#edubuntu 2006-07-31
<mhz> hi all
<Burgundavia> hey mhz
<mhz> I have been trying very hard to print cd faces/labels for edubuntu demos, BUT no mattery how exact my cd label design is in terms of 'measurements' when I print it, it always prints in recuded size :(
<mhz> hey Burgundavia 
<Burgundavia> which program are you using?
* mhz bb in 10 minutes
<HedgeMage> dangit, missed pygi
<mhz> Burgundavia: i make SCGs
<mhz> SVGs
<Burgundavia> mhz: have you tried glabels?
<mhz> but I do not print from it
<mhz> Burgundavia: yup, but honestly...glabels is too simple, lacking of many functions
<mhz> (AFAIK)
<mhz> so, I am forced to use Inkscape to design
<mhz> and if i wanted to use glabels
<mhz> I have to import it as Image...and hence lose quality
<lecaros> have you installed a compaq ij600 printer? (usb, detected as Lexmark Inkjet 4103)
<Burgundavia> 'ello Amaranth
<Amaranth> hi?
<Burgundavia> just saying hi
<Amaranth> ah :)
<pygi> :)
<jsgotangco> does anyone know if ESA is in a printable format with a nice layout (pdf, odt, etc.)?
<RichEd> greetz to all this miserable monday
<RichEd> ( weather is miserable, not me :)
<jsgotangco> yes its miserable weather here too
<KatteKrab> and here too :)
<jsgotangco> RichEd: do you have something in your TODO regarding flyers/advocacy paraphernalia for Edubuntu?
<RichEd> not that I can specifically recall ? give me some more background ?
<jsgotangco> well we have this thing called Edubuntu School Advocacy
<jsgotangco> https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuSchoolAdvocacy
<RichEd> yes ... I'm away of the link & background to that etc. i meant backgound to the ToDo ?
<jsgotangco> well i was just wondering if you have something in the works for such
<jsgotangco> i only assumed TODO :)
<RichEd> jsgotangco: this will be a major part of my discussions with mark & jane wed/thu :)
<jsgotangco> good luck
<RichEd> as in "how do we create a focus education approach that will take us forward for the next 12 months"
<RichEd> partners, supporters, users
<jsgotangco> heh we have 3 years for dapper desktop should be manageable
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
<RichEd> sorry please explain that last comment ? 3 years ?
<jsgotangco> Dapper is supported for 3 years on the desktop
* highvoltage wonders if RichEd is an AI program
* mode/#edubuntu [-o highvoltage]  by highvoltage
<KatteKrab> RichEd: I sent you an email regarding the Australian Computers in Education Conference - did you get it?
<jsgotangco> tags in launchpad..interesting
<RichEd> KatteKrab: I am in my inbox now ... will let you know in a few mins :)
<KatteKrab> :)
<RichEd> jsgotangco: support goes a lot broader than the desktop & s/w ... my head is trying to wrap around supporting s/w developers (OS and Apps), h/w, govts, content providers ... we need them all on our side to succeed
<jsgotangco> sure i guess that's your job ;) ours is to make the system work heh
<RichEd> and good luck to all of us ;)
* RichEd goes into his mail for a bit ... be back in 5
<RichEd> question[highvoltage]  = answer NOT
<highvoltage> :)
<jsgotangco> man i love how k3b manages to give a laugh on the staff here when it finishes burning a cd
<RichEd> KatteKrab: give me a clue to the subject or sender address ? gotta lot to wad through this end
<cbx33> g---hoooood---morning
<highvoltage> good mornign cbx33 
<highvoltage> glad to see you in a good mood again :)
<cbx33> I'm on holiday today
<cbx33> and I'v had my hair re-styled
<cbx33> that alwyas puts me in a good mood
<KatteKrab> RichEd - sorry was in another window - subject line is "Edubuntu and Australian Computers in Education Conference"
<RichEd> morning cbx33 ... tx for the good mail
<RichEd> KatteKrab: sent to me or the list ?
<cbx33> RichEd, np, is it helpful?
<RichEd> cbx33: most
<KatteKrab> sent to you.
<KatteKrab> @canonical
<KatteKrab> on Friday
<KatteKrab> should I resend?
<RichEd> KatteKrab:  - yep I have it ... nope don't resend
<KatteKrab> :) 
<RichEd> KatteKrab: ... quick responsese 1) i am discussing conferences in general with JaneS & Mark wed / thu this week (cbx33 is part of this with BETT requests)
<KatteKrab> great. :)
<RichEd> so will add yours as "in how can & do we give more support"
<RichEd> 2) CD's - will speak to Shippit people ... will CC you in
<KatteKrab> thanks, that would be helpful. 
* cbx33 is still waiting for his cds
<cbx33> :p
<KatteKrab> please let me know if you need me to source more info for you...
<cbx33> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuSounds
<cbx33> please guys some feedback on the latter ones
<RichEd> 3) cooperation ... will respond via email need to check out your links :) all4now
<cbx33> I'm pretty pleased with them
<KatteKrab> RichEd: cheers :) 
<cbx33> highvoltage, like the new hair? https://launchpad.net/people/petesavage :p
<cbx33> can't see it too clearly there
<cbx33> thinking if I get to go to the sumit next time I may have red streaks put in.....just for a giggle :p
<highvoltage> cbx33: it's nice
<cbx33> heheh
<cbx33> highvoltage, have you heard any of the new sounds yet?
<highvoltage> nope
<cbx33> check em out
<cbx33> :p
<cbx33> I really need feedback
<jsgotangco> it would have been better if you dyed it pink or silver
<cbx33> jsgotangco, heheh
<cbx33> totally pink?
<highvoltage> pink is so 1990's
<jsgotangco> lol did you try it before?
<jsgotangco> im grabbing the opera browser for my DS later
<highvoltage> no, my hair has been eminem white twice, pitch black, green and blue before.
* cbx33 thinks either blue or bright red for next summit if I get to go
<cbx33> this is the first time I dyed my whole head
* jsgotangco likes his hair long and black
<highvoltage> in south africa, some of the old ladies like to colour their hair bright red, which has made it uncool here.
* highvoltage needs to get back to work
<cbx33> aha
<highvoltage> although i will say this before i go:
<cbx33> sorry highvoltage 
<highvoltage> i want to have dreadlocks one day :)
<cbx33> highvoltage, ME TOO !
<jsgotangco> i dont think it'll fit you
<cbx33> not yet
<highvoltage> cbx33: yeah, that's the attitude!
<jsgotangco> good evening
<bddebian> Hello
<jsgotangco> hi
<bddebian> Heya jsgotangco
<pygi_> morning jsgotangco 
<jsgotangco> hey
<pygi_> how is you?
<jsgotangco> pretty good i just bought a new game for my pocket console heh
<jsgotangco> testing out wifi on it now
<pygi> jsgotangco, you and your games :P
<pygi> I should sue those "Super Mario" people !
<pygi> they stole my name !
<jsgotangco> haha
<jsgotangco> ever since i discovered playing online on a pocket console is possible, i haven't been playing much on the pc
* Yagisan waves good evening
* Yagisan waves to ogra. You here mate ?
* Yagisan waves to HedgeMage 
<HedgeMage> hi Yagisan :D
<pygi> HedgeMage, you have jabber
* HedgeMage looks
<LaserJock> Burgwork: a planet.edubuntu.org sounds kinda cool
<HedgeMage> :)
<HedgeMage> That would be cool, and very easy to just flip on since the site is already drupal based.
<LaserJock> it would be nice to get teachers and school admins especially
<HedgeMage> My mom's a teacher, and I've finally gotten her to start blogging :)
<pygi> bye all
<HedgeMage> hi mhz 
<HedgeMage> seeya, pygi 
* HedgeMage hugs pygi 
<mhz> hi there
<mhz> pygi: dont leave, please
<LaserJock> hi cbx33 
<cbx33> hey LaserJock 
* cbx33 just got a new phone
<cbx33> :D
<LaserJock> cbx33: is gisomount in the archives yet?
<cbx33> not as of this morning
<cbx33> :(
<LaserJock> must be still stuck in NEW
<cbx33> yup
<cbx33> I'm using my last ubuntu sound as my message received tone my new hpone
<cbx33> sounds great!
<ogra> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/edgy/+queue?queue_state=0&queue_text=iso
<cbx33> LaserJock, I'm just ignoring it now
<ogra> yup, its in new
<cbx33> I'll just check every week or so
<cbx33> till it gets there
<highvoltage> cbx33: new hair, new phone... are you going through a young-life crisis?
<cbx33> highvoltage, could be
<cbx33> I have a new lease of life
<cbx33> or so I think
<Yagisan> highvoltage, nah. It must be a chick
<highvoltage> excellent
<highvoltage> Yagisan: hopefully not, he's married ;)
<cbx33> Yagisan, how did you know that lisa talked me into getting a new phone?
<highvoltage> cbx33: which phone?
<cbx33> sony w810i
<Yagisan> highvoltage, I'm married too. when my wife says haircut, the correct response is to get a haircut
<cbx33> Yagisan,  i hear ya
<Yagisan> cbx33, I read 3 lines above my post
<cbx33> heheh
<LaserJock> Yagisan: hehe, my wife just cuts it :-)
* highvoltage want s something in the line of 
<highvoltage> http://www.zdnetasia.com/news/communications/0,39044192,39378580,00.htm
* Yagisan is glad my wife does not have time to cut my hair
* cbx33 's sister in law cuts his
<LaserJock> highvoltage: I'm really wanting one of these: http://www.martifacts.com/newsletter/062003/TELEGRAPH%20KEY.jpg
* highvoltage looks
<cbx33> LaserJock, ahhh yes
<cbx33> the old WAT protocol
<cbx33> "Waggle and Tug"
<highvoltage> LaserJock: problem with those are, they're quite heavy on battery life ;)
<cbx33> heheh
<LaserJock> not if you crank while you talk ;-)
<cbx33> or peddle
<cbx33> get peddling LaserJock 
<highvoltage> bill gates would'nt like that
* cbx33 can see LaserJock attaching it to a dynamo on his bike :p
<LaserJock> nah, I'll hook it up to the power supply on the Nd:YAG laser
<cbx33> apparently bill gates doesn;t care any more :p
<LaserJock> 50,000 Volts :-)
<cbx33> LaserJock, with a current of?
<LaserJock> hmm,  I'm not sure
<cbx33> what's the wattage?
<LaserJock> heck if I know, I just want what comes out of it ;-)
<cbx33> LaserJock, could be the power of an LED for all we know :p
<LaserJock> :(
<cbx33> hehehhe
<LaserJock> I've got a few of those too
<cbx33> sorry bud
<LaserJock> this laser output something like a gigawatt in the 5 ns it's on
<cbx33> don;t go in the room blinking is my advice
<cbx33> could get ya gibets blown away
<cbx33> giblets
<cbx33> ping ogra 
<ogra> pong
<cbx33> ogra, I've tried to find out who deals with the sounds for ubuntu in general
<cbx33> and did you check out the latest ones
<cbx33> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuSounds
<ogra> yep
<cbx33> like em?
<cbx33> number 8 makes a cool mobile phone message tone :p
<LaserJock> cbx33: did you take a look at fridge today?
<ogra> well, i like them all, but i'm still missing some life :)
<cbx33> no?
<cbx33> ogra, the life can be added later
<cbx33> besides I'm also trying to enter these for ubuntu
<cbx33> in general
<cbx33> might be cool to have the same theme with a slight modification for ubuntu distros...like edu, xub etc
* LaserJock plugs in his high voltage supply, "It's alliiiiivvvveee!!!!""
<cbx33> ahhh thanks LaserJock 
* highvoltage supply?
<LaserJock> dude, notice the space, it was intentional ;-)
<highvoltage> :)
<LaserJock> I don't have a highvoltage supply
* ogra wanders off for some TV and care for his broken back ...
<LaserJock> are you done moving?
<ogra> yep
<highvoltage> LaserJock: not? :(
<ogra> fsvo done :)
<LaserJock> heh
<ajmitch> ogra: you mean you'll be unpacking boxes a year from now :)
<ogra> not a year, but surely some months :)
<LaserJock> highvoltage: well, I do have a supply of highvoltage pics from Paris, and a perhaps a funny video at the eifel tower ;-)
<highvoltage> eek! i thought we were going to forget about taht!
<LaserJock> heck no
<LaserJock> I've got to figure out how to edit it just right 
<cbx33> ping RichEd 
<pygi> mhz_food: what do you mean by: "dont leave, please"?
<lucasvo> pygi: last time mhz told you he loves you, you left
<lucasvo> :)
<bddebian> hehe
<mhz> re
<mhz> pygi: yeah, lucasvo's right
<pygi> lucasvo, mhz , lol, when?
<lucasvo> I don't remember
<lucasvo> today
<JoergD> hello, has anybody experience with the option-129 setting in edubuntu?
<cbx33> option-129?
<JoergD> well, i mean building up a network with a second dhcp server (e.g. http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/DHCP#Multiple_DHCP_servers_on_the_sam )
<JoergD> The option-129 should be used to tell the client on the 2nd DHCP-Request to ask for a specific DHCP-Server Port (e.g. 1067) - unfortunately it does not work with my edubuntu installation
<cbx33> JoergD, try this
<cbx33> are you runnign a windows dhcp server?
<JoergD> No, I want to set up some thinclients in our school. There we already have a dhcp server running (debian), but it has to be untouched.
<cbx33> ah
<cbx33> so you can't setup some reservations on that dhcp server?
<pygi> cbx33, please try to do : "svn co http://libburn-svn.pykix.org --username anonymous"
<cbx33> o
<cbx33> hang on
<JoergD> no, not that easy. the problem is, that the clients only should boot into edubuntu if there is the bootdisk in the floppy drive. Otherwise, the existing os (which is installed on hdd) should be booted.
<cbx33> password?
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> well read this
<cbx33> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/LTSPMultiboot?highlight=%28ltsp%29
<cbx33> I wrote that doc for that exact purpose
<cbx33> we modify our "windows" dhcp server to use that boot pxe
<pygi> cbx33, should be no password?
<cbx33> pygi, ok
<cbx33> :D
<cbx33> works pygi 
<cbx33> revision !
<cbx33> 1
<pygi> cbx33, good, good :)
<lucasvo> pygi: what project are you working on?
<pygi> lucasvo, libburn
<pygi> having problems with subversion configuration
<JoergD> well, i forgot to mention that the installed system asks the dhcp-server via PXE for a ip-address, too. It's a confusing configuration in our schoolroom, because the clients boot over the network in order to check the installed os (called rembo - never heard of before). That's why I can't use your solution, i think.
<lucasvo> pygi: use bzr!
<pygi> lucasvo, bzr is bad with Trac
<lucasvo> no
<lucasvo> and anyhow bzr is great with launchpad!
<lucasvo> anybody can tell me how to update site-packages in python?
<lucasvo> JoergD: look at: http://rom-o-matic.net/5.4.2/
<lucasvo> press on configure on step 3
<lucasvo> there is an option: STATIC_SERVER_IP:
<lucasvo> try this
<JoergD> ok, up to now i tried to use ALTERNATE_DHCP_PORTS_1067_1068.... no luck so far....
<lucasvo> JoergD: with rom-o-matic?
<JoergD> yes. the first dhcp request is answered correctly by the dhcp-server, which listens to port 1067. the second request by the linux-kernel asks always on port 67 - which is the wrong port. But I'll try the STATIC_SERVER_IP option
<pygi> lucasvo, please try "svn co http://libburn-svn.pykix.org/trunk" and tell me if it works
<HedgeMage> hiya pygi :)
<pygi> morning HedgeMage 
<lucasvo> pygi: what user?
<pygi> lucasvo, well, none? :)
<pygi> lucasvo, it shouldnt ask you for a user?
<pygi> lucasvo, does it ask you for a user?
<lucasvo> yes
<lucasvo> I'll paste the output
<lucasvo> http://pastebin.ca/109062
<pygi> lucasvo, try the same now
<lucasvo> same
<pygi> sec
<pygi> now pls
<lucasvo> same
* pygi is so confused
<JoergD> lucasvo, same problem. the client starts a dhcp request (the second one) before the nfs-mount. and the client asks the wrong dhcp server, again...
<pygi> lucasvo, try : "svn co http://libburn-svn.pykix.org/trunk foo"
<lucasvo> pygi: same
<lucasvo> JoergD: and you can't change the dhcp config of the other server at all?
<pygi> lucasvo, try again now
<lucasvo> same
<lucasvo> JoergD: if you can't, it seems to me, the only option is, to look for the second dhcp request in the image  and fix it
<JoergD> lucasvo, where can I find some information how to adapt the image? I suppose i have to change the sources and create a new image. If this also does not work I'll talk to my school's sys admin
<pygi> lucasvo, again pls
<lucasvo> same
<lucasvo> JoergD: I'd say talking to your school's sysadmin will be the easiest way
<JoergD> lucasvo, well, but it seems to be possible to realise it... e.g. http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=ltsp-discuss&m=108942421726352&w=4 
<pygi> HedgeMage, I am going insane with this svn :(
<pygi> lucasvo, again pls
<HedgeMage> pygi: what's wrong with it?
<HedgeMage> and which svn?
<pygi> HedgeMage, anonymous access not working
<pygi> mine =P
<pygi> libburn-svn.pykix.org
<pygi> HedgeMage, svn co http://libburn-svn.pykix.org/trunk foo
<pygi> try pls
<HedgeMage> nope, wants a pw
<pygi> enter?
<HedgeMage> no dice
<HedgeMage> anyhow, if it's anonymously available, it won't ask at all
<JoergD> lucasvo: I wonder if it only has something to do with the edubuntu setup - the edubuntu ltsp client just does not want to recognize these option-129 setting, which should tell the client the correct dhcp-server. But I'll keep working on it... after taking some sleep. Thanks for your hints!
<pygi> HedgeMage, please try now
<HedgeMage> same result
<lucasvo> JoergD: good night
<pygi> svn co http://libburn-svn.pykix.org/trunk test
<pygi> HedgeMage, try that
<HedgeMage> one sec
<HedgeMage> same
<pygi> damn, it should work!!
<HedgeMage> :(
<oomph> would edubuntu be used well in an internet cafe environment?
<LaserJock> hmm, interesting question
<LaserJock> I guess it might depend on the setup, how many computers, and what the specs are
<LaserJock> I wouldn't see a particular motivation to use it over other derivatives other than if you wanted to use LTSP
<Burgwork> LaserJock, public computers are public comptuers
<Burgwork> a lot of the same issue that apply to schools apply to internet cafes
<LaserJock> I suppose, but I wouldn't think an interenet cafe would be interested in the edu apps
<Burgwork> no
<LaserJock> and if you don't want LTSP then there isn't a whole lot seperating Edubuntu from Kubuntu or Ubuntu or Xubuntu
<Burgwork> not yet at least
<LaserJock> right
<oomph> yeah good point
<oomph> I wanna do a LTSP setup for an internet cafe
<oomph> with dumb terminals tieing into an application server
<oomph> for basic functions such as word processing, surfing the web and IM
<Burgwork> you still have the issue fo securing the desktop and time control
<oomph> correct, are there any distributions geared towards that?
* Burgwork zips his lip
<LaserJock> heh
<Burgwork> oomph, we love it if you could help edubuntu develop those sorts of features
<oomph> yeah, would be great
<oomph> like an out of the box internet cafe running on linux thin clients
<oomph> with support for crap like VoIp would be nice :)
<Burgwork> voip would seriously choke in an ltsp environment
<oomph> yes, it probably would
<oomph> how well does sound work under LTSP under edubuntu?
<Burgwork> very well
<oomph> would an application like skype run on it?
* Burgwork , having never installed Edubuntu, is unable to tell you
<Petaris> later all
<lucasvo> oomph: afaik it works
<oomph> lucasvo: afaik?
<lucasvo> oomph: as far as I know
<oomph> k
<oomph> well for a small 10 node internet cafe VoIP may not be too much overhead if it indeed works
<lucasvo> no, but I would try to get a gbit uplink on your switch  to the server
<oomph> true
<oomph> lucasvo: do you currently run edubuntu?
<lucasvo> yes
<lucasvo> but no ltsp
<oomph> ahh
#edubuntu 2006-08-01
* HedgeMage peeks in again
<Burgwork> hey HedgeMage 
<HedgeMage> heya
<HedgeMage> how's life?
<cbx33> ping RichEd-1 
<Burgwork> any lvm experts around?
<cbx33> I woudn't call myself and expert but
<mhz> lvm or User Mode Linux?
<cbx33> mhz, lvm I would presume
* mhz is very interested in UserModeLinux performance and reliability..though me is ignorant about it
<cbx33> mdz, Xen is better performing
<mdz> mhz: they solve quite different problems
<cbx33> true
<cbx33> sorry mhz didnt quite tab enough
<mhz> mdz: thx for clarifying... Have you used UML ?
<cbx33> no
<mdz> mhz: yes, I used it extensively a couple of years ago
<cbx33> it does depend on the application
<mhz> all i know about it, is that Univ. of Illinois use it for students while they learn Unix SysAdmin. So they log in, they get whole server to practice.
<cbx33> mhz, we did that for 4 students
<cbx33> gave them a Xen machine each
<mhz> and is performance good enough? is it a reliable solution?
<cbx33> yeh it worked fine
<cbx33> it was oen a crappy 400mhz machine
<cbx33> with only just enough ram
<cbx33> each VM had 32Mb RAM
<cbx33> it was for teaching CLI
<cbx33> they were all logging into each others macines over ssh
<cbx33> had a great time
<cbx33> we did some apt-get updating
<mhz> nice
<cbx33> they loved it
<cbx33> they're only 14
<cbx33> I run the "YouthLUG" at the school
* mhz will try it as soon as he has his own machine
<cbx33> mdz, btw, I mailed the list, have had great responce so far :D
<cbx33> mhz, yeh Xen was pretty easy to isntall
<mdz> cbx33: good
<cbx33> mhz, I downloaded the sources from the net
<cbx33> it has a nice easy setup script
<cbx33> IIRC
<cbx33> I did it on debian
<cbx33> never tried on ubuntu
* mhz is a debian fan
<Cornellius> Gonna try using ONLY linn this hd.
<Cornellius> errr
<Cornellius> linn = Linux
<jsgotangco> hey Cornellius that's a good step :)
<Cornellius> That may sound dumb but, how do you mount the floppy in the terminal ?
<Cornellius> mount /dev/something ?
<Cornellius> Well, as root
<cbx33> mount /dev/fd0
<Cornellius> Any other good WMs except KDE, Gnome, E and Xfce ?
<bimberi_> fluxbox, openbox
<bimberi_> good? you be the judge ;)
<RichEd> hi ogra ... all trucked out ?
* Yagisan waves to ogra 
<jsgotangco> hey guys
<RichEd> 'ello dere jsgotangco
<HedgeMage> Hi, all
<highvoltage> ogra: just popping in... would this be of any use? http://people.w3.org/~dom/archives/2005/09/setting-up-a-secure-remote-x-session-with-gdm/
<Burgundavia> highvoltage: all those emails bounced. Can you send me an email? corey.burger@gmail.com
<highvoltage> Burgundavia: ok
<Burgundavia> highvoltage: cheers!
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: are you still pursuing the xfce-edubuntu thingie?
<ogra> highvoltage, thats the zenity stuff we looked at in paris, remember ? you need local users on the clients for that
<ogra> RichEd, yup, all done :)
<RichEd> good stuff ... and are your comms all working nicely ?
<Burgundavia> highvoltage: one of these days I will get your email right ;)
<RichEd> highvoltage: hi there ... you gotta sec ?
<jsgotangco> http://www.ubuntu-ph.org/?q=node/29
<Burgundavia> night'
<cbx33> ping RichEd 
<cbx33> what time is your meeting?
<RichEd> cbx33: 10:30
<cbx33> hope it goes well
<jsgotangco> RichEd: are you in dreary london?
<RichEd> tomorrow jsgotangco : but at the moment, cape town is dreary & london is sunny from what i hear
<jsgotangco> oh right summer blues
<cbx33> well I wouldn't call it sunny here :p
<cbx33> RichEd: is the meeting today?
<RichEd> cbx33: 1hr6 mins is not enough to get from cape town to london ;)
<cbx33> heheh
<jsgotangco> lol
<cbx33> i just htought it funny you were having the meeting today, and goign to london tomorrow
<jsgotangco> unless you blast off from space
<jsgotangco> then land near battersea
<jsgotangco> hmm its neat that battesea power station would become a commercial complex
<ogra> RichEd, the k&k is a very nice hotel btw, i really enjoy sitting in the garden in te morning there with my first coffee :)
<RichEd> great ... i'll probably be stressing to get to office & wrap up all the threads of the last 3 weeks into some sense to presnet to my new boss ;)
<RichEd> going to check your emil now ...
<RichEd> emil <- email
<RichEd> thanks ogra : some good constructive points
<ogra> i hope so :)
<ogra> even though most of it is redundant :)
<RichEd> ogra: 1 last question around this ... (i don't think we need to meet today) would a regular weekly 30 mins IRC chat help for ogra, rodavarus & riched ?
<RichEd> just a brain dump touch sides sort of a thing
<ogra> kind of a edubuntu management meeting ? 
<ogra> sounds good to me 
<RichEd> yes ... just to drop stuff onto me that is gloating in the heads but not getting around to emailing etc.
<ogra> yup
<RichEd> floating not gloating :)
<RichEd> redundant = reinforcement = 2 x repeat = needs focus !
<RichEd> tx. will let mark know we meet management / core team & silbs & sabdfl & mdz can have a standing optional invite
<cbx33> progress on the ubuntu sounds front :D
* cbx33 is now on the artwork mailing list - much more feedback from there
<cbx33> RichEd: sorry about that strange mail from bolivia
<cbx33> not sure why it got sent to me
<RichEd> cbx33: we need support on the ground ... it looks as if the mail contact may be of some help ... thanks for giving some filter thought, but it may just be a case of awkward english
<ogra> RichEd, are you listed anywhere as educational contact yet ? website/wiki etc ?
<RichEd> https://wiki.canonical.com/RichardWeideman <- just here atm ... need to move copy to wiki.edubuntu.com & also announce on fridge
<RichEd> brb
<spacey> RichEd: hi there
<spacey> RichEd: what kind of stuff can you do for educational institutes?
<RichEd> hi spacey ... i'm a programme manager ... not a supermarket :)
<RichEd> what sort of thing is happening and wherr would you like help ?
<RichEd> i'll need some specific direction - and then will be willing to help if it is constructive for both parties :)
<RichEd> can you mail me some background ... urls ... email ... & suggestions ?
<RichEd> richard.edubuntu@gmail.com
<cbx33> dang RichEd I was gonna ask for my weekly groceries from you
<cbx33> wrapped up in an edubuntu bag
<spacey> RichEd: well we just have some schools as customer who use edubuntu, and sometimes we get some other interested parties, i wonder what you i can tell them about you :P
<RichEd> spacey: i'm very willing to help ... but with limited info, all i can suggest is to provide CDs which i know is trivial ...
<RichEd> so if you could tell me things like what country, what city, any problems, any successes ?
<RichEd> what sort of people are asking = end users, school administrators ?
<RichEd> is there a local edu policy on FOSS vs MS ?
<RichEd> is government interested in FOSS ?
<ogra> RichEd, it should also be promoted on www.edubuntu.org (the website)
<ogra> (your role i mean)
<RichEd> that sort of thing ... even if you just dump your thoughts into a mail conversation ... it will be a start of a dialogue
<RichEd> ogra: noted ... added to my list ... will try for Friday to do that & then hit the fridge with a decent announcement once mark has given me clarity :)
<ogra> yup :)
<spacey> RichEd: well actually i'm in contact with some people who are lobying at the local government, you think you could mean something for them?
* pygi is looking for contributions to libburn, so if anybody's interested ;)
<spacey> at least there are no local policies, except that MS gives everything for free :P
<cbx33> pygi: I'd love to, but I'm swamped !
<RichEd> spacey : yes ... i have been tasked with putting together a govt. summary intro for Edubuntu ... this is broader than just s/w and will also include FOSS benefits etc.
<pygi> cbx33, ;)
<ogra> pygi, did you take over upstream ?
<pygi> ogra, indeed I have, finally !!!
<ogra> cool
<RichEd> so we can work on that to start ... i am just tied up now as i fly to london in 7 hours ... can you mail me ?
<pygi> ogra, there are several big enchantments coming ;)
<cbx33> pygi: :D
<ogra> well, basic functionallity would be a good start :P
<cbx33> hahah
<pygi> most notable of them for now is complete libisofs rewrite :P
<pygi> ogra, tickets please :)
<pygi> http://libburn.pykix.org/newticket :)
<spacey> RichEd: ok, something like that would be useful. I guess it will be announced when available, or should we keep in contact for that?
<pygi> ogra, would be great if you could file tickets for any basic functionality you have in mind =P
<RichEd> start a mail thread ... i'll bounce stuff backwards & forwards with you ... if i can add your req. to my scope of doc, i will end up with a better doc.
<spacey> RichEd: later this week i'll mail you the current situation, 
<RichEd> tx.
* pygi looks if there are bugs against libburn in LP
<pygi> ofcourse not =P
<ogra> juliux, !
<juliux> hi ogra 
<juliux> ogra, how are you?
<ogra> juliux, when did you arrange my talk at come2linux ? for sat or for sunday ? (9th or 10th ?)
<juliux> ogra, i didnt arrange any thing, 
<ogra> juliux, i'm fine, move is done ... i just have to unpack all that crap here now :)
<ogra> oh, ok ... i thought you were doing that 
<juliux> ogra, i can ask sven-tek if there is a slot free, but i think there is more then enought solts free
<ogra> yep, i just needed to know if you arranged anything already, because i'll likely go to michigan shortly afterwards for a ltsp hackfest and need to arrange my dates 
<juliux> cool
<ogra> well, so so ... its past feature freeze ... 
<juliux> hehe
<ogra> i'd have preferred to work with jammcq and sbalneav a bit earlier ... but i think we'll concentrate on the code merge
<juliux> hm i think i have to test the knot this week
<juliux> but the dsl connection is here by my partents very very slow
<juliux> ogra, vortraege@come2linux.org this is the address for the talks
<ogra> 9th and 10th as advertised on the wiki is right ?
<juliux> jap
<ogra> oki :)
<ogra> thats most important :)
<ogra> michigan is due for 13th ...
<juliux> hehe 
<juliux> enough time between it
<ogra> yeah
<juliux> ogra, but i think i will not be in essen
<ogra> RichEd, http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/rich_ed_hackergochi.png <-- reworked to be a real hackergochi :)
<RichEd> will chekkitout ... brb
<RichEd> looks like a disembodied ghost head :) but it is probably just me that looks scary 
<ogra> well, thats how hackergochis look, see http://planet.ubuntu.com
<ogra> give me another pic and i can make you one 
<lucasvo> ogra: more helpfull would be, writing a howto. :)
<RichEd> thanks ... not complaining at all ... original comment was from jane ! will sort it out later ... trying to make sure i can get onto my flight with a change of clothes
<ogra> lucasvo, there are plenty of howtos for that
* RichEd is always willing to learn ... but as yet cannot fly to london without a plane
<lucasvo> ogra: where?
<ogra> lucasvo, google ?
* RichEd also admits that as yet he might just about qualify for "script kiddie" or "repeat-recipe-bot" so will need to earn hackergochi status
<RichEd> :)
<lucasvo> naah, everybody should have a hackergochi
<ogra> you need to become a member asap ... :)
<ogra> and get a blog if you dont have one yet, to get it on planet ;)
<RichEd> sure ... blog is on my list ( long list :) do you have a recommended host ?
<ogra> not really ... i use my own server (but my last blog entry dates back 2 years ago iirc :) )
<RichEd> i am to do a "i'm a convert and willing to admit my sordid past and put that behind me" approach
<RichEd> with a "you too can linux and not be afraid"
<RichEd> i think that will fit / resonate with a lot of my / our target audience
* pygi wants opinions :)
<pygi> http://static.flickr.com/63/203738260_54e8624ff8_o.png
<RichEd> www.blogger.com : Google <- is this home politically correct ? i assume it runs on FOSS ?
<ogra> pygi, is it snowing at your place ? you missed to remove the snow caps from the font :P
<ogra> else it looks cool i think
<pygi> snow caps? :)
<ogra> yes, on the letters :)
<pygi> what's wrong with snow? :)
<ogra> looks a bit winterish ...
<pygi> fire vs. snow =P
<pygi> ogra, will see what I can do about it :)
<jsgotangco> RichEd: better use livejournal.com
<jsgotangco> if you want FOSS
<RichEd> okay ... is blogger .com running on M$ ? or uniX
<Yagisan> RichEd, nmap it
<ogra> Yagisan, thats an odd advice for someone who just converted :)
<pygi> ogra, :P
<ogra> and nmap wont show you what blogging software is used, only the server ...
<Yagisan> ogra, I thought the question was what OS is it running ?
<ogra> Yagisan, still ... nmap is nothing i'd advise at all to a recent ex windows user ...
<ogra> :)
<Yagisan> ok - I
<Yagisan> bub helps me type
<ogra> btw, th shipped gnome network tool will do portscans etc ... in a way more userfriendly way
<Yagisan> ogra, does it set off alarm bels as it does it ?
<ogra> no idea ...
<Yagisan> ogra, if it uses connect, then yes it does
<Yagisan> I should test it out against an ids
<Yagisan> when I get time
<ogra> i have no idea what it uses in the backend ... but its shipped by default and doesnt require a ton of commandline knowledge
<cbx33> RichEd: how was the meeting?
<cbx33> or have you not had it yet?
<cbx33> I keep forgetting people are in a difefernt time zone here
<cbx33> Yagisan: you ever played with snort_inline?
<Yagisan> nope
<cbx33> 0_o
<Yagisan> lack of time :(
<cbx33> hehe
<cbx33> I wrote an article for compiling it a while back
<cbx33> on linux gazette
<cbx33> very cool stuff
<cbx33> except back then it had no stream reassembly 
<cbx33> so things like telnet were not blocked if you know what I mean
* RichEd puts on an orhpan annie wig & dress and sings to cbx33 "tomorrow, tomorrow, i'll see them tomorrow, it's only a day awayyyyyy ..."
<cbx33> sorry RichEd 
<cbx33> forgive my stoooopidity
* RichEd genuflects and sprinkles holy water ... arise son ... your sins are forgiven and washed away
<Yagisan> RichEd: I can't say for certain, but www.blogger.com is running either Level One embedded, or Linux 2.4.X|2.6.X on a router
* Yagisan whistles innocently
<RichEd> thanks Yagisan  ... www.blogger.com says "powered by google" and google is a working partner of ours (canonical) so i am guessing it is non-offensive to the community
* RichEd will avoids riched.blog.msn.com
<Yagisan> RichEd, I thing I only hit the load balancer
<Yagisan> s/thing/think
<RichEd> bimberi : hi
<Yagisan> I don't have the time to probe deeper today
<RichEd> Yagisan: sounds like doctor speak ...
* RichEd backs up against the wall
<cbx33> RichEd: you're supposed to run round :p
<bimberi> hi RichEd
<cbx33> run/turn
<Yagisan> RichEd, this might be odd, but, are you related to JaneW ? your last name looks familair 
<bimberi> distantly ;p
<RichEd> bimberi:  thanks for the confernece contact ... any comment you want to add ?
<RichEd> (and please don't hurt my boys too much this weekend)
<bimberi> lol
<RichEd> Yagisan: yes, distinctly odd ... I took over from her in a tangential but expanded role
* RichEd cannot even support the cricket ... rapidly running out of sporting supporting options
<Yagisan> yesh, I've been around less then I usually am for a while
<ajmitch> RichEd: not even rugby?
<Yagisan> I'm getting senile in my old age
<bimberi> oh dear, ajmitch is here - there goes my bragging rights ;(
<RichEd> ajmitch: bimberi's boys smacked my boys around a bit
<ajmitch> hehe
* ogra curses
<RichEd> actually, quite a lot : 49-0
<ajmitch> ouch
<ajmitch> bimberi: remind me how the australia-NZ game went, would you? ;)
<bimberi> ajmitch: oh c'mon, i was so nice to RichEd
<RichEd> Yagisan: send me an intro email & a hi to JaneW richard.edubuntu@gmail.com
<RichEd> at least that was a game ... our was more like that doctor exam comment i made earlier
<ajmitch> bimberi: alright, I'll be nice :)
<RichEd> -> going to pack a bag for my trip ... in and out for a bit
<Yagisan> RichEd, np. 
<RichEd> (that last comment has no relation to the doctor comment above)
<bimberi> RichEd: (conference) not really.  Just to say that Donna (KatteKrab on Freenode) is, from what I've observed, a real Linux Australia stalwart
<bimberi> RichEd: she has achieved sponsorship from LA to attend the conference so it is considered a very good opportunity to spread the word
<RichEd> bimberi: her mail was pretty professional & polite & to the point etc. usually a good sign of dedication & being well thought out
<RichEd> so i will look after her ... and  keep a channel open
<RichEd> tx
<bimberi> yes it was.  If it was me would have forgotten to mention me (if you know what i mean)
<bimberi> np :)
<rodarvus> good morning
<bimberi> hi rodarvus
<RichEd> hello rodarvus ...
<RichEd> busy wrapping & packing ... did you have a chance to check out the email ?
<rodarvus> hi bimberi and RichEd!
<rodarvus> RichEd, I received it - will read your email *now*
<ajmitch> morning rodarvus 
<rodarvus> hey ajmitch!
<rodarvus> RichEd, ogra: my reply is on your inbox :)
<ogra> rodarvus, "McQuillian" ;)
<rodarvus> oo
<rodarvus> oops
<rodarvus> haha
<ogra> :)
* rodarvus apologizes to Jim :)
<rodarvus> I watched "Cars" yesterday
<rodarvus> the car in the main role is called "Thunder McQueen"
<rodarvus> </lame_excuse>
<rodarvus> :D
<ogra> hehe
<RichEd> thanks rodarvus 
<RichEd> JaneW likes pickup ... /me is a bit concerned about that ;)
<highvoltage> ogra: ok thanks, i didn't realise that it was the same
<highvoltage> RichEd: i do have now :)
<bddebian> Howdy
<Amaranth> hey
<bddebian> Hi Amaranth
<Amaranth> i've got the funnest bug
* Amaranth stabs dbus
<bddebian> Heh
<Amaranth> if i run my program as root it work, if i run it as willowng user it works, if i run as root and drop privs to willowng user it doesn't work
<bddebian> Ugh
<Amaranth> indeed
<RichEd> highvoltage: just was checking if you got the "suspect certificate" mail and if it was your dept ? or now with Matt Nuzum
<Amaranth> ogra: did you see my fun with dbus? :/
<ogra> Amaranth, yes, did you check hal ?
* cbx33 starts on creating some more sounds
<Amaranth> ogra: it's interface ownership stuff is the same as mine
<Amaranth> i copied avahi's but it's the same thing
<ogra> pitti can probably help out here 
<Amaranth> btw, it seems /usr/share/dbus-1/services/ isn't checked for these files, only /etc/dbus-1/system.d/
<Amaranth> but pkg-config says to put them in /usr/share/dbus-1/services/
<ogra> the service file is the replacement for the initscript if you start willowng from dbus ...
<Amaranth> oh :P
<ogra> system.d has the xml for the messages etc
<highvoltage>  /msg RichEd which mail was that?
<ogra> Amaranth, you can start willowng from dbus and use an ACL entry (look at /etc/dbus-1/system.d/hal.conf how to enable root access)
<Amaranth> start it from dbus?
<ogra> like network manage or hal
<ogra> *manager
<Amaranth> http://rafb.net/paste/results/7rs4ts10.html
<ogra> /etc/dbus-1/event.d/
<Amaranth> ah
<ogra> looks fine
<Amaranth> so that's why those things restart when dbus does
<ogra> yep
<Amaranth> common-install-impl:: is where to put that?
<ogra> no idea, i'm no cdbs guy :)
<Amaranth> that's where it's at in hal's rules
<ogra> but souds about right 
<ogra> *sounds
<Amaranth> ok, this is doable
<Amaranth> i guess i don't need my update-rc.d call anymore
<ogra> yep :)
<RichEd> cheers all ... may not be online much for 2 days
<ogra> juliux, http://ubuntu.blog.de/ do you have any idea what he means with ust ? thats no ubuntu development ...
<juliux> ogra, mom
<juliux> ogra, he writes about ubuntu not only ubuntu development
<juliux> ogra, in german it is er ist ein wichtigtuer
<Amaranth> UST was on the fridge the other day
<Amaranth> then pulled
<Amaranth> it's some guy on the forums remaking YaST as a command-line only thing and doing it all by hand instead of using ncurses and such
<jsgotangco> ogra: http://www.freesoftwaremagazine.com/articles/linux_terminal_server
<Amaranth> well, that was different
<Amaranth> note to self: don't restart dbus
<Amaranth> ogra: dbus is now the one starting willowng, it still won't own the interface
<ogra> Amaranth, yes, you will need a reboot notification 
<Amaranth> i restarted dbus
<Amaranth> willowng is running
<ogra> i'm not sure that suffices
<Amaranth> ok, brb
<lucasvo> jsgotangco: the cost per client diagramm is wrong
<jsgotangco> you could comment on it
<jsgotangco> i haven't read it in-depth
<jsgotangco> the magazine has become a pseudo ubuntu magazine this issue lol
<ogra> lucasvo, why ?
<Amaranth> Introspect error: The name com.ubuntu.WillowNG was not provided by any .service files
<lucasvo> ogra: if you have 100 clients you can't just put 100x256mb ram disks into the server
<ogra> sure you can ...
<lucasvo> ogra: and the first client is more expansive, because you also have to buy a server
<lucasvo> ogra: how so?
<ogra> its "costs *per client*"
<lucasvo> that must be a big mobo
<Amaranth> that's 25GB :P
<ogra> totally not including the server
<Amaranth> stupid g-p-m
<ogra> whats wrong ? 
<Amaranth> keeps telling me my battery if fully charged every time it goes up 1%
<ogra> between 90 and 100% ?
<Amaranth> because acpi -V says "charging at zero rate - will never fully charge"
<Amaranth> yeah
<ogra> or all the time ? 
<Amaranth> 90 and 100%, i guess
<ogra> i'm just discussing that bug with upstream.... :)
<Amaranth> this is the first time it's done it
<ogra> (i maintain g-p-m)
* ogra wonders if he should state that publically)
<Amaranth> #dbus was no help, i guess i should talk to pitti
<ogra> he knows it in and out from the hal perspective ...
<Amaranth> ffs g-p-m, go away
<Amaranth> i'll just run on battery for now :P
<Petaris> for ltsp I just accept all the deffaults at install time right?
<Yagisan> Petaris, that is usually the quickest/easiest way to get started
<Petaris> Yagisan: ok, I thought so but then thought I better make sure
<Yagisan> np Petaris 
<Petaris> Yagisan: Do you know if there will be a painless way to move to edgy when it comes out?
<Petaris> *besides a fresh install ;)
<Yagisan> Petaris, should be a simple dist-upgrade at that time. I've not checked if there is a grahical way to do it, but it can be done from the command line
<Petaris> Yagisan: good, I have my tape backup software running on this box and I would rather not have to set it up again
<Yagisan> Petaris, just change all "dapper" to "edgy" in /etc/apt/sources.list then run "sudo aptitude update" then "sudo aptitude dist-upgrade" and sit back with a good coffee/tea
<Yagisan> 99.99% of the time, it works perfectly
<Petaris> oh great, with my luck I'm the .01%
<Petaris> haha
<ogra> Yagisan, the update-manager is the preferred update method 
<ogra> we dont care much for aptitude in ubuntu 
<Yagisan> ogra, as I said, I wasn't sure of there was a graphical method.
<Yagisan> you don't care for aptitude. /me cries
<ogra> its more than "a graphical method"
<ogra> update-manager has various checks and cares for additional ubuntu specific stuff
<ogra> aptitude doesnt ... neither does apt
<Petaris> Is there a good resource/tutorial for local apps?
<ogra> u-m also removes replaced stuff betwen two releases for example
<Yagisan> that may be why every one of my headless servers failed an upgrade then :(
<Petaris> I can't find a good example in the wiki
<ogra> only the ltsp.org one afaik
<Petaris> ogra: ok, I'll look there
<ogra> Yagisan, well apt-get dist-upgrade should work, it would just leave unused stuff behind
<ogra> Petaris, we dont support it yet, thats why its ot on our wiki ;)
<Yagisan> that it does. usually end up with some obsolte libs
<Petaris> ogra: its not supported but is LOCAL_APPS=Y a valid config option non-the-less?
<ogra> nope
<ogra> its not implemented yet
<Petaris> hrm
<jit1> I'
<jit1> Ooops...I'm setting up an HP t5525 thin-client with edubuntu...in fact writing this through the client.  What am I missing to get the USB ports operational for mounting flash drives?
<Petaris> jit1: Local device support
<ogra> the implementation of local device support ... i'm starting to work on that this week ...
<ogra> it's a targeted feature for edgy (6.10) ...
<jit1> I'm so happy to know that I'm not missing something.  Thanks so much...looking forward to becoming part of this community.  Hopefully, we will be able to implement it at some schools here in Zeeland, Michigan.  I appreciate the work you all are doing...
<ogra> and we appreciate every installation running out there ;)
<Petaris> jit1: Where abouts is Zeeland?
<ogra> michigan :)
<Petaris> I meant where in Michigan
<jit1> The southwest side of the lower peninsula of Michigan.  Right near Lake Michigan.
<Petaris> 365.28 miles from me
<Petaris> I'm in NW Wisconsin
<cbx33> ping highvoltage 
<highvoltage> pong cbx33 
<cbx33> highvoltage, on the edubuntu artwork page on the wiki, you are down as the contact for new artwork submitted to art.ubuntu.com
<cbx33> mind if aliasvegas is added there too?
<highvoltage> cbx33: sure! I suggest you replace my name with her name
<cbx33> ko
<cbx33> thanks, just wanted to check
<highvoltage> np, thanks for checking
<cbx33> howz it going
* cbx33 has 500K free for the next 3 months on his phone onctract
<cbx33> may try it out :D
<highvoltage> i'm just two days (hopefully) away from finishing a big project
<cbx33> after that.....$8 a Meg
<highvoltage> looking quite forward to having tis chunk of work done
<highvoltage> what? wow, mobile bandwidth is expensive in UK
<cbx33> yes
<cbx33> t-mobile are the only ones that do a decent data tarrif
<cbx33> but it's totally the opposite
<highvoltage> in south africa, it's about R0.50 per MB on mobiles (GPRS/EDGE/3G)
<cbx33> $16 a month for unlimited
<highvoltage> so that would be about 5p per meg
<cbx33> I'm hoping my oprator will do the same soon
<cbx33> I can pay 25p a meg
<highvoltage> vodacom and mtn were R2 per MB
<cbx33> or,...
<cbx33> no 1 a meg
<highvoltage> then virgin mobile launched here last month with R0.50 per MB
<cbx33> but I have to buy a bundle for that
<cbx33> wow
<cbx33> it was .5p per K here on virgin
<highvoltage> geepers
<highvoltage> it's probably because so many people use mobile bandwidth here that it's so cheap
<cbx33> yeh
<cbx33> sux
<highvoltage> our landlines are heavily expensive
<cbx33> I WANT NICE FREE BANDWIDTH
<cbx33> highvoltage, for data?
<highvoltage> data and voice
<cbx33> I pay 20 a month for 8Mb BB line
<highvoltage> if it goes through a cable in south africa, it's expensive
<cbx33> 30Gb peak
<cbx33> 300Gb off peak
<highvoltage> we have a telecom monopoly here, they charge about R1000 per month for a 384k line with a 3GB cap
<highvoltage> after 3GB, they cut you off for the rest of the month
<cbx33> woh
<cbx33> I have it good then :p
<highvoltage> yeah, you can't complain :)
* HedgeMage peeks in
<highvoltage> hi hedgy
<highvoltage> hi HedgeMage 
<highvoltage> :)
<cbx33> hi HedgeMage 
<Yagisan> I had a forced upgrade to a 30GB/month (suposedly 24000k/1000k, but my hardware will never do anywhere near that) for $60AU/Month
<HedgeMage> hi guys :)
<highvoltage> wow
<highvoltage> i should lie a line from australia to cape town :)
<HedgeMage> rofl
<Yagisan> highvoltage, I was happy paying less, and with a lower cap
<Yagisan> I was given a choice, upgrade or go back to dialup
* cbx33 would love to be able to use more data
<cbx33> hopefully soon it'll get better
<cbx33> 1 per Mb is just silly
<highvoltage> i think they figure "hey, they're willing to pay 2.50 for ringtones and mobile wallpapers, so we can surely charge them  1 per MB?"
<HedgeMage> Yagisan: aww :(
<highvoltage> cbx33: MTN does data roaming in UK, I could post you a sim card then you can get data for cheap ;)
<Yagisan> HedgeMage, the major telo increase the cost of the copper cables, so mt isp terminated my contract early
<cbx33> really?
<cbx33> highvoltage, how cheap
<cbx33> how would I pay?
<Yagisan> so I need to buy new adsl hardware within 21 days
<HedgeMage> Yagisan: :(
<highvoltage> cbx33: it only costs R4 for a sim card, which i can send for free. you can top up online with your credit card, i think
<cbx33> wow
<cbx33> how cheap data rates are we talking here?.....is it pa as you go then ?
