> shauno: reason we had betamax was because all the tapes in saudi were only betamax form... so every time my dad came back with some for us to watch, we needed something to play them with
<HazRPG> also the reason we had a TV that was both PAL and NTSC at the same time
<shauno> which was exactly what mine looked like, because it was the first computer I had that actually required a monitor, rather than a TV
<ZoeR> http://www.flickr.com/photos/nobmouse/5513235457/ - my CPC, with extras
<shauno> I are not impressed with joystick
<HazRPG> ZoeR: heh, nice guessing you found it then :)
<ZoeR> I didn't include the monitor in my picture because it is in the corner of my office, under a scanner
<HazRPG> shauno: does look a bit dodgy doesn't it :P
<shauno> it's the wrong shape!
<ZoeR> HazRPG: Yeah. It was under a coffee table with my shoes on it
<HazRPG> shauno: also, what's wrong with that design? Beats the design of my fag-stain-looking MZ-700
<shauno> get a speedking.  your life will thank you :D
<ZoeR> shauno: That particular type of joystick is designed to fit in the palm of the hand, with the fire buttons being activated by your index and middle fingers while the stick part is operated with the thumb
<shauno> http://www.thosewerethedays.de/items/joysticks/konix_speedking.jpg
<shauno> konix <3
 * HazRPG tries to work out what the black thing is in the background
<ZoeR> Also, for anyone with small hands, the Cheetah Bug was a godsend.
<HazRPG> ZoeR: interesting (the whole joystick thing)
<ZoeR> HazRPG: Do you mean the shreader?
<HazRPG> ZoeR: ah is that what it is!
<shauno> konix sits in your palm instead of being suckered to the table too.  but worked better with gangly fingers
<ZoeR> Yup
<HazRPG> for some reason I thought it was a computer
<ZoeR> Nope. Not a scanner either, despite what I told my cousin once.
<shauno> goodbye vacation photos?
<HazRPG> man, I'd go get my mz-721, but its at my dad's, would take me half hr to get there and back >_<
<HazRPG> not that it matters, no one really lives there anymore
<ZoeR> shauno: Unfortunately not. He's not as daft as he looks.
 * HazRPG giggles at the fact that someone *may* or *may not* have destroyed some photos/work with that prank
<shauno> you'd think the box of hamster bedding would give it away
<HazRPG> haha
<HazRPG> shauno: see, that would be cruel to say "its the hamster cage"
<HazRPG> although, would be funny someone trying to shove cheese through the top :P
<shauno> well, yes.  pranking your cousin and shredding your hamster are on entirely different scales
<HazRPG> shauno: !! I said nothing of shedding hamsters (for the record) - I'm not that cruel
<shauno> (that should be a little bit sick, except the internet taught me that a gerbil in a blender is a funny thing)
<shauno> our heads will never be the same again.
<HazRPG> shauno: is that the gerbil from the say guy who made supafly by any chance?
<HazRPG> same* not say*
<ZoeR> Well it's 2am and I've done hardly any work today so I'm going to have to say goodnight, everyone.
<ZoeR> Got to put the old nose to the grindstone
<HazRPG> never heard that phrase before
<HazRPG> and also, ... aww your leaving us!
<ZoeR> Which, now I think about it, is a horrible phrase. What use would a ground nose be?
<HazRPG> :(
<ZoeR> Sorry. I'll be back later!
 * ZoeR waves
<HazRPG> \o/ hurray!
<HazRPG> ZoeR|Working: see ya later
<directhex> BEDTIME
<HazRPG> directhex: night dude
<shauno> HazRPG: yes, the supafly guy.  joecartoon :D
<HazRPG> shauno: that's the guy! Couldn't think of his name :P
<shauno> it took me a smoke break to remember :/
<HazRPG> "I'm supafly! Ya wanna know why! 'Cause I did this to yo mama!"
<HazRPG> shauno: *shakes head around* wait you smoke too?
<shauno> guilty
<HazRPG> and it took you only 4 minutes to do? (assuming you went outside)
<HazRPG> shauno: no need to be, I don't feel guilty that I do
<shauno> yes, and yes
<shauno> I've never smoked indoors, so michigan winters taught me to get back inside quick
<HazRPG> just because society has made it look bad (which yeah I know it is...), doesn't mean other things aren't worse for us - yet people aren't judged for that
<HazRPG> I can imagine!
<shauno> nah, I do think it's a fundamentally bad thing.  I just have zero willpower.
<HazRPG> Doesn't it get up to like -20 or more up there!
<shauno> up's kinda the wrong word :)
<HazRPG> shauno: its why its called an addiction :P
<HazRPG> up, being that its to the left and above from where we're currently located
<HazRPG> not the temp. :P
<shauno> in 5 years, I saw -40 once.  pretty awesome
<HazRPG> if that's your idea of awesome, I'd hate to see what your idea of epic is :P
<HazRPG> I joke of course :P
<shauno> had to cycle into work at 6am because my boss couldn't get his car to start.  was a fun morning
<HazRPG> do I sense a hit of sarcasm in that :P
<shauno> no, I actually enjoyed it
<shauno> odd to describe, but interesting being the only one that could get into town; usually I'd be laughed at for being the only one cycling in winter
<shauno> mostly because I bought a silly car that couldn't drive in snow :D
<HazRPG> heh
<shauno> mini's not fantastic for ground-clearance
<HazRPG> wait, that must be a culture shock to go from driving one side of the road, to the... oh wait, I just remember ireland drives on the left too - ignore me
<shauno> ireland's on the same side as the UK
<HazRPG> hmm, must just be my dad's friends car then
<shauno> in the US, I honestly rarely noticed the difference
<shauno> if you're out in the sticks, you'll pull out of a junction onto the wrong side of the road
<HazRPG> I learned to drive on the left originally when I was 14 by my uncles friend, was strange to actually sit my test when I was 18 in the UK
<shauno> if there's any other traffic on the road *at all*, your head figures out the whole concept of oncoming traffic very easily
<shauno> also; http://dl.dropbox.com/u/23042/2352.jpg
<HazRPG> haha
<HazRPG> the grill and the way the lights are formed, it almost looks like its frowning!
<shauno> indeed
<HazRPG> either that, or severally pissed off
<shauno> I have a good one around here somewhere, but I'm not sure where
<shauno> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/23042/mini-chev.jpg   :D
<HazRPG> classic :)
<HazRPG> hard to see mini's like that now
<HazRPG> me and my friends use to play the mini-game
<shauno> punch herbie?
<HazRPG> ... that would be the one
<shauno> we played it with bugs :)
<HazRPG> although we'd shout "mini-bop!"
<HazRPG> I got double-points once for spotting a mini-pickup
<HazRPG> never even thought they'd existed!
<shauno> there's some proper funky minis
<shauno> I'd be torn between a mini-mini, and a moke, for which is oddest
<HazRPG> looked somewhat like this: http://www.toysonics.com/images/D/ppic07.jpg
<shauno> I've seen people take the back seats out and shorten minis.  ends up looking like a clown car
<HazRPG> heh
<shauno> and the moke was actually a production car, looked like "if jeep made minis"
<HazRPG> man, why can't I find subs for this film :( http://www.nesworld.com/movie-lifein8bits.php
<HazRPG> the whole world expects us to translate our stuff, but they won't translate their stuff :(
<HazRPG> shauno: nice
 * HazRPG does a quick google on moke
<shauno> http://www.slowcarclub.com/santapod-07/cool-mini.jpg    that has to be the most awesome 'shortened mini' I've ever seen
<HazRPG> haha winner
<HazRPG> be a b**** in the rain though
<shauno> leaving the roof on isn't really an option :/  ends up like http://www.stupidvehicles.com/images/2009/jan/short_mini.jpg
<HazRPG> xD
<shauno> but they usually leave the windscreen alone, just like any other softtop.  that 'cool-mini' is one step more awesomer
<shauno> (altho I'm still very fond of my "completely unadulterated 1974".  so much so that I haven't sold it yet.  it's still in a shed in michigan)
<shauno> I really should, it's costing me $150/month to store.  but we weren't meant to be here this long :/
<HazRPG> wow amazing :)
<HazRPG> woah, I thought you meant it was at your mum's or something...
<shauno> nope.  she left michigan not long after I did
<shauno> it's proper lonely
<shauno> downside of having my externals hooked up to my router.  this AEBS gizmo has pretty awful write speeds.
<shauno> may have to dig out an ethernet cord. the move I started when I figured out my root was full, has done 3 of 64Gb
<shauno> at which rate I'm pretty convinced is going to take >24hrs
<HazRPG> ouch
<HazRPG> wait, how's it connected right now? wireless?
<shauno> yeah
<shauno> doesn't everyone use wifi with laptops?
<HazRPG> <== wired
<shauno> no point in a laptop you can't move :)
<HazRPG> in more ways then one xD
 * HazRPG glugs some more red bull
<shauno> altho with the screen dead, mine's anchored to the crt :(
<HazRPG> shauno: my battery has recently decided to give way ... so I know the feeling
<shauno> replacing it soon enough tho, so I can finally quit whining :)
<HazRPG> shauno: I'm sad that my favourite range of HP laptops has died out :(
<shauno> that ...
<shauno> wow.
<HazRPG> what?
<shauno> very low opinion of hp's consumer laptops
<HazRPG> it came with Vista Business - so I would assume its marketed for business folk
<shauno> there's basically 3 options for laptops
<shauno> if you need something cheap & reliable enough to stock out a whole office, dell inspiron
<shauno> if you're buying for yourself, thinkpad or macbook pro
<ZoeR> 'Ello again
<HazRPG> ZoeR: \o
 * ZoeR waves
<HazRPG> shauno: hmm, thinkpad? Really?
<ZoeR> The time has come when Relentless just isn't keeping me awake any more.
<HazRPG> ZoeR: I find caffeine has no effect on my anymore
<ZoeR> I am going to grab a few hours of what those wacky people you see in the street may call 'kip'
<shauno> yes.
<HazRPG> I tend to have to go on detox every 6 months just for it to start working again
<ZoeR> HazRPG: I know the feeling. I wish I didn't but I do.
<ZoeR> I can't detox. I get headaches if I do and I fall asleep all the time
<HazRPG> ZoeR: that's the whole point of detoxing ;)
<ZoeR> Also, my medication makes me sleepy, so I need caffeine to function like a normal human being
<ZoeR> So I suppose it's bedtime for me.
<shauno> caffeine is vital.  too much blood in the caffeinestream makes people sleepy
<ZoeR> shauno is right
<HazRPG> heh, see my problem is I'm hyper by nature, so I need to feed myself caffeine to stay stable - which is rather weird to say out loud
<HazRPG> without it, I'd be asleep most of the time
<HazRPG> shauno: heh, yeah... can't have too much blood now can we :P
<ZoeR> Mmm... blood
<ZoeR> I hear it is useful
<shauno> all good things in moderation :)
<ZoeR> I don't like to have too much moderation.
<HazRPG> indeed
<shauno> well, if you admit moderation is a good thing, then the statement would have to imply you also take moderation .. in moderation
<ZoeR> I'm going to fall asleep at the keyboard here, which is never good
<ZoeR> I did that at university once and ended up going to lectures with keyboard face
<ZoeR> Goodnight, all
<shauno> 'night
<HazRPG> see, the way I look at it... I'm different, because I need to help keep the bell-arch (think that's the term) a nice shape - it terms of people who are normal and not-normal
<shauno> always heard it called a bell curve, but that may be a yankeeism
<HazRPG> ZoeR: well, if your off to bed... sleep well, and hopefully see ya around sometime soon :)
<HazRPG> ah crud, she left before I sent it
<shauno> but yes, it's only a curve if someone's willing to be the tail :)
<HazRPG> exactly :P
<shauno> I simply think night is overrated
<shauno> I don't have to pull crops tomorrow.  I don't have to wake up the same time my prey does.
<shauno> we have electricity now.  and it's awesome.
<HazRPG> I could have sworn it was a bell-arch (or bell-arc)
<HazRPG> shauno: interesting, you have crop? and prey?
<shauno> I think the only real reason left for a 24hr sleep cycle, is that our parents trained us well.  and their (^n)parents before them
<shauno> HazRPG: no.  exactly why I don't have to let the sun be a deciding factor
<HazRPG> oh, I'm with you
<HazRPG> yeha
<shauno> living around the sun made sense for cavemen.
<shauno> we have lightbulbs and stuff.
<HazRPG> also, why no two people have the same sleeping patterns anymore
<HazRPG> I find the sun actually hurts my eyes now
<shauno> they had to be awake when the hunt was good.  I have to be awake when the internet's good.  except, the internet doesn't sleep
<HazRPG> internet doesn't sleep - but it does have traffic issues
<shauno> nah.  it's always rush hour.  somewhere.
 * HazRPG loves it when people say they're stuck in traffic... when really they're the ones causing it - that concept amuses me
<shauno> not always
<shauno> spike milligan reportedly drove slowly around country lanes, to create his own tailbacks.
<HazRPG> shauno: ah, see that's true... however your data supplier will have peak times for sending your packets to other parts of the world
<shauno> claimed that because it was his intentional creation, it was his own work of art
<HazRPG> and will have times when its "clearer"
<HazRPG> shauno: interesting
<shauno> and the $deity(/milligan) looked at what he'd created, and saw that it was good (or something)
<HazRPG> I find driving around slow irritates me
<shauno> I'm meh on the whole speed thing
<shauno> a lot of it is perspective.  in a modern car you're so isolated that you need to go fast to notice you're still driving
<shauno> the mini feels like your butt is 2" off the floor.  every single corner feels like a go-kart ride.
<HazRPG> sounds like my old 106
<shauno> as such, I find 30/40 perfectly acceptable, but abhor straight lines
<HazRPG> yes I owned a pug as my first car :/
<shauno> I've owned 2 minis.  and '86 Sport in the UK, and a '74 mini in the US
<shauno> unless I stumble on enough cash to get something stupid, I totally plan on my 3rd car being a mini :)
<HazRPG> shauno: nah, the reason I find speed an issue is because on the motorway when your travelling in a straight line for several hours at a time - it just feels like your getting nowhere
<HazRPG> but on country roads, even getting to 40Mph feels fast
<shauno> that's exactly what I mean
<shauno> it's not slow that's the issue.  it's the lack of interaction
<HazRPG> ah I see where your getting at
<shauno> can you imagine 70 on a bicycle
<shauno> pretend it's even possible, then compare to what 70 feels like when you're isolated away in your plastic cocoon
<HazRPG> yeah, first car was a 106 because it was cheap (Â£90 cheap!) and survived my first year in it - until I decided I wanted something that didn't feel like I was boxed in (I get claustrophobic due to an elevator incident when I was younger)... so got myself a 206, then later got another 206 just so I could have a 5 door instead of a 3 door
<HazRPG> (still finds the whole boot/trunk being considered as a door stupid!)
<shauno> you can't be that claustrophobic if you don't consider the boot a 5th way out :p
<HazRPG> mild claustrophobia
<shauno> I can't stand big cars.  floating around in a motorized couch is dangerous
<HazRPG> due to an being stuck in an elevator going up and down non-stop and not opening to any of the floors
<shauno> I fell asleep in a rental on a trip to indiana.
<shauno> 55 zoned, 80 on the cruise control, and took a lil nap until I hit the gravel trap
<HazRPG> simply because it was a REALLY old elevator, whereby the latch on each floor stopped it, however when the latch was clicked in place and someone pressed a button on a different floor at the same time - it would move again before you had chance to push the door open
<shauno> led me to believe cruise control is evil, straight roads are evil, and 20 hours of driving in a 24hr period is out-right idiotic
<HazRPG> egyptians are impatient - so they'd mash the floor button until it got to them
<HazRPG> which resulted in it going up and down constantly
<HazRPG> it was also broken on the floor they were on too
<shauno> so you moved to the only nation on earth that knows how to queue properly :p
<HazRPG> wow, yeah that does sound insane
<HazRPG> shauno: education is the reason I moved lol
<HazRPG> shauno: also, I live in saudi - they have normal elevators there (by normal, I mean they change them when newer models get released)
<shauno> I woke up when the wheel left the tarmac and into the drainage.  incredibly bad way to wake up
<HazRPG> in egypt, some of those elevators have been there since the building was first created! Some are down-right ancient!
<HazRPG> yeah I can imagine!
<shauno> remind me to use the stairs if I ever go to egypt :)
<HazRPG> nah, you can tell the old elevators from the new
<HazRPG> if its one where you have to open up by pulling - stairs is your best bet ;)
<shauno> I gotta say tho, the yanks are pretty crazy with straight roads that go on for miles.  they make the romans look like amateurs
<HazRPG> hotels and stuff are all modern - its just the flats/apartments/whatever that you should worry about :P
<HazRPG> heh, yeah the yanks do like their squares
<HazRPG> I can understand why there were made like that
<HazRPG> they*
<HazRPG> they wanted a bit of order, and make it look good and place as much per square metre
<shauno> I think a lot of it is simply a lack of land boundaries
<HazRPG> however when the popularity of cars just makes it not practical
<shauno> but things like http://goo.gl/maps/DdFj
<shauno> 10 miles in a straight line.  I've never been down that without stopping
<HazRPG> hmmm interesting
<shauno> nothing but trees, just on and on and on.  messes with your head
<HazRPG> 10 miles only?
<HazRPG> ah, well when you put it like that
<HazRPG> thought our motorway was bad
<HazRPG> I can get from carlisle to preston without having to stop
<shauno> I think that one's a 50
<HazRPG> but only if I've been awake for 3 hours or so before doing it, ... if I've been awake say 12 hours... doing that stretch will just put me to sleep almost
<shauno> and you can't speed in the backend of nowhere.  every backwater PD that can call the main road their juristiction, milks it for fines
<HazRPG> carlisle -> preston = ~88 miles roughly
<HazRPG> shauno: wow, no way!
<HazRPG> I thought our speed cameras were bad
<HazRPG> and the mobile speed cameras
<HazRPG> however the law states that they must be visible and bright yellow!
<shauno> they don't do gatsos so much
<shauno> I don't imagine they'd last long in hick country :)
<shauno> besides, that part of the country is a little strange.  they get enough snow that a lot of roads aren't quite that permenant
<shauno> http://lh3.ggpht.com/_zALAMNxs8SI/StYrPMpkEBI/AAAAAAAAEIE/Lg0k14PLzK0/2009+Yooper+Vacation+076.JPG
<HazRPG> haha
<HazRPG> that's insane
<HazRPG> however, I'm amused the 13938N 13962N doesn't have two parts to it too
<shauno> they're house numbers
<HazRPG> I figured that :P
<HazRPG> that's why I'm surprised it doesn't have an extended part for winter
<shauno> heh, nah, you don't pick your number
<shauno> it's the number of yards from the start of the road, to the start of your property
<HazRPG> really, that's... err... odd
<HazRPG> but I suppose makes sense
<shauno> it makes sense in the sticks.  it means addresses form directions
<shauno> people can look at it and go "so I turn onto foo, and drive north 8 miles"
<shauno> instead of having to crawl along reading numbers all the way there
<HazRPG> now this is an insanely long road!
<HazRPG> http://goo.gl/lSqev
<shauno> it also makes it really easy to subdivide property, because each new part gets a new boundary, so a new number
<shauno> if you have 2, 4, 6, 8, and 6 wants to subdivide .. you get 2, 4, 5.5, 6, 6.5, 8 ?
<HazRPG> probably doesn't look like much, but read the marker at the bottom-left that shows how its scaled
<shauno> yeah, deserts are silly :)
<shauno> I used to love this coast road, because it was the closest thing I could find to corners :/   http://goo.gl/maps/SnIj
<shauno> couple of nice hairpins in it too
<shauno> not a twisty road by any means, but closest respite I could find from their grid-pattern craziness
<HazRPG> I always felt sorry for my dad each time he had to do this drive: http://goo.gl/Ccefp
<HazRPG> heh yeah, that looks like most motorway roads here in the UK almost
<HazRPG> I have a feeling there's a reason why google makes can work out the two points in saudi is because of saudi law (I think)
<HazRPG> maps*
<HazRPG> I swear it's the auto-correct that's causing my spelling mistakes
<HazRPG> it can't be my typing, surely :S
<shauno> hah, it's no motorway.  it's narrow enough that you have to slow & pull in when there's a car coming the other way
<shauno> it's a silly road that's only there because the rich people like to stick huge houses on the coast
<HazRPG> I meant in its construct, not by its width :P
<shauno> good lord wikipedia loves minutia; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M-119_(Michigan_highway)
<HazRPG> I wonder if I can find my old house on here!
<shauno> last one before I shut up about it ..
<shauno> http://goo.gl/maps/X1lb
<shauno> I like how maps tries to blend completely different pictures :)
<shauno> (summer vs winter in one shot is neat tho)
<HazRPG> holy cow, I thought my dad was kidding when he said that the place had been expanding, but man I can't even tell which way is up anymore!
<HazRPG> haha, yeah that does look random
<shauno> shows why people shouldn't leave their jetties out over winter tho.  huge weak patches in the ice around them
<shauno> it's pretty neat when everything freezes up tho.  the bay I lived on, they cleared a road over to the main town each winter
<shauno> so if you're brave/stupid enough, you could shortcut across the ice
<HazRPG> heh
<HazRPG> free ice ride to town
<shauno> we tried to find the edge of the ice one winter, but my brother started jumping up and down making it creak, so I went back :/
<HazRPG> ah, sod it can't find my old house
<HazRPG> but I have found my FAVOURITE part of the city of all time
<HazRPG> I could spend days in there without getting bored: http://goo.gl/XfCMa
<HazRPG> hehe, your brother must have been brave :P
<HazRPG> the road your looking for on that section is "al olaya st"
<shauno> or stupid :)
<HazRPG> that name amused me, because "oola" or "ula" means "first"
<HazRPG> olaya technically means "the really first" I think
<HazRPG> but I don't think it means that in saudi arabic
<HazRPG> was my favourite street for one simple reason
<HazRPG> there's a 2 mile stretch on there that's just computer shops from one side to the next
<HazRPG> called "the computer souk"
<HazRPG> souk = market
<HazRPG> also, home to where my best friend lived too
<HazRPG> he lived at the top of one of the computer shops there
<HazRPG> during the summer, I would stay at his for 1-2 weeks at a time
<HazRPG> and we'd just drool over all the stuff we could never buy (or begged our parents to buy it for us)
<shauno> I appear to be missing all my photos before 2006.  a little worried :/
<HazRPG> random
<HazRPG> all my photos are in saudi :/
<HazRPG> plus... I never really took photos much, I thought it was pointless back then
<HazRPG> (even though I did own a camera that actually put a different turtle on a corner)
<HazRPG> out of the 4 turtles of course
<HazRPG> very high tech :P
<HazRPG> urgh don't you just hate it when trackers have no peers :/
<HazRPG> been trying to download this documentary for hours now
<shauno> looks like that's going to be my job for tomorrow.  sit down 'n write a crawling to go thru 4 drives trying to find my pictures :/
<HazRPG> heh, I have roughly 10 hard drives or more that has data
<HazRPG> I keep meaning to go out and buy some hard drives and move the data types to each hard drive by themselves
<HazRPG> one for music & videos
<HazRPG> and the other for everything else
<shauno> hopefully someone's still maintaining the -xml patch for jhead
<shauno> for now, I think I'm gonna go grab coffee & head to bed
<shauno> my photos always had a very awkward naming structure that makes them a pain to tidy up; I just name each file for it's own md5sum
<shauno> there was a reason for it, many years ago.  I can't fathom what it was anymore tho.
<shauno> man I wish lacie would hurry up with their 'thunderbolt' enclosure.  that'd make this much happier
<HazRPG> heh, random
<HazRPG> I can imagine you using md5sum to be able to check if the image was edited somehow
<HazRPG> hmm
<HazRPG> trying to find this documentary - but can't find it anywhere!
<shauno> I think I just wanted unique filenames because I was doing something terribly ugly
<HazRPG> http://www.joystiq.com/2006/10/10/interview-with-8-bits-indie-documentarian/
<HazRPG> also, coffee before bed? Wow caffeine really has no effect on you either :P
<shauno> sorta
<HazRPG> I usually have a few cups before bed
<shauno> coffee with milk = settle down for bed :)
<HazRPG> oh well this seems interesting too: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4imzFPIRTY
 * HazRPG goes to grab some mountain dew
<HazRPG> is it bad that I'm hooked on the whole 8-bit era again :?
<shauno> :)
<knightdroid> morning
<knightdroid> everyone ok today
<AlanBell> morning all
<HazRPG> woo! I think my c64 just arrived!
 * HazRPG rushes to the door
<TheOpenSourcerer> morning earthlings/
<knightwise> morning
<TheOpenSourcerer> s\/\o/
<knightwise> a c64 ? cool beans
 * knightwise has his one tucked away upstairs
 * HazRPG begins to tear box apart
<HazRPG> knightwise: I should have 2 in this box ;)
<knightwise> cooo.  what are you going to do with them ?
<HazRPG> well I actually only wanted the one, but the guy had listed both up on ebay under one listing... so I went for it :D
<knightwise> nice
<HazRPG> won it at ~Â£20 (with Â£20 p&p, so ~Â£40 total)
<HazRPG> haha, aces... all here :D
<knightwise> tape tapedrive ? floppy ?
<HazRPG> datassette included + joystick + 6 games
<HazRPG> only 1 power brick however
<knightwise> niiiiiiice
<HazRPG> and no video output cable
<HazRPG> not in original box neither... but still awesome D
<HazRPG> :D*
<HazRPG> I was hoping the A/V cable I bought would have arrived first tbh :(
<HazRPG> so that I could use it when it got here
<HazRPG> but seems I shall have to wait a day or two more for that (could also arrive later on in the day too)
<HazRPG> winner, all here :D
<HazRPG> holy cow the power brick is heavy
<HazRPG> wonder if its possible to make a smaller version of this thing
<HazRPG> looks like I may have to get the good ol' cleaning products out too, seems to be covered in dust
<HazRPG> now for the real test I guess - does it look like its been tampered with...
<HazRPG> wow, did these things not have caps to cover the ports back then :S
<HazRPG> hmm, this case has defo been taken apart before (not liking this)
<knightwise> nope
<knightwise> all dusty and grimy
<knightwise> i had a plastic case to cover the keyboard
<HazRPG> wow, these must have been a pain to type on
<HazRPG> I don't recall my mz-721 being this bad
<knightwise> naah it was ok
<knightwise> lovely sound
<HazRPG> the normal keys don't have sounds, only the spacebar does lol
<HazRPG> I forgot springs were used for keys back then :P
<knightwise> springy 'twing' sound
<HazRPG> well seems I've got a c64 and a c64c
<HazRPG> this could be interesting
<knightwise> a c ???
<HazRPG> if I make tunes with one, it might sound really different on the other
<knightwise> difference ?
<HazRPG> knightwise: yeah the c64c was a revision of it
<HazRPG> the whole case was changed in the c64c to make it look like the c128
<HazRPG> the SID chip was also different too
<HazRPG> the c64 used the SID 6581, and the c64c either had the SID 8580 or the 6582
<knightwise> aah yoi have white ones ?
<HazRPG> one white, one brown
 * knightwise has a beige one
<HazRPG> although the white one is more beige then it is white
<HazRPG> SID 8580 and 6582 are the exact same chip, they just had didn't numbers depending when they were printed
<HazRPG> 6581 was the better chip
<knightwise> aha
<HazRPG> SID = Sound Interface Device
<HazRPG> was what gave the c64 its edge as far as sound went
<HazRPG> was hoping for 2 c64's
<HazRPG> but oh well :)
<HazRPG> least I can test the tunes out with both chips :)
<HazRPG> I really don't like that the c64 was opened before
<HazRPG> also has a missing screw
<HazRPG> I'm hoping he didn't rip out the SID chip
<HazRPG> would be useless for what I want to use this for without it
<HazRPG> only one way to find out I guess :P
<HazRPG> hmm, well the chip is still there :D
<HazRPG> however, I have no idea what this white liquid/cream stuff is on two of the pins!
<HazRPG> any hardware geeks about with any insight?
<knightwise> hmm
<knightwise> i needz to google to see if its possible to add podcasts to gpodder via the command line
<HazRPG> well I've managed to clean out the pins, and get rid of some dust that was lying around in there
<HazRPG> seems to be an original 1984 one too :)
<knightwise> cool
<knightwise> where you even born back then ?
<HazRPG> nope, not for another 3 years xD
<knightwise> hahah
 * knightwise is from 74
<HazRPG> 87
<HazRPG> sadly :(
<knightwise> howso ?
<HazRPG> I was totally born in the wrong era
<knightwise> lol
<knightwise> me too
<HazRPG> I would have loved to have lived through the 80's and actually remembered it
<knightwise> hahah
<knightwise> i have been there
<HazRPG> I have vague memories from when I was 2-3
 * knightwise remembers band aid
<HazRPG> heh, you were born in the 70's but not old enough to live it the way your parents might have though ;)
<knightwise> my parents are waaaaaay oldef
<knightwise> r
<HazRPG> that's my point, they'll have seen the 70's the proper way :)
<HazRPG> much like how mine will have seen the 80's the proper way
<HazRPG> although my dad's probably old enough to be your dad
<knightwise> 70's  free love and lots of pubic hair
<HazRPG> surprised he's not retired yet :/
<HazRPG> knightwise: that's the one :P
 * knightwise shudders
<HazRPG> lol
<HazRPG> not fair, I was totally born of the wrong year >_<
<HazRPG> I owned a mz-721 though
<knightwise> blank  whats that ?
<HazRPG> old 70's computer my dad had
<knightwise> cool
<HazRPG> this puppy right here: http://pc-museum.com/gallery/rcm-026.jpg
<HazRPG> ironically, better built then the c64 - but lack of decent hardware inside it
<knightwise> too bad
<HazRPG> although it did sport its very own sound card
<HazRPG> however, when I say sound card - its more like a system beep speaker
 * knightwise keeps on to an old crt tv for his c64
<HazRPG> can't believe I have a c64 in my hand, and a TV to plug this sucker into - but no A/V jack >_<
<HazRPG> is it bad that I'm thinking about ripping the c64c out and trying to mod it into my mz-721
<daubers> Morning
<HazRPG> daubers: morning
<HazRPG> man, would be a shame to do that
<HazRPG> s/man/nah*
<HazRPG> hmm, interesting, the bottom says "Made in England" but the chips inside say "Made in Hong Kong"
<knightwise> cool
<daubers> HazRPG: Chips where made in HK and the final assembly done in UK :)
<daubers> HazRPG: I have a speccy I think I've managed to repair, but need to make up a new AV cable for it
<HazRPG> daubers: nice :)
<HazRPG> what was wrong with it?
<daubers> HazRPG: burnt out resistor oddly enough
<HazRPG> time/use will do that to older resistors though
<HazRPG> still can't believe the back of these c64's are bare where the expansion slots are
<HazRPG> that just seems like bad design to me
<HazRPG> daubers: hmm, you might know!
<HazRPG> daubers: what would the white creamy stuff be that's formed around the SID chip on the c64 I have?
<HazRPG> or what would cause that?
<HazRPG> I've cleaned it up as best I can, but would that mean the SID chip is nacked though?
<DJones> Morning
<HazRPG> DJones: howdy, and morning squire
<screen-x> morning :)
<HazRPG> screen-x: morning :)
<DJones> HazRPG: Did the white stuff look as though it belonged there like some form of sealant or protection, or was more like a corrosion
<HazRPG> well all the other chips don't have this white stuff, so one would assume its not meant to be there
<HazRPG> however it did look like it seeped out from the actual pins itself
<HazRPG> I actually took out the SID, and it could have started from where the chip was pressed
<HazRPG> however I doubt it should be there
<HazRPG> since, it was touching 2 pins - which would short it out if im not mistaken
<HazRPG> but honestly, I haven't a clue
 * HazRPG wished he took photos
<screen-x> is there a kernel parameter I can use to prevent nfs filesystems from being mounted?
<screen-x> boot is hanging on mountall, as it seems to be happening before network config :(
<screen-x> Before I added nfs entries to fstab, the system would boot fine and configure networking correctly.
<DJones> screen-x: Is it just a bad mount point in fstab? I've had a similar thing but boot would complete after about 5 minutes waiting
<screen-x> DJones: The mount point is good, as mount -a worked before rebooting.
<DJones> screen-x: Does it eventually boot despite the hanging for a while
<screen-x> DJones: just rebooting now, I'll leave it for 10 mins and see if it gets through.
<screen-x> [timestamp] mountall terminated with status 32
<MartijnVdS> screen-x: boot in rescue mode, no network
<screen-x> MartijnVdS: it still attempts nfs mounts, even in rescue mode.
<MartijnVdS> no idea :(
<DJones> screen-x: Did that boot in the end then apart from not mounting the nfs mounts
<screen-x> DJones: only had 4 minutes... on the console it appears to be hung, haven't got a login prompt yet.
<screen-x> interestingly, I can ping the machine (so networking must be up) but can ssh in (sshd is installed..) nmap shows only port 111 as open.
<screen-x> s/can ssh/can't ssh/
<DJones> screen-x: Doesn't sound good, I've always found that it mine would eventually boot once the nfs attempts timed out
<screen-x> I'll give it a few more mins.
<MartijnVdS> screen-x: init=/bin/bash :)
<screen-x> MartijnVdS: good thinking.
<DJones> screen-x: Going back to the original question http://www.kernel.org/doc/Documentation/kernel-parameters.txt lists "NFS - Appropriate NFS support is enabled." Don't nkow if that will help
<screen-x> 10 minutes is up, no bootage. Going to try init=/bin/bash
<screen-x> these problems must have been really tiedous before ipmi and irc!
<screen-x> hmm init=/bin/bash didn't seem to have any effect :(
<MartijnVdS> screen-x: strange.. it should have started bash instead of init.. giving you POWARR
<DJones> Sounds like a livecd is called for
<screen-x> DJones: live cd is complicated, as it doesnt include ifenslave and vconfig (needed for networking) or lvm2 (needed to mount disks..)
<DJones> Ouch
<MartijnVdS> screen-x: alternate CD/custom remaster?
<screen-x> ooh yes, the alternate cd does have lvm, I wonder if it has the networking utils.
<mungojerry> wow, it was busy in here last night..usually there's about 600-700 lines missed when i leave pidgin on overnight in this channel...last night 1200
<screen-x> should I use 'single' in conjunction with init=/bin/bash? or does single have no effect when init isnt used?
<MartijnVdS> screen-x: it shouldn't
<screen-x> just realised I was specifying init=/bin/bash in the wrong place..
<MartijnVdS> screen-x: +have an effect.. maybe in initrd though
<screen-x> \o/ prompt
<daubers> HazRPG: I'd hate to think...
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: it's condensed magic smoke
<HazRPG> daubers: ?
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: ???
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: that, or you're having WAY too much fun with your SID chips
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: 09:35 < HazRPG> daubers: what would the white creamy stuff be that's formed  around the SID chip on the c64 I have?
<mungojerry> HazRPG: does it look like the stuff where capacitors blow?
<HazRPG> mungojerry: I don't even know what that would look like :/
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: gooey
<daubers> HazRPG: Where have you been storing the c64?
<mungojerry> caked on crusty white stuff
<MartijnVdS> or crusty, yes
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: heh, I wish - I don't have an A/V cable yet (apparently it was sent 19 hrs ago though)
<HazRPG> mungojerry: ah, much like what you'd see on a battery!
<HazRPG> mungojerry: then no
<HazRPG> mungojerry: was still moist, and creamy...
<MartijnVdS> .. ew
<mungojerry> this is so wrong
<HazRPG> looks like, erm... cream!
<mungojerry> c64 love
<HazRPG> dirty minded so and so's!
<screen-x> yay, edited fstab from initrd prompt, rebooted and has come up fine.
<MartijnVdS> mungojerry: too much love if you ash me 8-)
<MartijnVdS> ask*
 * HazRPG rolls eyes
 * DJones thinks ewww
<screen-x> now to work out why nfs mounts are causing the boot to fail.
<MartijnVdS> screen-x: because nfs mouns come up before vconfig does its magic?
<MartijnVdS> screen-x: firewall issues?
<MartijnVdS> screen-x: portmapper issues?
<screen-x> MartijnVdS: no firewall yet
<daubers> screen-x: nfs server down?
<daubers> networking issue?
<screen-x> daubers: no server is ok
<mungojerry> could be glue
<screen-x> networking issue is likely, the actually error given is name resolution failed.
<mungojerry> how does it taste HazRPG
<screen-x> but I can ping, so networking does come up eventually, but it sounds like it tries to mount before that.
<HazRPG> mungojerry: errmmmm... I wasn't going to lick it now was I! :P
<HazRPG> however, I was brave and wiped a bit with my finger - and it wasn't sticky
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: Time to get out your chemistry kit, lab coat and goggles
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: FOR SCIENCE
<HazRPG> xD
<livingdaylight> how much does  virtualbox drain ubuntu resources?
<livingdaylight> felt my system get distinctly sluggish
<MartijnVdS> depends on the guest :)
<livingdaylight> w7
<screen-x> livingdaylight: virtualbox can be pretty fast, if you have hardware virtualisation and enough ram to not swap.
<livingdaylight> hardware virtualization?
<mungojerry> HazRPG: without seeing a picture, i have a feeling that it's some epoxy or glue that they used to put on the boards, it may have altered a bit over 30 years and become more liquid
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: yes.. take a picture! mungojerry: great idea :)
<livingdaylight> I have a 64x system but run ubuntu 32bit... Can I still run win7-64x in VB?
<MartijnVdS> livingdaylight: why not use a 64-bit Ubuntu?
<screen-x> livingdaylight: intel vt or amd-v
<livingdaylight> screen-x, and does one ideally share ram 50/50 or is 1gb sufficient for w7 on vb?
<screen-x> livingdaylight: you can run 64bit guests on a 32bit host if you have hardware virtualisation support as mentioned above.
<livingdaylight> MartijnVdS, don't remember, it was a few releases ago, when it was deemed 32-bit was easier for somethings which 64x hadn't caught up to yet (optimally - flash?) And I've just been upgrading I don't know how many releases in a row now, so, havnent reinstalled yet. Maybe next time
<screen-x> livingdaylight: I dont know how much ram win7 needs to be happy, as I haven't used it.
<livingdaylight> screen-x, thx. I don't know whether I have intel vt or not
<MartijnVdS> livingdaylight: check /proc/cpuinfo
<screen-x> !info cpu-checker
<lubotu3> cpu-checker (source: cpu-checker): tools to help evaluate certain CPU (or BIOS) features. In component main, is optional. Version 0.1-0ubuntu2 (maverick), package size 6 kB, installed size 60 kB
<livingdaylight> command not found... do I need to install cpu-checker?
<MartijnVdS> livingdaylight: no, you run "kvm-ok" :)
<screen-x> that contains kvm-ok which tells you if you have hardware virtualisation.
<mungojerry> guys, software-center is still core dumping on natty, can anyone confirm?
<livingdaylight> I have cpu-checker installed, but /proc/cpuinfo says command not found
<screen-x> livingdaylight: run kvm-ok
<livingdaylight> run kvm?
<screen-x> run "kvm-ok"
<livingdaylight> KVM acceleration can NOT be used
<screen-x> ahh :(
<livingdaylight> is that the clue?
<livingdaylight> :(
<MartijnVdS> you might be able to enable it in the BIOS
<livingdaylight> good idea, I'll have a peek
<livingdaylight> peak?
<czajkowski> Aloha
<MartijnVdS> \o czajkowski
<danfish> \o/ czajkowski
<danfish> does anyone know an easy recipe to make a python script into an upstart job?
<HazRPG> czajkowski: howdy!
<czajkowski> gonna be a sleepy slow day
<DJones> czajkowski: WAKE UP !
<HazRPG> mungojerry, MartijnVdS... you would say after I'd closed the thing off already and wiped most of it off :P
<czajkowski> so cant do that today
 * daubers passes czajkowski the coffee
<HazRPG> hang on, I'll get my 8MP camera and see if I can get a decent photo of what remains on it
<czajkowski> TEA!
<czajkowski> already had 3 mugs of the stuff
 * mungojerry wishes he liked tea
<MartijnVdS> mungojerry: practice, practice, practice
<mungojerry> i tried :(
<mungojerry> drank it until i was about 11..
<mungojerry> it makes me feel sick to think of the smell, or the taste
 * DJones points czajkowski at http://www.energyfiend.com/2007/01/meth-coffee-super-caffeinated-coffee
<czajkowski> popey: http://www.nymr.co.uk/special-events/mini-events/volunteer-recruitment-open-day/
<daubers> mungojerry: Maybe you where doing it wrong
<daubers> mungojerry: Coming to oggcamp?
<mungojerry> where is it ?
<daubers> mungojerry: Hampshire somewhere (not been fully announced yet)
<daubers> mungojerry: Best to take it as "Somewhere nearish popey" as that's the full extent that's been released :)
<AlanBell> which isn't Hampshire :)
<screen-x> have dates been announced?
<daubers> Thought Frn was hampshire? Is it herts?
<mungojerry> daubers: it's nearer than liverpool, so maybe.!
<AlanBell> I believe Popey lives in Surrey
 * mungojerry wishes it was herts instead :P
 * popey does not
<AlanBell> really?
<popey> really.
 * AlanBell checks the border location
 * TheOpenSourcerer thought the Price of Wales was in Hants.
<popey> I can see Surrey from my desk
<popey> It is
 * czajkowski is in Surrey
<czajkowski> TheOpenSourcerer: we're having a BBQ in Sirius on March 30th for document freedom day.
<TheOpenSourcerer> I am in Surrey and about 0.5m from Hampshire.
<daubers> It's that area where everything is close enough to be each other really :)
 * Tommeh slaps czajkowski with a Filbert
<TheOpenSourcerer> There is a pub near me that has one door in Surrey and one in Hampshire so I have been told.
 * TheOpenSourcerer looks at his calendar.
<czajkowski> Tommeh: oi!
<czajkowski> who the hell is tommeh
<czajkowski> go poke Filbert elsewhere
<Tommeh> Arf
<TheOpenSourcerer> Isn't he one half of cannon & ball?
<Tommeh> * Tommeh slaps Filbert with mzje-
<Tommeh> ^ Done, czajkowski
<JamesTait> 'Allo 'allo!
<MartijnVdS> ...: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7jRjSb3408I
<mungojerry> my dad lives in farnham and in-laws in surrey so could be a nice trip
<AlanBell> farnham ftw
<mungojerry> had my wedding reception at uni of surrey
<daubers> mungojerry: If you do, I'll bring some proper tea
 * mungojerry likes peppermint tea
 * screen-x has climbed the giant golf ball at the surrey uni
 * mungojerry worries that if he drank real tea, he might be the first person to spew at oggcamp
<mungojerry> screen-x: it doesn't look safe
<mungojerry> http://www.flickr.com/photos/benporter86/5224157537/
<mungojerry> has a question about life...as usual
<mungojerry> is it safe to sleep with your head under the covers? i wonder if i get enough oxygen at night
<screen-x> haha
<AlanBell> drinking Pimms at the last oggcamp http://www.flickr.com/photos/webmink/4574060621/
<screen-x> cold house mungojerry?
<screen-x> \o/
<mungojerry> screen-x: dunno, i think it's light and comfort related.
<AlanBell> apparently videos from the last oggcamp will be available "soon"
<mungojerry> my dog does the same in her bed
<screen-x> mungojerry: maybe use a snorkel?
<mungojerry> surely the CO2 concentration must be pretty high
<popey> indeed AlanBell  :(
<AlanBell> popey: I had a recent update on this
<AlanBell> something to do with slide timings
<AlanBell> all seems overcomplicated to me
<AlanBell> point camera, download file from camera, stick on youtube/blip.tv, done.
<popey> +1
<popey> thats what I did at UDS
<AlanBell> yeah, that worked
<AlanBell> I really wanted my oggcamp presentation up and available before the election
<screen-x> didnt daubers put some up?
<popey> he did
<daubers> I did!
<daubers> Don't have a video camera anymore though :(
<daubers> Might try and borrow one or two for next oggcamp
<popey> i have one :)
<daubers> \o/
<daubers> If I can borrow a mini NAS from work I'll try and setup an automated blip upload
<popey> that would be neat
<daubers> dump files in folder, every 10 minutes it uploads to blip and moves the files out
<popey> someone still needs to maintain the meta data at blip
<daubers> Yeah, that shouldn't be too arduous though
<daubers> Might have a nose through their api
<AlanBell> I have a camera, but it is mini-dv and firewire and I don't have a computer with firewire any more
<daubers> That I might be able to solve also....
<daubers> Though it may mean using non-free systems :-s
 * popey has just setup http://oggcamp.blip.tv/
<popey> :D
<HazRPG> mungojerry: you still about dude?
<HazRPG> currently uploading snaps
 * daubers ponders moving his mail server back to google apps
<daubers> Horro of dealing iwht postfix update recently has made me really consider it again
<popey> http://www.youtube.com/user/oggcamp also now setup
<daubers> \o/
<daubers> youtube can also have it's uploads automated iirc
<HazRPG> mungojerry: https://picasaweb.google.com/hazrpg/C64 pick your fancy out of the crop
<daubers> \o/ http://code.google.com/apis/youtube/1.0/developers_guide_python.html
<HazRPG> mungojerry: best I could do
<HazRPG> specially considering I wiped as much as I could earlier
<HazRPG> mungojerry: 2nd and 3rd picture is basically a white stain similar to that found on the chip - although that one is dry
<HazRPG> the white rig at the top of the chip appears to still be wet, but I thought that shouldn't cause any problems - my main concern was the pins
<screen-x> "mount.nfs4 DNS resolution failed for 10.187.129.101"
<screen-x> O RLY?
<mungojerry> HazRPG: i'm back...
<mungojerry> lol i found an amiga that had been thrown out by neighbours
<mungojerry> plus LOADS of games
<mungojerry> i took it into the house...mrs mungojerry gave me one of those looks...
<screen-x> haha
<mungojerry> i looked at my existing pile of dead and old tech gadgets and took it back outside
<mungojerry> still kept the mouse for some reason
<mungojerry> and the expansion pack
<mungojerry> HazRPG: does the C64 work?
<HazRPG> mungojerry: unsure...
<HazRPG> mungojerry: still waiting on my A/V cables
<HazRPG> mungojerry: :o!!!
<HazRPG> you did what!
<HazRPG> :(
<HazRPG> I would have taken it off you!
 * HazRPG hordes old hardware too
<mungojerry> i had no attic at the time
<mungojerry> AKA man-space
<mungojerry> my wife never goes up there
<dwatkins> mungojerry: where do you live, I'll drive over an dpick it up ;)
<mungojerry> dwatkins: next time i find stuff like that i'll come here :)
<mungojerry> i also have a broken ibook g4
<czajkowski> daubers: I have an envelpe here for you but clearly the sticky I left on it has vanished with you address.
<mungojerry> for spares or repair
<dwatkins> mungojerry: I'm sure you'll have plenty of people interested, yeah - our local freecycle sometimes has old hardware, it's gone in a flash
<mungojerry> using freecycle is about as pleasurable as using our company accounting software
<mungojerry> if anyone here has a g4 they need spares for ..
<screen-x> mungojerry: I only use it for getting rid of stuff now..
<screen-x> mungojerry: I have a powerbook g4 that needs a new screen, but I think they were different size from the ibooks.
<HazRPG> freecycle?
<HazRPG> I'm guessing that's the recycle centres :P
<screen-x> HazRPG: mailing lists for redistributing junk
<mungojerry> HazRPG: it's a community driven website to get rid of and find 2nd hand gear
<mungojerry> although they forked because of power struggles and freegle became the better one
<knightwise> anyone have any good suggestions for linux podcasts ?
<knightwise> i do uupc las going linux and the outlaws
<mungojerry> why do free* use yahho groups :(
<directhex> habit
<HazRPG> mungojerry, screen-x: nice!
 * HazRPG goes to google to find it
<daubers> popey: The youtube api lets you add meta stuff automagically, so if we had somewhere we could upload the slides too, we could automagically add a link to the slides too
<popey> neat!
<HazRPG> this one: http://www.uk.freecycle.org/ <=
<daubers> popey: And to really push the boat out, you can then tweet the link to the uploaded vid and slides :)
<popey> that would also rock!
<daubers> I'll have a play this evening and see what I can come up with
<screen-x> daubers++
 * mungojerry values free stuff more than paid stuff
<jgjones> was told "want a computer for free?"
<dogmatic69> is it possible to run ruby and php on the same server?
<jgjones> sure I'll have it. Hmm and I get a Radio Shack TRS-80 Model 4...and I was expecting something a wee bit newer
<awilkins> dogmatic69, Yes
<dogmatic69> yey
<bigcalm> Hello peoples :)
<dogmatic69> now to figure out why its not working
<awilkins> jgjones, Isn't a TRS-80 quite the collectors item on ebay now
<jgjones> Hmm....will have a look...I have no idea if it works.
<jgjones> It must be awesome...it comes with not one but TWO floppy disk drives.
<awilkins> jgjones, The model 3 is going for over Â£100
<awilkins> jgjones, Heh, just the PSU unit is going for nearly Â£50 for the model 4
<jgjones> awilkins, hmm interesting...at moment I've just put it in my office as a display
<awilkins> jgjones, The ADVERT for the model 4 is selling for just under Â£5   :-)
<jgjones> just saw that :)
<davmor2> morning all
<jgjones> awilkins, seriously...what do they use it for?!
<jgjones> And I was thinking I might try a case mod for it, removing the CRT and replace with a small LCD for status display etc.
<awilkins> I think it's just a collector thing... some people buy a Cray-1 just to be an unusual piece of furniture...
 * awilkins for the first time wishes that Java was a dynamic language
<awilkins> Grr. Have to call "getContent()" on a whole host of types that came out of a type generator but don't implement a common interface ; can't change them because the code will get overwritten by the generator... annoying
<jgjones> Hmm Cray-1 as chairs...I now know how to get around my wife "it's not a computer, it's a cutting-edge arty furniture....whatever gave you the idea that it's a computer??"
<tugrik> the answer might be "furniture isn't usually plugged in"?
<mungojerry> massage chair :P
<tugrik> fair point :)
<jgjones> Heated seats?
<mungojerry> http://www.geek.com/articles/chips/hacker-creates-110th-scale-cray-1-supercomputer-20100830/
<mungojerry> cray-1 looks comfy
<mungojerry> assuming they are cushioned seating around the edge?
<jgjones> It look cushioned, but if I recall, the "seats" are the cooling units and the C shape was picked to be the most efficient design for speed (shorter wires or whatever)
<directhex> more supercomputers should also be furniture
<screen-x> directhex: clouds are great, but they are tricky to sit on.
<mungojerry> unless you have a harp
<mungojerry> and wings
<bigcalm> It doesn't look that expensive to mock up full scale. How many MIPS did the original Cray have? I doubt you'd have to put many machines inside to match it
<jgjones> yeah - "seats" are cooling system and C shape for shorter wires etc (it was liquid cooled) https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Cray-1#Description
<screen-x> thing that strikes me about the cray-1 is how small it is
 * davmor2 hugs czajkowski for a change, just to say welcome home,  then prods her to remind her that it's me :)
<jgjones> screen-x, small? the cray-1 weighed 5.5 ton! :)
<screen-x> jgjones: but compare to bluegene-l
<popey> http://www.saveie6.com/
<popey> :)
<jgjones> screen-x, true, but then, Cray-1 look cooler and is a "single tower" ;-)
<bigcalm> popey: "Get the W3C standard changed to fit IE6" best line of the day
 * dwatkins sat on a Cray 1 many years ago when it was actually new
 * czajkowski falls asleep on davmor2 
 * daubers ponders whether to have an extravagent lunch or not
<mungojerry> :( dell's premier site allows me to change abolsutely any option on a pc except for the removal of windows tax
<daubers> mungojerry: You have to ring them for that
<mungojerry> sucks
<davmor2> czajkowski: Do you really think your safe doing that when I have hair clippers in reach :P
 * czajkowski pouts 
<czajkowski> am tired lemmie lone meanie
<popey> MORNING!
<popey> I am going out for beer tonight, so expect incoherence.
<bigcalm> Bah, humbug
<czajkowski> and this differs from other days popey  :p
 * czajkowski is tempted to go beering tonight 
<bigcalm> popey: before or after?
<popey> wakka wakka wakka
<popey> comedy gold
<MartijnVdS> uh oh
<MartijnVdS> colleagues discovering minecrack
<mungojerry> surely minecraft can't be more fun than Donkey kong returns :P
<directhex> i don't know if it's fun full stop. but it's quite compelling
 * czajkowski fronws at the pdf 
<czajkowski> att images to the .odt version, save to pdf images there, hit print no images :(
<czajkowski> what am I doing wrong ?
<DJones> czajkowski: If you're this tired now, going beering tonight isn't likely to help you feel less sleepy tomorrow
<czajkowski> DJones: while that is excellent logic, I feel the need for beer now, by 5pm though I may be curled up in a ball asleep
<DJones> czajkowski: Heh, sleep wins over beer
<czajkowski> depends how well my to do list shrinks
<czajkowski> lack of shrinking may result in beer
<czajkowski> getting to do list done results in beer ;)
 * DJones adds a last entry on czajkowski's to do list "Drink beer or multiple of same"
<HazRPG> winner!
<HazRPG> my A/V cable just arrived!
<HazRPG> seems it was on the later delivery :)
<brobostigon> morning everyone.
<awilkins> Not for long
<bigcalm> Ug
<screen-x> I have a postscript file, I print it from 10.04, comes out fine. Print exactly the same file to the same printer from an 8.04 machine and only the header appears :(
<awilkins> I take it this isn't a PS printer
<screen-x> awilkins: it is a postscript printer
<screen-x> laserjet cp4005
<awilkins> screen-x, Shouldn't the printer have the responsibility for parsing postscript then?
<screen-x> awilkins: probably. I think cups maybe mangling it though. Both machines are using postscript drivers (there is also a pcl option)
<screen-x> I should ftp the file to the printer and see which version I get..
<awilkins> Aye, can you just cat the file to the device and see what happens :-)
<awilkins> (60 reams of paper later, screen-x takes out a hit on me)
<screen-x> hmm, this being a network printer, I would use nc for that?
 * screen-x tries it
<awilkins> At this point we depart the shores of my knowledge ... I've not had a lot of use for printers recently. Most of my deep technical experience is with dot-matrix models from the 80s
<awilkins> And Zebra label printers
 * screen-x dislikes printers and is amazed that they work at all. 
<awilkins> I have a Samsung colour laser that I'm happy with and leave it at that
<awilkins> Although for some reason, I have to download some drivers from sourceforge which appear identical to the packaged ones but have better colour balance
<screen-x> nc worked :)
<awilkins> As in - I've unpacked the tar files and compared them and only dates in comments seem to be different for my model . Odd
<screen-x> that is odd
<awilkins> There is a step in the downloaded ones that wgets some colour profiles, maybe that's the difference
<awilkins> It does seem a bit shonky - the author exhorts you for donations (which is fine) but I think there must be some kind of obfuscation going on because the Ubuntu packages should work just the same.
<screen-x> awilkins: package the colour profile :)
<awilkins> It had occurreed to me ; I didn't have the time to identify the differences though
<popey> hahah yeah
<awilkins> And the whole PPA thing is still a bit hard work for me
<awilkins> Maybe that "Ground Control" app would help
<awilkins> Just saw it in an Ubuntu book... our sysadmin manager decided we needed some documentation since we're installing Ubuntu on servers now...
<awilkins> (only one so far)
 * mungojerry is pondering over a Intel E7500 (3M Cache, 2.93 GHz, 1066 MHz FSB) or a E8400 (6M Cache, 3.00 GHz, 1333 MHz FSB)  for Â£55 extra
<Tommeh> Â£55 extra on what?
<Tommeh> Or over which CPU, I mean.
<mungojerry> paying extra Â£55 for the better CPU
<dogmatic69> +3M cache is nice, and faster fsb
<Tommeh> Oh I see what you've written now.
<mungojerry> needs to last 4 years
<Tommeh> I wouldn't buy either
<dogmatic69> mungojerry: why not i3 / i5
<Tommeh> They're both well out of date.
<dogmatic69> exactly
<dogmatic69> at least an i3 you are on the newest socket
<Tommeh> Both S775 CPUs, you'd want at least S1156 or (even better) S1155
<mungojerry> its for work PCs..i want PC+screen under Â£500 inc vat
<Tommeh> I dunno if Dell have gotten around to the S1155 (Sandybridge) stuff yet.
<BigRedS> Gah. Gnome Power Manager makes no sense to me
<dogmatic69> mungojerry: i got a i3 + 4gig ram and 2x 23" for 700ish, just one screen would take it to about 500
<mungojerry> i* isn't on the list
<dogmatic69> http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=FS-226-OK
<dogmatic69> that + 23" for 150 is your Â£500
<mungojerry> would be nice for my house :)
<Tommeh> mungojerry: I've noticed they don't have much in the i* stuff
<Tommeh> But if you go to the Vostro desktops, they do have i5's
<Tommeh> Instead of Optiplex
<mungojerry> Tommeh: yeah, generally i get Optiplex 380s
<dogmatic69> that i3 is faster than my Q8200
<Tommeh> Aye, they seem to be stuck in 2009
<mungojerry> they offer the Q8400 too
 * Tommeh has a 360 under my desk
<directhex> ocuk :/
<Tommeh> I guarantee they'll be replaced soon :)
<mungojerry> Tommeh: they never go wrong and run linux well
<awilkins> I think the problem with these colour profiles is they get downloaded and extracted from the printer firmwares
<Tommeh> Well yeah, but.. You're a fool to buy dying tech brand new :p
<mungojerry> i still have a inspiron 530 under my desk and it still feels new
<dogmatic69> Q8* are about 2 / 3 years old
<directhex> my i7 920 still feels fresh
<directhex> but that's because it's teh awesomes
 * awilkins has a core2 quad
<dogmatic69> i9 + 16gig or ram would be nice :)
<mungojerry> some would argue that brand new tech is too Â£Â£Â£
<dogmatic69> with ssd obviously
<awilkins> Nicely refreshed by shoving a new 560i graphics card in it
<Baikonur> i've got some amd x2 and it feels like amiga
<mungojerry> we have HPC clusters for proper work
<dogmatic69> lol
<directhex> mungojerry, you need a multi-core desktop, and buckets of ram, to run mpich to test apps. duh.
<Tommeh> mungojerry: aren't the vostros a stage cheaper than the opitplex's anyway?
<awilkins> Developers need more-awesome-than-average hardware now
<directhex> i need all these mhz for work.
<directhex> it's true.
<awilkins> I had to shove secretly put 4GB extra RAM in my work desktop because ICT won't provide it because they don't provide a 64-bit OS
<mungojerry> most of the staff are writing latex docs , viewing pdfs and browsing the web
<mungojerry> running the odd python/C prog..
<mungojerry> Tommeh: vostros are coming in at Â£830 !
<mungojerry> optiplex Â£409
<mungojerry> must be my academic discount working better on the opti
<mungojerry> some staff are still using 5 yr old PCs just fine..running linux
<mungojerry> the windows users (thankfully very few of those) want new PC every 2 yrs
<Tommeh> lol
<Tommeh> Ah well, I can't argue with what you're paying for it.
<awilkins> I think this is because the crapware gets hungrier all the time
<Tommeh> Do you ever take those premier login prices and send them to your account manager?
<Tommeh> Quite often we find they can push further.
<mungojerry> mcafee shags your PC and doesn;'t even catch virii
<mungojerry> Tommeh: i will be doing that for the removal of win tax
<Tommeh> ah-ha
<awilkins> Heh, we "traded up" from Symantec (4% CPU use) to McAffee (40% CPU use)
<Tommeh> Yeah, good idea.
<mungojerry> awilkins: and none of them catch stuff except malwarebytes!
<awilkins> I have some publishing processes that take 1:30 on Linux and 8:30 on Windows (same hardware) now
<awilkins> Add to that the process which audits your PC every day at around 10:00
<mungojerry> sweet
<mungojerry> thats prodcutivity for you
<screen-x> awilkins: so you have to take your extra 4GB ram out at 09:45?
<awilkins> Thrashes every path in the filesystem, goes through all the archives, then spends 30 minutes of 100% CPU time zipping the list of paths up for ICT to ignore....
<mungojerry> awilkins: what type of company u work for?
<awilkins> screen-x, I don't think they've noticed, TBH. I only boot it to Windows at 0900 on Mondays for the DHCP lease. Then it gets shut down and runs Linux the rest of the week.
<daubers> awilkins: But the primary job of any pc is to run a virus scanner so it doens't get virus's!!
<screen-x> awilkins: you can't get a dhcp lease from linux?
 * awilkins works for the larges employer in UK and third largest in world and that should be enough for anyone to infer.
<awilkins> screen-x, It's authenticated somehow
<screen-x> sounds like NHS..
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: US Military?
<Tommeh> * awilkins works for the larges employer in U
<Tommeh> *UK
<Tommeh> So probably not the US Military
<DJones> Tommeh: Spies :)
<MartijnVdS> Tommeh: well, you don't know how many undercover operatives they have, do you? ;)
<screen-x> 74% of uk citizens are employed by the us military
<mungojerry> any company that inserts a C into IT can be relied upon to porivde poor IT service
<Tommeh> lol
<MartijnVdS> screen-x: [FACT]
<daubers> screen-x: Yup, spying on th other 26% :)
<Tommeh> Interestingly enough though the MOD is the 2nd-largest employer in the UK
<Tommeh> Largest being the NHS (your poor sod, awilkins)
 * daubers always takes those statistics iwht a pinch of salt
<daubers> No indication if it's directly employed or indirectly employed
<Tommeh> Both would be pretty bad.
<mungojerry> the 20% VAT rate really bites into my budget :(
<BigRedS> It's not really surprising...
<Tommeh> mungojerry: why does your budget even include the VAT rate?
<Tommeh> Surely that money is claimed back at the end of the year so .. Isn't a problem?
<mungojerry> try explaining that to finance director
<DJones> mungojerry: Time to get a new finance director
<mungojerry> i'm not complaining while i still have control over spending
<mungojerry> or still have a job :P
<directhex> mungojerry, buy clusters, blame medical research so they're vat-exempt
<directhex> you clearly need a cluster of laptops & desktops
<mungojerry> i need a cluster of printers that never fails or jams
<bigcalm> No such device exists
<daubers> mungojerry: A cluster of cheap labourers in some far off country with biro's?
<mungojerry> my budget has a loophole that i have to purchase individual toners , but if everyone prints to one of 3 massive printers, that comes from a different budget
<mungojerry> if everyone prints to the big printers, i spend more on IT
<mungojerry> but they always jam and clog
<directhex> we bought a new big-ish printer for the office
<directhex> big for us
<screen-x> we have xerox phaser, and when you lift the lid, loads of very thing looking metal bits do a little dance. I'm convinced I'm going to snap/bend something everytime I have to open it.
<screen-x> s/thing/thin/
<awilkins> I have issues with people printing stuff out to review it
<awilkins> I purposely avoided getting a printer card so I can't print things
<daubers> awilkins: Issue everyone with a tablet and bin the printers
<awilkins> daubers, There was that thought... but I bet the budget for printer consumables comes out of a different pocket to the budget for ereaders
<mungojerry> i spend the same on desktop PCs per year that i do on toner
<awilkins> And they'd still want to apply markup with pens
<daubers> awilkins: Thats easy to resolve, get a big stick and beat the finance controller with it until they see sense
<directhex> big heavy kyocera for the office
<awilkins> daubers, If I had to fight my way to the finance controller you could set up a camera and remake Kill Bill
<daubers> heh
 * daubers is waiting for the webos tablet before deciding whether or not tablets have a future
<daubers> In my office anyway
<mungojerry> grr any thunderbird users know how to forward an html email as html, when plain text is your usual default? don't wanna have to go through all the menus to turn on html and then go and turn it off
<awilkins> shift-foward?
<awilkins> (I think it's hold a modifier key and push the button... shift may be it)
<mungojerry> awilkins: woo, it does something!
<mungojerry> i think you've got it !
<mungojerry> thanks
<mungojerry> saved me a cumulative 10 mins per week
<awilkins> I too find that damned annoying
<awilkins> Alas, I have to use Outlook now
<mungojerry> heh
<mungojerry> tb3 is nice
<awilkins> I like tb3 less because it doesn't handle gmail right
<awilkins> It doesn't have a label feature - just folders. So it downloads your mail repeatedly and wastes disk space, and returns multiple hits to most searches when you want one
<BigRedS> awilkins: that's exactly what I dislike Gmail for. It doesn't have a folder feature, just labels :)
<awilkins> Combined with being forced to use Outlook to access NHS email, that's ushered TB off my computers in favour of the gmail web interface
<BigRedS> I am generally annoyed by the fact that nobody actually implements IMAP
<mungojerry> awilkins: which version of exchange does NHS use?
<awilkins> Although I think I may have a route into the NHS email thing... I may have a crack at it for my virtuous U^3 task
 * mungojerry uses zimbra
<awilkins> mungojerry, Not sure which version of Exchange we use .. we were on "Samsung Contact" which had an accessible IMAP server
<mungojerry> imap is possible on exchange too
<awilkins> But they dare not expose the Exchange IMAP to the internet, because it increases the attack surface
<awilkins> They only expose Exchange to the internet through an XML-RPC gateway now
<mungojerry> i wish tb worked with activesync
<awilkins> MS bought it from some israeli security outfit
<mungojerry> my zimbra server handles activesync brilliantly, but tb requires imap+ ical etc
<awilkins> I think the problem with Activesync is that you need some kind of patented / not free licensed thing for the client
<mungojerry> oh :(
<mungojerry> i wonder who pays for it on my android
<awilkins> Yes, you can't get the client from the Android sources, we've looked
<awilkins> I think I've got a way of using the Evolution OWA plugin
<mungojerry> i would buy a tb activesync plugin
<awilkins> Just need to write something to penetrate the gateway wrapper
<mungojerry> awilkins: isn't there also a proxy that handles exchange like you need it so
<awilkins> Which I reckon I have the references for, just not the time to research and implement
<mungojerry> an OSS proxy sitting between exchange
<awilkins> There may be  ; the IMAP port is up but you can only see it from the internal network (so you can use TB inside)
<awilkins> But the NHS network is mostly segregated from the internet ; we have a somewhat limited gateway and people are very strict about what passes through it
<awilkins> Since I have Outlook I'm not overly annoyed (although Outlook is bobbins and so is Exchange - we have a 200MB limit on our mailboxes, the search is like treacle, etc)
<awilkins> I sincerely wish they'd just bought some email appliances from Google
<awilkins> If they can provide an 8GB mailbox with near instant search for nothing more than the opportunity to rifle through my mundane and boring communiques, I'm sure you get great value for $50 a year
<danfish> awilkins: an alternative but clunky way would be to have offlineimap running inside NHSnet, the from there to gmail
<mungojerry> there's another product but i can't think of the name
<mungojerry> it talks exchange on one side, but handles imap etc when the client wants stuff
<filo1234> Hi guys, where gdm gets information diplayed on login screen, like exit button, or Desktop Session chooser, or position about logo or login field?
<danfish> mungojerry: I know the one you mean but can't remember the name. Doesn't work with NHS mail.
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jonathan Riddell] conf.kde.in Slides - http://www.kdedevelopers.org/node/4397
<awilkins> NHS mail is only OWA / XMLRPC via a gateway from the outside
<awilkins> Evolution has the OWA/XMLRPC component but not the gateway part
<mungojerry> yeah, evolution sucks just as badly as outlook...although allow you to run a client on linux though
<awilkins> I think I've found the relevant gubbins for the gateway part but I don't have the time or expertise to write it into a plugin for Evolution or Tbird
<awilkins> Is there OWA support for Tbird?
<awilkins> That might be a bit easier to write a gateway bit for because it's Javascript / XUL hmm? My C++ is not hot.
<mungojerry> awilkins: not last time i looked, however i have no need yet...until the fascists change everything
<awilkins> http://peterkao.com/2008/08/21/howto-configure-microsoft-exchange-and-outlook-web-access-for-thunderbird/
<awilkins> Seems there may be such a thing
<mungojerry> hmm need food
<dogmatic69> i need to downgrade ruby gems and it seems like this can/should be done in apt-get.. anyone know how?
<awilkins> dogmatic69, Synaptic has a "force older version" option so I suppose apt-get must have too
<awilkins> Is it that you add =<version number> to your package string?
<dogmatic69> http://josh.st/2005/07/23/rollbackdowngrade-using-apt-get/
<awilkins> Yup, it is
<dogmatic69> where do i get the right string to stick on the end then?
<dogmatic69> need gem 1.4.x
<dogmatic69> got 1.6.x
<nperry_> !info sun-java6-jdk
<lubotu3> Package sun-java6-jdk does not exist in maverick
<awilkins> dogmatic69, If you do apt-cache showpkg it will spew a large list of stuff, the top of which shows you which versions are available
<nperry_> Where has sun-java6-jdk gone
<nperry_> It was in canonicals partner repo.
<AlanBell> to oracle?
<screen-x> nperry_: partner
<mungojerry> hmm does anyone else check their 20p pieces compulsively to see if they have the valuable ones without a date on?
<AlanBell> I had noticed a lack of it in Natty
<screen-x> doh
 * screen-x reads
<nperry_> screen-x: Nope gone..
<nperry_> OpenJDK doesn't cut it.
<AlanBell> nperry_: seems to be there http://archive.canonical.com/dists/maverick/partner/binary-i386/Packages
<awilkins> Could you tell me what problem you are experiencing with OpenJDK? Just out of interest as a Java developer - I've been using it by default and not so far had problems from what I've been doing.
<dogmatic69> awilkins: that does not give a large list.. only about 10 lines witch more than half are dependencies
<AlanBell> nperry_: not in amd64 though, just a jre there
<dogmatic69> http://www.pastie.org/1655604
<mungojerry> http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9214002/Safari_IE_hacked_first_at_Pwn2Own
<AlanBell> Natty has nothing in the partner repo at all at the moment
<Myrtti> I've got a linguistic problem again
<nperry_> awilkins: I'm compiling Android Open Source Project
<nperry_> And it errors out
<nperry_> While building.
<DJones> Myrtti: In what way?
<Myrtti> SMS is an acronym and is spelled. To my ear SMS sounds like it starts with a vowel. Is it AN SMS or A SMS?
<awilkins> Myrtti, I would say "an"
<mungojerry> an SMS, or a if you spell it out
<popey> most people call it Text, not SMS these days :(
<mungojerry> a Simple Messaging Service text or whatever in
<mungojerry> txt
<popey> i was in a pub years ago when mobile phones first started doing text, i had a nokia phone and it beeped
<DJones> I'd say "an" or pronounce "a" to sound like hay
<popey> ... --- ...
<DJones> without the "h"
<popey> maybe not, what's M in morse
<popey> --
<popey> so ... -- ...
<popey> old guy next to me turned round and said "What's SMS?"
<popey> "wut?"
<awilkins> Sexual Mating Service
<popey> "Someone just beeped out SMS in morse"
<screen-x> brilliant :)
<popey> he was a radio operator in the 2nd world war :)
<nucc1> awilkins, was that english?
<awilkins> My wife's phone still beeps SMS in Morse (Nokia 3310)
<nucc1> SMS has become a word on its own.
<dogmatic69> does anyone know what the older version of rubygems is called or where i can find this type of info so that i can downgrade it
<mungojerry> One of the most often asked questions about grammar has to do with the choice of articles â a, an, the â to precede an abbreviation or acronym. Do we say an FBI agent or a  FBI agent? Although "F" is obviously a consonant and we would precede  any word that begins with "F" with "a," we precede FBI with "an" because  the first sound we make when we say FBI is not an "f-sound," it is an  "eff-sound."  Thus we say we're going to a PTO meetin
<Myrtti> the old jingle for Finnish main news had morse code beeps that spelled out YLE (National Broadcasting Company)
<awilkins> dogmatic69, http://packages.ubuntu.com/hardy/interpreters/rubygems
<awilkins> Flick between releases
<popey> happy days, when SMS first started
<popey> my wife (then girlfriend) was on one network and I was on another, we had to hunt around for foreign message centres to bounce our SMS's off to go cross-network
<bigcalm> Unhappy days when early phones only did upper case text
<mungojerry> hated sending SMS until i got swype on my phone
<DJones> swype o/
<bigcalm> Or they did lowercase, but it was painful to use it
<screen-x> popey: I didn't realise there wasn't cross networking sms routing from the beginning.
<mungojerry> although swyp esucks on my htc desire :(
<Myrtti> I'm still bitter that Swype isn't available on the market
<Myrtti> and especially bitter that Finnish Swype isn't available other than OEM at all
<mungojerry> Myrtti: it's available though
<DJones> mungojerry: desire or desire hd?
<screen-x> Annoys me that I have to pick up my phone to send/recieve sms, when I am at my desk.
<mungojerry> desire DJones
<bigcalm> screen-x: have a nokia and pc sweet then ;)
<awilkins> We have a email to SMS gateway
<bigcalm> suite
<DJones> mungojerry: Ah, I've got it on my HD & its excellent
<screen-x> pc sweet :)
<mungojerry> when i boot the phone, often swype isn't enabled, and i have to turn it off and on again in the iunput settings
<awilkins> You just send a mail to <number>@<gateway> and off it goes
 * bigcalm grins and sighs
<screen-x> mungojerry: htc desire has a not-quite multitouch screen :(
<screen-x> awilkins: presumably you have to have an account at gateway?
<awilkins> screen-x, 'tis an NHS thing ; I suspect it only works through our SMTP server
<DJones> Myrtti: Might be worth registering with the swype website & next time they open up for testing you might get an invite, I registered ages ago and got onto the testing program, so free swype for me :)
<DJones> Myrtti:
<mungojerry> DJones: it's still free i think
<DJones> Myrtti: http://beta.swype.com/
<bigcalm> I tried swype early last year and found that it wasn't for me
<awilkins> screen-x, I've had phone clients that would send SMS through a phone on a USB tether
<dogmatic69> awilkins: i just see 1.8 and 1.9... where do you see a place to flick through the versions?
<awilkins> There was a nice keyboardy thing for PalmOS
<mungojerry> swype helps me type 10x faster
<mungojerry> other keyboards are available too
<mungojerry> i resisted the urge to go to subway today only because some pavement works meant that my journey would be extended by 2 minutes
<DJones> mungojerry: Just looked for swype in the android market & can't see it
<mungojerry> DJones: sorry , by freely available, i mean that the beta program is still open
<DJones> mungojerry: It is, although I think they only send invites out every now & again
<Myrtti> DJones: I am registered and I do have Swype
<Myrtti> DJones: the beta version, which doesn't have Finnish
<DJones> Myrtti: Ah, I thought you meant you didn't have it at all, I understand know
<jgjones> very accurate ;-) https://twitpic.com/484tbx
<mungojerry> DJones: this page seems to suggest you would have problems on your desire hd too. are you running sense or a different OS ? http://forum.swype.com/showthread.php?2279-Swype-is-Configured-for-Another-Device-Flashing-Blue-Box
<screen-x> jgjones: thats not very nice
 * screen-x notices who posted it..
<selinuxium> Hmmm... Anyone had any experience with sshfs?
<selinuxium> hi everyone!  o/
<screen-x> hi selinuxium
<screen-x> I have used it..
<selinuxium> 'lo screen-x
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Ralph Janke] Inaugural Open Data Waterloo Region CodeFest! on Saturday, March 12, 2011 - http://drupal.txwikinger.me.uk/content/inaugural-open-data-waterloo-region-codefest-saturday-march-12-2011
<jgjones> screen-x, :-P now that you noticed who posted it :)
<mungojerry> i just remembered what i wanted to ask u guys about.
<mungojerry> anyone used splashtop OS? http://www.splashtop.com/os
<mungojerry> it seems they recently opened it up for nonOEM
<popey> yes
<mungojerry> popey: yes, to splashtop? used it recently?
 * mungojerry likes the idea of 5 second boot, but not sure if it is possible on his eee
<popey> yes
<mungojerry> tell me more :P
<mungojerry> seems to be a windows only installer :(
<popey> it came pre-delivered on my acer revo
<popey> i used it about twice
<popey> about a year ago
<gord> heh yeah i remember that thing
<mungojerry> you're not really selling it to me :P
<popey> it has lots of floss apps with their names redacted
<popey> so firefox is "Web broser"
<popey> pidgin is "Chat"
<popey> etc
<popey> without the typos
<popey> it's not compelling. i can see it would be if your "main" os is slow
<popey> but if it _is_ the main os then you'll likely feel hampered
<DJones> mungojerry: I've seen teh problem when there are OTA updates, but other than that, I've haven't had any problems with swype, even then, all it took was a change input method & then back to swype to fix
<popey> I would personally recommend crunchbang for eee pc
<popey> i installed crunchbang statler on my eee 900 - works a treat
<mungojerry> popey: used crunchbang in the past, but took as long to boot as ubuntu
<mungojerry> DJones: do you ever reboot?
<DJones> mungojerry: Maybe once a week if something has pinched all the memory & taskiller doesn't get it back
<mungojerry> oh. i switch my phone off at night
<screen-x> mungojerry: we are building up a picture of your evening routine ;-)
<DJones> I just switch onto silent & charge iton the bedside cabinet
<mungojerry> screen-x: you're right, phone off, head under duvet.
<mungojerry> 10 hrs kip
<screen-x> 10 hours \o/
<mungojerry> it's what we aim for
<mungojerry> still feel knackered all day though
<DJones> Can't remember when I last had 10 hours sleep, the best I can manage is about 8 if I'm exhausted
<bigcalm> 4 - 7 is optimal
<mungojerry> depends on the person
<bigcalm> Hence the range :)
<mungojerry> mrs MJ has chronic fatigue and i think it leaks onto me somehow
<popey> mungojerry: it boots quickly here
<mungojerry> i used to survive on 5 hrs
<popey> 6 hours kip here
<DJones> I normally have about 6 hrs
<mungojerry> just think what i could be doing with 4 hrs a night extra
<screen-x> I get between 6 and 8, would like 10 though :)
<mungojerry> tbh baby wakes me up an hour b4 that, but doesn't cry
<mungojerry> i just hear him burbling and chatting
<mungojerry> so its prob 9 hrs for me
<mungojerry> i feel v sick and rubbish if i get <8
<popey> how old is baby?
<screen-x> mungojerry: you have a baby that sleeps for 9 hours?
<popey> ours used to sleep for 12
<mungojerry> :D
<popey> still do mostly
<mungojerry> plus he has a nap during the day for 1-2 hr
 * czajkowski clearly missed the lesson on how to sleep 
<czajkowski> 3 hrs a night is al I get
<mungojerry> :-O
<screen-x> czajkowski: yah, but then you come in here all drowsy
<mungojerry> there's a pixies song about a man who's spent so much of his life sleeping he can stay awake the reset of his years
<czajkowski> screen-x: aye today mostly I function though pretty ok
<screen-x> czajkowski: yeah, if you usually only get 3 hours sleep, you do amazingly!
<mungojerry> maggie thatcher famously survived on 4hrs a night
<mungojerry> 3 vs 9 hmm..i could be getting so much more done
<mungojerry> maybe i'd end up just playing minecraft and drinking
<screen-x> mungojerry: yeah, keep the sleep :)
<DJones> mungojerry: An extra 6 hours of awekness, just think how much longer you could spend watching the shopping channels on sky/virgin
<davmor2> czajkowski: the lesson was called English honest :)
<mungojerry> when i was a student i used to go out to clubs etc till 4am then get into college for my 9am computing lab
<dogmatic69> how do i set an environment var
<mungojerry> maybe my body is getting payback for those days
<screen-x> dogmatic69: export foo=bah
<mungojerry> i can't believe the splashtop OS requires windows to install...that's just super dumb :( no ISO
<dogmatic69> screen-x: i have that in .bashrc
<dogmatic69> is that the right place?
<screen-x> dogmatic69: yeah
<nucc1> dogmatic69, it feels wierd to see a cakephp wizard asking for help :p
<popey> anyone got 5 mins and the gimp fancy editing an image for me?
<popey> <- at work on windows pc and no art skillz
<dogmatic69> then i did . ~/.bashrc
<popey> technically it just needs resizing, not editing :)
<dogmatic69> nucc1: im not a server admin... even less when it comes to ruby :/
<DJones> popey: Gimp for windows? although that wouldn't solve the art skillz problem
<dogmatic69> popey: MS paint...
<screen-x> popey: winscp convert winscp ;-)
 * popey gives up and asks elsewhere
<dogmatic69> popey: just resizing i can do
<DJones> I've got gimp for windows handy
<nucc1> dogmatic69, don't mind me, you're awesome.
 * AlanBell has gimp
<dogmatic69> m$ gimp is pretty low on features
<dogmatic69> nucc1: lol
<DJones> dogmatic69: Yeah, but it will resize
<AlanBell> will it blend?
<awilkins> Paint.NET isn't too bad for Windows
<DJones> AlanBell: It has a Blend option under Paint Tools
<hellocatfood> Hi
<screen-x> hi hellocatfood
<hellocatfood> hi screen-x
<hellocatfood> I'm just having a bit of trouble with external monitors, is this a good place to get help with it?
<screen-x> hellocatfood: try, if anyone can help you, they will
<hellocatfood> Cool
<bigcalm> popey: I rather like cabbage
 * awilkins still has some kimchi outside
<selinuxium> I am trying to mount a remote Suse point to a 10.4 server and can't seem to get it to function as expected. it just mounts d?????????   :/
<hellocatfood> Well, I've attached a projector to my laptop. It's able to mirror the screen easily, but I want to extend the desktop onto this monitor. Whenever I untick mirror screens it asks me to log out/in again but then just goes back to mirroring screens
<BigRedS> hellocatfood: are you using the proprietary drivers?
<BigRedS> It's _really_ not a good idea to use them unless you really need them
<hellocatfood> Yep, ATI Radeon 4500
<BigRedS> 'cause they're really rather poor
<hellocatfood> I really need them
<hellocatfood> As I'm doing visual performance with Pure Data
<BigRedS> Ah. I couldn't get multiple monitors working on mine
<hellocatfood> And without them I get rather crappy framerate
 * gord just stops by to award hellocatfood the most insane irc nick he has seen all day ;)
<hellocatfood> gord: haha thanks, I get that often :-)
<ali1234> why don't you mirror the display in the projector?
<directhex> fglrx is far better than it was
<hellocatfood> It mirrors by default when I plug it in, but I'm doing a performance where the visuals will be displayed full screen on the projector and I'll be controlling it on my laptop
<directhex> hellocatfood, are you using the catalyst control center to do the multi-monitor setup?
<ali1234> it might be labelled as "rear projection mode" in the projector menus
<hellocatfood> directhex: No, using System > Monitors
<directhex> hellocatfood, try CCC. i know with nvidia-glx nvidia have their own dumb way of doing multi-monitor
<hellocatfood> directhex: Thanks, will give it a try when I'm with the projector next
<BigRedS> I couldn't get ccc to work, but YMWHV
<directhex> fglrx-amdcccle package
<hellocatfood> directhex: The strange thing is I've got an external monitor at home that works perfectly i.e. I can extend the desktop onto it with no trouble
<mungojerry> projectors seem to be the major cause of embarrassment when using linux in a corporate environment
<hellocatfood> Thanks for the advice directhex I'll give it a try
<hellocatfood> mungojerry: yeah
<ali1234> never had a problem
<hellocatfood> mungojerry: Once I plugged one in and it crashed my computer. Upon restart my presentation was corrupted and wouldn't open.
<hellocatfood> eep
<hellocatfood> But generally speaking I've had relatively few problems
<screen-x> hellocatfood: nightmare
<hellocatfood> screen-x: luckily for me it was a short presentation that consisted mainly of images that I had backed up. Still annoying though
<hellocatfood> It's mainly the whole mirroring/extending issue that I've encountered that's causing me grief
<ali1234> don't try to mirror the screen on the computer
<ali1234> use the built in function of the projector
<ali1234> wait
<hellocatfood> ali1234: I'm not trying to mirror, I'm trying to extend
<czajkowski> TheOpenSourcerer: AlanBell ye have mail
<mungojerry> i was running kde3.5 at the time, that most people thought was either vista or mac os
<ali1234> you're talking about cloning aren't you
<hellocatfood> ali1234: cloning? please explain
<ali1234> same display on two outputs
<czajkowski> TheOpenSourcerer: actually you don't your mail just got returned to me
<screen-x> ali1234: I wondered why you were talking about rear projection..
<ali1234> not mirroring as in horizontal or vertical flip
<hellocatfood> ali1234: no
<hellocatfood> Ok, let me put it another way. Say you're doing a presentation using Openoffice impress and only your laptop and a projector. On the projector is the full screen slides. On your computer you may have the notes from the presentation
<ali1234> right
<ali1234> but you don't want to flip the output for eg rear projection
<hellocatfood> No
<ali1234> so you're not mirroring
<ali1234> not even in the sense of cloning
<hellocatfood> No, not mirroring
<ali1234> you're just doing standard dual head
<hellocatfood> Yeah
<ali1234> well, have you tried rebooting the computer with the projector plugged...
<hellocatfood> Yep
<hellocatfood> and it just defaults back to mirroring
<ali1234> cloning
<hellocatfood> yeah
<ali1234> yeah it will... at first
<ali1234> but here is an interesting fact i discovered
<ali1234> the standard dual head tool of gnome actually remembers your settings for different monitors
<ali1234> so you have a laptop, and you plug into a external monitor, configure it all...
<ali1234> then you go and plug into a different external monitor, and it "forgets" your settings
<popey> ooo, didnt know that
<ali1234> but if you go back to the first monitor, it will remember the settings for it
<ali1234> this mechanism also seems quite buggy
<mungojerry> talking of buggy..firefox 4 is shating my machine on a regular basis
<mungojerry> /shating/shafting
<ali1234> it probably is even more buggy on proprietary drivers so i suggest do what directhex said and use the ATI tool, not the gnome one
<hellocatfood> ali1234: Thanks, will give it a try. Just hope it all works for the performance otherwise I'm screwed
<ali1234> but i have no experience of ATI since i only use nvidia, and my laptop has intel graphics which "just works"
 * bigcalm ponders plugging his laptop into something with hdmi to see if it'll work out of the box
<hellocatfood> I'm doign that now ;-)
<hellocatfood> It clones it all well and good
<ali1234> if all else fails i suggest printing your notes
<ali1234> actually i suggest doing that anyway
<ali1234> always good to have a backup plan
<hellocatfood> ali1234: That was a hypothetical situation. Next thursday I'm doing a video performance (VJ-ing)
<hellocatfood> And for that I need to be able to extend the desktop
<mungojerry> or one of those big magnifying glasses
<ali1234> VJ-ing? is that a real thing?
<hellocatfood> ali1234: yeah. It goes under many names but it's essentially doing video visuals at concerts
<ali1234> yeah i have seen it
<ali1234> i always figured they just loaded some video clips into the software and hit "go"
<hellocatfood> Nah
<hellocatfood> Depends what thing you're going to see
<hellocatfood> It can be either
<hellocatfood> Can be compared to lisetning to a CD or going to a concert
<hellocatfood> there's just something different about seeing it done live
<hellocatfood> but anyways, that's a topic for a PhD thesis ;-)
<hellocatfood> right, time to restart and see if it worked
<popey> at uds one of the Ubuntu studio guys had a VJ app he'd written
<popey> it was pre-loaded with all his videos, and had a button he could tap to get it in sync with the beat of the music
<popey> was quite neat
<czajkowski> popey: aye luisbg has that
<czajkowski> rather funky
<popey> it was him
<popey> he wrote it
<mungojerry> is it my poor memory or did ubuntu used to have less kernel updates requiring a reboot?
<czajkowski> nods
<czajkowski> he works for Collabora now
<ali1234> i once saw luke vibert, it was literally just him sitting on stage behind a laptop, pressing two keys to trigger two samples over and over
<BigRedS> mungojerry: it used to be a lot less insistent
<mungojerry> BigRedS: maybe certain kernel updates only came if you enabled backports or something?
<BigRedS> mmm, perhaps. I wonder if it used to just install kernels as any other package
<mungojerry> i've run ubuntu since 2005 and i never remeber having such low uptimes
<BigRedS> and only now it feels the need to go "you have a new kernel and WILL boot into it"
<screen-x> mungojerry: you dont have to reboot just because a new kernel has been installed..
<mungojerry> screen-x: i don't HAVE to...but i remember less kernel updates
<mungojerry> also, regarding yesterday's convo about close or quit...my banshee is using virt 874m res 477m...and i'm not even playing any music
<ali1234> ubuntu used to have a less annoying way of notifying you about updates that probably resulted in less reboot requests
<ali1234> update frequency was about the same though
 * bigcalm can't contain himself and mutters 'fewer' before going to make a cuppa tea
<mungojerry> less frequent :P
<mungojerry> is that allowed?
<bigcalm> Indeed
<bigcalm> 'frequent' is singular
 * popey cuddles bigcalm 
<mungojerry> lol
<bigcalm> Less frequent, fewer frequents ;)
<ali1234> "less reboot requests" is wrong
<ali1234> but i don't care
<mungojerry> i think my swappiness is wrong
<shauno> it only goes back to jan09, but ksplice's chart was interesting; http://www.desktoplinux.com/files/misc/ksplice_uptrack_reboots.jpg
<mungojerry> http://i.imgur.com/aEjkQ.jpg
<mungojerry> shauno: i only do security updates on RHEL and i'm sure there's not that many
<screen-x> Lyx seems to be behaving differently when started from terminal, to when started from menu. http://i.imgur.com/DZvgl.png
<screen-x> Was going to strace, to see what it was failing to read/write, but I couldn't reproduce the problem.
<mungojerry> screen-x: what command is the  menu launcher running
<screen-x> mungojerry: lyx %F
<mungojerry> hmm dunno
<mungojerry> i'm amazed at how leaky programs get after a few weeks
<mungojerry> hotot: 600mb resident , docky, 300mb resident...
<tugrik> if I've got a partition listed as mounted, but the physical media isn't there any more, if there any way to force it to unmount that's more effective than "umount -f"?
<DJones> tugrik: Wouldn't happen to be a USB stick would it?
<tugrik> it was, yes
<DJones> I've got a similar thing, desktop icon for a usb stick thats been safely removed, but the icon is still sat on the desktop
<mungojerry> lsof shows nothing?
<tugrik> i've got two entries in the output of "mount", it seems rather lame to have to reboot to remove them
<DJones> I narrowed it down to a corruptly formatted stick, but the only solution I found was a reboot
<screen-x> tugrik: what happens if you ls the mountpoint?
<tugrik> yeah, nothing in lsof output
<tugrik> there's nothing there
<mungojerry> is it present in mtab?
<tugrik> yes
<screen-x> tugrik: then you could edit mtab manually (at your own risk, not recommended, etc)
<mungojerry> or maybe trace umount to find out what it's doing
<tugrik> can I just manually edit /etc/mtab?  or am I asking for trouble? ;)
<tugrik> ah
<tugrik> what screen-x said :)
<ZoeR> Hello all!
<daubers> tugrik: -l will do a lazy unmount and is sometimes a bit effective than l
<daubers> f sorry
<daubers> umount -l /path/to/broken/mount
<tugrik> ah
<bigcalm> Can you have a CNAME entry in one domain record that points to another domain?
<tugrik> *blush*
<tugrik> I may have been a little over-enthusiastic in marking files immutable, the problem has now "gone away"
<imexil> popey, not sure if this was already pointed out to you but in the new (great) episode it was mentioned that browser tabs were "invented" by Firefox but iirc Opera was there first ;)
<ali1234> lol
<BigRedS> bigcalm: yeah
<BigRedS> it's where they're mostly used IME
<danfish> bigcalm: pretty sure you can yes - my dyndns point to anbother domain
<tugrik> and mungojerry, cheers, strace was a help
<bigcalm> Thanks guys. I thought you could. Looks like everydns is just being slow then
<popey> imexil: :) it has, numerous times :)
<bigcalm> Just seen the ice-cream van trundle past in the pouring rain. Good luck to him I say
<imexil> I thought so :-D Propably from all Norwegian based/loving listeners in an huge outrage :-D
<ali1234> opera wasn't first
<ali1234> and neither was firefox
<imexil> so who was ali1234?
<ali1234> ibrowse on amiga
<ali1234> but the fact is that firefox was the first that more than about 10 people actually used
<imexil> oi!
<ali1234> the only innovative thing firefox has ever done is chuck out all the bloat
<ali1234> but they seem hell-bent on adding it all back in now
<popey> never seen the attraction with opera
<ali1234> it has mouse gestures!
<imexil> It used to be way faster than Mozilla
<ali1234> how can you not like mouse gestures!
<BigRedS> imexil: ISTR it first appeared as an add-on for IE
<popey> :)
 * popey gestures to ali1234 
<imexil> Well point was really unfortunately it wasn't a product of OpenSource :(
<Baikonur> i used opera for a while, back when i learned there are other browsers than IE :)
<imexil> yet again
<ali1234> what ever has been?
<imexil> Well that was the discussion all about and it is really hard to find something.
<ali1234> i mean, except for everything made by computing industry prior to about 1983
<imexil> One thing that I could name now is BitCoin
<imexil> Haven't seen something like that in the propriety world of sw
<Baikonur> that might count if some one actually starts to use it
<ali1234> yeah, bitcoin is too crazy
<ali1234> maybe tabbed browsing wasn't open source... but the www itself was
<ali1234> and what about... bittorrent?
<Baikonur> i have bitcoin running, and i have 5 bitpence there, but i don't even know what it's used for
<alexcockell> #hamradio
<ali1234> it's not used for anything
<bigcalm> How does one clear DNS cache in linux?
<alexcockell> Not sure.
<screen-x> bigcalm: there isnt a dns cache, unless you have installed one
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Ralph Janke] Drupal Q&A site at stackexchange.com - http://drupal.txwikinger.me.uk/content/drupal-qa-site-stackexchangecom
<bigcalm> Humf
 * bigcalm pokes the router then
<screen-x> bigcalm: are you using nscd or dnsmasq?
<bigcalm> screen-x: I have no idea what either of those are :)
<screen-x> bigcalm: probably not using them then ;-)
<bigcalm> screen-x: just what I'm thinking too
<screen-x> bigcalm: you can use a service like http://www.whatsmydns.net/ to check the dns responses recieved by servers in various countries
<bigcalm> Coo. Thanks for that
<mungojerry> tugrik: cool. no probs
<popey> there's an app for benchmarking dns too
<popey> on google code
<popey> http://code.google.com/p/namebench/
 * daubers makes an app to destroy the word "app"
<jpds> danfish: http://dilbert.com/fast/2011-03-03/
<bigcalm> LOL
<imexil> bigcalm: There is also a very sophisticated program from Steve Gibbson (runs on Wine!) http://www.grc.com/dns/benchmark.htm
<popey> noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
<popey> etc
<imexil> You don't like SG then, popey? ;)
<popey> meh
<popey> he's a guy making a living
<popey> i just find him a little OTT
<popey> (like most Americans)
<bigcalm> It's great when CEO from $company confirms for DNS changes to be made and then 20 mins later a VP of $company phones me to ask why their site has gone away
 * bigcalm sighs
<popey> hehe
<bigcalm> It's great that I get to deal with the top dogs of various companies, but it would be great if they could communicate within themselves
<bigcalm> Everything is just great!
<bigcalm> Time for a great big mug of tea
<popey> \o/ tea
<ging> what about a big mug of 3 minute microwave cake
<gord> i would love a tea cake
<ging> gord: did you just say that or was that a script that pics up on the word cake?
 * bigcalm head-desks
 * DJones gets a nice big mug of redbush
<gord> i would love a tea cake
<Azelphur> btw gord / brobostigon back in January I was talking about Anonymous and you made it sound like all they knew how to do was DDoS, I'm curious on what you think of the HBGary attack :P
<Azelphur> if you've heard of it
<bigcalm> I've changed /etc/hosts to point at the site's new IP address. But the server is now timing out. This isn't my afternoon
<ging> gord: now you're just playing with me
<gord> Azelphur, i have no thoughts about that
<gord> just about tea-cakes
<Azelphur> I see :P
<hellocatfood> To ali1234 and directhex thanks for the help regarding connecting to external monitors, using the catalyst menu work (at least via hdmi on my tv)
<gord> sigh, what happened to the sun...
<mungojerry> march is the windy month though
<mungojerry> hey the sun is almost out in london
<popey> its out here
<popey> shining on my screen!
<gord> :(
<mungojerry> popey: http://www.dilbert.com/fast
<popey> heh
 * mungojerry has spent the last hour reading FOI requests at http://www.whatdotheyknow.com
<Laney> what DO they know?
<Laney> not a lot?
<mungojerry> i know a lot more now
 * danfish has livers for his tea tonight
<danfish> and red wine of course
 * bigcalm slaps rackspace
<bigcalm> You tell it to use one document root for both :80 and :443 but it doesn't listen
<bigcalm> *sigh*
<bigcalm> Do my eyes decieve me?
<bigcalm> Plesk uses php3?
<shauno> somehow I wouldn't find that surprising
<bigcalm> A client's shell uses darkblue on black for directory names. How might I apply a better colour scheme?
<shauno> a pointy stick?
<bigcalm> :)
<shauno> $LS_COLORS hurts my head, I'd just copy it across from a sane env
<davmor2> bigcalm: that's easy gauge out their eyes and give them a Braille tablet
<bigcalm> :|
<bigcalm> This is for my benefit
<bigcalm> Client doesn't ssh to their webhost
<davmor2> bigcalm: Oh sorry thought it was a consumer request :)  can you not just change it locally using dev tools or fire bug?
<bigcalm> firebug? that's a web browser plugin
<bigcalm> I am very confused now :)
<shauno> well, the short answer is just to edit the envar LS_COLORS to match your preference ;)
<bigcalm> I managed to make do by putting my nose up to the monitor.
<bigcalm> Don't need to ssh to that server too offten, so I can cope I guess
<shauno> dircolors --print-database >~/.dircolors   then change the line reading 'DIR 01;34' to something more sensible.  it'll be parsed when you login, so it'll "stick"
<shauno> (I use "DIR 01" so it's just bold but not coloured.  makes it whiter than a normal file on my term)
<shauno> guess quicker fix would be 'unalias ls' so it's not running ls --color=auto.  maybe easier to remember for next time :)
<bigcalm> How does one set up their linux box to share mp3s in a way that iTunes will see it without fuss?
<bigcalm> (iTunes on another machine within the network)
<AlanBell> toodles
<bigcalm> Taaraa
<popey> http://meta.askubuntu.com/questions/1089/community-promotion-ads-1h-2011/1099#1099
<popey> vote vote vote UUPC up!
<popey> (please)
<ali1234> bigcalm: you need daap sharing i think
<bigcalm> ali1234: just reading about that: http://hints.macworld.com/article.php?story=20030711140157143
<ali1234> i think rhythmbox or banshee has a plugin, one of those. can't remember which, i only use spotify now
<bigcalm> It's a headless server I'll be using
<bigcalm> Vote Up requires 15 reputation
 * bigcalm gives up and mentally likes it
<popey> bah
<shauno> voted .. pretend it's bigcalm by proxy :p
<bigcalm> Most kind
<popey> answer some questions :)
<popey> unanswered ones to get good karma/points/whatever they are
<bigcalm> You must have at least 5 reputation on Ask Ubuntu to answer a question
 * bigcalm thinks this system does not favour new users
<arsen> why is it popey is a name i see everywhere
<arsen> aer you THE popey ?!
<shauno> simple.  popey's everywhere.
<arsen> \4:D
<brobostigon> i reckon my dad is a politician at heart, he does everything to avoid answering questions, with proper answers.
<bigcalm> Would you like a tea or coffee?
<brobostigon> coffee, please.
<bigcalm> Yes please
<bigcalm> See, you wouldn't make for a politician
<brobostigon> yes, lke that.
<brobostigon> its damn annoying,
<popey> hello arsen
<arsen> :))
<arsen> ive no idea where i know the name popey from, and the one i know was probably not you
<AlanBell> !popey
<lubotu3> popey is the UK alternative to elvis.
<arsen> oh its AlanBell !
<arsen> i do remember AlanBell being a very helpful person in the past :p
<popey> pffft
<popey> ;)
<AlanBell> really?
<popey> lies
<arsen> i think you helped me fix something.
<gord> okay so i normally get annoyed with country selections, "is it uk, gb, england?" but this one takes the cake. it *was* uk, but they put united kingdom in the g's where great britain would be...
<daubers> Evening
<shauno> it irks me when they expect 'gb'.
<shauno> was once told our cctld was meant to be .gb, but we beat ukraine to it and ruined it before it was properly standardized.  this makes no sense to me.  GB is an island, not a country.
<safiyyah> hi all need help with printer
<safiyyah> I have a brother MFC-J265, my HP broke down :( Anyway, I have installed the printer but getting nothing as far as the scanner. It is an all in one with fax... but I won't be using the fax
<safiyyah> help anyone?
<gr33npeace> safiyyah: do you hplib installed?
<gr33npeace> safiyyah: what i normally do is to plug in the scanner, and then run hp-scan from the command line
<gr33npeace> safiyyah: it's far from ideal... but it does the trick for the (very) small amount of scanning I do
<safiyyah> gr33npeace,  i just came with a brother printer today
<safiyyah> my hp died
<gr33npeace> oops
<safiyyah> so hplip isnt doing me any good
<safiyyah> i have never had a brother
<gr33npeace> sorry... didn't read properly!
<safiyyah> so its cool and all.... but hp... the scanner just works... this one doesn't ... am on google now finding info
<safiyyah> lol
<gr33npeace> are you using Xsane?
<gr33npeace> seems to be some information on here: http://welcome.solutions.brother.com/bsc/public_s/id/linux/en/faq_scn.html
<safiyyah> thanx gr33npeace :) am on it now
<gr33npeace> any time... good luck!
<mungojerry1> popey: i'm next to you in the user league for askubuntu last quarter :)
<mungojerry1> http://stackexchange.com/leagues/31/quarter/askubuntu/2011-01-01/1960#1960
<mungojerry1> everyone's out tonight and mungojerry is in doing his backups
<popey> didnt know there were league tables!
<safiyyah> brb reboot
<shauno> *gasp* the tables have a big red number next to popey?!  slacker!
<DJones> shauno: File a bug
<popey> heh
<DJones> popey: I do wonderhow you find time to do any "paid" work with all the time you put into answering questions on the forums/askubuntu/irc/mailing list & others, are you sure you've not been cloned
<mungojerry1> and does your employer not notice?
<popey> hah
<popey> I am self employed :)
<mungojerry1> there seems to be a lot of confusion over where is best to ask questions and report bugs..quite a lot of askubuntu questions seem to be bug reports, and launchpad questions/wiki/irc/mailings also allow questions to be answered
<mungojerry1> and ubuntu forums of course
<popey> http://stackexchange.com/leagues/31/alltime/askubuntu/2010-07-28/612#612
<popey> 77 overall! :D
<mungojerry1> jorge castro must spend all day on that site
<bigcalm> Anybody here know how to configure Tangerine?
<daubers> bigcalm: Peel it and eat it?
<MartijnVdS> Has anyone tried "f.lux"?
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: yes, it made me ill
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: it did? how?
<bigcalm> Similar to motion sickness I guess
<bigcalm> The defaults made me feel sick, I didn't bother to try any other settings
<bigcalm> It might work for you
<gr33npeace> any resident python coders in?  I've been banging my head against the httplib for a while, and after making the connection, the call to "socket.getaddrinfo" is taking forever...
<gr33npeace> are there alternatives?  Don't really want to use urllib(2), as I have a series of requests to handle.
<gr33npeace> httplib seemed like the thing to use...
<daubers> d/win 10
<MartijnVdS> daubers: fail :)
<daubers> MartijnVdS: yup
 * MartijnVdS waits for a ustream channel to start
<popey> \o/ pub-o-clock
<Nafallo> popey: wow. late such...
<bigcalm> A DNS record with a TTL of 86400 would mean that any change would not propogate for 1 day?
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: it means that it can be cached for 24 hours
<bigcalm> Ok
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: so if someone requested the hostname 1 second before you edited it, its caching nameserver will cache for 24 hours
<bigcalm> Aha
<bigcalm> Makes sense
<MartijnVdS> if they did it 23 hours before, they have to wait 1 hour
<bigcalm> Using dig nameserver domain any, I can see that the domain I'm interested in is showing an old IP address
<bigcalm> Does that mean that it's cached or that it hasn't actually been changed?
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: can you pastebin the dig output?
<Nafallo> bigcalm: tell dig to use the authorative name servers for the domain in question?
<MartijnVdS> dig +trace is also cool
<bigcalm> Nafallo: I'm asking the name server specified in the whois result
<bigcalm> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/578534/
<Nafallo> if that has the old IP, it's sounds likely that the change didn't happen then.
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: it says you're asking 192.168.1.1
<bigcalm> Ug
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: try "@ns.rackspace.com" :)
<bigcalm> Ah
<bigcalm> Same result on the A record
<bigcalm> This isn't good
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: look at the last lines.. it'll say which server it used
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: if that's 192.168.1.1, you're not asking ns.rackspace.com :)
<bigcalm> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/578535/
<MartijnVdS> ah yes
<MartijnVdS> and that IP (83.138.191.121) is wrong?
<bigcalm> Yes
<bigcalm> That's the old IP address
<MartijnVdS> then you should have rackspace update the nameserver
<bigcalm> The client wanted it to use an SSL cert. So we had them order a new IP as well
<MartijnVdS> Why?
<bigcalm> There are other sites hosted on that IP as well
<MartijnVdS> You only need an extra IP if you want to use >1 SSL host
<bigcalm> Indeed :)
<bigcalm> There are several with and without SSL
<MartijnVdS> Also, proper browsers support TLS/SNI now :)
<MartijnVdS> http://wiki.apache.org/httpd/NameBasedSSLVHostsWithSNI
<bigcalm> Aaaaaaaaaaany way
<MartijnVdS> SNI \o/
<bigcalm> I need to inform the client that they didn't update the DNS settings
<bigcalm> Which is confusing
 * brobostigon returns
<MartijnVdS> \o brobostigon
<brobostigon> evening MartijnVdS :)
<AlanBell> MartijnVdS: oooh, what browsers do/don't do that then?
 * brobostigon gets everyone real ale.
<Nafallo> I bet wikipedia will have a list. they tend to like lists at that place.
<Nafallo> ^-- AlanBell
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: IE7>, FF2>, Opera8>, Chrome5>
<AlanBell> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Server_Name_Indication#Support
<MartijnVdS> that, yes
<AlanBell> so everything anyone uses except IE6
<AlanBell> bonus
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: WinPhone<7 also isn't supported
<MartijnVdS> some people still use Windows phones
<AlanBell> double bonus
<MartijnVdS> it has a test link
<Nafallo> how about Symbian?
<MartijnVdS> Honeycomb+
<MartijnVdS> gingerbread, not so much
<bigcalm> Have the honeycomb theme running on gingerbread, it's very swish ;)
<bigcalm> So, is gingerbread the last development of 2?
<bigcalm> 2h 5m on battery \o/
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: that's what I heard
 * MartijnVdS wants the xoom
<bigcalm> Bit big to fit in ones pocket
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: great for on the table/sofa
<bigcalm> I'm sure :)
<bigcalm> Netbook / phone do the same to an extent
<bigcalm> Though I use my netbook a lot less since getting the N1
<MartijnVdS> My laptop (13") is nice, but it's too bulky
<MartijnVdS> also, it's very distracting
<MartijnVdS> compared to something that can only do a bit of browsing/imdbing ;)
<bigcalm> I'm sure everything has its use and some people will enjoy some devices more than others
<bigcalm> </skint> :(
<Nafallo> netbook â¥
<AlanBell> http://doodle.com/eucwzx2qdiiiqs5p Saturday 16th is looking strong still
<MartijnVdS> \o/
<HazRPG> I need to be less of a tab horde!
<HazRPG> I swear that says I've got 132 tabs... >_<
<brobostigon> evening HazRPG :)
<HazRPG> brobostigon: evening :)
<HazRPG> I've got chicken hotdogs!
<HazRPG> \o/
<brobostigon> yummy,
<HazRPG> indeed :)
 * HazRPG does not like pork
<HazRPG> I find it smells funny too
<brobostigon> interesting.
<ZoeR>  all
<ZoeR> Hi all
 * ZoeR has no idea where the first 'Hi' went
<brobostigon> evening ZoeR
<Nafallo> hi ZoeR
<ZoeR> How are you all tonight?
<brobostigon> ZoeR: very tired, but i want to stay yp to watch, this week. and you?
<ZoeR> Not bad, thanks. Just been watching 'House' and now have to work.
<brobostigon> not seen that in ages,
 * Nafallo yawns
 * brobostigon gets Nafallo a cuppa.
<Nafallo> relentless would be better, but thanks :-)
<brobostigon> :)
<ZoeR> Relentless is awesome
<ZoeR> I wish they sold the sugar free version in more places 'round here though
<brobostigon> i cant stand those energydrinks, they taste foul.
<zleap> they sell that at the lighthouse in paignton, explains why the young people there are so hyper sometimes
<Nafallo> there is a sugar free version?
<Nafallo> that sounds boring... one less rush to hit ya :-/
<ZoeR> Yes. 'Libertus'. It's in a blue can
<ZoeR> And yes, it's one rush less but I'll take what I can get.
 * Nafallo used to live of relentless, but mostly converted to water since new year
<brobostigon> off*
 * ZoeR used to live off Relentless and Wine Gums but now isn't allowed either because they gave her a sugar addiction
<Nafallo> brobostigon: ta :-)
<ZoeR> Hence why I want more places to stock the blue one
<brobostigon> Nafallo: :)
 * Nafallo inserts an off before the of
<ZoeR> heh
<brobostigon> ZoeR: you got it right, Nafallo didnt.
<ZoeR> Well I suppose I had to be right some time.
<Nafallo> brobostigon: I got it proper right after your correction though :-P
<brobostigon> Nafallo: yes, :)
 * brobostigon plays pedant.
 * Nafallo waits for U1 to finish uploading stuff
<ZoeR> I really should do some work
<Nafallo> I should pack
 * ZoeR decides to have a cup of tea instead
<Nafallo> actually. I should pack tomorrow.
<Nafallo> but I should hang laundry before bed.
 * brobostigon gets ZoeR a twist of rum for her tea, as brobostigon has in his.
<ZoeR> Gah!
 * ZoeR heads for the antihistamines
<brobostigon> oh, sorry,
<ZoeR> hey, no worries
<brobostigon> my apoologies.
 * Nafallo throws out ZoeR's tea and makes a new one
<ZoeR> awww, thanks. :)
<ZoeR> I have to say it was a right pain finding that one out
<ZoeR> Ever tried going to the doctor complaining about feeling really sick after you've been drinking? :)
<brobostigon> i can imagine.i have some bad and weird and awkward allergies myself.
<Nafallo> ZoeR: heh, my father is a doctor... so yeah ;-)
<ZoeR> :D
<Nafallo> oh
<Nafallo> good
<Nafallo> my dance class isn't until 11:30
<Nafallo> I was certain it was at 10am or so
 * brobostigon has an appointment with his hair dresser just after 10am.
 * ZoeR hates morning appointments
<Nafallo> well, I need to pack enough things for a weekend before I leave home :-)
 * brobostigon agree's mostly.
<Nafallo> I bet it'll take me like.. 1h30min to get to the place as well :-/
<ZoeR> If anyone tries to organise a meeting with me and it's before 1pm, I will be hating them all the way through it
<Nafallo> actually. I should probably figure out how I'll get there :-P
<brobostigon> good night everyone, sleep well.
<ZoeR> Goodnight
<brobostigon> good night ZoeR
 * ZoeR needs more tea
<ZoeR> Back in a sec
<Nafallo> lol. tfl thinks I should take the boat at 10:01 :-)
<HazRPG> man, its really warm now
<HazRPG> ZoeR: oh hey, :)
<HazRPG> aww man I just missed brobostigon :(
<HazRPG> shauno!
<HazRPG> https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/Ssc6iL2Qd6hFG3Xu6YgGIw?feat=directlink
<hamitron> it is warm? :/
<Baikonur> the thermos?
 * hamitron is freezing his thingies off
<HazRPG> it is in my house...
 * HazRPG had heating on - but is now off for the heat factor is too much
<hamitron> I reckon a cold house is bad for you
<hamitron> coffee cools down quicker, so you end up drinking more
<HazRPG> me?
<Nafallo> oh. good point.
<Nafallo> I should turn off the heating tomorrow.
<HazRPG> hamitron: check the link :)
<hamitron> a coffee flask...
<ZoeR> Cold houses are definitely bad for you. They encourage mould growth
<hamitron> ZoeR: mold is bad for you?
<ZoeR> yes
<Nafallo> and when I said off, I meant 17 degrees instead of 22 :-P
<hamitron> tbh, I open the window to remove moisture
<ZoeR> http://www.buzzle.com/articles/toxic-black-mold-symptoms-poisoning.html
<Nafallo> ooooh
<Nafallo> poison!
<ZoeR> yeah
 * Nafallo puts on headphones
<ZoeR> it's horrible stuff. gets through the blood-brain barrier
<hamitron> if only I could harvest it to use on people I don't like
<ZoeR> You can grow it fairly easily, if my house is anything to go by
<Nafallo> braaaaains
 * ZoeR will be so glad to move out of here
 * hamitron has the window open
<hamitron> damn cold
<hamitron> :/
<HazRPG> :( nothings showing on the TV :(
<hamitron> you tuned it in?
<HazRPG> its an A/V cable
<HazRPG> shouldn't need tuning
<ZoeR> You can't tune a TV nowadays, can you? They need a digibox
<HazRPG> ZoeR: this tv is from 1991 ;)
<hamitron> ofc you can tune a tv!
<hamitron> ;)
 * ZoeR only has a TV for playing Guitar Hero, so she isn't au fait with how they work
 * hamitron sighs
<hamitron> youngsters ;)
<ZoeR> who is a youngster?
<PalaPad> Definitely not me lol
<zleap> speccys for ever :)
<hamitron> zleap: which you got?
<zleap> zx spectrum 48k+
<hamitron> :)
<ZoeR> Speccys were not as good as the good old CPC!
<zleap> plus the speccy classics 98 cdrom
<zleap> so i can play emulated game
<zleap> s
<hamitron> ZX 128k +2 ;)
<HazRPG> yes!
<HazRPG> one out of 2 works :D!
<HazRPG> although, tis a shame... cos I'd rather had the first one working!
<hamitron> use for spares?
<JamesTait> CPC464 FTW!
<hamitron> tomorrow I am going to say i3 ftw
<hamitron> :)
 * JamesTait goes back to lurking in the shadows.
<PalaPad> They has the nasty tape decks iirc
<ZoeR> yeah
<ZoeR> CPC464 = Read Error B = AAAAAAAAARGH!
<PalaPad> Great for jet set willy 2 though
<zleap> yeah
<zleap> i have the ms dos port of that
<HazRPG> hmm, is the screen meant to go a funny colour when you press play :/
<Nafallo> JamesTait: beauty and beast style?
<zleap> well wasn't jet set will 2 just jet set willy 1 but bigger
<HazRPG> oh, apparently it does
<JamesTait> Nafallo: something like that. :)
<hamitron> HazRPG: probably
<Nafallo> â¥
<HazRPG> time for some bionic granny apparently
<Nafallo> good movie, that is.
<zleap> as latter was for the 48k speccy rather than the 16k speccy
<PalaPad> Wasn't locoscript available for the cpc464 as well?
<zleap> not sure
<ZoeR> Not sure. They had Locomotive BASIC though
 * Nafallo considers ice cream
<zleap> i have a book with a basic to forth interpreter as a program
<hamitron> does stuff for the 16k speccy run in 48k mode?
<zleap> well in effect it had 32k useable memory
<zleap> as 16k was rom,  16k was system and the rest was for prpgrams (binary)
<zleap> as the upper address space was something like 32768 - 65535 or 8000h to FFFFFF hex
<zleap> ffff hex sorry
<zleap> so yeah you can run 16k programs on the 48k
<hamitron> I never spent much time on mine
<hamitron> got it 2nd hand, but had a brand new PC
<zleap> ah
<zleap> you can get .tap (tape) files so can emulate it loading i real time
<hamitron> iirc, it has 4 options on opening screen
 * PalaPad got a free room upgrade and a free business class seat on his flight on his trip this week :)
<zleap> so set it going, go make a drink come back and its loaded
<hamitron> loader, calc, 48k something and something else
<zleap> ah
<zleap> ok the 128k had that
<hamitron> yeh
<hamitron> I also have an older ZX, but no tape device for it
<hamitron> so never tried it
<zleap> it was like the f16 program, you had to load side 2 on the 48k when you wanted to do a mission, but with the 128k speccy you could load the whole game in,  same for road runner game
<zleap> tape decks are cheap
<zleap> google world of spectrum
<zleap> they still make games for the speccy
<hamitron> no point when I have a 128k +2
<hamitron> :)
<PalaPad> My brother in law was a specie game developer
<PalaPad> Speccy
<hamitron> internal tape drive is enough for me
<hamitron> I'd rather look at what else can be plugged in
<hamitron> and how to use it properly
<hamitron> :)
<zleap> i had a +d drive
<zleap> 720k floppy disks
<hamitron> but my new comp upgrade tomorrow will distract me again no doubt
<zleap> 16 speccy games or 15 + a game menu
<hamitron> ZX Spectrum+ is my other one
#ubuntu-uk 2011-03-11
<zleap>  yay 32768 is indeed 8000 h (man that is too geeky)
<zleap> mine is in a carry case\, i think it still works
<hamitron> carry case?
<zleap> yeah
<HazRPG> okay... its official... original owner of this had some creepy games
<hamitron> I got the orig box for the +2
<zleap> speccy fits in it along with a rectangluar tape drive space for the psu
<hamitron> nice
<zleap> or footwarmer
<zleap> and of course the audio leads
<zleap> i have my original recipt somewhere
<zleap> or did have
<hamitron> my fav game was Millionaire
<hamitron> :)
<zleap> i liked chaos : battle of wizards
<zleap> spent hours playing that
<hamitron> anyways
<hamitron> STOP
<zleap> who needs c&c when you can conjour up a gooey blob to wipe out your enemy
<hamitron> if you get me into this too much, my new comp parts will be arriving and staying in the box
<zleap> lol
<zleap> or you will install linux and a speccy emulator and have a very expensive 8 bit computer
<hamitron> and if I do that with a speccy... the shame
<hamitron> hell no
<zleap> lol
<hamitron> I love orig hardware
<hamitron> :)
<zleap> me too,
<hamitron> it is all part of the experience
<zleap> i managed to use norton utils once to change part of a +d disk so it could be read on a PC
<zleap> disk editor
<HazRPG> hamitron: man, so gutted the c64 doesn't work - but the c64c does :(
<HazRPG> wish it was the other way round
<HazRPG> c64c is just a c128 but in a different package
<hamitron> :/
<zleap> ah yeah the play ground arguments speccy vs c64
<HazRPG> :P
<hamitron> I had a NES
<hamitron> ;)
<zleap> ah
<HazRPG> I had a mastersystem
<zleap> never really got in to consoles
<HazRPG> and atari before that
<zleap> went from a speccy to a pc with dos and windows 3.1
<HazRPG> :P
<hamitron> my parents really weren't into the idea of a comp at home, until the 586 cpu was around
<zleap> a pentiums
<PalaPad> Vic20 ftw
<hamitron> until the pentium 2 was out, I only had 1 hour per day on it too
<hamitron> ;)
<HazRPG> man, I thought my mz-721 was bad for loading...
<hamitron> I think that is why the speccy never really impressed me
<zleap> 5 mins and it crashes just as the game loads
<hamitron> 1 hour to play, and street fighter 2 used to take over 10 mins to try loading
<zleap> lol
<hamitron> and it often never started
<zleap> some games were cool though
<hamitron> yeh, I had a simple snooker game
<zleap> i have 4 nations rugby somewhere
<zleap> lol
<hamitron> :))
<zleap> loading up the footy manager games is also interesting
<hamitron> I had one on the PC, so never tried
<zleap> blast from the past,  spurs centre forward gary lineker
<zleap> or what ever position he played
<hamitron> I tried a cricket manager game
<zleap> those games would confuse most kids these days,  why are man u in division 1
<zleap> oh there is no prem league
<hamitron> but I had a SNES with a better cricket game
<zleap> i played pong back in ther very early 80's
<zleap> atari games console thing
<hamitron> :)
<PalaPad> Atari 1600?
<zleap> something like that
<hamitron> it was late 80s when I saw my first console/comp
<zleap> it had a small controller with a control knob on it
<PalaPad> Wasn't there a 2700 too?
<zleap> to move the bat up / down
<zleap> not sure
<PalaPad> Yeah the first one had paddles
<zleap> 2700 was the hacker group wasn't it
<PalaPad> Second one had those analog joysticks with the square base and red button
<zleap> as 2700 was the carrier frequency for the phone line or something
<zleap> i had one of those for the speccy
<HazRPG> oh well, the loader song is good on this game
<zleap> i found a program that made my speccy play hey jude,  i had to hack it to make it play properly
<PalaPad> You can buy them now with mame inside and plugnit straight into tv lol
<PalaPad> Those old joysticks
<zleap> cool
<PalaPad> Saw some for sale last Xmas
<zleap> that would be good at our after school club
<HazRPG> still think it would be better on an actual c64 SID 6581 :(
<zleap> we had a sega up till last year,  we know have a dodgy xbox and a ps2
<PalaPad> We just have a wii
<zleap> actually can the ps2 play dvd's
<PalaPad> For my son
<zleap> we have a wii in the classroom
<HazRPG> zleap: yeah the ps2 can play dvd's :)
<zleap> cool
<HazRPG> all the games are on a dvd disc ;)
<zleap> i gave em a copy of big buck bunny
<zleap> thing is kids + cd's don'tr really mix,  cds get scratched easy
<zleap> where as tapes are far more robust
<PalaPad> The only computer worth having back then was the BBC cos you could get Elite and Virus which were arguably 2 of the best game concepts ever
<zleap> they had those on the speccy
<zleap> or i have a demo of virus somewhere
<PalaPad> I am still addicted to Elite to this day
<ZoeR> They had both on the CPC
<ZoeR> I still play Elite too
<PalaPad> Yeah but elite was best on the BBC
<PalaPad> Until it was released for the Atari ST
<zleap> its like the pc versionof  jet set willy, you can set it in to be like the spectrum, c64 and a few other versions
<zleap> so it plays soujnd accordingly
<PalaPad> I still remember playing Horace goes skiing and Ghostbusters on the old speccy
<zleap> yay i liked that too
<PalaPad> Oh and frogger
<zleap> ambulance fee $10
<zleap> you then run out of mone y and it says sorry no money no ski
<zleap> ambulance fee is annoying when you get run over by an ambulance
<zleap> what about horace and the spiders
<PalaPad> Never played that
<zleap> and hungary horrace (3rd game) the first two came with the speccy
<PalaPad> I never had a computer we were poor
<PalaPad> My friend had the specie
<PalaPad> Speccy
<PalaPad> I never owned a computer until my Atari ST in 1990
<zleap> ouch
<zleap> i had a speccy in 1986
<zleap> before that didn't really have any computer
<PalaPad> I was using computers from the early 80s but didn't own my own
<zleap> i even did gcse course work on a speccy if I had to type it
<hamitron> had?
<zleap> back then if you typed course wrk you had to hand in written scripts too, (so they knew it was your work)
<zleap> so written draft and you could type it up if you wanted
<PalaPad> My gcse course work was done on our schools Amstrad CPW machine
<zleap> i remember looking at the dooms day disk back when i was in year 9 it was a large lp size cdrom type disk
<PalaPad> And printed with a daisy wheel printer
<PalaPad> Damn those things were noisy
<hamitron> right, need coffee, brb
<zleap> dot matrus here,
<PalaPad> Zleap, probably
<PalaPad> Y laserdisc
<zleap> i hacked tasword two so it would save to +d disk
<zleap> yeah laser disk
<zleap> that was attached to a bbc archemedies or perhaps a later one than that
<PalaPad> That's a bit late for the laserdisc
<zleap> actually i have my cousins user guide to that here,  (acorn computer)
<PalaPad> Archimedes was late 80s
<zleap> well the later one then
<zleap> oddly they allowewd  1 year 9 and 2 year 7 lose on it unsupervised
<zleap> never do that these days would they
<PalaPad> These days kids smart phones are more powerful than the stuff we were using back then
<zleap> yeah
<zleap> but back ten we could write software
<PalaPad> My a significant magnitude
<zleap> and had the tools to do cool stuff like that
<PalaPad> By
<zleap> bye
<PalaPad> No by as in by
<PalaPad> Correcting my typo lol
<zleap> oh sorry
<PalaPad> I typed my instead of by
<PalaPad> Still getting used tot the iPad touchscreen
<zleap> i get ya
<ZoeR> well i suppose i should head off
<ZoeR> goodnight, all
<zleap> nite, i am of soon too
<PalaPad> Nite
<zleap> nite
<PalaPad> I have work to do still, gonna be a late night
<hamitron> :/
<PalaPad> Have to do a debate at Oxford in 4 days and need to prep for it
<zleap> ah
<zleap> sounds good
<directhex> no you don't!
<hamitron> don't need to prep?
<hamitron> ;)
<PalaPad> A debate with John Aristotle Phillips on data mining
<PalaPad> It is gonna be a ball ache
<hamitron> :/
<directhex> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQFKtI6gn9Y
<hamitron> hmmm
<PalaPad> He owns one of the biggest gov data mining corps in the US and is a complete ass
<hamitron> I have to decide what comp I want as the 3rd one on my desk :/
<PalaPad> Then I have to give a 1 hour keynote at Brunel 2 days later
<hamitron> K6-2 500mhz or 3.4ghz pentiumd
<PalaPad> Not a fun week
<hamitron> tempted to go with the k6-2
<hamitron> :)
<HazRPG> hmm, I don't think I like the SID 8580 :(
<PalaPad> Brb
<HazRPG> doesn't sound as nice as the SID 6581
<hamitron> HazRPG: you can learn on what you got, so you know more for when you buy another :)
<HazRPG> ... why did the original c64 have to be the broked one :(
<HazRPG> hamitron: this is true, however I could risk it and try and mod the c64c to accept the c64 SID chip... assuming the chip isn't dead
<HazRPG> I mean, its only a voltage change that's needed
<hamitron> I'd just keep the broken one for spares
<hamitron> and buy another
<HazRPG> one needs 12v the other needs 5v... so shouldn't be too hard to change
<HazRPG> hamitron: I could attempt to try and fix the other one
<hamitron> that also
<hamitron> but is it worth it?
<HazRPG> I mean it lights up... so its getting power
<HazRPG> the only thing is its not giving power to the tape drive... nor giving any video
<HazRPG> so it could just be a blown capacitor somewhere
<hamitron> or connectors pin come lose
<HazRPG> I'd say it was worth it for getting an original c64 back to life :P
<HazRPG> hamitron: good point!
<hamitron> I've seen that more than blown capacitors
<hamitron> ;)
<hamitron> a lot of people are not careful with their stuff
<HazRPG> hamitron: ... I just realised something (and I did stop it earlier when I took photos, I just completely forgot about it)
<HazRPG> there's something missing I think!
<HazRPG> hamitron: https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/I8ASWYaaPADHB0iH0Bitug?feat=directlink
<HazRPG> that looks like a fuse socket
<HazRPG> it is... isn't it!
<HazRPG> its got a missing fuse!
<HazRPG> why would it have a fuse taken out of it S:
<hamitron> maybe someone took it out to try get a replacement?
<hamitron> if it had blown
<HazRPG> that would be amusing
<HazRPG> considering he claims its been in his attic for 12 years
<hamitron> also worth checking it indeed has a fuse there for normal use
<HazRPG> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:C64Cmotherboard.jpg ;)
<HazRPG> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:C64motherboard.jpg <==
<HazRPG> both have fuses in them
<hamitron> any idea what rating it is?
<HazRPG> googling for it now
<HazRPG> I have a feeling these fuses are going to be a nightmare to find
<hamitron> na
<hamitron> there will be some similar part somewhere
<hamitron> the main problem could be finding the specs
<hamitron> also, remember the fuse could of blown for a reason ;)
<hamitron> it could also have just fallen out?
<directhex> bloop
<hamitron> bloop?
<HazRPG> hmm, according to the guy he said they both went in the attic as working
<HazRPG> I have a feeling someone might have gone it to nick the fuse out of it to replace something else
<HazRPG> what's the worst that could happen if I put in a new new fuse... the new fuse goes pop?
<hamitron> 79p for a fuse would be nice :)
<hamitron> if there is a fault, that is what the fuse is for
<hamitron> ;)
<HazRPG> exactly :)
<hamitron> is it same size as one from a plug?
<hamitron> or smaller?
<HazRPG> bigger >_<
<hamitron> oh
<HazRPG> about 2-3 inches
<hamitron> inches?
<hamitron> :-o
<HazRPG> about 1cm wide
<HazRPG> like I said, this is going to be impossible to find a replacement for
<hamitron> not this one then? http://www.rewind-bits.co.uk/250v-1-5a-fuse-commodore-64.html
<Jerkman> hey all
<hamitron> hi jerk
<HazRPG> I'll let you know when my browser has caught up
<HazRPG> (140 tabs now >_<)
<hamitron> HazRPG: fool :)
<HazRPG> all of which are "to be read later" tabs
<hamitron> I am teaching myself to not do that
<hamitron> yeh
<Jerkman> anyone know of  Good console based multiplayer game? some king of text rpg..
<PalaPad> You sound like me HazRPG lol
<HazRPG> PalaPad: hehe
<PalaPad> I always seem to have 80+ tabs open
<HazRPG> same
<PalaPad> I have to dona lot of reading for my work
<PalaPad> Do a
<HazRPG> today and yesterday I got overly excited over my c64 coming in
<HazRPG> so I've got loads of tabs open with different mods and stuff I'd like to try out
<PalaPad> Try and find Tarzan goes ape
<PalaPad> Or big nose in the USA
<HazRPG> hamitron: browser caught up... seems like that could be the job
<Jerkman> i can writw c64 asm ;)
<hamitron> HazRPG: it is physically smaller than you said
<HazRPG> hamitron: yeah I just measured it, and its more like 1.5 inches
<HazRPG> I was going based off my finger
<PalaPad> Loo can't miss that
<hamitron> damn man
<hamitron> you seriously overestimated
<hamitron> ;)
<HazRPG> it was 2 segments, which I always thought was inches
<PalaPad> Anaconda 3 on syfy on Sunday lol
<HazRPG> Jerkman: nice :)
 * hamitron reminds himself not to ask HazRPG to measure something
<HazRPG> hamitron: I was only .5-1 inch off lol
<PalaPad> I need to send my missus to the HazRPG school of measuring lol
<hamitron> HazRPG: another way to put it is guessing double the actual value
<hamitron> ;)
<HazRPG> hamitron: lol
<HazRPG> PalaPad: lol, what?
<hamitron> you someone who claims to have a 16 inch long third leg?
<hamitron> ;D
<PalaPad> Hahaha
<PalaPad> I couldn't possibly comment on such matters
<HazRPG> hamitron: nah, my mates do that when they try to play *wing man* for me
<HazRPG> works though, shockingly - mainly because it you over exaggerate (or under exaggerate), they get curious
 * PalaPad $issed of a director general in the eu commission yesterday 
<HazRPG> women are funny that way xD
<HazRPG> PalaPad: who?
 * hamitron congrats PalaPad
<hamitron> :)
<PalaPad> A guy Robert Madelin
<PalaPad> https://www.privacyinternational.org/blog/ecinfso-captured-industry
<HazRPG> one of my friends is a nutter though, he's actually said he had ED to someone... and she chased him for months trying to see if she could fix him xD
<HazRPG> telling him he could "practice" on her
<HazRPG> but we'll leave that there xD
<hamitron> ED?
<HazRPG> hamitron: I might chase the ebay guy up and see if he can remember why a fuse might have been taken out
<hamitron> HazRPG: I would just buy a fuse
<HazRPG> hamitron: two guesses, your first is mickey mouse
<hamitron> or try a 1A fuse from a plug
<hamitron> or you could just put a nail across it for testing
<hamitron> ;)
<HazRPG> that would be insane!
<HazRPG> actually I've used tin foil before xD
<hamitron> I never have
<hamitron> I'd use a 1A fuse
<hamitron> ;)
<HazRPG> wrap around fuse... away you go - jobs a good en'
<HazRPG> only ever done that with silly battery powered toys
<HazRPG> the fuse would only blow because it was the most used thing
<hamitron> does the C64 have mains going into it?
<hamitron> or a transformer
<HazRPG> hamitron: it has a transformer *urrraaarrrrreeeeehhhh*
<PalaPad> Huge block of a transformer iirc
<hamitron> only real risk is blowing up tranformer then
<PalaPad> In that lovely c64 case colour
<hamitron> or some part of the c64
<HazRPG> PalaPad: yeah, massive power brick
<hamitron> just steal a 1A fuse from a lamp or something
<hamitron> ;)
<HazRPG> hamitron: might be too small... but I'll have a look round
<shauno> that was about normal.  my amiga's power brick is quite a bit bigger than most PC psu's
<hamitron> small is fine
<hamitron> it would just blow and leave you none the wiser
<HazRPG> (some of the lamps I've got a A3)
<hamitron> 3A is no good
<hamitron> :/
<HazRPG> well I know that ;)
<shauno> always start small with fuses.  the smallest you can get away with is the perfect fuse
<HazRPG> I'm not thick, just point out the obvious
<hamitron> HazRPG: I like to make it clear
<hamitron> or attempt to
<hamitron> :)
<HazRPG> shauno: ah, welcome :)
<HazRPG> shauno: seurs?
<HazRPG> shauno: seen my pictures*?
<shauno> ?
<shauno> wow, that was quite the typo
<HazRPG> shauno: pc's lagging out because I have 150 tabs open now
<shauno> ah
<hamitron> grrr
<hamitron> http://www.maplin.co.uk/solar-powered-12v-1.5w-battery-trickle-charger-98358?ordercode=L58BF&C=Email-Newsletter&U=Camping%20and%20Caravanning-L58BF&T=468531&utm_source=Newsletter&utm_medium=Email&utm_content=L58BF&utm_campaign=Camping%20and%20Caravanning
<hamitron> tempted
<hamitron> :/
<shauno> eh, I wouldn't
<hamitron> why? ;/
<shauno> atlantic coast of ireland; charging the batteries would be a yearly event :)
<hamitron> :))
<hamitron> I wouldn't use it for its proper use
<hamitron> I got a trickle charger that runs off mains
<hamitron> this would be more something to mess with
<HazRPG> hmm apparently it was vlc that was the culprit - not my tabs
<HazRPG> it was taking up 5GB of memory, and 3GB of swap >_<
<shauno> burn it!
<HazRPG> I did!
<hamitron> :)
<HazRPG> I killed it!
<HazRPG> I killed it with fire!
<HazRPG> I really like htop
<hamitron> violence is not tolerated in this channel ;/
<HazRPG> seems to work better than system monitor
<hamitron> tomorrow I will have 8gb ram and not care
<HazRPG> hamitron: but OCD is :P
<hamitron> :)
<HazRPG> hamitron: hey, I've got 6GB :(
<hamitron> lga 1366?
<HazRPG> hamitron: also, you will when programs start abusing it!
<HazRPG> LGA1366
<HazRPG> yes
<HazRPG> i7-930
<hamitron> mine will only be a i3-550 3.2ghz
<HazRPG> 8 sweet virtual cores (or 4 actual)
<hamitron> but that is an upgrade for me
<hamitron> :)
<HazRPG> 8GB! Most definitely!
<hamitron> the cpu will be too
<HazRPG> that and the i3's and i7's pretty much work at the same speed anyways
<hamitron> on a 2.2ghz core2 duo
<hamitron> 800mhz fsb!
<HazRPG> yeah core 2 duo's are still all the range!
<hamitron> :(
<hamitron> I was torn between the i7 and i3
 * HazRPG still likes his core 2 duo 3.2GHz
<HazRPG> hamitron: can always move up to i7 later ;)
<hamitron> ended up going i3 to get the on chip graphics
<hamitron> na
<hamitron> ITX baby!
<hamitron> well, mini-ITX
<hamitron> I think my graphics card is the same size
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> but only using it for gaming for a while
<hamitron> waiting till there is a cpu I want for a monster comp
<hamitron> less heat and some performance
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> I really don't want anything more than 95W TDP
<hamitron> less hopefully
<hamitron> iirc, i3 first gen is 72/73W?
<hamitron> anyways
<hamitron> off to bed
<hamitron> o/
<HazRPG> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5lnX8D7hqSc \o/
<HazRPG> hamitron: awww :(
<HazRPG> yeah i3 should be like 72W
<hamitron> is that the same game as on the NES?
<HazRPG> err... possibly?
<hamitron> just looked, no
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> was a platform side scrolling thing
<HazRPG> same difference :P
<HazRPG> I wonder if there's a way to get games recorded to tape somehow... from my normal PC
<HazRPG> dude!
<hamitron> vhs style?
<HazRPG> I knew there was a reason I hated tape drives :/
<hamitron> btw, it is the same game
<hamitron> :D
<hamitron> google returned some screens from a pc game
<HazRPG> bloody thing just ate my game >_<
<hamitron> :/
<HazRPG> and pens aren't made the way they use to be so that I can wind it back up again >_<
<HazRPG> silly smooth edged pens!
<HazRPG> where's a biro or a bic when ya need one :/
 * hamitron has 8 on his desk
<hamitron> ;)
<hamitron> I keep borrowing them from my family
<hamitron> and they all collect at my desk
<HazRPG> hehe
<hamitron> desk is on 2nd floor, so never bother running upstairs for a pen
<HazRPG> looks like I'm doing it old school, tip of the finger style then >_<
<hamitron> anyways
<hamitron> nn o/
<HazRPG> need to get me some smokes
<HazRPG> brb
<HazRPG> shauno: wow, ocean made some big games didn't they...
<HazRPG> game still hasn't loaded and I set it off before I left
 * HazRPG having fun with his c64 :D
<HazRPG> what's everyone up to this evening/morning?
<shauno> we're sleeping man.  it's 5am.
<HazRPG> clearly your not sleeping though :P
<shauno> yes I am!
<HazRPG> xD
 * HazRPG pokes a "sleeping" shauno to wake him up
<shauno> trying to find out why my mail client claims my server is missing :(
<HazRPG> DNS problems maybe?
<HazRPG> I've been suffering from that recently
<shauno> I think I need to reboot my router
<HazRPG> try and ping via a ping website
<shauno> (as stupidly unconnected as that sounds)
<HazRPG> see if that sheds some light
<HazRPG> hmm, restarting router tends to fix DNS issues for me
<HazRPG> since there is no way of clearing cache
<HazRPG> or other alternative way rather*
<shauno> hm.  I don't think it's my end
<HazRPG> how'd ya figure?
<shauno> ssh -6 mail times out, ssh -4 doesn't
<HazRPG> don't know what -6 is, but yes
<HazRPG> *nods and agrees*
<shauno> tells ssh to prefer ipv4 or 6
<HazRPG> ah
<HazRPG> guessing you use ipv6 then?
<HazRPG> might be your broker that's causing the issue?
<HazRPG> or your server isn't getting an ipv6?
<shauno> looks like my tunnel's dead, but for some reason my email client isn't reverting to 4 when 6 isn't reachable
<HazRPG> guessing it should be then... random
<HazRPG> must be a config issue
<shauno> heh, could you do me a favor?  on http://www.tunnelbroker.net/status.php  are either london or paris marked red?
<shauno> it won't load for me.  it'll load from my vps, but green/red doesn't mean jack squat in elinks
<shauno> nm, my phone can reach it :)  and it is them.  which is sweet.  means I can ignore it & it'll go away
<Azelphur> hmm minecrafty people, I went to the nether, It's scary and I can't figure out how to get out
<Azelphur> save me D:
<HazRPG> shauno: paris is
<HazRPG> shauno: red I mean
<HazRPG> Azelphur: haven't tried nether yet!
<Azelphur> haha
 * HazRPG hugs Azelphur regardless
<Azelphur> it has like scary reversed baby sounds D:
<HazRPG> shauno: is it bad that I've download reSID and I'm attempting to code something with it?
<shauno> Azelphur: you should be able to use the same portal you went in thru
<shauno> if you can't find it .. maybe today is a good day to die ;)
<Azelphur> yea, I came through and I havn't moved...there is no portal D:
<Azelphur> it was a tarp D:
<shauno> hah.  yeah.  it's not meant to do that :)
<Azelphur> haha yea, it's a bug in the SMP plugin
<HazRPG> hmm... I can see why I never went both feet first into programming for linux
<HazRPG> I see's the source... but I don't know what to do with said source!
<HazRPG> or even which one's I need to include... to get it to work
<HazRPG> or should I just compile, then link said compiled file...
 * HazRPG googles how to use reSID
<shauno> Azelphur: if you're desperate, could take a hex editor to your save file ;)
<shauno> actually, no, nm that.  by hand I can flip dimension, but can't promise you'll be located anywhere sane.   just go die :p
<Azelphur> haha
<Azelphur> I'm more interested in why on earth the plugin has no way of you actually getting out again
<Azelphur> http://forums.bukkit.org/threads/tp-fun-nethergate-v0-53-just-like-single-player-478-527.3430/page-24#post-121252
<shauno> ahh
<shauno> pretty sure bukkit has a console command to change world, but no idea what it is :)
<shauno> haven't played with bukkit yet.  having enough fun learning how to pull the region files apart in regular mc :)
<shauno> trying to get to the stage where I can import & export objects from the map files, without needing some java monstrosity  (or a UI at all ...)
