#ubuntu-uk 2011-10-03
<Azelphur> Anyone know why emerald has been pulled from 11.10?
<ali1234> because it was merged back into compiz years ago
<Azelphur> how do I use it? :o
<Azelphur> ali1234: is that compiz-window-decorator?
<ali1234> probably yeah
<Azelphur> ali1234: any idea how to set the theme?
<ali1234> no
<Azelphur> haha, other people in #ubuntu+1 running into the same "No more multi X support for you" issue I had earlier
<Azelphur> Any packagey people care to help me with this one? http://pastebin.com/NCuR9Yp4
<ali1234> gtk theme formats changed with gtk3
<ali1234> all old stuff is now broken
<ali1234> gtk-update-icon-cache --help
<ali1234> -t, --ignore-theme-index     Don't check for the existence of index.theme
<ali1234> put that in the control ^
<ali1234> find where it runs gtk-update-icon-cache and add -t after it
<Azelphur> so it's a packaging bug I should report upstream for a start :P
<ali1234> yes
<Azelphur> besides that I didn't understand much of what you said
<Azelphur> lol
<Azelphur> but I'll send that upstream *shrug*
<czajkowski> morning all
<Girly-Girl> morning
<Girly-Girl> you up early?
<AlanBell> morning all
<MooDoo> mornign
<TheOpenSourcerer> morning everyone.
<MartijnVdS> \o TheOpenSourcerer
<Laney> guten morgen
<TheOpenSourcerer> My Oneric lappy has gone all weird. It boots OK but I get no launcher and the top menu/bar has the nautilus menu on it.  If I open a new nautilus window it has it's own menu... Known issue?
<TheOpenSourcerer> I can't get to any of the lenses nor the indicators etc.
<oimon> TheOpenSourcerer: tried unity --reset ?
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<TheOpenSourcerer> oimon: Thanks (CTL+ALT F1) and trying...
<JamesTait> Morning all!
<oimon> another lovely october day in the uK
<Laney> bit grey here sadly
<Laney> given that the weather said 27Â° laterâ¦
<selinuxium> Morning all  o/
<dogmatic69> o/
<Girly-Girl> Morning Â£Â£Â£Â£Â£Â£Â£Â£Â£Â£Â£
<gord> i ordered ice-cream to deal with the heat of late! so i think the current grey sky is my fault
<AlanBell> #blamegord
<davmor2> morning all
<MooDoo> morning davmor2
<davmor2> morning MooDoo nice weekend :D
<MooDoo> davmor2: was at work
<davmor2> MooDoo: I know
<MooDoo> davmor2: in that case....bugger off ;)
<davmor2> MooDoo: sorry couldn't resist :D
<MooDoo> davmor2: it's on, i've got a <insert something horrible here> with your name on it :D
 * Laney wolf whistles
 * MooDoo acts all coy, awwww shucks Laney ;)
<davmor2> MooDoo: You had a play with you lens yet?
<MooDoo> davmor2: don't get it until the 21st, it's a 3 day hire
<davmor2> MooDoo: Ahh okay
<MooDoo> davmor2: looking forward to it though
<MooDoo> davmor2: nice BIG lens :D
<oimon> had a 30 minute discussion in the car on saturday with the missis about which star wars characters are most like ourselves
<oimon> the advantages of being married to someone who's quietly geeky
<popey> my wife isn't remotely geeky
<oimon> do you still have those discussions?
<popey> I am responsible for anything in the house with a plug on it, she is responsible for things that eat.
<popey> no
<popey> I am also responsible for removing wasps.
<GirlyGirl> popey: Removing wasps lol
<popey> had to do that last night
<popey> wifey went to bed then came back downstairs
<popey> i went up to save the day
<popey> batted the wasp with ipad :D
<popey> (multi-purpose device)
<GirlyGirl> popey: With ipad you serious?
<oimon> have you heard the theory that a conker in the corner of the room stops spiders? is that for real or just gypsy tales?
<popey> yes
 * gord wonders if there is an app for accurate wasp vs ipad battling 
<popey> never heard that oimon
<gord> if that were true, there would be no spiders outside surely
<Laney> bet you could simulate a wasp with an ipad
<oimon> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/science-news/6255510/Spiders-v-conkers-are-arachnids-really-scared-of-horse-chestnuts.html
<Laney> and therefore it could tell you exactly where to swat
<popey> spanked the jasper across the room and it landed on the floor, picked it up, lobbed it out the window
<GirlyGirl> !best > GirlyGirl
<lubotu3> GirlyGirl, please see my private message
<oimon> popey: buy a mug with vim reference guide on it
<popey> i had considered that
<popey> wish oneiric didn't keep suspending
<popey> can't leave my desktop on at home
<GirlyGirl> popey: There is bound to be an option to disable that
<jpds> popey: Enable Wake-on-LAN?
<popey> GirlyGirl: its broken
<popey> jpds: haha :D
<jpds> popey: Worked for me two years ago; ssh into the router and send the magic packet.
<oimon> weird, i have an oneiric box and it stays on all the time
<popey> bug 854624
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 854624 in gnome-power-manager (Ubuntu) "[oneiric] Gnome3/Unity session fails to apply suspend/hibernate parameters, set by "Power Settings" dialog" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/854624
<popey> hmm, i dont know the mac address for my desktop
<oimon> i've noticed that screenshots of unity where the wallpaper is predominantly blue look 10x better than the default
<Laney> it is https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-settings-daemon/+bug/860485
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 860485 in gnome-settings-daemon (Ubuntu Oneiric) "bad default setting: suspend after 30min when plugged in" [Critical,Fix released]
<Laney> & https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-control-center/+bug/864479
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 864479 in gnome-control-center (Ubuntu Oneiric) "System goes to hibernate or suspend even when set to "Don't suspend"" [Critical,Confirmed]
<oimon> ah, i haven't updated for a week..
<oimon> must be why i wasn't affected
 * popey installs etherwake
 * popey notes arp shows a box which currently isnt up
<popey> that might be my desktop
<oimon> ddwrt prob has dhcp logs?
<bigcalm> popey: how's the modem only setup going?
<bigcalm> I'm tempted to go that route myself now
<popey> bigcalm: working well, i now have only one AP
<popey> also the wndr3700 running ddwrt is functionally way more useful than the crap in the "super" hub
<Monsterwizard> did anyone answer my question
<Monsterwizard> ?
<Monsterwizard> Habe you failed a test...but still became successful in life in general
<MooDoo> failed what test?
<oimon> test of character? academic test? life is full of tests
<oimon> especially if you are married
<oimon> "what do you think of this dress?"
<AlanBell> [13:30] <Monsterwizard> when is it wabbit season?
<AlanBell> [13:33] <AlanBell> I think that opens just after the haggis season starts
<MooDoo> oimon: "do this dress make me look fat"
<Monsterwizard> When did I say that D:
<MooDoo> Monsterwizard: you've not told us what test yet :) lol
<DJones> MooDoo: It matches your eyes :)
<Monsterwizard> ohhh strings and languages
<Monsterwizard> kinda like logic
<Monsterwizard> D:
<davmor2> oimon: I get away with meh whatever do you like it?  if so wear it.
<davmor2> bigcalm: you all set for Thursday then Dude?
<popey> can someone on ubuntu do me a favour ? (I am at work on windows)
<popey> In firefox... > Edit -> Preferences -> Advanced -> Encryption -> View Certificates
<popey> is CACert listed?
<gord> popey, nope
<popey> bah
<popey> http://packages.ubuntu.com/oneiric/all/ca-certificates/filelist indicates it is there
<gord> there is a lot of them, let me check again
<gord> nah not there
<gord> i'd assume it needs to be in mozilla/ to show up in firefox
<oimon> why do bacon sandwiches include the rind/fat? is it laziness on behalf of the person cooking it , or do some people actaully enjoy eating the fat?
<gordonjcp> because magic pig is awesome
<gordonjcp> and must include the fat
<oimon> apart from anything else, the texture of fat ruins a sandwich
<gordonjcp> lies
<bigcalm> I would reply to davmor2, but he's buggered off. Humf
<bigcalm> The fat add the important parts of the flavour complex of bacon. When cooked, the dripping should be included with the meal
<oimon> that may explain why my BMI is considered underweight
<MartijnVdS> oimon: that, or the constant running after users with blunt/heavy objects :P
<directhex> oimon, some like the fat. consider streaky bacon.
 * oimon searches until he finds a website that says 18.4 BMI is heathly
<oimon> i think it is rather flawed system
<gord> huh, i just had to use open office and it was a fairly pleasant experience
<oimon> my mother in law has been using it for work purposes on her laptop for last couple of years and didn't realise that it wasn't MS office. the point is, she didn't need to.
<Laney> she hasn't had to exchange documents with ms office using people then?
<oimon> Laney: she saves as .doc* but we didn't have an in depth discussion of why it saved as odt and ods by default. i wonder if i can change that default...
<directhex> vaguely modern msoffice opens & saves odt and ods.
<oimon> i never knew that.
<oimon> my life improved drastically since i stopped supporting windows
<oimon> only occasionally do i have to dip my toe in
<Monsterwizard> oh another one
<Monsterwizard> You're too good for windows :P
<MooDoo> non of my friends want to migrate from windows, so i do a lot of windows stuff
<oimon> MooDoo: do you get paid in food or beer for your troubles?
<MooDoo> oimon: yeah beer :)
<oimon> my friends used to think they were doing me a favour by asking me to fix their machines all night
<Monsterwizard> why would they think that?
<oimon> Monsterwizard: maybe they are using the flawed logic that X likes computers, therefore he will enjoy fixing my malware/lack of backups issue in his spare time
<MooDoo> i'm getting it now with photoggraphy, MooDoo likes photography, paul can you just :)
<oimon> "photograph my wedding for free? it'll be good for your portfolio innit?"
<MooDoo> oimon: just kinda had one of them, not free but a sister of a mate :)
<Monsterwizard> ok so people make fun of computer science grads
<Monsterwizard> :(
<Monsterwizard> i hate that
<Monsterwizard> Someone said to me "Just ask me any question I did the A+ so I can answer any question"
<Monsterwizard> mocking compsci esstentiallu
<directhex> ask them to explain the TCP sliding window mechanism
<Monsterwizard> Wait...the exam guide for that course isn't that big
<Monsterwizard> about the size of one of my text books
<Monsterwizard> pfff wanna bees
<oimon> Monster: are you phd student?
<Monsterwizard> nope
<Monsterwizard> how come you ask?
<oimon> undergrad?
<Monsterwizard> yyep
<aquarius> OK. I have a new machine (thanks popey!) and there are two disks: a 160GB disk with no data on it at all, and a 1TB disk with loads of movies and tv and music and etc on it. I am trying to work out how to set up the machine. I do not have enough space to back up everything on the 1TB disk (so it can't be wiped). Suggestions, please :)
<aquarius> frex: should I install Ubuntu on the 160GB disk and then just mount the 1TB disk at /mnt/stuff? Should I use LVM? If I LVM, should I LVM across both disks? If I do that, can I put all the data on the 1TB disk into an LVM thingy without deleting it all and then copying it all back on afterwards?
<MartijnVdS> aquarius: I did that
<MartijnVdS> aquarius: install Ubuntu on the 160GB, then used a separate disk as /home (which is where I all put all my stuff)
<MartijnVdS> didn't use LVM
<oimon> aquarius: how many users will be using it?
<aquarius> oimon, one (me). It will, most of the time, not have anyone sitting in front of it: it's a server, which will be headless
<aquarius> so its primary purpose is to serve out files over upnp and so on.
<danfish> aquarius: wot MartijnVdS said sounds good
<MartijnVdS> aquarius: LVM is only useful if you expect to run out of diskspace and add disks (instead of replacing the disk with a larger one and throwing out/recycling the old one)
<oimon> lvm adds 15% overhead AFAIK, doesn't sound necessary with your setup.
<gord> aquarius, just a warning if you have a different drive, u1 won't let you share anything outside your home directory no matter how much i bug you guys about that ;)
<MartijnVdS> gord: it's called 'incentive' :P
<aquarius> gord, you've read the list of reasons why, right? ;)
<gord> aquarius, yeah, i'v started enough arguments about it ;) but yeah just a warning, if you want all your music in /media/stuff like i did, you then can't have it in u1. so you'll end up using your home directory anyway
<aquarius> MartijnVdS, oimon, danfish, that's useful info, thanks
<aquarius> gord, ah, I do not have 1TB of videos in U1. My *music* is already in U1, which is on my laptop :)
<oimon> then setup a regular rsync backup of the 1TB drive :)
<directhex> .
<aquarius> oimon, the reason it isn't backed up isn't because I don't know how, it's because I don't have 1TB of space anywhere else :P
<aquarius> ok. time to work out how to put a second drive in a microserver :P
<oimon> with backups, i imagine that i have lost the data on the drive. then i say..what would i pay right now to get all that data back?
<popey> aquarius: pro-tip
<diplo> aquarius, Simplest thing ever :)
<popey> the screws are in the door
<popey> as is the tool
<diplo> One thing i didn't notice though after////
<diplo> bah popey beat me to it
<diplo> !!!
<popey> make sure you get the drive up the right way in the caddy :D
<diplo> Searched out of my box of screws, then as i was sliding the second drive in i noticed a huge line of them
<aquarius> oimon, that's why that drive only contains things like ripped videos. Actual important data -- documents and photos and music and the like, which I don't have discs of -- is in U1 from my laptop.
<oimon> :D
<oimon> ugh the windows in my office allow bluebottles in but they can't get out. i just had 10 on the window.
<aquarius> ok, which one of you has stolen my set of mini screwdrivers?
<aquarius> hey, there is a screwdriver in the door too. Nice.
<directhex> <popey> as is the tool
<aquarius> directhex, yeah, but I needed the screwdriver to get the drive out of the old caddy :)
<aquarius> I'll say this: server people know how to make their lives simpler. Slide out the caddy by pressing a nice button; screws and screwdriver already in the door... good stuff.
<aquarius> the terrifying moment where I say: sure, go ahead and format that disk... and hope that I picked the right one. Pretty sure I chose the right one, but I always worry that my finger slipped or something :)
<oimon> be careful to install openssh-server on the server OS before tidying it into your cabinet. for some bizarre reason ssh is not installed by default on ubuntu server
<aquarius> ooh, sensible advice and no mistake
<MartijnVdS> Is there a way to install all dependencies of a package, but not the package itself?
<aquarius> install teh package and then remove it? :)
<MartijnVdS> aquarius: yes that's my workaround
<MartijnVdS> but I was wondering if there was a Better WayÂ®
<aquarius> graarrgh, I typed my username in instead of my actual name. again
<directhex> aquarius isn't your real name?
<aquarius> heh :)
<Laney> aptitude install ~rD package
<Laney> maybe
<MartijnVdS> Laney: No :|
<Laney> "~RD"
<Laney> what?
<MartijnVdS> Laney: it'll install EVERYTHING
<Laney> you mean i forgot the quotes
<Laney> http://paste.debian.net/133843/
<MartijnVdS> Laney: no that's reverse-depends
<MartijnVdS> I want to do the equivalent of apt-get install X; dpkg --purge X
<MartijnVdS> oh well, I'll just stick to that :)
<Laney> http://paste.debian.net/133845/
<Laney> what am I not getting?
<aquarius> yay installed
<aquarius> hm, what do I need to install to make the machine advertise itself to the local network as machinename.local? libnss-mdns ?
<directhex> advertise itself? avahi-daemon
<directhex> consume .local addresses? libnss-mdns
<aquarius> installing.
<aquarius> chrs
<aquarius> and working, yay
<oimon> irc at it's finest :)
<directhex> cake for all!
<AlanBell> nom
 * oimon wonders if creating etherpad lite notes with random names > 8 chars counts as secure
<gord> its publicly available, so no ;)
<oimon> it's the equivalent of inifinite retries available on a passworded email account :)
<aquarius> now, the eternal question: do I mount the big drive under $HOME or not? hm.
<gord> great, just installed dconf-tools on my server. that was smart
<gord> i should "alias apt=get=echo "YOU ARE ON YOUR SERVER GORD, STOP BEIGN DUMB"; apt-get" on my server or something
<aquarius> gord, did it offering to pull in all of X as a dependency not clue you in? :)
<Laney> have different passwords
<bigcalm> SuperHub now in modem only mode and I'm back using my Linksys router :)
<gord> aquarius, have you not being using oneiric lately? doing anything causes ubuntu to download 200mb of updates ;)
<aquarius> gord, I have not. :)
<gord> woot, got rhythmbox setup to load my u1 music, can't use banshee anymore
<gord> slightly shocked we are shipping banshee at all
<Laney> why don't you file a request to have it removed from the archive
<gord> by shipping i mean on the cd :P
<oimon> btw have they done anything with ryhythmbox since 10.04?
<gord> its gtk3 now
<gord> it continues to play music, not sure what else you'd need
<hamitron> facebook integration... if everything else is anything to go by ;/
<Azelphur> Anyone know how to change default applications used in xfce?
<oimon> it doesn't actually like my music library
<hamitron> oimon, bad taste? :/
<Laney> we should make ubuntu user accounts equivalent to facebook accounts
<Laney> how cool would that be!!!!
<oimon> i don't understand what that means
<oimon> killed rhythmbox and songs rushed from 275-366...now stuck again...think i'll stick with clementine :D
<Laney> like spotify does
<oimon> "Spotify changed its registration process so that all new users are required to have a Facebook profile." ohh
<Laney> you could have all of your ubuntu usage show up in the ticker thing and compare with your friends and and and
<oimon> i spy the end is nigh for spotify
<BigRedS> Nah, several people are quite happy to link it to facebook
<directhex> Laney, what happened to giving achievements for doing mundane tasks in ubuntu?
<Laney> a perfick opportunity to realise that dream
<diplo> Don't have a FB account so i would be screwed
<diplo> I know quite a few people who don't tbh, and quite a few who have cancelled/deleted profiles
<BigRedS> yeah, but the majority will either be perfectly happy to, or will just create an empty fb profile for the purpose
<diplo> Im guessing FB has some integration with hotmail
<diplo> MS
<BigRedS> well, the two have had a long-standing relationship over search and maps and the like, so I'd imagine so
<diplo> As I created a test account before i deleted mine for some dev work and I recently got a friend request on it
<diplo> Not a lot of info to identify me
<hamitron> I will personally not use anything that requires farcebook
<hamitron> ;/
<hamitron> in fact, that stuff ubuntu added with 10.04, for some account even put me off
<oimon> like?
<hamitron> Ubuntu One was it?
<hamitron> idk, didn't use it
<hamitron> but didn't like it even been there
<oimon> i use ubuntu one but my missis doesn't have an account
 * popey hugs BigRedS 
<hamitron> it probably has some interesting features I don't use
<oimon> i love the idea of u1 and hope it grows into even more useful tool
<oimon> tomboy notes integration with my android phone is one of my faves
<hamitron> I just see an OS and software, as an OS and software..... not something I should be creating accounts to login online to
<hamitron> and including "services" with an OS, is not something I like
<oimon> i only really dislike when they are enforced, and i suspect the end product will be malevolent in some way
<hamitron> MS did it with MSN, IE, etc
<hamitron> doesn't gain my respect
<hamitron> although, I recognise it is a good way to advertise ofc
<hamitron> oimon, I guess none of the stuff I speak of is actually enforced
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> but it is still home grown bloatware
<oimon> i tend to think most decisions fb makes are malevolent..in order to extract more data from the user, but the u1 stuff is very useful
<hamitron> oh, I don't consider u1 in the same league as fb
<hamitron> :)
<oimon> if you like to hop between machines regularly, keeping applications in sync etc is great
<hamitron> yep
<hamitron> but why include it with the OS?
<hamitron> it just felt like it was included, with a lot of "pushing", to get people to use it
<oimon> because it's really useful.
<directhex> so there's a framework for it. so you don't need to re-enter 100 apps' settings
<directhex> webos does this - stores stuff on pam.com servers
<oimon> and so that other apps will use it as the default online sync space too
<hamitron> that is pushing it as the standard service for such use
<oimon> there's nothing to be suspicious of though
<hamitron> no, but it still overwhelmed the menu
<hamitron> kind of like MS having the Windows Messenger icons all over, with it auto starting
<directhex> internet is speeding up. up to 8m down :)
<hamitron> nice
<hamitron> :)
<directhex> youtube actually downloading at faster than realtime, so it's usable again
<hamitron> I can dream
<hamitron> ;)
<oimon> my mother in law has a dog which actually watches youtube vids
<oimon> when i get my tablet pc out it jumps on the lap and does the sideways doggie head thing
<hamitron> better be careful there are no vids with good looking dogs
<hamitron> ;)
<oimon> i've never seen a pooch watch tv so actively
<Azelphur> what's the name of the Ubuntu installer package?
<Azelphur> getting a bug up for that installing the wrong driver bug
<oimon> !info ubiquity
<lubotu3> ubiquity (source: ubiquity): Ubuntu live CD installer. In component main, is optional. Version 2.6.10 (natty), package size 4025 kB, installed size 15068 kB
<Azelphur> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/865473 there we go, one new bug report \o/
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 865473 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Installer installs wrong driver for GTX 570" [Undecided,New]
<oimon> wow, your gfx card cost more than my computer
<Azelphur> haha
<Azelphur> oimon: I've had it for nearly a year now, too
<gord> thus, its horribly out of date, prolly gets 3fps at 320x240 in crysis 10
<Azelphur> hehe
<Azelphur> gord actually as of recently, the games are moving much slower than the hardware
<Azelphur> if this was 2002 or something I'd agree with you, but currently the games arn't moving while the PC's are
<gord> eh, depends on the game
<Azelphur> my PC is still overspecced for any game currently in existence, and probably will be for another year or so at least
<gord> i don't expect to be able to play the new metro game
<diplo> I'd love a high spec PC again tbh
<diplo> Next thing to save up for
<diplo> Something to play current games, but also something good at ripping / re-encoding video
<Azelphur> gord "Optimum system requirements" (Aka the ones to run it on all max) Core i7, GTX 470 or above, 8GB+ RAM
<Azelphur> so my system eats the Optimum system requirements
<Azelphur> gord ^ for metro 2033, my machine will have no problem with it :)
<gord> yeah, they came out with some optimum requirements for the last one, my machine above those could barely run it at high resolutions
<gord> oh wait thats for the old game, where did you find that?
<gord> no no i'm saying the NEXT one
<ali1234> metro 2033 is 18 months old
<ali1234> also, yet another fps game
<gord> Azelphur, talking about this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zkuDGN-aQgA&feature=relmfu - the super pretty new one
<hamitron> GTS450 or GTX460 is fine also, if you are not so hardcore ;)
<ali1234> BF3 demo still has the best graphics i've ever seen
<Azelphur> gord you'll like this one :)
<Azelphur> the metro last night system requirements are lower than the 2033 requirements.
<gord> well yeah, its coming out for the consoles, it'll scale down,
<gord> if i was gonna play it at that kind of spec, i'd play it on a console
<Azelphur> yea, that's what everyone is doing though, everyone is focusing more on optimization and less on using the latest available hardware
<Azelphur> so the hardware is moving much faster than the games to use it
<ali1234> it's not because they want to ship for consoles
<hamitron> I was looking at hardware, even it is slowing down somewhat
<hamitron> :/
<ali1234> it's because they have no idea how to use the power
<Azelphur> ali1234: and even if they did, I think it makes no marketing sense to actually use it
<gord> eh? nooo
<ali1234> they can't add more detail until people get 4k monitors
<hamitron> my i3 has dropped Â£5 in about a year
<gord> we are no where near the point of not being able to use the power of latest gpus
<Azelphur> gord I'd like to see a game that can 10% a 6990, lol
<ali1234> yes we are
<ali1234> and the reason is it simply costs too much to design visual assets that take advantage of it
<Azelphur> ^ for minimal profits because not enough people actually have the hardware
<hamitron> deving for high end is insane :/
<gord> you obviously have no idea ;)
<ali1234> that's the real reason all these games are set in dark tunnels with the same super high res concrete texture repeated over and over and over and over
<ali1234> now they could up the resolution on that concrete texture by a factor of 10
<ali1234> but nobody would even see it unless they stopped and walked right up to a wall and pulled out a magnifying glass
<gord> no they couldn't, you'd obliterate the texture cache very quickly
<gord> things would get orders of magnitude slower
<ali1234> things would get orders of magnitude slower AND it would not improve the visual quality of the game at all
<ali1234> maxing out the GPU is not hard
<hamitron> and it would limit your audience
<ali1234> actually getting benefit from doing so is the hard poart
<hamitron> it will be interesting to see what is done with next gen stuff
<ali1234> i would take a guess that it will involve dark tunnels, contrete, and rust
<hamitron> more cores etc, when they struggle to use what they have now
<ali1234> and space marines shooting aliens of course
<hamitron> ofc
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> F1 2011 is pretty
<hamitron> :D
<hamitron> I think this years obsession is reflections
<hamitron> :/
<czajkowski> aloha
<diplo> evening all
<Monsterwizard> I feel better know
<Monsterwizard> I pwned one of these +A people
<Monsterwizard> I showed them what Computer Science actually is!
<AlanBell> not pwning people presumably
<diplo> :)
<diplo> I did A+ course, learnt nothing really
<diplo> Waste of money imo
<popey> Evening all.
<czajkowski> popey: ello
<popey> pip pip
<AlanBell> what sort of takeaway should I get?
<brobostigon> indian :)
<popey> AlanBell: wife away?
<AlanBell> no, she wants me to go get takeaway
<diplo> Hmm, I've wanted an Indian in a long time, don't fancy one on my own
<diplo> Lasagne and chips here
<popey> i have reheated ribs from the bbq yesterday
<popey> :D
<diplo> I had ribs on Saturday, never really liked ribs but changed my  mind now
<brobostigon> ihad jerk chicken yesterday for lunch, very yummy, :)
<AlanBell> going for chinese
<AlanBell> and getting ribs ;)
<brobostigon> :)
<brobostigon> yummy.
 * gord wishes everyone would shut up about ribs =\
<diplo> :p
 * brobostigon is almost fearful of bones in his meat, so doesnt really like that kind of thing,
<gordonjcp> mmmm, ribs
<popey> ribs arent so much "bones in meat" as "bones barely holding the meat together"
<popey> if done well
<brobostigon> exactly, if it was my decision, it would be the meat holding the bones together.
<brobostigon> prefferable no bone/s at all.
<popey> At disney in florida they have a place where you can buy "Alien legs"
<popey> leg of pork, cooked to perfection
<popey> you get given the whole thing
<popey> bone in
<brobostigon> sounds yummy.
<brobostigon> that would ne ecceptable.
<brobostigon> be*
<popey> ok, turkey, not pork
<popey> http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_A2aESwKKs7k/TK52NUxsayI/AAAAAAAAA4c/lW2jlT1ifnc/s1600/TurkeyLegKee.jpg
<brobostigon> ah.
<popey> YUM YUM YUM
<brobostigon> hmmm.
<popey> cooked to perfection
<gord> not green :(
<brobostigon> popey: looks very primitive,
<popey> its cooked meat. what more do you need? :D
<popey> a napkin maybe
<brobostigon> umm, and a plate, and a blade.
<gord> thats not really how they do things
<brobostigon> a blade, meat, and a plate, i am a happy bunny.
<brobostigon> and good beer. :)
 * brobostigon pretmds to be henry viii-th
<brobostigon> v111*
<brobostigon> th*
<ali1234> here's a funny bug that is trivial for someone to confirm, if they have two monitors
<ali1234> bug 865701
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 865701 in unity (Ubuntu) "Maximized windows can be accidentally closed from wrong monitor." [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/865701
<pr0ph3t> hi all, I have a problem with the nm-applet on Ubuntu 11.10. The Mobile Broadband option does not appear. It has appeared briefly a couple of updates ago, but not anymore. When it did appear it all worked fine and I could connect to the Mobile Broadband
<pr0ph3t> is there a way to connect to the mobile broadband without using the nm-applet?
<pr0ph3t> also I cannot pull out the usb stick as it's an internal one. Any suggestions?
<bigcalm> What have I missed?
<shauno> man.  hope I never have to deal with the met police again.  bloody useless :/
<hamitron> :/
<Lcawte> Anything Ubuntu related? Wouldn't be suprised if in that case :p
 * hamitron sets "bloody useless" to status confirmed
<shauno> long story short, when they say they'll call you back, they're lying
<hamitron> I can't work out why the police as a whole, are so useless and rude
<hamitron> :/
#ubuntu-uk 2011-10-04
<knightwise> morning everyone
<AlanBell> morning all
<MartijnVdS> \o
 * AlanBell downloads ubuntu 11.10 beta2 server
<AlanBell> going to install Alfresco 4 on it
<AlanBell> download complete :)
<MartijnVdS> you need a slower internet connection :P
<HazRPG> I need a faster one!
<shauno> good news; egypt is famous for it's incredibly fast domestic pipes ;)
<HazRPG> :/
<HazRPG> shauno: at the end of the day, even though net-wise it'll suck... my mum still needs me over there really
<AlanBell> where in egypt?
<shauno> I almost made a very crass joke, then realised I've been spending far too much time in the wrong channels :/  so I'll go back to trying to turn our call logging server into a UT99 server :)
<HazRPG> besides, I'm sure I'll be able to wangle something together, as long as I'm getting at least what I have now - I'll be happy ^_^
<HazRPG> AlanBell: Cairo :)
<HazRPG> AlanBell: Well, Giza really... but its still part of Greater Cairo ^_^
<AlanBell> have they removed the internet off switch now?
<HazRPG> AlanBell: heh, been back on for a long while now ^_^
<HazRPG> I think they only turned it off for like a couple of weeks (possibly a month) or so
<AlanBell> yes, I was just wondering if the capability to turn it off has gone
<HazRPG> AlanBell: well... Mubarak isn't there anymore... if that's what you mean, Egypt doesn't really own an off switch... it was just a case of "Mubarak says, Mubarak gets..." sort of scenario
<AlanBell> kim0 (Ahmed Kamal) the ubuntu cloud chap is based in cairo
<HazRPG> AlanBell: cool :)
<HazRPG> IIRC, there was a chart released somewhere, that showed when the DNS servers for Egypt were taken offline... and between each ISP there was like a 3-5 minute delay between them... so officials/newspapers/etc all think that it was basically Mubarak - or others who worked for him, basically going round ringing them and telling them to cut everything somehow
<knightwise> morning everyone
<HazRPG> knightwise: morning dude
<knightwise> hey HazRPG
<knightwise> how are you today
<HazRPG> knightwise: not too bad thanks, how's things your end?
<AlanBell> I am off to the Institute of Directors in a bit for a meeting with some Redhat peeps
<knightwise> doing fine HazRPG ,
<knightwise> looking around for some hackintosh tutorials
<knightwise> been running Mint on my macbook air , now i feel like i need to run osx on my pc netbook
<knightwise> just to balance out the universe
<AlanBell> kim0: o/
<kim0> AlanBell: hi there
<kim0> HazRPG: Alan was just saying you're moving to Giza ?
<kim0> Welcome to Sunny land :)
<HazRPG> kim0: Yeah, I'll be moving there in Nov ^_^
<HazRPG> Nearish shara el-harram :)
<kim0> HAHA
<kim0> HazRPG: so you've been there before ?
<HazRPG> knightwise: heh, so your mac is your linux, and your pc is your mac (or how you want it to be...)? :P
<HazRPG> kim0: yeah, mother is Egyptian :P
<kim0> HazRPG: lemme guess, English teacher ?
<kim0> HazRPG: Oh ok .. so you know your way around
<HazRPG> indeed ;)
<kim0> kewl then .. ping me if you'll need anything in there, will be glad to help
<HazRPG> kim0: I lived in bulaa' da crur for about 3 months each summer because my grandmother lived there
<kim0> you probably know Cairo better than I do then :)
<HazRPG> kim0: 3rif 3raby kaman ;P
<kim0> HazRPG: m3ady
<HazRPG> :P
<kim0> :D
<kim0> you're not a clueless guy in cairo then :) not worried about you .. have fun :)
<HazRPG> kim0: hehe, thanks... you too ^_^
<kim0> cheers
<diplo> Morning all
<HazRPG> diplo: mornin' dude
<knightwise> HazRPG: indeed , mah mac runs linux , ma pc needs to run mac
<HazRPG> knightwise: I was messing around with OSX in a VM a few weeks back
<knightwise> HazRPG: did you get it working ?
<HazRPG> seemed to work straight off the bat
<knightwise> did you use a special distro ?
<HazRPG> oh, no wait... I think I had to tweak a few things here n there to get it to actually load up...
<knightwise> so you ran it in virtualbox ?
<HazRPG> knightwise: not that I'm aware... but it could be
<HazRPG> knightwise: yeah VBox 4.0 (just recently updated to 4.1, and still seems to work fine in that too)
<HazRPG> knightwise: helps if you set stuff up to Emulate EFI in the options, but works like a charm :)
<knightwise> so , virtualbox 4.1 and a plain and simple snow leopard install cd ?
<HazRPG> knightwise: yup :)
<knightwise> ok , i'll see if i have the latest version running on my server
<MooDoo> hello all
<knightwise> now to find out how to unisntall the old version in Fedora :=(
<HazRPG> knightwise: iirc, I think "technically" support for OSX isn't in VBox anymore... because of licence-rights, etc... but I noticed that picking "Mac OS X Server" as the OS Type, seems to do the same job
<knightwise> ok  , trying to remove the old version from my server now
<HazRPG> knightwise: cool
<knightwise> not obvious via the commandline so i see
<HazRPG> removing it?
<knightwise> yep
<HazRPG> shouldn't yum just be able to get rid of it?
<knightwise> yeah , but yum doesnt appear to find it
<HazRPG> knightwise: package name will be "virtualbox-4.0" if its 4.0 you have on there
<HazRPG> etc
<knightwise> yeah , i have that =) its the old one i ccent get off
<HazRPG> 3.2?
<HazRPG> virtualbox-ose...
<HazRPG> (those are the only package names I can think of)
<knightwise> 4.0
<knightwise> got it
<HazRPG> knightwise: just install the new one, if removing the old one is a pain... cos the new one will automatically remove the old one before updating
<knightwise> ah its workign
<knightwise> had some version conflicts
<HazRPG> ah
<HazRPG> knightwise: brb, gimmie a nudge if you need any help ^_^
<HazRPG> won't be long
<knightwise> thanx HazRPG
<knightwise> popped in the cd
<knightwise> assigned 2 gigs of ram
<knightwise> 20 gigs of harddrive
<czajkowski> aloha
<MooDoo> morning czajkowski
<knightwise> HazRPG: did you assign 2 processors to the VM ?
<knightwise> HazRPG: what settings did you adjust ?
<knightwise> +msg HazRPG
<HazRPG> knightwise: back
<HazRPG> knightwise: I'll have a look now
<knightwise> thanx =)
<HazRPG> knightwise: right... lets see here...
<HazRPG> knightwise: Enabled EFI... although if the disc doesn't boot or see your hdd, turn this off...
<HazRPG> knightwise: processor I have set to 1, although I don't see anything wrong with having this at 2 if you can support 2, with an execution cap of 100% (again you could change this)
<knightwise> yep , check
<knightwise> video memory to 128mb
<knightwise> Chipset ICH9 ?
<HazRPG> I just used standard IDE controller, but I'm sure if things are playing up you could use SATA instead
<knightwise> ok
<HazRPG> knightwise: yeah ICH9
<knightwise> and IO apic remains enabled
<HazRPG> yeah
<knightwise> ok , lets give it a spin
<HazRPG> knightwise: *fingers crossed* :)
<knightwise> thanx , holdon , little remote keyboard issue ,
<HazRPG> hmm?
<knightwise> virtualbox says i must use right ctrl key to disable capturing of the keyboard
<knightwise> mac doesnt HAVE a right control key :)
<gord> the mac version of virtualbox is saying that?
<bigcalm> Hello World!
<gord> because otherwise i think your keyboard is deficient ;)
<bigcalm> davmor2: I think so, yes. Though you still haven't told me which bit of the complex I am meant to attend :)
<knightwise> no , its virtualbox on my linux server :=)
<knightwise> im accessing it via teamviewer
<popey> convoluted knightwise is convoluted
<popey> you can configure the key
<knightwise> lol popey i know :)
<oimon> knightwise: sounds like you need to run all that through a vnc connection too :)
<knightwise> I have slider issues :)
<knightwise> my server runs virtualbox
<popey> and rdp
<knightwise> its headless
<JamesTait> Buongiorno a tutto!
<knightwise> so i access it using teamviewer
<knightwise> from a mac
<knightwise> runnign linux
<knightwise> how sick is that :)
<popey> oh
<popey> really
<knightwise> popey , i've been meaning to ask you : you ever wanna come ont the Knightcast podcast some day ?
<popey> yeah
<popey> if you record on a day when I'm not at work
<knightwise> i am doing a live show the 21st (on a friday)
<knightwise> in the morning
<HazRPG> knightwise: ah you can change that dude
<knightwise> HazRPG: doing it now :)
<HazRPG> knightwise: heh, seems popey suggested the same thing ^_^
<shauno> I usually have capslock bound to ctrl, but I think that registers as left control still
<knightwise> HazRPG: it kinda stops booting in the efi shell
<knightwise> so i suppose i turn that off ,
<knightwise> ?
<knightwise> oops , forgot to point out the dvvd
<knightwise> lets try again
<HazRPG> knightwise: yeah
<knightwise> ok , bunch of jibberish on the screen ending with "system uptime"
<HazRPG> knightwise: hmm, I think there was a lifehacker post somewhere that I followed that showed you how to do this, I'll see if I can find it again ^_^
<HazRPG> knightwise: http://lifehacker.com/5583650/run-mac-os-x-in-virtualbox-on-windows
<knightwise> checking :=)
<HazRPG> knightwise: ignore the fact that its showing you how to install it on windows - cos the steps are very similar to any version of vbox :)
<knightwise> ok, this uses the osx86 version.
<knightwise> not a "native osx cd"
<knightwise> I downloaded IATKOS , perhaps i should try that Cd instead of the real osx cd
<HazRPG> knightwise: ah, fair enough... would have thought a standard version would have worked too (considering vbox can emulate the EFI parts that OSX requires)
<knightwise> HazRPG: trying the iatkos cd now
<knightwise> ok, got the grey apple and the spinning thing
<knightwise> liiks like the cd is still spinning.
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<HazRPG> brobostigon: mornings dude \o
<brobostigon> HazRPG: good morning, o/
<HazRPG> brobostigon: how's things at your end of the isle :)
<AlanBell> choo choo
<oimon> openoffice is refusing to obey my porttrait/lanscape/fit to window settings :(
<brobostigon> HazRPG: alittle cooler, and physiclly tired and my eczema isnt so hot. and you?
<HazRPG> brobostigon: ah, still suffering since around oggcamp time?
<HazRPG> brobostigon: yeah, I can't really complain... all good really
<brobostigon> HazRPG: yes, isnt has been going up and down, since before then, yes.
<brobostigon> HazRPG: :)
<HazRPG> brobostigon: ah
<HazRPG> brobostigon: *hugs*
 * brobostigon hugs HazRPG in return.
<HazRPG> :)
<HazRPG> oimon: hmm, o'rly?
<HazRPG> oimon: what's the document saved as?
<HazRPG> oimon: I noticed that can cause issues sometimes
<knightwise> HazRPG: :( Not working i'm afraid :(
<knightwise> i keeps spinning the little circle of death
<HazRPG> knightwise: hmm, ouch
<davmor2> bigcalm: I'm not sure I'm nipping up town tomorrow and will be checking everything is in place then
 * czajkowski kicks davmor2 
<davmor2> morning sweetie everything okay in czajkowski world?
<bigcalm> davmor2: righto :)
<bigcalm> czajkowski: feeling older today?
<czajkowski> nope
<bigcalm> Good :)
<czajkowski> and no where near wiser
<davmor2> czajkowski: that's cause everytime you learn something new it pushes out something you'd already learnt
<czajkowski> I will always remember
<czajkowski> davmor2: is a brat
<MooDoo> i've forgotten more then you'll ever know :D
<davmor2> MooDoo: who are you do we know each other......I got this feeling I should know you
<davmor2> czajkowski: you never remember :P  Never honest :)
<MooDoo> davmor2: slap!
<davmor2> Oh you're that MooDoo  thanks
<MooDoo> kiss on the cheek for czajkowski
<davmor2> czajkowski: hippo birdy 2 ewes, hippo birdy 2 ewes, hippo birdy dear czajkowski, hippo birdy 2 ewes
<bigcalm> Bit late
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: I'm stealing that -- it's by dad's  birthday today :)
<davmor2> bigcalm: no networking yesterday which sucks by the way :)
<bigcalm> davmor2: BT?
<davmor2> bigcalm: virgin
<davmor2> upstream locked in nicely downstream wouldn't lock
<bigcalm> Doh, I should have remembered that!
<bigcalm> Weird :(
<bigcalm> I've moved my superhub over to modem only mode. Using my Linksys router again and loving it
<popey> :D
<Laney> what is wrong with the superhub as a router? seems to wfmâ¢
<popey> yeah, modem mode is good
 * bigcalm notes the flame war about to happen on the mail list
<popey> :D
<Laney> but I wonder what I am missing
<Laney> OOH FLAMES!
<popey> It's tuesday, time for flames! Everyone knows that silly!
<bigcalm> Can we all just gall it Gerald?
<popey> \o/
<popey> Laney: it often seems to depend heavily on the infrastructure behind your superhub
<Laney> you've noticed it being unstable?
<popey> i have little/no problem with mine, and I'm in an ex-NTL area (apparently one of the better cabled ones)
<Laney> oh, behind that way
<popey> I have had to reboot it a few times, yes
<Laney> ours seems good; solid 50Mb all of the time
<bigcalm> Laney: I have found the superhub to be less than reliable as a router. If my 'net connection goes away, I like to still be able to talk to my other machines on my lan
<bigcalm> I've had a lot of problems with my 1st superhub. Got better when an enginer replaced it. Still not good enough though. This is an ex-Telewest region. Don't know if that makes much of a difference though
<Laney> so going to modem only mode is only to mitigate the problems with your dodgy cable connection?
<popey> no, thats not why i went to modem only mode
<bigcalm> Well, going modem only allows me to use of own choice of router. On my linksys I have dd-wrt :)
<bigcalm> Which also gives me better wifi coverage in the house
<Laney> the firmware doesn't seem so bad that I could be bothered to bypass it
<Laney> maybe if I needed QoS and stuff I would
<bigcalm> Working from home means that I notice the down time much more
<Laney> i am permanently sshed into my home pc
<bigcalm> Different regions have varying levels of stability :)
<Laney> good for me, not for others
<gord> back to banshee because rhythmbox segfaults now :'(
<bigcalm> Aww
<czajkowski> gord: you just break stuff
<bigcalm> I just got used to Rhythmbox for last.fm goodness
 * bigcalm keeps away from 11.10
 * MartijnVdS never uses last.fm anymore
<gord> oh i love last.fm in rhythmbox
<gord> its the only music client that does it properly
<bigcalm> I like to leave it on the recommendations and then get on with work
<MartijnVdS> I've used the stand-alone client
<MartijnVdS> that works
<MartijnVdS> except it costs me a lot of money in new CDs ;)
<bigcalm> Haha
<bigcalm> Spotify \o/
<gord> i set the last.fm tag to "awesome" and just let it give me music tagged with that
<MartijnVdS> but then it's not MINE
<gord> usually goes well
<MartijnVdS> gord: Awesome
<bigcalm> Haha, gotta try that :)
<bigcalm> Humm
<bigcalm> Other people's idea of awesome isn't the same as mine
<bigcalm> Ah well
<bigcalm> Back to recommendations
<DJones> Grrr, this isn't fair, my wife is being given an ipad by work so she can "go paperless"
<bigcalm> What would you do with one?
<DJones> Sell it & buy an android tablet :)
<DJones> Not that I've got anything against ipads, I like them, just prefer android because I'm used to that on my phone
<bigcalm> :)
<DJones> I'd use a tablet more for casula web browsing, book reading, multimedia etc
<DJones> I like the look of the Samsung Galaxy 10.1" models, but they're a bit pricy
<DJones> Kindle Fire looks good, although the screen may be a little bit small
<gord> i still find it impossible to justify getting a tablet, even for a low price
<bigcalm> The 7" android tablet I bought is pants
<DJones> Which one was that bigcalm
<bigcalm> Now only use it for checking my web work works on mobile devices
<bigcalm> Kogan
<gord> yeah... if you are gonna get an android tablet, get one with a lot of clout behind it
<DJones> bigcalm: I rememebr you getting that now
<bigcalm> It was less than 100 quid, didn't expect it to be good :D
<DJones> I wonder whether its worth waiting for the uk release of the motorola xooom 2 if it come out here
<gord> to be honest, if i were gonna get any tablet, it would be an amazon one. amazon own lovefilm...
<DJones> I don't use things like lovefilm, so that wouldn't be a benefit to me, as I like Android, google own motorola now so could make sense
<DJones> The xoom itself looks nice
<DJones> As an example http://www.pcworld.co.uk/gbuk/motorola-xoom-tablet-pc-32gb-09752543-pdt.html
<MartijnVdS> the xoom is _heavy_ though
<MartijnVdS> compared to my Kindle :)
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: The ipad is heavy in comparison to a kindle
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: sure
<MartijnVdS> but people still use it as an e-book reader
<MartijnVdS> I don't know how they do it, with the retina-burning brightness
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: infact a paper back book is heavy in comparison to the kindle
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: depends on the book
<davmor2> war and piece, gone with the wind, lord of the rings, the last harry potter take your pick :D
<DJones> ipad 2 is 601g, xoom is 730g, new kindle is 170g, kindle keyboard is 240g
<DJones> Kindles are in a different league weight wise
<DJones> The kindle fire is 415g, but is a a much smaller screen
<DJones> Not sure whether a 130g difference between the ipad & xoom would be that noticable
<bigcalm> If you're holding it for a long time, it would be
<bigcalm> Even with my 3rd gen Kindle, I notice the weight after a while
<bigcalm> I wonder if needs charging up :)
<DJones> Galaxy Tab 1.1 os 590g
<bigcalm> Nope :D
<DJones> s/os/is/
<bigcalm> When I gave my Kindle to my Mum to play with, the 1st thing she did was to try and swipe the screen :S
<directhex> bigcalm, kindle touch!
<Guest31871> stupid nickserv
<Guest31871> stupid irc bouncer
<davmor2> Guest31871: muhahahahaha gord irc hates you hate it back works for me
<Guest31871> stupid everything
<popey> bigcalm: everyone does that :D
<bigcalm> But she doesn't even have a touch interface phone
<shauno> I think the trick is to be nicer to your mom, and get her a real ipad
<bigcalm> Most strange
<bigcalm> She and Hayley won't use them. Both say that they prefer books
<MartijnVdS> strange people
<MartijnVdS> Book + train = broken book (especially hardcover books are very breakable)
<gord> kindle + plane = broken kindle (for me, once, amazon were great and sent me a new one though)
<bigcalm> Trains are why 98% of my book collection are paperbacks
<DJones> The number of books I read (especially on holiday), I'd use up my luggage allowance just with them
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: Trains are why I bought a Sony PRS-600 2 years ago, and a new Kindle is on its way to me atm :)
<shauno> most planes are designed to crush souls.  I'm rarely surprised when there's a little collateral damage
<bigcalm> The sun is shining. I thought the forecast was for misery once more?
<MartijnVdS> The Sun is misery, isn't it?
<bigcalm> Ah, that's this afternoon :)
<gord> its definitely getting colder, i can tell because i am apparently wearing socks toda
<gord> today*
<bigcalm> The nights are still uncomfortable up here
<davmor2> gord: welcome back dude
<davmor2> gord: just socks,  Man you really need to think about wearing clothes before joining the channel ;)
<gord> working from home does have its benefits
<bigcalm> I'm surprised that I wear as much clothing as I do
<bigcalm> Working in your slippers is nice though :)
<DJones> This is disappointing http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/42300/no-kindle-fire-touch-uk
<oimon> DJones: wow
<shauno> odd that they say amazon haven't given a reason, when we already know what it is
<popey> pffft
<popey> they just want to stop people waiting for the fire
<popey> to get people to buy the current models
<oimon> i thought the reason was the USA is the primary market for amazon and everybody else just has to lump it
<shauno> the fire is android-based, but locked down to amazon's app store.  which isn't in the UK yet, as I understand it
<oimon> too far for the poor bytes to travel
<shauno> since they're being sold at a loss atm, zero sense putting it into markets where they're not going to recoup the losses thru the appstore
<DJones> There's also rumours of a larger screen kindle fire due out next year
<shauno> oimon, if only it was that simple.  our bytes run on a different voltages to theirs :p
<oimon> and they have a funny accent
<DJones> Maybe the uk will get that as a first option with the amazon app store
<DJones> The more I read reviews, the one that gets the best overall reviews looks to be the motorola xoom
<oimon> i think i just have to get the new cheap kindle Â£89 one
<oimon> wife's bday is this week
<DJones> I would struggle to justify a kindle as an ebook ready alone when a tablet can do so much more, although price is an important issue if all you want to do is read books/magazines etc
<oimon> she's dyslexic and for some reason finds it easier to read on a kindle/tablet than a white page
<oimon> interesting: "The Court of Justice holds that national legislation which prohibits the import, sale or use of foreign decoder cards is contrary to the freedom to provide services and cannot be justified either in light of the objective of protecting intellectual property rights or by the objective of encouraging the public to attend football stadiums."
<MartijnVdS> Not that I'd WANT to buy Sky from the Netherlands... :)
<oimon> i wonder what this means for live internet streaming
<JGJones> DJones, I could justify a kindle as a ebook alone providing the cost is low enough. I do have a tablet, but the Kindle is far much easier to read. The difference of display is quite large. My father have one while I have a tablet. Obviously I'm using the tablet + kindle app a lot, but when I visit my dad's, I prefer reading on his Kindle.
<DJones> JGJones: I've got a reasonable phone which I use for ebook reading at the minute, so the cost of a pure ebook reader compared to already having that would be against the kindle alone
<gord> reading on the kindle is sooo nice,
<JGJones> I'll buy a kindle - under Â£50. Â£89 still too high for me :)
<gord> just wish the page refresh was faster, i hear the new one is
<davmor2> gord: it is indeed,  my wife loves hers
<gord> davmor2, is the new one all touchy feely?
<gord> not really looked at it much, but they removed the keyboard so it must be surely?
<oimon> the new one is not touch screen AFAIK
<davmor2> gord: hers is the mark 3 not the new one
<davmor2> she had it for xmas
<oimon> and uses virtual keyboard navigated by the directional pad
<gord> well thats made me not want it :(
<gord> davmor2, which one is the one i have?
<gord> i think i got it this time last year
<oimon> davmor2: does she use the keyboard nmuch?
<davmor2> oimon: yeap to search for books
<oimon> to buy? or search on her device
<oimon> the battery life on the new kindle is half as much. probably related to the weight reduction
<hamitron> the Â£90 one?
<oimon> hamitron: yes, go to http://www.amazon.co.uk/Kindle-Wi-Fi-6-Ink-Display/dp/B0051QVF7A and view the section on compare kindles
<hamitron> heh, I tend to ignore the advertising
<hamitron> ;)
<hamitron> marketing crap is always the best case
<oimon> however it's X/2 now
<hamitron> my biggest question, is how pictures look on the screen
<hamitron> Â£90 is almost tempting
<oimon> mono pics?
<hamitron> well, any
<hamitron> mono and colour
<hamitron> :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Am liking the new Ubuntu Polo Shirts... http://shop.canonical.com/product_info.php?products_id=879
<JGJones> Interesting...only just heard that latest version of Gnome ship with a new file manager called Emperor - http://code.jollybox.de/emperor.xhtml
<hamitron> grrrr
<hamitron> internet seems to be slowing down
<hamitron> last week just seems insanely slow when accessing stuff in the US
<oimon> haven't had that problem since 1997
<hamitron> I can't even get 128kbps radio streams working fully atm
<oimon> microsoft have officially killed the zune!
<hamitron> is that the music thingy?
<oimon> yeah, still never seen a real one
 * hamitron neither
<JGJones> me too...not even in shops.
<oimon> someone gave one to my brother but he couldn't download the software for windows because he was outside the US
<oimon> i dare say it would have worked under ubunt
<davmor2> JGJones: it's not shipped yet it might ship in the version coming out in march/april time
 * GirlyGirl thinks Atharva is about to say something
<Atharva> Hi...I have a switchable graphics laptop with AMD Radeon HD 6470 and Intel Sandy Bridge. And after I installed ati restricted drivers it crashed to terminal.How to recover it ? Any Ideas ?
<Atharva> GirlyGirl : No one to answer..
<GirlyGirl> Atharva: Maybe later, Uk comes online in the night hours
<Azelphur> Atharva: first thing to do is to look at the contents of /var/log/Xorg.0.log
<oimon> room has been quiet today
<oimon> wonder if #ati might help?
<Azelphur> If you install Ubuntu, then you install xubuntu-desktop, is there any way to remove all the gnome specific/ubuntu stuff?
<Azelphur> I have 2 keyboard configuration applications, for example.
<Myrtti> there used to be a way, but I think it's outdated by now
<GirlyGirl> Azelphur: http://www.psychocats.net/ubuntu/purexfce
<Azelphur> phew that's a lot of packages
<Azelphur> hopefully nothing will break :p
<GirlyGirl> Azelphur: It won't I've done it many times
<Azelphur> yea but I'm on 11.10 :(
<GirlyGirl> Azelphur: but to be safe after you remove do an install for xubuntu-desktop
<GirlyGirl> Azelphur: Ah that might cause trouble!
<Azelphur> indeed
<Azelphur> I'm gonna have to find lots of packages that no doubt have changed names :p
<oimon> isn't it easier to ..gasp..install xubuntu?
<Azelphur> oimon: reinstall my entire OS? :(
<oimon> do you normally upgrade every sixmonths?
<Azelphur> I wanted to try XFCE, now I want to switch to it, reinstalling the whole OS isn't really fun
<Azelphur> yea, I usually keep up with release cyclecs
<Azelphur> cycles*
<oimon> reinstall OS only became a bad thing since microsoft made it so bad
<oimon> i use kickstart to reinstall OS of my users all the time.
<Azelphur> yea, I could reinstall and I do have separate /home, but I don't wanna D:
<oimon> the more u do it, the more streamline your process becomes :D
<theashman> is there a way to specify that a process should be low priority?
<bigcalm> nice
<bigcalm> !nice
<lubotu3> 'Nice' is a property of a process that determines how willing it is to give CPU time to other processes.  A higher value makes it more likely to give away time.  A negative value makes it less likely. Values are from -19 to 19, with 0 being the default.  For more information, type 'man nice' at a terminal.
<oimon> !renice
<theashman> tyvm
<bigcalm> yw :)
<AlanBell>  http://shop.canonical.com/index.php?cPath=14 tshirts \o/
<gord> hrm, i never did get my ocelot t-shirt :(
<MooDoo> i still wear my maverick t-shirt :D
<AlanBell> hardy shirt ftw
 * Azelphur was clever and bought a generic Ubuntu logo tshirt :p
<Monsterwizard> awesome
<Monsterwizard> btw, is 11:10 going to be a LTS edition
<GirlyGirl> Monsterwizard: No
<theashman> 12.04 be next LTS?
<oimon> i have a kubuntu tshirt woops
<Monsterwizard> damn it D:
<oimon> !LTS
<lubotu3> LTS means Long Term Support. LTS versions of Ubuntu will be supported for 3 years on the desktop, and 5 years on the server. The current LTS version of Ubuntu is !Lucid (Lucid Lynx 10.04)
<oimon> !releases
<lubotu3> Ubuntu releases a new version every 6 months. Each version is supported for 18 months to 5 years. More info at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Releases & http://wiki.ubuntu.com/TimeBasedReleases
<oimon> theashman: yes :P
<Monsterwizard> has anyone gone to a ubuntu uk meeting?
<GirlyGirl> oimon: Since Windows NT, I never had a reinstall problem with microsoft
<AlanBell> yes Monsterwizard
<theashman> Anyone going to the Leeds meeting?
<Monsterwizard> interesting I'm thinking of going to one
<GirlyGirl> Who is going to the release party of 11.10
<AlanBell> I am going to the London one
<oimon> GirlyGirl: windows stores stuff in registry etc that it's impossible to backup. linux allows you to keep your home dir
<ikonia> Any of you UK guys have a UK contact that works with perspex ? cutting for example ?
<GirlyGirl> oimon: Possible to backup, its somewhere in sys32.... not saying windows is better but since NT it is better than people give it credit for
<Monsterwizard> a
<oimon> GirlyGirl: i have to disagree. performing a clean install of MS OS *will* mean you lose app settings
<AlanBell> !windows
<lubotu3> For discussion on Microsoft software, or help with same, please visit ##windows. See http://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+bug/1 http://linux.oneandoneis2.org/LNW.htm and /msg ubottu equivalents
<AlanBell> GirlyGirl: as you asked the question, are you going to a release party?
<GirlyGirl> AlanBell: I don't think so London is far fo me
<AlanBell> Leeds is the other one on the day
<AlanBell> and then we have the Happy Hour tour going all over the place
<GirlyGirl> AlanBell: Leeds is even more distant!
<theashman> But Leeds is awesome
<Monsterwizard> Leeds is...rough
<Monsterwizard> :P
<theashman> Haha. Only a little...
<theashman> Just stick to well lit areas and you'll be safe
<Monsterwizard> Bristol is too
<TheOpenSourcerer> Leeds is "t'oop north"
<GirlyGirl> AlanBell: But obviously you're going, aren't you the event organiser?
<Azelphur> got a USB drive, deleted some files off it, it's moved them into the .Trash-1000 directory, and I can't delete this directory :/
<Azelphur> but I need the space on the USB drive free'd up, suggestions?
<theashman> TheOpenSourcerer: Nowt wrong wi it up 'ere...
<theashman> </terrible attempt at yorkshire speak>
<theashman> Azelphur: empty the wastebasket
<TheOpenSourcerer> theashman: Your dialect works for me ;-)
<Azelphur> ah, I think there's something weird going on, it says error deleting fat entry beyond EOF in dmesg, and puts the filesystem into read only
 * DJones gives TheOpenSourcerer some ferrets to stick down his trousers
<Azelphur> I guess I'll format it
<TheOpenSourcerer> Azelphur: dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/yourusbstick ?
<Azelphur> TheOpenSourcerer: hehe, format is easy enough too
<TheOpenSourcerer> yeah.
<Monsterwizard> lol awesome name TheOpenSourcer
<oimon> anyone tried fedora 16 yet?
<Monsterwizard> yes
<Monsterwizard> I couldn't use the wireless driver
<Monsterwizard> D:
<Monsterwizard> for my acer
<Monsterwizard> apart from that...it's alright
<TheOpenSourcerer> Thanks Monsterwizard I like yours too
<TheOpenSourcerer> I thought of it walking to the pub on a sunny evening
<oimon> Monsterwizard: still no minimize button on fedora i see
<Monsterwizard> oh and that
<Monsterwizard> What desktop environment are you using?
<oimon> which proves an insane person made it
<oimon> gnome2+docky
<Monsterwizard> ahh yes
<Monsterwizard> does your wireless card work ok?
<oimon> on fedora? i tried it on a desktop pc via usb stick. i didn't like what i saw so i didn't install it
<Monsterwizard> ah
<gr33npeace> morning all, the countdown site isn't showing the countdown for me!  http://www.thisisthecountdown.com/
<gr33npeace> the rest of the page loads, but no countdown appears!  anyone else seeing that?
<AlanBell> the countdown is javascript based
<gr33npeace> AlanBell: yup, and javascript is enabled for all sites
<gr33npeace> I'm behind a proxy, could that be it?
<kirrus> gr33npeace: if the proxy is interferring with javascript, possibly :)
<Azelphur_> Just installed xubuntu fresh, trying to run apt-get update but I get lots of W: Failed to fetch http://gb.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/oneiric-backports/universe/i18n/Translation-en  Something wicked happened resolving 'None:http' (-5 - No address associated with hostname)
<Azelphur_> various different urls, all the same messages, about 50 or so times, any ideas?
<jpds> Azelphur_: No address associated with hostname
<MartijnVdS> looks like a botched proxy config
<jpds> Azelphur_: Something wrong with your DNS.
<MartijnVdS> or dns
<Azelphur_> why is it even trying to resolve "none:http"? my /etc/apt/sources.list is fine
<Azelphur_> jpds: if there was something wrong with my DNS I wouldn't be online talking to you :P
<Azelphur_> my DNS is fine
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur_: have you checked /etc/apt/sources.list.d/*
<jpds> Azelphur_: host gb.archive.ubuntu.com
<Azelphur_> MartijnVdS: empty directory
<Azelphur_> jpds: gb.archive.ubuntu.com has address 194.169.254.10
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur_: can you pastebin /etc/apt/sources.list?
<gr33npeace> kirrus: is that likely!?  :)  I had no idea... rest of the page loads fine!  very strange
<Azelphur_> MartijnVdS: http://pastebin.com/Sd4hNyBm
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur_: looks fine...
<Azelphur_> indeed :(
<Azelphur_> I am on a daily, maybe this daily is just broken
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur_: nah then it's be broken for me too
<MartijnVdS> it'd*
<Azelphur_> *shrug*
<Azelphur_> It tried to run do-release-upgrade too, which also errors
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur_: is there proxy info in your environment?
<Azelphur_> MartijnVdS: I didn't set any up, if there is where would it be?
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur_: try "printenv | grep -i proxy" first
<Azelphur_> MartijnVdS: nothing
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur_: and in the proxy config dialog?
<MartijnVdS> for your user
<Azelphur_> http://pastebin.com/KDbwX5K0 is the error I get from do-release-upgrade, kinda interesting that it's also trying to resolve "none"
 * MartijnVdS has no idea, maybe popey (the proxy man) recognises the error
<MartijnVdS> it also uses apt
<Azelphur_> MartijnVdS: not sure where that is
<AlanBell> I have seen that error when I didn't have a dns server set
<AlanBell> did sudo dhclient and it picked it up
<MartijnVdS> can you check in /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/
<MartijnVdS> if there's something defining a proxy
<davmor2> http://thisisthefinalcountdown.com/
<davmor2> hahahaaaa
<AlanBell> have you installed apt-squid-proxy-client or similar
<Azelphur_> this is a fresh installation, I havn't installed anything
<Azelphur_> MartijnVdS: no mention of proxy in that directory (either in the files, or file names)
<davmor2> AlanBell: popey: czajkowski: http://thisisthefinalcountdown.com/  and the winner of satirical countdown banner goes too
<AlanBell> http://thisisntthecountdown.com/
<Azelphur_> Guess I'll try installing beta 2, see if that gets me anywhere
<Azelphur> hmm, I seem to have killed my flash player. :(
<mgdm> that'd be fine, if you managed to kill everyone else's at the same time
<Azelphur> true story
 * Azelphur just uses youtube html5 for now
<diplo> Anyone else have issues with messages not being sent with Empathy on MSN network ?
<diplo> Been happening over different versions
<brobostigon> i have been getting that every so often in bitlbee aswell.
<Azelphur> brobostigon: that would be unrelated, bitlbee uses it's own protocol code (although recently it's been adapted to have libpurple support, but still nothing to do with telepathy :p)
<diplo> Works fine with pidgin always
<brobostigon> Azelphur: good point, yes.
<diplo> It's always Empathy that fails :/
<diplo> Not just me as well
<Azelphur> Anyone care to help me figure out why flash isn't working? I've installed the flashplugin-downloader package, but no flash in either chromium or fireofx
<GirlyGirl> Azelphur: Maybe downloader did not finish the install?
<Azelphur> if it did, it didn't say so
<dwatkins> Azelphur: have you tried starting the browser from the commandline to see if it writes any errors there?
<dwatkins> also, which browser?
<Azelphur> dwatkins: chrome and firefox, and no flash related errors I can see :(
<dwatkins> chrome has its own flash
<Azelphur> sorry, chromium
<dwatkins> ah ok
<dwatkins> what do you see where a flash animation should be, Azelphur?
<Azelphur> the usual "Go install flash player" thing
<Azelphur> and flash player is not in about:plugins
<Azelphur> dwatkins: hmm just went to http://www.mozilla.org/en-US/plugincheck/
<mgdm> Chrome has its own Flash *if you're on 32-bit*
<Azelphur> and it says "Missing flash?" "For your safety, Firefox has disabled your outdated version of Flash. Please upgrade to the latest version."
<dwatkins> what does "about:plugins" say, Azelphur?
<dwatkins> (in firefox)
<Azelphur> just icedtea
<dwatkins> flash isn't installed, or it's not been detected by the browser
<Azelphur> yea, I gathered that much myself :p
<dwatkins> dpkg thinks it is?
<Azelphur> yep
<dwatkins> I installed "flashplugin-installer" on my old Ubuntu 10.10 box, I don't know what your package does.
<GirlyGirl> bye
<dwatkins> A+
<Azelphur> dwatkins: fixed it by removing all the flash player packages and installing flashplugin-installer again :D
<dwatkins> hooray
<Azelphur> indeed
<diplo-> For a beta, Oneric is buggy as shite
<Azelphur> diplo-: wuss
<Azelphur> :p
<diplo-> Nautilus crashes what ever i do, I have had whole laptop lock up
<mgdm> genius
<mgdm> err, wrong window
<davmor2> diplo-: you mean you don't do everything from TTY1 what do you think this is some sort of windows replacement or something ;)
<diplo-> :P
<diplo-> I've not known a beta to be this buggy tbh, Alphas yeah
<ali1234> what about natty? that was pretty buggy
<popey> yeah
<popey> diplo-: ATI video card?
<ali1234> or 8.04?
<ali1234> how about 8.10?
<Azelphur> or <insert thing that was once beta here>
<ali1234> nah
<ali1234> those releases were terrible
<diplo-> popey, intel
<diplo-> I didn't try Natty as I was happy on maverick
<diplo-> during the betas that is
<ali1234> karmic was probably the buggiest at time of release
<diplo-> Really not for me, found it fine
<popey> people have short memories
<popey> well, some have very long memories too :D
<diplo-> :)
<ali1234> jaunty, now that was a good one
<popey> hmm, I'm getting that "wake computer from suspend, it immediately goes back into suspend again" thing
<ali1234> diplo-: nautilus crashing is a known bug. waiting for repos to sync for the update
<diplo-> Cool
<diplo-> Started working now
<ali1234> however since it is ubuntuone related, i was not affected, due to it being the first thing i uninstall
<diplo-> Ah i am syncing via u1 now
<diplo-> Wondering if it was part of the issue
<Azelphur> hmm, I seem to have lots of weird boxes in conky :(
<Azelphur> even on plaintext output, sense this makes none D:
<Azelphur> well this sucks, conky seems to be broken in 11.10 :(
<Azelphur> It exhibits generally weird behaviour and prints boxes all over the place
<Azelphur> even with an entirely fresh conkyrc which only contains very basic things
<Laney> looks alright here
<Azelphur> Laney: see if you get the same thing as me, make a text file and put this in it http://pastebin.com/88gWFn2N
<Azelphur> Laney: then put ${execpi 1 cat /path/to/textfile}
<Azelphur> and see if you get lots of weird boxes at the beginning of lines \o/
<Seeker`> http://news.slashdot.org/story/11/10/04/1343217/deadline-approaches-for-registration-in-stanfords-free-cs-classes <- this seems cool
<dwatkins> Seeker`: yeah :)
<kaushal> Hi
<kaushal> can someone please suggest me about https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-users/2011-October/252250.html ?
<AlanBell> kaushal: I would try the lastest live desktop CD, a daily oneiric or something. Just to do a quick test to see if is recognised in that or not.
<kaushal> ok
<kaushal> AlanBell: Thanks
<kaushal> AlanBell: do i refer to http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/current/oneiric-desktop-i386.iso ?
<AlanBell> kaushal: yeah, I would give that a go
<AlanBell> if it works then you know the hardware is OK and will be supported at some point, then you can decide whether to run 10.04 with hacked together drivers for it, or maybe try 11.04 server, or maybe wait a week and be bold and go for 11.10 server
<AlanBell> if it doesn't work, then you can carry on with trying to get upstream support for the drivers
<AlanBell> by which I mean compiling them from source or whatever
<kaushal> AlanBell: ok
<kaushal> understood completely
<AlanBell> buying another network card should be an option to consider as well
<kaushal> AlanBell: yes
<kaushal> AlanBell: Thanks
<kaushal> AlanBell: makes sense since it involves lot of effort
<kaushal> not worth the time
<AlanBell> yeah, even if it is a cheap Â£15 desktop card that you throw away in 6 months when the good one has supported drivers
<kaushal> AlanBell: sure and Thanks
<szymon_g> hi
<szymon_g> i've got a question: since alternatecd doesn't seem to work on my pc; can i setup raid/lvm from livecd /on ubuntu 11.10 beta2/? what extra packages i have to install /on livecd session/? will i be able to setup /dev/md0 etc for mounting points /and rest on lvm/?
#ubuntu-uk 2011-10-05
<itnet7> AlanBell: ping
<sammm> OH NO two of my university modules clash. :(
<sammm> HazRPG: What shall I do? I can't go to both lectures if they're at the same time
<Azelphur> Step 1) Record one of them, Step 2) Record the other one too, Step 3) Sit at home with your feet up and watch them while munching popcorn, Step 4) Congratulations you have now beaten university
<sammm> Azelphur: I have a feeling you aren't taking this seriously.
 * Azelphur never takes anything seriously
<Azelphur> still, I don't see why you can't just record one and watch it later \o/
<HazRPG> indeed
<HazRPG> sammm: you could just check to see if there's an alt. day for the same lecturer/class... that's what I use to do :P
<sammm> HazRPG: Neither lecture is double taught. :(
 * Azelphur has the best approach
<Azelphur> high school dropout \o/
<sammm> Azelphur: Shhhhh troll
<Azelphur> my life isn't a troll :(
<sammm> HazRPG: I guess I should just drop one of the modules and pick up one which doesn't clash?
<HazRPG> sammm: Azelphur isn't a troll :/
<Azelphur> HazRPG: he called my life a troll :(
<Azelphur> lol
<HazRPG> Azelphur: I saws :(
<sammm> HazRPG: I don't care, he's not helpful
<Azelphur> I can live with that ^
<sammm> HazRPG: What do students normally do when they have a timetable clash?
<HazRPG> sammm: err... look for the alt?
<ali1234> i only went to about 20% of my lectures in university
<sammm> HazRPG: Alt lecture? I'm not sure there is one.
<HazRPG> same class will be repeated several times in a week for different groups :/
<ali1234> that's probably why i got a third though
<sammm> HazRPG: But I can ask my tutor or something if there is.
<HazRPG> sammm: indeed, or ask them for advise as to what you could do
<sammm> HazRPG: Okay, I've emailed my tutor and hopefully he'll get back to me later today and give me some solutions.
<sammm> HazRPG: Yeah, but I can't do that for at least 6 hours
<Azelphur> ali1234: you have higher attendance than me :P
<ali1234> what are the two modules?
<ali1234> they probably assumed nobody want to do both of them
<sammm> ali1234: Issues in Macroeconomic Policy and Decision Making in Business
<ali1234> hmm
<ali1234> are they elective modules?
<ali1234> cos decision making in business sounds like a joke module to me
<sammm> ali1234: I chose it based on the module code
<HazRPG> ali1234: at UCLan, none of the lecturers clashed, it was mainly the practicals/lessons that would clash, but had several different ones of the same thing because there would be about 5-6 different courses with similar modules - tutors don't mind you sitting in on those, as long as you have those modules on your course
<sammm> EBR223
<sammm> Reminds me of Battlefield
<sammm> ali1234: And also, it sounds like an easy 10 credits. :)
<ali1234> at manchester, there were probably clashing lectures, but it wasn't ever possible to pick both clashing modules because you couldn't ever have the prerequisite modules for both
<HazRPG> sammm: alt. you could just ask your classmates for notes ^_^
<HazRPG> or ask them to video it for you ^_^
<sammm> HazRPG: My friend/soon-to-be-fuck-buddy has notes. :)
<Azelphur> HazRPG: ninjaing my ideas :p
<HazRPG> Azelphur: don't you know, there's like 134 ninjas in here, 127 of them are failing ;D
<Azelphur> lol
<Azelphur> http://demotivationalblog.com/demotivational/2008/09/ninjas-there-are-four-of-them-in-this-picture.jpg \o/
<HazRPG> CTRL+C or ALT+F4 is the easiest way to be a ninja (quick tip for everyone \o/)
<HazRPG> Azelphur: haha, exactly like that xD
<Azelphur> :)
<sammm> Pressing the power reset button is even easier
<sammm> And faster
<sammm> USB takes 8 ms to react
<sammm> Plus operating system latency
<HazRPG> wall switch is even easier xD
<HazRPG> insta-all off!
<sammm> I can ninja faster than you because my USB is overclocked :)
<sammm> 500hz
<HazRPG> sammm: I use USB3 ;D
<Azelphur> I can ninja in more ways than you, I have 102 extra keys ontop of my keyboard
<Azelphur> :D
<sammm> HazRPG: Exploding the sun is even easier because it destroys your computer, the internet, and anyone on the internet
<sammm> Azelphur: But they take 8ms to do anything
<HazRPG> dude you both fail, easiest way is dividing by zero
<HazRPG> its like mega fuuuuuuuu power right there!
<sammm> HazRPG: What's the polling rate of USB3?
<HazRPG> err
<Azelphur> http://gamesweb.sk/editor/images/pages/2/13357/logitech-gseries.jpg
<Azelphur> when in doubt, add more buttons
<HazRPG> 5Gb/s transmission speeds?
<sammm> More buttons !=better keyboard
<Azelphur> I have the Keyboard (G19) and the Gamepad (G19) and the wireless version of the headset (G930), I use a different mouse though :p
<sammm> HazRPG: Bandwidth and latency are two different things
<sammm> HazRPG: Gawd, I thought you knew more about this stuff than me
<daftykins> XD
<HazRPG> sammm: I code...
<HazRPG> sammm: hardware isn't my forte ^_^
<sammm> HazRPG: Yay I probably know more about hardware than you :)
<Azelphur> ^ this also applies to me
<HazRPG> I know the hardware I need, and want... bout it :P
<sammm> Azelphur: Wireless keyboards, headsets and mice suck
<HazRPG> if it works, then score \o/
<Azelphur> sammm: the keyboard, mouse and gamepad arn't wireless
<HazRPG> sammm: I'm sure Azelphur will agree - if it works, then score \o/
<Azelphur> I opted for a wireless headset because I keep snagging and breaking the cables :)
<sammm> Azelphur: Added latency and compaction
<sammm> s/compaction/something/
<Azelphur> yea, I don't use wireless for input, the only wireless device is the headset
<sammm> Azelphur: But it's compressed
<sammm> s/compaction/compression/
<Azelphur> yep
<Azelphur> so's any music you ever listen to on a computer anyway
<HazRPG> sammm: doesn't matter what latency you get from your hardware... it'll all not matter cos your speed between HDD->RAM->CPU will also have slowdowns
<ali1234> that doesn't matter when you only use it for micspamming on TF2 :)
<HazRPG> ali1234: good point ^_^
<Azelphur> also I believe the codec used is lossless anyway
<Azelphur> so in summary... nope it's great :D
<sammm> HazRPG: Yes, which is why I turn down graphics
<sammm> HazRPG: Less load on hardware=higher framerate=less latency
<sammm> 100+ FPS FTW
<sammm> 60 FPS is for scrubs
<sammm> HazRPG: I'm really going to struggle with my maths this year :(
<Azelphur> I'm happy with 60, my monitors refresh rate is 60 and I have vsync turned on in most things
<ali1234> i don't like watching HDTV cos it;s all 30FPS and it looks really juddery
<Azelphur> and I don't need to turn down my graphics, WoW is quite happy running at 3840x1200 via wine :D
<Azelphur> ali1234: lil
<Azelphur> lol*
<sammm> Azelphur: Scrub
<Azelphur> sammm: what games you play?
<ali1234> would much prefer blurry, but 50fps SDTV any day
<HazRPG> ali1234: heh, indeed
<ali1234> the picture on TV shows was much better back in the day
<ali1234> back when live meant live
<ali1234> not stuffed through a mpeg encoder
<sammm> Azelphur: Counter Strike, Dota, CoD4
<sammm> L4D
<Azelphur> sammm: used to do CS:S now I'm a TF2 person :)
<HazRPG> Azelphur: my monitor only does 72Hz, or so... so anything more than that is a waste really
<sammm> Azelphur: TF2 can be fun
<Azelphur> I play WoW and Minecraft too, fun fun
<daftykins> HazRPG: C...R...T D: ?
<sammm> Azelphur: Lame games
<Azelphur> nou
<sammm> Azelphur: Guild Wars>WoW and anything>Minecraft
<Azelphur> I played guild wars and didn't much like it tbh
<Azelphur> I played all the way up to max level and got bored and left it
<sammm> Azelphur: Why not?
<sammm> Azelphur: The game takes more skill
<sammm> Azelphur: It's not an MMORPG
<Azelphur> I didn't find anything to do at max level
<sammm> Azelphur: It's a competitive third-person action fighting game
<sammm> Azelphur: Compete in tournaments
<Azelphur> *shrug* You can do that in WoW anyway?
<ali1234> WoW does suck
<HazRPG> daftykins: nope... TFT (possibly LCD?)
<sammm> Azelphur: Not really, WoW is just about who has the highest numbers on their axe
<ali1234> but then so does guild wars
<sammm> Azelphur: And who is highest level and has best gear
<ali1234> and all FPS games
<daftykins> HazRPG: ah. not really refresh rates then
<Azelphur> sammm: that's actually really wrong lol
<sammm> Azelphur: And who has the most unbalanced setups
<daftykins> 72 is odd though 0o
<sammm> Azelphur: Shhhhh troll
<Azelphur> I actually play the game, unlike you guys clearly :p
<Azelphur> but the fact is is that in PvE someone that knows the tactics, and knows how to play their class, is far better/more useful than someone who is geared
<Azelphur> and the two often don't come hand in hand
<sammm> Azelphur: PvE scrub
<ali1234> the problem with WoW is the whole world is so locked down you can't do anything interesting
<HazRPG> daftykins: ah, my old monitor was 72Hz, seems these ones are 60.02Hz according to NVIDIA X Server Settings...
<Azelphur> nah, I'm a PvP scrub too, I beat a level 60 guy when I was level 40 once :p
<Azelphur> and I used to take out people that was better geared than me all the time, although now I actually have gear so it's a faceroll most of the time :P
<daftykins> :>
<Azelphur> but yea, gear is a factor, but gear is as much of a factor as knowing your class, and having decent reaction times is too
<Azelphur> any one is useless without the others.
<HazRPG> Azelphur: much agreed!
<Azelphur> :)
<HazRPG> I currently play SC2... and well, I hate it when people say "such and such race is so OP!" when its not really true...
<Azelphur> hehe
<ali1234> of course it's not true
<ali1234> people never say that when it is actually true
<HazRPG> when said player has an APM of around 15 average :/
<daftykins> OP?
<ali1234> over powered
<HazRPG> trying to beat someone who has APM of 70-80 odd APM
<HazRPG> ali1234: beat me to it :P
<Azelphur> I'm quite good at WoW, Currently I'm the ranked the 38th mage on my server :p
<ali1234> if they really think that race is over powered, why don't they just play it?
<ali1234> but here's the thing
<ali1234> having every team exactly equal makes a boring game
<HazRPG> ali1234: that's what I always tell them, and their excuse "don't like that race..." lol
<Azelphur> ^ this too
<HazRPG> true!
<ali1234> it;s like when you're playing street fighter
<ali1234> everyone complains ryu is over powered
<ali1234> then you thrash them with e honda
<ali1234> and then they have nothing to say
 * Azelphur is an akuma pro
<HazRPG> however, in things like SC2, each race is /roughly/ equal... however, the order in which things are built, or the order of when you can get the same type of units vary considerably
<ali1234> lol, akuma is deliberately over powered, he's a boss damnit :)
<Azelphur> haha
<ali1234> you need characters like that too
<Azelphur> some days I'll go into 2v2's and have my ass handed to me, other days I'll go in and we'll kill them, laugh, resurrect them and kill them again
<Azelphur> (Actually did that once, so funny)
<ali1234> apparently street fighter has changed a lot since i last played it
<Azelphur> ali1234: yea, it's going the way of sonic
<Azelphur> the latest street fighter is seriously like playing in slow mo
<Azelphur> and they jump less distance than my grandma can.
<ali1234> so like tekken then?
<HazRPG> sf4 isn't fun imho... bought it, wished I didn't... tried to sell it on... but would have gotten much less than I paid for it (even though I only had it about a month)... so I kept it regardless, but its collecting dust :/
<Azelphur> ali1234: yea pretty much
<Azelphur> sf4 is collecting dust in my steam account, doesn't even work in Linux :(
<Azelphur> installed vista on my laptop just to try it, it made me a sad panda.
<ali1234> marvel vs capcom is the best street fighter game
<ali1234> on dreamcast ofc
<Azelphur> hehe
<HazRPG> ali1234: ofc! I still own both those \o/
<ali1234> my dreamcast broke :(
<Azelphur> mine did too
<Azelphur> it keeps rebooting itself
 * HazRPG stares at his DC to the left of me connected to my old CRT TV :)
<ali1234> you can connect them to VGA you know
<Azelphur> I'm going the way of emulation with everything console now anyway
<Azelphur> got rid of most of my old consoles
<HazRPG> ali1234: I know... this is just more old-school for me
<ali1234> DC emulators don't work :(
<ali1234> even gamecube emulators work better
<Azelphur> :(
<ali1234> even wii emulators...
<HazRPG> ali1234: if your talking about linux emulators... yeah, sadly ;(
<Azelphur> dolphin works quite well from what I've heard
<Azelphur> dolphin sounds pretty awesome
<ali1234> yeah it works well
<ali1234> can't run at full speed on my system though
<HazRPG> ali1234: there's a few windows DC emulators that work well - but not for all games :(
<Azelphur> hehe
<ali1234> it keeps improving though
<HazRPG> I looked into DC emu's for linux... and so far I haven't gotten any of them to do anything but boot the BIOS
<ali1234> i got powerstone working, just, with slightly messed up graphics
<ali1234> and messed up sound
<ali1234> and bad framerate
<ali1234> but it was just about playable
<HazRPG> :(
<HazRPG> I never understood why the DC died so abruptly like that... I mean so much work into the emu's went well... until like early to mid 2000... and then just halted :/
<daftykins> perhaps crow syndrome took over
<daftykins> "oh look, new shiny thing!"
<daftykins> i remember seeing that DC-on-a-PCI-card
<HazRPG> daftykins: oh?
<daftykins> yeah, i'd have guessed it was for devs but i think it came years after
<sammm> HazRPG: Are you any good at maths?
<HazRPG> sammm: erm... use to be at school/college, why?
<ball> HazRPN <- calculator joke ;-)
<sammm> HazRPG: Just wondering
<daftykins> nn all o/
<sammm> HazRPG: You're my friend :)
<daftykins> don't stay up too... much earlier 0o
<HazRPG> daftykins: night dude \o
<HazRPG> ball: ^_^
<AlanBell> itnet7: hi
<brobostigon> morning everyone.
<imexil> Morning.
<imexil> Anyone already on 11.10 beta? I'm struggeling to find the font and colour settings to modify the theme
<MartijnVdS> you can't?
<imexil> well the buttons for modifying a theme are gone
<imexil> You can only choose from a list of predefined settings but no change of the fonts or colours. I guess the settings are still there somewhere but now hidden from the user :(
 * popey sighs at sammm last night
<imexil> Perhaps somebody know what the actually app is called that normally takes care of changing theme fonts etc. That way I could directly launch that instead of relying on the new settings interface which doesn't give me the options I'm looking for.
<popey> i dont think such an app exists in the default install
<popey> it maybe you have to (for now) fiddle with xml files
<imexil> mmh,
<imexil> And I thought Unity was getting better ;)
<imexil> +
<popey> "patches welcome" as they say
<imexil> Well I'm on the user side so it's hard to provide a patch.
<imexil> On the other hand, some one must have removed that funcionality on purpose without an alternative ... :( that way users get stuck in their workings
<imexil> OK enough complains, I just hoped someone might know how to access the settings even in the new Unity
<AlanBell> imexil: I suspect that is a gnome thing rather than a unity thing
<imexil> Right. But that doesn't help me either ;)
<gordonjcp> imexil: the real answer is to switch to XFCE4 until either gnome or unity are usable
<AlanBell> true enough
<imexil> Well that was the option for 11.04 but I thought should no longer be necessary for 11.10
<popey> ho ho ho
<popey> s/11.10/12.04/
<popey> etc
<imexil> So why do they "force" all users to Unitiy already in 11.10 again? :)
<MartijnVdS> Nobody is forced.
<gordonjcp> every so often I try unity but I just can't work with it
<popey> indeed, hence the scare quotes
<imexil> The thing is, I like dog fooding. So when I migrated my wife to Unity in 11.04 I also like to stay on that one even though I might be more comfortable with XFCE etc. This is purely for support reasons (she likes the interface).
<AlanBell> my kids seem to cope with the interface just fine
<imexil> But I also need to be able to do some customisations which I can no longer do in 11.10
<imexil> AlanBell: which one Unity of XFCE?
<AlanBell> unity
<popey> imexil: you can do
<popey> imexil: you just do it in a different way
<imexil> hence my original question... where can I find it now :)
<gordonjcp> AlanBell: right, but presumably they haven't been using Unix desktops for 20 years
<popey> imexil: well, you didnt actually tell us what setting you wanted to change
<imexil> I need to change the background colour of text boxes since some qt apps don't work properly
<popey> isnt that a qt theme setting?
<imexil> well in the past it was simply via "rightclick on desktop --> change background --> modify theme etc"
<imexil> and that helped
<popey> that probably fiddles something in gconf / gsettings
<imexil> I'm not saying that it is not the fault of the qt app but at least changing the background colour helped in the past
<popey> hey ikonia you know that thing that you said I 'liked' on facebook. i see you 'like' it.
<popey> marked as spam
<imexil> And you think the tool to do this without knowing html colour codes is gone?
<popey> pass. i am not at an ubuntu machine so cant look
<imexil> ok. Well I try to copy the colour code of "text_color" to "tooltip_fg_colo" (this is the actually setting I needed to change) and just hope I don't have to explain to a Windows/mac user what I had to do to get my tool tips back ;)
<hoover> good morning
<czajkowski> Good morning all
<selinuxium> morning czajkowski   o/
<bigcalm> Good morning czajkowski and other awake peeps
<selinuxium> Morning all    o/
<DJones> Off topic windows question, does anybody know if its possible to install IE8 alongside IE9 on windows 7
<bigcalm> DJones: add 'standalone' to your search terms
<DJones> Thanks, looking now, from what else I've read though, IE9 seems to replace IE8 regardless
<bigcalm> Pretty much, yes
<DJones> *%$**&$Â£ system, browser based database/finance/etc system, only works in IE6/7/8
 * DJones looks for firefox & user agent switcher
<bigcalm> Eugh
<DJones> bigcalm: No need to be so polite about it, I'm not happy with it
<JamesTait> Morning all!
<oimon> has a question about IRL...
<oimon> if you friends parent dies and you are sending a sympathy card to him and his remaining parent, how would you address it?
<oimon> to fred + mrs bloggs? to fred?
<popey> i would send to fred
<popey> and mention we're thinking of him and his family
<oimon> he also lives with his mum. don't know if that changes stuff
<popey> do you know her at all?
<oimon> sounds sensible
<oimon> not really
<bigcalm> Send to Fred then
<oimon> cheers guys
<bigcalm> I hope his name is Fred
<oimon> goig to the funeral aswell i think :-\ time to learn this etiquette thing
<popey> ugh
<popey> luckily I haven't been to a funeral for years
<oimon> i've only ever been to 2 , one each for granparents
<popey> guess we all go to more as we get older
<oimon> sorry for depressing everyone!
<oimon> new subject
<bigcalm> Kittens please
<oimon> next best thing:
<TheOpenSourcerer> http://www.greatcurryrecipes.net/2011/10/04/rack-of-lamb-with-cashew-and-coriander-sauce/
<bigcalm> Something for web devs: http://placekitten.com/
 * popey has a migrane
<oimon> a doggy that watches TV http://ubuntuone.com/4lPPF5NDswRaneNKEHtqZc
<oimon> Mr Benn to be exact
 * popey sings the mr benn theme to himself
<TheOpenSourcerer> Hope it clears soon popey - I have never had one myself but those I know who get them make it sound really nasty.
<oimon> it was the pirate episode
<popey> is that an hp touchpad?
<oimon> popey: yes
<oimon> my son loves it
<popey> :D
<oimon> its a great childrens entertainment device
<TheOpenSourcerer> Thought this was quite funny: http://news.techeye.net/mobile/apples-iphone-4s-a-lemon Apple fanboys need not read it.
<popey> haha, trolololo
<popey> "antenna which dropped a phone call when you touched it,
<popey> "
<TheOpenSourcerer> "you get locked into Steve Jobs' Walled Garden of Delights which is like  being jailed for life in Disneyland in a Kafkaesque nightmare.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Read more:  http://news.techeye.net/mobile/apples-iphone-4s-a-lemon#ixzz1ZtYCc78D"
<popey> only people who _dont_ have an iphone4 repeat that line over and over
<popey> i have one, my wife has one, about 5 people in my office have one, none of us suffer from dropped calls the way anti-apple people claim
<oimon> phone calls? wow i remember those
<TheOpenSourcerer> (09:41:25) TheOpenSourcerer: ... Apple fanboys need not read it.
<TheOpenSourcerer> ;-)
 * popey sighs
<oimon> some swine nicked my choc milkshake from the office fridge :(
<popey> get tired of being called an apple fanboy
<Myrtti> I cant believe people still care what phone others have
<DJones> If it works and does what you want, its the ideal phone for you
<AlanBell> my blackberry is not working http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAG39jKi0lI
<oimon> has anyone else noticed a reduction in facebook traffic since their changes last fortnight ago? either less of my "friends" using it or i'm seeing less updates
<shauno> I've noticed that I miss the vast majority of updates unless I pull people's pages up one by one.  which is a bit of a pain, since my family use it for most their communications now :/
<DJones> My mother-in-law has the cheapest, simplest mobile phone going, big buttons, she makes & receives calls, sends & receives texts. Thats all she wants
<oimon> shauno: since the changes?
<shauno> oimon: yeah.  since they decided it's up to them to decide what's news-worthy and what isn't
<oimon> i thought i saw an option to subscribe to all of a person's updates, but you could only do that on a one-by-one basis
<popey> \o/ Jabber
<MattJ> Jabber \o/
 * MattJ is back from an IRC holiday
<popey> Did you go anywhere nice?
<MattJ> New York
<oimon> icqland?
<popey> haha
<MattJ> Though I'm not convinced about the "nice", I'm glad to be back :P
<popey> icq
<popey> 11317622
 * MattJ adds popey
<MattJ> </joke> (I stopped using ICQ years ago)
<oimon> tbh i'm surprised that irc still works ;)
<MartijnVdS> 6968589
<DJones> oimon: I only see facebook updates via gwibber at home
<oimon> 08001111
<Seeker`> Jabber \o/
<MattJ> Jabber \o/
<TheOpenSourcerer> Ouch - http://piana.eu/
<MartijnVdS> That page offends me. Now it has to go offline.
<oimon> tl;dr
<MartijnVdS> oimon: new (proposed?) italian law that demands that stuff gets taken down if it's offensive, even if it's true
<MartijnVdS> i.e. censor ALL THE THINGS
<popey> you're offending me
 * popey shuts down freenode
<MartijnVdS> :'(
<oimon> "offensive" is subjective
<MartijnVdS> oimon: Exactly
 * gord crosses fingers and hopes pulse will play nice after an upgrade
<gord> why is pulse still so crap :(
<oimon> i wonder if the vatican comes under italian juridisction
<AlanBell> no, it doesn't
<AlanBell> mostly
<shauno> isn't the sensible answer to simply not host it.wp in italy?
<AlanBell> oimon: it has italian law forked as of 1929
<MartijnVdS> Before fiddling with young boys was illegal?
<AlanBell> funnily enough, the age of consent in the Vatican is 12
<oimon> there's lots of bribes and stuff to pass around in the italian parliament before any law is made anyway
<TheOpenSourcerer> You are joking? AlanBell
<oimon> "As a result, the age of consent is 14, theÂ same as Italy's."
<oimon> [wikipedia]
<AlanBell> http://www.qi.com/talk/viewtopic.php?p=768701
 * AlanBell blames Stephen Fry
<shauno> seems that's relatively recent; as of 1st jan 2009
<davmor2> morning all
<bigcalm> Morning davmor2
<davmor2> bigcalm: so we'll all met up in the coffee shop I think will be the easiest
<davmor2> bigcalm: in through the main door up into the main area and then it's on the right
<bigcalm> davmor2: perfect
<gord> are you guys having a secret meeting without me? because that is mean
<davmor2> gord: if you lived closer you'd be expected to turn up
<gord> you should always be expecting gord, to do otherwise would be a fatal mistake
<gordonjcp> no-one expects the... oh.
<davmor2> gord: the lighthouse where LRL was for a couple of years has a basically disused works space area we thought we'd start using it once a month-ish and then they can publicise it etc we'll see how it goes
<bigcalm> I'm relying upon a lift from my lovely lady in the morning to get to the train station. If she is awake in time, I can get the 08:08 train and be in for 08:36. If not, then it'll be the 08:51 and be in for 09:08 :S
<bigcalm> Considering that she doesn't usually leave the house until 08:10, I will have to be extra nice to her tonight
<davmor2> bigcalm: nice
<bigcalm> I'd rather be on time for the 1st meeting
<bigcalm> If this works out, are we looking for it to be a monthly thing?
<gordonjcp> what's it a meeting about?
<gordonjcp> alt-wolves-lug?
<davmor2> bigcalm: yeap I think that was the general plan meet up once a month probably always a on Thursday
<davmor2> gordonjcp: nope just meet up and do you're normal day job but from there instead of at home
<bigcalm> Seems resonable
<gordonjcp> davmor2: oh, instead of working from home
<gordonjcp> yeah, that's a really neat idea
<bigcalm> Told my boss about it and he thinks it's a great idea. I wonder if I can get him to pay the train fair ;)
<gordonjcp> I bet mine won't
<davmor2> gordonjcp, bigcalm: hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
<bigcalm> o.O
<bigcalm> 7.10 for a return fair. Think I can afford that
<bigcalm> Bah, Synergy doesn't transmit shift + 3
<bigcalm> Or shift + `
<selinuxium> Hmmm linux.com has been down for days...
<AlanBell> anyone want to go to a potentially interesting interactive workshop with the Cabinet Office transparency team on Monday in Whitehall?
<AlanBell> it relates to this in some way -> http://data.gov.uk/opendataconsultation
<AlanBell> monday afternoon, 1pm-4pm
<czajkowski> AlanBell: tempting but I'd likely throttle people
<AlanBell> ooh please go!
<davmor2> czajkowski: prod
<davmor2> czajkowski: you throttle mp's you need to go :)
<AlanBell> this will just be civil servants to throttle
<czajkowski> AlanBell: not what I had in mind
<czajkowski> :)
<czajkowski> davmor2: do not poke me I'm liable to kill
<czajkowski> windows ate all my pencil work
<czajkowski> Most flipping annoying
<davmor2> Yeah but you used windows that was your first mistake :P
<bigcalm> davmor2: I need you to stay alive until at least Friday. Please be careful :P
<AlanBell> davmor2: are you coming down for the replease?
<davmor2> czajkowski: here have a biscuit and remember to save every change you make as you make it
<davmor2> AlanBell: I'm hoping too just depends on funds currently
<davmor2> AlanBell: besides someone needs to be there to rag on czajkowski :D
 * AlanBell looks up the verb to rag
<AlanBell> 6. break into lumps before sorting
<davmor2> AlanBell: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=rag%20on
<bigcalm> The urban dictionary does amuse me, but the language used in some of the meanings is less than pleasant when it doesn't need to be
<bigcalm> O
<bigcalm> M
<bigcalm> G
<bigcalm> The Imperial is in Wolverhampton. How will I resist tomorrow?
<kirrus> bigcalm: you're doomed.
<bigcalm> kirrus: my wallet and weight are, yes
<czajkowski> davmor2: you must be due a millbank invasion soon
<czajkowski> I will remember
<czajkowski> and I will throttle you
<bigcalm> Happy families :)
<czajkowski> bigcalm: look when we're nice to one another it freaks people out
<czajkowski> it's best to be consistent if nothing else
<bigcalm> :D
<GirlyGirl> Hi
<brobostigon> afternoonings GirlyGirl
<DJones> Arghhhh. Comment from new system developers, the reason its not working well is because your computers aren't up to required standards.......OK, that would explain why the 6 year old P4, 512Mb ram runs the system perfectly, but the 6 month old i5, 4Gb ram machines take 5 minutes to connect to the system.....
<davmor2> czajkowski: indeed there is also a testing meeting on the 13th too that might be interesting
<davmor2> czajkowski: MooDoo is the one you need down Soufff anyway being as he still owes you a drink
<gord> i don't quite get why there are so many people that suggest you use mint whenever anyone suggests ubuntu
<oimon> gord: mainly kids i guess :)
<oimon> is there something you can suggest in return thats "cooler" or better than mint?
<gord> maybe i should make a derivative of mint that just changes the background to blue, call it "cool mint"
<oimon> mint ice :P
<GirlyGirl> gord: I've seen those a lot ... mainly directed at people who like the Gnome 2x look
<GirlyGirl> over unity and shell that is
<GirlyGirl> I think mint does not have unity
<oimon> there's really only one showstopper for me using unity :(
<GirlyGirl> oimon: What would that be?
<oimon> GirlyGirl: quicklist support for showing open terminal windows like docky does. i usually have 30-50 open and the expose view just isn't useful for that many. tabbed terminal and terminator don't cut it either
<GirlyGirl> oimon: So what DE do you use then?
<oimon> gnome2 right now
<GirlyGirl> oimon: What is this docky thing?
 * GirlyGirl has no idea how docky works being a long time kde user
<oimon> it's a launcher/dock a bit like the unity one.
<oimon> most other docks have the same functionality.
<oimon> i need a dock because the window chooser on the gnome panel becomes . . . . . instead of descriptions when you have a lot
<GirlyGirl> oimon: What about windows 7 style icon only indicators
<oimon> GirlyGirl: not sure what they are
<popey> why do you have so many open?
<GirlyGirl> oimon: Like this http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/291/snapshothd.png/ (see the kde bar)
<oimon> http://ubuntuone.com/1RCVf5KISvIGSg2IhfsU3g
<oimon> popey: getting things done, multitasking etc
<popey> you have at least 4 there on the same box
<GirlyGirl> oimon: Can't you use tabs
<popey> surely screen is more efficient?
<popey> in fact there's about 10 on one box
<oimon> that's my own box
<oimon> the rest are servers and user's boxes
<oimon> this is a typical use case for many sysadmins
<popey> sysadmins who don't know screen âº
<oimon> screen has its uses
<gord> i think having eight billion items in a quicklist is the optimal solution here :)
<gord> is not *
<gord> english sucks :(
<oimon> gord: it's dynamic though
<Seeker`> it looks like oimon is doing it....oh....whats the word
<gord> a tab completable screen instance sounds like a better idea
<Seeker`> ah, thats it, "wrong"
<popey> i was learning english at school yesterday
<popey> SSSSSS AAAAAAA TTTTTTT
<popey> jolly phonics
<gord> so say you wanted to get to foo@rawr:/home/bar you'd just do <somekeyboarcombination>:fo<tab>/ho<tab> and get there
<oimon> this quicklist shows me all the terminal windows i have open on my box currently
<oimon> they aren't shortcuts for getting to boxes, they are windows
<gord> yup, you are very used to the way you do things now, i get that
<popey> i still fail to see why you need 10 local terminals
<popey> one and the CTRL+A, C.
<popey> *bam* new window
<oimon> tailing logs, running pings, copying files,
<oimon> copy pasting
<GirlyGirl> oimon: Tabs??
<Seeker`> popey: or terminator (if that still exists)
<popey> ok I will rephrase
<popey> i still fail to see why you have 10 shells in completely separate windows
<gord> but say you had a screen instance, which has all your ssh sessions you setup, going everywhere, then got around them using tab completion, it sounds like a much easier way of handing the same problem without changing your ui
<Seeker`> screen also means that if you accidentally close the window, you can still get your windows back
<gord> this would be why people for example, get around irssi with numbers, instead of having one window open per channel they go to, because that would be a pain for all infolved
<oimon> i can see why some people do that, but having multiple windows open is easier
<oimon> especially for comparing data and copy pasting
<Seeker`> oimon: terminator
<popey> \o/ split screen
<oimon> doesn't work for 30 windows
<oimon> i've tried
 * oimon wonders where all the sysadmins are to back me up
 * popey notes that he is a sysadmin
<popey> dont think that just because you do this and you're a sysadmin, and I don't, that I'm not one
<popey> we have ~200 boxes I ssh to
<popey> having 200 windows open is nuts
<popey> oooo, it's time for the watch wallpaper!
<GirlyGirl> oimon: popey: The IE6 way lol
<gord> watch wallpaper?
 * BigRedS is a sysadmin using terminator + screen
<BigRedS> I tend to have a few xterms knocking around, but only from when I'm imatiently wanting to host or dig something
<popey> gord: the new wallpapers in 11.10
<popey> the watch one is lovely
<popey> https://plus.google.com/108611501090787019364/posts
<popey> dunno if that will work
<popey> bah, no
<popey> https://plus.google.com/108611501090787019364/posts/T7HtHKsdxkj
<popey> that!
<oimon> tabs kind of solves the problem because you can click tabs and see a list of open sessions. but you get an ugly row of tabs
<GirlyGirl> oimon: Your way you get an ugly list on the dock
<gord> oooh right yeah
<gord> i'v only really checked out the new wallpapers fleetingly to check my colour matching code worked with them
<BigRedS> I have that row at the bottom of screen with all my screens on it, terminator split so it's mostly that screen session, with a box for irc and a box for a local shell, and sometimes tabs, too, if I'm feeling particularly perverse
<Seeker`> gord: colour matching code?
<popey> Seeker`: the launcher and dash background changes colour based on the desktop
<popey> its quite nice
<GirlyGirl> Scared to go on #ubuntu now, yesterday this guy sends me the danger command by pm when I never asked him anything and then goes and complains to ops that I sent him the command
<popey> pffft
<BigRedS> the danger command?
<popey> dont make a big deal out of it, and go in and help people
<GirlyGirl> yup
<popey> or get helped
<popey> BigRedS: rm with /
<BigRedS> oh
<Seeker`> I think there are a few things that prompt a !danger response
<Seeker`> I think triggering it for rm with / is superfluous now, isn't it?
<BigRedS> yeah, it doesn't let you
<popey> aaaanyway
<GirlyGirl> http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/10/04/%23ubuntu-ops.html
<popey> GirlyGirl: as I said, move on, go in and help or dont, dont make a big deal out of it
<GirlyGirl> popey: I will
<BigRedS> I always read that as 'I R clogs'...
 * popey puts his wood shoes on
<shauno> getting a good chuckle out of popey being a fanboi ;)
<Seeker`> anyone that doesn't hate apple is a fanboi?
<popey> apparently
<Seeker`> Or are you talking about his love for clogs?
<popey> mmmm clogs
<oimon> infra red clogs
<shauno> I gotta say you're not very good at it.  we need to sort that podcast out for a start.  nowhere near enough apple there
<Seeker`> the people that are complaining that they should have done a "5" instead of a "4s" are only annoyed because it has the same case so people can't see they have the latest/greatest from a mile off
<popey> once ios5 comes out I'll probably slap ubuntu on the kitchen computer
<popey> maybe :D
<shauno> I'm kinda glad they only went with the S.  for once, I don't feel so oddly compelled to run out and throw my money at them
<Seeker`> and the people that are saying "zomg galaxy s ii" don't get the point that an iphone works well for me, does everything I need/want it to, at a price I am willing to pay
<popey> but you're directly funding terrorism!
<popey> I mean, Apple
<popey> No, wait.
<bigcalm> Haha
<popey> never mind.
<Seeker`> shauno: it's kinda obvious they are doing an intel-esque tick-tock routine atm. Given that phone contracts are at least 18 months long atm, they don't really expect people will be buying a new phone every year
<popey> some do
<shauno> mostly just getting kicks out of it because I sit in more than one mac-orientated channel.  so popey is *tame* compared to what I'm used to
<brobostigon> out of curiosity, how much does a recent iphone cost, network free, and unlocked?
<Seeker`> popey: some do, but they are the people that will buy them whatever they produce
<shauno> contract/simlock free, I think around the 750 euro mark
<brobostigon> shauno: nothing at all, so i can use my current sim in it?
<popey> Seeker`: see, i disagree with that
<oimon> didn't apple ban giveaways of their products in case it damaged the "reassuringly expensive" element of their brand?
<Seeker`> they just need to do an appearance refresh one year and a hardware refresh the next. That way people that upgrade every other model when their contract expires
<shauno> brobostigon, yup, as required by law in a small handful of european countries
<brobostigon> shauno: so with both those conditions being true, handset alone, Â£750~ ?
<shauno> I believe so.  haven't looked for over a year
<popey> uhm
<brobostigon> that is pretty expensive.
<popey> iphone 3gs is 320 quid
<popey> unlocked
<brobostigon> oh, i see.
<popey> iphone 4 is 429 unlocked
<popey> brobostigon: he said 750 EUR, not GBP
<brobostigon> ah, thats alot of difference.
<brobostigon> popey: ah, i misunderstood.
<oimon> htc desire S sim free Â£309
<brobostigon> sorry shauno .
<davmor2> popey: Iphone 5 then is 520-ish quid then yes?
<popey> 500
<Seeker`> popey: There are people that will upgrade every year regardless. There are also people that will upgrade every time if they change their appearance, and there are people (probably companies) that don't "care" about the cost of buying out contracts / spend enough to be able to upgrade their contracts nearly
<popey> 4S, not 5
<Seeker`> *yearly
<shauno> I was looking around 700-750 when the 4 was new.  and I was specifically looking for factory unlocked instead of aftermarket.  just offering it as the only pricepoint I found (for those conditions)
<davmor2> popey: I was going by the number and the general change to the first digit :)
<popey> yeah, i got my iphone4 unlocked direct from apple
<popey> ah
<oimon> because you're a known fanboi :)
<popey> because I already had a contract
<popey> but lets not let facts get in the way
<popey> silly facts
<shauno> I think at the time I could only find orange.fr and one other .. I think belgian or dutch?
<Myrtti> ladida.
<Seeker`> hey miss Myrtti
<davmor2> popey: The Samsung Galaxy II isn't that much nor the Moto Atrix, nor some of the tablets you can get infact
<popey> thinking about it, I am due for a free upgrade soon
 * popey phones orange
<gord> geez iphones are damn expensive for what they are
<gord> wonder how much it costs them to produce
<gord> wonder if the packaging costs more ;)
<davmor2> gord: Â£20 and a whip
<DJones> popey: Up/down-grade to an Xperia Play to give you minecraft pocket edition :)
<popey> hah
<Myrtti> Seeker`: ohai
<oimon> if you open a packet of crisps and find they are stale, do you carry eating?
<popey> i tend not to
<popey> just because i dont like soft crisps
<oimon> i nearly always do, but then eat another packet to erase the memory
<oimon> stale niknaks are actually OK if a little polystyreney
<popey> heh
<popey> i want crisps now
 * popey goes to the cupboard and will return with crisps
<popey> and a candle, some chalk and a chicken to sacrifice to damn oimon
<gord> man... why don't i keep crisps in my cupboards
<popey> http://i.imgur.com/DteY4.png
<oimon> i have another unopened 10 pack of nik naks
<davmor2> gord: you do it's just you eat them
<gord> davmor2, those don't even make it to the cupboard :P
 * oimon also has harbio
<shauno> hm, unlocked from apple is 500eur for the 8GB model here.  that probably explains my 200eur gap; I went for the 32
<popey> \o/ pringles & dips
<popey> him and his crazy eur currency
<shauno> lol
<shauno> it was like that when I got here :/
<oimon> indian $35 tablet news: http://www.ndtv.com/article/technology/basics-of-worlds-cheapest-tablet-aakash-138843
<brobostigon> very weird, my phone reports acceleration, when it is stationary on my lap.
<shauno> altho I dare say if they were still using the irish pound, it'd make the conversation even more confusing
<oimon> brobostigon: gravity is acceleration towards the centre of the earth
<Seeker`> brobostigon: is it reporting 1g downwards?
<brobostigon> Seeker`: .18 g
<brobostigon> oimon: yes, that i knew, but if it is standing still, then why is it reporting such.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: because it can't know the difference
<MartijnVdS> "We" (humans) don't know of a way to distinguish between "acceleration" and "gravity"
<popey> http://www.theonion.com/audio/new-angerpowered-cars-may-revolutionize-the-way-we,26244/
<popey> brilliant
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/198982/how-to-do-gesture-recognition-using-accelerometers
<brobostigon> so it is reporting acceleration, even if it stationary. because it cant tell the difference, between being in acceleration and being staionary?
<oimon> maybe your house is in freefall right now
<MartijnVdS> or that ;)
<Seeker`> brobostigon: there is a downwards force acting on it, is there not?
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: check the stackoverflow link
<brobostigon> Seeker`: correct, yes,
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: i am doing so. :
<brobostigon> :)
<Seeker`> and force = mass x acceleration?
<MartijnVdS> you can deduce orientation from the gravity vector :)
<brobostigon> hmm,
<MartijnVdS> (because you _know_ gravity)
<MartijnVdS> (unless you plan on moving between planets/moons often)\
<MartijnVdS> (and even then, you could detect the change from the local GPS environment, and update the "g" constant)
<MartijnVdS> ("Moon-GPS", "Mars-GPS" etc)
<popey> MartijnVdS: we considered moving to mars. the moving costs were fine but the atmosphere stinks
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: minute, i am reading that link.
<MartijnVdS> popey: 8-)
<oimon> the bandwidth  is probably a bit ropey too
<shauno> I'd imagine their latency would be on par with ntl's :/
<MartijnVdS> j.p.c
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Dave Morris] Ubuntu and Android for whole house audio - http://davemorris.wordpress.com/2011/10/05/ubuntu-and-android-for-whole-house-audio/
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: that was a good read. it makes sense now.
 * AlanBell is heading into london soonish
<czajkowski> why the invasion
<AlanBell> OpenERP partner community meetup
<AlanBell> Waxy O Connors
<czajkowski> http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/291839_10150405785320348_685550347_10173048_2056945624_n.jpg
<czajkowski> AlanBell: TAYTOS!!!!!
<AlanBell> yeah, and water at Â£5.50 a bottle
<czajkowski> AlanBell: dont have water
<AlanBell> don't worry, I will stick to the black stuff
<czajkowski> http://www.computerworlduk.com/news/it-business/3308648/samsung-greets-news-of-iphone-4s-with-new-lawsuit/
<AlanBell> good, and I hope Apple retaliate
<AlanBell> injunctions are good for making people realise that the patent system is broken and not working in the interest of society
<czajkowski> hmm how do I get a p60 when the company will not send me one I want to claim my tax back
<AlanBell> wait for the tax return, it will all come out in the wash
<czajkowski> the what ?
<AlanBell> self assessment tax return, you fill out everything on that, takes ages and you get a refund
<AlanBell> I think you can ask for one of them if you don't get sent one
<DJones> AlanBell: Don't always get a tax return if you only have salaried employment though
<AlanBell> you can ask for one though
<oimon> p60 only contains a summary of information that has been supplied on your payslips though?
<czajkowski> oimon: which I need to send to HRM or a letter of earnings on headed notepaper to claim my tax back
<czajkowski> me giving my payslips doesnt count for sugar
<oimon> ah :-(
<DJones> czajkowski: Just realised, a P60 is only issued at the end of the tax year
<oimon> my employer has gone electronic with payslips and p60 in their wisdon
<czajkowski> DJones: aye last May
<bigcalm> Indeed
<oimon> they should send a p45 when you left tho
<DJones> Info should be on the P45
<czajkowski> which I never got a copy of
<czajkowski> poh I could g on
<czajkowski> but I cant drink atm as not at work
<DJones> Are you able to request a duplicate of the P45? I'm guessing not
<czajkowski> done
<czajkowski> then I went on job seekers so got a P45 from them for here so am ok in that regard
<czajkowski> just got a letter from them saying they want to give me tax back but need my p60
<czajkowski> and around in circles I go
<DJones> Must admit, I've never seen a company send out a P60 for an employee thats previously had a P45
<czajkowski> DJones: you still get one and technically I was thre when a P60 should ahve been issued before i left by about a week
<DJones> Right, so this is tax for a prior year before the P45 was issued
<czajkowski> DJones: mind if I pm
<DJones> Go for it
<oimon> you can tell a CEO of a company by the way they type entire emails on the subject line , with no body.
<brobostigon> lol
<DJones> oimon: The directors here do the opposite, no subject & a one line email in the body
<bigcalm> DJones: is it 'UNSUBSCRIBE' ?
<oimon> just as bad, especially when sorting mail by subject
<oimon> bigcalm: lol
<oimon> i love it when people reply to list with personal stuff "hey barry how's the rash?"
<DJones> bigcalm: Thankfully not
<oimon> remind me not to upgrade stuff unless there's a compelling feature
<oimon> thunderbird 6 is laggy compared to the smooth v3
<shauno> oimon: you mean you don't want firefox 10 yet?
 * Myrtti has had a day full of frustration and anger
<gord> so overcast that i have to turn on the big light in the middle of the day, this is the uk autumn i'm used to
<Myrtti> topped up with a headache, I feel altogether miserable
<DJones> I wish you hadn't mentioned headaches
<czajkowski> DJones: *hugs*
<DJones> Did that idea work
<oimon> SAD lamp FTW
<Azelphur> Is there an archive manager for XFCE that doesn't suck? After things like drag/drop and updating files inside an archive
<czajkowski> DJones: rang em, plan B send job center letter stating they want to give me tax back but missing p60 to liverpool so I can get new tax code for employer
<DJones> Right, sounds like progress anyway
<brobostigon> interesting, cameron claiming supporting gay marriage, is the conservative thing to do.
<directhex> covering table legs because legs are sexually provocative is the conservative thing to do
<gord> Azelphur, can't you just use file-roller like everyone else?
<directhex> saying "yeah, sure, whatevs" is liberal
<Azelphur> gord When you try and drag and drop with file roller, it glitches out, and then totally locks down the mouse pointer rendering the entire system unusable
<Azelphur> have to drop to a tty and kill it to get your pointer back
<brobostigon> directhex: it was simply somewhat unexpected, really.
<gord> sounds like a bug to me
<Azelphur> probably
<czajkowski> DJones: 600 quid is a lot to walk away on
<DJones> czajkowski: Certainly is, I don't think anybody would be happy doing that
<czajkowski> DJones: indeed
<czajkowski> there was a why didnt you get it
<czajkowski> have you tried to get it
<DJones> Sounds typical
<oimon> analysis of most vulnerable windows programs. top 3 are also linux ones too. thankfully we have ability to update from repos. http://net-security.org/malware_news.php?id=1863
<Azelphur> how would I create an alias so that gtk-update-icon-cache always runs with the -t param?
<Azelphur> ugly workaround for a package not installing, will undo it once the package is installed
<Laney> can't you edit the package's maintainer script which is running the program to add it?
<Laney> alternatively, dpkg-divert.
<Azelphur> Laney: doesn't seem easy :/
<Azelphur> what's dpkg-divert?
<Laney> lets you move the original file out of the way so you can install a script which calls it with the modified options
<mag123> Hello, does anyone know how to make ath5k in buntu 8.10 work? I used this tutorial first time few years ago, and it worked(usinf madwifi and ath pci) : https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WifiDocs/Driver/Atheros but this time i cant make it work, any ideas?
<brobostigon> !8.10
<lubotu3> Ubuntu 8.10 (Intrepid Ibex) was the ninth release of Ubuntu. End Of Life: April 30th, 2010. See !eol and !upgrade for more details.
<brobostigon> it is EOL, unsupported.
<mag123> yeah but i ve really bad equipment and it sucks with newer versions ;/ thats y i decided to go back to 8.10
<brobostigon> have you installed, the reuired packages for that kernel module, and then insmod'ed it?
<brobostigon> required*
<mag123> u mean  linux-backports-modules-intrepid ?
<brobostigon> i canot remember, probebly best to do a search on packages.ubuntu.com
<mag123> thats wht they recommend but most of it cant be found ;/
<DJones> If its EOL, the packages will have been removed from packages.ubuntu.com
<brobostigon> ah, good point, isnt there the eol package repo?
<DJones> There is http://old-releases.ubuntu.com/releases/ butI'm not sure what the format is to amend your sources.list to use that
<brobostigon> good question.
<mag123> ;/ how about 9.04 is it still supported?
<DJones> Ah, may help (different version, but should be same format) http://soniahamilton.wordpress.com/2009/05/02/apt-sourceslist-for-old-versions-of-ubuntu/
<brobostigon> !9.04
<lubotu3> Ubuntu 9.04 (Jaunty Jackalope) was the tenth release of Ubuntu. End Of Life: October 23, 2010. See !eol and !upgrade for more details.
<bigcalm> !9.10
<lubotu3> Ubuntu 9.10 (Karmic Koala) was the eleventh release of Ubuntu. !End-Of-Life on April 29th 2011, see http://goo.gl/UUTAB for details.
<bigcalm> !10.04
<lubotu3> Ubuntu 10.04 LTS (Lucid Lynx) was the twelfth release of Ubuntu. Download http://releases.ubuntu.com/10.04/ - Release Info: http://www.ubuntu.com/getubuntu/releasenotes/1004 - Supported until April 2013 (Desktop), April 2015 (Server)
<mag123> ok guys, thx for ur help, will give it a try and bother u again if dont succed ;)
<brobostigon> we didnt give a complete solution?
<DJones> 10.04 is probably the oldest version still supoported
<bigcalm> It is
<bigcalm> And it's the last version that my viglen mpc-l will support
<bigcalm> Or the other way around :)
<brobostigon> if it is a old hw as he suggested, i would have used debian insted pf ubuntu, as it is lighter.
<DJones> I'd be tempted to try xubuntu or lubuntu
<brobostigon> and he could use the most recent version.
<oimon> bigcalm: what doesn't work on newer versions with your viglen?
<bigcalm> oimon: I think the CPU isn't supported past 10.04
 * bigcalm shrugs
<bigcalm> It's acting as a file server for my parents. No need to upgrade it really
<oimon> bigcalm: http://appleby.is-a-geek.net/mpcl/index.html
<oimon> this guy reckons it works
<oimon> might just need some kernel params  "pnpbios=off pci=noacpi"
<bigcalm> It's always needed noacpi, otherwise it doesn't boot
<bigcalm> Down side to that is that if the power button is knocked some how, the machine turns off instantly
<oimon> heh
<oimon> i'm about to hide a acer aspire revo into a wall cavity
<gord> careful it doesn't overheat
<oimon> hope that it is stable since i don't fancy unscrewing the wall panel to reboot manually
<gord> revo's like to produce a loot of heat
<oimon> hmm
<bigcalm> They do
<oimon> it's next to an air vent
<bigcalm> But then I'm maxing out mine most of the time. It's my web dev server
<oimon> my will show a firefox page in kiosk mode
<gord> try not to hit the gpu
<gord> ie: don't use compositing
<gord> force the cpu to underclock
<czajkowski> gord: one for you http://twitpic.com/6vi131
<oimon> had it running on my desk for 6 months and seemed ok for heat, although my room is bigger than the ceiling cavity at work
<gord> why do you torment me so =\
<DJones> I don't know why, but I was expecting that to be a picture of a cat
<czajkowski> gord: because I've no davmor2 to torment and Moodoo we've been through this
<gord> czajkowski, my rebuttal http://ubuntuone.com/0iIVefCBJtSIqslsJxcrUi
<czajkowski> :)
<davmor2> czajkowski: Stop picking on gord or so help me I'll tickle you
 * czajkowski peers at davmor2 you_wouldn't_dare
<davmor2> gord: see I'll stick up for you bud :)
 * gord hides behind davmor2 
<czajkowski> gord: think that'll save you do you
<davmor2> czajkowski: You're daring me to tickle you that's like waving a red flag at a bull :P
<gord> czajkowski, i think it will put davmor2 between you and me, the perfect distraction
<davmor2> czajkowski: no but it'll slow you down greatly so he can run away :P
<gord> don't need to be faster than the polar bear, just faster than the davmor2 and all that
<davmor2> gord: hahaha
<davmor2> just need to be further away to start with oh wait you are
<czajkowski> gord: so I'm a polar bear eh
<czajkowski> really......
 * czajkowski peers at gord 
<gord> was being nice, typed grizzly bear at first :P thought polar was the nicer of the two
<davmor2> gord: hahaha wise man say when in hole stop digging :)
 * czajkowski pushes gord into the hole he has dug with davmor2 and throws grit down! now shrup ye pups 
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: depends on where you want to go ;)
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: To hell obviously :D
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: not Australia? :)
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: you'd need to hit the core of the earth at some point to do that and burn in hell for the privilege
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: minor inconveniences
<czajkowski> why is it the last 20 mins DRAG!
<bigcalm> They only drag if you aren't enjoying the work
<czajkowski> I#'m writing a document on how to lay out a testing plan for future reference for all platforms
<davmor2> czajkowski: they only drag if you're not dong work :P
 * czajkowski kicks davmor2 oi 
<czajkowski> behave you
<ali1234> i think i need some tool to reap out of control flash processes http://paste.ubuntu.com/702846/
<davmor2> czajkowski: Really who do you think you just said that too ;)
 * bigcalm spends the last 20ish mins getting things ready for tomorrow
<bigcalm> Would be a pita if I forgot a power cable
<davmor2> bigcalm: too right :D
<davmor2> czajkowski: prod
<GirlyGirl> Hi
 * jacobw is unimpressed with young voter's question time
<jacobw> 'we are totally live from salford'
<jacobw> 'send questions in and i'll read out absolutely as many as i can'
<jacobw> also, the banner is similar to nevermind the buzzcocks
<Azelphur> I've never bothered to vote because none of them actually talk about anything that ever interested me
<Azelphur> The only politician I've ever seen that'd get my vote if I could actually vote for him would probably be Obama xD
<MartijnVdS> \o/ ##politics-uk
<DJones> ok, so this is the 12.04 animal :) http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/42/Pangolin_borneo.jpg/413px-Pangolin_borneo.jpg
<MartijnVdS> has it been announced?
<DJones> http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/784
<MartijnVdS> and, as I said
<MartijnVdS> every time someone suggests a name, it's struck from the list of potential names, not added to it :)
<shauno> that doesn't look much like a penguin to me :/
<xr1> anyone know where firefox 7 stores temp files.. youtube videos
<Guest31818> Hello all - quick question, is there any way of telling how fast my usb wi-fi dongle is connecting to my wireless router?
<Guest31818> hi anyone?  is there a quick command to test your wifi adapter's connection speed?
<Azelphur> !patience | Guest31818
<lubotu3> Guest31818: Don't feel ignored and repeat your question quickly; if nobody knows your answer, nobody will answer you. While you wait, try searching https://help.ubuntu.com or http://ubuntuforums.org or http://askubuntu.com/
<Guest31818> sorry - was only asking :)  im on the ubuntu pages as we speak
<MartijnVdS> Guest31818: you can check with the "iw" command, I think
<MartijnVdS> you'll have to look up which option yourself :)
<shauno> xr1: youtube videos are really awkward.  flash creates a file in /tmp, opens it, and then deletes it immediately.  so you end up chasing dangling filehandles, rather than copying temp files
<shauno> much easier to just find any of the 7 million tools that have been invented to handle just that
<Azelphur> if GetActionBarPage() == 2 then is valid LUA right? they don't use a strange symbol for comparison? o.O
<ali1234> you can get those dangling file handles from /proc/<pid>/fd
<ali1234> for example
<ali1234> tail -f -c +0 /proc/<pid>/fd/<filedes> > whatever.flv
<ali1234> also helpful if you accidentally delete a file while it is still downloading
<gord> i thought flash stopped making files in /tmp?
<Azelphur> what else besides cheese can I use to record webcam?
<Azelphur> cheese is bugging out for me :(
<MattJ> Azelphur, let me know if you find something that works well
<MattJ> I had similar issues with Cheese for long videos
<MattJ> I Googled and found other solutions like VLC, but none of them worked well enough
<Azelphur> I found guvcview but it just segfaults when I hit record
<Azelphur> \o/
<popey> Azelphur: guvcview
<popey> oh, heh
<Azelphur> lol
<popey> you want stills or video?
<Azelphur> video
<popey> ffmpeg
<popey> :D
<Azelphur> I can't see what I'm doing if I use ffmpeg
<popey> sure you can, mplayer it too
<popey> heh, that works too
<popey> I'm playing a video with a delay
<Azelphur> I'll just cheat and use my phone \o/
<popey> ffmpeg -an -f video4linux2 -s 1280x720  -r 15 -i /dev/video0 -vcodec mpeg4 -vtag DIVX /tmp/out.avi
<popey> that worked for me
<popey> change resolution accordingly
<popey> then mplayer /tmp/out.avi
<Azelphur> popey: worked sort of but no sound and mplayer exited because it got to the end of the file
<Azelphur> so yea, phone job at least until cheese or uvcview is fixed :P
<popey> heh
<popey> you filed bugs in both?
<Azelphur> I should do :)
<AlanBell> evening all
<daveycakes> just installed ubuntu on my HP laptop. even when i disable the track pad the mouse jumps around, cant seem to fix it. any ideas?
<szymon_g> hi
<szymon_g> could anyone tell me how can i change the fr*cking font in ubuntu11.10? "appearance" doesn't adjust fonts
<dogmatic69_> szymon_g: http://tinyurl.com/3rv23sp
<szymon_g> thanx dogmatic69, really helpfull. now explain me, please, why the duck i'm supposed to install gnome-shell (it's one of gnome-tweak-tool), ok?
<szymon_g> oh, 39 packages to install- just to change a font. yeah, great
<dogmatic69_> ...
<shauno> I didn't think gnome-shell was in the repo.  have you added a third-party repo that it's trying to pull tweak-tool from instead?
<szymon_g> nope
<dogmatic69_> if you spent 15 seconds looking at the system menu you would have seen "appearance"
<dogmatic69_> since you are trying to change the appearance that would be a good start
<szymon_g> yeah. and can you see a font settings there?
<dogmatic69_> yes
<dogmatic69_> the first link in google also has a step by step (about 2 steps in total) guide
<szymon_g> where http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/692/screenshotat20111005231.png/ ?
<szymon_g> the first link tells me to install gnome-tweak-tool, which pools as dep gnome-shell
<szymon_g> the almighty appearance program do not mention any fonts at all, i'm afraid. its ubuntu 11.10 if that matters
<popey> dogmatic69_: i see no option to change the font in the appearance dialog
<dogmatic69_> its called advanced now http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-v9PXJAtN2d0/TnkI4aqJaAI/AAAAAAAAAhU/EjiuP5FKBjI/s400/Screenshot%2Bat%2B2011-09-21%2B04%253A41%253A13.png
<popey> i see nothing when searching for advanced
<popey> and if you look at the package name...
<popey> gnome-tweak-tool
<popey> and there's no way I'm installing that, it pulls in gnome shell
<szymon_g> dogmatic69, the link you provided, is a screenshot of gnome-tweak-tool
<shauno> why does this sidebar jazz scroll past it's extents :/  that seems a bit â¦ off
<shauno> I forgot how bad this had actually gotten on the desktop
<shauno> it's using my " key for the Â¨diacritic, so I can't quote things in a terminal?
<dogmatic69_> ctrl + c -> ctrl + v :D
<shauno> heh.  I haven't found those yet.  if I right-click a terminal window, it doesn't show me the accelerators for copy/paste.  Which usually means there aren't any
<shauno> (I'm apparently not allowed to resize the terminal window either?  other than maximize)
<shauno> hah, it's using tilde for the Ã± diacritic too, so to type ~ I have to hit the key twice
<dogmatic69_> :/
<popey> shauno: is this ubuntu on a mac?
<shauno> yeah
<popey> i had this too
<shauno> apparently UK-mac-international is the wrong keymap to pick if you have a UK-International layout on a mac
<popey> yeah
<popey> I have English (UK, Macintosh)
<popey> and it works
<popey> although still wrong
<shauno> I'm used to wrong.  I just really need my quote key  lol
<popey> ` that one? or " that one?
<shauno> ideally, both.  " was the one I couldn't figure out how to type
<popey> with mine the squiggle in the top left is ` and ~
<shauno> hitting " twice gave me a standalone umlaut, which looked almost convincing (to me, but not to bash)
<popey> and the ' and ~ key gives me < and >
<shauno> looking thru my trashpile trying to see if I can find anything from the last 20 years that uses that as a UK keymap
<shauno> oh, it is a regular PC keyboard.  forgot the spare I have is USian  (it doesn't have \/ positioned correctly for pinball games)
<popey> if i file a bug will you confim it shauno ?
<shauno> would I get my wrist slapped for doing so via a VM?
<popey> no
<popey> the behaviour is the same AIUI
<popey> i just tried mac internatinoal
<popey> I have to press " twice and I get special quotes
<popey> if I press " then space I get normal ones
<shauno> still waiting on #782389 before I can install 'for real'
<shauno> oh, quote-space does give me the right character
<popey> bug 782389
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 782389 in linux (Ubuntu) "DVD drive doesn't work on MacBookPro8,2" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/782389
<popey> nice
<shauno> hm, shift-6 does it too  (defaults to a diacritic, have to use it twice to get the marked glyph out of it)
<Monsterwizard> So Linux is based on Unix?
<Monsterwizard> The linux kernal is based on the unix kernal? :S
<directhex> Monsterwizard: no
<Monsterwizard> hm
<Azelphur> Monsterwizard: it's a "unix-like" OS, meaning that it took some of the concepts of Unix and made them into an entirely new OS
<directhex> Monsterwizard: conceptually, linux is a UNIX-like kernel (and there are many unixes)
<Monsterwizard> Well I need to learn UNIX
<directhex> Monsterwizard: it's a kernel for the GNU operating system, which stands for GNU's Not UNIX
<Azelphur> Monsterwizard: ...why?
<Monsterwizard> so using ubuntu for bash scroting and command line would be a bad idea?
