#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-09-17
 * scitesy is away: I'm busy
<snap-l> Hello from 12.04
<rick_h__> party snap-l
<rick_h__> morning
<snap-l> morning
<brousch> ug
<rick_h__> yea, with brousch
<snap-l> Good morning
<snap-l> Having fun yet?
<rick_h__> party http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2012/09/new-fitbits-can-sync-with-iphones-androids-via-bluetooth-4-0/ jcastro doh isn't here
<rick_h__> oh hmm, that's interesting http://www.amazonappstoredev.com/2012/09/amazon-maps-api.html
<brousch> I didn't even know they had their own SDK
<brousch> Two more interesting things http://www.infoworld.com/d/application-development/googles-java-translator-eases-path-ipad-iphone-apps-202377
<rick_h__> yea, couldn't decide if that was interesting or not
<brousch> Wow, what a confusing mess http://chicago-gtug.com/
<snap-l> Wow. That's insane. Looks like some kind of mishmash between Google and Javadoc.
<snap-l> BTW: FIL is doing better. He's uncomfortable, but able to walk on his leg.
<rick_h__> snap-l: great to hear!
<snap-l> Yeah, hoping he starts feeling a lot better soon.
<snap-l> he's off his food, unfortunately.
<rick_h__> 'off his food'?
<rick_h__> like not following the prescribed diet?
<snap-l> Just not eating like he usually does
<snap-l> ie: ordering the menu
<rick_h__> ah, ok gotcha
<snap-l> It was discovered that PHP incorrectly handled certain character sequences
<snap-l> when applying HTTP response-splitting protection. A remote attacker could
<snap-l> create a specially-crafted URL and inject arbitrary headers.
<snap-l> (CVE-2011-1398, CVE-2012-4388)
<snap-l> (sigh)
<rick_h__> there's jcastro_
<jcastro_> hi
<rick_h__> jcastro_: you see the new fitbit's with android support?
<jcastro_> no
<jcastro_> looking
<snap-l> jcastro: Rush, tomorrow night
<jcastro> I heard on the radio
<snap-l> jcastro: You going?
<jcastro> no
<jcastro> found out too late
<snap-l> Bummer
<jcastro> and I poured every ounce of cash into this house
<snap-l> jcastro: Ah, sorry.
<jcastro> I have this tour on bluray now so it's not so bad
<brousch> Come on. It's Rush. Sell a kidney.
<jcastro> I lie, yes it is.
<snap-l> This tour on Bluray? Um, how is that possible.
<snap-l> New tour.
<brousch> Many tours sound alike
<jcastro> snap-l, sorry, I meant the last one we were on
<jcastro> which had 2 new songs, but the CD wasn't out yet iirc
<snap-l> Yeah
<shakes808> good morning
<krondor> morning
<rick_h__> ugh monday how I hate thee
<shakes808> rick_h_: ++
<jrwren> http://linux.die.net/man/3/pcre_dfa_exec  <-- awesome, so glad this exists, now just wish more things used it.
<jrwren> snap-l: why did you wait so long to move to 12.04 ?
<snap-l> jrwren: a) needed a new HDD, and b) felt like an ordeal
<snap-l> I was on 11.04, so doing a simple upgrade wasn't possible, and I wanted to skip 11.10
<jrwren> sweet lord: http://amoffat.github.com/sh/
<jrwren> snap-l: well awesome. welcome to the party. (12.04)
<jrwren> snap-l: upgrades work well for me. I think my system was originally breezy and has upgraded all the way through.
<rick_h__> http://goo.gl/isZJw
<rick_h__> hah nosql bashing ammo ^
<paultag> le sigh
<paultag> people using nosql for the wrong reasons
<rick_h__> makes my case that people just don't know their crap enough and pick up the latest trend
<rick_h__> right
<paultag> nosql rocks
<rick_h__> (for a limited subset of large scale, limited scoped dataset problems)
<paultag> (or data that you can not practically enforce a schema on)
<jrwren> " Now my model, which I have carefully constructed so as to adhere to the Single Responsibility Principal..."  <-- someone doesn't know document databases.
<rick_h__> ok, EVT is a great case. But even then I almost wonder if a mixed environment works best
<jrwren> the whole point of a docdb is that you DO repeat yourself, as much as you need to.
<rick_h__> jrwren: right
<jrwren> anyone have any cherrypy debug tips?
<jcastro> smoser, feel like lunch?
<jrwren> i've got a request that never ends, and before I go instrumenting with logging, I want to see if there is anything else.
<smoser> jcastro, no. i've not been productive enough to earn it.
<jcastro> hah
<jcastro> man, tough breaks
<jcastro> you just don't eat if you don't work hard enough?
<brousch> jrwren: Try #cherrypy on oftc. The creator is usually in there
<smoser> jcastro are you implying your manager allows you food independent of your performance?
<jcastro> hah
<jrwren> http://www.daniweb.com/community-center/geeks-lounge/threads/152368/top-20-things-likely-to-be-overheard-from-a-klingon-programmer
<jcastro> score!
<jcastro> jill's first parking ticket in Ann Arbor!
<jhansonxi> jcastro: Admit it.  You called the parking police.
<jcastro> sshhh
<rick_h__> jcastro: ouch, didn't take long
<jcastro> heh
<jcastro> she was like 10 minutes over
<jcastro> I was like "welcome to ann arbor!"
<rick_h__> hah
<rick_h__> yea, always hated parking down there, though usually I ended up in a garage
<jrwren> jcastro: tell her to go pay it RIGHT NOW, it will be like $8 or $10, but will be $20 by tomorrow.
<jcastro> yeah
<jrwren> its a short walk from her work.
<snap-l> That mongodb -> psql is a textbook example of being upset when you're looking for jewler's screwedrivers, and decide instead to use a cannon
<jrwren> oh snap-l you always have the funniest analogies.
<snap-l> I just shake my head when folks decide to use MongoDB for something that doesn't require blinding speed and eventual consistency
<snap-l> And frankly, I'm no fan of mongoDB anyway. Seemed your data was secondary to beating benchmarks
<jrwren> i find the performance dubious as well.
<jrwren> "keep everything in memory" <-- guess what, this is really fast with RDBMS too
<snap-l> Yeah, it's like a collection of dubious practices
<greg-g> +1 to snap-l's creative analogies
<snap-l> "We only write to disk when we absolutely have to"
<snap-l> "We only pay people when we absolutely have to"
<greg-g> hey, you're starting to talk like a startup!
<snap-l> Maybe that's the true meaning of cloud computing: your data is just "out there" until someone pulls the plug
<snap-l> Then it's puff-of-smoke computing
<jrwren> s3 is sadly the opposite.
<jrwren> its been so stable, people can't imagine it not being there.
<snap-l> greg-g: Where we're going on the Internet, we don't need money
<snap-l> We'll be able to mine the walls for bitcoin, and maximize investor revenue
<snap-l> And drink Pina Coladas made of put energy and good intentions
<snap-l> jrwren: Until it isn't.
<greg-g> snap-l's favorite new refrain, "until it isn't"
<greg-g> but, it is such a koan like response, it always works
<snap-l> It's all fun and games, until it isn't. ;)
<snap-l> Dropping koans like Galileo dropped the orange.
<snap-l> (apologies to the Beastie Boys)
<jcastro> jrwren, since you're such a joel fan, what do you think about this: http://www.jorgecastro.org/2012/09/17/attaching-a-number-to-best-practices/
<snap-l> Once you attach a number to something, it becomes a game (paraphrase of Rob Malda over /.'s karma system)
<snap-l> If it's a simple binary checklist, then it's cool, but if you start putting numbers to it, you'll run the risk of people trying to game them
<snap-l> I know it seems insane, but try this experiment:
<snap-l> You have a ladder: Terrible, poor, mediocre, fair, good, great, superb, legendary
<snap-l> And each movement up the ladder is one point
<snap-l> So, if you're at mediocre, you can move to fair using one point
<snap-l> one shift, if you will
<snap-l> So, starting from mediocre, you can get to great with 3 points
<snap-l> shifts
<snap-l> So, not bad.
<snap-l> Now, try this
<snap-l> -2, -1, 0, +1, +2, +3, +4, +5, +6, +7
<snap-l> You start at 0
<snap-l> You're going to want to get as high as possible on that ladder
<snap-l> because +3 isn't the same as great. It's somewhere not +7
<snap-l> even though in this example, legendary is beyond even human capabilities (ie: herculean).
<snap-l> (Example comes from The Fudge / FATE / Strands of Fate games)
<krondor> ugh to unattainable rankings. Employee review scale 1 to 5, but nobody gets a 5.
 * krondor shakesfist
<snap-l> krondor: Exactly.
<snap-l> And actually, I screwed up that ladder. There's more adjectives in there.
<snap-l> http://hill-kleerup.org/pmwiki/FATE/TheLadder
<snap-l> http://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/15928/expand-the-numeric-scale-of-strands-of-fate
<krondor> legendary, epic, minor deity, major diety, omnipotent, segfault?
<snap-l> In Fudge, they strictly caution against applying numbers to the ladder
<snap-l> (as strictly as a free-form game can admonish)
<snap-l> krondor: YOu have caused the universe to core-dump.
<greg-g> yeah, I'm annoyed that our new merit review rubrics have a list "25%, 50%, 75% of comparable compensation" (where "%" actually means "percentile")
<greg-g> so, you don't think *any* CC employee is in 75+ percentile?
<greg-g> ef that
<jcastro> hey
<jcastro> does traffic move to or from ann arbor in rush hour?
<greg-g> highways aroudn A2 are a clusterfuck in all directions
<snap-l> http://paste.mitechie.com/show/SLKv7FhJZANP10C0TImj/
<snap-l> ^ sent to the MUG board list.
<greg-g> every minute
<snap-l> Maybe it's a message FROM THE FUTURE
<snap-l> we need to make sure the board members aren't flying on the same plane.
<rick_h__> best oatmeal ever
<rick_h__> http://theoatmeal.com/comics/dog_paradox
<jcastro> smoser, did you work hard enough for a beer yet?
<smoser> jcastro, hm... maybe. but i have 2 soccer team pictures to tend to first.
<jcastro> always with the soccer
<brousch> That's unamerican!
<brousch> You take football photos or move back to the EU
<smoser> jcastro, i dont know. we'll see.
<jcastro> I get the feeling that having these .... "kids" takes up all your time
<jcastro> this concept is foreign to me
<brousch> jcastro: You are correct sir
<snap-l> "Liked Ubuntu until they introduced that shocking GUI with stupid bar on left side of the screen.I literally began hating it....Still makes me vomit. No offence to anybody who likes it but i can't just help myself."
<snap-l> I would pay money to see someone vomit because of Unity.
<snap-l> no ipecac, no gagging, just a simple, straightforward cookie toss when shown Unity.
<greg-g> I don't think I'd pay money to see anyone vomit, really
<snap-l> Wlel, I'd probably leave the room once they started
<snap-l> But if they could show me a tape of them in a controlled experiment vomiting when exposed to Unity, I'd pay money for that.
<greg-g> good thing he only literally hated it, not literally makes him vomit :)
<snap-l> heh
<derekv> I keep forgetting there's people who choose a linux distrobution because of how it "looks" out of the box
<llua> they are very vocal about it too derekv.
<derekv> jokes on them, definatly quicker to change up how it looks and acts then to try a bunch of different distros
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-09-18
<jhansonxi> derekv: I love netbooting LiveCD/DVDs so a distro change is only an <alt><sysrq><b> away.  Good for demoing DEs.
<jhansonxi> I wish that distros other than Debian-based supported netbooting with NFS mounting.  Most just want the entire ISO dumped into initrd and served over TFTP.  Way too slow.
<derekv> jhansonxi: virtualbox
<jhansonxi> derekv: Netbooting also allows me to test distro compatibility with target hardware before installation.  Also good for repairs.
<rick_h__> morning
<snap-l> Good morning
<jrwren> good mornin
<snap-l> brousch: http://reinout.vanrees.org/weblog/2012/09/18/vagrant.html <- I'm amused this is becoming more prevalent.
<brousch> Yeah, I'm working with 3 OSX guys on viget.org, and they are pretty much dead in the water without vagrant
<brousch> It took another guy a full day to get postgis working on OSX for use with a Ruby project
<rick_h__> hmm, no mention of homebrew
<brousch> In the comments
<rick_h__> wonder if he missed the boat that things moved on to there
<brousch> The boat moves too often
<rick_h__> yea
<snap-l> brousch: ++
<rick_h__> not that I disagree, if you want to do linux use linux
<rick_h__> I've always said a mac is a shitty linux machine
<brousch> It is
<snap-l> And conversely Ubuntu can be a shitty mac.
<snap-l> I'm just glad it's got everything I need
<brousch> KDE makes it all good
<snap-l> KDE makes it a shitty Windows machine. ;)
<brousch> You can make your Ubuntu into a Mac or Windows with KDE
<snap-l> brousch: I can make art from bull semen too, but I'm not about to try.
<brousch> You should enter that in ArtPrize. You could with $250,000
<snap-l> Already been done. (was re: Metallica's Load / Reload)
<rick_h__> heh, I was going 'crap they changed the twitter ui...wtf' then loaded greader and I see the posts about it
<snap-l> ?
<snap-l> Woah.
<snap-l> http://techcrunch.com/2012/09/18/dice-holdings-buys-slashdot-sourceforge-and-freecode-from-geeknet/
<rick_h__> interesting, so totally thinkgeek or bust
<snap-l> Yep
<rick_h__> makes some sense I guess. "which of these is not like the others"
<snap-l> They're focusing on the one that makes money
<rick_h__> "The deal is bringing Dice a set of sites that are profitable and generating good revenues"
<rick_h__> seems they all are :P
<snap-l> *cough*
<snap-l> Though I can forsee something like github / stack exchange careers coming to fruition sooner than later.
<snap-l> link your SF.net code to your dice profile
<rick_h__> yea, it makes some sense there I guess
<snap-l> It's not as bad of a fit as some other companies I can think of
<snap-l> but I'm wondering what it'll look like in a year.
<snap-l> I finally deleted my Dice Profile because it was a douche magnet.
<jcastro> probably because most tech recruiters are douches
<rick_h__> sales people...can't stand sales people
<jrwren> you guys are obviously not software devs. You can't make ubuntu into a mac at all, and when you make it a shitty windows machine, its really called wine.
<snap-l> jrwren: You can make Ubuntu into a shitty mac machine, you just can't run XCode and develop iPhone apps on it. ;)
<jrwren> we have different definitions of "mac machine"
<jrwren> I'm not sure, but its going to be very difficult to make ubuntu use dyld as its loader.
<rick_h__> hah
<snap-l> Picky picky.
<jrwren> as for that "use vagrant" I'm pretty sure I've built all of those in a virtualenv on osx.
<jrwren> not sure what this guys deal is.
<jrwren> dyld is just tip of the picture. there are many differences between mac and ubuntu.
<jrwren> one can make ubuntu look like it has a mac veneer
<brousch> bcrypt is the current best way to store passwords, right?
<rick_h__> works for me
<rick_h__> mitechie approved lol
<brousch> The rick_h_ stamp of approval is always nice
<brousch> I'm enabling bcrypt in django
<brousch> Crap, now I lost the stamp
<jrwren> any tips on finding a python generator ignored Runtime Exception
<rick_h__> jrwren: what was the exact exception? recusion depth, generator exit?
<snap-l> Just had a fire drill here
<snap-l> That was fun
<jrwren> generator i
<jrwren> gnored GeneratorExit
<jrwren> and the Traceback is entirely wrong AFAIK
<rick_h__> http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2006-August/068429.html
<rick_h__> brings up something along those lines on how it's a bit crazy
<jrwren> yes, i can google too :)
<rick_h__> :P
<jrwren> but do you have any advice on finding the root ?
<rick_h__> but no, I don't hit that much
<snap-l> OK, I find this comment somewhat hypocritical, considering where I'm reading it: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4537930
<jrwren> snap-l: agreed.
<jrwren> the amazing thing to me is just how slow the death of slashdot has been
<devinheitmueller> slashdot is still around?
<devinheitmueller> ;-)
<paultag> I love /.
<brousch> I read about 1 article/day there
<paultag> yeah, me too.
<jrwren> i haven't read /. regularly in a long time, maybe even 10 yrs.
<jrwren> does python not like nested exception blocks?
<paultag> I read it about twice a day, quality is very much not great
<paultag> jrwren: nah, it can handle that fine
<brousch> I get it via RSS
<jrwren> is socket.error somehow special?
<paultag> jrwren: not that I know of, why?
<jrwren> i've got a try: socket.close() /*which is causing a socket.error*/ except socket.error,e: #blah
<jrwren> and the exception is still bubbling up, not being handled.
<paultag> jrwren: except socket.error as e?
<paultag> jrwren: and it looks alright here
<paultag> do you have a small example?
<jrwren> _cpwsgiserver.py from 2.2.1 :)
<jrwren> so no, i dno't have a small example.
<paultag> bleh :)
<jrwren> exactly
<paultag> it might be coming from somewhere else?
<paultag> what's the traceback?
<jrwren> I think so, because of a generator exception
<jrwren> but now I'm triggering it without that Generator Exit Error
<jrwren> it seems obvious what is happening to me, but I can't handle it.
<jrwren> cherrypy wraps the socket with makefile and eventually calls close on that file wrapper
<jrwren> which flushes and closes
<jrwren> but the socket is already closed
<jrwren> so sendall causes a socket.error
<jrwren> so I try to catch socket.error, but nope!
<jrwren> can't catch it.
<jrwren> i want to play pokemon with socket.error but it won't play with me. #gotta catch 'em all
<paultag> :)
<jrwren> i almost want to say socket.py is buggy.
<jrwren> i should look at 3k and see if it is different.
<rick_h__> jrwren: they aren't monkey patching socket or anything are they?
<rick_h__> greenlet/etc kind of stuff going on?
<jrwren> i don't think so.
<jrwren> nope, its a threaded server :(
<jrwren> but they are using makefile, which is nice, but this close() funciton looks wrong
<jrwren> indeed, 3k returns an entirely different beast.
<jrwren> io.TextIOWrapper
<jrwren> ugh, its changed a lot.
<rick_h__> they reorged exceptions in 3
<jrwren> but leads me to beleive it was changed for good reason and is a problem.
<rick_h__> the whole oserror stuff is a mess in py2
<jrwren> no no, not exceptions, socket.makefile()
<jrwren> used to return a pure python file like object typeof _fileobject(object) in socket.py
<jrwren> now it returns a io.TextIOWrapper
<jrwren> which looks like a beast of C
<jrwren> http://hg.python.org/cpython/file/3a880d640981/Lib/io.py
<rick_h__> ah, must be to make it unicode happy?
<jrwren> maybe fixes this close bug.
<jrwren> I don't think it had unicode issues
<jrwren> StringIO is unicode happy, even in 2.7, right?
<rick_h__> I mean TextIOWrapper needed to make a unicode friendly io stream stuff
<jrwren> but definitely gonna perform a lot beter with all those buffers implmeneted in C
<jrwren> e.g.  http://hg.python.org/cpython/file/3a880d640981/Modules/_io/iobase.c#l180  this is different behavior than 2.7's _fileobject
<jrwren> checks if it is closed before flushing and closing.
<jrwren> its a funny thing that cpython. WAY more lines of code to make your code go faster!
<paultag> that's often the case
<jrwren> yeah, its even true in F# and ocaml.
<rick_h__> http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/102zyo/bazaar_on_the_slow_track/
<jrwren> official GNU prject. now see, to me that is a turn off :)
<jrwren> wow! "Launchpad and Bazaar have never really been meant as products in their own right, but more as facilities to build Ubuntu. "
<paultag> I'm glad everyone's honest about that now
<rick_h__> yea
<jrwren> i read that as: "dont use bazaar for version control unless you are building ubuntu"
<jrwren> not everyone, that is the Bazaar lead dev
<paultag> s/unless you are building ubuntu//g
<jrwren> lol.
<jrwren> is there a git to bzr bridge?
<paultag> yah, I think so
<paultag> jelmer wrote python-dulwich
<paultag> I think that was for playing between the two
<rick_h__> not a great one
<jrwren> launchpad is damned good. lp was github before github. it just stopped inovating and github took things to next level, IMO
<paultag> rick_h__: it's an awesome name
<paultag> rick_h__: mr. and mrs. git are from dulwich
<rick_h__> bzr people hate git saying it's unintuitive
<paultag> bollocks
<rick_h__> but I've found bzr to be a mess
<jrwren> bollocks
<paultag> you just need to get into the right mindset, and understand how git works, don't treat it like svn
<jrwren> it is unintuitive if you don't use your brain :)
<paultag> e.g. don't learn push and pull first, learn about remotes and fetches
<paultag> then it will become clear what a pull does
<jrwren> paultag knows !
<jrwren> and use the reflog!
<jrwren> i used bzr and never saw the reflog AFAIK
<jrwren> and if I did, it was no easy to use.
<rick_h__> yea, too many people act like the reflog is like delving into the kernel source code
<jrwren> in git it is easy to use.
<paultag> git is easy to use
<rick_h__> we had this discussion at the last CHC where someone said rebase was 'dangerous'
<paultag> hahaha
<paultag> oh lrody
<jrwren> rofl.
<paultag> lordy*
<paultag> when you use --force like a dillweed
<rick_h__> and I went off that it's just people don't use it, don't practice it, but with the reflog nothing's ever lost
<jrwren> someone been reading the wrong writing and not thinking for themselves.
<paultag> yeah
<rick_h__> and then reflog was like this arcane library you had to travel up a mountain to get at
<paultag> brb, foods and stuff.
<rick_h__> so they want to pretend it's not there, therefor rebase is dangerous :/
<snap-l> http://www.reddit.com/r/fossworldproblems/comments/102iu2/ubuntus_boot_loader_menu_no_longer_mentions_linux/
<snap-l> I wish the whole "Ubuntu is trying not to be Linux" meme would find a nice cozy fire to curl up and die in
<greg-g> tempting http://www.indiegogo.com/iosafe
<devinheitmueller> First they complain that it doesn't say "GNU"...  Now they complain that doesn't say "Linux"...
<rick_h__> greg-g: yea, that's cool
<greg-g> did someone complain that it no longer mentions linux? All I see is "fair enough" and a factual title
 * greg-g thinks someone is a bit defensive
<greg-g> ;)
<snap-l> It was on fossworldproblems
<greg-g> annnd?
<greg-g> it's also in /r/Ubuntu
<jcastro> http://www.reddit.com/r/fossworldproblems/comments/zvf7a/nobody_ever_asks_me_what_distro_i_use/
<jcastro> hahahaha
<jcastro> that's awesome
<jrwren> ANDROID DOES NOT MENTION LINUX!!!
<rick_h__> android is not linux...it's a limited set of apis on top of linux and things that work on android don't work on linux
<jrwren> rick_h__: LOL, you are fun.
<rick_h__> :P
<jrwren> BROCADE SWITCHES DOES NOT MENTION LINUX!!!
<rick_h__> I'm just trying to get brousch going
<jrwren> VMWare ESX DOES NOT MENTION LINUX!!!
<rick_h__> he loves to say how everyone uses linux because they use android
<jcastro> hah
<jrwren> i love to say that too.
<jcastro> I don't use linux, I use ubuntu
<jcastro> which has linux in it
<jrwren> forget linux on desktop, linux in your hand, and it did ubuntu bug #1 - no one runs palm or windows ce anymore. they run linux
<jrwren> yeah, what jcastro said.
<jrwren> i love ubuntu, but I don't like a lot of other linux. slackware or gentoo for instance don't help me as much as ubuntu, so I don't like them as much
<paultag> jcastro: you run linux, that's your kernel. You have other stuff, sure, but that's like saying, "I'm not using an engine, I'm using a Ford!"
<paultag> which is sorta true, but also sorta false.
<paultag> not trying to get into some flame here, just sayn'
<jrwren> i think you just proved his point.
<paultag> perhaps.
<jrwren> you use a computer and drive a car.
<paultag> but I acknowledge the fact I have an engine
<jrwren> when asked what kind of car, you don't say "2.0L 4 cyl" you say "ford focus"
<jrwren> the engine is assumed
<paultag> I do usually stuff the engine stuff too
<paultag> because models have different engines, but I'm also a gearhead
<jrwren> i don't, becusae I don't drive anything exciting.
<paultag> I know i'm an exception, but saying you don't run linux is silly
<rick_h__> I have a synaptic
<jrwren> if I drove a CTSV, then, sure.
<rick_h__> they made the trackpad I have...oh wait I have a thinkpad :P
<rick_h__> which includes a samsung display, a synaptic pointing device, an intel ssd...
<snap-l> Only people who are sponsored have to rattle off the list of things in their equipment
<snap-l> Think: NASCAR
<rick_h__> "Stallman inside!"
<greg-g> man, you guys are still talking about this?
<rick_h__> :P
<paultag> bleh
<rick_h__> too many good jokes in here
<greg-g> I leave for 10 minutes and you can't handle yourselves ;)
<snap-l> greg-g: no dead horse left inbeaten
<snap-l> unbeaten
<rick_h__> inbeaten! hah
<snap-l> orbeanten
<rick_h__> lmao Gnome Do for github! https://github.com/blog/1267-github-launch-page
<krondor> oh man I need to stop reading comments about the diceholdings geeknet acquisitions
<rick_h__> heh, saying anything good? I've not checked out the comments
<krondor> no, they're just degressing into youtube style nonsense.  Slashdot is actually the least annoying at the moment.
<krondor> reading the HN thread on it will make your life hurt
<snap-l> krondor: I can't handle HN.
<snap-l> reddit get get stupid, but HN gets smug.
<paultag> HN is crap. Full of brogrammers and sexist neckbeards.
