#launchpad 2004-09-20
<jblack_> debonzi: ping
<lalo> whaaaaa
<lalo> my bug disappeared :-(
<lalo> ah, no, here it is. :-)
<lalo> whoop, there it is...
<daf> SteveA: is it a Soyuz or a Launchpad meeting that's happening at 12:00 UTC?
<kiko> on monday? soyuz afaik.
<carlos> daf: tomorrow is launchpad, on monday, soyuz
<kiko> right.
<daf> oh, I see
<lalo> daf: is there any way yet to run the importer from the web interface?
<lalo> I have reason to believe #1935 would only happen in the script and ftest - it seems to be tied to the "zopeless" code in canonical.database
<daf> no, you can't import over the web yet, but it will be imported
<daf> s/imported/implemented/
<lalo> pity - I would like to test this hypothesis, but I don't want to spend an hour hacking traversal just for this :-P
<daf> you might well be right
<lalo> ugh
<lalo> I'm right :-P
<lalo> zopeless is simply discarding values
<lalo> the only thing that acutally *happens* on a zopeless setup is an insert, or so it seems
<debonzi> jblack_, pong
* lalo takes a big breath and starts trying to figure it out
<daf> I traced the code
<daf> what happens is this:
<daf> in the adapter code, something like "msgset.sequence = self.len" is executed
<jblack_> debonzi! Lets fix your problem. :) 
<daf> this invokes an SQLObject function
<daf> which sets a value somewhere and also sets a dirty flag on the msgset object
<daf> but it seems that the value is never actually written to the database
<daf> SQLBase is also involved somewhere
<SteveA> I think I know what might be happening
<SteveA> stub and I looked at problems with transactions / writing to the database
<SteveA> there's code in canonical.publishing that deals with this
<SteveA> by clearing an sqlobject or sqlos connection cache
<SteveA> and explicitly starting transactions etc.
<SteveA> This code won't be invoked for a zopeless setup
<SteveA> perhaps it is needed in this casE?
<lalo> oh
<lalo> you're talking about it? sorry :-P was looking at the code
<lalo> here's what happens
<lalo> the "zopeful" setup uses sqlos transaction objects
<SteveA> get_transaction().begin()
<SteveA>         name = getUtility(IConnectionName).name
<SteveA>         key = (thread.get_ident(), name)
<SteveA>         cache = sqlos.connection.connCache
<SteveA>         if cache.has_key(key):
<SteveA>             del cache[key] 
<SteveA> 
<lalo> so when an object is marked "dirty", it's inserted in a queue of objects that have to be flushed
<SteveA> do that at the start of the script
<SteveA> and get_transaction().commit() at the end
<lalo> the zopeless setup doesn't have any similar logic - there is no queue of objects to flush, so when the transaction is committed, there is no way to know what objects must be sync'ed
<lalo> (the "queue flush" thing of sqlos basically calls the sync() method of each object in the queue)
<daf> SteveA: I tried putting in a get_transaction().commit() at the end
<daf> (naiively)
<lalo> there seems to be, on first read, two possible fixes - either do make a queue of objects to sync(), or don't set lazyUpdates at all
<lalo> I think for a script or ftest the second approach may be better suited
<SteveA> lalo: I need to go to sleep now.  Can you send a mail to the launchpad list with what you've found out, after you've done a bit more trying things?
<lalo> ok
<SteveA> thanks
<lalo> np
<daf> SteveA: wouldn't adding comments to the bug make sense?
<SteveA> daf: perhaps.  I want spiv and stub to see this.
<daf> then perhaps they should be CC'd to the bug
* carlos goes to bed and tries to recover the hours he wasted programming on Powerbuilder instead of sleep since last week
<carlos> see you tomorrow
<lalo> I think I'll post to the list with a summary of what's going on and an URL to the bug
<lalo> carlos: 'nite
<lalo> suppose we need a component for this kind of stuff (database, sqlo, sqlos, canonical.database)
* lalo does a dance
<daf> lalo: yes, a component would make sense
<lalo> removing SQLBase._lazyUpdates makes my tests pass :-D
<lalo> yay for being right
<lalo> just have to be sure to commit at the end of the script
<lalo> ...which we're already doing, so it's ok
<lalo> launchpad_test=# select * from pomsgset where sequence = 0;
<lalo>  id | primemsgid | sequence | potemplate | pofile | iscomplete | obsolete | fuzzy | commenttext | filereferences | sourcecomment | flagscomment
<lalo> ----+------------+----------+------------+--------+------------+----------+-------+-------------+----------------+---------------+--------------
<lalo> (0 registros)
<daf> lalo: hurrah!
<lalo> hmm. canonical.database is in launchpad, so technically I can commit
<lalo> not very sure how to proceed in this case :-/
<lalo> who is the right person to poke about the bugzilla component?
* lalo decides the list is it :-P
<daf> Steve or Dave can do it
<lalo> then the list is it indeed
<debonzi> SteveA, Hi
<debonzi> spiv_, ping
<debonzi> spiv_, I saw that some links in sourcepackage still broken.. I'm gonna to fix it tonight I sent the changes to rocketfuel tomorrow morning.. see u
<debonzi> s/I sent/and send
* debonzi go dinner
<kiko> jblack_, you missed him again :-(
<jblack_> no I didn't.
<jblack_> that's why he disapeared for awhile right after he came back. I hooked 'em
<kiko> ah.
<kiko> did you fix it? :)
* jblack_ grins
* lalo is off for the night - be back in a few hours
<jblack_> lol
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<lulu> Hi guys - anyone know how the Rosetta logo came about? Who made it? and is it from clip art?
<carlos> morning
<lulu> hi carlos
<lulu> carlos: the Rosetta server is down - do you know how to fix it?
<carlos> no, sorry. I don't have access to it
<carlos> daf is the only one with an account in that server and perhaps lalo, but I'm not sure
<lulu> I am sure spiv and Stu also have.
<lulu> spiv: u around?
<spiv_> lulu: Just woke up :)
<lulu> morning hon! sleep well?
<lulu> spiv: would u mind checking the rosetta server mate - it's down and I'd like it available if at all possible. thanks in advance :o)
<spiv_> I don't think I have an account on it.
<spiv_> I just tried, and I don't seem to :/
<spiv_> lulu: I always sleep well, it's the waking up that's the problem ;)
<lulu> mmm - this isn't good - we need to have more than one person who can kickstart it when down....can't rely on only one person. All launchpad team leaders should have access. I'll chat to Stevo.
<lulu> spiv: :o)
<lulu> SteveA: ping
<lulu> daf: ping
<lulu> Carlos: how are your graphs looking?
<sabdfl> meeting in 60 mins right?
<carlos> lulu: the graphs are in place, waiting for the changes from Limi
<carlos> sabdfl: yes
<lulu> carlos: what changes are required from limi?
<carlos> lulu: png and css changes
<carlos> we are using still my images
<lulu> carlos: ok. I'll add that to the to do list. Anything else you need from limi next week on Rosetta?
<carlos> lulu: he should do a global review of all UI, It's the bug #1934
<carlos> https://bugzilla.warthogs.hbd.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1934
<carlos> https://bugzilla.warthogs.hbd.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1934
<lulu> carlos: ok - does he have an account on Bugzilla?
<carlos> yes
<lulu> carlos: good - thank you.
<lulu> carlos: as the server is down - I can't see if the warty applications have been added to the home page of Rosetta.
<lulu> have they?
<carlos> lulu: limi added some code to the templates
<carlos> but it's not done
<carlos> finised
<carlos> grrr
<carlos> finished
<carlos> wait I will take a screenshot of my local installation
<lulu> does that need limi, or can you guys just hard code the links?
<carlos> If that's the final UI it will have, we don't need limi
<carlos> https://bugzilla.warthogs.hbd.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1932
<carlos> that's the bug report related with that feature
<carlos> lulu: and this is the metabug https://bugzilla.warthogs.hbd.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1915 that list all pending things for the Alpha release
<carlos> any bug report you add should block that one
<carlos> that way we are sure we don't forget anything
* lulu just creating a bugzilla account...
<carlos> lulu: http://gollum.pemas.net/~carlos/Screenshot-Rosetta.png
<carlos> that's the main page now
<lulu> ok - the translatable packages in Ubuntu - do we have all of those in the database?
<lulu> if not, we need to get them in, with the correct title, descriptions and package names.
<lulu> i haven't looked at the bug, but is inputting the data part of it?
<carlos> lulu: we are creating the scripts to do it
<lulu> carlos: who is? and when will they be done?
<carlos> and we need to talk with arch people to fetch the projects from the arch repository
<lulu> ok - who's responsible for this task?
<carlos> https://bugzilla.warthogs.hbd.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1931
<carlos> I'm creating the script to create persons into launchpad
<carlos> so I suppose I will create also that script
<lulu> carlos: it's assigned to Daf I see....depends on how many bugs you have, Daf has, Lalo has.....and if he needs to delegate it to you.
<lulu> how many rosetta bugs do we have outstanding?
<carlos> lulu: all bug reports are assigned by default to Daf
<carlos> as soon as we are free, we pick any bug with the NEW tag and change the assgned field
<lulu> ok - if you want to take it on, then great. we go live next week.....
<carlos> lulu: https://bugzilla.warthogs.hbd.com/bugzilla/showdependencygraph.cgi?id=1915
<carlos> there you will see the status with a graph
<carlos> the green ones are the open ones, the grey ones are fixed already
<lulu> ok - lots to do....I'll let you get on with it Carlos...hope Daf wakes up soon.
<carlos> lulu: ok, but don't worry, some bugs are trivial to fix
<lulu> carlos:then lets get them done....running out of time! :o(
<daf> hi
<carlos> daf: morning
<lulu> daf:hiya
<lulu> daf: i tried to call u this morning. jane wants to know where the rosetta logo came from - did u design it?
<daf> lulu: hmm, I think my phone was downstairs
<daf> lulu: I went to bed at 7am, so I might not have heard it annyhow :)
<daf> lulu: yes, I designed the logo
<lulu> daf: cool - did u use clipart?
<daf> lulu: nope
<lulu> daf: drew it?
<daf> yes
<lulu> daf: good - will you get in touch with Jane then - she sent an email to Warthogs. cheers!
<lulu> daf: why bed so late/early?
<daf> lulu: it happens to my sleep patterns... I was fixing bugs :)
<daf> lulu: right, hadn't read my mail yet today -- I'll reply now
<lulu> daf: good to hear u fixing bugs :o) we have 4 days to go, so we need to squash as many as possible asap. hows; the schedule looking today?
<lulu> daf: thanks :o)
<carlos> daf: wow... no more plural forms missing error :-P
<daf> carlos: yeah, I finally got around to fixing it
<carlos> daf: the po traversal is working now.
<daf> oh, great!
<carlos> when we don't have a pofile, I suppose we could export the .pot file, right?
<carlos> it fails now
<daf> hmm
<carlos> or show only a message?
<daf> what's the URL?
<carlos> it's not yet at rocketfuel
<carlos> but for instance:
<carlos> http://localhost:8085/++skin++Debug/rosetta/projects/gnome/evolution/evolution-2.0/cy/po
<daf> I'm not sure which is best
<carlos> that will fail because we don't have the cy pofile (yet)
<daf> by the way: what do you think on having the PO file as an attachment vs. having it inline?
<carlos> hmm, in fact, http://localhost:8085/++skin++Debug/rosetta/projects/gnome/evolution/evolution-2.0/cy also fails so we should fix it also
<carlos> daf: GTP people prefers them as inline
<carlos> like you
<daf> what's your opinion?
<carlos> daf: that's an easy change
<carlos> I think that you should download it and open with an editor
<carlos> but it's long ago since my last active translation, so perhaps I don't have in mind the real user case
<daf> I'm not 100% sure about -- I prefer inline myself, but I don't know what other people like
<carlos> I suppose we will know it with the alpha :-)
<daf> :)
<daf> carlos: once you have finished the traversal, do you have other things to work on?
<carlos> Choose any bug from the list of pending things
<SteveA> hi folks.  Launchpad meeting here in 1 minute!
<carlos> SteveA: hi
<carlos> daf: I was thinking on implement the project/product/resource creation script
<carlos> #1931
<sabdfl> hi all
<lulu> hiya!
<spiv> cprov: Hello :)
<cprov> spiv: hi 
<spiv> Just in time :)
<daf> hi mark
<carlos> hi * 
<SteveA> cprov, debonzi: hi.  Can kiko make it to this meeting?
<cprov> SteveA: of course, just one minute more :)
<SteveA> ok, thanks
<debonzi> SteveA, Hi
<sabdfl> ok, should we get going?
<kiko> by me, bombs away
<SteveA> let's
<sabdfl> stevea, could you set the stage, then let's have each team describe status and issues
<sabdfl> go ahead steve
<SteveA> what I'd like to do today is to talk with each team about exactly what the current short-term and medium-term goals for their part of launchpad is
<SteveA> and how they are progressing towards those goals
<SteveA> what things are standing in the way of progres
<SteveA> s
<SteveA> Can we start with the soyuz team?
<SteveA> I spoke with kiko yesterday about how that is going
<spiv> Ok.
<SteveA> and we're having a meeting on monday to go through the system, as checked in
<SteveA> and go through all of the soyuz functionality
<SteveA> but first,
<SteveA> what are the current short-term and medium-term goals of the soyuz project?
<kiko> well
<kiko> (short-term meaning pre-sprint, I assume)
<kiko> we've got the functionality we discussed at the oxford hackathon laid down
<kiko> and we have been producing mockups and implementing them
<sabdfl> how are we doing on the db-to-html mapping?
<kiko> something like fire and motion
<sabdfl> fire and motion?
<kiko> all pages are intended to be db-backed, and there are very few things left that are stubbed out
<sabdfl> ok, is this accessible on rosetta.warthogs.hbd.com yet?
<SteveA> kiko: am I right in recalling that you think that all will be DB-backed by the meeting on monday?
<daf> https://rosetta.warthogs.hbd.com/soyuz
<kiko> most of the stubbed out information remaining is stuff that hasn't been really discussed or doesn't have db backage yet.
<kiko> SteveA, well, certainly not *all* of the content in the pages, but all the content which can be displayed from the database (given our existing database infrastructure)
<SteveA> ok
<kiko> if you look at the checklist and at the pages you'll see there's not a lot left.
<SteveA> so, on monday, I'd like to go through each relevant database entity, and we'll look at the page(s) that present it
<sabdfl> in that case well done
<kiko> as I said yesterday, by the middle of next week, unless we have a trusted domain expert that can guide us into moving the database forward together with the pages, we'd like to be assigned some extra work.
<SteveA> kiko: so, there are some changes to the database that you want to discuss.  Can these be discussed at the sprint?
<kiko> they can, but that leaves us with ~ 10 days that could be invested somewhere that needed it.
<SteveA> sabdfl: how about I get at least one of them to help me with infrastructure?
<sabdfl> good idea
<kiko> now
<SteveA> (actually, kiko suggested it in our meeting yesterday)
<SteveA> (thanks kiko)
<sabdfl> we need a consolidation / cleanup process that spans the infrastructure
<kiko> (y/w)
<SteveA> I can lead that, but I don't have time to execute it all
<kiko> now, medium and long-term we are *really* in need of someone to guide us more closely
<sabdfl> steve, can you map out the areas that need that work for me this afternoon, then I can give the go-ahead on async time for that
<SteveA> you mean, a package maintainer, a user of souyz
<kiko> well, a soyuz user, yes, but someone with a reasonable vision of how everything should fit together and time to spend with us
<SteveA> sabdfl: I can send you a short bullet-pointed list.  Will that be enough?  I already have a lot of work planned for this afternoon.
<sabdfl> yes, that's fine
<kiko> so far we've been winging it based on what we know about distributions and what we discussed at oxford, but we're running low of fuel already
<SteveA> sabdfl: ok, willdo
<sabdfl> kiko: we can cover a lot of ground during the sprint
<sabdfl> daf: rosetta passwd?
<kiko> sabdfl: great, but we would appreciate someone after that that could be in close contact, do you think we can arrange someone with the cycles for that?
<daf> sabdfl: wartyhoarygrumpy, I think
<spiv> kiko: I should be more available from now on.  The US leg of my travelling was more disruptive than I'd anticipated.
<SteveA> spiv: even so, you're not a domain expert.  You don't know what a package maintainer needds.
<kiko> spiv, problem is we need someone who really can make decisions based on domain knowledge
<sabdfl> that did the trick, thanks
<spiv> Good point.
<SteveA> kiko: the immediate goal is presenting what's in the database
<kiko> that's already in its final steps
<SteveA> we'll look over progress towards that on monday
<sabdfl> elmo and kinnison will get going on archive management stuff at high speed
<kiko> soyuz team needs a more distant horizon to work with from there on :-)
<sabdfl> as soon as we are using their new code for archive management we can dogfood ubuntu, which will mean LOTS of users
<SteveA> kiko: are there any database changes that you need?
<sabdfl> i believe our db is already a nice superset of the existing db management stuff, so that should go quickly
<kiko> SteveA, there are some, yes. 
<SteveA> kiko: is there a wiki page, or something like that, listing them?
<SteveA> sabdfl: when will elmo and kinnison start that?
<cprov> daf: is https://rosetta../ working ? I'm just getting blank pages 
<SteveA> daf: same here
<daf> oh, me too
<daf> it was working a minute ago
<sabdfl> SteveA: at the sprint
<kiko> SteveA, not summarizing DB changes by themselves, we have a checklist, some wiki bullet items and a couple of email requests. 
<SteveA> great.
<kiko> SteveA, we'll summarize them.
<SteveA> kiko: ok, we can go through those on monday too.
<daf> SteveA: I'm getting some interesting Zope errors on the server
<SteveA> daf: let's look at it after this meeting
<kiko> sure.
<SteveA> is that everything for soyuz so far?
<sabdfl> i have a question
<sabdfl> what sort of sample data are you guys using?
<spiv> Completely hand-crafted.
<daf> SteveA: hmm, restarting the server made it go away -- perhaps it was demo-bogons
<SteveA> daf: keep the logs
<spiv> It would be good to start basing it on actual real data.
<SteveA> is there anything stopping us from using real data?
<kiko> SteveA, well.. is there real data?
<daf> SteveA: logs are always kept
<spiv> Do we already have tools for extracting metadata from deb packages, and that sort of thing?
<SteveA> daf: mail the relevant ones to me please
<spiv> I'd guess sourcerer has some of this stuff.
<kiko> the sample data is built from what we *think* would be reasonable
<kiko> but you have to realize that some of the stuff -- release team, for instance -- doesn't exist anywhere that I know of
<kiko> the package side of things could be extracted from ubuntu debs, definitely
<SteveA> so, a good task starting next week is to get real sample data in there, augmented with made up data where needed
<kiko> maybe that's a task for 50% of the soyuz team post-next-week.
<kiko> yeah, agreement
<spiv> Yep.
<sabdfl> i'm trying to figure out if we can get the system to monitor our archive and automatically try to represent the data in there
<sabdfl> elmo: listening in?
<SteveA> do you mean monitor, as in "real time", or as in "let's import/sync with the archive from time to time" ?
<kiko> that would be awesome, but does keybuk's team have the tools up to speed to give us this data?
<sabdfl> sync from time to time
<SteveA> phew
<debonzi> daf, could you please merge into rosetta.warthogs.hdb.com the fix I've sent to rocketfuel
<sabdfl> there's a database used to manage the existing archive, it's part of a set of tools called "katie" that james mostly wrote for debian
<elmo> sabdfl: yeah
<daf> debonzi: sure
<debonzi> daf, thanks
<sabdfl> and james and daniel (silverstone) will write a new set for us
<daf> debonzi: hmm, it says that everything is up to date
<sabdfl> elmo, is the katie db for auckland on auckland?
<elmo> no, it's on jackass - auckland is the public mirror machine, jackass is the private master archive server
<debonzi> daf, realy? I've sent a fix for sourcepackage pages some minutes ago.
<sabdfl> do you think you could send a dump of the db to kiko and me?
<kiko> ah, killer
<daf> debonzi: is the merge complete yet?
<spiv> daf: Yep.
<daf> yeah, I see it
<debonzi> daf, I think so
<debonzi> daf, nice :)
<elmo> sabdfl: it's 2.5Mb compressed - shall I make it available via http and send you the URL ?
<sabdfl> sure
<daf> debonzi: is it working?
<sabdfl> thanks elmo
<daf> hmm, no it's broken again
<debonzi> daf, I've got black page
<debonzi> s/black/blank
<kiko> elmo, url is good.
<daf> last page accessed before it broke was /soyuz/distros/ubuntu/src/warty
<daf> same error as before
<SteveA> daf: I see what the problem is.
<cprov> daf: It was me :) something is broken on SQLObject
<SteveA> Anything more for soyuz?
<daf> cprov: oops :)
<SteveA> Let's move on.
<SteveA> Rosetta.
<SteveA> daf: the immediate goals for rosetta, 
<cprov> spiv: can we talk on #soyuz ?
<SteveA> and how are things progressing towards it
<daf> immediate goal: fix all bugs which prevent the alpha release
<sabdfl> daf: can you give me a status on rosetta first please?
<daf> you can see these here:
<daf> https://bugzilla.warthogs.hbd.com/bugzilla/showdependencygraph.cgi?id=1915
<spiv> cprov: Ok.
<daf> some of those have been fixed, but are waiting on merges to rocketfuel
<SteveA> daf: the wiki page that describes what "alpha release" means?
<daf> SteveA: good idea
<daf> https://www.warthogs.hbd.com/RosettaAlpha describes our goals for the alpha release
<elmo> kiko/sabdfl: sent
<kiko> thanks james
<daf> once we have our alpha-critical bugs fixed, we'll have real projects imported into a test server which we'll make available to our testers
<SteveA> we'll make the test server available as rosetta.ubuntulinux.org
<daf> then, we'll fix any bugs we or our testers find as well as adding functionality for our beta release
<SteveA> daf: the other day, we were discussing the "import POT/PO -> alter through the web -> export POT/PO" cycle
<daf> SteveA: yep
<SteveA> where does that stand now?
<daf> it has less bugs in it than it did the other day
<carlos> daf: Could we add the beta release date to the wiki?
<SteveA> what can I do with it?
<daf> you can do all of those things
<SteveA> I can take a POT file and PO file for ProjectX, and use a script to import it (if I have access to the DB)
<SteveA> I can take a POT file and a PO file for ProjectX, and upload it to a web form
<SteveA> (good so far?)
<daf> you can import via a script
<daf> web upload is not done yet
<SteveA> no web form yet?
<SteveA> anything holding that up?
<daf> that's bug #1919
<daf> I might need some hand-holding for implementing it, but other than that, there's nothing stopping it
<SteveA> When can we do it?
<daf> I can do it today
<SteveA> You need some help with the HTML form / Zope 3 aspect of it?
<daf> exactly
<daf> I'll start working on it and ask you for help when I get stuck
<SteveA> That is very straightforward.  Let's do it at 1500 UTC.
<daf> sure
<SteveA> we'll start with the zope3 aspect, get that out of the way, and write a wiki page on how it works
<sabdfl> so typical process might be:
<sabdfl>  - > upload a POT
<sabdfl>  - > upload a PO
<sabdfl>  - > add some translations
<sabdfl>  - > fetch a better PO containing translations
<sabdfl> right?
<daf> exactly
<sabdfl> then:
<daf> of course, you need to have the project / product / template set up first
<sabdfl>  - > upload a new POT
<sabdfl>  - > add some translations for the new strings
<sabdfl>  -> fetch a better PO
<sabdfl> right?
<carlos> sabdfl: yes
<SteveA> I want to check the "ready or not" status of the rest of the process.
<sabdfl> and finally:
<sabdfl>  - > upload a new PO that has additional translations
<sabdfl>  - > add some more translations through the web
<sabdfl>  - > fetch an even *better* PO
<sabdfl> right?
<carlos> yes
<daf> yep
<carlos> daf: we need a policy about who will be able to upload .po/.pot files from the web...
<daf> and, of course, each step might be carried out by one person or different people
<sabdfl> but initially this can all work on trust
<sabdfl> in a small community
<daf> carlos: yes, this will be a permissions issue -- do you want to file a non-alpha-critical bug for this?
<SteveA> we can say that any person who can log into the system can upload files
<SteveA> that is, any $Person
<daf> sure, initially trust will do fine
<carlos> daf: sure
<SteveA> daf: which of the "->" points from sabdfl are not yet working?
<daf> SteveA: uploading through the web
<SteveA> but, it works with a script
<SteveA> so, just the web front-end on that
<daf> SteveA: also, I'm not sure about "- > upload a new PO that has additional translations" -- we need to test combinations of TTW/import translations
<daf> "not sure about" as in "I'm not 100% confident in it yet"
<SteveA> do you have a set of good test-cases written down?
<SteveA> as in, a list that covers the different kinds of situation
<daf> no -- that would be a good thing to have
<carlos> daf: new bug report, I will fill it
<SteveA> please file a bug to do that
<sabdfl> are there any checks to make sure that the PO file being uploaded matches the POT, and the language is correct?
<SteveA> thanks carlos
<sabdfl> is the language specified inside the PO file, or only in the PO filename?
<carlos> sabdfl: only in the PO Filename
<carlos> sabdfl: no, we don't have such tests
<daf> sabdfl: we don't check against the POT, but we do mark messages in the PO file which are not in the POT as obsolete on import
<sabdfl> is there any "key" that links a PO to a POT?
<daf> none
<sabdfl> ok
<carlos> sabdfl: perhaps we could try to do something with the language mailing list, but I don't think we have time to do it for Alpha release and it will not be robust enough
<SteveA> the po/pot system wasn't really designed with rosetta in mind :)
<sabdfl> true
<daf> so true :)
<sabdfl> ok, the nightmare scenario being someone uploads a PO file to the wrong POT :-)
<daf> yes
<daf> when that happens:
<SteveA> would that look odd, because of a lot of obselete messageS?
<carlos> SteveA: it should not be a problem
<daf>  - either there is no overlap between the intended POT and the uploaded PO, in which case you just get a lot of obsolete messages in the PO file
<lulu> can we do any sort of validation on it before allowing it through?
<daf>  -  or, there is overlap, and you get bogus translations
<carlos> the big problem is when they upload a PO file to the wrong language
<daf> carlos: yeah
<daf> lulu: we could probably have some weak heuristics about "does this PO file look like it belongs to the template/language specified"
<SteveA> there are tools out there that attempt to identify the language of some text
<sabdfl> that sort of thing will blow our translation memory away
<sabdfl> but, let's just make the web pages simple, and trust people not to screw it up
<SteveA> what do you mean by "translation memory" ?
<daf> SteveA: a "translation memory" is a database of existing translations
<daf> SteveA: usually coupled with a mechanism for reusing them
<sabdfl> later on, we will still think that the word "Achtung" is "Attention" in Spanish if someone uploaded a PO file for German to the Spanish language place
<lulu> daf:mmm - perhaps a weak heuristic may be better than nothing. not critical for alpha but later may be good.
<sabdfl> we would ave seen the German translation, and recorded it as spanish
<daf> Rosetta is basically a translation application with a translation memory
<daf> we're not utilising that memory yet, but we will do in the future
<daf> hence the Achtung problem
<sabdfl> and since we flatten the history of sightings (we dont store a record of every sighting each time we review a PO file) we have no easy way to tell which sightings came from the mistaken upload
<SteveA> ok.  file a bug on the achtung problem, so that we have a place to record thoughts about dealing with it.
<daf> will do
<carlos> sabdfl: if we have the po file we could develop a script that removes the wrong strings
<SteveA> sounds like a restore from backup
<daf> carlos: an "anti-import"? :)
<carlos> daf: yes, it will not restore the previous status
<carlos> daf: but will remove the broken translations
<carlos> and I think that will be enough
<daf> yes
<SteveA> this may be an area where we can use the zodb.  it has the capability to store historical data.
<SteveA> anyhow, let's focus on rosetta, and progress towards our immediate goals
<sabdfl> we do store the firstseen date, so we should also be able to eliminate a bunch of sightings on that basis
<sabdfl> anyhow, enough of the achtung problem
<SteveA> any other problems/sticking points with rosetta?
<sabdfl> did you separate out potmsgset from pomsgset?
<daf> sabdfl: not yet
<daf> sabdfl: none that I can think of
<sabdfl> what;s the rationale?
<daf> carlos?
<sabdfl> lalo?
<sabdfl> ok, no rationale :-)
<daf> the rationale is manyfold:
<carlos> well, we need to know the process to import projects/products
<daf> at the moment, we have one table representing two different things
<carlos> when, who and what
* carlos waits until the rationale ends
<daf> this makes implementing those two different things in the SQL code more difficult
<sabdfl> ok, I'm amenable
<SteveA> the "if statements all over the code" problem
<daf> SteveA: exactly
<sabdfl> go for it
<daf> sabdfl: great
<daf> the "none that I can think of" was meant to be directed at Steve -- bloody tab-completion :)
<carlos> :-)
<carlos> then, the only thing we need to know is the data that should be imported into launchpad for alpha release
<carlos> (the only remaining thing)
<SteveA> "the packages in ubuntu that are the most important to get translated"
<carlos> SteveA: that's too abstract :-)
<carlos> we need the list
<carlos> a way to get the code/po/pot files
<SteveA> who knows what packages are in need of translation?
<lulu> is it on ubuntu wiki? under Warty?
<SteveA> in the future, we'd just consult Rosetta, and look at the graphs :-)
<carlos> and how many times/day/week/month we should update our information (.po and .pot files)
<daf> https://bugzilla.warthogs.hbd.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1942 -- accidental imports can cause faulty memory
<SteveA> who can we ask on the warty team, who would know about which packages need most help with translations?
<SteveA> colin watson was doing l10n of the installer
<daf> we can only test things which have already been imported
<lulu> SteveA: we need all the packages don't we? 
<SteveA> we can ask for things to be imported, if it is important to get help with their translations
<daf> so I suggest we choose from a list of what's been imported when we're ready to do it, as imports are still going on
<carlos> SteveA: we don't need the list of packages with translations, with a list of packages is enough, we can try to discover the ones with translations to import into rosetta
<daf> I don't think we should dwell on this too much now
<SteveA> lulu: we need to prioritize.