<highvoltage> mtn is still R1 per mb
<highvoltage> http://www.mtn.co.za/?pid=248769
<highvoltage> their website looks a bit broken though
<highvoltage> 350MB bundle is R220
<highvoltage> that's what you pay about for 2MB :)
<highvoltage> oop no, 20MB
<highvoltage> they are still R2/MB out of bundle. i wonder what virgin will charge if you roam with a .za card there
<Petaris> :(
<Petaris> I installed dapper on one of my servers, and now (durring first boot) it hangs
<Petaris> it won't even let me see what it was trying to do because of the stupid masked boot screen
<ogra> just remove the word splash in grub 
<ogra> i.e. press esc if the grub message shows up, then go to the line you want to edit, press e, remove splash and hit enter, then b
<Petaris> ogra: right, just did
<Petaris> its the fricking drive cache issue again
<Petaris> Why is that issue still in the kernel
<Petaris> it was fixed in 2.6.4
* Petaris bangs head on desk
<Petaris> so now I have to rip out 4 of the 8 GB of RAM to boot
<Petaris> >:(
<cbx33> highvoltage, I would be eternally greatful if you can find me a cheap data solutn :p
<ogra> Petaris, tell that to #ubuntu-kernel 
<ogra> they are the ones to fix it
<cbx33> new sounds
<cbx33> wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuSounds
<cbx33> bbi a few hours
<Petaris> ogra: I went over this with them about 6 months ago
<Petaris> I guess I'll have to go over it again
<ogra> so they should be made aware of it 
<Petaris> This wouldn't be an issue of course if it were possible to build a vanilla kernel for ubuntu
<Petaris> I could just compile one and be done with it
<ogra> i guess its an issue with the default install kernel (386)
<Petaris> but I'm installing an x86_64 kernel
<ogra> if you can boot into the system and upgrade to the 686 one it should be fine
<Petaris> as this is an opteron server
<ogra> then use the arch specific one instead of amd64-generic
<Petaris> how do I do that when I can't get the system to start?
<Petaris> boot up a live cd and chroot or something?
<ogra> if the liveCD boots ...
<ogra> -kernel will really know more ...
<Petaris> I should be able to boot the gentoo install disk I have here then chroot into ubuntu
<Petaris> *I hope
<pygi> hey ^^
<lucasvo> ogra: btw, can't you ask for an update of the sabayon package in dapper?
<LaserJock> lucasvo: what's wrong with it?
<lucasvo> LaserJock: that one has to assign a profile to every user
<LaserJock> and it's fixed in more recent versions?
<lucasvo> see mailing Re: Fine tuning Edubuntu from Oli
<lucasvo> LaserJock: he said it's fixed in edgy
<LaserJock> ah
<LaserJock> sorry, haven't gotten that far in my email
<lucasvo> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/sabayon/+bug/38410
<lucasvo> ah, it's not yet fixed
<LaserJock> "will" be solved :-)
<LaserJock> hmm, it does seem like our ability to lock down is a bit lacking
<lucasvo> yes
<Amaranth> ogra: FIXED!
<Amaranth> Had to change os.seteuid() to os.setuid()
<ogra> yay !!!!!!!!!!!!!111
<lucasvo> Amaranth: that bug you were talking about this morning?
<Amaranth> lucasvo: yeah
<Amaranth> the one i've been fighting for days
<pygi> congrats Amaranth 
<Amaranth> It's funny, I change one character and it fixes it.
<pygi> :)
<Amaranth> OperationalError: attempt to write a readonly database
<Amaranth> arg
<Amaranth> it's a permissions thing
<cbx33> Amaranth, is that the difference between setting the "effective" user id and the "actual" user id?
<Amaranth> yeah
<Amaranth> OperationalError: unable to open database file
<Amaranth> %$##
<lucasvo> good night guys
<cbx33> ping ogra 
#edubuntu 2006-08-02
<HedgeMage> hi mhz 
<mhz> HedgeMage: hi there
<mhz> HedgeMage: can i ask you a favor?
<HedgeMage> mhz: ask away :)
<HedgeMage> what's up?
<mhz> I have no web connection at home now
<mhz> HedgeMage: I am currenetly using a cibercafe
<mhz> HedgeMage: so, I wont be able to be on tomorrows meeting
<mhz> (ciber is not open at 12 UTC)
<HedgeMage> mhz: np, I think it may get cancelled since I just found out the exact date and time today, and it never made it on to the fridge.
<mhz> HedgeMage: could you tell ogra and RichEd that I'll be "back" as sonn as possible?
<HedgeMage> np will do
* HedgeMage hugs you
<HedgeMage> having problems with your net connection at home/work?
<mhz> thank you!
<mhz> nope
<mhz> just can't afford it so far :(
<HedgeMage> ahh
<HedgeMage> understood
<HedgeMage> I'd lend you some of mine but that would have to be one heck of a long cable... ;)
<mhz> hehehe, indeed
<mhz> I'll see if a neighbour lends me wifi access
<mhz> at least a couple of hours a day
<mhz> (mostly emails and IRC)
<bddebian> Howdy
<Burgundavia> hey bddebian
<bddebian> Hi Burg
<bddebian> Err Burgundavia
<Amaranth> yay, fixed it
<Amaranth> hacky fix
<Amaranth> had to chown willowng:willowng /usr/share/willowng because sqlite writes to a temp file then moves to the original DB file
<LaserJock> Amaranth: do you have a bzr/svn repo for alacarte?
<Amaranth> nope, just gnome cvs
<LaserJock> k
<Amaranth> ogra: http://dev.realistanew.com/releases/willowng/0.2/deb-src
<Amaranth> if it doesn't work i'll scream
<pygi> morning
<Amaranth> morning
<eniac_petrov> lunch :-)
<Amaranth> ogra: did you get the link to my source package?
<ogra> yes, sorry, havent had time to look yet ... there is a gnome-screensaver update for dapper i have to check first ... yours is next on my list
<Amaranth> alright
<Amaranth> just making sure it didn't get lost in the 8 hour or so gap :)
<ogra> nah
<ogra> i keep my baclogs ;)
<ogra> *backlogs
<Amaranth> the only thing i can think of that might be a problem is that i chown willowng:willowng /usr/share/willowng in the postinst
<ogra> that should be fine 
<ogra> at least i dont know a policy that forbids it
<Amaranth> alright
<Amaranth> that was a PITA :P
<juliux> hi ogra 
<Amaranth> os.seteuid() != os.setuid() and sqlite writes to a temp file then moves to the db file on commit, took me days to figure those out
<juliux> ogra, do you have an idea why my request for cds are not approved? i have e-mailed marilize and she said yes yes you get the cds but nothing happens
<ogra> dunno, did you try to ask her in -devel ?
<juliux> not yet
<Chipzz> Hi, I was told I could ask questions related to ltsp here
<Chipzz> I'm not exactly using ltsp, but a very similar setup (basically I have everything configured myself)
<Chipzz> I have pxelinux set up correctly, nfs on the server is working fine
<Chipzz> but when the client boots and starts executing the scripts in /etc/rcS.d/, stuff goes haywire
<Chipzz> specifically, something in S10udev makes / go away
<Chipzz> is there before udevplug, but after udevplug runs, it's just gone
<Chipzz> errr
<Chipzz> / is there before udevplug, but after udevplug runs, it's just gone
<ogra> what do you do with that setup ?
<Chipzz> basically starting X and running a pygtk program
<ogra> you could probably just use the ltsp setup and modify it ... thats in many cases easier than fiddling with our oen stuff
<ogra> on the netbooted client ? 
<Chipzz> well I have most of the stuff set up correctly
<Chipzz> yes the pygtk app runs locally on the netbooted client :)
<ogra> thats exactly what we do in ltsp ...
<ogra> we start an X server and run ldm (pygtk based login manager)
<Chipzz> uhu, but ltsp-client depends on ldm | gdm | kdm , which is not what I want
<ogra> ltsp has the functionallity builtin to create the right tmpfs directorys where you need rw access ...
<ogra> or do you export your nfsroot rw ?
<Chipzz> nope, I export it ro
<ogra> if not there will be indeed probs with udev
<ogra> since it will need write access at a certain level ... other apps as well ...
<Chipzz> but the ltsp-client scripts run quite late in the rcS sequence?
<ogra> i'D really go with a default ltsp setup and then modify the chroot
<ogra> nope, the rc sequence is cleaned out by the chroot setup script ...
<Chipzz> can you just tell me what's needed to get udev working, or where to look?
<ogra> there are only a handfull rd scripts left
<ogra> *rc
<ogra> thats rather a question for keybuk ... i have no idea which directories need to be writable for udev ...
<Chipzz> this thing is allmost setup, I think it's 99% done or sth :P
<ogra> how did you create the chroot ? debootstrap ? 
<Chipzz> nope, install on a disk with ubuntu-server install
<ogra> you could have a look at ltsp-build-client in the ltsp source 
<Chipzz> allready did that :)
<ogra> thats our script that creates the chroot and makes the modifications to the dirs
<Chipzz> I also did most of the things that script runs
<Chipzz> I know :)
<ogra> make sure to have the tmpfs ready ... 
<ogra> we use udev umodified in ltsp ...
<Chipzz> unmodified* ?
<ogra> so it must be your base setup where it goes wrong
<ogra> yep
<ogra> the defaulr ubuntu udev ... no tweaks or scripts 
<ogra> *default
<Chipzz> yeah
<Chipzz> I actually tested the ubuntu-server install on a local disk in the client first, and that worked fine ;)
<Chipzz> one thing I do have is I have /tmp as a tmpfs in /etc/fstab
<Chipzz> but that's not mounted yet at the time udev runs in rcS
<ogra> initramfs should have it mounted ...
<Chipzz> ?
<ogra> did you do the tweaks to initramfs we do in ltsp-build-client ? 
<Chipzz> hrrrrm, I should check that
<Chipzz> I tweaked the initrams with the 1 options, ie BOOT=nfs and MODULES=netboot
<ogra> there are some lines that modify initramfs.conf ... look for that 
<Chipzz> s/1/2/
<Chipzz> did that
<ogra> yeah
<Chipzz> also made the symlink /etc/mtab
<ogra> and regenerated the initramfs ?
<Chipzz> jup
<ogra> and copied it to tftpboot ...
<Chipzz> I had some trouble without those lines at first :)
<Chipzz> yup, did all that
<ogra> (also note that we aim to keep compatibility with debian, so some lines are valid for the in that scrip and some for us)
<Chipzz> actually I have my whole chroot in /var/lib/tftpboot
<ogra> and export that ? 
<ogra> heh
<Chipzz> yes
<Chipzz> it's exported via nfs
<ogra> what des the error say you see on the screen ? 
<ogra> do you get dropped into a busybox shell ? 
<Chipzz> something about not being able to find usplash-write
<ogra> oh
<Chipzz> but there's nothing on / at all
<ogra> right, you did a server install :)
<Chipzz> yeah but installed usplash on the client too ;)
<ogra> so you are sure the nfs mount is definatelty working ? and you are not left in initramfs ? 
<Chipzz> I'm sure of that :)
<Chipzz> currently I have modified pxelinux to add init=/bin/bash, so I can debug the issue manually
<ogra> i'd really go with ltsp and add an lts.conf that starts your pygtk script instead of ldm ...
<Chipzz> I have sprinkled some 'ls /' in /etc/init.d/udev, and the last one to work is the one before udevplug
<ogra> instead of reimplementing ltsp by hand :)
<Chipzz> I suspect that somehow I would have the same problem with ltsp though ;)
<ogra> its a matter of 20min work ...
<ogra> why should you ?
<Chipzz> just a feeling
<Chipzz> so, anyway, I should ask keybuk?
<Chipzz> thing is, the chroot for the client is allready set up, and it would take more work to duplicate that again in the ltsp chroot
<Chipzz> but I'll check if the ltsp chroot boots later
<ogra> well, setting up a ltsp chroot if you have a dapper cd around is done in less than 10 min
<Chipzz> ogra: I already have a ltsp chroot set up ;)
<Chipzz> beside the chroot I had earlier
<ogra> creating a lts.conf is a matter of 1min ... and copying your pygtk script into the chroot os taking as long as the cp :)
<ogra> s/os/is/
<ogra> so you should be dont in 20min max ...
<ogra> *done
<Chipzz> uhu, anyway, I currently do not have access to the client anyway (it's in a friends room who'se still asleep, so not much chance of doing anything about it now anyway)
<Chipzz> I guess my main gripe with ltsp-client is the Depends on 'ldm | sdm-terminal | x-display-manager'
<Chipzz> which pulls in a lot of stuff I don't need
<ogra> yes, it will install ldm (some kb) but you can avoid that its been used
<ogra> s/been/being/
<ogra> and you need pygtk anyway ... all ldm pulls in alongside is the clearlooks engine and its deps ... its not really much
<ogra> and diskspace is cheap ... especially on diskless netbooting machines ;)
<Chipzz> *g*
<Chipzz> it's mostly a matter of principles
<Chipzz> I had the other install trimmed down a lot too
<Chipzz> removing unneeded packages etc
<ogra> you could just install sdm ;)
<ogra> it has no big dependencys
<Chipzz> yeah that would most likely be the best choice ;)
<ogra> Depends: openssh-client | ssh-client | ssh, dash, xserver-xorg
<ogra> three deps only ...
<ogra> one is already there anyway
<ogra> err two
<Chipzz> yup I saw that :)
<cbx33> ping highvoltage 
<cbx33> hi guys
<cbx33> how can I prevent my ubuntu from trying to access apt etc when I'm using a dial up connection?
<cbx33> basically I don't want it to access the net work unless I ask it to
<cbx33> it just wasted 80K of my 500K allowance for this month :(
<highvoltage> cbx33: pong, and i feel your pain, btw
<cbx33> grr....
<highvoltage> i usually have about 10MB per month. 500k is hectic
<cbx33> i thought you'd have some clever way round it
<highvoltage> (although, i have more these days now that it's cheaper)
<cbx33> If I update apt, it shouldn't try again should it?
<cbx33> highvoltage: any luck on finding a SIM?
<highvoltage> on the boxes i dial up on, i have my updates completely disabled in /etc/apt/sources.list
<highvoltage> cbx33: yes
<cbx33> highvoltage: that'll do it?
<highvoltage> yep
<highvoltage> update-manager can't update if it doesn't have somewhere to update from :)
<cbx33> so you just comment out everything?
<highvoltage> i have one line in with my own repository, in which i store updates downloaded from another machine
<cbx33> we need a GPRS mode for ubuntu
<highvoltage> but yes, you can comment out everything, then do an apt-get update
<highvoltage> it was pointed out at the summit too
<highvoltage> although it's quite an unsexy problem, so there doesn't seem to be many people interested in fixing it
<highvoltage> brb
<cbx33> heheh
<cbx33> bbl
<pygi> hey RichEd 
<RichEd> just got time for a hi pygi ... working hard today at head office :)
<jsgotangco> good evening
<cbx33> sorry highvoltage had to go home
<cbx33> hey jsgotangco 
<cbx33> howz it going
<jsgotangco> hey cbx33
<jsgotangco> pretty good
<cbx33> :D
<jsgotangco> i had some sushi =)
* cbx33 has never had sushi
<pygi> cbx33, how's music= ;)
<jsgotangco> cbx33: you're missing a lot
<cbx33> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuSounds
<cbx33> pygi, there are three more ideas
<jsgotangco> cbx33: but then i dunno how authentic sushi can be in that area
<cbx33> some ideas came up on the mailing list
<cbx33> so I guess I should try those out too
<cbx33> jsgotangco, hehe
<Chipzz> cbx33: System -> Administration -> Software Sources
<Chipzz> you can disable automagically downloading new packages etc there
<pygi> Chipzz, he cant disable downloading security updates there tho =P
<pygi> well, he can, but he has to remove one package
<pygi> (me forgot how is it called)
<Chipzz> pygi: he can't?
<Chipzz> that's stupid
<pygi> Chipzz, I think he can't :)
<Chipzz> I'm sure he can
<Chipzz> thing is, I can't currently check, since I'm on edgy, and the GUI for that just changed the other day
* Chipzz reboots other laptop in to dapper
<cbx33> ping highvoltage 
<highvoltage> pong cbx33 
<cbx33> pm
<highvoltage> k
<jsgotangco> do we have a meeting?
<cbx33> it's 8UTC today isn't it?
<jsgotangco> yes
<Chipzz> pygi: it seems you can disable it
<Chipzz> pygi: security updates is a seperate option, but only for installing without asking
<bddebian> Hello
<cbx33> http://progbox.co.uk/ubuntu7-1.mp3
<cbx33> hi RichEd 
<cbx33> hi rodarvus 
<rodarvus> hi cbx33 
<cbx33> latest more "organic" " vivid" theme :p
<cbx33> as per a request on the mailing list
<rodarvus> cbx33, I'm asking Jane to join #edubuntu
<cbx33> ok cool
<rodarvus> conversation via msn is too confuse :)
<cbx33> sorry rodarvus 
<rodarvus> she asks me stuff and then pastes conversation between you two
<cbx33> hehe
<rodarvus> much better if we talk here
<cbx33> sorry dude
<rodarvus> cbx33, don't worry :)
<cbx33> RichEd, how was the meeting?
<lucasvo> anybody can tell me how I can finish pending merges in bzr?
<cbx33> lucasvo, i think you commit
<jsgotangco> hey rodarvus :)
<rodarvus> hey jsgotangco :)
<jsgotangco> rodarvus: como e voce?
<rodarvus> cbx33, I'll help Jane configure her irc client during her lunch time (in 30 minutes)
<rodarvus> jsgotangco, tudo bem, e voc?
<cbx33> ok 
<rodarvus> jsgotangco, you almost got it right - our "verb to be" is quite hard to get right
<rodarvus> (and hard to explain too)
<jsgotangco> yeah im struggling hah
<rodarvus> but the right is "como est voc"
<jsgotangco> im like trying to make some sense of the similar spanish words to no avail lol
<rodarvus> jsgotangco, are you really studying portuguese?
<jsgotangco> rodarvus: its an interest, for some reason i cannot explain
<rodarvus> well, it resembles spanish a little
<jsgotangco> rodarvus: hopefully its not because i grew up with my dad playing jazz samba all day when i was a kid
<rodarvus> sou = soy,  = es, est = esta, estamos = estamos, etc
<rodarvus> I have great interest in sino-based languages
<rodarvus> but never got around to study them
<cbx33> brb
<jsgotangco> its probably because my native language has some spanish built-in so its a bit easier for me
<rodarvus> really?
<jsgotangco> sure, my middle name is Santos :)
<rodarvus> haha
<rodarvus> santos is portuguese!
<jsgotangco> my mom has foreign blood
<jsgotangco> but it is so diluted already lol
<ogra> j*s*gotangco :)
<jsgotangco> my surname is actually my grandfather's real name
<rodarvus> oh
<rodarvus> nice
<highvoltage> Burgwork
<cbx33> I'm back !!! :D
<Amaranth> ogra: get a chance to look at the package?
<ogra> Amaranth, not yet, but i romise i'll have it done before the meeting
<ogra> *promise
<Amaranth> alright
<Amaranth> that's in 4 hours, right?
<ogra> 20:00 UTC
<Amaranth> 3 1/2 hours, close enough :)
* Petaris resumes looking at Iceland as a good place to move to
<Petaris> In December 2004 Iceland's population totalled 293.577 people of which around 180.000 lived in the capital, Reykjavik, and surrounding areas.
<Petaris> The perfect place for someone who hates crowds
<Petaris> :)
<LaserJock> depends on how big it is
<Petaris> big enough
<Petaris> The land of the free keeps loosing its freedoms
<Petaris> :/
<LaserJock> Iceland's got to much volcanic activity for my taste
<Petaris> geo-thermal power though
<Petaris> good education system
<Petaris> good health care
<Petaris> no Bush
<rodarvus> Iceland is one of the places I'd like to live on, someday
<rodarvus> Iceland, Norway, Japan and China are my prime candidates
<LaserJock> my chemistry prof in undergrad hiked across Iceland once
<Petaris> Japan would be cool, but too crowded
<Petaris> Norway would be an option though
<Petaris> however with Iceland you can have dual citizenship
<Petaris> You can become an Icelandic citizen but still maintain your US citizenship
<Petaris> *just in case
<LaserJock> I think I'll stick to the US, and maybe New Zealand
<rodarvus> but actually, I don't think it is too easy for one to move to Iceland
<LaserJock> I'm still trying to recover from my first/last international experience
<rodarvus> (unless they have different policies, based on country you're from)
<rodarvus> LaserJock, why "last"?
<ogra> LaserJock, was it this shocking to meet us ? 
<LaserJock> ogra: the people there were great
<rodarvus> yeah, I was wondering that too :P
<LaserJock> the French didn't treat me so well, though ;-)
<ogra> i mean, i know i scared elmo with my shorts ... :)
<LaserJock> hehe
<ogra> but i didnt know about others :)
<LaserJock> highvoltage and I just laughed
<rodarvus> you scared me with your shorts >:-)
<ogra> heh
<rodarvus> just kidding ;)
<highvoltage> LaserJock: how did you know?
<ogra> i promise i'll wear longer ones in wiesbaden
<LaserJock> nah, you should keep the trend
* ogra goes to carry his desk upstairs ...
* highvoltage sees now
<rodarvus> ogra, btw, how do you expect the weather to be in wiesdbaden in 20 days from now?
<LaserJock> I just watched a show on TV about a CEO that has been known to walk around in such atire
<rodarvus> (asking to plan clothes I'll take in my luggage)
<highvoltage> geez, i'm about 40 km's from johannesburg atm, and it's the coldest recordest day in Johannesburg ever
<highvoltage> it even snowed briefly
<highvoltage> (although i didn't see any of it)
<rodarvus> its quite cold in here too, about 7c
<highvoltage> global warming my ass
<highvoltage> :)
<LaserJock> I think I just need to try it a few more times, I was just so thankful to get back to the US
<LaserJock> but a few more dev summits, who knows...
<highvoltage> heh
<LaserJock> if I can go a few times without loosing my laptop or wallet and I'll feel better
<highvoltage> i hope i'll make another dev summit
<Amaranth> highvoltage: we had more 100F days in july here than every before
<Amaranth> 100F is like 40C, i think
<highvoltage> i have to contribute some more first
<highvoltage> it's been real hectic work-wise
<highvoltage> Amaranth: wow
<highvoltage> Amaranth: we have a law here, that if it ever gets 40C, kids don't have to go to school that day
<LaserJock> Amaranth: where are you?
<highvoltage> i heard about that law the first day of school
<highvoltage> and i've watched the temprature every day during summer
<Amaranth> LaserJock: Iowa
<highvoltage> and the warmest it got was 38C once :(
<Amaranth> That's like the middle of the US
<LaserJock> Amaranth: ah yeah, we just got ride of the heat over here in NV
* cbx33 has just seen a first mock of a new edubuntu wallpaper :D
<Amaranth> yeah, it's only 79F right now
<cbx33> Oh and check this out if you're interested in sounds - http://progbox.co.uk/ubuntu7-X-fade.mp3
<LaserJock> Amaranth: we had ~104 for over a week at least
<Petaris> 72 F here
<cbx33> hi LaserJock 
<Amaranth> today the high is supposed to be about 20F lower than yesterday
<LaserJock> yeah
<Amaranth> LaserJock: we had 2 or 3 104F days in a row, a couple 90s before that, and then a couple 100s before that
<Amaranth> nasty heat
<LaserJock> yep
<Amaranth> yesterday was the worst, it rained in the morning so it was really humid
<Amaranth> like 80% relative humidity
<LaserJock> we ended up with a lot of fires, it was so hot and dry that we had big thunderstorms but the rain never made it to the ground
<LaserJock> only the lightning
<highvoltage> geez
<Amaranth> wow
<Amaranth> lots of fires in western nebraska
<cbx33> rodarvus, did ya get anywhere with IRC?
<rodarvus> cbx33, yeah
* rodarvus introduces Janis
<cbx33> ahh....I did wonder :p
<cbx33> Hi Janis 
<rodarvus> Janis is Jane Vita, my wife (and also an accomplished designer)
<LaserJock> ah, sweet
<LaserJock> hi Janis 
<Amaranth> Janis: Welcome!
<rodarvus> Janis' english skills are a bit rusty, so please bear with us :)
<rodarvus> I'll try to help as much as possible
<rodarvus> but I'd like to see Janis working with AliasVegas (and whoever else might be interested) in Edubuntu artwork
<LaserJock> Janis: thanks for letting Rodrigo go to Paris, he was a lot of fun to hang out with :-)
<cbx33> rodarvus, ah, they are already working together :p
<Amaranth> that reminds me, i'm supposed to poke AliasVegas about some icons
<cbx33> oooh Amaranth poke me
<cbx33> I'll let her know
<cbx33> she's making a sandwich right now :p
<Amaranth> heh
<Amaranth> cbx33: I need an icon for WillowNG's config tool
<cbx33> ok cool
<Amaranth> tangoish, if possible :)
<cbx33> noted on her post its
<Amaranth> cbx33: thanks
<Janis> hi...
<Janis> Laser Jock: rodarvus gave me no option
<Janis> hehe
<rodarvus> :)
<ogra> rodarvus, it got a bit colder (~20C atm) but i suspect it will be warm again in 20 days 
<rodarvus> oh, thats sad news :/
<ogra> not as hot as it was the last days though ... (above 35C)
<ogra> its quite unusual for germany that its that hot
<ogra> Hello Oliver,
<ogra> Was reading your use cases regarding LTSP dhcpd configuration. I know a 
<ogra> few people like Fred. Let me know if I can help.
<ogra> Regards,
<ogra> LOL
<ogra> thats nice :)
<ogra> grmbl ... ltsp-build-client for edgy fails 
<ogra> Err http://archive.ubuntu.com edgy/main xserver-xorg-video-chips 1:1.1.1-0ubuntu1                                                                
<ogra>   Error reading from server - read (104 Connection reset by peer) [IP: 82.211.81.182 80] 
<ogra> evil thing ...
* ogra builds a dapper ltsp for the start ...
<LaserJock> oh heah, EC meeting today, right?
<ogra> yup
<LaserJock> do we have any member candidates?
<cbx33> hmmm
* cbx33 hasn't heard of any 
<ogra> not on the agenda it seems
<Yagisan> ?
<Yagisan> If I just turn up do I get membership ?
<LaserJock> no, we have to have some fun first
<Yagisan> oh ?
<Yagisan> um, I turn up, I'm "helpful". I shower daily. anything else ?
<LaserJock> yeah, what's the point of being on the Council if you can't grill people
<pygi> Yagisan, prepare wiki, apply on LP team, bla, bla
<jitj> Would anyone be able to describe how to use Edubuntu with Novell for students to get to their file shares and possibly authentication?  I'm struggling with that part--setting up the clients has been relatively painless.
<ogra> Err http://archive.ubuntu.com edgy/main xserver-xorg-video-chips 1:1.1.1-0ubuntu1 
<ogra>   Error reading from server - read (104 Connection reset by peer) [IP: 82.211.81.151 80] 
<ogra> rodarvus !!
<ogra> whats up with that xserver ?
<rodarvus> you ask me? :)
<ogra> must be your fault :P
<rodarvus> haha
<ogra> grmbl, seems ltsp-build-client doesnt pick up the --dist parameter ... that should have been a dapper chroot
* Yagisan wonders of ogras memory is enough to skip wiki et al tonight, or if he should do it when he's actually awake
<ogra> Yagisan, we need a wiki entry ... if the CC ever comes and asks on which base we approved you ad i just had a brain surgery i wont remember without it ...
<ogra> not that i often have brain surgeries or something :)
<Yagisan> np. I'll (when not half in dreamland) write a nice story for the wiki, that may or may not coincide with your reality, on why I'm an excellent candiate.
<ogra> just list your contributions ... no need for stories ;)
<Yagisan> ah, but there's a story behind each one ;) (usually a bug that bothered me, but still)
* Yagisan falls off to sleep at last
<lucasvo> how comes that I am not subscribed to edubuntu-users list but still get the mails: 
<lucasvo> Is being held until the list moderator can review it for approval.
<lucasvo>     Post by non-member to a members-only list
<cbx33> lucasvo, you havn't got some weird forwardng going on have you
<lucasvo> no
<lucasvo> I subscribed to -dev a long time ago before -users even existed
<lucasvo> but somehow it didn't autosubscribe me to -users
<lucasvo> even though I get the mails
<lucasvo> anyway just manually subscribing fixed it
<LaserJock> ogra: you ever heard of squeakland?
<ogra> nope
<LaserJock> it's supposed to be educational squeak
<ogra_thin> meep meep
<cbx33> ogra, if I wanted to talk about the new sounds I'm developing to the ubunut peeps
<LaserJock> and they have source packages
<ogra_thin> ah
<cbx33> where is the best place to do that
<cbx33> is there a meeting which is appropriate>
<cbx33> ?
<LaserJock> cbx33: the art list isn't sufficent?
<cbx33> probably
<cbx33> i dunno, I suppose......meh nevermind
<cbx33> I'm just keen to get the level of feedback required to get them into ubuntu
<LaserJock> heh, I don't think feedback really matters a whole lot
<cbx33> oh well
<cbx33> LaserJock, I'm just concious of how it will be judged if they are good enough 
<LaserJock> ogra: http://www.squeakland.org/school/drive_a_car/html/Drivecar12.html
<cbx33> feedback from community is the only thing I can think of
<cbx33> apart from someone on high saying...they're crap m8
<cbx33> does that make sense
<LaserJock> sure
<LaserJock> but if you ask for feedback to the community at large I don't think you will learn much
<cbx33> I did learn a lot
<cbx33> don;t ask cos you won;t get anything :p
<LaserJock> some people won't like, some people will love it, and somebody will grab it and say it was there idea first ;-)
<cbx33> heheh true
<cbx33> I'm quite happy with the latest sound
<LaserJock> anyway, I know what you mean though
<LaserJock> what's the URL?
<cbx33> http://progbox.co.uk/ubuntu7-X-fade-rev.mp3
<cbx33> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuSounds
<cbx33> there is a ink to them all there
<ogra_thin> LaserJock, looks cool, do you know which license they use ?
<LaserJock> cbx33: sweet!!!
<cbx33> LaserJock, hehe - I kinda like the opening your eyes and ears as you load ubuntu
<cbx33> like moving to a higher level of quality
<LaserJock> ogra_thin: I think it is just a squeak image that runs on the squeak vm
<ogra_thin> to sad ... so it will also end up in multiverse 
<cbx33> right
<ogra_thin> i wish they would reconsider the licensing at apple
<LaserJock> yeah
<cbx33> I'm off to do the dishes before the meeting
<LaserJock> it really looks cool
* ogra_thin is looking at willowng now
<Amaranth> yay
<Amaranth> my client beeps when you say willowng
<ogra_thin> hehe
<LaserJock> ogra_thin: hehe, the website says: "Squeak is Free, with a Liberal License:
<ogra_thin> i still highlight on hwdb ....
<ogra_thin> and some idiot tells people to test their sound by playing /usr/share/hwdb-client/ping.wav IN #UBUNTU ALL THE TIME
<ogra_thin> eek
<ogra_thin> sorry for the caps
<ogra_thin> ah, damned, i cant reboot atm ...
<ogra_thin> and restarting dbus isnt an option either currently
<ogra_thin> Amaranth, the package seems fine to me, but i'll have to wait with the reboot/dbus restart until after the meeting :(
<Amaranth> ogra_thin: pfft, just sudo /etc/dbus-1/event.d/99willowng start :)
<Amaranth> don't need dbus to do all the work for you :)
<ogra_thin> heh, true
<ogra_thin> sorry i'm a bit distracted today with all the room setup here
<ogra_thin> hmm, port 8563 ?
<ogra_thin> ok, seems to work ;)
<Amaranth> does the GUI work?
<ogra_thin> Amaranth, kudos !
<ogra_thin> works great (at least for domain filter which i just tried
<ogra_thin> )
<Amaranth> yay
<ogra_thin> (even from this thin client !)
<Amaranth> you know, i just realized something, i don't think i ever tested my changes to the bayesian filter
<ogra_thin> while using the gui on the server 
<ogra_thin> you still have plenty of time for that 
<ogra_thin> the package is really awesome 
<ogra_thin> well done !
<Amaranth> haha, it doesn't work
<Amaranth> NameError: global name 'urllib2' is not defined
<Amaranth> ogra_thin: I don't know how to make it install the training.db but not overwrite it on upgrades.
<ogra_thin> thats a bug ... can be fixed later ... lets upload that stuff :)
<LaserJock> hehe
<ogra_thin> uploaded
<Amaranth> cool
<cbx33> congrats Amaranth 
<ogra_thin> ********* REMINDER EDUBUNTU MEETING in #ubuntu-meeting in 7 mins ************
<lucasvo> ah, it's allready today?
<lucasvo> cool
<pygi> ogra, bleh, now you tell me :P
<cbx33> ogra_thin, what happened to the fibbonaci sequence :p
<ogra_thin> ********* REMINDER EDUBUNTU MEETING in #ubuntu-meeting in 6 mins ************
<ogra_thin> (for cbx33 )
<pygi> ogra_thin, wait 'till I eat :)
<cbx33> heheh
<cbx33> ogra, did you hear the new sound?
<cbx33> it's more.....organic like you wanted :p
<cbx33> http://progbox.co.uk/ubuntu7-X-fade-rev.mp3
<ogra_thin> not yet (i havent sound enabled here atm)
<cbx33> ah hoky
<cbx33> do you mind if I add sound to the agenda?
<pygi> cbx33, don't use that sound pls :P
<lucasvo> cbx33: nice
<lucasvo> cbx33: is it a startup sound?
<pygi> altought I don't care, as I have sound disabled :P
<ogra_thin> ********* REMINDER EDUBUNTU MEETING in #ubuntu-meeting in 3 mins ************
<cbx33> lucasvo, yes
<lucasvo> cbx33: in that case, I would make the fading at the beginning more slowly
<highvoltage> ogra_thin: lost weight?
<ogra_thin> highvoltage, yeah i have a client :P
<cbx33> lucasvo, yes, it's not a finished product yet :p
<highvoltage> *g*
<ogra_thin> ********* REMINDER EDUBUNTU MEETING in #ubuntu-meeting in 1 min ************
<ogra_thin> ********* REMINDER EDUBUNTU MEETING in #ubuntu-meeting in NOW !!! ************
<pygi> ogra, my dinner :(
<ogra_thin> pygi, eat on schedule *shrug* :)
* pygi eats ogra_thin :)
<lucasvo> pygi: why, he's thin, not fat... :) I would rather eat something else. 
<cbx33> quick question, how much load does it take to run an app over SSH?
<cbx33> like just the X front end?
<cbx33> I'm new to this
<cbx33> I have a mchine which does all the grunt work, but I want to use a laptop to run the GUI for a program
<cbx33> but the program will be running on the grunt machine
<cbx33> how would I do that
<Amaranth> your local x server does all the display work
<Amaranth> but the remote machine would do the rest of the processing
<crimsun> ssh -X, generally.
<cbx33> hmmm
<cbx33> I'll tell you the application.....it's in my recording studio
<cbx33> I hate turning round whilst playing my keyboard to see the screen.
<cbx33> I can't move the pc
<cbx33> so I wanted to rig a laptop to display the multitrack recording software screen
<cbx33> but it must be VERY low resource usage
<crimsun> I presume you're running the recording software on the laptop? Does the laptop run Linux?
<cbx33> the the recording software is on the grunt machine
<cbx33> power hungry
<cbx33> all the laptop woudl be for is a remote terminal
<cbx33> would VNC or RDC be ok?
<cbx33> or too power hungry?
<crimsun> from experience you want to avoid shoving a network connection onto the machine running the recording software
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> any other method
<cbx33> I can't move my screen or pc for the recording machine
<crimsun> really long vga cable + another monitor.
<cbx33> yeh swat I thought you'd say
<cbx33> was hoping we had a cool linux work around
<crimsun> seriously, with the network card spewing interrupts, your recording software will bear the grunt
<cbx33> yeh
<cbx33> true
<cbx33> thanks crimsun 
<crimsun> np
<cbx33> you're stopped me from wasting an afternoon
<Amaranth> LaserJock: Seriously, create a team for that.
<LaserJock> on LP?
<Amaranth> yeah
<LaserJock> k, gallium germanium gold and gadolinium are the elements that start with "g"
<highvoltage> gallium sounds nicest, imho
<Amaranth> yeah
<highvoltage> easy to spell and nice excutable
* highvoltage > bed
<juliux> gn8 highvoltage 
<Amaranth> pygi: $2.19!
<pygi> Amaranth, #3
<highvoltage> night juliux!
<pygi> $3
<Amaranth> $3.14
<pygi> $3.15
<Amaranth> you fail
<ogra_thin> heh
<pygi> wth? you fail :)
<Amaranth> pi
<juliux> i think we need a bot for that ;)
<pygi> Amaranth, you are not very precise :P
<pygi> 3.14 is a long distance from pi :P
<Amaranth> pygi: You were supposed to extend the precision.
<lucasvo> the xml data of kalzium is very easy indeed: 
<lucasvo>   <element>
<lucasvo>                 <number>1</number>
<lucasvo>                 <name origin="Greek 'hydro' and 'gennao' for 'forms water'">Hydrogen</name>
* pygi has some upstream build-system problems, while ubuntu/debian packages seem to work
* pygi is very confused
<Amaranth> lucasvo: all we need is a renderer :)
<lucasvo> Amaranth: yes
<cbx33> Amaranth, know how we can emulate the hovering bubbles of kalzium with python and gtk?
* lucasvo will read a pygtk tutorial for starters
<Amaranth> cbx33: I imagine that'll be a port of Qt Canvas to PyCairo
<ogra_thin> Amaranth, you'll need functions ...
<Amaranth> like rodarvus said
<Amaranth> s/of/from/
<lucasvo> https://launchpad.net/products/gallium
<ogra_thin> i.e. kalzium has a cool feature with a time scale that shows the table based on when which element was discovered
<ogra_thin> or based on melting point etc
<lucasvo> Amaranth: did you do that?
<Amaranth> ah
<Amaranth> lucasvo: LaserJock
<lucasvo> ah.
<cbx33> Amaranth, is PyCairo easy to use?
<Amaranth> ogra_thin: Shouldn't be too hard. :)
<ogra_thin> right
<Amaranth> cbx33: I wouldn't say yes. :)
<cbx33> I'm sure we can knock soemthing up
<ogra_thin> but there are a *lot* of such cool small features
<Amaranth> ogra_thin: That'll be easy compared to the element model.
<Amaranth> ogra_thin: It'll probably take 9 months to get most of it.
<Amaranth> ogra_thin: I hope we can have something useful as a replacement default in time for edgy+1 though.
<Amaranth> wait, that is like 9 months from now :P
<cbx33> Amaranth, element model?
<pygi> Amaranth, just get a lot of contributors
<rodarvus> PyCairo is as easy as a Canvas library can be
<Amaranth> cbx33: the fancy diagram of the element, weren't you just talking about it?
<rodarvus> which is saying a lot about it
<cbx33> ah
<ogra_thin> Amaranth, well, first concentrate on the (un)paied work ;)
<ogra_thin> Amaranth, btw, did they deliver finally ?
<rodarvus> but the good news is that you won't have to "create" everything from scratch
<Amaranth> ogra_thin: nope
<LaserJock> https://launchpad.net/people/gallium-dev
<rodarvus> you'll be able to base your work on the algorithms and ideas which already exist in Kalzium
<Amaranth> ogra_thin: supposed to be fedexing a batch of checks directly from mountain view today
* ogra_thin puts a note on his TODO to stress google
<Amaranth> ogra_thin: dunno if mine will be in that batch
<ogra_thin> Amaranth, please tell me tomorrow if anything arrived
<Amaranth> i'm not home but i'll find a way to check
<ogra_thin> you deliver good work ... that should be paied
<ogra_thin> especially since they promised
<ogra_thin> ...severeral times
<rodarvus> ok, I need to leave for a while
* ogra_thin got his t-shirt for the last SoC 6 months belated fwiw
<rodarvus> family time
<rodarvus> I'll be back in a bunch of hours
<lucasvo> LaserJock: you here?
<rodarvus> (after dinner)
<LaserJock> lucasvo: yes
<lucasvo> LaserJock: can you create a team with the devs and add me?
* ogra_thin goes downstairs ...
<LaserJock> lucasvo: I did, I though
<LaserJock> t
<Amaranth> oh man, another programming language that has it's compiler written in itself
<Amaranth> those are a pain to bootstrap
<Amaranth> or maybe i'm misunderstanding this guy
<lucasvo> LaserJock: yes you did, indeed.
<lucasvo> How should we start?
<Amaranth> lucasvo: specs
<lucasvo> Should I spec the XML files?
<Amaranth> lucasvo: we need an interpreter for the data (i'm pretty good with xml parsing), and a feature list for the first release
<lucasvo> should we notify the Kalzium devs?
<lucasvo> Amaranth: ok, in that case you can do it
* lucasvo is not good in xml parsing at all
<Amaranth> lucasvo: You can write the specs. :)
<lucasvo> :(
* lucasvo wants to code
* lucasvo will first learn pygtk
<Amaranth> what are the main features of kalzium that we want in a release say, 2 months fron now?
<cbx33> lucasvo, gisomount was my first packaging pygtk
<cbx33> progbox.co.uk/gisomount
<lucasvo> periodic table view, detailview
<lucasvo> cbx33: yes I know it. :)
<cbx33> Amaranth, hovering bubbles :p
<Amaranth> haha
<LaserJock> yeah, I think the 3 things are:
<Amaranth> i'd say we want to have the periodic table and the info about the elements
<LaserJock> 1)periodic view (with traditional layout)
<LaserJock> 2) info view with all the nice chemical details
<lucasvo> should I create a milestone?
<Amaranth> kalzium is so slow...
<LaserJock> 3) bubbly type thing (can we do a rollover?)
<cbx33> LaserJock, we discussed, probably with pyCairo
<LaserJock> 3) is nice but probably not neccesary for first release
<Amaranth> the bubbly thing is not neccesary right away
<Amaranth> we can probably just use a popup for it
<LaserJock> basically, get take kalzium's data and make it not look like crap
<cbx33> we could always have hover and it changes a box in the corner
<cbx33> like an info box
<cbx33> that'd work right?
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> you basically need 3 levels of info
<lucasvo> cbx33: ++
<LaserJock> 1) generally layout of the periodic table (what row, or period is something in)
<cbx33> Amaranth, is the plan to build the UI in glade
<cbx33> and put in all the leemtns
<cbx33> elemtsn
<LaserJock> 2) basic data like molecular weight
<LaserJock> 3) all the gorey details
<cbx33> or have a clever algorithm....that will create the periodic table for us?
<Amaranth> cbx33: the UI will be built in glade but the table will be dynamic
<Amaranth> btw, i own #gallium
<cbx33> thought you'd say that :p
<lucasvo> ->#gallium
#edubuntu 2006-08-03
<gtek_> Help, i have loaded the newest version of edubuntu, and connect my pcs now converted into thin clients which all have nics with programmed EEprom that contain Pixieboot. for some reason after the install the thin client could not see the server. No protocal found....
<gtek_> I followed the precedure the the letter and used the default configuration listed in teh documentation. If i am using the default setup should it work ?
<lucasvo> gtek_: Do you know if Pixiboot is supported by Edubuntu?
<lucasvo> gtek_: what means standard configuration?
<lucasvo> gtek_: did you setup the dhcp configuration?
<lucasvo> ah, pixie->pxe
<lucasvo> gtek_: what is the exact error you get?
<netrix> some said i should ask this here so here goes.
<netrix> i am trying to create a system for diskless clients using dapper like the one described here: http://www.math.ucdavis.edu/~zjohnson/howto/diskless_ubuntu.html
<netrix> i have some extra nfs stuff i need to mount so i put it in fstab.
<netrix> but it doesn't mount.  it gets stuck saying "waiting for /whatever/dir" 
<netrix> after the client boots if i do mount -a it mounts fine.
<netrix> i should say it timesout for a long time, not that it gets stuck.
<gtek_> thats a good question, I was under the impression that pxe boot was a default standard for thin clients, as the k12ltsp is based on pxe boot
<gtek_> yes i did make sure that the dhcp server was setup. I used the default configuration with the standard IP address of 192.168.0.1-254
<gtek_> i also used 2 NICs
<gtek_> the Edubuntu documentation states clearly that if you follow their recommendations your system should be up and running
<lucasvo> gtek_: can you paste the output of ifconfig, the dhcpd.conf(the one in /etc/ltsp/) and the output at the thinclient boot process
<lucasvo> netrix: does mounting work when you restart the workstation?
<netrix> lucasvo: no it doesn't.  when rebooted it acts the same way, can't mount them during boot but after logging in sudo mount -a works fine.
<lucasvo> netrix: well, I can't help you with that. Try asking in an ntfs channel.
<lucasvo> It is not really related to ltsp
<netrix> okay.
<netrix> it wasn't ntfs tho.  it was nfs.
<netrix> i figured it was a tough question ... but thought i'd ask just in case.
<lucasvo> yeas, I mean nfs
<lucasvo> it's very late here, I'm a bit tired
<netrix> np. thanx anyways.
<Amaranth> netrix: I believe things get mounted on startup _before_ the network is brought up
<lucasvo> Amaranth: where do you live, btw?
<Amaranth> netrix: so putting things in /etc/fstab to automount nfs probably won't work
<Amaranth> lucasvo: iowa, it's in the middle of the US
<lucasvo> oh, that's why you're up so "late" :)
<Amaranth> heh
<Amaranth> 1900 here
<lucasvo> I got go now
<Amaranth> bye
<lucasvo> 02:00 here :)
<lucasvo> good night
<netrix> Amaranth: but with diskless clients the network is already up when it's booting.
<Amaranth> netrix: that's a tough one
<netrix> Amaranth: i know. :)
<Amaranth> netrix: I've never run edubuntu in any form before, sorry.
<Amaranth> I just make things. :)
<netrix> i mucked around with ltsp, but i need to build something for fat clients, not thin ones.
<netrix> oh well i'll keep mucking with it ... it's a good way to learn suff anyways.
<Chipzz> ogra_thin: in case you were wondering, I found out what the problem was
<Chipzz> ogra_thin: I had eth0 configured and set to auto in /etc/network/interfaces, and when udev detected the NIC it tried to configure it (while it allready *was* configured), and kabooom
<netrix> Chipzz: i take you had to comment it out and just have a entry in interfaces for lo?
<Chipzz> netrix: yes
<mhz> hi all
<LaserJock> hi mhz 
<mhz> LaserJock: hi there
<mhz> I am trying to upload a wallpaper for Edubuntu
<mhz> but I dont see any propoer link for it at a.u.c 
<mhz> any URL
<mhz> ?
<mhz> http://art.ubuntu.com/account.php is broken
<Amaranth> LaserJock: see my periodic table?
<Amaranth> http://www.realistanew.com/random/gallium/table.png
<mhz> Amaranth: sorry, I saw it...
<mhz> cool
<mhz> Python rulz
<jsgotangco> compiz!
<jsgotangco> burn!
<jsgotangco> :)
<mhz> ??
<LaserJock> Amaranth: very, very cool
<Amaranth> jsgotangco: nvidia + xorg 7.1 == xgl/compiz or no text
<jsgotangco> :D
<Amaranth> well, i could just do xgl and metacity but if i'm going to kill battery running xgl i might as well get the bling too
<Amaranth> i turned off everything that wasn't regular window management though
<jsgotangco> how is it?
<Amaranth> it's goofy, you have to have plugins for resize, move, minimize, etc
<Amaranth> not bad
<jsgotangco> its been a while since i played with my rig
<bddebian> Heya
<Cornellius> Hello
<lecaros> holas
<Cornellius> 'lo
<Amaranth> ogra: http://www.realistanew.com/random/gallium/table_color.png
<ogra> wow !
<ogra> thats based on the kalzium data ?
<Amaranth> yeah
<ogra> nice !
<Amaranth> reading the data.xml from kalzium and rendering it using cairo
<Amaranth> btw, cairo is fscking nice
<ogra> yep
<ogra> i wanted to base the next hwdb client implementation on it :)
<Burgundavia> ogra: are you going to get some time to work on that in edgy+1?
<Burgundavia> would be nice to have a the hardware testing stuff have a nice backend
<ogra> Burgundavia, i'll do some bugfix work in edgy already 
<Burgundavia> too bad nobody in the community has picked it up
<ogra> and i hope i can start with a new implemetation after feature freeze ... so i can finish it in edgy+1
<Burgundavia> maybe the need isn't known
<Burgundavia> in other, more random news: http://wildbill.nulldevice.net/wordpress/?p=177
<ogra> intel picked it up ... thats enough ;)
<Burgundavia> intel?
<ogra> yup
<ogra> they build a DB backend
<ogra> thats mostly what i'm doing the edgy changes for
<Burgundavia> very cool
<Burgundavia> this db could be used for a better client?
<ogra> yep
<Burgundavia> I am really keen to get laptop testing off the wiki
<ogra> they do a bit more than we want though 
<cbx33> Mornin
<Burgundavia> morning cbx33
<jsgotangco> they have all the existing data heh
<cbx33> I have a machine that needs to be made into a large scale ftp server 500+ users, sothey can upload data to a "webserver", I wanted to make this box an edubuntu server too
<cbx33> it's a sempron 2800
<cbx33> 1Gb RAM
<cbx33> think it'll handle it?