<rick_h__> ok, wtf is this about a patent infringment hosting github?
<paultag> rick_h__: just saw that on LWN
<paultag> the patents look silly, don't think it'll hold up
<rick_h__> I can't figure out how this works...I mean...what's a host got to do with the patent of the software? http://techcrunch.com/2012/09/18/patent-complaint-filed-against-rackspace-for-hosting-github/
<greg-g> paultag: famous last words
<snap-l> I need to patent a method for turning oxygen and water into carbon dioxide,and sue everyone that breathes.
<rick_h__> I'm trying to wade through the doc to find the 'patent' part
<krondor> sigh brogrammers... I hate that it is a thing
<paultag> greg-g: aye
<paultag> krondor: let's totally bro out and crush some code brah
<greg-g> you all just be glad you don't live in brogrammer mecca
<paultag> let me get the dave matthews
<paultag> greg-g++
<snap-l> greg-g: I still don't understand why the Samsung / Apple trial was presented in front of a jur
<snap-l> jury
<snap-l> patent lawyers have a hard enough time with this, but 12 people off the street are perfectly fine?
<rick_h__> On July 2, 2002, United States Patent No. 6,415,280 (the ââ280 patentâ) was dulyand legally issued for an invention entitled âIdentifying and Requesting Data in Network UsingIdentifiers Which Are Based On Contents of Data.â
<rick_h__> w...t...f...
<greg-g> rick_h__: welcomed to the shitty world of software patents
<greg-g> s/welcomed/welcome/
<jcastro> http://www.androidpolice.com/2012/09/18/ux-things-i-hate-about-android/
<jcastro> man
<jcastro> preach it brotha!
<greg-g> I am beginning to see violent imagery on a regular basis involving baseball bats and stupid people
<paultag> greg-g: welcome to my life
<jrwren> why wouldn't the trial be in front of a jury?
<jrwren> IMO its a great thing that jobs
<jrwren> IMO its a great thing that we have a right to a jury. if something is so complex that it cant be explained, then its a warning sign
<snap-l> jrwren: Consider this the dead canary.
<jhansonxi> Humble Indie Bundle 6 is available: http://www.humblebundle.com
<rick_h__> party
<greg-g> +1/-1 this idea: Creative Commons partners with Humble Bundle to do a bundle of great CC-licensed music albums (or maybe short films?). CC gets a share of the proceeds a la what EFF gets now.
<greg-g> (and the creators obviously do as well, a la what they do now)
<jhansonxi> They did have a movie in a previous bundle.  They sometimes include a full game music download for some games.
<greg-g> yeah, I've seen that, but this is a specific idea, like it or no? :)
 * greg-g is looking for fundraising methods for CC
<greg-g> momma's gotta pay rent!
<rick_h__> hah
<snap-l> greg-g: Did you see the Double Dragon Neon soundtrack was released CC?
<snap-l> I added it to the end of the latest OMC
<jhansonxi> Music is kind of a crowded market.  I haven't heard much about the Severed Fifth/Liberate album (Jono Bacon's band).  I suspect that a free offering wasn't too successful at generating revenue.  Death Metal is a niche which doesn't help.
<greg-g> so, again, the marketing arm behind Humble Bundle and CC for a pay-what-you-want collection of 5 or so albums: like it or not?
<jhansonxi>  Depends on the albums.  I have a wide range of tastes but many people don't.  There's no shortage of bad music on the Internet.  I'm not against the HB/CC concept.
<greg-g> ok, so a 0 then. got it.
<greg-g> :)
<paultag> so, who's down for some debian bug squashing at OLF?
<jrwren> anyone know of jmeter alternatives?
<snap-l> greg-g: They did a pay-waht-you-want for some non-CC music
<snap-l> I was pretty non-plussed about it
<snap-l> Problem is music is quite taste-specific
<snap-l> I may never play half the games for the bundle, but I'll still buy it
<snap-l> The music piece, I'll be more picky about
<snap-l> I don't know why that is. ;P
<rick_h__> https://twitter.com/alex_gaynor/status/248108457721475072 for brousch
<jcastro> anyone going to OLF from MI?
<rick_h__> snap-l: I think, maybe waldo
<snap-l> I'm going
<snap-l> along with JoDee.
<jcastro> for the whole weekend?
<snap-l> That's the plan.
<snap-l> Driving down Friday, coming back Sunday
<jcastro> I'm going down Fri but I can't stay, so will likely leave that night
<snap-l> Oh, bugger.
<greg-g> lamer
<snap-l> Cards Against Humanity is back in stock
<snap-l> and ordered.
<rick_h__> oh yea?
<rick_h__> cool, going to order for my neighbor
<snap-l> Yep. Just snagged a copy, plus the expansions
<rick_h__> meh, he can get the extensions
<rick_h__> hah, snap-l beats the email
<snap-l> Nah, I got the e-mail and then ordered. ;)
 * snap-l is quick like that. ;)
<brousch> There are extensions already?
<rick_h__> two expansion packs with goodies in there
<brousch> I haven't even played yet
<greg-g> I give to you http://www.cipsum.com for your enjoyment
<devinheitmueller> It's like the Dilbert Jargonator that came with the screensaver I had in 1998!
<paultag> greg-g: i've been using http://hipsteripsum.me/ lately
<paultag> http://hipsteripsum.me/?paras=4&type=hipster-latin
<greg-g> paultag: nice :)
<greg-g> devinheitmueller: :)
<krondor> jcastro:  I'm going to olf
<paultag> jcastro_: I'll be there, if you need someone to drink with.
 * krondor hours late to the scrollback
<jcastro_> paultag, excellent
<paultag> jcastro: I'll be at the hyatt, i'll be coming in friday afternoon
<jhansonxi> I'm thinking about attending OLF also.  Probably driving down Friday from Alpena and coming back Sunday morning.
<paultag> if anyone wants to get down on some beersigning, I'll bring GPG slips
<krondor> is there a good chrome plugin for gpg in gmail?
<krondor> all I've seen is cr-gpg and it looks a bit rough (compared to firegpg)
<jrwren> turns out that GeneratorExit error was a red herring
<greg-g> krondor: it's call mutt :P
<greg-g> s/call/called/ #grr
<rick_h__> :)
<jrwren> also turns out that if a client closes a socket on cherrypy 2.2.x, it leaks file handles
<krondor> greg-g:  but then how will I read those pretty newegg newsletters
<rick_h__> krondor: I usually do a v (select html file) <enter>
<rick_h__> and it opens in chrome :)
<krondor> I don't know, I really like the gmail ui though and if encouraging more CLI for me can only end badly.
<krondor> next thing you know i'll be on gentoo again
<rick_h__> hah, like a recovering addict
<greg-g> haha, one taste of the stuff...
<krondor> quitting time I'm out :)
<jhansonxi> greg-g:  Not quite what you were thinking with HB/CC but similar: http://groupees.com/taproot
<greg-g> jhansonxi: interesting, had not heard of that
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-09-19
<widox> rick_h__: what wrist rest do you have? is it a smaller tenkeyless one?
<snap-l> jcastro: Dude, you have to get this tour on DVD / Bluray
<rick_h_> widox: kind of. I use a generic 3m gel wrist wrest from compusa or something
<rick_h_> widox: it's a bit thinner than the ones from elitekeyboards and I've had it a long time so thinking of getting an elitekeyboard one to try sometime
<_stink_> in case anyone who cares is in here but hasn't seen the news on Farcebook... we had another son on 9/17. Henry Thomas Lincoln. All are healthy. And i'm relearning to type one handed.
<brousch> Go _stink_!
<rick_h_> _stink_: dude! wtf didn't hear a thing
<rick_h_> _stink_: congrats!
<rick_h_> sons rule! lol
<brousch> daughters drool!
<snap-l> Good morning
<snap-l> _stink_: Man, you kept that under wraps pretty well
<rick_h_> morning
<rick_h_> snap-l: how was the show?
<snap-l> It was awesome.
<snap-l> They did a heavy chunk of their more synth-based albums (Signals, Power Windows, Grace Under Pressure)
<snap-l> And then played a good part of Clockwork Angels with an 8-piece string orchestra
<snap-l> afterward, they played more of the "stringy" stuff
<snap-l> like Red Sector A
<snap-l> Then they ripped into YYZ, said "Farewell to strings" and  finshed off the night with more of their trio stuff (Working Man, Tom Sawyer, heavier selections of 2112)
<snap-l> And JoDee managed to get some uber fan next to her who sang during the whole show, and spilled a little beer
<snap-l> on her
<rick_h_> ugh, I hate that
<rick_h_> I think that's when I'll go to a concert again...when they ban beer
<snap-l> Yeah, and next time we're not getting main floor, because most folks at the concert were 6' 1"
<snap-l> so JoDee could barely see.
<brousch> heheh
<rick_h_> and productivity drops as people spend all day panning around xkcd
<rick_h_> whoa, bigger than I thought http://www.comicmix.com/webcomics-you-should-be-reading/2012/09/19/xkcd-click-and-drag-the-biggest-comic-ever/
<brousch> I went for like 5 minutes and it was still going
<brousch> "Yes, there are people who have started stitching the full image together, but weâd like to warn you that the full image is not safe for work. Not that there are any naughty bits, but the full-size image is so large it will crash most computers if you try to open it."
<rick_h_> yea, I found a stitched low-res image
<rick_h_> I knew there were bits below but coudln't find them
<brousch> I found a cthulu
<snap-l> I tried to cheat and do a save as.
<rick_h_> woot http://edc.srvs.us/1110/ is one image that works for me
<rick_h_> though chrome is ramping up the RAM usage on me
<brousch> snap-l: You can't handle the terapixels!
<rick_h_> the problem is it's a ton of images loaded via ajax so you can't just save as
<brousch> Sure you can. Just download them all and stitch them together
<brousch> Go on. I'll wait
<rick_h_> wow...just went over the total image from the left corner and made it back to the center image. All in one row, not up/down. Took 5min. Just the west line
<rick_h_> http://xkcd-map.rent-a-geek.de/ cool ui around it
<brousch> didn't this just come out today?
<rick_h_> yea
<rick_h_> like I said...pruductivity drop
<rick_h_> productivity ugh
<widox> rick_h_: was looking at that one, filco also makes one. both kinda pricey though
<rick_h_> widox: yea, I think I've got something like this http://goo.gl/RrxTo
<rick_h_> or maybe even this one http://www.amazon.com/3M-Leatherette-Antimicrobial-Protection-WR309LE/dp/B000X4WCJU/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1348060325&sr=8-1&keywords=3m+gel+wrist+rest
<rick_h_> though I wouldn't call it 'leatherette'
<rick_h_> widox: but yea, the elitekeyboard ones are pricey, but since I tend to use it all the time and this 3m one lasted years and year I figure it'd be worth it long term
<rick_h_> widox: did you end up getting a keyboard?
<snap-l> Warm.... leatherette
<brousch> fetish
<rick_h_> come see me when that rsi hits
<rick_h_> :P
<brousch> I avoid it by typing with 4 fingers
<rick_h_> hah
<brousch> One time I tried proper typing, and my wrists hurt within 2 days
<brousch> Also, I go back and forth from keyboard to mouse a lot
<rick_h_> :(
<brousch> Inefficient, I know
<brousch> Well, actually not mouse, but nipple and trackpad
<widox> rick_h_: I was going to buy a Filco with brown switches. but out of stock :(
<rick_h_> doh
<rick_h_> brousch: so you type full time on the laptop keyboard?!
<brousch> yep
 * rick_h_ runs
<rick_h_> man, I can only do that for a couple of days. Worst thing about pycon is living on the laptop for afull week
<brousch> With a total of 3 -5 fingers
<widox> there's one place that has them, but its overseas and the shipping + foreign charge doesn't entice me
<rick_h_> widox: yea, I'm not that nutty for those guys that get them from asia and replace keycaps/etc
<widox> I may just go leopold. getting kinda antsy
<rick_h_> widox: sell you one :)
<widox> rick_h_: hmm. I might be interested
<widox> have you tried the black/red switches at all?
<rick_h_> widox: no, not tried them. They seem far off what I want
<widox> the blacks take even stiffer. curious what that's like
<widox> but, no clicky
<rick_h_> I worry it feeling mushy without the feedback
<_stink_> rick_h_ snap-l  brousch: thanks folks!
<rick_h_> _stink_: now you'll never get to a CHC :P
<_stink_> rick_h_: tell me about it
<_stink_> not like i was coming much anyway :P
<snap-l> Yeah, but you'll be even less likely.
<jcastro> snap-l, man that looks excellent
<jcastro> I was "that guy" at the Roger Waters concert, singing along really loud
<jcastro> sounds like the set list is my favorite kind of Rush too
<snap-l> yeah, though we got the "Night B" list
<snap-l> Apparently they're playing Manhattan Project and The Body Electric as well
<snap-l> http://www.rushisaband.com/blog/2012/09/18/3319/Rush-Clockwork-Angels-tour-Detroit-open-thread
<brousch> _stink_: http://ow.ly/i/WKyQ
<rick_h_> wheee, more patent bombs flying around http://goo.gl/fXC8P
<rick_h_> they're not asking for much are they?
<greg-g> Did you ever watch Patent Absurdity?
<greg-g> buddy and ex-CCer Chris Webber created some of the graphics for it, the one depicting SWPAT Nuclear War was great
<greg-g> this is that
<rick_h_> no, haven't seen that
<rick_h_> but yea, sure seems like things are getting more and more escalated
<snap-l> metalinjection.fm is playing pirate metal
<snap-l> so if your yard-arm swings that way, give it a listen.
<PainBank> what is the git command to show what files are part of a commit?
<PainBank> git log .... with what else?
<jrwren> don't recall, but git help log has teh anser
<brousch> http://www.reddit.com/r/django/comments/105iim/obviously_ive_been_watching_way_too_many/
<rick_h_> git status
<rick_h_> PainBank: oh, of a already happened commit?
<rick_h_> PainBank: git log --stat
<rick_h_> see git log --help
<rick_h_> PainBank: and some .gitconfig goodness http://paste.mitechie.com/show/798/
<rick_h_> so git lf is how I see which files
<PainBank> thanks
<PainBank> rick_h_ so your .tigconfig add some shortucts  cool.
<snap-l> I feel like I'm playing Civilization when I type: from __future__ import division
<snap-l> like it's one of the technoligies my civilization hasn't discovered yet.
<rick_h_droid> PainBank yea shortcuts ftw
<PainBank> yup
<brousch> It never fails. No matter how many communication channels I use to announce a meeting, someone has to ask me individually
<devinheitmueller> brousch: when is the meeting again?
<devinheitmueller> :-)
<snap-l> brousch: There's a meeting?
<brousch> Hm, I'm usually the one trolling, safe on my side of the state
<brousch> You bastards
<snap-l> You're welcome. :)
<brousch> OK, /r/Django is a bunch of humorless asshats http://www.reddit.com/r/django/comments/105iim/obviously_ive_been_watching_way_too_many/
<jrwren> its not a humor reddit.
<snap-l> This is a surprise?
<jrwren> i was going to downvote, but saw it was you, so I didn't.
<brousch> I rest my case
<brousch> Every Reddit is a humor Reddit
<brousch> Hell, I could barely figure out how to post it because the whole site is in pirate today
<PainBank> what meeting is this?
<greg-g> heh, my tor relay (non-exit) was connected to this computer: dco-loaner.eecs.umich.edu
<greg-g> which appears to be a loaner laptop dns name, but it serves up an ssl from telex.cc
<snap-l> Pragmatic Programmer is now a DRM-free ebook from PragProg
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-09-20
<jcastro_> hey rick_h_
<rick_h_> jcastro_: howdy
<jcastro_> http://diy.stackexchange.com/questions/18244/is-it-possible-to-use-a-hot-water-recirculation-pump-with-a-pex-home-run-system
<jcastro_> it has begun
<jcastro_> rick_h_: We closed today
<rick_h_> jcastro_: awesome! congrats on making it through the paperwork
<jcastro_> 5 hours
<jcastro_> I wanted to kill everything and everyone
<rick_h_> hah
<rick_h_> nice, and jealous of your pex
<rick_h_> so much nicer to work with than ole copper
<brousch> rick_h_: The pupil is teaching the master on IRC?
<rick_h_> brousch: not really, not sure what the originally problem was but he's not a JS dev from the looks of things
<jrwren> jcastro_: congrats!
<jcastro_> <3
<jcastro_> jrwren, we can have people over soon
<jcastro_> probably 3 weeks or so
<jcastro_> unless you like sitting on an empty floor, heh
<snap-l> I'll bring my Yoga Mat.
<rick_h_> yea, I've got these great floor mat puzzle parts that have letters and numbers you can take out and teach with
<rick_h_> jcastro_: "what letter is this?"
<jcastro_> hah
<jcastro_> I already got an answer to my question
<rick_h_> awesome
<jcastro_> man, everything about stackexchange is so freaking awesome
<jrwren> indeed SE is awesome
<rick_h_> jcastro_: so sounds like just don't worry about it
<jcastro_> yeah
<jcastro_> basically, suck it up
<rick_h_> hah
<jcastro_> gordon put one in his house
<rick_h_> jcastro_: so you have inline hot water then?
<rick_h_> jcastro_: or do you have an actual heater tank?
<jcastro_> I have a tank
<jcastro_> it's in the picture, bottom right
<jcastro_> you can see the top of it
<jcastro_> rick_h_ I need an awesome indoor ladder
<jcastro_> for like, light bulbs and doing other crap
<jcastro_> is there some ninja brand you recommend?
<rick_h_> jcastro_: so I've got a simple foldable for inside the house. but I've got a gorilla ladder for the larger duties I love
<rick_h_> but it's a bit heavy/overkill for light bulbs and such. Shoot, I just tend to use a kitchen chair
<jrwren> he left
<rick_h_> doh
<rick_h_> connection hung for a second and missed that
<rick_h_> morning ugh
<jrwren> morn
<brousch> quark
<rick_h_> so I'm not supposed to order this right? http://oreedesign.com/ it would just be furthering the fetish?
<brousch> If you have twice as many keyboards as you actually need, then you have a problem
<rick_h_> hmmm, so what's 'need'?
<brousch> 1 for each computer
<rick_h_> so if I count everything with a usb port I think I'm safe...
<brousch> Your laptop has one built-in
<rick_h_> ah come on, you can't count built in keyboards in the count
<brousch> Maybe a bluetooht keyboard for your tablet and phone
<snap-l> Good morning
<snap-l> rick_h_: But what kind of switches does it have?
<shakes808> Good morning all.
<shakes808> I want to make a batch script to close all currently opened windows. I had found a taskkill /im program.exe but I would have to put in all the programs that I want to check for. Is there a way to check for opened windows and close them in few lines?
<rick_h_> https://plus.google.com/u/0/106436370949746015255/posts/2Y4GjBCjxbR snap-l
<snap-l> rick_h_: firestarter. :)
<rick_h_> snap-l: bwuhahahahaha
<_stink_> brousch: hahaha
<rick_h_> Chrome: http://ubuntuone.com/4m2YYq3itkCaorK2DP4g2F
<rick_h_> Firefox: http://ubuntuone.com/1QlZSJOxWWCiHBDJrETdHu
<rick_h_> IE: http://ubuntuone.com/3ZEJ2yoTBapMPk01E6C3Wo
<rick_h_> JS fun for the web devs
<rick_h_> making a point to work folks and figured I'd share
<rick_h_> lmao http://theamazingios6maps.tumblr.com/
<snap-l> I hope Apple and Google make peace soon.
<jcastro_> hah
<brousch> ahahahahhaah
<snap-l> http://www.metalinjection.net/lists/according-to-rolling-stone-readers-no-good-metal-albums-came-out-in-the-last-20-years
<jcastro_> smoser, it got cold, I wanted ice cream today
<smoser> :)
<smoser> you have to turn the heat on in your new house?
<jcastro_> heh
<jcastro_> I'm in plymouth, no internet there yet
<jcastro_> snap-l, so basically the article is common sense, we all know that already. :)
<rick_h_> jcastro_: heading out AA way to hit up the woodworking group tonight
<rick_h_> want to see some real tools, there you go :)
<jcastro_> time?
<rick_h_> 6:30 I think, Ypsi way
<jcastro_> jill has the car until like 9 tonight, but I think I'm on your way?
<rick_h_> jcastro_: sorry, 7pm
<rick_h_> jcastro_: probably can be, pm me an address if you're interested
<jcastro_> for sure
<rick_h_> there's like 5 ways for me to get there from here
<jcastro_> I have a bunch of questions to ask you
<snap-l> jcastro_: Just goes to show Rolling Stone is for people who hate music.
<jcastro_> heh
<jcastro_> 20 years is pushing it
<jcastro_> 10, not so much
<jrwren> i would say no good american metal albums came out.
<jrwren> lordi's arockalypse was awesome.
<jrwren> I enjoy Soata Arctica's entire discography
<jrwren> there is some really great metal out there.
<jrwren> sorry its not rolling stone shit mainstream shit.
<snap-l> Problem is it's quite fragmented
<snap-l> there's a ton of awesome music out there that some folks really aren't into
<snap-l> there's no shared experience metal albums
<snap-l> So a list like that is going to be heavily skewed to the older stuff, because folks had a common experience with those albums
<snap-l> I can name a ton of great albums that should be on that list, but not everyone has had the same experience with those albums
<snap-l> Sepultura's Arise
<snap-l> Lamb of God's Sacrament
<jrwren> snap-l: i probably don't like any of hte albums on that list :)
<snap-l> jrwren: Well, I like Lordi, but not sure I'd put it in the classic status yet. ;)
<snap-l> Sepultura's Arise or Beneath the Remains would get a nod
<snap-l> Death: Symbolic
<snap-l> Or even The Sound of Perseverance
<snap-l> Obituary's Cause of Death
<snap-l> Megadeth's Rust in Peace or Peace Sells would be in that list
<snap-l> Newer stuff, I think Chimaira's "Chimaira" album is classic
<snap-l> Mastodon's Crack the Skye is amazing
<snap-l> Dream Theater's Images and Words would also rank
<snap-l> Anthrax's Among the Living is seminal
<snap-l> I think the problem is separating the ones that could be considered classics with the ones that already are.
<snap-l> Oh, yeah, Testament's The Gathering is amazing.
<jrwren> no cradle of philth?
<snap-l> I never got into them
<snap-l> Was too campy for me
<snap-l> also never got into much GWAR, but totally respect the act.
<jrwren> same.
<snap-l> Oh, Decapitated's Nihility and The Faceless Planetary Duality
<snap-l> So, I don't think I'm too far off base. ;)
<snap-l> And Metallica's Master of Puppets should be on that list, no question
<snap-l> as should Guns and Roses Appetite... That album is a classic
<snap-l> not sure Metallica's other albums should be up there excluding other artists.
<snap-l> ... and justice is a great album, but puppets is far better.
<snap-l> and I can't speak intelligently about Black Sabbath's albums, as I haven't picked any up (yes, I only have a greatest hits, and that's enough for me)
<jrwren> Black Sabbath's Black Sabbath is the only one in the list that i like :)
<jrwren> but its not ZOMG awesome, IMO so I wouldn't have it on the list.
<jrwren> i suppose this is how awards go... its choice by commitee.
<jrwren> distilled down to least common denominator
<snap-l> Yeah, but I can see why it's there. There's plenty of folks who hold Black Sabbath in higher regard than I do
<snap-l> I'm surprised Led Zeppelin isn't on that list
<snap-l> maybe they're no longer considered heavy metal.
<snap-l> I can totally understand why Rush isn't on that list. Rolling Stone hates Rush.
<rick_h_> lmao http://theamazingios6maps.tumblr.com/post/31929646495/no-ios6maps-i-dont-have-to-take-a-ferry-to
<snap-l> What do folks use for money management. I'm starting to get fed up with moneydance.
<snap-l> or more accurately, I love Moneydance, but Java can find a comfy fire to die in
<rick_h_> spreadsheet :/
<rick_h_> I've never been able to get that stuff all setup
<brousch> I use a spreadsheet too
<snap-l> Oh FFS.
<snap-l> Seriously? You folks just use a spreadsheet for your banking?
<snap-l> No wonder the banking industry uses shit like QIF then. Nobody bitches about it.
<rick_h_> every time I try to use an app and pull down my data I spend all my time trying to fix, debug, and tag crap
<rick_h_> screw it
<snap-l> Yeah, that's been a big bugaboo for me with Moneydance
<brousch> Balancing check books is for old people
<snap-l> Every time I export the QIF into something like GNUCash, it's a complete mess
<jcastro_> https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-a560QseT0Zo/UFt3GWTr6OI/AAAAAAAAHk0/2CnFWoReRwI/s1493/NASA-Apple.png
<jcastro_> AWESOME.
<brousch> PyCon ticket sales are open
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-09-21
<greg-g> snap-l: I'm an unhappy mint user. Yes, I know.
<greg-g> thanks for that image, jcastro_ :)
<snap-l> greg-g: Yeah, seems most folks use Mint or a spreadsheet
<snap-l> and frankly, if I have to use a spreadsheet, I'm installing postgresql
<snap-l> because I wannt replication. ;)
<rick_h_> woot, new saws arrived, so shiny
<rick_h_> I should and not go cut wood right?
<Blazeix> wait a bit for everyone to fall asleep. they won't notice once they're asleep.
<rick_h_> gotcha, good plan
<brousch> Any of you slackjaws joing to 1DevDay Detroit?
<snap-l> Yeah, I'm planning onit
<snap-l> I even have a promo code if you want to save 20% off
<snap-l> DECAFBAD
<snap-l> Rick has one too: LOCOCAST
<snap-l> but mine is easier to type
<widox> also planning to go
<brousch> heh, they sent promo codes for GR_WEB_DEV and GR_MOBILE_DEV too
<snap-l> bah, you're no fun. ;)
<brousch> How did you get your own personal code?
