#ubuntu-translators 2011-10-03
<andrejz> morning dpm! Love the new stats ;)
<kelemengabor> dpm: hi, do you happen to know what's going on with the evolution and e-d-s imports? the pot files were imported just fine, but the po files didn't appeared in the import queue, which is btw full with old po files in needs review status
<kelemengabor> https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/oneiric/+source/evolution/+imports
<kelemengabor> https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/oneiric/+source/evolution-data-server/+imports
<dpm> kelemengabor, hm, I don't know, they all look like old imports to me
<kelemengabor> yeah, but where are the more recent ones?
<dpm> kelemengabor, they should either be imported through the imports queue (imported entries are removed from the queue view after 3 days iirc) or through imports sharing
<dpm> assuming all went well, of course :)
<dpm> actually, if all went well, they should have been imported through sharing from the evolution upstream trunk branch in LP
<dpm> and only the POT template should have been imported through the Ubuntu imports queue
<kelemengabor> https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/oneiric/+source/evolution/+pots/evolution/hu/+translate?show=untranslated
<kelemengabor>          1                    â           10                  of         143         results
<kelemengabor> doesn't look like all went well
<kelemengabor> there should be about 0 untranslated strings
<kelemengabor> https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/oneiric/+source/evolution/+sharing-details
<kelemengabor> now this is an interesting message
<kelemengabor> No upstream templates have been found yet. Please follow the import process by going to the Translation Import Queue of the upstream project series.
<dpm> kelemengabor, yeah, looking at it, it seems that evo is not set up for message sharing (it's all set up, only the translations for the upstream project need to be activated)
<dpm> however, if they are not activated, then PO+POT files should be imported through the Ubuntu imports queue
<dpm> so, I'd recommend looking at the date of the last upload and at the PO files the source package of that upload contained
<kelemengabor> I saw that the pot file was imported, but nothing else
<kelemengabor> and the new strings are indeed there
<dpm> kelemengabor, when was the upload?
<kelemengabor> umm... sometime last week, I guess
<kelemengabor> 2011-09-26
<kelemengabor> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/oneiric/+source/evolution-data-server
<kelemengabor> and 2011-09-27 for evolution
<dpm> kelemengabor, then most likely the entries have been removed from the queue after being imported (I'm being optimistic here). There are no traces of the imported POT or PO files in the queue
<dpm> let me check the source package
<dpm> in the meantime, and on the positive side, we've now got translations stats updated daily with real data at http://people.canonical.com/~dpm/stats/ubuntu-11.10-translation-stats.html
<dpm> from now on, the stats of all supported versions should be updated daily
<dpm> kelemengabor, I'll have to ask on #launchpad, I cannot figure out where the PO files went
<kelemengabor> dpm: thanks
<kelemengabor> and this list is awesome :)
<dpm> :)
<kelemengabor> why is evolution not listed as partially untranslated for Hungarian? it has quite a few strings left
<dpm> kelemengabor, I've just noticed it as well :). I'll have to investigate
<andrejz> hello
<andrejz> can someone confirm a bug for me
<andrejz> kelemengabor you there?
<kelemengabor> yep
<kelemengabor> what's the problem?
<andrejz> when using unity dash and searching
<andrejz> applications and "files and folders" are not translated
<andrejz> i have all the latest updates
<kelemengabor> I don't have unity, only unity-2d
<andrejz> oh, ok
<kelemengabor> hm, those strings are from the lenses, and they are untranslated for me too
<andrejz> is there a bug reported about this that you are aware
<kelemengabor> I don't remember of any
<andrejz> ok, then i can report it
<andrejz> kelemengabor, which unity lens should it be reported against
<Jessica_Lily> dpm I haven't been able to catch you for a while but â¦ na'vi got rejected from glibc
<Jessica_Lily> I'm not sure what the next step is
<dpm> andrejz, I guess you can report it against unity itself
<dpm> Jessica_Lily, hi
<Jessica_Lily> hey :)
<dpm> yeah, I saw it. I'm wondering if it might be worth adding it to Ubuntu nevertheless, sort of what we did on Klingon
<dpm> I haven't read the comments for a while
<dpm> did you comment something along those lines on the Ubuntu bug?
<dpm> If the maintainer (pitti) agrees, perhaps that might be the way to go
<kelemengabor> oh yes, the strings are in .ini files, which need either inline translations, or a [Desktop Entry] group using X-Ubuntu-Gettext-Domain and listing the translatable Name, Description, Comment or GenericName key, having these keys under another group, as all the lenses do it now, won't work
<kelemengabor> andrejz: bad news: against all of them
<Jessica_Lily> dpm yep, i can link you to the bug if you want
<dpm> and if it works out and there are lots of Na'vi translations, perhaps that might give some more momentum for upstream to consider accepting it
<Jessica_Lily> yer
<Jessica_Lily> well i have a few in the na'vi community willing to translate
<kelemengabor> unity-lens-files, unity-lens-applications, unity-lens-music and gwibber has a lens too
<Jessica_Lily> https://bugs.launchpad.net/glibc/+bug/831976 @ dpm
<ubot4> Launchpad bug 831976 in langpack-locales (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "Addition of Na'vi Language (affects: 1) (heat: 8)" [Undecided,New]
<dpm> Jessica_Lily, it's fine, thanks, I've got the link on my e-mail :) I'd suggest talking to pitti, either on IRC, through the bug comments or via e-mail (feel free to CC me), to see how he feels about including it in Ubuntu
<Jessica_Lily> i'll see if he's on IRC first
<Jessica_Lily> hmm he's away and been idle for nearly 3 days
<kelemengabor> dpm: I almost forgot, but I dug out something interesting about the klingon locale: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/oneiric/libx11/oneiric/revision/54#debian/patches/101_klingon_locale_alias.diff
<andrejz> @kelemengabor, dpm - https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/865430
<kelemengabor> no good news for na'vi
<ubot4> Launchpad bug 865430 in unity "Categories "Applications" and "Files and folders" are untranslated (affects: 1) (heat: 8)" [Undecided,New]
<andrejz> hm, ok, so i need to assign this bug to different lenses too
<dpm> oh, it seems Klingon was dropped, then
<Jessica_Lily> klingon is still there isn't it ?