<cbx33> there won;t be many edubuntu clients at the moment
<cbx33> but it's got to be better than running it off a laptop
* ogra has run 2000 domains on a dual PII 233 with 256MB ... 
<cbx33> heheh
<cbx33> point taken
<ogra> worked fine back then
<cbx33> but this will be an ltsp server too
<ogra> (that was ~2000)
<ogra> oh
<cbx33> how are you this mornin ogra 
<ogra> busy (meeting)
<cbx33> sorry dude
<cbx33> anyone here got a sony W810 phone?
<Amaranth> totally forgot about the meeting
<Amaranth> didn't think i'd be awake
* cbx33 is gonna create an ubuntu theme for it...... :)
<jsgotangco> heh i only have a K600i
<cbx33> mornin Amaranth 
<jsgotangco> we made a theme before
<jsgotangco> but i deleted it
<Amaranth> morning
<cbx33> hahhe
<jsgotangco> but its sucky just the logo and the colours
<cbx33> heheh
<cbx33> ogra: is there a bug in the edubuntu install, if yoiu don;t hve a hdd it just hangs there
<Burgundavia> morning pygi
<pygi> hey Burgundavia :)
<cbx33> mornin mr pygi 
<pygi> cbx33, :)
<pygi> how are you Burgundavia, cbx33 ? :)
<cbx33> hi RichEd 
<Burgundavia> pygi: not bad. about to go to sleep
<Burgundavia> morning RichEd
<cbx33> pygi: I'm good, looking forward to some more studio time this afternoon
<pygi> cbx33, you and your studio :P
<RichEd> hi all ...
<pygi> morning RichEd 
<RichEd> cbx : jane & I sit togegther for marketing today - conferences is on the agenda
<ogra> cbx33, well, where should it install to without HD ?
<RichEd> hi ogra - aplologies for not being at the meeting last night 
<ogra> heh, dont apologize ... youre travelling ... :)
<ogra> you surely have better stuff to do in your evenings atm :)
<Amaranth> so we're dropping kde langpacks?
<ogra> only -en
<RichEd> thanks ... anything exciting happen ? things i should be aware of ?
<ogra> which gains us 2M
<Amaranth> that's the only one on the cd, i thought
<ogra> on the install CD, yes
<ogra> the live CD has about 6 or 8 langs
<Amaranth> oh
<ogra> RichEd, not really ... it was a quite chaotic meeting as well this time 
<cbx33> ogra: of course, but I would expect from a usability point of view for it to pop up and tell me
<ogra> cbx33, file a bug then :) against d-i
<cbx33> RichEd: any news
<RichEd> RichEd> cbx : jane & I sit togegther for marketing today - conferences is on the agenda
<RichEd> missed the 33 part ^^^^
<jsgotangco> hey RichEd
<cbx33> ah hokey dokey 
<RichEd> okay ... will be quiet for a while now ... meetings etc. will check bak here evey now & then
<RichEd> back
<jsgotangco> ciao
<cbx33> ust done a fresh install of edubuntu
<cbx33> and the screen res is 640x480
<cbx33> in xorg.conf there are higher reses
<cbx33> is it the monitor that it limiting it
<juliux> hi cbx33 
<juliux> cbx33, do you have a link for the last sound?
<MrGreen> Err like can I remove drive icons from desktop?
<cbx33> juliux: sure
<cbx33> bottom one here
<cbx33> wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuSounds
<cbx33> X fade rev I think
<MrGreen> sorry am I on the worng channel?
<MrGreen> *wrong
<cbx33> MrGreen: if it's an edubuntu questions
<cbx33> then no :p
<juliux> cbx33, Piano Test Outro is great
<MrGreen> ok
<MrGreen> lol
<cbx33> MrGreen: right click on the desktop
<cbx33> then goto configure desktop
<MrGreen> ahhh
<cbx33> whoops
<MrGreen> cannot be that easy lol
<cbx33> it's not there anymore is it
<MrGreen> I am sorry I will search forums .... just that I do not want drives to get mounted 
<MrGreen> by mistake
<cbx33> yeh
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> I got it
* MrGreen smacks drive icons with hammer
<cbx33> hang on just testing
<cbx33> juliux: you think?
<juliux> cbx33, piano test outro is the best 
<lucasvo> lol, now I am subscribed to edubuntu-users twice
<cbx33> MrGreen: you ready?
<MrGreen> yup!
<cbx33> is it all volume icons you want removeD?
<MrGreen> yeah 
<MrGreen> yeah
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> you used terminal before?
<MrGreen> dude I live in a term lol
<cbx33> :D
<cbx33> run gconf-editor as root
* MrGreen loves cbx33 very much
<cbx33> then go into apps -> nautilus -> desktop
<MrGreen> ok
<cbx33> down the bottom there should be an option for volumes
<MrGreen> ok
<cbx33> volumes_visible
<MrGreen> ahhh
<MrGreen> thanks man
<cbx33> do you want it just for the current user?
* MrGreen passes cbx33 a beeer
* cbx33 drinks thebeer
<MrGreen> I do not mind automounting thats ok
<cbx33> ok
<MrGreen> but I did not want drives on desktop
<cbx33> maybe don;t run it as root?
<MrGreen> cool
<cbx33> then it'll edit your local gconf settins
<MrGreen> sudo -i
<MrGreen> not!
<MrGreen> do not have a problem using ed/unbuntu just little things I like to tweak
<MrGreen> (a.k.a mess up!)
<cbx33> ;)
<cbx33> we all like to tweak
<MrGreen> don't get caught
<MrGreen> later dude
<MrGreen> thanks again
<cbx33> juliux: what about the latest one?
<Amaranth> !fixres > cbx33
<juliux> cbx33, its also not bed but i think this is more for an computer game
<cbx33> heheh
<cbx33> ogra: why do we get double fade outs on screensavers?
<ogra> cbx33, dapper or edgy ?
<cbx33> dapper
<ogra> with the screensaver from -updates ?
<cbx33> standard edubuntu install
<cbx33> fresh
<ogra> please install the updates then
<ogra> even though upstream was confident it was fixed in the shipped version as well 
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> ty ogra 
<cbx33> will try that tomorrow
<Petaris> Morning all
<bddebian> Morning
<cbx33> mornin bddebian 
<bddebian> Hello cbx33
<cbx33> ping ogra 
<cbx33> cancel ping
<jsgotangco> lol
<Petaris> maybe I should just reinstall this box
<Petaris> ogra: Is it still wise to use dapper over edgy for production stuff?
<Petaris> *yes I know edgy isn't released until October
<ogra> edgy wont even work atm
<Petaris> ak
<ogra> i'm currently fixing the ltsp package
<Petaris> niether does dapper with this kernel issue
<Petaris> I'll try reinstalling
<ogra> (after next upload edgy should be usable, but there are no big changes over dapper yet from a user POV)
<Petaris> ogra: ok
<ogra> the code changed majorly though :)
<Petaris> heh
<cbx33> does anyone have a large screenshot of the edubuntu login screen to hand?
<Petaris> ogra_: When will the next edgy upload be?
<ogra_> if i'm done fixing package bugs here 
<ogra_> likely today (CEST)
<Petaris> ok
<cbx33> can't believe I can just plugin my bluetooth dongle and it works :D
<Petaris> cbx33: When did you get a mac?
* Petaris ducks
<Petaris> haha
<cbx33> hehe
<Petaris> cbx33: Check these out  http://tv.truenuff.com/mac/
<Petaris> they have spoofs of the new mac commercials
<cbx33> hi HedgeMage 
<HedgeMage> hi cbx33, how's life?
<cbx33> good
<cbx33> wanted to as kyou
<cbx33> you remember when I was trying to connect with GPRS to freenode beofre and it timed out
<cbx33> and we said about me having a slow GPRS connection
<cbx33> well Ihave a class 10 and it still doesn't work
<HedgeMage> cbx33: that's weird.  If I were you, I'd try pinging bearperson or alindeman about it... I'm not on staff here any more, and they're better at that stuff anyway.
<cbx33> oh
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> ty
<lucasvo> cbx33: maybe it's your ISP who doesn't like irc
<cbx33> possibly
<cbx33> actually no
<cbx33> I can connect to blitzed fine
<`Leah> hi im trying to install edubuntu alongside my current windows setup, (without touching windows files)
<`Leah> on the partioner it says, "resize IDE1 and use freed space to install ubuntu" does that mean it'l use the free space currently on IDE1 or would it delete some windows files to make space?
<Petaris> 'Leah: Why not just do the partitioning manually, then you know for sure where its going?
<`Leah> because there's loads of partitions, im not sure which ones are which
<Petaris> er, that was for you `Leah
<Petaris> ahh
<Petaris> Is the entire disk filled already?
<`Leah> i didnt create them, came with pc
<`Leah> nope
<`Leah> Is IDE1 normally the main partition?
<`Leah> because thats what it wants to free up space on
<Petaris> let me re-phrase that, are there already partionons filling the disk or is there non-partitioned space left
<Petaris> ide1 is the disk itself
<Petaris> otherwise know as /dev/hda1
<Petaris> or /dev/sda1 if its scsi or sata
<`Leah> ok let me sign on from the pc im installing it on
<`Leah> brb
<`Leah> hi
<Petaris> hi
<`Leah> ok on /dev/hda there are 5 partitions: /dev/hd1 , /dev/hd2 , /dev/hd3 (extended) and /dev/hd5
<`Leah> /dev/hd5 is the largest, 12.43mb used, 30.27gb free
<cbx33> Petaris, those were funny videos
<Petaris> cbx33: :)
<`Leah> /dev/hd2 is actually bigger than hd5
<`Leah> i also think that windows is installed on that partition
<Petaris> `Leah: Unless you know whats on those partitions I would hesitate to do anything as it sounds like you don't have an non-partitioned space
<`Leah> /dev/hd2: 19.16GB used , 18:10GB free
<Petaris> `Leah: it should be /dev/hda2 no?
<`Leah> yes, i think that windows is installed there
<`Leah> because used on /dev/hd1 is 5.55GB, which is too small for windows, correct?
<Petaris> What version of win?
<`Leah> XP
<`Leah> Home
<Petaris> hrm
<`Leah> and /dev/hd5 is used 12.43MB which is too small
<Petaris> I'm not sure why all the partitions but I would assume one of them is a maintinace or restore partion of some sort
<`Leah> so the only once where it can be installed is hd2 if im not mistaken
<`Leah> /dev/hd3 (extended) size: 30.28GB used: --- free: 555 type: lba
<`Leah> dunno what thats for
<`Leah> free: --- *
<Petaris> `Leah: fdisk /dev/hda
<Petaris> then do a "p" to print the partions
<`Leah> Unable to open: /dev/hda
<Petaris> use a paste service to post the results
<Petaris> really?
<Petaris> hrm
<`Leah> yup
<`Leah> im on live
<`Leah> does that make a difference?
<Petaris> not sure
<Petaris> try /dev/hd
<`Leah> do you know how much space win xp home takes up?
<Petaris> or /dev/sda1
<`Leah> same result for both of those
<Petaris> it depends on what you have installed
<Petaris> then something is odd
<`Leah> but how much does the base use?
<Petaris> depends what you installed
<Petaris> or removed
<`Leah> k
<Petaris> I would guess anywhere from 400MB to 800MB
<Petaris> but I could be off there
<Cornellius> When I installed XP on my 250 Gig, I created a 115 Gig NTFS partion for XP and installed Linux on the other partion as ext3.
<Petaris> mine are all custom tweaked and had games and other junk removed
<`Leah> /dev/hd5 (ntfs) should be ok to install on right?
<Petaris> no
<Petaris> you can't install on ntfs
<`Leah> k
<`Leah> so what do i install it on?
<Petaris> and anyway you will nee linux partitions
<`Leah> but i mean, to make a linux partion on
<`Leah> that should be ok
<Petaris> non, it tries to resize them
<`Leah> free: 30.27GB
<`Leah> cant i make a linux partition to install it on?
<Petaris> you can't make a partition on another partition
<`Leah> but resize on, to make another
<Petaris> if it knows how to resize ntfs
<Petaris> sure
<`Leah> this is too confuzing for me :/
<`Leah> maybe should get someone to do it for me
<`Leah> i did it before, just installing over everything on a old pc
<`Leah> but i need windows on this one
<Petaris> `Leah: use vmware
<`Leah> whats that?
<`Leah> for windows?
<Petaris> or find a second hard drive
<Petaris> http://www.vmware.com/
<Petaris> hey, when did emc buy vmware?
<`Leah> not sure
<`Leah> :P
<`Leah> hmm
<`Leah> ok thanks guys
<`Leah>  i think ill get someone more experienced to do it for me
<`Leah> :)
<Petaris> well that was confusing
<Petaris> I think some of those partitions were from the livecd and were just ram disks
<cbx33> hi LaserJock 
<LaserJock> HedgeMage: ping?
<LaserJock> cbx33: hi!
<iloadmin> I am using Xubuntu with ltsp installation by default
<iloadmin> I am havin issues with logins not working from the thin clients
<crimsun> (redirected here by me)
<iloadmin> thanks man 
<lucasvo> iloadmin: since when doesn't it work(any specific action)?
<iloadmin> ok it boots up 
<lucasvo> does the login work on the server?
<iloadmin> I just recently installed XUBUNTU with ltsp 
<iloadmin> yes
<iloadmin> it works in the server
<lucasvo> iloadmin: the thin client boots correctly?
<iloadmin> yes it asks for a username and password
<lucasvo> and then, what happens?
<iloadmin> does not log in
<iloadmin> it goes back to the login prompt
<lucasvo> try sudo ltsp-update-sshkeys  (on the server)
<lucasvo> then reboot the client
<iloadmin> ok 
<lucasvo> iloadmin: did it ever work, the login?
<iloadmin> i am rebooting
<iloadmin> thanks a million 
<lucasvo> iloadmin: worked?
<iloadmin> yes
* lucasvo was guessing, though he remembered ogra telling this several people
<iloadmin> cool man 
<iloadmin> thanks a million 
<lucasvo> ogra_: will bug 34118 get fixed in edgy?
<mhz> hi guys
<mhz> cbx33: ping
<lucasvo> hi 
<mhz> .oO(it's always nice to see familiar faces)
<LaserJock> hmm, except you can't see our faces
<mhz> LaserJock: :)
<mhz> geee!
<bddebian> Hmm :-)
<mhz> art.ubuntu.com?
<mhz> who had submitted artwork there?
<mhz> I can't seem to be able to submit anything there :(
#edubuntu 2006-08-04
<cbx33> mhz, pong
<mhz> cbx33: hey, is AliasVegas around?
<cbx33> 2 secs
<cbx33> she is but sh'es afk
<cbx33> what d'ya need
<mhz> cbx33: I want to submit a ccouple of wallpapers to edubuntu
<mhz> I have tried a.u.c but it is not possible
<cbx33> a.u.c ?
<cbx33> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdubuntuArtwork/Worksheet
<cbx33> add them to the bottom of there
<HedgeMage> LaserJock: pong... still around?
<LaserJock> HedgeMage: nevermind, sorry. IRC problem
<HedgeMage> np
<LaserJock> hi jsgotangco 
<jsgotangco> hey
<LaserJock> jsgotangco: bzr branch http://dev.realistanew.com/gallium--tw
<jsgotangco> tw?
<LaserJock> that's Amaranth 
<jsgotangco> there's a project called gallium btw
<LaserJock> what? bummer
<jsgotangco> Gallium is intended  to provide a free (licensed under the GNU LGPL),
<jsgotangco>  portable and API-compatible Carbon* emulator for the X Window System.
<LaserJock> hmm, we'll just have to call ours gallium-ng ;-)
<Burgundavia> LaserJock: I recommend Periodicum, which is latin for periodic
<LaserJock> hmm, that's a little long, but I like the idea
<Burgundavia> I believe Periodica is esperanto for the same thing
<LaserJock> jsgotangco: anyway, run python table.py
<LaserJock> Burgundavia: that's maybe better
<jsgotangco> ok branching
<Burgundavia> LaserJock: you are going to need to split out the kalzium package, so it can be installed with all the qt-crap^WWWfluff
<LaserJock> why do we need kalzium?
<Burgundavia> are you not using their data?
<LaserJock> sure, it's an .xml file
<jsgotangco> the table clipped
<LaserJock> yeah, you gotta drag it out
<jsgotangco> it doesnt render beyond element 103 yet
<jsgotangco> oh wait
<jsgotangco> it just did
<jsgotangco> oh i just noticed it uses cairo
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> anyway, that's development, day 1
<LaserJock> or so
<Amaranth> more or less 24 hours after i started i ended up with that :)
<LaserJock> and if lucasvo wasn't so pick with the arrows we could have gotten farther ;-)
<LaserJock> *picky
<Amaranth> btw, pull again and it sets the window size correctly
* jsgotangco pulls
<jsgotangco> ahh that's very nice
<jsgotangco> Elements object is EVIL?
<jsgotangco> heh
<LaserJock> we picked that up from Kalzium I believe
<Amaranth> jsgotangco: the position table
* jsgotangco thinks he's going to learn a lot on this exercise
<Amaranth> No one is allowed to edit it without me killing them with a spoon. :)
<Amaranth> element_pos_table is 111 (!) column, row sets used for positioning the elements on the periodic table
<bddebian> Howdy
<Amaranth> hrm, i think willowng got lost on it's way to the repos
<bddebian> Stuck in NEW?
<LaserJock> I thought it got past NEW
<bddebian> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/edgy/+queue?queue_state=0&queue_text=willow
<LaserJock> hmm
<Amaranth> it built fine
<Amaranth> yesterday
<Amaranth> you can even get it from https://launchpad.net/+builds/+build/234365
<lecaros> hi guys
<bddebian> Hello lecaros
<lecaros> bddebian hi
<gromerotw> Hello there!
<gromerotw> Hi!
<LaserJock> hi gromerotw 
<gromerotw> Hello, hw are you doing?
<LaserJock> fine, thanks
<LaserJock> how about yourself?
<gromerotw> Fine. Just trying to setup edubuntu but I got a lot of troubles.
<gromerotw> Are you using edubuntu?
<LaserJock> that's no fun
<LaserJock> no
<LaserJock> I mostly play around with Ubuntu
<LaserJock> in general
<LaserJock> I don't have an edubuntu install right now :(
<gromerotw> Ubuntu and edubuntu are quite similar.
<LaserJock> yes they are
<LaserJock> especially if you do a workstation install of edubuntu
<gromerotw> I have installed LTSP. It works fine.
<gromerotw> My problem is that I can get sound out of wavesurfer.
<gromerotw> It's just using the server speaker.
<LaserJock> hmm
<gromerotw> xmms is working fine on the client.
<LaserJock> actually, you might get more help if you email the edubuntu-users mailing list
<gromerotw> But I need something like wavesurfer or gnusound.
<LaserJock> as none of the helpful people seem to be awake :(
<gromerotw> Ok. Thank you. I will try.
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
* mode/#edubuntu [-o highvoltage]  by highvoltage
<seshomaru> hello
<seshomaru> can edubuntu thin clients boot from a wireless network?
<Amaranth> I think that's up to your BIOS.
<seshomaru> you mean the bios of the client?
<Amaranth> yeah
<seshomaru> can i ask you another question?
<Amaranth> I've never run Edubuntu but sure. :)
<seshomaru> if the client doesnt have a harddisk, who detects the hardware?
<Amaranth> I don't know enough about LTSP to answer, I would imagine the server.
<seshomaru> when it boots? does the server detect the hardware?
<seshomaru> i see
<Amaranth> If you can use pxeboot with your wireless card it should work fine.
<Amaranth> No hard drive needed, that's what it's called a thin-client. :)
<Amaranth> err, that's why
<seshomaru> is there somewhere i can get a list of hardware that supports linux (ubuntu...)?
<seshomaru> i want to set many clients here but i'm afraid that their hardware is not supported because they are VERY old
<jsgotangco> LTSP doesn't boot to a wireless network yet, AFAIK
<seshomaru> i see
<jsgotangco> it might be very slow if it does
<Burgundavia> jsgotangco: no pxe chips for wireless cards?
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
* mode/#edubuntu [-o highvoltage]  by highvoltage
<jsgotangco> i haven't heard of such at all
<Burgundavia> http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/WirelessLTSPClientsUsingAnEthernetBridge
<highvoltage> booting with wireless isn't quite supported yet
<Burgundavia> even with a bootdisk?
<seshomaru> highvoltage, wireless booting isn't supported in edubuntu or linux?
<highvoltage> even with a bootdisk.
<highvoltage> Burgundavia: unless, you can boot something that contains a linux kernel, and the modules for the card, which does't quit exist yet (pre-packaged and all)
<jsgotangco> yeah
<Burgundavia> right
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: what's the URL of your company btw (with the kiosk images)
<Burgundavia> highvoltage: kiosk images?
<jsgotangco> pictures i mean
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: it's not on our company website, but on the government agency I've been doing work for the last 3 weeks: http://www.digitaldoorway.co.za
<jsgotangco> right thanks
<Burgundavia> highvoltage: is that a 441
<Burgundavia> ?
<jsgotangco> im doing a presentation for my future boss
<highvoltage> Burgundavia: it was
<jsgotangco> it was
<highvoltage> the 441 has been discontinued
<highvoltage> so now they run Ubuntu + Xfce + a very modified Ubuntu LTSP
<seshomaru> people , i would like to set up edubuntu in my school, is there anyone here who set up edubuntu before?
<Burgundavia> ah, shame about Userful
<Burgundavia> s multiseat stuff not being OSS
<highvoltage> seshomaru: sure :)
<highvoltage> Burgundavia: how so, what happened to Userful?
<highvoltage> aah, yes
<Burgundavia> highvoltage: what do you mean? I still work for them
<seshomaru> highvoltage, can i ask you , how much control does the server have over individual clients?
<highvoltage> Burgundavia: no, i just saw 08:16 < Burgundavia> ah, shame about Userful
<highvoltage> and wondered what you meant
<Burgundavia> highvoltage: read both lines together, hit enter too soon
<highvoltage> seshomaru: you can specify which drivers and settings each machine has, but otherwise not much yet
<seshomaru> highvoltage, i mean can i have each client to have different options, one with firefox and gimp one with just games?
<highvoltage> seshomaru: ogra is working on a control panel for the server that would give you more control over the desktops, it's planned for a future version of edubuntu
<seshomaru> highvoltage, what is the situation like at the moment?
<Burgundavia> seshomaru: if you have python skills, help is always sought
<seshomaru> Burgundavia, i'm afraid i'm not much use with python.....
<Burgundavia> right
<seshomaru> another question - i have a server with 1G memory , can i boot 14 clients?
<seshomaru> you guys are there?
<bimberi> !eduhw
<ubotu> eduhardware is https://help.ubuntu.com/community/HowToCookEdubuntu/Chapters/HardwareRequirements
<bimberi> seshomaru: from that page - "256MB for the system and 128MB per user if they use office applications and a web browser"
<seshomaru> bimberi, thanks, i cant open that site.....
<seshomaru> last question , can the clients in edubuntu share files on the server?
<seshomaru> gotta go,,,,catch you guys later,,,,
<bimberi> seshomaru: yes
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
* mode/#edubuntu [-o highvoltage]  by highvoltage
<highvoltage> Burgwork: ping!
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
<cbx33> woohoo
<cbx33> finally I can connect with my gprs phone
<cbx33> now I just need cheep calls
<cbx33> right I'm off...back soon with a proper connection :D
<FiberOptics> hi cbx33 
<FiberOptics> wb
<cbx33> Hi FiberOptics 
<cbx33> ping highvoltage 
<FiberOptics> what?
<FiberOptics> * Ping reply from highvoltage: 1.00 second(s)
<FiberOptics> ;p
<cbx33> FiberOptics, we use that to tell someone we wanna speak to them
<FiberOptics> pardon?
<FiberOptics> cbx33: what do you use? :/
<cbx33> FiberOptics, when I said ping highvoltage
<FiberOptics> yes
<FiberOptics> i thought you meant for me to ping highvoltage  lol
<FiberOptics> :p
<FiberOptics> sorry
<highvoltage> cbx33: send me your physical or postal address
<highvoltage> (by e-mail, preferably)
<cbx33> ok
<FiberOptics> can someone help me, it's nice and quiet here, i can't keep up in #ubuntu
<FiberOptics> i'm needing to install ubuntu alongside windows
<cbx33> FiberOptics, what's the issue
<FiberOptics> but i went into the installation yesterday, and didnt know how-to deal with partitioning so i quit it
<FiberOptics> i don't want to touch windows files
<FiberOptics> is that possible?
<cbx33> it depends
<cbx33> do you have free space on that disk.
<cbx33> IE space that isn't currently assigned to a partition?
<FiberOptics> I have C: and D: on here now
<FiberOptics> Would it be better if I went onto ubuntu to view the partitions?
<FiberOptics> I cant see them on windows
<cbx33> no it's ok
<cbx33> but yes you can see them
<cbx33> do you got windows xp?
<FiberOptics> yep
<FiberOptics> xp home
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> right click on my computer
<cbx33> and goto manage
<FiberOptics> ok 
<FiberOptics> am there
<cbx33> ok you sohuld see disk manager some where?
<cbx33> or manage disks?
<FiberOptics> disk management?
<cbx33> yes
<cbx33> that's the one
<FiberOptics> ok
<FiberOptics> Recovery Partition
<FiberOptics> Vaio (C:)
<FiberOptics> Vaio (D:)
<FiberOptics> I think Windows is on Vaio (C:) becuase next to it it says "Healthy (System"
<FiberOptics> )"*
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> underneath that
<cbx33> it should have some bars
<cbx33> which are equvilent to your disks
<FiberOptics> yuo
<FiberOptics> yup*
<FiberOptics> got that
<cbx33> ok basically....can you see if the partition use up all the space on the disk?
<cbx33> basically add up the sizes
<FiberOptics> it takes up 74.53GB
<FiberOptics> so thats all of it i think
<FiberOptics> or close to it
<FiberOptics> HDD: 80GB 
<FiberOptics> so 6Gb free
<wvdl> Hi folks. new kids on the canonical block. Going to be working with RichEd on the NEPAD thing
<cbx33> hi wvdl 
<cbx33> FiberOptics, ok, by the looks of things
<FiberOptics> =o
<FiberOptics> cbx33: sorry about that, xchat closed, what did u say?
<pygi> <cbx33> FiberOptics, ok, by the looks of things
<FiberOptics> ty
<cbx33> hehe
<cbx33> pygi, edubuntu will resize the ntfs partition won;t it?
<cbx33> I've never installed it that way
<FiberOptics> im gona do ubuntu
<FiberOptics> would it be the same?
<cbx33> yes
<FiberOptics> okay
<pygi> cbx33, it should be able to
<FiberOptics> but it should use the free space on it, it wont delete files right?
<pygi> FiberOptics, w00t? edubuntu's better :)
<pygi> FiberOptics, you have the Gparted, whatever:
<pygi> :)
<pygi> so resize :)
<cbx33> heheh
<FiberOptics> so now i'll switch to ubuntu right?
<cbx33> there is always an element of risk when playing with partitions
<pygi> cbx33, especially NTFS =P
<cbx33> indeed
<FiberOptics> if i do bugger up, i can always restore right?
<cbx33> no
<FiberOptics> =o
<cbx33> backup your data before you do anything
<cbx33> standard practise
<FiberOptics> i mean my sony restore, not windows
<FiberOptics> ill get my data somewhere
<FiberOptics> safe
<cbx33> oh,....hmmm......you"should" be ble to
<FiberOptics> ok
<FiberOptics> dam this is risky
<FiberOptics> ;o
<FiberOptics> ill save my pictures and stuff, sod the music, can download that again
<FiberOptics> leme switch to ubuntu
<FiberOptics> brb
<FiberOptics> where are the screen drivers saved in windows usually?
<cbx33> screen drivers?
<cbx33> download em from the net dude
<FiberOptics> you can do that?
<lucasvo> FiberOptics: you must.
<pygi> bleh, lol :)
<lucasvo> FiberOptics: windows driver aren't supported by linux
<lucasvo> (but one can even get windows drivers from the net)
<FiberOptics> lucasvo no, ubuntu is fine, its just when i come back to windows (..if i do) thats what im worried about
<FiberOptics> because before when i went from ubuntu to windows, windows wouldnt use my screen
<cbx33> FiberOptics, that's windows' issue
<cbx33> not ubuntus
<FiberOptics> yup
<FiberOptics> brb
<cbx33> but getting the drivers from the net is your best bet
<FiberOptics> hi
<FiberOptics> cbx33: now im on ubuntu
<FiberOptics> hm
<FiberOptics> cbx33
<FiberOptics> http://img98.imageshack.us/my.php?image=screenshotoa4.png
<FiberOptics> thats my partitons
<cbx33> rodarvus, I received your mail
<rodarvus> cbx33, thanks :)
<cbx33> :)
<cbx33> bbl
<guillermo> Hello
<Signifer> hey
<guillermo> Hello there!
<gromerotw> Hello
<jsgotangco> hey guys
<bddebian> Howdy
<cbx33> :(
<LaserJock> hola Pete
* cbx33 is about to get a migrane
<LaserJock> what?
<LaserJock> noooo
<cbx33> hey LaserJock 
<cbx33> yup
<cbx33> I have the vision defects right now
<cbx33> can't see the right side of my inbox
<LaserJock> cbx33: my grandmother had a really bad migrane that lasted for almost a month
<LaserJock> she finally had to go to the hospital I think
<cbx33> yikes
<LaserJock> but she is better now
<LaserJock> the problem was the headache was so bad she couldn't sleep, and then lack of sleep made the headache keep going, etc. etc.
<cbx33> yikes
<cbx33> I can feel this one starting
<cbx33> :(
<LaserJock> cbx33: did you happen to see the latest gallium stuff?
<cbx33> no
<cbx33> is it fnished?
<LaserJock> hehe
<LaserJock> not that far
<cbx33> whats the news
<cbx33> eeek
<cbx33> bbiab
<cbx33> head is starting to kill
<LaserJock> well, now when you roll over the elements the pictures sho up
<LaserJock> cbx33: yeah, go take care of the headache rather than watching text scrool by
<cbx33> LaserJock, cool
<cbx33> well at least I did something for gallium
<cbx33> :D
<bddebian> Hello
<Signifer> Hey
<bddebian> Hi Signifer
<mhz> hi all
<bddebian> Heya mhz
<mhz> bddebian: hi ya
#edubuntu 2006-08-05
<gromerotw> Hello there.
<stevenprentice> I have an install related question. What should I select as my primary network interface during the install? eth0, a gigabit card for the local clients or eth1, a 100mbit card for upstream?
<ogra> rodarvus, i have local devices working fine here, even with a better implementation i think ...
<ogra> but i have one intresting problem ... if i copy a lot of stuff, X starts eating memory and the client just dies
<ogra> i wonder how filesystem actions can influence X memory usage ...
<rodarvus> ogra, nice!
<rodarvus> it doesn't looks like a X problem
<rodarvus> maybe something kernel-related (that triggers the out-of-memory handler?)
<ogra> no, i can see the X memusage rise in top on the console of the terminal
<bddebian> Hello
<ogra> btw, i do all the mount and unmount magic in a udev script directly on the terminal to /tmp/drives and keep that in a permanent fuse mount in /tmp/.$UID-ltspfs on the server ... so devce show up automatically in that dir
<ogra> *devices
<ogra> no need for a complicated lbus and an additional open port :)
<ogra> i also have a 40 line session-script that cares for the rest on the session side :)
<lucasvo> ogra: that will get into edgy?
<lucasvo> awesome
<ogra> next week ... or tomorrow ... 
<ogra> i'll still have a lot to test there
<lucasvo> I can help you
<lucasvo> does eject from gnome work?
<ogra> sure, if you have a client to test with 
<ogra> no need to eject, you can just unplug it
<lucasvo> yes I do
<lucasvo> ogra: doesn't that cause loss of data if one is still writing to it?
<ogra> nope
<ogra> ltspfs syncs the drive every 2 seconds
<ogra> so you would only lose data if you manage to unplug it in that sync while the copied data didnt arrive yet
<ogra> at least thats what sbalneav promotes everywhere ... thats one thing to test
<lucasvo> what about local apps?
<ogra> not specced
* ogra has to go now ... bbl
<lucasvo> cu ogra 
<lucasvo> ogra: tell me when it's in, I can test
<gromerotw> Hello there!
<gromerotw> I have a question about setting up edubuntu. Can anyboby help?
<Electryfier> Hello
<Electryfier> I need driver help with my monitor.
<Electryfier> I can't go to more than 800x600@60Hz on it.
<Electryfier> A little help here?
<Electryfier> Anyone?
<Electryfier> Hello, anybody out there?
<Amaranth> !fixres
<ubotu> x is the X Window System; it's the part of your system that's responsible for graphical output. To restart your X, type this in a console: sudo /etc/init.d/?dm restart  -  To fix screen resolution or other X problems: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/FixVideoResolutionHowto
* Amaranth goes to bed
<Electryfier> I'm back
<Electryfier> So how do I solve my monitor problem?
<Electryfier> As in max res. 800x600@60Hz.
<Electryfier> could somebody help me
<Electryfier> please?
<Electryfier> Anyone?
<Electryfier> Hello?
<Electryfier> ogra?
<Electryfier> I need HELP
<lucasvo> Electryfier: slowly
<lucasvo> where? on the server, on the client?
<Electryfier> Monitor problem
<pygi> Electryfier, calm down, this very second
<Electryfier> Very well
<pygi> now...do you run Edubuntu on your home computer?
<Electryfier> yes
<Electryfier> And I currently am
<pygi> lucasvo, there, basic X setup then :)
<lucasvo> Electryfier: what display do you have?
<lucasvo> which size, what resolution?
<lucasvo> what sync range?
<Electryfier> Samsung SyncMaster 793DF
<Electryfier> 17 inch
<Electryfier> 120Hz max
<lucasvo> vert. refresh?
<Electryfier> what?
<Electryfier> It says it can run at max. 120Hz
<Electryfier> at 640x480
<lucasvo> Electryfier: can you paste the xorg.conf on pastebin.ca
<lucasvo> to do so: gedit /etc/X11/xorg.conf
<Electryfier> sorry, i'm not pasting anything
<lucasvo> Electryfier: this actually is a topic for #ubuntu
<Electryfier> so?
<lucasvo> you may get better help there
* lucasvo is not an X pro
<Electryfier> OK, OK, just pipe down
<pygi> Electryfier, how do you want us to help without pasting? wth? it's not like we'll hack you if you paste xorg.conf
<Electryfier> ok
<Electryfier> keboard is bad
<Electryfier> an't use lower part
<pygi> bleh
<Electryfier> http://pastebin.ca/117002
<Electryfier> there ou go
<lucasvo> ok, now open the document again but with sudo
<lucasvo> sudo gedit /etc/X11/xorg.conf
<Electryfier> ok
<lucasvo> edit the section:
<Electryfier> and?
<lucasvo> 	SubSection "Display"
<lucasvo> 		Depth		24
<lucasvo> 		Modes		"800x600" "720x450" "640x480"
<lucasvo> 	EndSubSection
<lucasvo> and add "1024x786" before "800x600"
<Electryfier> k
<lucasvo> and "1280x1024"
<lucasvo> or whatever modes it can operate in
<Electryfier> k
<lucasvo> after you saved the file you can press ctrl+alt+backspace
<lucasvo> (this will cause an X restart->your session will be closed)
<Electryfier> ok
<Electryfier> lucasvo
<Electryfier> that didn't help
<Chipzz> lucasvo: please give the correct solution
<Chipzz> lucasvo: the correct thing to do is dpkg-reconfigure -p low xserver-xorg
<Chipzz> lucasvo: not editting the xorg.conf file manually
<Electryfier> Chipzz thanks
<lucasvo> Chipzz: this solution is as correct as dpkg-reconfigure -p low xserver-xorg
<lucasvo> nobody forces you to use dpkg
<Chipzz> lucasvo: editting xorg.conf *is* incorrect by it being overwritten on the next update
<Chipzz> so please do NOT tell users to edit xorg.conf by hand
<Chipzz> s/by/by virtue of it/
<Chipzz> s/by it/by virtue of it/
<LaserJock> Chipzz: it doesn't get overwritten
<Chipzz> it may get overwritten
<LaserJock> but dpkg-reconfigure is nicer, IMO
<Chipzz> in any case, dpkg-reconfigure is the only recommended (and I think supported) solution
<cbx33> :D
<cbx33> the studio is back :D
<pygi> cbx33, eh ^_^
<Electryfier> Does anyone know any system optimizers (if any exist) for Debian-based systems?
<Electryfier> How do I change permissions? I tried chmod this: sudo chmod 777 "yadda,yadda, yadda"
<Electryfier> A little help here?
<Electryfier> I need to upload to the integrated server
<Electryfier> Apache
#edubuntu 2006-08-06
<Amaranth> hey, willowng finally made it out of limbo
<lucasvo> Amaranth: I'll test it tomorrow
<Amaranth> lucasvo: did you see my new tooltips in gallium?
<lucasvo>  saved branch: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~gallium-dev/gallium/tw--devel
<lucasvo> bzr: ERROR: No such file: 'http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~gallium-dev/gallium/tw--devel/.bzr/repository/knits/e9/%2543.jpg-20060804035635-3851a2711f2090d7.kndx': (6, "Couldn't resolve host 'bazaar.launchpad.net'")
<lucasvo> what was the other location?
<Amaranth> oh, i gave up on launchpad
<Amaranth> http://dev.realistanew.com/gallium--tw
<lucasvo> well, your server's taking me a hell lot of time to merge
<Burgundavia> lucasvo: I don't think all that bazaar stuff in LP is very stable yet
<lucasvo> done
<lucasvo> Burgundavia: I have no problems with it
<lucasvo> Amaranth: I like them
<lucasvo> Amaranth: however I think you should make some padding
<lucasvo> and not only display the full name
<Amaranth> well, yeah
<Amaranth> the hard part is making them appear :)
<Amaranth> the code for it is scary
<Burgundavia> Amaranth: if I have already pulled down your code via bzr branch, how do I update to the latest?
<lucasvo> Burgundavia: did you use branch or pull
<Amaranth> Burgundavia: bzr pull
<Burgundavia> lucasvo: branch originally
<Burgundavia> shiny it is working
<Burgundavia> geez this bzr stuff is easy
* lucasvo is installing willowng
<Amaranth> I stole the fake tooltips code from quod libet, actually
<Amaranth> they have some cool code that does a tooltip for elipsized treeview cells
<Burgundavia> Amaranth: should this be taking several minutes? I branched a few days ago
<Amaranth> i just modified it to work as a real tooltip
<Amaranth> Burgundavia: Yeah, bzr is slow.
<Amaranth> And I stuffed a bunch of images into the repo.
<Burgundavia> right
<Burgundavia> is the next thing they are going todo is to make if blazing fast?
<lucasvo> 7135: arguments to dbus_connection_send_with_reply_and_block() were incorrect, assertion "connection != NULL" failed in file dbus-connection.c line 2778.
<lucasvo> Amaranth: ?
<lucasvo> This is normally a bug in some application using the D-BUS library.
<lucasvo> 7135: arguments to dbus_connection_send_with_reply_and_block() were incorrect, assertion "connection != NULL" failed in file dbus-connection.c line 2778.
<lucasvo> This is normally a bug in some application using the D-BUS library.
<Amaranth> lucasvo: *shrug*
<Amaranth> I can't figure out why it says that.
<Burgundavia> hmm, ctrl-c take a while to take hold
<Amaranth> It didn't before, then (with me changing nothing), it does.
<lucasvo> Amaranth: that's why: Introspect error: The name com.ubuntu.WillowNG was not provided by any .service files
<Amaranth> lucasvo: Nope, it does it even when the proxy is running.
<Amaranth> btw, dbus starts the proxy, you either have to restart the computer or force it to start with sudo /etc/dbus-1/event.d/99willowng start
<lucasvo> ok, started it.
<lucasvo> do you know how to fix it?
<Amaranth> nope
<Amaranth> those errors just started showing up
<lucasvo> so I basically can't run it?
<Amaranth> they don't affect it
<Amaranth> it still works
<lucasvo> Amaranth: no, it doesn't: http://pastebin.ca/117474
<Amaranth> even after you started the proxy you get that?
<lucasvo> yes
<lucasvo>  * Starting content filter: willowng                                                                                                                  [ ok ]  
<Amaranth> W.T.F.
<Amaranth> it doesn't work here either
<Amaranth> but it did before, even with those errors
<Amaranth> and it worked for ogra too
<lucasvo> :P
<lucasvo> strange
<Amaranth> stupid gnome-vfs
<lucasvo> improve it
<Amaranth> gnome-vfs uses dbus and threads so every application using gnome-vfs and dbus has to do things to make it not break
<Burgundavia> Amaranth: you want a .desktop for your app?
<Amaranth> i've got one for willowng
<Amaranth> i know how to make them :P
<Burgundavia> no, for gallium
<Amaranth> ah
<Amaranth> what i really need is an icon :)
<Burgundavia> right
<Amaranth> i know .desktop files inside and out (damn menu spec)
<Burgundavia> indeed
<lucasvo> I have to sleep
<lucasvo> good night
<lucasvo> sudo apt-get install ltspfs
<lucasvo> try ltspfs!
<lucasvo> test it, report bugs.
<Amaranth> lucasvo: that's a bug in the dbus python bindings
<Amaranth> wait, no it's not, it's coming from gnome-vfs
<Amaranth> those errors are, i mean
<Amaranth> lucasvo: and the problem with my app is due to not restarting your computer :)
<Amaranth> lucasvo: if you call sudo invoke-rc.d dbus reload _then_ call sudo /etc/dbus-1/event.d/99willowng restart it should work
<lucasvo> Amaranth: not really: http://pastebin.ca/117493
<Amaranth> just restart your computer :P
<lucasvo> nah, won't do that
* lucasvo never knows what turns out when he restarts his pc
<lucasvo> last time I had to reinstall x
<Amaranth> sudo killall willowng && sudo rm /var/run/willowng.pid && sudo invoke-rc.d dbus reload && sudo /etc/dbus-1/event.d/99willowng start
<Amaranth> if that doesn't work something is wrong with your computer and you really need to restart
<lucasvo> finally
<Amaranth> That's the "Amaranth Way of Beating Things Into Working"
<lucasvo> Amaranth: can't you make it transparent on default?
<Amaranth> transparent?
<lucasvo> transparent proxy?
<Amaranth> Nope.
<lucasvo> why not?
<Amaranth> http://launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-dev doesn't like that :)
<lucasvo> well, disable it on default but make an option at least
<Amaranth> the little checkbox is going to set debconf and gconf proxy settings then block off port 80 for everyone but the willowng user
<lucasvo> oh, ok
<Amaranth> originally the little checkbox was going to turn on transparent proxying
<Amaranth> i was told no
<lucasvo> they don't like it?
<Amaranth> it breaks a couple of standards
<lucasvo> maybe you could make an additional checkbox
<Amaranth> why? setting debconf and gconf settings should make everyone work fine
<Amaranth> except lynx and junk
<lucasvo> or write at least: by activating this proxy, debconf and gconf get's reconfigured
<Amaranth> This is a tool for parents.
<Amaranth> They don't even know what debconf and gconf are. :P
<lucasvo> yes, then say, It automatically configures your browser.
<lucasvo> Amaranth: but they also don't know what a port is
<Amaranth> 'Enable Content Filter'
<Amaranth> lucasvo: Yeah, ogra asked me to add that for some reason.
<lucasvo> well of course it has to be written there!
<Amaranth> I'm against geeking it out anymore than that.
<lucasvo> yes
<lucasvo> you could make an advanced section
<lucasvo> where you can even choose which port it should use
<Amaranth> nope, that's a config file thing :P
<lucasvo> and willowng-config isn't the right gui for it?
<Amaranth> nope
<lucasvo> why not?
<lucasvo> does willlowng support login for unfiltered access?
<Amaranth> no
<lucasvo> when I activate it, do I have to restart the browser?
<Amaranth> the checkbox doesn't do anything
<lucasvo> but?
<Amaranth> the entire program is about  1 1/2 months old and half of that was packaging
<Amaranth> lots of stuff doesn't do anything :P
<lucasvo> oh
* lucasvo is off
<Amaranth> login for unfiltered access is a good idea
<Amaranth> anyone in the 'admin' group should be able to do that
<Burgundavia> Amaranth: what is the bzr address of willow-ng?
<Amaranth> http://dev.realistanew.com/willowng
<Amaranth> it might not be for long, my dev subdomain is in need of some cleanup
<Burgundavia> ok, this is just for uwn
<Amaranth> eek
<Burgundavia> Amaranth: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/Issue8
<Amaranth> ah
<Amaranth> that's cool, but your missing a newline between SoC projects
<Amaranth> alright, now that i've fixed my bash on my server (.bashrc hacking is fun!) time to do some housecleaning
<Amaranth> crap, i can't remember how to activate new subdomains
<Burgundavia> Amaranth: caught that
<Burgundavia> Amaranth: do you know what is new in LTSP?
<Amaranth> nope
<Amaranth> I've never used it.
<Amaranth> I don't run Edubuntu, I just make things. :)
<Burgundavia> Amaranth: that makes two of us
<gromerotw> Hello there!
<Signifer> hey
<gromerotw> How are you doing?
<Signifer> Awesome
<gromerotw> I have a question about setting up edununtu?
<gromerotw> Can I post it here?
<Signifer> Don't see why not
<gromerotw> I'm trying to use wavesurfer 
<gromerotw> It works fine on the server but when I try on the client (ltsp)
<gromerotw> the sound keep going out from the server's speaker.
<gromerotw> The same happen with gnusound
<gromerotw> How to fix it?
<Signifer> Its thinclient you'd have to run the application on the client...not the server...
<Signifer> unless anyone else knows of a better way?
<gromerotw> It's ltsp.
<gromerotw> The application runs on the server and everything goes out through the client.
<Signifer> The xSession goes out through the client
<Signifer> http://linuxplanet.com/linuxplanet/tutorials/4472/4/
<Signifer> thats site has a tutorial, i havn't tested that claims it can do what you want...
<gromerotw> Ok. Thanks. I will take a look to the tutorials.
<Signifer> the wiki also has a tutorial
<Signifer> http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/Sound
<Burgundavia> Signifer: the lstp.org version of ltsp is different then ours
<Burgundavia> you need to turn on sound in edubuntu
<gromerotw> I have read many toturials, they are not helpful in this case.
<Burgundavia> I believe ltsp.conf a setting for it
<gromerotw> I have sound on the thin client, also xmms is working fine.
<Burgundavia> Sound issue fixed by putting the following in /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/lts.conf:
<Burgundavia> Code:
<Burgundavia> [Default]  SOUND = Tru
<gromerotw> It's just that wavesurfer doesn't work.
<Signifer> what device is it told to write to?
<gromerotw> But if I tried the same setup in redhat 9.0 it works without any problem.
<Signifer> :|
<gromerotw> I think that I'm missing some package. But what?
<Burgundavia> gromerotw: did you do the above fix?
<gromerotw> You mean  [Default]  SOUND = Tru?
<Burgundavia> yep, well True
<gromerotw> Let me check it?
<gromerotw> I have in every client SOUND    = Y
<gromerotw> but not as [Default] 
<Burgundavia> try that
<Burgundavia> you might need to restart the clients
<gromerotw> Ok. Give me a couple of minutes.
<gromerotw> I'm back.
<gromerotw> The result is the same.
<gromerotw> It is using the server's speaker.
<gromerotw> SOUND=true
<Burgundavia> gromerotw: hmm, have you tried restarting the ltsp server?
<gromerotw> Ok. I will try. I'll be out for a minute
<gromerotw> I'm back.
<Signifer> and?
<gromerotw> The result is the same than before. 
<Signifer> did it work?
<Signifer> :(
<gromerotw> It didn't.
<gromerotw> If you have two pcs. and the sound working fine on the thin client.
<gromerotw> and you try to install wavesurfer
<gromerotw> perhaps you will have the same problem.
<gromerotw> But if you try the same setup on redhat 9.0, there will be no problem.
<gromerotw> I'm using esd as the sound server in the lts.conf
<gromerotw> Is there any way how to restore to normal edubuntu without reinstalling again?
<lucasvo> ogra: ltsp-build-client failed
<lucasvo> Unpacking xserver-xorg (from .../xserver-xorg_1%3a7.0.22ubuntu7_all.deb) ...
<lucasvo> xserver-xorg config warning: failed to infer keyboard layout from layout/lang '10 debian-installer/keymap doesn't exist--10 debian-installer/language doesn't exist'
<lucasvo> Server symlink checksum doesn't exist. We need to make it
<lucasvo> I'll try again
<lucasvo> ogra: failed on second attempt as well :(
<wouterl> are the educational pakages in edubuntu also available in other languages (than english) like dutch?
<lucasvo> wouterl: quite a lot, I can't say you how much
<lucasvo> wouterl: however you can get a list of the applications being translated here:
<lucasvo> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/dapper/+lang/nl
<lucasvo> however it's not only educational applications
<wouterl> thanks !
<wouterl> it helped a lot (that link)
<lucasvo> wouterl: as you see a huge part has already been translated. you just have to install the language packs
<wouterl> thanks for the information, i'm off now
<Caraibes> hi all, I have a newbie question :
<Caraibes> I am now running Blag (bades on fc5)
<Caraibes> I just downloaded edubuntu installl
<Caraibes> and want to check md5...