<sabdfl> let's start with smaller applications, where we have a good relationship with upstream
<lulu> SteveA: yes I agree - ok - but it would be a good test to provide the correct test data we need to cover any Warty problems we may have...
<SteveA> we'll get there
<lulu> sabdfl: who will chose the apps?
<lulu> choose
<SteveA> how about a bug that says "come up with the first 10 apps to import" ?
<daf> SteveA: sounds good
<SteveA> those 10 can be listed in the bug comments
<sabdfl> lulu: daf
<sabdfl> warty team can also make nominations of course
<sabdfl> like warty installer :-)
<lulu> sabdfl:ok
<SteveA> Are we done talking about rosetta for now?
<sabdfl> ok let's move on
<SteveA> Malone.
<SteveA> What is the current immediate goal for malone?
<SteveA> I was talking with mdz about what's needed to start using malone for ubuntu, sometime between warty and hoary
<SteveA> he suggested that it would be a good idea for us to start using malone for launchpad bug tracking, 
<SteveA> so that we'll know it is somewhat solid in real use, before starting to use it with ubuntu
<sabdfl> fair enough
<carlos> SteveA: makes sense
<SteveA> one feature needed for using it for launchpad is also needed for using it with ubuntu: assigning someone to fix a bug in a source package.
<sabdfl> we can make launchpad a project, with products rosetta, soyuz and malone, and file bugs in it
<SteveA> the ubuntu team use this all the time in their bugzilla.  it is currently absent from the RSD.
<sabdfl> the difference being assignments to product vs assignments to sourcepackage, as in the distro view
<SteveA> I've asked matt to get someone from his team to make a quick review of the RSD, and say whether anything is missing from it that they would need to use it with ubuntu
<sabdfl> but quite possibly getting it right for ourselves makes the distroview easier
<SteveA> for using it with launchpad, we may want to have a "this is a secret / private" project flag.
<SteveA> I'm not sure about that, though.
<SteveA> if we use it for launchpad, would we want it to be publicly visible?
<SteveA> there are some advantages to working in the fishbowl :-)
<SteveA> but, there are commercial aspects too, perhaps
<sabdfl> let's work on the same instance that the rosetta alpha will use
<sabdfl> then when we have it working, we can copy the data over to emperor and not lose any bugs
<sabdfl> and by then we'll have some ability to indicate private projects
<SteveA> ok.  Malone needs a few extra things before we can use it for launchpad, even on a semi-private server.
<SteveA> I've noticed the rosetta team making good use of bugzilla's dependency tracking features
<SteveA> we'll need mail-out of bugs
<SteveA> stuart can start working on these when he gets back.  any news about andrew v. ?
<SteveA> or, maybe we can cover that later on the phone
<sabdfl> later
<SteveA> So, we have the following milestones for Malone:
<SteveA>     - implement features needed for use with launchpad
<SteveA>     - dogfood with launchpad on rosetta server
<SteveA>     - implement "private project" features
<SteveA>     - implement features for ubuntu
<SteveA>     - export data to emperor, and start using with ubuntu
<sabdfl> i still need to catch up with him
<sabdfl> ok
<sabdfl> is that a wrap?
<SteveA> Anything else we need to talk about for malone?
<SteveA> going, going...
<SteveA> gone.
<SteveA> That's it.  Thanks for having the meeting, everyone.
<sabdfl> thanks guys
<SteveA> We'll have another (probably shorter) one next week.
<sabdfl> let's meet weekly from here onwards, steve please coordinate
<SteveA> I'll mail some notes on this meeting to the list later today, with any Actions not covered by bugs that have been filed in the course of the meeting.
<kiko> sounds good
<sabdfl> SteveA, daf, whats the status on having a single Project object for Rosetta and Soyuz and Malone...?
<lulu> thanks :o)
<lulu> SteveA:  Steve - please can u chat to James on McQuarie setup if not done already. Arch stuff.
<carlos> ok
<SteveA> I have that in my tree.  I need to sync with current changes, and get it checked in, and tested.
<SteveA> lulu: yes, will do
<lulu> cheers mate :o)
<sabdfl> lulu: we close to having a plone setup i can see?
<sabdfl> lulu: can i call you to discuss now?
<lulu> sabdfl: - we've had problems but Upfront are finalising them today.
<lulu> sure
<lulu> sabdfl: elmo and Upfront are co-ordinating as we speak
<sabdfl> ok
<carlos> lunch time, see you later!
<kiko> later guys
<cprov> later 
<kiko> daf, can you kick rosetta.wh for me?
<kiko> it's dead again.
<daf> kiko: there's a bug
<spiv> daf: Obviously ;)
<daf> ...which won't be fixed by restarting the server
<daf> which actually works 99% of the time
<spiv> Any idea what it is?
<daf> SteveA has an idea
<lulu> SteveA: can we give all team leaders an account on Rosetta so they don't have to rely/disturb/cajole Daf every time. Each team needs to have access if possible.
<kiko> daf, if restarting the server won't fix things, what will?
<daf> kiko: fixing the bug that breaks the server
<daf> SteveA: any idea on the timescale?
<kiko> daf, but restarting the server would at least allow me to browse it :)
<daf> kiko: ok, but don't say I didn't warn you if it breaks again :)
<kiko> I'm not holding it against you, just fix the #@!#@!#! thing <wink>
<SteveA> daf: I know what the *immediate* problem is.
<daf> kiko: ok, done
<SteveA> but we have a greater problem.  apache on that server is doing basic auth to protect the server from inquisitive eyes.
<daf> SteveA: you know the symptom, but not the cause?
<SteveA> The server now does basic auth itself.
<daf> ah, oops
<SteveA> We need to stop apache doing basic auth, I think.
<daf> what about the inquisitive eyes?
<daf> security through obscurity?
<SteveA> do we have much to hide?
<SteveA> at this point, probably not
<SteveA> there's nothing important in the database behind that rosetta
<daf> true
<SteveA> there's no TTW programming stuff in Zope
<daf> SteveA: I'm going to have lunch -- we're meeting in 23 minutes, right?
<SteveA> would you like a tad longer for lunch?
<daf> a tad longer, yes
<SteveA> we could meet in 50 minutes instead
<daf> sounds good
<daf> 15:30 UTC?
<SteveA> ok.  that's 1830 my time, 1630 yours 1530 universal
<daf> sorted, see you later
<SteveA> ok
<SteveA> lulu: I'm happy for team leaders to have accounts on Rosetta.  I'll mail admins.
<lulu> thanks Stevo :o)
<SteveA> kiko, debonzi, cprov, spiv: who out of you needs an account on rosetta?
<kiko> cprov.
<daf> SteveA: I suggest the following:
<cprov> putz
<daf> we have a launchpad user/group
<daf> which has a running screen session
<daf> anybody who needs access is in the launchpad group
<daf> and has access to the screen session
<daf> so you can easily attach to the session and examine the server output
<daf> most server fixes I'm doing consist of the following
<daf> ssh -t rosetta screen -x
<daf> Control-C
<daf> up
<daf> enter
<daf> Control-]  d
<daf> or variations on that theme
<SteveA> daf: go and eat! :-)
<daf> eating is blocking on food cooking :-)
<lalo> hello
<lulu> lalo: hi - I'm sending you an email with what's been discussed today - so you're in the loop.
<lulu> lalo: done
<lalo> thanks
<lulu> lalo: no problem - some important stuff discussed.
<lalo> augh. stupid, stupid.
<lalo> /me bangs head against wall
<carlos> lalo: ?
<lalo> I applied timezones in the wrong direction again :-/ and registered in my brain that we had a meeting in the middle of the afternoon, when it was instead in the early morning
<carlos> upps
<SteveA> daf: it is time!
<daf> SteveA: it is
<SteveA> let's start by making a page that you can upload something to
<SteveA> let's just do this as a view on /rosetta/
<SteveA> once we have that so that it is accepting uploads, you can remove that page, and apply the same thing to PO/POT files
<daf> ok
<SteveA> shall we do this with screen again?
<daf> sure
<SteveA> then I can see what you're coding etc.
<daf> I think I've fixed the routing problems
<SteveA> what host and port shall I use?
<daf> you should be able to "ssh -t stevea@earthsea.homdns.org screen -x daf/"
<SteveA> homdns?
<daf> homedns
<SteveA>  $ telnet 80.69.60.252 22
<SteveA> Trying 80.69.60.252...
<SteveA> router still stopping ssh ?
<daf> hmm, it was working earlier
<daf> oh, hmm
<daf> that should be 82.69.60.252
<SteveA> I'm in
* daf fixes that DNS record
<daf> great!
<daf> okay, I'm just writing the template in the other screen window
<SteveA> how do I get there?
<daf> escape key + 0
<daf> escape key twice also switches between windows
<SteveA> hmm
<SteveA> not really
<daf> I can't remember if the escape key is shared or not
<daf> the default is Control-a, but I prefer Control-] 
<SteveA> hm
<SteveA> nothing happening
<SteveA> can you boot me out?
<SteveA> I'll try connecting again, with an explicit escape set in screen perhaps
<SteveA> daf?
<SteveA> oh, back in jabber
<lulu> SteveA: is jabber logged?
<SteveA> not publicly
<lulu> are there discussions on Ubuntu etc that should be logged for our records?
<daf> lulu: we're only using Jabber for one-to-one conversations, as far as I know
<SteveA> I'm pair-programming with daf just now, so I'll have to talk about this later.
<lulu> daf: cool  just checking so we don't lose valuable input from our great team.
* lalo done with the meeting log
<daf> lulu: sure :-)
<lulu> daf: good thanks.
<lalo> daf, SteveA: I got no feedback on #1935. I'm tempted to simply submit the merge, as it's blocking some other stuff.
<carlos> SteveA: I need to execute a unix command (msgfmt) to export .mo files and I need to use stdin and stdout to send the pofile (text data) to that command and get back the .mo file (binary data) to serve it from launchpad. I'm thinking on using the popen2 module. Is that ok?
<SteveA> carlos: you mean the new one, with python 2.4 ?
<SteveA> or, the popen2 call in python 2.3 (and earlier) ?
<lalo> daf: and, would you like me to work on something in particular or can I just pick one at random?
<carlos> the later one
<SteveA> lalo: can you summarize what the fix is?
<carlos> SteveA: I don't think I'm using python 2.4 at this moment
<carlos> From the python manual: 6.8 popen2 -- Subprocesses with accessible I/O streams
<daf> lalo: I think a sensible policy is that any bugs which are NEW (as opposed to ASSIGNED) are up for grabs
<lalo> SteveA: don't use lazyUpdate when running zopeless
<daf> lalo: and hence if you're working on something, make it assigned to you
<SteveA> carlos: I suggest using popen3
<SteveA> so you get the error stream
<lalo> daf: yes :-) what I meant is, to ask you whether you have a specific one in mind you'd like me to poke
<SteveA> lalo: sounds good. 
<daf> lalo: sorry, I have a habit of answering questions people didn't ask
<daf> lalo: I don't have anything specific in mind
<lalo> ok
<carlos> SteveA: ok, If I get an error I send that stream as the message, right?
<SteveA> error output should go to that stream
<carlos> I mean, to launchpad exception
<daf> #1938 and #1939 are interesting
<SteveA> daf and I need to focus on our pair programming now
<carlos> ok
<lalo> ok
* lalo gets at it
* daf assigned #1919 to himself
* lalo wonders why the heck you can't reassign and accept in one operation
<lulu> lalo: that would be good to keep in mind for malone - could you add it to the wiki - wish list for Malone?
<lalo> ok
<lulu> lalo: thanks so we don't forget it.
<lalo> done
<lulu> lalo: thanks hon :o) 4 days to Rosetta Alpha....
<lalo> dateLastActive is not updated when you translate from the web?
<daf> file a bug :)
<lalo> that's not a bug, it's a question :-) I'm not sure it's supposed to
<lalo> due to the whole 42 conversations about active/current/inPofile/etc
<daf> lalo: care to write a document describing the various sates of message sets, sightings, etc?
<lalo> ok
<lalo> not sure I have all information I need :-) but I'll try
<daf> thanks
<lalo> daf: the timestamp is updated, in case you wonder
<daf> did I add a comment next to that saying something like "XXX: Should we update this always?"
<daf> word for the day: prosopography
<lalo> no
<daf> must have been something else then :)
<daf> hmm, they shuoldn't be getting touched unless the translation has actually changed
<lalo> which we have no easy way of knowing
<lalo> short of comparing the strings, I suppose
<daf> which is what we do :)
<lalo> do we really? I don't see the code to do this
<daf> browser.py
<lalo> that's where I'm looking
<lalo> yet, I would be a bit worried if we did, too - string comparison is inefficient by nature
<daf> ?!
<daf> it's only O(n), and n isn't very big
<carlos> daf: we have "datefirstseen" and "datelastactive"
<daf> I'd be far more concerned about the database access needed to get the old translations for comparing with
<lalo> ah, found it
<carlos> I think the datelastactive is updated every time we import a .po file with that translation
<carlos> we should do the same everytime someone submits the translation without any change
<daf> "is" or "should be"?
<carlos> hmm "should be" :-)
<daf> :)
<daf> what about if somebody loads a page with 5 translations, updates one, and then submits?
<kiko> debonzi!
<daf> the 4 translations they didn't even look at get updated
<daf> which doesn't seem right to me
<daf> at the moment, I think the timestamp is only updated when the translation is changed
<lalo> yes, that was exactly my point
<debonzi> kiko, 
<carlos> daf: but then, the .po ones will have always preference from the website ones
<lalo> the fact that a translation is submitted doesn't mean the user actually even looked at it :-)
<carlos> daf: I was sharing that idea until 10 minutes ago :-)
<carlos> lalo: or perhaps he agree that it's the correct translation
<daf> carlos: they're not "website ones" because they're only in the form because they came from the PO file
<carlos> daf: or from previous website editions
<daf> yes, exactly
<carlos> well, I suppose it's not a problem until we implement a way to suggest translations from the UI
<lalo> hmnf
<lalo> carlos: can't reproduce 1939
* lalo ponders the fine art of gaim plug-in development
<carlos> lalo: if you translate the evolution's pot
<daf> carlos: I've noticed something else
<carlos> lalo: and then export it... you should see the problem
<lalo> carlos: I find it rather puzzling that your msgstr[0]  and msgstr[1]  are almost identical (wrt whitespace), but yet [0]  was modified and [1]  wasn't
<carlos> lalo: go to the page where that string is and add a new translation (but don't touch that msgset)
<daf> carlos: there are spaces missing from the Spanish translations on the input fields
<lalo> some bitrot seems to be involved :-P
<daf> carlos: do you see it?
<carlos> lalo: I think it's a website bug more than a po handling one. I think the problem comes with the addtion of the return char graph
<carlos> daf: I know there are missing spaces
<carlos> daf: because I translated them and I didn't saw them in the english text
<lalo> yet, how come [1]  is not touched?
<carlos> so I did not added them
<carlos> :-)
<daf> :D
<daf> so, not a Rosetta bug? :)
<carlos> lalo: I don't know, the code should tell you it :-)
<carlos> daf: yes, it's a bug, a UI bug
<carlos> daf: If I don't see the spaces, I cannot add them to my translations 
<carlos> :-)
<daf> oh, I fixed that one
<daf> I was worried that the translations in the database had spaces, but that they were not being included in the text fields properly
<daf> did you see my fix for the spaces?
<carlos> daf: one moment...
<carlos> daf: yes, I see it
<carlos> daf: it's ok, the only problem I have now is that I see them too small (included the "return" char)
<daf> hmm
<carlos> first, I thought that was ... instead of a special graph
<daf> does making your font bigger help?
<carlos> hmm, I need to do it too big to see it correctly
<daf> any suggestions?
<carlos> daf: I did a user test with my sister
<daf> great, how did it go?
<carlos> daf: Ctr++ two times until she was able to see it
<carlos> she thought it was ..
<daf> hmm
<daf> I'm not sure if there's a better way to show spaces
<carlos> Is there any way to increase the size?
<daf> of the font size in general, or of that particular glyph?
<daf> we could increate the size for messageIDs only
<daf> that would be a simple CSS fix
<carlos> for that particular glyph
<carlos> my sister says that the "enter" glyph is easy to detect without any change
<daf> we could probably do <span class="openBoxes"></span>
<carlos> in fact I did not notice it but the space glyph is the one used with the movile phones to represent the space, so it's the correct char :-P
<daf> .openBoxes { font-size: 120% }
<daf> heh, I hadn't thought of that
<daf> which font are you using, by the way?
<carlos> daf: my sister told me that, I didn't saw it :-P
<daf> ah, ok
<carlos> daf: sans-serif
<carlos> the default one from epiphany
<lalo> ugh. can we sort the languages list in the preferences form by name rather than code?
<daf> ok
<daf> lalo: I don't see why not
* lalo registers himself as translator for lojban
<carlos> lalo: sure
<lalo> daf: I'll file a low-pri bug
<daf> lalo: :D
<daf> lalo: do you speak lojban?
<carlos> lalo: the languages with the country code don't work yet, I just remember a bug report I need to fill :-)
<daf> where has limi been of late?
<lalo> daf: speak, no, but I can read it (and translate into it) with some effort
<carlos> daf: I don't understand your question about limi...
<lalo> dude, I can't for the life of me find Spanish in this widget :-P perhaps normal priority
<daf> lalo: cool!
<carlos> lalo: hmm, seems like the #1939 is fixed,
<daf> carlos: sorry, "of late" is another way of saying "recently" in English
<carlos> lalo: is at the end of the list
<carlos> daf: hes out for holidays
<daf> oh, right, I see
<lalo> carlos: yay for our magic bug-fixing fairies
<daf> when is he back?
<carlos> lalo: :-)
<carlos> daf: on Monday
<daf> ah, that's good
* daf has bugs for limi
<carlos> daf: fill them with bugzilla, he has an account :-)
<lulu> daf: limi should be back on Monday giving 150%. We are hoping he will be in london, but this is unconfirmed as yet.
<lulu> if there is anything you guys can handle on your own, please do so, as he's got lots of work to do.
<daf> lulu: it's nothing high-priority, just some small fixes that hopefully won't take up much of his time
* lalo ponders making a fresh bowl of mate
<lulu> daf: ok - make sure all the bugs are in bugzilla and he can finish high priority first, then get to those.
<daf> lulu: you were really anxious to get hold of me this morning, weren't you? :)
<lulu> daf: yup - didn't realise you went to bed at 7am.
<daf> lulu: was the logo thing a big deal?
<lulu> it's easier to have pepes online when you expect them to be!
<lulu> daf: Jane wanted to know urgently before speaking to the design agency, but no worries.
<daf> ah, I see
<lulu> daf: are these your regular hours now?
<lulu> daf: not 7am, but working more in the evenings rather than mornings?
<daf> I was just wondering that
<daf> I think the meeting at 12:00UTC today may have changed things :)
<carlos> daf, lalo: which one is the easier way to get the lenght of a file object? with seek + tell (like C)? or is there any other way to do it?
<daf> carlos: is this a file on disk?
<lulu> daf: perhaps if you could be online more in the mornings that would be great - leading up to the 15th - is that possible?
<carlos> daf: no
* lalo goes check
<carlos> daf: it's a stdout returned as a file object
<lalo> you can't seek on stdout  o.O
<lalo> unless it's a really strange stdout :-P
<daf> lulu: I can try
<daf> lulu: usually these things wrap around
<carlos> so I need to read all the stdout and then get the lenght, right?
<daf> lulu: i.e. I start having a 27-hour cycle or so
<carlos> daf: that's not sane
<lulu> daf: thanks hon - that will be great :o) if you can manipulate your cycle back to normal! 24hrs!
<lalo> carlos: yes, seek+tell is what you have. That's odd.
<carlos> unless the days start having more than 24 hours...
<lalo> or if you can't seek, len(foo.read())
<daf> carlos: it's not that strange
<daf> carlos: my days just go out of sync with everybody else's
<carlos> daf: I said sane, not strange :-)
<lalo> my "normal" days have 30h
<daf> :-)
<daf> I think Keybuk has similar experiences
<lalo> experiences made with cosmonauts and submarine crew point to the best possible cycle for humans being more than 24 - IIRC, more close to 30 - which may or may not prove that we're not originally from this planet :-P
<lalo> </off-topic>
<carlos> daf: mines were also that way, but only when I'm alone, when there is someone else in my house I cannot do that or I will not be able to sleep more than 3-4 hours because the noise
<lalo> carlos: there is no really good reason why files can't have a method that returns the size as well as it's known... if you want to submit a bug for Python, it will probably be fixed before 2.5, with luck even 2.4
<carlos> lalo: in this case, you are right, it's a stdout so it's normal you cannot get the size until you read all the data
<daf> carlos: ah, I am quite a deep sleeper, so I suppose it happens to me more easily
<carlos> we are exporting now .mo files :-)
<daf> wahey!
<lalo> mo???
<lalo> interesting :-)
<carlos> and the md5sum is the same if I do it by hand
<carlos> so I suppose it works :-P
<lalo> does it have the right filename? ;-)
<carlos> lalo: yes
<carlos> :-)
<carlos> the export.po url does not exists anymore
<carlos> daf: how could I get the lp:url attribute from a template?
<carlos> I want to add the links to the po and mo download urls from the pofile page
<daf> I'm not sure I understand the question
<carlos> we have at pages.zcml an attribute lp:url for every page
<carlos> that tells us the URL 
<carlos> I'm not sure but I think I saw a template that get that information
<carlos> or It was a dream?
<daf> from the PO file page, it would be <a tal:attributes="href string:${self/name}/po">Export as PO file</a>
<daf> or soemthing like that
<daf> the lp:url attributes are only for documentation purposes
<carlos> ok, it was a dream :-P
<daf> the only thing that extracts them is the "make url-table" command, I think
* lalo ponders whether we should have a resolution in bugzilla that looks like "the magic fairies fixed it"
<lalo> (j/k, before someone adds it)
<lalo> #1938 is interesting... even if the comment is "", the export should still be ignoring it, IIRC
<lalo> ah, the comment is probably "\n" or something like that
<daf> the comment should not be touched at all
* lalo nods
<carlos> hmmm
<carlos> Error
<carlos> 
<carlos> Bug# 1913 has still 1 unresolved dependency. Show Dependency Tree.
<carlos> daf: is the stuart's fix merged into rocketfuel?
<carlos> I cannot close my bug because the dependency X-)
<daf> likewise :-(
<lulu> cheers guys - I'm off - thanks for today :o)
<daf> lifeless should be up in another 5 or 6 hours, I think
<daf> lulu: see you
<carlos> lulu: bye bye
<kiko> chao lulu
<lulu> adios amigos
<carlos> :-)
<carlos> ok
<carlos> I'm going to leave for a while and continue working later
<carlos> later
<daf> later
<carlos> cool
<carlos> daf: msgfmt is not installed into rosetta server right?
<carlos> in that case, what should we show here?: https://rosetta.warthogs.hbd.com/++skin++Debug/rosetta/projects/gnome/evolution/evolution-2.0/es/mo
<carlos> I should fix my code but we will detect a problem and we should show anything to the user
<lalo> carlos: can you reproduce 1938? I suspect the fairies got it too, because I can't find any code in browser.py that touches commenttext
<carlos> lalo: let me check
<carlos> lalo: no, the problem is still there
<lalo> ok
<carlos> so it's not fixed by python's god :-P
<lalo> thanks
<carlos> np
* lalo publishes Action Comics #1 featuring Superman, in an attempt to reproduce 1938, and hopes that someone else invades Austria
<daf> lalo: something to do with the way message sets are created in PO files by the TTW translation code?
<lalo> daf: that was my guess, but the bug is about translations that already existed in the db
<daf> "OpenOffice.org: Is it an application or a web site? Who knows!" :D
<lalo> well, aha
<lalo> message sets are, indeed, created with '' rather than None
<daf> is that it?
<lalo> which is just reasonable, seeing as commentText is notNull
<daf> ok, that can't be the bug then
<lalo> still rather odd :-P
<daf> yes
<lalo> well, if it's notNull then it must be fixed at the adapter level. And this part of the fix I have already.
<daf> I think it would probably best be debugged by tracing through the export process
<lalo> not necessary, I already found the bug in the adapter
<lalo> I was investigating further because I suspected the bug could be twofold - but that doesn't seem to be the case, so I can commit
!lilo:*! More rambling in #fossie .... "a project to fiddle around with the idea of a small, modular, message-passing-event-driven communications framework..." today's subject matter would be table storage for plug-in modules and how reloads should be done.... if you have a fair amount of C and have fiddled with plug-in architectures, linked lists, memory allocation, etc., you might be of help
!lilo:*! Please feel free to stop by.
* lalo makes a break, bbl
<lalo> I'll make a task for myself of fixing the ftests when I'm back
<lalo> it's rather cumbersome to not be able to run them and be 100% sure you didn't break anything important
#launchpad 2004-09-21
* debonzi Goes to dinner and studies
<lalo> Britney Spears died to save us!
<kiko-afk> she died?
<lalo> kiko-afk: not really :-P I'm just a bit more excited than would be healthy about a musical I've seen in London
<lalo> it's set in the future, and there's a character (male) named Britney Spears, and one of the main characters extracts a very good laugh from the audience when she says the sentence I just typed here
<daf> lalo: any idea how I log into Launchpad?
<daf> I mean, what username/password I use
<lalo> I didn't even know you needed to :-P
<daf> I didn't, until I wanted to look at the API docs
<daf> hmmm
<daf> getting some strange errors now
<daf> I think I'll go to bed and ask Steve when I get up
<lalo> me too
<lalo> really should try to be here some part of the morning tomorrow :-)
<daf> :)
<spiv> daf: What are you doing still up? ;)
<daf> spiv: working on template upload
<daf> spiv: you? :)
<spiv> Working on an xml-rpc auth server for plone to talk to.
<daf> let me see... it's 23:00 for you?
<spiv> I just hit a minor snag that will require confirmation from Steve to continue, though, so now is a good time to go to bed.
<spiv> Hah.
<spiv> I was on a reasonable approximation of US time while I was there.
<daf> oh, you're in London
<daf> of course
<spiv> Then the silly trip to London kinda threw me, as I didn't really sleep on that plane.
<spiv> (Not to mention the fun and games surrounding that particular flight...)
<spiv> And then things like TMBG concerts conspire to prevent me having early nights ;)
<daf> hehe
<spiv> Yeah, in London for a few more hours... :)
<daf> how was the concert?
<spiv> Pretty good, the Astoria is a nice small venue.
<daf> I last saw them at the Astoria in London, which is a bit big but pretty good
<spiv> They played a good spectrum of material.
<spiv> Well, the most recent concert I'd seen prior to this was Radiohead at the Sydney Entertainment Centre.  They did a good show, but it's hard to feel involved when you're in the back seats of such a huge venue.
* daf nods
<spiv> (It holds about 10000 people, iirc)
<spiv> The support act was some wierd long-haired Texan that played the accordion.  They brought him on to play Particle Man with Linnel.
<spiv> Linnell, rather.
<daf> did the Johns have the Dans with them?
<spiv> They segued into a sort of duelling-accordions thing in the middle :)
<daf> :D
<spiv> Miller and Weinkauf, but the drummer is Marty someone.
<daf> oh, interesting
<spiv> (The same drummer as for most of the new album)
<daf> did he play the glockenspiel?
<spiv> There was no glockenspiel, or shoehorn with teeth!
<daf> ah, I guess it was getting a bit routine :)
<spiv> I recall hearing they actually gave away the glockspiel at a gig a few months ago.
<daf> gosh
<spiv> It's not like the synth couldn't be used for it if they really wanted, though...
<spiv> But I don't feel let down by the set list -- there was plenty of stuff I'd never heard live before.
<spiv> (Actually, I did a quick mental tally and I think they managed to play something from every album)
<spiv> They did Violin :)
<spiv> And got us to mexican wave during the middle of it.
<daf> oh, cool :)
<spiv> So... what's *your* excuse for being up this late? :)
* spiv figures out the answer to the question he was going to ask Steve
<daf> my excuse?
<daf> this is just what my sleep patterns are like at the moment
<daf> I went to bed at 7am yesterday
<daf> I don't think I can do without Steve
<daf> and I need to be awake when you turn up tomorrow
<daf> so I think I will go to bed
<spiv> See you then :)
<daf> night :)
-lilo(levin@levin-pdpc.staff.freenode)- [Server Notice]  Hi all.  We'll be restarting your server momentarily.  Just sit back and enjoy the ride---you should be back up pretty quickly.  Feel free to reconnect manually if your client doen't retry at 5:00.  Thank you for using freenode!
* Due to a network split, you can not obtain channel operator status in a new channel at this time 
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* ..[topic/#launchpad:irc.freenode.net] : <kiko> how's england? <daf> wet <daf> but soon, I will go back to Wales <kiko> and how will wales be? <daf> probably wet, too
<SteveA> daf: ping
<daf> SteveA: pong
<SteveA> hi
<SteveA> just chatting to scott
<SteveA> be with your shortly
<daf> SteveA: I'm planning to go into town this afternoon -- if you need something from me urgently, can you let me know soon?
<SteveA> can we chat in 5 mins?
<carlos> daf: I need to go to the university now, I will be back this afternoon
<carlos> same question for you
<carlos> do you need anything from me?
<daf> carlos: no
<carlos> ok
<daf> carlos: do you need anything from me?
<carlos> see you later
<carlos> daf: I don't think so
<carlos> SteveA: about the password, I will add a comment to the bug report, but I need to know the way we should store them (plain text, crypt, md5...)
<carlos> later
<SteveA> ok
<SteveA> daf: almost done...
<SteveA> back
* lalo waves
<lalo> I'll have to reboot and be offline for about 15m to do some electrical stuff, but otherwise I'm already up
<SteveA> daf?