<shauno> export's nearly working, but I can't seem to output the same format everyone else uses.  import's pretty pointless to even try until I can get that nailed down
<Azelphur> hehe :P
<shauno> the .schematic files everyone else uses are a slight modification of a very old world save format (not 1.2's or 1.3's).
<shauno> so after all that work figuring out how to manipulate the world saves, I can't reuse that for output :(
<HazRPG> :(
<shauno> (I can turn the sky into lava tho.  could be useful one day)
<Azelphur> haha
 * Azelphur wanders off to sleep
<HazRPG> I seriously need to close some tabs
<HazRPG> I have 202 now >_<
<HazRPG> according to my tab count extension
<shauno> that's wrong in so many ways
<shauno> I think if you habitually use more tabs than fit on a screen's width, the solution isn't an addon to manage them.  it's rehab.  cold turkey.  no tabs at all until your head is fixed :D
<HazRPG> heh, I have 3 windows open - otherwise I would be suffering from tab-overflow xD
<shauno> nothing but cold hard IE6 until you repent :D
<HazRPG> would be hard considering I run ubuntu ;)
<shauno> not that hard :)
<HazRPG> it would be sacrilege!
<shauno> I believe ie4linux is still going, somewhat
 * MartijnVdS has 3 tabs open
<HazRPG> also, I have roughly 400+ tabs if you include the ones stored in my session manager addon >_<
<MartijnVdS> Mail, reddit, {twitter|facebook} :)
<shauno> I don't have a browser open atm :)
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: I'd like to tell you about this cool feature browsers have called "bookmarks"
<MartijnVdS> ;)
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: ... don't get me started, my bookmarks are already flooded too
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compulsive_hoarding
<shauno> my solution is google.
<shauno> if I found it, I can find it again.  next time I need it, I'll google it and pull it back up
<MartijnVdS> shauno: indeed. google or it wasn't important enough :)
<HazRPG> I have them all nested within these main folders: Articles, Freelance, Games, Music, Projects, Shops, Software, Videos, Websites, University, Home, Hosts, RSS
<shauno> I only have 4Gb of ram.  the internet won't fit in it.  so I'll leave it where I found it :)
<HazRPG> some sites are hard to find under google
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: sure, bookmark those few
<HazRPG> those are the ones bookmarked...
<MartijnVdS> I use my bookmark bar for often-used sites.. for the rest there's google or "add bookmark" maybe once a month
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: browse the web less ;) go program somethine
<MartijnVdS> g*
<HazRPG> this is the reason I have all these tabs/bookmarks!
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: What happens when you close them?
<MartijnVdS> (the tabs, let's start easy :))
<HazRPG> sometimes I see something and think "I'll read that later" and then get on with something... then eventually get back to them
<MartijnVdS> Sounds like ADD :)
<HazRPG> oh, I know I do!
<shauno> if you've got 400 tabs, you're not getting back to them.  your workflow has a leak.
<HazRPG> not proven via doctors etc... but tis fact :P
<MartijnVdS> a memory leak
<HazRPG> shauno: ironically I always do, and will eventually end up with back to my basic 4
<MartijnVdS> dear compiz, please let me focus my windows THANK YOU
 * MartijnVdS shouts at natty
<HazRPG> :P
<HazRPG> speaking of which, I have about 10 tabs I can now close
<MartijnVdS> good way to keep your tab count low
<MartijnVdS> reboot
<shauno> heh, don't get me started on natty
<shauno> windows 7 does a better job of degrading to a non-3d accel VM.
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: pointless, opening browser will just re-open tabs due to my
<MartijnVdS> oh wow
<HazRPG> setting I put in
<MartijnVdS> window snapping works again
<MartijnVdS> Except it snaps the drop shadow instead of the window
<MartijnVdS> *facepalm*
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: xD
<shauno> I think the border is larger than is visible?  something to do with crazy resize handles?
<MartijnVdS> (it won't stack two windows together, only with some room between them)
<shauno> if I understand it right, there's actually something in that 'room'.  just not visible
<MartijnVdS> annoying :)
<shauno> (to explain the behaviour, not excuse it)
<MartijnVdS> especially as I'm using "gnome-classic"
<MartijnVdS> (can't stand the dock on the left.. it has to be on the right or nowhere)
<MartijnVdS> ah
<MartijnVdS> the focus bug I was seeing
<MartijnVdS> = bug 723014
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 723014 in compiz (Ubuntu Natty) "New window tracking system breaks in the case where windows try to restack relative to destroyed windows that were never mapped" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/723014
<shauno> it's been a fun few years, but I think I'm going back to debian next time I have to rebuild
<MartijnVdS> I've been considering it
<MartijnVdS> if just for the sane Gnome
<shauno> on my laptop, VMs don't have 3d accel, so they've destroyed the desktop
<shauno> on my servers, they've decided that -server kernels for 32bit aren't worth the effort
<shauno> so we get -generic
<shauno> right now, it feels like ubuntu-desktop doesn't give an $expletive about you if you're not on a netbook
<shauno> and ubuntu-server doesn't care if you're not on amazon
<shauno> they're designing for the users they want, not the users they've got :(
<shauno> </rant>
<MartijnVdS> ooh! Body Browser now works on Intel graphics (in chromium) as well
<MartijnVdS> some things DO improve :)
<MartijnVdS> http://bodybrowser.googlelabs.com/
<Myrtti> bweep.
<knightwise> morning everyone
<HazRPG> temes? http://www.ted.com/talks/lang/eng/susan_blackmore_on_memes_and_temes.html
<AlanBell> morning all
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: nice idea :)
<knightwise> YES ! :) i have Gpodder under my power :)
<knightwise> gpo command line interface does the things i need it to do
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: Isn't it just, I really like the TED site :)
<HazRPG> science... it works...!
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: yes, but I need to work
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: :|
<HazRPG> :P
<HazRPG> morning AlanBell & knightwise
<knightwise> ah yes , i need to subscribe to some ted talks too
<knightwise> hey HazRPG , AlanBell
<knightwise> crud
<knightwise> japanese tsunamy http://english.aljazeera.net/watch_now/
<MartijnVdS> dvb://"Al Jazeera English"
<MartijnVdS> ;)
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Japan Tsunami: What To Do If It Affects You - http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/03/11/japan-tsunami-what-to-do-if-it-affects-you/
<TheOpenSourcerer> ping czajkowski
<DJones> Morning all
<knightwise> morning everyone TheOpenSourcerer , DJones
<DJones> Hi knightwise
<knightwise> how are you guyz today
<knightwise> aside from "happy we are not in Japan"
<DJones> Not bad thanks, just reading up on pwn2own competition
<knightwise> working on an docu-cast episode where i document the podcatching setup i have made
<knightwise> script i've been working on and all that
<hoover> mornin all!
<screen-x> morning :)
<danfish> morning
<knightwise> morning danfish
<danfish> hmm. Monit is telling me when this python script is running, and it's telling me when it's crashed, but doesn't want to restart it :(
<danfish> knightwise: 0/
<selinuxium> Hi all   o/
<danfish> d'oh - it doesn't want to restart the script because I forgot to tell it to.
<czajkowski> TheOpenSourcerer: pong
<selinuxium> 'lo czajkowski
<knightwise> @knightwise Thanks! My family is okay. I have to survive to listen your podcast! :)
<knightwise> ( My nr 1 listener in Japan tweets he's ok)
<czajkowski> selinuxium: hey hey
<selinuxium> czajkowski, you good hun?
<danfish> knightwise: good - looks a bit grim there
<czajkowski> aye sleepy but good
<czajkowski> had beers last night
<czajkowski> :d
<DJones> czajkowski: Was it a beer night yesterday evening
<selinuxium> czajkowski, You? Beer? Really? ;)
<DJones> too slow
 * selinuxium had a few cheeky one's himself..
<czajkowski> DJones: yup
<czajkowski> definately
<czajkowski> found a pub that sold Kriek and Fruli
<czajkowski> :D
<selinuxium> I used to have a 2 pint oversized stein and my local... they would fill it with Hoegarden on my arrival until large blank spaces appeared in my memory....
<danfish> czajkowski: that's the recipe for a fruity hangover ;)
<knightwise> czajkowski: so its paddy's day .. right ?
 * knightwise lives about a stonesthrow away from Hoegaarden
<selinuxium> knightwise, Really! :)
<knightwise> yep
 * selinuxium will have to work out freight costs...
<knightwise> you could consider marying a belgian girl
<selinuxium> Anybody here like their Metal music?
<knightwise> makes import export easier
<selinuxium> knightwise, Hmmm... Certainly an idea!
<czajkowski> knightwise: yes PADDYS not PATTYS or so help me I may kill people
<selinuxium> knightwise, Paddy's is on the 17th...  czajkowski was just warming up..
 * knightwise would LOVE to get smakked by czajkowski some day :p
<knightwise> this would mean i would be close enough to buy her a hoegaarden or something
<knightwise> maybe @ fossdem some day
<czajkowski> knightwise: take a ticket and join the queue behind MooDoo
<knightwise> lol :)
<knightwise> is that the "buy beer" or "get smacked" line ?
<knightwise> o/ wintellect
<wintellect> hi knightwise
<daubers> Morning
<wintellect> hi daubers
<czajkowski> popey: you're missing from over there!
<mungojerry> morning all - any (al)pine users in here?
<knightwise> mungojerry: yep
<HazRPG> hi all :)
<mungojerry> knightwise: cool, i have a quiestion...
<HazRPG> just been enjoying watching a DIY photo etching PCB video
<mungojerry> i don't use pine but some of my users like it. on the zimbra mail server we have a Junk folder, but i can't seem to view it in alpine
<mungojerry> if i try to add it, it already exists..
 * knightwise is a novice user of alpine , only hooked it up to his gmail account
<mungojerry> can you see the spam folder?
<knightwise> so i'm afraind i dont know a lot about the interaction with Gmail
<knightwise> holdon , i'll check
<selinuxium> alpine??? I really need to hang out more... Feels like I am losing my foo...
 * czajkowski hugs selinuxium 
<knightwise> selinuxium: i love alpine !
 * knightwise whips out his macbook air running 10.10.
<gord> everyone says working from home must be so great, but these people do not realise that people working from home have to deal with pets that think your are home all day every weekday to play with them
<mungojerry> lol
<mungojerry> my dog is a lapdog
<mungojerry> when i work from home, she just curls up on the lap...only makes it difficult to move around
<knightwise> mungojerry: nope , cant see the spam folder on this setup
<mungojerry> knightwise: think i've found out how to do it...
<mungojerry> http://www.cs.duke.edu/csl/security/secure-email/pine
<knightwise> mungojerry: you missed your latest viagra order then ?
<mungojerry> :P
<mungojerry> it's for my users
<knightwise> thats what they all say :p
<popey> morning all
<daubers> o/
<knightwise> mornign popey  !
<knightwise> head full of froggs my boy ?
<daubers> popey: I've got initial permission to steal a mobile raid for oggcamp (assuming we have a demo unit around at the time)
<knightwise> Ss
<knightwise> wrong window
<daubers> Just need to throw some python together to do the video upload magic \o/
 * mungojerry has a life question of the day :P 
<MartijnVdS> mungojerry: 42
<mungojerry> for UK residents :|
<mungojerry> what do the new pension changes mean to SERPS ?
<mungojerry> told you it was boring :(
<MartijnVdS> How is "42" not the answer? :)
<mungojerry> MartijnVdS: that's my best answer so far too.
<mungojerry> the govt has said everyone will receive a flat rate pension, but years ago we were all told to contract-out of SERPS :S
<JamesTait> Happy Friday, everyone! :D
<DJones> mungojerry: I wouldn't worry, according to the Mayan's the word is going to end next year anyway, and if that doesn't happen, by the time we all get to retire the economy will have collapsed and money won't exist, everybody will live on a barter basis and grow their own food
<DJones> s/word/world
<screen-x> DJones: solid financial advice there
<MartijnVdS> DJones:optimist :)
<mungojerry> that reminds me of a good open source slogan i saw yesterday: https://twitter.com/RickWarren/status/45797195869458432 "Most people ask âWhat does it cost?â  Wise people ask âWhat is it worth?"
<DJones> I always look on the bright side :)
<mungojerry> DJones: are you contracted in or out of serps though :P
<DJones> mungojerry: I can't rememeber
<directhex> mungojerry, kids these days ask "is it on the pirate bay?"
<popey> daubers: yay
 * mungojerry has never been to pirate bay
<directhex> there are pirates. arrr
<knightwise> mungojerry: try this setup , now you can see all the folders http://lusule.wordpress.com/2008/08/16/how-to-7/
<Baikonur> open source is often worth the cost
<mungojerry> and a bit more Baikonur :P
<DJones> HP Sauce is definately worth the cost
<mungojerry> knightwise: sweet, cheers
<mungojerry> my local cafe pours cheap brown sauce into HP bottles =-O
<directhex> i don't like brown sauce
<screen-x> mungojerry: I'm pretty sure thats standard :(
<directhex> i will literally sit with an open bottle & sniff, for delightful sauces like reggae reggae ketchup, or heinz twisted ketchup
<mungojerry> directhex: are you single?
<directhex> mungojerry, no!
<screen-x> haha
<mungojerry> you surprise me :)
 * selinuxium accepts czajkowski 's hugs and goes looking for where he left his foo...
<directhex> mungojerry, if a bottle of ketchup gets left on my desk, i'll compulsively sniff it until it goes back into the cupboard
 * mungojerry backs away from directhex
<DJones> mungojerry: don't back away, run....RUN FASTER
<mungojerry> as long as i'm faster than one of you guys i'm ok
<screen-x> directhex: at least you dont drink it from the bottle.
 * mungojerry looks closely at the lurkers
<DJones> mungojerry: Thats only when its lions chasing you & your mate
<mungojerry> i wonder what the speech /lurk rate is
<screen-x> mungojerry: I saw one of the super people speak the other day!
<mungojerry> ?
<DJones> ping AlanBell popey http://ubuntu-uk.org/ircstats/ is giving a Not Found error
<popey> ooo
 * popey fix0r3s
<screen-x> hmm, only super-matt, is there at the mo, there was superastronaut and supercosmonaut..
<mungojerry> wonders if popey was answering irc pings in the pub
<popey> DJones: fixed
 * mungojerry LOLs at the teenager slang: bare sick
<popey> i wasnt
<popey> i am however somewhat hungover
 * czajkowski wafts bacon in popey direction to help with the hangover 
<mungojerry> "Device: /dev/sda, 1 Offline uncorrectable sectors" ..nothing to worry about surely?
<MartijnVdS> mungojerry: buy a new one just in case
<MartijnVdS> or make a backup just in case
<popey> czajkowski: already had brekkie
<popey> bacon and egg roll and a hash brown
<popey> with lucozade and nurofen
<czajkowski> oh tis one of them heads
<bigcalm> Morning peeps :)
 * czajkowski makes a mental note not to poke popey today 
<czajkowski> popey: any ocassion, or just needed beers
<kazade> popey, hangover cure #1 for me is something containing Chilli :)
<MartijnVdS> kazade: preferably just after drinking, before the hangover hits? :)
<kazade> the spice stimulates your stomach to replace the lining you destroyed with alcohol, and stimulates the nervous system. FACT.
<kazade> MartijnVdS, indeed, there's a reason we crave spicy food when drunk ;)
<MartijnVdS> kazade: The spice etends life. The spice expands consciousness. The spice is vital to space travel ;)
<mungojerry> that makes mungojerry sad
<kazade> also, of course, Banana for Potassium and Caffeine
<kazade> oh yeah, and Pineapple, replaces lost sugars
<mungojerry> or lucozade+paracetomol and sleep
<kazade> that's one weird breakfast though :)
<mungojerry> pineapple + kiwi tend to dissolve my tongue
<daubers> Hmmm... didn't realise btrfs lets you do software raiding as well
<MartijnVdS> Music with Dune quotes++ -- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zOjjnIPwd7c
<kazade> I tend to settle on Coffee + Egg sandwich with chilli sauce :)
<kazade> and Ibuprofen.. obviously
<MartijnVdS> kazade: Codeine ;)
<kazade> no Aspirin though... if you've already burned away your stomach lining with Alcohol, Aspirin will just make it worse
<screen-x> linkedin thinks I might know czajkowski even though I've only just joined, spooky.
<kazade> Ibuprofen isn't great in that respect
<DJones> kazade: MartijnVdS Codiene + paracetamol + diclafenic :)
<kazade> DJones, morphine :p
<DJones> kazade: I haven't got any of that
 * kazade got a tiny bit addicted to morphine after an operation 8 years ago
<MartijnVdS> DJones: You can't get codeine without a prescription in .nl
* popey changed the topic of #ubuntu-uk to: Welcome to #ubuntu-uk! http://ubuntu-uk.org | This channel is publicly archived: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Mailing List:  http://tinyurl.com/uukml | Support Guidelines -  http://tinyurl.com/uuksupport | Meeting Thursday March 17th 21:00 GMT in #ubuntu-uk-meeting  http://tinyurl.com/uukmeet | Quiz Night poll: http://doodle.com/eucwzx2qdiiiqs5p Gord fixed Bug 721447 \o/ | Drugs
<DJones> popey: Correction, Medication, not drugs
<screen-x> popey: this would a good time to mention your referral codes for some online pharmacies
<DJones> MartijnVdS: Same here for the good ones, although you can get the mild low dose in supermarkets
<AlanBell> #ubuntu-narcotics
<popey> hah
<mungojerry> guys, what will happen to all the apps that require system tray in natty?
<kazade> mungojerry, Wine and Java apps are whitelisted
<mungojerry> is there a workaround?
<kazade> all other apps just won't work
<kazade> don't use Unity
 * mungojerry sees huge breakage ahead
<mungojerry> or maybe a systray icon in the launcher
<mungojerry> to handle all legacy apps
<kazade> yeah maybe, but Canonical won't be doing that
<kazade> someone else will have to
 * kazade can't understand why they just don't continue to support the old systray for legacy applications 
<popey> because nobody would convert
<kazade> popey, if that was true, no one would be using the indicator applet
<mungojerry> it's a necessity for transition..something will need to be done
<mungojerry> i wonder how my update-manager notifications will now work also
<kazade> Scott Richie had to pester to even get Wine apps to be whitelisted
<kazade> the original plan was no systray at all
<mungojerry> i don't use that horrid in-your-face popup window, but use the systray icon
<czajkowski> http://twitpic.com/48f8q7  BACON!
<mungojerry> "It seems that czajkowski's shift-key is hanging:  1.5% of the time he/she wrote UPPERCASE."
<kazade> mungojerry, you can say goodbye to that unless someone implements an indicator for it
<kazade> (probably already exists somewhere)
<mungojerry> kazade: isn't it more likely that users will say goodbye to unity, or ubuntu completly
<MartijnVdS> update-manager is an Ubuntu invention, so it probably works
<popey> hehe. czajkowski you have the same phone as me
<popey> cisco 7941 ip phone
<popey> mungojerry: no
<czajkowski> popey: geek to spot that :)
<mungojerry> popey: why not, if i use glipper and loads of other apps using the tray, i'll need to continue using some kind of tray
<AlanBell> MooDoo brings happiness to the world. 30.7% lines contained smiling faces. :)
<AlanBell> davmor2 isn't a sad person either, smiling 27.8% of the time.
<mungojerry> therefore gnome classic is the only route i can take?
<bigcalm> !stats
<bigcalm> Aww :(
<czajkowski> mungojerry: I'm a She :)
<kazade> mungojerry, it seems to be that Canonical are targeting 90% of users with Unity, the other 10% need to fend for themselves (e.g. use Gnome 2/3)
<kazade> if you use systray apps you are in the 10%
<AlanBell> czajkowski: http://ubuntu-uk.org/ircstats/
<mungojerry> czajkowski: you should be able to tell ircstats that
<MartijnVdS> kazade: it could become like kubuntu is now.. gubuntu -- proper Gnome instead of Unity
<mungojerry> only 10% of users use a systray app?
<bigcalm> lubotu3: stats is http://ubuntu-uk.org/ircstats/
 * mungojerry hopes that gnome classic does not disappear with the advent of gnome3 & shell
<kazade> mungojerry, I only use Wine/Java systray apps so that's fine for me (although I can't stand the global menu, so arguably I'm in the 10% too)
<bigcalm> Oh, is lubotu3 shared between ubuntu channels?
<AlanBell> there can be channel specific factoids
<DJones> bigcalm: Yes
<AlanBell> !popey is one
<mungojerry> i have a phobia of the global menu
<bigcalm> I see
<AlanBell> oops
<bigcalm> !popey
<kazade> mungojerry, I just think it's a set up that doesn't suit all use cases
<lubotu3> popey is the UK alternative to elvis.
<popey> 10:32:50 < mungojerry> popey: why not, if i use glipper and loads of other apps using the tray, i'll need to continue using some kind of tray
<popey> 10:31:33 < mungojerry> kazade: isn't it more likely that users will say goodbye to unity, or ubuntu completly
<popey> you are saying "I might leave therefore lots of people might leave"
<popey> this is historically not born out
<popey> geeks have a tendancy to overemphasise their use case as the general use case for everyone
<mungojerry> popey: historically it has been borne out with KDE3->4
<HazRPG> just for the lulz: http://notalwaysright.com/
<dogmatic69> could someone explain this to me please
<dogmatic69> bash < <( curl http://rvm.beginrescueend.com/releases/rvm-install-head )
<mungojerry> of course many apps could be written to work with libunity to make the launcher more useful...but they are cross-distro projects and may not want to
<kazade> mungojerry, that's my main worry actually
<kazade> Ubuntu now have libindicate and libunity  and has the market share to become the defacto development platform
<popey> mungojerry: i disagree
<mungojerry> popey: disagree how? you think devs will make it work for unity? i hope so
<screen-x> dogmatic69: I dont think you need the left "<"
<mungojerry> might take a year (plus roaring success of unity) to get on board though
<MartijnVdS> user-share != developer-share though
<dogmatic69> screen-x: it works just as it is, but no clue what it means :/
<screen-x> dogmatic69: you could write it as curl foo |bash
<screen-x> <() is useful for providing more than one input steam
<dogmatic69> screen-x: so its a weird way to pipe things?
<screen-x> diff <(command one) <(command two)
<ali1234> popey: it isn't about numbers, but quality of contributions
<dogmatic69> pipe n things to x then
<ali1234> popey: unity might gain ubuntu 10 users for every person that leaves
<screen-x> dogmatic69: yeah, pipe only provides one stream.
<screen-x> dogmatic69: but in your example there was only one stream, so pipe would have been fine.
<ali1234> popey: however that won't do you any good if none of the new people know how to write code
<dogmatic69> screen-x: cool, just seen 2 tutorials with that now
<dogmatic69> both for ruby
 * dogmatic69 dont like ruby
<popey> i am too hungover for this conversation, sorry :D
<mungojerry> :) fairy nuff
<MartijnVdS> popey: you had to drink away your experience with Unity from last night?
 * daubers has a midmorning snickers bar
<mungojerry> popey: don't get me wrong i want unity to work, and i'm testing & reportign bugs
<mungojerry> but there must be a continued support for legacy apps in some way, for at least 1 cycle
<screen-x> mungojerry: the tray has been supported alongside indicators for a few cycles now.
<daubers> mungojerry: I've not noticed any apps that don't behave well in Natty?
 * gord loads steam in wine to check systray still works
<gord> yup
<Ng> burn the Notification Area!
<Ng> burn it with fire!
<mungojerry> daubers: stuff that uses the systray (excepting the whitelisted wine & java)
 * screen-x loads ccsm
<gord> Ng, there is a compiz plugin for that
<Ng> hateful stupid thing
<screen-x> and gets out the fire
<Ng> gord: ooh, goof point
<Ng> -f+d
<screen-x> gord ^5
<gord> can we make "there is a plugin for that" the new "theres an app for that" meme?
<Ng> gord: I wanted 'there's an apt for that', but nobody really took to it :(
<MartijnVdS> there's a meme for that
<Ng> and I didn't get Orly Owl for the next name. I lose at having any influence in the community
<daubers> mungojerry: I've got a few things that use the systray runnign and their all happy...
<MartijnVdS> Ng: every time you suggest a name, sabdfl notices and makes sure it's not that
<MartijnVdS> Ng: hence "oneiric"
<knightwise> cant believe the named it that way btw
<knightwise> had to look up what is was
<gord> eh, i hate firefoxes "the server is not responding" page. it just annoys me. why can't it have like a cute picture of the firefox fox or something?
<mungojerry> daubers: in unity? try glipper, artha
<daubers> So we need to communally decide on a name in secret and ensure that we remoe all other names from the pool of availabl names?
<MartijnVdS> knightwise: onerous ocelot ;)
<daubers> mungojerry: Never heard of either of those :)
<Ng> gord: with a big sad face
<screen-x> whatever oneiric actually means, it sounds dodgy.
<gord> Ng, like they did to get people to do the test-pilot stuff :) http://mittakrish.com/files/Firefox-Test-Pilot-Mittakrish.com_.png
<gord> how can you say no to that?
<Ng> that is one iric ocelot
<mungojerry> daubers: what clipboard app are you using?
<Ng> gord: I'm sure there's a plugin for that :)
<mungojerry> and what about update notification?
<daubers> mungojerry: I don't use a clipboard app?
<daubers> mungojerry: update notification disappeared from the panel a couple of releases ago
<Ng> mungojerry: update notification doesn't use the... what daubers
<gord> now it just pops up randomly! its awesome
<Ng> update manager loads, minimises and sets its urgent WM hint
<daubers> glipper isn't in the repo...
<gord> i love it when it pops up on my xmbc install and forces xbmc out of fullscreen mode, thats the best
<Ng> gord: perhaps you should disable it :)
<Ng> just install unattended-upgrades
<mungojerry> update notification : i use the systray app because the other way is so...microsoft
<Ng> that's weird
<mungojerry> i thought OSS was about choosing the best way
<screen-x> I get update notifications, I dont think I'm in the right group.
<daubers> !best
<lubotu3> Usually, there is no single "best" application to perform a given task. It's up to you to choose, depending on your preferences, features you require, and other factors. Do NOT take polls in the channel. If you insist on getting people's opinions, ask BestBot in #ubuntu-bots.
<Ng> because windows puts updates in the 'systra'
<mungojerry> daubers: exactly..
<Ng> windows update and java and all sorts of things chuck icons in there when they have updates
<gord> mungojerry, open source software is certainly not about choosing the best way
<gord> its about choosing
<mungojerry> gord, daubers: best for me is not best for you..AKA choice
<screen-x> why is it not lunchtime yet
<mungojerry> sorry for confusion
<knightwise> erm , what does the unattended command do btw ?
<Ng> mungojerry: and you have the choice to run whatever software you want :)
<mungojerry> Ng: except not with unity :(
<daubers> mungojerry: So you want to remove the choice of people to run unity so you can have your specific choice? Why not just run classic gnome (as you can from the login screen)
<Ng> mungojerry: you can not run unity. The reality is that it's impossible for software to cater to everyone. simple, opinionated designs are better than vast universal ones
<Ng> compare an ipod with Eclipse
<ali1234> compare wubi with grub
<gord> eclipse is the single worst portable media player i have ever had
<mungojerry> guys, all i'm asking is that legacy apps retain some kind of support until they can be integrated with the launcher
<gord> ?
<screen-x> gord: eclipse is soooo slow on my iriver :(
<daubers> mungojerry: That support has been continued for a few releases already, it has to be dropped at some point
<HazRPG> ali1234: ah, dude your online :)
 * Ng is a neophile, I love it when legacy things are dropped, it forced new things and new things are awesome \o/
<mungojerry> daubers: other distros use it though..
<HazRPG> ali1234: quick question for ya, you mentioned something a few nights ago about making your own SID... where did you see that at?
<gord> unity is the bush wildfire, burning away the old cruft so the new plants can grow Â¬_Â¬
<mungojerry> what if the devs work on other distros
<daubers> mungojerry: And? Other distro's use midnight commander too
<ali1234> HazRPG: swansid
<ali1234> swinsid
<ali1234> whatever
<mungojerry> then ubuntu changes might not be at the forefront of their priorities
<daubers> mungojerry: Thats their choice to make though
<mungojerry> so the users get penalised :(
<mungojerry> or use gnome classic
<HazRPG> ali1234: oh, I thought that was pre-built
<Ng> desktop app people not focussing on ubuntu compatibility clearly don't care about their users ;)
<HazRPG> ali1234: I didn't see on the site any schematics on there
<daubers> mungojerry: So nothing should ever change so that all legacy apps always work?
<Ng> because ubuntu brings the most desktop users :)
<mungojerry> at least 1 cycle after 11.04
<ali1234> mungojerry: don't worry about it. unity is going to be largely ignored by all other distros, like all canonical "good ideas"
<gord> mungojerry, erm its not an either or situation, ubuntu apps are patched to support indicators, if you remove the indicator applet they fallback to tray
<mungojerry> the reality is that i will use docky within unity :S
<Ng> ali1234: there's nothing wrong with that, we've all ignored YaST and Anaconda and dozens of other things that different distros have produced :)
<daubers> mungojerry: But legacy support for systray has been kept since the indicators where introduced. So if _your_ apps you want don't get updated by 11.10, will you still be saying keep it then?
<ali1234> yeah, i don't see any upstream projects dropping support for tray
<MartijnVdS> good thing we've ignored yast too
<ali1234> anaconda also sucks
<mungojerry> daubers: although unity wasn't the default previous to 11.04
<daubers> mungojerry: Why does that change things? The app indicataors weren't introduced in Unity?
<ali1234> HazRPG: it's done in software
 * Ng looks forward to network management moving to an indicator so I can forcibly turn off the notification area and get rid of the stupid HP logo that their printer management stuff puts in there
<mungojerry> daubers: some functionality can be moved from systray to the launcher with libunity, but libunity is new. not everything fits in the memenu thing that i never think of using
<ali1234> the meme-nu sucks
<daubers> mungojerry: But that ability has mostly been part of libindicator? The libunity stuff was just for the indicators on the icons isn't it?
<MartijnVdS> Ng: but it's a BRANDING OPPORTUNITY
<ali1234> yet another thing that doesn't work properly with 2 monitors
<ali1234> not that the thing it replaces did either
<Ng> MartijnVdS: yes, that's partly why I hate it. the blue hp logo looks totally out of place on my sleek, dark panel :)
<gord> eh the me menu works fine with multiple monitors here
<mungojerry> i already mentioned some apps that don't work, and the answer is that you haven't heard of them/don't use them
<mungojerry> there's 50,000 apps out there, and a lot will break
<mungojerry> unityocalypse
<daubers> mungojerry: But they've had the opportunity to resolve that since the indicators where introduced x releases ago
<HazRPG> ali1234: well... yeah its an AVR but his site just shows changes he's done - not the actual stuff to upload to your AVR
<daubers> mungojerry: I know some people that still run win 95 machines as the apps they require haven't been updated to run on anything more recent
<Ng> mungojerry: which do you expect is more likely to cause thse apps to be improved - a) 'one more cycle of no action required', b) 'no more cycles of no action required'? :)
<daubers> You have to drop support for legacy stuff at some point
<HazRPG> I could be on the wrong site however...
 * screen-x has a win3.1 box connected to an hplc machine :)
<mungojerry> next LTS ?
<Ng> getting this sort of change in a year before an LTS is perfect
<daubers> The releases between LTS's are when stuff should be dropped changed, so it's stable for the next LTS
<gord> yeah doing it on an LTS is really a bad idea
<ali1234> mungojerry: no point in this argument, just switch to debian
<mungojerry> :(
<gord> mungojerry, the reality is that this switch couldn't be made at any "good" time, but its something that should be done
<gord> 50,000 apps aren't going to be checked and patched any time soon and leaving in legacy support stops anyone from wanting to patch
<davmor2> morning all
<mungojerry> gord: i agree to an extent, except that unity is so new, it will cause a lot of breakage, maybe people don't realise how much
<ali1234> the thing is, the authors of those 50,000 apps aren't actually going to patch them either way
<ali1234> your package maintainers are going to have to do it
<mungojerry> not all developers are on board with the changes cos they are ubuntu only
<daubers> mungojerry: So we should never change anything?
<gord> mungojerry, actually no
<ali1234> so you better make sure you don't drive them all to debian
<mungojerry> if ubuntu was the only linux distro then fine.
<gord> the indicator stack is based on a freedesktop.org spec, everyone bar gnome-shell is moving towards it
<mungojerry> you can do what apple did with mac os 9->10
 * davmor2 scruffs up czajkowski hair, then sprays it with hair spray so it stays like it
<HazRPG> ali1234: ah, found some schematics, and an etch layout :)
<mungojerry> gord: what will happen with next fedora, will they drop systray?
 * DJones replaces davmor2's tin of hair spray with a tin of blue spray paint
<mungojerry> i'm happy to lose this argument if it means that unity works for me :)
<gord> i have no idea what fedora is going to do
<Ng> second guessing what fedora is going to do for its mostly-just-developers audience seems like a weird thing to be doing
<mungojerry> i have dependency on a lot of apps on my work PC, it's definitely styying on 10.04 LTS for the time being
<Ng> there's nothing wrong with that
<popey> http://bit.ly/fQ36do wow
<daubers> mungojerry: Thats why LTS's exist
<mungojerry> Ng: fedora has not many regular users? i disagree
<mungojerry> daubers: true :)
 * czajkowski frowns at DJones 
<Ng> mungojerry: a distro that doesn't support upgrades has lots of regular users? I really find that hard to believe :)
<czajkowski> DJones: naughty step for you
<ali1234> fedora is pretty lol
<Ng> mungojerry: fedora is the bleeding edge. it's a good thing that it exists, but it's not user focussed like ubuntu is, imho
<DJones> czajkowski: Ah well, will there be room on the naughty step?
<ali1234> i don't see how anyone can use it
<gord> popey, i only got one :( - what is that using? clever js or just crazy url redirection...
<kazade> popey, 7 seconds ;)
<kazade> that's pretty cool
<mungojerry> the comp sci dept at my employer use it in their labs
<DJones> Yay 4 in 16 seconds
<Ng> comp sci = developers ;)
<mungojerry> on another story, i just got a quote back from dell after getting windows tax removed
<mungojerry> i chose the lamest win7 option (win 7 home no media). Â£459...take off win 7 and get Â£422 :)
<screen-x> gord location.hash http://probablyinteractive.com/url-hunter/url-hunter.js
<gord> ah, makes sense but less impressive now :)
<AlanBell> I was just reading that
<gord> http://fractal.io/ is more impressive for those of us running firefox 4 (prolly chrome too)
<DJones> Chrome doesn't like that website "WebGL not supported by your browser" and I'm using 11.0.696.0 dev
<czajkowski> DJones: not at the rate davmor2 is teacing people
<czajkowski> *teaching
<screen-x> DJones: wfm 9.0.597.98
<kazade> DJones, I *think* that Chrome only enable WebGL on under the proprietary Nvidia driver..
<MartijnVdS> kazade: 10.0.648.127 on natty has it enabled properly on my Intel card/driver
<MartijnVdS> bodybrowser.googlelabs.com works \o/
<kazade> hmm, ok, I'm wrong then :)
<popey> doesnt work on windows either in chrome 11
<gord> i'v heard some people say it doesn't work on their intel gpu's
<DJones> This looks like a fix http://www.m0interactive.com/archives/2009/10/26/how_to_enable_webgl_on_google_chrome.html at the bottom of the page
<MartijnVdS> DJones: only in old versions
<MartijnVdS> current versions (9 and up) have it enabled by default
<MartijnVdS> 8 has it as an option (about:flags)
<screen-x> Web browsers are awesome :)
<DJones> Looks like its that webGL page thats the problem, other ones are working
<davmor2> czajkowski: He's not learnt that from me I'd of gone for illuminous Green
<gord> honestly its using some advanced shader's to generate the 3d fractals. if you have a crappy gpu its gonna fail
<Ng> ;1
<Ng> doh
 * czajkowski peers at davmor2 
<davmor2> czajkowski: What you started it
 * mungojerry is looking at weird footage of a tsunami carrying burning debris
<kazade> mungojerry, I've been looking at this: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-12709856
<mungojerry> whoah
<mungojerry> if i learned anything from scooby doo, it's that the boat shoudn't be near the middle of that
<czajkowski> If anyone is looking for work, we're looking for a support enginner to cover one of the shifts. pm for more details
<daubers> In a similar vain to czajkowski, I'm after a python/c programmer :)
<ali1234> i've got one of those anti virus cold callers...
<directhex> http://www.oerc.ox.ac.uk/jobs/osc-systems-manager
<directhex> ali1234, "hi, i'm from microsoft, give me remote access & all your money"?
<ali1234> yes
<daubers> ali1234: Take a guess at their flowchart and convince them you know it because of the virii on their computers, then sell them Norton for a couple of hundred quids
<directhex> daubers, they're dumb. they just read a script.
<ali1234> lol confused him with "no items"
<directhex> ali1234, he's not technically literate. you'd confuse him with CP, if you moved the task bar to a different edge to normal
<directhex> XP
<czajkowski> http://siriusit.co.uk/blogs/06-jan-2011/were-hiring-our-weybridge-offices
<directhex> pfft, weybridge, when there's an opening in the dreaming spires of oxford?
<czajkowski> directhex: you dont need to come in
<czajkowski> this job you just need to have internet access
<directhex> oh bums
<directhex> you win this round!
<czajkowski> directhex: you are so charming
<directhex> i have all the charm of a room filled with cats
<czajkowski> yeah charming is not how I refer to rooms filled with cats my dear
<czajkowski> next time heads up before I sit down and blocked in and cant get out
<directhex> i have all the charm of a room filled with cats.
<czajkowski> >:(
<ali1234> haha, dude got mad when he figured out i was just winding him up
<directhex> ali1234, ask him if his family know he's a criminal
<popey> \o/ cats
<popey> ali1234: what did he ask you to do? go to a web page or something?
<ali1234> no
<ali1234> it didn't get that far
<ali1234> he asked me to look in event viewer like they always do
<popey> heh, you make it sound like an interactive fiction game :)
<popey> oh, what are you supposed to look for?
<ali1234> so i told him it was empty
<ali1234> event viewer is always full of crap so there's always something bad there
<popey> true
<ali1234> so anyway this confused him (it's *never* empty unless you manually clear it)
<ali1234> so he gets his "supervisor" AKA the guy who runs the scam
<ali1234> and he's like "oh you need to extend your warranty to see the problems"
<mungojerry> ali1234: what accent did he have?
<ali1234> indian/pakistani/somewhere around there
<ali1234> so anyway he says "oh the problems are inside your computer"
<ali1234> so i put the phone inside the computer for a bit and then said "it looks OK"
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Stuart Langridge] Adding tasks to Evolution from Python - http://www.kryogenix.org/days/2011/03/11/adding-tasks-to-evolution-from-python
<directhex> mungojerry, they all operate out of the same city in india
<mungojerry> directhex: genuine call centres or fake ones?
<popey> er
<mungojerry> or maybe they are the same place.
<popey> what is a "fake call centre"?
<mungojerry> popey: what ali1234 just received
<popey> ah
<popey> "fake call" centre
<mungojerry> maybe they stay late to pull a bit of overtime
<directhex> mungojerry, a call center filled with criminal scammers
<popey> not fake "call centre"
<directhex> like popey says
<mungojerry> well he did go get his supervisor
<mungojerry> that's better service than i usually get
<mungojerry> maybe i should try them when my talktalk line craps out
<mungojerry> :)
<mungojerry> surely there must exist "a call center filled with criminal scammers"
<ali1234> considering how much they probably make from this
<mungojerry> i wish i could stop paying for my land line
<ali1234> all they need is a few laptops and people to read the scripts
<ali1234> i doubt it comes from a real call centre company
<mungojerry> i get fleeced liek that every time i go to the car garage
<mungojerry> people who know about cars must laff at me
<directhex> ali1234, it doesn't.
<ali1234> apart from anything else, the legit companies operate 24 hours anyway, there's no such thing as "overtime"
<directhex> http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/jul/18/phone-scam-india-call-centres
<mungojerry> anyone ever used agresso finance system?
<mungojerry> one of the worst products i've ever had to use
<dogmatic69> never used IE6 then :D
<mungojerry> it's a web based product so you coudl combine the 2
<dogmatic69> nice
<mungojerry> i suspect it's just my employer's implementation of it that doesn't work
<dogmatic69> the site is broken in chrome and its full of links to sap and oracle...
<dogmatic69> that should have been a sign
<dogmatic69> and it runs on IIS
<mungojerry> googling it, it seems to be mainly used in universities
<mungojerry> hmmm
<dogmatic69> seeing a few course for it too
<mungojerry> :( my unity taskbar has gone all grey and "classic", a bit like when win XP goes funny and gives you the old school taskbar
<brobostigon> afternoonings everyone,
<HazRPG> manual for my c64 arrived today :D
<HazRPG> wow, this is well documented!
<HazRPG> no wonder demos' were so popular
 * HazRPG reading about sprites
<brobostigon> afternoonings HazRPG :)
<HazRPG> brobostigon: afternoon squire :)
<brobostigon> squire, hmm.
<brobostigon> :)
<HazRPG> irc I always call people squire :)
<HazRPG> irl*
<brobostigon> oh, ok.
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG esq.?
<HazRPG> I don't like the term "mate"
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: ?
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: what's esq.?
<MartijnVdS> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esquire
<brobostigon> HazRPG: its an ebbreviation for esquire.
<HazRPG> ah
<HazRPG> lol
<MartijnVdS> Americans like adding it to their name to try to indicate status :)
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: what does you handle mean btw?
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: Martijn = first name, "van de Streek" = my last name.. so VdS
<HazRPG> how do you pronounce the first part?
<HazRPG> because I keep trying to say "marti.. j... n... VdS"
<daubers> Bleshu
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: "ij" is one sound
<HazRPG> so my typing always results in "mart<tab>j<tab>" when I type it
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: http://www.pronouncenames.com/pronounce/martijn
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: ah, so I'm not wrong in thinking its pronounced "martin"
<HazRPG> actually...
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: almost.. if you prounce the "i" as "eye" it's almost right
<HazRPG> marTAYn
<HazRPG> mart<tab>j<tab :)
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: so.. are you "hassan role playing game" or "hassan rocket propelled grenade"? ;)
<HazRPG> role playing game :)
 * HazRPG loves RPG's
<mungojerry> HazRPG: you're not a bot are you ? :P
<HazRPG> my dad seems to think its Rocket Propelled Grenade - it amuses him
<MartijnVdS> mungojerry: considering the times he's online.. he could be
<HazRPG> mungojerry: xD
<HazRPG> mungojerry: nope
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: you mean considering the light number of hours he sleeps...
<HazRPG> little*
<HazRPG> >_<
<MartijnVdS> few ;)
<HazRPG> exact.a.mondo!
<HazRPG> <== still awake, not slept yet
<HazRPG> ooo there's a section on sound in here too!
 * HazRPG looks like he could be making a demo soon!
<HazRPG> wow, basic back then was so much easier than the basic I used about 10 years ago
<mungojerry> HazRPG: do u work?
<mungojerry> or study
<mungojerry> or neither :P
<HazRPG> mungojerry: both?
<HazRPG> studying (top up for my HND->Degree), freelance (making a hotel booking system ATM), also do LOTS of self research/studying for personal projects
<HazRPG> and yet still have time to socialise ... somehow!
<HazRPG> hmm, seems odd that in BASIC for the c64 - they didn't include the memory numbers as basic constant variables (or API - sort of - variables)
<MartijnVdS> they didn't have room for symbolic names
<MartijnVdS> just poke that address you found in the manual :)
<HazRPG> since most of these examples basically say "make a variable with the value xxxxx, and use this for adding & subtracting to get your registers
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: they'll have had more than enough for the base values of them though - one for video sprites and one for sound would have made all the difference)
<HazRPG> since we have to create those anyways
<HazRPG> just seems pointless - specially since these are fixed values anyways
<HazRPG> especially*
<HazRPG> great thing about emulators though, I can quickly type it out on the PC and test it (with several emu's open) then later convert over to the actual c64 :)
<screen-x> HazRPG: can you squirt programs over to the c64 with some sort of serial connection?
<HazRPG> screen-x: I wish
<screen-x> HazRPG: no serial interface at all?
<HazRPG> there is, but I don't have any cables
<screen-x> ah
<HazRPG> and my computer doesn't have a port to output serial (other the ps/2 if that counts)
<screen-x> usb serial interfaces are cheap though
<HazRPG> screen-x: however, I am planning on making a CF/SD/MMC (one of those) card reader for it
<HazRPG> so I can test around in several environments on my PC, save bits to file... and the store them onto SD when I want to try them out on the real machine :)
<HazRPG> that's the plan at least ;)
<screen-x> HazRPG: wow, what sort of file system can a c64 read?
<HazRPG> screen-x: good point :)
<mungojerry> wow, my fascination with old stuff wears off a lot more quickly than that
<ali1234> what is the difference between nvidia 195 series and 260 series drivers?
<mungojerry> i tend to binge on old BBC games for 2 days max
<HazRPG> screen-x: erm... don't know? fat16 seems to be what people are using for the SD cards
<screen-x> HazRPG: I cant see the c64 reading that..
<HazRPG> ali1234: mainly newer card support I think?
<ali1234> but the 195 series isn't listed on nvidia's page
<HazRPG> screen-x: ah, you've gotta programme a IC though
<ali1234> yet it was developed in parallel with the 260 series drivers
<HazRPG> ali1234: oh, sorry I thought you mean driver versions >_<
<ali1234> i do
<ali1234> see http://www.nvidia.com/object/unix.html
<ali1234> there is 260, 173, 96, and 71
<ali1234> so what is this 195 stuff?
<HazRPG> ali1234: where you getting that number from? I thought it was only 96, 173 and 260 :S
<ali1234> http://www.nvidia.com/object/linux_display_archive.html
<ali1234> on june 11 2010 they released a 195 driver in between two 256 drivers
<ali1234> so clearly it's a different series
<ali1234> but it's not listed on the front page
<ali1234> so, wtf?
<ali1234> sometimes i wonder who comes up with this stuff
<mungojerry> i don't have the brain capacity to store all that awkward stuff
<HazRPG> ali1234: from what I can see from all the supported products...
<mungojerry> then i end up running the wrong driver
<mungojerry> if i've got a FX5200 old nvidia card, which driver do i run?
<HazRPG> 265 has most of the cards from 195... the ones that were removed appears to be in 173...
<ali1234> so what happened to the 195 series?
<knightwise> Aha :) Using rsh i can make my Imacs in the house "say" things using the crontab of my Ubuntu server
<HazRPG> ali1234: I have a feeling they were forked off to 265 and 173
<knightwise> intersting (waddles of to find an evil sceme to scare his wife using this tech)
<ali1234> meaning... the driver version number descreased for some users?
<HazRPG> ali1234: hmm.. I'm boggled now
<HazRPG> ali1234: could just be that it was too unstable
<HazRPG> ali1234: ah ha!
<HazRPG> 195 was a beta driver!
<ali1234> the only reason i ask is because debian 6 (released last month) has only the 195 driver, which is over 6 months old and looks like no longer supported by nvidia at all
<brobostigon> debian stable, is after all well tested, and also older for it.
<ali1234> shipping an unsupported beta driver isn't exactly my idea of stable
<ali1234> but even unstable doesn't have the latest driver
<brobostigon> ali1234: they probebly well tested it, and thought it stable and tested enough, no to change it.
<ali1234> have to go experimental for that
<HazRPG> ah wait, 195.36.11 is final
<ali1234> ok, is it the 260 that's beta then?
<ali1234> because that would make more sense
<HazRPG> no cos 256.35 is stable too apparently - but has had a lot of bug fixes, and the 195.36 only had one
<HazRPG> so would be safe to assume that 195.36 seems to be less error prune then 265
<HazRPG> sorry 260 even
<MartijnVdS> error prune
<MartijnVdS> nice typo :)
<ali1234> i'm pretty sure the 195 driver still had that horrible memory leak where xorg chucks away 1GB of ram per day for no reason
<brobostigon> ali1234: when i was running debian sid, i basiclly  pulled have the system from experimental, more or less. especially when i started using gnome-shell, and needed to pull gtk3, and the new app version that go with.
<brobostigon> pulled half*
<brobostigon> versions*
<ali1234> yeah, i'm not the slightest bit interested in gnome3
<HazRPG> hmm
<HazRPG> okay, so you officially confused me ali1234 - but I think I've /sort of/ worked it out
<ali1234> i didn't confuse you
<HazRPG> you were saying that both released within moments of each other (almost)
<ali1234> nvidia did it
<ali1234> ???
<ali1234> i just want to know how the version numbers work
<ali1234> and under what definition 195 could be considered to be supported
<ali1234> specifically i want to know which series 195 fits into
<ali1234> is it the same series as 260?
<ali1234> if it is, why were there multiple releases in the same series but out of order?
<mungojerry> i had a severe problem where my nvidia card couldn't handle 2 monitors due to performance issues...now i'm wondering if it was the driver or the stick of super slow memory i accidentally put in the machine
<ali1234> and why do they skip like 50 version numbers?
<HazRPG> well both 195 and 260 appear to be similar with card compatibility
<mungojerry> ali1234: yo uare trying to attribute common sense to a nonlogical problem :P
<HazRPG> ali1234: I just noticed the drivers one the first link doesn't show 173
<HazRPG> ah crud no...
<ali1234> yes it does
<HazRPG> yeah, just realised :/
<HazRPG> I was looking at 71 and 173 (confusion me...)
<HazRPG> ali1234: ... hmm, I have a feeling the numbers are just based on when it was forked off
<ali1234> yes
<ali1234> that's exactly my point
<HazRPG> commit . fork-commit . version
<ali1234> 195 was forked off last june or earlier
<ali1234> but now it is not listed with the other legacy drivers
<ali1234> why?
<HazRPG> ali1234: ah, but the fork could have been from a different code base
<HazRPG> as in, not the time it was forked - the number of which they were forking it from
<HazRPG> would explain the leap between 195 - 260
<HazRPG> 260 is probably the main commit number
<directhex> there's no jump
<HazRPG> hmm, odd
<HazRPG> 1.x.x is how it started, and went to 100.x.x
<directhex> the version number for the "latest version" keeps going up, although not all versions get a public release. when they remove support for some hardware, they fork that one off
<HazRPG> then went 169.x 71.x.x
<HazRPG> yeah, that's what I was thinking (when I tried to explain my fork theory)
<directhex> the first linux release was 43.49
<HazRPG> what's 1.0-1251 that was released in 2001 then :P
<directhex> oh, and the version number is tied to the windows forceware version number it's based on
<directhex> HazRPG, oh, yeah, the really really legacy ones in XFree86_40
<HazRPG> ;)
<HazRPG> lost track of my mind thought...
<directhex> even 41.80 for amd64
<directhex> anyway, use the latest version your hardware supports. that's the rule o' thumb. 270.30 is the latest on nvidia.com
<HazRPG> ah I remember now (after scrolls), mungojerry: how do ya mean store awkward stuff? and your fascination with old stuff wears off so easily how?
<HazRPG> I think I was going to word that differently earlier - but I forgets
<ali1234> http://www.nvidia.com/object/unix.html latest is 260.19.44
<mungojerry> HazRPG: awkward stuff is the nitty gritty details of what driver needs installing with which card etc...when you get to 35 you want things to just work without remembering so much :)
<HazRPG> ali1234: latest, as in beta driver is 270
<mungojerry> and as for old stuff.. the nostalgia draws me in but the reality often disappoints
<HazRPG> ali1234: http://www.nvidia.co.uk/object/linux-display-amd64-270.26-driver-uk.html
<HazRPG> mungojerry: reality of what?
<mungojerry> HazRPG: reality of playing old games you used to love
<mungojerry> in my memory the graphics and gameplay are better
<mungojerry> the reality is that the graphics really suck
<mungojerry> and you get a bit bored
<HazRPG> mungojerry: I wouldn't say that, I most of my friends are in the the 25-40... and most of them still get down to nitty gritty - it just depends how much your really into it
<knightwise> i would like to setup a vm just to play Xwing vs Tie fighter again
<mungojerry> HazRPG: there's nitty gritty and nitty gritty :P
<HazRPG> :P
<knightwise> but i'm not sure if it would would run inside a vm
<gord> knightwise, wasn't that a dos game?
<HazRPG> knightwise: what type of games?
<HazRPG> knightwise: if dos - try DOSbox instead
<MartijnVdS> DOSbox ftw
<knightwise> dosbox ?
<MartijnVdS> I've been playing Frontier: Elite 2  again
<HazRPG> knightwise: if old-school windows (pre-XP), try wine ;)
<MartijnVdS> knightwise: dosbox.
<knightwise> is that a vm ?
<knightwise> it is old school windwos
<HazRPG> knightwise: it's a dos emulator ;)
<MartijnVdS> knightwise: sort of-ish.
<knightwise> ya think i might be able to pull that off under wine , would be very very cool
 * knightwise loves xwing vs tie fighter
<HazRPG> knightwise: VMs = computer emulator, dosbox = Just dos emulator
<knightwise> i'm not sure if itss a complete dosgame
<knightwise> dont think so
<HazRPG> knightwise: if its pre-XP, wine will run it more then perfectly
<ali1234> Xwing was pure dos
<gord> its a windows game, 1997
<ali1234> i used to have to use a dos bootdisc to play it because it wouldn't work properly through win3.1
<HazRPG> if in doubt, check www.winehq.org
<popey> or run file foo.exe :)
<mungojerry> MartijnVdS: ever play oolite?
<popey> oooo i have a hankering for some oldschool dos games now
<knightwise> http://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=application&iId=8156
<MartijnVdS> mungojerry: oolite?
<MartijnVdS> mungojerry: don't know it
<mungojerry> oolite is a remake of the original elite, but is fantastic
<mungojerry> really well made
<MartijnVdS> oooo
<HazRPG> knightwise: seems dosbox will run X-Wing: http://www.dosbox.com/wiki/GAMES:X-Wing
<mungojerry> MartijnVdS: the best thing is that the expansion packs actually allow the legendary generation ships and other ficititous stuff
<knightwise> yeah , but its xwing vs Tie fighter (different game)
<MartijnVdS> mungojerry: it's more like elite than frontier
<knightwise> maybe i just need a legacy PIII machine running Windows 98 :)
<MartijnVdS> mungojerry: (i.e. ship control is annoying)
<mungojerry> MartijnVdS: never played frontier. it's like arcElite..annoying how?
<HazRPG> knightwise: http://ubuntuforums.org/archive/index.php/t-1404466.html
<HazRPG> knightwise: discussion about X-Wing vs Tie Fighter
<ali1234> mungojerry: in frontier they had "realistic" physics
<ali1234> ie you could keep accelerating for half an hour
<ali1234> then it took another half an hour too stop
<gord> for those that suddenly need to play dos games, you can buy digital downloads here :) http://www.gog.com/
<mungojerry> lol
<HazRPG> knightwise: there was no game called just "X-Wing" or just "Tie fighter", there was only X-Wing vs Tie fighter
<ali1234> this usually resulted in the autopilot slamming you into a planet or something
<mungojerry> ali1234: is that a good thing ?
<ali1234> frontier was basically unplayable because of this
<mungojerry> ali1234: have you tried oolite ?
<ali1234> yes
<gord> HazRPG, what? yes there was
<gord> HazRPG, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Wars:_X-Wing_%28series%29
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: that was not frontier, that was first encounters
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: frontier was quite nice
<mungojerry> no game comes close to reviving the gaming joys of my youth
<ali1234> frontier was exactly the same as first encounters
<ali1234> they tried to actually fix some of the problems in first encounters
<ali1234> but it was basically just ane xpansion pack
<ali1234> the other lol thing about frontier was the broken copy protection
<HazRPG> gord: either way, that thread mentions that it should work in dosbox
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: first encounters had textures
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: and copy protection actually worked for me
<ali1234> yes, FE had textures on PC
<ali1234> because it came after frontier
 * popey hugs MartijnVdS for introducing him to lemongrass
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: FE crashed a lot, F didn't (for me, on PC)
<MartijnVdS> popey: â« A journey to a star
<ali1234> it was even fully named frontier: first encounters
<ali1234> because it was basically the same game, except finished, unlike frontier which was totally broken
<popey> Bee
<screen-x> Elite \o/
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: FFE was shipped early/unfinished.
<ali1234> no, frontier was shipped early/unfinished
<ali1234> FFE might have been as well, i don't know, they never made an amiga version
 * screen-x goes back to sleep^Wwork
<ali1234> not that i would have bought it after the awful mess of frontier
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: Maybe the amiga version was shipped early.. the PC version is OK :)
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: it's not as bad as FFE
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: ah, the PC version of Frontier was re-written in asm
<mungojerry> i wonder what games people will be fondly recollecting in 20 years time
<brobostigon> ok, suggestions, i need something constructive to do.
<mungojerry> popey: are you near your natty PC, or at work?
<DJones> mungojerry: People will still be talking about Manic Miner & Jetset Willy
<popey> i am on a natty pc, but booted to osx
<popey> cant reboot it atm
<mungojerry> popey: OK..i have lots of breakage right now, wondering if others had it ..no probs
<mungojerry> DJones: and world of goo hopefully :P
<brobostigon> mungojerry: i am on natty, but inside gnome-shell not unity, can i help.
<DJones> mungojerry: I've heard of that, but never seen it
<mungojerry> DJones: really?
<DJones> mungojerry: Really, and I've never seen Angry Birds :)
 * mungojerry resists making a joke...
<mungojerry> world of goo is part of humble indie bundle
<mungojerry> you could buy for any price u wanted
<mungojerry> it's a great little game
<ali1234> world of goo is kind of forgettable
<ali1234> it's not hard enough
<ali1234> at least not the shareware levels
<brobostigon> angry birds is just around 17MB, thats too big, :(
<mungojerry> ali1234: i think the shareware levels/demo ones were the first few to get you into the game
<ali1234> i didn't feel like i wanted to see any more after those
<mungojerry> i tend to prefer indie games
<ali1234> actually my impression of the game could be summed up as "lemmings without the character or challenge"
<mungojerry> mmm lemmings
<mungojerry> lemmings first few levels were easy too
<DJones> I must find a version of choplifter
<ali1234> but the demos they made were moe challenging than the beginner levels
<mungojerry> twas a great game
<xr1> Hi, is there any way I can send documents to another computer and print then off automatically?
<Myrtti> thank you universe, for giving me a headache
<xr1> Example, I work from office and sent docs to home and get them to print off automatically?
<AlanBell> xr1: send by email?
<DJones> xr1: I did see something the other day from google that would let you do that
<MartijnVdS> expose the printer over the internet
<MartijnVdS> and then use it :)
<mungojerry> you could have a watch folder in ubuntuone/dropbox
<AlanBell> use ssh to tunnel home and print
<DJones> xr1: http://www.google.com/chrome/intl/en/p/cloudprint.html
<DJones> But sounds like it might only be windows at the minute
<Myrtti> "For Windows XP, Vista, and 7"
 * MartijnVdS 's printer has an IPv6 address
<MartijnVdS> if I open up my firewall, anyone can print to it :)
<AlanBell> cat /dev/random > printer.martijnVdS.net
<DJones> Hmmh https://github.com/armooo/cloudprint#readme
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: good thing my firewall is still on then
<xr1> DJones: that might work then because the persons computer is windows 7, only mine is ubuntu.
<DJones> xr1: I've not looked into it any further other than thinking that it was a good idea
<xr1> Ok thanks for your help.
<kazade> what the... all of our sites have gone down, even though they run on different hosts and it's not a DNS issue..
<kazade> is anyone else seeing a widespread outage?
<kazade> I have sites on Webfusion and EC2 not responding..
<mungojerry> nope
<mungojerry> http://www.downforeveryoneorjustme.com/
<kazade> yeah, that's returning that they are all down
<kazade> even using IP addresses
<kazade> this makes absolutely no sense
<screen-x> kazade: url?
<kazade> www.postgrad.com
<kazade> or www.riverhall.co.uk
<kazade> one is EC2 the other is Wordpress
<kazade> there is NOTHING in common with the DNS, they are separate DNS hosts
<mungojerry> yeah, they are bust
<screen-x> both look down from here
<kazade> wtf?
<kazade> how in the world does that happen?
<mungojerry> haven't heard any explosions
<mungojerry> housed in the same data centre?
<kazade> the former is EC2, the latter is Wordpress.com
<mungojerry> remember that fire in texas Datacentre that took out millions of sites
<kazade> also I have another VM that is WebFusion, and that's down too
<mungojerry> perhaps wordpress use EC2 :P
<screen-x> wordpress.com is ok from here
<kazade> yeah, the site itself is..
<screen-x> http://twitter.com/#search?q=ec2
<kazade> ah ok..
<kazade> there is a redirect I forgot about
<screen-x> ah
<popey> hehe
<popey> PICNIC
<kazade> but still WebFusion and EC2..
<popey> Problem In Chair, Not In Computer
<mungojerry> traceroute dies at amazon
<mungojerry> other traceroute dies at BlueConnex-Infrastructure
<mungojerry> maybe they all just hate u
<mungojerry> yay just saved my company Â£200 on a 5 PC order by dropping the windows tax :)
<brobostigon> :)
<mungojerry> some things in this world are just wrong...one of them is win tax
 * brobostigon gets mungojerry some live usb, alternate install media, to install from.
<mungojerry> PXE boot :)
<brobostigon> :)
<mungojerry> ready on your desk in 20 mins sir
<brobostigon> :)
<mungojerry> or 10 mins without adobe_reader.rpm
<kazade> ok, I'm wrong
<mungojerry> hugs kazade
<kazade> everything is somehow related to EC2 not responding
<mungojerry> puts 50p in the meter for amazon
<kazade> yet, all the EC2 instances are up.. and the Elastic IPs are point at them
<kazade> and the security group hasn't changed
<screen-x> kazade: can you connect out from the ec2 instances?
<kazade> I can't ssh TO the ec2 instances :(
<screen-x> kazade: :(
<screen-x> no issues showing on http://status.aws.amazon.com/
<screen-x> DJones: just tried that cloudprint proxy from github, works :)
<DJones> screen-x: Excellent, I'll have to look at installing that
<screen-x> DJones: seems to be limited to printing from mobile devices at the moment.. strange.
<kazade> aha, ok I can get to one VM
<kazade> it's in eu-west-1b the others are in eu-west-1a
<DJones> screen-x: Not so useful then
<screen-x> DJones: no, not till support is added to desktop versions of gmail,docs,etc
<kazade> "Small number of EC2 instances unavailable in a single availability zone in the EU-WEST-1 region."
<kazade> balls
<ali12345> i thought the cloud was supposed to fix problems like that?
 * popey looks for the silver lining on kazade's cloud
<popey> ooo, you have gained a 5 ali12345
<kazade> popey, what makes things worse
<kazade> is I was made redundant 1 hour ago
<ali12345> popey: i'm inside a debian VM
<mungojerry> kazade: really, no :(
<kazade> yes
<mungojerry> kazade: more hugs
<mungojerry> that sucks dude
<ali12345> trying to figure out what it will take to migrate away from ubuntu
<kazade> so coming back from the lunch meeting where I get the sack, I get an urgent message that everything is down
<daubers> kazade: Where are you based?
<kazade> today is pannign out REALLY well
<kazade> Pinner
<kazade> NW London
<daubers> Really? Who where you working for?
<kazade> a small company :)
<kazade> of just me and the boss
<daubers> Not Bluefish or Polar graphic
<popey> oh crud, sorry to hear that kazade
<kazade> nah
<kazade> :(
<popey> when's last day?
<kazade> well, my boss has been quite generous, he's basically said he'll keep me on till I find another job
<mungojerry> lunch meetings where you get the sack are rubbish...i had one of those but i was told before i bit into my sossy sandwich that i'd paid for.. it didn't get eaten after...
<kazade> but I don't expect that to last more than 2 months max
<popey> thats good
<screen-x> kazade: awww not a good day :(
<mungojerry> cz-tab is hiring
<screen-x> daubers: snap up a gooden
<mungojerry> http://i.imgur.com/2JEiF.png here's my unity session right now.
<ali1234> "lol"
<davmor2> mungojerry: saying cz-tab instead of czajkowski is likely to get you stabbed, beaten or laughed at depending on her mood
<kazade> phew, EC2 is back
<screen-x> mungojerry: lost gnome-settings-daemon?
<mungojerry> davmor2: now you pinger her i probably will get stabbed along with you too
<mungojerry> :)
<mungojerry> screen-x: i dunno what's happened tbh...after a recent updatre
<screen-x> kazade: both sites look ok now
<DJones> mungojerry: I wouldn't worry, 1st offence is only the naughty step and davmor2 + MooDoo have got that fully occupied
<mungojerry> DJones: lol
<davmor2> mungojerry: she has cz listed to ping her
<mungojerry> really? scary
<mungojerry> thats like popey listing uupc
<mungojerry> i mentioned it once in a room far far away and popey came running
<mungojerry> i don't think pidgin has that feature
<popey> :)
<popey> i have some odd things on highlight
<mungojerry> i was hoping to find anyone running unity to confirm if i've broken my install or not
<mungojerry> popey: is it an irc function or your client?
<popey> irssi
<mungojerry> ah
<davmor2> mungojerry: it looks like you have defaulted to the default gnome icons, open a terminal and type unity see if that fixes it for you
<mungojerry> davmor2: tried that, and unity --reset
<mungojerry> reboot, and all
<davmor2> mungojerry: have you tried sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get dist-upgrade it may be a package breakage
<mungojerry> davmor2: yes, unfortuatneyly
<davmor2> mungojerry: ask gord to fix it /me runs for cover
<gord> mungojerry, why do you have gnome panel on there?
<mungojerry> i haven't done anything special
<gord> it looks like you have broken your install
<gord> get an alpha 3 live image
<mungojerry> it just appeared like that :(
<mungojerry> ok, so long as it's just me , i'll destroy and try again...
<popey> I wouldnt
<popey> if it were me
<mungojerry> what's gir11.2.unity?
<mungojerry> !gir1
<mungojerry> gord, should my machine also be acting liek winxp in that it is a quick boot and then longish wait to a working desktop?
<mungojerry> just froze my machine HARD ..think its time for the new image..
 * daubers was hoping his new HDD would turn up today :(
<davmor2> daubers: it will 2 minutes after you go out somewhere
<daubers> davmor2: Coming through work, so probably not :)
<daubers> Hooray for enterprise grade 2.5" disks
<screen-x> where can I redirect mountall output during boot to, so that it will survive?
<screen-x> bug 445181
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 445181 in nfs-utils (Ubuntu) "mount of nfs fails at boot - Karmic beta" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/445181
<screen-x> suggests > /dev/.udev/mountall.log 2>&1
<screen-x> but the log file doesn't seem to survive
<screen-x> :q
<daubers> screen-x: /dev/tty0?
<daubers> can you pipe to a tty like that?
<daubers> screen-x: Or to a bit of python to throw it out the serial connection :)
<popey> that seems like an odd place to log
<screen-x> popey: yeah, but its got to be a fairly odd place to exist before mountall runs, and survive
<czajkowski> davmor2: oi!
<mungojerry> yay fixed my unity problem :)
<popey> screen-x: /etc somewhere :)
<screen-x> it also seems to work, as the bug reporter is able to obtain a log.
<screen-x> popey: will etc be mounted?
<davmor2> czajkowski: what now?
<popey> I should hope so
 * screen-x tries it
<czajkowski> davmor2: comment up there
<davmor2> czajkowski: What it's true you don't like cz-tab <cztab> :P and you do stab, beat or laugh depending on your mood :P
<daubers> Might not be as you may still be in the initramfs
<mungojerry> davmor2: this reminds me of the time i met a guy called ginger john, except i didn't know thats what everyone called him when he WASN'T THERE
 * kazade sighs
<kazade> I need a beer
<mungojerry> not surprised dude, bad day for you :(
 * knightwise loves ssh :) working at a clients place with all the comforts from home
<bigcalm> PHP's error_log - I need to log E_ALL to file as well as it continuing to go to stdout (web browser). Any idea how?
<DJones> knightwise: Wouldn't the better idea be to work from home using ssh to access the clients system, then you do get all the comforts of home
<knightwise> lol thats true
<knightwise> well , i'm fixing up a mac onsite
<knightwise> so
<screen-x> trying to write to /etc/ caused mountall to fail completely, I ended up at the give password for maintainance or Control-D to continue prompt.
<X3N> bigcalm: display_errors = on ; error_log = /var/log/php-erros.log
<screen-x> I'm having this problem where NFS mounts fail, and cause boot to fail. Its probably due to complicated networking config, which package should I file a bug against?
<bigcalm> Ta
<screen-x> nfs-common?
<X3N> (in php.ini obviously)
<bigcalm> Going to put into .htaccess instead. I only want logging on one site
<X3N> oh right, yeah
<brobostigon> i have my brother burning a linux live cd, so we can repair his hdd's, because window's have messed up.
<brobostigon> has*
<knightwise> hahah  found a cool apple wallpaper
<knightwise> " i replaced a pc" it says :)
<knightwise> need one of those for linux
<mungojerry> i want one that says "i don't need no antivirus"
<knightwise> hahah :) that would be a good one too
<popey> knightwise: url?
<knightwise> http://www.macwallpapers.eu/wallpaper/Pc-Mac-Apple-Leopard-Os-Desktop/
<mungojerry> i've seen one of a lady dressed as a french maid, saying "i don't do windows"
<mungojerry> rather surprised how much flesh is on display when using strict search in google images for ubuntu wallpaper
 * popey notes a mac _is_ a pc
<knightwise> symantics
<czajkowski> popey: missing from #council channel :)
<MartijnVdS> popey: It's not quite IBM-PC compatible
<mungojerry> http://ipadwallpaper.eu/wallpapers/2/android-eating-apple.jpg :P
<popey> neither were olivetti pcs and they were still called pc
<popey> aaaanyway
<popey> home time \o/
<bigcalm> Even with piping tar over ssh from one ubuntu machine to another, only getting 2MB/s over wifi :(
<screen-x> bigcalm: roobesh
<bigcalm> screen-x: iain@iain-Studio-1558:~/Music$ tar cf - . | ssh revo "cd /media/exdrive1/Music; tar xf -"
<screen-x> bigcalm: test with iperf afterwards
<andylockran> hey guys
<andylockran> how's things?
<screen-x> howdy howdy howdy andylockran ;-)
<andylockran> :)
<andylockran> I'm loved.
<bigcalm> Watching the bandwidth usage on the router shows a range of 2MB/s to 2.5MB/s
<bigcalm> I have never ever ever seen more than 2ish MB/s on scp in an internal network
<bigcalm> A bit depressing
<X3N> there's a reasonably large overhead for sshfs, but I've had better speeds than that
<bigcalm> What's the best method to copy over a trusted network then?
<MartijnVdS> networks aren't trusted.
<X3N> I use woof
<gord> i just use samba everywhere...
<knightwise> Gaah ! Fracking bootcamp drivers
<X3N> bigcalm: http://www.home.unix-ag.org/simon/woof.html
<bigcalm> X3N: cheers
<X3N> usage ./woof.py file_you_want_to_send.lolz
<bigcalm> X3N: 15gb of mp3s :)
<screen-x> bigcalm: nfs
<X3N> or maybe rsync
<screen-x> bigcalm: also you can put pv in the pipe, to see how fast its flowing
<bigcalm> Humm
<bigcalm> I can see the data rate on the router
<X3N> you could setup a light http server, and then wget the files..
<X3N> wget -np -r
<screen-x> or you could print each mp3 an A1 sized qr code
<knightwise> and use a pen to copy them over
 * bigcalm head-desks
<dogmatic69> anyone used gitosis before?
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: why? :)
<bigcalm> error_log isn't saving to file :(
<dogmatic69> looking for the web front end stuff
<MartijnVdS> ?!
 * brobostigon puts apillow between bigcalm's head, and the desk.
<mungojerry> is tempted to perform an scp test on his network
<bigcalm> Using ini_set('error_log', '/foo/bar.log'); which I know works on another project
<bigcalm> But not here
<MartijnVdS> haha php
<MartijnVdS> :P
 * mungojerry is breaking the sysadmin golden rule again by upgrading software late on friday
<screen-x> mungojerry: Nooooooooooooo! Doooooont do it!
 * screen-x has learnt this lesson. 
<dogmatic69> nothing like working to the early hours of sunday morning :)
<mungojerry> it's not software that will affect the infrastructure
<mungojerry> it's independent - either it will work, or not
<screen-x> mungojerry: hmmmmmm nothing is ever independent.
<bigcalm> How would I watch ls | wc ?
<X3N> watch 'ls | wc' ?
<bigcalm> Aha
<mungojerry>  watch --interval 1 "ls | wc -l"
<bigcalm> Thanks both :)
<X3N> mungojerry: --interval=1 or -n 1
<X3N> ;)
<mungojerry> hmm..works on my machine :P
<X3N> the ;) was for the pedants
<kazade> my google-foo is failing me.. how do I create a bzr branch without a working tree?
<kazade> oops --no-tree
<kazade> sigh, it's one of those days today
<mungojerry> screen-x: upgrade was a success :P
<bigcalm> Gah, error_log() was sending to the apache error log, not the file I had specified
 * bigcalm sighs
<screen-x> mungojerry: yay :)
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-12703674
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: now you want a ZX as well as the C64 ;)
<mungojerry> anyone who hasn't seen micromen on BBC should watch it
 * brobostigon has seen it multiple times, :)
<mungojerry> gonna try and give up IRC next week
<MartijnVdS> mungojerry: NOOOO
<mungojerry> spending too many idle brain CPU cycles on it
<fourkuchen> just testing
<bigcalm> Need tunes to help get me to Scotland tonight! http://open.spotify.com/user/bigcalm/playlist/1uaHyQu6aLNkcK2CFFERTr
<screen-x> bigcalm: where are you starting from?
<bigcalm> screen-x: Telfordish, it's a 5.5 hour drive
<screen-x> ouch
<bigcalm> Yeah, I'm going to be tired
<bigcalm> We'll stop a couple of times though
<screen-x> Hugs at the other end?
<mungojerry> if anyone sees me on here next week you have permission to beat me up
<bigcalm> screen-x: the bed will be hugging me if that's what you mean?
<fourkuchen> Anyone using XChat Gnome?
<screen-x> mungojerry: request acknowledged
<mungojerry> :)
<mungojerry> i tend to binge on it and then starve myself
<mungojerry> i'll wean myself off by reading logs
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: what kind of music do you like?
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: I'm open minded
<screen-x> mungojerry: if only I could kick you, that would add much to the comedy :p
<bigcalm> I'm hoping people will just add stuff to the playlist and then GF and I can pick/choose
<bigcalm> :)
<mungojerry> bigcalm: can't get in to work under wine :(
<mungojerry> the playlist thing
<bigcalm> Oh, that sucks
<MartijnVdS> grooveshark would work
<mungojerry> i think there's some jigger pokery req'd in ffox
 * screen-x goes home, have greate weekends everybody
<MartijnVdS> that's browser-based
<bigcalm> I'll get the spotify url
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: using spotify as I have it on my phone
<bigcalm> spotify:user:bigcalm:playlist:1uaHyQu6aLNkcK2CFFERTr
<bigcalm> Put that into the spotify search
<MartijnVdS> nice & memorable ;)
<MartijnVdS> the playlist is empty, correc\t?
<mungojerry> i can see an empty list
<mungojerry> not sure how to add tracks
<mungojerry> any type of music preferred?
<mungojerry> fave bands?
<bigcalm> It's empty atm, yes
<MartijnVdS> not anymore
<bigcalm> There, added one myself
<alexcockell_> Personally - that's why I like We7...
<bigcalm> ?
<bigcalm> mungojerry: I'm open minded and looking for suggestions. We'll skip things that don't work for us :)
<mungojerry> just added a couple
<bigcalm> Aha, love to see it updating in real time :)
<bigcalm> Thanks
<bigcalm> Ah, I was listening to that Yann Tiersen album 2 days ago. Very nice :)
<mungojerry> bigcalm: really?
<mungojerry> i bought it after 50 x listens on spotify
<mungojerry> never found another preson who liked
<bigcalm> Goodness
<mungojerry> amelie is one of favourite films
<bigcalm> My GF has yet to see Amelie. Might take the DVD with us incase we have terrible weather
<MartijnVdS> good idea
<mungojerry> u will get big hugs and kisses afterwards
<bigcalm> Hehe
<mungojerry> feelgood film
<bigcalm> Very
<mungojerry> safe trip btw
<bigcalm> Thanks :)
<MartijnVdS> 5 hours you said? :)
<bigcalm> 5.5 plus stops
<bigcalm> It'll be gone midnight before we get to the PremireInn I think
<mungojerry> electric 6
<mungojerry> ace
<mungojerry> ugh should have left already for home
<bigcalm> Hehe
<bigcalm> Hehe
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: good track, don't think my GF will like it though ;)
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: which one? :) I've added tons
<bigcalm> The Orbital track
<MartijnVdS> ah :)
<directhex> http://www.we7.com/#/song/Orbital/Doctor ?
<slobex> zdravo
<bigcalm> directhex: Halycon and on and on
<bigcalm> But that's a good choice!
<bigcalm> cy not yc
<DJones> Damm, & I'd just worked out that zdravo was slovenian/croatian ish
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: tell me when to stop :)
<bigcalm> Carry on :)
<bigcalm> It'll update even when we're on the road
<bigcalm> Wondering if I should tell my phone to make it an offline pl though
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: when are you leaving? :)
<brobostigon> thank you MS Windows, you messed up one my brothers hdd's. :(
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: 12 mins ago :S
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: I'm still filling the playlist :)
<bigcalm> Hehe, good show ;)
<bigcalm> An apache error log gets blanked each day, is there a way to tail the log into a new file that just constantly updates? I have read access on the log file but can't alter the vhost
<MartijnVdS> tail -F apache.log :)
<MartijnVdS> -F vs -f
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: tail -F error.log > big_error_log
<bigcalm> Cheers :)
<bigcalm> I can leave that running in a screen over the weekend on the client's server and then poke it on Monday
<brobostigon> ubuntu live cd to the rescue,
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: now leave, with the music on random :)
<ali1234> hmm i might take kubuntu for a spin
<ali1234> maybe it's time to go back to KDE
<ali1234> after all it's been over 5 years since i switched to gnome
<MartijnVdS> 7-year itch? :)
<ali1234> no, i just don't like where gnome3 is going
<ali1234> and gtk is dead
<ali1234> can't really see why anyone would attempt to write new software with it
<ali1234> the main problem i had with KDE was it is an incredibly powerful system with the world's most ugly UI on top of it
<ali1234> where as gnome is pretty much the reverse
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: last time I used KDE it felt crashy
<ali1234> yeah me too
<MartijnVdS> it felt like it could crash any second during use
<MartijnVdS> Unity feels the same now
<ali1234> but that was like 2005
<ali1234> yeah, this is the thing
<ali1234> KDE always felt like there was a disconnect between when you click something and when it gets done
<ali1234> and like sometimes the message got lost somewhere
<ali1234> and the other problem is it has hundreds of different icons and buttons and they all do the same thing
<domjohnson> Sorry to spam...but here is a petition on having a no-fly zone in Libya - https://secure.avaaz.org/en/libya_no_fly_zone_1/
 * bigcalm buggers off
<jgjones> brobostigon, Ubuntu Live CD is just as useful for rescuing OSX
<brobostigon> jgjones: i did not know that, :)
<jgjones> brobostigon, wife's macbook pro went dead, corrupt file system. she took to Apple Store, they put in OSX disc and into rescue mode. It cannot read file system. Staff said the only possible choice is to reinstall and reformat disk.
<brobostigon> jgjones: oh dear, :(
<jgjones> brobostigon, lucky she texted me then. told her to bring it home and let me sort it out. Pop in Ubuntu Live CD. It read all files just fine. OSX's rescue mode can't read it and offer to format.
<brobostigon> jgjones: good move,yes, :)
<jgjones> brobostigon, and nagged her to use Time Machine more often after recovering all files. "Genius" my arse at the store, it's not the ONLY choice :)
<brobostigon> i agree, yes.
<MartijnVdS> te
<Myrtti> meh.
<popey> meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeh
<MartijnVdS> popey: moooo
 * popey kicks off an rsync to copy ~5TB from one place to another at 50MB/s
 * popey expects this to take some time
<davmor2> popey: minute or 2 then
<Myrtti> http://www.flickr.com/photos/myrtti/5517464149/
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: awww
<cbx333> 50MB
<cbx333> is that all
<cbx333> :p
<popey> sadly yes
<popey> from one filer to another over the network
 * cbx333 pats his fibre backup :)
<cbx333> 140MB/s sometimes :)
<ali1234> cool, i just figured out how to make kde look nice
<popey> oh this will go up to 300MB
<popey> I am rate limiting it
<ali1234> you have to tell it to use gtk+ themes and then start gnome-settings-daemon
<popey> heh
<cbx333> awww
<ali1234> and then you get decent looking buttons
<cbx333> suck
<cbx333> nice one popey
<cbx333> you beat me
<cbx333> hey ali1234
<popey> hah
<cbx333> howz it going
<popey> not my hardware :)
<cbx333> 4GB/s ?
<cbx333> Gb/s
<ali1234> cbx333: not bad, just looking for a replacement for ubuntu
<cbx333> oh
<cbx333> any particular reason?
<ali1234> unity
<cbx333> yah
<brobostigon> ali1234: wh not try the gnome3 ppa ?
<popey> hahaha
<ali1234> because gnome3 is the only thing worse than unity
<popey> "If you think Unity is bad, you should see GNOME 3!"
 * brobostigon disagres with ali1234 
<ali1234> yeah that's pretty much what i tell people all the time
<cbx333> really?
<cbx333> oh man
<cbx333> what are we going to do?
 * cbx333 is starting to sniff
<ali1234> switch to debian of course
<brobostigon> ali1234: it opinion, give people a chance to form their own,
<cbx333> ahh
<cbx333> of course
<cbx333> drawbacks?
<ali1234> the only one i found so far is their nvidia driver is 6 months out of date
<ali1234> but as long as it works i don't really care
<cbx333> but debian won't have my awesomely awesome startupsound :p
<cbx333> haha
 * cbx333 cringes
<brobostigon> cbx333: i have a bit of pink floyd as  mystartup sound,
<cbx333> you disabled my sound
 * cbx333 runs off crying
<ali1234> debian also has the advantage of not using pulseaudio by default, which means sound actually works
<cbx333> aye
<cbx333> as long as I can compile the latest Git I'm happy - and that I have latex packages :)
<brobostigon> anyways, alot of gtk apps will be using gtk3 from here on, so you will need gtk3 ali1234, eventaully.
<dutchie> gtk3 != gnome3
<ali1234> yeah, see my earlier comments
<cbx333> yeh
<brobostigon> dutchie: i agree. yes.
<ali1234> gtk+ is dead anyway
<ali1234> nobody will be writing new apps in gtk+, and the old ones won't get ported to 3
 * cbx333 is realising he's been out of open sourcedevving for too long
<cbx333> I used to love gtk+
<cbx333> should I start loving someone else
<cbx333> someone - please form some opinions for me
<ali1234> gtk was good back when Qt was still on version 3 and it sucked
<brobostigon> ali1234: again, that is a matter of opinion. dont form people's minds for them, let them make  their ownmind up. andlet everyone have their own opinion and a chance to form that,
<ali1234> however Qt4 is miles better than gtk in every respect
<cbx333> really?
<cbx333> interesting
<popey> brobostigon: he's not telling people how to think, he's expressing an opinion
<ali1234> Qt is s serious contender for development on windows and mac too
<cbx333> very interesting
<brobostigon> anyways, i dontlike this non'consructive drivel, so i am going to go get a beer.
<ali1234> you can't say that about gtk... gtk apps on windows are a joke
<popey> yeah, being cross platform is helpful
<cbx333> oh hey ali1234, there's bee quite a bit more added to GITT now
<brobostigon> popey: it didnt quite seem like that.
<popey> brobostigon: disagreeing with you doesnt automatically make it drivel
<popey> ali1234: agreed, gimp, tomboy and one other app i use on windows all look quite sucky
<brobostigon> popey: i agree, sorry, i am on my edge of my temper.
<brobostigon> ali1234: i am sorry,
<ali1234> brobostigon: no problem
<cbx333> so think debian will work with my new thinkpad when i get it ?
<cbx333> :p
 * brobostigon shuts up.
<ali1234> sure... i'm looking more towards kubuntu at the moment though
<popey> wonder how debian runs on mbps
<cbx333> i just can't stand kde4
<gord> macbook .. something something?
<cbx333> :p
<popey> pros
<ali1234> if i can just figure out how to tame the kde start menu and make the panels look decent
<gord> oh plural :)
<popey> ya
<gord> not mac book per second then
<cbx333> heh
<cbx333> wish i coiuld afford a macbook
<cbx333> but i think a thinkpad edge is going to be all i can muster
<ali1234> i have an ideapad with the swivelling screen... pretty neat
<ali1234> i will probably use unity on it
<ali1234> (it's a touch screen)
<cbx333> nice ali1234
 * cbx333 has debian 6 on a dvd from linux format
<cbx333> maybe I'll try it on an old hdd
<cbx333> in some ways I won't miss the constant upgrades
<cbx333> hey ali1234 you about?
<ali1234> yeah just annoying #kde with dumb questions
<cbx333> haha
<cbx333> oh - actually nevermind
<mungojerry> ali1234: i'd like to see your efforts in making kde look nice
 * mungojerry used to be a kde user
 * cbx333 too
<cbx333> but gnome was nicer
<cbx333> _was_
<cbx333> i wonder if debian would be faster on my little X41
<HazRPG> back
<mungojerry> cbx333: worried about unity?
<HazRPG> Mmm... good company + good coffee :)
 * cbx333 worries about the look of unity
<cbx333> i would feel dumb using it
<mungojerry> cbx333: i have natty installed, and gnome classic desktop works too
<cbx333> yeh?
<mungojerry> global menu is v easy to disable too
<cbx333> i jsut want my old gnome back :)
<mungojerry> it continues working as current gnome does
<mungojerry> yes, you can have that
<cbx333> but will it continue to
<ali1234> that's a given
<ali1234> pretty soon nobody will be developing the gnome 2 code base at all
<mungojerry> i'm interested in how ubuntu will use qt apps in future
<ali1234> which is why i am seeking an alternative
<mungojerry> gnome classic is still there for now. and since gnome shell is just a layer on top, surely it will continue (especially as gnome shell is a bit meh)
<ali1234> you know what bugs me the most about kde
<mungojerry> what's that al
<ali1234> they are not capable of calculating the middle of a region
<brobostigon> mungojerry: gnome-shell is not a layer ontop of gnome2, it is a toral redesign, and with new stuff, like a new WM, etc.
<mungojerry> brobostigon: oh :(
<brobostigon> total*
<ali1234> anything in KDE that is aligned either vertically or horizontally to the middle of any given region is pretty much guaranteed to be off by just enough pixels to make it look like it was just randomly slapped on the screen
<brobostigon> effectivly.*
<ali1234> for example, the clock, the tray resize icon, the workspace switcher all exhibit this flaw
<mungojerry> ali1234: KDE lost me when amarok etc got rewritten from scratch without loads of features...and the crashy bugs in 4.0-4.5 of course
<mungojerry> RHEL is still on kde3.5
<MartijnVdS> Let's band together and write a GOOD system :)
<mungojerry> RHEL6 is KDE4 though i think
<ali1234> amarok is another app that has this problem on almost every part of its UI
<mungojerry> amarok in kde4 is a travesty
<brobostigon> mungojerry: gnome2 used metacity as its WM. however gnome-shell uses something else. however gnome2* will be a fallback, like unity2d, i gnome-shell cant run.
<mungojerry> was previously best music app ever
<ali1234> actually, amarok is the example i always use when i want to demonstrate what's wrong with KDE because it shows off pretty much every flaw of the whole thing in one easy to reach place :)
<ali1234> i wonder if i can make kde use compiz... and gnome-panel
<brobostigon> !info mutter natty
<lubotu3> mutter (source: mutter): lightweight GTK+ window manager. In component main, is extra. Version 2.91.90-1ubuntu1 (natty), package size 307 kB, installed size 840 kB
<brobostigon> !info clutter natty
<lubotu3> Package clutter does not exist in natty
<mungojerry> ali1234:  or lxde?
<ali1234> lxde is rubbish
<speedxco1e> Anyone using backing up using s3?
<mungojerry> well no point panicking yet since clasic gnome is stil there
<mungojerry> u can panic when it dies :)
<ali1234> has all the same graphical problems as kde
<speedxco1e> I've decided to try S3, I looked at a fuse solution with s3fs, has anyone tried it?
<mungojerry> speedxco1e: not me sorry, although i stumbled over another solution called deja dup which handles s3
<brobostigon> mungojerry: gnome2 wont die quickly, however gnome3 will evolve, and evetually supersede gnome2.
<mungojerry> brobostigon: i don't quite understand the distinction between gnome3 and gnome2 ..i thought gnome3 was just getting rid of crud from gnome2
<brobostigon> mungojerry: i like to think of gnome3, as a modernisation, an evolution of gnome2.
<davmor2> mungojerry: Nope.  Gnome 3 is a new desktop, new apis, improved GTK etc etc etc it's a huge change from the 2 series in the same way as kde 4 and kde3
<mungojerry> can gnome classic DE can be implemented with gnome3?
<gord> davmor2, ehhh its not quite like kde4 - gtk isn't much different, there aren't that much different.. gnome 3 is 95% gnome shell
<MartijnVdS> gnome hell
<ali1234> mungojerry: yeah, just ignore gnome-shell (only make 1 workspace with it) and then just load up gnome-panel like normal
<gord> mungojerry, no not really, you are going to be running gnome-2 panel with metacity/compiz with gtk 3 applications
<mungojerry> so they could be phased out then
<mungojerry> as with kde3 stuffs
<mungojerry> too much breakage going on in the DE world :(
<davmor2> ali1234: I thought gnome lost the ability to add extra panels in gnome3
<ali1234> probably if you use the menus
<ali1234> if you run gnome-panel from a terminal it will probably still work
<gord> ubuntu 11.04 classic desktop is basically gnome3 without gnome-shell
<ali1234> it will be *inside* the workspace though
<brobostigon> mungojerry: i am running gnome3-team ppa, here on natty, and have bsiclly zero breakage at all.
<mungojerry> brobostigon: sorry, to clarify, by breakage i mean radical change :)
<brobostigon> mungojerry: i see, ok.
<ali1234> "radical" is a nice way of putting it
<mungojerry> at least kde4 is just gaining some stability if people wanna leave DE
<ali1234> it's still ugly as hell if you don't use gtk themes though
<mungojerry> ali1234: got a screenshot with the gtk theme?
<ali1234> um yeah... but it just looks like gnome
<ali1234> except with kwin window borders and an ugly panel
<ali1234> because the panel uses plasma now
<ali1234> and it doesn't respect theme
<mungojerry> ali1234: sounds ugly dude
<ali1234> http://imagebin.org/142428
<cbx333> Myrtti, you about?
<mungojerry> ali1234: ah, that's clearer now
<ali1234> trying to get rid of all the blue now
<cbx333> yuk
<cbx333> blue
<mungojerry> i'm sure gnome2 will remain in LTS until 12.04 :P
<brobostigon> mungojerry: intheory, unity is replacing gnome2 in natty. except as another boot option, and or fallback with unity2d.
<brobostigon> rephrase, metacity and gnome-panels. etc,
<mungojerry> brobostigon: are you using gnome shell on a daily basis right now?
<ali1234> http://imagebin.org/142431
<ali1234> getting better
<brobostigon> mungojerry: yes, and it working well, i amliking the workspace management.
<ali1234> it would look more like ubuntu if it was kubuntu - debian doesn't have human-murrine packaged
<mungojerry> ali1234: are u considering switching distro over this?
<ali1234> yes
<mungojerry> brobostigon: i have shell on my testing box..i added minimise window button though :)
<ali1234> ubuntu jumped the shark with "light-themes"
<brobostigon> mungojerry: for me, in gnome-shell there isnt anywhere to minimise windows too, in real terms, and a simple  doubleclick, doesmaximise, so iagree with their design decision.
<mungojerry> minimise=hide , in my opinion
<mungojerry> i understnad what you're saying, but i need to do that
<brobostigon> mungojerry: in which case, there isnt adesktop, to have anything on, so no need to minimise to desktop, and if i want to hide my  windows, i lock my screen.
<mungojerry> ali1234: why the light themes?
<mungojerry> was rather inconsequential to me
<mungojerry> still like ubuntu , just a bit uncertain about things
<ali1234> because my monitor is my main light source :)
<ali1234> also buttons-on-the-left
<brobostigon> mungojerry: i like  ubuntu aswell, debian as a whole. however i have always heavily customised things seperatly from the standerd, in various ways, so i amused to having to do that.
<brobostigon> am used*
<ali1234> i don't like customizing things
<mungojerry> back in the kde3.5 days it would take me days to arrive at the best setup
<ali1234> the less i have to customize the better
<mungojerry> gnome is a walk in the park compared to the effort required in kde ...
<ali1234> true
<ali1234> i don't think i will be switching to kde
<brobostigon> me and kde dont get on,
<ali1234> still not possible to make it look decent
<mungojerry> tbh gnome2+docky rules
<mungojerry> even if unity is poo ( and i hope it isn't), i can still run what i have now
<mungojerry> until somebody makes a workaround or fixes unity :P
<mungojerry> i already see unity launcher icon size patches etc, so i'm sure more will arrive
<ali1234> this is my desktop now: http://al.robotfuzz.com/~al/random/panels1.jpg
<mungojerry> and the guy who made docky is the unity launcher guy
<mungojerry> ali1234: there's always elementary :P
<ali1234> i wish you could install gnome and kde side by side without them polluting each other's menus
<MartijnVdS> chroot ;)
<mungojerry> argh got disconnected
<mungojerry> ali1234: i notice on your page you have stuff about the dg834g
<ali1234> yeah
<mungojerry> can you put ddwrt on it>
<ali1234> if you want
<mungojerry> i didn't know that
<ali1234> might now work, i dunno
<ali1234> use openwrt
<mungojerry> i switched to the talktalk hauwei modem when something went funny on my dg834 and wireless stopped functioning, possibly hardware
<ali1234> it's better
<mungojerry> didn't realise at the time that openwrt was possible
<ali1234> you'll probably lose wireless support
<ali1234> and adsl support
<mungojerry> lol
<mungojerry> so just an iptables/vpn box then?
<mungojerry> my nslu2 does most of that already
<ali1234> depends on hardware
<mungojerry> ok
<mungojerry> huawei router prob runs linux but we'll never now cos they don't seem to release the source under gpl
<ali1234> meh
<ali1234> you don't need source
<ali1234> it probably runs vxworks
<brobostigon> mungojerry: in which case they are braking the law.
<mungojerry> yes, but they are in china
<brobostigon> mungojerry: doesnt matter, thats still braking the law.
<ali1234> all you need to do is find another board with same CPU and patch the bootloader
<ali1234> breaking
<Azelphur> mungojerry: doesn't matter where they are companies all over the world get away with GPL violations :D
<Azelphur> Logitech for example isn't chinese and is currently stealing the Linux kernel
<Azelphur> nobody goes after them so they get away with it :(
<mungojerry> :(
<ali1234> busybox too
<ali1234> and u-boot
<Azelphur> G19 \o/
<Azelphur> mungojerry: I know Sony stole from VLC and never got done for it
<Azelphur> loads of android phones get released and have the kernel released late/never
<MartijnVdS> kernel people should sue more often
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: nope, I like where this is going
<MartijnVdS> why?
<brobostigon> sky is also using OSS, on their sky+ HD boxes,
<MartijnVdS> so you can steal the Linux kernel with impunity?
<Azelphur> make everyone depend on FOSS to start off
<Azelphur> then when everyone is depending on it, make them release the source legally
<Azelphur> puts a lot more pressure on everyone to release the source rather than rewrite
<ali1234> wait until everyone is using it, then unleash the most massive torrent of lawsuits ever
<Azelphur> ^ exactly
<Azelphur> I hope that's the EFF's plan, that'd be hilarious
<MartijnVdS> FSF*
<Azelphur> derp, indeed
<mungojerry> brobostigon: i thought sky was using QNX
<brobostigon> mungojerry: i didnt know that, interesting.
<penguin42> Azelphur: Sony have a download site for all of the GPL code used on their TVs and products; I know because I looked for the stuff used on the TV we got recently
<penguin42> it came with almost no printed documentation (except press that button for onscreen help...) and a copy of the GPL and other licenses
<Azelphur> penguin42: and yet they'll still write rootkits utilizing stolen VLC code :D
<MartijnVdS> my Philips TV came with an offer + printed GPL
<MartijnVdS> I have yet to take them up on the offer
<penguin42> (disappointingly the TV takes AGES to boot)
<Azelphur> haha
<Azelphur> My TV is just a standard TV, I do all the smartness outside the TV in a PC
<Azelphur> I use MythTV :D
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: you have an old CRT from the '60s?
<mungojerry> brobostigon: sorry, it runs XTV
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: not any more
<Azelphur> http://www.dropbox.com/gallery/3832397/1/MythTV2?h=2832c8
<mungojerry> IXI-Connect OS
<mungojerry> http://www.nds.com/solutions/xtv.php
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: we finally managed to get a new TV, my dad still keeps the old one, and the one before that, and the one before that, and the one before that, and the one before...
<brobostigon> mungojerry: ah, i will look that, up.
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: compulsive hoarding :)
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/Photos/March%202011/IMG_20110304_044133.jpg
<Azelphur> indeed
<mungojerry> brobostigon: i thought they were linux too,
<mungojerry> but someone told me otherwise.
<rob> (Can anyone suggest which channel I can get help with Mantis and gitweb)
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: the silver one on the right is 4 years old, the black one in the back is about 10, the wooden one at the front is older than I am, and the grey one is probably double my age :D
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: and this is the dining room haha, if I could get in his office I'd take more pictures, but think 15-21" CRT's stacked to the ceiling
<daubers> evening
<cbx33> Myrtti, ping
 * brobostigon haz chocolate, :)
 * AlanBell has wine with bubbles in it
<brobostigon> :)
<speedxco1e> nÃ¥n som vet om ubuntu one bygger pÃ¥ amazon s3?
<speedxco1e> ops
<speedxco1e> sry
<speedxco1e> Does anyone know if Ubuntu One storage service is based on amason s3?
<popey> i do
<popey> Actually I dont, but I know it uses EC2
<popey> whether they use S3 or not, I don't know
<speedxco1e> ah
<popey> how much of Amazon stuff they use, not sure
<popey> I have been poking it recently
<speedxco1e> popey: thing is I was investigating/comparing prices, and ubuntu one was just slightly more expensive, hence my suspision.
<popey> hmm, looking at it, it might actually be an ec2-like instance internal to canonical
<popey> using their own private cloud stuff
<popey> it looks to me like (for the public file sharing) they proxy all requests
<popey> what's behind that I can't tell
<speedxco1e> popey: ah ok. I guess someone likes to have some security by obscurity
<AlanBell> there is an #ubuntuone channel, they might have more of an idea
<cbx33> ahh security by obscurity :)
<hamitron> :)
<Azelphur> hamitron: have any use for (or know anyone who has any use for) a "new" 500W PSU?
<Azelphur> by "new" I mean, "Guy on IRC told me it was the right PSU when it actually wasn't"
<hamitron> 500W is plenty for a lot of systems...
<Azelphur> indeed
<Azelphur> but It's P4 and the system I built it for needs 8 pin
 * hamitron is using a 350W in this machine
<Azelphur> system I bought it for*
<hamitron> ah yeh
<hamitron> that is what stopped me considering LGA 1366
<hamitron> can you not get an adaptor?
<hamitron> whilst not ideal, better than a new PSU
<Azelphur> my new "Guy on IRC that tells me how to do things" says adapters arn't really a good idea
<hamitron> which is true, but a low power system probably won't be drawing huge currents
<Azelphur> it's not low power
<hamitron> :/
<Azelphur> It's a gaming mobo, quad core CPU, nvidia graphics card, 2 sata hdds
<hamitron> how much did it cost you?
<Azelphur> http://www.ebuyer.com/product/129422 Â£19.78
<directhex> yikes
<directhex> throw it out the window before it blows
<Azelphur> haha
<Azelphur> directhex: but the reviews are so friendly
<directhex> i don't care if it isn't plugged in, with cheap supplies you can't be sure that'll stop them exploding
 * hamitron uses cheap psu from ebuyer
<Azelphur> :P
<hamitron> not ones with gay boy lights though
<hamitron> ;/
<Azelphur> BLUE LEDS ARE NOT GAY :O
 * Azelphur glares at hamitron
<hamitron> they so are ;)
<Azelphur> *death stare*
<hamitron> ok then
<popey> ahem
<AlanBell> moving on
<hamitron> townie boy racer style then
<Azelphur> *continued death stare* :P
<directhex> here's what happens when you ask a "650W" cheap PSU for 400W http://img.hexus.net/v2/psu/taoyuan_34_2005/images/lol.avi
<hamitron> i got an expensive coolermaster psu.... and the case did not fit together in the factory
<Azelphur> the counter says 960W o.O
<hamitron> to the machine jammed it together, bending the case
<directhex> Azelphur, that's the power it's pulling in to supply 400W
<hamitron> so*
<directhex> Azelphur, shortly before exploding
<Azelphur> directhex: oh :P
<hamitron> and then a sticker was stuck on the bent part saying it has passed all tests!
<Azelphur> haha
<hamitron> the mains cable was even stuck out of the side of it
<AlanBell> if there is 960 going in, and 400 coming out then there is 560w of unaccounted for energy that can build up and go bang
<directhex> AlanBell, bingo
<Azelphur> xD
<Azelphur> hamitron: take it your not interested in it?
 * popey goes bang
<directhex> AlanBell, it kept climbing btw, past 960
<hamitron> Azelphur, not with blue lights
<popey> quietly and sleepily
<hamitron> :)
<Azelphur> hamitron: you could always pull them out :P
<hamitron> my 350W ebuyer psu is fine ty
<hamitron> ;)
<Azelphur> ok :p
<Azelphur> probably put it on fleabay and see what I can get for it lol
<hamitron> prob best bet
<hamitron> or maybe return to ebuyer?
<Azelphur> I don't think ebuyer will take it because it's ootb
<hamitron> ootb?
<directhex> hamitron, none of your systems are modern enough to put any 12V draw, and it's 12V where bad supplied go to hell
<Azelphur> out of the box
<hamitron> directhex, how dare you
<hamitron> ;/
<Azelphur> haha
<hamitron> I got a geforce gts 450 now
<Azelphur> :O
<hamitron> and I had a geforce 7800gtx before
<directhex> Azelphur, i personally won't spend less than about 50 quid on a psu. when a cheap one explodes, it takes out the motherboard and cpu.
<Azelphur> HAMITRON HAS SOME HARDWARE THAT WAS BUILT THIS DECADE
<Azelphur> WHAT IS THIS MADNESS.
<hamitron> hehe
<hamitron> and 8gb ram
<hamitron> ;)
<popey> for minecraft
<Azelphur> directhex: yea, I got shouted at for buying this one, so lesson learned I guess :D
<hamitron> yeh
<hamitron> hahah
<Azelphur> popey: I play minecraft on my i7 950 @ 3ghz with 12GB DDR3 and GTX 570 :D
<hamitron> all games were fine for ram... apart from minecraft
<hamitron> new cpu is for other games though :)
<popey> there are... other... games!?
<hamitron> hehe
<Azelphur> directhex: well my plan was to buy a corsair 430W for it, which is Â£41.
<hamitron> F1 2010 and Test Drive Unlimited 2 (see a trend here?)
 * AlanBell says pah to Azelphur's puny i7 950
<directhex> Azelphur, let me think. which gpu?
<Azelphur> directhex: 8800GT
<hamitron> i3 > i7
<hamitron> ;)
<directhex> Azelphur, wait, what? isn't that 4 years old?
<hamitron> half the cpu and not much more than half the heat?
<Azelphur> directhex: yea, I'm building my old PC parts into a PC and selling it to my cousin
<directhex> Azelphur, right, fine, fine. cpu?
<Azelphur> directhex: Q6600
<hamitron> weak
<Azelphur> ur weak :o
<hamitron> ;/
<speedxco1e> actually I got a q6600
<Azelphur> indeed, q6600 ain't weak it's a nice CPU :P
<speedxco1e> thing is my overclocked e5300 is as fast as it
<speedxco1e> with 2 cores =)
<Azelphur> :o
<hamitron> btw guys, how I see file extensions in winblows 7?
<Azelphur> popey: btw have you seen the map for my minecraft server? it may interest you
<hamitron> there is no bar at the top :/
<Azelphur> not sure if I showed you it before :x
<directhex> Azelphur, well, it'll fit into that
<directhex> hamitron, press alt
<speedxco1e> still q6600 is a fairly decent cpu for today.. if no gaming or hd video is being done
<hamitron> ty :D
<Azelphur> directhex: yea that's what I figured, I ran everything through a PSU calc with 100% TDP and it only came to 384W
<Azelphur> so 430 should be fine *shrug*
<speedxco1e> those 8800 can be hungry
<Azelphur> speedxco1e: wat, I was using that machine up until a couple months ago, it was fine for HD video
<Azelphur> and gaming too.
<directhex> Azelphur, my wife's shuttle has a 3ghz dualcore and an 8800gt, and that's only a 250W psu... close call though
<speedxco1e> Azelphur: I hope that 430 is a good brand. and a new psu (no old caps)
<Azelphur> directhex: haha :P
<Azelphur> yes 430 corsair brand new
<directhex> speedxco1e, the 8800gt was well regarded as a low-demand card. it's single slot ffs, few cards these days can do that
<hamitron> it is actually amusing looking at some of the psu on the market people get
<speedxco1e> directhex: you are correct. I mixed it up with the gts and gtx
<hamitron> way over speced
<directhex> hamitron, perfectly sensible tbh
<Azelphur> hamitron: you'll laugh at the one I got :D
 * speedxco1e has a 8800 gtx
<Azelphur> for my big box
<directhex> hamitron, a single gpu these days can be >300W
<directhex> hamitron, and you can do up to quad GPU in some arrangements
<hamitron> but I still think a lot of people over estimate what they need ;/
<hamitron> for a monster like that, yes
<Azelphur> hamitron: http://www.dabs.com/products/1200-watt-pro-series-ax1200-71HN.html?utm_source=google&utm_medium=product+search in my main PC :D
<directhex> hamitron, cheaper to build in some headroom, e.g. this psu is big enough for me to go crossfire/sli in the future
<directhex> Azelphur, with a 16A plug on it?
<Azelphur> *shrug*?
<Azelphur> this was my first build, I'm not amazingly knowledgeable yet :)
<hamitron> this new build here I wanted lowish heat, but some performance, so it was a ballance
<hamitron> :)
<directhex> oh yes, that's the other detail
<directhex> consider PSU efficiency
<directhex> they're not equally efficient under all loads
<directhex> if you want to use less power, you need peak efficiency
<speedxco1e> that ax 1200 is marvellous
<speedxco1e> it even handles crappy AC
<directhex> if your pc needs 400W, you don't want to be pulling 1000W from the wall to do it!
<speedxco1e> no hardcore ups is needed
<directhex> so a bigger PSU with "wasted" capacity can be more environmentally friendly & cheaper to run
<hamitron> my 650W psu is over speced, but I already had it :/
<speedxco1e> AC 90-264 V   <- 1337
<hamitron> but dual rail kinda makes it more complex
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> or quad
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> I better not jump for joy yet, not fully tested
<Azelphur> speedxco1e: indeed, it's a nice PSU :D
<Azelphur> and as I say, I have multiple graphics cards, 4 HDDs, gonna overclock and water cool soon
<directhex> i'd pay for modular
<Azelphur> it is modular
<directhex> it's lovely not having wasted cables
<hamitron> I wish i had gone modular :/
<hamitron> but they cost 110 quid at the time
<directhex> that's one reason my psus tend to be in the Â£80 range - they'd be a good Â£20 cheaper if not modular
<hamitron> I could of got a psu and only 2gb ram ;)
<directhex> i have 6 gig of ram
<directhex> manly men have ram divisible by 3
<Azelphur> directhex: 12GB *5
<hamitron> directhex, I wanted ITX form
<hamitron> ;/
<Azelphur> tri channel :3
<andylockran> hwody
<andylockran> :3
<hamitron> I'm happy with dual
<hamitron> gone from 400mhz ddr2 to 1333mhz ddr3
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> installing f1 2010 to see performance increase
#ubuntu-uk 2011-03-12
<hamitron> hmmm
<hamitron> reference intel cooler is working better than I expected
<brobostigon> good night everyone, sleep well.
<hamitron> laters o/
<brobostigon> good night hamitron
<aka47> quit
<hamitron> 25 fps to 64 fps
<hamitron> :)
<cprofitt> question concerning the meaning of a phrase in the UK region
<cprofitt> anyone able to help me out?
<directhex> maybe
<Azelphur> cprofitt: only if you ask :P
<directhex> bear in mind it's 2:30am in the uk region
<cprofitt> Azelphur: if someone said "the person is nagging me to death" would that have a positive or negative connotation in the UK
<Azelphur> negative
<cprofitt> yes, I know it is late... apologies for that
<Azelphur> it means ranting
<cprofitt> Azelphur: thanks... someone told me the opposite and I did not think they were being honest
<Azelphur> yea they arn't :P
<cprofitt> I did not think death would ever be considered a good thing
<Azelphur> cprofitt: like for example if you walked through the door and I started on how you hadn't done the dishes and you havn't taken the trash out and you havn't tidied your room .etc etc
<Azelphur> I would be nagging :P
<cprofitt> so it is meant the same way in the UK as it is in the states
<Azelphur> guess so :D
<cprofitt> exact quote: Nag to death in the UK means that they are keen and eager,
<cprofitt> always seeking further and additional work.
<directhex> um... no.
<cprofitt> I did not see that to be honest
<cprofitt> I appreciate the feedback
<directhex> generally, anything being done to death is bad ;)
<cprofitt> lol
<cprofitt> kind figured that
<directhex> other than a few, ahem, vigorous activities
<directhex> anyway, 3am means bed
<Azelphur> pfft, sleep is for the weak
<czajkowski> aloha
<MartijnVdS> hi
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jonathan Riddell] conf.kde.in Slides II - http://www.kdedevelopers.org/node/4398
<MooDoo> hello all
<MooDoo> AlanBell: checking stats again? ;)
<MooDoo> hello czajkowski Martiini
<czajkowski> MooDoo: hi
<MooDoo> czajkowski: how are you this fine day?
<czajkowski> grand up hours though
<MooDoo> czajkowski: ouch how come?  work?
<czajkowski> housemate getting sick since before 7
<MooDoo> czajkowski: `inconsiderate of them ;)
<czajkowski> self inflicted drinking
<MooDoo> czajkowski: slap them :)
<daubers> Morning
<daubers> !echo
<Laney> ello
<daubers> Hmmm.... I'm theoretically stuck in Oxford + surrounding are until 5..... and bored already
<MooDoo> daubers: you at work then ;)
<dutchie> yay, oxford
<dutchie> although i am leaving in ~2 hours
<daubers> MooDoo: No, missus has an exam so to be nice as she was fretting I offered to drive her in
<MooDoo> daubers: :)
<daubers> Suppose I could get another coffee and start moving my email over to gmail....
<MooDoo> daubers: gmail ftw!
<daubers> means I could also start moving away from evolution...
<MartijnVdS> good idea :)
<MooDoo> daubers: i made that change months ago :)
<MooDoo> i think it's worth it
<daubers> MooDoo: The second time an update overwrote my postfix conf without asking made me really really consider it
<MooDoo> daubers: ouch
<daubers> Also, tempted to beat people overly panicking about Fukushima with a big stick
<MartijnVdS> daubers: BUT IT'S NUCULAR
<daubers> MartijnVdS: So are some of the rocks in your garden!
<MooDoo> i could of punched and american over his comments about the japan incident yesterday
<MartijnVdS> daubers: Good thing I don't have a garden! :)
<daubers> MartijnVdS: Have you got a watch with a glow in the dark dial?
<popey> Morning everyone
<daubers> Morning popey
<MartijnVdS> daubers: You don't have to convince me, I'm just being annoying, sorry ;)
<MooDoo> morning popey
<AlanBell> morning all
<bigcalm> Ahoy from Scottyland
<MartijnVdS> \o bigcalm
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: was the music good? :)
<AlanBell> och aye the noo
<bigcalm> A good and interesting mix, thank you :)
<AlanBell> no idea what I just said there
<bigcalm> AlanBell: something exceedingly racist no doubt :P
<AlanBell> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scotticism
<bigcalm> Heavy rain and then heavy snow on our drive up last night
<bigcalm> Got to bed at 2am :S
<daubers> right, google apps setup
<daubers> just have to wait for dns rubbish to hit it's ttl now
 * daubers goes to find people to annoy for a couple of hours
<bigcalm> I do enjoy the USB teather that means I don't have to fork out for PremierInn's wifi :)
<graftrahula> hi! where i can find gnome_volume_control configuration file?
<MartijnVdS> graftrahula: what's the problem you're trying to solve? :)
<MartijnVdS> graftrahula: (because "manually poking at the g-v-c config file" usually isn't the right solution :))
<graftrahula> every time after reboot  only front speakers are working.in controls LFE surround and front are mute
<bigcalm> GAH
<bigcalm> Why am I looking at the error log I set up yesterday?
<bigcalm> This is the down side to having 'net access anywhere
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: Close your terminal windows. Go to the gf.
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: she's busy with lady things
<bigcalm> I've closed the terminal though
<MartijnVdS> daubers: http://i.imgur.com/Unyfz.jpg
<graftrahula> dead silence...
<popey> graftrahula: sounds like an alsa thing
<popey> bigcalm: lady things :)
<popey> I am not even going to speculate what that might be! :D
<graftrahula> popey: yep!
<bigcalm> popey: having a wash :P
<AlanBell> coz blokes don't do that!
<bigcalm> AlanBell: why would we?
<bigcalm> Trying to find a car park in Edinburgh at the moment
<bigcalm> Easier said than done
<czajkowski> Aloha
<dutchie> ooh, he's finally got hayley on irc
<dutchie> (i assume)
<popey> poor girl
<czajkowski> HaylesT: whooo
<czajkowski> :D
 * czajkowski frowns at popey 
<livingdaylight> czajkowski, Aloha
<czajkowski> livingdaylight: hi there hows you
<bigcalm> Maybe I'll get Hayley on here some day :)
<bigcalm> Hi peeps :)
<graftrahula> ÑÐ°Ð»Ð¾Ð¼
<AlanBell> peace to you to
<bigcalm> o
<bigcalm> Laptop speakers really are quite silly to be listening to music with
<MartijnVdS> they're quite silly period :)
<bigcalm> Might as well just have an 8ohm system beep speaker
<Martiini> HELP!  syslinux is giving me a headache .. Im unable to boot /dev/sdb2 on usb-stick ...someone .. please help me configure syslinux correctly
<bigcalm> Time to find a car park!
<bigcalm> Laters peeps :)
<danfish> hola
<livingdaylight> danfish, hola
<danfish> :) a lie in for once and good weather. All is good.
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<HazRPG> brobostigon: good morning squire ^^
<livingdaylight> danfish, you're not in Japan then?
<brobostigon> HazRPG: good morning, :)
<danfish> lo brobostigon
<brobostigon> good morning danfish :)
<HazRPG> \o mornin' everyone
<danfish> livingdaylight: heh - thankfully no
<livingdaylight> wonder who thought it was a good idea to build a nuclear reactor on a falt line? hrmph... :s
<brobostigon> no "click" it seems on bbc news, :(
<danfish> I'm not one to panic, but someone down the pub reckons that nuclear reactor is going to grow and grow and melt through to the core of the Earth and then explode and we'll all be dead ;)
<brobostigon> danfish: lol. :)
<danfish> My local is not known for it's nuclear physicists
<brobostigon> mine is alittle better, alot of clever and intelligant people go there.
<brobostigon> including some of the best chess players in the country.
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Dan Fish] Upstart and Python - http://www.ossmedicine.org/ubuntu/03/upstart-and-python/
<AlanBell> Martiini: what is up with the stick with syslinux on it then? you are trying to install ubuntu from USB or run it live?
<Martiini> I want to make syslinux boot opensuse on /dev/sdb2 on usb stick
<Martiini> with no luck this far
<AlanBell> ah, well I think you would be best off asking that question in #opensuse
<brobostigon> where are the ssh daemon logs?
<MooDoo> brobostigon: /var/log/auth.log?
<HazRPG> hmm, I thought SID 6581 was better than 8580... but I've noticed on this demo I currently have loaded that ReSID 8580 plays back a sound that isn't on the ReSID 6581 >_<
 * HazRPG very confused now
<HazRPG> sounds so much better under the 8580
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: 8 bit geekery :)
<brobostigon> MooDoo: thank you.
<MooDoo> brobostigon: you're welcome
<brobostigon> :)
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: heh yeah
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: is the c64 actually 8-bit music? Considering it has the least audio channels :S?
<HazRPG> I know each sound is produced with 8 bits of data
<HazRPG> ...
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: I assume it's 8 bit then :)
<HazRPG> despite its lack of channels?
<MartijnVdS> no, if you only have 8 bits to define output signal, it's 8-bit sound :)
<HazRPG> makes sense I guess :)
<HazRPG> VICE doesn't seem to like playing some of these demos all the time xD
<HazRPG> its like a 50/50 game
<HazRPG> "maybe I'll run it this time... maybe I won't!
<MartijnVdS> time for percussive maintenance
<MartijnVdS> (that worked back in those days)
<HazRPG> ?
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: whacking computer to make it work :)
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: "percussive maintenance"
<HazRPG> haha
<HazRPG> just like the old ... "give 'er a good blow" technique ;)
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: can't whack a emulator though dude ;)
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: not really, no..
<HazRPG> can do the "kill" command on it... and start again... guess that's sort of like whacking it
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: kill -0 :)
<HazRPG> argh! so annoying that the same sound can be emulated a million different ways >_<
<HazRPG> anyone know what totem uses to play sid files?
<hamitron> heh, so glad I have different password for nickserv to everything else
<hamitron> :/
<HazRPG> hamitron: what did you do :P?
<hamitron> used a different IRC client, and auto joined #ubuntu
<hamitron> and typed "id ....."
<HazRPG> :P
<hamitron> prob get banned for the rude password
<hamitron> haha
<HazRPG> :P
<HazRPG> I thought you had to type out identify out fully :/
<hamitron> :\
<livingdaylight> HI Mandrake
<HazRPG> really bugging me now
<HazRPG> just converted a sid file to wav using sidplay -w path/to/sid/file.sid
<HazRPG> but it sounds so different to how totem plays it :S
<brobostigon> big bang theory, ch4+1 :)
<HazRPG> and the totem way sounds WAYYYYY much cooler
<HazRPG> brobostigon: winner!
<HazRPG> ah fudge
<HazRPG> my TV won't pick it up :/
<HazRPG> they killed analogue
<brobostigon> HazRPG: my mum calls it,that geeky program,
<HazRPG> I completely forgot when I was trying to tune it the other day
<shauno> HazRPG: if 10 people play the same song, they'll play in 10 different ways.  and none are wrong :p
<HazRPG> brobostigon: hehe, my sister calls it the american IT crowd thing
<HazRPG> shauno: which is why I'm trying to record it as a .ogg/.mp3 :P
<brobostigon> HazRPG: she isnt far off, but also along way away.
<HazRPG> is there a way to stream out what totem plays into a file?
<HazRPG> brobostigon: she loves it though :P
<shauno> HazRPG: doesn't it use pulse?  couldn't you use the same instructions you were giving for recording mumble?
<brobostigon> HazRPG: it crowd or big bang?
<HazRPG> I think she's just too use to having me around that the geeky references are sort of rubbing off on her
<HazRPG> brobostigon: big bang theory
<brobostigon> HazRPG: yay :)
<HazRPG> not sure if she's seen IT crowd...
<brobostigon> HazRPG: thts good.
<HazRPG> there must be a way to grab out the totem stream ... right?
<brobostigon> HazRPG: loads of linux references allover IT crowd.
<brobostigon> :)
<HazRPG> brobostigon: I know :P
<brobostigon> :) sorry,
<HazRPG> I was actually thinking about watching it :P
<HazRPG> shauno: do you know if totem's output can be streamed out?
<livingdaylight> any seen the ZeitgeistMovingForward docu-film?
<brobostigon> big bang, is a good example, of the social inept-ness of some geeks.
<shauno> HazRPG: honestly no idea.  was just curious if pulseaudio could grab it
<HazRPG> shauno: heh I just tried totem file.sid > another_file
<HazRPG> and its blank :(
<HazRPG> guessing > only works for outputting text
<shauno> it shouldn't be only text, but in practice, an audio player isn't going to be using stdout unless it's told to
<shauno> I should imagine they default to ... an audio device :)
<HazRPG> I think its weird how sidplay2 seems to output as a 3:30 song
<HazRPG> it doesn't seem to ouput just 1 or 2 loops of it
<HazRPG> maybe I'm just using it wrong :S
<hamitron> bbl, gaming time
<hamitron> :)
<kaushal> hi
<kaushal> is there a way to enable logging for fcron periodical command scheduler ?
<Seeker`> anyobe on BT having problems accessing wikipedia?
<HazRPG> Seeker`: check here: isup.me
<Seeker`> i know eikipedia is up
<MartijnVdS> BT is censoring?
<Seeker`> my question is if anyone else on BT is having problems
<MartijnVdS> Seeker`: try traceroute?
<Seeker`> dont know, tracert is fine
<MartijnVdS> Seeker`: sounds like a problem at your end then
<HazRPG> Seeker`: my friend on voip says he can access wikipedia just fine and he's on BT
<Seeker`> gets to text.esams.wikimedia.org
<Seeker`> but browers / wget cant access it
<HazRPG> Seeker`: what you running on?
<Seeker`> on any computer on my network
<MartijnVdS> Seeker`: do you have tcpdump/wireshark installed?
<Seeker`> XP/Windows 7 qnd mythbuntu
<HazRPG> Seeker`: ah, well in that case, might sound daft... do a router restart :)
<MartijnVdS> wireshark is available for both Windows and Ubuntu :)
<HazRPG> indeed
<popey> what happens when you wget Seeker` ?
<Seeker`> HazRPG asked what i was running on :)
<Seeker`> "connection timed out"
<Seeker`> not just wikipedia either, my irssi shell does the same
<MartijnVdS> Seeker`: sounds like something is breaking new TCP connections
<MartijnVdS> i.e. the router
<Seeker`> MartijnVdS: other sites are fine though
<MartijnVdS> Maybe path-mtu discovery is broken
<MartijnVdS> (that happens with PPPoE sometimes)
<MartijnVdS> I'd reset the router and try again :)
<MartijnVdS> if that doesn't fix it.. more probing :)
<Seeker`> just power cycling
<MartijnVdS> well maybe wait a few seconds between off and on
<MartijnVdS> but yes
<Seeker`> yeah, 30 seonds
<Seeker`> waiting for homehub to boot now
<Seeker`> bah, BTs router is rubbish
<Seeker`> i need somethibg else with a VDSL modem connection
<MartijnVdS> Fritz!Box 7390 :)
<MartijnVdS> http://www.fritzbox.eu/en/products/FRITZBox_Fon_WLAN_7390/index.php
<MartijnVdS> it's the big brother of the 7340 I have (concurrent dual-band N instead of non-concurrent dual-band N)
<Seeker`> currently using an old DG834 for the wireless because the HomeHub keeps dropping it
<MartijnVdS> Seeker`: check that link :)
<Seeker`> bah, same problem I had with wikipedia now happening with fritzbox.eu
<MartijnVdS> did you enable "more firewalling"?
<MartijnVdS> (than usual)
<Seeker`> nope
<MartijnVdS> Seeker`: I'd start with tcpdump/wireshark then
<MartijnVdS> check what part isn't working
<Seeker`> haven't touched the router settings in weeks
<kaushal> is there a way to set alert if a particular user sucks Internet Bandwdith among 100 Users in a LAN Environment ?
<kaushal> I mean if he uses any p2p application like torrents
<kaushal> I am using shorewall firewall
<MartijnVdS> ipband - daemon for subnet bandwidth monitoring with reporting via email
<MartijnVdS> kaushal: ^ that what you need?
<kaushal> ok
<Seeker`> MartijnVdS: Looks like I'm getting "[TCP Previous Segement lost]
<Seeker`> then
<Seeker`> {TCP Out-of-Order]
<MartijnVdS> sounds like packet loss
<Seeker`> bit weird that it only happens on certain sites though?
<Seeker`> And after restarting my router, some that didn't work before do now
<MartijnVdS> Seeker`: try "mtr"
<MartijnVdS> it's a more advanced traceroute tool
<Seeker`> getting 0% packetloss on mtr www.fritzbox.eu
<MartijnVdS> ok
<MartijnVdS> next check :)
<MartijnVdS> Seeker`: try: ping -s 1500 some_host_that_doesnt_work
<MartijnVdS> Seeker`: then go down in steps ~100 until it does
<MartijnVdS> uh wait
<MartijnVdS> also add "-M do"
<Seeker`> From htpc (192.168.1.66) icmp_seq=1 Frag needed and DF set (mtu = 1500)
<MartijnVdS> (1464 is the max here)
<MartijnVdS> Seeker`: try 1464 :)
<Seeker`> don't get any output for lower stuff until I get down to -s 900
<MartijnVdS> Sounds like big packets are dropped or something
<MartijnVdS> do the sites work if you set:
<MartijnVdS> ip link set eth0 mtu 900
<MartijnVdS> (change eth0 to your network device)
<Seeker`> wtf
<Seeker`> just tried to access the site again without changing anything and it goes through now
<MartijnVdS> Maybe some engineer is working on the other end
<Seeker`> -_-
<Seeker`> just want a net connection that works
<Seeker`> I wonder if this is the same reason that MSN keeps on dropping
<MartijnVdS> could be
<MartijnVdS> the modem/router could also be broken
<MartijnVdS> or the wifi AP
<Seeker`> well, I'm on my wired PC atm
<HazRPG> shauno: I've just found an archive of a lot of chiptunes from the c64
<HazRPG> in mp3 format
<HazRPG> found the website via the sidplay2.ini file
<MartijnVdS> so you bought the c64 for nothing? :P
<HazRPG> seems a group called SOASC has archived as much as he possibly can with an automated process he made up
<HazRPG> so that the mp3 are made from the genuine output of a c64
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: heh, not quite ;)
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: I bought it to make my own chiptunes ;)
<HazRPG> http://ftp.df.lth.se/pub/media/soasc/soasc_mp3/
<HazRPG> their servers are going to have me soon xD
<shauno> HazRPG: if you'll excuse the pug; "old".  I thought that was linked from hvsc?
<shauno> er, *pun
<HazRPG> erm... possibly?
<HazRPG> I only found it, its news to me
<HazRPG> I've only ever used 8-bit people before this
<kaushal> MartijnVdS: Thanks
<kaushal> It worked
<kaushal> is there a way to block the specific IP if ipband reports offending LAN IP ?
<daubers> Afternoon
<czajkowski> oh well done to italy they beat France :D
<dutchie> czajkowski: was close!
<czajkowski> so I heard via twitter/irc
<danfish> too close. not sure why France didn't go for the drop goal when on Italy's 22
<dutchie> yeah
<danfish> only 168 hrs and 37 mins until England demolish the Irish ;)
<dutchie> danfish: haha
<danfish> dutchie: how are the dreaming spires?
<dutchie> i left them behind today
<dutchie> due to end of term
<danfish> End of term?!?!?!? It's only 12th March. When do you go back?
<dutchie> 1st of may
<danfish> yikes - 6 week break....danfish starts to grumble about students today...:)
<MartijnVdS> heh http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHLyrc-uoIk - "Adam Sweetman"
<MartijnVdS> (at 6 minutes in, ish)
<dutchie> danfish: 8 week terms is not particularly common...
<danfish> MartijnVdS: now that's a beard
<danfish> dutchie: true - oxbridge is a bit different....unless you were a post-grad
<MartijnVdS> danfish: exactly :) and he has an "undiagnosed medical condition" :P
<MartijnVdS> danfish: (working 24 hrs/day)
<danfish> that just makes me feel tired on his behalf ;)
<danfish> now that's an idea - what if you could sleep on someone else's behalf
<MartijnVdS> you'd get Chinese sleep farms
<MartijnVdS> where poor people would get rich sleeping :)
<danfish> haha
<seanh_> Hey, was wondering what is the easiest way to make a shared folder between two users on the same Ubuntu system?
<danfish> you'd try to get to sleep yourself and an advert would come up on the underside of your eyelid "your sleep has been subcontracted to Beijing Sleep INC, now wake up"
<MartijnVdS> seanh_: create a new group, add both users to it, create a folder that the group can write to
<MartijnVdS> seanh_: done :)
<seanh_> Ok, I'll try that
<seanh_> But will things written to that folder automatically get the right perms, so that they're shared with the group?
<MartijnVdS> seanh_: adding a user to a group only takes effect after that user logs out and back in again
<MartijnVdS> seanh_: they should, yes
<seanh_> Cool
<MartijnVdS> seanh_: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/FilePermissions
<seanh_> Thanks for the link
<seanh_> There's already a 'users' group with no members. Should I use that?
<MartijnVdS> you could
<imexil> popey, you seem to live under 2 names ;) See http://podcast.ubuntu-uk.org/presenter-biographies/
<seanh_> or maybe it makes more sense to make a specific group for each shared folder
<andylockran> howdy guys
<andylockran> how's things?
<seanh_> What's with the Public folder in my home dir by default then?
<popey> seanh_: its just a folder
<popey> like "Music"
<popey> you can put whatever you like in it
<seanh_> Is it supposed to be "public" somehow?
<popey> no
<seanh_> Well that's odd
<popey> what is?
<seanh_> Why have a folder called Public that is not?
<czajkowski> Peeka boo
<czajkowski> :D
<popey> you can share it if you like
<popey> why have a Music folder with no music in it
<popey> they're just default folders
<Neoti> hey all.
<popey> hullo
<Neoti> im looking for a huappage hvr usb satalite connector for my ubuntu 10.10 bax i intend to use it with VDR and XBMC on a Zotac Zbox any ideas or suggestions  ?
<popey> imexil: well spotted, that was only edited an hour or so ago
<Azelphur> any minecrafty people have any suggestions on http://forums.bukkit.org/threads/freeze-craftbukkit.6319/ ?
<imexil> popey: wow and I actually just visited the page the first time after the remake
<seanh_> ok
<seanh_> Gotta logout to test my group folders then
<popey> Azelphur: never heard of that
<shauno> only people I know actually using bukkit are the devs :/
<MartijnVdS> shauno: what's bukkit?
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: it's a minecraft server designed to run mods
<dutchie> MartijnVdS: http://bukkit.org/
<MartijnVdS> ah
<HazRPG> sorry, server side mods I should say
<HazRPG> iirc I think it's a replica of the official minecraft server
<czajkowski> danfish: you watching the games today
<Azelphur> popey: it's nice and fun, I assume it's somehow plugin related but it's corrupted the world
<Azelphur> and it takes about a week to replicate
<Azelphur> so trial by error debugging ain't gonna work :D
<dutchie> argh
<dutchie> never go to bed with a lava bucket
<Azelphur> o.O
<MartijnVdS> à² _à² 
<danfish> czajkowski: yup, but intermitently - son no 1 has an unidentified vomiting bug :(
<czajkowski> why does one need to identify it?
<danfish> hah - true
<danfish> come on Ireland!
<ging> are they winning?
<Pendulum> Wales are winning :)
<danfish> ging: there are coming second
<czajkowski> muppets took ROG off and brought on Sexton
<Pendulum> s/are/is
<danfish> s/there/they're
<czajkowski> COME ON!!!
<czajkowski> *mutters*
<danfish> han
<czajkowski> mutters/screams
<danfish> handling errors :(
 * popey chuckles at directhex's debian wiki edit
<czajkowski> such stupidity
* AlanBell changed the topic of #ubuntu-uk to: Welcome to #ubuntu-uk! http://ubuntu-uk.org | This channel is publicly archived: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Mailing List:  http://tinyurl.com/uukml | Support Guidelines -  http://tinyurl.com/uuksupport | Meeting Thursday March 17th 21:00 GMT in #ubuntu-uk-meeting  http://tinyurl.com/uukmeet | Quiz Night poll: http://doodle.com/eucwzx2qdiiiqs5p | Odd shaped balls \o/
<AlanBell> http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/1f3c9/index.htm
<AlanBell> no glyph to use yet
<directhex> popey, just did a TWID interview...
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: Unicode 6.0, the world's biggest clip art library :)
<ali1234> yet they still miss the ETS block glyphs
<MartijnVdS> ETS?
<MartijnVdS> ð©
<ali1234> see ETS 300 706 section 15.7
<directhex> ali1234, they have what matters: PILE OF POO and CAT FACE CRYING WITH TEARS OF JOY
<MartijnVdS> ah teletext
<MartijnVdS> directhex: OK, time to close down the internet. We have everything.
<ali1234> http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/1f4a9/index.htm
<ali1234> http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/1f639/index.htm
<ali1234> damn
<MartijnVdS> DIRECTIONALITY_UNDEFINED though :)
<AlanBell> http://placekitten.com/g/200/300
<czajkowski> gah!!!!
<MartijnVdS> czajkowski: wassup?
<czajkowski> Rugby
<Pendulum> AlanBell: cute
<HazRPG> ... probably going to get whacked in the face but I never understood sports :/
<HazRPG> or at least the fascination behind it
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: try doing them :)
 * MartijnVdS doesn't like watching sports
<MartijnVdS> but running = the bomb
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: I like *doing* sport, just not watching it
<HazRPG> its like "hurray, those guys are running around... while I sit here munching on this burger *on nom nom*"
<HazRPG> sports are fun though :)
 * HazRPG likes basketball, and badminton
<MartijnVdS> Having run my first 20km last week, I can say I'm a runner ;)
<HazRPG> oh and Frisbee!
<MartijnVdS> in 1:59:49 (1 hour 10 seconds after #1 :))
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: awesome, grats :D
<HazRPG> brobostigon: I'm watching IT crowd now :)
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: with l33t subtitles?
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: does it come with 1337 subs?
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: the DVD of season 1 comes with different "special" subs for each episode
<MartijnVdS> one l33t
<MartijnVdS> one base64
<MartijnVdS> and a few others
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: haha didn't notice that xD
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: I saw them on a boat in Amsterdam with some #lugradio regulars a few years back 8-)
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: :o!
<brobostigon> HazRPG: :)
<Pendulum> MartijnVdS: you were on that boat? I heard it was a good time :)
<MartijnVdS> Pendulum: oh it has a reputation? :)
<Pendulum> MartijnVdS: Xalior is my ex (from ages and ages ago) and one of my good mates now. Plus I've been to Amsterdam on holiday with him since
<MartijnVdS> Pendulum: ah!
 * bigcalm collapses
 * MartijnVdS gives bigcalm a strong drink to recover
 * bigcalm sips his tea
<Pendulum> bigcalm: how's the great north?
<bigcalm> We picked up a pint of milk from the local ASDA so it wouldn't be so horrid
<bigcalm> Pendulum: wet
<Pendulum> at least it's just wet?
<bigcalm> Pendulum: heavy rain and then snow during our drive up here last night. Got to bed at 2am
<Pendulum> *nods*
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: also, more snow approaching
<bigcalm> Aye, we're enjoying the change in scenery
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: woop
<MartijnVdS> need another spotify playlist? :)
<Pendulum> I have to admit that February and March are not 2 months I would think of to visit Edinburgh
<bigcalm> Haha
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: if you want to make another, sure. But we didn't finish the 1st one
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: oh.. so you haven't heard Rick Astley or Crazy Frog yet? :)
<bigcalm> Pendulum: quietish at work, so making the most of it
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: my GF is a mad 80s pop fan, and I quite like Astley as well
<bigcalm> We can do without the Crazy Frog
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: in that case.. I have lots of that on vinyl :)
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: I'll make a list
<bigcalm> Funky :)
<bigcalm> You have lots of Astley on vinyl?
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: no, just the one 12" of Never Gonna Give You Up
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: but loads of 80s pop and new wave
<bigcalm> Sweet
<bigcalm> Synth FTW!
<brobostigon> how do i change the branch a folder within bzr gets pushed to, from lp:~scraliontis/+junk/saab-hybrid too lp:~hydraulic-hybrid/+junk/saab-hybrid ?
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: bzr push --remember lp:~foo
<MartijnVdS> ?
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: thank you, let me try, :)
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: thank you, worked beautifully. :)
<MartijnVdS> np
<MartijnVdS> <-- store of random
<brobostigon> :)
<bigcalm> Lets see if minecraft works over a 3g connection
<dutchie> bigcalm: surely this was a great chance to try and break the addiction :P
<bigcalm> dutchie: I'm trying to not work...
<bigcalm> Need to reset. Toodle pip
<nperry_> Guys, looking to design a UI for my learning java project.
<nperry_> Any suggestions for something to create a wireframe type ui?
<nperry_> (Did ubuntu release what they use for ui proposals)
<dutchie> nperry_: https://code.launchpad.net/~sil/+junk/textmockuptool is interesting
<dutchie> with associated blog post http://www.kryogenix.org/days/2011/03/01/textmockuptool
<directhex> bloody dsl
<nperry_> thanks dutchie
<nperry_> Just what Im looking for
<Tommeh> Anyone from bytemark/35425 around?
<dutchie> don't thank me, thank aq
<popey> evening
<MartijnVdS> \o popeyman
<Pendulum> hiya popey
<kvarley> popey: I loved your tweet about the technology insults, didnt realised you could generate QR codes based on text. Been using it a fair bit :)
<popey> hah
<MartijnVdS> We have a QR with the lyrics to "Never Gonna Give You Up" in the office
<zleap> hi
<dutchie> MartijnVdS: haha
<MartijnVdS> dutchie: "QRick Roll"
<azelphur> hmm, what would make a server respond to ping but not SSH?
<zleap> ssh server not running
<nigelb> azelphur: firewall.
<azelphur> yea I havn't messed with either of those :P
<nigelb> or yeah, ssh server not running.
<zleap> ok
<azelphur> and the ssh server was running
<zleap> ok
<azelphur> it was a server with ~150 days uptime and then suddenly it goes off the grid :P
<azelphur> I'm thinking hardware failure
<zleap> you may have to make sure its port forwarding properly on port 22 if you are using it on port 22
<nigelb> okay, did the server like overload and kick you off ssh?
<azelphur> nigelb, it was just doing it's usual stuff, hosting my IRC server and game servers
<azelphur> and then it died :P
<nigelb> ok, I'll lean towards hardware too ;)
<azelphur> I'm thinking hardware failure
<azelphur> lol
<azelphur> it responds to ping which is weird
<azelphur> all the services disappeared, it wouldn't respond to ping, after a hard reboot it responds to ping but no SSH
<azelphur> seems weird that the hard drive would just go boom though
<nigelb> azelphur: this calls for http://www.bash.org/?5273
<nigelb> (sort of)
<azelphur> haha :D
<azelphur> I hope the hdd didn't go boom D:
<nigelb> anyone worked with amazon s3 here?
 * nigelb tries to figure out difference between bucket and object
<azelphur> lol the tech support at the datacenter says a hardware issue would prevent the server from booting altogether
 * azelphur thinks someone hasn't done much hardware engineering over the years
<popey> azelphur: do you have serial console access?
<azelphur> nope :(
<popey> doesnt sound like hardware failure to me
<popey> sounds more like it's rebooted and is sat at a fsck prompt
<azelphur> popey, maybe, but then why did it go down in the first place :)
<popey> servers crash sometimes
<azelphur> :o
<popey> kernel bug
<azelphur> Linux servers? never
<popey> could well be memory error
<popey> lies
<azelphur> :p
<popey> which triggered the reboot
<azelphur> *shrug*
<popey> but I'd certainly believe its sat there, on, waiting for someone to press something
<azelphur> haha
<MonsterKiller> lol
<popey> can they hook up a serial console?
<azelphur> they sent a tech to go look at it anyway so we'll soon find out
<MonsterKiller> /soon/
<MonsterKiller> lol
 * popey drums his fingers
<popey> we must know!
<azelphur> indeed! :P
<popey> where's it hosted?
<azelphur> rmh,a
<MonsterKiller> tech support soon == around 1-2 hours
<azelphur> oops.
<azelphur> reliablesite.net
<popey> lol
<popey> at rapidswitch we have to pay for console access :(
<MonsterKiller> lol
<azelphur> :(
<popey> 20 quid a pop for an hour or something
<popey> we've only needed it once
<MonsterKiller> o.O
<azelphur> what did you do? :O
<popey> upgraded debian
<azelphur> ah :)
<popey>  22:03:56 up 90 days, 17:55,  1 user,  load average: 0.17, 0.04, 0.01
<popey> since that happened
<azelphur> hehe, mine was up 150ish
<AlanBell> I feel an OLPC update coming on
<popey> what kind of storage is in an OLPC AlanBell ?
<popey> is it soldered on?
<AlanBell> 1GB of soldered on stuff
<AlanBell> jffs2 filesystem
<AlanBell> and an sd card slot
<azelphur> It appears that there are file system errors or corruption, FSK is running.