<snap-l> MUG
<snap-l> They just used decafbad as the code
<snap-l> Ow. Cat managed to run into my foot right as I was walking by a table
<snap-l> she forced me to stub my toe
<snap-l> She's quite unhappy because JoDee washed the floor, and some cat just marked the entire kitchen (ammonia)
<brousch> This must not be allowed to go unpunished. Bring the pain.
<brousch> rick_h_: Plone?! WTF
<snap-l> PC World: Smoking Crack since 1996
<snap-l> I take whatever they say with the same consideration I'd take a person completely shitfaced telling me how the world really works.
<snap-l> They might be completely correct, but the source is suspect.
<rick_h_> brousch: well the guy I RT runs a PLONE/Pyramid shop in IN and contributes a lot to PyOhio
<rick_h_> so backing the good guys
<rick_h_> but yea, plone is wordpress on steriods
<brousch> I'm not saying Plone is bad, I'm saying it's not something you "Try today"
<brousch> It's certainly not "an app"
<rick_h_> sure it is, if wordpress is an app so is plone
<rick_h_> joomla, etc
<brousch> Those are not apps
<brousch> apps are little programs
<brousch> You one-click install an app and dive into it's intuitive interface
<rick_h_> app/program? Sorry, but I think you've been app-store-ized
<rick_h_> brousch: like GIMP?
<rick_h_> "one click install and dive in....help help I'm lost"
<brousch> I have muggles using Gimp and wordPress. Now imagine telling them, "Hey, go try Plone!"
<snap-l> brousch: I'm sure they'd love it
<snap-l> Have them do Drupal next.
<snap-l> It's not an app, it's a taxonomy with plugins
<rick_h_> oh man, muggles, love it
<brousch> Right, it's the same as telling them to go try Drupal
<brousch> Hey you, on the Windows computer, go try Drupal! It's won an award!
<rick_h_> I'm going to force you to write out the short app into application and let's have this discussion again
<brousch> I still think of an application you run locally
<rick_h_> 'It's certainly not "an application"'
<brousch> If it's a web thing, it's a service
<rick_h_> except bookie is a pyramid applicatino
<rick_h_> :P
<rick_h_> and I've heard you write django applications
<rick_h_> and plone is a python application
<brousch> That's the technical term for them
<brousch> But ask a muggle what's an app or an application. They won't reply with a website
<snap-l> brousch: I'd like data to back that assertion
<snap-l> Facebook is an app in that parlance.
<brousch> No, there are facebooks apps on your phone. They connect the Facebook the website
<brousch> You don't install Facebook on your computer
<rick_h_> what's your email app?
<rick_h_> oh gmail?
<brousch> The Gmail app on my phone is my email app
<snap-l> brousch: You're splitting artificial semantics.
<brousch> I use Gmail (the website) for my email
<jjesse> is it the actual website or a web app that loads the website?
<brousch> They are different things. Gmail is the web service running my email. The Gmail app is the little thing on my phone that connects to it
<rick_h_> brousch: just admit defeat, a web based application counts as an app. App is generic, held hostage by the iFolks
<snap-l> and the Firefox is the thing I use to get to that stuff (or the Chrome)
<rick_h_> apps on app in app ...turtles
<brousch> It is about scale and where they are installed
<rick_h_> different apps for different strokes :P
<snap-l> brousch: Thank you for playing Family Feud, but unfortunately Apps is not what you think they mean.
<snap-l> Our SURVEY SAID.... X!
<brousch> OK, I'm going to get some actual data
<snap-l> Get ready for disappointment.
<brousch> I will ask people "What is an app?" and then "What is an application?" and then "Do you think Facebook is an app? Do you think it's an application? IF no, then what is it?"
<snap-l> And it's all in the wording
<brousch> Suggest better wording
<snap-l> No, we'll run with what you have
<brousch> I will be asking the same people who say the Internet is down when they have forgotten to turn on their monitor
<brousch> Half of these people don't even own a smartphone, so app should be interesting
<jjesse> brousch, Facebook is the internet
<jjesse> kinda like AOL is the internet or the blue Internet "icon I click on" is the internet
<brousch> Damnit. Why is everyone busy when I want to waste their time with stupid questions?
<snap-l> brousch: Because you're the IT guy, and nobody has time for you unless you take down the Internet
<brousch> Good plan. Then they'll come to my office to waste my time and I can waste theirs right back
<Blazeix> snap-l: what are the guidelines on using those 1devday codes?
<Blazeix> like if i have a couple (~5) coworkers that want to go, can I have them use those codes?
<brousch> Blazeix: I think so
<brousch> I mean, they sent ours to a 500 person user group list
<brousch> I think they're trying to track where you heard about 1devday via the signup codes
<brousch> So if you heard about it from snap-l, then you and your friends use decafbad, then the organizers get an idea of where people are coming from and who is spreading the wrod
<Blazeix> ok, thanks. I think i'll use the DECAFBAD code, though I'll wait for confirmation from snap-l :)
<brousch> Oh, and just to beat a dead horse, a Django app (startapp) is supposed to be a small, self-contained piece of a Django project (startproject)
<rick_h_> Blazeix: nooo use LOCOCAST :P
<rick_h_> of DECAFBAD
<brousch> Technically he should use the code from the person who first told him about 1devday
<brousch> I think
<brousch> Or maybe the person who convinced him to go
<Blazeix> i think i heard about it more through snap-l than lococast, but I'll use whatever rick_h_ and snap-l tell me to :)
 * brousch waits for video of the inevitable slap-fight
<PainBank> use DILDOBLASTER_AKA_SNAPL
<Blazeix> what a coincidence, that's in my email signature.
<rick_h_> I need a Rick's Rage indicator. Kind of like a hulk-meter.
<rick_h_> "RICK SMASH DEV'S HEAD"
<PainBank> yes!
<brousch> I'd use that app
<rick_h_> I need to quit thinking logically "Hmm, if this JS worked anything near sane I'd expect to use it this way..."
<rick_h_> "If I was a retard doing JS fresh out of grade school...how would this work? F'in Magic yay!"
<widox> rick_h_: "but, but, this blog I read said it would work; so I just copied and pasted it"
<rick_h_> it's like in one file with two different classes. In one case they have custom events that pass data as an extra arguments to the events but the other EXACT SAME CASE they don't.
<rick_h_> written at one time by the same guy
<widox> heh
<rick_h_> and if the JS module is lp.app.information_type then why is the method called save_information_type
<rick_h_> get_information_type_text_for_banner
<rick_h_> confirm_information_type_change
<rick_h_> GAH!!!!!
<rick_h_> step one, write some code, step two go caremad, step 3 refactor...dammit where's the profit?
<Blazeix> i just opened a new client's codebase. There's a "util" directory with 25 different "util" suffixed classes.
<Blazeix> this is going to be awesome ~
<rick_h_> woo!
<rick_h_> Blazeix: and I will be rocking the caremad for the Friday
<rick_h_> I just stashed my changes and started a new branch named "fix_fin_names"
<rick_h_> I can't type that crap any more today
<Blazeix> hm, never heard the term "caremad", but I like it
<rick_h_> yea, I see it on twitter all the time and I like it https://twitter.com/#!/search/?q=caremad&src=typd
<rick_h_> I care so much that this angers me
<rick_h_> OMG OMG OMG http://www.androidcentral.com/jelly-bean-rolling-out-some-verizon-galaxy-nexus-units
<rick_h_> friday gets better
<rick_h_> https://plus.google.com/110797033768165620589/posts/JoB1QE7rnet *sigh*
<brousch> Recommend the Ubuntu distro of emacs
<rick_h_> "Linux...it just works"
<PainBank> if I was working on a linux machine I would setup an hourly trigger to automatically do a git commit to my currently working repos.
<rick_h_> https://github.com/bartman/git-wip
<shakes808> Good day all.
<PainBank> rick_h_ very nice, thanks!
<rick_h_> PainBank: yea, I knew a guy that setup a io notify to run tests every time he saved a file and if the test passed it would auto commit
<rick_h_> kind of cool idea if you're big TDD
<snap-l> Blazeix: Feel free to use whatever code you wish
<snap-l> I have no dog in this fight
<snap-l> but I will personally disown you if you use brousch's or rick_h_'s code.
<snap-l> just sayin'. ;)
<brousch> ArtPrize is really ramping up http://www.fox17online.com/news/fox17-artprize-day-one-of-artprize-doesnt-end-without-controversy-20120919,0,1175749.story
<rick_h_> most awesome thing of the day https://plus.google.com/u/0/116120911388966791792/posts/Rz63iTxbb71
<rick_h_> dad's take some notes greg-g _stink_ brousch
<brousch> I call fake. No one's favorite train is Stanley
<rick_h_> brousch: man that was hard to read
<rick_h_> s/through/threw and such
<brousch> It's Fox, what do you expect?
<rick_h_> english?
<brousch> Hah!
<brousch> I just started playing a game with my son. He got a Despicable Me minion from Universal Studios and it has a little magnet in it. I keep moving it around the house and sticking it to random things when George isn't looking
<rick_h_> ok, so I'm allowed to poke fun at this guy right? http://www.nickwoodhams.com/post/31988005655
<brousch> Wow
<brousch> "The rep then encourages you to open your iPhone and shares in your excitement. "
<greg-g> rick_h_: hahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahaha *cough* *cough* ahah *cough* hahahhaahhaahahahahahahhahahaha
<rick_h_> greg-g: quit, you're ruining my 'magical irc experience'
<brousch> Every message should be like a shining gift from zombie Steve Jobs
<rick_h_> clearly you all don't understand feeling the moment when you hand over $199 for a phone.
<rick_h_> it's the most moving experience, right up there with childbirth. My Dr did just like he said. Shared in our excitement.
<rick_h_> if some nurse had robbed me of that, I'd send the kid back and as for a do-over
<brousch> Sue the nurse
<brousch> Infringing on your right to pursue happiness
<rick_h_> heck yea, psych damange if I ever saw it
<_stink_> rick_h_: that's pretty awesome
<rick_h_> _stink_: yea, I'm having dad envy
<snap-l> OK, what's the approved way to do a query in sqlalchemy using filter with optional parameters?
<snap-l> ie: query.filter(and_(foo.bar == 'required', foo.baz == 'optional'))
<rick_h_> https://github.com/mitechie/Bookie/blob/develop/bookie/models/__init__.py#L144
<snap-l> Yeah, I need something a little more nuanced
<rick_h_> going to need more info to follow
<rick_h_> snap-l: you home or in the office?
<snap-l> I'm home
<rick_h_> hangout?
<snap-l> one sec.
<snap-l> greg-g: WOw, this is definitely shaking one's fist in their parent's basement fodder: http://twitterindependence.com/
<greg-g> it's just DUMB
<greg-g> that fucking "fork and do a merge request to sign, oh, and chat about it on hacker news" is just fucking dumb dumb dumb
<snap-l> IT's just a nice way to spam github with bullshit
<greg-g> s/a nice way to spam github with// # there, fixed that for you
<snap-l> heh
<snap-l> Well, I wonder how soon before github pulls the project
<snap-l> because it's essentially copying their manifesto across multiple users
<rick_h_> I don't know it's that bad. I mean it's extra work, so if they get any real signature count it's real people that went through effort and tied to real user accounts
<rick_h_> if I just setup a google doc with a form to submit your email address wtf does that list matter
<snap-l> it could hurt github's searchability.
<rick_h_> how so?
<snap-l> multiple copies of the same foo on there
<rick_h_> you've got 1000 results for pissed_twitter_dev repo?
<rick_h_> there's always that. Go check out jquery
<rick_h_> have fun, see you next year
<snap-l> heh
<rick_h_> the guy's a tool and just needs to stop using twitter though
<snap-l> Franly, I hope someone makes a push request to put some malicious code in there
<snap-l> rick_h_: ++
<greg-g> rick_h_: you sound like a "what's wrong with a voting tax?" person :P
<rick_h_> no, just a person that finds "my internet petition" to be about useless and pointless
<rick_h_> I have no faith in humanity and honesty
<rick_h_> I'd love to vote online from home, and I think it would be great for turnout. But I'm also very afraid of that fact. Driving to a poll means I want to vote/put forth some effort to do so.
<rick_h_> hopefully put in some thought
<rick_h_> and that says nothing about the potential for fraud
<rick_h_> "I've got 5 email accounts, I love to sign up to petitions early and often with all 5"
<rick_h_> kind of stuff
<greg-g> you know there are legitimate reasons why people can't easily get to polling stations due to all kinds of reasons
<rick_h_> and I totally know/buy/believe in that. Which is why I carefully phrased my nervousness :)
<greg-g> do what oregon does and vote by mail
<greg-g> heh
<greg-g> :)
<snap-l> There's no reason we can't do voting online
<snap-l> mail people a pin number and instructions for voting
<snap-l> if I can renew my driver's license online, I sure as shit should be able to vote online
<snap-l> but that's another topic altogether
<greg-g> if I can pay my federal student loans online...
<snap-l> and yes, I think online petitions are worthless, which is why I sign every one that i believe in
<rick_h_> people don't exactly have an incentive to break into the studen loan system and pay your laon for you :P
<jjesse> its funny i feel more secure putting my vote in some locked box then going to some web page
<greg-g> but they do have an incentive to break in and get my SSN and other info
<jjesse> but maybe i'm weird
<greg-g> jjesse: even though we know they aren't counted?
<jjesse> yes
<greg-g> but, we also know that those electronic voting machines don't count predictably either
<jjesse> i know the current system is broken
<greg-g> so, ef it
<greg-g> ;)
<jjesse> but i feel more comfortable w/ it in some weird way
<jjesse> i also don't believe any code that controls a voting system will be written in an open way that we can peer review it
<jjesse> i would be some corporation that develops it and is closed source
<jjesse> so how can i trust it?
<jjesse> and i just killed the channel
<snap-l> heh
<PainBank> If I can watch .... online or do ... online, then I should be able to vote....
<greg-g> jjesse: I think that assumption is just now starting to be challenged. I think those in the federal govt are just starting to see the benefits of at least peer-reveiwable code (whether or not openly/freely licensed)
<jjesse> greg-g,  i hope so
<snap-l> I think the last few elections have proven that what's there for computer votiing is flawed.
<greg-g> yeah, that was mostly a "I hope this is true" statement ;)
 * greg-g nods
<greg-g> heh, monkeyjuice?
<PainBank> No CD players in cars... make sense?
<snap-l> PainBank: Depends. I still play CDs in the car
<snap-l> mostly because I'm impatient, and have to listen to them on the way home
<snap-l> (from purchasing them)
<PainBank> yup
<PainBank> I agree.  Just wondering how long before they just will not be there.  extra hardware you don't need if you have BT to the phone, usb plug in or some other form of connecting media or phone.
<Blazeix> yeah, i wouldn't bother getting a cd player
<snap-l> I still think we're in the "OMG, where do my CDs go" phase of the car buying public
<snap-l> but I wouldn't be surprised if in three years they're phased out
<greg-g> snap-l: wait, you purchase CDs?
<greg-g> ;)
<snap-l> greg-g: Yep. Great used CD deals to be had out there
<greg-g> if you can find a used CD store
<greg-g> those were even dieing in Minneapolis
<PainBank> yup
<snap-l> THere's a few I haunt
<snap-l> flipside, UHF
<PainBank> flea markets!
<snap-l> want to go to SOlo records
<snap-l> THing is the ones that sell vinyl are fourishing
<PainBank> solo... that's funny
<greg-g> there's somethign about the wordpress composition tool that gives me writer's block
<snap-l> Damn hipsters are keeping these places afloat
<snap-l> it's the stark blank Word 5.1 look of it
<PainBank> iphones are like CDs... what hell do I do with v1-4?
<PainBank> haha
<snap-l> iPhones are not CDs.
<snap-l> Hell, even DVD AUdio / SACD / Bluray Audio haven't replaced CDs yet
<snap-l> mp3 is the cassette tape of audio
<brousch> I buy a CD if I can get it used from Amazon cheaper than paying for the MP3 download
<snap-l> Give me flac files and a digital booklet, and I'm content to forego the physical
<PainBank> well... 20 years from now....
<snap-l> brousch: ++
<snap-l> PainBank: 20 years from now I'll have all of the music I want. ;)
<snap-l> cashing 401k in for CD store. ;)
<PainBank> and then you'll be the damn hipster
<snap-l> for when the hipster shits start appreciating the CDs instead of using them as bike coasters
<PainBank> true
<greg-g> rick_h_: wow, just watched that toy in space vidoe. That is awesome.
<greg-g> rick_h_: definitely putting that one on my list for Rowan
<greg-g> btw! Rowan said his first word today!
<rick_h_> greg-g: woot! congrats
<greg-g> Book
<greg-g> Book was his first word, which is awesome/crazy
<greg-g> he woke up, and repeated "book" until he crawled over to a new book of his
<greg-g> he definitely knew what he was saying
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-09-22
<rick_h_> oh lovely, our first spam user in bookie
<rick_h_> guess it's time to start worrying about that crap
<Blazeix> but he's so good at adding tags!
<greg-g> rick_h_: engineering problems are all fun until they deal with spammers
<greg-g> dang, yeah they are, better than most of ya'll!
<rick_h_> I hate people...ugh
<snap-l> If there were any questions of whether I would have been laid off from ALU, this e-mail pretty much answered it: http://paste.mitechie.com/raw/G9ArNUXNKyC0h7GWDeIk/
<rick_h_> snap-l: yep, looks like a closed shop
<greg-g> snap-l: wait, you worked for AT&T?
<brousch> snap-l: I played Cards Against Humanity with my wife last night. This was the best play of the night (wife on left, me on right) https://dl.dropbox.com/u/101667/2012-09-21%2021.25.42.jpg
<rick_h_> brousch: lol
<tony-smlr> SMLR is  live http://www.youtube.com/user/tbemus?v=H3Rd9oS--D8
<snap-l> greg-g: Indirextly. ALU and AT&T partnered on the NSG sandbox. ALU provided the service and support. It was a bit strange how it was set up.
<snap-l> right place, rigbt time for me post SF.
<brousch> Ah, Unity http://yro.slashdot.org/story/12/09/22/1319216/ubuntu-will-now-have-amazon-ads-pre-installed
<brousch> Not as bad the title suggests
<snap-l> huh?
<snap-l> sorry, but this jist made 12.10 much less appealing.
<snap-l> i don't need something spying on my machine
<greg-g> brousch: snap-l what is this madness? Cards against Humanity?!?!
<snap-l> It's a irreverant card game
<snap-l> think of Apples to Apples, but with much more rude answers
<greg-g> holy heck more rude
<greg-g> not something I could play with my parents
<snap-l> greg-g: I didn't think so either, but my parents liked it
<greg-g> A2A is parents material, CAH is more, high schoolers under the bleachers
<snap-l> I think partly because some of them they didn't quite understand
<greg-g> I mean, the one that brousch shared was holy heck
<snap-l> greg-g: Nice thing is you can print out your own copy if you want
<greg-g> my dad would walk out of the room if he read that card :)
<greg-g> snap-l: oh nice indeed
<snap-l> And it's CC BY-NC-SA
<greg-g> DOWN WITH NC!
<greg-g> :P
<greg-g> sorry, couldn't resist
<snap-l> Yeah, thanks for that. :)
<greg-g> hey, I was just responding to a couple cc-community posts (non NC related, thankfully) so it's on my mind
<snap-l> Hoping to talk on the Music Manumit podcast about ND/ NC
<greg-g> uh oh
<greg-g> ;)
<greg-g> You know, there should be a long form debate on some podcast about this
<greg-g> preferably with people who know what they are talking about, that might be asking too much
<snap-l> greg-g: Well, I can talk out of my ass easier. ;)
<snap-l> and one of the folks on the podcast is a law studen
<snap-l> student
<snap-l> The other is a musician
<snap-l> They're strictly SA, though, so it should be entertaining
<brousch> greg-g: You haven't heard of CAH? WTF. I thought everything cool started in SF
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-09-23
<greg-g> snap-l: very interesting! (sorry, had to run out)
<greg-g> brousch: that's all lies
<Blazeix> turns out everything cool starts in Davenport, Iowa. SF just has a better marketing team
<snap-l> g'morning
<brousch> yes
<snap-l> si si
<brousch> Very nice http://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/10ca2c/dont_trust_us_erm_we_have_root_you_do_trust_us/
<rick_h_> ugh
<Blazeix> eh, it's maybe poorly worded, but i agree with Mark's post
<rick_h_> yea, I think end of the day it's just overreaction on that stuff
<Blazeix> it gives fodder to  people who like knee-jerk reactions
<rick_h_> it'll get polished up
<rick_h_> but yea, seeing things just pop out of the air gets the troll feeding going
<snap-l> Frankly Mark could post that he likes unicorns and lolipops, and end up pissing off the narwhal sucker-lovers.
<greg-g> rick_h_: it isn't that the troll feeding goes, its that things pop out of the air unannounced and without any communication to the community. I don't care about any specific change. I do caremad, however, that the changes are done without regard to the wider community's interestings.
<greg-g> that was my first use of the word caremad ;)
 * greg-g had an email exchange with Mark and Jono about this yesterday/last night/just now
<rick_h_> greg-g: yea, understand.
<rick_h_> you make a valid point on the community involvement, but I guess I've kind of given up on that long ago really
<rick_h_> unfortunatly
<greg-g> well, I'm a bulldog in this regard
<greg-g> I'm not letting go
<rick_h_> and I don't use the stuff (shhh don't tell anyone) so my caring levels are a bit lower
<greg-g> hah
<snap-l> Yeah, frankly I'm of the opinion that community is just another word for volunteer labor
<snap-l> Whatever voice I might have in the decisions of Ubuntu is moot when it's all said and done
<snap-l> The thing that kind of pisses me off about this whole thing is the notion that the door is open if you don't agree wit the choice.
<snap-l> Also, I think GnuCash has succeeded in making importing a QIF file more of a chore than any other program.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-09-16
<greg-g> rick_h_: we were going to switch to Ceph (from Swift), but ran into some show-stoppers :/
<greg-g> reported upstream, and we've even fixed a few with upstream (and they fixed a few), but it still isn't quite there :(
<derekv> there seemed to be a popular thing at GM to create a soap interface.  you send a soap envolope to a soap endpoint with a command in xml and get a soap response back, but you call the whole thing a "REST" interface.
<derekv> keep coming across it
<derekv> about as restful as I am gangsta
<rick_h_> greg-g: really? Interesting. Our IS guys have been really impressed with it. I've not messed with the use of it myself so just going off reputation. We've still got some swift, but it's all planned to go the way of the dodo
<cmaloney> Good morning
<rick_h_> morning
<rick_h_> cmaloney: spent some time looking into the hangouts stuff. Not sure how we're going to get an mp3 out of it yet :/
<cmaloney> Ugh
<brousch1> ffmpeg -i hangout.webm hangout.mp3
<greg-g> rick_h_: yeah, I don't know the specifics, but, we're a pretty tough customer :-) Our use case is pretty intense.
<rick_h_> greg-g: that's cool/good to know
<rick_h_> man, podcast syncing is soooo cool
<rick_h_> it's like getting audible syncing all over again
<greg-g> rick_h_: syncing on what?
<rick_h_> greg-g: pocketcasts android podcast app can sync your listening state/etc from devices
<rick_h_> greg-g: so was listening to a podcast, wanted to move to my phone with headphones, picked it right up where I left off on the tablet
<greg-g> nice
<cmaloney> That's really nice.
<cmaloney> btw: The Caribou in Royal Oak on Woodward is       â
<cmaloney> closing on Oct 6th
<cmaloney> rick_h_: ^
<cmaloney> at 10pm
<rick_h_> cmaloney: cool, gives us a couple of weeks to figure out wtf to do
<rick_h_> suggestions welcome
<cmaloney> Well, the Downtown Royal Oak caribou will be a Peet's on Oct 3rd
<cmaloney> There's also a Bean and Tea that may be opne at the old Madison Heights location
<mathomastech> Just got Ubuntu Touch installed on my Nexus 7. Kinda disappointed. It's still completely unusable. :(
<rick_h_> cmaloney: down off 4th street one?
<cmaloney> Yeah
<rick_h_> ugh, all the way down to 11mi
<rick_h_> I guess if they have room it'll be cool
<cmaloney> Yeah, and lord knows how packed it'll be
<cmaloney> but on the plus side, there's a Starbucks, Bean and Leaf, and a Goldfish Tea that could pick up the slack
<cmaloney> jcastro: Rush Clockwork Angels DVD pre-order is up: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00F878K4S?tag=estengercom-20
<cmaloney> I got the DVD, but there's also Blu-Ray
<cmaloney> (and for the Rush-curious, this is probably the tour to get acquainted)
<cmaloney> They're at the height of their powers.
<jcastro> oh dude
<jcastro> this is the tour I missed
<cmaloney> Yeah
<jcastro> the one with all the synth songs
<jcastro> I like this trend of a concert DVD for each tour
<cmaloney> Also listening to the Dream Theater album pre-stream
<cmaloney> and while I'm still sore that Mike Portnoy isn't in the band, this is a decent James LaBrie solo album. :)
<cmaloney> (OK, that's a bit unfair)
<cmaloney> rick_h_: I found your christmas gift: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Used-Cherry-ErgoPlus-MX5000-numeric-pad-mechanical-keyboard-/261287243023?pt=PCA_Mice_Trackballs&hash=item3cd5eeed0f&ssPageName=RSS:B:SHOP:US:101
<gamerchick02> it has free shipping!