<daf> SteveA: hi
* spiv waves from daf's place
<SteveA> hi daf, hi spiv
<SteveA> hi daf
<SteveA> Let's check through the rosetta alpha wiki page
<daf> ok
<SteveA> first, I think we should modify the "Where"
<daf> to http://rosetta.ubuntulinux.org?
<SteveA> it will be running on the machine "rosetta.warthogs.hbd.com", but we want it to be accessible from the domain "rosetta.ubuntulinux.org"
<daf> ok
<SteveA> also note that the development server should still be accessible as rosetta.warthogs
<SteveA> that is, we'll have two servers and two databases
<daf> right
<SteveA> carlos wrote a script to insert a user into the database
<SteveA> lib/canonical/rosetta/scripts/createuser.py
<SteveA> it needs to be extended to prompt for the user's password
<SteveA> then to create a digest of it, and put that in the database
<daf> is there a bug for that?
<SteveA> the library to create the digest is in lib/canonical/lp/placelessauth/encryption.py
<SteveA> there is a bug
<SteveA> I think I re-opened it today
<SteveA> when I noticed the lack of passwords
<daf> why are we using a special digest method?
<SteveA> what do you mean?
<daf> i.e. why are not just using the standard SHA library or something similar?
<SteveA> you don't just SHA-1 a password and put that in the database
<daf> you don't?
<SteveA> that is vulnerable to a simple dictionary attack
<SteveA> you need to add some salt
<daf> how does that improve security?
<SteveA> http://developer.netscape.com/docs/technote/ldap/pass_sha.html
<SteveA> you can't use a large set of precomputed digests
<SteveA> and quickly check against a digested password
<daf> aren't the passwords sent in plaintext anyhow?
<SteveA> sent where?
<daf> via HTTP
<SteveA> shouldn't we be discussing the alpha document?
<daf> yes, we should
<SteveA> " There will need to be some method arranged for dumping/loading user data."
<SteveA> is a bug filed on that?
<daf> no, I'll do that
<SteveA> thanks
<SteveA> are the points under "user-accessible functionality" up to date?
<daf> is logging in implemented?
<SteveA> yes and no
<SteveA> we need to talk about permissions
<daf> are there bugs filed for the parts that don't work?
<SteveA> good question
<daf> I need to go plug myself in
<daf> back in a minute
<daf> ok, done
<SteveA> aaargh
<SteveA> I just want to search mozilla for the bugs that are assigned to me
<daf> search mozilla?
<SteveA> bugzilla
<SteveA> I cannot find "assignee" anywhere in the advanced searhc form
<daf> https://bugzilla.warthogs.hbd.com/bugzilla/buglist.cgi?query_format=advanced&short_desc_type=allwordssubstr&short_desc=&long_desc_type=substring&long_desc=&bug_file_loc_type=allwordssubstr&bug_file_loc=&status_whiteboard_type=allwordssubstr&status_whiteboard=&bug_status=NEW&bug_status=ASSIGNED&emailassigned_to1=1&emailtype1=substring&email1=steve%40z3u.com&emailassigned_to2=1&emailreporter2=1&emailqa_contact2=1&emailcc2=1&emailtype2=substring&email2=&bugidtype=
<daf> that should do it
<daf> I think it's using "owner" and "assignee" interchangably
<daf> file a bug :)
<SteveA> "bugzilla makes my head hurt"
<SteveA> critical
<daf> Bugzilla URLs make my eyes hurt
<daf> it could do a redirect which eliminates redundant query parameters
<daf> you could delete most of the parameters from the above URL and get the same result
<SteveA> https://bugzilla.warthogs.hbd.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1947
<daf> great
<daf> is this alpha-critical?
<SteveA> that depends
<SteveA> we need to talk about permissions to know that
<daf> okay, let's talk about permissions
<daf> by the way, did you get my email about the error I got when logging in?
<SteveA> nope
<SteveA> let's finish going through the alpha doc
<SteveA> submittingnew/updated translations?
<SteveA> looked like #1913 could possibly be closed
<SteveA> what's implemented for "request a new project" ?
<SteveA> need a bug for it
<daf> we have one
<SteveA> add it to the alpha page on the wiki
<daf> ok
<daf> https://bugzilla.warthogs.hbd.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1948
<SteveA> the " Setting up devel.warthogs.hbd.com alias so that rosetta.warthogs.hbd.com can be used as the alpha." is no longer relevent
<SteveA> we'll still be using rosetta.warthogs.hbd.com for development
<daf> ok
<daf> so it's replaced by "Setting up rosetta.ubuntulinux.org alias"?
<SteveA> well, I'd put it as "making the alpha server on the 'rosetta' machine accessible from rosetta.ubuntulinux.org"
<daf> okay, I've saved the changes I've made so far
<SteveA> looks good
<SteveA> how will the testers track bugs in rosetta?
<SteveA> email you with "issues" and then those are filed as bugs?
<daf> could do
<daf> it might be nice to let them use Bugzilla directly
<daf> is that feasible?
<SteveA> probably not
<SteveA> as that bugzilla instance is for all our internal stuff
<SteveA> so, let's do the "mail to the rosetta-sounders mailing list"
<SteveA> and then one of the team will file bugs based on that
<SteveA> sounds ok to you?
<daf> hmm, I have misgivings about that way of doing things
<daf> or rather, I think having bugs out in the open fosters participation and a sense of community
<SteveA> do you have concrete suggestion?
<daf> no, I don't
<daf> well, we could run yet another Bugzilla for Launchpad testers
<SteveA> that doens't sound feasible in time for the alpha
<daf> no
<daf> or perhaps we could reuse the ubuntu sounders bugzilla
<daf> or perhaps we could make do with email until Malone is ready
<SteveA> how many rosetta testers do you have lined up?
<daf> not very many -- 5-10, I think
<SteveA> let's use the mailing list approach for now
<daf> ok
<SteveA> can you write our intention on the wiki page?
<daf> yes
<SteveA> has anyone contacted jdub about setting up a mailing list?
<daf> done
<daf> no, I don't think so
<daf> I'll do that now
<SteveA> ok
<carlos> hi
<SteveA> hi carlos
<daf> ok, jdub mailed
<daf> hi carlos 
<daf> SteveA: is there anything else about the alpha we need to dictuss, do you think?
<SteveA> do you have rights to create an additional database on rosetta?
<daf> I don't know
<daf> I'll try
<SteveA> and... ?
<daf> hmm it's hanging
<SteveA> what is?
<daf> the database creation process
<carlos> daf: do you have launchpad stopped?
<carlos> if there is any process running the make launchpad_test command hangs
<carlos> until all connection are closed
<daf> launchpad is running
<daf> but I was running "createdb foo"
<SteveA> can you kill it, and strace?
<daf> oh, it's done now
<SteveA> oh, ok
<SteveA> I wonder why it took so long
<daf> it only worked when I killed launchpad
<daf> odd
<SteveA> I just sent email to you, james, and lulu
<SteveA> do you have the proxypass directive that you're using now?
<SteveA> elmo: mail loop!
* SteveA mails admins about apparent mail loop
<daf> let's hope that that mail doesn't get into the loop :)
<SteveA> does rosetta need to send out mail to anywhere?
<daf> yes
<daf> well, maybe
<daf> passwords need to be mailed to users
<carlos> daf: yes, the project request
<daf> and they need to be mailed from somewhere
<daf> carlos: oh, of course
<daf> yes, Rosetta needs to send mail to me
<SteveA> can you already send mail from the dev server?
<daf> I'll try
<SteveA> maybe try 25 on localhost on rosetta
<SteveA> that's the most obvious way to do it from python / zope
<daf> yes, it works
<SteveA> also, please note on the wiki page that this is how "add a new project" is to be implemented
<daf> (the test was "date | mail -s test daf@canonical.com")
<SteveA> oh
<SteveA> better to try telnet to port 25
<daf> why?
<SteveA> that's the way we'll be sending mail in general from zope
<SteveA> when we need to do it transactionally
<daf> oh
<SteveA> for the alpha, using mail will do
<carlos> I will work this weekend, I was working under my normal hours this week
<SteveA> but I'd like to know what can work
<daf> the canonical way to do it on unix systems is to invoke /usr/sbin/sendmail -t, I think
<ddaa> People, do you think the message on the launchpad mailing list was adequate, or should I have simply proposed a patch which remove the useless fields from the ChangesetFile table?
<SteveA> ddaa: I haven't read it yet
<daf> I asked on #canonical yesterday and I was advised thusly by mdz
<ddaa> Bah. No hurry, my day is almost finished.
<SteveA> daf: can you just try ?
<SteveA> there is a tension between the canonical way to do it on a unix system and the canonical way to do it with zope
<SteveA> we'll have to work out which is the best Canonical way
<daf> well, either will probably work for the systems we'll be running Launchpad on
<daf> yes, telnetting to port 35 works
<daf> er, 25
<SteveA> and sends you email?
<daf> yes
<mdz> daf: hey, i first suggested you use SMTP and you said you wanted sendmail :-P
<daf> mdz: sorry, you're right
<SteveA> we can use either, but I would prefer to use whatever the transactional email system uses by default
<daf> I don't think it makes much difference
<daf> if doing it by SMTP works, we can do that
<SteveA> so long as both work, I don't need to ask james to make one of them work ;)
<daf> :)
<daf> ok, any other alpha-related business?
<SteveA> we can remove the "?" from after "Bugzilla"
<SteveA> and write the URL to the launchpad bugzilla
<SteveA> and mention that jdub has been asked to set up a list
<SteveA> and " Setting up devel.warthogs.hbd.com alias so that rosetta.warthogs.hbd.com can be used as the alpha." is wrong
<SteveA> https://bugzilla.warthogs.hbd.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1947 can be a link for "logging in"
<SteveA> then, I think that's it
<daf> done
<SteveA> ok, great.  thanks.
<SteveA> I'll be working on my bugs over the weekend.
* SteveA goes to get food
<lalo> oooh
<lalo> our list of bugs is shrinking :-D
<daf> https://bugzilla.warthogs.hbd.com/bugzilla/showdependencygraph.cgi?id=1915 is looking greyer and greyer
<daf> carlos: can #1913 be closed now?
<carlos> daf: yes
<lalo> well, my ritual daily question - before I pick some bugs for myself, is there any bug(s) in particular you'd like me to take a look at?
<lalo> oh, and I promised you I'd try to write a document. I suppose I'll do that in the next few hours.
<daf> yeah, what I'm looking for is the different states that message sets and sightings have, and the transitions between them
<daf> and what things cause those transitions
<lalo> ok
<lalo> I'll try to include a state diagram in the doc
* lalo checks if he has dia
<daf> I don't require a diagram
<daf> and perhaps an ASCII art diagram would be better than a dia one
<daf> I suspect the doc would be best kept in arch as an RST file
<lalo> even if you don't require it, I'd rather have one - for the uml-speakers a state diagram is an instant reminder
<lalo> ok. yay rst. :-)
<daf> carlos: https://bugzilla.warthogs.hbd.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1934 -- could we be more specific about what we need limi to do?
<carlos> daf: do a global review :-)
<daf> okay, can it say that in the bug?
<carlos> daf: Alexander Limi should review all rosetta's templates and finish their UI review.
<carlos> daf: isn't that enough?
<daf> oh, I missed that bug
<daf> s/bug/bit/
<daf> sorry
<carlos> no problem
<carlos> Does python has a password generator?
* daf gives limi has a couple more bugs
<daf> carlos: not that I know of, but we could probably have pwgen installed on the server
<carlos> daf: I found some .py to do that, is pwgen better than using the non-standard python class?
<carlos> I don't have a preference
<carlos> http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/65217
<carlos> http://www.zopelabs.com/cookbook/1059673251
<daf> pwgen generates passwords which are supposedly easier to remember
* daf installs "apg" to try that out as well
<carlos> daf: I'm an apg user
<carlos> it's fine
<daf> I suggest we use one of those two
<carlos> daf: hey, you only need a 5% more to get cy into GNOME Translation Supported list :-D
<carlos> daf: ok
<carlos> daf: the apg one gives you the password and a phrase to remember it
<carlos> how does pwgen works?
<daf> similar to apg, I think
<daf> it's a bit less fancy
<daf> it generates passwords with different capitalisation and with numbers
<daf> but which are supposedly easier to remember than completely random ones
<carlos> carlos@Gollum:~$ apg
<carlos> Please enter some random data (only first 8 are significant)
<carlos> (eg. your old password):>
<carlos> inkardOj1 (ink-ard-Oj-ONE)
<carlos> DekbitUkIn1 (Dek-bit-Uk-In-ONE)
<carlos> duoxAjIv9 (du-ox-Aj-Iv-NINE)
<carlos> OkIkott8 (Ok-Ik-ott-EIGHT)
<carlos> doydlytGog7 (doyd-lyt-Gog-SEVEN)
<daf> pwgen works more like apg -q
<carlos> FryidBas8 (Fryid-Bas-EIGHT)
<daf> > pwgen
<daf> Ahzosae6 Vi7laiqu uer0Hohf gaenei1A Nu4eenei thohY1ai Wengai7y aex5Eeta
<daf> ...
<carlos> daf: please, decide it you :-P
<daf> :)
<carlos> daf: are you working on a form to send mail?
<daf> not right now
<daf> hmm, apg seems to mostly stick numbers on the ends
<carlos> daf: I'm thinking on add that feature to the account creation, create the account and then send an email with the password
<carlos> with a welcome message and things like that
<carlos> daf: not always
<carlos> I see number in other places
<daf> I think "apt -q -n 1" will do fine
<daf> er
<daf> s/apt/apg/
<carlos> perhaps:  apg -q -n 1 -t is better
<daf> yeah
<carlos> ok
<daf> we need a password-changing mechanism -- I'll file a bug about that
<carlos> daf: point it to rosetta/prefs
<carlos> I will take care of it
<daf> https://bugzilla.warthogs.hbd.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1951
<daf> carlos: you can assign it to yourself if you like
<carlos> daf: about the welcomed mail, do we have anything that documents the way we will send mail. I know SteveA wants to use direct access to the 25 port
<daf> and you might want to move it to Rosetta
<carlos> but do we have anything more about it or should I look into a way to do it
<carlos> ?
<daf> I think you should use the standard smtplib library for now
<daf> http://docs.python.org/lib/module-smtplib.html
<carlos> ok
<daf> it looks fairly easy to use, from the example
* daf goes to make dinner
<carlos> daf: do we have gettext installed ?
<carlos> daf: I think it's not installed
<carlos> and we need it to create the .mo files
<daf> carlos: ah, yes, we need it
<daf> carlos: can you send a request to the admins?
<carlos> daf: I did it already
<carlos> daf: and apg is not in warty :-(
<daf> oh
<daf> isn't it in universe?
<kiko> spiv, have a sec?
<carlos> daf: yes, but It's not supported
<carlos> daf: pwgen is available in warty
<carlos> daf: so we should use it instead of apg
<carlos> dinner time, see you later
<daf> okay, let's use pwgen then
<kiko> daf, I fucked rosetta.wh again. :)
<daf> kiko: bah :)
<daf> kiko: it'll fix itself within 30 minutes
* kiko kicks rosetta
<spiv> kiko: Yeah?
<kiko> spiv, I think I sorted it out already, we can fight it out over email
<kiko> :)
<spiv> Ok :)
<daf> kiko: okay, as a special favour, I've restarted it for you :)
<kiko> daf, oh no, now I owe you *another* one
<daf> you owed me favours already?
<daf> I mean yeah, darn right you do!
<kiko> well, I just crashed it again..
<daf> ok, no biscuits for you
<kiko> luckily I had stocked up on them
<daf> that reminds me, you need to bring me some Brazilian ones the next time we meet :)
<lalo> cookies?
<daf> lalo: no, biscuits
<daf> the biscuits in Brazil were very nice
<lalo> I can't think of such a thing as "Brazilian typical" biscuits
<lalo> you mean a specific one you ate here?
<daf> well, they were some biscuits we picked up in the shop across the road from where the conference was
<daf> we had different varieties
<daf> they were all nice
<lalo> hmm
<lalo> ok, I'll bring some and you hope I happen to pick up the same ones :-)
<daf> they probably weren't very special
<daf> they were a few real
<daf> but I really liked them :)
<lalo> yeah, at a convenience store. You can get good biscuits for < R$1 at a supermarket
<kiko> spiv, any chance you can fit in some time to fix binary packages?
<kiko> spiv, they kill the server and that really annoys me when testing
#launchpad 2004-09-22
<spiv> doko: Sourcerer has or uses that, I believe, so I'd check there.
<lalo> hmnf
<lalo> the class diagram is outdated :-/
<lalo> I can't imagine a situation where msgset.sequence == 0 and msgidsighting.inLastRevision == True or msgset.sequence > 0 and msgidsighting.inLastRevision == False
<lalo> daf: ayt?
<kiko> isn't he keeping like, sane hours?
<lalo> I have no idea :-)
<lalo> last time I asked he wasn't ;-)
<kiko> his warthogs message seemed to indicate that at least.
<daf> lalo: yes
<lalo> hmf. there's something amiss with my logs
<lalo> you got my question?
<lalo> ah, there is the company log :-)
* lalo tries to remember where it is
<lalo> yay warthylog
<lalo> 'xcept technically it wasn't a question, but you get my point
<daf> I think that's a correct assertion
<lalo> ok
!lilo:*! Okay....first step is to make a couple of changes to services....I'm going to try to arrange things so that channels that would get dropped will instead get saved under a different contact name.
!lilo:*! Then we should be able to save most of the active ones.
!lilo:*! It's probably worth noting that I'm going to be busy, so if possible, help requests should be directed to another staffer
!lilo:*! Thanks!
<ddaa> <lifeless> and for the next production drop I should have the sql + code changes to remove filecontents completely.
* ddaa \o/
<cprov> daf:morning, can you please rebuild the DB on https://rosseta.wart.../ ? 
<daf> cprov: done
<cprov> daf: thank you
<cprov> daf: did you get errors on database/schema/make ?
<cprov> daf: there is some missed data
<cprov> daf: sorry, I mean all Soyuz data is missed :) 
<cprov> daf: ping ?
<daf> hmm, I didn't notice any errors
<daf> but it might have scrolled by too fast for me to notice
<cprov> daf: strange, I get (0 distributions) and (0 persons) and so on ...but I get all rosetta data.
<daf> cprov: I just ran it again, and there were no errors
<cprov> daf: now it is ok :)
<daf> oh, ok
<daf> strange :)
* cprov wonders what was the problems
<cprov> s/problems/problem
<cprov> daf: anyway tks daf
<daf> de nada
<cprov> aha, more one portuguese speaker :)
<cprov> daf: see you later 
<daf> carlos: "(n==1) ? 0 : (n==2) ? 1 : (n != 8 || n != 11) ? 2 : 3" is the most complete plural form expression I know of for Welsh
<carlos> daf: too easy X-)
<daf> carlos: :)
<carlos> daf: will you add it to languages.sql?
<daf> carlos: at least, I haven't come across anything which requires something more complicated than that
<daf> I could do
<carlos> or even better, to the script that wiil feed the database in the future
<daf> have you finished the new status pages yet?
<carlos> I was planning to work on it tonight
<carlos> daf: why?
<daf> just asking :)
<daf> I've finally started working on Welsh translations for GNOME 2.8
<carlos> It's almost done, that's the worst part
<daf> heh :)
<carlos> is just I need to create some scritps to feed the database :-)
<daf> go Carlos!
<daf> I'm sure you could finish them this weekend
* daf back later
<carlos> hope it
<carlos> ok, later
#launchpad 2004-09-23
!lilo:*! Well, it's been quite a weekend.  Finally getting nearly finished with various modifications to services to allow a relatively easy cleanup of nicknames and channels.
!lilo:*! Okay, I think we're finally there.  Since there are 5,500 affected channels, it looks like a bit too time-intensive to go through all of them.  If your channel gets expired out, we'll be happy to restore it, though you may need to file a group contact form.
!lilo:*! If you've already filed a group contact form and it's in our backlog, we'll just make a special effort to activate it quickly.
!lilo:*! In just a couple of minutes, I'll shut down services and perform the cleanup.  It should take 15 minutes at most.  Let us know if you have any problems.  Thanks!
!lilo:*! Whoops, still checking, looks as if we're not quite through.
!lilo:*! Quick rerun in process.
!lilo:*! One more shot, this should do it 8)
<daf> carlos: hola
<carlos> daf: hey
<daf> how are the status pages? :)
<carlos> daf: yesterday I did a full update and it did not broke anything :-P
<carlos> all modules where downloaded, updated and imported into the database
<daf> sounds good!
<daf> does this mean it's ready?
<carlos> no, it only means that it's more close to be ready
<carlos> I'm working now on launchpad and tonight I will retake it
<daf> cool
<daf> what Launchpad stuff are you working on?
<carlos> the password bug
<carlos> I mean, the password task
<carlos> daf: well, I forgot that also, yesterday I "fixed" the status pages getting 20 new strings to translate...
<daf> oops
<carlos> seems like old intltool didn't saw them and I installed latest release that fixes them
<daf> oh, and now gnome-i18n is discussing whether to include them or not
<carlos> right
<carlos> but I suppose they will be there, tomorrow is the final release and I don't think 20 strings will be a problem for anyone
<daf> I thought Wednesday was the final release?
<carlos> daf: I think tomorrow is last day to release packages
<carlos> and the final announcement will be on wednesday
<carlos> when all mirrors are updated and all things are in place
<carlos> daf: from: http://www.gnome.org/start/2.7/
<carlos> 24  	September 13th  	2.8.0 tarballs due
<carlos> September 15th 	September 15th: 2.8.0 release! 	Hard Code Freeze ends, but other freezes remain in effect for the stable branch.
<carlos> I cannot understand my brain. I know that in english 'it' is not for persons but I alwasy wrote it in my mails or IRC when talking about someone
<carlos> grrrr
<daf> :(
<daf> hmm, seems I've dragged Welsh back up to supported status
<carlos> daf: cool :-P
#launchpad 2004-09-24
<justdave> carlos: I think that rule is stupid ("it" for persons being considered derogatory)
<justdave> and English is my native language :)
<justdave> you know how hard it is trying to write politically correct documentation with no gender-neutral pronoun to refer to a singular person? :)
<carlos> justdave: well, I know the rule, and I'm not unhappy with it, the problem is that althought I know it, I never use it in my mails...
<carlos> justdave: :-P
<justdave> One of these days the academics will decide that it's legal to use "they" as a singular. :)  Most people already do it anyway, you just get points marked off for using it on school papers.
<carlos> next month I will retake my english studies (about 8 years since last time), I will propose it there :-P
<jblack> justdave: I love those pedantics. I think that somewhere along the line they forgot that language is nothing more than an informal agreement for what things mean.
<carlos> good night
<carlos> see you tomorrow
<carlos> daf: perhaps I will be late tomorrow morning, I have a meeting about ubuntu in my university but I will be here before the meeting
<carlos> (before the Rosetta meeting)
<daf> morning
<lulu> daf:hey! did u have a good weekend?
<daf> yeah, it was pretty good
<daf> I managed to get some GNOME translation work done, finally
<daf> how about you?
<lulu> excellent thanks! busy - bought 3 beds and a sofa for my new flat! lotsa mates,
<lulu> now big work push this week.
<daf> yep
<SteveA> hi
<daf> hi Steve
<SteveA> I'm going to be doing email stuff for a while.  Ping me on jabber if you need something.
<daf> sure
<SteveA> daf: I'm having a soyuz meeting at the same time you'll be having your daily rosetta meeting.  Can you ensure that the code on rosetta.warthogs.hbd.com is up to date please?
<carlos> morning
<SteveA> hi carlos
<daf> SteveA: assuming the server's running and no changes have been made to the database schema or sample data, it should be within half an hour of being up-to-date
<daf> SteveA: is that good enough?
<SteveA> daf: the meeting it in 15 minutes
<SteveA> daf: oh, I see what you mean :-)
<SteveA> for a second, I thought you meant that the server would take up to 30 minutes' work to update
<SteveA> good morning debonzi
<daf> SteveA: heh :)
<debonzi> SteveA, Goog Morning
* daf suspects he should invest in more RAM
<SteveA> hi cprov
<spiv> Just waiting for kiko?
<cprov> SteveA: morning, sorry, I'm  a bit late .
<SteveA> debonzi, cprov, spiv: Can we go to #launchpad-meeting?  #canonical-meeting is occupied with an arch team meeting, and #launchpad will be occupied with a rosetta team meeting 
<daf> meetings galore :)
<carlos> daf: what's galore?
<daf> carlos: "galore" means "in abundance"
<carlos> :-P
<daf> i.e. there are lots of them
<SteveA> carlos: read books by "enid blighton" to get the correct "galore" idiom :-)
<SteveA> it is about as obselete a term as those books are
<daf> s/blighton/blyton/, IIRC
<SteveA> oh, like bryton 
<carlos> SteveA: I think I should learn more current words before :-)
<daf> golly, do let's start the meeting
<carlos> daf: lalo is not here yet
<SteveA> gosh, I do hope it will be a corker.
* carlos thinks on start talking in Spanish :-P
<SteveA> I think the andelusian dialect would be an appropriate complement to mid-last-century english
<SteveA> at least, that's what antonio banderas' character spoke in in the spanish version of "shrek 2"
<daf> heh :)
<carlos> SteveA: It's hard for me to understand some spanish people from andalucia (and I had a girldfriend from there)
<daf> well, lalo is jolly late and I shall have to give him what for!
* carlos didn't saw Shrek 2 
<SteveA> if he's any later, you should jolly well give him what five and six too!
<carlos> daf: ok
<daf> Five Go Writing a Web Application
<SteveA> daf: I think you should start without lalo
<SteveA> maybe consider phoning him
<daf> I think we'll start without him
<daf> carlos: ok?
<carlos> daf: yes
<daf> right
<daf> first of all, how was your weekend?
<carlos> daf: my first relaxed weekend since Oxford 
<carlos> so, it was fine. Thanks
<daf> that's good to hear :)
<daf> plus, you managed to relax *and* close a bug
<carlos> :-P
<daf> ok, what are you planning on working on today?
<carlos> finishe the preferences page
<carlos> and work on create the import process
<daf> what needs doing to it?
<daf> is there a bug?
<carlos> daf: yes, let me look for it
<carlos> https://bugzilla.warthogs.hbd.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1951
<carlos> and https://bugzilla.warthogs.hbd.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1931
<daf> ah, the password changing
<carlos> daf: I'm planning to add there for free name change
<daf> bonus :)
<carlos> yes :-)
<daf> I'm going to be working on:
<daf> #1929 (project import request)
<daf> I think this one is nearly done -- I think the problems I'm having are related to my local mail setup rather than bugs in the code
<carlos> do you want some testing from me?
<daf> no, I think I'll test that one, since the mails will go to me
<daf> I'm also going to work on the template/PO file upload
<daf> I can't find the bug number...
<carlos> https://bugzilla.warthogs.hbd.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1919
<daf> ah, #1919
<carlos> :-)
<daf> this one is not marked alpha-critical -- is that correct?
<carlos> yes, is correct
<carlos> hmm
<carlos> well, perhaps not as correct as I thought
<carlos> the pot import is not critical, the .po import could be
<daf> I think it's OK
<carlos> ok
<daf> if people upload templates and PO files, do we treat them as ones from revision control?
<carlos> daf: no, they should have a flag that comes from other source
* daf -> phone
<carlos> ok
<carlos> We need to add a new RosettaTranslationOrigin type for "Web upload" or something like that we only have : 1.- SCM  2.- Rosetta
<daf> that makes sense
<daf> the web upload is more or less working
<daf> the main problem is with permissions
<carlos> daf: we still have some schema changes but nobody answered when I sent them about two weeks ago...
<daf> yes?
<carlos> daf: what kind of permissions?
<carlos> daf: yes, labels without unique keys and thinks like that
<carlos> From: 	Carlos Perello Marin <carlos@interactors.coop>
<carlos> To: 	launchpad@rince.africaninspace.com
<carlos> Subject: 	More comments about the DB schema & Rosetta needs
<carlos> Date: 	Mon, 30 Aug 2004 19:39:28 +0200
<daf> Subject: More comments about the DB schema & Rosetta needs                                                                                                                
<daf> oops :)
<carlos> Some questions are post Alpha
<daf> ok, I'll reply to that today
<carlos> thanks
<daf> thanks for reminding me
<carlos> no problem
<daf> so, Steve and I will be working on fixing the remaining permissions problems in the upload
<daf> it's something to do with allowing interfaces
<carlos> ok
<carlos> about the project/product import, I will play with http://arch.no-name-yet.com/
<daf> I think Steve will be working on closing #1907 and #1908
<carlos> seems like there will be all our arch projects
<daf> ah, sounds good
<carlos> but I need to get a file that let's me get the archive + branch we are using (I will ask lifeless)
<carlos> or import all projects/products...
<daf> ok, let me know how that goes
<carlos> ok
<daf> is there anything else we need to discuss?
<carlos> Nothing that I could remember now
<carlos> daf: well, tomorrow I shoud go to "register" in my university for this new year, perhaps I will be late for the meeting
<daf> ok, shall we arrange another time for it?
<carlos> it's one hour and a half before the meeting, so I'm not sure If will be late
<carlos> daf: if we could delay it one hour I think it will be enough, that way I'm sure I will be able to attend on time
<daf> ok, we'll do that
<carlos> perfect, thanks
<daf> de nada
<daf> </meeting>
<cprov> daf: speaking portuguese again ?
<daf> cprov: I only know about five words :)
<cprov> daf: can you update the https://rosseta... just the code DB is ok
<cprov> daf: they are enough to live :)
<daf> cprov: I updated it
<daf> cprov: but it seemed to be up to date
<carlos> :-P
<carlos> cprov: or Spanish, Are the same words :-P
<carlos> ok, lunch time, see you later
<daf> carlos: "obrigado" is Espaol also? :)
<carlos> daf: no
<cprov> carlos: don't be so proud about it :) look !
<carlos> cprov: :-P
<daf> lunchtime for me also, I think
<cprov> see you, guys
* spiv is back from lunch
* daf too
* carlos  too
* SteveA returns
<spiv> How do I find out the possible values for "Assign to" in Bugzilla?