<Azelphur> this isn't 1996
<directhex> Monsterwizard: which unix? Solaris isn't AIX isn't IRIX isn't HP-UX isn't Mac OS X
<directhex> but all of those are unix
<Monsterwizard> Well my teacher hasn't said linux
<Azelphur> the term "Unix" is too vague for you to actually learn
<Monsterwizard> I should ask him
<Azelphur> yes, you should :)
<Azelphur> it also sounds like your teacher doesn't know very much, Unix isn't really used much now days
<shauno> I was just typing that.  asking would be spot on there.  since there is no one 'unix' for a *long* time
<directhex> "unix" on its own could refer to several dozen completely different operating systems
<Pernig> Monsterwizard: at the time there were issues with the various unix flavours legally etc
<Monsterwizard> We connect to a server running linux while logged into windows
<Monsterwizard> unix*
<Monsterwizard> he has never said linux
<Monsterwizard> just unix
<Azelphur> Monsterwizard: but yea, "Linux" and "Unix" are incredibly vague terms
<Azelphur> both of them are just kernels
<Monsterwizard> We've been learning the command line and bash scripting
<Azelphur> A Linux kernel can power anything from a nokia brick phone, to a fully fledged PC like Ubuntu
<Monsterwizard> is it generally universal
<Monsterwizard> Not sure what we use in school
<Azelphur> it's somewhat universal, not all commands exist in all distros
<Monsterwizard> but at home I use ubuntu 10:04
<directhex> AIX, HP-UX, Solaris (SunOS), UNICOS, Mac OS X, OpenBSD, FreeBSD, NetBSD, DragonflyBSD, Tru64, UNIXware
<directhex> more entries, guys
<Pernig> most command line tools that you will be learning will work on most distros
<directhex> that's all i have right now
<Azelphur> if you tried to use your bash knowledge on my Linux powered router for example, you'd get nowhere
<Monsterwizard> in fact, there was a gnome terminal
<Azelphur> because there is no bash on there :D
<Azelphur> but you can probably share your knowledge between most Linux based pc-style distributions easily
<shauno> unix is more of a 'grand design' than a kernel these days.  some things conform closer to that design, some things less.  and some have paid to be allowed to say they conform to it.  and others haven't.
<Monsterwizard> I have a terminal on my andorid
<Monsterwizard> I can't seem to do things like pwd
<Monsterwizard> cd
<Monsterwizard> or sudo apt-get install
<Azelphur> Monsterwizard: yea that's pretty much what I was saying, just because it's linux powered, doesn't mean it's gonna be like anything else at all
<directhex> Monsterwizard: what ties different UNIXes together is a standard called POSIX. any POSIX-compliant features can be assumed to be present on any POSIX-compliant system. for example, you can't assume that a given UNIX has bash installed, but you can assume that it has a POSIX-compliant shell (bash is a POSIX-compliant shell).
<shauno> I don't believe android uses a posix userland
<Azelphur> Monsterwizard: apt is installed on very few systems
<directhex> Monsterwizard: android has a linux kernel, but no POSIX at all
<Azelphur> apt isn't at all universal :)
<shauno> curious, does apt-get work at school ?
<Monsterwizard> yes!
<Monsterwizard> but I wasn't allowed to go
<Monsterwizard> I got a message saying
<Pernig> Monsterwizard: i am surprised you can't use cd, but apt-get won't be there, although funnily enough you can get apt onto an iphone!
<Monsterwizard> this is for sys admins only
<Monsterwizard> I wanted Irssi
<directhex> Pernig: the android security model is highly segmented. android is a crap choice if you want mobile linux
<Monsterwizard> for android :P
<Monsterwizard> :O
<shauno> then unless he hates himself enough to use debian's kfreebsd or hurd variants, you're probably using linux at school.  try 'uname -a' at school (requires no rights) for some juicy specifics
<Monsterwizard> I choose it for that reason directhex
<directhex> oh, Minix, that's another one
<directhex> Minix is UNIX isn't it?
<directhex> or just UNIX-like...
<shauno> it is & isn't as much as linux is & isn't
<Monsterwizard> It's called Ming?
<Monsterwizard> Xming?
<Monsterwizard> they call the server milly
<directhex> Monsterwizard: Linux isn't UNIX. but it's as close to UNIX as anyone in 2011 needs to care about.
<Monsterwizard> I'll see if I can connect from here
<shauno> xming is an X server for windows; usually used as a local terminal to something better running elsewhere
<Monsterwizard> I see
<shauno> that's just going to confuse things even more  lol
<Monsterwizard> how come?
<Monsterwizard> Got to tell you, it's terrible
<Monsterwizard> it's putting people new to linux off
<shauno> I would honestly just ask your teacher if ubuntu, or linux in general, would make for a suitable environment to follow along in
<Monsterwizard> I'm like "Oh no honestly it is good
<Monsterwizard> There's rooms with fedora
<directhex> XMing is an Xorg for Windows isn't it?
<shauno> pretty much
<shauno> it's not what most people new to linux would see.  It's most likely a choice your teacher has had to make, rather than install linux on all the classroom terminals (which are probably used for plenty other than just linux/unix tutorials)
<Monsterwizard> I' going to remote connect to a PC in the comp lab
<Monsterwizard> only to connect to that linux server :P
<shauno> (these days I'd be a lot more tempted to just burn a stack of livecds myself)
<Monsterwizard> I've got bored of that
<directhex> assuming the livecds are correct out-of-the-box e.g. UK keyboard by default
<Monsterwizard> I always always carry around a flash drive with ubuntu.10.04 :P
<shauno> I know this is wildly off-topic here, but appears Mr Jobs is finally out of your way - http://www.apple.com/stevejobs/
<Monsterwizard> oh no
<directhex> Associated Press reports the end of steve jobs
<Monsterwizard> i feel terrible for his family
<ali1234> unix is posix
<ali1234> unix is C stdlib
<ali1234> unix is shells and pipes
#ubuntu-uk 2011-10-06
<Monsterwizard> oh, I need to learn those
<Monsterwizard> linux pipes
<ali1234> also, sad but not particularly unexpected news about steve jobs
<ali1234> it was pretty obvious he didn't have long left when he stepped down a few weeks back
<directhex> ali1234: UNIX is ISO/IEC 9945-2009 ;)
<Monsterwizard> Can someone recommend me a unix/linux book
<Monsterwizard> on general sys admin stuff
<directhex> you won't get a book on unix/linux sysadminnery
<directhex> as sysadminnery is OS-specific
<directhex> and the unix spec is pretty clear in that anything goes as long as the common interfaces are available
<directhex> i.e. a solaris admin can't admin aix
<shauno> so that's why knowing my mac inside out isn't getting me any DBA posts.  damnit!
<Monsterwizard> ahhh ok
<Monsterwizard> there's unix books in the library
<Monsterwizard> unix/library
<Monsterwizard> Linux in a nutshell
<ali1234> could someone go and thump pad.ubuntu-uk.org please?
<nigelb> ali1234: poke Daviey.
<nigelb> gord: Was it you that told me "A Time Traveller's Wife" is an excellent movie?
<nigelb> gord: I just watched it. Lovely! Thanks :-)
<MartijnVdS> tonytiger: Congratifulations!
<tonytiger> MartijnVdS: Thanks!
<DJones> Morning all
<DJones> I guess a big thought for today is RIP Steve Jobs, thoughts will be with his family and colleagues
<AlanBell> morning all
<AlanBell> yes, RIP Steve Jobs, made the industry interesting and raised the bar for everyone
<TheOpenSourcerer> Morning all. Did you see this AlanBell https://twitter.com/#!/opensourcerer/status/121845700291084288
<AlanBell> interesting!
<bigcalm_lappy486> Morning peeps
<MartijnVdS> \o bigcalm
<selinuxium> Morning all   o/
<Hippychick> morning
<oimon> feels a bit more like october today
<dwatkins> we had dark skies and heavy rain an hour ago here in Edinburgh, now it's brightened-up
<oimon> it's dropped over 10 degrees since tuesday
<oimon> more like 15
<gordonjcp> we had heavy hailstones
<JamesTait> Brrrrr! Good moaning!
<danfish> "Precise Pangolin"
<gord> are you guys crazy? its sunny! its nice!
<gord> come talk to me when its snowing :P
<bigcalm[wolvs]> davmor2 is creating some new space aged ambient music with mumble
<gord> ahh mumble is fun, the game where everyone sits around for two hours, trying to hear each other, then gives up
<AlanBell> if you want spacey music, you can download http://worldspaceagency.org/bg.gif, rename it to .mp3 and play it
<AlanBell> some kind of hidden message in there, relating to http://thisisthecountdown.com
<bigcalm[wolvs]> Why isn't skype audio working in this place?
<gord> skype never works on ubuntu for me...
<gord> try google hangouts, that seems to work fine
<diplo> We use skype all the time from our ubuntu boxes, Mav/Natty
<diplo> Google hangouts works well as well, only downside is the bandwith our end sucks
<bigcalm[wolvs]> Skype works just fine at home
<bigcalm[wolvs]> I blame Wolverhampton
<diplo> Wolverhampton is an issue in itse;f
<diplo> itself*
<diplo> :P
<davmor2> czajkowski:  prod
<popey> bigcalm[wolvs]: more importantly, does minecraft work there!?
<bigcalm[wolvs]> Ooo
<bigcalm[wolvs]> Yep :D
<popey> hah
<tim_> hello fellow interwebs
<popey> Greetings.
<tim_> anyone know if this week in linux channel is dead?
<popey> well jordan hasn't made many videos recently
<popey> so it wouldn't surprise me if people aren't hanging out there
<tim_> i think he should kill it off completley
<popey> it's a shame really
<popey> i think it all tailed off after he stopped getting revenue
<popey> so it was clearly a money maker for him
<tim_> yeah but goes to show he loves his money more
<oimon> why did the revenue stop?
<popey> google cancelled his partner account
<popey> for no reason
<tim_> couldnt he get it back if he made more videos
<popey> tim_: it's hard to motivate yourself to spend hours on something for nothing
<popey> possibly tim_
<oimon> everybody needs to eat
<popey> indeed
<tim_> oimon: agreed im hungry
<popey> some people have making youtube videos as a full time job
<popey> like the yogscast guys
 * oimon has a knack of making people go to their cupboards
<tim_> college makes me hungry
<Seeker`> popey: I wonder how well off they are as a result of it
 * czajkowski hugs davmor2 hello my dear
<popey> Seeker`: they seem to be doing alright
<oimon> the LAS guys produce a huge amount of stuff, only income is received by sponsorship by a single company. but it seems to have taken its toll on bryan
<popey> although i dunno where the revenue comes from, I almost never see adverts
<davmor2> czajkowski: hello sweetie how's life
<popey> yeah, boggles me how the LAS guys have time for it
<oimon> they even have small children
<Seeker`> popey: not seen that many yogscast videos, don't know how bad they are for product placement
<Seeker`> popey: I know there are people employed by computer hardware companies to pay WoW and make youtube videos about it
<tim_> are all you guys at work?
<popey> Seeker`: they dont do product placement, but full product play throughs
<popey> they sit for like 4 hours and record 20 videos
<oimon> tim_: i am.
<popey> basically one video and cut it up
<czajkowski> davmor2: it's all good my dear how is life with you
<popey> they get hundreds of thousands of views
<czajkowski> Daviey: oi oi!!!
<diplo> tim_, I am
<tim_> oimon:  dont get caught by the admins now ;)
<oimon> tim_: i AM the admin
<diplo> Same here :)
<tim_> oimon:  awesome!
<tim_> paided to chat XD
<diplo> Seperate screen to work machine, just look over occasionally
<oimon> it doesn't have my full attention :P
<oimon> except for the last 5 minutes
<oimon> just finished my email run and fixing issues overnight, emailing people back. some people go for fag or coffee, i go for irc break
<tim_> well theres really no one above you to check unless your manager comes up behind
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<tim_> morning
<brobostigon> morning tim_
<oimon> about to look into veeam fastscp for backing up vmware images. anyone used it?
<oimon> currently am backing up via the OS rather than backing up the vm images. :-\
<diplo> No but interested how you get oimon :) Something I keep meaning to look at
<oimon> tim_: if my manager comes up behind, then he's george formby or spiderman since i have a corner office
<oimon> diplo: the paid vrsion is quite cheap too for .ac.uk users
<tim_> my college users .ac.uk
<davmor2> czajkowski: great sat next to bigcalm[wolvs] so I'll be teaching him the best ways to wind you up ;)
<bigcalm[wolvs]> :D
 * Laney snuggles popey
<Laney> i approve of the cc meeting log
<czajkowski> davmor2: he won't learn all the years of torture in one day
<davmor2> czajkowski: we can but try :D
 * bigcalm[wolvs] hugs czajkowski
<bigcalm[wolvs]> I'm too sweet and innocent to be corrupted by davmor2
<czajkowski> bigcalm[wolvs]: eh no
<czajkowski> davmor2: behave
<bigcalm[wolvs]> Damn it, skype works and I can take calls now
<czajkowski> and this is bad because
<davmor2> czajkowski: work can annoy him
<bigcalm[wolvs]> Spent the morning chatting with davmor2 and getting my system to work
<bigcalm[wolvs]> We're doing this work place day because?
<czajkowski> you get to meet davmor2
<czajkowski> which not sure how wise that was
<bigcalm[wolvs]> Well, it's certainly a cheerful experience
<popey> Laney: thanks!
 * popey notches another person up on the "people who have told him that the cc meeting log reflects more than just popey's opinion"
<Laney> My name's Iain Lane and I endorse this message
<popey> :D
<bigcalm[wolvs]> My name is also Iain and have seen Lane on occasion
<Laney> it's pretty clear why I got demotivated though; our decisions were repeatedly questioned and challenged in public
<popey> that too
<ali1234> same old story
<ali1234> http://blog.jospoortvliet.com/2011/09/meego-and-opensuse-invitation.html
<czajkowski> I think popey raised really good points, I just wish there was more of the CC there to deal with it,  my issue with the CC is somethimes they're not at their own meeting
<czajkowski> we complain about other boards not turning up, but the CC doesn't have a great track record either unless it's the morning one and even then... so it's hard to raise issues but I think popey kicked the ball off
<ali1234> at the end of the day, if you *really* want to influence things, your number 1 way of doing that is to take the source and make it do what *you* want
<MartijnVdS> exactly
<ali1234> communities built around commercial open source offerings tend to be sand boxes
<ali1234> perhaps i should say "communities"
<ali1234> and by sand boxes, what i mean is, the commercial entity gives the "community" lots of tools like mailing lists and wiki pages where they can feel really important
<ali1234> but in the end, it's just a giant sandbox that can be easily ignored
<danfish> \o/ our clinical software supplier are moving from foxpro to postgreSQL
<danfish> magci
<MartijnVdS> *\o/*
<danfish> magic rather :D
<popey> czajkowski: people do turn up when there's stuff on the agenda
<popey> czajkowski: they often don't when there isnt
<czajkowski> popey: aye but the LC turns up even when we don't have stuff on the agenda, but yes I can see also the point of no agenda no turning up
<czajkowski> but we used that to good use the last day
<KrisDouglas> Hello guys
<popey> lo
<KrisDouglas> I have a dell 1850 in a datacentre at the moment, the system keeps going down. When one of the engi's over there plug a keyboard/disp in to the system it's in a frozen state, almost like a kernel panic. Are there any logs I can read to try and determine the cause of this?
<bigcalm[wolvs]> I really shouldn't be thinking about lunch already
<popey> KrisDouglas: do a memtest
<KrisDouglas> bigcalm[wolvs], I'm thinking about lunch at 8am :)
<oimon> KrisDouglas: and dell diagnostics
<KrisDouglas> popey, passes, no errors.
<popey> KrisDouglas: how long for?
<KrisDouglas> 48 hours the weekend before I fitted it into the DC
<popey> blimey
<KrisDouglas> test finished on sunday, server went in on monday
<KrisDouglas> it's a database server, i'm pedantic like that :)
<diplo> First place I'd check is kern.log / messages
<KrisDouglas> ok, so I will check Dell diag, and kern.log
<KrisDouglas> the reason I think it's software is because it had fedora on it before hand and it ran smoothly.
<oimon> hard freezes are often hardware related IMO
<oimon> KrisDouglas: what's on it now?
<KrisDouglas> oimon, which is my possible concern
<KrisDouglas> ubuntu server LTS
<KrisDouglas> 10.04.2?
<bigcalm[wolvs]> I think it's on .3 now
<KrisDouglas> probably is
<KrisDouglas> It was fully updated when it went in
<KrisDouglas> this is curious
<KrisDouglas> "Oct  6 11:13:35 server2 kernel: [   74.590292] radeon 0000:09:0d.0: failled initializing CP (-2).
<KrisDouglas> "
<KrisDouglas> "Oct  6 11:13:35 server2 kernel: [   74.590292] radeon 0000:09:0d.0: failled initializing CP (-2)."
<bigcalm[wolvs]> davmor2 has nipped to the loo but has left his laptop unlocked. What sneakyness can I get up to?
<popey> alias ls=logout
<bigcalm[wolvs]> Haha
<KrisDouglas> hur
<oimon> run 5 million copies of xeyes
<popey> haha
<popey> do what i did to daviey, run a forkbomb
<oimon> thats mean
<popey> (when actually what I meant to do was just paste a forkbomb into his terminal)
<popey> (but copy/pasted from wikipedia and copied the carriage return with it)
<popey> so when I pasted it ran it
<oimon> woops
<popey> and the terminal I did it in was a remote VPS
<popey> oooooops
<KrisDouglas> oh crap
<oimon> deny all knowledge & run awy
<gord> set an xchat autoreplace to replace all typed mentions of czajkowski to MooDoo
<popey> oimon: it was at my house
<oimon> blame the window cleaner :)
<popey> someone here just walked away from his desk
<popey> so i opened messenger window to another co-worker and typed "I love you" in it
<czajkowski> gord: no MooDoo so you're my #2 stand in
<popey> the remote guy replied "hello alan"
<popey> knowing it was a prank
<oimon> sellotape the desk phone "hook" thingy down so that when you pick up the receiver, the phone still rings
<popey> heh
<popey> our phones never ring
<popey> nobody ever uses phones here
<oimon> did that to a drunk office worker once
<oimon> and removed the ball from his mouse
<oimon> then everyone started to ring him
<popey> we sometimes swap over handsets on adjacent phones
<popey> or yank the usb lead from a mouse
<popey> or put paper in the usb port to block the contacts
<bigcalm[wolvs]> Office pranks are something I miss since working from home
<davmor2> czajkowski: what have I told you about picking on gord don't make me come over there and tickle you
<popey> prank hayley?
<bigcalm[wolvs]> That and the USB rocket launcher that was plugged into the office server
<oimon> bigcalm: buy a dog..they do the worst pranks
<gord> i get to play office pranks on my cat
<bigcalm[wolvs]> popey: she doesn't work at home :(
<popey> she comes home though?
<popey> I sometimes jump out on clare when she comes through the door
<bigcalm[wolvs]> Thankfully she does :)
<oimon> my mother-in-law's dog nicked my dogs food bowl and buried it in the garden for a prank
<KrisDouglas> popey, bigcalm[wolvs], oimon, server had panicked, they are plugging an IPKVM in for me so I can run memtest and see if that's what's causing the problem.
<oimon> does the server have drac?
<oimon> just finished installing veeam backup..windows only bah
 * AlanBell smiles as the postman delivers 8GB of ram :)
<AlanBell> and the first shipit envelope to put in the pile waiting for Oneiric CDs
<imexil>  AlanBell, popey: I found a solution to my font-background problem: gnome-tweak-tool :)
<AlanBell> imexil: cool, so that can make bigger fonts?
<imexil> that too
<AlanBell> I will put that in the a11y release notes
<popey> shame it pulls in gnome shell
<imexil> I was wondering about that
<imexil> but well as long as there is no unity-tweak-tool it will do
<gord> i *think* the gnome guys are adding in font settings for the next release. or maybe i dreamt that
<MartijnVdS> They just removed it!
<imexil> Ha I just ran gnome-shell --replace (now that this one is installed anyway) ... quite fancy
<Seeker`> popey: what macs do you have?
<popey> Seeker`: imac and mbp
 * Seeker` is considering a mba or mini
 * Seeker` doesn't have a house to remortgage for the mbp he would want
 * AlanBell has lots of memory :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> AlanBell: So it worked OK then.
<AlanBell> yep :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> great
<AlanBell> firefox and virtualbox are now friends again
<oimon> wow gnome shell is bizarre. how can i show the apps launcher on the screen always?
<brobostigon> how long does it take google analytics to update, after i have added a new website profile.?
<diplo> I thinkit can be 24/48 hours brobostigon
<diplo> 2 secs
<brobostigon> wow, that is quite a while, ok, thank you diplo.
<davmor2> Hmm bigcalm[wolvs] has left his laptop unlocked what mischief can I get up to....... where did I put the super glue.....
<diplo> yeah 24 hours
<diplo> Updates every 24 hours
<brobostigon> thank you, diplo .
<brobostigon> that is along time, to wait, to see if you have made a mistake, setting it up, to correct it, and then wait another 24hrs.
<diplo> Yup, so you know the answer
<diplo> Check, then check twice more to confirm it's correct :P
<czajkowski> TheOpenSourcerer: http://www.metro.co.uk/news/877704-killer-kismot-curry-contest-leaves-two-in-hospital-in-edinburgh
<brobostigon> diplo: i have done.
<Halabund> hello
<oimon> i get that reaction every time i eat any food with chilli :(
<Halabund> does firefox in the "UK" version of ubuntu only come with the ask search engine?
<Halabund> that's all I'm getting
<oimon> Halabund: how did you install it?
<gord> no
<gord> update
<Halabund> oimon, actually, I just upgraded to 11.10, so maybe that's the problem.  But it's not a big deal.
<Halabund> just wondering
<gord> there was a bug in the packaging a week or so ago that removed all the search engines but ask.com
<brobostigon> ask, isnt there, here in ff8.
<brobostigon> weirldy, twitter is a parameter there.
<Halabund> ah, I see, thanks gord
<brobostigon> interesting.
<Halabund> is there a way to use custom regional settings?  I want neither dollar or pound, but euro, while keeping everything in English
<MartijnVdS> select Irish ;)
<MartijnVdS> but that's not a solution
<gord> i think the regional setting is auto-detected by google depending on what site you are on
<gord> and your ip
<Halabund> I mean the OS's regional settings, not the browser's
<Halabund> things like currency and date format
<gord> oh well then just press super and type language
<gord> open the language support tool
<gord> changing the regional settings should do the trick
 * popey presses super
<popey> â¥
<Myrtti> third day of headache... boo
<gord> i don't really know what to call that key for doing support..
<gord> if you say windows key, then you screw up googling for more support a little
<brobostigon> super key, is what i call it, and have seen it mostly refferred to as.
<Halabund> gord, I was just trying to find out if I can change different values such as language/currency/date separately rather than using a pre-defined thing, like "English (United Kingdom)" which forces on me the pound, which I don't want.
<gord> Halabund, thats what i'm saying, there are two tabs in that tool, the first sets your language, the second your currency/date
<Halabund> gord, but on the second one I can't actually choose currency/date.  I can only choose a pre-defined language/country combination which includes everything.  In WIndows XP I can set a custom currency and custom date format independently of each other
<gord> no no
<gord> it sets the currency and date format, but leaves the language alone
<oimon> argh just got bitten by SELinux when trying to quickly set up samba on a server....grrr!
<MartijnVdS> \o/ red hat
<oimon> if RHCE taught me anything, it was to check selinux
<Myrtti> blah
<Seeker`> hmm?
<oimon> copying 330GB across the network...hope no-one notices.
<bigcalm[wolvs]> davmor2 is going to town on his laptop's arse
<oimon> he has a laser cutter?
<oimon> saw this on reddit http://i.imgur.com/XiQJA.jpg
<popey> thats pretty
<bigcalm[wolvs]> Very nice
<AlanBell> wrong font :)
<oimon> that was mentioned
<oimon> http://www.reddit.com/r/Ubuntu/comments/kzcgz/so_one_of_my_colleagues_has_a_laser_cutter/
<oimon> i found i can only really read reddit on my tablet cos of the cool app
<oimon> the website sucks to navigate
 * bigcalm[wolvs] wants to see the impossible
<bigcalm[wolvs]> davmor2 seems to be frothing at the mouth again
<davmor2> Muhahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
<bigcalm[wolvs]> Lunch!
<TheOpenSourcerer> czajkowski: You are rather "behind-the-curve" https://twitter.com/#!/opensourcerer/status/121700741994913794
<czajkowski> TheOpenSourcerer: I've been busy!
<Daviey> hola
<DJones> czajkowski: Don't know if this is of any interst http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-15199627?
<czajkowski> Daviey: you in london
<czajkowski> Daviey: nice, I'll still never move to NI though :)
<jpds> czajkowski: Clearly Spain at the moment.
 * czajkowski peers at jpds be nice, I found you a place to lay your head! 
<Daviey> czajkowski: i was... :)
<czajkowski> Daviey: I saw you at paddington
<czajkowski> now where are you
<Daviey> czajkowski: behind you
<selinuxium> Conversation has gone a little creepy... :)
<czajkowski> selinuxium: all I need now is davmor2 in the mix and I'd agree
<mrevell> Hey, who wants to spend an exciting few minutes on the phone with me? As a bonus, you also get to tell me what you think of some proposed new designs for Launchpad :)
<czajkowski> ohhh
<czajkowski> tempting
<czajkowski> mrevell: are you gonna make things I like or am I gonna come after you and kill you with these changes
<mrevell> czajkowski, That's for you to tell me :)
<czajkowski> hmm
<oimon> just seen a picture of wayne rooney's dad
<oimon> looks identical except about 5yrs age gap
<Monsterwizard> how do I uninstall Ubuntu
<MartijnVdS> oimon: he's older than his dad?!
<Monsterwizard> from this blooyd virtual machone
<Azelphur> Monster same way you remove any OS from a VM, you delete the VM
<oimon> installed gun bros on my touchpad , thought it might be fun..uninstalled 10 mins later...massive lag :(
<Monsterwizard> the program crashes each time I open it
<Monsterwizard> and when I go to delete it from the file manager
<Monsterwizard> I can't!
<Monsterwizard> it's read only
<Azelphur> which program
<GirlyGirl> oimon: on your touchpad??
<davmor2> czajkowski: boo!
<oimon> GirlyGirl: yeah
<Monsterwizard> Orcale's
 * czajkowski pours a bucket of water over davmor2 behave 
<Azelphur> Monsterwizard: have you tried running it from a terminal to see why it crashes?
<GirlyGirl> oimon: Like the pointing device of a laptop??  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Touchpad
<Monsterwizard> Just about too
<oimon> GirlyGirl: like the hp tablet :P
<davmor2> czajkowski: :P
<Monsterwizard> yep
<Monsterwizard> not running
<Monsterwizard> :/
<Monsterwizard> I'm going to uninstall the WHOLE program
<DJones> oimon: I thought Rooney's dad looked like Phil Mitchell from Eastenders
<Azelphur> Monsterwizard: if your not going to listen to what people have to say in here, then there's not a lot of point in asking
<oimon> DJones: he is also an alleged crook it seems
<DJones> I saw that
<Monsterwizard> Azelphur :/ I tried from the termina
<Monsterwizard> terminal*
<Azelphur> Monsterwizard: so where's the output?
<oimon> also looks a bit like phil coolins if phil collins ate all the pies
<DJones> Heh, speaking of touchpads, http://www.techworld.com.au/article/403159/hp_investigates_android_touchpads/?fp=16&fpid=1#closeme
<Azelphur> !pastebin | Monsterwizard
<lubotu3> Monsterwizard: For posting multi-line texts into the channel, please use http://paste.ubuntu.com | To post !screenshots use http://imagebin.org/?page=add | !pastebinit to paste directly from command line | Make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the channel topic.
<Monsterwizard> I don#t know what you are refering too (noob)
<diplo> Monsterwizard, You post the errors from using terminal to pastebin so Azelphur can see output
<diplo> or anyone for that matter
<Azelphur> ^
<oimon> DJones: the simples meerkat is working on the android touchpad port
<Monsterwizard> ok so I type the program name in the temrinal without the &
<Monsterwizard> ?
<diplo> Can also use pastebininit
<Azelphur> Monsterwizard: yep
<oimon> check out http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8IVkj_vdY6s voiced by simples
<bigcalm[wolvs]> That was a decent lunch
<AlanBell> mrevell: did you get someone to talk to?
<AlanBell> http://worldspaceagency.org/
<AlanBell> oooh
<diplo> Wat an awful site AlanBell :)
<AlanBell> diplo: yeah, but that is part of the game
<AlanBell> http://askubuntu.com/questions/64284/what-does-thisisthecountdown-com-count-down-to
<diplo> :)
<AlanBell> http://www.thisisthecountdown.com/ the apparent corruption on the background image is part of it too
<diplo> heh, someone having fun then
<AlanBell> it is being discussed in #awholenewworld
<drussell> heh looks like the logo for "falling skies" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falling_Skies
<bigcalm[wolvs]> What does?
<AlanBell> the background on thisisthecountdown.com
<bigcalm[wolvs]> Oh
<bigcalm[wolvs]> This not working from home has really shut me up today
<popey> :D good
<popey> (in a nice way)
<kvarley> I've downloaded a tar archive which contains multiple deb packages to install Lazurus, is there a way to install them all at once?
<popey> dpkg -i *.deb
<kvarley> popey: Thank you once again =)
<popey> np
 * popey has no idea what lazarus is
<popey> !lazarus
<popey> bah
<popey> http://wiki.lazarus.freepascal.org/Lazarus_release_version_for_Ubuntu
<popey> you doing that?
<oimon> was it dead for a while?
 * oimon has been in the productivity zone today. don't want to go home, but has to :(
 * bigcalm[wolvs] tickles popey
<bigcalm[wolvs]> Bit early to be going home
<kvarley> popey: Yes
<oimon> goign home in 1/2 hr but thinking about how much i can get done
<oimon> have tomorrow off
<czajkowski> 1 hr 15 mins left
<czajkowski> wonder would anyone notice if I crawled under the desk and slept
<oimon> might get noted on your next probation meeting
<bigcalm[wolvs]> Attempting some Unity love. I will blame davmor2 for any out-bursts
<davmor2> hahahahahahahahaha
<oimon> also i dislike gnome shell, seems a lot faster than unity
<Monsterwizard> I miss os/2
<Monsterwizard> and I was born in the early 90s :/
<davmor2> bring back basic 10 print "you suck"; 20 goto 10
 * gord should add that to unity
<gord> frankly, if your OS doesn't have a basic interpretor built in, it ain't worth squat!
<oimon> i wrote my computing GCSE project in BBC Basic
<oimon> in 1990
<bigcalm[wolvs]> gord: please be careful. davmor2 will squirt coffee out of his nose due to laughing in a moment
<bigcalm[wolvs]> As did I, in 1995
<davmor2> hahahahahaha,  no I think you're in more danger of that bigcalm
<Monsterwizard> computer 'science' is the most absurd name for that field
<oimon> the syllabus contained discussion of card readers
<oimon> basically it was learning by rote, without any real world application since 1970
<oimon> except we covered generational tape backups
<oimon> it's easier to get an A in computing than textiles or the other lame "tech" subjects back then
<bigcalm[wolvs]> Anybody fancy a game of Tetris?
 * oimon sings the tune
<czajkowski> davmor2: less snorting!
<bigcalm[wolvs]> I feel ill now
<davmor2> hahaha
<JGJones> Dear Ubuntu - damn you for making me feel like an old fart.
<JGJones> Personal info - enter your birthday. In year...I was clicking back each year...ended up holding down to scroll back quickly as I realised I'll have to click over 30 times.
<davmor2> do do do do dodedo do do do dodedo do do do do do do do dodedo do do dodedo do do do do dodedo do do do do
<DJones> davmor2: You need the "Identification Division" first, then you can have the "Display 'You suck'" line
<bigcalm[wolvs]> davmor2 is funny in the head
<davmor2> DJones: no it's basic that fills the screen across and down with you suck!
<davmor2> bigcalm[wolvs]: It took you this long to figure it out
<DJones> You need to rewrite it in cobol though
<davmor2> DJones: I did specifically say basic
<DJones> But thats no fun
<Monsterwizard> C or Java?
<czajkowski> http://gigaom.com/cloud/rackspace-gives-up-the-openstack-reins/
<bigcalm[wolvs]> Iain: Keep your eyes on the monitor
<bigcalm[wolvs]> *sigh*
<davmor2> hahahaha
<JGJones> Forgive my fuzzy memory, but is Thunderbird now the default mail app in 10.10? And thus Evolution no longer needed? Or is it still required for calendaring stuff?
<NathanaelG> Hi folks, nice to meet you
<NathanaelG> I have an off topic problem where I need someone in the uk helping me
<gord> JGJones, thunderbird is the default in 11.10 :)
<gord> JGJones, there might be a small part of evo still installed somewhere, for gnome compatibility
<JGJones> Lovely. What about calendar though? That's still handled by Evolution? Ie I go into Evolution for calendar stuff and Thunderbird for emails?
<gord> evo the application isn't installed, so i doubt it
<gord> NathanaelG, if you actually ask your question, someone might be able to help you :) no point in asking to ask
<NathanaelG> ok, OT, though. I am a big fan of dragons and there is a product one can only order in the uk. I would prepay of course, it s about 40 pound
<NathanaelG> And I know noone in the uk :-(
<bigcalm[wolvs]> Screw you guys, I'm going home
<NathanaelG> bigcalm[wolvs]: hope it wasn t me causing it ;-)
<Monsterwizard> in virtual box
<Monsterwizard> I can't make it to go full screen
<Monsterwizard> the full screen view...isn't full screen
<kvarley> Monsterwizard: You need to install guest editions or edit the resolution mode using VboxManage
<NathanaelG> Would someone be so kind as to help me out with this?
<Monsterwizard> Kvarley ahhh I'm on it
<Monsterwizard> kvarley I'm guessing install the guest editions would be easier
<kvarley> Monsterwizard: Yup
<Monsterwizard> ooo got an update for virtual box to install firsr
<Monsterwizard> which is the best virtual disk to use?
<Monsterwizard> Bloody hell D:
<Monsterwizard> There's VDI, VMDK, VHD, HDD
<kirrus> Monsterwizard: virtual disk? You mean, RAM file system?
<Monsterwizard> I choose virtual disk in the ned
<Monsterwizard> I'm not sure
<kirrus> Monsterwizard: not sure what you're after! :)
<Monsterwizard> lol me too :P
<Monsterwizard> Gotta learn about this stuff
<JGJones> hmm...did 10.10 remove the "Leave a message" function from the screensaver lock screen?
<Monsterwizard> JGJones god no
<JGJones> Monsterwizard, look like it's removed...don't see the Leave Message button.
<Monsterwizard> :O
<kirrus> I'm running gnome2 on 10.10, and it's still got it, so probably something to do with unity
<kirrus> (unity decided that swapping around my workspaces randomly every now and then was fun)
<Univoid> hi guys i looking for a good IDE for c++ monodevelop is good but lacks good code completion also it hangs an awful lot
<Monsterwizard> netbeans
<kirrus> Eclipse?
<Monsterwizard> virtual machine scares me
<Monsterwizard> it wont actually touch windows partition will it?
<dwatkins> it can't, Monsterwizard
<dwatkins> (well it can if you configure a shared drive that the guest operating system can write to, but generally the guest can't make changes on the host)
<Univoid> i have tried eclipse from repositories but it does not seem an up to date version
 * bigcalm returns to haunt you all
<mgdm> nooooooooooooooooo
 * gord gets out the ghost-b-gone
<davmor2> bigcalm: Boo!
 * mgdm calls the Ghostbusters
<bigcalm> ARGH
<bigcalm> davmor2: sorry for the quick departure this evening. I had pre-agreed to be home to have dinner with Hayley. If you fancy going to the pub next month to laugh at the sober people, that would be fun
<davmor2> bigcalm: no I wanted to get home for tea anyway.
<bigcalm> Fair enough
<Azelphur> are there any alternatives to conky?
<jacobw> gkrellm?
<jacobw> its quite old school
<Azelphur> yea, I don't really like oldschool :/
<Azelphur> I'm into new and shiny
<Azelphur> that's the problem with conky really, it's rather old and non-modular, doesn't have proper transparency and is kinda buggy
<Azelphur> and the config for it is rather bad too :p
<Monsterwizard> http://news.sky.com/home/business/article/16084156
<Monsterwizard> http://news.sky.com/home/business/article/16084156
<Monsterwizard> Brace yourself for the Â£10 loaf everybody!
<AlanBell> we can always eat cake instead
<popey> or pie
<popey> mmmm pie
<popey> http://drool.popey.com/
<popey> -!- TheOpenSourcerer [~alord@81-178-65-1.dsl.pipex.com] has quit [Quit: Getting Pie.]
 * AlanBell is using putty on windows :(
<Monsterwizard> putty?
<Monsterwizard> I'm stuck
<AlanBell> friend sprung the "can you fix this laptop?" thing on me
<Azelphur> IT'S A TRAP. RUN.
<Monsterwizard> I can't make the virtual box go true full screen
<AlanBell> putty is a windows ssh client
<Monsterwizard> why don't they do this by default?
<Monsterwizard> Virtual PC from MS does :/
<AlanBell> Monsterwizard: right control+f
<Azelphur> why would you want a VM in full screen? :/
<Azelphur> that makes no sense, you might as well run the OS native lol
<AlanBell> (or left control if they wired your keyboard backwards)
<Monsterwizard> Azelphur
<Monsterwizard> :P I know
<Monsterwizard> but something went terribly wrong once
<Monsterwizard> my screen goes dimmer when I use ubuntu in Virtual Box
<gr33npeace> evening everyone... I've updated to the latest version of flash in both firefox 7 and chrome 14 and it's actually locking up the whole OS... can't even drop down to one of the other ttys
<gr33npeace> is anyone else seeing this, or can you help me diagnose?  :)
<Monsterwizard> ubuntu?
<Monsterwizard> I'm updating everything now to see if the problem is universal
<Monsterwizard> have you tried google?
<gr33npeace> yes... only updated this morning though, and couldn't find much online..
<gr33npeace> ubuntu 11.04, running on a Dell m1330 w/ nvidia
<gr33npeace> best way to reproduce it, as far as I can see, is to watch a youtube video or two, and then close the tab
<Monsterwizard> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ppTSCKordZs&feature=fvwrel
<Monsterwizard> yup it works >.<
<gr33npeace> Monsterwizard: it crashed your system as well?
<Monsterwizard> noppe
<Monsterwizard> it's just as terrible as ever D:
<Monsterwizard> try the main ubuntu support channel
<gr33npeace> hahaha, ok thanks mate  :)
<gr33npeace> I suspect it's going to be something nvidia-y
<Monsterwizard> Can someone tell me a story
<Monsterwizard> of themselves doing as really cool electronics project
<Monsterwizard> EEs always have cool stories
<KrimZon_2> for some reason newer ubuntus don't connect to my wireless network
<KrimZon_2> although I'm currently trying xubuntu 11.10 beta
<silner> KrimZon_2, What card?
<KrimZon_2> I can't remember
<KrimZon_2> I copied manual settings off another machine - it might be my network config that I forgot about
<KrimZon_2> bah, the installer crashed
<KrimZon_2> claiming the disc was corrupt or something
<Azelphur> Ok I officially won at breaking things, Nobody can beat me now. http://imgur.com/iHPn6
<mgdm> did you break sudo or the reboot command, though? :)
<Azelphur> I think I broke everything, pretty much anything I ran segfaulted
<Azelphur> hard rebooted, dropped to a tty and did an apt-get upgrade, that seemed to fix whatever it was
<mgdm> I suspect something like a mismatched glibc or some similar exciting thing
<Azelphur> hehe
<Seeker`> Azelphur: wut?! You're like the grim reaper for computers
<Azelphur> indeed
#ubuntu-uk 2011-10-07
<knightwise> morning everyone
<knightwise> msg HazRPG morning !
<shauno> lol .. morning knightwise
<AlanBell> morning all
<GirlyGirl> morning!
<knightwise> mornign AlanBell
<knightwise> happy birthday btw AlanBell :)
<knightwise> wasnt it your bday this week ?
<AlanBell> nope!
<knightwise> darn , my bad
<AlanBell> hehe
<knightwise> i thought i saw somethin on facebook
<AlanBell> mid June
<AlanBell> Pendulum and czajkowski have recently got less young
<GirlyGirl> knightwise: I'm sure you AlanBell would still like a gift though for his immaginary bday
<AlanBell> good thinking GirlyGirl
<knightwise> GirlyGirl: he should be so lucky !
<AlanBell> http://ubuntu-uk.org/free-cds/ now accepting pre-orders for Oneiric CDs
<popey> AlanBell: worth updating the artwork on that page?
<diplo> Morning all
<AlanBell> just about :)
<AlanBell> would be surprised if many people noticed the updated artwork, but I will do it. At the moment it just surfaces images from shop.ubuntu.com
<popey> ahhh
<AlanBell> in fact, I am lazy, I will wait for the store to do the thumbnailing for me
<DJones> Morning all
<j0nr> hello everyone
<j0nr> turning coldafter that little hot spell
<j0nr> it is October after all
<gord> http://insidescoopsf.sfgate.com/blog/2011/10/04/ubuntu-is-closing-for-the-winter-to-take-a-sabbatical/ oh no!
<bigcalm> Morning peeps
 * bigcalm scratches his head
 * DJones offers bigcalm a nit comb
<bigcalm> Ta, but I really just need a wash
<bigcalm> ;)
<DJones> Thats good news, much healthier
<czajkowski> Aloha
<bigcalm> Hi
<DJones> Morning czajkowski
<czajkowski> can I just say time sheets are a pain in the arse
<JamesTait> Happy Friday, everyone!
<DJones> Agreed, thankfully after doing them for 23 years in previous jobs, I don't need to do them in this one :)
<gord> wait, its friday? wooo
 * Laney gets down
<DJones> Doesn't Friday just mean its teh start of the overtime weekend catching up on the things people didn't have time to do in the normal week
<bigcalm> DJones: you've just described my life :(
<DJones> Heh, I was going to say "catching up on the things that people couldn't do because they were too busy playing minecraft on works time"
<DJones> Oh wait, thats me :)
<bigcalm> :D
<DJones> Good job we've got a rubbish computer system that makes me wait for between 30-60 minutes running some reports
<bigcalm> Ug
* AlanBell changed the topic of #ubuntu-uk to: Welcome to #ubuntu-uk! http://ubuntu-uk.org | This channel is publicly archived http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Mailing List http://tinyurl.com/uukml | Support Guidelines http://tinyurl.com/uuksupport | Meeting 20th October 21:00 UK time #ubuntu-uk-meeting | Ada Lovelace Day http://findingada.com/
 * AlanBell waves danfish in the direction of http://www.ehi.co.uk/events/ehi-live/skunkworks/
<kirrus> This is a bit of a silly question.. but does the partition type for swap actually need to be swap (82)? I've always set it so, so never found out!
<gordonjcp> kirrus: not really
<gordonjcp> kirrus: it makes it easier for things to "guess" what the partition type is meant to be
<kirrus> grand, thanks gordonjcp :)
<danfish> thanks AlanBell :)
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<HazRPG> knightwise: morning dude! \o I think you forgot the / in front of that msg :P
<brobostigon> morning HazRPG :)
<HazRPG> AlanBell: Ah, mid june is your birthday... much the same as me then!
<HazRPG> AlanBell: its great having a summer birthday isn't it :)
<HazRPG> brobostigon: morning dude \o
<brobostigon> o/
<Myrtti> august 13th â¥
<Myrtti> although recent events have made a part of my oggcamp birthday raffle prize redundant...
<bigcalm> Not the penguin?!
<Myrtti> no... I just have to give back my laptop
<Myrtti> :-(
<bigcalm> :(
<Myrtti> the axe finally swung for good
<davmor2> morning all
 * czajkowski hugs Myrtti 
<TheOpenSourcerer> Something for the weekend... http://news.techeye.net/mobile/oxford-uni-puts-the-large-hadron-collider-into-android
<jpds> TheOpenSourcerer: Or you could give https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VakjZqso8Ik a try.
<BigRedS> oooh
<czajkowski> popey: nice blog post, clicking from FB open in chrome I get a 404 error as it puts www remove the www and it works. odd
<bigcalm> popey: your mod_rewrite rules need correcting in .htaccess :)
<popey> ugh
<popey> help me fix it :D
<DJones> Myrtti: Just just reading backlog, you share the same birthday as me
<bigcalm> RewriteCond %{HTTP_HOST} ^popey.com$ [NC]
<bigcalm> RewriteRule ^(.*)$ http://www.popey.com/$1 [R,L]
<bigcalm> Try that
<popey> its lighttpd not apache
<bigcalm> No idea then :)
<bigcalm> Actually, it'd want to be the reverse as well I guess
 * bigcalm goes back to giving mobile devices some love
<popey> try now?
<gord> i'v decided i hate gmails priority inbox, it just collects google+ messages and ignores all my important email
<bigcalm> 404
 * popey has deleted the fb post
<popey> stupid facebook
<kirrus> gord: really? Mine ignores all my google+ messages :) Maybe google's algorithm just thinks you put more priority on them
<bigcalm> I have g+ all archived to a folder and bypass inbox
<gord> i have most of my stuff archived well so i don't really even need priority inbox
 * brobostigon doenloads lhsee.
<tonytiger> I already voted \o/
<tonytiger> I wanted to vote for czajkowski. You put the candidate you want at the bottom of the list, right?
<bigcalm> Heh
<popey> :D
<popey> 11 is bigger so that must be better
<popey> I gave everyone 11
<davmor2> bigcalm: so Steph rang me this morning and so you're aware the lighthouse is available 9-5 not 6 it is open to the cinema at 5:30 so it stops being University property at that point
<brobostigon> very nice 3d graphics in lhsee,
<DJones> Probably need to be nice to czajkowski, she's going to getting stressed ahead of her 6am date tomorrow
<bigcalm> Aha
<bigcalm> That's fine. An early bunk off is something I can cope with
<bigcalm> davmor2: cheers
<scoundrel50a> finally got my Oneiric working on my lenovo laptop, in the end, after a week of not getting the gui to load, and updating via Ctrl+Alt+F1 I added a new user and changed to admin in new user and the Unity finally loaded. Cant get Ubuntu one to synch tomboy notes, really annoying
<popey> thats a known bug
<scoundrel50a> ah, that is good to know, thanks popey, will stop trying now
<davmor2> bigcalm: yeah I thought I'd let you know as soon as I did though
<bigcalm> Rally the troops and get more people to come along :D
<scoundrel50a> its very much like Mac os isnt it, but not quite as much functionality as mac
<scoundrel50a> I have a macbook pro, and I was surprised at how much like the os Unity is
<davmor2> bigcalm: Will be
<popey> scoundrel50a: it is similar
<popey> scoundrel50a: in the same way that other releases are similar to windows
<davmor2> bigcalm: we got a month of advertising this time rather that 6 days :)
<bigcalm> Hehe
<bigcalm> Though I think the coffee rounds will get expensive ;)
<scoundrel50a> popey: Having the mac os, does help with getting used to Unity I think
<scoundrel50a> popey: it makes more sense
<bigcalm> I should find out how well Unity copes with 3 screens
<scoundrel50a> popey: I wasnt getting used to it, until I got the macbook
<scoundrel50a> this lenovo laptop is amazing, I recommend getting one to anybody
<popey> which model is it?
<scoundrel50a> G550-6
<scoundrel50a> the cheaper one, but it works well with Unity, and the support is amazing from linux emporium
<tonytiger> It looks like a fairly bog standard laptop to me :)
<scoundrel50a> plus it works with Ubuntu Classic and Gnome, I found out why I lost the window controls with Gnome it was in the settings
<scoundrel50a> but a better graphics card than I have had till now
<scoundrel50a> and this had 11.04 and 11.10 preinstalled without windows
<Joeb454> scoundrel50a: I don't think unity is that much like the OS X dock - the taskbar in Windows 7 groups windows into 1 icon by default too
<scoundrel50a> I didnt think it was like windows 7 at all, must have missed something, but very rarely use windows at all
<MartijnVdS> it's very Windows 7y
<scoundrel50a> just for updating my phone
<MartijnVdS> Some games, TV firmware unpacking, updating my Logitech Harmony
<Joeb454> I think it's the way quite a few UI's seem to be going now
<scoundrel50a> once you use it more, it does make more sense, I do like the Classic version though, that is even better
<Joeb454> I prefer unity, personally. I think that's because one of the features I liked most on OS X is spotlight, but I never really found anything similar for ubuntu...and the windows start menu wasn't the same. Unity manages to do that, and in a nicer way, IMO
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Alan Pope] Voting in a new Ubuntu Community Council Begins - http://popey.com/blog/2011/10/07/voting-in-a-new-ubuntu-community-council-begins/
<scoundrel50a> is there support for installing ubuntu on macs? I was wondering about doing that sometime, is it complicated?
<directhex> depends on the age of the mac
<jpds> scoundrel50a: Well, some stuff might not work; the hardware isn't built to run with Ubuntu.
<scoundrel50a> ah
<jpds> scoundrel50a: I once dealt with one that had no wireless detected by Ubuntu.
<scoundrel50a> oh, that isnt good, I have an ethernet connection, but never use it
<jpds> Buy a Thinkpad or something.
<scoundrel50a> Unity does use the battery up very quickly though
<jpds> scoundrel50a: Actually, that's probably more related to https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/760131
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 760131 in linux (Ubuntu Natty) "Power consumption raised significantly in natty" [High,Fix committed]
<Joeb454> scoundrel50a: I managed to get Natty installed on my Macbook (late 2008), not sure I did it right though, as I screwed the boot on it
<Joeb454> Apple still have it in for repair now :P
<scoundrel50a> oh dear, how long has it been in for repair?
<Joeb454> they said 3-5 days, but they've had it for 10 days now
<scoundrel50a> I notice that I havent had any bugs appear since logging in today, in 11.10, had a huge update this morning, and the compiz bug stopped showing
<scoundrel50a> do they normally take that long?
<Joeb454> no, normally they've been really good. I've had to deal with apple customer relations once before, so I might email them, largely because when I called to ask about it yesterday the guy that answered the phone was quite rude
<scoundrel50a> that is unusual, I have not had problems with them so far, they have really good.....sorry to hear that
<DJones> This might be of interest to anybody who uses their android phone for book reading http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/10/07/google_books_app_launches_uk/
<scoundrel50a> oh, I usually use Kindle, but will have to look out for that
<DJones> I use FBReader, but I'll give it a go, review comments don't sound to brilliant for it
<scoundrel50a> battery running out, have to log off, connector over other siden of room
<scoundrel50a> by for now
<gord> davmor2, remind me about the lighthouse thing again closer to the time, its only half an hour away or so on the train :)
<davmor2> gord: I thought you were further up north than that
<gord> davmor2, crewe, not that far away, but to be honest the rail links here are great, you hop on the fast virgin train and can get anywhere within two hours
<davmor2> gord: oh man I thought you were much further north than that :)
<czajkowski> I have proof davmor2 really wuvs me deep deep down!!!
<davmor2> czajkowski: I haz proof there is alcohol in this dandelion and burdock
<davmor2> bigcalm: see the numbers are increasing for the next one already :)
<bigcalm> \o/
<bigcalm> Announce it to the lists next?
<davmor2> bigcalm: of course I feel sorry for czajkowski if me, you and gord are all in the same room
<bigcalm> Hehe
<bigcalm> We'll be too busy taking the piss out of each other to annoy czajkowski ;)
<davmor2> bigcalm: I know she won't feel the love at all that's what I mean
<bigcalm> Ah
<czajkowski> bigcalm: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/czajkowski#Testimonials_about_my_work_in_the_Ubuntu_Community 1st comment davmor2
<czajkowski> see he wuvs me!
<bigcalm> czajkowski: sounds like a different davmor2 to me ;)
<davmor2> bigcalm: I repeat <davmor2> czajkowski: I haz proof there is alcohol in this dandelion and burdock
<popey> moooooooooooooooooooo
<bigcalm> Haha
<Laney> popey: you didn't say that emmet is standing again
<Laney> ps GREETINGS!
<popey> oops
<popey> yes i did
<jussi> How was the pub lunch?
<popey> 	<li><a href="https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EmmetHikory">Emmet Hikory</a></li>
<jussi> popey: ^^^
<Laney> no like this
<Laney> "Daniel and Lyz are standing again"
<popey> well
<popey> its tricky
<popey> we haven't actually spoken to him
<popey> so thought best to add him anyway
<Laney> hah
<Laney> been there
<popey> jussi: crabbies and a fish finger sandwich
<jussi> popey: nom?
<popey> very
<bigcalm> Hey Hey W Are Not the Monkees
<bigcalm> What a strange 80s rap track
<bigcalm> s/W/We
 * czajkowski hugs davmor2 
<davmor2> bigcalm: strange 80's rap would be morris major and the minors with the stutter rap
<Myrtti> woo, at my apartment â¥
<AlanBell> Myrtti: what country are you calling home right now?
<popey> stupid dput not working behind a stupid proxy
<popey> bah!
<Myrtti> AlanBell: whatever where majority of my socks reside
<czajkowski> popey: thanks for doing the blog post, we're all using it to share and link to
<czajkowski> I've yet to wear socks yet
<czajkowski> only then will I admit it's cold
<popey> hehe
<TheOpenSourcerer> Great PR: http://cloud.ubuntu.com/2011/10/ubuntu-powers-hp-public-cloud/
<czajkowski> hate wearing socs
<czajkowski> oh also turns out I've a sprained ankle but didnt notice as taking enough meds for my back not to notice
<czajkowski> go me
<czajkowski> I am full of fail this week
<czajkowski>  http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-northamptonshire-15213346
<bigcalm> So sad
<popey> i got home from work yesterday to find some chestnuts on my desk :D
<popey> they have huge chestnut trees at the kids school
<popey> hmm, the only mp3 on my laptop is nyancat.mp3
<Joeb454> popey: (and anybody else on G+) have you noticed that you'll get the notification either via the phone app or web about 3 hours before the email? Or is that just me?
<popey> yes
<bigcalm> It appears to be the case, yes
<Joeb454> I don't know why, but that bugs me. You'd think they'd be able to email you sooner than that
<kirrus> are the emails batched, contain multiple notifications for the last 3 hours?
<kirrus> makes sense if so, to not flood you with emails
<davmor2> czajkowski: I've told akgraner you're being nice to me publicly she just laughed
 * czajkowski goes down on one knee to davmor2 I think you're just great 
<davmor2> czajkowski: Get up you creep ;)
<popey> i see the candidates are being especially nice to everyone
<Joeb454> kirrus: now you mention it, I think they might be
<Joeb454> popey: think it'll last long?
<davmor2> popey: I wouldn't mind but I only said she was gobby
<rascal999> anyone on BT?
<Seeker`> for broadband?
<rascal999> yeah
<Seeker`> yup
<rascal999> Seeker`: can you access http://www.newzbin.com ?
<rascal999> BT were ordered to block it, but i've read no further news
<Seeker`> err, not on a BT connection at present
<rascal999> dang
<diplo> rascal999, in news today
<diplo> They are appealing it
<diplo> So doubt it will be banned yet
<czajkowski> popey: I'm alaways nice to popey on the 1st friday of the month
<czajkowski> after that it's game on
<czajkowski> and now I've no Moodoo I've a gord
<czajkowski> but I'm gentle with gorl
<czajkowski> *gord
<gord> gorl for short
<popey> WHAT!?
<popey> there's a _pattern_ to this madness!?
<gord> yeah, but observing it changes it
 * popey blinks
 * popey likes blinking
<bigcalm> Weeping Angels like popey
<czajkowski> it'll be back to normal come tomorrow
<czajkowski> and I shall be back to poking kicking and throttling davmor2
<czajkowski> then teasing gord about nice foods I have till moodoo comes back
<czajkowski> simples
<bigcalm> *squeek*
<czajkowski> stupid meerkat add
<bigcalm> Oh dear. My android tablet is telling a website that it's an iPad
 * bigcalm sighs
<gord> maybe it is an ipad and you are just confused?
<davmor2> czajkowski: in that case, I may just tie your hair to your chair in preparation for your departure :)
<czajkowski> http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-uk/1283/detail/ dont forget to register if you're coming along
<stuphi> Anybody here use a Twinhan USB DVB tuner card with 11.10?
<MartijnVdS> let me check the brand on mine
<stuphi> This happens with mine:- http://paste.ubuntu.com/704076/
<MartijnVdS> [532177.990328] dvb-usb: WideView WT-220U PenType Receiver (Typhoon/Freecom) successfully initialized and connected.
<MartijnVdS> stuphi: Ooh, shiny crash
<MartijnVdS> stuphi: you'll probably want to report a bug for that
<stuphi> MartijnVdS: Any suggestion what package to report against?
<MartijnVdS> stuphi: the kernel, let me find a HOWTO
<MartijnVdS> stuphi: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/KernelTeamBugPolicies
<stuphi> MartijnVdS: Thanks for that.
<davmor2> gord: you going to the release party?
<gord> davmor2, nope, too far for me
<davmor2> I still have a horrible feeling that we'll be working on a release then, but I'm still hoping
<gord> davmor2, work on release *at* the party
<davmor2> gord: it's at the cask wifi never works at the cask
<gord> davmor2, mobile internet?
<davmor2> there ahahahahahahahahahaha
<gord> unless i'm out of the country, i don't even bother using wifi out and about these days
<brobostigon> terry gilliam, on the one show, :)
<AlanBell> waterponies \o/ http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-15215335
<zleap> brobostigon, no idea who he is
<brobostigon> zleap: director, and member and animator for monty python.
<zleap> ah
<popey> Evening all!
<brobostigon> evening popey
<zleap> evening
<zleap> not long to go
<DJones> popey: Are you now a retired council member now?
 * popey puts his feet up
<popey> yeah
<popey> (no)
<popey> staying on till newbs are voted in
<DJones> heh
<DJones> I would have thought the vote would be before your term ended so they'd take over as one term ended
<AlanBell> DJones: this is still the dreamy oneiric cycle, administrative processes will be precise next time
<popey> Impressed that we'll have an installfest three days after release
<popey> thats brilliant work
<zleap> popey, i want to do stuff here in South Devon but no one seems to be ever avialbel to help when i mention it on the list
<zleap> as in dclug list
<davmor2> czajkowski: Boo!!!
<pepito> hello all!  I am having some major issues and could really use some help from people who know what the heck they
<pepito> are doing
<pepito> I bought my laptop from an aquaintance (i wont say friend) who had a friend of hers wipe the hard drive and install his windows vista ultimate on it... problem is I didnt know this and the thirty day registration window ran out
<pepito> and when I tried to get the product key from him and enter it, it says the product key has already been used.... anyway long story short, I have decided to go with Ubuntu and would like to install it on my computer
<pepito> the problem is that I am accessing the internet through the windows vista "limited access" feature which means it allows me to get on the internet (although it kicks me off every thirty minutes or so)
<pepito> and I downloaded ubuntu to my hard drive, but I have noooooo idea how to install it and get an operating system up and running
<pepito> I am severely clueless when it comes to IT stuff, and I am really really hoping someone here has a clue how I can install ubuntu from my harddrive
<pepito> I am not able to access my USB drive or my CD burner in order to install Ubuntu the way it is explained on the website
<pepito> Can anyone give me any good advice?
<pepito> anybody there?
<Pernig> o/ pepito
<pepito> hi pernig
<Pernig> howcome you can't access a cd burner?
<pepito> because all that windows vista will allow me to do is access the internet
<Pernig> hmmm
<Pernig> and USB drives will not show up?
<pepito> there si a black screen with a small notice in the corner saying that the version of windows has not been confirmed as genuine
<pepito> I can't see or click on ANYthing
<pepito> I have the download window open...
<Pernig> oh dear
<Pernig> right
<pepito> since I just finished downloading ubuntu
<Pernig> when you turn the computer on
<Pernig> wait until the boot screen goes off
<pepito> and I clicked on the downloaded file to try to open it, but it just says that there is no program to open this .iso file
<Pernig> then tap F8 a few times
<pepito> okay .....
<Pernig> you will get a dialogue with things like "last known good configuration, repair this computer and safe mode"
<Pernig> what you want is safe mode
<pepito> okay... taking notes...
<Pernig> you _should_ be able to access CDs and USB devices from there
<pepito> okay,.. that is good to know.... the question I still have is..
<Pernig> fire away
<pepito> how do I get the file from my download file where it is located now into a USB drive?
<pepito> will I be able to access the download from this safe mode?
<Pernig> you will be able to access the download
<Pernig> but you probably won't be able to initiate new downloads
<Pernig> so download the things you need now
<Pernig> i would recommend a tool called unetbootin
<pepito> okay,  unetbootin
<Pernig> http://unetbootin.sourceforge.net/
<pepito> is it pretty intuitive to use?
<Pernig> it's simple enough
<Pernig> that screenshot that you see on the unetbootin homepage
<Pernig> you choose the radio button marked 'diskimage
<Pernig> '
<Pernig> and press the three dots
<Pernig> and choose your Ubuntu iso that you have already downloaded
<pepito> furiously scribbling notes....
<Pernig> then for your drive, choose the USB drive you have plugged in (format this before you run unetbootin)
<pepito> okay that triggers question
<pepito> formating the USB drive involves...? (sorry I am really IT clueless)
<Pernig> go to the start button in the bottom left
<Pernig> click that
<Pernig> then click computer
<Pernig> your drive will be in the section for 'removeable devices'
<pepito> will the start button be there in the "safe mode"?
<Pernig> or something like that
<Pernig> yep
<pepito> ok
<Pernig> then right click on the drive you want to format
<Pernig> it brings up a menu
<Pernig> and format is one of the options
<Pernig> there are a few options there but again quite straightforward
<Pernig> i usually tick 'quick format' or it takes quite a while
<pepito> okay I think I got it... when I format the USB drive I assume whatever is on it will be deleted?
<Pernig> yeah
<Pernig> back up your things first if possible
<Pernig> this will also be the case when you install Ubuntu on your computer's internal hard drive
<pepito> okay
<pepito> I really appreciate this by the way
<pepito> I mean I REALLY appreciate it
<Pernig> no prob
<pepito> can I pick your brain for just a few seconds longer?
<Pernig> i think we were all where you are at one stage
<Pernig> of course
<pepito> I made the decision to do Ubuntu partly because of the ridiculous cost of windows 7 and partly because I find Microsoft's methods.... diabolical to put it nicely.... but mostly because I believe in the concept of open source
<pepito> I have been reading up on alternative economies, Sacred Economics and etc..... anyway my point is I have a strong desire to work with Ubuntu
<pepito> and had already started down this path with OPen office...
<pepito> the question comes now...
<Pernig> ok
<pepito> will Ubuntu be a functional system?   I mean, open office is great in many ways, but when it comes to interfacing with word users, I find that little details like formatting are slightly different... this
<Pernig> of course it will be different
<Pernig> it will feel a little different
<pepito> sort of sucks when I am sending a resume to a potential employer, for example, and formatting needs to be stable
<Pernig> the inner workings are very different
<Pernig> but i have found Ubuntu to be very stable
<pepito> will it be as functional?
<Pernig> i would say so
<Pernig> if not more functional
<Pernig> the difference between an OS and a package like openoffice
<Pernig> your operating is the only thing that will access your PC
<Pernig> once you have it running right, it will stay running right
<Pernig> no one else is going to look at it from somewhere else and cause an incompatibility
<Pernig> i know what you mean about the openoffice documents etc
<Pernig> Ubuntu has a lot of resources being spent on bugfixing, compatibility etc
<pepito> yeah that makes sense.   Honestly just knowing that there is an awesome group of people like this is hugely reassuring.
<Pernig> have you chosen LTS?
<pepito> lol  now you really get to see my IT ignorance.   what is LTS?
<Pernig> sorry
<Pernig> the long term support release of Ubuntu
<pepito> I believe so.   I think it said something about three year or something like that?
<pepito> I didn't know exactly what that meant but it sounded good
<Pernig> 10.04
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Feedback Welcome - http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/10/07/feedback-welcome/
<Pernig> it's ironic that now you have chosen a 'free' OS, you may well find you get better tech support!
<pepito> no it looks like I downloaded 11 04
<Pernig> 11.04 is pretty good
<Pernig> how old is your computer out of interest?
<jacobw> LTS releases are supported for 3 years on the desktop and 5 years on the server
<pepito_> sorry
<jacobw> wb pepito_
<pepito_> vista kicked me out mid chat
<Pernig> did you get kicked off? :P
<pepito_> in order to log me off and remind me of the almighty power of MS
<pepito_> you mentioned the irony of better tech support and I fell off my chair laughing at the truth of it
<jacobw> it is true
<Pernig> we're not a bad bunch
<jacobw> anyway, you want to intall Ubuntu on your laptop?
<pepito_> I'd say you're aaaight so far.   yeah I am going to go through and try to read my scribbled handwriting, follow the process that Pernig laid out, and then I will be back in to let y'all know how it went
<jacobw> assuming the laptop has function USB ports you should be able to make a bootable USB drive to install from
<pepito_> no idea how long it will take, so if you're not here when I get back.... thanks again.
<Pernig> no prob
<jacobw> i haven't read all the exchanges just the original question
<Pernig> let us know how you get on
<Pernig> jacobw: i gave pepito a link to unetbootin homepage and showed how to use
<jacobw> excellent :)
<pepito_> will do... I need to download that first of all I think
<pepito_> oh snap
<Pernig> it's only a few MB
<pepito_> can you give me that link again?
<jacobw> install from usb is much faster than CD
<Pernig> sure
<jacobw> !unetbootin
<lubotu3> For information about installing Ubuntu from USB flash drives, see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/FromUSBStick - For a persistent live USB install, see: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LiveUsbPendrivePersistent
<Pernig> http://www.ubuntu.com/download/ubuntu/download
<Pernig> nope
<Pernig> http://unetbootin.sourceforge.net/
<Pernig> wrong glasses :P
<pepito_> yeah that one
<pepito_> okay it gives me options to download for windows, linux or mac
<pepito_> lol
<pepito_> I assume the windows one?
<Pernig> yeah
<pepito_> since I will be using it before I delete windows for ever and ever
<pepito_> okay
<Pernig> once you have Ubuntu on there is a convenient tool built in for making USB installation disks
<pepito_> okay it is downlloaded.... here goes nothing.
<Pernig> is the USB device showing up now?
<Pernig> too late haha
<Pernig> ooo new kernel and new version of KDE
<Pernig> shame about the download size!
 * jacobw is a lazy GNOME user
<Pernig> to be fair, my main desktop activity is almost an _exact_ copy of the unity interface
<jacobw> at least you'll have a shutdown button :P
<Pernig> haha
<GirlyGirl> bye
<Myrtti> AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGFGGGGHGHGHGHGHGHG
<Myrtti> The Ryanair.com booking system is currently unavailable due to essential system maintenance.
<Myrtti> We apologise for the inconvenience caused by this temporary system outage
<Myrtti> FAIL
<Pernig> oh dear
<Pernig> a friend had problems with that
<Pernig> the online checking thing
<Pernig> checking in*
<gord> with the way ryanair is, i'd be surprised if its up for more than a few minutes a day
<Andres-kain> thinking of going anywhere nice?
<Myrtti> second time a charm
<Myrtti> yeah, UK
<Myrtti> it's a loverly place I hear
<stuphi> Anybody know what happened to avidemux in 11.10? It's gone! :-(
<Pernig> stuphi: maybe there is not a package built for 11.10 yet
<pepito> Well guess who is a fresh convert to ubuntu???  Me is, that's who!
<Pernig> that was quick!
<stuphi> Pernig: It's getting a bit late, aint it?
<pepito> I feel like I am seeing the world in color for the first time!!!!
<pepito> yes it was quick, and painless,  thanks to some awesome help
<Andres-kain> i knew a grasshopper named pepito...
<pepito> microsoft can go play under a bus.   This is awesome stuff
<Andres-kain> uk is awsome. mysociety is awesome.
<pepito> I was once a grasshopper til I learned ubuntu kung fu
<Andres-kain> did you completely remove windows or dualbooting?
<pepito> I completely removed it.   I saw no point in keeping it around when I would have to buy windows 7 in order to get back in and use it again
<pepito> I do have a question already though...
<Pernig> it's in cases like yours when you realise the value of the freedom of software
<Pernig> a lot of people can't get their head around that part
<Pernig> pepito: what's your question?
<pepito> In the set up I told it to set the keyboard for US settings, naively thinking I was being smart.... I live in Germanz, laptop is German kezboard, and I am unfortunatelz alreadz adapted to the German kezboard as zou can see
<Pernig> haha
<Pernig> i'm not sure i can help you with that one
<pepito> how can I go back and tell it to have a german kezboard setting, while maintaining english as the language
<Pernig> but i'm sure someone in here can
<Pernig> you are using 11.04 right?
<pepito> lol well anyway it is a small price to pay for such a feeling of freedom.   yes it is 11.04
<Myrtti> I'd be surprised if there isn't a way in System - Preferences to change the keyboard layout
<Pernig> i will take a look for you, just need to recompile my virtualbox modules
<Myrtti> well, that's atleast it would go in Classic Gnome
<Pernig> pepito: is there a bar with icons that goes all the way down the left hand side of the screen?
<pepito> yes
<Pernig> http://www.mygeekopinions.com/2011/05/how-to-change-keyboard-layout-in-ubuntu.html
<Pernig> ok
<pepito> lol
<Pernig> if you just press the icon in the top left
<Pernig> type control center in there
<Pernig> the icon should come up
<Pernig> it should only change the layout, not the language
<pepito> you know, I can build furniture and hang a door like nobodys business...  I say that to comfort myself as I sit in awe of you guys' prowess in this IT geek stuff
<popey> thats handy, I hate hanging doors
<Pernig> tbh you have the aptitude and the right attitude to be able to do it
<Andres-kain> pepito i swap spanish and english. press the meta key (what was your windows key) and type keyboard
<Andres-kain> from there there are two optios, sadly not at pc now so cant help any further
<pepito> my jaw seriously dropped at the meta key function
<pepito> that is BITCHIN
<Pernig> it's very handy
<Andres-kain> but you can add another configuration
<Pernig> if you hold it down you can use keys to go to your favourite programs on the left
<pepito> and that was incredibly easy.  I added german, so now I should be able to switch back and forth I assume, right_
<Andres-kain> and have a hotkey shortcut or an icon on top right to switch. or both
<pepito> whoa whoa
<stuphi> Pants! Avidemux has been removed from 11.10 :-( bug 831096
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 831096 in avidemux (Ubuntu) "avidemux version 1:2.5.4-0ubuntu7 failed to build in oneiric" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/831096
<pepito> hotkeys is techie jargon there
<Andres-kain> sorry.
<pepito> lol no I should be apologizing....  I am just to busy gazing at this awesomeness that is my new OS
<Andres-kain> hotkey for me is using key combinations to do stuff. like alt+ctl+right arrow (or left)
<Andres-kain> yeah, i never got over the awsomness. it doent go away.
<Andres-kain> hits me very hard everytime i have to get back to work with windows.
<Pernig> Andres-kain: same
<Andres-kain> by the way celebrateubuntu videos in youtube channel look very clean and well made.
<pepito> I just discovered that I can set up timed breaks, to keep me from getting lost and spending hours on this thing, and it will even lock the screen *but onlz if I want* to enforce it
<Pernig> for instance when i want to checksum a download on a friend's computer or do something that i can do very quickly on the command line
<pepito> so hotkeys, okay I am getting distracted
<pepito> I can program hotkeys for certain functions, sort of like speed dial phone numbers in my cell, is that the concept?
<Pernig> yes
<Andres-kain> yes
<Andres-kain> press  meta and type compose (i recall)
<Andres-kain> it will show you what you have.
<Andres-kain> i would leave defaults
<pepito> compose shows no results
<Andres-kain> also hold meta a little longer and your icons on the left will show numbers
<Andres-kain> dang, sorry about that must be another word
<pepito> you mean when I am clicking on it?   tried it, not seeing anything...
<Andres-kain> sorry again, working from memory and in bed here.
<pepito> lol no worries
<Andres-kain> so simple thing... hold meta (the windows key) and number 1
<Andres-kain> that should open your firfox or whatever you have on the top of the list to the left
<Andres-kain> try meta+2,3,4....
<Andres-kain> is that working for you?
<Andres-kain> not very important really i like clicking (not much of a power user)
<pepito> sorry I left the computer for a second
<pepito> okay meta key and number one
<pepito> wait so I click it and press 1?
<Pernig> just hold down the meta key itself
<Pernig> and don't let go until you have pressed a number
<pepito> oh snap
<pepito> now I get it
<Andres-kain> press keyboard button with the windows drawing on it.
<Andres-kain> cool.
<pepito> the meta key the meta key
<Pernig> aye
<pepito> now I am up to speed
<Andres-kain> great!
<pepito> that is friggin awesome
<Andres-kain> do you know about multiple desktops?
<pepito> no.  should I be sitting down?
<Andres-kain> with ubuntu you get 4 for the price of one.
<Andres-kain> and the first one is free.
<Joeb454> Andres-kain: you know you can increase that number, right? I have 9
<pepito> lol seriously I can't contain my exuberance here.    There is a beauty in this that money cannot buy
<pepito> so what is the benefit of multiple desktops?  how would that work?
<Andres-kain> yep you can have as many desktops with different apps running on them as you like. by default 4
<Andres-kain> i use only 2.
<pepito> okay, but why not just have the various apps open on one desktop?   I can run multiple apps on one desktop like I did in windows before, right?
<Andres-kain> yes
<Andres-kain> sorry typing on mobile phne.. not too quick
<pepito> I am in no hurry
<pepito> take your time
<pepito> I have tons of questions and lots of excitement
<Andres-kain> advantage is you cn have one desktop for worlk another for play
<Andres-kain> another for your music...
<Andres-kain> i didn't make sense of it until i statrs using it
<pepito> okay it sounds like it is worth learning about
<pepito> sorry guys I am going to be on here picking your brains until I either fall asleep exhausted and happy or somebody kicks me out
<Joeb454> pepito: as an example, I currently have 5 workspaces in use - 1 for web, 1 for IRC, 1 for IM, 1 for emails and 1 for music
<Andres-kain> so on the left-handed colum of icons go to the bottom ther should be some grey dull looking ones
<Joeb454> it keeps them nice and self contained
<Pernig> no prob pepito
<pepito> every time a turn around something else piques my curiousity
<Pernig> i'm not going to bed for another hour yet
<Andres-kain> click on the grey ones.
<pepito> okay andres-kain I am seeing it
<pepito> HOLY BATSHIZ
<Andres-kain> yep.
<pepito> whoa whoa whoa
<Andres-kain> found it
<pepito> YES
<Andres-kain> i think holding ctl+alt+ arrowkeys cycles through them.
<pepito> okay that is the coolest thing since Vanilla Ice
<MartijnVdS> *dun dun dun dundundun dun*
<pepito> lol
<Andres-kain> you can grag windows between the desktops (called workspace)
<pepito> grag?
<Andres-kain> drag*
<pepito> drag?
<MartijnVdS> drag
<pepito> ok
<Andres-kain> yes
<Andres-kain> :)
<pepito> no kidding.  wow, okay.  when I shut off the computer it all goes back to square one though, right?
<MartijnVdS> Ctrl+Alt+Shift+Arrow = move current window along to new workspace
<Andres-kain> you on live usb?
<Andres-kain> live cd?
<pepito> or can I start it up and already have all four set up with specific intended uses
<pepito> if you are asking what I think you're asking, I installed it on my harddrive.   I am a committed user
<Andres-kain> oh, i get it. you probably can but i do not know how.
<pepito> by square one I mean... okay yeah we on the same page
<Andres-kain> well done.
<pepito> I am going to be shouting about this all over FB
<Andres-kain> there is something called start up manager. but i would get to that yer.
<pepito> I think I might even go graffitti it on a Microsoft billboard somewhere
<pepito> what is this ubuntu one?
<Andres-kain> tried that. just gets you into trouble and kills the nice linux brand.
<Andres-kain> your cloud (ubuntu one)
<Andres-kain> and music streamer to your phone
<pepito> hmmm sounds dreary
<Andres-kain> and browser sync
<pepito> is it more for smartphone users?
<Andres-kain> and ...
<Andres-kain> not necesarily
<pepito> so you wouldnt reccommend the ubuntu one?
<Andres-kain> you use fb right? say you want to share a pdf document
<pepito> okay...
<Andres-kain> i really do recomend it.
<Andres-kain> the pdf doc is in your hdd but not in internet.
<pepito> oh oh  you were responding to me graffiti comment.  sorry, sometimes hard to follow the flow of conversation
<pepito> okay I follow you
<Andres-kain> you put file in ubuntu one folder then right click and choose share via url. copy that link
<Andres-kain> to fb. and all your fb contacts can download it.
<Andres-kain> did i explain myself?
<pepito> aha okay yes that makes sense even to a slow feller like myself
<Andres-kain> ok. do you know about software centre?
<pepito> no.  am I going to have another endorphin rush? :)
<Andres-kain> more imporantly: do you remember your password? i forgot mine the first time.
<pepito> I am also wondering about "empathy messaging" and also questions about email syncing....
<pepito> yes password is good
<Andres-kain> software centre is one of the icons to the left that looks like a shopping bag
<Andres-kain> filled with stuff.
<pepito> i see it
<pepito> it looks like christmas come early
<pepito> hows it work?
<Andres-kain> ok. if you want to install something go there first.
<Andres-kain> it is safe, mainained and easier to use than the windows installers.
<pepito> install something meaning, downloading anything?
<Andres-kain> just as easily you can uninstall in the same way.
<pepito> oh wait okay I see
<pepito> yes the windows stuff was kind of a pain in the ass
<Pernig> it takes care of the downloading for you
<Andres-kain> yes, and 99% is free of cost.
<Andres-kain> ok you mentioned epifany?
<pepito> okay
<Andres-kain> how are you chatting now? different computer?
<pepito> I am browsing through it right now.     I mentioned endorphin rush, close enough to the same thing
<Andres-kain> web?
<pepito> web
<Andres-kain> cool.
<Andres-kain> install a simple game to give it a try.
<pepito> okay it asks my password, which is cool
<pepito> nobody can download crap without asking me first
<pepito> I like
<pepito> got to take off for a second, brb
<Andres-kain> pepito, i'm going to have to leave you but i want to say a few things: epifany is for chat: irc, facebookchat, googlechat/talk,... gwibber is for facebook, twitter,...
<Andres-kain> evolution is for email like outlook but a bit easier i think.
<Andres-kain> once you have them set up you can access all from top right (notificatio area)
<pepito> well I can't thank you enough, all of you.   I am going to be in here quite a bit I think so I will look forward to seeing you around
<Andres-kain> you can set it up from there.
<pepito> okay I will play around and see what I figure out.
<Andres-kain> i normally use ubuntu-uk mailing list. it is a bit slower but i like it better.
<pepito> it is asking me about adding the game to the "launcher".  what is the launcher
<Andres-kain> enjoy your freedom.
<pepito> thanks Andres-kain
<Andres-kain> launcher is th list of the left
<pepito> aha.  okay
<Pernig> later pepito
<Pernig> it's nice to hear such a positive first impression
<Andres-kain> you can drag and reorder them as you like.
<pepito> are you checking out too Pernig?    its nice to finally discover something that can give me such a fantastic experience!
<pepito> it might just be the contrast in comparison to Windows experiences, but I think it is the bomb
<Pernig> aye, gonna jump into bed and switch to the phone
<pepito> well I wish all a good night.   I will play around a bit and then climb into bed myself
<Andres-kain> the best thing yet to come: update manager
<pepito> lol
<pepito> cant wait.   quick question, how is the libreoffice compatibility with my existing word docs?
<Andres-kain> updates all your software un one place. and does it for ...
<Andres-kain> comparibility is great. even macros.
<Andres-kain> i am not a power user on any
<pepito> okay it just keeps getting better
<Andres-kain> on the plus side librewritter can save to pdf and html out of the box.
<Andres-kain> unlike word.
<pepito> cool
<pepito> i love how, when I hover over something, an explanation pops up that is actually well written and very easy to grasp even for no knowers like me
<Andres-kain> ohh i have a good one for you then.
<pepito> lol okay I am sitting down now
<Andres-kain> if you have audio files and you hover (hover without clicking) over the file icon it plays the audio with out opening a player
<Andres-kain> hover the mouse i mean.
<pepito> no kidding?????
<pepito> I got to try this
<Andres-kain> so if it says track3 you quickly know what song it is.
<pepito> this is the genius of open source
<Andres-kain> ok love doing this for longer but i wake up at 6 tomorrow.
<pepito> hey get to bed already
<pepito> thanks for the tips
<Andres-kain> glad to help! good night!
<pepito> see you around
#ubuntu-uk 2011-10-08
<GirlyGirl> Morning
<MartijnVdS> \o
<czajkowski> aloha
<AlanBell> oh dear czajkowski
<czajkowski> best not to come near me
<czajkowski> foul form
<JGJones> CYMRU AM BYTH!
<pepito> good morning!
<pr0ph3t> morning all
<pr0ph3t> I'm having some problems uploading my music on ubuntu one from oneric, can anybody help me out please?
<pr0ph3t> I have 2.9 Gb of music to upload but it always stops syncing before really completing the upload
<pr0ph3t> it says file sync is up to date but it's not
<pepito> anzone know how to join the mailing list_
<Andres-kain> good morning. i hope someone got good night sleep
<dwatkins> I think I did, not sure though - still waking up.
<czajkowski> pr0ph3t: ask in #ubuntuone but it's a saturday and very early in the morning
<pr0ph3t> czajkowski, thanks
<pr0ph3t> anyone else getting the same issue?
<Myrtti> meh, I should pack...
<dwatkins> pr0ph3t: I don't know much about it, but have you tried form the command line, in case it gives you a more useful error to google?
<pr0ph3t> dwatkins, I was not aware of a command line version, or do you mean starting it from the command line?
<dwatkins> I believe so, pr0ph3t: http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/lucid/man1/u1sdtool.1.html
<dwatkins> I only have ssh or very slow graphical access to my Ubuntu 10.10 machine, being 450 miles away from it, but this reminds me I should set up a directory to sync with it.
 * Myrtti likes SpiderOak
<dwatkins> Ah yes, I was planning on trying that out too, thanks Myrtti.
<dwatkins> Does anyone currently using SpiderOak want to give me a code so they might get free additional storage or something?
<Myrtti> sure
<Myrtti> dwatkins: https://spideroak.com/download/referral/eb01e09153ee18dd6133848a1d597e60
<Myrtti> you get additional storage too with it
<dwatkins> thanks Myrtti :)
<pr0ph3t> why not Ubuntu One Myrtti?
<brobostigon> morning everyone.
<Andres-kain> morning
<Myrtti> pr0ph3t: encryption
<popey> should banshee be able to see the music on my iphone?
<popey> I'm pretty sure it did in the past
<Andres-kain> it did with my itouch i seem to recall.
<popey> ta
 * popey does some bug chasing
<Myrtti> backpain doesn't bode well for the flight
<Myrtti> :-(
<Andres-kain> ryan air booking worked?
<Myrtti> yeah
<Myrtti> second time a charm
<Andres-kain> did the price go up second time? heard rumour about that...
<Andres-kain> something to do with cookies
<Andres-kain> might have been fud
<Andres-kain> again, 11.10 celebrateubuntu youtube is video very good. shared it loads.
<Andres-kain> olaya waking up second time singing. priceless.
<Andres-kain> bye!
<Myrtti> meh
<Myrtti> yeah, booking prices do actually go up because of cookies on Ryanair, when you are reserving
<Myrtti> I fortunately were checking in.
<pepito> lol @ Andres-kain.... I think I finally hit the sack around 2:30
<constrictor> are there xubuntu 11.10 users here?
<pepito> okay I am a brandnew ubuntu user (11.4) and I gotta say I am BLOWN AWAY
<constrictor> pepito: in a good way or a bad way
<pepito> just discovered and installed it last night, quite by happenstance out of frustration stemming from the evilness that is Windows....@ constrictor -in a GOOD way-
<pepito> but I do have a TON of questions
<constrictor> pepito: I suppose you're in the right place
<pepito> lol I think so
<pepito> last night was already a huge help, just getting it installed, thanks to Andres-kain and Pernig (sp?)
<pepito> I can't stop being amazed by this
<pepito> but I keep hitting some brick walls, and I think it is mostly because I am extremely IT illiterate
<constrictor> happens to the best of us
<constrictor> any particular issues you have?
<pepito> :)   like for example, I cannot play any of my music with banshee (lots of wma files, lots of mp4 files, but even mp3 files wont play) but they will play in the movie player
<pepito> I downloaded the plugins that were automatically found, but after doing so I got a message saying they were insufficient
<pepito> youtube videos wont play without a plug in, but I get a message saying there is no plug in to be found for flash player
<constrictor> have you installed a package called ubuntu-restricted-extras ?
<pepito> no.  and I am wincing right now because it sounds really technical and as much as I would like to learn about this stuff I get clueless.   Pernig had to walk me through literally step by step last night#
<pepito> where do I find ubuntu restricted extras?
<constrictor> just start up your synaptic package manager and type in the search ubuntu-restricted
<constrictor> that should find it
<brobostigon> sudo apt-get install ubuntu-restricted-extras in terminal.
<pepito> the synaptic package manager is... :-S
<pepito> what used to be the windows button?
<constrictor> that's it brobostigon, i was going for the GUI approach
<brobostigon> constrictor: ok, good point, maybe better.
<constrictor> click on the ubuntu icon, for the applications
<pepito> okay done
<constrictor> or perhaps it's the button called system not sure
<constrictor> i don't use gnome
<constrictor> let me know how you get on
<brobostigon> or from terminal, gksudo synaptic
<pepito> I am really confused
<pepito> think of me as a drooling three year old
<brobostigon> pepito: hit the button in the top left, in the search, type synaptic.
<pepito> okay got it!
<constrictor> good now search for ubuntu-restricted-extras
<pepito> done
<pepito> four options pop up
<pepito> 3 look the same
<pepito> on says ubuntu-restricted-addons
<constrictor> are you able to list them out here for us
<pepito> I assume it is not that one
<constrictor> nah you want the one that says ubuntu-restricted-extras
<pepito> the other three all say ubuntu-restricted-extras and have the number 43 next to them
<pepito> whatdoes the number mean?
<pepito> ah okay, latest version...
<pepito> nevermind
<pepito> so they are probably all the same program?
<constrictor> they are all the same but for different desktop environments
<constrictor> you don't want the kubuntu-restricted-extras nor xubuntu-restricted-extras you want the one that starts with only U
<constrictor> so ubuntu-restricted-extras
<pepito> okay I didnt even notice the lettering difference...
<pepito> thanks for that
<constrictor> :)
<pepito> I can build beautiful wood furniture in my sleep, and am really good at drawing.    Just to make myself feel better :)
<pepito> okay it says I will have to remove some other applications.   should be okay, right?
<pepito> libavcodec52
<pepito> and
<pepito> libavutil50
<constrictor> I believe that should be alright, they will be replaced by something else
<pepito> okay.   I marked it for installation, and it automatically checkmarked the addons as well.  I assume it knows what it is doing
<constrictor> it should be replaced by libavcodec-extra-52
<constrictor> and libavutil50 will be replaced by labavutil-extra-50 consider them as upgrades
<pepito> I can only aspire to be as on the ball with this kind of stuff as you guys.   how you retain this kind of stuff I can only guess comes with lots of experience
<pepito> okay so once I have marked them as downloads it does the rest automatically?  or do I need to initiate the installation process
<brobostigon> pepito: it has taken a decade, and i am still learning, everyday.
<pepito> ?
<constrictor> pepito: it comes with time I think
<constrictor> you need to click apply at the top
<pepito> awesome
<constrictor> there will be some windows opening randomly to confirm that you accept some license of some sort, i think it's for fonts just tick the box and click forward when it comes up
<pepito> I really appreciate this stuff
<constrictor> I also appreciated it when I was new
<pepito> I can't stop being amazed at this entire world of ubuntu, not just an amazingly well designed OS but the entire community behind it and the principles on which it all operaties
<pepito> linux, all of it.
<pepito> I had no idea it had ever existed until last night
<pepito> all i ever knew about was mac and windows
<constrictor> :)
<constrictor> there's a really helpful wiki too
<Andres-kain> yep felling never left me either. i became a real pain to my friends.
<pepito> o/ andres-kain
<pepito> thought you left again
<Andres-kain> i just posted 7 times a video from celebrateubuntu.
<pepito> lol
<Andres-kain> left but now on a short break from chores.
<pepito> I want to watch the youtube vids but they wont play yet
<Andres-kain> how are you getting along?
<popey> pepito: ubuntu-restricted-extras will install adobe flash
<popey> pepito: which will mean you can watch youtube videos
<Andres-kain> go to youtube.com\html5
<popey> (if you haven't instaleld it already)
<constrictor> hi popey
<popey> hello
<Andres-kain> and say you want to opt in.
<pepito> I am trying to glean as much info as I can from various sources -that is really good to know popey- without questioning the room here to death
<pepito> the problem is its mostly written by techies for techies and it is entirely over my head lol
<constrictor> i wish bbc i player would do the HTML5 thing too
<Andres-kain> i think next time you install ubuntu (for a friend) check a box that says "third party" software to install
<popey> constrictor: they do, technically :D
<popey> constrictor: I use get_iplayer
<Andres-kain> for bbc i use get-iplayer
<constrictor> how do I get_iplayer
<constrictor> repo?
<popey> it is, but thats old
<popey> there's a git repo
<Andres-kain> bbc now have a linux client as well for downloads
<popey> you also need flvstreamer or rtmpdump if you want to get HD stream dumps
<pepito> @Andres-kain: I entered that address in my bar and it says it doesnt exist
<popey> pepito: slash is the wrong way round
<constrictor> Andres-kain: that's an adobe AIR application I think
<popey> youtube.com/html5
<Andres-kain> might have typed it wrong. www.youtube.com/html5
<pepito> okay
<Andres-kain> opt in.
<popey> not all videos work in html5 on youtube though
<popey> best to just install ubuntu-restricted-extras then you get flash, and can watch any video
<Andres-kain> and you will be able to see most except the ones with ads. so win win
<popey> well, not win if you actually want to watch those videos :D
<gord> i have html5 mode enabled *and* flash installed :) generally a good idea to install flash
<popey> ya
<popey> oo yay, compiz crash
<pepito> okay I just opted in.   what is it exactly?   a better player?
<Andres-kain> if you do not want to get into free-libre software dilemas. i do not have flash. but lets not go there.
<popey> pepito: have you installed ubuntu-restricted-extras?
<pepito> yes
<Andres-kain> html5 is kinda like an advanced web language. you opted to translate flash language to html5 (html5 is open source flash isn't)
<popey> one step at a time
<Andres-kain> yes. sorry i'll leave you in popey's capable hands
<Andres-kain> best get flash for starters.
<Andres-kain> times up. see you!
<ali1234> "normal" people that i know are starting to appear on google+
<popey> heh
<popey> same here
<pepito> okay okay
<pepito> sorry I got distracted by my midget
<pepito> (midget=3 yo son)
<pepito> so heres another question, already
<gord> no one fills out the about section on google + so i have no idea who half the people that add me are :(
<pepito> I am new to irc chat since last night, but I can already tell I will on here a lot
<ali1234> gord: you just keep saying that because you want more people to add you...
<pepito> from the ubuntu uk website they mentioned using other programs to get on the chat (it IS kind of a pain in the ass to use the webbrowser)
<pepito> so I began exploring those options and I got confused.
<pepito> that happens easily
<pepito> what is the best way to set up irc use and access for frequent and easy use?
<ali1234> it depends
<pepito> on what exactly?
<ali1234> on your preferences
<ali1234> and what your idea of "easy" means
<brobostigon> i have irssi + bitlbee inside byobu, on my vps.
<popey> pepito: xchat-gnome
<popey> is generally considered easy for beginners to ubuntu
<brobostigon> agreed.
<pepito> easy means my kid could figure it out.  then I have a fighting chance
<pepito> xchat-gnome.  okay googling now
<ali1234> there are basically 4 options
<ali1234> if you want it to be super easy xchat-gnome is best
<ali1234> if you want it to look nice, then empathy
<brobostigon> also nice gnoem3 integration with empathy, :
<brobostigon> gnome3*
<ali1234> if you want it to look kind of nice but still work, then pidgin
<ali1234> and if you want it to run in a shell then irssi
<pepito> okay good point.  I noticed the empathy messaging
<pepito> I figured out how to sync it with FB
<ali1234> empathy has irc support but it is pretty much worthless
<pepito> but thats as far as I got
<pepito> I assume I can connect it to various other chats, like irc
<ali1234> yeah
<ali1234> not as many as pidgin though
<Myrtti> empathy is fairly horrible IRC client
<Myrtti> pidgin is moderately so
<Myrtti> xchat-gnome is an improvement, xchat is ok.
<ali1234> pidgin has many nice features not present in any of the other "multiple IM" clients
<pepito> so to summarize, simply xchat-gnome is best in terms of easiness
<Myrtti> pretty much yeah
<ali1234> xchat-gnome comes preconfigured to connect to this channel, so it's pretty easy
<ali1234> i don't think we ever figured out *why*, but there you go
<pepito> will xchat-gnome sync other chat formats too, like FB?
<ali1234> no
<ali1234> irc only
<pepito> okay, no big loss
<ali1234> other than it being preconfigured, it isn't particularly easy to use
<pepito> I dont often chat on FB anyway
<brobostigon> you could connect it to a bitlbee server. to get those other protocols. ?
<ali1234> or you could just install pidgin
<pepito> so I am looking at a website about it, and it is unfortunately full of jargon I dont quite grasp
<pepito> xchat-gnome packages can be obtained from repositories of almost all GNU/Linux/Unix/*BSD distributions that offer the GNOME desktop environment, so see your package management softwar
<pepito> what the hell does that mean???
<popey> pepito: Ubuntu Software Centre
<popey> open that, search for xchat
<popey> thats the "package management software"
<jacobw> pidgin can do facebook chat
<pepito> okay okay....
<pepito> so I have already in my system...
<pepito> what is listed here?
<popey> some of it
<pepito> or are these only reccomendations based off my search?
<ali1234> you have empathy already
<popey> the software centre is a place where you can install new stuff
<pepito> ok
<popey> in ubuntu we tend to recommend people use that
<pepito> ok
<popey> rather then pick software from random websites found via a google search
<pepito> aside from it being apparently much more intuitive and user friendly is there a particular reason why it is more reccomendable?
<pepito> (Im thinking safety issues maybe?)
<popey> upates
<popey> you will get security and bug updates
<ali1234> the software in software centre has been "approved" by ubuntu developers
<popey> which you wont get if you install from a random 3rd party website
<ali1234> possibly not directly, however there is a chain of trust
<popey> that too :D
<pepito> aha ok that is really cool
<popey> it also makes stuff easy to remove
<ali1234> btw software centre and synaptic both get packages from the same place
<popey> so you can install all those chat clients via the software centre, and if you dont like them, remove them
<ali1234> you can use whichever one you prefer
<pepito> that brings up another good question.   what is the difference?  why both?
<popey> USC looks nicer :D
<ali1234> synaptic is an advanced interface
<ali1234> software centre has paid apps in addition to the traditional free software stuff
<brobostigon> aptitude is like synaptic, but ncurses.
<ali1234> aptitude is a mess :(
<popey> brobostigon: I suspect the word 'ncurses' means nothing to pepito
<pepito> popey is RIGHT
<popey> :D
<pepito> :)
<popey> Happens once in a while
<brobostigon> popey: good point,
<popey> You got lucky.
<brobostigon> it is similer to synaptic, but command line.
<pepito> lol
<ali1234> pepito: ncurses is a tool that lets you make graphical style interfaces on the command line. which is pointless and annoying imo :)
<pepito> lol I will take your word for it since it all sounds really really alot like something I need a two year degree to understand
<ali1234> pretty much
<pepito> baby steps to the elevator for me
<popey> pepito: you're picking this up quickly :D
<pepito> (extra kudos if you recognize the movie reference)
<popey> I don't
<pepito> thanks popey.  I am a sharp tool, I just have never been in this realm before, and it is like being born again, but into a bright and fascinating new world
 * AlanBell is at a magic show
<pepito> I cant mention enough how great it is to have this kind of a help resource
<brobostigon> we try, :)
<popey> AlanBell: jelly and ice cream later?
<AlanBell> no, sadly
<AlanBell> at the library
<pepito> on a sidenote similarly related, I have been studying up a lot over the past year or two on alternative economies, especially gift economies and the like, which is exactly what ubuntu is and it is really neat to see these principles in action and actually working
<pepito> I reccomend Charles Eisenstein for anyone who has an interest in the subject.
<ali1234> seen bitcoin?
<pepito> I just recently discovered it like, a week ago
<pepito> !!! awesomeness to the 3rd degree!
<lubotu3> pepito: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<pepito> lol well for an unintelligent bot you have a stunning amount of wit
<pepito> ali1234: what is your take on bitcoin?
<pepito> question goes for anyone in the room who is somewhat familiar with it....   I loved it from a principle point of view, but as a non techie I have no idea as to the functionality or feasability of it
<ali1234> i wouldn't buy them
<ali1234> however i would accept them
<ali1234> the crypto side of it has help up well so far
<pepito> I wondered about that myself.... it seems as though cracking firewalls or whatever they are is always just a mattre of time
<pepito> it would take a sizeable amount of resources to keep the security up to snuff
<ali1234> all the thefts and attacks so far have been based on wallet theft
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: that's the easiest way to do it really
<pepito> the major downside I see to it is that it is not a feasible system for a no-know-joe like me
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: Just like it's easier to torture your encryption password out of you than to try and break AES256
<pepito> meaning it seems as though to use it and grasp it you have to be an MIT grad
<ali1234> it is perhaps too easy to use currently
<pepito> or employ one
<ali1234> hence all the thefts
<ali1234> anyway you can't really buy anything with them at the moment
<ali1234> i think they are still over valued
<pepito> true.   I think atm it is more or less a beginning phenomenon
<pepito> so I just discovered that for the software center to operate the synaptic must be closed
<pepito> (see that?  I just used jargon and understood it)
<pepito> so now that my xchat gnome is installed, where should it appear for me to open it up?   its not in my launcher
<brobostigon> pepito: as before, if you type into the search, it should filter to how it.
<pepito> ok
<brobostigon> that didnt make sense, i meant, it should then filter to the parameters you type in.
<pepito> no i got it .....ok i am switching over
<brobostigon> :)
<pepito> um
<pepito> how do i enter the chanel???
<brobostigon> not a clue, never used xchat, myself.
<gordonjcp> urgh, xchat
<pepito> got it
<pepito> haha! i love new discoveries!
<pepito_> hello
<pepito_> new world
<gordonjcp> pepito_: now do /nick pepito to remove the underscore... ;-)
<gordonjcp> and you might want to register your nick
<pepito> !!!!!!! friggin AWESOME
<pepito> how do I register it?
<ali1234>  /msg nickserv help register
<pepito> my newborn is sleeping on my chest
<pepito> I love it, but makes it hard to type
<pepito> okay nother question
<pepito> some youtube vids wont play and some will
<pepito> I assumed it was because I opted into the html5 test, but after opting back out the same problem persists
<pepito> it says I need the adobe flash player
<brobostigon> can you be more specific, define doesnt work?
<brobostigon> !info flashplugin-installer
<lubotu3> flashplugin-installer (source: flashplugin-nonfree): Adobe Flash Player plugin installer. In component multiverse, is optional. Version 10.3.183.10ubuntu0.11.04.1 (natty), package size 8 kB, installed size 184 kB (Only available for i386 amd64 lpia)
<brobostigon> pepito: install that package, that should install adobe flash for you.
<pepito> roger...
<pepito> not finding it in the software center
<brobostigon> pepito: try with synaptic.
<pepito> ok found it, it said somethuing about reinstalling.... guess i already had had it
<brobostigon> yes. agreed.
<brobostigon> the metpackage, ubuntu-restricted-extras should have installed flash.
<brobostigon> metapackage*
<pepito> still wont play the video
<brobostigon> pepito: which browser are you using?
<pepito> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVhiRWUKzHA&feature=relmfu
<pepito> firefox
<brobostigon> pepito: does it show in about:plugins ?
<pepito> :s where is that?
<brobostigon> pepito: type that into the address bar, and hit enter.
<brobostigon> about:plugins
<brobostigon> it shows the plugins, firefox currently sees.
<MartijnVdS> (instead of http://something.com/ type about:plugins)
<brobostigon> yes
<brobostigon> :)
<pepito> done
<brobostigon> pepito: does it show flash?
<pepito> it shows...a bunch of ice tea
<pepito> a few quicktime
<pepito> windows media player
<pepito> VLC and DVX
<pepito> I see nothing about flash
<brobostigon> that means, firefox isnt seeing it, if it doesnt show it there.
<pepito> is that a defect within firefox or a defect within my setup somewhere?
<pepito> iow, can I fix it?  or just get another browser?
<brobostigon> !flash
<lubotu3> To install Flash see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RestrictedFormats/Flash - See also  !Restricted and !Gnash
<brobostigon> pepito: it should show hoow to fix said error, on that page.
<pepito> ok I am looking at the site now, thanks.   already a question... how do I know if I have 64 bit or 32?   I did installations based on the assumption I had 32 last night, could this be a source of my problems?
<pepito> <-----(doesnt know exactly what a bit is)
<brobostigon> pepito: if you open terminal, and type "uname -a" and hit enter, it will tell you.
<gordonjcp> pepito: 32-bit is the safest option unless you have ridiculous amounts of memory
<gordonjcp> 99.999999999999% of users do not require 64-bit
<gordonjcp> the remaining tiny fraction of a percent don't, either
<pepito> am I getting too deep here?   what is terminal?    okay I am part of the 99%
<pepito> lets forget about bits and terminals for now then
<brobostigon> pepito: terminal, is a command line app.
<MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: 64-bit + <4GB memory still increases the "Search space" if you're using address space randomization
<MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: i.e. it's a bit more secure against memory overflow attacks
<pepito> that is what anonymous did on paypal and those other sites over wikileaks a while ago, right?
<Myrtti> no not really
<bigcalm> Good morning :)
<pepito> lol okay baby steps to the elevator
<pepito> it looks like I needed to completely restart my browser, I am doing that now
<pepito> no, that wasnt it.... back to check the list again
<brobostigon> sheldon, on big bang theory, just stated, ubuntu is his favorite linux based operating system. :)
<jacobw> brobostigon: i feel as if i should know which episode that is :P
<brobostigon> jacobw: let me find out.
<brobostigon> jacobw: an ep called, the staircase implementation.
<brobostigon> jacobw: very close to the end.
<popey> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1-Q_8EbB8A
<pepito> I figured it out!    I, me, this guy who just discovered ubuntu's existence less than 24 hours ago, has just figured it out!
<pepito> I am very pleased with myself.    ahem, not to mention awesome  help from y'all.  my youtube vids now work.
<dwatkins> excellent, pepito
<pepito> okay nother question!
<brobostigon> :)
<pepito> playing around found somthing about preferred applications...
<pepito> most of it makes sense
<pepito> then there is something about mobility
<pepito> options are either custom (current setting) or something called...
<bigcalm> !ping
<lubotu3> another contentless ping... sigh...
<pepito> onBoard
<pepito> what is THAT?
<AlanBell> onboard is an on-screen keyboard
<pepito> okay.   and now I am watching a tutorial vid on ytube he is customizng his launcher via something called Unity or compizconfig or something
<pepito> he doesnt explain how to get there and I cant find it in my system
<brobostigon> compizconfig-settingsmanager. it is, you need to install that.
<AlanBell> compizconfig-settings-manager
<brobostigon> sorry, wrong spelling.
<AlanBell> install compizconfig-settings-manager then run ccsm to launch it
<pepito> python-compiz along with it I take it
<AlanBell> yeah, that is fine
<pepito> aaaaaah.   bitchin!
<brobostigon> lhsee rocks, :)
<pepito> I'd give you guys all a cookie if I could.
<pepito> not the computer kind either
<pepito> I think you call them biscuits?
<pr0ph3t> I'm having some problems uploading my music on ubuntu one from oneric, can anybody help me out please? I have 2.9 Gb of music to upload but it always stops syncing before really completing the upload, it says file sync is up to date but it's not.
<pr0ph3t> I tried on ubuntuone channel as dwatkins suggested
<pr0ph3t> but it seems very few people are on today
<pr0ph3t> I was just wondering whether you had a similar experience perhaps
<pepito> The new value for the edge binding for the action Reveal Mode in plugin Ubuntu Unity Plugin conflicts with the action Flip Down of the Desktop Wall plugin.
<pepito> Do you wish to disable Flip Down in the Desktop Wall plugin?
<pepito> do I wish to disable Flip Down?  not sure what the wall plugin is, I am trying to make the launcher reveal from multiple sides of the screen
<dwatkins> pr0ph3t: did I? oh :) I was thinking the command line tool might be helpful too
<dwatkins> You should be able to see what each of them does in the help, pepito - or on the plugin website
<pepito> ok checking thanks
<dwatkins> It's probably just that they use the same key.
<AlanBell> pepito: you might well end up messing things up or getting a bit crashy playing with that stuff
<AlanBell> but do carry on playing, it is fun :)
<pepito> lol good point
<pepito> really all I want is to make the navigating a bit more intuitive.   The thing I like (or maybe am just used to) from windows was the navigation bar at the bottom of the screen, quickly being able to jump from one window to the next
<pepito> I am sure that there is a way for that to work here too, but I havent figured it out yet
<pepito> I can't always see what all I have opened unless i open them individually on each of my four desktops
<pepito> I was hoping this might be a solution for that
<dwatkins> you can always reset to defaults if you lose certain key combinations, right?
<dwatkins> I should install a recent Ubuntu in VirtualBox so I actually know what Unity is like.
<pepito> yes, thats a good point.  it has the default reset button right next to it, that makes it a little reassuring
 * dwatkins installs 11.04
<jacobw> pepito: hold down the super (windows) key and all the programs on the launcher get a number to launch them
<jacobw> pepito: unity can be keyboard controlled, which saves alot of mousing around
<ali1234> dwatkins: unity doesn't work properly in virtualbox
<dwatkins> ali1234: oh, that's a shame - even in fullscreen mode?
<ali1234> yeah
<ali1234> unity2d works though
<dwatkins> ok, I assume I can select unity2d at some point during installation or at login-time
<ali1234> if you install 11.10 it will default to unity2d
<brobostigon> yes, similer issues with gnome-shell, gnome3 fallback, works though,
<ali1234> until you install virtualbox guest utils
<ali1234> then it will think you have 3d acceleration and switch to unity
<ali1234> and it will fail to work properly
<ali1234> but then you can select it on the login screen
<pepito> okay I played around with the superkey feature, and you are right... it is great for navigating except that it only goes to ten keys
<pr0ph3t> if it wasn't that I'm using a beta release I would say I've wasted my money on Ubuntu one
<dwatkins> You forgot to mention it's free, pr0ph3t ;)
<pr0ph3t> dwatkins, I paid for it though, I wanted the 25Gb and the Music streaming option :P
<pr0ph3t> admittedly it is very cheap though
<dwatkins> Is that Ubuntu Gold?
<pr0ph3t> dwatkins, what is?
<dwatkins> I was making a joke, pr0ph3t - there's a meme about paying for Facebook and having a "Gold" account which gives you extra functionality.
<pr0ph3t> aaaaaaahhhh
<AlanBell> ali1234: it works for me
<pr0ph3t> I geddit
<ali1234> AlanBell: well it doesn't works for me
<AlanBell> not denying that :) but from my experience it is worth trying, install virtualbox-ose-guest-x11 from the repos in the guest and it works fine
<dwatkins> thank, I shall try this AlanBell
<ali1234> it loads up, works for about 10 minutes, then crashes. in my experience
<dwatkins> is this a new install, ali1234?
<ali1234> yes
<dwatkins> bah, I was hoping I'd be able to have lots of bells and whistles.
<ali1234> i haven't done a upgrade since... years ago
<ali1234> if you want that, install KDE
<dwatkins> Maybe I'll have to wait until I get a larger hard disk so I can triple-boot my laptop with it.
<ali1234> (it does not work properly in virtualbox either)
<ali1234> KDE reminds me of a department store at christmas
<AlanBell> I have been using unity in a virtualbox for hours on end
<ali1234> everything is glowing and shiny
<AlanBell> did a customer demo on it yesterday
<dwatkins> KDE seems to have loads of keyboard shortcuts
<ali1234> but you just know there's a fat guy dressed as santa smoking a cig out the back
<AlanBell> :)
<dwatkins> heh, yeah - I'd be able to smell him ;)
<dwatkins> (being an ex-addict makes me particularly good at detecting this)
<pr0ph3t> an ex-KDE addict?
 * dwatkins sniggers
<constrictor> when's release candidate dropping?
<brobostigon> have a look at the release schedule on the wiki. :)
<brobostigon> wiki.ubuntu.com/OnerircReleaseSchedule
<brobostigon> ignore that url, it isnt correct.
<brobostigon> constrictor: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/OneiricReleaseSchedule
<AlanBell> 18:54 < skaet> AlanBell,  pre-release images are posted for testing on the ISO tracker http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/;  these are dry runs for the official candidates that will be cut on Monday, so testing is much appreciated.
<brobostigon> the new android market update to gingerbread, is quite more resource hungry, than the previous version. and i dont like all the ads, on the home screen of the app.
<Daviey> Hmm, you don't need to wait until RC.. very little is changing from the current spin to the RC.
<Daviey> please test early !
 * popey downloads the iso
<Daviey> Oh, please don't find bugs :)
<popey> heh, i have a machine where /var/run sym links to /run
<popey> and /run symlinks to /var/run
<popey> properly broken
<popey> not sure how to fix that
<Daviey> eek, i know the package that caused that!
<popey> its an old oneiric install I'm updating
<popey> probably optimistic
<Daviey> popey: i think you should just be able to delete /run
<popey> ok
<Daviey> popey: check /var/lock is valid aswell
<popey> and make /run
<popey> yay, thats better
<popey> dpkg --configure -a continues okay
<popey> thanks
<Daviey> I think it gets recreated if it doesn't exist
<popey> I wasnt sure which one to bin :D
<popey> it didnt for me, but it was in a sorry state
<popey> so i am not surprised :D
<Daviey>  /run is the king, the others are wannabe symlinks
 * popey restarts the dist-upgrade
<jacobw> !oneiric
<lubotu3> Ubuntu 11.10 (Oneiric Ocelot) will be the fifteenth release of Ubuntu.  Codename announcement here: http://www.markshuttleworth.com/?p=646 Discussion and support in #ubuntu+1
 * Daviey is contemplating an installer change... :)
<popey> yay, all fixed
 * popey hugs Daviey 
<jacobw> does anyone know of a utility that generates images like the one used here? http://xkcd.com/936/
 * jacobw wonders how difficult it'd be to make if it doesn't already exist
<dwatkins> jacobw: which part of that comic are you referring-to?
<jacobw> horse battery staple correct
<AlanBell> s/images/passphrases/
<dwatkins> So you want to make an image from some text?
<AlanBell> book + blindfold + pin
<jacobw> no, i want to peice together an image from unlikely elements to get a passphrase from
<dwatkins> So, choose random words from the dictionary then make an image showing them?
<jacobw> AlanBell, that could be much simpler :)
<jacobw> yes dwatkins
<dwatkins> ImageMagick has an option to annotate text to an image in "convert" but I suspect this may be overkill.
<jacobw> i think it is overkill now i'm thinking of the technical complexity
<dwatkins> shouldn't be difficult, much easier than the reverse (OCR) :)
<dwatkins> I imagine the simplest method would be to create a blank image then use "convert" to annotate it, the size of the image would depend on the number of characters, use a fixed-width font to ensure the size of the image itself is big enough etc.
<penguin42> dwatkins: Actually, it will do convert foo.txt my.png   - although still need to work out image size
<dwatkins> oooh neat
<AlanBell> !precise
<lubotu3> Ubuntu 12.04 LTS (Precise Pangolin) will be the sixteenth release of Ubuntu. Codename announcement here: http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/784
<gordonjcp> jacobw: easy enough
<gordonjcp> jacobw: investigate the cairo bindings for whatever language you are using
<dwatkins> jacobw: http://www.imagemagick.org/Usage/text/#label might help
<jacobw> cheers gordonjcp dwatkins
<dwatkins> welcome :)
<danfish> windows is a parasite - my Dad has a dual boot ubuntu-xp system and after having to boot into xp to use a label printer found his MBR overwritten
<danfish> no option to boot ubuntu
<dwatkins> did it update itself, danfish?
<penguin42> danfish: That's odd - anyway, can do a grub reinstall from a rescue cd
<danfish> penguin42: exactly - but there's an excellent live cd that does that and that alone - https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Boot-Repair
<penguin42> hmm never tried that
<danfish> I got dad to download that and boot from it and bam - 2 mins later order restored
<penguin42> nice
 * hamitron just has 1 comp per OS
<hamitron> ;)
<dwatkins> I wonder how it knows what to do.
<danfish> he's 250 miles away so not easy!
<hamitron> >1 sorry
<danfish> he now wants me to 'nuke' xp at my earliest opportunity :D
<dwatkins> Just make it boot Ubuntu by default, just in case?
<danfish> dwatkins: that's the odd thing, it was
<dwatkins> oh, strange that it would cause problems, then - I can only assume it automatically updated itself and overwrote the MBR when updating its kernel.
<danfish> dwatkins: that's what I assume as well.
<danfish> whole family will soon be ubuntu :) I wonder if Landscape offer a family package ;)
 * penguin42 needs to do a bit of problem hunting on my dads oldest machine; its' a P2 400MHz so not exactly fast, but Lucid is really really crawling on it - even things like scrolling a terminal; recent Debian was OK speed wise
<danfish> I think it might be kinder to put that processor out to pasture...
<Andres-kain> second break of the day! yay!
<AlanBell> I just crashed out with the OOM killer
<AlanBell> and I only put an extra 5GB of ram in my laptop a couple of days ago
<bigcalm> oom?
<AlanBell> out of memory
<bigcalm> Ah
<AlanBell> there is a process that goes round killing things if you run out of memory
<bigcalm> Sounds like fun
<AlanBell> should I update my laptop to Oneiric now I wonder
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: why not
<penguin42> if you've just put more ram in and it's doing odd things, it might be a good idea to run a few hours of ram test 1st
<AlanBell> penguin42: interesting point, but it was an out of memory error rather than random crash
<DJones>  past
<DJones> Is Oneric at RC stage yet? Looking at the release schedule, it just says "pre release images" rather than RC as in the past
<AlanBell> monday will be candidate builds
<Joeb454> AlanBell: what were you running to get OOM?
<AlanBell> nothing much, firefox few other bits and bobs, maybe a gimp and inkscape doing nothing
<AlanBell> something leaked no doubt
<AlanBell> looks like it was thunderbird
<Joeb454> sounds like it. I think the only time I've ever come close to hitting even 4Gb is running a VM
<Joeb454> nice
<AlanBell> yeah, I can see in the kern.log thunderbird-bin was using 3.5GB then 4GB and the OOM killer went round killing everything else and letting thunderbird just grow
<Joeb454> don't you love it when things 'just work' ;)
<AlanBell> OOM killer doesn't like killing things that use the disk apparently
<Joeb454> actually that does make sense, because you'd risk having corrupt files if you killed something mid write
<AlanBell> makes sense, up to a point
<Joeb454> up to the point over 3GB RAM is being used by 1 process?
<popey> oi gord! why is my machine coming up in unity2d?
<popey> intel sandybridge
<matti> :)
<popey> (same machine different install gives 3d unity)
<penguin42> popey: What's difference between the installs?
<gord> popey, maybe packagng broke in upgrade/install? i don't know much about that kind of thing, see what unity --reset does though
<DJones> !mn Matthew Reilly - Hover Car Racer (epub).rar
<lubotu3> DJones: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<MartijnVdS> DJones: uhrm...
<DJones> Erk
<popey> bah
<popey> gord: nope, unity --reset doesnt fix it
<penguin42> popey: Check /var/log/Xorg.0.log for errors?
<popey> penguin42: one is upgrade, one is clean install
<popey> no errors
<popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/704543/
<penguin42> (EE) Failed to initialize GLX extension (Compatible NVIDIA X driver not found)
<penguin42> popey: This a machine which had an NVidia driver at one point?
<popey> ooh, good call!
<popey> duh!
<popey> sorry :D
<popey> disk was yanked from a machine with nvidia, forgot that
<gord> oh dear ;)
<penguin42> popey: Use jocket to uninstall the nvidia driver properly
<penguin42> jockey even
<penguin42> it's a pity the nvidia install screws stuff up so badly that the existing drivers don't work for other stuff
<MartijnVdS> Hmm.. have to get up early tomorrow
<MartijnVdS> F1 at 6am
<hamitron> MartijnVdS, nvm that, 2:40pm the replay?
<hamitron> ;/
<MartijnVdS> replays aren't as much fun
 * MartijnVdS is considering buying tickets for Spa next year
<hamitron> well, I shall for sure have to isolate myself from the world
<hamitron> nice
<MartijnVdS> Just the cheap ones ("bronze"?).. but I've never been to a race before
<hamitron> I think this will be my last year of watching F1
<MartijnVdS> hamitron: With the whole sky deal? I can imagine
<hamitron> if half the races are on Sky, will be watching something like British Touring Car
<popey> penguin42: i suspect it's because i had an xorg.conf
<popey> which i shouldnt have had
<hamitron> I prefer the classic type of race tracks, to all these foreign fancy rubbish things
<hamitron> gravel trap is sooooooooooo much better than pink paint
<hamitron> ;/
<hamitron> green grass is nice too
<hamitron> real grass ofc
<hamitron> MartijnVdS, I've been watching some Formula 3 recently
 * phillw hiyas guys... any ideas as to why I get this?...  You are not allowed to post to this mailing list, and your message has been automatically rejected. Â If you think that your messages are being rejected in error, contact the mailing list owner at ubuntu-uk-owner@lists.ubuntu.com.
<phillw> maybe lp has fallen out with google educational accounts, that would be fun :P
<AlanBell> it isn't launchpad, it is mailman
<AlanBell> and no, you are not intentionally banned from the list :)
<phillw> AlanBell: trying to set up the google educational email system is a nightmare enough, without you guys bouncing it :P
<phillw> At present, it has gone on strike with itself :).... Ah, well, the more people report bugs, the better chance we have of them being fixed.
<AlanBell> I am not one of the admins, popey or Daviey might be able to explain what is going on
<phillw> AlanBell: I saw you stood down from council... Why?
<AlanBell> I didn't stand down from anything??
 * phillw is sure you were you on old member old ubuntu council?
<AlanBell> popey (Alan Pope) will be standing down from the community council
<phillw> ah, I was close... alan :P
<DJones> AlanBell: Did you update your laptop to Oneiric? Just debating whether to do the same on mine
<phillw> DJones: we are at RC stage, update if you wish... Just ensure you have a backup :)
<AlanBell> DJones: doing a bit of a backup still
<DJones> phillw: I understand that, this will be the latest I've updated for quite a few releases
<DJones> LiveUSB works fine anyway
<constrictor> tried it a few weeks ago, the xfce variation that is. Not a bit unity fan
<constrictor> had to fall back to 11.04, I got an upgrade and got stuck in a loop during boot up
 * AlanBell wonders if a class 10 SD card is faster than a CD
<Adriannom> lo.  how do i edit a grub2 menu item permanently?  /etc/grub.d/ right?
<brobostigon> !grub2
<lubotu3> GRUB2 is the default Ubuntu boot manager since 9.10 (Karmic). Lost GRUB after installing Windows? See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RestoreGrub - For more information and troubleshooting for GRUB2 please refer to https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Grub2 - See !grub1 for releases before Karmic (9.10)
<brobostigon> Adriannom: the latter page discribes it in good detail.
<Adriannom> that's what i've been reading
<Adriannom> but it seems like editing the menu is more like programming
<Adriannom> i need to remove the option about gfx payload
<Adriannom> and it doesn't seem obvious which lines need to be commented or changed
<Adriannom> i basically can't boot into ubuntu (or even the console) unless i remove that option in grub every boot
<hamitron> if it was obvious and easy, it would not be so rewarding
<hamitron> ;)
<Adriannom> hehe yeah, lovely.  however i want to use ubuntu, not fix it ;)
<brobostigon> Adriannom: most likely in /etc/default/grub i reckon.
<Adriannom> brobostigon, looked there, nothing.  i'm pretty sure it's in /etc/grub.d/10_linux - which is just a whole bunch of code and i have no idea how to fix it
<brobostigon> Adriannom: me neither. sorry, i am just going by what is in that page.
<Adriannom> aye, it's all changed from grub1, editing menus is now an epic undertaking ;(
<Adriannom> actually screw this, i'm not spending any more time on 11.04.  back to 10.04 so i can actually get some work done
<Adriannom> thanks brobostigon
<brobostigon> ok, sorry.
<Adriannom> no worries :)
<Myrtti> â¥ UK
 * AlanBell is on oneiric on a live USB
<hamitron> AlanBell, going well?
 * hamitron is looking forward to 12.04
<AlanBell> good so far
<AlanBell> ali1234: what was that dual screen close on the wrong screen bug number?
<ali1234> bug 865701
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 865701 in unity (Ubuntu) "Maximized windows can be accidentally closed from wrong monitor." [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/865701
 * AlanBell clicks the me too bit
<AlanBell> all seems to be working fine really
<DJones> AlanBell: About another 150 packages to download on my upgrade
<GirlyGirl> DJones: Upgrading to oneric?
<AlanBell> reasonably happy with oneiric on a live USB
<AlanBell> compizconfig-settings-manager seemed to fail to do anything at all, but I think it should on a real install
 * AlanBell runs do-release-upgrade
<AlanBell> You have to download a total of 1675 M. This download should take
<AlanBell> about 11 minutes with your connection.
<AlanBell> nice :)
<dwatkins> Myrtti: what's your username on SpiderOak, please? I'm being asked it to add the referral bonus to our accounts. ta.
<Joeb454> AlanBell: 11 minutes? At one point while downloading the GM release of iOS 5 earlier I still had 17 minutes to wait
<Joeb454> worth keeping in mind I'd already got about 300/720 MB at this point
<GirlyGirl> AlanBell: Upgrade done then?
<AlanBell> installing packages
<AlanBell> could take quite a while
<AlanBell> it has disconnected from wifi
<GirlyGirl> Bye
<Myrtti> dwatkins: Myrtti, obviously :-P
 * bigcalm ponders drunk purchasing
<Joeb454> bigcalm: if you have to ponder it's usually a bad idea :P
<bigcalm> Nothing in mind, just terribly bored
<bigcalm> Maybe an SSD for my laptop
<Joeb454> ah, that kind of drunk purchasing
<bigcalm> Or for the revo
<Joeb454> I'm good at that
<Joeb454> I want an SSD for my laptop, but A) can't afford it, and B) the sizes are still too small
<bigcalm> I have one in my workstation
<bigcalm> Improved it no end
<andres-kain> wow, tomboy has a bit too much dependancies for my taste...
<bigcalm> 50% used of 60gb device. Pleasing
<andres-kain> mono this, mono that...
 * bigcalm ponts andres-kain at directhex :)
<andres-kain> whatÅ that?
<bigcalm> What's directhex?
<andres-kain> yeah.
<bigcalm> A user in this channel :)
<Laney> who can magically reduce dependency requirements?
<bigcalm> I'm bored and easily amused :)
<AlanBell> still upgrading ...
<andres-kain> OK, tomboy syncing... do any of you use irc in pidgin?
<andres-kain> what is the addon name?
<andres-kain> I only really want to connect to ubuntu-uk and maybe one other channel
<andres-kain> so xchat seems overkill for me.
<dwatkins> Myrtti: thanks, I suspected that might be your login name :)
<hamitron> andres-kain, didn't realise you needed an addon
<andres-kain> hamitron you are probably right. I am sure I just do not know how to use irc
<andres-kain> I think i just registered my nick.
<hamitron> :)
<andres-kain> yep there I am.
<andres-kain> i am an idiot.
<andres-kain> OK, no need for xchat now.
<hamitron> :))
<dwatkins> who needs xchat? ;) <--- irssi user
<hamitron> I actually like xchat
<hamitron> :/
<directhex> andres-kain1: counterintuitively, the increased *number* of tomboy dependencies in oneiric is paired with decreased *size* of dependencies
<directhex> andres-kain1: there's 1 package per library, rather than bundling libraries together - so there are zero unneeded dependencies, ever
<directhex> andres-kain1: the package names are also longer than they used to be. libmono-system-runtime-serialization-formatters-soap4.0-cil doesn't exactly roll off the tongue.
<andres-kain1> dwatkins hamitron now i have google, facebook, twitter, identi.ca and #ubuntu-uk all in one place. Gwibber can keep facebook posts only. it was slowing down
<directhex> which used to be libmono-system-runtime2.0-cil in natty
<andres-kain1> directhex would the same thing happen in xubuntu?
<dwatkins> andres-kain1: in irssi, xchat or something else?
<directhex> yes. it's a change in mono packaging between natty and oneiric
<DJones> Hmmh, screen resolution on oneiric seems to be low, even though its reporting 1600*900
<andres-kain1> dwatkins pidgin i think is the answer
<andres-kain1> I just wanted something that would sync my conboy notes on my n900 with my netbook.
<andres-kain1> via ubuntu one
<andres-kain1> seems like tomboy is the only option.
<dwatkins> I'm not familiar with conboy.
<dwatkins> ah I see, sync tomboy notes
<directhex> gnote still has no u1 support afaik
<andres-kain1> yeah gnote was my first option. I dont think gnote will ever have support for u1.
<directhex> it just needs someone who cares to write the support. but nobody cares.
<andres-kain1> really? I thought it was a licence thing...
<andres-kain1> in a completely unrelated note. I have the board game of world of warcraft in spanish. Is anybody interested?
<andres-kain1> no takers? wow, no one for wow? well maybe in freecycle.
<andres-kain1> what about a ps2 with around 10 games, memory card two controllers and eyetoy?
<DJones> Is there a volumes_visible setting for Nautilus on Oneiric?
<andres-kain1> what is ibus for? i keep thinking it will configure my keyboard seems like an advanced tool for something.
<bigcalm> Why doesn't get_iplayer see everything that the website does?
<andres-kain1> what are you missing?
<andres-kain1> I usually have all I want with it.
<bigcalm> Newsjack, Mark Thomas: The Manifesto
<bigcalm> For example
<bigcalm> Both are radio programmes
<andres-kain1> do other radio programs work?
<bigcalm> Yes
<bigcalm> Currently listening to "So Wrong it's Right"
<andres-kain1> sorry cannot help you there. I just used it for torchwood and dr who, and gpodder for radio podcasts (material world)
<andres-kain1> bigcalm have you tried http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/install
<andres-kain1> desktop client from bbc
<bigcalm> I like keeping things for longer :)
<andres-kain1> ah.
<penguin42> hmm reason why the slow machine is slow is because PA is battering the heck out of it spewing stuff to its log
 * andres-kain scratches head
#ubuntu-uk 2011-10-09
 * andres-kain smiles
<andres-kain> \o/ finally learnt a bit of irc
<andres-kain> good night!
<MartijnVdS> 20 minutes to F1
<MartijnVdS> well 22
<daftykins> you're awake early to see it? :)
<GirlyGirl> Morning
<AlanBell> morning
<AlanBell> my upgrade is still going
<AlanBell> got stuck on a modified config file
<AlanBell> restart tme!
<AlanBell> not good :(
<AlanBell> lets try unity 2d
<AlanBell> ok, that mostly works
<AlanBell> compiz was having issues getting started with unity3d
<AlanBell> I got the nautilus desktop but no unity
<AlanBell> http://paste.ubuntu.com/704769/
<AlanBell> yay, fixed it
<AlanBell> in ccsm enabled unity and turned off some conflicting keybinding options
<czajkowski> Aloha
<AlanBell> morning czajkowski
<czajkowski> AlanBell: hows things
<AlanBell> fine, nice quiet house and I have upgraded to Oneiric
<czajkowski> :)
<AlanBell> how is London this morning?
<czajkowski> not raining
<AlanBell> this is building up :) http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-uk/1283/detail/
<czajkowski> aye poked jono last night to mail internally as they all are there this week
<czajkowski> so no reason not to use the sign up really
<czajkowski> and give people an idea of numbers
<AlanBell> yus
<knightwise> morning
<GirlyGirl> AlanBell: How did the upgrade go?
<knightwise> hey GirlyGirl AlanBell
<knightwise> morning
<GirlyGirl> knightwise: Morning
<AlanBell> GirlyGirl: I am upgraded
<AlanBell> unity3d failed a bit
<GirlyGirl> AlanBell: What are the changes to unity .. how do you find it
<AlanBell> gord: unity --reset doesn't seem to resolve conflicts in compiz
<AlanBell> GirlyGirl: it is OK, I can launch applications and navigate between them
<AlanBell> the apps lens is a pile of fail for not grouping stuff by category, but I wrote my own lens to do that
<AlanBell> at least it is now offering me slightly relevant apps for download when I filter by category
<brobostigon> morning everyone.
<AlanBell> thunderbird has prettier buttons
<Lcawte> Thunderbird needs microsoft exchange support... I have wubi on my sisters PC and tried the 11.04 mail app, and was suprised that I could get my school emails at home...
<StevenR> Lcawte: there are some plugins or exchange for TB
<Lcawte> Really? Oh cool, haven't been able to find them though..
<AlanBell> banshee just triggered a thermal shutdown
<MartijnVdS> cool
 * AlanBell gives up listening to music for another year
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: it likes to go into <number of cpus> * 100% CPU eating loop if you apt-get upgrade while it's running
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: Laney and I filed a bug about that
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=659841
<AlanBell> I clicked a track in the music lens and it did it
<lubotu3> Gnome bug 659841 in general "Hang when GConf can't be called(?)" [Major,Unconfirmed]
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: Clicking on banshee (or trying to control it some other way) after a (dist-)upgrade tirggers it for me
<Laney> it is a gconf problem
<MartijnVdS> Laney: yeah I saw the link at the bottom -- its SIGHUP handler is broken or something?
<Laney> pretty much
<gordonjcp> heh
<gordonjcp> tbh I still can't see past audacious for music playing
<gordonjcp> start it up, click on a directory with some audio files, click play
<gordonjcp> sound comes out
 * StevenR uses mpd
<knightwise> hey everyone =)
<knightwise> hey s1m0nsk1
<s1m0nsk1> hey knightwise
<s1m0nsk1> quiet in here, isn't it?
<gordonjcp> s1m0nsk1: sunday lunchtime, eh
<kvarley> the time/calendar applet has vanished from the indicator area, how can I restart it?