<cmaloney> Personally I don't understand why everyone goes gaga for this keyboard. :)
<gamerchick02> i've got a question for you, cmaloney: what does one of those fancy code keyboards give me over a Razer Black Widow?
<gamerchick02> well, maybe because it splits or something?
<gamerchick02> i duno
<gamerchick02> *dunno
<cmaloney> IYeah, I think that's it
<cmaloney> Re: the other keyboards, the construction tends to be better than the Razer keyboards
<gamerchick02> ah.
<cmaloney> ie: more metal parts
<gamerchick02> maybe when the Razer dies, i'll get a Code.
<gamerchick02> but i'm not super hard on keyboards i guess.
<cmaloney> I think the razers use cherry switches
<gamerchick02> my old MS Natural is still ticking... the only thing wrong with it is that the foot on the back came off and it's off balance.
<gamerchick02> yeah they do. blue maybe? i dunno
<gamerchick02> the force is nice but not too hard to push on.
<gamerchick02> and it's nice and clacky.
<gamerchick02> i didn't get the backlit one.
<cmaloney> I seem to remember them using blue switches
<cmaloney> which if you like the noise, that's fine
<gamerchick02> i've only had one problem and sometimes it "gets confused" in both windows and linux and will type one letter forever
<gamerchick02> i have to unplug it from the back of the computer and plug it back in and then it works
<gamerchick02> happens maybe... once every 6 months maybe.
<gamerchick02> i live alone and the noise doesn't bother me. i've not had any complaints from the neighbors either.
<gamerchick02> :-P
<cmaloney> THat's the ohter advantage of some of the keyboards, better "de-bounce" preverevention
<gamerchick02> de-bounce?
<cmaloney> Yeah, any time the keyboard puts multiple letters, that's called "bounce"
<gamerchick02> BUT i do like the fact that this keyboard has a USB port on the side as well as headphone and mic jacks.
<gamerchick02> i didn't know that.
<gamerchick02> nice.
<gamerchick02> well, the Razer was on sale at microcenter for $75 (non backlit) and it's a decent model, so i guess i've nothing to complain about.
<gamerchick02> i haven't done much with their special driver under windows though.
<gamerchick02> apparently there are modes for it and i have macro keys, but i've not set them up for WoW or D3 yet. guess i don't need them...
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-09-17
<rick_h_> https://twitter.com/JKCorden/status/379901139896242176 to start your day
<rick_h_> well, N4 is all sold out, bring on the N5
<brousch> I ordered a Nexus 7
<rick_h_> cool, I almost got to sell mine
<rick_h_> but then my wife saw it on the charger and thanked me for fixing it so that she could use it on her conference trip :/
<brousch> hah
<brousch> You have a 10 don't you?
<rick_h_> yea, so I gave her teh 7 to see how she liked it. She used it once and the batter was so dead I had to go and do a recovery on it to get it to boot
<rick_h_> since she's not used it I figured I'd get rid of it while someone could still use it but now she wants it for her trip next month
<rick_h_> so she'll use it 3 days in 6mo
<brousch> Is it the original 7 or the HD 7?
<rick_h_> original
<brousch> I have found the 10s are just too big for me to use comfortably
<brousch> 1920x1200 on a 7" gives me a geek-on
<rick_h_> <3 my 10, but I use it differently than I did the 7
<rick_h_> the 7 replaced most of my phone use, the 10 replaces some laptop use
<cmaloney> Good morning
<cmaloney> Having quite the "welcome back"
<rick_h_> yea?
<rick_h_> welcome back to work?
<cmaloney> Yeah. Someone changed the database.
<cmaloney> broke shit.
<rick_h_> doh
<jrwren> wait... you can drain the batery on a nexus7 so low that you have to do a recovery on it????
<rick_h_> jrwren: evidently
<rick_h_> if it sits unplugged for 6mo it's not happy
<brousch> I had a similar issue on my HP touchpad
<brousch> It drained, then wouldn't charge, so I let it sit for like 6 months and then it charged again
<rick_h_> well after sitting on the charger overnight it would boot enough for me to trigger recovery mode. Then after running through that it would charge the rest of the way normally
<jrwren> that is so funny. yet antoher reason I like iOS
<rick_h_> to each their own :P
<brousch> At least you get something out of the over-priced proprietary chargers, eh?
<jrwren> are they over priced? I don't know. I've never seen a charger for sale for a samsung device.
<rick_h_> that was funny at a sprint. Guy needed a phone charger and 6 of us whip out microusb cables and of course he's got an iphone and we all go "oh well..."
<jrwren> that is funny.
<rick_h_> now that I've got the other BT speaker everything I have uses the microusb so I pack 4 or 5 of them for travel
<rick_h_> the old BT speaker was mini-usb, just had to be different :P
<jrwren> i don't have any microusb devices, only miniusb devices.
<rick_h_> really? ouch
<jrwren> i should clarify that I don't use any of them anymore.
<rick_h_> man, my pocket battery, phone, tablet, BT speaker, travel router, bt headphones, and bt keyboard are all micro
<brousch> RPi
<brousch> rick_h_: I got a travel battery for an RPi project, but now I have it with me all of the time
<rick_h_> brousch: yea, I love mine. I run my travel router off it and don't need to plug it into the laptop. So handy when traveling, using gps a bunch
<brousch> Can run the mk802+ from it too (with micro-mini adapter)
<jrwren> RPi is usbmini, not usbmicro IIRC
<jrwren> mk802 is usbmini
<jrwren> beagleboneblack, I'm trying to remember... might be usbmini
<jrwren> I do actually use my RPi, but it just sits stationary, so I don't plug its power
<brousch> http://www.raspberrypi.org/quick-start-guide
<jrwren> damn. i guess I do have and use a microusb device.
<rick_h_> lol
<rick_h_> it's ok, I can loan you a cable for it from my closet of 20
<jrwren> someday, I might take you up on that.
<rick_h_> O...M...G yay yay yay please please please https://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2013-September/128723.html
<brousch> Ug, yeah, getting to virtualenv on Windows is too many steps: install python, download and run ez_Setup (setuptools), easy_install pip, pip install virtualenv
<rick_h_> well virtualenv is in py3 so that's there, but pip is not. So you can't just create a virtualenv and start installing deps
<brousch> That is silly
<brousch> Doesn't virtualenv include its own pip?
<brousch> Maybe not in the bundled venv
<jrwren> virtualenv is not venv
<rick_h_> venv is stdlib version of virtualenv
<jrwren> right, very stripped, IMO to the point of being too different and not as useflu
<rick_h_> yea, this would help that immensely
<rick_h_> which is why it makes me happy to see it proposed and I hope it gets in
<jrwren> kind of weird. isn't easy_install default now?
<brousch> easy_install sucks because it doesn't have an uninstall
<rick_h_> http://insights.ubuntu.com/news/press-releases/ubuntu-on-windows-azure-gets-the-juju-magic/ ugh that IE will never go away :P
<rick_h_> jrwren: yea, but it's got such giant flaws/limitations that no one uses it in real life
<rick_h_> at least not for dev/etc.
<mathomastech> Getting ready to buy a domain name. Any suggestions on who to go with, or who to avoid?
<waf> avoid godaddy
<greg-g> gandi.net
<greg-g> go with
<waf> i'm also a fan of iwantmyname.com
<waf> i think both gandi and iwantmyname took a stand against SOPA
<rick_h_> hover.com here
<mathomastech> Awesome. Ill take a look at all 3.
<greg-g> gandi also donates to Free Software projects heavily
<greg-g> (free hosting etc)
<rick_h_> ok, this is nuts https://github.com/blog/1633-3d-file-diffs
<brousch> I use Dreamhost since I have hosting there
<jrwren> mathomastech: dnsimple is the only one
<jrwren> if you don't buy from dnsimple, then you hate
<jrwren> dnsimple completed my feature request a few hrs after I requested it.
<greg-g> I hate much
<greg-g> sorry, muchly
<jrwren> SSHFP record editor had free form input for Algorith, i requested drop down. now its dropdown with choices of RSA1 and DSS2.
<jrwren> does SSHFP not support ECDSA?
<jrwren> oh, it is, its record 3.
<jrwren> I should request that to be updated :)
<mathomastech> Ok, so next question.   mathomastech.me   or   mathomastech.com?  I was thinking .me
<mathomastech> or .io
<mathomastech> So many hard decisions.
<rick_h_> all of the above, own the brand
<brousch> Do you want people to be able to pronounce it or remember it?
<mathomastech> I suppose both. But remember is propably more important.
<greg-g> I go with .net, since I'm not a business
<brousch> Heh, I was implying that both names are too complicated if you want people to remember it or pronounce it
<brousch> math? o! mas tech!
<greg-g> yah, my name sucks, too
<mathomastech> Heh. Its not a site for a business. Just my personal, information site. So chances are people wouln't be going to it unless they were sent a link.
<waf> mathomaste.ch
<waf> domain hacks, are cool.
<waf> (to be read in the voice of The Doctor)
<jrwren> sonic.screw.driv.er
<greg-g> My buddy Nathan Kinkade has the email address: nath@nkinka.de
<waf> "mathomaste" sounds vaguely Indian, like "namaste"
<waf> greg-g: haha, nice
<mathomastech> waf: I like that. And its available.
<mathomastech> There we go. Domain purchased, github configured. Just need to wait for the url to become active.
<waf> mathomastech: oh god what'd you do, github.com is down
<mathomastech> Heh! Works for me, but that would be pretty awesome if linking my site crashed them.
<mathomastech> http://mathomaste.ch/
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-09-18
<cmaloney> I just witnessed a cat hauling ass with a ball of yarn
<cmaloney> Wow, quiet morning
<brousch> I watched lococast last night
<brousch> I'm undecided whether chris was high during the taping
<cmaloney> Heh
<cmaloney> I don't think he was high
<widox> morning
<rick_h_> Ugh, test run in IE in VM on desktop: 90s. Test run on CI using saucelabs...450s. Just a little different
<cmaloney> Just a hair
<brousch1> rick_h_: Their test is more true to reality. They have 6 browser and adware toolbars installed and running
<rick_h_> suddenly our 300s (5min...) timeout isn't all that useful
<waf> oh god, i'm stuck in an "Intro to HTML5 and jQuery" talk
<waf> send help
<rick_h_> lol
<rick_h_> cmaloney: not going to make it tonight, wife is sick :/
<rick_h_> waf: if you make it to CHC same note
<gamerchick02> waf good luck?
<gamerchick02> rick_h_ i forgot about CHC and i'm already in my pjs. oops.
<rick_h_> gamerchick02: have to remember, every wed
<gamerchick02> yeah
<gamerchick02> i need to build it into my schedule or something
<gamerchick02> i'm horrible.
<gamerchick02> anyway. anyone in here have an IOS device? i just updated my ipod to OS7 and it seems nice.
<gamerchick02> some things they've ganked from Android (and that's a good thing)
<gamerchick02> also i'm getting sick of my Samsung Reverb already and i'm thinking of going to a Nexus device on T-mobile.
<rick_h_> yea, I'm waiting for the N5 next month myself
<rick_h_> though the motox dev editions are making me tempted...must hold...out
<gamerchick02> N5? maybe i should wait. I still have this Reverb that works.
<gamerchick02> ain't snappy like i want it to be. i dunno
<rick_h_> nexus 5
<rick_h_> the nexus 4 is all sold out of the google store now and there's supposed to be a new nexus from google moddle of next month-ish
<gamerchick02> oh
<gamerchick02> well, i hear it's available at Tmobile stores
<rick_h_> which should be reasonably priced, google/nexus phone, and work on t-mobile
<gamerchick02> i'd rather wait for the N5 though
<rick_h_> yea ,the N4 is still in 3rd party stores, ran out of google's play store this week
<waf> oh, new N5 is out next month? i need to catch up on my rumors
<gamerchick02> i'm thinking of buying it outright and then saving $$ on the plan
<waf> last i heard it was a vague hand-wavy "october/november maybe"
<rick_h_> waf: yea, roughly. the N4 was Oct and it's sold out so everyone is thinking Oct
<rick_h_> but don't be floored if it's Nov
<rick_h_> since I'm up on my contract in Dec either or works...just have to hold out
<gamerchick02> i'm... contractless through Virgin Mobile so yeah
<gamerchick02> but the reception sucks
<gamerchick02> i WAS thinking of buying a Nexus and then going prepaid ATT
<gamerchick02> dunno if that will work
<rick_h_> prepaid att is $$
<gamerchick02> ATT is $$$ anyway
<gamerchick02> ATT is a ripoff
<gamerchick02> i really want Verizon but Nexus won't work with them
<gamerchick02> they want to put useless and unremovable apps on the phone. if i go Verizon i'll be getting an iphone 5c
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-09-19
<cmaloney> rick_h_: Ugh, hope she feels better
<cmaloney> Is it a cold?
<cmaloney> I think I'm the only soul here at CHC. :)
<rick_h_> :/ sorry man
<cmaloney> No worries
<cmaloney> I think I just saw Drew pass on by.
<cmaloney> Also, I'd love to know the reasoning for Best Buy to ask for your address / phone number / 4 part key when canceling their rewards program account
<cmaloney> Apparently they must get a lot of people drunk-canceling their accounts or something
<rick_h_> man, I think I might stick in my abusive relationship with verizon :/
<rick_h_> I thought going to t-mobile would be $30/mo, but I'd have to go to $60/mo plan and I pay $66 right now per device on verizon
<rick_h_> and that's before I spend the full price on a phone
<cmaloney> Yuck
<cmaloney> t-t-t-t-t-t-ting. :)
<rick_h_> heh, not going to happen. Worst of both worlds. Non GSM and no good 4g coverage
<cmaloney> cheap, GSM, 4g, not-shitty. Pick two. :)
<rick_h_> heh, yea. Well deed is done. Will transfer my upgrade to the wife, bought a developer unlocked moto x. She can pick out wtf she wants since she wants to go with a smaller device this round.
<cmaloney> Nice.
<cmaloney> Good morning
<brousch> yessir
<brousch> stormy
<brousch> nexus 7 arrived. it is smaller than i thought it would be
<rick_h_> about 7" :P
<rick_h_> ?
<rick_h_> morning and ugh
<brousch> Really I guess it's just skinnier. My other 7"er is a Nook color, which has a lot more side bezel\
<brousch> Also I've been using the HP Touchpad, which is a pretty bulky tablet, so the svelte 7 feels smaller
<brousch> perfect thumb typing size, which is what i wanted
<brousch> Who is coming to ArtPrize this year?
<cmaloney> Hadn't planned on it
<brousch> We have the giant fire breathing dragon from Detroit Makerfaire and FoolMoon from Ann Arbor
<cmaloney> Oh that's cool.
<brousch> Got to meet the dragon guys last night. apparently we can volunteer to help him and get up close and personal with the dragon
<cmaloney> I set up the Raspberry Pi yesterday to act as my heyu server.
<cmaloney> Which doesn't mean a whole lot since most of the activity happens on the X10 controller itself
<cmaloney> But am actively looking for things for it to do. :)
<cmaloney> It's the 256MB model with an Ethernet port.
<brousch> That sounds cool
<brousch> heyu
<cmaloney> Yeah, it's nice
<cmaloney> Also lets me move the X10 module away from the computer so it can be used elsewhere should I get wireless and whatnot working
<brousch> How does it signal into the power lines?
<cmaloney> The X10 CM11 interface via a serial port
<brousch> ah, i see
<brousch> I have zero X10 knowledge
<cmaloney> Yeah, it's an old old old protocol
<brousch> One home project I want to do is a rfid door unlock triggered by a ring
<cmaloney> I'm not sure about electronic door locks
<cmaloney> Seems like one of those things that could be easy to get wrong
<cmaloney> Like cheap combination locks
<cmaloney> http://security.stackexchange.com/questions/6750/using-rfid-only-on-door-lock-to-house
<brousch> Well my slider is always unlocked, so I wouldn't be totally helpless if it fails
<rick_h_> I was looking at these online the other day https://lockitron.com/preorder
<cmaloney> You live in Grand Rapids. Nobody locks anything out there.
<brousch> I see no way that an rfid lock is less secure than a key
<rick_h_> The new android phones with BT LE should enable them to get the BT unlock thing working
<brousch> I live in the suburbs
<cmaloney> rick_h_: That looks... off. :)
<brousch> That looks OK, but I really want it without the phone
<brousch> I want a touchplate or very close proximity
<rick_h_> gotcha, like the day care room kind of thing?
<brousch> eh?
<rick_h_> I've got an over sized credit card and a touch pad for getting into the day care
<rick_h_> tap my wallet on the pad to get in
<cmaloney> Yeah, like Office Building access
<brousch> Yeah, but something I can do with my hands full of groceries
<cmaloney> or what they had at my dorm room to gain access
<rick_h_> a butt pad :P
<cmaloney> brousch: I think those are called "Children"
<rick_h_> turn around, lean on the door, open sasame
<brousch> elbow maybe
<cmaloney> "Hold the door, please"
<brousch> turning the knob for me would be pretty cool
<brousch> I haven't put a lot of thought into that project though. It's not even on my list yet
<rick_h_> I like the idea of the lockitron with BT LE. I walk up to my door, it unlocks
<cmaloney> Wouldn't work for our case. We have two locks.
<brousch> Yeah, but what happens when you want to lock your door at night?
<rick_h_> the app has the ability to set open/closed
<rick_h_> over wifi/etc
<rick_h_> and you still have a turn dial on the physical lock
<brousch> Your battery runs out, you charge it, it sees tyhat within proximity, now your doors are unlocked
<rick_h_> https://lockitron.com/preorder look at the pic
<rick_h_> my doors are unlocked while I'm home anyway. If I'm home changing the batteries why would it think it should be locked?
<brousch> at night?
<rick_h_> why am I changing the batteries at night?
<brousch> charging
<brousch> your phone battery
<rick_h_> what charging?
<cmaloney> Do you normally charge your phone on your front door?
<brousch> or otherwise turning bluetooth off and on
<rick_h_> I guess if I charged it right next to the front door...which it would have been there when I locked the door...maybe?
<rick_h_> it's the LE, close proximity stuff. Like rfid
<brousch> I guess if your bedroom/charger is far enough away
<rick_h_> basically BT LE is replacing a lot of functions of rfid these days with the option for more data/etc
<brousch> hm
<cmaloney> May even replace NFC
<rick_h_> PXP, the Proximity Profile allows one device (the Proximity Monitor) to detect whether another device (the Proximity Reporter) is within a close physical range. Physical proximity can be estimated using the radio receiver's RSSI value, although this does not have absolute calibration of distances. Typically, an alarm may be sounded when the distance between the devices exceeds a set threshold.
<brousch> I hadn't heard of that
<rick_h_> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bluetooth_low_energy
<rick_h_> it's how the moto x disabling the pin code works with a BT device. Someone walks away with your phone, it locks.
<rick_h_> though that also works with wifi and normal BT devices as well so meh
<brousch> I wanted to do that a while ago. You could attach a beacon to anything (keys, wallet, glasses, etc) then get alerted when it was out of range
<rick_h_> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/13705647/finding-distance-from-rssi-value-of-bluetooth-low-energy-enable-device is kind of interesting
<rick_h_> so there's a dev working on detecting the value
<brousch> We have a guy at GRMakers whose Master is finding distance to things from rfid signal
<rick_h_> http://www.motorola.com/us/motorola-skip-moto-x/Motorola-Skip-for-Moto-X/motorola-skip-moto-x.html is the NFC thing for the moto x to do the unlock thing
<brousch> He says it's pretty easy outside, but inside signal reflection gets messy
<cmaloney> I'm glad they dropped the Wibree moniker
<brousch> of course the ultimate is voice activation throughout the house 'Jarvis, unlock the door'
<jrwren> what is a heyu server?
<widox> speaking of BT LE, you guys see this? http://www.thetileapp.com/
<rick_h_> widox: yea, seem kind of cool.
<rick_h_> need to get one of those built into my wife's phone
<rick_h_> she's always losing track of where she left it
<brousch> That is cool
<rick_h_> $60 a year for 3 though :/ look forward to mass production/price drops hopefully.
<brousch> Does Tile work on Android, Windows Phone, or Blackberry? No, not at this time.
<jrwren> subscription? ugh.
<widox> yeah, that plus no Androit
<jrwren> not to mention, hacker theft. if I want to really piss someone off, I hack their tiles and know exactly where their most precious items are.
<rick_h_> yea, android is just getting BT LE support. It'll be in kitkat and the devices are just coming out with it
<widox> not sure why coin cell batteries are so awful that I have to throw them away when the tiles die
<brousch> Well it sounds like it works by the app remembering where it saw a tile, so you'd have to be close enough to them already
<rick_h_> brousch: right, but there's the active 'hot/cold' mode as well
<rick_h_> brousch: using that proximity stuff we were talking about earlier
<jrwren> they take batteries? *ugh*
<rick_h_> well yea, but last one full year
<rick_h_> well, they're charged, last a year, meant to be replaced
<jrwren> still, it should be lower E than that.
<jrwren> how is it that those take batteries but rfid doesn't?  something I never understood.
<jrwren> is it because rfid is energized by near em field?
<rick_h_> yea, rfid I think is charged/powered by the device inquiring
<rick_h_> but rfid is just "tell me your data" while bt le can be data transfer
<rick_h_> so in this case, these things can light up a speaker if you're within range and instruct it to do something
<jrwren> https://medium.com/code-adventures/97300be548d1
<rick_h_> I find it facinating. Hated BT for so long, but BT LE seems to be the original promose finally realized
<jrwren> agreed.
<jrwren> i usually have BT off on all my devices.
<jrwren> batteries more important than BT
<brousch> I have used BT exactly 2 times. Both times to transfer photos from a dumbphone
<jrwren> i had a BT mouse for PC use, guess waht, it worked for shit.
<jrwren> i had a BT headset for PC use, guess waht, it worked for shit.
<jrwren> after that, I said I didn't like BT :)
<brousch> Wait, I lied. I used BT way back in 2002 for a BT modem while on vacation
<rick_h_> heh, my GNex and N10 got me on the BT train
<rick_h_> keyboard, headphones, two external speakers, fitbit, pebble
<jrwren> where does he get these toys?
<jrwren> bah, misquote
<jrwren> Where does he get all those wonderful toys?
<rick_h_> jrwren: what do you use for a keyboard on your ipad?
<rick_h_> or do you just type on it?
<jrwren> i did do that once, yes.
<jrwren> once, years ago :)
<rick_h_> hah
<jrwren> oh, I guess I do use a BT magic mouse most days at work.
<cmaloney> jrwren: It's just a Raspberry pi that I run heyu on
<cmaloney> heyu being a command-line X10 interface
<cmaloney> Calling it a server is a bit generous
<jrwren> ah, I see now.
<cmaloney> Just looking for applications for it.
<brousch> I drank caffeinated coffee this morning and now my pinkie is twitching
<jrwren> mmm... coffee. imma get cup 3 soon.
<rick_h_> heh, I've just moved up to a 20oz mug
<brousch> If I drink the good stuff for 3 days in a row my angina comes back
<rick_h_> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B009HVH4XO/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 is an awesome mug by the way
<brousch> I'm enjoying my Clever Drip at work.
<jrwren> angina? holy shit!
 * jrwren sings beasty boys heart attack man
<jrwren> because I know rick_h_ loves eneloop: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0058N6JUE?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER
<rick_h_> hah
<jrwren> oh, lightning deal is done. it was $36
<rick_h_> ah, bummer
<jrwren> i wonder if there are BT LE add ons for arduino or rPI projects.  could be fun to talk to phone with them.
<brousch> jrwren: About 6 years ago I was drinking a Biggby Redeye (24oz coffee+4 shots espresso) every morning. It gave me angina after a while, so I switched to decaf. Now caffeine has a large effect on me when I drink it.
<jrwren> holy shit!
<brousch> A slightly older friend said he did the same, and he had a heart attack after the angina. So he scared me straight
<rick_h_> more BT LE news http://r.bmark.us/u/e5157be7812a2b
<rick_h_> theme of hte day
<mathomastech> alias sl="ls"
<mathomastech> That's enough work accomplished for one day.
<jrwren> vladikk.com/2013/09/12/serving-flask-with-nginx-on-ubuntu/   strange that he uses a special nginx repo but doesn't say WHY
<jrwren> i'm amuzed because that blog post makes it 6X more complex than our nginx+uwsgi hosting :)
<rick_h_> well he's getting the nginx from nginx
<rick_h_> so should be better about updates/etc and nginx isn't in ubuntu main anyway so it's not promised immediate security updates/etc
<rick_h_> looks reasonable enough
<jrwren> ah! interesting. OK, great to knwo. I hadn't considered that.
<jrwren> where is the resolvconf missing manual?
<jrwren> or does everyone just hack around it?
<jrwren> found it! http://anonscm.debian.org/gitweb/?p=resolvconf/resolvconf.git;a=blob;f=README;hb=HEAD
<jrwren> that really helps!
<jrwren> YAY
<jrwren> also... templated cloud-config ftw.  cloud-init ftw
<cmaloney> Evening
<gamerchick02> howdy cmaloney
<gamerchick02> how's things?
<cmaloney> Doing OK
<cmaloney> Just playing with my raspberry Pi
<gamerchick02> oooh
<gamerchick02> i just ate dinner. not much into dinner tonight but i figured i should have something so i don't eat a bunch of cookies at 8
<cmaloney> http://www.rpgnow.com/product/17068/T1-4-Temple-of-Elemental-Evil-%281e%29?it=1
<gamerchick02> what are you making the Pi do?
<cmaloney> Free for one week
<cmaloney> Well, I'm going to do some dev on it
<cmaloney> but first I want to play with PiMAME. :)
<gamerchick02> PiMAME?