<spiv> i.e. what email addresses people are using in bugzilla?
<daf> good question
<daf> justdave: around?
<daf> SteveA: would now be a good time to work on the upload permissions problem?
<SteveA> daf: I need to reply to an email about contracted work.  Shall we say 20 minutes?
<daf> sure
<daf> lulu: did you say limi was coming back today?
<carlos> daf: he said that last Monday
<daf> right
<lulu> daf: I had thought so - this evening. Apparently he will be online tomorrow. I have not heard from him. He has much to do when he returns....
<daf> lulu: ah
<lulu> daf: please file all the bugs you need him to attend to, ok.
<daf> lulu: I have done :)
<lulu> daf: great
<lulu> how's Rosetta looking?
<lulu> do we have real data in the db yet?
<carlos> lulu: Not yet, I will start importing data today (If all goes right)
<carlos> lulu: but I think we will depend on arch.no-name-yet.com contents, I need to talk about it with lifeless
<lulu> carlos: that needs to be done as a matter of urgency. It's almost 2am, so when he wakes up can you get in touch with him, Carlos?
<carlos> lulu: sure
<lulu> carlos: thanks
<carlos> lulu: but we only have three modules imported so I'm not sure if we will be able to import all ubuntu products for this Wednesday
<carlos> (imported into arch)
<lulu> carlos: ok - do you know what the plan is on what modules by 15th, then thereafter?
<carlos> lulu: No idea, they have a wiki page about this, let me look for it..
<carlos> lulu: https://www.warthogs.hbd.com/ArchImports
<carlos> lulu: of course we could try to do it by hand from tar.gz if we see that they will take more time than we have
<lulu> carlos: ok - I'll have a look - thanks.
<daf> SteveA: do you need more time?
<SteveA> a little 
<SteveA> sorry
<SteveA> daf: do you have some time now?
<daf> yes
<daf> but I'll be finishing off for today in about 45 minutes
<daf> well, I might do some work after I get back from the LUG meeting
<SteveA> ok, let's get going
<daf> ok
<lulu> daf: last week when getting the most NB Warty packages into Arch was discussed.....
<lulu> thus Rosetta gets real data....
<lulu> what packages were discussed?
<lulu> and will Lifeless bring them in
<lulu> or will you have to do it by hand?
<lulu> Daf:please advise...
<daf> lulu: looking at the list of what's imported, I think we'll import ourselves from tarballs
<lulu> when will you do this?
<lulu> and whop will be responsible?
<lulu> who!?
<daf> I'm responsible
<lulu> daf: ok - what's the plan  for this? Do you have a list of the packages and a deadline to bring them in?
<daf> we have a bug for it
<lulu> daf: good - does it specify packages?
<lulu> daf: do you guys need assistance in defining the package list of what should/shouldn't be in?
<daf> no, the bug is to discuss the packages
<lulu> daf: and the tangible outcome is a list?
<daf> yes
<SteveA> Daf and I need to do some pair programming before daf needs to leave.
<lulu> daf: methinks it would be good to schedule that discussion sooner rather than later so you have a list of packages you can hard code on the home page....when Rosetta launches in 2 days.
<lulu> daf: ok - back over to you.
<SteveA> daf: can you give me the IP address or domain name to use?
<daf> SteveA: earthsea.homedns.org
<SteveA> 82.69.60.252 ?
<daf> yes
<SteveA> $ telnet 82.69.60.252 ssh
<SteveA> Trying 82.69.60.252...
<daf> well, it looks right
<daf> if port 22 doesn't work, try 2222
<SteveA> I'm in
<SteveA> on port 2222
<daf> ok, great
<SteveA> stevea@mabli:~$ screen -x daf/
<SteveA> Must run suid root for multiuser support.
<SteveA> upgraded recently?
<daf> oh, yes
<daf> I should probably add a permissions override for it
<SteveA> what's that?
<daf> ok, try again
<daf> later on, look up dpkg-staroverride
<SteveA> no such package
<SteveA> no man page
<SteveA> no command
<SteveA> let's work
<daf> s/star/stat/
<justdave> spiv / daf: put in either their first or last name (or part of it) in the blank and submit it.  If there's more than one person with that name it'll prompt you to pick one.
<spiv> justdave: Ah, ok.  That could be made clearer :)
<kiko> afternoon
<carlos> kiko: hey
<debonzi> spiv, I've create a SQL "patch" for SectionSelection and ComponentSelection. It is in bugzilla as attachment. Should I put it in database/schema and merge in rocketfuel or should I do something else and wait a DBA do that?
<debonzi> SteveA, What do you say about it?
<SteveA> debonzi: what does launchpad/database/schema/README say?
<debonzi> SteveA, ok sorry...
<SteveA> the current dba is rob collins, but it will be stuart bishop again soon
<carlos> SteveA: I'm getting this error with the encryption object:
<carlos>  Module canonical.lp.placelessauth.encryption, line 30, in encrypt
<carlos> v = binascii.b2a_base64(sha.new(plaintext + salt).digest() + salt)
<carlos> hmm
<carlos> wait
<carlos>     *  Module canonical.rosetta.browser, line 365, in submit
<carlos>       person.password = ssha.encrypt(password1)
<carlos>     * Module canonical.lp.placelessauth.encryption, line 30, in encrypt
<carlos>       v = binascii.b2a_base64(sha.new(plaintext + salt).digest() + salt)
<carlos> UnicodeDecodeError: 'ascii' codec can't decode byte 0x8a in position 1: ordinal not in range(128)
<carlos> It's solved if the string is passed as password.encode('UTF-8')
<carlos> but that's not needed with SQLObjects, could we "fix" the SSHADigestEncryptor so it works the same way?
<SteveA> hmm
<SteveA> what are you passing to it?
<SteveA> I mean, how are you using it?
<carlos> password1 = self.request.form['newPassword1'] 
<carlos>                     password2 = self.request.form['newPassword2'] 
<carlos>                     if password1 and password1 == password2:
<carlos>                         person.password = ssha.encrypt(password1)
<SteveA> hmm.
<carlos> to fix the problem: password1 = self.request.form['newPassword1'] .encode('UTF-8')
<SteveA> I suppose people do use non ascii characters in passwords
<carlos> SteveA: that's a bad supposition
<SteveA> really?
<carlos> SteveA: really
<SteveA> please read what I wrote again
<carlos> I know lot of people using them
<carlos> upps
<carlos> sorry
<carlos> :-P
<SteveA> so, in that case, the contract of the digest encryptor should accept unicode objects or ascii strings
<SteveA> so, doing as you suggest is a good plan
<SteveA> but, we must be sure that its unit tests still pass, and also that a new unit test is written
<carlos> should I change it then?
<SteveA> yes
<SteveA> In fact, to do this properly:
<SteveA> 1. file a bug that the password encryptor doesn't accept non-ascii characters
<carlos> I suppose that I should move the .encode inside the encrypt method, right?
<SteveA> 2. add spiv and me to the cc list
<carlos> ok.
<carlos> 3. Attach the proposal patch
<SteveA> 3. change the IPasswordEncryptor interface to explain about unicode
<SteveA> 4. write a unit test that uses a password that contains non-ascii characters
<SteveA> 5. write the patch so that the unit test passes
* carlos phone
<SteveA> It is not sufficient just to do a patch.  The interface and tests must be kept up to date.
<SteveA> Both encrypt and validate will need to be encoded to UTF-8
<SteveA> We'll need to make sure that upfront systems gets the new code, too.
<SteveA> hmm.
<SteveA> I wonder how browsers deal with non-ascii characters in basic auth
<carlos> SteveA: ok, I will do it now
<carlos> SteveA: No idea about the basic auth
<jblack> spiov, steva: ping
<kiko> hmmm
<kiko> has anyone managed to get #canonical auto-join in x-chat?
<carlos> kiko: #canonical,#launchpad talentlesstramps
<carlos> kiko: first, the list of channels, at the end, the list of passwords
<kiko> let's try that again then.
<carlos> kiko: if you want to change the order: #launchpad,#canonical '',talentlesstramps
<kiko> ah. let's try that.
<cprov> kiko: finally :)
<kiko> thanks.
<carlos> kiko: Scott told us the solution ;-)
<kiko> carlos, I didn't know about this space-separation and ordering business, very tricky.
<carlos> kiko: I know, Scott gave me a new reason to hate much more xchat
<kiko> it's hard to hate something I use every day more than I already do
<debonzi> spiv, ping
#launchpad 2004-09-25
<kiko> debonzi, the potato is cooking
<debonzi> kiko, I can see it
<kiko> stub!
<kiko> the etched database admin!
<stub> kiko: Morning
<kiko> how's it going?
<stub> Good enough. Nice to be back home after that last  hectic month in England :-)
<kiko> england always figures as hectic in my diary
!lilo:*! Hi all.  Of possible interest to VoIP users:  ##fwd (unofficial channel for Free World Dialup users and users of peered services) .... #voip (community VoIP efforts) .... thanks
* Signon time  :    Sat Sep 11 00:00:35 2004
* Signoff time :    Tue Sep 14 06:15:40 2004
* Total uptime :    3d  6h 15m  5s
* [#canonical]  Bad channel key
* Signon time  :    Tue Sep 14 06:16:55 2004
* Signoff time :    Tue Sep 14 06:17:17 2004
* Total uptime :    0d  0h  0m 22s
<lifeless> SteveA: around ?
<lifeless> spiv: around ?
<SteveA> hi lifeless
<lifeless> SteveA: so
<lifeless> whats the status of the authentication stuff?
<daf_> morning
* daf_ notices that he seems to have grown an underscore overnight
<SteveA> lifeless: the server supports basic authentication
<lifeless> ok, is there  README somewhere on how I protect fields ?
<SteveA> authentication is by password.  the SSHA digest of the password is stored in the database
<lifeless> oh, I forgot to add to me email about i18n there, that usernames also need to be strictly ascii
<SteveA> there's the standard zope3 documentation on it
<SteveA> for HTTP authentication?
<lifeless> yes
<lifeless> there is no means to signal any other encoding from client to server.
<SteveA> <pedant>protecting fields is not authentication</pedant>  is it sufficient for your current needs to have three classes of fields:
<SteveA> 1. not accessible to web requests
<SteveA> 2. accessible to all requests
<SteveA> 3. accessible only if a person is logged in
<lifeless> SteveA: pfft, you know what I mean.
<lifeless> yes, if a /specific person/ is logged in.
<SteveA> no, that is not implemented yet
<lifeless> ok, do we have an eta?
<SteveA> what is implemented is those three classes I described.
<SteveA> no, it is more a matter of shuffling my todo stack
<lifeless> so, to open the production site to the staff, we need that.
<SteveA> stack/dequeue
<SteveA> can you talk me through a specific example of what you need?
<SteveA> so I can see exactly what parts of the entire system need to be there for you
<lifeless> ok, SourceSource.processingapproved - only I can flick that on.
<lifeless> and no-one else can flick it on or off.
<SteveA> do you want to hard-code your Person.id into the code?
<lifeless> thats the simplest example, and the more complex ones are essentially the same with a little workflow checking that shouldn't impact the requirements.
<lifeless> SteveA: not particularly, but I could live with that for now.
<SteveA> how else are you linked to SourceSource.processingapproved?
<SteveA> for example, are you the "owner" of all SourceSources, and the owner can change processingapproved ?
<lifeless> no.
<lifeless> I'm the arch nazi.
<SteveA> then, unless there's a Nazi table in the database, your Person.id must be in the source code tree 
<SteveA> can you describe another example, maybe one that doesn't rely on a particular nazi?
<lifeless> do we have roles or some such ?
<lifeless> SteveA: all the ones that I care about now are nazi ones.
<SteveA> I think there should be some way of describing this in the database
<SteveA> I mean, we could have nazipersons.py to describe who the nazis are...
<lifeless> there are things like: once approved, a sourcesource can't be modifiable.
<lifeless> except by the nazi
<SteveA> that's fine, so long as we have the concept of "the appropriate nazis"
<SteveA> this is going to be an intersting canonical-traffic...
<lifeless> we have the idea of Teams.
<SteveA> I'll get you an "I'm on team nazi" t-shirt...
<SteveA> ok, so I need to know what is the minimum you need to allow you to "open the production site to staff"
* lifeless points at sabdfl
<SteveA> I need to go off-line for a little bit, as I just updated warty
<SteveA> Provided we can decide how to handle these "special people", I can make what you need happen pretty quickly
<lifeless> I'd be happy with Team membership, if changing that for that team is privileged (say to the team 'sysops')
<SteveA> ok.  File a bug on me in the launchpad bugzilla.  The bug description is to "protect SourceSource.processingapproved as follows", and then you can describe in terms of Teams with the SQL you want, what the rules are.  You can protect reading differently from writing.  Also note that whether a SourceSource is modifiable by most people depends on the value of that attribute.  And, how I decide who "most people" are, and who are the exceptions.
<SteveA> The more specific the SQL and explanations are, the smaller the slot it will need for me to do it, and thus the quicker I can get it done.
<SteveA> or rather, the sooner I can get it scheduled
<lifeless> heh. uhm, you do know what I think of SQL. Can I use object interactions instead?
<SteveA> sure
<lifeless> (I'm really not trolling)
<SteveA> in fact, that's how it would be implemented, so that would save me time
<lifeless> good :)
<SteveA> pseudocode even...
<lifeless> so why did you being SQL into it ?
* lifeless is now trolling
<lifeless> oh yeah.
<lifeless> I did some hacking on gnu smalltalk in my evenings/weekend for the last week and a bit.
<lifeless> http://www.robertcollins.net/nb3.png <- gtk bound class browser :}
<lifeless> When I asked mark for a carve-out for that, he said sure.. but he'd like me to spend some time keeping an eye on the python3 process.
<lifeless> so I promised to ask you what lists to join to do that?
<SteveA> lifeless: python-dev I expect
<SteveA> high traffic, lots of noise
<SteveA> When I read it, I use gmane
<SteveA> I generally read it only when someone tells me something's happening
<SteveA> or when I get invited to post
!Md:*! sorry for the splits... we have hit again a bug in our irc daemon. please /join #newircd if you'd like to help developing a better ircd for freenode
<daf> limi: hi
<limi> hey daf
<daf> how was your holiday?
<limi> brilliant
<limi> saved my brain
<limi> now I am sane and productive again ;)
<limi> I got a merge failure for the language selector fix I submitted before the holiday, btw
<limi> so if it didn't work for you, that's why
<daf> yeah, I saw your message
<daf> I haven't played with the language selector much, so I couldn't say if it's working like it's supposed to
<daf> I suggest you try star-merging from RF and then submitting another merge
<daf> I expect you'll have a conflict in rosetta-preferences.pt when you merge from RF
<limi> ok
<limi> I have to do that later, though - doing the Canonical/Ubuntu sites now
<daf> did you hear about the workaround we have for the weird merge problems we were having?
<lifeless> SteveA: thanks. what do you think of the screen shot :}
<daf> lifeless: I'm having trouble accessing that screenshot
<daf> the domain resolves, but no connection
<lifeless> ah
<lifeless> there are two hosts.
<lifeless> use the other one
<daf> which one is "the other one"? :)
<lifeless> jdub turned off his host when he reinstalled
<lifeless> ok, I've renewed the dns zone
<daf> oo
<lifeless> it should work now, once your dns cache refreshes
<jblack> Morning debonzi
<daf> morning jblack 
<jblack> Hiya daf
<debonzi> jblack, Morning 
<daf> SteveA: will you have time to look at #1907 and #1908 today?
<carlos> hi
<carlos> daf: ?
<daf> hi
<carlos> daf: could we have the meeting?
<daf> we could
<daf> let's
<carlos> ok
<daf> okay, how are #1931 and #1951 coming along?
<carlos> the #1951 is almost done
<carlos> I need to talk with steve about a bug I detected yesterday but that seems like it's not a bug
<carlos> (from a Stuart's mail this morning)
<daf> ok
<carlos> the #1931 is not finished yet
<carlos> but It will take no more than 30 minutes
<daf> ok, great
<daf> I got web template upload to work this morning
<SteveA> carlos: about the password / ascii bug
<carlos> SteveA: yes
<SteveA> so, the SSHADigestEncryptor code should allow passwords that are unicode objects, but should encode them as ascii only, and should give a reasonable exception otherwise.
<carlos> SteveA: ok
<SteveA> We also need to ensure that login ids are ascii only
<carlos> SteveA: do we have such info already? (the login id)
<debonzi> lifeless, ping
<SteveA> it's the email address
<carlos> I thought we were talking about email address 
<SteveA> and these are ascii anyway, aren't they?
<carlos> SteveA: I think so
* SteveA doesn't really know
<SteveA> daf: is spiv still staying with you?
<daf> SteveA: yes
<lifeless> debonzi: wassaup ?
<daf> RFC-822 email addresses are definitely ASCII
<daf> I don't think any of the later standards have changed that
<SteveA> Any objections to changin the launchpad meeting tomorrow to 1400 UTC rather than 1200 UTC ? 
<spiv> That's fine with me.
<carlos> SteveA: it's ok for me
<limi|busy> CET is UTC +1 or +2?
<limi|busy> none of my converters have UTC, only GMT - and I think they are not equivalent?
<limi|busy> (although maybe in practice, they are?)
<daf> in practice, they are
<limi|busy> ok
<daf> they are within 1 second of each other
<limi|busy> thanks
<limi|busy> that'll do ;)
<daf> and UTC is more fashionable ;)
<kiko> SteveA, okay by me
<lifeless> daf: you been reading g-a-u ?
<SteveA> ok, meeting will be at 14:00 UTC or 14:00 GMT, whichever comes first.  I'll send a mail to the list.
<spiv> :)
<daf> lifeless: I've browsed it a couple of times
<carlos> g-a-u?
<carlos> daf: Could we end our meeting?
<daf> are we finished?
<carlos> daf: no
<carlos> we should talk about today work
<daf> ok
<daf> you're going to finish #1931 and #1951?
<carlos> daf: well, in fact, for me it's clear. I will work today until we close all bugs
<daf> ok
<daf> I got web template upload to work this morning
<carlos> daf: we need to disable it or to implement a way to lock it 
<daf> which is part of #1919
<carlos> so you are the only one that could use it
<daf> yes
<carlos> because you will be the owner of all projects
<daf> well, we have two options: either we work out some way of securing it, or I don't commit the implementation for now
<carlos> daf: we could disable that page for now if you don't need to use it (I suppose it's easier for you to use a script)
<daf> I don't need to use it, no
<daf> I think I will work on #1930
<daf> did you see #1958?
<carlos> we could move it then to post alpha
<daf> #1919 is not marked as alpha-critical
<carlos> daf: yes, I see it
<carlos> daf: ok
<daf> your comments on #1958 would be appreciated
<carlos> daf: you could look at the prefered languages implementation for an example to do it
<daf> yes, that's what I was thinking
<carlos> it's the same idea
<SteveA> spiv: I have mailed roche at upfront confirming that passwords will be ascii-only
<daf> I don't really understand how Schemas and Labels work yet
<carlos> daf: hmm, what happens if two translators want to work in the same project?
<carlos> daf: do we have it blocked for only one translator?
<spiv> SteveA: Great.
<daf> ok, alpha-critical bugs we have left: #1907, #1908, #1930, #1931, #1932, #1934, #1944, #1948, #1951
<daf> carlos: that's something we need to work out
<carlos> daf: what?
<daf> SteveA: #1907 and #1908 are assigned to you -- will you be able to look at them today?
<daf> carlos: how to deal with concurrent translators
<daf> I'm going to work on #1930, and carlos is goign to work on #1931 and #1951
<carlos> daf: We could move it post Alpha
<daf> carlos: yes, I think so, but there should be a bug filed, I think
<daf> carlos: we have quite a few non-alpha bugs
<carlos> ok
<carlos> I will file now a bug about it
<carlos> could we create a beta metabug?
<daf> this leaves #1932, #1934, #1944 and #1948
<daf> (for the alpha)
<carlos> daf: when will be released the beta?
<daf> yes, a beta metabug is a good idea
<daf> carlos: it hasn't been decided
<daf> carlos: for now, you can just title it "release the Rosetta beta"
<carlos> ok
<daf> limi|busy: could you perhaps comment on https://bugzilla.warthogs.hbd.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1934
<limi|busy> daf: send me a mail, and I'll do it tonight? Lu will kill me if I do ;)
<daf> limi|busy: sure
<lulu> :o) 
<lulu> daf: thanks
<daf> lulu: no problem
<carlos> daf: anything else?
<daf> bugs we haven't discussed yet: #1932, #1944, #1948
<daf> #1948 won't be needed at the beginning of the alpha
<kiko> hey lulu!
<carlos> daf: the 1932 is easy, as long as we have the complete list of modules
<carlos> daf: I think lalo will fix the 1944 faster than you or I
<daf> yes, it feels liks a lalo-bug
<carlos> daf: 1948 is post alpha and prebeta
<daf> ok, should it be marked as beta-critical, then?
<carlos> daf: yes
<daf> rather than alpha-critical
<carlos> I will do it 
<daf> ok
<daf> great
<carlos> then, we have the task to fill the database the first time
<carlos> you said yesterday we will work with tar.gz instead of arch, right?
<daf> we still need the rosetta.ubuntulinux.org alias to be set up -- I'm waiting to hear back from elmo about that
<daf> elmo: around?
<daf> yes, I think so
<daf> I don't think there are enough things imported into Arch yet
<carlos> daf: ok, from where could we get a file to parse from a python script
<carlos> to handle automatically the import?
<lulu> daf: elmo's at the data centre. He's working on the servers.
<daf> lulu: ah, ok
<SteveA> spiv: just sent you an email
<SteveA> daf: I'll do #1907 and #1908 today
<daf> SteveA: thanks
<daf> carlos: does the alpha actually depend on #1944?
<carlos> daf: well, we could go to alpha without it, but we don't have a way to be sure
<carlos> that it's working without errors...
<kiko> argh
<kiko> spiv, the Moin changed email is unintelligible 
<daf> carlos: that's what the alpha is for -- testing
<daf> carlos: if #1944 is still open tomorrow, will we still launch the alpha?
<carlos> I think so
<cprov> spiv:  you reopened the bug #1952  about mark all dummy data with CSS class dummy, for add also the CSS class. then can you explain or add a comment about where is the CSS file and how to proceed ? 
<daf> ok, I will mark it as non-alpha-critical
<carlos> daf: perfect
<spiv> kiko: It sends a diff of the page source, doesn't it?
<kiko> spiv, a very broken diff if you ask me -- no linefeeds!
<daf> I've also emailed lalo asking him to take it on
<spiv> kiko: Yow!
<spiv> They seem to work for me.  Bizarre.
<kiko> unfortunately the D key swallowed the last one up
<carlos> daf: he should be online this night (from his mail)
<daf> cprov: lib/canonical/lp/styles/launchpad.css?
<daf> carlos: ah, cool
<cprov> daf: thanks .
<carlos> daf: he wrote to launchpad, did you saw it?
<daf> yeah, I saw it
<daf> I think it was just after I woke up :)
<spiv> daf: Ta, you beat me to it :)
<daf> cprov, spiv: welcome :)
<SteveA> justdave: when I enter search terms in the box on the top-right of https://bugzilla.warthogs.hbd.com/bugzilla/, I get a big red error.  If I enter the same terms in the equivalent box on the error page, it searches.
* SteveA files bug
<carlos> daf: about my previous question ...
<carlos> <carlos> daf: ok, from where could we get a file to parse from a python script
<carlos> <carlos> to handle automatically the import?
<SteveA> daf: the alpha will be blocked on the bug I just entered about breadcrumbs: https://bugzilla.warthogs.hbd.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1964
<daf> SteveA: hmm
<daf> SteveA: shortest path would be to get rid of the breadcrumbs
<SteveA> maybe do that for now
<SteveA> and comment in the bug how you have done so
<daf> do you want to mark #1964 as blocking #1915?
<SteveA> better to treat it as optional for the alpha
<daf> ok
<SteveA> who implemented breadcrumbs?
<SteveA> any idea?
<carlos> daf: #1965 is the new metapackage for the beta
<daf> SteveA: I belive it was Andrew Veitch
<carlos> what's breadcrumbs?
<daf>  You are here        ++skin++Debug       rosetta       projects       gnome       gnome-terminal       gnome-terminal-2.2       translate  
<daf> ^^^: breadcrumbs
<carlos> ok
<SteveA> it shouldn't include ++skin++Debug, or any of those kinds of things
<daf> as in Hansel and Gretel
<daf> SteveA: I have some ideas about improving it
<carlos> SteveA: it only inclide that when you are debugging it
<carlos> daf: true :-P
<daf> carlos: you have that in Spain?
* carlos should read more books in english (and also in Spanish)
<carlos> daf: Hansel and Gretel?, sure :-)
<SteveA> carlos: it still shouldn't include it
<carlos> SteveA: ok
<daf> carlos: what's "breadcrumb" in Spanish?
<SteveA> nor the virtual hosting things we can see on the rosetta server
<SteveA> duonos gabaliukas in lithuanian (or something very similar)
<carlos> daf: migas de pan
<daf> carlos: "migas" is crumb?
<carlos> pan == bread, migas == crumb
<carlos> daf: yes
<daf> I love Michael Rosen's version of the story: Handsel and Gristle
<carlos> daf: sorry if I ask you again...
<daf> yes?
<daf> the meeting?
<carlos> <carlos> daf: ok, from where could we get a file to parse from a python script
<carlos> <carlos> to handle automatically the import?
<daf> oh, right
<carlos> O:-)
<daf> I'm not sure I understand the question
<daf> you're thinking of having a script to do the alpha import?
<carlos> yes
<daf> sounds good
<carlos> hope you are not thinking on import all modules by hand...
<daf> no, I suppose not
<carlos> perfect
<daf> so, this script will create projects, products and templates, and import templates from .pot files
<carlos> I know we have the list of packages from the Wiki, or even better from apt source list
<carlos> daf: yes
<daf> and the .pot files will be gotten from tarballs
<carlos> yes
<carlos> if there is no .pot file, we forget about it, but at this moment the tar.gz should have an updated .pot file
<carlos> the problem will came with arch
<daf> right
<carlos> but that's post alpha
<daf> yes
<daf> for the alpha, I thought we were only having a dozen or so projects
<carlos> daf: hmm
<carlos> lulu: ?
<carlos> I think lu talked about all ubuntu packages
<lulu> carlos: yes?
<daf> I thought that was for later on
<carlos> lulu: should all packages be available from Rosetta for the Alpha release?
<carlos> all ubuntu packages
<lulu> daf: you need to import the most important packages into your db
<lulu> daf: is this done?
<lulu> daf: for Warty
<carlos> daf: elmo is at #canonical as elmo_dc
<carlos> lulu: for Warty is on octuber or for tomorrow
<carlos> lulu: we are talking now about what should we import for tomorrow
<carlos>  /s/we/be/
<lulu> guys - Mark is going to send you an email of the packages we need in Rosetta
<lulu> off the Warty default desktop
<lulu> daf: please could you get those in, when you have the email
<lulu> thabkjs :o)
<lulu> oops thanks!
<lulu> carlos: that ok?
<carlos> lulu: perfect
<carlos> thanks
<lulu> no worries
<carlos> daf: so, could we end the meeting now?
<daf> I think so
* daf and spiv are going out for a short while
<carlos> ok
* carlos playing with bugzilla
<carlos> daf: when you have some time, please review the dependency graph. I moved from bugs from alpha to beta and moved the other nonAlpha critical ones to the beta
<carlos> https://bugzilla.warthogs.hbd.com/bugzilla/showdependencygraph.cgi?id=1965&rankdir=LR
<carlos> daf: from Mark's mail, I think we could do the Alpha import by hand
<SteveA> spiv: can you send your notes on the soyuz meeting to the launchpad list soon please
* debonzi linch
* debonzi lunch :)
<carlos> shit. I did a star-merge with some changes in my tree
<daf> oops
<carlos> hm seems like I didn't got any rosetta changes, perhaps I could recover the situation.... but please, don't do it at home
<carlos> M   database/schema/launchpad-1-0-0.sql
<carlos> are we changing that file?
<daf> I didn't think so
<carlos> lifeless?
<daf> I think jblack or ddaa is more likely to be awake
<ddaa> pong
<daf> speak of the devil...
<daf> :)
<ddaa> afaik, this file should not be changed, except maybe by the db nazi...
<carlos> daf: lifeless is the one that handles the .sql file :-)
<ddaa> But tla has no real way to actually lock the file.
<ddaa> You _can_ sets the perms to read-only
<ddaa> But any smart text editor will propose you to override that.
<daf> carlos: oh, I see
<daf> ddaa: is there an easy way to see which changeset last modified a file?
<daf> ddaa: is there an easy way to see which changeset last modified a file?
<ddaa> daf: you can look at the changelog and look for the name of the file.
<daf> ah, of course
<ddaa> tla changelog VERSION
<daf> you might have to do tla log-for-merge, correct?
<daf> if you haven't committed the merge?
<spiv> daf: https://www.warthogs.hbd.com/ArchCheatSheet#head-ba33c2ca9be0aed6db6d5f40aaab1663f003b1b9 ;)
<ddaa> There are various tools in fai and tla-tools for that too.
* carlos fixed his archive
<ddaa> daf: Well, I suppose your tree changes are a merge from rocketfuel.
<daf> spiv: oh, right
<daf> spiv: cool :)
<ddaa> Just "tla changelog rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0"
<carlos> daf: new files:
<carlos>      database/schema/.arch-ids/patch-1-07-0.sql.id
<carlos>      database/schema/patch-1-07-0.sql
<carlos>     modified files:
<carlos>      database/schema/launchpad-1-0-0.sql
<carlos>      lib/canonical/arch/infoImporter.py
<carlos>      lib/canonical/soyuz/browser.py
<daf> I guess I should have RTFW'd
<carlos> from lifeless
<carlos> daf: it's easier, to use the arch commits mailing list with grep :-P
<daf> heh :)
<ddaa> Well... if it's from the db nazi, it's probably legit...