<Caraibes> do you know how I could do it ?
<lucasvo> Caraibes: md5sum __FILENAME__
<Caraibes> thank you, sorry for such a silly question...
<lucasvo> np
<flint> hi there sports fans!
<flint> I need to flip eth0 and eth1 on a system I have running, anybody got any elegant ideas?
<Signifer> bios?
<flint> Signifer, na, something in /etc/networks and maybe in a bunch of other places as well....
<Signifer> works for floppy drives :-P
<flint> excellent point...
<flint> anyway gotta reboot in another place... later!
<flint> anybody know how to set EDD 606 to forward packets?
<eugman> Which of the typing programs are available by default on the livecd?
<lucasvo> eugman: Ktouch
<lucasvo> and I think tuxtype
<eugman> Do you think a livecd would be good enough for my mom to learn typing or would a harddrive to save stuff be really needed?
<lucasvo> eugman: what machine do you have?
<lucasvo> I live cd is slow if there is less then 512mb
<lucasvo> 256 are needed tor run it at all
<eugman> I've got an old gateway 2000 I was thinking of setting up for her. It will probably end up being too old and I'll have to remaster a lightweight distro.
<lucasvo> eugman: I would install Xubuntu
<eugman> Do you know if I'd have to remaster it or does it have a typing program installed like gtypist?
<lucasvo> eugman: remaster?
<lucasvo> eugman: it takes about 4min to install gtypist
<eugman> Right, and that would be perfect if I was expecting constant uptime or a computer literate mother.
<lucasvo> yes
<eugman> That and no internet acess
<eugman> So it has to be installed  on the cd itself.
<lucasvo> oh, internet may be critical
<eugman> Forgot about that for a moment myself.
<lucasvo> in that case, download the xubuntu and edubuntu cd, install xubuntu, then add the edubuntu cd as a repository
<eugman> Now would running ktouch from xfce defeat the purpose of running xcfe?
<lucasvo> eugman: no.
<eugman> Would it be possible to make a script file that will install and run the program?
<lucasvo> yes
<eugman> thanks
<pygi> Burgundavia, poke?
#edubuntu 2007-07-30
<sbalneav> ray_: What do you mean, open /usr/lib?
<ray_> sb got it
<ray_> sb is YamiPod good on lunix for ipod on edubuntu
<Burgundavia> ray_: you can use Banshee
<ray_> had to copy file there for it need room to get there
<sbalneav> Dunno, I don't have an ipod :)
<ray_> bur is YamiPod good i heard it is
<ray_> bur you used YamiPod good
<ray_> bur will get it
<Burgundavia> I don't own an Ipod either
<Burgundavia> evil things
<ray_> but want to try YamiPod
<ray_> is edubuntu good
<ray_> for school and college user
<Burgundavia> absolutely
<Burgundavia> then again, we might just be biased :)
<ray_> burg na i love
<ray_> it were can all the edubuntu stuff thats not in there as installer for school and college
<ray_> might need at to get
<ray_> i like it
<sbalneav> Night all
<Burgundavia> cya sbalneav
<encompass> ls
<encompass> hehe oops
<patxi> Hi all,
<patxi> I'd just installed Edubuntu 7.04 in the server. And modified 'dchpd,conf' file as explained in http://www.edubuntu.org/GettingStarted.
<patxi> Thin client boots with PXE, shows GDM login, but user can't login even username and passwords are correct.
<patxi> The 'clock' is cycling, and looks like thin clients does not send username/password to server,
<patxi> because there is not answer from server
<patxi> Any suggest?
<cynics> ogra: if people choose other languages using language-selector in edubuntu, will it install language-pack-kde-XX too?
<ogra> patxi, see the bold text that the top of the gettingstarted page ...
<ogra> thats *only* for dapper
<ogra> patxi, beyond that, see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/EdubuntuFAQ
<ogra> cynics, it should, if its not doing that, its a bug
<cynics> ogra: bug #128236
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 128236 in Ubuntu "Edubuntu (Feisty) install uses uncomplete Chinese font" [Undecided,Invalid]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/128236
<cynics> ogra: I've marked as invalid
<ogra> hmm, well, its a valid complaint, we dont have all fonts on the liveCD during development ... (i.e. gutsy)_
<ogra> ususally we only have english on the milestones CDs and add langs at the ed of the dev cycle as space permits
<cynics> ogra: only provide localized cd can solve these issues :)
<ogra> or dropping stuff
<ogra> its just a space issue
<sahil> i'm trying to convince a school to switch to linux their biggest argument is that the rest of the marketplace uses ms products how do you guys think i can deal with tis?
<ogra> chinese is particualry evil in this respect beacues you need all the input methods
<ogra> so chinese is the last thing we'd add indeed
<cynics> ogra: no, just one is ok for simplified chinese users
<ogra> right
<ogra> one > zero
<ogra> ;)
<cynics> :)
<ogra> its some extra space
<cynics> ogra: we have a project that using edubuntu in a primary school in china now, and they wanna a better supportted edubuntu release :)
<sahil> ogra!
<sahil> so you cohabitate in here
<patxi> ogra: even i'd run sudo ltsp-update-sshkeys user can't login from thin client
<patxi> ogra, thanks I've have to go
<multik> hi everyone
<sbalneav> Morning all
<sbalneav> ogra: ICMP ECHO REQUEST
<jinty> ogra: there's a schooltool weekly meeting on now
<jinty> should I tell them something about the packages?
<ari_stress> hello... do you know what log can i use to troubleshoot client cannot login to ltsp5?
<sbalneav> ari_stress: yes.
<sbalneav> Have you set a root password in your chroot?
<sbalneav> first off, have you done a sudo ltsp-update-sshkeys?
<ari_stress> hello sbalneav
<ari_stress> i guess i have, because it's previously working, until i install kubundu-desktop on it
<sbalneav> Ah.  Well, can you log in on the server?
<ari_stress> yes i can, from the server itself
<sbalneav> ok
<sbalneav> Well, simplest will be to check ldm's log
<sbalneav> chroot /opt/ltsp/i386
<ari_stress> when i try to logon from the client using CLI, the respon was login incorrect
<sbalneav> Well, you'll never be able to do that untill you set a password in the chroot.
<ari_stress> ok i've chroot
<ari_stress> then ?
<sbalneav> passwd
<sbalneav> that will set a root password in the chroot
<ari_stress> ok done
<ari_stress> then
<sbalneav> then you should be able to login as "root" and the password you typed in on the ctl-alt-f1 on the client.
<sbalneav> then have a look at /var/log/ldm.log
<ari_stress> yes i can logon as root now
<ari_stress> how can i logon as ordinary user? should I create each user?
<cberlo> Hi folks.  Got a (hopefully) small question:  is there a way to keep my nosy little students from browsing the entire file system?
<sbalneav> ari_stress: You'd never really want to do that.  You're logged in on the terminal itself, not the server.
<ari_stress> i'm using ldap as the authentication, previously when i was using ubuntu-desktop, i can logon from client using the ldap database
<ari_stress> then after install kubuntu-desktop. cannot login
<ari_stress> is there any step i must do after installing any packages?
<sbalneav> I'm assuming you installed kubuntu desktop on the server, right?  Not in the chroot?
<ari_stress> yes on the server.
<ari_stress> what happen if i install on the chroot?
<sbalneav> cberlo: Not really.  Linux like operating systems with proper security don't stop you from looking at things, but seeing as how they can't hurt anything, there's no harm.
<sbalneav> Besides, if they're looking at things, that means you've peaked their interest, and they're learning.  That's a good thing for students :)
<ari_stress> yes :)
<cberlo> sbalneav: Thanks.  I assumed as much, but there is one issue I need to resolve:  when browsing, they can fire up any program they want (like gnome-terminal) and I don't want them to have access to that.
<sbalneav> cberlo: Ah, well what you want is pessellus.
<sbalneav> It's a lockdown edor
<cberlo> Yes, but what I also want is to use the xfce4 environment, so is pessulus still an option?
<sbalneav> hmm
<sbalneav> not so much then :)
<sbalneav> Simplest would be (gross, but workable) to change the perms on gnome-terminal/xterm etc.
<ari_stress> where is the ldm log sbalneav?
<sbalneav> They're owned by root, so chmod 700 should make them inaccessible to all but root.
<sbalneav> that's really ick, though.
<cberlo> I'll have to play with it and see if pessulus helps.  If the gconf stuff still kicks in, it may still apply.  And I've thought of the perms approach, but that has to be reset every time the affected apps get updated.
<sbalneav> ari_stress: /var/log
<sbalneav> yeah, that's why it's ick :)
<cliebow_> i dont think it is ick..
<ari_stress> sbalneav: there's no any log named ldm in /var/log
<cberlo> Scripts have become my best friend with this project, but with the increasing scope I keep getting, keeping things manageable by anyone but me could be an issue.
<sbalneav> ari_stress: No?
<sbalneav> wierd.
<ari_stress> sbalneav: yes, strange?
<cberlo> cliebow_: suggestions?
<ari_stress> i'm using feisty
<ari_stress> ltsp5
<cliebow_> cberlo:i can try it in xfce
<sbalneav> ari_stress: Well, here's a quick test you can try.
<sbalneav> ssh -l username serverip
<cberlo> Also, is there a standard way to create directories under /var/run?  I've added a couple lines to bootmisc.sh, but I'd like to stay fairly standard...
<cberlo> cliebow_: Thanks.
<sbalneav> see if you can login without getting the "are you shure you want to connect" message.
<cliebow_> oh heck..wrong 'puter..
<ari_stress> sbalneav: from my ordinary notebook? or from the server itself?
<sbalneav> cberlo: it's usually /var/run/<program name>, but so long as it doesn't conflict with something else, anything goes.
<cliebow_> cberlo, it'll be a while..i hosed my xubuntu hard drive
<sbalneav> ari_stress: from the root login on the terminal.
<cberlo> sbalneav: and using the /etc/init.d/bootmisc.sh script should be an acceptable location to make the directory I want?
<cberlo> cliebow_: No probs.  Thanks anyway.  I'll play with it in the VM I've got here.
<sbalneav> cberlo: umm, I think /etc/rc.local would be the better bet, I'm guessing.  But I'm not 100% up on my Debian policy, so some experimentation might be in order :)
<ari_stress> i've been asked are you sure you want to connect....
<sbalneav> ari_stress: then you don't have the right ssh keys in the chroot.
<sbalneav> sudo ltsp-update-sshkeys.
<cberlo> sbalneav: That was my initial preference, too -- but for some reason (although I have another script that fires up without issue from that file!) it doesn't create my directory at boot.
<sbalneav> cberlo: You might have to activate rc.local in the /etc/rc2.d
<ogra> sbalneav, ICMP ECHO REPLY
<sbalneav> I don't think it's on by default
<sbalneav> Morning ogra!!!!!
<ogra> sbalneav, what the heck is the cancel button for ?
<sbalneav> back home from Portland?
<cliebow_> ogra!!
<ogra> morning :)
<ogra> yep
<ogra> relaxed the whole weekend .... the return filght was horrible
<sbalneav> ogra: lets say user gets halfway logged in, then wants to just restart.
<sbalneav> Or do we not want that?
<ogra> ctrl-alt-backspace
<sbalneav> ah
<sbalneav> that works too :)
<ari_stress> YESSS!!!! it did it sbalneav!! i guess installing kubuntu-desktop erased the keys!!
<sbalneav> ok, I'll yank it out :)
<cberlo> sbalneav: It's on.  Had a script kicking off from it before.  Odd.  I should just rebuild my server, I'm thinking...  probably less work.  :)
<ari_stress> sbalneav: thank you so much!! :)
<ogra> if you urgently want it, make it optional
<cberlo> Hi ogra.
<ogra> hey cberlo
<ogra> sbalneav, apart from that, it crashes my via xserver on the T170
<ogra> the trident of the T150 works fine though
<sbalneav> No, nothing urgent.   Oh, quite possibly.
<sbalneav> which, ldm does?
<sbalneav> or the cancel button does?
<ogra> i guess the new greeter exposes an X bug that was thee before but not triggered
<cberlo> ogra: One year in, and I've still got permission to play with LTSP.  Installation has grown from 3 users to over 45, so far.  Not bad growth, but I'm still not running things in the "standard" LDM mode...
<ari_stress> ogra, sbalneav, then it's officially 90% done. I've setup Ubuntu+LTSP5+LDAPAuth+DynamicDNS :)
<ogra> the cancel button doesnt respawn ... apart from that it does wat it should ...
<ari_stress> thank you, i'll post something about this on the wiki if i may?
<ogra> i mean the X session on the T170 here starts but locks up hard during init
<ogra> tha didnt happen with the last ldm code i had in gutsy
<ogra> sbalneav, btw new ldm sexy++
<ogra> :D
<sbalneav> Hm
<sbalneav> Glad you like the ldm
<ogra> i do :)
<sbalneav> We'll have to fix that lockup though
<ogra> i really suspect its the X server
<ogra> i'll play with it now
<sbalneav> Did you see the nice message for bad passwords?
<ogra> yep
<sbalneav> And the message now for when sshkeys are bad.
<sbalneav> THAT's going to save us some work.
<ogra> ah, havent seen that yet
<ogra> i guess with some code to fill host, lang and session windows and some fine tuning of the ui we're done for gutsy :)
<sbalneav> Yes!
<sbalneav> Final stretch
<ogra> i want to switch most of the gnome hacks to ldm rc scripts as well
<ogra> i.e. screensaver only accepting blanking ...
<sbalneav> i18n!
<ogra> no suspend/hibernate
<ogra> right
<sbalneav> How do I mark which strings for translation!
<ogra> we need to add gettext t the headers
<ogra> the strings in the greeter should all be translatable
<ogra> just missing some intltool stuff i guess
<sbalneav> no, not all of them are.
<ogra> oh ?
<sbalneav> The bits where we interact with ssh, where I set LANG=C
<ari_stress> hmm strange, previously before installing kubuntu-desktop client can shutdown the server, but now they cannot, which is VERY GOOD :) i wonder why
<ogra> ah, thats fine
<ogra> just done prefix them with _(
<ogra> *dont
<sbalneav> Oh, is that what I do?
<ogra> no idea
<ogra> but such strings will be in the pot file thats used as translation base
<sbalneav> Is there a "i18n for dummies" guide out there somewhere?
<ogra> i think there is something n the gnome docs
<sbalneav> For dumb*ss North Americans like me who don't know bupkiss? :)
<ogra> http://developer.gnome.org/doc/tutorials/gnome-i18n/developer.html
<ogra> http://www.gnome.org/~malcolm/i18n/
<sbalneav> thx
<sbalneav> I'll poke through those.
<sbalneav> I'm pretty happy with gutsy's LTSP.
<sbalneav> I think it's gonna wow 'em
<ogra> essentially we only need
<ogra> #define _( gettext(String)
<ogra> or some such
<ogra> #define _(String) gettext(String)
<ogra> rather :)
<sbalneav> Although, according to that one user on ltsp-discuss, I have "attitude" :)
<ogra> the rest is done in the packaging anyway
<sbalneav> I'm such a troublemaker :)
<ogra> heh
<multik> hi ogra
<ogra> hey multik
<sbalneav> brb
<multik> I heard you got your hands on few thin clients ;)
<cliebow_> sbalneav, i saw that 8~
<cliebow_> brb
<multik> and I also heard that someone is cleaning that tarball :)
<ogra> multik, yep and Q-Funk had soma suggestion about the etherboot image creation, need to test that
<ogra> multik, which tarball ?
<multik> yes, it would be splendid if you could.
<multik> Umm, Q-Funk told me about that tarball, no idea what though, sorry.
<ogra> heh
<ogra> no idea either
<ogra> i'll do some testing this week
<multik> I'm wondering if what ever you are doing to fix that thin client boot issue will be fixed in Oct Edubuntu release
<ogra> for now i have to merge scotts new ldm stuff
<ogra> dont worry we'll get it fixed or at least get a howto out with workarounds if there are unfixable issues
<multik> oh, that would be great dude.
<ogra> but i'm pretty confident it will be fine for gutsy
<ogra> sbalneav, hmmm ... now my T150 locked up as well (without any login just sitting at the greeter for 20 min or so)
<sbalneav> ogra: That's bad.
<ogra> it didnt happen again yet
<sbalneav> ogra: Did you see I addressed a couple of other bugs, pitti's one in particular?
<ogra> the sound thing ?
<ogra> yes, thanks
<ogra> but i want to replace that by an ldm rc scrit as well anyway :)
<ogra> we dont need any of that server sided stuff anymore if it comes to settings in the session :)
<ogra> hmm
<ogra> the e2300 crashes as well
<ogra> even though it doesnt hardlock
<ogra> hmm, or does it ?
<sbalneav> Wonder if it's the cancel button.
<sbalneav> What happens if you revert that change?
<_MetaLMilitiA_> hi all!
<ogra> well
<ogra> it doesnt crash showing the greeter
<ogra> it dies if the session is half way started
<ogra> on the 170 it then hardlocks
<ogra> on the e2300 the X session dies
<ogra> oh, and it hardlocks (had to test that again)
<ogra> i wonder if we're missing a gfree or something
<sbalneav> possibly.
<ogra> but i cant see anything in the code
<sbalneav> Have you been able to log in AT ALL? or just some boxes hang?
<sbalneav> I'm wondering if your ssh is sending back different strings than mine :(
<ogra> i can log in fine on the T150
<sbalneav> hm
<ogra> the e2300 shows me an unthemed desktop and before g-s-d kicks in X dies
<ogra> hmm
<ogra> i wonder if it breaks because we're missing host.png
<ogra> even though i'd expect it to break earlier because of that
<sbalneav> Should have a host.png
<sbalneav> I added one to the repo.
<ogra> nope
<sbalneav> no?
<ogra> bzr added it ?
<sbalneav> yeah
<ogra> hmm
<ogra> not in my tree
<sbalneav> In mine at work.  I did a bzr pull this morning, and it sucked it down.
<ogra> oh, wait
<ogra> pixmaps != themes
* ogra is confused
<ogra> hmm, thats messy
<sbalneav> What happens if you manually copy it in the right place.
<ogra> should work
<sbalneav> Maybe I botched something on the auto* stuff to add that in.
<ogra> but that we have themes (containing pixmaps) and pixmaps (for the default theme) is a mess
<sbalneav> Ohh, also, I can't seem to do a dpkg-buildpackage any more
<ogra> i built it with the tree
<ogra> worked fine so far
<sbalneav> It complains about fields not being colon separated, or something.
<ogra> (note that you need to: debian/rules bzr-release)
<sbalneav> ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
<ogra> (and bump the changelog entry)
<ogra> with a bzr commit
<sbalneav> ok
<sbalneav> I'll try that later.
<ogra> debian/ldm.install has:
<ogra> client/ldmgtkgreet/themes usr/share/ldm/
<ogra> client/ldmgtkgreet/pixmaps/*.png usr/share/ldm/themes/ubuntu
<ogra> i need to copy it into the theme dirs
<ogra> we should better get rid of the pixmaps dir and only use the thems dir... but that gets tricky in the autofoo
<_MetaLMilitiA_> how i can boot 16 mb machines??? how i can strech initramfs to boot those machines??
<ogra> you cant
<_MetaLMilitiA_> :(
<ogra> the kernel alone needs more (24 i think)
<ogra> i managed to boot 28M clients with gutsy with some tricks
<ogra> but below that nothing will be possible
<_MetaLMilitiA_> we want to install edubuntu in chilean classrooms
<ogra> for feisty its still at least 48M
<_MetaLMilitiA_> but the clients are very old :(
<_MetaLMilitiA_> it's possible to run ltsp 4.2 on edubuntu??
<ogra> 16M wont work with 4.2 either
<_MetaLMilitiA_> ltsp 4.2 requires less ram i guess
<ogra> i think that needs 32 at least
<_MetaLMilitiA_> :(
<ogra> where we neeed 48
<ogra> get some ram
<ogra> i guess thats your only way ...
<ogra> even if you would make that boot it wouldnt be fun
* ogra calls it a day ... tomorrow is anough time to find out why X crashes ...
<_MetaLMilitiA_> mmm...we are using k12ltsp actually but we want to migrate to ubuntu
<_MetaLMilitiA_> what is the big difference of edubuntu vs k12??
<ogra> ltsp5
<ogra> http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/Ltsp5
<_MetaLMilitiA_> ok
<ogra> ltsp 4.x isnt developed anymore since 2 years
<_MetaLMilitiA_> so if i install ltsp 4.2 on edubuntu this should work?
<ogra> it wont be integrated at all, but might work
<ogra> but it wont boot 16M clients
<ogra> and it wont be upgradeable or security supported indeed
<_MetaLMilitiA_> why?? mi machines with 16MB on k12ltsp are booting right now
<ogra> with a recent k12 ?
<ogra> with 2.6 kernel etc ?
<_MetaLMilitiA_> nop, it's 4.2 k12
<ogra> a 2.6 kernel needs more than 16M to unpack already
<ogra> you can do a lot fiddling in the initramfs (i.e. mount nbd swap from the server from a file in tmpfs to extend ram)
<ogra> but you need the space the kernel needs to uncompress and to run the initramfs
<ogra> thats likely over 20M
<_MetaLMilitiA_> mmm...so i have to install a 2.4 kernel + ltsp 4.2 on edubuntu to work???
<ogra> yes, but be aware that anything might break ... thats a totally unsupported and untested setup
<_MetaLMilitiA_> :o
<ogra> (actually you are the first person asking about less than 24M in my two years of ltsp work i'm doing)
<_MetaLMilitiA_> :P
<_MetaLMilitiA_> we are from chile, we work in the edulinux proyect
<_MetaLMilitiA_> project :P
<ogra> so is there no way for you to upgrade the HW ?
<ogra> it will really be no fun to care for a setup you are aiming for
<_MetaLMilitiA_> the chilean's gov bought ram 1 year ago.. but many clients are 16 MB with this upgrade
<ogra> well, 16M is definately to less ofr any recent software version
<_MetaLMilitiA_> the problem it's that edulinux doesn't have a plataform to support upgrades and bugs...by the way edubuntu have it. that's the reason because we want to migrate to edubuntu
<ogra> i understand
<ogra> but still
<ogra> ltsp5 never supported less than 48M (gutsy will drop that to 28 in october) ltsp 4.2 in its last release defaulted to a 2.6.18 kernel which surely needs more than 16M to even boot
<ogra> and the last ltsp 4.2 release was 2 years ago
<_MetaLMilitiA_> :(
<_MetaLMilitiA_> well...i think that buy more ram is the only solution
<_MetaLMilitiA_> and wait to gusty
<_MetaLMilitiA_> gutsy
<_MetaLMilitiA_> thanks for your help
<ogra> get the HW half way up to date and plan for the future :) ram requirements wont drop but raise  ...
<ogra> try to get a decent ram upgrade so you dont need to do it for the next two years (i.e. 64M)
<_MetaLMilitiA_> ;)
<ogra> for such old systems you should be able to get ram on ebay for nearly no money
* ogra now really calls it a day, night all
<Raiden329> aze you name stealer!!!!!!
<aze> yep ?
<aze> sorry, have just read
<aze> for information, i'm register, not him :p
<Wrinkliez> hey i tried to install this, but it said job control not found
<Wrinkliez> can someone help plz?
<Wrinkliez> it seems like a common problem
<ray_> hi any one here
<ray_> !ask
<ubotu> Don't ask to ask a question. Just ask your question :)
<Fuzz> x_x
<sbalneav> Afternoon all
<Wrinkliez> anyone out there for support?
<sbalneav> Yep
<sbalneav> What's up
<Wrinkliez> hi :) I tried to install edbuntu and give linux a shot, and when I tried to install it said cannot acces tty job control not found
<Wrinkliez> :/
<sbalneav> This is on what, booting up the live cd?
<Wrinkliez> yea
<sbalneav> What kind of machine is this you're trying to boot on?
<Wrinkliez> do you mean desktop? or the specs?
<sbalneav> Specs, what brand, cpu, how much memory, etc.
<Wrinkliez> ah
<Wrinkliez> hold on
<Wrinkliez> AMD Athlon(tm) XP 1800+ 1.54 GHz, 768 MB of RAM
<Wrinkliez>  umm
<sbalneav> k, what kind of video card?
<sbalneav> You could try this
<sbalneav> at the boot screen, press f6
<sbalneav> then boot with the option linux noacpi
<Fuzz> hey sorry about that
<Fuzz> anyways my videocard is NVIDIA GeForce 6200
<sbalneav> You could try this
<sbalneav> at the boot screen, press f6
<sbalneav> at the boot screen, press f6
<sbalneav> then boot with the option linux noacpi
<Wrinkliez2> nope it didnt work
<Wrinkliez2> still the same error
<sbalneav> Have you checked the cd to make sure the burn is good?
<Wrinkliez2> nope x_x
<Wrinkliez2> you mean in the boot menu right?
<sbalneav> right.
<Wrinkliez2> i think its fine but ill double check
<Wrinkliez> i got the same error in testing the cd, does that mean its a bad burn?
<sbalneav> yep
<Wrinkliez> figures
<Wrinkliez> lol
<Wrinkliez> thanks alot
<Wrinkliez> ^.^
<sbalneav> np
#edubuntu 2007-07-31
<Wrinkliez> can anyone help me with the cant access tty problem?
<LaserJock> Wrinkliez: what specifically is the problem?
<Wrinkliez> when I try to install it, it says it cant access tty; job control not found
<Wrinkliez> it's not the cd and i tried linux noacpi infront of the boot
<Wrinkliez> but it always just goes back to that error
<LaserJock> are you trying to install Edubuntu?
<Wrinkliez> does someone know how to fix the cannot access tty job control turned off problem?
<LaserJock> ogra: edubuntu-addon-meta has been approved/promoted and cjwatson has been pinged to apply my debian-cd patch
<LaserJock> ogra: hopefully in the next couple dailies we'll see it show up
<cynics> ogra: as to the bug #128236
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 128236 in edubuntu-meta "Edubuntu (Feisty) install uses uncomplete Chinese font" [Wishlist,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/128236
<cynics> ogra: we'd at least add chinese fonts to recommends of edubuntu-meta
<ogra> cynics, fonts are huge, the CD is full, what should i drop ?
<cynics> ogra: maybe you need a DVD  :)
<ogra> no
<cynics> but it shall be added to edubuntu-meta's Recommends
<ogra> 80% of edubuntu users are even happy to find a CD reader anywhere
<ogra> that would mean it is on the CD
<cynics> I see
<ogra> it is in the supported seed anyway ... (i.e. main)
<ogra> adding it anywhere else would pull it on one or both CDs
<cynics> anyway we'd solve it :)
<ogra> all langpacks we have are on the server-addon Cd ... so if you do an install from there and add the language support package from the addon CD it should work
<ogra> we can put fonts on the addon CD as well if that helps you ....
<ogra> thats the area where we have some spare space
<ogra> for the desktop CD i dont see a solution without dropping something else
<yeipi_> sbalneav: I think the best thing I have to do is downgrade to ltsp 4.2...
<cliebow_> yeipi, cause....?
<cliebow_> low mwmory/
<cliebow_> low memory...?
<yeipi_> cliebow: sorry man.
<yeipi_> cliebow: clients with 16 mb ram :)
<yeipi_> so low!
<cliebow_> yeah..tough..
<yeipi_> :)
<yeipi_> bye
<ogra> even with 4.2 16M wont be any fun
<bddebian> Heya
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* mode/#edubuntu [+o ogra]  by ChanServ
<DBO> thank you ogra =)
* mode/#edubuntu [+b *!*@*.woh.res.rr.com]  by ogra
* hormesis was kicked off #edubuntu by ogra (ogra)
<DBO> erm... banning half an ISP is fun and all...
<ogra> heh, sorry, i'll fix that ... not used to op'ing
<DBO> I can help you out if need be, I op around in #ubuntu*
* gnomefreak goes to check the others he wasnt banned in
<DBO> I got him in #ubuntu and #kubuntu
<gnomefreak> ok i got him in xubuntu
<DBO> I been whoising him, those are the only other places hes been
<ogra> rm, how do i unban ?
<ogra> chanserv doesnt like me
<DBO> erm your client should have a nice easy ban list you can use
<ogra> ah, cool, thanks :)
* mode/#edubuntu [-bb *!*@*.woh.res.rr.com *!*@cpc1-cosh6-0-0-cust948.cos2.cable.ntl.com]  by ogra
<DBO> freenode staff has talked to him and hes gone offline, its up to you if you want to put a ban back in place
<ogra> if he shows up again i'll do
<tuhl> ping ogra
<moquist> ogra: I've uploaded an initial go at wwwconfig-less moodle in REVU...just FYI.
<LaserJock> moquist: oh? :-)
<moquist> ha! googling "ubuntu revu" returns my password-recovery nopaste first. :-O
<moquist> LaserJock: yeah, take a look. please. :)
<moquist> LaserJock: I haven't actually made any testing progress since we last spoke, though.
<moquist> er, IRCed
<salaud> hello...   I have a question about LTSP on ubuntu... hope this is the right place..  I need to know how to make a different screen come up by default.. I have both an ldm session on one screen and rdesktop on another
<salaud> no matter what I have tried so far I always get the LDM screen by default
#edubuntu 2007-08-01
<Burgundavia> here is something ironic: CIO recommends SUSE for thin clietns over ubuntu
<Burgundavia> http://www.cio.com/article/print/126702
<LaserJock> oh Burgundavia, you're here
<Burgundavia> hey LaserJock
<LaserJock> your former colleagues are bugging me today ;-)
<Burgundavia> heh
<Burgundavia> what about?
<LaserJock> the usual
<LaserJock> Desktop Multiplier should be updated
<LaserJock> Burgundavia: they're still trying to get it into Feisty
<Burgundavia> right, have you emailed them the SRU documentation?
<LaserJock> no, I just gave an explanation an pointed out the release schedule
<Burgundavia> given the binary nature of d-m, I would say an SRU is acceptable
<LaserJock> yeah, but we don't do new upstream releases in -updates
<Burgundavia> LaserJock: what about flashplayer?
<LaserJock> hmm, you're right
<Burgundavia> this is pretty much purely binary crap
<LaserJock> I'm not sure if I can get away with an SRU (no data loss bug, etc.) but at least there is precedent there
<Burgundavia> I don't honestly trust Jason, so meh
<Burgundavia> remember, I have seen Userful's "QA" policies
<LaserJock> heh
<LaserJock> he's going to test his new package on Gutsy and get back to me
<LaserJock> so I'm off the hook for a little bit
<moquist> Burgundavia: Yeah, that is ironic. I'm not sure how he could recommend SUSE for TCs unless he's ignorant of the entire direction of the LTSP.
<Burgundavia> moquist: likely he doesn't know about it
<moquist> I thougt the comparison of SUSE-Windows and Ubuntu-Mac was interesting.
<moquist> It may explain part of why I can't stand SUSE.
<sbalneav> Well.  Multi host to do now.
<sbalneav> Man, been a busy couple of days.
<johanisrembet> Hari ini saya telah terima. Terima kasih atas kiriman 6 cd ubuntu.
<encompass> howdy all... working on my GSoC project PyStart and hope you guys can help... I am looking for the deb package that would have this in it... I need this module to safely run students code inside of pystart.
<encompass> http://pypi.python.org/pypi/RestrictedPython/3.4.2#print
<cliebow> ogra is around here somewhere....
<encompass> does he know this kinda stuff?
<encompass> I jsut found out it is part of the Zope system if it gives any hints
<ogra> thats in zope3
<encompass> bingo
<ogra> i dont know this kinda stuff ;)
<ogra> but i know where to look
<ogra> http://packages.ubuntu.com/cgi-bin/search_contents.pl?word=RestrictedPython&searchmode=searchfilesanddirs&case=insensitive&version=feisty&arch=i386
* encompass clicks
<ogra> intresting that koffice duplicated the code here
<encompass> they did... they should have it as a separate package so I can use it :P  I don't see any other way of testing untrusted code then threw this.  But if I just use the egg then it screws up my program going into edubuntu sooner
<encompass> ogra: should I make a package of this along with my GSoC project?
<ogra> given that schooltool will likely be shipped again this release, we'll have zope aboard in edubuntu
<encompass> It would be a pain but my guess the only way
<encompass> ok
<ogra> talk to doko, he makes such decisions for our python stack
<ogra> in case you want a separate package
<ogra> hving koffice ship its own *and* a third project using it might justify that
<encompass> yeah... otherwise PyStart required zope3 :P
<encompass> how best should I talk to doko?
<encompass> threw pete?
<ogra> either yourself in #ubuntu-devel or through your mentor
<ogra> doko is a nice guy he wont eat you ;) just explain the prob
<encompass> thanks I will hope over
* encompass hopes
* encompass hops :D
<Eelloe> Goeden avond allen tesamen
<Eelloe> can somone help me with a network problem ??
<LaserJock> now where did RichEd run off too :-)
<jsgotangco> greetings from Bangkok
<LaserJock> hi  jerome
<jsgotangco> hey jordan, hows it going
* jsgotangco has a pretty toxic sched lately
<LaserJock> man, it's been rough
<LaserJock> the laser went down at work
<LaserJock> I spent over a week debugging electronics, etc.
<jsgotangco> yikes
<jsgotangco> ive been living in planes for 2 weeks already!
<LaserJock> yeah
<bddebian> Heya
<SimonAnibal> RichEd, hey there, how are you today?
<RichEd> hey SimonAnibal ... struggling with a head cold and fuzzy brain ... courtesy of a 31 hour travel + jet lag + getting home to a snotty wife
<RichEd> but alive and kicking
<SimonAnibal> Right on, I've been doing a bit of travel lately myself
<SimonAnibal> Except I was doing it for vacation
<SimonAnibal> Not that it was relaxing because of that, but at least I was inflicting it on myself ;-)
<RichEd> :) was just about to ask if the new job was opening up the world to you
<SimonAnibal> I'm certainly learning a lot at the new job
<RichEd> where did you go ? head down south for a bit?
<SimonAnibal> I love it, and I'm exhausted as all getout after work
<RichEd> jillc: ping
<SimonAnibal> Yeah, I went home to Venezuela for about 3 week
<RichEd> SimonAnibal: nice ... me needs to get to South America some time ... may go to brazil in september
<SimonAnibal> Well, assuming it's as beautiful as Venezuela ;-) you'll love it
<SimonAnibal> Hey, there's a conference going on here that might interest you in October
<SimonAnibal> http://www.openmindsconference.org
<RichEd> SimonAnibal: I come from a Southern Continent myself ... real nature ... not the tame kind
<SimonAnibal> The guy who spearheads the 1:1 access program in the state is putting it up
<RichEd> tom hoffman has already probed me about that ... it's being organised by our mutual connection - your and my first interaction mr huffman
<SimonAnibal> RichEd, I was planning on going camping about as far from civilization as one can still get with a car, but my dad's car wasn't up to the task, so we postponed that for next year
<RichEd> (and he's no relation to felicity i presume)
<SimonAnibal> RichEd, nods, he was the keynote speaker at the CINLUG meeting you asked me to attend on Canonical's behalf
<SimonAnibal> RichEd, I'm afraid that reference is lost on me
<RichEd> SimonAnibal: use the thumb transport :)
<RichEd> feilicy huffman is one of the desperate housewives actresses ... married to william h macy
<SimonAnibal> I see, Transamerica
<SimonAnibal> I never got to see that one
<RichEd> yes indeed :)
<SimonAnibal> I did see Magnolia...
<SimonAnibal> Mike made it a point to get me a card about the conference when he saw my new boss at NECC this year
<SimonAnibal> It seems that next year's NECC will be taking place during my honeymoon, so I won't get to go to that one either
<SimonAnibal> *shrug* I don't think I'll be worrying too much about it
<RichEd> difficult choice ... option 1: surrounded by geeks ... option 2: alone with a new bride .... erm ...
<RichEd> mind you ... some of the hacker types I know may chose option 1 :)
* RichEd heads off for some dinner
<SimonAnibal> RichEd, I would never live it down if I did
<SimonAnibal> I've already had to push the wedding back a couple of weeks because of my new job
* RichEd whacks SimonAnibal over the head with a keyboard for even considering it ;P
<SimonAnibal> RichEd, richly deserved
<SimonAnibal> if I had been serious, at least ;-)
<LaserJock> I don't know
<LaserJock> option 1 can be a lot of fun
<RichEd> well if your jockstrap is made of light ... maybe :)
<RichEd> but if you are packing ... option 2 is better
<LaserJock> I'm ... not even going there
<RichEd> SimonAnibal prolly won't invite others along
<RichEd> me heads off for some food before he (1) starves or (2) offends someone
<SimonAnibal> Ummm, no, not for the honeymoon. We'll be alone (or as alone as possible, at least) on a tropical archipelago resort. I'm not usually one for going "non-native" and getting the fancy treatment, but I figure that if there's one time in life when it's appropriate, it's the honeymoon
<nixternal> shhhhhh! you guys are talking to much in here :)
<SimonAnibal> sorry
* SimonAnibal goes back to idling (food!)
<jillc> Hello from Arizona.
<LaserJock> hello
<LaserJock> from Nevada
<bddebian> Hello from Pennsylvania
<ogra> hello from germany (even though i'm not officially here until meeting starts :))
<LaserJock> ogra: where in Germany?
<ogra> kassel
<ogra> hess
<ogra> ah, no its hesse in english ...
* ogra pats his dictionary
<bddebian> heh
<LaserJock> I think it's weird how the same place is called different things in different languages
<jillc> Hi LaserJock, did you get storms yesterday?
<LaserJock> kassel is just as good as hesse to me
<ogra> heh
<LaserJock> jillc: hmm, no. It doesn't exactly storm too much here. I'm in Reno so probably too far north for you
<jillc> probably much cooler too!
<ogra> LaserJock, http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=kassel+heinrich-zille+str.+5&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=31.013085,58.886719&ie=UTF8&ll=51.293834,9.46279&spn=0.011942,0.028753&t=k&z=15&om=1
<ogra> ;)
<LaserJock> jillc: perhaps, it's been 100+ this week
<LaserJock> ogra: it looks green
<jillc> Yes, 100+ here too.  Day after day
<ogra> kind of ...
<LaserJock> ogra: mine's not so green, http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=6482+Oneida+Ct,+Sun+Valley,+NV+89433&sll=50.526495,9.004442&sspn=4.358581,8.118896&ie=UTF8&ll=39.610978,-119.7628&spn=0.010315,0.015857&t=k&z=16&iwloc=addr&om=1
<ogra> to be honest i didnt really examine the environment yet ... in the one year i live here
<LaserJock> lol
<ogra> seems like you have a nice view over the edge from that place
<LaserJock> hah
<LaserJock> view of desert
<LaserJock> sand and sagebrush
<ogra> yeah
<jillc> Beautiful sunsets though, yes?
<LaserJock> yes
<LaserJock> although not as good as the Montana sunsets I grew up with ;-)
<jillc> there are few places that can rival Montana for their sunsets.
<LaserJock> amen to that
<jillc> when does the meeting start?  do I have time to grab a sandwich?
<LaserJock> I think it's at noon
<ogra> if you go into #ubuntu-meeting and type: @now it will tell you :)
<LaserJock> or maybe 1:00
<jillc> okay, I'm off to make a PBJ.
<LaserJock> it's at 1:00, UTC 20:00 -7
<LaserJock> ogra: how long does it take to drive to Frankfurt from your house?
<ogra> about 2h
<ogra> hannover is nearer
<stgraber> I won't be able to attend the meeting tonight :(
<LaserJock> bummer
<will_> darn, freenode won't let me use my nick
<LaserJock> will_: that's no good, why not?
<will_> says "will" is already in use
<will_> also seems my nickserv password is not being accepted
<RichEd> hey willvdl
<LaserJock> meeting in 7min?
<LaserJock> or 6 now
<RichEd> === edubuntu meeting in 5 min === in #ubuntu-meeting ===
<willvdl> aha, it's me!
<RichEd> LaserJock: 5.5 min
<LaserJock> willvdl: \o/
<RichEd> hey will_
<willvdl> hey hey
<RichEd> how was the vacation willvdl ?
<willvdl> it's still good :)
<RichEd> hi mr hoffman
<th1a> hi RichEd.
<th1a> RichEd: We've got to catch up sometime soon.
<th1a> Oh, I'm in the wrong channel for the meeting.
<RichEd> th1a: been looking at those dates for k12 open minds ... nothing else cose by that I can piggyback on
<RichEd> === edubuntu meeting now === in #ubuntu-meeting ===
<nixternal> just so you guys know, if there is any kde help you may need, I am available on that part if Riddell is busy or out partying past his bed time
<LaserJock> nixternal: I think we need to make sure edubuntu-docs will work for khelpcenter
<nixternal> we will have to change <ulink type="ghelp" "whatever.xml"> ro <ulink type="help" url="help:/edubuntu/whatever">
<nixternal> ro? s/ro/to
<LaserJock> doesn't khelpcenter need HTML?
<nixternal> nope, it can do .docbook, but not .xml
<LaserJock> heh, so just rename the files
<nixternal> yup, but you would still have to change the <ulinks> if you did them with the type="help"
<nixternal> I want to .docbook for Kubuntu docs so you don't have to build anything
<LaserJock> cool
<LaserJock> I don't *think* we have an ghelp links
<LaserJock> but we can check
<nixternal> but can Yelp do .docbook?
<LaserJock> nixternal: I have no idea, doesn't really matter though
<LaserJock> I think they have to go to different paths anyway, so we can simlink or copy
<RichEd> ---> meeting continuation ... here <---
<LaserJock> so, the meeting proposal
<highvoltage> hey
<RichEd> can I chat about a proposed agenda for splitting the meeting into 2 x 1 hour
<RichEd> to see if it makes sense ...
<RichEd> The old meeting agenda was:
<RichEd> # Technical
<RichEd> # Documentation
<RichEd> # Art Work
<RichEd> # Web Sites
<RichEd> # Community
<RichEd> # Management & Planning
<RichEd> # Any other Matters Arising
<RichEd> and that ran over 2 hours
<RichEd> and the agenda was quite loose ... so things could drag out a bit
<RichEd> so there has been a proposal  bounced around about splitting the meeting into 2
<RichEd> #1 technical - 1 hour - led by Oliver
* ogra_ nods
<RichEd> #2 community & contributors -  1 hour - led by Richard
<pips1> +1
<RichEd> so I've played around with splitting the agenda, and giving it more structure ...
<RichEd> would this work ... as a starting suggestion:
<RichEd> #1 : Edubuntu Technical - Product
<RichEd>  1 HOUR led by Oliver
<RichEd>  * Development : General
<RichEd>  * Development : Activities for the past week
<RichEd>  * Current Release Cycle
<RichEd>   - next deadline
<RichEd>   - what's needed / outstanding
<RichEd>   * Coding
<RichEd>   * Testing
<RichEd>   * Documentation
<RichEd>   * Artwork
<RichEd>  * Upstream news
<ogra_> do you plan a second doc run in the second part `
<RichEd> (comment: where we are in the release cycle and next deadline i think would be good to have as a context each time)
<ogra_> ?
<RichEd> well let me put that up:
<RichEd> #2 Edubuntu Community & Contributors
<RichEd>  1 HOUR led by Richard
<RichEd>  * Edubuntu Members
<RichEd>   - new people applying / joining / introducing themselves
<RichEd>   - approvals : 1st meeting of every month
<RichEd>  * Edubuntu Documentation Team
<RichEd>  * Edubuntu Handbook Contributors
<RichEd>  * Edubuntu Artwork
<RichEd>  * Edubuntu Advocacy
<RichEd>  * Websites
<RichEd>   - www.edubuntu.org
<RichEd>   - wiki.edubuntu.com
<RichEd>   - community
<RichEd>  * Community General
<RichEd>  * Partner Projects
<RichEd>  * Upcoming
<RichEd>   - Events / Conferences / Expos
<RichEd> (comment: so the second part would revolve more around the LP group activities
<LaserJock> RichEd: did you get my email about this?
<RichEd> LaserJock: what was the subject ... let me check
<ogra_> i dont think we should duplicate artwork and doc efforts ...
<RichEd> nb ... the above is just a suggestion ... we need to decide as a group
<ogra_> i'd put a * Genreal in place so if there are really art or doc issues related to tech we can discuss that there
<RichEd> ogra_: the first meeting would revolve around art for deadline ...
<LaserJock> RichEd: "Edubuntu meeting notes"
<ogra_> but the master part should stay in one hand for both
<RichEd> but the 2nd one would be more about the people ... and mentoring ... introducing people into the contributor community
* RichEd was trying to work out how to do this ... how would we resolve that ?
<LaserJock> well, I've got a couple comments
<RichEd> LaserJock: checking mail now ...
* RichEd listens intently
<LaserJock> 1) this is too big and it's too rigid. We don't have people for most of that
<ogra_> well, i wont have much to talk about in the tech part for docs ... and i see the content management/decisions rather in the second meeting
<LaserJock> 2) it seems like the idea was to divide technical from non-technical but it looks more like Canonical vs non-Canonical, which is not a good message
<RichEd> LaserJock: that was not at all my intention ... it did not even occur to me
<ogra_> to me neither, but now i know why i didnt like art and docs in the dev part :)
<LaserJock> of course,  I know you don't intend that
<RichEd> LaserJock: just scanned your mail ... we are on the same wavelength :)
<LaserJock> my suggestion, briefly, was the following:
<ogra_> "#1 : Edubuntu Technical - Product" is the title :) we should soften that a bit
<RichEd> perhaps a simple summary of the split i proposed above is almost:
<RichEd> #1 work to deadline
<ogra_> make that just "edubuntu development"
<RichEd> #2 life outside the deadline and how to get involved
<LaserJock> 1) ogra's section be shortish 30min maybe with Development Team style reports from Edubuntu devs
<RichEd> ogra_: a thought just occured to me:
<RichEd> #1 edubuntu-devel
<ogra_> LaserJock, sounds good
<RichEd> #2 edubuntu-usersd
<RichEd> #2 edubuntu-users
<ogra_> right
<LaserJock> yes, that's better
<ogra_> LaserJock, well, thats usually what i do ...
<ogra_> so beyond the fact that there are not many devs its similar to a distro team meeting :)
<RichEd> ogra_: the reason I see that we need art / docs potentially in part 1 is to note what is needed for deadlines
<RichEd> those actiond can carry over into part 2 for people to tackle
<LaserJock> ogra_: well, perhaps we need to more formally do that though, beyond just you
<RichEd> same for docs
<ogra_> RichEd, right, i think if we face art or doc deadlines it makes sense for devs having docs to contribute to attend the second meeting
<LaserJock> yes, part one should be status reports from the devels/leads
<ogra_> LaserJock, so that would be you and me then ? :)
<LaserJock> mostly to start with
<RichEd> ogra_: indeed ... but in part 1 the "project manager"  brings the action items to the table with status
<LaserJock> but also an art lead
<ogra_> sbalneav if he attends
<LaserJock> and if we get some more MOTUs them too
<ogra_> right
<LaserJock> anybody working on a spec, etc.
<RichEd> so that we help take the pressure off ogra and have less stuff rattling around in his head
<LaserJock> what happens now is we start of with status reports and end in a free-for-all
<ogra_> RichEd, my had isnt the worrying part of my body :)
<jillc> I'm glad to know that other people's heads rattle too
* RichEd thinks we are getting somewhere ... taking shape better now
<LaserJock> I think if we tie the first part to edubuntu-devel discussions
<LaserJock> so we don't have to use the meeting for all tech discussions
<RichEd> LaserJock: explan that in a few more words
<LaserJock> well
* RichEd is slow with a head cold tonight
<LaserJock> when I get to the meeting I feel like I gotta get everything talked about
<LaserJock> because this is the one time in the week when everybody is around
<pips1> ogra: LOL
<LaserJock> but really when a topic needs a good discussion it should be moved to the mailing list
<LaserJock> if it can be worked out in a couple minutes fine
<RichEd> LaserJock: agreed ... but do you think there should be some crossover between the meeting and the mail list
<LaserJock> but I think the tech part would be good to be mostly a : this is what I did this week, this is what I'm doing next week, and this is problems I'm having
<RichEd> like would it make sense to discuss some of the mail list posts (solutions / unsolved issues) in the meeting
<LaserJock> and if the "problems I'm having" is non-trivial it should go to the mailing list
<LaserJock> well, I would imagine it would go from IRC -> mailing list not the other way around, but it could
<LaserJock> but I think we can handle the tech part in probably 15 min normally
<RichEd> ^ LaserJock : agreed what I did, and doing etc. but i also think a quick recap of the current place in the 6 month dev cycle would help a lot
<LaserJock> yes
<RichEd> here is a paste of the significant stages in the cycle:
<pips1> I agree too
<LaserJock> my point was that if we are effectively using the mailing list we don't need to use the meeting as a troubleshooting session
<RichEd> * Toolchain Uploaded
<RichEd> * Development Summit
<RichEd> * Specifications must be finalized, translations exported from LP
<RichEd> * Tribe CD 1
<RichEd> * DebianImportFreeze
<RichEd> * Remaining upstream merges completed, Rebuild Test
<RichEd> * Tribe CD 2
<RichEd> * Server Team Sprint (Mon-Fri)
<RichEd> * Developer Sprint (Mon-Fri)
<RichEd> * Tribe CD 3
<RichEd> * Tribe CD 4
<RichEd> * FeatureFreeze, /!\ UpstreamVersionFreeze , /!\ ArtworkDeadlineOne, /!\ UVF Universe
<RichEd> * Rebuild Test, Upgrade Testing begins
<RichEd> * ArtworkDeadlineTwo, /!\ NewPackagesFreezeUniverse
<RichEd> * Tribe CD 6
<RichEd> * StringFreeze
<RichEd> * BetaFreeze, /!\ GutsyArtworkFinalDeadline
<RichEd> * Rebuild Test
<RichEd> * BetaRelease
<RichEd> * NonLanguagePackTranslationDeadline, /!\ KernelFreeze
<RichEd> * Rebuild Test
<RichEd> * ReleaseCandidate, /!\ LanguagePackTranslationDeadline
<RichEd> * FinalRelease
<RichEd> * Development Summit
<RichEd> ---
<LaserJock> it should just be status reports and making sure everything is on track
<RichEd> so i think a few words from ogra each week about what has passed and what is next would help (1) the process and deadlines and (2) the understanding of a lot of people
<ogra_> agreed
<RichEd> so that they understand the cycle
<RichEd> and the language
<RichEd> ogra_: agreed with me ? or LaserJock or both
<ogra_> with you in any case
<pips1> hehe
<LaserJock> ok, so, status reports from devs/team leads and then "upcoming deadlines"
<RichEd> i'd be in favour of a weekly status ... report and update
<ogra_> i'm not sure about the part of the weekly reports, since thats means to me to do it twice
<LaserJock> ogra_: well, it'll be mostly trivial
<RichEd> so that we have the same weekly template, with a few items updated
<ogra_> (i am attending the distro team meetings a swell)
<LaserJock> ogra_: I'm not thinking as formal as the Devel Meetings
<RichEd> ogra_: i'd hope that you can tell us in IRC and someone else do the updates
<ogra_> LaserJock, right
<LaserJock> what you are doing now mostly
<ogra_> RichEd, well, i have to mail in my weekly reports anyway... but i'm quite happy thats on an optional base for me atm ...