<gamerchick02> that's cool, thanks for the link
<cmaloney> np
<cmaloney> MAME for the Raspberry Pi
<gamerchick02> you're making an arcade
<gamerchick02> (i googled it for myself)
<cmaloney> Not really, just playing with Arcade ROMs
<gamerchick02> ah
<cmaloney> I'm a child of the arcade, so I have a fondness for it.
<gamerchick02> that'd be cool though... make a cabinet arcade with a Pi in there
<gamerchick02> i do like a good arcade game.
<gamerchick02> OH
<gamerchick02> there's a Pinball Expo at OU in the spring
<gamerchick02> we went as a work group thing and i wanna go again. that was so much fun!
<cmaloney> Yeah, I'm sad I missed it
<gamerchick02> :(
<gamerchick02> speaking of Mame, when i hear that, i think of the musical with Angela Lansbury. so yeah...
<gamerchick02> i've gotta switch to my other computer. i don't have an evernote client on here that can export stuff
<gamerchick02> bbiab
<smlr-hangout> SMLR is live now (Video Only) http://www.youtube.com/embed/QKKAhmZfDrg
<greg-g> it's saturday already?! hot damn!
<tony-smlr> haha thanks greg-g
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-09-20
<cmaloney> http://decafbad.net/2013/09/20/inertia/
<greg-g> a post from the future!
<cmaloney> Well, it's 9/20 here. :)
<greg-g> cmaloney: well said.
<cmaloney> Thank you.
<greg-g> the post, that is :)
<cmaloney> It's been on my mind ever since ther ewas talk about the new community verification process and the call for leadership
<cmaloney> I don't have any knowledge on how many people were nominated for the council but I have a feeling based on the call for nominations that the answer is "not much"
<greg-g> I missed the whole bit
<cmaloney> greg-g: You didn't miss much
<cmaloney> http://fridge.ubuntu.com/2013/08/28/call-for-nominations-to-the-loco-council/
<cmaloney> There was a similar post just recently
<cmaloney> OK, it's late. See you all in the morning
<jrwren> morning good
<cmaloney> Good morning
<jrwren> http://multipath-tcp.org/   i want this.
<brousch> rick_h_: Have you used HDMI out on N7?
<rick_h_> brousch: no, only on my n10
<brousch> Is it the same slimport thing?
<rick_h_> don't know what slimport is. It's a micro hdmi connection cable?
<brousch> N7 has this combined usb-video out thing called slimport
<brousch> needs a dongle for hdmi
<brousch> Ah, N4 has the same thing
<greg-g> cmaloney: I... don't know how I feel about this marketing: https://twitter.com/tingFTW/status/381125552381235200
<cmaloney> greg-g: Hm
<cmaloney> greg-g: On the one hand, I think it's a "Good thing"
<cmaloney> but I can see it getting out of hand really, really quickly
<cmaloney> Few things are as incentivised as poor college students with copious free time
<cmaloney> btw: I have ample evidence that peering out the window every 5-10 minutes does not bring the UPS guy to the door any faster
<cmaloney> TIng got the Moto X
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-09-21
<waf> whoa, nice
<cmaloney> Happy afternoon
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-09-22
<cmaloney> Good morning
<brousch> I have 7ft tall weeds in my back yard. Time to mow
<noogenesis> trying to decide, should i replace my old wirelessg wap with an ac card in the firewall or buy a whole router and put it in wap mode
<jrwren> rick_h_: https://annarbor.craigslist.org/zip/4080809815.html
<jrwren> The city cut down a 50 year old black walnut tree today.
<cmaloney> Good Afternoon
<cmaloney> derev: Depends on how much AC cards are
<cmaloney> I don't know how much 802.11ac routers are currently, but I think they're sub $200?
<cmaloney> Though the cards look pretty inexpensive
<cmaloney> At least the USB dongles
<cmaloney> But they're all USB3.0
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-09-15
<rick_h_> oh boy, grant me the willpower to not be a rude $@!$# to someone
<cmaloney> rick_h_: If he doesn't grant you the willpower can he grant us the chat logs?
<rick_h_> cmaloney: ok, I need a conscious, I'm tired and cranky http://paste.ubuntu.com/8347329/
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/lpx0PO - Ubuntu Pastebin
<rick_h_> cmaloney: tell me what part I should not be sending
<cmaloney> The second sentence on lines 26-27
<rick_h_> but but ... ok
<rick_h_> gone
 * rick_h_ grumbles about it
<cmaloney> I'd reword 34: Thank you for continuing to use Bookie. I'd ask you to please continue to use the service as I've poured a lot of time and energy (for free) into a tool that I hope others will find useful.
<rick_h_> but it's less passive agressive that way
<cmaloney> 13: Twitter
<rick_h_> yea, fixed that one thanks
<cmaloney> Direct is best. :)
<cmaloney> It's a little less bitchy that way.
<rick_h_> but but that's the fun part
<cmaloney> But also gives him an exit clause if he'd like to piss off
<rick_h_> ok, updated, but also adding a link to http://alternativeto.net/software/bookie-bookmarks/
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/6xhEEF - Bookie Alternatives and Similar Software - AlternativeTo.net
<cmaloney> That's appropriate.
<rick_h_> anything else before I hit send?
<cmaloney> Not sure the "I don't know who 'we' is" is addressing. You may want to word it "Bookie is currently myself and whatever volunteers contribute to the project".
<rick_h_> he says "I would like to know why nobody notified us'
<rick_h_> I'll s/we/us
<cmaloney> And you're answering it as such.
<rick_h_> screw it, hit send
<cmaloney> Yeah, I can understand why that pissed you off.
<cmaloney> heh
<rick_h_> I just spent nearly $1k this past week on new server stuff...yea call me bitchy
<cmaloney> yeah, that's completely understandable
<rick_h_> ty sir, I appreciate the filter
<cmaloney> Not sure how you could make it any more plain what was going on.
<cmaloney> np. Glad I could help out. :)
<rick_h_> on the plus side, fulltext index is fully caught up and search should be kick ass now.
<_stink_> i thought it was perfect as pasted :)
<rick_h_> _stink_: ty :)
<rick_h_> I couldn't find the button for 'reach through the internet and throttle'
<widox> rick_h_: hah. I just ran into that broken extension situation
<rick_h_> widox: sorry, I didn't test it but assumed the url redirects would 'just work'
<rick_h_> and if it doesn't work, figured the big url redirect and such would jump out, or twitter, or irc.
<widox> well, it breaks because of the SSL cert
<rick_h_> I should have hit up the mailing list I guess
<cmaloney> _stink_: But then I couldn't use my superpower of peacemaking
<rick_h_> widox: it shoudl only do that if you type in http://bmark.us
<rick_h_> and I should fix that by having the http go back to https://bmark.us and then forward to https://bookie.io
<widox> dunno. that's what the debug console said
<rick_h_> oh well sucky
 * rick_h_ launches FF
<widox> I assume Chrome does the same...?
<rick_h_> I think I changed it, I've not updated firefox to checking it out
<rick_h_> well the damn thing jumps out with a yellow warning at least
<rick_h_> it's not like it's hidden
 * rick_h_ can't recall how to debug an installed extension crummy
<_stink_> cmaloney: i am very glad you have that skill
<widox> rick_h_: yep
<rick_h_> anyway, it's not the fact that he filed a 'bug report' that made me cranky
<_stink_> i'll call you when i'm about to launch the nukes
<rick_h_> it's the lack of a bug report and more of a the 'angry entitled freeloader personal email'
<rick_h_> expecially when everythign else is so kick ass. The new hardware and such is making bookie fly
<rick_h_> (well the fixed queries helped too)
<widox> sure, understandable
<rick_h_> anyway, all good. It happens in OSS world. I've moved on
<rick_h_> wheeeee
 * rick_h_ goes off to bed night all
<cmaloney> Laterness. :)
<cmaloney> OK, this confirms it
<cmaloney> I've said that the addresses in India look like driving directions
<cmaloney> I shit thee not: part of the address for one of the students is "Mile Davis' "Tutu" is a testament on how certain electronic instruments haven't aged well.
<cmaloney> fuck, bad c/p
<cmaloney> I shit thee not: part of the address for one of the students is "Opp. Pizza-Hut"
<_stink_> haha
<cmaloney> I'm fully expecting most, if not all of these to come back as undeliverable.
<wolfger> morning
<rick_h_> morning
<brousch_> cmaloney: One of the Kivy mentors is in India. I can ask him stuff if you need me to
<wolfger> How was everybody's weekend, other than "too short"? (that's my answer...)
<rick_h_> yea, camping weekend so party
<brousch_> heh, my RSS feed is full of old bookie results
<rick_h_> yea, I think the server/feed change caused it to blow up once
<rick_h_> brousch_: it seems fine after that initial blow up though hopefully
<brousch_> Ug, tired
<wolfger> I'm jealous. This is excellent camping weather
<brousch_> Was up until 1AM working on controlling an Arduino with Python
<rick_h_> lol
<rick_h_> you need to spend more time at home away from the hackerspace
<rick_h_> it's affecting your sleep hah
<brousch_> It was at home!
<wolfger> Something wrong with controlling Arduino natively? :-P
<brousch_> wolfger: There are advantages even aside from the superior language
<wolfger> I spent Saturday afternoon/evening going to a Tigers game with work folks. Sunday I slept a bit and hit the driving range, then wasted the rest of my day watching the godawful Lions
<brousch_> Your controller is a real computer (or RPi) and has all of the Python ecosystem, Internet, etc available without shields
<brousch_> All of Linux (or even Windows) becomes available
<wolfger> Hmm. Learned something new today: http://programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/198481/why-cant-an-xml-comment-contain-two-hyphens
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/YVQvdm - sgml - Why can't an xml comment contain two hyphens - Programmers Stack Exchange
<wolfger> brousch_: so you're using Arduino basically as a real-world I/O interface to your lap/desktop?
<brousch_> Right
<brousch_> or Rpi
<brousch_> Lets you make interfaces with lights and physical buttons
<wolfger> Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute? (that's what Google gives me)
<wolfger> what's an Rpi?
<brousch_> Raspberry Pi
<wolfger> ah
<wolfger> I guess I'm not that familiar with Raspberry Pi. I would not have thought hooking it to an Arduino would be beneficial at all. I thought it was more of an Arduino replacement.
<brousch_> Do you live in a cave?
<wolfger> more or less
<brousch_> It's a full Linux (Debian based) computer running on ARM
<wolfger> Around about the time I bought an Arduino, everybody quit talking about Arduino and started talking about RPi. I just made an assumption and ignored it because I wasn't about to switch away from the toy I just bought.
<brousch_> They have different focuses
<wolfger> So it was just a conversational replacement and not a technical replacement... :-D
<brousch_> Well an RPi can do a lot of what Arduino does, but with more power usage and less flexibility
<brousch_> Arduinos now can be the size of your thumbnail
<brousch_> https://www.pjrc.com/teensy/teensy31.html
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/tdge4R - Teensy 3.1: New Features
<cmaloney> brousch_: iirc there's a Python native thingie for Arduino. Name is escaping me at the moment
<brousch_> Yes. That's what I am using
<brousch_> pyfirmata is the low level module, and BreakfastSerial is a higher level module
<brousch_> pyfirmata's documentation is pretty much nonexistent
<cmaloney> There was something else that I saw.
<cmaloney> Gah, all I'm thinking of is numpy but that's completely off-base.
<cmaloney> nanpy?
<wolfger> http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2013-12/06/micro-python
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/PpDWCO - Micro Python: more powerful than Arduino, simpler than the Raspberry Pi (Wired UK)
<brousch_> wolfger: Yeah, but it's an incomplete Python and a special board
<jrwren_> what bus?
<cmaloney> Hm, I never realized nanpy needed special firmware. Never mind.
<brousch_> That seems odd. Maybe they mean a sketch
<cmaloney> Nah, there's something they're doing with it perhaps to make it more friendly with Python?
<cmaloney> Not sure, but I'm not terribly interested in reflashing an Arduino. :)
<brousch_> Yeah, it's just an Arduino sketch
<rick_h_> cmaloney: _stink_ widox got a nice contrite apology email today so good stuff
<cmaloney> rick_h_: Awesome. :)
<_stink_> rick_h_: phew, faith restored.
<brousch_> hm, getting all sorts of weird retweets on my meeting announcement
<brousch_> My klout will soar!
<wolfger> woot
<widox> rick_h_: good deal
<mrgoodcat> rick_h_: return_fragment=False is what i ended up needing
<rick_h_> mrgoodcat: cool
<rick_h_> mrgoodcat: ok I wasn't sure if you were using it from the cli or what
<rick_h_> mrgoodcat: what are you using breadability for?
<mrgoodcat> lol another bookiebot feature
<mrgoodcat> go figure right?
<rick_h_> ah, gotcha
<mrgoodcat> actually it's not bookiebot for now
<mrgoodcat> but i'm sure it will end up being
<mrgoodcat> someone asked me to add a feature to the bot i maintain for the wmu computer club
<rick_h_> what's the feature?
 * rick_h_ wonders if r.bmark.us and it's api would do it for you
<mrgoodcat> probably would
<mrgoodcat> hang on real quick
<mrgoodcat> .reload
<bookiebot> reloaded 29 plugins in 0.011099 seconds
<mrgoodcat> .read https://mojang.com/2014/09/yes-were-being-bought-by-microsoft/
<bookiebot> http://read.dyladan.me/qHh
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/5PSLcF - Yes, weâre being bought by Microsoft
<mrgoodcat> that's the feature in a nutshell
<rick_h_> yea, so you can use the api on r.bmark.us to create a readable version and a shortlink off of it
<cmaloney> Morning again
<mrgoodcat> its a little different than that because they want it integrated into the club website and admin-only access and whatnot
<rick_h_> http://r.bmark.us/u/fdbf7b1ef07f2e
<rick_h_> gotcha, ok. well fyi that's out there. It's a small python app you can run on heroku on the free tier
<rick_h_> (where r.bmark.us runs)
<mrgoodcat> woah... something is funky with the rendering
<rick_h_> and you can just post the url https://github.com/bookieio/bookie_parser
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/ZirndA - bookieio/bookie_parser Â· GitHub
<mrgoodcat> oh awesome
<mrgoodcat> i might do it that way
<mrgoodcat> is the rendering odd for you on that page?
<rick_h_> https://github.com/bookieio/bookie_parser/blob/master/bookie_parser/__init__.py#L24
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/sYjBuu - bookie_parser/__init__.py at master Â· bookieio/bookie_parser Â· GitHub
<mrgoodcat> odd/slow
<rick_h_> no, working here
<mrgoodcat> must be my font renderer or something
<mrgoodcat> i'm using arch
<mrgoodcat> which means i have to set all that shit up
<rick_h_> lol
<mrgoodcat> is there r.bmark.us api docs?
<mrgoodcat> or do i just post the url to r.bmark.us
<rick_h_> mrgoodcat: I linked it in that __init_-
<rick_h_> mrgoodcat: not great docs no, it's small/tiny
<mrgoodcat> ok
<rick_h_> two endpoints really
<mrgoodcat> yea i'm looking at the init now
<rick_h_> POST to it or GET the hash
<rick_h_> line 24
<mrgoodcat> POST to /api/v1/parse with a json body {url:"http://awesomesite.com"} and thats it?
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/ml73yK - awesomesite.com
<rick_h_> mrgoodcat: think so
<rick_h_> mrgoodcat: been a bit since I tinkered with it
<mrgoodcat> just so you know the json response returns the readable content twice
<rick_h_> mrgoodcat: yea, one is some raw data or something
<rick_h_> there was a reason for it
<rick_h_> mrgoodcat: maybe one is the original content?
<mrgoodcat> nope, exactly the same http://hastebin.com/igigawoviw.json
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/OO9ZLR - hastebin
<mrgoodcat> readable and data[readable]
<rick_h_> yea, don't recall why it did that I guess
<mrgoodcat> lol
<mrgoodcat> ok
<rick_h_> maybe some api version history or something
<mrgoodcat> just wanted to make sure you're aware
<rick_h_> yea, the r.bmark.us needs some love
<rick_h_> I had the goal of turning it into a full microservice and having bookie run all the links through it vs doing it on its own
<rick_h_> I use it once in a while via the bookmarklet so that I can clean up hard to read articles
<mrgoodcat> thats why we were using breadability more or less
<rick_h_> yea
<rick_h_> your use seemed to match up mine there
<rick_h_> which is why I brought it up
<mrgoodcat> rick_h_: when did bmark.us become bookie.io?
<rick_h_> mrgoodcat: last week
<mrgoodcat> like 4 days ago?
<cmaloney> Yeah
<rick_h_> mrgoodcat: something like that yes
<cmaloney> greg-g: Picked up more Kyuss this weekend as well
<cmaloney> Blues for the Red Sun and Welcome to Sky Valley
<mrgoodcat> i'm trying to POST to bookie.io and getting SSL errors
<cmaloney> Using Curl?
<mrgoodcat> no
<mrgoodcat> python requests
<mrgoodcat> i turned off ssl verification and it started working
<rick_h_> mrgoodcat: make sure it's https
<mrgoodcat> it's all public anyways so i don't really care if I get MITM'd
<mrgoodcat> it is
<cmaloney> I had to turn off cert checking for my backup script using curl
<mrgoodcat> api = "https://bookie.io/api/v1/bookiebot/bmark?api_key=%s" % apikey
<cmaloney> (which I should have mentioned prior)
<rick_h_> hmm, sucky
<rick_h_> chrome says the cert is all good
<mrgoodcat> cmaloney: your backup script hits bookie?
<rick_h_> maybe something is up, will try to look
<cmaloney> Yeah, it backs up the bookmarks on a nightly basis
<mrgoodcat> oh got it
<rick_h_> cmaloney: is that the json api or the htm one?
<cmaloney> https://bookie.io/craig/export
<rick_h_> cmaloney: ok cool
<rick_h_> the api one (json) will get big soon now that we can join with readable content I'm going to enable dumping of the content with that api call
<cmaloney> Does this export private bookmarks as well? I'm not authenticating to it.
<rick_h_> it won't if you don't authenticate
<rick_h_> the api will
<rick_h_> and I think the export url you mention *should* if you add api auth to the url
<cmaloney> Um, it will. :)
<cmaloney> I'm not authenticating
<rick_h_> bah
 * rick_h_ knew we tested this as I made a stink about it
<rick_h_> ok
<cmaloney> .np squeekyhoho
<bookiebot> squeekyhoho's current track - Apothecaries' Weight by Kyuss on Mercurious Pools
<cmaloney> I really hate last.fm's album matching
<mrgoodcat> why? is that wrong?
<cmaloney> .np squeekyhoho
<bookiebot> squeekyhoho's current track - Freedom Run by Kyuss on Mercurious Pools
<cmaloney> The album is Blues for the Red Sun
<cmaloney> Which I don't think you can do anything about at the bot level
<mrgoodcat> nope
<mrgoodcat> its all returned by the api
<cmaloney> Yeah
<cmaloney> Hence my initial complaint at last.fm. ;)
<mrgoodcat> .read http://finance.yahoo.com/news/comcast-threatening-cut-off-customers-092817979.html
<bookiebot> http://r.bmark.us/u/6795709eee7511
<mrgoodcat> now it uses bookie
<cmaloney> Nice.
<mrgoodcat> rick_h_: is r.bmark.us going to be r.bookie.io too?
<rick_h_> mrgoodcat: yes, eventually
<rick_h_> mrgoodcat: and then it'll be super fast and not on heroku's free tier
<cmaloney> nice. :)
<rick_h_> but only so much time for oss hobbies :/
<rick_h_> and I'll have more then 8mb of redis memory for caching old parsed urls
<mrgoodcat> if nothing else, it at least gives me some nice readable default css :)
<rick_h_> :)
<cmaloney> it should be noted that Mercurious Pools is apparently a bootleg recording.
<mrgoodcat> ok so r.bmark.us is definitely rendering funny for me
<mrgoodcat> nobody else is seeing this?
<mrgoodcat> scroll quickly on the article
<mrgoodcat> the render is super slow
<cmaloney> I'm seeing that as well
<cmaloney> Chrome, right?
<mrgoodcat> yerp
<rick_h_> hmm, I've got some fancy background image on there repeating
<rick_h_> maybe some computers don't like it
<cmaloney> Almost like it's rendering an image
<_stink_> hmm, i'm not seenig anything funny
<cmaloney> Firefox?
<_stink_> chromium on 14.04
<mrgoodcat> woah. that tab has a huge memory load too
<mrgoodcat> well the memory usage went down, not sure what happened there, but that tab is taking huge CPU to scroll
<mrgoodcat> by huge i mean ~40% of one core
<wolfger> I don't know. I'm not seeing anything described. No fancy background, no slow rendering.
<mrgoodcat> i don't see a fancy background
<mrgoodcat> just slow render
<mrgoodcat> i'm on a slow-ish computer though
<greg-g> cmaloney: sweet :) which?
<mrgoodcat> no issues in firefox
<mrgoodcat> wolfger: what browser/version?
<mrgoodcat> i'm using chrome Version 37.0.2062.120 (64-bit)
<greg-g> cmaloney: oh, you said, cool!
<greg-g> cmaloney: welcome to sky valley was my first Kyuss album
<cmaloney> greg-g: yeah, picked up all of the major Kyuss releases at UHF
<wolfger> mrgoodcat: Google Chrome Version 37.0.2062.103 m
<mrgoodcat> mobile?
<wolfger> laptop
<mrgoodcat> wondering what the m at the end is
<wolfger> I'm pretty sure I didn't select a specifically mobile version of Chrome, but I guess I don't recall.
<wolfger> also running ABP extension, as well as a few others
<wolfger> just updated to 120 m
<mrgoodcat> its a css issue
<mrgoodcat> disabling javascript didn't help
<mrgoodcat> disabling css did
<cmaloney> .np squeekyhoho
<bookiebot> squeekyhoho's current track - The Melody (On The Deuce By 44) by Herbie Hancock on Dis Is Da Drum
<cmaloney> <- word
<brousch_> Any Arrested Development fans? https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/15833937-the-man-inside-me
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/3GdkKs - The Man Inside Me by Tobias FÃ¼nke â Reviews, Discussion, Bookclubs, Lists
<cmaloney> I've watched and been amused by the show
<rick_h_> I watched and was not amused
<rick_h_> but my wife loved the thing
<cmaloney> It's kind of like British Comedy.
<brousch_> I did not watch it on TV, but have watched the whole series 2x on Netflix
<cmaloney> they'll pull references from previous shows
<cmaloney> and won't explain things if you don't get it
<brousch_> It makes perfect sense if you don't miss any episodes!
<cmaloney> Totally
<cmaloney> Which is why it failed in the US
<cmaloney> on air
<cmaloney> because Fox can't seem to not fuck with a show.
<cmaloney> Unless it's The Simpsons
<cmaloney> note: working off of 10 year old information here.
<brousch_> cmaloney: Had a good Go battle with a random. 19x19 is interesting. On 9x9 you get 1 maybe 2 good fights and the game is over, but on 19x19 there are many more
<cmaloney> Yeah, I have yet to play a full 19x19 game
<cmaloney> 9x9 is pretty cramped. good for learning but a completely different game
<cmaloney> 13x13 is interesting
<cmaloney> Also: your capturing game is starting to piss me off. :)
<mrgoodcat> rick_h_: when hacking on bookie_parser, should i change styles.css or styles.scss?
<rick_h_> mrgoodcat: the scss, it's sass and compiles to the css
<mrgoodcat> cool
<mrgoodcat> ok
<brousch_> cmaloney: hah!
<brousch_> Fighting the randoms is helping
<cmaloney> I can see that
<cmaloney> I think you're going to win on prisoners alone
<mrgoodcat> rick_h_: line 63 of styles.scss is the line causing the rendering issues
<rick_h_> mrgoodcat: k
<mrgoodcat> oddly it doesn't seem to do anything
<mrgoodcat> on chrome anyways
<mrgoodcat> i can't see any difference
<mrgoodcat> the makefile takes a while on this project...
<mrgoodcat> can't get the makefile to work on my machine for some reason (possibly because archlinux) so i can't test, but i'm 100% sure that line is the issue
<mrgoodcat> seems to be working on ubuntu vps
<mrgoodcat> slowly
<mrgoodcat> gah failed
<cmaloney> .np squeekyhoho
<bookiebot> squeekyhoho's current track - Adventure by Disasterpeace on Fez
<mrgoodcat> cmaloney brousch_ i played a 13x13 game with a random. got my ass kicked
<mrgoodcat> :/
<mrgoodcat> every time i thought maybe i was salvaging the game... NOPE CRUSHED
<brousch_> I have not beaten a random yet
<brousch_> mrgoodcat: Are you on DGS?
<mrgoodcat> not even sure what that is
<mrgoodcat> i'm playing on my android
<mrgoodcat> called goonline or something like that
<brousch_> http://www.dragongoserver.net/
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/M2HG - DGS - Dragon Go Server
<brousch_> Lets you play in the browser or via an Android app
<mrgoodcat> hmm cool
<mrgoodcat> not sure i have the emotional capacity to play regularly online
<mrgoodcat> get killed over and over and over
<mrgoodcat> feel sad
<mrgoodcat> lol
<mrgoodcat> the 9x9 computer on my android sucks. i have fun beating it
<brousch_> It's actually hard to find an active game
<brousch_> Mostly slackjaws like cmaloney who take 1 turn/day
<mrgoodcat> that's what eventually killed words with friends for me
<mrgoodcat> couldn't wait for people
<mrgoodcat> and everybody either sucks or cheats at WwF
<mrgoodcat> talented scrabble players are all 85 and don't have smart phones
<mrgoodcat> i prefer to play my grandfather in person
<brousch_> The cheating killed it for me too
<cmaloney> mrgoodcat: I like Dragon Go Server because you are both playing an open game that others can critique
<cmaloney> so there's low cheating ability.