<spiv> Heh.  The same merge that put a syntax error in infoImporter... lifeless must've been having a bad day.
<cprov> heh, now let him sleep in peace for a better day tomorrow :)
<ddaa> Yup. He's been ill today... see his activity report.
* ddaa is out to help for dinner
* carlos thinks about what "fuel" will buy for this long night...
* carlos goes away for a while
<carlos> SteveA: how could I execute the unittest at: launchpad/lib/canonical/lp/placelessauth/tests
<carlos> ?
<carlos> they don't have a main and make check at launchpad/lib/canonical does nothing
<daf> carlos: ../../../test.py -u canonical.lp.placelessauth
<daf> (I think)
<carlos> let me check...
<carlos> Running UNIT tests from /home/carlos/Work/dists/launchpad/lib/canonical/lp/placelessauth/tests
<carlos> No unit tests to be run.
<daf> hmmmm
<daf> is there an __init__.py?
<carlos> yes
<carlos> carlos@frodo ~/Work/launchpad/lib/canonical/lp/placelessauth/tests $ ../../../../../test.py -u canonical.lp.placelessauth.tests
<carlos> that fails and also without the .tests
<daf> I think the the test.py script has a debugging flag
<carlos> ok, I will investigate it. Thank you
<spiv> $ PYTHONPATH=../../.. ../../../../test.py -l .
<daf> https://www.warthogs.hbd.com/LaunchpadTestRunner
<spiv> That seems to wfm from the lib/canonical/lp/placelessauth dir.
<spiv> Except I don't have the db the test needs.
<spiv> But it actually tries to run the test :)
<carlos> spiv: from which directory?
<spiv> (Well, the 12 unit tests pass, it's the functional ones that don't)
<daf> hmm, unit tests shouldn't need the database
<carlos> ok
<daf> carlos: the directory you're in shuold not matter
<daf> spiv: oh, right
<daf> spiv: thanks
<carlos> sorry  I didn't saw the dir comment :-P
<spiv> :)
<daf> it's generally useful to export PYTHONPATH=path/to/launchpad
<daf> that way, you can do
<carlos> spiv: perfect, thanks
<daf> python
<carlos> daf: I have it done
<daf> >>> import canonical.rosetta.browser
<daf> and things like that
<spiv> carlos: No worries.
<daf> justdave: I was hoping that bugs would change colour on the pretty graph when they changed from resolved -> close :)
<daf> *closed
* carlos graphs addict
<carlos> limi: bugzilla needs some love from you :-)
<daf> :D
<justdave> hmm, they probably could.  right now it only distinguishes between open and non-open
<daf> I love the dependency graphs
<justdave> that's an easy thing to fix, there's a little table mapping states to colors in the graph code
<justdave> what would you like? :)
<daf> I'll have to file a wishlist bug against malone asking for pretty graphs
<daf> ooh, I don't know
<daf> a soothing blue, perhaps? :)
<carlos> :-P
* carlos goes to get some traditional food for a long night, Burger King's fast food
<carlos> see you later
<daf> https://bugzilla.warthogs.hbd.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1967
<justdave> daf: the blue is in, how's it look?
<justdave> (too dark if you ask me ;)
<daf> ooh
<daf> yeah, it is a bit dark
<carlos> perhaps we could use a sky blue for the fixes and move the current grey to the closed...
<daf> carlos: yeah, we could do
<justdave> ok, back from picking up Brendan at the bus stop
<justdave> lightblue/gray swap done, how's it look now
<carlos> looks better now
<carlos> :-)
<daf> justdave: looks great! :)
<SteveA> daf: have you spoken to elmo about proxy config on rosetta.w.h.c ?
<daf> SteveA: I emailed him again
<SteveA> ok, so nothing actually sorted yet
<daf> no
<daf> since he's around on IRC, I'll ask him now
<SteveA> can you get basic auth turned off on the devel. server?
<SteveA> we *might* want to turn it back on later, when we have cookie-based auth
<daf> no, I don't have the permissions to do that
<carlos> daf: I did an initial commit with the login/name change form
<carlos> daf: I need to update sample data so we have a default password
<daf> carlos: cool!
<carlos> daf: any prefered password?
<daf> right, I see
<carlos> test
<carlos> ?
<daf> yes, that will suffice
<carlos> ok
<carlos> I will put it for you, lalo and me
<carlos> I need to add feedback about errors when changing data from the form
<carlos> but if you don't make any mistake, it should work
<kiko> daf, have a minute?
#launchpad 2004-09-26
<daf> kiko: sure
!lilo:*! Hi all. If you're interested in tracking, discussing, political coordination, regarding the U.S. INDUCE act, designed to outlaw technology which can be used to circumvent entertainment industry licensing, please feel free to stop by ##induce .... thanks!
<kiko> daf, we're in need of some quality rosetta time with someone in the know, and I'm thinking it could be you.
<kiko> do you have a couple of hours to commit this week to us?
<daf> I might be able to do that on Thursday or Friday
<daf> what can I help you with?
<kiko> getting rosetta data displayed in soyuz, basically.
<kiko> translations for certain packages.
<kiko> is that feasible?
<daf> can you give me more details? :)
<daf> you're thinking of integration between soyuz and Rosetta?
<kiko> right. getting something like open translations for release X, and for package Y?
<daf> sure, spending some time thinking about that would be good
<daf> I'm not 100% sure I'll have some time this week for that, but I'm certainly happy to do it
<kiko> we're partially blocked on that
<daf> in that case, how about we allocate an hour to talk about it on Thursday, with a follow-up meeting on Friday if needed?
<carlos> daf: please, could you recreate the database at rosetta server?
<daf> carlos: sure
<kiko> two hours, I think, would be required just for talking :)
<carlos> daf: thanks
<daf> carlos: done
<daf> kiko: ok, let's do that then :)
<carlos> daf: :-?
<carlos> daf: https://rosetta.warthogs.hbd.com/++skin++Debug/rosetta/prefs
<kiko> cprov, debonzi: daf's on for thursday for our rosetta-mini-sprint. 
<kiko> cprov, debonzi, daf: what's the good time.
<carlos> daf: it works here...
<daf> carlos: interesting
<daf> carlos: looks like some sample data is missing
<carlos> your name :-)
<daf> :)
<cprov> kiko: I'm  online every time , better ask daf 
<kiko> daf, what's the good time?
<carlos> kiko,cprov: what time is it there?
<daf> kiko: sometime during the afternoon, I think
<daf> kiko: i.e. after the rosetta daily meeting and lunch
<cprov> carlos: 19 PM
<carlos> cprov: thanks
<daf> carlos: TZ=America/Sao_Paulo date
<carlos> daf: thanks
<cprov> daf: when will be in UTC ? 
* cprov is lost on TZs
<daf> I suggest 3pm UTC
<daf> i.e. 11am for you guys
<daf> er, no
<daf> 12pm for you guys
<carlos> 12pm?
<cprov> daf:  you can kill us :)
<carlos> daf: I don't think so
<carlos> :-)
<carlos> hmm
* carlos sucks
<carlos> :-P
<daf> cprov: is that too early for you? :)
<cprov> daf:  nop, exaclty the opposite, 1/2 hour earlier maybe ? 
<daf> :D
<daf> by 12pm, I mean 12:00, by the way
<daf> not 00:00
<cprov> daf: of course :)
<daf> just checking :)
<daf> ok, what time would you like?
<daf> I'm usually around in the evenings
<cprov> daf: let's do in that way: 12pm UTC thursday as you said or earlier if possible, ok ?
<daf> we could make it 11am UTC if that suits you better
<cprov> daf: not much ... is 12 UTC nice for you too ?
<cprov> daf: I think 40 minutes will be more than enough 
<daf> actually, the Rosetta team meeting is at 12:00 UTC
<daf> oops
<kiko> cprov, I don't think 40 minutes is enough, really.
<cprov> kiko: how much do you think ?
<daf> and the meeting will last somewhere around 30m-1h, and I generally have lunch after that so...
<carlos> daf: if it's needed, we could move it
<cprov> kiko: we just need a set of stocked queries AFAIK
<kiko> I think 2h, cprov. there's a lot up in the air
<daf> we *could* make it 10:00 UTC, which is 7am for you guys :)
<daf> carlos: that is true
<cprov> daf:  uhm, kiko cannot wake so early :)
<daf> :D
<kiko> it breaks my legs
<daf> that's funny -- my knees hurt when I've been awake too long
<cprov> daf:  make it easier, just say when you have 2h free
<daf> ok
<daf> any time from about 14:00 UTC would be fine
<carlos> X-)
<daf> carlos: ok, Rosetta seems to be working now
* debonzi is lost in the time
<carlos> daf: where was the problem?
<daf> carlos: dunno, I just restarted the server ;)
<carlos> :-P
<cprov> kiko: debonzi : 14 UTC is ok for you ? just have lunch and talk :) ok ?
<kiko> it's 11am here, okay by me.
<cprov> daf:  then ok, thursday 14 UTC 
<daf> cprov: ok!
<debonzi> cprov, for me is ok..
<cprov> daf: thanks 
<daf> cprov: de nada :)
<cprov> daf:  just to warn, if you can think in stocked queries to show relevant information from rosetta in soyuz, let me know .
<daf> cprov: you might be able to use existing Rosetta interfaces for some things
<cprov> daf: I will send an email to launchpad explaning better wishes. 
<daf> I'm worried about this "idea" of releases -- Rosetta doesn't really pay attention to those
<daf> ok, that sounds good
<cprov> daf: yep
<kiko> daf, as long as translations are tied to certain source packages (and source package versions?)
<kiko> daf, we're okay.
<daf> um...
<cprov> daf: carlos see you later
<carlos> cprov: later!
<daf> cprov: later
<kiko> daf, um what? :)
<daf> well
<daf> translations are tied to templates are tied to products are tied to projects
<daf> Rosetta knows nothing about source packages
<daf> (yet)
<kiko> products are tied to source packages, I believe, no?
* debonzi goes dinner
<daf> carlos: the form looks really good
<carlos> daf: stolen from bugzilla
<carlos> but It seems like it's not working
<carlos> :-(
<carlos> doing some local tests now
<carlos> daf: are you sure you have latest db schema?
<carlos> daf: it works in my laptop
<carlos> but If I try to change your name with the password 'test' it does not change anything
<daf> hmm
<daf> let me try reloading it again
<daf> ok, done
<carlos> perfect
<carlos> daf: your name now it's Dafydd2
<carlos> :-)
<daf> heh :)
<carlos> daf: do you want wishlist bugs into our bugzilla?
<daf> carlos: yes
<carlos> ok
<daf> I filed one against Malone today
<kiko> hey stub, have some minutes free?
<stub> Sure
<kiko> stub, us soyuz lowlives are looking into getting some malone data presented in soyuz.
<kiko> stub, do you think you could put some time down this week for sorting the issues out with us?
<stub> I can spare a little time - I'm still at my old work this week.
<kiko> we'd need a solid 1h something, and the timezone scheduling means it's not trivial to fit in.
<kiko> can you say what time is best? perhaps friday?
<stub> whenever - pick a time. sooner is fine by me.
<stub> (as long as I am awake ;) )
<carlos> daf: 4 bugs left (without counting steve's ones)
<kiko> stub, what is a good time UTC for you?
<carlos> daf: hey, lalo is alive!!
<stub> Now until Now + 12 hours is good for me
<carlos> spiv: ping?
<carlos> daf: I'm getting this error:
<carlos> TypeError: DBProject() did not get expected keyword argument datecreated
<carlos> daf: datecreated has a default value, and I want to use it
<carlos> I mean.... the Project table has a default value for the field datecreated
<carlos> and I want to use it, but the SQLObject does not let me to do it
<stub> carlos: Do you mean you want to use the default datecreated defined in the database, or the default datecreated defined in the SQLObject subclass?
<carlos> stub: the one defined in the database
<carlos> I didn't know that sqlobject could define a default value
<carlos> what's the best option?
<stub> Then you have to set 'required=False' in the SQLObject subclass, so it lets it be uninitialized.
<carlos> ok
<stub> SQLObject defaults don't work for datetimes, since it sets the default when the module is loaded (ie. it is not calculated).
<stub> This needs to be fixed - there is some discussion on the SQLObject mailing list about this
<carlos> TypeError: __init__() got an unexpected keyword argument 'required'
<carlos> DateTimeCol('datecreated', notNull=True, required=False),
<stub> Sorry - notNull=False 
* carlos reading sqlobject documentation..
<carlos> stub: that does not works
<stub> DateTimeCol('datecreated', notNull=False, default=None)
<carlos> I tried the notNull=False option.
<carlos> btw, it should be notNull=True
<carlos> hmm
<carlos> If I do an insert
<carlos> with datetime=NULL
<carlos>  will be used the default value?
<stub> Yes
<carlos> ok
<stub> (default = None, as python None == SQL NULL
<carlos> stub: I know, It's just that I thougt that the default value is only used if you don't specify a value for that field
<carlos> ok, no more errors about it. Thanks
<stub> Err... you are right. Might be SQLObject magic that makes it work then... possibly by accident.
<carlos> I'm not able to do the insert, so perhaps it fails when it commits it into the database (I have other errors)
<carlos> I mean, that I didn't tested it 100%
<stub> Can you please add a bug to bugzilla? We have an SQLObject developer starting soon who should be able to fix this properly and feed it back upstream.
<stub> If it doesn't work, you need to pass 'datecreated=datetime.utcnow()' as an argument when creating the object (which is what Malone is doing to avoid this problem).
<carlos> stub: what should I specify in the bug report?
<stub> (so hopefully the clocks on the app servers are in sync 'good enough')
* carlos don't knows exactly where is the problem
<stub> 'SQLObject needs to use the DEFAULT value for a column as defined in the database'
<carlos> ok
<stub> I think the correct syntax should be something like DateTimeCol('datecreated', notNull=True, default=SQLObject.DEFAULT)
<stub> But the SQLObject developers should probably agree on the syntax before I hack it up myself ;)
<carlos> hmm, I get this error after fixing all bugs I found:
<carlos> ValueError: Unknown SQL builtin type: <class 'canonical.rosetta.sql.RosettaPerson'> for <RosettaPerson at 0x30703370>
<stub> That would be the value for the 'person' foreign key
<stub> Is RosettaPerson an SQLObject subclass? Or do you need to adapt it to a database.foaf.Person ?
<carlos> RosettaPerson represents the Person table
<carlos> I fixed it, don't worry
<carlos> but as you said, the sqlobjects fails
<carlos> psycopg.IntegrityError: ERROR:  null value in column "datecreated" violates not-null constraint
<stub> :-P
<stub> Have to do it the malone way for the time being - flag it with a TODO 
<carlos> I will fix it the way you told me for now
<carlos> sure
<carlos> stub: should we have a sqlobject component inside launchpad?
<stub> carlos: I don't follow you
<carlos> stub: or should the bug report be filed against launchpad?
<carlos> stub: to file the bug we talked about some minutes ago
<carlos> at bugzilla
<carlos> (sorry, it's too late here to think in a verbose mode :-P)
<stub> oh - we should have a component for it - not sure what the best is.
<carlos> I don't see anyone now
<stub> Maybe a database product, with components sqlobject, sqlos, schema, psycopg? I don't know if it is launchpad specific.
<carlos> justdave: could we have it added ?
<stub> Just stick it anywhere and assign it to me so it doesn't get lost :-)
<carlos> stub: at this time it's only used by launchpad
<carlos> stub: ok, I will file it against launchpad, is it right for you?
<stub> sure
<carlos> ok
<justdave> which, the new product with those 4 components in it?
<carlos> justdave: not sure, stub?
<stub> I think a 'database' component for launchpad might be best, with me as the owner.
<stub> (stuart@stuartbishop.net is still my bugzilla id)
<justdave> ok, done.
<carlos> justdave: thanks
<stub> carlos: I don't know if you want Bug1965 to depend on 1968 if you have a working workaround. If the work around is good enough, Bug1968 won't be looked at until the soyuz sprint at the earliest.
<carlos> well, we could move it for later 
<carlos> when we look at beta remaining bugs 
<stub> np
<carlos> the alpha is for tomorrow
<carlos> I suppose the beta will be for the end of the month or something like that
<carlos> is a way to have it present when fixing bugs in rosetta
<kiko> stub, I'm going to propose 11am UTC on friday, which is like 8am here. how does that sound?
<stub> Fine here
<kiko> wonderful. emails will go out to launchpad confirming ;)
<kiko> lifeless, yo?
<lifeless> ?
<kiko> how goes it?
<lifeless> frenetic, as usual :}. You ?
<kiko> lifeless, at least as mad as you. 
<lifeless> whats this alpha/beta thing I'm hearing about?
<kiko> did you get cprov's request (and made heads or tails out of it)?
<kiko> lifeless, alpha release of rosetta tomorrow, which means launchpad alpha in a way, right?
<lifeless> launchpad is in production already on macquarie
<lifeless> :)
<carlos> lifeless: two bugs left from the rosetta team and I'm starting importing data into the DB
<lifeless> https://macquarie.warthogs.hbd.com/launchpad/
<kiko> hah.
<kiko> and on rosetta, right :)
<lifeless> carlos: into emperor ?
<carlos> lifeless: in my laptop
<lifeless> arh. right.
<carlos> I need to automate the import task
<lifeless> kiko: I got cprov's request yes, and both stuart and I have answered.
<carlos> when that's done, we will move it into a real server
<kiko> lifeless, stub: thanx
<stub> kiko: Patch was just accepted a  few seconds ago
<lifeless> carlos: cool, be sure to test with an extract of the live data, you don't want to overwrite anything or stuff
<carlos> lifeless: we will not work with the production database for the alpha release
<lifeless> oh, so its a proof-of-concept period.. K.
<carlos> yes
<lifeless> stub: what do you think about doing a new production drop on tuesday ?
<stub> Fine by me
<lifeless> ok. who do we need involved? I have access to the launchpad on macquarie, you ahve the db.
<carlos> stub: are you the "db nazi" again?
<lifeless> carlos: not till monday
<lifeless> (not that nazi's ever really let go)
<carlos> ok, I have some pending changes to send
<carlos> I will send them later
<carlos> kiko: rosetta's products will be mapped to source packages, I'm not sure if we have a full relation with the source table, but It makes no sense to use binary packages with it
<carlos> because several binary packages will use the same translation source
<carlos> I need a break. See you in about 30 minutes
<kiko> carlos, hey, answer my email with more gems like that and I'll send you some vintage brazilian coffee on the next sprint
<carlos> :-D
<kiko> must.. sleep... soon..
<kiko> my new house doesn't even have a friggin shower yet and I'm at midnight at the office.
<carlos> kiko: it's too early to go to sleep :-D
<kiko> this has got to change.
<carlos> here it's 5:00AM
<kiko> here it's *sleeptime* :)
<limi> morning all
<carlos> limi: hi
<limi> carlos :)
<carlos> limi: ready for the count down?
<limi> yup
<carlos> well, as I said, time to take a shower 
<carlos> later
<SteveA> lulu: I just checked out http://ubuntulinux.org/  Is someone going to produce a favicon.ico file to replace the plone logo?
<lulu> that's a good point! I'll ask Limi
<limi> SteveA: we lack an Ubuntu icon
<SteveA> better not to have one than to have the wrong one
<lulu> elmo's asking for someone to do it
<SteveA> rosetta.ubuntulinux.org is listening on the https port
<SteveA> but it is not listening on the http port
<carlos> SteveA: ask elmo_mf
<SteveA> I guess we can run rosetta over https.  It isn't a big deal, and means we don't need to worry about redirecting people to use HTTPS when they need to be authenticated with a password.
<carlos> SteveA: we need something at http post alpha or people will have troubles to find rosetta (by default all people opens http instead of https)
<elmo_mf> SteveA: ?
<SteveA> hello elmo
<elmo_mf> what's up?
<elmo_mf> I did that rosetta thing you asked for last night?
<SteveA> now I have to remember exactly what I asked for ;-)
<elmo_mf> the rosetta.ubuntulinux.org, going to :9010 on rosetta
<carlos> X-)
<elmo_mf> so you can run a second launchpad invocation for alpha?
<SteveA> yes
<elmo_mf> ok.. lu said you wanted me tho - was there anything else?
<SteveA> rosetta.ubuntulinux.org is listening on https
<SteveA> but not https
<SteveA> but not http
<SteveA> (Rather)
<elmo_mf> oh, yes, I asked daf and he told me to do that
<SteveA> oh, ok
<elmo_mf> do you want me to a) switch them, or b) make http available but redirect to https ?
<elmo_mf> (or c, make both available - seems least good alternative tho)
<SteveA> making http available but redirecting to https would be neat
<elmo_mf> ok
<SteveA> and probably save us a bunch of email saying "use https"
<elmo_mf> right, I'll do that in a bit
<SteveA> thanks!
<SteveA> now I just have to wait for daf to get in (after his late night closing rosetta bugs last night), to get everything working
<elmo_mf> daf was up pretty late...
<carlos> SteveA: I don't think he will wake up early, I think he went to bed about at 5:00AM
<carlos> no, at 6:30
<SteveA> I hope he's up for the launchpad meeting later today
<carlos> the meeting is "late" so I don't think it will be a problem
<SteveA> do you think we'll be able to turn on rosetta today?
* SteveA goes to find some food
<carlos> SteveA: I'm working on a script to import the .po/.pot from an XML defining the projects, trying to figure a way to automatize it 
<SteveA> cool
<carlos> SteveA: rosetta is ready (should be)
<carlos> if it's needed we could import the files by hand
<SteveA> is there anything you need help with on the script?
<carlos> perhaps some ideas about the way to solve the problem will be welcomed
<carlos> because I'm not completely sure I'm handling the best way I should
<SteveA> ok, let's talk about it when I've come back from the cafe
<carlos> ok, thanks
<elmo_mf> steve: http's there now, redirecting
<elmo_mf> only for r.ul.o / r.u.c tho, r.w.h.c just gives you an empty page - I guess that's a feature as we don't want joe random seeing the dev dev version
<daf> SteveA: hi
<carlos> daf: hey, you are alive!!!
<carlos> :-D
<daf> :)
<carlos> daf: I think we will need to import the projects/products by hand
<carlos> I'm having hard problems with the script
<sabdfl> carlos: yes, projects and products will need to be done by hand, lifeless has started already because of arch syncing
<sabdfl> please discuss a wiki page with him where we can finetune them
<sabdfl> and include some review
<carlos> sabdfl: we are working with tar.gz for the alpha
<sabdfl> once i've signed off on the project / product names, they can be put into the database
<carlos> because we don't have the needed modules in arch yet
<sabdfl> yes, i'm just talking about getting the project / product names into the db
<sabdfl> then you attache the POT to the product, right?
<carlos> sabdfl: I thought that we should import all ubuntu packages now
<carlos> right
<sabdfl> one at a time, by hand
<carlos> based on arch for the alpha?
<daf> hmm, I think if we can't import all packages in an automated fashion, doing it by hand will take a very long time
<carlos> daf: I was working tonight in a kind of xml so we only "import" it by hand one time and future updates will be automatic, but it could still fail
<carlos> where import is write some info we need to get by hand and then let a script execute it over an onver again
<carlos> but I'm not sure it's a good approach
<carlos> waiting for SteveA to talk about it
<daf> hmm, that's an idea
<carlos> daf: could we talk about it now 
<carlos> if we should do it by hand I think we should start as soon as possible...
<daf> let's wait for Steve
<carlos> ok
<SteveA> I wonder whether we should decide on a canonical address for rosetta.ubuntusomething, and have everything else redirect to there.
<SteveA> daf, carlos: let's talk about importing stuff
<carlos> ok
<daf> right
<SteveA> so, let's set the scene
* carlos uploading the xml ..
<SteveA> what raw materials do we have?
<carlos> SteveA: at this moment we have the list of packages from wiki or from apt source
<carlos> http://gollum.pemas.net/~carlos/import-ubuntu.xml.txt
<carlos> the apt source let's us to fill some fields automatically
<SteveA> did you come up with the xml pattern?
<carlos> sorry, I don't understand what do you mean. xml pattern? 
<SteveA> the DTD
<SteveA> that particular xml format
<carlos> SteveA: no, I don't have the DTD wrote
<SteveA> I recommend you don't write a DTD
<SteveA> but, what I mean is, did you come up with this XML schema?
<SteveA> with this xml file format
<daf> i.e. did you invent the structure of the XML?
<SteveA> thanks daf :-)
<carlos> yes
<carlos> :-)
<carlos> based on the database fields
<SteveA> cool
<SteveA>       <command>./debian/rules common-configure-indep && cd po && intltool-update -P && cd ..</command>
<SteveA> why is there a 'cd ..' at the end/
<SteveA> ?
<SteveA> also, note that && isn't valid xml
<carlos> to come back to the default dir
<carlos> hmm, right
<SteveA> it needs to be &amp;&amp;
<SteveA> the processor for this should ensure that each command starts in the appropriate directory
<SteveA> it shouldn't expect the <command> to clean up
<elmo_mf> btw, what the heck is that common-configure-indep thing? is that a cdbs/gnome thing?
<carlos> I execute a cd po and I undo it later, that's all
<carlos> elmo_mf: cdbs
<carlos> I don't need to build the package, only to configure it
<SteveA> if every command is always '&&' after the last one, we could also represent the commands each on a new line
<SteveA> this might make it easier to maintain / diff from
<carlos> with serveral <command> tags or inside the same tag?
<SteveA> no, just new lines
<carlos>  /s/serveral/several/
<SteveA> so:
<SteveA> <command>
<SteveA> ./debian/rules common-configure-indep
<SteveA> cd po
<SteveA> intltool-update -P
<SteveA> cd ..
<SteveA> </command>
<carlos> ok
<SteveA> maybe call it <commandscript> instead, or something like that
<carlos> ok
<daf> if you run the command inside its own shell, you don't have to worry about the "cd .."
<SteveA> so, we have a list of packages, and we want a filled-in XML file that looks like carlos's file, right?
<carlos> or perhaps with pushd popd...
<carlos> the projects fields should be handled by hand
<SteveA> these are important implementation details, but let's discuss what we actually need to do overall
<carlos> ok
<SteveA> carlos: did you fill in this xml file by hand?
<carlos> yes
<SteveA> do you think it is straightforward to write a tool that reads in the XML, and imports the packages?
<SteveA> (I'm trying to find out what part you want help with)
<carlos> yes, it should be easy when the xml is filled completely
<daf> SteveA: the difficult part is writing the XML file, I think
<SteveA> ok
<carlos> yes, that's the problem
<daf> after all, that should be the only non-automated part
<carlos> every package should be handled by hand
<SteveA> well... we can get a lot of information from the .deb can't we?
<carlos> SteveA: yes
<SteveA> what information can we easily get from a .deb?
<carlos> the "hard" part is the commandscript commands
<daf> right, so we need another script to generate a version of the XML which is then fixed up by hand?
<SteveA> all the ones in your file are the same.
<carlos> name, short description and description have a direct mapping
<carlos> daf: yes
<SteveA> So, we can start by trying that script, and seeing if it works.
<SteveA> Will it be apparrent if it doesn't work properly?
<carlos> apparrent?
<SteveA> It will be obvious if no .pot file is there
<SteveA> apparent
<SteveA> um, obvious
<SteveA> but what about if there are several .pot files?
<carlos> we could easily do some basic checks
<SteveA> so, what about having a step where you run find to locate .pot files?
<carlos> potemplate
<carlos> SteveA: I have some code to do it in C
<SteveA> to do what?
<carlos> from a the GNOME status pages
<carlos> to detect po directories
<SteveA> ok
<carlos> so it's easy to port it to python
<SteveA> does it work for other projects than gnome?
<carlos> yes
<SteveA> great
<carlos> the detection does not depends on any GNOME specific
<carlos> feature
<SteveA> what we should aim for is going through the names of packages.  Get the .debs.  See if it fits something we can automate.  If so, import it.  If not, log that somewhere to be done manually.
<SteveA> does that sound reasonable?
<daf> yes, an "if not len(pot_files) == 1" should work
<carlos> yes, that's a start
<daf> sabdfl: I'm a bit confused -- will the Rosetta alpha have all the Ubuntu packages in it or not?
<SteveA> I don't understand what you just asked, daf
<carlos> but we should review later all packages because we need to apply the debian/ubuntu patches to get all strings
<SteveA> we would like the rosetta alpha to have lots of packages in it
<SteveA> we should aim for the low-hanging fruit first
<SteveA> that is, those we can easily automate
<carlos> ok
<daf> we would like that, but I would like the team to concentrate on development if importing all the packages is going to be a significant task
<daf> SteveA: eventually, we want Rosetta to have all the information needed to translate all of Ubuntu
<daf> SteveA: I'm asking Mark how soon we want to have all that information
<SteveA> the important thing right now is to get rosetta used by some of our target audience, while at the same time doing something useful for ubuntu
<SteveA> so, if we can get 70% of the ubuntu packages in there, the 70% that go all the same, then that's great
<daf> ok, the question is the extent to which we shuold spend time on the "doing something useful for Ubuntu" part
<SteveA> let's try to come up with a reasonable estimate of what it would take
<SteveA> then we can make an informed decision as to what to do
<carlos> ok
<SteveA> and, we can keep it as simple as possible
<SteveA> so, let's agree on our goals
<SteveA> I'll propose some
<SteveA> * get enough data into rosetta alpha so that it can be well tested by early adopters
<SteveA> * get some ubuntu packages translated
<SteveA> anything else?
<carlos> I don't think wee need more goals for the alpha
<carlos> makes sense for me
<SteveA> well, the point of these goals is so that we know what things we have to balance against each other
<daf> yes, those are good goals
<SteveA> another goal would be to get it done pretty soon
<daf> there are other goals:
<daf> * fix bugs in the alpha
<daf> * start closing beta-critical bugs
<carlos> but those goals are to release the beta
<daf> carlos: yes, but if we spend lots of time on goals 1 and 2, we can't work on goals 3 and 4
<carlos> I don't think we shouls expend more than some days for the 1 and 2
<carlos>  /s/shouls/should/
<SteveA> ok, let's think about what's involved in importing packages
<SteveA> our plan should be to import packages that come easily
<SteveA> and to leave those that are more difficult
<SteveA> until later
<SteveA> right?