<kelemengabor> Jessica_Lily: unfortunately, no
<Jessica_Lily> what was the reason for dropping it?
<Jessica_Lily> its still got an option in launchpad to translate oneiric into it
<Jessica_Lily> and by the looks of things people have been
<Jessica_Lily> https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/oneiric/+lang/tlh
<kelemengabor> Jessica_Lily: this is why Debian rejected the libx11 patch: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=581524 and this is why glibc will reject anything that's not spoken by lots of real people: http://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=4086
<ubot4> Debian bug 581524 in libx11 "libx11: Latin and Klingon locales" [Wishlist,Open]
<kelemengabor> Also, it seems to me that the Klingon translation was nothing more than a joke from the beginning: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-l10n-tlh
<Jessica_Lily> hmm i don't know, just because they put a whimsical statement on their page doesn't mean they don't take what they do seriously?
<kelemengabor> well, the fact that the two members of that team are Canonicals programmer-halfgods says everything about their seriousness to me
<andrejz> kelemengabor : amount of translated strings also says something :)
<kelemengabor> so I think this is where it is wiser for you to give up this effort. I don't mean to mock or hurt you, but klingons and na'vis are "just a TV-show", and we are here to translate Ubuntu for real people, who could not use it otherwise. I'm sure that you could find some other areas to help Ubuntu and its users, who are not fictional.
<Jessica_Lily> kelemengabor I won't give up
<Jessica_Lily> if needs must i will write a script users can run to give them a some patched packages and pull of a 3rd party translation site
<Jessica_Lily> but i'd prefer launchpad to allow it as that'd be the best option
<Jessica_Lily> kelemengabor i understand where you're coming from and there are bigger priorities but this would be nice to be able to accept
<dpm> Jessica_Lily, let me try to talk to the maintainers and come back to you
<Jessica_Lily> okay, thanks :)
<dpm> Jessica_Lily, but just to set expectations, be aware that the answer might be the same as kelemengabor's. Btw, thanks Gabor for the honest feedback
<dpm> especially now that klingon support has been dropped :/
<Jessica_Lily> mmm, its a shame its been dropped
<Jessica_Lily> i wish it had more support, if i knew klingon i would have helped translate
<Jessica_Lily> unfortunately i don't xD
<dpm> :)
<Jessica_Lily> like i said failing that i'll just have to write a script to patch it
#ubuntu-translators 2011-10-04
<head_victim> dpm: not trying to hassle too much but is there a "normal eta" for requests similar to https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/170787  ?
<dpm> hi head_victim. Yes, sorry, it usually takes LP admins a few days to action requests, but this time it seems it's taking them longer. Let me see if I can ping someone on #launchpad
<head_victim> Thanks mate
<dpm> no worries, asked on #launchpad, let's wait for an admin to reply
<dpm> head_victim, the request has now been solved :) (for the record, the reason why admins hadn't looked at it was because it had been marked as answered, so they thought it had been solved - you did everything right on your side, though)
<head_victim> dpm: you sir, are awesome
<head_victim> Anyone know what package looks after the livecd menus?
<head_victim> I've had some feedback from a non translator but can't lay my hands on the correct package
<sagaci> try ubuntu without installing, etc?
<head_victim> Yep, I can't remember where that was
<sagaci> bootloader?
<sagaci> https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/oneiric/+source/gfxboot-theme-ubuntu/+pots/bootloader/en_AU/+translate?direction=backwards&memo=40&start=30
<head_victim> sagaci: cheers mate, was a German friend in the Lubuntu team ;)
<sagaci> righteo then
<head_victim> dpm: as far as launchpad and Ubuntu translations groups go, is there a "best practice" way to make one a sub team of the other?
<dpm> head_victim, generally we recommend the ubuntu-l10n-* team to be a subteam of the launchpad-l10n-* team
<head_victim> That makes sense, just making sure there wasn't something we hadn't thought of and would be painful to change later
<dpm> I think that should be all. The reason being, some people want to translate applications in LP (e.g. Chromium), but do not use or want to translate Ubuntu
<dpm> And the teams being linked helps with permissions when translating packages in Ubuntu that are also translated as upstream packages in Launchpad
<artnay_> speaking of chromium, there hasn't been any translation updates for a while
<artnay_> is fta still maintaining chromium translations?
<artnay_> I should probably ask directly from fta
<artnay_> my concern is that he's no longer on mozilla channel (nor any other ubuntu channels)
<head_victim> So if you did it that way, members of the Ubuntu translation team would have rights in the Launchpad translation team but not vice versa
<dpm> exactly
<dpm> artnay, yeah, I noticed that too. I haven't heard from him in a while :/
<artnay> 11:59     artnay : hey there. are you still maintaining chromium translations on LP?
<artnay> 11:59        fta : no
<artnay> so, umh, chromium is without translations from now on. such a shame.
<artnay> 12:00        fta : i'm no longer part of ubuntu
<artnay> 12:02        fta : you should contact micahg & chriscoulson (in #ubuntu-mozillateam), they inherited my tools & privileges
<artnay> I guess fta had enough of unity, err... :-)
<dpm> artnay, oh, that's a real pity :(
<dpm> in any case, I don't think it had to do anything to do with unity, why should it?