<azelphur> 10 internets for popey!
<popey> :)
<MonsterKiller> D:
<MonsterKiller> lol
<azelphur> hopefully fsck can fix it so I can grab the backups off it.
<MonsterKiller> :D
<azelphur> it's aliiiive
<MonsterKiller> :o
<MonsterKiller> win
<popey> yay
<azelphur> note to self: offsite backups.
<MonsterKiller> azelphur, ^
<MonsterKiller> :P
<popey> azelphur: i use rsnapshot on a box at home
<popey> it backs up popey.com, ubuntu-uk and all of lug.org.uk, remotely
<AlanBell> rdiffbackup ftw
<azelphur> cool
<azelphur> popey, does rsync work like version control? or does it not allow you to rollback
<popey> it keeps multiple versions
<azelphur> cool
<AlanBell> err, no
<popey> so i have hourly, daily, weekly, monthly backups
<AlanBell> rsync doesn't
<azelphur> ah :)
<AlanBell> rsnapshot does
<AlanBell> and rdiffbackup
<azelphur> fun, what do you usually back up with those, the entire filesystem?
<popey> yup
<AlanBell> rdiff-backup does rsync, but keeps the diffs
<azelphur> very big download for me :o
<popey> excluding /dev /proc etc
<AlanBell> and applies them backwards
<popey> initially, yes
<popey> but after that its incremental
<AlanBell> so you always have a pristine copy of today
<azelphur> cool
<AlanBell> and if you want yesterday it applies the increment to get there
<azelphur> lovely, just like version control
<azelphur> I like it :D
<popey> sounds odd
<daftykins> popey: is that to your drobo popey, or?
<popey> no
<popey> hp microserver
<popey> with 2x 2TB disks
<daftykins> ah, new gear? RAID 1?
<popey> yeah
<popey> super cheap server
<daftykins> also hi all ^_^
<daftykins> any pics?
<MonsterKiller> hey daftykins
<azelphur> where I might find the reason for it last shutting down btw? :P
<popey> http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/uk/en/sm/WF02a/15351-15351-4237916.html
<popey> azelphur: you might not
<popey> but dmesg
<popey> that link was for daftykins btw :)
<daftykins> ty popey :)
<daftykins> i've resurrected a Shuttle SN25P recently, nforce4 with an Athlon64 3500+, 1GB RAM
<daftykins> it had a dead gfx card, so i've popped in an nvidia GT 340
<daftykins> right this moment typing from a live flash drive of 10.04.1 with nvidia drivers installed :)
<daftykins> 1680x1050 20" LCD in portrait mode :D
<MonsterKiller> lol
<daftykins> said LCD has been sat there next to my two 24's for ages
<gord> sigh, would love to get another monitor but that will have to be next months expense :( have to get new nintendo this month
<daftykins> total, total overkill
<daftykins> gord: which? and why 'have to'? :D
<MonsterKiller> azelphur, irc server is alive!! ITS ALIIIIVE
<daftykins> wonder if this beast plays music
<azelphur> popey, anything in particular to grep for?
<daftykins> azelphur: what broke? :D
<popey> anything odd just before it went down
<gord> daftykins, 3ds. because i'm a slave to nintendo. my mario hat arrived today, nintendo sent it to me because i have bought sooo many nintendo games
<daftykins> gord: lol, i'm going to expose my naivety by asking... really? :)
<azelphur> popey dmesg only shows the current session
<azelphur> doesn't show anything before booting o.O
<popey> there's older ones in /var/log
<azelphur> ah
<popey> ls -ltrh /var/log
<popey> look for ones older than boot up time
<azelphur> nope, I see nothing :P
<azelphur> might have been a power outage.
<popey> well, if it was a hardware error, chances are you wont see anything
<azelphur> hehe
<azelphur> oh well, no harm done and it's a nice incentive to get rsnapshot going :P
<popey> heh
<popey> or rdiffbackup :)
<Azelphur_> indeed :)
<Azelphur_> gah, hate the +R bug on this network
<Azelphur_> +r rather
<Azelphur_> if you join a channel that's +r, you have to auth to speak or change your nick, but you can't auth without changing your nick :D
<popey> you could group your nicks
<Azelphur> there we go :)
<popey> you could group your nicks
<Azelphur> true I could register Azelphur_ and group it haha
<Azelphur> but that seems strange to me :D
<popey> yesh
<popey> hmm, feeling peckish
<daftykins> Athlon64's still feel quite pokey :)
<popey> i have some raw prawns, butter and garlic, this could be the start of a good meal between this episode of Railway Walks and the next
<daftykins> how's natty running by the way, anyone?
<daftykins> i think i'll be making a permanent Ubuntu installation on this Shuttle soon, so i've just to pick a version
<Azelphur> daftykins: seems ok to me, I'm running natty now
 * popey goes to make food
<Azelphur> one thing that bugs me is ctrl+shift+(c|v) doesn't seem to work in gnome-terminal any more
<Azelphur> have to right click paste o.O
<daftykins> shift+insert?
<popey> filed a bug?
<daftykins> er
<daftykins> ctrl+v has never worked in gnome-terminal for me
<Azelphur> shift+ins works and now ctrl+shift+v works too, guess it was fixed in an update that I didn't notice
<popey> he said crtl+shift+v
<Azelphur> daftykins: ctrl+shift+v is paste :P
<popey> not ctrl+v
<daftykins> oh sorry, on meds for my eyes right now
<daftykins> (no joke)
<Azelphur> hehe
<daftykins> hmm
<daftykins> if i open a gnome-term and ctrl+shift+v i don't get anything
<daftykins> but i do for shift+insert
<daftykins> (on 10.04.1)
<Azelphur> fun, it's always worked for me
<daftykins> am i being dense ^_^
<zleap> hi
<daftykins> hi zleap
<zleap> how are things
<daftykins> not bad ta ^_^ yourself?
<zleap> good
<zleap> i am putting to gether a cd wallet with useful cd in
<zleap> so 10.04 lts, 10.10, clonezilla, system rescue cd
<daftykins> neat plan
<popey> yay, i have some haggis!
<daftykins> i usually carry around my flash drive with all common windows updates, service packs, windows CDs, Ubuntu CDs, etc.
<daftykins> and a live ubuntu flash drive
<zleap> ah
<zleap> sounds good
<daftykins> where i'm teaching, the students are quite privileged to have USB boot capable Pentium 4 HP clients on the training network
<daftykins> so it's good for them :D
<zleap> nice
<hamitron> :)
<zleap> do you teach any LInux stuff
<daftykins> if only the syllabus contained any
<ging> daftykins: have you seen those virtual rom drives you can get?
<daftykins> i'm just helping out since November really, no experience of teaching before that
<daftykins> and more inclined not to get any, now :D
<daftykins> ging nope?
<zleap> i will put in a copy of ther open disc
<zleap> can i just download windows service packs
<ging> daftykins: saw 1 at lug meeting today, basicly it's a usb hard drive that you can fill with live cds and you can flick through them on a little lcd display and it servs them up as a virtual cdrom
<zleap> nice
<ging> http://www.i-odd.com/
<daftykins> :O
<daftykins> clever idea
<ging> they arn't that cheap though, because they are just a caddy you have to buy your own 2.5" hdd to go in them
<daftykins> mmm, only worth it for the properly dedicated support types methinks
<ging> i shall get 1 next time i get paid i think
<daftykins> there we go, in its' totally unjustified glory; http://i.imgur.com/ggRGP.jpg
<daftykins> Azelphur: look out ^ ;)
<daftykins> i'm a chasin'!
<Azelphur> haha :P
<Azelphur> wtf I'm only getting 330B/sec from my server via sshfs
<daftykins> what's normal?
<Azelphur> oh there it goes now it's speeding up, weird
<Azelphur> well baring in mind I'm not on a 300 baud modem
<Azelphur> yea we're off now, it's climbing rapidly past 100KB/sec, that'll do :D
<zleap> ok smoothwall done 32 / 64 bit versions
<daftykins> zleap: the free one? polar v3?
<zleap> i think its the free one (express)
<zleap> ver 3
<daftykins> i miss running a smoothwall
<AlanBell> yay, OLPC flashage in progress
<zleap> well i will make the cd's up and then they are ther if people locally need one at a lug meet
<daftykins> if i considered more of my income disposable i'd build a tiny little mATX router PC probably
<zleap> can just give them a copy or we may find it useful
<zleap> daftykins, yeah i could do with building a new pc
<daftykins> current one getting old?
<zleap> i have a duron 1600
<daftykins> ouch
<zleap> with geforce 4 graphics
<daftykins> no cash for cache eh ;)
<zleap> but it works fine
<zleap> a newer one would just have a decent graphics card,  unless I can swap the one in there for a better one
<daftykins> AGP constrained i take it?
<zleap> yeah
<daftykins> AlanBell: what's being changed from and to?
<daftykins> mmm i've seen nvidia 7600GTs i think as top-end for AGP
<zleap> but a newer one would be less likely to faily suddenly
<zleap> well i am also on legacy drivers, which could make me stuck on ubuntu 10.04 or 10.10
<daftykins> cor!
<daftykins> i don't think i'll upgrade for a while
<daftykins> maybe a graphics card if Portal 2 ever shows up :)
<daftykins> zomg it's out next month
<daftykins> :O
<zleap> :)
<AlanBell> daftykins: just a newer version of the fedora based standard build
<zleap> time to save up me thinks :)
<daftykins> hehe
<daftykins> i did look at the market recently, 200 pound nvidia geforce GTX 560 Ti 's seem to be the best at the moment
<daftykins> in the nvidia camp that is
<zleap> ouch
<zleap> i am sure some of the atom boards have a ion graphics + nvidia
<zleap> or something like that
<hamitron> there was a 7800 GS for agp
<hamitron> but not much better
<hamitron> :/
<zleap> that would probably work fine for me
<daftykins> zleap: yeah my HTPC is an Ion nettop
<zleap> i may see if I can ask if I can swap my graphics for something else building computers at a local youth project so hae lots of parts
<daftykins> neat :D
<zleap> i am sure they have newer, and the computers will be internet mainly so my geforce 4 would be fine
<zleap> ok they are running 9.04 atm
<hamitron> nothing wrong with a geforce 4
<hamitron> :)
<zleap> exactly
<hamitron> my 5th comp here has a 4800SE
<zleap> ah
<zleap> 5th I have 2 here,
<hamitron> love the VIVO
<daftykins> ah the strange edition
<zleap> lol
<daftykins> i remember the Ti 4200, 4400, 4600 era :)
<daftykins> in fact i even remember a colourful albatron ti4680 i had
<zleap> other computer currently runs some other OPerating system from er redmond
<daftykins> ;)
<hamitron> ;/
<zleap> which if the open disc was on cd I could use to test
<zleap> but its on dvd and said puter has a cd drive
<daftykins> flash drive time :)
<zleap> good idea
<zleap> duh
 * zleap should have thought of that,  i need to get a few more of those
<zleap> thing is i want different colours so they are easy to identify which is which
<daftykins> indeedy
<daftykins> i have a 16GB corsair flash voyager GT for super fast capacity for all the service packs, updates and utilities to carry around
<daftykins> then a silver flash survivor 8GB with ubuntu on
<daftykins> also by corsair
<daftykins> and a super cheap 4GB flash voyager mini :D
 * hamitron is too lazy to plug usb in
<daftykins> O_O
<hamitron> I am too cheap to buy a new case that has front ports
<AlanBell> OLPC upgraded and overclocked \o/
<hamitron> I got my new comp running
<hamitron> :)
<popey> hamitron: there is a metric boatload of sand in the brick house behind seans castle
<popey> http://popey.com/minecraft/gmap/?lat=0.524577&lng=0.438517&zoom=8
<hamitron> castle near start point?
<popey> ya
<popey> more than you could possibly want
<popey> take it all :)
<hamitron> wicked
<hamitron> need to get minecraft working first though
<hamitron> not even got vmware tools installed yet
<popey> i think i need to buy a copy for my kids
<hamitron> hehe
<popey> so we can play together
<popey> at the moment we're playing one at a time
<hamitron> on same server?
<AlanBell> I have installed it on the kids computer
<popey> yeah, maybe run a second instance at home just for us
<popey> if you logon twice on two computers with same user id, you get kicked :(
<hamitron> I thought I was gonna ahve to clean up my act :D
<popey> heh
<popey> nah, maybe my daughter might visit the popey server
<popey> i printed out a copy of the crafting page for them both
<popey> sam went to the den and pulled all the paper (printed) out of the printer and layed them out on the floor
<popey> unsorted
<popey> so i had to re-sort them :)
<hamitron> haha
<hamitron> the chores involved with fatherhood ;/
<popey> :)
<HazRPG> \o
<hamitron> that, or the stupidity of getting them into this game ;D
<popey> hey hamitron
<popey> er HazRPG
<HazRPG> popey: yeah?
<popey> hello
<HazRPG> howdy :)
<HazRPG> I feel a question coming on...
<HazRPG> although I could be wrong
 * daftykins switches on the anti-question device
<HazRPG> guess not :P
<daftykins> HazRPG: naw go on ;)
<HazRPG> daftykins: no I thought popey was going to ask me a question ^^
<popey> nope
 * HazRPG is curious as to the choice of words of "er"
<HazRPG> lol
<daftykins> oh :D
<HazRPG> popey: hmm, just read earlier comments - you could always set your sever up as "online = off"
<popey> eh?
<HazRPG> "online = off" is just to stop people using the same logon more than once (and to stop those without a proper account)
<HazRPG> sorry I mean "online = on"
<popey> oh i see
<HazRPG> not that I condone it of course, but you could get your kids logging in using an alt. version
<popey> nah
<HazRPG> ?
<HazRPG> oh, and online parameter is also the reason why when the minecraft site is down people can't login at all - its sort of an authenticity check
<hamitron> is 500fps on glxgears bad?
<daftykins> sounds pretty low
<hamitron> :/
<Cepheus> I'm getting 15000 so that is quite low
<hamitron> oh dear
<daftykins> i'd run it but mesa-utils apparently doesn't have an installation candidate :D
<hamitron> maybe should restart this virtual machine
<daftykins> oh that's performance in a VM?
<Cepheus> that might be your problem.
<hamitron> it isn't a problem tbh
<hamitron> just want the best I can get
<hamitron> :)
<Cepheus> VMs don't do HW accel, except for some very rough stuff in virtualbox that is buggy and not much faster
<hamitron> brb, restart
#ubuntu-uk 2011-03-13
<hamitron> hmmmm
<hamitron> virtual machines aren't going to work for mee
<Laney> seriously just spent an hour mining and then fell in the lava
<HazRPG> I may have to go to ultrachip in august!
<Azelphur> shauno: you about? :P
<HazRPG> night all
<HazRPG> see ya in the AM's some time :)
<shauno> morning
<MartijnVdS> \o
<popey> morning all
<jpds> popey: Morning.
<czajkowski> Aloha
<czajkowski> is there a class somewhere I can sign up to learn how to sleep, please :(
<nperry_> A pint of wine before bed normally goes well for me.
<MooDoo> hello all
<danfish> czajkowski: there certainly are such classes - CBT is supposed to help
<AlanBell> morning peeps
<MartijnVdS> \o
<danfish> morning Alans and all
<daubers> Morning
<MartijnVdS> daubster
 * daubers backs up his machine and drinks tea
<MartijnVdS> daubers: back it up? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jo1cyl0QbWo
 * danfish is doing much the same -backup to crashplan
<brobostigon> morning everyone.
<Jibadeeha> hi brobostigon
<brobostigon> hi Jibadeeha
<Jibadeeha> time to play on my spectrum emulator
<JoShields> moo.
<brobostigon> boo
<MooDoo> :)
 * brobostigon has real ginger beer, :)
<JoShields> nobody's applied for my old job then?
<brobostigon> no idea.
<brobostigon> JoShields: i did see a linux specialist in one of the oxford uni departentment the other day though.
<xr1> Where do you add new fonts too? Where is the fonts directory
<gord> xr1, /usr/share/fonts/truetype
<xr1> gord: so you would just put fonts in there and they automatically work?
<xr1> Ah yeah its working now thanks.
<JoShields> when you double-click on a font to view it, there's an install button iirc...
 * AlanBell plays with blender
<dutchie> i think i need something to work on in all the free time i have now term has finished
<dutchie> hmm, this screen is very grubby
<JoShields> dutchie: mono packaging! :p
<dutchie> only in return for cake and microsoft money :P
<gord> i'm starting to think i could develop a pretty accurate clock by measuring what part of the floor my cat is sleeping on, shes like a feline sun dial
 * hamitron bribes gord's cat over with "treats" to mess things up
<nigelb> AlanBell: is it easy to use?
<nigelb> AlanBell: I've been lost when I've tried
<nigelb> Isn't JoShields, directhex?
<JoShields> yes
<nigelb> sneaky :P
<AlanBell> I have managed to move a box and a cylinder about
<nigelb> ok, I didn't get that far.
<AlanBell> it seems to be easier than when I last tried
<ali1234> you have to learn teh keyboard shortcuts to use blender
<nigelb> I had big dreams when I installed it after watching Sintel's making ;)
<ali1234> the gui is largely useless
<AlanBell> I think I may now be sufficiently competent to start using a tutorial
<ali1234> everything good is in the menus
<AlanBell> there are some mouse gestures going on as well
<AlanBell> I think I know two of them
<ali1234> well, that's new
<AlanBell> watching this now http://www.blendercookie.com/getting-started-with-blender-navigation-and-interface/
<ali1234> oh, 2.5
<ali1234> never got the hang of the new interface
<hamitron> is unity mode any good in vmware?
<AlanBell> doubt it
<AlanBell> works in virtualbox 4
<hamitron> it is called unity in virtualbox?
<hamitron> try it suppose
<hamitron> just means a reboot, and I am lazy
<hamitron> ;)
<hamitron> :D
<hamitron> applications running from ubuntu, in a windows 7 desktop is so cool
<hamitron> until it broke
<hamitron> :/
<suprengr> #ubuntu
<brobostigon>  /join
<shauno> so quiet in here, I keep checking my dongle's still connected :/
<MooDoo> shauno: shuuush england are on telly ;)
<shauno> ahhh
<czajkowski> MooDoo: 1 week away mister!!!
<MooDoo> czajkowski: watching todays match, you'll pound us
<czajkowski>  meh not if we get a ref who's not able to you know.... ref!
<czajkowski> mupperty
<MooDoo> well yeah
<shauno> ah; I did wonder what england was up to, but didn't want to ask :)
<MooDoo> shauno: england vs scotland 9 all, crap ref :)
<MooDoo> oooops sorry anyone who's recording it :(
<shauno> co-worker's trying to explain exactly how the planets have to align for ireland to still win
<shauno> always amazed that people who could otherwise fail an IQ test seem oddly capable of juggling huge trees of conditions the moment there's a ball involved
<DJones> At the end of the day, the odds of any team winning a game are 50:50, they either will or they won't
<suprengr> At the end of the day, the odds of any team winning a game are 33.33%, they either will win, lose or draw [smug smile]
<DJones> suprengr: Good point
<suprengr> ;)
<DJones> Although that doesn't apply when golden point/penalties are part of the rules :)
<suprengr> unless you turn off the tv at 'full' timeand pretend
<DJones> lol
<Neoti> im getting a Samsung N150 Plus , and want to put ubuntu on there .. now do i have to use the netbook edition or can i use the desktop edition .. stupid Question i know ... ?
<penguin42> Neoti: You can use either
<Neoti> i thought so
<Neoti> but you never know :)
<Neoti> also how do you get the system stats like in this pic to appear on the desktop http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_1i7EX7a2ELY/TEZlZGCiUiI/AAAAAAAAAN4/P3s5MDhiNqk/s1600/Workspace+1_001.png
<shauno> I believe that's conky
<DJones> Looks like conky to me as well
<Neoti> i now also have on test a ubuntu 10.10 with all updates and XBMC with some adon like youtube and some apple trialers etc..  also modded a Linkys router and put ddwrt on to act as a repeater bridge for the living room and plugged the ubuntu box in to that ... all looks sweet... also i have the andriod remote app ... just to be ultra geeky ... lol .... i love it ...
<shauno> shouldn't have brought my laptop into work.  now I want to take this monitor home with me :(
<Neoti> LOL
<brobostigon> well done england,
<AlanBell> yay
<AlanBell> nice kicking from the Farnham lad at the end there
<brobostigon> in natty here, i am getting frequant ubuntu one update notifications, onfolders that havent even changed, very weird.
<brobostigon> hehe, wales beat ireland, :)
 * DJones waits for brobostigon to be poked, prodded or otherwise disciplined by czajkowski 
<brobostigon> :(
<czajkowski> unfairly!!!!
<czajkowski> ye wouldnt have won had the ref you know, REFFED!
<czajkowski> *mutters*
<brobostigon> czajkowski: ididnt watch said game,i amonly picking up onthe information late,without anydetails about said game.
<MooDoo> czajkowski: pah! poke! and LOOOOSERR! :)
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Laura Czajkowski] Rugby Ubuntu meet up - http://www.lczajkowski.com/2011/03/13/rugby-ubuntu-meet-up/
<czajkowski> brobostigon: I sugest watching before coming in here and saying ye beat us so :)
<czajkowski> MooDoo: bring it!!!
<MooDoo> czajkowski: hay ho lets go....hey ho lets go :)
<brobostigon> czajkowski: iwill watch it, it willbe on iplayer, :)
 * czajkowski hands brobostigon a space bar 
<pr0ph3t> hi all
<brobostigon> czajkowski: my spacebar is playing up. :(
<pr0ph3t> I really hope they will never stop support for the classic gnome desktop, as opposed to the unity desktop
<pr0ph3t> although it's looking really cool
 * suprengr kicks czajkowski's spacebar
<suprengr> ...did that help?
 * czajkowski frowns at suprengr 
<MooDoo> czajkowski: :p
 * daubers eats some cake
<Seeker`> om nom nom
<czajkowski> CAKE!!!
 * MooDoo sneaks up behind czajkowski to steal the cake
 * DJones watches as czajkowski drop kicks MooDoo straight between the posts from halfway
<MooDoo> DJones: pah! she's irish and like her team....RUBBISH ;)
 * MooDoo runs and ducks for cover
 * czajkowski glares at MooDoo 
<czajkowski> oi less of that mister or you and I shall have a falling out
<MooDoo> czajkowski: :) love you really x
<czajkowski> MooDoo: and you wont have Davmor2 to save you next week
<MooDoo> czajkowski: eeeeeeeeeeeek
 * Azelphur prods shauno
<shauno> eep
<Azelphur> yay your here :p
<Azelphur> can I pm you I want to bug you about minecraft map stuff
<shauno> *'re.  and sure.  just beware my shift finishes in 20 mins ;)
<Azelphur> :p
<danfish> yeah - Paddy's day angry birds special
<danfish> czajkowski: ^^^
<penguin42> danfish: All green birds?
<Azelphur> question re /home encryption on Ubuntu, I assume if you hack up a root shell and change the account password, you don't get a decrypted copy of /home :P
<czajkowski> danfish: heh
<shauno> the paddy's day special is just a GL filter to blur the whole thing out
<penguin42> Azelphur: That is my understanding, I think your account password is used to decrypt the key that's used to encrypt the data on /home, so changing the account password wouldn't help you get that key; to change the password on there I think you have to decrypt the key using the existing password and then reencrypt using the new one
<penguin42> Azelphur: Not that I've actually looked at the code
<Azelphur> fun :P
<tervo> how do you change runlevels in ubuntu
<SuperMatt> uhm, telinit may work
<MartijnVdS> Ubuntu doesn't have runlevels anymore
<MartijnVdS> since upstart
<MartijnVdS> I guess?
<tervo> yeah
<tervo> its all upstart scripts
<tervo> ugh
<MartijnVdS> tervo: upstart is really nice once you learn how to work it
<tervo> my X doesnt work
<tervo> so im trying to change runlevels and see
<MartijnVdS> that's not how it works in Ubuntu :)
<MartijnVdS> !fixvideo
<lubotu3> The X Window System is the part of your system that's responsible for graphical output. To restart your X, type Â« sudo /etc/init.d/?dm restart Â» in a console - To fix screen resolution or other X problems: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/X/Config/Resolution
<tervo> so i shouldnt have to modify xorg.conf?
<tervo> i stopped gdm and tried that but my monitor is out of range and keyboard doesnt work
<MartijnVdS> not unless you have a very strange combination of video card
<MartijnVdS> and monitor
<tervo> ok
<tervo> what is ?dm
<tervo> sudo /etc/init.d/?dm restart
<tervo> i cant even login to ubuntu now
<tervo> once i start ubntu, monitor goes out of range and keyboard fails
<DJones> tervo: ?dm refers to kdm/gdm etc depending on whether you're using kde or gnome as far as I'm aware
<brobostigon>  /etc/init.d/gdm restart   ,gdm is an example.
<popey> or xdm
<brobostigon> or aiccu*
<tervo> yeah but i cant even login to ubuntu now
<tervo> keybord stops working and monitor is out of range
<DJones> brobostigon: Bless you, hope your cold clears up soon :)
<brobostigon> DJones: hehe, :)
<tervo> any ideas
<tervo> grub's gone..
<tervo> any ideas?
<brobostigon> my first thought, is a bootup, cli only, without xorg trying to start,
<brobostigon> minute, recovery.
<tervo> the ubntu is on a usb
<tervo> so i just boot it from a usb
<tervo> but if i do  thee's no cli, nothing
<tervo> keyboard stops working
<brobostigon> cant you boot in inrecovery, from grub prompt.?
<tervo> grub is gone
<tervo> i put in the windows cd and grubwas gone
<brobostigon> yes, windows will have killedgrub, iwould try and reinstall grub onto it.
<brobostigon> !grub2
<lubotu3> GRUB2 is the default Ubuntu boot manager since 9.10 (Karmic). Lost GRUB after installing Windows? See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RestoreGrub - For more information and troubleshooting for GRUB2 please refer to https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Grub2
<brobostigon> brb,
<brobostigon> iwould try and restore grub first.
<tervo> ok
<tervo> let me do that
<brobostigon> and then bootinto reocvery, and then work out a xorg.conf with popey,
<tervo> where do i download just grub from
<brobostigon> tervo: use the instructions inthe page irefferred to above.
<ali1234> why doesn't ubuntu use hybrid isos?
<tervo> brobostigon: based on the link there
<tervo> it says download a live cd
<brobostigon> or use a liveusb,
<tervo> ok
<tervo> will try this in the morning thanks for the link
<tervo> will return later
<tervo> thanks
<brobostigon> yes, and tell it to instal grub to the device,referring tothe live usb you are using, as the grubinstall target.
<tervo> noted
<brobostigon> tervo: other people  mayhave other ideas though, but that is mine,
<tervo> i will restore grub in the morning
<tervo> tired messing with this now
<tervo> but gonna try it and see how it goes
<tervo> thanks
<brobostigon> youre welcome,
<shauno> heh, quote from another channel(/network) .. "i dont want to loose my wobbly windows".  I thought that was meant to be a demo.  feature?
<MartijnVdS> so? if people like it.. why remove it
<MartijnVdS> and it's nice/show-offy
<shauno> just never seen it referred to as a feature like that.  thought it was curious
<ali1234> when i use a system that doesn't have wobbly windows it feels old and clunky
<brobostigon> well, i am a beos man, always think,whats the point inhaving eye-candy, if it doesnt actually improve usability,
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: I want it to have the "throw ball" sound effect from Little Big Adventure
<ali1234> also, "the boop gas gf tha oth`p foop"
<ali1234> i think that's supposed to say "the boot was on the other foot"
<ali1234> anyone got a code snippet to print utf-8 characters?
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I5Lz2Ai9dmU&feature=player_detailpage#t=266s
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: THAT sound :)
<ali1234> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9M_Zh_Azz-4
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: exactly!
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: print UTF8? Easy :)
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: which language?
<ali1234> C
<MartijnVdS> ah
<MartijnVdS> no idea :)
<MartijnVdS> Python or Perl.. I can help
<ali1234> i know how to do it
<ali1234> what i don't know how to do is encode the unicode values to utf-8 strings
<MartijnVdS> http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:-c27zcwF3bMJ:swishewiki.org/sw/index.php/Unicode_C_Example+c+utf-8+examples&hl=en&client=ubuntu&gl=nl&strip=1
<ali1234> so %lc basically... hmm
<ali1234> i will try it
<ali1234> i can't actually use locale encoding because unicode doesn't officially contain the characters i need
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: Klingon? :)
<ali1234> btw, i'm sure i remember seeing a patch for compiz that generated wobbling sounds based on a string simulation of the window
<ali1234> maybe i imagined it
<ali1234> nope, %lc does not work here
<popey> evening ratfans
 * Azelphur waves
<brobostigon> evening popey
<Azelphur> I'm still trying to fix that minecraft map problem \o/
<czajkowski> popey: oi oi
<popey> czajkowski: fixed your sound?
<czajkowski> nope
<czajkowski> less than impressed
<popey> gimmie ssh access and I'll fix it ;)
<czajkowski> but if thats the only bug I find it's not bad
<popey> hehehe
<czajkowski> popey: ok
<popey> oh :)
<czajkowski> popey: still shouldnt have lost sound
<popey> yeah, it happens
<popey> i lost sound on my mac
<popey> tweaked and it works now
<popey> which machine is it?
<czajkowski> tosh
<Azelphur> anyone know how to pop the keys off a laptop keyboard?
<Azelphur> without breaking it :P
<popey> depends on the laptop
<dutchie> Azelphur: depends on the model
<czajkowski> hmmm
<Azelphur> popey: it's the XPS M1730 :)
<czajkowski> I used to be able to share desktop
<czajkowski> cant find the filling option in empathy
<Azelphur> my mums laptops power supply died so I want to loan her mine for a while, but the keyboard is AZERTY
<Azelphur> so I need to do a key shuffle
<Azelphur> (XPS M1730 with AZERTY: Â£500, XPS M1730 with QWERTY: Â£650, you do the math :P)
<popey> ITYM Maths.
<popey> or Mathematics.
<dutchie> yay, maths
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: can you provide us with a close-up picture (about 45 degree angle) of the keyboard?
<Azelphur> :P
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: ;)
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: yup
 * shauno wonders if belgian XPS taste as good as waffles
<MartijnVdS> shauno: don't you mean carrots?
<shauno> racking my mind, but I can't remember belgian carrots ever being used in context
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/Photos/March%202011/IMG_20110313_201613.jpg http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/Photos/March%202011/IMG_20110313_201529.jpg
<MartijnVdS> have you tried poking a scredriver under a key (only the rim!) and pulling up?
<MartijnVdS> (slowly!)
<MartijnVdS> to look what's underneath?
<Azelphur> that's pretty much what I did in the first photo?
<MartijnVdS> ah yes :)
<MartijnVdS> I'd just pull harder.. looks pretty standard
<MartijnVdS> (but it's your laptop/warranty/etc.)
<MartijnVdS> it might crack a little, that's the "scissor" detaching from the button
<Azelphur> \o/
<MartijnVdS> (press down on the button to re-attach)
<Azelphur> yup, seems to come up
<Azelphur> pretty straight forward, now to do it another billion times xD
<Azelphur> hmm, installed natty on my netbook, where's the cool unity side panel at?
<Azelphur> I got the normal gnome-panels at top/bottom, but no unity :(
<brobostigon> Azelphur: it maybe, it cant doopengl then, to run unity, ie compiz.
<Azelphur> ah yea, I have to install nvidia graphics drivers then :)
<ali1234> i thought there was a unity fallback version for non-accelerated graphics?
<MartijnVdS> yes, metacity.
<ali1234> netbooks should be able to run accelerated graphics anyway
<ali1234> mine does, and it's really old
<ali1234> unless it's gma500 or something
<HazRPG> Kita89: hi
<Kita89> hi
<HazRPG> Kita89: My guess would be, you have :)
<Kita89> :)
<HazRPG> Kita89: seems your on the right one then :)
<Kita89> its a good start huh? :)
<brobostigon> evening HazRPG :)
<HazRPG> Kita89: this is the ubuntu-uk community, they've always been nice to me... so I'm sure they'll give you the same treatment
<HazRPG> Kita89: indeed :)
<Kita89> :)
<HazRPG> brobostigon: hey dude :)
<brobostigon> HazRPG: :)
<MartijnVdS> \o
<HazRPG> hey MartijnVdS :)
<brobostigon> o/
<nperry> \o/ last outcasts tonight, anyone watching?
<HazRPG> Kita89: quick tip, not sure if it works on empathy - but if you start typing someone's name and then hit tab, it should auto complete the persons name
<Kita89> HazRPG: o it does :)
<HazRPG> Kita89: it also helps notify people that your talking to them
<HazRPG> nperry: last outcasts?
<Kita89> HazRPG:  awesome
<brobostigon> Kita89: the tab,autocomplete also works innormalterminal aswell. :)
<Kita89> brobostigon: in what now?
 * MartijnVdS gives brobostigon a new space bar
<MartijnVdS> Kita89: in a normal terminal window
<brobostigon> Kita89: in a normal terminal.
<HazRPG> brobostigon: the terminal, when you need to type in commands of directories/files, etc
 * brobostigon thnks MartijnVdS :)
<Kita89> brobostigon:  awesome :)
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: aswell? is that a relative of alot? :)
<brobostigon> HazRPG: yes, :)
<HazRPG> brobostigon: ah crumbs, was meant to put Kita89 :P
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: kinda.
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: you didn't know about terminal tab completion?!
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: of course I did!
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: was where I learned about it in the first place :P
<brobostigon> :)
<Cepheus> one of the worst things about cmd.exe is the stupid tab completion.
<HazRPG> Cepheus: heh, didn't think cmd did it!
<Kita89> Cepheus: but you dont have to press tab, so surely its all good, right?
<HazRPG> >_<
<HazRPG> Kita89: its just useful when you have lots that you need to type in - means your less likely to get CTS
<Cepheus> or RSI
<Kita89> HazRPG:  well im not on my comp enough to worry about CTS :P
<HazRPG> Cepheus: essentially the same thing isn't it :P?
<HazRPG> Kita89: you'd be surprised ;)
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: or DVT?
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: that's a new one on me, what's that?
<Kita89> MartijnVdS:  i hope not...
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: that's what you get when you don't walk around during a long flight (deep vein thrombosis)
<MartijnVdS> +more likely to
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: Oh, yeah I know that one :)
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: I travel to Egypt a lot, and my mum's a midwife/doctor... so she tells me about it a lot.
<MartijnVdS> time for some sleep.. work tomorrow ;)
 * AlanBell is now ranked #8 in #ubuntu-trivia
<HazRPG> AlanBell: wow, gratz dude :)
<AlanBell> czajkowski: there are better categories than that one!
<czajkowski> dear gods I hope so
<AlanBell> scifi or geography are good
<AlanBell> anyone else want to come and play?
<HazRPG> wow, only 15 have said when they can join the quiz :S
<AlanBell> yeah, looks like the 16th
<czajkowski> whoo more folks signed up to rugby meet up
<AlanBell> going to close the poll before they do the podcast recording
<HazRPG> hmm, for those of you who haven't voted just yet link is here: http://doodle.com/eucwzx2qdiiiqs5p
<HazRPG> brobostigon: aww, you can only make it on the 23th?
<HazRPG> brobostigon: :(
<brobostigon> HazRPG: looks like it, but i can try and move things around. there is some  flexibility.
<HazRPG> brobostigon: \o/
<shauno> I r disappoint. census wasn't even funny.
<brobostigon> HazRPG: :)
<HazRPG> shauno: with census?
<HazRPG> shauno: as in the UK census, for gathering info about the population?
<caulkz> anyone recommend a bluetooth adaptor?
<Baikonur> HazRPG: i think he ment the doodle quiz
<daubers> Evening
<shauno> HazRPG: minus the UK bit, aye
<HazRPG> shauno: fair enough :) - what's your beef with census?
<shauno> simple.  not entertaining enough :)
<HazRPG> lol
<HazRPG> I don't think its meant to be though... lol
<brobostigon> good night everyone, sleep well.
<HazRPG> daubers: evening dude
<lap> #android
<daubers> Anyone familiar with github??
<mgdm> daubers: mildly
<daubers> I've done a simple fix to a project I was using, github told me to fork the project to upload some changes, so I did, now how on earth do I send a request to the original project to say I've fixed it in this branch?
<mgdm> send a pull request
<daubers> How?
<daubers> It only offers me my branches in the blasted interface
<mgdm> Go to their one
<dutchie> daubers: is there not a big pull request button in the top right?
<daubers> Yes, but that offers me my branches
<dutchie> ah yes, to their branch
<daubers> mgdm: I can't see on on theirs
<daubers> blummin 'eck what a hassle
<mgdm> it's not that much, any time I've done it
#ubuntu-uk 2012-03-05
<gordonjcp> autotools are terrible though
<gordonjcp> layer upon layer of hideous misfeature
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Ubuntu Accomplishments Updates - http://www.jonobacon.org/2012/03/05/ubuntu-accomplishments-updates/
<knightwise> morning everyone
<AlanBell> TheOpenSourcerer: Happy Birthday!
<TheOpenSourcerer> Thank you AlanBell
<AlanBell> I would sing happy birthday, but there is a problem with that http://unhappybirthday.com/
<TheOpenSourcerer> lol
<TheOpenSourcerer> AlanBell: You have a cluster called the "Train Wreck" named after you: http://arstechnica.com/science/news/2012/03/galactic-pile-up-leaves-behind-mysterious-dark-matter-core.ars
<DJones> Morning all
<MooDoo> morning all
<selinuxium> Morning all  o/
<diplo> Morning all
<popey> morning all
<MooDoo> morning popey
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<selinuxium> just realised how long it must of been since I last logged into IRC!
<selinuxium> I have updated to precise..
<czajkowski> aloha
<selinuxium> hi czajkowski! how is you?
<czajkowski> selinuxium: oi oi :) good thnanks
<selinuxium> czajkowski, Nearly let the French win yesterday... Bet you where as fun to watch as the game!
<TheOpenSourcerer> Morning all.
<czajkowski> selinuxium: so close :/ gave away the ball too many times
<selinuxium> Morning TheOpenSourcerer
<bigcalm> Happy birthday, TheOpenSourcerer
<TheOpenSourcerer> Thanks bigcalm
<MooDoo> no one sing the song though, it's copyright infringement ;)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Ooops - Major fail on Github: http://chrisacky.posterous.com/github-you-have-let-us-all-down
<oimon> why would anyone sing happy birthday to someone who isn't friends/relatives?
<bigcalm> We're all friends in here
<czajkowski> oimon: yup lots of times in restaurnants
<oimon> as the irish theme pubs say, there are no strangers but just friends we haven't met yet..
<oimon> although if they took the cead mile failte literally, you would be there all night getting welcomes before having a drink
<oimon> my machine is running like a dog...and chromium wanted 1Gb RAM to have a facebook tab open: guess where i closed the fb tab: http://ubuntuone.com/54DdsAontZK4uQj5thnESe
<JamesTait> Happy Monday, folks! :D
<dwatkins> I walked into a pub in Ireland once carrying a guitar, and was therefore expected to play it. I doubt them implement that  particular rule in those theme pubs, oimon.
<gordonjcp> dwatkins: it's the same in Scotland
<gordonjcp> if you take it out of its case, you can't put it back without playing a tune
<dwatkins> gordonjcp: I wasn't aware of that, thanks for the warning (just moved to Edinbrugh)
<gordonjcp> dwatkins: ah cool, where in Edinburgh?
<dwatkins> Tollcross, the briht centre of the universe ;)
<gordonjcp> oh aye
<dwatkins> are you also in Edinburgh, gordonjcp?
<gordonjcp> no, I work in Glasgow but I live just outside
<diplo> Was using a gb of swap as well oimon !
<gordonjcp> the edlug bunch are a bit weird
<diplo> Was being hammered :/
<dwatkins> I've not met any of them yet, gordonjcp - I do know some retro gaming fans live here, and will be meeting up with them soon
<diplo> Anyone run Ubuntu as there web host ?
<diplo> I've done so for many years but only ever locally :)
<MooDoo> diplo: debian here so kinda similar
<diplo> Want to make sure I'm secure and set up correctly
<dwatkins> diplo: yeah, but only locally
<gordonjcp> they're not so bad now but they used to be a bit Christian Vegan Gender-Dysmorphic Differently-Abled Otherkin Group
<dwatkins> diplo: one thing I would strongly reccomend: denyhosts
<diplo> I can't get permissions correct using Nginx and permissions
<diplo> Installed Fail2ban already
<gordonjcp> diplo: I'm using Debian at the moment but I'm considering switching to Ubuntu Server
<diplo> Think denyhosts is pulled in with it
<dwatkins> diplo: ah good, it's definitely worth having in these days of wardialling
<diplo> I've used ubuntu server on 20+ boxes over the last few years, but never worrying about hosting on the web :)
<MooDoo> dwatkins: my deny.hosts file is getting huge thanks to deny hosts :D
<popey> alan@bishop:~$ wc -l /etc/hosts.deny
<popey> 5599 /etc/hosts.deny
<dwatkins> MooDoo: sadly I'm not surprised with all those script kiddies out there. It seems we had one on here the other day asking how to nmap the entire planet *rolls eyes*
<diplo> So my web stuff is in /srv/www/html/<domain>/
<diplo> Nginx uses www-data
<MooDoo> not at many as popey still - 992 /etc/hosts.deny
<diplo> How would you set permissions
<gordonjcp> fail2ban > denyhosts
<gordonjcp> wait, is it denyhosts?
<diplo> wc -l /etc/hosts.deny
<diplo> 19 /etc/hosts.deny
<diplo> lol, only been up 1 1/2 days with nothing set on it
<diplo> :P
<diplo> ah, that's the comments :D
<gordonjcp> pretty sure Arch ditched denyhosts in the stock install
<popey> mine's been up 4 years
<dwatkins> diplo: I've installed Windows XP and connected the machine to the internet to install a servicepack back when I was much more naive about security and had it infectied with a virus in less time than it took to browse to the update page
<popey> so over 1000 a year, 3 a day
<MooDoo> dwatkins: what had you been clicking on?  just installing a service pack wouldn't infect a machine
<gordonjcp> MooDoo: nothing, most likely
<dwatkins> MooDoo: no, connecting it to the internet without a firewall resulted in it being infected in minutes
<MooDoo> i don't believe you :D :p  [but if you insist :)]
<gordonjcp> MooDoo: <shrug>
<gordonjcp> MooDoo: ever heard of "port scanning"?
<MooDoo> yeah i suppose
<diplo> Defo happens MooDoo , when that virus that i can't remember name of spread the world
<diplo> Looking for open ports
<dwatkins> MooDoo: 'There is now a 50% chance of being infected by an internet worm in just 12 minutes of being online using an unprotected, unpatched Windows PC.' - http://www.sophos.com/en-us/press-office/press-releases/2005/07/pr_uk_midyearroundup2005.aspx
<diplo> Took down our company in minutes
<gordonjcp> diplo: Code Red
<diplo> nope, began with an S maybe
<diplo> Been to man years
<gordonjcp> I have seen unpatched Windows 2000 boxes be infected on dialup in minutes
<gordonjcp> Sasser
<diplo> that's it!
<popey> MooDoo: its well known that windows machines become compromised within minutes of being online if there is no NAT/firewall
<diplo> We weren't very security concious in those days
<diplo> We were after :D
 * MooDoo shuts up lol
<gordonjcp> yup
<gordonjcp> we had a dialup router in the office I used to work in
<diplo> I wasn't IT in those days either, was one of the users
<dwatkins> MooDoo: I couldn't believe it at the time, either - the machine just slowed down without having actually visited any dodgy websites etc.
<gordonjcp> the boss's son decided that the firewall was "getting in the way" and hooked his PC directly to the modem
<popey> hehe
<gordonjcp> Code Red-ed in two minutes
<dwatkins> oops
<gord> i like that firefox now things every word i type is misspelt, lots of pretty red squiggles
<dwatkins> What language are you typing in, gord?
<gord> english?
<dwatkins> ah ok, I often write e-mails in French and German, and it sometimes takes my mail client a minute to work this out.
<gord> yeah no this is just some dictionary bug in firefox or something ;)
<dwatkins> my nephew was fascinated when we got the old typewriter out, because it didn't underline his words in red when he spelled them incorrectly.
<dwatkins> I think we should get the BBC Micro out and have him sit there and wait for a game to load from tape.
<dwatkins> I did replace the shell on my Ubuntu machine with a command to run Beebem, perhaps that's a better way forward - "if you want internet access, write a TCP/IP stack for the 6502 in machine code!" ;)
<s-fox> Hello.
<MooDoo> morning s-fox
<s-fox> Hello MooDoo , how're you?
<MooDoo> s-fox: i'm ok thanks :D
<s-fox> Good
<s-fox> What you up to today then MooDoo ?
<MooDoo> s-fox: i'm at work at the moment, hopefully doing some poster/flyer work tomorrow
<dwatkins> mornin s-fox
<s-fox> Hello dwatkins , how are you today
<s-fox> ?
<dwatkins> I'm good thanks, how are you?
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<MooDoo> morning brobostigon how are you this fine day?
<brobostigon> MooDoo: not bad, various pains, but not bad, also didnt sleep properly. and you?
<MooDoo> brobostigon: not bad actually, bit of man flu, but ok lol
<brobostigon> MooDoo: :)
<dwatkins> I once said I had flu and was told in no uncertain terms by a friend that if I actually had flu I'd be at death's door :-/ I hope you're all better soon and it's just a bit of a cold, MooDoo
<gordonjcp> I had the flu and was told that if it really was the flu I'd be at death's door and it was in fact a cold
<gordonjcp> and then having snottered and sneezed for a couple of days and taken enough sudafed to kill an Israeli fighter pilot, it turned out that I did, in fact, have the flu
<MooDoo> dwatkins: man flu = little bit of the sniffles but feel like i'm dying ;)
<dwatkins> ah yes, 'tis a common phrase down our way, MooDoo ;)
<s-fox> I am good thank you dwatkins , poking around on mod website :)
<s-fox> Hello brobostigon :)
<dwatkins> s-fox: I daren't ask what kind of poking you're doing to their website
<brobostigon> hello s-fox :)
<s-fox> Trying to find what I am looking for dwatkins ;)
<dwatkins> isn't their purpose to make stuff difficult to find? ;)
<MartijnVdS> s-fox: â« But [you] still haven't found what you're looking for ?
<dwatkins> MartijnVdS: and I thought I'd be the only one to think of that song...
<s-fox>  /kick Martinp23 for being musical on a monday morning ;)
<MartijnVdS> poort Martinp23
<MartijnVdS> -t
<s-fox> oops, wrong marti ;)
<s-fox> haha
<MartijnVdS> Wow.. Asus barebone + 4G RAM + (disk I have lying around) + Sempron CPU = cheap
<MartijnVdS> VERY cheap
<dwatkins> cheaper than a Raspberry Pi, MartijnVdS? ;)
<oimon> diplo, yeah, i swapped off and swapped on again
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: no, but available immediately (replacement Granbuntu machine -- the current one is suffering from exploded caps)
<oimon> now compiz is eating all my cpu again
<MartijnVdS> oimon: notabug, wontfix :P
<oimon> wonder whether 12.04 beta is stable enough to upgrade my work pc to
<dwatkins> I'd be interested to see if I could fix a machine with exploded caps, but I suspect that it would be tricky (see iMac for reference) and that other components would probably end up being damaged as a result of the capacitor plague.
<gord> unless you are interested in it failing and reporting bugs, i don't recommend upgrading to betas ;)
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: I've repaired an Abit board once, long ago.
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: but I'm not trying again :)
<oimon> the only choice is to go back to 10.04
<dwatkins> I used to work with someone [supporting SLES and RH] who said all the time that Linux will remain in beta forever.
<oimon> 11.10 too sucky in terms of resources on a core2 duo
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: the current machine is 11 years old (but runs Unity2D just fine)
<diplo> oimon, I was debating the two same things, 10.04 or 12 getting kinda unbearable now
<dwatkins> MartijnVdS: nice :)
<diplo> +1
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: it was top of the line back then ;)
<dwatkins> I'm hoping my laptop will last as long, MartijnVdS.
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: I always hope my hardware lasts that long
<MartijnVdS> It seldom does though :(
<MartijnVdS> though I have a bunch of old WRT54GLs that come close.
<MartijnVdS> they're from '03-'04
<MartijnVdS> I just re-flashed them with bleeding-edge OpenWRT, and they're happy again :)
<dwatkins> MartijnVdS: I'm empted to tomato one of those
<dwatkins> *tempted
<MartijnVdS> I considered Tomato, but I already knew OpenWRT (I put WhiteRussian on them back in the day)
<dwatkins> I suspect I'd need to use an ADSL router whatever I did, as I'm with BT at the moment.
<dwatkins> I could double-NAT, but that's just messy
<MartijnVdS> double NAT is eww
<MartijnVdS> Time for V6 everywhere
<oimon> http://code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=98869
<oimon> this might be my problem
<jpds> MartijnVdS: It already is, with link-local.
<dwatkins> I should look into implementing IPv6
<oimon> and this http://code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=98200
<oimon> i can't be the only one with problems
<diplo> I have same issues oimon
<diplo> also youtube kills flashplayer quite often
<davmor2> morning all
<davmor2> czajkowski: PROD!!!!!
<dwatkins> oimon: I've had that a couple times, does the Chrome task manager say owt?
<davmor2> MooDoo: me owld mukka
<MooDoo> davmor2: alreeeeeet cheief
<oimon> dwatkins, not really, maybe i'm not looking on the right tab
<czajkowski> davmor2: GOOOD DAY TO YOU!
<davmor2> bigcalm, gord, mrevell all set for thursday
<bigcalm> Morning davmor2. I shall be there
<bigcalm> And Wednesday evening
<dwatkins> oimon: you have to enable the task manager by showing the hidden window, iirc
<mrevell> bigcalm, Most certainly.
<bigcalm> mrevell: coming on Wednesday evening?
<oimon> dwatkins, ah yes, i'll try that
<dwatkins> also, shift+esc, although that tends to still require unhiding on OS X: http://support.google.com/chrome/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=95672
 * gord books a train ticket five minutes later than he normally takes and gets it for half the price
<davmor2> gord: sounds about right
<oimon> tried to logout of twitter." 403 Forbidden: The server understood the request, but is refusing to fulfill it."
<gord> oimon, delete the cookies instead?
<mrevell> bigcalm, Probably not.
<mrevell> bigcalm, Weds evenings are pretty hard for me, as I have a work call.
<MartijnVdS> jpds: I have a /48 from my ISP.. but it's the only ISP in the country (at the moment)
<MartijnVdS> jpds: 2 others will be rolling out "this year"
<davmor2> My mom just emailed me this and put a smile on my face so I thought I'd share http://paste.ubuntu.com/869690/
 * popey wonders if gord can reproduce bug 947047
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 947047 in cheese (Ubuntu) "Effects turn webcam image purple" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/947047
<gord> popey, yeah, happens across multiple webcams, been happening for ages
<gord> popey, changing webcam resolution or closing cheese and opening again usually fixes, but removing the effects will turn you purple again
<davmor2> popey: bigcalm can
<davmor2> popey: I blame gord though it's bound to be his fault
<gord> its a shame, cheese is a nice app
<gord> rather puzzling why we don't ask people to hook up their facebook/google/twitter accounts in the installer/first run, i wonder how many people even realise that facebook instant messaging is built into ubuntu
<dwatkins> I acknowledge that there are good things about facebook integration, but I tend to avoid it like botchilism ;)
<gord> this is the good type of facebook integration :) the kind that means i don't need to log into the website and can just use the IM application on my OS :)
<dwatkins> I see what you mean, I tend to log-in to facebook about once a day, and I use its messaging feature like e-mail, but I guess there are people who chat on there like I use IRC and Jabber :)
<daubers> Morning
<davmor2> gord: there is a slide for it
<gord> davmor2, instead of having that slide we should have a "hey while your waiting, why not hook up your online accounts?" section that lets people do that ;)
<gord> then start gwibber/empathy on first start, whack them in the launcher - people will get the idea once they start getting messages/tweets
<davmor2> gord: can't do that the app would need to install into a home directory initially,  anyway talk to ev, cjwatson and kenvandine about all that
<gord> can't isn't a good word to use ;)
<davmor2> gord: why does can't mean you have to prove me wrong, in which case you could just post the initial draft to ev and ken and let them run with it :P
<directhex> gord, facebook integration is nontrivial for first-run, because most people log into facebook via email not username, and FB chat only works if you've logged in once via the web via username
<gord> directhex, empathy has a little thing that lets you do that from within empathy iirc
<gord> basically a small browser pane, same for anything that requires OAUTH
<davmor2> gord: empathy does for chat and logs in via username not email,  for gwibber you login via email not username and the web pane appears again for account access
<directhex> davmor2, any facebook auth box asking for email address will accept username instead
<AlanBell> HUD updates arrive, it still doesn't like people who can type :(
<Pendulum> I assume you mean can't type?
<AlanBell> no, it is fine if you can't type
<Pendulum> ah
<AlanBell> if you spell words correctly it takes them away from you
<daubers> directhex: Is there a less costly alternative of mono for android than monodroid?
<AlanBell> Bug #937020 but it has probably been reported elsewhere too
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 937020 in indicator-appmenu (Ubuntu) "hud searches should strip() the search string" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/937020
<AlanBell> and still silent to orca :(
<gord> guys, there is unicode for a happy cat with love heart eyes ð» - i find this confusing
<directhex> gord, japanese people do a LOT of smileys, and the japanese mobile phone manufacturers wanted to standardize their smileys across brands - so they went to the Unicode consortium
<directhex> daubers, i think koushik dutta did his own port, but much of monodroid's sugar is in the integration of tools, e.g. the linker.
<daubers> directhex: Okies. Might put that to one side for now then. Thanks :)
<popey> AlanBell: how do I stop orca appearing on my screensaver ?
<popey> I once started orca now it always appears
<ali1234> you mean the osk right
<ali1234> not orca
<popey> ya
<popey> oh, yes
<ali1234> i have the same thing
<ali1234> dunno how to fix it
<ali1234> don't see a problem really :)
<popey> it's fugly
<popey> âº
<ali1234> well except fo that
<gord> you have a screensaver?
<ali1234> onboard, and the unlock screen, not actually the screensaver
<ali1234> popey: http://askubuntu.com/questions/84050/how-do-i-disable-the-on-screen-keyboard-in-the-unlock-screen
<popey> excellent, thanks!
 * popey rates that answer up
<ali1234> it has nicer themes btw :)
<popey> lies
<ali1234> blackboard and droid are ok
<ali1234> the model m theme is nicer than i expected it to be
<ali1234> it doesn't look anything like a model m
<AlanBell> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:ModelM.jpg it was modeled on that
<AlanBell> I picked colours off that photo, but someone else changed them a bit
<ali1234> yeah colours are right i suppos
<popey> am i the only one for whom youtube full screen doesn't suppress lock screen?
<ali1234> i set timeout to 30 minutes
<AlanBell> I found out how to make youtube actually go full screen yesterday
<ali1234> possibly 1 hour
<AlanBell> you pop out the viewer, then F11 to make that go full screen
<AlanBell> then the actual image is full screen rather than having huge black borders all the way round
<ali1234> wrong
<ali1234> you still have firefox chrome
<AlanBell> no, that goes away
<AlanBell> I get moving video all the way to every edge
<ali1234> how do you pop out the player?
<popey> youtube goes full screen for me by just clikcing the "full screen" icon in the video
<AlanBell> right click on it
<ali1234> ah that's new... nice
<AlanBell> really popey? I will try to do a screenshot later of what I see, it is rubbish
<ali1234> are you using two monitors?
<popey> no
<popey> i have no borders or anything
<ali1234> not you popey :)
<AlanBell> I am using two monitors
<ali1234> yeah
<AlanBell> http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/Screenshot%20at%202012-03-05%2014:15:51.png
<ali1234> it's a known bug in flash which adobe refuses to fix
<AlanBell> that is what I have always had
<ali1234> i made a fix for that last year: http://al.robotfuzz.com/content/workaround-fullscreen-flash-linux-multiheaded-desktops
<TheOpenSourcerer> popey: can I dm you for a mo?
<popey> anytime
<ali1234> pop out works better than flash's own fullscreen mode anyway
<ali1234> it doesn't close if you click in another window for one thing
<ali1234> and it works properly on both monitors
<AlanBell> I had no idea that youtube fullscreen worked for anyone ever!
<ali1234> yeah your problem is a problem with how flash calculates what "fullscreen" means
<ali1234> i explained it on that page, exactly what causes the bug
<AlanBell> I read your article, that makes sense now
<ali1234> it's been reported to adobe multiple times, they just lose it "can't reproduce"
<TheOpenSourcerer> I had one of these: https://twitter.com/#!/O2/status/176673345318830080/photo/1
<ali1234> i've never seen that pop out option before, is it new? or youtube only?
<popey> TheOpenSourcerer: i had one too âº
 * daubers had a 48k+
<daubers> this one http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:ZX_Spectrum%2B.jpg
<popey> that link no longer works!
<popey> stupid twitter
<popey> also, it wasn't 21 years ago.
<TheOpenSourcerer> I had a Spectrum too.
<popey> it was 30 years
<MartijnVdS> 0x21?
<popey> http://popey.com/blog/2011/03/05/thirty-years-on/
<MartijnVdS> hex 21 = 33, close enough ;)
<TheOpenSourcerer> This was my first machine: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compukit_UK101
<gordonjcp> yay
<gordonjcp> yukky 101
<popey> Did you see Liam put his UK101 on ebay recently?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Gosh.
<TheOpenSourcerer> No
<popey> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/270918417815
<TheOpenSourcerer> Wow that kept its value :-)
 * popey ponders building a vt101 from parts
<popey> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vintage-DEC-Digital-VT101-AB-Main-Board-Working-/250940797633?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a6d3cb2c1
<popey> âº
<MartijnVdS> popey: you still want one then?
<popey> yes
<TheOpenSourcerer> What will you do with a VT100
<gordonjcp> oh, Liam Proven, I used to know him from the classiccmp mailing list
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: play nethack of course
<MartijnVdS> or Zork
<popey> i knew him from Cix back in uhm.. 1995 I think
<gordonjcp> popey: cool, does he live down about where you are?
<popey> gordonjcp: he's in London iirc
<gordonjcp> popey: have you ever encountered Tony Duell on any of the mailing lists?
<popey> no
<AlanBell> anyone want an high level important job for no money? http://bitly.com/xN81Zv
<MartijnVdS> lolgovernment
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: "Employment terms: not fair and open"
<DJones> Heh, I like that job provides clarity on compliance requirements against a suite of mandatory open standards, but employment terms aren't fair & open
<DJones> On the plus side, you don't need a CRB check for it
<popey> Employment Terms: Post Type  Temporary (Not fair and open)
<AlanBell> it is one of those things that just will get stuffed with microsoft partners :(
<AlanBell> it would be good for someone from Canonical to apply
<AlanBell> and the form is a .doc
<davmor2> czajkowski: so you gonna come over to millbank at somepoint tomorrow so I can pick on you?
<czajkowski> davmor2: might do
<czajkowski> will I get any work done :)
<davmor2> czajkowski: I'm going to be in and out of meeting most of the day so I should think so
<czajkowski> okie dokie
<czajkowski> davmor2: will be in so tomrrow
<davmor2> czajkowski: do you want to try that line again in English ;)
<bigcalm> mrevell: I think you were right, the DVDs will be with you on Thursday
<mrevell> bigcalm, Oh lovely. Thanks!
<czajkowski> davmor2: will be in millbank tomorrow
<davmor2> czajkowski: ah okay :)
<bigcalm> davmor2: so far, only 10 of us will be at the LUG meeting. Does anybody turn up without replying to the list request?
 * bigcalm looks forward to a good steak and chips. Oh, and the company is ok ;)
<davmor2> bigcalm: yeap and then there are those at work with no personal email so will be added at a latter date
<bigcalm> You mean there are people who don't have their email thrust in their face 24/7?
<bigcalm> I've tried disabling work emails from syncing to my phone out of office hours, but I'd always forget to re-enable it the next day
 * bigcalm nips out to mow the lawn \o/
<gord> mowing the lawn? its nearly night time
<AlanBell> that is probably an euphamism for something
<bigcalm> Sun is still up here, getting it done while I can
<bigcalm> Recycling collection is tomorrow (includes garden waste)
<bigcalm> AlanBell: ... :P
<davmor2> bigcalm: you waste you garden
<bigcalm> davmor2: I do what?
<davmor2> bigcalm: You waste your garden?
<bigcalm> davmor2: do you want my grass cuttings?
 * davmor2 has this image of bigcalm wrapping his entire garden up in a green bag and handing it to the bin men in the morning
<bigcalm> davmor2: you are deranged, sir
<davmor2> bigcalm: You just figured this out?
<bigcalm> davmor2: yeah, thought you quite down to earth until now :P
<davmor2> bigcalm: hahahahaha
<brobostigon> dirk gently, bbc4, 9pm, :)
<bigcalm> brobostigon: already set to record :)
<brobostigon> bigcalm: :)
<gord> davmor2, you don't have a garden waste bin collection thing round your area?
<davmor2> gord: I'm in a 3rd-4th floor maisonette what garden?
<gord> davmor2, window garden?
<popey> http://api.ning.com/files/TnyFdD9AJe*K53vpQ6QPEdVaKAlNFaNWPwdKV5ChcmdHRFH8XmtYUX8sGBfLk2mCypoluCHULpMXbH6pV*WgdygWvGa1GP4M/stephenwildish.jpg  like that
<gord> there is a really cool TED talk about some people who design open source window gardens
<davmor2> gord: not likely Plus we just have the one bin chute for everything, bah paper,tins and glass we have separate bins down stairs for those
<bigcalm> popey: that makes me want to make all 4 now
<bigcalm> Well, maybe not the pasta, I'll just buy that :)
<bigcalm> 12.04 is out next month, do we know which day?
<ali1234> my guess is the last working day?
<bigcalm> Not quite ready I take it?
<AlanBell> 26th
<popey> its always thursday
<bigcalm> Aha. I wonder if the Samsung Galaxy S3 will be out before then
<AlanBell> unless it isn't
<ali1234> this just plopped into my inbox: http://www.visionmobile.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/infographics/milliondollar/100MillionClub_2011.jpg
<popey> Go symbian!
<popey> well, S40
 * popey hugs his old 6680
 * TheOpenSourcerer has a house full of curry-type food :-D
 * dwatkins has curry preparing itself
<davmor2> TheOpenSourcerer: You mean you have a curry full of household stuff
<ali1234> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2lWAk6tQ9EE
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Tony] A Wonderful Woodland Wedding - http://tonywhitmore.co.uk/blog/2012/03/05/a-wonderful-woodland-wedding/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=a-wonderful-woodland-wedding
<davmor2> ali1234: you have too much time on your hands
<ali1234> what makes you say that?
<davmor2> ali1234: finding weird and wonderful youtube clips like that :D
<ali1234> i am subbed to that guy, he's genius
<davmor2> ali1234: ps funny as hell by the way
<diplo-> evening all
<AlanBell> !ping[1~
<AlanBell> !ping
<lubotu3> another contentless ping... sigh...
<davmor2> Im in olde ye London Town tomorrow to annoy czajkowski erm work with the qa sprint to try and unify the tools we use erm annoy czajkowski
<davmor2> night all
<madpup> can i ask a question? ( not this question )
<dwatkins> !ask
<lubotu3> Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line and in the channel, so that others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-) See also !patience
<madpup> opps, sorry.
<dwatkins> no worries, just saying you don't need to ask madpup :)
<madpup> Ok, ive got ubuntu 11.10 64bit installed and everything works except sound, the sound glitchs and fades in and out quickly?
<dwatkins> What kind of sound hardware do you have, madpup?
<madpup> errr brb lspci
<madpup>  SBx00 Azalia (Intel HDA) (rev 40)
<MartijnVdS> madpup: check /proc/asound/cards
<OmNomDePlume> madpup: can I ask you a question?
<madpup> sure
<madpup> HDA-Intel - HDA ATI SB
<madpup> HDA-Intel - HDA NVidia
<MartijnVdS> So.. two sound cards -- one on-board and one on the HDMI output?
<MartijnVdS> That shouldn't confuse the software, but it might
<madpup> yep one on the mobo and one on the nvidia 560ti, ive disabled the Nvidia one
<dwatkins> How did you disable it, out of curiosity, madpup?
<madpup> went to hardware tab in prefs->sound->hardware  profile off
<madpup> in outputs the 'conecter' drop down boxs flickers between 'analog output' and 'headphone output' it happening and the the same speed and the sound glitches
<madpup> should i just yank out the front panel audio connection lead off my mobo?
<madpup> ok im going to yank my front panel cable off my mobo untill i canfix this
<madpup> thanks all, brb, tosee if this helps
<madpup> ok that fixed the sound issues, nowto fix the boot errors
<madpup> thanks for everyones help
<ali1234> it's the headphone detection glitch
<ali1234> large number of HDA motherboards confuse headphone connector and frontpanel connector
<ali1234> so if you have connected the frontpanel output, it thinks headphones are connected and mutes the line out
<ali1234> the fix is to run alsamixer and turn on "independent hp"
<bigcalm> czajkowski: ping
<czajkowski> bigcalm: fixed
<bigcalm> czajkowski: :)
<bigcalm> I'd done a screen shot for you 'n all!
<brobostigon> gently driving an austim princess. :) lol
<brobostigon> austin*
<bigcalm> brobostigon: that sounds like a car from the 70s
<brobostigon> bigcalm: it is.
 * gordonjcp had one, until it got stolen
<bigcalm> :o
<bigcalm> Oh, I got confused
 * bigcalm goes back to sleep
<jacobw> sleep is good
<ali1234> does anyone remember the name of that browser plugin from years ago
<zleap> ali1234, what did it do ?
<ali1234> where you go to a webpage, and if other people with that plugin are on the same page, you can see their little character walking around on the page
<ali1234> and chat with them
<ali1234> from the 90s
<ali1234> pre dotcom bubble
<ali1234> you may have had to download a whole browser to use it in fact
<ali1234> it was called something like "web buddies" or something
<ali1234> and the characters were like little blue furry gremlin things
<zleap> not sure, i had a plugin for kids to make a friendly browser with chat etc
<jacobw> i think so
<jacobw> i'm remembering the early 2000s though, not the 90s
<ali1234> it was completely public so you didn't have to add people
<ali1234> could have been early 2000s i guess
<ali1234> probably was still going for a few years :)
<zleap> ali1234, not kidzuie - browser plugin
<ali1234> it wasn't aimed at kids
<zleap> ok
<ali1234> rocket on is a similar idea
<ali1234> but they only started a couple of years ago
<ali1234> this was back when everyone was using netscape
<zleap> ah
<zleap> so early / mid 90's
<zleap> i remember those days
<ali1234> mid - late 90s
<mrevell> bigcalm, Hey, still around?
<bigcalm> mrevell: for some reason, yes I am :)
<mrevell> heh
 * popey tickles mrevell 
<mrevell> hey popey
<popey> hullo
<mrevell> bigcalm, How long did it take you to go from normal phone, through rooting, to having CM all nicely sorted?
<bigcalm> Not that long. I did it some time ago so don't remember much. I do recall having to follow a howto. And I think things are easier these days
<bigcalm> Have you started, thinking about it or bricked your phone?
<bigcalm> Which Desire handset do you have?
<bigcalm> GSM, CDMA, HD, S?
<mrevell> bigcalm, Standard ole GSM
<bigcalm> http://wiki.cyanogenmod.com/wiki/HTC_Desire_%28GSM%29:_Full_Update_Guide
<mrevell> Oh yes, last time I looked at it doing it appeared I needed Windows. Did you do it from within Ubuntu?
<bigcalm> I think I had windows back then
<mrevell> Oh, looks like no need for that. Okay, ta. I won't start it tonight but might give it a bash tomorrow.
<bigcalm> np
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Andy Loughran] Project Management - http://zrmt.com/2012/03/05/project-management/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=project-management
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Andy Loughran] Etape Pennine - http://zrmt.com/2012/03/05/etape-pennine/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=etape-pennine
#ubuntu-uk 2012-03-06
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Ubuntu One for Application Developers - http://www.jonobacon.org/2012/03/06/ubuntu-one-for-application-developers/
<AlanBell> morning all
<TheOpenSourcerer> Morning
<diplo> Morning all
<daubers> Morning
<MooDoo> morning
<dwatkins> hiya
 * daubers tries to figure out why his RFID reader crashes after 4 reads
<dwatkins> Perhaps it doesn't like being up before 9am.
<daubers> dwatkins: I'm wondering if it's cheating to just reset it after the 3rd read
<dwatkins> daubers: technically yes, because that doesn't resolve the problem. What kind of device is it and what diganostic information can you get from it?
<daubers> dwatkins: It's an arduino with an SM130 strapped to it :)
<daubers> the device itself is a serial device. But I think it's my arduino sketch causing the problem
<daubers> the code (less a few type problem fixes) is here https://code.launchpad.net/~daubers/+junk/rdghackarduinodoor
<dwatkins> ah ok, I guess you'd need to have it output all its debug info to the serial line to see what's causing it to overflow or whatever
<dwatkins> I've been musing about setting up a temperature sensor with an Arduino, might be overkill but I already have the board.
<dwatkins> Do you have to close off any of the ethernet stuffs at the end?
<daubers> dwatkins: In theory it should never end
<daubers> The serial stuff only get's created once, then the loop runs forever
<dwatkins> gotcha
<ali1234> comparing char *s
<ali1234> ? really?
<daubers> ali1234: I know, I've fixed that in a version I've not pushed up yet
<daubers> I wrote most of this at 2am on a sunday
<dwatkins> isn't that just comparing the contents of memory locations, or am I lacking in my understanding of pointers?
<dwatkins> ah ok
<ali1234> it compares the addresses
<dwatkins> which could be anything...
<daubers> yes, which is why I changed it :)
<dwatkins> so if we are to debug your code, I guess the latest version would be best
 * daubers digs out his laptop
<dwatkins> That's a good point, I still have my 4th machine in my bag...
 * dwatkins has too many computers
<daubers> new version pushed
<andylockran> pong
<czajkowski> aloha
<ali1234> daubers: it's still for of char * comparisons
<andylockran> heya czajkowski
<andylockran> does anyone know if progress has been made porting ubuntu one to osx?
<daubers> ali1234: Huh? I only did that in one or two places before and replaced them with String() comparisons
<ali1234> then you have pushed the wrong version
<daubers> ali1234 Which line is char * on?
<daubers> sorry, a char * comparison?
<ali1234> line 39
<ali1234> 40 and 48
<daubers> wtf... my branched version definatley has lost those
<ali1234> did you commit the changes locally?
<daubers> Yup
<ali1234> because the last revision, 2012-03-06 08:57:48 UTC, does not have it
 * daubers pokes it again
<daubers> Lets try that
<daubers> that one has a type on String, but otherwise seems ok
<popey> morning
<MooDoo> morning popey
<daubers> ali1234: That should be better
<ali1234> now you have typos, that wont even compile
<daubers> Just one, I fixored it
<popey> andylockran: dont think any work has been done on that yet, but aquarius might know
<aquarius> andylockran, there's a chap who started a port on github
<aquarius> andylockran, it's also on the U1 roadmap; you may have noticed U1 advertising for a Mac developer. :)
<andylockran> ah, kewl
<andylockran> I hadn't seen that, the only github link now gets a 404
<andylockran> https://github.com/yevmel/Ubuntu-One-Client
<andylockran> aquarius: thank you
<diplo> Anyone got any idea on this
<diplo> /dev/sda2              6048352   5623408    117704  98% /
<daubers> diplo: sda2 is nearly full?
<diplo> used/available
<diplo> Why  is the available not 424944
<diplo> but displaying as 100 odd meg
<diplo> Any ideas where to look
<rhunwicks> diplo: blocks reserved for root on a ext3/4 filesystem?
<oly> can anyone tell me why sites in firefox ubuntu break http://www.motachoice.co.uk/ as an example its always the top nav pushing the left bar down
<diplo> Wouldn't they be subtracted on used though ?
<oly> the same firefox on windows works i see this on a lot of sites, and for a long time on linux so looking for a fix
<gord> oly, bigcalm is a web developer! he may know!
<gord> or may not
<gord> swings and roundabouts really
 * daubers was unaware a new series of Dirk Gently started last night
<oly> yeah, guessing its font or something just strange that same browser would render it differently
<oly> obviousl;y you could drop down the width, but that seems wrong when it works fine in firefox on other systems
<oimon> daubers, yeah, they advertise come dancing on ice and eastenders incessantly, but you never know that a new series of spiral, the killing, DG, or any other programmes worth watching
<JamesTait> Good morning, all! :D
<AlanBell> oly: what is broken? the text left margin over the diamond in vertical bars thing?
<daubers> oimon: Don't get adverts :)
<oly> if you look at the nav contact us is on a seperate line
<gord> oly, tried using the ubuntu font in windows?
<oimon> bbc has more ads than itv sometimes
<gord> AlanBell, the left menu is waaaaaaayy at the bottom of the page
<oly> if you scroll down it has knocked the left menu to the bottom of the page
<AlanBell> ah, so it is
<AlanBell> works in chromium
<oly> nope not tried using the font in windows actually
<MartijnVdS> Hm.. I have a spare machine
 * oimon is going back to lucid today
<MartijnVdS> let's try btrfs root
<AlanBell> oly: your site?
<oly> kinda, happens on a lot of sites though
 * bigcalm looks in
<gord> font is really the only difference i can think of
<bigcalm> gord: oly: without looking deeper, I would not know
<oly> i do the underlying code, css and all that is done by another department dont suppose they will want to restyle to fix,
<gord> bigcalm, ctrl+u ;)
<bigcalm> And it's not always the case. Ensure that everything validates
<bigcalm> gord: you don't control me :P
<oly> just a bit annoying when your working on the site, so was wondering if any one new the cause / possible fix
<gord> yet!
<bigcalm> Haha
<AlanBell> oly: #primaryCol isn't floating right as far as it should
<oly> even chromium was wrong the left bar was there but the nav had wrapped still
<gord> today i get my new roomba, tomorrow i purchase googly eyes for it, the day after. THE WORLD
<oly> does ubuntu apply different default styles to the indows version or something ?
<AlanBell> if you set the width to 572px; it jumps right to the place it should be
<AlanBell> no, it isn't styles it is a box model thing
<ali1234> gord: it's not on HD until next week tho
<ali1234> for some reason they are doing it all backwards
<gord> ali1234, me?
<gord> ali1234, maybe daubers?
<ali1234> oh yeah, daubers
<daubers> ali1234: Is it not iplayerable in HD?
<ali1234> maybe in lolHD
<ali1234> maybe not though since it hasn't been shown in HD on the normal telly yet
<gord> last i checked iplayer HD wasn't pretty, artifacts you can see from space
<daubers> It's not iplayerable in HD
<ali1234> yeah, iplayer HD is slightly better quality than dave
<daubers> gord: I found it depends on which HD stream you get from get_iplayer
<oly> unfortunately changeing the width i can not do, just dont get why you dont need same hack on windows ?
<oly> seems there must be some underlying difference and fonts is the only obvious one
<AlanBell> it is nothing to do with fonts
<diplo> rhunwicks, You were correct!
<diplo> 5% of space is reserved on root filesystem, which equated to 300mb we were missing.
<diplo> cheers
<andylockran> :)
<diplo> I new it saved space, didn't know it was that much
<oly> any ideas why its getting treated different between win and linux though ?
<AlanBell> oly: ok, maybe a little to do with fonts :)
<ali1234> my guess would be DPI issue
<rhunwicks> diplo: by default it reserves 5% of the disk space for root - which doesnt make much sense on modern drives
<oly> hehe, will try changing the fonts in a bit see if that resolves it :p
<rhunwicks> You can override when you create the filesystem using mkfs.ext4 -m 2 or similar
<ali1234> some container isn't quite big enough and the button gets word wrapped
<rhunwicks> Obviously you cant do it after the fact - you stuck with 5% unless you copy everything off the filesystem reformat it and then copy it all back
<AlanBell> ok, so what is happening is that the "contact us" string is overflowing the space it is given, and wrapping down, this means it is an element before the float right PrimaryCol that the PrimaryCol doesn't want to be to the right of
<diplo> Someone created a 6gb / file system
<ali1234> that's what i just said lol :)
<diplo> And searching for space :D
<rhunwicks> Any lvm?
<AlanBell> oly: you could make primaryNav a bit bigger, or probably add a clear:both after primary nav
<oly> unfortunatly i dont change stylesheets
<rhunwicks> Or available space elsewhere so you could move /var or /usr onto a separate filesystem
<AlanBell> or not float:right the "Contact Us" string
<AlanBell> yeah, main thing is the float:right on #primaryNav li.contactUs
<AlanBell> it would break on any system if you zoom text only
<diplo> rhunwicks, sorry on other screen
<diplo> ( Not an ubuntu system ) but no lvm :/
<diplo> Found 230mb in /var
<diplo> just working out correct way of cleaning it
<rhunwicks> what system?
<MartijnVdS> logrotate?
<rhunwicks> I mean os
<rhunwicks> apt-cache clean - or the yum equivalent?
<bigcalm> Oh boobs. Time for a reboot
<diplo> Sorry guys, busy morning
<diplo> Centos 4.3 :/
<diplo> It's /var/cache/yum
<diplo> But yum/up2date not installed
<diplo> Just googling correct way to delete
<oly> thanks for the info anyway AlanBell
 * popey tickles andypiper 
 * AlanBell spotted an andypiper video on a guardian article about the raspberry pi
<andypiper> yes indeed
<andypiper> leading to yet more moronic comments on said video
<andypiper> youtube is the height of antisocial media
<AlanBell> it is a pile of fail
<mungojerry> guardian commenters are as bad as dail mail commenters
<mungojerry> although none are as bad as youtube
<AlanBell> http://xkcd.com/202/ is what we say to that
<mungojerry> how do i regain focus to my terminal if compiz has crashed? xchat has focus right now
<mungojerry> compiz --replace &
<mungojerry> argh
<AlanBell> mungojerry: ctrl+alt+f1, log in, run unity
<mungojerry> AlanBell, i'm back on lucid :D
<AlanBell> or run DISPLAY=:0 compiz --replace &
<mungojerry> feeling the speeeeed
<gord> comment boxes are generally a honey trap for fail, regardless of the website they are on
<davmor2> czajkowski: prod!
<davmor2> morning all
<bigcalm> Delivering Hayley's car for an MOT plus having an early dentist appointment, I'm ready for bed again
<gord> morning
<bigcalm> Hi davmor2
<davmor2> bigcalm: my day start at 05:30
<czajkowski> davmor2: herrrro
<Dave2> I just got into work, I'm also ready for bed again.
<gord> ah right your in millbank this week right?
<daubers> GAH!
<bigcalm> davmor2: that's your fault for going to London
<daubers> WHy does itunes think it's more intelligent than me dammit
<MooDoo> morning davmor2
<davmor2> MooDoo: morning dude
<davmor2> bigcalm: technically it is the qa sprints fault for being in London and asking me if I can attend :P
<andylockran> morning all
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<dwatkins> hi brobostigon
<brobostigon> hi dwatkins
<DJones> Morning all
<mattt> morning morning
<MartijnVdS> \o
<mattt> howzit martin
<mattt> errr MartijnVdS :P
<mattt> just realized that didn't actually read martin :P
<MartijnVdS> Waiting for the mailman with a CPU
<mattt> oooh, nice
<MartijnVdS> and some sticks of RAM
<MartijnVdS> for the new "granbuntu" machine
<popey> \o/ granbuntu
<gord> i need more ram for my "gordbuntu" machine really
<gord> well not need persay, more, its possible to put more in, so i should
<directhex> hm, feeling good financially. looks like the car loan will be paid off at the start of november
<MartijnVdS> I hope the port forward in her DSL modem holds this time..
<MooDoo> directhex: lucky you,Â£900 if i want the garage to fix my bike
<daubers> MooDoo: How did you break it?
<MooDoo> daubers: MOT ! boo, just wear and tear over the year and winter
<daubers> Ooof
<daubers> Â£900 for MOT repairs?
<MooDoo> daubers: yeah, i'm not getting them to do it though, i can do the work myself, just need to source parts
<daubers> What do you need to do? Chain/break/tyres?
<MooDoo> daubers: yup....
<MooDoo> dics/pads, tyre
<directhex> toyota want to do hundreds of pounds of maintenance at my next service
<daubers> and they where going to charge you Â£900? Was this a dealer?
<directhex> new brake mcguffins, i dunno
<MooDoo> daubers: yeah it was......stuff that i'll do it myself, they can just retest
<daubers> MooDoo: Ahh... dealer prices == ripoff++
<MooDoo> daubers: oh yeah....i nearly died of heart attack
<daubers> MooDoo: They don't like it when you point out that gold plated brake discs are pointless
<MooDoo> lol
<gord> when i take over the world, all delivery people will be GPS tagged
<gord> and will be made to work 24/7
<daubers> when I take over the world, delivery people will be the first against the wall
<gord> how will we get things delivered then?
<daubers> anybody who asks questions will be next
<daubers> \o/ problem solved
<czajkowski> whoo my penguin oyster card holder has arrived together with the space invaders one for J
<czajkowski> :D
<dwatkins> Space Invaders oyster cards, czajkowski? :D
<czajkowski> covers!
<AlanBell> just what the smart london professional needs
<dwatkins> aha I see, in my excitment I missed the word 'cover' but it's still neat
<AlanBell> you didn't get this one then? http://shop.tfl.gov.uk/books_guides_travel_accessories_and_stationery/travel_accessories/product/Union-Jack-Oyster-card-Wallet.html
 * dwatkins wonders if having one that looks like a 5 pound note is a bad idea
<daubers> dwatkins: Just turn it into a magic wand
<daubers> bah, famous musicians make me angry
<MartijnVdS> daubers: which ones?
<daubers> MartijnVdS: All of them! At the moment, especially morrisey
<daubers> Famous musician trying to sell tickets/records in Argentina wades in to political quagmire to make himself popular shocker
<directhex> lolgentina
<directhex> anyone want to buy an xbox 360?
<popey> oooh, maybe
<popey> does it have a red ring of death? âº
<directhex> it did in mid 2007, so they replaced the motherboard
<directhex> it's been solid since then
<popey> pm me the details, my kids liked playing with relatives kinect and dance games
 * awilkins hates Eclipse sometimes
<bigcalm> awilkins: try netbeans
<awilkins> bigcalm, Well, I might consider it.. the primary reason I find Eclipse annoying is classpath issues when developing plugins for it
<bigcalm> Fair enough
<TheOpenSourcerer> Wow: Raspberry Pi is selling at 700 units a secondÂ http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2012/mar/05/raspberry-pi-demand
<TheOpenSourcerer> Demand was 20 times greater than our supply... That's 200,000 units when she said that.
<gord> one wonders how many of those were their intended audience
<TheOpenSourcerer> They currently are only making "developer" builds. These are not the "final" device intended for schools or kids.
<AlanBell> it is final
<popey> not really. final device is planned to have a case
<AlanBell> they are model B units, they will also do model A which doesn't have a network port
<TheOpenSourcerer> I think the "final" will have a box
<AlanBell> oh
<popey> looking forward to taking this into the kids school
<popey> they're keen on getting them
<TheOpenSourcerer> Do you have one then?
<popey> ICT teacher wants to see it in action
<popey> not yet
<popey> mid april
<TheOpenSourcerer> Farnell told me mid-May this morning
<TheOpenSourcerer> :-(
<TheOpenSourcerer> I can understand it if they are really selling 700/sec
<TheOpenSourcerer> That's astonishing
<AlanBell> and impossible :)
<AlanBell> that is 2.5 million per hour
<TheOpenSourcerer> "Demand for the Raspberry Pi  computer â a Â£22 British-designed system â was still running at 700 per  second at the end of last week, according to one of its main  distributors in the UK."
<AlanBell> however if you start with the statement "we sold out the initial 10,000 batch in the first 15 minutes" you get to 700/second
<ali1234> so by now they should have sold 1 for every person on the planet?
<TheOpenSourcerer> lol
<TheOpenSourcerer> I ordered 2 :-D
<TheOpenSourcerer> Buy shares in ARM :D
<AlanBell> actually you don't you get to something you can round up to 700/minute
<TheOpenSourcerer> Wish I had 10 yr ago when it was suggested to me.
<popey> s/ARM/broacom/
<TheOpenSourcerer> Ultimately ARM
<ali1234> do ARM get per unit royalties?
<TheOpenSourcerer> They get a royalty
<AlanBell> yes, thats how they work, they license the design for royalties
<TheOpenSourcerer> It's a stonkingly good business model IUAM
<ali1234> i thought it was a flat rate
<popey> .29
<popey> bah
<AlanBell> http://www.arm.com/products/buying-guide/licensing/index.php maybe it is
<ali1234> how do i make php write a debug message to the apache error log?
<ali1234> just print?
<TheOpenSourcerer> ali1234: in php.ini you can set a log file for php
<TheOpenSourcerer> and what type of errors to log
<ali1234> i don't want to raise an error
<TheOpenSourcerer> Not sure if you can get it to write to the apache log file.
<ali1234> i just want a quick and dirty message so i can tell what is going on
<TheOpenSourcerer> print_r()
<TheOpenSourcerer> print_r($myvar);
<TheOpenSourcerer> Will print arrays and objects
<ali1234> but that goes into the web page
<TheOpenSourcerer> yes.
<TheOpenSourcerer> (13:48:36) TheOpenSourcerer: Not sure if you can get it to write to the apache log file.
<AlanBell> http://php.net/manual/en/function.error-log.php
<ali1234> but it clearly does when an actual error happens
<ali1234> ah nice one
<AlanBell> use error_log and set the destination
<TheOpenSourcerer> handy
<AlanBell> gosh, it can email errors, that would be potentially annoying
<mattt> i have django email me errors, find it handy personally :)
<ali1234> problem i'm having is php silently fails to do what i asked :(
<ali1234> however i think i just figured out why
<mattt> wewt
<mattt> cuz i suck at php troubleshooting
<ali1234> ah there we go... id column on wp_posts in inexplicably uppercased
<ali1234> still doesn't work :(
<AlanBell> mattt: yeah, useful, but to be used sparingly!
<mattt> AlanBell: the idea is to enable that and have the emails directed at your devs ... works every time
<mattt> :D
<popey> hmm, can someone test something for me...
<popey> alt+F2, gedit
<popey> alt+f2, gksudo gedit
<popey> note the non-sudo one gives you 'untitled document 1' with no * to say it's been modified
<popey> the sudo one _does_ give a star
<popey> why?
<popey> (discovered when I did alt+F2, gksudo gedit /etc/X11/xorg.conf, and found not only did I have xorg.conf open, but *Untitled Document 1  too)
<AlanBell> if you add new tabs in the gksudo one they don't have *, it is just the first one
<mungojerry> TheOpenSourcerer, i have shares in ARM since 1999
<mungojerry> they are worth what i paid in 1999 due to the tech bubble. however if i'd bougt apple at the time, i'd be a millionaire by now
 * mungojerry isn't bitter
<mungojerry> i wanted to buy acorn back in the day, but didn't know how. i really would be a millinoaire if i had
<bigcalm> Buy the company or buy shares?
<AlanBell> "I liked it so much I bought the company"
<diplo> Can anyone  recommend me a good tutorial for installing postfix
 * mungojerry has a remington shaver
<diplo> Found a few but they all differ slightly, hoping someone has some recommendations :)
<mungojerry> diplo , i found the redhat documentation useful
<diplo> Not read any of theres actually, been searching ubuntu postfix sorta searches :)
<diplo> Will take a look ta
<diplo> Last time I did a MTA was qmail from source 8-10 years ago
<mungojerry> fixed all my performance issues with ubuntu today :)
<diplo> Funnily enough said install died on thursday last week after working flawlessly for the whole time
 * diplo is waiting for 12.04 and sort it from there
<PyjamaSpank> Just moved from Nvidia to ATI, and upgraded to 11.04. How do I enable compiz in classic mode?
<DJones> Is it just me, or does this robot look as though its running backwards http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-17269535 (I know its got no head, but the feet look the wrong way round)
<andylockran> ssh 192
<andylockran> ls
<andylockran> soeey
 * MartijnVdS gives andylockran a new root password
<andylockran> I wish that were my pasword
<andylockran> mine is much more complicated
<MartijnVdS> 5033y?
<daubers> zoey?
<andylockran> damn you all
<daubers> or zooey?
<daubers> ;-)
<andylockran> installing 12.04 :)
<andylockran> on my aspire revo - oneric seemed to be really slow on it
<andylockran> does that make sense?
<bigcalm> Depends upon what you expect of it
<MartijnVdS> Well it's not the best CPU ever, and not the best GPU ever
<bigcalm> Works ok on mine
<MartijnVdS> but it should work fine, i have some way older/worse machines and it runs OK on those
<daubers> popey: did google release a tool to go from gmail gplus to personal domain gplus?
<andylockran> i had lucid on it, and it worked adequately as my tv media pc
<andylockran> but yeah, once I put oneric on it it 'seemed' to have slowed
<bigcalm> When 12.04 stable is released, I'll put it on an SSD and put that in the revo. Should improve it
<bigcalm> Did you fresh install or upgrade?
<andylockran> fresh
 * bigcalm shrugs then :)
<andylockran> I've got a 120GB SSD that i might put in it, and take out of my mac
<kaushal> Hi
<kaushal> is there a way to capture the output of commands run on multiple servers using cssh ?
<popey> daubers: not that I am aware of
<PyjamaSpank> 12.04 does away with GNOME completely?
<popey> PyjamaSpank: we ship gnome in the repo, but the default desktop is not gnome shell
<kaushal> Hi popey
<PyjamaSpank> I'm having problems with GNOME , Compiz and my 11.04, so I'm reluctant to upgrade again
<PyjamaSpank> not sure if I should ask for help in GNOME, Ubuntu or ATI section
<daubers> popey: ta
<popey> TheOpenSourcerer: apparently that mail from farnell was sent in error
<popey> hi KrimZon_2
<popey> oh, he left
<TheOpenSourcerer> Thanks popey - how did you discover that?
<popey> how else?
<popey> twitter
<TheOpenSourcerer> lol
<andylockran> TheOpenSourcerer: popey, saw that post too, but thought it was AlanBell that made the complaint :s
<andylockran> doh
<andylockran> guys, ImageMagic'k's convert command?
<andylockran> how can I set the position
<bigcalm> What about it?
<andylockran> I want to set the position to convert in relationh to form crop
 * czajkowski stabs gord removes his tea and bickie allowance 
<gord> so violent..
<bigcalm> Mmm, tea
<gord> roomba's seem so proud of themselves for doing the simpliest thing, well done, you managed to find your way home after walking 20ft away from it, you don't have to play a happy little tune just for that
<popey> i want a roomba
<bigcalm> Me too. Except I would still have to tidy for it to go anywhere
<bigcalm> I would need to have a cat before I had a roomba though
<gord> my cat and my roomba seem to be getting along well http://lightbox.com/photo/VfucWcb
<gord> course she had a small heart attack and jumped about twenty ft in the air once it came on automatically to do the hoovering
<daubers> H3/me might get a roomba for his new housey house
<bigcalm> gord: why isn't she riding on it?
<gord> she ain't an animated gif
 * bigcalm heads to youtube for a fix
<gord> we need an episode of maru where he rides a roomba really
<gord> a roomba with a box on it
<directhex> heh
<czajkowski> http://i.imgur.com/F8Wop.jpg
<czajkowski> gord: your patch hasnt fix my alt key issue when on irc it still launches hud
<gord> czajkowski, not released yet, we have ap tests that confirm it works ;) wait for release
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Alan Pope] Improved Unity Files Lens Call For Testing - http://popey.com/blog/2012/03/06/improved-unity-files-lens-call-for-testing/
<AlanBell> we should sort out a Precise release party
 * MartijnVdS now has a btrfs /
<gord> MartijnVdS, careful with that, btrfs is shiny but falls over easy
 * popey pins a Bravery award on MartijnVdS 
<MartijnVdS> Note I haven't converted /home yet ;)
<MartijnVdS> Also, there's btrfsck now
<MartijnVdS> also:
<MartijnVdS> [    3.837132] Btrfs detected SSD devices, enabling SSD mode
<directhex> butterfusc!
<gord> oh there is? wow, progress
<gord> only took like two years or something ;)
<gord> AlanBell, party at your house? be there or be square?
<directhex> does it detect ssd if it's on lvm on luks?
<ubuntubhoy> anyone able to help me with 11.10 on an Aspire One A07561H netbook refusing to boot ?
<MartijnVdS> ubuntubhoy: does it give an error at all? or just a blank screen?
<ubuntubhoy> hangs at checking battery state
<ubuntubhoy> but it will boot fine through recovery
<ubuntubhoy> after selecting finish normal boot
<AlanBell> gord: I am up for that
<AlanBell> anyone got a different venue suggestion than round my house?
<diplo> If there is enough notice I'll attend a meet up next one there is
<diplo> Been meaning to come to the last 3-4
<AlanBell> oh, and RAT on 7th July?nolan name
<AlanBell> oops
<AlanBell> oh, and RAT on 7th July?
<diplo> that the train ?
<AlanBell> http://www.watercressline.co.uk/Our-Services/RAT
<AlanBell> yup
<AlanBell> choo choo
<AlanBell> TheOpenSourcerer: popey: czajkowski: christel: I am sure will be up for a RAT on 7th July :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Unfortunately I am away that weekend.
<AlanBell> 14th?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Looks OK.
<diplo> Didn't realise it was that far but certainly a maybe
<diplo> Need a hotel for the night though :)
<popey> 14th looks good for me
<MartijnVdS> Apt is scary fast now
<czajkowski> AlanBell: aye we should be ok also
<christel> there is a party at alans house?
<christel> and a RAT
<christel> in a train
<christel> i have no idea what a RAT is, but i am totally up for it
<christel> if i survive this week!
<AlanBell> excellent
<AlanBell> you will love the RAT christel
<MooDoo> christel: Real Ale Train
<christel> :D
<christel> ooooo
<christel> i am in!
<MooDoo> oh have i just spoiled it
<christel> can we make it depart NOW
<AlanBell> http://www.watercressline.co.uk/Our-Services/RAT
<AlanBell> ok, so if 14th July is good for the local contingent I think we should go with that
<christel> oh that is awesome
<christel> MooDoo: join us!
<bigcalm> Oh, the RAT!
<bigcalm> I had forgotten all about it
<bigcalm> Doh
<bigcalm> Did we agree on anything?
<christel> however, i do feel we need to do something before then
<christel> ideally even before beerex
<AlanBell> I think we just did bigcalm :)
<christel> because we havent beered since last year
<bigcalm> Sorry, been concentrating on work :S
<Dave2> All of you people have the same colour in my irssi, and it's a difficult one to read :(
<bigcalm> AlanBell: what was agreed?
<AlanBell> yes, Precise release party on 26th April
<AlanBell> bigcalm: RAT on 14th July
<bigcalm> Ta
 * bigcalm looks at calendars
<AlanBell> and we should do another Happy Hour
<AlanBell> perhaps the Wolverhampton crew could do one
<bigcalm> AlanBell: prod davmor2 and mrevell. I know nothing of the area
<Dave2> You should do one in Reading
 * Dave2 nods.
<AlanBell> probably more of a posse or massiff than a crew
<bigcalm> o.O
<AlanBell> reading is good
<bigcalm> The Wolverhampton disappointment?
<Dave2> Argh now I want Sweeney & Todd pie
<christel> yes! HAPPY HOUR
<Dave2> Also I have 7 hermans in my freezer.
<Dave2> Or is it 6
<AlanBell> oh marvelous
<christel> oh yes! we need a herman hour
<AlanBell> so, when can you make the Reading Happy Hour Dave2?
<christel> why didnt we do reading yet
<AlanBell> I will try to get to that one
<christel> yeah! i will deffo do reading as that isnt very far awaaaay
<christel> we are also overdue our farnham pub crawl
<Dave2> WHENEVER
<AlanBell> christel: because nobody specified a date :) it just takes one local to set a date when they are going to be at a particular pub
<AlanBell> then we all pile in
<christel> hehe
<christel> Dave2: for some reason i now have mental imagery of you dressed as shakira
<christel> and it is not particularly hot :s
<Dave2> ...oh...dear...
<AlanBell> ok, Dave2 how about 29th March
<bigcalm> AlanBell: RAT - is one person booking places or do we need to do this individually?
<christel> AlanBell: what is best for all the alans, weekends or weekdays (for local crawl)
<AlanBell> bigcalm: individually
<bigcalm> Ta
<Dave2> AlanBell: perfect
<Dave2> because I already booked the 30th off
<AlanBell> Dave2: what pub?
<Dave2> You got me there :(
<Dave2> The Hobgoblin!
<AlanBell> daubers: o/
<AlanBell> ok
 * popey asks other geeks
<AlanBell> popey: about the RAT?
<Dave2> The problem with that one is that the pubs I go to are zerodegrees with work, which probably isn't the right place, and the Back of Beyond with the LUG, which is a Wetherspoons
<popey> about the pubs in reading
<AlanBell> ok
<bigcalm> Can anybody recommend some accommodation near the RAT?
 * diplo interested as well
<AlanBell> it does connect with the return train back to Farnham and onwards to London
<TheOpenSourcerer> bigcalm: In Alton?
<daubers> AlanBell: lo
<bigcalm> TheOpenSourcerer: *shrug* I'd live that way so don't know what's ideal :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> There are plenty of Inns, hotels & B&Bs around
<bigcalm> Humm, a night in Farnham wouldn't be too bad
<christel> you'd live the alton way?
<popey> "Reading Geek Night and TVRRUG meet in Copa, which is on King's Road, a short walk out of the town centre"
<diplo> TheOpenSourcerer, for me as well, what ever is closest to the get off point that I don't need another taxi and a place to leave the car
<popey> "That's usually quite quiet, and you can book either the downstairs area (at canal level, for larger groups) or a side area upstairs (at ground level)."
<popey> " Silicon Corridor meet at the Back of Beyond, which is a Wetherspoons another 50 yards down the road from Copa."
<popey> "Hobgoblin is very small and crowded, and I think is in the process of being redecorated."
<daubers> DOn't go to the Hobgoblin! Awesome pub, very crowded, nowhere to sit
<TheOpenSourcerer> AlanBell: How about the Hotel De Ville?
<christel> the hobgoblin is teeeeeny
<daubers> Copa is nice, but a bit poncy :) Back of beyond is a spoons
<christel> they only have enough room for one alan at the time
<Dave2> what daubers said
<Dave2> Althogh I've never been in Copa
<Dave2> But I'd say it's more of a bar than a pub
<popey> http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=51.4546139538288&lon=-0.964541137218475&zoom=18
<Dave2> From the looks of things
<daubers> (Sahara is expensive, but has the _best_ range of spirits anywhere ever and have bartenders who know what they're talking about)
<Dave2> Sahara is definitely more of a bar than a pub
<daubers> Dave2: Exactley that :) They're quite good about booking downstairs though
<popey> "The food at Copa is expensive and only "OK". The BoB is typical Wetherspoons."
<daubers> copa that is
<popey> " The Warwick between the two is apparently a rather good Thai place."
<AlanBell> http://www.hoteldevie.com/business/faqs.html#swingers-hotel-myth
<christel> daubers: spirits? are you trying to get us drunk :x
<daubers> christel: They have an awesome range of single malts
<Dave2> I've only been to Sahara after leaving Zerodegrees
<daubers> and do cocktails
<Dave2> So I've generally already been a bit intoxicated by the time I've visited
<christel> i do appreciate nice whisky
<Dave2> That corner is a straight <10 minute walk from where I love though.
<Dave2> er, live
<daubers> Never been to the thai place :)
<christel> 13
<daubers> Jamies Italian is quite nice, can't book a table though
<daubers> Oracle is full of <generic chain> food places
<Dave2> That it is
<Dave2> Well, the food court is
<daubers> The bit by the riverside :)
<Dave2> But not really the place for a happy hour
<popey> CHOOSE SOMEWHERE! :D
<TheOpenSourcerer> christel: I got a bottle of this yesterday as a birthday present: http://www.bruichladdich.com/the-whisky/classic-whisky/classic-bruichladdich/2001-the-resurrection-dram
<popey> oh, did my mind say that aloud? âº
<christel> you guys are useless, you've taken longer to uhm and aah over these potential venues than i do over buying shoes!
<daubers> popey: Food more than beer or beer more than food?
<popey> i care little for this 'food' you speak of
<Dave2> It's a "people turn up and have beer and maybe food", rather than a "people turn up for a meal with some drinks", AFIAK
<Dave2> AFAIK
<daubers> BoB then? We can always go somewhere else afterwards
<christel> TheOpenSourcerer: oooh my laptop is called bruichladdich after a very beautiful bottle of bruichladdich flirtation i once had
<Dave2> That might be bad for people who come late
<Dave2> "Where is everyone? :(:(:("
<daubers> Dave2: That's what twitter is for
<christel> yeah, i prefer beer to food
<daubers> Normally end up dozing off quite happily in BoB anyway
<Dave2> Not everyone has a smartphone!
<christel> no food == more room for beer!
<Dave2> But yes, the main problem is that I don't really know anywhere appropriate, BoB's is probably the closest.
<AlanBell> did someone choose a pub yet?
 * daubers gets some dice
 * popey gets some ice
<AlanBell> roll that D20
<bigcalm> Hayley has expressed interest in the RAT :)
<Dave2> I don't have enough experience of pubs in Reading that aren't zerodegrees, sahara, the hobgoblin, or bob's
<bigcalm> Will book when I get paid
<daubers> Dave2: I'd just go with BoB or Copa
<daubers> Copa is a little nice than BoB but BoB is more pubby
<christel> BoB
<christel> AlanBell: march 29th, BoB, Reading.
<AlanBell> ok so what is BoB? does it have a longer name?
<christel> i've decided for them
<AlanBell> and a postcode?
<Dave2> Back of Beyond
<daubers> Back of Beyond, the weathspoons on kings road
 * TheOpenSourcerer recalls a catchy theme tune... 
<daubers> SCLug meet there
<Dave2> Or do we want to go with a Wetherspoon's closer to the town centreâ¸
<Dave2> â½, even
<TheOpenSourcerer> Oh, sorry that was BoD
 * AlanBell is saying BoB like Rowan Atkinson
<christel> Dave2: oh, is this place near the train station for those training it?
<daubers> AlanBell: http://www.jdwetherspoon.co.uk/home/pubs/the-back-of-beyond
<Dave2> It's walkable
<christel> sounds good
<Dave2> It's not a massive distance, it's just not right in the centre
<Dave2> (It's also ~20 minutes from me instead of ~10, if that helps at all.)
<daubers> Dave2: Meh, at the moment it's busable from me... but at that point it might be train+bus
<daubers> AlanBell: The dice agree http://ubuntuone.com/43tdWXq174qAtlaHhMcg12
<davmor2> Booo!
 * daubers has a heart attack
<davmor2> czajkowski: prod for not being here and another prod just for proddings sake
<czajkowski> herrrro
<AlanBell> davmor2 just the chap
<davmor2> wow I just saw the Topic man that looks awesome I bet it was popey who made the topic that awesome and possibly just to annoy czajkowski with the awesome
<davmor2> AlanBell: I'm not here it wasn't me
<davmor2> AlanBell: what's up dude
<AlanBell> happy hours \o/
<AlanBell> need one in Wolverhampton
<AlanBell> it needs cheering up
<czajkowski> they cna have one tomorrow at llunch
<czajkowski> in the lgihthouse
<czajkowski> :)
<czajkowski> Lighthouse even
<Dave2> You reminded me of the BBC news article about cities
<popey> You reminded me of a game written in perl called cities.
<Dave2> Which I now can't find.
<christel> :o
<christel> i'll play with your cities.
<Dave2> Found it.
<davmor2> Right so I can try and organise one for after the co-working space a fortnight Thursday at a pub,  but we have a hell of a lot on top of each other currently
<davmor2> AlanBell: ^
<Dave2> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-13841482 - "Although the whole of the UK was enjoying an economic boom, the new cities, with the exception of Wolverhampton, outperformed their regional counterparts in terms of increasing investment and reducing unemployment."
<AlanBell> davmor2: we are doing one in Reading on 29th March
<davmor2> AlanBell: so ours would be the 22nd of march or the 19th of April
<AlanBell> nice
<davmor2> gord, bigcalm: any preference?
<bigcalm> Humm?
<christel> bigcalm wants both
<christel> he's greedy like that
 * christel nods
<bigcalm> I have no idea what's being discussed, doing some work for a change :P
<hamitron> work? :| *confused*
<bigcalm> Writing an API for a project that was started in 2001. Slow progress...
<hamitron> hehe
<hamitron> :D
<davmor2> bigcalm: a happy hour I said we would run one on a co-working space day as half the people likely to come would already be there
<bigcalm> davmor2: sounds good
<davmor2> bigcalm: I'd finish the project first then you'll be able to write the api much quicker
<bigcalm> davmor2: heh. The project is finished, this is an additional enhancement
<bigcalm> I meant that writing the API was slow progress
<davmor2> bigcalm:  so are either of these 2 dates  22nd of march or the 19th of April  better for you?
<popey> AlanBell: that patch to improve compiz already _is_ in 12.04
<AlanBell> oh, cool
<bigcalm> I thought it was one per month? With this month's having just been posted to the mailing list
<christel> AlanBell: we should do a co-working space day! i am all jealous of them.. all you alans should partake, only you spend your days at client sites i guess
<AlanBell> bigcalm: roughly, so we can plan the following month
<AlanBell> christel: we are looking into getting an office
<christel> oooh can i come work in your office? :D
<bigcalm> :O
<bigcalm> davmor2: other than the workplace days themselves, I have no plans for either date. You choose :)
<christel> i suffer with serious cabin fever when working on silly (big) projects
<AlanBell> christel: well we have to find one first
<davmor2> gord:  same question ^
<christel> occasionally i do the laptop in pub thing, but then i end up drinking wine and watching people instead
<bigcalm> christel: me too
<christel> which is such a bad move
 * bigcalm froths at the mouth far too often
<davmor2> christel: you gonna come it's only a couple of miles from yours right ;)
<christel> davmor2: hehe i think it's like 2 hours :P
<davmor2> christel: We'll take that as a yes then right? :D
<christel> maybe
<TheOpenSourcerer> God I fancy a pint.
<Dave2> I still want a Sweeney & Todd pie
<TheOpenSourcerer> Think I might offer to drop the kids off at Scouts shortly ;-)
<christel> i fancy a pint but i have a silly project to finish
<czajkowski> christel: no rest for the wicked :)
<Dave2> Gaah, I really want a Sweeney & Todd pie, it's been all of several weeks since I had one.
<czajkowski> diddums
<christel> czajkowski: indeed!
<davmor2> TheOpenSourcerer: Who's this pint woman and does your missus know?
<TheOpenSourcerer> She is tall, slender & dark and slips down real easy.
<bigcalm> `-`
<davmor2> TheOpenSourcerer: Hahaha
<Dave2> My phone told me I'd got an e-mail from the sclug mailing list informing me that there's a happy hour in Reading on the 29th.
 * Dave2 head off
<Dave2> heads, even
<smouty> southampton happy hour?!? Suggest the Hobbitt on the 20-03-09
 * AlanBell thinks smouty is living in the past
<gord> he just has a reeeeeeeally long ping
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: nah, in the future. 2020 hasn't been yet
<smouty> sorry I am antiquated but meant 20-03-12
<gord> you meant 03-20-12!
<gord> wait no, i'm wrong
<gord> i'm tired
<smouty> to clarify 20th march 2012
<smouty> that is for a happy hour in southampton at the hobbit
<jacobw> good evening
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Laura Czajkowski] Ubuntu Accomplishments  Install and have some fun - http://www.lczajkowski.com/2012/03/06/ubuntu-accomplishments-install-and-have-some-fun/
<popey> http://www.beeb30.org.uk/
<Oli> czajkowski: Hey, thanks for standing up for Ask Ubuntu earlier (even if it did mean bodhi_zazen got super-upset)!
<czajkowski> Oli: not going into that again :)
<Oli> Oh I'm sure there's more than enough fire under that bridge, but I'm just reading it and wanted to thank you for the initial comment.
<czajkowski> Oli: np
<OmNomDePlume> COME ON YOU ARSE-ANALS
<czajkowski> OmNomDePlume: language!
<directhex> bottom-bottomlys
<OmNomDePlume> ZUT ALORS LE GUNNERS
<OmNomDePlume> Arseanal 3 - 0 Peelan
<bigcalm> czajkowski: going to the RAT event?
<czajkowski> yup
<bigcalm> Yay
<bigcalm> Hayley is too, upping the lady quota :)
<AlanBell> \o/
<AlanBell> czajkowski: Jon coming too?
<brobostigon> lol. on thr mailing list alan described RAt, with the title. "Choo Choo!" :)
<brobostigon> i like.
<AlanBell> it does!
<AlanBell> http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-uk/1603/detail/
<bigcalm> AlanBell: are we not able to add ourselves to this event?
<AlanBell> no, because I don't want anyone adding themselves on Launchpad and thinking that they don't have to buy a ticket
<AlanBell> so I set the registration URL to the website
<bigcalm> Fair enough :)
<Azelphur> I just found a pretty scary security vulnerability in gamesurge o.O
<Azelphur> I can gline practically any bot on the network
<bigcalm> AlanBell: maybe add people upon being told of tickets being purchased?
<AlanBell> we can sort out a "so who is going then" thing nearer the time, but I don't want people getting confused
<Azelphur> someone used it to attack my bot, which is how I found out
<andylockran> howdy
<czajkowski> AlanBell: yup
<lozzer>  i want to revamp the gui for this app http://postimage.org/image/t58g6hbnv/ any idea on how to start
<jacobw> lozzer: subscribe to the development list, study the source, contact the developer with questions that arise.
<mattt> evening all
#ubuntu-uk 2012-03-07
<buzz_>  I just updated ubuntu precise packages (running xfce) and firefox is crashing when typing in a couple of characters to the address bar. Anyone else seeing this ?
<buzz_> seems to affect thunderbird also
<MooDoo> morning all
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Notes From Canonical Community Team Meeting - http://www.jonobacon.org/2012/03/07/notes-from-canonical-community-team-meeting/
<daubers> Morning
<popey> morning
<diplo> Morning all
<daubers> so I think my memory leak is down to the Arduino Strings classes
<MartijnVdS> daubers: cool
<daubers> Need to run some tests this afternoon to double check though
<mattt> morning
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<MartijnVdS> \o brobostigon
<brobostigon> o/ MartijnVdS
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<brobostigon> morning bigcalm :)
<bigcalm> Hi brobostigon
<ubuntubhoy> is it possible to remove lightdm without removing ubuntu-desktop ?
<JamesTait> Morning all! :D
<JamesTait> ubuntubhoy: According to aptitude info, it would appear not.
<ubuntubhoy> yeah
<ubuntubhoy> giving me grief
<ubuntubhoy> netbook wont boot past checking bat stats
<ubuntubhoy> and I think lightdm is the issue
<JamesTait> ubuntubhoy: I may be wrong, but I think if you mention this in #ubuntu-desktop they'll be able to help you.
<ubuntubhoy> cheers, will join & ask
<JamesTait> If not, they'll probably have a better idea than me where else to ask. :)
<christel> GOOD MORNING
<gord> loud =\
<christel> aw sorry
<bigcalm> HELLO CHRISTEL! :)
<christel> HELLO BIGCLAM
 * AlanBell is an anticapitalist
<diplo> heh bigclam
<diplo> :P
<AlanBell> bigclams sound tasty
<bigcalm> AlanBell: give me your money
<bigcalm> I shall always be a clam to christel
<bigcalm> Wednesday night = Wolves LUG night = steak night \o/
<andylockran> nhowdy
 * andylockran is anti-growth and pro-prosperity
<christel> mmmclams
 * daubers is pro cake
<bigcalm> I wish pay day would hurry up and get here so that I can pay my car insurance. Direct Line want over 750 quid, Hastings Direct quote 488 quid. What does Direct Line know that I don't?
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: how to make money
<christel> are you with direct line currently?
<bigcalm> Yes
<bigcalm> Have been for 5+ years
<christel> *nod*
<christel> they wanted to up our premiums by ridiculous amounts last year, so i looked around, found a better quote -- phoned them to say i would be going elsewhere
<christel> and they then beat the other quote by a significant chunk of money
<bigcalm> Once I have money in my account I'll be calling them to see why they think they can play this
<christel> (making my premiums even smaller than they previously had been)
<christel> yeah, definitely phone them
<bigcalm> Sadly I forgot about looking around last year. Insurance auto renewed on me :(
<diplo> christel, I tried that last year with Churchill
<diplo> been with them probably 7-8 years if not longer
<diplo> No accidents in 15+ years never claimed on them
<diplo> And they were dearer than 20 other insurers
<diplo> :/
<daubers> Oooooh... forgot about the 4 day weekend next month
 * daubers ponders a picnic at Bletchley
<christel> :(
<christel> ooh we have a 4 day weekend
<daubers> 6-9 April :)
<christel> nice
<daubers> So who fancies a picnic on the 6th of April?
 * czajkowski shal be in ireland 
<andylockran> daubers: where?
<andylockran> Bletchley :D
<daubers> Yup :)
<daubers> czajkowski: That's a silly place to be
<gord> on second thought, lets not go to ireland, tis a silly place
<MartijnVdS> "The Land of Ire"
<bigcalm> gord: :D
<BigRedS> Anyone know how to get Mac Mail to recheck with an IMAP server for new folders?
<BigRedS> my google fu is failing
<MartijnVdS> close it, then restart?
<HazRPG> hey all \o
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: sup dude :)
<MartijnVdS> \o
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: 2 weeks of NOTHING :)
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: Just thought I'd keep you in the loop, finally got round to doing a full reinstall :)
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: Does pulse work now?
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: yeah I know, been d/c'ed for a while... finally got my internet sorted out (2Mbps sadly ;()
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: as long as it works.. :)
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: yeah it does, plus wine1.3 has sound too :)
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: (I meant: "I've taken 2 weeks off work")
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: oh heh :P
 * daubers goes to fail another motorbike test
<diplo> Good luck!
<MartijnVdS> daubers: No you're not! *\o/* daubers
<DJones> +1 to that, good luck
<HazRPG> daubers: good luck dude
 * MartijnVdS is off to the stores for a bit
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: enjoy :)
<bigcalm> Morning davmor2
<davmor2> Morning people
<davmor2> morning bigcalm
<davmor2> czajkowski: prod!
<czajkowski> davmor2: poke
<MooDoo> morning davmor2
<davmor2> yay czajkowski is broken took long enough :P
<davmor2> Morning MooDoo
<MooDoo> how are you davmor2 ?
<bigcalm> czajkowski: you were doing so well
<czajkowski> I made it to march
<bigcalm> Will you now need to make up for lost time?
<czajkowski> poor nights sleep shall go back to being normal again
<selinuxium> Morning all o/
<davmor2> MooDoo: still recovering from the trip to the big smoke yesterday
 * AlanBell will be in London tomorrow evening
<AlanBell> with TheOpenSourcerer and the other UK OpenERP partners
<andylockran> h, very nice
<andylockran> what for?
<andylockran> meeting, planning, new project?
<AlanBell> beer :)
<iclebyte> is there some app which lets you pick a mirror and setup your /etc/apt/sources.list file?
<AlanBell> iclebyte: there is something that picks your closest mirror and sets it all up for you
<gord> software-sources has a button for that
<iclebyte> AlanBell, what is the utility called?
<iclebyte> is it a dpkg util ?
<AlanBell> it is in software-sources
<AlanBell> as gord mentioned :)
<iclebyte> in synaptic?
<iclebyte> there must be a command line util
<AlanBell> no, you can get to it without going via synaptic
<iclebyte> how?
<iclebyte> (server
<iclebyte> )
<gord>  you could write a script that pings all the mirrors and then chooses the one with the lowest ping if you really wanted to do it command line
<iclebyte> no worries, i thought there was a utility as a standard part of dpkg
<iclebyte> thanks anyway
<popey> i did that gord âº
<jpds> iclebyte: Just use gb.archive.ubuntu.com :P
<bigcalm> What's for lunch?
<gord> i think the big ploughmans sammich from the shop down the road, that thing is nice
 * popey ponders lunch also
<TheOpenSourcerer> did someone say lunch?
<TheOpenSourcerer> I haz chocolate cake
<BigRedS> I had chocolate cake...
<TheOpenSourcerer> Curried beans?
 * popey ponders
<TheOpenSourcerer> Cheese & Marmite on toast
<DJones> TheOpenSourcerer: That sounds good, although would be better without the Marmite & toast
<davmor2> TheOpenSourcerer: You're a sick sick man
<popey> for some reason I really fancy a pot noodle
<TheOpenSourcerer> What?
<TheOpenSourcerer> ^^ davmor2
<davmor2> TheOpenSourcerer: Ruining cheese with Marmite
<TheOpenSourcerer> That's a great combination.
<TheOpenSourcerer> You should try it sometime ;-)
<davmor2> TheOpenSourcerer: No Marmite makes feel sick before it close to my gob :D
<davmor2> TheOpenSourcerer: You're welcome to love it but I'm firmly in the hate camp
<christel> i have only had marmite once
<christel> shortly after coming to the uk
<christel> i assumed it was chocolate spread (well, it was brown and on toast..)
<christel> my tastebuds went into shock
<davmor2> christel: that's okay theres room over here in the Hate camp :)
<popey> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qe5gNEiUxMk
<popey> for gord
<christel> davmor2: yay!
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: I have vanilla shortbread for the hate camp ;)
<MartijnVdS> *afk for a few minutes*
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: haha, you're definitely in then :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> mmm - cheese on toast, marmite and tomato puree :-D
<popey> nom
<davmor2> TheOpenSourcerer: there is a reason that Ketchup, brown sauce and Branston Pickle were invented :P
<popey> so that northerners would eat some fruit and vegetables?
<TheOpenSourcerer> hah
<davmor2> popey: this from the man who snook off and made a advert in las vegas and never told anyone :P
<popey> i have no idea what you're talking about (again)
<Myrtti> you're so money supermarket
<davmor2> and subtly changing your name to Brian so we won't think it's you ;)
<DJones> popey: http://www.thedrum.co.uk/news/2012/01/06/moneysupermarket-launches-new-epic-ad-set-las-vegas (In case you've not seen it)
<davmor2> popey: the thing that made me laugh was the first time my wife saw it she went that looks like whatsit from uds, me: who Popey, Wifey: Yes that's the one :D
<popey> i refuse to accept it exists
<BigRedS> Gotta say, I'd not seen the likeness before
<BigRedS> But now I completely can
<gordonjcp> I think he looks more like dotwaffle
<MartijnVdS> so.. popey == dotwaffle?!
<MartijnVdS> come to think of it.. I've never seen them together in the same room
<Dave2> Haha. I had not seen that ad before.
<gordonjcp> I've seen a photo of dotwaffle and popey in the same room, but I think it was photoshopped because of some of the pixels
<gord> popey, retort http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=endscreen&v=WlD2X0kYkxo
<Myrtti> I've even talked to both in the same event
<andylockran> yo
<andylockran> I'm going ipv6 at home (or at least I want to)
<andylockran> I'm with sky broadband, any tips on routers .etc?
<popey> lolsky
<andylockran> was that a russion lol, or lol  sky
<Myrtti> lol sky
<directhex> ipv6 on sky? yeah, not happening
<jpds> andylockran: No, that's Ð»Ð¾Ð».
<andylockran> I've set up a tunnel to just my laptop
<andylockran> was thinking of asking for a 54 from my hosting provider and setting up my own tunnel through to home - just wasn't sure what to use as the endpoint at home.
<andylockran> is teredo a bad idea for a 'roaming' machine?
 * MartijnVdS gets a /48 routed to home
<bigcalm> http://paste.ubuntu.com/873082/ What do you expect this bit of PHP to do?
<dwatkins> echo 'true', but I'm guessing this is a trick question
<bigcalm> dwatkins: do you have PHP installed on a handy machine to run it?
<bigcalm> Why would you expect it to echo 'true' ?
<dwatkins> bigcalm: yeah, not sure how to run it from the command line, but I could put that into some html I guess
<bigcalm> If you have php-cli installed, you'd run it with php file.php
<dwatkins> I did that, seems to output the entire file, bigcalm
<bigcalm> Oh, add <?php to the 1st line
<BigRedS> dwatkins: you need a <?php at the beginning
<dwatkins> aha, thanks folks
<bigcalm> I have to remove the <?php from pastebin pastes
<BigRedS> anything not in <?php   ?> tags is assumed to be text to be echoed. But you don't need the closing ?> any more and it's a bit frowned upon now
<dwatkins> ok, I get 'true' running that on BSD.
<BigRedS> since if there's linebreaks after it it can cause problems when you try to edit headers
<bigcalm> Right, why does it return true?
<dwatkins> because the strings/numbers are equivalent
<bigcalm> They aren't
<BigRedS> well, == is an arithmetic comparison, not a string comparison
<dwatkins> haha, good point
<bigcalm> Look at the last digit
<bigcalm> I see
<bigcalm> I did wonder why it worked when I used ===
<BigRedS> so it might be that they're casted to strings by the 's and then both are true.
<dwatkins> they're not arithmetically equivalent though
 * BigRedS doesn't do php
<bigcalm> <Aquarion> bigcalm: I expect it to break maxint and therefore be true.
 * dwatkins wondered if it was a rounding error
<BigRedS> aha
<bigcalm> Between 2 channels I have learnt a little more. Cheers :)
<dwatkins> I'd be interested to know the issue
<gord> hard to get work done when it looks so nice outside
<BigRedS> work fixed that for me by not having windows
<gord> the thinkpad is nice and portable and has lots of battery life, maybe i'll be able to get some coding done at the park in the sun this year ;)
<BigRedS> "You bought me a laptop, I thought you *wanted* me to go to the park all day!"
<andylockran> howdy
<bigcalm> Thanks to htop, I found that I had installed drizzle and forgotten about it. Constantly running and doing nothing. DELETED!
<bigcalm> </strongbad>
<MartijnVdS> BALEETED!
<Dave2> Was it raining on your CPU's parade?
<bigcalm> Nope, but high enough up the list for me to notice
<BigRedS> ncdu is better than du by way more than htop is better than top
<bigcalm> What does nc du for you?
<BigRedS> it's a cursesy du
<BigRedS> so it does a du on a directory and then you go down to the one you're interested in and hit enter and it dus that dir
<bigcalm> Most intersting
<bigcalm> interesting
<bigcalm> Installed but will I remember to use it? :)
<davmor2> bigcalm: probably not, you have a head and often forget to use that :P
<bigcalm> Och, well I never
<bigcalm> No beer for you tonight!
<davmor2> bigcalm: So just like normal then :)
<bigcalm> Yep
<bigcalm> I'm quite enjoying this 'socialising' thing
<popey> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/705007/comments/11
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 705007 in unity (Ubuntu) "Unity has no method to maintain properties of launchers" [Medium,Confirmed]
<popey> would be lovely if someone picked up ULE
<MartijnVdS> Let's first fix the "menu doesn't show up until you move your mouse" bug
<davmor2> AlanBell: so now I've had time to look and all that I'll run a happy hour on the 19th of April then that is one a month for a start and also means people have time to prep for it
<AlanBell> \o/
<popey> yay
<davmor2> AlanBell: it can act as a pre-release party too :)
<AlanBell> yup
<bigcalm> davmor2: where were you thinking?
<davmor2> bigcalm: that'll be the next job
<TheOpenSourcerer> Gosh - The Landlady at my local won the Pub Pie Championship! http://www.britishpieweek.co.uk/index.php?p=be_the_face
<TheOpenSourcerer> I blame popey - he got me thinking about Pi(e) farms
<bigcalm> Does she have a face like a pie?
<TheOpenSourcerer> That's her face
<bigcalm> Oh, I hadn't followed the link
<AlanBell> oh wow, my daughter has just made a laptop out of paper
 * AlanBell takes photos
<bigcalm> Cool
<bigcalm> How old is your daughter?
<AlanBell> 9
<AlanBell> https://plus.google.com/u/0/109175303602657131317/posts/cGGEd2zzCUK
<gord> AlanBell, you could totally sell this device to hipsters all over the globe
<gord> market it with "innovative stylus interaction" and ship with a ball point pen
<bigcalm> AlanBell: that is so sweet :)
<AlanBell> https://plus.google.com/u/0/109175303602657131317/posts/438PERhMUag video :)
<bigcalm> AND it runs Ubuntu!
<AlanBell> it does :)
<AlanBell> keyboard is interesting, mostly alphabetical
 * bigcalm ponders continuing work at the LUG meeting tonight
 * AlanBell finds the code for the annoying and useless unity panel drop shadow
<AlanBell> wonder what would happen if I submit a patch to remove it
<bigcalm> People will rejoice?
<gord> AlanBell, shadow being over non active windows is not a bug, unfortunately =\
<AlanBell> and shadow becoming detached from top bar when using compiz enhanced zoom also isn't a bug
<AlanBell> I could make it a ccsm setting to turn the silly thing off
<gord> don't
<gord> if you want a setting, use gsettings
<AlanBell> isn't that the same thing that ccsm pokes at?
<gord> no
<AlanBell> err, ok, so where is the user interface to poke gettings settings?
<AlanBell> and won't that be confusing if most config options are in the ccsm plugin but some things are elsewhere?
<gord> AlanBell, either the appearance section of control centre or my unity - no one should be using ccsm really
<AlanBell> myunity is a pile of fail
<AlanBell> gambas, bad bad bad UI, any change to the plugin needs a synchronised change to myunity
<AlanBell> appearance section of control centre would be a good place to put settings, but there isn't really a unity section
<AlanBell> there is the zoom stuff in the accessibility section that needs to be ripped out or changed to turn on enhanced zoom because it is looking for gnome shell magnifier
<dwatkins> is MyUnity supposed to be one config tool to bind them all, or just specific to Unity's GUI settings?
<AlanBell> specific to the bits of unity they bother to add settings for
<AlanBell> it doesn't read the XML file that lets unity declare its settings
<dwatkins> oh
<AlanBell> most of the source is stuff like "if os == "Ubuntu 11.04" then  . . . else . . ."
<MartijnVdS> automatix all over again?
<dwatkins> it has hard-coded values?
 * dwatkins looks at the calendar
<gord> the unity settings are mostly dev tools
<gord> it shouldn't just expose everything
<dwatkins> has that sort of thing not been considered a Bad Idea for a couple decades?
<AlanBell> dwatkins: yes, I don't get the wild support for myunity over ccsm
<dwatkins> I'm really starting to wonder if there's any 'unity' amongst the developers, to be honest, shouldn't there be a single mechanism for applications to present their configuration data and have it modified?
<dwatkins> I used to think things were moving towards having an XML file for configuration data in the home directory or a specific location in /etc for each application or service which made this accessible.
<AlanBell> there is gconf-editor
<AlanBell> and ccsm for compiz plugins
<ali1234> and dconf-editor as well now
<AlanBell> ccsm deals with more datatypes
<AlanBell> isn't dconf-editor the deprecated one?
<MartijnVdS> gconf is old
<MartijnVdS> as in, has existed forever
<MartijnVdS> dconf is new but only has 3 config keys in it
<MartijnVdS> maybe 4
<dwatkins> Why do we need a new configuration tool?
<AlanBell> so is gsettings not the new hotness?
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: I think so
<AlanBell> or does gsettings go with dconf-editor not gconf-editor?
<MartijnVdS> dconf-gsettings-backend - simple configuration storage system - GSettings back-end
<MartijnVdS> Does that answer your question? :)
<AlanBell> so what was the old one? dsettings?
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: Gnome2 had gconf/gconf-editor
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: I have no idea where dconf fits
<MartijnVdS> and gsettings -> same
<gord> gnome 3 has gsettings and dconf is the gsettings backend that it uses, thus dconf editor is used to edit it from a user perspective
<gord> you can also have other backends if you choose
<MartijnVdS> then why are there only 4 items in dconf-editor?
<gord> because those are the root nodes? expand them?
<AlanBell> MartijnVdS: I have lots of things in dconf-editor
<AlanBell> it doesn't seem very sophisticated, not many datatypes
<MartijnVdS> what kind of datatype do you need?
<AlanBell> well "color" would be one
<gord> AlanBell, look up gvariant
<gord> it uses gvariant as its "datatype" which is quite sophisticated
<AlanBell> keybinding would be another
<AlanBell> yeah, I mean in the UI
<AlanBell> there is no widget for setting them nicely
<AlanBell> so keybindings are just strings like "<Control><Alt>Delete"
<AlanBell> and you can type invalid stuff in like "<foo><wibble>Delete"
<AlanBell> even though this keyboard doesn't have a wibble meta key
<gord> no... its dconf editor, not gnome-control-centre
<AlanBell> yeah, so exposing user tweakable features means hacking the UI of gnome-control-centre
<AlanBell> and supplying your own widgets to adjust the settings
 * AlanBell thinks gnome-control centre should be replaced by ccsm
<directhex> ikonia, have you assessed ubuntu cola?
<popey> evening
<TheOpenSourcerer> Jeez - My twitter stream is full of Apple fan bois
<TheOpenSourcerer> And there's nothing decent on TV either....
<TheOpenSourcerer> Bored. Haz beer & chocolate in fridge though
<brobostigon> i found a new game called minetest, it is like minecraft, but actually runs on my eeepc, so i might have a play of that.
<Azelphur> looks kinda cool :)
<brobostigon> it is yes, takes some getting used to.
<popey> woop woop!
<MartijnVdS> popey: woop?
 * DJones gives half a woop to painkillers & wine
<popey> Had the go-ahead to attend UDS
<popey> which is excellent
<DJones> Congrats popey
<MartijnVdS> \o/
<AlanBell> that is woop worthy
<gordonjcp> popey: \o/
<popey> Attending as a community person too, so can attend some sessions of my choice âº
<MartijnVdS> not as a canonicalite?
<popey> mon-tues as a canonicalite, wed-fri as a community person
<AlanBell> interesting arrangement
<AlanBell> so are the community sponsorship notifications going out now?
<popey> well, i am at a sprint the week before
<popey> i am only "supposed" to be there mon-tues
<popey> decided to stay on, on my own time
<MartijnVdS> .. to sing on All-Stars night
<popey> :D
<popey> maaaybe
<MartijnVdS> Hm, it conflicts with http://www.nerinapallot.com/shop2/?productDetails.cfm?Basket=1@,&ProductID=1653
<MartijnVdS> which I'm already going to
 * bigcalm_lappy is 4 inches away from Adam Sweet - any requests?
<gordonjcp> bigcalm_lappy: ask him where his gong is
<dwatkins> bigcalm: ask him for the number of the 419 scammer so you can call them ;) (just looked up his last blog entry)
<MartijnVdS> woo. Collectd on WRT54 pokes collectd on VPS
<MartijnVdS> Tomorrow: write code to parse temp/pressure/light readings and put them in collectd
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Ubuntu Forums and Ask Ubuntu - http://www.jonobacon.org/2012/03/07/ubuntu-forums-and-askubuntu/
<mattt> MartijnVdS: you like collectd?
<mattt> MartijnVdS: was looking at it, but i can't install the agent on my hosts, so i'm limited to snmp
<proscreens> hi
<proscreens> hello
<proscreens> is this working
<proscreens> hi
#ubuntu-uk 2012-03-08
<kjs> yp
<kjs> yo
<kjs> even
<MartijnVdS> mattt: collectd is very nice -- it speaks snmp too.
<TheOpenSourcerer> "Holey Optochip" batman!Â http://is.gd/VPLKkqÂ :-D fromÂ 
<MartijnVdS> à² _à² 
<popey> Morning
<TheOpenSourcerer> Hey popey
<TheOpenSourcerer> Loving the Holey Optochip story ^^
<TheOpenSourcerer> And I see Nvidia join the Linux Foundation.
<popey> yeah, that could be good for us âº
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: don't expect them to come up with specs/non-blob drivers anytime soon though
<TheOpenSourcerer> Yes MartijnVdS - I agree.
<TheOpenSourcerer> But all main GPU builders are now members.
<MartijnVdS> That's good.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Shows the strength and breadth of Linux proliferation iuam
<popey> I'm more interested in up to date tegra drivers and armhf builds of their driver
<TheOpenSourcerer> I'm sure that is what is motivating them.
<MartijnVdS> popey: I'd love to se a nouveau port to ARM :)
<MartijnVdS> popey: just to keep them on their toes
<popey> nouveau doesnt work on arm?
<MartijnVdS> Well tegra chips aren't geforce chips
<MartijnVdS> are they?
<MartijnVdS> http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/nouveau/2011-April/008135.html
<popey> indeed, which is why i wondered why you said "arm" and not "tegra" :D
<MartijnVdS> well they tend to go together
<diplo> Morning all
<Myrtti> moin
<popey> Moin indeed
<davmor2> morning you funky, funky people oh and czajkowski PROD!
<czajkowski> aloha
<czajkowski> davmor2: how are you my dear!
<bigcalm_lappy> Gooooood morning peeps!
<davmor2> czajkowski: very tired
<czajkowski> awwwww
 * bigcalm_lappy falls asleep on his keyboard
<bigcalm_lappy> I think I can hear bacon frying
<bigcalm_lappy> Mmmmm, might wake me up
<davmor2> czajkowski: here have a hug
<davmor2> MooDoo: me owld mucka
<bigcalm_lappy> I smell bacon!
<davmor2> bigcalm_lappy: has gone cappuccino hunting, well bacon sarnie hunting with the chance of coffee to follow :D
<JamesTait> Morning all! :D
<andylockran> :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Just had coffee and choc digestives
<andylockran> morning all
<TheOpenSourcerer> Morning.
<MartijnVdS> \o
<bigcalm_lappy> Baaaaaaaaaaaaaacon
<andylockran> shududp
<bigcalm_lappy> Come to the Lighthouse in Wolverhampton and have yourself a baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaacon sandwich
<BigRedS> I just felt incredibly vegetarian as I wondered whether that was a joke about bacon and sheep
<bigcalm_lappy> Jono Bacon?
<Mythx> Hi all, im new to the community!. Look forward to getting involved and chatting to like minded people!
<andylockran> welcome Mythx
<Mythx> Cheers!
<davmor2> hello Mythx
<daubers> Morning
<bigcalm_lappy> Welcome to a better, freer life, Mythx
<bigcalm_lappy> I know freedom is subjective, but I am biased :)
<Mythx> I have always dabbled with Ubuntu, but since changing jobs and meeting another like minded people, we are starting to convert our buisness over to using Ubuntu Server.. Its a long process but i haven't enjoyed work this much for a long time
<bigcalm_lappy> :)
<andylockran> Mythx: that's great news - I know that very same feeling and it rocks
<andylockran> knowing you've got a community of people to help you - if you put in the effort, then you open up a whole new world of opportunities
<andylockran> a bit like learning French
<Mythx> Yeah it is!, so i thought since im going to be more heavily involved in Ubuntu then i would get involved with the community
<andylockran> Good news.
<dwatkins> tres bien
<andylockran> ;)
<seeker> No mgdm?
<popey> NO! mgds?
<popey> or mgdm even
<czajkowski> AlanBell: really good videos you've made
<andylockran> what about mgdm?
<czajkowski> https://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+question/190050 if anyone wants to help a new person to ubuntu
<s-fox> Hello everyone.
<Seeker`> andylockran: mgdm isnt here :(
<czajkowski> https://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+question/190047  oh dear they seem a bit lost
<Mythx> Hey s-fox
<s-fox> Hello Mythx, how are you?
 * Seeker` wanted to show him http://cjo20.net/sponza4.png http://cjo20.net/sponza5.png
<davmor2> hello s-fox
<Mythx> Good Thanks, Its sunny today so i cant complain!
<s-fox> Hello davmor2 , you okay? :)
<davmor2> no tooo tired to concentrate
<Mythx> coffee and cake gets me through the day...
<popey> Seeker`: you should come to oggcamp this year and talk about your illuminated TV project
<ikonia> it's stunning
<ikonia> I've already started spec mint up
<ikonia> mine
 * TheOpenSourcerer wonders where oggcamp 101 will be?
 * BigRedS approves of the numbering convention
<czajkowski> oh today is gonna be a fail day !
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<MartijnVdS> \o
<brobostigon> o/
<Mythx> \o/
 * bigcalm_lappy cattle prods mrevell
<christel> good morning lovelies
<bigcalm_lappy> Good morning christel my dear :)
<christel> popey: ooh you have decided to do oggcamp? do you have dates yet?
<popey> nope
<bigcalm_lappy> Today's track getting me motivated: http://open.spotify.com/track/5enxm2GCRdqTXlAANlx8Cr
<czajkowski> bigcalm_lappy: oi no pikcing on my boss!
<christel> whatever you do, don't ask Dave2 and daubers to help you pick the date!
<bigcalm_lappy> czajkowski: he's a bit numb today, he needs waking up
<Dave2> Location, not date!
<Dave2> AlanBell suggested a date, I went "yeah, fine by me"
<popey> well, we do have a location and date in mind but need to confirm it
<christel> not penzance please
<Dave2> Carlisle.
<directhex> popey, shipped
<popey> thank you!
<daubers> oggcamp was briefly discussed at the hackspace meeting yesterday
<bigcalm_lappy> czajkowski: mrevell is providing much amusement for us today :D
<davmor2> czajkowski: be nice to boss day today I think
<czajkowski> I'm always nice to my boss
<davmor2> czajkowski: nicer then
<davmor2> czajkowski: just don't offer him food
<bigcalm_lappy> He's self harming himself with a beefburger
<czajkowski> reminder folks mothers day is sunday week.
<bigcalm_lappy> I bought a card 2 weeks ago :)
<bigcalm_lappy> Just hope I remember to post it
<popey> daubers: oh?
<dwatkins> thanks czajkowski - I'm always confused as to whether the US uses a different date for mothers day
<czajkowski> dwatkins: it does I think
<dwatkins> later in the year, iirc
<daubers> popey: Indeed :) Forward planning to what events we might want to get involved in/do events for
<mrevell> mrevell_ damn you imposter
<mrevell> dagnamit
<christel> haha
<bigcalm_lappy> Which one of you killed spotify for me? :(
<BigRedS> Sorry!
<diplo> Are you breaking your fixed VM line bigcalm_lappy
<diplo> VM aren't happy!
<bigcalm_lappy> diplo: I'm in the Lighthouse in Wolverhampton with davmor2, mrevell & gord
<diplo> ah :D
<Dave2> is it horribly sunny?
<bigcalm_lappy> So I get to blame this ADSL connection
<diplo> Well the four of you are breakign stuff
<bigcalm_lappy> Dave2: half of that is true
 * davmor2 prods bigcalm_lappy to prove it
<Mythx> Aint the lighthouse a cinema? Never been.. Only heard it mentioned?
<bigcalm_lappy> It's a "media centre" which includes a cinema
<Mythx> Ah right, so like a gallery and stuff/
<bigcalm_lappy> Yus
<Dave2> It's a media centre with windows.
<bigcalm_lappy> They have a room which they offer out for free for peeps to work in and use their wifi. Just buy a few coffees in the day
<davmor2> Dave2: lots of windows
<Dave2> lots of sun
<Mythx> Brill, there was a place like that in Liverpool i visited once, but didnt realise there was one in Wolves..
<christel> i wish i was in wolves so i could coworkspace with you :(
<bigcalm_lappy> christel: that would be cool
<christel> yesss
<Mythx> I work the other side of Brum, between Birmingham and Coventry
<christel> except you'd never come back, i mumble obscenities at my computer all the time
<christel> :D
<Dave2> cow ork space
<bigcalm_lappy> christel: the workplace day is more akin to #lugradio than here ;)
<Dave2> What, mostly quiet with a bit of talking every so often?
<Dave2> Still hanging around despite not having a real purpose any more?
<christel> haha
<christel> i also pull faces at my computer all the time
<christel> and and send irate emails to my clients telling them that they are stupid
<christel> :x
<bigcalm_lappy> Dave2: hah
 * brobostigon gives his computer a v finger sign every so often, when it decides to playup.
 * bigcalm_lappy plays footsie with czajkowski's boss
<bigcalm_lappy> And he's smiling
<czajkowski> that could be the drugs from the dentist making him smile, he could be crying inside
<popey> Whenever I used to clash toes with someone at previous work under the desk he'd always say out loud "ALERT! Airspace Violation!"
<czajkowski> LOL
<bigcalm_lappy> czajkowski: just what I was thinking, poor lad
<bigcalm_lappy> popey: haha
<bigcalm_lappy> Humm, might bring my USB rocket launcher with me for the next workplace day
<Seeker`> popey: not sure if id have anything interesting or  new to say
<popey> doesnt have to be new
<popey> most people at oggcamp would likely not have seen or heard of it
<directhex> popey, the pickup vehicle was some woman's corsa, with a child in the back seat, and she had to cram it in the boot a bit, so... let me know if it arrives in good shape or not
<bigcalm_lappy> I really think the Lighthouse needs a bed or sofa for naps
<popey> hah
 * AlanBell got a sponsorship email for UDS today :)
<czajkowski> yay
<popey> excellent
<popey> its gonna be a good one
<czajkowski> popey: it is full of bacon and syrup every day
<popey> hah
<Dave2> dammit you're making me want bacon
<czajkowski> <--- lunch
<Dave2> syrup sounds an odd one, mind
<mattt> where's the next uds?