<gordonjcp> the installer doesn't really tell you much about what's going on, does it?
<gordonjcp> it's been saying "Downloading packages (<some time> remaining)" for about ten minutes now
<gordonjcp> every so often the time jumps up by a couple of minutes, presumably as it works out it needs something else
<gordonjcp> if it does it again, I'm cancelling this install and sticking Arch on
<gordonjcp> clicking on the expander arrow reveals a black textbox with a cursor
<AlanBell> gordonjcp: it is even less informative if you are using orca, it reads out stuff like "234% complete . . ."
<gordonjcp> AlanBell: heh
<AlanBell> after the upgrade my firefox search engines have mostly gone awol
<AlanBell> only one remaining is ask.com
<gordonjcp> the colours are horrible
<AlanBell> colours in the installer or default theme or what?
<gordonjcp> default theme
<gordonjcp> purple, yellow, green and brownish-grey
<gordonjcp> looks like my monitor has septicaemia
<gordonjcp> the new fonts are cool
<AlanBell> colours are somewhat distinctive, yes
<AlanBell> I would like more dramatic changes each release
<gordonjcp> I quite liked the orangey-brown scheme
<AlanBell> I am fine with the aubergine/orange, just think the default wallpaper should have been the one with the yellow ocelot on it
<gordonjcp> that Mac Menu thing is annoying
<AlanBell> yeah, it is
<AlanBell> they half fixed it for dual monitors
<gordonjcp> how do you get rid of it?
<penguin42> hmm that ocelot almost looks like it's origami
<AlanBell> there are some things that are good to copy from the mac
<gordonjcp> AlanBell: RoundRects Are Everywhere
<gordonjcp> but other than that, not very much...
<AlanBell> gordonjcp: I am living wtih the global menu for a week or two, apparently it grows on you
<gordonjcp> AlanBell: well, it's the thing that utterly prevents me from using Macs
<penguin42> it does save screen real estate which is good
<penguin42> but with sloppy focus it's a bit of a pita
<gordonjcp> "oh, I need something from the menu"
<gordonjcp> <CRASH>
<gordonjcp> concentration gone
<AlanBell> Bug #764905 is a great example of copying a mac where you shouldn't
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 764905 in Ayatana Design "Drag and drop a USB key into the trash should eject the USB key" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/764905
<gordonjcp> AlanBell: that never made sense, even on the Mac
<gordonjcp> even the guy that designed it said it didn't make sense, it just ended up that way because people got used to doing it
<Monsterwizard> sunday roast...anyone?
<gordonjcp> Monsterwizard: I'm thinking pub lunch actually
<AlanBell> Monsterwizard: duck here :)
 * penguin42 just had breakfast
<Monsterwizard> fish here???? :S
<Monsterwizard> up late penguin42?
<penguin42> Monsterwizard: I always do odd times at the weekend
<Monsterwizard> fair deal
<gordonjcp> AlanBell: I may go back to trying global menu, but I want to stage my changes
<gordonjcp> AlanBell: the unity desktop is a lot to get used to
<Monsterwizard> What cool things can I do with Ubuntu in a virtual box?
<gordonjcp> I still haven't figured out how to get windows to show up without closing whatever is on top of them
<DJones> AlanBell: Do you have any issues with brightness on boot? My brightness is at the lowest point at boot & I have to manually adjust brightness to get a usable screen every time, it doesn't save the updated setting
<AlanBell> DJones: I have not noticed any issue with that
<gordonjcp> how do you fix the close/minimise/maximise button at the top of the window?
<ali1234> what's the bug for when the launcher doesn't pop out?
<MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: "fix" how?
<gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: they're on the wrong side
<MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: no they're not. You windows-user you :)
<ali1234> gordonjcp: install human-theme and use it
<gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: what?
<penguin42> brightness bugs are very often specific bios/hardware issues
<AlanBell> ah, now that you do get used to!
<gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: I haven't used Windows, I wouldn't know
<DJones> AlanBell: Odd, the other thing I've noticed is that the terminal window font can't be changed on a permanent basis, each time it defaults to larger than I want & the setting doesn't stay fixed
<gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: every other GUI I have used has them on the right side
<gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: well, except NeXTSTEP which sort of did its own thing there
<gordonjcp> but still had a close button on the right
<AlanBell> DJones: my laptop key for changing brightnes does all or nothing, just a fast fade from one extreme to the other
 * MartijnVdS never uses the buttons anyway
<MartijnVdS> Ctrl+W :)
<gordonjcp> DJones: yeah, the terminal font is huge
<gordonjcp> AlanBell: I'm not really interested in "getting used to it"
<ali1234> you never get used to it, trust me
<ali1234> i've been using unity for 6 months, and i still haven't got used to it
<gordonjcp> none of my other machines have got it like that, I don't want it on this one
<ali1234> anyway i already told you how to fix it...
<ali1234> you can't fix it for maximized windows though
<AlanBell> sudo apt-get remove appmenu-gtk indicator-applet-appmenu indicator-appmenu
<penguin42> gordonjcp: I have my terminal font sensible and it seems to be remembering it
<AlanBell> ^^ breaks the global menu
<gordonjcp> penguin42: I haven't tried adjusting it
<Monsterwizard> is virtual bbox the best virtual machine?
<AlanBell> Monsterwizard: it is a decent desktop virtual machine tool
<penguin42> gordonjcp: I think there may have been a recent change in how X tries to guess the size/dpi of the monitor which changes some font sizes - I think it's given up believing what the monitor sometimes told it
<gordonjcp> penguin42: heh
<gordonjcp> I take it banshee is the new, improved rhythmbox?
<AlanBell> no, banshee is the new rhythmbox
<gordonjcp> oh :-/
<gordonjcp> well it actually starts and runs, which is an improvement over rhythmbox any time I've tried it in the past couple of years
<AlanBell> well, I dunno really I am hardly an expert on music things
 * penguin42 pats Exaile
<AndroUser> re all
<AlanBell> hi AndroUser
<pr0ph3t> sorry
<pr0ph3t> it's just me
<Monsterwizard> this is outragous
<Monsterwizard> there's not IMAP for hotmail
<pr0ph3t> I was wondering what do you use for vnc connections on the server side, I use Android vnc and I thought of using X11VNC server
<jacobw> i don't think there's POP for hotmail either..
<penguin42> x11vnc is for sharing existing desktop as I remember
<pr0ph3t> there's POP3 Yes
<gordonjcp> right, gnome-terminal is using the system fixed width font
<Monsterwizard> :O Pop is useless,
<pr0ph3t> get a Google account, or yahoo
<gordonjcp> is there a way to change the fonts? IIRC it used to be in "appearance" in the settings but that's just got wallpaper stuff
<pr0ph3t> you can get IMAP with those
<pr0ph3t> so going back to my question, do you use ssh access instead to control the box from remote?
<ali1234> yes, of course
<jacobw> !ssh
<lubotu3> SSH is the Secure SHell protocol, see: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SSH for client usage. PuTTY is an SSH client for Windows; see: http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/putty/ for it's homepage. See also !scp (Secure CoPy) and !sshd (Secure SHell Daemon)
<jacobw> !sshd
<lubotu3> SSH is the Secure SHell protocol, sshd is the server (or daemon) of SSH. For setting up the SSH server, please see: https://help.ubuntu.com/10.04/serverguide/C/openssh-server.html . Advanced SSH uses: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SSH/OpenSSH/Advanced . For SSH client information, see !ssh . Related: !scp (Secure CoPy)
<gordonjcp> if I've got two terminals open, then clicking the box on the left side makes them both appear and whoosh about the screen
<gordonjcp> how do I get them both to show up in the sidebar?
<pr0ph3t> thanks jacobw
<ali1234> you can't
<ali1234> you can't do any of this stuff with unity
<gordonjcp> :-/
<gordonjcp> that is rapidly approaching dealbreaker-levels of annoying
<ali1234> how did you possible only just notice this?
<gordonjcp> ali1234: it's the first time I've used Ubuntu for about a year
<pr0ph3t> so if setup properly ssh is much more secure than vnc, or is it just more powerful, i.e. gives you more control?
<gordonjcp> and I didn't really use it much before that
<gordonjcp> ali1234: well, not since the last LTS but one ;-)
<ali1234> pr0ph3t: both, yes
<gordonjcp> ali1234: the windows-whooshing-about thing is really irritating
<gordonjcp> if I wanted to play Duck Hunt, I'd play Duck Hunt
<ali1234> yes i know, it's rubbish
<jacobw> different instances of the same program don't even number differently if you hold <super>
<ali1234> it wouldn't be any where near as bad if they stayed in the same place each time, but they don't
<gordonjcp> well, I'll give it another 20 minutes
<gordonjcp> that'll be me having used it for an hour
<gordonjcp> I think it's wipe and reinstall time though, this is bordering on unusable
<jacobw> what did you use previously?
<gordonjcp> XFCE4 on Arch
<gordonjcp> I could probably just install xubuntu but that rather defeats the purpose of installing Ubuntu at all
<ali1234> it would also be much less annoying if it didn't show every terminal window from every desktop, but again, it doesn't
<gordonjcp> there is no way in hell I could ever explain how to use this to my Mum
<gordonjcp> that's generally my basic criterion for working out what I'm going to install on computers for people
<ali1234> i just ask them what they want
<gordonjcp> ali1234: most people want "the Internet"
<gordonjcp> which is why the iPad and various Android tablets are taking over from desktops
<gordonjcp> but that's a whole 'nother can of worms
<ali1234> yeah well if they say that i just tell them to buy a mac
<gordonjcp> I don't really see the point in Macs unless you need Final Cut Pro
<gordonjcp> you're paying over the odds for a cheap crappy Intel PC
<jacobw> 'normal' people don't try to switch between terminal windows very often ;)
<gordonjcp> in a cheap crappy case
<gordonjcp> with an ugly and hard-to-use OS
<ali1234> yeah well that's not my problem
 * jacobw also doesn't find macs easy to use
<gordonjcp> jacobw: I don't, mostly because the dock is incomprehensible to me and I find having the menu bar at the top of the screen incredibly distracting
<gordonjcp> jacobw: it was fine in like System 7 when it was single-tasking to begin with ;-)
<KrimZon> I don't like the application-oriented workspace-ignoring grouping of the dock
<AlanBell> gordonjcp: you can middle click things in the launcher to create new instances of them, like terminal windows
<ali1234> but there is no reasonable way to switch between them after you have done that
<AlanBell> no, not if you like workspaces
<ali1234> whether you use them or not
<ali1234> also unity now gets slower and slower the longer you use it
<AlanBell> don't see why they are not listed in the right click menu of the launcher
<ali1234> anyone else had windows get stuck?
<ali1234> where you drag the window... and it just doesn't move at all?
<AlanBell> yes, I had some windows get non-draggable earlier
<ali1234> it's really annoying
<ali1234> also the expose is showing white rectangles instead of the window contents
<MartijnVdS> alt+drag tends to always work for me
<AlanBell> thought it was because I was messing with ccsm at the time
<ali1234> basically unity is now more buggy than it was in natty
<ali1234> and not even any attempt to fix any of the design flaws
<jacobw> does anyone own an x220?
<gordonjcp> this is really slow, too
<gordonjcp> at least they've toned down the eyewatering drop shadows from natty
<ali1234> they still show up in screenshots like they did before though
<gordonjcp> hm, no UPNP in banshee, but it *does* have DAAP?
<gordonjcp> weird
<ali1234> it has upnp as well
<AlanBell> I miss the big shadows :)
<ali1234> look for dlna or something
<gordonjcp> yeah, I was
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: only in alpha right?
<ali1234> what is only in alpha?
<MartijnVdS> UPNP+Banshee?
<AlanBell> I do think unity is better than it used to be
<MartijnVdS> I type too fast for alt+F2
<gordonjcp> hm
<ali1234> unity design hasn't changed since natty
<ali1234> some bugs have been fixed
<gordonjcp> ah, okay
<ali1234> like the displayed maximized windows
<ali1234> but there are a whole load of new ones that are just as bad/worse
<gordonjcp> Banshee apparently doesn't support UPNP according to a mailing list posting from June
<ali1234> weird, i'm sure i have seen a dlna plugin for it
<ali1234> maybe i imagined it
<gordonjcp> so I need to use a non-standard and patent-encumbered DAAP server to play music on my Ubuntu system ;-)
<ali1234> banshee sucks anyway
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: it's a GSoC'11 item
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: http://topfs2.wordpress.com/2011/04/29/gsoc-2011-banshee-upnp-serverclient-integration/
<ali1234> slowest audio player i've ever used
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: maybe you remembered that bit
<ali1234> no i probably remembered it from rhythmbox
<MartijnVdS> yay coherence. Makes rb as stable as banshee
<ali1234> i've never seen a upnp system that works properly anyway
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: My Synology NAS + my PS3 and TV work fine together
<ali1234> and besides, if you want to stream music on ubuntu, you are supposed to buy a ubuntu one account
<ali1234> can't have anything interfering with the revenue stream now can we?
<MartijnVdS> cynical much?
<gordonjcp> this all reminds me of the dashboard on the Berlingos at work
<ali1234> go ask any upnp developer about how much workarounds they need to make ps3 work
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: sure
<jacobw> gordonjcp: citroen?
<gordonjcp> ye
<gordonjcp> five firmware updates later, and you can control the MP3 player from the GPS screen, the steering wheel buttons, the display softkeys or the front of the stereo
<ali1234> basically any device that does not sell as much as the ps3 needs just as many workarounds, but doesn't get them because there is no interest
<gordonjcp> but you still cannot tell it that you want to avoid motorways
<gordonjcp> and you can't disable the reversing beeper any more
<gordonjcp> what's especially annoying is three updates ago you could have it automatically not beep in reverse depending on what time it was
<gordonjcp> I want an open-source car
<MartijnVdS> so don't get the firmware updates?
<ali1234> just buy a car from 1993
<ali1234> no computer control
<gordonjcp> ali1234: I have a car from 1988, and a car from 1981
<ali1234> well, there you go then
<gordonjcp> the only electronic thing in the one from 1981 is the clock on the dashboard, and I know it doesn't work
 * MartijnVdS has one from '02
<gordonjcp> (actually, the clock in the '88 one is broken too)
<ali1234> great, you can no longer use human theme because it's gtk2
<ali1234> so where can i get a theme for gtk3 that is actually good?
<ali1234> ah, gnome-themes-standard
<ali1234> which installs only 1 theme
<ali1234> hmm
<ali1234> you now have to log out and log in again to make the window decoration update
<ali1234> not that you'd ever want to change it since there are no good themes for gtk3
<ali1234> all i want is a theme where the focussed window title bar is a different colour
<gordonjcp> all I want is for music playback to work in Ubuntu, but I'm not there yet
<gordonjcp> oh, sod it, I'll just use sshfs
<gordonjcp> this is just ridiculous, banshee doesn't do upnp, *nothing* does DAAP apart from banshee
<ali1234> there is no way to maximize a window on the second monitor with gnome-shell. genius
<X3N> gordonjcp: totem, rythmbox and media-explorer all do upnp
<X3N> ali1234: double click the title bar
<X3N> or drag to the top of the screen
<ali1234> not only that but multiple workspaces don't affect the second monitor
<ali1234> so any window on the second monitor is always on the screen
<X3N> yep, one of my favourite features
<gordonjcp> X3N: weirdly enough, disabling daap and re-enabling it in banshee has brought it to life
<ali1234> lets see how well it handles full screen apps
<ali1234> i notice the gnome-shell makes it even harder than unity to open two terminal windows on at the same time
<X3N> "open new window" ?
<ali1234> where is that?
<X3N> right click on the icon
<X3N> or middle click to open new window on new workspace
<AlanBell> friend brought round a broken windows laptop, now installing oneiric on it :)
<AlanBell> one way or another they won't come back with it
<ali1234> lol
<ali1234> "worst computer repair ever, would not use again"
<AlanBell> or, yay, my laptop just works
<AlanBell> one or the other :)
<AlanBell> it was an ebay purchase apparently
<AlanBell> old tecra with 256MB ram and a celeron processor (now has 1GB from my box of bits)
<ali1234> looooool
<ali1234> ubuntu will not run well on that
<AlanBell> better than a second hand windows
<AlanBell> live CD works ok
<ali1234> it won't run better than XP on that
<ali1234> it will probably run significantly worse
<ali1234> booting up to a desktop doesn't say much
<AlanBell> it has a broken XP on it, which hasn't run since purchase
<ali1234> so it has all the old owners files on it?
<AlanBell> yeah, and their malware no doubt
<ali1234> yeah
<ali1234> just wipe it and restore windows
<ali1234> nothing else is gonna work on a machine that old
<AlanBell> don't have windows restore disks
<ali1234> you don't need them
<ali1234> if it isn't on the HD just get them from MSDN
<AlanBell> don't have MSDN
<AlanBell> and don't really want windows
<Monsterwizard> how come?
<Monsterwizard> windows is ok
<AlanBell> it might come back!
<gordonjcp> stick Haiku on it
<Monsterwizard> Windows is the misunderstood OS
<ali1234> put gnu hurd on it
<AlanBell> I don't support windows
<ali1234> i guarantee it wont come back
<AlanBell> ali1234: I want it to at least *leave*
<ali1234> i will support windows if the price right
<ali1234> but only until it leaves my possesion
<ali1234> if it comes back it's wipe time
<ali1234> billable hours \o/
<ali1234> gnome-shell notifications pop up ad disappear as soon as you press a key
<AlanBell> "friend of wife" is not a billable customer
<ali1234> annoying if one pops up while you are typing
<gordonjcp> thunderbird totally fails to work
<ali1234> thunderbird is rubbish
<gordonjcp> well yeah
<ali1234> it's still better than evolution though
<gordonjcp> tbh it was a bad choice including it
<ali1234> well what else are they going to do? "sorry, there is no good email client on linux"
<gordonjcp> well evolution has had a bug with HTML email that has made it unusable for about five years
<ali1234> evolution just crashes every time i try to use it
<gordonjcp> receive an HTML email, try to reply to it as non-HTML, get all sorts of crazy formatting
<ali1234> sometimes it doesn't even crash. sometimes it doesn't even respond to any input at all
<gordonjcp> something that was as usable and functional as Eudora about ten years ago would be nice
<AlanBell> I use thunderbird as my main email client
<AlanBell> lack of exchange support is either a dealbreaker for some people, or of no relevance whatsoever to everyone else
<ali1234> wow even the gnome fallback is terrible now
<ali1234> why is the clock in the middle of the panel?
<ali1234> and why is the panel so ugly?
<jacobw> ali1234 in wonderland :P
<ali1234> lol notifications are messed up as well
<ali1234> well i guess linux no longer has a usable desktop enviroment
<AlanBell> people have put a lot of time and effort into breaking that stuff
<ali1234> no doubt in gnome 3.4 they will claim that they are removing it because "nobody uses it"
<ali1234> which will be true
<AlanBell> probably
<ali1234> nobody will wnt to use this because it is completely crippled
<ali1234> does xfce use gtk3 now?
<ali1234> the quality of free software was much higher when developers were writing it just for themselves
<AlanBell> unity with a sane lens for launching applications and more predictable window management would be just fine
<ali1234> instead of some imagined, half-retarded "normal user"
<AlanBell> now they write it for people who think dragging a USB device to the rubbish bin should "eject" it
<ali1234> hah
<ali1234> if it were up to me,dragging a usb device to the rubbish bin would permanently brick it
<AlanBell> when they get people in for user experience testing you would think they would allow them to sober up first
<ali1234> right time to try xfce
<AlanBell> how are you planning to do that?
<gordonjcp> is there a way to make a specific terminal (or any other window, really) have a separate square on the strip at the side?
<ali1234> oh dear
<ali1234> is it really so hard to pick the right font size?
<AlanBell> gordonjcp: I don't think so, I think gord did the stacking logic
<ali1234> any idea what DPI i have to use to make this ubuntu font not look dirty? 96, hinting slight?
<ali1234> what font size does gnome use?
<AlanBell> I set my terminal to Ubuntu Mono 10
<ali1234> ugh, this is total fail
<ali1234> 10 pt font is about 3 millimeters high in xfce
<ali1234> even when i force dpi it is still significantly small than it is under gnome
<ali1234> and of course only about 50% of the programs in xfce actually honour the font size
<ali1234> so everything looks like a mess if you change it from the default
<ali1234> if i wanted this i would use KDE
<ali1234> haha xfce has a theme called "ambiance" that looks nothing like the ubuntu one
<ali1234> and also, i can tell it is using gtk3 because all the programs have a blank square in the bottom right where the resizer thing should be
<penguin42> ali1234: Ah that's happened for years; it's normally after you've done an update or a theme change
<ali1234> it has't happened for years
<ali1234> it only started happening when gtk3 introduced the mandatory resizer
<penguin42> fine, it's happened to me for years
<ali1234> then you have been using gnome3 for years
<ali1234> xfce is the first desktop i;ve tried where it is possible to tell which window is focussed
<ali1234> so it has that going for it
<ali1234> pity about the font rendering
<ali1234> hey look at that, notify-osd doesn't respect font settings
<X3N> whining >> /dev/null
<ali1234> whining about whining ^
<ali1234> whining^2
<AlanBell> metawhining
<AlanBell> X3N: discussing issues discovered prior to filing informative bug reports
<ali1234> i've already reported all these bugs
<AlanBell> chances are that the reports already exist
<ali1234> i reported them when natty was released
 * AlanBell finds a problem with the grid snap thing and dual monitors
<AlanBell> if you try to do a half maximise on the edge between the two monitors it shows the yellow highlight where it is going to put it, then half maximises it on the other monitor
<ali1234> AlanBell: i reported that bug against natty during beta phase
<AlanBell> sometimes
<ali1234> grid plugin is so messed up it is unbelievable
<ali1234> supposedly it causes the no show launcher too
<ali1234> i suspect it causes the "1 pixel over the edge so i'm not going to show you that window" problem
<jacobw> cal lightman is using openoffice with bluecurve icons in lie to me :|
 * AlanBell tries to parse what jacobw said
<jacobw> i'm not sure if recognising icon sets in tv programmes is healthy :P
<Joeb454> probably not the healthiest of things, no
<Joeb454> but at least you have good eyesight and memory ;)
<AlanBell> "lie to me" is a TV programme? "cal lightman" is a character?
<jacobw> correct AlanBell
<AlanBell> parsing win \o/
<jacobw> :)
<ali1234> bah i give up
<ali1234> going back to unity
<ali1234> why is gnome the only system that can set fonts to a consistent size?
<ali1234> is libreoffice supposed to work with appmenu?
<stgraber> yes, if you install an additional package
<ali1234> which package?
<stgraber> lo-menubar
<ali1234> what other apps need a special package?
<ali1234> except for firefox
<stgraber> I think that's pretty much it for what's supported. gtk/qt already have it, firefox/thunderbird have an extension and libreoffice has a plugin (though that's the only one that's not installed by default for some reason)
<gordonjcp> what's really annoying is how if you've got music playing and something noisy pops up in firefox, you hear that too
<gordonjcp> also, the "online accounts" thing is a bit useless
<gordonjcp> it only supports google
<ali1234> it supports google?
<ali1234> what does it do if you add your google account?
<ali1234> how do i get rid of these damn scrollbars?
<gordonjcp> no idea, I couldn't give a toss about google
<gordonjcp> yahoo! messenger would be nice though
<ali1234> gnome-settings-daemon has started refusing to hand out themes. reboot time i think
<Joeb454> ali1234: gordonjcp it syncs contacts and calendars from Google, I believe, and Google Talk
<ali1234> syncs them with what?
<ali1234> i removed empathy and thunderbird
<gordonjcp> Joeb454: great, now how do I get Yahoo! messenger?
<Joeb454> your local contacts/calendar, afaik.
<Joeb454> gordonjcp: pass, I haven't used Yahoo messenger for years, sorry
<gordonjcp> Joeb454: I can't think of any combination of circumstances where I'd ever find syncing stuff with Google useful
<ali1234> lol yahoo
<ali1234> all the privacy concerns of google, except the services are worse
<gordonjcp> the only reason I have a Google account at all is because I have an Android phone, and when I get shot of that I'll get rid of google
 * penguin42 likes being able to get to his calendar, and bookmarks remotely
<ali1234> but how do i see my google calendar with this?
<ali1234> or email... or chat
<gordonjcp> okay, so the long and short of it is, Ubuntu 11.10 is broken
<ali1234> yeah
<ali1234> so was 11.04
<ali1234> this is not really news to anyone
<gordonjcp> it's like any other Linux, but it does less, and what it does manage to do, it does badly
<ali1234> well here's the thing
<ali1234> unity is better than KDE, and it is better than gnome3
<ali1234> and it shouldn't be necessary to even mention that it is better than all the half finished, 10 years out of date window managers
<ali1234> but i will anyway
<AlanBell> I think it is now at the point where 6 months work could make it really good for 12.04
<ali1234> because otherwise someone will suggest i switch to fluxbox or something
<ali1234> or windowmaker
<ali1234> or fvwm95
<gordonjcp> I give up
<ali1234> AlanBell: iow exactly where it was 6 months ago?
<KrimZon> I was trying the xubuntu beta
<gordonjcp> I want to send a link to someone who uses Yahoo! messenger, and there is literally no way to do it
<KrimZon> it's alright except seems to overheat my laptop more easily
<ali1234> gordonjcp: install pidgin
<ali1234> empathy is rubbish
<KrimZon> and I couldn't get it to connect by sftp to my server in the file manager
<KrimZon> which is important because I stream all my actual stuff from it
<gordonjcp> ali1234: there's already a thing that looks like it should be for chat stuff
<gordonjcp> why doesn't it work?
<ali1234> yes, it's called empathy, it's garbage, uninstall it
<ali1234> it doesn't work because the whole way it is architected is broken
<ali1234> empathy is a frontend for telepathy
<ali1234> telepathy was designed by nokia to use for messaging on mobile phones
<ali1234> telepathy is really good at that
<ali1234> empathy is a frontend that tries to make it into a general purpose instant messaging system, but completely fails
<ali1234> because it is designed by mac users who love adium
<shauno> I love adium :)
<ali1234> do you use it for irc?
<shauno> hell no
<shauno> I've never seen an IM make the transition to irc gracefully
<ali1234> pidgin handles irc as well as anyone could need
<ali1234> anyway i need to reboot
<ali1234> the session thingy is telling me i need to reboot to finish the upgrade that i didn't do
<ali1234> what ever happened to gimp single window mode?
<ali1234> gimp is unusable with unity :(
<ali1234> single window mode would work much better
<gordonjcp> ali1234: presumably the people working on it had a sudden flash of cluefulness and realised what a shockingly poor idea it would be
<ali1234> not really
<gordonjcp> since every mockup seems to be falling into the same trap as Photoshop
<gordonjcp> which is the most astoundingly retarded user interface in the world
<ali1234> i can't see a reason why i would want to put the toolbox on a different workspace than the image i'm working on
<ali1234> which is what always ends up happening
<ali1234> i suppose i could just run it inside xephyr
<gordonjcp> YO DAWG I put a window manager in your window so it looks like you've got a root window in your root window
<ali1234> but that breaks menus
<penguin42> gimp seems to run OK in it here
<penguin42> ali1234: What particular breakage ?
<ali1234> last time i tried to run anything in xephyr on ubuntu, it had no menu because there was nothing to receive the global menu nonsense
<ali1234> i reported a bug about it
<ali1234> bug 774586
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 774586 in appmenu-gtk (Ubuntu) "Applications have no menu when run in a nested X session" [Low,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/774586
<ali1234> yep, still happens
<ali1234> also xephyr is now incredibly slow for some reason
<ali1234> unsetting that var actually works
<ali1234> sadly it doesn't work in the main desktop
<ali1234> hmm maybe it does...
<ali1234> yeah, it does, as long as no windows from that app already open :)
<gordonjcp> well, I'm getting way more graphics corruption in Ubuntu than on Arch
<gordonjcp> http://askubuntu.com/questions/50966/screen-corruption-with-946g-82945g-gz <- pretty much this
<penguin42> gordonjcp: Which graphics card?
<gordonjcp> Intel 82945
<ali1234> who can explain what is going on here: http://paste.ubuntu.com/704953/
<penguin42> gordonjcp: Hmm I run with a 945gm here and it's OK - do you run multiple monitors ?
<gordonjcp> ali1234: you're still using the first ls it found
<gordonjcp> penguin42: nope
<ali1234> gordonjcp: see output of 'which ls'
<penguin42> ali1234: Try doing hash -r
<ali1234> nice
<ali1234> thanks :)
<penguin42> ali1234: It doesn't bother searching the path every time if it already knew where it was from last time
<ali1234> next question: why doesn't this work: http://paste.ubuntu.com/704956/
<ali1234> just running "/bin/sh gedit" does the same thing, ie nothing, it just hangs
<ali1234> probably better if i do this with the .desktop actually
<ali1234> hmm is synaptic supposed to have global menus?
<ali1234> maybe it can't cos it is running as root
<ali1234> oh i see the problem, infinite loop, lol
<ali1234> yay
<ali1234> great. so now i can decide on a per app basis, if the app uses global menus or not
<ali1234> with the default being to use them
<gordonjcp> o_O
<gordonjcp> python *2*?
<ali1234> yes, python 2
<ali1234> python 3 is weird
<gordonjcp> ugh
<ali1234> you can install it if you want
<ali1234> python is good like that
<ali1234> side by side installs
<gordonjcp> yeah, that's how Arch does it
<ali1234> it's not installed by default because nothing uses it
<gordonjcp> Python 3 for normal stuff, with Python 2 for unsupported legacy stuff
<Azelphur> Python 2 isn't unsupported o.O
<ali1234> isn't arch basically gentoo for people who think gentoo is too stable?
<gordonjcp> it's going away pretty soon
<Azelphur> ...no it's not
<ali1234> lol no
<ali1234> python 2 is not going anywhere
<Azelphur> There are many major huge libraries that are vitally important, that havn't even begun to be ported to python 3 yet
<penguin42> why do scripting libraries insist on making themselves unfortunately incompatible just as lots of stuff starts using them
<ali1234> because if they didn't we'd still all be stuck with perl
<gordonjcp> Azelphur: like?
<gordonjcp> Python 2 is supposed to be EOL by the end of this month...
<ali1234> that'sa good one
<gordonjcp> http://www.python.org/download/releases/2.7/
<ali1234> Python 2.7 is scheduled to be the last major version in the 2.x series before it moves into an extended maintenance period.
<ali1234> that doesn't sound like EOL to me
<gordonjcp> oh, it is
<ali1234> EOL = we're never going to touch that code ever again
<gordonjcp> which is pretty much the case
<ali1234> except that it isn't
<gordonjcp> "bug fixes, if someone can be bothered submitting patches"
<gordonjcp> right, fine, stick with your obsolete Python 2 stuff
<ali1234> i don't see twisted for python 3
<gordonjcp> you say that like it's a bad thing
<ali1234> django doesn't work on python 3 either
<ali1234> it's extremely bad if you run a large service which is totally dependent on it
<ali1234> here's a handy list i just found http://python3wos.appspot.com/
<ali1234> hmm i didn't even know mock was written in python
<gordonjcp> I used to use django but I'm moving away from it
<MunkyJunky> Hey all - I had a HDD as ext4, put 120Gb of media on it, then Ubuntu decided it was an unrecognised file type and I can't mount it. Is there any way I can get my data back? Force it to mount as ext4?
<ali1234> as always it depends
<ali1234> the first thing you should do is copy the raw partition to another drive so you can work on it without causing further data loss
<MunkyJunky> There's the thing - I have 80Gb free on my Ubuntu partition, and 50Gb free on my Win7 partition, but I dont have 120Gb on 1 disk spare.
<ali1234> "delete windows"
<MunkyJunky> Tempting, but it has more stable wireless than Ubuntu
<ali1234> stop using wifi as well, wifi sucks
<MunkyJunky> I don't have the option of not wifi, in student accommodation
<ali1234> well you can try to repair it live but don't blame me if you just make it worse
<ali1234> you should at least backup the mbr/partition table
<MunkyJunky> If it all breaks, it'll be a mjorr pain, but it's all DVD rips ad such. I *can* rerip if I have to
<MunkyJunky> I'd just really rather not, because it took a while to do
<gordonjcp> MunkyJunky: is there an alternate superblock you can use?
<ali1234> does the disk have read errors?
<ali1234> does it make funny sounds?
<ali1234> is it external USB?
<MunkyJunky> The disk only appears if I go into admin > disk util. It's not appearing as a mountable drive in nautilus, and there are no funny sounds. Doesn't sound like it's dying.
<gordonjcp> MunkyJunky: forget the GUI tools
<MunkyJunky> Internal, SATA, exactly the same mode as the other 2 drives in my PC
<gordonjcp> put them utterly from your mind
<MunkyJunky> Just saying, that's the only place I can see it
<ali1234> dump partition table and pastebin it
<gordonjcp> MunkyJunky: okay, what ali1234 says about copying the raw image onto another disk is a Good Idea right now
<gordonjcp> even if you have to go and buy another disk
<gordonjcp> 2TB is about 60 quid these days
<gordonjcp> it's not like you're never going to need the space
<gordonjcp> *anyway*
<ali1234> it has to be bigger then the whole disk, not just the data on it
<MunkyJunky> Yea, I'm thinking I'll be getting a new disk. I just want my data back first. ali1234, how do I get my partition table?
<ali1234> sudo fdisk -l /dev/whatever
<MunkyJunky> I assume thats some cmd I don't know.
<MunkyJunky> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/704969/
<ali1234> ok that looks fine
<ali1234> sda1 really?
<ali1234> it's really the primary?
<MunkyJunky> That wasn't my coice, ubuntu throught that was a good idea.
<MunkyJunky> *choice
<ali1234> ok
<MunkyJunky> my install is running of sdb
<gordonjcp> ali1234: makes no odds really
<ali1234> now do "sudo mount -t ext4 /dev/sda1 /mnt"
<MunkyJunky> "mount: /dev/sda1 already mounted or /mnt busy"
<ali1234> actually dont do that
<ali1234> or... whatever
<ali1234> it's already mounted?
<ali1234> "mount"
<ali1234> look for sda1
<MunkyJunky> Nothing about sda1 in there
<ali1234> what about mnt?
<MunkyJunky> nope
<ali1234> look on dmesg
<ali1234> anything about sda, filesystems, etc
<MunkyJunky> nothing about anything related in there that I can see
<ali1234> pastebin all of it
<MunkyJunky> just lots about my wireless
<MunkyJunky> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/704975/
<ali1234> are you using wireless channel 13?
<MunkyJunky> God I hope not, should be on 11
<ali1234> you might get better results on a different channel
<ali1234> looks like you have CRDA problems
<MunkyJunky> Is that wireless or HDD related?
<ali1234> wireless
<ali1234> i don't see any HDD problems
<ali1234> can you pastebin the mount output as well please
<MunkyJunky> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/704978/
<ali1234> hmmmmmmm
<ali1234> sudo mount -o ro -t ext4 /dev/sda1 /mnt
<ali1234> pastebin full output of that please
<MunkyJunky> "mount: /dev/sda1 already mounted or /mnt busy"
<ali1234> try to mount it somewhere else
<MunkyJunky> Wherever I try mount, it's the same error
<ali1234> sudo fsck -N /dev/sda1
<ali1234> i mean -n
<MunkyJunky> fsck from util-linux-ng 2.17.2
<MunkyJunky> [/sbin/fsck.ext2 (1) -- /dev/sda1] fsck.ext2 /dev/sda1
<feisar> can I use --without-recommends with apt-get?
<feisar> I'd like to install the ubuntu desktop and login screen on a server but not all the office stuff
<MunkyJunky> So now I see why wireless sucks so much :/
<ali1234> why?
<MunkyJunky> I posted the last output you asked for, and then nothing happened, THEN I realised my wireless conked out.
<MunkyJunky> Bloomin' thing.
<gordonjcp> is there some way I'm missing to get Firefox to save its config between sessions in Ubuntu?
<ali1234> what config?
<gordonjcp> ali1234: just basic stuff, like setting middle-click-paste to load a url
<ali1234> where do you configure that?
<gordonjcp> about:config
<ali1234> http://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2006/06/msg00650.html
<gordonjcp> ali1234: tbh that's about the last broken thing I'm prepared to put up with
<gordonjcp> it's easier just to nuke this machine and put Arch back on it
<gordonjcp> ali1234: it's also not storing cookies, so I have to disable google instant every time, log into sites every time
<gordonjcp> it doesn't store passwords
<ali1234> your system sounds pretty messed up
<penguin42> odd, I've never seen a ff be so disobedient - mine generally remembers previous state
<gordonjcp> I deleted and recreated .mozilla
<ali1234> mine remembers previous state even when i don't want it to
<penguin42> ali1234: Can be very embarrassing
<ali1234> any time i quit and restart it, i always get back all 800 tabs
<ali1234> even though i specifically told it not to save tabs
<penguin42> oh oh, ali1234 is another one that has the entire internet loaded into his browser
<ali1234> the only time i quit FF is when i have too many tabs and don't want to close them all 1 at a time
<ali1234> so it is annoying when they all come back
<ali1234> i think the problem is that FF crashes 50% of then time instead of exiting normally
<ali1234> so it thinks it crashed and tries to restore
<mark_b> @ali1234 try the close all other tabs option
<ali1234> but i have 20 windows as well
<ali1234> unity makes window management so difficult that i just open new windows and forget about the old ones
<ali1234> it's easier than trying to find the old one
<gordonjcp> this is just rubbish
<shauno> boy this place is cheery today
<MartijnVdS> *\o/*
<AlanBell> setting up oneiric for a 13 year old boy, what stuff should I put on it?
<MartijnVdS> the internet
<chrisccoulson> AlanBell, http://projects.gnome.org/nanny/ ? ;)
<MartijnVdS> Humble Indie Bundle 1-5
<MartijnVdS> or whatever they're called
<zleap> AlanBell, games,
<Pernig> possibly Skype and some way of getting on MSN?
<Pernig> although the kids don't seem to use MSN so much these days
<zleap> its msn live messenger or somethijng
<AlanBell> chrisccoulson: not *my* 13 year old, I don't care what he looks at on the internet :)
<AlanBell> zleap: yeah, I put the scummvm games and openarena on it so far
<zleap> i guess that is his parents responsibilkity, however are they able to set up content filtering
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: World of Goo?
<zleap> open arena is popular at the rugby club, had a few kids playing that today (under 11's)
<AlanBell> doubt it zleap, but really I have no guilt about letting him use the real internet
<zleap> ok
<AlanBell> MartijnVdS: good suggestions, but I want to stick to stuff in the repos initially
<zleap> and filterng can get int eh way sometimes,  i remembher helping at a primary school trying to research the plymouth blitz was a real issue
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: WoG is in the "paid" software-centre bit
<Pernig> AlanBell: i can lend you the key to my humble bundles if you like
<AlanBell> ah, and that is not populated on oneiric yet it seems
<AlanBell> Pernig: I will tell him about the humble bundles
<Pernig> ok
<zleap> scratch is good if he wants to learn programming / animation stuff
<AlanBell> can't find that in the search oddly enough, I am sure scratch is in the repos somewhere
<shauno> a 13yo?  rename firefox to facebook.  set fb as the home page.  you're set.
<zleap> AlanBell, yeah think it is, otherwise its scratch.mit.edu i think
<AlanBell> ah, DVD playback, need to set that up
<zleap> what about iphone or mp3 player stuff
<shauno> I kinda miss the days where a valid answer was "nothing, the built-in basic interpreter will keep them entertained years"
<zleap> no ipad
<zleap> ipod
<zleap> whjat ever the music thingy is
<AlanBell> banshee, but that is installed by default
<shauno> you don't really need an mp3 player anymore.  as long as flash works, they'll use youtube as one big jukebox
<AlanBell> youtube and bbc iplayer both work fine
<zleap> i click on install in software centre  to install a game and noting happens, could this have something to do with somepackages being in an inconsistant state
<AlanBell> yes
<AlanBell> !dvd
<lubotu3> Ubuntu's default installation and repositories do not include packages needed to play commercial DVDs for legal reasons. For information on adding them, see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RestrictedFormats/PlayingDVDs | For information on the legalities involved, see the "DVD" section of https://help.ubuntu.com/community/FreeFormats
<zleap> AlanBell, thanks i need t find some instructions that work to fix that
<popey> of all the video formats why is it that nautilus can thumbnail my flv, mkv and mp4, but _not_ the OGV!
<GirlyGirl> popey: Really?
<GirlyGirl> bye
<popey> yes GirlyGirl, really.
<faiob> Hi all I have a problem with authentication of the update of synaptic esque someone has a solution to this problem?
<brobostigon> faiob: pastebin the exact error messages for us please.
<faiob> http://paste.ubuntu.com/705012/
<faiob> :)
<brobostigon> faiob: yes, apt is trying to pull packages from a repo, you dont have the ssl keys for.
<brobostigon> just add the keys.
<faiob> yes
<faiob> but for dÃ©pot ubuntu lucid i don't know to do ... .
<brobostigon> what is the repo addr, you are using?
<faiob> http://archive.canonical.com/ubuntu
<brobostigon> faiob: i would ignore the error, that is a valid and trusted repo. but there must be a matching key, for apt. and i dont remember what it is, or where to find it, but i would start with looking with help.ubuntu.com and the wiki.
<faiob> OK the key for my ubuntu archive Automatic Signing Key is 437D05B5
<brobostigon> faiob: add that, with the software sources app, i think.
<Azelphur> hmm, Anyone know how to get keyboard volume control to work in XUbuntu?
<faiob> who i do ?
<Azelphur> default install when I use the volume control I get a slider, but no volume change.
<directhex> faiob: archive.canonical.com is not an ubuntu repo. it contains only a few closed-source apps
<directhex> i.e. the packages you're getting complaints about are *not* from archive.canonical.com
<faiob> directhex: wget -q http://download.tuxfamily.org/glxdock/repository/cairo-dock.gpg -O- | sudo apt-key add -
<faiob> it's for cairo but i'haven't cairo in my ubuntu
<directhex> faiob: that adds the key for that specific cairo-dock repo. still doesn't host xulrunner-1.9.2
<faiob> for my dÃ©pot ubuntu i do http://???.gpg -O- | sudo apt-key add -
<directhex> the ubuntu-keyring package contains the ubuntu keyring files. reinstalling that should ensure that any valid ubuntu-signed repos are fine. http://packages.ubuntu.com/search?keywords=ubuntu-keyring
<faiob> thank
<faiob> thank-you very much i do
<faiob> it's run after download the ubuntu-keyring with apt-update
<faiob> :-D
<faiob> good for me
<constrictor> about to upgrade!!!
<silner> constrictor, to the beta?
<constrictor> it's past beta though isn't it
<silner> Probably I haven't looked. I'm waiting
<constrictor> sliner according to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/OneiricReleaseSchedule we are in pre-release images with final coming out next week
<constrictor> around this time it's generally stable
<constrictor> but that's just me
<ali1234> apport has been switched off in the last update
<ali1234> so it's pretty much done
<silner> Yeah I ought to grab it actually. I didn't really get on with 11.04 so I've lost touch a bit
<ali1234> there isn't much difference
<ali1234> if you didn't like 11.04 you won't like this either
<silner> I've been using Lubuntu 11.04 and Fedora 15 Xfce - bit of new era refusenik I'm afraid
<ali1234> i cannot get xfce to use the right font size
<constrictor> ali1234: 11.04 or 11.10
<ali1234> any
<constrictor> are you using xubuntu or did you just install xfce?
<ali1234> i just installed xfce
<silner> ali1234, I've been with it too long to remember how I changed it now. I think I read something about changing it system wide including cli fonts
<constrictor> i had to do mine individually
<constrictor> so i went to system settings and changed the fonts there
<ali1234> yes well the problem is that half of it... you can't change the fonts
<silner> Actually I think I changed the sizes - was quite happy with font families
<constrictor> and I had to change my font in the terminal profile settings
<constrictor> as well as desktop settings
<ali1234> so you can make the panels etc all use nearly the right font size
<constrictor> that did it for me
<constrictor> yeah
<ali1234> but it is a tiny bit off and that totally screws up the hinting
<ali1234> and then you have gaps in the middle of words and it just looks bad
<ali1234> like KDE on a bad day
<constrictor> mine seems fine
<constrictor> lol
<silner> But I'm using Xfce with Fedora. Probably not that different though
<constrictor> ahhh
<constrictor> i'm on xubuntu but that should not be an issues should it
<constrictor> ?
<ali1234> and then there's a bunch of things that don't have modifiable font size and those are unreadable because the font is abut 3mm high
<constrictor> lol
<silner> I have been told it's harder to find help for the buntus cos they change more from the default Xfce system, but I can't say I've noticed
<ali1234> i don't need help
<ali1234> all i require is that the software works properly
<silner> I can't remember anything out of the ordinary with F15 Xfce ali1234 - what exactly was wrong with the fonts?
<ali1234> well, you know hinting?
<ali1234> it's wrong with xfce
<ali1234> because the screen dpi is totally wrong
<ali1234> and even if you override it
<ali1234> you can't get the font to be the right size
<ali1234> 10 pt is too small and 11 pt is too big
<ali1234> and since it is off by less than 1 pixel that screws up the hinting
<silner> I don't think that problem exists in F15 ali1234 - sorry I misunderstood you earlier
<ali1234> yeah but i won't touch fedora
<silner> I didn't know what the term hinting meant. I was ignorant there :(
<constrictor> I use 9 pt
<constrictor> :)
<silner> I'll have to look to see what I use
<silner> Looks like 10pt
<silner> I used Fedora for the laptop mainly cos it supported my pcmcia wifi card and Ubuntu 11.04 didn't
<ali1234> that makes no sense
<ali1234> drivers are a question of kernel support
<ali1234> picking a whole distro on the basis of which kernel version is has is just silly
<constrictor> ali1234: i'll have to agree with silner that it's not just about the kernel
<silner> Do they defintely have the same kernel version number though?
<ali1234> it doesn't matter
<ali1234> backporting drivers is easy
<constrictor> if it was there'd be only one linux distro
<silner> Surely things get added in later kernels?
<ali1234> there's a whole package for it
<silner> It's not a big deal to change distros though ali1234 ?
<ali1234> of course not
<ali1234> but what you've done is like choosing a car based on the tyres it comes with
<silner> Besides, I could find any info on Edup pcmcia cards ali1234
<silner> So it wasn't easy for me to see hw to make it works
<ali1234> cardbus is plug and play compatible
<ali1234> the brand name of the card is irrelevant
<ali1234> all that matters is what chipset it uses
<silner> All I can say it I tried it in both and only one worked and it was dual booting at the time
<davmor2> czajkowski: hello fancy putting Ireland and England out of the cup you muppet :D
<faiob> hi all always me, after setup with synaptic the packtage elfutils, i don't found elfutils source directory in my ubuntu 10.04 LTS , peapol know?
<faiob> http://paste.ubuntu.com/705068/
<davmor2> faiob: the ii at the front means that the package is installed
<silner> ali1234, I found some solutions but they all involved using ndiswrapper http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1369920
<davmor2> faiob: the source folder might not be called elfutils
<ali1234> well the first thing you should know is that ubuntu forums are full of bad advice
<faiob> davmor2 thank you
<davmor2> faiob: try opening synaptic and right click on the package and select installed files
<faiob> but who i doing for found
<davmor2> faiob: that should give you a break down of what files and folder were installed by the package
<silner> ali1234, I don't doubt it, but what I did notice was on Ubuntu users were having the problem - that's what got me curious to try another distro - as you say it should be easy to solve - but I failed and I couldn't see any successes, by searching
<ali1234> like i said the only thing that matters is what kernel modules you have
<silner> ali1234, Then Ubuntu must have skipped the right kernel because it worked with F14 and F15 and Zenwalk actually
<silner> ali1234, I always meant to try it with Debian unstable out of curiosity but I never got around to it
<silner> ali1234, Anyway that's the only hardware issue I've had, so I'm not up in arms about it and I've grown to like Fedora (without hating Ubuntu) so it was a useful experience
<bigcalm> What happens in 2 days, 7.5 hours?
<AlanBell> we don't know yet bigcalm
<bigcalm> That's terrible
<AlanBell> or didn't know, last time I checked in #awholenewworld
<AlanBell> it might be the aliens landing
<bigcalm> I for one welcome our alien overlords
<ali1234> i'm guessing the answer won't be "hey, we fixed all the bugs"
<bigcalm> heh
 * constrictor is away: Coffee break
<bigcalm> 6am Wednesday. Don't think I'll get up early just to find out
<gord> i think he is broken...
<phillw> I'm sure the nice people @ freenode would explain :P
<phillw> that's a good k-line :)
<daftykins> what's that?
<popey> ask LjL
<daftykins> no i'm asking here!
<popey> he is here
<daftykins> nevermind then.
<phillw> daftykins: for people to be k-lined, there is a good reason. That is the best I can say without knowing why. A K-line is a full ban from freenode (not just ubuntu channels etc).
<shauno> having 12 copies of the same person is usually a good reason
<daftykins> nah i just joined so i don't even know who got k-lined, let alone why ;)
<gordonjcp> gord: ping?
<phillw> daftykins: none of the channel OPs bite, the last thing we want is to ban people. above channel OPs there is also governance. But if someone gets K-lined... it is for a darn good reason.
<LjL> funkyHat was k-lined because he's a terrible troll and a danger to freenode
<LjL> also, because his connection was misbehaving :P
<daftykins> i have absolutely no idea what you're talking about
<LjL> i dunno, i was summoned
<daftykins> nevermind then, i'll go back to other channels :)
<phillw> LjL: That was what I was thinking, but I do not hang around on the freenode area & only pop on briefly when summonsed... same as for the ubuntu-ops-team area. most of the time, we can hold our own areas and use our Ops.
<daftykins> someone needs to get permanently assigned to rework #u-offtopic
<daftykins> ;)
 * LjL starts by banning you :P
<daftykins> weee \o/
<phillw> daftykins: I'm on #lubuntu-offtopic, there are only so many channels any of us can get involved with. We ask that the channels run themselves reasonably. :)
<daftykins> to be honest i should remove it from my join
<hamitron> what is the point in a room for ubuntu, where people talk about "other things"?
<LjL> that's a good question, and one that has created more uprising than you can imagine :)
<daftykins> well actually, if you talk about Linux'y stuff that isn't Ubuntu specific, in #ubuntu, you get moaned at
<daftykins> so i thought that's what that channel should've been for ;x
<hamitron> ah
<daftykins> but instead people trashtalk 24/7 instead \o/
<hamitron> worst I've done in #ubuntu is paste my password
<hamitron> :/
<LjL> daftykins: that's one possible intepretation
<daftykins> hamitron: wewps!
<LjL> daftykins: but not the one currently used
<daftykins> LjL: naw?
<hamitron> daftykins, I was expecting a kick, as it was a rude password
<hamitron> :D
<daftykins> ^_^
<LjL> hamitron: sometimes when ops rolls eyes too hard they become unable to kick properly :<
<hamitron> haha
<LjL> it happened to me, i was looking for my eyes all over the room
<LjL> well, not *looking* for
<hamitron> feeling? ;/
<LjL> twas squishy
<hamitron> tbh, I never stayed in #ubuntu after that
<hamitron> was too embarased
<hamitron> and it felt cold in there
<hamitron> but it gave me reason to change passwords anyway :)
<phillw> hamitron: the idea for offtopic channels is for that. We have exchanged some wonderful recipes on ours. Some of which I've cooked... lovely!
<hamitron> oh
<hamitron> you've just won me over
<hamitron> food ;)
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> tonight i may do some more nutella on toast
<phillw> hamitron: it was getting that much fun, that I did joke that I'd be holding a darning session for socks, and people were interested! But, yeah we do like swapping recipes.... As to getting the ingredients, the does need to internet :P
<daftykins> O_.
<phillw> Essence of smoke took a bit of finding :)
#ubuntu-uk 2012-10-01
<davmor2> hey all
<christel> morning davmor2 :)
<davmor2> christel: how's life down sowff
<christel> bit too busy but otherwise good :)
<davmor2> christel: is it not always a  bit too busy though is that not the way of the life of a geek?
<czajkowski> davmor2: you're on early
<christel> davmor2: i dunno, i'm not a geek ;)
<czajkowski> hah
<czajkowski> christel: you're funny
<christel> :P
 * christel snuggles czajkowski 
<christel> 13
<Darael> 12?
<christel> ;)
<czajkowski> popey: best channel to ask about webapps stuff ?
<christel> czajkowski: when do you head to ireland?
<czajkowski> thursday
<christel> aha!
<diplo> Morning all
<JamesTait> Happy Monday, all! :-D
<christel> heya diplo, JamesTait \o/
<AlanBell> czajkowski: there is an #ubuntu-webapps channel but it is fairly quiet
<czajkowski> cheers
<diplo> Any hackers here ever know anyone who has replaced a iPad2 glass front screen ?
<popey> ifixit
<mungojerry> diplo, about to replace my touchpad front screen
<davmor2> czajkowski: i was on the train to pyconuk for the last time
 * JamesTait hugs christel.
<davmor2> christel: you are So A Geek you little liar
<diplo> Watching a few videos, not for me but a friend.. not sure I want to do it now watching these vids
<AlanBell> good phrase to take out of context
<diplo> :D
<popey> yeah, I wouldn't do it
<popey> will apple do it for your friend?
<diplo> I'd be fine replacing the glass on my own device, but I'm not sure someone elses
<diplo> Â£200
<diplo> 200 pound
<popey> how much is the part alone?
<diplo> Just the glass broke, on ebay 15 pound + postage
<popey> worth a punt then :)_
<diplo> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/New-Black-Touch-Screen-Digitizer-Glass-for-iPad-2-3g-Wifi-Both-Tools-/330802462383?pt=UK_iPad_Tablet_Accessories&hash=item4d055cfeaf#ht_2735wt_1090
<diplo> That's what I thought, loads of videos as well
<popey> i really want to change the disk in my imac but the thought of doing it makes me go "ugh!"
<diplo> explaining where to be careful etc
<popey> need suction cups to remove the screen
<diplo> ooh, rather you than me!
<popey> yeah
<popey> reverted it back from ubuntu to OSX at the weekend
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<diplo> Going to get some suction cups and give it a go then popey ?
<popey> maybe
<popey> I might when I upgrade my laptop to 550GB SSD, and put the 240GB SSD from the laptop in the iMac
<diplo> I've got to start saving for a ssd
<popey> http://www.geek.com/articles/apple/owc-offers-up-imac-ssd-upgrade-kit-suction-cups-included-20120417/
<popey> ooh!
<shauno> popey: I had a video somewhere of a chap who did that quite successfully with a toilet plunger ;)
<popey> haha shauno
<NET||abuse> yay,, micro server just arrived
<NET||abuse> filled out the rebate form, nice!. popey thanks for pointing me at that
<NET||abuse> looking forward to a chance to start installing it and stuff now
<NET||abuse> need to run spinright on all my drives
<NET||abuse> have the 2 1TB and a 250GB in the drawer, so will manage to fill up the slots on the microserver quickly.
<BigRedS> Anyone here use guake?
<BigRedS> I'd like bug 1058073 to get enough attention that someone fixes it :)
<lubotu3`> Launchpad bug 1058073 in guake (Ubuntu) "The currently active tab looks very much like all the inactive ones" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1058073
<NET||abuse> BigRedS: i've not used it in a while.
<NET||abuse> BigRedS: is it much better than it used to be (say 2 years"
<NET||abuse> or is it much the same in gnome 3 as it was in gnome 2
<BigRedS> No idea, I didn't use it in Gnome 2 :)
<NET||abuse> hmm, ok
<BigRedS> I went through a phase of thinking about how I did things and what software I was using when I was trying out different DEs at the end of Gnome 2's life
<BigRedS> seems largely workable to me, what was wrong with it before?
<NET||abuse> I like unity and gnome3,
<NET||abuse> the quick find pattern i us alot now
<NET||abuse> use
<BigRedS> yeah, I just want all the best bits of both to find their way into the same DE
<NET||abuse> just super key, type some letters, hit enter and ussually running what i want straight away
<NET||abuse> part of me wants xfce or something
<NET||abuse> i do begrudge the overhead
<BigRedS> mm, I really like the gnome-shell/empathy tie-in with that pop-up at the bottom of the screen that I can type into
<NET||abuse> but i love the compositing desktop
<BigRedS> but then I dislike empathy's general rubbishness...
<NET||abuse> empathy needs to be left in the dust or re-invented
<NET||abuse> Though i can't really comment on the latest and greatest. i'm on F16 right now for work
<NET||abuse> I should totally upgrade to F17, or else just ditch Fedora and go back to Ubuntu
<BigRedS> Oh man, I tried fedora a bit for a while
<BigRedS> It was really neat for about six hours and then just kept annoying me
<NET||abuse> MTA driver doesn't work right so i'm stuck using Airdroid to move stuff to and from my phone and nexus 7
<NET||abuse> yeh, i like their effort to use the base gnome shell as the desktop
<NET||abuse> i think there needs to be gnome-shell and unity as substitute options
<BigRedS> my distro-hopping's basically limited to Debian and Ubuntu now. Nothing else is close enough to debian to not irritate me...
<BigRedS> for FC?
<NET||abuse> everywhere
<BigRedS> haha
<BigRedS> well, everything does gnome-shell, just gotta get porting unity!
<NET||abuse> and gnome 2, xfce and E17 :P
<NET||abuse> fvwm, enlightenment,lxde, flux box
<NET||abuse> all of em on the login session selector
<NET||abuse> i'd love it if kde 4 would become good and widely supported again
<NET||abuse> feel like it's loosing out a bit to the gnome 2/3 unity draw
<BigRedS> losing out? I think KDE stopped being relevant shortly after KDE4
<NET||abuse> yes, unfortunately
<popey> I once tried to switch to KDE for a whole cycle. It annoyed me so much I switched back after about 6 weeks
<NET||abuse> i've done this also
<NET||abuse> popey: the microserver, it arrived, i'm so excited to get cnfiguring, have you any pointers on the setup?
<popey> I have 8GB RAM in mine, and put a boot disk in the optical bay
<popey> so i have the other 4 bays available for big disks
<popey> and added a pci express esata card
<NET||abuse> I've got 2x250GB drvies and 2x1TB drives which will fill up the available slots for now, and i've a 2.5" 160GB drive which i could put in as OS disk
<Laney> biggus diskus
<NET||abuse> :P
<NET||abuse> is there any bios jiggery pokery i should look at?
<Laney> there's a grandparents' day?
 * Laney eyes amazon suspiciously
<NET||abuse> alot of google results are going on about upping speed settings for the sata interfaces and changing to AHCI mode on the sata4/5 ports to allow them to be ssd's and the optical to be bootable
<popey> i haven't done any of that
<popey> speed on sata interfaces would be handy
<NET||abuse> hm, so myabe i don't need to
<popey> well, mine is IO bound a lot of the time
<popey> so i might need it
<popey> is yours an n40L or n36L?
<NET||abuse> yeh, they have 1Gb/s on the southbridge, can be upped to 3Gb/s apparently
<NET||abuse> N40l
<popey> interesting, might look at that
<gord> merrymailmanween!
<popey> welcome back to democracy!
<NET||abuse> hmm, sorry 1.5Gb/s can be upped to 3Gb/s
<NET||abuse> needs a homebrew looking bios for the N40L anyway, maybe not such a great plan?
<NET||abuse> not sure abuot the 36
<NET||abuse> ah, you can switch the optical bay interface from IDE to AHCI which allows the faster sata mode transpport
<NET||abuse> and it's the same for the N36L
<NET||abuse> so you're not doing anything too scary
<popey> optical bay interface?
<popey> I'm using a SATA cable plugged into the mobo, socket near the front
<NET||abuse> the sata port that is fre for he optical drive bay
<NET||abuse> yeh, but according to the forum posters, the unmodded bios will only run that as IDE
<popey> interesting
<popey> i have an SSD on that port
<NET||abuse> so you'll only get about 97 Mb/s or 1Gb/s speed on it depending on other drive mode factors, where as AHCI mode will run at about 6Gb/s
<NET||abuse> also, pseudo hot pluggable :)
<NET||abuse> you have to spin down/de-activate in software the drives, but you can just hot plug them in and out then :)
<NET||abuse> neat
<NET||abuse> also the esata port will run faster, so i'm not sure if that's the port your external enclosure is connecting through, but it might even boost that performance too
<NET||abuse> some folks are reporting that their winblows install won't boot after switching modes, and they're saying the boot sector or boot config needs to be re-written to reflect it running in the sata mode instead of PATA
<NET||abuse> so not sure how that will affect an install under ubuntu/freenas
<NET||abuse> which are you running?
<popey> no, my external array is on a pcie card
<NET||abuse> ahh, of course
<popey> the internal card doesn't do PM
<popey> ubuntu server
<NET||abuse> yeh, you were saying, so you can't abstract multiple drives
<NET||abuse> maybe the internal port can be made more funcational again with bios mods
<popey> I'd be very surprised if it can
<NET||abuse> hmm, that's true, genearrly you need a true controller to do that really
<NET||abuse> interesting redaing the forums though
<NET||abuse> alot of coverage on avforums.com
<NET||abuse> alroight
<NET||abuse> gotta go back to programming, it'll be tomorrow before I get a change to bring in screwdrivers and attach drvies in place
<NET||abuse> that said, maybe i need to do this at home, don't have spare monitor in work.
<AlanBell> popey: how is the tomato juice?
<pinky-> I watched popey's cho cho video yesterday on you tube and it flooded back loads of memories from my childhood as I used to live about a 1000 meters from Alton train station. I used to live on the main road directly opposite the doctors.
<pinky-> mumble in the jungle;)
<popey> AlanBell, yummy, nearly time for some more
<popey> I'd turned the ice machine off for the winter, turned it back on again :)
<popey> heh pinky- :)
<popey> my kids love steam trains almost as much as me
<pinky-> all I remember about the front of the train staion is the greasy spoon cafe and the motorbike shop
<pinky-> they still there?
<pinky-> popey: I liked your Ubuntu Unity Overview video
<pinky-> busy here and I'll be back later
<pinky-> bye for now
<Flashtek> o/
<czajkowski> Laney: oi cheeeky!
 * Flashtek is getting paid for sitting on his arse and doing nothing...
<Laney> czajkowski: hm?
<czajkowski> your G+ posting *if* :)
<popey> thank you pinky-
<Laney> reality is bad
 * Laney is excited for his shiny new PC coming tomorrow
<bittin^work> =>
<popey> ooh, what you getting?
 * Laney is irritated at halifax declining the payment from his CC
<Laney> phone call asking to call them back on some 0845 number with some cryptic reference number
<Laney> doesn't repeat it, hangs up
<Laney> i7-3770k, gtx 670, 32 gb ram, ssd
<bittin^work> Laney, nice =)
<bittin^work> my i5-2500k, gtx 560, 8gb ram, ssd and hdd starts getting old :(
<Laney> heh
<Laney> sounds newer than my current PC (4.5 years)
<popey> golly!
<popey> 32GB RAM!?
<Laney> virtualise ALL the machines
<popey> aww, cat asleep under my desk
<Azelphur> my board is maxed out at 24GB :p
<Azelphur> tri channel since I'm on the old i7
 * popey wonders how much his mobo will take :)
<Laney> my webkit test build just failed with out of memory
<popey> oof
<Laney> hopefully will be able to build the beast in RAM on the new machine
<popey> hmm, mobo not listed on crucial.com/uk :(
<popey> dmidecode says MSI MS7680
<popey> â¢ Supports two unbuffered DIMM of 1.5 Volt DDR3 1066/1333 DRAM, 16GB Max
<popey> Morning bigcalm !
<dogmatic69> anyone know if its possible to use inkscape plugins via terminal?
<bigcalm> Um, good afternoon popey!
<bigcalm> popey: Am I wanted?
<popey> nope
<bigcalm> Ok, just confused then
<christel> way to make a man feel good about himself popey! how very rude
 * bigcalm tickles christel then goes back to work
<diplo> popey: Love the idea for QR codes on devices, good find..
 * diplo adds to list 'to do'
<davmor2> bigcalm: Mooooooooooooooo!
<davmor2> bigcalm: 'Ow am ya
<bigcalm> davmor2: busy, you?
<davmor2> bigcalm: enjoying playing breaking the raspberry pi ermmmm well at least the sdcard :D pycon uk
<bigcalm> davmor2: which is why you aren't allowed anything nice
<davmor2> bigcalm: I got one :P I just want go crazy on the overclock for mine which we think is the issue but they are already trying to fix it
<davmor2> won't even
<popey> bug 1056814
<lubotu3`> Error: Launchpad bug 1056814 could not be found
<popey> bah
<davmor2> popey: what's up dude and who was the random bug report aimed at
<popey> nobody
<popey> abusing the bot
<Azelphur> has anyone ever seen a project on kickstarter go to release? o.O
<Azelphur> It seems like all the cool things on kickstarter never make it and everyone is in limbo
<SuperMatt> Azelphur: You only need to look as far as Amanda Palmer, who managed to raise over $1M for her new album
<popey> yes
<SuperMatt> there are other projects that are close to release
<popey> i have received at least one thing from kickstarter
<Azelphur> :p
<Azelphur> fun
<popey> also, cards against humanity
<popey> that was a kickstarter, and you can buy that at amazon us
<Azelphur> ah
<popey> and I know that exists because I've played it ;)
<Azelphur> I've been waiting on power laces for so long xD
<popey> I have 3 more pending delivery now
<Laney> I loooooooooooooove being on hold to ebuyer
<popey> they use ubuntu
<Azelphur> fun
<Laney> constant advertising
<popey> advertising to people who are doing something else? that'll never catch on!
<Laney> ?!
<Laney> I don't really care if it's caught on
<dwatkins> popey: I'm still listening to that album you linked on G+ :)
<popey> heh, the one from nikki and the robots?
<dwatkins> http://cerror.bandcamp.com/ - Rainbow Parade
 * xnox 's housemate is English, he just said:"Can we call that bird a parrot, even though it's a massive pigeon!"
<dwatkins> ah, could be from that, I didn't see
<xnox> dwatkins: are you the dwatkins I think you are, or not?
<dwatkins> xnox: that depends who you think I am...
<xnox> dwatkins: OddBloke ?!
<dwatkins> I am not odd.
<dwatkins> I also don't use this nickname elsewhere.
<xnox> hm.... Oddbloke is the irc nick name I know one Daniel Watkins.
<dwatkins> unless my nephew has discovered IRC at the young age of 12, that's not me nor anyone I know ;)
<Darael>  /redraw
<dwatkins> ^L
<Darael> I had some trouble with a screen-nicklist script on ^L.
<Darael> So I've been using /redraw.
<Darael> I have no idea why it works better but it does.
<dwatkins> I sometimes have redraw problems when there are colours or control characters on screen. I find it's less of an issue if I enable UTF.
<Laney> good
<Laney> convinced ebuyer and amazon to take payment
<Laney> silly fraud prevention
<popey> http://gadgetshow.channel5.com/gadget-show/gadget-news/a-49-ipod-touch-killer-sign-us-up
<popey> golly
<popey> can't see that on amazon
<AlanBell> amazingly cheap $thing is not a killer of an amazingly expensive $thing for all values of $thing
<AlanBell> does look good though
<Azelphur> yea, looks pretty cool
<Azelphur> popey: I'd compare it to the matrix one 7 as it's similarly priced
 * AlanBell wonders if there are any current tablets that will run Ubuntu yet
 * popey ran ubuntu on his
<popey> and i saw someone has ported it to the transformer
<popey> http://www.xda-developers.com/android/net-install-ubuntu-on-the-transformer-tf101/
<Azelphur> cool
<Azelphur> Has anyone got NFC payments working in UK on a phone yet? :p
<Azelphur> I'm trying to find a way to do it on my SGS3 but all the options seem restricted to not be used by me xD
<SuperMatt> I have a question about ubuntu support
<SuperMatt> how far does canonical go to support a webserver, for instance. That is, if a paying customer has an issue with apache, will canonical patch it?
<AlanBell> http://www.canonical.com/enterprise-services/ubuntu-advantage/support
<AlanBell> SuperMatt: depends really I guess, if you report a bug it could lead to stuff being backported to a supported release
<SuperMatt> right, ok
<SuperMatt> so here's the thing
<SuperMatt> how much support would I get from canonical with setting up an nginx server? would be it considerably less than an apache server?
<AlanBell> !info nginx
<lubotu3`> nginx (source: nginx): small, but very powerful and efficient web server and mail proxy. In component universe, is optional. Version 1.1.19-1 (precise), package size 6 kB, installed size 84 kB
<AlanBell> "In component universe" <- not in main
<xnox> AlanBell: and that means nothing ;-)
<AlanBell> really?
<xnox> SuperMatt: contact ubuntu-advantage support and inquire of level of support offered for your use cases and which web-servers they'd rather support for your case.
<SuperMatt> so basically apache would definitely get more support than nginx. OK. That's the answer I need for my documentation.
<xnox> SuperMatt: apache is the default in debian and ubuntu, due to features.
<xnox> SuperMatt: more often you get better performance with nginx especially with respect to caching static files & serving webapps (php, ruby, python, etc).
<SuperMatt> xnox: indeed, it's certainly faster, I'm just wondering if the business is willing to trade speed against support
<xnox> SuperMatt: put an enquiry in, and see the response.
<pinky-> Mayan Apocalypse Update: http://gizmodo.com/5947845/astronomers-discover-huge-comet-coming-towards-us
<xnox> czajkowski: I love your bug 1058364 trianging, does that mean "you lived without that one email since forever, you can live without it further?!" =)))))
<lubotu3`> Launchpad bug 1058364 in Launchpad itself "not getting 'waiting for approval' email when sponsoring syncs when the archive is frozen" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1058364
<czajkowski> xnox: it's a it's a nice to have but there is no dev happening but we dont mark things as wishlist
<xnox> czajkowski: I see =) I never mastered the "art of politically correctly assigning bug status and priorities"
 * xnox gets increasing amount of personal (hate) mail.
<czajkowski> I get an increasing amout of people poking me in non work channels over me triaging them so we're even
 * xnox meh
<Laney> haha :(
 * popey adds a dash of sriracha to his tomato juice
<MartijnVdS> Tomato juice.. VHY?!
<popey> MartijnVdS, yummy
<popey> and part of my 5 a day :)
<jpds> MartijnVdS: Why not?
<MartijnVdS> This is why we invented tomato soup and tomato sauce!
<MartijnVdS> so we don't have to drink the juice!
<popey> i bought a box of 12 cartons which arrives tomorrow
<popey> i still haven't finished the two cartons i bought yesterday!
<MartijnVdS> stage blood!
<MartijnVdS> it's almost halloween
<popey> yeah, as people come trick-or-treating, I'll lob cups of juice over them
<czajkowski> ou can make lovely tomatoe soup with tomatoe juice
<popey> awesome idea
<czajkowski> *you
<czajkowski> basil and tomatoe soup with fresh out of the oven hot bread rolls
<popey> am enjoying juice + ice + worcester sauce + sriracha
<czajkowski> yummy
<czajkowski> never heard of sriracha
<popey> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sriracha_sauce
<popey> yummy
<popey> makes _everything_ taste _better_
<popey> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Sriracha_%22Rooster_Sauce%22.jpg
<czajkowski> do love me a bit of worcester sauce over a fried egg
<mgdm> I wonder how long it'll be before you're thoroughly sick of tomato juice, popey ;-)
<popey> I give it a week
<czajkowski> when he glows red
<czajkowski> :)
<mgdm> hehe
 * popey checks to see if there are any medical side effects
<mgdm> there's a mildly unfortunate phrasing in your tweet
<mgdm> but anyway
<pinky-> next time you pour a bloody mary put a spike in it
<popey> oh?
<popey> lol
<knightwise> eeeevenin
<bigcalm> Afternoon
<knightwise> hey bigcalm
<knightwise> have you tried the Ubuntu webapps preview in 12.04 ?
<bigcalm> Nope, I use xubunu-desktop
<knightwise> hmm..
<bigcalm> Unity does not make me productive
<knightwise> i'm trying to install it and i get an error about borken packages
<bigcalm> Well, if it's a preview...
<knightwise> hmm.. true. I did work a little while ago , but it seems to have a problem with the latest firefox
<czajkowski> popey: ^^^
<czajkowski> I know he had some issue tday with FF not sure it's that though
<popey> knightwise, i dont think those PPAs are well maintained tbh
<popey> knightwise, it just about works in 12.10 :D
<knightwise> popey: thanx :) i'll just wait with implementing it
<knightwise> I realy liked it though
<jacobw> i don't like the messaging menu in quantal
<jacobw> the new icons are off palete
<jacobw> but i quite like that applications are named instead of 'chat' and 'mail'
<bigcalm> Good evening peeps :)
<webpigeon> Evening bigcalm
<pr0ph3t> hi all
<pr0ph3t> would you be so kind to help me out upgrading to the latest Gnome? I'm running Gnome Shell on Ubuntu 12.04
<pr0ph3t> do I need to change PPA?
<Darael> If you upgraded since adding the PPA, it will have been disabled, with the result that you're running the version that ships with Precise.
<Darael> Otherwise, we can't know if you need to change PPA without knowing what PPA you're using.
<Darael> Well, unless the answer is "You can't because something in it clashes with something important in Ubuntu", which I suppose is possible.  I'm not up-to-date on the Gnome situation.  Just applying general knowledge to the question :)
<pr0ph3t> I'm using the Precise vanilla PPA
 * popey shrugs
<Darael> ...I'm not sure that makes sense.  Do you mean the repositories that are active on vanilla Precise?  Those aren't actually PPAs; they're the primary mirrors.
<Darael> s/mirrors/archives/ - not that it makes any difference now that pr0ph3t's gone.
<pr0ph3t> sorry didn't mean to be rude, just disconnected accidentally
<pr0ph3t> oh please popey! Ok I'm not up-to-date on Ubuntu as I should be. So now we talk about primary mirrors
<Darael> I meant archives, actually.  My mistake.
<popey> i know nothing of gnome shell, sorry.
<pr0ph3t> does it still work in a similar way? When I wanted to use beta/daily builds of certain packages I used to change the PPA
<pr0ph3t> popey, I just said it because you shrugged
<Darael> Um.  A PPA is a small archive of packages hosted on launchpad.  Technically it's a Personal Package Archive.  It's a term usually used to distinguish PPAs from the main archives.  There may be a gnome-shell PPA available for precise; my suggestion would be to log into launchpad and click the "search PPAs" link, then search for gnome-shell.
<pr0ph3t> I do not think 3.6 is going to be in Precise, it is in Quetzal though
<Darael> It's possible it'll be in precise-backports?  I don't know, but it might be.
<pr0ph3t> ok thank you, I'll have a look :-)
<popey> jbicha is the guy to ask
<Azelphur> seems like giffgaff is nerfing the Â£10 goodybag :(
<mgdm> 'nerfing'?
<popey> fancy that
<popey> 1. offer too-good-to-be-true deal
<Darael> mgdm: Making less ridiculously good.
<popey> 2. get loads of customers
<popey> 3. shutdown the offer
<popey> 4. profit
<Azelphur> lol
<Azelphur> Darael: it compares with other offerings after the nerf tbh
<Azelphur> mgdm: Â£10 plan gets knocked down to 1GB instead of unlimited, unlimited plan now costs Â£12
<Azelphur> but for Â£12.90 you can get unlimited from three, and three has better coverage
<mgdm> ah
<Azelphur> I hear that three has more aggressive anti-tethering measures though, although I'm sure it's nothing I couldn't bypass xD
<Azelphur> I imagine bumping up TTL and using a VPN is autowin
<Azelphur> mgdm: also, nerfing, http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=nerf
<popey> three has anti-tethering?
<Azelphur> popey: someone told me it does
<Azelphur> apparently it sends a message to the phone and then forces you to reboot the phone before internet can be used again
<dogmatic69> popey: lol, that reply to your twitter was good.
<dogmatic69> cat /proc/cpuinfo
<popey> :D
<brobostigon> good night everyone ,sleep well.
#ubuntu-uk 2012-10-02
<christel> good morning lovelies
<AlanBell> morning all
<dwatkins> mornin all
<BigRedS> Gooood Morning!
<JamesTait> Good morning all! :)
<Myrtti> theres no proper tea here and I forgot my Yorkshires at home :-(
<gord> you should get czajkowski to bring you some, that always works for me
<mungojerry> who was complaining that they couldn't order from amazon due to the delivery company? i bought something yesterday and i saw a link for "pick up at one of these 11 delivery centres"
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<BigRedS> mungojerry: have you checked where those delivery centres are?
<mungojerry> no, i thought it would only show me ones near me
<gord> DTS are pretty good with amazon now, they even give me two hour periods in the day when the thing will be delivered
<gord> uh, DPD not DTS
<Laney> yeah, I got a text this morning saying when they expect it to come
 * Laney is on edge about getting ninja carded though... 3 deliveries today
<Myrtti> no respectable company would offer a job by emailing from a live.com-email address, right?
<BigRedS> haha
<BigRedS> mungojerry: my local one is in an Amazon distribution centre 45 mins away; I'm assuming laziness on their part :)
<bigcalm> My new fountain pen and ink just arrived via royal mail. Yay \o/
<bigcalm> I think I might have an addiction
<bigcalm> A very slow but expensive one
<gord> one click ordering, its a real problem
<bigcalm> This wasn't via Amazon and I ensure that one-click is disabled
<MartijnVdS> In 13.04: "One click" shopping... from the dash
<bigcalm> Oh my
<MartijnVdS> popey: ^ suggestion for amazon lens
<bigcalm> Horrible horrible thought
<Myrtti> Amazon is nice, I ordered a waterproof coat, nice looking wellies and an archeology trowel from there, the latter was an Amazon Prime purchase
<Myrtti> no Amazon in Finland so I savour every moment in UK
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: doesn't amazon ship to .fi though?
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: .nl gets free shipping even though there's no ".nl" amazon
<Myrtti> yup, but in most cases the shipping costs are a bit high
<MartijnVdS> \o/ free super-saver delivery to .nl ;)
<Myrtti> and I try to use .de for things I get to Finland and the language is teeniest problem there
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: If I want electronics from Amazon, .de is my best bet.. but UK is fine for books, CDs, etc.
<Myrtti> yeah.
<MartijnVdS> and there are rumours that amazon.nl will open this month..
 * MartijnVdS hopes
<AlanBell> kickstarter + company credit card is a great combination
<dwatkins> AlanBell: can I have a 3D printer please?
<christel> yes! buy dwatkins a 3d printer from me (SHH - we're doing a build)
<theopensourcerer> Sure. We'll buy you a printer if you purchase several thousand pounds worth of Free Software Consulting services services from us ;-)
<dwatkins> Please define 'several', theopensourcerer ;)
<theopensourcerer> That normally means more than a couple but less that loads
<dwatkins> The 3D printer itself is about $3000.
<dwatkins> I really like the look of it, but it's Kickstarter - you're investing in a startup company, bnot buying a product which will arrive the next week, of course.
<AlanBell> you are not really, you are making a donation to a company mostly (well rewards are a bit of a payback)
<dwatkins> ah ok
<bigcalm> Venture capital without the VC having any stake in the company
<AlanBell> exactly
<AlanBell> the rewards that are pre-orders make sense
<bigcalm> Yep
<theopensourcerer> Potentially a Kickstarter project could offer equity I guess.
<dwatkins> or just dinner and a movie
 * AlanBell puts libertus Solutions on Kickstarter
<theopensourcerer> "What do want?"
<theopensourcerer> damn
<theopensourcerer> "What do we want?"
<dwatkins> I hope that woman running away with people's money hasn't hurt Kickstart as a concept, it's been quite useful for some things.
<theopensourcerer> "Money"
<gord> kickstarter is supposed to be about giving little guys a leg up because you like the idea of what they are making and vc's won't take the risk. thats all pretty much gone now though, now its just people not knowing anything about traditional investment and just putting stuff up on ks by default
<theopensourcerer> "When do we want it?"
<theopensourcerer> "Now!"
<dwatkins> gord: yeah, I gather they often reinvent the wheel in terms of manufacturing, though
<AlanBell> as a way of financing development by pre-orders of finished goods it makes a lot of sense
<gord> dwatkins, who does?
<dwatkins> gord: some Kickstarter projects seem to go it alone in terms of how to produce their devices, I'm concerned they aren't being helped by existing manufacturers or companies who could assist with production
<gord> eh, i think they all just get china to build the stuff like the rest of the world does
<dwatkins> I've been impressed by the sheer number of updates from Nifty about their MiniDrive and the Elevation Dock.
<dwatkins> I was tempted to get a Pebble watch, but they're quite expensive.
<popey> dwatkins, not heard story of woman running off with kickstarter money?
<gord> i think there was some other website that tried to do proper investment crowd funding, but it was really complicated and scary
<dwatkins> popey: it's a compicated story, and it looks like I may have misjudged her: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/566429325/tropes-vs-women-in-video-games/comments vs http://newmediarockstars.com/2012/09/tropes-vs-women-do-anti-feminist-trolls-validate-sarkeesians-160k-windfall/
<SuperMatt> does anyone know of any php page that I can download that'll give apache/nginx a run for its money?
<AlanBell> SuperMatt: that will test PHP rather than the server
<dwatkins> popey: the other thing about this Kickstarter project is that someone made a video apparently for free explaining many of the themes she discussed, but it seems the claims are false: http://www.reddit.com/r/antisrs/comments/10o665/anita_sarkeesian_on_the_front_page_of_reddit_in/
<SuperMatt> AlanBell: do you know of anything that'll test both then?
<dwatkins> I don't understand why it's so expensive to make a few videos discussing some topics many people are ery familiar with, perhaps she's interviewing celebrities.
<dwatkins> *very
<BigRedS> SuperMatt: there's a few tools for it; ab (apachebenchmark) and siege are pretty standard
<BigRedS> you run them from a client, configure them to make X requests/second and/or Y requests at a time and/or for Z seconds and see what the server does
<AlanBell> SuperMatt: the important thing is to understand the actual workload
<SuperMatt> yeah, I know about ab, but I don't want to send back the basic "It works!" page, I'd like to send back something which may contain a few large images, maybe a couple of js and css files too, just to get the gist of how well it's running
<Myrtti> dwatkins: 6000USD is expensive?
<BigRedS> SuperMatt: why? What's teh problem you're trying to solve?
<SuperMatt> I'm not trying to solve much, I just want to compare the stats for a "normal" site
<dwatkins> Myrtti: not for a 3D printer :)
<SuperMatt> comparing stats for a holding page doesn't really cut it
<SuperMatt> it's not a "real" test
<Myrtti> I should probably continue with the knitting and watching telly instead of getting trolled
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<shauno> depends what the expected role of the site actually is.  if you're just serving static assets (js/css/etc), a holding page is just as good
<BigRedS> SuperMatt: there's not really such a thing as a 'normal' site. If you just want something that'll excercise 'stuff', I'd go with a Wordpress install or something
<mgdm> +1
<SuperMatt> BigRedS: Thanks, that's what I was thinking, I was just wandering if there's anything else
<AlanBell> vtiger is a stressier thing on database and php interactions
<AlanBell> probably the bit that the http stack does is insignificant in comparison
<AlanBell> if you trace what it does rendering a page you can get stuff like this: http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/callgraphs/contact.png
 * BigRedS was expecting a screenshot of an strace
<BigRedS> AlanBell: I'm guessing the Apache vs NGinx was really caching nginx + apache vs just apache
<AlanBell> probably, I am using php5-apc to make things faster, and did a lot of work optimising mysql queries so they are all indexed
<mgdm> AlanBell: there's someone making a nicer UI for XHProf at http://xhprof.io
<mgdm> AlanBell: might be worth keeping an eye on
<bigcalm> mgdm: is drinking or hacking happening this Friday evening?
<bigcalm> I am confused
<mgdm> bigcalm: both
<BigRedS> we have a customer who does that from time to time
<bigcalm> I should work out where to park
<bigcalm> It really surprised me that the Sunday is a half day thing. I guess I'm only used to oggcamp
<mgdm> there's often a mass exodus of folk on the Sunday afternoon anyway
<bigcalm> Anybody else in here attending phpnw12?
<bigcalm> Guess not :)
<davmor2> Morning all
<mungojerry> can i use virtualbox to run a VM of my physical windows partition?
<BigRedS> I bet the 'NW' in that doesn't refer to north-west London
<bigcalm> BigRedS: no, not really :)
<bigcalm> Hi davmor2
<bigcalm> davmor2: going to the lug tomorrow?
<mgdm> mungojerry: while I think it might be possible, the Windows install will get horribly confused by the complete change of hardware
<mgdm> mungojerry: so I wouldn't recommend it
<davmor2> bigcalm: maybe depends on what is happen but the 1286 emails this morning doesn't look like a good start to be honest ;)
<bigcalm> Ho hum
<bigcalm> davmor2: As I'm going to Manchester Friday to Sunday, I'm pondering saving my pennies
<bigcalm> davmor2: I intend to attend on Thursday though
<davmor2> bigcalm: so I was talking with alex and he doesn't think he can make it so unless gord and or mrevell are going I think it might be off
<bigcalm> davmor2: that's fair enough
<mrevell> davmor2, I'm in that there London tomorrow.
<bigcalm> gord: what say you?
<gord> gord no want to go anywhere this week
<bigcalm> davmor2: see you in a month then
<BigRedS> mungojerry: I've seen it done before. It's iffy and non-reversible AFAIK
 * mungojerry takes the advice 
<davmor2> bigcalm: Sounds that way
<mungojerry> tried to get chromium os running on my eee pc 701 , didn't work :(
<bigcalm> Anybody here use MySQL Workbench?
<dogmatic69> yes
<bigcalm> dogmatic69: can you increase the size of the page?
<bigcalm> In the model view
<dogmatic69> yep
<bigcalm> dogmatic69: how? ;)
<bigcalm> Oh, now I see it :|
<dogmatic69> file -> page setup
<bigcalm> Model -> Diagram Properties and Size
<dogmatic69> lol
<dogmatic69> that crashed mine
<bigcalm> Yeah, MySQL Workbench is a rather crashy thing in Linux
 * bigcalm saves
<bigcalm> I hate having connections overlapping
<mungojerry> is there a decent gnome 3.6 ppa for 12.04?
<Laney> I haz SSD! CPU! Graphics! RAM!
<czajkowski> how to make a bunch of people very happy mid sprint, bring them a large curly wurly cake! and watch the finger licking begin!
<gord> give me the cake
<gord> don't let them have it
<gord> why should they have it? why are they so special, give me the cake
<gord> why are you not giving me the cake right now? >:(
<hoover> hi folks
<czajkowski> gord: cause they're webops and I plague em :)
<czajkowski> gord: I bring you tea bags
<gord> i want a curly wurly cake!
<gord> no actually, i just want curly wurlys
<gord> i'm gonna buy some curly wurlys at the shop and celebrate by eating them
<czajkowski> gord: I just had to explain what they were to people
<elfy> you had to explain what a curly wurly was ?
<elfy> that's sad :p
<gord> its a ladder of deliciousness
<davmor2> elfy: they aren't all england and so many have been deprived
<elfy> indeed - and I'm still not sure whether my hands are bigger or curly wurly's are smaller
<elfy> davmor2: that's almost sadder :)
<czajkowski> davmor2: this was to an enlgish guy as well as an aussie
<davmor2> elfy: I blame their parents for not emigrating so they could have a better level of chocolatey goodness
<gord> if you are english and do not know what a curly wurly is, you should have to give in your passport
<elfy> ha ha ha
<mgdm> or even British
<mgdm> :)
<BigRedS> I've not seen a curly wurly for a long time
<BigRedS> @)
<BigRedS> :(, even
<elfy> I saw one yesterday
<elfy> and then I didn't
<BigRedS> haha
<pinky-> at our local Co Op they sell Curly Wurlys in packs of ten, but they are much smaller then they used to be
<pinky-> same with Wagon Wheels.. they seem a lot smaller too
<BigRedS> should there be a release party listed here: http://loco.ubuntu.com/teams/ubuntu-uk/events ?
<czajkowski> BigRedS: ello
<czajkowski> BigRedS: AlanBell is sorting that out
<christel> AlanBell is such a slacker.
<christel> (i have no idea what a curly wurly is) :o
<BigRedS> czajkowski: g'morning!
<czajkowski> BigRedS: not heard from you mister!
<BigRedS> No! I've had one hell of a busy, er, many days... :(
<BigRedS> will be doing that this evening, though. Finally caught up enough to be sorting out my calendar, so once I've no fear of the wrong person walking in midway through I'll be filling in some forms
<czajkowski> any leadership folks here christel AlanBell https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/leadershipenvironment  mate is doing his masters
<Laney> I often lead people to the pub, does that count?
<czajkowski> Laney: yes you too
<czajkowski> you're TB
<czajkowski> or is it ARB
<czajkowski> I mean DMB
<Laney> D to the M to the B
 * Laney makes a gang sign, yo
<AlanBell> BigRedS: yes, the plans were a bit fluid but I will get that sorted out today
<AlanBell> christel: yes, I am a slacker
<BigRedS> AlanBell: cool, - I was just trying to find the date (which is elsewhere) and wondered if that was an omission or a broken something else :)
<theopensourcerer> Curly Wirlies are fab
<christel> AlanBell: i shall think of some appropriate punishment for your slacking
<AlanBell> http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-uk/2006/detail/
<Daviey> AlanBell: sadly, i'll be out of the country :(
<BigRedS> whoop!
<AlanBell> :(
<AlanBell> Daviey: we will wait at the pub until you get back
<Daviey> AlanBell: 19/10 14:30 LHR .. so it's not quite 24hrs.
<Myrtti> here we go then.
<Myrtti> http://www.reddit.com/r/fossworldproblems
 * BigRedS subscribes
<BigRedS> oh, actually, it's not as funny as britishproblems
<BigRedS> I have a couple of Linux machines with no optical drives, and a Windows 7 ISO. Is there a sane way to get Windows installed on one of them (presumably with a USB key)?
<diplo> Yes, with usb key.. I've not done it in a long time but defo doable
<diplo> Think it's a lot easier now actually
<diplo> http://www.intowindows.com/how-to-install-windows-7vista-from-usb-drive-detailed-100-working-guide/
<mungojerry> any photography people ever try a telephoto lens converter to 2x the zoom?
<shauno> have done, haven't done it since.  my el-cheapo 300 is soft enough as it is, and the combination reveals just how much coffee I consume
<mungojerry> i'm taking moon photos shauno
<mungojerry> wondered if it would help
<shauno> can't hurt to try, but there's no way on earth it'll be handheld
<mungojerry> i have a sigma 70-200 atm
<mungojerry> current moon photos are like this: http://ubuntuone.com/2MHfeqb6XImqN4hQwNAl58
<shauno> biggest problems I have with the teleconverter are that they're either soft, or ungodly expensive
<mungojerry> i can't imagine a Â£10 converter is gonna do much for me
<mungojerry> prob not worth it just for a clearer moon pic
<czajkowski> popey: cheeky :p
<popey> :)
<Laney> hurry up afternoon
<Laney> I want to play with my new toy!
<dwatkins> popey: yhis is the video I was talking about earlier: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxVtLGJFaVk - female characters in video games
<dwatkins> s/yhis/this/g
<davmor2> Laney: what new toy would that be
<Laney> new PC
<davmor2> Laney: so play with it already :D  I got a RP I want to have a play on at pyconuk but I've had no time
<Laney> yeah got a bit of work to do sadly :P
<davmor2> Laney: you are testing that the machine can be installed, up and to your working project within and Hour, keep a log of your steps report any bugs and keep all the timings and then it is work :)
<davmor2> czajkowski: so what you up to tomorrow?
<BigRedS> diplo: yeah, I came across that one earlier I think, but not sure what a Linux equivalent of the 'BOOTSECT.EXE /NT60 H:' step would nbe
<Darael> ...Netcraft want to give me an Amazon voucher and a laptop bag for no good reason?  I love being a student!
<mungojerry> Darael, can i get one?
<diplo> BigRedS: No windows box to create it on at all ?
<Darael> mungojerry: The College told me about it.  So I have no idea.
<BigRedS> diplo: nope
<BigRedS> diplo: I could just wait until I have one
<BigRedS> just wondered if I could get away with not
<diplo> BigRedS: unetbootin ?
<diplo> http://www.addictivetips.com/windows-tips/install-windows-7-from-usb-drive-requires-2-simple-steps/
<BigRedS> oooh, I'd assumed unetbootin couldn't do it
 * BigRedS clicks
<BigRedS> coool, I'll try that
<BigRedS> thanks!
<Darael> unetbootin, getting more u every day.  It appears.
<czajkowski> davmor2: working :)
<davmor2> czajkowski: well incase I forget happy birthday :)
<czajkowski> thank you
 * dwatkins hands czajkowski a conical hat and a party popper
<dwatkins> Many happy returns
<czajkowski> good news http://blog.launchpad.net/general/burning-down-critical-bugs
<Laney> mmm purple
<FND> hi - I'm seizing the opportunity to migrate my mom to Ubuntu at last after her Windows system caught a nasty virus
<MooDoo> hello all
<MooDoo> long time no speak
<FND> is there any danger in migrating existing (possibly infected) Thunderbird archives?
<mgdm> if they're infected, there'll be no risk to the Ubuntu system
<FND> worst case, there's some XULRunner vulnerability, right? but seems unlikely that a virus would target that and remain active cross-platform
<mgdm> possibly
<mgdm> you could maybe check out ClamAV and use that from Ubuntu to be sure
<MartijnVdS> â¥ IMAP
<FND> thanks, I'll look into that
<FND> MartijnVdS: yeah, well ... if it was up to me, she'd use mutt
<popey> gord, did you have to dance for beverages in South Korea? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DgtijpUNKGo#!
<gord> heh no, only saw that after i got back, i would of found it and never left if i knew about it there ;)
<dogmatic69> anyone know of alternatives to 'open university' in the UK?
<AlanBell> nom nom nom tomato juice
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: visiting popey? :)
<AlanBell> dogmatic69: if you just want to learn stuff or get a qualification?
<AlanBell> learning stuff -> Kahn accademy
<MartijnVdS> KHAAAAAN
<AlanBell> MartijnVdS: I got popey into it!
 * AlanBell was the trendsetter
<AlanBell> Khan Academy even
<AlanBell> they probably teach you to spell and everyfink
<MartijnVdS> depends on what you want to learn really
<RadiumCat> wot iz u lot bangin about
<pinky-> I've forgotten my name, can I upgrade?
<MartijnVdS> Speaking of learning... ;)
<MartijnVdS> pinky-: your name is *scratchy sound* slim shady?
<dogmatic69> AlanBell: learn stuff and get a piece of paper
<pinky-> MartijnVdS: why am I slim shady?
<dogmatic69> AlanBell: I already have loads of points on kahn accademy
<MartijnVdS> pinky-: the other slim shadies are just imitating
<AlanBell> dogmatic69: I think various universities do correspondence courses and part time things
<dogmatic69> academy*, none for spelling though...
<popey> speaking of which, my tom juice should have arrived today!
<MartijnVdS> "tom juice" sounds worse than "tomato juice"
<MartijnVdS> or dodgier, at least
<popey> better than "Love juice" as i tweeted yesterday!
<MartijnVdS> depends.. is it tom's love juice?
<popey> Mister Lovebuckets incredibly sparkling tonic water
<popey> nobody will get that film reference
<AlanBell> http://static.userland.com/gems/jvb/mr-jolly.mr-jolly
<popey> thats the one
<popey> that is one of my fave films of all time
<popey> i used to watch it over and over, from a VHS tape I recorded it on
<popey> tape snapped eventually, and I fixed it with sellotape
<popey> broke again :)
<AlanBell> try doing that with your modern you tube things!
<AlanBell> kids these days
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: yes mr wing commander
<Bollinger> do AMD graphic cards work well with Ubuntu? I am looking at building a well specced new machine
<Azelphur> Bollinger: depends on what your planning on using the machine for
<Bollinger> software dev. multi screened. big monitors
<AlanBell> as long as you have as many HDMI ports as monitors anything should be fine for that
<MartijnVdS> go with intel
<brobostigon> hislop on the one show. :)
<dogmatic69> intel ftw
<MartijnVdS> unless you really need the performance
<AlanBell> intel works great for me too
<Monotoko> guys, how do I report that an abuse email address isn't working? I keep getting strange confirmation messages in my email box generated from an IP that owns a very spammy looking site. I tried to send an email to the abuse address listed in the WHOIS but it bounced
<popey> Monotoko, i wouldn't bother
<popey> I'd just block/spamtrap it
<Monotoko> popey, it's not sending me email itself... it's generating confirmation messages from other sites which are then sending me email... I blocked anything with the IP address it ("email confirmation generated by xx.xx.xx.xx") but some of them without the IP are still coming through
<Monotoko> and I now have over 100 registrations on more spammy sites I haven't heard of -.-
<Darael> Monotoko: Find out who's hosting it and send to /their/ abuse@ address?  There was a tool to find who was hosting things somewhere...
<Darael> Monotoko: http://whoishostingthis.com
<Azelphur> yay for Facebooks "add an answer" feature: http://i.imgur.com/gAerG.jpg XD
<mgdm> IDGI
<Azelphur> mgdm: XFire put up a vote asking people what the best console is, specifically not PC. Someone used the "Add an answer" feature on the vote to add "PC" as an option, and it's winning the vote xD
<MartijnVdS> \o issyl0
<issyl0> Hi!
<MartijnVdS> you got your name back!
<issyl0> I did!
<issyl0> It's been a while!  ;-)
<MartijnVdS> Busy learning things the official way? :)
<issyl0> Busy full stop!
<issyl0> How've you been?
<MartijnVdS> Busy-ish.. installed wifi at a local car dealership
<MartijnVdS> so people charging their electric cars can use the internet while they wait
<MartijnVdS> and helped my brothers with a beer/wort cooler
<MartijnVdS> (using an Arduino and a Pi)
<AlanBell> MartijnVdS: ooh, that was you!
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: what, the beer or the wifi? :)
<AlanBell> http://brewpi.com/ this thing?
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: we built its predecessor
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: well, a clone
<AlanBell> ah, nice
<AlanBell> issyl0: coming to the Qantal release party in a couple of weeks?
<issyl0> MartijnVdS: Cool!  :-)
<issyl0> AlanBell: I've been hideously out of the loop with everything.
<issyl0> AlanBell: So I probably should!
<issyl0> Indeed, yeah, I should.
<AlanBell> you should!
<MartijnVdS> you should!
<issyl0> OK.
<AlanBell> 18th, in London
<MartijnVdS> drink one for my birthday as well :)
<issyl0> OK, that works.
 * MartijnVdS will be 0x20 on the 18th
<issyl0> I can do that then.
<issyl0> MartijnVdS: Woo!
<Neoti_Laptop> hey people.... been a while... hows peeps....
<MartijnVdS> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmOTpIVxji8
<dogmatic69> I broke my pc :/
<brobostigon> nos da everyone, sleep well.
<popey> dogmatic69, oh dear
<bigcalm> Evenin'
<popey> pip pip
<jimbo_> can anyone help me with a wwan issue?
<Darael> Someone may be able to, but we won't know for sure until thou sayest what the issue actually is!
<Darael> Also at this time of night #ubuntu may be a better bet.  -uk is getting rather less active right about now.
<jimbo_> hmmm, ok my wwan card isn't showing up in modem-manager, ifconfig, or iwconfig.  why is this?
<Darael> Lack of drivers?  Does it show in lspci?  If so, is there anything about what drivers are in use, or it being unclaimed?
<jimbo_> its in the lsusb output
<jimbo_> and in the lsmod output
<jimbo_> let me check to see if the drivers are in use
<jimbo_> Bus 001 Device 002: ID 1410:a014 Novatel Wireless
<jimbo_> that's all that I see there for the wwan card
<jimbo_> nothing listed in lspci
<Darael> No, if it's USB-connected it won't.
<jimbo_> if it helps it's an embedded card
<jimbo_> qcserial               12822  0
<jimbo_> usb_wwan               20491  1 qcserial
<jimbo_> usbserial              47077  2 qcserial,usb_wwan
<jimbo_> above is what is loaded in lsmod
<dogmatic69> anyone know why my fonts are strange? http://i.imgur.com/EBBVu.png
<Darael> jimbo_: Which Ubuntu release art running?
<jimbo_> 12.04 LTS
<jimbo_> don't know how to do the red text you're using
<Darael> Red text?  I shouldn't be using red text.
<Darael> wait.
<Darael> Ah.  It's thy client; because I started with thy nick, it sees it as a highlight and brings it to thy attention.
<jimbo_> dogmatic69:  what's strange about the text?  i'm missing something
<dogmatic69> jimbo_: that is not the usual font, its crap
<jimbo_> dogmatic69:  i know this is a stupid suggestion but have you tried changing the font via Settings?
<dogmatic69> http://i.imgur.com/9LOpm.png
<dogmatic69> jimbo_: it was not like this a few hours ago. something has happened to nvidia I think.
<jimbo_> dogmatic69:  ok well all i can offer you is luck because I've never had to use any nVidia drivers
<jimbo_> dogmatic69:  I know you can try installing the "restricted drivers" package from software center
<dogmatic69> that is why I use
<dogmatic69> have been since 12.04b
<Darael> jimbo_: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1649139 is about the only resource I can find on that USB ID set.  Got there from a bug back in Oneiric...
<jimbo_> Darael: I have the same laptop
<jimbo_> Darael: the link as to how to fix 3g is broken
<jimbo_> blah
<jimbo_> its the one non-working thing on this lappy
<Darael> I'm afraid I don't know.  I have no personal experience with it.
<Darael> Try #ubuntu instead?  It's a lot busier, there's a good chance somebody in there will know.
<jimbo_> Well you've been more help than the folks over at #ubuntu... i was told to quit asking the same question
<jimbo_> one person did try to help but he thought i had meant the wlan card instead of the wwan
<jimbo_> Darael: what IRC client are you using?
<Darael> jimbo_: irssi.  In screen.  Although I mean to move from screen to tmux at some point.
<BigRedS> I did that, it horribly broke my muscle memory for no discernible advantage so I moved back to screen
<popey> what laptop is it jimbo_ ?
<popey> is it by any chance a toshiba or dell?
<jimbo_> popey: CR-48
<popey> ahhh
<jimbo_> lovely, right?
<popey> i guess this is you... http://www.computersupportforums.com/showthread.php?tid=108396
<popey> http://securit.se/en/2012/03/guide-sa-har-far-du-gobi-2000-wireless-modem-att-fungera-ubuntu-12-04/ seen that?
<jimbo_> yes it is
<popey> hmm, wrong modem
<jimbo_> first link is me, checking 2nd link now
<popey> never seen those devices, sorry
<jimbo_> yea the "driver" im using is a Novetel driver
<popey> http://www.chromeoslounge.com/cr-48-chrome-notebook/807-cr48-gobi2000-use-other-oses.html
<popey> another possible thread
<popey> sorry, I'm just googling, I dont know the answer, not tried any of these
<jimbo_> its ok i've been googling for awhile myself and at one point using something called ChrUbuntu the card works
<jimbo_> however i was still using the ChromeOS kernel, and to use that kernel i have to have ChromeOS instaled
<jimbo_> the thing about these laptops is that it came with a 16GB ssd as the hard drive
<jimbo_> not much room to play with
<popey> is the cr-48 any good?
<popey> good enough with chromeos?
<jimbo_> thats a tricky question
<jimbo_> yes and no
<jimbo_> it's wicked fast, though it is "limited" with ChromeOS
<jimbo_> as in i can't install/run native linux apps
<jimbo_> i have to use googles proprietary apps
<jimbo_> and if have no internet connection then the laptop itself is a paperweight
<popey> sure
<popey> but if you had home wifi or tethered to phone its okay
<jimbo_> sure
<popey> do the CR-48's get software updates like the new ones?
<jimbo_> everything was done "in the cloud"
<jimbo_> yes
<popey> yeah, nice concept
<popey> be ideal for my mum
<popey> she basically lives in gmail, iplayer, youtube, facebook
<jimbo_> well the only drawback I had to using chromeos was the lack of standalone apps for video chat
<popey> you have to use hangouts basically?
<jimbo_> pretty much
<jimbo_> if your mom lives in the cloud then any chromebook would be good for her the cr-48 is a little outdated now and considering it's a prototype computer it may not be a good choice for her
<popey> yeah
#ubuntu-uk 2012-10-03
<christel> morning
<MartijnVdS> \o
 * christel does a little dance with MartijnVdS 
<MartijnVdS> \\o o// \o/
 * MartijnVdS looks at the rain radar.. I need to be quick if I want to get to work with dry clothes... :|
<christel> hehe
<MooDoo> morning al
<AlanBell> morning all
<elfy> morning AlanBell
<Myrtti> mmm tea
<christel> one of my clients emailed me and said "Hey Christel, you might appreciate this really useful site for chest films"
<christel> so my early morning brain went "oooh tits *click*"
<christel> http://i.imgur.com/rEDij.jpg this was the first chest i saw...
<christel> i then realised they werent trying to send me Happy Morning Tits but actually work-related stuff :(
<popey> *blink*
<christel> (oh it is totally SFW)
 * AlanBell makes christel some coffee
<AlanBell> early morning brains need coffee
<mattt> tired too :(
<christel> mmmcoffee
<christel> yes
<christel> i have been working since 4am
<AlanBell> I just managed to burn the bottom of a fried egg before the top was cooked
<j0nr> am confused.. eyeD3 displays different values for ID3 tags than lltag does....
<j0nr> i just used lltag to re-tag an mp3 but eyeD3 still shows the old tags
<diplo> Morning all
<JamesTai1> Good morning all! :)
 * SuperMatt shakes a fist at cacti
 * Laney was impressed yesterday when his new machine booted straight into the old Ubuntu installation, without problem
<popey> got the new box all built then Laney ?
<Laney> yep
<Laney> no blood
<popey> you should benchmark it
<Laney> the only dubious thing is that the SSD doesn't fit into my case
<Laney> so it's just sitting in a drive bay :(
<popey>  time perl -e 'for($i=0;$i<1e8;$i++) { }'
<popey> run that :)
<Laney> I got a 7.7 on the Windows Experience Indexâ¢Â©Â®
<popey> http://www.hants.lug.org.uk/wiki/HugoRandomBenchmark  add to the benchmark list :)
<AlanBell> need a multicore version of that
<gord> run it in multiple terminals at once!
<popey> i7 does turbo though
<popey> so it still should be fast
<popey> one day we'll have to make it 1e9 :)
<Laney> 2.958 total
<popey> you win!
<AlanBell> so how would you get it to fork 10 of them at once and time it until the last one finishes?
<AlanBell> or 24 of them for example :)
 * Laney is running y-crunchers
<Laney> y-cruncher
<gord> sounds like a cereal
<diplo> I think it's time for me to save for an upgrade, what ball park figure did you spend laney?
<Laney> just over 1k
<diplo> Hmm, bigger than I can afford, I do remember you probably specced it a tad higher than i would have though
<diplo> :)
<AlanBell> I am puzzled by it running faster in a kvm guest than on the host
<Laney> yeah, well, I tend to keep my machines for a long time
<Laney> I'll probably have this for 5 years or so
<diplo> Mine are 5-6 years old
<diplo> I used to upgrade them every year if not more often
<diplo> Then I had 2 children :D
<Laney> yeah, they're much higher spec than your computer
<diplo> heh
<gord> AlanBell, significantly faster? in a kvm guest pure computation should be equal so any deviation can usually be put down to outside sources
<AlanBell> real 0m6.390s in the guest vs real 0m7.424s in the host
<AlanBell> and it is consistent and reproduceable on several machines
<AlanBell> maybe a bit of variability in that actually, but certainly there is no performance penalty for being in a guest for single core operations
<Laney> started playing portal 2 last night
 * Laney is living that xkcd
<gord> heh, went to install google drive on my ipad, the screenshot uses the ubuntu font
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<bigcalm> Anybody set-up an IPSec server in linux?
<czajkowski> aloha
<awilkins> Stupid question ; anyone know how to make a clone of a git branch such that all the references are identical - ie, the new clone has the same remotes, not the repo you just cloned as remotes
<awilkins> ASide from cp -r
<einonm> awilkins: I think whenever I've done that, I've just edited the .git/config file afterwards. There is probably an easier way - maybe #git would help if no one else here can?
<awilkins> Maybe... Google isn't helping much, too many articles with "git, clone, remote" in them
<xnox> awilkins: git clone --mirror
<xnox> you may also want --bare
<awilkins> xnox, --mirror implies --bare
<awilkins> But you have provoked me to look at --mirror again
<awilkins> Shame there's no "not bare" option
<awilkins> The answer seems to be...
<xnox> awilkins: ah, ok. is that what you wanted? alternative is to write .git/config where fetch=refs/heads/*:refs/heads/* (which is what mirror does)
<awilkins> mkdir new-clone
<awilkins> git clone --mirror old-clone new-clone/.git
<xnox> but you'll want to fetch tags as well with fetch=refs/tags/*:refs/tags/*
<awilkins> cd new-clone
<awilkins> git config --local --bool core.bare false
<awilkins> git checkout
<awilkins> Not a one-liner but you end up with what I wanted
<xnox> awilkins:  a branch deleted on the remote host, will not be deleted locally.
<xnox> (NB!)
<xnox> =)
<awilkins> Doesn't clone the SVN metadata
<xnox> awilkins: no. it clones object store only & branch ref.
<xnox> awilkins: no. it clones object store only & branch refs
<xnox> awilkins: you will need to either have svn metadata in the commit messages or tarball the whole repo and make it available for download.
<xnox> in the former case you will need to "re-initialize" in the later you will be good to go.
<davmor2> Morning all
<mungojerry> this may sound silly but how do i configure a channel to connect in xchat? it's bizarre
<mungojerry> it doesn't seem to have an accounts section
<popey> Xchat -> Network list
<popey> Choose a network -> edit
<DJones> Click edit on the network and there is a favourite channels
<popey> there's a "Favorite channels" where you list then
<popey> #foo,#bar,#baz
<bigcalm> Also, you can right-click on a channel name that you are already connected to and select 'Add to Favorites'
<mungojerry> thanks popey i missed the favourite channels bit
<mungojerry> cool tip bigcalm ta
<bigcalm> You're welcome
 * bigcalm returns to shouting at IPSec
<mungojerry> another one...how does one move the notifications in gnome?
<mungojerry> to top of screen
<mungojerry> (might not get an answer in here)
<YaManicKill> gnome shell?
<YaManicKill> I don't think you can
<mungojerry> yeah
<mungojerry> oh :(
<YaManicKill> http://askubuntu.com/questions/80942/pin-notifications-to-toppanel-in-gnome-shell
<YaManicKill> my bad, I was wrong, there is an extension apparently
<YaManicKill> oh wait...ignore that, I didn't read it properly
<mungojerry> sweet
<YaManicKill> is that what you were wanting, or do you mean the popup notifications? or the other notification icons like dropbox etc?
<mungojerry> i mean when someone mentions me in irc
<YaManicKill> oh ok yeah let me investigate more :-P
<YaManicKill> how about this? https://extensions.gnome.org/extension/243/shell-osd/
<YaManicKill> I'd love to go back to Gnome-shell sometime...but the bug that stops me using it is still there I think
<YaManicKill> not being able to have multiple x-screens
<bigcalm> !info freeswan
<lubotu3`> Package freeswan does not exist in precise
<bigcalm> :(
<diplo> What are you using ipsec for bigcalm ?
<mungojerry> YaManicKill, i have 2 screens but in twinview
<NET||abuse> so was going to setup my microserver lastnight
<bigcalm> diplo: connecting iDigi devices to a main server
<NET||abuse> turns out i need an additional sata connector to be able to put a drive in the optical drive bay
<NET||abuse> darnit
<mungojerry> need to remember how to restore the minimise button
<YaManicKill> mungojerry: yeah, my problem is I have 4 monitors over 2 graphics cards. And with nvidia, you can't use more than 2 monitors on twinview
<mungojerry> i'm using it to see if the cinnamon bug is manifested in gnome shell
<bigcalm> diplo: the main server will eventually have a hardware firewall and IPSec VPN. But for my own testing, I need to set up IPSec
<YaManicKill> and you can't have multiple graphics cards using the same xscreen.
<diplo> We use IPSec vpns, but as part of SMEServer ( yuck ) it works but can be a pita!
<popey> NET||abuse, moved my microserver to another room, so peaceful in my den now
<YaManicKill> NET||abuse: you don't have another sata cable just lying around? what sort of geek are you? ;-)
<bigcalm> diplo: I'm new to getting things working. Have less than a day left now :)
<bigcalm> Lets see if I can get it working on the Debian 6.0 server instead of Ubuntu 12.04
<diplo> aha, they sound like my old dead lines
<NET||abuse> yeh, just remembered where my geek case is, full of innards from previous systems
<NET||abuse> just moved house so my bits are in boxes everywhere
<YaManicKill> now that's more like it :-P
<bigcalm> Nope, it's not in Debian either. Tarballs it is!
<NET||abuse> still a bit discombobulated from the move :)
<YaManicKill> right...time for some haskell programming
<NET||abuse> one thing i don't have is a keyboard :P
<mungojerry> can someone mention my name pls?
<YaManicKill> mungojerry: bonjour
<mungojerry> works sweet
<NET||abuse> migth need a roll of cat5e to try and run the mungojerry to through a cable hole in the wall to the study
<YaManicKill> mungojerry: awesome, I'll have to try that next time I use gnome-shell again
<bigcalm> !info openswan
<lubotu3`> openswan (source: openswan): Internet Key Exchange daemon. In component universe, is optional. Version 1:2.6.37-1 (precise), package size 1047 kB, installed size 2562 kB
<bigcalm> Aha, that's a better option. Considering the last release of freeswan was in 2004
<mungojerry> what's the point of the top bar in chrome that only shows one app running?
<mungojerry> s/chrome/gnome shell/
<mungojerry> just shows the app in focus..pretty pointless
<mungojerry> this one's nice https://extensions.gnome.org/extension/327/axe-menu/
<mungojerry> quicker than unity for me too
<YaManicKill> looks interesting
<mungojerry> struggling to get checkgmail to appear so far
<davmor2> czajkowski: happy birthday!!!!!!!!!!!
<czajkowski> davmor2: thank you
<davmor2> czajkowski: why are you trying to report a bug on skype to ubuntu they can't fix it
<czajkowski> yes but it should at least tell your what packages are not installed
<czajkowski> some sort of debugging
<czajkowski> some information
<czajkowski> not nothing and then close
<czajkowski> irksome!
<davmor2> czajkowski: pick on evan
<czajkowski> he's mid sprint
<davmor2> czajkowski: when you're in the office next, he'll be pretending to be a desinger
<czajkowski> lol
<popey> czajkowski, on 12.10? how did you get the dialog to come up? did skype crash or did you "ubuntu-bug skype"?
<czajkowski> popey: skype crashed mid call with my ssister on video
<czajkowski> no vide and no crash
<czajkowski> as soon as both videos are in use it bombs out
<popey> nice
<popey> start skype in a terminal and do it again, see if you get an error message?
<czajkowski> popey: skype - anything ?
<popey> actually...
<popey> in ~/.Skype
<popey> create a directory called Logs
<popey> (both case sensitive)
<popey> then restart skype
<popey> it should create a timestamp logfile in there
<popey> (which is useless, because it's a binary format)
<popey> but you can then report the issue to skype themselves
<czajkowski> ahh
<NET||abuse> with skype i usually createa  directory in home for each skype identity i have
<davmor2> czajkowski: https://support.skype.com/en-gb/ is the place to start looking to file the issue with skype too
<NET||abuse> then you can create a shortcut on your desktop with --dbpath=~/.Skype_myskypuser
<NET||abuse> czajkowski: so if there's some options your flicked around in your profile, create a new dbpath directory and launch skype with this new directory and see if it also does the same thing
<NET||abuse> popey: good call on the Logs directory, didn't know bout htat
<czajkowski> NET||abuse: ack
<popey> handy NET||abuse
<popey> i only have one skype "identity" :)
<NET||abuse> ah, with each job or group i work with i tend to create a new identity
<NET||abuse> have my personal skype and my work skype
<NET||abuse> and i log into both simulatniously
<czajkowski> ah one of me is more than enough for anyone :)
<NET||abuse> I had skype for contract project management (outsourced developers) then there was skype for company x i was in
<NET||abuse> kept things organised
<NET||abuse> add me on skype :) user:"quicksmart"
<NET||abuse> czajkowski: must meet up with you at a meetup group soon, been about 2 years since i've had a pint with you. Ilug, or PHP group in dublin
<NET||abuse> Now that i'm in London :)
<czajkowski> NET||abuse: ah well if you're in London no excuse
<czajkowski> saying that i leave tomorrow and will be back on Nov 2nd
<NET||abuse> actually the last time was at Barcamp i think was it in Solas at the afters
<NET||abuse> some bar on camden street anyway :)
<NET||abuse> Well i'm an Old street round about guy now
<NET||abuse> going to php meetup tomorrow
<NET||abuse> in the goog campus
<popey> AlanBell, if you want to do some dogfooding on our latest stuff.. ppa:unity-team/ppa
<mungojerry> ah, found a mousewheel zoom app for gnoem shell, all is sweet
<NET||abuse> mungojerry: ooh, really, i'd like that
<mungojerry> https://github.com/tobiasquinn/gnome-shell-mousewheel-zoom NET||abuse
<NET||abuse> cheers :)
<mungojerry> read the readme, add the repo, run mousewheel zoom and alt scroll away!
<mungojerry> works really nice
<NET||abuse> that's one i miss from compiz
<NET||abuse> ahh, debian, i'm stuck on fedora till i geet a chance to re-instlal
<NET||abuse> I was tempted to go from F16 to F17 but i think ubuntu is calling me back :)
<NET||abuse> I want to redeem my humble bundle keys in the software center
<mungojerry> i'm sure there's a package for fed
<NET||abuse> that and steam is due out and likely only for ubuntu first
<NET||abuse> ;)
<NET||abuse> brb
<mungojerry> http://www.webupd8.org/2011/09/compiz-like-mousewheel-zoom-tool-for.html
<mungojerry> NET||abuse, fedora instructions
<czajkowski> folks I do need your help, and the post explains it https://plus.google.com/102921374554385564572/posts/2chyKLhJiyR
<diplo> Done :)
<czajkowski> diplo: thanks
<diplo> Must remember to grab the precise iso tonight to reinstall my home pc
<diplo> Still on 9.04 :D
<AlanBell> diplo: grap the quantal one and report bugs
<diplo> Is it fairly stable, need to do a load of web design for a charity
<diplo> ?
<AlanBell> even better, hit ctrl+s at the ubiquity screen and do it without eyes
<AlanBell> I am running it on my work laptop
<diplo> Cool, grabbing now
<AlanBell> rock solid and unity is almost completely unbroken now
<diplo> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/current/
<diplo> Best to use that ?
<AlanBell> yup
<diplo> OK, on it's way down
 * diplo hopes AlanBell is right :D
<diplo> popey: Have you tried xbmcbuntu on your revo ?
<diplo> Debating about trying this tonight
<diplo> http://www.xbmcfreak.nl/xbmcbuntu-12-04-with-pre-frodo-mid-september-release/
<popey> no
<popey> i just use xbmc on top of ubuntu
<popey> I'm not one for fiddled about with distros
<diplo> heh, I'm still on 9.04 running eden on mine
<diplo> Just a lot of improvements in the xbmcbuntu it seems
<diplo> So thought I'd give it a try
<mungojerry> anyone know where to get a tv stand like they use in schools?
<mungojerry> the wheeled stand
<davmor2> mungojerry: ikea might staples might
<mungojerry> i'm in a wasteland round here, think i might default to amazon
<mattt> mungojerry: yeah, i know where
<mattt> it involves a time machine tho
<mattt> since no one uses those any more :)
<mungojerry> orly?
<mungojerry> i see them used a lot
<mungojerry> because you can't always fix big screens to walls
<mattt> got a picture?
<mungojerry> or you want a mobile solution
<mattt> i'm sure you can get those at ikea, but they're quite low to the ground
<mungojerry> i found what i wanted http://www.amazon.co.uk/FS1031-Exhibition-Display-Trolley-Mounting/dp/B005ZBI2IQ/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1349265462&sr=8-3
<mattt> that is ugly
<mattt> where are you putting this tv?
<mungojerry> in an office
<mattt> oh
<mungojerry> and sometimes another office
<mattt> then that's not ugly
<mungojerry> nope ;)
<mattt> that'd look terrible at home :)
<mungojerry> i don't have a posh telly at home
<mattt> and i'm all for practicality
<popey> what is a "posh" telly?
<mungojerry> lCD
<mungojerry> ..something with hdmi...
<mungojerry> i have a crt
<gord> a telly where the remote control named "Jeeves"
<mungojerry> lol
<mungojerry> cannot get gnome shell to not say "unavailable" in chat
<mungojerry> wonder if i have to install empathy
<popey> our remote is called 'frank'
<popey> all of them
<mattt> your wife's called rank?
<mattt> *frank
 * mattt retracts
 * mattt shows himself out
<popey> Frank Zappa
<mungojerry> i'm kind of seeing linus' point about the extension nightmare with gnome shell
<popey> gord, are the yellow sweets sour?
<gord> thats the thing, not really no
<BigRedS>  mungojerry is that the one where every time you upgrade gnome you have to edit a bunch of extensions to make them work again?
<BigRedS> that's a big bit of the reason I've started using Unity again
<mungojerry> yeah, i'm expecting that will happen
<popey> the picture of the mans face suggests they might be
<BigRedS> that and Unity losing a lot of the insane
<gord> also, popey is banned from puns
<mungojerry> BigRedS, its the small things in unity that i cant change that bug me
<BigRedS> yeah, most of mine are now changeable as of 12.10
<mungojerry> buttons on the right? movable launcher?
<BigRedS> even if it did take me *weeks* to find the desktop size thing
<mungojerry> proper global menu disable is coming right?
<popey> not in this release
<mungojerry> i sort of have GS running like gnome2 ....sort of
<BigRedS> nah, crazy alt-tab, launcher that hardly ever opens, almost-analogue for Gnome's start-button behaviour
<BigRedS> most importantly, if I use alt-tab it always takes me to the window I asked for
<BigRedS> I am amused, though, that now that widescreen monitors are ubiquitous, both Gnome and Unity keep a largely useless unhiding bar of about 16px at the top of the screen occupied
<mungojerry> GS still has a super annoying bug where the screen with the screen unlock dialog is not shown (screen remains black) so you have to type your password blindly into the computer
<mungojerry> (nvidia with 2 screens)
<BigRedS> ooh, I never had that, I'm running nvidia with 2 screens
<mungojerry> GS?
<BigRedS> I was
<BigRedS> this was on Ubuntu; is that where you're running it?
<BigRedS> (this was also a while ago, early 12.04 beta)
<mungojerry> lock screen ,come back 10 mins later and can't wake up other screen which the password box is always on
<mungojerry> running 12.04
<BigRedS> hmm, weird
<mungojerry> yeah, pretty annoying in open plan office
<BigRedS> yeah, I can imagine
<mungojerry> hmm empathy doesn't connect to my jabber server :S
<mungojerry> fail
<BigRedS> empathy's not supposed to *work*
<BigRedS> Gnome appears to be favouring some IM-built-in-to-the-DE thingy, and everyone else just uses Pidgin
<BigRedS> which is a shame, because those pop-up thingies that empathy and gnome3 do for replying to IM is _so_ useful
<davmor2> BigRedS: gnome are using empathy it just has a gnomeshell plugin
<BigRedS> davmor2: ah yeah, I just reread where I got that from. They're moving towards configuring it in gnome shell (and not in empathy's own menu hierarchy)
<davmor2> BigRedS: which is the same as in Quantal you use online accounts to set empathy clients up
<BigRedS> heh, yeah, something like that
<BigRedS> I didn't understand what it was asking so used Pidgin
<BigRedS> especially since Unity doesn't do those popups
<davmor2> BigRedS: it does do the popups you just trigger emapthy to interact with them.  done deliberately too, to make you more productive apparently :)
<BigRedS> ooh! How do I 'trigger empathy' to make them work?
<popey> woohoo! got my power monitor working again
<popey> http://popey.com/house/
<davmor2> BigRedS: So what I mean is you click on empathy contact in the indicator menu, but you should see the meassages popup top right
<BigRedS> Ahh, It's particularly being able to interact with the popup that I'm after.
<BigRedS> Well, I'll have a fiddle with it anyway
<davmor2> BigRedS: you might be able to trigger something in the bowls of dconf-editor maybe
<mungojerry> discovered my empathy jabber issue is a WONTFIX
<mungojerry> so i'm confined to pidgin
<BigRedS> davmor2: ah yeah, pidgin's workable enough that I'll probably never get round to looking. And Empathy's really rather buggy even in g-s
<BigRedS> mungojerry: which bug's that?
<diplo> popey: Can you remind me what you use for that, would like to buy a unit as mine doesn't have any connection options at present
<diplo> Using 900watts fairly constantly!
<popey> its a currentcost
<diplo> thats it ta
<issyl0> Hello.
<BigRedS> Hello!
<Oli> popey: ~1KW seems like loads for daytime idling... what's turned on?
<Oli> For comparison we're using ~450Wh for me on my desktop (beefy), 3 4W LED GU10 bulbs in the office, TV et al on standby, standard kitchen jazz and about 20 idling switching power supplies
<Oli> And well over half that is this desktop (i7, nvidia card, two 24" ccrd monitors
<AlanBell> is it really using that much or is that just what the sticker on the side of the PSU says?
<andylockran> hey guys
<andylockran> if I run file_get_contents($url) from one server, it works fine - but from another, it generates a 408 timeout
<diplo> Nothing in the logs of the second server andylockran ?
<andylockran> diplo - from my local machine it works
<diplo> /var/log/apache2/error.log or access.log or even messages ?
<andylockran> from a client's server, I've done a strace, and it seems to hang and timeout
<diplo> yeah so it seems it's an apache(webservice) issue
<diplo> ?
<diplo> On the client
<andylockran> then on the $url - it returns a 408 in that error log
<diplo> No other details in the any of the logs ?
<KrimZon_2> does anyone know how to get ecryptfs to mount another user's home automatically at login?
<diplo> I'm guessing not a public url we could try and reproduce here for you ?
<andylockran> it is a public url
<KrimZon_2> I can do it manually, but I've no idea how to set that stuff up for ecryptfs to do it automatically at login
<andylockran> www.andyloughran.co.uk/test.html
<andylockran> it's the clientside php that's failing on the clients server
<andylockran> basically, file_get_contents() is timing out, and I've no idea why
<andylockran> but can't see a firewall on the machine, but think it's an openvz container, with the host controlled by a third party
<andylockran> but the thing that confuses me is that wget works fine, so it only appears to be php that's blocked
<AlanBell> release party is all a bit more confirmed now
<diplo> That's what I was saying earlier, is to look at clients server logs but I guess you don't have access ?
<AlanBell> http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-uk/2006/detail/
<andylockran> I have full access at both ends (to the VM)
<andylockran> http://pastebin.com/VDPTw3As
<andylockran> that's what the strace shows
<diplo> Sorry got the wrong end of the stick, i thought you were trying to get http://clientsside/test.html and that wasn't working, not php to test.html on yours
<diplo> side=site*
<andylockran> ah, ok
<diplo> Just thinking now :P
<andylockran> yeah, so the client site does some php fopen shizzle to get xml feed & things like google maps
<andylockran> and basically my problem is that php is no longer able to access http streams - and I haven't the foggiest why
<andylockran> it's still registered streams
<diplo> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/3488425/php-ini-file-get-contents-external-url
<diplo> Could be this ?
<diplo> http://www.php.net/manual/en/filesystem.configuration.php#ini.allow-url-fopen
<diplo> brb
<andylockran> allow_url_fopen = On
<andylockran> in both /etc/php5/apache2/php.ini and /etc/php5/cli/php.ini
<andylockran> I've checked the UserAgent too.. having no long
<andylockran> this is hard :(
<diplo> Tried using curl instead ?
<BigRedS> is outbound http banned?
<BigRedS> we do that
<diplo> wget used http as well though and that works i think BigRedS ?
<BigRedS> test with telnet or something. Or a lower-level sockety thing in PHP. I don't know how to do that in PHP
<andylockran> wget works fine
<BigRedS> ah, less likely, though
<diplo> Tried fsockopen as well andylockran ?
<andylockran> http://dpaste.com/809407/ telnet works <<
<SuperMatt> oooh, a release party that I might be able to go to!
<SuperMatt> at least maybe for an hour
<popey> Oli, laptop, desktop, cable modem, 2xswitch, server, disk array, 2xfridge/freezer, 4xalarm clocks, sip phone, printer, pvr...
<diplo> Fridge Freezers + disk array I reckon
<diplo> php error logs enabled on the client machine andylockran and set to strict/all ?
<diplo> nowt from that ?
<popey> oh, slow cooker is on too :)
<andylockran> hmm:  BigRedS fsockopen works
<andylockran> fopen fails..
<andylockran> that's annoying
<diplo> Everything i read comes back to allow_url_fopen
<diplo> or urlencode ( but i don't think it's that as it's a simple page )
<diplo> Checked phpinfo to make it has loaded that setting ?
<andylockran> yeah, I've checked it loads and even set it at the top of my script to doubly confirm
<diplo> :(
<diplo> Very odd
<andylockran> yeah
<diplo> Have you tried a seperate php file with just the basics in ?
<diplo> No other stuff at all
<andylockran> yeah, that's how I've been testing it
<diplo> oh :(
<andylockran> just a simple file_get_contents("www.andyloughran.co.uk/test.html");
<diplo> And php error logs are outputting nothing ?
<andylockran> they output a php Warning, but php seems to internally timeout
<andylockran> http://dpaste.com/809412/
<andylockran> there's the script
<andylockran> I ran it through strace to see what extra info I could pick up
<andylockran> see: http://www.php.net/manual/en/function.file-get-contents.php#106969
<diplo> Another thing I keep reading is, don't use file_Get_contents use cURL it's about 20x faster
<andylockran> but the strace shows it is sending the Host:
<diplo> Hmm, not sure what else to suggest
<AlanBell> where do wallpapers live? I had /usr/share/wallpapers in my head but that isn't right
<AlanBell> nvm /usr/share/backgrounds
 * xnox wants to see a slick high-contrast quetzal origami wallpaper =)
<xnox> instead of purple-orange mish-mash =)
<BigRedS> It is nice when the desktop background doesn't just look like a dodgy monitor or vga cable
<SuperMatt> I'm quite fond of the quantal one
<SuperMatt> it's better than the other salads
<jacobw> i don't know it isn't just an aubergine background with a white ubuntu logo
<jacobw> clean is better for the default look imo
<dogmatic69> That new Bloodhound car is mad. F1 engine just to pump the fuel!