<artnay> dpm: well he's been having a lot of problems with unity (according to his blog): http://ftagada.wordpress.com
<dpm> artnay, well, there is a single blog post stating that unity has memory leaks. He's not mentioning at all that he wants to leave ubuntu because of that
<artnay> dpm: there's more, this is the first one: http://ftagada.wordpress.com/2011/03/06/unity-in-natty-is-it-for-me/
<artnay> and he talked a lot on #ubuntu-desktop before he left
<artnay> but yeah, I'm not saying it's because of unity. just guessing...
<dpm> artnay, I've read all his unity posts, they were on the planet, I'm just saying that I haven't heard or read anywhere that he left because of Unity
<artnay> "Give up on Ubuntu? less likely, but not impossible either."
<dpm> that's again a guess :-)
<artnay> hopefully one of active chromium members will take care of translations: https://launchpad.net/~chromium-team/+members#active
<artnay> dpm: should this be filed as a bug against ubuntu-translations? chromium doesn't use LP for bugs (bugs are here: http://code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/ )
<artnay> I haven't seen fta's announcement (I asked him if he's sent e-mail to Chromium MLs or somewhere) and I can't find a bug report on this at chromium bugs
<dpm> artnay, hm, good point, but I'm not too sure how to go about this. Chromium is not part of the Ubuntu project and its not in main, either, so ubuntu-translations might not be the best place to track this. I think the best thing would be for fta to document what needs to be done for someone else to pick up the translations maintenance. If the infrastructure is still in place, it might just be a matter of sending the translations branches upstream
<artnay> dpm: let's wait micagh's answer or chrisc to show up. as they're both part of chromium team, maybe one of them could discuss with fta.
<dpm> artnay, sounds like a good plan
<head_victim> dpm: while I'm hassling you (sorry!) how do you finalise those translations that have translator-credit strings that just never want to seem to clear (https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/oneiric/+source/empathy/+pots/empathy/en_AU/+translate?show=untranslated&batch=50)
<dpm> head_victim, that's a bug, don't worry about finishing them
<head_victim> dpm: ok so anything we need to log to have it fixed or just a wait for it to be updated thing?
<dpm> danilos, I too have noticed translations-credits strings coming back with a vengeance in the last few weeks. Any ideas on recent changes on LP that might have caused that?
<dpm> head_victim, I'd recommend to just forget about it for now, LP developers should take care of fixing it eventually
<head_victim> dpm: that's good news, just making sure there's nothing we were doing.
<danilos> dpm, not that I know of, please file a bug if there's not one already, and if this is a recent pattern, please document how this has started happening recently and didn't happen before (so we can tag it as "regression" and mark it as critical)
<artnay> any idea which package provides "Authentication required to edit APT sources" or similar when opening software sources from software center? I guess originates from d-bus/policykit but still can't find the translation template for it
<kelemengabor> artnay: that's from software-properties-gtk
<kelemengabor> and I have a bug and a fix for it too, let me look it up
<kelemengabor> bug #853354
<ubot4> Launchpad bug 853354 in ubuntu-system-service (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "Make the system-service .policy file dynamically translatable (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/853354
<kelemengabor> not this :(
<kelemengabor> bug #853231
<ubot4> Launchpad bug 853231 in software-properties (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "Make the software-properties .policy file dynamically translatable (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/853231
<kelemengabor> this! :)
<artnay> kelemengabor: nice, thanks for the link.
<dpm> thanks danilos, this is now bug/866082
<dpm> bug 866082
<ubot4> Launchpad bug 866082 in launchpad "Translator credits shown as untranslated (and untranslatable) strings (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/866082
<dpm> kelemengabor, yesterday I figured out why evolution wasn't showing up in the Hungarian team's statistics of untranslated strings. The stats generator is working well, it's simply that now evo is not part of the main iso as we've switched to thunderbird by default - by design, the stats only account for packages installed by default
<kelemengabor> dpm: oh... silly me :(
<kelemengabor> is there anything about the evolution* po imports?
<dpm> kelemengabor, I'm asking on #launchpad now
<dpm> heads up that new language packs are being uploaded right now
<dpm> for oneiric, that is
<dpm> after this one, the last upload will be on Friday
<dpm> and the translations deadline stays as it is: Thursday the 6th Oct
<head_victim> dpm: we're under 100K strings total :)
<head_victim> All I can say is, Translations Jams really work.
<dpm> head_victim, awesome :-)
<dpm> kelemengabor, good job on spotting and fixing the policy files, let's see if the fix can be included for the release. Also good work on bug 865430 :)
<ubot4> Launchpad bug 865430 in unity-lens-files (Ubuntu) (and 5 other projects) "Categories "Applications" and "Files and folders" are untranslated (affects: 4) (heat: 22)" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/865430
<danilos> dpm, hum, I was looking at something and noticed that global suggestions do not seem to work at all anymore; have you seen that as well?
<dpm> danilos, they seemed to work for me this morning, IIRC, although I can't remember which package
<danilos> dpm, I'll look into your history trying to find it then :)
<dpm> :)
<danilos> dpm, deja-dup? lightdm?
<danilos> dpm, ubuntu-docs?
<dpm> danilos, deja-dup or ubuntu-docs, most probably the latter
<danilos> dpm, do note that I am thinking of global suggestions, i.e. not sharing-suggestions, but those from entirely different projects
<dpm> yeah, those I meant, but let me see if I can remember from which other project I saw (or dreamt) suggestions coming from
<danilos> dpm, please, because I believe I found another bug introduced by people "optimizing" code :)
<danilos> dpm, basically, when was the last time you've seen "Used in ... " or "Suggested in ..." describing a suggestion
<dpm> danilos, here: https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/oneiric/+source/ubuntu-docs/+pots/ubuntu-help/ca/5/+translate - this one should normally come from sharing, but as the template has got a different name it should then come from global suggestions, right?