<AlanBell> left hand side of America
<mattt> ooh, swanky
<gord> means longer flight :(
<gord> i prefer europe uds's. can get home on the friday
<MartijnVdS> Also, less time zone hassle
<Dave2> At least it's not in Australia?
<AlanBell> they should do one in the Maltings
<MartijnVdS> Dave2: I've heard the Australia one was good though
<MartijnVdS> Dave2: way way back :)
<popey> http://www.marriott.com/hotels/event-planning/floor-plans/oakdt-oakland-marriott-city-center/
<popey> mattt: ^^ there
<Dave2> That's an interesting header image
<Dave2> five tables in the middle of nowhere
<AlanBell> I would not have that carpet in my house
<Dave2> Also, is there actually a slope in that room?
<Laney> mmm UDS
 * czajkowski shall bring tea bags just for gord
<popey> oooo good call
<popey> 2 weeks with no proper tea will be hard
<Dave2> THEFT.
<czajkowski> popey: aye I met gord on week 2 of uds poor chap was rather distressed
<czajkowski> saying that if the bug on hud doesnt go away I shall strangle him in rl :)
<AlanBell> are you allowed to abuse cow orkers in such a harsh way?
<gord> two weeks of sprinting make gord into zombie
<gord> AlanBell, well before, she could do it with no repercussions, now i can contact HR ;)
<AlanBell> they do have plenty of nice coffee in the state
<AlanBell> s I am not so much a tea drinker
 * bigcalm_lappy cheers everybody up with constant hic-ups
 * brobostigon points and giggles.
<brobostigon> sowwie.
<mattt> AlanBell: good coffee, and cheap
<mattt> you'll be buzzing the entire UDS :)
 * davmor2 is laughing at bigcalm_lappy interrupting mrevell 's meeting with his hiccupping antics :D
<bigcalm_lappy> czajkowski is a mean lady
<bigcalm_lappy> Laughing at other's miss-fortune
<davmor2> bigcalm_lappy: You just figured that out :)
<czajkowski> bigcalm_lappy: davmor2 will ye stop banging things!
<bigcalm_lappy> davmor2: czajkowski has been nothing but kindness towards me until this day
<davmor2> czajkowski: not me
<davmor2> it is noisey here today
<bigcalm_lappy> Possibly the cafe lady making coffee
<directhex> ikonia, so have you tried ubuntu cola? it's phosphoric acid based, so non-premium, but if the flavour works it might be okay. fentimann's is a huge disappointment (although better warm than chilled)
<Dave2> I've read that as "prehistoric acid" three times now
<ikonia> directhex: I had it years ago when everyone was foolishing going "OMG ubuntu has made a cola drink" and wasn't massivly keen on it, but I need to give it another crack of the whip
<ikonia> directhex: I tried Lucozade cola a week or so ago, again. Wasn't impressed
<Dave2> omgubuntu made a cola drink?
<ikonia> directhex: Pepsi just set the bar too high
<ikonia> Dave2: doubtful as there would be 100000000000,00000000000 sheep saying "omgubuntu says it's ace"
 * Dave2 eyes that comma
<ikonia> it's a lot of sheep
<daubers> ubuntu cola tastes a bit like liquorice to me
 * daubers wasn't massivley impressed
<ikonia> I don't remember it as liquorice, but I remember the not really impressed feeling
<popey> bug 949958
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 949958 in xorg (Ubuntu) "Full screen video corruption on nvidia betwen lightdm and desktop" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/949958
<popey> anyone else get that?
<popey> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abw1U9JdnzY
<TheOpenSourcerer> popey you'll like this one. Watch the video: bug 949946
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 949946 in OpenERP Web "Progress tag value in Projects list incorrect value" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/949946
<ikonia> bug 2374823472834729 Ubuntu Cola does not have a pleasing taste
<lubotu3> Error: Launchpad bug 2374823472834729 could not be found
<popey> lol
<popey> thats great fun
<TheOpenSourcerer> Not very useful though.
<TheOpenSourcerer> One guy said it reminded him of the Car in Knightrider
<gord> popey, nope, not on my machine, unless it started recently
<gord> popey, tried between gdm -> desktop?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Anyway - Mrs TheOpenSourcerer is about to sweep me off to the station. Off to London for an OpenERP Partner meetup. Laterz.
<AlanBell> o/
<directhex> ikonia, lucozade cola is the worst i've tried for years
<ikonia> I was not impressed
<ikonia> fyi http://www.monarchycatering.com/products/itemviews/red-bull-special-red-lime-cans-GBP.html
<popey> yes gord
<popey> oh, instead of lightdm?
<gord> popey, yeah
 * popey tries
<ikonia> directhex: considering ordering some "joly"
<ikonia> jolt
<ikonia> directhex: Boylans Cane Cola, tried that ? or Azteca Cola ?
<directhex> ikonia, nope. i had a caribbean brand they had at the local tesco though. a bit artifical, but an interesting full flavour
<popey> gord: doesnt happen with gdm
<popey> only lightdm
<ikonia> just found "coke Zero cherry".....Hmmmm
<gord> lightdm bug then i guess
<gord> ikonia, pepsi max cherry is amazing
<ikonia> gord: pepsi is a different ball park
<gord> ikonia, pepsi max is very different from pepsi ;) i hate pepsi
<gord> love pepsi max
<directhex> isn't pepsi max just a slightly altered diet pepsi recipe, with a different set of sweetner & flavouring ratios?
<ikonia> it's no raw
<popey> pepsi max ftw
<gord> directhex, its basically pepsi with replacements for sugar and twice the caffeine ;) wonderful stuff
<gord> especially if your in the US as they don't put bloody corn syrup in it like they do everything else
<popey> what is their obsession with corn syrup?
<directhex> popey, price.
<directhex> all sugar is subsidized. in europe, we subsidize sugar beet production
<directhex> in the us they subsidize corn farmers
<popey> ah
<directhex> there are three main sources of sugar - sugar beet, sugar cane, or chemically altered alternative carbohydrates (i.e. corn)
<MartijnVdS> cane sugar++
<directhex> there's not much to choose between beet and cane. cane just feels more exostic, because it's grown in hot climates
<directhex> whereas beet does best in damp miserable grey countries
<Adriannom> hi.  if i plug in a usb drive it appears in the sidebar of file manager for only a millisecond before disappearing again.  kern.log says "Attached SCSI removable disk", and shows no errors.  xubuntu 11.10.  any ideas?
<Adriannom> all usb drives do the same.  they work on other machines.  tried all usb ports but same results.  device shows in lsusb
<stuphi> With the drive plugged in, run Disk Utility and see what that says.
<TOSDroid> Surbiton.
<Adriannom> stuphi, i'm in xfce
<Adriannom> i don't think it has disk utility
<Adriannom> stuphi, what kind of things does disk utility say?  is there a console equivalent?
<Adriannom> here's syslog: http://paste.ubuntu.com/874707/
<stuphi> Adriannom: Sorry, I just looked at 11.10 and missed the X :-)
<Adriannom> :)
<stuphi> Adriannom: What does 'cat /etc/mtab' say?
<Adriannom> one min, just backing up the usb data with a manual mount before going on :)
<stuphi> Adriannom: So you can manually mount. Forget that. I have no idea now.
<Adriannom> heh
<Adriannom> thanks anyway
<Adriannom> probably something to do with whatever is automounting
<stuphi> That is where I would look.
<stuphi> Trouble is, Ubuntu has made me lazy, as it all 'just works' most of the time.
<stuphi> I see there is a new Linux From Scratch book out. Maybe I need to do that again.
<danhg_> Hi mrevell - is this coming across?
<mrevell> Hello yes
<mrevell> this is dog
<danhg_> great!
<danhg_> Dog?
<mrevell> danhg_, http://i3.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/217/040/48ACD.png
<danhg_> :)
<MartijnVdS> Yo, dawg
<stuphi> Adriannom: I don't know, but maybe this will help http://thunar.xfce.org/documentation/C/using-removable-media.html
<danhg_> MSG <mrevell> <hey>
<stuphi> fail
<stuphi> :-)
<mrevell> :)
<Adriannom> thanks stuphi , reading
<Adriannom> looks like a problem with xfdesktop
<bigcalm_lappy> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAjM1pRIFP4 # hello, yes, this is dog
<davmor2> bigcalm: you have far too much time on your hands http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5C6X9vOEkU is better anyway
<davmor2> bigcalm_lappy:
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Laura Czajkowski] Changes to work items in Launchpad  Blueprints - http://www.lczajkowski.com/2012/03/08/changes-to-work-items-in-launchpad-blueprints/
<ali1234> popey: why are you campaigning to remove launchers from secondary monitors? it is unusable that way
<ali1234> see bug 769331
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 769331 in unity (Ubuntu) "Cannot launch programs while running a fullscreen application on primary display" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/769331
<popey> I'm not campaigning for anything. Just asking people to vote for whichever way they think works best for them.
<popey> The design team asked for the vote
<ali1234> er, where is this vote?
<popey> omg
<popey> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2012/03/poll-multi-monitor-launchers-in-ubuntu-12-04/
<ali1234> i've only seen the ML discussion where you specifically said that having launcher on all monitors is bad
<BigRedS> Popey in having-an-opinion shocker
<BigRedS> :)
<popey> ah okay
<popey> well, for me it sucked when I had a launcher on both desktops, always out, with the barrier at the screen edge
<popey> however I can see how it might be better with hiding launchers, or no barrier, or some other magic
 * Laney wonders if they know about Feature and User Interface Freeze
<popey> âº
<ali1234> well the obvious fix for the barrier problem is LET US DECIDE WHICH EDGE THE LAUNCHER GOES ON
<popey> lolchoice
<ali1234> you know, like we've been asking for since unity was released
<ali1234> the simple fact is if you are running a program fullscreen, you can't access the launcher on that monitor, nor the workspace switcher
<ali1234> i wonder how the voting would go if one of the options was "make it optional and also let use decide which edge thelauncher goes on"
<popey> haha
<ali1234> "I want launcher on the left on left monitor and launcher on the right on right monitor."
<ali1234> this is so logical and obvious that it will never happen
<BigRedS> This is the future of the Linux desktop. It's *supposed* to be confusing
<BigRedS> I think it was felt that it was all getting rather too eay
<BigRedS> *easy
<AlanBell> yes I would like launcher on the right for the screen om the right
<DJones> Anybody with rasberry pi's on order read this http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/03/08/raspberry_pi_delayed_networking/
<popey> yeah
<meet> hi
<popey> lo
<BigRedS> middle
<TOSDroid> Think I just saw AlanBell wizz past on 	a Boris bike in a hat!
<TOSDroid> Indeed I did.
<TOSDroid> Is twitter down?
<slvr> workin' here
<popey> haha
<lazarus_> popey: hey
<popey> hi
<czajkowski> https://twitter.com/#!/czajkowski/status/177818081022836738/photo/1
<czajkowski> hehehe
<popey> chaps
<popey> i am using empathy with bonjour/avahi/zeroconf chat
<popey> i can see my kids machines on the network, but no chat ever goes between them, they don't see what I say and I can't see what they say
<dwatkins> Does it read your mind, popey? ;)
<popey> i am on 12.04 and they are on 11.04
<popey> :( I can't chat with my kids via telepathy. Anyone else got this issue?
<popey> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/telepathy-salut/+bug/950164
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 950164 in telepathy-salut (Ubuntu) "Telepathy 'people nearby' in 12.04 never receives chat messages" [Undecided,New]
<gord> popey, nope, used it today on a fully upgraded machine
<popey> gord: did you use it between 12.04 and non-12.04?
<gord> popey, nope, just 12.04 -> 12.04
<popey> yeah, the bug is specifically between 12.04 and non-12.04
<popey> 12.04 to 12.04 works fine
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jonathan Riddell] CeBIT 2012 - http://blogs.kde.org/node/4543
<gord> ah
<popey> directhex: does Jonny Lamb still work for you?
<directhex> yes, but he's in canadistan at the moment
<popey> wondering if I should upstream my bug report in telepathy-salut
<popey> telepathy-salut is a collabora product isnt it?
<popey> oh, freedesktop
<directhex> popey: all of telepathy will end up in some collaboran's mailbox, but we host it on fdo
 * popey goes out for curry
<popey> ttfn
<apacheuk> anyone else having issues with the ubuntuOne music store this evening?
<apacheuk> all good again
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Andrew]  - http://whyareyoureadingthisurl.wordpress.com/2012/03/08/466/
<Azelphur> Anyone know if customs would charge me for this, and if so roughly how much? http://tinyurl.com/7wwwdge
<DJones> If anybody uses polly for twitter etc, do you ever find it crashes and just closes every now and again
<ali1234> Azelphur: why don't you just go to curries and buy a 32" TV?
<Azelphur> ali1234: have you seen the resolution on that thing
<ali1234> that doesn't answer my question...
<Azelphur> ali1234: because the resolution is nowhere near high enough?
<Azelphur> and also, 32" is tiny, even compared to my current setup?
<Azelphur> basically, huge downgrade?
<ali1234> so buy 4 of them
<Azelphur> ali1234: there is no TV in curries that will outperform my current setup, let alone that one
<ali1234> that monitor is garbage
<czajkowski> mayeb you have an over complciated set up
<czajkowski> :)
<ali1234> yamakasi, really?
<ali1234> also it only has DVI
<Azelphur> ali1234: how so? I've done some research, it's apparently using reasonably high quality samsung panels.
<Azelphur> there's reviews all over the place, it's generating quite a bit of buzz tbh
<ali1234> it needs dual link dvi?
<Azelphur> yep
<ali1234> it even says it's an LG panel
<Azelphur> derp, my bad
<Azelphur> mixing LG and samsung for no apparent reason, but LG are good too obviously
<Azelphur> ali1234: http://www.overclock.net/t/1215866/reviewed-400-2560x1440-ips-no-ag-90hz-achieva-shimian-qh270-and-catleap-q270 lots of good info on here
<ali1234> maybe because that yamakasi logo is a blatant rip off of the samsung one lol
<Azelphur> haha
<czajkowski> we haeva  cool samsung tv here
<czajkowski> does 2d->3d conversions
<czajkowski> and is also a 3d  tv
<czajkowski> amazing clear display
<ali1234> do you find it makes films look like tv shows?
<ali1234> ie star wars looks like an episode of doctor who
<czajkowski> nope
<ali1234> turn on motion smoothing then :)
<ali1234> the effect is really amusing
<s-fox> Hello.
<mattt> hey there
<s-fox> Hello mattt, how're you?
<MartijnVdS> _something_ changed in gnome-terminal that broke mouse-scrolling
<mattt> s-fox: gewd gewd, you?
<s-fox> I'm good thank you,  just poking around on the ubuntu forums
<MartijnVdS> poor you ;)
<s-fox> Why do you say that MartijnVdS?
<MartijnVdS> I can't stand forums.. there's never an easy way to keep up with just the interesting bits
<s-fox> MartijnVdS find the threads you like and subscribe
<s-fox> :)
<MartijnVdS> but then the thread only gets 3 replies
<MartijnVdS> I'm just not forum-compatible
<jacobw> irc ftw
<MartijnVdS> irc, or if you need to _do_ something some kind of shared document (Google Docs, etherpad-alike)
<mattt> s-fox: just skimmed over your post about the forums
<s-fox> Pretty rare for me to post anything on my blog that a) goes to the planet and b) is over a 200 words mattt ;)
<Azelphur> ali1234: I just found a way to get that monitor for Â£152
<mattt> s-fox: :)
<mattt> s-fox: well, looks like it got some traction
<ali1234> Azelphur: oh yeah?
<Azelphur> ali1234: yea, from some korean shop though but I found a company that imports
<Azelphur> http://item.gmarket.co.kr/detailview/Item.asp?goodscode=234109902&pos_shop_cd=SH&pos_class_cd=111111111&pos_class_kind=T&keyword_seqno=949952607&search_keyword=Q270
<s-fox> I am tired the "them and us" thing mattt, i would like to see better interaction. We are all on the same side
<Azelphur> 268,800 south korean won = Â£152 \o/
<ali1234> just take a holiday in south korea
<ali1234> and take 4 empty suitcases
<directhex> plus shipping plus tax
<Azelphur> haha
<mattt> s-fox: don't use the forums to be honest, but hope you guys get it all figured out :)
<s-fox> i hope so too mattt
<s-fox> thank you :)
<ali1234> ugh, ubuntu achievements is pulling in horrible horrible couchdb
<directhex> the elders of the internet declared sql to be evil. nosql all the things!
<MartijnVdS> no that was the youngsters of the internet
<ali1234> lol the front end is horribly broken as well
<ali1234> it seems to be using a html component for nearly all the UI
<ali1234> said html component still has a "reload" option on right click, which gives you a listing of / for some reason
<ali1234> also the accomplishments don't even work
<ali1234> maybe a problem with launchpad though
<ali1234> i think i crashed the verification server or something
<AlanBell> evening all
<czajkowski> AlanBell: hey
<czajkowski> good day ?
<AlanBell> yup
<AlanBell> on a train home now
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Call All Django Web Developers - http://www.jonobacon.org/2012/03/08/calling-all-django-web-developers/
#ubuntu-uk 2012-03-09
<popey> Morning
<vibhav> morning
<Azelphur> pfft morning, havn't slept yet.
<MartijnVdS> \o
 * popey is at his mums house, waiting for some pikeys to come and tarmac the drive, so I can tell them to get lost
<Azelphur> popey: haha, did your mum get half scammed?
<mattt> morning
<popey> yes
<Azelphur> poor mum :(
<bigcalm> popey: don't upgrade your mum's machine while you're there
<popey> âº
<popey> tempted âº
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<bigcalm> I'm still unsure what to do with my parents' viglen
<bigcalm> Replace it with a revo maybe
<daubers> Morning
<bittin> Morning
<bittin> updating my PC to 11.10
<popey> retro
<bigcalm> Heh
<bittin> need to find a good way of using Gnome instead of Unity when done
<bigcalm> Anybody would think that you wanted to use a stable OS
<bittin> and hope bugs with my network card is fixed
<bittin> so i don't have modprobe cool commands to get the wlan to work :D
<christel> morning
<bittin> morning christel
<AlanBell> morning all
<bigcalm> Hullo
<czajkowski> morning
<bittin> morning czajkowski
<bigcalm> Hello awakening peeps
 * mattt just had full english, and now needs nap
<popey> hehe
<popey> egg and bacon sarnie here
<bigcalm> That's what you get for visiting your mum?
<bigcalm> I should visit my parents more frequently
<popey> yup
<daubers> What is it with the channel and making people want bacon?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Morning someone mention bacon?
<daubers> #ubuntu-uk - Bacon a prerequisite
<JamesTait> Happy Friday - wait, what, again? Already? ;)
<bigcalm> Happy poptarts and cuppa tea
<bittin> now my computer is installing that tirrible Unity
<bittin> thinking of trying out gnome 3
<bittin> instead
<gordonjcp> I found gnome 3 a lot harder to use than unity
<bittin> or maybe i should set it up as my old PC and stick with old shiny Openbox
<bittin> :)
<bittin> now iam on 11.10
<popey> slightly less retro \o/
<TheOpenSourcerer> must. stop. listening. to. 80s music. on. youtube...
<TheOpenSourcerer> Found myself tripping over Psychadelic Furs, Echo & The Bunnymen, Killing Joke, Talking Heads...
<bittin> seems i can use it without being sad with Gnome 3
<gordonjcp> TheOpenSourcerer: nice
<BigRedS> We were having a '90s day earlier, but I think that's been vetoed since
<bittin> now i got Gnome 3 and gfx drivers aswell :)
<bittin> and a proper irc client
<czajkowski> irssi++
<directhex> 80s? you youngsters. i'm listening to 30's
 * imexil is currently upgrading to beta ... why on earth ETA 3 hours when a fresh install takes 15 min
<imexil> and it's not the download speed that's in the way: http://www.speedtest.net/result/1822877267.png :-D
<directhex> imexil, because a fresh install works by copying the cd's disk image to a hard drive, which is a relatively cheap operation computationally, whereas an upgrade needs to call dpkg on 2500 or so packages, where each operation is io and cpu intensive
<directhex> a debian-installer based "alternative" fresh install is similarly slow
<imexil> :-/
<directhex> you asked, i answered!
<directhex> TEAMWORK!Â¬
<daubers> \o/
 * BigRedS still doesn't understand why apt can't download while dpkg is installing
<BigRedS> Well, no, I can see why it works like that because I've written things like that. I just wish it started installing the first package while it downloaded the second
<popey> what if the internet connection breaks?
<popey> you are left with half upgraded system
<daubers> popey: btrfs to the rescue \o/
<BigRedS> I was more thinking when you do apt-get install <loads of things>, but yeah. I suppose slow enough that things stay sane would be good, but a fair whack of work to do
<BigRedS> Oh, no, this is definitely still '90s :)
<daubers> BigRedS: Hit the B*witched yet?
<BigRedS> daubers: that's on the standard office playlist
<BigRedS> unless it's been taken off again...
<daubers> heh
<BigRedS> we've a shared spotify playlist which I keep throwing 90s pop at
<BigRedS> and it keeps getting removed
<popey> â¹  spotify
<s-fox> Heil
<s-fox> :)
<popey> Greetings.
 * gord grumbles at spotify for not working yet everyone else saying its sooo good
<s-fox> Hey popey , how is the  upgrade going?
<popey> just started
<popey> 15 mins to download 2346 packages
<s-fox> What is she running at the minute?
<popey> Acer Aspire Revo, Atom CPU, nVidia ION GPU, 2GB RAM, 160GB hard disk
<gord> don't run the open source drivers on that ion chip, nasty texture leak will bite you
<gord> although maybe its been fixed in 12.04, i doubt it
<popey> yeah, nvidia binary all the way
<directhex> FREEDOM HATERS
<popey> Yes?
<popey> But it's okay now, nVidia are joining the Linux Foundation, so that's fine.
<MartijnVdS> à² _à² 
<bigcalm> Freedom confusers!
 * MartijnVdS bought a Sempron 145 + Asus barebone this week.. with integrated "Radeon 3000", which supports Unity 3d \o/
 * popey steals MartijnVdS eyes
<popey> à² _à² 
<popey> \o/
<popey> set it so  O _ O does à² _à² 
 * MartijnVdS has /lod for that
<MartijnVdS> Êâ¿Ê
<MartijnVdS> à¹_à¹
<popey> ooo you bugger
<popey> Êâ¿à² 
<popey> \o/
<MartijnVdS> ;)
<bittin> o_O
<seeker> X_x
<MartijnVdS> à¹_Ê
<jpds> -.-
<bigcalm> A Clockwork Orange
<bittin> *_*
<seeker> T_T
<bittin> bigcalm: downloaded that and watched with a friend like 2-3weeks ago
<czajkowski> popey: http://www.businessandleadership.com/fs/img/news/200907/rs-426x288/odlums.jpg
<popey> hah
<gord> î¿_î¿
<MartijnVdS> gord: are those Ubuntu logos?
<popey> hah, they are
<gord> looks better in a non monospace ubuntu font ;)
<MartijnVdS> â¥â¿â¥
* popey changed the topic of #ubuntu-uk to: Welcome to #ubuntu-uk! http://ubuntu-uk.org | This channel is publicly archived http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Mailing List http://tinyurl.com/uukml | Support Guidelines http://tinyurl.com/uuksupport | Meeting TBA #ubuntu-uk-meeting | î¿\o/î¿ AWESOME î¿\o/î¿
<bittin> :D
 * czajkowski stabs popey 
<bittin> this is why i like this channel
<directhex> rock 'n' roll! \m/(^_^)\m/
<bittin> backing up my phone to change rom
<directhex> i hate freedom so now i run windows phone 7
<Pheetard> hi all
<Pheetard> i've been meaning to start spending time on irc when i DON'T have a tech support issue...but today is not that day.
<DJones> Morning all
<bittin> Hello Pheetard and DJones
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<s-fox> Hello
<brobostigon> hello s-fox
<s-fox> How're you doing?
<brobostigon> s-fox: not bad, sniffly nose, otherwise fine, and you?
<Pheetard> so as far as i can figure out, via google and bugtrackers, i seem to have a laptop (specifically the GPU, although a LONG conversation on bugtracker seemed to say it was a BIOS or kernel issue)that just doesn't get along with oneiric
<s-fox> I am glad it is friday brobostigon , it has been a long week :)
<popey> Pheetard: what gpu?
<brobostigon> s-fox: :)
<Pheetard> it's an emachines d620, the GPU is a radeon X1250 (which i think makes it an r600 or r690, i've been banging my head against this for so long now that strings of numbers are starting to lose their meaning)
<Pheetard> i read over a thing on bugtracker about this exact issue, and they figured it out (through some sort of magic involving bisecting kernel builds) to be an issue with the laptop's BIOS and irq's
<Pheetard> which has been fixed upstream in kernel 3.2
<s-fox> My basement cat is probably the laziest thing ever - http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/6150/4f59e36cec8d83059200000.jpg
<popey> awwwww
<popey> cute
<Pheetard> so i got the 3.2 kernel, and installed the latest gallium3d drivers from the xorg-edgers ppa (i now realise that being right on the bleeding edge of graphics driver software is not how you get gaming performance out of wine, and i'm in the process of un-doing all the ppa faffing about i've done)
<s-fox> popey,  I got to sleep in too this morning, the boss allowed it :)
<popey> âº
<s-fox> lol
<s-fox> Or rather wasn't up at 6am to wake me up. haha
<Pheetard> basically, i've had two issues with playing games since switching back to ubuntu. firstly, i generally get really terrible DRI performance, natively (which the gallium ppa drivers (or atleast SOME ppa gallium drivers, it might not have been the xorg-edgers ones) had actually solved until i got cocky and grabbed the very latest updates that came out this morning) and secondly, wine seems to have some sort of problem with mouse cursors in di
<Pheetard> rectX applications
<Pheetard> firstly, to get me back to "clean" oneiric, what i need to do is remove all the PPA lines from /etc/apt/sources.list, then install and run ppa-purge, is that right?
<popey> no Pheetard
<Pheetard> oh, i see, i need the ppa enabled to purge its packages. my mistake.
<popey> do ppa-purge first
<Pheetard> ppa-purge xorg-edgers running now
<Pheetard> i think what really freaks me out about oneiric (having been away using windows since win7 went public beta, around Maverick or Natty)  is how little use anything i remember is. synaptic's not installed by default, nor is aptitude, and i was always encouraged, back when i flitted between debian and ubuntu from week to week, to always prefer aptitude over apt-get (for reasons that were never made clear, just the grown-ups in #ubuntu and #de
<Pheetard> bian insisted t was better somehow.
<directhex> aptitude has a better dependency resolver, and tracks orphans
<Pheetard> i see
<BigRedS> where, IME, "better" = "drunk"
<Pheetard> but yeah, my point is, not to sound like a slackware user or anything, it sort of worries me that you don't need to learn any linux to run linux anymore.
<BigRedS> No, but you still *can*
<BigRedS> which is enough of a compromise for me :)
<Pheetard> yeah, i don't really mind it being made easier, i just need to remember not to take any 2-3 year breaks, because apparently everything gets replaced by much easier ways of doing things while i'm not looking.
<BigRedS> haha
<BigRedS> except grub2
<BigRedS> that was invented to confuse you
<Pheetard> i remember spending 3 days trawling  man pages and package repos trying to figure out how to mount an iso as a virtual drive, only to have my little brother come along and google "linux equivalent of daemon-tools" and find a simple explanation and GTK gui for loopback mounting. i feel like new users will miss out on the frustrating learning curve.
<Pheetard> the only reason i tried linux in the first place was because my hard drive died, and i still wanted to have a computer while i saved up my pocket money for a new one.
<Pheetard> ubuntu didn't have a liveCD at the time, this was 2003, i think. the closest thing was Knoppix, which was cool and all, but i couldn't make it do anything exciting, so i switched to Dyne:Bolic, not realising that a from-the-ground-up distro with no discernable package manager or release schedule was basically choosing 'hard mode'
<directhex> ubuntu didn't exist in 2003
<directhex> first release was 4.10
<Pheetard> aw, pish. "ppa-purge xorg-edgers" has killed my virtualbox modules for 3.2 =( oh, well, i guess i won't be playing with backtrack or testing windows 8 for the next couple of weeks.
<Laney> does aptitude know about multiarch yet?
<gord> would be so cool if i could throttle applications network usage in a similar fashion to controlling the volume of applications in pulse
<gord> someone go make that ;)
<MartijnVdS> gord: android can do that already I think
<MartijnVdS> tc + iptables/mark would do the job
<gord> i really don't care on android
<bigcalm> Just booked the w/c 16th July as holiday! Means we can relax after the RAT :)
<BigRedS> the whole week?
<bigcalm> The whole week
<bigcalm> Doesn't mean that we'll be on the RAT for the whole week
<Laney> means the hangover will last so
<bigcalm> I should book my RAT tickets
<bigcalm> Where's my credit card?
<directhex> who's an apple user in here, and wants to buy an itunes Â£15 credit card we are never going to use?
<Pheetard> it just occurred to me that ppa-purge won't have gotten rid of the drm kernel modules i built from git a couple of hours ago.
<Pheetard> i hope it wasn't them that killed my rendering performance
<andylockran> hey all
 * TheOpenSourcerer has also booked his ticket for the RAT.
<popey> yay
 * TheOpenSourcerer has had an expensive morning booking stuff on-line...
<TheOpenSourcerer> Posh Hotel in Stratford. Tickets to the RSC, Real Ale Train :-)
 * popey has had a morning of telling pikeys to gtfo our drive
<MartijnVdS> popey: more than once?!
<TheOpenSourcerer> Oooh - there was a tweet the other day about a dodgy van and pikeys.
<TheOpenSourcerer> "Tarmac your drive love?"
<MartijnVdS> Whoa:
<MartijnVdS> > Spoke to Element14 re RaspberryPi order. They are expecting stock mid June/July. LOL. APAC region has 55,000 backorders.
<MartijnVdS> https://twitter.com/#!/rhoaste/status/178094751613071360
<MartijnVdS> and that's just apac
<popey> and thats just farnell
<MartijnVdS> And that, yes
<mungojerry> MartijnVdS, 55,000...whoah, nice work
<mungojerry> they could have avoided the mistakes if they had manufactured in the UK..
<bigcalm> Not at the price they wanted
<mungojerry> wasn't it a combination of price+size of order+speed?
<mungojerry> and tax issues
<bigcalm> Money
<mungojerry> but now delays have been introduced.
<bigcalm>  :)
<gord> its easy to play captain hindsight ;)
<bigcalm> In hindsight, I shouldn't have stayed so late at the LUG meeting on Wednesday. Yesterday evening I slept from 8.30pm
<s-fox> I just got an abiword file emailed to me from someone who is a microsoft windows xp  user :-)
<gordonjcp> s-fox: heh
<gordonjcp> that's, uhm
<gordonjcp> entertainingly baroque ;-)
<s-fox> Okay, now I am concerned... it is a cv. Nothing like making it easy for employers...
<s-fox> *shrug*
<imexil> So now I'm fresh on 12.04 I wonder if one can switch off the sticky behaviour on a multi screen setup when moving from one screen to the next one.
<mattt> wewt, friday!@
<ali1234> imexil: you can turn it right down to zero
<ali1234> with CCSM
 * imexil looks
<imexil> in which of the plugins would I find the setting?
<ali1234> unity
<ali1234> experimental tab
<ali1234> launcher reveal edge responsiveness 5
<ali1234> launcher reveal pressure 1
<ali1234> launcher edge stop overcome pressure 3
<ali1234> pressure decay rate 1
<ali1234> edge stop velocity 10
<ali1234> then it won't be anywhere near as annoying
<imexil> thanks ali1234
<imexil> \o/
<ali1234> while you;re there, you can also turn of hud
<ali1234> key to show hud -> disabled
<ali1234> that's on behaviour tab
<ali1234> you can also disable windows key from doing anything as well
 * imexil wonders what a hud is
<popey> tap alt
<popey> its that
<ali1234> it's that horrible thing where you use drop down menus by doing a global text search
 * popey covers gords ears
<popey> er, eyes
<ali1234> so i recommend also "key to show launcher" -> disabled
<imexil> ali1234: I get the feeling you like to deactivate almost everything of unity ;)
<ali1234> then go into desktop wall plugin, bindings, and set the workspace switcher back to ctrl-alt
<imexil> already done that
<ali1234> then go into ezoom plugin and reenable the zoom in/zoom out on windows-button 4/5
 * imexil is confused that suddenly there is a <primary> key
<ali1234> dunno what that means
<imexil> well instead of <control><alt>Left it now says <control><primary><alt>Left
<ali1234> never seen that before
<ali1234> after last update it got set to shift-windows or something
<imexil> unfortunately the alt+ctrl+KP4 or 6 windows resizing by toggeling 1/3 1/2 2/3 bug of 11.10 is still present :(
<imexil> i.e., it does only 1/2 and no toggeling
<ali1234> another thing i don't user
<imexil> Well any way, I'm much less annoyed now by unity thanks to you
<popey> the <primary> thing is a GNOME 3 thingf
<popey> they renamed the control key
<imexil> so how come it got into the unity setup?
<imexil> bug?
<popey> because unity is based on GNOME 3
<popey> so we inherit what they did
<popey> good and bad âº
<imexil> of course
<imexil> but still this looks very strange: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/151762/Screenshot%20from%202012-03-09%2017%3A18%3A53.png
<popey> yup
<popey> welcome to the unfinished 12.04
<zleap> how do you export impress files as flash, i can't find anything in the help system
<bigcalm> popey: so you've pushed your mum onto 12.04?
<popey> ya
<bigcalm> popey: does she a) know? b) know it isn't stable yet?
<popey> meh
<bigcalm> Heh, bit of fun :)
<imexil> popey: I can live with that :) Was just wondering
<TheOpenSourcerer> er zleap on OOo I have an option under export that says "Macromedia Flash (swf)".
<zleap> yeah found that
<zleap> sorry i asked and was looking at the same time
 * gord would join in to #ShowYourDesktopFriday  but it would just reveal how big a nerd he is
<bigcalm> Humm
<s-fox> I am going for a run. See you all later :)
 * bigcalm bandwagon jumps
 * daubers passes scorn at O2 UK
<jacobw> evening
<brobostigon> evenuing jacobw
<jacobw> hey :)
<jacobw> how's going?
<brobostigon> jacobw: not bad, various aches and pains, otherwise not bad. and you?
<jacobw> i'm tired today, too much to do, not enough time
<brobostigon> :(
<apacheuk> evening everyone
<jacobw> hey apacheuk
<apacheuk> jacobw: hows it going
<jacobw> ok
<jacobw> you?
<apacheuk> not bad trying new irc client for android, its quite in here tonight
<jacobw> yeah, it's quiet
<MartijnVdS> Quiescent
<jacobw> that's barely a word
<Laney> mmm naps
<MartijnVdS> http://i.imgur.com/JVeS4.jpg
<gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: :-)
<jacobw> lol
<jacobw> beep
<MartijnVdS> beep?
<brobostigon> meep
<MartijnVdS> woop
<brobostigon> weep
<jacobw> beep, beep, beep, beeeeeep
<jacobw> bbc pips ftw
<MartijnVdS> jacobw: should we call an ambulance?
<jacobw> i'd rather you didn't
<Laney> mmm carbonara
<MartijnVdS> carabinieri?
<popey> meep
<MartijnVdS> popey: http://www.lettersofnote.com/2012/03/scientifically-yours.html
<popey> nice
<MartijnVdS> Speaking of "meep" :)
<Myrtti> oh my gawd I want a tea mug with a biscuit pocket!
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: You mean biscuit pockets you can hang off the side of a mug?
<MartijnVdS> I gave those to my sister for her birthday
<AlanBell> http://www.gadgets.co.uk/item/DUNKMUG/Dunk-Mug-with-Biscuit-Holder.html
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: ooh
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell, Myrtti: http://www.holycool.net/2011/05/lilli-mini-bag-for-mugs.html
<bigcalm> Myrtti: http://sweet-station.com/blog/2011/06/lilli-mini-bags-for-mugs/
<bigcalm> Hah, trying to find the right search terms is a pain
<bigcalm> Close, but not quite what I was looking for (my mum has something similar put much more plain, and possibly from Lakeland)
<bigcalm> But, how about this, Myrtti: http://www.google.com/imgres?start=172&um=1&hl=en&client=ubuntu&sa=N&channel=fs&gl=uk&biw=1293&bih=725&tbm=isch&tbnid=TdKqMf41JPg8LM:&imgrefurl=http://www.toxel.com/inspiration/2009/01/20/24-modern-mugs-and-creative-mug-designs/&docid=XsQrXj61CVhDdM&imgurl=http://www.toxel.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/creativemugs09.jpg&w=450&h=392&ei=RHxaT9mDJcSp8QPq3-yTDw&zoom=1&iact=rc&dur=294&sig=103062356307769766
<bigcalm> 535&page=9&tbnh=161&tbnw=185&ndsp=24&ved=1t:429,r:9,s:172&tx=131&ty=48
<bigcalm> Oh, ffs
<bigcalm> http://www.toxel.com/inspiration/2009/01/20/24-modern-mugs-and-creative-mug-designs/, 4th image on the page
<Myrtti> ooh ooh, aran cables knitting mug
<Myrtti> oh dear.
<Myrtti> I want all of them.
<Myrtti> is it only me or is the beeb30 page horrible?
<Myrtti> with Â£78 a pop one would have expected a bit better quality tickets
<Myrtti> I mean, webpages
<dwatkins> toxel is a great site, bigcalm :)
#ubuntu-uk 2012-03-10
<AlanBell> morning all
<AlanBell> I have a Mum&Dadbuntu to build today
<MartijnVdS> \o/
<MartijnVdS> what kind of hardware?
<richardperkins> Morning all
<AlanBell> http://www.ebuyer.com/337174-zoostorm-pentium-sandybridge-no-os-desktop-pc-7873-1051 this one I think
<richardperkins> I know its early but wanted to seek some advice before the children surface
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: Nice. I just built a new Granbuntu machine with an Asus barebone + Sempron 145
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: http://ie.asus.com/Barebone_PC/V_Series_2530L/V6M4A3000E/ that barebone
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: + 4G RAM, + Sempron 145, + some SATA disk I had lying around, + some DVD player I had lying around
<MartijnVdS> Total price: â¬140
<AlanBell> nice
<AlanBell> the base unit is at the post office, I have to go pick it up in a bit
<AlanBell> so what applications should I put on it?
<AlanBell> I am putting precise on it
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: aisleriot
<MartijnVdS> Yours is Sandy Bridge? That should have enough power for Google Earth. You might want skype (or stick with Google talk's video bits, or G+ hangouts?)
<AlanBell> dad has an iPad as well
<AlanBell> probably put some games and stuff on it
<AlanBell> google earth doesn't need much power, runs fine on my sons single core 1.4ghz laptop with intel graphics
<AlanBell> there is an ebook application people rave about
<AlanBell> caliber or something
<MartijnVdS> calibre
<MartijnVdS> It works great but the UI is horrible
<AlanBell> looks OK to me
<OmNomDePlume> What's the best thing to eat the morning after you've been so drunk you've puked your guts out?
<MartijnVdS> OmNomDePlume: Bread with chocolate sprinkles + large glass of milk
<christel_> morn
<MartijnVdS> \o
<ging> bacon
<ging> and coke zero
<MartijnVdS> Anything with lots of water, really.
<popey> morning
<MartijnVdS> \o popeyman
<MooDoo> morning all
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: hello
<OmNomDeBonBon> Thank you MartijnVdS, I will try that.
<popey> how on earth do you do a slider in glade?
<dipizzle> hello
<dipizzle> how nice to finally be on an irc channel
<AlanBell> hello dipizzle
<popey> AlanBell: you've played with glade haven't you?
<popey> know how to do a slider like the one in the appearance dialog where you make the launcher bigger/smaller?
<AlanBell> I think that is a scale widget
<popey> ahh, it may be called "Scale"
<popey> thanks
<popey> the 'orientation' thing was off screen
<AlanBell> yeah, they are vertical by default
<AlanBell> popey: how is trublr these days?
<popey> :D
<popey> working on it
<AlanBell> should I install it on this PC I am going to give to Mum & Dad?
<popey> no
<AlanBell> this is the first install I have done for ages without orca running!
<cotterall> morning
<apacheuk> morning
<czajkowski> aloha
<MooDoo> morning
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<AlanBell> right, that is most of the cool stuff installed, 22GB used :)
<AlanBell> all it needs now is the "show my desktop to Alan" button
<marxjohnson> If I've got one byobu session nested inside another, how can I detach the nested one? If I hit F6 or C-a d it just detaches the outside one, and when i reconnect the nested one is still there
<AlanBell> C-a C-a d
<shauno> I thought it was just C-a a d.  Stacking will melt your brain eventually tho ;)
<marxjohnson> yay well one of those too just worked
<AlanBell> shauno: you are probably right
<marxjohnson> thanks!
<shauno> the C-a a gets passed to the client (the inner screen in this case) as C-a
<czajkowski> whoo RAT tickets arrived
 * AlanBell haz RAT tickets \o/
<daubers> Morning
<daubers> er... afternoon even
 * christel_ yawns
<christel_> oh i should buy rat tickets, which date did we say? july 14th?
 * christel_ pokes czajkowski and AlanBell 
<bittin> RAT as in RatholeRadio?
<christel_> rat as in real ale train :)
<bittin> ah
<AlanBell> yes, 14th July
<AlanBell> http://loco.ubuntu.com/teams/ubuntu-uk
<AlanBell> http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-uk/1603/detail/ even
<popey> \o/ beer
<christel_> mmmbeer
<Pendulum> AlanBell: are you sure you're allowed to do installs without Orca running? ;-)
<christel_> i have purchased rat tickets
<AlanBell> \o/
<christel_> \o/ indeed :D
<czajkowski> christel_: yay :D
 * popey moos from the LUG
<czajkowski> popey: be careful http://fc09.deviantart.net/fs10/i/2006/135/9/6/_quot_Death_is_coming_for_YOU_quot__by_Nikittele.jpg
<dwatkins> czajkowski: heh, that reminds me of the Warcraft II death knight which would say this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BBViA9draOs
<czajkowski> dwatkins: hah
<czajkowski> weird all my downloading of .avi file get launched straight away
<czajkowski> which is confusing if I'm doing about 3 in a god and all download at the same time
<kvarley> In gedit can I use wildcards in the find and replace box?
<kvarley> Doing * doesn't seem to work
<cotterall> kvarley: not by default but I think there are plugins
<cotterall> kvarley: I can't find a *-style wildcard one but there's a regex one here: http://halfhourhacks.blogspot.com/2008/03/gedit-regular-expression-plugin.html
<cotterall> kvarley: this one looks good too: http://code.google.com/p/advanced-find
<kvarley> Thanks cotterall
<andylockran> can anyone access this over ipv6? http://ipv6.zrmt.com/gw7mwofidd.txt
<andylockran> doing the hurricane electric certification, but it's failing and I can't understand why :d
<MartijnVdS> andylockran: is that host v6 only?
<andylockran> should be
<MartijnVdS> works fine here
<MartijnVdS> "Test File" it says
<andylockran> yeah, that;s right
<andylockran> hmm
<MartijnVdS> andylockran: maybe the other end has a negative response cached?
<MartijnVdS> (DNS response)
<MartijnVdS> is the hostname quite new?
<shauno> wget -6 url returns a 403 forbidden.  I dare say that might want to be a 2xx for a pass
<shauno> (oddly, it works fine in my browser.  but under the safe assumption their end is automated, they may be hitting the same behaviour)
<swattor> afternoon all
<DJones> Afternoon swattor
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Andy Loughran] Ubuntu  The Philosophy - http://zrmt.com/2012/03/10/ubuntu-the-philosophy/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=ubuntu-the-philosophy
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Andy Loughran] ZRMT  to Andy Loughran (www.andyloughran.co.uk) - http://zrmt.com/2012/03/10/zrmt-to-andy-loughran-www-andyloughran-co-uk/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=zrmt-to-andy-loughran-www-andyloughran-co-uk
<swattor> would anyone be interested in happy hour in brighton?
<swattor> was thinking about emailing the list to email them
<AlanBell> probably :)
<AlanBell> so we have reading in a couple of weeks, then wolverhampton in April (waiting for a pub on that one I think)
<AlanBell> there is interest in Southampton too
<swattor> what's the best thing to do to try and move it along a bit?
<AlanBell> pick a pub and a date :)
<AlanBell> maybe one in May?
<andylockran> ansfro]sefgj[eg
<s-fox> o/
<MooDoo> hello s-fox :)
<s-fox> Hello MooDoo :)
 * s-fox has the lucky blue socks on today :D
<s-fox> and NO green. Haha
<s-fox> How are you MooDoo?
<MooDoo> s-fox: at work but ok thank you :)
<s-fox> Working on a weekend... :(
<MooDoo> s-fox: yeah i have to do it....shifts....in tomorrow too.
<s-fox> booo
<MooDoo> just what i was thinking
<s-fox> We're winning at the rugby :D
 * s-fox celebrates
<MooDoo> s-fox: it's a start, only just begun though
<s-fox> To be honest, alba need to score a try or 2 to have a good chance of winning
<s-fox> 3 points here and there isn't going to win the match
<MooDoo> nopw
<s-fox> 6-0 !!!!!!!!!!!
<s-fox> :D
 * s-fox thinks lucky socks are working
<czajkowski> s-fox: *grin*
<s-fox> czajkowski,  *glares*
<czajkowski> *SMILES*
<s-fox> *whatever*
<MooDoo> s-fox: loosing now?
<MooDoo> oh yeah lol
<czajkowski> MooDoo: oi oi :)
<czajkowski> whoo 3 tries :D
<s-fox> brb
<s-fox> Back, booted into android
<czajkowski> whoo TRY!
<czajkowski> booo
<dwatkins> ack!
<s-fox> yay
<s-fox> Maybe someone will score this half czajkowski :-)
<czajkowski> ask and you shall receive :)
<czajkowski> whooo another try for Ireland - try #4 for ireland :D
<s-fox> Czajkowski congrats on the win
<czajkowski> cheers :)
<s-fox> Think 1st half was better imo
<Easton> can you put a background image when in console
<dwatkins> Easton: not easily, but you can put a background on the terminal application
<Easton> is that in side of gnome and kde
<dwatkins> yeah, if you use them, or XFCE etc.
<Easton> Thank you for the help I'll have to stick with black background then.
<dwatkins> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=41709 Easton
<dwatkins> looks like the site is broken, unfortunately
<dwatkins> still, it's possible, just not easy to find the installation files
<bigcalm> Evenin' all
<popey> pip pip
<bigcalm> Goodness, not expecting life
<popey> âº
 * popey is watching films whilst upgrading machines
<bigcalm> You appear to be inflicting 12.04 upon many family members
<popey> yup âº
#ubuntu-uk 2012-03-11
<Azelphur> what's the major changes? I'm still on 11.10
<popey> surprised how well it runs on these eee 900s
<popey> oooh family guy
<bigcalm> I'm home alone for the weekend. It's odd being in bed without Hayley here
<bigcalm> Lulling myself to sleep with some QIXL
<popey> nn  bigcalm
<popey> wifey has gone out for the night, i may do the same
<bigcalm> nighty
<jacobw> morning
<MooDoo> morning all
<MartijnVdS> \o
<AlanBell> morning
<MooDoo> morning alan
<christel> morning :)
<MooDoo> morning christel
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<MartijnVdS> hi brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning MartijnVdS
<popey> morning
<brobostigon> morning popey
<MooDoo> morning popey
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo
<MooDoo> brobostigon: hello there :) how's your day going?
<brobostigon> MooDoo: nothing much upto now, just playing some minetest, and thinking about the pub this afternoon and sitting in the sun. and you?
<MooDoo> working lol
<brobostigon> :(
<brobostigon> no sitting in the sun, at the pub, :(
<MooDoo> brobostigon: nope working this weekend and next
<daubers> Morning
<brobostigon> ohwell.
<MooDoo> yeah
<brobostigon> morning daubers
<popey> gord: I might take a couple of gamecube controllers and usb adapters, hdmi and displayport adapter so we can play some mame stuff in the rooms âº
<gord> niiice :D
<popey> wonder if I can get 4 controllers and then do 4 player gauntlet or super sprint
<gord> x220 only has three usb ports - can bring a spare gamecube controller though
<popey> i have a usb hub
<popey> good tip!
<popey> wish the wavebird worked with the usb adapter but it doesnt
<popey> never quite figured out why
<SuperEngineer> o?
<SuperEngineer> ;)
<SuperEngineer> Been asked if I want to buy PC [spec as per http://paste.ubuntu.com/878802/] but seller doesn't know what price to charge [I *am* a friend which it's awkward I suppose].
<SuperEngineer>  What would be a *fair* price to offer him?  Ideas?
<popey> SuperEngineer: offer 50 quid and see what he says?
<SuperEngineer> I did just that - he grimaced.- My instinct says Â£80 - but - heck - it *is* *my* wallet! :)
<SuperEngineer> [[but I'm glad we agrred on my initial offer popey
<popey> my usual way to deal with this is look at how much they go for on ebay, take away postal cost..
<popey> i.e. look at completed auctions only
<SuperEngineer> hmmm - good idea, thanks
<SuperEngineer> ebay stuff seems to be Â£80 or there abouts... so that's my *fair* offer methinks - thanks popey
<Laney> SHORTS DAY!
<SuperEngineer> Currently listening to http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/podcasts/radio4/fricomedy/fricomedy_20120309-1900a.mp3 - worth it even if just to learn about the nuclear ducks ;)
<penguin42> Laney: The clothing or the class of drinks?
<MartijnVdS> yes :)
<SuperEngineer> ...can't wait for Bikini day !
<SuperEngineer> [but *not* me!]
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: but.. but.. YOU PROMISED
<SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: doh!
<SuperEngineer> - if you insist
 * SuperEngineer rushes to shops to buy his first bikini
<MooDoo> ewwwwwwwwww lol
<directhex> SuperEngineer: link no worky
<directhex> Laney: no shorts. i am PAINTING today!
<MartijnVdS> Most great painters drank a lot
<SuperEngineer> directhex: whoops - link worky goody - if you remove the "]", I didn't put a space after the address & the bracket!  double doh!
<SuperEngineer> directhex:  for what it's worth... http://paste.ubuntu.com/878802/
<OmNomDePlume> MartijnVdS, what do you think of Royston Drenthe?
<MartijnVdS> OmNomDePlume: who what?
<OmNomDePlume> MartijnVdS, aren't you Dutch?
<MartijnVdS> yes.. and I know where Drenthe is.. but "Royston"?
<SuperEngineer> wha-hooo-aaah - wha-hooo-aaah...  stereotype alert
<MartijnVdS> Ah he's some kind of football player. I have NO idea :)
<OmNomDePlume> I thought all Dutch people knew all Dutch footballers.
 * OmNomDePlume 's mind is blown
<MartijnVdS> à² _à² 
<OmNomDePlume> Jajajajaja.
<MartijnVdS> Time for fresh tea
<bigcalm> Hello, he..
<bigcalm> llo
<SuperEngineer> gosh it's quiet - guess they're all out trying out their new bikinis
<OmNomDePlume> Mankinis, surely? This place is a sausagefest.
<directhex> ... so?
<MartijnVdS> As if men can't wear bikinis!
<directhex> or tankinis
<directhex> or one-piece swimsuits
<cotterall> my sausage was shot off in the war
<christel> that must have hurt
<MartijnVdS> cotterall: Which one?
<christel> which war or which chipolata? :p
<MartijnVdS> yes.
<cotterall> christel: :)
<christel> AlanBell: IT IS A SUNNY DAY WHY ARE WE NOT IN A PUB GARDEN?
<christel> (i figure he is more likely to respond if i caps)
<MartijnVdS> christel: maybe he is
<MooDoo> i'm no
<MooDoo> not
<christel> MartijnVdS: he probably is, trying to avoid me :(
<MooDoo> christel: avoid you?  never ;)
<christel> :P
<MooDoo> christel: love you really xx
<christel> aww i love you too!
<MooDoo> :D
<christel> \o/
<SuperEngineer> AlanBell: because some of us have had to "promise" to catch up on outstanding admin - including e.g. expiredv security clearance [whoops]
<SuperEngineer> Just realised the similarity between my boss, his boss- and a monkey: when shouted at, they take it out on everybody else [& whine as well!]
<SuperEngineer> [Darwin was right]
<SuperEngineer> re my last: [for AlanB... read christel  as addressee
 * SuperEngineer dreams of sunny pub garden whilst looking at boring security clearance renewal
<andylockran> hey all
<andylockran> This ubuntu for android - when is a beta around / available ?
<andylockran> I'm looking to get a tablet in a few weeks, any recommendations ?
<MartijnVdS> Make sure it runs ICS
<MartijnVdS> (or has an update coming)
<andylockran> MartijnVdS: I have ICS on teh Samsung S2 - will that be compatible also
<andylockran> Where do you find this info?
<MartijnVdS> andylockran: On the googles :)
<andylockran> :(
<andylockran> my google skills must be faltering
<MartijnVdS> Xoom will get ICS, for example
<AlanBell> christel: hi
<AlanBell> so, with rhythmbox, how do I sync an existing iPod without trashing all the stuff on it?
<MartijnVdS> You don't sync it, you drag new stuff to it?
<MartijnVdS> You can copy everything on the ipod to your library, then turn syncing on.. ?
<andylockran> MartijnVdS: Can you provide a link please?
<MartijnVdS> andylockran: well there's http://blogs.computerworld.com/19341/android_40_upgrade_list
<MartijnVdS> which seems to be up to date to Thursday at least :)
<andylockran> MartijnVdS: meant about the andrubuntu thingy..
<andylockran> http://www.ubuntu.com/devices/android
<MartijnVdS> andylockran: ah, sorry, didn't know you meant that :)
<christel> SuperEngineer: awww
<christel> AlanBell: :D
<SuperEngineer> ..& for those who forgot:  Happy [60th] Birthdayâ¦ and, sadly, R.I.P,  Douglas Adams  - long live HHGTTG
<christel> :)
<andylockran> thanks for all the ghoti
 * penguin42 hands SuperEngineer a pangalactic gargleblaster
<DJones> Evening all
<SuperEngineer> penguin42:   wot - no peanuts?
 * SuperEngineer cuddles towel
<penguin42> it's good to know where your towel is
<popey> andylockran: no
 * bigcalm peeps in
<bigcalm> Peep peep
<Azelphur> Anyone noticing issues with namecheap today?
<Azelphur> my domain (azelphur.com) only seems to resolve intermittently
<stevepdp> it's not just you Azelphur.
<stevepdp> they were the victims of a DDoS attack.
<Azelphur> oh, where's the news about that?
<Azelphur> I looked around on twitter and stuff and saw nothing
<stevepdp> http://twitter.com/namecheap
<stevepdp> "Our DNS was hit by a large DDoS attack causing some delays in response time. This has been mitigated and DNS will return to normal soon."
<Azelphur> ah
<daubers> Evening
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Gareth France] Tottenham Court Road/Bracknell  10th/11th March - http://cliftonts.co.uk/cubuntu/?p=127
<dwatkins> I gather pastebin was DDoS'ed recently.
<dwatkins> [again]
<OmNomDePlume> What would anybody have against Pastebin?
<lazarus_> why pastebin lol
<OmNomDePlume> Maybe pastebin.ca has beef with pastebin.com?
<dwatkins> yeah, I thought the same - in fact, I even said as much on twitter, and had a very brief reply from someone directing me to a shady website about it
<AlanBell> isn't that one of the fave communication methods of anonymous?
<AlanBell> stick at statement on pastebin and tweet the URL
<dwatkins> effectively DDoSing them?
<AlanBell> dunno really, I was just suggesting a reason someone might have something against a pastebin operator
<dwatkins> ah yes, I see what you mean AlanBell
<StevenR> hrrmph. I want a better way of listening to music, so I can store it all on my big box, and listen to it via whatever, and control it via whatever... I've installed mpd, but I can't find a suitable client.
<dwatkins> I hear ncmpcpp is good, StevenR.
<dwatkins> AlanBell: the blog which I was directed to back when pastebin got DDoSed last July has been deleted.
<StevenR> dwatkins: thanks, but that only solves the control part... I want a way to listen to it too
<dwatkins> StevenR: oh, I thought that also played what you selected
<StevenR> dwatkins: oh.. it can recieve the mpd stream too?
<dwatkins> StevenR: I don't know, sorry
<AlanBell> StevenR: there is tangarine which is a mono based server thing that goes with banshee
<AlanBell> there is another one which I got working with rhythmbox
<gordonjcp> StevenR: I used to use banshee and minidlna
<gordonjcp> but rhythmbox doesn't support dlna
<gordonjcp> that's okay though, since it doesn't support mp3 or ogg playback either
<gordonjcp> so now I just use djmount and audacious
#ubuntu-uk 2013-03-04
<popey>         500 http://archive.canonical.com/ raring/partner amd64 Packages
<AlanBell> I have held broken packages apparently so it is refusing to do anything
<popey> ii  skype-bin      4.1.0.20.0-0 i386         client for Skype VOIP and instant
<popey> do you have that magic dpkg setting which allows you to install i386 stuff?
<popey> alan@deep-thought:~$ apt-cache search skype-bin
<popey> skype-bin - client for Skype VOIP and instant messaging service - binary files
<popey> does that work?
<AlanBell> I have an issue with ekiga being held back and   libloudmouth1-0 libpt2.10.9 installing and uninstalling
<AlanBell> when I autoremove and dist-upgrade
 * AlanBell removes ekiga
<AlanBell> apt-cache search skype-bin works fine
<AlanBell> http://paste.ubuntu.com/5583810/
<popey> and apt-get install skype-bin:i386 works?
<popey> something squiffy on your machine
<popey> I have all of that stuff
<AlanBell> yeah, I had it last week too
<AlanBell> aptitude says: http://paste.ubuntu.com/5583828/
<AlanBell> aptitude's second solution is to remove 499 packages freeing up 3GB of space and installing nothing new \o/
<popey> your machine looks ill
<popey> apt-cache policy libx11-xcb1
<popey> where'd that come from?
<popey> er, apt-cache policy libx11-xcb1:i386
<AlanBell> http://paste.ubuntu.com/5583836/
<popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/5583837/
<popey> what if you try to install that package manually with apt-get?
<AlanBell> woah!
<AlanBell> http://paste.ubuntu.com/5583839/
<popey> wtf
<popey> can you pastebin your /etc/apt/sources.list
<popey> and all /etc/apt/sources.list.d/*.list ?
<AlanBell> http://paste.ubuntu.com/5583842/
<popey> deb http://gb.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ raring-proposed restricted main multiverse universe
<popey> you shouild _not_ have that enabled
<AlanBell> http://paste.ubuntu.com/5583843/
<popey> that _may_ be the cause
<popey> can you remove it and update
<AlanBell> gosh, proposed does seem a bit brave
<popey> no human is supposed to use it
<popey> in the development release
<AlanBell> I am mostly human, so I will remove it
<AlanBell> sudo apt-get update and dist-upgrade, didn't do much and still can't install stuff
<popey> same issue with skype?
<AlanBell> yeah, just installing ekiga back again so generally installing things is OK
<AlanBell> basically all the :i386 stuff is upset with me, but proper 64bit things are fine
<popey> does dpkg know you can install i386
<popey> dpkg --add-architecture i386
<popey> then update
<AlanBell> dpkg --print-foreign-architectures returns i386
<popey> ok
<popey> sudo apt-get --reinstall install libx11-xcb1:i386
<popey> that works forme
<AlanBell> that offers to remove 346 innocent bystanders for me
<popey> hmmm
<popey> how odd
<AlanBell> The following NEW packages will be installed libx11-xcb1:i386 phonon-backend-null
<AlanBell> who is phonon-backend-null?
<popey> not installed here
<AlanBell> I can install it, dunno why it wants to bring that in
<popey> something squiffy here
<popey> first thing I'd do is backup/move your /etc/apt/sources.list.d/*.list out the way
<popey> and then sudo apt-get update
<popey> then see if you can install it, so you're down to just the main archive
 * AlanBell tries that
<AlanBell> same problem
<popey> how odd
<AlanBell> think I got bit by something in -proposed
<popey> we need to figure out what came in from proposed
<popey> apt-cache policy | grep proposed
<popey> does that return anything at all?
<AlanBell> no
<AlanBell> from the aptitude output I think it might be libqtwebkit4 and libx11-6
<popey> what versions of those do you have?
<AlanBell> libx11-6 Installed: 2:1.5.0-1ubuntu1
<popey> libqtwebkit4  Installed: 2.2.1-4ubuntu1
<popey> libx11-6: Installed: 2:1.5.0-1
<AlanBell> I just removed libqtwebkit4 and I am readding it
<sebsebseb> popey: where's the next OGG Camp? :D
<popey>   libx11-6 |  2:1.5.0-1 |        raring | amd64, armhf, i386, powerpc
<popey>   libx11-6 | 2:1.5.0-1ubuntu1 | raring-proposed | amd64, armhf, powerpc
<popey> yes, rmadison libx11-6 confirms
<popey> sebsebseb: no idea
<sebsebseb> popey: around the same time of August again I guess?
<popey> pass
<sebsebseb> oh I thought you helped decide stuff ike that
<popey> I have had no conversations about it
<popey> i do sometimes
<popey> unlikely to this year though
<sebsebseb> oh how come?
<popey> way too busy with Ubuntu Phone & Tablet...
<sebsebseb> oh I see to  help organise OGG Camp as well you mean?
<popey> yeah
<popey> too busy
<sebsebseb> popey: well we'll see how that goes
<sebsebseb> Android could do with some good competiton
<popey> indeed
<sebsebseb> in fact I was thinking about it earlier a bit how they say there's like 700 thousand or so apps for it
<sebsebseb> in the Google app store, but
<sebsebseb> 1. we won't know what most of those apps are I guess since to many
<sebsebseb> 2. on my phone anyway,  I coudn't seem to search the app store that well really
<AlanBell> popey: is there anything I can do to downgrade libx11-6 or do I just wait for whatever transition is sitting in proposed to land?
<popey> yes
<popey> apt-get install packagename=version
<popey> sudo apt-get install libx11-6=2:1.5.0-1
<sebsebseb> popey: it's not quite like Synaptic or Software Centre or something like that,  you just search really well and :)  yes can search, but not quite the same
<popey> or sudo apt-get install libx11-6/raring
<popey> sebsebseb: i rarely search the app store
<popey> I tend to install stuff when I hear about an app on a blog post or news article
<AlanBell> ok, that is going to rip out some mildly annoying stuff (like compiz) but I think I can get it all back again
<popey> rip out or downgrade?
<AlanBell> remove
<sebsebseb> popey: right I see yeah,  well I got a new phone so
<popey> so add compiz/raring
<popey> AlanBell: hang on...
<AlanBell> too late ;)
<sebsebseb> popey: well not new for that much longer asi n the phone itself, nearly time for Galaxy S4's now
<sebsebseb> would have got a Nexus probably, but weren't on sale at the time so
<popey> AlanBell: http://paste.ubuntu.com/5583900/
<popey> do that
<sebsebseb> Nexus 4
<popey> it reverts all unity/compiz packages back to /raring
<popey> its handy if you have added manky PPAs
<popey> It'll be quite refreshing to have an Ubuntu phone with only a few apps :D
 * AlanBell installs skype
<sebsebseb> popey: yeah in a way there can be to many apps as well maybe
<sebsebseb> popey: I mean like I said earlier 700 thousand apps or whatever for Android
<sebsebseb> uhmm we won't even know what most of those are
<sebsebseb> Ubuntu Phone needs Skype idealy to though :d
 * AlanBell runs skype \o/
<popey> all sorted?
<sebsebseb> AlanBell: sure, but not on Ubuntu Phone ?
 * AlanBell likes having awesome repositories and an awesome popey to help fix them \o/
<popey> heh
<sebsebseb> reminds me I Found out about a good Skype altenraive the other day
<sebsebseb> or well looks like it from site :d
<AlanBell> sebsebseb: no, not on the phone
<sebsebseb> open source yeah
<sebsebseb> turns out they had a stand at FOSDEM to, but don't think I went there
<sebsebseb> to the stand
<AlanBell> I don't like skype much but I wanted the last 30 days of chat history
<AlanBell> night all o/
<sebsebseb> AlanBell: popey Not tried it yet msyelf, but I guess this is probably quite a good open source Skype and so on alternative :d https://jitsi.org/
<sebsebseb> for just voice there's mumble as well
<popey> nn AlanBell
<popey> with a name like Jitsi it makes me think it will be a java app
<sebsebseb> popey: yep bingo it is
<sebsebseb> and it had other names in the past as well
<sebsebseb> if you read the site
<popey> ew
<popey> also, no updates for nearly a year
<popey> https://download.jitsi.org/jitsi/debian/
<sebsebseb> popey: yeah, but they had a stand at FOSDEM 2013
<sebsebseb> and there was a blog post or two from this year
<sebsebseb> didn't know about the stand untill after
<sebsebseb> didn't know about the project untill after that event to
<sebsebseb> yep I went
<sebsebseb> popey: and last year, I didn't know about the Open Suse beer for like one euro untill after the event to, ah well
<sebsebseb> maybe they had some this year, but didn't end up at that stand and a few others, since the timing of stuff
<popey> but it's SIP
<popey> SIP is no cometition to Skype
<sebsebseb> yep it does SIP and XMPP
<sebsebseb> and it can support Skype it seems going by featureas
<sebsebseb> it's a open source program
<popey> doesn't even start here
<popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/5583923/
<sebsebseb> popey: Java isn't exactly liked by quite a lot of people now it seems
<sebsebseb> espeically since Oracale owneded them it seems
<kvarley> How do I find out what audio chipset I have?
<kvarley> lspci | grep Audio returns some generic stuf
<kvarley> I know I have Intel HDA but not what version
<MartijnVdS> kvarley: /proc/asound/cards should help
<MartijnVdS> kvarley: and /proc/asound/cardX/codec#Y
<kvarley> Realtek ALC887-VD
<kvarley> MartijnVdS: Thanks :)
<jacobw> morning
<einonm> Morning!
<diplo> Morning all
<JamesTait> Happy Monday, everyone! :-D
<dwatkins> woot
<dwatkins> no, wait...
<NET||abuse> hi folks, i'm trying to enable an sftp only user on an ubuntu box
<NET||abuse> I'm having trouble getting it to work.
<creakybore> one way is to change the shell - look at something like https://github.com/scponly/scponly/wiki
<creakybore> or rash at http://pizzashack.org/rssh/ which is perhaps easier
<creakybore> and cleaner as the rssh shell is included (damn auto correct rssh into rash)
<NET||abuse> well i've followed a generic route of modifying /etc/sshd_config to use Subsystem sftp internal-sftp
<creakybore> ah damn autocreater
<NET||abuse> then i add the Match Group sftponly  with the chroot stuff and ForceCommand internal-sftp
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<creakybore> go here --> http://pizzashack.org/rssh/
<NET||abuse> but the user has no home directory, ahh, i need to explicityly tell the system to use a cert for that user.
<creakybore> hang on
<NET||abuse> how do you do that for auser without a home.
<creakybore> go http://troy.jdmz.net/rsnapshot/ scroll down to Restricting the key (not vert)
<creakybore> not certificate even
<NET||abuse> yeh, the sshd_config has PasswordAuthentication no    so i have to use a cert for all users.
<NET||abuse> I have the cert already.
<NET||abuse> it's an aws instance
<creakybore> not certificate, a private/public key
<NET||abuse> yeh, what i meant
<NET||abuse> i have that already.
<creakybore> makes no difference is AWS, VM or local bare-metal - same principle
<NET||abuse> yup,
<NET||abuse> just reading that segment
<creakybore> so in restricting the key, you would put
<creakybore> the full pathname of the SCP binary
<creakybore> sftp
<NET||abuse> this is client side only, i know how to connect to the server with the key
<NET||abuse> sftp -I /pth/to/key.pem
<creakybore> well, ssh would be
<directhex> i've never done certificate-based auth with ssh
<directhex> only key-based
<creakybore> ssh -p XX -i key.file
<NET||abuse> oppollogies, lower i
<creakybore> scp -P xx -i key.file
<NET||abuse> :
<creakybore> sftp -p xx -i key.file
<NET||abuse> yeh, i just get a message saying Connection closed
<creakybore> did you set correct permissions on user home dir and .ssh folder and files?
<MartijnVdS> Connection closed by foreign host? Could mean your host isn't in /etc/hosts.allow (or IS in /etc/hosts.deny)
<NET||abuse> just reading /var/log/auth.log
<NET||abuse> on the log on server i just get     Disconnecting: Too many authentication failures for madgex [preauth]
<creakybore> do this from the account or root
<NET||abuse> user is madgex
<creakybore> {as user}
<creakybore> cd ; ls -ld . .ssh .ssh/authorized_keys
<creakybore> chmod go-w . .ssh .ssh/authorized_keys
<NET||abuse> creakybore: this on the server?
<NET||abuse> or on my local machine?
<MartijnVdS> eys
<creakybore> yes on the server, in the users home directory
<NET||abuse> on server, well, madgex user has no home directory
<creakybore> you should of made a .ssh sub directory with their key
<NET||abuse> hmm, unless the upload directory is considered the home for this user.
<creakybore> no
<creakybore> the user key file (must be called authlrized_keys) must go in to /home/user/.ssh
<creakybore> and must have correct file permissions
<NET||abuse> yeh, but htere is no /home/madgex/ directory
<MartijnVdS> creakybore: or whatever other directory is specified in /etc/ssh/sshd_config
<NET||abuse> MartijnVdS: how would i specify the key for this user or all users under the Match Group block to use the key?
<NET||abuse> via the /etc/ssh/sshd_config
<NET||abuse> ?
<creakybore>  what is the users home directory as per /etc/passwd
<MartijnVdS> NET||abuse: I don't think that's easy.. sshd still checks permissions
<MartijnVdS> NET||abuse: what do you want to do?
<MartijnVdS> !xyproblem
<NET||abuse> madgex:x:1001:1001::/var/opt/updatesys/upload:/bin/sh
<MartijnVdS> http://mywiki.wooledge.org/XyProblem
<creakybore> ok so under /var/opt/updatesys create .ssh and put authorized_key in that - you can have more than one entry (i.e. user key) in authorized_keys
<NET||abuse> MartijnVdS: madgex is intended as an sftp only user, is member of group sftponly and under sshd_config i have Match Group sftponly     ChrootDirectory %h and ForceCommand internal-sftp
<creakybore> cd /var/opt/updatesys ; ls -ld . .ssh .ssh/authorized_keys ; chmod go-w . .ssh .ssh/authorized_keys
<MartijnVdS> If you don't want the user to be able to modify the ssh authorized keys, you'll have to do some more interesting things with sshd_config
<MartijnVdS> man sshd_config + some ServerFault browsing might be in order
<NET||abuse> been doing alot of that,
<NET||abuse> seems very surface level information available from the examples there.
<NET||abuse> creakybore: i think updatesys/upload is actually the user home, so it would have to put .ssh into upload
<MartijnVdS> NET||abuse: the manual has all the puzzle pieces, if you want to do something complex, you'll have to LEGO it together yourself ;)
<NET||abuse> unless i move the home for that user back to /var/opt/updatesys then in sshd_config ChrootDirectory %h/upload
<NET||abuse> then the sftp login won't see the .ssh directory but auth will pick it up
<NET||abuse> hopefully.
<MartijnVdS> yes but then you can't ssh as "normal" user anymore, can you?
<MartijnVdS> it should only apply to users in a specific group
<NET||abuse> don't want to ssh as normal under sftponly user
<MartijnVdS> sure, but can you have per-user sshd configs? because if you put that in sshd_config, ssh'ing as "yourself" or "root" will chroot to ~/upload as well
<NET||abuse> hmm, how to modify user home directory.
<MartijnVdS> NET||abuse: vipw
<NET||abuse> MartijnVdS: it's under a Match Group sftponly       block
<NET||abuse> so this is all only applied if your a member of that group
<NET||abuse> so i only have this one user as that
<MartijnVdS> NET||abuse: ah, didn't know those existed.. must be new :)
<NET||abuse> i think you can do Match User madgex     forexample also.
<NET||abuse> articles showing that sshd_config entry going back years. doesn't seem new
<MartijnVdS> apt-get install vim-shiny ;)
<NET||abuse> shiney?
<MartijnVdS> yeah... every file it edits ends up looking shiny and new again!
<NET||abuse> uhh, typo.. shiny,, is that a firefly vim ?
 * BigRedS has uefi
 * BigRedS wants his bios back
<directhex> BIOS. because all booting computers in 2013 should rely on having a complete implementation of a 16-bit Intel 8086 in the silicon, to run their 16-bit 8086 assembly boot loader
 * popey increments the Program Counter
<BigRedS> directhex: Not saying it's *better*, but it does reliably boot ISOs I've downloaded off the net
<directhex> BigRedS, so set your system to boot via BIOS emulation, in the UEFI setup
<directhex> since most ISOs aren't valid EFI images. yet.
<BigRedS> nah, I've found that the raring daily CD sort-of boots, so I'm going with that for now
<BigRedS> Given UEFI I feel I should probably use it, since it's going to be one of those things where I should be used ot all the inconsistencies and daft ideas
<SuperMatt> so, passwords
<SuperMatt> I'm thinking keepass + ubuntu one
<SuperMatt> any downsides to this method?
<diplo> SuperMatt: I use that, apart from it's Dropbox in my case
<diplo> I sync to my phone aswell
<diplo> And use keepassdroid on there
<SuperMatt> also: how do I make keepass not look ugly on my desktop?
<diplo> As in?
<directhex> rewrite it to not be a winforms app
<directhex> keepassx is one such project
<SuperMatt> I see
<diplo> There are other apps that use Keepass DB if you want to try them, can't remember them off hand though
<kvarley> Can you not style keypassx via a qt theme?
<directhex> yeah, but that's the point
<directhex> keepassx is qt
<directhex> keepass is winforms
<MartijnVdS> but .. but ..
<MartijnVdS> keepassx should be plain xlib
<diplo> ah i use keepassx
<MartijnVdS> qeepass or qtkeepass should be qt!
<MartijnVdS> an keepass should be KDE
<popey> I use a plain text document to store my passwords
<popey> gpg encrypted of course
<mungbean> SuperMatt: don't store your key on ubuntu one too
<shauno> I use post-its
<MartijnVdS> popey: I do that.. Vim's gpg plugin makes it quite transparent
<MartijnVdS> shauno: under your keyboard?
<mungbean> I use keepassX + password + private key
<shauno> MartijnVdS: *everywhere*.  I swear they breed when I'm not home
<mungbean> the keepass kdb can stay on u1
<mungbean> but not the key
<SuperMatt> mungbean: oh, I won't
<popey> yeah, my password file is in u1
<SuperMatt> popey: how do you sync with your phone? u1 android client?
<popey> ios u1 client
<popey> android is for losers ;)
<SuperMatt> pfft
<NET||abuse> got that thing working by bending to the wills of ssh, moved user account to their own normal /home directory and symlinked a upload directory from their home to the updateasys/ directory,
<mungbean> poor troll attempt popey :)
<directhex> now now, that's not fair. android and ios are *both* for losers. /me flees
<MartijnVdS> directhex: yeah, S40 OS 4 LIFE
<NET||abuse> so it's all contained in their home, and the system's schedule will pull stuff out of /home/madgex/upload  to be used,, now, setting correct mask for sftp user so other schedule running user can access uploaded files..
<davmor2> Morning all
<MartijnVdS> \o davmor2
<NET||abuse> think i'm finally recovered now, a full week later after phpuk13
<NET||abuse> was like a zombie all last week and even this weekend.
<MartijnVdS> PHP is bad for you? :P
<NET||abuse> lol,, ahh was a really fun conference
<NET||abuse> i got mega drunk, I had beers, several
<NET||abuse> But all was in good spirit, nothing untoward happened.
<NET||abuse> just waiting on video releases now from the talks. I was volunteering on tracks so couldn't see what i wanted.
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :) What's happening today?
 * Laney accidently wrote "xnox" on his notepad instead of "Xsession"
<bigcalm> Exciting
<xnox> Laney: just wait for your girlfriend to start questioning what's on your mind ;-)
<Laney> mmm latvian men
 * Laney coughs
<xnox> Jono doesn't know how to pronounce xnox, and hence said 'X.N.O.X.' on google on air hangout.
<MartijnVdS> eggs-nogs?
<xnox> MartijnVdS: yeah, sounds very much like that.
<czajkowski> xnox: wondered was he talking about you
<MartijnVdS> Or more like "snogs" with an X?
<czajkowski> cant be more than one of you :)
<xnox> Laney: to be fair you are excused, i did promise latvian beer to you.
<popey> \o/ Latvian Men
<popey> late to the latvian men party, sorry.
<Laney> there's plenty enough to go around
<popey> \o/
<popey> I cooked a joint of pork overnight in the slow cooker
<popey> it is completly nommy
<Laney> recipe pls
<directhex> i have burritos for dinner, made with my yummy home-made carnitas
<directhex> which are slow cooked, but not in the slow cooker
<popey> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7dYj4utgLq4
<popey> a bit like that
<Laney> that is one huge shoulder
<directhex> http://forums.hexus.net/hexus-hotpot-cookery-discussion/211986-carnitas-recipe-stolen-reddit-do-now.html#post2151910
<BigRedS> Hm. Just installed raring, installer worked fine but now I've booted in it's not detecting my keyboard or my mouse...
<BigRedS> Though I can't think how to interact with this in suh a way as to fix it...
<directhex> buy an OCZ brainwave-based controller, use that
<diplo> anyone use a Reddit App on their Android phone, if so can you recommend one.. seems a fair few :)
<mgdm> diplo: I just go to i.reddit.com
<diplo> I actually hadn't tried that, new phone that works, will take a look now ta
<BigRedS> I use bacon reader
<BigRedS> can't recommend it having not used anything else, but it seems fine to me
<diplo> ah that's in the top 2, watching vid now
<neuro_> bonga bonga
<neuro_> ooh, i have an underscore
<neuro_> that's not good
<neuro_> hmm, someone in the ukraine is using my nick
<neuro_> tut tut
 * MartijnVdS watches the banhammer
<popey> TheOpenSourcerer: feeling better?
<TheOpenSourcerer> not much
<TheOpenSourcerer> Still coughing and sniffing
<TheOpenSourcerer> rib hurts
<TheOpenSourcerer> big toe is black
<TheOpenSourcerer> back aches
<TheOpenSourcerer> Other than that I'm fine.
<TheOpenSourcerer> :-D
<MartijnVdS> big toe is black? Frostbite?
<TheOpenSourcerer> lol - nope - nearly ripped the toe off putting on a ski boot
<AlanBell> TheOpenSourcerer is considerd properly ill when it is so bad that a curry and a scotch doesn't fix it
<MartijnVdS> ouch
<TheOpenSourcerer> (nail)
<neuro> <IdleBot> Penalty of 0 days, 07:35:00 added to your timer for nick change.
<neuro> damn
<MartijnVdS> IdleBot?
<neuro> #idlerpg
<neuro> it's an rpg you play by idling on irc
<MartijnVdS> à² _à² 
<sebsebseb> hi TheOpenSourcerer
<sebsebseb> AlanBell: you going to online UDS tommorow?
<AlanBell> probably not, but I will catch up on some interesting recordings afterwards
<sebsebseb> AlanBell: I took part in two of the old ones remotly or maybe more a bit, but got to register for this one and uh
<redtape-renegade> sebsebseb: I take it you were at FOSEDM '13 this year ?? I went last year, how was it IYHO ??
<sebsebseb> redtape-renegade: what's IHYHD ?
<sebsebseb> IYHO even
<sebsebseb> oh
<sebsebseb> In My Humble Opinion ?
<MartijnVdS> IMNSHO
<sebsebseb> MartijnVdS: In My Not So Humble Opinion ?
<MartijnVdS> ack
 * Laney is edgy waiting for a call from evans to say that he can go test ride his new bike
<Laney> have had one call from ecotricity trying to sell me green energy and one from my letting agent
<popey> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2013/03/hp-launch-ubuntu-all-in-one-pc-for-349
<sebsebseb> popey: how can you link to that unoffical source :D  your meant to only be linking to http://planet.ubuntu.com and stuff like that :d  JOKE
<popey> you're not the first person to say that actually
<sebsebseb> well I was saying as a joke anyway JOno has been commenting on there for eaxmple and Jorge Castro
<popey> as does Mark Shuttleworth
<sebsebseb> actsauly Jorge Castro guest starred to post about Unity for a bit
<sebsebseb> oh not seen Shuttleworth post on there
<popey> many of us comment there, it's a valuable resource for getting news on what's new and shiny
<sebsebseb> yeah, but so is webupdate8d
<popey> some of us even learn new stuff about ubuntu
<popey> yeah, there's a lot of sites like it, like iloveubuntu
<popey> i guess those are the three main ones
<sebsebseb> GNOME has a good one now days to :)  http://worldofgnome.com
<popey> Error 137 (net::ERR_NAME_RESOLUTION_FAILED): Unknown error.
<sebsebseb> uh .org actualy
<sebsebseb> http://worldofgnome.org
<popey> when you say "good" you mean "full of utter crack"?
<sebsebseb> nope been  quite some good blog posts on there
<popey> http://worldofgnome.org/waka-waka-this-time-for-canonical/
<popey> makes no sense
<sebsebseb> popey: oh not seen that one
<sebsebseb> popey: ok that's just coincidence I mention/recommend here, on the same day, they seem to put some junk up about Canonical hmm
<dogmatic69> is it possible to use variables in .ssh/config?
<sebsebseb> popey: from a skim therough seems like someone got into their site or something
<sebsebseb> popey: When I said good, I meant ones such as this one: http://worldofgnome.org/gnome-classic-not-classic-all/
<sebsebseb> popey: or this one: http://worldofgnome.org/shell-3-8-features-ctrl-will-never-escape-overview/
<sebsebseb> http://worldofgnome.org/welcome-to-gnome-3-8-flintstones-mode/
<ali1234> i think that blog might be lost in translation
<davmor2> popey: you mean OMG!Ubuntu isn't the official new channel for Ubuntu?   Are you sure...... ;)
<mgdm> I still hate that site's name
<popey> heh
<davmor2> mgdm: You mean you still see the  OMG! bit
<mgdm> Yeah
<mgdm> I avoid links that go to it, so I've no idea what the content is like, but I have an idea
<sebsebseb> mgdm: yep not so keen on the name either, but works well for a fans site realy
<ali1234> fluff pieces about upcoming ubuntu features basically
<sebsebseb> mgdm: generaly the smaller not so popular one is better: http://webupd8.org
<sebsebseb> mgdm: espeically if on about comments, rather than blog posts themselves
<mgdm> ah ha
<sebsebseb> popey: so do I really have to register to take part in online UDS probably a bit tommorow?  me take part in online UDS?  ,but I moved away to another distro didn't I?  Yeah, but still keep an eye on some of the Ubuntu community stuff and such here and there.  Quite general to Desktop Linux :)
 * sebsebseb hasn't logged into his Launchpad account since like 2005 or something, so has a feeling he may not be able to anymore
<popey> we don't delete old lp accounts
<sebsebseb> true, but  depending on what email it's set up with
<sebsebseb> I may not have access to that email address anymore
<sebsebseb> I have a feeling it's under one I may not have access to anymore
<sebsebseb> hi zleap
<zleap> hi
<sebsebseb> popey: also when I looked the other day seems some new system will repleace Launchpad accounts
<davmor2> sebsebseb: where did you get that from?
<sebsebseb> davmor2: what the new account thing?
<davmor2> sebsebseb: yeap
<popey> login.ubuntu.com
<mgdm> popey: do you know if it's possible to buy a laptop from Lenovo with Ubuntu preinstalled?
<sebsebseb> some page when I was looking about if I could log back in etc
<ali1234> er... yeah, so do i have to register just to watch the streams and be on irc?
<sebsebseb> ali1234: bingo that's what I am wondering
<popey> mgdm: pass
<davmor2> popey: LP has been using it's own skin to USSO for ages
<ali1234> whatever, i'll just register. not like it costs anything.
<sebsebseb> ali1234: with the old  remote side of UDS, it was just turn up in IRC, and watch or hear the online stream
<sebsebseb> and see the pads on a site
<ali1234> you had to be granted pad access
<ali1234> but i never really found that bit to be of any use
<sebsebseb> ali1234: I think once they let anyone edit, but probably got changed after
<ali1234> yeah you only had to ask for permission and most active lp peple probably already had it though teams
<sebsebseb> ah yes I edited a pad once for some reason I Think, but then my changes got removed soon after
<davmor2> ali1234: it also allows you to tag yourself as attending sessions not sure if that is still in place though now
<ali1234> well i'll just be drifting in and out i guess
<sebsebseb> popey: so if I can't have access to the email address my old luanchpad account is under anymore, I Got to get a new one really?
<popey> sebsebseb: launchpad support can help
<sebsebseb> popey: may be under the hotmail one I still use rarely for  instant messaing maybe,  and  to see the  spam heh heh
<sebsebseb> that goes quite a lot of years
<sebsebseb> ,but may be under this other one I lost access to as well so
<sebsebseb> goes back quite a lot of years, above
<popey> ask in #launchpad
<sebsebseb> popey: yeah I'll see if I can get into it first
<popey> if you need something changed/reset
<sebsebseb> online UDS could be slighlty interesting yeah
<sebsebseb> plus seeing Richard Stallman doing a talk later this month
<sebsebseb> and some other stuff giong on this month, March  should be alright :d
<ali1234> are there really people who have not seen that talk??
<directhex> urgh, rms talk :/
<directhex> has he ever updated it since the 80s?
<sebsebseb> about copyright and community
<sebsebseb> the one I am seeing
<ali1234> directhex: not really no
<directhex> "assign all your copyright to the fsf, and go cry if you decide you're unhappy with how we deal with you"?
<sebsebseb> apparnatly meant to see him talk at  least once really
<sebsebseb> so people say basically
<ali1234> yeah i do not regret seeing the talk
<sebsebseb> apparnatly some people get insulsted from the audiance after not long to
<ali1234> there are always a few hecklers
<ali1234> in the qa section they always ask the same questions and he is quite well prepared for it now
<sebsebseb> oh
<sebsebseb> ali1234: well should be fun  :)
<directhex> i'd rather go to the pub with people who have contributed something to foss in the last 2 decades then watch rms talk. but maybe i just don't like the man.
<sebsebseb> directhex: if it wasn't for RMS lots of stuff
<ali1234> well i wouldn't go see him again
<kvarley-laptop> I can't mount a partition on a laptop. dmesg | tail output here http://paste.ubuntu.com/5585451/ Is this down to a partition failure?
<sebsebseb> well like I said at least once
<sebsebseb> meant to see him apparnatly
<ali1234> but i can go to the pub anytime
<directhex> kvarley, no, that's physical disk failure
<kvarley-laptop> directhex: I'm currently chatting to you from xubuntu running off a partition on the drive =/
<kvarley-laptop> directhex: Any way to test if I can recover any data from it?
<popey> could be cable failure
<directhex> kvarley, you could force it to be usable by forcing the mount to use a backup superblock (extX seeds them every few tens of thousands of blocks), but it's definitely a physical error
<ali1234> and of course you are going to meet up with other foss developers who are not RMS in the after session drinking, if that's your thing
<directhex> yeah, could be cable. could be disk
<popey> i had that on a disk which wasn't seated properly
<sebsebseb> ali1234: he'll be the next famous or famous enough person  in the opensource/freesoftware world I have seen do a talk or met :d
<kvarley-laptop> popey: It's in a laptop that hasn't moved for a while
<ali1234> sebsebseb: other than perhaps the top 5 kernel devs... i don;t think there are any others more famous than RMS... or maybe i should say infamous
<sebsebseb> ali1234: how about the SystemD guy for example? who also started Pulseaudio  he's starting to get famous/infamous now
<kvarley-laptop> directhex: How do I force mount using old superblocks?
<sebsebseb> ali1234: saw his talk at FOSDEM this year :d
<ali1234> sebsebseb: the one who's name you can't remember? :P
<ali1234> sebsebseb: but yes, agreed, he is getting famous :)
<directhex> kvarley, the sb=n option, passed to mount, uses the superblock on n instead of 1
<sebsebseb> oh yeah Ubuntu doesn't use SystemD it uses Upstart instead, but most other distros are using SystemD now and most use Pulseaudio
<sebsebseb> ali1234: I remember his name, it's just hard to spell it etc
<sebsebseb> Lennart pottering ?
<ali1234> close
<directhex> sebsebseb, dumpe2fs can be asked to tell you valid superblock numbers
<kvarley-laptop> directhex: So mount /dev/sdXX /mnt sb=X ?
<sebsebseb> directhex: wrong person?
<sebsebseb> ali1234: got to see do a talk or talk to some other famous or famousish  people at FOSDEM to thsi year, that was good :)
<kvarley-laptop> directhex: found a guide, thanks
<directhex> directhex@barnabas:~$ sudo dumpe2fs /dev/mapper/sda6_crypt | grep -i superblock
<directhex> dumpe2fs 1.42.5 (29-Jul-2012)
<directhex>   Primary superblock at 0, Group descriptors at 1-11
<directhex>   Backup superblock at 32768, Group descriptors at 32769-32779
<MartijnVdS> To buy a 6D, or not to buy a 6D
<kvarley-laptop> directhex: The first few superblocks and the last few don't work
<MartijnVdS> popey: Have you seen this Kickstarter? http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/cantripgames/story-war-the-storytelling-party-game
<MartijnVdS> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6e9uxwAZzI
<MartijnVdS> popey: ^ that's some people playing a round
<popey> ooh, looks fun
<popey> \o/ backed
 * MartijnVdS too
<MartijnVdS> popey: also, http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1234131468/machine-of-death-the-game-of-creative-assassinatio
<BigRedS> Is there an easy way that I can stop using "Ubuntu online accounts" and just use whatever Gnome normally uses?
<BigRedS> Oh. The gnome thing's still there. Nifty
<BigRedS> Ah, no, this is something else. Arse
<ali1234> you have to mess with .desktop files
<ali1234> the items in the control center are just .desktop files
<ali1234> and all .desktop files have this "onlyshowin" property which can hide them from others. so that the unity configuration doesn't appear under gnome for example
<BigRedS> oh, so ther emight still be the original gnome one knocking around?
<BigRedS> ta
<ali1234> yeah
<czajkowski> BigRedS: Y U NO LIKE ONLINE ACCOUNTS!
<czajkowski> eh
<BigRedS> because they're all offline
<BigRedS> and I can't make any of them go online
<BigRedS> and I can't think what problem this is trying to solve
<BigRedS> but it's doing a decidedly less good job than the gnome one did
<BigRedS> Bah. I'll just use gajim.
<BigRedS> Hooray for an integrated DE
<ali1234> yeah i couldn't actually figure out what online accounts is supposed to do either
<ali1234> i mean i put my accounts in it
<ali1234> and then whenever some software wanted to use them it just asked me again
<BigRedS> Could you get any of them online?
<ali1234> i dunno. how?
<BigRedS> I get it asking if Ubuntu can use them, I say 'yes' then it waits a bit and asks again
<ali1234> i authorized it
<ali1234> and now it's there
<BigRedS> oh. It always seems to fail auth on mine
<BigRedS> for all of my xmpp accounts
<ali1234> but it just doesn't do anything
<BigRedS> but, usefully, doesn't tell me why
<BigRedS> oh, so yours never actually ends up usable?
<ali1234> i don't know *how* to use it
<ali1234> i have just added an account into an accounts dialog
<ali1234> there is no way to know what it is supposed to do
<BigRedS> yeah, I guess it might be that it's working as designed and I've just not worked out what I'm supposed to do next
<AlanBell> I think that is the thing that makes tweet notifications happen
<AlanBell> and it might get used for some lenses but I can't tell which
<BigRedS> Oh. I'm just trying to set up an XMPP account
<ali1234> oh i see if you click on the account it tells you what applicatons use it
<ali1234> and i don't use any of them at all
<BigRedS> aha. empathy-accounts works
<BigRedS> and seems to sidestep the ubuntu thing
<ali1234> for me it opens the same dialog
<ali1234> AlanBell: online accounts doesn't have twitter as an option for me
<ali1234> it has facebook though
<ali1234> the only one of these i actually have an account on is google
<ali1234> and that integrates with a lens for searching google docs, shotwell to upload to picassa, and empathy for google talk
<ali1234> ah i assume this is the gnome one
<ali1234> it's set up evolution to use google calendar and contacts
<ali1234> that's actually useful
<BigRedS> Hehe. my work XMPP account is working but it doesn't seem to be authing with Gmail or facebook
<BigRedS> which is productivity-enforcing, I suppose
<ali1234> evolution has totally failed to sync anything useful though
<ali1234> all it has managed to get is people's emails and none of their other information at all
<ali1234> so that's pretty pointless
<ali1234> evolution contacts is awful. i think it's actually broken here. it can't be supposed to be like this
<BigRedS> does any of evolution work?
<ali1234> dunno. it's crashed now
<popey> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2013-March/036776.html
<directhex> it's a good job canonical has the resources to rewrite the last few decades of X.org from scratch before the end of may!
<directhex> wheeeeeee
<directhex> (note: may contain sarcasm)
<BigRedS> haha
<BigRedS> We need more unfinished software
<BigRedS> that's the big thing I've been missing recently
<bigcalm> directhex: with the slightly larger window of October launch
<bigcalm> Good luck Canonical!
<mgdm> yeah... 'blimey'
<bigcalm> Just saw a crane glide past. Good end to the day I think
<directhex> i don't think the smartest display server engineers on the planet could succeed at what they're proposing in the timescales proposed. and canonical does not employ all those aforementioned "smartest engineers"
 * bigcalm checks the calendar for 1st April
<neuro> directhex: lol
<neuro> directhex: thing is, you're not wrong
 * popey checks directhex for associations with a competing product
<neuro> tis a big job
<directhex> popey, okay, disclosure, we have at least one of those engineer on staff, working on wayland/weston
<directhex> but the a1 problem here imho is drivers
<neuro> HE'S A WITCH, BURN HIM!
<directhex> are AMD meant to make drivers for both x.org and mir?
<popey> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MirSpec#Mir_on_HW_Supported_By_Closed_Source_Drivers
<directhex> mmmhmmmmmmm
<neuro> he has a link for everything, that man
 * popey finds a link to a website which just has the text "yes, yes he does"
<neuro> :)
<neuro> i wanted to register a .de domain the other day for a domain hack
<neuro> turns out anyone can register a .de domain
<neuro> as long as the admin contact is in germany
<neuro> :P
<mgdm> I have a .is for similar reasons
<mgdm> they are *phenomenally* expensive to register via Gandi, etc
<mgdm> but you can just set yourself up with a NIC handle and DIY it quite simply
<neuro> how expensive?
<mgdm> IIRC about 20 quid a year
 * popey saves http://popey.com/yes/ for later
<mgdm> I'd have to go and look it up
<neuro> wha?!?
<neuro> that's not that expensive!
<neuro> opensrs have .is for $75/yr
<mgdm> Oh, via Gandi it was like 200 quid
<mgdm> 'no'
 * neuro tuts at popey
<neuro> tables?
<neuro> really?
<mgdm> but DIY it was 20 quid
<neuro> hmm
<neuro> this is opensrs reseller rates, before markup
<popey> heh
 * neuro switched http://isitbeeroclock.com/ to bootstrap a while back
<mgdm> what advantage does Bootstrap give you over the 5 lines of CSS it'd probably take otherwise? :)
<neuro> mgdm: good grief ... you can only buy .is from gandi as a joe pleb customer if you're a Corporate Service customer, and it's Â£238/yr!
<neuro> ex vat!!
<neuro> mgdm: commonality of platform, for me at least
<neuro> since i'm using bootstrap for everything i build these days
<mgdm> neuro: yeah, hence the 'sod that, I'll register myself' bit
<mgdm> particularly as it's just for a daft side project
<neuro> totally
<mgdm> Oh, I forgot i have a .es for a comedy hack too
<mgdm> I should reinstate my outer.hebrid.es rDNS entry
<neuro> i'd toyed with setting myself up on gandi, but i'm already on as an opensrs reseller, and tho they don't have the range that gandi do, they cover most of the stuff i need
<neuro> i had a mate who wanted a .cat domain
<neuro> i had to tell him he'd need to have a page up in Catalonian within six months as part of the domain reg rules
<neuro> he gave up at that point
<neuro> Catalonian?!?!?
<mgdm> heh
<BigRedS> My brother learnt some catalan for his .cat
 * neuro facepalms himself
<neuro> i've actually been there and i can't even say the language right
 * mgdm observes that nyan.cat has a Catalan option
<neuro> it also has a Nyan option
<neuro> I wonder if there's a Nyan translation for Ubuntu ...
<neuro> wouldn't take long, I guess
<neuro> File -> Nyan
<neuro> Edit -> Nyan
<neuro> Preferences -> Nyan
<neuro> etc
<neuro> might have some usability issues though
<popey> http://samohtv.wordpress.com/2013/03/04/mir-an-outpost-envisioned-as-a-new-home/
<popey> more info
<directhex> you can only have a .cat domain as a foreigner if your site includes resources to help spread the language
<directhex> so all comedy .cat domains have a catalan translation and a link to a catalan learning site
<neuro> yeah i know, it does seem like a daft requirement if you can just punt a page up in catalan and you're sorted
<popey> When I first went contracting, I wanted a company name, Hugo came up with Pontifex, so i used that. Looked up the pontifex.it domain, you just needed to be a european resident to get it. Then the pope died, and the next day pontifex.it was grabbed by some speculative goit
<mgdm> :(
<neuro> ouch :(
<popey> i saw it pop up for sale a while later, and some german singer bought it
<neuro> i'm still desperate for the neu.ro domain
<neuro> but some guy in northern ireland bought it way before i realised it could be done
<neuro> it's been parked on the same register.com nameservers for about 14 years now
<neuro> had a glimmer of hope a couple of months ago because going to the website brought up a "customer suspended" message
<neuro> now it's an apache test page ;(
<neuro> annoying thing, register.com don't even do .ro domains any more, so no idea how they still have it
 * neuro uses zensoft.net for contracty purposes now anyway
<neuro> had that since 99
<neuro> and the co.uk since 98
<popey> when i couldn't get the pontifex.it, I got a spam mail from a domain registrar saying "Hey, pontifex.com isn't available, would you like pontifex.ltd.uk, which is?"
<popey> So i registered that with somoene else :D
<popey> "Thanks spammer!"
<neuro> no probs going through the ltd.uk reg hoops?
<neuro> or is it just "what is your company number, thanks, sorted"?
<popey> pretty much
<neuro> the last time i tried to register an ltd.uk was 1996
<popey> i also found out who had pontifex.com. they had the domain andweren't using it, was some research project.. they wanted $10K for it
<popey> "Uh, no"
<neuro> in the days of "please fax us blah blah on your corporate letterhead ..."
<popey> oh i had to do that iirc
<neuro> oof
<mgdm> I've had to do that once or twice
<mgdm> the corporate letterhead was invented in Word or similar about a minute before sending the fax
<popey> ditto
 * neuro spies on popey's company details ;)
<neuro> SIC Code: 7210, Hardware Consultancy
<neuro> popey: i didn't realise you were older than me!
<popey> hah
<popey> big four oh
 * neuro will be 39 at the end of the month
<neuro> i don't know whether or not to be depressed about that
<popey> meh, just another solar orbit++
<neuro> and more grey hairs :(
<neuro> my beard is now like 30% grey in the chin area
<popey> i haven't had a hair cut for months
<popey> it's getting silly long
<popey> my fringe reaches my chin
<NET||abuse> exit
<neuro> kurt cobain look?
<popey> no, it's all back
<popey> http://popey.com/~alan/scruffbag.jpg
<popey> neuro: ^
<popey> hmm
<neuro> Apologies, but we were unable to find what you were looking for. Perhaps searching will help.
<popey> fixed
<neuro> AHHHHHH
<neuro> THE STARE, IT BURNS
<neuro> glitterball++
<popey> âº
<ali1234> you know the problem with convergence is that converging phone, tv, and desktop is a bit like converging cake, ice cream, and an AK47
<Azelphur> that sounds like one tasty AK47
<Azelphur> I'd buy it.
<zleap> each of those devices has its own advantage when you converge them youi lose some of the key advantages,
<zleap> small screen =- portable,  = harder to type documents on
<mgdm> aaargh, how is the update manager still popping up
<mgdm> I prevented the service from starting
<ali1234> zleap: smart TV doesn't really have advantages
<zleap> ok
<zleap> why you can stream stuff etc
<ali1234> pretty much anything you do on a desktop is horrible on anything that isn't a desktop and vice versa
<zleap> iplayer works nicely on my desktop
<zleap> i csn use iplayer on a smart tv
<zleap> or internet enabled tv
<ali1234> yeah but you can't watch blu rays acceptably
<zleap> ok
<zleap> good point soi you mean tv + blue ray player is better
<ali1234> better than a desktop PC, for watching movies, yes
<zleap> sound is better,  i guess too
<ali1234> that's not really the point though
<zleap> sure you need big tv's now to really get that cinema type experience
<zleap> ok
<ali1234> phone, tv, tablet are not multipurpose devices
<zleap> good point
<zleap> i was at a google work shop the other day in a school that was pointed out tablets and typing long documents don't mix
<ali1234> in fact they pretty much all have the same two or three functions: communication, media consumption, and gaming
<ali1234> you can converge those because of this
<zleap> yeah
<ali1234> you can't converge the desktop because it is simply a tool
<zleap> as i said each of the devices has its own strong point (advantages)
<ali1234> a smart phone is just a small tablet. a smart tv is just a really big tablet
<zleap> so what you are saying is we will always need desktop computers,  despite all these reports that keep trying to predict their demise
<ali1234> it makes sense to converge these
<zleap> yeah
<ali1234> i don't know about anyone else
<ali1234> most people do not need a desktop pc
<ali1234> i do though
<ali1234> i can take or leave the smart widgets... i don't actually need them
<zleap> well for typing letters, documents having a 22" screen is nice
<zleap> for other tasks being able to see all applications at the same time is good,  programming or image editing may require having several windows open at the same time with all visable
<Azelphur> how much cash can you withdraw from the bank without photo ID?
<Azelphur> and without invoking general rage.
<ali1234> i don't really see a need to have open source software in my smart devices, because i have no intention of using them for anything other than the specific uses they are sold for
<mgdm> Azelphur: if you have your account's card, probably quite a lot
<Azelphur> yea, it's my account so I have the card, I just don't have a passport / drivers license
<Azelphur> (never been abroad, don't drive)
<ali1234> it's like Â£500 from the cash machine last time i checked
<ali1234> but it depends on which bank and which account
<Azelphur> yea, I'm talking about going in branch and withdrawing
<zleap> sorry was testing open arena on the pi
<SuperEngineer> Has Ubuntu One got a fail at the moment? Can't find any notify of it being down except "for scheduled maintenance today at 10:30 AM UTC"/ "Shouldn't last longer than 10 minutes."
<MartijnVdS> it had a fail earlier tnoight
<SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: interesting - I wonder if it's still catching up perhaps
<AlanBell> zleap: does it work well?
<ali1234> it should be "okay"
<zleap> 22" screen does yes
<zleap> oh open arena,  its slow as i have the 256 model
<zleap> but it does work,  i need to help someone at the computer club i am running get it working
<zleap> AlanBell, if I am sharing  folder with ubuntu one does it only work with other ubuntu 1 users or can the person i specify get the file without ubuntu one
<RaycisCharles> AlanBell: watching the game tonight?
<AlanBell> game?
<zleap> RaycisCharles, what game ?
<ali1234> sooooooooooo... is compiz 0.9 finally dead then?
<RaycisCharles> zleap: Villa vs City
<RaycisCharles> Man City, not their natural enemies.
<RaycisCharles> ali1234: I still see signs of life - it's spinning.
<zleap> ah
<zleap> united are i guess
<zleap> for city and west brom or wolves for er villa
<sebsebseb> ANyone watch Arrow in here? :d
 * zleap wonders if there will be any players for city in a few years having played 1000 games
<diplo> sebsebseb: o/
<sebsebseb> diplo: what you do?
<zleap> giggsy's 1000th game tomorrow
<diplo> Not watched the most recent one though so ssh
<sebsebseb> diplo: uhmm no neither have I since the pausing great idea :)
<sebsebseb> diplo: until the cable box messes up
<sebsebseb> looks like going to have to wait for the repeate
<sebsebseb> can't get into recordings and so on on there at the moment to, but that's another issue, otherwise would have probably just recorded it
<sebsebseb> diplo: or if I leave how is, may start playing eventauly
<sebsebseb> can only go so far back
<diplo> Or... other means...
<diplo> :)
<sebsebseb> when paused
<sebsebseb> diplo: nope not turning to to rrent sites if that's what you mean,  anyway it's repeated later on in the week
<diplo> ah
<sebsebseb> other stuff was crashing with it though so paused and then fas forward a advert, and paused again, which caused the problem I guess ah
<sebsebseb> diplo: probabyl run some rubbish propritary software or something on that cable box
<sebsebseb> woudn't suprisem e
<diplo> Virgin ?
<AlanBell> ali1234: I think compiz 0.9 is probably dead, along with possibly wayland and possibly Mir :/
<ali1234> wayland isn't dead
<ali1234> ubuntu probably is
<ali1234> the crazy flip-flopping reminds me somewhat of the last days of nokia
<AlanBell> well they have been working on Mir since last June
<ali1234> and nokia bought trolltech long before making Qt the development stack for their entire smartphone range
<ali1234> then 12 months later "actually, windows phone"
<sebsebseb> diplo: sure, what other cable company is there in the Uk now? right none?
<diplo> Not everyone in here is from the UK, so I don't take it for granted anymore :)
<diplo> Not got the TIVO box then?
<sebsebseb> nope that's just a rental thing
<sebsebseb> really
<sebsebseb> a bit more per month for some features not really going to need
<sebsebseb> diplo: also Tivo isn't really free software freedom respecting going by things  I read before etc
<sebsebseb> it runs LInux, but....
<sebsebseb> diplo: also I think it's quite locked down by default to
<sebsebseb> diplo: I meant with a Tivo bos you don't acstauly own the box, unlike the old ones, of course going off the service, and those old boxes will be quite useless, but yeah
<diplo> Never owned the Virgin/BY boxes though, always rented. Well apart from when they didnt collect mine so I donated to a member of this channel :)
<sebsebseb> diplo: well I don't think they want that old Telewest box for example :d  yeah got one of those here to
<diplo> Still worked fine :)
<sebsebseb> sure, but no for HD obviosuly adn things like that, but yeah
<sebsebseb> diplo: anyway UK TV sucks in general
<diplo> yeah had hd box downstairs
<sebsebseb> you know what, when I watch TV it's mainly to
<sebsebseb> watch American shows :d
<diplo> Same here, apart from a few odd shows
<sebsebseb> or the news  and things like question time and panaorma at times
<sebsebseb> occasioanl other documtary at itmes
<czajkowski> c
<sebsebseb> diplo: ,but in general it just sucks really and is a waste of time
<diplo> I just can't wait to have a streaming service that is as quick as pirated stuff
<diplo> It'll happen eventually
<sebsebseb> diplo: and is used to try and get us to think in certain ways to
<sebsebseb> czajkowski: d ?
<sebsebseb> a b c d ?
 * sebsebseb thinks maybe a cat or someting got czajkowski to put c  I don't know
<popey> AlanBell: how is mir dead?
<ali1234> nobody outside of ubuntu will touch it wit a long pointy stick
<ali1234> wayland is bad enough
<sebsebseb> ali1234: hmm?
<sebsebseb> your on about something else now it seems
<AlanBell> yeah, the CLA and existence of Wayland means that it is canonical only really
<AlanBell> however that might be enough
<directhex> well, steam for linux was a nice diversion, shame about the disappearance of 3d drivers!
<sebsebseb> Wayland was started by Redhat I thought
<sebsebseb> or someone who worked for Redhat to be more exact
<directhex> someone without a CLA
<AlanBell> started by someone who was at redhat and now is at intel
<directhex> did you watch daniels' wayland talk from lca?
<AlanBell> no
<sebsebseb> no
<ali1234> i think i might have
<ali1234> if it was the one about video
<popey> yeah, i watched that
<ali1234> "The only thing worse than generalizing from one example is generalizing from no examples at all."
<redtape-renegade> AlanBell: Replied to your post on G+.. :)
<AlanBell> :)
<Azelphur> http://store.steampowered.com/app/18300/ only 87p, seems like a good game :D
<shauno> odd, e1.12 here.  their exchange rate is way off
<Azelphur> shauno: always is with steam
<popey> \o/ "You already own Spectraball"
<Azelphur> hehe
<ali1234> is there a metapackage to install KDE that is slightly less insane than kubuntu-desktop?
<ali1234> but will still give me a full KDE
<AlanBell> maybe just install kate?
<AlanBell> that should pull in all the dependencies to run most applications, or do you want more than that?
<ali1234> i wwant like the panels and stuff
<popey> kdebase?
#ubuntu-uk 2013-03-05
<redtape-renegade> morning .. a foggy one at that !
<BigRedS> Firefox keeps popping up a window entitled 'JavaScript Application' and carrying the message "TypeError: window.flagCache[curip] is undefined"; anyone know what a probably cause is and how I can make it go away?
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: don't go to that site ;)
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: turn off javascript debugging?
<MartijnVdS> maybe it's an extension? (adblock? ghostery?)
<BigRedS> Nah, I've had it since before installing any plugins. Is JS debugging a toggleable thing?
<yarinse> hello, since I can extract The serial number of the volume of a dvd from a terminal, which is the instruction?
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: I don't know.. F12?
<BigRedS> Oh, I don't even have the web developer toolbar and whatnot installed
<BigRedS> Could install it and see if I can find the source that way I suppose
<BigRedS> but that sounds like work :/
<JamesTait> Good morning, friends! :-D
<BigRedS> Good Mornintg!
<hoover> hi folks
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<davmor2> Morning all
<brobostigon> morning davmor2
<redtape-renegade> Is everyone asleep today on this #channel, or are we just crazy as crumpets ?? :::: http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/blogs/world-of-sport/craziest-basketball-finish-ll-ever-see-135710563.html
<davmor2> zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
 * mgdm stacks things on top of the sleeping davmor2 
 * popey puts davmor2's hand in a bowl of warm water
 * davmor2 throws the warm water over popey and attaches an emac strip to one of his eyebrows for good measure
<redtape-renegade> What's this can of shaving cream for ?
<davmor2> redtape-renegade: so you can have a shave?
 * redtape-renegade is going for the pirate look today .. GGrrr
<directhex> redtape-renegade, it's a fake can of shaving cream. you can open it up & place some dinosaur embryos.
<czajkowski> leave davmor2 alone
<czajkowski> nobodys allowed to break him on me
<czajkowski> or my sanity will further deplete
<dogmatic69> Anyone know of a command line tool like minicom but can be used without opening and 'app'?
<dogmatic69> minicom is sort of like htop, a shell app. Need to send serial like 'foobar -file baz.txt -baud 9600 etc.
<redtape-renegade> I did actually spend an hour on skype with a guy I met from Mass. (the state) .. explaining how he could make money with his game engine even thou. it is GPL V3.0... Anyway...
<redtape-renegade> Here's the track o'the day .. COME ON TEAM !! http://open.spotify.com/track/6JFCimsnygZkPtBSd0l4iJ
 * redtape-renegade looks forward to tearing into his choc. bunny .. this 31st of March .. :)
<einonm> dogmatic69: what are you trying to achieve, exactly? Is it so you can script the thing?
<dogmatic69> ye
<dogmatic69> minicom works great, but now want to automate this process.
<dogmatic69> its just sending files to a plotter.
<einonm> I've used minicom to do exactly that in the past - by using the python expect module (pexpect)
<dogmatic69> oh
<einonm> perhaps you should check that out...
<dogmatic69> if I could use minicom that would be fine. I have been using it for 1.5 years, and searched many many times for cmd line usage.
<einonm> dogmatic69: the other thing you can do is to just open the /dev/tty directly, and send the baud commands to it
<dogmatic69> ye, I have thought that too.
<dogmatic69> einonm: I might just implement something in php as I need a web interface for it anyhow
<einonm> dogmatic69: cool. I'm pretty sure there's an expect module for php too.
<dogmatic69> next problem would be somehow sharing a usb port over the network
<dogmatic69> anyone know if usb cat5 extenders can be used on a hub
<creakybore> cat5 extenders being female-female cat5 cables or something else?
<dogmatic69> something like this http://www.systo.co.uk/media/catalog/product/image/img/norm/high/3744120-5252.jpg
<Oli> USB-B-female->box->cat5->box->USB-A-femail... Something that allows you to extend USB tranmission to 100M instead of 5M.
<creakybore> if you meant the long-distance extenders, then yes can be used on a hub - just need to make sure they are wired for straight-through and then you use the patch cable in to the back of the extender etc
<dogmatic69> Oli: ye
<Oli> The problem I've seen with the long-distance ones is latency. A lot of applications expect <3ms lag and count anything higher as hardware failure.
<dogmatic69> hmm
<creakybore> agreed. extenders are best for last option solution
<Oli> (I'm trying to remember the exact numbers but that's the idea)
<dogmatic69> its just for serial comms, and 9600 baud so slow
<creakybore> what distance?
<dogmatic69> upstairs to downstairs
<dogmatic69> also running eth over mains :/
<Oli> This is for sending a file to something a long way away? Why not stick a Pi (or other plug-sized computer) next to the thing and interface with that?
<dogmatic69> that is what I have atm, but looking to automate
<dogmatic69> currently I desktop -> scp file -> pi -> login -> minicom -> print
<Oli> Okay, so script something at the Pi end to watch the directory, and run minicom (expect sounds nice if it can be done) and process the files
<dogmatic69> ideal: open browser my-server.local -> click print -> magic scripts send via whatever to printer
<dogmatic69> ye, that is one way but requires maintaining two scripts and more processes etc.
<dogmatic69> also if I can do it ove usb somehow I can have my pi back for other things
<BigRedS> What's the 'proper' IM client in Unity? Pidgin?
<einonm> BigRedS: empathy, I believe
<BigRedS> Oh.
<Oli> dogmatic69: Is this something that would work with a wireless print server?
<dogmatic69> its a very basic plotter
<Oli> So probably not
<creakybore> dogmatic, what about KVM over IP?
<Oli> Is there a CUPS driver for it?
<dogmatic69> its a very basic *chines* plotter
<dogmatic69> creakybore: there are some more advanced usb over eth, I think kvm is overkill
<dogmatic69> I was thinking maybe this http://www.amazon.co.uk/LINDY-USB-2-0-over-Server/dp/B001J3NZHM/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1362493739&sr=8-1
<Oli> dogmatic69: certainly the cheapest I've seen in a while.
<einonm> dogmatic69: for Â£30, just buy another Pi, surely?
<Oli> These (like most I've seen) are point-to-point. You can't use existing network infrastructure which has always been the big turn-off for me.
<Oli> dogmatic69: as we're talking about serial connections, I don't suppose the plotter has an actual serial connector, does it?
<Oli> Wireless serial dongles exist.
<dogmatic69> Oli: point to point as in no hub?
<dogmatic69> Oli: it does
<Oli> dogmatic69: Yeah as in there's one wire between those two boxes, no hubs or routers.
<Oli> dogmatic69: No idea on the pricing but: http://serialio.com/products/mobile/wifi/WiSnapAAA.php
<dogmatic69> ah, well that wont cut it.. I will check the wireless serial
<Oli> Ah. No. They cost *all* the money.
<dogmatic69> well something like that could be done with arduino and xbee :D
<creakybore> go old fashioned, just run RS-232 cable the whole way, if less than 50m you should be fine
<dogmatic69> rented house, pulling cables...
<creakybore> ok then drape cables ;)
<Oli> dogmatic69: A minute ago you were unhappy about maintaining a couple of scripts and now you want to solder together an Arduino serial flinger? >_<
<dogmatic69> creakybore: gf will be impressed, im sure.
<dogmatic69> Oli: I code all day, arduinos are fun
<redtape-renegade> QUESTION:: Anyone need Toothpaste ??? Should last until Xmas .. http://goo.gl/krDdM
<ali1234> "85% of people who used it said it left their mouth feeling incomparably clean."
<dogmatic69> Oli: even just arduino and eth as I have a hub by the plotter
<ali1234> 85%
<creakybore> i really think the previous Pi or serial-WiFi is going to be the way or in the realm of serial-WiFi then something like uconnect wa-232
<Oli> ali1234: The remaining 15% felt like they'd just been punched in the mouth by a dirty hobo.
<ali1234> also the 85% obviously compared it
<ali1234> unless like "85% of people were unable to speak after using this product."
<bigcalm> I'm really struggling with this search. Is there a 3.5mm 4 pole socket to 3.5mm 2 pole/3 pole jack converter cable?
<ali1234> no because such a thing is uneccessary
<bigcalm> I need it, so it is
<bigcalm> This is close: http://www.amazon.co.uk/StarTech-3-5mm-Headset-Splitter-Adapter/dp/B0058DOWH6/ref=pd_sim_ce_5
<bigcalm> Bah, I'll just take this headset back to the shop instead
<bigcalm> Actually, reading the information it looks like it will work
 * bigcalm gives it a shot
<popey> bigcalm: you sure you need an adapter?
<bigcalm> popey: quite sure :)
<bigcalm> popey: I have new headphones with a 4 pole jack. My PC has no 4 pole sockets
<popey> my heaphones have 4-pole and work on my pc
<bigcalm> popey: does the mic work as well?
<popey> no
<popey> you want to split it out into two connectors for mic / heaphone sockets?
<bigcalm> Yes
<popey> yeah, looks like that should work
<bigcalm> I'm sure it would work just fine as headphones only. But I need the mic to talk to my clients
<popey> but aren't iphone and android pins different
<popey> ah, control buttons non-standard
<bigcalm> popey: so I hear. We'll see how it goes
<popey> ooh! quick glimpse of Laney
<Laney> meow
<bigcalm> Oh, that's why it's quiet in here
<bigcalm> Virtual UDS
<davmor2> bigcalm: indeed that and I'm busy
<davmor2> someone has to pick on czajkowski
<czajkowski> :/
<czajkowski> it's only tuesday
<czajkowski> how is it only tuesday
<czajkowski> davmor2: you get to torement me on thursday for an enture day and watch me yell at my VMs
<bigcalm> That does sound like fun :)
<czajkowski> oh you could you know just start up a hangout
<czajkowski> forget you did
<czajkowski> go to another window
<czajkowski> and then hear someone shout at you
<czajkowski> and you leap from your skin
<czajkowski> not once
<czajkowski> not twice
<czajkowski> but many many times
<davmor2> bigcalm: you watch czajkowski come on here in tears ...... of ..............erm .....................................Joy obviously
 * bigcalm cracks up
 * bigcalm hugs poor czajkowski
<jpds> czajkowski: That's almost quotable.
<bigcalm> Yes, you can quote me as hugging czajkowski :)
<czajkowski> jpds: hush you
<davmor2> jpds: that's harsh, next time I'll set me screen to record
<czajkowski> NO
<czajkowski> NO_WAY
<bigcalm> WAY
<davmor2> czajkowski: I'm joking I'm not that evil honest
<czajkowski> you say this
 * bigcalm slithers off to dog walking
<davmor2> bigcalm: but you only have a cat
<bigcalm> davmor2: this is true
<bigcalm> davmor2: Hayley's ex-husband has Hayley's dog. We walk the dog once a week. Rather like visiting rights in a way.
<bigcalm> *woosh*
<davmor2> bigcalm: nice
<KrimZon> 'á´¥'
<redtape-atMumsie> Hi people, I had go try some of parents raspberry and coconut pie and custard, So I'm trying the USB configured Xubuntu for a change...
<RaycisCharles> redtape-atMumsie: how's Mumsie?
<ali1234> a new humble bundle just went up :)
<redtape-atMumsie> RaycisCharles, We all sat round the piano and listened to Marks keynote off the website (21 minutes) with the laptop ontop..... then Mum said .. can we plug the piano into Ubuntu ??
<redtape-atMumsie> ali1234, I dont think *any* of them look good from the videos .. Where's the doom clones ??
<shauno> I wish they'd indicate which of them I already have.  I have so many bundles now that I get to the point where I don't want to go through the list and see how many of them I don't have yet
 * bigcalm slithers in
<directhex> shauno, you already have Dungeon Defenders, and may already own some of the others from the steam linux launch sale
<shauno> I don't have steam on linux :/  most powerful linux machines I have at home, are a toss-up between the rpi, and a 800MHZ VIA
<ali1234> but not dungeon defenders for android
<ali1234> unless you bought it somewhere else already
<ali1234> most of the games on steam for linux would easily run on a raspberry pi if they were recompiled for that arch
<bigcalm> I set fire to everybody in the bank. I wonder if they will still cash my cheque :S
 * redtape-atMumsie asks #freegamer about this ...
<redtape-atMumsie> #freegamer comrades are bemused by the lack of GPLv3.0 usage on HIBundle .. typical !!
<popey> like any HIB has been GPL
<shauno> not entirely sure v3 is anything to aspire to either
<directhex> HIB games are real games, not yet another clone of super mario brothers by someone who doesn't understand game design and "i don't play games and the last game i played was pong, but..."
<directhex> low budget indie games, perhaps, but by people with a vague understanding of game design. unlike 99% of FOSS games
<shauno> the only model that seems to really work well for OSS games is the free engine / commercial assets mix
<directhex> define "work well"
<shauno> well, it seems to work wekk for quake, doom, UT, etc
<directhex> who has ever actively sold their "latest" game as assets-only, with a free engine? id software only ever ship an engine 2 versions behind current as source, for example
<shauno> *well
<directhex> UT's not open
<ali1234> sorry but 99% of commercial game developers don't understand game design either
<shauno> hm, I thought it was but seems it isn't
<directhex> quake shipped in 1996. quake's source shipped in 1999. quake 2 shipped in 1997. quake 3 shipped in 1999. quake 2 source shipped in 2001.
<directhex> quake 3 source shipped in 2005
<shauno> that's still leaps and bounds ahead of their peers
<directhex> but it's not a business model
<shauno> giving stuff away rarely is
<directhex> i thought it was a model that really worked well? :p
<directhex> ali1234, and you're an expert in game design?
<shauno> it's the only one that makes any sense to me, sure
<directhex> i await your gdc keynote!
<ali1234> what does that have to do with it?
<bigcalm> Bah, I bought Dynamite Jack the other day. I wonder if I can give away a copy once I get the humble bundle
<directhex> i dispute "<ali1234> sorry but 99% of commercial game developers don't understand game design either" as grumpy old man bollocks
<directhex> now, understanding doesn't neccessarily mean achievement
<directhex> but tht's different
<popey> bigcalm: good idea, i already have that game too
<directhex> bigcalm, i think humble bundle steam codes nowadays are one subscribtion key, not per-game keys
<shauno> they're per-game on this one, but they're not usually
<bigcalm> Night Sky didn't want to be installed
<ali1234> directhex: well i dispute "HIB games are real games, not yet another clone of super mario brothers" because most of them in fact are clones of other games
<shauno> bigcalm: same here actually, and I'm on osx
<bigcalm> Might not be ready I guess
<directhex> ali1234, there's a huge difference between a clone made with or without understanding of the source material. most FOSS chinese-made "jPhone" smartphone knock-offs - an attempt to emulate the aesthetic without comprehension of the whole of the source material
<bigcalm> Everything else seems to install okay. Playing is another matter
<directhex> bah, keyboard
<directhex> "most FOSS games are"
<ali1234> i agree
<ali1234> and the same is true of most commercial games too
<directhex> most?
<ali1234> yes, if you measure by number of "sales"
<directhex> so, looking at my HiB library, can we hear an example of a game you're accusing of being a pure clone?
<ali1234> waking mars
<directhex> i don't have that one, so don't feel qualified to comment on it
<ali1234> it's an almost exact copy of a game called exile from 16 bit days
<popey> exile? the BBC Micro game?
<bigcalm> Exile was fun on the BBC micro
<ali1234> possibly
<ali1234> i only know the amiga version
<popey> giant place you jetpack about in
<ali1234> yep
<popey> yeah, first on BBC
<bigcalm> I didn't get that vibe while playing it
<ali1234> yeah, it's not as good
<popey> amazing that it was crowbar'ed into the BBC
<directhex> i mean, just looking at my library, you've basically got to go out of your way to be a giant douche to call any of the first page of games clones
<bigcalm> Bitter memories about that game. A school friend lent me their copy and I managed to format the floppy thinking I was working on a different disc :(
<directhex> "oh, braid has jumping, it's clearly a mario clone", etc
<ali1234> legend of grimrock is an exact copy of dungeon master with updated graphics, but it is a good one
<popey> hah
<popey> i lost my copy of exile when my disks were confiscated
<popey> because I wrote a virus
<bigcalm> Haha
<directhex> "bastion has talking in it, it's clearly a teddy ruxpin clone"
<ali1234> EDGE is a copy of marble madness/spin dizzy, except not as good
<popey> ahhh spin dizzy
<popey> loved the physics of that game
<popey> way more than marble madness
<popey> mm felt like you're moving in treacle
<mgdm> never played that but I remember talk of it
<directhex> mmm, "copy" is something of an exageration methinks. the block shape dynamics are a huge part of edge
<popey> Paul Shirley iirc
<directhex> i've got marble madness for NES somewhere. lord i hated that game
<ali1234> braid basically is a clone of mario but with added annoying game mechanics. it would have been better if it was a straight clone
<directhex> yeah, okay, so in ali1234 there are only eight games
<ali1234> beat.trip beat... is barely even a game
<directhex> one platform game that everything is "an exact copy of", one racing game that everything is "an exact copy of", etc
<directhex> man i keep missing words today, and i'm not even drunk
<directhex> in ali1234 world
 * bigcalm quaffs a Hobgoblin
<ali1234> there's a couple of sub genres in racing games
<directhex> what's atom zombie smasher a clone of?
<directhex> (this ought to be good)
<ali1234> there's the realistic ones, the mario kart-y ones, and the middle ground of stuff like wipeout
<ali1234> never played atom zombie smasher
<directhex> how about blur? that's a realistic racer with power-ups
<ali1234> never heard of it
<ali1234> if you don't throw banana skins etc it's not a mario kart clone
<ali1234> if you drive over stuff and it makes you go faster it's not realistic
<directhex> how about if you can drive a BMW M3 E92, but also throw banana peels?
<ali1234> then it's cross genre and probably terrible
<ali1234> oh yeah... torchlight = diablo clone
<ali1234> i dunno if it's really good or not... i mean it does the job
<bigcalm> Cor, Beat Hazard is fun :D
<directhex> torchlight's main developers worked on an old isometric game in the 1990s when they worked for blizzard
<bigcalm> On the PC anyway
<ali1234> the binding of isaac is zelda, but with an edgy setting
<directhex> yeah, it's not at all zelda
<directhex> best comparison for that one is Smash TV
<directhex> which you should have played, as an amiga owner
<ali1234> yeah, i did
<directhex> in the general case, BoI is an edge case in the reasonably well defined genre of "roguelikes"
<ali1234> wut
<directhex> see also FTL
<ali1234> any game with random elements does not make it a roguelike
<directhex> any top-down game does not make it zelda!
<directhex> and any platform game with a jump button does not make it mario!
<bigcalm> What's a good vertical shooter like Xenon2? I miss playing that on the school library PC
<ali1234> no, but having a minimap and treasure chests and hunting for keys does!
<ali1234> bigcalm: xenon 2
<bigcalm> That I can play on linux...
<ali1234> also if you playd the PC version, LOL
<directhex> bigcalm, that you own? maybe jamestown
<directhex> it was in HIB4
<mgdm> Not Jaynestown? That'd be a good setting for a game
<bigcalm> ali1234: our school was full of acorn hardware. The library had the only PC. You did what you could get away with
<ali1234> bigcalm: let me put it another way. if you never played the amiga version you missed out on about half the game
<bigcalm> mgdm: the ep in which Simon and Kaylee _almost_ got it on. So sweet
<ali1234> go and download it nao
<bigcalm> ali1234: never been near an Amiga
<directhex> bigcalm, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MH5U92K0JgM ?
<mgdm> bigcalm: that's not the first thing that comes to mind about that episode
<mgdm> bigcalm: you old romantic, you
<bigcalm> mgdm: :D
<bigcalm> directhex: humm, interesting
<bigcalm> Not sure I bought hib4
<bigcalm> Tell a lie, I did
<bigcalm> directhex: it's not in hib4
<bigcalm> Ah, it's not in hib android 4
<popey> ooh http://www.theverge.com/2013/3/5/4068404/valve-will-hand-out-steam-box-prototypes-in-the-next-three-to-four
<bigcalm> I don't have hib 4 (sans android)
<bigcalm> popey: oo, you'll be nabbing one I take it?
<popey> nah
<popey> i expect you have to be special
<popey> like directhex :D
<bigcalm> "special"
<AlanBell> choo choo
<directhex> bigcalm, android hibs are not related to non-android hibs. the number scheme is different. there's only occasional overlap
<directhex> bigcalm, did you buy hib6? jamestown was added to that
<bigcalm> directhex: yep and I see it. Ta :)
<popey> wow, super hexagon is chuffing hard
<directhex> it's from the vvvvvv guy
<popey> not played vvvvvvvvv
<popey> i have it, just not got round to it
<directhex> it's a double clone of mario, since you can walk on both the floor and the ceiling
<popey> sounds like a rip off of bear bovver
<popey> but without the lack of innovative flip move
<AlanBell> double negatives are twice as good as single ones
#ubuntu-uk 2013-03-06
<Azelphur> gah, royal mail has been down for ages :(
<czajkowski> aloha
<jacobw> morgen
<diplo> Morning all
<mungbean> how can i check memory usage of firefox tabs?  2596m 1.5g  19m R   73 38.8 975:04.84 firefox
<diplo> about:memory ?
<mungbean> thats what i'm trying: the page has been trying to load for 10 mins :(
<mungbean> hmm facebook 800M
<diplo> yeah the JS in G+/FB etc make my tabs get huge occasionally
<mungbean> killing facebook seems to recover the machine :D
<diplo> 129mb/55mb atm, which isn't that bad for mine :)
<mungbean> left it runnign overnight?
<mungbean> trying to switch back from chrome which is killing my machine
<mungbean> but it seems that its just browsers/websites in general
<mungbean> need 8GB instead of 4GB RAM
<BigRedS> Anyone got a recommendation for a free softphone for android?
<JamesTait> Good morning all! :)
<BigRedS> Goood Morning!
<JamesTait> BigRedS, o/
<JamesTait> BigRedS, let me see what I used before I got my phone in a mess.
<JamesTait> Lumicall or something.
<BigRedS> haha, I don't want the thing that caused the mess :)
<JamesTait> BigRedS, no, that's OK, I'm not for sale. ;)
<JamesTait> BigRedS, https://f-droid.org/wiki/page/org.lumicall.android
<JamesTait> BigRedS, https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.lumicall.android&hl=en
<JamesTait> I have to admit I barely used it. I received a couple of calls on it, that's all, but I had no problems with it.
<BigRedS> haha, that's fine. Hopefully nobody will call me anyway :)
<BigRedS> thanks!
<diplo> Anyone in here ever use Cisco Unified Communications Server ?
<Myrtti> whooooop https://plus.google.com/103583604759580854844/posts/HaHsZCNEr3q
<Myrtti> finally Google Play gift cards!
<bigcalm> git branch -a
<bigcalm> Humm, not the shell
<Laney> * master
<Laney>  fix-nasty-bug
<bigcalm> Heh
<bigcalm> Did it?
<Laney> no it rm -rf my home directory and then insulted my mother :(
<bigcalm> Trixy devs
<SuperMatt> has anyone been finding libcolumbus to be... less than optimal?
<Laney> it has some kind of matching problem
<knightwise> hey everyone
<Laney> we just discussed that in the desktop channel
<SuperMatt> right right
<Laney> spotif -> gedit for me
<SuperMatt> same
<SuperMatt> I just tried qt creator, and it was on the 4th line
<Laney> apparently there is a fix
<SuperMatt> oh the plus side, typing frief brings back firefox
<SuperMatt> which is the plan, no less?
<kaushal> Hi
<kaushal> I have pidgin installed on Ubuntu 11.10. is there a way to integrate it with dash program?
<kaushal> meaning lets say if i need to IM person A, is there a short cut?
<kaushal> similar to GnomeDo?
<Laney> kaushal: you might look for a "pidgin lens"
<Laney> but 11.10 is quite old so that may make it more difficult
<kaushal> Laney: ok
<kaushal> Laney: any url to know about pidgin lens
<bigcalm> kaushal: have you had a look in USC?
 * Laney just had two blokes and a dog standing outside his front garden staring at and patting the tree there
<Laney> (in the garden)
<BigRedS> Oooh. All those Jabber accounts I couldn't get into empahy yesterday seem to go in okay if I configure them in pidgin then run an unconfigured empathy and tell it to import from pidgin
<mungbean> BigRedS: i have a jabber account that will never work in empathy
<mungbean> due to server side bug, apparently. although pidgin always works
<BigRedS> ooh, which server?
<mungbean> BigRedS: zimbra version old
<mungbean> i can't upgrade the company zimbra server just to use empathy :P
<SuperMatt> urgh, t'other day I believe I can across a command which, if placed before another command, will list the files that command is trying to access
<SuperMatt> I could be wrong, but does anyone know what that command might be?
<mgdm> strace? which is probably overkill
<SuperMatt> could be :/
<SuperMatt> it doesn't look right though
<SuperMatt> it doesn't matter
<SuperMatt> it's a means to and end
<popey> ldd?
<SuperMatt> I could just ask the question that's causing the issue, rather than figure it out myself
<davmor2> Morning all
<mgdm> strace -e open /path/to/your/command
<SuperMatt> no, that didn't work :(
<mgdm> ldd shows the libraries a binary is linked to
<popey> "doesnt work"?
<BigRedS> strace -e trace=file <command>   will list all the files that command is trying to use
<BigRedS> there's not much scope for it not doing that, really
<SuperMatt> thanks for the help, but I'm going to AskUbuntu about the underlying problem I'm trying to solve
<SuperMatt> http://askubuntu.com/questions/264680/running-usr-lib-nagios-plugins-check-apt-as-nagios-user-does-not-return-the-cor
<diplo> Seems a permissions issue for apt on the nagios user SuperMatt ?
<diplo> if it works as root ?
<diplo> Use Nagios, but never tried check_apt
<diplo> Tried running apt from the nagios user locally on the server that doesn't work ?
<SuperMatt> diplo: well, that's the thing. the nagios user shouldn't have access to run apt(-get) otherwise dangerous things happen. I think it's checking something else
<mungbean> anyone tried to sync tomboy notes since feb 28th?
<mungbean> i'm scared
<jpickett> wasn't that being deprecated
<popey> mungbean: backup, sync
<popey> see what happens
<SuperMatt> is there any way I can fake a package needing an upgrade?
<neuro> sudo apt-get --lookintotheeyes --notaroundtheeyes abracadabra
<SuperMatt> Â¬.Â¬
<SuperMatt> I see what you did there
<neuro> I see that you saw what I did there
<bigcalm> I sell sea shells on the sea shore
<neuro> is the package that's installed out of date?
<neuro> or are you just trying something funky?
<popey> there's a test mode
<popey> apt-get install -s cowsay
<popey> s = simulate
<SuperMatt> hmmm, but that doesn't put it in a perpetual state of "this package needs an upgrade"
<popey> oh, thats easy then
<popey> find a package which has been updated via -updates
<popey> and then downgrade it
<popey> apt-get install packagename=versionnumber
<SuperMatt> wicked
<popey> apt-cache policy packagename
<popey> that will help
<SuperMatt> now to pick a random, harmless package that has been updated since 12.04
<neuro> kernel?
<popey> thats also easy
<popey> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/precise-changes/2013-March/thread.html
<popey> pick one
<SuperMatt> popey: I'm getting version was not foud when trying apt-get install mountall=2.36.2
<brobostigon> !info mountall
<lubotu3> mountall (source: mountall): filesystem mounting tool. In component main, is required. Version 2.42ubuntu0.4 (quantal), package size 63 kB, installed size 234 kB
<SuperMatt> same again with another package
<SuperMatt> got it! thanks popey
<SuperMatt> I didn't realise the package needed to be not installed first
<popey> no
<popey> you can downgrade
<directhex> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-21677119
<SuperMatt> hurm, well downgrading didn't want to work
<SuperMatt> so I installed an app I knew had been updated that I didn't have, and that seemed to work
<mungbean> directhex: which OS will it run? or miht it run various OS depending on spec?
<popey> it ships with linux mungbean
<mungbean> did they confirm for all models? sweet
<directhex> if it's from valve it'll be linux
<mungbean> thats gotta mean a sizeable back catalogue will get ported soon
<mungbean> they gonna be busy bunnies
<directhex> busy not working on hl3!
<mungbean> still haven't finished hl2
<mungbean> stopped when i stopped using windows
<mungbean> and got married
<mungbean> one of the 2
<redtape-renegade> Ayone noticed the value of Bitcoins has gone through the roof recently ??
<redtape-renegade> **Anyone .. ??
<redtape-renegade> http://bitcoincharts.com/charts/mtgoxGBP#tgSzm1g10zm2g25zv
<BigRedS> As in upwards? odd
<popey> yeah
<redtape-renegade> BigRedS: Lokking at the charts .. It's almost expontial ..
<MartijnVdS> redtape-renegade: Azelphur must have noticed :)
<redtape-renegade> MartijnVdS: Is he a trader ?
<redtape-renegade> Â£2 to Â£32 in 18 months .. that's 1600.% .. even the worst doubt of trading can't fail to notice that !
<redtape-renegade> **doubter
<redtape-renegade> . In fact I don't know of better Ret. on Invest. for 2012/13 in  last 18 months , do you ?
<BigRedS> Blimey. I thought everyone had, in the main, got bored of bitcoin by now
<redtape-renegade> BigRedS: Really ?
<BigRedS> yeah, just not heard anything about it for ages
<redtape-renegade> Admitedly, for a short term trader the returns are closer to 200% month on month, but after you put about 20million in GBP on for an 18 month straight investment.. there's a billion pounds return to consider ..
 * redtape-renegade wonders if he can trade in his Tesco vouchers for a bitcoin or two :D  ??
<redtape-renegade> oh, Actually you'd need Â£63 million :(   to make a billion (so far)..
<redtape-renegade> Bitcoin should have ask me last week when I was flush    :)
<redtape-renegade> BigRedS: Your probably right, Only 1 bloke does it in IOM ::: https://localbitcoins.com/
<Laney> oho
<Laney> rms is giving a(nother) talk in nottingham next monday
 * Laney ponders whether to go
<redtape-renegade> RMS should dop an interview with Alan Parson's , then.
<directhex> Laney, do you have any odd jobs around the house to do? spot of plastering, maybe some hoovering?
<popey> washing your hair?
<directhex> painting, then watching it dry?
<Laney> pots, almost boiling ones, waiting for them to become so
<redtape-renegade> I'd mail yourself a to-do list right away .. it'll take a month to get through !
<directhex> Laney, sounds much more fulfilling than watching a beardy old man give a talk he wrote in the 1980s
<redtape-renegade> .. he doesn't even know what we call Gnu-ware on #freegamer anyway !!
<mgdm> I spotted him at FOSDEM
<redtape-renegade> yes, I hurd that.
<redtape-renegade> .. any picts.. or wasted oppourtunity ?
<mgdm> I don't generally take pictures of people I walk past in corridors
<directhex> he was at fosdem? glad i skipped it this year
<BigRedS> I didn't notice him there
<redtape-renegade> he was in Dublin a day later ..
<BigRedS> but it is always full of those free software hippies
<redtape-renegade> .. I think they had a dinner by G+ invite at the muktware-guy's house together.
<redtape-renegade> or so I hurd :)
<popey> ahh Swapnil..
<directhex> muktware is... not a world of quality free software journalism
<popey> I have had multiple run-ins with him recently
<popey> https://plus.google.com/u/0/109027644713767623413/posts/Z9hMvxLKDea being the most recent
<BigRedS> Well, it's not as if Canonical's particularly concerned about that sort of PR
<ali1234> tl;dr
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: I have indeed noticed, action is being taken :P
<popey> haha
<redtape-renegade> opening..
<redtape-renegade> popey. looks like he got the last word in, anyway .. Semantic ethics about registered IOM companies bore the hell out of me. ::: Quite simply, I've done that.
 * redtape-renegade desperately wants these to run á¿£buntu TV::
<redtape-renegade> http://svn.xtreamer.net/marketing/display.php?M=67415&C=330819bd0ae0fc2919b73b65f51be1ff&S=26&L=2&N=33
<jacobw> openstack /o\
<Azelphur> aww yea, new laptop fits in my pocket \o/
<BigRedS> How big is your new pocket?
<Azelphur> that's an i7 2.3ghz with GT 650M, in my coat pocket lol
<Azelphur> BigRedS: still tiny
<BigRedS> is this a nuc or something?
<Azelphur> no idea what a nuc is :)
<redtape-renegade> Anyone's yahoo.co.uk Email just gone nutz ??  .. I've just had 50 'failure to post' messages in the last 5 mins..
<Azelphur> 11.6", apparently worlds most powerful of that form factor
<BigRedS> It's Intel's new diddy computer. A bit bigger than a Raspberry Pi.