<SuperMatt> apple was critiised for it's stars background a few years ago, because it was a bit dull
<SuperMatt> jobs said basically "you're going to change it, so we didn't want to give you anything you anything amazing"
<MartijnVdS> He had bad grammar then?
<SuperMatt> that was my bad typing
<AlanBell> hmm, an upgrade to precise overwrote the sudoers field :(
<AlanBell> hmm bother
<popey> no backup?
<AlanBell> well it is a minor issue really
<AlanBell> it is a KVM guest and I can't get to a grub prompt
<AlanBell> can't get into it to hold shift quick enough, it boots too fast
<popey> mount the filesystem?
<AlanBell> yeah, live cd iso I think
<popey> loopback style
<popey> no i mean from the host
<methuselah> msg nickserv indetify bulling1
<AlanBell> yay that worked, thanks popey
<AlanBell> http://equivocation.org/node/107 is how to loopback mount a kvm image
<AlanBell> you might want to think about a new password methuselah
<methuselah> i am a firm believer in the hive account
<methuselah> i.e. numerous users using the same account
<methuselah> increases attributibility of information in the data-mining era
<methuselah> i share my passwords wherever possible
<AlanBell> how very web 3.0
<methuselah> often shrouding the leak as a mistake
<methuselah> thanks for your concern
<methuselah> Alan. Maybe we can talk about jquery?
<methuselah> and Uncaught RangeError: Maximum call stack size exceeded
<methuselah> that is more of an issue for me right now
<AlanBell> sounds like you are recursing too deep or something
<popey> http://popey.com/house/
<popey> oven on.. off.. on.. off..
<MartijnVdS> cool
<MartijnVdS> well, hot actually
<popey> yummy bbq chicken
<popey> hope its hot!
<davmor2> popey: probably not the oven was off then on then off then on
<ging> where do fonts live?
<MartijnVdS> ging: in /usr/share/fonts/ of course!
<MartijnVdS> ging: or ~/.fonts maybe
<MartijnVdS> yes
<MartijnVdS> ~/.fonts as well
<ging> yay i have fonts
<MartijnVdS> grep '<dir>' /etc/fonts/fonts.conf  /etc/fonts/conf.d/* :)
<ging> they don't look right though
<MartijnVdS> blame popey
<popey> yes, do that
<ging> it's not his font
<popey> What the font!?
<ging> it's a font called open dyslexic which is meant to help me make sense
<ging> but it didn't work
<ging> it's not mono spaced
<MartijnVdS> use comic sans ;)
<MartijnVdS> I've heard it helps with dyslexia sometimes
<directhex> oh, i read about a super dyslexia friendly font today
<directhex> where was that?
<directhex> http://www.gizmag.com/font-app-dyslexia/24375/
<ging> directhex: that was the one i was trying, but it doesn't work well in a terminal because it's not momo spaced
<MartijnVdS> momo spaced? http://www.momo-amsterdam.nl/momouk.html
<ging> *mono
<davmor2> ging: no I think it needs to be mono spaced separately I don't know how far down the line he is with creating it but it looks like a good font for reading
<dutchie> o/
<Azelphur> http://www.reddit.com/r/fossworldproblems found this, figure folks here will find this amusing :D
<MartijnVdS> hahah :) some good ones on there
<Azelphur> xD
<Azelphur> there was one on there the other day "I'm trying to write a project in python but one library only works in python 2 and the other only works in python 3"
<Azelphur> I know that feeling xD
<MartijnVdS> "Right in the feels", as they say
<Azelphur> indeed
<locodir-user> hi
<AlanBell> hi
<locodir-user> does anyone know how to do yahoo/msn video chat in linux?
<AlanBell> pidgin or empathy probably do it
<locodir-user> thats great
<AlanBell> dunno about video though
<AlanBell> google hangouts seem to be the way forward for video
<locodir-user> ok
<locodir-user> never tried though. I have recently installed linux
<AlanBell> excellent
<locodir-user> I am not an expert, but sometimes bit frustrated when I cannot use the software i previously used
<davmor2> AlanBell: emapthy does video whether it works with windows clients is entirely hit and miss though
<AlanBell> yeah, there is loads of new things to ise though
<AlanBell> use even
<locodir-user> yes indeed
<brobostigon> there was an msn client, that several years ago, did msn video, however, i think due to msn protocol changes, that became impossible again.
<locodir-user> oh
<AlanBell> I don't have any friends that use windows
<AlanBell> problem solved \o/
<brobostigon> locodir-user: due to the msn protocol being closed, it has had to be reverse engineered.
<davmor2> brobostigon: if I am right then it is using the same protocol as facebook and googlechat
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: family then?
<brobostigon> davmor2: theose use jabber/xmpp
<locodir-user> it is good to have Linux and I am spreading the news. but, it is a bit problematic when u cant use the same services
<AlanBell> parents are on ubuntu
<davmor2> brobostigon: precisely there was a big hoohar about it a while ago
<brobostigon> davmor2: i doub it very much, microsoft, will have choosen to use an open protocol like xmpp.
<brobostigon> doubt*
<locodir-user> so, gentleman/ ladies, that is the best software i can try to connect with my yahoo/msn messenger friends?
<AlanBell> I guess it is like BBN on blackberry or facetime on apple, closed community of users
<MartijnVdS> locodir-user: the built-in "empathy" client will do that for you just fine
<brobostigon> i agree with MartijnVdS
<MartijnVdS> locodir-user: you can configure it by clicking on the envelope in the top bar
<locodir-user> thanks everyone
<MartijnVdS> and then going online
<MartijnVdS> I think
<davmor2> brobostigon: http://blog.process-one.net/on_msn_live_messenger_adopting_xmpp/
<brobostigon> davmor2: very weird, ok, let me read.
<davmor2> brobostigon: there are pages of that on google
<brobostigon> davmor2: it is somewhat hard to believe as you can imagine.
<davmor2> brobostigon: I think it was an attempt to be able to keep a single client talking on facebook, google and msn all from messenger so MS could keep control of the app to be honest but it still made OS clients more reliable with messenger
<jacobw> i really hope they do that
<brobostigon> davmor2: question is, what are the xmpp server parameters and details, so i can point bitlbee at it?
<locodir-user> I have empathy installed
<locodir-user> lets see
<davmor2> brobostigon: does this help http://social.msdn.microsoft.com/Forums/en-CA/messengerconnect/thread/b1f0929f-84af-4baf-937a-94d5d8a338b7
<brobostigon> davmor2: let me read.
<davmor2> brobostigon: the other thing you can do is look at the source for telepathy butterfly iirc that might point you in the right direction
<brobostigon> davmor2: agreed, yes, like bitlbee. but if they do use xmpp for msn, then why, does stuff like msn video not work, when within xmpp it works fine? wouldnt you think, they made it interoperable, or xmpp clients could communicate end to end.
<locodir-user> hi again everyone- I have installed empathy. but the video call facility is grayed out. any solutions?
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: because those are extensions to XMPP
<MartijnVdS> and every vendor made its own extensions
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: yes, true,
<MartijnVdS> yay...
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: good point,
<MartijnVdS> also, firewall/NAT traversal might not be universal
<davmor2> brobostigon: from what I understand it is our codecs no being supported by msn messenger iirc
<brobostigon> true.
<brobostigon> davmor2: ok, maybe, yes, also.
<brobostigon> locodir-user: video for which protocol. ?
<MartijnVdS> yes!
<davmor2> brobostigon: from what I remember audio works but video was hit and miss
<locodir-user> guys, what you are talking about is like GREEK to me (with due respect to Greeks)
<locodir-user> i loged into yahoo messenger and trying to ring another user
<brobostigon> davmor2: when i last tried, both were non-functyional.
<locodir-user> hope, this make sence
<locodir-user> i can see the video calling facility
<locodir-user> but it is grayes out
<locodir-user> grayed out
<brobostigon> locodir-user: that says, it is non-supported,
<locodir-user> oh
<locodir-user> ok
<locodir-user> is there any other software that i can use to make video call to yahoo friends?
<davmor2> locodir-user: try installing an app called cheese and lets make sure that your linux system is using your webcam correctly
<locodir-user> ok
<davmor2> locodir-user: cheese is a little app a bit like photobooth so it's all local but will at least let you know if it is working
<locodir-user> ok sir
<locodir-user> i am doing it now
<AlanBell> looks like for videos in Empathy it is Google Talk, MSN , Jabber , and SIP
<Silae> Hi
<AlanBell> empathy talks lots of chat protocols, all in one client rather than messing about with squillions of them like on windows
<locodir-user> yes i can understand
<AlanBell> but not all of the protocols support video in a way that anything other than the official client can use
<AlanBell> hi Silae
<AlanBell> skype and google plus hangouts are what I know to work reliably
<AlanBell> but that is mostly because I don't know anyone with an MSN account or whatever
<Silae> Is this the correct channel to ask questions concerning issues with ubuntu? (I have taken up Ubuntu in the last 2-3 months)
<brobostigon> i know one person with msn, and when i video her, we use skype.
<AlanBell> Silae: sure, ask away
<Silae> I have dual ATI Mobility Radeon HD 4870s, which I would like to crossfire (using the proprietary drivers) in order to run Guild Wars 2 within Wine, after following this guide https://help.ubuntu.com/community/BinaryDriverHowto/ATI, I have ended up in the unfortunate situation that with the xorg.conf that AMD creates, it is displaying the second graphics screen on the monitor rather than the first graphics card
<locodir-user> hi all
<locodir-user> msn is the same. video call facility is grayedout
<Silae> I haven't enable crossfire yet and the second graphics card screen is simply a white screen with an 'x' shaped cursor
<brobostigon> locodir-user: did you do as davmor2 suggested, to make sure your camera is properly supported by ubuntu?
<locodir-user> yes
<locodir-user> i have installed it
<brobostigon> locodir-user: does it recognise your cameras properly?
<locodir-user> when i open it, i can see myself
<brobostigon> locodir-user: thats good, :)
<locodir-user> yes
<davmor2> locodir-user: okay good so if there is an issue then it is only with the client so we can rule out hardware issues
<locodir-user> ok
<brobostigon> locodir-user: try a program called amsn, that used to work many years ago, with msn video, that is all i can think of.
<davmor2> locodir-user: in software-center type in telepathy-farsight and let me know if it is installed please
<locodir-user> ok one sec
<locodir-user> no
<Silae> just to add clarification I am fairly certain is utilising the second graphics card since at the point of logging in the screen is black but I can type my password and login. However I will be taken to that white desktop, but I can take my mouse to the supposed screen from the first graphics card
<davmor2> locodir-user: install that
<davmor2> locodir-user: then try a video chat on msn again
<locodir-user> ok
<Silae> This would be easy to fix if I had a spare monitor unfortunately I am restricted to the monitor from my notebook
<davmor2> locodir-user: sorry libtelepathy-farstream not sight
<brobostigon> !info libtelepathy-farstream unstable
<lubotu3`> Package libtelepathy-farstream does not exist in unstable
<brobostigon> !info libtelepathy-farstream
<AlanBell> unstable??
<lubotu3`> Package libtelepathy-farstream does not exist in precise
<brobostigon> AlanBell: debian.
<AlanBell> !info libtelepathy-farstream2
<lubotu3`> libtelepathy-farstream2 (source: telepathy-farstream): Glue library between telepathy and farstream. In component main, is optional. Version 0.4.0-0ubuntu1 (precise), package size 67 kB, installed size 321 kB
<brobostigon> ah.
<davmor2> meh I was close
<AlanBell> but no cigar
<davmor2> I'm not looking
<davmor2> I'm going from memory here
<brobostigon> davmor2: i just had to check, i didnt know what it was within telepathy.
<locodir-user> telpathy is still installing
<davmor2> locodir-user: basically, Empathy is a nice frontend (think website) to all the ugly pipework that makes stuff happen.  By default all the text based stuff is installed for the more popular chat clients.  The video pipework might not be
<locodir-user> i installed telepathy. same. video/voice call is grayed out
<AlanBell> this is with an MSN contact now is it?
<locodir-user> yes
<AlanBell> I don't even have MSN in the list of accounts I can add, is MSN the same thing as Windows Live?
<locodir-user> yes
<AlanBell> hmm, looks like it should have been fixed in 2010
<locodir-user> do i need to buy a new computer then?
<AlanBell> heh, no
<locodir-user> ok thanks
<AlanBell> bug 519551
<lubotu3`> Launchpad bug 519551 in telepathy-butterfly (Ubuntu) "Video call to/from MS Messenger contact does not work" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/519551
<locodir-user> do i have to install the above?
<davmor2> locodir-user: so if you go to this https://apps.ubuntu.com/cat/applications/libtelepathy-farstream2/ ensure you have that installed by clicking on the available in software-center button if that fails you can try https://apps.ubuntu.com/cat/applications/amsn/
<AlanBell> dunno, that is just a bug report I am reading through
<davmor2> AlanBell: not available in precise (butterfly)
<davmor2> AlanBell: I'm assuming it got dropped when msn used xmpp
<locodir-user> I am really appreciate for this help everyone.
<AlanBell> oh, right
<AlanBell> so Microsoft broke it all again as soon as they had fixed it :(
<brobostigon> seems so.
<davmor2> AlanBell: it is microsoft come on
<AlanBell> any canonical folk in the office on Friday?
<davmor2> apparently 415 entries in /etc/apt/source.list.d/  makes your system hate update who'd of thunk it
<diplo> AlanBell: I've never got msn video to work ever on  linux
<davmor2> ah apps.ubuntu.com you are the new way to share applications to new users, now to remember to use it D'oh
<davmor2> it's not like I test it works or anything
<davmor2> AlanBell: can you try something for what happens if you click on apt://torchlight
<AlanBell> terminal really should recognise those links
<AlanBell> not found
<davmor2> AlanBell: ah you are on quantal right
<AlanBell> there isn't a software packages called torchlight in your current software sources
<AlanBell> but of course
<davmor2> one second then
<AlanBell> released software is for other people
<davmor2> AlanBell: apt://xchat
<davmor2> AlanBell: and out of interest how are you triggering it
<AlanBell> paste to firefox url bar
<davmor2> man we need to get that fixed
<AlanBell> apt://xchat works fine
<AlanBell> get what fixed? terminal?
<locodir-user> any solution?
<AlanBell> bug #1000675
<lubotu3`> Launchpad bug 1000675 in gnome-terminal (Ubuntu) "apt://<package> URLs not recognized as URLs" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1000675
<davmor2> AlanBell: oh that's nice in xchat is says open in browser and when you click on it USC opens to the page
<davmor2> s/says/saying
<davmor2> locodir-user: did you try the 2 links I gave you?
<AlanBell> locodir-user: you might be able to ask the empathy developers, apparently they hang out in the #empathy channel on the gimpnet irc network which you can get to by clicking the link on this page: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Empathy
<locodir-user> nope
<locodir-user> do you want  me to try it
<davmor2> locodir-user: the first one should be installed if not install it and try empathy again, if that works great the other is an msn only app that might support video for msn at least
<davmor2> locodir-user: the other thing you can do is give me a call from empathy.  davmor2@live.co.uk  that will test open client to open client
<locodir-user> firstone is already installed
<locodir-user> secondone- i cannot find it in software centre
<locodir-user> ok
<davmor2> locodir-user: indeed oneiric only
<locodir-user> i am happy to give remote access to my desktop if you like, but i dont know how to add u into empathy
<diplo> davmor2: It's never worked properly, msn video that is.. I spent many fruitless hours with it
<diplo> Just used google vid/skype now adays
<locodir-user> there is no facility either on empathy nor telepathy to add a user
<davmor2> locodir-user: what's your msn id
<locodir-user> biz_cecb@hotmail.com
<davmor2> locodir-user: so instant disconnect
 * popey tickles AlanBell with bug 1061220 for confirmification
<lubotu3`> Launchpad bug 1061220 in Unity "Panel opacity leaves menu residue" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1061220
<AlanBell> where is the panel opacity setting/
<AlanBell> and do I want a residue all over the place?
<popey> unity plugin -> experimental
<popey> :)
<popey> set to 0, set to 1 undoes it
<AlanBell> hey, that gets rid of the badly implemented and annoying top bar fake shadow too
<popey> yeah :D
<popey> i thought "ooh! this i could get used to!"
<AlanBell> at opacity 0.0100 it is kind of nice, hardly any shadow and no residue
<AlanBell> I am expecting the menus to look like the hud/dash at some point
<popey> you get what I get though at opacity 0?
<AlanBell> yes, I get the same at 0
<ahayzen> popey, do you reckon the long term plan is to have panel opacity on as default or not?
<popey> no idea
<ahayzen> it would be nice... with the maximized window toggle on... just the menus look slightly out of place (not being transparent)
<AlanBell> ahayzen: I suspect the panel will match the launcher and menus will drop down like the hud and dash, with the corners blending into the panel like it is all one thing
<ahayzen> AlanBell, that would be nice ;)
<AlanBell> just like the HUD, but not tied to the left corner
<ahayzen> lightdm has a transparent bar doesn't it?
<AlanBell> there was a plan to put all kinds of funky widgets in the HUD, not sure what happened to that concept
<popey> there was?
<ahayzen> I remember seeing that
<popey> there were concepts
<davmor2> night all
<popey> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEwiUGMkKVk  do you get that AlanBell
<AlanBell> popey: nope
<ahayzen> 'He [Mark shows a demo of what the HUD might look like in Ubuntu 12.10, saying  that developers will be able to start âwrapping dialog boxes and  toolbarsâ in it.'
<ahayzen> bah
<AlanBell> however, I do get something interesting, alt `` takes me back to where I started
<ahayzen> 'He [Mark] shows a demo of what the HUD might look like in Ubuntu 12.10, saying  that developers will be able to start âwrapping dialog boxes and  toolbarsâ in it.'
<ahayzen> http://cloudfront.omgubuntu.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/hud.jpg
<popey> I have a feeling I took that picture of jono
<ahayzen> so i guess that is not happening for 12.10 then?
<popey> certainly not
<popey> when are the presidential candidates having a chat? soon isnt it?
<popey> 9pm eastern
<popey> 1am
<popey> bah
<gord> maaan, more presidents? can't they just have one for a long time so i don't have to pay much attention
 * AlanBell files bug 1061229
<lubotu3`> Launchpad bug 1061229 in Unity "alt backtick backtick takes you back to where you started" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1061229
<popey> thanks
<popey> \o/ 81 tests done
<popey>  /o\ 147 to go
<bigcalm> I prescribe beer
 * popey gets wine
<bigcalm> I find I can still code while drinking grain based drinks
<bigcalm> Grapes stop me dead
<popey> luckily I am not coding
<popey> i am being the test monkey
<bigcalm> That would drive me to drink
<bigcalm> popey: did you enjoy playing edge?
<bigcalm> If so, you might enjoy the whole album of music! http://ninomojo.bandcamp.com/album/edge-sweet-music-from-the-game
<popey> edge?
<bigcalm> :O
<bigcalm> Did you buy the Humble Android Bundle?
<bigcalm> Oh, silly me. You wouldn't have :|
<popey> yeah, i did
<bigcalm> Oh, ok :)
<popey> i do have an android device
<popey> I just think it sucks :)
<bigcalm> Edge works in Linux as well as Android
<bigcalm> Aaaaaaaaaaaanyway ;)
<popey> yeah, not got to it yet
<bigcalm> I think you'll like Edge
<bigcalm> I likes it a lot for the musics
<popey> bah
<popey> getting email for someone who thinks he's alan.pope@gmail.com
<popey> but he isn't
<popey> I am
<popey> AlanBell, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5oTjVAf46w
<popey> full screen on intel.. slow for you?
<AlanBell> http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00432J56G/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?ie=UTF8&smid=A2A3H14I74Y6BA do you think that will work well?
<popey> i know someone with one
<popey> they're very cheap/crap
<popey> and come with windows software
<popey> friend managed to brick his very easily
<popey> but let me know how you get on :)
<AlanBell> hmm, it is cheap
<popey> the enclosure is used by many far eastern companies
<popey> the guts differ wildly
<AlanBell> I believe the talkback speaker is windows IE only
<AlanBell> oh, ok I thought they would all be the same
<AlanBell> and I was going to see if I could make it battery powered and put it in the chicken house :)
<AlanBell> with solar recharging
<AlanBell> well for Â£35 lets have a look at the thing :)
<AlanBell> one camera, one bottle of sriarcha and one DVD of Iron Sky on their way :)
<popey> yay
<popey> can you check that video for me pls?
<popey> iron Sky is good fun!
<AlanBell> yes, dash full screen is a bit slow, there is lag when not maximised too
<AlanBell> bit faster on the small screen where there are less pixels to push
<popey> pls confirm
<AlanBell> bug #?
<bigcalm> I have the blu ray of Iron Sky, yet to watch it though. Hayley doesn't seem interested :(
<popey> in the description :)
<popey> of the video
<popey> i watched prometheus last night, that was fun
 * AlanBell reads the description slowly from left to right, then again from right to left
<popey> oh
<popey> sorry
 * AlanBell ponders for a while and stops for a jar of hunny
<popey> bah, i didnt file a bug for it
 * popey hugs AlanBell 
<AlanBell> lol
<popey> i made the video, showed some unity devs
<popey> they suggested turning off blur
<popey> which I did, and it was still pretty slow
<popey> :(
<popey> didnt file a bug because I felt like nobody considered it an actual bug
<popey> which I do, given it's an i7
<AlanBell> blur is going to take a bit of computation from the GPU, but I am guessing some of the delay is retrieving the icons to display
<popey> that shoudl be cached
<popey> if you watch the video its slow every time
<popey> the whole lot should be running in cache
<popey> given how many times I stabbed it and how little else was happening
<AlanBell> jankey
<gord> popey, its not cpu limited, its gpu limited. likely bad drivers blocking when they shouldn't when creating certain ogl things like framebuffers
<popey> AlanBell, is the music lens broken for you?
<popey> i.e. finds no music
<AlanBell> it finds Queen
<AlanBell> and Abba
<AlanBell> is there any other music it is supposed to find?
<popey> mine is blank
<popey> not finding anything i have
 * AlanBell wonders if the twitter logo for the gwibber lens is an authorised use of the trademark
<popey> its changed
<popey> not using their logo now
<AlanBell> oh ok
<popey> are you up to date? :)
<popey> in which case you may find music search broken when you update
 * AlanBell updates
<popey> bug 1061278
<lubotu3`> Launchpad bug 1061278 in unity-lens-music (Ubuntu) "Music lens finds no music" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1061278
 * AlanBell will be cross if there is no Abba in the music lens any more
<AlanBell> 312 upgraded, 1 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
 * AlanBell purchases name badges for the release party
<AlanBell> I do kind of like the shopping lens in practice, the dash is quite good at that
<popey> i appear to have an /.rpmdb folder
<popey> which is somewhat disconcerting
<AlanBell> so do I
<AlanBell> used alien?
<popey> not that i can recall
<AlanBell> I have files in there touched on May 22 and Sep 29 20:58
<popey> may 05 and 11 sept
<popey> bet there's a manky deb on my system which came from an rpm which was updated on those dates
<popey>  /var/log/dpkg.log will reveal all I imagine
<gord> trying to read twitter when you don't obesessively watch it is such a pain, its all quite litterally backwards
<AlanBell> 2012-05-22 11:45:04 status installed alien 8.86
<popey> what else installed that day?
<popey> bet its virtualbox or some other 3rd party thing.. skype?
<AlanBell> heap of other stuff
<popey> it'll be something proprietary I bet
<AlanBell> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1258989/
<AlanBell> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1258991/
<czajkowski> aquarius: oi!
<brobostigon> nos da everyone, sleep well.
<aquarius> czajkowski, oi what?
#ubuntu-uk 2012-10-04
<AlanBell> morning all
<diplo> Morning all
 * AlanBell wonders who to poke to get the patch to fix bug 1016969 in to Quantal
<lubotu3`> Launchpad bug 1016969 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "daily live cd boots silent in virtualbox" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1016969
<MooDoo> morning all
<bigcalm> Morning peeps
<AlanBell> anyone know an easy way to get chromium to use the firefox user agent string?
<SuperMatt> not a clue, Alan
<popey> an extension?
<SuperMatt> I never do those sorts of thing
<AlanBell> popey: ok, found one. Thought it might be built in and I was missing it
<AlanBell> yay, that was easy
<AlanBell> boo to sites that still do browser detection in 2012
<SuperMatt> so, this release party in two weeks
<SuperMatt> what normally happens?
<AlanBell> intoxicating fluids are imbibed
<SuperMatt> yes, I see. Go on.
<AlanBell> on??
<SuperMatt> oh
<SuperMatt> HUZZAH
<AlanBell> Canonical sometimes buys nibbles
<AlanBell> it really isn't much more complicated than that
<JamesTai1> Good morning all! :)
<bigcalm> Anybody here able to help me understand IPSec configuration? :)
<bigcalm> Good morning JamesTai1. You appear to be missing some t this morning
 * bigcalm goes to make a cuppa
<SuperMatt> hurm, my firefox keeps crashing this morning
 * SuperMatt blames the fact he's running the beta and thinks nothing of it
<hoover> good morning
<SuperMatt> good morning
<bigcalm> to you
<Laney> haha
<Laney> there's a wireless network in range of me called "Wi believe I can Fi"
<SuperMatt> that's pretty cool
<knightwise> lol
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<SuperMatt> good morning
<SuperMatt> I'm dead excited about going to a release party
<mungojerry> what happens? people drink beer?
<SuperMatt> seems so
<SuperMatt> I've been meaning to go to a release party for ages, but I just never had the chance
<SuperMatt> and now my girlfeind works lates, I have an excuse to be out late too
<mattt> SuperMatt: dew eet
<SuperMatt> gunna!
<MooDoo> someone say beer
<SuperMatt> I think the unity quicklists are gonna need a few more features
<SuperMatt> I've created my own launcher with a lot of shortcuts to things that I do regularly, but now it's getting quite full
<brobostigon> MooDoo: yes :)
<mungojerry> ginger beer
<MooDoo> fair enough then, I could do with a pint or 3
<AlanBell> can you come to the party MooDoo?
<MooDoo> AlanBell: what party is this Alan?  I've come in halfway through the conversation again.
<AlanBell> http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-uk/2006/detail/
<mungojerry> wow, getting gnome shell to work is one hack after another :(
<MooDoo> AlanBell: alas no, i'm on lates that week, 3:30 - midnight, but i'll be on IRC and there is spirit
<AlanBell> might try a G+ hangout from the pub
<SuperMatt> hah
<SuperMatt> awesome idea
<AlanBell> I have all the kit for doing that, should have 3G reception in that part of town
<MooDoo> now that would be fun :)
<AlanBell> I will bring my good camera and polycom communicator and possibly some powered speakers
<SuperMatt> pfft
<SuperMatt> windows 7 install restart count: 2
<SuperMatt> Ubuntu: 1
<SuperMatt> microsoft really have a lot of catching up to do
 * SuperMatt wonders if it would be possible for ubuntu to start without rebooting the PC
<mungojerry> hmm, get massive lock ups and stutter when installing a deb file in gnome shell too
<mungojerry> weird, also in normal operation, dragging windows on screen 1 is laggy and juddery, screen2 is smooth
<mungojerry> core i5 and nvidia gfx
<mungojerry> anyone experienced a problem like that?
<davmor2> Morning all
<SuperMatt> davmor2: /j #ubuntu-on-air
<gord> mungojerry, different refresh rates i assume on the monitors?
<mungojerry> gord, it was incredibly stuttery, but now is OK, probably a hangover from the i/o caused by installing the deb file :S
<mungojerry> the problem is not limited to my pc
<gord> yeah it'll be the installing a deb that causes it, but i'm just talking about the difference between one screen and another
<mungojerry> identical monitors :S
<mungojerry> the judder and lag was massive
<mungojerry> 1 fps
<NET||abuse> popey: howdy dude, I was looking at hte config for the microserver last night, finally got sata cable to connect to the second sata port on the mobo.
<popey> yay
<NET||abuse> popey: but i didn't see any options to activate the drive in the optical bay in the bios?
<NET||abuse> was wondering if you had a pointer on that?
<popey> i didnt do anything to activate it
<NET||abuse> so i was searching for additional options for a second sata interface
<popey> second?
<NET||abuse> i got the ubuntu alt cd 12.04.1 on usb stick and booted it.
<NET||abuse> but the partitioner couldn't see any drives except the usb stick
<popey> odd
<NET||abuse> yeh, a little frustrating.
<NET||abuse> i realised too late last night that the main sata controller needs to be flopped from ata mode to raid0/1
<NET||abuse> so i can try that next chance i get to fiddle with it, maybe tonight
<NET||abuse> but otherwise, still got no sign of hte first drive at all
<NET||abuse> even the included 250GB drive that was in the first caddy
<NET||abuse> hmm, maybe i need to boot to a live usb and do some lspci and other listings
<NET||abuse> otherwise thogh, i grabbed a sweet sata bay that fits int he optical drive, http://www.maplin.co.uk/sata-easy-swap-hdd-mobile-rack-218031
<NET||abuse> sits in the chassis nicely
<NET||abuse> just had to add a screw with teh right head shape to grab the optical slot rails and latch
<NET||abuse> i think i'm a little too excited about building this server, it's been 3 years since i had a real home setup
<popey> https://www.facebook.com/zuck/posts/10100518568346671 scary that there's a billion people on facebook
<popey> http://popey.com/house/ idling lower today \o/
<Daviey> popey: can we have nagios alerts if you have a power spike?
<popey> :D
<popey> maybe I should have a twitter account for my house like @andysc does :D
<Daviey> popey: it's essential, but i need sms alerts.
<AlanBell> aquarius: how is your rendered dice throwing these days?
<aquarius> AlanBell, project on hold; doing it with animated gifs won't work because of transparency :(
<aquarius> so I need to make it render with css3 3d transitions
<aquarius> which I have halfway managed
<aquarius> and then got distracted
<AlanBell> gosh, OK
<AlanBell> so the browser will do the 3d
<bigcalm> I guess APNG was a no-go
 * gord designs websites using entirely apng and jpeg2000 images
<bigcalm> Â¬.Â¬
<brobostigon> !info gnome-shell
<lubotu3`> gnome-shell (source: gnome-shell): graphical shell for the GNOME desktop. In component universe, is optional. Version 3.4.1-0ubuntu2 (precise), package size 329 kB, installed size 901 kB
<jacobw> *sigh* unity is crashing again :(
<jacobw> kwin ftw
<popey> jacobw, what release?
<aquarius> bigcalm, no-one supports apng, do they?
<bigcalm> aquarius: natively, FF and other gecko browsers do. There are plug-ins for other browsers and various image processing packages. But without native support, I don't think it's worth the effort
<aquarius> *nod*
<aquarius> I didn't even know that ff did :)
<bigcalm> aquarius: my source of info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/APNG
<bigcalm> Wow, Opera Mobile has native support!
<gord> well thats five extra users right there
<bigcalm> Haha
<bigcalm> gord: I think aquarius is their main user ;)
<jacobw> popey: granted, this particular crash is on quantal
<aquarius> having used it for one evening, yesterday, I think I probably agree :)
<Azelphur> Anyone know where I get replacement ones of these? https://www.dropbox.com/s/8muz28gnteqjl9n/2012-10-04%2014.01.21.jpg?m
<popey> jacobw, new unity later today
<jacobw> popey: ok
<bigcalm> aquarius: what's your target?
<bigcalm> +platform
<jacobw> popey: the complain i most often hear about unity is that the window switching model is time consuming
<aquarius> bigcalm, for the dice thing? desktop and mobile
<bigcalm> aquarius: have banners saying "best viewed in Firefox" ;)
<jacobw> popey: i totally agree, will it ever be possible to switch between calc windows with a quicklist or similar rather than the expose method?
<popey> alt-` ?
<jacobw> can i change that binding? it's not inputable on my keyboard layout
<aquarius> bigcalm, heh. no. :)
<popey> its the key above tab
<popey> its not defined as "alt+`" it's alt+key_above_tab
<AlanBell> window switching is getting better in unity, it still isn't good for people who are used to tracking the zindex of all their windows
<jacobw> it's more a problem of quickly switching to a window with a particular title
<AlanBell> alt+` is kind of OK, it becomes more understandable when you understand  bug 1061229
<lubotu3`> Launchpad bug 1061229 in unity (Ubuntu) "alt backtick backtick takes you back to where you started" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1061229
<jacobw> for example if you have 4 letters open in writer with identical letterheads but different filenames/titles and thus window titles then it's difficult to switch easily with a expose like function
<AlanBell> jacobw: https://code.launchpad.net/~alanbell/unity-window-quicklists/trunk
<AlanBell> grab that, it will do what you want with the quicklists
<AlanBell> I have been trying to live with the standard behavior
<AlanBell> I have written a couple of things to make unity much more usable, that quicklists thing and I rewrote the applications lens to make it possible to find applications without typing
<AlanBell> grouping them by category rather than using the categories as filters
<AlanBell> and ripping out the software centre nonsense in the applications lens, that should be a separate lens altogether
<AlanBell> http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/appmenulens.png like that
<AlanBell> with a new thing for controlling lenses and what lenses can report results to the home lens it might make sense to revisit that, having multiple apps lenses makes little sense when they all work at the same time
<jacobw> AlanBell: cool
<jacobw> AlanBell: it feels like we're reinventing the traditional desktop with shiny labels :p
<popey> where "traditional desktop" is what? CDE? OS/2? GEM? :)
<popey> http://www.deltasoft.com/graphics/screenshots/gem3desk.gif
<popey> thats all you need
<davmor2> popey: workbench for amiga surely :D
<jacobw> where traditional desktop is based around text labelled window management functions, like a taskbar and a pointer navigatable menu
<jacobw> why have window titles if you don't use them for window management?
<AlanBell> well yes it is reinventing the desktop
<jacobw> for what purpose?
<AlanBell> Xerox Alto
<AlanBell> these things need constant reinvention
<davmor2> AlanBell: why not just use the filters?
<AlanBell> davmor2: because too many clicks
<AlanBell> and unintuitive and out of the way
<davmor2> AlanBell: you click it once to show the filters then you click on department
<davmor2> although I agree it's not completely obvious
<AlanBell> click BFB, click apps lens click to show filters click filter you want, click see more results, click hide filter thing because there is no room to show any results, click thing you want to start
<popey> yeah, i just tested that to find all games on my system, way too many clicks
<davmor2> popey: fix the video lens crashing everytime I open the dash please
<AlanBell> oh yeah, video lens daemon at 100%cpu :( possibly because I am behind a proxy
 * AlanBell wonders how much of the lens stuff works behind a proxy
<jacobw> i don't buy the necessity of reinvention argument
<jacobw> incremental improvement through the gnome2 cycle worked very well
<jacobw> it's also worked very well through the kde4 cycle and is working well in the mozilla rapid release schedule
<popey> jacobw, no, incremental improvement in gnome2 did not work at all
<mgdm> AlanBell: I would hope it all would
<popey> if it did, go and find me a mainstream pc vendor selling computers running GNOME 2
<jacobw> popey: how so?
<popey> if it was a success, OEMs would have embraced it, customers would have bought it, but it wasn't, so they didn't.
<popey> its fine for nerds like us, but not for the 99% of people who are the target market for Ubuntu
<jacobw> have OEMs embraced unity? was the dell ubuntu project a failure? that based on gnome2.
<popey> yes, dell have hundreds of stores all over china and india branded ubuntu
<jacobw> i think the inverse of the 'nerds like gnome2' point is true, i think nerds prefer unity as a shiny thing and people who don't care for novel window management prefer gnome2/kde/windows
<popey> and it's not just dell
<jacobw> perhaps differention is the factor in the purchasing decision
<popey> there are many factors :)
 * AlanBell wonders if Dell will release Sputnik at any point
<AlanBell> seems absolutely crazy to announce a high end developer ultrabook, then let the hardware age 6 months before anyone can get it
<davmor2> jacobw: people just don't like change,  When kde went from kde3 to kde4 all the kde people were fuming and that was going from something that changed from a bar at the bottom to a bar at the bottom.  People get comfortable with the way something works and then hate anything that is a change
<jacobw> i'm not really interested in the purchasing decision, i already have a computer, all i need is a window manager for my OS
<jacobw> davmor2: i get that, but it's similar to 'if some climate change is not caused by man, then all climate change is inevitable' argument
<jacobw> davmor2: the resistance to change isn't the significient factor IMO, the resistance to kde4 wasn't widespread, trinity was never the sensible option
<davmor2> jacobw: You know there were flame wars worse than when ubuntu moved the button right
<popey> but the people you're all talking about are geeks.
<popey> these are not normal people
<AlanBell> this is true, however a pretty common theme is geeks saying on mailing lists that they wouldn't install unity for parents and family because it is too hard
<jacobw> "you're wrong because you're not not normal" is not an argument
<AlanBell> however unity does apparently test well with normal people (or what passes for normal in London)
<AlanBell> and my parents and children use it without complaint
<AlanBell> I would suggest to anyone not using unity yet that you should jump straight to Qantal and miss out Precise
<davmor2> AlanBell: but is that the geeks finding it too hard and saying to themselves that it would be too hard for their parents
<AlanBell> davmor2: it is indeed
<AlanBell> odd though isn't it
<davmor2> AlanBell: My mom is a complete novice and uses Ubuntu with unity with no issues
<jacobw> if you browse the web only then most computers are usable without issue
<jacobw> i don't 'hard' is the issue, it's that the design makes window management difficult and flat out rejects all known methods of efficent window management
<AlanBell> yes, it isn't a great window manager
<AlanBell> the reaction I got when I wrote the quicklists thing to manage lots of windows was that I should be using tmux and screen so I don't have so many windows
<AlanBell> the solution to the window manager not being good with lots of windows isn't really to use fewer windows imo
<jacobw> using less windows isn't really use case for tmux or screen
<popey> s/less/fewer/
<jacobw> i guess my problem is that the capabilities of unity are not superset of it's predecessor which to me is a regression
<jacobw> anyone know how to set permissions recursively in cyrus2.2?
<mungojerry>    17.732016] NVRM: Your system is not currently configured to drive a VGA console on the primary VGA device. The NVIDIA Linux graphics driver requires the use of a text-mode VGA console. Use of other console
<mungojerry> [   17.732020] NVRM: drivers including, but not limited to, vesafb, may result in corruption and stability problems, and is not supported.
<mungojerry> ins this normal?
<czajkowski> aquarius: was over the heart failure you gave me last night by sayin you werent over *this* weekend
<czajkowski> best idea ever http://twitter.com/czajkowski/status/253912768971939840
<DJones> Already at Â£1000
<DJones> http://www.justgiving.com/jonobaconmarathon
<ging> 7
<ging> oops
<AlanBell> popey are you in the office tomorrow?
<popey> no
<AlanBell> you may drink your tomato juice with worcester now
<popey> i may?
<popey> unfortunately it's not arrived
<AlanBell> yes :)
<AlanBell> oh noes!
 * popey checks amazon
<AlanBell> you will have to stick to weak lemon drink thne
 * czajkowski hugs her new purple harddrive! :D
<RaycisCharles> czajkowski: you sound Polish.
<popey> Reading Depot
<popey> Undeliverable - 2 October 2012 7:28:00
<popey> what!?
<popey> HDNL
<popey> damnit
<czajkowski> RaycisCharles: you've heard me speak ?
<RaycisCharles> NYET
<locodir-user> hi guys
<Darael> Good morning.
<locodir-user> I am looking for an advice. I cannot open java chat pages.
<locodir-user> any advice please
<Darael> !java
<lubotu3`> To just use java you need a "Java Runtime Environment" (JRE) and/or a browser plugin. If that is not sufficient you will need a "Java Development Kit" (JDK) aka "Software  Development Kit" (SDK).  Please see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Java about how to install one of three current implementations.
<Darael> Unless thou meanest JavaScript, which is in fact something completely different that shouldn't be giving trouble at all...
<locodir-user> sorry
<locodir-user> on google crhome i can open
<locodir-user> but not in mozila
<Oli> popey: Where is your temperature monitor?
<popey> popey.com/house
<Oli> No, I mean where in the house
<Oli> Because it's very warm there
<popey> Oli, oh, in the centre of the house next to the server, on top of the freezer :D
<popey> so yes, warm
<popey> utility room
<bigcalm> Good evening peeps :)
<Darael> Good morning bigcalm.
<bigcalm> Eager :)
<Darael> Nah.  It's always morning somewhere.  I tend to default to morning so as not to bother thinking about what time it is.
<AlanBell> !ugt
<AlanBell> http://www.total-knowledge.com/~ilya/mips/ugt.html
<AlanBell> so you are entirely correct that it is morning when you enter the channel
<AlanBell> lubotu3`: nick lubotu3
<bigcalm> I'm terrible with network address stuff. With /8 /24 etc, can you have /0 for a single address?
<Darael> bigcalm: /0 would be no prefix, meaning the entire address space!
<Darael> bigcalm: For v4, the just-one-address prefix length would be /32.  For v6, it's /128.
<bigcalm> Thank you
<Darael> One way to think of it is that the number after the / is the number of bits "locked" that way.
<bigcalm> I have a terrible time understanding it :(
<bigcalm> Always have. It's been 15 years since I started
<Darael> Well, in v4 it's mostly easy because people don't often use anything other than /8, /16, /24, and /32.  Which correspond to fixing one, two, three, and all four of the numbers in the usual dotted-decimal representation respectively.
<Darael> So when we talk about 192.168.0.0/16 as a set of addresses we mean all the addresses from 192.168.0.0 to 192.168.255.255.  Usually we're talking about things being in that block.
<Darael> Whereas 192.168.0.0/24 is only 192.168.0.0 to 192.168.0.255.
<Darael> (Trying to choose reasonably familiar examples.  Obviously we could choose others.)
<Darael> ...I'll shut up now.
<daftykins> Red Dwarf wasn't too bad at all
<daftykins> anyone catch it?
<bigcalm> Darael: I see, that was helpful. Thank you
<bigcalm> Talking of 196.168.0.0 as a /16 makes sense to me
<Darael> Well, like I say, it could also mean a prefix anywhere in the range /17 to /32.  Depends how big the net in question is.
<daftykins> i did lab sessions at Uni with a /29, that was nuts. like 4 or 5 usable IPs on one of those
<Darael> Eight IPs total, one of which is reserved for the broadcast address IIRC, and... there are other reasons for them to be unusable but I forget what.
#ubuntu-uk 2012-10-05
<christel> good morning
<knightwise> hey christel
<diplo> Morningall
<mattt> morning
<knightwise> hey mattt , diplo
<knightwise> hmm.. conky acting up
<christel> hullu you all :D
<knightwise> when I configure it on my system , it floats OVER all the other windows
<knightwise> 0/ *** christel
<diplo> I've not used conky in years
<AlanBell> nom nom nom, fried eggs from the garden
<diplo> Amazed those chickens still make eggs after being scared from the BBQ :P
<jellybean> Hey all
<jellybean> Does anyone know a decent guide or have a recommended procedure to to install Ubuntu Server to a compact flash card?
<jellybean> Normally I would use EXT2 and use tmpfs for tmp etc to try to reduce writes but I'm wondering if there's a better way to do it these days?
<popey> morning
<bittin^work> morning
<jellybean> Good morning
<MooDoo> morning all
<SuperMatt> lots of nice fixes this morning
<SuperMatt> thanks all
<SuperMatt> <3
<knightwise> dkjml
<knightwise> sorry
<knightwise> hmm.. still fighting conky
<knightwise> Grr
<bittin^work> is you the famous knightwise ?
<knightwise> Famous ? :) erm .. yes
<bittin^work> http://knightwise.com/tag/podcast-2/
<bittin^work> :>
<jellybean> How is the 12.10 beta looking?  I'm just in the process of reinstalling my home server/desktop.  I'll put 12.04 on the server for LTS, but just wondering whether it's worth installing the beta of 12.10 or waiting a few more weeks for the release.
<bittin^work> cool used to listen to your podcast :p
<SuperMatt> YES
<SuperMatt> it's totally worth it
<knightwise> bittin^work: yes .. guilty :) that iZ me :)
<bittin^work> :p
<SuperMatt> last night they put out unity 6.8 and there are a lot of nice fixes
<knightwise> you a listener  ?
<bittin^work> yes
<jellybean> SuperMatt, is it stable enough for daily use without frustration?
<SuperMatt> jellybean: yes. yes it is
<SuperMatt> I've been salivating all morning
<jellybean> SuperMatt, thanks I'll try 12.10 then
<SuperMatt> s/all morning/ since ten to nine
<popey> amazon are silly
<popey> beh
<jellybean> popey, Why's that?
<knightwise> bittin^work: you should listen again :) ... We have the famous popey coming up :)
<bittin^work> =>
<bittin^work> nice
<popey> haha
<jellybean> Setting up a home server: Should I bother with LDAP for auth/samba/etc?
<awilkins> What are your clients and how many do you have>
<awilkins> The answer is probably "no" though.
<MooDoo> I've not bothered with ldap, just setup samba
<jellybean> My clients are me, and I've been thinking that the answer is probably no but like the idea of keeping everything in one place
<jellybean> Not got much experience with it though so it might be more hassle than its worth
<AlanBell> jellybean: I just did a a standard install to an SD card
<awilkins> FWIW I just do all my file transfers with SFTP
<AlanBell> ext4
<bittin^work> sshfs <3
<awilkins> Samba is acceptable for those *ick* Windows clients
<jellybean> AlanBell, Thanks
<AlanBell> and yes, on the desktop go straight to 12.10, do not pass go, do not install 12.04
<bittin^work> i haven't played with Samba for years
<jellybean> Well there is one other user on the network (I.e. the other half) who uses windows and would like files available via samba
<gord> i use samba everywhere because its less of a windows thing and more of a anything can use it thing
<diplo> +1 gord  :)
<diplo> I'm the same as it 'just works'
<MooDoo> I just setup samba for the windows machine i'm using at home, got it working eventually, pah fancy windows home not having an NFS client.
<jellybean> I guess I could just use samba and allow guest writes to all the shares and it (Sort of) solves the problem
<diplo> yeah mine is totally open jellybean, my kids aren't old enough to break anything yet
<diplo> When it comes time to need to do that I can
 * awilkins strikes the desk with his head, for the git who wrote this code ran it through an autoformatter set to 3 spaces. But only some of it. So now every possible formatting config for his editor is wrong.
<kirrus> awilkins: it could always be worse though...
<kirrus> I regularily have to wade through obsfucated/compressed javascript to find bad code :(
<knightwise> hmmm
<knightwise> builderman yanked mah internetz
<BigRedS> I just found a bunch of bad code by grepping for Windows linebreaks :)
<kirrus> BigRedS: that's cheating
 * kirrus is aware we're supposed to cheat
<awilkins> This code is *hideous*
<awilkins> Using reflection to display data instead of MVC
<awilkins> The UI element is passing Method objects to another object so it knows which field to read
 * awilkins throws up in his mouth a little
<knightwise> makes me think about lunch
<knightwise> hmm.. hungry
<awilkins> If your UI element knows enough about your bloody class to pass a method to another class.... just have it use the method it passed in the first place....
<knightwise> anybody know anything about conky ?
<awilkins> At least that's just lazy and poor abstraction, not horribly complex and prone to failure if you ever refactor it
<jellybean> This is probably a stupid question, but do GIDs on ubuntu server and ubuntu desktop correspond to the same groups?
<BigRedS> Generally, <100 they're defined by policy
<BigRedS> so www-data is always UID/GID 33 for example
<BigRedS> It's expected that <100 is up to Ubuntu to define, >100,<1000 is for your use for systemy users, >1000 is for humans who want to log in
<BigRedS> I think
 * czajkowski stabs BigRedS 
 * AlanBell takes sharp objects away from czajkowski 
 * BigRedS bleeds a bit
 * MartijnVdS calls The Cleaner
<BigRedS> Before the paramedic? Cheers!
<AlanBell> czajkowski: how is the emerald isle today?
<bittin^work> hmm why is my virtual machine not booting today
<bittin^work> yay now it is :p
<czajkowski> not wet :)
<czajkowski> did have nice saussages and white pudding and eggs there for breakie :D
<AlanBell> mmm white pudding
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<knightwise> hey brobostigon
<bittin^work> morning brobostigon
<czajkowski> AlanBell: and superquinn saussages and galtee bacon
<brobostigon> hey knightwise and bittin^work
<knightwise> 0/
<knightwise> ok , dumb question , can I still display video's that require silverlight in Ubuntu ?
<MartijnVdS> knightwise: sometimes
<knightwise> ( I know , i wouldn't dream of visiting a site that requires it .. ) but I need to grab some video's with Kazam for work
<bittin^work> cool a Metro version of TuneinRadio :)
<AlanBell> czajkowski: bit of brown bread with that?
<czajkowski> no no soda bread here
<czajkowski> :(
 * BigRedS is going to UDS apparently
<czajkowski> BigRedS: really :D
<AlanBell> BigRedS: excellent!
<AlanBell> I am not going this time, but it is pretty cool
<Darael> knightwise: My memory of it all's a bit old, but there's Silverlight?
<Darael> s/Silverlight/Moonlight
<knightwise> aha , found it , there is a plugin for chromium
<knightwise> gonna try that
<knightwise> hmm
<knightwise> doenst work :(
<BigRedS> czajkowski: yeah, just for a day. Work rang and asked what I was up to on the 30th and if I had a passport
<popey> which day?
<popey> oh, 30th :)
<BigRedS> haha
<Laney> is that the friday?
<Laney> i.e. not a UDS day :(
<czajkowski> tuesday
<czajkowski> UDS 29/10 - 1/11
<knightwise>  
<Laney> oh cool beans
<BigRedS> so I shall be wandering around loudly advocating swap files, since that's all I can think of that I'd particularly like to get into 13.04 :)
<Laney> I was looking at November, when the 30th is a Friday
<BigRedS> that or listening to people :)
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: Swap-to-RAM
<MartijnVdS> +disk
<MartijnVdS> that's the future!
<BigRedS> haha, yes!
<BigRedS> I'm going to start offering that to people who keep swapping
<knightwise> anyone know a fix for a conky window that keeps floating OVER every other window ?
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: in-memory gzipped ramdisk
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: re-invent MagnaRAM
<MartijnVdS> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MagnaRAM#MagnaRAM
<BigRedS> Sometimes I'm a bit pleased that I didn't have to deal with all these pre-about-2001 great ideas in computers
<mungojerry> anyone noticed that giffgaff are changing their unlimited internet tariff?
<mungojerry> the Â£10pm one gets tehtering allowed, but usage is now 500mb
<mungojerry> the unlimited one (no tether) is Â£12
<psst_> oh that's cool
<psst_> must tether my wife's laptop and phone, because she uses that tariff and doesn't run up much Internet
<BigRedS> I still don't see why mobile providers should know or care whether I'm tethering or not. 1GB is 1G whether it stops at my phone or carries on into a laptop
<davmor2> Morning all
<psst_> yeah, I agree that they shouldn't be introspecting our data and charging differently according to characteristics they discern
<Darael> BigRedS: It makes a certain amount of sense for unlimited data plans because poeple are likely to use more data if they're tethering, and it's probably "unlimited" based on assumptions about how much people use from a phone.
<mungojerry> BigRedS, it was unlimited, so i guess unlimited is OK, so long as the portion of users using around 100-300mb in reality is manageable, but if abused by tetheres, it could habitually be 2-5gb
<diplo> mungojerry: yeah it's 1gb thoughnot 500 ?
 * mungojerry checks
<diplo> Well that's what my email said yesterday
<mungojerry> correct 1gb http://community.giffgaff.com/t5/Blog/Upcoming-goodybag-and-tariff-changes/ba-p/6203900
<psst_> and when is this effective from? Can I tether right now?
<mungojerry> didn't get the mail though
<mungojerry> psst_, 6th november
<diplo> it was my payment one
<psst_> bah!
<psst_> I want it now!
<mungojerry> i have recurring goodybag
<mungojerry> just happened to read it on blog
<diplo> yeah same  here
<psst_> so does my wife
<mungojerry> you already have GG?
<mungojerry> switched my wife this week
<psst_> (I work from home and get by on an occasional Â£5 goodybag
<mungojerry> might be able to use the Â£5 one now
<psst_> mungojerry: is the new wife any better?
<mungojerry> badum -chish
<mungojerry> how long does credit last?
<psst_> ooh - no idea.  I just assumed it lasted indefinitely if you didn't leave the phone unused for a long time
<psst_> I went away for 7 weeks and lost nothing.
<mungojerry> maybe i can get Â£5pm and have Â£5 credit for non GG calls that should last me a few months at least
<psst_> yeah, actually I'm wondering whether I even need to buy goodybags any more.  I still don't have data working (never bothered) and I use about 10 texts a month and only really call giffgaff  or 0800 numbers, and the occasional landline
<mungojerry> wow
<mungojerry> my talktalk broadband price has increased around 25% latly
<psst_> to what?
<mungojerry> about Â£28
<mungojerry> was more like 20-22
<mungojerry> bb+phone
<mungojerry> hardly use phone either
<psst_> I pay just under Â£45 for 60MBs bb+unused phone+cable+1TB tivo
<psst_> I certainly missed the broadband when I worked over a 3G+ connection from remote foreign parts
<psst_> probably too much given that we manage to watch at most 5 hours of non-free tv a week
<Darael> Try a 10s-latency CDMA connection in Remote Foreign Parts some time.
 * Darael shudders*
<Darael> ...Where did that asterisk come from?
<Dave2> probably from Digium.
<Darael> I think I'll just blame Typo Gremlins.
<psst_> Darael: it's one you sent several years ago over that high-latency connection
 * davmor2 doesn't know
<Darael> psst_: As good an explanation as any.  I'll take it.
<psst_> that'll be Â£45, please
<Darael> Hmm.  I'm not carrying cash.  Can I interest you in a top-quality domesticated reason, instead?  I have several.  Trying to crossbreed them with excuses.
<davmor2> Darael: I'd go for voodoo myself
<psst_> Darael: if you have one that will satisfy the wife when she finds I haven't done any washing up or packing for the weekend yet, I'll take it
<davmor2> psst_: well the obvious thing there is to do it :P
 * psst_ gasps
<psst_> ok, she just texted to say she's stuck in a traffic jam
<psst_> that gives me a few mins.
<psst_> Thanks for all the info, guys
<BigRedS> Hm. what's the current fashionable thing to use to run an apt repositiory? I tried to add some packages to my reprepro one yesterday and realised I had no idea what I was doing.
<BigRedS> is there a new thing I should be doing?
<MartijnVdS> reprepro?
<Laney> that's what I use
<Laney> I just have the correct incantation in my history
<Laney> reprepro --ignore=missingfile -Vb ~/public_html/packages include quantal gnome-desktop3_3.6.0.1-0ubuntu2_amd64.changes
<Laney> \o/
 * czajkowski breaks Laneys reprepro 
 * Laney breaks the whole archive :(
<Laney> (or annoys czajkowski for rescoring? ^_^)
<czajkowski> oh do not even go there
<BigRedS> Laney: aha, ta!
 * czajkowski headdesks 
 * Laney giggles
<czajkowski> >:(
<Laney> BigRedS: there's a bit of initial setup to do too
<czajkowski> I've not been giggling
<BigRedS> yeah, it used to work
<Laney> to make the indices
<BigRedS> I used to have a script for it but I can't find it now... I think I accidentally tidied it
<Laney> but I only need that once every six months, so â¦
<davmor2> czajkowski: Prod
<davmor2> czajkowski: don't let Laney annoy you, you know thats my job :D
<mungojerry> what's the cheapest bband + phone packages you guys got?
 * popey has virgin cable
<knightwi1e> Eeevnin
<knightwi1e> oops
<knightwi1e> looks like i"m  allready here !
<davmor2> mungojerry: I'm with popey but I have Phone, Tv and BB
<mungojerry> on the phone to talktalk
<mungojerry> struggling a bit to drive them down
<AlanBell> plusnet ftw
<mungojerry> AlanBell, is that a bt LINE?
<AlanBell> yeah,BT infinity without BT
<mungojerry> i would have to change provider since i have tt line
<mungojerry> what do they do when they taptap on the keybaord? nothing i guess
<mungojerry> accordingly i cannot offer you more than half price rental for more than 3 months
<dwatkins> ooh, is that fibre to the cabinet, AlanBell?
<AlanBell> dwatkins: yeah, 70Mbps down
<dwatkins> nice
<dwatkins> according to their website I could get 40 MBit.
<dwatkins> If the upload speed is to be believed, it's ten times what I get now.
 * dwatkins wonders if there's an unlimited option with a static IP address
<AlanBell> I have static
<AlanBell> the extra packages have static IP
<dwatkins> 250GB seems pretty good, though as a limit.
<dwatkins> I'm currently with BeThere, they seem to let me do what I want.
<gord> i have 80mbit down fibre, use about 150gb a month
<gord> with zen not plusnet
<AlanBell> yeah, I don't think I could get close to 250GB
<gord> i could, but the 400gb package is the next one up for me, might upgrade just for piece of mind
<AlanBell> 41.44GB last month
<AlanBell> 26.88GB the month before
<AlanBell> and midnight to 8am doesn't count
<AlanBell> I had 6GB of midnight to 8am last month
<bittin^work> anyone wanna play songpop?
<dwatkins> I don't think I can tell how much internets I use. If I look at eth0 on my server, it includes internal traffic.
<gord> my router has a little measuring thing
<AlanBell> this is from the plus.net customer console
<dwatkins> yeah, bethere has no such tool, probably because they're not counting it
<gord> i switched from be, they can't get their act together with reguards to fibre and didn't like that they started blocking websites cos of that court order thingy
<dwatkins> I thought everyone had to comply with those court orders to block certain websites.
<gord> only companies that were part of the thing, its not a law it was a court order
<dwatkins> ah ok
<mungojerry> phone lines are such a swindle
<mungojerry> even with fibre they discourage you (with Â£Â£) from unbdundling your phone from the package
<dwatkins> I barely use my landline at home any more.
<mungojerry> yeah, but you pay almost the same as your mobile for it
<dwatkins> If I could persuade my parents to call me via Skype, I'd only keep it for emergencies.
<dwatkins> more, I think - my mobile costs me 13 a month.
<dwatkins> oops, that was supposed to have a pound symbol
<popey> my wife is on the phone for hours in the evening
<mungojerry> to the same person each time popey ?
<dwatkins> to people who own computers, popey? ;)
<mungojerry> using popey's sip gateway?
<dwatkins> I wonder if I can get my brothers to call me via sipgate
<dwatkins> haha
<popey> hmm, interesting, maybe one day I'll setup asterisk
<popey> i have a sip phone on my desk
<popey> cisco 7940
<mungojerry> either that or you can buy a skype phone thingy
<mungojerry> for the house
<dwatkins> I assume my Cisco phone at work uses SIP or some other kind of VoiP.
<dwatkins> there's always the mobile apps for Skype or SIP, too.
<mungojerry> skype quality sucks though
<dwatkins> I can make 0800 calls from my mobile for free with sipgate's app and a free account.
<mungojerry> dwatkins, how much per minute are the sipgate charges?
<mungojerry> couldn't work out if 0.02p or Â£0.02
<dwatkins> mungojerry: no idea, I've never paid them a penny ;) http://www.sipgate.co.uk/ has details I imagine
<dwatkins> looks like 1.19 pence per minute to UK landlines
<mungojerry> what a rip off, walker release new crisps that look like mcocys and are in big bags, but only weigh 28g ass opposed to the mccoys
<dwatkins> I remember crisps.
<mungojerry> i remember them every day at lunch time, and eat them
<dwatkins> I miss them a little.
<mungojerry> i miss curry and spicy food :(
<dwatkins> I'd be gutted to have had to give that up
<mungojerry> yeah
<dwatkins> I also miss sugar a little, but not too badly.
<mungojerry> however if i'm ever convicted or murder i'll eat a doner kebab with chilli sauce, and a hot curry
<mungojerry> before being sent to the chair
<dwatkins> are you allergic to hot spicy food, mungojerry? :-/;
<AlanBell> we don't do chairs
<mungojerry> intolerant to the effect of extreme appendicitis-like pain
<dwatkins> AlanBell: after what some parliaments have done to the UK, nothing would surprise me, sadly.
<dwatkins> mungojerry: eek
<dwatkins> I'm lactose-intolerant, but it's easily worked-around and even agrees with my diet.
<mungojerry> i'm probably something else intolerant as i can't gain weight, and feel tired a lot, but dunno what
<dwatkins> I feel much better for having given up carbs and sugars, less fluctuation in energy levels.
<mungojerry> but...but...minstrels
<mungojerry> and haribo
<dwatkins> I know
<dwatkins> those are the things I miss - I sometimes am naughty
<mungojerry> my drawer at work is legendary
<mungojerry> monster munch, chocolate and haribo, and biccies
<mungojerry> as part of a balanced diet of course
<dwatkins> whereas I have lots of screwdrivers and cables...
<dwatkins> even the internal support guy comes to me for stuff sometimes
<mungojerry> and i don't/can't really drink beer anymore either
<dwatkins> a balanced diet of monster munch and haribo sounds wonderful ;)
<shauno> nothing makes a fun day like a library where every single included example fails to run :/
<gord> its like raaayhaaain, on your wedding day
<davmor2> a traffic jam when your already late
 * czajkowski sticks a gobstoppper in gord 
<davmor2> czajkowski: Why?
<czajkowski> wy not
<davmor2> czajkowski: that doesn't answer the question posed, if you'd said cause he likes sweets I could of gone with that but no :D
<czajkowski> it's been a long day/week Laney will vouch for it
<davmor2> Laney: don't vouch it's a trap
<Laney> it's FRIIIIIIIIIIIIIIDAY
<davmor2> î¿\o/î¿
 * brobostigon eyes up some beer
 * davmor2 added the pompom's to annoy czajkowski some more 
<Laney> god, it's freezing today
 * Laney resists the urge to turn the heating on
 * dwatkins resists the urge to turn the desk fan on
<dwatkins> I think our air conditioning thinks it's the dead of winter
<gord> i put on the heating hours ago :P
<diplo> heating....! It's only October!
<mungojerry> its because you're still wearing summer gear
<diplo> I'm just a stingy git :)
<diplo> Bought blankets for the kids instead
 * czajkowski has her electric blanket on these days 
<czajkowski> Heavenly!
<BigRedS> wuss
<czajkowski> it's cold!
<gord> and more importantly, warm things are great
<BigRedS> it's not cold! Water is still liquid!
<kirrus> It's cold.
<kirrus> We might be having an argument about whether the aircon goes on in the office or not...
<diplo> Electric blankets, my gran used to have electric blankets, didn't know they still did them
<kirrus> Yeah.. I should probably pull mine out at some point..
<kirrus> cheaper than putting the heating on
<diplo> I just go without the heating and get nice and warm under the duvet
<kirrus> sometimes I think that all it'd take to make BigRedS really *really* happy would be an infinitly-full and eternally hot mug of coffee...
<BigRedS> cold coffee's good, too, sometimes
<Linuxriv> org
<czajkowski> ewww
<czajkowski> Tea
<czajkowski> :)
<AlanBell> tomato juice \o/
<AlanBell> popey: did you get yours yet?
<SuperMatt> pear drops \o/
<czajkowski> pear juice or pineapple juice is lovely
<AlanBell> grapefruit are also nom
<SuperMatt> I love pineapple juice
<popey> AlanBell, no, i moaned about it on twitter, and HDNL (Yodel) found my moan and followed me and figured out the problem
<popey> "Hi. Unfortunately the Tomato Juice was damaged so was disposed of. I'm glad Amazon are sending more! If"
<popey> I replied "Kinda alarming that I had to go off to twitter and find out that product was damaged, got no notification otherwise."
<popey> "I understand mate. As soon as you get that tracking number, DM me with it and I will keep an eye on your parcel. Danny :-)"
<popey> I don't like people I don't know calling me "mate"
<jpds> popey: Better go and tell him that.
<AlanBell> interesting to see how they are using twitter
<Laney> "I'm not your mate"
<Laney> Then you square up to him
<AlanBell> not sure if I should wear a warm coat or a waterproof
<diplo> Waterproof, it's not that cold outside :)
<gord> warm and take a brolly, brollys are more fun
<Azelphur> I don't want to pay Â£10 for this cable, but I can't find it anywhere else cheaper. http://www.tabletchargersandcases.co.uk/double-male-55mm-x-25mm-55x25-connect-dc-lead-cable-1816-p.asp :(
<mungojerry> he's just trying to be nice though
<popey> make one?
<gord> you can't take two others and just solder them together?
<Azelphur> don't really wanna make one, mostly because I'm lazy
<Azelphur> xD
<popey> pay the Â£10 lazy tax then :)
<awilkins> It's one of those teach-a-man-to-fish-and-buy-him-a-soldering-iron things
<Azelphur> guess so, haha
<awilkins> AlanBell, I prefer a hat to a brolly
<awilkins> AlanBell, a wide-brim hat requires no hands. And breaks less than brollies in wind. Get a crushable one and you can stuff it in your coat if it's really windy
<AlanBell> I have one
<awilkins> Plus of course, hats are cool
<AlanBell> they are
<awilkins> </drwho>
<AlanBell> https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-TOA5hh_e5Ww/T0n1VF9o7MI/AAAAAAAACCM/KxPYHEUnKFg/s480/2012-02-26+09.00.05.jpg
<Azelphur> ebay is nice and logical with it's delivery options, https://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/screenshots/2012/October/2012-10-05-161910_250x105_scrot.png
<awilkins> AlanBell, If I had a mirror in the hallway, I could take a picture strangely familiar to that one
<awilkins> For a moment, I thought it was me.
<gord> one day aliens are gonna land, find all these pictures of people holding up phones and assume its some sort of way of communicating. it'll get awkward as they hold up plastic black things at us
<AlanBell> gord: indeed, especially as they would probably be holding copies of last years iPhone
<gord> how embarassing
<AlanBell> inorite
<gord> yarly
<awilkins> "Your phone doesn't even do NFC? How are we going to swap sexual preferences?"
<davmor2> awilkins: no Bow ties are cool
<awilkins> And Stetsons
<MartijnVdS> and fezes
<diplo> Guys if anyone is still about
<diplo> thoughts
<diplo> We run a statement run that creates files with names like sp10.000.randomnumber
<diplo> We have had a code change for statements, I'm testing it.. pre code had 307 docs out
<diplo> post 304
<diplo> because of randomnumber i can't diff the files
<diplo> Any thoughts of a way of diffing them, basically has customer address/accnt number and invoices listed
<gord> if the files don't change, just md5 them
<diplo> Ooh now that's a thought, no don't change apart from filename
<diplo> cheers gord, will try that tuesday
<diplo> Offhome
<MartijnVdS> woo
<MartijnVdS> Fibre date has been re-re-re-re-determined
<MartijnVdS> it's nov-19 now
<MartijnVdS> first time it's actually moved _closer_ instead of further away :)
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: don't let them know that they'll move it twice else once back to where it was and then once further back ;)
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: Nah, cables have been under my window for over a year now.. they're really coming :)
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: everyone else in town is finally getting connected
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: they were now you just get sadtrombone.com ;)
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: flat life :(
<ch3sh1r> ping
<MartijnVdS> pong!
<ch3sh1r> ok
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: http://goo.gl/maps/CrXyl up there somewhere :)
<davmor2> Who'd of thought that turtle was the best tool to teach yourself to program?
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: what would you call a building like that in English? And a house in it?
<MartijnVdS> (you can turn around in the street view to see another one)
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: if it's 2 story homes in a block it's a maisonette if it's all single floors then it's a block of flats
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: it's all single floors
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: unless your down south then it become an appartment block because it doesn't sound like it is a council Flat :D
<MartijnVdS> ok, that's very close to what we call it in Dutch ("flat", both for the building and one single house in it)
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: it used to be "government-sponsored housing" (i.e. lower-class), but it's being sold now to "improve the neighborhood"
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: http://goo.gl/maps/AYkrN I've no idea what you are talking about :)  this is where I live and if you go further up the road it gets worse :)
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: at least I don't have to watch out for falling bags of garbage anymore ;)
<MartijnVdS> people used to throw those down from their balconies..
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: to be fair our lot are pretty good at using the shute rooms for the bins
<AlanBell> evening all
<MartijnVdS> \o AlanBell
 * AlanBell is on the third pint
 * MartijnVdS on the 0th
<MartijnVdS> My brothers made a special Bock for my dad's birthday.. had enough yesterday :)
<davmor2> night all have a great weekend
<MartijnVdS> \o
<diplo> Evening all
<diplo> Trying Quantal after being recommended
<diplo> 2 things, no sound, under sound settings all I have is dummy sound
<diplo> Second issue is, installing dropbox, linitial says that dropbox deb isn't a good package, anyone else have an issue with it ?
<popey> diplo, yeah, get dropbox from their website
<diplo> yeah i did, I can force the install
<diplo> But thought I;d ask here if it's ok to
<diplo> Got to say Quantal seems a lot faster / more refined
<popey> quiet evening
<jacobw> kinda
<directhex> everyone's busy playing borderlands 2
<Azelphur> christel: if you happen to be about, could you boot shellmix123 off #limnoria? he's mass flood highlighting and no ops are about :)
<Azelphur> sorted now
<Azelphur> has anyone got face authentication working in 12.04+ yet?
<mattt> that exists?
<dogmatic69> Azelphur: not sure about on ubuntu, but when it came out on mac you could use a photograph. Would not trust it too much.
<Azelphur> it exists, it's just broken on 12.04
<Azelphur> and yea, I know you can use a photo
#ubuntu-uk 2012-10-06
<Azelphur> ali1234: this is a shame, looks like the gnome15 developer has disappeared, no longer maintaining the project
<Azelphur> I might fork it
<ali1234> Azelphur: he put out a new version about 2 weeks ago
<Azelphur> ali1234: huh? no?
<Azelphur> ali1234: he hasn't logged in to his own website in 2 months nearly
<ali1234> oh ok
<Azelphur> ali1234: hey cool, just found out I got a mention at bitcoin conference http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmPD_YSQ--k&t=18m17s
<Azelphur> that loan was me xD
<ali1234> Azelphur: i've not been online for a week, but last i heard was nefario got in trouble over some thing that was listed
<ali1234> i think it was a GLBSE stock that wasn't done by him but by a scammer
<Azelphur> ali1234: *shrug* glbse is down atm and theres a lot of uncertainty :p
<ali1234> lol
<ali1234> what happened?
<Azelphur> ali1234: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=115669.0
<ali1234> HA
<Azelphur> indeed
<ali1234> fail
<Azelphur> oh the woes of bitcoin
<ali1234> i have no idea what any of that means
<ali1234> any update on pirate?
<Azelphur> ali1234: 12th is when that ticks for news
<Azelphur> http://pastebin.com/DVNsx7xz
<christel> morning
<czajkowski> morning
<christel> HELLO czajkowski!
<christel> czajkowski: would jon like to be in a shortfilm?
<christel> we need some extras for a scene we're filming on the 14th!
<christel> (in london)
<czajkowski> ou can ask but unsure
<czajkowski> *you
 * czajkowski is in .IE 
<czajkowski> so not in prodding distance
<christel> aah yes i forget!
<bigcalm_laptop> Good morning peeps :)
<popey> morning
<bigcalm_laptop> Hola popey
<AlanBell> morning
<bigcalm_laptop> Hi AlanBell
<popey> pip pip
<rewritable> g'day
<popey> lo
<bigcalm_laptop> I'm at a conference and yet I'm still on IRC
<popey> \o/
<AlanBell> what conference?
<bigcalm_laptop> phpnw12
<bigcalm_laptop> Up in Manchester
<bigcalm_laptop> mgdm is here as well, somewhere
<AlanBell> oh I saw some tweets from lornajane about that too
<bigcalm_laptop> :)
<MooDoo> morning all
<bigcalm_laptop> She's run off to prepare for her own talk
<AlanBell> now I know what the hashtag means :)
<bigcalm_laptop> :D
<bigcalm_laptop> AlanBell: time to spam it then ;)
<AlanBell> http://instagram.com/p/Qb1DR9p_4X/ looks busy
 * AlanBell plays spot the bigcalm_laptop 
<bigcalm_laptop> AlanBell: I'm to the far left of that photo
 * popey notes it would probably be easier to spot him if they hadn't used instagram to "improve" the picture
<AlanBell> I don't get the point of instagram
<AlanBell> lets make pictures square and worse, and sell out for billions \o/
<AlanBell> how does that plan ever succeed?
<apacheuk> morning all, quick question I've been using 12.10 on a laptop (for testing) since the first alpha, performing the updates every day... in the last two days the system has become unstable and crashes shortly afterward, I've submitted the a bug using the automated process but I noticed in the bug info that it still talks about 'alpha' version.... does applying the updates everyday not mean I'm at the latest beta or d
<apacheuk> o I have to dl that?
<AlanBell> apacheuk: if you have ben doing the updates, then you are up to date
<AlanBell> bug number?
<apacheuk> AlanBell: OK cheers... I thought so, but wanted a sanity check
<apacheuk> 1062743
<AlanBell> bug 1062743
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 1033533 in xserver-xorg-video-nouveau (Ubuntu) "duplicate for #1062743 Xorg crashed with SIGABRT: exaMemcpyBox with src=0x0 on nouveau with SW rendering" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1033533
<popey> apacheuk, any particular reason you're using nouveau and not the binary nvidia driver?
<apacheuk> popey: can't honestly remember why... I haven't used it on any of my other systems.... I don't think so anyway :)
<popey> is it a mac?
<apacheuk> no, Toshiba P100
<popey> I'd install "nvidia-current" then
<apacheuk> doing so now,
<apacheuk> cheers
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<AlanBell> do supermarkets still do printed cakes?
<popey> yes
<popey> asda do i think
<jacobw> morning
<brobostigon> morning jacobw
<ali1234> can they print a cake based on jpeg? because i would love to see marzipan jpeg artifacts
<jacobw> that's not a normal wish
<AlanBell> ali1234: I think I will find out what formats are acceptable, I did one ages ago and yes, there were jpeg artifacts
<AlanBell> it basically gets printed onto a thin icing sheet by an inkjet printer
<Laney> Going out... to buy running shoes...
<Laney> I made a rash promise to run a half marathon
<Laney> having never run more than for the bus in my life, this could be bad
<popey> :)
<jacobw> oh dear
<Laney> I have a whole year to get fit :P
<penguin42> there was a thing where Wolfram explained that he had a treadmill positioned where he could type and work on his computer while walking on it; and he had years of pedometer graphs from it
<jacobw> that's quite a long time
<jacobw> i can't imagine wolfram jogging
<penguin42> jacobw: http://blog.stephenwolfram.com/2012/03/the-personal-analytics-of-my-life/    not sure it was actually jogging
<penguin42> jacobw: The stats he gathers are amazing; timing of every keystroke he's typed for 10 years
<popey> AlanBell, a carton of tomato juice arrived :D
<penguin42> popey: How much (and how many varieties) have you drunk in the last week?
<AlanBell> popey: \o/
<popey> only one variety
<popey> 2L
<gord> Â£10 to anyone that can drink a 2L carton of tomato sauce
<czajkowski> aloha
<popey> yo czajkowski hows it going?
<czajkowski> good thanks
<czajkowski> people turned up
<czajkowski> loved marks talk
<czajkowski> lots came out going I'm going to try unity and loved the lens
<czajkowski> as he demoed how to do stuff via the dash and lens
<czajkowski> tweetng lots :)
<czajkowski> release party for London taking place http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-uk/2006/detail/ open to all to come along
<jacobw> czajkowski: the url contains events/ubuntu-uk/2006 ?
<czajkowski> yup
<czajkowski> event id
<jacobw> wolfram looks like my secondary school history teacher, it's confusing for me :(
<penguin42> haha
<jacobw> czajkowski: coincidence strikes again
<jacobw> unity 6.8 is a performance improvement
<jacobw> it seems faster to me but not smoother
<jacobw> hey hamitron, stgraber
<hamitron> evening
<hamitron> :)
<popey> jacobw, bug reports welcome
<ali1234> "it seems faster" doesn't sound like a bug to me
<jacobw> popey: which package would i file jerky window animations against?
<jacobw> popey: as far as i know, the window animations are implemented as compiz plugin, so would that be compiz-plugins-main?
<popey> if you can get it on video that would be good, but just file against comiz itself
<jacobw> ok, i'm looking at the screencast instructions now, thanks
<popey> might be better with a phone/camera
<popey> screencast might not show it up as well, or may make it worse
<ali1234> screencast definitely will make it 1 million times worse
<jacobw> the case that can reproduce is probably a caused by terminal redrawing
<popey> AlanBell, can you access the Ubuntu UK G+ page? I used to have access but no longer do
<AlanBell> yes
<popey> the UUPC one has just vanished since the last show
<popey> and all the posts have gone
<AlanBell> wow
<AlanBell> was it attached to your other G+ account?
<popey> no
<popey> i only have one G+ account
<popey> oh, hang on.. it once was
<popey> and I disabled that old account, bet that's it
<popey> balls
 * popey re-creates
<livingdaylight> hi
<livingdaylight> is there bbc iplayer for linux; a workaround?
<penguin42> livingdaylight: Should find it just works in the browser
<livingdaylight> yes, works in the browser, I mean for downloading and watching later, penguin42
<penguin42> livingdaylight: Ah there was a get-iplayer a while ago, not sure if it's still available
<popey> it still works
<livingdaylight> it still works? was that command-line only, or was there a gui front-end developed for it too?
<penguin42> I only ever used the command line one, I think there was a front end though
<popey> http://git.infradead.org/get_iplayer.git
<popey> there was
<popey> still is
<popey> git clone git://git.infradead.org/get_iplayer.git
<popey> job done
<livingdaylight> thanks !
<popey> might also need rtmpdump if you want HD download
<Darael> The get-iplayer package doesn't include the GUI but does exist, so it may be marginally easier.  I'm sure it didn't depend on flvstreamer before, but it's in the recommends now.
<exobuzz> you will need rtmpdump yeh
<ali1234> any model railway experts here?
<ali1234> i'm trying to fix an old motor from model railway. it has springs inside the motor to form a connection to power. and i have no idea why. they don't seem to serve any purpose except to fall out and get lost and prevent the thing from working
<ali1234> which is what has happened, probably 20 years ago
<Darael> Inside the actual motor, or inside the engine model forming a connection to the motor?  Most models I've seen have internal wires soldered on to the motors.
<Darael> But springs could allow for easier replacement with a non-identical motor?
<ali1234> Darael: i found a picture of an identical one online http://img441.imageshack.us/i/cimg2935.jpg/
<ali1234> you see the two brass "tabs"
<ali1234> under there is a hole
<ali1234> in the hole is a small metal peg
<ali1234> the tab doesn't touch the peg, there's a spring in each hole that maintains the contact
<ali1234> you can just see a tiny bit of it on the right hand side
<ali1234> this is what i have: http://ubuntuone.com/1BLslh5ivgt3oPSS9zwFJ1
<Darael> Hmm.  Something to do with maintaining the contact over things like points and slightly-loose track-connections that cause jolting, perhaps?  But why not just use a solid contact the whole way through?
<Darael> Nope, no idea.
<ali1234> i dunno
<ali1234> i guess it is so you can replace the motor inside without soldering
<ali1234> "somehow"
<ali1234> but the spring falls out so easy
<ali1234> and then you have a broken train. cos you have zero chance of finding it. it is tiny
<ali1234> well look at that: you can buy replacements for Â£5 http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/LIMA-Motor-Brushes-and-Springs-OO-HO-600875-/300681796833
<ali1234> that's probably more than this thing is worth
<Darael> Heh.
<ali1234> i bet i have a spring likethat in one of my junk boxes actually
<Darael> The thing to do would be to attach one end of the spring more permanently.  Probably the tab end.
<ali1234> yeah that would be smart
<ali1234> i bet they get a lot of ... i dunno corrosion from sparks
<ali1234> so they probably need replacing from time to time anyway
<Darael> Probably.  Do the attachment with a tiny bit of solder, though, and one could just melt it off again when replacement-time came.  Might be tricky to get it soldered right in the first place...
<ali1234> i guess fixing the thing all the time is the most fun thing about model trains. if it just worked and went round and round forever... it would be the most boring hobby ever
<Darael> Nah, model railways are a bit like gardens: Sometimes finished, never complete.
<Goshawk_> Hi there, how do I give myself write permission?
<Azelphur> Goshawk_: I wrote a blog post explaining permissions, http://blog.azelphur.com/node/295
<Goshawk_> Azelphur: cheers for that
<Azelphur> Goshawk_: welcome :)
<brobostigon> interesting, ubuntu-gnome remix.
<penguin42> ?
<brobostigon> penguin42: something i just found on the wiki, that is new to 12.10.
<ali1234> cool i fixed it by making my own spring from a piece of wire
<penguin42> brobostigon: Cool, I'll try that in my test vm
<brobostigon> penguin42: :)
<penguin42> (although the X server on quantal doesn't really seem to like kvm guests)
 * penguin42 wishes he would remember the syntex to apt-key for adding keys, I'm getting better but it still takes a few goes
<brobostigon> weird thing is though, i have debian unstable running gnome3, and running this of an sdhc, ubuntu-gnome with gnome3.6 seems alittle faster.
<penguin42> brobostigon: I was impressed in the speed of gnome3 running in a vm, it seems faster than unity these days
<brobostigon> penguin42: i havent tried unity in about a year. so couldnt say myself. properly.
<penguin42> brobostigon: I give it a try every so often
<brobostigon> penguin42: i used to use ubuntu woth gnome3 ppa, then went to debian-unstable with gnome3, when that ppa went out of date. so when i found this remix earlier this evening, i thought, yes, it kinda fits better, which what i was looking for.
<Goshawk_> I'm trying to install a program but it keeps telling me I don't have permission, can anyone help?
<penguin42> Goshawk_: How are you trying to install it ?
<Goshawk_> penguin42: in the terminal
<penguin42> brobostigon: Hmm, I don't get any new options on login, still just ubuntu (i.e. unity?) or Gnome
<penguin42> (or gnome classic - hmm what's that)
<brobostigon> penguin42: gnome-shell, and then gnome-fallback.
<Azelphur> I just had a clever idea for my nexus 7 xD
<brobostigon> penguin42: but like normal, ubuntu uses about double the ram of debian.
<Azelphur> My N7 is usually perm tethered to my S3 to get internet anyway, I wonder if I could run a NFS server on my S3, giving the N7 a boatload of storage
<brobostigon> Azelphur: yes, that is possible.
<Azelphur> I'm hunting for an android NFS server now, hehe
<brobostigon> :)
<Azelphur> I found a samba server, but this makes me feel sad inside
<Azelphur> do ATI cards have a VDPAU equivalent on Linux?
<ali1234> ugh i just found the instructions that explains everything about the springs + brushes
<Darael> Well done.
<penguin42> Azelphur: What's vdpau?
<Azelphur> penguin42: GPU video acceleration
<Azelphur> so you can play 1080p videos on old crappy processors
<penguin42> Azelphur: So yes I think they support the Xv stuff and other X extensions
<Azelphur> fun
<penguin42> Azelphur: Even the open driver is claiming to have XVideo and XVideo-MotionCompensation - I think there are bits glued into the GLX stuff as well but I don't really know
 * Azelphur shrugs
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: libva > vdpau
<MartijnVdS> vainfo tells you what's supported (h264, mpeg2)
<MartijnVdS> there's a backend for vdpau and one for intel (and probably ati)
<MartijnVdS> there's a gstreamer element, and vlc supports libva
<MartijnVdS> as does xbmc
<MartijnVdS> it's the New HotnessÂ©
<MartijnVdS> Â®
<Azelphur> fun
<Azelphur> I'm planning to start migrating all my stuff away from nvidia, I've had enough of them :p
<Azelphur> looks like my netbook handles N64 emulation with no issues
<Azelphur> well maybe a little choppy, probably needs some config
<mattt> heeeeeelp
<mattt> had this annoying cold for near on 7 days now :~(
<penguin42> mattt: Ah, you to
<penguin42> mattt: Started really badly last saturday, I've managed just about to work the week and still feel crap
<popey>  yeah, wifey has had that too
<Azelphur> how do I tell if I'm running fglrx or not? jockey seems to be a bit confused
<ali1234> if opencl works you're using fglrx
<ali1234> well if it works and doesn;t say "CPU"
<ali1234> i'm sure you;re familiar with that stuff :)
<ali1234> the opencl stuff is built in to the newest drivers in ubuntu i think
<ali1234> i had to go through and fix that up. you don't need the app-sdk any more
<Azelphur> is there not a command I can use to check? I'm not after setting up opencl stuff on here
<ali1234> clinfo
<ali1234> it's incuded in fglrx driver now iirc
<ali1234> you can also look at xorg.0.log
<ali1234> look for catalyst/fglrx references
<Azelphur> nope, no such package, xorg.log has some fglrx stuff so I guess I'm running proprietary even though jockey says I'm not \o/
<ali1234> hmm
<ali1234> it's real easy to mess up catalyst drivers :(
<ali1234> i think i too am going to put the 5870 into my desktop and give up mining when bitcoin subsidy cut happens
<ali1234> though nvidia might win me back if their new xrandr stuff is good
<Azelphur> ali1234: I got pissed off with nvidia big time now over the multi monitor thing
 * Azelphur is in full anti nvidia PR mode now :p
<ali1234> it always worked fine for me
<ali1234> about 3 people have >2 monitors
<penguin42> Azelphur: I'm told nouveau is getting a lot better, certainly for 2d use and multiple monitors
<ali1234> nouveau still doesn't support my card
<ali1234> it crashes within 20 minutes every time, and is marked as "unsupported, please don't report bugs"
<Azelphur> ali1234: they implemented >2 monitor support
<penguin42> erk
<Azelphur> then they bricked it to only allow 3 monitors
<Azelphur> to try and force quadro cards and GTX 680's onto people
<Azelphur> that made me mad.
<ali1234> Azelphur: yeah i heard about that. but only about 1 person has >3 monitors
 * Azelphur shrugs
<ali1234> buy a quadro card
<Azelphur> or just buy an AMD card, they don't brick the software as a marketing tactic, and they work with open devs too \o/
<ali1234> unfortunately that does not mean the drivers are any good :(
<Azelphur> indeed, hopefully they will be soon
<ali1234> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-19857243
<penguin42> ali1234: Yeh, that looks 'fun'
<ali1234> is that the one that's supposed to be secure because "we keep all your details on our secure server"
<penguin42> ali1234: I don't know
<ali1234> i wouldn't be surprised if it was related to the apple udid thing
<penguin42> why?
<penguin42> ali1234: I mean a trojan'd phone or phished account is the most likely rather than something specific to that
<ali1234> i suspect that the implementation is broken, hence them taking it offline for updates
<ali1234> just reducing the daily limit is changing one variable
<penguin42> and that's connected to the apple uuid how?
<ali1234> that doesn't require taking the service off line. scrambling to fix a broken protocol that authenticates against udid however...
<ali1234> like, suppose you only need the udid + 4 digit pin and there's no rate limiting on wrong attempts
<ali1234> you take the list of udid and try every one with the same pin. that way nobody's account gets blocked. and sometimes you get it right the first time
<ali1234> so there's no record of invalid attempts against that account
<ali1234> in fact a guy demonstrated this exact attack against telephone banking service in india
<ali1234> let me find the video
<ali1234> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-y7aIKLgMoM
<penguin42> haha that's dumb
<ali1234> so yeah basically just them taking it offline makes me really suspicious that there's a serious flaw in the implementation that can't be trivially fixed
<brobostigon> [A
<brobostigon> good night everyone, sleep well.
<penguin42> ali1234: Watching that talk, it's just dumb - I mean using your normal pin on a phone bank app is just plain stupid
<ali1234> yeah. he does some more interesting stuff with SQL injection over speech recognition later, but that is not relevant
<ali1234> to what i am saying. all i'm saying is we know it's stupid. that doesn't mean it doesn't happen :)
<ali1234> using just the pin is obviously stupid. but combining it with the udid of the user's phone looks like it adds security. until all the udids get leaked.
<ali1234> "it's Ok to use the PIN, because nobody else would have access to the user's phone anyway, so it doesn't matter"
<ali1234> or rather "they would need physical access to the phone and they need to know the pin, therefore this is two factor" - but really it isn't
<penguin42> ali1234: Yeh I think any app can read the udid so it doesn't take much, but fi you've got a good trojan'd app then it could take the pin anyway
<ali1234> yep
<ali1234> and it's probably a combination of all these things.
<penguin42> ali1234: I actually suspect it might be more of a simple phishing type case - there is a lot of phishing going on, and I've been getting lots of Natwest phishing mails recently
#ubuntu-uk 2012-10-07
<ali1234> if you only need a pin number and some person details you can just guess that
<ali1234> no need for phishing, though no reason not to do that too
<ali1234> trojan, yes
<ali1234> and just keylog everything
<ali1234> but if that were the only problem, why take it off line?
<penguin42> ali1234: It's possible it turned out to be an overly easy way for people to get the cash after they'd got the details?
<ali1234> yeah
<ali1234> but how could they fix it?
<ali1234> if they're just going to reduce the limit why take it offline?
<ali1234> weren't they having problems for the past few days actually? or was that hsbc?
<penguin42> ali1234: I think there was a beeb report about some banks having issues
<ali1234> seems very suspicious to me
<bootinfdsds> ...bored outta my brains .. anyone got any news ??
<ali1234> someone proposed to put the teletext font i made into xbmc
<ali1234> except i didn't make it, i just converted it from bitmap to ttf
<ali1234> also i had an idea to adapt my teletext recovery software for old floppy disks
<ali1234> but i don't know enough about how they are formatted
<penguin42> ali1234: Teletext recovery software? And what format of flippies?
<ali1234> teletext recovery from vhs
<ali1234> it's possible :)
<penguin42> hoho - OCR'd ?
<ali1234> no
<penguin42> oh from the header?
<ali1234> recovering the information from the VBI
<penguin42> yeh I guess later VHS machines probably have enough bandwidth to do it
<ali1234> the VHS has lower horizontal resolution so common wisdom says nyquist
<penguin42> I remember though our TV couldn't normally get the teletext while playing from vhs
<ali1234> but there's a catch. nyquist is for analogue signals and VBI is digital
<ali1234> a TV cannot do it
<penguin42> Why?
<ali1234> a VHS has about 3-4MHz bandwidth, and teletext is 6.something MHz
<penguin42> ok, so how do you recover it from vhs?
<ali1234> so the teletext signal is binary
<ali1234> when you put binary through a low pass you get a gaussian blur
<ali1234> so i take the signal from the VHS, and guess what the original was, blur it, and compare
<ali1234> then refine until i get a "best match"
<penguin42> how do you define 'best'?
<ali1234> this works quite well but is extremely slow
<ali1234> best is least mean squared difference
<ali1234> so the first few bytes of teletext line are always the same so i know what those are
<ali1234> they are 10101010101010101110010
<penguin42> ah right, but there isn't any parity or anything in the rest of the line is there?
<ali1234> so i try that + 1 and that + 0, gaussian blur both, compare to input signal, take the best, then repeat for the next byte
<ali1234> yes there is parity too and i take that into account. i don't actualyl test single bits. i test every possible value of thenext byte, rejecting anything hat would be an invalid byte
<ali1234> i scan over the whole line multiple times, three passes usually yields no further improvement
<ali1234> this isn't perfect but teletext cycles so then i combine similar lines, taking the most frequent character in lines which are "similar"
<penguin42> ali1234: Almost sounds like the PRML disk encoding type of work?
<ali1234> where "similar" is defined by an extremely complex heuristic that needs to be hand tweaked for each recording
<ali1234> not familiar with that
<ali1234> it has similarities with stuff like barcode reading from blurred camera images
<ali1234> cos teletext is like a barcode... black and white bars of varying thickness
<penguin42> ali1234: So when you say floppy recovery you mean recovering floppies from a fuzzy scan?
<ali1234> yeah. actually scan the signal as analogue, and then do the same thing. qwork out what binary data would look most like the actual read data after convolution
<ali1234> so for like 20 year old floppies that are not readable in a normal drive
<penguin42> ali1234: I suspect the type of degradation on floppy is somewhat different - it's probably more something that's bleed from neighbouring tracks?
<penguin42> (or from the other side?)
<ali1234> perhaps. there's no repetition either
<ali1234> and i would have to heavily modify a floppy to read "slowly"
<penguin42> and there is ecc
<ali1234> i use a wintv to sample the VBI and it oversamples the VCR signal by about 5x
<penguin42> ali1234: You could try using a ferrofluid and microscope to read it instead
<ali1234> well, this is really an automated version of that :)
<penguin42> I meant for floppies
<ali1234> the idea is basicallyjust oversample and then develop heuristics
<ali1234> i got some results: http://al.robotfuzz.com/~al/teletext/bbc1/19961225/
<bootinfdsds> http://www.manx.net/tv/mt-tv/watch/7128/mark-shuttleworth
<ali1234> i made the font for that too
<ali1234> that's from about 2 hours of VHS, which took a month to process
<ali1234> nothing at all was visible with a normal TV
<penguin42> impressive
<ali1234> the result is basically perfect
<ali1234> there's even more tricks though
<ali1234> common page headers are fuzzy matched for example
<penguin42> yeh or when the same page comes around multiple times you might try matching
<ali1234> yeah it does do that
<penguin42> neat
<ali1234> it's all under vhs-teletext on github
<penguin42> ali1234: Sounds like a job for a gpu to do multiple tries in parallel?
<ali1234> yes very much so
<ali1234> i tried but i couldn't get it to run faster
<ali1234> but i've never really done opencl etc
<penguin42> me neither
<ali1234> it's all done with numpy and scipy which are pretty fast and optimized from what i gather
<ali1234> maybe one day they'll just use opencl natively
<penguin42> anything with py in the name seems unlikely to be fast
<ali1234> well yes, but numpy/scipy is specifically designed to make array operations/convolutions etc really fast
<penguin42> anyway, bed!
<penguin42> nn
<recaptchacapcha> asdf
<recaptchacapcha> gdf
<recaptchacapcha> adfg
<recaptchacapcha> hdg
<recaptchacapcha> df
<recaptchacapcha> hgfd
<recaptchacapcha> SDDDDDDDDDDDDDD=============================================================================================
<recaptchacapcha> SDDDDDDDDDDDDDD=============================================================================================
<recaptchacapcha> SDDDDDDDDDDDDDD=============================================================================================
<recaptchacapcha> SDDDDDDDDDDDDDD=============================================================================================
<recaptchacapcha> SDDDDDDDDDDDDDD=============================================================================================
<recaptchacapcha> SDDDDDDDDDDDDDD=============================================================================================
<recaptchacapcha> SDDDDDDDDDDDDDD=============================================================================================
<recaptchacapcha> SDDDDDDDDDDDDDD=============================================================================================
<recaptchacapcha> SDDDDDDDDDDDDDD=============================================================================================
<MartijnVdS> !ops
<lubotu3> Help!  dgjones, Myrtti, Mez, jono, popey, Gary, Seeker`, Daviey, PriceChild or X3N
<MartijnVdS> oh he's gone already
<christel> oh charming
<christel> (good morning)
<czajkowski> aloha
<MooDoo> morning all :D
<MooDoo> morning czajkowski
<AlanBell> morning
<MooDoo> morning AlanBell
<christel> MooDoo! \o/
<MooDoo> christel: <3 o/
<christel> how are you? long time no taaalk
<MooDoo> christel: yes i'm fine, lost my way a little with linux, but trying to get back into it slowely
<popey> morning
<christel> :)
<christel> lo popey
<MooDoo> morning alan
<jacobw> morning
<MooDoo> popey: i'm guessing you don't have to shave your hair off now then ;)
<popey> :)
<MartijnVdS> popey: today's sound track (you liked Akufen, right? :)): http://open.spotify.com/album/4qzJV2qpd93F2Y5SkCfo8K
<MartijnVdS> This has some similarities
 * jacobw watches the stephen fry interview
<popey> listening, thanks MartijnVdS
<jacobw> ha "it's amazing how dumb some people are"
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<jacobw> hey brobostigon
<jacobw> how's it going?
<brobostigon> jacobw: ji, not bad, waking up, and uyou?
<jacobw> normal sunday here
 * MartijnVdS did some Sunday javascripting
<brobostigon> jacobw: ok :)
<jacobw> MartijnVdS: ++
<kingcrimson> How can I remove a package and all of its configuration?
<kingcrimson> And then reinstall the package cleanly?
<MartijnVdS> you'll have to remove the config in your home dir manually
<MartijnVdS> kingcrimson: "apt-get purge package_name_here"
<MartijnVdS> kingcrimson: that removes the package + all config
<kingcrimson> Hm - I've tried that.  It's for kerberos (Don't ask I'm just messing about!)
<MartijnVdS> kingcrimson: dpkg -S /etc/config_file_thats_broken
<MartijnVdS> that shows the package the config file is in
<kingcrimson> OK
<MartijnVdS> you can then purge + reinstall that..
<kingcrimson> Thanks I'll try that
<brobostigon> !info ubuntu-gnome-desktop
<lubotu3> Package ubuntu-gnome-desktop does not exist in precise
<brobostigon> !info ubuntu-gnome-desktop quantal
<lubotu3> ubuntu-gnome-desktop (source: ubuntu-gnome-meta): The Ubuntu GNOME Remix desktop system. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.2 (quantal), package size 3 kB, installed size 26 kB
<kingcrimson> Ah whoops my own fault - there is a seperate package for config...
<kingcrimson> Why do users in ubuntu have the same group name as user name?  Wouldn't it make sense to put them in the users group?
<jacobw> kingcrimson: the named group is the primary group only, a user can be any number of secondary groups
<kingcrimson> But why have a group for every user?
<MartijnVdS> so a user doesn't inadvertently create files readable for others
<MartijnVdS> mostly
<MartijnVdS> (that can be solved with umask, but one tiny mistake..)
<jacobw> i've read that reason and another reason that makes even more sense that i've forgotten :(
<MartijnVdS> http://www.oreillynet.com/onlamp/blog/2006/09/using_user_private_groups.html
<MartijnVdS> http://www.redhat.com/docs/manuals/linux/RHL-9-Manual/ref-guide/s1-users-groups-private-groups.html
<MartijnVdS> http://www.redhat.com/docs/manuals/enterprise/RHEL-5-manual/Deployment_Guide-en-US/s1-users-groups-private-groups.html
<MartijnVdS> Those are wikipedia refs
<kingcrimson> Which wiki article?
<MartijnVdS> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filesystem_permissions#User_private_group
<kingcrimson> Thanks
<MartijnVdS> When each user has their own group, umask can be set to 0002, which makes all files group-writeable
<kingcrimson> I'll have a read
<kingcrimson> Right
<MartijnVdS> so if you add two users to a third group (to collaborate on something, say), the files they make can be read _and written_ by both users
<MartijnVdS> without fiddling with the umask or chmod all the time
<MartijnVdS> jacobw: ^ that seems to be the other reason?
<jacobw> yeah, that's it
<kingcrimson> Hmm that's a good reason
<kingcrimson> Problem solved - I was just scratching my head and wondering why I shouldn't just change all users primary group to users
<jacobw> you can grant access to all your files by adding another user to your group
<kingcrimson> (I only a sysadmin at home so it doesn't really matter but worth thinking about)
<jacobw> for one user only, or more than one user, but not all users at the same time unintentionally
<jacobw> hmm, i've never tried dia before, it's actually quite good
<brobostigon> nomnom, ham and goats cheese toasties.:)
 * AlanBell updates http://ubuntu-uk.org/free-cds/
<AlanBell> now taking pre-orders for 12.10
<penguin42> AlanBell: But what are you going to get the chicken?
<AlanBell> probably Ubuntu Server again
<penguin42> AlanBell: I guess they run a flock rather than a cluster or cloud?
<AlanBell> Bug #1063043
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 1063043 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Inaccessible Installer for 12.10" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1063043
<penguin42> AlanBell: Marked it high
<Azelphur> Anyone here in UK with a three "Ultimate Internet SIM 200" plan? does tethering work for you without the bolt-on? :P
<SuperEngineer> watch out, watch out, there's a /me about ;)
<AlanBell> thanks penguin42, I have just reproduced it
<SuperEngineer> AlanBell: for other reasons, I was thinking of a reporting similar bug re 12.04 installer
<SuperEngineer> it will not allow full control on a netbook due to sceen size vs dialogue size at the "something else" choice for partitioning
<AlanBell> alt+click drag to move the top of the installer window off the top of the screen
<AlanBell> possibly
<SuperEngineer> try getting someone to do that while you're going through the install remotely
<AlanBell> yeah, netbook screen resolution just isn't supported very well
<SuperEngineer> however - user [dearest sis] is v. happy with her "new" 12.04 netbook [was running 10.04]
<AlanBell> Bug 741869 is a total pita
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 741869 in OEM Priority Project precise "Unity/compiz intercepts Super and Alt keypresses from grabbed windows like VMs." [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/741869
<AlanBell> dunno how people at Canonical cope with that one
<SuperEngineer> especially when Unity [deliberately?] kills Gnome-Do  <super-space> in normal mode, let alone a VM
 * SuperEngineer slaps own wrist
<SuperEngineer> Has anyone heard anything up to date [beyond April'12 ] re Gwibber plug-in for G+ ?
<SuperEngineer> Either I can no longer summon my google-foo or my lp-foo or there *is* no more news
<AlanBell> I guess that is waiting for a G+ writeable API
<SuperEngineer> cheers AlanBell
<ali1234> that bug still isn't fixed?
<Laney> http://ubuntu-uk.org/ircstats/
<Laney> seems stuck
<Azelphur> how comes I have no idea who the person who is #2 is
<Azelphur> sorry, #3
<popey> i paused it
<popey> pisg was eating the box alive
<Azelphur> ah
<MartijnVdS> aww
<MartijnVdS> we talk too much :)
<Azelphur> indeed
<Azelphur> does anyone know if three currently employs any tethering detection methods? :p
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: come to .nl, net neutrality law forbids tethering detection ;)
<MartijnVdS> well not detection.. but acting on it ;)
<penguin42> wow !
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: I want to go to there :(
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: But do you still get cheap 'unlimited' mobile contracts?
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: no, but we didn't get those before either
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: When providers got rid of those plans, and announced further bans on Skype/voip stuff, politicians suddenly acted :)
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: Hmm, see I get a 20GBP/6 months payg phone payment for internet, that limits certain types of stuff to 500MB/month but says unlimited web
<MartijnVdS> Someone complained to the "advertising authority" about the "Unlimited*" plans some are offering again now
<MartijnVdS> because they're "Unlimited as long as you don't use a lot"
<MartijnVdS> which is.. strange
<penguin42> yeh they're a bit odd; this one is very badly defined but seems OK for my use; and at that cost I can't really argue
<MartijnVdS> I have a 400MB plan, but I tend to use only 250-300
<MartijnVdS> WOohoo, libvirt + kvm + a bunch of bridges = fun
<MartijnVdS> I can now create a VM that can only see one VLAN
<penguin42> yeh that's the idea
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: Probably be a good thing to do a write up of that setup
<MartijnVdS> I had to poke around with ebtables to get the "default" vlan bridge to work (the "untagged" one)
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: hm. yeah
 * MartijnVdS revives his blogger page
<Laney> gah
<Laney> if I have a USB stick in (to boot from), my computer ignores all keypresses at bios
<penguin42> Laney: Sigh, I've seen a machine do that
<penguin42> Laney: I had to go hunting for a PS/2 keyboard last week and realised the only one was my own Model M, all the old keyboards had been chucked
<Laney> uncool
<penguin42> yeh
<Laney> could be worse than a model m though
 * Laney will just burn a DVD
<Laney> want to test if the installer will be able to assemble my mdraid volume
 * Laney eyes xnox
<penguin42> Laney: Well the problem was I'd already burnt a CD and a DVD and both had bad blocks on them annoyingly far into the install, so then went to thumd drive
<penguin42> Laney: What hardware ?
<Laney> it's a p877-v
<penguin42> oh completely different
<Laney> ffs, would you believe that i only have cd-rs and not dvds :(
<penguin42> Laney: It always happens that way
<Laney> yay got it to boot from usb
<penguin42> Laney: When it takes 4 or 5 attempts to install a machine it's always very very frustrating
<Laney> nah this is going to be sweet
<Laney> straight in, bish bash bosh robert is your mother's brother
<MartijnVdS> or your father's brother
<Laney> actually robert is my father
<Laney> and my father's sister's husband
<MartijnVdS> your father married his sister?!
<Laney> not the same pers
<Laney> damn
<Laney> faster than me
<popey> \o/ pancakes
<MartijnVdS> canpakes!
<popey> Sam just said "We should have these every day!"
<MartijnVdS> Good idea Sam!
 * popey explains netherlands to the kids
<popey> MartijnVdS, do you play minecraft? (Sam wants to know)
<MartijnVdS> popey: I do not
<penguin42> what exactly have you been telling them about the Netherlands?
<popey> "Maybe he's like 'What _is_ minecraft!?'"
<MartijnVdS> popey: how could I not know what minecraft is, with you and my coworkers talking about it all the time :)
<popey> :)
<popey> "Coooool"
<MartijnVdS> http://www.reddit.com/r/fossworldproblems/
<MartijnVdS> popey: http://i.imgur.com/8bUjL.jpg
 * Laney immediately removes everything apart from FF, home folder, workspace switcher from default launcher
<Laney> ah, that new install smell
<penguin42> popey: It's a shade of green isn't it?
<popey> hmm?
<penguin42> popey: Minecraft
<popey> uhm
 * MartijnVdS has home folder, chrome, terminal
<penguin42> seem to get loads of 'minecraft themed' things that are just green and box shaped with a bit of brown splodgyness on
<directhex> so who wants to port https://github.com/jlyonsmith/XnaBuildContent to linux?
<MartijnVdS> .. you?
<MartijnVdS> XNA sounds like an IBM network thing
<directhex> token ring?
<daftykins> 0o
<daftykins> hey directhex - hope the sprog birth went well assuming it hath been and gone! :)
<directhex> oh, yeah, ancient history
<daftykins> i've been away a while :)
<ali1234> directhex: what does that stuff actually do? what does "content building" mean?
<MartijnVdS> it leverages synergetic community processes!
<ali1234> what is "XNA content"
<ali1234> is it like textures and meshes?
<ali1234> looks like it
<Laney> http://ubuntuone.com/2N0ruoYYAjAP1vyRSa9Y15
<Laney> ssd â¥
<directhex> ali1234, my understanding, and i could be wrong, is that XNA has a file format for game resources - i believe "xnb" - so content building would be the procedure for compiling an xnb from source formats
<ali1234> yeah. it looks like mshtml all over again
<MartijnVdS> or wmf
<ali1234> no, not wmf
<ali1234> well, maybe
<ali1234> arguably, avi
<MartijnVdS> emf then?
<Laney> Windows Metafile
<ali1234> oh yeah, i was thinking of wmv
<ali1234> well, WMF is nothing like this. this is basically a proprietary zip file afaict
<MartijnVdS> \o/ NIH
<directhex> hm, i dunno, the description i'm reading makes it sound like the xnb file is a serialized .net object
<MartijnVdS> There are 2 versions of ASF. 1.0, the used and unpublished format. And 2.0, which is the published and unused format.
<MartijnVdS> Go wiki.multimedia.cx :)
<directhex> which sounds more like WMF than i thought :p
<ali1234> hmm
<directhex> http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb447756.aspx
<ali1234> but any file can be "unserialized" into it's component parts
<ali1234> eg a text file with a list of numbers... you could say that's a serialized array
<directhex> well, sure, i think the point is you can treat the assets in an xnb as/with code directly
<ali1234> a zip file is a serialized zip object... or at least if you implemented zip/unzip in an object oriented language, it would be
<ali1234> "content document object model"
<ali1234> ok, i don't want to read any more of this
<ali1234> it's clearly insane
<ali1234> it's one of those systems which has been designed to be so generic that it ends up doing absolutely nothing to reduce the amount of work you have to do, and it just ends up as another barrier to doing what you need to do.
 * popey stabs windows
<directhex> it's also used by a bunch of existing xna games. so either we port the content pipeline generation stuff, or those games need the content to be compiled on windows
<ali1234> what are the barriers to porting it?
<directhex> e.g. reasonably sure that xnb files wouldn't be considered acceptable in a source package
<ali1234> i mean has anyone even checked to see if it just works?
<directhex> there's an idea
<directhex> huh, a cproj. didn't think xbuild did g++ stuff
<popey> stupid windows anytime upgrade failed due to sp1 being half installed
 * SuperEngineer celebrates his first Ubuntu1 referal upgrade ;)
<popey> bah, sp1 fails to install when other disks are in the machine
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: pressured your parents into it eh?
<MartijnVdS> popey: Weird!
<popey> following some online guide on ms.com
<popey> seems known issue
<SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: nah! spent some time whilst on sanity in Dartmouth removing sister's 10.04 & pushing her onto to 12.04... she was grateful ;)
<SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: so grateful that she's noe thinkiong of having me move her Windows desktop to Ubuntu!
<MartijnVdS> cool :)
<SuperEngineer> that leaves just one target I set myself left to achieve...
<MartijnVdS> and then?
<MartijnVdS> back to alcohol?
<SuperEngineer> I provide a lot of support around this area for pooter newbies
 * popey tries to install SP1 again and goes to get a bloody mary to make it easier
<MartijnVdS> popey: try a virgin screwdriver instead!
<SuperEngineer> one was a gut older than dinosaurs who bought a laptop from Pc World [spit] with windows7 on it....
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: windows 7 -- must be recent then :)
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: He has a lot of tomato juice to drink
<SuperEngineer> I agreed to support him as long as agreed to get jealous of me running Ubuntu on a netbook faster than he was running & on his laptop...
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: so.. a virgin bloody mary? :)
<SuperEngineer> ....he's jealous & getting tempted ;)
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: "virgin screwdriver" = vodka + orange juice - vodka :)
<SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: "virgin screwdriver" = vodka in the hands of a mechanical apprentice
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: let's not reinforce stereotypes
<SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: ;)
<popey> \o/ sp1 installing
<ali1234> xp sp1?
<SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: p.s re pressured your parents - hmmm only with a grave digging-up shovlk methinks.  How old do you think I am for Chrisake ;)
<ali1234> also, there's a referals for U1?
<popey> Win7 SP1
<popey> and yes, there is
<ali1234> so the people i refer have to get a paid account?
<SuperEngineer> ali1234: nope - just refer them
<ali1234> cool
<daftykins> far better to install Windows from already SP1'd media
<daftykins> you can get links to legit media from mydigitallife google results
<popey> that option wasn't available to me
<popey> woot, now the anytime upgrade works
<ali1234> mydigitallife isn't legit??
<ali1234> is it?
<daftykins> ali1234: it links to the digitalriver mirrors
<daftykins> i.e. MS' official ones
<ali1234> ah
<daftykins> you can get Office versions the same way - handy for sorting peoples PCs
<ali1234> i just get the md5sums from a tech blog and then get the isos from torrents
<popey> oh ffs, failed again
<daftykins> what's failing?
<popey> windows anytime upgrade
<popey> home premium to professional
<ali1234> why do you even need that?
<daftykins> system got internet connectivity?
<popey> it does
<popey> corp network stuff
<daftykins> i install from flash drive these days - deleting the ei.cfg file in \sources lets you pick the right flavour without even entering a key
<popey> I dont fancy installing again
<daftykins> just this past hour done a reinstall of a laptop here in fact
<daftykins> yeah, more power to you for next time though
<ali1234> if they have a corporate network, don't they have corporate support?
<ali1234> (to do this for you)
<popey> no
 * popey stabs CTRL+W
<ali1234> speaking or corporate stuff
<ali1234> i have a problem with a radius server
<ali1234> client has a NAS and a VPN firewall in front of it
<ali1234> the NAS has all the users set up on it, and exports them on radius
<ali1234> the VPN picks up the users from radius
<popey> oh, 5 more updates and a reboot after sp1
<popey> jeez, i thought they'd fixed this update/reboot cycle
<daftykins> haha, nope 121+
<ali1234> that works, but the NAS says this: "RADIUS server only supports PAP, EAP-TLS/PAP, and EAP-TTLS/PAP authentication schemes for system user accounts."
<daftykins> (after SP1, and IE9)
<directhex> popey, lollerskates no. windows update is pain
<ali1234> and when we try to cnnect the VPN, it only works if you disable encryption
<ali1234> also ubuntu can't connect at all, because it won't allow you to disable the unsupported login methods
<ali1234> not that they use ubuntu
<ali1234> but... does anyone know ... which login methods should work with this, with encryption enabled?
<ali1234> there's about 10 different types ...
<popey> right, no more updates showing
<popey> only optional ones. bing desktop (no thanks), silverlight, (not needed), and some hardware updates..
<popey> s/hardware/driver/
<popey> lets see if anytime works now
<popey> oh yay! activate again!?
 * Darael mutters imprecations at irssi-plugin-xmpp
<popey> only did this like an hour ago, typing lengthy codes into a phone then typing more lengthy codes into my pc
<daftykins> yeah that process is ridiculous
<daftykins> at least it's better than it used to be in early XP days, no having to talk to a rep and convince them you have it installed only on one PC to start
<SuperEngineer> ali1234: sorry it took so long to find it: https://one.ubuntu.com/help/faq/referral-program-terms/
<popey> oh, i put the wrong key in, the one from the box, it wants the anytime key
<ali1234> SuperEngineer: popey already answered ages ago, but thanks
<SuperEngineer> ali1234: whoops!  too busy trying to find link ;)
<ali1234> SuperEngineer: it's only 500MB a pop, i thought it was 500GB... which they probably wouldn't give away for free :)
<popey> bah, looks like i need to phone them
<daftykins> gotta love this one of a Windows install
<daftykins> http://i.imgur.com/EgOlD.png
<ali1234> yep, it always says that first time, even on a windows 7 sp1 install
<daftykins> yeah i'm not saying i'm new to it
<popey> bah, i have to do the phone thing _again_ !?
<popey> this is mental
<daftykins> :)
<daftykins> *enters laptop's COA sticker key and activates*
<daftykins> it's far easier not to be legit with Windows
<daftykins> but i've not been a poor kid for a long time so i like legal :)
<popey> this is all a pukka install
<Laney> rewarded for your custom
<popey> boxed copy and an online purchased anytime upgrade
<popey> yeah
<daftykins> yeah i'm not claiming it isn't
<daftykins> just find it amusing how staying legit is harder
<popey> right, so activated again..
<popey> "The upgrade key is not valid"
<popey> magic
<directhex> my favourite windows experience lately: if you do Users on a non-C:\ drive, it works. however, if you have a folder named Users.bak on the target drive, it merges it into the newly created Users.
<daftykins> how useful
<daftykins> or did you not want that? :)
<SuperEngineer> popey: if you need help, I can recommend an sys that won't give you all this trouble.  It's called Ubuntu... apparently it's rather good!
 * SuperEngineer runs for cover :)
<popey> unhelpful
<directhex> daftykins, of course i didn't farking want that, it rolled all the old desktop icons & things into the new user! disaster!
<daftykins> :D
<popey> well, that was a waste of time
<daftykins> still not playing ball?
<popey> nope, says my key is invalid
<popey> nothing I can do at this point
<popey> yay, now my live account doesn't work
<daftykins> sorry for the stupid question, but are you using the anytime upgrade app/link or the change product key one?
<popey> i am using the wizard thing
<Laney> what's louis walsh done?
<Laney> much outrage on facebook
<popey> no idea
<popey> aaargh
 * popey gives up
<daftykins> i wonder if you can feed an anytime upgrade key to an edition of the right version you're going *to*
<daftykins> probably not, but i'd be curious nonetheless
<Darael> daftykins: Nope.  Tried it before, when reinstalling, in an attempt to cut a step out.  Didn't work.
<daftykins> ah :)
<daftykins> well there y'go
<daftykins> thanks for the heads up
<Darael> No worries.
<popey> wtf, I just rebooted and now it's running win 7 professional!
<daftykins> ;)
<daftykins> i nearly suggested a restart. after you did the first fiddle the relevant services would no doubt have needed a refresh
<Darael> Microsoft was secretly started in a decades-long plot to massively confuse popey.  Clearly.
<daftykins> :D
<jacobw> s/popey/world/
<Azelphur> I think I just officially got the worst apology ever in the history of anything
<Azelphur> "I'm sorry I was rude to you yesterday, even though you was wrong and it was entirely your fault"
 * jacobw copies to 'lines to use later' book
<Azelphur> xD
<daubers> \o/ Just managed to create a terrible backronym for some webstuff I'm working on
<Darael> Oh?  Prey, tell.
<daubers> It's now called the Project Management Suite
<Darael> Beaten to it in the software world:  There's the PS3 Media Server.
<daubers> Don't care :p
<Darael> It's still well done.
<Darael> Or horribly badly done, depending how one looks at it.\
<daubers> Muahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahaha
<daubers> For some reason dispersible asprin + caffeine + sugar makes me laugh like a maniac
<Darael> Hmmm.  Eight out of ten on the maniacal laugh.
<daubers> I used to have many arguments about whether you should start Mwahahahaha or Muahahahaha
<daubers> seemed a bit symantically silly really
<Darael> Then there's the Bwahahahaha school...
<daubers> Now Bwahahahahaha always seemed to hint at a bit of a lower class insane genius
<daubers> Muahahahaha has an air of eccentricity
<jacobw> bwa(ha)+, seriously??
<jacobw> it's so mwa(ha)+
<Darael> I've seen it.  Doesn't mean I agree with it.
<czajkowski> aloha
<AlanBell> o/
<daubers> 22:00 in the Big Ubuntu-UK house and all sanity has been lost
<AlanBell> how was skynet?
<AlanBell> is judgement day inevitable?
<daubers> Why the hell didn't I realise that super+tab is better than alt+tab these days
<popey> it is?
<Darael> Because it's not been very-loudly-and-widely talked about and it's not particularly discoverable save by accident?
<daubers> When i'm trying to target a specific app it's better (rather than previous window)
<ali1234> and because most people don't use either of them anyway
<AlanBell> I guess you are supposed to click on the launcher icon, or touch it on a touchscreen
<SuperEngineer> ..well you could do that i suppose... but what's wrong with just pointing at it from the other side of the room & have it open... works for me
 * bigcalm slithers back from phpnw12
<Darael> SuperEngineer: Most people can't point with sufficient accuracy?
<SuperEngineer> ;)
<ali1234> users won't remember keyboard shortcuts, read instructions written on the screen, and half of them can't even click on a button smaller than 100x100
 * SuperEngineer remembers bathroom window is still open - points at window, window closes ;)
<Darael> Bah, users, who'd have 'em.
<ali1234> if you can do any of those things you're probably the local computer expert
<Darael> Don't forget "use a search engine effectively for things other than finding sites one already knows the name of".
<Darael> A bit wordy.  But something the modal user doesn't seem to be able to do, certainly.
<AlanBell> yeah, still hurts to see people type bbc.co.uk into google
<SuperEngineer> I asked someone why they did exactly that... they're reply: 2because it works"... hmmmm
<SuperEngineer> *because
<plums> connect
<Darael> That's probably the real reason for Chrom{e,ium}'s "omnibox".
<Darael> Because people don't consistently use either the search box or the address bar as intended, even when they get the difference.
 * SuperEngineer was up and about at 4 a.m. - time for bed now... see yous all later folkies
 * SuperEngineer points at bed... bed floats to SuperEngineer 
<SuperEngineer> ;)
<brobostigon> family guy, star wars special, bbc3, :), stewie as vader, lol. :)
<brobostigon> nos da everyone, sleep well.
<daftykins> i tried to tell students of their craziness searching for domains too, horrifying really :S
<Darael> In a lot of academic settings the web is already URL-filtered.  Create a block page that picks up anything that looks like a Google search string with q=<some regex to match a domain> and tells them "that is not what a search engine is for"?  Cruel, but amusing and good for them.
<daftykins> ;)
<daftykins> makes me wonder where things'll get to, once almost everything is simplified
 * BigRedS believes that transferring tedious work to the computer is a good thing
<daftykins> not sure that googling domains counts there though :D
<Darael> Googling domains /increases/ number of clicks needed.
<BigRedS> Well, yes, but I very much like the idea of one bar which I type into and it gives me what I asked for
<BigRedS> whether that's a domain or a search string
<daftykins> yeah, that part does help
<Darael> Hence the chrom{e,ium} omnibox.  Or, indeed, the functionality that Firefox has had for ages that does much the same thing.
<daftykins> me and Darael are more speaking of those that open a browser, probably type 'google' into the address bar, click google US/UK then type say, bbc, then hit that result ;)
<Darael> And, considering they've rarely changed the default search provider, they're probably going through Bing to get to Google.
<daftykins> ja!
<Darael> So it's addressbar*click*->"google"->*click* on "go"->*click* link to Google->*click* search box->type domain->*click* "Google Search"->*click* link to site.
<Darael> In the worst case.
<Darael> Which is six clicks and two rounds of typing for something that could be one or no clicks and one lot of typing.
<Darael> It would appear I've picked up the habit of using <enter> as punctuation.  Oh, dear.
<daftykins> >:)
<daftykins> i won't hold it against you... yet
#ubuntu-uk 2013-09-30
<Myrtti> go'morron
<MartijnVdS> \o
<MartijnVdS> I'm like this: http://xkcd.com/1271/
<damon> ug
<DJones> Morning
<DJones> Would anybody recommend a particular make/model/provider for a mifi, I'm contemplating getting one but don't know much about them, ideally a payG one were the bandwidth allowance doesn't expire after a set time, so if I only use it occasionally, the bandwidth isn't going to vanish if not used
<directhex> they all have expiry
<directhex> the question is how long the expiry is
<directhex> the longest option is a 12-month prepay
<directhex> which three do for Â£109, with the dongle and 12G of bandwidth
<directhex> EE you get 90 days and 6GB for Â£90
<DJones> By choice, I'd ratehr buy one with an amount of prepaid bandwidth and just top up when it runs out
<directhex> t-mobile and orange don't do PAYG on a mifi
<DJones> A bit a to think about then
<directhex> three: http://store.three.co.uk/view/product/ql_catalog/threecatdevice/2566 (Pay As You Go +12) option on the right
<directhex> ee: http://shop.ee.co.uk/alcatel-y800-mobile-wifi/all/details/?type=payg
<directhex> o2: 2gb, Â£58, 30 day expiry. https://www.o2.co.uk/shop/hotspots/zte-mf60/o2-pocket-hotspot/
<directhex> vodapony: 2gb, Â£45, 30 day expiry. http://www.vodafone.co.uk/shop/dongles-and-mobile-wi-fi/index.htm
<DJones> The three one looks about the best option out of those in terms of length and bandwidth
<directhex> virgin don't do mifi, or payg mobile broadband
<directhex> those are your options, really
<DJones> Wonder if giffgaff do anything
<DJones> Doesn't appear so
<MooDoo> morning all
<DJones> Thanks for the suggestions, out of all of them three looks the most cost effective
<DJones> Now for my next task, finding out if a G3S screen can be replaced
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<MooDoo> morning
<Myrtti> bigcalm: did you get a new microwave oven yet?
<Myrtti> popey: ahihi new socks â¥
<bigcalm> Myrtti: I did indeed. No idea if it's any good though. It's still in its box in the sitting room
<Myrtti> bigcalm: which one did you get then? I'm intrigued
 * bigcalm goes to look :)
<bigcalm> Myrtti: http://www.tesco.com/direct/tricity-tfmg2312-23l-800w-microwave-with-grill/215-1914.prd
<bigcalm> Tesco had a lot of different models on display but only a few actually available to buy
<Myrtti> ooh, looks spiffing
<bigcalm> Looks like a microwave to me. I hope it lasts longer than the last one (by Tesco). That died after 5 years
<MartijnVdS> My IKEA one has a 10-year warranty I think
<directhex> the timer dial on my samsung is sorta dead, so when you try to turn the time down it turns up instead, sometimes
<MartijnVdS> loose contact somewhere?
 * MartijnVdS hands directhex a soldering iron
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Nautilus Commissioning Day! :-D
 * MartijnVdS starts a file manager instance
<JamesTait> MartijnVdS, it was the first thing that came to my mind as well.
<bigcalm> As it's Monday morning, I think that people should test http://cuth.eu:18080/ is still coping with multiple users
<jussi> bigcalm: what is that?
<bigcalm> jussi: node.js with socket.io - keeping a socket open to multiple users and broadcasting data between them
<jussi> interesting...
 * AlanBell is looking at websockets too, but with PHP on the back end
<gordonjcp> bigcalm: connected, can't see anyone else
<bigcalm> gordonjcp: oh? What web browser are you using?
<jussi> stupd webdesigners/sysadmins are stupid...
<jussi> seriously, who is the idiot that still requires me to input www. into the address?
<MartijnVdS> jussi: when you find them, tell them about http://no-www.org/
<Seeker`> jussi: but how will they know you want the website without the 'www'?!?!?!
<jussi> Seeker`: sssh :P :P
<Monotoko> mornin'
<bigcalm> I've hijacked the conversation by moving it to a web browser ;)
<jussi> anyone know what /etc/default/rcS is for?
<jussi> (got asked about it on my saucy upgrade)
<MartijnVdS> jussi: to quote the script:
<MartijnVdS> jussi: # Default settings for the scripts in /etc/rcS.d/
<MartijnVdS> jussi: # For information about these variables see the rcS(5) manual page.
<jussi> ahh
<jussi> well then
<jussi> NAME
<jussi>        rcS - variables that affect the behavior of boot scripts
<jussi> that kinda says it all
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<MooDoo> morning brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo
<MooDoo> :) upgraded to saucy the other day, anyone with an nvidia adapter in a laptop done it yet?  I'm curious about something
<brobostigon> :)
<davmor2> Morning all
<MooDoo> morning davmor2
<brobostigon> morning davmor2
<davmor2> Is it just me or did anyone else blink and miss the weekend?
<MooDoo> davmor2: you meant it's not friday?
<MooDoo> ffs
 * MartijnVdS has a day off.. preparing for a new job tomorrow
<davmor2> MooDoo: no unfortunately,  You'll have to remember not to blink till Monday
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: ohhhhhhhhhhhh, what's the new job?
<MartijnVdS> http://www.dontblinktees.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/designthumb_kcadb-original.png
<MooDoo> oh congrats MartijnVdS
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: Going to be a lead dev for transip (VPS hoster/website hoster/DNS/domain name registration thingy)
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS: you mean an ISP ;)
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: I used to work for an ISP -- thousands of DSL/fibre connections and a bit of webhosting
<MooDoo> :)
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: this one is the other half of ISP-land, VPSes, web hosting, etc and no dsl/fibre/etc :)
<MooDoo> yay
<TheOpenSourcerer> Congrats MartijnVdS
<MartijnVdS> Old company wanted to get rid of all devs
<MartijnVdS> So I started looking for a new job
<MartijnVdS> One week after I signed the contract.. "Yeah.. we're not going to outsource development"
<MartijnVdS> (for at least 6 more months..)
<MartijnVdS> anyway.. excited for tomorrow ;)
<AlanBell> why doesn't ubuntu have /tmp mounted as tmpfs by default?
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: because sometimes you want to store things in /tmp that are larger than RAM
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: it's only mounted as tmpfs if / is full on boot
<AlanBell> nope, it gets mounted as overflow if / fills up
<AlanBell> and then you are cool for a week, then strange things happen when mysql can't use it
<AlanBell> because the 1M overflow mounted /tmp runs out of space
<AlanBell> so top tip, sort out tmp or just reboot after fixing a disk space problem
<TheOpenSourcerer> Big Ubuntu desktop installation: https://joinup.ec.europa.eu/community/osor/news/french-gendarmerie-open-source-desktop-lowers-tco-40
<popey> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GendBuntu
<popey> i saw ubuntu on Rymans stationers on the weekend
<TheOpenSourcerer> Cool.
<davmor2> popey: on what?
<popey> a pc
<TheOpenSourcerer> That's a massive install - will be ~75k machines.
<popey> the in store people were using it for booking DHL pickups
<davmor2> popey: haha
<popey> those close/max/min buttons really stick out â»
<TheOpenSourcerer> When popey uses â» I am always reminded of the Black & White Minstrel Show.
<davmor2> TheOpenSourcerer: hahaha
<popey> â¹
<davmor2> TheOpenSourcerer: you are an evil man because of course that's all I'll see now too,  Along with the Ma'amy how I love ya sound track :D
<MooDoo> and the jazz hansd
<TheOpenSourcerer> lol - that was such an "un-PC" programme when you look back at it now. Amazing.
<davmor2> TheOpenSourcerer: PC didn't exist then and tv was all the better for it :D
<TheOpenSourcerer> Dunno about that really. "Till Death Us do part", "On the Buses", "Benny Hill"...
<TheOpenSourcerer> There were some really bad shows.
<kecskebak> And some really good ones - Spike Milligan's Q was as un-PC as you can get, but it was utterly brilliant.
<popey> hehe, wondered when kecskebak would wake up, as the certified fanboy of "old telly" :D
<kecskebak> popey - Sadly, I'm most interested in the bits before, after and between the programmes!
<popey> true..
<kecskebak> I think there was a lot of bad television in the 60s and 70s simply due to the amount produced and the amount of experimentation done. Sadly, if you get a good show now it's done to death, until eventually it's remembered as a bad show.
<MooDoo> The Prisoner was a good tv show
<kecskebak> However there was a lot of good television in the 60s and 70s - the collapse of cinema attendances then is a testament to that.
<popey> The battle between TV and cinema is interesting to follow.
<popey> Especially how it led to things like widescreen, HD, 3D, 4K etc
<kecskebak> Yes, and even Granada - a cinema company wanted Manchester as all their cinemas were in the south
<kecskebak> So they wouldn't compete with themselves. ABC, the company that became Thames and started did the Avengers was a cinema company part owned by Warner Brothers.
<kecskebak> Thames studios in Teddington where they made Rainbow was the old Warner Brothers UK studios.
<kecskebak> And of course Southern TV with Jack Hargreaves musty shed was a third owned by the Rank Organisation - there was always a large cinema interest in British television.
<bigcalm> Cor
<popey> Never knew that!
 * popey fondly remembers the ABC and Odeon Cinemas in Aldershot. All of them gone now
<popey> http://www.flickr.com/photos/oldcinemaphotos/2298427340/in/set-72157603887899628
<popey> used to queue round the block there
 * brobostigon puts bbc2 on, for a good laugh at george osborne.