<dpm> I mean the second suggestion
<danilos> dpm, right, thanks, looks very interesting, I'll have to dive deeper then :/
<dpm> danilos, ok, let me know if I can help in any way
<danilos> dpm, the issue is that I couldn't get them to show up locally, which made me discover a bug; if they are showing up, it could be either because they are present in *both*, but we choose arbitrary pofile to show, or because I am stupid :)
<artnay> hmm, the latest lang packs didn't include ubuntu-help - yelp's content is fully in English
<dpm> artnay, the docs are only included in full language packs, which was not the case of today's. The language packs generated on Thursday will contain them. But thanks for the heads up, it will be something to watch for on Thursday
<dpm> hi happyaron. Someone raised bug 827420 to me. Would you mind having a look at it?
<ubot4> Launchpad bug 827420 in zeitgeist-extensions (and 3 other projects) "Unity dash file search returns relevant files and folders but not all as I expect. (affects: 2) (dups: 1) (heat: 75)" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/827420
<dpm> it seems to be a problem with the translation of the desktop files
<happyaron> dpm: ok, let me have a look after a while...
<dpm> thanks happyaron :)
<happyaron> dpm: sorry I am a bit confused, which desktop file do you mean?
<dpm> happyaron, it's explained on comment #4
<dpm> even if it's a terminology issue difficult to fix with translations, it would be great if you could leave a comment on the bug
<happyaron> I still don't understand what should I do...
<happyaron> The line numbers given in #4 isn't correct to explain.
<dpm> they might have moved, but I think they pointed to the comment field on the .desktop file
<happyaron> I see.
<happyaron> So it means I shouldn't translate those comment fields?
<dpm> happyaron, I cannot really tell, as I can't read Simplified Chinese, so I thought you could tell me more :). From the bug description, the current translations of the comment fields seem to generate confusion, so I'm wondering if an alternative translation might work better
<happyaron> ok I get your point.
<happyaron> #4 means why user cannot get correct result is because translations aren't good enough?
<happyaron> dpm: I believe this bug is not relevant to translations, but relevant to word-breaking of unity.
<happyaron> or zg
<happyaron> the original report said, that when he searches for "æä»¶", "Documents" is shown as expected, but other files containing the character "æ" isn't in the result.
<dpm> happyaron, would you mind adding a comment on the bug, so that developers can look at it if necessary?
<happyaron> ok, will do it.
<dpm> thanks a lot happyaron!
<happyaron> dpm: posted #6
<dpm> thanks :)
<happyaron> This issue was hard to deal with, until chromium project gave it a solution. ;-)
<dpm> happyaron, in which sense chromium provided a solution?
<happyaron> Chromium provided a library/function about Chinese word breaking.
<happyaron> you know, Chinese doesn't break words by space, but by logic. Usually when we double click on a line of English in the web browser, it is expected that a word is selected. But without correct word-breaking logic, the whole line will be selected (because they are treated as a single word).
<happyaron> in Chinese
<happyaron> ^^
<happyaron> Now when we double click on a line of Chinese text in Chromium, a word would be selected; but in Firefox, the whole line will be selected.
 * happyaron is not sure whether he explains clear.
<happyaron> the logic is hard to develop, and is a long standing academic problem. Chromium provides a good light-weight implemetation that could be used in a daily basis...
<happyaron> sorry, gotta go. cya
<dpm> kelemengabor, evo has now been imported
<dpm> it was a bug in LP with source packages with disabled templates in the +templates page
<dpm> the bug has not yet been fixed, but the pending translations have been imported
<kelemengabor> so we still need the new po files, right?
<dpm> well, or at least approved, I didn't check on the actual status other that they're no longer in new review
<dpm> kelemengabor, the new po files were the ones imported. The confusing part is that the imports queue does not update the date of the entries
<dpm> so they had a date like August on the imports queue view
<dpm> as the first ones to land there were in August (or earlier, I can't remember)
<dpm> but in fact there were more recent ones in the queue
<kelemengabor> yeah, from May and June
<dpm> ah, they've been approved now: https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/oneiric/+source/evolution/+imports?field.filter_status=APPROVED&field.filter_extension=po
<dpm> but not yet imported, which may still take a few hours
<kelemengabor> hah, I see, the approved hu.po uploaded on 2011-06-25 has PO-Revision-Date: 2011-09-12
<dpm> ah there you go
<kelemengabor> but, this happens only to evolution, right? e-d-s and evolution-exchange is also affected...
<kelemengabor> https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/oneiric/+source/evolution-data-server/+imports
<kelemengabor> https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/oneiric/+source/evolution-exchange/+imports
<mdke> there was recently some posts on the ML which suggested that LP was not synching Ubuntu and upstream translations as it should - does anyone know if that has been resolved now?
<mdke> hmm, looks like it isn't
#ubuntu-translators 2011-10-05
<dpm> kelemengabor, good morning. I've fixed evolution-data-server and evolution-exchange by moving the templates out of the way (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuTranslationsCoordinators/Actions/LpTemplateAdministration#Moving_templates_out_of_the_way) - they were affected by the same bug as the main evo package. We should watch the queue in the next few hours to see if that causes the PO files to get imported. I've checked out the list of templates and I
<dpm>  think were the only ones left to fix due to this bug
<kelemengabor> dpm: thanks!