<BigRedS> actually, a lot bigger
<BigRedS> but still really small
<BigRedS> about half the size of a HDD in an enclosure
<redtape-renegade> .. was it something I received ??
<Azelphur> time for optimus fun I suppose
<Azelphur> also, this mir thing seems to fill me with wtf
<AlanBell> tried running it?
<Azelphur> nope
<Azelphur> it annoys me greatly that canonical don't work on wayland
<Azelphur> and it seems almost naive of them to think that they can catch up with wayland
<ali1234> they can catch up because they have a specific target
<ali1234> it's always easier to "just make it work"
<SuperMatt> from what I've seen so far, they seem to have already managed to make up a lot of distance
<ali1234> the cyanogenmod stuff is a great example of that
<ali1234> puts them far ahead of maemo, meego, mer
<Azelphur> ali1234: not really, CyanogenMod is a modified build of Android
<ali1234> and it only took what, 6 months?
<Azelphur> Canonical are talking about rewriting the whole thing, right?
<ali1234> not really
<ali1234> wayland needs all new drivers
<ali1234> that's part of the problem
<ali1234> mir can use android drivers
<BigRedS> I thought Cyanogen was way closer to Android than Ubuntu's aiming for
<Azelphur> I see
<redtape-renegade> Canonical: plz add displayport drivers.. pleeeease.
<ali1234> it's different development models
<BigRedS> I've not really been following it, though. I'm still a bit overwhelmed at how tall Canonical is heaping its plate
<ali1234> wayland is rather open ended, designed to be all things
<ali1234> mir is designed to just run unity plus legacy
<directhex> wayland can use android drivers.
<directhex> and mesa
<directhex> mir is no further ahead than wayland on this
<neuro> however, mir hasn't joined up with yutani to try and steal the xenomorphs from LV-426 ...
 * neuro is pretty ambivalent about the whole mir/wayland thing at any rate
<neuro> if there's a possibility of mir offering a better chance for something nicer than unity to be rolled in at a later date, i'm all for it
<neuro> (nicer = IMHO, of course)
<directhex> there are no technical reasons for mir over wayland. there are, however, political reasons for mir.
<BigRedS> Most of my reservation is that it's really looking like Canonical decides to rewrite something, gets the fun and exciting bits out of the way and then gets bored and decides to rewrite something else
<directhex> BigRedS, in fairness, lennart poettering does that too
<BigRedS> which is great and all, but I'd really prefer it if the paid devs were forced into solving problems that the free ones don't want to :)
<BigRedS> directhex: that, basically, is how free software in general works
<BigRedS> which is why it's annoying that this is a *company* doing it
<BigRedS> I mean, it's also entirely understandable, because it's a company that's composed largely of free software developers
<jennie> hello
<jennie> anyone from Uk
<jennie> ?
<directhex> plenty.
<bigcalm> Mostly?
<MartijnVdS> not all though
<bigcalm> Enough
<directhex> sufficient?
<davmor2> some
<shauno> apparently insufficient
<jacobw> Perhaps that was a Ukranian
<jacobw> I haven't seen one in here a while
<davmor2> BigRedS: let see canonical produce upstart everyone hails it a success then Red Hat say hmmm maybe not and creat systemd.  Redhat however don't get the crap that canonical get for doing the same thing go figure
<jennie> anyone from UK ?
<davmor2> jennie: yes
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: Lennart gets all the crap for those things (Pulse, Systemd, ...)
<popey> a few
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: not "big evil Red Hat"
<popey> he's made some very valuable contributions to the linux desktop, that's for sure
<MartijnVdS> pulse works great these days
<popey> yup
<ali1234> davmor2: red hat got a huge amount of criticism for systemd, everyone hates it, especially gentoo who have forked udev because of it
<ali1234> davmor2: and upstart was not hailed a success, no other distro than ubuntu uses it
<AlanBell> it was presented in an entirely different way
<davmor2> ali1234: there were a whole bunch using it including RedHat
<popey> AIUI Lennart contributed to Upstart in the early days
<jacobw> jennie: this is Ubuntu UK, it's for people from the UK
<popey> and offered to do some new features, then disappeared for 6 months and systemd appeared
<popey> then it all got acrimonious between him and scott.. the rest is history
<shauno> queue the 'Neighbours' theme tune
<popey> I was thinking Eastenders
<ali1234> *cue
<MartijnVdS> cue queue
<popey> thats the second time today I've seen someone use queue instead of cue
<shauno> glad I could amuse :)
<shauno> I'm going to blame it on 40 hours of uptime, and 5 years 'over there'
 * AlanBell observes a lack of redhat press release about systemd
<ali1234> is systemd even in red hat yet or just fedora?
<AlanBell> http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/systemd.html appears to be as much of an announcement that there was
<shauno> they should just port launchd to linux.  it's pretty awesome having all your config files in something that's close enough to xml to make you hate it, but not close enough that an xml parser comes in handy
<MartijnVdS> à² _à² 
<MartijnVdS> shauno: Time to reset your uptime ;)
<RadiumCat> ( Í¡Â° ÍÊ Í¡Â°)
<popey> systemd was basically lennart replicating launchd
<popey> as avahi was bonjour
<ali1234> i do like the feature where it runs services on demand
<popey> and pulse was core audio
<ali1234> and avahi is really good
<popey> yeah, systemd has some nice features
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: upstart was supposed to be able to do that
 * MartijnVdS remembers Scott talking about that
<ali1234> i've never heard anyone say a bad thing about avahi, and it just works
<popey> systemd will be in RHEL next won't it?
<popey> they've moved from upstart to systemd
<davmor2> ali1234: The Last RedHat was upstart I think the very latest might now be on systemd
<AlanBell> mir might be really good still
<ali1234> well, as always... show me it working
<AlanBell> but I don't really know if there is an intention for it to be more generic than supporting unity
<AlanBell> I have it working
<AlanBell> for small values of working
<ali1234> do you have it working with a full desktop environment, to the point where it is equivalent to X11?
<AlanBell> no, because nobody outside of Canonical does yet
<AlanBell> it does a scrolly picture of the Mir space station in a green box
<AlanBell> and there is a flippy scrolly pictures of mir demo
<ali1234> so it's about where wayland was two years ago then
<AlanBell> 6 months ago I think they said
<AlanBell> however it can do more already
<AlanBell> but I think there is a bunch of stuff still to be chucked over the wall
<popey> there is?
<AlanBell> xmir ?
<ali1234> does anyone remember my 12 predictions for2013?
<AlanBell> a buildable qmir?
<shauno> when was the last time they didn't have something waiting to be 'chucked over the wall' ?
<ali1234> "tada source"
<AlanBell> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mir-team/qmir/trunk/files
<AlanBell> anyone want to guess what to do with that?
<ali1234> my guess is it's qt backend for mir?
<AlanBell> yeah
<AlanBell> so do I compile the cpp files individually? where do I put the object files?
<ali1234> so you stick it into the qt5 tree and rebuild
<ali1234> they call it a QPA - Qt Platform Abstraction
<ali1234> not sure if this actually is one
<popey> AlanBell: i just asked.. "goal is the end of the week"
<ali1234> http://qt-project.org/wiki/Qt-Platform-Abstraction
<ali1234> looks like it definitely is that
<AlanBell> so download the qt tarball and find a home for this and build the tree
<ali1234> how to use it though - no idea
<ali1234> pretty much yes
<AlanBell> or get the deb source and rebuild the package
<AlanBell> popey: cool, thanks
<popey> everything will go in the public ppa, buildable and available there
<popey> taking longer than expected to get it all together
<ali1234> what puzzles me
<ali1234> is why keep it secret for a period of time, and then release it when it is barely functional?
<ali1234> why not either have it open from the start, or do a big release when it is done?
<popey> well it was started back before we announced phone and tablet
<ali1234> so just for the sake of having omething interesting to say at MWC?
<popey> people could probably figure out details from the source, and spoil the "big reveal"
<ali1234> yeah but the thing is the big reveal was basiclly "we're making a phone, it will be done in two years"
<popey> yeah, no
<popey> it will be done way sooner than that
<popey> but hey ho
<ali1234> yeah right
<popey> meh
<ali1234> i admire you're optimism
<ali1234> *your
<shauno> (your.  since you pointed out the cue thing.  fair's fair)
<shauno> d'oh
<bigcalm> LUG TIME! \o/
<popey> GLUG!
<redtape-renegade> Is there an Ubuntu TV meeting at the UDS ??
<popey> no
<redtape-renegade> popey, It's all over, right ?
<redtape-renegade> QU. Is The UDS over ??
<ali1234> yes
<AlanBell> UDS is over, yes
<popey> https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/914b5784e52c5967784eae44e4b138a346b1ff90?authuser=0 \o/
<ali1234> google hangouts wants to use my wintv card and will not use my webcam :(
<ali1234> oh well whatever. i'm mr interference
<popey> Laney: â¹  no webcam
<redtape-renegade> popey, did the hangout end ?
<mungbean> i was in a meeting today, and some contractor referred to spacewalk as skywalker. as in "deploy your linux VMs with skywalker"
<popey> no
<mungbean> \o/
<popey> i honestly didn't expect ali1234 to have that much hair
<ali1234> lol
<popey> you also smile more than i expected
<ali1234> i do need a trim
<popey> i expected some level of angry
<ali1234> i do have pretty much the same reputation IRL
<mungbean> what was the hangout in aid of?
<popey> just hanging out
<popey> usually after UDS sessions we go to the bar and chat
<redtape-renegade> popey .. do you see a Lenny in the hangout .. 'cos I get zip.
<popey> yes, arriving, leaving, arriving, leaving
<redtape-renegade> dont get it ?
<redtape-renegade> what should i do .. never used hangout on this netbook ?
<redtape-renegade> popey, did you get that  ?
<popey> no, it's not working
<redtape-renegade> popey.. I'll try another distro, hangon .. back in 5 mins ..
#ubuntu-uk 2013-03-07
<ali1234> aaaaaaargh something on my desk is making low battery sounds and i have no idea what it is
<Azelphur> ali1234: man, bitcoin just trolled the hell out of me
<Azelphur> that was terrifying xD
<ali1234> oh? bear trap?
<Azelphur> ali1234: price tanked from Â£30 to Â£22
<Azelphur> ...right after I just bought Â£6000 worth
<ali1234> hmm... is it time for me to buy back then?
<Azelphur> nah you missed the ship really, back up at Â£27
<Azelphur> (this all in the space of a couple hours)
<ali1234> hmm :/
<ali1234> yeah... its crazy
<ali1234> i don't really pay attention to GBP price
<ali1234> only USD
<Azelphur> ali1234: doesn't matter which you follow really, everything follows USD because of arb bots.
<ali1234> but yeah... sounds like classic bear trap
<Azelphur> ali1234: this has certainly been one of the most interesting days so far I've had in bitcoin
<Azelphur> that massive bounce
<ali1234> true... i follow usd because it's usually in front
<Azelphur> and my first cash in person tx
<ali1234> then i have time to react on secondary currency
<Azelphur> https://www.dropbox.com/s/l5uf0lr0udcjel5/2013-03-06%2015.48.16.jpg giving this to some random guy from the internet was fun
<ali1234> Azelphur:  that's quite a wedge
<Azelphur> indeed
<ali1234> interesting times, i guess
<Azelphur> for sure
<ali1234> you still operating the GPU farm?
<Azelphur> nah shut down ages ago
<ali1234> i would be tempted to hit those alt chains...
<ali1234> i only ever had the one 5870...
<Azelphur> :)
<ali1234> pretty much everyone i talk to on the internet has some bitcoins by now
<ali1234> and that's basically what i do all day every day
<ali1234> so i'd say stage 1: early adopters is a success
<Azelphur> :D
<jacobw> Morning
<BigRedS> Good Morning!
<jacobw> Hey BigRedS, how does it go?
<Laney> pew
<BigRedS> Barney McGrew?
<BigRedS> jacobw: not bad! You?
<jacobw> Also not bad :)
<jacobw> Too much IRC, too little work
<BigRedS> I've got no audio on this PC which is really nice since it stops empathy badgering me, but really annoying 'cause I keep missing IMs...
<JamesTait> Good morning all! :-D
<JamesTait> (Cuthbert, Dibble Grub?)
<jacobw> Morning
<BigRedS> jacobw: yes!
<BigRedS> no, not you, JamesTait
<JamesTait> Awww
<redtape-renegade> What is the address of yesterdays l;og of this channel , Please ?
<redtape-renegade> **log
<AlanBell> !1984
<lubotu3> Official channel logs can be found at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ . LoCo channels are now logged there too; for older LoCo channel logs, see http://logs.ubuntu-eu.org/freenode/
<AlanBell> ^^ best factoid trigger evar
<redtape-renegade> popey, What was the address of that wordpress site you did about @Mir@ ?
<redtape-renegade> **"Mir"
<shauno> hah, yes!  someone else who's cursed with a yankee keyboard
<MartijnVdS> shauno: cursed? Blessed!
<dutchie> how can i remove windows from grub? exams coming up, need more than self-motivation to stay off games
<MartijnVdS> dutchie: stop rebooting
<dutchie> well there is that
<dutchie> but y'know
<directhex> dutchie, grub.cfg gets autogenerated
<directhex> dutchie, you could erase /etc/grub.d/30_os-prober and run update-grub
<SuperMatt> dammit ubuntu.com, why can't I find an iso for 12.04? I don't want 12.04.2 :(
<dutchie> directhex: yeah, i just chmod -x'ed it
<dutchie> thanks
<Laney> SuperMatt: http://old-releases.ubuntu.com/releases/12.04/
 * Laney refrains from asking why
<SuperMatt> thanks!
<SuperMatt> well, because I'm trying to replicate the way a server was installed
<popey> redtape-renegade: wut?
<MartijnVdS> Googly Eyes! :) https://plus.google.com/100189567362844794281/posts/T7e92hNN3H8
<popey> :D
<redtape-renegade> popey : got it .. http://t.co/b0XAUQie1Q
<popey> ahh, Thomas VoÂ§ or however you do that S thing
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<Laney> Ã Ã Ã
<BigRedS> that's the most pleased looking kettle I've seen in a long time
<redtape-renegade> Morning brobostigon ..
<brobostigon> morning redtape-renegade
<redtape-renegade> Qu.1 of  7609 : What did everyone think of the UDS ??
<popey> b+ could do better
<redtape-renegade> Seems legit  ... http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/coolship-an-android-desktop-computer-that-looks-like-a-keyboard
<BigRedS> why would I want an Android PC?
<BigRedS> Oh, the subtitle of that page makes it pretty clear who might want it
<SuperMatt> people who want to play android games
<DJones> I like that it describes it as "a hardware upgradeable android desktop computer" Can't be much you could upgrade in it
<shauno> I thought these things were almost entire SOC
<mgdm> maybe it will have RAM ports or something
<shauno> unless they're using something like these "thumbstick mini-pcs" and the actually keyboard/chassis is a glorified peripheral
<bigcalm_laptop> Ello peeps :)
<bigcalm_laptop> MOT while I wait. Working while I wait. Laptops and 3g are a bad thing
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm_laptop: this is why MiFi-like devices were invented ;)
<bigcalm_laptop> MartijnVdS: I meant that with a combination of laptop and 3g, I'm working from the MOT centre when I could be relaxing instead.
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm_laptop: Online games can be relaxing
<candygirl> hey
<ahayzen> 'With the unified look and feel of the user interface and core applications, Xperia Z and Xperia Tablet Z are the perfect pair.'...somehow sounds familiar ;)
<mungbean> or the palm pre and hp touchpad
<mungbean> they even had some fancy idea where you pressed the phone agains thte tablet and it did funky stuff
<directhex> nfc, before nfc was a thing
<shauno> palm had nfc back when nfc meant something quite inappropriate :/
<directhex> i had a touchpad/pre3 combo, with the touch feature
<directhex> one of, what, 10 people
<shauno> I had a palm tungsten something, back when screens were squishy and resistive.  it turned me off smartphones for a long time
<MartijnVdS> I had one as well
<MartijnVdS> It crashed/full reset on me while I was on vacation in Berlin.. which kind of sucked
<sebsebseb> Nice this girl I like, showed her some videos of Ubuntu 12.10 just now,  she said it looked neat and such
<sebsebseb> so trying to get her to run the onilne demo
<zleap> ok cool
<zleap> online demo ?
<sebsebseb> I zleapoh you don't know about it? http://www.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/take-the-tour
<sebsebseb> http://www.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/take-the-tour
<sebsebseb> zleap: and I wanted to chat to you, but in one of our other channels or pm :d
<zleap> ok
<zleap> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-21698765
<zleap> look at the picture the far left looks like ubuntu sidebar
#ubuntu-uk 2013-03-08
<redtape-renegade> Happy Women Day !! http://uk.news.yahoo.com/on-this-day-first-international-womens-day-united-nations-pathe-155237499.html
<popey> Morning
<jacobw> Ahoy popey
<brobostigon> [A
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<popey> yes
<brobostigon> morning his popey-ness
<wintellect> popey: as the pope is going to be re-elected, perhaps we should re-elect a "popey" too :P
 * AlanBell looks for a puff of aubergine smoke
<popey> hah
<diplo> Morning all
<JamesTait> Happy Friday, everyone! :-D
<redtape-renegade> wintellect: We all know popey is too important for pope. Instead .. Sky will elected the spiritual leader of Italy.
<SuperMatt> take bets now: how many community flounce-off blog posts will there be today?
<redtape-renegade> What's a "flounce-off" ?
<SuperMatt> people saying they don't want to be a member of the community any more
<Laney> there was a calming the flames post on -devel
<redtape-renegade> oh OK .. but you get free stickers ?
<Laney> and I think sabdfl was trying to do that a bit with his blog post too
<AlanBell> flouncing is better than raging
<AlanBell> and it looks like 13.04 will actually be released which is good
<directhex> sadly i think i'm going to have to dump ubuntu as the base for company linux installs
<directhex> but i renewed my ability to upload mono things to the archive.
<directhex> in both cases because i still care about my users
<wintellect> redtape-renegade: lol
<Laney> directhex: because you're shipping non-LTS releases?
<directhex> Laney, i am not. but as a company we do a lot of development on core linux desktop technologies, and i don't know how much dogfooding will even be possible by 14.04
<Laney> I suppose it depends what you want to work on; most of the plumbing is remaining the same
<Laney> but perhaps another distro (or a flavour) would be more interesting for, say, X work
<Laney> not that I know how that's going to pan out
<directhex> well, let's take mir as the example. we pay people to work on wayland, so...
<Laney> I expect it will continue to be possible to run them (perhaps not Unity though), but it won't be the path of least resistance
<directhex> there are already instances with 12.04 where you need to do painful things to not unity all the things
<Laney> dbus, telepathy, gstreamer, whatever else though - absolutely
<Laney> even parts of systemd(!)
<directhex> random example: the default window manager is defined in the lightdm config file (i.e. lightdm hardcodes unity as default), and if unity isn't installed, the fallback is "drop back to lightdm after logging in". so you need to squash lightdm's config file from elsewhere to use a different DE when doing an unattended install
 * AlanBell would like to know how to get dbusmenu working when the desktop is not set to unity
<AlanBell> so that the HUD libraries work
<directhex> i don't think it's a priority
<directhex> i.e. any time i encounter an issue with something where "use unity" would be a fix, i don't even bother reporting a bug, because there's a reasonable chance that's by design
<bigcalm> Peek-a-boo
<bigcalm> popey: 4 pole -> 2x3 pole jack converter arrived and works perfectly :)
<bigcalm> I just updated linux-sound-base and alsa-base on one of my servers. Why does the server even have these packages?
<shauno> I'm still on 10.04, where the answer is "it doesn't"
<popey> yay
<shauno> I wish I knew a tidier way to map dependencies, but I'd be tempted to do apt-get --simulate remove linux-sound-base and inspect the fallout
<kvarley> bigcalm: You can ask that about a lot of packages in Ubuntu. So much clutter
<popey> bigcalm: i worked somewhere where the linux server was also playing music out to the phone system to do the music-on-hold
<AlanBell> you can also install ubuntu using headphones and a usb keyboard in the front of a server
<directhex> directhex@barnabas:~/CA/collabora$ dpkg -l \*clutter\* | grep -c ^ii
<directhex> 4
<directhex> not that much clutter,
 * directhex flees
<bigcalm> heh
<bigcalm> popey: I can see a use for it, just rather surprised to see it there by default
<davmor2> morning all
<popey> rage-meter for Community: [||||||||||||||]   HULKIN'
<bigcalm> Hehe
<davmor2> bigcalm: what did I miss
<bigcalm> Hi davmor2
<kvarley> How can I make all future files and folders within /srv/ belong to the group http ?
<bigcalm> davmor2: there was 4 of us. Still the usual banter, though a lot less smutty or sweary
<bigcalm> kvarley: acl
<bigcalm> I think
<kvarley> bigcalm: Ok ty
<TheOpenSourcerer> kvarley: sticky bits
<bigcalm> I could be wrong
<davmor2> popey: you and I both know how to calm the community, you grab the camera I'll grab the cat toy then we just need the right image of sky
<bigcalm> o.O
<shauno> just tried a 12.04 VM I have, it's not there either.  so I'm not sure it is actually a default
<bigcalm> Oh, Sky not sky. Was a little confused
<bigcalm> shauno: fair enough :) Wonder what thought to install them
<davmor2> bigcalm: I figured the cat toy was the give away ;)
<bigcalm> davmor2: I thought you were suggesting that popey photograph you playing with a cat toy
<davmor2> bigcalm: no
<davmor2> bigcalm: you can join in too now you have a cat that you don't own, oh and a dog you don't own ;)
<bigcalm> The dog doesn't live with us
<bigcalm> Though I bet Hayley wishes that she did
<shauno> bigcalm: found what I was looking for :)  apt-cache showpkg alsa-base; the 'reverse depends' lines will show you what packages require it.  (and it appears any package that's mentioned with a version number, is installeD)
<bigcalm> shauno: http://paste.ubuntu.com/5595629/
 * bigcalm looks
<shauno> hm, that is odd.  but it's definately marked as optional, and not attached to the server task
<bigcalm> Huh, I don't recall installing any of those reverse dependencies
<davmor2> bigcalm: 4 of you, you say adam wasn't one of them if it wasn't smutty and didn't contain swearing then :)
<shauno> I may be wrong about the version numbers bit, I picked a bad example to try with
<bigcalm> davmor2: exactly as the mailing list states: Ron, me, Alex and Andy
<bigcalm> davmor2: so quite highbrow conversation...
<bigcalm> Pressing the super key now brings up the dash below all other windows. Not too helpful that
<bigcalm> Oh, clicking the ubuntu icon does the same as well
<neuro> hmmm
<neuro> someone needs to ping d0od
<neuro> omgubuntu dns looks b0rked
<SuperMatt> about what?
<SuperMatt> in what way?
<neuro> neuro@challenger:~$ host www.omgubuntu.co.uk
<neuro> www.omgubuntu.co.uk is an alias for origin.omgubuntu.co.uk.
<neuro> origin.omgubuntu.co.uk has address 64.207.187.111
<neuro> Host origin.omgubuntu.co.uk not found: 2(SERVFAIL)
<neuro> Host origin.omgubuntu.co.uk not found: 2(SERVFAIL)
<AlanBell> it is just you neuro ;)
<SuperMatt> yarr
<SuperMatt> everything is fine here
<SuperMatt> even on google dns it's fine
<neuro> then your browser has managed to use the usable dns entry
<neuro> there are two others that say "b0rked"
<neuro> and if your browser caches that one ...
<neuro> and that *was* a google dns look up
<SuperMatt> I just did `dig www.omgubuntu.co.uk @8.8.8.8` and everything came back ok
<SuperMatt> lemme watch it until the TTL runs out
<neuro> same on opendns
<neuro> same on norton dns (198.153.192.1)
<neuro> same on level3 (209.244.0.3)
<bigcalm> Odd that the website works though
<neuro> so chrome here has picked it up now
<neuro> but for a couple of minutes, every refresh failed
<neuro> pff, dns, pfff
<neuro> apparently today is International Women's Day
<neuro> according to google
<neuro> Party on, International Women!
<neuro> local women, carry on.
<neuro> SuperMatt: maybe it's a cloudflare thing, i dunno
<SuperMatt> could be
<SuperMatt> I don't think d0od has much control over the dns
<SuperMatt> might be one of his lackeys
<redtape-renegade> Damn .. bought a Shuttle PC off ebay .. realoized after it arrived that it's a dud and doesn't work . that's a fortnight to get back the Â£150 back into my bank a/c . Oh well, seller accepts responsibility and will refund..
<dwatkins_> I considered buying a PC on ebay, but I wouldn't want to have it shipped in case the CPU heatsink came loose
<redtape-renegade> Very true dwatkins , but Shuttle PC's are spring loaded .. so there's no chance of that . I'm still at a loss as to why it is a dud, but hey, a full refund only leaves me Â£15 short.
<dwatkins> I started looking in to getting a 2nd hand PC off ebay, then realised about the heatsink thing, then one of my friends was selling a quad-core machine
<redtape-renegade> Yeah, this was an i3 ..
<dwatkins> my quad core machine is about as fast as an early i3
<dwatkins> it should be even better when I get an SSD, I just upgraded the RAM thanks to a friend who wasn't using 8 GB
<redtape-renegade> cool .. how much was it ?
<dwatkins> the same price you paid for the shuttle
<redtape-renegade> oh ok .. yeah .. they had a 'best offer' on .. so I took Â£50 off for the fun of it..
<dwatkins> not bad
<dwatkins> shame it was a dud
<redtape-renegade> mmm..
<redtape-renegade> BTW Anyone wanting a nice music afternoon .. put this into your Streaming option on VLC and hit play and wait 20 seconds .. it's quite good musae ..
<redtape-renegade> http://somafm.com/wma128/indiepop.asx
<shauno> I'm still waiting for another cashback to come up on those microservers :/  I always miss it
<redtape-renegade> I've never had a cashback or whatever they do in America, ever .. how's it work shauno ??
<shauno> fill out the form and wait for a cheque it seems
<redtape-renegade> AAh . so you've not done it before ?
<dwatkins> Soma has some great stations.
<redtape-renegade> v. true +1
<dwatkins> I particularly like Groove Salad and Space Radio.
<shauno> nope .. but in this particular case it almost halves the cost of the machine, so I'm willing to take a little inconvenience for it
<redtape-renegade> Groove Salad is very good .. a classic actually ..
<redtape-renegade> shauno: I don't get it ? Are they hoping you dont bank it or something ?
<shauno> honestly, no idea
 * redtape-renegade forgets how accounting system works momentarily
<shauno> there's a limit to how many you can redeem, so I wonder if it's to take a hit on smaller sites, in order to get their name out there, but keep big sites profitable still
<redtape-renegade> right draw= credit , left draw = debit . right got it.
<diplo> Quite a few of us have bought the microservers and redeemed
<diplo> Fill out a form, send it off, 2-3 weeks later a chequ comes through the post
<diplo> That's it
<shauno> oh I'm not disputing it works, just admitting that I have no idea what the logic behind the offer is
<popey> \o/ Microserver
<popey> there's a new Microserver now
<popey> N54L
<dwatkins> I'm tempted to just turn a Raspberry Pi into a server, now I have a separate NAS.
<shauno> new & still maxing out at 8GB ram .. bah
<diplo> I need MOAR hdd's for mine, can't afford it though really :(
<shauno> I'm looking for some cheap boxes to lab vmware on, so ram>disk.  but it still looks like just the chap  (depending on the rebate, otherwise dell's t110 starts looking attractive)
<redtape-renegade> .
<redtape-renegade> Question:Anybody want to do a hangout on G+ ?
<redtape-renegade> .
<cliftonts> Yawn!
<cliftonts> Afternoon all
<diplo> shauno: I have the T108 but it's kinda dead atm
<popey> redtape-renegade: I am hanging out now :D
<cliftonts> Fact of the day: If you click on the language selection when installing Windows 7 and then use the keyboard to select English it continues to run the installer in whatever flipping language the mouse clicked on!!
<bigcalm> popey: put some clothes on
<redtape-renegade> last time he was on .. he only had a mic ..
<cliftonts> So who's going to this Hacknthing tomorrow?
<redtape-renegade> Well, they have a hang-out, so what's the point ?
<cliftonts> From my perspective? Well, Alan is bringing a bunch of ubuntu discs for me to collect and I still not really sure what a hang-out is! lol
<popey> http://popey.com/hangout
<popey> thats a hangout :D
<redtape-renegade> cliftonts: A 'hangout' started two years ago .. where you can have a free video conference
<cliftonts> I don't have the bandwidth for all that sort of stuff
<cliftonts> I've seen it done but I'd be offline within 30 minutes if I did that
<cliftonts> Besides, now the landlord has bizzarely removed every mirror in the house I don't think you guys would want to see me anyway!
<popey> \o/ that works then
<cliftonts> Couldn't even have a shave this morning
<redtape-renegade> TRY here .. https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/25e7badb1d90524f3edf916104866fb0fda8e4b7
<cliftonts> The wonders of 3G eh?
<redtape-renegade> cliftonts: I hven't shaved in three weeks .. I keep seeing Fr. Chrimbo in the mirror :D
<cliftonts> redtape-renegade: I'm going for more of a Brian Blesssed
<MartijnVdS> cliftonts: including the shouting? :)
<cliftonts> Whenever I can get away with it
<directhex> GORDON'S ALIVE?
<cliftonts> Well, I'm at work, and I've run out of things to do, and I'm bored!
<davmor2> Flash ahhaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa saviour of the universe
<SuperMatt> Java ahhaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa just as bad as Flash
<shauno> I wonder if it's about time browsers did a better job of sandboxing their plugins
<SuperMatt> problem isn't about sandboxing the plugins. Java just has too much power over a PC anyway
<SuperMatt> f'instance, my company uses a VPN which is instigated by a java plugin
<SuperMatt> so I go to a certain page, bam! java fires up and my networking is reconfigured
<shauno> we have whole apps running in java, so I'd hope it wasn't bound and gagged
<shauno> jboss would be even worse if it had to conform to the same model as a browser plugin.  which is why I point at the plugins.  as does your example
<SuperMatt> java has a time and place, but it doesn't need to be in browser
<popey> Java.. Write once, debug everywhere.
<SuperMatt> hurr
<shauno> unfortunately my favourite java quip is !ohmy
<cliftonts> Oh, Popey, while you're about can I ask a question? Is the spec of Unity lenses changing for 13.04?
<popey> unlikely on the desktop
<popey> if your lens works on ubuntu raring, it should work on 13.04
<cliftonts> So anything written for previous versions should be ok for the forseeable future?
<popey> no. i would test on raring
<popey> rather than assume lenses for previous releases will work on 13.04
<cliftonts> I'm hoping to find a few people at the hackntalk who can help me bash out something for linking into zen cart
<cliftonts> As far as I can tell I have all the bits I need, they just need assembling creatively
<NET||abuse> arrrgg,, trying to use patch to update some fixes on a site but i can't do a full release
<NET||abuse> problem is diff output is refering to files that don't exist yet.
<bigcalm> Anybody with experience of using wrist supports (stretchy bandage type) fancy recommending any?
<diplo> bigcalm: Can't recommend one, but don't buy cheap
<diplo> If it's for work related they should be paying, part of a goverment thing i believe
<Laney> power cut!
<Laney> it's good to know that I still find them exciting :-)
<Laney> http://www.westernpower.co.uk/Power-outages/What-s-Happening.aspx is a useful page
<Laney> ... NOT
<popey> I bought some candles the other day
<popey> should have lit them during UDS hangouts and turned all the lights out, waited for someone to ask why, then said "powercut" and see how long before someone twigs..
<Laney> I already was NIMBYing the new tram line here in Nottingham, and now if it's caused a powercut (roadworks for it just down the road) I'll have more ammunition :D
 * popey ponders using some kind of imap sync tool to sync all his mail down to his laptop and use mutt locally
 * Laney is doing that (offlineimap)
<popey> are you doing anything funky with your offlineimap config?
<popey> i.e. do you cron it or run it all the time or what?
<Laney> cron
<popey> details man, details!
<Laney> it's pretty unreliable to run constantly
<popey> pls blog ta
<Laney> */5 * * * * offlineimap -uquiet -o || pkill -9 offlineimap
<popey> perfick, ta
<popey> do you sync to your laptop?
<Laney> yeah
<popey> or to a local serrver?
<popey> ok
<popey> offlineimap from repo in raring?
<Laney> that's the one
<Laney> maintained by our very own xnox
<popey> suh-weet
<Laney> and ssmtp for sendmail
<xnox> popey: cron of run once is the best, i sync to local dovecot (as I flip between mail-clients that i use)
<BigRedS_> I have a cron to run my offlineimap minutely and another to kill ones that've crashed every half hour
 * popey looks for offlineimap config
 * popey finds http://popey.com/blog/2010/12/30/backup-email-with-offlineimap/
<BigRedS> haha
<BigRedS> I can probably get you my mutt,msmtp,offlineimap config if you like. It's all in a git repo for pulling down to new installs easily
<BigRedS> just gotta get the passwords out of it and tar it up
<sebsebseb> hi
<Laney> keep meaning to try sup/notmuch, but a resounding C B A always sounds when I think about actually doing it
<BigRedS> ah yeah, I think I stumbled across that when I switched to mutt
<BigRedS> but it looked like more faff than I wanted
<popey> ok, offlineimap running
<popey> i only have one thread, this is gonna take a while
<kvarley> Wow, just wow. A mini android PC stick with a 1.8GHz quad core processor on it! http://www.geekbuying.com/item/Tronsmart-T428-Quad-Core-Mini-PC-Android-4-2-Rockchip-RK3188-2G-DDR3-Wifi-Bluetooth-TV-BOX-314524.html
<kvarley> I wonder what the import tax will be
<directhex> kvarley, here's the thing
<directhex> kvarley, remember the days when an AMD chip ran at one speed, and an Intel chip ran at a different speed, and you couldn't directly compare them?
<directhex> rockchip is not the AMD of arm chips. it is not the cyrix of arm chips. it is the ITD WinChip of ARM chips
<bigcalm> Eugh
<bigcalm> Such dirty names
<directhex> it might say 1.8GHz on it, but in a benchmark, a 1ghz dual-core qualcomm or samsung will smash it
<directhex> into dust
<redtape-renegade> taking of unusefullness .. I need to check my twitter feed ..
<kvarley> directhex: There are benchmarks here http://blog.geekbuying.com/index.php/2013/03/08/tronsmart-t428the-first-rk3188-quad-core-mini-pc-coming/
<popey> Laney: xnox how many parallel threads do you do, if syncing canonical mail?
<popey> i dont want to kick the crap out of the mail server, but I'd like my mail sometime soon
<Laney> you mean for the initial sync?
<xnox> popey: my launchpad & mailing-list spam goes to gmail. So on canonical.com I only have canonical inbox which gets very little traffic, hence single thread only.
<directhex> kvarley, be extremely suspicious. the thing that really isn't trustworthy is any benchmark which isn't hammering I/O - especially network and disk simultaneously
<popey> hmmm
<popey> thats a thought
<popey> yes Laney
<Laney> I probably just did it overnight
<popey> xnox: so you throw it at gmail and reply from an @ubuntu address or something?
<xnox> popey: i use canonical address very sparingly, only for job/office related things. For most stuff I do use gmail+ubuntu.com email address (as I have done from way before joining canonical ;-) )
<popey> hmmm, this is clearly the way forwards
<popey> Thank you rubber ducks
<bigcalm> Quack
<Laney> ooh, A Manâ¢ has turned up and started poking around in the substation
<Laney> some blown fuses apparently
<Laney> yay, back on
<rindolf> Hi all.
<rindolf> What's up?
<rindolf> Happy International Women's Day.
<directhex> i'm not an international woman, so i can't celebrate that
<MartijnVdS> You're just a national one then?
<directhex> i'm a regional man!
<MartijnVdS> A local guy
<rindolf> Heh.
 * rindolf is a sick straight male bastard.
<rindolf> I am so full of it that I write many stories with female protagonists (or antagonists).
<rindolf> Don't know how I can presume to understand women.
<rindolf> But I just write, and some people (including many women) - seem to enjoy them.
<rindolf> On the bright side, I am trying to be a gentleman and am always honest in my relationships.
<davidmarais> sorry my Dell froze and needed to be kicked
<rindolf> davidmarais: ah, that sucks.
<rindolf> directhex: heh, your comment about being an international woman reminds me of this - http://pastie.org/6423026
<rindolf> From http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/TOWTF/
<rindolf> "The One With The Fountainhead" - a parody of Ayn Rand's The Fountainhead modelled around an episode of the T.V. show "Friends".
<rindolf> And I'll stop.
<rindolf> Are you people busy pubbing
<rindolf> ?
<redtape-renegade> dwatkins: I have figured out what the problem is .
<dwatkins> redtape-renegade: oh?
<redtape-renegade> Yep ..
<redtape-renegade> Basically the CPU plastic guard that holds down the heatsink fan has snapped off my other main AMDII computer .. son instead of wasteing precious days waiting for the next Â£300 i7 to come up on ebay  .. probably best that I spend Â£3 pounds on a simple replacement :)
<dwatkins> do tell
<redtape-renegade> **so instead..
<dwatkins> cool (pun not intended)
<redtape-renegade> Anyone know anyone who does next day delivery on that kinda jazz ?
<dwatkins> amazon, if you pay for it
<redtape-renegade> scanning...
<dwatkins> or screwfix, rapid, and possibly ebuyer
<dwatkins> actually, forget screwfix
<dwatkins> Farnell might
<dwatkins> I'm off out for food, ttfn
<redtape-renegade> opk bye ..
<redtape-renegade> Man Â£18 for next day delivery of an item that is Â£4 , kinda sucks. .. Bought it anyhow :(
<redtape-renegade> .. if it doesn't arrive Monday ... be warned amazon .. I'll be narked.
<redtape-renegade> internet down,, brback...
<MartijnVdS> bareback internet?
<AlanBell> rule 34
<amayer> haha
<rindolf> MartijnVdS: be right back.
<rindolf> What is rule 34?
<rindolf> So many memes - so little time.
<MartijnVdS> I think it's better not to explain rule 34 here.. if you REALLY want to know, please google it yourself ;)
<shauno> it's not often I'd advise skipping to urbandictionary, but the first result or two feature heavily in examples, you may want to skip to UD this time
 * MartijnVdS orders a TP-Link WDR 4300
<MartijnVdS> it can run OpenWRT
<rindolf> http://xkcd.com/305/ - ah, hah.
<ali1234> why does "empty the rubbish bin" take so long?
<ali1234> if i go to the directory and rm -rf it will take less than 1 second
<ali1234> but doing it through file manager takes several minutes
<amayer> i never understood that either
<popey> it removes each file in turn I guess
<shauno> I wonder if there's some metadata store to facilitate restoring to the previous location?  that'd add an unexpected overhead
<ali1234> probably
<ali1234> so if i rm -rf it
<ali1234> then i'm also leaking database?
<ali1234> 4 minutes later it is still "preparing"
<shauno> couldn't tell you, just making random guesses at "how did you manage to break that"
<MartijnVdS> iotop?
<ali1234> it's always been this way
<ali1234> gvfsd-trash is hammering both disk and cpu
<ali1234> well, i'm going to ask this question on ask ubuntu
<ali1234> i only have 11 files and directories in the top level of trash and that is all it needs to care about for restoring
<ali1234> it has a .trashinfo file for each one
<ali1234> http://askubuntu.com/q/265660/12435
<ali1234> oh hey, it finished deleting
<ali1234> oh wait, no it didn't half the files are still there
<ali1234> hmm pparently i enabled bootchart and then forgot about it
<ali1234> typical boot time was 65 seconds
<ali1234> right in the middle is a 10 second delay with no disk or cpu activity... corresponds directly to unity-greeter
<ali1234> this is on precise
<AlanBell> ooh, I have 1.6GB of bootchart stuff in /var/log/bootchart
<AlanBell> now I have 1.6GB more space on my SSD \o/
<ali1234> you must reboot a lot
<ali1234> between may and november i rebooted 41 times
<ali1234> ~100mb of charts
<AlanBell> http://paste.ubuntu.com/5597178/ they were kinda big
<bigcalm> Good evening peeps :)
<popey> lo
<bigcalm> What fun stuff have I been missing recently?
<AlanBell> there was a virtual UDS
<AlanBell> and some flouncing
<bigcalm> Oh I do like a good flounce
<bigcalm> Need something fun to buy from Steam I think
<popey> ooh steam, thats a good idea
<popey> whee, up to 134 games now
<popey> https://twitter.com/DailyLinuxSteam/status/310147305686851584
<redtape-renegade> Well that was interesting .. we had a DNS outage nation-wide over here for 2 hours .. I blame the guy with three legs !!
<redtape-renegade> ... as an aside .. although I'm not sure how authome my score is , but I did manage to get up-to Level 26 on Frozen Bubble  .. oh Ubuntu : Offline you give me brownie points even though I can't tell anyone .. it's our little secret .. [Oooops!! ]
#ubuntu-uk 2013-03-09
<redtape-renegade> Good advertising for the Local LUG anyway :: https://twitter.com/manxtelecom/status/310164436549779456
<redtape-renegade> Good moro guriers
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<redtape-renegade> morning, morning.. & then there's coffee ..
<brobostigon> :)
<redtape-renegade> I've just been ropped in help at a charity event .. I knew today was quiet.. a bit too quiet.. :)
<czajkowski> aloha
<redtape-renegade> czajkowski: Hi there .. hows the legs etc after the kettlebells ?
<bigcalm> Hoo har hello
<redtape-renegade> morning bigcalm
<popey> Morning
<brobostigon> morning popey
<jacobw> hey popey
<redtape-renegade> Afternoon popey
<redtape-renegade> Just got a message from a Mr Smith :: http://matrix.jpope.org/notice/52078
<popey> redtape-renegade: i have no idea what that's all about
<popey> bigcalm: played Night Sky?
<redtape-renegade> popey, Just showing off statusnet.. I know your not a fan .. I'll stay on-topic from now on .. sorry
<popey> redtape-renegade: oh, that's status.net? never seen it themed
<popey> redtape-renegade: also, it's not a problem being offtopic, it's just you often post seemingly random URLs with no context so I have a hard time knowing why
<MartijnVdS> hmm
<MartijnVdS> where did my GTK/Nautilus bookmarks go?
<MartijnVdS> Only the ones that point to somewhere in ~ are left somehow
<czajkowski> BigRedS: boo
<redtape-renegade> Does anyone here use GADMIN-Bind AKA: Bind9 ??? .. trying to set up pdnsd .. no luck so far ..
<redtape-renegade> Prob.ly asked before .. but I forget things .. but I'm using Lifeograph .. improving .. :)
<redtape-renegade> OH Man I just trashed my system .. I ran all the commands on this page for pdnsd [2nd one down].. but I have no internet now .. http://askubuntu.com/questions/22750/best-way-to-set-up-dns-caching
<shauno> most likely your internet is fine, you just have no name resolution.  just put your dns settings back to normal (usually your routers address, or 8.8.8.8, or if you happen to remember what your isp provides ..)
<shauno> and don't point it to localhost until "dig google.com @127.0.0.1" works
<redtape-renegade> ok .. I willcheck hangon.. shauno
<shauno> (also, most references to resolv.conf there look outdated, change that through networkmanager, else you'll get in a fight with resolvconf now)
<redtape-renegade> shauno, No, I'm comletely shafted. I dont know any of my router ip address's or anything... Also network manager is not good with my flavour.
<shauno> you can usually get away with using 8.8.8.8 (a public server google provide)
<redtape-renegade> I gonna have start from scratch all over again ... complete reinstall.. I'll just have to try Xubuntu this time :(
<redtape-renegade> .. I just never got Xubuntu to work with my monitor to resize the screen.. for an external VGA monitor .. guess that's my first quest to find out.
<redtape-renegade> I think I will wait till I get the AMD bracket (which I'm told shipied today:) ).. and set up my system properly, then.
<redtape-renegade> It's XP this weekend :(
<jacobw> bracket?
<redtape-renegade> jacobw, You'll have to go thru the log from yesterday.. I'm not going thru all that agian.
<redtape-renegade> Is everyone at that Hacknchat thingy today ?
<ali1234> jacobw: bracket for CPU heatsink
<jacobw> I see
<popey> waking my pc up with the kb/mouse more effective when it's actually on
<redtape-renegade> & the Hacjntalk thingy .. is that today ??
<popey> it was
<redtape-renegade> soz. on a 6 ich keyboard :/
<redtape-renegade> **inch
<redtape-renegade> Is there any kinda of 'log' at all for those things ? .. And whereo where was the google hangout ..I was looking forward to being teleported to some atrium in London, today.
<redtape-renegade> no response.. I'll take that as a No.
<redtape-renegade> Why is the new Desktop Environment called Mir ?
<popey> we like to name stuff after space related stuff
<sebsebseb> hi
<popey> hi sebsebseb
<SuperEngineer> boo!
<SuperEngineer> what? nobody jumped? /me thinks: must put boo! in upper case next time ;)
<sebsebseb> popey: hi
<sebsebseb> popey: met zleap today
 * xnox 's new desktop doesn't boot.
<xnox> http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/forum/332894-12-z77x-video-bios
 * xnox is sad.
<xnox> Laney: czajkowski ^^^^
 * xnox wishes for a wizard to come around and boot my machines
<Laney> oh no :(
<xnox> Laney: yeah my fun weekend rebuilding debian archive against boost1.53 became my boring weekend of unplugging everything from my motherboard in the hope of getting it to boot into bios.
<xnox> maybe I should have gone for a prebuild machine....
<directhex> invaluable resource: a friend with the same socket type, so you can play swap-the-component
<cliftonts> Hi guys, is there anyone here running 13.04 or perhaps 12.10 who could try something for me to confirm it's a bug?
<popey> sure
<popey> ah well
<Fujisan> hello popey
<popey> hello
<popey> sebsebseb: went to paignton lug?
<nucc1> i bought an app from ubuntu software centre today, given that I do a clean install every 6 months, will i still be abl to install the app for free next time?
<popey> yes
<nucc1> awesome :)
<popey> its tied to your ubuntu one single sign on thingy
<popey> there is an option in software centre to reinstall purchases i think?
<nucc1> cool, i figured they'd have thought of that, but i needed to be sure
<popey> the only gotcha..
<popey> its possible the app is built for 12.04 or 12.10, and may not have its packaging updated for 13.04 and beyond
<popey> but you can certainly download and try
<nucc1> yea, i guess that much
<nucc1> that's fair enough, IMO
<Azelphur> Anyone recommend a cheap little DD-WRT capable router for small events?
<Fujisan> linksys
<Azelphur> you accidentally the model number.
<czajkowski> xnox: oh noes
<czajkowski> eveing folks
<czajkowski> grr on start up keep getting this crash https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-video-intel/+bug/1041790
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 1041790 in xserver-xorg-video-intel (Ubuntu) "[snb] GPU lockup IPEHR: 0x0b160001 IPEHR: 0x0b140001, workaround i915.semaphores=0" [High,Triaged]
<popey> Azelphur: WNDR 3700
<popey> czajkowski: welcome to the club
<Azelphur> kinda pricey
<popey> use the workaround
<Azelphur> it's really only for 5-10 people to connect to in a small area
<popey> i have two, one running dd-wrt next to my desk, one running open-wrt under the bed :D
<Azelphur> hehe
<Azelphur> popey: is openwrt significantly better than dd-wrt?
<czajkowski> ahhh
<popey> depends what your requirement is
<czajkowski> BigRedS: ello :)
<popey> dd-wrt = easier admin
<popey> open-wrt = more flexible
<popey> e.g. open-wrt does bringing pretty easily, dd-wrt does not
<Azelphur> bridging?
<popey> open-wrt can be controlled in the same way as many other linux boxes from the command line
<popey> yeah, so lemme splain
<Azelphur> yea, I mean I'd mostly be interested in all the features that dd-wrt doesn't have unless you pay them
<Azelphur> like bandwidth stats
<czajkowski> got to hear about http://www.stemnet.org.uk/content/ambassadors
<czajkowski> could be interesting to folks in here
<popey> internet -> cable modem (modem only mode) -> dd-wrt (doing dhcp etc) -> network cable -> open-wrt (bridged)
<popey> open-wrt doesn't do dhcp, it bridges the network so i get my ip from the dd-wrt router
<Azelphur> for a bridge, don't you just turn off DHCP?
<Azelphur> that's all I do
 * popey shrugs
<popey> âº
<Azelphur> hehe
<Azelphur> I want to try out trine 2 but their demo is broken :<
<redtape-renegade> If grumpy cat were a mascot .. what would it be for ??
<redtape-renegade> http://gma.yahoo.com/blogs/abc-blogs/grumpy-cat-internets-favorite-sour-cat-draws-crowds-195106284--abc-news-tech.html
<redtape-renegade> Mmmm SXSW .. maybe next year ... dunno.
<redtape-renegade> ebay.co.uk bid's system is a mess now .. looks more like I'm shopping at penny's or something. The attraction of getting something on the cheap at the heart of the old site has been completely torn out.
<redtape-renegade> .. and it's rigged with step-bids that go up Â£3 a time after twenty quid. Could 've bought the site for 750million in 2009.. they should've asked me last week .. & I'd have cut the redtape all over it.
<redtape-renegade> .. bye for now..
#ubuntu-uk 2013-03-10
<penguin42> moreati: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/03/08/yahoo_webmail_hijack_flare_on/
<redtape-renegade> penguin42: Yep, I was affected by the yahoo password thingy.
<redtape-renegade> Morning all .
<popey> Morning
<kvarley> What FS type should I use for my external HDD? I need to use it on OS X and Linux
<kvarley> I've seen online that UDF might be the way to go
<directhex> kvarley, fat32, unless you need files >4GB
<popey> +1
<directhex> wifey wanted a windows reinstall this weekend, but has done no prep
<directhex> e.g. list of apps to reinstall
<popey> people prep their windows reinstalls?
<popey> i thought they just reinstalled and crossed their fingers
<directhex> a managed reinstall demands a managed approach
<directhex> e.g. find install media
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<dwatkins> allo allo
<brobostigon> morning dwatkins
<MartijnVdS> Is Flickr/Yahoo slow for anyone else?
<redtape-renegade> MartijnVdS, Not really on uk site .. but a lot of passwords were hacked recently.. althou the two are not that related.
<MartijnVdS> redtape-renegade: nah it just takes ages to upload/download my photos
<MartijnVdS> even though I have 100/100 fibre on this end ;)
<redtape-renegade> oh ok .. not tried.
<redtape-renegade> .. they're doing it again ! A tumbleweed just went by my house :(
<MartijnVdS> redtape-renegade: time to walk out into the street and duel the bad guy?
<redtape-renegade> MartijnVdS, No, I was out at 7am to get a black jack chew bar.. It's still as cold as 9pm last night . when my face almost froze off !
<redtape-renegade> My question is : Is there any point to Sunday's ??
 * MartijnVdS was out at the coast.. that almost froze my face off :)
<MartijnVdS> but I survived!
<redtape-renegade> mm.. I think we should have a coffee nex time I'm over in Leiden .. on me.
<redtape-renegade> .. that ferry from Hull is like getting onboard a soviet vessel though :)
<redtape-renegade> ..oh well shall we share music MartijnVdS until people wake up ?
<redtape-renegade> http://open.spotify.com/track/5gJjQyEN8PjubKf0fR6hxv Hello Sunday .. may the Sunday driver keep outta sight.
<MartijnVdS> redtape-renegade: http://www.flickr.com/photos/treenaks/sets/72157632958666235/with/8543696251/
<redtape-renegade> opening...
<redtape-renegade> mmm
<redtape-renegade> Duingebied
<redtape-renegade>  is snowy .. reminds me of froze bite with wet mittens .. not good for children..
<redtape-renegade> don't know why the linage thing happened there ?
<redtape-renegade> ** frost-bite ..
<redtape-renegade> MMmm . redtape-renegade does a tour of http://www.frostbitemedia.org/
<directhex> i was interviewed by those guys
<neuro> <10:50> redtape-renegade: MartijnVdS, Not really on uk site .. but a lot of passwords were hacked recently.. althou the two are not that related.
<neuro> redtape-renegade: what hack are you referring to?
<neuro> and since Yahoooooo! and flickr share authentication methods, yes, they are that related
<penguin42> neuro: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/03/08/yahoo_webmail_hijack_flare_on/ ?
<neuro> oh good grief ... :(
<neuro> glad i don't use yahoo mail then
 * penguin42 posted that url about 10 hours ago to someone (who asked last week) - sorry forget their nick now
<neuro> np
<neuro> i was asleep most of yesterday so missed that
<neuro> did a 13 hour simcity sesh on friday night and paid the price for it :)
<penguin42> hehe
<neuro> once you can actually get logged into it, it's a wonderful game
<neuro> now i'm just hoping that my PC purchase grants me a free copy of the mac version, a la Steam purchases
<neuro> although, knowing EA ... probably not
<neuro> first time though that I've purchased a game, and could have in theory not actually bothered taking the DVD out of the box
<neuro> it comes with an Origin activation key, so you could just whack that into Origin and download the game
 * neuro is a bit of a PC games noob (in theory), so this is all odd to my console-gaming self :)
<neuro> how are people finding Steam on linux, enjoying it?
<mano> hi
<neuro> hellooooo
<mano> may you help me plz i face a problem
<directhex> i don't know anything about origin on mac
<mano> i use ubuntu studio not mac
<neuro> directhex: well it's not so much origin itself, whether or not they automatically grant you mac licences for pc games you've bought
<neuro> they being EA
<neuro> will wait and see
<neuro> apparently simcity will be DL only on mac, so the Â£33 i paid in tesco would likely not be the cost I'd pay direct to EA :P
<neuro> anyway
<neuro> mano: directhex was answering something i'd said before you joined
<neuro> what's your question? :)
<mano> so !
<directhex> neuro, i don't see any precedent, as EA don't have mac versions on steam for their mac games (e.g. the sims 3)
<neuro> directhex: they do on origin
<neuro> but there's no way i'm buying sims 3 to find out ;)
<directhex> Like Valveâs Steam Play initiative, select EA titles purchased from Origin will work on both PC and Mac
<directhex> no definition of "select" there
<neuro> ya
<shauno> not sure you have to buy anything to find out.  just install origin on your mac, login to your account, and see what shows up
<neuro> shauno: simcity for mac only has an indeterminate "spring 2013" release date, it's not out yet
<shauno> ah, I see
<neuro> seems mano didn't want to ask their question :P
<neuro> interesting ... simcity shows up in my account along with bf3 and bf1942, but they all say "Game only available on Windows"
<neuro> will wait and see if that changes ;)
<mh0> neuro: Correction: He didn't want to wait for someone to finish first, such is impatience
<neuro> i did say "what's your question"
<neuro> righty ho, i'm off to forage for some lunch ... I think I may have a quiche in the fridge \o/
<redtape-renegade> oh Happy Mother's Day BTW..
<Laney> thanks son
<bigcalm> Next year I'm going to send a 'happy birthday' card
<bigcalm> Better yet, 'happy birthday dad'
<jacobw> When did pdf.js land in Firefox? I've just started to notice it
<penguin42> a few months I think, it's been annoying me for that long
<ikonia> any of the Ubuntu UK guys audophiles
<MartijnVdS> ikonia: "normal" people who know audio, or weirdos that want gold-infused cables with contacts that were kissed by virgins for that extra sound quality?
<ikonia> MartijnVdS: more in the normal world
<ikonia> as I think the extreme stuff would be over my head by a mile, or two
<MartijnVdS> you won't hear the extreme stuff.. it's all "I hear it because I paid a lot of money" psychological effect
<ikonia> quite the opposite
<ikonia> I've just been reading about a really small little valve amp and wanted to get a more educated view on it than my mortal understanding
<jacobw> ikonia: What have you read about so far?
<ikonia> jacobw: just positive reviews of a little amp called a miniwatt
<redtape-renegade> ikonia, I don't know about the source as I just get whatever comes out of the 5.1-card headphone jack.. but as I move around the house a lot that leaves only two or three possible headphones that I can use ..
<ikonia> redtape-renegade: sorry, wasn't talking about using this with a PC
<ikonia> redtape-renegade: just thought about it as a nice little amp for a turn table
<redtape-renegade> this is because they are regarded as closed loop (closedf source I'm afraid) .. by Sennheiser. The reason no of the others work is that it is possible to pick up the audio on some of the modern baby monitors, so the options are few.
<redtape-renegade> ikonia, I dont think I've ever played a record TBHonest.. i have spotify which is 320kbps  .. who needs anything else ?
<ikonia> redtape-renegade: just have some old records, that I bought a turn table to re-play
<ikonia> hence a small good value amp, this seemed interesting
<redtape-renegade> If you want to join that community there are a couple of people you can share music choices with on this channel .. otherwise how does thatr help us ?
<ikonia> sorry what  ? how does it help you
<ikonia> join what community ?
<redtape-renegade> you have to understand that this is a sharing community..
<redtape-renegade> Spotify..
<ikonia> what are you talking about
<redtape-renegade> GIYF.
<ikonia> what ?
<ikonia> I just asked for a more experienced view on this small value value amp
<ikonia> why are you talking about community/sharing/spotify
<redtape-renegade> what community do you belong to , then ?
<ikonia> what are you talking about community ?
<ikonia> I've not asked for any community
<ikonia> I just asked if anyone was more experienced in audio technology to give a more experienced view on this amp that seems reasonable value
<ikonia> or have I missed what you are trying to say
<redtape-renegade> Idon't think we are on the same page . Good luck with your electronic thingy.
<ikonia> redtape-renegade: sorry, am I missing what you are trying to say ?
<ikonia> redtape-renegade: if you could try again,
<shauno> miniwatt's website is .. interesting
<ikonia> shauno: yeah, it looks like it's been taken down to the minimum waiting for a new product release.
<shauno> I've been looking at getting a turntavble too, but sticker shock seems to be the name of the game now
<Myrtti> how much is it?
<ikonia> shauno: I find an excellent pioneer (excellent in terms of usable for home use and good quality) for Â£80 which I thought was worth while as it was around Â£400 new
<ikonia> MartijnVdS: Â£150-ish
<ikonia> oops
<ikonia> Myrtti: the amp is around Â£126 - Â£150
<Myrtti> does it really use valves?
<popey> valves and big dials it appears
<popey> I read a rather good review of it earlier
<Myrtti> wow.
<popey> http://www.hifivision.com/reviews/5648-miniwatt-tube-amplifier.html
<ikonia> (to just play a few old records)
<ikonia> popey: yes, the reviews seem positive and good value, hence why it maybe a good investment for a little amp
<shauno> and chunky transformers judging from the boxes behind the valves
<yarinse> hola, como puedo desintalar android?
<popey> my ears probably wouldn't be able to tell the difference between that and a crappy amp from Tandy
<ikonia> popey: with records the sound does tend to be more extreme difference depending on the amp / speakers
<popey> that may be, but I stick by my assertion âº
<ikonia> still for Â£126 / Â£150 for something that can be tucked away, it seems reasonable
<ikonia> almost a little too good to be true
<shauno> I think I'd trust a no-name chinese more than tandy these days :/
<ikonia> also don't seem to be too many around at the moment, but if it is a good value as it seems, I'll dig one out
<popey> well, the amp i am thinking of that I had in my youth from Tandy was a Memorex brand iirc
<popey> which did fine driving my TDL RTL-2's
<popey> which I miss
<shauno> tandy as a whole was quite a different beast in your youth though
<shauno> last time I saw one, they appeared to specialise in cellphone cases
<popey> i still have the RTL-2's in the loft but the drivers are wrecked
<ikonia> I have an old 80's pioneer amp that will work fine, but it's quite big, I thought this maybe a nice replacement
<popey> would love to get them up and running again
<ikonia> popey: are you electronically savvy enough to ?
<popey> to replace speakers, yeah
<ikonia> ah, it's just the speakers thats gone
<popey> yup
 * popey drifts into fond memories of ~20 years ago
<popey> blimey, time flies
<ikonia> half the reason I want to play some old records
<ikonia> I bought the CD's of them, but they basicall transfered the recordings onto CD and it's not gone across well
<ikonia> the records still sound good when played though
<popey> i need some bzr help...
<popey> \o/ rtfm works
<popey> \o/ success
<popey> bug 1153346
<lubotu3> bug 1153346 in Phablet Tools "phablet-flash should have a "download only" option" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1153346
<popey> this is where we discover I can't actually write python :D
<ali1234> how do i view the code?
<ali1234> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~popey/phablet-tools/download-only/revision/64?start_revid=64
<ali1234> well your indent style doesn't seem to follow the rest
<ali1234> but apart from that it looks ok
<ali1234> lines 89-94 need one more space
<ali1234> oh, why not use parse.add_mutually_exclusive_group()?
<ali1234> hmm... i'm gonna rewrite this, ok?
<popey> knock yourself out
<popey> i thought I used the same indent, thanks for noticing
<ali1234> how do i propose a patch on top of your proposed patch?
<ali1234> what does "autodetectÂ failsÂ device" mean?
<popey> bad english
<popey> it just means "it's not in the list of supported devices"
<popey> i.e. gnex, n7, n4, n10
<popey> but using the codenames of course
<ali1234> so why not just say "unsupported device" - it's not even trying to autodetect?
<popey> it used to
<popey> i _think_
<ali1234> it does, if a device is plugged in
<ali1234> did you break that?
<ali1234> "requires target device"
 * popey checks
<popey> it detected my grouper
<ali1234> so if you just say -D now, it still detects it and only downloads the images?
<ali1234> i would implement this as -D(on't flash)
<popey> nice
<ali1234> rather than -D(ownload only)
<popey> no -D fails (as it should)
<popey> alan@deep-thought:~$ phablet-flash -D
<popey> Device type must be specified when in download only mode
<ali1234> why should it?
<popey> oh, i see
<popey> bum
 * popey unlinks the merge and plays more
<popey> good call
<ali1234> -d should be optional
<ali1234> override, if you want to get the image and don't have the device
<ali1234> ooo it's snowing :S
<popey> phew! that was close, misclicked "merge" instead of "rejected"
<popey> then corrected :D
<ali1234> welll you can always rebase :P
<AlanBell> evening all
<AlanBell> anyone seen this kind of thing from Banshee or rhythmbox when trying to copy music to an iPad? http://paste.ubuntu.com/5602689/
<AlanBell> Failed to save iPod database - GLib.GException: Unsupported checksum type (in `libgpod-sharp')
<AlanBell> got dad a USB turntable thing and showed him how to record stuff in Audacity and save as MP3, it plays great in rhythmbox or banshee but copying it to the ipad in the way he normally copies stuff fails
<AlanBell> he was dead impressed that banshee managed to look up the album cover art from the name
<ali1234> hmm detect_device bombs out with exit 0 so no chance to print a helpful error message if there's no device plugged in
<ali1234> popey: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~a-j-buxton/phablet-tools/download-only/revision/64
<popey> ali1234: much better
<popey> you should propose that for merging and attach to the bug âº
<popey> (thanks)
<ali1234> yeah cos i know how to do that :)
<popey> heh, i only found out 40 mins ago!
<popey> https://code.launchpad.net/~a-j-buxton/phablet-tools/download-only click Propose for merging
<popey> it should already know where to merge it to
<popey> also below that is a Link a bug report
<popey> but the bug number in.. job done
<popey> s/but/put/
<popey> jenkins will do it's CI magic, then wait till tomorrow when a human will review and merge it
<ali1234> is this code covered by the CLA?
<popey> good question, no idea
<ali1234> i never signed CLA, got a patch into ubuntu achievements though :)
<popey> ask rsalveti perhaps?
<popey> heh
<ali1234> i like how lp waits a bit before sending emails and bundles up all changes, instead of spamming me to death
<popey> yeah, it never used to
<redtape-renegade> Just a bit of candy for the eyes with a coding slant for the week's end :: https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=eBV14-3LT-g
<ali1234> cinder looks cool
<ali1234> i could have used something like that a couple of years ago
<ali1234> ended up just writing my own :/
#ubuntu-uk 2014-03-03
<jussi> morning all
<nigelb> Morning jussi
<jussi> morning
<nigelb> jussi: Having a good monday?
<jussi> nigelb: is there such a thing as a goods monday?
<MooDoo> morning all
<mapps> hey
<mapps> sup guys
<MooDoo> howdy mapps
<mapps> hows it going
<MooDoo> mapps: yeah ok thanks :)
<MooDoo> little giggle for the morning - https://twitter.com/DownloadMoreRam/status/427508509513904128/photo/1
<mapps> :D
<MooDoo> 1 of 3000 lol brilliant :D
<mapps> trying to find property in elephant and castle
<mapps> O_o
<mapps> :(
<MooDoo> difficult I'm assuming
<mapps> yea
<MooDoo> booo
<mapps> the rents are all stupid of course
<mapps> 1200-1500
<mapps> which is a lot for me for one person
<MooDoo> wow that's a lot
<MooDoo> does it have to be there?
<mapps> id prefer to be move there
<mapps> but
<mapps> elephant and castle is regarded as a pretty shitty area of London;p
<mapps> so spomewhere nicer is even more expensive
<MooDoo> move out of the city?
<mapps> where? to croydon?
<mapps> croydons horrible and still expensive
<MooDoo> sorry I don't exactly know the area
<jussi> ikonia: when you wake up, grab me on PM please :)
<mapps> my dad lives in Surrey (woking) which is in the commuter belt to Waterloo and a house 5 doors up from him is going for 1750/month
<mapps> which is ridiculous imo
<mapps> hey jussi
<jussi> hey mapps
<mapps> whats up mate
<mapps> argh it sucks
<mapps> i wanna move so much
<mapps> but 1500 a month will leave me with well not a lot
<mapps> :D
<MooDoo> 1500 a month would leave me with negative fundage lol
<mapps> you live on your own too?
<MooDoo> no wife and kids, but still couldn't afford 1500 a month
<mapps> i can afford it max..basing like 100 quid council tax/100 quid/week for food
<MooDoo> wow
<mapps> and then obviously gas/electric
<mapps> im looking at buying a pokey flat tho;p
<MooDoo> then again it is london isn't it.  houses where I am for a 2 bed, is about Â£600/800 a month
<mapps> you obviously live with your kids
<mapps> yea
<mapps> thats still a lot no?
<mapps> 600-800 for a 2bed still seems a lot to me
<MooDoo> yeah pah wheres me tent ;)
<mapps> :D
<mapps> where you living?
<mapps> i prob wont have heard of it
 * mapps isnt well travelled
<MooDoo> Nottingham ;)
<mapps> ah
<mapps> youre kidding?
<mapps> 600-800 for a 2 bed there?!
<mapps> ive heard Nottinghams horrible..gun crime central?!
<MooDoo> lol :)
<mapps> im serious
<MooDoo> it's really not that bad
<mapps> isnt it gun crime central?
<mapps> I'm Southern as you probably guessed;p
<ali1234> nottingham is all knife crime
<MooDoo> in certain areas it's got a reputation, but in the generalness of it, it's fine.
<mapps> furthest I've been is Manchester
<MooDoo> ali1234: I've never in the 35 years of living here never experienced gun or knife crime
<ali1234> neither have i
<ali1234> what i mean is that more people get stabbed than shot
<MooDoo> notts has a rep, but it aint bad :)
<MooDoo> yes
<mapps> yea
<mapps> ive never been
<mapps> wouldnt even know where its near
<MooDoo> it's about 1.5 hours from manchester
<mapps> as i said Manchester is the furthest North ive been
<mapps> liverpool/newcastle/shefield/coventry
<mapps> all foreign to me
<mapps> ;p
<ali1234> nottingham is almost exactly half way between manchester and london
<MooDoo> mapps: we'll setup an ubuntu hour in notts and you can come along ;)
<mapps> :)
<MooDoo> awesome pubs :)
<mapps> you'll all mock my accent
<mapps> lo
<MooDoo> mapps: of course ;) but it will be friendly humour and you'd mock us any way for our "ayup me duck"
<ali1234> (actually it's not but it seems like it is because london to nottingham is all flat, but nottingham to manchester has a bloody big mountain in the way)
<mapps> lol
<mapps> hahahaha
<MooDoo> ah you can get up the heights of abraham ;)
<mapps> ayup duck is STOKE no?
<MooDoo> nottingham as well
<mapps> ah
<mapps> i live in stoke now but not a stokey
<mapps> a surrey'er
<mapps> living in stoke..waiting till he can move back :)
<MooDoo> have a look at this - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Midlands_English#Dialect_words ;)
<mapps> Ive had chest pains since friday..smoked some cigs again;/
<mapps> did 20km on thr bike today to combat it
<mapps> but its still there
<MartijnVdS> don't do that then :)
<mapps> yea
<mapps> thats the best way
<mapps> when i am on holiday i always do
<mapps> got to holland and bought 20 marlboro lights right away again
<mapps> and when i go out
<mapps> yet i quit smoking 2 years ago!
<MartijnVdS> mapps: strange man
<jussi> mapps: well that was silly of you :P
<jussi> mapps: Im doing fine, in reply to your previous question
<mapps> aha good
<mapps> yea
<mapps> it is silly
<mapps> but its like sometimes i think i fancy a cigarette
<mapps> even though i dont smoke anymore..;/
<MooDoo> mapps: jussi can you check ubuntu.technology for me, yes that's the domain, friend says it's down , but I can see it fine....
<MartijnVdS> looks more like a newsgroup 8-)
<jussi> MooDoo: wfm
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: I get a website there
<MartijnVdS> "Click a button to go to the downloads"
<jussi> "ubuntu.technology a simple portal to all things Ubuntu / Canonical"
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS: ok thanks  must be just him then
<mapps> ubuntu.technology? /.technology being a domain?
<jussi> mapps: yup
<MartijnVdS> mapps: it's a new TLD
<MooDoo> mapps: yes new GTLD's
<MooDoo> thanks all :)
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: maybe his DNS server doesn't like the new GTLDs somehow?
<jussi> or he is using ie6 :P :P
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS: or he's just a muppet ;) but seems ok thanks
<jussi> bwahahaha
<mapps> for real MooDoo ?
<mapps> when did they go live
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: "Why not both?!"
<MooDoo> last week
<MooDoo> :)
<mapps> aha
<SuperMatt> morning
<MooDoo> morning SuperMatt met another to be racker via twitter the other day :)
<SuperMatt> oh yes?
<SuperMatt> which one?
<SuperMatt> not that I know them all
<SuperMatt> but I might know of which one you speak
<MooDoo> Giri Fox, he's from oz,
<SuperMatt> ah, then no, I don't know that person
<SuperMatt> so... is it time to talk release parties yet?
<MooDoo> talk all you want....la la lal al al ala la la fingers in ears la la la la la ;)
<MooDoo> also Global jame ;)
<mapps> gonna hm
<mapps> ]i love that video
<mapps> how the great gatsby was made
<mapps> still not seen the film
<mapps> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xcebw8YycuQ
<mapps> #;D
<DJones> mapps: I watched the great gatsby, I wasn't impressed, to me it jumped all over the place and didn't have any sort of plot
<popey> Morning
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<DJones> Morning all
<popey> http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/piers-morgan-hits-back-jeremy-3198250  â»
<mapps> really
<mapps> DJones,  so not worth bothering with?
<DJones> mapps: I wouldn't watch it again, but then again everybodys taste is different, a lot of films I like get rubbish reports, and yet I don't enjoy ones with great reviews, best to give it a go and decide for yourself
<DJones> I think thats more a comment on my taste rather than everybody elses
<MooDoo> I loved it when piers morgan tweeted about popey's cat image lol ha ha ha ha
<bigcalm> o.O
<MooDoo> not seen it?
<bigcalm> No
<MooDoo> https://twitter.com/popey/status/440076758679683072/photo/1
<bigcalm> I've seen that
<bigcalm> But I don't know what it referred to
<popey> bigcalm: scroll to the bottom of the mirror article
<bigcalm> Ha!
<popey> bigcalm: or click the link in the tweet MooDoo just posted
<diplo> Morning all
<SuperMatt> ok, so for the release party this half, I'd quite like to go back to place we went to for saucy
<popey> where was saucy>
<popey> ?
<MooDoo> tempted lol - http://www.45drives.com/products/order/enclosure.php
<foobarry> is copying a 33GB file of zeroes a fair test for scp over a network? or will compression work too well?
<dogmatic69_> foobarry:  you want to test the speed?
<mapps> piers tweeted about popeys cat?!
<MooDoo> mapps: yup
<mapps> url?
<bigcalm> Is it popey's cat or just an image hosted on his VPS?
<MooDoo> just an image
<popey> the latter
<foobarry> dogmatic69_: want to test a few things, one of which the speed
<foobarry> i know its not eral speed, but real world speed i want
<dogmatic69_> foobarry:  maybe checkout nload
<foobarry> i use iperf for bandwidth tests
<foobarry> popey: did you check the google logs to find out how he found it?
<mapps> ;]
<foobarry> i mean the access logs for the google referral
<mapps> iperf?
<foobarry> yes , iperf
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Monday, and happy What if Cats & Dogs Had Opposable Thumbs Day! :-D
<foobarry> discovered i have Â£55 in amazon vouchers from my birthday. hmm what to buy?
<popey> foobarry: i discovered he uses chrome 33 on osx mavericks
<foobarry> he looks like an apple user
<foobarry> ;)
<foobarry> 42MB/s over a 1GB wan acceptable? no jumbo frames
<foobarry> ~350Mb/s
<foobarry> scp'ing from nfs mounted filestore<--->nfs mounted filestore 6 miles away
<popey> there were 80 hits in the first _second_ after Piers tweeted that picture
<popey> from different places
<MooDoo> good old bitfolk
<popey> so probably people who had their twitter app/client open already which just refreshed itself - streaming api
<Laney> how did he get hold of the url in the first place?
<popey> I have no referrer in my apache logs interestingly
<popey> just a direct hit
<MooDoo> oh come on guys, it's popey, he's just as famous as piers ;)
<mapps> was it like popeys cat on his laptop or?
<popey> hah. no.
<MooDoo> mapps: just a cat with some milk,
<mapps> o
<mapps> i thought maybe like walking over his laptop:D
<MooDoo> mapps: this is the image - http://meow.popey.com/meow.jpg
<mapps> LOL
<mapps> meow.popey
<mapps> heh
<MooDoo> sigh laptop power block failed at the weekend :(
<mapps> cats are nice
<foobarry> large file copy exited after 22GB...dodgy router somewhere?
<foobarry> disk space/quotas all ok
<popey> golly, meow.popey.com has existed for 6 years, untouched
<MooDoo> I think people mostly use tumbleweed.popey.com don't they?
<foobarry> spooky
<popey> -rw-r--r-- 1 www-data www-data 44732 Oct 19  2007 meow.jpg
<MartijnVdS> popey: how much data transfer has it used?
<popey> not a lot
<popey> http://meow.popey.com/usage/ funny tho
<ali1234> file:///Applications/Install/150F3FC4-DC0D-4299-A8BA-069B70436AD7/Install/ is an odd referer
<diplo> I just noticed that as well :)
<MartijnVdS> a twitter app on a Windows Mobile device?
<popey> http://www.windowsphone.com/en-us/store/app/mehdoh/150f3fc4-dc0d-4299-a8ba-069b70436ad7
<popey> haha, metro embedded the picture http://metro.co.uk/2014/03/02/jeremy-clarkson-says-everyone-hates-piers-morgan-piers-morgan-calls-jeremy-clarkson-a-girl-4376743/
<foobarry> and mirror too
<MooDoo> lol ha ha,
<foobarry> most of stuff printed in papers is the public comms of "celibrities" on twitter and stuff from reddit or wikipedia
<foobarry> i suppose thats what happens when people stop buying them and get them for free ont eh web
<ali1234> personally i would have changed the image
<ali1234> opportunity too good to miss
<MooDoo> ali1234: don't think popey is like that lol
<ali1234> yeah but when are you ever going to get another chance to goatse-troll two of the biggest toss pots this country has ever produced?
<MooDoo> ali1234: to be honest I wouldn't want to do it either, what's the point....
<MooDoo> ali1234: all that would happen is that popey.com would then been seen in a bad light....yes i'm a wuss bag lol
<popey> oh i would have done that
<popey> i have indeed done that in the past
<popey> when someone used my homer simpson image in a forum, deep linked.
<MooDoo> oh yeah but that's different lol
<popey> no, its exactly the same
<popey> well, different people
<foobarry> clarkson would have found it funny
<MooDoo> let's just setup a site linking all popeys subdomains as urls you can use for everyday situations ;) lol
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<MooDoo> mroning brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo
<DJones> Eww . http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-26413101 I wonder if the snake got indigestion
<bigcalm> Version numbers on this project have got to the 1.3.1.1 level. How deep will the rabbit hole go?
<MartijnVdS> until the end of pi
<brobostigon> recurring into infinity
<MooDoo> and beyond?
<brobostigon> try and calculate what comes after infinity?
<MooDoo> 42
<MartijnVdS> -1/12
<MartijnVdS> (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-I6XTVZXww)
<bashrc> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cantor%27s_theorem
<brobostigon> MooDoo: lol, good radio program though.
<MooDoo> :)
<brobostigon> :)
<knightwise> morning everyone
<MooDoo> morning knightwise
<davmor2> Morning all
<davmor2> bigcalm: you looking to buy the place you are living in?
<bigcalm> davmor2: we're looking around to see what's available
<davmor2> bigcalm: fair enough
<bigcalm> Hopefully viewing places later this week
<MooDoo> morning davmor2 :)
<davmor2> bigcalm: ahhhhhh look the kids are all grown up ;)
<davmor2> MooDoo: Morning dude how's life?
<MooDoo> davmor2: yeah ok thanks mate, just looking into 180TB storage systems lol
<bigcalm> davmor2: I refuse to grow up without a fight
 * jussi drags bigcalm kicking and screaming into adulthood...
<bigcalm> I'll be 35 end of June. This doesn't feel right
<MooDoo> bigcalm: that young eh!? ;)
<davmor2> bigcalm: My money is on Haley persuading you to change your mind :P
<foobarry> just turned 39
<MooDoo> 42 for me next
<foobarry> pillow crease on my face still there when i arrive at work
<foobarry> thats old age for you
<bigcalm> Heh
<bigcalm> My wife will be 42 end of May
<foobarry> mine is still 30
<foobarry> conveniently
<MooDoo> bigcalm: my wife an I share the same birthday
<bigcalm> MooDoo: does that make it a cheep or expensive day?
<jussi> "if you dont buy me one, I wont buy you one... deal?" :D
<MooDoo> jussi: that's it.
<foobarry> thats the man approach
<MooDoo> I'm worried about my kids birthdays, 18th and 21st on the same day :)
<jussi> MooDoo: sounds like heaven... :D
<MooDoo> only 2 birthdays to remember in my house lol
<davmor2> MooDoo: big party in a pub done
<jussi> or an even better suggestion... lets budget 100â¬ and buy our own damn  presents :P
<foobarry> i just got a Â£30 kobo
<foobarry> and some haribo and chocolates
<MooDoo> I want a Â£400 computer case next lol
<DJones> MooDoo: Make sure you've able to view your kids facebook postings so you can anticipate the worldwide party invitation at your house
<MooDoo> :)
<MooDoo> I want this for my birthday - http://www.45drives.com/products/order/enclosure.php
<davmor2> MooDoo: Why?
<jussi> davmor2: "because" :P
<MooDoo> davmor2: want to get into cloud storage for photographers and because I can :D
<davmor2> MooDoo: ah okay now it makes more sense
<MooDoo> davmor2: lots out there already, but not with specific features in place that I and my friends want :D
<davmor2> MooDoo: just buy a rack and populate it with blades ;)
<MooDoo> davmor2: could do but this is more fun :df
<Laney> grr
<MooDoo> wassup?
<Laney> is there a way to tell virgin to stop trying to upsell me via post
<MooDoo> Laney: no, I get it all the time.
<bashrc> Ordered a Nexus 4.  Hopefully that will allow me to test Ubuntu Touch and maybe try developing some apps
<Laney> ones specifically addressed to me rather than the generic mailshots
<MooDoo> you're doomed
<popey> bashrc: yay
<bashrc> \o/
<davmor2> Laney: do you get online billing?
<Laney> yep
<diplo> Laney: I get that as well, one guy threatened to take them to court and it stopped
<Laney> haha
<MooDoo> sad thing I i'm thinking about cancelling sky and moving to them lol
<davmor2> Laney: then return to sender and on the back put uninterested in upselling I have the perfect package  leave me be.  It's then cost them 2 postages
<bigcalm> We're looking to move house. My worry is that we'll lose our mates-rates with VM
<Laney> I ripped it up into tiny pieces already
<MooDoo> davmor2: with branson being a billionaire, I don't think postage is a problem :)
<Laney> http://www.royalmail.com/personal/help-and-support/how-do-I-stop-receiving-any-leaflets-or-unaddressed-promotional-material
<Laney> woah
<Laney> that's not this, but cool
<bashrc> are there any plans for an email app on Ubuntu Touch?
<Laney> oh what, that's just mps
<diplo> bashrc: Someone wrote one recently
<bashrc> what's it called?
<Laney> no no, it's not, god I'm confused
<davmor2> bashrc: look on google + I don't think it has a name currently
<diplo> Trojita is what it's based on
<diplo> User called boren xhang
<davmor2> bashrc: https://plus.google.com/103255629963793469067/posts/FUai6JMLQyW
<popey> there's a few people working on those
<bashrc> nice
<bashrc> thtere probably won't be a Friendica app, although there are Friendica mobile themes
<bashrc> Diaspora app might be another thing to try developing
<popey> I want to see an IM client
<popey> Bonus points if it worked with all the usual messaging systems *plus* something super secure like torchat or bitmessage
<bashrc> yes, a xabber-like app would be good
<popey> ya
<bashrc> is there an IRC app?
<popey> no
<popey> there is a terminal and ssh and irssi though â»
<MooDoo> not yet I'm guessing :D
<bashrc> the prospect of being able to run a real terminal, rather than just busybox, is nice
<foobarry> turned out my large file copy issue was due to a restrictive limits.conf on the other server, dropping the connection after 5 minutes of cpu time was used
<MartijnVdS> heh oops
<foobarry> evil
<foobarry> gmail calendar doesn't let me use a o365 ics link
<foobarry> i suspect o365 is at fault
<MooDoo> isn't it vUDS next week?
<MooDoo> ah yes it is - https://launchpad.net/sprints/uds-1403
 * MartijnVdS read UDS as USN at first. *stands down alert* :)
<MooDoo> having fun emma ;)
<awilkins> Hey emma, your client keeps dropping
<MooDoo> awilkins: great minds thing alike
<MooDoo> huh oh!
<popey> bah
<hazrpg> \o
<popey> o/
<MartijnVdS> \o/
<MooDoo> M C A ?
<amber_> o
<amber_> i am using lubuntu 14.10
<popey> Bet you're not.
<popey> 14.04 or 13.10 maybe â»
<MartijnVdS> that, or amber_ is the doctor
<MartijnVdS> and/or his companion
<davmor2> popey: :D
<amber_> haha sorry 14.04
<amber_> i got a problem with power manager
<amber_> it never boots up with the system to show my battery level#
<amber_> i need to boot it myself
<davmor2> bashrc: there is of course a web browser so there is no reason why you can't fire up the http access to freenode :)
<davmor2> bashrc: so for the delay lunch and meetings :)
<davmor2> for some reason I have the Gorillas clint eastwood in my head /me goes of to groove shark app on a device to play it
<davmor2> gorillaz even
<MooDoo> davmor2: you're just sounding silly now....learn to spell :p
<davmor2> MooDoo: http://grooveshark.com/#!/s/Clint+Eastwood/4fhGNz?src=5
<MooDoo> :)
<davmor2> MooDoo: now you too can have it stuck in your head, along with alive and kicking
<MooDoo> davmor2: and you spin me right round
<foobarry> i have a song that comes to me on the quite hours of the morning
<foobarry> and it doesn't go away
<foobarry> Oo ee oo ah ah ting tang walla walla bing bang
<MooDoo> Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious
<davmor2> foobarry: Mines normally more sinister than that like, Camouflage, chicken song, shattap a your face the list goes on
<MooDoo> whatsa matter you eh!
<MooDoo> or my fave, I was born in a town in the great uk, from a baby to a boy to a man today!
<davmor2> MooDoo: Gotta no respect
<davmor2> MooDoo: ghost town is another
<MooDoo> ssssssssss stutter rap :)
<davmor2> noones ever known what I mean from the age of nnnnnnnnnnn-thirteen
 * foobarry shoots everybody
<awilkins> No! Sleep! 'til bedtime!
<davmor2> fling a chicken in the air stick a deck chair up your nose fly a jumbo jet and bury all your clothes
<awilkins> The B-side was better
<awilkins> "I've had a nice pot noodle, but I've never had a poodle, and I've never met a nice South African! [no, he's never met a nice South African, and that's not bloody surprising man, cos they're a bunch of arrogant bastards, who hate black people]"
<awilkins> If somewhat controversial
<foobarry> rather akin to modern liberal approach of hating those perceived to hate others
<awilkins> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aeDk6ZeGNnU&noredirect=1
<davmor2> MartijnVdS, MooDoo, awilkins, foobarry: here's one for you.  Simply Red featuring Rollo and sister bliss covering Fairground :)
<foobarry> i heard a song called 'call me maybe" for the first time the other day
<foobarry> almost avoided hearing it
<awilkins> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IcTP7YWPayU
<foobarry> that'll serve me right for too many chrome windows open..window manager crash :(
<popey> bah
<popey> jailbroke an ipad 1
<popey> it installed cydia but that wont start
<popey> just flashes up
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/sjw1kl9v103txru/VID-20140303-WA0000.mp4
<daftykins> here's my mate walking to work over in Jersey this morning
<foobarry> i walked to work in a jersey too
<Laney> lovely blue skies here today
<daftykins> XD
<foobarry> been v dark since 3 here
<daftykins> foobarry: Guernsey > Jersey
<foobarry> everytime i hear jersey i think dow-dow-doooow-dow-de-dow-dowwwww
<foobarry> which is of course the bergerac theme tune
<davmor2> daftykins: pffff only half the road covered
<daftykins> ;)
<davmor2> daftykins: we have a bus lane crossroad and t junction combo at the end of the block and the entire junction floods so that is 3 roads fully submersed and lots of wet pedestrians :)
<daftykins> crikey!
<daftykins> pics please ;)
<davmor2> daftykins: it's nice and sunny here today but next time is rains I will :)
<daftykins> thank you sir
<davmor2> daftykins: during the really bad rain the bus lane was a stream and then main road wasn't too far behind :)
<daftykins> >_<
<daftykins> sometimes when cycling it's like... "how deep is it..."
<Laney> hi, my name is stereo mike
<hussain> newtoyouall
<daftykins> turns out my cat is a budding breakdancer
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/r27klcv0366hm7a/VID_20140303_173745.mp4
<daftykins> http://amirunningxp.com/
<daftykins> this is fun
<davmor2> daftykins: it's even more fun if you click on  keep your os up-to-date and running smoothly's more info button cause then I seem to be on windows 8.1 who knew :D
<daftykins> err
<daftykins> what
<daftykins> the yellow 'LEARN MORE' ?
<davmor2> daftykins: yeap
<shauno> why did I read that as amiga running xp :/
<daftykins> davmor2: that's an advertising page for 8.1 though, it's not telling you you're running it ;)
<davmor2> daftykins: yeah but how many people will be caught out by it :)
<daftykins> i think it's pretty clear :(
<ali1234> XP isn't going to suddenly explode just because it is not supported
<davmor2> daftykins: NO it isn't it say learn more about how to keep my os uptodate ;)
<daftykins> ali1234: shh, don't let people know that
<daftykins> it will be great to see the back of it
<ali1234> i don't see any practical difference between XP and 7 in that respect
<ali1234> it's still the same users with the same stupid "problems"
<davmor2> daftykins: if it said "How do I get a supported version of windows, Learn More"  I wouldn't have an issue with it :)
<daftykins> ;)
<diddledan> impressive fail: http://metro.co.uk/2014/03/03/john-travolta-introduces-indina-menzel-as-adele-at-oscars-4389903/
<mapps> evening
<mapps> #
<daftykins> heyup
<jennie> any solution for this ? I am facing same problem http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1998543
<shauno> that's usually recursive links.  you're hitting it copying from a windows disk though?
<mapps> is itsup daftykins
<mapps> err
<mapps> lol meant whatsup daftykins
<daftykins> XD
<daftykins> hey, playing good ol' worms 2 over xbox with some pals
<ColeAppSauce> ali1234, there's a new annoying 120mm Fan on the market I see , http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=PaoY1fyreSw
<ColeAppSauce> I note little mention of Fan noise in their Advert.
<ColeAppSauce> Althou The sharkoon Silent Eagle seems to be still going well
<ColeAppSauce> Not sure who''ll win , flytenow or Carma ?  [ https://car.ma/ ] anywayz off to beddingtonz  , bye . http://fastcoexist.com/3026971/theres-a-new-way-to-ride-share-in-the-air
<ColeAppSauce> leaves.
<dogmatic69> anyone on the shropshire lug?
<shauno> yaknow. I'm not entire sure where shropshire is.  it sounds like one of those places americans made up to sound english :|
<daftykins> :D
<dogmatic69> lol
<dogmatic69> between wales and birmingham
<daftykins> i'm pretty sure Yorkshire's a state of mind
<dogmatic69> damn cold tonight
<shauno> between .... that's the M6, no?
<dogmatic69> nope
<dogmatic69> M6 is basically through bham
<shauno> my geography really is bad.  that's the only thing I can picture between b'ham and cheshire
<daftykins> cheshire is just a name of cat
<shauno> I've been there once.  my only memory spending way too long on the same roundabout while mum tried to read a map
<daftykins> aaah, back in the days of maps
<shauno> oh those days aren't over.  if you handed my mother a smartphone, she'd stare at you until you wanted to die
<daftykins> note to self: no more holidays with Mrs.Shauno
 * neuro has spied a 10.04 install on his network
<neuro> do-release-upgrade is doing it's thang as we speak
<daftykins> :>
<neuro> only 3.5 yrs late
<neuro> pretty sure this was a physical 8.04 install that i migrated to a ESXi vm
<neuro> then did a release upgrade to 10.04
<neuro> decided to have a poke at it to install a package and was like "why is this saying 'lucid' when doing an apt-get update???"
#ubuntu-uk 2014-03-04
<shauno> I'm still using lucid.  it's still supported!
<neuro> yeah but with le packages du ancient
<shauno> pffft.  I prefer to think of them as "tried and trusted"
<daftykins> ^
<daftykins> i'm typing from a lucid VM for irssi alone
<neuro> precise is tried and trusted
<daftykins> aaand my local web server is still lucid
<neuro> lucid is like le old
<neuro> however
<daftykins> i might skip precise and go straight to trusty, but i know it's gonna be constant upgrades galore =/
<neuro> i'm not deliberately slagging lucid for the sake of it
<neuro> i just prefer my "cluster" to have release parity
<shauno> I've just been putting off upgrading because I tend to spawn a new VM, get everything up and going, and then kill the old one
<shauno> which means an IP change, and this machine is my dns server
<neuro> at some point i'm going to migrate my external-facing name servers to route53
<shauno> I like to keep them under my control because if I stop doing things myself, I completely forget how to and turn into an apple user
<neuro> well, that seemed to go swimmingl
<neuro> y
<neuro> shauno: once you learn how to work with bind zone files, you never forget
<diddledan> the uk has a eurovision entry: http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b03y10yq/Eurovision_Song_Contest_2014_The_UK_Launch/
<shauno> \o/
<shauno> iplayer says I'm not allowed to see it.  I assume it's a state secret for now
<jussi> shauno: or maybe just that bad that yyour computer is trying to protect you... :P
<jennie>  I am trying to do exact same thing and I am facing exact same problem. any solution for this ? http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1998543
<jussi> jennie: you want to preserve the whole disk, right ?
<jussi> !info dd
<lubotu3> Package dd does not exist in saucy
<jussi> bah
<jennie> jussi: I want to copy my C drive to other drive in the same PC for backup
<jussi> jennie: I havent time to explain it properly, but if you are on linux, you can use dd. (dd if=path/to/cdrive of backup.img)
<jussi> google some
<jussi> err
<jussi> dd if=path/to/cdrive of=backup.img
<jennie> jussi: I have to copy all directories and files in C :  except " windows " directory.
<jussi> jennie: sorry, I cant help more right now, got to run
<MooDoo> morning all
<mapps> hey
<mapps> whays up
<mapps> time to watch the following
<mapps> hmm strange
<mapps> my crontab entry didnt run
<MartijnVdS> mapps: check /var/log/auth.log and /var/log/syslog
<MartijnVdS> mapps: crontab syntax might be incorrect, or file permissions
<mapps> ah it did run but the file my script create went into a diff dir than expected
<mapps> MartijnVdS,  what do you use to stop bruce force ssh i was reading up on it and there's a few options..just ive got quite a lot of attempts in auth.log
<MooDoo> mapps: I use denyhosts.
<mapps> thanks is it easy to configure?
<MooDoo> yeah only issue is that if you block your own IP it causes grief ;)
<mapps> thanks will look into that later:)
<diplo> Morning all
<mapps> morning diplo
<MartijnVdS> mapps: I use fail2ban
<MartijnVdS> mapps: you can also configure it to block IPs that are h4x0ring your apache server, or anything that logs failed login attempts
<mapps> aha thats handy
<mapps> i was going to say i should probably look at doing somethig for apache
<diplo> +1 for Fail2Ban
<MooDoo> ok apt-cache finds fail2ban - ban hosts that cause multiple authentication errors
<MooDoo> might give that a try too
<diplo> By default it does ssh I believe, need to enable the others, lots of info on the net though and configs are fairly straight forward
<MartijnVdS> yeah, you have to configure the others
<MartijnVdS> but the config file is easy to read/expand
<MartijnVdS> and you can write your own log filters for finding unauthorized logins if you want
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Grammar Day!  :-D
<MartijnVdS> JamesTait: no no no, it's Pancake Day!
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS: +1
<bashrc> sadly, polar bear day is over
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: A day to eat pancakes sounds a lot saner than the whole "carnaval" thing they have in the south of the Netherlands.. 4 days of binge drinking and partying.. *shudder*
<bashrc> carnival of pancakes?
<MartijnVdS> bashrc: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnival_in_the_Netherlands
<JamesTait> MartijnVdS, carnival of pancakes sprinkled with apostrophes?
<mapps> installed MartijnVdS  and setup for ssh that was easy
<MartijnVdS> JamesTait: Just the pancakes please. I like them alot. :P
<DJones> mapps: How did you install MartijnVdS, was it just a straight sudo apt-get install MartijnVdS :)
<MartijnVdS> MaaS.. MartijnVdS as a Service?
<MooDoo> DJones: you can't sudo apt-get install MartijnVdS as there are dependancy failures
<bashrc> :)
<MooDoo> ;)
<DJones> MooDoo: :)
<JamesTait> DJones, I think it was a git clone. ;)
<MartijnVdS> JamesTait: oi!
<MartijnVdS> ;)
<JamesTait> :D
<mapps> heh DJones  :D
<mapps> now these pesky people will be blocked
<mapps> china/brazil/france trying all kinds of usernames
<mapps> guest/staff/a and of course root lol
<diplo> You could if you're having issues block Russia/china etc if you're not expecting areas like that to access
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<MooDoo> brobostigon: good morning sir
<brobostigon> morning Mr MooDoo
<DJones> Will somebody please go out and shoot the plonker that developed mysearchdial crapware, preferably using a time machine to go back 10-15 years and then do the shooting to make sure the bugger doesn'tr release the junk into the wild
<IdleOne> DJones: not condoning murder by time travel, but perhaps going back and killing the grandfather to be certain.
<GingerDog> or just providing him with contraception at the right moment.
<DJones> IdleOne: GingerDog: Either of those would be a suitable solution
<davmor2> Morning all
<foobarry> anyone still use solaris sparc here?
<foobarry> spun up a t1000 hoping the single threads would run a lot faster than a 280R, seem *much* slower
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: you spun up a T-1000?! http://www.sideshowtoy.com/mas_assets/jpg/900996_press01-001.jpg
<MartijnVdS> JamesTait: http://www.reddit.com/r/britishproblems/comments/1zil2e/i_just_overheard_someone_wishing_someone_else_a/
<JamesTait> MartijnVdS, St Pancakes!
<foobarry> crashing LO-draw, also crashes LO-calc...:(
<cocoa117> the iptables MASQUERADE is only apply to private IP address range right? when I want to route IP traffic from internal network with computers on non-private IP range I don't have to use it, do i?
<MartijnVdS> cocoa117: it applies to anything you set it to apply to :)
<MartijnVdS> cocoa117: you need it to connect from a private address to a public one
<MartijnVdS> cocoa117: you don't need it for priv->priv or pub->pub, as long as you have routing set up
<cocoa117> MartijnVdS, so that means by appling the iptables MASQUERADE, the traffic will be showing coming from firewall rather then from internal client?
<MartijnVdS> cocoa117: indeed
<MartijnVdS> also called "NAT", or "network address translation", or SNAT (source NAT)
<MartijnVdS> (as it mangles at the source of the (outgoing) connection)
<cocoa117> MartijnVdS, got it, the NAT in my mind always associated with private IP addresses. Never thought about the non-private IP ranges
<MartijnVdS> cocoa117: not many people NAT connections from public addresses, as that would be silly :)
<cocoa117> MartijnVdS, I do, in this case. by the way, 1.8.32.11/13 is public IP range right?
<cocoa117> MartijnVdS, yes it is from China
<MartijnVdS> cocoa117: it is.
<MartijnVdS> descr:          KNET Techonlogy (BeiJing) Co.,Ltd.
<cocoa117> MartijnVdS, got it, yes i got same results
<MartijnVdS> they can't spell Technology 8-)
<cocoa117> ha, :)
<smittix> Morning all
<knightwise> hey everyone :)
<MooDoo> hello all
<MooDoo> long time no see smittix :p
<smittix> heh
<smittix> Yeah in and out ;)
<brobostigon> pebble android beta11, lets see if things have been fixed.
<brobostigon> app-2-beta11
<MooDoo> brobostigon: beach robot and alpha.....are we playing word association?
<brobostigon> MooDoo: no.
<MooDoo> brobostigon: sorry just trying to make people smile
<ali1234> i do wonder why software companies release update after update without fixing any of the glaring bugs
<brobostigon> MooDoo: ah, i see.
<MooDoo> ali1234: quite normal to be honest
<ali1234> but why do they even bother?
<brobostigon> actually, it has improved an awful lot, and lots been fixed.
<MooDoo> ali1234: releasing new features makes it more attractive so they'll do that first
<ali1234> they never release new features though
<ali1234> router firmwares are great examples of this
<ali1234> they'll release maybe 10 updates in the course of a router's lifetime
<ali1234> none will add any features or fix any bugs
<ali1234> if you look at the source changes they are trivial
<ali1234> seems fairly normal for firmware in anything really
<foobarry> i had a bug fixed in router firmware
<foobarry> adsl router
<foobarry> resolved issues with adsl2
<ali1234> i had the opposite experience actually
<ali1234> the update broke adsl and also made qos useless
<brobostigon> no wacking great bugs yet, all is good,
<ikonia> curious to if anyone has any preferences or recommendations to open source CMDB's I've got an oppertunity to do something different from my normal prefernce and wondered if anyone had one they recommend and why
<MartijnVdS> ikonia: CMDB?
<awilkins> Config Management DB
<awilkins> THink ICT Asset Management +
<MartijnVdS> ah.. not like chef/puppet
<MartijnVdS> /ansible/cfengine/etc.
<ikonia> nah, although that's what I was actually using, a puppet extension
<ikonia> but I need something a bit stand alone
<ikonia> just wondered if there was any people would say "yeah, that's good" as I'm just reading now
<MartijnVdS> vim inventory.txt ;)
<foobarry> ikonia: for pcs or servers
<ikonia> not the best suggestion.....
<ikonia> foobarry: for "everything"
<foobarry> good luck
<foobarry> agentless?
<ikonia> pc,server,switch,router,firewall, etc
<ikonia> agent or agentless, doesn't matter really
<foobarry> if < 100 desktops then invetory.xls
<ikonia> just looking for food for thought really
<foobarry> if > 100 then spiceworks etc
<foobarry> or office junior
<ikonia> spiceworks....what's that
<foobarry> if only servers and switches then netdisco+racktables
<ikonia>  basically "all infrastructure"
<foobarry> or use facter from puppet to pump into mysql and use php to manage via web page
<jussi> openerp has asset management stuff, (not sure how that suits what you are after)
<jussi> (because Ive no idea what a cmdb was until I googled it)
<ikonia> foobarry: don't want to write anything, off the shelf, and as I said don't want to use puppet as it will be for things not controlled/managed by puppet too
<foobarry> as i say, good luck
<foobarry> hire a teenager and deploy inventory.xls
<foobarry> or use the asset db
<foobarry> that the finance dept will give u
<popey> Afternoon
<MooDoo> hi popey
<daftykins> client texts me saying their 'system is slow'
<daftykins> so i connect in, sure enough having some serious latency issues
<daftykins> http://pastebin.com/GApCEbvZ
<daftykins> get that pinging their first hop out
<ikonia> foobarry: can't be that tough, there appear to be quite a few off the shelf cmdb's
<ali1234> whoever sent me a moderator invite on reddit needs to look at my posting history. i am a massive troll on reddit.
<bashrc> :)
 * daftykins looks shocked
<daftykins> ;)
<popey> moderator invite to what?
<bashrc> I rarely use reddit
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<bashrc> morning
<bigcalm> Are opendns' dns servers being pants for anybody today?
<bigcalm> Lookups are taking an age
<MooDoo> I use googles. so no idea :p
<bashrc> I've never investigated it, but I wonder if it's possible to run your own dns server
<bigcalm> It is
<ali1234> of course it is....
<bigcalm> But it would still have to perform lookups against other DNS servers
<ali1234> exactly
<bashrc> yes I expect so
<ali1234> it's more for when you want to control the DNS of your own domain
<ali1234> ubuntu runs a local caching dns server anyway
 * bigcalm moves over to google's DNS servers
<ali1234> i use google's, they're much better than opendns
<MooDoo> yeah mee to
<bashrc> I don't really know how dns works, but I'd guess that it has to automatically synchronise with other dns servers
<ali1234> there's no synchronization as such
<bashrc> 8.8.8.8
<bashrc> oh
<ali1234> records are cached
<bigcalm> Is the 2nd 8.8.4.4 or 4.4.4.4?
<daftykins> record propogation
<bashrc> so what if a domain name stays the same but the underlying IP address changes?
<ali1234> records have a ttl
<bigcalm> That's where TTL comes into play
<bashrc> is that a sort of synchronisation?
<daftykins> no
<daftykins> it's a value in seconds of how long to keep a record for before requerying it
<bashrc> ah
<ali1234> synchronization implies pushing
<daftykins> thus anyone holding the IP for a domain in cache gets instructed to ask for an update
<ali1234> the cached dns records aren't updated until someone asks for it
<awilkins> Time To Live
<daftykins> bashrc: think of it like requesting your phone number gets changed in the phone book, it's correct at source but everyone else needs to go get the latest directory print to know ;)
<bashrc> yes
<awilkins> 8.8.8.8 is Google's DNS, no?
<bashrc> it is
 * awilkins reads further up
<daftykins> it's one of theirs yes
<awilkins> Apparently my router just proxies whatever it gets told by DHCP
<awilkins> my /etc/resolv.conf says 127.0.1.1
<awilkins> Hmm, that's a local address innit?
<daftykins> yep loopback
<daftykins> wow my cat is in a serious playful mood today
<awilkins> Probably got hold of some black market catnip
<daftykins> quick spot of tail-chase breakdancing followed by attacking a key on a window sill upstairs
<ali1234> awilkins: because ubuntu runs dnsmasq locally as a caching proxy
<MartijnVdS> resolvconv daemon
<MartijnVdS> or scripts
<MartijnVdS> or whatever
<ali1234> by default it's dnsmasq
<MartijnVdS> yeah but resolvconf manages /etc/resolv.conf and points it at dnsmasq afaik?
<awilkins> Yus
<awilkins> Router is also running dnsmasq
<ali1234> yes they often do
<awilkins> Router is running OpenWRT
<awilkins> (rather old build of it)
<awilkins> Having sshd on your router 4tw
<ali1234> ssh is really slow on those things :/
<awilkins> All I use it for is tunnelling traffic mostly
<awilkins> Can peg my upstream bandwidth, so it's fast enough
<ali1234> bandwidth isn't the issue... the slooooow cpu in most routers is
<ali1234> unless you have a x86 routerboard or something
<awilkins> ali1234, No, it's a Broadcom
<awilkins> It's ancient
<ali1234> so MIPS then... and not even a good one
<awilkins> Has crappy WIFI but it all still works well enough that I haven't desired the pain of changing it
<MooDoo> my router just patched a major flaw in it sigh!
<ali1234> i have a MIPS NAS somewhere, it can't even sustain 10mb and that's without encryption
<ali1234> speaking of NAS, should i get a kirkwood one that can run debian or red sleeve, or just get a HP microserver?
<ali1234> i'm going to put it in a cupboard so it should be low power/ low heat
<awilkins> I suppose I could use my ISPs router instead and stick a Pi in the loop to do my current routing
<ali1234> meh, Pi isn't exactly fast either
<diddledan> I've got an RB2011 box doing my routing
<awilkins> Tried to use my laptop as a bridge for my Pi but bridging wlan0 to eth0 is fiddly
<diddledan> http://routerboard.com/RB2011L
<ali1234> nah, it's easy
<awilkins> ali1234, Fiddlier than typing two commands :-)
<ali1234> well yeah
<awilkins> You need to install some packages and configure them
<ali1234> it's three commands
<diddledan> three-finger-salute
<awilkins> "Level4 RouterOS license. "
<awilkins> I presume you can run something non-commercial on it?
<diddledan> no you can only run routeros afaik
<awilkins> Splitter!
<awilkins> :-P
<smittix> Does anyone know if there is a version of ubuntu to install on a samsung galaxy tab 8"?
<diddledan> if you had the time it would be possible to run a linux-derivative on there
<diddledan> I think it uses uboot which is open to the world
<smittix> I need to look into it then.
<diddledan> smittix: don't know
<diddledan> smittix: there are many ports available/in-progress by "the community"
<jussi> smittix: its "likely" but it probably isnt complete
<diddledan> smittix: whether anyone is doing one for the tab 8, though I don't know
<smittix> Ok, thank you both.
<BigRedS_> Is there some new fashionable replacement for dpkg --get-selections for getting the same packages on one machine installed on another?
<dogmatic69_> lol http://esolangs.org/wiki/IRP
<ali1234> is there a way to give google my dropbox password and have them suck everything into drive?
<dogmatic69_> ali1234:  not used it https://mover.io
<ali1234> meh, i dont want a third party service
<dogmatic69_> ali1234:  how about http://www.lbreda.com/grive/start
<dogmatic69_> you can just sync the dropbox folder to drive
<ali1234> the thing is, i don't want to deal with dropbox
<dogmatic69_> well do it once, then delete db
<ali1234> i can't
<ali1234> people insist on using it to share files with me
<dogmatic69_> oh you dont have dropbox already
<dogmatic69_> I see...
<ali1234> i have dropbox
<ali1234> i don't want to install their software
<ali1234> i don't want to log in to their website
<ali1234> i just want a copy of the files people shared with me on dropbox inside my drive
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: Synology's 5.0 firmware beta has an app that can connect to both.. I guess if you select the same directory, it'll sync them of for you
<dogmatic69_> well both drive and dropbox have an api so it would be possible to write a script and run it on a cron
<MartijnVdS> though you'd need a NAS from them 8-)
<ali1234> i don't want to sync the files over my broadband either
<dogmatic69_> server?
<MooDoo> yay nas
<diddledan> YayNAS?
<diddledan> :-p
<MooDoo> :p
<diddledan> is that a new product?
<diddledan> if not, it should be
<diddledan> do it!
<MooDoo> lol I meant yay       nas :)  I love nas
<ali1234> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qh9TIYXKSFk
<smittix> ali1234: Heh, strange. I have just been looking how to migrate all of my stuff from onedrive to dropbox.
<ali1234> dropbox are really pushy. they keep emailing me to "finish setting up dropbox" with a link for their installer
<smittix> I'm sure you can stop those coming through.
<ali1234> sure, i can just filter them on gmail
<smittix> No I mean I'm sure you can stop them as in unsubscribe.
<ali1234> i know :)
<smittix> heh
<smittix> Ubuntu looks lovely on my new laptop. What a difference better resolution makes.
<MooDoo> smittix: 14.04?
<smittix> 13.10
<MooDoo> smittix: even better of 14.04 as they have corner smoothing etc :) looks wicked
<smittix> :)
<smittix> MooDoo: Just submitted a photograph for the Wallpapers in 14.04
<smittix> http://www.flickr.com/photos/smittix/10742521275/in/pool-2535978@N21
<smittix> Don't know how well it will do but it's worth a try.
<diddledan> I doubt they'll be able to use it - all rights reversed
<smittix> I will change the licencing to open
<smittix> Forgot about that
<diddledan> :-) if it's your photo then obviously you'll be able to assign rights willy-nilly. I was assuming you'd just linked a random photo :-p
<smittix> No heh, it's my photo.
<knightwise> Harg !
<knightwise> I never new starting your own company would be that intesive
<diddledan> knightwise: own company?!
<diddledan> what are you selling?
<knightwise> Freelance consultant
<knightwise> Whore for Hire :)
<daftykins> :O
<bashrc> Hired gun
<daftykins> that's what i'm trying to setup
<knightwise> Still a little bit of a secret. Will tell the folks at work tomorrow
<knightwise> :) indeed "guns for hire" :)
<daftykins> are they shiny?
 * diddledan tries to flex his guns
<TheOpenSourcerer> knightwise: What do you consult on?
<knightwise> The have a STAR :)
<diddledan> hmm, flabby
<knightwise> TheOpenSourcerer: IT architecture, change management , service delivery , infra design
<knightwise> and dragging companies into the 21st century (kicking and screaming if I have to)
<TheOpenSourcerer> OK thanks. Don't need any of that right now but will keep you in mind.
<knightwise> TheOpenSourcerer: where are you located ?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Farnham, Surrey.
<TheOpenSourcerer> But that is not really important
<diddledan> not far from me
<TheOpenSourcerer> we have customers all over the place, many we never actually visit
<TheOpenSourcerer> Like the ones in the USA :-(
<diddledan> concord ftw
<diddledan> oh wait, it lost
<diddledan> dammit >.<
<TheOpenSourcerer> Yeah - I missed that one. Went to the F1 grand Prix in Monaco instead.
<diddledan> the world got slightly larger when the concord died
<TheOpenSourcerer> Had the choice to go to NY and watch a boxing match and come back on Concorde or go to Monaco for 4 days and party hard...
<diddledan> up until that point it was gradually shrinking
<TheOpenSourcerer> Guess which one won ;-)
<diddledan> I should eat lunch
<TheOpenSourcerer> I should think about heading off to parent's evening
<bashrc> otherwise you will get a bad report
<TheOpenSourcerer> My kids are perfect :-D
<foobarry> everyones kids are perfect and everyones wife is the most beautiful in the world
<TheOpenSourcerer> Their reports are always *way* better than mine ever were...
<daftykins> TheOpenSourcerer: sounds like they're secretly Stewey from family guy, covering their world domination antics
<smittix> What's a decent RDP client these days? I normally use Remmina but I heard it's not actively developed?
<MartijnVdS> vinagre?
<MartijnVdS> with rdesktop integration?
<smittix> I will have a look, thanks
<smittix> Hmm, keyboard is US layout despite UK being chosen.
<daftykins> how rude
<smittix> heh
<bigcalm> That physically happened to me
<bigcalm> Ordered a UK layout keyboard from the USA. They shipped a US layout
<bigcalm> Still have it under my bed. Anybody want a US layout keyboard? :D
<foobarry> chiclet or big keys?
<daftykins> lawd no
<daftykins> they put pipe in an obscene place!
<daftykins> and that single height enter! *shudder*
<bashrc> If you bought a decent keyboard then you'd just be able to remove and swap the keys around
<bashrc> i.e. removable keycaps
<ali1234> 12345678/98/*-+
<daftykins> bashrc: er, you know that doesn't work for a US layout right?
<daftykins> their actual style is different
<Azelphur> wow, the DPS are stupid, they refuse to accept evidence through dropbox, they want me to attach 100+mb videos to an email
<Azelphur> >.<
<ali1234> do it
<Azelphur> can't, gmail limits 25mb
<ali1234> split it
<Azelphur> lol
<Azelphur> could do
<ali1234> what is DPS anyway?
<Azelphur> deposit protection scheme, former landlord is trying to scam me
<bashrc> email bombs!
<ali1234> the couch guy?
<Azelphur> ali1234: couch guy?
<daftykins> the Azelphur's-gonna-go-nuts-and-trash-my-property guy?
<ali1234> yeah there was a counch outside your house or something
<Azelphur> daftykins: yup that's the one
<daftykins> winner \o/
<Azelphur> he told DPS I left the place unclean
<Azelphur> xD
<daftykins> hmm who did i use for DPS
<daftykins> i guess you didn't have snaps upon leaving? :(
<Azelphur> daftykins: actually, I have before and after video
<daftykins> mydeposits.co.uk i think?
<daftykins> oic :D
<Azelphur> place was left in a far better condition than I arrived, the video shows that
<daftykins> but they just don't have the tech :(
<Azelphur> hehe
<Azelphur> https://www.dropbox.com/s/8rmrhid16luh2ag/2012-11-27%2020.11.46.mp4 before, notice busted kitchen, splinters all over the floor, cutlery, horrible toilet seat, etc. After, https://www.dropbox.com/s/d7s3ro909ayg94c/2013-05-12%2013.50.18.mp4 all fixed up and tidy
<Azelphur> apparently the state I left the place in warranted "cleaning"
<ali1234> before looks okay to me
<mapps> yep access _log full of people trying all sorts on my apache
<mapps> crazy /cgi-bin and massive strings etc heh
<popey> happens to us all
<mapps> how can i stop it?
<popey> you cant
<popey> firewall off your webserver
<mapps> fail2band will auto block people doing it a lot but thats all
<Azelphur> ali1234: sure it was /okay/ that's why I moved in, but point is it's much cleaner in after
 * daftykins slaps Azelphur's hands once again for portrait videos
<Azelphur> lol
<ali1234> the bathroom looks kind of dirtier in the after video
<mapps> is there anything i could to do to make my apache more secure then?
<daftykins> i used to change a variable that stopped it showing its' exact version number
<foobarry> block the whole of china
<ali1234> block the whole of china, india, eastern europe, and america
<ali1234> wait i forgot someone
<bashrc> block all the countries!
<foobarry> brazil
<ali1234> no reason to block brazil
<foobarry> and those 8 guys on teh antarctic station
<foobarry> and wales
<foobarry> just for fun
<daftykins> XD
<mapps> heh
<mapps> 68.49.8.147 - - [04/Mar/2014:12:12:47 +0000] "GET /HNAP1/ HTTP/1.1" 404 204
<mapps> HNAP?
<shauno> http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/37690/exploit
<daftykins> mapps: do you run one of those D-Links 0o
<shauno> you don't need one for it to show up in logs; you'll still get drive-bys
<mapps> nope daftykins  rubbish o2 wirelessbox (thomson 780wl)
<mapps> O_O
<mapps> :)
<daftykins> yeah, was just checking
<daftykins> figured it was a hammer-all style of thing
<shauno> they're only really worrying if any of them aren't 404 ;)
<daftykins> :>
<daftykins> this makes me lul
<daftykins> http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/share/de004f24c8feb5d8408d296a9ed65fc5.html
<daftykins> look at that fine connection there
<daftykins> first hop pings are anywhere from 6ms to 3,5 seconds
<mapps> lol
<mapps> so got fail2ban setup for apache and sshd - should i add any ip range blocks to iptables?
<mapps> hm
<Laney> 0.0.0.0/0
<mapps> hah
<bigcalm> How would you set that up for IPv6?
<mapps> could someone try ssh to my machine multiple times using wrong user/pass? just wanna see if it blocks you
<diddledan> mapps: what if I use the correct password?
<daftykins> X
<daftykins> D
<daftykins> mapps : mapps123
<daftykins> GOTCHA!
<MartijnVdS> mapps: fail2ban will do that
<mapps> lol
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: there's ip6tables -- fail2ban also uses that afaik
<diddledan> argh, itchy bum
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: tmi
<mapps> did someone try for me?
<diddledan> what's the addy?
<mapps> 94.193.78.219
<MartijnVdS> ssh: connect to host 94.193.78.219 port 22: Connection refused
<MartijnVdS> it blocked me! after only 3 tries!
<diddledan> I believe I'm now blocked
<mapps> ya
<mapps> i set it to 3 tries
<mapps> Chain fail2ban-ssh (1 references)
<mapps> target     prot opt source               destination
<mapps> REJECT     all  --  li680-63.members.linode.com  anywhere             reject-with icmp-port-unreachable
<mapps> REJECT     all  --  hetinternetisstuk.xs4all.nl  anywhere             reject-with icmp-port-unreachable
<mapps> maybe i should put it to 5? although i thought 3 is enough
<diddledan> top one is me
<MartijnVdS> mapps: I have it on 5
<mapps> :D
<MartijnVdS> mapps: note the it will also lock *you* out if you do it wrong
<mapps> is there any way i can stop/restrict those pests doing the cgi-bin posting and stuff to apache..not totally comfortable with that
<MartijnVdS> mapps: also, note that you can disable password auth completely in sshd, so you can only log in using keys
<mapps> yea i thought about that but then i wouldnt be able to login from work i dont think
<MartijnVdS> mapps: yeah, see /etc/fail2ban/jail.conf
<mapps> i tried some config for apache and fail2ban but it gave me errors when restarting
<mapps> yea ive enabled all the default for apache
<mapps> do you use anything else?
<MartijnVdS> mapps: you can add multiple keys to your account (in ~/.ssh/authorized_keys) and keep one key at work
<MartijnVdS> I don't
<mapps> another thing. if someone was nmap'ing me where would that be logged on my machine
<mapps> or would it not by default?
<MartijnVdS> mapps: that's harder to detect
<mapps> ah
<mapps> thought that might be the case
<MartijnVdS> mapps: scanlogd looks promising. or portsentry.
<mapps> cool will check them thanks
<mapps> portsentry sounds good MartijnVdS
<MartijnVdS> mapps: but is it "port-sentry" or "ports-entry"
<mapps> ports-entry ;D
<mapps> hm i wonder how well it works tho
<mapps> port 111?
<mapps> hm odd syslog showed my laptop IP as connecting to my ubuntu box on port 111 and said now blocked
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: I meant the equivalent of 0.0.0.0/0
 * ball decides to have a look at Ubuntu 13.10.
<ball> ...seems to take forever to install but that's because it's fetching things from the Internet, from the looks of things.
<daubers> Evening
<ball> Afternoon.
<diddledan> night
 * daubers waits for 13.04 to install
<daubers> or 13.10
 * daubers needs coffee
<diddledan> 14.04 \o/
<ball> Coffee sounds like a plan.
<ball> I'll go and put some on, now.
<ball> I'd have tea but we don't have a kettle at work
<ball> ...not sure I trust the water cooler thing.
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: ::
<ball> What is an IBus?
<ball> Oh wow, it magically detected our printers.
<maps|wrk> hi
<maps|wrk> could someone run an nmap port scan on my IP please..want to see if portsentry works right :D
 * lopta tries a .deb
<lopta> maps|wrk: Sure, hang on.
<maps|wrk> nmap -v -sS -sS -sV -A -O -P0-65535 94.193.78.219
<maps|wrk> hopefully portsentry will pick it up:)
<lopta> Wierd. I can look it up but can't route to it for some reason.
<maps|wrk> nmap didnt work? hm
<maps|wrk> i dont see anything in syslog monitorring it atm
<lopta> int route_dst_generic(const sockaddr_storage*, route_nfo*, const char*, const sockaddr_storage*): Failed to obtain system routes: sys_route* getsysroutes_dnet(int*, char*, size_t): sysroutes_dnet_find_interfaces() failed
<lopta> Do you have the U.S. blocked? :-)
<maps|wrk> havent blocked anywhere atm, so you cant even traceroute my ip?
 * lopta tries it
<maps|wrk> seems odd, wonder why
<lopta> Is there a maximum number of hops?
<maps|wrk> not sure, i couldnt stop you being able to traceroute my ip though? surely you'd still reach the ISPs routers at least?
<diddledan> the scan type requires root privs apparently
<maps|wrk> ya
<maps|wrk> sudo before it then;p
<diddledan> it's scannerising
<maps|wrk> hm and nothing in my logs yet
<maps|wrk> got syslog open tail -f /var/log/syslog
<maps|wrk> surely it should detect you and block
<diddledan> 50% done
<maps|wrk> gah
<maps|wrk> why isnt it working
<maps|wrk> back to the config file i guess
<lopta> maps|wrk: I'm on hop 45 and still waiting.
<maps|wrk> lopta whats the latest hop
<maps|wrk> this seems odd
<lopta> * * *
<maps|wrk> last with an IP?
<lopta> le i guess
<lopta> 17:00 < lopta> maps|wrk: I'm on hop 45 and still waiting.
<lopta> 17:00 < maps|wrk> lopta whats the latest hop
<lopta> sorry
<maps|wrk> 162.202.67.158 <--- your IP? i'll see if i can traceroute to you
<lopta> Hang on.
<lopta>  7  telefonica-international-wholesale.ethernet21-1.ar9.lon3.gblx.net (64.212.32.246)
<maps|wrk> hmm
<lopta> That was about 48 hops ago though.
<lopta> Everything since then has been * * *
<diddledan> my own traceroute blackholes after 195.66.237.189 (195.66.237.189)  9.906 ms  13.794 ms  11.996 ms
<diddledan> that's hop4
<lopta> diddledan: We're coming at it from different angles ;-)
<maps|wrk> lets see where i get to with lopta s ip :)
<lopta> Oh good. Now it works.
<lopta> I've got ssh, http and https, squid and http-alt.
<diddledan> what did you do?
<lopta> (port 8000?)
<maps|wrk> hop 24, quite a few misses though 16-18 *** then 21-29 *****
<maps|wrk> so a lot of missing hoops
<lopta> diddledan: I waited ;-)
<maps|wrk> ah 8000 shoutcast
<lopta> 64 hops.
<maps|wrk> i had 30~ to your IP with a fair few *s
<maps|wrk> seems weird?
<lopta> maps|wrk: It's uphill your way though. ;-)
<maps|wrk> again 16,17.18 *** / 21-29 *** then i end at hop 20 with an IP
<maps|wrk> 20  99-59-192-239.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net (99.59.192.239)  154.354 ms  156.099 ms  155.852 ms 21  * * *
<lopta> Oh. I was forgetting that I'm in Michigan.
<lopta> Ah, that's it!
<lopta> I'm running irssi in another state.
<maps|wrk> ah
<lopta> ...so it's reasonable to see a different number of hops.
<lopta> I'm in Illinois but I'm running irssi in Michigan
<maps|wrk> yea
<maps|wrk> but
<lopta> Also, I need more coffee.
<maps|wrk> diddledan:'s ip 7-27 ****
<maps|wrk> what  the hell
<diddledan> o_O
<diddledan> my ip is 151.229.92.11?
<maps|wrk> ya didnt get there
<diddledan> according to /whois anyway
<diddledan> this client is annoying in that it doesn't respect ipv4 vs ipv6 per the spec
<maps|wrk> root@frogs:/etc/default# ps aux | grep port                                                           root      1594  0.0  0.0   2216   320 ?        Ss   22:02   0:00 /usr/sbin/portsentry -stcp root      1600  0.0  0.0   2216   488 ?        Ss   22:02   0:00 /usr/sbin/portsentry -sudp
<diddledan> it has a toggle switch for "prefer ipv6 over ipv4" which when on an ipv4-only network causes a complete failure to connect
<maps|wrk> running but seeminglyu ignoring nmap scans
<maps|wrk> :(
<lopta> diddledan: I see http and pptp on your IP (if it's the one you mentioned)
<lopta> (fwiw)
<diddledan> http?
<lopta> I wonder what ports I have open.
<diddledan> what's that go to I wonder
<lopta> ftp, ssh and a couple of X11s.
<lopta> Odd that VNC doesn't show up.
<maps|wrk> router?
<maps|wrk> owncloud
<lopta> maps|wrk: That was run against 127.0.0.1
<lopta> ;-)
<maps|wrk> Access to the application you were trying to use has been blocked in accordance with company policy. Please contact your system administrator if you believe this is in error.  User: uk36officet  Application: owncloud
<maps|wrk> that was trying to access diddledan s ip
<maps|wrk> lol
<diddledan> aah, it's my owncloud
<maps|wrk> yea
<maps|wrk> heh
<lopta> Oh, so the ubuntu galaxy button is for searching?
<diddledan> forgot I had that running :-p
 * lopta stumbles around in search of a Start menu
<maps|wrk> any suggestions as to why this pesky thing isnt working?
<diddledan> the "proper" url is http://cloud.bowlhat.net/
<lopta> Ah, alt-F2 works.
<daftykins> although alt+f2 seems to give varying success at running progs ime =|
<lopta> Hmm... the Ubuntu box doesn't even show ssh.
<lopta> I suppose I could install that though.
<maps|wrk> i guess thats a no then:D
<diddledan> and yeah, pptp is open
<diddledan> so that I can VPN if needed
<maps|wrk> what VPN you using..ive got openVPN setup
 * lopta doesn't VPN
<maps|wrk> hi Guest94830 ;p
<Guest94830> Ah pants.
<maps|wrk> =]
<ball> That's better.
<ball> Unity doesn't feel /quite/ as bad as I remember.
<ball> I think it's improving.
<ball> I was impressed that I could print, too.
<ball> In a corporate environment, could I control which printers appear on an Ubuntu desktop?
<ball> Is Ubuntu One the cloud storage product?
<diddledan> yes
<diddledan> I don't know about the printers thing though
<diddledan> AFAIK there isn't really much in the way of corporate control over individual machines in that manner
<diddledan> if you paid for landscape (v. expensive) you might get some management tools there
<ball> Hmm... ok
 * ball tries video over X11
<maps|wrk> cloud printers diddledan ?
<diddledan> hmm?
 * ball tries video over VNC
<ball> Oh that's way better.
<maps|wrk> anyone any ideas re portsentry?
 * ball doesn't know what that offers.
<maps|wrk> http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/precise/en/man8/portsentry.8.html
<maps|wrk> sudo nmap -v -A -T4 94.193.78.219 -- can someone try that for me please
<bigcalm> Anybody know how to concatenate PDFs into one file for printing?
<maps|wrk> hm
<shauno> do you have 'pdfunite' installed?  (poppler-utils)
<shauno> pdfunite (1)         - Portable Document Format (PDF) page merger
<maps|wrk> can anyone lend me a hand and run that scan on me:)
<popey> ya
<popey> ip?
<maps|wrk> 94.193.78.219
<maps|wrk> thanks
<diddledan> maps|wrk: running
<diddledan> maps|wrk: host seems down
<diddledan> ""
<popey> 22/tcp   open   ssh
<popey> 80/tcp   open   http
<popey> 443/tcp  open   https
<popey> 3128/tcp closed squid-http
<popey> 8000/tcp open   http-alt
<maps|wrk> ARGHH
<maps|wrk> and nothing in syslog
<diddledan> http://paste.ubuntu.com/7035734/
<maps|wrk> yet portsentry says its active and listening
<maps|wrk> ive set BLOCK_TCP and BLOCK_UDP to 1
<maps|wrk> could someone try ssh to my ip and 3 incorrect user/pass check fail2ban works..if i do it myself i may get locked out
<maps|wrk> cant figure out why portsnetry wont work
<diddledan> fail2ban seems to work
<diddledan> wow, is it really 11:30 alreayd?!
<diddledan> ouch
<maps|wrk> yep
<maps|wrk> thanks diddledan
<maps|wrk> so what to do with portsentry :D hm
<daftykins> i don't think trying to do anything about nmap is practical
<maps|wrk> but everywhere says portsentry can
<maps|wrk> :((
<maps|wrk> so what am i doing wrong!
<daftykins> running insecure stuff at home :(
<daftykins> ;D
<maps|wrk> 3 more days at work then off for 11 yesss
#ubuntu-uk 2014-03-05
<shauno> read that as 'for 11 years' :(
<maps|wrk> lol
<maps|wrk> 11 years ..cant afford that much time off;p
<maps|wrk> grmpf
<bigcalm> shauno: ta for pdfunite. Yes it was installed. Possibly from the last time I needed to join up my pay slips as well :)
<pooky2483186> Can anyone help me, I'm currently using web based irc and have Quassel installed and dont know how to find this irc in Quassel?
<daftykins> "find this IRC" ?
<daftykins> as in connect to freenode?
<pooky2483186> There i a search bar but on ehtering something, nothing happens!
<bigcalm> pooky2483186: a good GUI IRC client is xchat. You can then connect to freenode and then #ubunutu-uk
<bigcalm> Ah, Quassel is another IRC client
 * bigcalm goes to sleep
<pooky2483186> will just have a look if its in muon (im using Kubuntu)
<pooky2483186> found and just installing it now
<maps|wrk> :D
<pooky2483186> leaving web based IRC and attempting to join using xchat...
<maps|wrk> hm wonder what happened
<pooky248321> I'm back, it's quite hard to get the hang of...
<pooky248321> Easier than Quassel tho'
<pooky248321>  I'm back, it's quite hard to get the hang of...
<pooky248321> Anyone here?
<maps|wrk> hey pooky248321
<pooky248321> hi
<maps|wrk> youve got 2 sessions open it seems!
<pooky248321> just going to get back out of thw web version...
<maps|wrk> ah
<maps|wrk> ;]
<pooky248321> has the other one gone?
<maps|wrk> ya
<pooky248321> just seen it above in this window
<pooky248321> first time I've ventured onto IRC
<maps|wrk> O_o
<pooky248321> brings back memories of going on BBS'es in the 90's lol
<maps|wrk> lol
<maps|wrk> not a new nerd then:D
<maps|wrk> some people i know..infact most haven't even heard of IRC let alone BBS
<pooky248321> nope, I got started with a ZX-81 lol
<pooky248321> my dad got me hooked on computing
<maps|wrk> on xubuntu now or was it kubuntu you said?
<pooky248321> K
<maps|wrk> ah xubuntu here=]
<pooky248321> I first switched from XP to Ubuntu (11.10)
<maps|wrk> I use XP at work still ;/
<pooky248321> I tried it on CD first and loved it so much I instantly decied to wipe XP
<maps|wrk> windows 7 on  my  netbook ( mapps ) and Linux on my desktop
<maps|wrk> well
<maps|wrk> im running xubuntu on a real  old machine..and im running apache/openvpn/mariadb/qwebirc (which im using now through apache)
<maps|wrk> shoutcast etc
<daftykins> win7 netbook, ouch
<maps|wrk> pff
<maps|wrk> it works fine
<maps|wrk> :D
<daftykins> how much RAM?
<pooky248321> My machine is 8 years old
<maps|wrk> had it 4 years? honestly dont think its been off more than a few hours takje iut hoime its on take it abroad battery then plug
<maps|wrk> 2gig daftykins
<pooky248321> startes with 1Gb then up to 3 and then over to Ubuntu so upgraded to the max 8Gb
<daftykins> ah, almost bearable then
<maps|wrk> hey pooky248321  my dell desktop running xubuntu is prob about 8/9 yrs old:p but it runs everything i said above and works fine..sits there chugging away;p
<pooky248321> I cant believe how good 'buntu is
<pooky248321> I remember using 'nix back in the early 90's
<pooky248321> while doing a programming course
<maps|wrk> think rh was first i used
<pooky248321> and the terminal 'way' stuck in my head and prevented me from switching until an old schoolmate persuaded me to try it
<pooky248321> best thing I did, would have cost me Â£1200 to go Win7
<maps|wrk> well yea way more flexibility
<maps|wrk> lol  checked my auth.log same IP trying ssh every 10mins
<maps|wrk> 94.247.233.129
<pooky248321> I used to live in fear of the BSOD lol
<maps|wrk> might just block it outright now..fai2vban wont pick it up[ as it's only once every 10mins or so
<maps|wrk> =]
<pooky248321> Hey, I just remembered, I've got some Xubuntu stickers
<maps|wrk> i had ubuntu ones
<maps|wrk> got them on my case;p
<pooky248321> BTW, I'm System76's uk Ubuntu sticker outlet
<pooky248321> A contact in US sent me some
<pooky248321> Already sent 1 lot to a girl
<pooky248321> got 3 left
<maps|wrk> nice
<pooky248321> theyre good quality ones
<maps|wrk> mine are wearing away had them on the pc for years
<maps|wrk> authentic old heh
<pooky248321> which ones? K or X
<pooky248321> sorry, U or X
<maps|wrk> PLain generic U
<maps|wrk> hmm having trouble with my shellinabox
<pooky248321> If you want, just send me a SAE and I will send back with new stickers
<maps|wrk> :D brb just gotta restart chrome
<pooky248321> OK
<pooky248321> ...
<maps|wrk> back
<pooky248321> Hi
<pooky248321> just been looking at the other IRC program and I need to enter server address for irc.freenode.com but dont know where to get it?
<maps|wrk> dude
<maps|wrk> irc.freenode.net is the address
<pooky248321> lol
<pooky248321> it's all new to me ...
<daftykins> nah it's not really
<pooky248321> [facepalm]
<daftykins> there's a proper 'chatsomething' .freenode.net that gives you the proper server rotation i think
<daftykins> chat.freenode.net
<daftykins> there we go
<maps|wrk> gah but daftykins  irc.freenode would do;p
<daftykins> nah-uh!
<maps|wrk> its what i connect to:) then it connects elsewhere
<pooky248321> I'll have to explore them laters
<pooky248321> On abt the stickers, it you want more, just look on system76's web site for my address
<pooky248321> or
<maps|wrk> thanks
<pooky248321> ask me
<daftykins> look at this, shutdown the two office PCs and as if by magic - http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/share/de004f24c8feb5d8408d296a9ed65fc5.html
<daftykins> i can't think what the hell was going on
<maps|wrk> hm
<pooky248321> I also advertise the fat that I give away the stickers on my G+, twitter and fb accounts
<maps|wrk> im wondering whats going on my end too
<pooky248321> *fact
<maps|wrk> diddledan:  and someone could traceroute to me hops with *** and when i traceroute anywhere loads of *** hops and not reaching the ip!!
<pooky248321> I'll make a note of chat.freenode.net and try it later
<maps|wrk> i dont have time for g+/twitter/facebook ..id be tio overwhlemed with irc too
<maps|wrk> daftykins:  you use any?
<pooky248321> I dont go on them very much, cant be bothered most of the time, too much else to do
<daftykins> i've a facebook account where i put holiday pics up for friends, sometimes receive messages from friends who are now moved and marrying out as far as Australia, but can't stand it personally
<daftykins> i avoid it as much as possible
<daftykins> G+ i'm avoiding signing up to aaaaand twitter i find just a bit daft
<pooky248321> anyways, as my address is already in the public domain (system76) it's...
<daftykins> although i'm finding a lot of online services have service status twitter feeds that could be quite useful
<pooky248321> P Maddison
<pooky248321> The Bungalow
<pooky248321> Bradley STreet
<pooky248321> DERBY
<pooky248321> DE22 1GL
<maps|wrk> yea i agree daftykins  for service status and companies can be good but the selfies and boring statuses
<maps|wrk> are utterly useless
<pooky248321> I find twatter boring too
<daftykins> seems twitter is used for local events too, which i had no idea about
<daftykins> i often wonder how my friends know some things are going on locally that i don't
<pooky248321> yeahm there are <some> good local feeds
<daftykins> e.g. cakes sold in the market (area of town, here) on Fridays :O
<pooky248321> even the police 'tweet' lol
<maps|wrk> yep
<maps|wrk> as do TFL
<maps|wrk> tfl have a social media dept for busses/trains etc
<maps|wrk> and sure ok i can kinda see that being of some use
<pooky248321> I've even seen some small businesses in Derby use twitter too
<pooky248321> ..and the Council
<maps|wrk> I like howq people are regarded as
<maps|wrk> 'social media experts'
<maps|wrk> 'social media strategist;
<maps|wrk> like..uh seriously
<pooky248321> they think theyre instant experts...
<maps|wrk> yea
<daftykins> they're always the lairy types that get themselves fired from jobs for tweeting about their speeding ;)
<daftykins> anyway must sleep, g'night \o
<maps|wrk> remember the young police so who tweeted about taking drugs and stuff lol
<maps|wrk> clowns
<pooky248321> s'ok, nice chatting.
<maps|wrk> work in the am daftykins ?
<pooky248321> dont forget to send for some free stickers
<pooky248321> :-)
<daftykins> maps|wrk: well i may need to go investigate why that small office's connection mystically pings nicely now that the two office PCs are off
<pooky248321> don't remember that one, when was that>
<maps|wrk> uh im sure youve checked
<maps|wrk> but malware some kinda bot draining the bw?
<daftykins> looked all clean to me
<maps|wrk> always quiet here after midnight :)
<daftykins> check out ##club-nomicon if you want a bit of all-time activity
<daftykins> not exactly on-message though
<maps|wrk> quick q
<maps|wrk> http://www.computersecuritystudent.com/UNIX/UBUNTU/1204/lesson14/index.214.jpg
<maps|wrk> see that? what are those kinda menus referred to
<maps|wrk> console based menu? text based hm
<maps|wrk> referred to as even
<pooky248321> I'm gonna pop off now, gotta get some sleep, may be back later today testing IRC
<daftykins> hmm, 'tis the kinda options you get when configuring a package
<maps|wrk> cya pooky248321
<daftykins> the dpkg-reconfigure type
<maps|wrk> yea in this case its just an informational thing
<daftykins> not sure on a proper way to refer
<maps|wrk> i just wondered what theyre known as:)
<maps|wrk> something for me to google and search
<maps|wrk> during my boredom heh
<daftykins> :>
<maps|wrk> anyway yea cya ..only be me still awake
<maps|wrk> :D
<pooky248321> nite all....
<daftykins> \o
<maps|wrk> hm
<MooDoo> morning all
<jussi> morning all, morning MooDoo
<jussi> this is interesting
<jussi> http://www.osvehicle.com/
<mapps> hmmm
<mapps> maybe  www.toyota.co.th has been exploited
<mapps> 203.155.20.20 - - [05/Mar/2014:06:51:30 +0000] "GET /phpTest/zologize/axa.php HT                                   TP/1.1" 404 222
<jussi> wfm...
<jussi> maybe you have been exploited...  ? :D
<mapps> surely not as thats the IP trying it on my machine
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<MooDoo> mroning
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo
<SuperMatt> morning
<MooDoo> morning SuperMatt how are you sir
<MooDoo> wow 9am and everyone comes in lol
<jussi> hehe
<jussi> MooDoo: rush hour! :P
<bashrc> ideally I should maybe have irssi running as a daemon so that I'm permanently logged in
<MooDoo> I just leave mine running in a screen session on my server that I ssh too
<bashrc> yeah I should probably do that too
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy St Piran's Day! :-D
<jussi> JamesTait: and just who was this saint Piranha?
<JamesTait> jussi, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St_Piran%27s_Day
<MartijnVdS> Piranhas in Cornwall?
<jussi> ooh, patron saint of tin miners...
<jussi> that deserves a play of this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rR5BiJCkZMI
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<bashrc> morning
<MooDoo> morning
<MartijnVdS> wn
<MartijnVdS> argh!
<davmor2> Morning all
<MooDoo> morning davmor2
<jussi> its davmor2!!!
 * jussi runs...
<bigcalm> jussi: why are running towards davmor2?
<jussi> bigcalm: no, you misunderstood... we are running _AWAY_ from davmor2 - he is a very scary man... :P :D
 * jussi tacklehugs davmor2
<diddledan> tacklehugging?! that's serious stuff right there!
<jussi> diddledan: yep...  :D
 * davmor2 stands here wondering why jussi is hugging his legs
<MooDoo> you're all nutters
<jussi> MooDoo: thanks for the compliment
<davmor2> MooDoo: 'ow do
<MooDoo> davmor2: gret lad
<jussi> davmor2: Im not hugging your legs - in australian football a tackle cant be around the legs... :D
<MooDoo> jussi: he's saying that as you're as short a**e ;)
<jussi> MooDoo: unlike you, davmor2 has actually met me
<MooDoo> rats lol
<MooDoo> just teasing any way
<MooDoo> :p
<jussi> hehe
<MooDoo> then again,  you could still be a short a**e ;)
<MooDoo> p
<MooDoo> :p
<jussi> short is not a word I would use to describe me...
<diddledan> omg, like people actually do meatspace things?!
<jussi> huh?
<diddledan> IRL is scary
<MooDoo> shiver ;)
<davmor2> MooDoo: yeah you think he is crazy on the channel, man you should see him go in real life, He's a crazy crazy man :D
<jussi> diddledan: ahh... yeah, but canonical was paying...
<jussi> davmor2: awwww....
<davmor2> jussi: you seem disappointed did I miss a crazy?
<jussi> davmor2: more than one... :D
<davmor2> hahaha
<jussi> davmor2: see, heres an illustration of my crazyness... I REALLY ACTUALLY *HUGGED* gord allot!