 * bigcalm grumbles at working - want to play with node.js
 * popey succeeds at lunch
<MooDoo> bigcalm: fancy being at work and working :s
<popey> wrap, spready with mayo and mint sauce, slice of cheese, left over lamb from yesterday's lunch, wrap up, stick in microwave for 1 min
<popey> nom
<bigcalm> MooDoo: right now I am documenting a process, it's dull
<MooDoo> bigcalm: make it fun, see if you can implement film quotes into it, There can be only one process involved,
<bigcalm> Heh
<MooDoo> bigcalm: i couldn't think how you'd use yippe kyay muther **** in it
<bigcalm> It's for a technical document. I wonder if my client would mind that
 * brobostigon walks up to the tv, and metaphoriclly sticks his thumb up george osborne's nose
<bigcalm> Unhappy times?
<MooDoo> brobostigon: just beacuase he's making people who have been on the dole for 2 years work for their money?
<brobostigon> MooDoo: no, i just dont like him.
<MooDoo> oh lol go for it then lol
<brobostigon> yay.
<jussi> hrm
<jussi> what is that hting called that you plug into one HDMI port and it gives you 5, that you can switch between? like a power board but for HDMI.. ?
<popey> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Duronic-HRS1031-Port-Switch-Remote/dp/B00204IE20/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_nC?ie=UTF8&colid=29FWHGD2GAECA&coliid=I1OIQHHHJJBWJM
<popey> one of them?
<popey> switch box
<jussi> yeah, one of them. now to find it on dx.com :P
<MartijnVdS> I call it my receiver 8-)
<popey> they have lots
<MartijnVdS> it switches the right HDMI input to HDMI-out based on its preset
<jussi> (I dont think amazon electronics is available in .fi)
<jussi> yep, loooks like aboput 15$ will get me something decent, now just o choose which one
<popey> jussi: lemme know which one you get, I plucked that link from my amazon wishlist
<popey> I want one but dunno which to get
<jussi> popey: yeah, I will do.
<jussi> there are just so many choices...
<davmor2> TheOpenSourcerer: Sorry for being late to the tv argument had to run an errand.  This was also the era that brought us, Thunderbirds, the muppets, stingray, Starwars, Startrek, Man from Uncle, Bond, Joe 90, Morcome and wise, The two ronnies, Monty Python, blazing saddles etc etc etc  Most of which were PC
<MooDoo> fireball xl5
<davmor2> were not pc even
<kecskebak> I think my favourite programme from the 60s/70s was "Vision On" - probably the most creative use of television imaginable
<kecskebak> I look at the programme now in utter amazement.
<jussi> popey: this one looks decent, although it doesnt come with a power supply according to the comments underneath (not mandatory, but some devices need it) http://dx.com/p/rm501-6-port-1080p-hdmi-v1-3-switch-w-remote-control-black-silver-5-in-1-out-148298
<davmor2> TheOpenSourcerer: not to mention the Carry on Films, Les Dawson, The Good life, To the manner born, Upstairs Down stairs, The power game, Tinker Taylor Soldier Spy (the original and better version)  :)
<MooDoo> The adventure game, although I think that was the 80's
<davmor2> Not like that, Jus' like that was also coined in that era :)
<kecskebak> Patrick Dowling, the creator of The Adventure Game wrote a tie-in game for the BBC Micro - released by Acornsoft. http://youtu.be/sCcO_yFJZxw
<davmor2> kecskebak: you have too much time on your hands obviously :)  but all interest stuff :)
<kecskebak> I think I better leave and let Ubuntu-UK have their IRC channel back :)
<popey> hah
<MooDoo> doogy rev kecskebak  ;)
<kecskebak> davmor2: I actually don't watch any television at all these days, but I used to work for ITV so my excuse is it's my living.
<kecskebak> davmor2: There will be some stuff I did in Synfig and Blender on BBC Northern Ireland very soon.
<popey> Oh nice!
<jussi> popey: that link is the one I ordered. Ill let you know how it looks...
<popey> great!
<bigcalm> Look what I'm going to try tonight ;) https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/7823054848/h93730ACB/
<davmor2> kecskebak: nice :)
<davmor2> bigcalm: be sure to film you getting off the chair :)
<bigcalm> davmor2: who said it would be filmed, I'm not that stupid :P
<davmor2> bigcalm: It wouldn't take much to bribe Mrs bigcalm to be to film it :D
<bigcalm> davmor2: hey, no jumping the gun. There's just over 3 weeks to go now
<davmor2> bigcalm: I forgot the coma after to be
<bigcalm> Ah, makes more sense
<bigcalm> 3 weeks, 5 days
 * bigcalm tries to put it out of his mind and concentrate on work
<davmor2> and 4 hours
<bigcalm> Nope, 2.5 hours I think
<bigcalm> 3.30pm
<davmor2> bigcalm: if you're not counting it in hours it's not close enough yet
<Laney> AlanBell: do you have any way to fix ubot2` being dead?
<ali1234> doesn't jpds run that?
<bigcalm> Any Nationwide users in here?
<Guest90177> bank?
<Guest90177> yes
 * mungbean 
<bigcalm> I've used their Flexi current account for many years. Just used their counter service and was suggested I might upgrade my current account. Wondered if anybody had any thoughts on the new ones
<mungbean> i think their website is awful
<bigcalm> Pondering the Â£10 a month for mobile insurance and car breakdown cover
<mungbean> i didn't consider the paid account work the moneys
<bigcalm> Yeah, I love their online banking, use it all the time
<bigcalm> Â£120 for a year or mobile insurance and breakdown cover
<bigcalm> Hummm
<mungbean> you don't find it overly complex and unwiedly?
<bigcalm> s/or/for/
<bigcalm> Nope
<bigcalm> The online banking is great for my use
<mungbean> breakdown cover i get with tesco clubcard for around Â£40
<mungbean> i have 3 accounts and wifey has abuot 3
<mungbean> to get from my savings to wifes savings is a fail
<davmor2> bigcalm: you are kidding me right?  That's dead cheap
<davmor2> NOT
<bigcalm> davmor2: I have no idea about these things
 * bigcalm sticks with his free account
<davmor2> bigcalm: it's somewhere between 20-40 over the top at a quick guess.  Most phone insurance is like 30-50 (depends on the phone more than anything else) most recovery packages start from 30 so just depends which one it is.
<bigcalm> davmor2: fair enough
 * bigcalm stays put
<davmor2> bigcalm: oh that's interesting though, have a look into if it covers you and Haileys phones and cars.  Apparently one of the nice things is if you transfer a Joint account to the premium account it covers both phones and both cars at which point it becomes worth it apparently. http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/insurance/cheap-mobile-phone-insurance
<bigcalm> I see
<bigcalm> If it does, then I think Hayley should cancel her paid for account with Barkleyâs
<Laney> arf arf
<bigcalm> ?
<Laney> oh you know, just barking
<bigcalm> Lolz
<diddledan> I'm thinking of ipwning myself with a 5S - someone talk me out of it
 * popey prefers the 4s to the 5s
<shauno> do eet
<diddledan> shauno: did you turn into arnie?
<shauno> not that I know of
<diddledan> popey: you're a fan of the smaller screen?
<popey> yes, and the glass back
<diddledan> problem with the glass back is it slides
<popey> nah
<popey> the nexus 4 does, the iphone 4s doesn't IME
<Azelphur> I actually hate glass, it's one of the things I don't like about my nexus 4
<Azelphur> whoever thought it'd be smart to design a slippery phone, I want to slap them.
<popey> well indeed
<popey> the nexus 4 is a terrible example
<Azelphur> diddledan: also I don't need to talk you out of it, the specs and price should do that all by itself ;)
<popey> those are only two factors in the purchase
<Azelphur> hehe
<Azelphur> popey: they are when someones trying to foist a shitty dual core off as Â£700 worth of hardware, pull the other one ;)
<Azelphur> apple is usually bad, but that's just like...beyond anything
 * popey shrugs
<popey> I don't care â»
<Azelphur> the galaxy S4 is Â£300? cheaper and has a better screen, twice the RAM, microSD, a better camera (both front and back) and a CPU that's around 8x as fast lol
<popey> the s4 benchmarks slower than the 5s
<Azelphur> really?
<popey> http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2424668,00.asp
 * popey shrugs
 * popey hasn't tested either
<Myrtti> oooooooo I just realised I can buy ... erm
<Myrtti> I suppose I should ask for somekind of a cover for the corruption Nexus4
<Myrtti> so I don't smack it into pieces in my handbag
<popey> I have two nexus 4 covers, a cheap plastic crap one
<popey> and a fairly okay one
<popey> both are horrible of course because they mean you can't hold the actual phone itself.
<Myrtti> sorry, I can't parse that
<popey> its like buying a car then driving round with it wrapped in bubble wrap
<popey> hm.
<popey> both covers are terrible, because when you put a cover on a phone, you can't hold the actual phone itself
<diddledan> see, I always come back to the same dilemma - stay with apple and be able to use photoshop et. al. on a POSIX-based system which behaves just as I expect (CLI) or do I eschew proprietary and go with ubuntu - if I stay with apple on the desktop/laptop I might as well stay with apple on the mobile, too. If I go with ubuntu I lose out on photoshop and adobe edge stuffs, and might as well go with android for the mobile (because ubuntu touch is
<diddledan>  still a baby - bless).
<popey> (holding the phone itself is a nice thing imo) (depending on the phone)
<Myrtti> popey: mm. I've learnt to live with it because I've been too cheap to buy stickers for my GNexus
<Azelphur> popey: I notice geekbench doesn't seem to have the i5hone 5s listed, strange
<popey> Myrtti: RingKe Fusion is the cover I have on the n4
<popey> feels robust
<Myrtti> popey: yeah, I'd have to find it from a Finnish shop :-(
<Myrtti> or pay it from my own pocket
<popey> happy to get one and forward it to you if that's any use
<popey> but I guess d can do that too â»
<Myrtti> yeah, that's not a problem. It's just going to be my work phone so I'd rather let them pay for it
<popey> ah
<Myrtti> although after paying 400â¬ for the 8GB one I suppose it's not such a horrible thing if I chip in some of my pocket money
<Myrtti> instead of letting them pay more
<ali1234> why did they make the back of the phone glass?
<diddledan> apple
<ali1234> i mean why use glass except for the purposes of making transparent objects?
<diddledan> apple
<ali1234> what is the benefit??
<diddledan> it looks like an iphone
<ali1234> can you say "glass cannon"?
<diddledan> banana hammock?
<ali1234> bumblebee tuna?
<popey> it feels nice
<popey> feels "premium" I believe
<ali1234> you know what feels nice? metal
<popey> indeed
<popey> which is why I like the 4s
<diddledan> yeah it's all smooth like a baby's fingernail (politically correct censored version)
<popey> metal & glass > plastic
<Azelphur> popey: agree on that one, glass sucks :P
<Myrtti> this looks quite well suited for my use so I might just get that. http://www.amazon.co.uk/GMYLE-Yellow-Leather-Wallet-Magnetic/dp/B00E0FV2G2/
<lpapp> hey, do you know if gumtree has an API?
<bigcalm> Sounds like the sort of site that would/should
<lpapp> I could not find it.
<zleap> lpapp, http://docs.codehaus.org/display/GUMTREE/GumTree+API+Summary
<zleap> is that helpful
<bigcalm> http://blog.gumtree.com/what-bloggers-think-of-the-sneak-peek-site/
<bigcalm> Oh, better link than I found
<zleap> np
<ali1234> not really
<ali1234> it's nothing to do with gumtree.com
<zleap> ok sorry
<ali1234> "GumTree is a modern software suite that aims to lower the barrier of performing experiments on complex scientific instruments."
<lpapp> zleap: I do not see an API spec there for gumtree.
<MartijnVdS> "Science is hard, let's go shopping"?
<zleap> i just tried to google gumtree api
<lpapp> so did I, yeah. :>
<zleap> i guess there is more than one gum tree, like there is more than 1 unity
<lpapp> it is kinda weird because it seems common in the UK.
<lpapp> not as common as ebay.co.uk, but still.
<ali1234> gumtree has free ads, that's why it is popular
<ali1234> and also why it is full of rubbish and scams
<lpapp> I am surprised it has no API easily accessible.
<AlanBell> Laney: no, I don't that is a jpds bot
<diddledan> does ubuntu touch do similar power savings techniques as android in that non-foreground apps are suspended and when ram gets low completely killed but with state information saved to resume them where they left-off?
<diddledan> if so, will that eventually make it's way to ubuntu desktop for use on laptops?
<diddledan> like os x has the feature they call "app nap" which does similar to the ios power saving equivalent to the android procedure I just highlighted
<diddledan> os x mavericks**
<ali1234> not as far as i know
<ali1234> touch does the exact same process scheduling as desktop
<ali1234> possibly less actually
<popey> diddledan: yes, apps are suspended when not focussed
<bigcalm> How does that affect multitasking?
<bigcalm> #
<bigcalm> Meh
<diddledan> popey: that's what I thought
<popey> bigcalm: multiple apps can run
<popey> then resume when you switch to them
<popey> there are system services for some things that need to continue - like downloading files, or playing music
<bigcalm> I was about to ask about music
<bigcalm> Okay
<popey> we have some special exceptions for some apps
<diddledan> how usable is touch on the galaxy nexus now we're so close to 13.10 release date? I'm considering moving over but I do use the phone so it's not a testbed so to speak.
<bigcalm> Can an app say "hey, I should be kept running no matter what"?
<popey> no
<bigcalm> Right
<popey> well, maybe â»
<bigcalm> Heh
<diddledan> lol
<bigcalm> diddledan: you should use it every day and file bug reports :D
<diddledan> bigcalm: :-D
 * bigcalm gives up with work dev problems for the evening
<bigcalm> Time for some fun with node.js
<diddledan> I'm assuming tilapia (nexus 7-2012+gsm) still has issues judging from the last time I looked on the touch mailing list
<diddledan> we really need to get people like sky and netflix on board with video streaming capability
<diddledan> that'ld be the main thing I'd miss
<popey> yeah, me too
<daubers> Evening
<bigcalm> Forgotten the password to my wedding web site
<bigcalm> Gah
<brobostigon> oh dear :(
<bigcalm> Ah, there we go
<bigcalm> And there is the email saying that somebody is trying to force their way in
<diddledan> this is really cool: http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2013/09/install-kde-connect-on-ubuntu-get-call-notifications
<bigcalm> Just added a count down timer :D
<popey> hmm, my xbox says youtube is not available right now, which is a lie
<bigcalm> popey: bought GTA V eh? ;)
<popey> nope
<bigcalm> Aww
<popey> omg
<popey> just discovered you can pair your laptop with the youtube app on xbox 360
#ubuntu-uk 2013-10-01
<Myrtti> good morning
<MartijnVdS> \o
<Myrtti> someone might remember my fixation with Yorkshire tea... I'm running low and decided to look up my options. Taking into account that I've lost my bus card, it would cost me 5â¬ on busfares to get into town to get some from the big department store I know sells it...
<Myrtti> I thought I might look into buying some from a shop that sells British stuff.
<Myrtti> first I thought "ok" maybe 11â¬ isn't that bad for a packet of tea that would cost 2.50GBP in Tesco
<Myrtti> ... but they also charge for mailing it, making the grand total for the tea 19.50â¬.
<Myrtti> so I guess taking the bus to get some tea isn't such a bad idea after all.
<Myrtti> also, happy mailman day
<diddledan> Myrtti: mailman as in the software mailing list manager or mailman as in the bloke that delivers my shiny toys?
<Myrtti> diddledan: the software mailing list manager that celebrates its day every first day of the month
<diddledan> yeah, I've since spotted the mails:-p
<Myrtti> because holy list membership reminders, Batman!
<diddledan> they're starting to trickle in
<MooDoo> morning all
<diddledan> allo
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<diddledan> ,prmom
<diddledan> erm
<diddledan> mornin
<diddledan> fingers were offset to the right by one key
<bigcalm> Ah, an off by one error
<diddledan> :-)
<diddledan> only one of the two actors was affected by off-by-one however meaning the R came out correctly
<diddledan> lol - the sultry seductress installer ends with "reticulating splines"
<diddledan> is that the right codename? or should it be spicy salami?
<diddledan> or...
<bigcalm> What the heck are you talking about? :)
<diddledan> the beta of ubuntu 13.10
<bigcalm> Ah. Your codename for it didn't make much sense to me, does now
<bigcalm> Today, I shall be mostly eating co-codamol</fastshow>
<diddledan> mmm, tasty
<bigcalm> Woo, new Museum of Curiosity waiting for me to listen to
<bigcalm> Does anybody ever have a pet project that they really want to work on but normal work just gets in the way during work hours? I should take time off...
<popey> heh
<popey> yes!
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<bigcalm> Morning
<brobostigon> morning bigcalm
<diddledan> bigcalm: pet projects - I would like to redesign / rebuild my own website and get some more recent content on it  but I just don't seem to be able to get time off from paying work to do it
<MooDoo> diddledan: use wordpress half the work is then done for you ;)
<brobostigon> wordpress is pretty slick.
<brobostigon> and unlike drupal, wordpress can upgrade itself.
<diplo> morning all, I have a IcyBox external hdd caddy and have a few hdd's I'd like to test for errors etc. Best way to go about that? Can hdparm do anything like that? A bit like a memtest test I guess I'm after
<diddledan> you'd want it to be able to support SMART if it can as that's the most appropriate way to initiate tests
<diddledan> otherwise I donno
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Vegetarian Day! :-D
<diddledan> bah
<bigcalm> JamesTait: is today the day that we eat a vegetarian?
<jussi> bigcalm: cannibal day again? :D
<JamesTait> bigcalm, I think that might be the opposite of what was intended, but whatever works, I guess. ;)
<bigcalm> jussi: eat a rabbit, they are veggies ;)
<gordonjcp> I guess pigs are about the only omnivorous thing we eat
<gordonjcp> maybe the Abrahamic faiths have a point, there
<jussi> gordonjcp: don't you try take my bacon away!! (and also, what about cows?)
<jussi> (cows chew the cud, isnt that eating meat? :P :P )
<brobostigon> bacon rocks
<popey> Rocks made from bacon!? Where!?
<brobostigon> haha
 * TheOpenSourcerer files a trademark for Bacon Rocks
 * popey had quickie scrambled eggs and mushrooms for brekkie
<TheOpenSourcerer> Then ponders if they should be chewy or hard
 * TheOpenSourcerer had no breakfast - never does normally.
<MooDoo> TheOpenSourcerer: crispy bacon
<TheOpenSourcerer> Am now waiting impatiently for the sandwich to van to announce its presence.
 * brobostigon is having lunch with his gf, :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Chocmosas (NOM NOM) http://www.greenandblacks.co.uk/recipes/Chocomosas?r=45265
<Myrtti> hmmm.
<Myrtti> Google Music and Google Music All Access opened today in Finland. I have to consider would canceling my Spotify subscription and moving to GMAA be a good idea. But I've been doing wedding playlist on Spotify and was planning to make it collaborative at some point...
<MooDoo> bacon + star wars = https://static.squarespace.com/static/51b3dc8ee4b051b96ceb10de/51ce6099e4b0d911b4489b79/51ce6196e4b0d911b44993bc/1271115234477/1000w/Star_Wars_Bacon_AT-AT-3-thumb-548x606-37072.jpg
<Myrtti> this leaves me wondering
<bigcalm> Myrtti: keep spotify until you're wed?
<Myrtti> bigcalm: why pay for two subscriptions...
<Myrtti> besides I just remembered my google account thinks I'm british already
<bigcalm> Myrtti: spend time moving the play lists over - do you have colab playlists on google music?
<Myrtti> so the lower subscription rate for people signing up on the first month is already gone for me
<Myrtti> bigcalm: nope, not that I know of
<bigcalm> Then isn't that a reason to keep spotify?
<Myrtti> yeah I suppose, but it would've been 2â¬ cheaper
<brobostigon> cheapo wetherspoons lunch, but it will do the job.
<Myrtti> but since the deal is gone, it's the same price, so that's moot anyway
<popey> TheOpenSourcerer: yeah, I tend to now otherwise working at home I'll just sneak into the kitchen and eat
<bigcalm> I <3 spotify for mobile usage mostly - I have my account running on my android tv stick and so get tunes in the sitting room hi-fi
<popey> \o/
<Myrtti> oh yes. I forgot the bonus, of using Spotify on the AV Receiver and whatnots
<popey> i have shared my spotify login with wifey and sophie
<popey> they have their own playlists on my account
<popey> we pretty much never use it at the same time
<Myrtti> yeah, I'm sharing mine with my sister on her TV STB
<davmor2> Morning all
<popey> just
<JamesTait> davmor2, "It was when we got up." ;)
<bigcalm> Heh
 * JamesTait used to hear that a lot.
<bigcalm> Morning davmor2
<bigcalm> davmor2: not going to the LUG tomorrow night?
<davmor2> I've been up for hours I've only just managed to get rid of my Mom who paid a surprise visit
<JamesTait> Aw, bless!
<davmor2> bigcalm: no idea currently way too much on, but I can only do so much in a day so we'll see, hence not putting my name down yet
<bigcalm> davmor2: fair enough
<davmor2> JamesTait: You don't know her or you wouldn't say that :D
<JamesTait> davmor2, I did wonder about the "get rid of her" bit. ;)
<bigcalm> davmor2: have you considered loud and continuous farting?
<gordonjcp> jussi: no, it's semidigested grass ;-)
<davmor2> bigcalm: She'd thing that was a challenge :)
<JamesTait> Hah! :-D
<jussi> gordonjcp: aah crud, I thought it was cow cheek :P
<gordonjcp> jussi: no, they have four stomachs where they let chewed up grass break down a bit before eating it some more
<jussi> hehe
<gordonjcp> jussi: sheep and goats are ruminants too
<gordonjcp> we're not which is why we can't eat grass
<gordonjcp> well, we can, we just can't get any nutrition from it
<jussi> I knew it!!! all those vegetarians telling me to eat salad!!!
<bigcalm> Indeed, having a shrivelled up appendix means that we get bugger all from lettuce
<gordonjcp> hrmph
<gordonjcp> I wish Google would stop trying to get me to work for them
<bigcalm> </humble_brag>
<gordonjcp> about once a month I get mailed by their recruiters
<mungbean> why don't you email back
<gordonjcp> I did
<mungbean> say "please contact me in 1 yr"
<MooDoo> gordonjcp: go work for them, they can't be that bad to work for, you might get more money
<gordonjcp> I emailed back with varying degrees of politeness saying please contact me when you've got something suitable
<brobostigon> i would accept, it is probably well payed enough.
<gordonjcp> MooDoo: they only have jobs in London
<MooDoo> gordonjcp: ah
<gordonjcp> it's at the wrong end of a different country
<Myrtti> I've been emailed a few times and once I even tried
<gordonjcp> and their recruitment guy that emails me cannot seem to grasp that I just don't want to move to London
<Myrtti> it always ends in tears anyway
<gordonjcp> "But we'd be paying London rates!"
<gordonjcp> yeah
<gordonjcp> but I'd be in *London*
<mungbean> victoria?
<mungbean> or elsewhere in london
<mungbean> not that i can handle anything more than a 9-5 atm
<Monotoko> afternoon
<mungbean> how do i invite to a chan? /invite ?
<diddledan> mungbean: in the channel you want to invite someone to, run /invite theirNick
<mungbean> cheers diddledan
<bigcalm> Oh my, I think our village hall is on fire
<MooDoo> ouch
<davmor2> bigcalm: ouch
<Myrtti> oof.
<bigcalm> Fire engine has just raced past
<mungbean> 2nd day of cold turkey on reddit
<davmor2> bigcalm: Good sign that something is on fire
<TheOpenSourcerer> Next week is "National Curry Week" :-D
<bigcalm> For the whole week?
<bigcalm> Yay
<bigcalm> Will try and get Hayley to a balti at some point
<popey> \o/
<mungbean> i wonder how the high speed internet on trains will work
<bigcalm> You use the internet while the train moves at high speed
<mungbean> train lines are perfect for laying fibre
<bigcalm> So, not at all
<mungbean> how does the internet get into the train
<bigcalm> Does it have a ticket?
<mungbean> multiple wifi APs along the route every 100 yds ?
<davmor2> mungbean: it's a mobile connection on the train, I'm assuming they'll just upgrade it from 3g to 4g
<mungbean> they are talking 50mb
<mungbean> http://metro.co.uk/2013/09/30/web-connections-that-go-like-a-train-broadband-on-railways-to-eclipse-domestic-speeds-4129211/
<davmor2> http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/2297785/uk-government-to-deliver-50mbps-4g-broadband-to-rail-passengers
<mungbean> i have a train line that runs along the back of my garden
<mungbean> wonder if i can profit from that
<mungbean> http://metro.co.uk/2013/09/30/50-year-old-father-of-three-ordered-to-show-id-to-buy-whisky-4128887/
<mungbean> he looks like a student
<davmor2> mungbean: but he's black.  What I found happens with Black people in general is, as kids they always look older till they look like they are in their early 20's, eventually they then go grey and wrinkly but the eventually kicks in around 70 :)
<popey> meh
<popey> I got ID'd in the USA recently
<popey> Despite me being older than everyone there, including the guy asking for ID
<mungbean> thats teh rules in USA though innit?
<davmor2> popey: they were just checking if you were elvis
<mungbean> they just ask out of habit, no one gets offended
<popey> It's not about being offended
<popey> I had no id with me
<popey> so couldn't go in
<mungbean> lol
<directhex> when i worked at waitrose, as a 16 year old, i was required to ID everyone, regardless of age or zimmer frame
<Azelphur> I've only ever been ID'd once in my entire life xD
 * Myrtti looks at the picture
<Myrtti> mmm 17
<Azelphur> and amusingly...this was trying to buy cutlery at Argos
<Azelphur> I don't always stab people, but when I do I use value range forks.
<mungbean> weapons in argos you mean
<Azelphur> luckily I had a friend with me who had a passport
<Azelphur> I guess at <21 you're supposed to eat like a monkey :P
<ali1234> i've got an idea
 * davmor2 has never been ID'd
<ali1234> let's make everyone give ID when buying anything at all
<mungbean> don't tell the govt
<mungbean> they probably will
<Azelphur> lol
<mungbean> maplins, machine mart, dixons etc are keen to ask for a home address when buying stuff
<davmor2> mungbean: they already do what do you think the chip in the debit and credit cards is all about ;)
<mungbean> and i am keen to decline
<popey> thats for spam
<mungbean> naively i complied once because my wife was in teh shop and i wanted to be polite
<mungbean> i said whats this for? "warranty sir"
<mungbean> oh ok.
<mungbean> got spammed relentlessly since
<mungbean> fool
<ali1234> they have to take your address if you buy a TV
<mungbean> so they say
<bigcalm> To check the address has a licence
<mungbean> as george bush said..fool me once...
<mungbean> bigcalm: but i'm buying as a gift for a friend
<bigcalm> They don't know that
<bigcalm> And if you said it, you could be lying
<mungbean> and also, my sisters house in harlow wasn't on their system
<mungbean> so?
<mungbean> what if i don't have a licence, and am buying for a friend.
<bigcalm> So they still have to ask
<mungbean> it's not controlled goods
 * bigcalm does a cheeky bit of JavaScript while on lunch
<popey> \o/
<diddledan> sneaky javascript? that sounds naughty
<popey> https://www.fsf.org/news/fsf-seeks-full-time-senior-gnu-linux-sysadmin
<popey> "(S)he will be familiar with the free software community and how it works, and will be more interested in making a substantial contribution to software freedom and having employment consistent with ethical ideals than obtaining the highest salary"
<popey> i.e. "We pay crap money"
<mungbean> how crap
<mungbean>  The salary is fixed at $60,819.20 and is non-negotiable
<mungbean> not bad
<mungbean> equivalent to a uni sysadmin role
<diddledan> mungbean: the law states that televisions and other receiving devices cannot be sold unless the purchaser has filled and signed a license document
<diddledan> hence, your address
<Myrtti> I refrain from commenting what the negatives of the job are
<popey> haha
<diddledan> that the gnu/fsf job posting?
<Myrtti> yeah.
<diddledan> I wouldn't qualify - I use proprietary stuff :-0p
<Myrtti> I wouldn't qualify, I use word Linux in my language
<Myrtti> "eeep, game over"
<diddledan> yeah, and I don't call it gnu/linux either
<popey> que
<diddledan> lol @ maplin email I just received - they have a "Pro Hunter - Miniature RF Bug Sweeper"
<popey> are schools on strike today?
<diddledan> popey: not that I'm aware
<ali1234> yes they are
<ali1234> some of them
<mungbean> some
<ali1234> i heard it on the local radio last night
<diddledan> but then I'm never aware of the schools anymore
<mungbean> why are 2 eastenders stories in teh top 10 on the bbc :(
<diddledan> because they're trying new marketing avenues
<mungbean> i think you are right
<mungbean> i forgot it existed
<mungbean> now they are reminding me
<diddledan> aparently someone is going to get domestically violent soon ... joy
<mungbean> now i feel depressed
<popey> phew, local school isnt
<MooDoo> popey: our schools teachers are on strike
<popey> bummer
<MooDoo> yeah
<popey> the benefit of independent schools \o/
<MooDoo> obviously x weeks in the summer and christmas isn't good enough for them, they need inset and strike days as well
<mungbean> inset is worse than teaching i'm sure
<mungbean> especially the bit where they dress up as six legged creatures
<diddledan> my sister is on maternity leave so she isn't caught up in whether to strike or not
<MooDoo> I'm sure, but when they have 6 weeks school hol, then announce the first day back is inset, it annoys me
<mungbean> less disruptive innit
<popey> makes sense
<popey> first day back, get everyone up to speed
<MooDoo> do it in the bloomin hols so it doesn't disrupt parents
<popey> they have, effectively
<popey> on the last day
<MooDoo> yeah I get what you're saying
<MooDoo> still annoys me
 * mungbean thinks you are just in grumpy mood :D
<popey> it's just as bad for people who work in schools
<popey> they have to find childcare for their kids while they go into school for inset days
<mungbean> still wiped out after being ill all last week
<mungbean> need a nap somewhere
<mungbean> straw poll, if you were deploying a virtualisation solution now, what would you go for?
<MooDoo> mungbean: vmware
<popey> depends
<mungbean> mostly linux server VMs
<mungbean> possible scope for openstack/cloudstack type dep[loyments too
<diddledan> opensource: if you're happy running a roll-your-own then libvirt+kvm+virsh/virt-manager; if you want a packaged solution xcp. proprietary: there's not a lot to choose between citrix and vmware here
<mungbean> i've got strong background in vmware
<diddledan> I would say go with what you know then
<mungbean> however, OSS product might be way to go
<mungbean> its a team thing
<diddledan> aah
<diddledan> that changes things a bit
<diddledan> you need the other members to be happy with the choice - politics :-p
<mungbean> everyone is sensible and OSS users
<mungbean> hopefully not much politics
<diddledan> the advantage that the libvirt-based solution has is that it is end-to-end manageable through an oss workstation - both vmware and citrix (and even oss xcp from the xen guys) require closed-source management utils that only work on windows workstations
<mungbean> thats true too
<mungbean> vmware is still Â£Â£ too
<diddledan> yeah
<diddledan> vmware gets very expensive very quickly
<MooDoo> esxi is fine use that ;) lol
<mungbean> nah
<directhex> ganeti.
<diddledan> what about playing with the completely unknown proxmox?
<mungbean> openstack is too immature
<mungbean> unknown stuff is a nope
<diddledan> http://pve.proxmox.com/wiki/Main_Page
<Myrtti> I'm having a slow day but didn't there use to be ready made Debian and/or Ubuntu KVM/Qemu disk images at one point somewhere in the tinternet?
<Myrtti> hm, I think this might work
<diddledan> Myrtti: guest or host?
<Myrtti> guest
<diddledan> there was once upon a time the jeos ubuntu release
<Myrtti> I'm reading this one http://agiliq.com/blog/2012/07/using-ubuntu-cloud-images-in-kvm/
<diddledan> or just enough operating system
<diddledan> afaik it never made it past 10.04 though
<mungbean> anyone used cloudstack?
 * popey wanders off to his codeclub
<ali1234> anyone else noticed that the forward mouse button doesn't work any more?
<bigcalm> Forward mouse button?
<bigcalm> Oh, in a browser
<bigcalm> Works for me in 13.04 with everything up to date
<ali1234> yeah or file manager
<ali1234> and yeah i'm on 13.10
<ali1234> with evtest it sends no events at all
<ali1234> back still works fine, sends button 4
<bigcalm> Got another mouse that you can test with?
<ali1234> no
<ali1234> i could test the mouse on another computer though
<diddledan> that won't rule out the mouse being the problem
<ali1234> yes it would?
<diddledan> if it doesn't work in t'other pc how do you determine it's the fault of the mouse over the fault of the software or vice versa?
<diddledan> all you'd know is the mouse don't work in two places
<ali1234> well if i tried another mouse and it didn't work then it could be two broken mice
<diddledan> that's less likely
<ali1234> the thing is that these scenarios are highly unlikely
<diddledan> ideally you'd test two mice in two pcs
<diddledan> if all four scenarios don't work then it's likely to be software
<ali1234> it's the mouse :/
<ali1234> if i press the button rrreeeeeeally hard it works
<diddledan> that's a very male thing to do - if it doesn't work push it harder
<ali1234> ok now i need to get a new microswitch
<diddledan> many is the time that a husband gets looked at by his missus for standing two inches from the telly pushing the remote button as hard as he can
<mgdm> I find it's usually the other way around
<ali1234> nah when the remote doesn't work you have to take the batteries out and switch them over
<diddledan> well either way is funny :-p
<ali1234> after blowing on them
<diddledan> o_O
<bigcalm> That reminds me that I need to buy a new fibreglass pen, thanks :)
<mungbean> shhh
<davmor2> bigcalm: fibreglass pen wouldn't that be a bit rough on the skin
<ali1234> davmor2: that's the idea, yes
<ali1234> it's a propelling pencil with a fibreglass tip for cleaning PCB pads and so on
<ali1234> what was the name of that game where you control 9 characters at the same time?
<ali1234> it was something like 9rogue
<bigcalm> davmor2_: a fibreglass pen is useful to clean the battery contacts in a remote control when said batteries have leaked and corroded
<bigcalm> Quiet night
<ali1234> i found it. it was ro9
<angryziber> #darktable
<diddledan> lightchair
<diddledan> dimstool
<Darael> invisibledesk
<diddledan> brightbookcase
<Darael> brilliantsofa
<Darael> shadylamp
<diddledan> lol
<Darael> luminescentbed
<Darael> ...I'm running out of furniture in here to concatenate with lighting-descriptors, I confess.
<diddledan> me too
<Azelphur> never set up a mail server before, does anyone have any particular recommendations?
<Azelphur> My VPS seems to have shipped with exim4 installed, will that do the job well?
<bigcalm> That'll send SMTP
#ubuntu-uk 2013-10-02
<ukcouple> Hi
<Wobbo> After a while, 4/5 month, 13.04 is getting slow, very slow. Starting up en logging in is no problem. But then, stuff like Nautilus, Chrome and the systemsetting CMS i s sloff. I have a Intel i5 Core, 8gig ram, Ubuntu 13.04 64b....
<Wobbo> Any tips?
<MooDoo> morning all
<AlanBell> morning
<MooDoo> Morning Alan
<popey> Yes
<popey> That
<MooDoo> Morning Alans :)
<AlanBell> ah bother, I can't make the release party :(
<AlanBell> http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-uk/2555-saucy-salamander-release-party/
<MooDoo> me neither :(
<MooDoo> ooooo i want a ubuntu member cert, only problem is I'm not an ubuntu member, they look purty though :)
<AlanBell> they are :)
<MooDoo> :p
<MooDoo> might have to look at becoming one then :) lol
<AlanBell> document your awesome contributions to Ubuntu and you too can have one
<MooDoo> alas me being awesome in here is the only contribution I currently make :)
<AlanBell> woah, no xmir
<MooDoo> yup, not ready
<diddledan> no xmir?
<AlanBell> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2013-October/037695.html
<MooDoo> Don't blame them to be honest, if it's not ready it's not ready...
<AlanBell> that is a bit of a last minute trip
<diddledan> dang
<MooDoo> Don't think it's going to make a difference if it's not in this version is it?
<AlanBell> well it will be in, but not turned on by default
<diddledan> the problem is it means that 14.04 won't have such extensive background testing of the xmir stack from all the users of 13.10
<AlanBell> in theory 14.04 should be using unity 8 and native Mir stuff
<diddledan> aah
<AlanBell> rather than the strange xmir thing
<AlanBell> well actually some xmir stuff might be kicking about in 14.04 as well for some applications in a way I don't really understand
<AlanBell> the xmir fullscreen stuff always seemed pointless to me, however on the plus side, this means that 13.10 will be pretty solid, it is what I am using now
<popey> Or LTS could be bumped to 14.10
<AlanBell> surprised it wasn't mentioned in the technical board meeting yesterday
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Farm Animals Day! :-D
<popey> moo
<diddledan> oink
<DJones> Baa
<MooDoo> nayyyyyyyyy
 * DJones puts a saddle on MooDoo 
<MooDoo> DJones: ride em cowboy.......errr
<diddledan> DJones, MooDoo: that makes my perverted mind go to bad places
<DJones> Now theres an idea, I've got the right boots, coat & hat, now, where did I put the whip
<DJones> Ooh Er Mother
 * diddledan grins mischeivously
<MooDoo> noooooooooooooooooooo
<JamesTait> I think I'm going to be a duck today.
<diddledan> yey
<MooDoo> JamesTait: snap, a aqua planing duck :)
<JamesTait> MooDoo, that almost sounds like a release codename. ;)
<MooDoo> maybe for next time round.  Code name for A is Aquaplaneing Duck
<shauno> I read that as 'planning' several times, until I finally figured out where I was going wrong
<popey> maybe he's planning a pond
<MooDoo> yeah I can't spell this early in the morning
<MooDoo> actually has T been announced yet, speaking of release names?
<shauno> nah I think you got it right.  I just haven't had enough coffee to deal with scheming ducks just yet
<AlanBell> MooDoo: nope, the last few were announced on release day (which messes up some packages that require the next release name in them)
<MooDoo> excellent planning that
<DJones> MooDoo: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DevelopmentCodeNames Some interesting suggestions listed
<diddledan> MooDoo: I vote for the tenacious tamarin
<MooDoo> http://a-z-animals.com/animals/pictures/T/
<diddledan> ah someone's already used tenacious
<MooDoo> Talkative Toucan
<diddledan> tweakable tit? (a tit is a bird you disgusting-minded perverts!)
<MooDoo> tippytoed tapir
<bashrc> Tipsy Tarantula
<diddledan> I find it entirely dissatisfying how few double entendres ubuntu has used as codenames
<MooDoo> well we all know it's going to be obscure :)
<bigcalm> Touchy Toad
<shauno> toot toot!
<bashrc> Tempestuous Terrapin
<DJones> Maybe they should do a google (eg Android KitKat), pick a food item named after an animal and see if they can get sponsorship from the food producer
<AlanBell> http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/let-s-start-a-techmums-revolution is interesting, Dr Black of saving Bletchly fame is running it
<diddledan> DJones: penguin!
<bigcalm> I think a brand would shout copyright infringement if it were done that way. It's likely that Google sat down with NestlÃ© for a long time before agreeing the name
<AlanBell> bigcalm: apparently it was very quick
<bigcalm> AlanBell: I am surprised
<Laney> http://www.beerfestival.nottinghamcamra.org/Assets_pdf/Beer_2013_List.pdf
<Laney> going to be hard to choose!
<MooDoo> should be good
<MooDoo> not sure if I'm going this year.
<Laney> going to be difficult if you don't have a ticket
<Laney> get down early on the saturday
<MooDoo> Laney: yeah they sold out when I tried to get tickets.
<Laney> yep :(
<Laney> Get the Friday off if you can and go down early
<Laney> that's what we're doing
<MooDoo> might just have to give it a miss and plan an ubuntu hour for next years ;)
<Laney> haha
<MooDoo> Laney: or just bulk buy tickets and have an ubuntu visit to nottingham llke they do darn sarf with the real ale train
<Laney> Could do that, it's worth travelling for IMO
<MooDoo> yup
<MooDoo> might look into that
<MooDoo> I'm really surprised there hasn't been an ubuntu hour hangout on air ;)
<MooDoo> Laney: see what happens we talk about beer and nottingham and it all goes quiet :)
<Laney> sorry I went into an IPA induced trance
<mungbean> better than an API induced one
<bigcalm> We need an IPA API
<Laney> one method: moreIPA();
<mungbean> IPA = fusty guts
<gordonjcp> IPAoIP
<mgdm> IPAoIPoA (over ATM, like DSL is here...)
<JamesTait> An IPAoIPoA API?
<bigcalm> No` gave us beeroverip.org
<mgdm> and other weirder, frencher things
<JamesTait> "And another consonant, please, Rachel."
<bigcalm> Hehe
<davmor2> Morning all
<davmor2> bigcalm: no lug for me :( too much on
<AlanBell> JamesTait: no Carol any more?
<mgdm> hasn't been for years
<JamesTait> AlanBell, not any more. She's too busy adverising, well, pretty much anything.
<AlanBell> gosh, since 2008 I haven't watched countdown
<JamesTait> "I'll have a 'T', please, Bob."
<AlanBell> and yes, Carol does do too many suspect advertising jobs
<bigcalm> Rachel is a good reason to watch Strictly Come Dancing this year
<JamesTait> bigcalm, is she a good dancer then?
<popey> She is perfect
<popey> In every way.
<JamesTait> :D
<mgdm> bigcalm: or, indeed, Countdown... :-)
<bigcalm> JamesTait: don't know, haven't watched it yet. I just find her lovely
<AlanBell> especially the loan adverts, very very sad to see her endorsing high APR loans
<bigcalm> 8 out of 10 does Countdown is spiffing \o/
<JamesTait> bigcalm, +1
<mgdm> (while developing set top box apps the TV coicidentally ends up on C4 around 3pm quite a few times)
<popey> +1
<JamesTait> 10/10! Yay!
<bigcalm> Hehe
<bigcalm> Suzie is lovely as well
<MooDoo> Have you seens here on celebrity countdown?  She's hilarious on that
<JamesTait> bigcalm, +1 there too.
<MooDoo> http://i4.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article420635.ece/ALTERNATES/s615/rachel-riley-countdown-pic-pixel-72748871-420635.jpg - coarrrrrr ;) lol
<mungbean> have you seen rachel's husband? for such a beauty, he's a very average looking man. did i mention he's a millionaire?
<mgdm> now now
<mgdm> :P
<diddledan> I only watch strictly (yes I watch strictly) because of all the pretty eye-candy :-p
<diddledan> and anne widdecombe
<MooDoo> lol
 * davmor2 pictures diddledan watching strictly while listening to this in the background http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PhfbYtbpNxY
<diddledan> lol
<popey> I only watch Strictly because I have a 10 year old daughter and a wife.
<popey> I need to buy a new telly for the other room
<diddledan> popey: ipad
<brobostigon> i know that feeling from somewhere.
<diddledan> and catchuptv app
<brobostigon> soaps included.
<mungbean> my wife doesn't watch downton , eastenders or strictly, or ITV
<mungbean> i'm a lucky man
<MooDoo> thank good ness my daughter is only two, it'll be cancelled by the times she's old enough to appreciate it lol
<popey> diddledan: can't connect an xbox to an ipad
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> fair enough
<bigcalm> One for czajkowski http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hot-Fashion-Cat-Face-Tote-Bag-Handbag-Purse-Japan-Muchacha-Ahcahcum-DMH07-/111159460157?pt=US_CSA_WH_Handbags&hash=item19e19ec13d&nma=true&si=6gkk9qYqnlstv9sHymnZ61WXEyY%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
<czajkowski> bigcalm: no!
<bigcalm> Hehe
<bigcalm> Amusing that it's listed as a cat face bag
 * AlanBell is mildly curious about how bigcalm came to find that page
<mgdm> google for "things to troll czajkowski with"
<bigcalm> AlanBell: linked to from an ex-gf's tumblr blog
<bigcalm> mgdm: ooo, tempting ;)
<AlanBell> speaking of trolling czajkowski, is it mug night tomorrow?
<MooDoo> mgdm: is that trollczajkowski.com ?
<diddledan> someone really thinks that's a cat's face?!
<diddledan> oh they do two versions
<diddledan> lol @ Package Content	  1 *   BAG
<diddledan> well duh
<mungbean> when ping packets have quick response, but only get sent every 5 secs instead of 1, is that a dns issue?
<mungbean> ping -n is quick
<mungbean> pretty sure it means no reverse lookup
<diddledan> mungbean: sounds like dns is timing out
<MooDoo> Numeric output only.  No attempt will be made to lookup symbolic names for host addresses.
<MooDoo> that's what -n is
<mungbean> forward lookup works, reverse doesn't
<MooDoo> I'll shut up
<diddledan> mungbean: dig -x 192.168.0.1 <-- replace with a meaningful ip
<diddledan> try again with +trace appended
<diddledan> that will indicate which dns server is failing
<mungbean> the dns server isn't failing
<mungbean> its cos the PTR record doesn't exist
<diddledan> that should return instantly
<diddledan> it should immediately return NXDOMAIN
<diddledan> if it's timing out then that's another issue entirely
<mungbean> ;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NXDOMAIN, id: 49227
<czajkowski> AlanBell: it is Eliot is speaking
<AlanBell> cool, and free pizza too :)
<BigRedS> I alt-tab and see "free pizza"; what have I missed?
<AlanBell> mongodb user group tomorrow
<AlanBell> near silicon roundabout
<BigRedS> ooh
<MooDoo> pizza?
<BigRedS> pizza
<MooDoo> yum
<mungbean> popey: how many on the linux jobs mailing nowadays please?
<mungbean> approx
<popey> 700
<diddledan> 1 of those is me :-)
<mungbean> thanks. static, or growing you think?
<mungbean> have a cool job coming up
<popey> you going to post it to the list?
<mungbean> when its released
<mungbean> still working on job desc
<popey> just make sure to adhere to the recommendations on the list admin page
<MooDoo> is that this one? - http://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/linuxjobs
<MooDoo> ?
<mungbean> features linux as a component of the role?
<mungbean> yeah they are reasonable rules
<popey> yes
<popey> people complain if salary details aren't there too
<popey> a browse back in the archive showing threads with more than one reply highlights this
<mungbean> what if ythey are in a link for full details?
<mungbean> the list members seem a bit anal
<popey> yes, yes they do
<popey> put plenty of detail in the mail
<mungbean> mentioned before that i got some interesting reply last time
<mungbean> not sure i want difficult people ;)
<popey> yeah, most are typical geeks with missing social skills
<popey> s/most/many/
<MooDoo> brill subscribed
<MooDoo> soo that's 701 mungbean ;)
<popey> 700 was approx
<MooDoo> I know I was just playing
 * TheOpenSourcerer is at home feeling crap whilst Souther Electric dig up his garden looking for a broken power supply cable
<MooDoo> eeeek
<TheOpenSourcerer> We are currently running of the street lamp ;-)
<TheOpenSourcerer> s\of\off
<MooDoo> ouch still no power :(
<TheOpenSourcerer> Anyway - I think I'm being stupid. Want to ask about wireless APs
<TheOpenSourcerer> In my home office I have a broadband router with a wifi network
<TheOpenSourcerer> House is flood wired with cat5
<TheOpenSourcerer> far away at the other end of the house i have a wifi AP - with 5 ethernet ports 1xWAN & 4 LAN
<popey> http://www.unixstickers.com/linux-keyboard-stickers
<popey> not seen those before
<directhex> aha! i have defeated etherpad
<directhex> its tangled corpse lies before my cluebat
<popey> etherpad lite?
<directhex> yes
<TheOpenSourcerer> I want the remote AP to act as a bridge so the IP dhcp server is always on my main adsl router and all devices connected to either wifi network share the same subnet
<directhex> which is inherently broken and bad in different yet similar ways to etherpad fat
<TheOpenSourcerer> Should this be hard to do or what?
<directhex> TheOpenSourcerer, AP in bridge mode?
<MooDoo> popey: no ubuntu or am i blind
<popey> correct
<TheOpenSourcerer> directhex: I think so yes.
<popey> TheOpenSourcerer: i have that setup here
<TheOpenSourcerer> But wifi bridges seem to refer to extending the wifi using wifi repeaters not over my physical LAN
<TheOpenSourcerer> So how do I configure the remote AP?
<popey> mine is just a netgear wifi router which has openwrt on it. works a treat
<popey> it's just a bridge
<popey> so whichever AP you're on you get an IP from the central DHCP server
<popey> exactly as you describe
<bigcalm> Funky
<TheOpenSourcerer> Good so I'm not being stupid at least
<TheOpenSourcerer> All my googling failed.
<diddledan> I've read that you can also have the two networks use the same ssid and security keys and you'll float between them
<popey> I have a Netgear WNDR3700 which has two radios
<popey> thats what I do diddledan
<TheOpenSourcerer> Perhaps my second AP doesn't support bridging - I'm not wanting to bridge over the air. I have cat5 cable
<popey> Most don't
<popey> Hence me flashing with openwrt
<popey> which does â»
<TheOpenSourcerer> Ah - OK.
<bigcalm> My router has two radios in it, so I have the 2nd one set to 5GHz. Laptop and phone then connect to whichever they like
<TheOpenSourcerer> I might have to flash my DG843G then I think
<popey> yeah, mine has two too
<bigcalm> popey: I still haven't tried to fix my bricked WNDR3800. Buying yours was a much simpler option :)
<MooDoo> my router doesn't support openwrt
<davmor2> MooDoo: have a look at DDWRT instead
<davmor2> MooDoo: Mine is listed on both however the gui part wasn't working on openwrt at the time of install but was on dd-wrt so I went with dd-wrt instead and it works very nicely :)
<popey> i have no gui on my openwrt
<popey> just telnet in and fiddle
<davmor2> popey: yeah I'm still finding my way around gateway commands as it is and needed the router up and running and configured so the gui was way quicker for me :)
<popey> hehe
<popey> mine is configured to have backup internet on a 3g dongle attached via USB
<MooDoo> davmor2: I think mine is just too old :)
<MooDoo> davmor2: yes not supported
<AlanBell> TheOpenSourcerer: is it the same AP we have in the office? I have just been trying to get that into bridge mode for SIP stuffs
<AlanBell> settled for a static IP address and the DMZ host thing
<mungbean> irssi reports lag on this chan now. didn't think it used to :S
<Laney> halp, english assistance required
<Laney> how do I write the sentence "Align the grid horizontally centrally"?
<AlanBell> "Centre the grid horizontally"
<mungbean> text in the grid or the grid?
<Laney> alanbell wins
<TheOpenSourcerer> Ah hi AlanBell
<TheOpenSourcerer> yes - the Tenda W311R
<TheOpenSourcerer> I *think* the  way to do it is to connect the LAN to one of the switched ports and disable the dhcp server
<TheOpenSourcerer> Nut I haven't tried that yet. I was just eating a ragingly hot curry :-D
<TheOpenSourcerer> s\Nut\But
<jaffa314> hi
<jaffa314> can enyone help me with ubuntu 13.04?
<jaffa314> nothin wrong with the ubuntu, but the touch screen i'm usin...
<jaffa314> dosen't work
<AlanBell> TheOpenSourcerer: ooh, that might work
<jaffa314> enyone here?
<TheOpenSourcerer> jaffa314: yes - but perhaps we can;t answer your question?
<AlanBell> jaffa314: lots of people here
<BigRedS> jaffa314: I don't think anyone's going to say they can definitely help without knowing what the problem is
<jaffa314> maybe...
<jaffa314> I have new pc running ubuntu
<AlanBell> if I want to install something from a ppa and it hasn't published for the version of Ubuntu I am on, can I force it somehow?
<jaffa314> 13.04
<AlanBell> without downloading the debs individually
<jaffa314> and viewsonic tuoch screen is installed
<jaffa314> but the tuoch function works only in folders
<Daviey> if it's compatible, just put the version that it is published for in your sources.list
<Daviey> AlanBell: ^
<AlanBell> Daviey: ah, right, that makes sense
<Daviey> deb http://launchpad/xx/x/x/x hardy main
<Daviey> :)
<jaffa314> is there some spesific driver for tuoch screens?
<AlanBell> anyone using RabbitMQ or knows if it is a good thing?
<mgdm> I'm not using it myself but I know people who speak highly of it
<AlanBell> I want a telephony thing to make something happen in a PHP application and I can apparently link them with rabbitMQ
<mgdm> (admittedly that's because I know one of the developers, but...)
<mungbean> i got a 100gb box.net account, but can't upload any files. great
<directhex> rabbitmq is... not bug-free
<diddledan> rabbitmq is used for openstack isn't it?
<diddledan> maybe that's why openstack is so evil? :-p
<shauno> nah, openstack's evil because the documentation is 2 years behind :/
<mungbean> can i just dd a centos iso onto usb stick?
<diddledan> mungbean: I think it depends on the bios you're gonna boot it with
<mungbean> "normal"
<diddledan> for e.g. apple systems will happily boot from such a stick
<mungbean> not apple
<mungbean> uentbootin aint recognising any sticks
<mungbean> got unetbootin to comply
<AlanBell> anyone know about unix sockets? I have an opensips server that is supposed to make a socket at /tmp/opensips.sock but if I look in /tmp I see nothing of the kind
<AlanBell> should I see a file there for a socket? can I cat it to read from it or something?
<mungbean> centos kernel panic on boot :(
 * bigcalm updates wedding website with new photo
<mgdm> AlanBell: you should see the file, yes
<mgdm> AlanBell: has it maybe ended up elsewhere, like /var/run or something?
<AlanBell> mgdm: doesn't appear to
<diddledan> AlanBell: is it chrooted to /var/lib/*
<AlanBell> however I just got UDP sockets working, so I might be able to run with that
<AlanBell> don't think it is chrooted, in fact there is a /tmp/opensips_fifo present when it is running
<diddledan> is that not it?
<TheOpenSourcerer> AlanBell: Just moved the cat5 cable from the WAN port to one of the switched ports on the AP and it's now serving IPs from the other router's DHCP server ;-)
<AlanBell> TheOpenSourcerer: awesome \o/
<mgdm> AlanBell: that sounds lie it
<TheOpenSourcerer> Think that was all I did.
<AlanBell> no, that fifo thing isn't it as far as I can tell, that is there even when I remove the bit that should create the socket I want
<AlanBell> however if UDP works, and I can read from a UDP socket using PHP then I should be good to proceed
<mgdm> you can
<mgdm> http://php.net/manual/en/function.stream-socket-client.php
<bigcalm> How would I express "192.168.1.8 - 192.168.1.10" as a / mask?
<mgdm> 192.168.1.8/30, but that will include .11
<mgdm> (I think)
<directhex> yeah, "you can't"
<directhex> since it's not a power of 2
<bigcalm> I see
<mungbean> handy program , see sipcalc
<mungbean> e.g. sipcalc 192.168.1.8/30
<bigcalm> Ta, I'll let Rackspace work it out ;)
<bigcalm> pwgen -1syc 16
<bigcalm> Nice and rememberable password generation :D
<ali1234> head -c 10 /dev/urandom | uuencode -
<ali1234> if you don't have pwgen for some reason
<bigcalm> ali1234: pwgen isn't installed by default :(
<bigcalm> (on Ubuntu)
<ali1234> neither is uuencode :(
<directhex> ali1234, that misses the point of pwgen
<ali1234> which is?
<directhex> ali1234, pwgen passwords are made of syllables, so they can be spoken out loud & memorized FAR more easily than random arrays of characters
<ali1234> not if you use -s
<directhex> well, yes, that's true
<directhex> but... don't
<bigcalm> Hehe
<bigcalm> It's for IPSec pre-shared keys
<bigcalm> Not something that's going to be spoken, ever
 * mgdm uses apg
<mgdm> mainly because I heard of it before pwgen
<bigcalm> mgdm: a 3 letter password is rather insecure
 * bigcalm h4x0r5 mgdm
<mgdm> well done :P
<bigcalm> That took a lot of damn effort to type
<ali1234> how do you set up a user so that they have no password and can only be accessed using su or sudo?
<directhex> --disabled-password param to adduser?
<bigcalm> Set their shell to /bin/false ?
<directhex> passwd -d
<ali1234> bigcalm: no, i still want to su to the used
<directhex> er, wait, -d is passwordless
<bigcalm> Ah
<ali1234> directhex: yeah, i *don't* want passwordless logins - hat's the exact opposite of what i want
<directhex> -l
 * bigcalm goes back to poking Rackspace
<ali1234> directhex: the man pages aren't clear on which is which imo
<ali1234> so i settled for a random 64 character password made with -s
<mungbean> disk utility says "warning the partition is misaligned by 1024 bytes, this may result in very poor performance"
<mungbean> seen that before?
<shauno> bigcalm: you probably are looking for 192.168.1.8/30, since if you subnet it, .11 will be your broadcast address - .9 and .10 will be the only usable IPs
<bigcalm> shauno: no subnets. It's very specific usage with no future expansion
<mgdm> shauno: I had wondered if he was using it for something like tcpwrappers or a firewall or some such
<bigcalm> I'll go with the /30
<mgdm> so the broadcast address wouldn't actually happen, if you see what i mean
<ali1234> does netmask actually have to be all 1s and then all 0s? or can you have say ...1101
<shauno> I'm not actually sure if netmask does.  wildcard doesn't, cidr does, netmask I'm unsure of
<AlanBell> how do you spell the woman's name that is a bit like "Romain"
<mgdm> Cisco (I think) have something that is like the inverse of a netmask, and doesn't need to be contiguous
<mgdm> but I can't think what it's called
<mgdm> netmask generally speaking though does have to be contiguous
<shauno> mgdm, yeah, that's the 'wildcard' one.  eg, /30 would be 0.0.0.3
<mgdm> ah, oops
<mgdm> A sysadmin friend of mine told me about it once, and I went 'wat'
<ali1234> AlanBell: romane?
<AlanBell> Romaine doesn't appear to have bounced
<mungbean> i hate promary and logical partitions :(
<diddledan> netmask doesn't need to be all ones followed by all zeroes - which makes it a bugger if you want to convert it to cidr
<shauno> it seems openbsd will accept a non-contiguous netmask, everything else known to man will look at you funny
<ali1234> figures
<diddledan> for e.g. you could have a netmask of 125
<diddledan> 255.255.255.125*
<diddledan> which would be evil
<mgdm> but why would you do that?
<ali1234> just to mess with people?
<mgdm> aside from impairment due to drink or drugs
<ali1234> i can't think of a good reason
<diddledan> to end up with unbalanced address ranges :-p
<shauno> you can do some fun stuff if you're brave
<AlanBell> so you can split your subnet into odd and even halves
<mungbean> "fun" netmasks are a headache
<diddledan> AlanBell: bingo
<mgdm> ooooh, I remember that
<bashrc> Have never really done anythin exotic with netmasks
<AlanBell> that is . . inadvisable
<mgdm> CCNA course knowledge being dredged up from long-term storage
<diddledan> AlanBell: understatement acknowledged
<diddledan> or should that be "understatement++"
<shauno> eg, say you have 10.0.0.x for siteone-production and 10.0.1.x for siteone-nonprod.  and .2 for sitetwo-production and .3 for sitetwo-nonprod.
<shauno> you can aggregate your routes to each site as 10.0.0.0/23 and 10.0.0.2/23, but firewall against 0.0.1.0 so the odd-numbered subnets are treated differently
<mgdm> shauno: and hire a newbie one day who promptly fails to understand and breaks it :-D
<shauno> what's wrong with a little job security ;)
<diddledan> mgdm: hint, don't hire n00bs.... hire me instead :-p
<bigcalm> Hey, you lot need to stop melting my brain
<diddledan> bigcalm: did you get wet again?
<mgdm> diddledan: hehe
<bigcalm> What's wrong with this line from Rackspace? "Phase 2 Diffie-Hellman Group/PFS (NOT RECOMMENDED (1/2/5/NONE)"
<diddledan> bigcalm: unbalanced parentheses?
 * bigcalm wants to claw his eyes out
<bigcalm> diddledan: spot on
<diddledan> I like nesting parentheses in sentences so I end up with a closing )))) - spot the programmer
 * bigcalm drums fingers waiting for VPN to be created
<mgdm> diddledan: you a fan of Lisp?
<diddledan> mgdm: I've never really looked at lisp
<mgdm> (started (I (learning (scheme))) at the weekend
<diddledan> mgdm: I quite like tcl and obj-c in terms of their syntax however
<bigcalm> diddledan: it's confusing when somebody closes a ( with a smiliey :)
<shauno> bigcalm: I do that far too often
<mgdm> diddledan: I'm not a fan of ObjC, but it's not CFML, which I was looking at earlier
<shauno> because ending (this with :)) makes my smiley look disturbed/double-chinned
<bigcalm> Hehe
<bigcalm> Is it LUG o'clock yet?
<diddledan> bigcalm: yeah, I haven't worked out whether to leave the smilie doing a dual purpose smile and close bracket or to put another bracket on and suffer the possibility that an uninitiated might think my smilie was doing something different to what I intended
 * bigcalm wants to get out of the office
<shauno> it doesn't help that at a glance, (that :)) looks mismatched
<diddledan> shauno: smilies need noses dammit! :-)
<diddledan> AlanBell: how did you find me on the twitters?
<diddledan> :-p
 * AlanBell has spies *everywhere*
<diddledan> <.<
<diddledan> >.>
<diddledan> o.o
<shauno> search for awkward inuendos, you'll appear in <30 seconds
<diddledan> shauno: you love them really
<mungbean> just booted 13.10 beta
<mungbean> you get smacked in the face with the online shopping stuf
<Azelphur> not in xubuntu :D
<AlanBell> and not in a remotely useful way either, if you search for example for "socks" in the dash, I get an assortment of songs related to socks, but no actual socks
<popey> if i search for socks I get google docks
<popey> it rhymes!
<mungbean> search for gparted and get katy perry
<mungbean> its spam
<AlanBell> well the problem is that you think it is an application launcher
<AlanBell> super+a is the application launcher
<mungbean> my mistake
<bigcalm> I was about to try the shopping search in 13.04, but then I remembered that I disabled it as soon as I had the system installed
<AlanBell> super is the omniglobaleverything searcher
<mungbean> synapse is the launcher
<mungbean> that i use the most
<bigcalm> Ooooo
<bigcalm> I did not know about super + a
<mungbean> too late for super+a , installing centos now
<bigcalm> And super + f
<bigcalm> It makes sense now
<bigcalm> But having a hint to use that would have been nice :)
<AlanBell> if you hold super for a while it should pop up the hints
<mungbean> the BFB is ugly now
<AlanBell> if you have a tall enough screen
<mungbean> i noticed amazon on the unity bar too
<bigcalm> I'm looking forward to see a default icon for AOL
<mungbean> worked fast on my laptop though
<mungbean> centos 6 is gnome 2 :D
 * bigcalm squiees at EmergencyKittens on twitter
<mgdm> when our sites are in dev mode all the ads get replaced with placekitten.com
<bigcalm> :D
<diddledan> omg that's a cutie
<bigcalm> I have the kittenify bookmark
<mgdm> bigcalm: Oh?I wrote one
<mgdm> but it was rather specific
<diddledan> mgdm: I try to use placekitten when I can, too
<bigcalm> javascript:(function(){fcb=function(d){ktndata=d;var p=document.getElementsByTagName('img');for(var i in p){p[i].width=p[i].width;p[i].height=p[i].height;p[i].src=d.items[Math.floor(Math.random()*(d.items.length))].media.m;}};if(typeof ktndata=='undefined'){var jp=document.createElement('script');jp.setAttribute('type','text/javascript'); jp.setAttribute('src','http://api.flickr.com/services/feeds/photos_public.gne?tags=kitten&tagmo
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<diddledan> o_O
<mgdm> errr
<bigcalm> Sorry
<diddledan> I was gonna say exactly the same thing, bigcalm
<diddledan> it's like you read my mind
<bigcalm> :P
<bigcalm> Your mind is full of rubbish then ;)
<diddledan> lol
<mgdm> brain.js
<mungbean> today is going slow
<Laney> one second per second
<bigcalm> 1Hz
<diddledan> according to mr spock hours feel like days and minutes feel like hours. it's going to take 2 days to finish repairs to enterprise.
<mungbean> centos just splatted my ubuntu bootloader
<diddledan> mungbean: I bet you secretly enjoyed the perverse pleasure of that?
<mungbean> it was my 12.04 install which i am keeping
<mungbean> want triple booty
<bigcalm> I wonder if aq is napping
<mungbean> can't even boot ubutnu now :(
<mungbean> boot-reapri looks handy
<mungbean> repair
<bigcalm> T- 22 days 23 hours
<AlanBell> yay
<mungbean> tom clancy is dead?
<bigcalm> AlanBell: updated the website is a new photo - the pre-wedding photo shoot with Tony went great
<bigcalm> s/is/with
 * bigcalm be tired
<diddledan> maybe productivity took a dive the moment I discovered emergencykittens on twitters
<bigcalm> Oops, sorry
<bigcalm> Humm, that account posts more frequently that I expected
<diddledan> indeed
<diddledan> every time I look at twitters there's a new kitty
<AlanBell> O.M.G. the dash is now showing me pre-owned socks on ebay
<AlanBell> I did not want to know that this was even a thing
<bigcalm> LOL
<AlanBell> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Odd-Future-Donut-Socks-/261294778270?pt=US_Men_s_Socks
<diddledan> AlanBell: the question is were they owned by a teenager or not
<diddledan> eww
<mungbean> boot-repair saves the day
<bigcalm> Cobblers
<davmor2> bigcalm: oh you need some shoes repairing?
<bigcalm> davmor2: na, I was thinking of mungbean's boot-repair
<bigcalm> T - 22 days, 22 hours, 22 minutes
<davmor2> bigcalm: okay so now it's becoming real :)
<diddledan> 22 days till saucy?
<bigcalm> If 13.10 is released on the last Thursday of the month, then that is only 21 days away
<bigcalm> My count down is far more important
<bigcalm> Now I need to decide if I am to play badminton on the 24th or not
<bigcalm> davmor2: shame that the 23rd isn't a LUG
<diddledan> aah, weddings?
<bigcalm> diddledan: just the one :P
<diddledan> lol
<bigcalm> I don't think they would like me having two or more weddings on one day
<diddledan> don't fancy the polygamy thing then?
<bigcalm> diddledan: I said they, didn't include myself in that :P
<diddledan> hehehe
<bigcalm> But I think that one marriage is enough for me
<popey> !saucy
<lubotu3> Ubuntu 13.10 (Saucy Salamander) will be the 19th release of Ubuntu. Announcement: http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/1252 - Discussion and support in #ubuntu+1. Release date will be 17th October 2013.
<popey> 17th
<bigcalm> Oh, much earlier than I had thought
<diddledan> popey: that presupposes that a) I know what the date is today, and b) that I can count. neither of which are certain
<diddledan> :-p
<popey> http://www.engadget.com/2013/10/02/dell-xps-13-15-refreshed/
<popey> holy bejeezus look at that resolution
<MartijnV1S> does that include the dev editions? :)
<MartijnV1S> also.. 3200??!?
<popey> i wish
<popey> i know!
<AlanBell> gosh
<popey> mad
<daftykins> XD
<daftykins> i had some really good luck
<daftykins> that dead server OS disk of mine? after a night to cool down it functioned for a short time plugged into my desktop!
<popey> yay
<daftykins> it kept dropping once it warmed up enough, but there was a long enough window to get back what i wanted ^_^
<daftykins> although, now i'm seeing some nasty SMART values incrementing on the laptop drive i put in instead :D
<daftykins> Hardware ECC recovered, Read Error Rate and Seek Error Rate
<daftykins> ooh, Command Timeout is high too
<daftykins> it's quite possible it might be worse than just iffy disks...
<daftykins> on a completely unrelated note - what would you guys suggest for a backup device to handle 6TB+ of data? :) it'd mostly stay off in storage, so my first thought was tape - but that seems quite expensive just for a drive
<popey> how many copies?
<daftykins> just the one really
<popey> how often?
<daftykins> i'd go for a NAS but i'd be concerned about leaving it off in storage most of the time
<daftykins> it'd probably only get updated monthly or quarterly
<popey> blue ray?
<daftykins> a 4 x 4TB NAS appears to be ~750-850 Â£
<ali1234> 300 blu rays yeah
<popey> 150 quid for a burner
<daftykins> nah optical media isn't reliable enough
<popey> â»
<daftykins> plus the time to do it would be ouch
<ali1234> if you're worried about the price then i doubt you really need to back up all 6TBs
<daftykins> my client wants to :)
<daftykins> any thoughts on the NAS that mostly stays off approach?
<ali1234> i don't see why it would be a problem
<ali1234> nothing else will be anywhere near as cheap and easy
<popey> https://www.ohloh.net/p/elementaryos gosh.. 131 years of effort..
<popey> how?
<daftykins> ali1234: yeah, possibly monthly spinups and checks to keep it happy
<popey> https://www.ohloh.net/p/debian hehe 22K years
<Azelphur> ali1234: dude who ran SR got caught, BTC price has a serious case of the tanking :(
<directhex> daftykins, i built a nas recently.
<directhex> Azelphur, so btc prices were inflated by their usefulness to potheads#/ shock, etc
<directhex> gah this damn keyboard
<Azelphur> directhex: pretty much, that's certainly a factor of their value
<AlanBell> gap in the market now then I guess
<MartijnVdS> start your own clone
 * AlanBell will not be filling it :)
<AlanBell> I am shocked it was being run from the USA
<Azelphur> yea, a new one will no doubt sprout up
<bigcalm> Dad complains about how slow his Windows laptop is getting...
<bigcalm> Me: time to make the push to Linux then
<bigcalm> Dad: dream on
<popey> My neighbour asked me for an ubuntu cd last night to replace windows on another neighbours laptop
<MartijnVdS> \
<MartijnVdS> \o/ even
<popey> ooh!
<popey> amazon now do pickup
<MartijnVdS> pickup?
<MartijnVdS> if you're a seller, you mean?
<popey> no, delivery
<popey> they leave it at a place - a shop
<MartijnVdS> ah, cool
<popey> you pick it up
<MartijnVdS> bol.com (the biggest Dutch "amazon clone" does that too now)
<popey> directhex: whats the thing I need to buy to make xbox controller work on my pc?
<popey> wireless gaming receiver?
<daftykins> directhex: ah what did you make? the guy already has a 3ware controller based RAID6 file server which the media lives on, (film collection) then there's a 2 x 2TB RAID 1 synology NAS for backup, but now he wants to backup the films too :S
<directhex> popey, a wireless xbox controller?
<daftykins> popey: yeah wireless transceiver
<directhex> popey, yes, let me find you an amazon link
<popey> 360 ya
<daftykins> or get a wired one
<daftykins> the wireless jobs are like Â£9 on ebay
<popey> hmm wired would be cheaper, no?
<popey> and would still work on 360?
<directhex> popey, i use a wired pad for my pc
<daftykins> wireless still does, it just requires the USB dongle job
<directhex> popey, it's a massive pain sharing a pad between 360 and pc, as you need to re-sync it each time
<popey> ahh
<popey> this probably wouldn't move much
<popey> so wired makes sense
<popey> worth getting an official one?
<daftykins> directhex: what do you think about a NAS that only gets powered on once a month/quarter ?
<bigcalm> Backups eh?
<popey> directhex: works with steam on linux?
<bigcalm> Is an always running drive more or less likely to crash than a drive that is powered up now and then?
<directhex> popey, the wireless doodad is hard to find on its own - or an official one is, anyway
<directhex> popey, well, hard to find the real microsoft one new & boxed
<directhex> can't find a canonical amazon link, fr'example, just a lot of resellers
<popey> amazon have them
<popey> Price:Â£24.99 & Free Delivery with Amazon Prime
<popey> oh, wireless doohdah, sorry
<directhex> popey, the 360 wireless doodad, and the wired pad, get detected as the same device
<bigcalm> popey: I've have had no problems using my wired xbox 360 controller with Linux or Windows
<directhex> popey, i use my wired 360 pad for playing on steam/linux
<ging> how do i force apt-get to reinstall the repository packages inplace of a custom on?
<popey> suhweet
<directhex> daftykins, well...... drive selection will be important. don't buy NAS drives!
<popey> ging: wat?
<daftykins> directhex: i was looking at ones with WD Red 4TBs in
<popey> ging: apt-get install packagename=versionnumber
<daftykins> 4 x 4TB
<directhex> daftykins, do NOT use reds for your use case.
<popey> ging: e.g. apt-get install foo=1.0
<ging> popey: i tried that doesn't seem to work
<popey> ging: it does if you have that version in your repo list
<daftykins> directhex: D: how come? only happy running, them?
<popey> ging: apt-cache policy packagename
<directhex> daftykins, reds are designed for being turned on 24/7 - they basically don't spin down, ever
<ging> oh i had a space
<popey> yay
<ging> it works now thank popey
<directhex> daftykins, as opposed to greens, which will spin down instantly given the opportunity, and are *usually* a terrible NAS drive as a result
<popey> ging: cool
 * bigcalm slithers off to the LUG
<daftykins> directhex: yeah i only get WD RE's normally
<directhex> daftykins, i built a 10-drive synology recently from a combination of wd reds, seagate nas, and hitachi ultrastar
<daftykins> directhex: do you think tape would be a good idea instead?
<daftykins> intentionally mixed?
<directhex> daftykins, yeah... mitigates the risk of bad batches a little
<directhex> daftykins, tape......... well, yes, it's a better system for your use, but consumer tape is dead, and enterprise tape has a very high startup cost
<daftykins> cool :)
<directhex> blu-ray?
<directhex> daftykins, used to have a 128 node cluster with ibm deathstars in......... lot of disk replacements to do on that
<daftykins> surely BDs would have a weak lifespan in storage
<daftykins> haha nice
<directhex> daftykins, what kind of lifespan are you after?
<directhex> http://www.hughsnews.ca/faqs/authoritative-blu-ray-disc-bd-faq/13-disc-longevity-handling-storage-and-disposal#13.2
<daftykins> *click*
<dwatkins> and this is why I copy the data to my NAS from them
<daftykins> dwatkins: huh?
<daftykins> oh from optical media
<daftykins> well we're talking backup *of* a NAS atm :D
<dwatkins> oh sorry, hadn't read back
<daftykins> np!
<daftykins> my client wants to backup his 6TB+ (growing) of film collection
<dwatkins> in my experience, the best way to backup a NAS is to another NAS or a hard disk that's then turned off until the next backup.
<daftykins> i'm debating the best plan
<daftykins> yeah, i'm just concerned about one remaining off
<dwatkins> stiction, yeah
<daftykins> it might get updated monthly or quarterly at best
<dwatkins> if you really want active monitoring of a storage array, there are options such as Panasas' concept of a node for each disk.
<dwatkins> they run a derevation of BSD on each blade, and the disks and data are checked continuously.
<dwatkins> as you can guess, they're a bit expensive
<daftykins> well the live 3ware driven one emails me Friday nights with the verify result :)
<daftykins> a potential offline one would live sort of off-site (other building at the other end of the garden) where the other backup devices live
<daftykins> and get fired up occasionally to be backed up to / checked on
<daftykins> (assuming i go the NAS route)
<dwatkins> a backup isn't a backup until it's been verified, as you are no doubt aware
<dwatkins> is it worth considering "cloud" options?
<daftykins> because his existing array is a bit old now, i've had a lot of the WD RE 2TBs die on me
<daftykins> a friend mentioned amazon iceberg or something?
<dwatkins> I have 3TB disks in my 4-bay Synology DS-413j, it's only 6 months old.
<daftykins> don't quite fancy uploading 6TB over 2Mb though D:
<dwatkins> yeah, depends how often the data changes, I guess.
<daftykins> it's mostly safeguarding against the hours we paid a kid to rip all the DVDs to disk
<daftykins> i think his ex-wife stole the physical collection too! :>
<dwatkins> bah
<dwatkins> how about a setup with four disks in a PC, mirrored or somesuch?
<daftykins> well the cheapest disk-based approach may be to buy a few, plug them into the 3ware controller, copy over then remove and store
<daftykins> *or* upgrade the existing 8 x 2TB, then store the old disks
<dwatkins> yeah, although there's no additional redundancy, that should be okay
<dwatkins> storing the old disks is fine until they stop working, but by then 6 TB of space should be really cheap ;)
<daftykins> yeah and they're kinda flaky already
<daftykins> kept replacing the WD2002FYPS with WD2003FYYS under warranty
<daftykins> that was when i lost 4 in a short space of time at one point
<dwatkins> I just hope I don't lose more than one disk at a time.
<daftykins> hehe
<daftykins> 8 bay and RAID6 was too pricey?
<dwatkins> Panasas arrays have an option to allow for 2 disks to fail.
<dwatkins> yeah, the 4-bay Synology was expensive enough.
<daftykins> *nod*
<daftykins> my own personal 6 x 1TB RAID5 is 6 years old now
<dwatkins> perhaps I'll buy another couple disks and put them in a spare PC to have another copy of the 8 TB array.
<daftykins> all disks out of warranty, so not quite so safe
<dwatkins> previously, I used three disks in USB enclosures, so the NAS was a step up for me.
<daftykins> actually come to think of it, maybe the cheapest backup is just a handful of single disks?
<daftykins> 4 x 3TB perhaps
<dwatkins> indeed, make a volume out of them
<daftykins> well not even that, just leave them as singles
<daftykins> and spread the data, 4 x 3TB could allow for 2 copies to start with
<dwatkins> ah yes, that would work, split them alphabetically or something
<daftykins> maybe mix brands too
<dwatkins> yeah, and compare the md5sums periodically
<dwatkins> or just mirror them
<daftykins> would i want consumer disks then 0o
<dwatkins> (with monitoring etc.)
<daftykins> sooo many choices
<dwatkins> compare the meercat^W prices
<dwatkins> ...then choose the one just above the cheapest (that's how I buy white goods for the kitchen)
<Myrtti> :->
<Myrtti> I was about to show a picture but flickr seems to feel unwell
<daftykins> aww
<daftykins> have some stern words with it, Myrtti
<Myrtti> "	
<Myrtti> Bad, bad panda!
<Myrtti> Come on. We want photos.
<Myrtti> Weâre aware of the problem and are fixing it. Thanks for your patience. "
<Myrtti> ok then.
<Myrtti> no flickr for yooooo
<daftykins> d'aww
<daftykins> what treat were we in for?
<MartijnVdS> Too many people used up their terabyte??
<Myrtti> daftykins: massive meerkat
<Myrtti> I think it's agent Maya if I'm not totally mistaken
<daftykins> 0o
<Myrtti> (dsample works for CTM)
<Myrtti> no, still won't work
<Myrtti> http://www.meetup.com/Agile-Peterborough/photos/12078592/185878742/#185921582 has some photos tho
<Myrtti> of the meerkats, not just him
<daftykins> :D
<Myrtti> apparently they're reeeeeaally annoying to try to fit into a car :-D
<daftykins> lmao
<daftykins> i can see that
<Azelphur> ali1234: for bonus points, it seems like mtgox is blocking withdrawals \o/
<Azelphur> I have 15 BTC trapped
<ali1234> they've been doing that forever
<Azelphur> ali1234: BTC withdrawals, not fiat
<ali1234> yeah
<Azelphur> o.O
<ali1234> not sure why you would even want to withdraw it though i mean what are you going to do with it?
<Azelphur> have it not be in mtgox because I don't particularly trust them atm
<ali1234> ...why did you leave it in there then?
<Azelphur> well 5 of it I forgot I even had
<Azelphur> and the other 10 I deposited to sell, but then decided against it
<ali1234> so how low do we think it's gonna go?
<directhex> i assume you can withdraw in magic cards, from the magic the gathering online exchange?
<Myrtti> here we go then, Agent Maya https://secure.flickr.com/photos/duncansample/9789747666/
<daftykins> hehehe
<AlanBell> what do we compare it to?
<AlanBell> is an ipod shuffle going to work with Ubuntu?
<popey> depends which generation
<AlanBell> a new one
<popey> almost certainly not
<mungbean> how long was the giffgaff outage tonight?
<mungbean> couldn't make calls around 5.45pm
<mgdm> you sure it was giffgaff? Could have been their network, could have been the cell you were connected to, etc etc
<mungbean> was GG
<mungbean> happened last friday all day too
<mungbean> http://community.giffgaff.com/t5/Service-Updates/Calls-and-texts-failing-2-Oct-2013/m-p/10088973#M82657
<mungbean> was completely out earlier, still intermittent
<mungbean> 60 pages of whingeing forumites
<mungbean> since 4,30pm , not bad going
<AlanBell> popey: I ended up getting a cheap knockoff that will work better
<diddledan> AlanBell: ipod?
<diddledan> or did I miss something?
<AlanBell> yeah, was thinking about a shuffle for eldest offspring
<AlanBell> ended up getting a fake nano
<AlanBell> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140942548640
<popey> wonder what connector it really has
<AlanBell> yeah, that is an oddly wide thing, I would expect it only has a couple of pins connected and is a fairly normal USB connector
<AlanBell> you get what you pay for, but if you are purchasing something that has a reasonable probability of being left on a bus then it is best not to pay too much
<AlanBell> (some people leave them on Eurostar)
<dwatkins> my nephew left his iphone in IKEA
<popey> â»
<Azelphur> Anyone have any recommendations for running a mail server setup for a small business?
<Azelphur> so, few employees, with email
<Azelphur> I think the Ubuntu community documentation on the subject is outdated. :<
<ali1234> what do you mean by "mail server"?
<Azelphur> ali1234: the full whack, including webmail
<ali1234> outlook i guess
<Azelphur> nope.
<Azelphur> xD
<ali1234> outsource it
<Azelphur> roundcube has been recommended on a different channel, looks like it'll do :)
<directhex> Azelphur, sogo for webmail & calendaring. postfix/dovecot for mail back-end
<Azelphur> SoGo actually looks cool too
<Azelphur> liking the calendar, most of the way in with roundcube though so will keep that in mind as an alternative :)
#ubuntu-uk 2013-10-03
<popey> http://www.engadget.com/2013/10/02/dell-venue-pro-8-and-pro-11-hands-on/
<popey> be interesting to play with non-windows on those
<popey> given they're intel based
<Azelphur> what's interesting about them?
<Azelphur> oh, Intel based. I guess that'd be cool, there aren't many Intel based reasonably sized tablets floating about
<popey> yeah, the 10" one is full HD
<Azelphur> not bad :)
<Azelphur> 10 hours battery on an Intel is new, too
<Azelphur> I've officially decided to stop using compiz \o/
<Azelphur> fed up with the instability and gaming badness it brings xD
<dogmatic69> Hi all
<dogmatic69> some reason my pc stopped booting. showing CIFS VFS: cifs_mount failed w/return code = -113
<Myrtti> dogmatic69: fixed it?
<dogmatic69> Myrtti: for some reason i needed to turn my nas on first
<Myrtti> sounds about right
<dogmatic69> idk why as it is not setup to mount it
<dogmatic69> never had to before
<dogmatic69> I have a script to mount it which I run manually, after booting the nas was not mounted either
<MooDoo> morning all
<mungbean> "Eye tests are free for over 40s who have a family history of glaucoma
<mungbean> interesting. wonder how i prove it
<mungbean> i think i just tick a box on a form
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<mungbean> hello giantclam
<bigcalm> Oh not you as well :P
<DJones> mungbean: I've come across that question before http://www.nhs.uk/chq/pages/895.aspx?CategoryID=68&SubCategoryID=157
<mungbean> "Youâll be asked to show proof that youâre entitled to a free NHS sight test."
<DJones> mungbean: http://www.nhs.uk/NHSEngland/Healthcosts/Documents/2009/HC11Nov09.pdf Page 36 of the pdf mentions evidence on an NHS medical card
<diddledan> mungbean: nhs entitlements usually require a card of some sort. like diabetes requires a card to get free prescriptions
<mungbean> my dad had glaucoma
<dwatkins> we get free eye tests here in Scotland
<diddledan> dwatkins: don't expect the freebies to last if scotland goes independant - atm afaik they use westminster funds (taxes from england) to pay their free services
<DJones> Pretty sure the rules used to include grandparents as having glaucoma as one of the triggers for free eye tests as well, but that looks to have changed
<DJones> If your council waste collection does recycling etc and uses Recyclebank, they normally have a few free eye test offers to use points earned from what you've recycled
<dwatkins> diddledan: indeed, although I think it's unlikely enough people will vote 'yes' in the refferendum.
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Virus Appreciation Day! :-D
<diddledan> JamesTait: no, just no!
<dwatkins> What is there to appreciate about virii?
<JamesTait> Well, in spite of our best efforts to control them, they're incredibly resilient and adaptive.
<JamesTait> And they brought down the alien mothership in Independence Day.  That has to count for something, right?
<popey> s/virii/viruses/
<dwatkins> There was a scene cut from the film which explained how Jeff Goldblum's character in ID4 was able to compile code which ran on the alien mothership. It was all related to the ship they had captured in the 40s.
<dwatkins> thanks popey, I sit corrected
<JamesTait> dwatkins, I read about that scene.  I can understand why it was cut for the mass-market, but I wonder if they ever released a geeks' edition with all the gory details. ;)
<dwatkins> "...in the seven minutes of cut scenes included in the extended release Independence Day DVD, Goldblum is actually shown tinkering with his PowerBook inside the recovered craft from the Roswell crash site, mumbling something about how the spaceship was running off the same programming language he was able to decipher before
<dwatkins> "
<diddledan> erm
<diddledan> a signal with a reducing cyclic rate isn't a programming language
<diddledan> I'm glad they cut that scene because it wouldn't have made sense
<diddledan> unless they changed how he worked out when the attack was due
<dwatkins> I think it means that the programming language he decyphered before was derived from the ship which crashed at Roswell, nothing to do with the satellites.
<diddledan> so the government released the programming language to the public?
<dwatkins> perhaps the alien technology was used to develop some modern technology
<dwatkins> reverse engineered and then used in the 1970s, maybe
<diddledan> his first knowledge of the roswell crash was the announcement by the secretary of defence that "there was no alien crash in roswell new mexico" "isn't entirely accurate"
<dwatkins> yes, but he may have encountered a language which was based on the alien craft's OS years beforehand and made the connection
<shauno> probably in jurasic park ;)
<diddledan> true except that the mad professor (brent spiner) professed that they hadn't made any headway in the many years they had the craft until the big spaceships arrived and "all the gizmos started lighting up. the past 24 hours has been really exciting."
<dwatkins> haha yeah, SGI's success was actually based on alien computers
<gordonjcp> and on that note, Var'aq -> http://www.oocities.org/connorbd/varaq/
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<dwatkins> diddledan: good point, maybe they read it from ROM
<daftykins> diddledan: what film is that from?
<diddledan> daftykins: independence day
<diddledan> I used to be able to recite the script verbatim
<daftykins> ah thought so :)
<daftykins> haha
<dwatkins> I know Back to the Future a lot better than Independance Day
<diddledan> I was addicted to it as a teenager because it was one of the very few vhs tapes I owned with a movie on
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> yay GTA Online works when all the kids are at school / work :>
<daftykins> argh got as far as the first task now it's seized up again
<daftykins> pesky online implementations ;)
<diddledan> daftykins: no work?
<daftykins> nope
<diddledan> it's 10:30 - dietcoke break
<diddledan> oh, no, that was 11:30
<daftykins> haha
<daftykins> finally it loaded
<diddledan> I suck at popculture references
<daftykins> i'm amazed anyone remembers :D
<popey> I very nearly bought GTAV yesterday
<popey> Happened to be buying something else on Amazon and it called out to me.
<popey> I actually deleted it from my basket.
 * TheOpenSourcerer has a horrible cold - sniff sniff cough splutter
<Myrtti> happy Virus Appreciation Day to you too
<popey> Happy Virus appreciation day!
<popey> (see what i did there)
<daftykins> oh dear the message is spreading D:
<daftykins> like a...
<daftykins> popey: impressive restraint, there
<popey> yeah
<popey> did buy a wired xbox controller tho
<Laney> holding out for ps4
<daftykins> booo
<shauno> that's how I Amazon too.  add everything I want.  trim it down to what I can justify.  then trim it down to what I can afford.  And then kick out the odd item that's being shipped by some oddball and doubling the shipping cost
<diddledan> lol
<mungbean> where do i find the pgpk and pgpv packages in centos?
<Myrtti> shauno: yeah. I manage to talk myself out of most amazon purchases that way
<shauno> we don't have Prime available here.  so it's free shipping over 25 yoyos, unless you picked something that's not shipped by amazon, in which case they'll tack on seemingly random amounts of shippign cost :/
<Myrtti> then again I don't delete everything I can't justify
<Myrtti> I just move them to my wishlist and hope someone else will buy them
<daftykins> i gave in late last night and bought a 120GB SSD for my server and a 2TB WD Red drive too
<shauno> I try not to use the wishlist.  because it likes to put them back on the front page, under "here, you know you want to .."
<daftykins> Â£130 total!
<Myrtti> shauno: few years ago I participated in the Google+ secret santa and it was great
<popey> heh
<popey> I did too!
<popey> (never got anything)
<diddledan> o_O
<Myrtti> used Amazon wishlists, it really made my Christmas, just had been laid off and money was tight
<popey> and it was odd seeing the spreadsheet fully of people's sob stories
<Myrtti> got a tea cozy, a "Good Night Keith Moon" book, and watercolours
<popey> it felt like you can't say "I didn't get anything" because then you're just being ungrateful.
<Myrtti> yeah well I did buy few things myself too
<popey> ditto.
<Myrtti> (for others)
<popey> hey ho
<Myrtti> yeah, that's what it is
<Myrtti> but yeah, amazon wishlists are great, have few times just checked what friends have on theirs and that's been their christmas present solved
<shauno> I'm still trying to behave after I accidentally bought a 140cm tall monkey off ebay.  I'm meant to be saving :(
<mungbean> pciture?
<diddledan> or it didn't happen :-p
<dwatkins> how can you accidentally buy a monkey the size of a person?
<shauno> http://cl.ly/image/011m1D0w2X3h
<dwatkins> ...and what's the ebay listing called?
<diddledan> that's a funky munky
<popey> haha
<phillipshum> that's never an accident
<shauno> ebay really should have a breathalizer
<dwatkins> I want one now
<shauno> http://www.ebay.ie/itm/110911008080  :)
<mungbean> shauno: what? is that a new lodger?
<shauno> it really could have been planned better though.  eg, I really shouldn't have shipped it to the office.  for many reasons.  not least having to walk home with it
<mungbean> carry it home piggy back
<phillipshum> free P+P!
<shauno> free p&p from china isn't always a good thing.  it means it'll arrive sometime in the next 3 months :(
<phillipshum> haha
<diddledan> shauno: and possibly wet
<daftykins> shauno: lmao
<davmor2> Morning all
<daftykins> and you bought this... why? :)
<daftykins> surprise surprise, GTA Online is full of griefers
<popey> haha
<popey> what do they do?
<popey> I saw a YT video by olli43 where he shot at another player and then got kicked off the world
<davmor2> popey: kill each other and steal their cars?
<popey> thats reasonable â»
<daftykins> popey: yeah some randomer got in my car, then bailed out, then killed me
<daftykins> then killed me a second time later on, when we were both paired up for a mission
<popey> that seems like part of the game
<daftykins> so... yeah extremely frustrating
<popey> oh, that's less so
<popey> but tbh I'd probably do that too â»
<daftykins> it does let you turn on a mode so that you don't get hassle from anyone else unless you're on a job
<popey> because they can't see you?
<daftykins> something like that yeah
<daftykins> about to start a team deathmatch type game
<daftykins> haha two guys dropped so i was on a 4 player team vs 2
<daftykins> who i killed myself
<phillipshum> I was picturing epic-scale gang warfare
<phillipshum> 4 v 4 sounds a bit .... limited
<daftykins> well it was an introductory objective
<daftykins> you can't judge an entire game's multiplayer on one setup ;)
<phillipshum> true true
<diddledan> 4v4 was commonplace on dialup connections
<daftykins> Rockstars lack of servers right now and thus issues with Online probably make it like dialup :D
<popey> STOP IT!
<popey> I will end up buying it!
<popey> â»
<phillipshum> the loading screens should include modem dial tones
<phillipshum> I miss those
<daftykins> rofl it loaded a second game of the same, 2v2
<daftykins> i killed both again
<daftykins> popey: buy buy buy :D
<popey> or loading screens that build up line by line
<popey> to build the suspense
<popey> then a message which obliterates it
<popey> PROGRAM: GTAV
<popey> </speccy>
 * popey squeals like a pig^W Sinclair Spectrum
<daftykins> :>
<phillipshum> shift + run/stop
<daftykins> oh wow, i just get a text on my phone when someone else sets up a race
<daftykins> so i select it and the map moves over to where it's set
<gordonjcp> daftykins: GTAV?
<gordonjcp> not tried it in multiplayer yet
<daftykins> yes sir
<daftykins> yeah i think it's only working for me since everyone's at work or school :D
<gordonjcp> heh
<daftykins> i tried a couple of times of evenings but it's just timed out
<daftykins> i just realised my guy looks like Bono.
<daftykins> oops.
<shauno> no wonder people are shooting you
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> that was before i got the shades that completed the look :(
<daftykins> aww i lost the race
<gordonjcp> heh
<daftykins> aww lost that one too as he had a far faster car
<directhex> you don't need a fast car to win a race
<directhex> you need a tank
<daftykins> ooh yes won a cycling race
<diddledan> directhex: is that why the tortoise beat the hare?
<daftykins> hahaha
 * daftykins guides popey's mouse hand to buying GTA on Amazon
<daftykins> i had to visit an ATM to deposit cash i'd earnt into my account @_@
<daftykins> i'll stop going on about it now :)
<shauno> I really should get a new console someday.  my NES just can't keep up with all this stuff
<daftykins> :)
<diddledan> shauno: you've got an amiga, what more do you need?!
<diddledan> or did that disappear?
<shauno> moar toys?
<diddledan> shining bright like a diamond
<shauno> I actually really fancy the sound of all this new steam stuff.  eventually.  especially if I can cram xbmc back on there without too much ugliness
<daftykins> it'd be nice of the XBMC team could start hacking in some kind of Steam switcher ;)
<diddledan> there still isn't much in the way of AAA titles available for loonicks/steamos
<shauno> well, my 'daily driver' is OSX, so I'm used to that
<diddledan> does "GeForce 8600, Radeon 2400HD or newer, 256MB" cover my macbook pro's Intel HD4000?
<daftykins> 'cover' ?
<daftykins> oh i see what you mean
<diddledan> daftykins: will it work
<daftykins> maybe, just not for frames :D
<diddledan> it seems, for a platform that uses intel graphics extensively, the app store never mentions whether a game will work on an intel chip
<daftykins> i can't say i'd expect anyone to try and run games on such a thing :)
<diddledan> e.g. in this case, supreme commander 2. that's all they list in terms of gfx requirements
<diddledan> why wouldn't a mac user want to play games?
<diddledan> I don't get that snobbishness
<davmor2> diddledan: I think steams plan is to work on one AAA get it 100% near as damn it then release that one AAA then move onto the next
<daftykins> diddledan: i mean something with onboard graphics, nothing to do with it being a mac
<shauno> usually the assumption is that if they have to specify video requirements, intel integrated isn't going to cut it.  if integrated was sufficient, they could just say "any mac since 200x"
<diddledan> it's crazy that these mbp-retinas only came with intel gfx
<shauno> one of many reasons I don't want one :)
<diddledan> what?! a mac-female-prostitute like you, not want an mbp retina?!
<diddledan> what is the world coming to?!
<daftykins> all the retina ones are knowingly underpowered
<shauno> I'm not ready to give up the optical drive.  I really like having a sacrificial drivebay I can cram a second hdd into
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> the old mbp is gonna get retired soon, I'm betting
<shauno> lalalala I can't hear you!
<diddledan> shauno: you could always go back to running a hack
<daftykins> :S
<daftykins> ooh err boiler sat at 0 pressure for central heating ;/
<daftykins> but huzzah - my latest batch of Nespresso coffee machine pods arrived this morning \o
<daftykins> \o/
<daftykins> time to try their new strongest coffee
<shauno> hm; I wonder why dropbox says it's updating over 9000 (yarly) files
<daftykins> D:
<diddledan> shauno: you won the lottery
<diddledan> the file lottery
<daftykins> YAAAAY
<daftykins> your prize - another massive monkey!
<diddledan> pervert!
<daftykins> ...what
<diddledan> :-p
<diddledan> it's all fine until you realise that someone has to "be on the receiving end of a massive monkey"
<daftykins> i think i shall run my small Linux VMs off the new SSD when it arrives, as new OS drive for my server
<daftykins> sure but as he already has one, shauno will be able to further populate his sofa with them
<diddledan> I don't want to know about shaun's massive monkey - besides it's not the size, it's what you do with it that counts
<daftykins> fun and games aside, your convo stays in the gutter way too much :(
<diddledan> lol
<shauno> yeah, I don't think I need another giant monkey.  I noticed they have pandas too though
<diddledan> what can I say, I'm sick and twisted
<diddledan> shauno: awesome
<diddledan> shauno: buy the whole zoo!
<daftykins> shauno: i thought you could get a second one then make girl clothes for it
<diddledan> oh dear, now you got my mind working along the lines of "a pair of girl monkeys"
<daftykins> no one's a boy still naturally
<daftykins> then they sit on shauno's sofa as a couple!
<diddledan> see it's not my fault everyone just sets me up
<phillipshum> how come it defaults to being a boy monkey?
<diddledan> the world is sick and twisted, I just notice it more than everyone else
<shauno> this one's a boy monkey.  it's called martin, after an incident with one of the sales guys.
<phillipshum> did the incident involve bananas?
<diddledan> phillipshum: because we live in a society that historically has males as the superior being
<diddledan> which I cna't really argue about
<phillipshum> nor can I ;)
<diddledan> you know, when you're right you're right :-p
<shauno> martin (swedish sales guy) sent an email to far too many people proclaiming the monkey to be our employee of the month.  so the monkey found a name.
<shauno> all in all, getting a giant monkey delivered to the office made for a rather strange day
<daftykins> XD
<daftykins> any funny looks?
<mungbean> this is such a badly written story, i couldn't make sense of it http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-24347798
<mungbean> worse than an orlowksi el reg article
<diddledan> northern germany is in hamburg?
<mungbean> maybe written by a bot
<gordonjcp> mungbean: try writing in German for the German version of the BBC site
<mungbean> its not just the grammar, but information is all jumbled and confusing
<diddledan> the last paragraph doesn't make sense at all
<mungbean> also, "This was when I was in my 20s and she probably did not tell me anything at this point because she wanted to protect me - she thought it would be better if I did not know about my real past, about the truth, about my family, about my grandfather."
<diddledan> "she" is talking about her family and then suddenly the last paragraph saays "it is a story that is very unique and very unusual"
<daftykins> the reg's writing has definitely gotten worse
<diddledan> ".. it is a story that has a deeper meaning" <-- she wouldn't say that about her own story
<daftykins> their GTA V review doesn't even get the 3 main characters names right
<shauno> I gave up reading el reg years ago.  probably even before I gave up on slashdot
<diddledan> shauno: slashdot is just evil
<mungbean> yeah, i only read if somebody gives me a link
<diddledan> shauno: it isn't news, it's comments
<mungbean> slashdot is just an autistic stand-off
<daftykins> the reg's vocabulary amuses me
<diddledan> an article is linked saying "OMGZORS END OF THE WORLD IS TOMORROW". the actual article says "nobody has ever predicted the end of the world, and we aren't going to. if you read this article and assume the end of the world is neigh then you're a retard"
<mungbean> is the inquirer realted to the reg?
<mungbean> and how do they make money?
<mungbean> apart from the advertorials
<daftykins> probably the incessant ads that invade even the RSS feeds =/
<daftykins> i'd have thought they could've been related at some point, i used to read theinq but then switched
<mungbean> if it's got a red top i don't read it.seems to work so far
<daftykins> BBC tech reporting is too dire to even consider
<daftykins> i'm fine with the reg, i don't understand the whole colour system :D
<shauno> mungbean: that's pretty much how I explain british press to people :/
<diddledan> but but, red indicates the veracity of their reporting
<shauno> if it's printed on paper, it's bad.  if it has a red banner, it's worse.
<mungbean> red indicates the use of bold and hyperbole
<TheOpenSourcerer> Ahh: http://line-mode.cern.ch/www/hypertext/WWW/TheProject.html
<diddledan> the sun is obviously the most accurate paper!
<diddledan> anything with "daily" means it's got a lot of editorial and very little actual substance
<diddledan> e.g. daily mail
<mungbean> i've given up on the news
<mungbean> a glance at bbc website doesn't even tell me that much, and i'm ok with that
<mungbean> new hobbit trailer
<mungbean> thats all i need to know
<shauno> not sure I even need that much.  I know I'm going to see it, I have a vague idea of the plot .. all a trailer can do is give stuff away
<mungbean> yeah i'm sure my excited wife will tell me every day until christmas
<mungbean> i took a packed lunch last time i went. which was the only film i've seen @ cniema in 2 yrs
<TheOpenSourcerer> Ouch: http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2013/10/lavabit-defied-order-for-snowdens-login-info-then-govt-asked-for-sites-ssl-key/
<diddledan> isn't cneima the god that the bad guys in indiejones and the temple of doom were sacrificing people to apease?
<diddledan> TheOpenSourcerer: yeah I saw that
<shauno> pretty impressive the lengths he went to rather than cave
<diddledan> indeed, I'm glad he retained his integrity
<TheOpenSourcerer> Yeah - that's quite impressive.
<diddledan> shows there are some good people left in the world
<TheOpenSourcerer> Bet he was under some serious pressure to bend over
<shauno> providing the ssl key as 4pf text printed on paper was giggle-worthy though.  like paying a fine in pennies
<daftykins> the shop down the road from me has 'Christmas tins' of sweets labelled already =|
 * TheOpenSourcerer paid a Â£75 fine in 2p pieces once ;-)
<diddledan> TheOpenSourcerer: nice
<shauno> it shouldn't actually be a big deal.  just weigh them
<diddledan> afaict the lavabit dude would have been subjected to $10,000 in fines for the two days between the contempt of court ruling and when he actually shut the service
<TheOpenSourcerer> It was then. The magistrates' court didn't have scales
<popey> should have faxed the thing at 4pt to further blur it
<daftykins> XD
<mungbean> on that thermal paper that fades. dixons sell you a fridge and then in 1 yr the receipt is blank
<diddledan> popey: alternatively fax it at 248pt
<mungbean> write it on a 28ft wide cheque
<mungbean> don't put a stamp on it
<shauno> reminds me, I found out recently, which makes perfect sense but never crossed my mind - apparently the reason the 2p coin is so large, is because it weighs exactly twice a 1p coin.  so weighing a mixed bag of 1p & 2p works fine
<mungbean> oh cool
<mungbean> but largely obsolete now
<daftykins> kinda wish they'd eradicate the coppers
<mungbean> yeah, stupid police
<daftykins> force all prices to be 5 or 10p divisible
<daftykins> haha
<diddledan> shauno: I believe the same works for 5 and 10p
<mungbean> i would agree that 1/2p suck
<diddledan> shauno: and 1 and 2Â£
<TheOpenSourcerer> Bring back farthings and groats
<davmor2> daftykins: but If you get rid of the copper who enforces the law?
<daftykins> davmor2: too slow :(
<diddledan> I prefer sheep to groats
<mungbean> john o groats?
<shauno> diddledan: hah, so it does.  clever
<daftykins> i like English notes, but you guys should totally have a Â£1 note like ours
<davmor2> I'm catching up on scrollback :P
<daftykins> you get to feel rich thumbing through a big stash of 1's in your wallet
<TheOpenSourcerer> 2s 6d
<shauno> I prefer 1+2 coins.  it just makes more sense in my head when they at least have the same denominations as the euro
<daftykins> nooo let the past be the past
<daftykins> i enjoyed my Irish friend moving for a new job in England, she said she can't get used to the money :D
<popey> notes _are_ the past â»
<popey> Â£1 are anyway
<popey> I hate going to the US and getting a handful of 1's
<daftykins> haha
<daftykins> US money is terrible, can't pick them out in your wallet easy since they're all green =|
<TheOpenSourcerer> I'm amazed the yanks still have a $1 bill
<shauno> the only thing I do notice is that because the sterling is worth more; I seem to end up witha  pocket full of shrapnel that adds up to a lot more than it feels like
<TheOpenSourcerer> All same size
<TheOpenSourcerer> All same colour
<daftykins> yip
<TheOpenSourcerer> useless for accessibility
<daftykins> i think the 5s have a little red 5 in a corner, but yeah still pretty tough to distinguish
<shauno> apparently blind people use a system of folding them to keep track of which bill is which.  I have no idea how they handle new bills though
<daftykins> interesting
<shauno> ah, there we go .. I'm not crazy - http://www.afb.org/section.aspx?DocumentID=2232
<shauno> they don't mention how you're supposed to tell one from another before you fold them either
 * mungbean is installing cloudstack
<mungbean> far more impressed already than openstack
<mungbean> by a factor of 10 squillion
<daftykins> shauno: meanwhile you get cleaned out sat sorting through your money trying to pay for something ;/
<TheOpenSourcerer> NSFW! But blimey: http://www.theguardian.com/music/2013/oct/03/sinead-o-connor-open-letter-miley-cyrus
<mungbean> how is kvm configured on a machine with 1 network interface?
<jpds> mungbean: As it always is?
<jpds> mungbean: And how can Cloudstack impress you more than OpenStack?
<mungbean> i wanna host kvm guests on my laptop, but the bridging don't seem to be working...will look for other docs
<jpds> mungbean: You do have libvirt installed?
<mungbean> yes
<mungbean> i'm at the bridging stage
<jpds> libvirt is suppose to autoconfigure an interface on Ubuntu (virbr0).
<mungbean> centos
<jpds> Ah, your problem then. ;-)
<Myrtti> it defaults to natted afaik
<Myrtti> bridging is a bit of a pickle to figure out
<daftykins> jpds: bit rude
<jpds> daftykins: Channel name.
<daftykins> yeah, doesn't permit rudeness though
<Myrtti> I think you've got no hope if you plan to do anything though wifi
<Myrtti> well, you can get stuff with the nat, but anything beyond that might be a bit of a hassle
<popey> daftykins: pfft, jpds doesn't know how to be rude
<daftykins> seems he's working on it :D
<mungbean> i was following the cloudstack instructions but maybe i don't need to as virbr0 seems to exist with a 192.168.122.1 i/face
<jpds> mungbean: So you're set.
<mungbean> not sure where it configured that bridge
<mungbean> not in /etc/sysconfig/.....blah
<shauno> I still haven't even looked at cloudstack.  I gave up on openstack though
<diddledan> daftykins: my bridge interface is configured thusly with kvm: http://paste.ubuntu.com/6187974/
<jpds> mungbean: /etc/libvirt/qemu/networks/
<daftykins> diddledan: wrong person :(
<mungbean> thats v helpful jpds thanks :D
<jpds> shauno: Think Java vs. Python.
<mungbean> unhelpful of libvirt however
<jpds> mungbean: Not really, you're just discovering something new. ;-)
<mungbean> standards are good though
<diddledan> oops
<diddledan> you're both the same colour so I got the nicks confused :-p
<diddledan> mungbean: my bridge interface is configured thusly with kvm: http://paste.ubuntu.com/6187974/
<diddledan> use virsh net-* commands
<diddledan> oh, of course, cloudstack will probably make virsh not work
<jpds> mungbean: Still curious to know how cloudstack impresses you over openstack. :)
<popey> Take it to the bridge!
<mungbean> the documentation is straightforward and the install and setup is slick
<popey> i configured my bridge by just editing /etc/network/interfaces
<jpds> Because as far as I know, if you use cloudstack your machines have to be *exactly* the same.
<mungbean> jpds: yes, not a problemo
<popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/6187991/ \o/
<mungbean> my vmware servers are identical too
<mungbean> and my kvm servers would be
<jpds> mungbean: Ah, OK, I just use MAAS+juju to install openstack and I can have it up and running in about an hour.
<diddledan> JUJUJITSU!
<jpds> diddledan: Is dead.
<shauno> from what I can tell, that's the only sane way to do it.  trying to install by following the documentation will have you in tears
<diddledan> I don't have enough physical machines (1) to play with maas
<jpds> diddledan: I can do it all on VMs.
<diddledan> how do you run openstack in a series of VMs?
<daftykins> ah-har, Windows 7 requires two manual registry entries to act as a file server Â¬_Â¬ good times
<jpds> diddledan: Quite possible to do.
<diddledan> really?
<jpds> diddledan: That's my test environment.
<diddledan> how do you hardware virtualise in a virtualised environment (unless you have vmware)?
<jpds> diddledan: Nested KVM?
<jpds> diddledan: LXC within KVM?
<diddledan> jpds: does that actually work?
<shauno> I believe kvm can do that too now.  it's just virtualbox who are claiming it's not possible and not useful
<jpds> diddledan: I don't know the details, I just know that it works.
<diddledan> xen have a few problems but they're working on it - I tried doing nested virtualisation with kvm running windows hyper-v but that failed
<daftykins> eww Hyper-V
<jpds> diddledan: But yes, you can run all of openstack under one machine.
<daftykins> my server's OS disk dying meant i was able to put a newer vmware on :D
<daftykins> this pleases me
<shauno> curious, if you deploy with maas, does it cause any problems if you take maas away?
<jpds> shauno: yes.
<jpds> shauno: It's doing your DHCP/DNS/power management.
<shauno> hm.  still looking for a reasonable way to put openstack on a single machine.  so far the options seem to be either devstack, or go back to 12.04 because all the docs since are lies
<daftykins> hahaha
<diddledan> the cake is a lie
<jpds> shauno: Or using MAAS+juju.
<shauno> I'm not sure I can do maas if I have to keep the controller around.  unless it was deploying to containers on itself
<diddledan> chicken, meet egg.
<jpds> shauno: Well, you need something to manage the environment somehow.
<daftykins> intel launches Galileo, an Arduino compatible dev. board 0o
<jpds> shauno: And you can always put MAAS on a VM.
<shauno> I don't get why it's near-impossible to just install the openstack packages on a machine
<jpds> http://paste.ubuntu.com/6188042/
<jpds> Works for me.
<jpds> (as a test-bed, that is).
<diddledan> jpds: I think what shaun wants is to be able to install using ubuntu-server's MAAS controller installation routine, and use that MAAS to set up openstack on the same machine as MAAS controller
<diddledan> so an easy spin-up from blank machine to mass+openstack
<diddledan> maas*
<jpds> diddledan: Sounds like a nasty file-conflict-pit scenario.
<diddledan> not, as it appears you've done, spin up a server, install kvm, install random other junk, set up libvirt, install a maas node, install several maas nodes and run juju in the virtual machines
<shauno> ideally, I'd like it to be installable without going 3 levels deep in buzzword soup
<diddledan> shauno: I'm with you on that
<jpds> diddledan: Oh, I thought you were saying that everything should be on one machine.
<jpds> OpenStack+MAAS+juju - done. :)
<diddledan> jpds: I am
<jpds> diddledan: One machine, as in one virtual machine.
<jpds> ?
<diddledan> jpds: no, maas server, configures itself via maas magic to run openstack in several virtual machines
<jpds> Ah, OK, that's what I have.
<diddledan> jpds: no, your maas server isn't on bare metal
<jpds> diddledan: Which is a good thing, as it doesn't do much other than DHCP/DNS once everything is set up. ;)
<diddledan> jpds: take a blank machine. install maas server. use maas to install virtual machines running openstack
<diddledan> jpds: it's NOT a good thing because you need to configure the server which runs the virtual environment the maas server sits within
<diddledan> it's not "out of the box" in any way shape or form
<jpds> Disagree.
<jpds> You need to configure MAAS anyway.
<shauno> that's what I don't get - why?
<diddledan> you shouldn't have to use one method to set up the bare metal and maas and then an entirely different method to set up openstack
<shauno> for my scenario, I want to put openstack on a single, physical host. I'm less than sold on why it should take maas & juju to get that far
<diddledan> we want a fire and forget way to install onto a bare metal single machine an openstack
<jpds> shauno: Because you need to tell MAAS about your IPs/DNS settings?
<shauno> why does maas come into it at all?
<jpds> shauno: Because juju needs a provisioner to manage the environment?
<diddledan> and therein lies the problem - juju shouldn't be required to set up a single-host openstack
<shauno> I feel like I'm stuck in an "but I don't like spam" gag :)
<jpds> diddledan: Then you have no [sane] way to automagically manage the environment. :)
<shauno> to turn a fresh machine into an openstack node on redhat, I can yum install openstack-packstack && packstack --allinone
<mgdm> it's quite nifty, that
<diddledan> jpds: bingo
<mgdm> though the initial release of packstack on Fedora 19 was broken in countless comedy ways
<mgdm> like 'failing to account for mysql being replaced by mariadb' level of comedy
<shauno> that's what I'm trying to find the ubuntu equivalent of.  and throwing up more machines just to abstract "this machine" into a managed environment seems like several layers of overkill
<diddledan> "sing it sista"
<shauno> completely ignoring the "how do I turn --allinone into a small cluster when I finally confuse someone into giving me a budget" for now ;)
<diddledan> lol @ confuse
<mgdm> to build an OpenStack cluster from scratch, you must first invent the universe
<diddledan> in other news, hetzner are awesomely priced
<diddledan> mgdm: that's the problem.. why can't we build off the universe we have?
<diddledan> why a whole new universe?!
<diddledan> entirely overkill for a virtual machine or two
<^Snake> I'm looking for some information, if anyone would like to share their personal opinion. I'm looking to dual-boot my laptop, Vista Home Premium & Ubuntu 12.04
<diddledan> ...
<^Snake> Any preference over what Format to have for the Ubuntu partition ?
<daftykins> ugh Vista
<daftykins> ext4
<diddledan> ^Snake: use ext4 un;ess you really want btrfs for reasons unknown
<^Snake> what is btrfs, not heard of that 1 before?
<diddledan> btrfs is still technically "unstable"
<popey> use ext4
<^Snake> ok, thanks
<diddledan> but it's where everything will eventually head when it becomes generally ready
<diddledan> if you don't really care then use ext4
<^Snake> It's a 1TB HDD, so I was thinking of 70Gb for Vista, 20Gb or so for Ubuntu, ??? for the Swap File, & then the rest for personal files partition, shared across Vista & Ubuntu
<popey> what format will that be?
<^Snake> Is there any specific size I should set the Swap File Partition ?
<popey> (the shared bit)
<popey> is it a laptop or desktop
<popey> ?
<popey> ah, laptop you said
<^Snake> NTFS for personal files, so Ubuntu & Vista can access it
<popey> right.
<^Snake> Laptop, yeah
<popey> if you plan on hibernating then swap = ram size
<popey> if not then "some swap"
<popey> how much RAM?
<^Snake> System has 2x1Gb Cards
<popey> so some swap, 1GB would probably be okay
<^Snake> ok
<popey> (given you have plenty of space)
<^Snake> I use alot of programs on Vista, so not sure how much space the similar would take on Ubuntu, all personal files as said will be on a seperate partition, so would 20Gb be sufficient for Ubuntu, or should I allocate more?
<daftykins> 20GB would be good
<popey> 20GB is a good start
<daftykins> any media you may keep is what will munch through space
<^Snake> ok, thanks, gonna partition up teh hard drive soon, tks for the info
<mungbean> jpds: only hosts in a "cluster" in cloudstack need have the same hardware
<jpds> mungbean: As supposed to openstack' "I'll take anything that can do some form of virt". :)
<mungbean> i don't see an issue with it
<diddledan> one problem you'll face with requiring identical hosts is the inability to run a rolling upgrade
<Myrtti> I haz a phone charger!
<Myrtti> wheee
<Myrtti> (I don't yet have a phone to charge with it)
<Myrtti> time to take it apart!
<daftykins> D:
<daftykins> why-for?
<Myrtti> https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc1/575670_10151891152244111_1124883227_n.jpg not a big fan of yellow
<daftykins> is that the nokia Qi charger thingy?
<Myrtti> yup
<Myrtti> 35â¬ used :-D
<Myrtti> I can knit something to cover the yellow so I don't really care what colour it is
<daftykins> ah-har
<daftykins> i haven't really used the Qi charger i got for my Nexus 4, i might as well sell it
<Myrtti> the retail price of those is mindnumbing
<daftykins> Nexus 4s?
<daftykins> they are impressively cheap now
<Myrtti> no, the Nokia Fatboy http://www.mobilefun.co.uk/nokia-lumia-820-920-wireless-charging-fatboy-pillow-dt-901rd-red-p37246.htm
<daftykins> the thing i picked up was Â£25
<Myrtti> well, Nexus 4 is as mentioned here in the past days, 400â¬ for 8GB
<Myrtti> so yes, that as well
<daftykins> did you not get the price drop as per the UK?
<directhex> don't use a nokia charger for nexus 4
<Myrtti> there is no Google Play with Devices herer
<Myrtti> -r
<daftykins> aww
<daftykins> nah, nor for me on Guernsey
<daftykins> i had to proxy via England to order it and pay the VAT =|
<daftykins> Google refused to refund me
<daftykins> oh and ship it via a proxy courier
<daftykins> :>
<daftykins> anyone ever had a battery get stuck in an APC UPS?
<daftykins> it is muchly non-conducive to getting things done
<gordonjcp> drill a hole in it and devise some sort of puller?
<gordonjcp> slide hammer maybe?
<Myrtti> if it were someone else suggesting that, I'd probably be scared shirtless
<daftykins> i'd be loathe to attempt drilling beside a lead acid battery
<gordonjcp> I meant drill the battery ;-)
<gordonjcp> it's fine just hose it all down with water and baking soda
<daftykins> O_O
<daftykins> it's quite an old unit now
<daftykins> second APC BR800I at a clients to die
<shauno> that's not unusual at all.  there's several ways of cells to die that cause them to swell  (they prefer swelling over leaking)
<daftykins> yip
<daftykins> i suspected as much
<daftykins> i got the connector out then started pushing and what not
<daftykins> tugging away
<diddledan> shauno: remember my blackbook? the battery in that swelled like a baboon's bum
<daftykins> turned the unit upside down - nope!
<shauno> diddledan: that's by design too :p
<diddledan> I think I'd be inclined to replace the apc unit in it's entirety
<daftykins> yeah, that'd be the short route
<diddledan> if shauno were a salesperson he'd jump at the chance to sell us an overly specced unit
<daftykins> then there will be two to go for recycling
<shauno> you're still left with a scary battery to dispose of though :/  they have a trade-in program to part-exchange an old one for a new one, but you won't find a courier happy to take the old one like that
<diddledan> shauno: WEEE
<daftykins> shauno: when i called in the guy was in the US and couldn't confirm whether a courier even operates in Guernsey
<daftykins> he actively avoided the question
<diddledan> take it to the council tip
<diddledan> pretend it's non-commercial
<daftykins> it isn't, it's domestic
<daftykins> but yeah his other guy will take the electronics to the local recycling
<popey> diddledan: did you ever sell your blackbook?
<diddledan> popey: yeah, it went on ebay about a month ago
<diddledan> the recipient said they were very happy with it
<popey> yay
<daftykins> http://www.ebuyer.com/238120-apc-back-ups-pro-900-ups-ac-230-v-540-watt-900-va-br900gi
<daftykins> i've put a couple of those in lately
<diddledan> OT: http://i2.wp.com/www.geeksaresexy.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/internet-dating-1.png?w=600
<diddledan> daftykins: that looks nice
<daftykins> they're pretty big, ~380mm deep
<diddledan> I've got a Smart-UPS 750 here
<daftykins> :>
<Laney> bah
<daftykins> my BR800 is still going (same one as the dead two up at this place i've been referrin to)
<Laney> lastpass autofill broke in chromium
 * daftykins doesn't understand password managers
<diddledan> one of these jobbies: http://www.ebuyer.com/226815-apc-smart-ups-750-lcd-ups-ac-230-v-500-watt-750-va-smt750i
<daftykins> wasn't there a big flaw in lastpass published?
<diddledan> daftykins: was there?
<shauno> our ups is 7 racks wide :/ 380mm is 'cute'
<Laney> they had some in 2011
<diddledan> I know they got me to change my password a while back (2 years ago?)
<diddledan> that'ld be the same timeline that Laney is talking about
<daftykins> hmm can't remember
<daftykins> guy in another channel is a security guy
<daftykins> diddledan: heh see the second comment on that product?
<daftykins> "power sockets loose, inserted pieces of card to make function" >_<
<diddledan> daftykins: I'm betting he bought the wrong cables - probably bought actual kettle leads instead of IEC801(? is that the right number?)
<daftykins> nope
<daftykins> diddledan: nah it was a she, maybe the order is randomised
<daftykins> ah well
<diddledan> nope, IEC801 is ESD
<mgdm> doof doof doof doof
<diddledan> daftykins: yeah, I think we're reading the same comment - the power sockets or rather the plugs in them flopped to the side and lost connectivity - wrong plug basically
 * mgdm is listening to Chemical Brothers
<daftykins> Walt and Jesse's fave
<mgdm> who?
<daftykins> Breaking Bad characters
<mgdm> Oh, I never watched that
<mungbean> never seen breaking dad or 24
<mungbean> or lost
<mgdm> and now, thanks to someone at lunch the other day who blew the ending, I don't need to
<diddledan> breaking bad finished recently - I never saw it from start to end
<bigcalm> Damn it. I just Lost the Game
<daftykins> mgdm: argh, i stayed offline 'til i'd seen the finale XD
<mungbean> game of thrones
<mungbean> i don't watch yank telly in gerenal
<daftykins> nothing wrong with it!
<daftykins> some...
<diddledan> I like the modern teenager take on game of thrones: game of phones
<mungbean> most US telly is designed to be good in first series and milk it all the way to 12 series
<diddledan> u fink i iz mesin w u?
<diddledan> argh
<diddledan> now I need some brain and eye bleach
<shauno> anyone know the name of the type of pump that has a reed in a wheel?  I seem to fail at google when I can't remember the term I want to search for
<diddledan> shauno: the reeded wheel pump?
<diddledan> erm.. the pumpy reed wheel?
<shauno> diddledan: sometimes it's perfectly okay not to answer ;)
<diddledan> the wheely reed pump?
<bigcalm> Ha
<diddledan> shauno: you'd miss me if I didn't talk
<daftykins> ^ citation needed
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> so, I've managed a whole day of work with very little to show for it
<daftykins> i've also achieved very little
<diddledan> my colleagues at the office haven't fared much better I think. their net has been somewhat blinky
<daftykins> :S
<daftykins> oh you worked from home today?
<diddledan> yup
<popey> \o/ WFH!
<bigcalm> \o/ CATS!
<^Snake> a quick question, I partitioned up 70Gb (71680) for Vista, while that's installing, been reading up on Ubuntu, a few sites recommended setting /home as a seperate partition, do I need to create a seperate partition for that, or can I use a folder on the shared data partition for Vista for that?
<directhex> ^Snake, i'd definitely not try to use a folder on a windows partition for /home
<directhex> ^Snake, you can't properly represent unix permissions on an ntfs partition, so you'll have Problems
<daftykins> ^indeed
<popey> you could have a separate home partition, but there's few benefits
<daftykins> being able to reinstall is the greatest and that's a huuuuuge benefit!
<^Snake> not a windows partition exactly, partitions -> 70Gb for Vista, 20Gb for Ubuntu, 2Gb for Swap File, the rest of 1Tb HDD for personal files, shared with Ubuntu & Vista
<daftykins> er, reinstall and keep data i mean
<popey> you don't need /home separate for that
<popey> haven't needed to for years now
<^Snake> as I'm saving personal files for the most part to the last partition (Vista & Ubuntu can access it), where would I set /Home to go? & what sort of things would normally be in /Home ???
<daftykins> ^Snake: yeah so if it's going to be NTFS, that personal data drive, don't try and put /home on it
<diddledan> the biggest 2 advantages of separate home partition - 1) if you fill it up your programs don't stop because the /tmp folder can't be written to. 2) you can share the /home between two or more OSes
<daftykins>  /home would contain your data (e.g. My Pics,Video, Music, etc) and all software program configurations
<^Snake> ok
<Myrtti> I tried putting /home on NTFS once for fun
<^Snake> I thought you can only have a max of 4 partitions ?
<Myrtti> or was it VFAT, can't remember
<gordonjcp> ^Snake: logical partitions
<^Snake> Vista, Ubuntu, Swap, Data (shared)
<gordonjcp> Myrtti: NTFS might actually work
<diddledan> home on windows+cifs is evil
<Myrtti> gordonjcp: this was pre NTFS-3G
<diddledan> you get all sorts of errors from various stuff
<daftykins> Myrtti: did you get a new drive for your laptop in the end?
<^Snake> ok, didn't think of that
<Myrtti> daftykins: it wasn't far off
<directhex> the 4 partition limit only applies to bootcamp'd macs
<gordonjcp> ffs, a tiny Chinese woman has just walked into my door mirror and hit herself in the head
<bigcalm> That is tiny
<gordonjcp> bigcalm: yes
<daftykins> O_O
<bigcalm> Unless you drive a monster truck
<gordonjcp> nope, just a Dispatch van
<daftykins> was she trying to get close enough to key the bodywork? ;/
<gordonjcp> no idea
<diddledan> directhex: I want whatever you're smoking
<gordonjcp> I think she just wasn't looking where she was going
<directhex> diddledan, ?
<diddledan> 4 partition limit on macs?
<diddledan> they use GPT
<directhex> diddledan, yes, they do. but bootcamp doesn't officially support booting windows over UEFI, it uses a CSM to boot via BIOS emulation
<directhex> and windows for BIOS can't boot from GPT
<directhex> so bootcamp makes a shadow MBR partition table copy on the disk, which represents the same partition offsets as the underlying GPT table
<gordonjcp> there is a scary amount of ridiculous hipsters walking around town
<gordonjcp> (says the guy sitting in a van with a coffee from an indy coffee shop and a macbook on 3g)
<directhex> however, it's not possible to represent logical partitions in this manner, the offsets don't line up. so only primary partitions can be represented
<directhex> as such, the limit of 4 primary partitions applies to bootcamp'd macs
<directhex> QED, wench!
<daftykins> XD
<daftykins> directhex: well put sir, well put
<diddledan> you only need windows within the first four partitions, the rest of the disk can be organised however you want
<directhex> windows will only see the MBR table, not the GPT table
<directhex> any partitions which can't be represented in the shadow MBR table will not exist to windows
<diddledan> windows 7 supports gpt
<directhex> yes, it does, for non-boot drives, or boot drives when using the 64-bit version with uefi
<directhex> this also raises the issue of macs using 32-bit uefi in some cases, of course
<directhex> but that's a distinct issue
<directhex> bootcamp, the apple product, supports only bios-booted windows
<directhex> and bios-booted windows only supports mbr for the boot drive
<^Snake> My laptop is 32-bit, a Samsung from 2008
<diddledan> and bootcamp doesn't support linux at all so the chances of hitting an issue with 4 partition limit is minimal
<daftykins> ^Snake: surely 64-bit capable, what's the processor?
<daftykins> or is it a netbook :<
<^Snake> Hang-on, cooking food here.
<daftykins> at half 5 D:
<^Snake> it's a "Samsung R60plus"
<directhex> core 1 duo
<directhex> blimey
<daftykins> T2310?
<diddledan> T2310? wow they really ramped up production of terminators
<daftykins> sigh.
<daftykins> i've never used an IRC client's ignore feature, but diddledan you make me feel like change
<directhex>    Ignore list is empty.
<directhex> wow, a clean slate
<directhex> that wasn't empty in the old quakenet days
<directhex> WHEN I WERE A LAD
<daftykins> ;)
<daftykins> glad we escaped there.
<mgdm> my only ignores are people with flaky connections, and then I ignore joins/parts/quits
<popey> 41 ignores here
<daftykins> :O
<popey> mostly joins/parts/quits in various channels
<Laney> I have about 40 of those
<Laney> then 03/10 17:33:19   44 *: JOINS PARTS QUITS KICKS NICKS
<Laney> one day I gave up on that
<Laney> didn't bother to remove the old ones
<popey> heh
 * davmor2 just set it globally on xchat
<^Snake> with regard to my system, is the 4 partitions a hardware or Windows OS limitation?
<^Snake> as in theory, Vista will only have access to 2, the Boot/Operating system partition & the Personal Drive partition
<diddledan> ^Snake: it's a limitation of MBR
<^Snake> so basically, hardware
<daftykins> no
<^Snake> ?
<daftykins> MBR is a partition table, so it's software
<daftykins> it's very close to being old hat
<^Snake> Vista & Personal is going to be NTFS, Ubuntu, Swap File, /Home ??? are possible partitions, that makes 5 in total
<^Snake> Ubuntu should be able to see all, but Windows should only see 2
<daftykins> only the C: Vista needs to be a primary one
<daftykins> the rest can be logical
<popey> Heh. Sam has discovered that the neighbours kids have the same walkie talkie we do
<popey> So he's in our house talking to them in their house
<popey> pre-cursor to mobile phone
<directhex> ^Snake, you don't need to worry about a 4 partition limit for your samsung
<Laney> SNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAKEEEEEEEEEEEEE
<daftykins> :D
<popey> Hm. I feel the urge to play MGS
<Laney> me too :(
<daftykins> Laney: we're communicating with a figure hidden in a cardboard box right now
<directhex> i never liked MGS
<daftykins> directhex: :( #1 was great
<popey> I _really_ enjoyed it
<davmor2> popey: MSG2
<daftykins> i love stealth games
<popey> burned a weekend or two playing it
<^Snake> ok, haven't dealt with this in years, will have to do more reading (Dyslexic, & don't remember the usuage)
<diddledan> MGS?
<popey> oh, maybe the second one
<daftykins> metal gear solid
<diddledan> aah
<popey> I love the hidey type games
<popey> hoping Volume will be decent
<Laney> started a second playthrough of hitman the other day
<Laney> hard suit only is hard
<daftykins> i always sucked hard at the Hitman games
<popey> http://www.mikebithellgames.com/volume/
<directhex> Laney, was trying for suit only in hitman absolution, but i can't do one of them missions suit only
<TheOpenSourcerer> Interesting: http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2013/10/intel-powers-an-arduino-for-the-first-time-with-new-galileo-board/ ~$60
<TheOpenSourcerer> x86 comes with Linux
<Laney> directhex: what difficulty?
<directhex> Laney, don't remember. easy!
<Laney> ah
<Laney> might try it on an easier one
<Laney> hard is a bit much for me right now
<popey> Heh, Sam comes in from School and powers up the xbox to play Star Wars
<Laney> don't really have the patience
<directhex> um... death factory, iirc, is the level
<directhex> only one i had no hope on suit only
<bigcalm> popey: did you get a hello in-between these events?
<Laney> i really hate being spotted too
<popey> i get "can I play xbox"
<Laney> so restarting every time that happens means that levels take a long time
<popey> he has his own chair in front of the telly
<popey> poor lad, it's only a 15" telly, need a bigger/better one really
<bigcalm> popey: new glasses?