<kelemengabor> dpm: looks like one round of templates was approved, about 80 and 70 of the 250 total, so far so good
<dpm> kelemengabor, ah, awesome, evolution-exchange seems to be done with approvals as well (the remaining po files there are for languages we either don't have in LP or that we don't have a mapping for)
<dpm> and now all files have been approved
<kelemengabor> dpm: can we have a new report on the unknown domains? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuTranslationsCoordinators/OngoingProjects/UnknownDomains
<kelemengabor> I just found that alacarte was moved to universe:
<kelemengabor> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/oneiric/+source/alacarte
<kelemengabor> and its template is not disabled yet
<kelemengabor> and my gut feeling says there is surely a few more templates like this
<dpm> kelemengabor, yeah, good point. I'll see if the langpacks from yesterday generated the log, otherwise, I'm not sure we'll be able to fix this before Thursday
<dpm> generally this kind of log is best generated with full langpack exports
<dpm> but the one on Thursday will be too late already, as the last export will have happened already, and even if we fix the templates, the changes won't appear until the first post-release langpack
<dpm> give me 5 mins, I'm cleaning up the imports queue right now
<kelemengabor> gotta run, bye
<artnay> dpm: nice work with stats! what's the update interval?
<dpm> artnay, thanks :-) they're updated every day at 12:00 UTC, so the next update will be in ~30 minutes
<artnay> dpm: ok, you might want to mention that on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Translations/Stats#UbuntuTranslationStatistics
<sagaci> why aren't libreoffice, firefox and thunderbird available to translate?
<dpm> sagaci, because we don't have the infrastructure to translate them in Launchpad unfortunately. They all use their own translations format, not compatible with gettext, which is what Launchpad fully supports
<sagaci> ah ok so is it possible to somehow just translate them upstream and have that work included in ubuntu?
<artnay> sagaci: by participating to upstream work, yes.
<artnay> libreoffice uses pootle and welcomes new contributors
<sagaci> :)
<artnay> firefox and thunderbird might already have an established translator base so you should ask them
<artnay> sagaci: https://translations.documentfoundation.org/ and http://www.libreoffice.org/get-involved/localizers/
<dpm> artnay, wiki updated with the info, thanks for the heads up
<sagaci> thanks
<artnay> dpm: great, less dupe questions for you :-)
<dpm> :-)
<dpm> hi kelemengabor, quick question, as you handled the gnome docs templates and all. So is ubuntu-help basically a patched version of the gnome docs?
<kelemengabor> yes
<kelemengabor> I have uploaded the full gnome-help into ubuntu-docs
<kelemengabor> and about 860 untranslated remained
<kelemengabor> and a lot of these is turning up as fuzzy in Lokalize
<dpm> kelemengabor, oh, I see. So you uploaded the hu file, as the docs team don't import upstream translations, right?
<kelemengabor> yes
<kelemengabor> but I guess it would be safe to set up upstream sync from gnome-help to ubuntu-docs, if it is possible
<kelemengabor> if this is where you want to go :)
<dpm> I'm just thinking what would make things easier, as the current approach is far from optimal. Unfortunately, I don't think upstream sync would work, as they are different branches and different templates
<dpm> kelemengabor, looking at the imports queue, do you know if yelp-xsl has changed its path where the template is created? I'm tempted to just approve the template there: https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/oneiric/+source/yelp-xsl/+imports?field.filter_status=NEEDS_REVIEW&field.filter_extension=pot
<kelemengabor> dpm: no idea. last time I committed a translation into upstream, it went to po/
<kelemengabor> btw, all translations in yelp-ysl are going to be merged into an xml file at build time, so there is no much point in exposing it for translation in LP
<kelemengabor> also no point in exporting the mo file
<kelemengabor> hm, now this is interesting: http://git.gnome.org/browse/yelp-xsl/tree/po/POTFILES.in
<dpm> err... that must be a mistake, right?
<kelemengabor> nope
<kelemengabor> http://git.gnome.org/browse/yelp-xsl/tree/xslt/gettext/domains/Makefile.am
<kelemengabor> the pot is generated using itstool, this is why we have two pot files
<kelemengabor> but still, the translations go into an xml file at build time, so there is no much point to make it translatable, right?
<dpm> kelemengabor, I'm thinking about it. If they are very visible translations, it might make sense to ensure developers export it, altough it's too late for this release
<kelemengabor> dpm: these are the localizable parts of the yelp stylesheets
<kelemengabor> I wouldn't call it essential
<kelemengabor> we don't have resources to ensure the proper translations of more visible strings, like, um, LO .desktop files ;)
<kelemengabor> in the sense of bug #512395
<ubot4> Launchpad bug 512395 in openoffice.org (Ubuntu) (and 2 other projects) "Libreoffices .desktop files do not contain translation domain info (affects: 4) (dups: 1) (heat: 32)" [Wishlist,Won't fix] https://launchpad.net/bugs/512395
<kelemengabor> dpm: if you don't mind, I'll deactivate a few templates: alacarte because it's in universe, quassel becasue of the things written in https://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu-translations/+question/170093 and lo-build and lo-desktop because of the last comment in bug 512395
<ubot4> Launchpad bug 512395 in openoffice.org (Ubuntu) (and 2 other projects) "Libreoffices .desktop files do not contain translation domain info (affects: 5) (dups: 1) (heat: 38)" [Wishlist,Won't fix] https://launchpad.net/bugs/512395
<dpm> kelemengabor, yeap, all good thanks. Would you mind leaving the quassel one for now, though? I set it up a while ago for the quassel guys to pick up translations from LP (I know they should have used an upstream project instead), and I'd like to check with them if they're still using it before disabling it
<kelemengabor> sure
<kelemengabor> but I'll kill its mo export, that's surely unused
<dpm> yes, go for it
<kelemengabor> all done
<kelemengabor> hm, this quassel upstream is strange: https://translations.launchpad.net/quassel/trunk
<dpm> kelemengabor, yeah, I don't know what they did there
<dpm> kelemengabor, do you happen to know where the keyboard layout strings that appear in the keyboard indicator come from? I've noticed the "Catalan (Spain, with middle-dot L)" string I got translated in my indicator on Natty is now untranslated in Oneiric, and I'm not sure if it's the indicator not translating it or the string having become fuzzy and thus not translated
<kelemengabor> hm, keyboard indicator? perhaps xkeyboard-config?