<RichEd> it wouldf even be better if we had someone else walk you through the items each week, to make sure all things are convered, and updated
<ogra_> a secretary :)
<RichEd>  <snap> like a secretary ...
<RichEd> :)
<RichEd> then minutes become easier to take and publish and more effective
<LaserJock> ok, so is everybody on the same page for the first part?
<ogra_> yep
<RichEd> instead of a list of the meeting conversation in all it's glory
<RichEd> LaserJock: seems to me ... yes
<pips1> LaserJock: I agree that we should try to keep the meeting time down to a necessary minimum, and I think the status updates will insure that, but I also see that sometimes, it happens that some developers that do volunteer work might attend a meeting "without warning" and they then need to discuss a certain thing they are working on, and that technical discussion might take up anywhere from 10-30 mins...
<ogra_> pips1, thats why we have 1h for that :)
<RichEd> i'm happy to make a wiki page with the proposede agenda (as per these discussions) down for editing / comments, agreement next week
<ogra_> if we ever find we need more we can do that
<RichEd> and i'll try to create a weekly status template
<RichEd> i'll also act as the secretary for a week or three to get the minutes going
* RichEd will *not* sit on ogra's knee while taking notes though
<ogra> :(
* ogra was hoping for a miniskirt as well :P
<LaserJock> pips1: I think that's what the mailing list is for
<RichEd> ogra: what size are you ?
<ogra> o_O
<jillc> I need to run.  It was nice meeting all of you.  I've enjoyed it. You guys are funny.
<ogra> ciao jillc, thanks for dropping by :)
<RichEd> thanks jillc
<LaserJock> jillc: yes, nice to meet you. Thanks for stepping up to help with art
<RichEd> chat to you in email soon
<RichEd> LaserJock: so for part two ... i think we are in agreement as well ... on intention
<LaserJock> part two should be user oriented
<RichEd> my thought was to based the meetings around the lp groups ...
<LaserJock> trying to get feedback, "How do I get involved?" etc.
<LaserJock> I suggested in my email that we might do a Top 5 user complaints
<RichEd> LaserJock: yep ... we're i'n agreement ... and the getting involved should be based around a group
<LaserJock> kinda
<LaserJock> my concern is that we don't really have very strong groups
<RichEd> with tasks listed, and people to mentor / assist etc.
<LaserJock> so we need to build that first
<RichEd> and conversely, if we have a group in LP with 20 members, and none of them ever attends a meeting, how does that help ?
<pips1> LaserJock: yes, ideally, i agree. but I think there is a "soft" problem with the mailing list... people are more aware that a mailing post reaches a larger audience, so I suspect they hesitate to write about something that is not a bit thought out... but development discussions sometimes are also "informal" and "half baked", so people are more confortable with IRC for that...
<RichEd> and perhaps we also need a LP group to match the mail list ... edubuntu-users
<LaserJock> pips1: kinda, but a meeting is not the place for it either ;-)
* RichEd is just throwing out ideas and is happy to be shot down if they do not make sense
<LaserJock> I think we have to many LP groups anyway
<ogra> ++
<LaserJock> forget the groups/teams
<LaserJock> lets focus on people first
<RichEd> LaserJock: precisely ... so let's cull the dead wood
<RichEd> (LP groups II mean)
<LaserJock> once we have enough people then they will naturally for teams
<LaserJock> *form
<LaserJock> so to start with I think the second part needs to have two elements:
<LaserJock> 1) giving users a voice
<pips1> Laserjock: ok, agreed. I'm all with you that we should be clear what we want to encourage ("idea process"), reality will always differ slightly :-)
<LaserJock> 2) giving people easy things they can do to help out
<pips1> *("ideal process")
<LaserJock> pips1: sure, there's always some room for that ;-) but the tech section should really take < 30 min
<RichEd> LaserJock: i'd say swap the order ... 1) help out discussions ... contributors 2) user voice / discussions
<LaserJock> 5-10 for reports and say 20 for tech discussion
<LaserJock> well, I don't think the order is really that important
<LaserJock> and making a rigid agenda doesn't work all that well
<LaserJock> people should be adding agenda items to the wiki
<LaserJock> it helps them show up when they are responsible for an item
<RichEd> LaserJock: agreed on wiki agenda
<LaserJock> you just gotta provide enough reason for them to show up in the first place ;-)
<RichEd> but having sections to prompt ideas is good ... even if no items are filed for any particular week
<LaserJock> sure
<RichEd> how long would you see the meeting(s) ...
<LaserJock> I think 1.5 hrs
<RichEd> ogra: doesn't tech take up to an hour around testing time ?
<ogra> it can, yes
<LaserJock> 30 min for tech, 1 hr for non-tech
<ogra> but thats special time
<RichEd> LaserJock: why not have 2 meetings 1 hour each
<RichEd> 1: edubuntu-devel
<LaserJock> because that's an aweful lot for people doing both
<RichEd> 2\: edubuntu-users
<LaserJock> I'd like to see 1 hr for the whole thing tbh
<pips1> LaserJock: who would do both besides the people here, ie ogra, RichEd, possibly you?
<LaserJock> I think many people would want to show up for both
<pips1> hmm
<RichEd> So I think we can structure the part 2 in a way that ogra wold be able to leave after 90 mins
<LaserJock> maybe people wouldn't talk a lot during the first part
<LaserJock> but it's still interesting
<LaserJock> but of course all this can be adjusted
<RichEd> the last half of part two would be teacher / user / event / project stuff that would not be needed for the tech people
<LaserJock> I'd say start with a sane length then adjust if we're either running out of time constantly or spending 1/2 the time twiddling our thumbs
<RichEd> and the first half of part one would not be needed for the user people ...
<ogra> well, there is overlap ...
<LaserJock> I think it's going to be a fight to get people to show up, honestly
<LaserJock> I don't see a lot of teachers on IRC
<ogra> in the mentioned testing times before release i need users to help testing
<RichEd> but if we split the meeting into 2 and aim at each mailing list for announcements and agenda ... I am sure we would get more users
<pips1> for me, the problem is that i'm interested in a tech update, but often the tech goes into a long discussion and then general chatter, and I can hang around for that... just because I really want to be there for the last item "community", and then it turns out that the "community" item get's dropped altogether, because nobody is there anymore...
<RichEd> ogra: again, the proposal works for that ... the testing requirements are updated with status and deadline in the 1st meeting
<RichEd> and community users can pick up tasks in part 2
<ogra> which the users dont attend
<LaserJock> pips1: yep, that's why I think we need short tech section with moving non-trivial discussions to mailing list
<RichEd> ogra: they do not need to understand how you wrote the code they are volunteering to test
<pips1> *I can't hang around
<ogra> but they want testplans and have questions
<LaserJock> well, there's certainly going to be overlap
<LaserJock> that's why I don't see this as two separate meetings
<ogra> i'm fine to attend the second meeting these times
<LaserJock> most people *should* attend both
<ogra> but the structure doesnt reflect reality in this case
<RichEd> ogra; so we can move that sort of testing stuff to the first half of the second meeting
<ogra> right, that would be better
<LaserJock> well, the tech discussion should be discussing the tech aspects of the testing, what bugs came up, etc.
<RichEd> ogra: under : Edubuntu Testers
<LaserJock> the second section should have the "call to test"
<LaserJock> which ogra really shouldn't have to do anyway
<ogra> LaserJock, it also needs testing plans etc ... i might miss something that a trivial question from a user points out in a discussuion for example ... i dont want to miss out on that
<LaserJock> well sure
<RichEd> LaserJock: would you see that every person who tests would attend the tech meeting, or do the user level testers have a way of submitting issues
<ogra> so i want the dircet contact to the users during this time
<LaserJock> argg, ok, just a sec
<RichEd> would it make sense to have a person who coordinates testing
<RichEd> ?
<LaserJock> in the second section we should have a "call for testing" which is go to the testing website, etc.
<LaserJock> then users should be also able to report problems
<pips1> RichEd, testers are normally people who are already "half way" in-between users/newbies and developers/contributors
<ogra> RichEd, stgraber and heno do that already
<pips1> RichEd: so I suppose testers will attend both anyway...
<ogra> RichEd, testing plans should be outlined in the specs already
<LaserJock> hmm, I think we should focus on the topics rather than the people here
<ogra> we should see that we have this in gutsy+1
<LaserJock> people should come and go whenever
<LaserJock> the point is to group like topics to make it easier for people and to keep things to a sane time limit
<RichEd> ogra: do the testers fill out a test plan status on the wiki somwhere ... or via email ?
<ogra> https://isotesting.stgraber.org/
<LaserJock> and considering that we usually have <10 people show up to meetings, I don't think we need to put so much effort into this, tbh
<ogra> https://iso.qa.stgraber.org/isotesting/build/Edubuntu is our piece of the pie there
<pips1> testers for edubuntu (besides ogra, of course) have been 1-3 people in the past...
<pips1> no?
<ogra> yep
<RichEd> well would we be able to swell those numbers if the process became easier to understand and more accessible ?
<RichEd> back to the bite size chunks theory
<ogra> i dont think so
<LaserJock> not really
<LaserJock> the process is already pretty darn easy
<pips1> and generally, if somebody decides to do testing for a certain release, they will commit to do their testing seriously, at least during "crunch time"
<ogra> you need the will to test ... there are no process changes that can change that
<ogra> motivating more people to get more and faster test results would be cool though
<ogra> but tat lies in the advertisement realm ... not in the process
<pips1> I think people decided to do some testing for a certain release, because they want to deploy that release or some reason, but then they might not do testing for the next release, but perhaps a later one further down the line...
<ogra> right
<ogra> as LaserJock said, people come and go
<RichEd> okay ... getting late and my battery is running down ... can i suggest that we ask LaserJock to do a wiki page with his agenda views ... and i'll add my 2c and so can anyone else ...
<pips1> I agree with ogra that it would be cool do have more people to do testing towards the end of the cycle... even just having 5-10 people testing one education app each would be great...
<ogra> if he likes to :)
<ogra> pips1, yep, but thats neeeds more noise in the wild
<RichEd> i'm happy to take the mail laser sent and extract that onto a wiki page
<LaserJock> I'll do it, but I expect people to put in their $0.02USD
<RichEd> and we can send each agenda to the mailing list(s) for comment
<LaserJock> RichEd: I'd rather go from what we've discussed and redo. that email was a little ...scattered ;-)
<RichEd> and agree on a loose plan next week ... which we can test for the rest of july
<ogra> LaserJock, i'd only have 0.02 .... but thats worth more :)
<LaserJock> ogra: I'll take it
<ogra> :)
<pips1> I think we already have quite a bit of common ground
<RichEd> i think mailing an invite to the mail lists got a few more people to attend tonight ... so if we keep up the noise and debate ... hopefully we'll attract more spectators
<LaserJock> BLOG
<ogra> ++
<RichEd> and then we convert the spectators into playas
<LaserJock> it's amazing how many people read Planet Ubuntu
<LaserJock> and I can probably do some Fridge action as well
<cliebow_> tell me..ill be there
<ogra> i did that back in breezy and dapper time (mailing announcements) ... somehow it grew over my head
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> we just need a secretary for ogra
<RichEd> right ... pumpkin' time for me ... 12 bells about to strike ...
<ogra> RichEd, EC ?
<ogra> we need three memebers to approve ppl
<RichEd> anyone here who has applied for edubuntu-members ?
<pips1> 1. ca. 30 mins *tight dev status report* plus 15-30 mins "reserve" dev (including testing stuff in testing crunch time) 2. newbie friendly stuff (We should really find a way to tackle the "bite size" idea that LaserJock has been talking about for ages ;-)
<ogra> RichEd, seems not ...
<ogra> sooo ....
<LaserJock> email the people that have email address in LP
<ogra> going once
<ogra> LaserJock, i thought that happened ....
<LaserJock> and reject those that don't with a message that they need to contact us
<ogra> going twice
<RichEd> ogra: we get a lot of applicants for edubuntu-members via LP ... who we have never met in IRC or email
<LaserJock> I didn't know if it did or not, I thought perhaps not?
<RichEd> should we better explain somewhere (in LP) what is needed / expected ?
<ogra> yes, but we need the CC for that
<ogra> EC is owned by CC IIRC :)
<ogra> damned, found no acronym for is owned :P
<pips1> hehe
<pips1> hey highvoltage
<ogra> anyway, lets finish this meeting officially now :)
* RichEd is confused again ... what group does the EC approve ?
<ogra> RichEd, edubuntu members
<ogra> which are a part of ubuntu members
<ogra> the kubuntu council approves kubuntu members
<ogra> which are as well a part of ubuntu members
<RichEd> and to recap ... we said that edubuntu (the group) was reduntant
<RichEd> ?
<ogra> ubuntu members are owned by the CC
<ogra> right
<RichEd> and i'm happy to close on that note ...
<RichEd> goin thrice
<RichEd> BOING
<RichEd> thanks ...
<ogra> \o_
<RichEd> LaserJock: i'll mail you a wiki page for the agenda
<pips1> RichEd: when can I catch you on IRC in the next days?
* ogra cant lift the left arm ... to tired already
<RichEd> pips1: i'll be around tomorrow ... if my head-cold goes away tonight ...
<RichEd> even if i am in away mode, i
<RichEd> 'll check for pings
<pips1> ok, I'll try to catch you tomorrow, then. Sleep well!
<RichEd> night all
<ogra> night
* ogra goes as well
<LaserJock> RichEd: ok, thanks
#edubuntu 2007-08-02
<mgallagh> I have an issue with an edubuntu server and a thin client, the thin client boots to a certain point(starts splash screen) but then falls back to initramfs
<mgallagh> is there an ltsp log  that i can track"
<sbalneav> Evening all
<pips1> RichEd-1: ping
<multik> good day everyone
<multik> greetings ogra.
<smp> hi..
<smp> r u there..
<multik> ?
<smp> i need to know regarding ubuntu's/debian's network installation
<multik> uff, sorry, i'm newbie myself.
<smp> ok..
<pips1> smp: ask your question, if someone knows, they will answer
<smp> well ..
<smp> i did pxe booting..
<smp> and i got success..but it is asking for mirror link from where it will download the files..
<smp> which i dont want..i want to do all the things using my LAN only
<pips1> download what files? do you want to install new applications?
<smp> is thre nbdy who knw installation from the mounted iso image from the server itself..
<smp> pipsl:no..
<smp> pipsl:I wnt to install base system only..
<pips1> smp: do you want to install a thin client & terminal server ? or do you want to install a workstation?
<smp> i have 10 comps..and i wnt to install ubuntu/debian from the server..
<smp> my clients dont have cdroms..
<smp> i setup dhcp server & tftp server..
<pips1> oh, you want to install 10 workstations over the local network
<pips1> ?
<smp> exactly
<smp> my m/c can boot frm the network
<pips1> and you say that you managed to boot a "live" session in one of the networked pcs?
<smp> actually wen i did pxe booting...it was asking for mirror site..that menu came after choosing up the keyboard layout and setting up the locale..
<pips1> hmm. you sould be able to specify your local server as a repository for the debian packages ...
<edistar> is there an easy howto how to set up the edubuntu box to login via ldap?
<smp> so..initial installation files are geting frm the tftp dir..
<smp> pipsl:yah..but i want to install it from mounted cd image
<smp> i dnt have that option to set up local repository in my server
<pips1> smp: sorry I haven't done this myself. I can't help... :-/ however, this question is not specific to edubuntu, so you might find someone in another channel that can help you. have you tried to ask in #ubuntu?
<smp> ok...that channel i tried..but..i am not getting any help..do u know another channel?
<pips1> hmm. did you try any google search for the topic? didn't that bring up any results? (some documentation or some thread in the ubuntuforums.org...)?
<smp> pipsl:i got one doc from ubutu docs but that is not woring..
<smp> and ubutu is using casper but in debian i dnt have that option
<pips1> smp :-(
<smp> nway thanks pipsl.
* pips1 thinks he needs a better nick, that "1" (one) at the end is just annoying...
<pips1> :-)
<pips1> edistar: edubuntu box = thin client? or workstation?
<pips1> edistar: did you see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/LDAPClientAuthentication ?
<juliux> edistar, what do you think about a second edubuntu weekend during the ubucon in krefeld?
<srimalj> hi all
<srimalj> I'm intrested in translating Edubuntu to the Sinhala language (the language used in Sri Lanka). This is a funded project
<srimalj> How can I get started with technical information
<srimalj> is there a list?
<srimalj> ga/
<srimalj> hellooo
<srimalj> anybody home?????
<pips1> srimalj: sorry I was busy ... sounds great! you got a funded translation project. fantastic.
<pips1> srimalj: what do you want to translate...? do you want to translate the desktop/software in edubuntu? do you want to translate the documentation for edubuntu? where do you want to start? :-)
<srimalj> actually we would like to translate some educational suites in edubuntu (fiesty)
<srimalj> that would benefit rural sri lankan children
<srimalj> and we want this work to be included in fiture releases
<pips1> srimalj: there are lots of resources for translators online. there is launchpad, which enables you to contribute translations of the software, see https://translations.launchpad.net/
<srimalj> ifthere is anything that can be upstreamed back to the main Ubuntu project then that should also happen
<srimalj> tnx i already registered an account on launchpad
<srimalj> and a project
<srimalj> Sinhala Edubuntu
<pips1> nice
<srimalj> So when we upload po files to LaunchPad does that get included to the Ubuntu releases too?
<pips1> there are also language specific mailing lists available for translators ("localisation lists")... see https://lists.ubuntu.com/
<srimalj> we want to be able to make a Sinhala Edubuntu live cd also
<pips1> yes, the translations get included
<srimalj> automatically?
<srimalj> i dont think the whole edubuntu project can be translated at once
<srimalj> so we'd like to focus on some crucial educational apps initially
<srimalj> and proceed
<pips1> I don't know how automated it is and what the exact process is... you can find out from people with ubuntu translation experience though :-)
<srimalj> cool tnx
<pips1> try searching the mailing list archives of the translators: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-translators
<srimalj> currently no sinhala list
<srimalj> so i guess this is a first
<pips1> and if you don't find useful information there, join the list and ask :-)
<pips1> no sinhala list... well, start one if there are going to be several of you :-)
<pips1> srimalj: did you see our introductory page at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/Translation ?
<pips1> srimalj: hope this helped... I need to go eat now, cu later
<srimalj> tnx a lot
<srimalj> that was very help full
<srimalj> u may see me more often on this room :)
<jinty> hi ogra, any word on the schooltool packages?
* jinty is going on holiday in about an hour
<edistar> is gutsy useable yet?
<ogra> edistar, usable for playing with it and testing yes, for production use, no
<multik> hi ogra
<multik> you're alive ;)
<ogra> extremly busy... but yes, alive
<multik> ok, lets talk in the evening then, shall we. I'm dying here as well.
<multik> Feckin' integration :)
<gert> Hi, need some help to set up sound on thin Client. Thin Client is running on edubuntu 7.04 server, which has no sound card. I want to connect to a windows server and get the sound in my thin client. This seems impssible because there is no sound daemon running on edubuntu. Any idea's??
<ogra> the sound daemon runs on te client if there is sound HW we have a driver for
<gert> ok, so I have to install the thin clients sound card drivers in the server's /opt/ltsp directory?
<ogra> no
<ogra> they are there already
<ogra> but i doubt you can have windows produce anything usable thats playable on the client
<gert> well if I rdesktop from my suse desktop there's no problem
<ogra> then it should work as well if you run rdesktop as login manager on the thin client
<gert> no it doesn't. There's always an error message saying there's no sound card or the sound card is already in use
<ogra> what kind of soudncard is that ?
<ogra> and do you have sound in normal LTSP mode if ou use it as a client ?
<gert> sis9017
<ogra> ouch
<ogra> (you mean 7019 i guess :) )
<gert> yes 'm sorry
<ogra> there is no working driver for recent 2.6 kernels for this thing
<ogra> (its one of the worst HW's i know btw ... ) what kind of client is that ? ebox 2300 ?
<gert> I don't know exactly, the manual only says 'TU'
<ogra> http://www.compactpc.com.tw/ebox-2300.htm
<gert> so the only way I can get around this is to use a 2.4 kernel
<ogra> which wont work in ltsp5 ... or latest 4.2
<gert> 4.1?
<ogra> bith use udev etc ... there is no way to make either work with a 2.4 kernel
<ogra> no idea if 4.1 did support 2.4 kernels ...
<ogra> i dont touch that old code
<ogra> (nobody does actually)
<gert> ok thanks a lot, at least now I know I don't have to waste any more time
<ogra> i'm wroking on to port the sis7019 driver to gutsy, but its still not clear we can ship it, the only code i have isnt licensed and has no copyright info at all
<gert> ok thanks man!
<ogra> if you have a thing like the one i pasted the link for there are at least chances it will half way work in gutsy
<gert> but not in feisty
<ogra> nope
<gert> I just took a look, that's the thing I have
<ogra> that thing is carppy hardware,the one example i have here to work with needs to do everything in CPU so sound gets choppy if you move the mouse etc
<ogra> its a shame they sell it for so much
<ogra> thats not even worth $50 and you can get way better things for 20 bucks more
<gert> You have any better suggestions for thin clients?
<ogra> anything from disklessworkstations.com thats not teh e2300 is good (but a bit more expensive) and there are varoiuus companies seeling stuff from $120 to 150 thats rather in the 500Mhz area and has proper pci chips
<ogra> even geode systms will serve you beter than this thing
<multik> even linuterm :)
<ogra> since we (ltsp upstream) work very closely with disklessworkstations.com i got such a thing from them to make sure it works at least half way in gutsy ...
<ogra> but from 200Mhz for *everything* you cant expect miracles
<gert> no of course not but it has to be cheap because we want to implement them in schools
<ogra> right
<gert> anyway, thanks a lot for your time guys!!
<edistar_> how do I set up edubuntu to use an external dhcp server and only use one NIC?
<edistar> anyone have a link to a howto or so?
<t94xr> disable the other NIC in networking
<t94xr> and assign it to DHCP
<t94xr> simple?
<ogra> t94xr, not that simple ... you need to set up the new dhcp server for netbooting as well
<edistar> ogra: where do I find what I need to set in my external dhcp server?
<edistar> the tftp and so on will still be on the edubuntu server
<ogra> what ind of dhcp server is that ?
<edistar> ogra: it's an ipcop ;)
<edistar> I just need to know what exactly the options for the dhcp are
<ogra> edistar, no idea then ... it needs to know about filename and root-path at least
<ogra> likely also abut next-server
<ogra> pull the paths for that out of the /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf file
<edistar> ogra: thanks
<boxrock> can anyone tell me where to find docs for RAID installation on fiesty?
<LaserJock> I'm not sure there really are any
<LaserJock> but you could ask #ubuntu-server
<IceLink> hey there
<Shadow31> I need to increase the number of maximum sessions on my LTSP server. How can I do this?
<IceLink> can somebody name me some edubuntu-apps?
<LaserJock> IceLink: gcompris, KDE edu, tuxpaint, tuxmath, LTSP
<LaserJock> Shadow31: do you mean hardware wise or in the actual LTSP server?
<IceLink> what's gcompris?
<LaserJock> it's a great suite of games and educational programs for kids
<IceLink> ah this is what i wanted, thanks
<IceLink> lol
<IceLink> you didn't say that it's 2++
<sprik> ciao a tutti
<sprik> hello to all
#edubuntu 2007-08-03
<nrayever> hi to everyone
<nrayever> i'm having some problems with edubuntu
<nrayever> dhcp server is not working and always says "fail"
<nrayever> can anyone help me?
<nrayever> somebody??
<Burgundavia> nrayever: your dhcp server is not starting?
<nrayever> that's right burgundavia
<nrayever> it doesn't start
<nrayever> the server has a fresh edubuntu server install
<Burgundavia> you need to make certain you have one of your NICs set to a static address and the dhcp lease information needs to be on the same subnet
<nrayever> i just modified the /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf
<nrayever> mmmmm, ok maybe that's the problem
<nrayever> i haven't set a static ip for the nic
<bddebian> Heya
<nrayever> i have set a static ip (10.0.0.1) and the same subnet (255.255.255.0)
<nrayever> what else i need to do?
<Burgundavia> nrayever: you need to set the lease range on the dhcp server
<Burgundavia> hey bddebian, jsgotangco
<bddebian> Hi Burgundavia
<nrayever> thanks burgundavia!!
<nrayever> it worked!
<nrayever> i just need to restart, but the hole server! xD
<Burgundavia> hmm
<nrayever> now i just need to copy what i have in the floppy to a small cf card that i'm using as a boot hd
<nrayever> i read somewhere on the web that i can do it, i just need a live cd and make a cat to the hd
<nrayever> so burgundavia what do you think?? can it be possible??
<Burgundavia> your thin clients cannot network boot?
<nrayever> the problem is that i had disable the mobo's nic and installed a pci 1 gb nic
<nrayever> chipset realteck 8169
<nrayever> is there any way that the bios could boot that nic??
<nrayever> i did that because mobo's onboard nic was just 10/100 mb
<nrayever> so i prefered to buy some 1gb nic's for this specific use
<nrayever> the network would be less loaded than using 10/100 nic
<nrayever> don't you think?
<nahka> so having trouble with the adsl modem, in windows its connected by usb, but edubuntu doesn't support that
<nahka> I tried connecting with ethernet but it didn't work either\
<Burgundavia> nahka: I feel your pain
<Burgundavia> there is no easy solution
<Burgundavia> what is the brand name?
<nrayever> thanks guys
<nrayever> bye bye!
<nahka> netopia
<sbalneav> Evening all
<LaserJock> hi sbalneav
<sbalneav> Hey LaserJock
<sbalneav> How's it going?
<LaserJock> oh, it's going
<sbalneav> Sorry, I missed the meeting yesterday.  Anything interesting happen?
<LaserJock> hmm
<LaserJock> sorta
<LaserJock> ogra gave us his usual update, rockin as always
<LaserJock> my Addon CD enhancements are almost done
<LaserJock> and a new person wants to help with artwork
<LaserJock> and then we wandered back over here and discussed RichEd's proposal to split up the meetings a bit
<sbalneav> Well, that's good news.
<LaserJock> to make them more user-friendly
<sbalneav> The artwork
<sbalneav> Well, I just dusted off some old shell code of mine, and hopefully answered everyone's questions about assigning printers by mac.
<LaserJock> sbalneav: sweet
* Starting logfile irclogs/edubuntu.log
<stgraber> ogra: I sent a mail to Pete yesterday about the work I'm currently doing on TCM (well on a fork locally but the goal is to merge my work with TCM), you can have a look here if you want : http://www.stgraber.org/tcm1.png
<stgraber> argh, http://www.stgraber.org/download/tcm1.png
<ogra> sweet
<ogra> are you really running this many clients ?
<ogra> or is that a mockup
<stgraber> nope, I've done a simulation function giving a similar array as the one provided by the tcm functions
<ogra> ah
<stgraber> it's using screenshots instead of resized VNC to avoid the crash, memory problem, ... we currently have with TCM
<stgraber> but I'll need to find a way to generate the screenshots on the thin clients themselves and then push them to the server (so we don't use server CPU to take them)
<stgraber> VNC is only used when you want to take the control (double-click on the client) or switch to demo mode
<stgraber> also an advantage of the iconview is that you can select multiple clients at once and then launch a software or send a message on that selection of client
<ogra> tried xwd ?
<stgraber> nope, currently using "scrot" but having 10 computers doing screenshots every 5s is taking a lot of CPU on the server (only 1.5Ghz ...)
<ogra> why is that ?
<ogra> the load should be on the client
<stgraber> yes, it should but I don't have a way to retrieve the screenshots from the client yet
<stgraber> (nfs seems overkill for that ...)
<ogra> you could add a TCM user :) and scp
<stgraber> hmm, I'm not sure having 7 ssh connections every 5s is that better than scrot running every 5s :)
<ogra> well, why do you need 5 second updates anywa
<ogra> y
<ogra> 20second wuld suffice /me thinks
<ogra> and you need a way to suppress clients .....
<ogra> thats mainly why vnc isnt on by default in TCM atm
<ogra> what happens in a netwrok with 200 thin clients (i.e. with  cluster as wever)
<ogra> *server
<stgraber> what do you mean by "suppress clients" ?
<ogra> well, if oyu have 200 clients you surely dont want to pull them all
<ogra> you need grouping for them or something like that ....
<ogra> so the porggy only polls n of them at once
<ogra> else you will make your network die
<stgraber> my goal is to have 128x128 screenshot generated on thin clients, then pushed to a dir on the server
<ogra> well
<stgraber> and then the GUI simply shows them (if you filter you'll only see the one corresponding to the filter)
<ogra> try it :)
<stgraber> the only load problem would be the upload of the screenshots from the clients to the server (but shouldn't be that BW expensive with a 128x128 png file)
<stgraber> then I can refresh 32 icons every 2s with only a cpu load of 1% (ok I'm using a core2duo)
<ogra> right that could work
<stgraber> something that'd also be a good idea to implement for Gutsy+1 is to have some kind of daemon running on the thin clients themselves so we can remotely run commands on them (shutdown, start a VNCviewer on another X server, ...)
<ogra> ldm2 should solve that
<ogra> we can just poll stuff on the server
<ogra> i.e. a socket
<ogra> its a tiny script we need for the client side ...
<ogra> and only some hacks to hal to make i.e. shutdown from the logout dialog availabe
<stgraber> would be great
<stgraber> ldm2 is really a big improvment
<ogra> ldm2 brings a ton of opportunities
<ogra> having the static tunnel opens up a great communication layer
<juliux> stgraber, how is your experinces with the core2duo as a ltsp server?
<stgraber> juliux: the core2duo is my personal laptop I use for coding, I don't have the ltsp server on it
<juliux> stgraber, ah ok
<juliux> because my core2duo ltsp server was very slow
<juliux> the pentium D was much better
<ogra> stgraber, sudo apt-get install netpbm
<ogra> xwd -root -silent |xwdtopnm|pnmscale -width 100 -height 75|pnmtopng >/tmp/out.png
<ogra> produces a 7k big screenshot
<stgraber> great
<mindjuju> anybody here know how to get past "BIOS age (1999) cutoff (2000)," error?  I've tried half a dozen strings when trying to install edubuntu, but can't seem to get anywhere.  the strings that I googled and found were acpi=force | noapic acpi=off.  the second one doesn't throw an error, and it flashes an edubuntu splash for a minute then goes to blinking cursor for at least 10 minutes.  I have updated my BIOS to the latest that lenovo
<mindjuju> anybody have an idea?
<ogra> stgraber, http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/32355/
<ogra> wil only work on ldm2 in gutsy thogh ... and could need the IP for the image name
<stgraber> ogra: oh, great thank you. Putting that somewhere and will test once back home
<ogra> stgraber, if you generate two of them (one double sized) you can easily have a "zoom on mouse over" effect
<stgraber> ogra: oh, that's an idea yes
<ogra> heh, putting that in an empty dir makes nautilus already a nice preview tool :)
* ogra is just playing
<stgraber> :)
<pips1> ogra, the ubuntu-meeting logs seem to have stopped working since 2007-07-26. do you know anything about it?
<pips1> I wanted to read up on the last edubunt meeting...
<pips1> e.g. http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/ubuntu-meeting-2007-08-01.html - just a blank page
<mindjuju> i'm trying to install edubuntu 7.04 desktop and it stops doing anything after squashfs: version 3.2  any ideas on what i could do?
<cliebow> mindjuju, ogra is around somewhere..ill take a wild stupid gues and ask if inetd is running anything for nbd..nbd root?
<mindjuju> i'm not sure.  This is first time running ebubuntu.  the laptop previously had windows 2000 and has built in dvd rom
<mindjuju> ogra , you around?
<boxrock> can someone tell me how i play a wav file from shell? i get "oss_audio: failed to open audio device /dev/dsp" from flite
<LaserJock> is anybody around who was at the last Edubuntu meeting?
#edubuntu 2007-08-04
<sbalneav> Evening all
<buntu> is it possible to change the ubuntu icon to the gnome foot?
<sbalneav> Where?
<sbalneav> You mean on the applications menu?
<sbalneav> buntu: You mean on the applications menu?
<sbalneav> Morning all
<juliux> hi sbalneav
<encompass> sbalneav: Good Morning
<sbalneav> ogra: ping
<ogra> sbalneav, no my way out (susie is waiting)
<ogra> whats up ?
<sbalneav> ltsp-build-client breaks.
<sbalneav> Get:214 http://archive.ubuntu.com gutsy/main ltsp-client 5.0.22 [31.2kB] 
<sbalneav> Fetched 37.1MB in 2m23s (259kB/s)
<sbalneav> Extracting templates from packages: 100%
<sbalneav> Preconfiguring packages ...
<sbalneav> FATAL: Could not load /lib/modules/2.6.22-9-generic/modules.dep: No such file or directory
<sbalneav> openpty failed
<ogra> not here
<sbalneav> Just tried it 5 minutes ago.
<ogra> i did try it yesterday, looks like the kernel package might be broken
<sbalneav> hm
<sbalneav> ok
<sbalneav> Out you go with Susie.
<sbalneav> Give her my love.
<ogra> according to gutsy-changes there was a linux-source upload
<ogra> might be that something failed to build or so
<sbalneav> ok
<sbalneav> so it'll correct itself.
<ogra> linux-source-2.6.22 (2.6.22-9.25)
<ogra> that happens in the second download process, right ?
<ogra> erm
<ogra> thats 100'% wrong
<ogra> we dont use -generic at all
<ogra> how does that get in there ?
* ogra goes shooping, will look later
<sbalneav> k
<sbalneav> afk, breakfast
<_Roman> I have just installed ltsp on my feisty machine.  It works fine, I was able to connect a client to in instantly with no problems on the client side.  However when I come to login to the server directly, it take ages to login and complains that it can not connect to gnome-settings-daemon.  Once logged in, everything runs really slowly.  Can anyone help?
<sbalneav> ogra: Back from shopping?
<stgraber> hi cbx33
<sbalneav> Wahhh.
<sbalneav> My chroot won't build.
<sbalneav> And like a schmuck, I erased my old one.
<sbalneav> Poop.
<sbalneav> I'm stalled on ldm2 until I get this fixed.
<stgraber> argh, so no more working chroot ?
<sbalneav> no :)
<sbalneav> err
<sbalneav> :(
<sbalneav> So used to typing the othe one.
<stgraber> get a previous version of ltsp from the archives and build one again, isn't an option ?
<sbalneav> Yeah. it is.  Just slows me down :)
<sbalneav> Actually, maybe not.  Looks like it's a kernel upgrade that broke it.
<encompass> Hi guys, I am making pystart for GSoC and have an interesting GTK/Glade question: what is "File System Backend:" option in a fileChooserButton in Glade?
<encompass> cbx33: howdy boss
<stgraber> encompass: No real idea, maybe it's to choose which VFS you want to use gnome-vfs or the other one (gvfs ?)
<encompass> stgraber: cool, if you don't know, I doubt I need to know yet :D
<mikekrosoft> hello there...
<mikekrosoft> quick question...
<vistakiller> eh?
<sbalneav> ogra: Back yet?
<LaserJock> ogra: wahoo, new dailies \o/
<sbalneav> ogra: ping
<LaserJock> hi sbalneav
<sbalneav> hey laserjock.
<sbalneav> How's it going?
<LaserJock> good!
<LaserJock> I got my Addon CD enhancements on the new daily
<sbalneav> ltsp-build-client breaks horribly, so I'm not good :(
<sbalneav> Oh, cool
<LaserJock> oops
<LaserJock> that's no good
<sbalneav> And ogra's probably sleeping by now.  Woe is me.
#edubuntu 2007-08-05
<sbalneav> Afternoon all
<LaserJock> afternoon
<sbalneav> Heh.  To heck with it.  I just realized: I can work on LDM from the text console.  So, I've shut down X, and just ldm into a different box on my network :)
<LaserJock> I think maybe I made a big mistake putting rasmol onto the addon CD :/
<sbalneav> Problems?
<LaserJock> well, it seems that nobody knows how to use it
<LaserJock> it was the first chemistry related app I ever used
<LaserJock> kind of a classic, I thought everybody that wanted it would be familiar with it
<sbalneav> So people are installing it but going "eh?  What's this?"
<LaserJock> yeh
<LaserJock> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=517127
<sbalneav> "Linux is great so is Other OS"
<sbalneav> Doesn't rasmol have a man page?
<LaserJock> yes
<LaserJock> but the problem with rasmol as any user interaction is done via console
<LaserJock> so you can go File -> Open but you have to put in the file name in the terminal
<sbalneav> ah,
<sbalneav> older app
<LaserJock> yes, it's quite ancient
<bddebian> Heya
<LaserJock> hi bddebian
<bddebian> Heya LaserJock
<sbalneav> ssh 192.168.0.1
<sbalneav> argh
<LaserJock|NV> hmm, that doesn't take me anywhere ;-)
<bddebian> heh
<sbalneav> Wow.  Slowly beginning to switch ldm over to glib.  Code got shorter, and faster.  Cool
<LaserJock> over to glib from what?
<sbalneav> bare bones programming on the metal.  Switching all the fork/exec spawing to the g_spawn calls.
<sbalneav> ldm needs to be i18n as well.
<sbalneav> so I gotta get the gettext support in there as well.
<LaserJock> and glib made it faster huh?
<sbalneav> Seems to have.
<sbalneav> one fork/exec I can't get rid of.
<sbalneav> when talking to ssh, I have to actually allocate a pty for speaking to it.  glib-2.0 doesn't have any spawning utils that launch a login pty for the forked process.
<sbalneav> ps -ef
<sbalneav> lol
<sbalneav> One of these days I'm gonna type my password in here :)
<LaserJock> you haven't yet?
<sbalneav> Not yeeeeeeet. :)
<sbalneav> Morning all
<sbalneav> ogra: So, I started to transition to glib yesterday
<cliebow> sbalneav, so lower level then?
<moquist> ogra: ping?
<moquist> sbalneav: mornin', sunshine
<LaserJock> \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/
<LaserJock> _o_  _o_  _o_  _o_  _o_
<LaserJock> \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/
* LaserJock does a dance around the room
<poningru> 0.0
* poningru wonders what that is about
<cliebow> LaserJock:!!!!!!!!!!!
<LaserJock> My changes for the Addon CD finally made it
<LaserJock> the latest daily
#edubuntu 2008-07-28
<juliux> ogra: just in case you get mails that my membership in edubuntu-members expires the next daies, for me it is ok
#edubuntu 2008-07-30
<kyle___> i got a problem, any one available to help?
<markotux> salut
<markotux> je cherche des personnes de la communautÃ© edubuntu
<crazy_bus> is there anyway to still get a edubuntu livecd, or would I have to get a older version of a different livecd.  (This is to show some foss edu apps to someone, specifically gcompris)
<ogra> there is none for hardy, you need to either take the gutsy one, or take the ubuntu hardy one and install gcompris in the running session
<ogra> (which requires internet access during your presentation indeed)
<crazy_bus> thanks ogra
<EchoBinary> hello :) anyone around?
<EchoBinary> wondering about sedding up the gdm such that a user can enter a username and no password
<EchoBinary> setting*
<EchoBinary> i understand the security risks - assume that these computers are in a closed environment not connected to the internet
#edubuntu 2008-07-31
<klaude85> hi im from chile
<sbalneav> Hello!
<klaude85> i can translate to spanish
#edubuntu 2008-08-01
<generalsnus> The past week i have tried to come up with a solution for authenticating linux clients to W2k3 AD, and also mount the users /home folders when they login, with no extra authentication. seems that the mounting of /home..is the biggest problem here. so if this aint possible. is there a "easy" howto..to do the same thing with a openLDAP server as authentication?
<jimjimovich> can someone point me to the edubuntu 8.04 server install docs?  can't seem to find them from the site
<willvdl> Hola compadres. I'm gracing these hallowed halls once again
<wima> i noticed that in 8.10, icons for local devices end up on _every_ desktop... So if somebody plugs in a USB stick, an icon will appear on all the desktops. Does anyone has an idea of what could be the problem here?
#edubuntu 2008-08-02
<lovok> I have a computer at home with Edubuntu installed and a laptop with XP installed. I want to simulate an LTSP set up ; how would I go about on starting this?
<lovok> I followed these instructions : https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/LTSPQuickInstall#Installing%20on%20top%20of%20an%20already%20running%20desktop%20system
<lovok> and got the server set up, but how do I connect the laptop?
<megalosaurus> got an issue with ubuntu 8.04 base install
<megalosaurus> i can install kubuntu with no problems on the machine
<megalosaurus> after the live cd loads, i select install ubuntu and it hangs
<megalosaurus> how much more info do yall need to be able to diagnois my issue?
#edubuntu 2009-07-27
<mhall119> from what I've gathered, certain apps don't run well with multiple instances on the server
<dgroos1> mhall119: nice that you popped in!  And, saw the chats the other day and saw that you and your wife are hanging around edubuntu more--welcome :)
<mhall119> thanks
<gavinmc> if your thin clients have very little ram or cpu, local apps will be very limited.
<gavinmc> anyway, could you reload the wiki nat page? I've changed the test a little
<dgroos1> my minimum setup is a PIII, 933 MHz w/at least 384 megs ram...
<gavinmc> yeah, they should be able to run all local apps I would have thought.
<mhall119> I have a bunch of Dell GX1 and GX100 boxes without hard drives that I want to use for thin clients
 * Ahmuck has 800mhz, 512mb ram
<mhall119> needless to say, local apps won't run well on early model P2 CPUs
<gavinmc> anyway, did you update the dhcp server config as in step 2?
<Ahmuck> mhall119 really ?
<mhall119> really what?
<gavinmc> dgroos1: step 2?
<dgroos1> gavinmc: yes.  I'm booting an ubuntu machine on the same part of the network as I've got the thin clients.
<Ahmuck> mhall119>	needless to say, local apps won't run well on early model P2 CPUs
<mhall119> Ahmuck: I guess it depends on the app, but 200MHz isn't going to be real responsive
<gavinmc> dgroos1: fabulous.
<dgroos1> hmmm... strange, it won't even get half way through the boot process--just kind of hangs with a blank screen...  I'll try and boot with the regular network connection...
<Ahmuck> mhall119 sorry, i was thinking larger than 200mhhz
<gavinmc> dgroos1: that is a bit wierd.
<gavinmc> is it possible your regular PC tried to PXE boot?
<gavinmc> dgroos1: you might need to alter the BIOS so it boots the hard disk first
<gavinmc> dgroos1: or disable pxe booting
<dgroos1> gavinmc: OK it booted well, I did the test, and it gave the same 192.168.0.254 ip.
<dgroos1> Also, I tried firefox and it didn't work.
<dgroos1> Now on to step 3!
<gavinmc> dgroot1: okay
<dgroos1> OK I checked the file /etc/sysctl.conf (might be nice for newer newbies than I to tell them to type 'sudo gedit /etc/ssyctl.conf')
<gavinmc> dgroos1: yeah, you may be right on that
<dgroos1> and it says what it needs to say.  I don't get the line, "then to make the settings immediately"?
<dgroos1> does it mean to add the said line into the said file?
<gavinmc> dgroos1: reload the page. is it clearer now?
<dgroos1> :) affirmative.
<dgroos1> Step 4--you introduce the word 'masquerading' with out defining it--might want to add a link or quick definition.
<dgroos1> Also, I'm not sure what I'm supposed to compare the provided 192.168.0.0/24 with, to see if I need to change something in the provided command to make it fit my network.
<gavinmc> dgroos1:  192.168.0.0/24 is correct for you, but I need to think how to explain it
<gavinmc> dgroos1: masquerading is somewhat explained in the conceptual steps, but it's a pretty terse explanation
<dgroos1> OK.  I'm at working on the /etc/network/interfaces (might want to add the sudo gedit directions there, too) and I feel a bit uncomfortable with the 'looks something like' descriptor.  Since I don't really have the big picture-I'm doing this recipy-style, I'm not sure of what needs to be exactly like what you have and what can be different.
<dgroos1> ...except you do state that I use the ethx of the LTSP interface so I know that can vary.
<dgroos1> The only differences I've got from what you've got on the page are that I use eth0, not eth1, and I've got the 'network' line above the 'broadcast' line.  So, I think what I've got is OK.
<dgroos1> I'll try the test, now.
<gavinmc> I'll work on that in a second, just adding something on masquerade....
<dgroos1> OK--I just did test for step 4 (ping 192.168.3.1) and it did ping!
<gavinmc> sounds good
<dgroos1> Might want to change directions from: Edit the dhcp settings on the ltsp server, as above, to: Edit the dhcp settings on the ltsp server, as per the directions in step 2 (and provide the code: sudo gedit  /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf)  Don't underestimate the apparent complexity of 'simple' directions when one has limited knowledge :)
<gavinmc> actually, if you reload, that's already done.
<dgroos1> Step 5 says: setting the dns option to the ip address of the main network dhcp server' How do I find out what the ip address of the main dhcp server, is?
<dgroos1> :)
<gavinmc> reload!!!!
<gavinmc> and reload again. I've added how to determine the dns
<dgroos1> I get: domain gateway.2wire.net
<dgroos1> search gateway.2wire.net
<dgroos1> nameserver 192.168.3.1
<dgroos1> so is the 'nameserver' the same as the DNS server?  I'm guessing it is :) and here is the mistake in what the volunteer did yesterday-- he had put in 10.0.0.1 !  Let me see...
<gavinmc> that's correct. I'm adding that in if you reload the page again
<dgroos1> SUCCESS!
<dgroos1> I was able to ping w/the other ubuntu...
<dgroos1> and I just booted a thin client w/firefox as localapp and it is working, also :)
<gavinmc> dgroos1: try the web??
<gavinmc> excellent.
<dgroos1> Thanks so much gavinmc and after dinner (my wife has been waiting so patiently) I'll visit the page and review what you did, the questions and comments I made in the IRC, mix in some reflections and maybe edit a thing or two on the page as well.  Please check tomorrow (or I guess later today:) ) and see if I made no mistakes or if what I added--if anything--can be improved.
<sbalneav> Hey gavinmc
<sbalneav> Hello dgroos1
<dgroos1> Again, I sure appreciate you focus on making the documentation--or wiki if that's not the same--great!
<gavinmc> hi scott!
<dgroos1> howdy sbalneav
<dgroos1> back from Brazil?
<dgroos1> Anyway, talk to you later and if you get a chance, add your 2 cents into the google doc--just let me know if you're interested and I'll add you as co-editors and of course this goes to everyone.
<sbalneav> Yep, back
<gavinmc> okay, I've updated that NAT wiki page a bit.  It's hopefully a little more newbiew friendly.
<gavinmc> if anyone has a moment to look it over, it's at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/ThinClientHowtoNAT
<gavinmc> I'm off to bed now. it's 3am here in sweden :-)
<gavinmc> sbalneav: do you have a lot of edubuntu/ltsp bugs on your plate just now?
<dgroos> I'll go over the instructions...
<dgroos> in the 'Requirements' section there is a list of 'you will need' and then it lists several bulleted items.  I would have started to stress upon reading those requirements because I wouldn't be confident I'd be able to get all that info.
<dgroos> At the end of the section, however, you say: If you don't know the information above, you can find it out.  Skip down to the section below on "information gathering".
<dgroos> I would recommend to put some version of that last sentence ABOVE the list of requirements to reassure the reader.
<Howie69> anyone else have Gcomrpis fail miserably after installing Edubuntu?