<popey> he has new glasses
<popey> he used to be right pressed up against the telly
<bigcalm> Awww
<popey> tongue out
<bigcalm> o.O
<popey> tensing up
<davmor2> popey: come on be fair you get can I play minecraft more I bet ;)
<popey> sitting very far forward on his chair
<popey> nah, he's more into xbox at the moment
<popey> he's played minecraft for 2 years â»
<popey> xbox is new to him
<daftykins> my friend has offered to lend me his newer model xbox slim, vs. my elite
<daftykins> tempting but hrmm
<Azelphur> Is there anything substancially more awesome than the pebble on the horizon?
<popey> damnit, now I'm looking at tellys
<daftykins> pebble? 0o
<bigcalm> The watch?
<bigcalm> How about the samsung one?
<popey> thats tied to their phones
<popey> no thank you
<directhex> a watch that needs charging daily. oh boy!
<popey> yeah
<popey> I'm out.
<daftykins> you lost me at 'watch' :>
<popey> kinda getting sick of the star wars music now
<daftykins> cross-post from another channel, wow these chinese killer hornets are big: http://qz.com/131374/the-body-count-is-now-42-in-the-attack-of-chinas-killer-hornets/
<daftykins> popey: haha noise making young-uns is high on my list of reasons for no kids
<popey> hmm, giffgaff sms still busted?
<popey> I can send in one direction but not back the other way
<popey> which is odd
<popey> given both numbers are on giffgaff
<daftykins> are their service center numbers identical?
<popey> dunno
<popey> i think this is an ubuntu thing
<daftykins> ah
<popey> davmor2: oi oi, wanna send a test text to me?
<popey> 07842716204
<popey> anyone can â»
<popey> or 07842718518
 * diddledan phones popey in the middle of the night :-p
<popey> knock yourself out, they're nowhere near my bed â»
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> dang
<diddledan> that's no fun :-D
<popey> indeed
<daftykins> i always hesitate to email people late at night who i know have smartphones
<daftykins> >_<
<jpds> popey: You don't sleep with your Ubuntu phone?
<diddledan> that's pretty much everyone these days, isn't it?
<popey> http://community.giffgaff.com/t5/Blog/Update-on-our-recent-outage/ba-p/10101611/page/13#comments
<popey> seems giffgaff issue
<daftykins> you'd be surprised
<daftykins> some of my friends are still trapped in the past
<popey> haha, suddenly the walkie talkie wakes up
<popey> "SAM! You coming outside!?"
<popey> xbox gets shutdown, and he's gone
<daftykins> good to know kids still favour the outdoors, somewhere in the world
<popey> yeah
<daftykins> says me sat indoors feet up with a laptop on my lap
<popey> its funny, only this summer did all the kids in the road start playing out together
<popey> heh
<daftykins> ^_^
<popey> there's 10 in this road
<popey> is nice to get peace at the weekend when they play out
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> i'd imagine those clos type housing spots are handy for that
<daftykins> there were some near me as a kid, but they were states (local gov) housing areas
<popey> we're in a dead end so mostly no cars come down
<popey> and when they do, the kids shout "CAR!" to look after the little ones
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> yeah
<Azelphur> popey: I just came up with the most hilarious data transfer method, ever.
<Azelphur> popey: have you played computercraft for minecraft yet?
<daftykins> Simpsons did it
<popey> no
<Azelphur> popey: basically it adds computers to minecraft, the computers can communicate (via a cable, or via limited range wireless)
<Azelphur> but I just figured out a way to get data across an unlimited range in the most amusing way ever xD
<Azelphur> you know how ender chests work?
<popey> yes
<popey> funnel stuff into one and out the other end?
<Azelphur> encode data into binary, break it up into 4 8 bit bytes, put a stack of items of that size into the ender chest, have the computer at the other end read the stack size
<Azelphur> XD
<popey> excellent
<Azelphur> I figure it'll do about 4 bytes/second, hahaha
<Azelphur> minecraft internet \o/
<popey> Minecranet
<Azelphur> hehe
<daftykins> IP over chest
<Azelphur> daftykins: that's totally what we should call it.
<daftykins> ^_^
<daftykins> i give it to you free, sir
<Azelphur> xD
<popey> haha
<popey> Brilliant
<popey> Youtube it. This time next year.. millionaire
<Azelphur> xD
<daftykins> Google will buy you
<davmor2> popey: did you get a text?
<davmor2> popey: I was at tea sorry :)
<JamesTait> dwatkins, did Myrtti share this with you? https://plus.google.com/+ThinkGeek/posts/LkPwXoLe7Rw
<popey> nope
<davmor2> popey: as in did some one text you?
<davmor2> popey: Rather than did you get a text that I sent :D
<ali1234> Azelphur: congratulations you have invented ethernet
<popey> nope
<Azelphur> ali1234: xD
<dwatkins> JamesTait: hehe
<davmor2> popey: sent
<JamesTait> dwatkins, happy Virus Appreciation Day. ;)
<davmor2> popey: did you get it yet?
<popey> no
<ali1234> Azelphur: can you hack computer craft so it starts up real virtual machines instead of the lua thing?
<Azelphur> ali1234: possibly, you can modify the standard LUA stuff
<davmor2> popey: let me try sending one to myself
<Azelphur> on the server side, not client
<dwatkins> JamesTait: apparently Germany is celebrating by having the day off
<davmor2> popey: http://ubuntuone.com/3TTyL727vstytqPexXVI35 I received mine so those 2 I sent to you should of come through
<davmor2> popey: those are the right numbers?
<popey> yeah
<davmor2> let me try again then
<popey> directhex: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=698Da1a2ScQ what the hell is this?
<popey> i suspect it's giffgaff at fault
<directhex> ?
<JamesTait> dwatkins, blimey!
<davmor2> popey: resent
<davmor2> dwatkins, JamesTait: That's not the truth at all, some hacker planted a virus that told them all it was a day off :)
<JamesTait> Mind hacks! :-O
<daftykins> rofl fake GTA V
<daftykins> weird
 * DJones feels out if the loop, what is GTA V
<daftykins> i'm going to go ahead and believe you're messing around there DJones :P
<DJones> daftykins: Nope
<daftykins> grand theft auto?
<DJones> I'm guessing either a movie or game, probably game as its being mentioned here
<daftykins> famous game series by Rockstar Games
<DJones> This should be in twitter, "famous game series" Do What.... :)
<DJones> I have never seen the game ever
<daftykins> i can't take you seriously :(
<DJones> Heh, In the last 10 years, the only game I've bought was minecraft
<DJones> Probably longer, last game before that was Deus Ex
<daftykins> a classic
<DJones> Last game before that I can remember playing with any interest was Choplifter on the Apple ][
<daftykins> ^_^
<MartijnVdS> DJones: would that make you very young, or very old? :)
<DJones> daftykins: From what I quickly read, GTA V involves runniong round like a headless chicken, nicking stuff & killing characters
<MartijnVdS> DJones: nah, it's not much like that
<MartijnVdS> there's actually a pretty good story
<DJones> MartijnVdS: From my point of view, very young :)
<MartijnVdS> it's like participating in a movie
<daftykins> DJones: it's a sandbox game so it is what you make it :)
<DJones> Yeah, but a movie called "Machetee" or a movie called "Titanic" :)
<davmor2> http://ubuntuone.com/5D9grpBAvutXdXlMCmGD6K hmm new look dark theme just by changing the background image nice
<popey> neat
<MartijnVdS> DJones: yes.
<DJones> Why does BBC website announce "What is bitcoin and how does it work" http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-24384897 And then not give an opportunity to respond, Oh, never mind....its BBC
<daftykins> because they know how bad their own tech reporting is
<DJones> Heh, and its even RCN
<MartijnVdS> popey: I read the first sentence of the podcast announcement wrong, and wondered why you'd make such a short (thirty second) podcast
<MartijnVdS> popey: "Not much news this week. Bye!"
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> "nothing happened"
<popey> NO NEWS.
<popey> GO AWAY.
<MartijnVdS> *intro music* NOTHING *outro music*
<MartijnVdS> "I'm trapped in a podcast factory, please send help"
<daftykins> XD
<popey> â»
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: is that like being trapped in a stock, aikin and waterman music factory, if so popey wouldn't want to leave there :D
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: who would? :)
 * daftykins doesn't know what that is
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZzQQgrqFZHc
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: writers of lots and lots of pop songs
<daftykins> ah-har, ty
<^Snake> Stock Atkin & Waterman, the FASTEST method for Soap Opera Actors to make it in the music industry, specially true in the late 80's & 90's
<MartijnVdS> jump to 20 minutes in that video ;)
<popey> davmor2: finally just getting your texts
<daftykins> super speedy!
#ubuntu-uk 2013-10-04
<AlanBell> morning
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<popey> Yes!
<brobostigon> morning hrh popey
<Gargoyle> Straw poll: ufw or iptables direct?
<popey> marmite!
<brobostigon> honey
<TheOpenSourcerer> hunny
<TheOpenSourcerer> morning everyone - still feel like death warmed up. Despite trying my best with curry and whiskey-based hot toddies last night...
<brobostigon> fiance
<brobostigon> morning TheOpenSourcerer
<brobostigon> :(
<directhex> TheOpenSourcerer, curry hot toddy - i like it!
 * Gargoyle has been away from the ubuntu-uk channel for far too long!
<TheOpenSourcerer> lol - hadn't actually thought of that. It might just work directhex
<Gargoyle> Glad to see the podcast is still going :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> replace lemon with tamarind
<czajkowski> popey: Laney eiither of ye see this kinda shut down image? https://twitter.com/czajkowski/status/385876035952476160
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<Laney> czajkowski: looks like the thing you get if you press the power button
<Laney> maybe
<Laney> don't want to test it incase it shuts my computer down
<popey> it is
<czajkowski> hmm
<czajkowski> have to do it that way when my little cog is MIS
<czajkowski> *MIA
<popey> ffs
<popey> Laney: is there a bug that it shuts down anyway, regardless of what you click!?
<popey> (yes, I did)
<czajkowski> :(
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Friday, and happy Smile Day! :-D
<bigcalm> Happy stuck on 3g because virginmedia has gone down Day
<JamesTait> bigcalm, don't forget to smile! ;)
<bigcalm> Meh :)
<JamesTait> bigcalm, happy Improve Your Office Day? ;)
<bigcalm> Heh
<bigcalm> I'm glad that I have a set-up that allows me to use 3g as a backup connection
<bigcalm> I'm also glad that I have the knowledge to be able to make that set-up happen
<bigcalm> Yay for being a tech geek :D
<bigcalm> There, another smile :P
<bigcalm> 157,693,845  692K/s   in 4m 27s
<Gargoyle> Where can I get an 11.04 server install iso? It seems to be missing from http://releases.ubuntu.com/ ?
<bigcalm> Mobile connections have improved a lot over time
<bigcalm> !support
<lubotu3> The official ubuntu support channel is #ubuntu. Also see http://ubuntu.com/support and http://ubuntuforums.org and http://askubuntu.com
<bigcalm> Humm
<bigcalm> Not what I wanted
<bigcalm> Gargoyle: 11.04 is EOL https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Releases
<bigcalm> !eol
<lubotu3> End-Of-Life is the time when security updates and support for an Ubuntu release stop, see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Releases for more information. Looking to upgrade from an EOL release? See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/EOLUpgrades
<Laney> popey: I tried lock and suspend and it didn't shut down
<popey> i clicked the x in the corner
<bigcalm> Gargoyle: why do you want to use 11.04?
<Gargoyle> nm, found itâ¦ couldn't see the woods for the trees! Deffo ready for the weekend.
<popey> Gargoyle: 12.04 is LTS
<popey> 12.04.3 in fact
<Gargoyle> bigcalm: Thanks for the link - Need to mirror a machine running 11.04 so I can test install / upgrade
<bigcalm> Fair enough
<czajkowski> popey: Laney you're welcome :)
<Laney> what for?
<Gargoyle> bigcalm: Might have to take back that thanks! I remember playing with Warty and now I feel OLD! :(
<Gargoyle> ;)
<bigcalm> Happy everybody feeling old day :D
<bigcalm> T - 21 days, 5 hours, 22 mins
<xnox> https://twitter.com/big_ben_clock
 * xnox facepalm
<rowinggolfer> morning. does ubuntu-one provide a web interface which shows "recent activity" similar to that of Dropbox? ie.. like this screenshot? http://static.rowinggolfer.org/images/dropbox_ip.png
<bigcalm> I just used up a month's worth of data
<bigcalm> Whoops
<czajkowski> rowinggolfer: have you looked at one.u.c ?
<rowinggolfer> czajkowski, I haven't
<rowinggolfer> the problem I am trying to solve is dynamic dns on my home server.
<AlanBell> it won't be there, it will be on https://login.ubuntu.com/
<AlanBell> Sites you last authenticated to
<rowinggolfer> it is a little flaky at times, and I wondered if I already had an alternative way of finding out remotely what my home's ip is.
<AlanBell> http://ipchicken.com/ does that
 * AlanBell likes chicken related web services
<directhex> ipgoat.com
<rowinggolfer> AlanBell, how does that help me find a *remote* ip ?
<directhex> which will baa at you
<AlanBell> ah, so you are not at home
<rowinggolfer> AlanBell, correct.
<rowinggolfer> I use the free dlinkddns service, but sometimes it fails to update.
<shauno> I use prey-project for that, but kinda hacked to bits to be a selfhosted webservice
<rowinggolfer> I picture myself abroad needing to connect and scratching my head to find my home ip. I'm consdering a script which mails me whenever it changes?
<rowinggolfer> but I think it has ubuntu-one installed (with no active account), so I wondered if that info was readily available should I set one up.
<popey> rowinggolfer: i use prey
<popey> its for alerting when your pc is stolen.. so you can get it back
<popey> however as a byproduct you can make it check in regularly with your own server
<popey> which I do
<popey> so in my webserver logs I have the public IP address of all my machines because they all check in every 10 mins
<Gargoyle> Is there a way to get apt on an 11.04 install working? I just get obsoleted messages.
<rowinggolfer> popey, thanks.
<popey> Gargoyle: point your sources.list at old-releases.ubuntu.com
<popey> sorry http://old-releases.archive.ubuntu.com/
<Gargoyle> No natty! http://old-releases.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/ :(
<mgdm> understandable..
<davmor2> Morning all
<Gargoyle> hi
<bigcalm> Yay, Virgrim Media cable is back
<dwatkins> for now ;)
<Gargoyle> popey: You were right first timeâ¦
<mgdm> what's the easiest way to have a VNC server on Ubuntu? Vino...?
<popey> its built in
<popey> (on the desktop)
<mgdm> Ah, nice
<mgdm> Been a while since I needed one
<popey> yes, vino
<davmor2> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YyDqoLimejg just had this baseline in my head took me an age to remember the track
<davmor2> popey: so I see giffgaff are back up then :)
<popey> yeah
<davmor2> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryCpg8f45gc classic
<rowinggolfer> popey, I moved from orange to giffgaff also. Only thing that sucks is the coverage here.
<popey> me too
<dwatkins> whose network do giffgaff use?
<dwatkins> I think talktalk uses vodafone's
<AlanBell> giffgaff is O"
<AlanBell> giffgaff is O2
<popey> 5 devices on giffgaff in our house!
<rowinggolfer> I wish I could get a network extender.. or whatever they're called
<popey> microcell
<shauno> I keep seeing them called femtocell too, with no discernable difference between them
<AlanBell> or a picocell
<dwatkins> I have a Vodafone microcell, but I'm on Three and O2 now, so it's no use to me.
<AlanBell> friend of mine set up a huge wifi network because of the rural location and crap service from BT http://www.marykirk.com/
<dwatkins> A friend has talktalk mobiles, but I don't think he can use the microcell, even though they're piggybacking on Vodafone's network.
<shauno> this is quite nerdtastic; http://htwins.net/scale2/  kinda stuff we should have had at school
<dwatkins> AlanBell: neat idea, I gather some people in Michigan did something similar and pay for fibre to a town and laid cables between the houses themselves.
<davmor2> 1 time....1time.....1time
<mgdm> Installing the nvidia drivers made the NIC go away (or so it seems, I can't prove causation :-)
<mgdm> so I can have a working network, or working graphics, but not both at the same time :(
<bigcalm> Is pastebin broken today?
<popey> yes
<bigcalm> Pop
<bigcalm> +o
<davmor2> popo
<TheOpenSourcerer> does anyone else zsync the daily isos? http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/current/
<TheOpenSourcerer> Am getting zsyncing daily-live/current/saucy-desktop-i386.iso.zsync ...
<TheOpenSourcerer> cdimage.ubuntu.com: No such file or directory
<TheOpenSourcerer> failed on url http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/current/saucy-desktop-i386.iso.zsync
<TheOpenSourcerer> could not read control file from URL http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/current/saucy-desktop-i386.iso.zsync
<popey> works here TheOpenSourcerer
<TheOpenSourcerer> nm - the server I was running on had a bad dns config
<TheOpenSourcerer> oops.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Wasn't resolving
<TheOpenSourcerer> It is now ;-)
<davmor2> TheOpenSourcerer: hehe
<popey> Myrtti / jussi http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-24303423
<popey> \o/
<Myrtti> Dracula *is* the best salmiakki
<diplo> Sounds awful!
<Myrtti> on the same, somewhat NSFW (sorry!) thread http://naurunappula.com/932919/sananlaskuja-englanniksi.jpg
 * bigcalm droops at that photo
<Myrtti> it's not naughty pictures
<Myrtti> just naughty words
<bigcalm> Aww
<popey> Myrtti: can you get dracula in the uk?
<Myrtti> I didn't know you can get any salmiakki in UK
<bigcalm> Closest is panda licorice in H&B
<Myrtti> that's licorice tho.
<bigcalm> Yes
<Myrtti> totally different animal.
<bigcalm> Apart from the colour ;)
<bigcalm> Isn't it a product of Finland?
<Myrtti> Panda licorice? yes
<bigcalm> Yay, I remembered correctly
<bigcalm> Most of my good memories of Finland are of food
<bigcalm> Oh damn, I want cheese now
<davmor2> bigcalm: Myrtti I prefer honey liquorice, but I think that is more denmark iirc
<Myrtti> I don't really eat that much of either
<Seeker`> Myrtti: http://www.cybercandy.co.uk/store/Finnish-Candy.html
<Seeker`> popey: ^
<popey> ta
<Seeker`> not dracula though
<Myrtti> oh crikey, they've got the Space soda
<Myrtti> orange cola â¥
<Myrtti> never heard of Viol
<Myrtti> Seeker`: http://www.cybercandy.co.uk/store/Dracula-Salty-Liquorice-Sweets-7314661114918.html
<Myrtti> popey: ^
<Seeker`> Myrtti: ah, cool. Shame I don't like liquorice :P
<Myrtti> there's very few kinds of salmiakki I like, and that's one of them
<popey> http://www.fazer.fi/Brandit/Tyrkisk_Peber/Valikoima/Tyrkisk-Peber-Original-150g/
<popey> want
<shauno> I want cheese :(
<shauno> unfortunately I crave bryndza, and the only place here that delivers wants a e50 minimum order.  and e50 is a lot of cheese.
<Seeker`> shauno: I fail to see the problem
<bigcalm> It's Friday!
<bigcalm> What does that mean?!
<bigcalm> Oh yes: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ti1D9t8n0qA
<davmor2> bigcalm: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Q7FFjUpVLg
<diddledan> why did I click bigcalm 's link?
<diddledan> wait, what?
<diddledan> wtf?!
<diddledan> that's worse than the original!
 * TheOpenSourcerer loves Yello :-)
<TheOpenSourcerer> My favourite yello track - turn it up LOUD! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40EqZE2uawU
<diddledan> why is youtube muted every video I play today?
<Myrtti> popey: to dilute into vodka, or to eat?
<daftykins> diddledan: that happened to me yesterday
 * TheOpenSourcerer thinks a hurricane just flew over his house.
<neuro> blah blah blah
<neuro> o hai :)
<popey> Myrtti: nom noms
<Myrtti> popey: you're a better Finn than I am. I can't stand that stuff
<Myrtti> if you had asked a week ago, I would've suggested a swap
<Myrtti> I'll send you two bags of salmiakki if you send me some Yorkshire
<Myrtti> but dsample is coming over to Finland in two weeks, so I'll just survive in the meantime
<davmor2> diddledan: it hates you, hate it back it works for me
<davmor2> TheOpenSourcerer: don't be daft you'd be missing roof tile if a hurricane went over your house.......oh hang on you mean the plane rightg :D
<livingdaylight> Hhi
<livingdaylight> recently got a mac mini, but its running really slow. Not impressed with lion osx. I do like the smallness of the mac mini though
<livingdaylight> I see that there is a Mintbox of similar stature, but pricier than mac-mini. Anyone know whether one can get them cheaper somewhere/somewhow or any other alternative for that matter?
<daftykins> livingdaylight: last i checked this was an ubuntu channel not a mac one
<daftykins> not heard of a Mintbox 0o sounds non ubuntu too
<livingdaylight> daftykins: that's a relief, coz that's why I'm here : )
<livingdaylight> Not heard of mintbox? http://www.pcworld.com/article/257368/meet_the_mintbox_a_new_mini_pc_with_linux_mint_preinstalled.html  http://www.fit-pc.com/web/products/mintbox/
<livingdaylight> Mintbox looks very nice but pricey imo. Can pick a mac mini up for less with teh same spec and put linux-distro on it, presumably. I imagine it will run quicker than Lion osx which as I say, isn't running well for me, anyway.
<daftykins> small generally means corners-cut-somewhere
<daftykins> what's the use-case, light web browsing?
<daftykins> your mac-mini probably is lacking in the disk and RAM departments
<livingdaylight> usage is heavy browsing, multimedia, light graphcis and wine applications
<livingdaylight> everything but gaming, which I don't care for, which is why I'm letting my bulky desktop go
<daftykins> i don't fancy the performance of those
<livingdaylight> this mac mini is the latest version with i5 processor, 4gb ram and HD4000 graphics.
<daftykins> HDD or SSD?
<livingdaylight> not sure there
<livingdaylight> would be cool if Ubuntu put some of these small machines in their shop too.
<daftykins> *Canonical
<livingdaylight> you know what I mean
<daftykins> yeah, accuracy is nice though
<daftykins> :>
<daftykins> you can use the system profiler under utilities in OS X to check device info on the storage
<livingdaylight> first time I've had an Apple; not impressed at all, very gnomish though :>
<daftykins> window management is pretty shocking in OS X
<livingdaylight> yes - indeed
<daftykins> do you not have a free upgrade to mountain lion also?
<livingdaylight> I already have lion osx as I said
<daftykins> lion != mountain lion
<daftykins> two separate releases
<livingdaylight> oh, dn't know about mountain lion
<livingdaylight> they released another one already?
<livingdaylight> so, its 500gb HDD
<daftykins> quite some time ago, yeah
<daftykins> Mavericks is the new one that's either out now or coming soon
<daftykins> mmm, nasty. mechanical is painful now :)
<daftykins> an i5 should be a nice speedy unit
<daftykins> maybe check the app store and see if it's offering you mountain lion?
<livingdaylight> that's what I thought/expected
<livingdaylight> oh, yea. Â£13.99 :)
<livingdaylight> I've had update alerts but not upgrade alerts
<livingdaylight> Linux is sooo much nicer ^
<Azelphur> dunno if people noticed this already, but https://www.privacynotprism.org.uk/ should be interesting to most people here
<livingdaylight> Azelphur: yes, I donated Â£1 to the cause today. Not much, I know, but if everyone did? Worthy cause imo
<Azelphur> indeed
<Azelphur> I'm game for that, I'll do the same
<diddledan> if the government has been snooping then they already know I'm a sick pervert. there's nothing new they can find out about me that they won't have already seen
<livingdaylight> I'd love to see them take uk government to the european courts of Human Rights?
<diddledan> friday.. pizza
 * diddledan wanders off to turn teh ovens on
<livingdaylight> did you see Kirsty Wark make a fool of herself on Newsnight yesterday? speaking with Glenn Greenwal who reminded her what journalism is about
<diddledan> o_O
<diddledan> no
<diddledan> what is journalism about according to Glenn?
<livingdaylight> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-moGtQFvsVU He was so sharp and on the ball
<livingdaylight> shouldn't journalism be about truth?
<livingdaylight> protecting democracy, holding power to account?
<daftykins> doesn't sound like Ubuntu :(
<diddledan> so baroness what's her face says the russians can decrypt 4096bit (probably) RSA
<diddledan> although glenn said ~4000 characters which may mean 8*4096bit
<diddledan> but the russians are "very sophisticated"
<diddledan> so it's obvious they can read stuff the NSA and GCHQ think is secure
<diddledan> (the affidavit glenn mentioned early on about his partner's arrest suggests that the NSA managed to reconstitute 70 documents off an encrypted device he was carrying. which means the NSA can't do it, but the russians can?)
<ali1234> diddledan: what?
<diddledan> ali1234: the newsnight video that livingdaylight posted
<ali1234> there are multiple different types of RSA
<diddledan> oh did I get confused
<ali1234> "4000 characters" doesn't really make a lot of sense though
<ali1234> sounds to me a lot like everyone involved has no idea what they are talking about
<diddledan> I don't know much about encryption other than "moar bits please" :-p
<ali1234> yeah that doesn't actually make sense
<diddledan> 4096 keys are still fairly rare afaik
<diddledan> bit*
<diddledan> most ssl servers use 1024 and the more forward thinking admin sets them to use 2048
<ali1234> 1024 bits is enough that it cannot be brute-forced with a computer the size of the universe, running since the beginning of the universe
<gordonjcp> ali1234: ... this month
<diddledan> until quantum computing becomes a reality, at any rate
<daftykins> all the things all the time \o/
<ali1234> if*
<diddledan> someone has actually built a 4(?) qubit supercomputer in a lab
<diddledan> and it works
<diddledan> might be 3
<diddledan> I forget
<ali1234> there is a problem with some newer variants on RSA though
<diddledan> there was a documentary a while back that featured it
<diddledan> yeah I've been hearing about potential flaws in RSA
<diddledan> or rather specific variants
<ali1234> basically the point is that unless people are very specific about what they are saying... it is meaningless
<diddledan> again I forget the specifics but SSL servers out of the box allow the use of some of the flawed varieties
<ali1234> it might as well be holywood hacker speak
<diddledan> some**
<diddledan> ali1234: hey, there's a place for hollywood hacker speak - makes me giggle
<diddledan> and mutter to myself and anyone who'll listen "how little they know.. *laugh*"
<diddledan> speaking of which. trinity actually (simulated) used a real-life bona-fide exploit (or maybe a mockup of the exploit in action) that average joe was able to do on an SSH server when she hacked into the city's power grid
<diddledan> well.. at least it _looked_ like it was the real-life exploit software
<ali1234> which makes no sense
<ali1234> they can manipulate the matrix to create guns out of thin air
<ali1234> but if they want to hack a computer system... they must work inside the rules of the simulation. wat?
<diddledan> lol
<daftykins> latest South Park involves US cable companies and Minecraft XD
<popey> nearly bought GTA again today!
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> popey: it is your DEStiny
<daftykins> perhaps if i bore you with more talk of it you'll give in? :)
<popey> haha
<shauno> it'll be interesting to hear your opinion once you finally buy it.  eg, whether tantric GTA actually works
<popey> â»
#ubuntu-uk 2013-10-05
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<MartijnVdS> \o
<bigcalm> Morning MartijnVdS
<bigcalm> Hi aq, still lagging?
<Myrtti> arg I can't decide if I should have breakfast before shower
<Myrtti> and I *still* don't have nice tea
<bigcalm> Myrtti: have breakfast in the shower
<bigcalm> Not sure what would survive. Sausages maybe?
<MartijnVdS> beer
<Myrtti> I don't really have either
<bigcalm> 1st time I've seen hotel internet done right: http://www.speedtest.net/result/3012715260.png
<MartijnVdS> more up than down? wut?
<bigcalm> Yeah, fun eh?
<Myrtti> seed all the Linux
<Myrtti> no, don't
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: leave positive reviews for it!
<bigcalm> Yus yus
<bigcalm> Free wifi didn't work
<bigcalm> Saw a patch lead on the desk in the hotel room (surprised that it hadn't been pinched). Gave it a go and was nicely surprised
<bigcalm> Tempted to stay in my hotel room rather than go to the conference now
<MartijnVdS> heheh
<bigcalm> Morning dogmatic69
<dogmatic69> yo bigcalm
<dogmatic69> finishing off my shed/office
<bigcalm> dogmatic69: do you know Richard McIntyre? Met him this morning at the phpnw13 conference breakfast. He appears to have done some cakephp talks
<bigcalm> Aha, a man cave?
<dogmatic69> ye, I think I met him
<dogmatic69> quite a hippy kinda looking guy?
<bigcalm> dogmatic69: yeah, he's got dreadlocks
<bigcalm> It's great to meet PHP devs outside of IRC
 * bigcalm regrets waking up at 6.45am now
<bigcalm> Time to be conferencey
<bigcalm> Toodles
<popey> morning
<MartijnVdS> \o
<Myrtti> derp
<Myrtti> I just realised that the charger cable for the Nokia QI thing I bought comes off from both ends
<Myrtti> and has a Nokia charger plug end on both ends.
<Myrtti> so I don't actually have to knit anything to cover the cable.d
<Myrtti> I feel a bit stupid now.
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<popey> \o/ wired xbox controller arrived
<brobostigon> less batteries to run out, always good.
<popey> ok, that works
<brobostigon> :)
<Azelphur> Oh look, slashdot has cottoned on to what I've been saying for the past few months http://hardware.slashdot.org/story/13/10/05/0021237/nvidia-removed-linux-driver-feature-for-feature-parity-with-windows
<Azelphur> \o/
<ali1234> Azelphur: that was posted ages ago tho
<SuperEngineer> Am I the only one who's Gwibber [in 12.04] has stopped updating from Facebook as of 3 days ago?
<SuperEngineer> [& hi folks!]
<kecskebak> Sorry I keep logging out and in again, but Chromium crashes and freezes Kubuntu solid about four times a day.
<kecskebak> You have to switch on and off again - it's not very graceful when it goes down!
<ali1234> so i used paint stripper to get the varnish off some wood panels
<ali1234> now it looks like someone smeared chocolate all over them
<ali1234> how am i supposed to clean that off?
<SuperEngineer> ali1234: yum, yum - licky licky#
<ali1234> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=b7HfOdzHVKw#t=97 <- LIIIEEEEEES
<ali1234> that is blatantly a different door
<light_> greetings
<arc__> hi i need help i have just installed open ssh and i followed a totorial but my mac can't connect to it
<arc__> hi i need help i have just installed open ssh and i followed a totorial but my mac can't connect to it
<arc__> can anyone help
<arc__> sorry my connection lagged out
<Myrtti> so what part are you having trouble with?
<arc__> i can see my laptop (ubuntu ssh) on my mac but it will always say connection failed but i have not put any authorisation keys in the .ssh folder
<arc__> this is the tutorial i used http://web.archive.org/web/20100719220308/http://blog.ibd.com/sysadmin/bonjour-avahi-netatalk-to-share-files-files-between-ubuntu-10-4-mac-os-x/
<arc__> i know it is a bit out dated but i am using 12.04 lts
<daftykins> arc__: have you confirmed SSH is running? what happens, it just times out?
<daftykins> or instant failure
<arc__> sorry but how can i check through terminal
<daftykins> netstat -tuln
<daftykins> you should see port 22 listening on both tcp and tcp6
<arc__> it is only listening on tcp6
<daftykins> that could be why you're having issues if you're trying to connect using a v4 IP
<X98Hacker> hi sorry abut that internet when it is me arc__
<X98Hacker> so it is only listening on tcp6 not tcp
<daftykins> that could be why you're having issues if you're trying to connect using a v4 IP
<arc__> ok but how do i do that (my nickname came back)
<daftykins> so from your mac you're typing what? "ssh 1.2.3.4" ?
<arc__> i am not typeing anything it can see it but when i click on it it says connection failed
<daftykins> oh right, so that's file sharing connection, not SSH
<arc__> if you had a look at the link i posted u might be able to understand my problem
<daftykins> i did look
<daftykins> hrmm
<arc__> do i need to port forward
<daftykins> not if they're both on the same LAN, no
<arc__> ok cool and they are in the same lan anyway
<arc__> but i have enabled web sharing on my mac with enables a apache web server but i can't connect to that ether
<daftykins> so both these computers are behind a home router, yes?
<daftykins> can you pastebin (paste.ubuntu.com) the output of "ifconfig -a" on the ubuntu system? or you can "apt-get install pastebinit" then run "ifconfig -a | pastebinit"
<arc__> kk wait a sec
<arc__> here u go http://paste.ubuntu.com/6197620/
<arc__> oh i forgot i am not connected to my router at the min
<arc__> i am mobile interneting
<arc__> i recenty diconnected my ethernet cable
<arc__> my router is strictly off the internet
<daftykins> usb0 0o some kinda USB wireless dongle?
<arc__> sorry
<arc__> no its most likely my mobile (xperia) thethered
<daftykins> ah right. in which case that system doesn't have a LAN IP so i'm not surprised nothing is connecting to it
<daftykins> eth0 shows no IP address
<arc__>  i can connect my router but it will disconnect me from the interweb can i fix that
<daftykins> is the ubuntu system a server install?
<arc__> no
<daftykins> you'd probably have to wrestle with network manager a bit
<arc__> kk :)
<daftykins> a guide online might be easier to find, i wouldn't know where to start
<arc__> ok i might stick to usb file sharing at the min then :(
<arc__> unless i install osx server or ubuntubppc on my mac
<daftykins> samba could work (:
<daftykins> but i'm not quite sure how you're using your phone tethering, that'll make things fun no doubt
<arc__> no i connect to my router when i try to file share
<arc__> my mobile is connected to the carrier (3) and is linked to my laptop for mobile internet
<arc__> that pushes the bar down a bit :)
<daftykins> sure but do you juggle the phone between these computers?
<arc__> yes and no i boot into win 7 and use network bridgeing to provide for my mac using a single cable
<arc__> I have to go now my food is ready i will be on at 9:00 or 10:00 uk tome (GMT 0)
<arc__> uk time i mean
<daftykins> think we're still on BST :D
<arc__> sorry i forgot #ubuntu-uk :D
<arc__> email me at x98hacker@gmail.com
<arc__> alsi i live in cov
<arc__> coventry
<arc__> see u later
<daftykins> hf
<mralc> hi
<daftykins> greetings
<mralc> how is everyone
<penguin42> full
<daftykins> tad bored
<daftykins> oh i was going to tidy up the house - :)
<mralc> Yes but it saturday night
<daftykins> ...so?
<mralc> and then nothing on tv
<mralc> i am new to linux
<mralc> and from the uk
<penguin42> mralc: Welcome on board
<mralc> i am windows/vmware consultant
<mralc> but have been meaning to get into linux for ages, but had a chance at work to using it and really like it
<daftykins> ^_^
<penguin42> mralc: Good! Now have you got Linux installed as vmware guests?
<mralc> yes
<mralc> i have been using centos alot
<mralc> but i have a old hp laptop which i have installed xbuntu on
<mralc> but the fan seem to be going all the time
<mralc> wb
<mralc> back
<daftykins> no, you left :D
<daftykins> wb to you!
<mralc> i have a question on partitioning on my hardrive
<mralc> i have a question on partitioning my hardrive
<brobostigon> fire away, someone who knows will answer.
<mralc> is best idea to create 3 partitions for a standard install of ubuntu i have a 120 GB in my laptop
<mralc> 1 for root,home and swap?
<daftykins> mralc: yeah, i do it that way
<daftykins> although i also like to partition /boot but i don't think it gives any advantages
<mralc> i was going to ask about boot
<mralc> who size is recommenced for root?
<daftykins> if you're going for a desktop 13.04 install, likely 15-20GB would be a good size
<daftykins> then you can allocate the majority of space to your /home for your personal data
<daftykins> mralc: so you can hibernate and sleep, you're going to want to make swap equal to or slightly larger than your RAM size
<mralc> thank you
<Myrtti> dumdidumdidum http://www.flickr.com/photos/myrtti/10105473956/
<dutchie> who's good for SSDs nowadays?
<daftykins> Samsung and Crucial
<daftykins> i'd mainly go for the longest warranty you can get from one of their (non-TLC) drives, which don't use a sandforce controller
<dutchie> tlc?
<daftykins> triple level cell
<daftykins> you want to stick to MLC based drives ideally
<daftykins> the samsung 840 pro hasn't really been beaten worthily yet
<dutchie> ooh, and it's not outrageously expensive
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> is it going in a SATA 6Gbps system?
<dutchie> it might be
<daftykins> cool
 * dutchie checks which sata ports are free
<shauno> I've been eyeing the 840's too, since they're going up to 1TB without being *too* silly expensive now
<daftykins> i think i saw a Â£400 1TB SSD the other day :O pretty good price i think
<daftykins> it may've been the Samsung Evo though, not a top performer
<dutchie> student loan doesn't stretch quite that far
<daftykins> haha
<shauno> yeah, the evo.  it's not cheap, about e500 .. but it's tempting
<dutchie> yay, i do have a 6Gbps free
<dutchie> not sure why the optical drive is plugged into it
<daftykins> haha
<daftykins> kick that sucker off
<dutchie> now i just have to decide whether i want 256GB or 128 :/
<hamitron> I'm waiting for my 64GB one
<hamitron> ;)
<hamitron> way I see it, if you spend half the amount now, you'll have the other half free to spend on a larger faster one at a later date
<hamitron> and you are losing no speed now... just need to make do with less space
<dutchie> hmm that kind of makes sense
<hamitron> it does when someone is a cheap git (like me)
<hamitron> ;)
<dutchie> but the plan is to use btrfs raid0 to give me more storage as current one is nearly full
<hamitron> you are getting 2?
<dutchie> i've got one alread
<dutchie> y
<hamitron> isn't btrfs that fs to help secure data?
<hamitron> or maybe I've got things mixed
<hamitron> rm -rf /some/random/file/*
<hamitron> not full now
<hamitron> :)
<penguin42> hamitron: Just remember raid0 makes it twice as likely to lose your data
<hamitron> more likely imo
<hamitron> :/
<daftykins> yip RAID 0 should be used only for things you don't care about
<dutchie> yeah i have backups :)
<daftykins> for example, storing your mother's TV soaps on
<hamitron> daftykins, haha
<daftykins> :D
<hamitron> I just can't see a point in mixing a fs to protect data, with a hardware setup to more than offset that
<hamitron> but I haven't moved with the times, still stuck on ext3
<hamitron> ;)
<daftykins> :O
<daftykins> why-so?
<hamitron> I have a few reasons
<hamitron> 1) loads of data already on the drives
<hamitron> 2) old fs lets me use old OS and tools should I need to
<hamitron> 3) lazy
<daftykins> :>
<daftykins> that's kinda why my file server is still Windows, NTFS volume
<hamitron> :-o
<daftykins> nowhere else to slap 5TB of stuff :D
<hamitron> yeh, storage is a real issue these days
<hamitron> speed is coming, just no storage
<hamitron> :/
<daftykins> or digital hoarding :D
<hamitron> I want a couple of 8TB hdd
<hamitron> with more than 1 year warranty
<shauno> yeah, I think packrats are the real issue there :p
<daftykins> :D
<hamitron> and for under 100 quid
<daftykins> it's great having local media though
<daftykins> i'm not a fan of this streaming malarkey
 * hamitron neither
<hamitron> I still have friends on dialup
<daftykins> whaaaaat D:
<daftykins> rural areas?
<hamitron> yeh
<hamitron> one of them could get DSL if he turned off one of his electric fences
<daftykins> hahaha
<hamitron> but tbh, I like local files
<hamitron> can move them to my phone to watch remotely
<hamitron> grrrr
<hamitron> wish i had my ssd now
<hamitron> wanna play
<hamitron> :/
<daftykins> :D
<hamitron> only ordered it because I have 2 hdd I like to raid 0
<daftykins> i have a new one for my server coming soon
<hamitron> and they seem unstable with my new motherboard
<hamitron> (cause it to freeze and cook the cpu)
<ali1234> i don't like copying a huge file on to my phone that i will only watch once
<daftykins> because of the NAND writes?
<ali1234> no because it takes ages
<daftykins> haha
<ali1234> 3 hours to copy a movie
<ali1234> i could have watched it on my computer in 1.5
<hamitron> haha
<ali1234> therefore i prefer streaming local files
<hamitron> well, I had some tutorials I like to repeatedly watch
<hamitron> whilst on the bus to training
<shauno> it takes 3 hours to copy it but it'll stream in realtime?
<ali1234> i know, weird right?
<hamitron> can't you transcode to smaller files?
<ali1234> well the ideal would e a streaming server that does that automatically
<ali1234> nexus 7 can't play HD videos anyway... it can barely play SD mpeg2
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> get a lumia
<hamitron> ;)
<ali1234> it can play HD if it is the right format of course, they all can
<ali1234> but stuff recorded from TV in mpeg is not the right format, so you have to use software players or reencode it
<ali1234> same for ripped dvds
<hamitron> no excuse to not re-encode with todays cpu
<hamitron> ;/
<ali1234> sure there is
<ali1234> reencoding makes it look crappier
<hamitron> on a phone screen, from a dvd hardly matters
<ali1234> then you need two copies
<ali1234> basically i just avoid watching videos on my phone because it sucks
<hamitron> oh, I only keep the master copy
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> yeh, probably best, unless you want it for a reason
<shauno> yeah, I'd have to be pretty desperate to watch a movie on my phone
<hamitron> mine are mostly vids of something I am trying to improve in boxing or something
<hamitron> no way I'd watch a movie/film
<shauno> especially now that I've mastered the art of passing out with ryanair screaming down my ears
<daftykins> XD
<hamitron> heck, I tried to watching a film on a 32" tv the other day, and didn't enjoy it
<daftykins> are they the ones with the ridiculous rules on how few items you can carry onto the plane?
<daftykins> i flew to Cork from Southampton/London with them
<hamitron> 20 mins in, moved to another room with a larger display
<daftykins> found it quite shocking :>
<shauno> oh they have rediculous rules for everything.  but yeah.  "one carry-on" means one.  no exceptions for laptop bags, camera bags, handbags, etc
<hamitron> what if 2 bags are linked?
<shauno> it's best just to put one inside the other.  trying to argue your case is rarely productive
<hamitron> so that 65 litre rucksack is useful
<hamitron> :)
<shauno> there's rules for size & weight too :p
<hamitron> damn :/
<hamitron> I don't wanna fly on an airline anyway
<shauno> but trying to beat them is like .. phoning home and saying, well .. the good news is I was right.  the bad news is I won't be home tonight
<ali1234> just avoid ryanair and easyjet. problem solved
<hamitron> and that foreign one with drinking and flying pilots
<hamitron> ;)
<shauno> that's rarely an option from here
<ali1234> that's not a problem. the planes fly themselves anyway
<ali1234> i'd feel safer if the pilot was asleep tbh
<shauno> heh, yeah .. there's an old joke about modern planes being flown by one pilot and one dog.  the pilot's there to feed the dog.  the dog's there to bite the pilot ifhe tries to mess with the buttons
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> didn't realise they referred to female pilots so impolitely
<hamitron> ;)
<daftykins> dude.
<shauno> :/
<penguin42> curious, I wonder how I got an O2 Wifi signal around here
<daftykins> 0o
<daftykins> just someones broadband provider? branded router perhaps
<penguin42> ah, unless the 'probe' line in kismet means that something was trying to connect to one rather than I heard one?
<ali1234> could be
#ubuntu-uk 2013-10-06
 * penguin42 is just trying to see if he could track the position of the citys trams some of which now have wifi - would be fun
<daftykins> :D
<penguin42> although I suspect I'm not close enough to the tracks and only a few of the trams have the wifi so far
<daftykins> penguin42: surprising they don't have live data :>
<penguin42> daftykins: <sigh>
<daftykins> hmm?
<daftykins> offer to set them up a system :D
<penguin42> daftykins: they've been trying to get a new 'Tram management system' going for many years, have taken the provider to court, and this is supposed to do many things including live data; but they haven't got it to work on the oldest parts of the system yet
<penguin42> daftykins: http://openlettertometrolink.blogspot.co.uk/  (warning a couple of bits of swearing)
<daftykins> :D
<ali1234> ah manchester trams
<daftykins> omg Gordon Burns!
<ali1234> i never thought they were too bad, just too expensive
<penguin42> ali1234: They're not bad most of the time, but they do have periods where they get bad, and they're completely useless when something minor breaks in some far part of the system it just screws the whole thing up
<ali1234> last time i used it there was only 3 lines
<ali1234> and really only two
<ali1234> eccles, altrincham, or bury
<penguin42> ali1234: It's gained a few more now
<ali1234> what is "oldham mumps"
<ali1234> it sounds like a disease
<penguin42> ali1234: There is Rochdale-oldham to Manchester, Didsbury to Manchester and Ashton to Manchester
<penguin42> ali1234: Oldham mumps is a station in Oldham, at least one theory is it was named (or the original railway station/area) was named after a mumps output
<penguin42> break
<ali1234> why would you name a station after that??
<penguin42> ah, wikipedia says 'The name of the station is taken from its situation within the Mumps area of Oldham, which itself probably derived from the archaic word "mumper", slang for a beggar'
<ali1234> that's not much better :/
<penguin42> ali1234: The choice of good things to pick in Oldham is pretty limited
<ali1234> when are they going to build the line through fallowfield and victoria park?
<penguin42> hmm I'm not sure I've heard of that
<penguin42> http://www.metrolink.co.uk/futuremetrolink/Pages/airport-line.aspx is the only sother southern line I know
<ali1234> it's on this picture titles "metrolink 2030"
<ali1234> http://www.projectmapping.co.uk/Reviews/Resources/Future%20Metrolink%202030.gif
<penguin42> huh not seen some of those
<penguin42> ali1234: Some of them are really odd, like the airport one they're building at the moment; the Airport already has a regular train link and the tram line they're doing goes a biarrely long route
<ali1234> well, there's not point following the existing route
<penguin42> ali1234: Well the original Bury/Altrincham lines were conversions of train routes
<ali1234> it's weird to me that manchester has trains too
<ali1234> but you never see stations
<penguin42> yeh, unlike Liverpool where it's prettymuch their own undeground
<ali1234> unless you go to levenshulme
<penguin42> ali1234: never see?
<ali1234> i mean train stations, not tram stops
<ali1234> obviosly you see piccadilly and oxford road
<ali1234> but i mean the local stations
<penguin42> hmm, they are around just not particularly dense, and they're normally because they're on a route to somewhere else
<ali1234> i used to get the train from levenshulme to town a lot
<ali1234> it was much cheaper than the tram
<penguin42> well except there wasn't a tram from levenshulme so it's difficult to compare
<ali1234> well yeah
<ali1234> but it was like Â£2, and going 1 stop on the tram was like Â£3.60
<ali1234> but this is why it's weird
<ali1234> there's busses, trains, and trams, and the only interchange is at piccadilly/oxford road/victoria
<penguin42> yeh, it's very variable - mine doesn't work out too badly; it works out ~150 for 3 months quarterly ticket
<ali1234> i never had enough money to buy more than a weekly pass
<penguin42> ali1234: There are some more minor interchanges, e.g. Deansgate train station is linked to a Metrolink station, similarly there are major bus stations next to the Picadilly Gardens and Shudehill stations
<ali1234> those are all within walking distance from the city centre though
<penguin42> yes
<penguin42> there are a few other hubs; like Bury and Altrincham have the tram/bus stations close together
<ali1234> yeah i used to live in altrincham too :)
<ali1234> but closer to navigation road
<penguin42> ali1234: But that's a weird one - that one is both a train and tram station?
<ali1234> yes but so is altrincham - and a bus depot too
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/hdwboctp8y5lknk/yIcvAOJERu
<daftykins> never made one before @_@
<ali1234> daftykins: what is it?
<ali1234> a fried cheese sandwich?
<ali1234> i've never even heard of such a thing before...
<ali1234> but now i want one
<penguin42> for when the cheese isn't fatty enough
<daftykins> ^precisely
<daftykins> i'm skinny though so it's fine
<popey> interestingly i only heard of them recently
<popey> via reddit/imgur or something
<popey> and the instant I saw it, I wanted one
<ali1234> i guess it's like a cheese toasty, without the breville
<popey> yeah
<popey> withouy the nuclear hot filling, but close
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> i can officially endorse them
<Myrtti> morning
<daftykins> hiya
<jsm4311> exit
<Myrtti> Ceterum censeo, Project Hamster needs crowdfunding
<Myrtti> and someone to maintain it
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<roht> tanks
<brobostigon> morning roht
<roht> morning
<MartijnVdS> \o
<brobostigon> morning MartijnVdS
<popey> Does steam tell you when you're playing a game which is beta?
<popey> well, tell your friends?
<MartijnVdS> popey: I don't think so
<popey> can you see what I'm playing now for example?
<MartijnVdS> popey: let me check
<MartijnVdS> "in-game: godus"
<popey> so it does, interesting
<SuperEngineer> popey - if you want to see what others see, click your piccy on bottom right
<Myrtti> oh yeah and Harvest support would be great too.
 * MartijnVdS reports a kernel bug
<MartijnVdS> well, did an hour ago
<penguin42> what did it do?
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: they forgot to enable L2TP v3 ("pseudowire") support
<penguin42> what's the bug number?
<MartijnVdS> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1235914
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 1235914 in linux (Ubuntu) "Please enable L2TPv3 support and related modules" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: Was it previously enabled or is it something new?
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: I don't think it's been enabled before, it's been in the kernel since 2.6.35ish, but it wasn't mature then
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: according to http://wiki.openwrt.org/doc/howto/pseudowire
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: OK, I've just marked it triaged/low - you might want to try pinging someone in #ubuntu-kernel if nothing happens for a while
<MartijnVdS> ok, thanks - it's not a release-critical issue for me.. but it'd be nice to have in the LTS :)
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: Hmm for the 14.03 you mean?
<penguin42> hmm I was about to set a 'target to milestone' for that LTS and now I'm confused, I seem to have options for 13.11,13.12,14.01,14.02,14.03 which seems new
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: The other thing is that if it's enabled in the kernel and you know how to try it then keep an eye on it to see whether any of the user space tools need an update
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: "ip l2tp" complains atm, I think it would start working with the module enabled
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: Nod, it's just not too unusual to need to update that stuff
<SuperEngineer> phew! realised I hadn't tried the 3g dongle since last kernel update.  Plugged the (1/2) USB in socket wrong way round: instant "click" from psu & pwer kill :(
<SuperEngineer>  Waited 2mins - restarted - got away with it :)
<SuperEngineer> [and dongle ok as well ;)
<SuperEngineer> ...things not to do whilst awaiting the F1 replay on telly!
<popey> penguin42: we use monthly milestones for tracking
<Myrtti> popey: do you have few minutes for a pm? just nosying around
<penguin42> popey: Ah ok, I was wondering if it was a sign of the mythical rolling release system
<popey> Myrtti: sure, anytime
<arc__> hello
<arc__> i am back again with my problems
<arc__> i think i was talking to daftkins last time
<daftykins> ask away!
<arc__> anyway i have a problem with file sharing between my mac g5 and my ubuntu laptop my mac always says that the connection has failed
<arc__> I used this tutioral web.archive.org/web/20100719220308/http://blog.ibd.com/sysadmin/bonjour-avahi-netatalk-to-share-files-files-between-ubuntu-10-4-mac-os-x/
<arc__> i am using ubuntu 12.04 LTS
<arc__> can anyone help
<daftykins> ah yes - did you end up connecting the ubuntu PC to the router without your phone tethered?
<arc__> yep but it still does not work
<daftykins> with that done, it could be handy to pastebin the output of "ifconfig -a" and "netstat -tuln" again
<daftykins> biab shower time
<penguin42> (macs still use netatalk - wow....)
<arc__> ok but do u want me to connect to my router and do it
<arc__> yes or no
<penguin42> arc__: Can the mac ping the ubuntu box?
<daftykins> penguin42: the other day i was weirded out by his SSH listening on IPv6 only, as 'netstat -tuln' reported only tcp6 :22 - i didn't know if this was what was causing issues
<daftykins> anywho shower bbl :>
<arc__> i haven't tryied but my ubuntu laptop can ping the mac but i can't access my mac apache web server
<arc__> i will turn my g5 (mac) on noe
<arc__> it has lift off (my g5 is on)
<penguin42> arc__: Yeh I'd check they can ping each other (by name) and if it can't access your macs apache that's a bit odd, I'd probably figure that out before doing anything more comple
<penguin42> x
<arc__> ok but also is there a way to keep my usb mobile tether internet connected whille my ehernet is connected
<arc__> cuz i all ways use mobile internet (unlimited data :)
<penguin42> I'd expect that to 'just' work - just be careful with the IP address range each network uses
<arc__> ok but how can i use 2 at the same time
<penguin42> hang on, which ubuntu you using - standard ubuntu - 13.04?
<arc__> normal 12.04 LTS on my laptop
<penguin42> ah ok
<penguin42> let me just boot my 12.04 vm
<arc__> kk
<penguin42> I've not done USB tether, but I guess that just shows as another connection in network manager?
<arc__> yea it dies
<arc__> i mean does
<penguin42> arc__: How is your ethernet done - is it just a switch wired between a few machines or do you have a router doing DHCP?
<arc__> no internet but connected to 1 or sometimes 2 other machines
<arc__> my mac can't ping my router
<arc__> or even access it
<arc__> wii reboot my mac ang try again
<arc__> rebooting now
<arc__> (on my G5)
<penguin42> but what do you mean by 'router' - where is the router in this?
<arc__> i want the "router" so i connect computers to my network to share and backup family files on a cut off network and to share files from my mobile via wifi
<penguin42> hmm ok, but I think you need to draw a diagram of how this thing is wired - I don't quite get it
<penguin42> arc__: a question to ask is think of your ubuntu box, it's tethered via usb, but also wired to a router, say it wants to connect out to google how does it know whether to go via the router or via the usb
<daftykins> i figured his setup was tripping over default routes yeah
<arc__> yea that is one of my problems i want the usb internet but still connect to my router is there a way to do this propely
<penguin42> arc__: Right, so when do you want stuff to go via the router?
<penguin42> arc__: You can do this, the challenge is to start by writing down what rules you want - when do you want stuff to go where
<arc__> my file shares
<arc__> kk
<penguin42> arc__: Right but you said about your wifi - when does that happen?
<arc__> it is a idea that i want to implement to add to the file shareing but lets ignore that for now
<penguin42> arc__: OK, well for filesharing you don't need the router at all
<arc__> so how do i do it then
<penguin42> arc__: Just plug the computers together using a dumb switch
<arc__> a what ?
<penguin42> just a normal ethernet switch
<arc__> ok so can i make one do i buy one
<penguin42> arc__: If you have a router, you can probably also do it with that if you're more careful
<arc__> kk so lets do this
<penguin42> arc__: First off, take your ubuntu box, just plug in the usb tether and then figure out what IP address it thinks it has ; so with just the usb tether plugged in   in a terminal do     ifconfig -a     and look for an    inet addr:     line - what does it say
<arc__> so my mac is log in to my router
<penguin42> arc__: e.g. I've got an eth0 that says    inet addr:192.168.66.33
<arc__> on usb0 is says inet addr:192.168.42.128
<penguin42> ok, good write that down and also keep a note of the bcast and mask stuff on that line
<arc__> done
<arc__> afk for a sec
<penguin42> now, unplug the usb tether and just plug in your ether  and do the same trick
<arc__> ok i am back
<arc__> ok i will do that but it will disconnect my from the internet so i will use another name untill it pings me out i will use X98Hacker
<arc__> kk see u in a sec
<X98Hacker> kk i am back
<penguin42> ok
<X98Hacker> it says this on eth0 inet addr:192.168.1.2  Bcast:192.168.1.255  Mask:255.255.255.0
<penguin42> X98Hacker: OK, good - so that means that your usb is using 192.168.42.x and your router is handing out 192.168.1.x which is good because they don't clash
<X98Hacker> yay :)
<penguin42> X98Hacker: Now, if you do     route -n    what does the default line say ?
<X98Hacker> is says this on the first line  0.0.0.0         192.168.42.129  0.0.0.0         UG    0      0        0 usb0
<penguin42> ok
<penguin42> X98Hacker: So that says go to your usb tether (192.168.42.129) for anything it doesn't know
<penguin42> X98Hacker: The trick is to keep that even when your wired is plugged in
<X98Hacker> ok so how do we do that then
<penguin42> X98Hacker: So I bet if you just have your wired plugged in ithat changes to something like 0.0.0.0 192.168.1.1 ...... eth0   ?
<X98Hacker> i think it would
<X98Hacker> wait would it not "192.168.1.2"
<penguin42> X98Hacker: I don't think so, I think your router has the IP 192.168.1.1 and your ubuntu box has 192.168.1.1
<X98Hacker> wait let me paste.ubuntu something
<X98Hacker> http://paste.ubuntu.com/6201217/ here this is on just connected to the router
<penguin42> right
<X98Hacker> it say  192.168.1.2
<penguin42> X98Hacker: So that machines your ubuntu has the address 192.168.1.2 - the router has a different address, every machine on a network has a different address including the router
<penguin42> X98Hacker: Go on, pastebin the output of route -n   on the wired network
<X98Hacker> ok then i will rejoin as arc__ again then see ya
<arc__> ok i am back pasteing it know
<arc__> here it is http://paste.ubuntu.com/6201232/
<penguin42> right
<penguin42> arc__: So that says if it doesn't know where else to go, connect to the router at 192.168.1.1
<penguin42> arc__: But for everything in 192.168.1.x it just goes direct (that's the last line)
<arc__> kk so that means
<penguin42> arc__: The way IP works is that whenever it tries to connect somewhere it looks down the list and goes 'WHich one of these rules matches the address I'm going to' (ish)
<penguin42> arc__: So what you need to do is stop it putting in that default line on wired
<penguin42> arc__: So do network manager-edit connections-wired
<arc__> kk
<arc__> so do i type in this to terminal  network manager-edit connections-wired
<penguin42> arc__: Then select your wired connetion and do edit and go to IPv4 settings, change it from Automatic (DHCP) to Automatic DHCP (address only)
<penguin42> arc__: Now if you do that, save it, and then unplug and replug the wired you should find the ifconfig is the same but the route -n   doesn't have the default line
<arc__> wait
<arc__> so do i type in this to terminal  network manager-edit connections-wired
<penguin42> no, you can do it from the GUI
<penguin42> arc__: Click on the network icon on the panel and there is an 'edit connections' option
<arc__> cool i was thinking that sorry :)
<X98Hacker> sorry i did it to my usb internet
<penguin42> yeh you see that would be a bad idea
<X98Hacker> so i do it to auto eth0
<penguin42> nod
<X98Hacker> kk do it
<X98Hacker> i mean done it
<penguin42> X98Hacker: Because you want your ubuntu box to use the address given (by dhcp by the router) but you don't want it to bother using any other info like the route the router gives out
<X98Hacker> now if i plug my eth0 in it will work right i am doing it now
<penguin42> if it does then look at the ifconfig and route -n output
<X98Hacker> pengiun42
<penguin42> hey
<X98Hacker> that did not work did you see this message
<X98Hacker> pluged in can you see this
<penguin42> I can see you now
<X98Hacker> ok pasteing now
<penguin42> X98Hacker: So the question is with it plugged in what did the   ifconfig -a and route -n look like
<X98Hacker> have a look for your self http://paste.ubuntu.com/6201313/
<penguin42> hmm, it's still set the default interface to the router
<daftykins> perhaps it didn't flush from before
<X98Hacker> kk
<penguin42> let me just try it in my VM
<X98Hacker> ok
<penguin42> hmph yes it ignores it - hmm
<penguin42> let me try something
<X98Hacker> wait don't read the top bit read after need to send
<X98Hacker> why do you just team viewer me
<penguin42> ok, got it
<X98Hacker> cool
<penguin42> X98Hacker: On the edit connections, under IPv4 setting ther eis a box 'Routes' click it
<penguin42> X98Hacker: And then tick the two boxes 'ignore automatically obtained routes' and 'use this connection only for reosurces on its network'
<penguin42> (at least you need the Use this connection.... one I don't know if you also need the top one, I don't see why ticking the top one doesn't also do the bottom)
<X98Hacker> ok i have cilck it and pressed ok
<penguin42> then click save, and disconnect/reconnect the wired
<X98Hacker> ok crossed fingers
 * penguin42 undoes that before it confuses the heck out of him
<X98Hacker> ok pengin
<X98Hacker> can u see this
<X98Hacker> kk
<X98Hacker> i said ok penguin did u see it i had to unplug the eth0
<penguin42> nod
<penguin42> I saw the ok pengin
<X98Hacker> after that what did u see
<penguin42> can u see this
<penguin42> then kk
<X98Hacker> ok so it did work but on x-chat-gnome it says +22.5 lag for some reson i will reconect my eth0 then
<X98Hacker> pengiun say testing
<penguin42> testing!
<X98Hacker> that did not work
<penguin42> ok, so what does your route/ifconfig look like in that state?
<X98Hacker> when i connected mt eht0 i could not connect to google.com
<X98Hacker> here u go http://paste.ubuntu.com/6201369/
<X98Hacker> just to let u know i am only on usb0 i disconnected my eth0
<penguin42> ok, so that looks right though
<penguin42> with both plugged in can you ping google by ip - e.g.   ping 8.8.8.8
<X98Hacker> but i can't connect to google.com
<penguin42> right but try to see if IP works first
<X98Hacker> kk going in again
<X98Hacker> it says operation not permited
<X98Hacker> diconnected also when eth0 is connected my mobile say there is no out going or in going connection
<X98Hacker> diconnected also when eth0 is connected my mobile say there is no out going or in going connection
<penguin42> I don't really get that since I can see the ifconfig showing the usb connected and the eth connected?
<X98Hacker> it says operation not permited
<penguin42> to do what?
<X98Hacker> to do ping 8.8.8.8
<X98Hacker> diconnected also when eth0 is connected my mobile say there is no out going or in going connection
<penguin42> I don't see why it would say  operation not permitted?!  I get connect: Netowkr is unreachable  but never not permitted
<X98Hacker> yea
<X98Hacker> maybe rdp me anfd
<penguin42> X98Hacker: You could try     nmcli c status
<X98Hacker> team viewer me and have a look for your self
<penguin42> I've never used team viewer
<X98Hacker> ok
<arc__> ok here it is http://paste.ubuntu.com/6201405/
<arc__> i pulled out the wire again to get back
<arc__> to the internet
<arc__> penguin have u read the paste yet
<penguin42> sorry
<arc__> sorry for what
<penguin42> see that all looks good
<arc__> but i cant get onto google !
<penguin42> arc__: yeh, so start out with some more pings, can you ping 127.0.0.1 (i.e. localhost) or ping 192.168.1.2 ?
<arc__> kk will plug in eht0 and try now
<arc__> kk can ping 196.168.1.1 192.168.1.2 192.168.1.3 only
<arc__> so my router  my laptop(which i am using) and my mac g5
<arc__> i have pulled out my eth0 as well
<arc__> form my laptop again
<arc__> so what to do now penguin
<penguin42> I don't see why that wouldn't work from the route -n/ifconfig you show - I could understand if there was a DNS/name problem - but I don't understand why you can't ping by IP
<arc__> confusing :(
<penguin42> arc__: Can you ping say 91.189.89.103 (one of the canonical webservers)
<arc__> i will try
<penguin42> I'm going to make some food - back in about 30mins
<arc__> wait asec
<arc__>  let me paste is
<arc__> ok here it is http://paste.ubuntu.com/6201474/
<arc__> daftykins: have a look at this for me http://paste.ubuntu.com/6201474/
<daftykins> that's weird
<arc__> yea it is weired
<arc__> i had to unplug mt eth0 to get on to the internet
<arc__> i am going to connect my eth0 again to see what my router logs say
<arc__> kk says nothing
<arc__> daftykins: U have any good ideas
<arc__> afk going for a shower
<arc__> i am back
<daftykins> penguin42: would it be viable to hardcode /etc/network/interfaces with eth0 and let network manager handle the tether alone?
<arc__> daftykins: penguin42 gone to eat
<daftykins> yeah he'll see it when he returns though
 * penguin42 rematerialises
<arc__> oh yea :)
<daftykins> i think it'd be wise not to do anything for now as it might undo what he's already had you do
<daftykins> ah there you go (:
<penguin42> daftykins: Yeh I think you can do some fixed in interfaces but am not sure - the thing which gets me is the 'operation not permitted' that's very odd
<daftykins> yep i don't have a clue what'd cause that
<daftykins> unless a parameter were set wrong
<arc__> my router is a netgear wgu624
<penguin42> daftykins: The only time I've seen ping give an operation not permitted is to send a broadcast ping, but I don't see how that address could be interepreted as a broadcast
<penguin42> arc__: OK, here's an idea, go into network settings, select the ethernet connection and select ipv4 settings and untick the connect automatically, and set the method to 'Disabled'
<penguin42> arc__: Then see if you can plug in the ether without it all blowing up
<szymon_g> hi
<arc__> ok pluged in and nothing has pop up
<penguin42> arc__: Good
<daftykins> szymon_g: greetings
<penguin42> arc__: Now issue the following magic     ifconfig eth0 192.168.1.2 netmask 255.255.255.0
<penguin42> arc__: then ifconfig eth0 up
<szymon_g> i've installed ubuntu 13.10 beta 2, how can i remove hud (the one that is activated with the "alt" button) and put menu-bars back inside the windows (and not on the top panel)?
<arc__> ok done
<penguin42> arc__: Now, can you ping 192.168.1.1 ?
<arc__> yes i can :)
<Azelphur> Boffer are selling job lots of Nexus 7 2013 32GB, 2 for Â£277.98 (ex-vat) comes to Â£170 each with VAT and everything, killer deal baring in mind they are Â£240 from google
<Azelphur> me and my friend just split the cost and bought 2
<penguin42> arc__: OK, great
<penguin42> arc__: Now, what you could try doing is going back to network settings, and setting it to connect automatically and connect automatically, then hit the add button and add the 192.168.1.2 there - then it will do it automatically for you
<penguin42> arc__: There is a gotcha though
<daftykins> szymon_g: have you tried in #ubuntu+1 ?
<penguin42> arc__: since your computer isn't dhcp'ing any more your router won't know it's using 192.168.1.2 and it might give 192.168.1.2 to one of your other machines, so either you set all your wired machines manually, or you might be able to change the router config to have some that it doesn't hand out automatically
<arc__> what methood
<penguin42> arc__: So that depends on the GUI in the router
<arc__> so i have clicked on connect auto now what
<arc__> i can't hit the add button
<penguin42> you set it to 'Manual'
<penguin42> arc__: Connect automatically, Method: Manual
<arc__> ok i hit add and typed 192.168.1.1 but there are 2 boxes un filled
<penguin42> arc__: Netmask is 255.255.255.0  leave the gateway empty
<arc__> i clicked save and now say in a pop up connected
<arc__> damm same result as last time i hit disconnect on the auto eth0
<penguin42> arc__: OK, in that case sod it, set it back to manual  and that pair of ifconfig commands will do it, or you can manually set those in /etc/network/interfaces
<arc__> now what
<penguin42> arc__: BUT remember what I say about configuring your router
<arc__> ok but what should i cong it to do
<arc__> kk can login to my router
<penguin42> arc__: It will have a section on DHCP, you can either turn it's dhcp off (so then you'll have to give each of your computers an address manually) or you can see the range of IPs it gives, maybe it gives 192.168.1.2-192.168.1.127 say, then you can give your ubuntu PC  something between 192.168.1.127-192.168.1.254
<penguin42> arc__: If you don't then your router might give 192.168.1.2 to your mac or something else at some random time
<arc__> it says use router as dhcp and it is cheacked
<penguin42> arc__: OK, so you could turn that off, but then you'll need to manually configure all your machines - or you can look if it has other DHCP options on there - some detail
<arc__> ok add my laptop or device to the adress table as 192.168.1.2
<arc__> reservation table
<penguin42> yeh that might do it
<arc__> ok next step
<daftykins> DHCP leases can be pretty unreliable
<daftykins> but ah well
<arc__> lol :)
<arc__> are we at the file shareing bit yet
<penguin42> arc__: Haha, well, can you ping the mac?
<arc__> i will switch it on now
<arc__> yea i can ping it
<penguin42> good
<arc__> yay its working
<penguin42> wahey!
<penguin42> I'd love to know why you get the permission problem on ping the way we had it
<arc__> so now down to the file shareing problem
<penguin42> does it still happen?
<arc__> i am checking give me a sec plz
<arc__> yea it says connection failed on the shared tab but it can see my device
<arc__> i mean laptop
<penguin42> ok, I've got no idea how the mac is trying to connect - does it say if it's samba/appleshare/ssh/ftp/mindreading
<daftykins> :D
<arc__> no lol
<arc__> but it can ping my ubuntu laptop
<penguin42> hmph that would be too easy
<arc__> ok this is the tutoiral i used http://web.archive.org/web/20100719220308/http://blog.ibd.com/sysadmin/bonjour-avahi-netatalk-to-share-files-files-between-ubuntu-10-4-mac-os-x/
<arc__> remember
<penguin42> arc__: What confuses me about that is that it seems to have installed most of the planet, it's not clear to me which it's using
<arc__> ok can u take me step by step on the best way to file share on mac and laptop
<daftykins> samba might work :D
<penguin42> arc__: http://www.macworld.com/article/2012153/eight-ways-to-connect-to-a-server.html
<arc__> kk will have a look
<penguin42> arc__: That suggests from the 'connect to server' you can specify the protocol - so try  smb://laptopname.local
<arc__> kk will try that
<penguin42> right, now to go and rescue my pudding that I put in the oven 30mins ago
<arc__> kk but dont i have to install samba first
<arc__> connection failed
<daftykins> can you pastebin "netstat -tuln" from the ubuntu system?
<arc__> kk wait a sec
<arc__> here u go http://paste.ubuntu.com/6201757/
<arc__> it look like it is only listen on port 22 on tcp6
<daftykins> nah 22 is there, line 8
<daftykins> but nah i was just curious what services would show up
<daftykins> for smb you'd need samba installed and a share configured yep
<daftykins> sudo apt-get install samba
<arc__> got the newest ver already
<daftykins> ok now you need to edit /etc/samba/smb.conf to set up a share
<daftykins> you need the line "security = user" in there
<arc__> wow that is a lot of text i will paste it to u and u can tell me what to do
<daftykins> nah no need
<arc__> where to put it in
<daftykins> just find the security = user and make sure it's not commented out (i.e. no # in front of it)
<arc__> ok uncommented
<daftykins> it's under the heading "Authentication"
<daftykins> ok now right at the end of the file, we need to setup a share
<daftykins> so for example:
<arc__> kk
<daftykins> http://paste.ubuntu.com/6201781/
<daftykins> there's a very basic one
<arc__> so i could set path to any folder in my /home dir
<daftykins> yep
<daftykins> or technically anywhere on the file system, but then there'd be permissions hassle so it'd be easier to keep it inside /home/your username/
<daftykins> you could set browsable = yes as well, that's fine on your own home network
<arc__> kk saved and exited
<daftykins> right, now run "sudo smbpasswd <your username> -a"
<arc__> have to go but will use my phone irc client i am X98Hacker
<daftykins> ok
<penguin42> daftykins: It's kind of insane that you have to do that editing the config
<daftykins> truth be told i should probably have said 'right click a folder and share it'
<daftykins> my head is just in the default mode of pure-CLI headless server >_<
 * popey is kinda addicted to Godus
 * daftykins finds a video
<MartijnVdS> popey: don't do it! :)
<daftykins> seems like a common theme
<X98Hacker> Hi penguin
<penguin42> daftykins: Right, that's what I'd expected
<penguin42> X98Hacker: Hey
<X98Hacker> I am away from my setup
<X98Hacker> But will be able to stuff at 9 or 11 o'clock
<X98Hacker> So. In a nut shell how do I setup the samba share I m sure u saw what daftykins told me what to do
<daftykins> hrmm i'm not sure whether it's worth undoing what i'd said already
<penguin42> hey I haven't done samba for ages so do with daftykins stuff
<daftykins> or just committing to it
<X98Hacker> Kk
<daftykins> X98Hacker: so run "sudo smbpasswd <your username> -a" and create a password the same as your user's password, for simplicity's sake
<X98Hacker> Oh ok
<X98Hacker> Afk
<X98Hacker> I'm back
<X98Hacker> Kk daftykins
<X98Hacker> Will run it when I get back home
<X98Hacker> But can I also create a share on my mac so ubuntu files can go on that
<X98Hacker> Any ideas
<daftykins> i've not really done any file sharing on macs
<X98Hacker> Also penguin what about sharing from my mobile to my ubuntu laptop
<X98Hacker> Via that router
<penguin42> X98Hacker: hmm not sure how to share from a mobile via wifi
<X98Hacker> Could I not connect by smb:// laptop.local on a mobile client
<penguin42> X98Hacker: Yeh if you have a mobile smb client (do they exist?) a web browser is probably easier
<X98Hacker> Yea. Oj
<X98Hacker> Ok
<X98Hacker> Oh what about the apache webserver I enabled on my mac how do I setup the apache server
<penguin42> hey that's a Mac, you've just got to find the right button....
<X98Hacker> Lol :)
<X98Hacker> But isn't mac and linux based on unix
<ali1234> linux is based on windows. but don't tell anyone i told you this.
<X98Hacker> :D
<daftykins> cat officially out of the bag
<daftykins> i bet the BBC would write that.
<X98Hacker> Yea
<X98Hacker> Did anyone see citizen khan on Friday
<daftykins> you might be better off using something like dropbox if you want to share pics from your phone to your PCs
<daftykins> but since you seem to be tethering everything i'd fear for your data contract / mobile bill :D
<X98Hacker> Hey unlimited data :D
<X98Hacker> I am on 3
<ali1234> if you want to get pics onto your computer use ubuntu one
<X98Hacker> No it was just a file share I wanted and that was I got
<X98Hacker> If I wanted a ftp server on my ubuntu laptop then what do I do just curious
<daftykins> google for one and install it, i'd say
<popey> !ftp
<lubotu3> FTP clients: Nautilus (Places -> Connect to server), gFTP, FileZilla (for !GNOME); Konqueror, Kasablanca, KFTPGrabber (for !KDE); FireFTP (for Firefox); ftp, lftp (for !cli) - See also !FTPd
<penguin42> X98Hacker: How much does that cost you and how much bandwidth do you actually get?
<popey> !ftpd
<lubotu3> FTP servers: ftpd, proftpd, pure-ftpd, twoftpd, vsftpd, MuddleFTPd, wzdftpd - Graphical front-ends: PureAdmin, GProftpd (for GNOME), KcmPureftpd (for !KDE) - See also !FTP
 * penguin42 would probably go for either proftpd or vsftpd
<X98Hacker> 15 a month
<X98Hacker> Oh ok
<X98Hacker> If my WiFi just reached 10miles from my home then I could use team viewer
<daftykins> haha, to do what?
<daftykins> what's the main objective you're trying to achieve?
<daftykins> you mention file sharing but, what files between which devices for what purposes? :)
<X98Hacker> I am at a very loud Indian festival
<daftykins> it might allow us to narrow down suitable things
<penguin42> X98Hacker: If you've got a webserver that can do webdav then frankly that might be easier from a mobile
<X98Hacker> Ok the files like backups and archive like I got whole load of ISO and software I want to archive
<X98Hacker> I
<X98Hacker> Actually I ended up putting files on my ubuntu laptop instead of my mac
<X98Hacker> Sigh
<X98Hacker> Nooooooooo
<X98Hacker> But it doesn't matter now I will upgrade my laptop HDD to 1tb instead
<X98Hacker> Penguin64: but I need to config the web server which is on my mac and no one knows how to use a mac
<X98Hacker> Damm I ment penguin42
<X98Hacker> Is there a good mac or OSX inc I can go to as well
<X98Hacker> I mran irc
<DJones> IT AIN'T NOVEMBER 5TH, PEOPLE LETTING FIREWORKS OFF NOW SHOULD HAVE THEM STUFFED UP THEIR JACKSIE ALONG WITH A A GALLON OF PETROL & TOLD TO TRY IT AGAIN NEXT YEAR
<daftykins> wow, people starting near you already?
<DJones> Yep
<daftykins> now i live in town i wonder if i will be safe
<X98Hacker> Most likely Indians
<daftykins> might be some kind of town show though
<DJones> Idiots fireing rockets towards people earlier
<daftykins> D:
<DJones> Going to start walking the dog with a baseball bat
<X98Hacker> :D
<DJones> Or maybe the lead weighted handle pool cue
<daftykins> dog too old to learn a new trick? :)
<daftykins> "get the firework guy boy, good boy!"
<DJones> He's already learned, see firework, bite nuts of firework holder, just don't play fetch with them
<daftykins> indeed, they are best buried to hide them from said holder
<daftykins> and the fireworks too
<X98Hacker> daftykins: I will be home soon so get ready to help plz eta 30mins
<daftykins> haha
<daftykins> may wanna address the channel, i might do food shortly
<X98Hacker> Lol sorry but I need your expert knowledge
<X98Hacker> Oam home
<popey> hello X98Hacker
<bigcalm> Good evening peeps :)
<popey> YO!
<popey> how was PHPNW?
<bigcalm> Tiring and great
<bigcalm> Very informative. I want a weekend off now
<arc__> hey
<X98Hacker> Help
<X98Hacker> I can't thether my android to my ubuntu laptop it was worked an hour or 2 ago
<X98Hacker>  hello
<X98Hacker> i need help setting up samba so my mac can access my files on my ubuntu laptop
<daftykins> i'm back after food now
<X98Hacker> hey dafty
<daftykins> so last time we were at you running "sudo smbpasswd <username> -a"
<daftykins> then creating a password the same as your user's one
<X98Hacker> yeap done that
<daftykins> righty-o
<daftykins> has that system been restarted since we edited smb.conf ?
<X98Hacker> :D
<X98Hacker> yes
<daftykins> ok, from the mac you should be able to click Go -> Connector to Server from the Finder
<daftykins> oops *Connect
<X98Hacker> yes
<daftykins> and enter smb://IP of ubuntu system/name of share
<daftykins> it may think about it for a bit, then prompt you asking for a username + password
<X98Hacker> so for me smb://192.168.1.2
<daftykins> yep with /sharename
<X98Hacker> how do i find my share name
<daftykins> it was the text in the square braces [] in my example
<daftykins> [share] i had it as, so /share :D
<X98Hacker> oh so for me /home/arc/test
<daftykins> nope it very specifically is smb://192.168.1.2/share
<X98Hacker> ok so smb://192.168.1.2/share
<daftykins> yep
<X98Hacker> ok now it say invalid password or user name
<X98Hacker> how do i add a user
<daftykins> the user should already be the username of your account on the ubuntu system
<daftykins> when you ran the command i mentioned in the terminal, it should have asked you to create a password by entering it twice
<X98Hacker> kk done connected but when i try to put stuff in it vanishes and is not there
<X98Hacker> i can't see it on the mac but it i can see it on the ubuntu share folder this is very anoying
<X98Hacker> any one got ideas
<X98Hacker> daftykins: any thought on this matter
<daftykins> X98Hacker: how old is your mac? G5 did you say it is?
<daftykins> can you right click refresh in the window view?
<X98Hacker> i belive it is a 2004-2005
<X98Hacker> i refreshed by f5 but no luck :(
<daftykins> no updates for the OS i take it? i'm sure it's some ancient PPC thing
<X98Hacker> yea
<X98Hacker> but it still runs fast
<daftykins> you could google i guess
<daftykins> heh, probably from running out of date software ;)
<X98Hacker> do you know of any mac irc on freenode
<X98Hacker> or osx irc
<daftykins> i can never remember them
<X98Hacker> kk :)
<X98Hacker> i will ask on #ubuntu
<X98Hacker> i will ask on #freenode
<shauno> I believe ppc support ended in 10.5, which was 2007-9.  not that it'll make a huge difference for this, because they never moved samba past <3.2
<daftykins> :D
<shauno> (samba 3.2 onwards is gplv3.  apple are alergic to v3)
<daftykins> if he's still using that mac online it's probably safe purely from security through obscurity :<
<shauno> probably.  as long as he doesn't have flash or java
<daftykins> :D
<shauno> both of which had a spotty history because apple tried to maintain their own builds, until they finally took enough flack for not keeping pace with them
<ball> Oh dear. I just successfully installed a version of Ubuntu that is apparently quite old.
<ball> Wrong disc.
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> 8.x?
 * ball checks
<ball> 10.10, it says here.
<ball> Let's try a different disc.
<ball> brb
<ball> There we go: 13.04.
<ball> ...I notice there's a new launcher/dock thing down the left-hand side of the screen.
<ball> Wow, that new Ubuntu menu thing is irritating.
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> ball: how come you reinstalled so close to a new release coming out?
<ball> daftykins: Is there a new release coming out? I had no idea. The two reasons I installed Ubuntu on this PC are a) our primary desktop PC failed and I don't have the parts to fix it yet and b) It's useful for me to have at least basic familiarity with a popular Linux desktop distribution.
<ball> ...I dragged my daughter's PC into the study, shoved a spare hard disk in it and installed Ubuntu.
<daftykins> :)
<daftykins> yeah it's just 13.04 support drops in January
<ball> I hope I have the other PC repaired before then.
<ball> It gave me a good excuse to blow the cobwebs out of this one, double the RAM and reclaim my 500G SATA drive from it.
<daftykins> :)
<daftykins> how does 13.04 feel on it?
<ball> Snappy enough, though I haven't tried playing video yet.
<ball> Let's give YouTube a go.
<ball> Full-screen is a bit much but it plays well enough in the window.
<ball> Did I mention this machine has a dual-core 1.6 GHz Atom chip?
<daftykins> oh wow
<daftykins> so a glorified calculator
<ball> It's more powerful than some of my other PCs.
<ball> ;-)
<daftykins> D:
<ball> ...besides, if I put an SSD in it performance would probably be "adequate" ;-)
<daftykins> sounds like you have a collection like penguin42
<daftykins> yeah they definitely take the edge off
<ball> Besides, for basic Web browsing this is sufficient.
<daftykins> yeah
<ball> My own PC has one less core, albeit clocked a bit faster
<ball> cpu0 at mainbus0 apid 0: AMD Athlon(TM) XP 2800+, id 0x6a0
<ball> ...and half the RAM at 1Gbyte.
<ball> This one's maxed out at 2G
<daftykins> :) i leave my parents dealing with an Athlon XP
<ball> My mother has no use for a desktop PC, though her brother recently set her up with an Android tablet of some sort.
<ball> Alright.  I have to get changed now to climb into the attic.
<ball> Oh that's wierd: Firefox doesn't seem to have a Minimise button.
<ball> (or "iconify")
<ball> ...bute rminal does.
<ball> but Terminal does*
<ball> ...so that's an inconsistency.
<daftykins> they appear when you hover over the top, no?
<ball> No.
<daftykins> ah. i don't even use desktop Linux in fairness
<ball> daftykins: Do you use it mostly for servers?
<daftykins> yeah
<ball> Do you use Ubuntu for that?
<daftykins> yep, typing from a server VM right now :)
<ball> Last time I tries Ubuntu Server I was completely lost. At least one of my customers uses it though so I should probably look at that too at some point.
<daftykins> yeah if you're happy at the command line, it's good
<daftykins> i set myself the task of creating a webserver running wordpress long ago, it's pretty good fun
<ball> brb
#ubuntu-uk 2014-09-29
<Myrtti> morn
<Myrtti> we was thinking about Friday
<Myrtti> would anyone be interested in a friendly boardgames moment instead of hitting the drink?
<Myrtti> we can bring a few games over.
<Myrtti> Tsuro and maybe Nuns on the Run, even though dsample thinks latter might be too complicated
<czajkowski> Myrtti: ohhh you at Oggcamp ?
<diplo> Morning all
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Monday, and happy International Coffee Day! :-D
<foobarry> compiling bash from source for suse 10.1 :S
<JamesTait> I remember having to compile stuff from source.  I was using Slackware when I started, but it couldn't be called Slackware after a while, I'd recompiled pretty much everything.
<popey> Morning all.
<directhex> cancelled my orange contract \o/
<foobarry> going giffgaff?
<directhex> three.
<Myrtti> czajkowski: yup
<popey> Myrtti: I'd be up for some games. I have "Cards agsinst Humanity" and "We didn't playtest this at all" which are both fun
<Myrtti> werewolf might be nice too, I've never played it. We were thinking of what games we'd want to have at the wedding last night and werewolf came to mind.
<Myrtti> that and obviously boardgames
<foobarry> this game is fun http://www.amazon.co.uk/Saboteur-Path-Laying-Card-Game/dp/B000IQC4N2/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&qid=1411980286&sr=8-8&keywords=saboteur
<directhex> rent a Guitar Hero rig!
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<foobarry> i don't think there's a single person in teh office who isn't sick atm
<brobostigon> :(
<popey> sam is off sick today
<popey> benefit of working from home, can look after them
<directhex> i can't parent and work at the same time
<popey> sam is 8
<popey> he's mostly self sufficient
<foobarry> my boy has started calling playing on the tablet "tablet skills"
<foobarry> in an attempt to make it sound more educational
<popey> hah
<foobarry> this is the effect of attending school for one whole week
<christel> haha
<JamesTait> foobarry, is it "skills", though, or "skillz"? :-P
<MartijnVdS> sk1llz
<JamesTait> I feel there should be an eleven in there.
<MartijnVdS> sk111z?
<MartijnVdS> sk!11z!
<JamesTait> \o/
<JamesTait> Man, that looks sick!
<JamesTait> *ahem*
<JamesTait> Sorry.
<MartijnVdS> I wonder what is asking for my password *after* login. Twice.
<MartijnVdS> because it takes some kind of lock on input devices? and I think it's confusing compiz
<foobarry> he's 4 so skills hopefully
<dutchie> re oggcamp board games: there is a v good board game cafe in ox (Myrtti popey czajkowski)
<dutchie> called thirsty meeples
<Myrtti> reviews are a bit mixed atleast on Google
<dutchie> i've not been myself but loads of friends have
<Myrtti> anyway, either way we're game(!) - we've got plenty of games we can bring so staying at the Oxford isn't impossible either if people prefer that way
<Myrtti> apropos something, where do people buy their laserjet cartridges for home printers?
<foobarry> amazon marketplace
<foobarry> cheap copies
<foobarry> or ebay
<foobarry> need to root my moto g. adverts are everywhere on my phone
<zmoylan-pi> wait till you get a smart watch :-)
 * brobostigon hugs his pebble.
<foobarry> stroke pebble surely?
<Laney> skim it
<foobarry> after rooting you can't get OTA updates ?
<foobarry> meh
<foobarry> unlocking bootlader requires wiping the device??
<foobarry> meh^2
<brobostigon> unlocking doesnt require wiping the device, unlocking DOES wipe the device.
<zmoylan-pi> probably best that way, a nicked device gets wiped as they unlock it
<brobostigon> it doesnt strickly wipe the device either, its just resets everything back to factory state.
<foobarry> are there any adblockers that don't require root?
<ali1234> yeah, adblock+
<foobarry> i tried that and it failed to work at all
<ali1234> then you didn't read the installation instructions
<ali1234> you don't just install it
<ali1234> you have to set it up as well
<ali1234> it operates as a proxy
<ali1234> so you have to configure android to use it
<foobarry> ah thanks,
 * brobostigon is watching george osborne patting himself on the back, for being an idiot.
<foobarry> ali1234: assume it works for all apps?
<foobarry> (if you are using it)
<ali1234> it works for all apps that use a proxy
<ali1234> which is most apps
<ali1234> all browsers obviously
 * awilkins got a provider-less MotoG for the offspring
<awilkins> No ads!
<awilkins> Huzzah
<foobarry> no ads?
<awilkins> On the no-provider one, yes
<awilkins> Paid Â£130 for it (1st gen)
<foobarry> what ads are you thinking of?
 * brobostigon walks up to the tv and pretends to poke osborne up his nose.
<zmoylan-pi> it's a bit feckin sad when you have to run adblock on a phone
<awilkins> Well, no inbuilt ads
<foobarry> i am thinking of ads in browser and in apps like plume
<brobostigon> yes, i have the 4g version of the 1st gen model, with cm11.
<awilkins> Ads in apps that depend on ads for revenue, I expect so
<awilkins> TBH if you don't like ads in ad-supported apps... use another app.
<awilkins> The app landscape makes me uneasy these days
<awilkins> I find it hard to trust apps, particularly the ones that ask for a smorgasbord of permissions
<awilkins> I liked my N900 better because I knew most of the apps were FOSS
<foobarry> awilkins: paid Â£90
<awilkins> The official Twitter app crossed the line of "creepy" fairly recently
<zmoylan-pi> at least with symbian i could deny an access to certain things always or ask every time.  and that was in 2005
<ali1234> i treat my tablet as entirely compromised and i don't install apps on my phone
<foobarry> wow
<awilkins> Yeah, I feel like that
<zmoylan-pi> i gave up smartphones to get a feature phone a nokia asha 201 and keep a 7" tablet mostly for playing media
<awilkins> I don't let the offspring install apps on her phone until she can justify to me each permission it wants
<directhex> i cancelled my contract earlier today, i have 30 days to get a replacement
<awilkins> I like GiffGaff, but YMMV
<foobarry> android has multi user accounts now
<foobarry> i allow restricted apps for my son
 * zmoylan-pi in ireland uses tescos for phone, last of the prepay services
<awilkins> Is Ireland going all 1984 about phone prepay service?
<zmoylan-pi> all the rest have moved to 'rolling contracts' so your credit disappears if not used
<awilkins> Ew.
<zmoylan-pi> after 15-30 days
<zmoylan-pi> whereas i have made â¬5 of credit last 6 months :-)
<zmoylan-pi> i'm sure as buggery not spending â¬5 ever 2 weeks
<zmoylan-pi> it's the phone companies compensating after eu made them reduce roaming charges i'm guessing
<directhex> awilkins: three is my only option.
<foobarry> does anyone encrypt their android?
<directhex> foobarry: windows phone 8 has a nice 2-user implementation for kids. the lock screen can be swiped onto "kids' corner" which has a different PIN, and only pre-selected apps are usable
<zmoylan-pi> i don't put anything on it i wouldn't use on public terminal
<foobarry> tinfoil hats ahoy
<directhex> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-0TEJMJOhk ?
<foobarry> ali1234: seems i have to configuire proxy for every wifi network i connect to
<ali1234> probably
<foobarry> wonder how much this slows down the phone/eats battery
<ali1234> somewhat
<ali1234> root your phone then?
<foobarry> looks likely
<foobarry> this is really slow
<popey> foobarry: android doesn't do multi-user very well.
<popey> at xda dev con over the weekend I played with some 'new' high end phones. oppo and one plus were nice, but huge
<foobarry> popey: for my use case, it seems ok, which is "make a 4yr old rstricted apps mode"
<ali1234> why is gstreamer so bad?
<Myrtti> is there an English word for metal items that don't become magnetised? I assume that's the metal detection technology used at airports
<awilkins> ferrous
<foobarry> nonferrous metal
<awilkins> Oh, the opposite of that
<awilkins> nonferrous
<ali1234> metal detectors use radio waves
<awilkins> That will detect even nonferrous metals I think
<awilkins> Should detect anything conductive
<awilkins> Maybe a cloak lined with graphene would shield you ...
<Myrtti> why doesn't it pick engagement rings and such, then?
<Myrtti> or is there a critical mass for those
<MartijnVdS> depends on the sensitivity of the sensor?
<ali1234> as i understand it the metal detector is a tuned antenna receiving a fixed frequency signal. the presence of a conductor within the detctor changes the natural frequency of the system, "detuning it" and setting off the detector
<Myrtti> right
<Myrtti> so I've got it like this now in the packing list, then
<Myrtti> Jewellery, watches etc. you plan to wear \footnote{Place your watch and other non-essential jewellery into your coat pocket before the airport security check}
<MartijnVdS> Are you writing a "My first flight" HOWTO?
<awilkins> Probably a document worth updating
<awilkins> My first flight was sometime in the upswing curve of paranoia
<awilkins> But I think it's swung a lot higher since then
<Myrtti> MartijnVdS: some people probably haven't flown that much, some have.
<Myrtti> MartijnVdS: it's just that me and dsample have flown so much in comparison to those who have flown a little.
<Myrtti> there's some tips and tricks that you learn in that
<Myrtti> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1bh64fUnSjeaI8BerUdWkRkqhcULHawp5v-vX9LNRuB0/edit?usp=sharing
<awilkins> Didn't fly until my 4th decade on earth. Have about 2 or 3 return flights under belt
<awilkins> Not overly enthusiastic about adding to that number
<awilkins> Enjoyed the little Brazilian turboprop more than the big gets
<awilkins> jets
<awilkins> Ooh, 'buntuFone is RTM
<Myrtti> had to fiddle with LaTeX margins a bit because I forgot the printer has it's own numbers...
<diddledan> awilkins: rtm? nice
<foobarry> i haven't flown in nearly 10 yrs
<diddledan> I haven't flown
<foobarry> diddledan: wins
<diddledan> well I say haven't - I did when I was little and beyond my memory point
<foobarry> or decision making
<MartijnVdS> your memory event horizon?
<foobarry> diddledan: are you based in the states?
<diddledan> nope
<foobarry> hmm.. one of the dans is
<diddledan> I'm in amazingstoke
<diddledan> or doughnut city
<MartijnVdS> Basingstoke. One of the few English place names I know. Thanks, H2G2
<diddledan> :-)
<foobarry> guildford, islington
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: yes those too. Though Islington I also know from Neverwhere :)
<foobarry> and fenchurch st station
<MartijnVdS> yeah bot that one comes up waaay later
<MartijnVdS> the Basingstoke roundabout is in the first episode of the radio thing :)
<brobostigon> anyone know of a way, to push something like a pushover message, to android, when a process and or service dies on my ubuntu/debian server?
<ali1234> email?
<brobostigon> so i write alittle python script, that monitors said process, and calls something like ppine to send me an email, when said process is no longer running?
<Azelphur> brobostigon: I MADE THIS FOR YOU https://github.com/azelphur/pyPushBullet
<Azelphur> well I didn't really, but it suits your use case exactly.
<ali1234> hot cool aid reference?
<Azelphur> ali1234: yes :P
<brobostigon> thank you Azelphur
<Azelphur> yw
<ali1234> you could also use nagios
<ali1234> if you can figure out how
<Azelphur> brobostigon: not pushover but PushBullet which is similar (just free) and it's a python lib or command line tool
<ali1234> why is pushbullet better than sending an email?
<brobostigon> Azelphur: i see, let me work out how to work with it.
<Azelphur> ali1234: has nicer OS integration (you can push links and stuff) and you can do delivery/read confirmation and other such fun things
<ali1234> does it show incoming calls on linux desktop?
<Azelphur> and you can trigger tasker actions from pushbullet too
<Azelphur> ali1234: huh?
<ali1234> https://www.pushbullet.com/img/frontpage/mirror-calls.png
<ali1234> does that work on linux?
<Azelphur> oh, that's cool, no it doesn't do that, however you could write something like that using my library and tasker.
<Azelphur> ali1234: but there is stuff that does that already on Linux
<ali1234> yeah, for KDE
<Azelphur> nope, for all platforms
<ali1234> i want to see an indicator message telling me who is calling me without having to go and get my phone
<Azelphur> https://code.google.com/p/android-notifier/
<brobostigon> it seems, i had pushbullet already bookmarked in the play store.
<Azelphur> brobostigon: yea, pushbullet is very nice API wise
<brobostigon> Azelphur: cool, i must have looked at it before. it looks interesting, yes.
<Azelphur> lemme know if you have any problems with it :)
<brobostigon> i will, :)
<Azelphur> brobostigon: if you have tasker it can trigger on pushbullet messages too, I have my phone ring rather than just play a notification tone on certain events
<brobostigon> i do have tasker, yes. ah, cool. :)
<foobarry> trying to call the council. i think they all went home
<popey> 4pm, sounds plausible
<daftykins> that reminds me, i was going to call the gov. today
<daftykins> the States of Guernsey that is (:
<diddledan> daftykins: do you have a white house on the island? :-p
<diddledan> and does the queen live there?
<daftykins> yes!
<diddledan> \o/
<diddledan> speaking of the queen. I'm still waiting for the invite to an intimate candlelight supper with the queen.
<daftykins> did you request one?
<diddledan> someone of my stature doesn't stoop to such lows as requesting things.
<daftykins> yay my bigv VPS is up to date
<daftykins> just handled a post-wedding rename on a wordpress site also
<diddledan> I'm working on a governmental communications platform update
<diddledan> stupid shellshock
<daftykins> :(
<diddledan> whoever invented computer security should be shot
<diddledan> :-p
<daftykins> lol
<daftykins> *insecurity
<diddledan> nono, security. it's the keeping things secure that takes all the effort
<diddledan> I'd much rather just let the haxx0rs at it and not care two hoots
<diddledan> but that's not the "secure" way of working
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> have you banished gentoo from whence it came, yet?
<diddledan> some eejit sat in an office someplace decided that haxx0rs getting into our systems is inherently a bad idea and thus formed "information security practices"
<diddledan> I wish
<diddledan> it wouldn't be a problem if we weren't running gentoo :-p
<diddledan> this channel's namesake has a funky "unattended upgrades" package which we can leave in the background and magically not care about patching ever again
<daftykins> ;)
<daftykins> bigcalm: it was yourself with an 840 EVO SSD, no? http://anandtech.com/show/8570/firmware-update-to-fix-the-samsung-ssd-840-evo-read-performance-bug-coming-on-october-15th
<diddledan> patchy bashy
<diddledan> this is going to drag on
<diddledan> and on
<daftykins> diddledan: is there yet another one :(
<diddledan> daftykins: haven't finished the first patch-cycle yet :-p
<daftykins> oh of your org?
<diddledan> yeah
<diddledan> still got another 9 gentoo to go
<daftykins> >_<
<daftykins> is this down to how awkward it is to be able to fiddle?
<diddledan> no, it's more down to the fact that the gentoo systems we run are woefully outdated
<diddledan> they haven't been properly maintained
<daftykins> is it not still a case of being able to just 'emerge bash' or whatever the gentoo speak is?
<daftykins> or can it not change on its' own 0o
#ubuntu-uk 2014-09-30
<diddledan> yes, technically it's a simple emerge bash - but I'm trying to take the problem as incitement to fix more than just bash - there are many security advisories relevant to various softwares installed
<daftykins> ah ofc
<diddledan> I'm trying to get to a point where we can use binary packages but the hurdle is getting everything in a suitable state for that to be useful
<daftykins> ah to prevent max loading the machines at every build time?
<diddledan> yeah
<diddledan> and drastically reduce upgrade cycle duration
<diddledan> binary packages install in a fraction of time compared to compiling everything
<daftykins> *nod*
<daftykins> have any of the compiles failed / resulted in a failed config?
<lxf_> have a problem with 12.04
<daftykins> ok?
<daftykins> ask away with detail
<diddledan> yeah, it's a very hands-on process to get things updated with sanity
<lxf_> the network icon has dissapeared from the main menu
<lxf_> how do i get it back?
<diddledan> the simplest way is to reboot
<lxf_> have done that still no icon
<daftykins> isn't there some right click add to panel malarkey? or is that another DE 0o
<diddledan> daftykins: that's gnome
<daftykins> or... checking nm-applet is installed? dunno :D
<diddledan> daftykins: the network "icon" is nm-applet embedded into the "tray"
<diddledan> yeah that
<lxf_> but the network is connected to wireless
<daftykins> lxf_: sudo apt-get install --reinstall nm-applet
<lxf_> lxf@brianb-M7X0SU:~$ sudo apt-get install --reinstall nm-applet
<lxf_> [sudo] password for lxf:
<lxf_> Reading package lists... Done
<lxf_> Building dependency tree
<lxf_> Reading state information... Done
<lxf_> E: Unable to locate package nm-applet
<lxf_> thats what i get
<daftykins> sec
<diddledan> lxf_: the pacakge is network-manager-gnome
<daftykins> ah my glamorous assistant has provided the answer
<diddledan> I had to apt-file it
<diddledan> which involved installing apt-file to begin with :-p
<daftykins> if we had the bot we could !find nm-applet
<diddledan> oh!
<diddledan> that would be sensible
<daftykins> i was about to query the one from #ubuntu
<diddledan> I wonder what idiot thought that being able to find packages easily with a single command would be helpful?!
<diddledan> honestly, they make it too easy these days :-p
<lxf_> do i have to reinstall the network-manager?
<daftykins> run what i said, substituting nm-applet for network-manager-gnome
<lxf_> i have run that in the terminal
<lxf_> as you said
<daftykins> log out and in, or reboot again
<lxf_> ok
<daftykins> i think he'll be back.
<daftykins> unity reset would be the next idea methinks
<lxf_> have rebooted still no icon
<daftykins> unity reset time
<daftykins> lxf_: https://www.liberiangeek.net/2012/10/reset-unity-in-ubuntu-12-04-precise-pangolin/
<lxf_> lxf@brianb-M7X0SU:~$ apt-get nm-applet
<lxf_> E: Invalid operation nm-applet
<lxf_> lxf@brianb-M7X0SU:~$
<lxf_> do you suggest i reset unity
<daftykins> yep that's the topic of my link
<lxf_> is Compiz part of unity?
<daftykins> it's all the graphical effects
<daftykins> the window compositor, i guess
<lxf_> thats not the 3d cube effect?
<daftykins> did you follow it yet?
<lxf_> yes and i used the restart cmd for unity in the term still no icon
<daftykins> ok i give up
<daftykins> test the guest account
<lxf_> ok thanks for you help
<daftykins> there's also the main #ubuntu in case anyone there has further ideas
<daftykins> seems there are no good volunteers in there this evening though
<lxf_> the guess accont is the same no network icon
<lxf_> what would happen if i reinstalled the network manager?
<lxf_> is there anyway to edit the main menu?
<daftykins> i gave up 'cause i have no further ideas
<lxf_> ok thanks
<daftykins> ask in #ubuntu, i see one good volunteer now
<lxf_> ok thanks
<diddledan> I need to sleep
<diddledan> but.. patching
<daftykins> :D do you get paid overtime though :(
<diddledan> yeah, I'm on an hourly
<daftykins> day-um
<daftykins> i need to go to bed, i keep getting up too late to get ready and go places to do work
<daftykins> though it's not been a month since i got out of hospital yet
<Bosch-Vivv> Pure angst I canny have a goat mug ;( https://twitter.com/shopcocomori/status/516675822199918592
<Myrtti> moin
<czajkowski> aloha
<selinuxium> morning  o/
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<knightwise> hey everyone
<brobostigon> morning knightwise
<knightwise> hey brobostigon
<knightwise> how are you doing today
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy International Translation Day! :-D
<brobostigon> not bad at all, and you?
<brobostigon> morning JamesTait
<JamesTait> brobostigon, o/
<knightwise> in that case "Een goeiemorgen allemaal"
<zmoylan-pi> and remember to craunch a marmoset on international translation day :-)
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<bigcalm> daftykins: It was me, ta for the link
<brobostigon> morning bigcalm
<bigcalm> o/
<brobostigon> o/
<DGJones> grrs, I wish people would stop rehashing old phone leaks and come up with something definitive for Nexus 6
<bigcalm> The Philip K. Dick estate authorised the use of the name?
<zmoylan-pi> i thought they mentioned on twit that they weren't going to use the name nexus 6
<zmoylan-pi> as they were the 'bad' guys
<directhex> they weren't bad, they were top of the range!
<bigcalm> The battery life will be horrible
<zmoylan-pi> apart from the whole kill people thing
<directhex> they just had a strong sense of self preservation, that's all
<directhex> i suggest not bend-testing a nexus 6
<bigcalm> Ha
<zmoylan-pi> susan calvin would not approve
<directhex> rumours are that the nexus x (6) will be a monster-sized phone. 5.5" class
<directhex> was in carphone whorehouse today, wife had a chance to see the new iphones. she ranted about the iphone 6 bieng too big for her hand, so i handed her an iphone 6+
<zmoylan-pi> and then used immortal line, 'it looks like you've lost weight' :-p
<DGJones> I keep seeing 2 different sizes for the Nexus 6/X, either 5.2" or 5.9"
<DGJones> If its the larger, I think that will be too big for what is a "phone" at the end of day
<zmoylan-pi> if you use public transport the larger size is excellent, if you drive the smaller i reckon
<awilkins> I think Android L will breathe new life into older phones because of the new execution model
<awilkins> My Nexus 4 may gain another few years of useful service life
<dutchie> i need a replacement for my nexus 5
<dutchie> it had a little accident on a night out a few months ago
<awilkins> :-(
<awilkins> This is one reason I keep a Motorola RAZR in my sock drawer
<directhex> i have a shortlist of 3 for my new phone
<awilkins> Stag night? RAZR.
<awilkins> Metal casing. Indestructible. If it gets lost or stolen I don't care.
<awilkins> directhex, What's the shortlist?
<directhex> iphone 6, galaxy alpha, xperia z3 compact
<DGJones> zmoylan-pi: I always have a 7" tablet with me anyway so I don't really want something that big as that as phone, but I do want something with a decent sized screen, mostly looking at Galaxy S5, HTC One M8, LG G3, but new nexus will come into it if its a 5.2" screen
<awilkins> Mine would probably be  i) Nexus 5  ii) Whatever that Chinese superphone was iii) Nexus 6
<awilkins> iv) UbuntuFone
<awilkins> Maybe I'll try UbuntuFone on my Nexus 4
<directhex> i have 29 days to sign a new contract
<awilkins> Is your usage heavy?
<directhex> yes, but not by choice
<directhex> my cancelled contract has 750M of data, which i get through reliably. with no video, no app updates or installations
<directhex> that was "no, not by choice" i.e. "i wish i could view video on my mobile"
<foobarry> just web browsing?
<awilkins> Oh, so heavy data but not voice?
<directhex> reddit & twitter
<directhex> who uses voice, in 2014?
<foobarry> wowzer
<awilkins> Wowzer indeed
<foobarry> thats a lot of imgurs
<awilkins> I use twitter a lot and rarely top 250MB
<awilkins> But I don't download a lot of bitmaps outside of wifi
<awilkins> So : I pay Â£10 a month for 1GB data
<awilkins> (and view the unlimited texts and 500 minutes of voice as a trivial but useful bonus)
<directhex> i also need to use my phone in the USA
<awilkins> Often?
<foobarry> i quit rediit
<awilkins> Worth getting a USA SIM card for?
<directhex> couple of times a year
<directhex> for Â£15 a month, three will give me unlimited data in the UK and 25G in the USA.
<awilkins> That's in the realms of OK
<foobarry> i got addicted during my baby's early days while i sat in the nursery at 2am cuddling her to sleep
<directhex> 25G of roaming data, on orange, is Â£0.2 million
<foobarry> but managed to go cold turkey
<awilkins> Contract phone or buy yourself and shove a SIM?
<directhex> awilkins: leaning towards the latter
<directhex> awilkins: but not until i fondle a z3c in real life
<awilkins> directhex, Yeah, that's what I did with the Nexus 4
<foobarry> now i can just dip in once a week on r/modelmakers
<awilkins> directhex, If your phone is reasonably priced it's deffo the way to go
<directhex> awilkins: not always. a smart man does 2-year TCO calculations
<awilkins> directhex, And they said "BUY A PHONE" to me :P
<awilkins> Spreadsheets were used
<directhex> e.g. it's about Â£50 cheaper to buy a galaxy alpha on a three contract, than to buy it sim-free and get a sim-only contract, both with unlimited data
<directhex> whereas it's about Â£300 more, for the iphone 6
<directhex> (i also have spreadsheets)
<directhex> z3c prices are not confirmed yet
<directhex> they're Â£350 if you shop around
<foobarry> what do premium phones offer over Â£150 moto g with LTE and microsim slot
<awilkins> Bendability?
<foobarry> serious qu.
<awilkins> Not sure anything
<awilkins> Offspring has a Moto G (1st gen) 16GB
<awilkins> I think it was a pretty good buy
<DGJones> directhex: Did you see this article at the weekend about best deals on mobiles? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-29377064
<directhex> foobarry: 4.8ghz.
<zmoylan-pi> bragging factor?  i can't think of any real benefit but i'm biased as i use a feature phone these days and i'm thinking of dropping even that
<directhex> foobarry: and double the RAM
<foobarry> for games?
<directhex> foobarry: waterproofing
<foobarry> the premium phones don't sound 3x better
<thedistance|COM> JamesTait, Nom nom at the vehiclecentre.co.uk. Worth having a goodreads.com ; http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/0241954304/
<thedistance|COM> The 'lexical pointer' that just popped out is "conventional solution".
<thedistance|COM> tty Back on the road for the Home of Oxford Instruments :) {or- on ze rot}pg50Line2 [GBP'4.22]
<Myrtti> that's random...
<awilkins> Is that some kind of spambot?
<directhex> foobarry: generally speaking, "premium" products aren't better on a linear scale. a Â£400 graphics card is not twice as fast as a Â£200 graphics card. a Â£40,000 car is not "twice as good" as a Â£20,000 car. the cost of marginal improvement goes up and up and up
<awilkins> Looks like it's just digested the channel log and sporked together a plausible post with an Amazon link in it
<directhex> foobarry: the moto G is unusually good value, but it's not a linear scale
<directhex> you can get a surprisingly good mobile for under a hundred quid. and you can buy a Kia quite cheap too. how much better than a Kia is a BMW? they both have 4 wheels and an engine, both go from A to B fine. Kias aren't bad, they're good.
<awilkins> I have a Skoda for much the same reason
<awilkins> It's a Volkswagen in all but name, really
<directhex> yeah, that happens. chevy volt is about 5 grand cheaper than vauxhall ampera
<directhex> and most small chevies are daewoo under the badge
<awilkins> I had a Matiz before they were bought out
<awilkins> 796cc of raw throbbing POWER
<awilkins> Not one, not two, but THREE cylinders.
<awilkins> Served me 13 years before it became apparent it was eating front wheel bearings faster than I wanted to pay for them
<awilkins> Cost me Â£8500 for the top end model with air-con and a rear spoiler
<zmoylan-pi> you'd got your moneys worth though by that point
<awilkins> Oh, definitely
<awilkins> Cheap to insure, cheap to run
<awilkins> I have a Citigo now
<foobarry> my neighbour has a dacia
<foobarry> cheapest car out there i think
<zmoylan-pi> that indian tata never made it to the uk?
<dutchie> zmoylan-pi: you'd probably still save money shipping one over
<directhex> zmoylan-pi: i think there are safety issues making it hard to sell in europe
<zmoylan-pi> they allow mopeds to be sold :-p
<zmoylan-pi> and the peel 50 was sold in the uk which had less safety features
<directhex> fewer
<directhex> i don't think euro NCAP was a thing when the peel 50 was sold
<zmoylan-pi> true true, though you'd love to see their faces if they had to test it now :-)
<knightwise> afternoon peeps
<popey> yo
<knightwise> hey popey :) how are you doin
<popey> tickety boo!
<knightwise> good to hear
<knightwise> hya daubers
 * knightwise almost had a little bit of a fit..
<knightwise> almost bought a chromebook
<knightwise> I recovered just in time :)
<popey> i hear a fair number of linux people buy them and immediately wipe chrome off, or dual-boot it with real linux distros
<knightwise>  popey Thought about doing that too.
<popey> i did too
<popey> then I bought a thinkpad x61s second hand on ebay
<knightwise> what chromebook did you try popey  ?
<popey> i havent
<foobarry> don't get a samsung
<knightwise> ah. you got the x61 .. happy with it ?
<popey> yes
<popey> very
<popey> 60 quid
<popey> chucked more ram in it, and a new battery
<knightwise> SSD also helps a hellovalot
<knightwise> hey everyone
<knightwise> does anyone have any idea why my ubuntu 14.04 won't install any extra repositories ?
<brobostigon> i was just going to make a suggestion, oh well.
<dogmatic69> is it possible to have a 'folder' on the unity bar?
<dogmatic69> running out of space on there, prefer it to not scroll
<ali1234> not really no
#ubuntu-uk 2014-10-01
<MiningForMac> hello?
<MiningForMac> anyone here?
<zmoylan-2i> yes
<MiningForMac> I have a VERY specific ubuntu question
<zmoylan-pi> can
<MiningForMac> and i can't find the answer anywhere
<zmoylan-pi> can't hurt to try
<MiningForMac> Is there a way to empty a windows recycle bin through a bootable ubuntu flash drive?
<daftykins> when does that scenario even come up?
<MiningForMac> In a TV Production class where your tricaster is lagging incredibly because you have 300+ gigs in the recycle bin
<MiningForMac> but you can't access it because the computer crashes every time you exit the program
<MiningForMac> and the program opens on startup
<MiningForMac> I was thinking of booting into safe mode and trying it that way, but I'm not sure if that'd work
<zmoylan-pi> press shift while starting windows prevents windows loading programs iirc
<MiningForMac> ...
<MiningForMac> is this really a thing?
<MiningForMac> I've never heard of this
<MiningForMac> oh my god
<zmoylan-pi> i used it in windows 3 :-) i'll check to see if it still works :-)
<MiningForMac> I think you've solved all my problems
<MiningForMac> I just checked, it works on XP
<MiningForMac> also, just in general, should I start using ubuntu as my daily OS? Like is it worth getting into?
<zmoylan-pi> this is why i hate gui's a lot of the otions are invisible unless you know the secret combo
<MiningForMac> or are is there a better starting linux distro?
<zmoylan-pi> well we might be biased here a smidge :-D
<MiningForMac> lol
<MiningForMac> what advantages would I get from using it?
<MiningForMac> like why Ubuntu > Windows?
<zmoylan-pi> security is better, runs on cheaper hardware, more sane software
<MiningForMac> hmm I see
<daftykins> MiningForMac: never... ever set software to autorun.
<MiningForMac> but with everything running natively on windows nowadays, are those pros really worth it?
<MiningForMac> I don't, my teacher did
<daftykins> educate him or her ;)
<MiningForMac> the only reason we have it is to stream our morning announcements
<zmoylan-pi> yes, i get to decide what runs on my system and when.
<MiningForMac> it outputs to a tv channel only within the school and an internet stream
<MiningForMac> hmm, that does seem mighty nice
<MiningForMac> I always see ubuntu and want to get into it, but see no point in doing so
<MiningForMac> like I get that it's a LOT more customizable and secure
<daftykins> runs on cheaper hardware? that might be true of xubuntu or lubuntu but hasn't been true of ubuntu for years.
<MiningForMac> and it seems great
<zmoylan-pi> buy a rasp pi and learn linux without having to risk a parents laptop and they're cheap.  also robotics are good on the pi
<MiningForMac> but idk, I have no reason to switch from windows, although I want a reason
<MiningForMac> hmm
<MiningForMac> that might be a good idea actually
<zmoylan-pi> i'm now looking at getting my second pi to build a netbook/pda :-)
<daftykins> nn
<daftykins> happy October \o
<zmoylan-pi> let the christmas adverts commence
<daftykins> so glad i don't use broadcast TV
<zmoylan-pi> i ended up with my first tv in years as i had no hdmi monitor to connect to so i connected it to scart tv :-)
<zmoylan-pi> the rasp pi that is
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<SuperMatt> morning
<brobostigon> morning SuperMatt
<SuperMatt> so, I was in Italy for the last week. Shellshock?
<Myrtti> moin
<brobostigon> moin Myrtti
<brobostigon> SuperMatt: everything more or less, fixed and patched up.
<SuperMatt> but I don't know what it did or how it worked
<Myrtti> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f51yPfhQZn8
<foobarry> SuperMatt: you probably owe your colleagues a beer
<SuperMatt> probably
<SuperMatt> but lots of people on my team were out when heartbleed struck, so I got my own back this time
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Vegetarian Day! :-D
<jpds> SuperMatt: Why were you in a trench in Italy?
<SuperMatt> hardly in a trench
<SuperMatt> https://plus.google.com/u/0/104760950939866700163/posts/56ekTv3dsyB?pid=6065149204656318674&oid=104760950939866700163
<diplo> Opening your link crashed my Xorg SuperMatt :D
 * diplo is trying again
<diplo> ah so it was trying to scroll around a panorama :/
<ali1234> who wants a Â£35 xbox voucher code?
<davmor2> JamesTait: Yay I love Vegetarians, mind you I like them most with roast potatoes, peas, yorkshire puddings and gravy
<JamesTait> Me too, davmor2, as long as they're of the bovine variety. ;)
<davmor2> JamesTait: :)
 * zmoylan-pi hogs the bacon
<davmor2> JamesTait: I don't mind bacon sandwiches either but I understand their omnivores
<davmor2> they're even
<davmor2> JamesTait: and stuff vegetarian at christmas is a must
<zmoylan-pi> pigs turn rubbish into nicest of meats
<davmor2> stuffed
<JamesTait> I took some bacon out of the freezer this morning, so I can have bacon sandwiches for lunch.
<popey> ali1234: my son probably would. he never has enough minecraft skins â»
<foobarry> i need to learn how to microwave bacon
<popey> Today I learned http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Velology
<zmoylan-pi> microwave bacon is ok in a pinch but it's not the same
<Seeker`> foobarry: why not use a frying pan?
<Seeker`> popey: seems a little late to start a collection :P
<zmoylan-pi> because the last time he tried to microwave a frying pan it got smoky :-p
 * Seeker` sighs at zmoylan-pi 
 * zmoylan-pi grins at Seeker` 
<popey> heh
<Seeker`> popey: hows things?
<popey> great
<popey> see this? https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/2040419302/matchstick-the-streaming-stick-built-on-firefox-os
<Seeker`> popey: chromecast without the chrome?
<foobarry> i like grilled bacon best
<foobarry> wondered if microwave bacon tasted any different
<foobarry> fried bacon requires too much washing up
<dutchie> foobarry: i agree
<dutchie> microwave bacon is ok
<Seeker`> foobarry: ah. I see you're missing someone to do washing up for you :P
<dutchie> but you can't get it crispy ime
<Seeker`> which probably also means you don't have anyone to cook bacon for you either :(
<ujjain> If you have bupa private health care, can't you use NHS things anymore or you can? Because I think bupa care is free at my job.
<diplo> yeah you can still use NHS
<diplo> As you will still pay your National insurance even though you pay for private
<popey> of course you can, yes.
<zmoylan-pi> only the freshest leeches will be used :-p
<Azelphur> popey: I noticed you added me on steam, but under my alt account I use for catching cheaters, I added you on my main one :)
<popey> heh
<ujjain> ah ok, I'll just sign up for that then.
<Azelphur> I think I broke uplink, I started playing yesterday morning, I got the bare essentials, hacked every single bank account in the game, cleaned out the ones with any money in them, fast forwarded through the story line, put all the money I stole on the stock market, I now have 30 million credits :P
<directhex> ujjain: bupa don't offer comprehensive care, so you *can't* use them for most things
 * directhex catches Azelphur, locks him up
<Azelphur> hehe
<Azelphur> directhex: I'm thinking about cleaning out every single account in the game regardless of value, just to see what the news says.
<ujjain> so the only good ething about bupa is that I can go to a private hospital for the ENT doctor? not even sure about that
<ujjain> I had an operation on my ear 18 months ago, better care ewould be better I guess,
<popey> you can also skip queues for ops if needed
<popey> and maybe get private rooms
<awilkins> ujjain, My perception is that private has 2 advantages  i) nicer accommodation  ii) shorter queues
<ujjain> ah wow, that's nothing, only good if you are operated on
<awilkins> ujjain, But aside from that, you'll be treated by NHS doctors, often in NHS facilities
<ujjain> shorter queues for everything, right?
<ujjain> ah right
<popey> shorter queues can be beneficial to some
<popey> also, you may get drugs that aren't available on nhs
<ujjain> although queues are quite crappy on NHS, but I had a doctor only working on fridays, and on holiday for a month and they told me I couldn't switch doctors either, argh
<awilkins> The key phrase is that it's "affecting your ability to work"
<ujjain> ah nice popey
<ujjain> so like cocaine?
<popey> lolz
<awilkins> Cocaine is available on NHS! It's routinely used in opthalmic surgery.
<ujjain> and they might pay for more boots drugs, right?
<ujjain> instead of paying yourself?
<popey> like expensive treatments that the NHS can't afford or choose not to use
<ujjain> yeah, right
<ujjain> I heard bupa paid 2k to people so they would use NHS instead of them for operation
<popey> i haven't had to go private for anything so far in my life and I'm 42.
<popey> perhaps in 20 years that might be different
 * awilkins likewise
<ujjain> and you have paid monthly for many years something like 50-100 per month?
<awilkins> My only operation involving an anaesthetic has been my wisdom teeth which I needed out in my early 30s
<directhex> i got bupa to pay for physio when my shoulder hurt
<awilkins> I waited 6 weeks for the op, which I didn't think too onerous (although they were really ruining my ability to work)
<awilkins> I have a new job and if they offer me private healthcare I will seriously think about turning it down, just on the grounds that I think it harms the NHS
 * awilkins has worked for the NHS much of his working life
<awilkins> That said, if the Tory plan to destroy the NHS comes to fruition, I am not so stupid as to cut off my nose to spite my face
<awilkins> popey, I think the opposite is true in some cases about expensive treatment - BUPA don't want to foot the bill for complex and uncommon surgeries and will defer the cases to the NHS
<popey> ujjain: i dont have private health care, never have
<awilkins> Private health companies in general want the common, predictable, assembly-line medicine they can make a sure profit margin on
<ujjain> ah right.
<popey> ujjain: but you can on-demand go private for some things
<ujjain> yeah, I've heard, they given you a better price if you say you have no privatea health insurance and have to pay yourself
<popey> e.g. my father in law has back surgery, he went private for that
<awilkins> ujjain, In the case of the USA, you'd best be prepared to negotiate (and that's one of the major roles your insurer fills)
<ujjain> US seems like a nightmare when it comes to costs of health care and education.
<awilkins> Yes, it is. By design, I feel.
<awilkins> http://www.uta.edu/faculty/story/2311/Misc/2013,2,26,MedicalCostsDemandAndGreed.pdf
<christel> the NHS is brilliant.
<awilkins> There have been many enormous protest marches in the last few years over what the incumbent government has done to the NHS
<awilkins> Sadly you don't see them reported on in mainstream media
<awilkins> I was at one in Manchester last year. Oxford road (if you know it) was nothing but a sea of banners from the heart of the city, through the university district, down to the park near the Royal Infirmary.
<christel> i've had surgery on the NHS and i've had surgery at a private hospital as a private patient -- bar being given a drug menu for postoperative analgesics i can't say that the quality of care was in any way or form better when i went private
<awilkins> Over 50,000 people by the police count
<awilkins> They gave that protest a 2 minute slot on the local news, and shot the crowd across a narrow street from a low angle to make it look like a mothers meeting.
<ujjain> A lot of people truly love the NHS, but I haven't been that impressed by my GP and hospital, they ignore phone calls always.
<awilkins> Having worked on the clinical side - they are doing their best with what they have.
<awilkins> What they have, sadly, has been greatly curtailed by the government.
<christel> ujjain: as in, your calls are not being answered or you do not receive a call back?
<ujjain> lnot being answered
<ujjain> i have to try 5 times a day
<ujjain> for days
<ujjain> at least the GP is close to my house, 50 meters and waiting time is <30min, so pretty acceptable still
<ujjain> just the phone communication bothers me, and 2 month queue for ent appointment
<christel> *nod* yeah, i find with my GP surgery i have to make sure to call within a specific window in the early morning if i want to get through/make an appointment, etc.
<christel> sorry you're having to wait so long to see an ENT specialist
<ujjain> yeah, 5 weeks until hospital processed the referreal
<christel> the only thing that really grates at me is how slow it takes to get medical records from surgery a to surgery b when moving!
<ujjain> then another 5-6 weeks, etc.
<christel> (i moved from surrey to somerset in march -- my GP has still not received a copy of my medical records from my previous GP surgery)
<ujjain> ah yeah
<ujjain> in holland my GP lost it, :p
<ujjain> so it's not a just UK thing haha :p
<christel> haha
<ujjain> Can you withdraw from your pension? I'm thinking of adding 5% of my income to my pension, as it's taxed 40% right now anyway, just wondering if I could withdraw some if I needed, even if it'd cost 40%
<Myrtti> I've no idea how things work in here but nothing stops you from using different investment/savings instruments...
<ujjain> If you break these rules you'll be charged 55 per cent tax. And if you don't tell us about it in good time, you may have to pay penalties on top.
<ujjain> Even if you've reached 55 there are still rules as to how you can take your pension pot without being liable to a tax charge.
<ujjain> uh,
<Myrtti> I'm in Finnish taxation and national insurance so I'm still using my Finnish accounts and savings methods.
<Myrtti> I'm putting 90â¬ on voluntary pension scheme a month, and 75â¬ each to two different investment funds a month
<Myrtti> aforementioned I can't touch
<ujjain> ah right.
<Myrtti> but things are probably different in UK.
<daftykins> excuse me i appear to have stepped into #finance-advice instead of #ubuntu-uk...
<daftykins> hang on a minute O_O
<christel> :o
<directhex> isn't linux cool! you can compile kernels!
<popey> That's what I like about this channel. Discussion of Ubuntu is almost never topic of the day.
<daftykins> :D
<Guest3848> finance advice is standard acceptable chat
<Guest3848> what
<daftykins> yeah i get tired of the nazi like regime in #ubuntu :/
<Guest3848> who is guest
<popey> er
<popey> now now.
<Guest3848> christ who stole my nick
<popey> lets not equate irc to systematic destruction of people
<daftykins> :P
<popey> and to be fair you can be somewhat grumpy in there
<daftykins> haha, yes, very true
<daftykins> last night there was a bot/troll that joined in both #ubuntu asking for when the new version would be out - and in #xbmc at the same time asking the same
<arsenip> i can't handle the ubuntu chan
<arsenip> :<
<daftykins> it's a wonder that there are people out there who actually find nothing better to do than to waste time like that
<Myrtti> I could, but I haven't wanted to for months
<daftykins> i still like to help but the idiot critical mass gets too much at times
<christel> welcome to the internet :s
<arsenip> i caiv enever been one for rigid rules from opers :p
<Myrtti> I had to stop when I couldn't tell which side of the triangle had the most idiots.
<daftykins> arsenip: ;)
<Myrtti> arsenip: opers or ops?
<arsenip> ops
<arsenip> :)
<Myrtti> I still have sympathies for everyone in #ubuntu
<Myrtti> I just can't do it right now.
<arsenip> now to figure out how to get my nick back
<arsenip> pretty sure it's protected
<Myrtti> in fact, this is the only Ubuntu channel I can withstand at the moment.
<christel> i like your current nick
<christel> it makes me smile
<daftykins> XD
<daftykins> it was all about arsensen
<daftykins> totally has nothing to do with me having come up with it all those years ago :P
<arsenip> tbh Myrtti - most heavily technical channels i find have similar stalin'esque regimes controlling them
<arsenip> parsenip, daftykins
<arsenip> :D
<Myrtti> arsenip: if they're as big as #ubuntu, I can't see how they could even be anything else
<arsenip> why is it - when i forget to log in to nickserv - it happily forces me to change my nick
<arsenip> but when someone steals my nick ... noooo nickserv nowhere to be seen
<Myrtti> not going to detail how different ops enforce the rules
<Myrtti> but still
<diplo> christel, you're in Somerset now ?
<daftykins> arsenip: XD
<christel> diplo: yesss!
<arsenip> Myrtti  - ive never been one to subscribe to IRC hierarchy, i still work on the assumption irc is like IRL
<christel> i'm in the chew valley, surrounded by cows
<christel> (quite literally surrounded by cows)
<diplo> Where abouts? If you .. beat me
<diplo> :D
<christel> moved to a teeeny little village called compton dano
<daftykins> christel: i bet they're not even Guernsey golds
<christel> dando*
<christel> absolutely LOVE it here
<foobarry> #ubuntu is a motorway, #ubuntu-uk is a country lane
<arsenip> ^
<diplo> Ah I know it! Not toooo far away
<christel> we should beer!
<diplo> Sounds good, I'm in Trowbridge, just the other side of Bath
<christel> :D
<daftykins> i had my first pint last night since the hospital ;_; that is to say, being in hospital... they didn't have a bar at the hospital
<Myrtti> foobarry: I've not had it explained better
<christel> daftykins: i wish they had bars at hoospitals
<Myrtti> applause to you.
<christel> i'd go there a lot more!
<daftykins> XD
 * foobarry bows
<daftykins> "another tumble down the stairs christel? very well here's your booze delivery for breakfast"
<diplo> Why have you moved christel ? Work ?
<arsenip> i doth not understandings. Apparently i'm always arsenip. makes no sensing to me.
<arsenip> brainfart.
<arsenip> i think most non-serious injuries would dissapear if ther were a bar in hospital A&E's
<christel> diplo: i work from home so i took work with me -- gareth is from bristol originally so we decided to head back to the west country to be closer to family before david started school :)
<daftykins> some of my friends over here are still using the old ADSL2+ service that's only 16/0.75Mb - i went to look at ones setup last night, where the router said it was only syncing at 8Mb
<daftykins> hilariously they had two routers networked together by cable, so you got online only if the primary one connected to the DSL service responded quicker to the DHCP request
<daftykins> quickly killed DHCP on the second once i worked out what was going on :D
<daftykins> then i took to the half-speed situation, firmware updates... current: v1.02.xx - new: v2.02.xx
<daftykins> 8Mb turned into 13Mb with 2 minutes effort \o/
<diplo> Ah nice, better schools here than down in the SE :D
<christel> diplo: he's going to marksbury which is brilliant :)
<christel> so i am chuffed with that!
<diplo> Just down the road for you then
<christel> yeah, not at all far -- they even do a compton dando mini-bus service so we don't even have to drop/collect, he gets picked up on the doorstep
<christel> and he absolutely LOVES school (fingers crossed he continues to love it for some time seeing how he's got another 12 years to go!)
<diplo> Blimey great service! How old is he now, last time I saw him was at popeys BBQ
<christel> 4 and a half! just started reception :)
<daftykins> cor i don't envy anyone starting the grind right over
<arsenip> its less of a grind at 4yo :p
<christel> https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xap1/v/t1.0-9/10646741_10152651497210937_3153305172141467762_n.jpg?oh=2af3b7353b953a1f9f96f8d14e1896c3&oe=54CF0FDD&__gda__=1418241160_e1a3514256e041e4fe227ad080c6103d first day of school, waiting for the bus in the morning! :)
<christel> diplo: how old are your boys now? :)
<popey> awwww
<diplo> Harry is 6 and Tom just turned 8 on Sunday
<diplo> God he's changed!