<kelemengabor> hm, strange, I can add Catalan (Spain, with middle-dot L), and I have only a translated "Spanish (Catalan variant with middle-dot L)" in LP
<kelemengabor> https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/oneiric/xkeyboard-config/oneiric
<dpm> yeah, the latter is what appeared translated in Natty
<kelemengabor>  * No need to build the pot file anymore, upstream version is used.
<dpm> I've just seen it too
<kelemengabor> :(
<kelemengabor> this explains it...
<dpm> I'm still not sure I follow it, that would explain it if the POT file were not up to date, so let me check if the upstream POT file contains the string when built
<kelemengabor> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/oneiric/xkeyboard-config/oneiric/view/head:/po/xkeyboard-config.pot#L560
<kelemengabor> its there, this is even stranger
<dpm> yeah, it seems that the latest POT file did not get imported into LP
<kelemengabor>                     Path of the template in the source tree, including filename.:
<kelemengabor> debian/xkeyboard-config.pot
<kelemengabor> maybe this?
<kelemengabor> it's in po/ now
<kelemengabor> https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/oneiric/+source/xkeyboard-config/+pots/xkeyboard-config/+edit
<dpm> yeah :(
<kelemengabor> I'll fix it
<kelemengabor> can we ask for a no change upload?
<dpm> It's not necessary, I'll try to manually upload the template, let's hope it makes it until tomorrow 9:00UTC
<kelemengabor> and the translations?
<kelemengabor> should wait for the next update?
<dpm> ah, good point, I hadn't thought about this. However, I don't want to rush an upload now, as it would need to happen fairly soon, then hope it is built in time and that afterwards the translations are also imported by tomorrow. I think we should leave it for now and get this fixed properly: the package should generate an up-to-date POT file
<dpm> as I've noticed the shipped upstream POT file is not up to date
<dpm> a manually-generated one contains 1 string more
<kelemengabor> I think we can use bug #827666 to track this
<ubot4> Launchpad bug 827666 in xkeyboard-config (Ubuntu) "Please import the upstream French translation (affects: 1) (heat: 4)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/827666
<dpm> hm, I think it's best if we file a new one with the exact description of what needs to be done in the package, and then point to this one
<dpm> hm ubuntu-bug says xkeyboard-config does not exist?
<kelemengabor> dpm: that's the source package name, the binary is xkb-data
<dpm> aha, thanks kelemengabor :)
<kelemengabor> and we have the xkb-data-i18n package, which contains the translated mo files, but it is not anymore on the installer CD
<kelemengabor> looks like it has lost its relevance
<dpm> kelemengabor, oh, so translations on the desktop are not loaded from langpacks?
<dpm> in the meantime, here's bug 868554
<ubot4> Launchpad bug 868554 in xkeyboard-config (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "Need to create POT template on build (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/868554
<kelemengabor> they are on the installed system, but not on the live CD, which uses hard wired translations from d-i which are based on the po files
<kelemengabor> formerly, the live CD used the xkb-data-i18n package, this seems to have changed
<dpm> oh, I see, I'm not sure what the live CD uses now
<kelemengabor> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/current/oneiric-desktop-i386.manifest
<kelemengabor> well, no xkb-data-i18n here
<kelemengabor> but we have http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-installer/ubiquity/trunk/view/head:/d-i/make-keyboard-names
<dpm> yeah, I'm wondering how they are loaded, if they are at all. I haven't tested an oneiric iso in a while
<kelemengabor> I did :)
<dpm> I still don't quite get it. How are they loaded from the locale dir, if the language packs are not yet installed? http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-installer/ubiquity/trunk/view/head:/d-i/make-keyboard-names#L80
<kelemengabor> this runs at build time or so
<kelemengabor> I'm looking for the exact file
<kelemengabor> but I know I saw it
<dpm> oh, cool, the new xkeyboard-config template has been imported. Let me try to manually upload translations for all languages...
<kelemengabor> hm, so the python file is not in the bzr branch, only in the binary package
<kelemengabor> apt-get install ubiquity && less /usr/lib/ubiquity/ubiquity/keyboard_names.py
<kelemengabor> :)
<kelemengabor> $ ls -lh /usr/lib/ubiquity/ubiquity/keyboard_names.py
<kelemengabor> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 1,9M 2011-10-05 03:45 /usr/lib/ubiquity/ubiquity/keyboard_names.py
<dpm> a bit of a big file, isn't it?
<dpm> are translations in there?
<kelemengabor> that's why its big
<dpm> that's what I call a brute force approach
<dpm> but it works, which is the main thing :)
<kelemengabor> apt-cache show xkb-data-i18n says:
<kelemengabor> Installed-Size: 2468
<kelemengabor> is this smaller than 1,9 M?
<kelemengabor> well, Synaptic lists it in human readable format: that's 2,5M
<dpm> is that in kb or in bytes?
<dpm> in kb, then
<dpm> ok, translations uploaded: https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/oneiric/+source/xkeyboard-config/+imports
<kelemengabor> okay, I'm stupid, the make-keyboard-names script still takes the translations from the xkb-data-i18n package, it is still relevant
<dpm> ah, ok, but it's only needed during the build, right?
<kelemengabor> right
<trijntje> kelemengabor: I recently tried uploading translations to quassel trunk, It got rejected for some strange reason
<kelemengabor> trijntje: where exactly?
<trijntje> https://translations.launchpad.net/quassel/i18n-master/+imports
<trijntje> kelemengabor: ^
<trijntje> thats the location that launchpad advertised as 'needing translations'
<kelemengabor> well, the error message says:
<kelemengabor> Outdated translation.  The last imported version of this file was dated 2011-09-07 09:08:00+08:00; the timestamp in the file you uploaded is 2010-12-16 06:22:00+00:00.