<mrgoodcat> thats cool
<mrgoodcat> well cheating is difficult in go i'd imagine
<mrgoodcat> cheating in scrabble is easy peasy
<cmaloney> Only thing I can think of is scoring
<brousch_> You could cheat by feeding the game to a good computer AI
<mrgoodcat> it's not automatically calculated scoring?
<cmaloney> but iirc you both have to agree on dead stones and such
<cmaloney> brousch_: Of course
<mrgoodcat> "good computer AI" isn't a thing in Go is it?
<cmaloney> They're still working on it
<mrgoodcat> i thought it was a huge deal when a super advanced AI beat even a mediocre player
<cmaloney> GNUgo plays a game that can kick the ass of most beginners but can be easily sniffed out by advanced players
<cmaloney> Yeah, they're not up to that level yet.
<cmaloney> I'm craigm on Dragon Go Server
<cmaloney> Also playing Star Realms like crazy
<cmaloney> that's a deck-building game
<cmaloney> one of the few games in my collection that JoDee will not only play online but will also ask to play in person.
<cmaloney> She's addicted to that game.
<mrgoodcat> lol
<mrgoodcat> my $gf plays board games in person and no games online
<cmaloney> I have no less than 6 games running at the moment
<cmaloney> Which games?
<mrgoodcat> catan mostly when we can get 2 others to play
<mrgoodcat> we play double solitaire a lot
<cmaloney> Yeah, that's a tough one for two players.
<mrgoodcat> checkers
<mrgoodcat> she sucks at chess but we play anyways
<mrgoodcat> tried to get her to start Go. couldn't get her into it
<cmaloney> Tried Go with JoDee as well. She's not into abstract games much
<mrgoodcat> we have fun with chess
<cmaloney> I like them though, even though I suck at them
<mrgoodcat> even though i kick kim's ass
<mrgoodcat> i suck at chess too
<cmaloney> The GIPF project is really interesting to me
<mrgoodcat> just not as much as kim
<cmaloney> yeah, we don't play chess. I played chess against some good folks and learned a few tricks
<mrgoodcat> never even heard of GIPF
<cmaloney> but it's not interesting to me.
<cmaloney> http://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/527/gipf
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/7HHZIs - GIPF | Board Game | BoardGameGeek
<cmaloney> It's a set of 6-7 games that are all abstract
<mrgoodcat> hmm
<cmaloney> The Strong Recommendations games section are all of the games in the project
<cmaloney> ZERTZ and DVONN are highly recommended
<cmaloney> Just got PUNCT
<mrgoodcat> wow crazy names
<cmaloney> haven't convinced JoDee to play YINSH and TAMSK yet.
<cmaloney> and she hated GIPF
<cmaloney> TAMSK is the hardest one to find because it's no longer considered part of the project
<cmaloney> http://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/108/tamsk
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/wTv3SB - TAMSK | Board Game | BoardGameGeek
<mrgoodcat> PUNCT looks cool
<cmaloney> Yeah, I'm looking forward to playing that one
<cmaloney> they're really art pieces and interesting designs
<cmaloney> But they're all two-player games.
<cmaloney> http://boardgamegeek.com/wiki/page/project_GIPF
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/N49EdQ - project GIPF | Wiki | BoardGameGeek
<cmaloney> Here's a better page on how they all interlink
<cmaloney> But yeah, I'm always looking for good 2-player board games.
<mrgoodcat> so all 6 games are actually one game
<mrgoodcat> ?
<cmaloney> They're 6-7 separate games
<cmaloney> but there's expansions where you can take the results of one of the other games and affect another game
<mrgoodcat> ah
<mrgoodcat> got it
<mrgoodcat> http://rampantgames.com/blog/?p=7745
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/1OYDYY - Black Triangles
<mrgoodcat> i'm going to steal the term black triangle from now on
<mrgoodcat> i like it
<mrgoodcat> hmmmm
<mrgoodcat> .read http://rampantgames.com/blog/?p=7745
<bookiebot> http://r.bmark.us/u/d84ecd19fa19c0
<greg-g> ohhh, it reads it for me?!
<mrgoodcat> now why does bookie.io not show any content for that?
<mrgoodcat> https://bookie.io/bmark/readable/d84ecd19fa19c0
<mrgoodcat> greg-g: yes
<mrgoodcat> i was thinking about making it a sort of read-it-later service backed by bookie.io
<mrgoodcat> rick_h_: why would bookie.io show "no parsed content" on a site that breadability can parse just fine?
<rick_h_> mrgoodcat: otp atm not sure
<mrgoodcat> kk
<mrgoodcat> going into class, i'll pick your brain later
<rick_h_> mrgoodcat: breadability version diff?
<mrgoodcat> read command uses r.bmark.us
<greg-g> does r.bmark.us work
<mrgoodcat> so i'd figure bookie.io would be the same
<mrgoodcat> greg-g: yes. .read uses it
<mrgoodcat> time for class
<mrgoodcat> talk to you all later
<mrgoodcat> cmaloney: thanks for the game recommends. just texted the list to my $gf with the caption "*cough* ahem *cough* christmas"
<mrgoodcat> we'll see what happens
<cmaloney> mrgoodcat: LMK what sorts of games you are interested in. I have a few that I've looked into.
<cmaloney> http://boardgamegeek.com/collection/user/craigm
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/wCrGpN - craigm | User Collection | BoardGameGeek
<cmaloney> yes, I am insane. :)
<mrgoodcat> aaaand i'm back
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-09-16
<mrgoodcat> morning
<cmaloney> morning
<rick_h_> dammit, I'm just going to stop talking today. I swear someone wants to jump out and disagree with everything I say today.
<rick_h_> and morning
<rick_h_> and bah humbug
 * rick_h_ is sick of stupid people 
<cmaloney> no they're not. :)
<cmaloney> and yes, I am messing with you. :)
<cmaloney> work-related foo?
<rick_h_> inside work, outside of work
<rick_h_> everywhere
<cmaloney> ugh
<jrwren_> rick_h_: :)   <3 U
<cmaloney> Anything we can do to help?
<jrwren_> rick_h_: want to have a vent session?
<rick_h_> no, not unless you're taking up assassination as a hobby
<rick_h_> wtf, I should have know having an opinion would get me into trouble.
<rick_h_> "+Rick Harding You've determined that the Moto X is better than an unannounced phone?"
<rick_h_> bah! who writes that and doesn't go "hehehehe I'm going to be trollish today damn straight"
<jrwren_> rick_h_: some of us are natural trolls, even though we don't mean to be.
<cmaloney> Someone who apparently has a lot invested in said unannounced phone?
<rick_h_> so OF COURSE I find the need to reply
<jrwren_> ifon7!
<rick_h_> which just draws out 50 other trolls from their hidey-holes
<cmaloney> Ah, the Correctus Maximus variant of the troll
<cmaloney> the common troll
<rick_h_> and of course I was a moron and had to go with the "everyone understands an analogy"
<rick_h_> which just brings out the analogy police
<cmaloney> Oh fuck
<cmaloney> The Automobilus Computerus
<cmaloney> Bah, where is my latin. Automobilis Computerus. ;)
<rick_h_> lol
<rick_h_> anyway, hope everyone else is having a wonderful tues.
<cmaloney> rick_h_: So which phone were you comparing to the MotoX?
<cmaloney> So far so good
<cmaloney> Chasing strange errors.
<rick_h_> and jrwren_, let the record show I'm can be a merciful lead and not using a giant stick to say 'jfdi' no matter how much I want to :)
<rick_h_> cmaloney: one of the guys from work is asking about motox (new one) vs waiting for nexus 6
<jrwren_> rick_h_: you are a good leader.
<rick_h_> I said why I loved my motox
<rick_h_> jrwren_: uros convinced me not to, so make him the nice and good one
<rick_h_> cmaloney: which makes me a bad guy to all the 'nexus or die!' purists
<jrwren_> rick_h_: also, that is not a good kind of leadership, its harder, but MUCH more effective to figure out a way to convince people rather than telling them.
<rick_h_> jrwren_: +1
<rick_h_> jrwren_: but some people have stone blocks for heads that can only be split with much force
<jrwren_> I watched a manager continually errode any confidence his team had in him by doing that too much.
<jrwren_> rick_h_: I totally agree. its HARD.
<rick_h_> all good, my coffee intake is complete, the day can only go up from here
<jrwren_> rick_h_: especially since we are techie nerd types too and so we tend to argue the same ways, which are rarely effective in actually changing peoples minds.
<rick_h_> well, it's tough when we think different things because we internally just value different ideas
<rick_h_> so you have to change their values to get an agreement vs just convincing them of something
<jrwren_> rick_h_: sometimes spelling out those values can help and specifically stating what you do not value on a current point can help.
<cmaloney> Thing is you've proven that the MotoX meets your needs
<rick_h_> cmaloney: yes, which is all I'm saying, and that a nexus 5 does not and I do not believe the nexus 6 will as well.
<rick_h_> but it's all realtive to what fits the owner's needs
<cmaloney> I don't see that as being a problem.
<jrwren_> haha.. this is about android stuffs? well forget it, who wants to use that junk :)
<rick_h_> jrwren_: :P I know, it won't even work with the unreleased apple watch. i mean, how quaint. Might as well be a leap pad
<jrwren_> wait... was that someones arguments?
<cmaloney> jrwren_: I'm just tickled pink that Microsoft spent $400 mil to have the NFL use the Surface and the announcers call them "iPads"
<rick_h_> jrwren_: no, that's me being a cranky snark :)
<jrwren_> rick_h_: ah! awesome!
<rick_h_> ok, question, my brain isn't going yet this morning
<rick_h_> I've got a box that has a bridged network, so it's on my local network on one end, and on a different netowrk on the other
<rick_h_> I want to, from another machine on my local network, tunnel through that magic box (let's just call it orange) so I can load up web pages on that internal network
<rick_h_> it's not a real ssh tunnel, since the endpoint isn't on the gateway box, but something where I reach through it
<jrwren_> rick_h_: bridged network means they are on the same L2 network, usually the same L3, since DHCP will assign addresses on that L2.
<jrwren_> rick_h_: ssh -L8080:ipbehindtheorange:80 orangebox
<dzho> rick_h_: yeah, when you say bridged, is it a dual-homed box, with one interface bridged to the different network on one interface?
<jrwren_> rick_h_: then you can curl localhost:8080 and it goes to ipbehindtheorange:80
<rick_h_> dzho: jrwren_ ah true
 * dzho defers to jrwren_ on this.  Even after reading the ssh man page careful on port forwarding I inevitably get it wrong the first time.
<cmaloney> Man I love tmux
<cmaloney> Just had to throw that out there. :)
<jrwren_> what specifically?
<dzho> cmaloney: yes, what about it in particular inspires you to wax lyrical about it today?
<dzho> oddly enough I was inspired to check the state of my tmux'ing on various of my commonly-used systems by what I thought was a poor answer to a question in #tmux
<dzho> cmaloney: also, which keybindings, vi or emacs?
<cmaloney> dzho: I used my IRC script to reconnect to a session that was already open
<cmaloney> dzho: I haven't played with the tmux bindings
<dzho> so, emacs?
<cmaloney> I think so
<cmaloney> How do I check?
 * dzho finds emacs key bindings in non-emacs things funny, since they represent halting steps towards Just Do Everything In Emacs.
<dzho> cmaloney: I think emacs is the default.  it is on my ubuntu systems at least.
<dzho> what I specifically have in mind today is what keys you use to copypasta amongst tmux windows
<dzho> (if, in fact, you do)
<dzho> or tmux panes or whatever
 * dzho is still most hung up on the added complexity of panes+windows in tmux vs just windows in screen
<cmaloney> I have mine set to vi mode.
<cmaloney> I<3 windows in tmux
<cmaloney> The only thing I wish I had was ^B-[hjkl] for moving to different windows
<cmaloney> Hah, found one. :)
<mrgoodcat> screen does panes and windows i thought
<cmaloney> I think it does, but tmux is better about imho
<jrwren_> dzho: how to vi keybindings work in tmux?
<dzho> jrwren_: I'm a bad one to ask--I only know its an option from the man page.  I'm not one to mess with defaults if I can help it.
<dzho> mrgoodcat: screen has split screens, but I don't think there's a concept of panes as such.
<jrwren_> dzho: same here. I pretty much use defaults everywhere.
<dzho> yeah, a search on "pane" in the screen man page turns up zilch
<jrwren_> what about split?
<mrgoodcat> dzho: ah yea i seem to remember that
<cmaloney> Afternoon and all that
<wolfger> jazz. You forgot the word jazz. :-)
<greg-g> gah, now that song (the mulan rouge version) is in my head
<wolfger> Well you should at least replace that with the Chicago version
<cmaloney> Yeah, totally. :-p
<rick_h_> 'there was a boy....a very...'
<rick_h_> <3
<rick_h_> bah /me so so angry now http://www.androidcentral.com/verizon-wont-be-getting-developer-edition-moto-x-2014
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/W74sfu - Verizon won't be getting a developer edition for Moto X in 2014 | Android Central
<cmaloney> Verizon: We don't care.
<rick_h_> done
<cmaloney> ?
<rick_h_> getting it sans verizon and will cancel verizon and move to tmobile
<cmaloney> At least they'll have GSM instead of CDMA
<brousch_> We don't have to
<cmaloney> Which I think is more important for you with travel and whatnot
<greg-g> yeah, the one bad part of Ting for me
<rick_h_> yea, I won't do any more cdma stuff
<cmaloney> greg-g: yeah, me too
<rick_h_> and this is why I <3 google voice
<wolfger> I think t-mobile is probably the best local carrier for anybody who travels abroad
<wolfger> and +1 on the Google Voice love
<rick_h_> yea, I've thought about hte switch for years but love my verizon 4g and could get my phones unlocked and just pay for the privilage
<rick_h_> but if they're going to mess up the unlocked phone side I'll move along
<brousch_> tmobile the best at something?
<jrwren_> I'm planning to not have a phone when I travel.
<rick_h_> jrwren_: all good, hangout with me
<jrwren_> rick_h_: OK, I WILL! :)
<rick_h_> it's so vital from on the fly travel schedules, yelp for local food that's good, hours of places you want to go, maps to find the way
<rick_h_> it's amazing to think that people traveled abroad without one
<jrwren_> oh, I'll have a phone, It will just be wifi only.
<rick_h_> yea, but that's :/
<jrwren_> so I'm told.
<rick_h_> in the hotel it's like a tech conference, the wifi is usually crap unless you're in the canonical sprint stuff
<rick_h_> there you'll be golden, but the rooms lock up at night
<jrwren_> I'll find all the breweries with free wifi :)
<brousch_> Why is tmobile better than ATT?
<rick_h_> lol
<rick_h_> brousch_: because I had ATT before verizon (they were so bad I willingly WENT to verizon)
<aisrael> jrwren_: I heard you can get a prepaid sim, and re-charge it in atm's overseas. Might be worth looking into.
<rick_h_> aisrael: yea, depends on the place.
<rick_h_> brousch_: but tmobile has non-fast, but free international data
<brousch_> ah
<rick_h_> brousch_: so should help me use my phone to local the nearest hspa+ dealer :)
<rick_h_> brousch_: and they're less evil
<rick_h_> and the wifi calling stuff would be cool
<rick_h_> anyway, phone ordered, will have to work on the carrier move when it arrives
<brousch_> You use verizon. You clearly don't care about using evil phone companies
<rick_h_> brousch_: not when I can still get my phone I want, unlocked the way I want, and use the phones/devices the way I want
<rick_h_> I pay extra for it sure, but it's not been blocked until this go round
<widox> rick_h_: how is it blocked? did I misread that article?
<rick_h_> widox: you cannot get one that has verizon 4g freq
<rick_h_> widox: and it's not carrier backed/etc.
<jrwren_> aisrael: experimenting with unteathering from familY :)
<aisrael> heh
<rick_h_> oh wtf, the time researching carrier plans the phone's out of stock now?!
<rick_h_> by the time I built it, enter my info, and hit the buy button it's gone
<widox> rick_h_: ooh. that blows :-/
<cmaloney> rick_h_: Man that sucks
<cmaloney> Evening. :)
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-09-17
<wolfger> good morning
<rick_h_> morn
<wolfger> s/^/September /  :-D
<wolfger> and there's your earworm for the day
<cmaloney> Good morning
<cmaloney> wolfger: I hate you.
<wolfger> :-D :-D :-D
<wolfger> <bugsbunny> I looooove you! </bugsbunny>
<rick_h_> ruh roh, I sense a disturbance in some gaming force
<cmaloney> ?
<cmaloney> There's plenty of disturbances
<rick_h_> cmaloney: the hate part
<cmaloney> Oh, to wolfger?
<rick_h_> yea
<cmaloney> That was for the earworm
<rick_h_> oh
<cmaloney> I haven't had cuppa joe #1.
<cmaloney> It's too early for Neil Diamond
<wolfger> I think what's best about that earworm is that I forced you to actually work for it to get it.
<brousch_> Hey Detroitoids, where would you go for talks on Raspberry Pi, Arduino, and such?
<brousch_> i3?
<cmaloney> That might be the more consistent place
<cmaloney> though we're looking for speakers for October at MUG
<cmaloney> Raspberry Pi / Arduino would be pretty cool. :)
<cmaloney> Were someone to give a talk about it. :)
<brousch_> I'm actually asking for a Detroit-area friend who was interested
<cmaloney> Those are the only two that I'm confident would have something at some point
<cmaloney> MDLUG might as well
<jrwren_> i3 has talks?
<cmaloney> I don't know. I think they have sessions perhaps?
<brousch_> Hm, it will only cost me $25 in gas to go to Detroit and back with my new car. That's nice.
<cmaloney> brousch_: We'll pay for dinner. :)
<jrwren_> only?
<jrwren_> what were you driving before?
<jrwren_> what are you driving now?
<cmaloney> Prius now
<brousch_> Was a 2002 Toyota Sienna minivan. Now it's a 2010 Prius. Gets better than 2x the old MPG
<cmaloney> That's kind of an unfair comparison though
<cmaloney> minivans are really inefficient transportation
<cmaloney> unless you have more than 4 people w/ equipment
<brousch_> You won't do much better than 45MPG unless you have a Tesla or that 2 seater Honda hybrid
<brousch_> What night of the week is MUG?
<cmaloney> Second tuesday of the month
<cmaloney> 6:30pm-8:45pm w/ dinner afterward
<brousch_> wow, long meeting
<brousch_> I'm also working on a series of Inkscape talks. Giving the first one next week at WMLUG
<brousch_> I'll think about it. Pester me again in a few days.
<mrgoodcat> bad news... turns out i can't actually make CHC tonight
<rick_h_> booooooo
<cmaloney> mrgoodcat: I'm sorry to hear that. :(
<mrgoodcat> i've been trying to make it
<mrgoodcat> i have a class every other wednesday night though
<mrgoodcat> and i've had a lot going on at home
<rick_h_> party time!
<brousch_> mrgoodcat: Bring the family!
<mrgoodcat> ha
<mrgoodcat> i brought my brother once
<mrgoodcat> he didn't understand
<mrgoodcat> "everybody just sits around and codes"
<mrgoodcat> uh.... yea
<mrgoodcat> coffe house CODERS
<brousch_> You don't talk?
<brousch_> cmaloney: You are coming back for more abuse?
<cmaloney> brousch_: Yeah, I'm trying to improve my game.
<cmaloney> and if I can just figure out your capturing strategy then I can defeat you. :)
<cmaloney> mrgoodcat: Well, I probably scared him away with the GURPS talk. :)
<mrgoodcat> cmaloney: naw. he's in the gaming club at OCC
<mrgoodcat> gaming being role playing
<brousch_> The difference I see between your moves last game and people who whoop me is they tend to have more lone stones 1 space away from a thread
<brousch_> It gives you a place to retreat to
<brousch_> So for instance black stones at H3 and L10 http://www.dragongoserver.net/game.php?gid=927569
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/JiCGPv - DGS - Game #927569,104
<cmaloney> brousch_: yeah, I didn't give myself anywhere to run
<brousch_> So if I creep across his lines, those lone stones limit the movement
<cmaloney> http://ohiolinux.org/program/session-schedule
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/YzUhFH - Schedule | Ohio LinuxFest 2014 - The Future of Free
<cmaloney> Looks like there's some more advanced talks
<cmaloney> although WTF: There's actually talks on Friday.
<brousch_> Are you going?
<cmaloney> I'm planning on it
<cmaloney> JoDee and I usually go unless there's a special occasion.
<brousch_> You stay Friday night?
<cmaloney> We usually get there on Friday night
<cmaloney> or day depending on how quickly we get our shit together.
<cmaloney> and then leave on Sunday morning / afternoon (again, depending on said shit gathering)
<brousch_> Ah, so you spend 2 nights
<cmaloney> Yeah
<cmaloney> It's like a mini-vacation for us
<brousch_> In ... Columbus, OH?
<cmaloney> Between PyOhio and Linuxfest I think Ohio is our vacation getaway.
<rick_h_> lol
<brousch_> We need a tech conference on Mackinac Island
<cmaloney> Isn't Mackinac expensive?
<brousch_> Not if you stay off-island
<cmaloney> I think that's how they can afford to have free conferences: nobody wwants to be in Ohio.
<brousch_> I'm quoting you on that next time I see Eric Floer
<cmaloney> Great
<cmaloney> He'll probably retort that we'll have to pay people to come to Michigan.
<brousch_> tweet that first part
<cmaloney> You tweet it. :)
<brousch_> fine
<cmaloney> See, when you say it that way it sounds mean. :)
<brousch_> I am required to be mean to Columbus, OH. It's right in the degree certificate.
<wolfger> ha
<rick_h_> he! we talk at CHC! Or..at least I talk and generally gripe about something
<rick_h_> this one time I asked about cmaloney's cat...promise
<wolfger> talks on Friday but not Sunday?
<wolfger> http://ohiolinux.org/sessions/how-write-computer-language
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/gySFMB - How To Write a Computer Language | Ohio LinuxFest 2014 - The Future of Free
<wolfger> Is it just me, or is he cramming way too much into a one hour talk?
<cmaloney> wolfger: Possibly.
<cmaloney> rick_h_: yeah, I think I remember that day. :)
<wolfger> I counted ~13 topics he "wants to discuss". If he doesn't wait for stragglers, doesn't waste time on self-introduction, and doesn't allow questions, that gives him a hair over 4 minutes per topic.
<cmaloney> I'd love to know on what planet this is considered "Pop"
<cmaloney> .np squeekyhoho
<bookiebot> squeekyhoho's current track - Cortex Deformation by Trauma on Archetype Of Chaos
<cmaloney> I <3 it when I realize that one of the reasons I'm running into problems with an external system is because the naive call that I'm doing is creating / destroying a socket for each connection.
<cmaloney> and it gives me a speed increase to boot.
<cmaloney> go figure
<cmaloney> plus
<PhillyMelt02> Wanted to find out if the MUG meeting is held at the library on Liberty Street or Twelve Mile?
<cmaloney> Hi PhillyMelt02
<cmaloney> It's at the 12 mile location
<cmaloney> Should have directions on the site at http://mug.org
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/XzBZ0f - Michigan!/usr/group | mug.org â A Michigan-based Linux and UNIX Free and Open Source Community
<PhillyMelt02> Thanks.  Didn't see that at the bottom there.
<cmaloney> I really wish the UPS truck had a different sound than the schoolbus
<cmaloney> nothing good was ever delivered by a schoolbus.
<brousch_> Not true!
<cmaloney> heh
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-09-18
<rick_h_> no one at CHC?
<cmaloney> I'm here. :)
<rick_h_> https://t.co/OrCm93Ui8Q
<bookiebot> Juju GUI Machine View and Deployer Bar - YouTube
<rick_h_> cmaloney: ^
<aisrael> I'll need to come over for CHC sometime
<rick_h_> aisrael: you that close?
<aisrael> rick_h_: Oh yeah. I can be at the border in about 30 minutes
<aisrael> I'm not far outside of Windsor
<rick_h_> aisrael: gotcha, so it'd be a hike to CHC
<aisrael> Not bad if I were making a day of it. I don't mind longer drives.
<rick_h_> heh yea, though after driving to jcastro's house twice this week I'm done for now
<widox> rick_h_: wow, and its only Wed :)
<rick_h_> widox: wheee
<cmaloney> Good morning
<rick_h_> morning
<cmaloney> Sent a note over to the Computer and Video Game Archive at U of M seeing if they want donations of computers.
<cmaloney> and video games. :)
<cmaloney> We'll see what happens.
<greg-g> they're good people, not sure if they'll take it/need it, but they'll probably be friendly at least :)
<cmaloney> yeah, I'm not sure how they'll approach it since there might not be any games for some of the system.
<cmaloney> s
<cmaloney> But I'm to the point where I'd rather emulate some of these systems rather than keep the originals
<cmaloney> eg: I'm likely never going to run another DOS program without dosbox again.
<cmaloney> Although I found a really super-awesome emulator for the IMSAI 8080 / Altair machines.
<ColonelPanic001> cmaloney: "I look at other folks game designs / code and feel like I should just pack my books, computers, and what not and find something else to do with my time."
<ColonelPanic001> I've seen some of your stuff and done that as a reaction, fwiw
<ColonelPanic001> I assume you have every blog post you did a month ago in memory right now and recognize that random line I quoted.
<brousch_> wat?
<ColonelPanic001> mW?
<_stink_> milliWards
<greg-g> MediaWiki
<ColonelPanic001> yes
<ColonelPanic001> all of the above
<cmaloney> ColonelPanic001: Thank you.