<christel> i know! he is growing up so fast!
 * diplo doesn't do very well on photos, see if I can find my kiddos
<diplo> https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xap1/v/t1.0-9/10509479_628989883863606_4386114759863573979_n.jpg?oh=18b94b0834b61d445c173d14e5a2a913&oe=54C666C0&__gda__=1421275420_ac2ad2bee6e436717dcf5c698ef0318b
<diplo> That's Thomas
<christel> AWW :D
<arsenip> oh how times are terrible
<arsenip> i'd feel wrong for opening a link of someone elses kids
<arsenip> just because its a computer
<arsenip> goddamn mainstream media.
<diplo> https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfa1/v/t1.0-9/251806_316855118410419_39672016_n.jpg?oh=8730aa2b125b47cb79c07de5ac09cc92&oe=54C182B1&__gda__=1421268856_f824e45e28d62b79ab72d5648437ade0
<diplo> :D
<daftykins> arsenip: i understand what you mean, strange isn't it
<arsenip> yep
<diplo> That was last year, I can't find uploaded copies
<christel> oh they are lovely :D
<arsenip> kids are awesome
<arsenip> especially 3-6yo
<diplo> daftykins, arsenip : Image this, I'm a single dad and quite often I can have up to 12-15 kids come round my house to play, majority of them girls
<arsenip> under 3 = crying, over 7 = bratty
<diplo> I'm pretrified most of the times
<arsenip> lol diplo
<directhex> blurg
<arsenip> you should be able to apply for a "please dont investigate me" license
<diplo> Not of the kids, more of the young girls in a house with a male
<daftykins> diplo: you must be gold to single mums ;) *ahem* anyway enough of that
<diplo> So each time a 'new friend' turns up I go to the parents house and let them know who I am, give them mobile and everything and text them to let them know their kids are with me
<daftykins> diplo: that's very wise
<christel> arsenip: you should meet my daughter! she doesn't do crying -- she does a lot of GRINNING LIKE A MANIAC and shouting (happily) loudly
<christel> admittedly i do suspect she might be a bit simple
<diplo> I'm much more easy going than all the other parents it seems, so my house is like a magnet to kids
<christel> because i am sure she isnt supposed to be so bloody cheerful all the time
<daftykins> christel: d'aww, a little hellraiser in the budding
<christel> https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfa1/v/t1.0-9/251806_316855118410419_39672016_n.jpg?oh=8730aa2b125b47cb79c07de5ac09cc92&oe=54C182B1&__gda__=1421268856_f824e45e28d62b79ab72d5648437ade0
<arsenip> lol made me laugh christel
<arsenip> sounds like a good kid to have.
<Myrtti> christel: time to consider getting a shotgun, then
<christel> she has just worked out that whole walking thing -- i fear my life is about to become much more complicated!
<christel> :)
<daftykins> christel: you need to start plotting your productivity on a graph
<diplo> christel : +1 - I always say to parents you shouldn't really wish them to walk
<diplo> Your life will become even more hard :D
<davmor2> christel: no that is what prison cell ermmm play pens are there for ;)
<christel> david was quite easygoing (he was careful) at her age ... she is just complete and utterly insane
<christel> i can't turn my back on her for two seconds as stuff like https://scontent-b-lhr.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xap1/v/t1.0-9/10487574_10152515257690937_9029092255154474954_n.jpg?oh=f72a0fb6265c119a840470211e66e2ad&oe=548878C6 happens
<daftykins> :O
<daftykins> my cat is plenty responsibility for me
<christel> hehe
<diddledan> https://twitter.com/Channel4News/status/517266067614621696
<diddledan> morning
<daftykins> XD
<daftykins> that was not checked.
 * awilkins laughs
<awilkins> Also : genuis (some foul language) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YBumQHPAeU
<diddledan> awilkins: funny
<Laney> I just absent mindedly cleaned my teeth and didn't realise I was doing it until spitting at the end
<daftykins> surely you noticed with the whole bathroom walk? 0o
<arsenip> gotta love morning autopilot.
<Laney> I went to wash my hands after using the loo and then ended up cleaning my teeth too
<diddledan> seriously offtopic, but the windows 10 reveal is in video on youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NfveyXCsiA8&feature=youtu.be&list=UUVGOyzms_XJNk_DHqrffXCw
<Seeker`> diddledan: yeah, we've just had a short interlude about brushing teeth, and then you think that something OS-related is seriously offtopic? :P
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> it seems ms are mirroring apple with os X vs windows 10 - os x was the last major release with multiple incrementals since and that's what ms seem to want to do
<diddledan> so that probably means we'll end up with windows 10.10
<diddledan> yosemite :-p
<awilkins> Wow, WIndows 10.10 when we're on Ubuntu 14.10 soon :P
<awilkins> COME TO THE PURPLE SIDE, WINDOWS GUYS
<arsenip> purple?
<diddledan> orange, surely?
<arsenip> windows users can move to mac or ubuntu really
<awilkins> Really?
<awilkins> I thought it had all gone purple
<arsenip> i'm personally of the opinion that ubuntu isnt very suited to enterprise, but maybe thats just me
<directhex> aubergine.
<directhex> announcing new Enterprise SteamOS!
<directhex> control your access rights with Steam Groups, the smart person's alternative to Active Directory!
<awilkins> arsenip, I've of the opinion that "Enterprise" is harmful for my personal productivity, maybe that's just me :-)
<arsenip> for home use - definitely awilkins
<awilkins> arsenip, Not just home, I use it for work, and get far more done than I would using the standard issue OS
<arsenip> ah yes - but do you use it standalone at work, or part of any 'enterprise' services?
<awilkins> arsenip, Standalone but it can consume the enterprise services I need (with a little effort in some cases)
<awilkins> There are some things that I fall back to the Windows laptop for
<arsenip> i dont dissagree, i like ubuntu - dont get me wrong - i am in here :)
<awilkins> Evil things. Things that need IE to work.
<arsenip> but i'd not consider ubuntu outside of desktop/laptop use.
<diddledan> "group policy" invented for enterprises made IS departments think they needed to lock everything down
<awilkins> We run a few servers on it
<arsenip> or 'home server' via ubuntu server
<awilkins> These servers are typically the happiest and least-touchy ones
<diddledan> "ooh, we can make people change their passwords regularly? let's set that to hourly!"
<awilkins> The windows ones get rebooted all the time and periodically broken by ICT (who are their overlords)
<awilkins> The Ubuntu ones they won't touch in case they catch Linux Cooties.
<awilkins> They have much better uptime.
<diddledan> oh dear, that's nasty, the linux cooties
<diddledan> you can't get rid of them easily
<diddledan> once the genie is out it's very difficult to lock-down again
<awilkins> My new employer has seen fit to order me a laptop and a bunch of Windows productivity software
<diddledan> \o/
<diddledan> yey?
<arsenip> i have a work mac, and i does what i wants with it :D
<awilkins> They asked if I wanted anything else to put on it
<directhex> i have no windows license for work
<awilkins> I said "Linux" ... :P
<arsenip> i couldnt ever use windows for anything other than gaming now
<arsenip> :/
<awilkins> Yeah, that's my primary use for Windows
<awilkins> The gaming is even creeping into the Linux though
<foobarry> hardly touched win at work or home in 10yrs now
<diddledan> unfortunately I like to use photoshop to generate assets from designs made by our designers - it's easier for me to pull them out myself at times
<awilkins> Have Neverwinter Nights installed on my "house" laptop and it runs fine even on the Intel chip
<arsenip> i need some more steam mac games
<arsenip> for when im travelling
<awilkins> If it was my setup I'd probably keep a Windows VM
<arsenip> understandable, there's always something that demands windows
<awilkins> One happy advantage being that you could move it between hardware without it complaining about licensing...
<arsenip> usually some crappy software.
<awilkins> I have a WinXP VM just for VB6
<diddledan> VB6! \o/
<arsenip> :(
<awilkins> VB6 is a PITA to set up and configure to be good
<awilkins> ish
<diddledan> VB6 was awesome
<diddledan> it's fugly now tho
<awilkins> I've still only ever managed to get integrated debugging with ASP / VBScript working once, and man, was that some dark voodoo
<diddledan> I remember making VB6 CGI apps
<awilkins> Main advantage to VB6 was that with a few choice libraries you could knock out a GUI app really quickly
<awilkins> Which still holds true for C# and other .NET langs I suppose
<diddledan> yeah, c# and vb.net are quite nice, actually
<awilkins> The GUI dev toolkits for most things are a total joke
<arsenip> usually
<awilkins> MS correctly got with the program and did a GUI toolkit that works well with version control
<awilkins> ie code-behind files for .NET forms
<arsenip> i find large hardware manufacturers tend to build management software that relies on windows and/or IE
<awilkins> Everyone else is still scrabbling to make a GUI dev toolkit that actually works well
<awilkins> arsenip, Ick, yes. We had some IBM servers that the management GUI for the lights-out card only works on IE
<awilkins> And a particular version of IE
<awilkins> When you've downloaded the right DLLs
<arsenip> :)
<arsenip> exactly.
<diddledan> IE6 is common pre-req for enterprise web apps
<directhex> vb.net is evil and wrong.
<awilkins> Our cheif sysadmin keeps a VM just for that tool
<awilkins> VB.NET is evil and wrong and I refused to learn it
<awilkins> It's almost but not entirely unlike VB6
<directhex> vb6 is eviler and wronger
<arsenip> i had a VM for the same for a fujitsu infrastructure management tool
<awilkins> Yeah, but VB6 will be the COBOL of our generation
<arsenip> though i did a naughty and deleted it from my PC when i left
<arsenip> though they deserved it.
<awilkins> If I wipe out my VB6 knowledge with VB.NET I'm doing myself out of my retirement fund
<awilkins> I'm seriously contemplating just doing a full crypto wipe of my work-issue laptop when I leave
<awilkins> They'll re-image it anyway
<awilkins> Ever since I discovered they were MITM attacking all our SSL I stopped using any kind of personal account on it
<awilkins> They're running all our VoIP through a freaking SIGINT program as well
<awilkins> And all our internal phones are VoIP
<daftykins> this is clever http://xkcd.com/1427/
<awilkins> I don't work for GCHQ or any other kind of high-security agency
<daftykins> awilkins: why are they doing that?
<awilkins> daftykins, I have no idea WHY
<daftykins> surely one would demand answers from an employer
<awilkins> I just know they ARE because we get the ICT changelogs and they are moaning about not being able to copy the data to the right SAN node
<awilkins> So I looked up the product name (curious as to why they needed to retain a load of VoIP data)
<awilkins> We asked about the MITM on the SSL
<awilkins> We created a support ticketc for it
<awilkins> It just got closed, no comments
<arsenip> awilkins  - i had the same in my last role
<arsenip> MITM ssl via <wahtever the california named firewall company is called - i forget>
<arsenip> palo alto networks.
<awilkins> (it was breaking some of our tools because they check certificates and the root CA list didn't have their mickey-mouse self-signed one in it)
<awilkins> WebSense?
<awilkins> Even when we leave the building, the laptop is configured to send traffic through their servers
<arsenip> heh nice.
<awilkins> The firewall is also configured to block EVERYTHING
<arsenip> palo alto does SSL/SSH decrypt
<arsenip> i noticed one day
<arsenip> because a 'senior' sysadmin from our umbrella corp (who basically only existed to provide us internet..) told me he knew i was on IRC talking about buying a bicycle
<daftykins> >_<
<arsenip> so i set the motd on my dedi server to "<my company name> IT dept sucks d***" :)
<arsenip> every time i log in...
<daftykins> \o/
<arsenip> makkes me laugh anyway.
<arsenip> idiots.
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> sucking dogs, eh?
<diddledan> :-p
<arsenip> not like they can complain about what it says - they shouldnt me monitoring it.
<diddledan> yeah, we've got enough problems with GCHQ and NSA and various other countries' agencies
<diddledan> now please bare with me while I use google
<diddledan> :-p
<diddledan> am I hypocrite? yes, yes I am
<diddledan> damn j00 nsa/gchq - google? have all my things
<foobarry> bare with you? take our clothes off?
<diddledan> if you like
<diddledan> only make sure you take some explicit photos for icloud
<foobarry> done
<diddledan> now tell me how to hack icloud?
<foobarry> you want to see a naked foobarry ?
<diddledan> not me, but surely someone somewhere on the net does?
<daftykins> good lord man, think of the children that might inadvertently see this conversation!
<foobarry> they might be able to help
<daftykins> ;)
<diddledan> like Jennifer Lawrence
<diddledan> it's in the public interest
<diddledan> speaking of which, did the mirror publish the photo that the tory mp took of his tackle and sent to their reporter?
<diddledan> I think if a random woman started talking to me inciting me to send her a n0rty picture I'd rather do it via googley hand-outs
<diddledan> that way she has to be responsive via video and therefore a real person
<foobarry> she was a swedish model posing as an activist
<diddledan> nope
<foobarry> the rule for 50-something MPs should be that nobody wants to see your bits, don't fall for it
<diddledan> it was a male reporter posing as an activist with a stolen photo of a swedish model
<foobarry> ah, even worse
<foobarry> thats entrapment
<foobarry> ^2
<shauno> I'm alive!
<daftykins> crikey a wild shauno!
<daftykins> shauno: you survived?!
<shauno> barely.  I'm sore in all the places.
<shauno> (granted that's more ryanair than the 2000m climb ..)
<daftykins> shauno: :D
<shauno> good stuff though.  lots of this kinda thing; https://www.dropbox.com/s/re6jkor4xdhfnu1/IMG_2056.JPG
<daftykins> oooh nice
<shauno> although slightly odd when it takes you 9 hours to get up a hill.  and at the top there's an old man in a hut selling soup and beer
<shauno> how does he get the beer up there?  I could barely carry my legs!
<christel> helicopter.
 * christel nods
<daftykins> i rememer trekking in Thailand, i'm slipping around in skate shoes climbing up and down and around these hill sides, then a Burmese guy in just flipflops is following laughing his ass off as i fall on my ass a few times :>
<shauno> apparently the czechs have a bad reputation for that.  heading up the tatry in shorts & sandles, and then costing the slovak state when they need to go haul them down again
<daftykins> erk! yeah planning needed there
<dwatkins> people regularly need to be rescued from Athurs Seat in Edinbrugh because they go up to watch the sunset.
<daftykins> these days i own some proper hiking shoes, they've been good to walk around in whilst i've been recovering from my accident.
<daftykins> dwatkins: lol, then can't see the path down?
<dwatkins> It's a great big volcanic plug near the city centre, you don't want to be climbing down it in the dark.
<dwatkins> or perhaps a craig, I forget which
<shauno> I've thought about that one a few times, but never got around to it.  it seems odd to go to edinburgh and walk *away* from the pubs
<dwatkins> I went for a walk in converse all-stars and slipped over on a rock, it wasn't fun
<daftykins> haha
<daftykins> yeah those are not practical shoes for even road.
<dwatkins> I wasn't expecting to be needing traction.
<daftykins> hehe
<shauno> I am curious why everyone had poles to walk with though.  like skiing sticks, but without the snow.  I'm curious if they help, or if it's just an extra pair of feet to think about
<dwatkins> I've been in places where walking poles would have been useful.
<shauno> I did get odd looks when everyone's out there with their fancy gear and walking sticks and such.  and I'm plodding along with a smoke and a small flask of whisky.
<daftykins> sounds like that nordic walking shenanigans
<daftykins> shauno: lol, love it
<daftykins> i was headed down the Grand Canyon catching up with friends, some old woman at the side said "alright, no need to run!"
<daftykins> s'like, mmkay you're old i'm young, deal with it ;)
<shauno> lol, ouch
<Myrtti> ooh nordic walking
<Myrtti> I wonder where our sticks are
<daftykins> funny fads ;)
<dwatkins> dang, forgot I had someone coming round to quote for a boiler replacement, and I'm still at work
<Laney> get him to kick the door in
<dwatkins> I did consider suggesting he ring my neighbor's doorbell
<zmoylan-pi> the only set of conditions that guarantees they'll be on time :-p
<dwatkins> yeah, the best way to get through to some companies for support is to call the sales line
<shauno> I think the trick with ours is to call on days they're closed.  the out-of-hours guys are bored and loney, and you might be the first person they got to talk to all day
<davmor2> Myrtti: sticks are on the trees they need them more than you ;)
<daftykins> btw i still have an invite if anyone wants to buy a http://oneplus.net/
<Myrtti> daftykins: have they fixed the privacy leak yet?
<daftykins> have who the what?
<Myrtti> davmor2: mine are carbon fiber
<Myrtti> davmor2: https://forums.oneplus.net/threads/security-breach.129297/
<Myrtti> oh, looks like they have
<daftykins> dwatkins: replacing mine cost me Â£2,000 \o/ gas boiler
<daftykins> Myrtti: nothing major then
<dwatkins> daftykins: yeah, I'm expecting that ballpark as I need to have a drain pipe fitted to mine
<dwatkins> also, I need to put in a hatch to the attic
<daftykins> best thing i did for my house since moving in, the existing one was going between lukewarm and cold for the shower
<zmoylan-pi> or a rasp pi with camera and robotic arm :-)
<shauno> a really big robotic arm that lifts you into the attic!
<zmoylan-pi> no just a small arm to do the jobs you'd need the hatch to climb in for.  the first scutter
<dwatkins> come to think of it, this boiler quote guy called me last week to arrange an appointment, then called me this Tuesday having realised he'd made the entry in his calendar a week later than I had
<zmoylan-pi> he was using the gregorian calender? :-)
<dwatkins> haha, maybe
<dwatkins> wouldn't that be 5 days out?
<zmoylan-pi> 13 days https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gregorian_calendar#Difference_between_Gregorian_and_Julian_calendar_dates
<dwatkins> ah ok, not a week
<dwatkins> anyway, I should go home now my meeting's over, toodles!
<ujjain> hey, Cameron is from the conversatives, right?
<MartijnVdS> yes
<ujjain> he has such a nice voice in his music video, I hope one day to have lost my Dutch accent and talk like that
<MartijnVdS> ujjain: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8lmb9m4-tw
<ujjain> haha, I meant https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YBumQHPAeU&feature=youtu.be, but that one seems awesome too, let me see
<MartijnVdS> ujjain: I know but that one reminded me of the one I posted ;)
<DJones> Heh, Nick Griffin has been kicked out of the BNP
<DJones> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-29453341
<MartijnVdS> DJones: isn't that the guy from Family Guy?
<DJones> MartijnVdS: Never watched that, but if the character was offensive, racist & generally unpleasent, the probably
<DJones> s/the/then/
<MartijnVdS> DJones: apparently that character is "Peter Griffin"
<MartijnVdS> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Griffin
 * diddledan laughs familyguy style
<ujjain> UKIP said they are not as racist as the Dutch PVV
<foobarry> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-29448058
<foobarry> \o/
<foobarry> also...seen this? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-29410999
<ali1234> not really very interesting
<ali1234> all the different CPU architectures are very... what you might call "typecast"
<ali1234> in the sense that everyone "knows" x86 is for desktops, arm is for phones, mips is for routers... etc
<ali1234> ARM trying to get into IoT is like intel trying to make x86 phones
<ali1234> or ARM servers for that matter
<foobarry> ARM seem ideal for "things"
<zmoylan-pi> low power? go arm
<MartijnVdS> or mips
<zmoylan-pi> needs to run cool? go arm
<ali1234> AVR will destroy any of them
<ali1234> if you want low power / low heat
<ali1234> also much cheaper, and don't need an OS
<MartijnVdS> my Hue Bridge runs "FreeRTOS"
<MartijnVdS> on some kind of STMicro
<MartijnVdS> (I think)
<ali1234> STM do ARM chips and they have their own CPU arch too
<MartijnVdS> http://www.st.com/web/catalog/mmc/FM141/SC1169/SS1575/LN9/PF250182?sc=internet/mcu/product/250182.jsp
<MartijnVdS> So... ARM :)
<ali1234> yeah
<ali1234> the thing about the cortex M chips is they have a powerful ARM core combined with the memory and peripherals you'd find in a microcontroller
<ali1234> which is completely pointless
<MartijnVdS> why?
<ali1234> i mean how much processing power does your smart-toilet actually need?
<MartijnVdS> well.. depends on how big the thing you drop in there is
<zmoylan-pi> your toilet might be doing a massive core dump... :-p
<MartijnVdS> zmoylan-pi: yeah but you could just flush its buffers
<zmoylan-pi> and a smart-toilet is perfect for water cooling
<ali1234> basically those chips are jack-of-all-trades
#ubuntu-uk 2014-10-02
<MartijnVdS> popey: I guess you're on utopic ;)
<MartijnVdS> popey: do you see https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gcr/+bug/1376571 ?
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 1376571 in gcr (Ubuntu) "After login, gcr-prompter pops up several times in a row, never accepting my passwords" [Undecided,New]
<popey> yes
<popey> i only see one prompt
<MartijnVdS> I see one at a time
<MartijnVdS> but I get several in a row
<zmoylan-pi> .w6
<Myrtti> is there a command in 12.04 that I can use to log out of the session and get to the lightdm login screen?
<zmoylan-pi> is the lightdm not an option at default login screen?
<Myrtti> not a keyboard shortcut - magic sysrq doesn't work on this laptop
<Myrtti> zmoylan-pi: the problem is that I can move the cursor but I can't select anything
<zmoylan-pi> i usually have 2-3 wm installed and they're on a drop down list
<Myrtti> I'm in this Unity session and thought just logging out and back in would help, but I can't figure out how to do that
<MartijnVdS> ctrl+alt+f1, kill the main session process, profit/
<davmor2> Morning all
<Myrtti> >___< can't click any links in my browser
<Myrtti> ah, pressing control reveals that Unity thinks the cursor is somewhere it's not
<Myrtti> chrissake
<Myrtti> sudo service lightdm restart
<Myrtti> there we go...
<davmor2> Myrtti: what did you do
<Myrtti> I've no idea.
<foobarry> oh dear, stephen fry being silly again
<zmoylan-pi> instructing the masses to worship steve jobs?
<davmor2> Todays song is Emili Sande Read All About It part III for some reason
<foobarry> claiming that his cocaine addiction affected nobody but himself
<davmor2> where is slacker boy Tait with what day it is.
<zmoylan-pi> him blowing his money, true.  but also financing criminals so does affect others
<foobarry> big time
<foobarry> anyway,
<foobarry> does wake on lan get configged in teh bios or the settign is enabled via a driver?
<zmoylan-pi> i seem to remember that wake on lan was mentioned in bios
<zmoylan-pi> never used it mind
<popey> bios
<zmoylan-pi> and it's about time. http://www.theguardian.com/money/2014/oct/02/printers-refillable-tanks-revolution-home-printing
<zmoylan-pi> of course it would be a few weeks after i bought a new printer :-)
<Myrtti> we'll get our ink from PC world this time
<Myrtti> did a search on Amazon for a laserjet toner and I decided that I'm not willing to bet my wedding information leaflets on cheap toner that might break the MFP we're really fond of
<zmoylan-pi> well lasers are cheaper than inkjets anyway
<Myrtti> tesco direct came to mind because we have vouchers we never use, but the price difference was about 30 pounds
<zmoylan-pi> that's a whole rasp pi :-)
<Myrtti> zmoylan-pi: it's not that far off in the lower end off the things, that printer was 150-200 and Samsung lists the replacement toner at 125
<Myrtti> cheapest non-brand ones were about 12 pounds, but as I said, not taking the risk this time
<zmoylan-pi> flip, my new brother was â¬80 and a toner is â¬40
<foobarry> popey: looking in some threads it seems some drivers have additional settings to turn it on , on the pcie card
<zmoylan-pi> some of the inkjets i looked at had cartridges near the price of that toner and did far fewer pages
<zmoylan-pi> if it's an add in ethernet then i suspect the wake on lan might have to be on the driver
<Myrtti> zmoylan-pi: http://img1.digitalversus.com/produits/36/4947/36_4947_2.jpg â¥
<Myrtti> (Samsung SCX-4500W)
<zmoylan-pi> my -pony-little workhorse :-) http://support.brother.com/g/b/producttop.aspx?c=gb&lang=en&prod=hl2135w_us_eu_as
<davmor2> Myrtti: I have the older laser jet clp300 I love it
<Myrtti> yeah, we needed a scanner too, hence MFP
<zmoylan-pi> i just use camera phone as scanner.  use a wooden bracket affixed to table with platform at fixed distance below
<zmoylan-pi> since cameras got to 2mp they take a readable photo of a a4 page and the more mp after that the better it gets
<davmor2> Myrtti: yeah the do that in their newer laser printers too now \o/
<popey> Wifeys laptop broke yesterday
<popey> hard disk corruption
<zmoylan-pi> laptop not broke, merely wonky
<popey> well "broke"
<zmoylan-pi> can be dewonked :-p
<popey> yes, but do i want to.
<popey> or just get a new one and do this later
<zmoylan-pi> windows?
<popey> osx
<zmoylan-pi> ah it's iffy.  macs tend to go corrupt as they age and some tiny hardware thing becomes an issue
<zmoylan-pi> you have to know the correct technical terms :-)
<popey> tempted to get her a chromebook
<zmoylan-pi> they do look tempting
<zmoylan-pi> cheap, near disposable, automatically backed up, low maintenance, does the basics
<zmoylan-pi> apart from having to use chrome ::spit::
<zmoylan-pi> but slap cruton on there...
<popey> would use chromeos if it was a chromebook
<popey> or get a pc laptop and put ubuntu on it (I'm not supporting windows)
<popey> or spend loads and get a mac
<zmoylan-pi> apart from paying windows tax which chromeos avoids
<popey> meh
<zmoylan-pi> macs do tend to last even if i do feel they are overpriced
<dwatkins> Windows 10 - keeping up with the Jobs's
<popey> yeah, her mbp has lasted a good few years
<popey> it all went downhill when i upgraded osx
<zmoylan-pi> because too many apps check to see if they
<popey> should put back on it what it came with
<zmoylan-pi> 're running on windows 9*
<popey> and stick an ssd in it
<dwatkins> I already need to upgrade my phone to iOS 8.0.1 for some apps.
<Laney> still using my mid 2010 mbp (with replaced ssd)
<dwatkins> Laney: same here on both counts
<Laney> high five
<zmoylan-pi> my main system is a 4 year old netbook from hp, 1gb of ram, xubuntu runs ok on it
<dwatkins> o/
<popey> i think partly the issue is that she drops it under the sofa
<dwatkins> that reminds me, I booted up my netbook server yesterday
<dwatkins> I hope the fan is ok now
<Laney> ...netbook...server?
<zmoylan-pi> then a lighter system might survive the abuse better ymmv
 * dwatkins types "shotdown" by mistake
<dwatkins> Laney: yeah, it's just been replaced by a Raspberry Pi ;)
<popey> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Crucial-CT256MX100SSD1-256GB-Includes-Spacer/dp/B00KFAGCWK
<popey> thats probably the quick fix
 * zmoylan-pi loves my pi
<popey> or buy myself a 512GB SSD and give her my 256GB one ã
<Laney> it's a good fix
<zmoylan-pi> win win popey :-)
<Laney> would have had to bin it without the SSD upgrade
<popey> yes, this is a plan!
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<dwatkins> yeah, I pushed the boat out and got a 1TB SSD
<dwatkins> should be good for a while
<Laney> !!!
<Laney> need one of those
<popey> yeah
<zmoylan-pi> i just don't trust sdd... yet.  i'm paranoid about dataloss
<popey> pffft
<popey> backups
<popey> i have had precisely zero SSDs fail
<popey> and lots of rust fail
 * zmoylan-pi waits for the gods of irony to smite popey ;-)
<zmoylan-pi> i'va had hdds fail all the time but i often got warning and enough time to make one last backup
<zmoylan-pi> up to and including keeping a hdd under my jumper for 3 hours to warm it up to loosen the spindle which had seized
<dwatkins> I've had two disks fail in my NAS, should have got disks which were designed for 24/7 operation (or sorted out the options to power them down sooner)
<dwatkins> nowadays my NAS does stuff only a couple times a day, so it's less of a problem.
 * directhex radically alters new PC spec
<popey> now, here's the rub. my laptop has 2xSSD, one is /, one is /home. The /home one is mini pcie.
<popey> I am going to have to do some juggling here to copy /home to new SSD, move / to pcie card..
<popey> and to complicate things they're both luks encrypted
<popey> probably easier to reinstall
<popey> or.... i just get her a nice big SSD for her mac and dont steal the big one for me, causing more work for myself.
<popey> or.... just get her a 256GB one
<dwatkins> If only there was a command which did that, kind of like a TApe Archiving tool...
<dwatkins> oops, Tape ARchiving...
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy World Farm Animals Day! :-D
<popey> i didnt say there weren't tools to do it
<popey> more that it's a balls ache and time consuming to do it
<davmor2> popey: can't you just get a usb caddy and transfer over via that?
<davmor2> JamesTait: you're late with your internet day, shame on you ;)
<davmor2> JamesTait: You're just following up on yesterdays eat the vegetarians day aren't you ;)
<JamesTait> I know, davmor2, I've been busy replying to the latest epic mailing list thread about mailing lists. :)
<davmor2> JamesTait: did you say, we need a mailing list to discuss mailing list problems rather than filling the current mailing list
<JamesTait> davmor2, actually, I replied to the offshoot from the mailing list thread, about document management.
<JamesTait> I'm still formulating my reply to the mailing list thread - but I might include your suggestion. ;)
<popey> davmor2: yes, thats not the issue, its time consuming faff
<davmor2> popey: can't you use fog or ghost or clonezilla?
<popey> sure, again, the tools are not the problem
<popey> anyone here not in the uk or usa?
<davmor2> popey: that shouldn't take as much time as dd for example
<zmoylan-pi> o/ ireland
<popey> zmoylan-pi: if you go to http://eventbrite.com/ do you get redirected to a local site like a .ie variant?
<zmoylan-pi> .ie it is
<popey> it redirects?
<zmoylan-pi> from the link you sent to .ie variant
<popey> ok, ta
<popey> .co.ie, or just eventbrite.ie?
<dwatkins> I'm in Scotland ;)
<popey> denied!
<zmoylan-pi> eventbrite.ie  i don't think ireland was ever big enough to use a .co.ie
<dwatkins> It's not how big your domain is, it's what you do with it...
<awilkins> Yeah, Tuvalu has many more domains than it's size would otherwise suggest...
<zmoylan-pi> made them rich enough to buy submarines for everyone in the country which will come in handy soon :-)
<safiyyah> good morning everyone! I am trying to get ubuntu 14.04 installed. I have had to re-install 12.04 just to get the system running again so I could re-download 14.04. I burnt it onto a DVD (several in fact), and it refuses to mount. I also made a start up USB and it is also not booting#
<SuperMatt> sounds like the iso you downloaded is corrupted
<safiyyah> I do not know what to do now because I need a disk to install the thing, any ideas?
<SuperMatt> but as you have 12.04 installed, you could just run update-manager -d
<safiyyah> I have re-downloaded the iso about 5 times in total
<safiyyah> and re-made the disks
<popey> uh
<popey> you dont need -d to go from 12.04 to 14.04
<davmor2> SuperMatt: this is 12.04 to 14.04 the -d shouldn't be required
<popey> !upgrade
<lubotu3> For upgrading, see the instructions at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UpgradeNotes - see also http://www.ubuntu.com/desktop/get-ubuntu/upgrade
<SuperMatt> popey: I had no idea
<safiyyah> I actually cannot get the DVD to mount at all once it is burnt. EVEN in the 12.04 system. I googled how to mount the drive and nothing is working
<SuperMatt> oh wait
<SuperMatt> I think I did know that
<SuperMatt> maybe I'm just silly
<popey> hehe
<safiyyah> should I ask the software centre to get update and upgrade via there?
<safiyyah> I always do a clean install because am scared of glitches but I really do not know what to do now
<davmor2> safiyyah: no look at the link above
<SuperMatt> so, who wants to play some cs:go or borderlands today?
<davmor2> popey: that first link is incorrect I think
<safiyyah> according to the link for upgrade notes I seem to be in the wrong distro and 12.04 to 14.04 seems like a huge jump?
<davmor2> popey: doesn't lost 12.04-14.04 unless I'm looking at it incorrectly
<davmor2> safiyyah: 12.04 is an lts, 14.04 is an lts they are designed to be upgraded to
<safiyyah> davmor2, why then is the USB stick not being picked up?
<safiyyah> I will be back. Will upgrade via the software centre first
<davmor2> safiyyah: you don't upgrade via software-center
<davmor2> safiyyah: you upgrade via software updater
<safiyyah> davmor2,  yes sorry I mean software updater
<safiyyah> be back, let's see how that goes
<vad3rman1156> anyone read the new copyright law?
<zmoylan-pi> what's ours is ours and what's yours is ours too? :-)
<vad3rman1156> lol
<zmoylan-pi> it's just that any copyright law now might be nullified by the super secret copyright thing they've been hatching for the past few years
<arsenip> i take back everything i said yesterday, here i am installing ubuntu server in 'the enterprise' :D
<Laney> starship?
<Laney> I thought they were a CentOS shop
<zmoylan-pi> i thought they'd run on dos
 * brobostigon laughs quietly.
<Azelphur> I think I beat uplink now >.< https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/3832397/screenshots/2014/Oct/2014-10-02-115649_750x898_scrot.png
<zmoylan-pi> when we started to make a pos system in 90s i wanted to use the russian dos that was used on satellites
<awilkins> That would indeed, be a POS
<zmoylan-pi> solid as a rock, you don't install ms on expensive satellites :-)
<zmoylan-pi> in the end we used dr-dos instead
<safiyyah> okay am back, i am re-downloading 14.04 hoefully it will be a success now
<safiyyah> can someone tell me where my dvd drive is? http://paste.ubuntu.com/8478549/
<safiyyah> davmor2, popey
<safiyyah> is anyone here?
<awilkins> Your drive is probably /dev/dvd
<awilkins> Or /dev/cdrom
<awilkins> Mount will only list file systems that are mounted, not drives
<awilkins> So if there's no media with a valid, mounted, file system in the drive, it won't show up there
<awilkins> On my system my DVD drive is /dev/sr0
<awilkins> And /dev/cdrom is a link to that
<safiyyah> am trying to see the data on the dvd thAat i burned on the iso
<safiyyah> sine all 3 disks don't boot up
<awilkins> Ok...
<awilkins> Did you check the hash of the file
<Azelphur> safiyyah: I'm sure I remember your nick from somewhere :)
<awilkins> (Apologies if someone already asked this with you)
<safiyyah> dev/sr0 hangs the terminal and it isnt the dev/cdrom
<safiyyah> Azelphur, YES! long time no see, I used to come in here alot
<Azelphur> :)
<safiyyah> got busy working , so not in here much anymore, having upgrade issues :(
<safiyyah> awilkins am sorry I do not know what 'the hash of the file' means
<awilkins> safiyyah, OK, so I mean running the file though a cryptographic hash util to check it's integrity
<diplo> Can you use the Optical drive for anything else ? IE is it even being detected by the OS ( don't want to read through everything )
<diplo> Not sure if this is the correct way, but cat /proc/scsi/scsi displays mine
<awilkins> safiyyah, On the download page at http://releases.ubuntu.com/14.04/ , there is a file called SHA1SUMS
<awilkins> If you open a terminal, and run    `sha1sum <the iso file>`, you get a value that should match the corresponding line in SHA1SUMS
<awilkins> If they don't match, your file is corrupted
<safiyyah> awalkins the terminal just hangs
<safiyyah> awilkins,
<safiyyah> http://paste.ubuntu.com/8478774/
<safiyyah> perhaps I entered it wrong
<popey> whats with the arrows?
<popey> sha1sum /home/Downloads/ubuntu-14.04.1-destop-i386.iso
<popey> assuming thats the iso filename
<awilkins> Yeah, when I wrote <the iso file> I mean replace the whole lot (including chevrons)
<awilkins> And without the backticks too
<awilkins> (seriously, one thing I want to see on stackoverload / askubuntu is a wiki markup for annotating command lines)
<awilkins> So you can have pretty labels annotating bits of the command explaining what it does
<safiyyah> popey. awilkins  - http://paste.ubuntu.com/8478989/
<safiyyah> Is that what was supposed to happen?
<safiyyah> Sorry I am also working at the same time
<popey> looks good
<safiyyah> so I am having interruptions
<awilkins> safiyyah, Yes, if you check that against : http://releases.ubuntu.com/14.04/SHA1SUMS
<awilkins> (Sure you want the i386 image? It's a 32-bit machine?)
<safiyyah> awilkins, I installed 64 bit years ago and I found I had to configure everything
<safiyyah> couldn't get skyoe working. Need skype for work!
<awilkins> safiyyah, It's very much less configure-y now. Skype works fine for me... I did have to install a 32-bit version of Firefox and Java to get WebEx working fully though.
<Myrtti> I've used 64-bit for yonks and it works just fine.
<safiyyah> popey, There is a fact I forgot to mention, whenver am burning the disk. It finishes burning then never finishes creating the checksum
<awilkins> But that's unrelated to your problems with getting your CDs to boot
<awilkins> safiyyah, Have you tried USB?
<safiyyah> That may be why I had botched disks?
<safiyyah> awilkins, made the USB several times it is not being picked up on boot
<safiyyah> I have already told the bios to boot up from 'other' first
<awilkins> safiyyah, This is likely more to do with your BIOS settings
<awilkins> Does your BIOS have a hotkey for "Choose boot device" ?
<safiyyah> no I go in and tell it the boot order
<awilkins> e.g. mine invites you to bang F12 to pick a boot device for one-time use
<safiyyah> oh cool, will check if it has that
<awilkins> What are your choices?
<awilkins> Burning a disk or using the USB creator should just work
<awilkins> THey both produce a bootable disk
<safiyyah> my choices are the one of the HDD's, atapi CD drive and other
<zmoylan-pi> and is it or has it ever been a windows 8 uefi device? :-)
<awilkins> Hmm, yes
<awilkins> If you have UEFI, do you have Secure Boot enabled?
 * awilkins has not had to contend with this personally as yet
<zmoylan-pi> lucky
<directhex> totally looking forward to moving to UEFI on my new PC
<awilkins> My motherboard has some kind of EFI but I'm just booting normally
<directhex> everything about BIOS is terrible
<awilkins> BIOS is terrible, but UEFI is worse
<directhex> it really isn't
<awilkins> But prettier
<safiyyah> okay getting interrupted again
<directhex> for most people, it's just different/new
<safiyyah> am going to leave the download for the 64 bit running
<directhex> safiyyah: do you know what the motherboard in the system is?
<safiyyah> I have an Asus
<directhex> roughly from when?
<safiyyah> one of you guys told me to buy it last time my motherboard died... good call whoever that was
<safiyyah> this one has lasted
<awilkins> Hah, I usually sing ASUS praises
<awilkins> I got an Abit once
<awilkins> Never again!
<safiyyah> it's an ASUS P5KPL-AM EPU motherboard
<directhex> abit went bust a decade ago
<awilkins> Presumably because they were rubbish
<safiyyah> well one of you told me to use ASUS motherboards after my old gigabyte died and I think this will be my brand of choice for now
<directhex> okay, that's BIOS not UEFI, so ignore UEFI comments
<safiyyah> I don't know what UEFI is, only BIOS (sorry)
<directhex> BIOS is how computers from the late 1970s boot. UEFI is how computers from the late 1990s boot.
<directhex> almost all motherboards which mention windows 8 on the box are UEFI, windows 7 or lower are BIOS
<safiyyah> well my board is about 3 years old
<directhex> everyone's taken a while to catch up. you're on BIOS (70s-style)
<safiyyah> okay
<safiyyah> right please explain why the iso image burn, gets stuck on checksum?
<safiyyah> image checksum
<safiyyah> never finishes even if you leave it for hours
<safiyyah> should I try another burner am using brasero
<MartijnVdS> maybe your drive is busted?
<safiyyah> I can accept that
<safiyyah> okay we go with the bootable USB,hope it works!
<safiyyah> back to work. be back in an hour to finish this off
<MartijnVdS> good luck
<directhex> awilkins: bootable USB is one example of why UEFI is better ;)
<awilkins> I think my current MOBO has some sort of UEFI but I'm not sure it has SecureBoot
<MartijnVdS> but bios had bootable usb 8-)
<MartijnVdS> (I know I know, mega-hacky)
<directhex> booting from USB requires the same as booting from a hard disk: 448 bytes of 16-bit machine code, at the correct point in the first 512 bytes of the disk blocks
<directhex> on BIOS
<directhex> all BIOS booting is done by having a fully functional 16-bit 8088 implementation inside whatever modern 64-bit CPU you have
<safiyyah> http://www.amazon.co.uk/DVD-RW-Drive-DRW-24F1ST-BLK-AS/dp/B00BZF31UU/ref=sr_1_3?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1412255733&sr=1-3&keywords=cd+drive
<safiyyah> is that a good one?
<directhex> safiyyah: there's not much in it these days. only 2 or 3 companies actually manufacture them
<safiyyah> lol
<safiyyah> okay
<Myrtti> you're not trying to do it to a RW disc, right?
<awilkins> I don't really care anymore... used to think about buying Plextor drives and always settle for cheaper ones. But these days, I just don't care.
<awilkins> I only use optical drives to rip CDs, install software.
<awilkins> And very occasionally burn music for my daughter's dance classes.
<directhex> USB booting for UEFI just involves the right file in the right place (/efi/boot/bootx64.efi) on a FAT formatted USB stick. so the imaging instructions are just "unzip"
<safiyyah> Myrtti,  no a DWD +R
<safiyyah> DVD +R
<MartijnVdS> directhex: does UEFI support exFAT?
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: isn't that what the magic UEFI Boot partition is written in?
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: no that's normal FAT
<MartijnVdS> exFAT is what large SD cards come formatted as
<davmor2> man why don't they just call it thin if it is ex-fat
<awilkins> Short for extra-FAT (or extended FAT)
<shauno> I think the magic partition is 'just' fat because everythign else is some variation of pain.  but the bootloader from there can support whatever it likes (which is fun)
<awilkins> Should call it PORKY
<MartijnVdS> LEAN
<safiyyah> went with the samsung since they  will deliver it tomorrow http://www.amazon.co.uk/Samsung-24x-Retail-SATA-Writer/dp/B00CC6YN6M/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1412256743&sr=8-1&keywords=dvd+drive
<safiyyah> guess I will have to wait until tomorrow to burn the disk
<safiyyah> :(
<dutchie> hrm
<dutchie> am i being dumb, or is there no obvious way to invoke bash interactively with arguments
<dutchie> i.e. the equivalent of "python - a b c", which launches an interactive shell with sys.argv set to ["-", "a", "b", "c"]
<dutchie> aha, -s
<dutchie> ...or not
<dutchie> oh right
<dutchie> bash -s a b c
<directhex> MartijnVdS: exfat isn't part of the UEFI spec at all
<davmor2> popey: can you make this the official oogcamp drinking song https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nzYof5GjhQ8
<popey> I'm tempted not to click that in case it's an earworm
<davmor2> popey: no it's a good one I promise, its the charlie mops beer song from the bard
<popey> http://www.reactiongifs.us/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/dont_believe_you_anchorman.gif
<davmor2> popey: have you listened to it yet?
<popey> nope â»
<popey> too busy listening to https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AqZcYPEszN8
<davmor2> popey: like it :)
<diddledan> how stupid is this marketing? http://www.geforce.co.uk/whats-new/articles/dynamic-super-resolution-instantly-improves-your-games-with-4k-quality-graphics
<zmoylan-pi> if people are dumb enough to buy it and believe it...
<daftykins> it does actually improve image quality
<daftykins> but yeah claiming to make it 4K, lawl
<zmoylan-pi> looks wonderful on my 14" screen :-)
<shauno> just told the tv licence dude to go away :)  now I have the sinking feeling I should look into how much power they think they have here
<daftykins> heh
<daftykins> do you use a TV?
<daftykins> or rather, do you watch broadcast TV? :)
<shauno> yup.  and I have a licence for it.  I just object to being asked to produce it.  my 'filing system' is inefficient enough to make that an offensive waste of my time
<shauno> if their computer can figure out how & when to send me reminders, it can also figure out how & when not to send people to my door
<diddledan> don't they have some sort of databasey thing?
<intrbiz> shauno: your under no obligation to let them into your property
<mia__> does anyone know what I need to do to update my Ubuntu install to the latest I tried the information on the website but my version number is stuck on 13.10
<mia__> I'm running it now
<daftykins> run do-release-upgrade
<mia__> apt-get?
<daftykins> no
<mia__> thanks
<daftykins> "do-release-upgrade"
<mia__> I forgot the release bit
<mia__> Error during update
<mia__> A problem occurred during the update. This is usually some sort of
<mia__> network problem, please check your network connection and retry.
<mia__> W:Failed to fetch
<mia__> http://extras.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/raring/main/source/Sources 404
<mia__> this keeps on happeneing
<mia__> I might not have the extra's repository in my software sources
<mia__> does anyone know how to get it back
<daftykins> you should paste output to us via http://paste.ubuntu.com
<daftykins> never paste to IRC directly, it's annoying
<mia__> I'm sorry
<mia__> newbie
<mia__> I'm not used to IRC
<daftykins> ok that's referring to raring which is 13.04, you said you have 13.10?
<mia__> yes
<daftykins> run "cat /etc/issue" to confirm
<daftykins> you can share the output of that here as it's only one line
<mia__> Ubuntu 13.10 \n \l
<daftykins> that's a pretty confused state. hrmm
<daftykins> well even if you updated that repo to saucy, i think those are gone now
<mia__> I think I accidently deleted the extras software source
<daftykins> can you share your /etc/apt/sources.list via pastebin?
<daftykins> also have a look what you have in /etc/apt/souces.list.d/
<mia__> what am I looking for?
<daftykins> anything pertaining to that extras PPA
<diddledan> I don't think extras is a ppa
<daftykins> well, just a sub type thing
<daftykins> i knew what i meant :D
<mia__> is there a command to paste to pastebin?
<daftykins> well i'd usually say to install pastebinit, but i suspect you can no longer install packages
<mia__> http://paste.ubuntu.com/8480692/
<mia__> ok
<mia__> thanks daftykins for helping out
<daftykins> mia__: have you resolved it yourself, or?
<mia__> no just pleased
<daftykins> heh
<daftykins> were you online the last couple of days? i thought i saw your nickname before
<mia__> maybe I don't think it's registered
<mia__> it might be someone else
<daftykins> mia__: so you can see on line 44 is the problem referring to raring, i'd usually say make a backup but you can remember the simple change made here
<mia__> I'm at a hackspace
<mia__> learning the ropes
<mia__> ok
<mia__> I can do that
<daftykins> oh some kind of event
<mia__> no i'm a member
<daftykins> mia__: i would replace 'raring' in line 44 with 'saucy' then save, and run "sudo apt-get update" again and check or errors (you could pastebin the output of that command too)
<mia__> ok will do
<daftykins> *for errors
<daftykins> sorry my 'f' key is on the way out =|
 * diddledan takes daftykins's f-key out on a date
<daftykins> :D
<zmoylan-pi> that can be really ecking annoying
<daftykins> diddledan: you best bring it back before curfew!
<daftykins> yeah, what's worse is it's my das keyboard mechanical with blue cherry MX switches
<daftykins> Â£Â£Â£ to replace :(
<zmoylan-pi> aren't they supposed to last forever?
<zmoylan-pi> warranty?
<daftykins> it's years old, way out of warranty
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/rpfqi4xz9nxgx5j/AACAxEkpRRGQQnM2Lruz1Sira?dl=0
<daftykins> took it apart for fun, kind of helped, more a placebo though
<zmoylan-pi> not a lifetime warranty?  some of the silly expensive hardware is a bit more flexible
<daftykins> i'd not have a problem  if it were :)
<zmoylan-pi> did you injure a family member who wanted you to fix their windows vista laptop with the keyboard? :-)
<zmoylan-pi> for that you need the ibm modem m :-D
<zmoylan-pi> *model
<daftykins> you wouldn't catch me with a keyboard without super.
<daftykins> i couldn't survive
<daftykins> mia__: how'd it go?
<mia__> it's running now
<daftykins> the apt-get update or the do-release-upgrade ?
<mia__> apt-get update
<mia__> GPG error: http://extras.ubuntu.com saucy Release: The following signatures couldn't be verified because the public key is not available: NO_PUBKEY 16126D3A3E5C1192
<daftykins> hmm that's not particularly a problem
<mia__> ok
<mia__> is that because I deleted the software source
<daftykins> not really
<mia__> everything else is fine
<daftykins> good stuff, try the do-release-upgrade again and see if it complains
<mia__> it seems to be running
<mia__> thanks daftykins
<daftykins> no problem
<diddledan> is "drupling" something undesirable?
<diddledan> if so then I'm currently drupling :-p
<diddledan> and answering a question in #wordpress :-/
<daftykins> O_O
<zmoylan-pi> as long as you insist on using ie6 to view the result :-p
<diddledan> oh god
<diddledan> I think my boss has finally let IE6 go
<zmoylan-pi> yeah i was just wondering what the state of the lightening conductor was around abouts :-)
<Azelphur> some girl just viewed my profile on okcupid, went to look at her profile, "I am looking for a man, who is willing to except me for who I am"...heheh, this goes on my list of most amusing spelling mistakes :P
<ali1234> technically that's a grammar mistake
<Azelphur> true
<Azelphur> amusingly I will except her for who she is...I don't think that's what she had in mind though ;)
<Azelphur> sometimes I get tempted to message some of these profiles with a list of mistakes in their profiles
<shauno> I graded a bosses email for spelling once.  gave him a B-.  from that, I can tell you it doesn't quite work out the way it did in your head
<Azelphur> hahaha
<daftykins> shauno: did you keep your job? :)
<shauno> sure :)
<Azelphur> I told my former boss to "repeat that in English" a few times :P
<diddledan__> just remember: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jkje4FiH9Qc
<diddledan__> that's not a very good video tho
<Azelphur> hehe
<daftykins> i wish this channel had a URL snarfing bot ;)
<diddledan__> snarf!
<diddledan__> you want it to tell you ahead-of-time where you're going?
<daftykins> yip
<diddledan__> gotcha
<daftykins> prevents click regret :)
<daftykins> https://i.imgur.com/NDXnJqe.jpg this amuses and horrifies at the same time
<daftykins> no idea of context, but... it stands alone ok
<diddledan__> err
<Azelphur> daftykins: could easily be done as a ZNC module
<daftykins> that'd cause duplicates
<diddledan__> duplicates?
<daftykins> i'm in channels where bots already grab the document title
#ubuntu-uk 2014-10-03
<diddledan__> there ya go daftykins
<daftykins> mmm?
<daftykins> diddledan__: what's with the underscores? :)
<diddledan__> [01:11:05] 	snarfit (~SnarfIT@saturn.bowlhat.net) joined the channel
<diddledan> better!
<diddledan> I rebooted my router without disconnecting first so I ended up with underscoritis
<diddledan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jkje4FiH9Qc
<snarfit> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jkje4FiH9Qc: Jesus Christ Superstar (1973) - Everything's Alright - YouTube
<diddledan> like?
<diddledan> there's zero throttling
<diddledan> so it could end up flooding
<daftykins> :O
<daftykins> nice work sir
<diddledan> the code is here: https://github.com/diddledan/snarfit
<snarfit> https://github.com/diddledan/snarfit: diddledan/snarfit Â· GitHub
<diddledan> well done, sn
<diddledan> burger
<diddledan> it didn't like that
<daftykins> wow you did something from scratch just for me!
<daftykins> d'aww
<shauno> making it read its own source may have been a little too introspective for it at this time of night
<daftykins> lol
<diddledan> hehe
<daftykins> its' parting message would've been... "...daddy?"
<daftykins> wey-hey, with shauno back it's the late-night trio back in force
<daftykins> :)
<diddledan> why didn't you like https://github.com/diddledan/snarfit snarfit ?
<snarfit> https://github.com/diddledan/snarfit: diddledan/snarfit Â· GitHub
<diddledan> hmm, maybe because I disconnected the terminal?
<shauno> also, personal gripe .. url: desc bugs me.  url - desc means I can still click the url
<diddledan> your client sucks
<diddledan> :-p
<daftykins> :D
<diddledan> hmm, maybe it was an issue with a second url meaning it'll do it when I post http://twitter.com
<snarfit> http://twitter.com: Welcome to Twitter - Login or Sign up
<diddledan> nope
<diddledan> ok, it must have been because I killed the terminal
<diddledan> I killed it myself that time
<diddledan> not a bug!
<diddledan> test: http://twitter.com
<snarfit> http://twitter.com: Welcome to Twitter - Login or Sign up
<diddledan> yey
<diddledan> no crash
<daftykins> \o/
<diddledan> now, what happens when a bug number is posted I wonder?
<diddledan> bug #1
<lubotu3> bug 1 in Ubuntu Malaysia LoCo Team "Microsoft has a majority market share" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1
<snarfit> https://launchpad.net/bugs/1: Bug #1 (liberation) âMicrosoft has a majority market shareâ : Bugs : Ubuntu
<diddledan> maybe I should tell it to ignore lubotu3?
<shauno> and possibly anything that lubotu3 should catch
<shauno> eg, if I link to https://launchpad.net/bugs/1
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 1 in Ubuntu Malaysia LoCo Team "Microsoft has a majority market share" [Critical,In progress]
<shauno> obv. it shouldn't catch the bot there, but I'm not sure it should catch me either
<shauno> personally I'd probably just whitelist it to domains that are known to be 'blobby', like youtube.  but that's not what you asked ;)
<diddledan> bug #1
<lubotu3> bug 1 in Ubuntu Malaysia LoCo Team "Microsoft has a majority market share" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1
<snarfit> https://launchpad.net/bugs/1: Bug #1 (liberation) âMicrosoft has a majority market shareâ : Bugs : Ubuntu
<diddledan> grr
<diddledan> it's supposed to ignore that
<diddledan> bug #1 ?
<lubotu3> bug 1 in Ubuntu Malaysia LoCo Team "Microsoft has a majority market share" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1
<snarfit> https://launchpad.net/bugs/1: Bug #1 (liberation) âMicrosoft has a majority market shareâ : Bugs : Ubuntu
<diddledan> dangit
<diddledan> I give up
<diddledan> it's not hitting either of my two ignore bits
<diddledan> snarf!
<diddledan> bug #1
<lubotu3> bug 1 in Ubuntu Malaysia LoCo Team "Microsoft has a majority market share" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1
<snarfit> https://launchpad.net/bugs/1: Bug #1 (liberation) âMicrosoft has a majority market shareâ : Bugs : Ubuntu
<daftykins> ok i think this das keyboard's controller is gone
<daftykins> this is driving me spare
<diddledan> awww, nooooo
<diddledan> no effin eff?
<daftykins> yeah, sometimes it produces it late so i get "atfer" for after
<diddledan> that's your tyoping
<daftykins> newp :)
<diddledan> bug #1
<lubotu3> bug 1 in Ubuntu Malaysia LoCo Team "Microsoft has a majority market share" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1
<snarfit> https://launchpad.net/bugs/1: Bug #1 (liberation) âMicrosoft has a majority market shareâ : Bugs : Ubuntu
<diddledan> ooh, my logic is wrong
<diddledan> my comparator is comparing lubotu3 == 0
<diddledan> bug #1
<lubotu3> bug 1 in Ubuntu Malaysia LoCo Team "Microsoft has a majority market share" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1
<diddledan> yey
<diddledan> https://launchpad.net/bugs/1
<diddledan> ooh it didn't like that
<diddledan> ok, this time
<diddledan> https://launchpad.net/bugs/1
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 1 in Ubuntu Malaysia LoCo Team "Microsoft has a majority market share" [Critical,In progress]
<diddledan> grr
<diddledan> TypeError: Object https://launchpad.net/bugs/1 has no method 'match'
<diddledan> if I cast to String() would that work?
<diddledan> https://launchpad.net/bugs/1
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 1 in Ubuntu Malaysia LoCo Team "Microsoft has a majority market share" [Critical,In progress]
<diddledan> better
<diddledan> it ignored both of those
<diddledan> \o/
<diddledan> I think it's good-enough
<diddledan> now let's copy it to the server again and run it headless
<OERIAS> Conceal me what I am, and be my aid For such disguise as happily shall become The form of my intent
<daftykins> mmk
<OERIAS> Shakespeare
<OERIAS> Twelfth Night
<daftykins> doesn't make much sense to me
<OERIAS> Shakespeare is still relevant in a world like ours that is filled with rats and cunning weasels.
<daftykins> it's highly pretentious and overrated though
<daftykins> having it forced down ones neck during education isn't the best of introductions either
<OERIAS> Here my question, if anything, Shakespeare might have written the plays for the nobility, but in reality his plays and poems often pointed out the injustice of his time, a time much like ours.
<zmoylan-pi> eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines :-)
<Myrtti> OggCamp!
<MooDoo> morning all
<Myrtti> ooh. Finnish municipal libraries â¥ Not only do they have books, movies, audiobooks, magazines, music and newspapers, some of them have musical instruments, boardgames, 3D printers, blood pressure monitors and sewing machine and overlocker. Wow.
<zmoylan-pi> so in case of zombie apocalypse you can rebuild civilisation :-)
<Myrtti> yup
<OERIAS> zmoylan-pi, in the event of such castastrophe a lot of current computing devices would be usesless
<OERIAS> i.e Macbook Pro with retina display
 * zmoylan-pi clutches my rasp pi
<davmor2> Morning all, todays sound track starts "No one would of believed, in the last years of the 19th Century"
<MooDoo> morning davmor2 da da da....
<zmoylan-pi> the chances of anything...
 * zmoylan-pi flips through mp3 collection
<MooDoo> davmor2: No one could have dreamed we were being scrutinized, as someone with a microscope
<zmoylan-pi> just a pity they've never made a movie of it
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: they did there have been 2
<zmoylan-pi> i SAID it's a real pity they never made a movie of it!! :-)
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: the half decent original version and the Tom Cruise half soaked attempt
<foobarry> weird. i have no bass in my headphones when plugged in the rear speaker port, but only thru the front headphone socket
<MooDoo> davmor2: start a campaign for a new movie :D  davmor2's kickstarter :D
<zmoylan-pi> the 50's cheesy version and the tom cruise nonsense
<zmoylan-pi> they did good sci fi in the 50s's war of the worlds doesn't qualify
<MooDoo> The invaders was quite good
<zmoylan-pi> the tv series?
<MooDoo> yes
<zmoylan-pi> it was just a thinly disguised beware of communism thingy
<MooDoo> still liked it :D
<zmoylan-pi> mind we had the cia to thank for doctor zhivago AND the animated version of animal farm to thank as well :-)
<davmor2> MooDoo: Tripod
<MooDoo> davmor2: oooo yes forgot about that one
<zmoylan-pi> pity the bbc only made books 1 + 2
<zmoylan-pi> good adaptions as well
<MooDoo> http://www.tv.com/shows/category/science-fiction/decade/1960s/
<snarfit> http://www.tv.com/shows/category/science-fiction/decade/1960s/:
<MooDoo> land of the giants
<MooDoo> snarfit: lol snap
<zmoylan-pi> and have enjoyed listening to their audio version of caves of steel and naked sun
<diddledan> MooDoo: I see you met my bot :-p
<diddledan> I made it for daftykins - it's supposed to grok the title
<diddledan> .. of a url posted
<zmoylan-pi> snarf, named after thundercats?
<MooDoo> ah lol
<MooDoo> by the power of greyskull.....better than thundercats
<zmoylan-pi> battle of the planets
<awilkins> I dunno, I fancied Cheetara more than Teela
<MooDoo> ooo yeah
<zmoylan-pi> oh god furries ::reaches for disinfectant:: :-p
<MooDoo> ewwwwwwwww
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Friday, and happy Techieâs Day! :-D
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<JamesTait> Also, and I'm sure completely unrelated, happy Smile Day. :)
<brobostigon> :)
<davmor2> MooDoo: battle of the planets was better than both :P
<davmor2> defender of the earth, Ulysses, dungeons and dragons
<zmoylan-pi> also national potato day in ireland \o/
<zmoylan-pi> recently watched ulysses 31 for first time in decades, still good
<zmoylan-pi> the animation was no expense spared
<MooDoo> davmor2: loved dnd shame it ended
<MooDoo> oooo what about starfleet
<zmoylan-pi> terrahawks
<MooDoo> howdy JamesTait brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo
<MooDoo> my personal fave "Chorlton and the wheelies"
<zmoylan-pi> pretty much anything by anderson
<davmor2> MooDoo: yeah with Brian May singing the theme song
<MooDoo> heh
<zmoylan-pi> rhubarb
<davmor2> flumps
<MooDoo> fraggle rock
<davmor2> muppets
<MooDoo> dark crystal :D
<davmor2> labyrinth
<MooDoo> whodoo you do
<JamesTait> I do what? ;)
<brobostigon> magic roundabout
<zmoylan-pi> button moon
<MooDoo> mr spoon
<davmor2> jamie and his magic torch
<JamesTait> That's me!
<zmoylan-pi> bagpuss
<davmor2> wurzel gummage
<MooDoo> with aunt sally :D
<JamesTait> I've got a Wurzel Gummage annual upstairs in my bookcase.
<JamesTait> No idea where it came from!
<davmor2> princess bride
<foobarry> mysterious cities of gold?
<davmor2> robin hood, robin hood, riding through the glen, robin hood, robin hood and his band of merry men
<foobarry> i still watch bagpuss
<awilkins> The Dark Crystal is still awesome
<awilkins> The soundtrack especially
<awilkins> The kids entertainment today lacks that little vein of "Grimm" terror in it that it really needs to produce mature and well adjusted people
<awilkins> They need little doses of fear to learn not to become craven cowards in later life !
<foobarry> or to instil primal nightmares in them to terrify them through to adulthood
<foobarry> are you my mummy?
<awilkins> Heheh
<foobarry> i imagine there's still kids having nightmarse about that
<MooDoo> I just let my 3 year old watch a nightmare on elm street
<diddledan> oh god: http://www.doctorwho.tv/whats-new/article/doctor-who-comes-to-minecraft-on-xbox
<foobarry> i read grimm at about age 7.
<snarfit> null: Doctor Who comes to Minecraft on Xbox | Articles | Doctor Who
<diddledan> snarfit: what happend to your url?
<diddledan> it's buggy as heck
<diddledan> only took 30 minutes to code
<MooDoo> ah there begins the extra cost to minecraft
<awilkins> Ah yes
<awilkins> Â£1.99
<MooDoo> sigh
<zmoylan-pi> start small
<Myrtti> Hudl 2 looks pretty good for the price
<zmoylan-pi> hudl 1 never seemed to make it to ireland which was a pity as it looked pretty decent
<brobostigon> my concern would be, tesco's idea, of android upgrades.
<Myrtti> yeah.
<awilkins> Offspring has a HUDL1
<brobostigon> which as far as i saw, with the first model, was non-existant.
<awilkins> Not a bad tablet, but yet, no upgrades
<awilkins> Wonder if you can nuke + cyanogenmod it
<brobostigon> when android l comes out, thats probably what i will have to do on my nexus7.
<awilkins> No update love for the version 1 N7 ?
<awilkins> Or you just want to avoid Android L?
<brobostigon> i doubt it, there arent any test images as of yet.
<awilkins> Scuttlebutt is that the Google employee test platform for Android L is Nexus 4
<brobostigon> no idea.
<Myrtti> awilkins: I have N7 2012 and it's now at the point that I just want to make it a crabpot weight
<awilkins> Given the new execution platform should cut CPU and battery consumption I would have thought it would be a welcome refresh to the older devices
<brobostigon> i have cm11 on mine, and it still, does the job very very well.
<awilkins> BUT you have to temper that with the marketing guys going "Whoa, don't put a welcome refresh on those older devices, people won't buy the new ones!"
<brobostigon> the beauty of cm.
<Myrtti> I should go pack and shower
<Myrtti> silly oggcamp
<popey> \o/ Oggcamp
<shauno> hm.  slightly awkward getting to work and discovering I forgot to screw the bottom of my laptop back on
<diddledan> lol
<awilkins> Oops
<awilkins> Occasionally I get there and have to swap the work OS drive back into it
<awilkins> But I carry a screwdriver at all times for this reason
<shauno> yeah.  luckily we have enough nerds that screwdrivers / rubber mallets are rarely far away
<zmoylan-pi> only 1 screwdriver?
<awilkins> Only need one
<awilkins> Only one kind of screw in the laptop
<diddledan> you only need one hammer
<diddledan> all screws work with the same hammer
<awilkins> Speaking of Cyanogenmod, anyone seen one of these in the wild? http://oneplus.net/uk/one
<snarfit> http://oneplus.net/uk/one: OnePlus One - OnePlus.net
<MooDoo> awilkins: yeah my mate has got one, he loves it.
<awilkins> Still need an invite to buy one though
<awilkins> Gah
<zmoylan-pi> a blackjack and wait outside googles office? :-p
<davmor2> MooDoo: Trapdoor!
<zmoylan-pi> an awesome game on 8 bit computers as well
<diddledan> is it lunch time yet?
<zmoylan-pi> depends where you are on the planet
<davmor2> diddledan: it's always lunchtime some where
 * zmoylan-pi hands diddledan some acme rocket powered roller skates and a helmet and points to east :-)
<shauno> if it's not lunchtime yet, it just means you have more time to cook a bigger lunch :)
<popey> i cooked all of the bacon in the house
<popey> i am now done with bacon for today
<brobostigon> :)
<MooDoo> BACON!!!!
<davmor2> popey: jono will be upset
<MooDoo> davmor2: jono is too busy to care now he's schmoozing with the hollywood stars ;)
 * zmoylan-pi breaks out emergency sausage roll
 * brobostigon has his amergency giant cornish pasty.
<MooDoo> Looks like our ubuntu forums .org forum has been archived for inactivity
<zmoylan-pi> do people still use forums?
<MooDoo> guess not lol
<foobarry> i do
<foobarry> not techie ones, although with techie ones often the info i need is on page 59 of a thread you have to read in entirety
<foobarry> nice specs on hudl2 , has anyone used one?
<MooDoo> foobarry: thinking about them for the kids at christmas
<foobarry> i have a question: if i buy an app on google play store, is it available to download on all devices registered to my account?
<MartijnVdS> yes
<foobarry> \o/
<DJones> foobarry: Most times, some apps aren't always compatible with every device though
<foobarry> yep. as long as in theory my phone and tablet can use it, all good
<diddledan> random: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xiyh-w2BsoI
<snarfit> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xiyh-w2BsoI: Destroy Every Pie You Touch : Parody : Weebl and Bob - YouTube
<directhex> diddledan, makes more sense in the context of the parodied music video
<diddledan> good ol' ladytron black mambazo
<diddledan> or is that a different group?
<diddledan> :-p
<shauno> the chaps off the Heinz advert?
<diddledan> possibly?
<MooDoo> ladysmith black mambazo
<diddledan> is ladytron the lass that son-of-flynn frees from the grid?
<diddledan> </spoiler>
<awilkins> Doesn't she free him?
<awilkins> And that's Qorra
<diddledan> she's purdy
<shauno> down boy!
<foobarry> mmm purdeys
<diddledan> woof
<awilkins> I can never quite reconcile how Olivia Wilde is now, with her performance as Thirteen in House
<diddledan> o_O
<foobarry> i'm not sure who any of these people are
<MartijnVdS> google image search :)
<foobarry> although i discovered today that kelso and jackie from 70s show are actually partners
<foobarry> and how donna seems to be a more tomboy version of my wife
<ging> can you still get flash to work on chrome on ubuntu 12.04?
<awilkins> foobarry, Your wife is a version of Laura Prepon? Lucky dog....
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100225130000/tardis/images/9/9c/Donna.jpg ?
<foobarry> aargh not her
<awilkins> ging, Pepper flash? http://www.ubuntugeek.com/how-to-install-pepper-flash-for-chromium-web-browser-on-ubuntu-gnulinux.html
<snarfit> http://www.ubuntugeek.com/how-to-install-pepper-flash-for-chromium-web-browser-on-ubuntu-gnulinux.html: How to install Pepper Flash for Chromium Web browser on Ubuntu GNU/Linux | Ubuntu Geek
<foobarry> the one awilkins mentiond
<awilkins> : http://kosmixmedia.com/static/9e5864c47325ae54513f5a2486b4701d.jpg
<diddledan> well done
<diddledan> you found a bug
<foobarry> http://cdn.buzznet.com/assets/users16/callinamarie/default/laura-prepon--large-msg-136337352124.jpg
<diddledan> achievement unlocked: post a jpg and watch the bot die
<foobarry> looks more like my link than your one
<foobarry> minus airbrushing etc
<awilkins> Yeah, mine is more recent
<awilkins> Her look has changed a lot, especially for Orange Is the New Black
<ging> thanks awilkins
<foobarry> i prefer the old look awilkins , less fake
<shauno> slashdot has some interesting translation going on; http://i.imgur.com/Qk4iWPk.png
<shauno> (and no, I'm not in france  heh)
<diddledan> shauno's a frog!
<diddledan> </racism>
<diddledan> does doing </whateveryoujustdidthat'soffensive> negate the offence?
<diddledan> if not then I guess I need to apologise to all the frogs present?
<shauno> reminds me, I found the oddest code today (C) ..
<diddledan> ooh
<diddledan> show us
<shauno> it started with #include <math.h>, and then at the end of the file, it had </math.h>
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> oops
<shauno> now, C ain't my thing, but .. I'm not sure it works like that?
<diddledan> oh that's made my day
<shauno> http://www.geodatasource.com/developers/c
<snarfit> http://www.geodatasource.com/developers/c: Calculate Distance by Latitude and Longitude using C/C++ | GeoDataSource World Cities Database
<jpds> shauno: You need to spend more time on: http://www.thedailywtf.com/
<snarfit> http://www.thedailywtf.com/:
<diddledan> I wonder if that was done by the CMS?
<arsenip> is there an official procedure for upping to kernel 3.2.x
<diddledan> yeah, let apt handle it
<diddledan> major kernel revisions should come along with a release-upgrade
<arsenip> hm
<arsenip> well, ive got a fresh 14.04, want to whack on a newer kernel - but nothing in repo
<diddledan> well 3.2 is older than what trusty has by default iirc?
<diddledan> yeah, my trusty install has 3.13
<arsenip> hm
<arsenip> what if i want to specifically use 3.2?:)
<diddledan> it's probably too old
<diddledan> I would imagine that trusty relies on newer kernels than 3.2
<awilkins> 3.13 is newer than 3.2 ... why do you need 3.2?
<arsenip> gotcha. looking for bugs across distros
<arsenip> specific to that version :)
<Azelphur> https://www.dropbox.com/s/odi8xd23lu7g5du/2014-10-03%2015.54.12.jpg?dl=0 colemak problems :<
<snarfit> https://www.dropbox.com/s/odi8xd23lu7g5du/2014-10-03%2015.54.12.jpg?dl=0: Dropbox - 2014-10-03 15.54.12.jpg
<diddledan> that makes my head hurt
<Azelphur> haha
<directhex> Azelphur, you have bigger problems
<Azelphur> I wonder if there's something I can do to make them not be silver.
<directhex> mad catz problems
<Azelphur> directhex: are you talking about my broken strike 7? yea I know :P
<davmor2> Azelphur: paint them black
<Azelphur> right now my house is like gaming keyboard central, I have a G19, G19S, Strike 7, Corsair K50, PX-2000 >.<
<Azelphur> oh and the G13
<Azelphur> davmor2: yea, but that'd be difficult to do without also painting the letters
<diddledan> www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6d8eKvegLI
<davmor2> Azelphur: remove the keys then paint them black
<Azelphur> diddledan: hehe
<Azelphur> davmor2: that doesn't make it any easier to not paint over the (transparent, backlight) letters
<ali1234> i don't understand how you are supposed to play borderlands 2 :(
<Azelphur> ali1234: isn't it native now?
<ali1234> most of the game is really easy, then you hit a boss
<ali1234> the only way i can kill them is find a way to get the AI stuck in a place where they can't attack me, and then sniper rifle them in the head 40 times
<davmor2> Azelphur: you asked how to not make them silver you should learn to be more specific :P
<Azelphur> davmor2: haha
<ali1234> their attacks are one hit kills
<davmor2> Azelphur: in all seriousness, you could use a small crafting paintbrush and a steady hand
<Azelphur> yea, I'd ruin it.
<ali1234> they have like 10000 HP and I have like 100 HP, and my attacks do 40 HP damage and theirs do 250
<directhex> dodge!
<Azelphur> coin
 * Azelphur runs
<ali1234> how do you dodge an area affect attack that sets the entire map on fire?
<Azelphur> ali1234: fly!
<davmor2> Azelphur: actually you'll probably find they are black keys just painted silver have you tried scratch one gently?
<Azelphur> davmor2: I haven't
<Chrisfu> Anybody familiar with Ubuntu OpenStack, particularly the Orange Box? Trying to replicate an Orange Box-like environment to PoC OpenStack, and I've found myself stuck in a chicken-and-egg scenario.
<Chrisfu> Any pointers would be most appreciated.
<Chrisfu> Bit of background to anyone that sees this later and feels they could help: 10 machines, old Dell R210's we have lying around, matched specs as close to the NUC's in the Orange Box as much as possible.
<Chrisfu> Ubuntu server on node0, MAAS installed. The other 9 nodes are enrolled and I can work with them, provision them, reset them. All fine.
<Chrisfu> http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2014/06/hands-on-with-canonicals-orange-box-and-a-peek-into-cloud-nirvana/ suggests that node0 has a virtual machine on it, that looks to have had Juju deployed onto it. Yet as far as I'm aware, Juju's bootstrapping process (when run on node0) is simply going to pick a random node and attempt to deploy the Juju workload to it.
<snarfit> http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2014/06/hands-on-with-canonicals-orange-box-and-a-peek-into-cloud-nirvana/: Hands-on with Canonicalâs Orange Box and a peek into cloud nirvana | Ars Technica
<shauno> Chrisfu: my best suggestion would be to try in #ubuntu-server - they live, breath, and in many cases, write the stuff you're asking about
<Chrisfu> shauno: Thanks for the tip.
<directhex> davmor2, Azelphur, the plastic is sorta see-through under the silver.
<Azelphur> directhex: yea I know :)
<awilkins> ali1234, In real life, an area affect that sets the map on fire will kill you if you fly because the uprising gases will have no oxygen in them
 * awilkins wonders if enlightened DMs for D&D take this into account when hurling a fireball into a 10x10 room of fireproof creatures that nevertheless have to metabolise
<diddledan> any kerbal addicts? this is awesome https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_RQ-CShPYEk
<snarfit> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_RQ-CShPYEk: SKY + + BOX - A Kerbal Space Program Movie - YouTube
<daftykins> thank you snarfit! :)
<daftykins> almost 11 whole minutes!
<davmor2> czajkowski: Hippo Birdy
<diddledan> I think it's time I stopped working for today
<daftykins> yip
<daftykins> i'm debating a curry
<diddledan> mm, tasty
<foobarry> just watched a horrid film
<daftykins> i'm feeling too lazy to bother to shave to look presentable, to go and get it though :(
<foobarry> don't know why i carried on watching
<shauno> you need to shave to get a curry?
<daftykins> yeah i don't like going out in public looking homeless :)
<foobarry> if you're going to curry or co-op,. its ok
<foobarry> i was at work with 5 day growth this week
<diddledan> 5 whole days? you lot are lightweights
<diddledan> <-- hippy
<foobarry> 5 days = scruffy
<shauno> I rock homeless all the time :)  I apparently can't grow a beard.  I can grow 5 beards which aren't on speaking terms with each other.
<daftykins> i can't grow anything though
<daftykins> shauno: lol, like it
<daftykins> trouble is i'm in the centre of town, i'm guaranteed to see someone i know too, given as it's Guernsey
<daftykins> and there's one degree of separation
<shauno> I wasn't sure.  I have you and directhex perpetually confused in my head.  As soon as the conversation's over, I'll instantly forget which of you is the islander :)
<daftykins> d'aww
<daftykins> it's easy, hexy is all sensible with wife and child
<daftykins> i'm the care-free daft one
<diddledan> lol
<daftykins> hmm i'm gonna nip off to the curry house then, hopefully it's not chock full of lairy work-meal types
<brobostigon> yummy
<diddledan> is it a good thing or bad that transformers made the "blwoooorp" noise so prevalent?
<shauno> I'm not sure what you're talking about.  and /exec say blwoooorp didn't help much
<shauno> reminds me, completely off topic, but I have some accessibility stuff turned on for various reasons.  and I'm fairly sure my mac's pronounciation of english is getting worse
<diddledan> it's because they're using siri
<diddledan> siri is learning bad english off chavs
<diddledan> that's then getting ploughed into the maps for speach synthesis
<diddledan> it's inception that invented the noise, aparently (re: my transformers comment): http://blogs.indiewire.com/theplaylist/braaam-10-trailers-that-use-abuse-the-inception-braaam-20130412
<snarfit> http://blogs.indiewire.com/theplaylist/braaam-10-trailers-that-use-abuse-the-inception-braaam-20130412: BRAAAM! 10 Trailers That Use & Abuse The 'Inception' BRAA | The Playlist
<shauno> https://www.dropbox.com/s/ge7qin4fafi6kre/serena.mp3?dl=0
<snarfit> https://www.dropbox.com/s/ge7qin4fafi6kre/serena.mp3?dl=0: Dropbox - serena.mp3
<shauno> (and seriously, I think a whitelist is the way to go ;)
<shauno> it's handy for youtube, vimeo, and ... almost nothing else.
<shauno> but yeah, the voice synth.  whenever it has to pronounce the name of a process, it butchers it.  it can say "login window", but not "loginwindow"
<foobarry> who runs snarfit?
<diddledan> I'm not sure "runs" is valid
<foobarry> for irssi users, it should tinyurl the link
<diddledan> I fired it and forgot
<foobarry> so when it repeats the link, it just shows the tinyurl version instead  and the descriptopn
<foobarry> just a suggestion :D
<diddledan> https://github.com/diddledan/snarfit <-- patch it and submit a pull-request :-p
<snarfit> https://github.com/diddledan/snarfit: diddledan/snarfit Â· GitHub
<foobarry> i'll do that if i remember/have time next week
<daftykins> mmm curry
<gebbione> if you have 14.04 installed can you tell me if you can resize your folders columns when viewing in list mode
<zmoylan-pi> in thunar?
<gebbione> isnt gnome the default?
<daftykins> nautilus.
<gebbione> well it is the default one
<ali1234> what channel is this?
<shauno> fun reading, http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2221949   (short version, you can, but it's not intuitive *when* you can)
<snarfit> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2221949: [SOLVED] Nautilus 14.04 Resize columns
<gebbione> the concept of solved for some people is interesting
<gebbione> " you can only resize a filed when it's next to a filed that has extra space"
<shauno> heh, I'm not defending it, just bringing the convo to the point where you know as much as I do :)
<gebbione> sometimes even the stupid things microsoft does (not that i used win8 for instance but everyone talks badly about it) sound nothing compared to the basic failures of some functionality in linux distros
<ali1234> nobody makes you use gnome
<daftykins> difference is, you can change it.
<ali1234> in practice you can't
<ali1234> unless you fork the entire desktop
<ali1234> good luck maintaining that
<daftykins> there are two changes possible
<gebbione> see just talking about it opens a debate
<daftykins> using Windows doesn't? :)
<daftykins> gebbione: you can ask for a refund if you like
<ali1234> the easiest solution is just to not use gnome
<gebbione> ahahha time is not refoundable
<ali1234> or at the very least stop using nautilus
<gebbione> daftykins, so how do you browse your desktop
<gebbione> files system in the GUI
<daftykins> that's not relevant
<gebbione> it is for me, i am looking for a solution that does not require any customisation other than a straight forward one, at least not requiring mainteinance
<daftykins> so basically you want an alternative that doesn't involve changing anything?
<daftykins> 1) use a different file manager 2) use a different DE
<ali1234> install xubuntu
<gebbione> is there any difference between nautilus and gnome?
<ali1234> yes, one is a file manager, one is a desktop that includes nautilus
<ali1234> nautilus is also the default in unity afaik
<gebbione> so the alternative to nautilus would be?
<zmoylan-pi> which is why even in ubuntu i use thunar :-)
<ali1234> nemo, thunar, pcmanfm...
<gebbione> and to see how they look i need to install them? i guess some videos are on youtube or such
<ali1234> nemo is a fork of nautilus from before it jumped the shark
<ali1234> it's probably the best one for you, if you just want a less annoying version of nautilus
<gebbione> zmoylan-pi, why thunar
<gebbione> http://artfulrobot.com/blog/whats-best-file-manager-ubuntu-gnome-1404-trusty
<snarfit> http://artfulrobot.com/blog/whats-best-file-manager-ubuntu-gnome-1404-trusty: What's the best file manager for Ubuntu Gnome 14.04 Trusty? | artfulrobot.com
<daftykins> diddledan: hmm, i'd just have the title and not a URL repeat personally
<zmoylan-pi> it's small light and didn't annoy me gebbione
<gebbione> is it easy to downgrade to 12?
<daftykins> downgrades aren't supported
<gebbione> nemo is on
<daftykins> i'm gonna guess you don't mean Finding Nemo on TV
<diddledan> nemo?
<daftykins> file manager
<diddledan> aah
<diddledan> I figured the animated film, too
<daftykins> :D
<gebbione> daftykins, i feel so much better now, it is unbelievable how much rubbish nautilus is in this state, from my point of view of course
<daftykins> i think you're being a bit too dramatic about it
<daftykins> and i don't even run desktop Linux, so...
<gebbione> not at all, if you are running 14.04 suddenly stuff is really strange
<gebbione> at the moment nemo fixes some of the problems
<gebbione> still
<gebbione> gnome windows in general are strange, for instance chrome you maximise/minimise from the left top when maximised or from the top right when not maximised
<gebbione> though you might think this is not major
<daftykins> simple case of running a non-native browser
<ali1234> in preferences check "use native window controls" or w/e
<gebbione> from UA it is really annoying
<daftykins> so configure it properly
<ali1234> "Use system title bar and borders"
<daftykins> gebbione: none of these rants of yours are going to change anything by taking place in here, take them to where they belong
<ali1234> alternatives, don't use chrome
<ali1234> yes, go tell #gnome on irc.gnome.org
<gebbione> ali1234,  i was using chromium but that is not supported anymore
<gebbione> firefox is too junky imho
<ali1234> i don't think chrome has an irc channel. not one with developers in anyway
<gebbione> daftykins, for all these observations of mine there are open bugs/reports
<gebbione> they still mark them solved  despite complaints from users
<daftykins> are you the minority?
<ali1234> yeah that's the point where i stopped using the software and started telling everyone not to use it
<daftykins> ali1234: what did that happen with?
<ali1234> unity
<ali1234> bug 729979
<lubotu3> bug 729979 in compiz (Ubuntu) "[nvidia] Windows appear blank white" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/729979
<gebbione> daftykins, who is the majority of people that wants unresizable columns in windows listings?
<daftykins> why are you asking me?
<gebbione> because you are asking me if I am the minority
<ali1234> people who report bugs are always the majority, because most people don't know how to
<ali1234> i mean minority
<daftykins> talking to me about this isn't going to get you anywhere
<shauno> I've felt for a long time (and I may be wrong), that ubuntu's target demographic are people who don't, and probably won't use ubuntu
<gebbione> daftykins, from that point of view your replies will not really do much with you either but at least now from talking in this channel i have trashed nautilus from something uglier that does the job
<daftykins> gebbione: can you run that one by me in English?
<gebbione> no i am sure you ll get there somehow, walking, running or anywayyou prefer
<daftykins> ...
<daftykins> i'm saying your statement didn't make sense
<daftykins> "your replies will not really do much with you either" 0o
<daftykins> nevermind, i'm gonna go do fun things like my physio
<gebbione> thats exactly what i mean, while my comments here will not do much neither will you telling me that i should go to complaint somewhere else ... while really i was just asking your opinion from a UA point of view
<gebbione> but physio is fine
<gebbione> i ll go too
<gebbione> but i am sure i ll be back with more
<gebbione> bear with us daftykins
<gebbione> bye for now and thanks for the suggestions
<daftykins> i do not like that user.
<ali1234> what game invented the white -> green -> blue -> red -> purple -> orange level system?
<ali1234> i suspect it might have been diablo?
<ali1234> http://www.giantbomb.com/color-coded-loot/3015-4702/
<snarfit> http://www.giantbomb.com/color-coded-loot/3015-4702/: Color-Coded Loot (Concept) - Giant Bomb
<shauno> their explanation of high levels having better stats than a lower-levelled better-coloured is .. clumsy
<shauno> they're usually just multipliers.  an item has a stat budget, which is a product of it's level, and then multiplied by it's tier/rarity/colour/whatever you want to call it
#ubuntu-uk 2014-10-04
<ali1234> seems like i'm not the only one who thinks that the difficulty is a bit wrong in borderlands 2
<daftykins> it's a bit weird when some NPC is a higher level and you can't even make a dent
<ali1234> apparently people who played 1 also had a similar conclusion
<ali1234> it's not even "hard" - it just takes forever to kill anything
<ali1234> i'm getting to the point where even normal grunts will take 4 headshots and keep going
<daftykins> yeah it was genuinely impossible on the xbox when me and friends got it
<ali1234> i find the best tactic is fire pistol everything until it sets on fire, then run away and wait for them to burn to death
<ali1234> repeat until everything is dead
<ali1234> doesn't work on bosses though, they have too much hp
<ali1234> for them, i lure them back to the entrance and then blast them with the car gun
<ali1234> even that can take like 10 minutes of constant rocket launcher blasts before they go down
<daftykins> why don't you just level up? :)
<ali1234> because grinding is boring
<OERIAS> We are oft to blame in this, - 'Tis too much proved - that with devotion's visage And pious action we do sugar o'er The devil himself
<daftykins> oh not you again :(
<OERIAS> daftykins, you seem to have a problem with Shakespeare.
<OERIAS> why?
<daftykins> :D
<OERIAS> He was a gay man?
<daftykins> happy? i care not for someones joviality
<foobarry> skeleton staff only this weekend as oggcamp is in town
<Myrtti> indeed
<Myrtti> our hotel room was a bit odd
<Myrtti> maybe needs updating to the 21st century
<foobarry> oxford for ya
<Myrtti> no power sockets by the bedside table
<foobarry> tourists pay anyway
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<Myrtti> moin
<brobostigon> moin Myrtti
<brobostigon> is that finnish? because i am familier with the word from platt duutsch.
<foobarry> a package arrived \o/
<foobarry> http://i.imgur.com/f7I8YWP.jpg
<popey> moin
<brobostigon> moin popey
<Azelphur> and on todays hilarious news, a skiddie just tried to DDoS my service which is behind cloudflare.
 * Azelphur facepalms
<zmoylan-pi> they have to start somewhere :-)
<Azelphur> hehe
 * DJones settles down to watch Jack Ryan, Shadow warrior..Amazing how Alec Baldwin has gotten 30 years younger  tranformed into Christopher Pine, I guess thats what happens when you've got NCC1701 available to time travel
 * SuperEngineer settles down with takeaway... to watch Dr. Who at 8.30
<DJones> SuperEngineer: The takeaway will be cold by then
<SuperEngineer> DJones: nope - it will be nice n warm in my tummy by then! :0
 * penguin42 swears at adb
<daftykins> penguin42: uh-oh! what's it not doing? :)
<penguin42> daftykins: Not talking to my phone
<daftykins> ooh-err, dev mode on?
<penguin42> daftykins: yep, little tick on the remote debug thing, I can su and get root from connectbot; and it was working last week; I can see it in the lsusb, I've got the udev rule, I can see the /sys/bus entry has perms and I've got the line in ~/.android/adb_usb.ini
<daftykins> hehe
<daftykins> sounds like all bases covered!
 * penguin42 could draw a pentagon and place it in that
<SuperEngineer> ..or draw a rubbish bin & place it in that!
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: Too nice a phone really for that
<SuperEngineer> nah!
<penguin42> ahha, it needs the 0x before the id in adb_usb
<daftykins> D:
<penguin42> I wish adb would have some diags - any would be good
<penguin42> even with the env set it really doesn't help
<shauno> hm, bbc2 is kinda odd right now.  this isn't how I remember bbc docus
<penguin42> what's it on?
<shauno> penguins!
<penguin42> oooh
<shauno> but they seem to spend as much time showing you how they're hiding the cameras.  which is unusual
<shauno> I almost prefer it when she shots just seem impossible
<daftykins> :)
<penguin42> oh this one
<penguin42> ok, that's weird
<penguin42> shauno: There was a documentary a few weeks ago where they were doing international animal moves; and one of the sections was moving some Gentoo penguins from New Zealand to Birmingham; the Gentoo's really sound like old fashioned car horns - very much HONK!
<shauno> poor Gentoos :(
<shauno> I'd sound like a car horn if you relocated me to b'ham too
<penguin42> well, yes
<daftykins> XD
<marshmn> anyone got a recommendation for a good Ubuntu laptop?
<marshmn> my shortlist is currently Lenovo Thinkpad 1440s or Dell XPS 15
<marshmn> would be interested in opinions of these, and other alternatives...
<daftykins> is that one of the Dells they sell with Ubuntu on?
<marshmn> no
<marshmn> I believe they sell Ubuntu on the XPS 13
<marshmn> but I'm put off by the smaller screen size of that..
<marshmn> TBH, it's also the biggest downside of the Thinkpad 1440s for me (screen is only 14")
<marshmn> finding a nice light 15" Linux laptop isn't so easy
<marshmn> people at work have 15" Macbook Pros, and I suppose I'm trying to find the best Linux equivalent to that...
<marshmn> but it doesn't seem easy
<marshmn> the Dell XPS 15 looks pretty decent - I'm actually worried by whether the screen res is too high... is Linux ready for HiDPI yet (really)?
<ali1234> no
<penguin42> marshmn: Which is the 1440 - I'm used to thinkpads starting with a letter and then 3 digits
<directhex> marshmn, you mean 440s?
<directhex> T440s, even
<directhex> i've used linux on T440s, and on other recent dells
#ubuntu-uk 2014-10-05
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<penguin42> hmm,  I wonder which item of my browsing history makes Amazon suggest UHT Semi skimmed milk proportions
<penguin42> ^pro^
<penguin42> Television, skimmed milk, ic, phone case, breadboard, resistors, phone, pc, audio cable   - hmmm
<zmoylan-pi> my money would be the phone case as it sounds like you might be a hipster who spends all their money on smartphones and paraphanalea.  and uht last forever as it's crap :-p
<zmoylan-pi> just one step removed from the dogs milk :-D
<shauno> I'm missing the link between the two.  surely if it has him flagged as a hipster, it'd be omgorganic alpacca milk or something?
<zmoylan-pi> they probably know about his donation to peta
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
 * penguin42 is sure bigcalm is getting later
<bigcalm> penguin42: I was busy at oggcamp. Relaxing in my hotel now. Just had a nap, so it could be morning for all I know
<penguin42> ah
<foobarry> about to replace OS on a laptop with encrypted home
<foobarry> what precautions do i take if i want to keep /home?
<foobarry> got a copy of ecrypy-unwrap-passphrase passwd
<SuperEngineer> foobarry: I have done this one 3 separate nachine [desktop, mini & netbook].  I took the precation of backing up the home drive each time.  All 3 times it proved fully ok & backup not needed.  Though I do recommend writing down *& storing* the uncrypt long phrase at end of install.
<foobarry> ta
<SuperEngineer> foobarry: np
<penguin42> foobarry: I tend to use LUKS; but just make sure you know how to decrypt from a rescue CD
<popey> evening all
<brobostigon> evening hrh popey
<diddledan>  m00
<daftykins> what-o o/
 * popey is pooped
<popey> two weekends of conferences in a row
<daftykins> cor!
<zmoylan-pi> next weekend, the conference on how to handle conferences
<daftykins> why do they always put it last :(
<zmoylan-pi> so you can sleep during the lecture
<daftykins> i pushed the boat out tonight and bought some beer
<daftykins> pretty confident my head injury has abated now
<brobostigon> or drink so much coffee and have so much caffeine, you make yourself abit manic.
<daftykins> lol
<daftykins> oddly caffeine doesn't do anything to me
<zmoylan-pi> how much caffine do you take?
<brobostigon> depends on how much here, if its below about 15/20 cups inside a day, i am fine,
<shauno> coffee I'm fine with, but if I get too much blood in my coffeestream, things go downhill
<zmoylan-pi> stay indoors people... http://earth.nullschool.net/#current/wind/isobaric/1000hPa/orthographic=-3.07,51.59,2480
<snarfit> http://earth.nullschool.net/#current/wind/isobaric/1000hPa/orthographic=-3.07,51.59,2480: earth :: an animated map of global wind, weather, and ocean conditions
<shauno> yeah :D  my side of ireland is just white.  rock on.
#ubuntu-uk 2015-09-28
<diddledan> roll-on october. I want my virgin!
<diddledan> (speed bump)
<zmoylan-pi> yeah that did need a qualifier :-P
<daftykins> this the 300Mb jump i've heard about?
<diddledan> aye
<diddledan> prolly some silly figure like 304
<daftykins> pretty impressive doing a doubling when it's already that high
<diddledan> apparently BT's plans for G.Fast will mean that by 2020 they might have fttc running at 300
<diddledan> virgin pretty much blows that out of the water if they're doing 300 now. the only competition would be fttp
<zmoylan-pi> and sneakernet :-)
<diddledan> (currently BT runs fttp at 300 max - dad has it at standard 40/10 tho 'cos he doesn't want to pay the high cost - his only option was fttp due to the weird setup they have over there)
<diddledan> t'was a bit of a farce getting them enabled anyway - they won a bt comp back along called "race to infinity" by getting 100% of the population to say they wanted fibre (supposedly 100% according to the figure quoted by BT) but it took YEARS to actually get installed. they have their own exchange but the fibre network runs from the andover exchange about 8 miles away
<diddledan> so BT dug the road up all the way from andover instead of using the infrastructure they had in place in whitchurch already
<zmoylan-pi> sounds a bit of a cock up
<diddledan> it was
<zmoylan-pi> aiming for deliberate failure so that they can keep pushing old/slower for longer?
<diddledan> it actually seems like real-honest-to-goodness idiocy
 * zmoylan-pi remembers ireland flogging isdn when rest of world was on dsl
<daftykins> i'm confused, they put fiber in so surely that's better?
<diddledan> http://whitchurch.org.uk/news/fibre-finally-lights-up-but-some-still-in-the-dark/
<diddledan> who remembers homehighway?
<zmoylan-pi> sounds like they made a meal of the installation.  more work than necessary
<diddledan> it took over 5 years to actually get what was promised
<zmoylan-pi> sounds very bt :-)
<diddledan> that was from 2014 - here's one from 2013: https://recombu.com/digital/article/bts-fibre-broadband-infinity-slow-whitchurch_M11160.html
<diddledan> and here they claim it will be active by 2012: http://www.marketingmagazine.co.uk/article/1047736/bt-names-winners-race-infinity-campaign
<daftykins> nice lunar eclipse there
<daftykins> just walked down to the seafront to see
<daftykins> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AOL-_lXp5ZQ
<daftykins> wow that's... that's how to fail
<zmoylan-pi> comes across as someone who doesn't use tech themselves
<daftykins> indeed :S
<daftykins> and they wonder why they're in trouble :)
<zmoylan-pi> for a lot of people who want a keybord they'll look past the crappy salesman and buy it anyway
<zmoylan-pi> and a *lot* of people want a keyboard
<daftykins> *nod* got a client who hangs onto a blackberry solely for it
<daftykins> i don't get it personally
<zmoylan-pi> it may be a small % of overall users but if they can claim that % it's a lot of phones
<zmoylan-pi> i prefer keyboards
<zmoylan-pi> typing on virtual keyboard would drive me nuts at more than >1k per day
<daftykins> ah i think if you try enough of the virtual apps ones you can find one that'll work well :>
<zmoylan-pi> i've tried many, they fail on so many levels.
<zmoylan-pi> when i type on real keyboard i can use muscle memory to type
<zmoylan-pi> i can rest fingers on keyboard
<zmoylan-pi> i know what i've type without looking at screen
<zmoylan-pi> and i flippin hate the smudges on screens from touching them.  they can end up manky.
<daftykins> mmm definitely not ones to be shared
<zmoylan-pi> i've been handed touchscreen devices and my first impulse was to drop them in boiling water to sterilise the buggers
<daftykins> even other folks keyboards and rodents are a bit unpleasant
<zmoylan-pi> so i like to have something were i touch one part and look at another.  so keyboard AND screen. thank you very much :-)
<zmoylan-pi> it's great that others can get on with virtual keyboards but the real keyboard is not going away
<daftykins> it almost entirely has though oddly, can't think of any phones with one as standard that are new
<zmoylan-pi> and back...
<daftykins> wow 5am again :D
<zmoylan-pi> seemed like a good time to pick at the time :-)
<daftykins> ah i thought you had a regular issue that occurs then, you mentioned it the other day
<zmoylan-pi> it seems to have calmed down my adsl modem/ap from borking once a week that needed a phyiscal reset which is awkward as it's in landlords part of house
<zmoylan-pi> terrible leccy and i suspect the phone line is iffy too.  an old house
<daftykins> ah
<zmoylan-pi> but free data i do tech support :-)
<daftykins> ah no the SeaMeWe-3 undersea cable has been cut!
<zmoylan-pi> so australia is offline?
<daftykins> just some slowdown
<zmoylan-pi> could take a while for the albatrosses to implement ip via avian...
<zmoylan-pi> you'd think by now they could retrench a repaired cable
<daftykins> indeed!
<daftykins> or threaten seafolk enough to be more careful ;)
<daftykins> reminds me, my folks said they were down Land's End the other day and saw the spot where all the links come in
<zmoylan-pi> i do like that when they laid the first transatlantic cable it came ashore on a sandy beach to protect the cable
<daftykins> really they just wanted to frolick on the beach ;)
<zmoylan-pi> i'm sure the telegraph operators were hackers and their cats appreciated the litter box :-)
<Moodoo> morning all
<DJones> Morning
<diplo> Morning all
<Moodoo> morning diplo
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Monday, and happy Drink Beer Day! ð
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<MartijnVdS> \o brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning MartijnVdS
<brobostigon> i have a question, is it possible to make dovecot/postfix thats on one server with one domain think its on another, and serve a different domain?
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: what do you mean exactly?
<MartijnVdS> you can configure postfix to accept mail for any domain you want. And it'll work as long as you point an MX record at it
<MartijnVdS> and dovecot will happily serve mailboxes for anything on the system too
<brobostigon> i have dovecot/postfix setup on jabber.* would there be a way of making it serve my taylorworld domain without setting it up allover again?
<brobostigon> so i just change the mx record on taylorworld* to point at jabber* ?
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: yes. But you do need to tell postfix (in its config file) to accept mail for that domain too.
<brobostigon> ah i see. ok.
<brobostigon> ty.
<MartijnVdS> I haven't configured postfix in a while, so I don't know exactly how to set it all up, but there's a ton of HOWTOs out there
<MartijnVdS> also Postfix documentation, while a bit dense, is actually quite good
<brobostigon> yes, should be easy enough to find out how.
<JamesTait> IIRC there's a $mydomains setting that sets which domains Postfix will consider local.
 * brobostigon makes notes.
<JamesTait> But my setup (which I haven't needed to touch for years) just accepts mail for three separate domains and delivers to the same mailbox regardless of domain, i.e. foo@example.org and foo@example.com land in the same mailbox.
<brobostigon> ah i see.
<JamesTait> Not sure if that's what you're after, or if you want different mailboxes for taylorworld and jabber.*
<brobostigon> i think it would nominally work having them all combined into the same box.
<MartijnVdS> you can set up different "routing" for the different domains too so brobostigon@some_domain goes to one mailbox, and brobostigon@jabber.some_domain goes to another
<brobostigon> cool.
<TwistedLucidity> I want to configure email so that tl.foo@domain and tl.bar@domain go to the same mailbox.
<TwistedLucidity> A bit like how you can have tl+foo@gmail.com or tl+bar@gmail.com; but most sites reject the "+" as invalid.
<TwistedLucidity> Heck, some sites even reject a hyphen as invalid!
<jpds> TwistedLucidity: http://www.postfix.org/VIRTUAL_README.html
<TwistedLucidity> jpds - I'm being thick, I don't follow how that document helps me
<jpds> Ah, sorry, I read that you wanted another domain
<TwistedLucidity> Nah, same domain but with a wildcard kinda idea on the local part.
<TwistedLucidity> Such a pain that so many websites can't validate an email address (I am aware of the complexities, but it is perfectly doable)
<TwistedLucidity> To every single one I submit a complaint. I doubt anyone listens.
<diplo> Any of you guys in here used systemd in anger?
<diplo> We're just learning service files, and moving all our stuff over
<MartijnVdS> service files are horrors
<diplo> We have a init script to stop and start a load of services at once, trying to google a way to do that with systemd to have 7 service files being able to be started or stopped by one command but still be able to use the seperate service files to stop each service individually
<MartijnVdS> especially the magic overriding
<MartijnVdS> you can make stuff depend on each other
<diplo> We're finding that, but also like the way some of it works too
<diplo> Yeah, that's what we're leaning towards atm MartijnVdS
<diddledan> mernin
<diddledan> liquid water on mars!
<diddledan> quiet in here this afternoon
<diddledan> I might do something family unfriendly to wake you all up!
 * diddledan scrawls a big thingy on the wall
<zmoylan-pi> the pi is alive \o/
<diddledan> \o/
<zmoylan-pi> good pi, preciousssss pi
<diddledan> good pi, warm pi, little ball of furr
<diddledan> happy pi, err. purr purr purr.
<diddledan> I forget how it goes
<zmoylan-pi> happy pi, sleepy pi, purr purr purr
<zmoylan-pi> had to look it up :-)
<diddledan> aha
<diddledan> lol
<zmoylan-pi> just died at 1030 this morning, 2 rboots didn't happen as it didn't even try to access sd card, then it did but didn't allow web while allowing me to sms in...
<zmoylan-pi> walk away for 3 hours and it comes back all on it's own...
<zmoylan-pi> *me to ssh in
<diddledan> err, yey?
<zmoylan-pi> though irc has been laggy all day on freenode for some reason...
<zmoylan-pi> my other irc servers seem fine
<diddledan> random
<diddledan> cd
<brobostigon> ls
<diddledan> oops
<diddledan> I wondered why that disappeared
<brobostigon> :)
<diddledan> good job it wasn't an sudo followed by a password :-p
<diddledan> this could be a good reason for monotasking or cli-only
<brobostigon> lolz. quite.
 * diddledan wanders off in search of liquids
<diddledan> and back
 * brobostigon has gin and tonic.
<diddledan> :-o
<diddledan> alcohol == evil :-p
<brobostigon> :(
<diddledan> (only 'cos I don't drink much)
<brobostigon> thats what my gf says as well.
<diddledan> I usually go months without drinking anything and then my brother drags me outside and I get bladdered :-p
<brobostigon> usually, me and my gf go out for food every two weeks and then go to the pub afterwards, thats about it.
<daftykins> diddledan: i see, so you leave for your brother but not for your buddy shauno :(
<daftykins> :D
<diddledan> hungry
<Azelphur> This is so strange, the guy who I bought my 4x 4k monitors off, I paid him and he stopped responding 10 days ago, issued a PayPal dispute and will get my money back if he doesn't reply within 7 days
<diddledan> o_O
<diddledan> why did you issue a dispute? are the monitors broken?
<diddledan> or did he not send anything?
<Azelphur> diddledan: he stopped responding and didn't send the monitors
<diddledan> aah
<diddledan> sucky
<diddledan> bar steward!
<Azelphur> well, either that or he stopped responding, sent them and they are in the post
<Azelphur> impossible to know
<daftykins> :S
<diddledan> does seem odd that he's not replying tho
<diddledan> sounds like it might be scammish
<Azelphur> diddledan: yea, except he has 12.5k ebay feedback and this was via paypal, the scam potential here is zero :s
#ubuntu-uk 2015-09-29
<diddledan> dum de dum
<daftykins> dee-da-dee
<diddledan> doo be doo
<diddledan> so apparently happy birthday isn't copyright to the guys who thought it was
<daftykins> indeed!
<daftykins> they've got egg on their faces now
<daftykins> demanding moneys from folk who didn't need to pay
<diddledan> they should have to repay with interest
<daftykins> :D
<diddledan> google are doing stuff later today
<diddledan> DO ALL THE THINGS!
<daftykins> oh yeah 29th
<daftykins> LG 5x looks alright
<diddledan> why do I always read "buffering" with Gs instead of Fs?
<diddledan> it seems to me to be more apt I guess
<daftykins> they could be s's like ye olde english
<daftykins> :D
<diddledan> ye sucker
<diddledan> something like that
<diddledan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJpoOlCbBrw
<diddledan> Alice Tinker: [on TV show] The lesson is taken from the sixth chapter of the Song of Solomon, beginning at the second verse.
<diddledan> Alice Tinker: [reading from the newly presented Bible] Ye are the fault of the earth and fainted... sainted. God shall feel... seal your endeavours until ye fit on his right hand. Therefore fight the good fight, for his... fake, and he shall be thy fu...
<diddledan> Geraldine Granger: *Succour!* He shall be thy succour.
<diddledan> there ya go
<daftykins> o0
<daftykins> did you read about them finding top secret docs plugging the holes in one of the buildings up at Bletchley? :D
<diddledan> no?
<daftykins> pretty funny :) turned out all the actual docs were being pushed up to insulate the place as they worked
<diddledan> hmm, my lumia just rebooted and is applying an update
<diddledan> (it's a cheapo just to see what winphone is like :-p)
<daftykins> :D
<diddledan> no idea what it's installing, 'cos apparently there's no new builds today
<diddledan> (it's enrolled in the insider track)
<diddledan> https://twitter.com/jimchines/status/648290101550841856
<diplo> Morning all
<Moodoo> morning diplo
<davmor2> Morning all
<Moodoo> morning
<zmoylan-pi> and todays fact is...
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Tuesday, and happy World Heart Day! ð  <3
 * JamesTait hugs zmoylan-pi 
<davmor2> JamesTait: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wlR0KElxxVg
<JamesTait> Oh all right then.
 * JamesTait hugs davmor2 as well
<davmor2> JamesTait: hugs all round \o/
 * zmoylan-pi dresses a hungry bear as a linux geek... :-)
 * davmor2 give the bear a jar of honey and hugs him quick, notes zmoylan-pi is next in queue, snatches the honey and throws it to zmoylan-pi and points mouth opened in amazment that someone would snatch the bears honey
 * zmoylan-pi catches the honey, unscrews the cap and dumps contents on davmor2 
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: it's a winnie the pooh style jar of honey there is no lid :P  and uh oh you're in trouble, better watch out, better make it double :)
 * zmoylan-pi then activates the jet powered rocket pants and junior birdmans the hell out of here...
<czajkowski> aloha
<JamesTait> Hi czajkowski! ð
<davmor2> czajkowski: hello
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<czajkowski> how are we all doing today ?
 * zmoylan-pi realises that i didn't check easons for latest linux voice mag yesterday and plans walk to dun laoire to get a copy...
<czajkowski> bit of a walk
<zmoylan-pi> from killiney yes, will be sore when i get home.
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: killiney isn't that what they did on south park every week?
<czajkowski> davmor2: no kilkenny :)
<davmor2> ah I was close :)
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<Moodoo> moaning bigcalm
<zmoylan-pi> and people could learn from the design of the most awesome ui ever :-) https://twitter.com/cabel/status/648680009381511168
<bigcalm> Wow
<zmoylan-pi> i know, right? ;-)
<directhex> time for canonical to throw unity out again, clearly the new UI paradigm lies before us
<zmoylan-pi> now that ui should be called unity as it jams every option onto 1 form :-)
<diddledan> dear lord that ui is evil (from zmoylan-pi earlier)
<diddledan> lol @ the google doodle of mars
<diddledan> that's cute
<diddledan> google announcement in 25 minutes?
<TwistedLucidity> I AM GOOGLE, I NO LONGER HAVE NEED FOR YOU FRAGILE MEATSACKS. BE GONE.
<diddledan> google = skynet?
<TwistedLucidity> I doubt Skynet was that evil.
<diddledan> I think the military should use google for nukes
<diddledan> "ok google. nuke iran"
<brobostigon> lol.
<TwistedLucidity> This missile sponsored by....
<brobostigon> apple
<diddledan> and google now will pop up helpful hints like "would you like to nuke russia?"
<brobostigon> :)
<Myrtti> apparently the phones won't have Qi on them
<diddledan> :-(
<TwistedLucidity> Self driving cars mayhaps? I'd love one. I hate driving. Especially with all the moron who don't KEEP ****ING LEFT!
<Myrtti> I'm mightily disappointed
<diddledan> I want a self-driving car, too
<brobostigon> my nexus 4 from 3 years ago had/has qi charging. so that would be strange.
<diddledan> that way I won't have to finally finish learning to drive
<TwistedLucidity> Self driving cars with gattling guns. I can watch it annihilate all the middle-lane hoggers.....
<diddledan> "ok google. parp him!"
<brobostigon> isnt that a drone?
<diddledan> self-driving drones would be a good idea - especially if you can offload targetting too
<TwistedLucidity> I need an LED sign on the front of the car that say "GET LEFT, MORON >>>" (in mirror writing, obviously)
<diddledan> "a drone attacked moscow. a software fault is blamed"
<TwistedLucidity> "A drone attacked Mo's cow. A software fault is blamed"
<diddledan> poor cow
<zmoylan-pi> and a i am ronnie pickering sign too :-)
<ali12341> guys i have an extremely important question
<ali12341> what was the thing in the intro to picture box anyway? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVTsnSg-MS4
<zmoylan-pi> down the corridor to the left :-)
<TwistedLucidity> ali12341: A display case for jewels, trinkets or other high-value knick-knacks?
<TwistedLucidity> Oh man, the memories https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acOnskcyrtA
<ali12341> possibly, i'm looking for a more detailed answer, like you'd get on antiques roadshow :)
<zmoylan-pi> probably just a portable display case for a religious relic
<TwistedLucidity> Well, it's quite clearly a 1835 boite de art, probably made by Crumbleson and Co of Nantwich based on the design. However the class has been placed at some point in the past; probably to try and keep with the fashions. Of no intrinsic value, but of great sentimental worth I'm sure.
<zmoylan-pi> phew, i just use it to store these funny eggs my great aunt got in russia...
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi, those silly faberge?
<zmoylan-pi> sounds right, keeps the cat amused i can tell you
<ali12341> seems like you're right anwyay
<diddledan> google is streaming here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jc-LEG0T_4c
<ali12341> "glass jewelry casket" on google images brings up many similar objects
<zmoylan-pi> i've seen the like in dublin city centre churches that have relics
<diddledan> 17k people watching a white screen
<zmoylan-pi> there was a time when the relics were paraded, easter, christmas etc.
<zmoylan-pi> it's a smart screen, it's watching back
<diddledan> 25k
<diddledan> 33
<diddledan> video is now dead
<diddledan> \o/
<diddledan> livestreams ftw
<zmoylan-pi> shouldva used facetime
<TwistedLucidity> Only 56k watching? That's not many....
<diddledan> they should have killed the right-side chat stream - I think that's what's killing my browser
<diddledan> aah there's a "hide chat" button /me clicks that hoping that it improves things
<TwistedLucidity> Blocked it/Greasemonkey it away/Hack the HTML
<TwistedLucidity> C'mon man, get to the point!
<TwistedLucidity> OK, a phone. Bored now.
<diddledan> lol
<TwistedLucidity> G'night all, doggies need their walkies.
<popey> he has an odd accent
<popey> irish american?
<diddledan> no idea. I suck at discerning accents :-)
<popey> haha, making excuses why it doesn't have OIS
<diddledan> OIS?
<popey> Optical Image Stabilisation
<diddledan> aah
<popey> which works really well on iOS
<diddledan> yeah
<zmoylan-pi> isn't that your knees? :-)
<Myrtti> please tell it has Qi
<Myrtti> pppplllleeease
<popey> 4k "at normal rate"
<popey> bet that means 30fps, not 60
<diddledan> bah
<diddledan> you're ahead of me
<popey> i like that double tap power = camera
<popey> thats something sony get right
<zmoylan-pi> i think my favourite phone camera was the nokia n70.  had a sliding cover that protected the lens, and when you slid it open it fired up the app...
<ali12341> so when r u going to port ubuntu touch to these?
<popey> hehe
<popey> good question!
<Myrtti> N95 â¥
<popey> we don't support 64-bit yet, or L, let alone M
<davmor2> ali12341: when you buy them for him to port them
<ali12341> zmoylan-pi: the N900 had that too, and also a pretty good camera for the time
<ali12341> unfortunately it had a terrible LED flash
<popey> yeah, my N82 had that open = camera
<popey> loved that phone
<zmoylan-pi> i could take phone out and fire up the app without looking at it, perfect
<popey> yeah
<zmoylan-pi> now, it's take out phone, unlock, find app, start app, moment has passed...
<ali12341> or just press the camera icon on the lock screen?
<zmoylan-pi> still means looking away from what you want to take pic of
<popey> so when does 6.0 drop?
<Myrtti> and will it drop on Nexus5's
<Myrtti> historical pattern would say no
<Myrtti> next week and yes
<popey> heh
<ahayzen> 'doze mode' hah :-)
<Azelphur> has the event started yet for the Nexuses?
<popey> so not nexus 4
<Myrtti> Azelphur: yes?
<Azelphur> oO
<ali12341> in summary: they made some new hones, they're a little bit better than the old phones
<Azelphur> hehe
<popey> I like how he is doing this demo with his phone in airplane mode
<popey> does he have an ethernet device attached (odd icons in indicator area)
<diddledan> haha
<diddledan> that's clever
<diddledan> aah yes that could be a wired network
<diddledan> the <..> is sometimes used for wired
<zmoylan-pi> it's a liquid metal terminator... panic.... \o/
<diddledan> the tablet is wireless
<zmoylan-pi> unpanic \o/
<popey> over used phrases in presentations... "go ahead and"
<diddledan> haha. demo gods!
<popey> :)
<diddledan> they didn't sacrifice any goats.
<popey> "go ahead and" *drink*
<diddledan> K-Rod?
<zmoylan-pi> not a big demo, a 2 chicken sacrifice limit
<diddledan> I'm waiting to hear what they're doing with the chromecast
<popey> JIFF!
<diddledan> popey, CIF
<zmoylan-pi> that boat has cailed :-)
<diddledan> and AJAX. and toilet-duck :-p
<zmoylan-pi> and not war rocket ajax?
<diddledan> I wonder why they felt the need to have colours on a product that is meant to hide behind the tv?
<popey> my father in laws dangles out the side
<popey> uh, the tv
<diddledan> lol
<zmoylan-pi> nice save... :slow handclap: :-P
<popey> lemonade
<popey> ITYM Yellow
<diddledan> I'm not sure it's really lemonade
<popey> That's no lemonade I've ever drunk
<diddledan> luminous yellow/green
<DJones> Melted snow
<DJones> and as the eskimo's say, don't eat yellow snow
<zmoylan-pi> with all those huskies they never mention brown snow...
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi, otherwise known as fudge?
<diddledan> yummy :-p
 * zmoylan-pi makes note never to touch fudge offered by diddledan...
<diddledan> lol
<popey> "go ahead and" *drink*
<popey> "go ahead and" *drink*
<diddledan> popey, you're gonna get drunky monkey
<diddledan> "lets talk about" is another one
<popey> *drink*
<diddledan> let's talk about
<popey> *drink* etc
<Azelphur> Do we have UK prices for the Nexus 5X/6P yet?
<diddledan> go ahead and!
<diddledan> they're really going for the gold medal
<diddledan> Azelphur, not that I'm aware
<DJones> Azelphur: If you buy it through my online shop (which I've still got to set up) it'll cost you Â£999.99, with free delivery, no contract necessary
<Azelphur> lol
<Azelphur> I'm hoping it ends up on Amazon so I can purse it
 * DJones trys to comprehend a bloke saying "I can purse it" :)
<DJones> Thats a badly named system
<diddledan> I don't know what that means
<DJones> diddledan: How many blokes do you know that would use the word "purse"?
<Azelphur> diddledan: http://purse.io
<diddledan> none. I mean I don't know what "purse it" means
<diddledan> oic
<diddledan> silly bitcoins
<Myrtti> murse
<DJones> Ah bitcoins, randomly generated ether monety
 * Azelphur just sits here getting ~40% off all his Amazon purchases, laughs manically.
 * DJones makes a note that Azelphur is Goldfinger but with a dog sat on his lap
<Azelphur> :)
<Myrtti> I just basically hate all the cryptocurrencies with a white hot rage
<DJones> Azelphur: What breed is your dog? Looks huskie like from pictures
<Azelphur> DJones: wat?
<diddledan> I like that pixel c
<DJones> Azelphur: Could be getting mixed up,I see so many dogs via twitter/facebook
<Azelphur> DJones: probably, I was gonna say I don't have / never have had a dog
<DJones> Ah, sorry, getting you mixed up with somebody else
<DJones> Azelphur: Was getting you mixed up with knightwise
<Azelphur> hehe
<Azelphur> they need to hurry up and post them on the play store so I can see pricing :)
 * DJones blames popey's (Whyte & McKay's) yellow lemonade
<Myrtti> I seriously want to see it on store.google.com that the phones don't have Qi
<Azelphur> Myrtti: no qi? :/
<diddledan> store.google.com is updated
<diddledan> yeah looks like no qi
<Azelphur> wow, Â£579 vs $649
<Azelphur> It's literally Â£150 cheaper in the US, that's insane
<diddledan> yeah
<Azelphur> (6P 128GB)
<diddledan> at least they're not doing the apple pricing strategy where 599$ = 599Â£
<zmoylan-pi> well that's what happens when you tax them with no representation...
<Myrtti> no qi.
<Azelphur> no qi is a letdown
<Myrtti> *sigh*
<zmoylan-pi> can you not add qi with a case?
<Myrtti> Fairphone 2 looks appealing now
<Myrtti> zmoylan-pi: and take the USB C out of the picture?
<Azelphur> Yea, I think this may be it for me and Nexus devices. Might get a Sony Xperia Z5 premium
<Azelphur> the price point is so ridiculous
<diddledan> chromecast is 30Â£
<Myrtti> finally with Spotify
<Myrtti> we ordered 2 audios and 1 normal
<Azelphur> http://www.gsmarena.com/compare.php3?idPhone1=7588&idPhone2=7536 Z5 premium will be pretty much the same price
<Azelphur> I assume the US Nexus 6P won't work on UKs 4g bands
<Myrtti> why wouldn't it?
<Azelphur> Myrtti: no phone I've ever seen has 4G in both UK and US? My nexus 5 doesn't
<Myrtti> I can't remember if I got 4G in California
<Azelphur> I didn't, even with a friends sim.
<Azelphur> We tested it, it don't work :)
<Myrtti> I just used my Three sim
<Myrtti> it was great
<Azelphur> Myrtti: three feel at home won't give you 4g abroad, even if your phones hardware could do it.
<Azelphur> Myrtti: I'm a bit of a globetrotter now days :)
<popey> they specifically said the devices go on sale in US and UK at the same time and that they support 4g globally.
<Azelphur> Oh, that's kinda cool
<Azelphur> next time I go to US I could pick one up then, maybe that'd make it worthwhile
<popey> Wonder when partners get AOSP 6
<popey> so nexus 5 x from Â£339, 6p from Â£449
<Azelphur> I mean, Â£428 is slightly more attractive (US price), but honestly it still doesn't stack up against other flagships price wise
<popey> I can see why they broke out the gapps too, not only so you can uninstall them, but also so you don't instantly run out of space on day one
<Azelphur> If Sony committed to getting Android 6 on the Z5 premium, which I imagine they will, I think that'll be my next phone
<popey> directhex isn't having fun with his sony
<Azelphur> oh?
<popey> which other flagship would you look at?
<Azelphur> the S6 is fairly comparable too, and far cheaper
<Azelphur> I've been really on the fence about getting a Sony (I boycotted Sony for a long time), and the whole not being a Nexus thing, but I haven't really found anything to fault them yet, hardware wise they seem to just be strides ahead
 * directhex is shipping his z3c off for repair
<ali12341> the z3 compact is meant to be good
<ali12341> if you want decent hardware without a stupidly big screen
<daftykins> heh i see i can view the google play store for devices these days, but still not allowed to ship items to the Channel Islands
<daftykins> thanks Google!
 * zmoylan-pi wonders if i can get away with using nokia asha 302 as a hammer like i did with n70...
<popey> Azelphur: yeah, I have a natural aversion to Samsung though
<popey> Too cluttered with S junk
<popey> I do like the look of the z3c
<popey> wifey went for a 2nd hand iphone 5c in the end
<popey> I bought one off ebay for 180 quid, went back 2 days later and it's now 280 quid. Hope they fulfill it :S
<davmor2> popey: oh hudl finally gets an upgrade to lollipop now that marshmellow is being released :)
<Azelphur> popey:  me too
<popey> davmor2: it does!?
<brobostigon> hudl2 i think, not the first.
<popey> yeah, thats what I have
<davmor2> brobostigon: that what we have :)
<popey> aha, i see the update, but sam has drained it watching youtube videos. need to charge above 50% to get it
<ali12341> i got one of these http://www.scan.co.uk/products/45-zte-4g-lte-blade-apex-2-smartphonelcd-screen-quad-core-12ghz-4gb-storage-4g-lte-wifi-bt4-android-
<brobostigon> :)
<davmor2> popey: hahaha
<ali12341> you can't really go wrong for that price
<popey> 404
<popey> you have an extra 1 also today.
<ali12341> link works for me
<popey> odd
<popey> works now
<popey> thats quite a bezel
<ali12341> yeah
<ali12341> but it;s Â£50, what do you want?
<daftykins> all the things!
<popey> well indeed
<ali12341> other than the rubbish screen it is roughly equivalent to a moto g
<ali12341> has anyone ever tried ringing up, like, google, and saying "my fingerprints have been stolen, how do i change them?"
<daftykins> i've tried calling them, that was an exercise in frustration to begin with
<daftykins> it took until i said "you do realise you're ignoring everything i say?" to snap the rep out of their script
<diddledan> can you even call google?
<daftykins> yep!
<diddledan> really?
<daftykins> cue explaining the Channel Islands to someone from the south
<daftykins> :>
<diddledan> they don't make that very clear
<popey> yeah i called them to get my phone fixed
<popey> they were awful
<popey> although it seems they're doing paid support now
<popey> turns out that works out well for apple customers
<daftykins> hmm, so like an applecare equivalent?
<popey> yes
<popey> for new nexus devices
<daftykins> that could well be worth it
<Barabossa> hello everyone
<diddledan> hmm, bridge of spies looks like an interesting movie
<daftykins> lo
<diddledan> got tom hanks in it
<daftykins> yay TH
<diddledan> which means a reprisal of forest gump? :-p
<ali12341> 2 forest 2 gump
<popey> lulz
<Barabossa> total noob here, came to learn about what kernel and foss and gnome and terminal mean
<Barabossa> but forget about it, lets talk about forest gump :P
<diddledan> hello Barabossa
<Barabossa> hi :)
<Barabossa> by the way, i live in Barcelona
<Barabossa> am i still allowed in this group?
<diddledan> sure
<Barabossa> will move to london if needed
<diddledan> lol
<Barabossa> actually i'll move to london anyway
<diddledan> no need to move :-)
<Barabossa> (not kidding, next week)
<Barabossa> have a new job, which is why i'm trying to learn a bit about linux
<diddledan> yey
<diddledan> well done - job is good
<Barabossa> well in london its that or live under a bridge i think
<diddledan> hehe
<Barabossa> been searching, london bridge seems nice
<daftykins> :)
<Barabossa> Anyway, let me introduce myself
<Barabossa> Name is Jon
<diddledan> o/
<Barabossa> Belgian, living in Barcelona
<Barabossa> 27, no boobs, sorry
<diddledan> and moving to london - that's some serious internationalisation :-p
<Barabossa> studied politics, best studies to find 0 jobs
<Barabossa> so now working in IT/marketing
<Barabossa> yeah :D
<Barabossa> like to travel around a bit
<daftykins> good for you, staying in the same spot can definitely limit things
<Barabossa> yeah, i guess
<Barabossa> on the other hand, you feel like you never ever belong anywhere
<Barabossa> and only keep your best best friends
<Barabossa> anyway, how about you guys?
<daftykins> i live on the island of Guernsey and do a bit of IT support for small biz
<diddledan> interesting - they've made a sequel to olympus has fallen
<diddledan> called london has fallen
<brobostigon> north cotswolds, accentric, aspie.
<diddledan> basing^Hamazingstoke
<diddledan> :-p
<diddledan> amazingstoke is .. well .. amazing :-D
<daftykins> get stoked for amazingstoke
<brobostigon> north cotswolds, accentric, human wizard*, aspie.
<diddledan> I'll just state that I'm a genius and leave it at that
<brobostigon> i used to use the name, leovinus, the biggest genius in all the universe who desgined start ship titanic.
<brobostigon> starship titanic*
<diddledan> that's available on gog.com now
<diddledan> 5.99
<brobostigon> book or game?
<diddledan> game
<brobostigon> or both
<brobostigon> great gane, :)
<diddledan> I don't know if they have the book too
<diddledan> but gog is mainly games - if they have the book it'll be as a bonus to purchasing the game
<brobostigon> took me about 6 months to finish, when we firt got it, late 90's.
<diddledan> I remember that it included fraunhofer's mp3 codec as a separate installation step
<brobostigon> yep.
<diddledan> craycray the random things you remember
<Barabossa> talking about games; y'all hyped for SteamOS ?
<daftykins> i don't think it'll do anything for my usage of PC gaming personally
<Barabossa> i agree with you
<Barabossa> don't see the point for anyone except buyers of steam machines
<Barabossa> or mac users
<Barabossa> however, indirectly i hope it will push developers into developing more for linux
<brobostigon> used to play doom and quake, but play D&D and magic more now.
<diddledan> I don't really play anything
<daftykins> mind you i'm more on consoles due to friends being less on the PC
<popey> I'm considering a SteamOS box
<brobostigon> my aspieness didnt like when i was younger being around other people, so it was computer games and not games that involved other people and groups, but now i am older, i like games like D&D with groups.
<Barabossa> :) cool
<Barabossa> I like D&D too
<brobostigon> :)
<Barabossa> though i haven't played it too often
<brobostigon> what charecter do you play?
<Barabossa> have a dragonborn figurine somewhere
<Barabossa> and regarding magic
<Barabossa> white mono for the win
<Barabossa> will exile your mobs all day long
<brobostigon> fireball, :)
<Barabossa> haha
<Barabossa> yeah, lost against a friend a few weeks ago
<Barabossa> with a mono red deck
<Barabossa> took him 4 turns
<diddledan> for those on virgin - we're not doubling to 300Mbps this year - the october upgrade is to 200: http://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2015/09/virgin-media-boosts-top-uk-vivid-cable-broadband-speeds-to-200mbps.html
<brobostigon> Barabossa: mine is vintage red.
<daftykins> diddledan: mmm and Thursday too so i read
<Barabossa> goblins?
<brobostigon> Barabossa: vintage as in the deck format, as i use cards in my decks from over the last 15 years, and i use red.
<Barabossa> i see
<Barabossa> yeah i don't really play vintage
<brobostigon> a mixture of, i should say.
<Barabossa> cause i gave all my old cards away when i was 18 or so
<diddledan> grr. they're not upping the upload speed :-(
<diddledan> "the new 200Mbps tier remaining on uploads of 12Mbps"
<Barabossa> btw @diddledan what's that with the internet?
<diddledan> 12 is pitiful
<diddledan> hmm?
<Barabossa> i just dont get what its about
<diddledan> virgin media is a cable phone/tv/broadband provider - they're upgrading their speed caps
<Barabossa> 200 is still pretty good no :P ?
<Barabossa> think i have 10 here :P
<diddledan> yes 200 is good for internet-to-you but their you-to-internet speed is stuck at 12
<Barabossa> ah
<Barabossa> the upload
<Barabossa> ok :P
<Barabossa> yeah 12 is not very amazing
<Barabossa> btw, which ISP is do you recommend?
<Barabossa> in the UK ?
<Barabossa> not that i have a flat yet or so
<Barabossa> ill airbnb a bit while looking for one
<Barabossa> but would be good to know already
<Barabossa> noob question for you guys
<Barabossa> do you know how i can install a .tar.xz file?
<brobostigon> more context required, please.
<Barabossa> hmm ok sorry
<Barabossa> trying to install this
<Barabossa> https://launchpad.net/synapse-project
<Barabossa> if i click on the download button i just get some random code
<Barabossa> like not even code
<Barabossa> tried before with http://www.sublimetext.com/2
<diddledan> virgin are a fairly good provider for mass-market - their headline download speeds are pretty well regarded. alternatively there's bt's infinity product at 80mbps/20mbps split. though if you want power user and don't mind a limit on the amount of data you can transfer in a month then there's aaisp (andrews & arnold) or zen
<diddledan> every provider except virgin use bt phone lines to deliver the service via either adsl or fttc/p whereas virgin are a pure cable provider
<Barabossa> cool
<Barabossa> just checked andrews and arnold
<Barabossa> but isnt it weird to be power user but have data limits?
<diddledan> yeah
<Barabossa> :D haha
<Barabossa> ok
<Barabossa> so virgin is the fastest i presume?
<diddledan> virgin are the fastest unless you can get fttp (fibre all the way into your home)
<ali12341> i'm not sure i really trust aaisp tbh
<diddledan> oh?
<ali12341> they claim that other ISPs are cheap because light users are subsidizing it
<ali12341> yet their cheapest package is more expensive than most ISPs unlimited package, while having a smaller limit than most ISPs minimum tier
<ali12341> this doesn't make sense
<Myrtti> zen is good
 * zleap uses zen, definatley recommend them
<Barabossa> sorry
<Barabossa> steam made pc crash
<Barabossa> and ctrl alt delete doesnt work in ubuntu i guess
<daftykins> ctrl+alt+F1 would take you to a TTY where you could diagnose :)
<daftykins> (if it hadn't fully crashed)
<ali12341> !dontzap
<ali12341> bah
<popey> davmor2: that update isn't Android L
<popey> it's still 4.4.2 here.
<popey> oh, here comes another one
<popey> 1030MB in size
<popey> holy hell
<zleap> that is a big update
<diddledan> popey: another update?