<davmor2> jussi: yeah but did you take one of his Japanese sweets, you're not crazy till you have, man they did taste like they were sugar coated vomit didn't they bigcalm
<diddledan> eww
<jussi> davmor2: ok, I think I managed to avoid those, thank god
<davmor2> jussi: :D
<jussi> mind, we got a gift from a customer once, they were candies... I took one... oh dear sweet flying spaghetti monster... they were sweet in the middle, but hot on the outside - the hottest chemical crap Ive ever tasted... OUCH!1
<bigcalm> Do not accept sweets from Allot
<jussi> is gord still working at canonical ?
<bigcalm> Haven't heard from him in ages
<foobarry> nope
<foobarry> he only used irc while canonical employee. i feel used :(
<popey> no he didnt
<popey> he was on irc long before he was at canonical
<foobarry> i mean, he stopped after he left ;)
<popey> he's not been "online" much at all
<popey> I don't think he even runs Ubuntu at all anymore.
<foobarry> wow
<foobarry> what else is there?
<popey> well indeed
<bigcalm> !rat
<lubotu3> The Real Ale Train. A yearly Ubuntu UK loco event to celebrate friends, trains and ale. 21st September 2013, Hampshire, UK: http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-uk/2320-real-ale-train/
<bigcalm> Time to organise one for this year
<bigcalm> Anybody interested?
<TheOpenSourcerer> yes
<bigcalm> Do we want to do September again?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Why not run a short doodle poll for a few dates... Find out which is most popular
<bigcalm> A what poll?
<popey> doodle.com
<popey> best way to find out what dates people can agree on
 * bigcalm visits
<TheOpenSourcerer> ZOMG! You'd not heard of doodle polls before bigcalm?
<bigcalm> Correct
<shauno> basically: ponies
<jussi> I think the url speaks for itsself... http://www.boredpanda.com/funny-cats-dogs-stuck-furniture-animal-fails/
<bigcalm> http://doodle.com/h7qqfhfk5gcp86ts
<bigcalm> Not knowing when oggcamp might be is tricky
<marxjohnson> bigcalm: If/when we discuss Oggcamp we do make an effort to avoid clashing with other community events
<popey> you should spread that around the loco
<bigcalm> popey: writing an email now
<popey> \o/
<diddledan> shauno: ponies?
<bigcalm> marxjohnson: good to know :)
 * jussi notes he is waiting for a pm from popey :)
<popey> yeah, it's in progress
<popey> sept 13 it is then. that was easy
<bigcalm> Heh
<bigcalm> Just the 3 of us?
<bigcalm> Email sent to the list, hope it's adequate
<popey> well you haven't filled it in yet, so only Alan's allowed currently
<bigcalm> :P
<bigcalm> Maybe I should have checked with Hayley 1st
<bigcalm> Would hate not being able to attend after organising it
<popey> nice url in the mail â»
<bigcalm> Oh ffs
<bigcalm> Should have just copied it from the address bar, not the doodle page
<bigcalm> Think I should tweet this or just keep it to here and the ml?
<bigcalm> Oh, you've done it :)
<popey> :D
<MooDoo> YAY RAT!!!!!
<MooDoo> not that I ever go to them lol
<bigcalm> Heh
<bigcalm> It's good to see your interest
<MooDoo> I might even see if it's possible to go to this one.
<davmor2> bigcalm: you don't want to tweet it, my god you'll attract the weirdos...... oh wait you mentioned it here too late :D
<MooDoo> davmor2: oh shut it chief weirdo sir ;)
<popey> anyone here on precise or saucy?
<popey> or both â»
 * davmor2 looks in the other direction
<bigcalm> If 13.10 is one of those, yes
<nigelb> do you need a desktop or server?
<bigcalm> I never keep track of the names
<davmor2> popey: I might have both
<foobarry> i'm on precise
<foobarry> oh i'm on elementary..sorry
<popey> davmor2: http://paste.ubuntu.com/7038169/ can you test that?
<popey> well, anyone
<popey> 13.10 or 12.04 based systems should work with the above instructions.
<bigcalm> What's -s ?
<bigcalm> Ah, simulate
<popey> ya
<bigcalm> http://paste.ubuntu.com/7038182/
<bigcalm> 13.10 desktop
<davmor2> I can try flashing a device if you like
<davmor2> popey: ^
<davmor2> popey: I have a couple :)
<popey> \o/ that worked, thanks bigcalm
<popey> just need to test 12.04 now
<davmor2> popey: doing that now
<popey> ta
<foobarry> http://pastebin.com/bSyBYMDX
<diddledan> http://grahamcluley.com/2014/03/windows-xp-end-support
<popey> thanks
<davmor2> popey: http://paste.ubuntu.com/7038206/  on precise
<diddledan> I wonder how likely it is for xp-EOL to finally rid me of IE6 hell?
<foobarry> didn't XP actually increase recentyl?
<foobarry> sudo add-apt-repository -r ppa:popey/touch
<foobarry> woops
<davmor2> diddledan: just because microsoft aren't supporting it doesn't mean it won't remain installed on peoples systems :P
<foobarry> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/03/05/windows_xp_market_share_grows_again/
<diddledan> davmor2: just because I'm paranoid doens't mean they're NOT after me! :-p
<davmor2> diddledan: sssssshhhhh they are I have the memo!
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: your being paranoid and them being after you are unrelated variables :)
<davmor2> popey: is that what you were after?  It looks like you will either need to include the android tools or link to the original phablet ppa first to ensure the android bits are in place :)
<popey> the phablet ppa doesn't have android tools
<davmor2> popey: I thought they did
<bashrc> most people don't care about MS support anyway.  I rang up MS support once in a business capacity, but they weren't much use
<popey> no, they're in the archive
<popey> but not for 12.04
 * popey adds that to the ppa
<davmor2> popey: ah okay
<awilkins> 'tis not support, 'tis security patches
<bashrc> yes
<davmor2> popey: let me remove this then and I'll try it again once it is all built
<awilkins> Although I suppose my Windows machines stay pretty clean even though I never install a virus scanner on them
<popey> k, ta
<bashrc> but old XP systems accumulating malware is a good thing.  More potential Linux converts
<diddledan> malware is never a good thing IMO
<awilkins> I converted my dear old mum to Linux ages ago
<awilkins> Alas, something broke her display drivers
<MartijnVdS> I just switched a cousin to Ubuntu because of unfixable XP issues
<bashrc> That's often the way it goes
<awilkins> And she's been without a desktop for some weeks... I need to set up remote support for her next time I visit
<awilkins> Port mapped through her router and such
<jussi> awilkins: why bother? chrome remote desktop...
<awilkins> jussi, That's the point - her desktop isn't loading, no X session, no chrome, nada
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: \o/
<jussi> awilkins: oh cripes... that bad...
<awilkins> jussi, first port of call I need a SSH session to poke around in it
<jussi> yup
<awilkins> Well, I expect it will be when / if I visit her for Easter
<awilkins> I did suggest videoconferencing support via her Galaxy Tab but that wasn't met with much enthusiasm
<jussi> damn chrome has changed things! I want my applications back :(
<jussi> awilkins: ssh access sounds much more fun...
<MartijnVdS> jussi: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheyChangedItNowItSucks
<jussi> MartijnVdS: exactly! :P
<awilkins> jussi, I always put sshd on all my machines even if it's technically a security hole
<awilkins> jussi, Not like there is a port mapped to it through my router
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: I always configure my sshds to only accept keys and put my key in ~/.authorized_keys
<awilkins> MartijnVdS, My router's sshd is configured like that
<awilkins> The rest still accept password wuth
<jussi> yeah, thats definitle the best way
<awilkins> MartijnVdS, periodically try to get the servers at work configured like that too but they're all Windows bods here and they look at you a bit funny when you tell them to generate an SSH key
<awilkins> And then put a blank passphrase on it (d'oh!)
<jussi> so, youtube concert recommendation (and if you can find it in HD somewhere,  buy it) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1dV6vbb1YqI&list=PL95B72524344FBA47
<jussi> the description? "The year is 1985. It's sunset on Sydney Harbour. This is Midnight Oil, in concert on Goat Island."
<popey> davmor2: try now, android-tools is there
<davmor2> popey: will do
<popey> davmor2: i lied, still building
<popey> \o/ done
<dogmatic69> Just upgraded to Virgins 152Mb line \o/
<bigcalm> I just scrolled though the solar system
<davmor2> dogmatic69: how much is that costing you?
<bigcalm> So bored I am going back to to work
<dogmatic69> davmor2:  with TV XL, phone and internet its Â£65
<davmor2> dogmatic69: nice
<bigcalm> Is the TiVo worth getting?
<dogmatic69> davmor2:  I only had TV / internet at 100, was 75. They called and upgraded me, and lowered the price
<dogmatic69> bigcalm:  tivo > sky
<popey> wow, thats less than I'm paying for 60Mb
<davmor2> dogmatic69: no virgin
<popey> and XL
<bigcalm> dogmatic69: we have the v+ hd box, is it worth getting the tivi?
<bigcalm> tivi
<bigcalm> tivo
<bigcalm> Gah
<dogmatic69> bigcalm:  depends I guess. I like that tivo is hackable...
<dogmatic69> eg: insert 3TB drive on the 500GB model ;)
<popey> davmor2: did it work? â»
<davmor2> popey: that's what I'm thinking, then I realised I have tivo, extra hd box, unlimited 07 calls,  caller id......
<dogmatic69> and it records 3 channels while watching a 4th
<davmor2> popey: update manager is doing it's think and locking up the apt channel give me a few and I'll get back to you
<davmor2> s/think/thing
<dogmatic69> bigcalm:  it also has a SOAP service, so you could change channels over network
<davmor2> bigcalm: I love out tivo
<davmor2> s/out/our
<bigcalm> dogmatic69: heh, nutty
<bigcalm> Found out that we'd lose our mates rates if we ever moved house. Guess we'll not be moving then
<dogmatic69> lol
<davmor2> bigcalm: it's easier to navigate, the thumbs up on favourites mean there is a constantly updating channel of shows you like and ones similar to the shows you like, perfect on a sunday when there is naff all on
<dogmatic69> ye, the recomendations are pretty good
<bigcalm> davmor2: that does sound good
<dogmatic69> it just records random crap incase you are board
<bigcalm> http://flappybraille.ndre.gr/
<bigcalm> That's somewhat amusing
<bigcalm> A larger version: http://ilesinge.itch.io/flappy-braille
<jussi> I like the cloud service idea. cable company gives you some randomly huge space in its data center, and you can record whatever you want, and its all on the servers there. then you can watch it from whatever $device you have.  (actually I think its more they have one copy of everything and you get to mark the times in that to record, but yeah)
<popey> haha, spooky, gord just tweeted at me â»
<jussi> popey: hehe
<popey> https://twitter.com/gordallott/status/441195262141145088
<bigcalm> He's alive!
<davmor2> popey: looks to be working
<foobarry> The BBC is considering making BBC Three a wholly online channel in an attempt to cut costs, according to reports.
<bigcalm> Hah
<foobarry> gord is alive!
<jussi> popey: he is reading the logs! :P
<MartijnVdS> popey: looks like your new profile pic :)
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: it's the worst BBC TV channel, not much lost.
<popey> +1
<foobarry> true. it has some programmes i don't admit to wtching
<foobarry> despatch war rocket ajax to bring back his body!
<davmor2> popey: looks to be working now, also gord is right that is you dude it's just missing a beachball
<popey> haha
<foobarry> so is that pic from south park, or really a popey pic
<davmor2> popey: yeap that is showing help now
<foobarry> uncanny likeness
<popey> davmor2: thanks!
<davmor2> popey: did you want me to try and flash a device with it?
<popey> if you fancy, sure â»
<popey> its Go, so in theory it should all "just work"
<foobarry> i sometimes watch drunk people on sun,sea,festivals and suspicious parents
<davmor2> popey: yeah and of course nobody has been bitten by assumptions before ever have they ;)
<diddledan> "assumption is the mother of all flipups"
<foobarry> see this underwater cable map? http://submarine-cable-map-2014.telegeography.com/
<bigcalm> davmor2: remind me to skype one of my clients in .au at about 9 or 10 pm tonight :)
<davmor2> bigcalm: no :P
<bigcalm> But the LUG is just an extended workplace now ;)
<davmor2> bigcalm: set an alarm on your phone :)
 * bigcalm writes an email instead
<bigcalm> *grumble*
<davmor2> popey: Yay spinny ubuntu logo
<jussi> my secret nasty tv habit is those acution shows... "Storage hunters" - but sssh, dont tell anyone
<foobarry> saw a guy smoking an e-cig on the tube. looked weird.
<bigcalm> I really hope this meeting with the IFA doesn't take too long. I want to relax at the LUG tonight
<diddledan> spinny ubuntu?!
<davmor2> diddledan: popey knows
<foobarry> jussi: sorry to break it to you but storage hunters is a complete fake
<jussi> foobarry: Im aware of that fact
<foobarry> so was i after 2 mins of watching it ;)
<daftykins> just don't tell him about wrestling
<jussi> foobarry: it just makes the admission worse...
<davmor2> foobarry: next you'll be saying wrestling isn't real
<foobarry> or x-factor-idol
<jussi> daftykins: I hate wrestling
<daftykins> davmor2: lol ^5
<jussi> foobarry: you mean autotune-factor ?
<davmor2> daftykins: damn you beat me to it :)
<diddledan> foobarry: Britain's Got the Pop Factor... and Possibly a New Celebrity Jesus Christ Soapstar Superstar Strictly on Ice
<foobarry> my hairdresser made a mistake and gave me a square head haircut. i asked her to fix the simon cowell style
<popey> The only thing i watch on telly at the moment are Jon Stewart Daily Show, Come Dine With Me and You've Been framed
<davmor2> diddledan: I think you missed ballroom of the end of the last one
<foobarry> popey: musketeers is quite good saturday night cheese
<diddledan> davmor2: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Kay's_Britain's_Got_the_Pop_Factor..._and_Possibly_a_New_Celebrity_Jesus_Christ_Soapstar_Superstar_Strictly_on_Ice
<foobarry> hairdresser then said "simon cowell, he's got a fine head of hair"
<popey> mmmm cheese
<popey> http://drool.popey.com/
<jussi> we have a finnish comedy called "putous" which is really good, but you need language capabilities for that...
<davmor2> popey: so though all that all you saw was Cheese
<diddledan> jussi: languages suck
<jussi> still funny that popey's website got shared by $famous_person the other day...
<foobarry> popey: dinner date > come dine w/me
<diddledan> really?!
<diddledan> which famous person?
<daftykins> fame!?
<foobarry> top gear is quite funny
<jussi> diddledan: really, some random that I forget who it was. :P
<daftykins> as long as you can suspend the same amount of disbelief as for the aforementioned programs
<foobarry> its a pantomime
<daftykins> and put up with men acting like children
<jussi> I think they were poking fun at some other famous person
<foobarry> more like chuckle borthers
<daftykins> oh and have a slightly chavvy interest in cars ;)
<foobarry> nope, more women i know enjoy TG than men
<foobarry> for the silly antics
<popey> daftykins: https://twitter.com/popey/status/440076758679683072
<popey> daftykins: https://t.co/3zlf6fZG0x
<diddledan> cute kitty
<foobarry> soft kitty
<daftykins> popey: heh :)
<jussi> does someone want to do my job for a day? :D
<daftykins> little ball of fur
<daftykins> err what is it? :D
<daftykins> i'd say possibly...
<jussi> daftykins: Im a sales guy for a software company
<daftykins> aaah... they would not make any sales with me around
<jussi> hehe
<MartijnVdS> jussi: so you tell customers that things are possible, and then the devs HAVE to deliver, no matter what?
<popey> "It's crap, don't buy it, here's a link to pirate bay"
<daftykins> "can't get that? here's a download i hosted myself"
<jussi> we mostly do open source stuff...
<MartijnVdS> "It makes coffee too!"
<popey> "The proprietary stuff is better, here's a key"
<jussi> hehe
<foobarry> just read the man page and you don't need to buy it
<daftykins> "jussi:opensesame"
<popey> jussi://opensource
<jussi> hehe
<foobarry> "let me sell you some free software"
<popey> Happy birthday TheOpenSourcerer !
<jussi> oh, you all are in such fine voice today, its fun :)
<jussi> oh dear, someone is having a birthday?  where is the cake?
<foobarry> lots of people i talk to in my job are discovering the best product in their cateogry is also free
<TheOpenSourcerer> Many thanks popey
<jussi> !cake
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: Happy birthday!
<jussi> !pie-#ubuntu-offtopic
<lubotu3> PIE PIE PIE, mmm PI PI PI http://ikanobori.jp/storage/pi_e.jpg or http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3663/3358637054_9f756a3615.jpg
<TheOpenSourcerer> Just had a Bombay Bad Boy Pot Noodle for my lunch :-D
<diddledan> it was mine yesterday and nobody mentioned it :-p
<SuperMatt> yo
<TheOpenSourcerer> "Livin' the dream, Oh yes."
<foobarry> birthday season
<diddledan> TheOpenSourcerer: you'll have the squits tonight then?
<daftykins> haha does anyone see the obvious mistake in that pi cake?
<popey> I have a chicken & cheese sandwich
<daftykins> someone put the first 5 in the sequence on backwards!
<popey> yeah
<jussi> mines on 4/4 so I have told you now, better all send me lots of presents!
<foobarry> ate a pasty. regret it
<popey> jussi: so is mine
<jussi> popey: yep :D
<daftykins> i already had my birthday :(
<popey> daftykins: have another
<foobarry> my anuual increment was last week
<daftykins> oooh \o/
<jussi> daftykins: dont worry, youll likely have another
<foobarry> got amazon vouchers from everyone
<jussi> foobarry: I want amazon vouchers!
<foobarry> need to spend them on replacing stuff the thieves stole :(
<diddledan> apparently the people who have the most birthdays are statistically more likely to live longer
<popey> I would prefer if people buy me stuff on amazon wishlist
<foobarry> because insurance is a scam
<jussi> daftykins: hehe
<foobarry> my wishlist is usually quite bare
<foobarry> i have a private wishlist so people don't accidentally buy me things i'm bookmarking
<jussi> hrm, theres an idea... instead of having those "give em a few cents" buttons on websites, people should publish wishlists for items they need, preferably with explanations behind them "if I had this, then Id like to do X+Y+Z". then people could buy said items for  the developer because of work they had done, or work they would do with the said device...
<jussi> half kickstarter/half donation
<daftykins> i think they did that on LAS once, he needed new storage for the video editing of the show, so he put up the items he wanted and people gift bought them
<daftykins> each person had their name kept on the disk they'd bought :D
<jussi> daftykins: yeah, Ive seen it done on an adhoc basis, but it could be cool to put up some sort of website to do it...
<daftykins> mmm
<daftykins> ugh - someone i knows website is down but the person hosting it is absolutely useless at contact
<daftykins> he still hasn't replied to an email of mine from last April...
<popey> removed 4 pairs of headphones from my wishlist
<popey> i have 4 quadcopters on it â»
<daftykins> XD
<DJones> Heh, Dell trying to charge Â£16.25 to install Mozilla Firefox web browser when you specify your machine http://regmedia.co.uk/2014/03/05/firefox.png
<jussi> DJones: hahaha, epic
<daftykins> \o/
<daftykins> DJones: what's that discount of yours? :)
<ali1234> microsoft need to take a hard line with that stuff
<jussi> DJones: but is it real?
<ali1234> build a "reset to factory" tool in to windows
<ali1234> instead of charging $100 for it
<DJones> daftykins: Wasn't my screenshot, link came from El Reg
<jussi> just seems weird there are 2 boxes with "thank you for choosing dell"
<daftykins> DJones: oh yeah silly me, despite reading the domain i didn't connect those two thoughts together D:
<diddledan> ali1234: windows 8 has that
<DJones> I wonder if they charge the same to install Google Chrome
<ali1234> diddledan: why aren't they advertising it everywhere then?
<ali1234> btw when i say "reset to factory" i mean it would remove any and all OEM software
<daftykins> that'd be nice
<ali1234> it would be the same as if you had just installed windows from the retail CD
<daftykins> though it'd also kinda put me out of a job ;)
<diddledan> http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:cSr2mAhQc0sJ:windows.microsoft.com/en-gb/windows-8/restore-refresh-reset-pc+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk
<foobarry> does anyone here use pinterest?
<ali1234> diddledan: "Applications that came with your PC and apps you've installed from the Windows Store will be reinstalled."
<daftykins> ^was just about to paste that
<daftykins> it's just the same factory image restore that put all the crapware back on
<jussi> DJones: if its real its old - thats the old dell website (or so it seems)
<DJones> jussi: Was just trying the website, it doesn't even have an "Other software" option now, plus the prices are slightly lower
<Darael> jussi: It's real, all right.  I remember seeing it when I was helping someone spec up a PC.  Had me doing a mixture of laughing and headdesking.
<foobarry> can someone explain pinterest to me?
<diddledan> foobarry: near as I can work out, it's facebook without any of your friends
<DJones> jussi: It is real, http://configure.euro.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?c=uk&cs=ukbsdt1&fb=1&l=en&model_id=optiplex-7010&oc=sm002d70108sff1&s=bsd&vw=classic
<ali1234> foobarry: it's 4chan for women
<Darael> foobarry: Yes.  Presumably there exists someone in the world who can explain pinterest to thee.
<DJones> Its still showing up
<MooDoo> pah today sucks
<DJones> jussi: Near the bottom on the Accessories page
<foobarry> Darael: need proof
<Darael> foobarry: Well, I'd consider trying to work it out myself, but I'm in text-mode and staying that way for a while
<foobarry> unsure if its a shop window /wish list for girls or just some people like to display pictures of pretty things
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: mostly (2) but also (1)
<ali1234> foobarry: it's literally 4chan for soccer moms
<jussi> DJones: wow, so it is!
<foobarry> my wife explained it in a way that miht be useful to me
<ali1234> it's an image board where people repost pictures they found on the internet
<foobarry> for visual bookamrking of ideas
<foobarry> i.e  planning a wedding, post on the wedding board (need friends)
<daftykins> foobarry: i've never even seen it XD
<foobarry> or for me, planning a new airfix build, posting images on my research page of photos of completed lancasters, and reference pics from the war etc
<foobarry> which would be useful to me
<foobarry> but i started and got bogged down
<foobarry> because i was searching inside pinterest rather than pinning from outside
<ali1234> yes
<ali1234> like 4chan, pinterest has very little "OC"
<foobarry> which is like a retweet
<foobarry> 4chan is reddit for ugly kids?
<diddledan> the kill bill soundtrack is epicly awesome
<daftykins> ^ yes :D
<daftykins> the rza stuff can be easily removed however
<diddledan> in fact kill bill is epically awesome, too
<diddledan> a masterpiece one might say
<daftykins> nothing Tarantino i've seen really has any faults
<foobarry> :-Z
<daftykins> Reservoir Dogs took until i was older to watch properly though as it's not really too engaging...
<foobarry> and its horrible
<daftykins> not a fan?
<foobarry> noooo
<foobarry> i may be in the minority though
<ali1234> tarantino only recently figured out how to make a 90 minute movie with a beginning, middle, and end
<foobarry> an outlier
<ali1234> that's not to say his stuff is bad
<daftykins> y'mean instead of messing around back and forth in time all the time? :)
<ali1234> yes, or making two movies instead of one
<ali1234> or making three half hour shorts and calling it a movie
<ali1234> or having a beginning and a middle and not knowing how to finish it
<foobarry> i think i finally deleted inglourious without watching it
<foobarry> yanks and war films and truth don't usually mix
<daftykins> ali1234: unfortunately the constantly negative opinions of things tend to grate on everyone you share them with
<popey> http://gamebuino.com/
<popey> looks fun
<jussi> british war films from the 50s/60's were good... :D
 * foobarry is excited about this http://dambustersblog.com/category/bbmf/
<jussi> foobarry: oooh, you are an aviation buff also? :D
<MooDoo> damn that new game from mr langridge!
<foobarry> jussi: not a buff but a fan of wwi and wwii planes mainly
<foobarry> amazing they made the plane for the war, not expecting it to fly another 70 years
<jussi> ahh fair enough. I enjoy them also :)
<foobarry> whats not to like ;)
<foobarry> faily faily faily
<foobarry> IBM IMM2
<diplo> hi guys
<foobarry> hello diplodocus
<diplo> Not ubuntu related, but knowledgable heads en all
<diddledan> hahahahahaha
 * diddledan lols
<diplo> If I add our router in resolv.conf for dns pinging externally works etc
<diplo> But...
<diddledan> that's a great joke
<diplo> Login times are about 5-10 seconds for password prompt
<foobarry> dns , reverse dns, ldap
<diplo> Remove entries from ifcfg-eth0 or resolv.conf logins times are instant but can't go externally
<diddledan> that'll be reverse dns issues
<MartijnVdS> is your hostname not known in DNS?
<foobarry> or /etc/hosts
<diplo> It is in /etc/hosts
<MartijnVdS> it's likely a DNS server that's not answering instead of going "NXDOMAIN"
<diplo> It isn't in etc/hosts!
<diplo> I misread it
<foobarry> failyfail
<diddledan> oh gentoo, you can and you took without giving, but I love you anyway, oh gentoo
<diddledan> came*
<diddledan> seriously, why can't I convince $important_person to upgrade to ubuntu?!
<diplo> So the DNS server is basically a draytek router so I'm guessing using one of the small caching things and usese the ISP external ones
<diplo> Adding into /etc/hosts has made no difference on the server
<daftykins> diddledan: from?
<foobarry> gentoo does not belong in enterprise
<foobarry> or in the home :P
<diddledan> daftykins: gentoo
<daftykins> heh
<diddledan> the thing is, I get the impression that I'm the only one that cares about security patching these ancient boxes
<diddledan> if it were clear that we were going to upgrade then I'd be more lax about maintenance but they're really outdated (like over a year) and there's no sign we're coming off gentoo so someone needs to update them
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: sounds like time for a new job?
<diddledan> heh
<daftykins> diddledan: nobody's interested in ok'ing the time to slowly transition everything off them?
<diddledan> nope
<diddledan> "they work"
<daftykins> =|
<daftykins> no external services i take it?
<diddledan> haha
<bashrc> gentoo users are hard to persuade.  Once you've become addicted to compiling...
<diddledan> yes there are external services
<daftykins> D:
<diddledan> including some very outdated java/tomcats
<daftykins> oh dear, those would probably be hell to change
<MartijnVdS> Make it a business case
<MartijnVdS> "Money lost if hacked (reputation damage, lost customers, etc.)" vs cost of upgrade
<bashrc> outdated stuff will have security holes
<MartijnVdS> if upgrade < bad stuff, they will choose to upgrade
<MartijnVdS> unless they're bad business people
<foobarry> a company very close to me got hacked by anon
<foobarry> post hack reaction is very Â£Â£
<bashrc> yes
<MartijnVdS> include that in the business case
<MartijnVdS> Also, getting hacked might have "legal" consequences, wrt. data protection, informing people/authorities, etc
<foobarry> and all IT staff diverting duties for 4 weeks
<diplo> It wasn't any of the above btw
<diplo> It was the way putty trys all the different auth methods that took the time
<diplo> All other clients were quick :/
<foobarry> ssh -vv
<dwatkins> all the Vs
<dwatkins> ssh -vvv
<foobarry> ssh - \o/
<dwatkins> if only
<MartijnVdS> vvvvvv!
<daftykins> vee vee
<foobarry> i have that game somewhere
<bashrc> what so the v's do?
<MartijnVdS> in steam, probably
<daftykins> increase the verbosity cap'n
<foobarry> what are the android HIB games liek this week?
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: HIB?
<foobarry> humble bundle
<dwatkins> Humble Indie Bundle
<diddledan> she has'ne got the vee, cap'n
<foobarry> does firefox not even try to restore pages anymore after closure?
<dwatkins> my firefox says it's embarassed
<dwatkins> full power to the diagnostic information, Scotty!
<daftykins> foobarry: it's not the default setting
<foobarry> oh, they changed it then?
<diddledan> I think it depends how it exited
<bigcalm> directhex: yeoldesteamos-release4-20140108u1.iso - last activity 13 minutes ago - surprised that people are still downloading it
<directhex> bigcalm, yeah... don't think it even works anymore
<bigcalm> With a 93.6 ratio, I wonder if my ISP dislike me
<directhex> bigcalm, valve have superceded it for everything except ntfs resizing
<daftykins> directhex: so you won't be doing anything further?
<directhex> daftykins, it's tough to justify, i guess. and i *really* need test hardware to make further strides
<directhex> the steam box i was promised never materialized. i have a controller, but that's it
<bigcalm> How's the controller?
<directhex> odd. interesting. too big for the wife.
<directhex> more games need to natively support it, it's not quite tweakable enough for the keyboard & mouse mapping mode to work well in many games yet
<diplo> directhex: Probably because it was referenced in linuxformat last month
<bigcalm> Linux Voice?
<diplo> Format
<diplo> Keep forgetting to unsub :)
<bigcalm> Ah, the name was kept. Everybody was sacked and they started Linux Voice?
<popey> They resigned I thought.
<bashrc> linux format is no more?
<popey> no, its still being published
<popey> just that the 3 people who used to write most of it, left the company and started linux voice
<popey> so now linux format is being written by people who aren't linux people, but people who write mags for the company on other topics
<bigcalm> How's that working out for them?
<bashrc> that sounds insane
<popey> dunno, i dont read LF
<bashrc> do they all use Windows XP?
<popey> no idea
<foobarry> sounds like most mags
<foobarry> went into a big whsmith the other day and the range of mags is amazing
<foobarry> 6 mags on "so you just bought a kindle"
<bashrc> crazy
<foobarry> they seem to churn out pulp article
<foobarry> i subscrbied to a photo mag once and the articles just recycled after a few months
<foobarry> same for "so you're having a baby! magazine"
<dwatkins> wow, WH Smith still exists?
<bashrc> yes, I've been in recently to buy a pen
<foobarry> magazines are good source of light reading material
<foobarry> but i flicked through a few and found no real content
<foobarry> linux format was there, idn't bother flicking
<bigcalm> Lots of wedding mags. Which my wife still likes to buy even after we got wed :|
<dwatkins> I can't remember the last time I bought a magazine.
<foobarry> zinio sucks as you can't keep the mag
<foobarry> when they go bust
<foobarry> pinterest seems better tahn wedding mags
<dwatkins> this is a concern for all such delivery systems, from Kindle to Woodwing.
<foobarry> lwn.net is too Â£Â£ really
<foobarry> $7 is more than a mag
<foobarry> linux journal went to a paid pdf model
<bashrc> and Linux Voice?
<popey> I have lwn.net via ubuntu membership
<directhex> i have lwn.net from like 3 paid sponsorships
<directhex> i think ubuntu's paying for the moment though
<bashrc> I also have a lwn.net subscription
<diddledan> so whoever has chrome(ium) open up the javascript console and type "true / false" and hit enter :-p
<bigcalm> Infinity, woo
<diddledan> colleague is debating what it should really be
<popey> diddledan: what does it do?
<diddledan> tells you the result is infinity
<diddledan> https://www.destroyallsoftware.com/talks/wat
<ali1234> it should really be a math exception
<ali1234> if you type 1 / 0 you also get infinity, which is just flat wrong
<bigcalm> Same in Firefox
<ali1234> of course, the incorrect behaviour is defined by javascript
<ali1234> it casts true to 1 and false to 0 then does 1 / 0
<ali1234> (and then gives the wrong answer anyway, lol)
<daftykins> just filmed a wee shaky-cam video of me riding back from a large supermarket, past all the queues of cars mindlessly trudging the couple of miles home
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/5rsdljyjqd7utde/VID_20140305_171330.mp4
<daftykins> they form a good couple of miles of solid queue all the way out of town up the east coast of the island
<bashrc> in cities walking is often faster than driving
<daftykins> *nod*
<popey> daftykins: is your video sped up?
<popey> (it is when I play it, oddly)
<popey> hmm, only sped up in mplayer
<daftykins> nope all standard from a Nexus 4
<map> hmmhm fail2ban sees to have ignored a ew ips
<map> Mar  5 10:31:58 frogs sshd[28296]: Failed password for root from 60.191.139.5 port 3068 ssh2
<map> 7l entries and ip not banned
<daftykins> :)
<daftykins> depends on the timeout you configure with fail2ban as to how long to blacklist a given IP for
<map> it looks like only 7 seconds between all the fals
<daftykins> mmm no doubt a bot probing you
<ali1234> or a alien
<daftykins> an alien bot probing you
<map> hm
<map> i had maxretry set to 3
<map> and findtime during this period as 600
<map> 3 attempts in 20seconds and it ignored it
<davmor2> MooDoo: why would anyone talk winders :P
<MartijnVdS> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JAI368bZC1g
<MartijnVdS> ^ XP to Ubuntu, by Computerphile
<daftykins> that's substantially longer opening My Computer than i'd expect from THAT machine ;)
<foobarry> \"operation system not found"?
<daftykins> he doesn't know dd! ;)
<foobarry> yeah
<foobarry> dd from windows...
<foobarry> you need rufus instead on windows
<daftykins> nah his own Dell to the left was ubuntu
<maps|wrk> HAi
<daftykins> evenin'
<maps|wrk> so i gotta question, daftykins  any idea why fail2ban seems to block people diddledan  tested it, as did someone else and i asked someone 2 mins ago all worked..but auth.log shows an IP doing 6 attemps in 16 seconds and didnt get banned..unless i read it wrong
<daftykins> hrmm dunno, could be useful if you pastebin'd the log? removing anything personal ofc
<maps|wrk> ya will do in a sec, just having trouble for some reason shellinabox sometimes ends up displaying funky in the browser;/
<daftykins> i'm not familiar with that
<foobarry> check now, is it in the ban list?
<foobarry> Cameron and Tyler Winklevoss, who famously accused Facebook founder Mark Zuckerberg of stealing their idea, said they used bitcoins to buy tickets for a high-altitude voyage on billionaire Sir Richard Branson's Virgin Galactic commercial spaceflight venture.
<maps|wrk> http://paste.ubuntu.com/7040424/ auth.log  --- 200.27.116.180 was a test from a friends box and fail2ban blocked the IP  but then 83.222.230.90 didnt get blocked
<maps|wrk> http://paste.ubuntu.com/7040431/
<maps|wrk> iptables -L output
<maps|wrk> foobarry:  did you try ssh ?
<maps|wrk> so why did the 200. IP get blocked and the 83 IP get ignored
<MartijnVdS> maps|wrk: is there anything in fail2ban's logs?
<MartijnVdS> maps|wrk: /var/log/fail2ban.log
<maps|wrk> will check 2sec
<maps|wrk> also recently someone in .tr and its not  banned that IP
<maps|wrk> Mar 5 18:49:54 frogs sshd[5799]: Failed password for root from 213.238.178.83 port 37164 ssh2 Mar 5 18:49:54 frogs sshd[5799]: Received disconnect from 213.238.178.83: 11: Bye Bye [preauth] Mar 5 18:49:56 frogs sshd[5801]: reverse mapping checking getaddrinfo for 83-178-238-213.ip.idealhosting.net.tr [213.238.178. 83] failed - POSSIBLE BREAK-IN ATTEMPT! Mar 5 18:49:56 frogs sshd[5801]: pam_unix(sshd:auth): authentication failure; logname
<MartijnVdS> maps|wrk: if fail2ban.log isn't verbose enough, set fail2ban to a higher log level and restart it
<MartijnVdS> before you restart
<MartijnVdS> check if it's actually running
<maps|wrk> mark@frogs:~$ ps aux | grep fail root 5881 0.1 0.7 123852 7144 ? Sl 18:54 0:05 /usr/bin/python /usr/bin/fail2ban-server -b -s /var/run/fail2 --says it is:| and MartijnVdS  it blocked the 200 ip so it mst be working
<maps|wrk> whats faillog in /var/log?
<MartijnVdS> maps|wrk: man faillog
<maps|wrk> oke
<foobarry> iptables -vnL will show any blocked IPs
<maps|wrk> 2014-03-05 19:10:24,170 fail2ban.actions: WARNING [ssh] Ban 200.27.116.180
<maps|wrk> ah i know what it is i edited the config it had it set to like 300 seconds or whatever bann
<maps|wrk> 2014-03-05 18:50:02,931 fail2ban.actions: WARNING [ssh] Ban 213.238.178.83 2014-03-05 18:54:18,565 fail2ban.server : INFO Stopping all jails 2014-03-05 18:54:18,764 fail2ban.jail : INFO Jail 'apache' stopped 2014-03-05 18:54:19,491 fail2ban.jail : INFO Jail 'apache-noscript' stopped 2014-03-05 18:54:20,132 fail2ban.actions: WARNING [ssh] Unban 83.222.230.90 2014-03-05 18:54:20,143 fail2ban.actions: WARNING [ssh] Unban 213.238.178.83
<maps|wrk> so it banned then unbanned :)
<maps|wrk> changed it to 17280
<MartijnVdS> just never unblock
<maps|wrk> it has an entry in the conf for a time
<maps|wrk> thought i had to specify
<popey> ooh!
<popey> I just got a google helpout invite
<ali1234> when did you apply?
<ali1234> or did you just get it randomly?
<popey> on day one
<popey> I think
<popey> or thereabouts
<ali1234> i see
<maps|wrk> is it not open for everyone? i thought helpout was where you pay for help from someone..
<maps|wrk> i want a google glass invite :D
<ali1234> anyone can ask for help yes
<popey> you need an invite to give help
<maps|wrk> ah
<ali1234> what are the rates like these days?
<maps|wrk> id like help getting a google glass invite
<ali1234> step 1 move to america
<ali1234> preferably SF
<maps|wrk> that seems quite expensive in itself
<popey> Heh, yeah. They're just not selling them to anyone outside the US right now.
<maps|wrk> I'd prefer someone just gives me one
<maps|wrk> :)
<popey> Good luck with that.
<maps|wrk> oh really, I read that people with google glass could invite someone else to join the program
<maps|wrk> but US only
<maps|wrk> pah!
<popey> Question 1: Do you have a greater social graph than Robert Scoble?
<popey> If no, goodbye.
<maps|wrk> Who was that retard women that had it..got in trouble for speeding whoile wearing it and cried all over the interweb about it
<maps|wrk>  There are about 10,000 Google Glass devices being tested nationwide and they will likely start being sold to the general public sometime this year.
<maps|wrk> more than i thought
<maps|wrk> I think I'd probably buy one..although would be annoying if you couldnt use it EVERYWHERE
<ali1234> i'd only buy it if they make a NHS/hipster edition
<maps|wrk> NHS edition?
<maps|wrk> you mean basically for prescription glasses?
<ali1234> i mean if they make a version that looks like NHS prescription glasses as worn by hipsters everywhere
<ali1234> (note that i wouldn't actually do this)
<daftykins> :D
<maps|wrk> big black rimmed?
<daftykins> must be
<maps|wrk> O_O
<maps|wrk> i have cheapo normal glasses..only wear them like few mins a week anyway
<maps|wrk> and ive broken few pairs by chucking them on the bed and forgetting..so fancy glasses..not for me:)
<daftykins> lucky
<daftykins> hehe
<maps|wrk> hmm what rules should i use as default on iptablles i wonder
<maps|wrk> oops
<maps|wrk> lol blocked myself when messing with iptables again
<maps|wrk> had to ssh in on my phone :)
<diddledan> maps|wrk: this on an ubuntu or ..?
<diddledan> I've set up a travis-ci for WordPress on HHVM vs normal PHP: https://travis-ci.org/diddledan/wordpress-develop
<maps|wrk> ya on my ubuntu machine
<maps|wrk> locked myself out lol
<diddledan> maps|wrk: you using ufw?
<maps|wrk> wna was just messing via cmd line
<diddledan> ufw is about the only option that actually gets the rules reinserted at the right time on reboot
<diddledan> other than coding your own upstart job, obv
#ubuntu-uk 2014-03-06
<diddledan> maps|wrk: kick yourself out again?
<maps|wrk> nope am here
<diddledan> you're "there", too :-p
<diddledan> maps|wrk_:
<maps|wrk> ah
<maps|wrk> quiet as ever
<maps|wrk> :)
<maps|wrk> noone awake?
<diddledan> o/
<maps|wrk> what u upto
<diddledan> not much
<diddledan> I mean "jus' chillin', drinkin' a bud"
<maps|wrk> ;D
<diddledan> "true"
<diddledan> I want moar things to make travis-ci test :-p
<diddledan> php.net - initial page loads fine but clicking any links causes a download dialog. anyone seeing the same?
<diddledan> some links load and other are download-black-holed
<diddledan> seems intermittent
<diddledan> same links sometimes work othertimes doesn't
<maps|wrk> 2sec
<maps|wrk> so php.net then any link?
<maps|wrk> working fine here
<diddledan> yeah, try a couple because sometimes it works and other times it doesn't for me
<diddledan> like 1 in 4 tries actually loads the desired doc
<maps|wrk> working fine here mate
<diddledan> odd
<diddledan> maybe my chrome is buggered and needs restarting
<diddledan> brb
<diddledan> and back
<maps|wrk> da,m o, tired
<maps|wrk> was just leaning back in my chair for 10mins with my eyes closed
<maps|wrk> :D
<maps|wrk> ;]
<maps|wrk> hi diddledan
<diddledan> ello :-)
<maps|wrk> what happened to your net
<diddledan> just rebooted
<maps|wrk> argh ive gotta restart chrome
<maps|wrk> stupid drm updated for 4od
<maps|wrk_> just put first dares on
<maps|wrk_> massively funny
<maps|wrk_> bunch of odd balls and slags
<maps|wrk_> hi dan
<diddledan> silly unity done crashed
<diddledan> had to restart lightdm from a console
<maps|wrk_> ah
<maps|wrk_> :(
<maps|wrk_> so
<maps|wrk_> shall i see if portsentry is picking up portscans yet?
<maps|wrk_> hm
<maps|wrk_> ive checked the config numerous times, done everything, cant see why it refuses to play ball!
<MooDoo> morning all
<map> morning mate
<jussi> map: you lost some letters?
<map> aha
<map> yes
<map> LD
<map> :D
<map> better jussi ?
<mapps> :)
<jussi> :D
<mapps> timefor the americans e2
<mapps> the americans is so good
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy White Chocolate Cheesecake Day! :-D
<mapps> morning
<mapps> cheesecake day?!
<mapps> ugh cant stand cheesecake;p
<TwistedLucidity> mapps: Top-tip, don't use Silton.
<mapps> ive only ever had cheesecake a few times and..ugh hated it :D
<jussi> cheesecake... OMNOMNOMNOM
<JamesTait> mapps, I'll have yours. ;)
<carldeantucker> join /#chef
<carldeantucker> oops
<MooDoo> oops :)
<mapps> ;]
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<bashrc> persistent irssi.  \o/
<MartijnVdS> hellos!
<bashrc> I had set up the irssi daemon without problems, but had no idea how to actually access it
<brobostigon> irssi doesnt have a deamon, it is an irc client, like any other, just cli insted of of gui.
<Laney> it has a server mode
<bashrc> right, but you can make a daemon which runs a persistent irssi session
<bashrc> that way I can see previous entries written even before I logged in
<Laney> you do /set irssiproxy_ports network1=port1 network2=port2 ... and then connect to them
<brobostigon> Laney: so you use the /connect function inside irssi to connect to the other instance of irssi?
<Laney> it's like a bouncer
<Laney> so yeah
<brobostigon> yes, byobu/tmux + irssi + bitlbee
<bashrc> I'm just ssh-ing to the server and then run screen -r irssi
<brobostigon> Laney: i shall have to research that, sounds interesting.
<Laney> sounds like you're not referring to the proxy then
<bashrc> http://majic.rs/book/initd-scripts/running-irssi-on-boot
<Laney> mad
<Laney> I've not felt the need to do that
<diplo> I don't either
<diplo> I just start byobu and then run irssi and reconnect to the session
<diplo> The VPS it's on has been up for ages and if it's rebooted I just type irssi in a new byobu session, good enough for me :)
<bashrc> whatever works
<davmor2> Morning all
<brobostigon> agreed, works well.
<diddledan> morgan
<brobostigon> gute morgen diddledan
<bashrc> bonjour
<ali1234> is anyone else massively shocked to see that the only people upset by the BBC3 thing are the people who rely on it to get on TV?
<davmor2> bore da
<bashrc> I don't think I've ever watched BBC3
<MartijnVdS> I watched a Doctor Who rerun on it once
<Dave2> It has some things I watch. But I think they're all from other sources.
<Dave2> Oh, wait, no, Monkey Dust was good and was BBC Three originally
<foobarry> the only stuff on bbc3 i usually watch on iplayer
<popey> ahhh, monkeydust
<popey> i recently got into P&R and Archer which I'm having a binge on
<bigcalm> Dave2: http://doodle.com/h7qqfhfk5gcp86ts
<Dave2> oh yeah, meant to do that last night
<Dave2> remind me again tonight
<bigcalm> :)
<bigcalm> Doh
<MooDoo> davmor2: arrrrrgh ;)
<davmor2> MooDoo: I had the same experience when I saw your picture :D
<MooDoo> lol
<jussi> davmor2: very nice comeback there :D
<diddledan> o_O
<davmor2> diddledan, jussi: MooDoo issued a challenge to take a picture of yourself after posting one of himself, so I did :)
<jussi> davmor2: where is said picture....?
<jussi> and where is MooDoo's picture?
<davmor2> jussi: Facebook
<jussi> bah
<jussi> boring
<jussi> davmor2: Im only your friend on g+ methinks... Im HALF FRIENDED!!! :P
<MooDoo> jussi: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1389816667956547&set=a.1382444232027124.1073741829.100007846805553&type=1&theater
<jussi> awww :D
<jussi> MooDoo: that is one "who the **** made me do this" photo :P :P
<MooDoo> lol
<jussi> I feel burn marks in my SOUL from those eyes! :P
<diplo> :P
<MartijnVdS> jussi: you haven't seen lolpopey.jpg yet ;)
<popey> uh
<popey> no
<popey> whats lolpopey.jpg
<popey> ?
<jussi> MartijnVdS: I dunno, cant remember.... but popey is scary whatever the photo, Im ok with him now (although I still have beachball nightmares)
<popey> oh that one
<MartijnVdS> popey: the one in the back of the bus in Sevilla :)
 * MartijnVdS doesn't have a webserver to put it on atm
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS: email me the image and I'll upload it to mine ;)
<foobarry> imgur?
<nigelb> popey might shut down imgur
<nigelb> I wanted tempted to write on my blog post "No, popey didn't shut me down" ;)
<popey> hah
<nigelb> *I was
<foobarry> did he get twitter shut down?
<nigelb> he got the failwhale shutdown
<nigelb> where did that meme come from anyway?
<nigelb> the forum thing that we shutdown?
<diddledan> my favourite photo of me is: https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos/of/111403714821787277067
<diddledan> is several years old now tho
<foobarry> my favourite photo of me is also a few years old http://i.imgur.com/SKHQFeI.jpg
<diddledan> foobarry, two or three years ago now?
<brobostigon> my favorite picture of myself, isnt me at all, its and androidified version of myself.
<jussi> I have a decent one on the nomovok website :)
<foobarry> i was a massive fatty when i was little
<foobarry> ~ 1-2yr old
<MooDoo> I was a shorty until I hit 13/14
<diddledan> that's ironic, because I'm a massive fatty now
<MooDoo> then I grew mega fast
<foobarry> try as i might, my BMI will not exceed about19
<MooDoo> I'm clinically obese :D
<diddledan> MooDoo, ditto
<jussi> Ive actually lost a bunch of weight in the last year or so...
<MooDoo> I'm lucky though as I'm tall so can get away with it for now
<foobarry> i think my dad took my pic on a russian camera
<jussi> 16kg to be precise :D
<diddledan> foobarry, communist!
<jussi> I still want to get rid of another 10kg if I can
<foobarry> people don't like it when i say its easier to lose weight than gain it
<diddledan> yeah, just don't eat anything for a month
<foobarry> or just eat less
<foobarry> its easier to go hungry than forcefeed
<foobarry> had around 800 cal lunch
<foobarry> http://www.boredpanda.com/funny-book-titles-covers/
<bigcalm> 2nd August looks promising for this year's RAT. Maybe I should have checked that my wife is available that weekend...
<bashrc> RAT?
<MartijnVdS> bashrc: real ale train
<bigcalm> !rat
<lubotu3> The Real Ale Train. A yearly Ubuntu UK loco event to celebrate friends, trains and ale. 21st September 2013, Hampshire, UK: http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-uk/2320-real-ale-train/
<bashrc> ah
<bigcalm> That's last year's link
<foobarry> so yesterday i thought i'd try pinterest
<foobarry> today its broken
<daftykins> coincidence? i think not
<daftykins> :>
<daftykins> foobarry: please join twitter next
<foobarry> i did. i completed it in had mode in less than a week
<foobarry> *hard
<daftykins> XD
<foobarry> target, to have your tweets seen by audience of 100,000
<foobarry> from start pt of 0 followers and 0 tweets
<foobarry> 5 tweets sent, total visibility 250,000
<foobarry> challenge over
<foobarry> 2nd challenge. break pinterest after 1 day
<foobarry> correlation...causation...
<pachon> HellO?
<pachon> No shit
<MooDoo> pachon_: we're here what can we do for you?
<MooDoo> rats
<daftykins> MooDoo: you scared them away :(
<davmor2> MooDoo: he saw your photo we need to hide that link :D
<bigcalm> popey: I should have checked with Hayley before I posted the dates. She's working the 2nd August and won't be able to attend
<bigcalm> I feel terrible
<popey> sucks to be you â»
<bigcalm> She's telling me to still go though
<popey> \o/
<popey> sounds like a plan!
<bigcalm> Heh
<daftykins> but bigcalm - is it a test? ;)
<bigcalm> Her reasoning being that she has her own weekends away without me.
<bigcalm> She'll be going to oggcamp (if there is one) with me, so not all is lost
<bigcalm> daftykins: one wonders. But I don't think my wife is like that
<daftykins> :)
<bigcalm> "If you really loved me, you'd stay at home and be miserable"
<daftykins> lol
<diddledan> why do global menus never work right?!
<diddledan> I've got a firefox window that refuses to show me it's menu
<shauno> have you tried showing it yours?
<shauno> actually, don't answer that.  I'll see myself out
<diddledan> shauno, webcam
<diddledan> my commit messages are getting somewhat cryptic
<diddledan> "replacement for replacement logo swooshy thing" was the latest
<diddledan> in other news www.maalox.co.uk went live today - cue jokes about farting and burps
<ali1234> diddledan: did you make that website?
<diddledan> ali1234, yes
<shauno> had an odd conversation with a customer today.  "oh I went to Ireland once.  There's no trees!".  not the typical yankgush
<diddledan> no trees, eh?
<shauno> why's the footer so narrow?  it looks like it's been pasted verbatim from someone's email like that
<ali1234> diddledan: where are the answers to "what bloats the most?"
<diddledan> there aren't any in a list - it's just trial and error
<diddledan> but, baked-beans, broccoli, fruit yoghurt, curry, chewing gum
<ali1234> wat
<ali1234> how can chewing gum cause trapped wind?
<bigcalm> Swallowing it?
<shauno> I had an idea but it's decidedly not family-friendly
<Pendulum> depending on the chewing gum, there could be additives that aren't helpful (I think some artificial sweeteners can cause bloating)
<davmor2> ali1234: the chewing produces saliva you swallow the saliva but it is a swallow of 20% saliva and 80% air meaning the air is trapped in the stomach
<mapps> hey
<daftykins> hi
<mapps> hows it going
<ali1234> davmor2: yeah i suppose that makes sense
<diddledan> why is there absolutely zero usable filesystems that are shared between linux and os x (and windows at that)
<diddledan> fat32 ftl
<shauno> exfat?
<diddledan> >.<
<ali1234> because developers won't touch OS X and windows?
<diddledan> exfat is just fat with bigger widgets afaict
<ali1234> (unless they're producing shovelware)
<diddledan> exfat doesn't do posix permissions?
<diddledan> ntfs would be great. if it worked on os x
<diddledan> hfs+ write-ability is only available on linux when journalling is turned off, and the driver is flaky such that apache refuses to serve php saved onto an hfs+ fs
<diddledan> looks like this is the problem I had before: http://slackrw.wordpress.com/2008/06/28/problems-with-apache-and-htaccess-on-a-hfs-partition/
<mapps> hfs3 is mac?
<shauno> it's been eons since I even considered such things.  the internet is my filesystem.
<diddledan> shauno, I need to share files between osx/windows and linux (osx or windows side depending on whether I'm on my mac or pc)
<ali1234> buy a NAS
<diddledan> ali1234, I need it to remain mobile
<diddledan> there's not much use having it on a nas when my nas is at home and I'm in the office
<arc__> i cant start tightvncserver
<arc__> It give me some error of no user variables set
<arc__> Can someone help me out please ?
<arc__> oh also good evening
<bashrc> good evening
<arc__> Sorry i am a bit of a  noob at this
<bashrc> oh we were all noobs once
<bashrc> you're running a vnc server?
<arc__> I have installed it
<arc__> But it wont start if i type vncserver -geometry etc
<bashrc> maybe it's already started
<bashrc> ps aux | grep vnc
<arc__> kk
<arc__> Nope
<bashrc> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDgH45AdCjk
<arc__> Kk
<arc__> I am using debian
<arc__> Sorry
<arc__> I am in the wrong place
<arc__> Haha
<popey> â»
<bashrc> I'm also running Debian as a server on a Beaglebone
<arc__> I am running wheezy on android
<arc__> Lol
<bashrc> nice
<arc__> Anyway it says no user environmental var has been set
<bashrc> are you using one of those Android/Ubuntu phones?  I don't know what they're called
<bashrc> the one which when plugged into a cradle becomes a desktop
<arc__> No just a tablet
<bashrc> ok
<arc__> Archos gamepad
<ali1234> has anyone ported ubuntu to jolla phone yet?
<arc__> How do i set the user vars
<arc__> No
<arc__> Port it your self
<ali1234> well i don't like to duplicate other's work
<ali1234> it should be trivial considering they both use libhybris
<ali1234> most likely nobody actually has one though :)
<arc__> Your not duplicate I ng someone's work its open sorted and u could do it faster
<ali1234> lol autocorrect
<arc__> Yea
<arc__> Nvm i will just uninstall it
<arc__> Lol
<arc__> Ty anyway
 * daubers waits for people to turn up to talk Rockets
<SuperMatt> so much this: http://londongrumblr.co.uk/post/78746254583/when-i-miss-my-train-because-im-stuck-behind-a-slow
<MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: I think killing them is legal in those cases
<SuperMatt> I'm sure you're absolutely right
<daftykins> i was thinking it was going to end "stuck behind a slow gin"
<popey> ali1234: a few canonical people have jolla phones
<mapps> they any good?
<popey> i havent seen them
<popey> well, I have held one, but not played much
<mapps> finally got my passport form back..now have to hope i dont get selected for an interview
<mapps> tis my 3rd one
<mapps> busy busy summer
<ali1234> my brother has one. i had to show him how to use it
<ali1234> the swipe interface is apparently not very discoverable if you don't know about it
<mapps> ive been thinking about getting a backup phone to take away with me
<mapps> not sure i fancy taking my iphone 5 to glastonbury/ibiza ...but then i cant use the same sim :( stupid nano sim
<daftykins> hehe
<daftykins> i kept the frame piece when mine got cut down so i can use it in my old phone still...
<daftykins> if only i knew where i put it...
<mapps> hmm but wont it fall out? as it pops out
<mapps> you got an iphone 5 too?
<mapps> like uhh itd be stupid for me to use a diff number when im on contract and get unlimited mins
<ali1234> well you don't want a jolla phone for that, they're not cheap
<daftykins> mapps: nah androids here
<daftykins> and nah since you just slide in the SIM i could just wedge it back in :>
<ali1234> a bit of scotch tape on one side would hold it in fine i expect
<daftykins> that's true
<ali1234> http://www.ebay.co.uk/bhp/micro-sim-adapter
<mapps> ah what are android phones sims then micro or nano?
<ali1234> all phones are different
<mapps> i thought android used the old size sms
<mapps> sims
<mapps> today and tomorrow then off
<mapps> yessssssssssssssssssssssssss
<daftykins> mapps: it's been changing slowly, with android devices
<directhex> depends on the phone
<mapps> hmmm
<mapps> ive got a USB stick 32gig..starts off fine when transferring to it..gets to 600mb or so and just stops
<mapps> ;/
<mapps> gets reallly hot too
<daftykins> was it a chinese cheapy from ebay? :D
<mapps> nie
<mapps> sandisk
<daftykins> hrmm
<mapps> 61.7.213.58 - - [06/Mar/2014:20:07:25 +0000] "GET /phpTest/zologize/axa.php HTTP/1.1" 404 222
<mapps> 61.7.213.58 - - [06/Mar/2014:20:07:26 +0000] "GET /phpMyAdmin/scripts/setup.php HTTP/1.1" 404 226
<mapps> 61.7.213.58 - - [06/Mar/2014:20:07:27 +0000] "GET /pma/scripts/setup.php HTTP/1.1" 404 219
<mapps> 61.7.213.58 - - [06/Mar/2014:20:07:28 +0000] "GET /myadmin/scripts/setup.php HTTP/1.1" 404 223
<mapps> gah
<mapps> wish i could work out how to stop these pests
<daftykins> can't stop a GET :)
<daftykins> wouldn't be a very good web server otherwise
<popey> mapps: what harm is it doing?
<mapps> well
<mapps> nothing
<mapps> but then it's annoying and also popey when i see all these people trying GET and random urls and big strings - i always wonder..like what if one of them succeeds?
<popey> dont havethat software installed then â»
<mapps> gah
<mapps> well id prefer to
<daftykins> mapps: run your HTTP daemon on a non-standard port? :)
<mapps> also daftykins / popey do you use any default iptables rules on your machines?
<daftykins> nah i don't firewall anything tbh
<mapps> and you popey ?
<ging> is there a way to list all packages which do not match the current one in the ubuntu repositories ?
<popey> eh?
<ging> well someone has installed something which has caused certain packages to be held at particular versions, which is stopping a lot of new things being installed or updates from working
<ging> but i can't find out what is causing the problem without following a massively long chain of what is depending on what
<ging> if i could just see what is installed that doesn't match the repository it would probably be fairly obvious
<daftykins> ging: multi user system?
<daftykins> can't just look through history?
<ging> daftykins: no there's been a lot of stuff being added and removed
<daftykins> ah
<bigcalm> Dave2: http://doodle.com/h7qqfhfk5gcp86ts
<Dave2> bigcalm, thanks
<bigcalm> I wonder if I should call it a day on the poll
<bigcalm> I'm calling it a day on the day
<bigcalm> Night peeps
<daftykins> nn sir
#ubuntu-uk 2014-03-07
<mapps> morning
<MooDoo> morning mapps
<mapps> sup mate
<MooDoo> tired, but glad it's friday
<MartijnVdS> Friday, Friday?
<diplo> Morning all
<MartijnVdS> \o
 * MartijnVdS purges a few old kernels
<MartijnVdS> about, say, 4GB of them
<MartijnVdS> à² _à² 
<bashrc> morning
<nigelb> Hurrah, it's a friday!
<bashrc> \o/
<popey> pip pip
<nigelb> And I'm nearly done with work.
 * nigelb runs.
<mapps> :)
<mapps> work nights nigelb ?
<mapps> raining again ugh
<nigelb> Nope, in a timezone far far away
<mapps> ah
<mapps> ;]
<popey> Anyone know of an easy way to select all text in a terminator window?
<popey> rather than just click-drag the whole length?
<popey> nvm, 5 fingers did it
<popey> mouse click, shift, home
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<davmor2> bigcalm: morning all
<bigcalm> davmor2: still not used to you appearing before 11am
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Friday and happy Doodle Day! :-D
<bigcalm> Did you say Doodle Day? http://doodle.com/h7qqfhfk5gcp86ts :)
<bigcalm> Happy updated kernel day
<bigcalm> Because upgrading your kernel on a Friday is the best time to do it :S
<foobarry> on read-only friday?
<bigcalm> Living on the edge (in an LTS world)
<MartijnVdS> can't wait for the release :)
<foobarry> of tardy tar?
<MartijnVdS> yeah
<foobarry> its gonna gonna tardy
<MartijnVdS> been running the beta on a few test vms, and it's great
<bigcalm> Been running 14.04 on the laptop and it works just fine :)
<MartijnVdS> that too :)
<bigcalm> Still a problem with the battery icon no appearing until the battery is low or you resume from sleep
<bigcalm> Otherwise good
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: you can configure that
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: or maybe it's your BIOS?
<bigcalm> I think it's a bug. czajkowski often complains about it as well
<bigcalm> And others
<DJones> bigcalm: I'll check mine when the Windows 8.1 update finally finishes downloading and installing
<bigcalm> Ta
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<popey> yo
<brobostigon> morning popey
<dwatkins> allo allo
<brobostigon> morning dwatkins
 * dwatkins waves
<brobostigon> o/
<shauno> o/
<dwatkins> somewhat incredibly, we have sunshine here in Edinburgh
<shauno> here too!
<dwatkins> \o
<brobostigon> blue skies here also.
<shauno> which can only mean one thing.  the heat-death of the universe
<dwatkins> indeed,it must be ragnarok
<dwatkins> sorry, RagnarÃ¶k
<dwatkins> ...which means "final destiny of the gods", and is about as close to "heat death of the universe" as 13th century Norse mythology can get, I'd say.
<shauno> I've been reading about those creepy coldwar-era stations that just broadcast nonsense.  One of the more prominent russian ones shut off overnight.  and no-one's quite sure if it's a good thing or not
<dwatkins> numbers stations, shauno?
<shauno> kinda, yeah  (this one doesn't actually do numbers, but same idea; UVB-76 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia )
<MartijnVdS> shauno: http://www.reddit.com/r/UkrainianConflict/comments/1zh4i5/for_those_familiar_with_the_russian_numbers/
<shauno> that's the one
<shauno> as of last night it's just gone silent.  which is kinda creepy for something that's been there for 30+ years
<shauno> anyway.  that's my "of course I'm working?" for the morning
<foobarry> i know a song about that
<foobarry> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9uMifNKYtug
<foobarry> thats a german numbers station
<bigcalm> I've heard other tracks use similar audio. It's quite odd
<bigcalm> Nice track
<popey> that reminds me, I started a list of youtube channels worth watching last night
<MartijnVdS> that's what the Subscribe button is for, isn't it? ;)
<popey> https://etherpad.mozilla.org/YouTubers
<popey> well, ones from other people
<popey> i.e. getting suggestions from something other than youtube itself
<foobarry> stereolab are in my top 3 all time favourite bands
<popey> \o/ more appearing magically
<foobarry> just seen an email about "coding for girls" worksho
<bashrc> which reminds me.  I should probably try installing etherpad again
<bashrc> I think more girls should be encouraged to code, and that coding should be regarded in school as a basic literacy skill
<popey> The code club I run is 50/50 boys/girls
<MartijnVdS> it's a way of thinking that not enough people can do atm :(
<foobarry> i prefer the idea of making things appealing to all, yeah
<bashrc> I think learning to code is probably nothing like as hard as learning French or Chinese
<foobarry> although marketing can be done in targeted way
<foobarry> python..C...french...perl..chinese?
<foobarry> i'd prob put french at the easiest end actually
<bigcalm> popey: do you know of any papaphobes?
<bashrc> compared to french C is incredibly simple and unambiguous
<foobarry> sans blague
<foobarry> i learned C without any goto's
<shauno> I learnt french without any grammar :/
<popey> bigcalm: pass
<foobarry> grammar is the best bit
<Hornet> http://ramblingrant.co.uk/2014/03/06/virgin-media-superhub-7-second-security-flaw/
<MartijnVdS> nice
<shauno> default passwords are bad, mmkay?
<Hornet> well clearly
<davmor2> Hornet: I found the superhub was crap at doing both routing and network connection, so swithed it to modem only mode it has no password :)
<shauno> mine isn't a superhub, but I did the same.  it's still reachable though
<shauno> (it seems like it shouldn't be, but my router is quite happy to push 192.168 out the wan port, which seems wrong)
<foobarry> gok wan?
<davmor2> shauno: mine works correctly
<shauno> I'm still not sure if this is correct or not, to be honest.  in modem mode it answers to 192.168.1.1.  since I use 10.x for my lan. 192.168.x gets routed so I can still reach the router
<shauno> but I'm not sure it should route 192.168 out the front door, that's bogon territory
<foobarry> AlanBell: which crm do you use?
<foobarry> seem to remember you mentioning an OSS one
<TheOpenSourcerer> foobarry: vtiger or openERP
<foobarry> ta
<daftykin1> shauno: i remember the old virgin media cable modems would run a web admin page on 192.168.1.1 or similar, regardless of your actual network
<popey> they still do, on http://192.168.100.1/
<shauno> yeah, that's what UPC's little pseudo-cisco box is doing too.  it'll always answer 192.168.1.1, no matter what address you've assigned (or not) to it
<daftykin1> http://www.speedtest.net/result/3354307628.png
<daftykin1> mates mate that i mentioned got 330/30 FTTP :/
<diplo> fttp? Know of fttc and ftth ?
<diplo> And git!
<MartijnVdS> diplo: P = permises
<daftykin1> to the premises
<diplo> ah, so I guess that is business related instead of h for homeowners
<diplo> cheers
<daftykin1> nope!
<diplo> Oh :)
<daftykin1> he's in a new housing development apparently
<diplo> Oh right, I thought that was known as FTTH ( Fibre to the home )
<diplo> Probably outdated by me
<diplo> And still git!
<diplo> We have FTTC around here, all around is enabled but....
<diplo> None of the business areas have been done :(
<daftykin1> are you in a little one-house black spot?
<diplo> Houses are done, they're not doing businesses any time in the next few years
<diplo> Asked the BT Openreach guy and he said he believes it is because there are say 10 businesses in a place where there could be 40-50 homes, cost ratio
<daftykin1> ah-har
<MartijnVdS> and businesses don't use more bandwidth anyway..
<MartijnVdS> à² _à² 
<daftykin1> hah just noticed my nicj
<daftykin1> nick too
<diplo> We're debating EFM here just so we can have a better connection to our Headoffice
<diplo> Just quite expensive
<davmor2> popey: no in modem mode they don't
<davmor2> not even
<daftykin1> diplo: what's that?
<popey> yup, they do
<popey> mine is in modem mode and that url above was copy/pasted from my browser
<diplo> Ethernet to the premises basically, we have it at ehadoffice, get 5/5 connection
<daftykin1> nice
<MartijnVdS> diplo: 5/5 mbit over ethernet?
<diplo> Ethernet first Mile it stands for
<daftykin1> ah
<diplo> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethernet_in_the_first_mile
<davmor2> popey: hmm let me try then
<daftykin1> err, does my nick show as daftykin1?
<diplo> yeah
<diplo> MartijnVdS: ^
<diplo> daftykin1: Yup
<popey> http://imgur.com/VC0wjNl
<MartijnVdS> daftykin1: it does
<daftykin1> weird, client won't change it
<daftykins> ah
<daftykins> nevermind 8)
<davmor2> popey: oh yeah how bizarre never worked before, I think I might of been on older software though
<MartijnVdS> diplo: that's slower than DSL, which goes up to 40 or 80 here I think
<popey> its always worked for me
<diplo> MartijnVdS: You can get higher speeds - Just costs  more! But its not a shared line either
<MartijnVdS> diplo: hmm.. just like my fibre (and I'm on the 7th floor)
<diplo> Our office was having issues with speeds going up and down and didn't want to pay for a leased line
<davmor2> popey: to get out of modem only mode before I used to have to sit with a pin in the rest button for 30seconds as that port was never open
<diplo> No Fibre for our offices in nottingham
<davmor2> popey: I had to do some reboots so I'm assuming that pulled in the newer software
<davmor2> popey: ah wait no this is the replacement superhub so it's newer anyway
<DJones> Grr, stupid windows updates, removed/stopped grub loading, just boots straight into windows now
<daftykins> :(
<daftykins> didn't know it did that
<daftykins> it's not even patch Tuesday yet!
<DJones> This was Win 8 to Win 8.1 upgrade
<daftykins> oh that's pretty major
<daftykins> i'd have just installed from 8.1 media to begin
<DJones> Hopefully its just a case of booting with live usb, install & run boot-repair
<daftykins> should be :)
<DJones> ok, confued, if I use the power button, I boot straight into windows, if I use the recovery button to get to a bios boot menu, I can boot the installed version of Ubuntu, am I better installing boot repair on the installed released rather than using a live usb?
<DJones> s/confued/confused/
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: is it uefi?
<DJones> MartijnVdS: Yes, with secure boot turned off
<MartijnVdS> DJones: running grub-install from inside the installed system might help
<DJones> MartijnVdS: Thats what I was thinking
<DJones> hmmh, no boot-repair available to install
<DJones> Ah, its a ppa
<DJones> But no trusty package
<daftykins> DJones: but you just run grub-install as MartijnVdS said no?
<MartijnVdS> that's what I would do
<DJones> Good spot, I missed that
<MartijnVdS> there's also efibootmgr
<MartijnVdS> you can use that to manage stuffs
<DJones> grub-install fixed it, thanks MartijnVdS daftykins
<daftykins> this one's all on him :D
<daftykins> lol that was funny
<daftykins> i accidentally logged into a clients google apps with user as username instead of user@domain
<daftykins> it started telling me there was suspicious activity on the account and so it had been disabled
<daftykins> go back and log in properly... sorted
<diddledan> daftykins: how did it log you in if you used the wrong username?
<daftykins> this is what i wonder
<daftykins> that's how they used to be done, you'd visit your companies' personal login and it'd work
<daftykins> now they've made it one login to rule them all
<diddledan> what happened to chloe on the new series of 24 to make her change her style so radically? http://img2.timeinc.net/ew/i/2014/03/06/24-EW-Exclusive-02.jpg
<shauno> drowned kitten is a style now?
<ali1234> they are still making that show?
<diddledan> they stopped
<diddledan> just started up again
<daftykins> lmao
<daftykins> was about to type out a theory before i realised how inappropriate it was
<daftykins> she conveys a bit of an aspie or some such pretty well in the early series
<daftykins> i've only seem about half of them though
<diddledan> aspie?
<daftykins> someone suffering from aspergers or a similar affliction
<diddledan> according to wikipedia the new series is going to be a limited run of 12eps
<diddledan> aah
<daftykins> D: so it should be called 24/2
<diddledan> it's got stephen fry in it!?!
<daftykins> oh dear.
<diddledan> as the british PM no-less
<popey> hah
<daftykins> hehehe
<popey> saw him mention that on twitter
<foobarry> never seen 24 before
<daftykins> :O
<popey> i used to binge watch that
<foobarry> a bit like breaking bad, i can't give up 5x24 hrs of my life watching stuff
<foobarry> or however many series
<daftykins> it's best not to think of it in time terms :D
<daftykins> fair enough if you'd be using that time far more wisely though
<AlanBell>  /join #ubuntu-design
<AlanBell> fail
<foobarry> sleeping
<ali1234> i have seen one episode of 24
<foobarry> the last one?
<foobarry> that would save a lot of time
<ali1234> i don't know which episode it was
<shauno> I don't consider TV a huge waste of time because I multitask.  if I just sat on my knees and gazed into it like a kid, then sure
<ali1234> jack bauer spent the whoel episode hiding in a bush, talking to people on his mobile phone
<ali1234> and then every fifteen minutes, BEEP BOOP BEEP BOOP
<ali1234> that's all i can remember about it
<diddledan> ali1234: that's real-time tv for you :-p
<foobarry> was he peeing in the bush?
<daftykins> seems somewhat an exaggeration ;)
<diddledan> WEEEEE
<daftykins> foobarry: Jack Bauer never pees
<foobarry> does he spend half an hour per series on a tricky dump?
<diddledan> an hourly tricky dump would be exhausting
<daftykins> guys :P
<foobarry> per series
<diddledan> aha
<diddledan> I misread
<foobarry> : PermGen space error on tomcat?
<diddledan> oO_
<foobarry> or spend entire series 6 suking up and shivering in bed with flu
<diddledan> I don't think tv people ever get flu?
<foobarry> or lock their cars
<diddledan> and yet the thieves always have to use a slimjim on any car they come across - weird
<daftykins> hrmm got a VPS going 19MB into swap
<daftykins> time for more RAM? :)
<diddledan> daftykins: how big is the VPS?
<foobarry> getting persistent ssh attempts from rackspace user...nuaghty
<foobarry> or just hacked
<daftykins> diddledan: 1GB RAM, hosts one wordpress site and two static sites atm
<diddledan> 1GB should be plenty for a small site
<daftykins> but it's got a lot of automagic management jazz, symbiosis from bigv (Bytemark)
<diddledan> eww
<daftykins> yeah =/
<daftykins> i've got two wordpress sites and two static ones on it really, but not many visitors to each
<diddledan> I just signedf up for the free-tier of redhat's openshit service
<diddledan> f**
<diddledan> I have just**
<diddledan> gonna put a node app on there
<diddledan> the node app doesn't exist just yet, I need to invent it
<daftykins> diddledan: sounds like you've judged it already :(
<diddledan> lol
<daftykins> but yeah i probably want to keep all usage out of swap right? :>
<shauno> not always.  if you have something in memory that never gets touched, it may as well get shelved
<daftykins> in fairness it's staying static if i keep loading up the sites that are on it
<diddledan> there's no packaged ubuntu/canonical equivalent anyplace I can see. ubuntu has juju which 1) is too big for me, and 2) doesn't autoscale
<shauno> (eg, termkit, getty on a vps)
<daftykins> hmm it's managing it pretty well, usage dropped 240MB when i started loading the sites it hosts, heh
<ball> Does Ubuntu use IPP to find printers?
<MartijnVdS> IPP isn't a discovery protocol I think
<MartijnVdS> but it uses IPP to print
<ball> Hmm... ok
<directhex> IPP isn't for discovery. most printers support multiple discovery protocols though, advertising an IPP presence
<directhex> e.g. mdns, wins
<ball> Which does Ubuntu use?
<diddledan> avahi/mdns is the standard ball
<shauno> I was just reading the cups docs, and it says they use snmp broadcast.  I really hope that's outdated / a bare-faced lie / I read it completely wrong
<MartijnVdS> shauno: they do several things
<diddledan> shauno: at least they didn't mistype it as smtp as I've seen others do
<davmor2> bigcalm: thanks for posting your wristband photo on facebook :)
<bigcalm> davmor2: good that it cheered you up
<daftykins> diddledan: lol, what's the email address for your printer?
<daftykins> ;D
<shauno> broadcast smtp sounds terrifying yet interesting
<MartijnVdS> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simple_Network_Management_Protocol#Autodiscovery
<daftykins> XD
<diddledan> even better, multicast smtp or maybe anycast smtp
<MartijnVdS> shauno: SNMP, not SMTP
<ali1234> broadcast smpte would be quite reasonable though
<ali1234> if a little unusual for cups
<shauno> MartijnVdS: oh I know, referencing diddledan's "at least they didn't mistype .."
<bigcalm> Something to cheer your day: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZu097wb8wU
<ball> Hmm...
<ali1234> bigcalm: you might like youngblood brass band then
<diddledan> rumours are making it into the movie blogosphere that lana and andy wachowski are working on a second trilogy of matrixes
<diddledan> matrices?
<ball> I should probably watch the first ones again.
<diddledan> bigcalm: either my speakers are failing, or that video is turd or the musicians only know one note each
<davmor2> bigcalm: 2cellos
<bigcalm> diddledan: not everybody likes the same kind of music
<ali1234> i do
<diddledan> bigcalm: I think it lost something in the translation to cheapo-phone video
<diddledan> as in telephone, not saxamaphone
<ali1234> brass always sounds harsh
<ali1234> unless they're doing hymns or something
<mapps> yo
<maps|wrk> hello
<daftykins> o/
<maps|wrk> busy busy working away
<maps|wrk> :D
<daftykins> ^_^
<daftykins> start of your day once again?
<maps|wrk> anyone know of any good guides for setting up an email server on my home box? just to learn
<maps|wrk> yes sir
<maps|wrk> :[
<daftykins> wowzer
<maps|wrk> but 11 days off after tonight..hoorah
<maps|wrk> good riddance work
<daftykins> i'd always thought home email would be a pain to maintain so i've shyed away from it
<daftykins> a friend really wanted me to set it up on his home server but i refused XD
<maps|wrk> :D
<maps|wrk> hm need something to watch on 4od
<daftykins> this is solely down to my inexperience though
<maps|wrk> watched all of first dates (very funny) ..no new ep of babylon yet hmpf
<ali1234> maps|wrk: brass eye
<maps|wrk> ah might check it after
<maps|wrk> got a 3 hr break ..i would watrch it now but thing is sometimes 4od/iplayer crash my stupid work pc
<maps|wrk> then i have to speak to service desk or someone and well pretend work stuff crashed:)
<bashrc> yey for work stuff
<maps|wrk> ja
<maps|wrk> all the stupid vb written apps
<maps|wrk> O_o
<bashrc> well I wrote vb apps once, but that was over a decade ago
<maps|wrk> thats ok then
<maps|wrk> :)
<maps|wrk> not anymore :)
<maps|wrk> casino after work or just buy some vodka from tescos..hmm no work on a saturday for once..gonna get drunk
<daftykins> http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/share/36d25b6c793ab180701ef1e494bb33a5.html
<daftykins> *patiently hopes there won't be anymore drops*
<maps|wrk> find out why?
<daftykins> nope, but had a call logged with the ISP for a while now
<daftykins> saw my service disconnected (but not line sync, just authentication) overnight so i got a new IP
<maps|wrk> hmm
<maps|wrk> think id better edit my grub boot menu
<maps|wrk> if my box restarts it doesnt boot back up..it sits there on the options bit where you can chose ubuntu / memtest etc
<daftykins> sounds like what happens when there was an issue
<daftykins> ubuntu defaults to hitting that menu and not picking one as default i think
<maps|wrk> yea
<maps|wrk> i need to set a default
<maps|wrk> i assume you can ? ive done it before with diff dists
<daftykins> i think there's a different way of just disabling that 'safety mechanism'
<maps|wrk> yea i wouldnt mind removing the menu all together tbh
<maps|wrk> maybe i should wait till im in front of the machine:P
<daftykins> it's always there whether it's displayed or not :D
<maps|wrk> if i do it now and reboot..well might not be coming back
<daftykins> probably a wise idea ;)
<maps|wrk> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-VHBIELZEY - they play the same songs every single year, i am the rsurrection every single time ive been
<foobarry> been sent upstairs. wifey has girl friends round
<daftykins> d'aww
<foobarry> baby keeps stirring due to loud voices
<daftykins> i bet they're making it sound like a chicken coop down there?
<foobarry> they are teachers so they all have colds
<foobarry> so i'm installing redminecrm
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/oyoo0tmlr60x6go/IMG_20140217_165849.jpg
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/uvux8l2yoqgvx59/IMG_20140217_170045.jpg
<daftykins> gotta love the 'round town mystery staircases
<diddledan> fun
<maps|wrk>  SSL connection error
<maps|wrk> hm
<maps|wrk> Application Blocked  Access to the application you were trying to use has been blocked in accordance with company policy. Please contact your system administrator if you believe this is in error.  User: uk365office
<maps|wrk> argh
<maps|wrk> hate that
<maps|wrk> get stupid little messages when reading some news sites if they include an image off like imgurl or somewhere
<diddledan> user uk365office?!
<maps|wrk> i removed my name:P
<maps|wrk> it has /name too
<maps|wrk> heh
<MartijnVdS> popey: added another channel to your etherpad :)
<ali1234> MartijnVdS: i was going to ask you for more interesting youtube channels :)
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: even more?
<ali1234> haha someone else likes birgirpall
<ali1234> most of my favourite channels post like two videos a year
<popey> MartijnVdS: thanks
<maps|wrk> hm etherpad sounds interesting
#ubuntu-uk 2014-03-08
<maps|wrk> compiling ntp taking a while
<shauno> I gotta ask, why are you compiling it?
<maps|wrk> wrong one i think anyway..wanted to run an ntp server ..bored;/
<daftykins> maps|wrk: surely you don't have time for that... ;)
<maps|wrk> :)
<map> hey
<foobarry> mornings
<map> morning mate
<foobarry> here have a free ebook http://www.blacklibrary.com/new-at-bl/I-was-there.html
<map> sounds like it might be worh a read
<calju16> good morning chaps!
<map> orning
<map> *morning
<foobarry> just got on a youtube trip
<foobarry> hey ya-> teenage dirtbag -> in too deep/sum41 -> jerk it out
<map> heh
<foobarry> random 90s music
<foobarry> jerk it out reminds me of ssx3
<foobarry> loved that game
<map> ssx3? cant think what that stands for
<map> too early;]
<calju16> lol
<calju16> Oh wow... updates galore this morning!
<popey> morning
<foobarry> ssx3 snowboarding
<map> ah
<popey> ooh, new wallpapers
<calju16> gotta love 'em!
<foobarry> inspiral carpets, saturn5...20 yrs old :-|
<foobarry> japan is so wrong http://www.dailydot.com/lol/babymetal-metal-japanese-pop/
<calju16> Lol, now that's actually pretty interesting!
<foobarry> "interesting"
<foobarry> seemed to be a large crowd of perv^H^H^H^ boys/men
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<popey> yo
<brobostigon> morning popey
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<brobostigon> morning bigcalm
<map> jeez
<map> ive sat here and almost drunk the whole bottle of zubrowka ...its hard judging how much is a single or double at home
<foobarry> sharpie on the outside on your glass
<foobarry> graduated markings
<popey> map: one finger or two fingers generally
<foobarry> empty nutella jars (small) make very nice tumblers
<popey> i dont think we've ever finished a jar of nutella
<foobarry> :-|
<popey> rarely buy it
 * popey ponders what to do for lunch
<foobarry> i don't eat it but wifey chugs it
<foobarry> saturday so i'm having usual..bacon sarnie
<popey> need to get some herbs for the lamb for tea
<map> go out popey
<popey> http://www.bbc.co.uk/food/recipes/slow_roast_leg_of_lamb_34951 doing that
<map> hungry horse is ok
<popey> my kids love hh
<map> the one in chertsey is it?
<map> wait
<map> no thats not where i go
<foobarry> mmm i should do that lamb in the slow cooker
<popey> farnborough
<popey> dont think my leg of lamb will fit in the slow cooker
<map> hmm
<map> is tghere one in camberly?
<popey> its fine in the oven anyway
<map> maybe i went there
<popey> map: hawley
<foobarry> i wonder how much it costs to run the oven at 160 for 3.5 hrs
<popey> hmm, i should go and get some herbs brb
<foobarry> went into loft for some undercoat. tin had dried out solid :(
 * foobarry has rosemary bush in front garden
<foobarry> maybe thats what going out means
<penguin42> does George know?
<map> ah no
<map> i went to the kings arms popey
<map> i just had to check their site:0
<map> and thats what it said
<map> GU249BL is nearest
<popey> bah, can't go out to get herbs, wifey ill
<map> :(
<map> why cant you go on your own
<popey> someone needs to look after the kids
<map> ah but she;s there
<popey> ill, in bed
<map> oh
<popey> minetest is a pretty decent free alternative to minecraft it turns out
<popey> and very expandible
<foobarry> friendly neighbour?
<map> urh
<map> my heart hurts again;/
<map> same as yesterday
<foobarry> must be the vodka
<map> na
<map> smoking
<map> i quit but smoke time and time again like
<foobarry> map is the king of vice: casinos, spirits and smoking...and irc
<brobostigon> also i find minetest to be somewhat more resource friendly compared to minecraft.
<map> and vodka..pfft i aint drunk that much:)
<map> get lost foobarry
<map> lol
<map> thats why i have no girlfriend and im on my own :)
<foobarry> you work night shifts don't you?
<foobarry> must be hard to socialise
<map> ya
<map> yea it is
<foobarry> best way i know of talking to new people is walking a dog
<map> not sure what that means
<foobarry> its not a euphemism
<map> ive seen you in here before..am i a new people
<foobarry> i mean irl#
<map> ah
<brobostigon> its about a common interest with other people.
<map> yea
<foobarry> walk a dog, you are guaranteed to have a convo with soemone
<brobostigon> about dogs.
<foobarry> and also you get to ask dogs names, which isn't weird
<foobarry> talking about dogs is the gateway to converation
<foobarry> anyone will talk to you, girls in 20s, blokes your age, teenagers, housewives
<map> on where?
<foobarry> field, park, woods
<foobarry> outside a shop, everyone just walks to talk
<map> this has to be a joke
<foobarry> "i iz wanting a dog, my mum won't let me innit"
<map> yea
<foobarry> nope
<foobarry> probably need a cute/friendly/quirky dog
<foobarry> whenver i tie her outside a shop she does a impression of abandoned puppy
<brobostigon> cuteness in a package, apparently.
<foobarry> minetest looks a lot like mincecraft
<brobostigon> it is,
<foobarry> why do my fingers always type mince
<brobostigon> i didnt see that mistake.
<foobarry> i wonder why they shows you the crime on joanthan creek last week
<foobarry> haven't watched this weeks one yet
<brobostigon> i havent watched the new one yet either.
<aquarius> marxjohn1on, ping about btsync
<calju16> hey there folks.
<calju16> hows it going?
<calju16> does anyone have any experience with Java?
<penguin42> not good experience....
<calju16> well, I'm trying to get addon chat to load in a website - I've just re-installed and updated java on my machine, but it still won't seem to work
<popey> aquarius: btsync?
<aquarius> popey, ya
<aquarius> am playing with it
 * popey played with it and switched
<popey> to syncthing instead
<aquarius> my two big concerns were: can I browse files on my mobile without syncing them all, and can it sync between two natted machines on different lans?
<aquarius> and I'm fine with both
<aquarius> however, there is a new issue, which is: if you add files to a folder your ios phone already knows about, then it correctly shows you the files but does not download them
<popey> there is a btsync for ios?
<aquarius> but... when you first set up a folder on ios, it syncs the whole content, afaict
<aquarius> there is indeed
<aquarius> and android
<aquarius> and there's an ubuntu arm client
<aquarius> which ought to not be all that difficult to wedge into a click package ;)
<aquarius> popey, syncthins is single-folder, so I can't use it. Also, no arm port, no android port, and no ios port, yet :)
<popey> there is an arm port
<popey> I asked him to, and he did
<popey> i have run it on my ubuntu phone
<aquarius> oh, sorry, there is but it's listed as untested. Apologies.
<aquarius> the single-folder thing is the killer for me, though.
<popey> syncthing is also open source
<aquarius> what turned you off btsync?
<popey> the fact that its proprietary and relies on an external service
<aquarius> I'm not all that worried about opensourceness
<aquarius> it has to rely on an external service for nat-to-nat syncing, though
<aquarius> if there's no server anywhere, you can't do stun/turn stuff
<popey> no, it does not.
<popey> (need to rely on an external service)
<popey> i run it on one box with a public IP which is the central server
<popey> and I control that box
<aquarius> that's an external service :)
<aquarius> you might happen to *run* it ;)
<aquarius> I don't have anything like that
<popey> no, you rely on a 3rd party
<popey> and send who-knows-what to them
<aquarius> ah. By "external" I thought you meant "outside your network on the public internet", and you actually meant "run by someone who isn't me".
<popey> yes
<aquarius> I'm not worried about that; if I wasn't using something like btsync I'd be using U1 or Dropbox
<aquarius> which are also external :)
<popey> well, thats my goal
<aquarius> by both definitions :)
<popey> not use u1/dropbox/btsync for that reason
<aquarius> fair enough. I'm not as worried about other people's servers as you.
<popey> you've changed â»
<aquarius> I have.
<aquarius> Life is just too short to wear the stupid tin foil hat all the time.
<aquarius> Convenience and beauty, that's what I like :)
<popey> its not about tin foil hat
<aquarius> oh?
<popey> well, there's a bit of that
<popey> but I like that I can sync between my machines and not be reliant on a 3rd party at all
<aquarius> how is "I won't use a server if I don't run it" not tin foil hat?
<bashrc> the quickest way to lose your freedom is to focus only upon convenience
<aquarius> I mean, it's justified, if it worries you
<popey> because tin foil hat is a pejorative term
<aquarius> bashrc, you're assuming that I care about my freedom enough for that to be a problem.
<popey> and I don't associate with that stereotype
<aquarius> popey, yes, and I shouldn't have phrased it that way.
<popey> I just want contro
<popey> I just want to know where my shit is
<popey> *handwavy* some server in the cloud
<popey> _not_ good enough
<aquarius> Myself, I am massively aware that I am a considerably worse sysadmin than someone who's paid to do it.
<popey> ditto
<bashrc> also I want to know where the logs and private keys are
<popey> i also like playing with new stuff now and then
<bashrc> if I don't control them, then I'm someone else's puppet
<popey> syncthing and go are new stuff
<aquarius> that means that if I try and run a whole service myself, I'll just screw it up and it won't work, and I need it to work.
<bashrc> I have a set of instructions for you at freedombone.uk.to
<aquarius> BTSync say that the stuff which goes through their server is encrypted. Now, might they be lying? Yes. Am I prepared to take the risk that they're downright deceitful just in order to steal my stuff, in order that I can have everything backed up and available on all my devices in three commands and never have to touch it again? Yes.
<popey> not the vector I am worried about
<popey> "Hello BtSync, We are XXX, we would like to see the data for user "sil""
<popey> "Ok"
<popey> bashrc: is that your website?
<aquarius> Right. I'm not worried *enough* about that to put myself to relatively serious inconvenience to avoid it.
<aquarius> It is perfectly reasonable for someone else to see that tradeoff differently from how I do.
<aquarius> (and I shouldn't implicitly sneer at it by calling it tin-foil-hat-ness, for which apologies.)
<bashrc> are you sure that your social graph is of no interest to the surveillance aparatus?
<aquarius> No. I think it possibly is.
<bashrc> maybe you're within two degrees of someone
<aquarius> My point is not "I think that I won't get noticed", it's "am I worried *enough* about getting noticed to do extra work to avoid that problem", and the answer is: no.
<bashrc> maybe your patterns happen to be similar to the patterns of someone
<bashrc> by chance of bad data mining methods
<bashrc> error, over-generalisation, etc
<aquarius> I agree. If I get picked up for something, it will likely be unfair and wrong that I was picked up.
<aquarius> Again, am I worried enough about the risk of that that I'm prepared to go to big effort to avoid it? No.
<aquarius> My files are, tbh, less of a concern here than my social graph, and I'm not going to stop using twitter and g+ and gmail either.
<aquarius> Given that I'm already assuming the inherent risk by using those services, putting my synced files through BTSync's servers in (what they say is) an encrypted fashion does not, in my opinion, measurably increase that risk.
<aquarius> I don't need the "freedombox"; I have a server already. That bit's not the problem. What I want is to be able to sync files from my dad's machine to my server, for syncing to happen automatically without me having to do anything once I've set up a folder, and to be able to browse (and individually download) my files from my phone(s).
<aquarius> I *could* set all that up myself -- run rsync commands, ssh tunnel from my phone into my server, write a little web gui to do it.
<bashrc> maybe yes
<aquarius> But that's so much more work than "add-apt-repository btsync; apt-get install btsync" that I just don't want to do it.
<bashrc> is btsync similar to rsync?
<aquarius> No. rsync is (as you know) explicit point-to-point copying -- it's basically a much more efficient "cp". btsync is bit-torrent based; you set a magic key on a particular folder, and then teach a client on another machine that magic key, and it uses bittorrent (probably) to transfer the data.
<bashrc> apparently bittorrent sync is closed source.  ergo it can't possibly be secure
<aquarius> No. Ergo you can't possibly *know* that it's secure, which is not the same thing.
<bashrc> if it's unverifiable you can safely assume it's backdoored
<aquarius> However, as mentioned above, I'm not all that worried about that, because I think it's reasonable to trust what BitTorrent.com say about it. Again, it's obviously fine that some people would make that tradeoff differently from me.
<aquarius> popey, did you listen to http://hackerpublicradio.org/eps.php?id=1441 ? that's an illustration of just how *much* I've changed :)
<bashrc> which is fine if you want anyone to be able to see what you're doing (such as an open source project, public discussion group, etc)
 * neuro does the "changing ec2 instance type massively improves performance" happy dance
<neuro> and when i say massive, i mean mahoosive
<neuro> https://www.dropbox.com/s/w375hm6gnsbeznl/Screenshot%202014-03-08%2014.46.41.png
<Hornet> anyone hit a wonderful bug wherein the usb keyboard dies at installation?
<Hornet> utterly hosed now, as I can't install on my server at all
<neuro> no, but then again i can't remember the last time i did an install with a usb keyboard
<mfraz74> only time I had to use a USB keyboard was when I installed it on a server. Never had any problems with it dying. Have you tried an older version?
<neuro> and have you tried connecting to all the USB ports?
<Hornet> tried all usb ports yes
<Hornet> 6 in total
<Hornet> two keyboards
<Hornet> only other port is an e-sata
<Hornet> so....
<Hornet> I've not tried an older version, I suppose that might in theory work
<mfraz74> does it finish the install? is ssh enabled?
<Hornet> previous LTS would make some sense
<neuro> what version are you trying to install?
<Hornet> does it hell
<Hornet> dies at language selection
<neuro> what version are you trying to install?
<Hornet> one second
<neuro> k
<Hornet> on a dying laptop atm
<neuro> awww
<Hornet> swapthrashes every time I try to do anything
<Hornet> ubuntu-13.10-server-amd64.iso
<Hornet> from a USB stick
<neuro> yup
<mfraz74> Would a network console install work? https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/NetworkConsole
<neuro> 13.10 has problems allegedl
<neuro> y
<neuro> http://windowssecrets.com/forums/showthread.php/157789-SOLVED!-Ubuntu-13-10-keybored-and-mouse-stops-working-after-some-time!
<neuro> looks like injecting some noacpi love to the kernel will solve it
<Hornet> oho
<Hornet> one moment
<Hornet> or several, while that page deigns to load
<Hornet> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1244176 that seems to be it btw
<neuro> yeah, that's talking about the desktop install
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 1244176 in linux (Ubuntu Trusty) "Server 13.10 Install Fails with USB Keyboard (Appears to Hang)" [High,Fix released]
<neuro> the page i linked to
<neuro> yeah so mashing F6 at the boot screen of the installer seems to be the way to go
<neuro> and add the acpi=off and noapic options
<Hornet> shall give it a shot shortly and report back
<Hornet> thanks :)
<Hornet> neuro: him no work
<Hornet> I'm using a unetbootin-made stick, so have no F6 option, but tab edits the kernel command
<Hornet> --acpi=off did nothing
<Hornet> noapic doesn't alter anything either
<Hornet> so, I now cannot install at all
<Hornet> wonderful
<Hornet> should I try the old LTS?
 * Hornet pokes neuro
<neuro> yo
<neuro> actually, if you're installing a server, LTS makes the most sense
<neuro> 12.04 will be supported until 2017, and 14.04 is out next month, so you could do-release-upgrade to that if you wanted to
<neuro> (well, once 14.04.1 is out, historically speaking)
<Hornet> yus, that's what I was thinking
<Hornet> it's more steps backwards, but only one forwards later on
<Hornet> the unsettling thing though, is I had a bug like this before once
<Hornet> with bloody Gutsy
<Hornet> so that's clearly not been fixed too well
<Hornet> thus I do have to wonder if it'll fix it
<Hornet> otherwise I suppose a net install is the only option
<Hornet> which is mad
<neuro> you should be fine with 12.04
<Hornet> downloading
<Hornet> once more unto the breach
<Hornet> back in a while!
<Hornet> thanks again
<neuro> heh
<SuperMatt> howdy strangers
<brobostigon> afternoodlings SuperMatt
<SuperMatt> is this lovely afternoon finding you well?
<brobostigon> sunny warm blue skies. :)
<SuperMatt> I don't know where this cleamant weather has come from
<brobostigon> north atlantic gulf stream shift?
<SuperMatt> ah yes, probably that
 * SuperMatt closes down gimp
<SuperMatt> turns out you can't polish a turd
<daftykins> guys help, my cat is trying to re-enact the Shining under my bathroom door D:
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/du3h198rtrlzo9l/IMG_20140308_164151.jpg
 * SuperMatt stops taking selfies
<SuperMatt> I worry that right now I'm taking a look at a picture which was captured while you were on the loo
<daftykins> have no fear, i took that whilst cleaning
<SuperMatt> phew
<SuperMatt> ok, I need a "going out" album to listen to
<foobarry> just watch this 10 times instead http://s3-ec.buzzfed.com/static/2014-03/enhanced/webdr05/1/8/anigif_enhanced-20624-1393682176-3.gif
<penguin42> heck, Scan has got a by-royal-appointment
<marshmn> is there any certification available for Ubuntu system admins?
<marshmn> if not official Ubuntu specific ones, then can anyone recommend an alternative?
<MartijnVdS> marshmn: there's LPI
<penguin42> marshmn: I've never really done any of that, but perhaps lpi.org ?
<marshmn> ok, thanks, will take a look further at those
<marshmn> this also looks of interest: https://linuxacademy.com/
<marshmn> we have some staff at work who are at different levels, and I'm trying to figure out the best way to bring everyone up to a standard that we need
<marshmn> since we do a fair bit of work with AWS as well as with Linux in general, that link looks like it could well be what I'm looking for
<penguin42> marshmn: Check it's actually certifications you want
<marshmn> it's certainly not just that
<marshmn> certainly it's training too
<marshmn> I just wondered if there were exams/certifications out there that are decent and would ensure that everyone has reached a required standard
<marshmn> but for sure it's only part of what I'm looking into
<daftykins> i think we got visited by a Linux Academy guy when i was at Uni way back in ~2007
<map> urgh
<map> feel worsre than i hoped
<map> drunk the entire bottle passed out
<map> :D
<jussi> I may or may not have had too much to drink also... :P
<map> :D
<map> i didnt realise id drunk the entire bottle..its so nice
<jussi> btw, I am currently "here" if someone has some drinking in mind... or even just "hanging out
<jussi> "
<map> what you been drinking
<MartijnVdS> something finnish, most likely
<map> ;D
<map> so you must like heineken by that reckoning
<map> heineken s ok though
<MartijnVdS> map: nah, wine = faster :P
<map> not amstel even?
<MartijnVdS> map: *shudder*
<map> lol
<map> amstel is nice
<MartijnVdS> amstel is canal water
<map> i think utretch fc sold amstel
<map> 99% of places were Heineken
<map> in Amsterdam that i saw
 * MartijnVdS has Chilean cabernet blanc
<map> grolsch is ok
<map> we had grolsch in a small pub in Utretcht
<MartijnVdS> map: most tourist places are. You should go to Utrecht, lots of cafes have my brothers' beer (vandestreek-bier.nl)
<map> 'err how should i say cycling is ok you wont get rapd' lol loved it when the girl said that
<map> *raped
<MartijnVdS> sauvignon blanc*
<MartijnVdS> map: student towns... ;)
<map> i went to a couiple dutch mostly places
<map> but cant remember the names or where
<MartijnVdS> 8-)
#ubuntu-uk 2014-03-09
<map> ARTGH
<penguin42> pirate with cattagh?
<map> ffff
<map> anyoen sawake?
<map> PLR
<map> qplr
<map> ease
<map> pleasr#
 * MartijnVdS gives map a new keyboard
<bashrc_> http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/mar/08/programming-saved-me-from-bullying
<map> hey
<map> i think i lost my phone:(
<map> can someone ring it see if t rings or goes to voicemail
<bashrc_> no
<MooDoo> hello all
<bashrc_> hello
<MartijnVdS> hello!
<bashrc> don't know how the underscore got added
<MooDoo> netsplit?
<marxjohn1on> aquarius: hey saw your ping from yesterday
<aquarius> marxjohn1on, heya
<aquarius> I have now set up btsync
<aquarius> seems good with one notable exception: the iOS app, when asked to fetch a file, sometimes fetches *loads* of files :(
<aquarius> I don't know whether this is a bug or what
<marxjohn1on> aquarius: weird, no experience with iOS so cant comment I'm afraid
<aquarius> yeah
<aquarius> but I like it
<aquarius> I especially like your indicator, which is very good indeed and you shall go to heaven when you die because of it.
<marxjohn1on> Why thank you
<directhex> aquarius, small files?
<aquarius> directhex, yeah. I suspect this is the bittorrent thing of "we download a whole block"
<aquarius> but it's really annoying on a phone when I want one single 15k PDF and it inhales a gig of stuff.
<aquarius> and I don't know whether this is just built in to the way it works and can't be fixed, or whether I can avoid it.
<aquarius> marxjohn1on, do you know whether that's a function of the btsync protocol?
<MartijnVdS> aquarius: Where do I send bug reports for Riddling?
<marxjohn1on> aquarius: I dont know tbh, the protocol's a bit of a mystery. My understanding was it made 1 torrent per file, but that might not apply with really small files
<aquarius> MartijnVdS, here's fine
<aquarius> marxjohn1on, hm. maybe I'll file a bug about it then
<aquarius> cheers
<MartijnVdS> aquarius: clue 27 is wider than my screen and doesn't wrap
<aquarius> MartijnVdS, is that the long number clue?
<MartijnVdS> yeah
<aquarius> dammit.
<aquarius> it's deliberately small text precisely to avoid that :(
<MartijnVdS> aquarius: I think it'd work if rotating the device worked
<aquarius> rotating does not work exactly because it sods up the layout ;)
<aquarius> hrm.
<aquarius> MartijnVdS, you're on android? or ubuntu?
<MartijnVdS> aquarius: android on a nexus 5
<aquarius> MartijnVdS, fancy doing a bit of testing?
<aquarius> MartijnVdS, also, do you get a problem when bringing up the previous-answers screen?
<aquarius> I've had reports of that on n5, but I can't replicate it.
<MartijnVdS> aquarius: no problem (btw, the whole screen can scroll with the long clue, though there are no scroll bars)
<MartijnVdS> aquarius: The screen comes up fine, but the answers overlap the clue numbers by a few pixels
<aquarius> hrm
<MartijnVdS> and hitting "Back" closes the app (main screen) instead of going back to the current clue
<aquarius> what?
<aquarius> god almighty
<aquarius> how is it that none of this stuff happens on my n4??
 * aquarius looks annoyed
<aquarius> ok
<aquarius> let me rig up a testable version
<aquarius> and we can try and nail down some of these issues, if you're happy to help
<MartijnVdS> aquarius: probably because of the 1080p-on-its-side screen?
<MartijnVdS> aquarius: sure -- I won't be available this afternoon though, will have to test later
<aquarius> I see what you mean about the screen scrolling, though
<MartijnVdS> aquarius: also, on the "game" screen, the menu button isn't disabled (so the "..." 3 vertical dots show up on the right side of the back/home/taskmanager icon bar)
<MartijnVdS> "soft buttons" I think they're called?
<aquarius> ya. good catch
<aquarius> don't know how to turn that off ;)
<MartijnVdS> aquarius: I used to know it. Let me find it again :)
<aquarius> in phonegap build, I mean. NOt in actual proper java ;)
<MartijnVdS> aquarius: Sure, but you can probably grep around/map things, right? :)
<MartijnVdS> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/9206530/how-to-disable-hide-three-dot-indicatoroption-menu-indicator-on-ics-handsets
<aquarius> hopefully...!
<Nafallo> ics... :-P
<MartijnVdS> Nafallo: ICS and up
<Nafallo> yeah, I reckoned. still found it funny :-)
<Nafallo> "this mistake you made years ago... it's still happening!" :-P
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<aquarius> http://community.phonegap.com/nitobi/topics/remove_the_android_menu_button seems useful here ;)
<MooDoo> AlanBell: sorry for interfering with that irc email :)
<AlanBell> MooDoo: that is fine
<AlanBell> wasn't an interference at all
<MooDoo> AlanBell: ta, just read it and throught woah! lol
<MooDoo> am I making it obvious I want on the IRCC in a few years ;) lol well I have to have my goals :p
<AlanBell> :)
 * aquarius is not sure how to fix MartijnVdS's number-is-too-long problem :(
<aquarius> I don't want to add hyphens because then people think that the answers needs hyphens in it too.
 * aquarius grumbles
<aquarius> maybe it can be a point size smaller still
<MooDoo> aquarius: I hate hate hate your game, I want my life back :p [ps it's really brill]
<aquarius> MooDoo, I'm glad you like it :)
<MooDoo> :)
<aquarius> MartijnVdS, so, are you around to test things now?
<aquarius> will take that as a no :)
<aquarius> anybody else with Android and having problems with Riddling and fancy testing things for me? :)
<popey> "problems"?
<aquarius> have had a couple of people reporting the menu not working right
<aquarius> which I can't replicate
<popey> what menu?
<popey> i see 3 dots but when i press it, i see no menu
<aquarius> the one with your previous answers in -- top left
<popey> didnt see that
<aquarius> not the android three-dots menu (which will be disabled in the next version :))
<brobostigon> IDS definatly looks uncomfortable in his seat while being interviwed by andrew neil.
<bashrc> I think the Android menu is context sensitive.  What you get, or whether you get it, depends on what screen is active.
<bashrc> IDS is a nasty piece of work.  If I met him I might spit on him, but probably I'd consider him to be not even worth that.
<brobostigon> i totally agree bashrc
<brobostigon> he is an A*** N*****
<ikonia> a what ?
<brobostigon> i shouldnt fully flesh out the words, they RE NOT FAMILY FRIENDLY.
<brobostigon> sorry for the tab
<brobostigon> bashrc: this is why, i will publicise as much as i can. how much he effects my fellow aspies in so many bad ways.
<ikonia> who is IDS ? some sort of interface designer ?
<brobostigon> ian duncun smith, the secretery of state of the department for work and pensions.
<ikonia> ahh
<ikonia> with reference to android above, I thought it was an interface gripe and IDS was his "nick"
<brobostigon> ah.
<SuperEngineer> 'tis a wonderful day - me hopes you are out enjoying it rather at the pooter screen!  me... I am at the pooter screen but I will be out & about all next [wondewrful weather] week ;)
 * penguin42 is here
<SuperEngineer> hi penguin42
<daftykins> http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2014/03/2400-introduction-to-linux-course-will-be-free-and-online-this-summer/
<daftykins> this is interesting
<SuperEngineer> hi daft
<daftykins> hallo sir o/
<SuperEngineer> hi daftykins
<daftykins> i went out cycling in the sun all yesterday :) but i am also planning on getting out again now
<daftykins> but keep getting distracted instead of loading up my phone with music
 * penguin42 did go for a long walk yesterday
<daftykins> i've got shorts and t-shirt on :O
<daftykins> \o/
<SuperEngineer> currently enjoying new [semi home built] pooter - & keep sticking my head of the window... that's sort of healthy
<SuperEngineer> [ish]
<shauno> hm, the online gizmo says there's a bus in 32 minutes, and in 33 minutes.  being sunday, i'm tempted to believe it :|
<SuperEngineer> shauno: run! you've only got 31 mins left
 * penguin42 doesn't think we have any online stuff to predict our busses - tarrot cards are more accurate
 * SuperEngineer thinks of names for tarot cards... "the head of the devil".. that could be the bus driver
<daftykins> SuperEngineer: hehehe, nice. was it a substantial upgrade?
<shauno> we got a whole new system a year or two ago.  it's about as entertaining as gambling on the weather forecast, but over shorter timeframes
<SuperEngineer> "the screaming idiots"... the school bus
<SuperEngineer> daftykins: ooo yes - bought a [cheap] base unit from zoostorm, ripped out the power supply, put in my [now beloved] BeQuiet! 400W power supply
<SuperEngineer> ...doubled memory to 8G
<SuperEngineer> ...with the added GTX650 GPU [with 2G of video EAM... me quite pleased with "budget result ;)
<SuperEngineer> ...was determined to keep within a budget whilst having a pooter that could be fired up if needed before build complete
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: Yeh ripping out the PSU on the zoostorm is a good move
<SuperEngineer> ...so now a 8+2 gig RAM, 2X HDD, 2 x DVD drive, 2 monitors [plus hdmi to TV screen].. & 1TB external drive for backups
<daftykins> :)
<daftykins> i have 84.8GB free on my 5TB array, haha
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: https://plus.google.com/photos/118251468822440261663/albums/posts/5933832421595458530?pid=5933832421595458530&oid=118251468822440261663
<daftykins> d'aww
<daftykins> >_<
<shauno> I brought a server to its knees by running out of disk yesterday :(
<SuperEngineer> penguin42: agreed... but needed to keep in budget for now... dentist [tooth capping], gas bill, BUPA excess all due next month ;)
<daftykins> shauno: oops! :)
<shauno> nothing important, just my own sandbox to play in.  but I couldn't figure out why TV shows were arriving as 20kb files
<SuperEngineer> penguin42: for when wallet returns to normal... what cpu upgrade is suggested... not done any research yey
<shauno> so now my super-handy minecraft backup script, has a super-handy 'delete month-old files' bit.  problem solved
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: I've never done CPU upgrades
<shauno> usually by time the cpu wants an upgrade, there's too many other dependencies to go with it
<daftykins> ^agreed, plus the number of socket changes these days
<daftykins> <intel> right, this gen we're going to take away 5 pins!
<penguin42> yeh, and the price doesn't come down for the higher end cpus in the old sockets
<shauno> right.  intel redefine 'a square peg' every 9 months
<daftykins> :D
<SuperEngineer> penguin42: just seen your pic of blown capicitor - *very* glad I got a different PSU [ 1 of the things I count as essential for a stable pooter]
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: Yeh; which CPU have you got?
<SuperEngineer> I went fotr Germasny's favourite... the BeQuiet! range.  In my case their 400W versiomn... & wow!
<daftykins> i've been buying Corsair PSUs for a few years now, lifetime warranty and not had one fail
<SuperEngineer> *Germany's
<SuperEngineer> [with *3* fans running in new pooter it is quieter than my ol' Dell
<penguin42> my main machine only has two; one big PSU fan, and I replaced the Intel standard CPU fan by a big quiet one
<SuperEngineer> the Bequiet!, the GTX650 both come with supoer good, super quiet fan designs
<SuperEngineer> penguin42: big & quiet =good!  ;)
<directhex> the 750ti is the new budget darling
<directhex> less power consumption than the 650, for far more performance
 * SuperEngineer creates memo to ZooStorm/MSI - oy! you! next time.. supply a none Windows only CD!!!!  ;)
<SuperEngineer> ...and please tell me how to monitor CPU temp from within linux!
<SuperEngineer> [& before someone suggests it... both lm-sensors & psensors installed - but to no avail]
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: make sure the coretemp module is loaded
<SuperEngineer> penguin42:
<SuperEngineer> ?
<SuperEngineer> I thought it was.. - how does one check
<SuperEngineer> ?
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: lsmod |grep coretemp
<penguin42> it's a pity that the number of cores in desktop CPUs has stopped going up :-(
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: ls -l /sys/class/hwmon   does it show one of them as something like    lrwxrwxrwx. 1 root root 0 Mar  9 13:50 hwmon1 -> ../../devices/platform/coretemp.0/hwmon/hwmon1
<penguin42> I mean where is the desktop equivalent of http://ark.intel.com/products/75258/Intel-Xeon-Processor-E7-8890-v2-37_5M-Cache-2_80-GHz  :-)
<penguin42> (preferably with one less 0 on the price)
<SuperEngineer> penguin42:  ls -l /sys/class/hwmon
<SuperEngineer> total 0
<SuperEngineer> lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 0 Mar  9 13:47 hwmon0 -> ../../devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:18.3/hwmon/hwmon0
<SuperEngineer> hurumph!
<penguin42> ok, so coretemp isn't doing anything for you - did you load coretemp?
<SuperEngineer> [thought I did} :(
<daftykins> penguin42: i'd imagine quality of core is more important than count :D
<daftykins> you can always go AMD? :)
<penguin42> daftykins: Except that the intel cores are about the best you can get - so I just want more of those
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> could get a pricey upcoming Haswell-E? if they make one...
<penguin42> daftykins: But all the haswell's so far have been 4 core - YAWN
<daftykins> or just the Ivy-E
<daftykins> yeah the -E variants are the triple channel clipped Xeons though
<penguin42> daftykins: Thing is there's an argument that the only thing I use more CPU for is for building, and then another machine with a reasonable quad core, sitting there off most of the time is better value than buying the -E's
<SuperEngineer> gonna shuitdown/restart to allow full remove of pesor/lm-sensors & re-install... see y'all soon [I hope]
<daftykins> penguin42: ah-har
<penguin42> daftykins: I've not upgraded my main desktop in ~4 years because there's no major gain - I don't think I could get twice the speed
<daftykins> same feeling here, i'm on a 2007/8 intel core 2 quad 2.4GHz (Q6600)
<penguin42> daftykins: i7-860 here
<daftykins> ah-har
<daftykins> yeah these kinds of systems coupled with SSDs feel as good as anything up to date :)
<penguin42> daftykins: Yeh, I bought it about 4 years ago with 8GB RAM, only thing I've done is add an SSD, I could probably upgrade the GPU from an AMD HD4xxx to AMD HD6xxx (fanless)
<daftykins> AMD :(
<penguin42> why?
<daftykins> they seem quite awkward in any OS land in driver terms
<penguin42> daftykins: Using the open driver
<daftykins> yarr
<daftykins> 4xxx is legacy now though isn't it?
<daftykins> so probably better than proprietary :D
<penguin42> yeh probably, I don't do much GL stuff anyway, although I wouldn't mind trying OpenCL at some time, but it's been on my list of things to try for years
<daftykins> :D
<SuperEngineer> hmm... just fully removed pensor/lm-sensor but still not reporting cpu temp [unless it's running at 0 degrees C] -sooo tempted to overclock this pooter... but with no cpu monitor... again ' hmmmm :1
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: Did you get coretemp loaded - and does the /sys/class/hwmon appear for it?
<SuperEngineer> I know cpu reports as I can get temp from BIOS, but that's not exactly a running temp :(
<SuperEngineer> penguin
<SuperEngineer> penguin42: no! - darn thing [sensors-detect] doesn't seem to provide the chance]
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: what kind of CPU do you have?
<SuperEngineer> AMD 3.3 dual core
<penguin42> ooohhhh - AMD
<SuperEngineer> yup
<penguin42> not fought an AMD for a long time
<SuperEngineer> AMD-5300 APU dual core to be exact - & I have never used AMD before -DARN!#
<SuperEngineer> [perhaps it needs to meet my mallet ;)(
<penguin42> coretemp is Intel only
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: How about the k10temp module?
<SuperEngineer> yup... came to that conclusion myself
<MooDoo> wasaaaaaaaaaaaaaaap
<SuperEngineer> penguin42: hmmm...  what's that? not heard of it
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: looking at the kernel source it's AMD K10+ core temperature monitor
<SuperEngineer> hmmmm
<penguin42> MODULE_DESCRIPTION("AMD Family 10h+ CPU core temperature monitor");
<SuperEngineer> wow - that *is* a full description - ta
<penguin42> hmm my office is getting warm, I might have to open the window or start making sorbet
<MooDoo> penguin42: both sound good
<SuperEngineer> penguin42: there's always the option of a nice cooooooool Pims
<MooDoo> is it pims'oclock?
<SuperEngineer> yup! [it's always ppims o'clock]  ;)
<SuperEngineer> even more so on sunny days - almost as if it were mandatory in fact
<SuperEngineer> darn... all the pages on google want me to download the code and compile into kernel - that's something I really don't want to do!
<SuperEngineer> ...perhaps I'll just overclock this thing & see how long before it fries!  ;)
<MooDoo> SuperEngineer: make sure you have eggs handy ;)
<SuperEngineer> [amd say normal =3.4, overclock = 3.6 ....  bios however is quite happy to take it to 4.1 !!  no ill effects so far [but no serious ganming attempted with it over clocked]
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: trusty certainly has the k10temp module
 * SuperEngineer gets eggs from box & puts them on pooter
<MooDoo> SuperEngineer: sunny side up for me please :D
<penguin42> make -j scrambled
<SuperEngineer> penguin42: how to activate?
<SuperEngineer> MooDoo: penguin42 - sunny side up scrambled on their way ;)
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: modprobe k10temp ?
<SuperEngineer> penguin42: in which file? [pretty please]
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: Just try it from a commandline
<SuperEngineer> have done modprobe before - but so long along I can't remember why it was needed or where added
<MooDoo> AlanBell: are you in #ubuntu?
<SuperEngineer> hokeys - will do
<MooDoo> AlanBell: ah ignore that :)
<SuperEngineer> hokeys - will do
<MooDoo> DJones: had fun in ubuntu ;)
<penguin42> http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/a42ab8b2-9d75-11e3-a599-00144feab7de.html#axzz2uzCBPTpT   seems a great way to get beuracritic issues
<SuperEngineer> hmm - no errors - in fact no result shown at al in terminal... let's try a restart and see......
<SuperEngineer> bbs
<penguin42> oh
<penguin42> reboot won't help
<MooDoo> DJones: you around again un #ubuntu?
<DJones> Got them
<MooDoo> yay :)
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: You didn't want to reboot
<SuperEngineer> wow - what a surprise! [sarcasm *is* the highest form of wit]... absolutely no difference whatsoever :(
<SuperEngineer> penguin42: why not reboot
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: modprobe doesn't get stored
<SuperEngineer> ahhh!
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: so try the modprobe    and see if /sys/class/hwmod gains a new entry or if anything is added to syslog
<SuperEngineer> that's wht I stuffed into a file last time - for a 3G dongle I think
<penguin42> right, but no need here - first try the modprobe to see if it appears in /sys/class/hwmod
<SuperEngineer> will do
<SuperEngineer> darn .. what was the modprobe command again?? pretty, pretty please
<penguin42> modprobe k10temp
<SuperEngineer> ta
<SuperEngineer> oooH -there *is no* hwmod under /sys/class - nearest is hwmon
<penguin42> yeh it's hwmon
<penguin42> hardware monitor as in
<SuperEngineer> yuk! what the heck am I looking for?  [got a lot of "for 'recursive, see recursive' links and some files]... no idea what I should be looking for
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: What's in /sys/class/hwmon now?
<SuperEngineer> yup
<penguin42> hey? I asked what
<SuperEngineer> loads
<SuperEngineer> pastebin coming up
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: OK, also do   cat /sys/class/hwmon/hwmon*/name
<penguin42> hmm myabe not
<MooDoo> DJones: ok i'm going to try for ops in #ubuntu-offtopic, seems the most quiet at the moment lol
 * SuperEngineer taps fingers waiting for darn imagebin to finish.... tap - tap - tap
<DJones> MooDoo: s/quiet/insane/
<SuperEngineer> penguin42: http://imagebin.org/298092
<MooDoo> DJones: well need to get my foot in the door, baptism of fire then ;)
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: Please use ls -l /sys/class/hwmon
<SuperEngineer> with pleasure! 'coz that was a pain in the backside ;)
<penguin42> (Ever been in a teleconference where someone shares a terminal over vnc to another machine to share it via one of these web conference schemes - positively the most inefficient way to share text)
<SuperEngineer> penguin42: http://paste.ubuntu.com/7062563/
 * SuperEngineer gets eggs ready - coz that to me seems useless  ;)
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: Hmm you had that before so it probably didn't get helped by k10temp
<SuperEngineer> cool
<SuperEngineer> [WHOOPS! - wrong word right now :D  ]
<SuperEngineer> penguin42: I have tried, you have tied doubly so... I thank you massively for help  - I think it's a case of "have AMD, won't travel"  ;)
<SuperEngineer> *tried
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: Yeh, I'd see if the k10temp guys or similar have anything new for apus - but I've never played with them
 * SuperEngineer gets eggs ready
<SuperEngineer> :D
<SuperEngineer> ...just coz AMD says max overclock from 3.4 is to 3.6 [boring!]...
<SuperEngineer>  - why shouldn't I give the m/board free reign & let it do the 4.1 it wants to ;)
 * SuperEngineer checks chicken supply
<penguin42> may want a bit of salt
<SuperEngineer> :D
<penguin42> nice thing with my work laptop (i7) is that it's nice and quiet except during a build - you know when the build has finished
<shauno> I keep meaning to find wheels for mine, and see if the fans are capable of propulsion
<SuperEngineer> I will get a clue from GPU, HDD1 & HDD2 - plus seeing if CPU use starts soaring or gets erratic
<SuperEngineer> ...but will not use overclock if doing backups!
<SuperEngineer> ....so - eggs... chips & beans as well perhaps  ;
<SuperEngineer> goona reboot now - set to OC - wish me luck folks ;)
 * SuperEngineer smells frying          ;)
 * penguin42 doesn't OC
<rad> hey everyone, I have a question regarding setting up a serial console in ubuntu 12.04 and I was hoping someone could help me
<MooDoo> rad: the only thing I know about seial consoles is here - https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SerialConsoleHowto
<rad> this is where I have having difficulties, following this link I created the entry in  /etc/event.d/ttyS0, as directed including the line: exec /sbin/getty 110 ttyS0
 * SuperEngineer now running 3.6 APU [but using an nâVidia to do the video bit, not the APU - lets hope these 3 fans do their magic ;)
<rad> sorry I meant : /etc/init/ttyS0.conf - when I create the file as directed including the line: exec /sbin/getty -L 110 ttyS0 vt102 and then proceed to issue the command "sudo start ttyS0" I recieve the login prompt on the remote terminal and everything is fine
<MooDoo> rad: http://www.debuntu.org/how-to-set-up-a-serial-console-on-ubuntu/
<MooDoo> I don't know about it tobe honest
<rad> The issue is I have a terminal that requires 2 stop bits and I do not know how to configure getty for two stop bits
<rad> *another terminal
<SuperEngineer> APU now running at 4.1
 * SuperEngineer sniggers... temporarily
<SuperEngineer> [eggs at the ready
<SuperEngineer> who wants beans with theirs?
<penguin42> rad: wth did you find that terminal - are you sure?
 * penguin42 hasn't come across anything that needs anything other than 8n1 for decades
<rad> yes it is an ASR-33 teletypewritter from the 1960's 1970s
<rad> i have three of them, two of them are not that picky are are ok with 1 stop bit however the third requires 2 data bits. the login is grabbled and once I login correctly and set it to two stop bits (stty cstob) everything is fine
<rad> however it would be nice to have the login prompt appear correctly
<penguin42> oh wow
<penguin42> rad: You might be better with a different getty - I can't see anything on the agetty to set that
<rad> i was checking agetty and mgetty earlier however i could not find anything to set 2 stop bits....
<penguin42> rad: Yeh I mean that's odd
<SuperEngineer> sda = 49c, sdb = 50c, GPP=38c ... no difference so far
<SuperEngineer> anyone fancy suggesting a test for stabilty?
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: Google's stressapptest - it's mean
<SuperEngineer> e.g. bechmarking - would that streetch the APU enough me wonders?
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: And add some GL
<SuperEngineer> penguin42: oooh - that's a good choice - let's do it
<penguin42> rad: I can't see the options in the kernel's serial console support either
<rad> I do have a baud rate converter which can be placed on the serial line itself and configure one port to be 2 stop bits however it would be nice to do that in software
<penguin42> rad: Personally I'd get the agetty source and tweek it
<rad> ok
<penguin42> rad: Where the heck did you find those?
<rad> on my solaris box in the /etc/ttydefs file I am able to set it for two stop bits:
<rad> conttymy:110 hupcl evenp cstopb lcase icanon iexten ofill cr2:110 hupcl evenp cstopb lcase icanon iexten ofill cr2::
<rad> but I guess the equivilant in ubuntu might not be there
<penguin42> rad: Yeh I can't see it in agetty or the kernel's console docs
<rad> I picked them up accross southern ontario (Canada) and brought them over to Vermont and had them restored
<penguin42> very nice
<penguin42> rad: I can't immediately see it in ngetty's docs either
<rad> I did try sudo stty -F /dev/ttyS0 cstopb evenp 110 however it did not have the desired effect
<penguin42> rad: mgetty looks like it might be able to set arbitrary settings
<penguin42> rad: http://unixhelp.ed.ac.uk/CGI/man-cgi?mgettydefs+4
<rad> thank you! let me take a look
<penguin42> rad: I expect a video of you doing a login on one :-)
<rad> yes I am actually making a video..  i'll be posting it on youtube sometime in the near future
<penguin42> rad: Do they do lower case?
<rad> no only upper case. luckly Solaris implements lcase  icanon iexten correctly. letters typing in upper case are translated in lower case and if I want to specify an upper case it can be escaped
<penguin42> yeh, I don't know if I've ever seen that on Linux
<rad> unfortunately it appears this feature is not available in Ubuntu after searching online and trying myself, uppercase to lower case translation seems to work however escaping to indicate an uppercase character did not
<rad> I also tried FreeBSD with no luck, however Solaris worked great
<penguin42> rad: My 1st Unix usage was on an HP MIni in about '89 at college and some of the terminals were truly ancient and were upper case only, and we had a DEC writer that was the only printing terminal I'd ever used
<rad> oh wow. I've heard about the DEC writer but never used one. that must have been fun!
 * penguin42 pointed the admin to someone selling 2nd hand vt100's for about #10/each and we made a great improvement to the lab :-)
<rad> what speed did the Dec writer run at? 110 baud? 300 baud?
<penguin42> I can't remember - I'm thinking 300, it was dot matrix
<rad> neat
<daftykins> should you be bored enough to view yet MORE scenes of the island of Guernsey, have at ye...
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/lq22c6xlcnpozk8/VID_20140309_152739.mp4
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/nvweiuxzwicrlq1/IMG_20140309_155041.jpg
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/3r0rl5pc3lwngkn/IMG_20140309_155101.jpg
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/ierfg510broh4hr/IMG_20140309_154809.jpg
<penguin42> daftykins: Have you used things like panoramio - you can upload pictures so they appear on google maps
<daftykins> i haven't no
<daftykins> i'd imagine anyone with a decent camera would be much more justified than my little phone snaps though :)
<daftykins> here's the far more interesting ones
<daftykins> beware of wind noise on this one: https://www.dropbox.com/s/evjny4kkqpdolce/VID_20140309_155724.mp4
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/hwspus8s24je2b2/IMG_20140309_155808.jpg
<daftykins> plus a still of that same spot
<penguin42> daftykins: It seems pretty random; I only use a cheap camera, some of my pictures get a handful of views a week
<penguin42> daftykins: and you can see how they've been found - it shows search stats
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> neat
<rad> didn't have much luck with mgetty. in the end I setup getty to run an autologin for a guest account. once automatically logged in, I will be able to telnet to my solaris machine and login as needed
<ali1234> rad: hmm
<penguin42> rad: I wonder about instead of telnet'ing to the solaris machine, how about just running agetty at that point?
<rad> I do need to eventually access the Solaris machine some how (located in another room). The Ubuntu machine was a way to interface the teletype with the remote solaris box
<daftykins> http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2014/03/2400-introduction-to-linux-course-will-be-free-and-online-this-summer/
<daftykins> i've signed up for this for fun, might be basic- but ho-hum :)
<rad> lunch time. take care everyone!
<daftykins> ta-ra!
<rad> thank you penguin42 for your help!
<penguin42> rad: Hey no problem - nice project
<shauno> if you're only using this as a 'jump box' to serial to the solaris box, you might want to look at ser2net, which is purrfect for such things
<shauno> (exposes a serial port straight to a network port, so you just telnet to that port)
<MooDoo> I love irc :)
<penguin42> That's nice
<MooDoo> lol just been lurking in ubuntu-irc, very enlightening
<daftykins> MooDoo: what's that channel for?
<MooDoo> irc council
<MooDoo> daftykins: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/IrcTeam?action=show&redirect=IrcTeam
<penguin42> anything particularly contentious?
<MooDoo> daftykins: basically the council that trys to keep ubuntu channels a nice place to visit
<diddledan> I'm guessing they don't much like me? :-p
<MooDoo> penguin42: no not really just interesting to see behind the scenes
<MooDoo> diddledan: why so?
<daftykins> MooDoo: ah, perhaps they need a reminder about -offtopic
<daftykins> ;)
<diddledan> MooDoo: family friendly deficiency? :-D
<penguin42> MooDoo: You'd think they'd plant some new borders and sweep the topics a bit more
<MooDoo> :)
<diddledan> +1 on the new foliage
 * zenpho waves hi
<daftykins> hey
<zenpho> how goes it with you?
<zenpho> I had no idea there was an ubuntu lug - but now I think about it I feel silly saying so - of course there would be - nice to have found you guys tho
<daftykins> :D as in an online LUG? i guess it sort of is :)
<daftykins> good here ty, nice sunny weekend. and you?
<zenpho> yep, it was lovely here - wall to wall sunshine ;o)
<zenpho> i didn't go outside much this weekend
<zenpho> slightly embarrased to say I was mostly indoors doing hackerish things with scanners and printers
<zenpho> heh
<ali1234> yeah... this time last year we were all snowed in weren't we?
<penguin42> it's been amazingly warm
<zenpho> mm... I remember - crazy!
<zenpho> I hope it's not going to be a very hot summer this year... just a nice sunny one, not too sticky.
<zenpho> heh look at us, typical UK conversation with strangers "the weather the weather the weather" ;o)
<zenpho> any of you guys affected by yonder flooding?
<ali1234> no
<ali1234> last year the council put rain-gardens in our road though
<ali1234> they are supposed to prevent flooding
<ali1234> but it doesn't flood here
<penguin42> rain-gardens?
<zenpho> rain gardens? i've never heard the term
<ali1234> you know... grass verges?
<zenpho> ahaaa
<ali1234> they dug those up and replaced them with essentially a trench 1 foot deep, with longer grass and plants
<zenpho> howdy znurgl
<zenpho> I wasn't flooded either - pretty high up where I am
<zenpho> flood gardens seem like an interesting technique to aid drainage tho
<zenpho> so do any of you guys meet? like a lug in real life?
<ali1234> amusingly, people threw half eaten takeaways in it
<ali1234> and we got tomota and sweetcorn plants growing
<ali1234> *tomato
<zenpho> hehe! typical
<penguin42> isn't sweetcorn normally cooked?
<ali1234> yeah
<zenpho> I read your "1 foot deep" wrong - was about to say "wouldn't drunks stumble in and get stuck?"
<ali1234> well, frankyl, yes
<penguin42> not a bad idea, drunk trap
<zenpho> "10 foot deep" - a little more dangerous!
<ali1234> you wouldn't get stuck but you could do yourself a nasty injury
<zenpho> I've only ever grown tomato plants in a greenhouse
<zenpho> interesting that they'll happily kinda grow outdoors with little shelter
<ali1234> it didn't grow any tomatos
<zenpho> talking of plants growing in unusual places - reminds me of "guerilla gardening" - planting in the earth around road-side trees in urban areas
<zenpho> i remember a friend telling me about people who put in flowers and climbers where none were meant
<zenpho> wb oly
<zenpho> say, i wonder could any of you guys help me with a problem with my onboard soundcard in ubuntu here? no problem if you'd rather not
<ali1234> what is the problem?
<MooDoo> zenpho: just ask your question if any one is around who knows they'll answer it :D
<zenpho> sound was hapily working for a while, but then only silence recently, even after reboots. Alsa identifies the chip as a "SigmaTel STAC9200"
<zenpho> hi fwereade
<ali1234> open alsamixer from terminal
<ali1234> check all the outputs are not muted
<ali1234> there are two catches you also need to be aware of:
<ali1234> sometimes speaker and headphone outputs are reversed
<zenpho> currently i'm using an external usb thing to listen, lemme unplug that first
<ali1234> and there is sometimes a switch called "independent h/p" - try turning it on
<zenpho> okidoke, i'll try these things and report back - hold up - thanks ali
<zenpho> well now I'm confused. even without me messing in alsamixer - sound is back and working - i just unplugged the usb sound"card" and things came over the internal speakers again
<ali1234> sometimes the hardware can act funny like this
<zenpho> I wonder what happened to make it stop working for so long? it's you guys magical influence!
<ali1234> there is actually a bug in 13.10 when when you add/remove sound cards it unmutes all of them
<ali1234> fixed in 14.04 though
<ali1234> alsamixer is the first thing to check when things go wrong
<ali1234> it is lower level than the pulseaudio stuff on the panel
<zenpho> good tips
<ali1234> i bet the side effects of that bug fixed it for you though
<zenpho> yes maybe.... perhaps I should just plug and unplug this external after booting (if there's a problem again of course)
<zenpho> thank you very much for tips and guidance ali
<zenpho> hold on, switching from webchat to xchat here
<zenpho_> hi me
<zenpho> hi
<zenpho> I should disappear (or at least start lurking) pretty soon - got an early start tomorrow
<zenpho> :o( we'll miss you rad and phil
 * zenpho goes afk for a bit
<zenpho> g'night all
<zenpho> i'll probably be back tomorrow
<MooDoo> well LjL isn't happy at all
<popey> Êâ¿à² 
<daftykins> MooDoo: i know him from another channel, that's pretty much permanent
<MooDoo> daftykins: sigh
<MooDoo> daftykins: mountain out of a molehill
<daftykins> oh? :(
<daftykins> MooDoo: is he kicking up a fuss?
#ubuntu-uk 2015-03-02
<knightwise> morning peeps
<mapp> morning knightwise
<SuperMatt> morning all
<mapps> morning SuperMatt
<MooDoo> morning all
<mapps> mornin MonsterKiller
<mapps> MooDoo
<mapps> sup mate
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<MooDoo> it's monday :(
<mapps> im going to Ukraine in July lads
<mapps> Malaga -> Moscow -> Kiev :D
<MooDoo> nice :D
<mapps> yea
<MooDoo> holiday or work?
<mapps> holiday
<mapps> friend off betfair forum lives there
<MooDoo> brill :)
<mapps> hopefully meet up with him
<mapps> says on wiki the average wage is $8k usd - so i plan to go to a club buy everyone a drink and girls shoould fall in love;p
<MooDoo> pmsl good luck
<mapps> im serious lol
<mapps> if average wage is $8k
<mapps> il go in a bar buy a shed load of drinks
<mapps> girls be like 'woah hes mad rich'
<mapps> marry a hot ukranian:P
<MooDoo> or get mugged for being a cocky git
<mapps> i should be ok i hope
<mapps> ive managed in the uk:P
<mapps> lived in Portsmouth for 4 years.lived in Elepehant and castle..lived in Brixton
<mapps> as long as you're ok there's nevera problem
<mapps> and it's not cocky MooDoo i just want a nice ukranian girl lol
<SuperMatt> how's the new XFCE?
<davmor2> Morning all
<bashrc> morning
<mapps> morning
<MooDoo> morning davmor2
<mapps> 15c here
<mapps> :D
<knightwise> morning
<Laney> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJl5YuLWROc
<Laney> MORNING
<mapps> almost sleep time for me
<bashrc> night shift?
<mapps> as usual
<mapps> but i was off last night
<mapps> went into spain:)
<Resupine> hello plz can you help me
<popey> !ask
<lubotu3> Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line and in the channel, so that others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-) See also !patience
<Resupine> is there anywhere i can paste it pls
<popey> paste.ubuntu.com
<Resupine> thanks
<Resupine> is there anywhere i can paste the image please
<Resupine> i forgot the site
<popey> imgur.com
<Resupine> thanks popey thats the one
<Resupine> doesnt appear to be workin
<foobarry> imgur.com is up
<Resupine> it keeps failing
<SuperMatt> sounds like you might have a networking problem
<mapps> hm
<Resupine> possibly
<Resupine> i got the usual problem of not enough disk space
<mapps> its only 16c :( i feel cold
<Resupine> empty your trush and stuff
<SuperMatt> not enough disk space for what?
<Resupine> for the software updater
<SuperMatt> then you need to delete files
<SuperMatt> you may have some in your trash
<Resupine> it actually worked this time
<Resupine> http://imgur.com/n2aHPcI
<Resupine> thanks
<popey> Resupine: sudo apt-get autoremove
<popey> should clean out some old kernels
<Resupine> i think i tried but ill try it again
<Resupine> thanks
<foobarry> doesn't the unity-tweak package help clear out kernel pacakges in a noobish way?
<Resupine> im not sure how to do it i think i tried
<popey> foobarry: no
<mapps> what can i do to avoid roaming charges? beyond dont do it- when i go from gib -> spain they charge me
<popey> turn it off on your phone
<mapps> nothing i can do i dont think
<mapps> pah
<mapps> it's the same place its so stupid
<Resupine> i still get the same message
<mapps> my phone connects to orange es some days
<SuperMatt> what size is your /boot partition?
<Resupine> how can i check thanks
<SuperMatt> df -h /boot
<Resupine> cheers
<Resupine> its 236mb
<Resupine> but ive used 210
<SuperMatt> ah, a nice sticky little situation
<SuperMatt> my question would be who set the size so small?
<popey> the installer
<Resupine> i dont know how it happened
<popey> it defaults too small
<Resupine> oh ok
<SuperMatt> fun
<popey> it was discussed at length recently on ubuntu-devel
<Resupine> is there anyway to change that at all do you know
<Resupine> oh
<popey> you can, yes.
<popey> you can resize it, or just keep on top of it.
<Resupine> is it easy to do
<popey> is brain surgery easy?
<popey> for those that know how to do it :)
<Resupine> sounds difficult the
<Resupine> n
<popey> its not that hard, but there are risks
<Resupine> ha ha
<popey> http://askubuntu.com/questions/443673/gparted-resizing-boot-partition
<Resupine> ill take a  look
<Resupine> thanks for your help
<popey> np
<foobarry> my son's school has this thing called a focus week
<foobarry> where they ask one child per week for a few things they would like the class to study that week e.g. dinosaurs, etc
<foobarry> they asked my boy (who is 5). he said "i'd like to learn more about how to build stable buildings"
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Dr. Seuss Day! :-D
<foobarry> is it?
 * zmoylan-pi breaks out the green eggs and ham.  and calls 999 in advance...
<foobarry> remind me not to check reddit today
<czajkowski> aloha
<zmoylan-pi> czajkowski... you didn't watch the rugby... my twitter feed was strangely silent over the weekend :-)
<czajkowski> zmoylan-pi: I was in the car coming up from Dorset and I was getting tweeted so I could follow it
<czajkowski> :D
<czajkowski> I LOVED THE GAME!
<zmoylan-pi> wasn't the same without a twitter feed going bonkers... :-)
<czajkowski> lol
 * MooDoo doesn't want to think about the rugby
<zmoylan-pi> âª a nation once again... â« :-)
<davmor2> JamesTait: http://img.pandawhale.com/post-10623-Grumpy-Cat-in-a-Happy-Birthday-cehB.jpeg cat in a hat
<JamesTait> davmor2, where did you find that photo of me?
<davmor2> JamesTait: It was your birthday profile pic ;)
<lopta> I'm wondering whether to try Ubuntu 14.10 or 14.04.2
<foobarry> try = how long for?
<lopta> Probably a month or so.
<jpds> lopta: Try both?
<lopta> jpds: Hmmm... that's a possibility I hadn't considered.
<jpds> lopta: Spinning up a VM takes a few minutes.
<lopta> I'll try 14.10 first.
<lopta> jpds: True enough and that's what I do on my work laptop. I'll be running this test on bare metal though (an old desktop PC at the office)
<popey> I'd go for 14.04.2
<lopta> popey: I'll download that next then.
<lopta> (once this torrent's in).
<lopta> popey: Is that because it'll be around longer or because there's newer (less tested?) stuff in 14.10?
<popey> longer support
<lopta> popey: Thanks for the insight.
<foobarry> hence my question about "a month or so"
<lopta> Thinking about it, I should break out my laptop.
<lopta> ...think I'll let it thaw out a bit before I power it up though.
<popey> was it buried in snow?
<jpds> Maybe took it skiing?
<popey> one per foot?
<daftykins> LTS is where it's at
<daftykins> i have a Â£208 Lenovo 15" intel i3 laptop coming this week :O
<popey> like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yKP7jQknGjs
<daftykins> super cheap deal! free printer too O_O
<popey> (best video I have seen this week)
<foobarry> i have a video of me doing the same thing
<foobarry> on a snowboard
<popey> 3min54 is good
<popey> also 4min15
<jpds> popey: 3:54> what the hell.
<popey> yeah :)
<daftykins> heh some neat bits in that
<jpds> Ha, that poor person at 1:30.
<lopta> popey: I left it in the car overnight.
<lopta> It get's a bit chilly here.
<lopta> s/overnight/over the weekend/
<lopta> Let's plug the charger in, that'll warm it up a bit.
<daftykins> O_O
 * zmoylan-pi could always tell when a pc for repair coming in had been in a car over night this time of year.  metal to cold to touch for a few hours.
<jpds> popey: 4:40 is just obscene.
<foobarry> somebody put sl;eeping pills in my lunch
<foobarry> either that or its cos i'm 40 yrs old now
<lopta> foobarry: Welcome to your forties! ;-)
<daftykins> zmoylan-pi: that must add many hours to the job :/
<moreati> bigcalm: you got name checked by the register http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/03/02/ubuntu_15_04_flavours_vivid_vervet/
<zmoylan-pi> and so cold the hard drives couldn't spin up in time.  would take a few attempts to warm them up
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<bigcalm> moreati: heh, nice. Sometimes tempted to change my surname
<Myrtti> I've not yet had a day when I've not regretted doing it. The only bit I'm feeling bad about the wedding. I can only hope it gets easier once all the paperwork is finally done.
<MooDoo> how do all
<MooDoo> are we all changing names?
<foobarry> irc or irl names
<zmoylan-pi> can i still be me? :-)
<laurac> aloha :)
<MooDoo> lol just reading scroll back and not properly i might add lol
<popey> zoiks
<MooDoo> laurac: ??