<ColonelPanic001> I wouldn't trust someone that didn't get a little of that, minimum
<ColonelPanic001> probably is too arrogant to see where they might not be the greatest thing on earth
<cmaloney> yeah, there's always someone brighter, shinier, smarter, faster.
<cmaloney> I've been playing around with mindfulness which has helped out some with that
<cmaloney> understanding things as they are, not as I want them to be
<cmaloney> and then moving from there.
<cmaloney> .np squeekyhoho
<bookiebot> squeekyhoho's current track - Halo by Redshift on Halo
<cmaloney> https://redshift2.bandcamp.com/
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/QbfNYn - Music | Redshift
<brousch_> mrgoodcat: Did you used to run ChruBuntu on your chromebook before you went insane?
<mrgoodcat> brousch_: yes
<mrgoodcat> i've used chrubuntu and still use crouton
<brousch_> I need to do that tonight
<brousch_> Is the chrubuntu script still the best way to go for setting up dual boot?
<cmaloney> mrgoodcat: I thought you were using Arch on your Chromebook
<cmaloney> ?
<brousch_> He is, but used to use ubuntu
<mrgoodcat> brousch_: yes
<mrgoodcat> although there is a newer version of it
<mrgoodcat> ask in #chrubuntu for the new version of the script
<brousch_> I only see one from 2013, so I was curious
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-09-19
<cmaloney> Wow.
<cmaloney> Just realized I'd completely forgotten to release an OMC episode this week
<cmaloney> Good morning
<cmaloney> .np squeekyhoho
<bookiebot> squeekyhoho's current track - Aumetra The Witch by cYsmix
<brousch_> cmaloney: http://www.grand-con.com/
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/svvDxJ - GrandCon Gaming & Comic Arts |
<cmaloney> brousch_: Interesting
<cmaloney> Of course I'd find about it today. :(
<cmaloney> .np squeekyhoho
<bookiebot> squeekyhoho's current track - Mania by Redshift on Down Time
<cmaloney> https://redshift2.bandcamp.com/track/mania <3 love the hell out of this sonf
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/RBAbjB - Mania | Redshift
<cmaloney> song
<brousch_> cmaloney: I'd been focused on the big one and missed this small one. Sorry
<cmaloney> brousch_: No worries. :)
<cmaloney> It'd have been nice to say hi to Ed Greenwood. Not familiar with the rest of the folks.
<brousch_> And so you can't say I didn't notify you of the big one http://www.grcomiccon.com/
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/hnzK1I - Grand Rapids Comic Con | November 21-23 at the DeltaPlex in Grand Rapids, Michigan
<cmaloney> Not really into comics though. :)
<cmaloney> AS funny as that may seem.
<gamerchick02> happy friday everyone
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-09-20
<cmaloney> Evening
<gamerchick02> whoops missed your message. sorry
<rick_h_> party
<gamerchick02> party with the Roosevelts
<gamerchick02> (that's what we watched tonight)
<cmaloney> Morning
<rick_h_> morning
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-09-21
<brousch_> Installed a Unity Ubuntu for my son on his chromebook. He can't figure out how to close anything because of the damned hidden menus
<brousch_> "Click the X" "There is no X" "On the left side" "There is no X" "Go to the upper left corner of the screen and an X will appear" "Oh!"
<tony-smlr> SMLR Live E135 going Live soon - Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4twXJhXZaf4 - Audio: http://live.smlr.us:8000/streaming
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/ISqaI2 - SMLR Live Episode 135 - YouTube
<rick_h_> brousch_: teach him keyboard shortcuts like a real techie! ctrl-w
<brousch_> How does that even work on a touch interface?
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/r4DLeN - application/ogg
<rick_h_> brousch_: the menus? I think that's why they've got the flag to always show them?
<cmaloney> Good morning
<cmaloney> It's Touch. You never close anything
<cmaloney> You just let the OS crash and close things automatically.
<cmaloney> That's the way of the tablet.
<brousch_> I mean how do you even access the hidden menu with a touch interface. There's no hover
<rick_h_> brousch_: right and I say in a touch env you turn on permanent attached menus
<rick_h_> brousch_: there's an option for just that
<rick_h_> brousch_: http://askubuntu.com/questions/10481/how-do-i-enable-or-disable-the-global-application-menu see the 13pt answer for 14.04
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/Aqcl8Q - unity - How do I enable or disable the global application menu? - Ask Ubuntu
<cmaloney> Probably not a good sign when the coffee shop closes before the coupons for it expire
<cmaloney> Bean and Tea
<brousch_> doh
<brousch_> I have how good it feels to use an Apple computer. Too well built
<brousch_> hate
<rick_h_> huh?
<cmaloney> Apparnently he has touched an Apple product and found the Android stuff wanting
<cmaloney> Which means next time we see him we'll konk him on the head and drown him in the lake
<rick_h_> heh
<rick_h_> everyone partying on sunday?
<cmaloney> In thieory
<brousch_> No, the old Apple laptop
<brousch_> My wife uses it and I'm updating it for her
<brousch_> Such a perfect touchpad
<rick_h_> because touchpads are evil
<derekv> https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC_QIfHvN9auy2CoOdSfMWDw/videos  =D
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/VfytpT - Strange Loop - YouTube
<rick_h_> <3 derekv
<derekv> yea FRP is really big this year. also, advanced type systems.  everything else normal for strangeloop: distributed databases continues to be big, more lisp, logic programming, etc.  a bit more haskell then before, maybe.
<derekv> brb
<derekv>  fueled my interest in typing systems
<derekv> reenforced that i know basically nothing about distributed data stores
<rick_h_> yea, that one and glucon are two on my list of conf to attend
<derekv> come prepared to read lisp
<derekv> =P
<derekv> you don't need to know it well though, but either clojure or scheme are probably the most likely to pop up on a slide, javascript, python, haskell or scala may appear as well
<derekv> now watching https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TihhFQjtiZU&list=UU_QIfHvN9auy2CoOdSfMWDw&hd=1
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/2U1Knz - "The challenges and benefits of a functional reactive frontend" by Ian Davis - YouTube
<derekv> react keeps a virtual copy of the entire DOM, modifies that, then diffs it with the real dom, writing the changes
<derekv> which ends up being faster than writing directly to the DOM.  =o
<rick_h_> yea, react is cool. I want to get that into a work project
<derekv> i'm wondering about creating a custom reactive library for android
<derekv> the first thing i really want most on android (that would also make using/building an FRP libarary easier) is an observalbe persistent datastore
<derekv> observable?
<derekv> not sure how to do this, maybe i could start by looking at core-data (iOS)
<derekv> i think core-data is a subset of a proper relational database (that is implemented with sqlite), but has observability
<rick_h_> ouch, just had someone ping about having their bookie account removed. :(
<rick_h_> guess it's bound to happen
<derekv> did you purge?
<derekv> or you mean the change of url
<rick_h_> yea, purged out an account
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-09-14
<brousch> pyramid saves the day! I was down to mod_wsgi with apache or waitress for a working wsgi server on Windows
<brousch> For Django
<rick_h_> :)
<rick_h_> pyramid always wins
<cmaloney> for great justice
<jrwren> its because the aliens built them.
<brousch> In your Python projects, do you have Makefile commands for creating/populating/activating a virtualenv, or do you leave it to the user?
<jrwren> brousch: /I/ never assume or require venv use. i consider it an antipattern. Everything I work on at work does the opposite and has makefile commands which do venv sutff.
<brousch> jrwren: Interesting
<brousch> I think it's a good practice, but I'm not sure I should be imposing it for developing/running
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-09-15
<cmaloney> morning
<rick_h_> morning
<cmaloney> How goes the morning?
<brousch> tiring
<brousch> Calculating a consulting hourly rate is stressful
<cmaloney> brousch: I really hate that.
<cmaloney> money and computers should never mix. ;)
<brousch> heh
<brousch> Moving from a salaried job with 401k, health care, paid time off to one with none of that is quite different
<cmaloney> Ugh, are you consulting?
<cmaloney> or freelancing?
<jrwren> brousch: if you were making 50k, charge $50/hr. if you were making 100k, charge 100$/hr.  It only sounds like a lot to you. I won't sound like a lot to your clients.
<jrwren> brousch: Vacations, Health Insurance, Self Employment Tax and cost of business are expensive.
<rick_h_> jrwren: I've always heard 2x from hourly to annual
<jrwren> rick_h_: that can work too.
<cmaloney> I prefer the "if you have to ask you can't afford it" methodology.
<cmaloney> Just give me a blank check and I'll do the rest
<brousch> jrwren: That's the rule of thumb I've seen from a few other people
<brousch> It works out to roughly the same as rick_h_  suggests
<brousch> The freelance calculators I've found online end up 15% below that
<jrwren> brousch: give up that 15% and live in the poor house. I know. I did it.
<brousch> heh
<brousch> I'm afraid they're designed for punk kids willing to live in a van and never visit a doctor
<mrgoodcat> lol spacex has a pricing page on their website
<mrgoodcat> like i'm just gonna be browsing and be like 61.2M is such a good deal
<mrgoodcat> hope they accept paypal
<mrgoodcat> no "add to cart" button though
<cmaloney> mrgoodcat: Need to get away in a hurry?
<mrgoodcat> in style at the very least
<mrgoodcat> make all the bugattis at the club look like fools
<cmaloney> greg-g: Hurray on the "no surgery" prognosis
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-09-16
<greg-g> cmaloney: pt for the next 3 weeks, though, at least :)
<greg-g> but yeah, better than the worst case
<greg-g> also, I should stop typing
<rick_h_> greg-g: hah, dragon work on linux?
<greg-g> rick_h_: not sure :)
<rick_h_> linked to me by a team member today as "team lead 'must have'" http://goo.gl/3MV2HM
<wolfger> Ha!
<wolfger> I take it you are team lead?
<rick_h_> :)
<rick_h_> one of them
<rick_h_> http://goo.gl/hGbw2A looks good as well
<cmaloney> rick_h_: That's too true
<rick_h_> cmaloney: you hitting up CHC tonight?
<cmaloney> http://www.amazon.com/Away-Funny-Glass-Coffee-Mug/dp/B00V2BEIIG/
<cmaloney> yeah, planning on it
<cmaloney> (that mug isn't as good)
<cmaloney> rick_h_: You planning on going?
<rick_h_> cmaloney: yea, thinking about it.
<rick_h_> have permission :)
<cmaloney> That's the most important thing of all
<cmaloney> That's cool though/ We've missed you. :)
<rick_h_> yea, with school starting schedule shuffling
<rick_h_> and have a meeting at 1am so might as well go get some coffee :)
<cmaloney> Oh God.
<mrgoodcat> oh wow
<mrgoodcat> i don't even like it when work calls me after 8
<brousch> http://www.geekculture.com/joyoftech/joyarchives/2190.html
<mrgoodcat> 1am meeting out of the question
<cmaloney> http://www.geekculture.com/joyoftech/joyarchives/2190.html
<cmaloney> brousch: Great minds. :)
<brousch> did you click it in here, visit it, and then think it neded to be posted here as the most appropriate place?
<cmaloney> No, I read my RSS feed, noticed it, and decided it needed posting
<cmaloney> and then realized we posted the same thing one minute apart.
<cmaloney> (roughly)
<cmaloney> Because I didn't pay attention until that point
<brousch> You never listen to me!
<mrgoodcat> heh
<cmaloney> You're just now realizing this? :)
<cmaloney> Hah, love this email I got
<cmaloney> http://paste.ubuntu.com/12426782/
<rick_h_> well when folks are in russia, dubai, and then me in EST..meetings are hard to do
<cmaloney> I get great spam: http://paste.ubuntu.com/12426782/
<rick_h_> and doesn't happen often
<cmaloney> That was the body of the message
<cmaloney> Chalking it up to a botnet that can't get the payload.
<greg-g> today is one of a very few days that I'd like a projector in my office. I'd play Hackers on repeat all day.
<rick_h_> lol
<greg-g> it's also 1:1 day, so it'd be perfect
<cmaloney> Any particular reason for the Hackers love?
<greg-g> 20 year anniversay today (or yesterday, not sure)
<greg-g> 1995
<jrwren> the 686 prototypes with the artificial intelligence risc chip
<greg-g> jrwren++
<greg-g> I can almost hear it exactly in my head :)
<cmaloney> Heh, I really didn't pay attention to that movie
<rick_h_> well it's been 20 years :P
<cmaloney> Yeah, maybe I should get around to rewatching it.
<cmaloney> I think I've seen TRON: Legacy more times than Hackers
<cmaloney> and Hackers didn't piss me off nearly as much as TRON: Legacy
<rick_h_> lol
<cmaloney> https://twitter.com/fozztexx/status/644231788508811264
<jrwren> hahaaha
<gamerchick02> rick_h_ i can't get over how quick the xps 13 is. it's a sweet machine. how's your thinkpad?
<rick_h_> gamerchick02: space bar needsd love but happy with the move
<gamerchick02> cool
<gamerchick02> what was up with the space bar?
<rick_h_> it's not the best. misses on occassion
<gamerchick02> ugh. :(
<rick_h_> keyboards aren't what they used to be
<gamerchick02> no
<gamerchick02> especially with "thin" being the most important requirement of a laptop
<gamerchick02> have you see the new switches on the macbook?
<rick_h_> no, done with apple stuff
<gamerchick02> not the air, but the macbook? they're some odd butterfly switches. i tried it at best buy and it was ok but i wouldn't want to type for a long time on it
<rick_h_> the air has me running from thinking there again
<gamerchick02> eh apply stuff is usually well built
<gamerchick02> apple. not apply. i can't type
<gamerchick02> i like my ipad air 2. i'm trying to sell the ipad mini
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-09-17
<cmaloney> I'm amused at the number of folks losing their collective shit over the 3D printed TSA lock keys
<jrwren> +1
<jrwren> i made sure to grab the github repo, in case of takedown.
<greg-g> heh
<brousch> Interviewing with these guys this afternoon. They have an office in AA http://careers.stackoverflow.com/company/careevolution
<jrwren> brousch: best company around. I have dozen friends there.
<jrwren> brousch: if I didn't work for canonical, I'd maybe work there.
<brousch> Excellent
<cscheib> "No defined roles - just malleable, permeable areas of responsibility; e.g.:
<cscheib> "
<cscheib> that's pretty awesome.
<cscheib> is there a way to set an alert for if they open a devopsy role? heh
<jrwren> cscheib: honestly, if you are good, they will hire you. If you really want to work there. contact them, tell them what you do and that you want to work with them.
<jrwren> cscheib: no defined roles also means that they might not open a role
<cscheib> yea
<brousch> I sucked
<jrwren> brousch: :(
<jrwren> brousch: with whom was the interview?
<jrwren> brousch: I mean people, not place.
<brousch> John umbaugh
<jrwren> hrm, i don't think I know him
<brousch> I think he's remote from new york
<jrwren> ah
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-09-18
<rick_h_> cmaloney: http://techcrunch.com/2015/09/17/sneaker-website-campless-relocates-to-detroit-following-investment-by-dan-gilbert/
<cmaloney> rick_h_: geeeez
<jrwren> Dan Gilbert!!!
<rick_h_> jrwren: a guy at CHC is working on that web app
<rick_h_> jrwren: so was funny to see that article the day after CHC
<jrwren> rick_h_: ah.
<rick_h_> rss collides with real world ftw
<cmaloney> Morning and all that
<ColonelPanic001> hi
<cmaloney> howdy
<rick_h_> party
<DrDaemonEye> morning cmaloney, ColonelPanic001, and rick_h_
<ColonelPanic001> hi
<greg-g> I want: http://imgur.com/fVElhIq
<jrwren> or... you train your child to know that they aren't getting that shit.
<jrwren> my daughter never asks, cuz she knows.
<greg-g> when they're really young it's tough, now that Rowan is 3.5, it's mostly good, unless he's already in a bad mental place (or I am)
<jrwren> ha! yeah.
<jrwren> when lilly was really young, she didn't even know what that stuff was.
<greg-g> yeah, that was awesome
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-09-20
<cmaloney> morning, afternoon, and almost evening. :)
<dzho> g'day
<rick_h_> party
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-09-19
<cmaloney> morning
<rick_h_> morning
<cmaloney> How's the day?
<rick_h_> it's early so I'll give it a chance
<rick_h_> :P
<cmaloney> Heh
<cmaloney> Welcome back
<cmaloney> :)
<cmaloney> Just got laid off. Woo woo.
<rick_h_> ?!
<cmaloney> They eliminated my position at morpace.
<cmaloney> so I'm a free man
<rick_h_> man, that sucks sorry man
<cmaloney> no worries.
<cmaloney> Gives me time to polish the resume
<rick_h_> you were looking to move on already?
<cmaloney> Sory of, but naturally I hadn't gotten my shit together
<greg-g> ugh, sorry cmaloney :/
<cmaloney> no worries
<cmaloney> thanks. :)
<jcastro> sorry to hear that cmaloney
<cmaloney> Thanks.
<brousch> You'll find something better.
<cmaloney> That's the hope. :)
<cmaloney> At least I can rekindle my relationship with MARVIN
<cmaloney> see how he's doing
<Scary_Guy> oh man, fuck MARVIN.  I remember dad getting laid off from GM durring shutdowns and strikes.  not actual fired, just "we don't need you right now" but still had to use that to get by.  pain in the ass just waiting on the phone
<Scary_Guy> anyway, sorry you have to deal with that crap.  although I'm sure you'll find something better.
<cmaloney> Scary_Guy: thanks.
<cmaloney> http://openmetalcast.com/2016/09/19/open-metalcast-episode-137-chapters-end/
<greg-g> well done
<cmaloney> Thank you. :)
<greg-g> sometimes I put on dubstep, like it for about 5 minutes ("ooo, that's some fun bass, that'd have been awesome on my sound system I had in my pickup truck i high school") but then... 10 minutes later I remember... not my thing
<greg-g> (I miss that Ford Ranger)
<cmaloney> There's precious few dubstep tracks I can dig
<cmaloney> https://itsumusic.bandcamp.com/
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-09-20
<cmaloney> morning
<rick_h_> morning
<_stink_> yo
 * greg-g yawns
 * greg-g has been up for a while, took the baby for the morning stroll at 6am instead of Carrie today. Brought him back around 7:30 and they are now all still sleeping.
<rick_h_> wheeee
<greg-g> Trade off the sleep deprivation :)
<cmaloney> heh
<cmaloney> quality time vs sleep
<greg-g> yeah, I like my morning/evening walks with Terran. And, I like the semi-stillness of the early morning
<cmaloney> before it becomes the wriggle-worm shit-storm? :)
<greg-g> yuuuuup
<rick_h_> heh when we used to tent camp the boy would wake up at 5am every morning. First time someone made a sound
<rick_h_> so we'd sneak out to the car in our PJ's, and I'd drive away...into town.
<rick_h_> and listen to an audio book, while he fell back alseep and my wife slept in back at the  tend
<rick_h_> tent
<rick_h_> then I'd roll back in around 9am and go take a nap while she got the boy off to the day's activities
<greg-g> parenting (v): The art of putting little people back to sleep so you can get a reasonable amount of sleep yourself.
<rick_h_> :)
<Scary_Guy> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PaEnaoydUUo
<jrwren> Scary_Guy: hahahahahahahahahahahahahahah
<Scary_Guy> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPIjst463QM
<jrwren> Scary_Guy: loling so hard here.
<jrwren> wub wub wub wub wub
<Scary_Guy> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6p_RrIA_Alc
<Scary_Guy> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lr-Cr999fy0 this one is agrotech though
<Scary_Guy> oops, original, lol
<Scary_Guy> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VLV0X1VcheQ
<_stink_> that drum solo is awesome
<jcastro> rick_h_: man dude, the bears
<jcastro> what is happening
<rick_h_> jcastro: who? bears are cool. watched lots of katmai thisbseason on youtube
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-09-21
<cmaloney> morning
<_stink_> yo
<jrwren> anyone have advice on power drivers/drills? I've got a 12yr old driver and the batteries are getting very worn on it. So I was thinking I'd get an impact driver, but I don't want to be in the same situation in 10yrs. Just buy a corded drill? Buy both?
<rick_h_> if you don't want a battery issue in 10yr go corded
<rick_h_> they just don't last like that, I have to get new batteries every few years
<cmaloney> Yeah, I won't buy a cordless drill ever again
<cmaloney> They demo nicely, but they don't last
<jrwren> alright. that answers that.
<Scary_Guy> reddit.com/r/buyitforlife
<Scary_Guy> I don't get why they can make shavers with batteries that work when plugged in but not drills.
<Scary_Guy> I had a cordless camcorder with a charger that hooked on to the back of it and batteries that hooked on to that (back in the 90's)
<Scary_Guy> (from the 80's, was huge and used actual VRC tapes directly)
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-09-22
<jrwren> VHS or Beta?
<Scary_Guy> VHS :(
<Scary_Guy> Beta was the superior format, but as we all know VHS won out because there was more porn on it
<jrwren> is THAT what happened?
<jrwren> oh, and the porn was on it because Sony wanted Betamax licenses.
<Scary_Guy> wow, no wonder VHS won out then, fuck Sony
<Scary_Guy> although back then I think they were a lot less evil
<jrwren> sony just keeps doing that.
<jrwren> MiniDisc
<jrwren> MemoryStick
<jrwren> DSS (what was the DAT alternative?)
<jrwren> DDS
<Scary_Guy> proprietary formats always lose out because lack of access
<Scary_Guy> not to mention it usually doesn't matter anyway because of the analog hole
<jrwren> hrm... wiki pedia page makes me think I'm wrong and that DDS was precursor to dAT
<jrwren> actually, not much on the 80s and 90s formats: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Data_Storage
<Scary_Guy> I remember using old (at the time) CTR's in highschool, those were fun
<jrwren> CTR?
<jrwren> I don't think I know that format.
<jrwren> I'm trying to remember the DDS audio player I played with at a store in the early 90s
<Scary_Guy> oh I've probably fucked up the acronym
<Scary_Guy> oh, it was fucking U-matic
<cmaloney> Evening
<cmaloney> Evening ++
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-09-23
<cmaloney> morning
<rick_h_> morn
<_stink_> yo
<jrwren> yo yo
<greg-g> blu-ga-blu
<rick_h_> greg-g: it made me laugh more than it should, but love the selfie "is he asleep" thing
<greg-g> :) :)
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-09-24
<cmaloney> morning
<jrwren> morning
<jrwren> yakkety is less than a month away. so much excite
<cmaloney> What's exciting in it?
<jrwren> i've no idea. I should probably go look ;]
<cmaloney> Please do. I need to know what to be excited about. :)
<jrwren> actually... nothing to be excited about :p
<jrwren> 4.8 kernel maybe?
<cmaloney> woo woo
<jrwren> things to be sad about in yakkety is this bad timing: https://www.postgresql.org/message-id/27572.1474662715@sss.pgh.pa.us
<jrwren> postgresql 9.6 will be released after the yaketty feature freeze, so ubuntu will have out of date postgrseql OOTB and for a whole 6mo until the next release.
<cmaloney> postgresql folks use the ppa anyway
<cmaloney> i know i do
<jrwren> truth.
<jrwren> probably not even the lp ppa, but the postgresql.org repo.
<cmaloney> yep
<cmaloney> I think Lamphere is having a marching band competition.
<cmaloney> good memories
<cmaloney> save for the fucking drum harnesses.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-09-25
<Scary_Guy> Madison does the same thing sometimes, I can see it from my house.  Less annoying now that I don't have to actaully go
<Scary_Guy> still within earshot, but I'm happy to turn up the music and drown it out
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-09-18
<cmaloney> morning
<_stink__> yo
<rick_h> morning
<cmaloney> How goes?
<rick_h> wheeeee
<rick_h> I need a weekened to recover from my weekend
<rick_h> https://photos.app.goo.gl/wuEpu6nc27eZRces2 is kind of a cool summary of it. https://photos.app.goo.gl/wuEpu6nc27eZRces2
<rick_h> bah
<rick_h> anyway, fun weekend, sore and tired now.
<rick_h> google is rocking the photo stuff from this weekend where I used the phone a lot. I've not leveraged it much but kind of cool
<jrwren> cool beach
<rick_h> yea, aunt's lake place is a lot of fun
<rick_h> really makes me want a lake setup
<jrwren> ha.
<jrwren> I hear that from people so much.
<notlikethesoup> morning
<cmaloney> Am I reading this right:
<cmaloney> "Xapo is seeking a senior Full Stack Developer to join our team. We need someone passionate willing to work with first class engineers around the world. The ideal candidate will be a seasoned developer with proven experience in backend development using python, with strong knowledge of MySQL programming and Redis. The candidate must also be able to master front end development technologies using
<cmaloney> javascript, jquery and html. Developer profile mixture is 90% backend and 10% frontend. Experience with fin-tech and trading platforms development is required."
<cmaloney> So you need a back-end person who might do 10% front-end that needs to be able to master front-end dev.
<Zimdale> Master of the 10%
<cmaloney> Wish they would just say it: we're too cheap to hire two people to do this job
<Zimdale> That's what makes you a first class engineer
<cmaloney> rick_h: That is a set of contented faces
<cmaloney> Doing double the work at half the pay? :)
<cmaloney> That makes you something, but first class doesn't come to mind
<notlikethesoup> lol
<_stink__> s/cl//
<notlikethesoup> what a.. weird job description
<cmaloney> OK, so it's not just me then. :)
<rick_h> cmaloney: heh
<cmaloney> https://stackoverflow.com/jobs/150944/full-stack-developer-treasury-division-xapo
<cmaloney> Oh, it gets better: "Experience with other major development language and frameworks like, C, C++, Java or .NET, Node.js is desirable"
<cmaloney> Yeah... this sounds like a quagmire
<cmaloney> Native/Bilingual English speaker is a must. Spanish is a nice to have.