<kelemengabor> this is your file?
<trijntje> wait, thats not my file, hold on
<trijntje> kelemengabor: I'm confused now, I'm sure that the import showed an error for my upload, but now I find this email from rosetta telling me the import was succesfull
<trijntje> while at the same time, the template is still 100% untranslated
<trijntje> I'm uploading the translations again now, to see what error I will get
<kelemengabor> trijntje: I just downloaded the Hungarian quassel translation from Ubuntu, and it contained an incorrect plural form, is there nothing similar with yours? Does it pass msgfmt -c ?
<trijntje> kelemengabor: yes, msgfmt -c prints nothing, which I assume means no errors
<trijntje> kelemengabor: The new template got 'imported', as you can see here:https://translations.launchpad.net/quassel/i18n-master/+imports
<trijntje> but I dont know where the strings have gone, because the template still is 100% untranslated for Dutch(nl):https://translations.launchpad.net/quassel/i18n-master/+pots/quassel/nl/+translate
<kelemengabor> strange
<kelemengabor> any error message?
<trijntje> no, it says all translations have been imported
<kelemengabor> hm... I'll ask tomorrow dpm to take a look, I have no idea
<trijntje> strictly speaking its 'upstream', not ubuntu. Maybe I should just file a bug against upstream?
<kelemengabor> that can't hurt :)
<trijntje> ill try to speak to someone on irc, they have disabled bug tracking in lp. Thanks for looking into it, and have a nice evening
<kelemengabor> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2011/10/ubuntu-12-04-named-precise-pangolin :D
#ubuntu-translators 2011-10-06
<artnay> hi all.
<artnay> if you haven't subscribed to ML, please see https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-translators/2011-October/005023.html
<artnay> the bug report needs more +1's
<dpm> good morning all
<kelemengabor> good morning dpm
<dpm> hey kelemengabor :)
<kelemengabor> is it just me, or your software center looks like this too: http://people.ubuntu.com/~kelemeng/pix/softwarecenter.png ?
<dpm> kelemengabor, I'm about to report a bug, it looks even worse on mine, let me send a screenshot...
<dpm> kelemengabor, I see that on your system Education, Games, Graphics, Sound & Video, Universal Access and "More" are not translated, either.
<kelemengabor> yep :(
<dpm> I'm about to file bugs for all those
<dpm> well, "about to" means "as soon as Launchpad allows me"...
<kelemengabor> bug #868554 is fixed and the package is released, but no new templates here: https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/oneiric/+source/xkeyboard-config/+imports
<ubot4> Launchpad bug 868554 in xkeyboard-config (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "Need to create POT template on build (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/868554
<dpm> kelemengabor, let me have a look at it later. In any case, the translations I manually uploaded yesterday were all imported, so we should be all covered
<dpm> kelemengabor, here's the first SC bug: bug 868947
<ubot4> Launchpad bug 868947 in software-center (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "Heading text is not internationalization-friendly (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/868947
<kelemengabor> sure, just looks strange :)
<artnay> will non-languagepack packages receive post-release translation updates if the package itself is updated?
<dpm> artnay, generally not, although devs might be persuaded if we ask them
<artnay> in this case I'm speaking of ubuntu-help (which probably is incorporated into yelp)
<artnay> well, we were able to translate 66 % of ubuntu-help, rest will have to wait for precise.
<dpm> artnay, in that case, the best thing to do is to ask the docs team. And also note that any updates to ubuntu-docs need 1) an upload of the package with translations and additionally 2) a new full language pack release. So docs updates need to be synchronised with language pack updates
<artnay> dpm: did you read https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-translators/2011-October/005023.html
<dpm> artnay, I did, I asked him to report it on the translators list :). However, the last reply is not entirely correct, I believe. I think the "upstream overwrites" export has nothing to do with it, especially because what he's reporting is the contrary: it seems upstream is not being updated
<artnay> dpm: I see the same pattern there. Tomas has updated some strings and after import those updates (LP translations) are being marked as suggestions and the old string is being used
<dpm> artnay, he didn't do any translations in Launchpad, he did them upstream
<artnay> I hope he's able to give more examples and verify if those updates are actually from upstream or LP translations
<artnay> and if those new translations are actually from upstream, was the same string fixed in LP before upstream import
<artnay> there could be a conflict if the new upstream string is the same as what has been done on LP
<dpm> btw, I'm not saying it's not a bug (it might or might not be, it needs to be investigated). I'm just saying that I'm not sure they're the same bug
<artnay> and hence in such a conflict it defaults to old translation
<artnay> at least similar things occured when translating chromium
<artnay> dpm: did you follow my explanation? just tell me if I'm not being clear enough
<dpm> artnay, you mean the explanation here, on the bug, or on the mailing list?
<artnay> dpm: here :-)
<dpm> :)
<artnay> I should post that on ML as well
<artnay> but first things first, food!
<dpm> enjoy! :)
<stikonas> artnay: ping
<artnay> hi stikonas
<artnay> stikonas: at least Tomas has registered on LP
<artnay> https://launchpad.net/~tomasstraupis
<artnay> stikonas: I'll send a msg to him
<stikonas> artnay: that may be true, but yesterday dpm and I talked about strings that I was translating
<stikonas> and I am almost 100% sure that I have only touched them upstream
<artnay> okay, very strange
<artnay> so we have some pretty bad lp-translations bugs here
<artnay> let's see what Tomas replies
<stikonas> Lithuanian translation also causes/suffers from bug #636936 But this is probably unrelated...