<zmoylan-pi> gee willikers
<popey> s/laurac/lauraf/
<MooDoo> lauraf?
<zmoylan-pi> now the usage of my z key bill drop to 0... :-)
<zmoylan-pi> *will
<MooDoo> popey: ignore that, lol
<MooDoo> laurac: congratulations by the way :D
<Laney> C Z TAB noooooooooo
<laurac> lol
<laurac> nope not laura F yet
<laurac> but will so be changing my name when we do the deed :)
<MooDoo> won't be long :D
<laurac> exept on irc and on twitter as well everyone can do tab complete :)
<MooDoo> yay
<MooDoo> just as i've learnt to say it you'll be changing your surname lol
<daftykins> :o
<daftykins> MooDoo: hahaha :D
<MooDoo> :D
<davmor2> laurac: prod
<lopta> I might go across the road for a fancy coffee while this is installing.
 * zmoylan-pi misread that and wondered what a fancy toffee was like...
<zmoylan-pi> probably not a scots clan...
<bigcalm> laurac: I think Jon should change his name
<diddledan> ello
<diddledan> I'm not gonna get used to laurac's new nick :-p
<davmor2> laurac: prod
<davmor2> at some point laurac will snap and then we'll know it's still her
<laurac> bigcalm: eh why ?
<laurac> I never get that when men change their names to the wifes but each to their own tbh :)
<laurac> I do like tradition
<directhex> well
<directhex> legally
<directhex> there's no paperwork for a wife to change her name, or keep her name. just do it. any other choices require deed poll
<directhex> double-barrelling, or husband changing to wife's surname, deed poll
<directhex> which is a PITA
<zmoylan-pi> i prefer mononyms.  there's only one me
<directhex> everyone should use a GUID to identify themselves?
<daftykins> :D
<directhex> works until we colonize other planets & need to switch to UUID
<zmoylan-pi> can i use klingon characters in my guid? :-)
<laurac> loth double barrelling!
<daftykins> amusingly a mate just messaged to tell me my name was written wrong on the funeral attendance list for his dads funeral the other day
<daftykins> i even spelt it for this church guy!
<Myrtti> in Finland you need to fill a form to choose a last name when you're getting married. Both need to fill it, even if they keep their own names, which is the default.
<bigcalm> laurac: only suggested it to be contrary
<bigcalm> laurac: a cousin of mine and her fella both changed their surnames when they had a baby together.
<bigcalm> But aren't married
<foobarry> lol
<daftykins> that's a cunning way to do it
<foobarry> why not marry?
<zmoylan-pi> didn't want to fill out the forms :-)
<lopta> Ah poo. It was looking promising until the reboot but now I have a black screen.
<daftykins> reboot after having done what? :)
<lopta> daftykins: Installing 14.10
<daftykins> !nomodeset
<lubotu3> A common kernel (boot)parameter is nomodeset, which is needed for some graphic cards that otherwise boot into a black screen or show corrupted splash screen. See http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1613132 on how to use this parameter
<daftykins> try that
<daftykins> unless you know the exact hardware of the machine
<bigcalm> foobarry: they have their reasons. One might be that they've just had a baby and don't want the expense of a wedding
<bigcalm> Who can say
<lopta> Looks as though a cold reset helped.
<Azelphur> kinda tempted to buy http://www.hotukdeals.com/deals/mini-robotic-vacuum-cleaner-39-99-maplin-2155783 any thoughts?
<daftykins> don't dog sit, i've seen a nasty picture of what happens when someone with a robovac looks after a dog
<Azelphur> can't anyway, tenancy agreement doesn't allow it :P
<daftykins> ;]
 * lopta runs the Software Updater
<lopta> That's a curious font. Not bad, just a bit strange.
<daftykins> i prefer to just apt-get dist-upgrade ;)
<zmoylan-pi> my childhood cat used to assinate vacuum cleaners by pushing them down the stairs till they broke
<daftykins> lmao
<zmoylan-pi> she wasn't a fan of hoovers
<lopta> We used to have a little spherical hoover that floated on a cussion of air.
<lopta> I wonder whatever happened to those.
<lopta> Does Ubuntu ship with bash?
<daftykins> yes bash is the default
<Azelphur> zmoylan-pi: I remember I fell down the stairs onto the family hoover when I was a kid :P
<lopta> Has it been patched against "shell shock" (in case corporate IT ask me)?
<Azelphur> managed to Karate chop a chunk of it off on the way down
<zmoylan-pi> whatever happened to dysons wheelbarrows with a ball for a wheel?
<daftykins> lopta: ages ago, yeah
<lopta> zmoylan-pi: I had one of those when I was a toddler. Ballbarrow. Wasn't from Dyson though.
<daftykins> but feel free to confirm
<daftykins> :)
<lopta> daftykins: Great, thanks.
<lopta> Might try our computer-based training thing on this desktop once the updater's finished.
<daftykins> some web based thing?
 * lopta nods
<lopta> I'm tempted to max out the RAM on this but we really shouldn't spend money on it.
<daftykins> is it old?
 * lopta nods
<lopta> Pentium 4 something-or-other.
<lopta> 3 GHz
<lopta> Xubuntu works on it ...as does MS Windows 10 Technical Preview.
<daftykins> haha, i think people have very different definitions of 'works' :D i couldn't stand anything single core now
<lopta> daftykins: I have a dual-core Atom box at home and Mrs. lopta has a quad-core Phenom II.
<daftykins> :S
<lopta> daftykins: I have a shelf full of single-core desktops at the office though and if we use them at all, it'll be mostly as RDP terminals.
<daftykins> mmm makes sense
<daftykins> the College i used to work at and teach at gets donated even quad core systems now
<lopta> daftykins: We're not that fortunate. ;-)
<daftykins> i need to get in touch actually, there was talk of hundreds of laptops being offered 0o
<lopta> Time to try another reboot.
<daftykins> \o/
<lopta> I'd like to try one of those 8-core Atom chips but I don't have ready access to one and it's not a priority.
<daftykins> i think of all atoms as being glorified calculators :)
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> is this bad taste? http://newsthump.com/2015/02/28/william-shatner-steals-space-shuttle-to-search-for-reborn-leonard-nimoy/
<lopta> daftykins: Aren't all computers glorified calculators? ;-)
<daftykins> some have some actual beans :D
<lopta> I think our application server must be a VM
<lopta> Xeon X5550 but Task Manager only shows four cores.
<diddledan> yeah I don't suppose anyone uses real iron these days
<diddledan> except for hosting vms
<daftykins> not if they're sensible + sufficiently funded :)
<intrbiz> X5550 is a quad core chip is it not
<lopta> Hmm... might be bare metal. Apparently the X5550 is quad-core.
<lopta> Might be a single-socket server.
<intrbiz> or old one CPU installed
<daftykins> quad core with HT
<daftykins> http://ark.intel.com/products/37106/Intel-Xeon-Processor-X5550-8M-Cache-2_66-GHz-6_40-GTs-Intel-QPI
<daftykins> so 8 logical
<intrbiz> only* not old
<lopta> daftykins: HT may be turned off.
<daftykins> or VM as you said, whichever goes
<lopta> It's slow enough at times to be a VM.
 * lopta shrugs
<czajkowski> folks may find this interesting http://www.couchbase.com/press-releases/unity-couchbase-mobile-improves-game-development-with-sync-and-offline-support
<lopta> Well, it's able to play video.
<diddledan> lol @ spam - "Brandie k. wants Daniel to EXPLORE her B***S"
<daftykins> bills
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> yeah, I'm a financial advisor in a different life
<daftykins> *nod*
<daftykins> the US version of you :)
<diddledan> blinkbox have so far given me 3 half-price offers in the space of a month
<lopta> I wonder whether I am the U.S. version of me.
<lopta> Is it lunch time yet?
<diddledan> 17:30. methinks you missed it
<lopta> Only 11:36 here.
<lopta> Almost lunch time.
<diddledan> my spidey sense is tingling. I think we might have an interloper :-p
<daftykins> :D
<mapps> hi
<daftykins> afty mapps
<lopta> diddledan: Hopefully I'm allowed in. I'm a UK Citizen, if that counts.
<diddledan> lopta, lol, sure you're allowed
<daftykins> though offering us chocolate is always a good move
<diddledan> daftykins, +1
<lopta> Can't get real chocolate over here ;-)
<daftykins> hmm, diddledan note to UK customs... must install chocolate vending machines on other side of border
<diddledan> must be in amerrycar
<diddledan> only amerrycar does evil chocolate
<diddledan> the recipe of the damned hershey's method
<diddledan> the rest of the world is sane
<diddledan> especially belgium
<diddledan> belgium is the most sane in terms of chocolate
<diddledan> <3
<daftykins> any fave type from them? i don't think i've had much
<daftykins> i forget where Lindt is, swiss?
<diddledan> yeah, switzerland is pretty good too
<diddledan> I think you're right about lindt being swiss
<diddledan> those chocolate balls are divine
<daftykins> huzzah \o/
<diddledan> I love sucking on a chocolate ball
<diddledan> I usually just bite it tho
 * daftykins wonders where diddledan is going with this
<diddledan> I hadn't decided on a destination yet
<diddledan> but. innuendo is always a good idea
<lopta> Right, I've decided that it's lunch time.
<diddledan> lopta, \o/
<diddledan> nomnomnom
<daftykins> i didn't want to stop eating today
<lopta> I was able to use Ubuntu to complete one computer-based training course.
<daftykins> i had a bowl of cereal and then a pasta snack from M&S for lunch
<diddledan> daftykins, you have real M&S over there?!
<daftykins> yip
<lopta> That's done, so it's time to buy windscreen wipers, washer fluid, sarnies etc.
<diddledan> wow, and there was me thinking you were in the stone-age
<daftykins> in fact, i know of at least 3 shops in the island
<davmor2> diddledan: bet he doesn't
<lopta> Think I'll go to K-mart.
<daftykins> the town one has a little food hall, the other two are full size supermarkets
<daftykins> but their food is too fancy to be of the likes i'd buy ;)
<daftykins> (mostly)
<lopta> K-mart, at least it's not Wal*Mart[tm]
<diddledan> lopta, nah, go to the quickie mart
<daftykins> the lunch stuff though, ooooh yes
<lopta> brb
<diddledan> aye, m&s snacks are wow
<diddledan> so gog.com just emailed me about a massive sale they're having on digital downloads of games "until stock runs out"
<daftykins> lmao
<daftykins> diddledan: all bits must GO!
<zmoylan-pi> maybe they're selling bitcoins, the game known as 'steal the parcel'? :-P
<ali1234> gog doesn't accept bitcoins
<mapps> SO SO quiet and is only 10;22
<mapps> everyone must just sit in and watch tv here
<daftykins> =]
<shauno> busted
<shauno> just about to try this 'last man on earth'.  it sounds like it should be about as stupid as I feel
<daftykins> a film?
<mapps> ;]
<shauno> new series
<shauno> last man on earth finds the last woman on earth.  and discover they don't quite get along.
<daftykins> i'm still amazed they're letting Halle Berry do a second Extant season
<mapps> im watching that night ast the museum new one
<mapps> prob gonna suck
<mapps> jmm dont recal extant i gather first season was garbage daftykins?
<daftykins> pretty damn terrible yep
<daftykins> but then anything with a baby in tends to get ruined ;)
#ubuntu-uk 2015-03-03
<mapps> yep boring film
<mapps> night at museum another ben stiller load of rubbish
<mapps> was that sh
<mapps> any good shauno
<mapps> cool the following is back
<mapps> daftykins awake|
<mapps> ?
<shauno> was better than I expected mapps, but I didn't expect much :)
<zmoylan-pi> a cookie cutter movie by the numbers for the kids
<shauno> and it appears to be snowing again
<mapps> snowing where?
<shauno> outside
<zmoylan-pi> well it is march in ireland :-)
<mapps> hmm shauno better than expected..worth watching then?
<mapps> I mean what area
<mapps> gah
<zmoylan-pi> gotta have snow in ireland in march
<shauno> way over here mapps, http://www.bbc.com/weather/2964180
<shauno> we don't get snow so often. or thunderstorms.  I think I remember one thunderstorm in the 8 years I've been here
<shauno> usually it's just wind that could be best descibed as ADHD, with an 80% chance of rain
<zmoylan-pi> only 80%, a dry day so... :-)
<knightwise> hey shauno zmoylan-pi
<zmoylan-pi> \o
<shauno> o/
<MooDoo> morning all
<davmor2> Morning all
<nigelb> hello davmor2
<MooDoo> hello davmor2 nigelb
<davmor2> hey nigelb long time no see
<davmor2> MooDoo: me owld mucka hows the server now?
<foobarry> thats the irc equivalent of "hows the rash"
<shauno> reminds me of a fun one recently.  chap complaining that ssh was accepting blank passwords.  even for accounts that didn't have blank passwords.  no matter what he tried to change in sshd_config
<shauno> turned out the answer wasn't misconfiguration, it was hard pwned
<diplo> shauno, I worry about stuff like that with some of our customers. the staff in our head office aren't overly security concious and the customers don't understand how bad things have or can be... just don't want to pay to fix upgrade
<shauno> always a strange one.  they wouldn't lock the front door with a rubber band.  but there's a lot more people chancing this door than the front door
<diplo> I've stopped worrying now, it's not my issue and no one listens to me, I've found 2 customer servers running ircd servers for control servers
<diplo> Cleaned them up and locked them down, told my bosses that the machines should be wiped and reinstalled as I couldnt be 100% I got everything
<diplo> They've not done it yet!
<diplo> That was very close to my analogy shauno :) I've told my bosses they need to get legal advise on how we are covered as we support this stuff, they seem very blase about it!!!
<shauno> in completely unrelated news, today is new toy day.  stoked.
<diplo> What you bought ?
<shauno> nothing yet.  I have to time things perfectly
<foobarry> my amazon voucher fund is growing
<diplo> :)
<shauno> this is the magical time where my shifts swing around to give me 4 non-weekend days in a row.  which means I can order things and be at home when they're delivered
<foobarry> my voucher account is the only secret account i have that i don't share with the wife
<foobarry> poor rate of interest though
<moreati> In the last few months I read about an experimental alternative to the Synaptics driver, for Macbook touch pads. I can't remember the name though. Ring any bells?
<shauno> mtrack?  (xserver-xorg-input-mtrack)
<shauno> that's the one suggested in https://help.ubuntu.com/community/MacBookPro11-1/utopic   but I can't promise it's the same one you heard on the grapevine
<moreati> shauno: that's the one, thank you
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy "What If Cats and Dogs Had Opposable Thumbs?" Day! :-D
<brobostigon> morning JamesTait
<JamesTait> brobostigon, o/
<MooDoo> morning
<JamesTait> \o MooDoo
<zmoylan-pi> cats would no longer need us and us to the hunt for sport list
<zmoylan-pi> *and move us
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo
<foobarry> trying to buy a new shaver today
<foobarry> my 10yr old remington is starting to chew my face
<zmoylan-pi> or your face has aged...
<foobarry> :-o
<Laney> no, blame the remington! i'm still 21!
<shauno> zmoylan's just a big mean meanie.
<foobarry> i don't come here to have my 40 year old face abused
<foobarry> anyway doesn't skin refresh every 8 years
<zmoylan-pi> it's replaced with older less stretchy more saggy skin.
<Laney> pegs
<zmoylan-pi> a few pegs to tighten up the skin for him to shave might help... :-)
<davmor2> JamesTait: we've seen the advert they take over the world.....NOT TODAY KITTY!!!!
<davmor2> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6CcxJQq1x8 and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wxGH7aq780 for those that have no idea what I'm on about
<daftykins> mornin'
<davmor2> daftykins: morning
<daftykins> ah, just received a little 1TB USB 3 external HDD from amazon for the grand price of Â£38 delivered
<zmoylan-pi> you'll never fill a whole terabyte!! :-)
 * daftykins glances at the RAID with 4TB free of 10
 * zmoylan-pi remember when work got a 110mb drive for novell network at work
<daftykins> did the doors have to come off to get it in? ;)
<zmoylan-pi> had to replace that a week later with 330mb drive as we filled the 110mb in 3 days.  that was a lot of shuffling floppies
<daftykins> :S
<zmoylan-pi> that 330mb lasted a few years. an esdi drive iirc
<daftykins> electro-static discharge initiated? :)
<zmoylan-pi> now you can get a 1tb usb flash drive.  not cheap mind
<zmoylan-pi> can't wait till i find one of those on public transport :-)
<daftykins> :)
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: you can now get 200GB micro-sd cards again not cheap
<zmoylan-pi> and not accepted in a lot of hardware.
<daftykins> compatibility is apparently overrated ;D
<zmoylan-pi> my phone tops out at 32gb.  only have a 16gb card in it
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: yeap but then support for something that doesn't exist is kinda hard to support
<zmoylan-pi> 16gb is a lot of music, ebooks, audio comedies and audio books
<zmoylan-pi> and you can store an entire library of extra 16gb cards in your wallet in a single original sized sd card case :-)
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<zmoylan-pi> only just :-)
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/4mxvkkhn4s7r4fk/IMG_20150303_115524.jpg?dl=0
<daftykins> the thing has arms!
<zmoylan-pi> and paws
<zmoylan-pi> or flippers
<davmor2> bigcalm: is this you just managed to drag yourself out of bed and turn on your pc?
<bigcalm> davmor2: it's that I've just managed to drag my concentration away from work and log into IRC for a few mins
<bigcalm> davmor2: come to the LUG on Wednesday! It's at the Oddfellows for a change
<daftykins> i'm quite disappointed though, USB 3.0 drive and the best i've seen it do today is 25MB/sec :(
<davmor2> bigcalm: I don't know whats on yet but I'll likely be there if it is as quiet as yesterday and today is being, /me hugs mwc
<bigcalm> Wow, some time off for you!
<davmor2> shhhhh you'll jinx it
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/hb1g23thwdurnfq/IMG_20150303_131252.jpg?dl=0
<daftykins> mmmm tasty
<foobarry> i'm being organised and trying to think of mothers day gifts
<foobarry> any ideas?
<Myrtti> what's the budget?
<Myrtti> what is she into?
<foobarry> for the wife
<foobarry> craft
<foobarry> sewing, crochet, spinning, wool, handmade
<foobarry> flowers
<foobarry> girl things
<Myrtti> carbon fiber knitting pins
<Myrtti> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Karbonz-Interchangeable-Needle-Starter-fabric/dp/B00L926V2O/
<foobarry> why are they better than bamboo/metal?
 * daftykins chuckles
<daftykins> speed, foobarry !
<Myrtti> light and durable
<foobarry> mrs foobarry knitted me qa wonderful lap blanket of natural colours of sheep wool
<Myrtti> the 1mm ones double pointed are absolutely obscene
<foobarry> white/brown/dark
<Myrtti> I still haven't gotten over the fact they exist and how they feel
<Myrtti> if she's more into DPN pins, http://www.amazon.co.uk/KnitPro-Karbonz-Double-Pointed-Needle/dp/B00F3F6TFM/
<foobarry> i may investigate
<foobarry> they look like implements of torture
<Myrtti> I recommended them to Pricey last year for his sister's birthday and apparently she was very taken by the gift
<foobarry> can i ask yet again what those special socks are please?
<foobarry> :S
<Myrtti> foobarry: the flight socks?
<foobarry> yeah
<Myrtti> nabeesocks.com
<foobarry> thanks
<popey> \o/ nabee
<Myrtti> some of mine start to look a bit worn
<foobarry> bought one of these
<foobarry> http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B004TKCFM8
<foobarry> bluetooth adapter thingy
<zmoylan-pi> everyone loves bluetooth :-)
<foobarry> turns my dumb stereo into a streaming stereo
<zmoylan-pi> i got rid of my ancient tape/cd/radio stereo years ago.  i replaced it with dab radios in bedroom and kitchen
<daftykins> my brother bought a DAB radio once
<zmoylan-pi> i hadn't used tape since 90s
<daftykins> didn't realise the Channel Islands don't broadcast it XD
<foobarry> failz
<zmoylan-pi> yeah you kinda have to buy a dab radio to see if there's dab radio about :-)
<Myrtti> foobarry: I have a Belkin one and two Gramofon's
<Myrtti> hubby has a teeny tiny one in his car
<foobarry> :-|
<daftykins> zmoylan-pi: not really :P you just use the website
<foobarry> but does it have a "101%" satisfaction guarantee from 7dayshop
<zmoylan-pi> the website might say you are in a dab covered area but only when you test an actual device in that location will you see how good or bad the signal is
<daftykins> true, but knowing that the Channel Islands don't even offer it would've been a good money saving move :)
<zmoylan-pi> very true
<zmoylan-pi> kinda like ethopia buying an electric chair when they had no electricity...
<foobarry> oh no, post-lunch sleepy time is coing
<foobarry> fight the sleepiness
<foobarry> i just had a massive choc brownie too
 * popey hugs his kitchen DAB radio
<popey> shame it has an iphone dock.
<foobarry> i stopped listening to radio when my car aerial got nicked
<popey> I'll probably keep my iphone in it forever
<davmor2> popey: I love all of our dab radios one in the caravan, one in office and one in the living room
<zmoylan-pi> can't you replace the aerial with a coat hanger for that 70s retro look? :-)
<foobarry> i could, or maybe buy one for Â£20
<zmoylan-pi> coat hanger it is :-)
<foobarry> but i realised radio is a bit rubbish when you are fussy
<popey> used to love the motorised aerial i had in my daimler
<popey> that was a classy car :)
<foobarry> pimpey
<popey> it was one of the cheapest cars I ever bought, 900 quid
<popey> bit of an old nail
<popey> V12, 5.3.. guzzled fuel
<zmoylan-pi> my brothers first car cost him irÂ£200.  a datsun 100a.  i remember all the cold mornings helping to push start the flippin thing.
<foobarry> was datsun the european name of nissan?
<zmoylan-pi> once it was stolen.  my brother just went walking till he found it abandoned.  it was that crap
<foobarry> i never bothered to google it, but occasinoally think about it
<zmoylan-pi> they used to trade in europe in 70s as datsun before rebranding as nissan i think
<popey> my first car cost me 80 quid
<daftykins> should've called themselves dachshund
<popey> oh, maybe that was my 3rd car
<popey> Mustard coloured morris marina
<davmor2> foobarry: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datsun you know google does wonders
<foobarry> davmor2: sometimes its nicer to discuss :D
<zmoylan-pi> now davmor2 will be bombarded with datsun adverts :-)
<foobarry> most of the time i think about it i'm not connected to the net
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: better than some of the crap I get hit with :)
<foobarry> also the article has too many words
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: the prime one is insurance shockingly :D
<davmor2> foobarry: you only need to read the first line datsun are a company now owned by nissan
<foobarry> that doesn't answer the origin of datsun name
<foobarry> zmoylan-pi summarised more nicely
<foobarry> maybe i should check simplepedia
<davmor2> foobarry: It's a company now owned by nissan, so there was datsun and nissan now there is only nissan as nissan bought datsun
<Myrtti> bouquet arrived safely back home to Blighty. I don't know if I can be bothered to rewire it back to writing condition yet
<daftykins> writing with flowers?
<davmor2> foobarry: same as VolksWagen owning most car brand on the street nowadays :)
<Myrtti> arduino and rgb led's
<Myrtti> working, even
<Myrtti> not writing
<foobarry> yeah, i miss my seat ibiza
<davmor2> foobarry: that a VW with a ibiza body
<foobarry> yep, and random assortment from vw parts bin
<foobarry> i preferred it to the polo
<foobarry> good price and great economy
<foobarry> inthe 1.9tdi
<foobarry> bought it brand new :-|
<foobarry> only time i'll ever do that
<davmor2> foobarry: my skoda is a passat running gear and a skoda body
<foobarry> i would have kept the ibiza but it had 3doors and i since married and had offspring
<foobarry> so went for focus estate, but tested teh skoda
<davmor2> oh there is a speedtest-cli that can give a link to the png for you to copy paste nice
<daftykins> odd, speedtest-cli is only in utopic? 0o
<popey> (and vivid)
<popey> its fairly new iirc
<daftykins> ah-har, ty
<Myrtti> ever got a speeding ticket? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-news-from-elsewhere-31709454
<popey> zoiks
<davmor2> Myrtti: hahahahaha oh that has to sting,  I bet he won't speed any more though
<MooDoo> yeah i have Myrtti lol
<daftykins> "Finland is impossible to live in for certain kinds of people who have high incomes and wealth." - yes, try not breaking the law then :P
<diddledan> lol
<davmor2> MooDoo: you own a bike surely it goes with the territory
<diddledan> in unrelated but somewhat related news - bbc news has a new beta site?
<daftykins> diddledan: indeed, going the washed-out bland Office 2013 way it seems, too
<MooDoo> davmor2: i don't speed on a bike, not that stupid
<diddledan> it looks like they've taken design cues from gov.uk
<davmor2> MooDoo: hahahahahahahahahahahahaahaha ;)
<MooDoo> :p
<Myrtti> http://www.poliisi.fi/poliisi/home.nsf/pages/DBFAADA6D2B601D8C2257C05001CE1B9?opendocument
<foobarry> i got told off by a copper for going too fast on my pushbike
<foobarry> he neglected to speak with teh minicab driver who parked on a cycle lane and flung his dirver door open in front of me
<diddledan> foobarry, they can't prosecute push-bikes for speeding, instead they have an ancient law from eons ago that gets you for "peddling furiously"
<directhex> we have lots of great old laws that aren't enforced properly
<directhex> e.g. the "fraudulent mediums act" makes it illegal to lie about being able to talk to spirits
<bashrc> heh
<foobarry> diddledan: i was freewheeling :P
<foobarry> but going around 25-30 mph
<foobarry> and then braking furiously
<foobarry> as the numpy tried to kill me
<diddledan> according to bikehub.co.uk there's confusion over the matter as someone searched for the specific law but couldn't find it however there have been convictions on record that have been found. (Taylor v. Goodwin (1879) for example) there is however statute for "riding furiously" under the 1847 town police clauses act
<popey> today I discovered /etc/kernel/postinst.d/apt-auto-removal
<diddledan> foobarry, I love the word numpty
<foobarry> numpty eejit and muppet and jerk (for other drivers) are my go to words
<foobarry> for the general public and users
<diddledan> I like that numpty sounds so trivial and then you plaster on the end "tried to kill me"
<davmor2> popey: oh is that the thing that handles kernel cleanup now
<popey> yeah, looks that way
<davmor2> popey: yeah I noticed it on trusty server I couldn't figure out why /boot wasn't running out of space anymore :)
<foobarry> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-31711446 weasel on a woodpecker
<MicrobeSerf> lol
<MicrobeSerf> http://www.britishpathe.com/video/chimps-take-over
<NET||abuse> really dissapionted right now, i'm only getting about 3/4 hours out of the xps13, under a reasonably normal workload, few browser tabs, spotify, skype(x2), hipchat, couple of shells, sublimetext,
<NET||abuse> so that's my 5 ish days experience with it now
<Myrtti> 3-4 hours or 3/4 hours
<NET||abuse> oh, anyone here go to any london meetups?
<NET||abuse> hehe, 3||4 hours
<NET||abuse> :P
<NET||abuse> I'm going to this (as long as my night pass gets issues from her at home)  http://www.meetup.com/Docker-London/events/220145735/
<ali1234> wow, so the compiz white windows bug is finally getting fixed almost 4 years to the day after the first report
<NET||abuse> that sounds familiar..
<ali1234> yeah i know, but this time it's nvidia claiming to have fixed it, not canonical
<ali1234> which means the fix will probably work
<diddledan> lol
<intrbiz> compiz is still a thing?
<popey> of course
<daftykins> just the other day we had someone after the 3D cube of desktops back again, i felt like it was 2006 again
<daftykins> oh, the folly of youth
<diddledan> I tried it for a bit but found that I didn't really take any notice when switching desktops
<diddledan> I found that when I'm switching to a different workspace I was doing it because I wanted to do something there so I didn't care how it actually did the switch as long as it did it quickly
<daftykins> *nod*
<daftykins> whereas wobbly windows of course is a clear productivity improver
<diddledan> oh yes
<shauno> and the fire?
<diddledan> I love how it makes it impossible to accurately position one window beside another
<diddledan> shauno, you use enlightenment?!
<daftykins> it was the aliasing that really made me cringe
<daftykins> in fact i bet that looks a fair bit better on these modern res screens
<diddledan> aye
<NET||abuse> anyone else had issues with vlc and green snow all over all the videos you try to playback?
<Myrtti> I had that years ago
<NET||abuse> having it now on 14.10
<diddledan> corrupt video?
<NET||abuse> nope, same video played back fine in mpv
<NET||abuse> the video is playing, but green snow all over..
<NET||abuse> trying it now with minitube.
<diddledan> in that case then it's a processing speed issue
<daftykins> sounds like a renderer thing
<NET||abuse> uhoh.....
<intrbiz> with hindsight the whole wobbly windows thing seems like an era of mass hysteria
<diddledan> intrbiz, aye, everyone and his dog was "OMG THE WOBBLES!"
<diddledan> the number of youtube videos that went up showing it and the cube
<intrbiz> diddledan: yeh, then after 10 minutes it was f**king irritating
<NET||abuse> http://snag.gy/qVaJB.jpg
<daftykins> wow you lasted 10 minutes? :)
<diddledan> NET||abuse, ooh, that really is a weird behaviour - I've never seen that before
<intrbiz> daftykins: possibly, might not have been that long, I remember playing with the gravity settings etc, so get it do do silly things
<NET||abuse> hmm,
<intrbiz> and the whole blured / transparent window thing, that got irritating quickly, along with the cube
<intrbiz> the cover switch alt-tab is nice though
<NET||abuse> likeed the sticky edges that you could do with wobbly windows.
<intrbiz> NET||abuse: KDE has sticky edges
<NET||abuse> window tile snapping is one nice side effect that i think hasn't been as broadly adopted by gnome or unity
<intrbiz> NET||abuse: snapping to half / quarter screen you mean?
<NET||abuse> well, half screen seems to be supported, but the greater general tilling support i haven't seen as much of
<intrbiz> NET||abuse: the 1/2 and 1/4 screen snapping in KDE is handy at times
<NET||abuse> there's a gnome extension or two that tries but the support for keeping htem working between gnome releases lead to horrible glitches
<NET||abuse> unity and gnome do half screen snapping by default i think, but not ht e1/4 screeen, that sounds nice actually.
<intrbiz> I also like the window shadow and darken parent to give more visual depth
<NET||abuse> specially withthe 4k screens nowadays.
<NET||abuse> though then i want to get into 1/3 width and 1/2 height snapping
<intrbiz> 1/4 screen can be handy when using lots of terminals
<intrbiz> and multi-monitor aware snapping too
<NET||abuse> I want 6 tiles.... there are SIX tiles!!
<NET||abuse> having star trek piccard torture scene flash backs there...
<NET||abuse> intrbiz: ooh,good call
<intrbiz> I also like the window tabbing that KDE has
<NET||abuse> trying to fix this vlc thing, changing to opengl output (experimental) works, except can't scale the video with the vlc window
<NET||abuse> only alt+1/2/3  scale the video to a certain degree
<NET||abuse> ok, OpenGL GLX output works
<NET||abuse> right, time to go to meetup and hear all about docker :)
<NET||abuse> and drink beer and have free pizza
<daftykins> https://imgur.com/gallery/nnJLHk9
<diddledan> can someone tell me what kind of updates they're talking about and find me a google term that tells me what it actually is from this video at 35:55 (http://www.elasticsearch.org/videos/big-data-search-and-analytics/)
<diddledan> it sounds like ballock but google doesn't know the term
<daftykins> block? o0
<daftykins> bulk!
<diddledan> it doesn't sound like bulk
<daftykins> the guy corrects him and he agrees though 0o
<diddledan> there's two syllables
<diddledan> bulk would make sense but it sure doesn't sound like bulk
<daftykins> but they're foreign
<daftykins> :>
<diddledan> that's no excuse
<diddledan> even foreigners should learn english
<daftykins> the guy may've only seen it written before
<diddledan> oh america: http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2015/03/03/ben-carson-needs-religion-to-differentiate-between-science-and-propaganda_n_6792376.html?utm_hp_ref=tw
<intrbiz> diddledan: 'scientific belief' what a oxymoron
<diddledan> that describes him, really, an oxy moron
<intrbiz> :)
<diddledan> I don't see why religious people can't accept science
<diddledan> it's not like the bible says : thou shalt not listen to scientists for they speak the word of the devil
<diddledan> helleluja
<diddledan> +h
<diddledan> hallelujah**
<diddledan> thank you spellcheck
<intrbiz> diddledan: religious people are indoctrinated to believe without exception in the book that they follow, hence when science say this is incorrect they cannot accept it
<intrbiz> IMHO it's the concept of belief which is the issue, people need to think for themselves
<daftykins> uh-oh it's that topic
<shauno> buddha actually has a good one on that - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalama_Sutta
<shauno> (and I mean pali canon type buddha, not e-cards type buddha)
<daftykins> Kalama Sutta, what a wonderful phrase ~
<diddledan> I prefer the karma sutra
<diddledan> :-p
<diddledan> well someone had to say it
<daftykins> it was a matter of time really
<shauno> "a matter of dan" is probably closer ;)
<shauno> it's an interesting teaching though.  it pretty much puts "something you can prove" ahead of all other doctrine
<diddledan> clever ol' stick wasn't he
<daftykins> crikey, that'd definitely empty the libraries ;)
<shauno> so I've added spdif output to my pi.  now I have to wait for cables to show up before I can actually try it.  booooring
<shauno> and then will come the fun part - I want mpd and retropie to use different sound devices
<daftykins> you pesky users and your awkward requirements
<daftykins> :D
<shauno> hehe
<daftykins> SPDIF eh, no HDMI AV receiver?
<shauno> nah
<shauno> well, I don't run the TV through this usually, since the speakers aren't lined up to the TV
<diddledan> I need new speakers - mine are getting wonky
<daftykins> ah-har
<diddledan> pc speakers I mean
<daftykins> diddledan: wasn't you that had the same Logitech 5.1 set, was it 0o
<diddledan> nah
<shauno> I've just ordered some honking great floorstanding jobs.  I'm slightly concerned I may be too scrawny to move them :/
<diddledan> I've got cheapo flatpanel speaker
<diddledan> s
<diddledan> shauno, what about the children^Zneighbours?
<daftykins> i'd offer to help but i'm a cripple
<shauno> the neighbours make more noise than I do.  and at less sociable hours
<shauno> if they're willing to trade "toning down my music" in return for "toning down their sex life", I'm game
<diddledan> I'm curious what you consider unsociable hours when you're awake all night
<shauno> I don't do anything loud past 10-11pm
<shauno> I can be awake without rattling windows :)
<diddledan> I pretty much never make a lot of noise - I don't see the need to blast out extreme volumes
<diddledan> I can hear perfectly well at lower levels
<shauno> I sometimes have the desire to ensure whatever I'm doing is louder than whatever they're doing
<diddledan> heh
<shauno> I won't go into details, suffice to say it's icky
<diddledan> whips?
<diddledan> chains?
<daftykins> do the cops ever visit? :>
<diddledan> ghosts?
<diddledan> "he possessed me"
<SuperEngineer> Very close to deleting both home & root right now {& doing a clean install of 14.04.2] but would rather find the culprit...
<daftykins> i vote it's diddledan
<SuperEngineer> CPU running 50-70% when should be idle - network short pulse very regular...
<daftykins> network pulse? 0o
<diddledan> emp?
<SuperEngineer> ...my suspician... I've become part of a bot-net.  All suggestions very, very welcome!
<diddledan> thermonuclear detonation?
<daftykins> SuperEngineer: reboot and log into the guest session
<SuperEngineer> daftykins, both send & recieve when nothing to send or recieve
<diddledan> what does top reveal?
<SuperEngineer> it keeps showing xorg as the culprit - but xorg should want network access, should it?
<diddledan> why do you think the network access is suspicious?
<SuperEngineer> plus - xorg is a root process - that is the worry
<SuperEngineer> I know my usual network pattern for send and receive
<SuperEngineer> I know at idle I use less than 5% CPu - not 50-70 %
<diddledan> how are you monitoring your network?
<daftykins> tcpdump'd it to see what it's doing?
<SuperEngineer> diddledan, a simply look at sys monitor
<SuperEngineer> and a watchful eye on dongle light
<diddledan> that's not conclusive
<SuperEngineer> the dongle light is
<diddledan> it's highly likely to be standard traffic
<SuperEngineer> it's as if this was a windows system!
<daftykins> now now :P
<SuperEngineer> daftykins ;)
<daftykins> so, tcpdump, guest session...
<SuperEngineer> diddledan, why - when you know your normal - & suddenly things go abormal - is that not a reason for suspicion?
<diddledan> it's reason for investigation if you can prove it's abnormal
<daftykins> usually things seem quirky until you arrive at a sensible explanation
<diddledan> I fail to see network traffic "small pulse" as abnormal
<daftykins> for example the time i was RDP'ing home to Guernsey from Uni and the wrong box came up... someone else had just gotten my dynamic IP briefly ;)
<SuperEngineer> Guest session seems a good idea [and, annoyingly, one I hadn't thought of ;) - will go to Guest now]... lets see what happens...
<SuperEngineer> & thanks
<daftykins> don't tell him i run Windows
<daftykins> it'll only add insult to injury
<diddledan> I'm on 'dows, too
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> diddledows
<davmor2> daftykins: is it just me or does diddledows seem even closer to the doctor who theme than diddledan does :D
<diddledan> ~diddledan diddledan diddledan oo-eeee-oooooo ooo ooo oooo~
<diddledan> ~daaa daaa daaa dum de dum~
<shauno> why are people so paranoid about root?  you can quite happily join a botnet from a user account
<diddledan> yup
<davmor2> diddledan: but diddledows is closer still
<daftykins> i actually don't watch Doctor Who
 * daftykins ducks
<diddledan> OH EMM GEE
<diddledan> you must have lied on your "I'm a geek" application form
<diddledan> you did get good points for ensuring an orderly submission in triplicate
<diddledan> though*
<davmor2> daftykins: you know when you type that it's not in your inner voice anymore and people can read it right ;)
<daftykins> which part am i typing?
<daftykins> or *i am
<ujjain> IÂ´m frustrated that people at my job bother me every 10 minutes while IÂ´m coding and we have to go to production in 3 weeks, arghargargh.
<shauno> needs more kumbaya.  with enough kumbaya, people won't bother you unless they really, really have to
<ujjain> haha
<ujjain> maybe I should just stop showering and start smelling really bad
<SuperEngineer> diddledan, ok now I'm confused - tried Guest seddion & all back to nirmal
<shauno> I'd file that under "Taking work home with you".
<daftykins> ujjain: just put eyes on the back of your head, simple
<SuperEngineer> ...logged back in as me and, again - all back to normal?!
 * daftykins looks smug for no justifiable reason
<SuperEngineer> now let's see what happens after a reboot.... [fingers crossed]
<daftykins> this is when it breaks
<daftykins> which is an ideal time for me to move downstairs...
<SuperEngineer> hmmmmmmmmm...
<shauno> mmhmmmm?
<SuperEngineer> CPU usage back to normal, network in/ot back to normal. How & what difference was made by logging in as Guest for a few seconds make???
<SuperEngineer> #confused ;)
<shauno> something was running that you couldn't see, but hasn't been started again (yet?)?
<SuperEngineer> shauno - dunno [especially, as I said earlier, I suspect I had become part of a bot-net], but I am breathing a sigh of relief
<SuperEngineer> all of a sudden the word "normal " is the new rolls royce for me
<SuperEngineer> Could it be that someone was permantly on my system as Guest & I killed it by being "Guest" myself?
<diddledan> no
<SuperEngineer> hmmm
<SuperEngineer> Perhaps I will never know, but it is *good* to be back to normal
<SuperEngineer> ..but ~I owe you one for the simplest of ideas!
<SuperEngineer> [even though the outcome was not diagnostics, but cure!]  :)
<SuperEngineer> On the bright side, with such high CPU usage, it was the 1st time I've had such positive prood of how "indepently" the CPU cores were working :D
<shauno> feels like the 90s again.  I can't figure out how to mount a smb share :)
<SuperEngineer> Before /me goes for nom noms - diddledan w
<SuperEngineer> diddledan, I thank you - I dunno if your idea was to cure the problem or find out what the problem was. I don't care - it cured it & I thank you
<shauno> usually guest is just to narrow it down - to whether something's system-broke or wonky in your profile
<SuperEngineer> shauno, glad to be thought of as "wonky" - I am, indeed, highly complimented ;)
<SuperEngineer> "SuperEngineer - the bestest engineer - but a wee bit slightly wonky"
<SuperEngineer> ;)
<shauno> all the good ones are ;)
<SuperEngineer> lol
<shauno> I try not to whine about my house being cold constantly.  but my thermometer says it's 10.3C outside, and 7.7C inside :(
<daftykins> :D
<shauno> so I'm going outside to warm up before bed
<zmoylan-pi> run around till you warm it up :-)
<shauno> actually, I've started graphing it.  and you can see when I'm home, when I'm not, when I'm asleep, and the weird spike at 4pm when sunset comes in my window
<shauno> http://i.imgur.com/wGD3HFz.png   there's a nice spike when I got up (top line is one room, bottom line is another)
<shauno> but you can actually see the top line go down when I go to bed, and back up when I get up.  I do appear to be the radiator around here
<shauno> anyway.  'night
<zmoylan-pi> a great bernard would heat that house :-)
<diddledan> chilly willy!
<daftykins> the penguin?
<diddledan> o_O
<diddledan> isn't the penguin called pingu?
<diddledan> or tux
<zmoylan-pi> chilly willy predated pingu and tux.  from the time of woody wood pecker
<daftykins> :D
<mapps> heylo
<daftykins> o hai
<zmoylan-pi> \o
<mapps> you watched house of cards? think that'll be the next series i start
<mapps> should be able to get through series 1 and 2 in a week:)
<mapps> 13 eps a season..26 eps in 7 days? easy!
<zmoylan-pi> the uk version or the american?
<mapps> didn't know there was a uk? thought it was an original us thing
<zmoylan-pi> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Cards_(UK_TV_series)
<zmoylan-pi> 4 episodes mini series in 90s
<daftykins> i started s1 but never finished it
<mapps> oh
<mapps> didnt enjoy it daftykins?
<daftykins> i enjoyed the first... ~3/4 ? but... i can't really explain without spoilers
<zmoylan-pi> which i also haven't seen.  i learned all i need to know from yes minister :-)
#ubuntu-uk 2015-03-04
<diddledan> dum de dum
<zmoylan-pi> doobie doobie doo
<diddledan> do yoo 'ave a lissonce for this minkey?
<diddledan> do yoo 'ave a lissonce for this minkey?
<zmoylan-pi> the monkey doesn't tell me what to play and i don't tell the monkey what to do with his money
<diddledan> I have no idea what my nickserv password is
<zmoylan-pi> glad that was cleared up :-)
<m0nkey_> g'night all
<diplo> Morning all
<MooDoo> morning diplo
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<davmor2> Morning all
<MooDoo> morning chap
<davmor2> MooDoo: Pip pip, tally ho, olwd bean, in top form dear chap, you?
<MooDoo> yeah man ok
<davmor2> MooDoo: for some reason I expected a Peace Man \/m
<MooDoo> lol
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Grammar Day! :-D
<daftykins> ^_^
<daftykins> good morning indeed
<daftykins> argh there's an air conditioning unit near here that's periodically making a huge squeaky racket :P
<foobarry> wd40 in the intake :P
<daftykins> mmm, trouble is i can't quite pinpoint where it's coming from
<daftykins> i love on a narrow steep lane, so the sound is bouncing like crazy
<daftykins> tempted to ask the hotel opposite but it might not be theirs, could be a unit that's just beside some flats
<daftykins> though it has all manner of barbed wire fencing up to it
<daftykins> in other news - i just received a super cheap Â£208 Lenovo 15" intel i3 laptop!
<daftykins> pretty neat it is too 0o
<popey> http://www.reddit.com/r/Ubuntu/comments/2xto6a/i_was_at_the_canonical_stand_and_spent_5_minutes/
<daftykins> XD
<davmor2> JamesTait: One is particularly proud of 'is lack of grammar :P "The Walter in Majorca Don't Taste like Wot rit Aughta" and all that pip pip, tally ho
<daftykins> XD
<JamesTait> I'm sorry, davmor2, I have no idea what you just said. :-P
<davmor2> JamesTait: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uz9_YfIQaz4
<JamesTait> popey, that link makes me smile, and reminds me of the second time I met Jane.  I was at Millbank for a sprint and, being only my second visit to the office, I thought I'd have a walk round and introduce myself to a few people.  I bumped into Jane in the kitchen, recognised her, and introduced myself with "Hello, I don't think we've met - I'm James."
<JamesTait> popey, her response?  "Yes, I know, we met before when you were going to Italy."
<popey> :)
<daftykins> "now give me back my mug"
<JamesTait> I felt like an idiot, but she was so nice about it.
<daftykins> should've used the twin brother defense
<JamesTait> I used the "New guy, flying visit, still finding my feet" tactic.
<JamesTait> Which was perfectly valid - I'd been with the company three weeks, as I recall.
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> hmm i might use this Windows 8.1 Lenovo as an opportunity to document an Ubuntu beside Windows dualboot install
<daftykins> so many get drowned in the many ridiculous partitions these OEM things come with
<JamesTait> davmor2, I remember that advert - I'd forgotten just how well she does the accents, though. :D
<davmor2> JamesTait: it's the bloke at the end that tickles me after she's done such a great job :)
<JamesTait> "Ya, absolutely wrong!"
<popey> woah, skype is built into windows 10?
<daftykins> yip
<daftykins> as will be the program to stream from the xbox 0o
<davmor2> popey: well MS owns them so why wouldn't they
<foobarry> like msn was "built in"?
<popey> true
<foobarry> its like antitrust never happened
<daftykins> i don't think the case was ever about instant messaging programs
<foobarry> it killed aim/yahoo and others
<daftykins> yahoo's still going afaik
<foobarry> and real player had a case too
<foobarry> althought real SUCKED
<daftykins> realBUFFERINGplayer :>
<foobarry> In October, 2005, Microsoft agreed to pay RealNetworks $460 million to settle an antitrust lawsuit.[10]
<foobarry> Number of employees
<foobarry> 1,060 (2012)
<foobarry> wow
<daftykins> that's how many Real had?
<foobarry> in 2012
<foobarry> and probably still have them
<foobarry> yahoo and real are enigmas to me
<popey> real (until recently) were paid licenses by a number of tv networks for their streaming servers
<popey> yahoo are paid by large companies who have content deals
<popey> e.g. SAP has/had Yahoo! integration
<foobarry> bought a load of batteries off ebay, seem to be good prices
<foobarry> the same duracells i usually buy
<daftykins> you're not a rechargable fan?
<foobarry> not with the kids
<foobarry> we have so many devices
<foobarry> sometimes the batteries stay there for years
<foobarry> and get passed on with the batteries still there
<foobarry> other things (wii) then i'm not organised enough to have a good supply
<daftykins> 7dayshop.com is always worth a look, used to be a local warehouse but i'm not sure what they do now
<daftykins> i've got some great 2900mAh AA's from them
<foobarry> use a lot of their stuff
<foobarry> for audio work i do
<foobarry> powering wireles mics etc
<daftykins> ah neat
<daftykins> we used to have LVCR or low value consignment relief, which was a loophole from the 80s to allow cheap flower export to England to be VAT free. Sadly it had been taken advantage of by etailers such as HMV and 7dayshop there... so the UK gov decided to kill it
<foobarry> sometimes you just need duracells to get you through 6 hrs of handheld mic though
<daftykins> overnight these companies packed up and moved to somewhere in Europe instead
<foobarry> what was the jersey based cd company?
<daftykins> play.com
<foobarry> cdwow?
<foobarry> and them too,
<foobarry> used to like play.com
<daftykins> mmm, it was good for a time
<foobarry> then they killed it
<foobarry> with 3rd party sellers
<foobarry> and probably the UK gov thing was at the same time then
<daftykins> i think there was a great decline beforehand, not sure on timing though
<daftykins> ooh my the main telco is rolling out 4G hardware
<daftykins> makes no difference to me :D
<foobarry> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Fujitsu-ScanSnap-S1300i-PC-MAC/dp/B008F05ND6
<foobarry> this looks cool
<foobarry> maybe a "nice to have"
<foobarry> rather than worth it though
<foobarry> chomps up magazines v quickly
<daftykins> heh
<foobarry> some guy is givign me a massive load of old scale modelling magz
<daftykins> i got a free printer with this cheap Lenovo laptop today, Canon Pixma iP2850
<foobarry> don't mind if its destructive scanning, but i want to archive them
<daftykins> magazine subscriptions?
<foobarry> of course the pilatesbay could help with newer stuff if i actaully own them
<foobarry> going back 10yrs or so
<foobarry> about 5 diffeerent magz
<foobarry> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZFQQ1a_KY-Y seems pretty quick process
<foobarry> unsure if i need a computer on , or i cuold send to my microserver
<daftykins> scanners that dump direct onto a network file share are great :D
<foobarry> yeah
<foobarry> ouch the network one is Â£350
<foobarry> also linux support is poor for the 1300i
<daftykins> :(
<daftykins> hmm grabbing a 14.04.2 ISO to throw on this flash drive then install beside Windows on this Lenovo :D
 * directhex moos
<daftykins> a wild hexy
<daftykins> good to see you on the ol' xbox one often, sir - whether it's yourself or wifey
<directhex> daftykins: the kinect can spy me in the kitchen
<zmoylan-pi> where the presence of a potential hot grease discourages nudity... :-)
<popey> i never use my xbox
<popey> always sam on it
<popey> so the avatar is now looking like him
<popey> i should figure out one day if we can both have an account on it and be on live and me not pay extra
<Myrtti> yes
<zmoylan-pi> and if you do ms will find a way to stop that :-)
<daftykins> i think there's some kind of family setup, not sure on the details though
<directhex> popey: as of xbox one, yes. xbox 360 no.
<popey> bummer
<daftykins> well this is novel, normally i'm the one shocked at people unable to get a machine to boot ubuntu over in #ubuntu - but this Lenovo is really proving difficult 0o
<zmoylan-pi> secure boot off, bios on
<zmoylan-pi> hammer raised :-)
<zmoylan-pi> oh is this the new security thingy lenovo do...
<zmoylan-pi> verified boot
<daftykins> i'll keep going through my flash drive collection, i don't think it liked that one
<daftykins> a win7 drive came up fine both EFI and legacy
<zmoylan-pi> a thingy lenovo calls boot guard
<NET||abuse> hi guys. has anyone here managed to get an IPSEC vpn connection setup in 14.10?
<NET||abuse> i'm not sure what route to take and google is showing some pretty gnarly guides in the results
<directhex> NET||abuse: server or client?
<NET||abuse> trying to connect from my laptop to the office
<NET||abuse> they gave me a networkconnect file (xml) and a document for mac connections..
<directhex> network-manager-strongswan installed?
<NET||abuse> tis now
<NET||abuse> somehow i didn't land on the askubuntu article..
<jpds> directhex / NET||abuse: n-m-strongswan is le broken.
<NET||abuse> ended up digging through a bunch of other old articles.
<NET||abuse> oh?
<jpds> NET||abuse: Yeah, n-m changed the API and broke the plugin.
<jpds> NET||abuse: Configuring it directly in /etc/ipsec.conf works though.
<NET||abuse> ok,, how dirty do i need to get my hands to do that?
<jpds> Depends.
<daftykins> well there's a useful comment ;)
<NET||abuse> if i've done "apt-get install strongswan network-manager-strongswan" do i need to change which packages i've installed.
<jpds> daftykins: ...on your IPsec knowledge.
<jpds> NET||abuse: Nope.
<jpds> NET||abuse: Is the other end a strongswan server?
<jpds> Ubuntu server with strongSwan*
<NET||abuse> not sure.
<NET||abuse> probably not
<NET||abuse> i'm trying to https port for the host specified.
<jpds> You should find that out.
<NET||abuse> i've no real way.
<jpds> Could be Cisco, Juniper, etc...
<NET||abuse> it's a government vpn, some closed up department
<jpds> Surely your local admin should be setting this up?
<daftykins> ok nope that was easy - system just didn't like the flash drive :) now it's bootable just dandy
<NET||abuse> they don't offer that service, and they certainly dont support linux
<zmoylan-pi> phew daftykins
<daftykins> now to consider whether 'install alongside Windows' or manual partitioning would be wisest
<popey> has that bug been fixed which wipes out windows?
<jpds> daftykins: Neither.
<jpds> Oh, wait, fixed: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/1265192
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 1265192 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Trusty) "Install/reinstall wipes out all/other partitions" [Critical,Fix released]
<daftykins> well i'm doing this a slightly cunning way
<daftykins> i've actually used windows 8 to backup the recovery, some files, deleted a wasteful partition then resized C:
<daftykins> so this 14.04.2 64-bit ISO just successfully offered to create root and swap in the space i had already created
<daftykins> but the point is i'm gonna document it for others :D so i can restore it to how it was if i naff up
<daftykins> oh dear i didn't realise 14.04.2 comes with the utopic HWE, no thank you
<directhex> non-lts HWE is ubuntu's solution to the "how to make LTS boot on new computers" issue
<directhex> which is a historical problem in ubuntu
<directhex> the alternative is backporting the world, which requires more engineer time
<directhex> e.g. red hat's kernels which say "i am version x" but have most of version x+7's features glued in
<daftykins> mmm, i've just seen it get messy for others when the HWE ends support, would rather just stay on 100% LTS
<daftykins> am i imagining it, or did Ubuntu or rather Ubiquity used to copy the data you created during a live session, in ~, to the new install?
<diddledan> ali1234, sorry, I'm about to post a graham clueless link.. everyone else, new ssl vuln: https://grahamcluley.com/2015/03/freak-attack-what-is-it-heres-what-you-need-to-know/
<popey> nope
<popey> http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2015/mar/04/crossy-road-mobile-game-10m-freemium
<shauno> 'new'  hehe
<diddledan> yeah well
<diddledan> newly announced
<daftykins> popey: was that a nope to me?
<popey> yes
<daftykins> thanks :>
<shauno> that's an interesting line, "Do you have an iPhone, an Android or a Mac OS X computer? It affects you."
<shauno> I just tried chrome & firefox on win7, both came up flagged.  I guess that's not as sexy though?
<daftykins> what's worse to me, is he says "On Android devices, make sure to use something else instead of the built-in Android Browser."
<shauno> sometimes it feels like editors go "nice article, but it doesn't mention apple.  go back and squeeze them in, kthxbye"
<daftykins> i think that depends on version 0o
<daftykins> hah
<daftykins> nothing like a good Apple bashing
<shauno> they've truely overtaken msft :)
<zmoylan-pi> aren't all alternate browsers on ios limited
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi, all alternative browsers on ios are just an apple-provided webview inside a wrapper app
<daftykins> used to be, the API was all that was available so you were basically just... ^
<daftykins> still remember the boss' kid saying "my friend made a BROWSER!" and i was saying no, no he really didn't.
<diddledan> lol
<zmoylan-pi> so would that make them more limited in terms of this new freak attack?
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/lpgq7krtmko3ysr/IMG_20150304_124348.jpg?dl=0
<daftykins> super cheap machine!
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi, it means that if the freak affects safari on ios then it affects all the other browsers too
<davmor2> \o/ ubuntu phones browser is safe from freakattack :D
<zmoylan-pi> and if apple did or does fix it how far back does that patch reach iphone 4's?
<popey> heh
<popey> just wipe it and put cyanoge... oh hang on
<diddledan> it might go as far back as the 4, more likely the 4S or even 5 minimum
<daftykins> the 4 vanilla didn't get iOS 8, but the 4S did - so probably only the S
<popey> I should wipe my 4S and give it to wifey
<popey> she's bumbling along with a 4
<daftykins> might be worth seeing how much 8.1.3 or whatever they're up to now, grinds it to a halt :D
<daftykins> hrmm Â£21 to double this little thing to 8GB RAM
<diddledan> doo eet
<diddledan> </arnie>
<popey> \o/ wiped iphone
<daftykins> right now the machine stands at Â£208 cost :D
<popey> what machine is it?
<diddledan> 229 sounds so much better
<popey> hah, neat, just got an email from apple saying find my iphone has been disabled now I wiped it
<daftykins> Lenovo B50-70, intel i3 4030U, 4GB RAM and 500GB HD
<popey> we need a find my ubuntu phone
<davmor2> popey: why it's alway on the desk in front of me ;)
<popey> that's your phone
<diddledan> I'm cold :-(
<popey> I want _my_ phone
<popey> daftykins: did it come with that superfish thing?
<diddledan> ooh, it's lunch time
<daftykins> popey: not sure, gonna wipe it anyway.
<diddledan> food ftw
<daftykins> likely put 7 on instead of 8, if it goes to mother
<diddledan> <norman bates> Yessss, mother!
<davmor2> diddledan: you're norman bates......quick arrest the psycho
<diddledan> speaking of mother - don't you love how in the original alien movie the computers are text-output
<zmoylan-pi> you'll need an ssd if she's in a rocking chair :-)
<directhex> diddledan: have you played Alien Isolation? they didn't update that at all - it's delightfully future-retro
<diddledan> .. and how they thought it would look more computery if the text appeared one character at a time
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/7t7n5llpq5dyuc7/AACsIO22uCVR3MUceENXe3yla?dl=0
<daftykins> http://paste.ubuntu.com/10526631/ - OEM machines are such a mess partitions wise :P
<popey> yeah
<zmoylan-pi> saves 1-2p on supplying recovery disks
<daftykins> now i have to wait ~28 days to ask for the Â£50 cashback from Lenovo
<daftykins> oh crap i see smoke outside
<daftykins> argh there's a courtyard behind my place so it's impossible to even work out what house/shop/office it's coming from
<daftykins> proper white stuff rising though O_O
<zmoylan-pi> evacuate just in case
<daftykins> well it's only me and the cat in mine ;)
<zmoylan-pi> unless the cat is smart and has already left the building in a calm relaxed manner
<daftykins> nope still sunning herself on the stairs
<daftykins> that's the life
<zmoylan-pi> find sunbeam and enter suspended animation...
<popey> i shut the door to the rest of the house, the cats are stuck in here with me
 * daftykins hears a chorus of scared miaows
<daftykins> oh my, 1pm already
<diddledan> daftykins, food!
<daftykins> indeed!
<daftykins> debating going out on a visit, too
<daftykins> now that i have finished playing with the toy, at least for now
<daftykins> the free printer it came with i'm not so excited about...
<zmoylan-pi> not big enough for cat to sleep on? :-)
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> it's not in direct sunlight right now ;)
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/5qvpm9jntf1rclt/IMG_20150304_131504.jpg?dl=0
<daftykins> it's a bit rude that Lenovo have a little security tape thing on the hard disk screw inside that laptop
<shauno> I know it's out of place, but a quick windows question .. any idea how to see what's accessing the disk?
<zmoylan-pi> it's so they can tell if it was repaired by a professional or an amateur.  the amateur will find a way to not disturb it whereas the professional will say sod that and rip it off :-)
<daftykins> shauno: task manager with added columns of IO
<shauno> ooh, these I've never spotted.  that should help :)
<daftykins> ^_^
<shauno> my work laptop keeps crawling.  absolutely crawling.  and you can hear the disk churning away when it does.  so I'm nosey
<daftykins> ooh-err, touching swap? er virtual memory... ;D
<popey> http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-31723029
<daftykins> ooh my not Rory
<diddledan> rory says "canonical, which basically runs ubuntu" <-- what happened to the huge volunteer developer community?
<popey> trolololol
<diddledan> the meizu mx4 looks nice, with a very slim bezel <3
<diddledan> I'm all about that bezel!
<diddledan> that bezel!
<diddledan> so. when's the ubuntu watch?
<diddledan> </troll>
<daftykins> 1st of Nevruary
<daftykins> Neveruary 0o
<zmoylan-pi> well you get a dogs collar and glue it to the back of your ubuntu phone.  remember watches have been getting huge in last few years :-)
<daftykins> diddledan: what's for lunch?
<diddledan> burger and chips when I go to the cafÃ©
<diddledan> I was just about to head out
<daftykins> :O a whole cafe lunch, crikey
<diddledan> take-away so I don't have to be without cpu-juice for too long
<daftykins> hehe
<diddledan> hey, it's my birthday, so I'm pushing the boat out :-p
<daftykins> really?
<diddledan> indeed
<daftykins> happy birthday sir!
<daftykins> what was it, 32, 33?
<diddledan> I'm now 32 (binary)
<zmoylan-pi> only a few years away from mid life crisis
<daftykins> ah yesh
<shauno> diddledan: you're now over 1 billion seconds old.  well done.
 * daftykins blows a party thingy at diddledan 
<diddledan> yeah, don't remind me - someone put a picture on facebook of the spice girls stating that it was 18 years ago
<daftykins> O_O
<shauno> (isnt' that a bit nuts.  1 million seconds is ~11 days.  1 billion seconds is ~1 diddledan.)
<daftykins> :D
<diddledan> someone replied saying they showed the picture to their 18year old daughter who asked "who are they?"
<daftykins> that's one lucky kid.
<diddledan> imagine the oodles of people alive now who don't know who blobby is!?!
<zmoylan-pi> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1983_in_the_United_Kingdom
<zmoylan-pi> the year cds went on sale in uk
<diddledan> tony blair became an mp in 83
<zmoylan-pi> wasn't all good then
<diddledan> clive sinclair received his knighthood in 83
<zmoylan-pi> first episode of blackadder \o/
<diddledan> \o/
<shauno> /o\
<zmoylan-pi> first episode of blockbusters.  can i have a p please bob
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi, down the hall on the right
<diddledan> yey, the first cruise missiles at greenham
<zmoylan-pi> best games of 1983.  spy hunter... atic atac... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IREp_YSXxIE
<diddledan> bbiab, food!
<daftykins> im' reading about this Dennis Nilsen chap 0o
<foobarry> mate of mine's dad was on who caught him
<foobarry> one*
<daftykins> oh wow
<daftykins> any ideas how they did it 0o
<daftykins> maybe i should just try and find that part
<daftykins> cor, it's way too dark reading about that
<daftykins> can't imagine having to deal with that for work O_O
<popey> http://liliputing.com/2015/03/zotac-introduces-steam-machine-sn970-gaming-pc.html
<diddledan> wow, that's .. I'm not sure how to describe it, daftykins
<diddledan> fun eating while reading that
<diddledan> popey, november is ages away
<diddledan> valve missed the obvious branding tho, steam machine would have been better as "steam engine"
<shauno> they already have an engine though, Source
<davmor2> diddledan: Locomotive
<diddledan> what's the difference between "windows 8.1" and "windows 8.1 with bing"?
<shauno> "with bing", I'd imagine :)
<zmoylan-pi> internet explorer is locked to bing seemingly.  a cheap windows licence for manufacturers to stop chromebooks i think was the idea.  didn't sell well
<foobarry> ugh
<zmoylan-pi> first thing you do is download firefox or chrome depending on your religion and you're grand :-)
<diddledan> it's a systembuilder thing - the license to builders is 0 based on the caveat that the oem can't also change the ie search engine to default google by signing a deal where google pay for that privilege
<diddledan> you can change the search engine yourself so in a way it's no different to non-oem-bundled editions of windows
<diddledan> ref: http://www.howtogeek.com/195934/what-exactly-is-windows-8.1-with-bing-do-i-have-to-use-bing/
<diddledan> oh, if anyone does ssl-on-a-server I'd like to recommend sslmate
<diddledan> it's a commandline automation of ssl certificate request and download from a ca
<diddledan> they also have a function in the cli app that will dump out configuratino for standard web servers
<diddledan> copy+paste is so much better than manually typing everything
<diddledan> and the config they dump follows best-practice in terms of cipher order and the like
<daftykins> mmm fresh croissant from pasty presto around the corner :D
<diddledan> yummy
<diddledan> that's one thing the french do well
<diddledan> bread + cakes
<diddledan> that's two things the french do well
<daftykins> :D
<diddledan> http://www.theverge.com/2015/3/4/8146729/british-government-approves-the-first-spaceport-in-europe
<zmoylan-pi> all too far north
<daftykins> yes, you are ;)
<diddledan> newquay is north?
<zmoylan-pi> north of the equator, yes
<diddledan> aah
<diddledan> well I suppose "lots of planets have a north" (according to 9)
<zmoylan-pi> http://www.qrg.northwestern.edu/projects/vss/docs/navigation/2-why-launch-from-equator.html
<diddledan> aah, you're talking about too far north for optimum launching. I assumed you were referring to travel time to get there
<zmoylan-pi> well that too, and the language barrier :-P
<diddledan> still, uk-to-aus in 2 hours sounds fun
<diddledan> of course that requires aus to build one, too
<zmoylan-pi> with an extra hour for security and waiting for your bag to be dug out of the ground after it broke lose
<foobarry> mmm jelly snakes
<shauno> woot, moar toys  *hugs postman*
<diddledan> ooh
<diddledan> whatcha bought
<shauno> all the rams
<shauno> more ram than I could ever use :)
<shauno> well, until I figure out bank switching
<shauno> I also found out what's hogging all the disk on my windows machine.  "mcafee process validation service" :(
<daftykins> :/
<daftykins> i'd be tempted to whip it off and reinstall, it could've gone funky from regular patching
<daftykins> i've seen that happen at times
<diddledan> shauno, what is your rams for?
<shauno> you fill it with numbers.  and then when you ask nicely, they come back out
<diddledan> err
<diddledan> which machine?
<diddledan> o_O
<shauno> oh.  I'm having fun sticking stuff to a z80 to see what happens
<diddledan> y'eejit :-p
<shauno> it's not so much 'a machine' at the moment
<diddledan> z80 with 32GB of rams sounds... interesting
<bashrc> overclocked
<shauno> heh.  I got a whole megabit of ram
<shauno> which is more than it can address, but it seems easier than buying small chips these days
<diddledan> it's probably easier to emulate
<shauno> where's the fun in that?
<diddledan> true, you can't show off an emulator and say "look at my frankenstein's monster!"
<diddledan> hint, apparently girls don't want to hear that on a first date
<daftykins> hrmm what was the old syntax, "sudo route add -net 10.0.1.0 netmask 255.255.255.0 dev eth0" sound about right?
<diddledan> yeah that looks close
<diddledan> maybe without -net
<diddledan> or maybe net without the dash
<diddledan> I only really need(ed) the default route
<diddledan> only ever(
<diddledan> **
<diddledan> which is `route add default via 192.168.x.y` or sometimes `route add default gw 192.168.x.y`
<diddledan> I didn't work out why one was used in some places and the other in others
<daftykins> mmm there's some guy in #ubuntu with multiple subnets today
<daftykins> it's all a bit odd :P
<diddledan> he's a weirdo
<daftykins> just someone trying to do things with something they've no experience of i think
<daftykins> so possibly all of us XD
<diddledan> I still say he's a weirdo
<daftykins> then you're a big meanie
<diddledan> hey, I resemble that remark!
<daftykins> XD
<diddledan> no, wait, I meant "resent"!
<shauno> which one?  big, meanie, or weirdo?
<diddledan> which one do I resemble or which one do I resent?
<shauno> yes
<diddledan> in that case then, all three :-p
<daftykins> organising a curry with you two would be unpossible
<shauno> well, I can see logistical issues.  we're all on different islands.
<daftykins> :)
<daftykins> we should all agree to have a curry, then swap who phones whos for the order
<daftykins> then leave a UUID for the collection name
<ali1234> dining cryptographers?
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> this little Lenovo is quite lovely then, but oh my word i can't stand using systems without an SSD, now
<diddledan> daftykins, I've got a difference in speed of my fastest ssd at 100MB/s to my slowest HDD at 1MB/s in the SAME SYSTEM!
<daftykins> that's a slow SSD and a very slow HDD :>
<daftykins> i take it that was made up?
<diddledan> yeah, the ssd was a conservative estimate
<diddledan> this is for extracting a zip to and from the same drive as a contrived test
<daftykins> ooh-err
<diddledan> a zip of linux-like file collection - i.e. a slew of loads of really tiny files and some big files
<diddledan> I think it was a zip of drush (the drupal shell) which contained a load of php files and php itself with all it's supporting libraries
<diddledan> 6Gb/s is max of about 500MB/s?
<daftykins> yip
<daftykins> but now there are lovely M.2 SSDs with PCI-E 2x connections, or higher
<diddledan> mmmmm, they sound tasty
<directhex> they're also tiny
<directhex> no 1T m.2 drives on the market
<daftykins> that's alright, there seems to be talk of upcoming boards having 2 or 3 slots O_O
<diddledan> http://go.bwlh.at/1w3oMCz
<daftykins> hah
<diddledan> then of course for speed-demons: http://go.bwlh.at/1w3ptLX
<daftykins> those are pretty ancient now though, and sandforce based
<daftykins> super unreliable controllers
<diddledan> if you happen to have a hole burning in your wallet: http://go.bwlh.at/1w3pXBV
<intrbiz> I have one of these, allows for 4xmsata - http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Lycom-PE-125-AHCI-6Gbps-RAID-4x-mSATA-Low-Profile-PCIe-2-0-Host-Adapter-/121431347857?pt=UK_Computing_ComputerComponents_InterfaceCards&hash=item1c45df5291
<daftykins> mSATA is old hat now ;)
<intrbiz> sure, but still lots of it around and I like the compat with sata controllers
<diddledan> does booting off a pcie work via the option-rom capability of bios?
<diddledan> e.g. like the way old scsi cards used to work
<directhex> the UEFI equivalent.
<diddledan> I don't got uefi
<daftykins> it only crops up on the modern platforms
<daftykins> if you got a card you'd likely be unable to boot from it
<directhex> actually the answer is "no"
<directhex> older cards present to the firmware as AHCI devices
<intrbiz> directhex: probably depends on the PCIe card in question, server boots off spinning rust
<directhex> so boot as such
<diddledan> I got one of those weird frankensteins that gigabyte put together that's a bios with a uefi shim that the bios loads
<directhex> newer devices present as NVMe, so require support for that
<directhex> i expect there'll never be NVMe support in BIOS compatibility layers
<daftykins> probably no great loss
<diddledan> this isn't bios compatibility - it is a true bios with efi compatibility
<directhex> yeah, i know
<directhex> my dad has one
<diddledan> it's evil!
<directhex> bricked his system when windows did a suspend
<daftykins> XD
<directhex> for his model, there was a beta "bios update" available which replaced it with real uefi
<diddledan> I wish I had waited until they version bumped the board to include efi
<daftykins> i'm glad i've skipped all that experimental period :>
<diddledan> I've got a GA-990FXA-UD5 (ver 1.0) - they released a successor, the version 3.0, which has uefi natively
<directhex> msi did their experimental period last decade
<directhex> "clickbios" boards from msi were uefi with mandatory bios compatibility years before anyone other than apple was doing uefi on x86
<diddledan> yeah I bricked one of those
<directhex> gigabyte invested a lot of time/money into adding clicky GUI stuff into their BIOS instead, hence "hybrid EFI" compatibility layer on top of BIOS
<daftykins> lets give TV licensing another go
<zmoylan-pi> if you get rid of the licence fee for the bbc you'd end up with american tv 24x7
<daftykins> managed to tell them i don't need one \o/
<daftykins> i don't watch any of it so... :D
<shauno> it sounds like they're trying to go the same way as ireland wants to - a universal fee
<Myrtti> Finland moved into a TV tax everyone needs to pay
<zmoylan-pi> they're moving to everyone pays in ireland.  the blind aren't exempt last i heard which has them a little miffed
<daftykins> XD
<Myrtti> well it used to be tv licence but moved into "FBC tax" which more obviously funds the radio too.
<daftykins> i did hear they tax all forms of internet connection above a given speed in either Denmark or the Netherlands
<zmoylan-pi> they're trying that angle i think in ireland but irish radio is given buttons of the fee
<zmoylan-pi> mind in dublin they switched off the audio cues on pedestrian crossings as sighted people complained that it confused them.  they didn't tell anyone and switched them all off in one weekend which was fun for blind pedestrians on the monday
<Myrtti> I value the FBC radio more than their tv
<shauno> I get more out of bbc radio than TV too.  and their website
 * zmoylan-pi is fan of irish radio and gets a fair few podcasts from them
<daftykins> does the 'pod' bit come from 'ipod' ? 0o
<shauno> but the odd position in ireland is that I get much more out of the bbc than rte.  while makes the tv licence just feel silly
<shauno> *which
<zmoylan-pi> i think the pod in podcast was originally for ipods but now most people i know that use podcasts _don't_ use iphones or ipods
<bashrc> I don't pay much attention to the beeb these days. Very occasionally I might be drawn to some news article on their web site, but that's about it
<Myrtti> I love channel 4 podcasts
<zmoylan-pi> the bbc world service is a far better potential weapon against extremists in afghanistan/pakistan than any troops ever sent if used right
<shauno> radio4 is a bedtime ritual for me
<shauno> except when they put cricket on instead of closing.  then I get woke up by the automated dude that tells me they don't have the rights to broadcast it online
<zmoylan-pi> better than having to listen to cricket :-)
<shauno> they should just cut to the worldservice like they usually do at close.  instead of 4 hours of this guy telling me why they didn't
<daftykins> :(
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<shauno> O di like the world service too.  but the version they have online has a strong african theme  (I believe they broadcast different schedules around the world, and only stream one)
<shauno> so, eg, I know who won the africa cup of nations this year.  and why it was moved to equatorial guinea  lol
<shauno> wow.  my typing is fantastic today.
<zmoylan-pi> you can fly the irish tri colour upside down and support ivory coast \o/
<bigcalm> At the office and have a shiny new Dell XPS 8700. Of course it's come with win 8.1 and I need to scrub it off. Trying to get Ubuntu 14.04 to install but it's not seeing the HDD. Any thoughts?
<shauno> the irish flag upsdie down is still the irish flag :)  you need to staple the wrong side to the mast to flip it
<bigcalm> The HDD is showing up in gparted, but not in the installer
<bigcalm> directhex: have you been able to dual boot a win 8.1 machine that's using secure boot and uefi?
<directhex> sure.
<diddledan> daily fail today leads with the story of how jihadi john is actually an evil man because he spent 20 years on benefits
<diddledan> https://twitter.com/kevinbridges86/status/573037483329527808/photo/1
<diddledan> anywho, I'm off for a bit
<diddledan> tata
<bigcalm> directhex: how? :D
<directhex> bigcalm: same way as without secure boot, in the case of ubuntu (which uses a signed bootloader)
<bigcalm> directhex: so leave it all using secure boot and uefi, boot from a USB stick with Ubuntu 14.04.2 on it and let it work magic?
<directhex> yeah.
<bigcalm> Looking in gparted at the harddrive, there are multiple existing partitions because it's Dell. gparted even complained that GPT was in the wrong place and offered to fix it for me - I ignored it
<bigcalm> Okay, I'll try again
<directhex> the partition thing is likely a recovery partition thing being insane
<bigcalm> Yes
 * bigcalm drums his fingers
<bigcalm> If leave the system using secure boot, grub appears when the USB stick is plugged in. But selecting any option results in a black screen and nothing else. This is the case for all HDMI and DVI ports.
<bigcalm> Disabling secure boot results in getting further
<bigcalm> As in, the normal desktop system loads as expected
<bigcalm> But the HDD is not detected by the installer
<directhex> hmmmmmmmmm
<directhex> this doesn't sound like secure boot behaviour... how recent is it?
<directhex> old GPU?
<bigcalm> It's brand new from Dell. Arrived today
<bigcalm> http://www.dell.com/uk/p/xps-8700/pd?oc=cdx8727&model_id=xps-8700
<directhex> firmware update available?
<directhex> a10 is current
<bigcalm> I've not booted into Windows to find out :)
<bigcalm> It's using A09
<bigcalm> I'll go through the Windows set-up and see about getting a firmware update
<daftykins> i'd leave off 14.04.2 since it uses the utopic HWE
<popey> that makes no sense.
<popey> on a brand new machine, it makes way more sense to have a later kernel
<directhex> daftykins: you mean a modern kernel? that's a positive, not a negative, for HW support
<popey> especially dell stuff
<popey> where they ship consumer devices with bleeding edge hardware
<daftykins> i guess so, but does mean that when utopic dies you have to keep faffing with the upgrades
<bigcalm> Should I try using 14.10 then?
<daftykins> well they're saying ignore me, so up to you :D
<popey> bigcalm: no, 14.04 imo
<bigcalm> Good. I want LTS on work machines
<daftykins> i've just seen too many crying in #ubuntu when HWEs die
<popey> HWEs don't "die"
<daftykins> you know what i mean
<popey> no, I flat out don't
<daftykins> or if not, it should be pretty obvious
<daftykins> mmm you've used those words before
<popey> i don't know what you're talking about
<daftykins> when the release the HWE comes from falls out of support
<daftykins> e.g. when raring died so the 3.15 kernel and xorg on precise became EOL
<daftykins> er, hmm no 3.5
<daftykins> clear as mud? :D
<popey> I don't see the issue, you update to the next HWE stack
<popey> and get new shiny
<daftykins> yeah but all the tools to do so are a mess quite frankly
<popey> never had a problem with it personally
<daftykins> last time it happened there was a mix of output for people coming into #ubuntu - the verbose hwe-support-status command which i forget right now would say they were EOL but not tell them what to do to resolve it
<daftykins> bigcalm: amusingly i was just doing what you're doing, albeit with a Lenovo
<diddledan> evening
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<diddledan> quiet in here tonight
<Myrtti> don't yinx it
 * m0nkey_ bangs his pots and pans
<m0nkey_> LOUD ENOUGH FOR YOU?! :-P
#ubuntu-uk 2015-03-05
<diddledan> wow, this page is really bad: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/Gallery/Members
<diddledan> right, so january 9th 2013 is the next uuk irc meeting for procedural stuffs - teeny bit overdue methinks
<diddledan> I found that tidbit here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/LastMeeting
<diddledan> czajkowski, your nick reverted!
<diddledan> that's scary, czajkowski is claiming to be skynet
<diddledan> i.e. ~cypher@skynet.skynet.ie
<diddledan> anyone awake yet?
<mapp> hey
<mapp> im just back;p
<diddledan> allo
<mapp> whats up
<mapp> ;]
<diddledan> not much - fixing some things in long-forgotten projects on launchpad - https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-drupal-theme
<mapp> a new scsi
<mapp> csi:cyber
<mapp> hm
<mapp> you mustve seen http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-31711446
<mapp> coo pic eh
<diddledan> yeah, saw that on facebook earlier
<diddledan> thanks for reminding me about csi:cyber - I've just checked and my downloader has already god it
<diddledan> got*
 * diddledan watching now
<mapp> let me know whether its worth watching
<mapp> and il grab it:)
<diddledan> it's Dawson from Dawson's creek
<mapp> he's in it?!?
<diddledan> unless I've got the wrong face
<diddledan> is patricia arquette, too
<diddledan> the guy I think is dawson is james van der beek
<diddledan> I know the name and I know the face but I still can't say for certain it's dawson
<mapp> hm
<mapp> yea james van der beek is him
<diddledan> well done me! \o/
<mapp> time for sunny in philly
<mapp> ho watch it so i know if it's good;p
<mapp> diddledan ?:)
<diddledan> it was rather fast and disjointed
<diddledan> they managed to solve a case in what seemed like half a day
<diddledan> and they guessed a 20 digit numeric password in a couple of seconds when confronted with tattoos on four separate men with the numbers divided into dates in the tattoos
<mapp> is i worth watching?
<mapp> *it
<mapp> diddledan
<diddledan> depends if you're expecting something other than a standard police procedural that eschews any actual thinking
<MooDoo> morning all
<diddledan> allo
<czajkowski> diddledan: skynet is all knwowing :)
<davmor2> czajkowski: your back as cz<tab> \o/
<davmor2> Morning all
<davmor2> bigcalm: how was the oddfellows
<czajkowski> davmor2: aye for the time being :)
<davmor2> czajkowski: whens the date?
<czajkowski> not decided yet.
<czajkowski> need to narrow down country :)
<Laney> may I suggest uzbekistan
<diddledan> good suggestion
<diddledan> any istan would suffice tho
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<bigcalm> davmor2: quieter - we got to have conversations without shouting
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy World Book Day! :-D
<diddledan> who needs books when we have 1) IRC, 2) wikipedia
<diddledan> 3) TEH GOOGLES
 * davmor2 grabs his heaviest book covers it with happy minion paper â 1 happy book
<zmoylan-pi> because irc, wikipedia and google are susceptible to rewriting history.  the printed word is not perfect but is hard to change when previous copies persist
<JamesTait> And I can't throw IRC at someone.
<MartijnVdS> JamesTait: you could throw an IRC *server* at someone
<zmoylan-pi> one with redundant power supplies for more... impact
<JamesTait> MartijnVdS, I could, but then I'd be mourning the loss of the hardware.  Books might crease a little bit, but they still work.
<zmoylan-pi> and the battery life of books is excellent
<MartijnVdS> JamesTait: also, paper cuts :)
<zmoylan-pi> and it's far easier to loan a physical book to someone than an ebook
<JamesTait> MartijnVdS, I've sliced my hands open on the insides of enough servers over the years.
<diddledan> I hate servers for the slicing of hands
<diddledan> they're evil!
<MartijnVdS> JamesTait: yeah, same. stupid metal!
<diddledan> thing is you don't notice when you do it - it's when you've stopped doing it that the pain begins
<diddledan> and blood
<JamesTait> It's quite often the next morning in the shower, or later the same day when I'm washing the dishes, that I find myself thinking "Oh, that's sore - I wonder what I did that on."
<MartijnVdS> that's what you get for using bleeding-edge hardware
<diddledan> ba dum tsh
<zmoylan-pi> don't forget your tetanus shots
<zmoylan-pi> in lieu of tipping your waitress...
<MartijnVdS> zmoylan-pi: .. just the tip?
<zmoylan-pi> did you not see reservoir dogs?!
<MartijnVdS> ah yes
<MartijnVdS> Americans and their weird habits
<popey> haha, world book day!
<popey> Sophie, Sam and Clare all went to school dressed up today
<MartijnVdS> as books?
<zmoylan-pi> but all the second hand book shops in my town are gone...
<SuperMatt> are ubuntu phones available to buy right now?
<popey> SuperMatt: only via flash sales
<popey> MartijnVdS: as characters from books
<SuperMatt> thanks popey
<MartijnVdS> popey: did you see? The Burger King at Schiphol runs Ubuntu on its video/ad screens :)
<popey> haha, no.
<MartijnVdS> popey: I posted a picture to g+
<popey> will look
<zmoylan-pi> if you want to avoid bsod or weird windows error/update messages it seems like a safe bet
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<MartijnVdS> zmoylan-pi: yeah, purple grub screens are WAY nicer ;)
<SuperMatt> I'd really like to know when the next flash sale is happening
<zmoylan-pi> purple is a calming colour :-)
<Guest46118>  /join #syncthing
<diddledan> willdo
<zmoylan-pi> you shouldn't listen to 46118, they're just bitter since 46117 left
<bigcalm> davmor2: where were you last night?
<davmor2> bigcalm: meeting
<popey> lies, he was knitting
<bigcalm> Heh
<zmoylan-pi> he was knitting in a meeting
<zmoylan-pi> so at least it was productive :-)
<bigcalm> It's March, where's my Ubuntu Phone?
<popey> It's also Chinese new year
<popey> so "not manufactured yet" is probably accurate
<zmoylan-pi> so your shipped phone will be super fresh :-)
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: don't say super and a word that begins with F after people will read it as super fish :D
<zmoylan-pi> hmmm super fish.... tomorrow is friday... cod and chips...
<popey> mmmmm fish
<popey> i had fish last night, just to mix things up a bit
<zmoylan-pi> the sting of vinegar in your nostrils...
<popey> tartare
<czajkowski> so need my phone to arrive current one decides to reboot itself for no reason lately
<foobarry> dropping phones tend to do that
<zmoylan-pi> nonsense, i've dropped my nokia dumbphone 100s of times and have only managed to damage the ground :-P
<diddledan> to be fair to foobarry, your nokia dumbphone is completely devoid of functionality to begin with so you'd not notice if it didn't work
<diddledan> :-p
<foobarry> brick dropped onto brick
<zmoylan-pi> email, irc, ebooks, games, web, mp3s, radio.
<foobarry> quand la pierre tombe sur l'oeuf, pauvre oeuf. quand l'oeuf tombe sur la pierre, pauvre oeuf
<diddledan> half past eleven
<zmoylan-pi> gort, klatu barada niktu
<diddledan> march 5th
<diddledan> have we finished being random yet?
<foobarry> who's being ranodm
 * zmoylan-pi shakes magic 8-ball.  try again later
<diddledan> you with your oofs and zmoylan-pi with his gordon nikita
<foobarry> it was a relevant proverb
<diddledan> no, it was random jibberish :-p
<foobarry> whent he phone falls on the stone, poor phone. when the stone falls on the phone, poor phone
<zmoylan-pi> when it's a nokia, look out planet :-)
<diddledan> I thought oeufs were eggs
<foobarry> nope, definitely phones
<NET||abuse> I was listening to a podcast in the last few weeks. probably a jupiterbroadcastingone,, and there was mention of perhaps syncthing, not always reliably syncing all the files in a share
<NET||abuse> does anyone remember anything on the topic?
<NET||abuse> just wondering how reliable my syncthing setup is going to be longterm
<NET||abuse> unless i was mistaken and it was another tool being mentioned? maybe it was actually btsync that had the issue?
<popey> yeah, i heard that too
<popey> i haven't seen that problem with syncthing but i dont sync massive files with it
<diplo> No issues here either, although I sync a fairly small amount compared to others so far
<NET||abuse> i'm syncing PIctures and Documents folder right now.
<diplo> But I sync to and from my phone ( pics and music ) and pics / calibre from my server to pc's / laptops
<NET||abuse> so i'm up at about 15GB of stuff between those two
<NET||abuse> i'll be doing a one way backup of my dev folder going back 2 years, that'll be about 40/45GB
<NET||abuse> ooh, there maybe vm images in that folder, i might not want to do that.
<diplo> Can use .stignore
<diplo> To ignore the vms
<NET||abuse> wonder if there's a nice way to list out recursively the files in a directory tree and sort by largest
<diplo> I'm going to start syncing my dads PC back to mine soon
<NET||abuse> find . -printf '%s %p\n'|sort -nr|head
<NET||abuse> that show'd up a couple of mysql dumps, ibd files and graylog_centos65_vagrant.box
<NET||abuse> hah
<NET||abuse> so there's definately a few big files to work through ignoreing
<NET||abuse> just found a few >1GB files in my DOcuments folder which i'm already syncing
<NET||abuse> a 2.5GB, a 1.5GB and a 1.2G
<NET||abuse> couple of large files, few hundred MB files of rpm's and tar.gz's,, informix drivers ,, hahah
<diplo> I sync specific directories rather than everything :)
<NET||abuse> ahh,
<NET||abuse> i've gone for the "I need a backup of my old laptop" approach,
<diplo> Created new ones for my mobile and made new ones for other areas and sorted the rest out and moved them into said directories
<diplo> So having a tidy up at the same time
<NET||abuse> only went as fine grained as /home/me/Documents,  /home/me/Pictures, /home/me/.ssh
<NET||abuse> wonder what else i should grab.
<diplo> I've done /home/andy/Mobile/{music,pics} and /home/andy/Calibre Library etc
<diplo> Hadn't thought about .ssh directory though, quite like that idea
<NET||abuse> yeh, i figure it's a good move to keep that sync'd between machines
<NET||abuse> turns out though i can't hit the server (nat forwarded using a no-ip.org dns address)from the office network, port 22000 seems to be blocked
<NET||abuse> had issues with irc too
<NET||abuse> wondering if i'll have to ssh tunnel and override hosts file.
<NET||abuse> oh, how do i hcange the port on the connection though
<NET||abuse> ahh, you can just to ip:port
<diplo> I'd advise starting small though NET||abuse :) Just in case you get something wrong
<NET||abuse> hnmm, local forwarding doesn't seem to want to work for me
<NET||abuse> is it udp by anycchnace.
<NET||abuse> ok, running for lunch.
<NET||abuse> brb
<davmor2> Wow http://awesomejelly.com/mans-acoustic-version-acdcs-thunderstruck-will-blow-mind/
<shauno> nicely done.  but I fear I can't hear thunderstuck without mentioning flaming bagpipes anymore; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_e5J116IM6M
<diddledan> I prefer flaming galahs
<diddledan> ref: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galah#Cultural_references
<diddledan> wow, crocodile dundee is 75!
<zmoylan-pi> with the skin tone of 150 :-)
<shauno> diddledan: so, this is what I say to your emulation :)  http://i.imgur.com/4ssxl3g.jpg
<zmoylan-pi> z80 chips?
<shauno> yummy, eh?
 * zmoylan-pi hopes fuzixos gets to be usable... https://github.com/EtchedPixels/FUZIX
<davmor2> shauno: this is still my favourite version https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uT3SBzmDxGk
<diddledan> I call shenanigans
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: "Hello, Shenanigan's?"
<diddledan> :-)
<MartijnVdS> sounds like a good name for a restaurant
<diddledan> it does!
<diddledan> or a gaybar
<MartijnVdS> or a joke shop
<diddledan> lol
<foobarry> irish bar
<popey> POTATO!
<marshmn> hi, could anyone tell me what date 10.04 LTS support ends? is it exactly 5 years from the original release date? or end of April? or something else?
<foobarry> server or desktop?
<foobarry> !eol
<lubotu3> End-Of-Life is the time when security updates and support for an Ubuntu release stop, see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Releases for more information. Looking to upgrade from an EOL release? See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/EOLUpgrades
<popey> its roughly 5 years. often it's a few weeks later than the release
<marshmn> ok thanks
<shauno> it's usually a good idea to beat them to it though, as they shuffle it off the main mirrors which just adds more complications  (not big ones, but still)
<marshmn> given that 10.04 LTS was released 29th April 2010, does that mean I can rely on it being no sooner than 29th April 2015?
<marshmn> I agree we don't want to wait that long
<marshmn> I'm just getting asked the question by clients and want to be accurate in my reply
<diddledan> moo
<diddledan> sorry, I got that wrong, it should be "m00"
<diddledan> I've got good launchpad karma today
<diddledan> I'm on 273
<popey> \o/
<popey> almost as good as the 10 million i had back in 2006 :)
<diddledan> lol
<popey> wish I'd got a screenshot of it
<diddledan> I'm not sure I'll ever be half as awesome as you, popey
<popey> You know it.
<Laney> write a script to close some obsolete bug tasks or something
<shauno> odd question, but what did you do before ubuntu, popey ?
<popey> SAP
<diddledan> eep
<shauno> hm.  that explains a lot ;)
<popey> haha
<popey> 10 years I did SAP
<popey> maybe more
<shauno> so you weren't actually normal, you just traded one madness for another
<shauno> an odd move though.  most people transition from SAP to alcoholism
<shauno> so I guess you won :)
<MartijnVdS> from SAP to "aww, poor sap"
<shauno> I just followed jdub over because the guy he left running garnome was a bit odd
<shauno> so most the names I ever recognised were from debian
<MartijnVdS> garnome?
<shauno> it was a build system for gnome2
<MartijnVdS> oh that thing, I think I remember :)
<MartijnVdS> way back
<shauno> there was jhbuild that built from cvs, garnome that built from released tarballs, and then debian packages that were archiac because debian was stuck in a strange dry spell
<MartijnVdS> Debian potato famine ;)
<shauno> yeah.  they kinda forgot how to release for a while
<diddledan> lol
<MartijnVdS> (actually it was woody->sarge)
<MartijnVdS> (though potato->woody was a long wait too)
<shauno> that sounds about right, because potato I had on CDs, so I would have still been in the UK
<shauno> (The scary old days when it was quicker to order CDs from thelinuxemporium than to download them)
 * diddledan sniggers cos MartijnVdS said woody. many times.
<diddledan> shauno, I remember those times
<diddledan> shauno, I bought loads off there for a while
<MartijnVdS> shauno: I made do with "minimal" boot floppies and installed from the mirror :)
<diddledan> mandrake, redhat 7, debian, I'm sure others
<MartijnVdS> (yay working for an ISP)
<shauno> I think I just got potato from there.  redhat I got from a book (?)
<MartijnVdS> I started waay back on slackware, with kernel 2.0.30
<shauno> I had slack 3.3.  on floppies.  lots and lots of floppies.  dark times.
<MartijnVdS> I think I had 3.3 as well
<shauno> I have no idea why so many floppies, because I only had enough drive space to install the 'A' ones
<MartijnVdS> 3.3 and 3.4 were released with 2.0.30
<shauno> I only remember this because it was the only distro I could find that'd let me use two floppies drives instead of one and a ramdisk
<MartijnVdS> I remember breaking the system by installing a new libc (libc5 -> libc6 transition? with new gcc and everything)
<shauno> (for installation, that is)
<shauno> most would copy the installer into a ramdisk so you could eject the first disk.  my 386 had 3meg of ram, so this was a no-go
<shauno> important lesson learnt - if you ever find yourself in this situation, don't be sentimental, just bin the machine
<MartijnVdS> run it as a VM ;)
<MartijnVdS> (I installed warty in a VM a few months ago.. wow that we put up with stuff like that! :P)
<shauno> lol, it wasn't that bad
<MartijnVdS> shauno: scrolling text boot screens
<MartijnVdS> (I remember the Mataro "UDS" (it wasn't called that) where Paul Sladen started to write a seamless boot thing)
<shauno> I mean, it wasn't great, but considering that before that I had ximian gnome 1.4 & self-built gnome 2.0 on debian
<MartijnVdS> and (years before pulse), a session on fixing audio
<shauno> so warty was fun because they'd done all that for me
<MartijnVdS> ah yes, that's also one of the reasons I switched
<MartijnVdS> the other one was *actual releases*
<shauno> I was just easy to impress at that point.  not having to build evolution was ftw
<shauno> or firefox :/
<shauno> building firefox is a sure-fire way to destroy rose-tinted specs
<MartijnVdS> and a new kernel every week
<shauno> see, the kernel didn't bother me.  or the stupid nvidia drivers (once I figured out the installer took --options to automate it)
<shauno> but ff is a beast
<MartijnVdS> shauno: a coworker of mine switched from Gentoo to Ubuntu when he had to re-build OpenOffice for the 3rd time in 1 week because of some missing compile option :)
<ali1234> i was a gentoo user before ubuntu as well
<popey> dont think i ever touched gentoo
<ali1234> the compiling never bothered me
<popey> friend of mine used it on servers
<foobarry> sack him
 * shauno looks at diddledan 
<popey> because it supported multiple libraries installed in parallel by default or something
<BigRedS> I spent a long time concerned that I was due a slackware phase, but I'm relatively convinced now that I'm far too lazy for that to ever happen
<foobarry> and it takes a week to deploy a server
<shauno> I've never touched gentoo either.  pretty much all I ever knew of it was the jokes about ricers
<ali1234> the biggest problem with gentoo was always that they just throw the newest version of everything in the repo without testing if it actually works
<popey> same with arch
<foobarry> if arch was a real thing
<BigRedS> I think they view that as a feature, though
<shauno> all I know of arch is that they seem to have better rpi documentation than rpi do :)
<foobarry> yeah, arch is a wiki not a distro ;)
<ali1234> arch has better documentation than ubuntu
<BigRedS> I'm farily convinced that at point in time only one linux distro may have good documentation. Some limit imposed by the universe
<BigRedS> and it's currently arch
<popey> yeah, their wiki is what the ubuntu wiki used to be
<shauno> ubuntu's documenation always bothers me.  particularly the server guide.  it always feels like someone just replaced the version numbers from the last LTS.  and the LTS before it ..
<popey> yeah, docteam is moribund imo
<shauno> it's quite annoying, because now we get people showing up in -server because they followed some 'mailservers for people who can't spell mailserver' blog post (or worse, youtube video!) and can't quite get it working
<diplo> Digital Ocean and Linode have called how to's and they pay people to write them
<diplo> Maybe an incentive for the Ubuntu one :)
<BigRedS> If they're documenting the same thing why duplicate the effort?
<ali1234> the lack of quality ubuntu documentation appear to be intentional
<ali1234> the page about kernel compilation is a great example
<ali1234> 2/3rds of it is devoted to "why you shouldn't recompile your own kernel"
<popey> nah, it's written by developers
<popey> or opinionated doc writers :)
<ali1234> and the rest is "just do it the same way as debian!"
<shauno> I'm surprised the server guide doesn't just have banner-ads for Ubuntu Advantage
<shauno> and I mean that in a "it probably should" way
<diplo> BigRedS, because it would feel 'safer' if it was hosted on the official ubuntu server guide ?
<shauno> although I do fear if they actually tried to update the docs, the mailserver guide would start with "deploy openstack onto your maas cluster. then launch a couple of postfix charms with juju .."
<diddledan> shauno, aye they don't seem to cater for small one-man-bands so much anymore
<shauno> I'm not actually sure they were ever trying to.  they were just convenient for a while because, as MartijnVdS pointed out, they actually had releases
<shauno> being able to guess when the next release was, and how long this release is supported for, was the main reason I had ubuntu on VMs
<diddledan> of course this does raise the question. wth am I not in #ubuntu-server?!
<diddledan> *fixed
<Myrtti> at least in one point the atmosphere there was downright toxic, and the mission of the channel was unclear - is it for developers of Ubuntu Server, or for user support.
<diplo> That's why I left Myrtti
<Myrtti> dunno if it has changed since, I've not been for at least a year
<Myrtti> if not more
<diplo> More developer stuff than anything else imo
<foobarry> diplo: on grammar day of all days
<foobarry> < diplo> That's why I left Myrtti
<foobarry> you lost your comma and made myrrti your partner
<foobarry> ex-partner
<diplo> :)
<shauno> I'm still in there because I can actually be helpful - most the 'regulars' are discussing openstack packaging, so it's quite easy for me to grab low-hanging fruit that they'll happily ignore
<shauno> but the developer/user balance is a bit strange.  it does feel like it's more developers, but I've never seen anyone suggest a more appropriate avenue for user support
<diplo> I'd prefer to see it separated to be honest
<shauno> it used to be.  then they rolled #ubuntu-cloud in.  I'm still not sure why
<shauno> but then the mail list is dead too.  perhaps the users simply don't exist
<diplo> yeah, I'm still on the mailing list.. I was wondering if I was signed up to the wrong one :)
<shauno> I mean, the main advantage of -server now *is* all the openstack-y stuff, and no-one touches that without paying consultants
<bashrc> it's important to have users
<diplo> I want some hardware to play with that shauno, also like to play with maas and juju
<Myrtti> lessons in buying stuff on Amazon or eBay from China. ordered http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00CGVDLLQ on 20th of October, and they landed on the hallway floor this morning.
<shauno> yeah.  I've tried to play with it, but with only one machine.  which doesn't seem to be a well-supported method :)
<shauno> (redhat's rdo stuff does better on that scale.  ubuntu really expects you to start openstack with at least a small handful of boxes)
<diplo> No, I asked about that last year... I'd love to be able to do it on a single machine
<diplo> I've asked work for some nucs or something and a microserver or a cheap 1u
<shauno> redhat's answer to openstack on one machine is to add --allinone to the setup.  ubuntu's is "don't do that"
<shauno> seriously, I'm no fan of redhat, but "packstack --allinone" vs the instructions you'll see anywhere else is somewhat astounding
<BigRedS> oh, I thought half the point of cloudstack was that it required a team of dedicated engineers in order to deploy it
<BigRedS> some sort of job-security wheeze from the developers
<shauno> yeah, that's exactly what I mean by everyone needing paid consultants
<shauno> it's almost Oracle-esque.  "the little guy" simply doesn't exist
<shauno> speaking of amazon, I'm slightly miffed that an order I placed before lunch on tuesday hasn't even shipped yet :(
<diddledan> shoulda gone prime :-p
<shauno> prime makes no difference for ireland :(
<diddledan> isn't the warehouse in ireland tho?
<shauno> (it also doesn't affect their dispatch time.  I've paid for 2-3 day shipping.  'shipping' starts once it's out the door.)
<diddledan> monday earliest then
<shauno> their warehouses appear to be everywhere
<shauno> of the parts they have sent, one is coming from GRIMBERGEN (and is now in france, so I assume that's germany-ish), another's coming from Fife.
<shauno> and the part that already arrived came from luton
<shauno> (luton to shannon via koln  lol)
<shauno> I'm just grumpy because I timed it around my days off work, so I'd be here when it's delivered.  so not dispatching it the same week has thrown a spanner in the works
<ThomasRedstone> Amazon stuff comes from all over the place, I ordered a load of books at once, and it came in 4 deliveries! 3 different couriers I think as well
<shauno> heh, yeah, I'm doing three different couriers too.  ups, i-parcel & regular suface post
<diddledan> omg systemd is landing in vivid?!
<diddledan> I thought it would miss this cycle
<ThomasRedstone> and there are 3 classes of seller, Amazon, 3rd party, fulfilled by Amazon, and 3rd party!
<ThomasRedstone> Oddly, I'm just trying to get my application running on Amazon Elastic Beanstalk :-)
<bashrc> which one is vivid?
<diddledan> bashrc, the iminent one
<bashrc> \o/
<diddledan> i.e. 15.04
<bashrc> so systemd and unit 8 ?
<NET||abuse> how difficult is it to put a few desktops on a 14.10 install? on 14.04 i installed gnome and it was ppa's and some conflicts between unity and gnome, what are the options to add gnome or MATE or anything else?
<bashrc> s/unit/unity
<NET||abuse> has anyone tried adding alternate desktops on a default 14.10 install here?
<NET||abuse> nope? ok,
<ThomasRedstone> NET||abuse, not too bad, I use Cinamon on 14.10
<NET||abuse> did you start with a default unity install and add cinamon?
<ThomasRedstone> yeah, it just worked right away I think, no messing around
<ThomasRedstone> I think I did follow a tutorial though, so perhaps the messing around was part of the plan, so I don't remember it :-)
<NET||abuse> :)
<NET||abuse> not sure what i'll do, considering MATE as it just seems to be winning alot lately.
<NET||abuse> faster than xfce aparently
<NET||abuse> and the new laptop (xps13 2015) is awesome and fast enough, but i'm curious to see how it behaves with an even lighter desktop like MATE
<bashrc> a lot of people seem to like MATE
<NET||abuse> and also compare the newer gnome3 to unity
<NET||abuse> readng around on webupd8.org, they say there are definately a few artifacts introduced to both gnome and unity with a side by side install.
<davmor2> NET||abuse: you should just be able to install the desktop package for that environment,  gnome and unity will likely have issues but should be more harmonious in later version of ubuntu
<NET||abuse> yup, that's what i'm reading.
<treb0r> hi chaps
<popey> word
<treb0r> Do you think I should get a hidpi screen on my new laptop to run Ubuntu?
<treb0r> On the brink of ordering a Dell m3800
<treb0r> Not sure if I should shell out for a QHD screen. I intend to use this laptop for at least 5 years so i want it to be top spec
 * treb0r watches the tumbleweeds roll through the deserted streets of #ubuntu-uk
 * DJones sets fire to the tumbeleweed before they get to treb0r so they're not seen
<ali1234> buying lego on ebay is too addictive
<ali1234> you can buy single parts
<ali1234> just one more piece...
<diddledan> a kernel hacker and the software freedom conservency are jointly suing vmware over gpl violations
<treb0r> is it always this quiet in here these days?
<diddledan> treb0r, it varies
<diddledan> ok
<Laney> aww I wanted to chew in treb0r but he's not here
<diddledan> Laney, sucks!
<diddledan> literally!
<Laney> on*
 * Laney diddles dan
<Laney> wait
<Laney> your nickname is rude
<diddledan> oh myyy
<diddledan> only if you have a certain mindset is it rude :-p
<Myrtti> tada
<diddledan> \o/
<diddledan> ello Myrtti
<diddledan> wb treb0r
<Myrtti> ello diddledan
<daftykins> evening all
<daftykins> i return from an evening of spending someone elses money :D a fine hobby i might add
<diddledan> yey. it's that daft one!
<daftykins> \o/
<daftykins> sure is
<daftykins> 8 x 4TB WD Reds purchased
<diddledan> :-o
<diddledan> that's OTT
<diddledan> WAY OTT
 * diddledan counts.
<diddledan> that's 32TB!
<DJones> Thats too much piratebay downloads
<diddledan> lol
<treb0r> any of you fine fellows got experience of running Ubuntu on a hidpi screen?
<diddledan> yeah more telly than you can conceivably watch
<daftykins> well 24TB RAID6 :P
<diddledan> treb0r, last I checked there's a bit of wonkyness with some things such as pointer size and issues with non-hidpi-additional monitors
<daftykins> treb0r: well ubuntu has dpi controls so i would think it's simple to cope with now
<treb0r> Thanks
<daftykins> but yeah i think multi display, mixed = headache
<treb0r> I'm going to get a new laptop. Can't deicde whether to splurge on a QHD screen or not
<daftykins> guess it depends if you like battery life or not
<treb0r> I'm going to be using it for years so my instinct is to get the best I can afford.
<daftykins> *nod*
<daftykins> tough call, i've not seen one in person yet
<treb0r> Not botheered about battery really, it's going to a portable workstation really
<daftykins> ah
<treb0r> Thinking of getting that new Dell M3800 with Ubuntu preinstalled.
<treb0r> I've not seen a QHD screen either
<daftykins> hmm not seen said model, do you happen to have a page open now for a link?
<daftykins> diddledan: you always enjoy a bit of geek porn, don't you? i stripped an x240 just before - https://www.dropbox.com/sh/htwkr81q8n3z0uu/AACI7Jq761gnV-675rMPHnOYa?dl=0
<daftykins> came with a tiny SSD so i'm gonna throw in a 512GB to boost it
<diddledan> oooh yeah baby, got it's junk hanging out everywhere!
<diddledan> lots of nudity: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/htwkr81q8n3z0uu/AACI7Jq761gnV-675rMPHnOYa?dl=0#lh:null-IMG_20150305_182538.jpg
<daftykins> 'tis the very best way
<daftykins> opens lovely that thing
<diddledan> it's a thinkpad - they're pretty solid things
<diddledan> eh, does it have two batteries?
<daftykins> there is that, though i've heard their reputation has been sliding of late
<daftykins> sure does!
<daftykins> i took the skinny one out and thought, hang on how does this thing last so long with only a 24Wh? sure enough i remembered there was the second
<diddledan> the one on the outside is teeny
<daftykins> yip
<diddledan> I wonder why they felt the need for one removable and one fixed vs just one slightly bigger fixed
<daftykins> well Lenovo likes to champion the swappable-whilst-on approach
<daftykins> for business types that keep going
<diddledan> swap your batter while on the train with nary a power socket to be seen, and it still doesn't shutdown!
<diddledan> sounds a bit too much like voodoo to me
<daftykins> hehe
<daftykins> i'm still blown away by the 1080p Dell XPS 13 2015 doing 15hrs
<daftykins> shame it doesn't seem to actually be for sale on the UK Dell site
<diddledan> I didn't know superengineer was a foreigner
<diddledan> bloomin aliens!
<diddledan> I'll bet he's an illegal one, too
<diddledan> hint: to understand my random utterances, it is sometimes advised to have join/part notices not turned-off
<shauno> lol.  no, dan
<shauno> that might explain that one, but still leaves the vast majority unsolved
<daftykins> :)
<mapp> diddledan
<mapp> not sure i like the main characters in csi cyber
<Myrtti> :->
<daftykins> 24 and its' complete fake IT chatter makes me cringe... "Michelle we're starting to overload the network, when the virus threat came in we had to start stealing cycles from the main CPU"
<daftykins> just no
<diddledan> daftykins, you've never stolen cpu cycles?
<daftykins> :P
<daftykins> what mystical CPU is being disadvantaged to prop up packet switching?
<daftykins> is there some core router somewhere that just can't handle checksum offload of this magnitude?
<diddledan> the central one that can do everything
<diddledan> they need a mikrotik cloud core router - apparently it's capable of routing at over 1Gbit/s
<shauno> cloud router?
 * diddledan heads tpo teh google to find the stats
<shauno> I dun want stats, I want to know what on earth a cloud router is :p
<daftykins> it's a bit damp
<diddledan> it's just shy f 16Gbit/s: http://cloudcorerouter.com/CCR1036-12G-4S-EM.php
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: CCRs are fun!
<diddledan> MartijnVdS, have you played with one?
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: I have its little brother here -- the RB1100AHx2
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: http://routerboard.com/RB1100AHx2
<MartijnVdS> needed something better than an off-the-shelf consumer router with my 500/500 link here ;)
<shauno> I guess what I'm asking, is does the 'cloud' in its name actually mean anything, or have they just stuck it on there to get the phb's excited
<diddledan> I've got an RB2011UAS-2HnD
<MartijnVdS> shauno: PHB excitement. Though their intended use is "in the datacenter" of course
<MartijnVdS> apparently, mine can do 1.5 gigabits of AES IPSec traffic *boggle*
<diddledan> (the forerunner of the one with a i. the i meaning the new one it has some PoE capability)
<shauno> I think after meraki, sticking 'cloud' in the name just scares me
<MartijnVdS> shauno: you can try their OS in a kvm virtual machine
<MartijnVdS> shauno: (download the "install CD" at http://www.mikrotik.com/download - comes with a 24 hour trial per VM)
<diddledan> if you pay for it you can keep it running permanently in that vm or a back-room pc
<MartijnVdS> it's basically a Linux kernel with their custom software on top of it; this custom software is super scriptable and nice to use (both GUI (windows app and web app) and ssh)
<shauno> I assume it'd work with vmware?  I've never actually got kvm to do anything useful
<daftykins> am i imagining it, or is there a boot parameter that allows a live session be put into RAM so the drive can be taken out? i haven't even touched a search engine so feel free to foam at the mouth in my general direction :>
<shauno> daftykins: I believe there is
<MartijnVdS> shauno: probably, though maybe not with the vmxnet3 10G "virtual network device"
<MartijnVdS> just set it to e1000 and it should work
<daftykins> huzzah i'm not going insane \o/
<shauno> or was.
<diddledan> they claim to do some fancy disc manipulation to store the secret password that unlocks it to a full version - they say that copying the disc won't retain the code - I say shenanigans
<MartijnVdS> (I read something like that on a forum)
<MartijnVdS> I've only used it on routerboard hardware.. no idea :)
<daftykins> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BootToRAM huzzah 'toram'
<shauno> huzzah, 11.04 documentation :(
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: "Do not use format or partitioning utilities, they will delete your key!" -- I say they store it in the boot sector
<diddledan> coincidence that we were only talking about the shoddy ubuntu docs earlier?
<shauno> I was just curious because I've seen routers that store their configuration "in the cloud".  which scares the *Ahem* out of me
<MartijnVdS> shauno: yeah these store it in flash memory on the device :)
<MartijnVdS> shauno: also, you can script them to make backups over https, ftp, email, .. anything you like really
<shauno> lol, yes, I know how routers work
<daftykins> ;)
<MartijnVdS> anyway, sleep time for me :)
<daftykins> s'like a youngster telling me what Dell service tags were the other day
<daftykins> i groaned.
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: haha :)
#ubuntu-uk 2015-03-06
<mapp> hi all:D
<MooDoo> morning all
<SuperMatt> ing
<SuperMatt> *ning
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Friday, and happy Day of Unplugging! :-D
 * bashrc remains plugged
 * davmor2 unplugs his router and blames JamesTait for his lack of internet when his boss is online :D
 * JamesTait enjoys the peace and tranquility. ;)
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<brobostigon> morning bigcalm
<bigcalm> I got Ubuntu 14.04.2 installed on my new Dell XPS 8700 by disabling Secure Boot and wiping out all of the existing partitions on the HDD.
<popey> \o/
<davmor2> bigcalm: 64bit should of installed with secureboot in place
<bigcalm> I've installed the nvidia-current driver and rebooted. I get the lightgdm login screen and can enter my password. After that I have a moving mouse pointer, but nothing else
<bigcalm> davmor2: indeed, but it didn't
<davmor2> bigcalm: were you trying to boot from usb or dvd?
<bigcalm> davmor2: USB. It would give me a grub screen but selecting any of the options resulted in a blank screen and nothing more.
<bigcalm> davmor2: only by disabling Secure Boot could I progress any further
<davmor2> bigcalm: did you file a bug for that
<bigcalm> davmor2: No, I wanted to get on with my life
<davmor2> bigcalm: 64bit should in theory just work
<bigcalm> Anyway
<bigcalm> I have an installed machine now
<davmor2> bigcalm: how new is the gfx card it might be that you would need to enable the xteams ppa to get the right driver
<bigcalm> But installing the nvidia drivers has resulted in unity not starting
<bigcalm> GeForce GTX 750 Ti
<davmor2> popey: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xCd55oSgO4  you need to do this for your kids :D
<Myrtti> difficult choices in life, I might have accidentally broken the SIM pins on hubbys old Galaxy Nexus. He might be in the market for a cheap-ish second smartphone for traveling. Firefox, Fire or Ubuntu. plah.
<Myrtti> also: thank goddess for superglue
<popey> hehe
<Myrtti> if someone ever tells you that they're getting their first ever acrylic nails just few days before a big event and they are crafty people with hands on attitude, tell them they're doing a bad mistake
<Myrtti> BAD mistake
<Myrtti> massive.
<foobarry> nail varnish remover is the antidote to super glue innit?
<Myrtti> sure, but I don't want it to come off.
<Myrtti> I had acrylic nails done two weeks ago. Last two came off yesterday and day before, after catching into my hair from the dislodged part near the cuticles.
<TwistedLucidity> bigcalm: I had to put my ThinkPad into legacy mode to have a 64-bit Kubuntu install work; simply assumed it was me being stupid.
<TwistedLucidity> bigcalm: Have you gone in via a TTY and checked the logs? You might see an error that gives a clue to the issue.
<Myrtti> on their way out the acrylic nails split my actual nail few fractions of a millimeter on the wrong place. the pain in the nail bed isn't fun, kids.
<TwistedLucidity> bigcalm: I've only had issues similar to what describe with more bleeding-edge nvidia drivers (i.e. > v340). I assume you are running stock.
<bigcalm> I've ended up with xorg-edgers ppa and installed nvidia-346. Working system now
<TwistedLucidity> bigcalm: Neat. I pinned my drivers to 340 to stop things breaking. Maybe I'll chance 346, but I have a much other card (GT240).
<bigcalm> I try to avoid xorg-edgers when I can. Don't always have such up to date hardware :)
<bashrc> this weekend I will be mostly trying Ubuntu MATE
<MooDoo> bashrc: it's not bad actually, I tried it the other day
 * popey is downloading Ubuntu Mate 14.04.2 to test :)
<bigcalm> I keep 32bit UM on a USB stick on my keyring. Always handy to have. Used it to demo at the LUG and converted a distro hopper who had previously left Ubuntu because of the dislike of Unity
<bigcalm> Hello from the new machine!
 * bigcalm slowly transfers his work life from his personal laptop to the office workstation
<bigcalm> I didn't need to be productive today or anything
<zmoylan-pi> can't you work while files are transferred in background.  it's not windows were everything grinds t a halt when you transfer a teraabyte or 3
<bigcalm> No, I have to install all of the programs for my dev life
<bigcalm> And set-up VMs
<zmoylan-pi> that's still work
<bigcalm> But not "billable" work
<zmoylan-pi> well read http://www.folklore.org/StoryView.py?story=Negative_2000_Lines_Of_Code.txt to determine how to decide what is productive :-)
<TwistedLucidity> Often wondered about using Puppet (or something) to try and script all that.
<TwistedLucidity> But then I need it to work on Windows as well, and promptly lost the will to live.
<SuperMatt> http://imgur.com/gallery/rIomO
<Myrtti> butterup butter knife arrived.
<Myrtti> hm.
<Azelphur> Well, this is pretty hilarious, technically speaking my own company just tried to recruit me
<Azelphur> Company A owns a 30% stake in Company I work for, Company A just sent me an email trying to hire me lmao
<Azelphur> tempting to write back "I already work for you, say hi to <boss> for me"
<davmor2> hey bigcalm isn't billable one of the characters from lord of the rings?
<bigcalm> davmor2: yes
<davmor2> bigcalm: Three main characters are billable feefor yourbadadmin
<bigcalm> The last one is lost on me
<davmor2> bigcalm: your bad admin
<bigcalm> Nope, still don't get it
<davmor2> popey: today is the 33 anniversary of this amazing track https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0cD9cBEaNBc and I know you'll a) listen to it and b) sing along :)
<daftykins> hey all
<daftykins> i have a very specific challenge to provide a windows 98 laptop with floppy drive and serial port for my aircraft engineer mate
<daftykins> does anyone have such an era machine kicking around gathering dust? :)
<knightwise> daftykins: thats a tough one
<daftykins> indeed :D
<foobarry> virtualbox?
<foobarry> does that pass serial port?
<foobarry> daftykins: i did have one until recently, a lovely thinkpad 600e
<daftykins> :O
<daftykins> nah it needs to be a proper laptop, to carry onto planes
<foobarry> great scren on it, still worked nice after 15 years
<daftykins> foobarry: didn't take it out behind the barn and put it out of its' misery, did you?
<foobarry> gave it to my friend to take to zimbabwe
<foobarry> along with bunch of other laptops
<daftykins> ;_;
<foobarry> i'm sure ebay is chock full of them at less than 20 quid
<daftykins> well i'm browsing but it's tough to find something that isn't broken or is just parts
<foobarry> ask a local uni?
<foobarry> probably got a room full
<daftykins> hehe, i'm on an island sir
<foobarry> he
<foobarry> school
<daftykins> mmm maybe, my ol' head of IT at a College of higher ed. might have something relevant
<hazrpg> Hey all \o
<foobarry> hi
<shauno> o/
<foobarry> how are you
<hazrpg> not too bad, how's you?
<foobarry> old, but good
<hazrpg> ^_^ we all get old someday
<hazrpg> The most important thing is always your health :)
<hazrpg> Just wondering if someone would help me diagnose why ubuntu has been freezing a lot on me recently
<hazrpg> I keep blaming chrome... however I'm not sure if that's the true cause, because surely chrome tabs and extensions should just crash themselves not the whole OS
<foobarry> do you have swap sapce?
<hazrpg> foobarry: yeah, I'd be insane not to :P
<foobarry> its overrated
<foobarry> :P
<foobarry> which is probably why i get hangups
<foobarry> but swap space just delays the problem
<hazrpg> foobarry: actually, now that you say that - htop says I have 0/0 swap o.O
<foobarry> if you are using too much
<foobarry> free -m
<hazrpg> but I know I definitely have a swap partition (always make it!)
<foobarry> sudo swapon -s
<popey> daftykins: thinkpad x61 off ebay
<hazrpg> sudo swapon -s returns nothing
<popey> would run win98 just lovely
<popey> oh, floppy is a problem
<popey> usb :)
<foobarry> hazrpg haz no swap
<foobarry> probably why you get hangs
<hazrpg> foobarry: indeed...
<popey> daftykins: the hardest part is getting all the software updates after you install win98se
<popey> because the windows update service is shut down i think
<daftykins> popey: won't need any though
<popey> even stuff like .net and other libs?
<daftykins> it just needs to run this ghetto plane software to pull data over serial from an ATR aircraft :>
<popey> right
<hazrpg> foobarry: I'll be honest, I'm baffled, because I clearly have 6GB swap partition - just checked with gparted
<daftykins> lol .NET on 98?
<popey> yeah
<popey> .net runtime
<popey> anway, not needed
<foobarry> check /etc/fstab
<popey> i installed windows 3.11 on a usb stick recently :)
<daftykins> :D
<popey> http://i.imgur.com/9MVKdPG.jpg
<popey> and gem desktop
<popey> http://i.imgur.com/uFIoyDv.jpg
<foobarry> sudo swapon <swap partition>
<daftykins> i've got an old 12" Dell latitude LS400, but it needs a docking station to provide a serial port. and those'd likely require mains power to run wouldn't they?
<daftykins> i've never owned a docking station
<popey> the dock would, yes
<popey> usb floppy?
<daftykins> mmm that's a no-go then
<popey> they're 10 a penny
<foobarry> any old laptop will have dead battery
<popey> yeah, unless thinkpad, in which case you can get replacements
<daftykins> wouldn't there be issues having ghetto software seeing a USB floppy on windows 98 as the true floppy drive?
<popey> nah, it just shows up as A:
<popey> bios sees it
<daftykins> i'd be a little wary of expecting that to fly, given a 98 era machine though
<hazrpg> foobarry: I'll be honest, fstab has recently baffled me too of late - in the past it use to use /dev/sd* but now it uses UUID which I can never quite get my head around (I know what it is, just /dev/sd* made more sense to me)
<daftykins> USB would probably be exotic enough as is :D
<popey> i used to use a usb floppy on win98
<hazrpg> foobarry: fstab clearly has a line for swap though
<popey> on a sony vaio
<popey> which had no other option
<daftykins> hazrpg: heh, but it was too susceptible to disk changes
<daftykins> popey: ah, good to know
<hazrpg> foobarry: # swap was on /dev/sda3 during installation, followed by the line below it for the swap part
<hazrpg> daftykins: true, I know what you mean - but it still made more sense :P
<daftykins> i don't see any harm in a quick 'sudo blkid' and UUID check
<daftykins> not the most editable of things, granted ;D
<daftykins> in fact if i were CLI only and having to change one, i'd probably end up using paper :S
<hazrpg> daftykins: I didn't know that command - cheers for that :)
<daftykins> ^_^ np
<hazrpg> daftykins: thanks for that command btw, seems my UUID for the swap changed
<daftykins> 0o
<daftykins> keep an fstab backup as-is just in case
<hazrpg> daftykins: indeed ;)
<hazrpg> I wonder what would have caused that to change o.O
<hazrpg> going to reboot to see if that new fstab works, back shortly
<hazrpg> seems that sorted out the fstab :)
<hazrpg> still don't understand why my system has recently been hanging up/freezing though
<hazrpg> it's always something different in the /var/log/syslog
<foobarry> will stop hanging now
<foobarry> *maybe
<daftykins> heh i've found a nice Dell C800... in Nebraska
<zmoylan-pi> shipping will cost a fortune :-)
<daftykins> it oddly enough comes up as Â£15 on ebay
<daftykins> but yeah i would rather not go that far afield if possible
<diddledan> C800? isn't that a rather large freight plane?
<daftykins> :>
<diddledan> in which case it'll deliver itself :-p
<zmoylan-pi> no you load it up in the antonov 225 and they air drop it on your doorstep
<daftykins> any recommendations'd be handy, this task seems quite hard
<daftykins> so it's any laptop that'll run win98, with a floppy drive and serial port
<zmoylan-pi> go to your nearest recycle centre and see if they have one lying around?
<daftykins> ;]
<zmoylan-pi> as a doorstep even :-)
<diddledan> teehee: https://plus.google.com/111403714821787277067/posts/2K3BY1NMp7V
<zmoylan-pi> that's old, i think it wants a bitcoin miner these days too :-)
<diddledan> it's just reared it's head for mac users tho
<diddledan> from yesterday (us time) http://www.zdnet.com/article/oracle-extends-its-adware-bundling-to-include-java-for-macs/
<diddledan> Myrtti, I'm intrigued by your bouquet requiring charging
<Myrtti> I'll probably participate in Adafruit show and tell session and blog about it later ;-)
<diddledan> \o/
<Myrtti> I've got one request for a write-up already from a FinnIsh maker fanzine
<Myrtti> stupid predictive text
<diddledan> ooh, nice one!
<Azelphur> Anyone electronicsy know where I might pick up one of these micro switches? https://owncloud.azelphur.com/owncloud/public.php?service=files&t=096a2e5364b88925ab763868ec90d62e
<shauno> the blue bit?
<Azelphur> shauno: nah, bluish green, the one with 3S1802A on the side
<shauno> probably something like http://uk.farnell.com/omron-electronic-components/ss-01/microswitch-spdt-pin-30vdc-0-1a/dp/1829514
<shauno> but you'll want to look around 'subminature pin-plunger' to find the best match
<davmor2> Azelphur: maplins
<shauno> (eg, how many connections come out the bottom, and what lines up, and blah blah.  make sure it fits)
<Azelphur> shauno: tbh I have no clue of what that is, I might need a little education :)
<ujjain> does theather monkey have a green seat map or only reviews?
<Azelphur> shauno: certainly looks like the right part, just as you say may not fit
<diddledan> googley play-doh is giving away fast and furious for free
<diddledan> https://play.google.com/store/movies/details/Fast_and_Furious
<shauno> Azelphur, that's the problem .. there's characteristics you can't see from there.  like whether it has big flat legs or straight pins, or ..
<Azelphur> shauno: oh wow, so I did a google search and I found someone replacing the middle button (not left as I want to do) but boatloads of photos, http://rellinger.blogspot.co.uk/2012/12/replacing-middle-button-on-logitech.html
<Azelphur> I might do the middle too tbh with that info, my middle is a bit funky.
<Azelphur> shauno: last photo clearly shows the underside of the board too though
<daftykins> i have a couple of those M570s for the boss
<IhaveScreenArtif> Judging from me user name you may have figured out i have screen artifacts after a series of updates.
<IhaveScreenArtif> i need help
<ali1234> what kind of artifacts?
<ali1234> what graphics card and what did you update to/from?
<daftykins> either that or you have screen art
<IhaveScreenArtif> i dont know what i updated from.
<diddledan> daftykins, only conditional art
<IhaveScreenArtif> and i dont know what graphics card i have
<daftykins> "lspci | pastebinit" to share with the group, IhaveScreenArtif
<daftykins> you may have to install pastebinit first
<IhaveScreenArtif> i need to install it
<IhaveScreenArtif> http://paste.ubuntu.com/10552136/
<daftykins> hmm intel Q35
<IhaveScreenArtif> really old?
<diddledan> intel should be well-supported, no?
<ali1234> diddledan: it's well supported if you have a headless server
<daftykins> XD
<IhaveScreenArtif> it seems like for now the so called screen artifacts cant be seen
<diddledan> take a screen shot :-p
<diddledan> I did that to show someone the huge moth that had landed on my monitor
 * bashrc is running on Ubuntu MATE
<popey> \o/
<bashrc> it's like going back in time to 10.10
<zmoylan-pi> arrrrrrrrr
<IhaveScreenArtif> has anyone decided what party your going to  vote in the general elections?
<bashrc> eh, well, maybe
<daftykins> not my government :D
<IhaveScreenArtif> im sure your pro europe
<popey> !politics
<lubotu3> Please take political discussion to ##politics-uk. Thank you!
<popey> :)
<bashrc> I'm a people person
<IhaveScreenArtif> who on earth will have Tesco broadband
<Myrtti> nobody nowadays, it's all TalkTalk
<IhaveScreenArtif> no, its BT
<Myrtti> http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/news/utilities/2015/01/talktalk-to-take-over-tesco-broadband-and-home-phone-customers
 * zmoylan-pi has tesco mobile in ireland and hopes the 3 and o2 merger doesn't muck things up too much.  i saw a price change sms in last week
<zmoylan-pi> tesco mobile is run as a mvpn on o2's network
<diddledan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tSDPOvtPi5s
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi, mvpn?
 * zmoylan-pi loans them my bow and arrows to do real damage to their server fort :-)
<zmoylan-pi> a mobile network that is virtual in that it has no masts of its own but rents space on another companies.
<daftykins> it's MVNO i think? mobile virtual network operator
<diddledan> not one of these then: http://www.cisco.com/en/US/tech/tk828/tech_digest09186a00801a64a3.html
<diddledan> this might be a more readable version: http://www.ciscopress.com/articles/article.asp?p=32100&seqNum=3
<zmoylan-pi> my bad mvno. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_virtual_network_operator
<daftykins> nothing like a good wiki salt
<daftykins> ;)
<diddledan> wikiwikiwiki oi oi oi
<Myrtti> wakawaka
<diddledan> pacman?
<diddledan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwMnb4-t8vo <-- first couple of minutes where he talks about "hate driven development" .. funny
#ubuntu-uk 2015-03-07
<diddledan> can anyone else get to the bbc news site?
<diddledan> I seem to be stalling on loading images and javascripts and things
<nigelb> diddledan: wfm. Do you have a particularly broken link?
<nigelb> Also, http or https?
<nigelb> (I'm hitting bbc.com though)
<mapp> hey
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zertyui> hi
<zertyui> there
<zertyui> when doing ls -rtl
<zertyui> is it possible to see the complete th ?
<shauno> like doing ls -rtl | less   ?
 * bashrc fixes emacs configuration
<ujjain> whats the song called...
<ujjain> itÂ´s blabla oclock in soho....
<ujjain> london band
<ujjain> old music
<MooDoo> afternoon all
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<bashrc> afternoon
<Banana_> my screen artifacts returned. All day last night my system was working normal and before a update (i think it was) i havest experienced screen artifacts for 4 months
<penguin42> damn, Amazon has started to understand me; it's offered me a 1kg bag of chocolate coffee beans
<SuperEngineer> penguin42, tell them I want those!
<SuperEngineer> I lurrrrv chocolate coffee beans!
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: http://www.amazon.co.uk/CAROL-ANNE-CHOCOLATE-COFFEE-BEANS/dp/B00CDW241Q/ref=sr_1_2?s=grocery&ie=UTF8&qid=1425750819&sr=1-2&keywords=chocolate+coffee+beans
<SuperEngineer> penguin42, thank you
<daftykins> hi all
<daftykins> penguin42: hehe, you are powerless to resist!
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: Seems a reasonable price - if they're good
<SuperEngineer> yup
 * penguin42 had the first ice cream of the year today from an 'artisan' chocolate shop; very creamy, but frankly very unchocolatey :-(
<daftykins> it was oddly sunny down here, too
<daftykins> 12 deg C i believe
<penguin42> it was lovely here
<SuperEngineer> It was gorgously sunny here... went for a pint, drank it outside in the sun...
<daftykins> :)
<daftykins> i went to a cafe up north overlooking a harbour, bay and the neighbouring islands
<SuperEngineer> ...&commented "oh what a glourious day, except for that awful wind"...
<SuperEngineer> just as a woman passing farted.... perfect timing methinka
<SuperEngineer> *methinks
<daftykins> D:
<daftykins> tsk tsk naughty CentOS users trying to get support in #ubuntu
<daftykins> the bash prompt is such a giveaway 8D
<SuperEngineer> penguin42, just ordered me some chocolate coffee beans.  Fingers crossed :)
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: Haha sorry about that; if you're still awake after a week then they're probably good
<bashrc> Well Ubuntu MATE is running pretty well. It's old skool, but hey.
<SuperEngineer> penguin42, I call chocolate coffee beans "chocolate driving means".. so here's hoping!
<penguin42> bashrc: I quite like it; my dad mostly runs mate
<bashrc> I ran Gnome 2 for years, so this is quite familiar. I expect it's also very lightweight and could run well on older hardware
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: haha; M&S used to do some a few years back where it was chocolate coffee remolded into a bean shape that were great; no crunchy core but still a big kick
<t7> stupid xchat-gnome opens this channel by default
<t7> i have no idea how to stop it
<bashrc> irssi ftw
<t7> i dont like monospace fonts on irc
<penguin42> because it looks like  i rc ?
<t7> because its not code
<t7> arg reinstalling OS is very stressful :)
<t7> i should just go back to chatzilla
<t7> even though firefox crashes so often and i lose irc connection
<daftykins> i think the mistakes those that don't do OS installs often make, is they try to rush back.
<t7> i just did 14.04 -> .10
<penguin42> why would you reinstall for that?
<t7> installed too much junk
<daftykins> well we all know what the word 'upgrade' really means ;)
<daftykins> i wouldn't fancy non-LTS personally :>
<bashrc> 'Upgrade'?
<t7> also, can i use docker or something to keep all my dev and DB stuff separate from OS ?
<t7> i dont want postgres running all the time (when i wanna play games)
<daftykins> eggs and baskets come to mind :)
<penguin42> has anyone got the magic to get five.tv to work ?
<diddledan> penguin42, I think it probably involves some kind of goat sacrifice
<penguin42> diddledan: Well, I've tried that....
<daftykins> XD
<penguin42> I've got it playing on my Android Phone; but failed with Firefox (ubuntu and fedora) chrome (fedora)
<penguin42> pleasently surprised it's managing it on CM
<diddledan> I think it requires silverlight on desktop
<penguin42> diddledan: No, it seems to be Flash based these days
<penguin42> diddledan: but requires flash-drm
<diddledan> hmm
<zmoylan-pi> is flash more or less evil than silverlight these days? :-)
<diddledan> that is supposed to work out of the box
<penguin42> there are suggestions you need to install hald and *then* sacrifice a goat
<shauno> I think that's really the only sane thing you can do with a goat once you've installed hald on it
<diddledan> the flash bundled with googley edition chrome should support drm on 14.10
<diddledan> I thought 14.04 had received the relevant patches, too
<penguin42> diddledan: Yeh, that's why I installed chrome on ubuntu though, I tried it on fedora using chrome downloaded from google
<penguin42> diddledan: What needs the patches?
<SuperEngineer> you need a free range goat beforre it works
<diddledan> penguin42, a library shipped with ubuntu
<diddledan> nss?
<penguin42> hmm
<diddledan> lol @ full-disclosure mailing list: there's queries over java 8u40 being released and people questioning why there was an out-of-band (not scheduled) bugfix release. it's got to the point that a dude from oracle has had to step-in and point out that it's a feature release that's been planned for over a year
<daftykins> oh dear :)
<daftykins> were they frothing at the mouth and demanding answers as to what it 'fixed' ?
<diddledan> hehe
<SuperEngineer> ...here I am, brain the size of a planet....
<penguin42> all the diodes down your left leg...
<SuperEngineer> ;)
<zmoylan-pi> that statement was made when pluto was considered a planet... :-P
<diddledan> how many times have we re-classified pluto now?
<shauno> 1
<diddledan> really?
<shauno> as I understand it, it just went from planet to dwarf-planet when we discovered there's other KBOs that are as big, if not bigger
<diddledan> I thought they upgraded it again and then down a second time
<daftykins> aww low battery already
<diddledan> :-o
 * zmoylan-pi glances at phone i've used all day and it still registers 100% :-)
<daftykins> oh wrong chan
<daftykins> i dug out my Nintendo DSi :D
<zmoylan-pi> i tells ya that if nokia of yore had of made an electric car it would have the best range. :-)
<zmoylan-pi> turning the indicators on would have involved 16 menu options though... :-D
<zmoylan-pi> i quite liked the nintendo ds and the ds lite. very good solid hardware
<daftykins> it was claiming 50% battery when i fired it up just now, hasn't been used in years
<zmoylan-pi> ah the smart battery guage that guesses and adjusts over a batteries life...
<daftykins> :)
<diddledan> I still can't get anything from bbc.co.uk other than text
<diddledan> it just sits there spinning chrome's loading icon
<popey> wfm
<diddledan> hmm weird
<diddledan> everything else on the internet that I've tried works fine
<diddledan> just bbc can't load imagery and video
<diddledan> looks like js isn't loading eitehr
<diddledan> weird, it's just this computer (maybe the browser)
<diddledan> my mac loads it fine
<daftykins> matching DNS config?
<diddledan> should be - I do things with dhcp
<diddledan> both systems are resolving static.bbci.co.uk the same way
<diddledan> there's an error in the console from requirejs: http://requirejs.org/docs/errors.html#timeout <-- they helpfully don't mention the possibility that perhaps the server ain't responding
<diddledan> their two likely causes are 1) the path is wrong, or 2) the developer put two scripts of the same id
<shauno> do you have some variant of https-everywhere?
<diddledan> noep
<diddledan> I wonder why bbc set a cookie with a browser version string embedded?
<diddledan> specifically: Mozilla/5.0%20(Windows%20NT%2010.0%3b%20WOW64)%20AppleWebKit/537.36%20(KHTML%2c%20like%20Gecko)%20Chrome/40.0.2214.111%20Safari/
<shauno> that's a browser string?  it looks like ... all the browser strings
<shauno> do you get a meaningful error if you go to one of the static assets directly?  eg http://static.bbci.co.uk/weather/0.5.284/images/icons/individual_56_icons/en_on_light_bg/8.gif  ?
<diddledan> that loads
<diddledan> this is pending: http://static.bbci.co.uk/frameworks/barlesque/2.83.4/orb/4/img/bbc-blocks-dark.png
<shauno> so it can load them, but just doesn't want to ?
<shauno> hm, that works here
<diddledan> but loads when I go there directly
<shauno> ooh, you know what it is?
<daftykins> clean browser session?
<shauno> bedtime.  have fun with that :p
<daftykins> er i mean clean profile
<daftykins> shauno: nn sir :>
<popey> lulz https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NyShy_ey7Ds
<popey> Ubuntu MATE on PowerMac G5
<daftykins> heh the 21:9 LCDs
<popey> yeah
<diddledan> what's the mention of apple firmware and lack of apple firmware all about?
<daftykins> mmm don't quite get that
<diddledan> me either
<daftykins> nor do i get messing with old PPC kit :D
<popey> nah, i dunno
<daftykins> might continue my win98 craptop finding mission this week :)
<diddledan> re: the java thread on full disclosure I mentioned - they're now onto talking about the ask toolbar being included gratis. someone pointed to a screenshot of the windows version http://i.imgur.com/82Tp2pp.png?1 which I'm curious as to the white bits being weirdly shaped and all over the shop
<daftykins> an ebay seller kindly has offered to take time to test serial + floppy on one i enquired about
<daftykins> diddledan: windows themeing, mmm
<daftykins> see it mess up a lot these days in 7 and 8
<diddledan> that looks like it's vista?
<daftykins> although i wouldn't expect it to be that bad... but also i don't quite fancy running the installer to find out :D
<daftykins> same close control as 7, tough call
<diddledan> I can't actually remember 7
<daftykins> same as that :D
<diddledan> cuteness alert: https://twitter.com/EmrgencyKittens/status/574309839679131648/photo/1
<popey> awwwwwww
<daftykins> i can't click such links anymore, Mischief says she's all the cuteness i need
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/mvepdm6sggtv2m2/IMG_20141129_020918.jpg?dl=0
<daftykins> ;)
<diddledan> awwww
<diddledan> she wubs you
<daftykins> ooh the win10 VM wants to update its' store
<popey> daftykins: ever done an oem install of ubuntu?
<zmoylan-pi> merely the moggy equivalent of a mother wiping her childs face in front of their friends to embarrass them :-)
<daftykins> OEM you say? nope don't think so, not even sure what's involved?
<popey> k
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi, not only does the mother wipe her child's face, but she uses her spit to do so
<popey> its for oems (funnily) which lets you install, customize it then ship it
<daftykins> sadly i don't consider myself capable of supporting it well enough to try and put it in for someone
<popey> then when customer turns it on, it asks the usual questions - username, keyboard, locale etc
<daftykins> *nod*
<zmoylan-pi> that goes without saying diddledan, dial the embarrassment to 11
<diddledan> is that 1 louder?
<zmoylan-pi> 1 ickier
<diddledan> aah
<daftykins> hrmm wonder what to do with this canon inkjet
<daftykins> can't be that great since it was free :D
<zmoylan-pi> the ink isn't
<daftykins> mmm just looked that up
<zmoylan-pi> even the cheap 3rd party cartridges are expensive
<daftykins> Â£17.49 for one cart of each
<zmoylan-pi> buy a laser
<daftykins> i don't even want a printer at all :) this cheap Â£208 Lenovo i3 laptop just came with it
<zmoylan-pi> it's ballast
<zmoylan-pi> a free anchor
<daftykins> so now i have to buy a boat? d'aww
<zmoylan-pi> use the styrofoam packaging to make a raft
<daftykins> hmmm
<daftykins> my my, SSD + double RAM to 8GB still comes to under Â£299
<zmoylan-pi> new shiny hardware soon probably so shift the old 'junk'
<daftykins> hmmm?
<daftykins> skylake isn't for the second half of the year (intel's next greatest)
<zmoylan-pi> usually someything new and shiny in the spring
<daftykins> broadwell desktop might show up at some point
 * penguin42 wishes for more faster cores
#ubuntu-uk 2015-03-08
<popey> anyone know how you switch to the TTY in kvm?
 * popey bets penguin42 would know :)
<penguin42> huh what where?
<penguin42> popey: so you've got a guest and you want to pass it the equivalent of ctrl-alt-f1 ?
<penguin42> popey: What client are you using - virt-manager?
<popey> exactly
<popey> just kvm launched from a terminal
<popey> hardcore ã
<penguin42> oh, that's weird :-)
<penguin42> popey: Do you have a View menu with compat-monitor 0   on it?
<popey> no menus
<penguin42> hmm
<daftykins> is this using 'virsh' ? (i'm googling :D )
<penguin42> popey: Yeh so when you say kvm from the command line; what are you actually running ,qemu directly, or virsh or what?
<popey> kvm
<popey> kvm -m blah -hda foo etc
<penguin42> I *think* that's an alias for qemu - yeh
<popey> root     22919 37.1 13.0 2577572 2130808 pts/36 Sl+ Mar07   7:53 qemu-system-x86_64 -enable-kvm -m 2048 -hda /dev/sdc
<popey> looks that way
<penguin42> popey: if you type ctrl-a c  in the terminal where you started it   do you get a (qemu) prompt ?
<popey> no because my kvm is inside a screen
<popey> so my screen will give me a new window
<penguin42> then type ctrl-a a c
<popey> nope
<popey> I get ^Ac in my terminal
<popey> gonna tell me I should use some frontend or something?