<cmaloney> Experience within fintech and knowledge about Bitcoins would be ideal. <- Oh hell no
<cmaloney> Should have looked at that from the start
<cmaloney> no wonder it reads weird
<rick_h> "must be willing to be paid in bitcoin"
<cmaloney> likely
<notlikethesoup> must be heterochromatic and a black belt in tai kwon do
<notlikethesoup> must make a really good toasted ham sandwich
<cmaloney> I have plenty of board games downstairs; I have enough funny money
<cmaloney> I'll pay myself in fate tokens
<cmaloney> https://xkcd.com/1891/ <- love it
<jrwren> https://goc.vivint.com
<cmaloney> Public SSH keys
<cmaloney> Read-only access
<cmaloney> Yeah, no.
<jrwren> are you kidding?
<cmaloney> Nope
<cmaloney> Just try to look at the problems.
<jrwren> all of that is public anyway. They are being nice by telling you that they are accessing it.
<jrwren> smh.
<cmaloney> Right
<cmaloney> https://goc.vivint.com/help
<jrwren> oh yeah. I guess I had logged in already.
<jrwren> Still, its fun.
<cmaloney> This application will be able to list and see private details for your public SSH keys. Public keys provide SSH access to repository content.
<cmaloney> Yeah, it's interesting how they set up the contest and the rules
<jrwren> cmaloney: are you misunderstanding that text, or pointing out that its not very good? thanks for nothing, github.
<cmaloney> I'm just curious why they would need this permission
<jrwren> oh, to add your pubkey to their gitserver.
<rick_h> we've been fighting that
<jrwren> you do each problem by cloning a git repo, making changes and pushing to it.
<rick_h> we want to auto import your public GH ssh keys...you can request them over the API without any permission/etc
<rick_h> but if you want to know the name the user has on them, that they need to give you permission for with some lovely oauth dance bits
<rick_h> which is kind of annoying just to add an already public key that you can get w/o any special permission over the api anyway
<cmaloney> Ah, so you can access their private repos
<cmaloney> So they can keep all of this stuff secret save for the participants
<jrwren> for the goc, they use ssh as your ID. Rather than generate a new pair they use existing one from github. That is all.
<cmaloney> jrwren: So I take it you're participating?
<jrwren> cmaloney: no. i'm hosting :)
<cmaloney> OK, there's a story there
<jrwren> cmaloney: what do you mean? I'm not really hosting. My coworkers are hosting.
<cmaloney> I'm confused then
<jrwren> cmaloney: I'm sharing https://goc.vivint.com here, with all of you, as an employee of spacemonkey, a company inside of vivint.
<cmaloney> Ah
<cmaloney> I didn't understand the relationship
<jrwren> No worries. I wasn't very clear.
<jrwren> true story: I didn't think it was possible for software to be as bad as JIRA.
<cmaloney> Bugzilla?
<cmaloney> or are you using Jira and finding it bad
<jrwren> using JIRA.
<jrwren> I've used many different issue tracking softwares in the past. JIRA is the first that reminds me of Remedy at Ford.
<cmaloney> Jira is what happens when you have a main product that doesn't get updated to newer conventions
<cmaloney> Hah
<cmaloney> I worked on Remedy at Ford. That was a clusterfuck
<jrwren> same.
<cmaloney> I mean I worked with the team that worked on Remedy
<cmaloney> We did some of the reporting and what-not
<cmaloney> That stupid quick-start panel was terrible
<cmaloney> and if you needed anything more than that panel then it was a nightmare of fields
<cmaloney> Of course Ford did what Ford does best: take a system that was designed for at most 50 users and try to scale it out to the whole fucking enterprise
<cmaloney> and then turn it into something nobody wanted to use
<cmaloney> The problem with Jira vs something like github / Trac is it's designed for issue management, not tracking
<cmaloney> it's designed to figure out workflows and processes and procedures
<jrwren> yup. terrible.
<cmaloney> it figures folks will want to know how long something is in there, and what to surface when things move through the process
<cmaloney> For most teams it is overkill
<cmaloney> but tools like Rememdy and Jira are about trying to control the process
<cmaloney> I remember one incident where a PC technician at Ford figured out how to game the system
<cmaloney> he wrote a script that would find his open tickets and close them
<cmaloney> got the technician fired but it highlighted that the main thing they were concerned with was keeping the SLA, not actually doing the work
<cmaloney> As far as the SLA was concerned the tech was fine
<cmaloney> model employee even
<jrwren> lol
<cmaloney> I think they fired the tech for something like destruction of data or some nonsense
<cmaloney> Soon after they started implementing the whole "was the work completed" surveying
<cmaloney> and the "reopen ticket"
<cmaloney> which didn't solve anything other than make the process more convoluted and incorporated a short-circuit loop that allowed customers who didn't like the solution to be vindictive
<cmaloney> But w/e
<cmaloney> Stupid machine lockups
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-09-19
<cmaloney> Speaking of JIRA: https://twitter.com/cgosimon/status/909656678110343168/photo/1
<jrwren> lol, htat is great.
<greg-g> Sep 19 Mint            ( 87K) A smart idea for crushing that debt
<greg-g> ugh, I hate financial people
<greg-g> more bros than tech, somehow
<rick_h> pretty much
<jrwren> pretty sure you hate people.
<rick_h> yea, that's true...
<brousch> cmaloney: I would look at that bitcoin dev job if I were looking
<cmaloney> brousch: Why?
<brousch> It could be interesting
<brousch> 90% python, frontend stuff isn't one of the damned JS frameworks
<jrwren> do they pay you in bitcoins?
<cmaloney> brousch: I have mentioned my severe allergy to bitcoin haven't I?
<cmaloney> and the words "fintech"
<brousch> You can cash in bitcoins for $
<brousch> bitcoin is the future!
<cmaloney> https://www.reddit.com/search?q=xapo
<cmaloney> Not with their debit card in Europe
<cmaloney> I swear I need to come up with my own currency
<cmaloney> call it Bongo Coin or something
<brousch> Get the coins sent to Coinbase, deposit into your bank account from there
<brousch> There are already thousands of other shitcoins out there
<cmaloney> where you get to watch a video of me playing the bongos and I get 100% fees
<jrwren> craigcoin for the aliterative affect
<cmaloney> WTFcoin for We Take Fee
<cmaloney> Seriously, I haven't seen as many people put their faith in flushing their money into a giant hole as this
<cmaloney> Save for Amway
<jrwren> amway will have made more people more money :p
<cmaloney> truth
<cmaloney> my big question is what happebs when bitcoin tanks
<cmaloney> "Someone great recently purchased a gift from your baby registry! You can visit your Thank You List to easily keep track of all gifts purchased. "
<cmaloney> ???
<cmaloney> " Your Amazon Baby Registry Team "
<cmaloney> Apparently I have a baby registry?
<cmaloney> I'd better tell JoDee. She'd probably like to know.
<jrwren> hahahahaha
<brousch> You can have a baby registry without having a baby
<brousch> Bitcoin has tanked several times. A month ago it was $5000, it recently fell to $3500
<brousch> cmaloney: another childless friend of mine got that same pop up from amazon
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-09-20
<cmaloney> brousch: Yeah, I think it was sent out by mistake
<jrwren> I think its not from amazon, but a phishing email
<gamerchick02> ugh phishing. :(
<rick_h> Ugh my wife got a phishing text she almost fell for. "Your Chase debit card is on hold...please call..." And she called, entered the debit card number, and finally realized uh uh when they asked for her pin
<jrwren> whew.
<rick_h> Yea crazy
<gamerchick02> that is crazy. blech. a pox on scammers
<cmaloney> jrwren: It wasn't phishing
<cmaloney> checked the links. THey were legit
<cmaloney> "200~Earlier today, we accidentally sent you an email from Amazon Baby Registry. We apologize for any confusion this may have caused.
<mrgoodcat> cmaloney: i saw on twitter this happened to some other people yesterday too. they must have had some sort of internal system fail
<rick_h> you get a baby and you get a baby and you...
<jrwren> ha!
<jrwren> I wonder how many other times in life I"ve got email and deleted it because I assumed it was phishing
<_stink__> rick_h++
<cmaloney> I let JoDee know
<cmaloney> https://twitter.com/timbray/status/910527439633133568
<cmaloney> \m/
<gamerchick02> https://lifehacker.com/amazon-mistakenly-sent-out-baby-registry-emails-1818594899 baby registry thing you guys were talking about last night
<cmaloney> Evening
<cmaloney> gamerchick02: Awesome. :)
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-09-21
<rick_h> lol of the evening...https://www.citusdata.com/ and search for "no lock"
<cmaloney> ummm
<cmaloney> morning
<jrwren> rick_h: the octocat for no lock?
<rick_h> jrwren: yea, seems odd representation there
<jrwren> they had to pic an icon from the icon set. it was the first one that wasn't already used. :)
<jrwren> what is the m-word alluded to here? https://www.tbray.org/ongoing/When/201x/2017/09/20/Tech-is-Evil
<jrwren> oh, nevermind, its at the end. Monopoly. well, duh, nothing new there.
<cmaloney> "The Worldâs First Adult Entertainment Site Powered By Blockchain Technology! WhitePaper: [redacted]"
<cmaloney> Apparently I have summoned the uberbot on Twitter.
<brousch> I don't understand 99% of the blockchain-based technologies that people have created
<cmaloney> Honestly the only thing I understand about blockchain is it tends to attract a lot of flies
<jrwren> anyone login to see how much those keyboards are at massdrop? i can't imagine they are a cheap or nice as this $26 Hcman ;)
<rick_h> jrwren: no, but now I'm curious
<rick_h> jrwren: unless it's ergo not sure I'm interested these days, though the greens had me tempted to try
<rick_h> jrwren: hmm, $124 atm
<cmaloney> Apparently Jorge ordered some CODE keyboards via Massdrop
<cmaloney> I'd ask him here but...
<rick_h> cmaloney: yea, I assume that's what jrwren was referring
<jrwren> lmao @ $124
<cmaloney> Yeah, I can get their keyboard any day of the week for $145  - $155
<cmaloney> Sorry, $165
<jrwren> https://www.amazon.com/Hcman-Mechanical-Keyboard-Switches-Computer/dp/B01N57WL39/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1506024542&sr=8-1&keywords=hcman
<jrwren> I guess I like blues.
<jrwren> reds and clears are too soft
<cmaloney> Have you tried the Blacks?
<jrwren> I've not.
<cmaloney> I've enjoyed them. They're heavy without being overly clicky
<Scary_Guy> I just want a nice split mechanical keyboard in Dvorak, why is that so hard?
<Scary_Guy> https://www.amazon.com/Kinesis-Freestyle2-Ergonomic-Keyboard-Separation/dp/B0089ZYMGQ/ref=sr_1_5/137-5137871-5882124?s=pc&ie=UTF8&qid=1506036759&sr=1-5&keywords=split+keyboard
<Scary_Guy> but also with a keypad too
<cmaloney> Can't help you there: allergic to split keyboards and really allergiv to Dvorak. :)
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-09-22
<Scary_Guy> Well, there's a learning curve but speed does improve over time.  I either want that or a keyboard with a meta key.  maybe I can remap the menu key on a windows keyboard or something but this Ducky I'm using doesn't even have a Windows/Super key
<jrwren>  mongodb ipo. 40M in cash, 400M in debt. 100M revenue on 160M expense. so... 1B valuation... what do you think they will actually try to raise?
<cmaloney> Steve Jobs
<jrwren> "We could be negatively impacted if the GNU Affero General Public License Version 3 and other open source licenses under which some of our software is licensed are not enforceable."
<cmaloney> Because those numbers are terrible
<jrwren> wow.
<jrwren> lol, @ trying to raise steve jobs.
<jrwren> those numbers aren't that bad.
<cmaloney> I don't understand the 1B valuation
<cmaloney> That reads like assumed income
<jrwren> ten times earning is std valuation
<cmaloney> It might be std, but it feels like fiction
<cmaloney> especially on something like MongoDB
<cmaloney> But then again I've been wrong on financial matters so take my prognostication with appropriate grains of salt
<cmaloney> It is cool that they're putting the AGPL et al as risks if they are unenforceable
<cmaloney> Though I would put "PostgreSQL takes over our mindshare" as a risk. ;)
<jrwren> i'm trying to find companies that have similar revenue, but stock screeners suck :)
<cmaloney> yes
<cmaloney> The only thing that they have to sell is their brand
<cmaloney> It reminds me a lot of Twitter
<jrwren> CARS as in CARS.com has a bit more revnue, but similar market valueation and similar lack of profit ;)
<jrwren> yes, twiter, snapchat, atlassian.
<cmaloney> Atlassian is not as much in that category
<cmaloney> they have a private product that they sell
<jrwren> BOX is similar enough too
<cmaloney> but Twitter doesn't sell a product
<cmaloney> Snapchat doesn't sell a product
<cmaloney> and MongoDB doesn't sell a product, they sell a service
<cmaloney> (iirc)
<jrwren> huh, carbonite on the other hand... weird. I wonder why carbonite is so under rated.
<jrwren> mongodb sells products.
<jrwren> no different than oracle or msft sells products
<jrwren> this is fun, i've never really looked through small cap tech companies before.
<jrwren> etreme networks, zomg, their revenue dried up.
<cmaloney> MongoDB has Atlas
<cmaloney> Everything else you can download afaict
<cmaloney> Oh, sorry, enterprise requires a subscription
<jrwren> products, services... what is the difference tehse days :)
<jrwren> more revenue than netgear!
<cmaloney> Netgear is taking a beating
<jrwren> whoa, rambus still exists.
<cmaloney> wheeee
<Scary_Guy> I watch a couple stocks for fun.  TSLA and AMD are both in the red by quite a bit now
<cmaloney> morning
<mrgoodcat> cmaloney: valuations are 99% bs 99% of the time
<mrgoodcat> rev*10 may be standard but I agree its bs
<mrgoodcat> there just isn't a better marker
<cmaloney> It just reminds me of some friends who had an assumed income for their mortgage that was essentially fiction
<jrwren> i much prefer earnings*10 to rev*10, but when you have no earnings, its tough, because then your valuation would be zero or negative. Which makes sense, why value a company that loses money?
<cmaloney> *cough*
<_stink__> because eyeballs!
<jrwren> oh man... http://man7.org/linux/man-pages/man2/copy_file_range.2.html  sweet syscall, sendfile with length limits. I wondered why I never heard of it and it was added in 4.5.
<jrwren> err wait... no socket support?  I need to play
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-09-23
<cmaloney> morning
<_stink__> yo
<_stink__> boy am i glad it's 90 degrees still
<_stink__> not
<cmaloney> Yeah, no joke
<cmaloney> I want to go back out to the patio and play with computers
<cmaloney> not in this heat
<cmaloney> morning-ish
<rick_h> yea :/ but looked at a house on a lake today and went hmmmm
<cmaloney> heh
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-09-24
<cmaloney> morning
<rick_h> afternoon
<cmaloney> http://www.8-bitcentral.com/images/blog/2014/decoInstructions.jpg
<cmaloney> This is kind of wild
<cmaloney> An arcade system that used cassettes to load the game ROM into memory
<_stink__> ah, pretty neat
<Scary_Guy> the only problem with that is not having the actual game graphics on the arcade box
<Scary_Guy> instead you get some generic pattern, although it would be cool if it displayed it on some LED matrix at the top
<Scary_Guy> 1980's problems
#ubuntu-us-mi 2019-09-16
<jrwren> oops... removing python2 also broke youtube-dl, lol
 * cmaloney makes ahem noises
<cmaloney> Though I think youtube-dl is python3 compatible? Maybe not
<cmaloney> I run it in a virtualenv
<jrwren> it is, but mine was installed long ago against python2
<cmaloney> ah
#ubuntu-us-mi 2019-09-17
<cmaloney> Good morning
<cmaloney> So, um, anything new? :)
<jrwren> FSF is now RMS free.
<cmaloney> Yeah, I know.
<cmaloney> I was on Mastodon when it hit.
<cmaloney> RIP sleep
<jrwren> oh no! do not read the comments.
<jrwren> i read way too many lwn comments and caught myself reading hte comments and immediately closed the tab.
<cmaloney> Well, on one IRC channel it was way more kind
<cmaloney> and it was fine until someone went into the whole mixing politics and software thing (they were against)
<cmaloney> which, I'm not sure where they were that day when it was announced that software was political, but OK. ;)
<cmaloney> https://functional.cafe/@juliobiason/102804921786785051 <- Why Rust and not Go
<jrwren> do you want my response? :)
<cmaloney> if you wish. :)
<jrwren> I'm maybe 1/8 into the blog post and I can already tell you author doesn't have enough Go experience (any) to be worth listening to on this topic.
<cmaloney> Have you done any Rust?
<cmaloney> Also the blog post is quite scattershot
<mrgoodcat> the paragraph marked "huge disclaimer" basically states "idk what i'm talking about"
<jrwren> i've not done rust, but hte points made aren't even about rust.
<jrwren> I'm sorry, but this author is IMO clueless, and not just about Go.
<jrwren> i shouldn't say clueless. I should say, misinformed and missing some big pieces of the picture about Go and also apparently about pypy
<jrwren> mrgoodcat: exactly.
<cmaloney> My take is the points that he's picking apart are meaningless
<cmaloney> this looks like something picking apart another post
<cmaloney> https://kristoff.it/blog/why-go-and-not-rust/ <- This post
<jrwren> I think I read that yesterday and I was also not impressed.
<jrwren> i 100% agree with the cargo cult points and i wish more people made them.
<jrwren> ugh, but the rest are from such a place of ignorance it is tough to read.
<jrwren> lmao... this is SOOOO bad.
<jrwren> The one thing that Go puts almost above all else, compile speed, and the response is "Ah crap, not that shit again."
<jrwren> WHY DID YOU LINK THIS GARBAGE TO ME!?!
<mrgoodcat> i have closed both blog posts
<jrwren> mrgoodcat: you are smarter than me. i can't not finish reading it.
<mrgoodcat> the go not rust one is at least more coherent
<jrwren> i want those 15min back
<jrwren> it is sad to think that if the author had spent the time writing that article, instead writing some go code, i wouldn't have had to read the article
<mrgoodcat> i am all about compile speed. makes me angry how slow most ~modern~ languages are at compiling
<mrgoodcat> ruins the dev/build/run loop
<mrgoodcat> most of my work code these days is typescript and it is painful
<jrwren> ugh, yup.
<jrwren> That is why I love Go.
<jrwren> my Go programs compile faster than webpack runs on a fresh create-react-app
<mrgoodcat> this thread does a good job capturing the frustration of a slow dev cycle https://twitter.com/garybernhardt/status/1007690864909529088
<jrwren> gary is always on point.
<mrgoodcat> always
<mrgoodcat> i very nearly went to deconstruct this year. had a ticket and everything
<mrgoodcat> maybe next year...
<mrgoodcat> to be very clear, i really like typescript a lot. almost all of the bad in typescript comes from the javascript leaking out
<mrgoodcat> i wish typescript would have a no compatibility mode fork that would allow some of the js weirdness to be disallowed
<jrwren> "Computers exist to serve us, not the other way around. If it is not fast and reliable then it is wrong!"
<jrwren> never forget
<brousch> Does golang have a repl?
<cmaloney> I know rust doesn't have a repl and that's a little frustrating
<cmaloney> I'm so used to Python's ability to test code like that
<brousch> I'm supposed to learn Golang, and found myself doing things in the Python repl for a project I should be doing in golang.
<cmaloney> heh
<cmaloney> Apparently this is supposed to sufice: https://play.golang.org/
<jrwren> there are repl's written for Go, but Go does not have an official repl.
<jrwren> I thought I'd want a repl. The compiler is so fast I don't miss having a repl.
<cmaloney> https://github.com/rust-lang/rfcs/issues/655
<cmaloney> It's more about the scaffolding to get to test code, honestly. If there's a template that gets me quickly to testing code then that's cool
<jrwren> do you mean like the vscode-go command "generate test for function" ?
<jrwren> https://github.com/cweill/gotests
<cmaloney> I mean something where I can go from open vim to getting something working
<cmaloney> Yes, grandpa likes his vim. Get over it. :)
<brousch> So you use a edit, save, compile, run workflow to explore a module?
<brousch> Maybe an IDE with conveniences built in would help
<jrwren> vim-go is pretty darned great.
<jrwren> to explore a go package, i read the source.
<brousch> Ug, that doesn't help me. I always have to play with it in a repl
<brousch> Well, it helps some
<jrwren> ya know you can import pacakges in the playgorund now, right?
<jrwren> see how yaml was imported: https://play.golang.org/p/TE4rrnXUToJ
<cmaloney> Yeargh, go code does not seem readible on first glance
<jrwren> is ANY code readable at first glance?
<jrwren> I'd argue it isn't, and ifyou think it is, you are wrong.
 * cmaloney mutters in Python
<cmaloney> Yeah, I completely understand. Rust looks foreign to me as well
<jrwren> python is definitely NOT readable at first glance. have you seen metaclasses?!?
<jrwren> False ** False == True
<jrwren> wtf python
<cmaloney> Yes, and they were a stubling block
<cmaloney> >>> False ** False == True
<cmaloney> True
<cmaloney> ;)
<jrwren> the "it reads like english" lie sold by rubyists for years always irked me
<cmaloney> Ruby has no claim on reading like English
<cmaloney> I completely agree there
<_stink_> i was reading something recently (maybe linked from this channel?) that said (paraphrasing) "if you can get past the lisp-isms, this code is more or less readable"
<_stink_> made me chuckle
<cmaloney> Heh
<cmaloney> Lisp is not read as much as it is parsed
<_stink_> granted, lisp devs often write domain-specific more than many other languages
<cmaloney> wagreed
<mrgoodcat> the marshal/unmarshal in go is really nice but i have to admit it threw me off at first
<jrwren> it is jsut different.
<jrwren> but i've found that everything in go is different for very important and good reasons
#ubuntu-us-mi 2019-09-18
<cmaloney> morning
 * greg-g yawns
#ubuntu-us-mi 2019-09-20
<ColonelPanic001> Came in this morning, put laptop on dock, external monitors no longer get detected
<ColonelPanic001> all I've done recently is rotate the left monitor
<rick_h> oops
<ColonelPanic001> so my question is how fast does a car have to be going to ensure death when I jump in front of it?
<ColonelPanic001> I can't use just one monitor like a barbarian
<ColonelPanic001> I plugged an HDMI monitor in directly to the laptop, works fine
<cmaloney> Good morning
<_stink_> did you reboot
 * _stink_ ducks
<ColonelPanic001> _stink_: several times
<ColonelPanic001> on the bright side, just was reminded I have xpilot installed
<jrwren> linux is for servers. :p
 * jrwren ducks.
<dzho> servers are for the internet
<dzho> the internet is for porn
<dzho> therefor linux is for porn
<dzho> thank you for coming to my ted talk
<ColonelPanic001> thanks now I'm fired
<ColonelPanic001> I nwo have three monitors on another dock, but my computer thinks there's four. There are not.
<ColonelPanic001> One of our interns has declared it the dead spirit of a destroyed monitor of the past
<_stink_> ColonelPanic001++
<jrwren> https://streaming.media.ccc.de/asg2019/relive/164  systemd-homed... because... systemd all the things. who needs /etc/passwd. LUL
<jrwren> very cool. https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/phame/post/view/175/wikipedia_s_javascript_initialisation_on_a_budget/
<cmaloney> Why the fuck are they screwing with home directories?
<cmaloney> JFC stop making Systemd an OS
<jrwren> I knew you'd love it cmaloney
<jrwren> after DNS/resolver, I couldn't guess what systemd would do next, and I didn't.
<jrwren> So what is next after this? I still can't imagine.
<cmaloney> I mean, if there was actual pain in there then I'd totally get it. Change it up.
<cmaloney> But now it's just feature creep
<jrwren> autofs maybe?
<jrwren> it must be an actual pain for someone.
<cmaloney> Who? People who hate knowing what is in their directory?
<jrwren> rw /etc. I think the goal is to run with ro /etc
<cmaloney> I think the goal is to remake the registry, poorly
<cmaloney> That was one thing that I didn't like about commercial UNIX was having to use special commands to admin things
<cmaloney> and we're re-making those mistakes
<jrwren> gconfd?
<jrwren> we've had linux xml registry for 15yrs, haven't we?
<cmaloney> Yes, and I'm still a bit salty about that
<cmaloney> I mean, some of the alernatives are "not great" either
<cmaloney> XML is terrible, and json / yaml weren't in vogue when the decision was made. Sailfish / Metacity used Lisp for configuration, which is always great to have a turing complete config.
<greg-g> awww, the rant on systemd overtook jrwren's other link which one of my sub-teams published :)
<greg-g> but: .ini dotfiles for ever :P
<cmaloney> Yeah yeah, javascript simplification. Whee.
<cmaloney> (I'm kidding. That's actually pretty sweet)
<greg-g> :P
#ubuntu-us-mi 2019-09-21
<jrwren> oh man, rick_h in paris?!?  for work or pleasure, rick_h?
<rick_h> jrwren:  end of a work sprint
<rick_h> been here this week, took Sat for my own paris running around and home tomorrow
<jrwren> noice!
<jrwren> http://smackerelofopinion.blogspot.com/2019/09/boot-speed-improvements-for-ubuntu-1910.html
<cmaloney> So they'll have larger kernel sizes for .24s speedup?
<jrwren> no. that is total time, as in read, decompression, and execution.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2019-09-22
<cmaloney> ahoy
<jrwren> https://www.change.org/p/detroit-city-council-make-dancing-legal-in-detroit