* SteveA waits for a response
<carlos> yes
<daf> yes
<SteveA> carlos: do you already have code that uses your xml file to import stuff into rosetta?
<carlos> not yet, but I have a script that I think could be adapted easily
<SteveA> how much time would it take to complete the task "have software that takes an xml file of package data, and imports each one into rosetta" ?
<carlos> SteveA: one thing... I'm forgeting about the branch field in our database. We don't expose it in the UI and I don't think we should care about it until beta
<carlos> SteveA: about 1 hour
<SteveA> daf: do you agree with carlos' estimate?
<daf> SteveA: I would estimate 2 hours at least
<SteveA> so, let's allow 3 hours
<carlos> :-)
<SteveA> 1+2 = 3 ;-)
<SteveA> Is the XML schema complete?  does it need any more work?
<SteveA> Well, the command part needs a little work, but we already discussed that.
<SteveA> Actually, I want to ask about that.
<carlos> SteveA: if we can forget about the branches (not needed until we start with arch)
<carlos> yes, I think it's completed
<SteveA> each of the commands in the example file is exactly the same
<SteveA> so, do we need to list the commands there?
<carlos> SteveA: because all packages use cdbs
<SteveA> can we just say <standard-import-commands />
<carlos> but that will not work always, if we have a way to use a custom command, it's ok for me
<daf> or, we could identify commands by name
<SteveA> will it work in a lot of cases?
<carlos> yes
<SteveA> then, let's do that for now
<carlos> almost all GNOME packages should work
<daf> each package would have a <command> or <named-command name="cdbs" />
<SteveA> it makes your task easier
<carlos> daf: makes sense
<carlos> SteveA: ok
<SteveA> don't over-design it now
<SteveA> we want to get many packages imported
<daf> I think the redundancy is very much due to the packages carlos has chosen
<carlos> daf: the most importants ones are gnome packages
<SteveA> so, what %age or how many packages, can we get using this?
<daf> carlos: right
* carlos follows the list Mark sent
<SteveA> ok
<SteveA> I think that's good enough for now
<daf> also, it seems like Mozilla and OO might be feasible to do
<SteveA> we can improve and generalize the system once we have those important gnome packages imported
<carlos> yes, and that's cool :-)
<SteveA> but do not work on the general case now
<daf> no, you're right
<SteveA> so, we can just have a <cdbs-import /> element
<SteveA> and this means "do the standard cdbs import"
<SteveA> and later on, we'll have other imports, one of which may involve ad-hoc commands
<daf> this is starting to sound like jhbuild
<daf> are you familiar with that, Steve?
<carlos> ok, so will we forget also the multiple .pot packages, right?
<SteveA> what is that?
<SteveA> for now, yes
<SteveA> although we may still want to check for that
<daf> it's a tool James Henstridge wrote, originally to build GNOME from CVS
<daf> it became more general after that
<daf> it has a list of all the packages as XML
<SteveA> will a simple find name="*.pot" be good enough to check that we have just one pot file?
<daf> and it knows how to fetch and build each one
<daf> SteveA: no
<daf> touch foo.pot
<daf> touch bar.pot
<daf> name="*.pot"
<SteveA> so?
<daf> echo name  # ==> "foo.pot bar.pot"
<SteveA> find will find that, and will reject that package
<SteveA> works for me
<SteveA> we want the simplest thing that will work for some of the important packages
<SteveA> if we reject too many to start with, that's ok
<carlos> it's ok for me
<daf> sorry, I think I misunderstood you
<daf> if we make a list of all the files which match *.pot, then that will work for most cases
<SteveA> want me to try to explain better?
<daf> we can just check that exactly 1 file has been foudn
<daf> found
<daf> for a couple of GNOME packages, there will be multiple .pot files
<SteveA> I'm proposing that we look for all files inside a .deb that end in .pot.  If there is more than one of these, we reject this .deb for now
<daf> and if there is less than one?
<SteveA> we also reject it
<SteveA> but, the cdbs-import will fail anyway then
<daf> no, we can't use .debs
<SteveA> or, source packages
<daf> right, source packages
<SteveA> ok
<SteveA> read "source packages" for when I said "debs"
<daf> so, the algorithm should be:
<daf> run the update commands defined for this package
<daf> look for pot files
<daf> if the number of pot files != 1, then add this package to the list of failed ones and go to the next one
<daf> otherwise, import it
<daf> --
<daf> then, we can look at the list of ones which failed and deal with them individually later
<daf> gtk+ and gnome-applets will fail, because they will have 2 POT files
<SteveA> yes.
<carlos> ok
<SteveA> will cdbs import always work if there is just one pot file, like this?
<carlos> SteveA: yes, if it's not broken (like gnome-applets)
<carlos> well, bad example, gnome-applets has two pot files but it's also broken 
<carlos> but that's a corner case
<SteveA> how is it broken?
<daf> carlos: actually, in the case of gtk+/gnome-applets, it will only generate one POT file, right?
<SteveA> will we get an error condition from cdbs-import ?
<carlos> daf: yes, it's easy to do that, but it's an specific "hack"
<daf> carlos: since it only updates the po/ directory, and not po-locations or po-properties
<carlos> SteveA: yes, it should raise an execption
<carlos> SteveA: it misses some files needed to rebuild the .pot file
<carlos> daf: but if we reject any package with more than a .pot file, we will not know that
<daf> carlos: will not know what?
<carlos> daf: that the package will work with the standard cdbs-import
<SteveA> Ok, so here's what we need to do.  It will miss a lot of packages, but it won't fail silently:
<SteveA> * for each package name:
<SteveA>     - get the source package
<SteveA>     - run the update commands defined for this package
<SteveA>     - look for pot files
<SteveA>     - if the number of pot files == 1, import it
<SteveA>     - else add this package to the list of failed ones
<SteveA> 
<SteveA> agreed?
<daf> it might have false positives in some cases
<carlos> yes
<daf> but we know about the most important ones, I think
<SteveA> daf: do you mean that this plan might have "false positives" ?
<daf> SteveA: yes
<SteveA> what exactly do you mean?
<daf> i.e. it will fail to detect that a package intended to have two POT files because only one of them will be generated
<carlos> daf: the .pot files are always there
<carlos> come from the .tar.gz
<daf> they are?
<carlos> yes
<daf> oh, but not in CVS?
<carlos> the problem you are talking about will come when we move to arch
<carlos> daf: yes, that's it
<daf> right
<daf> SteveA: this plan is definitely good enough for now
<carlos> but the code I have does not checks for .pot files
<carlos> but for POTFILES.in
<carlos> that exists always
<carlos> so it's easy to "fix" later
<daf> great
<carlos> could we talk then about tasks?
<SteveA> yes
<SteveA> what tasks are needed to make the plan in software?
<SteveA> * for each package name:
<SteveA>     - get the source package
<SteveA>     - run the update commands defined for this package
<SteveA>     - look for pot files
<SteveA>     - if the number of pot files == 1, import it
<SteveA>     - else add this package to the list of failed ones
<carlos> 1.- Parse the list of packages and download them 
<carlos> wait
<carlos> it depens on the way we will handle this...
<carlos> specific scripts that does only one thing
<SteveA> what is the *simplest* way of handling this?
<carlos> or a global script that does all
<daf> what about packages for which we have no update commands defined?
* SteveA goes to answer door
<carlos> daf: will be rejected
<carlos> daf: as we talk, only cdbs packages will work in this phase
<daf> ok
<carlos> I think we should do several scripts/methods that do every point of the algorithm
<carlos> that way, when we move to arch is easier to change that part
<carlos> without break anything else
* SteveA decides to give up learning lithuanian.  The only people I get to talk to aren't interested in even *trying* to understand
<carlos> :-D
<daf> SteveA: that's a shame :(
<SteveA> it is sad, but I get further acting as an ignorant foreigner than in trying to speak the language
<SteveA> anyhow, back to imports
<daf> right
<SteveA> I think a script that takes an argument
<SteveA> the argument is a file containing a list of package names
<SteveA> the script gets the packages names into a python list
<SteveA> and instantiates a class PackageImporter for each item in the list
<SteveA> the class can live in the same module as the script
<carlos> and the class executes all steps?
<SteveA> the class can have a "runimport()" method
<SteveA> that method contains the workflow we described above
<SteveA>   def runimport(self):
<SteveA>       self.getSourcePackage(tmp_directory)
<SteveA>       self.runCdbsImport()
<SteveA>       self.lookForPotFiles()
<SteveA>         num_pots = self.findPotFiles()
<SteveA> (rather)
<SteveA>       if num_pots == 1:
<daf> perhaps "class CDBSPackageImporter(PackageImporter):"?
<SteveA>           self.importIntoDB()
<carlos> SteveA: what happens when we move to arch? or when we import other packages that are not using cdbs?
<SteveA> daf: we have only CDBS now.  Don't Generalize Now.
<carlos> we should use different classes that implements the same interface
<SteveA> but, by all means call it CDBSPAckageImporter
<carlos> SteveA: ok
<daf> SteveA: what values of "now" is this?
<SteveA> we don't need to generalize now, in order to meet our goals
<daf> what about Mozilla?
<SteveA> we will generalize when we need to do meet our goals
<SteveA> we can get all the packages that work with this algorithm, and get them working, and then work on any that need more special treatment
<SteveA> if mozilla is one of these, then we'll refactor the script / class when we come to do mozilla
<SteveA> but not before
<SteveA> we need to keep it as simple as possible right now
<SteveA> write the script however you want to. the class I sketched is only a suggestion.
<carlos> ok
<SteveA> but, do only what is needed to meet our goal of making this one import command and one flow of control working
<daf> I think the timescale in which we will want to import non-CDBS projects is very short
<daf> i.e. today
<SteveA> that's ok
<SteveA> it is still important to get this simple thing working, before making it mre complex
<daf> ok
<SteveA> it is much easier and more reliable, and more fun, to modify something simple that exists into something more complex, rather than coming up with something complex to start with.
<SteveA> we want to make progress today.
<SteveA> if things take longer than planned, and we only get the simplest cases done, well, that's still good progress
<daf> concur
<SteveA> but, if we plan something complex, and get 90% of the way there, that's no tangible progress.
<SteveA> ok, we need to think about the individual tasks involved, and estimate this.
<daf> carlos: can you make it a task to write an importer + XML file that does maybe 6-12 packages?
<SteveA> that's more like a "story"
<daf> I suppose that's two tasks
<daf> right
<carlos> daf: sure
<SteveA> that's a specific goal
<SteveA> let's go through the workflow in detail.
<SteveA> 1. get the source package
<daf> so, one part is to write an importer that can import POT+PO files from CDBS source packages
<SteveA> we have the package name.
<SteveA> how to get the source pacakge?
<daf> right
<daf> apt-get source
<daf> so you need to have APT and the appropriate sources.list
<SteveA> we'll need to put it somewhere, right?
<carlos> we will use the name of the source package
<daf> yes
<SteveA> ok, est. time to write code that gets a source package, and unpacks it into a working directory, under the name of the source package ?
<carlos> if there is any way to do "apt-get source *" no more tha 15 minutes :-P
<carlos> but I don't think we have something like that
<SteveA> carlos and daf: if you both independently estimate this, we'll have a good idea of whether the estimate is accurate, and whether the task is well-defined
<SteveA> os.system
<carlos> * comes from a file that should be parsed
<daf> this is a trivial task, yes
<daf> estimate 5 minutes
<SteveA> ok, I'll mark it as 20 minutes
<carlos> wow
<carlos> grep SOMETHING Sources | apt-get source ?
<SteveA> 0. write script + class that reads in given file, and goes through each name in turn instantiating class and calling "run" method
<carlos> yes, it's trivial :-D
<SteveA> carlos: don't forget to deal with error conditions
<SteveA> estimate for 0
<SteveA> ?
<carlos> I don't think I will be able to do it in less than 20 minutes
<SteveA> for 0 ?
<carlos> yes
<SteveA> let's say 30 mins then
<SteveA> 2. run the update commands defined for thsi package
<carlos> SteveA: but perhaps daf is faster than me on it
* daf shrugs
<SteveA> carlos: 30 mins is fine.  The important thing is that we've thought through the problem, and committed to a reasonable estimate we can achieve
<carlos> ok
<SteveA> if you improve on the estimate, even better
<daf> carlos: you didn't have any sleep last night, right?
<carlos> daf: true
<carlos> daf: why, am I missing anything?
<SteveA> 2. run the update commands defined for this package.  Estimate for this, please
<carlos> hmm, perhaps it's better.. forgetting...
<carlos> If we already know how to do it
<carlos> no more than 10 minutes
<SteveA> I'm not sure what "run the update commands" means
<daf> carlos: no, just checking
<carlos> I think it's possible to do it in not more than 5 minutes
<carlos> SteveA: execute the commandscripts list
<SteveA> oh, okay
<SteveA> this involves checking for errors etc.
<carlos> hmm, right
<carlos> I always forget it :-( 30 minutes
<SteveA> if the commands return an sppropriate exit value, that's ok
<SteveA> otherwise, you need to parse the output, perhaps
<SteveA> let's give it in hour
<daf> carlos: yes, it's not very strict error checking
<daf> it's more or less "did this command script succeed or fail?"
<daf> it might be worth running command scripts in shells which have -e on
<SteveA> want to say 45 minutes?
<carlos> daf: I know, I did it already for the pwgen and the msgfmt to get .mo files
<daf> carlos: right
* SteveA waits for an answer on the 45 minutes suggestion
<carlos> for this concrete example using cdbs, no more than 30 minutes
<carlos> we already know what should be executed
<SteveA> 45 sounds good then.
<carlos> X-)
<SteveA> remembering that it is okay to be well ahead
<SteveA> ok, next
<SteveA> 3. look for pot files
<SteveA> sounds very easy to me
<SteveA> just a few lines of obvious python
<carlos> SteveA: using find as an external tool?
<SteveA> I'd do it in python, personally
<carlos> using find I could do it in about 15 minutes (I have all code in C already), with python I don't know how to "emulate" find
<daf> os.walk?
<SteveA> ok, spend 20 mins trying it in python.  If that gets nowhere, use find.
<SteveA> total time, 40 mins
<SteveA> and, you'll have learned how to do this in python :)
<carlos> :-)
<SteveA> 4. if the number of pot files == 1, import it
<SteveA> 30 secs for the first part
<carlos> daf: yes, seems like it's with os.walk (carlos saw the documentation)
<carlos> SteveA: right
<SteveA> for "import it" ?
<daf> I think this will more or less be a copy + paste of code from the import script
<carlos> for the == 1 :-)
<SteveA> can you make the import script into a library, and make the import script and this script use the same thing?
<carlos> right, it's only a matter of execute all scripts we have already to import it
<SteveA> or, call the import script?
<daf> hmm, could do
<SteveA> is the easies thing to call the import script?
<daf> the import script is fairly reusable
<SteveA> ok, then we'll call the import script
<SteveA> does it report error conditions well?
<daf> I mean, you can do "from poimport import PODBBBridge"
<SteveA> an estimate?
<daf> it mostly just raises exceptions when it fails
<daf> so the exit code should be correct
<SteveA> so...
<SteveA> an estimate?
<carlos> I think it should not be more than 30 minutes...
<carlos> but better, an hour
<carlos> because I'm thinking 
<carlos> that we should check if the project exists
<carlos> or the product
<carlos> and create them if they don't exists...
<carlos> we have the scripts to create them and we should integrate all to work together
<SteveA> daf, what do you think?
<SteveA> while daf is thinking, let's talk about the last task
<daf> if we have all the information needed to create projects and produts, an hour should be enough
<SteveA> and if you don't, reject it?
<carlos> SteveA: good question
<SteveA> 5. else, add this package to the list of failed ones
<carlos> we don't have it without manual changes
<carlos> the list of packages don't tell use the project
<carlos>  /s/use/us/
<SteveA> This needs us to write out a list of failed packages to some file, with reasons why they failed, perhaps
* daf -> phone
<carlos> SteveA: the problem is that we missed the point that we need to process the initial list of packages to discriminate them in different projects
<SteveA> what would a file look like that represents that?
<SteveA> mozilla-firebird    firebird
<SteveA> oops
<SteveA> into projects...
<SteveA> mozilla-firebird    mozilla
<SteveA> gnome-applets    gnome
<SteveA> etc. ?
<carlos> yes, that's a good example
<SteveA> so, we can have a task that is to go through the list of packages, and assign them to products, like this
<carlos> yes
* daf back
<SteveA> then, the import script can take this too, and make it into a mapping
<carlos> also, we need another task to collect the data for every project
<carlos> so we can create them
<SteveA> I meant "assign them to projects" above
<SteveA> ok.  We can do this in parallel with writing the import script.
<carlos> yes
<SteveA> maybe an xml or rfc822 file of projects, and a list mapping products to projects
<SteveA> how many products do we have?
<SteveA> how many projects?
<SteveA> I suppose we need to do this only for those products that can be imported easily
<SteveA> so, that might be only one project: gnome
<carlos> SteveA: then we need to execute first the download code
<SteveA> so, first job is to get the script written except for the "import" step
<carlos> try to detect the po files
<SteveA> and then look at what packages we can import
<carlos> and then make a list to associate then the projects for those products...
<SteveA> 
<SteveA> plan:
<SteveA> 1. write import script except for "import" step
<SteveA> 2. look at what packages we can import easily
<SteveA> 3. make list mapping package to project
<SteveA> 4. import data about each project
<SteveA> 5. finish import step (can be done in parallel with 3 and 4)
<SteveA> 6. import for real
<SteveA> 
<SteveA> how about that?
<carlos> makes sense for me
<daf> where does the data for 4 come from?
<SteveA> in the script, we can write out a file saying the status of each package:  package-name: IMPORTED  or  package-name: FAILED
<SteveA> then, we can look through the packages that imported okay, and map those to projects
<SteveA> daf: we enter the data about projects manually, once we know what projects we need
<carlos> daf: by hand
<SteveA> if there are just 3 or 4 projects, we can write SQL to do it, for example
<SteveA> if there are more, we should come up with an XML or RFC822 file that gets parsed to do it
<carlos> SteveA: we have it already in the xml I proposed
<SteveA> carlos: Okay.  We need to have the "projects" information as an input to the script that produces the XML file
<SteveA> so in that case, it must be in an XML or RFC822 file itself
<carlos> hmm
<carlos> SteveA: I prefer what daf said
<SteveA> daf said "where does the data for 4 come from"
<SteveA> what else did he say?
<carlos> write a script that modifies the same xml to append the products or potemplates
<carlos> some hours ago
<SteveA> oh, okay
<SteveA> yeah, we can do that
<daf> so, what data files do we have now?
<daf> one XML file containing package information, and one file which maps products to projects?
<SteveA> 
<SteveA> plan:
<SteveA> 1. write import script except for "import" step
<SteveA> 2. look at what packages we can import easily
<SteveA> 3. make list mapping package to project
<SteveA> 4. import data about each project
<SteveA> 5. finish import step (can be done in parallel with 3 and 4)
<carlos> daf: yes
<SteveA> 6. write script that puts project data into the xml
<SteveA> 7. write real xml
<SteveA> 8. modify with project data
<SteveA> 9. pass this to the thing that imports the xml into the database
<carlos> it's fine for me
<SteveA> 
<SteveA> * for each package name:  (read in from file of package names) 30 mins
<SteveA>     - get the source package.  20 mins
<SteveA>     - run the update commands defined for this package 
<SteveA>       (beware of error conditions) 45 mins
<SteveA>     - look for pot files  40 mins
<SteveA>     - if the number of pot files == 1, import it.  90 mins???
<SteveA>     - else add this package to the list of failed ones
<SteveA>       write out package: IMPORTED or package: FAIL.  20 mins
<SteveA> 
<SteveA> that's 245 minutes I think
<daf> 4 hours
<SteveA> 5 minutes
<daf> +
<SteveA> the script to write the xml into the database is 3 hours
<SteveA> and we still have to deal with project data, and write a script that reads in our xml file and modifies it, and writes it out
<SteveA> altogether, at least a person day-and-a-half
<carlos> I think we should import by hand some pot/po files so the alpha testing could begin today
<daf> yes
<SteveA> how many?
<carlos> with two or three projects could be enough so the alpha testers will be able to play with rosetta
<daf> yes
<carlos> sorry, products
<SteveA> someone should file bugs for the story "import products that have a simple pot file" (steps 1..9 above)
<carlos> SteveA: also, we need extra help from elmo
<SteveA> and "write script to automatically create rosetta xml from source packages" (* and - points above)
<SteveA> and "refine and document carlos' XML format"
<carlos> SteveA: we need a chroot with all possible packages installed from warty to be able to run the cbdb script
<SteveA> and "script to take carlos' xml file, and import the information into the database"
* carlos nevers remembers the correct name for cddb
<SteveA> carlos: can't we run this on a laptop?
<carlos> SteveA: I'm doing it
<SteveA> we just need to run it on some non-server machine 
<SteveA> and get the xml file onto the rosetta machine
<carlos> but at the end
<SteveA> non need to get elmo involved
<carlos> we need it on the server
<SteveA> why?
<carlos> to get the updated .pot files
<SteveA> when we get arch involved, then we will
<SteveA> I don't think we need this during the alpha
<carlos> with arch, we will not need it (or we should not)
<SteveA> ok, then we can do it on individuals' machines, and get the xml files onto the server
<daf> second thoughts:
<carlos> SteveA: and the .pot files will be uploaded also?
<carlos> the .pot files sometimes will be updated
<daf> rather than modifying the XML, I suggest that the packages and project information be kept separate
<carlos> daf: yes?
<daf> so we have three files: a projects file, a packages file, and a file which maps packages to projects
<SteveA> carlos: why do you need chroot to install source packages in some working directory?
<daf> does this make sense?
<carlos> daf: yes
<SteveA> makes sense to me
<carlos> SteveA: because the dependencies, we start building the .deb packages
<carlos> to apply the debian/ubuntu patches
<carlos> and we need to satisfy the dependencies
<carlos> we never compile it
<carlos> but I don't think the checks are avoidable
<SteveA> but, why do you need chroot?
<carlos> easily
<carlos> as a security mesure, that's not the important point
<carlos> hmm
<carlos> I see your point
<carlos> we could install them as a normal user 
<SteveA> you can do all this as a user, can't you?
<carlos> SteveA: yes
<SteveA> so, no need to hassle elmo
<carlos> true
<SteveA> great
<daf> SteveA: in how many places is the name of the database stored?
<SteveA> for launchpad, just one.
<daf> great
<daf> where is that?
<SteveA> in stand-alone scripts, in each script
<SteveA> I think
<SteveA> launchpad-sql-configure.zcml
<daf> if I create the new database and change that value, the alpha server should be ready to import data
<SteveA> you need to just put a different file in override-includes
<SteveA> launchpad-sql-configure.zcml is symlinked into there
<SteveA> I need to take a break
<daf> right
<daf> I need to eat
<carlos> SteveA: so I will fill a bug report to fill the database by hand with some products, that bug will block the alpha release, the other ones we were talking about will block the beta, is that ok for  you?
<carlos> SteveA: me too, I'm hungry :-)
<SteveA> sounds reasonable
<carlos> ok
<SteveA> but, it would be good to import more stuff using this script before the end of the alpha
<SteveA> that is, we want to get this stuff imported while the alpha is still going on
<carlos> SteveA: the idea is work on it now so we finish them this week (if possible)
<SteveA> so, maybe we want a bug called "before alpha can end we want the following things to have been tried out" ;-)
<carlos> but it does not block the alpha because we will release it today, right?
* SteveA is half-kidding
<carlos> :-)
* SteveA goes for break
* carlos too
<carlos> I will file all bugs after luch
<carlos> later
<daf> hahaha!
<daf>  createdb -E UNICODE launchpad_test || echo ${DBNAME} already exists
<daf> *oops*!
<daf> brown paper bag for stub, I think :)
<elmo_mf> ?
<elmo_mf> oh
<sabdfl> SteveA: i will have to keep an eye on the launch process, so please lead the launchpad meeting whether or not i'm here, i'll read the logs
<SteveA> ok
<SteveA> daf: what's the latest from lalo?
<daf> SteveA: I don't think I've heard anything you haven't
<SteveA> ok, so we won't expect him at this meeting, unless he manages to get to an internet cafe
<daf> indeed
<SteveA> can you send him a summary of the relevant parts?
<SteveA> I'll mail the log to stub
<daf> a summary, or the log?
<daf> hi stub 
<SteveA> hi stub.  shouldn't you be asleep? ;-)
<SteveA> ok, let's start
<stub> Morning
<stub> Yes mom
<kiko> we're on
* spiv is here
<daf> stub: I noticed this line in the schema Makefile just now: "createdb -E UNICODE launchpad_test || echo ${DBNAME} already exists"
<SteveA> daf, carlos from rosetta; spiv, kiko, cprov, debonzi from soyuz; stub from malone and DBA land; lulu from rosetta website experience; limi from "everyone's bitch" land; sabdfl half here, half at the warty launch, stevea 
<SteveA> lalo, sends apologies, with a broken computer
<SteveA> let's start with malone
* limi is lulu's bitch at the moment ;)
<lulu> SteveA - May Limi and I be excused - the website goes live in an hour
<SteveA> sure
<lulu> thanks
<SteveA> maybe keep 1/2 an eye, and we'll holler your names if we need something
<SteveA> stub: I posted the plan for malone to the list, and proposed it in the last meeting
<SteveA> what do you think about it?
<stub> Sounds sane
<SteveA> will you lead this, when you get back to working for us?
<stub> Also sounds like we aren't rolling  out Malone in the next two weeks, and are initially sticking with Bugzilla
<SteveA> yes
* SteveA realizes he forgot justdave from the list earlier.  Hi dave!
<stub> I'm happy to keep leading the Malone work
<SteveA> ok, great.
<SteveA> justdave: are you around?
<SteveA> justdave is working on a list of the top 100 bugzillas, to start importing from
<SteveA> we'll catch up with dave later.
* carlos backs from lunch
<justdave> yep
<SteveA> stub: we'll need to work out what the changes needed to use malone with ubuntu and with launchpad are
<SteveA> I think daf has been finding bugzilla's dependency charts very useful
<SteveA> but, we've also been using bugzilla as an issue / project tracking tool as well as strictly a bug tracking tool
<SteveA> I'm not sure what to do about that, wrt the malone plan
<SteveA> justdave: how's the list of sites going?
<justdave> has not been started yet because I've been dealing with bug-buddy and then release issues with bugzilla.ubuntu.com
<justdave> should have it by next week though
<SteveA> launchpad team in general: we'll need to think about what features malone *needs* to have in order to start using malone for launchpad. At present, we have "assign a person as responsible for fixing a bug". 
<SteveA> and I hope that's all we need.
<SteveA> justdave: maybe start doing just a few each day to ease into it?
<daf> dependency tracking is useful
<stub> And there is a feature request in Bugzilla for dependency charts
<spiv> Being able to close a bug would help ;)
<daf> dependency graphs arenot as essential
<SteveA> spiv: what do you mean?
<daf> I shuold have filed a bug about dependency tracking first
<daf> (and then made the carts bug depend on it :))
<spiv> SteveA: Just taking your statement a bit too literally.
<daf> * charts
<justdave> planning on 20 or so a day right now.
<SteveA> we need two categories:  stuff we *need* in order to start using malone for launchpad development.  stuff we'd *like*.
<justdave> but I may adjust that number as I get going and see how long it takes for each
<SteveA> let's put a wiki page up for that
<spiv> SteveA: I was about to ask wehere these lists are being kept :)
<stub> And the wiki page shall be called --- MaloneUseCases!
<SteveA> justdave: as part of the malone plan, we also need scripts to import open bugs from bugzilla.
<daf> SteveA: alternatively, we could file the things we need as bugs
<SteveA> let's stick them on a wiki page for now
<daf> SteveA: and track it all using a metabug
<daf> ok
<SteveA> justdave: any thoughts?
<justdave> certainly doable.  how soon do we need it?
<SteveA> within the next month, probably
<SteveA> depends on when stub can get malone ready for use for the launchpad bugs
<SteveA> justdave: can you file a bug on yourself for malone to write a description of exactly what the "import open bugs" thing needs to do?
<justdave> ok, a month is plenty far enough off to do that after I get the list done.
<justdave> import script shouldn't take more than a week
<justdave> sure
<SteveA> the important thing is to get the detailed description of what it should do fairly soon, so stub can use that for planning malone
<SteveA> thanks
<SteveA> ok, I think that's it for malone
<SteveA> soyuz next
<cprov> yep
<SteveA> kiko: you've arranged some meetings to get soyuz presenting relevant information from malone and rosetta
<sabdfl> sorry to chip in, just reading scroll back
<sabdfl> and i'd like to say that dependency tracking is really for enhancements to software
<daf> I disagree
<sabdfl> which will be better handled by the project management tool i'd like to work on once malone is nicely bedded down
<sabdfl> daf: go ahead
* SteveA pops upstairs to close a window, as it is started raining a lot
<cprov> SteveA: yes, we are trying to arrange this soon w/ daf, stub, lamont/elmo
<daf> we 've had bugs in Rosetta which can't be fixed because there is another bug that needs to be fixed first
<sabdfl> are those bugs, or features that are not yet implemented?
<stub> We have had cases where bugs in rosetta required bugs in sqlos to be fixed.
<daf> e.g. you can't commit translations which include % signs
<carlos> sabdfl: sometimes features, sometimes bugs
<sabdfl> so that's one bug, in sqlos, that victimises rosetta
<daf> this can't be fixed until a bug in Zope is fixed
<sabdfl> ok, keep going, i just wanted to point out that the project management tool is coming once we get these first launchpad apps bedded down
<sabdfl> and that will be a whole new thing we need to figure out how to use
<daf> it is often feature enhancements, but not always
<sabdfl> and the interaction between that, and malone, will i think be very powerful indeed
<kiko> SteveA, right. 