<Howie69> it fails to start, I've done all of the updates, still fails to start
<Howie69> complains about Python collecting garbage
<dgroos> I think I know what you mean by, "the conceptual steps are:" -- you want to provide readers with a brief description of the goal of each stage ie what the role of the stage is in the overall process.
<Howie69> Exception ImportError: 'No module named Numeric' in 'garbage collection' ignored
<Howie69> Fatal Python error: unexpected exception during garbage collection
<Howie69> Aborted
<dgroos> I'd suggest simply putting, "overview of the steps".
<dgroos> Likewise, call the next section, "Detailed instructions" to dovetail with the previous suggested change.
<Howie69> The GCompris in the Jaunty repositories doesn't work. It's an old version with an unsatisfied dependency. Installing python-numeric will fix it.
<Howie69> really?
<Howie69> It's been broken in the repository for 7 months now?
<Howie69> seems like someone would have fixed the simple dependency
<dgroos> In step 1, it says to boot a PC (I'd suggest say 'boot a computer' because the 'PC' part threw me when I was following these instructions earlier, believe it or not :) )
<dgroos> Step 2-- might be nice to provide a link to the 'basic ltsp server setup first' page because that could be part of the issue--Although I know big efforts are currently happening to clean up the wiki that kind of extra support is useful to newcomers to the edubuntu/ltsp community.
<danzyg> hello
<highvoltage> ace_suares: thanks for your enthusiasm, and sorry for implying that you're "crazy"
<highvoltage> ace_suares: for the record I don't think you are
<jsgotangco> lol
<nubae> :-)
<nubae> greets highvoltage
<nubae> hey... u packaged some ltsp cluster stuff, do u have experience installing it?
<nubae> I'm getting an error on startup of my thin client where the thin client gets stuck looking for the app server I guess (gets stuck at getltscfg-cluster)
<highvoltage> nubae: greetings
<highvoltage> nubae: installed, but not tested yet. I'll probably get to do some testing over the next 10 days or so. You're quite cutting edge, the whole of ltsp-cluster has only been in karmic since last week! (I think one package is still in the upload queue)
<highvoltage> nubae: I think it's best to file a bug on that so long and to subscribe myself and stgraber
<highvoltage> nubae: when I do testing I can watch out for it and bug stgraber if I can't figure out what's going wrong
<nubae> yeah, I sent him an email, but didn't get a response
<nubae> he must be pretty busy I guess
* You're now known as ubuntulog
<ace_suares> highvoltage: hmmm maybe i *am * crazy :-) must be to put time in the wiki :-)
<highvoltage> ace_suares: heh
<ace_suares> highvoltage: on the photos page https://wiki.edubuntu.org/Edubuntu/Community/Photos there was a link to your blog but you changed the url, i fixed it so now it works again. Could you check for me the last three links (named 1 2 3) and see if they work for you? If not, would you remove them from the page OR notigy me and I will remove them ? thx
<Ahmuck> in reguards to breakage, the ford model t has evlovled to something entirely different than it was.  however one wouldn't want to make 8 hour trips in that old model t.  breakage will happen and shouldn't be viewed as a bad thing.  when it breaks, there is a chance to fix it, and/or if it breaks links from another site, and they are doing their link checks, it'll get fixed.  i've noticed...
<Ahmuck> ...that pages with bad links are not normally maintained anyway
<ace_suares> Ahmuck: on the photos page https://wiki.edubuntu.org/Edubuntu/Community/Photos Could you check for me the last three links (named 1 2 3) and see if they work for you? If not, would you remove them from the page OR notify me and I will remove them ? thx
<Ahmuck> heh, ur a take charge kind of person
<ace_suares> hehe
<Ahmuck> yes, i'll check.  i can see ur trying to rope me into this thing
 * ace_suares pulls out whip
<ace_suares> Ahmuck: what are u working on ?
<Ahmuck> links point to monkeysnest.com
<Ahmuck> i'll remove them
<Ahmuck> monkeysnest.com is a dead link
<Ahmuck> dead site
<ace_suares> good thx !!!
<ace_suares> I just wanted a second opinion maybe it was my dns or something.
<Ahmuck> what am i working on?
<Ahmuck> ace_suares: when did you test the links?
<Ahmuck> ace_suares: one issue with dead links, is prolly want to wait a couple of weeks b4 erasing them.  i've had problems with my host, and my site's been down myself from time to time
<Ahmuck> bbl
<dgroos> Hello All
<Ahmuck> ace_suares: is there a wiki team?
<dgroos> Hi Ahmuck--any luck with NAT--tried it yet?
<Ahmuck> dgroos: not yet, not been to the computer lab this morning yet
<Ahmuck> it's summer :)
<Ahmuck> but sometime this morning i hope
<dgroos> I must keep telling myself that... ;)
<dgroos> The directions are seeming to be the cats meow, let me know how they work for you.  Not that I could probably help debug :)
<Ahmuck> yes yes, i will
<Ahmuck> i've many things to do today but i'll try to get to it i hope
<ace_suares> Ahmuck: not yet i think. Want to create one ?
<dgroos> Anyone familiar with X server? I'm trying to install a program in /opt/ltsp/i386 using chroot.  Problem is, this program requires a graphical installer.  I've configured things so that the install works as a regular user, sudo user, but not as root.
<ace_suares> dgroos: i think what you mean is that if you install the program as root, it can't open a display to start the graphical installer ?
<dgroos> ace_suares: exactly.
<dgroos> ...and thus can't install the program.
<ace_suares> I am not very versed in X but I know that you need to tell your xserver that it needs to accept connections from root.
<mhall119|work> dgroos: are you working on a local X server, or a remote one?
<ace_suares> Another option would be to start a second X server on another display and let the root session connect with that one
<ace_suares> but that's probably a bit too generic for you
<dgroos> I'm sitting at a thin client running Terminal...
<mhall119|work> dgroos: the root user's environment probably isn't configured to use your X display
<dgroos> ace_suares: yes indeed generic/general--I don't know how to allow it.
<mhall119|work> dgroos: did you connect as the user, then su to root?  or connect as root?
<dgroos> Is there any way to not be logged in as root when chrooting into the i386?
<ace_suares> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=307984
<dgroos> mhall119|work: I tried sudo and it worked, also as plain user and also worked.  sudo su didn't.
<ace_suares> dgroos: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=307984
<mhall119|work> dgroos: I think sudo still users the logged-in user's environment
<mhall119|work> where as sudo su will put you into root's environment
<mhall119|work> dgroos: have you tried "sudo -s" instead of "sudo su"?
<dgroos> a cornucopia of solutions!  thanks ace_suares and mhall119|work! I'll try them all and get back to you...
<dgroos> OK... The suggestion on http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=307984 didn't work for me:
<dgroos> dgroos@gcos2:~/Desktop$ DISPLAY=:0.0 xhost +
<dgroos> No protocol specified
<dgroos> xhost:  unable to open display ":0.0"
<dgroos> I googled with the "root cannot connect to the x server ubuntu" and another suggestion/idea I got was to use 'xhost +' while as root in the chroot didn't work:
<dgroos> root@gcos2:/# xhost +
<dgroos> xhost:  unable to open display "localhost:11.0"
<mhall119|work> dgroos: if you're connecting remotely, DISPLAY should be yourremotehost:0.0
<mhall119|work> or whatever display number you use
<dgroos> And I realized that I can't use sudo -s as I'm automatically root when I chroot.
<mhall119|work> dgroos: you might trying binding /home/user to $chrootdir/root
<dgroos> mhall119|work I'm on a thin client--not sure if that is considered remote?
<dgroos> binding... would that mean making one folder think it is another?
<ogra> ace_suares, just saw your mail about photos fly by, there is a series of 1h video tutorials about edubuntu somewhere on youtube (10-15 videos)
<ace_suares> cool i ll search
<ace_suares> ps auxwww|grep zim
<ace_suares> he
<mhall119|work> dgroos: I believe it is a remote server, yes
<ace_suares> ogra http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IdvJIGQCVi0
<ogra> ace_suares, right, thats the stuff i meant
<ace_suares> great stuff
<ace_suares> I think it should be posted on help,ubuntu.,com instaed of the wiki
<dgroos> This solution I found on the web partly works: I sudo su, and as root I entered: cp /home/dgroos/.Xauthority ~/ and then I was able to launch X server as root.  However, when I chroot that "cp /home/dgroos/.Xauthority ~/" command doesn't work, saying 'no such file or directory'.
<dgroos> mhall119|work: is this the use-case for binding?
<ace_suares> dgroos: no when you chroot there is no /home/dgroos... just copy the file into your /opt/ltsp... before you chroot
<mhall119|work> dgroos: it's close
<mhall119|work> same idea, making .Xauthority available to the root user under the chroot environment
<mhall119|work> you'll need it in the root user's home directory under the chroot env
<mhall119|work> you'll need to put it there before you chroot
<dgroos> ace_suares and mhall119|work: thanks that's what I was thinking but didn't have enough details--this should do it...
<mhall119|work> dgroos: you can use mount to bind /home/dgroos on top of /opt/ltsp/root or wherever it is
<mhall119|work> instead of copying files around all the time
<dgroos> mhall119|work: can you give me a command?  I've never done this action before.  I'm not sure what 'on top' might mean.  Is it like saying it would be parallel to it? or inside of it?  I'm thinking folder hierarchies here.
<mhall119|work> dgroos: it would be like symlinking, only temporary and transparent
<mhall119|work> let me see if I can find it
<mhall119|work> dgroos: "mount --bind /home/dgross $chrootdir/root", replacing $chrootdir with the actual path
<mhall119|work> it should leave anything currently in $chrootdir/root alone, but any apps looking there will see what is in /home/dgroos
<mhall119|work> so, $chrootdir/root/.Xauthority will actually be /home/dgroos/.Xauthority
<mhall119|work> just don't forget to umount it when you're done
<mhall119|work> anyone here from Tennessee?
<dgroos> mhall119|work: I substituted, "$chrootdir/root" with "/opt/ltsp/i386/root" in the command you provided, hit return and I get this: >
<dgroos> ???
<mhall119|work> dgroos: got what?
<mhall119|work> you might need to run that command through sudo
<dgroos> this symbol: >
<mhall119|work> huh
<mhall119|work> did you leave out the quotes?
<dgroos> Instead of a normal prompt I get ">"
<dgroos> and yes, I left out the quotes.
<mhall119|work> weird...
<dgroos> I'll Ctrl-C to get out of this and then try again as sudo.
<mhall119|work> can you copy/paste the whole line you used?
<dgroos> dgroos@gcos2:~/Desktop$ mount --bind /home/dgroos /opt/ltsp/i386/root"
<dgroos> > ls
<dgroos> >
<dgroos> (As you can see at the > prompt I tried to type in "ls" but when I hit return, all that I got was the ">"
<mhall119|work> dgroos: you left the trailing " in there
<mhall119|work> bash is waiting for another one, which is why you got the > prompt
<mhall119|work> it thinks you're tring to pass in a multi-line string
<dgroos> oops!  OK, I've seen that before and never sure what it meant, thanks.  Now I'll try with sudo and no """ :)
<dgroos> the command worked!  Then I tried chrooting running the install script and... no joy, same error.
<dgroos> wait--I needed to run the: cp /home/dgroos/.Xauthority ~/  right?  so I went back and tried and it wouldn't work: "no such file or directory"
<dgroos> Maybe I'll try the temporary solution of copying it and see if that works.  To unmount as you said, do I use the identical command but just type Unmount instead?
<ace_suares> dgroos: when you say cp /home/dgroos/.Xauthority ~/ , where is ~/ ?
<ace_suares> ie which user are you at the moment u issue the cp command ?
<ace_suares> and did you also try the xhost + solutions that was in the thread I sent you !?
<mhall119|work> dgroos: you just need to "sudo umount $chrootdir/root"
<ace_suares> DISPLAY=:0.0 xhost +
<mhall119|work> ace_suares: does he run that on the thin client or the server?
<dgroos> ace_suares: I was root in the i386 chroot when I did the cp
<mhall119|work> dgroos: you can't do the cp from within the chroot env
<mhall119|work> because you can't see /home/dgross fromthere
<dgroos> ace_suares: yes I actually had done the xhost + command earlier which got me as far as I had gotten.
<mhall119|work> you need to cp /home/dgross/.Xauthority $chrootdir/root/
<ace_suares> mhall119|work: yep !
<ace_suares> nad after that do the chroot
<ace_suares> it'll work :-)
<mhall119|work> in theory
<dgroos> I'm on it!
<dgroos> I should probably unmount, first?
<mhall119|work> yeah, before you cp
<mhall119|work> otherwise you're just copying it ontop of itself
<mhall119|work> which might cause infinite recursion and destroy the space-time continuum
<mhall119|work> in theory
<ace_suares> mhall119|work: not really I think the user he is in the chroot is root and not dgroos
<ace_suares> mhall119|work: superace saves the world ones again :-)
<dgroos> mhall119|work: yes, before umounting I tried to cp and it said it was already there.  Good news though, I got an error message and multiverse still accessible :)
<dgroos> While multiverse still here, no joy still :(  Not that I'm complaining...
<ace_suares> hmm so you succeeded in starting the gui as root when you where NOT in the chroot
<ace_suares> but you did not succeed when you are in the chroot ?
<dgroos> ace_suares: exactly--I'm doing it again right now to double check it still works and it does work as root via sudo su, but does not work in the chroot.
<ace_suares> okay but to make it work in the non-chroot you had to do something with Xauthority, yes?
<ace_suares> I mean the cp command
<dgroos> Right.  Therefore I think the problem is still with Xauthority
<ace_suares> okay now do the same steps like you did just now in the non-chroot envoronment, but stop just before the cp command
<ace_suares> .Instead issue 'pwd' and show us the results. it will print the working directory.
<dgroos> where should I be when issuing this command?
<ace_suares> in ~/
<ace_suares> just do a cd ~/ and then pwd
<ace_suares> i just wnat to know where to are you cp the Xuathority file
<dgroos> /home/dgroos
<ace_suares> so you do cp /home/dgroos/.Xauthoriy ~/ ? how'd that work ?
<ace_suares> bacuse ~/ and /home/dgroos are the same place?
<dgroos> I did this: cp /home/dgroos/.Xauthority ~/ while I was root and it worked...
<ace_suares> but you are root now are you ?
<dgroos> "Now"? not at the moment...
<ace_suares> well try to recreate the steps, becoming root and so, but stop just befor the cp command.
<ace_suares> then do cd ~/ and then pwd
<mhall119|work> dgroos: chroot root is not the same as non-chrooted root
<ace_suares> no mhall119|work we are working now in the non-chroot environment lets stay there for a sec
<dgroos> ok--I just entered the chroot--I'll back out and sudo su...
<ace_suares> good!
<dgroos> it said: /root
<ace_suares> yep! so you where copying /home/dgroos/.Xauthority to /root and then it worked
 * Ahmuck going to create a website of website address that people can blacklist in their DNS for now allowing alternate OSs and browsers outside of MS and IE
<ace_suares> now cp /home/dgroos/.Xuathority to /opt/ltsp/.../root and then after that do the chroot
<ace_suares> and try agian
<ace_suares> i mean cp the file in to the /root/ directory of the $chrootdir
<ace_suares>  /opt/ltsp/i386/root/ probably
<ace_suares> I give up, i don't know enoug of thios stuff. Maybe look in #ltsp for answers ?
<ace_suares> sorry
<dgroos> ace_suares: I'm still trying--just a little slow w/keyboardingish stuff.  #ltsp is a great idea if I can't get it.  Thanks for your effort and I'll want to make a wiki page on how to do this rather specialized but important process.
 * ogra wonders what you try to do
<mhall119|work> dgroos: part of the problem may be that the .Xauthority file is for user dgross, which doesn't exist in the chroot env
<dgroos> ***dgroos sometimes wonders this too ;)
<ogra> well, what do you want to achieve ?
<dgroos> I'm working on installing the program CmapTools into the chroot so that it can work as a localapp in the thin client.
<mhall119|work> ogra: he's trying to install an app on an LTSP server, but the installer requires an Xwindow
<dgroos> the problem is that cmaptools--yeah mhall119|work said it.
<ogra> you need to create a homedir for your user, bind mount your homedir and tmp top the respective equivalents in the chroot
<ogra> s/top/to
<mhall119|work> basically he's having to run as root under a chroot environment, and is having trouble forwarding X data from there back to the X server on the workstation he's sitting at
<dgroos> I can get the installer to work as regular user, as sudo, as sudo su when in my desktop, but not as root in the chroot.
<ogra> there should be plenty of howtos for running X apps in chroot environments for debian
<dgroos> Cool, a decent google search terms would be...?
<mhall119|work> dgroos: http://www.debian-administration.org/articles/494
<dgroos> mhall119|work thanks! and thanks ogra for the tip.
<mhall119|work> dgroos: try "echo $XAUTHORITY" as sudo su on your desktop, and under chroot, see what they say
<ogra> that still wont work
 * ogra sighs
<mhall119|work> dgroos: also http://www.debian-administration.org/articles/494
<ogra> dgroos, http://paste.ubuntu.com/234638/
<ogra> dgroos, try that, but be careful, the app has access to your server through it, if it modifies devices etc that might damage your server install
<dgroos> wow! thought it was over, had lunch and come back to many ideas--you guys are amazing!
<mhall119|work> dgroos: we're amazing when we get it working
<mhall119|work> right now we're just helpful
<mhall119|work> an "E" for Effort, as they say
<dgroos> ogra: I did the echo $XAUTHORITY command in both roots and in both places came up with a blank line being printed.
<ogra> try my paste above
<mhall119|work> dgroos: what about as your regular user
<ogra> xauth wont get you anywhere
<ogra> to access the xserver you need access to the sockets in /tmp
<mhall119|work> oh?
<mhall119|work> I didn't know that
<dgroos> mhall119|work :)
<ogra> bind mount /home /dev /tmp, make a backup of passwd and group in the chroot, chroot into your chroot dir etc etc ... as i pasted above ...
<mhall119|work> yeah, follow ogra's instructions, they look very comprehensive
<mhall119|work> I also didn't think to bind /dev and /proc, but I guess for an installer they may be needed
<dgroos> ogra: I'll head to pastebin now...  (also, echo $XAUTHORITY printed the same, a blank line, as normal user)
<ogra> please check that paste for errors first, i just typed it in quickly
<ogra> but essentially you should get whats required
<dgroos> ogra: OK by mhall119|work definition, you've achieved 'amazing' status :) :)  It Works!  Thanks.  I'll make a wiki page (which template) with what I can add and come back here and link it so you can improve it...
<ogra> but please put a big red warning on top :)
<ogra> the chroot has full acess to your host machine with that
<ogra> if someone installs any third party binaries that modify settings on /proc or /dev that will/might damage the host system
<dgroos> I'll put the warning.  How does a person know if some software might modify settings on /proc or /dev?
<ogra> well, thats the point, if you need that solution because it is a binary installer for something you essentially dont
<ogra> what exactly did you install ?
<Ahmuck> my rooting program
<Ahmuck> heh, just kidding
<mhall119|work> or is he?....
<Ahmuck> ace_suares: u have a task for me, a wiki page to look at ?
<dgroos> I'm installing CmapTools.  It is the best concept mapping software available from all I've used/checked-out.  It really is a program that should be in every school computer.  Have I gushed enough?  http://cmap.ihmc.us/conceptmap.html
<mhall119|work> hey ogra, have a quick question about soyuz
<mhall119|work> sorry, I was being nosey and poking around your profile, and thusly learned about soyuz
<mhall119|work> I have an Ubuntu derivative, Qimo, that desperately needs to be managed by something like Launchpad
<mhall119|work> can I use Launchpad for that?
<Ahmuck> oooh, cmaptools would be soo good at visualualizing edubuntu
<Ahmuck> no?
<ogra> mhall119|work, i'd ask in #launchpad, but given LP is opensource you should be able to set up your own local soyuz instance
<mhall119|work> ogra: I really don't have the resources to run my own LP
<mhall119|work> I'll check out #launchpad though, thanks
<ogra> there might be #soyuz too, not sure
<dgroos> Ahmuck: exactly what I had been thinking. :)  Want to download the software and we can make a map on a cmapserver I run on the internet.
<dgroos> We can co-edit it, even synchronously which is wondrous to behold!
<dgroos> Cool, also, is that cmaps made on the cmapserver are simultaneously published on the web.  CmapTools is freeware to all education organizations.  They have no interest in opensourcing it though, I think because of military grants that have funded it.
<ace_suares> Ahmuck: you can help dgroos putting the info on the wiki and the send the link to the page to edubuntu-users so we all can look at it and enjoy!
<ace_suares> Ahmuck:  if you are on -devel, i sent 2 mails about tasks that need be vetted in the next meeting (when is the next meeting)
<ace_suares> Gonna cook and eat now, tg ogra cam in to help dgroos :-))))))))
<Ahmuck> dgroos: not oss?
<TunaSushi> hi all.  is edubuntu a full ubuntu-based OS, or is it an addon disc for ubuntu?
<dgroos> Ahmuck: no :( and though many education leaders on the web have encouraged them, they won't.  Some day, I'd like to get a big grant and make an open source tool with it's capabilities, but better.
<dgroos> And, I don't know if any open source projects already in existence could be used as a base.
<ace_suares> TunaSushi: full ubuntu based OS but there are addons to... check http://www.edubuntu.org/
<Ahmuck> TunaSushi: it's an addon at this time
<Ahmuck> however, edubuntu decided to at the last meeting to create a dvd full ubuntu-based OS at our last meeting
<Ahmuck> hrm, did it change recently ?
<TunaSushi> so currently the proper process is to install ubuntu, then install from the edubuntu cd?
<ace_suares> TunaSushi: Rather than an operating system on its own, Edubuntu 9.04 provides an educational application "layer" on top of an existing Ubuntu desktop. Edubuntu 9.04 is an Add-on on top of regular Ubuntu desktop. Start by downloading and installing Ubuntu 9.04, then you may install the Edubuntu educational layer one of the following ways:
<ace_suares> TunaSushi: from www.edubuntu.org
<ace_suares> so I was wrong, it is an add-on cd.
<ace_suares> But you coudl also install Ubuntu and then
<ace_suares> For users with a fast Internet connection it is possible to instead just go to "Add/Remove..." in the Applications menu and select educational software from the Education and Games categories.
<mhall119|work> ace_suares: for now it is, there's plans for a full DVD image that is directly installable
<ace_suares> So actually: install ubuntu and do the rest via internet if your connections is fast enough
<ace_suares> mhall119|work: I lik eplans
<ace_suares> I like plans
<Ahmuck> 30 day trail of wind or wind top by msi for schools
<Ahmuck> anybody use the msi?  what's the quality like?
#edubuntu 2009-07-28
<ace_suares> quiet here
<Ahmuck_> .
<ace_suares> hi
<ace_suares> gotta go sleep soon. But I just upgrade a running server from 6.06 to 8.04 about 5000 miles/9000 km away.
<ace_suares> That was fun. Amazing that these people can make such software.
<ace_suares> nighty
<dgroos> hasta pasta
<Ahmuck> hi dgroos
<dgroos> Howdy Ahmuck
<dgroos> Ahmuck: here's a sample cmap on the web.  It's not a concept map though, just a web: https://cmap.mpls.k12.mn.us/servlet/SBReadResourceServlet?rid=1GB1J213P-BTSM22-H25Q&partName=htmltext
<dgroos> oh yea, don't pay attention to the security warnings--I still need to buy and install a certificate from GoDaddy for the site...
<Ahmuck> heh
<dgroos> And here's a more informative one, presenting some of the concepts of the Growing Communities of Scientist project I'm working on.  https://cmap.mpls.k12.mn.us/servlet/SBReadResourceServlet?rid=1168132868165_1388154678_2906&partName=htmltext
<dgroos> between my students, other teachers and my self, we've got over a thousand of these things.  You can also annotate bubbles with links, making this a great tool to explain Edubuntu.
<Ahmuck> freemind?
<dgroos> Lots of lines--nice tree look.  More limited layout options and I couldn't figure out how to write the connecting phrases between bubbles which elevates a web or mind-map to a concept map.
<dgroos> Also, I don't think they do the simultaneous editing of maps which is powerful.
<dgroos> Have you worked with it?
<Ahmuck> freemind?  yes
<dgroos> what have you used it for?
<Ahmuck> organizing my thoughts
<dgroos> I like a lot that it is open source.  Is there a server on the web for them so that they can be directly published on the web?
<dgroos> Hi Svenstaro
<Svenstaro> Hiho
<Ahmuck> hiyo Svenstaro
<Ahmuck> i'm glad to see you
<Svenstaro> I should be on IRC more regularly I guess
<Ahmuck> interestedin some of the more documentation/wiki stuff?
<Svenstaro> Actually, no. Today I'm trying to work down my list of tasks as well as I can despite my ADHD and see how far I can come. The next-next task on my list is fixing up Sabayon.
<dgroos> Ah! working on Sabayon-- I like to hear that one...
<Ahmuck> u might want to hook up with sbalneav or stgraber then.  i don't know which.  i know they are actively working on it
<dgroos> Mainly sbalneav, I beleav
<Svenstaro> That'd be sbalneav. And yes, I know. I'll try to take the bug report and don't do stuff myself.
<Svenstaro> But still, how hard can it be to launch an Xnest, do some stuff in it, end the xnest and put the changes into the students accounts?
<dgroos> :)
<dgroos> Nestor explained some of the difficulties involved, sounded like a can of worms.
<Svenstaro> There are no problem that a bit of bash hacking couldn't solve :)
<Svenstaro> Mhm time for breakfast
<dgroos> Time for bed :)  Night.
<Svenstaro> Time for bedfast. Night
<Ahmuck> anybody here seen landscape?
<nubae> yup
<Ahmuck> hows that compare to ltsp?
<Ahmuck> hi nubae
<Ahmuck> thought you had dropped off the earth
<Ahmuck> :)
<nubae> why's that? :-)
<Svenstar0> Landscape seems to be what would be needed to manage many PCs at once (not thin clients)
<Svenstar0> Seems like a good solution for what it does.
<Ahmuck> this might be a better solution than ltsp?
<Ahmuck> LDAP, NFS, and Landscape?
<Ahmuck> though it appears to be a "software as a service" which i hate those type of situations
<Svenstar0> It's a completely different solution to the problem. It assumes harddisks on the clients which isn't a bad thing to begin with considering all the problems involved with high network bandwidth and multimedia application on LTSP but it doesn't address thin clients per-se.
<nubae> highvoltage pint
<nubae> ping even
<highvoltage> nubae: pont and pong
<nubae> the package ltsp-cluster-lbagent seems broken in karmic
<nubae> have u tested it?
<nubae> at least, I can't install it...  and stops anything else from being upgraded
<highvoltage> nubae: what happens?
<nubae> * Starting ltsp-cluster-lbagent...                                      [fail]
<nubae> invoke-rc.d: initscript ltsp-cluster-lbagent, action "start" failed.
<nubae> dpkg: error processing ltsp-cluster-lbagent (--configure):
<ogra> is that in a chroot ?
<nubae> nope
<nubae> in a vz
<ogra> so daemons can run regulary and you have a proc filesystem and udev runs etc etc
<nubae> yup
<nubae> so... any ideas why its failing? I've tried it on another karmic image, with the same results
<highvoltage> nubae: it happens here as well,
<highvoltage> nubae: it's because start-stop-daemon doesn't "understand --daemon"
<highvoltage> nubae: sorry, that was just because I didn't have some variables set, I'll get on it
<nubae> ok, how can I fix it locally for now?
<highvoltage> nubae: I'm looking at the start-stop-deamon man page, but the line actually looks fine
<highvoltage> nubae: I'll have to ask stgraber
<nubae> looks like lbagent module is missing
<nubae> root@ltsp-appserv01:/# ltsp-cluster-lbagent
<nubae> Traceback (most recent call last):
<nubae>   File "/usr/sbin/ltsp-cluster-lbagent", line 5, in <module>
<nubae>     from lbagent import main
<nubae> ImportError: No module named lbagent
<nubae> well its not missing, just can't find it
<dgroos> Anyone know where I can get newish docs for the Sabayon (profile management)?  I've seen this blog but it's pretty old and not complete: http://www.gnome.org/~seth/blog/sabayon
<Svenstar0> dgroos, you are most likely out of luck there
<dgroos> :(
<mhall119|work> morning
<mhall119|work> is Sabayon only for Gnome, or would it work for XFCE too?
<dgroos> Morning mhall119|work
<dgroos> That Q is beyond me...
<dgroos> Now if you had a question about sequencing instructional units or useful activities to teach the 3 kinds of tectonic plate interaction :) ...
<dgroos> BTW have you checked out this page of Edubuntu Community overview?  We have yet to have a developer or consultant enliven their sections.
<dgroos> http://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0AfDSviukLb6wZGdzY2huOHhfMTFndGY0ZGRnYw&hl=en
<ace_suares> dgroos: yeah i've looked at it, seen that it is update too
<ace_suares> i wouldnt have high hopes of anyone adding too it
<ace_suares> for different reasons
<ace_suares> i was going to mail the list about it and how it's a good idea
<ace_suares> but i would have also converted it to the wiki and ask you to see if you canwork with that
<ace_suares> the problem with the google doc as is is that you have to invite people to participate
<ace_suares> i might mail about it this week
<ace_suares> first i wanted to see how it developed :_)
<dgroos> ace_suares: I agreee that this info needs to go on our wiki.
<dgroos> I also agree that any new technology has an entrance curve, I remember you saying that about the wiki.
<dgroos> I also think that google-docs has advantages not offered by our wiki eg wysiwyg editing, simultaneous editing and easy versioning.
<dgroos> If you added some developer and/or consultant perspectives, we would be closer...
<dgroos> As a teacher (and I've created a few pages on the wiki too) I do like these wysiwyg features.
<ace_suares> dgroos: i like the wysiwig too but edubuntu has the wiki now
<ace_suares> I hope to at least clean up the wiki and then discuss other tools
 * ogra points to gobby
<ace_suares> you got to explain me one day how we can all edit the googledoc, i mean, should we all have an account at some place that automatically gives access, maybe via openid
<mhall119|work> gobby is good for real-time collaboration
<mhall119|work> but it doesn't have the permanance of a wiki
<ogra> try gobby.ubuntu.com with it ;)
<ogra> if you have a central server its great for WIP documents
<ogra> which you then dump into the wiki
<dgroos> I like--better said, love--wikis.  They are the shared knowledge repositories of a community.
<highvoltage> mhall119|work: it would be so nice if wiki's had gobby-like features
<dgroos> Thanks ace_suares for your focus on wiki-cleaning.
<highvoltage> ace_suares: how is the wiki-cleaning going?
<dgroos> I was looking at google-docs again and it seems a new feature (I've not seen it before) is sharing with a list-serve.  Not sure how it works.  Let me try it and see...
<dgroos> http://docs.google.com/support/bin/answer.py?answer=86152&topic=15129
<dgroos> oops--here's the link to sharing with lists: http://docs.google.com/support/bin/answer.py?answer=66343
<Ahmuck> any need for a icecast/ices radio broadcast doc?
<dgroos> OK--I've tried to share w/both user and devel lists and supposedly doesn't require sign-in--not tried before.
<ace_suares> dgroos: cppl so its possible. I like the gobby suggestion too. For instance, you and Ahmuck would could be working on a documents enhancing Gavins instructions and the make a wiki page from it... for example
<ogra> thats how we work at UDS, all people discussing a spec use gobby and take notes in the same document ... at the end of the discussion the doc gets turned into a wikipage
<Ahmuck> ace_suares: my backs against the wall here at work.  i'm overextended.  if you have a particular task, i'll take small tasks, but you'll have to assign them
<Ahmuck> so what would it take to get gobby to work here?
<ogra> apt-get install gooby :)
<dgroos> ace_suares cppl?  Calcasieu Parish Public Library?
<ogra> and in the connection dialog use gobby.ubuntu.com
<Ahmuck> ubuntu is causing me attention deficit disorder :(
<Svenstaro> Using google docs is silly, yet another resource to look after. WE HAVE ENOUGH DISTRIBUTION. Sorry for the caps.
<dgroos> Gobby sounds very cool.  Let me check it out and I'll get back--I'll try to convert the google doc and see how that goes as well.
<dgroos> Svenstaro--google-docs is only a temp. collab. tool.  I use it for creating a grant, planning a trip, etc.  It's a powerful tool for such.
<Ahmuck> abiword ?
<Ahmuck> ogra, so i've got gobby
<Ahmuck> and connected
<Ahmuck> creating a test doc won't hurt?
<Ahmuck> ace_suares: so ur commited to managing the wiki?
<Ahmuck> ogra: k, got it
<Ahmuck> i see a list of docs, i assume they are something that was actively worked on and are available to edit ?
<Ahmuck> dgroos: u here?
<jelkner> hi all, i have a question about interest on this channel in sugar
<dgroos> working on installing gobby on my mac--while I've already have X11 installed, looks like I need gcc and more and there isn't a simple apt-get...
<jelkner> has it been a topic here?
<Ahmuck> it has been
<dgroos> I'm moving to my Ubuntu
<Ahmuck> nubae has been pushing to get it done
<jelkner> Ahmuck: great
<jelkner> thanks
<Ahmuck> jelkner: ur question?
<Ahmuck> i'd like to see it.  iirc, it has not been packaged.
<Ahmuck> i'd like to use it
<jelkner> Ahmuck: let's talk
<jelkner> i am *very* interested in sugar
<jelkner> since i work in a school
<Ahmuck> u develop?
<jelkner> sort of
<jelkner> i'm a teacher ;-)
<Ahmuck> been to the #sugar channel?
<jelkner> (those that can, do and all ;-)
<jelkner> all the time
<jelkner> http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Sugar_Labs_DC
<dgroos> welcome teachers!
<jelkner> in fact, i had a student intern working all summer on a sugar project
<jelkner> specifically, he was working on gasp, and adding it to pippy
<jelkner> what i'm grappling with now is what we here in dc should take on next
<jelkner> one possibility is contributing to soas
<jelkner> but that is fedora
<jelkner> and i'm an ubuntu guy
<jelkner> so i wanted to ask here first if there is interest in getting sugar to work again on ubuntu
<jelkner> (or work for the first time, really)
<jelkner> it sort of worked on hardy
<jelkner> but not really
<jelkner> i want to see if there is a way we can contribute
<jelkner> and find out what has been going on
<highvoltage> jelkner: morgs has been working on sugar packaging, but besides that interest has been relatively low. there's been a few people who wanted to try it out
<Ahmuck> actually i think nubae would enjoy the help
<Ahmuck> or morgs
<Ahmuck> i'd like to see it, but haven't been able to, as i understand it doesn't quit work in ubuntu
<jelkner> if interest is relatively low (as unfortunate as that may be), then i would find more fertile fields to sow elsewhere
<jelkner> that's what i wanted to figure out
<Ahmuck> *sigh*
<jelkner> i'm ready to be an active participant in an effort
<Ahmuck> what would be low interest?
<Ahmuck> considered
<jelkner> not sure
<jelkner> basically, i have much enthusiasm but limited skills
<jelkner> that can be a recipe for trouble
<Ahmuck> i think for sugar to have a higher interest on *ubuntu, first it's going to need a package that works
<Ahmuck> ah, ok
<jelkner> Ahmuck: precisely
<jelkner> that's the kind of thing i can't do
<jelkner> i'm interested in:
<Ahmuck> maybee a document on how to get current sugar to work on ubuntu (not from package repos)
<jelkner> 1. learning and teaching sugar development
<jelkner> 2. using sugar with kids (and other learners)
<jelkner> 3. writing educational materials for sugar
<jelkner> 4. developing Activities for sugar
<jelkner> what i can't do is
<jelkner> 1. the low level os stuff to make sugar work with ubuntu
<jelkner> 2. packaging
<jelkner> though i have a few students who can package
<highvoltage> jelkner: imho sugar doesn't really get the credit it deserves, it's a pity about negreponte's recent comments as well
<Lns> Hey all
<jelkner> highvoltage: sugar is *really cool*
<highvoltage> hey Lns
<jelkner> i didn't see negroponte's comments
<highvoltage> jelkner: I'll find a link
<Lns> FYI, since you're talking about Sugar, the IT director at the district I work with is VERY interested in Sugar for the younger students
<jelkner> but i don't particularly care what he thinks
<Lns> it would be *awesome* to get it working well via ltsp
<jelkner> Lns: totally!
<jelkner> we run ubuntu in my classroom both ways
<jelkner> ltsp and local boot to hard drive
<Ahmuck> jelkner: based on your comments, i'd say that what you and do can be done for sugar in general
<Ahmuck> more importantly, there is currently an interest in documentation for apps in ubuntu
<highvoltage> jelkner: http://www.olpcnews.com/people/negroponte/olpc_biggest_mistake_sugar.html
<Ahmuck> and it would appear that your interested in "neutral" stuff, i think it'd be great if you were writing, etc
<jelkner> highvoltage: thanks
<jelkner> it is interesting
<jelkner> sugar is an ambitious project
<jelkner> it was also not ready at olpc launch
<jelkner> it is only getting "ready" now
<jelkner> but it is very cool
<jelkner> kids love it
<jelkner> and it will only get better
<highvoltage> jelkner: I agree
<jelkner> so the question is am trying to resolve here today is:
<jelkner> what makes more sense:  working with sugar as a fedora spin (since redhat does have interest and is supporting it)
<jelkner> or checking out my friends in ubuntu space to see if there is interest over here
<Lns> jelkner: imho working with sugar as a generic, portable, classic OSS project (not distro based) would be best
<highvoltage> jelkner: are they mutually exclusive?
<jelkner> my long term goal is to develop an educational program around supporting and developing sugar
<highvoltage> jelkner: I know that myself, LaserJock, morgs and a few others would very, very much like sugar packaged and well-integrated
<jelkner> highvoltage: not at all, but given limited time and resources, i wanted to figure out where to focus now
<jelkner> in the long term i'll be looking for sugar on my favorite os ;-)
<highvoltage> jelkner: yep, that's a constant struggle, figuring out where to apply yourself best
<highvoltage> (I know it is for me, at least)
<jelkner> but for the time being if there is not ubuntu community interest i should wait for that to materialize (which i think it eventually will)
<jelkner> highvoltage: i totally agree with you
<jelkner> and it is requires constant reevaluation as things change
<jelkner> so this is just a "checking in for now" visit
<jelkner> to see what's up
<jelkner> you have been most helpful
<highvoltage> jelkner: I do suggest you talk to morgs as well
<jelkner> can i email him?
<highvoltage> jelkner: he'll be able to give you a *very* good idea of what's happeing with the ubuntu packages. I think he got very close to getting it right in the last release
<jelkner> cool
<jelkner> i should definitely do that first, then
<highvoltage> jelkner: yep, morgan@ubuntu.com
 * jelkner goes off to write an email...
<highvoltage> awesome :)
<jelkner> highvoltage: a swing and a miss
<jelkner> i sent an email
<jelkner> but it bounced
<jelkner> i cc'd you
<jelkner> 550 Mailbox quota exceeded (in reply to RCPT TO command)
<jelkner> did you get it?
<jelkner> i've got to run... i'll follow up tomorrow
<Lns>  Does anyone here have an Ubuntu Jaunty LTSP setup they can test tux4kids apps on with sound? We need to figure out whether the issues in https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/tuxpaint/+bug/269082 are still present in Jaunty...it would be much appreciated!!
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 269082 in tuxpaint "tuxpaint and other tux SDL driven apps slow down and/or freeze thin client terminals (ltsp)" [High,Confirmed]
<Ahmuck> Lns: i do, but i've got no time to test today
<Ahmuck> iirc, it was SDL sound
<Lns> Ahmuck: yeah that's what i hear it is too
<Lns> and then the ball is dropped since upstream SDL
<Ahmuck> i have problems with pulse on my system
<Ahmuck> there is some question as it might be 64 bit proc, 32 bit server, and 32 bit clients
<Lns> what problems?
<Ahmuck> sound quits, and reverts to the server
<Ahmuck> to get sound back, i have to re-start clients
<Lns> hmmm... https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libsdl1.2/+bug/216397
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 216397 in libsdl1.2 "sdl patch for better pulseaudio support" [Medium,Confirmed]
<dgroos> Not sure when to mention this... Since installing jaunty, when ltsp client boots, the beautiful sound it used to make now has static/ almost firecracker sounds in the background.  Any one else seen this?  not just on 1 client machine.
<Ahmuck> same here
<dgroos> at first, thought it was the 'new sound of jaunty'. but not nice.
<Ahmuck> no, something broke in jaunty
<Lns> maybe that's about on par w/latest ubuntu ltsp installs stability? ;)
<Lns> *static*  means "You're in for some problems!!"
<Lns> *grin*
<ace_suares> hi
<ace_suares> does anyone have the email address for jelkner who was interested in sugar ?
<highvoltage> ace_suares: jeff@elkner.net
<ace_suares> highvoltage: thx!
<dgroos> Hi sbalneav
<dgroos> I've reinstalled jaunty, hoping that would cure my sabayon ills.  To no avail.
<dgroos> What should I do with the logs?  Is it your birthday? ;)
<Ahmuck> find a way to keep jelkner.  he's an instructor, the kind of people edubuntu needs
<Ahmuck> actually i see a group coming togather.  ace_suares, dgroos, jelkner, nubae, lns, mhall119, sbalneav stgraber highvoltage alkisg svenstaro, ogra - did i miss anybody?  a mixture of non-tech, non-programmers, programmers, etc.
<Svenstaro> Who are highlight my devine name.
 * Lns raises an eyebrow
<Ahmuck> er, sorry, i forgot laserjock (didn't see his nick in the list)
<mhall119> who what?
<alkisg> Heh... yup, lotsa people, I think edubuntu revival is actually possible now...
<Svenstaro> alkisg, with that attitude, you don't even need to be here. Practice your optimism somewhere else!
<Ahmuck> :p
<alkisg> :D
<Lns> Ahmuck: so a "group" huh?
<Ahmuck> *shrugs* a working group that is moving forward, excitedly.  (is that what we call a mob)
<Ahmuck> or schoolground scuffle
<Lns> ;)
<Lns> I think an official group is necessary for us Educationally involved, Linux thin-client folk
<Lns> I've been trying to think of how to manifest something like that
<Ahmuck> actually i don't think it needs to be restricted to thin clients anymore.  with wiki power, it's possible to outline three server/client scenarios
<Ahmuck> 1. ltsp
<Ahmuck> 2. ldap/nfs etc.
<Ahmuck> 3. ubuntu server thingy
<Svenstaro> Explain 3. please
<Ahmuck> oh, i ran into it the other day when do a ubuntu server install
<Svenstaro> No I mean, what would it imply?
<Ahmuck> i'll need some time to think.  i've been pushing 12 hour days, and i'm exhausted.  brain won't work until i get more foooood!
<Svenstaro> Install Ubuntu Server on every client?
<Lns> have you guys heard of schoolforge?
<Ahmuck> ah, no, one server maintians updates, machine configuraion, user confiugriona
<Lns> http://www.schoolforge.net/
<Ahmuck> it's there, but it appears to be "software as a service"
<Svenstaro> But the other clients are all harddisk installed?
<Ahmuck> however from a school point of view, it works
<Ahmuck> yes, ubuntu is installed on every machine, one to track them all.  kind of like Lord of the Ubuntus
<Ahmuck> if i understand it correctly
<Lns> Ahmuck: you're thinking about "Puppet" i think
<Ahmuck> lns, looking at link now
<Ahmuck> lns, nope
<Svenstaro> That's neat. So pretty much like Landscape
<Ahmuck> but that is another options i suppose
<Ahmuck> Svenstaro: yes, landscape is what i was talking about
<Ahmuck> technically any one of those four scenerios are possible, just need to be outlined in the wiki
<Ahmuck> with guidence on teh best option so the end user can make the intelligent choice that works for them
<Svenstaro> Good thing we're on the same track. I had independantly figured those 3 out as the most feasible.
<Svenstaro> LTSP should expliciply deal with localapps.
<Lns> Ahmuck: http://www.canonical.com/projects/landscape
<Lns> err... everyone... ^^^ =)
<Svenstaro> Even more concretely, it should deal with Firefox.
<Lns> hmm...landscape looks very promising...though does anyone have any actual experience with it?
<Svenstaro> No, it's proprietary :(
<Svenstaro> Not usable for school therefor
<Lns> proprietary? it's a service
#edubuntu 2009-07-29
<alkisg> Is anybody interested in helping to port the fedora's "user manager" python-based tool to ubuntu? http://www.techotopia.com/index.php/Managing_Fedora_Linux_Users_and_Groups
<LaserJock> alkisg: do you think the Fedora app would be pretty close to ideal for educational setting?
<alkisg> LaserJock: not really, it would need a lot of plugins to work for most educational setups
<alkisg> But it's the best "base" I've seen so far...
<alkisg> E.g. a lot of import/export plugins (csv, ldap, other passwd/group files...)
<LaserJock> do you know if the Fedora app has a plugin framework?
<alkisg> No, I don't know. I should probably be saying "fork", not "port" here :)
<Lns> alkisg: last I heard, if it's akin to RH's 'system-config-users' tool...it would be easier to make a new one than to port the existing code
<alkisg> Because all the backend is fedora specific afaik
<alkisg> Lns: well, why not reuse the python front end? Even the dialog manipulation code is something to start with...
<LaserJock> I'm just wondering if the UI, etc. would be suitable
<Lns> You guys need to see this =) A shirt I had made by a local shirt shop in the same building as my office :) http://logicalnetworking.net/other/school-oss-shirt-back.jpg -and- http://logicalnetworking.net/other/school-oss-shirt-front.jpg
<alkisg> The UI looks very suitable to me
<LaserJock> is it generally how you envision a user management app?
<Lns> alkisg: anything is better than gnome's users-admin ;)
<LaserJock> Lns: nice
<alkisg> LaserJock: here's a screenshot of what I came up while thinking on how to design a user manager tool - and then I saw fedora's tool and that was pretty much what I had in mind... http://users.sch.gr/alkisg/temp/users-manager.png
<alkisg> Lns, they're pretty :)
<LaserJock> I was just wondering if there was some slick way we could present the UI
<LaserJock> that would be more usable than the traditional flat list
<alkisg> I was thinking edit => apply filter for that
<alkisg> E.g. filter out some users based on whatever criteria are needed
<LaserJock> well
<ace_suares> hi
<LaserJock> but just wondering a little more "out of the box"
<Lns> the most sensible imho would be by class, but in higher grades you only have a 'home class' so it might be moot
<Lns> class as in classroom
<LaserJock> you could, for instance in a school, have a classroom or school layout
<LaserJock> that lets you clock on the room or grade
<LaserJock> *click
<alkisg> If the teacher can save a selection, then he can easily select anything he wants...
<Lns> filter by group would be best i think...groups can take care of however people want to do it
<LaserJock> but a flat list of users is still the best you think?
<alkisg> Yes, it's easier for the teacher to visualize / use it
<Lns> LaserJock: i think choice is the key thing here
<LaserJock> well, yes
<LaserJock> but we can't give infinite choice
<alkisg> Most teachers I now never use Active Directory because it's complicated... We need something simple :)
<Lns> how about expansions by group? like those little arrow > and downward by group
<alkisg> *know
<LaserJock> I'm just wondering if from a usability perspective if flat lists are the most usable UI for the task
<LaserJock> they very well could be
<LaserJock> I'm not a teacher
<Lns> LaserJock: search functionality is required for flat lists
<Lns> which users-admin doesn't have...and i seriously can't believe that
<alkisg> I'm just imagining an overgrown "select users by..." dialog to make user-selection easier. Other than that, flat looks like the best choice for me.
<LaserJock> users-admin was made for "typical" use were you have maybe < 3 regular users and systems stuff
<LaserJock> so flat list that is 1) filterable 2) searchable 3) sortable
<Lns> alkisg: maybe some sort of meta-group functionality specific to schools...but again, you get into so many different types of schools it might be too hard to try and cover it all
<Lns> groups, to me, always seem like the sensible choice. you can have a group for anything.
<alkisg> Lns, not really, there are only a few fields in a user, so you can actually cover them alll
<LaserJock> Lns: perhaps tags?
<Lns> ooo good idea LaserJock
<LaserJock> because the regular system groups is very machine oriented
<Lns> LaserJock: right but you can really use them for anything
<LaserJock> what you want is to be able to arbitrarily tag without it screwing everything up
<Lns> what would adding people to groups screw up?
<alkisg> How is a tag different from defining a new group?
<LaserJock> well
<LaserJock> in my world groups == permissions
<ace_suares> LaserJock: would be good to have groups and users that have not much to do with the system
<dgroos> I'd like to put in my 2 cents at the risk of looking foolish...
<ace_suares> like with email. all users are in database (ldap) and the actual software is run by the mail daemon
<Lns> dgroos: i'm the only fool in here =p
<dgroos> :)
<LaserJock> if we start pushing more group-driven stuff then a bunch of arbitrary system groups  might get messy
<Lns> LaserJock: not if they're sortable/searchable/filterable ;)
<ace_suares> i think the groups should have nothing to do with systyem groups
<LaserJock> whereas if we let teachers do tagging that is only used within the context of the UI then you can help increase usability without a lot of backend mess
<dgroos> I'd like to see a list of groups in 1 column, and if I clicked on a group, it would show all present users in the next column.
<LaserJock> dgroos: yeah, I like that very much
<Lns> me to
<Lns> too
<dgroos> Also, I'd like a way to not show the 'nobody' etc groups that I don't need.