<popey> ooh, android 5.1 apparently
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/8hw7powzmwmsusu/IMG_20150929_220328.jpg?dl=0
<daftykins> :D
<popey> dem palm rests
<popey> also, neomagic :)
<daftykins> yip! 800x600 screen
<daftykins> i actually used this at Uni in 2005
<popey> bad memories of the dell latitude machines with trackball
<popey> think they were 486
<popey> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Dell-Latitude-XP-retro-Intel-486-laptop-/111633453477
<popey> hehe, one of them
 * popey remembers making a disk image for those which had dos 6.22 and windows 3.11 working _perfectly_
<popey> had to dial into the Dell BBS to get drivers.
<popey> Happy days
<daftykins> ouch :)
<daftykins> seems the CD-Rs i have are too small for lubuntu
<daftykins> i'm being optimistic with an overburn attempt
<diddledan> \o/
<diddledan> you need a triple-layer blurry dis
<diddledan> disk
<daftykins> disc!
<diddledan> ops
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/b4cburppnojm19d/IMG_20150929_223539.jpg?dl=0
<dogmatic69_> anyone here that was around for my wifi issues, I broke down and bought some eth->wifi AP's off ebay... they work great
<dogmatic69_> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/201384130690
<diddledan> \o/
<diddledan> dogmatic69_: cheat :-p
<dogmatic69_> cant go wrong for Â£8
<diddledan> nice
<dogmatic69_> and it does wifi extend, eg: wifi -> wifi and AP, eth -> wifi
<diddledan> I'm guessing not 802.11AC :-p
<dogmatic69_> I get 40Mb/s on speedtest.net in the same room
<diddledan> that's fairly decent
<dogmatic69_> yes
<dogmatic69_> actually, it was 49Mbps...
<dogmatic69_> quite a nice GUI on the device too. not even broken English on the instruction leaflet..
<daftykins> that *is* a rarity!
<dogmatic69_> at first I did not even look at the leaflet, but after all the other good I had a look and was shocked. thick paper, glossy images, decent English....
<daftykins> i think you should pay them more ;)
<dogmatic69_> When I bought them I was thinking, "well, its only Â£8 if it does not work..."
<dogmatic69_> lol
<dogmatic69_> shhhh
<diddledan> popey: encryption ftw?
<diddledan> so edward @snowden is now twittered
<Azelphur> popey: fyi https://www.reddit.com/r/Nexus/comments/3mv0sy/thread_for_european_nexus_fans_any_other/cvijsel
<diddledan> I think marketing need to synergise our iot roi with mvp's
<popey> nice
<Azelphur> so nope, no buying the US version I guess
<daftykins> zomg the lubuntu progress bar is at the end!
<daftykins> only 2hrs after booting the CD-R
<diddledan> and management need to analyse the synergies of our business processes to capitalise on realtime customer stories
<daftykins> diddledan: you didn't say cloud yet
<diddledan> oh yeah. cloud.
<diddledan> and agile
<diddledan> probably need some rest in there too
<daftykins> oh and 'dynamic'
#ubuntu-uk 2015-09-30
<daftykins> 2.5hrs later, lubuntu installed and booted
<daftykins> haha 4MB RAM free on boot
<diddledan> yey?
<diddledan> 4MB!!
<diddledan> that's awesome!
<diddledan> I wish I had 4MB
<daftykins> 90MB free if i stop X :)
<diddledan> who needs guis anyway
<daftykins> ikr
<daftykins> i essentially did all this because another helper got on my back about saying it was a waste of time supporting the suggestion to put lubuntu on a 1GHz celeron with 256MB RAM
<daftykins> i said it would be unusable
<diddledan> haha
<diddledan> he must be an eejit :-p
<daftykins> just a bit optimistic ^_^
<daftykins> poor little thing is slugging its' guts out doing a dist-upgrade
<diddledan> ouch
<diddledan> I think you might need to consider euthanasia
<daftykins> :)
<diddledan> I wonder why I disconnected at bang-on 02:00:01
 * daftykins whistles
<diddledan> you didn't take me up on the euthanasia idea and kill my connection, did you?
<daftykins> maaaaaybe, it was the closest thing!
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> I think google should do one of these type of things: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amazon_Echo
<daftykins> heeeey, interesting that says Lab126
<daftykins> if i look at the hardware page under systeminfo, in Kodi... on the amazon FireTV, it says "HARDWARE: LAB126 BUELLER"
<daftykins> :>
<daftykins> coincidence as i just looked at that
<ali12341> diddledan: every android phone is one of those type of things
<ali12341> with M, they listen for "ok google" all the time, even when turned off (standby)
<daftykins> you have to be really into those gimmicky features :D
<ali12341> also, one time i installed ubuntu on a 486 with 64MB of RAM
<ali12341> it took over an hour to boot up
<daftykins> :)
<daftykins> this ones screen dissolves into a mess of artefacting after a couple of minutes at the desktop
<daftykins> someone claims it's heat but it doesn't even get that warm
<ali12341> could be thermal expansion causing breaks in the PCB traces
<ali12341> if the board has gone bad, it wouldn't even need to get that warm to cause problems
<Moodoo> morning all
<diplo> Morning Moodoo / all :)
<Moodoo> :)
<TwistedLucidity> We're almost halfway there, we can survive the next two-and-a-bit days!
<Moodoo> I don't know, i want to sit at my desk and cry lol
<davmor2> popey: I'm on 5.1 and lollipop here
<davmor2> morning all
<Myrtti> really don't know what to do with the new Nexuses
<davmor2> Myrtti: flash ubuntu and have a party?
<Myrtti> davmor2: it's not Android I'm having trouble with
<davmor2> Myrtti: what's up
<Myrtti> the new ones don't have Qi :-(
<Myrtti> we've got a grand total of 7 Qi chargers now, latest two we bought from IKEA bargain corner for 18 quid just a week or so ago
<Myrtti> well, 5 devices and 7 charging spots
<davmor2> Myrtti: then don't buy the new ones
<Myrtti> but new phones!
<Myrtti> ;___;
<Myrtti> sad trombone, I got my first Nexus in a Google event for free in 2010
<Myrtti> we've had almost all the nexuses bar Nexus S and Q
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Wednesday, and happy International Translation Day! ð
<davmor2> Myrtti: ha I love it, USB C offers faster charging that even wireless charging which is why it was dropped :)
<Myrtti> davmor2: faster charging isn't the point tho
<Myrtti> atleast for me
<davmor2> Myrtti: no but maybe it was for google
<Myrtti> sure, I understand that
<Myrtti> I understand it being the reason worth dropping it for many people
<Myrtti> it doesn't help with my lamentation over the issue
<davmor2> JamesTait: if your school was the same as mine then this will make you smile https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xM0UyNqrS0o
<davmor2> Myrtti: maybe you can buy a case for it that has the qi bits in that can charge the device via the usb c, or maybe you can create one
<davmor2> Myrtti: not as convenient but at least all you QI chargers don't go to waste
<davmor2> So this morning head song starts Hey Girl, Hey Boy, Super Style DJ here we go.  Yet the song is called Hey Boy Hey Girl go figure
<JamesTait> No, davmor2., this morning's head song is now Alouette, you git. ð
<davmor2> JamesTait: Song for every occasion that's me :) and you're welcome for that cultural trip down memory lane :)
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<brobostigon> morning bigcalm
<davmor2> Best bumper sticker eva! http://img.odometer.com/slides/3/6/6/3/0/1/3663014249/da2ad3c17a8dde4047ef1dca50eadcc0d2bd54ca.jpeg
<foobarry> can anyone explain electronic prescriptions?
<foobarry> how do they work/
<DJones> Dr types the prescription into his computer & gets sent to the nominated pharmacy
<DJones> Presumably using a secure system rather than just email
<foobarry> i filled out a form at the chemist, do i have to fill out a form at the docs too?
<zmoylan-pi> or... just email :-)
<foobarry> "Ask any pharmacy or dispensing appliance contractor that offers EPS or your GP practice to add
<foobarry> your nomination for you. You donât need a computer to do this."
<foobarry> sounds like i dont need to go to doc surgery to add it
<DJones> Chemist will probably send the form to the Dr's, I filled in a form at the doctors nominating a chemist, didn't have to do it in both places
<foobarry> thx guys
<diplo> Anyone use web whatsapp ? I'm not sure about it.. use Telegram most of the time but one person won't use it and I am getting fed up of picking my phone up rather than using a desktop app :)
<zmoylan-pi> set up a vnc server on your phone and vnc into it to send the message? :-)
<foobarry> diplo: tried it out, yeah
<diplo> Anygood foobarry ?
<diplo> Read it had a security vuln but that's been fixed... but you had to click a vcard to do it which I wouldn't anyway
<foobarry> its  bit meh
<foobarry> but so is hangouts web page
<zmoylan-pi> run android in vm on desktop and use app in that :-)
<diplo>  Need a number though zmoylan-pi ? As it sends a text.. I guess I could sign up to something and do that... but web sounds easier :D
<diplo> I'll give it a go  Iguess
<zmoylan-pi> seems crazy when you can only get a mobile app...
<diplo> I *WILL* get them on Telegram soon
<diplo> :D
<diplo> Less people on different chats the better
<zmoylan-pi> email it is...
<foobarry> you can run 1 android app on linux
<foobarry> through chrome
<diplo> Considering the profession I'm in, I seriously suck at email
<diplo> I forget to reply or read it half the time
<Seeker> you can read email now?
<diplo> :)
<Seeker> when did they start letting pople do that? I've been ignoring it for almost 20 years
 * diddledan shivers
 * zmoylan-pi walks over diddledan's grave...
<diddledan> Seeker: email is meant to be ignored. why else would google give you a huge storage capacity?
<zmoylan-pi> i'll have you know i get 5mb of storage from my email provider... :-P
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi: sounds like the competition when gmail launched :-p
<diddledan> hotmail gave you 15MB IIRC while google started out at 1GB
<diddledan> yoohoo now offer 1TB
<zmoylan-pi> i spent a few mins flushing out old emails in gmail to get it below 90% capacity a few weeks back
<TwistedLucidity> You only need 15mb, but the marketing cretins insist on sending bloated HTML.
<diddledan> http://zacklive.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/apple_blueprint-1280x800.jpg
<diddledan> teehee
<foobarry> best cd ripper for buntu?
<diddledan> foobarry: for music?
<diddledan> I tend to just use the rythmbox facility
<TwistedLucidity> Handbrake for DVDs...CDs...be interested to hear about a good one.
<davmor2> +1 for rhythmboxs own also sound juicer is is good still
<davmor2> cli the best is abcde
<davmor2> dvd/bluray makemkv
<diddledan> yeah, makemkv is good for dvd/blurry
<Moodoo> soundjuicer is another good on
<davmor2> foobarry: I found that abcde gave crisper mp3's than rb or soundjuicer as they both use variable bit rate even though it says 128bit etc. however if you don't care about format or quality rb or soundjuicer are way easier to setup
<foobarry> rhythmbox doesn't work really, the sound settings are non editable
<foobarry> there's an old bug about it
<foobarry> might have been fixed by now
<davmor2> foobarry: you need to install the other backends
<foobarry> hold the line, looking for bug #
 * foobarry plays wind pipes
<davmor2> pan pipes
<foobarry> #945987
<foobarry> bug 945987
<lubotu3`> bug 945987 in transmageddon (Ubuntu Precise) "No Settings are available in "Preferred format", only preset defaults are used" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/945987
<foobarry> Sorry to bring this up again, but despite all fixes, it still doesn't work here.
<foobarry> Rhythmbox will ignore all settings and invariably create a quality 0.3 vorbis file, no matter what I do.
<foobarry> unclear as to the status of that actual bug
<foobarry> soundjuicer has no editable mp3 bitrate settings
<foobarry> it's in rhytmbox now, wonder if this works!
<davmor2> foobarry: worked for me in wily
<foobarry> look at you with your wily
<foobarry> what's a good variable bit rate setting please?
<diddledan> davmor2: wave that wily
<foobarry> i.e 192 constant roughly = 6 ?
<bigcalm> That's a terribly rude name
<diddledan> bigcalm: yes. I am struggling to remain family friendly
<foobarry> like the hairy hardon version
<foobarry> woops
<davmor2> bigcalm: I agree! diddledan stop saying wave as a name ;)
<foobarry> ogg quality settings seem to be the reverse of mp3 vbr settings !
<foobarry> davmor2: does a CD icon appear on the left hand list in rhythmbox?
<davmor2> foobarry: did for me
<foobarry> ah, i had to mount it
<foobarry> is musicbrainz still going?
<foobarry> i never get matches. maybe i'm too obscure (i tihnk not)
<davmor2> foobarry: I think with stream less people are buying cd and so they are not being updated as often as they were
<diplo> foobarry: I still use freedb ?
<diplo> cdex does a good job of it for me
<foobarry> diplo: cdex is windows or lin?
<diplo> Windows, but I use it in linux as well
<diplo> Works perfectly well under Wine
<diplo> I prefer it to a lot of the other linux apps
<diplo> Also use mp3tag.de to fix stuff as well, also works well under wine
<foobarry> not sure if rhythmbox allows it
<diplo> Allows what ?
<foobarry> anything other than musicbrainz?
<diplo> You're changing the id3 tags I'm guessing ?
<foobarry> some ripping apps i've used allow you to choose the db source
<diplo> Or images to mp3's ? Sorry all I read was musicbrainz which last I heard was for tagging/name
<diplo> Ah right, sorry these are seperate ripping programs
<foobarry> yep, this is for tagging when i rip tem
<diplo> Can't believe theyt don't use freedb anymore ?
<diplo> I had so many issues with Linux progs I tried the ones I used on windows on it and never looked back
<diplo> :/
 * foobarry checks for a rhythmbox plugin
<foobarry> this is the linux desktop problem
<foobarry> no one app that does it all well
<davmor2> foobarry: abcde
<foobarry> not wife friendly
<diplo> Yep, although I don't use music players to tag my stuff in windows either
<diplo> I use specific programs that do a job well
<foobarry> a good ripper should tag at rip time
<davmor2> foobarry: https://wiki.gnome.org/Apps/Rhythmbox/Plugins/ThirdParty
<foobarry> davmor2: thanks, i was on that page, got scared off by the cddb plugin's age, and gnome2 mentioned
<diplo> cdex does that for me foobarry :)
<foobarry> is it free oSS diplo ?
<diplo> Nope :/
<davmor2> foobarry: https://github.com/HessiJames/soundkonverter/wiki and https://github.com/HessiJames/soundkonverter/wiki/Feature%20list might be worth a look at
<foobarry> diplo: just gon ethru 3 screens of "install this malware?"
<foobarry> to get cdex installed
<diddledan> yey. malware!
<diplo> I've not installed it in years, been on this machine for 5+~ years
<diddledan> foobarry: I hope you selected "heck yes, I want evilwares!"
<diddledan> I really hate that to get the ask toolbar I have to download java :-(
<foobarry> hihihih
<Laney> things you don't hear every day
<Azelphur> http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B012VFLIOI Interesting deal, does anyone know about the prohttp://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B012VFLIOIbability of getting Ubuntu running on it?
<Azelphur> Haha, I love the good old delayed paste if your a multi x screen user bug, can't wait to be rid of multi X screens \o/
<bigcalm> Where do peeps go for their packs of multiple network cables these days? Looking at something like these http://www.amazon.co.uk/Multi-cable-multi-coloured-Cat5e-cables/dp/B00IO0FI2S
<foobarry> oh hooray rhythmbox crashed already
<davmor2> foobarry: seriously take a look at sound konvertor :)
<foobarry> davmor2: but all those kde libs :)
<foobarry> 200mb :(
<diddledan> \o/
<foobarry> hope its less ugly than cdex
<diddledan> it's kde. of course it's ugly.
<foobarry> at least it matches CD tracks \o/
 * TwistedLucidity quite likes KDE; just wish Plasma 5 was more stable.
<foobarry> davmor2: do you use this soundkonverter regularly?
<foobarry> seems to have good array of features
<foobarry> wondering what "high" mp3 means. doesn't explain VBR etc
<davmor2> foobarry: Not at all I was looking for a gui app that had the features of abcde that was top of the list
<foobarry> does amazon prime streaming have anything good?
<foobarry> seems to be old tat that i would never dream of watching if it was on freeview
<davmor2> foobarry: http://www.stuff.tv/features/netflix-vs-amazon-vs-now-tv-battle-streaming-services
<foobarry> realised i only have 3 weeks left of the trial :S
<diddledan> https://www.dropbox.com/s/2tupvuhukn0n2iv/Screenshot%202015-09-30%2021.01.20.png?dl=0
<diddledan> teehee
<zmoylan-pi> but the big javascript book will prop up a wobbly sofa... :-)
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<zleap> hi
<diddledan> allo
<daftykins> \o
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<daftykins> oy, setting up a new synology 2 bay NAS but it's beginning to seem like perhaps the disks aren't as healthy as they seem...
<diddledan> daftykins: throw it at the wall and try again
<daftykins> :)
<zmoylan-pi> tried that approach with a nokia once... damaged the wall...
<bigcalm> Given a hashed password from /etc/shadow, how easy is it to crack?
<diddledan> bigcalm: hard
<diddledan> bigcalm: you need to brute-force it
<zmoylan-pi> do you have access to a lump hammer and the person who's password it is? :-P
<bigcalm> Hard enough for it to be okay to store hashed passwords in a private git repo?
<daftykins> isn't this one of those situations where someone could spin up an amazon instance to throw lots of work at it, if they cared enough - paying only a few pence for the time?
<bigcalm> I'm provisioning some servers. If I store the password hashes, I can automate the user creation as well
<popey> phew
 * popey is pooped
<bigcalm> Better than being poped
<diddledan> popey: wb
<popey> long day is long
<daftykins> oh dear, and the culprit shows itself on delaying a desktop machines POST and boot...
<daftykins> now to use the high tech piece of hardware - the ear - to pick the winner
<diddledan> o_O
<zmoylan-pi> i always found that resting hand on drive would let you feel the heads move.  handy in noisy environment.  good old vulcan drive meld :-)
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> weird, the other one is still preventing boot
 * diddledan melds with his computer
<zmoylan-pi> and remember... my drive to your drive, your drive to my drive...
 * diddledan is liquid metal
 * diddledan makes a stabby finger
<daftykins> holy moly this thing is still in warranty
<daftykins> recertified on the 22nd may 2012 :D
<diddledan> \o/ RMA
<daftykins> it's itself a replacement
<zmoylan-pi> the nas went back the very next year... âª â«
<daftykins> ah the unit was diskless thankfully, this was trying to put some old ones from that WD unit into a synology
<daftykins> oh ok the other one is toast too 8D
<daftykins> 1191 pending sectors, 75 reallocated
<daftykins> diddledan: i am the disk reaper
<zmoylan-pi> yay, i shall walk through the data recovery lab and i shall fear no data loss as i have 2 reliable backups
<daftykins> only 2!?
<daftykins> aww this other disk has no warranty
<zmoylan-pi> of the unimportant replaceable stuff... more of the important stuff
<directhex> my phone is off for RMA
<directhex> wonder if they'll piss & moan about liquid damage
<daftykins> did you get annoyed and drown it? :)
<daftykins> directhex + arsenip - someone purporting to be an old quakenet-er identified me yesterday, spoke of hanging out with arc and Rys over on some other server O_O
<daftykins> i'm nipping up to England again on the 8th btw folks, if anyone is on the path between Gatwick airport, Hatfield and Brighton
#ubuntu-uk 2015-10-01
 * diddledan bounces
 * zmoylan-pi applies superglue...
 * daftykins watches an amazingstokian bounce down the road atop a bouncy ball
<zmoylan-pi> monkey dust springs to mind for some reason... :-)
<daftykins> i believe we have a user with that nick in #ubuntu !
<daftykins> not online right now though ;)
<zmoylan-pi> locked up for some reason... :-P
<daftykins> time for a new kernel
<zmoylan-pi> just in time for... pie... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-jHvjOpRTZY
<daftykins> 1.5 pie?
<diddledan> I really should sleep
<diddledan> -_-
<daftykins> yes young man
<diddledan> let's commit these changes to git :-)
<diddledan> and now to file a pull-request
<daftykins> it's all gon' be broken in the morning
<daftykins> \o/
<diddledan> https://github.com/erming/shout/pull/506
 * diddledan rocks your socks
<daftykins> heh, the first failed 1TB i left zeroing, it's now got 800 reallocated sectors and 450+ pending
<Moodoo> morning all
<diplo> Morning all
<Moodoo> :)
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<Moodoo> morning
<brobostigon> morning Moodoo
<SuperMatt> http://devopsreactions.tumblr.com/post/130259293751/classic-development-cycle
<TwistedLucidity> SuperMatt: That looks like the same art style as the chap who doe's "Simon's Cat"
<TwistedLucidity> "doe's"? "doe's"???? I need more coffee......
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Thursday, and happy International Coffee Day! ð  ðµ
<Myrtti> Also podcast day, apparently
<Myrtti> or was it yesterday?
<JamesTait> Myrtti, I missed that one.  I should probably keep a calendar or something.
<zmoylan-pi> just pretend you're a time traveller come back to buy a lottery ticket with the winning numbers...
<davmor2> JamesTait: you asked, I gave https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=POv-3yIPSWc
<Moodoo> davmor2: you are a complete ****
<davmor2> Moodoo: it says grind coffee
<Moodoo> I'm raising you - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ZS2-4-iUJ4
<zmoylan-pi> i would have said @!#$ but then my word of the day was grawlix :-)
<davmor2> Moodoo: but that has nothing to do with coffee
<Moodoo> ah get you now, my bad
<davmor2> Moodoo: if it was just god awful songs I can trump you a million times over and still have a long list left :)
 * zmoylan-pi hums the birdy song...
 * davmor2 hands zmoylan-pi Mr Blobby to hum as an updated version 
<czajkowski> TELLY Tubbies people clearly!  Eh o!
<zmoylan-pi> i can't actually remember mr. blobby song AND am not going to click on a link to it :-)
<davmor2> czajkowski: you might of missed the mr blobby song if you think telly tubbies was bad
<zmoylan-pi> i did use to use postman pat theme tune as hold music at work and leave people on hold for 10-15 minutes as punishment if they were rude...
<czajkowski> no idea of Mr.Blobby
<czajkowski> so I'm ok there :)
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JAIOzM7SsMo
<zmoylan-pi> mr. blobby song seems to have been so bad we sucessfully unremembered it
<davmor2> Moodoo: ^ you'll like that one too for a trump to startrekking too :)
<davmor2> NO SLEEP TILL BEDTIME!
<zmoylan-pi> you are feeling sleepy....
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: lyrics from the song
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<bigcalm> Given a 3rd party apt source, what would make apt-get update 404 on that source when I can wget the files from it?
<bigcalm> Problem is, this is happening on a hosted server, not in dev
<Laney> bigcalm: try -o Debug::Acquire::http=true
<bigcalm> Ta
<bigcalm> Laney: is there a way to output that to a file? using > foo.txt didn't include the debug info
<Laney> bigcalm: it's probably on stderr, so 2>foo
<bigcalm> Ta
<bigcalm> It was erring on not finding the gpg key. Looks like my wget line to install the key wasn't good enough
<bigcalm> Thanks Laney
<bigcalm> Nope, it's still not working. Quite frustrating
<bigcalm> Is there a way to tell apt-get to ingnore the 404?
<bigcalm> Fixed it with help from coworker: sudo apt-get update -o 'Acquire::http::Proxy=""'
<davmor2> bigcalm: why were you not using sudo apt-key adv --keyserver keyserver.ubuntu.com --recv-keys ?
<davmor2> + the key at the end obviously
<bigcalm> davmor2: because it's following https://docs.newrelic.com/docs/servers/new-relic-servers-linux/installation-configuration/servers-installation-ubuntu-debian#apt and the key wasn't the actual issue
<bigcalm> davmor2: the issue was that it was trying to use a proxy that was getting in the way
<davmor2> bigcalm: http://askubuntu.com/questions/7470/how-to-run-sudo-apt-get-update-through-proxy-in-commandline
<davmor2> bigcalm: or http://askubuntu.com/questions/257290/configure-proxy-for-apt
<bigcalm> I don't know what the proxies are
<bigcalm> This has worked, I've moved onto the next task
<ujjain> why do Fulham supporters chant about Manchester when they play Norwich?
<davmor2> ujjain: everyone hates Manchester
<Azelphur> I'm having real fun with my Korean import monitors this round, no communication for 2 weeks (so opened a item not received paypal dispute) now he's making excuses (stuck in customs, there was a Korean holiday), but ignoring my requests for a tracking number
<Azelphur> (And paypals requests, amusingly
<davmor2> Azelphur: I wonder if they celebrate something similar to Golden week in china where they have nearly 10 days off
<Azelphur> nah, they had a holiday 26th through 29th, but that doesn't explain why he didn't reply to me for 2 weeks
<popey> is this for those super massive cheap monitors?
<Azelphur> yup
<diddledan> lol: https://twitter.com/Snowden/status/649611018893684736
<diddledan> flaming rockets at http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/nasatv/
<davmor2> so dario g sunchyme complete rip off of dream academe's life in a northern town
<davmor2> that's todays interesting musical fact
<davmor2> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wLQNrr15sA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1YTqmMDd3zs :)  You decide :)
<diddledan> they are very simular
<diddledan> so women are twittering photos of their bra straps right now?
<diddledan> under the hashtag of #showyourstrap
<popey> yeah
<popey> M&S thing for breast cancer awareness
<diddledan> bonus is it boosts sales by encouraging people to buy new bras so their strap isn't greyed?
<MartijnVdS> are jock straps allowed too?
<diddledan> lol
<popey> hello MartijnVdS, not seen you for a while, hows it going?
<MartijnVdS> popey: Things are well :)
<MartijnVdS> Work is very busy these days though
<Moodoo> work always gets in the way of things doesn't it
<MartijnVdS> yeah
<diddledan> o_O https://www.humblebundle.com/monthly
<diddledan> :-o drupal8 might go release-candidate at any moment! (it has zero critical issues now)
<zmoylan-pi> zero known critical issues :-)
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> the tracking of known criticals has been the yardstick of when it goes to release candidate tho
<daftykins> :D
<zmoylan-pi> it assumes that everyone who finds a critical error reports it
<daftykins> 'anywhere between zero and one!'
<daftykins> which incidentally is the number of atmospheres the Planet Express ship from Futurama can withstand
<diddledan> there's zero criticals for large values of critical
<diddledan> zero**
<diddledan> large values of zero*
<zmoylan-pi> in my last job we used the md.  the bugger could make any software crash.  it was a gift
<daftykins> lmao
<daftykins> the higher up they get...
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi: and when the md breaks it you tell him "but it works on my machine" and release anyway
<daftykins> huzzah \o/
<zmoylan-pi> you'd ask him to test software you'd written and reckoned was bullet proof.  2 minutes later, crash. you'd have to sit and watch what he did to find out as he never remembered
<diddledan> yeah see he obviously uses it in a manner that isn't appropriate - it's not that the software was broken, it's that he was using it wrong
<zmoylan-pi> a lot of times yes but sometimes software just died when he was sat in front of it and never for anyone else
<daftykins> <MD> nope zmoylan-pi, this screensaver organiser simply doesn't work. <zmoylan-pi> but it's a spreadsheet...
<zmoylan-pi> i saw  word processors die when he just typed at random into it
<daftykins> must be one of those types with a certain magnetism
<zmoylan-pi> he used to be quite competent.  he used to walk people through doing soldering repairs to their cpm computers over the phone.
<zmoylan-pi> think about that for a moment
<zmoylan-pi> plug in the soldering iron and place it in such a way as to not let the tip touch anything as it will burn
<zmoylan-pi> now lets open your computer and resolder the cpu that has cracked soldering joints...
<zmoylan-pi> and save me a drive of 3 hours to get there
<daftykins> :S
<daftykins> sounds painful
<zmoylan-pi> i don't think he ever lost a computer that way...
<zmoylan-pi> those cpms were very forgiving
<diddledan> I really got some catching-up to do - I haven't seen all of series1 of agents of shield yet and season 3 started this week (I think it was this week, aanyway)
#ubuntu-uk 2015-10-02
<diddledan> show me the wily (werewolf)!
 * diddledan sniggers
<diddledan> where's shauno?
<diddledan> he's been absent some time
<daftykins> i thought you knew!
<daftykins> he got upset about some fruity tech bashing and ragequit on us a while back :(
<diddledan> oh?
<diddledan> how random
<daftykins> is he in any of your haunts?
<diddledan> I went looking but can't see him
<Myrtti> he is on #raspberrypi, gave me advice about the screen today
<diddledan> hmm
<daftykins> :(
<diddledan> traitor :-p
<Myrtti> or was, didn't check if he's online now
<Myrtti> yes, he is online
 * m0nkey_ waves
<daftykins> \o
<m0nkey_> Turns out I crossed a toll bridge a couple weeks ago. They sent me a very nice picture of the back of my new car :)
<m0nkey_> Cost me a grand total of $7.46
<daftykins> hmm, no markings to pay then and there?
<m0nkey_> All electronic
<m0nkey_> No toll booths
<daftykins> ah, i've seen those things for up in Maine
<m0nkey_> It was Autoroute 25, crossing from Laval to Montreal. I know for next time not to take it :)
<DJones> Morning all
<leecowdrey_> indeed morning....
<DJones> Although I can't tell by looking out of the window, its all gray and foggy
<davmor2> Morning all bit of styx stuck in my head this morning
<davmor2> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3cShYbLkhBc
 * zmoylan-pi holds out for the day it's the bay city rollers stuck in davmor2's head :-)
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: I know several so it might happen
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Friday, and happy International Day of Non-Violence! ð
 * diddledan slaps JamesTait 
 * JamesTait turns the other cheek.
<davmor2> JamesTait: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZ1TQYjCwYc
<JamesTait> Nice one, davmor2.
 * Laney finds 20p
<Laney> it is a good day
<zmoylan-pi> people don't bother to pick up change anymore, i must pick up 50c a week
<diddledan> omg, you're rich!
<zmoylan-pi> nah i dump it in charity buckets
<diddledan> o/
<diddledan> I'm a charity bucket!
 * zmoylan-pi puts mass accelerator on charge and punches in diddledan's location and waits for blinking light to indicate readiness...
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
 * zmoylan-pi taps non blinking light... and suspects i need a new blinking light...
<davmor2> JamesTait: you're welcome :)
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi: you can't beat a good blinking light
<zmoylan-pi> well you can, i suspect that's why it's now non blinking :-)
 * zmoylan-pi sees an idea for an online shop klingonhardware.com for stuff you know was built to take a beating :-D
<knightwise> zmoylan-pi: brilliant !
<zmoylan-pi> of course shipping will be expensive when the blinkylight that can take a beating costs â¬100 when it weighs 2-3kg due to it's reinforced steel housing
<foobarry> windows 10 installer filled my windows partition on my work laptop
<foobarry> stealthily
<diplo> Heard about that, not looked into it.. where is it stored foobarry ?
<foobarry> windows/installer
<diplo> 4.3gb on mine so guess it has on mine too
<diplo> Actually lots of files are quite old
<diddledan> windows 10 installation files are in a folder at c:\$Windows.~BT
<foobarry> oh
<foobarry> so just cruft on mine?
<foobarry> 18gb in installer and 13gb in winsxs
<diddledan> do not delete anything from winsxs
<diddledan> I would leave installer too without research into what it contains
<foobarry> the disk is full
<diddledan> run disk cleanup wizard
<foobarry> saved 1gb
<foobarry> tops
<foobarry> there's CBS.log which is 500mb
<foobarry> windows is such garbage
<diplo> I use Ccleaner to remove Windows not needed files
<foobarry> still don't have working USB or webcam in 2015
<diplo> That sucks :/
<foobarry> i only use it for vsphere client
<diplo> Appears you can delete cbs.log
<foobarry> only by stopping a service that cannot be stopped
<foobarry> actualyl its 1gb in size
<diplo> Could try in Sagemode ? But appears that it's because of a fault WMI call, from what I'm reading
<diplo> Tried compressing the directory ?
<foobarry> there's so much fail i wanna blow it away
<foobarry> but no win10 isos
<foobarry> how could a 60gb partition running only vsphere client get full?
<foobarry> windows 7 requirements are low than that
<diplo> windir stat ?
<foobarry> v3.19 of kernel isn't suspending on close lid :( 3.13 does
<jpds> foobarry: Time to file a regression bug
<diddledan> lol: https://twitter.com/Snowden/status/649653419620352000
<diddledan> the account only started this week and has several hundred thousand followers already with most of those retweeting or direct messaging him. hence 41GigaBytes of emails
<knightwi1e> price of popularity
<diddledan> allo knightwise
<knightwise> yo diddledan
<knightwise> how are you
<diddledan> I'm good
<diddledan> I'm binge-watching agents of shield
 * m0nkey__ tickles diddledan 
<knightwise> diddledan: good thing you dont need a lot of brainpower for that
 * diddledan giggles @ m0nkey__ 
<diplo> knightwise: Makes it enjoyable for me :) I like things that I can watch without too much needed.. like books, just like losing myself :)
<knightwise> True.
<knightwise> I love watching old episodes of hill street blues while working from home
<davmor2> knightwise: that was an awesome show
<knightwise> indeed it is !
<zmoylan-pi> be careful out there
 * diddledan pops into the pharmacy for protection
<knightwise> I love that line .. i was SO sad when he died
<diddledan> I have no idea about hill street blues other than it was cops
<zmoylan-pi> a great 80s cop show
<zmoylan-pi> though of course not  as great as police squad
<zmoylan-pi> in color
<diddledan> lol
<knightwise> those 2 cant be compared
<zmoylan-pi> we could discuss this in the japanese garden :-) https://www.pinterest.com/pin/468092954990711908/
<knightwise> ROFL
<diddledan> that's really racist about americans
<diddledan> I mean what normal american do you know that walks around a garden?!
<zmoylan-pi> now they'd have scooters or segways for them
<diddledan> exactly
<diddledan> or motorised sofas
<zmoylan-pi> until they invent the floaty chairs of wall-e
<diddledan> wall-e is awesome
<diddledan> I love his dance with eve using a fire extinguisher for propellant
<diplo> Looking at doing a thermostat out of a pi / adafruit type thing, anyone in here done anything similar, want to control heating and eventually integrate with MyCroft
<DJones> Heh, brilliant http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tyne-34425092
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> another car maker is implicated in dieselgate: samsung electronics
<foobarry> the shooter in oregon was british?
<foobarry> oh, had a british parent
<zmoylan-pi> watch this for an example of nonchalant whistling... hands up manufacturers, who don't lie on specifications
<foobarry> there's specs figures, and there's defeat devices
<zmoylan-pi> is there an actual law that says they can't do that? :-)
<zmoylan-pi> personally i hope they get nailed to the wall and the company is fined but i also want the people who decided on this doing jail time.  laws affecting corporations are terrible
<zmoylan-pi> this might help add a few
<foobarry> there is a moral law
<zmoylan-pi> which puts how many people in prison or imposes fines that makes corporations behave?
<foobarry> which wrecks a company when they lose 30% of customers
<foobarry> but hopefully there is an actual law :D
<zmoylan-pi> considering some of the things german companies did in wwii i'm astonished they're still around
<foobarry> hugo boss
<foobarry> vw
<foobarry> porsche
<foobarry> benz
<daftykins> hrmm if i bought more than one item on ebay from the same seller, should i try and negotiate the postage instead of just paying right away?
<diddledan> daftykins: only if they're unreasonable prices
<diddledan> it kinda depends how much you're paying for the product I guess
<daftykins> basically just a bunch of books, each is a set of 4... postage is around Â£3.30 - Â£4.50 on each set
<diddledan> might be worth negotiating then
<daftykins> i've won each with between Â£5 and Â£8 on them all
<diddledan> that's almost doubling the cost of the purchase ekse
<daftykins> mind you with the postage it barely makes it a feasible profit for that person, i might just leave it :>
<diddledan> else*
<daftykins> tum te tum
<davmor2> Moo! :)
<davmor2> how is everyone?
<daftykins> all good here ty, how be thee?
<davmor2> I be good thanks
<daftykins> ah-har i just discovered the 'request total' function of ebay, that'll be handy :D
<daftykins> new debit card just showed up from natwest and doesn't have contactless tech, excellent
<diddledan> \o/
<daftykins> was kinda expecting it would be one
 * diddledan doesn't touch daftykins contactless tech
<daftykins> diddledan: y'can't touch this ~
<daftykins> my my, clock change time on the 25th
<diddledan> yey?
<daftykins> it's amusing because the US changes on the 1st November, so the atlantic will shrink for a few days :)
<daftykins> east coast becomes only 4hrs behind instead of 5
<diddledan> does that mean travel time reduces?
<daftykins> :)
<DJones> Why do i keep getting sent links to people replacing kitty litter with popping candy.....Once you've seen one cat having a bit of an experience in the litter tray, you've seen enough
<daftykins> X|
<daftykins> the cleanup must be annoying
<DJones> You'd think so
<DJones> A friend on facebook linked this video which is quite cute, specially for cat lovers https://www.facebook.com/AmazingThingsInTheWorld/videos/933718966681818/
<daftykins> impressive bit of multi touch paw action there :)
<DJones> Wonder if there are any cat proof tablets
<ali1234> dude
<ali1234> you can't just casually mention the most awesome sounding video ever and then not link it
<DJones> ali1234: I think was a decent one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZvIGjarXreY
<daftykins> the drunks are out already
<daftykins> impressive
<diddledan> awesome
<diddledan> they're fun
<daftykins> ;]
<daftykins> got the Mr. Robot finale on
<ball> Can Ubuntu Mobile run on a Nexus 7?
<daftykins> #ubuntu-touch might be useful
<popey> nexus 7 2013, yes
<popey> not the 2012 version
<ali1234> can i run it on a rasberry pi 2 with the official touchscreen?
<ali1234> and what about an x86 touchscreen laptop?
<diddledan> can I run it on a nokia 6770?
<ali1234> diddledan: why do ORMs all expect me to define the database schema in code?
<ali1234> why can't they just get it from the database?
<diddledan> they'd still need the schema for the schema definition in code
<ali1234> i disagree
<diddledan> i.e. you can't just invent stuff and magically expect it to work
<diddledan> at some point you need something in code
<diddledan> the point of ORMs usually is to allow for versioned schemas
<diddledan> i.e. you have saved definition of each change
<ali1234> what do you call something that lets you access a SQL table as if it was an array of hash maps?
<diddledan> in php that would be mysql_fetch_array
<ali1234> that's one way
<diddledan> it would be really difficult to write a truly dynamic interface that works with zero-knowledge
<ali1234> i should be able to write the following code : for row in database['table']: row['field'] = "somevalue"
<ali1234> and i should be able to do it without having to know anything about the schema in advance, other than "field" exists
<ali1234> what's more, this can be implemented in about 10 lines of python
<popey> ali1234: i dont think there's a mir based image for the pi
<ball> Is Mir that non-X GUI thing?
<popey> yes
<ball> I'm not sure how I feel about that. Is it motivated by tablets and phones?
<daftykins> probably by change :)
<ball> I'm not sure what that means.
<ali1234> MIR and Wayland are both motivated by the switch to using compositing for all graphics
<ali1234> Mir
<ali1234> there isn't really any good reason for using compositing other than tablets and phones aren't powerfully enough to do graphics without it
<ball> Can X not composite?
<ali1234> it can but it is extremely inefficient
<ball> Interesting.
<ali1234> the problem isn't really that X can't composite. the problem is that it supports hardware that can't composite
<ali1234> Wayland... doesn't
<ali1234> Wayland is basically X, if you removed all the core functionality and all the extensions except for DRI2
<ali1234> which coincidentally was written by the same person
 * ball thinks about that for a bit.
<daftykins> blargh this failed subwoofer ruins music :(
 * diddledan woofs
 * zmoylan-pi hums like a cheap amp...
<daftykins> :) nah not the amp to blame
#ubuntu-uk 2015-10-03
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<DJones> Does anybody know if Chromecast are able to directly access dlna servers running on Ubuntu, googling seems to give conflicting reports.  Generally not by default, but there are some apps that do allow it, but they may have subsequently broken and not work anymore.
<directhex> i use an app called Avia to stream from DLNA to chromecast
<DJones> Is that direct without using an android phone? I'll have a look at that, I think it was one of the ones I'd picked up as a possibility
<directhex> no, it's using an android phone
<directhex> or tablet
<DJones> ok, I was looking for one that would do it directly
<popey> how would you tell the chromecast what to play?
<DJones> I was looking at localcast https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=de.stefanpledl.localcast&hl=en
<popey> Surely you need an app _somewhere_?
<DJones> Just use the android device as a remote with the app installed on the chromecast, rather than the android device accessing the dlna server and then casting to the chromecast
<Moodoo> morning all
<Moodoo> well seems like a do-release-upgrade -d to wily is as painless as ever!
<Moodoo> A::)
<foobarry> settled down to use amazon prime last night to watch a film. realised i cant send it to chromecast...
<foobarry> i just assumed it would have worked :(
<foobarry> had to connect as a 2nd monitor, and pull out the speakers :(
<zest_> hey there guys
<zest_> upgraded my mac os
<zest_> and now having problems with booting ubuntu from partition
<zest_> ?
<zest_> ?
<zest_> yellow
<Azelphur> Well this is a little worrying, I set up my companies website on AWS (Using micro instances and micro RDS) which is supposed to be free for 12 months, they just sent us a $275 bill
<Moodoo> evening all
<penguin42> evenin
<daftykins> \o
 * penguin42 saw The Martian before - good film
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<daftykins> ooh neat
<daftykins> that's on my to-do list, but i don't really like 3D so i'm not sure i want to see it locally
<daftykins> one cinema, one viewing type Â¬_Â¬
 * penguin42 saw it in 2d
<penguin42> daftykins: One screen in one cinema?
<daftykins> nah they've got maybe 4-6, i forget
<daftykins> just no 2D viewings
 * penguin42 was surprised there wasn't an Imax - or perhaps they're planning to release that later and hope people go to that as well
<penguin42> but since I got 3rd row in a mostly empty cinema it didn't matter
<daftykins> :)
<daftykins> that's the other thing, i saw that Jurassic World mid-week and got a screening with maybe 8 people tops
<daftykins> that was great
<penguin42> this was this lunchtime, maybe more people are seeing it in the evening, maybe most are doing 3d, maybe the non-geeks aren't attracted as much? anyway there are lots of showings in Manc
<daftykins> hmm actually as i'm over in England next week i should try for a viewing then
#ubuntu-uk 2015-10-04
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<marshmn> hi all; any idea how I can install Windows inside a VirtualBox VM (on Ubuntu host), when the Windows installation media is a USB stick that I created when I first got this laptop (using some app inside windows to create a system restore disk)?
<marshmn> VirtualBox doesn't seem to see my USB stick at all to map it through to OS
<marshmn> or machine rather
<marshmn> nor does converting it to a disk image with DD seem to work - VirtualBox doesn't like that
<marshmn> I then tried converting the image to an ISO - but that fails because the image file is bigger than 4GB
<daftykins> which windows?
<marshmn> Windows 8.1
<daftykins> do you have a legal key?
<marshmn> yes
<daftykins> download it from microsoft with their utility, it can create an ISO fresh
<daftykins> then you can use that
<marshmn> I got that from the machine before I trashed Windows and put Ubuntu on
<marshmn> oh, I can download it?
<marshmn> hmm
<daftykins> mmhmm
<marshmn> I know you can download Windows 10 - didn't realise you can get 8.1
<daftykins> and 7 allegedly
<marshmn> I need to run a Windows executable to do this?
<marshmn> there lies a slight issue :)
<daftykins> yip
<daftykins> mmm guess it's a bit chicken and egg, you don't have any windows media at all?
<marshmn> I have no Windows running personally, but I'm sure I can find a Windows machine I can use in the office
<marshmn> thanks for your help
<daftykins> np
<mjayk> are there any ubuntu / linux groups in manchester
<penguin42> mjayk: Yes
<penguin42> mjayk: There is manlug
<penguin42> mjayk: http://manlug.org/   next meeting in a couple of weeks
 * penguin42 must write his talk for it
<penguin42> mjayk: There is also an Openstack group http://www.meetup.com/Manchester-OpenStack-Meetup/events/223737111/ if you're into more system stuff
<penguin42> mjayk: Oh and http://madlab.org.uk/groups/manchester-free-software/
<mjayk> penguin42: thanks alot sorry I was afk
<mjayk> penguin42: i take it you attend?
<penguin42> mjayk: Yes, most months
<mjayk> cool cool ill keep an eye out for when the next one is
<penguin42> mjayk: 17th I think, there's also a mailing list you can join that's mostly about the meetings
<mjayk> just going over the site now :)
<mjayk> currybeer :o
<penguin42> oh yeh, that group I think do Friday evenings once a month, mostly involving the curry mile
<zmoylan-pi> currybeer? a real timesaver :-)
<mjayk> t
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi: that's a good laxative
<DJOnes> Is it just me, or has BBC Sports twitter account gone pretty much silent on the RU World Cup, from messages every few minutes, to 1-2 an hour
<DJOnes> And on that note, BBC Sports links to "Where did it all go wrong" :)
<DJOnes> Pretty easy to answer, they let the oposition score more points than them in 2 out of 3 games
<diddledan> I'm really annoyed that people are saying the manager should be sacked
<diddledan> I hate this pattern of employing a guy for a month before a major international and then sacking him when we don't win
<diddledan> football is worse at that tho
<diddledan> seems the contracts must be stating as a condition of employment that the team cannot lose any matches ever
<DJOnes> diddledan: Yeah, agree with that, Rugby Union isn't my sport (Rugby League is), but sacking a manager for short term poor results is wrong.  The manager needs time to build, it doesn't happen overnight, it takes years to develop a decent manager.  Look at Alex Ferguson at Man United, with the results he had at the start of his career, he'd have been sacked quickly nowadays, instead he was given time and became one of the worlds greatest ever ...
<DJOnes> ... managers
<diddledan> exactly
<DJOnes> My Rugby League team have done the same, we've had a manager in place for 3-4 years, never been great, but has been building over time, to the point he;s been mentioned as a future England manager
<diddledan> and it takes time for a team to become cohesive too - football is terrible at "buy the most expensive player. blame manger when that player has a huge ego and doesn't play well in the team causing the team to lose"
<DJOnes> Definately, in Rugby League we've had a guy come into club ownership (with experience as a horse racing owner) that seems to think if you but 17 red rums, shergars etc, they'd all be able to play together, when their best points are their indivudality
<diddledan> I feel that the best players are those that work well with a team rather than being very good at kicking against a goalpost
<DJOnes> In any sport, you could buy the worlds best players, but their own indivduality would stop them being a good team, and as they say "there's no I in TEAM"
<diddledan> being a good kicker is great if your team can get the opportunity but if the team doesn't work together to generate opportunity then you can have the best kicker in the world but lose every game
<DJOnes> Yep
<diddledan> the rugby manager definitely shouldn't be sacked imo
<DJOnes> I'd agree
<diddledan> and bringing it up the instant we fall out of the championship is just unfair
<DJOnes> At the end of the day, a manager/coach gives suggestions on how to play, if the oposition do something different to expected the plans are useless and its up to the players on the pitch to deal with it and play to the best of their ability
<diddledan> you really need a decent amount of time to analyse and digest whether anything went wrong or we were just bested by a better team. only then if there is blame that can be attributed shoudl you consider such actions
<DJOnes> And saying that, no player ever goes out to not play at their best, they play for pride
<diddledan> unless they're being bribed :-p
<DJOnes> Very true, no matter how good you are, somebody else can be better (despite what you're told)
<DJOnes> Heh, yeah, but thats normally football or snooker
<diddledan> lol
<DJOnes> Feels wierd, defending an England RU coach, when I don't have much interest in Rugby Union, and I support Wales as well :)
<DJOnes> Must be looking forward to the 6 Nations
<DJOnes> Guaranteed 3 points :)
<diddledan> I support both england and wales equally - makes it interesting to watch a match between them :-)
<DJOnes> I bet, born in England, Welsh ancestry (a few generations back), went to Uni in Wales, but more Welsh than England
<DJOnes> Based on ancestry, I should support England, Wales, Chili, Scotland and Ireland
<diddledan> I think my welshness stems from sometime in the 19th century - my dad's family moved from the valleys to the east-end of london somewhen around there iirc
<twager> Am looking to buy a new desktop...any recommends wellcome.
<penguin42> twager: What are your criteria?
<penguin42> cheap, fast, small, beige?
<twager> As long as it is ok with Linux I am happy
<penguin42> twager: Right, but do you want to buy a cheap system or do you want to spend more and buy a faster system?
<twager> Up tp Â£500
<penguin42> ok, and do you game a lot - i.e. do you want to spend more on graphics?
<twager> No games..Was looking at Novatech ?
 * penguin42 has heard of them but has never bought from them
<penguin42> twager: So I'd suggest about 8GB of RAM maybe Intel i5 CPU, and 128GB SSD disk from a good brand
<twager> I used to build my own but old age has taken its toll
<penguin42> haha tell me about it :-)
<penguin42> twager: The problem is some cheap prebuilts have awful PSUs
<twager> Might just renew the mobo on the broken box
<penguin42> twager: Some places will build from your choice of parts I think
<twager> Local dealer will do that ..Think I will pay him a visit see what he can do.
<brobostigon> one of the most unhelpful responses to a bug report on the planet, https://github.com/magefree/mage/issues/1300
<diddledan> eh? that's terrible
<diddledan> I guess the developer has never heard of responsive layouts
<brobostigon> exactly.
<diddledan> a much more appropriate answer could have been "not at the moment, but I'll look into smaller screens sometime in the future - pull requests welcome"
<brobostigon> exactly v.2
<diddledan> he hasn't even considered the potential of adaptation - just closed the issue . really sucky
<brobostigon> absolutly.
<brobostigon> i really should make an example of the plonker.
<diddledan> this is evil usage of javascript: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zpD2R2iXiiU
<daftykins> 36 mins :(
#ubuntu-uk 2016-10-03
<daftykins> https://1drv.ms/v/s!AsNlU9fvqb7thAEs57Il2OkQJD4x
<daftykins> zoom zoom
<knightwise> morning everyone
<diplo> Morning all
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<popey> Morning
<SuperMatt> g'day
<brobostigon> morning
<davmor2> Morning all
<Gargoyle> Mornin'
<Gargoyle> Happy monday!
<davmor2> Gargoyle: mehday
<JamesTait> Good morning all!  Happy Monday, and happy Techies Day! ð
<foobarry> yay
<foobarry> which micro sd should i buy?
<foobarry> kingston?
<popey> sandisk or samsung
<foobarry> ooh pricey. a whole 30p more
<davmor2> foobarry: sandisk 1 tb ;)
<popey> Have you watched the bunnie talk from ccc? It's super interesting, and gets quite deep about hacking the tiny cpu inside sd cards
<popey> worth a watch
<zmoylan-pi> 1tb on a card small enough to hide behind a mote of dust if dropped...
<popey> :)
<zmoylan-pi> i remember when the format was first released there was talk of music albums been released on cards.  you'd have needed a magnifying glass and tweezers just to sort your music...
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: more like a microscope than a magnifying glass
<zmoylan-pi> well a jewellers eye loupe...
<zmoylan-pi> you can get them in maplins... :-)
<foobarry> refurbished micrso SD cards eeeek
<zmoylan-pi> one careless previous owner who is still looking for it...
<popey> yeah, apparently *very* common to sell 8GB cards as 1GB (or similar) due to whatever sectors actually work
<popey> Bunnie said they saw a 16GB internal card sold as 128MB or thereabouts because that's the only sectors that worked
<zmoylan-pi> bodes well
<ali1234> selling cards like that is extremely common
<ali1234> it's also common to sell them as 16GB even though only 128MB of it works
<zmoylan-pi> when i first started disk drives were shipped with a dodgy sectors list which you had to type into novell when setting them up... you really looked for drives with small lists and paid extra for them
<ali1234> also kingston sucks
<ali1234> popey: can you recommend a keyboard and touchpad case cover thing for nexus 7 that works with ubuntu?
<popey> Logitech K480 is the one I have
<popey> but I'm told they basically all work
<popey> I don't have a cover style keyboard, only the big jobbies
<ali1234> hmm and no touchpad
<ali1234> i suppose it does have a touchscreen
<ali1234> and i'd need a proper mouse for anything fiddly anyway
<ali1234> popey: if you see anyone with a nice one ask them where they got it please :)
<popey> yeah, i use a thinkpad bluetooth mouse
<popey> I am in the office tomorrow, will ask around and see, as I know some people have different ones there
<ali1234> thanks
<popey> np
<popey> ali1234: just asked them https://www.1byone.com/Accessories/Wireless-Bluetooth-Keyboard/O0000-0713 they have one of them
<ali1234> this looks interesting: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Navitech-Wireless-Bluetooth-Keyboard-Google/dp/B00HYXMUMM/ref=pd_sim_sbs_147_5?ie=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=71X10PTQGNAC9Z0A0GZ8
<zmoylan-pi> you'd have thought by now there'd be a call for a standard connector on tablets and phones so that they could be connected to keyboards/ dashboards without all the silly suction cups/clips to support them
<davmor2> JamesTait: I got this stuck in my head so now you can have it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1-YPLp3KqA happy techie day  :D
<Azelphur> decided to buy that GPD Win, just placed my preorder, gonna be interesting to play with Linux, Steam, etc at 5 inches
<davmor2> JamesTait: I figure that covers a techie right a gadget inspector ;)
<JamesTait> Close enough, davmor2. ð
<davmor2> JamesTait: :D
<diddledan_> davmor2: lol, clever pick of song
<diddledan_> wow, I'd forgotten how much of an earworm that tune is/was
<davmor2> diddledan_: ran out of idea for geek or techie was gonna go with https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FCARADb9asE and claim JamesTait had mis-spelt Trekie
<diddledan_> lol
<diddledan_> we come in peace, shoot to kill
<davmor2> diddledan_: it's life jim but not as we know it
 * lopta sighs
<davmor2> lopta: why
<lopta> davmor2: I plugged a Cardbus card into a laptop running an operating system other than Ubuntu and it reset.
<lopta> I'll use USB instead.
<diddledan_> I might almost feel sorry for this tech support scammer https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Du6acZ-PZQ8
<davmor2> diddledan_: that is comedy gold
<diddledan> ooh, westworld starts tomorrow
<diddledan> davmor2: aye, I stopped feeling sorry for him when he started swearing his bum off
<diddledan> ooh, and a new crime drama in november: conviction with the lass who played agent carter
#ubuntu-uk 2016-10-04
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/niaspkr87zalf0d/IMG_20161004_032645.jpg?dl=0
<mapps> hello;]
<mapps> back fron the usa?
<daftykins> yep got in on Friday
<daftykins> cat is happy to have her on site staff back
<mapps> ;]
<daftykins> i'm watching a video on how nixie tubes are made
<knightwise> howdy peepz
<daftykins> good morning sir, how do?
<knightwise> Doin ok :) Decided on moving all my "non work" stuff on my work computer over to a vm
<daftykins> D:
<knightwise> now tunneling everything via sshuttle through my vm in amsterdam
<daftykins> what's that include? my mind hops to gaming immediately which i'd consider ruined by virt
<knightwise> Sshuttle is a vpn through SSH.
<knightwise> basically the traffic out of this vm is opaque to the vpn of wherever i work
<daftykins> nah the non-work stuff i really meant :D
<knightwise> daftykins: well, some of the work I do for my own company (i'm a freelancer) and some of the leisure stuff I do for Knightwise.com
<knightwise> mostly chatting, surfing, irc and stuff
<knightwise> just don't want nosy sys admins to snoop around on my traffic
<daftykins> ah right
<daftykins> say n'more! :D
<daftykins> i haven't ventured to anyones yet to resume work! maybe today...
<knightwise> daftykins: you still out jobhunting ?
<daftykins> i have a handful of small biz clients already so that wasn't me :)
<daftykins> rarely a dull moment with this crowd, but i could definitely do with gaining more clients
<sebsebseb> hi
<daftykins> lo
<sebsebseb> daftykins: l
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/0eohgbsd9ga23ao/Screenshot_20161004-071737.png?dl=0 looks like my mates wife needs to dust for cobwebs :>
<diplo> Morning all
<davmor2> Morning all you funky people
<daftykins> \o
<selinuxium> Hi everyone *waves*
<daftykins> 7.5 hours until new google phones!
<awilkins> Gurglephones!
<daftykins> yep!
<awilkins> These will be the new, locked-down, consumer/developer phones right?
<selinuxium> I was going to get a small pocket incendary... Then diceded I might now wait for a Pixel phone...
<daftykins> i haven't really heard much on the presumed level of locks applied :>
<foobarry> they looks like iphone/samsungs
<daftykins> everything looks like everything now yeah, it's quite odd
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<selinuxium> What time is the event?
<daftykins> 5pm
<daftykins> however you're connected to this internet thing, you could've... googled it ;D
<brobostigon> streamed on google's youtube page?
<daftykins> who knows!
<brobostigon> lolz.
<ali1234> https://events.google.com/io2016/
<ali1234> oh wait that's like the last one
<brobostigon> io was months ago, anyway.
<ali1234> apparently it will be at https://www.youtube.com/google
<popey> Finding it difficult to drum up enthusiasm for yet more phones and maybe an alexa-a-like
<daftykins> i think it depends what you're looking for, i've got a Nexus 5 that's received the chop and has been bad at handling calls (probably it got more damaged than just the screen smash when my friend owned it) so i'm in the market - i just want something that gets security updates
<daftykins> if you're waiting for the next Jesus phone, then... well... yeah :)
<popey> I switched to CM13 on my OPX
<popey> only because OnePlus dragged their heels on Marshmallow
<daftykins> mmm i think my issues are hardware, but i don't think i'd run an alternate ROM anyway
<davmor2> popey: what they aren't no nougat
<brobostigon> i also have cm13 on my nexus4, last version for it from google was 5.-something-or-other.
<daftykins> N5 just can't hold onto the network in this granite house :)
<daftykins> ah yeah i used my ol' N4 with a t-mobile visitor SIM whilst in the US, bit chuggy now
<knightwise> morning everyone :)
<brobostigon> morning knightwise
<knightwise> hey brobostigon daftykins davmor2 popey
<brobostigon> :)
<knightwise> popey: nice mention about the nextcloud box.
<knightwise> Do you think the nextcloud project will be stable enough to go for (or is owncloud gonna win ?)
 * brobostigon uses owncloud, and is happy with its stability.
<brobostigon> i see no point in changing.
<davmor2> knightwise: who won openoffice or libreoffice? it's down to who gets the momentum and developers
<diddledan> daftykins: the photo of your cat from 5am this morning looks like she's happy you're home :-) I love kitty cuddles!
<diddledan> re: owncloud vs nextcloud, I've moved over to nextcloud in the hopes they'll make it work. I feel like the split is akin to openoffice vs libreoffice where the fork is the one people should be using due to politics :-)
<popey> nextcloud _does_ work :)
 * popey looks at his nextcloud server
<popey> also, where's my nextcloud box
<davmor2> popey: there it is
 * popey phones WD to find out
<popey> woot, should ship end of this week
<diddledan> \o/
<diplo> A blog afterwards from yourself popey ? I'm interested
<popey> yeah, will do.
<davmor2> popey: blog it like it is a personal letter to diplo it'll be a nice twist on a blog post :)
<diddledan> https://9to5mac.com/2016/10/04/touch-id-in-display-iphone-8/ <-- interesting patent application
<zmoylan-pi> will make it easier for kids to unlock their parents phone when they don't have to get finger onto the fingerprint reader while they sleep...
<diddledan> three and a half hours till google does its thing
<diddledan> https://youtu.be/q4y0KOeXViI
<diddledan> so 5pm today by my maths
<zmoylan-pi> it's a phone... people are super excited about it?
<diddledan> how do you know it's a phone?
<diddledan> it's an announcement event so by definition what they're talking about hasn't been announced
<zmoylan-pi> people wondering in various irc channels about it sounding odd to depreceate your runaway success mobile platform
<foobarry> have you guys seen these? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OM6z9czN318&list=PL1AXWu-gGX6LNsfQ-KkeGPxL76CFONTom&index=58
<foobarry> see you in a few hours...
<diddledan> foobarry: wow, that's awesome
<foobarry> also... https://github.audio
<diddledan> oh nice. that's some ethereal musicy GitHub goodness right there
<foobarry> also a wikipedia one
<diddledan> as google go to the podium, I'm wondering if it'll be "the best phone we've ever made" https://www.cnet.com/uk/videos/the-iphone-the-adjective-iphone-weve-ever-verbed/
<ali1234> "the smelliest phone we've ever smelled"
<lopta> "The heaviest phone we've ever schlepped"
<diddledan> ali1234: with "new iPhone" smell or otherwise? (you can get a new apple product smell scented candle now, I read today)
<ali1234> wow i know what my brother is getting for xmas
<popey> make it smell of blown-out candles & matches, recently cut grass, sharpies or glue and I'm in :)
 * lopta vaguely remembers rubbers that smelled like coca cola.
<lopta> ...and erasable ink pens.
<lopta> ...and the BBC Micro.
<ali1234> "cut grass" candles are very common
<ali1234> they sell them in john lewis
<lopta> If I want to smell cut grass I can go out and cut the grass. ;-)
<popey> It is not one of the 7 days in the year when the weather is nice enough to cut the grass
<lopta> popey: I get more of those, though when it rains for a while it's almost knee high before I can cut it.
<popey> heh
<Laney> meh
<Laney> just got a letter from virgin increasing the price by Â£2.99/month
<Laney> 9%
<popey> blimey, again!?
 * Laney checks to see when the last time it changed was
<Laney> december
<Laney> it went up by Â£2 then
<popey> mine overs between 68 and 73 quid a month for phone/t'internet/telly
<Laney> chancers
 * Laney checks how much infinity is these days
<davmor2> popey: man that's cheap how did you wrangle that
<popey> was Â£42.83  in 2011!
<popey> oh, that was cheapo first month
<davmor2> popey: I mean the 68-73
<diddledan> I'm with A&A now
<Laney> caps would make me nervous
 * Laney has ubuntu & debian mirror
<diddledan> :-)
<diddledan> I'm on their Terry Bite
<diddledan> Terror Bite?
<diddledan> Terrier Bite?
<popey> davmor2: mates rates
<popey> I can't change anything, or switch from old samsung V+ box or they will move me to normal tarriff
<davmor2> popey: ours is Â£105-ish
 * lopta fires up xe.com
<Laney> guess I should call Virgin and kindly ask them to let me pay less money
<lopta> I pay about 37 quid per month for about 3M down, 1.5M up.
<Laney> infinity's still more even after the increase
<Laney> ;_;
<lopta> I have to type quid because my keyboard doesn't have a pound sign.
<diddledan> Â£Â£Â£
<diddledan> pick one and copy+paste :-p
<lopta> diddledan: ...and on my screen that shows up as "lblblb"
<diddledan> haha
<diddledan> character encoding differences ftw
<lopta> If I ran one of the newfangled desktops I could use unicode.
<lopta> ...or perhaps just one of the newfangled terminal programs.
<lopta> I should buy a roll-up UK keyboard.
<lopta> Anyway, I should go and find some lunch.
<lopta> I hope I'll be back shortly.
<popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/23275747/ that's how my bill has wavered around
<popey> davmor2: blimey
<popey> davmor2: you on XL?
<davmor2> popey: 150Mbs, Tivo, HD upstairs, unlimited phone + sky movies
<diddledan> "best smartphone camera anyone has ever made" <-- BINGO!
<popey> http://imgur.com/a/HkJPF a graph!
<popey> Right, I have no Sky Movies, 'only' 100Mb and no Tivo
<ali1234> so is this all they've got?
<ali1234> a new phone?
<popey> lulz
<ali1234> did they seriously just tout the fact that it has customer support as a major new feature?
<popey> well, their customer support is notoriously bad
<diddledan> I haven't seen a headphone socket yet
<popey> it's square
<diddledan> yey for throwing it on the floor :-p
<diddledan> they're getting through a lot of presenters
<diddledan> netflix in VR might be interesting
<diddledan> wat. sheep simulator?
<diddledan> interesting competition against mycroft - the google assistant is going to be embeddable in your own products
<diddledan> the pixel is Â£599 for the base model going up to Â£719 for the top-end
<diddledan> ref: https://store.google.com/config/pixel_phone
<lopta> Will those run Ubuntu Phone?
<m0nkey_> diddledan, it's $900 here
<m0nkey_> so, no.
<Azelphur> haha dam, Google are really going full iPhone
<diddledan> I wonder why there weren't any new tabletty things
<diddledan> the pixel tablet is getting long-in-the-tooth surely?
<Azelphur> And not only that, but they are seriously crazy on the pricing now
<Azelphur> http://www.gsmarena.com/compare.php3?idPhone1=7995&idPhone2=8346 why would you buy a Pixel when the OnePlus 3 is half the price and >= specs
<zmoylan-pi> build quality?
<awilkins> What about the Wileyfox?
<awilkins> vs the OnePlus / Pixel?
<diddledan> I'd not buy the one plus because it doesn't have the google apps
<diddledan> might as well get an amazon firefone if you're considering that
<lopta> m0nkey_: Where do you live, our of interest?
<diddledan> in my basement :-p
<m0nkey_> lool
<m0nkey_> Yes, there.
<m0nkey_> Canada, if you must know.
<diddledan> oh he must!
 * diddledan throws m0nkey_ nuts
<lopta> m0nkey_: I have family in BC and friends in ON, AB, NL etc.
<lopta> Never been there myself, mind.
<m0nkey_> I'm in QC
<diddledan> I had family in BC, but then Jebus arrived and moved them all to AD
<m0nkey_> diddledan, sure they wern't turned to ON?
<diddledan> m0nkey_: as long as they don't end up needing a QC I don't care
<lopta> diddledan: You had me scratching my head for a minute then trying to place the province.
<m0nkey_> AD isn't a Provence, it's a Territory :D lol
<diddledan> lopta: Anno Domini
 * lopta nods
<lopta> diddledan: I did get there in the end.
<diddledan> odd that we have Anno Domini in latin and Before Christ in English
<zmoylan-pi> what would before christ be in latin?
<diddledan> err
<zmoylan-pi> thus starts the latin lesson... :-P
<diddledan> ante christo
<diddledan> maybe ante domini
<zmoylan-pi> so... anti christ...
<diddledan> :-p
<zmoylan-pi> yeah... i can see now why they went with before christ...
<diddledan> nowt wrong with a bit of devilishness now and then
<lopta> BCE and CE, in modern academic parlance.
<diddledan> aye
<zmoylan-pi> stardate in geekish circles :-P
<diddledan> seems silly to refer to the same eras as the AD/BC with different names tho
<diddledan> might as well just use "seconds since the big bang"
<zmoylan-pi> but that assumes time is a constant which might not have been true at the start
<lopta> diddledan: When unix moves to 128-bit, we could push back the epoch I suppose.
<diddledan> of course time is constant! excepting when it isn't, obviously
<diddledan> we're on 64bit time_t now I think?
<zmoylan-pi> anyone who assumes time is a constant needs more meetings on their agendas... :-P
<lopta> diddledan: I don't know what Linux uses.
 * lopta sighs
<lopta> I suppose I should go and visit this customer.
<zmoylan-pi> linux uses amount of times linus has sworn since the kernel was created so it's 128bit already...
<zmoylan-pi> the star berate system...
<lopta> $ date -r 1
<lopta> Thu Jan  1 00:00:01 UTC 1970
<lopta> I should start writing my birthday on official forms in seconds since the Epoch.
<zmoylan-pi> in binary
<lopta> zmoylan-pi: That's silly. I'd use Octal, of course.
<zmoylan-pi> of course in hex at some point you would be deadbeef
<diddledan> 0xdeadbeefcafebabe
 * lopta wanders off to the computer recycling place.
<awilkins> 0xdeadbabebeefcafe
<awilkins> Run by h@nn1balL3kt3r-leet-dude-93
<diddledan> hmm, dead babe beef sounds like it's a bit cannibalistic
<m0nkey_> Any FPS gamers lurking in there?
<m0nkey_> *here?
<Azelphur> m0nkey_: yup
<Azelphur> what's up?
<m0nkey_> What's a good but inexpensive gaming mouse?
<Azelphur> haha you would say that, I'm a weirdo and use a trackball
<m0nkey_> My Corsair somethingoranother isn't registering clicks half the time
<Azelphur> but uhh, gaming hardware Roccat give their hardware free to a Linux dev
<Azelphur> so the support for the gaming features is supposed to be good
<Azelphur> I have a bunch of Logitech G-Series, which is a PITA in Linux
<m0nkey_> These Roccat things look serious
<m0nkey_> I only need one macro button :D
<Azelphur> what's wrong with having more? ;)
<m0nkey_> Wow, roccat aren't that expensive, that's good.
<m0nkey_> Some are even on sale :)
<Azelphur> indeed, they aren't bad
<Azelphur> m0nkey_: but yea, they give all the hardware (even before release) to a Linux dev, and link to his drivers on their website
<Azelphur> which is about as good as it gets for gaming hardware arrangements
<Azelphur> in an ideal world they'd...hire the poor fellow, but there we go
<zmoylan-pi> but that would cost money!!
#ubuntu-uk 2016-10-05
<knightwise> mornin
<daftykins> good morn \o
<SuperMatt> 'ning
<Gargoyle> o/
<foobarry> changed firefox to multi process. it doth sucketh still
<daftykins> maybe a good clean profile is needed
<foobarry> one of the tabs causing 100% cpu
<daftykins> however it runs so nice on Windows, seems they just dropped the ball on Linux and mac
<foobarry> but it still kills whole browser
<daftykins> err well that sounds like plugins
<foobarry> don't have many
<foobarry> ah its also using 5G resident
<foobarry> it was that "listen to wikipedia" site
<foobarry> left it runnign overnight.
<foobarry> hmm or was it
<foobarry> gaah it was logstash
<daftykins> what's that?
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<daftykins> \o
<brobostigon> morning daftykins
<daftykins> :)
<daftykins> must head out, first time working since i got back :D
<daftykins> ooh the pain of it all!
<brobostigon> :)
<knightwise> hmm
<foobarry> logstash is awesome. think searchable unified syslogging across all machines
<knightwise> popey lied to me :)
<knightwise> Snappy install of nextcloud on rasp pi didnt work so smoothly
<popey> hm?
<popey> I didn't lie. It worked smoothly for me.
<davmor2> knightwise: why?
<knightwise> popey: got some dependancy errors (strange)
<knightwise> Should have made some screenshos
<popey> uh
<davmor2> knightwise: how did you install it
<popey> I installed the snap
<popey> snap install nextcloud
<popey> End of instructions
<davmor2> knightwise: the dependencies in the snap are bundled in there are no dependency issues.  Install Snappy Core 16 and then sudo snap install nextcloud
<knightwise> davmor2: i did do a snap install , but it failed to start the nextcloud services , i'll try again tonight an see what I get
<popey> knightwise: it takes a little while on first start, some minutes
<popey> I just tested here
<popey> (on another pi)
<knightwise> did you get an error ?
<popey> at what point?
<popey> well, no, i see no errors
<JamesTait> Good morning all!  Happy Wednesday, and happy World Teachers' Day! ð
<zmoylan-pi> who put world teachers day in october?! when they can least appreciate it?! :-)
<davmor2> JamesTait: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Ia-ch8g8c0
<davmor2> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ib-Qiyklq-Q
<diddledan> argh. I'm getting angry reading this ubuntu-devel-discuss thread
<diddledan> "It's not what I want. make it how I want it. I won't tell you what I want, just what I don't."
<diddledan> there's lots of bashing of current state but no actual constructive arguments for what to do about it
<ali1234> i have a constructive argument for what to do about it
<diddledan> seems to be a common theme from this xen guy
<ali1234> fire the entire phone team and consolidate on desktop and server
<ali1234> OR
<ali1234> fire the desktop and server teams and concentrate on phone (but that would be suicide)
<ali1234> perhaps an even easier solution would be to just make the phone team only use phones to do all their work
<ali1234> no desktops, no servers. just convergence
<Gargoyle> diddledan, is that where general discussions take place for any ubuntu dev? I might want to have a read as I am seriously surprised at some stuff.
<diddledan> Gargoyle: not sure about everything, but some stuff gets discussed there
<BigRedS1> ali1234: but then how do you flip-flop between priorities every couple of release?
<ali1234> well you can still flip flop between desktop and server
<ali1234> actually that could work pretty well
<ali1234> LTS switches between desktop and server focus
<ali1234> and they have five year support
<BigRedS1> is that what they do, or something you suggest? We stopped using Ubuntu servers a few years ago (12.04?) when it looked like Canonical was all about phones and tablets
<ali1234> something i suggest
<ali1234> canonical is now all about phones and tablets and server and also the cloud
<ali1234> also they still make a desktop operating system
<ali1234> also IoT
<ali1234> oh and also several different app ecosystems (click, snap, charm...)
<diddledan> thing is I can understand the desire to be in these other markets. it allows canonical to get some positive cashflow.
<ali1234> not if they never finish anything it doesn't
<ali1234> i just tried on install ubuntu on nexus 7 which is a reference device and it doesn't even work
<ali1234> the installer just exits and the device screen says "this device needs restoring from a PC or service center" on a purple ubuntu background
<BigRedS1> yeah, if you're interested in any of those things, it looks like a thing Canonical's sort-of doing but not focussing on
<daftykins> diddledan: heh what you just described is every day in #kodi
<daftykins> "this software doesn't read my mind about how i want my media collection, a curse on ye all!" </standard user>
<arsen> daftykins  you tried kodi on an amazon stick?
<daftykins> yeah, don't bother - full wired LAN model or not at all :)
<daftykins> actually about to fire up a Rick and Morty episode on mine right this moment \o/ i have the first gen FireTV model
<daftykins> sad thing is Kodi lost its' android dev, so the platform is in jeopardy too
<davmor2> ali1234: Nexus 7 isn't a reference device anymore so hasn't had testing for a while
<ali1234> davmor2: the wiki says it is
<ali1234> https://developer.ubuntu.com/en/phone/devices/devices/
<davmor2> wiki says lots of things
<ali1234> the funny thing is that in the end it turned out that the wiki was correct and all the advice people gave me was wrong
<davmor2> ali1234: I'll pass the message on though
<daftykins> wow an up to date wiki! that's... unheard of
<davmor2> daftykins: :)
<ali1234> the problem was just that i needed to format system, because u-d-f can't
<daftykins> so the question remains, if the wiki had the info - why did you need to talk to people?
<ali1234> because the wiki doesn't mention that u-d-f doesn't know how to format unfortmatted partitions
<ali1234> i had to figure that part out myself though
<daftykins> ah well at least you can fix the wiki and make the world a better place now
<davmor2> ali1234: the nexus7 didn't need partitioning you could just flash from bootstrap and wipe the drive maybe that is the issue
<ali1234> davmor2: i never said anything about partitioning
<ali1234> it is impossible to modify the partitions on a nexus 7 without reflashing the first stage bootloader
<ali1234> the problem is that i did fastboot erase system instead of fastboot format system
<ali1234> and u-d-f is not smart enough to format it for me in that case
<ali1234> or perhaps the problem was userdata
<ali1234> and daftykins it's not the community wiki, so only canonical can edit it... i guess it's not really even a wiki any more, it's developer.ubuntu.com
<ali1234> or actually i might be wrong about that.. lets see
<davmor2> ali1234: it not only canonical it is ubuntu memebers and canonical and it is locked down because it was getting spammed every two seconds
<ali1234> davmor2: no, that's the community wiki you are talking about
<ali1234> the instructions i followed are at https://developer.ubuntu.com/en/phone/devices/installing-ubuntu-for-devices/
<ali1234> the community wiki is now locked down too, so i can't edit that anymore
<davmor2> ali1234: well that isn't a wiki that is a website that is controlled by popey and co iirc
<ali1234> it used to be a wiki, albiet one that only canonical could edit
<daftykins> well that's sucky
<daftykins> i suppose it's not hugely worth resolving issues on such old devices
<davmor2> ali1234: no it wasn't it's been wordpress and now django iirc but popey can confirm
<ali1234> daftykins: there is no issue, it works fine as long as you format the partitions first
<ali1234> it is expected that you just install it over android without wiping
<daftykins> ah i was getting the idea of an inaccurate guide
<ali1234> no the guide is accurate it just missed one crucial piece of information:
<ali1234> ubuntu does not work like every android rom ever made. it requires the partitions to be formatted before you install it.
<ali1234> and also it won't tell you what the problem is if they aren't
<daftykins> funny, if i were changing ROM i'd format everything first
<ali1234> i know right?
<ali1234> well, formatting it is fine, erasing it is not
<ali1234> but for example, flash-all.sh will just work no matter what state the device is it
<ali1234> that's what the factory roms use
<popey> ali1234: anyone can edit the wiki, it's not locked down, you just need to be in the right launchpad group - ~ubuntu-wiki-editors
<daftykins> "diabetes pumps obey unencrypted radio commands" that seems like old news
<zmoylan-pi> i did like when they installed a pacemaker in cheney they disabled the wireless link to prevent hackers...
<daftykins> "replacement galaxy note 7 explodes during boarding of a southwest flight"
<daftykins> oh samsung, you're in trouble now
<zmoylan-pi> horribly unlucky for them
<dogmatic69> Just found some files that are chgrouped to 'guest-xutdxq'
<dogmatic69> any idea?
<dogmatic69> google has 0 results for 'guest-xutdxq' search
<ali1234> did you log in to the guest account?
<daftykins> well the second portion definitely looks generated
<ali1234> yeah
<daftykins> so a google result would be quite improbable ;D
<ali1234> http://askubuntu.com/questions/337861/why-there-are-many-guest-accounts-on-my-system
 * lopta slumps across his desk.
#ubuntu-uk 2016-10-06
<knightwise> morning everyone
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<knightwise> hey zmoylan-pi
<zmoylan-pi> all well?
<diplo> Morning all
<SebthreeBQM10HD> morning
<davmor2> Morning all
<SebthreeBQM10HD> davmor2, morning
<davmor2> morning SebthreeBQM10HD
<SuperMatt> morning
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<SuperMatt> HOW DARE YOU ASSUME MY GENDER! I'll have you know I'm an apache attack helicopter
<brobostigon> :)
<davmor2> SuperMatt: so the pilots will call you a her then so you are a girl :P
<JamesTait> Good morning all! Happy Thursday, and happy Mad Hatter Day! ð  ð©
<davmor2> JamesTait: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Od6hY_50Dh0 should cover it :)
<JamesTait> davmor2, I can't think of a more appropriate song. âº
<davmor2> JamesTait: well anything by madness I guess and there is this from the ost iirc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6GtPW4nB3Ro
<davmor2> JamesTait: but I think Freddie is just perfect :)
<SebthreeBQM10HD> hi
<knightwise> SuperMatt: you mean to say that you tend to spin around in circles and generate a lot of wind ?
<SuperMatt> Much like a politican, yes
#ubuntu-uk 2016-10-07
<diplo> Morning all
<knightwise> good morning diplo
<davmor2> Morning all you funky people happy Friday
<knightwise> Yupz
<knightwise> according to elon musk we live in the matrix so .. perhaps they will reboot the program and its monday all over again
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<JamesTait> Good morning all! Happy Friday, and happy World Smile Day! ð
<Gargoyle> :D
<Gargoyle> Mornin'
<davmor2> JamesTait: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nnkyT0D31qI
<Gargoyle> How do I find my Java home dir / current JDK path?
<JamesTait> Gargoyle, does `update-alternatives --display java` help?
<Gargoyle> JamesTait, Yup, thanks. I found it "manually" but wanted to know what the "proper" way was for the default one the system is using.
<knightwise> Harg !
<knightwise> Hope its weekend soon :(
<SuperMatt> me too
<SuperMatt> although I'm doing my other job tomorrow
<SuperMatt> so I don't get much of a weekend
<knightwise> SuperMatt: know what you mean
<knightwise> Harg :( Did some consulting for a client last week , did a meeting,  wrote up a report .. now he refuses to pay because we didnt make him a quote.
<knightwise> Cant believe people "assume" that because you are a consultant, all the advice you give is for free
<zmoylan-pi> they're trying it on
<zmoylan-pi> anything to get out of paying
<SuperMatt> I have the problem with my other job is that I have to invoice my "boss", who invoices the client, so it takes months to get paid :(
<knightwise> zmoylan-pi: true , this client usually pays very fast and pays up for all the work we do, so i'm gonna have to let this "slide" .. grr
<zmoylan-pi> in that case i'd find a way to increase 1-2 of those bills to not get the money back but get the money out of their hands so less of a victory... but i'm petty like that :-)
<knightwise> Yep , gonna slide in those hours in the next bills
<zmoylan-pi> #littlevictories
<knightwise> yeah .. its gonna be like that
<knightwise> man i hate working for those small companies sometimes
<knightwise> did some work for 2 shops in town here (Consulting on social media) both : did not get payed
<knightwise> (yet)
<diddledan> https://www.defectivebydesign.org/blog/tim_bernerslee_just_gave_us_opening_stop_drm_web_standards
<diddledan> it's a gentoo upgrade night
<diddledan> \o/ for gentoo </troll>
<zmoylan-pi> is there a compiling benefit to using gentoo? :-P
<diddledan> this cycle needs new kernel compilation so I've got to faff-about in menuconfig
<zmoylan-pi> so how many hours does it take to compile?  and on what cpu/ram config?
<diddledan> too many
<diddledan> I kinda think that Microsoft have much grander plans for the Windows Subsystem-for-Linux than they've told us about so far. They just shipped an insider build that includes the pivot_root syscall, which for "Bash on Windows" seems a bit out-of-scope
<Gargoyle> Any thoughts on why I've lost the ability to Super+Tab between apps? (Running gnome, not unity)
<Gargoyle> Strange... Only happens when netbeans is running!
<brobostigon> new mock the week, bbc2, :)
#ubuntu-uk 2016-10-08
<daftykins> the 5am pi reboot! :>
<MartijnVdS> piboot!@
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<diddledan> m00
<diddledan> don't you love random butt-dialing
<SuperEngineer> dunno - I've never dialled a random butt
<celebru> join pokemon
 * penguin42 noticed that GUADEC is up in Manchester next year
<diddledan> https://twitter.com/bagrow/status/784066050941943808
<penguin42> heck that's neat
<diddledan> time for me to lose my man cred by watching strictly
<zmoylan-pi> depends what ballgown you wear while doing so...
<popey> Azelphur: I just joined a random TF2 server (not played for ages) and your name flashed up :)
<daftykins> XD
#ubuntu-uk 2016-10-09
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<daftykins> o/
<daftykins> ah nothing like an early morning cycle on a freshly lubed bike to wake up
<brobostigon> :)
<daftykins> i say that like i do that often, but this is like a one-off :>
<brobostigon> oh dear.
<daftykins> well i'm only just back and with winter approaching, riding in the wet again like i've done my whole life is no fun for anyone :D
<brobostigon> yep, pushbike and or motorbike too.
<daftykins> need to do some more of that, the hiking i did in the US showed me how unfit i was
<daftykins> any plans for the day, sir?
<brobostigon> voluntary job, 11am-3pm.
<daftykins> ah cool
<daftykins> i saw a piece in the in-flight magazine on flying back to the island last, of a kids drop-in centre type charity thing here in town, i thought about offering IT work cheap/free as a volunteering thing
<daftykins> give a little back and all that
<brobostigon> :)
<brobostigon> similer to what i am doing, have done before.
<daftykins> ah yeah
<brobostigon> if people wont pay me to do it, i may as well do it for nothing, rther than let my skills go to waste.
<daftykins> *nod* well said
<daftykins> gives exposure and training in a way, too
<brobostigon> yes
<daftykins> mmm my Linux skills are gonna get stale if i don't move to a systemd based release i suspect :(
<daftykins> but i do so love LTS
<daftykins> so i'm comfy with my systems staying on 14.04 (:
<JonTheNiceGuy[m]> Systems actually isn't that bad.
<JonTheNiceGuy[m]> Systemd (damn you autocorrect)
<daftykins> oh i know a bias is common, but i don't have one i just haven't had time or exposure
<SuperEngineer> Hmm... some bloke in next field shooting at birds. I think I may have found a use for a wasp nest if anybody has one spare.
<daftykins> XD
<daftykins> field o0
<SuperEngineer> yeah, a field... now gimme a wasp nest
<zmoylan-pi> 1 wasp nest or a disgruntled badger...
<SuperEngineer> [I think he might even be on this channel because he's just dtopped shooting :-D ]
<zmoylan-pi> or reloading with louder ammo
<SuperEngineer> a disgruntled honey badger seems a good choice if you have one
<zmoylan-pi> amazon prime, used, allow 3 working days for delivery... and 2 days to prise it off the deliverymans leg with a shovel... (shovel not included)
<zmoylan-pi> see gods must be crazy ii for details... :-P
<SuperEngineer> "louder ammo" is not, methinks his priority.  Larger spread ammo is probably his thought coz he seems to have very bad aiming hand/eye coordination :-)
<zmoylan-pi> yeah... if you can't hit it with a shotgun then just stop...
<SuperEngineer> errmmm... I don't think it's actually the arm that honey badgers attack.  [let's just say you need to keep your legs crossed near one and preferably wear armoured underpants]
<daftykins> http://guernseypress.com/news/2016/10/08/st-peters-resident-traps-six-ferrets-after-two-chickens-killed/
<daftykins> seems Guernsey has some trouble with some previously escaped pets of late
 * SuperEngineer imagines bloke running around field trying to hit the birds with butt of his gun :-D
<zmoylan-pi> someone let their pets go free and they're breeding wild
<SuperEngineer> daftykins: TWO chickens?!  a whole TWO chickens?!  They must be petrified.
<zmoylan-pi> if you keep a few chickens for eggs/food every one counts
<zmoylan-pi> but those ferrets will also be killing everything in sight
<SuperEngineer> yup, chickens are good  with maths
<zmoylan-pi> rabbits, birds
<SuperEngineer> honey badgers
<SuperEngineer> zebra faced hobbits..
<SuperEngineer> the lot!
<SuperEngineer> Ferrets are indeed one of the most dangerous of cuddly animals
<zmoylan-pi> and people still put them down their pants...
<SuperEngineer> A thought re " keep a few chickens for eggs/food every one counts".  If you have it for food you can't count it anymore
<SuperEngineer> & it certainly can't count after eating it.  it's maths ability disappears during cooking apparently
<zmoylan-pi> one person at least in this channel keeps chickens... that i know off
<SuperEngineer> [probably more than 1]
<zmoylan-pi> probably
<SuperEngineer> for instance: I myself keep their eggs, temporarily ;-)
<daftykins> SuperEngineer: sign o' things to come though
<SuperEngineer> yup
<zmoylan-pi> and of course the weirdest military technology also involves chickens... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Peacock#Chicken_power
<SuperEngineer> I liked the rference to some bod called Tom O'Leary, Tim O'Leary seems more appropriate in that article
<zmoylan-pi> it does seem drug inspired a little
<SuperEngineer> yup
<SuperEngineer> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timothy_Leary
<SuperEngineer> https://twitter.com/SuprEngr/status/785077455690276864/photo/1
<zmoylan-pi> but isn't that the american number...
<SuperEngineer> ok. you get to keep your license
<zmoylan-pi> i am not a whovian... i game with 3 whovians...
<zmoylan-pi> one of whom has cosplayed as the tardis...
<daftykins> impressive
<daftykins> i suppose at least that took care of the transport costs
<zmoylan-pi> well... everyone dresses as their favourite doctor...
<SuperEngineer> my favourite doctor is kind, gentle female with a wonderful touch.  Whoops - wrong sort of doctor [which is a relief as I don't fancy dressing as her]
 * SuperEngineer wonders what zmoylan-pi is dressing up as  :-D
<zmoylan-pi> i haven't dressed up for halloween since the 80s
<zmoylan-pi> very early 80s
<SuperEngineer> :-)
<zmoylan-pi> but there is gaelcon on this month for a few days and people are encouraged to come in costume...
<daftykins> i always thought it was an american thing as a kid
<zmoylan-pi> celtic festival... pumpkin lanterns were originally turnips
<daftykins> is that a contraction of 'gaelic' and 'loonie' ?
<zmoylan-pi> gaelcon is a gaming convention in ireland.  great fun.  money raised for charity. meet new gamers and try new games
 * zmoylan-pi packs nerf... again...
<SuperEngineer> Intersting "fact": you know it's been a tough week when you use the cursor keys on the keyboard to navigate the TV listings whilst wondering why no response on TV and the TV remote is by the keyboard.
<zmoylan-pi> means you haven't configured your pc to control your tv... yet...
<SuperEngineer> corrctimundo
<daftykins> :D
<SuperEngineer> A real beauty of a cat pic from Professor Brian Cox https://twitter.com/ProfBrianCox/status/785088902201827328/photo/1
<SuperEngineer> ['coz that's what t'internets is for]
<zmoylan-pi> gee.. i wonder why the cat is sitting in a box warmed by valves... :-)
<daftykins> zap zap zap
<penguin42> it likes the way the EHT makes it's fut stand up
<zmoylan-pi> makes it look bigger and more threatening... and snuggly warm...
<SuperEngineer> and, I guess, makes it eventually smell of burning cat fur!
<zmoylan-pi> had one cat that would sit so close to an antracite fireplace that her nose would occasionly touch the glass when she fell asleep and wake her instantly till she got drowsy again...
<SuperEngineer> youch!#
<zmoylan-pi> but after 15 minutes her fur would become too hot to touch and she'd then crawl under sofa to sleep till she cooled down and then sit in front of fireplace again
<SuperEngineer> zzzzzz, ouch, zzzzzz, opuch! zzzzz. ouch!
<zmoylan-pi> but utterly happy...
<SuperEngineer> :-)
<zmoylan-pi> her first bed was under a gas oven that got a lot of use... so she was used to the heat
<SuperEngineer> I'm glad you stated "under" rather than "in"
<SuperEngineer> "my cat loves the oven.. she went in there & loves it so much she won't leave" :-D
<zmoylan-pi> she did used to open the oven and steal food that was cooking in it while it was on.  which i never thought a cat could do
<zmoylan-pi> essentially sticking her paw into fire
<SuperEngineer> YIKES!
<zmoylan-pi> my mother got a few funny looks when she went shopping for an oven with a door a cat couldn't open...
<SuperEngineer> lol
<SuperEngineer> As an aside... don't you just love the Software Updater
<SuperEngineer> *Updater
<SuperEngineer> ... I have 3 distros on this computer
<SuperEngineer> and it often comes back with the result...
<SuperEngineer> "the software on this computer is up to date"
<SuperEngineer> WOW, that's clever.  Checking all 3 distros at the same time :-D
<zmoylan-pi> still better than windows that only considers the update done when it's broken any linux distros it finds... :-P
<SuperEngineer> :-D
<SuperEngineer> "nstalling update 1 of 3,000,101 - do not power off, shut down or hop[e you have a linux distro installed aftwerwards"
<daftykins> that's your fault for not maintaining it, not its'
<daftykins> your Linux distro is no different on package updates required
<zmoylan-pi> but you can keep using it while it updates
 * SuperEngineer agrees with zmoylan-pi 
<daftykins> that's moot when you plan properly
<daftykins> also most apps would be unhappy
<zmoylan-pi> whereas switching on a windows system for first time in months is purely for microsofts benefit as you won't get anything done
<daftykins> well that'd be a case of not using the right tool for the job, or asking just wtf you only power it on so rarely :)
<daftykins> i still think the kinds of comments out of Linux users with regard to Windows are quite sad
<zmoylan-pi> not everyone uses their computer every day... they have... you know... lives :-)
<daftykins> :O tell me of what rare lands these rare creatures must sprout from :D
 * SuperEngineer guesses daftykins real job is Microsoft PR
<zmoylan-pi> and for most of the linux users i know. there's only 1-2 windows apps needed once in a blue moon...
<zmoylan-pi> as a gamer who plays d&d about 1-2 a year a gm will need to fire up a character generator on a windows system and then curse and swear as windows does its whiny update silliness
<daftykins> no it's sense - and not spouting these childish OS biased statements that just serve to make you look daft as a brush :)
<SuperEngineer> ooooooooooo, daftykins has claws out
<daftykins> meh, it still won't update auto if you have a fraction of a clue
<SuperEngineer> ooooooooooo, daftykins definitely has claws out
<daftykins> and that rarely booted system is still at mercy of updates too, so once again moot statements
<SuperEngineer> meee-ooowww
<daftykins> well if you will insist on pointing yourself out to be utterly IT incompetent then yeah :)
<zmoylan-pi> windows update sucks.  end of story.
<daftykins> sure it does, but everything sucks - you just learn how to tame it as best you can
<SuperEngineer> daftykins: neither is this channel a place for insukts!
<daftykins> or you move to Linux and pretend that everythings perfect
<zmoylan-pi> sure but linux updates suck so much less
<daftykins> well i'm glad i haven't insukt anyone then :)
 * zmoylan-pi hands out the nerf and prepares for battle
<daftykins> seriously though, they're not meant as insults, they're statements
 * SuperEngineer realises wht F1 on TV right now is more interesting than this convop.
<daftykins> now just hand me that cuppa behind that person crying about the broken ubuntu upgrade and i'll be on my way ;)
<SuperEngineer> GONE
<daftykins> wow that's really telling :) F1 is dire!
<zmoylan-pi> f1 is soap opera for men :-)
<daftykins> haha nicely put
<zmoylan-pi> but then, i'd say that for most sports...
<NET||abuse> hey guys, i'm planning a mobile app, and to do the design review, annotation with the 3 other people, I really liked the idea of redpen, or projecthuddle, but i'd rather have a selfhosted opensource solution, anyone know of something design focused that i could use?
<NET||abuse> Has anyone seen anything like that? A design sharing/collaboration annotation tool.
<daftykins> newp, first thing that comes to mind is a remote desktop tech with other programs open
<JonTheNiceGuy[m]> NET||abuse take a look at sandstorm.io there are apps there which will possibly work for you.
<JonTheNiceGuy[m]> Like https://apps.sandstorm.io/app/c6zfftftrra9d4pdyuc1psew65ukqrjujvk20fac4zke1uasxv10
 * penguin42 keeps meaning to get sandstorm going
<penguin42> somewhere after the other 70 things he means to get going
<JonTheNiceGuy[m]> Although depending on what you're working on this might be better: https://apps.sandstorm.io/app/1gda5n8p8zsc0r9pcana2yjgtvsq169068k4ve8mk68z4x9fvzuh
<JonTheNiceGuy[m]> Penguin42 it's very easy to stand up.
<penguin42> JonTheNiceGuy[m]: maybe I've just got to fit it into my schedule of not getting around to stuff
<JonTheNiceGuy[m]> penguin42: :D
<diddledan> morning
<diddledan> penguin42: I know where I can get a round tuit for you
<diddledan> (my parents have one)
<diddledan> aww, I just quit :-(
<diddledan> byebye me :-(
<penguin42> diddledan: I think I need a 5 pack
<diddledan> yey, the prodigal me returns!
<diddledan> wow, my other me is super bouncy today
<ubuntivity> Hello. can I meet Mr. Albuxton ?
<popey> that would be ali1234
<ubuntivity> I need help making a presentation file from about 60 images using a script.
<ubuntivity> popey: I've been told so too :)
<ubuntivity> ali1234: You seem to be a script guru, can you please help me with my quest?
<ali1234> okay i guess
<ali1234> what makes you think i can help you?
<ubuntivity> ali1234: I've been referred to you by someone :)
<ubuntivity> ali1234: CoderEurope in particular :D
<ali1234> i have no idea who that is
<popey> our friend from the isle of man who changes his irc nickname frequently
<ubuntivity> ali1234: you apparently are a famous person
<ali1234> oh that guy...
<ali1234> okay so what type of presentation do you want?
<ubuntivity> What I need to do is this: I have 60 image files, I want to make a LibreOffice Impress presentation file, with each slide containing one image filling it.
<ali1234> insert -> picture -> photo album
<popey> yeah, libreoffice has this built in these days
<ubuntivity> ali1234: I use LibreOffice 3.5.7 , it doesn't support this feature
<ubuntivity> ali1234: I tried several times to build the newer versions but they seem to crash the system.
<ali1234> why can't you just upgrade?
<popey> 3.5.7 is very old
<ubuntivity> ali1234: this is the most recent version in my system's repository
<popey> you running 12.04?
<ubuntivity> popey: Bingo
<ubuntivity> popey: It is the most stable version for my laptop, 12.04
<popey> https://ask.libreoffice.org/en/question/30365/libreoffice-4-2-ppa-for-ubuntu-1204-1310-how-to-install-tutorial/
<popey> that ppa is an official one
<popey> and will bring you up to 4.x
<ubuntivity> popey: every other version has wireless problems with my wireless
<ubuntivity> popey: I remember I've tried an external PPA, but the result was not satisfying: the installed version had problems regarding fonts, and couldn't recognize Arabic text nor Arabic fonts.
<popey> in fact libreoffice 4.4 is available too https://launchpad.net/~libreoffice/+archive/ubuntu/libreoffice-4-4
<popey> was it that ppa though?
<popey> Others exist, that one is official
<ubuntivity> I remember I've tried the official PPA from the LibreOffice website
<ubuntivity> popey: I also remember it obligating me to remove the previous version before installing the new one
<popey> yes, that is normal
<ubuntivity> popey: which made me end with a broken, non-downgradable version of LibreOffice
<popey> oh dear.
<popey> the other option is to get the binary version and just unpack it in a folder
<popey> rather than the packaged version
<ubuntivity> popey: like a portable program?
<ubuntivity> popey: I would like to have my older version present and viable just-in-case
<popey> yes, that is possible
<popey> you can get the linux build as a tarball, and unpack it in your home directory
<ubuntivity> popey: So, the binary version, does it require any compiling/dependencies/etc ???
<popey> no
<popey> it's ready-built
<ubuntivity> popey: where can I download that please??
<popey> on their website :)
<ubuntivity> and just for the sake of curiosity: is there a text-based presentation file type? so that I can build my own presentation file using bash script?
 * popey tries to find it
<Myrtti> latex
<Myrtti> :-D
<Myrtti> â¥  LaTeX + Beamer
<Myrtti> r
<ubuntivity> popey: on the website, I can only find deb or rpm files
<ubuntivity> popey: no pre-compiled version I can see
<ubuntivity> popey: hold on.. I think there is a portable versions page
<ubuntivity> popey: portable versions are only in .exe formats!!!!
<popey> well, another way to do it is download the rpm and unpack it.
<popey> and run it from the unpacked directory
<popey> might work :)
<ubuntivity> popey: will that simply do the job?
<popey> or, yeah, find a command line tool, or upgrade the machine...
<popey> possibly, not tried
<ubuntivity> popey: I'll try it
<popey> and I have no 12.04 machines
<ubuntivity> popey: but I hope it won't affect my current LibreOffice installation by any means
<popey> well, if you're worried, then look for another solution
<ubuntivity> popey: I was hoping to dd that old-school
<ubuntivity> popey: CLI scripting
<diddledan> Myrtti: suits you, girl!
<diddledan> gotta love a good bit of LaTeX
 * ubuntivity has done his task..... by the tedious drag-and-drop
<diddledan> oh myy
<diddledan> ubuntivity: you've come undone?!
<ubuntivity> diddledan: what are you talking about? who are you anyway?
 * diddledan should learn to read
<diddledan> who am I, you ask? who aren't I, I retort!
 * ubuntivity thinks "yes he should"
<ubuntivity> diddledan: are you a bot? a man? an alien? a fridge?
<diddledan> yes
<zmoylan-pi> the smeganator 2000.  best refrigerator terminator evar!!
<diddledan> speaking of bots, I really need to stop procrastinating
<zmoylan-pi> procrastinate now! \o/
 * ubuntivity is astonished at the smart answer
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi: at least it's not a depressed toaster
<diddledan> or a Paranoid Android
<zmoylan-pi> the talkie toaster is dangerous
<diddledan> reminds me, I really need to tighten the diodes down my left-hand side
<zmoylan-pi> and not replace them?
<diddledan> that's expensive
<ubuntivity> diddledan: diodes are for ancient people
<zmoylan-pi> quantum triodes or nothing?
<ubuntivity> diddledan: now it is the age of triodes
<diddledan> I prefer bio neural gel packs
<diddledan> until they catch the flu, of course
<ubuntivity> diddledan: Trio neural gel packs are better
<ubuntivity> Biology vs Triology
<diddledan> I always try
<ubuntivity> Tri harder
<diddledan> never succeed, but at least I try.
<ubuntivity> Tr(i) even harder
 * zmoylan-pi prefers good solid androids available on the streets of dublin at a fair price... https://twitter.com/angryearthling/status/632595098577018880
<diddledan> I'm a right bug creator, a bugger if you will: https://bugs.launchpad.net/snappy/+bug/1631801
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 1631801 in Snappy "snapd removes Exec lines from .desktop file on installation" [Undecided,New]
<diddledan> wow. https://youtu.be/t6qF5NU-ehU
#ubuntu-uk 2017-10-02
<MooDoo> howdy all
<diplo> Morning all
<Gargoyle> o/
<SuperMatt> morning all
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<ali1234> this "backportpackage" script is really useful :)
<m0nkey_> diddledan: It was time for a network upgrade at Casa de la m0nkey_. I bought this last night. Seems to have solid reviews. Boring and in my price range. Now I no longer have a shortage of ethernet ports.. https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B00I5W5EGA
<m0nkey_> And yes, I know.. it's not 10 GbE and I don't care. Not going 10 GbE for a while yet.
<Gargoyle> I recently upgraded my whole setup (as part of house re-wire) and went for a full 24 port POE switch.
<Gargoyle> I have wireless routers that run from POE, so I can move them easily if needed (great for garden parties) and I got a POE power adaptor for a Raspberry Pi, so I can run that anywhere there is an ethernet port! :D
<m0nkey_> I did think about getting a PoE switch, but I only have one PoE device (wireless ap).
<diddledan> m0nkey_: I love you, so here, have a https://go.bwlh.at/random-dicking
<m0nkey_> is that safe for work?
<m0nkey_> because I don't want a random dick on my screen
<diddledan> you won't be disappointed
<m0nkey_> lol
<m0nkey_> <3 RMS
<m0nkey_> Although, I follow the way of the Daemon.
<diddledan> :-p
<diddledan> the daemon is cute and has a pointy poker thingy
<m0nkey_> But you wouldn't have known that from the Fedora VM I run at work to access my home VPN and IRC :)
<m0nkey_> FreeBSD sucks as a desktop
<m0nkey_> But it's awesome at servers
<m0nkey_> Or .. I can't get vmware tools to work in FreeBSD
<m0nkey_> :)
<PYT> hi
<diddledan> I feel the need to pull out mr pointy
<diddledan> https://i.pinimg.com/originals/7b/39/91/7b3991fab6715a62ffb28d709b82f4eb.jpg
<daftykins> ah my fingerlongerer
<diddledan> oh myy, what a long finger you have
<diddledan> "all the better for inuendo, my dear"
<diddledan> why does "inuendo" sound so sexual?
<daftykins> such recursion, sir
<diddledan> I didn't get where I am today, without being recusive
<diddledan> recursive, too
<diddledan> I need a new thingy
 * diddledan goes onto the thingy shop
 * diddledan types lovehoney
 * diddledan then adds a dotcom
<diddledan> nsfw
<daftykins> that pesky fasthosts are upping loads of domain prices!
<diddledan> :-o
<diddledan> BAR TENDERS!
<diddledan> err, stewards
<daftykins> the very same
<daftykins> ah well, not my domains ;D
<daftykins> also huzzah at finding the Irish registrar blacknight.com who do .gg's for much less than my existing choice
<daftykins> diddledan: check this out - http://forums.kodi.tv/
<diddledan> o_O
<diddledan> wow
<diddledan> that's shoddy
<diddledan> who were they with...?
<daftykins> not sure, could maybe bug the hosting guy in the week to find out
#ubuntu-uk 2017-10-03
<m0nkey_> Why don't they use AWS or one of the various VPS providers to build their forum infra?
<daftykins> paid for with what money?
<m0nkey_> Don't they make any money?
<diddledan> I figured kodi had corporate sponsorship these days
<diddledan> I mean silicondust are promoting how they're fully supporting the hdhomerun on kodi
<diddledan> as an example
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<SuperMatt> morning
<diplo> Morning all
<MooDoo> howdy all
<brobostigon> morning
<nsap> Hello, any idea why Ctrl+Alt+Arrows doesn't switch workspaces anymore? It used to work until yesterday
<nsap> I have tried with a guest session and it works fine, so I guess there is a problem in my config files but I can't find it. Workspaces are enabled, keyboard works, keyboard layout is the right one. How can I restore normal behavior without blindly erasing all of .config?
<diddledan> Amber Rudd says she doesn't need to understand encryption to break it: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-41463401
<Laney> understanding things only makes them harder
<diddledan> someone has asbestos hands: https://twitter.com/troyhunt/status/915212314894376960
<MooDoo> having fun laney :D
<Guest24649> trying to set up https://freenode.net/kb/answer/certfp
<Guest24649> didn't work ...
<MooDoo> booo
<diddledan> we're not living in the matrix: https://boingboing.net/2017/10/03/elon-is-wrong.html
<MooDoo> darn i wanted to learn kung fu
<diddledan> Blade Runner 2049 makes me very NSFW: https://youtu.be/zvFp9v_InWM
<diddledan> wow, that's some epic CSS work: https://codepen.io/rrenula/pen/LzLXYJ
<m0nkey_> lol, had one of my webapps pen tested. got pawnd. and patched.
<diddledan> \o/
<diddledan> I don't suppose you can go into much detail
<diddledan> (as in not allowed)
<m0nkey_> it was a remote code execution exploit.
<diddledan> ee
<m0nkey_> it was a super simple fix too
<diddledan> gotta love RCE
<m0nkey_> s/\|//     <<<--- that was the fix
<diddledan> wow
<diddledan> https://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/regular_expressions.png
<m0nkey_> my code was calling an executable, not the best way to do things, i just forgot to fully sanitize the parameters passed to it
<diddledan> easily done
<m0nkey_> but this testing was done on purpose.
<m0nkey_> we found it before anyone else did
<diddledan> annoying that on posix systems that the shell is used to start other programs (normally)
<m0nkey_> there is a safer way to do this, but the safe way doesn't allow for easy collecting of output
<diddledan> as in "I'm in php. let me start that binary." << system: "oh you want to run that binary? let me run your command in bash first"
<diddledan> all commands lead to bash
<m0nkey_> if somebody has a way to perform a traceroute and ping via perl without calling anything from the system, that'll be awesome.
<m0nkey_> i've tried some perl modules, but they're  a bitch to get working
<diddledan> oh gawd. I can't grok perl
<m0nkey_> There is the net::Ping module, but I have to run the ping on a remote system.
<m0nkey_> *sigh*
#ubuntu-uk 2017-10-04
<diddledan> https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/10/03/yahoo_says_one_beeelion_user_hack_figure_wrong_its_three/
<m0nkey_> diddledan: you still awake?
<diddledan> nope
<m0nkey_> lol
<m0nkey_> I think I've solved my issue with calling other programs from perl, without it launching a shell
<diddledan> \o/
<m0nkey_> https://pastebin.com/A0BhGjUq
<diddledan> aha
<diddledan> fork
<m0nkey_> yeah
<m0nkey_> super simple
<m0nkey_> and it works
<m0nkey_> now, I have to figure out how I can run the command remotely. but I guess my program is my ssh session and my options and args are my actual application and args
<m0nkey_> nice thing now, i have a way to add, remove and validate all options and args before executing
<m0nkey_> simple to itterate through the array and remove anything that breaks out, such as & or |
<m0nkey_> so something like:
<m0nkey_> for(@options) { s/(\||\&)//g; }
<m0nkey_> that should be enough to remove any crap
<diddledan> check for ; too
<m0nkey_> good idea
<m0nkey_> yeah, that code works
<diddledan> awesome
<m0nkey_> ping: cannot resolve 127.0.0.1echo hello: Unknown host
<m0nkey_> child exited 17408 at ./fork.pl line 26.
<m0nkey_> just stripped that crap
<m0nkey_> even more regex: s/\Q(\||\&|\;)\E//g;
<m0nkey_> \Q and \E to treat everything as a string
<m0nkey_> so no nasty escape sequences
<m0nkey_> change the for to a map and voila!
<m0nkey_> map { s/\Q(\||\&|\;)\E//g; } @options;
<m0nkey_> that should be enough to strip all the crap
<diddledan> step 2: ..., step 3: profit
<m0nkey_> ok, so this is the final snippit.. https://pastebin.com/A0BhGjUq
<diddledan> Simples
<m0nkey_> and backtick, that can be used to execute code too
<m0nkey_> https://pastebin.com/A0BhGjUq
<m0nkey_> that should be it
<m0nkey_> i modified it to write the output of the code to a buffer instead of stdout
<m0nkey_> allowing me then to keep the output in a var
<m0nkey_> #perl tell me I don't need to escape. seems they're right. it gets treated like a normal character
<diddledan> Lol, MS says of SQL Server âthis is not just a database engine. This is an enterprise database platformâ <â whatâs the diff??
<diddledan> Thatâs from this video: https://youtu.be/mvr143yvLmk
<m0nkey_> im out
<m0nkey_> g'night folks
<diddledan> No
<diddledan> Err
<diddledan> Nn
<diddledan> Silly auto erect
<m0nkey_> Indeed. Silly erect.
<m0nkey_> cya
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<diplo> Morning all
<SuperMatt> good morning
<brobostigon> morning
<MooDoo> howdy all
<SuperMatt> howdoomoodoo?
<MooDoo> :)
<SuperMatt> oh man, I don't want to work today
<SuperMatt> or ever
<MooDoo> you're not the only one mat4y
<MooDoo> see can't even type today lol
<SuperMatt> indeed
<SuperMatt> typing is for losers
<zmoylan-pi> i win \o/ i get to go to hospital with a wonky foot
<MooDoo> boooooooooooo
<diplo> popey: Just trying gnome-contacts on Solus and it's failing to load.. where is the best place to go from here ? the forums or a repo ?
<popey> yeah, try the forum, and tag @kenvandine on it
<diplo> I just found a post mentioning gnome-contacts
<diplo> thanks
<SuperMatt> diplo: Ubuntu
<SuperMatt> ;_
<SuperMatt> ;)
<diplo> heh, I was waiting for one person to do that SuperMatt :)
<diplo> Just knew I'd get him here and it's snappy related which is ubuntu
<diddledan> who wears short shorts?
<diplo> Nope, never..
<diddledan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UcvjXAtzaMU
<diddledan> omg, CD-ROMs?! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9NU_XI7fguI
<diddledan> lol, love that they thought that the killer product to put on CDROM was "more encyclopedias, better encyclopedias..."
<zmoylan-pi> encarta did very well.  a new version every year. kerching
<zmoylan-pi> of course in the early years encarta made a lot of dosh for pc sales.... no it won't work if your pc has no cd-rom....  no it's better with sound...
<diddledan> nearly time for the googs (50 minutes)
<zmoylan-pi> come see our new phones without headphone jacks?
<diddledan> yup
<zmoylan-pi> how... untempting
<diddledan> annoyingly, I'll only see the first 30 minuets live, cos I have to go out at 5:30
<zmoylan-pi> see if only you had google glass 3 you watch it on the fly out and about till you walk into a lampost not marked on os maps :-P
<diddledan> :-)
<zmoylan-pi> fixed in google glass 4!
<daftykins> crikey, domain registrar's DNS control panels can be so inconsistent
<diddledan> it's android time
<diddledan> life stream: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YGoxbeSzLc
<diddledan> live, too
 * zmoylan-pi puts on the soap opera androids... hums away to the theme tune...
<daftykins> time for another $900 phone announcement
<diddledan> human lives matter too. AIs shouldn't be privileged
<diddledan> I vote for "people first" rather than "AI First"
<zmoylan-pi> be quiet human, or we'll cut your food pellet supply!
<diddledan> AI and Software and Hardware?? you mean AI isn't software?
<diddledan> AIs are designing AIs now???!
<diddledan> has nobody even watched terminator?!
<zmoylan-pi> but it'll obey the generals who pay for it, the salesman said so
<daftykins> sales reps in the front row, mmm that's not what i'd want to hear XD
<zmoylan-pi> if they bring out ed-209 duck!
<diddledan> you have three seconds to comply
<diddledan> surprise, we're not releasing new phones
<zmoylan-pi> smart suppositories?
<diddledan> mmmm
<zmoylan-pi> no one will ever mug you for it...
<diddledan> I wonder how many times they're gonna say "Deep Learning"
<diddledan> BINGO
<daftykins> it's so uninteresting
<diddledan> radically helpful
<zmoylan-pi> it's a sales pitch with nothing new to show...
<diddledan> two different presenters, and nothing new yet
<zmoylan-pi> be excited aout the cloud!
<diddledan> maybe three is a charm
<diddledan> handsfree calling in the UK? free?
<diddledan> fourth presenter, and still no new hardware
 * daftykins suddenly remembers Arnold Rimmer instructing the Scutters to repaint Red Dwarf
<zmoylan-pi> it was the wrong shade of gray
<zmoylan-pi> and it's arnold j. rimmer ssc bsc to you
<diddledan> mustn't forget the bsc
<zmoylan-pi> very important
<daftykins> apologies :>
<diddledan> I wonder how accurate that kids behaviour would be
<diddledan> it's certainly a good idea to keep kids occupied. I just not sure they'll respond like that
<daftykins> now you need a soundproof room to put them in
<diddledan> chromebook
<diddledan> ok, pixiebook
<daftykins> cheap? well no, no...
<zmoylan-pi> only one question, can it run linux?
<diddledan> wat. a browser only laptop with 16GB of RAM?!
<zmoylan-pi> well the browser is chrome...
<diddledan> point
<zmoylan-pi> which has an appetite for ram that makes zombies look vegan...
<ahayzen> "the snap team is working with us" ... then you realise they are talking about snapchat not snappy :')
<diddledan> 1000$ for a tablet
<diddledan> that's as cheap as the new iphone
<zmoylan-pi> well you wouldn't want your phone to feel left out
<diddledan> yup, no headphone hole
<zmoylan-pi> pay more get less
<diddledan> dig at apple there
<m0nkey_> diddledan: my new code is being pentested now. so far, it hasn't got in.
<diddledan> \o/
<zmoylan-pi> huzzah
<m0nkey_> I also re-wrote the re-write :)
<diddledan> hah
<diddledan> metarewrite
<daftykins> you see Austin, he loves coooooode
<m0nkey_> https://pastebin.com/2WzeCSRT
<m0nkey_> that's the new routine
<m0nkey_> using open3
<m0nkey_> the scan is on-going, but i haven't been penetrated yet
 * diddledan penetrates m0nkey_ 
<daftykins> what if her family aren't in the kitchen?
<daftykins> ;D
 * m0nkey_ sighs
<m0nkey_> dear Amazon.ca, please ship my crap.
<m0nkey_> I want my switch
<daftykins> i think there are health and safety ethics against that
<daftykins> heh you getting Zelda?
<m0nkey_> lol
<m0nkey_> not that kind of switch
<daftykins> ah :>
<m0nkey_> the switch i bought will serve a purpose
<m0nkey_> and not look pretty on the tv table, unused.
<m0nkey_> https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B00I5W5EGA
<daftykins> ah i've got one of those at a clients spare now, we had to move up to a 48 port for his house
<daftykins> too many gadgets :)
<m0nkey_> now you tell me :P
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> in fact i still haven't vacuumed out the dust and considered a plan for it, ah well it might go in his London flat perhaps
<daftykins> i'm flying out to his Spain pad and then checking out the London one from Monday next week!
<daftykins> SW6 if anyone lurks there :>
<daftykins> arsenip: ooh are you still in the area?
<zmoylan-pi> pssst.... don't use ryanair ;-)
<daftykins> heh client and his wife and kid were booked on Monarch until Monday...
<m0nkey_> fun, we monitor their network devices
<m0nkey_> lets look at the network utilization trend for the last month :)
<daftykins> o rry
<m0nkey_> oh yes, there is a drop of traffic
<m0nkey_> daftykins: PM? :)
<daftykins> sure
<daftykins> he... he showed me things D:
<m0nkey_> lol
<daftykins> :>
<m0nkey_> don't say that. diddledan will be unhappy
<daftykins> that's true, bit jelly he will be
<m0nkey_> btw, confirmed, the remote code execution bug has been fixed. changes pushed to prod. no more gaping hole.
<daftykins> vewy gewd, i thought you were unpenetrated earlier, though
<m0nkey_> I was penetrated yesterday
<m0nkey_> then i patched the hole
<daftykins> ah right
<m0nkey_> thankfully it was during a security scan that revealed it, not some black hat.
<daftykins> yet ;D
 * diddledan penetrates m0nkey_ again
<zmoylan-pi> thars a hole in server dear liza, dear liza...
<daftykins> i've asked if i can go and check out my Dad's companies server, as apparently the excuse for why windows updates has been turned off on the domain for 2 years was "the disk was full"
<daftykins> *had
<zmoylan-pi> lets see a virus copy itself on there then!
<daftykins> pls viruses are so 90s
<m0nkey_> lol
<m0nkey_> anyway, going home time
<m0nkey_> talk later
 * zmoylan-pi leaves 8" floppy outside daftykins gaff...
<daftykins> m0nkey_: \o
<daftykins> zmoylan-pi: the drunks will get your floppy on the next wander by
<zmoylan-pi> that'll wipe off
<zmoylan-pi> unless they've been drinking tape head cleaner again
<m0nkey_> my netgear switch has shipped
<m0nkey_> i should see it tomorrow
<daftykins> \o/
#ubuntu-uk 2017-10-05
<diplo> Morning all
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<SuperMatt> morning brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning SuperMatt
<SuperMatt> I'm very hungry today
 * diplo passes SuperMatt an apple
 * brobostigon is thirsty this morning.
 * diplo passes brobostigon a cuppa tea :)
 * brobostigon thanks diplo :)
<SuperMatt> man, I am having such a great code day
<SuperMatt> I'm writing a library which takes a golang struct, and converts it in to a routing table, so you don't have to write long lists of routes for an API
<foobarry> forgot to sign in to irc for a week. what did i miss?
<brobostigon> our pm's voice falling over a contipated cat.
<brobostigon> constipated cat*
<brobostigon> sorry, i was trying to make a joke.
<Vir5ser> hey
<brobostigon> hi
<arsenip> `
<Vir5ser> how are you? brobostigon arsenip
<brobostigon> average, and you?
<Vir5ser> i am well
<Vir5ser> ;)
<Vir5ser> You up to anything cool?
<diddledan> get more microsoft in your android: https://www.androidcentral.com/microsoft-edge-browser-comes-iphone-today-android-soon
<SuperMatt> oh fun, another browser I can ignore!
<SuperMatt> firefox focus ftw
<diddledan> nasa likes their balloon room: https://arstechnica.co.uk/science/2017/10/nasa-inflatable-room-space-station/
<Rixon> is there any way I can install a package in recovery (read only) mode without remounting as rw?
<Rixon> I'm trying to get extundelete whilst in recovery mode to avoid writing to the root fs
<Rixon> do I need to make a desktop LiveCD or can I install packages in ram on server install CD somehow?
<ali1234> you can install packages in the live cd environment
<ali1234> i dont think you can do it on the server install
<Rixon> ok ty =)
<Rixon> I was trying to use the server install CD but quickly realised ash has a very limited set of commands, I think it's busybox?
<ali1234> yes probably
<daftykins> you probably want to take a disk image before having a stab
<diddledan> daftykins: STEP AWAY FROM THE HARD DRIVE
<daftykins> ;D
<diddledan> I really need to shut everything down, pull all the cables out and reorganise/tidy up my desk
<diddledan> I'm sure half of my power cables are going nowhere
<daftykins> :>
<daftykins> you don't work beside all the racked gear you obtained, do you?
<diddledan> ooh, esxi got a security patch today
<diddledan> I might do :-p
<daftykins> surely there's some noise to that!
<diddledan> not too bad
<daftykins> how do they tend to apply those, just lazily click in management software, or?
<diddledan> the paid editions have easy one click updates. the freebie you have to do it via the cli
<daftykins> ugh i finally got a response from the insurance adjuster as the works at mine have been held up for a couple of weeks again, but he's making me get yet more paperwork
<diddledan> gah
<daftykins> ah :>
<diddledan> have to run this to update the freebie:
<diddledan> https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/nQQEceSV/
<daftykins> ooh err
<diddledan> the -p argument changes depending on which update you're applying
<m0nkey_> God damnit Amazon. Post office says the package has been received and ready for collection, but I can't collect it because Amazon hasn't sent me the collection notice.
<daftykins> o0
<diddledan> \o/
<m0nkey_> Amazon give us the option to have it delivered to the local post office
<m0nkey_> Mostly because their courrier in Montreal blows and everybody knows it.
<diddledan> yodel. canada edition.?
<daftykins> XD
<daftykins> or almost any courier on Guernsey
<arsenip> there are couriers on the island?
<arsenip> or are we talking about farm animals being used as mule slaves?
<arsenip> :D
<daftykins> ;) mostly it's undesirables in an unmarket white van operating on behalf of ones that exist in England
<daftykins> arsenip: you anywhere near SW6 these days? i'm over next week
<daftykins> client bought another pad, haha
<arsenip> whaey
<arsenip> where?
<arsenip> oh
<arsenip> nay
<arsenip> im in SW16
<arsenip> my house.
<daftykins> o0
<daftykins> ah well that's only down the road!
<daftykins> and over a wet bit
<daftykins> arsenip: right beside chelsea stadium anywho
<arsenip> gotcha
<daftykins> and Brompton Cemetary
<daftykins> thinking of going to the vue beside to watch the new Blade Runner when i'm over
<daftykins> diddledan: lul - https://www.macrumors.com/2017/10/05/macos-high-sierra-disk-utility-vulnerability/
<diddledan> do I wanna get one of these? http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Digital-Device-Twin-Tuner-TV-Karte-DVB-S-S2-PCI-Express-Karte-DD-Cine-S2-V7A-/311899875954?hash=item489eae6a72:g:GxsAAOSwPK1ZSQnA
<diddledan> native support under linux in the mainline kernel (no third-party drivers)
<daftykins> if i were to get such i'd check the support for 'backend' setups that can pipe out to things like Kodi on the frontend
<daftykins> then rather than just use on one box, have it networkable to any device
<daftykins> i'd kinda like to play with such a setup but money and time to get broadcast TV? haha no :D
<ali1234> TBS have linux drivers for all their cards
<ali1234> https://www.tbsdtv.com/products/tbs6902-dvb-s2-dual-tuner-pcie-card.html
<diddledan> ali1234: except they're third-party drivers that aren't guaranteed to continue supporting new kernels
<ali1234> true
<ali1234> better than nothing though
<diddledan> that was my point above
<daftykins> i'd love to be able to offer a decent IP solution to compete against the new Sky Q setups
<m0nkey_> new GbE switch is live
<daftykins> how's the fan noise level? my clients one had quite the whine to it
<daftykins> the TP-Link 48 port has no fan at all :D
<m0nkey_> No fan in the v4
<m0nkey_> So it's 0dB :)
<daftykins> funky!
<daftykins> concerns me about putting it in in London tbh
#ubuntu-uk 2017-10-06
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<MooDoo> howdy all :)
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo
<MooDoo> how are you brobostigon ?
<brobostigon> hangover after wedding celebration last night. and you?
<MooDoo> I'm fine, just waiting for 1pm lol
<brobostigon> :)
<diplo> Part timer MooDoo !
<diplo> Morning all
<MooDoo> diplo: yeah started at 6
<diplo> I'd like that... problem is, most customers don't start till 8, even though I don't deal with them that often
<MooDoo> diplo: i don't deal with customers directly all the time, so that's ok
<diplo> My company is old, stuck in their ways, it's good and its bad. Can be so frustrating at times, there is really no need for me to sit in the office
<MooDoo> diplo: if i didn't have to support staff with trivial things, I'd work from home
<diplo> :)
<MooDoo> helps being it manager lol
<diplo> We don't really have any structure at our place
<diplo> So what do they do for 4 hours without the IT manager ?
<MooDoo> diplo: i've a collegue
<diplo> :)
<MooDoo> diplo: and our shifts are generally 8 - 4 so people know when we're in and cope when we're not
<diplo> Are you on call MooDoo ?
<diddledan> mycroft have a version 2.0?! https://techcrunch.com/video/mycroft-open-source-voice-assistant/59c2b725c214e377dac11512/
<MooDoo> diplo: not officially, but i'll answer if it rings during the week up until 10pm
<diplo> Can't ask more than that with it being not official :)
<MooDoo> diplo: yeah :)
<diddledan> wtf is a "functional distro"? https://nixos.org/
<diddledan> and no it doesn't mean "working"
<diddledan> they're using "functional" as in "functional programming"
<diddledan> "there is no /bin, /sbin, /lib, /usr, and so on. Instead all packages are kept in /nix/store."
<diddledan> joy
<MooDoo> :)
<m0nkey_> Aloha
<MooDoo> howdy
<diddledan> m00
<diddledan> https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/TTgdd8Y1/
<diddledan> I can't believe cowsay isn't in the default installation!!
<diddledan> scary email :  https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/HggkskXL/Screenshot%20from%202017-10-06%2013-29-55.png
<diddledan> methinks I shall not be opening that pdf
<m0nkey_> diddledan: Why are you not using Quassel?
 * diddledan checks his watch..
<diddledan> Tuesday?
<m0nkey_> Good. I want it installed, working and being used by Tuesday.
<diddledan> got a spare Ton and Ten (pounds)? https://play.google.com/store/movies/details/DC_Universe_25_Movie_Collection?id=i6sig4CJHDo
<diddledan> that's a lotta moolah
<diddledan> dnsmasq vuln: https://security.googleblog.com/2017/10/behind-masq-yet-more-dns-and-dhcp.html (announced Monday by Google, so probably patched already but I've only just heard about it and found it interesting)
<diddledan> I need something sweet. chocolate.
<diddledan> I love living with a sweetie shop a stone's throw away
<m0nkey_> yeah, that dnsmasq bug pushed back the release of pfsense 2.4
<diddledan> I wonder if I've left any wilys about
<daftykins> diddledan: i sure hope not
<diddledan> it's OK, I think they're all upgraded to Xenial now
<diddledan> ba dum. tsh
<daftykins> diddledan: not like you to have your wilys under controls
<daftykins> -s
#ubuntu-uk 2017-10-07
<ali1234> eclipse or intellij?
<ali1234> eclipse has the benefit of being packaged but apart from that it seems to be worse in every way
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls
#ubuntu-uk 2017-10-08
<baynsley> #EFAAGM
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<BobMottram[m]> Eclipse always seemed heavyweight to me. It's ok though.
<directhex_> BobMottram[m]: eclipse is so staggeringly bad it drove my entire professional career (against java & into c#)
<directhex_> "if java developers think this is fit for purpose i gotta get away from java"
<daftykins> :>
<daftykins> sir \o
<directhex_> ello
<daftykins> are ye well?
<directhex_> felt pretty sick today actually
<directhex_> but seem mostly recovered now
<daftykins> excellent! and in the grand scheme? :)
<directhex_> need to go get a rental car later. sadly from somewhere stupid as zipcar is v. popular over holiday days
<directhex_> still acclimatising to life in the US
<daftykins> you're braver than me
<daftykins> i wonder how my old mate kez is doing in LA, working for the devil... i mean Apple
<directhex_> buying a car has gone rapidly up the priority list - house sale should be completed on thursday, so i'll have money soon
<daftykins> er not LA, Cali as a whole
<daftykins> the one back in Blighty?
<directhex_> yeah
<directhex_> got hung up on crap conveyancing for months
<daftykins> i know that trouble, mmm
<daftykins> still dealing with insurance crap with mine atm
<directhex_> taking my driving test on wednesday. if i fail i'll take some actual lessons before trying again
<daftykins> i didn't think it was too tough over there, since 16 year olds can do it?
<daftykins> especially in an auto
<directhex_> daftykins: yeah, but still
<daftykins> i don't blame you, i don't hold a license either
<daftykins> and highways are kinda scary :P
<directhex_> i went from "hm, i should get a license" on tuesday night to "i passed my theory test" by wednesday lunchtime
<daftykins> hah
<daftykins> wonder if it's as thorough as the one over here
<daftykins> story goes they'll soon begin assessing driving style for environmental impact
<directhex_> also my UK license is only valid here until july
<daftykins> oh you did have one
<directhex_> yeah since 2006
<directhex_> thankfully found an insurance broker here who can get me covered using UK history (11 year old UK license has a lot of value in lowering premiums)
<directhex_> (vs 0-day-old MA license)
<directhex_> also plan to have paid for a car by this time next week
<daftykins> ah har
<daftykins> i'm gonna regret never having gotten a license tomorrow when i'm in the back seat with my clients 3 year old, driving down to their apartment in Spain
<directhex_> XD
<directhex_> if you'd got a license years ago you could be driving *yourself* in a convertible
<directhex_> but nooooo
<daftykins> ;)
<daftykins> in fairness i wouldn't want to pay for that
<directhex_> first time i came to the US with the missus, we rented a camaro as our car for the trip
<directhex_> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a0/2010ChevroletCamaro-05-1.jpg/1200px-2010ChevroletCamaro-05-1.jpg
<daftykins> there he goes in his new Camaro ~
<daftykins> mmhmm
<directhex_> currently following plan A and plan B for car in parallel
<directhex_> plan B is to buy a chevrolet bolt ev
<daftykins> mmhmm
<daftykins> and A?
<directhex_> plan a is to buy a very used tesla model s, then consider trading it in for a new tesla model 3 in march when my model 3 reservation matures
<daftykins> ah har
<directhex_> depending on how i feel about giant vs. smaller car, and new vs old
<directhex_> blocker on plan a is being dicked around by uk->us move screwing the reservation up
<directhex_> so if tesla don't fix it by, say, wednesday, i'll give them up
<daftykins> were they originally gonna ship it over?
<directhex_> bolt is fine. it's not a luxury car, the boot is small, but it's fine and moves like greased lightning through a goose
<directhex_> i reserved a model 3 in the UK, between july and october that became a RHD-only reservation rather than a "wherever jo lives" reservation
<directhex_> i don't really need a RHD car, in the UK, in 2019 :D
<daftykins> i'm unfamiliar with that acronym
<directhex_> right-hand drive
<daftykins> ah
<directhex_> i.e. UK/australia use
<daftykins> and Guernsey!
<daftykins> don't forget us! ;D
<directhex_> also UK and US teslas use a different charge connector
<daftykins> do they not require 240v adapters over there anyway, so it's not for voltage safety?
<directhex_> public chargers are 240
<directhex_> or high voltage DC
<directhex_> hang on i took some pics at the dealership
<directhex_> https://imgur.com/a/7f86g