<daf> and there are cases where feature enhancements are blocked on bugs
<daf> i.e. I can't implement this feature until this bug is fixed
<sabdfl> we'll get to the point where we can handle each of those scenarios very powerfully in launchpad
<sabdfl> keep going... kiko?
<daf> but I am certain that there are cases where it is a straight bug-to-bug dependency
<stub> I think issues will block bugs, and vice versa (we already know issues and bugs are intimatly mated)
<kiko> sabdfl, we've been looking into integration with rosetta and malone, because those are high on our todo list.
<kiko> most of the other basic tasks are well underway and accounted for
<SteveA> have any problems come up so far in integrating the apps?
<kiko> but integration is a murky area, particularly because a good part of the concepts don't match up automatically.
<kiko> we haven't even started them yet; the meetings we've set up are to start discussing their concepts and our concepts and seeing what matches. from there fill up the templates with real data.
<kiko> I wonder if what we want is to coax daf and stub into writing portlets for us, or if we want to go into the database and pull data out.
<daf> there should be clean interfaces to the data you need
* carlos goes to open the door
<SteveA> I think it would work best if the rosetta team is responsible for writing the thing that gives you what objects you need.
<kiko> okay. so we shouldn't expect some ready-made "rosetta components" that come with UI and all?
<SteveA> I think it would work best if the rosetta team is responsible for writing the thing that gives you what objects you need from rosetta
<SteveA> well, that might work even better
<kiko> but on the data level -- we organize that into the interface as we like?
<SteveA> but I think you need to discuss in these meetings which approach fits best
<SteveA> what I want to avoid is for the soyuz team to be dealing with the low-level rosetta stuf
<daf> we have allocated a meeting specifically to talk about this tomorrow
<kiko> yeah. 
<kiko> I don't want to overburden rosetta/malone people, and I suspect that data sans UI is easier to obtain at this point, so I'd shoot for that.
<daf> SteveA: agreed: Soyuz should not need to grok Rosetta internals
<SteveA> is there any stuff you need to discuss going the other way?  presenting soyuz information within malone or rosetta?
<kiko> just to make things clear -- we want to be able to list open translations for a certain source package. I want to know if that makes sense or if I'm on crack.
<cprov> SteveA: does make sense presenting Soyuz data on Rosetta/Malone world ?
<stub> Are these mini-reports or summaries that link into rosetta and malone? Or a duplication?
<kiko> stub, I don't know what a duplication would mean, so the first option smells better. 
<cprov> stub: yes, mini-report, we are thinking in something like that.
<carlos> kiko: as I said yesterday (sorry, I forgot to send it to the list) Rosetta will work with source packages (or should do it)
<carlos> so the mapping should be one to one
<stub> I think there is a place for summaries ('There are X bugs in this package, click here to see'), or even portlets that don't take up much screen real estate.
<kiko> carlos, that's really good news. I wonder if you guys know about source package releases as well (cutoff points, I guess)
<kiko> stub, that's what I want, a summary.
<SteveA> cprov: that's what I was asking :-)
<carlos> kiko: I suppose we know, we use same tables
<cprov> stub: we also handle with persons ans should be able to get a report about them bugs (Mark has X assigned bug, Y resolved bugs, and so on)
<SteveA> ok, the rest you can talk about in the meeting tomorrow
<kiko> okay.
<SteveA> what is the tangible outcome of the meetings tomorrow?
<cprov> ok
<kiko> SteveA, things are under control on our side. Debonzi and Celso have nice little laundry lists and will be picking things off. No major roadblocks except for:
<kiko> - Integration issues
<kiko> - Package browsing (which you've pushed off)
<kiko> - Component browsing (which we haven't dreamed of and doesn't seem important -- we are just going to display where a sourcepackage is on-screen in the sourcepackage view)
<kiko> that's it.
<SteveA> ok
<SteveA> did all the issues raised at the soyuz meeting on monday get addressed?
<kiko> ZODB's still not up, so that blocks part of the work afaict.
* SteveA makes a note to get ZODB up
<spiv> SteveA: You have a bug about it.
<SteveA> my note says "look at the bug"
<kiko> and getting larger amounts of data is not in our backyard if possible.
<spiv> :)
<kiko> we'd like to be able to get something automated to push stuff in beyond what's being manually inserted.
<SteveA> which work does the zodb block?
<kiko> just notices, which aren't even critical (but which I find cool).
<spiv> Nothing urgent that I can think of -- just the "latest notices" thing.
<SteveA> ok, the notices.
<SteveA> cool
<SteveA> but, it would be good to allow you to experiment with interesting ideas like that
<SteveA> did all the issues raised at the soyuz meeting on monday get addressed?
<cprov> yes, I think
<kiko> SteveA, that was one of them. the other is DB fillage. the other is limi's assistance on page-browsing.
<kiko> the rest is dealt with.
<SteveA> spiv: you didn't mail to the list
<kiko> (I was being verbose)
<kiko> SteveA, sure he did.
<SteveA> did he?
<kiko> Subject: Bugs filed as a result of Soyuz meeting on Monday
* SteveA wonders if his spam filter has been working overtime
<spiv> SteveA: Sorry, I mailed it just before this meeting, which was a bit later than ideal :(
<SteveA> oh, okay
<SteveA> thanks for posting it :-)
<spiv> There's two points that didn't have bugs about them yet:
<spiv> "leave links to bugs until stub gets back to help you with it"
<spiv> I think that one is being taken care of, though.
<SteveA> you have the meeting
<kiko> right.
<spiv> And "make Distro --> DistributionRole really work" -- cprov, I want to chat with you about this first, so I can file a bug that makes sense :)
<spiv> (Just to confirm that I understand what the issue there is)
<kiko> spiv, yeah, this may tie into my teams email I wrote this morning.
<SteveA> ok
<SteveA> I asked earlier: what is the tangible thing you'll get out of your meetings tomorrow?
<SteveA> will someone mail a summary to the list?
<cprov> spiv: sure we can chat
<spiv> cprov: After this meeting suit you?
<cprov> spiv: yes, it's nice for me
<spiv> Ok.
<kiko> SteveA, we don't know yet, tbh. We're investigating possibilities. We'll probably get information and a strategy.
<SteveA> kiko: ok, please make sure someone mails a summary of the meetings to the launchpad list after the meetings
<kiko> I'll do that. 
<SteveA> Let's move on to rosetta
<SteveA> thanks.
<SteveA> daf: how is rosetta going?
<daf> I think we're on track to release the Alpha today
<daf> we've closed a lot of bugs over the past week
<daf> (and filed even more in preparation for the Beta :))
<daf> http://rosetta.ubuntulinux.org has been set up
<SteveA> it requires a username and password
<SteveA> i don't think it should do
<daf> elmo_mf: can you turn this off?
<carlos> SteveA: does  the launchpad login screen works?
<elmo_mf> err, yeah, in a bit
<SteveA> carlos: nothing will work while apache requires auth
<SteveA> what about importing packages to be translated?
<carlos> SteveA: as soon as it disapear, it will start working automatically?
<SteveA> carlos: yes, but we need to look at what permissions you have set.
<carlos> ok
<SteveA> daf, carlos: after this meeting, let's look at permissions
<carlos> ok
<daf> yes, let's
<SteveA> what about importing packages?
<SteveA> what have you decided to do about that?
<daf> we discussed package imports this morning
<SteveA> we worked out that it is 1.5 days work for someone to write the import script
<SteveA> so you were going to import a few by hand today 
<daf> since it seems developing an import script is going to be a non-trivial effort, we're going to import a few packages by hand for the Alpha
<SteveA> did you decide which ones?
<daf> no
<carlos> not yet, but I think we could follow mark's list of packages, we have them sorted by importance
<daf> I'll take them from Mark's list
<carlos> :-)
<daf> :)
<SteveA> ok
<SteveA> so, we're aiming to have the rosetta alpha working by the end of today?
<daf> that's right
<SteveA> so, you'll plan to announce it to the list of "rosetta sounders" tomorrow
<daf> I was planning to announce it as soon as it's up
<SteveA> if it goes up late, don't announce it when you're very tired
<SteveA> sleep on it, and check it out in the morning
<daf> I'll bear that advice in mind
<carlos> daf: then you should send the announcement :-P
<carlos> I should not
<SteveA> and, let's make time to give the alpha, once it is up, a thorough look at together
<daf> that would be good
<SteveA> ok.
<carlos> SteveA: I have a doubt about rosetta and ubuntu website
<carlos> we have a link to rosetta 
<carlos> (or we will have it)
<carlos> if we have it closed only for alphatesters...
<SteveA> I don't think it will be closed for them
<carlos> but we don' have a way to register new users
<SteveA> only that we'll need to have people registered in the database to do certain things
<carlos> we register them by hand
<SteveA> daf is registering people by hand using your script, isn't he?
<carlos> yes
<daf> SteveA: that's the plan
<daf> I'll do a mass registration before I send out the announcement
<SteveA> what about people who see the site in the link from ubuntulinux.org?
<carlos> SteveA: that's my question :-)
<daf> that's undefined behaviour :)
* stub 's battery is running low
<daf> let's define it
<SteveA> ok, let's define that in a rosetta meeting
<SteveA> I'd like to declare the whole launchpad team meeting over.
<daf> I think we'll want sabdfl's input on that
<SteveA> thanks for coming, launchpad team
<daf> thanks for chairing, Steve
<kiko> thanks SteveA
<kiko> time to hack!
* stub waves g'night
<kiko> night stub
<daf> night stub 
<carlos> stub: bye
<daf> stub: before you go...
<daf> stub: shall I fix that Makefile bug?
<stub> Bug? Looked fine to me...
<daf> stub: look again
<daf> stub: or shall I explain? :)
<SteveA> daf, carlos: let's meet again in 30 minutes to talk about permissions and anything else pertaining to rosetta alpha
<stub> hardcoded launchpad_test?
<daf> stub: exactly
<carlos> SteveA: ok
<stub> sure - fix it if you want.
<daf> stub: ok, thanks
<SteveA> spiv: you've finished the xml-rpc auth server?  I know we had a recent change in an encoding.
<stub> Oh - was there a decision on the unique constraint for schemas and labels?
<carlos> stub: I will send you a patch
<carlos> well, to lifeless
* stub buggers off
<SteveA> spiv: can you talk with the admins about getting it running on maquarie?  Upfront are aiming to deliver their part at the end of the week, so it would be good to get the xml-rpc server running by then.
<SteveA> cheerio stub
* carlos takes a break until next meeting
<spiv> SteveA: In theory, yes, but I haven't written as many tests as I'd like to be 100% confident that there's no stupid bugs.
<spiv> SteveA: I'll talk to the admins.
<SteveA> can you mail them today?
<spiv> Yes :)
<spiv> (Assuming they don't all collapse for 24hrs after the Ubuntu release :)
<elmo_mf> password removed from r.ul.o
<daf> elmo_mf: thanks!
<carlos> SteveA, daf: meeting?
<SteveA> hi
<carlos> hi
<daf> hi
<SteveA> so, let's talk about what different people should be able to do with rosetta
<SteveA> we have the following situations
<SteveA> - pages / actions that anyone can see / do.
<SteveA> - pages / actions that only People in the database may see / do
<SteveA> - pages / actions that noone may see / do
<daf> what things fall into the last category?
<SteveA> accessing attributes or methods for which no security declaration is made 
<SteveA> you've been doing this all along :)
<daf> indeed :)
<SteveA> this may sound trivial, but it used to be a real pain with zope 2 development
<SteveA> before the zope2 security system was partially fixed by making it deny before allowing
<SteveA> we also have the following situations with people being logged in
<SteveA> - no-one is logged in (it is the unauthenticated principal)
<SteveA> - a Person is logged in
<daf> right
<carlos> ok
<SteveA> we have the following combinations of what people can see / do, and who is logged in
<SteveA> - no-one is logged in; pages/actions that anyone can see/do
<SteveA> - a person is logged in; pages/actions that anyone can see/do
<SteveA> - a person is logged in; pages/actions that only people in the database may see/do
<SteveA> We need to make a list of those pages/actions that only people in the database may see/do
<carlos> I think the only pages that should be accesible only for people logged are the forms (except the searcher)
<SteveA> doing it based on pages is a good first step
<carlos> https://rosetta.warthogs.hbd.com/rosetta/projects/$Project.name/$Product.name/$POTemplate.name/translate
<daf> translator dashboard, maintainer dashboard, preferences, translation template
<daf> those are the ones that come to mind
<SteveA> let's open a bug called "set restrictive permissions on forms in rosetta"
<carlos> https://rosetta.warthogs.hbd.com/rosetta/projects/$Project.name/$Product.name/$POTemplate.name/$Language.code/+edit
* carlos has pending to open the previous meeting bugs. but I have the log saved
* carlos writing this bug report
<SteveA> ok.
<SteveA> How about if daf and I pair-program on getting the first few permissions sorted out in the code?
<SteveA> carlos: when do you need to sleep ?
<carlos> SteveA: I can work still some extra hours
<carlos> hmm, I don't have access to the server to do the initial import data
<daf> carlos: your stamina is impressive :)
<carlos> daf: as soon as I leave the laptop It will go down :-)
<daf> stay where you are!
<carlos> I only need to be busy
<carlos> :-D
<carlos> what other important tasks do we have for today?
<carlos> hmmm
<carlos> ok, I could prepare a .sql file with the initial server data
<carlos> in my laptop
<daf> why can't I run the import script on the server?
<carlos> so daf you will only need to load it into rosetta's serve
<carlos> daf: I don't have an account :-)
<daf> but I could run the script
<daf> or I could load SQL
<carlos> but you will be busy with steve
<daf> that would probably be easier, actually
<carlos> that's my point I work now on a sql
<carlos> with the initial data for the alpha
<carlos> upload it to chinstrap
* daf nods
<carlos> and you import it into the database
<carlos> SteveA, daf?
<daf> yes?
<carlos> do you agree?
<carlos> :-D
<daf> yep
<carlos> ok
* carlos backs to work
<SteveA> elmo_mf: ping?
<elmo_mf> yeah?
<SteveA> any chance of andrew getting an account on rosetta until Monday, and being able to run some twisted listening on an unpriv port to the outside world, and being able to create a postgres DB? 
<SteveA> I'd like him to be able to run his xml-rpc auth service, with a dummy db, so that upfront can test against the software their stuff will be used with.
<SteveA> this in turn will make it more likely that the "turning on auth on the ubuntu site" will work properly on friday
<elmo_mf> SteveA: yeah, still busy with random release stuff, I'll try and do it in a bit
<SteveA> ok, shall I mail to admins@... ?
* SteveA mails anyway
<elmo_mf> never hurts to mail :)
<SteveA> thanks elmo
<carlos> daf: how is going the bug fixing ?
<daf> I have a fix for the recently translated feature locally
<daf> Steve and I are working on permissions
<carlos> I'm importing .po files but it's sloooooow
<daf> yeah :(
<daf> even on the Rosetta server, it's slow
<carlos> hmm, that's bad
<carlos> daf: hmm, we have a problem...
<carlos> psycopg.IntegrityError: ERROR:  duplicate key violates unique constraint "pomsgidsighting_pomsgset_key"
<carlos> INSERT INTO POMsgIDSighting (id, pluralform, pomsgid, inlastrevision, datelastseen, datefirstseen, pomsgset) VALUES (1836, 1, 924, 't', 'NOW', 'NOW', 918)
<carlos> msgfmt -c -v does not detect anything and it's a .pot file...
<daf> must be a bug
<carlos> I know, I'm debugging it now
<daf> do you know what exactly the "pomsgidsighting_pomsgset_key constraint is?
<carlos> yes, I think it's a problem with a plural form
<carlos> a unique key
<carlos> don't worry, I will handle it
<daf> well, I'm not surprised we're finding bugs in the importer when testing it with real files
<carlos> I think I have it, need to look at the .pot file
<carlos> SHIT
<carlos> #: mailcheck/mailcheck.c:1091
<carlos> #, c-format
<carlos> msgid "%d unread"
<carlos> msgid_plural "%d unread"
<carlos> msgstr[0]  ""
<carlos> msgstr[1]  ""
<carlos> How could we handle it?
<carlos> it's not a bug in the importer
<daf> ooh
<daf> I think it is a bug
<carlos> not in the importer
<daf> this is a valid message set, I think
<carlos> the database does not handle it
<daf> oh, right, not in the importer
<daf> the constraint is invalid, I think
<carlos> seems like it's invalid
<carlos> yes
<carlos> funny...
<carlos> hope lalo did not assume any check based on that restriction...
* carlos removes the unique key
<daf> will you submit a patch to the scema?
<carlos> yes
<carlos> with the labels changes
<carlos> seems like lalo is connected
<carlos> I got an orkut invitation from him
* carlos needs some food
<debonzi> hi elmo, do you have some time to give me a breaf explanation about sourcepackage builddepends and builddependsindep?
<debonzi> if some else know about it are wellcome too :)
<daf> debonzi: what do you need to know?
<daf> builddepends are packages another package needs install to build architecture-dependent packages
<daf> builddependsindep are packages needed to build architecture-independent packages
<debonzi> daf, That's what I need to know indep means arch-indep :) tks
<daf> no problem
<carlos> daf: what should I do with the .po files that fails importing them? bug report with it attached is enough?
<daf> no
<daf> just include the message set that causes the error, I think
<carlos> daf: I need to debug it
<carlos> and I don't want to expend time on it tonight
<daf> sure
<carlos> I have the bt
<daf> BT?
<carlos> and I have the .po file, I will save them for tomorrow
<carlos> trace
<carlos> backtrace
<carlos> pfff, it an hour I have only three po files imported. I think we should fix it before the beta release....
<carlos>  /s/it/in/
<daf> :(
<carlos> well two, and it's working on the third (and the second failed)
<carlos> SteveA: do we have a profile for python?
<SteveA> I don't know what that means
<kiko> carlos, profile.py?
<kiko> or hotspot?
<spiv> carlos: There is a profiler, if that's what you're asking.
<carlos> any URL I could look at
<carlos> or a name
<SteveA> hotshot
<carlos> hotspot?
<SteveA> hotshot
<carlos> ok
<carlos> thanks *
<daf> I think the database is the bottleneck
<spiv> carlos: It may also be worth turning on the debug flag in SQLObject, if you suspect DB calls are the problem.
<carlos> phone
<spiv> (or the equivalent at the postgres end)
<SteveA> we may want to provide some db calls that do a lot in one query, and see if that helps
<carlos> sorry, I'm back 
<carlos> daf: the bugs I file now should block the Alpha release or the beta one?
<daf> what are the bugs?
<carlos> are bugs inside the imported code that fails
<carlos> for instance, it does not handle custom headers (like X-Generator)
<daf> file the bugs, we can fix the dependencies later
<carlos> ok
<daf> I think the parser should be fairly liberal with regards to ignoring headers it doesn't recognise
<carlos> daf: right
<kiko> lulu! late night eh? :)
<lulu> kiko:hey hon - yup - last nigtht and tonight, but just had a yummy dinner as a celebration!
<lulu> how u?
<carlos> The sql sentences does not show anything that seems to be unnecesary but when it's a SELECT COUNT... in that case it execute it twice
<carlos> 2004-09-15 23:44:45 [13570]  LOG:  statement: SELECT COUNT(*) FROM POMsgIDSighting WHERE pluralform = 0 AND pomsgset = 1345
<carlos> 2004-09-15 23:44:45 [13570]  LOG:  statement: SELECT COUNT(*) FROM POMsgIDSighting WHERE pluralform = 0 AND pomsgset = 1345
<daf> hmm
<carlos> but I doubt that's the problem to go so slow
<carlos> we have about 10 selects/updates
<daf> me too
<carlos> hmmm
<daf> 10 per message set?
<carlos> I didn't count them
<carlos> It's difficult to do it
<daf> yeah :(
<carlos> it was a feeling  :-)
<daf> perhaps you could create a test PO file which only contains one or two message sets
<carlos> wow
<carlos> 28 select/updates
<carlos> every field is updated in different queries:
<carlos> 2004-09-15 23:50:01 [13570]  LOG:  statement: UPDATE POMsgIDSighting SET inlastrevision = 't' WHERE id = 2691
<carlos> 2004-09-15 23:50:01 [13570]  LOG:  statement: UPDATE POMsgSet SET commenttext = '' WHERE id = 1345
<carlos> 2004-09-15 23:50:01 [13570]  LOG:  statement: UPDATE POMsgSet SET sourcecomment = '' WHERE id = 1345
<carlos> 2004-09-15 23:50:01 [13570]  LOG:  statement: UPDATE POMsgSet SET filereferences = 'accessx-status/GNOME_AccessxStatusApplet.server.in.in.h:3' WHERE id = 1345
<carlos> 2004-09-15 23:50:01 [13570]  LOG:  statement: UPDATE POMsgSet SET fuzzy = 'f' WHERE id = 1345
<carlos> 2004-09-15 23:50:01 [13570]  LOG:  statement: UPDATE POMsgSet SET flagscomment = '' WHERE id = 1345
<carlos> 2004-09-15 23:50:01 [13570]  LOG:  statement: UPDATE POMsgSet SET obsolete = 'f' WHERE id = 1345
<carlos> instead of execute only one UPDATE
<daf> ouch
<carlos> that could be a big problem
<carlos> with long .po files
<daf> we might be able to improve that
<daf> can you identify where these calls are being made in Python code?
<daf> spiv: should SQLObject be clustering these changes?
<daf> spiv: or is it not that clever?
<carlos> SQLObject
<carlos> pofile_adapters.py
<carlos> it's an sqlobject that changes its attributes
<carlos> and every time, it seems like it executes an update
<daf> how about this:
<daf> (we don't have to do this now)
<daf> we take a PO file that is known to import
<daf> i.e. it doesn't trigger any bugs
<daf> and we time how long it takes to import it
<daf> then, we add a magic method which does the above six updates using _connection.query()
<daf> make the PO file adapters use that method
<daf> and time it again
<daf> that way, we know how much of a preformance improvement we can expect from reducing the number of queries
<carlos> makes sense (I suppose using_connection.query() will let us to execute sql sentences directly, right?)
<daf> yes, I think there are some cases of it in sql.py already
<carlos> ok
<carlos> I will file a bug about it now
<daf> brilliant, thanks
<daf> I think perhaps you should sleep now :)
<carlos> daf: yes, I was thinking about it already, don't worry :-)
#launchpad 2005-09-26
<sivang> night all
<bradb> kiko_diskless: Would you mind reviewing this privacy patch so that the Malone front page doesn't prompt for login anymore? (It doesn't do so at this moment either, but it did earlier, and it will again when another private bug gets filed)
<kiko_diskless> sure
<bradb> thanks, just make linting...
<kiko_diskless> wow /me <3 bradb
<kiko_diskless> bradb, in exchange two questions: any eta on a mountain bike for me, and how much does it cost to buy a crap car in montreal?
<bradb> kiko_diskless: I haven't looked into mountain bikes yet. I'll make a note to look in the next few days.
<kiko_diskless> okidok
<bradb> crap car? hm, not sure.
<bradb> maybe $1000-$1500 CAD
<bradb> any reason why you want to buy rather than rent?
<kiko_diskless> well, I was thinking of driving to NYC, but the return fee is $1000CAD
<kiko_diskless> so buying might be a better option than renting
<bradb> kiko_diskless: you wanna be stuck with a *car* in NYC? :) it should be pretty cheap by bus or train.
<bradb> like, a few hundred bucks
<kiko_diskless> yeah, that's an option. I was thinking of taking my time though
<bradb> kiko_diskless: you might find something if you keep your eye on http://voir.ca/petitesannonces/annonces.aspx?iIDRubrique=801&iIDZone=1&iNumeroParution=1937
<kiko> thanks
<bradb> kiko_diskless: patch sent
<kiko_diskless> okidok
<kiko_diskless> downstairs
<lifeless> SteveA: hows the new lappy ?
<bradb> kiko-fud: i'm not here right now, but can I merge that patch?
<koke> are there any web services planned for launchpad??
<stub> kiko-fud: Carlos seemed happy with the whitespace migration. Should I be running this on production, or do we still have more verification to do?
<Kinnison> stub: There's a heinous bug in gina :-)
<Kinnison> stub: I'm working on a fix now
<stub> itym Gina is a heinous bug
<Kinnison> Well, there is that, but this is related to binary package priorities
<Kinnison> we have an inverted priority map
<Kinnison> bloody thing
* Kinnison is preparing a fix now
<Kinnison> ideally I'll need a reviewer to go over it
<Kinnison> basically it's removing a buggered duplication and fixing up references to it
<Kinnison> spiv: fancy an easy-peasy review?
<spiv> Kinnison: sure.
* Kinnison is just committing now
<Kinnison> It'll be daniel.silverstone@canonical.com--desktop/launchpad--gina-fix--20050920--patch-2
<Kinnison> I'll say once it's mirrored
<Kinnison> ** adding revision daniel.silverstone@canonical.com--desktop/launchpad--gina-fix--20050920--patch-2
<Kinnison>     2005-09-21 00:54:14 GMT      Daniel Silverstone <daniel.silverstone@canonical.com>
<Kinnison>     Remove BinaryPackagePriority (a pointless duplication of PackagePublishingPriority) which wasn't even the same values, thusly causing endless issues with published archives.
<Kinnison> done
* spiv waits for baz
<Kinnison> You're aware of baz's show changeset stuff yes?
<spiv> I am.
<spiv> Normally chinstrap is speedier than this...
<Kinnison> Well that change is standalone so you should be able to use it
<Kinnison> stubby.
<Kinnison> spiv: does that patch look okay to you?
<spiv> Kinnison: Yep, looks fine.
<spiv> Almost [trivial]  :)
<Kinnison> Yeah, I was gonna [trivial]  it but figured it deserved a look over
<Kinnison> it's a lot of lines for a trivial y'see
<spiv> Right.
<spiv> I wish more people would do what you just did :)
* Kinnison grins
<spiv> nearly-trivial reviews tend to be fast reviews, modulo baz.
* Kinnison is gonna sit through at least the start of a gina run on dogfood, then if it looks fine, I'll send pqm a request and retire for the night
<spiv> *cough* because you don't have enough tests *cough*
<spiv> ;)
<Kinnison> Heh
<Kinnison> Well, this run appears more sane
<Kinnison> 01:21:12 WARNING Countdown 16857 binary packages
<Kinnison> not convinced I cba. to wait through an entire binary package run
<Kinnison> priorities look good
* Kinnison bounces
<Kinnison> merge is in pqm's queue
<Kinnison> see you tomorrow
<Kinnison> ciao
* Kinnison -> bed.
<lifeless> night
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: Remove BinaryPackagePriority which caused publisher vs. gina issues. r=spiv (patch-2451: daniel.silverstone@canonical.com)
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--production--1.33: Cherry pick patch-2444 into production 1.33 (patch-5: rocketfuel@canonical.com, christian.reis@canonical.com)
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--production--1.33: Cherry pick patch-2446 into production 1.33 (patch-6: guilherme.salgado@canonical.com, rocketfuel@canonical.com)
<hub__> hi
<jamesh> hi hub__ 
<hub__> looks like launchpad does not like my GPG key
<hub__> or that I don't like his GPG encrypt
<jamesh> is this a problem registering a GPG key, or signing a code of conduct?
<hub__> registering
<hub__> GPG reject the encrypted confirmation message
<jamesh> so you received the encrypted confirmation, but couldn't decrypt it?
<hub__> yep
<jamesh> what error do you get?
<hub__> adding a subkey elgmal
<hub__> I think that's it
<hub__> will know in a bit
<jamesh> note that Launchpad pulls the keys from the keyserver network, so if it is a new key (or you are making changes to it) it may take time to propagate
<hub__> yep
<hub__> will upload it again
<jamesh> so "gpg --decrypt" on the PGP blob you received doesn't give you any error messages?
<hub__> bingo
<hub__> that's it
<hub__> sorry for the noise
<hub__> enigmail decrypt without problem now
<jamesh> okay.  Follow the URL, enter your launchpad password and it should all be set up
<jamesh> it will add any additional uids from the key as unvalidated emails for your account too
<hub__> yep
<hub__> duplicate account detected 
<hub__> fun
<hub__> :-)
<hub__> I love that
<hub__> w00t
<hub__> kudos to launchpad people
<jamesh> the merge accounts page is at https://launchpad.net/people/+requestmerge, if it didn't already point you there
<hub__> it is all good
<hub__> it told me, I followed it worked
<hub__> now I should read the documentation
<jamesh> the last uid on your key looks weird: "Pedro R. Fernandez"
<hub__> it is a GPG bug
<hub__> I have the same key ID as someone else
<hub__> I should have played lottery
<hub__> http://bugzilla.mozdev.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11204
<jamesh> so you do.
<jamesh> good thing we get you to enter in the full fingerprint :)
<hub__> yep
<hub__> keyid is not to be "trusted"
<hub__> as there are more individuals on earth than combination
<hub__> but 1 / 2^32 is still more luck that the Lotto here
<spiv> hub__: Congratulations ;)
<hub__> thx
<sivang> morning all!
<sivang> I wanted to ask something, if I had a launchpad name registered, and I changed it yesterday, what isn't it reflected in my ubuntu.com email alias?
<sivang> (a possible bug?)
<stub> sivang: I'm not sure if anyone except elmo can help you.
<sivang> stub: ah, but as there are probably two parts to this, how do we know which of them failed? (e.g., launchpad part vs. the host system)
<sivang> stub: btw, I'd like to note that the gpg importing system rocks , well, as well as every other part of launchpad
<SteveA> hi
<carlos> morning
<Treenaks> hi
<Treenaks> I'm getting timeouts and proxy errors using rosetta.. known issue?
<Treenaks> carlos: I'm translating the Ubuntu FAQ Guide
<Treenaks> carlos: my view is set to "untranslated only", and when I click "save and continue" it just stops..
<Treenaks> and after a few minutes I get:
<Treenaks> The proxy server received an invalid response from an upstream server.
<Treenaks> The proxy server could not handle the request POST /distros/ubuntu/breezy/+sources/ubuntu-docs/+pots/faqguide/nl/+translate.