<LaserJock> easily doable, yep
<dgroos> Also, I'd like to be able to click on 'level1' group, for example, and then be able to 'drag and drop' them into 'level2' group.
<LaserJock> the level itself or the users within the group?
<alkisg> dgroos: what if you right clicked on a group, and this popped up a menu with items like "select users from this group", "add users from this group to the currently selected users", "remove users from this group from the current selection" etc?
<alkisg> Wouln't that be more powerful?
<dgroos> Also, I'd like to be able to delete users from this interface.
<alkisg> (and simpler both in programming and in visualizing it?)
<LaserJock> alkisg: I kind of find the 2nd and 3rd thing you had confusing
<LaserJock> I can see "select users from this group", but I'm not sure about the others
<LaserJock> I wonder if you could have a basic cut-n-paste on users :-)
<dgroos> hmm... I'm thinking the 'physical desk with slips of paper' metaphor is easier than the heirarchical, right-click and select options--for us gui-types that is.
<Lns> "Drill down groups" might be a useful term
<alkisg> LaserJock: suppose you want to select class A and class B, how would you do it?
<ace_suares> also, the interface shoudl be web based
<ace_suares> i think
<ace_suares> easier to make
<LaserJock> why?
<ace_suares> and remotable
<Lns> ace_suares: easy to do with a properly coded backend
<ace_suares> hmm
<Lns> it should be portable I think
<dgroos> cool idea to make it web-based.  A plugin with webmin?
<Lns> webmin...gross =)
 * LaserJock chokes to death in the corner
<alkisg> web doesn't support dragging, right clicking, list sorting etc. It *shouldn't* be web-based. That's webmin's area :)
<dgroos> very :)
<alkisg> (unless someone wants to use yui or another library which would make the browser crawl with 100 users...)
<Lns> I honestly think eDirectory/LDAP/AD should be paid attention to...they're tried and true topologies for stuff like this
<ace_suares> Sorry i am just falling into the discussion and have no time to follow it trough now but for me it's the thing most prominently missing from all my dealings with ltsp/edubuntu and i've been thinking a lot about it. Really like to have something to hold on to in the wiki or somewhere else. I'll dig the irc logs but if someone has time to summarize the disc and put it on the list or so i'd be very happy
<ace_suares> bye for now
<ace_suares> good discussion!!!
<ace_suares> alkisg: hm you are a bit outdated drop and drag all very well doable with prototype, ruby on raisl etc
<dgroos> adios ace_suares
<alkisg> ace_suares: ever actually tried that with 100 rows?
<alkisg> I did. It's not usable. :)
<Lns> yeah..and try it on a thin client ;)
<alkisg> Flash is a little better, but again, not usable.
<LaserJock> well, I don't really see any reason for a web interface at the present time
<LaserJock> but if this thing has plugins it could grow that feature I suppose
<dgroos> doesn't have to run on a thin client--can always use NX to go to the server.
<alkisg> Sure, if the back-end is cleanly seperated there shouldn't be any problem in a different front-end
<Lns> how about a well specced ldap setup then....
<LaserJock> what about schools that aren't using LTSP or thin clients?
<Lns> that's really what we're talking about
<alkisg> I don't think this tool would have anything ltsp specific in it...
<LaserJock> right
<dgroos> I think ltsp is the wave of the near future--if I have anything to do with it.  It's starting to come of age...
<LaserJock> so there's basically 3 classes of user management, as I understand it
<LaserJock> 1) "normal" few users 2) mass users on same machine 3) LDAP
<alkisg> Why are these different?
<alkisg> It's just different back-end-plugins...
<LaserJock> I'm saying different classes
<alkisg> All using the same UI and the rest-of-the-plugins...
<LaserJock> i.e. different use cases
<LaserJock> what I'm trying to get at is some general design goals
<alkisg> ok
<LaserJock> so the UI should be able to handle all 3 of those use cases well, right?
<alkisg> Right
<Lns> yup
<LaserJock> so we don't want it so overkill that the person that just has a couple users is frightened away
<Lns> LaserJock: plugins :)
<LaserJock> but we need it usable for the admin who's trying to manage 200 students
<dgroos> dgroos is eating dinner but will be back...
<alkisg> I think this UI is just fine - just with lots more menus for plugins, selections etc: http://www.techotopia.com/index.php/Managing_Fedora_Linux_Users_and_Groups
<LaserJock> well, "plugins" is easy to throw out there, but in terms of actually coding the thing I think it's not so easy
 * alkisg thinks the first implementation will be necessarily thrown away after 1-2 years and reimplemented from scratch :)
<LaserJock> that may be
<LaserJock> but it'd be nice for it to be adoptable in the mean time
<LaserJock> so the steps would be
<alkisg> Sure
<LaserJock> 1) do user and group addition, modification, and removal via python
<LaserJock> 2) get a UI that similar to Fedora's and users-admin
<LaserJock> 3) make it do LDAP
<Lns> +1
<LaserJock> and if it can be done via python modules at some point I can build my Edubuntu Control Panel :-)
<Lns> python really seems to be the way to go!
<Lns> i'm outtie..need to go home and eat!
<Lns> *cheers*
<ace_suares> +1 for LDAp
<Ahmuck> i want a t-shirt like lns has
<LaserJock> somebody *has* to get this written up as a spec
<LaserJock> we keep rehashing
<Ahmuck> actually, this is how gramps filters out people.  apply a filter and find any people of a certain gender with the first name of Ahmuck
<ace_suares> man, the user interface of fedora is same old same old
<ace_suares> LaserJock: I am with you on the control panel -in the future :-)
<ace_suares> explain one day when you have time why 'users' have to be tied in to the system
<ace_suares> I think 'users' are soemthing that shoudl eb totally decouple from the OS
<LaserJock> permissions
<ace_suares> and strongly couple to some interface that tells all kinds of apps what to do
<LaserJock> that's what it comes down  it
<ace_suares> permissions is not a real problem in many use cases
<Ahmuck> u could catagorize users by age or grade
<ace_suares> like with email or proftpd
<Ahmuck> then you could select certain users
<LaserJock> ace_suares: sure it is, if you let anything do anything on your computer it become quite insecure
<ace_suares> I challenge you to prove that true :-)
<ace_suares> like proftpd depending on WHO logs in, it chooses WHAT is mounted as /home, etc
<LaserJock> ace_suares: ok, install an ssh server and create a user named "test" with the password "test" and leave it hooked up for a week :-)
<ace_suares> so it's the same user that writes to /home/ace as to  /home/laserjock
<ace_suares> except that ace can never see /home/laserjock trough the system
<LaserJock> I'm not saying it's the only way to do things
<ace_suares> LaserJock:  I am just saying
<LaserJock> but it's the way it's been done for 30+ years and I'm not sure we want to change that :-)
<ace_suares> LaserJock: damn
<ace_suares> LaserJock: that's wht the doctors said to the inventor of peniciline
<LaserJock> yeah, but you gotta choose your battles dude
<ace_suares> LaserJock: okay thanks
<ace_suares> over and out
<LaserJock> we're not very likely to revolutionize user at that level here
<LaserJock> we're just the lowly education people
<ace_suares> bye bye laserjock
<mhall119> what was ace wanting to do?
<LaserJock> get rid of users/groups as we know them
<LaserJock> so they aren't tied to the system
<mhall119> oh
<dgroos> My thinking about user/group management comes from running a Mac server for 4 years in my classroom lan.
<dgroos> Before inventing a new one, it would be useful to look at what they've got...
<LaserJock> well, Mac OS is essentially the same as Linux in that regard
<dgroos> LDAP connected with Users and Groups connected with Sabayon. and sharing but I guess that's mainly group membership, not 755 etc management.
<dgroos> Here's their page: http://www.apple.com/server/macosx/features/client-management.html
<dgroos> And sorry to leave this chat again, but have apt. to go to :(
<mhall119> what did he want to replace it with?
<dgroos> it's been fun :)
<LaserJock> mhall119: like something where /home would be mounted differently based on who logged in
<LaserJock> mhall119: I'm not really sure
<mhall119> /home or /home/user?
<LaserJock>  /home
<LaserJock> so there would be no /home/<user>
<mhall119> that makes no sense, what if you had 2 users logged in?
<mhall119> oh, I think I get it
<LaserJock> ummm, good question
<mhall119> still, makes no sense
<mhall119> what benefit did he see in that?
<mhall119> would each user have a different view of the filesystem?
<Ahmuck> k, backreading done
<Ahmuck> whew
<mhall119> that would be confusing
<Ahmuck> user management, machine management, app management, group managment (role managment), etc.
<LaserJock> mhall119: I believe he just wants users "decoupled" from the system
<LaserJock> I hope I didn't make him mad anyway
<LaserJock> seems to be difficult for me to do these days :-(
<mhall119> I'm not sure how you decouple users from a multi-user operating system
<mhall119> Ahmuck: how would decoupling users accomplish any of that?
<Ahmuck> decoupling users?
<mhall119> yeah
<Ahmuck> from the old unix way?
<mhall119> yeah
<Ahmuck> musta mis understood something i said
<Ahmuck> somewhere
<LaserJock> mhall119: I don't think Ahmuck was taking about ace's thing
<mhall119> oh, ok
<Ahmuck> anybody seen tuxmathscrabble?
<LaserJock> Ahmuck: I haven't, is it what it sounds like?
<Ahmuck> yep.  just saw it
<Ahmuck> i'm out.  neeeeeeed sleep
<ace_suares> night all. sleepy time.
<Ahmuck-Jr> it appears landscape is pay software?
<LaserJock> sure
<LaserJock> that's one way Canonical tries to pay for Ubuntu
<Ahmuck-Jr> # Every computer user should have the freedom to download, run, copy, distribute, study, share, change and improve their software for any purpose, without paying licensing fees.
<Ahmuck-Jr> http://www.ubuntu.com/community/ubuntustory/philosophy
<LaserJock> right
<Ahmuck-Jr> doesn't this violate their own policy?
<LaserJock> no
<LaserJock> that's Ubuntu's philosophy
<Ahmuck-Jr> ah, yes, tricky
<LaserJock> Canonical is selling an add-on service
<Ahmuck-Jr> my apologies
<LaserJock> no problem
<LaserJock> the relationship is not always very clear
<LaserJock> I believe the Landscape client and free/open source software
<LaserJock> and is installed in Ubuntu
<LaserJock> it's just the service that costs money
<Ahmuck-Jr> canonical owns edubuntu?
<LaserJock> hmmm, tricky question
<LaserJock> they own the trademark
<LaserJock> and they support it
<Ahmuck-Jr> they support it?
<LaserJock> 1) you can by commercial support for it from Canonical 2) they provide infrastructure used to develop it
<Ahmuck-Jr> k.  i noticed on an e-mail that came through about "vetting" and having to ask this boss and that boss
<LaserJock> but the "support" is somewhat limited in that they don't pay anybody to work on it, etc.
<LaserJock> oh, right
<Ahmuck-Jr> which caused me to wonder again, is edubuntu really free
<LaserJock> that was for the ubuntu.com website
<LaserJock> which Canonical has control of because they host it
<LaserJock> and the content that was on there was written by Canonical employees
<LaserJock> so it seemed right to ask them about it
<Ahmuck-Jr> ah, makes sense
<LaserJock> in fact some non-Canonical people work on the website
<Svenstaro> Yo
<Svenstaro> Do we have a DVD now?
<alkisg> Svenstaro: yup
<Svenstaro> Nice. But does it work and do stuff?
<alkisg> Sure. It's just the Ubuntu DVD version right now AFAIK :)
<Svenstaro> Oh alright.
<nubae> highvoltage, did u get a chance to talk to stgraber regarding lbagent?
<highvoltage> nubae: yes, he says it's an upstream bug
<highvoltage> nubae: I think it's best to ping him for a local fix
<nubae> well, tried mailing him with no response
<mhall119|work> morning
<Ahmuck> *yawn* ... good morning
<Ahmuck> i was reading about tuxsomething and sdl from an e-mail.  it suggested using alsa?  sdl-alsa?  not pulse audio
<mhall119|work> I'm not sure ALSA can send sound from the server to the clients
 * Ahmuck is going to try
<Ahmuck> hrm, yes, doesn't appear to work
<Ahmuck> it appears that people began having problems with sound at 9.04
<mhall119|work> yeah, something changed in SDL in 9.04 I think
<Ahmuck> pulseaudio iirc
<Ahmuck> k, i'm on alsa, and still having sound issues
<Ahmuck> going to ltsp
<Svenstaro> Yo LaserJock
<LaserJock> hi
<mhall119|work> http://bit.ly/Px0C7 Linked in question about Ubuntu and education
<LaserJock> mhall119|work: I can't view that, what is the question?
<mhall119|work> basically asking if Ubuntu is making an impact in educational settings
<mhall119|work> I guess you have to have a LinkedIn account to view it
<LaserJock> I do
<LaserJock> Lns: what are you writing a wiki page on?
<Lns> LaserJock: I'm writing a wiki page on UbuntuLTSP site
<Lns> re: SDL apps
<LaserJock> on all SDL apps or just tuxmath?
<LaserJock> or tux4kids
<LaserJock> Lns: ?
<Lns> LaserJock: i verified it fixes tuxpaint/math/type, and circuslinux so far
<Lns> at least on my own server
<Lns> (*buntu 8.04)
<LaserJock> Lns: and you just have to install libsdl1.2debian-pulseaudio ?
<Lns> yup
<Lns> that's it
<LaserJock> so what if rather than writing a work-around we push a fix?
<Lns> sounds better =)
<alkisg> Lns, is that also present in 9.04?
<Lns> no
<Lns> well, from what others have stated, they didn't experience the issues in 9.04
<alkisg> OK
<Lns> not sure about 8.10
<Lns> i have a VM so i can test it
 * alkisg will start sticking to LTS releases in 10.04, not before :)
<Lns> good idea =)
 * Lns will too, but probably after about 6 months of the release date of 10.04 ;)
<alkisg> Heh true
<Lns> I hate to do that...but i've done the chasing your tail thing before. Not fun!
<Lns> and i have VMs of the more current stuff to test
<LaserJock> well, you can just wait for the .1 point release
<Lns> true
<Lns> LaserJock: is .1 release on a scheduled basis as well?
<LaserJock> kinda
<LaserJock> I think they give a rough schedule when it's released
<LaserJock> a .1 is usually about a month or so after release I think
<LaserJock> 8.04 is up to .3
<Lns> wow that's sooner than i remember 8.04
<LaserJock> maybe it was 2 months, I don't remember
<LaserJock> there's a big SRU flood after release
<LaserJock> .1 catches most of them
<Lns> yeah
<Lns> i can at least do my own office when it comes out to help test
<LaserJock> it's unfortunate that we can't get more pre-release testing
<Lns> then push it out to some schools
<Lns> I'd be happy to if i could get some specific testing tasks
<LaserJock> LTSP stuff is particularly hard
<Lns> for sure
<LaserJock> it's very hard to rely on the general Ubuntu testers for it
<LaserJock> and there are so many different configurations
<Lns> I'm going to reboot into the Ibex and test this stuff. BBIAB
<ace_suares> Lns ping
<LaserJock> ace_suares: he's off testing
<ace_suares> LaserJock: cool isn't it, out first little success :-)
<LaserJock> which one?
<ace_suares> I like how lns directly mailed back to the mailinglist. Gives us all a good feeling. And even better he is making a wiki page.
<LaserJock> well, I was hoping he wouldn't need the wiki page
<LaserJock> I'm thinking what we might need to do is some "errata" on edubuntu.org to point to an edubuntu-updates PPA
<ace_suares> Very good idea. I read you are working on it already?
<LaserJock> not at the moment
<LaserJock> but I can add it to the todo list
<ace_suares> kk do I need to find out how to do the PPA thing or ask around on -devel if someone has the time?
<ace_suares> or you can post to the -devel list if you want.
<ace_suares> lets keep things moving
<LaserJock> I can upload the packages without too much of a problem
<ace_suares> ps how was you dissertatin defend? It's to morrow isnt' it ? good luck !!!!!!!
<LaserJock> tomorrow yes
<LaserJock> I'm finishing up my presentation, etc.
<LaserJock> I had hoped that we could get the fix into hardy-updates
<LaserJock> but libsdl1.2debian-pulseaudio is in Universe
<LaserJock> and so that won't work
<LaserJock> we keep running into that problem :(
<ace_suares> wow man dont get distracted too much :_) we have a solution now so after tomorrow you can make it work
<ace_suares> LaserJock: but we can work around it with PPA and that's good enough.
<ace_suares> even major RAID issues never made it to hardy-updates
<ace_suares> system toally unbootable and that didn't make it
<LaserJock> I'd like to get an edubuntu-updates PPA going anyway
<LaserJock> there is no reason why we should have to do all this via workaround documentation
<ace_suares> Good idea, if you need help, yell.
<LaserJock> if we have a fix, it needs to get to the user
<ace_suares> yeah the PPA is a good thought.. if you can do it, do it please
<LaserJock> hardware stuff like RAID is very tricky
<ace_suares> else let me look for someone to do it
<ace_suares> bye for now!
<LaserJock> stgraber: ping
<Ahmuck> would dropping back help me ?
<mhall119|work> so, the pulseaudio+sdl issue is fixed in Jaunty?
<LaserJock> mhall119|work: it was reported to not be an issue in Jaunty
<LaserJock> Lns is testing if it happened on Intrepid
<LaserJock> but I think so far it's only confirmed for Hardy
<mhall119|work> good to know, since I'm going to be setting up an LTSP lab using Jaunty and running all the tux4kids games
<alkisg> (10:07:50 Î¼Î¼) LaserJock: I'd like to get an edubuntu-updates PPA going anyway ==> /me also wishes for this!
<LaserJock> alkisg: what kinds of things would you want in it?
<alkisg> Updates, the scripts we were talking the other day, some packages not even in universe (e.g. scratch)...
<LaserJock> would you want just bug fixed for updates or newer versions of apps?
<alkisg> Well, if that wasn't too much trouble, newer versions for selected apps would also be welcome (after the required extensive testing, of course)
<LaserJock> well, let me rephrase a bit, of course people want newer stuff. What I'm wondering is if it'd be more important to have latest versions or bug fixes to existing versions
<alkisg> E.g. if flash 11 comes out and supports writing utf8 characters, that's a huge improvement, and I'd like that for my lts edubuntu version
<alkisg> But if ubuntu policy won't allow this to be part of an SRU, the ppa could save us there
<LaserJock> the "the required extensive testing" bit is difficult
<alkisg> Why? Many packages won't be edubuntu specific, so they can also be tested by the (bigger) ubuntu community
<alkisg> I'm not saying that we should do all the testing here
<LaserJock> well, because we won't get a whole lot of testing from people
<alkisg> But flash 11 was out in some ppa, and people tested it, and it worked fine, we could copy it to the edubuntu ppa after 1-2 months of testing...
<LaserJock> well
<LaserJock> but why would we put it in an edubuntu ppa
<LaserJock> the idea would be to not duplicate work
<alkisg> Because "some ppa" is not reliable, while "edubuntu ppa" is more reliable for a teacher
<LaserJock> hmm
<alkisg> People can try firefox 3.5 from whatever ppa they want; teachers only want tested stuff
<LaserJock> yeah, but that means we have to support it
<LaserJock> I'm not sure we're ready for something like flash or firefox
<LaserJock> well, I know we aren't
<LaserJock> but you make a decent point about having a single resource
<alkisg> Those were just examples; decisions could be made seperately for each case...
<alkisg> E.g. 'yes for scratch, yes for ltsp with ldm-not-hanging-at-logout patch after stgraber's approval, nope for flash'
<Svenstaro> How does Edubuntu relate to Debian Edu and KDE Edu?
<LaserJock> Svenstaro: to Debian Edu, we reuse their work in Debian but don't have any official relationship or anything
<LaserJock> KDE Edu we ship
<Svenstaro> I knew so much, I involved is Edubuntu in KDE Edu upstream for instance?
<LaserJock> not necessarily anything beyond the usual downstream < -- > upstream relationship
<Svenstaro> I=how
<LaserJock> Edubuntu is not involved in any upstreaming presently
<LaserJock> we can't keep Edubuntu going much let alone upstreaming
<LaserJock> we had some contact with asegio about setting up some "KDE in Education" type styff
<LaserJock> *stuff
<LaserJock> a mailing list, etc.
<Svenstaro> I see, better fix Edubuntu itself firtstly.
<LaserJock> and trying to funnel user feedback to KDE on how to make it more education-friendly
<Svenstaro> So then, is there anybody here who can give me a very quick rundown on Sabayon and its current state? I don't mean the bugs page in Launchpad, I mean an assessment of its actual current state.
<LaserJock> Svenstaro: more or less, yeah. We gotta take care of what we have first
<alkisg> sbalneav:  ^^^
<LaserJock> current state in Ubuntu or upstream?
<Svenstaro> Upstream of course
<Svenstaro> It's mainly developed by people in this channel anyway, isn't it?
<LaserJock> upstream is mostly done by a guy from Novell
<LaserJock> no
<LaserJock> it was started by Red Hat
<Ahmuck> LJ pulseaudio is an issue in jaunty
<Ahmuck> in fact there are a number of bugs out there
<Ahmuck> pulseaudio+sdl
<LaserJock> but that specific bug?
<Svenstaro> sbalneav, are you here
<Svenstaro> ?
<LaserJock> Svenstaro: I believe one of the Red Hat guys moved to Novell and the rest were taken off of Sabayon
<LaserJock> so it generally works in Fedora and openSUSE
<LaserJock> but as it's got environment-specific code it's a bit fragile
<LaserJock> it's been removed from Debian
<LaserJock> and doesn't work in Ubuntu as of yet
<Svenstaro> I might sound ignorant but I can't imagine that the basic functionality of Sabayon would be very hard to implement. Make temporary user folder as a copy, launch Xnest with user profile, make changes, restrict user access using gconf vars, done, merge back.
<LaserJock> it's a lot more than gconf
<LaserJock> and you have to know what things to ignore and what not too
<LaserJock> as Gnome changes underneath it, it gets broken
<LaserJock> so we've been working off-and-on for ~ 6 months trying to get it working again
<Ahmuck> ltsp sound
<Ahmuck> er.
<Ahmuck> anyhow, it's a problem.  i can't run any app with SDL in jaunty
<LaserJock> hmm
<LaserJock> Ahmuck: so what happens if you install libsdl1.2debian-pulseaudio ?
<Svenstaro> LaserJock, do you think keeping running after Sabayon would be worth the trouble?
<LaserJock> if we want session management, yeah
<Svenstaro> I was hinting at making a Edubuntu specific implementation
<LaserJock> well, that would be a huge task
<LaserJock> it just needs fixing up really, but that takes time
 * alkisg is still thinking that a task-based tool would be better suited.
<Svenstaro> I haven't had a look at its code base yet. I should probably do that but I'm tired. My guess is that it's Python and about 5k LOC?
<LaserJock> Svenstaro: yep
<LaserJock> it could be like 20 lines of code that are causing the problem, you know
<LaserJock> the first crasher I fixed was like 2 lines
<nubae> stgraber, ping
<nubae> greets LaserJock
<LaserJock> nubae: hi
<nubae> dont see u much anymore, cause I'm always online mornings till 3 europe time...
<nubae> got home net connection now though
<nubae> I've started coding a quiz like activity (educational) with an award based system, and using the telepathy framework for collaboration
<LaserJock> I've been really busy with school
<LaserJock> I'm defending my PhD in 24 hrs :-)
<nubae> was gonna do it for Sugar, but after looking into it, seems its relatively straight forward to do with gnome too
<LaserJock> cool
<nubae> wow,,, ok... well good luck
<nubae> so thats it then? then u get your phd?
<alkisg> Good luck LaserJock. Stay cool :)
<LaserJock> nubae: yep
<nubae> Got someone to take care of packaging sugar for ubuntu btw...
<LaserJock> awesome
<nubae> so for karmic we should have up to date packages, and since its kinda linked to source... ie, deb creation is being done on the fly... should remain updated too
<nubae> basically one of the sugar devs is taking care of it
<nubae> its not being done via Obs though, so don't worry ;-)
<LaserJock> heh
<nubae> for drawing windows, placing buttons, etc, is tkinter best to use in python?
<LaserJock> hmm
<LaserJock> how cross-platform and general does it need to be
<LaserJock> Qt is really good for cross-platform, Gtk is easy, and wxpython is pretty generic
<LaserJock> tkinter is sort of the fallback for most people I think
<nubae> well it should be a framework almost, but should run at least on gnome and sugar
<LaserJock> Gtk would be a logical choice I think
<nubae> ok, Qt seems to be problematic for telepathy though
<LaserJock> yeah, I'm guessing you'd already have the Gtk dependencies around
<LaserJock> so pygtk seems the most reasonable, and it's easy
<nubae> I'll take a look at gtk... what is wxpython?
<nubae> yeah
<LaserJock> it's a more generic widget set
<LaserJock> not desktop-specific
<nubae> and tkinter is gnome specific?
<LaserJock> kinda like tkinter, but better  and better looking
<nubae> ah ok
<LaserJock> no, tkinter is like old school generic
<nubae> heh, right ok... its what I've been following in most tutorials
<LaserJock> right
<LaserJock> because it's a part of python itself
<alkisg> nubae: have a look at glade also, you may design your gui graphically
<LaserJock> so people writing tutorials know that it's there and no dependencies have to be installed
<nubae> but I guess it'll be relatively straight forward to port stuff
<LaserJock> pygtk is easier than tkinter by a long shot, IMO
<nubae> gui graphically? how does that work?
<alkisg> http://glade.gnome.org/
<alkisg> nubae: run `locate .glade` in your ubuntu box and you'll see how much programs use it :)
<LaserJock> you build your UI using drag-n-drop
<nubae> oh wow, that sounds kinda neat
<LaserJock> it's pretty extensively used
<LaserJock> because then your UI is just a xml file
<LaserJock> so then you just hook up the widgets to the callbacks, etc.
<LaserJock> rather than manually doing the placement
<nubae> my gui is real simple though, its just a picture, with some round points corresponding to coordinates, and then on the bottom text boxes to be filled in
<LaserJock> yeah, you might start by just using plain pygtk
<nubae> u got any tutorials/reference links?
<LaserJock> if the UI bits start to get lengthy you could switch over to glade (I think it's called GtkBuilder these days)
<LaserJock> nubae: for pygtk?
<nubae> yeah
<LaserJock> I just use http://www.pygtk.org/pygtk2tutorial/index.html
<nubae> i'll bookmark that then
#edubuntu 2009-07-30
<ace_suares> Michelle_Qimo: hmm tries install Jaunty and later Qimo on a 64 MB laptop but didn't work
<ace_suares> process killed out of memory, dpklg reconfigure, and so on
<Ahmuck> back to SDL ... just tried out a SDL app directly on the server and the sound is skipping and causing all types of disorder
<ace_suares> Hi LaserJock
<LaserJock> hi
<ace_suares> nervous?
<LaserJock> oh, kinda
<ace_suares> you'll be good, I  am sure
<ace_suares> LaserJock: your blog speaks of new blood and reenrgizing on 2009/05/21, where did the new blood go and the energy !?
<LaserJock> ace_suares: well, *you're* here :-)
<ace_suares> he he but way after may 21
<ace_suares> and the council is just you, highvtge and graber... bu tin may it was still 5 ppl
<LaserJock> the first "new blood and re-energizing" thing was probably in 2008
<LaserJock> well, in May all but highvoltage and me were not involved with Edubuntu anymore
<ace_suares> So the edubuntu-dev team is just council + scorry
<ace_suares> sorry scotty
<LaserJock> well, it wasn't council
<ace_suares> no bu tnow
<LaserJock> it was available uploaders (myself and stgraber) and people who've contributed packages (highvoltage and sbalneav)
<ace_suares> ah okay so that has a function for uploading that's good.
<Ahmuck> ace_suares: new blood is in the mix.
<Michelle_Qimo> ace_suares: email Mike about the issue with qimo
<Ahmuck> i'm having problems with sound
<Michelle_Qimo> i'm not technically inclined
<Ahmuck> i'm not sure
<ace_suares> Michelle_Qimo: nah i'll check it out another day
<Michelle_Qimo> i'm sorry i'm no help!
<ace_suares> Ahmuck yeah well can't help you with sount
<Michelle_Qimo> he's mhall119, usually around here somewhere
<Ahmuck> what is the issue about qimo, i'll e-mailhim
<ace_suares> Michelle_Qimo: no problemeaux!
<ace_suares> Ahmuck doesnt install on 64MB
<Michelle_Qimo> 64MB of... what?
<Michelle_Qimo> sorry, that's dumb of me to ask
<Ahmuck> 64 mb of disk space, 64mb of memory?
<ace_suares> Michelle_Qimo: l'ace qui rit :-)
<Ahmuck> it's a valid question
<mhall1191> ace_suares: Qimo needs a bare minimum of 192MB to install
<mhall1191> sometime more, depending on the integrated graphics
<mhall1191> this is because I've only made a LiveCD version of Qimo, not anything inherent in Qimo itself
<mhall1191> still, 64MB might be a little slim
<ace_suares> mhall119hmm too bad I thought it would work on older computers. I have an IBM R61 laptop with 110 MB and I ripped out the HD and installed it on another system and then put it back and it worked. I am going to try that with Qimo too on the 32MB system see what it does. DSL runs perfectly on 32 MB
<mhall1191> ace_suares: it'll work on older computers, just not quite that old
<mhall1191> DSL is significantly lighter weight than Qimo
<mhall1191> we tried to find a balance between weight and ease of use
<ace_suares> mhall119 still too bad. The installer takes more mem then actually running it so installing it on a biggrer machine and then putting it back miught save even more old machines.
<mhall1191> because we hard to make it usable for non-technical adults too
<mhall1191> ace_suares: I'm working on a debian-installer CD image
<mhall1191> well, I take that back, I'm working on making DEB packages so that I can start working on a debian-installer based CD image
<mhall1191> so much to do, so little time
<mhall1191> right now, I'm running out in the rain to pickup some chinese takeout
<mhall1191> be back later
<ace_suares> kk
<Michelle_Qimo> ace_suares: we'll keep you posted on how qimo evolves.  we're still learning.  rather, he's still learning, and I'm running like a fat kid to keep up
 * Michelle_Qimo is a fat kid.
<LaserJock> it's a common problem with Live CDs
<LaserJock> that's one of the reasons Ubuntu has an Alternate CD
<Michelle_Qimo> an alternate cd is high on the priority list.  he's just to to figure out how to do it.  we're hoping to have something by the 15th for the build day
<LaserJock> ok, so I've created new PPAs
<ace_suares> Michelle_Qimo: cool wish him lots of luck! I'll follow developments. I just handed out my first Qimo computer to a neighbour in Curacao, Willemstad (look on google maps)
<ace_suares> LaserJock: cool! where?
<Michelle_Qimo> ace_suares: awesome!
<LaserJock> https://launchpad.net/~edubuntu-dev/+archive/edubuntu-testing
<LaserJock> and https://launchpad.net/~edubuntu-dev/+archive/edubuntu-updates
<Michelle_Qimo> ace_suares: post a blurb on growingupfree.org if you'd like to tell us about why you chose that neighbor, etc.
<ace_suares> they ar eempty yet but they fill up after some time ?
<LaserJock> well, I just made them :-)
<ace_suares> oh not uploaded yet. kk
<LaserJock> I'll upload the SDL fix
<ace_suares> So cool!
<LaserJock> as a test
<LaserJock> there is also https://launchpad.net/~edubuntu-dev/+archive/ppa
<LaserJock> which is a generic PPA
<LaserJock> we can add people to ~edubuntu-dev and then they can upload without needing Ubuntu upload permissions
<ace_suares> cool understood.
<Ahmuck> LaserJock: uploading a fix for SDL?
<LaserJock> that would be the idea
<LaserJock> though I'm not really sure what releases to upload for
<Ahmuck> 9.04 :)
<Ahmuck> i thought u were working on a disert
<LaserJock> well, I'm taking a slight break :-)
<dgroos> Hi All
<dgroos> I'm looking for instructions that will tell me where to install apps on the chroot.
<dgroos> I think I installed the CmapTools in the wrong folder.
<dgroos> I don't see the info on the ltsp.org site
<Ahmuck> http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/LtspDocumentationUpstream
<ace_suares> dgroos in what folder would it normally be installe d?
<Ahmuck> http://www.ltsp.org/~sbalneav/LTSPManual.html#chroot
<dgroos> Ahmuck: thanks I'm on their site looking at the section on LocalApps, will check the 2 links, esp. the latter.
<dgroos> ace_suares: I've never quite figured that out in Ubuntu.  in mac you put it in the Applications folder :)
<Ahmuck> apps are normally installed in /opt
<Ahmuck> some people use /usr/local
<Ahmuck> however, it doesn't sound like you chrooted
<ace_suares> dgroos but you installed cmap on your non-chroot, yes? You don't know where it went? try 'sudo updatedb' and then 'locate cmap'
<dgroos> ace_suares: I've got it installed in both the chroot and the regular root.  I'm actually searching for where I put it in the chroot now...  OK--cool looking command.
<dgroos> :) nice.  I installed it /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/
<dgroos> But really, I don't know how to launch it as a local app.  I tried launching it where I've got it in the regular file system but that didn't launch in localapp
<Ahmuck> in the thin client, open a term and enter the command to see if it's installed
<ace_suares> dgroos: installing an entire app in ..../etc/ is not a good idea.
<ace_suares> ..../etc is for configuration files.
<Ahmuck> re-booting
 * Ahmuck re-booting
<Ahmuck> dgroos: i was thinking the same thing
<ace_suares> dgroos: where did you install it in the non-chroot? And are you sure the 'binary' is called cmap? Do you have an icon on your server that was installed? If so, can you open the icon and look at the properties?
<dgroos> OK--I was thinking about seeing where the main firefox folder was and install there.
<dgroos> ace_suares: sure, I'll check
<ace_suares> dgroos: not a good idea. Look at this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filesystem_Hierarchy_Standard
<dgroos> according to that wikipedia page should be in /opt
<ace_suares> yeah but in the chroot it will be /opt/ltsp/i386/opt ;-)
<ace_suares> dgroos: is okaty
<ace_suares> dgroos: is okay the chroot has an entorire FHS
<ace_suares> entire
<dgroos> Yes--I'd figured that out, slowly... :)
<ace_suares> dgroos:  in a while you be a dev and a linux admin and btw if you look under the hood of the Mac, you'll see all familiar things !!!
<dgroos> it has been reassuring :)
<dgroos> OK here's where I put the other cmaptools on the file system: /usr/share/applications/
<dgroos> what do I want to look at in the properties now?
<dgroos> type? it says: shell script (application/x-shellscript)
<ace_suares> dgroos: probably it will also list the 'command' to start the program.
<dgroos> hmmm don't see that in any of the 'CmapTools Properties'
<ace_suares> dgroos: normally it says: Name, Description, Command, Comment, Type, Size, Location, Volume, Accessed, Modified
<ace_suares> if it's an icon to start a program on the desktop. Is it ?
<dgroos> How do I see that pane?  I clicked once on the launching icon, right-clicked and selected 'properties'--doesn't have all that.
<dgroos> Yes, I navigate to that file: IHMC_CmapTools/bin/cmaptools, then just double click on it. Never been able to start it in Terminal by typing its name.
<Ahmuck> dgroos: downloading now.  will check out
<dgroos> This was in sbalneav's wiki LTSPManual page: list of application names as they appear on their .desktop files.
<dgroos> Whoa--thanks, it's a cool program.
<dgroos> http://www.ltsp.org/~sbalneav/LTSPManual.html#chroot
<dgroos> what's a .desktop file?
<ace_suares> dgroos: never mind the .desktop file. You know how to navigate to it. this is in the non chroot.
<ace_suares> do 'locate cmaptools | grep bin '
<ace_suares> you should get one in /opt/ltsp
<dgroos> ace_suares: maybe I didn't explain it correctly.  On this page, http://www.ltsp.org/~sbalneav/LTSPManual.html#chroot search for LOCAL_APPS_MENU_ITEMS--I think it's important.  I'll do the grep thing.
<dgroos> Nice!  very efficient--I only got 2 listings:
<dgroos> /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/IHMC_CmapTools/bin/cmaptools.cfg
<dgroos> /usr/share/applications/CmapTools_stuff/bin/cmaptools.cfg
<dgroos> oops, didn't capitalize correctly in the grepping...
<dgroos> *dgroos will be back in 30 min...
<ace_suares> dgroos:  'locate cmaptools | grep -i bin '  (the -i makes it case insensitive)
<ace_suares> dgroos: oh nonsense, 'bin' is always normal letters, and locate doesnt mind about capitals. But you said:
<ace_suares> Yes, I navigate to that file: IHMC_CmapTools/bin/cmaptools, then just double click on it. Never been able to start it in Terminal by typing its name.
<ace_suares> so you must be able to navigate to cmaptool in the chroot too (I mean, DONT dot the chroot, just navigate and tell me on whihc one you would dbl clck.
<LaserJock> ok, https://launchpad.net/~edubuntu-dev/+archive/edubuntu-testing is open for business
<LaserJock> I wonder where Lns went
<dgroos> back--reading 'bionicles' to my son--it has more jargon in it than server management!
<dgroos> ace_suares: the capitalization I referred to was not bin/Bin but cmaptools (which brought 2 search items) and CmapTools (which brought 30 or so).
<dgroos> I would click on this file: /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/IHMC_CmapTools/bin/CmapTools
<ace_suares> dgroos: okay i thought that locate didn't mind case... anyway
<ace_suares> OKAY ! now we are getting somewhere.
<ace_suares> now in the thin client, run 'localapps /etc/IHMC_CmapTools/bin/CmapTools'
<dgroos> said: bash: localapps: command not found
<ace_suares> hm local-apps ?
<dgroos> Same result---Or should I run that in local console?
<ace_suares> hm you are on the thin client yes? try Alt-F2 and the the command.
<dgroos> yes I am.  Will do...
<dgroos> searched my blog--alkisg had walked me thought this--is: ltsp-localapps
<ace_suares> he he
<dgroos> And you do it on the regular terminal--and no luck, didn't give an error but didn't launch anything.
<dgroos> maybe it has to be installed on the same relative places in the chroot and regular file system?
<ace_suares> try open a terminal on the thin client and then type on the command line:
<ace_suares> /etc/IHMC_CmapTools/bin/CmapTools
<ace_suares> and yes, /etc is wrong place bu ttry this first...
<dgroos> Nice! getting somewhere... "No Java virtual machine could be found from your PATH environmental variable.  You must install a VM prior to running this program.
<dgroos> CmapTools installs it's own java stuff.
<dgroos> How tell CmapTools where to look for it's stuff.  Everything it needs is located in the IHMC_CmapTools directory...
<ace_suares> I really think you should remove the /etc/IHMC_CMAP directory from the chroot (not the etc!)
<ace_suares> you can do it like this from the non-chroot: 'sudo rm -f /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/IHMC_CmapTools' AT YOUR OWN RISK
<ace_suares> then install it (in the chroot) under /usr/share
<ace_suares> or /opt
<ace_suares> this will result in /opt/IHMC_CmapTools or /usr/share/IHMC_CmapTools
<ace_suares> (in fact of course /opt/ltsp/i386/opt/IHMC_CmapTools or /opt/ltsp/i386/usr/share/IHMC_CmapTools
<dgroos> There is an 'Uninstall' script in the IHMC_CmapTools folder--I'll use that, but I need to use the process that ogra walked me through...
<ace_suares> hmm
<ace_suares> If Cmap tools installs everything under the same directory, then the uninstall is not needed. It's not windows :-)
<dgroos> Right, this will take me a bit... As long as you don't hear a loud noise...
<ace_suares> lol
<dgroos> I wonder why it has an uninstal script, then?
<ace_suares> to automate the stuff for less savvy users. But do what you think is best.
<dgroos> I've tried repeating ogra's method a couple of time in different ways and can't repeat the success.  I've got another permutation to try...
<dgroos> success :)
<dgroos> I've recreated the instructions from the irc and the pastebin and my notes.  Much trial and error.  Got it in my blog :)
<dgroos> Now, back to the original question--where to install the IHMC_CmapTools folder for localapps?
<dgroos> ace_suares: In spite of the info on the wikipedia I'm going to just install it alongside the programs that are installed as localapps--firefox and openoffice.  ie in /opt/ltsp/i386/usr/lib.
<dgroos> seems strange, but that's where the others are...
<dgroos> worked like a charm--results, tomorrow!
<DawnLight> hello
<DawnLight> i'm having some errors with nbd/squashfs. anyone take a look please http://pastebin.com/f59984166 around line 380
<mhall119|work> morning
<Lns> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJ0I69Q5BpY
<ace_suares> lns are these SCHOOL busses running Edubuntu ?
<Lns> haha...maybe!
<ace_suares> mhall119 ping
<ace_suares> Michelle_Qimo: ping
<mhall1191> ace_suares: pong
#edubuntu 2009-07-31
<Michelle_Qimo> ace_suares: I'm here!
<Michelle_Qimo> what's up?
<ace_suares> hi Michelle_Qimo mhall119
<ace_suares> h ehe he
<ace_suares> I got Qimo 'running' on a 64 MB 500 Mhz Celeron laptop, a Comapq Pessarium :-)
<Michelle_Qimo> oh yeah?
<Michelle_Qimo> how'd you manage that one?
<DrLaserJock> \o/
<mhall1191> DrLaserJock: you got it?
<HedgeMage> hi, DrLaserJock :)
<DrLaserJock> mhall1191: yep
<mhall1191> congrats Dr.
<Michelle_Qimo> DrLaserJock: Congratulations!!
<ace_suares> W000t for Dr LaserJock!
<mhall1191> hey ace_suares
<ace_suares> hi mhall119 i know stuff about qimo that you don't know ;-))))
 * Michelle_Qimo is listening intently to ace_suares
<mhall1191> do tell
<ace_suares> heh he
<ace_suares> well first off, 'running' is a bit overstated. It's crawling so slow that the desktop takes 35 minutes to come up fully. But I got the eskimo and the icons down below and the Menu in the left corner... and I can spin the harddisk by moving the mouse.
<ace_suares> Of course it won't INSTALL on 64MB... but I fixed that by taking out the Harddisk, put it in a usb enclosure, boot up another PC with sufficient RAM and all that, installed on the USB harddisk... then put the harddisk back into the laptop. Oh it's a 5GB harddisk with now 128 MB swap and the rest is /
<ace_suares> So if the installer gets a bit more lean, I bet you could install it on computers with 64+32 MB ram and have them 'work'.
<ace_suares> I doubt if tuxpaint etc will work but hey it's fun to see. I'll make a photo :-)
<mhall1191> thanks
<mhall1191> I think 128M would be a good target
<mhall1191> we're not claiming to be a light-weight distro like DSL or Crunchbang, just a usably-light distro
<Michelle_Qimo> interesting.
<ace_suares> you could be a light-weight distro and then be really fast on 256 MB :-)
<ace_suares> I just started calculator and it took a minute but then I can move it around the screen and looks quite workable!
<ace_suares> Except the name Qimo... is that pronounced like 'chemo', the cancer therapy?
<mhall1191> no, like the kimo part of eskimo
<Michelle_Qimo> kim-oh
<ace_suares> email address for pictures?
<mhall1191> michael@qimo4kids.com or michelle@qimo4kids.com
<mhall1191> depending on which of us you like better :)
<ace_suares> well your names are almost the same so...
<ace_suares> have you got them ?
<Michelle_Qimo> not yet
<ace_suares> i sent them to michael
 * Michelle_Qimo leans over to look at his laptop
<ace_suares> tuxpaint is working, be it very slow
<Michelle_Qimo> very cool
<ace_suares> tuxpaint has sound too!
<ace_suares> isnt' that neet? on a 64MB laptop!
<Michelle_Qimo> awesome!  that's fantastic
<ace_suares> the puzzle in childsplay works at normal speed, with sound!
<ace_suares> got the pics yet?
 * Michelle_Qimo pokes mhall119
<Michelle_Qimo> yep, got 'em
<Michelle_Qimo> fantastic!  Good to know it's possible
<ace_suares> just played pong against the AI... well if pong wouldnt' work i'd start falling off my faith...
<ace_suares> well niow pong crashed.. he he
<ace_suares> gonna look on ebay to find a 128 MB module for this thing
<ace_suares> have fun u 2 !
<Michelle_Qimo> lol, keep us posted!
<ace_suares> will do
<mhall1191> can anyone here help me with PPAs?
<ace_suares> mhall119 going to bed soon but what's you q?
<ace_suares> off to sleep a while.
<mhall1191> ace_suares: nevermind, found someone in #launchpad to help me
<mhall1191> thanks though
<Ahmuck-Jr> ace_suares, i've got a 128mb module
<ace_suares> !logs
<ubottu> Official channel logs can be found at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ - For LoCo channels, http://logs.ubuntu-eu.org/freenode/
<LaserJock> morning everybody
<highvoltage> morning LaserJock
<highvoltage> LaserJock: LTSP Cluster is more or less in shape packaging wise. Any ideas for MOTU work that can be done for Edubuntu?
<LaserJock> highvoltage: there are a couple tasks maybe
<LaserJock> one would be trolling through the Edubuntu bugs looking for patches that can be uploaded or just packaging bugs that should be fairly easy
<LaserJock> another thing would be to get together a list of Universe packages we want to include and go over their bugs
<highvoltage> LaserJock: cool, I'll look at the bugs list so long
<Ahmuck> edubuntu uses nbd and fuse?
<mhall119|work> hello eduteam
<mhall119|work> wanted to share with you guys that I'm starting on Qimo packages: https://launchpad.net/~mhall119/+archive/ppa
<alkisg> Ahmuck: ltsp yes, but I don't think that edubuntu uses nbd...
<highvoltage> Ahmuck-Jr: ltsp does, yes
<highvoltage> (sorry only saw alkisg now)
<Ahmuck> firefox have a big memory hole?
<Ahmuck> 2+ G of memory and the server is telling me it's out of memory
<Lns> Ahmuck: how many clients on the 2G server?
<mhall1191> I think FF doesn't do so well running multiple instances
<mhall1191> unlike other apps, the majority of FF's memory usage can't be shared across instances, since it's cache and history and such
<mhall1191> you might try reducing the amount of page caching it does, limit the history, and reduce in-memory caches
<Lns> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/Firefox3Optimize
<Lns> Ahmuck: how did you determine it was firefox causing the memory probs?
<Ahmuck> dead reckoning
<Ahmuck> top is showing me 18% of mem being used by firefox.  server side only
<Ahmuck> Lns: i can't download anything at all, not even a 2mb file, shows i'm out of mem
<Ahmuck> nm, i found the bad process
<dgroos> Does iTALC on LTSP Jaunty auto detect computers?  I can't get it to do so.
<dgroos> I just installed iTALC in the client chroot of the jaunty LTSP install, following the directions on the ubuntu wiki.
<Lns> dgroos: unfortunately, i haven't heard of many people who have gotten italc to work very well w/ltsp..stgraber isn't around but he has done a lot of work with it, might be useful to ask him when he's around
<dgroos> I used it last year in class and it worked ok.   It is one of the critical apps for a lab situation.  I'll try asking again tomorrow--thanks!
<Lns> np!
<Lns> dgroos: out of curiosity, what do you use italc the most for (most commonly used functionality) ?
#edubuntu 2009-08-01
<dgroos> Well, 2 main tasks: noting who is on/off task, and when I need everyone's attention, locking up the desktop.
<dgroos> before I had a dataprojector in the room I would commonly share my desktop with other users.
<Lns> dgroos: so the remote/vnc is a big deal
<dgroos> Also, I used apple remote desktop for several years before entering Linux world.
<Lns> cool
<dgroos> yes
 * Lns hopes to get all of that functionality in tcm by the end of the next 2 weeks
<dgroos> I don't often use the chat because I'm usually wandering around the room, helping students.
<dgroos> Wow!
<Lns> that makes sense
<Lns> do you have clients in classrooms too?
<dgroos> What do you mean?
<Lns> err...sorry, do you use ltsp?
<Lns> oh heh
<Lns> nm
<Lns> =p
<dgroos> Yes, exclusively.
<dgroos> :)
<Lns> do you have ltsp clients in the classrooms too or just in a lab?
<dgroos> Let me find a picture...
<Lns> ooo, screenshots ;)
<dgroos> check out this folder: http://gcos.mpls.k12.mn.us/gcos/Members/mrg/folder-for-images/
<dgroos> the last 4 images show that I've got a lab in my classroom :)
<dgroos> though the computers aren't being used during this particular time.
<dgroos> fancy zoom is awesome, ay?
<Lns> dgroos: wow, nice looking tables!
<Lns> are those tablet PCs?
<dgroos> they are the thin clients... recycled p3's and p4's--check here for details (bottom of page) http://gcos.mpls.k12.mn.us/gcos
<Lns> That is awesome
<dgroos> Keeps me off the streets...
<Lns> you're doing a good thing there
<Lns> keep it up!
<dgroos> with your-all's help :)  Thanks
<Lns> haha..that's what makes a community
<LaserJock> dgroos: do students seem to like the monitors?
<LaserJock> I was wondering about glare
<dgroos> ahh... growing communities of scientists... grows edubuntu community, too :)
<LaserJock> I love seeing kids workin' with chemicals :-)
<dgroos> Glare isn't the issue has mainly to do with angle of view but that isn't to bad.
<LaserJock> how's the typing?