<popey> and not be so ghetto
<penguin42> popey: Yeh well I normally do or run non-graphical in which case I get the serial prompt and can switch with ctrl-a c
<popey> hmmm
<penguin42> popey: if you're not seeing any menus I wonder what you're running; I think the gtk front end is probably what gives me menus on the fedora build
<penguin42> popey: I wonder if it's the SDL build you've got
<popey> could be, the window isnt super useful
<daftykins> can't believe it's a year since flight MH370 already
<popey> it doesn't resize well
<popey> i suspect the menu / gtk bit is more part of the virt-manager gui
<penguin42> popey: No, this isn't virt-manager
<popey> oh
<penguin42> popey: I'm running pure qemu on f21 here and still getting a menu
 * popey installs virtmanager
<penguin42> oh yeh, no menus on the Ubuntu build
<popey> its pulling in a different qemu build
<penguin42> popey: OK, add the following to your kvm line   -chardev stdio,id=mon -mon mon
<popey> k
<penguin42> you should now have a (qemu) prompt
<popey> \o/ i do
<penguin42> great
 * popey makes notes
<penguin42> popey: Now you can type at that prompt   sendkey ctrl-alt-f1
<popey> win
<popey> thanks!
<penguin42> no problem
<mapp> yo
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<popey> pip pip
<brobostigon> morning popey
<SuperEngineer> Id it Thursday yet? I want my chocolate coffee beans ordered last night.
<SuperEngineer> *Is
<brobostigon> :)
 * brobostigon should have recieved his new d20 dice set, tmrw.
<zmoylan-pi> oooh, what do the new shiny dice look like?
<brobostigon> they are a transparent white, blue writing, with flecks on the inside.
 * zmoylan-pi avoids transparent dice as they can be hard to read sometimes depending on the surrounds.
<brobostigon> yes, however i have already got a transparent set, and i think with enough colour contrast, it isnt a huge problem.
<brobostigon> my current transparent set, is black writing on white, they are fairly easy to read.
<zmoylan-pi> i also once bought a nice set with celtic style engraving around the numbers and they are a bugger to read
<brobostigon> yes, i can imagine,
<zmoylan-pi> so these days stick to an opaque dark with bright numbers on them styles
<brobostigon> :)
<zmoylan-pi> though i am always tempted to hunt down a d-total... http://www.dicecollector.com/D24_ALEXANDER_SIMKIN_GAMESCIENCE_D_TOTAL_01.jpg
<steini> Hi
<penguin42> hey
<steini> penguin42, I'm trying to get some help with a problem. Is this a support channel ?
<penguin42> steini: Not really, you're better to ask in #ubuntu
<steini> Ok, I have already tried that.
<mapp> well
<mapp> thats annoying
<mapp> had hoped for cheap flights from gib -> manchester but nothing under Â£160 .i wanted Â£10 lol
<penguin42> eek, can't have you coming here....
<mapp> thought to manchester would be way cheaper than to Heathrow
<mapp> so id use my free flights to heathrow
<penguin42> mapp: The only really cheap flights here seem to be Ryanair
<mapp> yea and they dont fly to gib
<SuperEngineer> mapp, did you look under the "I'm prepared to hang on the wings" option?
<mapp> only got sleazyJET Monarch and BA
<mapp> lol
<penguin42> I'd have assumed sleazyjet would be the most likely
<shauno> buy a boat :)
<mapp> i dont need to go back ..i just planned on using my 2 free flights )(max Â£250) to go back to Heathrow ..and get a cheap flight back to Manchester and taxi to stoke
<penguin42> a taxi to stoke would cost you more wouldn't it?
<mapp> yea lol
<penguin42> easier to just get the train
<mapp> Â£45-50 each way
<mapp> usually just get Ahmed to take us to the airport (we got the same taxi everyday to the casino) lol
<mapp> yea but with a case penguin42?
<penguin42> mapp: Not that big a hastle if it's just the one; train from airport-piccadilly, piccadilly-stoke
<penguin42> stoke-oblivion
<mapp> hm
<mapp> yea
<mapp> maybe
<mapp> but the platform for asirport was miles from main picadilly stations
<mapp> well not miles
<mapp> got the train to manchester airport when i went to Holland
<mapp> work pay for the flights anyway upto 250 so i might just pay for taxi
<penguin42> mapp: Oh if you do use the train, use the train not the tram; there's now a tram from the airport to manc city centre, but it goes a long long way around
<mapp> oh didnt know that
<penguin42> mapp: Why stoke? Home?
<mapp> where i lived for 7years so still have a house and stuff there
<mapp> home is the Surrey area i prefer to say
<mapp> i just lived in stoke;p
<penguin42> ah ok, so you escaped....
<mapp> incredible really here.we pay Â£1600 3 bed in gib
<mapp> my friend just moved here..800 euros 3 bed in La Linea
<mapp> rachel pays 500 for a 3 bed!
<mapp> 800 euros is right near the border..but la linea is a dump;[
<daftykins> O_O
<daftykins> afty
<mapp> ;]
<knightwise> hey everyone
<daftykins> hey o/
<daftykins> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2nNMrDqZcj8
<daftykins> xbox news at GDC video :D very exciting
<daftykins> talks about upcoming Windows 10 integration
 * penguin42 is getting drawn to the idea of buying an ice cream maker
<daftykins> :O
 * penguin42 has been making chocolate sorbet by hand for the last few years, and well they always come out quite rough and it is a faff
<penguin42> but, they're ~Â£200 so hmm
<penguin42> If I run it 10 times a year, and it's guarantee is 5 years, and assuming it dies immediately after the guarantee, then that's #4/batch which is way more than the ingredient cost
<daftykins> you're forgetting how popular your house will become in these calculations of course ;)
<penguin42> that would be a big downside
<daftykins> lol
<SuperEngineer> hmmm... buy Â£200 worth of choclate sorbet instead?
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: Well, you see that is the calculation
<SuperEngineer> no hassle - all nom nom
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: Although finding chocolate sorbet to buy is actually quite hard
<SuperEngineer> ..bring it home, let it melt into a sealed bag - refreeze... then you even made it yourself!
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: I didn't know such a wonderful thing existed into a gellato place near hear started selling it and it was wonderful - but then they closed down, and anyway it was very expensive
<mapp> hmm
<mapp> trying to install wordpress..getting errors..denied when making the tables
<mapp> yet i created a new user in mysql and granted privileges on the wordpress db
<mapp> O_O
<SuperEngineer> penguin42, take Â£200 into a shop - I bet they'll obtaain some for you!
<mapp> at udea?
<mapp> ant
<mapp> any
<mapp> arghh
<celesteh> Hey, I'm having an issue with latex, that seems to be a font issue, but I see the font under my font manager. This si the error: http://pastebin.com/70q4XxyD
<celesteh> mapp: what errors?
<SuperEngineer> or - any ant at udea ? even
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1fCP6bC8IaZm7mm_Mx0LmhKYZ2u2QxX7naeGdhq1-wko/edit#gid=0   see it's a very simple recipe although I've been trying to add Xanthan gum last year to make it smoother and it's not really helping
<SuperEngineer> penguin42, add evostick instead
<mapp> permession enied to create the tables
<mapp> ;((((((
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: I'm not sure there's much difference
<celesteh> mapp: cut and paste to paste bin?  Did you edit the wp config file?
<SuperEngineer> lol
<mapp> yea
<mapp> sec
<celesteh> mapp: the wordpress codex is really good, so you might also try googling with your error messages and see if you get anything
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: You see it's actually wonderfully low calorie for something that tastes very chocolatey; the only problem is the texture of making it by hand
<mapp> stupid windows8 machine stopped respnding
<mapp> cant do anything yet
<mapp> argh
<daftykins> mapp: did you create as GRANT ALL ON db.*
<daftykins> was the db already existing perhaps?
<mapp> ya
<mapp> created the db
<celesteh> Does anyone here have any latex experience? I only use it once a year or so for conference papers.
<SuperEngineer> penguin42, won't a blender smooth it out & maybe make it a bit "fluffier" even?
<mapp> dont you have to specify the user to give all perms daftykins
<mapp> no me celesteh;/
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: After freezing?
<daftykins> mapp: but it was empty, so freshly created then you set the user+pass with full perms?
<SuperEngineer> penguin42, pre-freezing - just before it goes sub-zero, as it were
<daftykins> mapp: you're breaking the famous wordpress 5 min install XD
<SuperEngineer> ..just an idea - no proof
<mapp> GRANT ALL PRIVILEGES  on WORDPRESS.* TO 'wordpress'@'localhost' no?
<mapp> hahaha daftykins
<mapp> yea
<mapp> no tables just empty db
<mapp> then did the above
 * penguin42 tries to do maths to justify this ice cream maker
<mapp> which i read in the docs..isnt that right?
<daftykins> sec i've got my notepad upstairs with notes on the process
<mapp> ;]
<mapp> deff got te db created i checked..got a user wordpress with a pass set..didnt wanna use root ;p and did the above grant cmd
<daftykins> yes you would not use root
<daftykins> never ever :>
<daftykins> i should reinstall my VMs today, 10.04 is nearly dead :O
<daftykins> mapp: GRANT ALL ON wordpress.* TO 'user'@'localhost' IDENTIFIED BY "password";
<daftykins> yet another wonky disk in #ubuntu - wowzer
<daftykins> this whole 'all my important data on one mechanical drive' approach is frighteningly common
<SuperEngineer> daftykins, all my media & docs are on a separate partion, which is backed off onto a 2nd disk for safety... people think I'm daft - I am daft [& proud of it]... but I am the one who laughs at them when they ask for help
<daftykins> =]
<bashrc> I now have a pretty good server backup system
<daftykins> http://www.unrelatedshit.com/2014/07/30/kvm-too-fast-for-plymouth-upstart-bridge/
<daftykins> *chuckle*
<daftykins> VM on an SSD starts too fast :>
<shauno> I used to have this issue on my laptop
<daftykins> :D
<shauno> my wallpaper kept disappearing.  it took me a while to figure out why - my pictures are on spinning rust, my OS is on SSD
<penguin42> daftykins: Haha that's fun
<daftykins> do you even need plymouth stuff on a pure CLI server VM 0o
<shauno> and this was the first thing it loaded from the hdd, so it gave up 'waiting' for the drive to spin up
<daftykins> :D
<shauno> and there's a lot of cruft on ubuntu VMs that doesn't make sense.  I'm still not entirely sure what console-kit is, let alone why I need 20 copies of it on a VM
<daftykins> 1022MB used for a clean install of 14.04.1 32-bit fully updated and old kernel + package cache cleared
<daftykins> (thus it became 14.04.2 but with a 3.13 kernel still)
<penguin42> 20 copies?!
<daftykins> what's the package? i just grep'd dpkg -l for 'console' and see console-setup
<shauno> hm, trying to find a VM I haven't stripped to barebones  heh
<daftykins> do you use the full ISOs or mini.iso?
<shauno> usually the -server iso
<daftykins> i select nothing in tasksel so i'm not sure i'd get any difference
<shauno> hm, I'll have to take a poke at a fresh image when I get home
<shauno> most of mine have been scraped down to <5 processes  lol
<daftykins> i only give my little web server VM 256MB of RAM, maybe i shouldn't use ubuntu anymore
<zmoylan-pi> my pi has more ram... :-)
<daftykins> yes well, the least said about that the better ;)
<zmoylan-pi> only seems to use 120mb on a day to day basis
<daftykins> wow there's a lot of junk, all wireless tools packages and everything
<daftykins> wireless-regdb wants to remove the kernel :D
<diddledan> well done automattic: http://torrentfreak.com/wordpress-wins-25000-from-dmca-takedown-abuser-150305/
<diddledan> for every reference in that article to "wordpress" swap it for "automattic" and it'll be correct
<daftykins> wow
<penguin42> diddledan: $960 for the author, $1860 for their employee work and $22264 for attorney fees :-(
<zmoylan-pi> they don't expect to see a penny from the news item i read. they just see it as a nice legal slap against the idiot doing the dmca takedowns
<diddledan> https://vimeo.com/96558506
<diddledan> funny
<diddledan> apple are announcing the rumoured iThingy tomorrow?
<shauno> seem's the win's worth more than the money.  for california to collect a judgement from 'straight pride UK' sounds rather difficult
<diddledan> 10am PDT
<penguin42> shauno: Oh yeh, it's just the proportions that feel so wrong
<diddledan> shauno, aye, I wonder how the court mandates a uk entity to pay a us fine
<shauno> and the 9th is a bit brave of Apple.  sounds like they've finally pulled off a DST switch without breaking the phone
<diddledan> I suppose the uk entity opened themselves up to it by using a us law
<shauno> which is quite lucky, the day before they push their watch  lol
<diddledan> speaking of DST and iPhone, I wonder how many fanbois are gonna miss it
<zmoylan-pi> they were an hour late because they forgot to change their clocks? :-)
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi, the iphone is supposed to do it for them. but it fails.
<shauno> right, that's what I was referring to :)
<zmoylan-pi> ms has a blind spot for leap years. and don't get me started on american date formats...
<shauno> have I idea no talking you're about :)
<popey> ebenink
 * penguin42 wonders if that was a password or almost what you use to draw on an eink display
<mapp> ah nice and sunny
 * mapp wore shorts and tshirt out:D
<mapp> bank holiday here tomorrow too..wonder if it means sunday night's busy like in the UK
<zmoylan-pi> it's officially spring when you can walk barefoot in bathroom and not freeze on contact with floor... :-)
<mapp> my floors get cold ..marbel floor but thats good for summer
<mapp> else il struggle with the 30+ i think
<mapp> next year il have to decide whether i pay the Â£1000+ and stay in gib or move to spain ...i love being near work is all;/
<mapp> well love because it means i spend no time travelling:D
<mapp> yay wordpress done
<mapp> thx daftykins i had the GRANT ALL slightly wrong
<daftykins> np
<daftykins> see, lovely paper notes ;)
<mapp> ASRGH
<mapp> cursor frozen again
<daftykins> o0
<mapp> happens loads to me on win8
<daftykins> factory install? ;)
<mapp> ja
<popey> penguin42: it was "evening" :)
<mapp> gah
<mapp> gain problems with squidGuard
<diddledan> just watching cloud atlas - the wachowskis got the dude who played agent smith in the matrixes to say a similar line to one he said in that. namely "there's a natural order to things"
<shauno> but they didn't get him to wear a faaabulous dress
<diddledan> o_O
<shauno> you haven't seen priscilla?!
<diddledan> nupe
<diddledan> is he in that then?
<shauno> oh dear god man.  go rent it from tpb or something
<shauno> http://www.imdb.com/media/rm2215216128/tt0109045
<shauno> that is one of the more tasteful outfits featured  lol
<Myrtti> :-D
<Myrtti> yeah, Priscilla ruined sooooo many films for me
<shauno> :D
<shauno> the best part was, I never put 2+2 together in my head.  watched the matrix, watched lotr, nada
<shauno> caught priscilla again on TV after those, and everything clicked into place
<Myrtti> Lord of the Rings, Matrixes, Memento and LA Confidential...
<shauno> Oh for goodness sake, Look at yourself Mitzi!
<foobarry> just bought a hudl2 \o/
<diddledan> ooh
<diddledan> whatcha di that fer :-p
<diddledan> do*
<popey> hehe
<popey> I just threw mine away
<foobarry> :P
<popey> :)
<foobarry> at end of the day , couldn't really compare to other tablets when i had tesco bouchers to use
<foobarry> was insterested to see the pricey latest samsung tab has 1.5gb ram and not the 2gb of the hudl
<popey> my brother bought a samsung galaxy tab 4
<popey> pretty but man they put some crap on that device
<foobarry> tesco have some crap on it too
<zmoylan-pi> all the android tablets seem to have crapware shoveled on
<foobarry> hudl is less likely to get a custom rom on it too
<foobarry> mind you mind wife's glaaxy tab 10.1 doesn't have a stbale recent rom either
<zmoylan-pi> i love watching a pile of apps i never use firing them selves up and taking ram and i can't remove them
<popey> hudl is less likely to get any kind of update at all
<popey> they throw it over the wall and forget it
<zmoylan-pi> the tesco way
<zmoylan-pi> another dvd successfully ripped
<daftykins> here's a fun cooking activity to do with youngsters - https://www.dropbox.com/sh/hxd8shzpv7tlwy5/AABg8FdPRi4Hwk7pHmtYSuFAa?dl=0
<daftykins> :D
<foobarry> going in with my eyes open
<popey> yeah, my kids make flapjack all the time
<popey> tis yummy
<popey> especially with apple or sultanas in it
<popey> or both
<daftykins> :o
<popey> and cinnamon
<popey> nom
<daftykins> so amazed at squeezeable golden syrup these days, when i was taught doing it as a kid, it was just those tins it was impossible to get a spoon out of
<foobarry> wife does flapjack with ginger
<zmoylan-pi> you had to work to get your syrup, none of this new namby pamby easy flo bottles
<foobarry> washing up the spoon was impossible unless you sucked it off
<popey> yeah, i had never seen squeezable golden syrup before that photo above
<popey> it's not right :)
<popey> just like squeezable jam and squeezable marmite
<zmoylan-pi> or just chuck it at the ceiling and leave it there :-)
<popey> all wrong
<daftykins> XD
<daftykins> i'm impressed at the above phrasing sneaking by without diddledan waking up
<mapp> gotta be up early tomorow
<mapp> friend gets here 11am
<mapp> grmpf
<mapp> could leave apartment door open but then he wont be able to get into the building;(
<foobarry> key on a rope
<zmoylan-pi> some sort of telephonic communication to let you know they've arrived..
<daftykins> walkie talkies
<shauno> doorbell.  11am isn't early :p
<zmoylan-pi> that's why i always have a whistle on my keyring.  comes in handy for communicating in crowds or over distance :-)
<popey> i had to throw stones at the window once to get wifey to come down and let me in
<popey> she'd left keys in the door
<daftykins> my parents would do that all the time :( it was a subtle hint to move out, i think
<popey> hah
<popey> one of the neighbours came home and asked if I wanted to kip on her sofa
<zmoylan-pi> that and renting out your room... :-)
<popey> eventually wifey woke up
<dogmatic69> I am about to buy my first steam game...
 * popey falls over
<popey> what you getting?
<dogmatic69> cities
<daftykins> first O_O
<dogmatic69> http://store.steampowered.com/app/255710/
<popey> i should stop buying games on steam till i finish the ones I have
<dogmatic69> :D
<popey> yeah, i saw that, looks good fun
<popey> seems spendy to me
<dogmatic69> I dont play much, but sim city has always been my fav
<daftykins> Ori and the Blind Forest comes out for xbox one on Wednesday \o/
<popey> I'd wait for a sale
<popey> eek, i have 219 games on steam now
<popey> only started using it when they made a Linux client
<dogmatic69> eh. and Â£20 is spendy...
<daftykins> that's more games than i've had since the platform first started XD
<daftykins> last night i was just into bed when i suddenly deeply desired an explanation for the end credit theme from 'Frasier'
<daftykins> http://kenlevine.blogspot.com/2012/04/story-behind-tossed-salad-and-scrambled.html
<daftykins> :D
<zmoylan-pi> when you spend 10 minutes taking a phone apart looking for the memory card slot...
<daftykins> did it have one?
<zmoylan-pi> yup, i inserted a card into it last year
<zmoylan-pi> the inside of the phone is matt black, the card is matt black, the card is tiny, there are dozens of little corners and sticky out bits...
<daftykins> was it really a card slot so much as a crevice? :D
<zmoylan-pi> took out the battery, removed the sim, poked at various other bits till i found the flush cover of the slot on outside of the phone...
<zmoylan-pi> i thought by ejecting the card and sticking it in usb reader i'd save time instead of transferring it over usb cable which is painfully slow when copying 10gb of music
<daftykins> still slow eh? :)
<zmoylan-pi> 30minutes to go, might be the card methinks
<zmoylan-pi> not sure why...
<daftykins> Class 10 / UHS 1?
<zmoylan-pi> it's inside a reader flush in this laptop so can't read it's designation.  annoying little sod #1 will do as a name till i get a chance...
<daftykins> :D
<zmoylan-pi> other than slow transfer speeds it hasn't given any trouble so i'm not sure if i'll take a hammer to it. considering how often the phone it's been in has been dropped it's taken a bit of abuse
<diddledan> https://twitter.com/EmrgencyKittens/status/574687287298166784/photo/1
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> i think i'd get concerning looks if i made Mischief a cat sized bed
<zmoylan-pi> you'd have moved into crazy cat person zone
<zmoylan-pi> just place cardboard box in cat sacrifice zone and be done
<Myrtti> pwaah. finally after a week of nearly every nights efforts, we managed to narrow down the amount of wedding portrait photos that we want to 12.
<daftykins> crikey
<Myrtti> who knew looking at photos of yours... oh actually.
<Myrtti> I actually did know I've got a chronic problem at looking at photos of myself.
<zmoylan-pi> get a relative who's taste you trust to make the decision?
<zmoylan-pi> or suggestions?
<Myrtti> nah.
<Myrtti> me and hubby just vetoed each other
<Myrtti> and even still ended up with 7 pictures more than what is included in the price of the photoshoot
<mapp> what to do now
<zmoylan-pi> invent a time machine
<zmoylan-pi> or a working jetpack
<zmoylan-pi> or antigravity
<zmoylan-pi> get back to us when you have a working prototype :-)
<daftykins> and have a friend clued in so we get posted youtube vids
<Myrtti> I wonder do non-geeky businesses realise what kind of reliability problems they have if they use an @aol.com or hotmail.com or yahoo.com or gmail.com email addresses as their contact address
<shauno> surely if he invents a time machine, he can tell us about it now :)
<shauno> curious, what problems?
<daftykins> yeah - what reliability?
<zmoylan-pi> maybe it's a sucky time machine that will only work within the paramaters of when he invented it and when he uses it so that it will only allow the earliest time to be arrived at as a moment after it is invented...
<diddledan> perception problems, yeah I'll give that
<Myrtti> I just feel iffy
<zmoylan-pi> hotmail was fairly sucky after ms bought it but has stayed up for last while
<zmoylan-pi> gmail is fairly bulletproof
<Myrtti> especially when they've got their own domain their site is on, and still listing @aol.com address on it
<Myrtti> WHY
<Myrtti> WHY DO YOU DO THAT
<Myrtti> whyyyyyy
<zmoylan-pi> because what matters to you doesn't seem important to them
<zmoylan-pi> it's strange but true
<Myrtti> I know.
<Myrtti> it just... bah. I wish I was less geeky sometimes
<zmoylan-pi> likewise if you drive and have a friend who sells/fixes cars some of your car choices will baffle them
<shauno> most the big free providers are a huge step up from using the address their isp provides  (do ISPs still do that?)
<zmoylan-pi> same for all specialities
<zmoylan-pi> depends on how old the isp is and what country they are in
<zmoylan-pi> i can't see russian isps saying go use gmail :-)
<shauno> my bigger o_O is when people use addresses like xXnaughtydevilXx@msn.com
<shauno> and you just have to stare at it and think - that's on your CV?
<zmoylan-pi> some people don't see the inappropiateness of that
<zmoylan-pi> they've used it so long they're blind to it
<shauno> speaking of reliability, seems bifolk will reboot my mailserver tomorrow night
<diddledan> bifolk?
<shauno> I understand why & I'm not complaining, but in the context of convo .. I can't imagine gmail getting rebooted any time soon ;)
<shauno> bitfolk lol
<shauno> trust you
<zmoylan-pi> well they probably reboot bits of it all the time and shuffle peoples accounts to other parts of it that still up
<daftykins> diddledan: you missed a corker earlier
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> that was a corker
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi, n0rty!
<daftykins> actually it was foobarry on this occasion ;)
 * diddledan rechecks
<diddledan> aah, yes
<diddledan> lucky spoon
<diddledan> I saw zmoylan-pi's utterance the line directly above
<diddledan> i.e. <zmoylan-pi> you had to work to get your syrup, none of this new namby pamby easy flo bottles
<diddledan> combined with his later utterance: <zmoylan-pi> or just chuck it at the ceiling and leave it there :-)
<daftykins> :)
<diddledan> really you can't talk about golden syrup without it degenerating
<shauno> no no no
<daftykins> i ate all that flapjack in one sitting.
<shauno> we can't talk about golden syrup without *you* degenerating
<diddledan> I don't think it's possible for me to degenerate any further than normal
<zmoylan-pi> he's like the doctor and only has a limited number of degenerations? :-P
<shauno> I've known dan for far too long.  this must be a very high number.
<popey> wait, you know wachother in the big blue room?
<shauno> nah, just another one of these rooms
<shauno> it's not just down the corridor - it's in another building.  but it's certainly not blue
<zmoylan-pi> probably is blue if you close the door on his hand...
<diddledan> sleepy time for me
<daftykins> diddledan: wow are you on normal time?
<shauno> I'm trying to keep mostly normal atm :/
<shauno> waiting for some deliveries, and we have ninja postmen.  it takes an all-day vigil to catch them
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> i had that last week
<daftykins> i still remember the smile on the wee post-lass with the cyle helmet's face
<shauno> d'awww
<daftykins> must've been something about my appearance, dashing from bed and throwing trousers on
<shauno> well, be glad you thought of that much
<daftykins> that's a point, if we call them postpersons... does that make them some form of evolution beyond us?
<shauno> 'postie' works for me
<shauno> trying to specify their species seems a tad redundant
<daftykins> yeah i say that too :D
<daftykins> i was more thining the PC phrase for gender neutrality
<daftykins> +k
<shauno> 'postie' achieves this too.  and doesn't even discriminate against when they eventually get replaced with flying robots.
<zmoylan-pi> you wouldn't send a valuable robot into a place you send a human postie
<shauno> I'm looking forward to it.  helicopters should be less sneaky than an post's ninjas
<shauno> either that, or get Amazon to use DPD.  they're already the future as far as I'm concerned
<daftykins> i think they stopped operating in Guernsey
<shauno> reminds me, one of my packages has been 'out for delivery' since 6am friday.  I'm tempted to believe he's actually spent the last 3 days driving around trying to find my house :)
<daftykins> shauno: must be those mismatched spelling signs
<mapp> installig postfix dovecot etc on my pi
<mapp> just messing about really
<mapp> ;d
<daftykins> ooooh dear :P
<daftykins> quick, /away away ;D
<mapp> ;]
<mapp> irritates me that its so hard to order pff amazon here
<mapp> :Z
<mapp> why is it
<mapp> laptops..tvs..phones.cant order anything to gib..spain like 5mins from border is fine
<mapp> but gib..nope
<mapp> so every time i have to get it sent to my friend
<mapp> or pay more in a local shop lol
<daftykins> try living here and going on ebay
<daftykins> "may not shop to Guernsey"
<daftykins> from London.
<mapp> heh
<mapp> but can you use amazon/
<mapp> seriously most things say no man
<mapp> 9/10 phone cables i couldnt even get shipped here
<daftykins> yeah, sometimes marketplace seller say no too though
<mapp> my friends torn his knee front ligament or something..so he cant come to Gibraltar this april..and means we cant go to slovakia as planned;/
<mapp> says it takes 6months to heal
<daftykins> =|
<mapp> see thats whack why cant i order..I mean EVERYTHING man..my lenovo laptop..i tried LOADS and loads of laptops
<mapp> all fine to UK/Spain.gib..nope
<mapp> is that not weird?
<mapp> so im limited to the rubbish choice in local shops
<mapp> or get it sent elsewhere
<daftykins> hey i thought your new laptop was another brand
<mapp> Lenovo
<daftykins> did you get it between September and December?
<mapp> i got a Toshiba before i left
<mapp> i got 2;p
<mapp> i bought a toshiba 17inch to bring to gib then left it in UK my bag was too heavy
<mapp> took my samsung rv520/samsung nc10/nexus7/ipad air
<mapp> then my rv520 broke:( so i ordered a lenovo
<daftykins> but was it September to December? :P
<mapp> wish id taken the 17inch and left the 15 now
<mapp> ya i think so why
<daftykins> did you check whether it's got superfish on it? or whatever that name was
<mapp> man so annoying brand new toshiba and i left it at home..i wanted to take 2 laptops + netbook but couldnt fit it in allowance
<mapp> so i tae the one that breaks of course
<mapp> lol
<mapp> nah i didnt
<mapp> should do though
<daftykins> yarr
<daftykins> https://filippo.io/Badfish/
<zmoylan-pi> superfish... sounds like a 80s band
<mapp> gonna be a busy year if my friend still wants to do it all
<daftykins> mapp: open the above in all browsers
<mapp> he's coming to Gibraltar..we're going to Czech and then catching train to Slovakia and then going to Ukraine at some point:D
<mapp> will do..2sec
<mapp> Ukraine will be exciting
<daftykins> O_O
<mapp> why O_O?
<daftykins> dunno :>
<mapp> they aent ISIS!
<mapp> but it's a very cold place in winter like russia..and obviously russia is fighting ukraine in crimea..but Kiev is miles from it
<mapp> the average wage is like $8k and the girls are beautiful
<mapp> so when i go as a rich westener
<mapp> maybe il bring 20 back
<mapp> :D
<mapp> well rich in their eyes..all relative really
<daftykins> bottles? ;)
<mapp> 20 ukraine girls:D
<mapp> im sure the rent in ukraine isnt same as here so when people say average wages its all relative
<mapp> but id much rather go to ukraine than somewhere like tenerife
<mapp> yawn
<mapp> sit in the sun with british chavs get sun burnt and drink cheap alcohol...great
<daftykins> i don't think either'd be on my list :D
<mapp> thing is
<mapp> i find it interesting going to these countries
<mapp> as they arent the same as UK..but france/germany /holland are basically the same..just diff language and diff area of the world
<mapp> the buildings..the eay of life..it's all diff in czech/russia/latvia/ukraine
<daftykins> i was amazed how different Spain was
<mapp> really?
<daftykins> yip
<mapp> i always think spain's a dump
<mapp> or at least here
<mapp> la linea de concepcion
#ubuntu-uk 2016-03-07
<diddledan> the night manager is suspendersfull
<mappps> hi
<knightwise> good morning everyone
<zmoylan-pi> be careful out there, it's monday
<knightwise> hey zmoylan-pi :) yep , i had my share of monday :)
<popey> morning
<knightwise> hey popey
<knightwise> congrats for you Nan turning centenial :)
<popey> :)
<popey> apparently she's managed 85 billion miles around the sun
<davmor2> popey: are we talking about how trumps beauty therapist keeps him so orange?
<davmor2> Morning all
<zmoylan-pi> trump needs to be tangoed by the only person more orange than himself...
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: hahahaha
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: you mean David Dickenson and Dale Winton needs to tango Trump I could see that being an awesome advert :D
<zmoylan-pi> none of the oompa loompas from willy wonkas factory available...
<foobarry> we have chickenpox in our house :(
<diplo> Morning all, anyone here had to deal with a domain dispute before? No any details. Basically a customer of ours company was bought out, along with staff, the guy still owns the company names, but the staff had the domain registered to his name and the new company won't release it to him
<zmoylan-pi> get back to me when you have shingles... :-)
<foobarry> i don't think i can catch shingles from chickenpox
<foobarry> but you can catch chickenpox from shingles i think
<foobarry> sounds messy diplo
<zmoylan-pi> nah, you usually get chickenpox as a kid and then the virus waits till you're older and comes back as shingles
<diplo> Yeah it is, the customer isn't technical and is totally lost :/
<zmoylan-pi> i got shingles at 14...
<foobarry> oof
<diplo> I've never had to deal with disputes before, just with everything else comain related
<diplo> domain*
<knightwise> morning diplo foobarry
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<foobarry> o/
<knightwise> Homebrow is the chizzle on OSx :)
<knightwise> Nice Linux commands straight from the osx commandline :)
<knightwise> Like Youtube-dl, ranger and mpv
<zmoylan-pi> and you can now imitate windows and install ransomware now :-D
<knightwise> zmoylan-pi: i heard. apparently a lot of apps are impacted (Vlc, transmission etc ? )
<foobarry> . However, the varicella zoster virus can be spread from a person with shingles to someone who has never had chicken pox. The unfortunate recipient might develop chicken pox, but not shingles.
<knightwise> actually set ClamAV to update its virus defenitions daily and scan on a weekly basis.
<foobarry> clamav, thats a blast from teh past
<zmoylan-pi> running av on a mac... just seems wrong...
<knightwise> foobarry: its one of the few AV's that is available for the mac
<knightwise> zmoylan-pi: i think its a reality. Never caught anything except some exe files in my mail cache
<MooDoo> morning all
<knightwise> hey MooDoo
<MooDoo> knightwise: I only heard about transmission, but VLC as well?  ouch
<knightwise> Yep ,
<knightwise> Looks like OSX finally hit puberty :)
<zmoylan-pi> the difference is osx will slam windows... :-P
<knightwise> hmm.. still don't think one os will win over the other. MS has matured a lot over the last couple of years.
<knightwise> both platforms have a lot to offer.
<zmoylan-pi> telemtry... ugly ui...
<knightwise> Just deleted transmission off the mac. Needz a new torrent client now.
<diplo> Transmission on your PI using the webui or a remote client :)
<knightwise> Already using that :) Transmission-cli does what it needs to do :)
<diplo> Me to
<\sve> Hey how to set up a basic vpr server using my laptop (Asus k53u) as the server and my Nexus 7 as the client (tablet runs Android and the laptop runs Ubuntu desktop)
<MooDoo> knightwise: can you get qbittorrent for the mac?
<\sve> VPN server rather
<\sve> https://www.digitalocean.com/community/tutorials/how-to-set-up-an-openvpn-server-on-ubuntu-14-04 found this but not sure if it's a server or desktop thing?
<diplo> \sve: Not sure there will be desktop support for the server side of openvpn so that would probably suffice, all depends whether your laptop is directly connected to the internet or whether you're nat'd
<\sve> Diplo sorry do you mean directly connected to the network via cat5?
<diplo> Nope, as in that you'll need to forward your connection to your laptop via router if the laptop is not connected directly to the internet, as most likely it'll be nat'd
<\sve> I don't understand. "Nat'd"
<diplo> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Network_address_translation
<knightwise> I have the sweetest twenty one year old intern next to me who is completely clueless about how to handle social media
<knightwise> showed her around in the "podcasting world" and she now thinks i'm a rockstar :) Hilarious
<zmoylan-pi> mutter mutter... powercut...
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: well if you insist /me cuts zmoylan-pi power
<zmoylan-pi> it's odd how you react when power goes. i just flipped over to battery powered devices.  had enough power for 24hours on ancient devices v 4-8 on modern devices
<diddledan> ebenink
<daftykins> o hai
<daftykins> the channel was so clear i could see the coastline of France the other day - https://www.dropbox.com/sh/v5c89h6yjrhn1ex/AAAfcmLMN7ZLakiiMs8dP5nUa?dl=0
<m0nkey_> wut? https://blogs.microsoft.com/blog/2016/03/07/announcing-sql-server-on-linux/
<daftykins> ooh-err
<zmoylan-pi> well you do want it as far away as possible from your exchange server... :-P
<diddledan> wut?
<diddledan> so is this a reinvention of "embrace extend extinguish" or do MS really believe in linux?
<zmoylan-pi> ms wants linux dead, if that means putting their software on linux so that people using linux end up paying for it then so be it
<zmoylan-pi> anything to reduce the number of techs who have no knowledge whatsoever of ms and their products
 * diddledan tries running WordPress against SQLServer :-p
<MartijnVdS> apt install ...
<diddledan> so my UPS overheated while I was away at the weekend
<diddledan> it was rather warm when I got home yesterday
<diddledan> I've unplugged it and disconnected the battery entirely
<diddledan> to disconnect the battery I pulled the manual circuit breaker out from the back of the unit
<diddledan> (I think it's designed for shipping but it will suffice for this purpose :-p)
<popey> hm
<popey> my bank has a "download as xls" thing
<popey> but when I download, it aint an xls file
<diddledan> oooh
<daftykins> csv?
<diddledan> funky
<diddledan> xlsx?
<zmoylan-pi> pdf? :-)
<daftykins> didn't you have some UPS trouble recently too, or was it someone else?
<diddledan> daftykins, my mac battery is dangerous
<popey> it's just html
<zmoylan-pi> it's a ups, it's supposed to give trouble :-)
<popey> a table
<daftykins> diddledan: oh yeah, that! how'd it go with Apple?
<diddledan> I've not contacted them yet
<daftykins> =|
<diddledan> haven't touched the mac since, so it's not caught fire through being used
<daftykins> may as well crack the lid and remove it i'd think?
<diddledan> I decided not to do that due to the packages being flexipacks
<diddledan> there's no substance other than the innards
<daftykins> the bound up cells?
<daftykins> i wonder if it's done any damage to the casing
<diddledan> the batteries are pretty much similar to voyager's gelpacks :-p
<awilkins> Only they don't think or become infected by cheese bacteria
<zmoylan-pi> might depend on the type of cheese...
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi, athlete's foot cheese
<diddledan> seriously how do random people decide they should follow me on twitter? https://twitter.com/MissMonicaOriel just followed me out of the blue - I've never heard of her
<zmoylan-pi> twitter does recommends, some people just follow random names, some are bots...
<zmoylan-pi> i'll often click on a persons tweets who has followed me to see if they tweet interesting things.  i may (<10% of the time) follow back
<zmoylan-pi> or i may not follow but add them to a twitterlist
<diddledan> https://youtu.be/mOBQXuu_5Zw
<diddledan> swarm-logic ai is impressive
<diddledan> does azure run windows? https://channel9.msdn.com/Shows/Azure-Friday/FAQ-with-Mark-Russinovich-Does-Windows-Azure-run-Windows-
<diddledan> MAME is free finally: http://mamedev.org/?p=422
<popey> \o/
<popey> I remember the first time I heard about MAME was... hmmm
<popey> some time ago
<popey> 1995 maybe?
<popey> 93?
<diddledan> you're old :-p
<popey> oh, 1997 apparently was the first release
<diddledan> regarding emulation in general - I have a copy of Bleem! here
<diddledan> that was the commercial thing to emulate the original PlayStation on a PC
<diddledan> got sued out of existence \o/
<popey> i recall that
<popey> Around the time of MAME first version there was another multi-system emulator which had a nice UI
<popey> sparcade iirc
<diddledan> I fancy trying to build one of these: https://www.element14.com/community/docs/DOC-80946/l/pik3a-the-raspberry-pi-3-ikea-retro-gaming-table
<popey> http://www.sparcade.freeserve.co.uk/ woah
<popey> I have a picade
<popey> just updated it to pi 3
<popey> it's ace
<diddledan> nice
<popey> running retropie (thanks exobuzz)
<exobuzz> :-)
<popey> scraping takes a while
<exobuzz> 110000 downloads of retropie 3.6
<popey> (when you have 20K spectrum games)
<popey> wow
<exobuzz> popey, you using the scraper from retropie-setup setup/configuration menu ?
<exobuzz> it's much quicker than the one built into emulationstation
<popey> uh
<popey> yeah, the one in emulationstation
<popey> feels like it's rate limited by the backend server
<exobuzz> try sselph's scraper - you need to exit emulationstation and then cd ~/RetroPie-Setup; sudo ./retropie-setup.sh
<exobuzz> (it can't be run at the same time as ES since it messes with ES gameslists)
<popey> kk
<exobuzz> 20k speccy games ? so long as you have  batty and chaos in there
<exobuzz> was playing batty yesterday
<mapps> hi :D
<mapps> picade hmm
<popey> oh i loved batty when it first came out
<popey> loved that covertape
<exobuzz> yeh was a goodun
<mapps> hmmm maye i should try retropi
<popey> exobuzz: where is the scraper in setup?
<popey> oh, 319!
<popey> got it
<popey> This. Is. Magic.
<mapps> i found playing roms to always be a huge pain:D
<exobuzz> popey, quicker ? I have to admit I don't think I ever tested it for speccy stuff
<popey> it's chugging away now :)
<daftykins> diddledan: was it yourself speaking of the likelihood of PHP7 on 16.04 - do you know if it is or not?
<diddledan> I believe 7 is in the repo now
<daftykins> ah har, ta - user asking over in #ubuntu
<diddledan> the package has been renamed to php7.0 to not conflict with php or php5.0
#ubuntu-uk 2016-03-08
<mapps> gah i hate these stone floors
<mapps> cant seem to keep them clean ;/
<daftykins> cover 'em in newspaper :D
<mapps> every single day just dust and dirt, i wear fliflops around as the floor gets cold
<mapps> maybe i should get slippers
<mappps> daftykins,  reckon uk leaves eu
<mappps> ?
<mappps> talk about if the uk does..spain might a) close the border or b) take control of gib
<mappps> if border was closed..well loads of people couldnt get to work..and well couldnt get anything in here, would ruin gib
<daftykins> couldn't care less, i'm in neither :)
<mappps> most restaurants/bars have spanish workers
<mappps> o
<mappps> i thought it said it could affect you too though due to special concessions places get due to uk being in eu
<mappps> would go
<daftykins> *shrug*
<daftykins> no, we're outside of the EU so anyone here trading with EU countries has to go to extra lengths to do so i think
<mappps> ah
<mappps> hm
<mappps> ive got a headache;/
<mappps> hm bit tired, slee time for me
<mappps> ;D
<knightwise> good morning peeps
<\sve> Mornin
<knightwise> so .. SQL is on linux now
<davmor2> knightwise: MSSQL we've had SQL on Linux for an age :P
<davmor2> morning all
<knightwise> indeed
<knightwise> good morning davmor2
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<JamesTait> Good morning all!  Happy Tuesday, and happy International Women's Day! ð
<davmor2> JamesTait: not goth day then
<davmor2> JamesTait: and welcome back slacker
<JamesTait> Hey, I travelled half way around the world to do your job for you. ð
<davmor2> JamesTait: no you didn't, You really, really didn't :P
<JamesTait> I make it, you break it, right? ð
<davmor2> JamesTait: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cqrk3DXV9go
<JamesTait> That'll do. âº
<n1md4> morning!
<n1md4> I've recently installed Ubuntu with encryption using the installer, to a 480G SSD.  I have just noticed not all the disk was used.  443.2G / and 4G swap.  Any idea what's going on here?  Looks too large to be a round issue.
<brobostigon> what does fdisk/gparted say about it?
<n1md4> fdisk gave me those numbers
<davmor2> n1md4: encrypted home or encrypted lvm?
<n1md4> home
<n1md4> ah, parted reports 476GB
<n1md4> still think that's quite a large rounding difference, but suppose I could do the maths.
<brobostigon> how can you just have encrypted /home when /home on / and not seperate, mustnt that mean then the whole of / is encrypted?
<davmor2> brobostigon: it uses ecryptfs for home folder
<brobostigon> ah.
<davmor2> brobostigon: it is done so you can have separate keys per user
<brobostigon> i see, :)
<davmor2> brobostigon: https://help.ubuntu.com/12.04/serverguide/ecryptfs.html
<brobostigon> thank you.
<knightwise> hey brobostigon
<brobostigon> hi knightwise
<diddledan> microsoft is getting silly - they've joined the eclipse foundation (people holding the Eclipse IDE) https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/visualstudio/2016/03/08/microsoft-joins-the-eclipse-foundation/
<davmor2> diddledan: they are trying to be Linux and get everywhere :)
<agoodm> hello all, how can I permanently disable mouse acceleration for a usb mouse but not my trackpad device (laptop computer with 15.10) ive managed this previously on 14.04lts but cant recall how I did it?
<agoodm> I can do it temporarilly by running xset m 00 in a terminal but it gets tiring
<n1md4> agoodm: open mouse and touchpad setting.  On my install there are separate mouse and touchpad speeds.  You have those?
<n1md4> my install is wily
<agoodm> n1md4, I have mouse and touchpad speed, but I seem to be getting acceleration no matter where I set the pointer speed sliders
<n1md4> Oh, can't help you there then.
<n1md4> Sorry.
<MagicSponge> http://ubuntuonair.com/ IN ten minutes.
<Laney> anyone know about PCI DSS or similar?
<Laney> Company wants me to write my credit card number on a pdf form and then email it to them
<Laney> don't really want to do that...
<davmor2> Laney: then send a cheque
<Laney> yes thanks I can think of workarounds
<Laney> I want to make an argument that they should stop asking for this
<awilkins> Well i) Plain email is a transparent protocol. You'll be giving your CC no. to every server that email crosses
<popey> (I think he knows this)
<StevenR_> Laney: you might violate your CC Ts&Cs by doing that (the CC co expect you to take reasonable care of your CC details)
<StevenR_> Laney: so by sending the CC number in plain... you're failing to take due care of your card details.
<Laney> nice
<Laney> I think I can say that it violates PCI DSS requirements to transmit details in plain text
<Laney> not quite clear to me yet if those are mandatory though
<Laney> think it's part of the contract with the card service provider
<StevenR_> Laney: I suspect that it doesn't violate PCI DSS because the risk is on you, not the merchant in this case.
<StevenR_> Laney: so the merchant is not implicated in this case, because they're not doing the transmitting.
<diddledan> Laney, AFAIK PCI DSS is a requirement for _any_ company that handles credit card details themselves - using paypal means you don't need to comply becasue paypal collect the details directly in that case (e.g.)
<Laney> StevenR_: They are receiving my details unencrypted
<diddledan> StevenR_, a company is required to ensure that transmission and storage of credit card details they collect be secure, I believe
<Laney> diddledan: ok, then in that case they do need to comply
<diddledan> I believe PCI DSS mandates HTTPS for webforms for example
<Laney> I reckon they've sent me me a PDF of the same form that customers that visit them in the outlet have to fill in with pen & paper
<Laney> I wonder if *that* is also a violation
<Laney> or if they put (for example) it in a locked cabinet it would be okay
<diddledan> I bet they're printing it out :-p
<Laney> probably a stack of them goes to the back office for the administrator to type into some other form to charge people
<Laney> (and then when they go rogue to snaffle the details from)
 * StevenR_ hates over-the-phone CC transactions.
<diddledan> new version of chrome https://youtu.be/GNP-_ncY3ZA?list=PLNYkxOF6rcIDfz8XEA3loxY32tYh7CI3m
<diddledan> StevenR_, me too
<diddledan> I much prefer to use the internet if I can help it
<diddledan> I trust the SSL mechanism much more than reading a number loud enough for my neighbour to hear
<Laney> always fun when they read it aloud back to you
<Laney> "umm, could you just type it in silently please?"
<zmoylan-pi> just don't do over the phone cc on hands free on public transport and you'll be grand... :-)
<MagicSponge> Sup. Any Thome York fans out there .. ?
<daftykins> Radiohead guy? never really looked
<diddledan> watching the first ep of quantico - completely blew my expectations straight away
<MagicSponge> diddledan: That thing on Sky ? I think I missed it last time I looked.
<diddledan> no idea where it's being broadcast :-p
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> lawl broadcast
<diddledan> nzbdrone ftw
<daftykins> paying the wrong people, eww
<lanamana> well hello
<daftykins> hi
<zmoylan-pi> flippin drive hi's...
<daftykins> ikr
 * diddledan drives past and fires a barrage of drive-by "hi" bullets
<diddledan> don't you love that we have a common phrase that is derived directly from murderous gangs?
<daftykins> 'tis a fine sign!
<diddledan> mouldy bread :-(
<diddledan> it's green
<diddledan> bread isn't supposed to be green IIRC
<diddledan> on the plus side, free penicilin
<n1md4> evening.  is it possible to 'encrypt' an image?
<diddledan> yes.
<n1md4> what's the tool?  I've searched a bit, but can't find.
<diddledan> many.
<diddledan> you could use GPG
<n1md4> hmm, yes.  I was playing around with GPG on text files, and decided without checking that it couldn't do images .... doh!  Thanks :)
<diddledan> gpg can encrypt anything
#ubuntu-uk 2016-03-09
<Azelphur> Dang, my old boss is going for the high score
<Azelphur> He didn't pay me for 3 months so I quit (In December) I just spoke with a nice lady on Skype who called me up after paying him $6k to build a website for her business and he didn't deliver, he has been assuring her that I was working on her website
<Azelphur> Pretty crazy, sounds like he's literally using my name to scam people
<Azelphur> at least, if what I hear is correct
<diddledan> Azelphur, damn
<Azelphur> yea, he even had her directly pay money into my bank account, it's one nasty looking MITM scam
<diddledan> wtf?
<diddledan> so he gave your bank details to someone and got them to perform a transaction that you didn't even know about
<Azelphur> told me his bank was bouncing the transactions and wouldn't let him send to UK, so he sent the money to a colleague who then forwarded it onto me, when in reality it sounds like what I explained given what I'm hearing
<Azelphur> I knew about it in the sense that it was supposed to be from him, just from a different account
<diddledan> dang
<diddledan> sounds like he's doing something rather dodgy
<Azelphur> yup, be interesting to see how all this pans out, I forwarded the lady my letter of resignation from when I worked for him and she seems to want to hire me anyway to actually work on her website, so calling it a win?
<diddledan> of course getting a third-party to pay you directly he can avoid all tax liability (just thought of that 50 minutes later :-p)
<mapps> hi
<diddledan> jeez, 2016, stop killing everyone!
<diddledan> ref: https://twitter.com/BBCBreaking/status/707447904642985985
<mapps> ;]
<mapps> 90 is a good age!
<MooDoo> morning all
<zmoylan-pi> wednesday... the weekend is in sight...
<diddledan> wednesday ftw
<JamesTait> Good morning all!  Happy Wednesday, and happy Panic Day! ð
<zmoylan-pi> the vogons are here? now?!
<JamesTait> Also, happy Get Over It Day, which I'm sure is only coincidentally the same day as Panic Day. ð
<JamesTait> zmoylan-pi, grab your towel.
<zmoylan-pi> i have my towel within grasping distance
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zmoylan-pi> always know were your towel is kids...
 * brobostigon puts a ford prefect sign on zmoylan-pi's forehead.
<JamesTait> ð brobostigon
<brobostigon> :)
<awilkins> Share and Enjoy!
 * zmoylan-pi goes to make a hot drink almost entirely unlike tea...
<awilkins> Coffee?
<zmoylan-pi> instant coffee with sweetner and creamer in a friendly sachet...
<awilkins> INSTANT coffee?!? Where's your self-respect, man?
 * awilkins goes to grind some beans and use his Aeropress to redress the delicate balance
<zmoylan-pi> reduces the venn diagram of do it have a) power, b) kettle, c) cup, d) coffee, e) water, f) milk, g) sugar by 2
<awilkins> I drink it black
<awilkins> Because it's not instant, it's not so horrible that you need milk and sugar to mask the taste
<awilkins> :P
 * zmoylan-pi contemplates a wagon wheel for my coffee...
 * JamesTait considers an alfajor for his coffee...
<popey> JamesTait: i can now see your clapping hands \o/
<popey> installed Noto font
<popey> ð   \o/
<JamesTait> ð
<JamesTait> So of course what naturally follows is ð©
<popey> :)
<JamesTait> Aren't you glad you installed that font now? ð
<popey> I am, yes.
<popey> :)
<popey> it all came about in another irc channel because there was a ð´  in the /topic to indicate an evening out
<davmor2> JamesTait: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KxtPRF6NG7I along with https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xS358WbnS_k and this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgIva9-vNsE
<JamesTait> That reminds me, I really should get hold of HHGTTG to watch with Connagh.
<zmoylan-pi> the tv show or the movie?
<brobostigon> the former is preferred, :)
<JamesTait> The TV show.  I've got the movie somewhere on DVD.
<zmoylan-pi> the tv show is on youtube
<zmoylan-pi> saw a link on reddit a few months back... ::goes to check::
<zmoylan-pi> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tTNuldPhP20
<JamesTait> https://youtu.be/tTNuldPhP20 - right. âº
<zmoylan-pi> it's nice that the tv marvin made it into the movie as did the actor who played arthur
<diplo> Any of you guys integrated an existing svn repo with redmine? Is it easy? And chances of me breaking stuff :)
<mapps> hm
<mapps> no;]
<davmor2> diplo: that is a damn silly question, there is always a chance of stuff breaking :)
<diplo> :p
<daftykins> think i saw someone in here mention they run one of the netgear ReadyNAS - just started doing some work for my uncle who has a Duo v2, but the available packages seems ridiculously limited
<daftykins> does appear to run a debian base, but i feel like it might be a colossal mistake to try and waste time hacking on some manually compiled things such as the VPN access i'm tempting by
<popey> Yeah, I have a Netgear readynas
<daftykins> have you got one of the ones with this RAIDiator OS v3.x.x ?
<popey> no idea, it's just a box under my desk
<daftykins> ah ok so only been worried about the samba/NFS and that's it?
<popey> ReadyNas 104
<popey> none of the apps in the store take my fancy as I have proper servers for that kind of thing
<daftykins> yeah, i think their low specs (NASs) would be prohibitive anyway
<awilkins> diplo, It's pretty easy
<awilkins> As long as the repo is on the same box as the Redmine instance
<awilkins> (I think)
<awilkins> If you stick in a post-commit hook you can have comments live-update tickets too
<awilkins> Ah, nope, you don't even need it to be on the same box
<awilkins> That's a limitation when using Git
<diplo> ah great awilkins thanks, not sure how well redmine will work on the vm, but can take a look as there is a git repo as well as SVN
<diplo> But only me and one other use git
<awilkins> What kind of VM?
<awilkins> Have you installed Redmine yet?
<awilkins> It doesn't need a lot, I think I've put it on VMs with as little as 256MB of RAM
<diplo> Sorry stuck on the phone, not installed it yet, think I'm going to set up a local vm, create a repo or import one and try setup compared to our live server
<diplo> Vmware VM, centos6 32bit probably 768ram
<diplo> If Redmine is low resource that's fine :)
<diddledan> nice! http://www.ebuyer.com/625819-gigabyte-brix-gb-bxpi3-4010-barebone-pc-with-built-in-projector-gb-bxpi3-4010
<diddledan> shame the resolution is only x480
<diddledan> WVGA (864 x 480)
<awilkins> diplo, My recommendation is to use rbenv
<awilkins> diplo, My rbenv recipe works properly on Ubuntu AND CentOS. Using packages is just asking for a headache.
 * davmor2 is listening to David Bowie Platinum Collection 
<daftykins> wow my mate in England has just messaged to say a car has crashed into his roadside cabinet and knocked out all the phone lines and broadband in the area
<zmoylan-pi> wow, no netflix, internet or facebook... he should start a betting pool on number of births in 9 months...
#ubuntu-uk 2016-03-10
<daftykins> Fireball XL-5 colourised edition - bluray :D
<daftykins> if you have an android phone, search on the google play store for 'irc' then look at the first screenshot for 'Yaaic' - i'm famous!
<diddledan> I _REALLY_ suck at soldering
<diddledan> the good news however, is I have a soldering iron \o/
<daftykins> i feel you now know just enough to be dangerous
 * daftykins squints and grips the fire extinguisher
<diddledan> so. I built a thing. and it seems to be working
<diddledan> I'm amazeballed
<daftykins> RoTM </theregister>
<diddledan> RoTM?
<daftykins> rise of the machines! </terminator>
<diddledan> aah
<diddledan> gotcha
<diddledan> yes
<daftykins> said Noel Edmonds
<mapps> hi
<knightwise> morning peepz
<diddledan> morning
<knightwise> hey diddledan how are ya today
<diddledan> good here
<diddledan> upgrading a pi to raspbian jessie right now
<diddledan> (model B+)
<diddledan> (I think it's a B+ anywho - I lost track of the revisions)
<diddledan> I got busy last night with a soldering iron \o/
<knightwise> got an interesting question from a client yesterday
<knightwise> he wants an un-motion detector
<knightwise> a webcam that alerts him when motion on a certain machine STOPS
<diddledan> hmm
<diddledan> can you prove a negative?
<knightwise> been wracking my brain on how to research that . Softwarewise its just about switching the "trigger" from "when it moves' to "when it doesnt' but ... how do i google that.
<knightwise> take 5 pictures, compare them. if they are different everything is ok
<knightwise> if 5 of them are exactly the same : alert
<diddledan> I think I'd do it in two steps - set up motion sensing and then invert the output
<diddledan> so 1 when motion detected becomes 0 and vicky verky
<diddledan> you want the motion sensing bit to give you a straight boolean output
 * diplo agrees with diddledan 
<diplo> Could test with a normal PIR depending on the machine
<diplo> Wouldn't it be better to try and actually interact with the machine?
<diddledan> I can do very shoddy soldering now!
<diddledan> solder all the things!
<MooDoo> morning all
<zmoylan-pi> if the machine has any vibration then balancing a mouse in such a way that the mouse pointer trembles would capture motion
<knightwise> zmoylan-pi: its a printerpress , so that would work.
<knightwise> so when the mouse stops jittering, an alert goes of ?
<MartijnVdS> screensaver comes on
<MartijnVdS> which sends a dbus msg
<knightwise> hmmm.. now there is something :)
<zmoylan-pi> bonus points to set up cdrom drive eject to turn it off and on again if necessary... :-)
<diplo> hahahah in a nerdy irc channel by chance :D
<zmoylan-pi> there are non nerdy irc channels?
<diplo> Yeah, well maybe not on Freenode :)
<davmor2> Morning all
<MooDoo> morning davmor2
<JamesTait> Good morning all!  Happy Thursday, and happy Mario Day! ð
<davmor2> JamesTait: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xPncniRuoPs
<JamesTait> davmor2, day made.
<JamesTait> I may as well pack up now.  It's not going to get any better than that.
<JamesTait> https://www.daysoftheyear.com/days/day-of-awesomeness/
<davmor2> JamesTait: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9cQgQIMlwWw
<Myrtti> http://livestream.com/tinykittens/savina how about miracle of birth?
<Myrtti> Warning: contains blood and gore
<Myrtti> and kittens
<JamesTait> Myrtti, that takes me back 15 years....
<Myrtti> miu miu miu
<knightwise> there is a nyancat package in homebrew on OSX
<knightwise> *awesome*
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<MooDoo> morning brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo
<MooDoo> how are you brobostigon ?
<brobostigon> not bad, could be better, and you?
<MooDoo> full of cold, but ok
<brobostigon> :( hope better soon.
<MooDoo> thanks
<brobostigon> :)
<knightwise> today appears to be #noconcentrationday for me
<diddledan> procrastinate day for me
<zmoylan-pi> meh, leave that till tomorrow... :-)
<diddledan> I'm messing with GPS+NTP
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: ooh fun!:)
<MartijnVdS> "plain" serial or USB? (remember the latency..)
<diddledan> it's on a pi via the gpio headers for serial-nmea/gps and an additional pin for kernel-based pps
<MartijnVdS> ah cool
<diddledan> my soldering work was shoddy tho :-p
<MartijnVdS> :D
<diddledan> guess when I got the config sorted: https://www.dropbox.com/s/qcs32cjpbb1h0rg/ntp-initial-sync.bmp?dl=0
#ubuntu-uk 2016-03-11
<diddledan> is mir usable yet on non-embedded systems?
<daftykins> i thought it burnt up in the atmosphere ;D
<zmoylan-pi> ...or so they would have us believe... :-P
<daftykins> dun dun duuuuun
<daftykins> client is having such trouble with that surface pro 4 she wants it sent for repair now
<daftykins> guess muggins here is gonna have to arrange all that
<zmoylan-pi> a ms product misbehaving... say it ain't so...
<daftykins> ikr!
<zmoylan-pi> any actual problem or just unhappy with it?
<daftykins> yeah it's buggy as all hell
<daftykins> she says she took the risk of trying to take it to Jersey today, got to the airport... wouldn't turn on
<zmoylan-pi> well that should do it
<diddledan> didn't they make a movie about that? space cowboys
<zmoylan-pi> i love that movie
<zmoylan-pi> has right level of silliness and story
<daftykins> ah well best sleep and attack this thing in the morning i suppose
<daftykins> i'm feeling ultra smug at saying to avoid the things the entire time ;D
<zmoylan-pi> if the bootloader wasn't locked you could get a better os on there
<daftykins> i don't think that's what's up
<zmoylan-pi> i've seen them about.  i have seen people slapping them when they didn't respond or respond fast enough for the user
<daftykins> i think all touch is daft though :>
<zmoylan-pi> nowt like the feed back from a good button
<daftykins> actually i need to qualify that as tablet/laptop wannabe touch, since smartphone touch is fine - apart from the constant screen cleaning ;)
<daftykins> i originally championed and did get a Lenovo X1 carbon laptop and that gets the highest of praise from the same client, so yeah - surface is the pits ;)
 * zmoylan-pi tried moving android media player at home up to media player when out and about. battery life plunged of course but the fm radio and mp3 players on android suck
<daftykins> what kind of media player? o0 not a phone i take it
<zmoylan-pi> a cheapo tesco android phone a huawei y625. got it for â¬60 on special
<zmoylan-pi> am using it as pedometer to encourage me to walk more
<zmoylan-pi> as fm radio it's max volume is to low to use on footpath by busy road
<daftykins> loudspeaker or earphones?
<zmoylan-pi> headset. loudspeaker would be rude to others
<zmoylan-pi> good sennheiser headset.  works great on my nokias for same purpose
<daftykins> *nod* i didn't have you pegged as a teenager ;D
<zmoylan-pi> it's a nice device but it just reminds me how... 2nd rate android feels to me now compared to dumbphones
<zmoylan-pi> having to stare at screen for such simple things as changing radio stations
<daftykins> thing is, you're buying the worst implementation of the OS and calling that indicative of the entire platform
<daftykins> if i bought an Asus Eee PC netbook today and put full on unity ubuntu on it and said "this sucks" it'd be the same vibe, to my mind
<zmoylan-pi> i've had 4+ android devices now and it's no better/worse than the others... for my list of requirements which seems to differ from most it has to be said
<daftykins> i am annoyed by how all smartphones seem to have a set timer before they self destruct and run like a malware laden Windows machine
<daftykins> (in the hands of a teenager, i should add, just to sharpen the blow)
<zmoylan-pi> i'd tolerate android a *lot* more if they made a real attempt at bettering the battery life instead of this obsession with thin no battery devices
<daftykins> heh yeah
<daftykins> ok i should go, didn't even get much sleep last night XD woke up and found another Dell XPS13 deal on the Dell outlet UK ;D Â£660 for another delivered with the nice spec
<zmoylan-pi> and the control of the os never quite seems to be in the hands of the user when the os is googles and they seem intent on selling you crap and app writers ignore guides on ui
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<daftykins> i've been fine with my Nexus devices aside from support dropping ;D
<daftykins> g'night all! :>
<diddledan> mycroft posted to their indiegogo 7 hours ago that "Those who have visited our website recently might have noticed a countdown clock. We have an exciting project to announce on the 14th." (the countdown is at https://mycroft.ai/)
<mapps> went up the med steps today
<zmoylan-1i> you'd think wikipedia would mention how long the trail is... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mediterranean_Steps
<mapps> heh
<mapps> pics from it
<mapps> <mapito> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CdM-tqqXIAEqBWi.jpg
<mapps> <mapito> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CdM-scLWAAEALHo.jpg:large
<mapps> <mapito> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CdM-rvPXEAAOaEL.jpg:large
<mapps> decent view eh
<zmoylan-1i> well... it probably helps when the weather isn't trying to freeze/drown you... :-)
<MooDoo> Morning all
<diplo> Morning all
<knightwise> mornign
<davmor2> Morning all
<knightwise> hey davmor2
<popey> word
<knightwise> how are you doing today
<knightwise> hey popey
<davmor2> thankfully it's friday
<knightwise> Very true
<davmor2> popey: you so street
<knightwise> popey: and his drive-by-raspberry-pie
<bittin> Morning :)
<knightwise> hey bittin
 * popey hugs his pi â¥
<bittin> my pies is left at home :)
<popey> blimey I have 7 of them now
<popey> getting out of hand
<bittin> i am waiting for a train and watching AsiaBSDCon
<knightwise> popey: they are like tribbles
<knightwise> Me has 2
<bittin> i got 3
<knightwise> currently chatting from one
<bittin> One Raspi 1 One 2 and One 3
<bittin> :p
<popey> three are powered on, one is in a picade, so that's good
<popey> rather than them sitting in a box
<bittin> i am chatting from a CentOS vm from my Windows 8 tablet
<bittin> gonna install a more sane OS on this Asus t200ta when i am less lazy
<bittin> :D
<knightwise> I have a 1 and a 2
<knightwise> I also run an elementary VM fullscreen on my mac (on a second virtual desktop-
<popey> bittin: do you know if it's possible to put linux on it?
<bittin> popey: no idea but i would think so its just an intel atom and standard things :p
<popey> hehe
<bittin> could try an ubuntu live cd when less lazy
<popey> brave :)
<bittin> or live usb nowdays
<popey> looks like a nice device
<bittin> but anyways
<bittin> heh won it at an IT Expo here a couple of years ago
<popey> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nsp8XFcAS7o is running it
<bittin> Dustin Expo 2014 or 2015
<popey> nice
<popey> free stuff \o/
<bittin> indeed
<bittin> time to listen to that Ubuntu Podcast on the train
<ali1234> popey: have you or anyone tried unity/mir on the anholt driver?
<JamesTait> Good morning all!  Happy Friday, and happy World Plumbing Day! ð
<popey> ali1234: hello! long time no see!
<popey> ali1234: I have never heard of anholt
<popey> (so probably not)
<ali1234> you've never heard of eric anholt?
<ali1234> well he works for broadcom and wrote a KMS driver for raspberry pi
<ali1234> it should in theory be able to run wayland, mir, proper accelerated X... all the good stuff
<popey> nice
<davmor2> JamesTait: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C5bBKsH0s5E
<davmor2> JamesTait: I think that covers you nicely right :)
<JamesTait> Nope. Not going to make it to the end of that one.
<davmor2> JamesTait: light weight
<JamesTait> I like cheese, don't get me wrong, but that's like living in a gorgonzola factory.
<davmor2> JamesTait: okay how about this one instead https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YpXPtAVdMIY&ebc=ANyPxKqutwxkFqzMSq3qcqubKqR-1xn2mmbAmedWy44y4G8ck0QSGn9Kl5lFviHiOl66kPGwM7h9i3QauQPQidnzLuKipjy2Cw
<Laney> ok, admit it, who put me on a conservative party email list?
<MooDoo> cough cough, wasn't me cough cough
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls,
<knightwise> hey brobostigon
<brobostigon> hi knightwise
<knightwise> hey brobostigon
<knightwise> listening to the podcast :)
<popey> \o/
<bittin> o/
<knightwise> damn .. almost weekend
<knightwise> just another grueling right of CCNA to get through
<diplo> Fatal road accident just outside of work :/
<diplo> No way in or out atm
<davmor2> knightwise: yeah and then you have to start on the left
<mapps> hhi
<mapps> lol
<mapps> anti smoking in gib
<mapps> its 2.20 a pack they import enough for everyne to smoke 10 packs a day
<mapps> what a sham
<popey> "The only way to win, is not to play"
<popey>  -- WOPR (1983)
<foobarry> wife's out so i'm catching up on episodes of Take Me Out
<daftykins> i saw a big banner about no smoking day at the top of town here
<foobarry> guilty pleasures
<mapps> i had my silver card taking away at the casino..for gving drinks to mates
<mapps> went in tonight
<mapps> idiot says 'wheres your silver card' dont have it, spoke to you 2 days ago'
<mapps> 'i not remember'
<mapps> they shouldnt emloy spanish people that cant speak english, gib is english
<foobarry> trying to make vagrant work with kvm instead of virtualbox
<foobarry> i suppose its the cross platform nature of vb that people use it, but i really not keen on it
<mapps> strange having no strip clubs near
<mapps> everywhere in uk has them
<foobarry> i only know of one. cambridge heath rd
<foobarry> looks grim.
<popey> yeah, my wife is out tonight too
<mapps> i know of two
<popey> and daughter is out at a _disco_!
<foobarry> popey: what you watching/doing
<mapps> st1/laces in stoke and errr that one in southsea
<mapps> ;]
<foobarry> vagrant and cheesy TV. win
<mapps> they are foobarry
<popey> considering playing silly computer gams
<popey> *games
<mapps> they are pretty grim but i kinda like going now and again
<mapps> casinos are pretty grim tbh , full of chavs and easy girls
<foobarry> i actively avoid casinos
<foobarry> but had to eat in one recently
<mapps> i go to them a lot, but i dont 'enjoy' them
<mapps> i used to go after work in u as i work nights, theyre open late
<foobarry> because work trip only paid for meals to certain price, and this was the only place for miles around
<foobarry> food was a bit like wetherspoon
<mapps> and i get free drinks:P i pay on card and mate just pretends we paid
<mapps> bought him 400 cigs back from gib last time
<mapps> ;]
<foobarry> i would probably have a weakness for casino games so didn't even go near
<mapps> theyre pretty boring, i play blackjack quite a lot
<mapps> and its dull after 30mins
<popey> i have never been in a casion
<mapps> but casinos are so boring there;'s nothing else
<popey> *casino
<popey> I can feel the money draining out of my bank account as I walk past
<foobarry> what i thouht strange was..
<foobarry> they had real machines e.g. roulette and blackjack
<mapps> no wonder im single, im a huge degenerate eh;)
<mapps> always at casinos or strip clubs and bars lol
<foobarry> but most people were in front of gaming terminal that did the same thing without the interaction or reality
<mapps> lol yea
<foobarry> mapps: try a creative class instead
<mapps> ive been in hills when i worked at gala 8yrs ago, people queue for fobts
<mapps> fixed odds betting terminals
<mapps> and this is people on average-low wage..not millionaires
<mapps> you see people punch them etc
<mapps> glad they took my silver card away, last time i was drunk there i lost Â£600
<mapps> when sober i wouldnt
<foobarry> chickenpox on oldest child seems to be going. waiting for youngest one to get it next
<foobarry> played with some asus chromebooks today, really nice hardware
<popey> arm or x86?
<popey> I quite fancy an arm one for doing armhf builds of stuff
<foobarry> didn't think to check, i assumed arm but not sure now
<foobarry> i saw the C300MA-RO043 and the 10 inch flip  C100PA-FS0002
<foobarry> the former one i really liked but assumed it was ARM. super thin hardware and nice feel
<foobarry> but ARM is preferred for battery and other reasons
<foobarry> my sons school just ordered 30 chromebooks for Â£6k. far better than the 6 macbooks they would have otherwise got
<foobarry> for the price
<popey> depends on your definition of "better"
<popey> bet the chromebooks won't last
<foobarry> better means a whole class can use them
<foobarry> the hardware seems as good as anything else and cheaper to replace if something happened
<foobarry> they also do little chromebox things aswell
<foobarry> smaller than mac mini
<diddledan> http://pbs.twimg.com/media/CdTOgo7UMAACvE3.jpg
<popey> foobarry: the other option is one of those Odroid things that has a SATA connector.
<directhex> i wish sata was more common on armhf
<directhex> aren't there like only 2 SOCs that have it, tegra and freescale i.mx?
<popey> no beagleboards?
<popey> Those odroids look tempting
<popey> http://www.hardkernel.com/main/products/prdt_info.php?g_code=G145457216438
<directhex> there's simply no reason to put an ahci controller in most arm socs, which are trying to sell to the phone market
<popey> GbE too. nice little board
<daftykins> as long as it doesn't put it on the USB like the Pis did
<popey> 2GB RAM too
<popey> No, the odroid has a real GbE
<daftykins> quite the high specs there, mm
 * popey imagines a little farm of them as build bots
<daftykins> that sounds awfully like another Alan's dream that we never saw come to fruition ;)
<popey> there are many of those
<daftykins> correct me if i'm wrong - but i was almost imagining a Pi3 as a VPN server for my uncles home recently, but it didn't look like you could have a conventional server install on them?
<popey> define "conventional server"
<diddledan> raspbian is available in a minimal format which you can then tailor to your needs with apt
<diddledan> ubuntu is only available on the pi in snappy form which requires relearning the way you do things, but AFAIK it is just as capable as a standard server
<popey> ubuntu mate is available
<popey> i dont know about "server" style minimal installs
<daftykins> it's nothing about any minimalism angle, just wanted a standard LTS with apt
<daftykins> i had ready talk of snappy which i didn't fancy - already concerned on the package availability front
<daftykins> as mentioned the other day i had hoped i could snag OpenVPN as an app for his Netgear NAS, but it turns out that one has essentially been dropped for support
<popey> guess you could use the Ubuntu MATE image and remove all the graphical stuff
<popey> shouldn't take much, remove xserver-xorg and it'll take everything else with it
<diddledan> I do really want to learn ubuntu snappy core and how to admin it and such. it's just that it seems a bit of a large mountain to climb with limited freetime to do so
<daftykins> that's non-LTS for the mo
<popey> true
<popey> diddledan: I've been playing with it recently on a pi here
<daftykins> as it goes he has a second identical laptop so i threw in a spare SATA HDD and did a trial run on there
<popey> quite a learning curve and it shifts underneath you a bit
<popey> probably good to play with in april, when it's more stable
<daftykins> he seems keen to have a second NAS so i might just get a synology which has an OpenVPN app properly
<daftykins> 3 SSDs and two RAM upgrades are on the way :D
<diddledan> \o/
<daftykins> though his silly little Acer SFF desktop thing only has two SATA ports =|
<diddledan> grr
<diddledan> I don't have enough sata ports and I'm using 6
<diddledan> I need 7
<diddledan> I'm considering swapping-out my board and amd-octacore cpu (bulldozer) with a same-era i7 920
<popey> my desktop is getting a bit crusty
<diddledan> I have the i7 sitting doing nothing so it's just a case of swapping them
<diddledan> though both are circa 2009 I think
<daftykins> mine too popey - core 2 quad with 8GB DDR2 built in December 2007
<popey> Q6600?
<daftykins> i'm right now using my Dell XPS13 9350 to xbox one stream from the lounge XD
<daftykins> popey: sure is! a fine workhorse
<daftykins> oh i benchmarked it against the above laptop in superpi, though a single-threaded test the laptop came in at half the time :S
<daftykins> lovely skylake
<popey> Right, bedlington
<popey> nn
<daftykins> \o
<daftykins> i've seen top end i7 skylake XPS desktops on Dell's outlet, but i don't think i could bring myself to use a factory machine ;)
#ubuntu-uk 2016-03-12
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<bittin> morning
<brobostigon> morning bittin
<MagicSponge> I'm actually checking all my subscriptions in youtube - I'm that bored at the moment.
<foobarry> got a special notebook and pen from my chinese restaurant. have been going for 25 yrs i suppose
<penguin42> haha
<zmoylan-pi> the pen is shaped like a clogged artery? :-D
<foobarry> nope, it runs out after 30 mins and you want another one
#ubuntu-uk 2016-03-13
<mapps> hi :D
<mapps> hmm
<mapps> noone around too early;]
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<amunizp> Good morning
<brobostigon> morning amunizp
<amunizp> o/
<amunizp> you wouldn't know about luks encryption brobostigon ?
<brobostigon> no, sorry.
<awilkins> Recommends for cheap US VPS ($1 a month type cheap) - only need basic box with 128MB RAM?
 * penguin42 doesn't know anything that cheap
 * penguin42 was going to ask for recommendations for domain registrars (.org)
<foobarry> awilkins: lowendbox.com ?
<diddledan> aah he's back? awilkins, I found scaleway the other day - their low-end cost for a dedi arm box is about â¬2.99 IIRC
<diddledan> oh that's their VPS
<diddledan> their dedi arm boxes are â¬11.99
<diddledan> https://www.scaleway.com/
<diddledan> the 2.99/mo VPS is 2core 2GB RAM and 50GB SSD
<diddledan> that's x86_64-based rather than ARM
<foobarry> why are some films on google play not for tental? e.g. interstellar
<foobarry> buy only.
<diddledan> tent!
<diddledan> foobarry, because the hollywood studio licensing deals are poo
 * penguin42 expects it's something like more recent/more successful ones
<foobarry> does ebay do 2FA? an't find it
<diddledan> I've got my GMail 2fa'd now, I need to get more accounts set-up to use it
<daftykins> mmm i use that on my personal one, my new google apps one and my microsoft account
<daftykins> if i log into my MS account the app on my phone comes up with the request ID and i can either approve or deny
<diddledan> \o/
 * brobostigon has three yubikeys for such aplications.
<n1md4> hi.  i used ecryptfs on my home directory, but have misplaced what it was or how to retrieve it.  Ideally I'd like to change it to something I will remember.
<n1md4> Any advice would be apprecitaed
<diddledan> n1md4, login and run ecryptfs-unwrap-passphrase
<diddledan> I think that's the right command
<n1md4> ah ha!  that's the passphrase then
<diddledan> or, just login and marvel at the files being accessible
<n1md4> so, if i wanted to mount that drive, for disaster recovery, it's that phrase that I need, right?
<diddledan> yes
<n1md4> Oh, I'm logged in now, it's beautiful :)
<n1md4> Thanks.  So, is it easy to change? Or can I use the password (that is my login) to mount the drive
<diddledan> the passphrase is encrypted using symmetric encryption based on your user-account. so you should only ever need the passphrase for that recovery scenario you mention where you can't use your normal login
<n1md4> OK so note it somewhere and keep it safe!  got it.  thanks.
<diddledan> normally the mounting is done via PAM when you sign-in, IIRC. so if your user account goes byebye then you need to use the recovery passphrase to access the files.
<n1md4> o7
#ubuntu-uk 2017-03-06
<daftykins> diddledan: more kittens! https://www.dropbox.com/s/tfr2r5zo05te7mb/VID_20170305_114826.mp4?dl=0
 * diddledan jealous :-p
<diddledan> so cute
<daftykins> well she made me click things i wasn't intending to, so there's a trade-off!
<diddledan> hehe
<diddledan> https://youtu.be/VhGiXQkEJd0
<zmoylan-pi> saved himself a bundle on an unneccessary pc case... :-P https://twitter.com/J0hnnyXm4s/status/837705127079329792/photo/1
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi: wat
<zmoylan-pi> it'a air cooled...
<zmoylan-pi> and no need for blinky leds for when the cd rom or spinny hd are been accessed as they start swaying
<daftykins> phew, thought my Shure IEMs were going funny - just removed a strategically placed piece of wax from inside
<daftykins> lovely :P
<zmoylan-pi> keep the wax, you'll corner the market of green candle manufacturing...
<davmor2> Morning all
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls
<diplo> Morning all
<JamesTait> Good morning all! Happy Monday, and happy White Chocolate Cheesecake Day! ð
<foobarry> thats a bit specific
<knightwise> Morning peepz
<bashrc> g'day
<SuperMatt> morning
<knightwise> Using a Mirc client on windows to do IRC
<knightwise> Been a while since I did that
<zmoylan-pi> when i had mac, linux AND windows at home i used quassel as it looked same on all 3 platforms
<bashrc> Using IRC within Pidgin
<knightwise> bashrc, thats an alternative too
<knightwise> currently using hexchat
<knightwise> not too shabby
<zmoylan-pi> but now it's all irssi running on a pi
<knightwise> zmoylan-pi, unplugged my pi at home this week ,
<zmoylan-pi> the national grid thanks you :-P
<bashrc> mainly it's because I've been trying out the new omemo plugin for pidgin
<knightwise> mostly I ssh into it to do some irc but since i've unplugged it i use a native client
<zmoylan-pi> i used pidgin as my first irc client and it worked well for a while. but i wanted persistence so initially got the pi to set up irc bounce
<bashrc> on my own irc server I set it up such that it's only accessible through a bouncer. Really that should be default functionality.
<foobarry> finally decided on a dashcam after 3 days of research :(
<zmoylan-pi> shouldn't that make you happy?
<bashrc> are dashcams just for insurance purposes, or do they do something else?
<zmoylan-pi> upvotes on reddit when you catch muppets doing stupid things?
<knightwise> zmoylan-pi, also very important
<zmoylan-pi> otherwise you have to have your phone handy to catch this hazzard county reject... http://www.ksla.com/story/34627647/caddo-parish-inmate-involved-in-high-speed-chase
 * knightwise hates pre-roll adds
<foobarry> it makes my wife happier
<foobarry> she can show me when people did terible things
<foobarry> and also there was a bad incident the other day which my neighbour caught on cam
<foobarry> london driving is so shocking
<TwistedLucidity> foobarry: Which dashcam?
<foobarry> TwistedLucidity: i wanted the smallest most discrete one
<foobarry> i got one used by RC and paintball enthusiasts
<foobarry> its called a mobius ,but i'd recommend something else if you want a lcd screen etc
<TwistedLucidity> Ok, ta. I assume a phone can be used to view recorded material?
<foobarry> i guess so? it has a removable micro sd slot
<TwistedLucidity> Ah, I was thinking maybe cable or BT. "Mobious Action Camera 1080P"? Darn, that thing is *tiny*
<foobarry> yeah
<foobarry> you can do usb OTG too to an app
<foobarry> and also slap on your helmet
<foobarry> as a poor mans go pro
<foobarry> most of the research was doing the hardwiring to the fuse box for a permanenet cable
<foobarry> postie just delivered: 32gb micro sd, my camera, and skyrim legendary edition
<foobarry> \o/
<popey> :)
<brodie_> test
<zmoylan-pi> ack
<foobarry> anyone know much about moichael morpugo books? are they any good?
<foobarry> for older kids
<foobarry> https://www.thebookpeople.co.uk/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/qs_product_tbp?productId=648086
<foobarry> 5-10 yr olds
<foobarry> hmm mumsnet (LOL) seems to think they might be upsetting
<Rixon> is there any reason why -s or --dry-run would be unrecognised for apt-get trying an uninstall?
<foobarry> putting it in the wrong place?
<Rixon> apt-get -s uninstall <pkg_name> is the right place according to the man page synopsis
<foobarry> apt-get -s remove?
<foobarry> is uninstall a new option?
<Rixon> hahah yea you got me
<Rixon> herp derp
<Rixon> ty
<Rixon> =)
 * Rixon must be blind considering I just read the man-page
<diddledan> scary github licensing problems? https://www.mirbsd.org/permalinks/wlog-10_e20170301-tg.htm
<diplo> Read a few things about that diddledan - seems some people think its a massive overreaction and others don't
<m0nkey_> diddledan: i blame the use of comic sans in the licensing terms.
<m0nkey_> *lack of
#ubuntu-uk 2017-03-07
<daftykins> good morning to all
<daftykins> http://imgur.com/a/yxf7L quick trip down the harbour for a fry-up :D
<SuperMatt> Linux Sucks... For the Last Time: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SMKeWTVYBUo
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls
<davmor2> Morning all
<daftykins> o/
<diplo> Morning all
<SuperMatt> morning
<daftykins> \o
<JamesTait> Good morning all! Happy Tuesday, and happy Alexander Graham Bell Day! ð  ð¿
<davmor2> JamesTait: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EVBsypHzF3U
#ubuntu-uk 2017-03-08
<SebthreeBQM10HD> hi
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<SebthreeBQM10HD> brobostigon, morning green blob girl
<brobostigon> SebthreeBQM10HD: morning green genderless blob.
<SebthreeBQM10HD> brobostigon, h eh
<brobostigon> SebthreeBQM10HD: i am no girl either, so heh back too.
<diplo> Morning all
<TwistedLucidity> Rattling GPU fan. AAAAARRRGGGGHHH!!!! 8 hours or "Errr-tikka-tikka-tikka-errrrrrrr!"
<TwistedLucidity> It's getting pulled out tonight and examined. Probably Huksy hair in the works.
<TwistedLucidity> I hope that's all it is, easiest to deal with.
<JamesTait> Good morning all! Happy Wednesday, and happy International Women's Day! ð
<davmor2> Morning all
<davmor2> JamesTait: what day did you pick
<JamesTait> davmor2, happy International Women's Day. âº
 * zmoylan-pi gets ready to head to march in city centre...
<davmor2> JamesTait: for a change I think I will resort to the wonderful Aretha Franklin and blues brothers cause why not :) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGXU7268Z50
<diddledan> girls just want fundamental rights: https://www.youtube.com/embed/qmBF_4Iypos
<davmor2> diddledan: that doesn't sound nearly as happy as fun
<foobarry> !ping
<lubotu3> pong!
<ball> !pang
<ball> ^- just broke the Internet ;-)
#ubuntu-uk 2017-03-09
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<JamesTait> Good morning all!  Happy Thursday, and happy Panic Day! ð
<davmor2> JamesTait: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wMykYSQaG_c
<foobarry> hello ppl i have a libreoffice question. is there an easy way to colour the first half of the bars blue in this chart?
<foobarry> uh imgur is shagged
<foobarry> http://imgur.com/a/X9WF5
<foobarry> ^^ that
<davmor2> foobarry: https://forum.openoffice.org/en/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=759 I assume it is similar in LO
<davmor2> foobarry: https://ask.libreoffice.org/en/question/1498/change-xy-chart-data-colors/
<foobarry> ta. ask.lo was down for a while earlier :\
<foobarry> there is actualyl a cool way to do it. not sure i can be bothered. will manual click each bar and change it :S
<davmor2> foobarry: you can probably use macros but for a one off it is probably just easier to do it the manual way
<foobarry> https://ask.libreoffice.org/en/question/40698/how-to-automatically-assign-different-colours-to-categories-in-a-bar-chart/
<diplo> Anyone use VMWare Workstation 12 ?
<diplo> Never used it till now, but getting system beeps coming through my earphones, settings that I've found with google arent working or found
<MooDoo> howdy all
<SuperMatt> yo
<MooDoo> thought everyone had gone home :)
<foobarry> or the rapture had come
<MooDoo> ho ho
<zmoylan-pi> no no, all the sinners in this channel will remain after the rapture :-D
<foobarry> emacs users?
<MooDoo> ubuntu podcast listners ;)
<zmoylan-pi> iphone users
<MooDoo> guess i'm not going any where until I get my nokia 3310 ;)
<zmoylan-pi> still available in many city centre phone accessories shops
<zmoylan-pi> haven't been on in years... still 50% charged
<foobarry> once a water bottle leaked in a plastic bag containing my phone
<foobarry> phone was on, and completely sbmerged for ages
<foobarry> it was fine
<zmoylan-pi> i once was demonstrating how i accidently smacked my nokia into a wall and it slipped from my hand and bounced off concrete pavement... chipped the pavement slab.  it was fine
<MooDoo> lol
<zmoylan-pi> i don't think the new ones are any good... if it had of run java apps i'd have gotten one but it's unexpandable
<MooDoo> i'll just get one as they are cheap and only make calls and send texts, I can detox from my iphone.....
<davmor2> MooDoo: what you doing here did you get lost looking for the toilet again?
<MooDoo> davmor2: it's a drug, I get wheened off then sucked in again
<davmor2> MooDoo: how am ya
<MooDoo> davmor2: cracking thanks mate, how about yourself?
<davmor2> tired but good thanks
<MooDoo> davmor2: tired sounds about right, SQL is making me tired lol
<davmor2> MooDoo: lack of sleep makes me tired :)
<MooDoo> davmor2: there is that too :)
<davmor2> but the caravan will be back in use
<MooDoo> davmor2: I've suprised the wife by telling her I quite fancy a caravan now!
<zmoylan-pi> somewhere jeremy clarkson is twitching... :-)
<MooDoo> she died of shock
<davmor2> MooDoo: \o/
<davmor2> MooDoo: Mobile or static?
<MooDoo> davmor2: mobile but won't be for a year or 2 yet we're just about to move house
<MooDoo> #join #ubuntu-irc
<MooDoo> damn
<davmor2> MooDoo: have a look at the adria altea severn and tamar will cost you around Â£100 a month
<davmor2> MooDoo: fail
<MooDoo> thanks chap
<zmoylan-pi> is there an #ubuntu-caravan? :-P
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: no but there probably should be :D
<MooDoo> zmoylan-pi: davmor2 yes the channel exists
<Laney> they're talking about caravans on radio 4 atm
<Laney> ...
<Laney> static ones though
<davmor2> Laney: see they are everywhere
 * zmoylan-pi is listening to american morning radio on my dab radio...
<MooDoo> Laney: davmor2 already have access to a static one in bakewell :)
<Laney> nice
<davmor2> Mine's basically static even though it is a tourer, but by booking the season pitch we save a fortune
<zmoylan-pi> and is still somewhere to get away from it all _with_ home comforts...
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: indeed and it is the most relaxing park around this area, so we wind up spending the weekend just chilling out it is so nice
<MooDoo> davmor2: that's what I need at the moment
<davmor2> MooDoo: find a site local to you that has no facilities, it lowers the amount of families going there which makes it quieter and cheaper :)
<MooDoo> davmor2: good plan :)
<MooDoo> I hate ubuntu *won't fix* issues :(
<foobarry> SuperMatt: didn't you say rackspace canned a load of jobs? still getting emails from them about jobs
<MooDoo> well just upgraded to 16.10 and my system couldn't use ethernet :( [fixed now though]
<davmor2> MooDoo: Ubuntu do fix issues :P
<MooDoo> davmor2: shush you, this is a won't fix bug :p
<davmor2> MooDoo: then your issues is you :P  /me files a bug to see if Ubuntu can fix it
<MooDoo> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/network-manager/+bug/1638842
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 1638842 in network-manager (Ubuntu) "network-manager does not manage ethernet and bluetooth interfaces when Ubuntu 16.10 is installed using chroot/netboot method" [Undecided,Won't fix]
<MooDoo> :p
<MooDoo> davmor2: I'm totally not fixable lol
<davmor2> MooDoo: apparently you are not the 6 million dollar man and they can't fix you.....well that or won't :D
<MooDoo> :)
<diddledan> I got pwned again (thanks https://haveibeenpwned.com/ for alerting me!) https://mackeeper.com/blog/post/339-spammergate-the-fall-of-an-empire
<foobarry> yeah i got that
<foobarry> is there a searchable dump?
<foobarry> i'm never able to verify my info in the leaks
<diddledan> I wish haveibeenpwned would do that - show you your records when you prove you're the person to whom it is attributed
<diddledan> have an email verification that sends a unique link to the affected email which when clicked shows the records
<foobarry> although then they would be a massive database of leaked data
<foobarry> and get bought out by evilcorp
<diddledan> true
<foobarry> everyone has a price
<diddledan> or leave it exposed in a mongodb :-p
<foobarry> apache struts
<davmor2> diddledan: Good News no pwnage found \o/ see how easy it is, you just use no services what so ever ;)
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> I've been pwned many many times
<m0nkey_> Fun
<m0nkey_> Oh no â pwned!
<m0nkey_> Pwned on 4 breached sites
<diddledan> scary stuff: https://foreignpolicy.com/2017/03/09/north-korea-is-practicing-for-nuclear-war/
<davmor2> diddledan: surely or you need to do for that is hug a loved one and hope for the best right
<davmor2> s/or/all
<diddledan> yeah
 * diddledan hugs davmor2
<davmor2> world implodes dues to nuclear war and everyone blames diddledan
<diddledan> does "oops?" cover it?
<davmor2> just blame trump everyone else does :D
<diddledan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_iiXWzqHRw
<diddledan> or https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0VHWseHS_OE
<marshmn> hi all; it appears that some ports on my server are accessible, even though "ufw status" doesn't list them
<marshmn> in particular, these are local port mappings to some Docker containers
<marshmn> hmm, maybe Docker & ufw don't play that nicely together
<diddledan> marshmn: don't tell docker to publish the ports (do NOT use -p hostport:containerport)
<marshmn> diddledan: ah, I see
<marshmn> diddledan: good point
<marshmn> diddledan: actually, no, I need that though... I need them accessible from the local machine
<marshmn> I just don't want them accessible remotely
<marshmn> still, I'll look into whether there are some options for that
<marshmn> thanks
<diddledan> marshmn: if you want to access the ports from one container within a different container then do it directly by using the container hostname:port
<marshmn> no, I need to access from the host
<marshmn> just not from remote
<diddledan> if you can figure-out the ip address of the container you can access directly from the host without publishing the port, but that is less accessible
<marshmn> yeah, that's awkward
<diddledan> that's what I figured
<marshmn> diddledan: apparently I can maybe do this: "docker run -p 127.0.0.1:27017:27017"
<marshmn> ie. bind it to localhost only
<diddledan> ooh
<diddledan> I wasn't aware you could include an additional colon
<marshmn> that's what Google tells me anyway :)
<marshmn> makes sense though
<marshmn> seems to work
<diddledan> so these augmented reality headsets.. (ref: Ubuntu Podcast) how long until we can get them embedded into our eyeballs so we're never not-augmented?
<diddledan> https://twitter.com/ComicBookGrrl/status/839892595467816961
<zmoylan-pi> how long till you augmented reality contacts are hacked and they can put virtual cow in middle of road when you're driving causing you to crash off road...
<Laney> extraordinarily long pause before the bongs on the 6 o'clock news then
<diddledan> well if that happens I will create a user interface in visual basic to track the hacker's IP
<diddledan> Laney: BONG!
<Laney> more like ...............................
<Laney> .............................................................
<Laney> ......................................................... BONG "oh thank god for that"
<Laney> also they crashed the pips on the weather, always good when that happens
<diddledan> google cloud spanner...? weird product name
<zmoylan-pi> maybe it was some secret code to tell the terrorists they've agreed to their demands... i've seen the james bond movies...
<zmoylan-pi> isn't big ben getting serviced or something atm?
<zmoylan-pi> ooooh some google pixel phones have broken microphones... do we have to pay more for those? :-P
<diddledan> it's a feature to combat the atlas7 dump
<daftykins> haha i just read about TalkTalk blocking Teamviewer today because "some customers got scammed"
<diddledan> ouch
<diddledan> how many people complained?
<zmoylan-pi> if someone gets mugged we should sue the council for making pavements!!
<daftykins> hmm not sure, mostly just capable users discovered it was blocked
<zmoylan-pi> but how many people complained about getting scammed?
<zmoylan-pi> isn't teamviewer what those you're microsoft windows computer is infected calls use?
<daftykins> the reg didn't have any info on that
<daftykins> yeah i think so, but of course that's after they've used social engineering to persuade a user into running it from their end themselves
<zmoylan-pi> logmein is mentioned in a few descriptions of the scam...
<zmoylan-pi> but then it's been in use since 2009 so it might have shifted and changed since then...
<daftykins> yeah, the tool isn't the relevant story
<zmoylan-pi> i wonder if talktalk blocks logmein...
<diddledan> they might as well block ssh because that's the vector a scammer would have to use on me
<zmoylan-pi> don't say that... some middle management suit will issue a memo making it so...
<zmoylan-pi> you'll be reduced to using... slack... :-P
<daftykins> oh sorry that's down due to... whatever happened the other day
<daftykins> oh the Amazon thing
<diddledan> S3 in US-East-1 died
<zmoylan-pi> pebkac
<diddledan> PC Expo NY 1994 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0dBOcVUIbQ
<zmoylan-pi> i think 94 was the year i got my first psion... or was it 93...
<daftykins> zmoylan-pi: yeah your dreams are all coming true! a new one even
<daftykins> diddledan: kitty update - https://www.dropbox.com/s/m4l2afbvg84w9w1/IMG_20170309_195432.jpg?dl=0
 * diddledan cuddles the kitty
<zmoylan-pi> no cat of ours ever sat that close to a hoover...
<daftykins> can tell they're young! :D
<diddledan> or the hoover doesn't get turned-on much
<zmoylan-pi> closest was gloating over a hoover sent crashing down the stairs in an attempt to kill it... but it was an industrial nilfisk so was nokia grade hoover...
<zmoylan-pi> that nilfisk was her nemesis...
<daftykins> seems the kinda brand an old authoritarian German needs to announce loudly
<zmoylan-pi> they cost silly money then. saw a plastic variant from same era recently in shop window reconditioned and still costs silly money... i've no idea how my dad wrangled it
<TwistedLucidity> Howdy.
<daftykins> and that's when you knew, zmoylan-pi - your mother was a hoover knock-off
<TwistedLucidity> Random question - is https://www.paypal.com/uk down for anyone esle?
<TwistedLucidity> Getting continual TLS errors, can't load the page
<zmoylan-pi> no no, my mother was a stickler for best hardware...
<zmoylan-pi> no errors on paypal here but i'm not signed in
<daftykins> TwistedLucidity: loads for me, unless you mean login too
<TwistedLucidity> I can't even curl the page
<diddledan> loads for me
<TwistedLucidity> Host unreachable. WTF?
<TwistedLucidity> Must be something local to my router or summat
<zmoylan-pi> though firefox url after clicking that link is now https://www.paypal.com/uk/webapps/mpp/home
<TwistedLucidity> Ok, thanks. I must have some local glitch, can't even ping it
<daftykins> oof
<daftykins> TwistedLucidity: virgin huh? must be another routing debacle
<TwistedLucidity> Or my local DNS is hosed. 198.18.0.1 is the IP I have. Shall jump on the VPN I guess....
<zmoylan-pi> i'm now on virgin in ireland so wouldn't that affect here too?
<TwistedLucidity> I don't think so, no. Some of these outages can be local depending on what bit went up in flames
 * daftykins hands a 6
<daftykins> zmoylan-pi: nope can be restricted to specific coax segments i think
<zmoylan-pi> you need to pop open your local phone cabinet and wiggle a few cables to find the loose one... :-P
<zmoylan-pi> may i suggest using a jcb :-D
<TwistedLucidity> So every site works apart from the one I need to order a random fan from China. ArgH!
<TwistedLucidity> Well, it's not random. It's very specfic.
<daftykins> ooh do tell
<daftykins> i once went hunting for a specific fan for a Dell OEM graphics card
<TwistedLucidity> GPU fan has been rattling and is now dead.
<TwistedLucidity> Luckily this is a Cooler Master fan on a XFX card; it's available but not in the UK
<daftykins> ha-haaah, is it one of those ones with 3 screws, but rather than being a nice even triangle - it's longer on one side?
<TwistedLucidity> Prolly
<daftykins> oh right
<daftykins> with this one in the end i decided to just order a fan with the right 2 pin connector then just screw it into the heatsink, since there was only one from Hong Kong that had the proper alignment and they wanted Â£10
<TwistedLucidity> If I knew a PC enthusiast, I could probably temporarily rig a fan.
<TwistedLucidity> Ah, this is about Â£10 with one month delivery :-S
<daftykins> what's the card model? or the actual chip
<daftykins> yeah sounds a similar deal!
<TwistedLucidity> XFX GT 240 1GB
<TwistedLucidity> A really old card, but the PC is even older.
<daftykins> if you even had a spare case fan you could angle at it, that'd do the trick
<TwistedLucidity> I don't but I can probably snaffle one from the Hackspace if it comes to it.
<TwistedLucidity> Good idea that, cheers.
<daftykins> np :D
<TwistedLucidity> Right, I need to go and reboot routers to see if that solves the problem (assuming it's local to me)
<TwistedLucidity> G'night
<zmoylan-pi> i remember screwing in an over large fan onto a cpu having the screws gripping the fan as no holes fitted the fan.  worked well but it was on 100% of the time at full whack
<daftykins> oof :>
<TwistedLucidity> Bad news everyone. Tragic, even.
 * TwistedLucidity is back on-line
<zmoylan-pi> it actually felt more secure than the original fan and because it was running 100% never jammed like the previous few fans form on off in dusty environment
<daftykins> TwistedLucidity: still the same?
 * TwistedLucidity GPU now @ 50Â°C
<daftykins> yeah i wouldn't run even a low end card like that without at least some breeze :D
<TwistedLucidity> daftykins: Naw. I can now pay, pal.
<daftykins> oh, weird
<TwistedLucidity> Had some network issues earlier in the week. A hard reboot of the VM modem (including 3+ minute disconnect) didn't clear it.
<TwistedLucidity> Had to reboot the OpenWRT router. Very surprising.
 * TwistedLucidity makes a not to find out how to tell dnsmasq etc to drop caches and rebuild
<TwistedLucidity> And...er...paypal is down again. Whut?
<daftykins> D:
<diddledan> \o/
<diddledan> you broke it good!
<zmoylan-pi> it's a cunning plan by bitcoin... :-P
<daftykins> heh you know how they implemented 2FA by texting users a code before login? someone saw that they had an "2FA=1" variable in the URL XD
<daftykins> (paypal this is)
<TwistedLucidity> Can someone ping paypal.com? Do you get 198.18.0.1?
<daftykins> that's your gateway sir
<daftykins> *168
<TwistedLucidity> No, no it is not
<diddledan> you mistyped 168
<daftykins> oh my bad it looked so close to a typo of 192.168.0.1
<zmoylan-pi> (2.16.139.228)
<diddledan> yeah, me too
<daftykins> paypal.com for me is at 64.4.250.32 or .33
<TwistedLucidity> Who the heck is 198.18.0.1 then?
<diddledan> paypal is 64.4.250.32 and .33 for me
<TwistedLucidity> Huh, I'm getting that 198 mumbo-jumbo
 * TwistedLucidity wonders if he has been pwned
<diddledan> 198.18.0.1 is unallocated ARIN IP
<daftykins> are you using virgin media's DNS?
<daftykins> maybe try a dig/nslookup against an OpenDNS/Google DNS server?
<TwistedLucidity> I'm actually using one of Level 3's public servers
<diddledan> also check your local dns forwarder separately from upstream VM DNS
<TwistedLucidity> I shall dig around (hurr, hurr, hurr)
 * daftykins covers his eyes
<daftykins> :D
<TwistedLucidity> Huh, goggle's 8.8.8.8 return 198.18.0.1
<daftykins> what kind of latency does that IP ping with, assuming it responds?
<diddledan> no it doesn't
<diddledan> google returns the same as I got from AAISP
<daftykins> well it doesn't for us on the 'net, but if there were something weird on his LAN...
<TwistedLucidity> dig www.paypal.com @8.8.8.8 gave me 198....
<TwistedLucidity> Mobile returns 23.43.65.170
<diddledan> that's because paypal doesn't publish a www. host
<TwistedLucidity> Could be
<daftykins> with or without the woo? </Fonejacker>
<TwistedLucidity> paypal.com is the same
<TwistedLucidity> Pinging via mobile........
<TwistedLucidity> No response
<TwistedLucidity> 100% packet loss
<TwistedLucidity> Something, somewhere is very wrong
<diddledan> www.paypal.com should be a chain of CNAMEs ending in an akamaiedge host
<daftykins> was more thinking ping on the desktop where the queries are mentioning it
 * TwistedLucidity gets to the VPN.....
<TwistedLucidity> ....and the VPN won't connect?
<diddledan> I bet you've got a really whacked configuration that you thought was cool but is screwing you :-p
<TwistedLucidity> That wouldn't affect the phone, it's off WiFi
<TwistedLucidity> And as for DNS etc, it's basic OpenWRT that been stable for the past year or so.
<TwistedLucidity> Interesting
<TwistedLucidity> VPN to the USA East data centre failed, London worked
<daftykins> anything look out of the ordinary with 'ip a' or 'route -n' ?
<daftykins> ah so still getting out of the house at least
<TwistedLucidity> Oh, reddit etc works dandy
<TwistedLucidity> Phone going over mobile data and via Nodnol VPN can't ping paypal.com either. It's not me.
<TwistedLucidity> Can't ping 64.4.250.32
<TwistedLucidity> Or 64.4.250.33
<daftykins> that's ok, they don't respond
<TwistedLucidity> Well that explains that!
<TwistedLucidity> Well strange though that the phone is barfing, even when off my LAN
<daftykins> indeedy :S
<daftykins> it must have the same electronic sickness
<TwistedLucidity> Me + networking = catasrophe
<TwistedLucidity> ip a is normal (even with the new weirdy-beardy naming)
<TwistedLucidity> Come back eth0! All is forgiven!
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> ens0radio41
<TwistedLucidity> AM or FM?
<daftykins> think AM got turned off in the UK, no?
<TwistedLucidity> "route -n" is terse and normal.
<TwistedLucidity> SW FTW!
<TwistedLucidity> This isn't me. I reckon Berners Lee has cross the wires somewhere
<TwistedLucidity> Either that or the UK no longer permits secure connections outside its borders.
<daftykins> GCHQ breaking TLS
<TwistedLucidity> Yeah. How can the find the terrorists if they can't hear their GPU fan rattle?
<TwistedLucidity> Nuts to it. Ordered via credit card. Fan now on way.
<TwistedLucidity> GPU @ ~50Â°C
<TwistedLucidity> High, but not critical
<TwistedLucidity> Better than the T430 that runs at 90+Â°C
<TwistedLucidity> Right, good night all
<daftykins> aww he went, 105C is the maximum for a GT 240 ;D
#ubuntu-uk 2017-03-10
<zmoylan-pi> see they could make a graphic card for uk and ireland you could boil water on to make tea... :-)
<daftykins> oh it's been done, many moons ago someone stacked 2p coins on a CPU and cooked an egg!
<diplo> Morning all
<SuperMatt> morning
<davmor2> Morning all
<davmor2> MooDoo: still here I see
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<TwistedLucidity> paypal.com is still down (for me)
<TwistedLucidity> GPU fan no longer rattles...mostly because it no longer spins!
<davmor2> TwistedLucidity: what did you do to it
<TwistedLucidity> davmor2: Dunno. "paypal.com" resolves to 198.18.0.1 and that host is unreachable.
<TwistedLucidity> Fan was on the way out, got a new one on order.
<MartijnVdS> paypal.com has address 64.4.250.33
<MartijnVdS> paypal.com has address 64.4.250.32
<MartijnVdS> that's what it resolves to for me
<MartijnVdS> 198.18 and 198.19 are:
<MartijnVdS> Addresses starting with "198.18." or "198.19." are set aside for use in isolated laboratory networks used for benchmarking and performance testing.  They should never appear on the Internet and if you see Internet traffic using these addresses, they are being used without permission.
<SuperMatt> could be those 198 addresses are internal proxy addresses
<SuperMatt> or someone in your office is trying to MITM all the paypal requests
<TwistedLucidity> MartijnVdS: Yeah, when I ssh into another machine I get the correct IPs. I have no idea *why* my router returns 198...; even even I do "dig paypal.com @8.8.8.8"
<TwistedLucidity> I am at home
<davmor2> hmmmm interesting tactics Ebuyer after vault 7 you put a samsung 4k tv on sale hmmmmm
<JamesTait> Good morning all! Happy Friday, and happy Mario Day! ð
<TwistedLucidity> Ah-ha!
<TwistedLucidity> "adb_list.openphish:address=/www.paypal.com/198.18.0.1" <- someone appears to have added paypal to a block-list
<TwistedLucidity> That's a wee bitty silly
<TwistedLucidity> And no, it wasn't me (before you ask)
 * davmor2 bets it was
 * davmor2 bets TwistedLucidity did it to stop the impulse buying when he arrived home drunk
<TwistedLucidity> davmor2: I claim my Â£5
<TwistedLucidity> Now added to the whitelist and working again. I didn't recognise 198... as being what the netfilter used. Thought I had it on a 192 range (as it had been when using DD-WRT)
<TwistedLucidity> At least I know the netfilter works, if in an irritating way
<TwistedLucidity> Ah well, just adds to the morning fun. "Fun (adjective): Ironic. When you get woken by one of the dogs barfing over on the side of your bed." :-(
<davmor2> JamesTait: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ndiD8V7zpAs
<TwistedLucidity> New GPU fan is on way \o/
<davmor2> popey: oi you about mucka
<davmor2> popey: what was the name of that site where you got giraffe from
<davmor2> ta
<daftykins> diddledan: psst are you around?
<zmoylan-pi> on a friday night?! out having a life i suspect :-P
<daftykins> ;)
<zmoylan-pi> probably pushing an original pacman machine they rescued from a skip home
<daftykins> i had an amusing email this morning from a mate about his missus' wordpress site getting owned
<daftykins> no surprises there, must not have maintained it at all
<zmoylan-pi> it's wordpress... isn't that an invitation to hacK?
<daftykins> only when unmaintained
<daftykins> love the way he asks me if it's the security of his host to blame
<zmoylan-pi> ie. can we make it not our fault?
<daftykins> ja :D
<daftykins> i had to be careful though, at first i thought he was going to tell me the site he made himself for his missus' business had gotten trashed... i advised against making his own
<zmoylan-pi> firing up notepad on windows and typing the html from memory.... :-P
#ubuntu-uk 2017-03-11
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<ball> I'm starting to think I suck at this game.
<daftykins> heya \o which game?
<ball> xfreecell
<daftykins> hrmm
 * zmoylan-pi launches into another game of pixel dungeon...
 * ball hasn't seen that
<zmoylan-pi> a roguelike game on android https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.watabou.pixeldungeon&hl=en
<ball> hello marshmn
<marshmn> hi
<daftykins> \o
<marshmn> is this a new channel welcoming service?
<daftykins> yep, but the carpet is brown i'm afraid
<marshmn> nice
<penguin42> yes that's the version 0.98 daftykins welcome bot
<marshmn> maybe it will reach 1.0 just in time for the death of IRC
<daftykins> woohoo
<daftykins> i dunno about that, my robot arm is tired already
<marshmn> I have too many different chat applications open all the time
<marshmn> but I have to say, IRC is the one I use least these days...
<daftykins> there are just too many out there, mmm
 * penguin42 has one application that does many protocols
<marshmn> does it do Slack & Discord?
<ball> penguin42: Is it pidgin?
<daftykins> see i don't understand why both those exist
<penguin42> ball: Nod
<ball> daftykins: NIH Syndrome, probably.
<marshmn> daftykins: who knows, but they do
<penguin42> daftykins: I understand why something other than irc exists;  there are some things that newer protocols can do
<marshmn> they are certainly richer (in UI/UX terms)
 * penguin42 has his pidgin doing irc, aim (probably dead now), G hangouts and purple
<penguin42> sorry, and Matrix
<daftykins> hmm i think you can pin a fair chunk of that on your chosen client :>
<zmoylan-pi> the big social news is that ms are shutting down so.cl... imagine having a less successful social netowrk than google... :-P
<penguin42> daftykins: I've done some contributions to the purple matrix plugin
<ball> zmoylan-pi: I hadn't even heard of that one.
<daftykins> i've never heard of that
<daftykins> i know libpurple underpins Pidgin but not familiar with matrix
<zmoylan-pi> we do seem to have reached peak service were we now only hear about services as they are been shut down
<daftykins> i used to use Pidgin on Windows before MSN finally got killed off :D
<penguin42> daftykins: see matrix.org; it's a distributed chat protocol
<daftykins> eh it's ok, i don't need another one :>
<penguin42> daftykins: Fully open
<daftykins> text only?
<penguin42> daftykins: No, images, video, audio
<penguin42> daftykins: (Although the pigin doesn't do the video/audio yet)
<penguin42> daftykins: Free clients for everything
<daftykins> too many cooks :>
<zmoylan-pi> you get a client; you get a client; you get a client
<marshmn> don't expect daftykins to like it; he only likes stuff that's stuck in the past
<daftykins> :D
<zmoylan-pi> piffle.... he uses modern irc!! :-)
<daftykins> nah i'm on skype! that's constantly getting updated :)
<zmoylan-pi> hasn't touched a bbs in yonks...
<daftykins> i never touched a BBS as it goes, skipped that one by
 * ball lives on Fidonet
<ball> (and IRC)
<marshmn> I'm soooo glad that I don't have to run Skype any more
<zmoylan-pi> ooooh, i used to be on fidonet
<ball> zmoylan-pi: Which zone?
<marshmn> well, rarely have to run it anyway
<penguin42> daftykins: So specifically the nice things over irc are that you get no problems with multiple clients all logged in (e.g. phone/desktop/etc), you get images inline, and copes well with intermittent connectivity - e.g. bad wifi or switching from wifi to 3g and back
<zmoylan-pi> i honestly couldn't tell you as i never used it once for communications... i joined a bbs in dublin and fidonet was part of that... but as i was only person i knew online at the time i didn't need the email
<marshmn> one thing I like about Slack/Discord (and others) over IRC is that you can catch up on conversation that happened when you weren't connected
<zmoylan-pi> well i use my rasp pi on 24x7 for that
<penguin42> marshmn: Right, matrix can do that as well
<zmoylan-pi> and someone recently pointed out that news groups did the same thing pre slack
<marshmn> yeah, Matrix sounds like a more open version of things like Slack
<marshmn> fact is, if you had never used any of these things and you came to the internet for the first time and evaluated them all, you wouldn't pick IRC
<marshmn> it's just too outdated compared to the others
<marshmn> but
<marshmn> the most important thing is the community - where people are
<marshmn> and for some communities, like this one, they are still on IRC
<marshmn> that's the only reason to keep it
<daftykins> you know, as much as i know you're joking i resent the idea i'm doing anything outdated :( just because i don't care for inferior quality!
<zmoylan-pi> irc runs very nicely on the dumbphones that i use with a java client... slack will never run on those phones
<daftykins> did see talk spotify was going to go lossless though, curious what they're gonna use for that o0
<zmoylan-pi> wav :-P
<daftykins> zmoylan-pi: i don't think you can put a negative on a modern service for it not supporting antiques - that's simply not any kind of business sense
<marshmn> zmoylan-pi: then get modern phone for christsakes
<penguin42> marshmn: irc does have some things going for it; it tends to be very resilient on a distributed set of servers, it's also very low bandwidth
<marshmn> sure - but the world has moved on
<zmoylan-pi> nokia releasing more antiques dominated the news from latest mobile trade show... they are not antiques... they are still useable devices
<marshmn> it's not really an antique though is it... it's a modern phone in a case that looks like the old one
<marshmn> and also, that was a marketing gimmick
<penguin42> marshmn: Yet you still find people running around like headless chickens because 'slack is down'
<marshmn> lol
<zmoylan-pi> the 3310 is an antique as it won't even run the java irc client i use sadly
<zmoylan-pi> the resources slack uses on a desktop seems a little high for what it is from the complaints i read online
<marshmn> it's fine, I'm not here to convince you
<marshmn> stick with IRC
<zmoylan-pi> this is an industry that tries to reinvent a better wheel every few years and rarely succeeds
<marshmn> you can all sit in a shed somewhere and pretend that it's the year 1998
<marshmn> I really don't care :)
<zmoylan-pi> 1988 and my vax runs fine :-D
<zmoylan-pi> slack will go away and irc will persist
<ball> irc ftw.
<zmoylan-pi> in technology very occasionly some things outlast their supposed successors... irc is one of those technologies
<marshmn> it's hit the peak I'm afraid
<marshmn> only downward from here
<marshmn> http://irc.netsplit.de/tmp/networks/stats-freenode-history-uc.png
 * ball waves a paw
<ball> IRC works for me.
<zmoylan-pi> will never hit 0. some group/mob will always find it too useful
<marshmn> sure
<marshmn> it's had a good run
<marshmn> but things move on
<marshmn> IRC didn't keep up with the times
<zmoylan-pi> for me it passes the muppet test... you have to learn how to set up a client if you really want to use irc and that keeps out the riff raff :-)
<penguin42> irc's big problem is it's bad at intermittent connectivity, which with people using phones and tablets more is a pain
<zmoylan-pi> i really must configure my rasp pi for connecting to it when i'm out and about on dumbphone... let the pi do the constant connection and scrollback for irc
<ball> penguin42: VNC helps with that.
<marshmn> lol
<penguin42> ball: Using a text protocol over VNC is evil
 * penguin42 bounces ball into the 3rd circle of hell for that
<marshmn> or just use a protocol that doesn't need all these workarounds :)
<ball> penguin42: You could use screen too, if you're a masochist.
<penguin42> ball: Well, that's what you should be using for a text protocol - or an irc bouncer
<marshmn> or Slack.
<penguin42> no, definitely shouldn't be using slack
<marshmn> :)
<marshmn> depends where your community is
<marshmn> Slack, Discord, Gitter
<ball> In my case I have some unrelated graphical stuff to run too, so VNC was the right solution.
<penguin42> oh in that case I'll move you upto the 2nd level of hell
<ball> Thanks! I levelled up! ;-)
#ubuntu-uk 2017-03-12
<blues> how can you get a list of ppl in the channel?
<ball> blues: /who, I think
<blues> on mirc it was displayed at the side?
<ball> Hey, it works!
<ball> blues: IRC clients may handle that differently.
<blues> ok thx
<blues> how can I un full screen xchat?
<blues> got there round about
<ball> blues: Depends on your window manager, probably.
<blues> is there a key to close full screen on xchat?
<blues> or something
<penguin42> try any of   escape,   f11, or  perhaps alt-space might get a menu
<blues> f11   thx
 * ball isn't near an Ubuntu computer to test that.
<marshmn> o/
<marshmn> bit off-topic, but anyone have a recommendation for a reasonably cheap stand-alone network camera that can stream live to YouTube?
<marshmn> backup plan is to get a Raspberry Pi with some sort of cam attached
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<SuperEngineer> moaning all ;-)
<SuperEngineer> Today's "phrase of the day" award goes to Gok Wan [on Sunday Brunch, Ch4 just now]:  "you can also put your nuts in a bag and just whack them]
<diddledan> <SuperEngineer> Today's "phrase of the day" award goes to Gok Wan [on Sunday Brunch, Ch4 just now]:  "you can also put your nuts in a bag and just whack them] <-- and if you don't have any nuts of your own, ask a friend if you can whack his..
<diddledan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CgbcQIT7BMc
<diddledan> virgin media's pricing is weird - SuperFibre 50 12 month term: WITH PHONE Â£32/mo until end of contract, Â£40 thereafter but you can probably say you're leaving and get a reduction by recommitting to another 12 months; WITHOUT PHONE Â£32.25/mo
<penguin42> diddledan: Yes it's very random, I probably need to phone them up and ask them to be nice and moan about something random to convince them to drop it again
<SebthreeBQM10HD> hi
<diddledan> if I'm not around in a bit it's because I overdosed my intraveinous pepsi
#ubuntu-uk 2018-03-05
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<SuperMatt> morning
<brobostigon> morning
<Nafallo> morning
<brobostigon> morning
<Nafallo> now you're repeating yourself ;-)
<brobostigon> :)
<SuperMatt> :)
<foobarry_> any anaconda users here?
<diplo> Anaconda as in the installer for RH distros or something else ?
<diplo> Morning all btw
<foobarry_> sorry , anaconda python :D
<foobarry_> have a weird issue that the environment works until i create a conda env. even without activating the env, something onthe sysstem has changed
<diplo> I did wonder, and not used sorry, looking at it now, if I'm honest hadn't heard of it
#ubuntu-uk 2018-03-06
<diplo> Morning all
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<brobostigon> o/
<SuperMatt> morning
<daftykins> cor, got a couple of 10TB WD Reds headed my way
<daftykins> Â£250 each :O
<diplo> Nice, send one of them my way ta
<daftykins> the postie would make you pay the VAT :D
<diplo> A gift ?
<daftykins> yep, can't get anything from the Channel Islands to England anymore without the penny pinchers crowing
<daftykins> sheesh only getting 8Mb today
<daftykins> fingers crossed for an engineer visit soon :D
<diplo> That's good for my line at work, lucky if we get 4-5mb
<daftykins> nasty, you out in the sticks or something?
<diplo> Nope
<diplo> Industrial estate, still waiting for fibre to go live
<daftykins> i get 60 normally, real world 6.5MB/sec down - just the snow melted into my outdoor connection and has ruined it
<diplo> the dsl line is soaked in water, if it rains we quite often loose internet
<daftykins> mmm i'm watching it rise and fall with the rain too, dried out a bit yesterday so synced a bit higher - but back down again this morning :)
<SuperMatt> doop doop doop
<daftykins> back to speeds \o/ telco engineers just came
<daftykins> one was an ex student of mine :D
<diplo> I know linux channel but hey, techie guys :D got a win10 machine that says no internet on it... but we're connected to it via teamviewer, everything works fine, but because office uses this detection it won't auth, anyone seen anything like it
<diplo> DNS/ip all seem fine
#ubuntu-uk 2018-03-07
<abstradelic> hi !
<daftykins> \o
<abstradelic> greetings
<abstradelic> greetings all
<daftykins> unlikely to get much at this hour, given the timezone and all
<daftykins> what brings you to a UK channel?
<abstradelic> then... I have interest in Qt-based platform
<abstradelic> what do you can tell me about?
<daftykins> nothing
<abstradelic> qt-based is really nice?
<abstradelic> ubuntu is allready qt-based?
<daftykins> you should probably take this topic to #ubuntu-discuss
<abstradelic> then... you you allways talk for all?
<daftykins> it's a friendly suggestion given you came into a channel for people, where it's half past midnight
<daftykins> i suggested a channel intended for discussion that's 24/7 :)
<ali1234> is #ubuntu-discuss an active channel?
<ali1234> a lot of -discuss and -offtopic places tend to be dead
<daftykins> i spoke in -discuss just a moment ago!
<daftykins> it's a bit odd how much this channel attracts folk from other countries though, i feel like they've all been fed propaganda that all British are friendly
<ali1234> but we are :)
<ali1234> wasn't this channel like the default join for some irc client as well?
<ali1234> or am i thinking of another...
<daftykins> hmm
<daftykins> you know what's weird? i saw an american using this ntalk.de client recently, it seems to be ancient
<ali1234> i've never heard of it... but i never really used irc on windows
<daftykins> hmm could've sworn when i checked it was cross platform, seems not
<ali1234> it's FOSS
<ali1234> so probably, but it seems mainly developed for windows (all screenshots on the homepage are XP)
<ali1234> XP and 7 that is
<daftykins> maybe even Vista
<daftykins> but mm, seemed like a bad choice
<ali1234> i used ICQ/MSN etc before IRC... that's why i still use pidgin today, even though IRC is the only service it still supports
<daftykins> heh down to a one trick pony indeed
<ali1234> even the lead dev acknowledges it's a problem :)
<ali1234> he does coding streams on twitch :)
<daftykins> mr.purple huh? xD
<ali1234> which ironically, twitch supports IRC connections to their chat
<ali1234> https://www.twitch.tv/rw_grim
<daftykins> well it is just modded IRC afaiui
<ali1234> yes. it doesnt support everything and makes pidgin throw error boxes because it can't eg get a list of users in a channel
<ali1234> but it does work
<daftykins> i use livestreamer.io myself still to watch the feeds, if i'm on a PC
<daftykins> mostly it's the app on my Amazon FireTV - although it's horrifically buggy
<daftykins> i've even reported it and they don't even reply
<abstradelic> I use irc long time ago
<diplo> Morning all
<SuperMatt> morning
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<SuperMatt> Where does communitheme stand with Ubuntu 18.04. Do we know yet if it's going to be the default?
<SuperMatt> The answer is: https://community.ubuntu.com/t/call-for-participation-an-ubuntu-default-theme-lead-by-the-community/1545/574
<diplo> Anyone use the Skype snap ?
<SuperMatt> I've been using it
<diplo> Skype snap list shows 8.16.0.4 the app under help shows 4.3 ?
<diplo> Also, can't get it ot login, do the auth part and just spins
<abstradelic> Morning
<SuperMatt> diplo: *shrug*
<SuperMatt> logs in just fine for me
<SuperMatt> or it did last time I logged in
<SuperMatt> Lemm try now in my vm
<SuperMatt> *lemme
<diplo> ta fanx, no rush
<SuperMatt> version showing as 8.16.0.4
<diplo> under help ?
<SuperMatt> are you sure you don't have skype installed any other way?
<SuperMatt> yeah, under help
<diplo> Nope, I was thinking that too
<diplo> Removed the snap and reinstalled to be sure, app menu option disappeared on removal
<SuperMatt> strange
<diplo> Will do a find/locate as well now
<SuperMatt> I couldn't even get in to the "about" page until I logged in
<SuperMatt> type `which skype` in your terminal
<diplo> yeah /snap/bin
<SuperMatt> did you install with --classic?
<diplo> Yep
<diplo> Going to post in the forums, may be just me :)
<diplo> Joys of working for a old company, having to create a package for CentOS 5 :/
<SuperMatt> Surprised CentOS 5 isn't EOL yet
<SuperMatt> oh, it was EOL last year
<SuperMatt> gotta have words with your boss
<SuperMatt> I would point blank refuse to make a package for CentOS 5
<diplo> Customers running it, not us
<diplo> But we run software on there we need to monitor more for
<diplo> I've said we ought to tell customers tough
<diplo> But this is the last one on 5, still have 5 on Cent4!
<SuperMatt> jeez
<SuperMatt> I don't know how companies manage to get themselves into such a mess
<diplo> Yup
<diplo> Did you know that GoDaddy still run Cent4 machines
<diplo> And the reason why is most small companies won't spend money on IT
<SuperMatt> oh I know that
<SuperMatt> I used to work for Rackspace
<SuperMatt> we had customers who refused to upgrade their RedHat boxes
<diplo> It's a pain in my rear! Yes we do too
<SuperMatt> And I mean Red Hat, not RHEL, actual Red Hat
<diplo> I've told my bosses they need to write clauses into their contracts on renewal
<SuperMatt> Before Enterprise Linux was a thing
<diplo> We just got rid of our last RH7 box and 2 SCO 5? boxces
<SuperMatt> A year after heartbleed, we still had customer that refused to let us restart services
<diplo> Oh blimey
<diplo> We have an issue on some hardware, where it has been set up using intel software raid
<diplo> If I update past cent 6.5, it wipes /home
<SuperMatt> I tried to explain - in the time it takes for a service to restart, the end user will simply refresh the page and it will be back up again. It's seconds, not hours to restart a service. Any money lost in that period is *nothing* compared to the amount of money that could be lost due to a breach caused by heartbleed
<diplo> They don't seem to comprehend it do they.
<diplo> I've rebooted 2 servers recently that have 5+ year uptime
<SuperMatt> Good!
<diplo> I'm just scared of rebooting these boxes, had so many issues with them, but done about 80 servers now for customers
<diplo> But since going through this, found 3 sites with raid issues
<diplo> Phone them up, yeah we've been hearing clicking noises...
<diplo> We don't have to support these, I do it for our ease of life
<SuperMatt> They've been hearing clicking noises and didn't think to contact anyone?
<diplo> Yep
<diplo> Welcome to my world
<SuperMatt> never ceases to amaze
<diplo> Or me
<diplo> Had another one with a mirror'd drive, we've offered to fix it for free ( apart from price of disks ) and it has taken him 6 months with multiple prompting to fill a form out agreeing it
<diplo>  
<SuperMatt>  
<diplo> Focus on the wrong screen
<diplo> Fun with firewall rules on a Draytek router :/
<UncleMurda> UncleMurda
<zmoylan-pi> well that was enlightening... :-)
<daftykins> diplo: those things are so horrible :D
#ubuntu-uk 2018-03-08
<diplo> daftykins: drayteks ?
<diplo> I get on alright with them most of the time tbh
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<Gargoyle> o/
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<brobostigon> O/
<brobostigon> o/
<zmoylan-pi> oh no, the coneheads have invaded!! :-)
<brobostigon> lolz.
<diddledan> ^/
<foobarry> O/ O/ O/
<foobarry> |  |  |
<foobarry> ^  ^  ^
<daftykins> diplo: ah, i find their web admin atrociously designed
<daftykins> definitely a case where an engineer wrote it and didn't get anyone sane to verify it ;D
<zmoylan-pi> well... if they were sane, they wouldn't be engineers! :-P
<daftykins> indeed!
<diplo> daftykins: Just been on a course, can confirm :D
<daftykins> xD
<diplo> But.... the guys are really pliable for changes
<daftykins> that's interesting
<diplo> Bunch of great guys
<daftykins> i tried out my first Ubiquiti Unifi wifi access point (WAP) yesterday, shame it seems to depend on DHCP but the included PoE injector and ceiling mount means it'll go nicely in a clients apartment build
<daftykins> also just needed an android app installed to find and configure it, which was novel
<zmoylan-pi> what if they only used iphones?
<daftykins> i did get gi... cursed with an old one the other day, so that's do-able - but i'd rather not
<daftykins> there is desktop OS management software too, but it wanted to install java so i nope'd out of that immediately :)
<zmoylan-pi> in the good old days you'd plug your psion into it's serial port and feel super geeky... :-)
<daftykins> serial was never part of a good old day :D
<zmoylan-pi> do you want me to link to the spitting image rs232 song?! well do you?! :-)
<daftykins> that sounds great!
<zmoylan-pi> no one sings about usb, lightning...
<daftykins> a friend linked me to the 'never met a nice south african' one the other day, as he was on the way there for a science conference of some kind
<zmoylan-pi> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CDlj0jBtYmQ
<daftykins> catchy :D
<zmoylan-pi> not as catchy as their stick a deckchair up your nose song...
<diddledan> I'm Keith
<daftykins> no you're not!
<diddledan> no, but I'm pretending my name is Keith
<daftykins> very well, cheggars
<diddledan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dom568R2jX0
<diplo> I really want to try ubiquiti, I don't have cash and can't get work to try it out :/
<daftykins> this one's a bit low end, ~Â£65 dual-band 802.11ac but 2:2 stream only, so 866Mb tops - but it'll do
<daftykins> debating just turning off the 2.4GHz since it's so contended these days
<diplo> I still have 2.4ghz stuff only at home - so can't do that at my place yet
<daftykins> ah, phones or laptops or some such?
<diplo> Both, kids have old stuff :/ can't afford to upgrade them yet
<daftykins> ah
<diplo> Plus they don't complain ( yet )
<daftykins> i'd probably make 'em share an old AP alone to reduce the sharing :>
<daftykins> i know a clients wife used to like having one she could turn off at night :D
<diddledan> Microsoft have given up inventing new names: https://www.thurrott.com/windows/windows-10/153739/windows-10-version-1803-called-spring-creators-update
<daftykins> haha
<daftykins> i'd only just learnt it's 'redstone 4'
<diddledan> so we've had "creators update", "fall creators update" and now "spring creators update". so imaginitive
<daftykins> a friends wifes PC had gotten totally hosed by the 1709 update, so i wiped the machine and gave it back - then that broken USB update came through leaving them with no workable USB devices - MS aren't doing so great with updates of late :>
<daftykins> weird how none of mine get these troubles though
<zmoylan-pi> it can be luck of the draw... a particular chipset not fully tested
<uniquorn> hey
<uniquorn> how do i install Apache_OpenOffice_4.1.5_Linux_x86-64_langpack-deb_sv.tar.gz
<diddledan> uniquorn: you follow the instructions of whoever gave you that file
<uniquorn> diddledan: its from the official side how do i un tar it and install?
<diddledan> to untar you can use the flags xz
<diddledan> there's no way we're gonna know how to install it once you unpack it though
<daftykins> uniquorn: why use OO.o? it's outdated vs. libreoffice that should be on there already if it's ubuntu
<diddledan> epic use of Machine Learning https://www.windowscentral.com/windows-defender-halted-massive-malware-campaign-week-microsoft-says
<zmoylan-pi> it stopped microsoft rolling out more updates to win10? :-P
<daftykins> certainly never see Loonix distros with updates (:
<zmoylan-pi> that's because they happen in the background not when you have to bash out a quick email changing plans in an emergency :-)
<diddledan> is it appropriate to talk about bashing one out in public?
<daftykins> honestly i don't know why it is that common folk are always getting prompts for updates at obscure times well after patch tuesday, if they just did them when they were supposed to instead of always closing things off, they'd be fine :>
<daftykins> and Loonix doesn't do them in the background
<zmoylan-pi> it can download and install updates while i'm using the app its updating... background enough for me... :-)
 * diddledan does it in the background
<diddledan> correction:
<daftykins> highly doubt it does them without confirmation, that wouldn't be good
 * diddledan bashes one out in the background ;-p
<daftykins> diddledan: a one-liner?
<zmoylan-pi> the kfc crisis is nearly over, they're returned to their original supplier... just a few weeks more chaos to fix problem caused by trying to save a few bob... :-P
<zmoylan-pi> who knew moving a few thousand tonnes of chicken around the country would be difficult...
<diddledan> I bet DHL are piddled
<diddledan> one lost contract...
<zmoylan-pi> seems burger king made the exact same mistake with dhl a few years back and had to go back to their original suppliers too, who are also kfc's
<diddledan> so basically DHL can't do food
<zmoylan-pi> i'm sure the management will still get their bonuses though...
<daftykins> my my these newest x-files episodes, it's as if they were written by an old fogey with a tinfoil hat afraid of the world changing
<daftykins> on the plus side it looks like Scully's apartment is running on open source :D
<zmoylan-pi> pffft, no self respecting x-files fan wears tin foil anymore... that was proven not to work in the series in the 90s... lead foil all the way... :-)
<daftykins> not a fan, the writer!
<zmoylan-pi> writing it now would be too complicated for a non fan with all the threads over 10 years of episodes...
<daftykins> there were only about 3 :)
<zmoylan-pi> that's what the greys want you to think!! :-P https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_The_X-Files_episodes
<daftykins> 3 arcs though
<zmoylan-pi> 3 types of episode... monster of the week... aliens... government experimenting on people...
<daftykins> yeah i'm seen 'em all, but there were only about 3 main arcs
 * diddledan experiments on the weekly monster with an alien probe
<zmoylan-pi> that was season 9 iirc :-P
<brobostigon> http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/bestiary/blackPudding.html#black-pudding what a name for a monster. :) lol.
<zmoylan-pi> i think i was swallowed by such a beast... big mistake, it's charms were negated by me attacking it from inside...
<zmoylan-pi> took a few turns till i could reach my backup weapon... a lucky sword i kept as a boot knife...
<brobostigon> :)
<zmoylan-pi> poor monster... it ate something that disagreed with it... :-P
<brobostigon> lol, quite.
<brobostigon> helps most oozes have an almost non-existant ac.
<zmoylan-pi> none internally i can attest to...
<brobostigon> :)
<brobostigon> for oozes acid damage is useful, so if an ooze slams you, it automaticlly causes acid damage.
 * diddledan oozes out the end
<diddledan> hmm, strange discharge isn't good
<zmoylan-pi> stop eating the kfc chicken you find by side of the road... :-)
<brobostigon> lolz.
<diddledan> bug: https://twitter.com/zygoon/status/971872430015877126
<daftykins> that's an amusing one
<daftykins> although they're dreaming, i bet they're corporate Windows fanboys
#ubuntu-uk 2018-03-09
<MooDoo> morning all
<diplo> Morning all
<fitnesslog> morning
<SuperMatt> it is indeed a morning
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<Yasar> Hi
<Yasar> I would like to know more about Promissory Notes?
<daftykins> they're still turning up
<diddledan> it's begun, the uprising: https://www.theverge.com/circuitbreaker/2018/3/7/17092334/amazon-alexa-devices-strange-laughter
<zmoylan-pi> alexa turning on humans, meh.... wait till the roomba uprising...
<diddledan> but roombas will augment their hoovering abilities with a mating between themselves and the lawn mower!
<daftykins> zmoylan-pi: that featured in that recent x-files 'episode'
<zmoylan-pi> wouldn't be their first killer robots/a.i. story...
<daftykins> mmm, though this was decidedly a lemon
#ubuntu-uk 2018-03-10
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<brobostigon> o/
<HeartsOnPhlearn> So ebay s dot UK, right ?
<HeartsOnPhlearn> http://archive.fo/d4m6a
<daftykins> hmm a clients bank actually had them uninstall current Firefox and install an ESR version so they could keep using the banking service
<daftykins> pretty damaging advice imo
<penguin42> it's probably all they tested with
<daftykins> oddly i can't even find any claim of 58 having trouble online
<penguin42> what was the failure?  I'd had at least one bank that ran into cert issues from a symantec cert
<daftykins> i was over for other reasons today, it was presented just in anecdotal form of "you updated Firefox and it no longer worked!" ... "blah blah, the bank had us install another" which ended up being an ESR
<penguin42> nod
<daftykins> the guy's 70 so i figured it futile to push for detail :D
<penguin42> it's impressive they managed talking him through installing ESR
<daftykins> i saw some weird USB card reader plugged in with some Barclays card plugged into it
<daftykins> heh yeah i bet that was fun
<penguin42> ah that's interesting, I've never had a chance to play with those
<daftykins> their browser wasn't up to date before, because someone had installed windows onto a 60GB partition atop a 2009 iMac
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> come to think of it they mentioned this person had them allow remote access
<penguin42> in that case, I hate to think
<daftykins> and i saw some really weird third party credential managing software that seemed capable of reading that card...
<penguin42> I've heard of those cards before and I think standard Firefox has a plugin thing for it
<daftykins> in fact the more i think about it, i wonder who phoned who to begin with
<penguin42> you thinking it was a 'Hello, this is your bank, I see you're having problems accessing your account....'
<daftykins> :D yeah
<daftykins> mmm so ESR was probably needed to hang onto the old plugin format
<penguin42> or perhaps that's the only version the guys who phoned had a hacked version of....
<daftykins> i think i'll be visiting Barclays on Monday :)
<daftykins> i'll be wiping it soon enough, i was exploring upgrades today - https://i.imgur.com/FzXdGHN.jpg
<daftykins> lovely dust
<daftykins> ok someone on the phone at Barclays fraud has no idea why someone'd ask for this, although he didn't seem to even understand the distinction between a browser and anti-malware software, so there y'go :)
<penguin42> on a side note, did anyone see a power blip on Monday evening, a little after 7pm - it was enough here to knock one of our older digital clocks out and for me to see a flourescent light go fully out; I'm thinking it was interestingly close in time to the teeside substation going pop but I think it was slightly later
<daftykins> just watched a video of that, cor
<ali1234> you guys seen "mans crashed his beamer"?
<daftykins> nope?
<ali1234> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E46FVuYHkZg
<daftykins> hrmm
<daftykins> amazed there are folk who talk like that :P
<ali1234> have you ever watched phoneshop?
<daftykins> is that on broadcast?
<ali1234> C4
<daftykins> ah, yeah i don't tend to watch any broadcast
<ali1234> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8-ZYmoKD2nI
<daftykins> yeeeeeeah that's not for me :D
<Whoosh2u18> https://imgur.com/IdHG6Ho
<daftykins> this is happening quite a bit now ^
<daftykins> \o
<TJ-> o/
#ubuntu-uk 2018-03-11
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<zmoylan-pi> morning mammals
<brobostigon> o/
<uniquorn> Im thinking of buying a ASUS FX553VD-DM199T and upgrading the HDD and ram
<uniquorn> Does that seem like a good laptop for Ubuntu?
<penguin42> do you have a link?
<ali1234> no get a thinkpad
 * brobostigon remembers his old ibm thinkpad he had when he was at college. :)
<Nafallo> personally I don't mind my Dell XPS 9370 ;-)
<brobostigon> could a tech or student of enginerirng be a worthwhile D&D class to design?
<khdkhfx_uk> Nafallo, you cant prove that, but yes I like the name.
<Nokaji> anyone wanna suggest an easy way to connect my 16.04 ubuntu PC to my android phone?
<daftykins> what kind of connect...
<Nokaji> okay - nevermind, I'll figure it out
<daftykins> ah yes i'm still on ignore :>
<zmoylan-pi> been on ignore is great... :-)
<daftykins> :D
#ubuntu-uk 2020-03-02
<brobostigon> morning
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<brobostigon> \o
<ujjain> Hey guys! I have received a job offer today, but I had a final stage interview last Friday with a company I like more. Which of these e-mails would sound better?
<ujjain> - May I ask at what stage is the review of my interview? I have received other offers as well and would Like to know about my application as well at your company so I can fully review my offers in order to let everyone know my next step.
<ujjain> - My job search has reached the offer stage with my other applications. Can you let me know when you are planning to update as to the status of my application, so that I can fully evaluate my options.
#ubuntu-uk 2020-03-03
<brobostigon> morning
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<brobostigon> \o
#ubuntu-uk 2020-03-04
<brobostigon> morning
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<brobostigon> o/
<Gargoyle> o/
#ubuntu-uk 2020-03-05
<brobostigon> morning
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<brobostigon> \o
<ujjain> A company would like to have a call to make a formal offer to start working, and answer any questions you may have at this point of the process. I don't really want to have a video call and have to answer straight in the moment what I think, how much I want, etc. I'm a much stronger negotiator when it's all written and digital. Any tips on how to handle this?
<daftykins> make notes and man-up
#ubuntu-uk 2020-03-06
<brobostigon> morning
<ball> Goodnight
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<brobostigon> o/
<Oli> ujjain, not a lot more than you can do that. Working for companies is as much as showing you're capable of communicating with colleagues and managers as it is having the technical chops to do the job. You can express your preference but it likely won't do you any favours if the person doing the hiring is expecting something else.
<Oli> But (re the conversation about emails the day before), employing [the right] people isn't easy. If you show undue impatience, you'd make it really simple for me and your app ends up in the bin. You've got to be right at the top of your field before you can start being a dingus to your interviewers.
<daftykins> :D
<Oli> It's still surprising how many people try to set the terms of employment and get all sulky when the company tells them to go do one.
<daftykins> one of my clients mail providers decided to send out a customer email to state they're well prepared to work from home and so corona won't take them down! how, erm, helpful...
<ball> I find myself taking a Linux class on-line (as part of a C programming certificate).
<brobostigon> :)
<ball> Looks as though their browser-based "Web Linux" is running on OpenRISC, so that's interesting.
<brobostigon> coolio
#ubuntu-uk 2020-03-07
<bittin_> https://www.youtube.com/user/socallinuxexpo/live
#ubuntu-uk 2020-03-08
<brobostigon> morning
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<brobostigon> \o
<penguin42> anyone know of a good way to turn 'local authority' locations into a map?  https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-number-of-cases-in-england/coronavirus-covid-19-number-of-cases-in-england
<zmoylan-pi> open street map not do that already?
<penguin42> oh maybe
 * penguin42 should learn how to wrangle that someday
<zmoylan-pi> it's like gimp and ffmpeg, something that we'll get around to one day but seldom do... :-)
<zmoylan-pi> some nice unsoothing background... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qgylp3Td1Bw
<penguin42> gimp and ffmpeg I can handle :-)
 * zmoylan-pi bows before the master.... \o/