<ubot4> Launchpad bug 636936 in language-pack-he (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "Export the number of plural forms as specified in the imported PO file's header (affects: 3) (heat: 2)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/636936
#ubuntu-translators 2011-10-07
<dpm> good morning all!
<artnay> dpm: g'd morning
<artnay> dpm: the reason I asked about ubuntu-help yesterday was that docs team added ~30 translatable strings yesterday. and the translation freeze for ubuntu-help was a week ago.
<dpm> artnay, I'm not sure why that was, but looking at the changelog, it seems that they added some missing desktop-sharing pages. In that case (docs that were missing by mistake now being added), I don't see a problem, other than it would have been nice if they'd notified translators. But in any case, there would have been no time for translators to translate the new strings - https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/oneiric/+source/ubuntu-docs/+changelog
<stikonas> artnay: Hello. I've talked to Tomas Straupis converning that bug where Launchpad doesn't import translations. He said that he hasn't been translating in Launchpad
#ubuntu-translators 2011-10-08
<andrejz> hello
<andrejz> can anyone confirm a translation bug for me?
<head_victim> andrejz: not sure, link it and I'll see
<andrejz> open the dash, start typing something
<andrejz> if you have some music files which match
<andrejz> you will notice category "Music" is not translated
<andrejz> but Programs and Files and Folders are
<head_victim> Ah, I use an English based language :/
<head_victim> I'll fire up a VM and change it
<trijntje> andrejz: what lens is that? Things look translated for me
<andrejz> default lens
<andrejz> just press Win key and type
<andrejz> make sure you have some hits in your music, otherwise you won't see it
<trijntje> andrejz: you are right, the category 'Music' is untranslated in the main dash view
<trijntje> I would guess its not translatable, since unity is fully translated in my language
<andrejz> the same with us
<andrejz> we have 100% coverage this cycle
<andrejz> it's funny cause i alreaday reported applications and files and folders untranslated a week ago, but forgot the music
<Numbskull> Evening all
<Numbskull> How would one go about getting involved with translating parts of Ubuntu, is it best to just ask here?
<trijntje> Numbskull: its probably best to contact the translation team for your language
<Numbskull> trinjntje: How would I go about doing that, through Launchpad?
#ubuntu-translators 2011-10-09
<iceroot> hi
<iceroot> i wanted to add missing translation to "pcmanfm" but https://translations.launchpad.net/pcmanfm doesnt show anything. waht is the correct way to translate missing strings for that package? (its the lxde file.manager)
#ubuntu-translators 2012-10-01
<artnay_> dpm: bug 1059554
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1059554 in unity-scope-gdocs (Ubuntu) ""Google Docs" is a deprecated term, nowadays its name is "Google Drive"" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1059554
<dpm> thanks artnay_, I've added an ubuntu-translations bug task to keep an eye on it
<trijntje> dpm: I just noticed the new template 'gnome-contacts', do you know why this got added today?
<dpm> hi trijntje, it has been in LP for quite a while. I just noticed I hadn't set the priority (it was 0), so I gave it a priority to appear on the first page in LP and on the webstats. I should have mentioned it in my e-mail to the list, but I noticed it afterwards, sorry
<trijntje> dpm: no problem, I just noticed it and was wondering if it was a mistake.
#ubuntu-translators 2012-10-02
<trijntje> dpm: btw, do you know why the docs do not appear the synchronise with the ubuntu-help package on the template list?
<trijntje> ubuntu-help appears fully translated for dutch, while ubuntu-docs/ubuntu-help has 390 untranslated messages
<dpm> trijntje, I'll have to have a look at the settings, I thought the docs team would have enabled synchronisation.
<trijntje> dpm: it looks like they did enable sharing of translations
#ubuntu-translators 2012-10-06
<pavolzetor> "Publish your picture on Facebook"
<pavolzetor> where can I translate this string?
<pavolzetor> it is in Online accounts
#ubuntu-translators 2013-10-02
<henninge> NÃ¶, hilft nix.
<henninge> Jetzt geht es wieder. War wohl ein Routing-Problem...
<henninge> Oh sorry, wrong channel ;-)
<dpm> :)
<UbuPhillup> hihi
<mpt> Hi, is there an easy way for me to find the longest translation (most characters) of the verb "Search"?
<dpm> mpt, if you know a package that contains them, I can perhaps download all .PO files for all languages and you can grep through them?
<dpm> probably unity or the home scope package
<mpt> dpm, I don't know if Unity actually contains "Search" as a string by itself. (It does oafishly use the string "Search your computer and online sources".)
<mpt> aha
<mpt> dpm, the software-center package has "Searchâ¦" in its Edit menu. That should do.
<dpm> mpt, sorry, got into calls. You can bzr branch the software-center code and grep for Search in the .po files -> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntuone-control-tower/software-center/trunk/files/head:/po/
<dpm> they seem not to be up to date (2009!), but there are plenty of languages there already
<dpm> and the Search string is in there
<dpm> msggrep from the gettext package might provide a cleaner output than grep for this
#ubuntu-translators 2013-10-03
<Mirv> Pawel asked for UIFE regarding renaming Search plugins -> Dash plugins? I (as a translator) feel it's ok, just not sure if I can answer to the mailing list with that hat on.
<Mirv> well I answered, mentioned using of my translator hat :)
#ubuntu-translators 2015-10-03
<goto__> ohai
<goto__> someone online?
<goto__> Our group will soon start to improve the translation for XFCE and we would like to help by providing the translations to the rest of the community
<goto__> we need the translations soon and momentarily I'm  not sure how fast the translations will get into our Xubuntu machines if we work on the official translation webends
#ubuntu-translators 2018-10-04
<scootergrisen> How can i search for a strings in all translations for a specific language without downloading any file?
<scootergrisen> Like i want to find the string "All Windows" but i dont know where it might be