<dgroos> Ah... Dr LJ ;)
<LaserJock> I might be a tad biased
<LaserJock> I was just thinking about when I'm teaching labs
<dgroos> They pull the keyboard from under the glass and put it on their lap.
<LaserJock> and how it's difficult to have lab manuals and the experimental setup going
<LaserJock> in a setup like yours you can have the lab "manual" on screen
<dgroos> 1 person is the keyboarder, the other the mouser--using the mouse on the under-table.
<LaserJock> or what would be simply awesome would be to have sort of a guided multimedia tour through the experiment
<dgroos> Yes--the idea is to allow the new tools to recreate a new environment, one where there is a community of (novice) scientists building/creating (some might say discovering :) knowledge).
<LaserJock> instead of plain text recipes
<LaserJock> also would allow for more in-lab data analysis. right now we have the students just write down data and process it later because we don't have in-lab computers
<dgroos> I'm not to big on recipies--though they do need to learn basics.  Yes, I see the computer as a big help-resource, for example: https://public-wikimedia.mpls.k12.mn.us/groups/onlinelearningcontent/weblog/07958/Introduction_to_LabQuest.html
<dgroos> check out these labquests--they are incredible--allow students to setup their own data collection and see live graph--very powerful.
<dgroos> ok I've been informed that it's dinner time--I don't ignore that :)  Thanks for checking out my stuff and I'd love to talk about it more.
 * Lns waves to Edubuntuers
<dgroos> LaserJock: were you able to see that vodcast, BTW?
<dgroos> I have never been able to make it work on an ubuntu machine...
<ace_suares> hey dgroos!
<ace_suares> I just looked up on irclogs what I couldnt see since i was in a netsplit, obviously
<ace_suares> all your pictures and description
<ace_suares> REALLY great!
<dgroos> Howdy ace_suares!
<dgroos> and... you've been helping me succeed at it!  Thanks...
<ace_suares> wouldnt' mind if you added your story to https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/Stories with links to your photo and descrition pages!
<ace_suares> Amazing setup, especially the 'tablet' look on those ooooold pc's!
<dgroos> That is an excellent page.  When I started looking at Ubuntu/thin clients I found next to no useful stories--there are already 2 on that page (maybe more haven't looked for a couple days)
<dgroos> Check out my project blog--you too can build these table--look especially at the posts from last summer--just breeze through the picts.  http://groosd.blogspot.com
<ace_suares> Hey LaserJock rss feed on there.. now you gotta update more often, LJ! :-)
<dgroos> that's what I was thinking ;)
<ace_suares> amazing! buid day :-)
<ace_suares> re stories page
<ace_suares>  i posted the first one last week from a mail to the list
<ace_suares> with permission
<ace_suares> to my great surprise it was edited within a day or two and a second story showed up!
<ace_suares> I gotta subscribe to that page...
<dgroos> a community is given meaning by its stories... we need 'em.
<dgroos> I looked into gobby.
<dgroos> Looks like it would be a great tool to create programs.  I really like the way that it automatically highlighted each person's work with their own color.
<dgroos> It's pretty much only linear.
<dgroos> You can't make tables and doesn't wrap.
<dgroos> I want to know more about our edubuntu community.  I'm fine taking the page from google docs and putting it on the wiki.
<ace_suares> dgroos: that's a good thing!
<ace_suares> (you'll avoid a lot of flak too :-)
<ace_suares> Waht you ar edoing is really awesome I am sitting here with goosebumps.
<dgroos> OK, where should I put it?
<ace_suares> I was too surprised that there are so few stories with pictures..
<ace_suares> dgroos: the doc? Try /Edubuntu/WikiSite/Incoming/SomeName and then send that link to the list!
<dgroos> ace_suares: you're not sitting in a boat right now opening up bottles to read the notes within them, are you... ;)
<ace_suares> I am *planning* on using 'Incoming' to vet new contributions by the community
<ace_suares> he he
<dgroos> I'll put it there :)
<ace_suares> the bottle is open though :-) did you see the video on the site or somewhere on TV in east america?
<dgroos> Hmmm... I don't see much TV--it was on your site :)
<ace_suares> dgroos: read your mail :-)
<ace_suares> dgroos: that's okay. It was a very intersting experience. As you can see I am not an actor. But I vote for next f2f meeting on one of those beaches :-)
<dgroos> Thanks man.  You are very encouraging.
<dgroos> seconded...
<ace_suares> thx you can not estimate how good it does me to see those pictures of yours. My project failed. See www.suares.an/rkcs
<ace_suares> It's very nice to see successfull projects!
<ace_suares> dgroos: but please warn me if i am over-encouraging...!
<dgroos> :)
<dgroos> ace_suares: this is a very comprehensive page.  It's quite interesting to see the way you presented these 3 projects.
<dgroos> It seems like all were quite successful and the only problem comes if the project is dropped before kinks get ironed out.
<dgroos> I would need pages to write about the 'kinks' in my projects...
<dgroos> But, there are solutions to them all, thanks to edubuntu committee.
<ace_suares> well in fact the only kink was the director, who favourd MS and got all the sysadmins a week of all-inclusive hotel/sales in orlando FL... and they wen on local tv to say they where the first curacoa organisation to help (!) a multio-billion corporation to secure their computers... ehe hehehehe
<dgroos> you actually were very adroit on your page describing the issues--but reading between the line it was evident that money/politics was working to discount the success of the projects.
<dgroos> don't give up though... keep pushing.  the winds of politics will change and you'll be in the place, along with the majority of people, to get things going in a better, more sustainable way.
<ace_suares> hehe that's what I am still rooting for. I give Linux/LPI courses now and Open Office, if there's enough students.
<ace_suares> I've got appointmets pending with politicians, and I give lectures regularay
<ace_suares> I am still confident that Free Software is the thing. However, If I've had 426 thin clients placed and 58 servers, in 2005, I would be a big shot now, instead of becoming one 'later'. And the whole ltsp edubuntu thing would also have advanced, there was quite of big grant from the Dutch government (all together about 1 000 000 USD.
<ace_suares> I needed maybe 6-800.000 to setup the hardware, and the rest could go into software development (minus my own fee).
<ace_suares> We could then fan out over trinidad, and other caribbean islands, with a complete solution, and by now (2009) we would have won several awards... I guess they missed out on that in turn for a week all -in hotel in orlando.. cheap people...!
<ace_suares> now i need to do some ruby on rails, won't look often in this channel. David, YOU ROCK!
<mss> hello
<mss> I have a edubuntu 8.04 setup with HP5125 clients ...
<mss> After 4 clients,  the server does not respond to DHCP requests ...
<mss> Hello ... anyone around ?
<alkisg> Is that "4 clients" specific?
<alkisg> Or can it be e.g. 2 or 6 clients?
<mss> it can be 2 - 6
<alkisg> So, the clients don't PXE boot when that happens?
<alkisg> Or they do, but it hangs afterwards when ipconfig runs?
<mss> no ... just looking for IP addr via DHCP ...
<alkisg> Hmmm... upload your /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf to pastebin.com
<mss> well... the setup is in a remote location without internet access...
<alkisg> Ah. So your not onsite now, eh/
<mss> but I can get the data needed later in the day ..
<alkisg> ?
<mss> no reliable internet on site ...
<alkisg> How different is it from a standard edubuntu installation? Did you change anything in dhcpd, tftpd etc?
<mss> nothing changed ... standard config ....
<alkisg> Do you perhaps have another dhcp server running? E.g. in a router?
<mss> I saw some messages about crawling edubuntu / ltsp setups in mailing lists ...but no resolution ...
<mss> no ... simple setup with two NICS, one not used ( no internet), the secondary for thin clients ...
<alkisg> Did you assign an ip to the non-used NIC?
<mss> 10 clients connected thru netgear 10/00 switch -- could never boot up more than 5 at once
<mss> yes ....
<mss> Is that a problem ?
<alkisg> Is the IP on the same subnet as the first NIC?
<alkisg> E.g. 192.168.0.1 and 192.168.0.2 ?
<mss> It is 192.168.168.202
<mss> so diff subnet
<alkisg> OK so the dhcp server won't get mixed up as to which NIC it should use...
<mss> no...
<alkisg> I can't imagine what would go wrong while pxe booting that would cause this, except maybe a switch problem or a broken pxe bios
<mss> I saw in logs .... the DHCP server repeatedly offering IP address to clients , log after they have timed out .....looks like server is stuck in loop offering client addresses....
<alkisg> E.g. if you had modified dhcpd.conf and it didn't offer a boot filename, then the clients would continue requesting, and the server would continue offering, but you said that you didn't modify dhcpd.conf...
<mss> does not look like switch problem ... if I turn on only that client after booting system, one client will boot up at a time ..
<alkisg> Maybe the switch drops some broadcasted packets when there's a lot of traffic? I don't know, but I'd try another switch if it's available
<alkisg> OK when you get there, copy /etc/ltsp/dhcpc.conf and /etc/network/interfaces and /etc/default/dhcp3-server and `ifconfig -a`
<mss> sure .. will do that ...
<alkisg> ...and maybe try disabling the same nic, just in case (e.g. if you had netmask=255.255.0.0 it would get mixed up)
<alkisg> *the _second_ nic
<alkisg> Ah, and also get the client's NIC pci id
<alkisg> Finally, if the clients have another boot method (cd, hd, usb, floppy) you could try gpxe
<alkisg> http://www.etherboot.org => it may work or it may better tell you what's wrong
<mss> http://www.mail-archive.com/edubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com/msg04557.html
<mss> I saw several "system slow" messages like the above, but no clear reolution with hardy
<alkisg> He has an authentication problem, you have a dhcp problem... I don't see any similarities...?
<mss> http://www.mail-archive.com/edubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com/msg04986.html
<mss> this one ...
<mss> and this one
<mss> http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?thread_name=A1777BE3AA0AB44ABADA6FF66BA594ED6C358F0F61%40vkex.vindeln.se&forum_name=ltsp-discuss
<alkisg> If it's a dhcp3-server problem, then it would require network dumps to make an appropriate bug report so that upstream could fix it
<alkisg> ...and in this case, changing e.g. dhcp3-server with dnsmasq would make it work
 * alkisg gotta go, bbl...
<mss> thanks .....bye alkisg
<Ahmuck> well, it was fun while it lasted ...
<dgroos> Ahmuck: ?
<Ahmuck> power outage, blew up the server
<Ahmuck> not sure if it is the psu or the mobo, but something blew
<dgroos> sorry :(
<Ahmuck> not sure i'm going to put out the expense in fixing it.  the lab cost money to run, it was a community thing that i was doing as a good will thing
<mhall119> Ahmuck: where?
<dgroos> Ahmuck: do you have something online describing this service/project?  I always like to see what others are working on.
<Ahmuck> nope, not online.  i can take a photo of the lab if you want, a panoramic
<Ahmuck> and do a description.  i've been torn about keeping it open, or closing it down.  we had just made the decision to move it to a building that had a window to get more traffic
<Ahmuck> mhall119 where as in location?
<mhall119> Ahmuck: yeah
<Ahmuck> osborne, ks
<mhall119> are you a part of the -ks LoCo?
<Ahmuck> mhall119 i'm glad your here.  my clients are 800mhz with 256mb ram.  any chance qimo will run on those?
<Ahmuck> mhall119 yes
<mhall119> Ahmuck: Qimo will run fine
<Ahmuck> mhall119 sorta, i don't subscribe to the lists, don't participate in the web stuff, just the irc channel
<mhall119> Ahmuck: you might ask around in your LoCo to see if anyone has hardware you can use to fix the server
<Ahmuck> i sponser a regional LUG, and i promote ubuntu in the lug
<mhall119> another good place to ask
<Ahmuck> our LoCo is small, very small
<mhall119> I've gotten a lot of donations from the -fl LoCo
<Ahmuck> oddly, though there are a number of techs in the area, some in the ISP, business, etc. i'
<Ahmuck> ve never been able to attract anybody of that caliber for the lug
<dgroos> Ahmuck, cool.  I suppose you've pondered using ace_suares' project page?  Looking for it but can't find it--where again is this prototype edubuntu wiki?
<Ahmuck> the lug is mostly gui startups people
<mhall119> too bad
<Ahmuck> some converted to linux because they had no license keys, however those that have converted are so happy with xubutu that they refuse to change back to windows
<Ahmuck> LaserJock: needs to put the wiki in the title
<Ahmuck> sadly we operated our community magazine out of that lab.
<dgroos> So... Ahmuck, I would like to read about it, the project page is a good place, ay?
<Ahmuck> well, i've had mixed success.  8.10 was great, 9.04 has been a pain
<Ahmuck> it's also listed as private enterprise rather than 501c, though it might be considered not for profit.  originally the idea was to provide inet access, office space, etc. to people who needed to get away from the house or couldn't afford to purchase a computer and inet
<Ahmuck> in that aspect it's worked, unfortunately, not to the extent to pay the rent, utilities, so that's been coming out of pocket, plus the computer expenses, though most of that was from recycled hardware or donated hardware
<Ahmuck> i have a what some would consider a fault, a bleeding heart
<dgroos> Nice vision... tough to get something like this self-funded...
<dgroos> I'm guessing that's a genetic disposition associated with lots of open-source, present author included :)
<Ahmuck> *shrugs*, it comes out of my business income.  this means i was unable to buy a new camera this year, but *shrugs* i don't mind
<Ahmuck> it's provided jobs to kids in high school
<dgroos> Complex project... please consider writing this up.  Always the edubuntu-based projects are so much bigger than the technology though...
<dgroos> that isn't to underestimate the critical role of said tech.
<dgroos> hmmm... I'm repeating myself...
<Ahmuck> complex?  i just did it because it was a challenge ... :)
<Ahmuck> well, and i enjoyed it
<Ahmuck> while i'm thinking of it, i just realized that 'm going to need that computer for some info we've kept on the lab.  looks like i'm going to have swap a new mobo in it.  the drive is "raided" to prevent data loss, however switching boards will mean i have to re-install?
<Ahmuck> anybody know if 8.04.3 had good ltsp support, i may fall back
<ace_suares> if your drives are okay, they'll just work. Unless maybe i's hardware raid.
<mhall119> yeah, changing mobo alone won't require a re-install, Linux > Windows
<Ahmuck> mhall119 :)
<Ahmuck> so i was reading about linux software raid and md.  i understand if it finds a bad sector, it won't rebuild the raid.  /me wonders if this had been fixed
<Ahmuck> downloading qimo
<Ahmuck> mhall119 do you have a way to build an image for qimo? server side?
<mhall119> what do you mean?
<mhall119> for an LTSP?
 * mhall119 is a packaging machine!
<mhall119> okay, I need some guidance on customizing XFCE
<mhall119> customizing the default settings, to be used by new users
#edubuntu 2009-08-02
<Lns> mhall119, if you figure it out, it'd be nice to have a wiki page explaining that ;) Always wanted to mess around with XFCE
<mhall119> Lns: sure thing
<Lns> woohoo!
<Ahmuck> whew, not as bad as i had thought, tested with a used power supply, switched it out and the server works
<dgroos> Ahmuck: Great news!
#edubuntu 2010-08-02
<ball> hello redbaritone
<redbaritone> Hi there, ball. Know LTSP stuff?
<ball> redbaritone: Not yet.
<redbaritone> I'm having trouble after removing a package. Now, I can't even log into my account in gnome. (terminal login is okay.)
<redbaritone> It may not be LTSP related, but I removed a package which broke something.
<ball> Can you reinstall the package from the command line?
<ball> "sudo apt-get install {packagename}"?
<redbaritone> I'm not sure what I messed up. I did sudo apt-get remove wine*, and I think it must have removed something that I was using.
<redbaritone> Wine wasn't working out for me, so I ran the wine utility to remove itself, then removed the packages.
<redbaritone> Other than look at /var/log/syslog, I don't even know where to look.
 * ball shrugs
<emPrJoe> Anyone around yet thismorning?
<emPrJoe> I have an older computer that didn't quite make having a cd drive, is there a place they have edubuntu cds?
<emPrJoe> All I can find are DVDs
<alkisg> emPrJoe: you can either use the ubuntu cd, and then install edubuntu-desktop,
<alkisg> or use a usb stick,
<alkisg> or install from network, using another computer that boots with the edubuntu cd, if you have another pc available
<emPrJoe> yeah I have 2 pcs
<emPrJoe> so I would have to have edubuntu on the computer for it to work?
<alkisg> No
<alkisg> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LiveCDNetboot#line-75
<alkisg> You boot the first computer with the live dvd, and then run a script which shares it over the network,
<emPrJoe> so is that to install edubuntu or just ubuntu
<alkisg> so the other one installs from network
<alkisg> That's for any *buntu cd
<emPrJoe> so what do I need to do on my old computer
<alkisg> Does it support "boot from network"?
<emPrJoe> How can you tell?
<alkisg> If not, just download a floppy or cd from http://rom-o-matic.net/gpxe/gpxe-1.0.0/contrib/rom-o-matic/
<alkisg> That just gives a "boot from network" capability to the pc, you only need it once
<emPrJoe> ok
<emPrJoe> So I download that cd.
<emPrJoe> would it be possible to do it using a virtualbox?
<alkisg> Yes
<emPrJoe> ok
<emPrJoe> So mount the edubuntu dvd image
<emPrJoe> and boot from network usnig rom-o-madic
<emPrJoe> correct?
<alkisg> Mount edubuntu dvd an run the netboot script on pc-server, then boot from network using rom-o-matic on pc-client
<emPrJoe> ok.
<alkisg> Is that vbox on windows?
<emPrJoe> Yeah
<alkisg> I hope that it's allowed to access ports < 1024
<alkisg> (put it in bridged mode)
<emPrJoe> yeah
<alkisg> If you see any problems with the client not booting, just boot from the dvd live
<emPrJoe> it doesn't have a dvd drive though.
<alkisg> *the server, without vbox i mean
<alkisg> Ah, not even the "server"?
<emPrJoe> I do have a ubuntu cd if all else fails
<emPrJoe> oh
<emPrJoe> the server has a dvd drive
<alkisg> Right, instead of vbox, the "normal" way is to boot it with the edubuntu live dvd
<alkisg> Much easier and safer this way
<emPrJoe> one last question atm, what are the sys req of edubuntu
<alkisg> I think you can find them on the site (they're the same as ubuntu)
<emPrJoe> oh thanks
<alkisg> I guess 256+ RAM. How much ram does your client have?
<alkisg> (Probably 512+ recommented)
<emPrJoe> lol I need to upgrade it atm only 128 mb <_<
<emPrJoe> *put everyone in shock*'
<emPrJoe> thats why I was wondering if an old version would work
<emPrJoe> alkisg: how mch ram did 9.10 take
<alkisg> emPrJoe: with 128 you make a nice thin client
<emPrJoe> nice thin client?
<alkisg> I.e. you can make it work just fine but when your "server" is also powered on
<emPrJoe> so if I shut my "server" off its going to kill the computer?
<alkisg> (in other words you can tell the old pc to use the cpu of the new pc)
<alkisg> Yes
<emPrJoe> lol
<alkisg> It's handy in some cases, I don't know if it suits you
<emPrJoe> yeah me either
<emPrJoe> One last thing
<alkisg> E.g. in schools we have 12 old thin clients booting from 1 new server
<alkisg> With 128, try lubuntu
<emPrJoe> like 8.10 or 8.04 did they use anything like 128
<alkisg> Not really
<emPrJoe> I know dapperdrake did
<emPrJoe> so dapperdrake would be the last version that would run non thinclient
<alkisg> Even if you make them show a gnome session, you won't be able to open openoffice, firefox etc
<alkisg> Firefox needs about 512 MB for itself for a normal browsing experience
<emPrJoe> yeah
<emPrJoe> true
<Utrinqueparatus> Is there anyone actively developing new educational content for ubuntu?
<Utrinqueparatus> specifically preschool
#edubuntu 2010-08-03
<cooldude29> HI!!!!!!!!!!!!!! EVE#RYBODYZ!!!!!
<thorwil> hi! where can i find and SVG of the updated edubuntu logo?
<alkisg> highvoltage: I'm trying to upload fixed tuxpaint/tuxtype packages to lucid-proposed, is there a wiki page that describes that process?
<alkisg> highvoltage: I supposedly uploaded fixed packages to lucid-proposed for both tuxpaint and tuxtype, could you check if I did it ok? https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/lucid/+queue?queue_state=1&queue_text=tux
<highvoltage> alkisg this is the process you'd want to follow: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
<alkisg> highvoltage: yes, that's what I was trying to follow, I'm just not sure if I did it right
<alkisg> (being the first time etc)
<highvoltage> alkisg: I can look at it in an hour or so, in the middle of something else but I'll have some time later
<alkisg> Sure, no hurry. Thanks!
<highvoltage> alkisg: ok good :)
<stefandebacker> how does the client know if he is thin or fat?
<highvoltage> stefandebacker: probably by his initramfs image? :)
<stefandebacker> thanks I already got the answer in #ltsp
<alkisg> highvoltage: did you get a chance to look at tuxpaint/tuxtype? Would anything more be needed?
<alkisg> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/lucid/+queue?queue_state=1&queue_text=tux
<alkisg> !info tuxpaint-data maverick
<ubottu> tuxpaint-data (source: tuxpaint): Data files for Tux Paint, a paint program for children. In component universe, is optional. Version 1:0.9.21-1ubuntu1 (maverick), package size 2683 kB, installed size 6552 kB
<alkisg> !info tuxtype-data maverick
<ubottu> tuxtype-data (source: tuxtype): Data files for the Educational Typing Tutor Game Starring Tux. In component universe, is optional. Version 1.8.1-4 (maverick), package size 9622 kB, installed size 13716 kB
<alkisg> OK, both of them were accepted in lucid-proposed, only testing + reporting remains
<highvoltage> alkisg: hey!
<alkisg> Hey highvoltage, everything ok with tux*
<highvoltage> yes I just saw Riddel's mail about that. I guess all that's left is to test it
<highvoltage> alkisg: I haven't had a chance to look yet, but it you install it and it works fine it should be ok. I can test it a bit later from -proposed
<alkisg> Someone in #ubuntu-devel was suddened to hear that edubuntu-council members are also indirectly ubuntu-developers, though, and I'm wondering if he was right...
<alkisg> I.e. maybe we should keep edubuntu-developers separated from edubuntu-council?
<alkisg> (in other words, if a teacher with no development experience offers a lot to edubuntu and joins edubuntu-council, why would he be a developer too?)
<highvoltage> alkisg: yep, it is kind of weird
<highvoltage> alkisg: "suddenned"? did you mean "saddened"?
 * alkisg looks it up in the dict...
<alkisg> No, I meant from the verb "sudden"
<alkisg> I.e. unexpected
<alkisg> (erm, noun - whatever :))
 * alkisg has never had proper english lessons, it's a miracle that he was able to get the michigan proficiency :))
<highvoltage> heh :)
#edubuntu 2010-08-04
<alkisg> !info udhcp maverick
<ubottu> Package udhcp does not exist in maverick
<alkisg> !info udhcpc maverick
<ubottu> udhcpc (source: busybox): Provides the busybox DHCP client implementation. In component main, is optional. Version 1:1.15.3-1ubuntu1 (maverick), package size 15 kB, installed size 64 kB
<gnoob> Hi guys:) Is edulinux and edubuntu basicly the same thing? Or is edulinux redhat'ish and not ubuntu based?  Or you know if edulinux is existing at all?
<highvoltage> gnoob: hey! I work for the company that used to maintain edulinux
<highvoltage> gnoob: and I'm currently and edubuntu contributor
<highvoltage> edulinux doesn't really exist anymore and the contributors got absorbed into edubuntu, although personally I wasn't involved with edulinux at that time
<alkisg> highvoltage: will there be a meeting tonight?
<highvoltage> alkisg: yep
<alkisg> Ty
 * highvoltage checks calendar to not be confused by time-zone differences again
<coz_> hey guys... I have edubuntu / lucid on one machine and downloaded the edubuntu maverick dvd...I tried several ways to mount the dvd iso to do an upgrade with no success... am I missing something?
<gnoob> highvoltage  OK, thanks:)   Im planning to toss out windows from a computerlab and want a linux terminalserver solution. Is edubuntu easy to set up and maintain?  I see that edulinux had a nice http interface for configuring server and for blocking sites and stuff,  this is very interesting, do edubuntu got this posibility too?
<highvoltage> gnoob: not really, but there are other alternatives
<highvoltage> gnoob: I'm wondering if we could get something like http://www.tectonic.co.za/2010/06/gnome-nanny/ into the archives in time for maverick, it seems quite handy
<gnoob> cool :) gnome nanny looks nice
<gnoob> Anyone knows whats the best way to run cad software on edubuntu clients?  Is it as easy as this?? : chroot /somewhere/clientOS/ ; aptitude install qcad (or freecad or whatever?)?
<alkisg> gnoob: chroot? are you using ltsp?
<alkisg> With ltsp, you just install qcad on the server normally, from synaptic
<gnoob> no,  but read about ltsp.. thought it was basicly the same thing..
<gnoob> ok so ltsp and edubuntu have completely different ways of managing client OS's  (no wonder why I got confused :P)
<alkisg> gnoob: erm, no
<alkisg> There's no "client os" concent in edubuntu
<alkisg> There's no client/server concept in edubuntu
<alkisg> You can use LTSP on edubuntu of course
<alkisg> But edubuntu by itself doesn't have a chroot or anything like that. When we need a client/server model, we use LTSP on edubuntu for that.
<gnoob> Edubuntu used as a server needs LTSP to serve thin clients then?
<alkisg> Erm, yes, it includes ltsp
<alkisg> (when checked during the installation)
<gnoob> thanks for clearing things up alkisg :)
<alkisg> gnoob: no problem. For ltsp questions, you can ask either here or in #ltsp
<gnoob> For installing a linux terminal server with edubuntu what iso should I install from?  ubuntu-alternate?  My dream would be something installed on a debian server with no X, and a web interface for the simple configuring. (and a good howto for a vanilla install) :)
<alkisg> You can install debian/ltsp, but X and gnome will be required to be installed on the server, to show a GUI on the clients
<alkisg> Because the clients get the server's desktop environment
<alkisg> You can install either with the edubuntu dvd (contains ltsp) or with the ubuntu alternate cd (press F4 during boot) or even with the ubuntu desktop cd (install ltsp afterwards) or with debian, whatever you like.
<gnoob> ok :)   I will defenitely go for edubuntu then
<gnoob> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/LTSPQuickInstall     I will try to follow this howto. Looks extremely easy! I hope its as easy as it looks :)
<gnoob> Thanks for great help alkisg and highvoltage:)  Going to start setting up a test server soon
<dgroos> Howdy All
<dgroos> Meeting later?
<dgroos> ... in about 2.5 hours?
<highvoltage> dgroos: yep!
<gnoob> sudo ltsp-build-client     Can someone help a little on this command. Does it take the server installation and make the client from that?  So if I install qcad e.g,  then Ill have to build client afterward?
<highvoltage> gnoob: the client only contains enough data to make a system that makes the thin client boot up
<highvoltage> gnoob: you just need to have qcad installed on your server and the thin client will run it from there
<gnoob> ohh ok :D
<highvoltage> it builds the thin client environment using ubuntu packages, so you'll just need an internet connection
<gnoob> a lot easier than I thought
<Lns> Did I miss the meeting? :/
<highvoltage> Lns: it's in 30 mins
<Lns> highvoltage: cool thanks :)
<highvoltage> alkisg, dgroos, dinda, Lns, mhall119, ogra, stgraber: edubuntu meeting in #ubuntu-meeting inabout 8 minutes!
<alkisg> Ty :)
<mhall119> ok
<mhall119> I'll be in and out
<dgroos> Thanks highvoltage for making this meeting happen.  Like you, I'd like to see more teachers voices, here.  Seems like there has recently been a lull in edubuntu noise.  Excepting alkisg's multitudes of posts yesterday!
<alkisg> dgroos: heh sorry those are generated automatically from launchpad
<highvoltage> hehe :)
<alkisg> I didn't mail anything :)
<dgroos> go for it, then!
<highvoltage> I have a bunch of alkisg's posts marked as unread that I've read but still want to respond to :)
<highvoltage> dgroos: oh, I mean, your mails, actually :)
<highvoltage> dgroos: especially your documentation ideas
<highvoltage> (sorry that I thought that was alkisg :))
<dgroos> I'm honored!
 * highvoltage goes back to -meeting for a bit to finish taking notes
<dgroos> If we had a central area that isn't overly large to organize a concise set of essential how-to's along with a set of less-essential but still important how-tos, that would be widely useful, I'd say.
<dgroos> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/EdubuntuDocumentation/EdubuntuCookbook/BasicSetup
<uros1> highvoltage, please i can`t login in this site http://learn.ufbt.net/user/policy.php
<highvoltage> uros1: ah, I had some problems earlier as well
<uros1> ok next time
<highvoltage> it seems to fail when you register, but it sends you an e-mail with a link that works when you click on it
<highvoltage> it will then give you a page to update your details, then you just have to click on submit and you should be logged in then
<uros1> ok
<Darkfull> help http://www.4security.com.br/2010/08/04/um-servidor-perfeito-debian-lenny-ispconfig-2/
<Darkfull> ou http://www.4security.com.br/tube/2010/07/31/realvnc-v4-bypass-authentication-exploit/
#edubuntu 2010-08-05
<gnoob> Can users screw up their UI by removing bars and menus in gnome on edubuntu?
<gnoob> from thinclients?
<alkisg> gnoob: sure they can. You can either lock them down, or reset them by: gconftool-2 --recursive-unset /apps/panel && killall gnome-panel
<gnoob> Thanks a lot alkisg,  that will be of help i think :)
<gnoob> Installing ltsp server now,  but got a red screen telling me that Build LTSP chroot failed..  Can I go on with the install and fix it later?
<gnoob> looks like that error is pretty common.. http://tillamookrage.blogspot.com/2007/09/build-chroot-fails-during-ltsp-server.html    This is how to fix it appearantly..
<alkisg> You can continue with the installation and then run ltsp-build-client from the start
<alkisg> What was the failure message?
<gnoob> hmm dont remeber any failure message.   Just that Build LTSP chroot failed   (was during install with a red background)  I tried to install system over again but got same message.  This time I continued install and got system booted up now :)
<gnoob> Did as the page told me to do.. rm -R /opt/ltsp && ltsp-build-client --arch i386      and looks like its working well :)
<gnoob> I have just one more problem for today I think :p    The testserver that I used for the install had only one wired NIC.  I have a wireless one too, but the installation could not make use of the wireless card for the install.. So I needed to switch.. The NIC I want for thin-clients I used for internet during install and now I want to use them the other way around
<gnoob> Is there a easy way to do that?
<gnoob> where do I tell LTSP to use what nic? :)
<ltsp-q> Are there any LTSP guru's around?
<ltsp-q> I'm looking for an example exports file since mine seemed to have been mangled on upgrade to 10.04
<crom> hi all,,,,,i need DUND....anyone knows where to get it?
<crom> hi all,,,,,i need DUND....anyone knows where to get it?
<alkisg> For generic ubuntu questions, try #ubuntu
<crom> thanks but with thousend people aking how to install.....no one answers.....any other suggestion?
<alkisg> Try the mailing list or the man pages, e.g. http://linux.die.net/man/1/dund
<crom> I know them...my problem is not with usage.....i need to get it, has not been included on the last release
<alkisg> $ dund
<alkisg> The program 'dund' is currently not installed.  You can install it by typing:
<alkisg> sudo apt-get install bluez-compat
<alkisg> The system is giving you instructions ^^^
<alkisg> But really, this isn't the place to get support for bluetooth.. try the mailing lists or something
<crom> thanks m8..solved.....i test many things....thanks 4 ur time
<alkisg> 04 m4t3 n0 pr0bl3m :)
<alkisg> crom: for a perl app, I believe you should ask in #perl or something
<crom> thanks
<crom> 4v3 415k1g
<alkisg> :D
#edubuntu 2010-08-06
<Mand0USMC> hello
#edubuntu 2010-08-08
<gnoob> guys,  how to remove startupsounds in edubuntu/ubuntu?
<coz_> hey guys... using  sudo update-manager -d  updates to maverick but  of course some things dont update to edubuntu....any way to update to edubuntu  maverick?
<coz_> hey guys  ... i notice on edubuntu for certainl applications that knotify4  starts ...esample  kreversi
<coz_> when I disable the knotify4  in /usr/bin   it works fine but of course some kde apps require it like  digikam
<alkisg> coz_: hi - I don't know about knotify4, but do stay at least 10-15 minutes when you ask a question :)
<alkisg> Most people don't constantly monitor the channel, they just look once in a while
<coz_> alkisg,  yeah sorry  that was an accident... i use easystroke  and for some reason when I have a gnome and a kde application opened at the same time.. and I use easy stroke to want to close the kde application it closes the unfocused gnome app instead...in this case  xchat
<coz_> alkisg,  I have not found the reason for this  although having focus on mouse cursor set in compiz sort of solves the issue
<coz_> alkisg,  I am leaning towards it beinf kde issue since the same thing occurs on a kde system
<coz_> i will however speak with the developer about this
<alkisg> coz_: I'm not sure I understoond your problem, but have a look at this: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/metacity/+bug/494096
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 494096 in metacity (Ubuntu) "Clicking the title of a window is bringing a window underneath it into focus" [Low,Triaged]
<coz_> alkisg,  not quite the same issue... easystroke is a gesture recognition application... it opens...closes...runs.. runs compiz etc...anything done with the mouse  and keyboard shortcuts are done with strokes
<alkisg> ah, ok
<coz_> alkisg,  however ... if both kde and gnome applications are opened at the same time...the  close stroke will always close the gnome application evenif kde app is focused
<alkisg> Maybe some bug with qt then - no idea.
<coz_> alkisg,   thats possible  and I have to speak with easystroke developer about this..perhaps he can patch a workaround for it :)
<coz_> alkisg,  although I have used edubuntu in the past... I have just recently permanently siwtched to it
<coz_> so this issue will have to be resolved or at least identified at some point   but thanks for the help on it :)
<alkisg> Updating edubuntu to maverick should just work, though
<coz_> alkisg,  yeah but little things like plymouth theme change to the ubuntu plymouth theme and I really prefer the edubuntu one :)  much more refined looking after nvidia drivers are installed :)
<alkisg> Some update-alternatives command should fix that
<coz_> alkisg,  i will look into it ...thanks...  I also probably will wait until the ubuntu minimal install is avialable for maverick since I also prefer that method of installation :)
#edubuntu 2011-08-01
<Damianos> Have you guys ever had to deal with difficult IT guys in school districts?
#edubuntu 2011-08-02
<frank_> hi
<Damianos> I was trying to get a dual screen thing going on the teacher's computer and it hosed italc. I updated keys but clients are not showing up in italc master (even if I manually put the station on the list by ip address)
<frank_> i was trying to install inssider but i got this error    :   Error: Dependency is not satisfiable: libgtk2.0-cil (>= 2.12.10)
<frank_> any idea hoe to fix it ?
<Damianos>  
<Damianos> how do I safely uninstall and reinstall italc?
<Damianos> anybody have any idea how to set keys properly with italc and ltsp? I've gone through every walk through and done the ica commands and it still won't work. I try the launcher command and it throws an error saying that keys are not installed correctly
<Damianos> Could somebody help me configure italc? I tried to launch it from terminal but it says that keys are not correctly installed
#edubuntu 2011-08-03
<johnkershaw> hi - I'm very new :/  anyone able to help me with my first LTSP install? my clients won't boot :/
<johnkershaw> I get this far:
<johnkershaw> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1875978/Edubuntu_NetBoot_640.jpg
<johnkershaw> (if I'm in the wrong place to ask, please redirect me :)
<johnkershaw> hello?
<johnkershaw> :)
<johnkershaw> hi
<highvoltage> hi johnkershaw
<highvoltage> johnkershaw: which version of Edubuntu is taht?
<johnkershaw> hi
<johnkershaw> 11.04
<johnkershaw> fresh and shiny
<johnkershaw> all my clients are getting an IP address from the box, so the connectivity is okay
<johnkershaw> but then:
<johnkershaw> Error: failed to connect to NBD server 192.168.0.254:2000
<highvoltage> I can't remember if it's in /etc/inetd.conf or /var/lib/tftpboot/pxelinux.cfg/default
<highvoltage> oh probably inetd.conf, but I've come across it making it port 2001 the default port to listen on
<johnkershaw> if it helps, I'm not getting any internet connectivity either
<johnkershaw> the network is fine (I'M on it now!)
<johnkershaw> and the machine could definitely see the internet when it was installing 11.04, cos it was doing updates and stuff
<johnkershaw> but now that it's finished installing, it's gone all sulky and won't connect
<johnkershaw> related?
<highvoltage> I think when you installed ltsp from edubuntu you probably chose the ethernet port that you're currently using for the rest of the network
<highvoltage> the edubuntu installer assumed you're using two network cards, one for ltsp and one for getting internet and access to the rest of your network
<johnkershaw> can I undo that? there are two ethernet ports on the back of the machine, but the built-in one was taped over, so I'm guessing I should ignore it
<highvoltage> I can't say why it was taped over :)
<highvoltage> you can edit the /etc/network/interfaces file
<johnkershaw> my prior/existing setup is a mac os 10.4 server which has happily run our 17 macbooks and various staff laptops for 3 years
<johnkershaw> it's dhcp server was clashing with the one on ltsp, so I've turned off the mac's service
<highvoltage> ah
<johnkershaw> my macbookpro has picked up an ip from the ltsp, so that side of things is working
<highvoltage> ok, so in that interfaces file you'll have something like "auto eth0, iface eth0 inet static, address 192.168.0.254...", you probably want to change that to "autho eth0, iface eth0 inet dhcp" and remove the address and netmask lines directly below it
<johnkershaw> 2 secs - I'll relocate this machine so I can see the ltsp's screen
<highvoltage> then you could also add another section so that ltsp works on the same card, I've pasted an example on http://paste.ubuntu.com/658293/
<highvoltage> (that's assuming that network card is on eth0, you can type 'ifconfig' to check current settings)
<johnkershaw_> back
<johnkershaw_> right - pico /etc/network/interfaces (there's no gui for this, right?)
<highvoltage> from the gui you could press alt+f2, it will give you a run dialog. then you can type "gedit /etc/network/interfaces" to do it in a gui text editor
<johnkershaw_> right - I have the file open
<johnkershaw_> got auto eth0
<johnkershaw_> so I change 'static' to 'dhcp', after 'inet' - yes?
<highvoltage> yes
<highvoltage> that will fix your internet connection on that machine after you reboot
<highvoltage> (see the example I pasted too)
<johnkershaw_> permission denied :(
<highvoltage> whoops, I left something out in the run command
<highvoltage> when you run it from the run dialog you have to type "gksudo gedit /etc/network/interfaces"
<highvoltage> not 100% sure if it's gksudo or gksu in 11.04 but if you get the text editor then it worked :)
<johnkershaw_> changed, saved
<johnkershaw_> do I need to force a refresh somehow?
<johnkershaw_> or just reboot?
<highvoltage> did you remove the address and netmask lines below it too? or did you add the auto eth0:1 part so long?
<highvoltage> for the changes to apply, you can type the following in a terminal:
<johnkershaw_> it now reads:
<johnkershaw_> auto lo
<highvoltage> sudo /etc/init.d/networking restart
<johnkershaw_> iface lo inet loopback
<highvoltage> (or you can reboot)
<johnkershaw_> auto eth0
<johnkershaw_> iface eth0 inet dhcp
<johnkershaw_>   address 192.168.0.254
<johnkershaw_>   netmask 255.255.255.0
<johnkershaw_> [[END]]
<highvoltage> you have to remove the lines that say "address" and "netmask" below the one that has dhcp in it
<johnkershaw_> kk
<johnkershaw_> done
<highvoltage> ok, no you can do:
<highvoltage> sudo /etc/init.d/networking restart
<highvoltage> and you should have internet
<johnkershaw_> deprecated, but okay :)
<highvoltage> yeah you can ignore that :)
<johnkershaw_> yay!
<johnkershaw_> you beauty!
<johnkershaw_> will that have fixed the client issue?
<highvoltage> now, if you look at that example I pasted, it shows the other lines that you need to get LTSP back
<highvoltage> after you've added that, I guess the easiest thing to do is to reboot the machine
<johnkershaw_> I never got the example - must've been when I was moving between ethernet ports
<highvoltage> (I'm leaving the office and going home now so I'll be back a little later)
<johnkershaw_> could you repaste the example please?
<highvoltage> http://paste.ubuntu.com/658293/
<johnkershaw_> (it's half-midnight here!)
<johnkershaw_> right, I'll put that in too
<highvoltage> ouch :)
<johnkershaw_> yeah - been here since 7pm
<johnkershaw_> right, typed, will reboot
<johnkershaw_> thanks :)
<johnkershaw_> anyone else out there?
<johnkershaw_> hi
<highvoltage> johnkershaw_: just ask
<highvoltage> (I'm back btw)
<johnkershaw> anyone help with a freshly installed 11.04 ltsp that won't netboot clients?
<johnkershaw> hi
<johnkershaw> edubuntu help?
#edubuntu 2011-08-04
<johnkershaw> hi
#edubuntu 2011-08-06
<Guest31952> exit
#edubuntu 2011-08-07
<jottbe05> Hi
<jottbe05> Could anybody help me with my soundproblem? I get no sound at all but I am sure it is no hardware problem. I guess it is related to pulse
<jottbe05> sorry I had a problem...   Regarding my sound problems. Sound jused to work zwo weeks ago and the strange thing is that the system sound which is played when the login window of genome occurs after booting (drums) is played, but after I log in everything is silent
<jottbe05> Hi Alki
<jottbe05> btw. I already checked the mixer settings
<alkisg> Hello
#edubuntu 2012-07-30
<Smis> .
#edubuntu 2012-08-01
<px12> hey guys.. this text has all the clues available to me. could you help me find the answer to this riddle? "<h3>The Honey Bee Stings</h3><div class="formcontainer"><center>An unpronounceable euphemism of "you just got owned". </center><!-- Rub my back as you watch over my shoulders. -->"
#edubuntu 2012-08-02
<jocarter> stgraber: I guess you're probably very busy but if you have a moment, maybe you could tell me...
<jocarter> stgraber: for the edubuntu-artwork update, what should I do with the version number? and should the release say precise-proposed or precise-updates?
<stgraber> jocarter: precise-proposed, needs to close one bug that has the [rational], [test case] and [regression potential] sections in the bug description, version number needs to be lower than quantal, I'd go with 12.04.2
<jocarter> ok, I just filed LP: #1032256 for that
<jocarter> (ah I need to add a [rationale] part)
<stgraber> jocarter: LTSP SRU uploaded to precise-proposed too
<jocarter> stgraber: cool
#edubuntu 2012-08-05
<thafreak> Can anyone tell me where lts.conf is supposed to be?
<thafreak> My tftp server is different host than my ltsp server
<thafreak> I tried putting it in tftp root dir, and in the same dir as ltsp/i386 on tftp, but no luck
#edubuntu 2013-07-29
<paul_> I am still looking for a contact re: getting Edubuntu WebLive back online, website contact yet unanswered.  Anyone know how to make contact?
#edubuntu 2013-08-01
<lanoxx_> highvoltage, are you around
<highvoltage> lanoxx_: yep!
<highvoltage> lanoxx_: I *just* replied to your email
<lanoxx_> highvoltage, haha thats fast :)
<highvoltage> lanoxx_: yeah a bit of a coincidence that you pinged me at the same time hehe
<highvoltage> lanoxx_: so, in a nutshell, I'm going to try on debian unstable on saturday.
<lanoxx_> i have been thinking to try debian as well, it seems that on ubuntu for some reason building gnome stuff is extremely difficult
<highvoltage> I don't know, I think those jhbuild dependencies might be wrong
<lanoxx_> highvoltage, everytime i try to build something it litterally takes hours or days to setup everything such that there are no errors
<lanoxx_> highvoltage, yes, possibly, but i dont know enough about jhbuild to verify it, i would expect to just type jhbuild build and it starting working away ^^
<highvoltage> lanoxx_: I think we might run into that on debian too.
<lanoxx_> highvoltage, hmm, it its a bug in the build dependencies than yes
<lanoxx_> highvoltage, it seems your mail hasnt arrived here yet
<highvoltage> lanoxx_: weird, yes I see it's not in the list archives yet. perhaps gnome list servers are running slow, will forward it to you directly so long and check back there later
<highvoltage> (bbl)
<lanoxx_> highvoltage, if required 2.5 means that it needs to have exactly 2.5, then the requirements are wrong i think, python should be backwards compatible and 2.5 is not even in the repositories as far as i know
<lanoxx_> btw, are you also using the gnome-world-3.10 moduleset to build stuff?
<lanoxx> highvoltage, re
#edubuntu 2014-07-29
<jaskaran> hello everyone
<jaskaran> i am using edubuntu to run thin clients in my college lab using LTSP
<jaskaran> now I am thinking to deploy 5 more servers to serve 50 more thin clients using edubuntu
<jaskaran> so I need to know how can I implement load balancing between the servers
<jaskaran> any amount of help will be useful
#edubuntu 2015-07-30
<pdyo> ChanServ: hello
<pdyo> i found edubuntu amazing
<highvoltage> pdyo: :)
<pdyo> i met a problem ,i cannot ssh remote ubuntu server use computer a,but any others can login
<pdyo> computer a always get Too many authentication failures for root
<pdyo> i've searched but not found solution
#edubuntu 2017-07-31
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: gnome-applets (zesty-proposed/universe) [3.22.0-2ubuntu0.1 => 3.22.0-2ubuntu0.2] (desktop-extra, edubuntu)
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: cloud-init (xenial-proposed/main) [0.7.9-153-g16a7302f-0ubuntu1~16.04.2 => 0.7.9-233-ge586fe35-0ubuntu1~16.04.1] (edubuntu, ubuntu-cloud, ubuntu-server)
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: cloud-init (zesty-proposed/main) [0.7.9-153-g16a7302f-0ubuntu1~17.04.2 => 0.7.9-233-ge586fe35-0ubuntu1~17.04.1] (edubuntu, ubuntu-cloud, ubuntu-server)
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: cloud-init (xenial-proposed/main) [0.7.9-153-g16a7302f-0ubuntu1~16.04.2 => 0.7.9-233-ge586fe35-0ubuntu1~16.04.1] (edubuntu, ubuntu-cloud, ubuntu-server)
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: cloud-init (zesty-proposed/main) [0.7.9-153-g16a7302f-0ubuntu1~17.04.2 => 0.7.9-233-ge586fe35-0ubuntu1~17.04.1] (edubuntu, ubuntu-cloud, ubuntu-server)
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: cloud-init (xenial-proposed/main) [0.7.9-153-g16a7302f-0ubuntu1~16.04.2 => 0.7.9-233-ge586fe35-0ubuntu1~16.04.1] (edubuntu, ubuntu-cloud, ubuntu-server)
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: cloud-init (zesty-proposed/main) [0.7.9-153-g16a7302f-0ubuntu1~17.04.2 => 0.7.9-233-ge586fe35-0ubuntu1~17.04.1] (edubuntu, ubuntu-cloud, ubuntu-server)
#edubuntu 2017-08-04
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: gnome-flashback (zesty-proposed/universe) [3.22.1-0ubuntu1 => 3.22.1-0ubuntu1.1] (edubuntu)
#edubuntu 2018-07-31
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: cloud-init (bionic-proposed/main) [18.3-9-g2e62cb8a-0ubuntu1~18.04.1 => 18.3-9-g2e62cb8a-0ubuntu1~18.04.2] (edubuntu, ubuntu-cloud, ubuntu-server)
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: cloud-init (xenial-proposed/main) [18.3-9-g2e62cb8a-0ubuntu1~16.04.1 => 18.3-9-g2e62cb8a-0ubuntu1~16.04.2] (edubuntu, ubuntu-cloud, ubuntu-server)
#edubuntu 2018-08-01
-queuebot:#edubuntu- New binary: suitesparse [s390x] (cosmic-proposed/main) [1:5.3.0+dfsg-1] (edubuntu, kubuntu, ubuntu-desktop, ubuntugnome)
-queuebot:#edubuntu- New binary: suitesparse [ppc64el] (cosmic-proposed/main) [1:5.3.0+dfsg-1] (edubuntu, kubuntu, ubuntu-desktop, ubuntugnome)
-queuebot:#edubuntu- New binary: suitesparse [amd64] (cosmic-proposed/main) [1:5.3.0+dfsg-1] (edubuntu, kubuntu, ubuntu-desktop, ubuntugnome)
-queuebot:#edubuntu- New binary: suitesparse [arm64] (cosmic-proposed/main) [1:5.3.0+dfsg-1] (edubuntu, kubuntu, ubuntu-desktop, ubuntugnome)
-queuebot:#edubuntu- New binary: suitesparse [armhf] (cosmic-proposed/main) [1:5.3.0+dfsg-1] (edubuntu, kubuntu, ubuntu-desktop, ubuntugnome)
#edubuntu 2018-08-02
-queuebot:#edubuntu- New binary: suitesparse [i386] (cosmic-proposed/main) [1:5.3.0+dfsg-1] (edubuntu, kubuntu, ubuntu-desktop, ubuntugnome)
#edubuntu 2020-07-29
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: bcache-tools (focal-proposed/main) [1.0.8-3 => 1.0.8-3ubuntu0.1] (edubuntu, i386-whitelist, ubuntu-server)