<carlos> Treenaks, could you check if it happens too with other modules?
<Treenaks> main page works
<Treenaks> changing profile too
<carlos> Treenaks, I mean, translate another package
<Treenaks> I can browse around
<Treenaks> carlos: oh
<Treenaks> carlos: let me see
<carlos> thank you
<Treenaks> same with gstreamer/show all
<Treenaks> (waiting for the timeout/error message now)
<carlos> Treenaks, URL?
<Treenaks> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/hoary/+sources/gstreamer0.8/+pots/gstreamer-0-8/nl/+translate
<Treenaks> (hoary!?)
<carlos> hmmm
<carlos> Treenaks, what do you do there?
<carlos> to get the timeout
<Treenaks> carlos: just change anything and press "Save & Continue" at the bottom
<Treenaks> carlos: remove the "needs review" flag for example (there is only 1 on the initial page)
<SteveA> aw crap, my merge of last night failed with a merge conflict.
<carlos> no need to change anything
<Treenaks> carlos: oh, ok.. then just submitting creates the timeout?
<carlos> yeah
<carlos> Treenaks, please, could you file a bug report?
<Treenaks> carlos: ok
<carlos> I need to profile that code a bit to know what's going on...
<carlos> Treenaks, thank you
<Treenaks> carlos: what package/distribution names?
<carlos> Treenaks, https://launchpad.net/products/rosetta/+filebug
<Treenaks> carlos: guess what..
<carlos> Treenaks, timeout?
<Treenaks> carlos: I think I'm getting a timeout on bug submit
<carlos> then it's not a rosetta specific problem....
<carlos> stub, ?
<carlos> is there any problem?
<Treenaks> oh it worked now
<Treenaks> it was just very very slow
<stub> carlos: yo
<carlos> stub, is the load of the server too high?
<carlos> stub, Treenaks is getting many timeouts
<stub> Nothing unusual - pretty much unloaded. There is a poimport process running chewing up 20% of a CPU, but emperor still has three cpus idle.
<stub> Treenaks: Are they 'launchpad is down for maintenance' pages?
<Treenaks> stub: no
<Treenaks> stub: they are "Proxy error" pages
<stub> If it says 'launchpad is down for maintenance', then it is our load balancer that is giving trouble.
<Treenaks> stub: or "System Error, please retry or file a bug" pages
<stub> ok. So I suspect that the error pages are from another proxy server between you and our data centre.
<stub> But I can't prove that ;)
<Treenaks> stub: I'm not using a proxy on my side
<jamesh> once we get the request timeout stuff working, hopefully other proxies won't time out requests on us :)
<stub> Treenaks: Your ISP might have a proxy, but it would be odd for them to bother with SSL connections.
<stub> Hmm..
<Treenaks> stub: "my ISP" is a 100mbit ethernet cable plugged into the BGP router :)
<stub> elmo: ping
<Treenaks> It seems to get slower on higher page numbers
<carlos> stub, an HTTPS proxy??
<stub> carlos: can be done, but doesn't make sense usually. Useful in some network topologies where clients don't have direct internet access or if you have particularly paranoid firewalling. 
<stub> I don't think it can be done transparently either...
* stub is pleased to discover TCP/IP is all becoming a blur from a past life
<jamesh> carlos: HTTPS proxies work differently to HTTP ones: you send them a "CONNECT hostname:port" command, and then you do the SSL handshake and request
<Treenaks> still, I don't use a https-proxy..
<stub> ok - I've found some error messages. The issue is definitely at our end.
<jamesh> great way to punch any protocol through a firewall if they're not configured properly :)
<stub> Treenaks: Thanks for the heads up
<stub> I'll need elmo or possibly Znarl to check out the Pound logs to determine if the issue is in Launchpad, Apache or Pound.
<Burgundavia> who can edit a teams calendar?
<Treenaks> Burgundavia: team admins?
<Burgundavia> can it be more granular than that?
<Kinnison> Morning
* stub suspects Launchpad is taking too long to render some of the pages, and Apache is giving up waiting for the load balancer.
<stub> morning
<SteveA> stub: yeah, well...
<SteveA> jamesh's database "takes too darn long" patch landed
<SteveA> so i can hook it up to the publisher
<SteveA> and also get that "shut down the socket if there are too many tasks queued" stuff done
<carlos> dudes, we need gina run on production....
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: r=kiko + some [trivial]  various menus landings. (patch-2452: steve.alexander@canonical.com, mpt@canonical.com)
<SteveA> hurrah
* Kinnison lunches
<SteveA> spiv kiko-fud lifeless salgado BjornT jamesh stub -- reviewers meeting in 8
<jordi> SteveA: I won't be able to be around for this meeting, I'm in the "fix final fuckups" moment of our release
<SteveA> jordi: that's okay, it's a reviewers meeting
<BjornT> SteveA: isn't the meeting at 13 UTC usually?
<SteveA> i thought it was 1200UTC
<SteveA> like the launchpad meeting
<SteveA> hmm, was 1600 last week
<SteveA> according to the logs
<SteveA> spiv kiko-fud lifeless salgado BjornT jamesh stub -- reviewers meeting in 65 minutes
<jordi> SteveA: I mean the meeting in 3 mins?
<SteveA> jordi: there is no meeting in 3 mins
<SteveA> jordi: i was mistaken about the time
<jordi> great, this is wednesday.
<SteveA> jordi: but, the meeting is just for the review team
<SteveA> there's a launchpad developers' meeting tomorrow at 1200 UTC
<SteveA> and you're invited to that one
<stub> Boo hiss
<SteveA> sounds like a singer from a redneck punk band
<niemeyer> Hiho!
<SteveA> hi gustavo
<niemeyer> Hello Steve
<mpt> goooooooooooooooooooooooooooooood morning
<Treenaks> hey mpt
<niemeyer> mpt: What about "launchpadders"?
<niemeyer> mpt: Ok.. nevermind :)
<mpt> "Launchpadders" is so last month
<niemeyer> Hehehe
<Treenaks> mpt: what's it now then?
<Treenaks> mpt: Launchpaddites?
<Treenaks> mpt: Launchpaddistas?
<mpt> For some reason kiko-fud addresses all his messages to the Launchpad list as "The Soyuz team at Launchpad"
<mpt> though most of us aren't working on Soyuz
<bob2> it's been lunchpadder for years
<bob2> mpt: it's a mind-control ploy
<mpt> So I always took care to rewrite that as "The Launchpadding Launchpadders at Launchpad"
<bob2> mpt: once you belive you work for kiko, he can launch his evil legions of the undead^w^wlaunchpad hackers
<salgado> BjornT, around?
<BjornT> hi salgado 
<salgado> yo BjornT. might you have some time today for us to sort out the remaining bits of that basic-voting review?
<BjornT> salgado: ah, sorry, forgot about that. i'll take a look at it now
<salgado> cool. thank you
* BjornT -> phone
<ddaa> lifeless: what do you think of a FewerBazConflicts BOF to diagnose (and hopefully) fix the workflow of our fellow launchpadders?
<lifeless> could be interesting
<ddaa> I just have a persistent feeling that a lot of the frustration around is caused by workflow that expect that baz merge does magic.
<ddaa> Maybe also DemystifyingMeshMerge :)
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: [r=spiv]  Launchpad Auto Build System Scoring prototype, ordering jobs by sourcepackagerelease urgency/component and time pending in queue. (patch-2453: celso.providelo@canonical.com)
<ddaa> lifeless: okay, I'll sumbit to JaneW, who do you think should be lead? I think the deliverable should be documentation.
<ddaa> mh... that calls for jblack...
<ddaa> jblack: ping
<Kinnison> Anyone fancy a quick review of two trivial, but not quite trivial patches?
<Kinnison> (I.E. functionally they're trivial but they're more than one or two lines)
<SteveA> less than 400 lines?
<SteveA> spiv kiko-fud lifeless salgado BjornT jamesh stub -- reviewers meeting in 9 minutes
<lifeless> k
<Kinnison> uhm yes
<SteveA> Kinnison: send them to me
<Kinnison> Do you want patch numbers, or a diff or what?
<SteveA> diff + tree-id is most convenient
<Kinnison> okies
<Kinnison> in email?
<SteveA> sure
<salgado> stub, ping
<stub> salgado: pong
<salgado> stub, another cherrypick. would be great if you could do it before going to bed. :)
<salgado> patch-2446
<salgado> want me to mail you?
<Kinnison> SteveA: sent
<stub> salgado: Done
<salgado> great! thanks stub 
<stub> salgado: I asumed you forgot to email me since it seemed like a patch that needed rolling out
<lifeless> stub: what channel ?
<stub> Dunno
<salgado> stub, indeed, I forgot. but thankfully you watch the commits list closely. :)
<lifeless> bah
<lifeless> SteveA: what channel?
<SteveA>  canonical-meeting
<SteveA> kiko-fud: ping
<BjornT> salgado: you've got mail. it mostly the testing to make sure that assert statements are triggered that bothers me.
<SteveA> that is weird
<SteveA> the point of assert statements is that they shouldn't get triggered
<BjornT> exactly my point
<SteveA> if you're going to test for it, i think it is worth upgrading to a proper exception
<SteveA> you can't argue "i'm lazy, so i want a single statement" then
<SteveA> as you're writing a test for it
<salgado> well, I'm writing tests to prove that that is not allowed
<salgado> and client code should verify the pre-conditions before trying to do that
<BjornT> spiv: btw, are you aware of that 'python -O test.py -f --test=librarian.txt hangs? not sure if it's important or not
<kiko> morning reviewers
<SteveA> kiko: ECHANNEL
<spiv> BjornT: No, I wasn't!
<spiv> BjornT: Ouch.
<salgado> kiko, #canonical-meeting
<kiko> old news
* Kinnison prepares to upgrade his laptop to breezy using the archive re-published on mawson
* Kinnison eeps
<kiko> wow
<Kinnison> wow?
<kiko> yeah, sounds cool
<zyga> Kinnison: be carefull...
<zyga> Kinnison: I just did and it hurts :/
<Kinnison> zyga: what was the state of breezy @ 4am ?
<zyga> Kinnison: ?/
<salgado> so, I've been using assertions a lot in database code, to catch client code not checking for pre-conditions
<salgado> I also write doctests to prove you are not allowed to do some things you don't met the pre-conditions
<Kinnison> zyga: mawson gets its archive pulse around 4am
<salgado> BjornT is concerned about the tests depending on these assertions being raised
<Kinnison> aah, zyga wouldn't know
* Kinnison grins
<Kinnison> never mind
<salgado> what should I do? kiko, SteveA, BjornT?
<zyga> Kinnison: I did the upgrade a minute ago and udev gave me a hard time :/
<stub> kiko: I don't think the new exception display is as useful as I hoped. I think I need to waste more space and output the str(the_exception) + url instead of just the url
<SteveA> stub: which new exception display?
<stub> SteveA: Script output.
<SteveA> salgado: if you're writing a test to test your asserts, i think maybe these asserts are more than just that.  you'll want to either put the tests in a special "here are some tests to show that we do something decent when a programmer misbehaves when using our APIs", or make them a part of the contract for those methods, documented in the docstring, and proper exceptions.
<SteveA> so, you have the choice of either way, but don't let it be ambiguous whether these are part of the API interface, or just you being nice to other programmers who make mistakes.
<salgado> ok, so that means we should be using specific exceptions when checking for pre-conditions?
<stub> I'm sitting on the fence. More tests are good, and testing your assertions work as you hope is good. 
<stub> But nobody asked me ;)
<BjornT> i still think that assert statements should never be triggered, not even by tests
<spiv> salgado: So one clear practical problem is that the correctness of our code, as measured by the test suite, will be wrong if your tests are depending on assert statements and we run with python -O.
<salgado> I think it won't make any difference using specific exceptions in these cases, as the pre-conditions are pretty clear in the docstrings. if you don't check for them, it's your fault and you should get an exception that's not meant to be caught (AssertionError)
<spiv> I think I'm with Steve: if they're worth testing, explicitly raise rather than assert.
<salgado> well, I guess everything in database code is worth testing, no?
<stub> I don't believe in arguments mentioning -O. The only people who use it don't know what it does.
<salgado> stub, +1
<spiv> stub: It's a bit of a weak argument I admit.  Perhaps "practical" was too strong a word to use :)
<jordi> SteveA: yeah, sorry. I thought today was Thursday.
<stub> Indeed, having tests fail if you run them could be a good thing since the code isn't designed to work with it ;)
<spiv> I'd almost be happier if we had "try: assert False:\nexcept AssertionError: pass\nelse: print 'LP is not python -O safe.'; sys.exit()" ;)
<SteveA> okay, we're never going to use -O on launchpad, without some serious cleanup work anyway.
<SteveA> spiv: sure, add that.
<stub> We should have a test for that ;)
<SteveA> salgado: keep the asserts, keep the tests, but make sure these tests are not in the general flow of documentation, but are classified as "testing asserts to catch faulty preconditions" or suchlike.
<SteveA> everyone vaguely satisfied with that?
<BjornT> i'd be happier if the tests were in a special file, to make it even clearer
<spiv> It'll do for me.  It feels odd, but I don't think it really matters hugely :)
<SteveA> Kinnison: you have review mail.
<salgado> okay, I would do that. but my point here was not that I wanted only to keep the asserts. I wanted to make sure that we can use asserts to check for pre-conditions.
<salgado> s/I would/I will/
<Kinnison> SteveA: ta
<SteveA> salgado: if you'd write in the docstring "if you do such-and-such it raises an AssertionError" then make sure you're not using an assert.
<SteveA> if you'd write in the docstring "don't do such-and-such" then use an assert
<salgado> SteveA, no, I usually write "you can't use this method if you don't have this and that"
<SteveA> then that's fine.
<SteveA> use an assert
<SteveA> and make sure the tests of these cases are clearly separated.  perhaps as doctestname-cornercase.txt or something like that
<SteveA> we can make the documentation work better as documentation, and put the more involved testing, and the testing of corner cases and misbehaving clients, in another file
* SteveA asks for a better name
<salgado> that seems pretty fine
<SteveA> salgado: please improve the AssertionsInLaunchpad docs, and get bjorn to review your improvements
<SteveA> to reflect what we've decided
<salgado> sure. that's why I wanted this discussion
<kiko> stub, that would be wonderful! makes me smile!
* stub names Steve 'Kenneth'
<SteveA> i can pretend my name is "Keith"
* Kinnison hands SteveA a snot-proof deckchair
<SteveA> i must now dig my clothes up, and go to get some belated lunch
<SteveA> Kinnison: are you showing sufficient gravitas?
<Kinnison> I believe so
<Kinnison> SteveA: was my reply convincing?
<SteveA> Kinnison: yes, but it seems slightly tasteless to alter sys.argv
<Kinnison> oh?
<Kinnison> I guess I'm used to C where you futz with argv if you want
<Kinnison> I'll probably end up with optparse or something eventually but since for now there's only one argument I couldn't be bothered with it
<SteveA> please add a comment saying "lookee here, altering sys.argv"
<Kinnison> erm okay
<stub> Kinnison: You probably should be using canonical.launchpad.scripts.log_options
<Kinnison> stub: whassat then?
<stub> erm... logger options. Gives you --quiet and --verbose, tied up to Pythons logging system so you use log.debug(foo) and log.error(foo) instead of print statements.
<stub> (and if you were using it, it wouldn't have been a bother to add more command line options)
<kiko> stub, did you see the odd error checkwatches returns now?
<kiko> BugTrackerConnectError: https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com: HTTP Error 501: Not
<kiko> +Implemented
<kiko> stub, I think our proxy doesn't support https, perhaps?
<stub> kiko: Don't know.
<kiko> note that this is returning for bugzilla.ubuntu.com
<Kinnison> stub: okay, so instead of thinking about optparser I'm thinking about the canonical variant. where can I find a spec about it?
<kiko> which we used to be able to monitor correctly
<kiko> stub, should we ping elmo and find out?
<stub> Yer.... 501 not implemented when I test manually. I guess it isn't implemented ;)
<kiko> heh
<kiko> bandido
<kiko> stub, just turn off the proxy and at least ubuntu.com will work
<stub> o
<stub> k
<bradb> kiko: Can I merge that auth problem patch?
<kiko> and I'll pester james into opening outgoing https for us (think he will?)
<kiko> bradb, did I read it?
<bradb> kiko: I dunno. I sent it to you yesterday though.
<bradb> You said you were going to review it.
<kiko> ah, but saying and doing!
<kiko> what's the name of our other sysadmin?
<salgado> BjornT, AssertionsInLaunchpad updated. :)
<salgado> stub, can I have access to the full access and error logs of the production servers?
<bradb> kiko: are you going to be able to review it now, or am I going to [trivial]  this merge? :) I've got four patches desparately wanting to be merged atm.
<kiko> bradb, I need to eat something first, if you can wait
<kiko> I'm dying
<bradb> i can't wait!
<stub> salgado: If you don't mind a time delay, yes. I can copy them across to a machine you have access to. Giving out more accounts on the production servers though could be problematic as they are supposed to be secure (and more accounts == more attack vectors)
<bradb> kiko: anyway, i guess i'll wait. please review this as soon as possible if you can though. the sooner this patches get merged, the sooner i can get to writing your admin fix patch.
<bradb> kiko: (and the email header fix you requested, also ready to be merged but in the queue)
<kiko> stub, if you did that systematically I'd really appreciate it
<salgado> stub, no, the time delay won't be a problem. I just want them to try to find what users are doing that is causing them to go back to a logintoken page after they already "consumed" the token
<salgado> and also find how some users are reaching the +login page on shipit
<mpt> 14:13:01 ERROR   Blah!
<stub> Cool. I can set up a regular rsync somewhere. Erm... chinstrap ok I wonder?
<kiko> salgado, maybe just reloading the URL?
<kiko> stub, that would rock!
<salgado> stub, that would be great
<salgado> kiko, that gives me only the error logs. I want the access logs to see what's the workflow
* kiko is more excitable
<salgado> and also, the error logs are starting to expire too quickly, now that we're having a lot more of these logintoken errors, because of shipit
<ddaa> lifeless: what do you do to prevent pysvn from raising UnicodeDecodeError from a request for a diff (e.g. when it barfs trying to decode its own data while I'd be perfectly happy with a byte stream)?
<BjornT> salgado: looks good. although i'd be inclined to say that the tests generally should go in a separate file, to really separate them from the documentation of the API.
<salgado> BjornT, that's fine. do you want me to change that?
<BjornT> salgado: yeah, why not :)
<salgado> well, I was expecting that you would volunteer for that. ;)
<salgado> I'll change in a couple of minutes. :)
<stub> salgado: They are in ~stub/production_logs on chinstrap. I'll cron it tomorrow unless elmo has some way already setup for doing this sort of thing.
<salgado> stub, cool. ta
<kiko> stub, rock!
<kiko> salgado, I was suggesting that that was the way people were running into errors
<salgado> kiko, could be. but they'd have to do that before the form is processed, because they get redirected after that
<stub> Weird - one of the launchpad servers isn't getting any hits, but it seems to be responding just fine.
<kiko> stub, pound perhaps?
<stub> maybe
<salgado> https://chinstrap.ubuntu.com/~dsilvers/paste/file7ZsueE.html
<salgado> seems like the password widget used the wrong context?
<kiko> weird
<salgado> kiko, they're not reloading the page. all the requests returning 404 are GET requests
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: Minor dominator fix and add --careful to publish-distro.py. r=stevea (patch-2454: daniel.silverstone@canonical.com)
<salgado> oh no, there's some POSTs too. I guess that ones I can assume are all reloads?
<Kinnison> If you call .selectOneBy() does that error if there are more than one?
<Kinnison> or does it do a LIMIT 1
<Kinnison> ?
<salgado> Kinnison, it raises
<kiko> Kinnison, at least selectOne raises
<Kinnison> okay thanks
<segfault> is there any problem with LP? it's damn slow here.
<matsubara> here too
* Kinnison blows dogfood away and starts it again, sorry guys
<kiko> upstairs for some salgado/matsubara action
<cprov> salgado: about your request for oppinion about LoginToken, to keep them seems to be a good idea since they do not represent a big storage volume and I think we will have plenty space for new token ids ( [a-zA-Z0-9]  [20]  ~7E36 possibilities) . Based on this we can have an additional feature in foaf that shows all requests done by you, if it's interesting at all ? what do you think ?
<kiko> yeah, I think it's okay to keep tokens around (in particular to avoid 404s)
<jbailey> jordi: Around?
<salgado> but should we keep them forever?
<kiko> why not?
<cprov> salgado: why not ? 2 reasons are valid: we can't generate new token ids ( false 7E36 available, more than 1E6 worlds pop.) AND we can't store (false they are tiny)
<bradb> BjornT: stick around dude, I'll be following up to your URL changes email soon... :)
<salgado> cprov, seems fine. can you reply to my email, so we keep the discussion in a single place?
<cprov> salgado: ok, to store every token available the number is HUGE even in TB ;)
<cprov> salgado: ok, will reply 
<BjornT> bradb: ok, i will :)
<BjornT> bradb: btw, would you object if i would remove the wrapping that is done for comments in mail notifications?
<bradb> BjornT: yeah, i think i would, actually :P
<bradb> why do you want to remove wrapping of comments in email notifications?
<kiko> bradb, because it doesn't work very well
<BjornT> bradb: it's buggy as it is, and i'd say it's almost impossible to get it right.
<kiko> well, BjornT, to be fair, I think it's fixable
<kiko> I store all the bugmail launchpad emits on our product 
<BjornT> bradb: what we could do is to wrap the comments that are made via the web ui, before we store them in the database
<kiko> about 5% is broken
<bradb> it may not be simple to fix, but I don't think any user will appreciate a developer shortcut of simply removing wrapping from emails altogether :)
<kiko> BjornT, that's not trivially done -- you should see the bugzilla bug about removing wrap-hard
<kiko> let me get you a reference
<bradb> BjornT: my opinion is: yes, it's probably not easy, but if you can try and make it Just Work, users will be happy. they will demonstrate their satisfaction in the form of not saying "gah! what's with this ugly, unwrapped email!"
<kiko> bradb, BjornT, before continuing down this path, I suggest you look at https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11901
* BjornT reads
* bradb works on landing the URL changes firstr
<SteveA> bradb: ping
<kiko> it was fixed the right way, too
<bradb> SteveA: can it wait? I'm in the middle of something for the next couple of hours.
<bradb> SteveA: I was going to get back to you later on that transaction.commit breakage
<kiko> bradb, BjornT: one major improvement would be not wrapping lines that start with >.
<bradb> kiko: yes, i think we can do useful, smart things like that that will help solve the problem
<SteveA> bradb: this is about actions portlets and your work
<bradb> SteveA: right, what's up?
<SteveA> see, unless we coordinate, it's likely you'll get conflicts and so need to do more work
<SteveA> so, enough menus stuff has landed so that you can go directly to using menus on your branch, i think
<SteveA> this would be better for you, and it doesn't take very long to do it.
<SteveA> what do you think?
<bradb> SteveA: I need to land this code.
<SteveA> so, we're agreed then?  ;-)
<bradb> SteveA: I've already lost one full day to conflict resolution.
<kiko> SteveA, I'd suggesting letting bradb land, tbh
<SteveA> great.  this will save you from further conflicts in the area of actions portlets.
<SteveA> really, it's a very quick thing for you to do.
<bradb> SteveA: After it's landed, I'll make more menu changes.
<bradb> BjornT: I'm still confused: what different does importing from the specific module make when in the interfaces package?
<kiko> carlos, can you ping me when you're back?
<bradb> __init__.py gets run either way, no?
<SteveA> bradb: it's possible you'll conflict.
<bradb> SteveA: I've already merged up to about an hour ago.
<SteveA> when can you land what you have?
<bradb> SteveA: within the next couple of hours, hopefully
<carlos> kiko, I'm back already
<kiko> super-carl
<kiko> os
<SteveA> if it's within the next couple of hours, that's great
<BjornT> bradb: try not to import sourcepackage from its specific module, and you'll see
* bradb tries
<bradb> hm
<bradb> I don't understand why that happens.
<bradb> __init__.py still gets run, no?
<carlos> jordi, hi
<carlos> jordi, around?
<kiko> jordi, ping us when back
<BjornT> bradb: i'm not sure exactly how it works, but i do know that it can cause problems sometimes
* bradb feels the sting of a language with (virtually) no compile time
<bradb> BjornT: reply sent
<jordi> kiko, carlos: here, sortof (I'm back at office finishing the release)
<kiko> I'll privmsg jordi, carlos 
<carlos> jordi, wasn't gajim's 0.8 branch obsolete?
<carlos> kiko, ok
<carlos> thanks
<elmo> umm
<BjornT> bradb: you haven't mirrored the changes yet?
<bradb> BjornT: nope
<bradb> waiting for make check first
<elmo> do we know about broken apps 2 on production?
<BjornT> bradb: ok, ping me when you've done that. it looks fine, just want to take a quick look at it.
<bradb> BjornT: ok, will do
<jordi> carlos: heh, this is a bit silly.
<kiko> elmo, stub was talking about this -- but he said the server was answering requests fine?
<salgado> ddaa, around?
<elmo> well, I just  logged on and saw a "timed out" on nagios
<elmo> it's actually disappeared now
<elmo> which doesn't make me feel much better
<ddaa> salgado: I am.
<carlos> jordi, so as I think, they changed their mind, right?
<kiko> carlos, jordi: I think nikos is confused, just let him be
<kiko> wait for him to show up if he must
<kiko> he's usually on #pygtk, I can knock on him there
<salgado> ddaa, will "baz make-archive --mirror" overwrite an existing archive? I want to re-register my mirror
<ddaa> I'd consider it a bug if it did.
<ddaa> you probably want "baz register-archive -d" with the old location and "baz register-archive" with the new one.
<ddaa> I do not know how the -f flag behave with the new archive registration model, it had a clear use case with registered names, though.
<ddaa> salgado: but I think the proper place to ask is #bazaar :)
<ddaa> or #arch
<salgado> ddaa, I already delete the existing registration and registered my own archive again
<ddaa> so, what's the problem?
<salgado> but then after that I don't have the mirror registered. (e.g. archive-mirror fails)
<salgado> archive-mirror: Warning: no mirror registered for guilherme.salgado@canonical.com
<ddaa> salgado: -> #bazaar
<SteveA> ddaa: is malone bug 1205 still important to you?
<ddaa> SteveA: I might be able to answer when launchpad.net starts responding again...
<SteveA> kiko: do you know anything about the crap the test suite is spewing?
<SteveA> on stderr
<ddaa> SteveA: this is not important anymore
<ddaa> now that the import death sprint is over
<SteveA> ddaa: okay.   thanks.
<ddaa> Would still be sexy to have though :)
<SteveA> it's on a very old branch from morgs
<SteveA> probably best to reimplement it if we need it in the future
<kiko> SteveA, no clue :-/
<SteveA> it's gross, man
<ddaa> I do not think we are ever going to _need_ it again
<kiko-fud> I need to run for fud to get back in time for the meeting
<SteveA> ok
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: rs=kiko hook jamesh's request timeout code up to the web publisher. (patch-2455: steve.alexander@canonical.com)
<SteveA> mpt: ping
<mpt> SteveA: pong
<mpt> kiko: The salient differences between bug 11901 and now are that (1) NS4 is no longer a target browser, and (2) browsers except MSIE support max-width
<bradb> BjornT: changes committed and mirrored
* bradb holds his finger over the Big Red Button
<SteveA> gogogo brad.  doit
<bradb> BjornT: how's it look?
<BjornT> bradb: push it!
<bradb> !
<bradb> SteveA: What's your preferred way of documenting a "missing" parameter in an Interface? i.e. How do you write the interface code/method signature to show that?
<SteveA> what is a "missing" parameter?
<bradb> e.g.
<bradb> missing = object()
<bradb> class IFoo(Interface):
<bradb>     def bar(this, that, somethingelse=missing):
<SteveA> is this a marker?
<SteveA> can you not use None ?
<bradb>         """Do stuff...raise an error if something else is missing."""
<bradb> SteveA: no, can't use None. None is a valid arg value.
<SteveA> okay
<kiko> I suggested
<kiko> class NoUserSpecified: pass
<kiko> placing that in the interface
<SteveA> then you need to have a singleton value that is available from the interfaces file
<SteveA> um, module
<kiko> and using in the interface and in the database class
<kiko> right
<SteveA> it needs to be called something unique
<kiko> that's what I suggested
<SteveA> so, not just missing
<SteveA> it's a constant, basically
<SteveA> but
<SteveA> consider having two different methods
<kiko> don't use a class? :)
<SteveA> no_user_specified = object() would be good
<SteveA> but, consider having two different methods
<SteveA> it is often bogus to have a method change what it does based on the presence or absence of a keyword arg.
<bradb> SteveA: it's a database search method, whose user parameter is required.
<kiko> this is a guardian, SteveA 
<bradb> SteveA: i.e. we want to specifically say that it's required, and give you a useful error message if you didn't pass a user arg.
<SteveA> if the 'user' parameter is required, make it a positional arg
<SteveA> that is how in python you say "this arg is required"
<bradb> SteveA: that breaks pretty easily.
<bradb> all the user of the API has to do is pass a parameter in the first position, in this case, and it would work
<SteveA> so, you want to ensure that someone sets it explicitly
<bradb> well, "work", i.e. break
<SteveA> and it can be set to a Person or to None ?
<bradb> SteveA: right
<SteveA> okay.  then in the interface, you can just say   user=None, and in the docstring, say "The 'user' argument must be explicitly supplied"
<SteveA> and in the implementation, use a private marker for its default value
<bradb> ok, that was another approach i had considered
<bradb> will do that, thanks
<kiko> why not use the same value for interface and database, SteveA?
<SteveA> because it is a private marker
<SteveA> it doesn't need to be in the interface
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: [trivial]  Following the specification, fixing builddUI pages for homogeneous facet url +builds. (patch-2456: celso.providelo@canonical.com)
<SteveA> two different implementations could use different markers, for example
<SteveA> it would do no particular harm to put the marker in the interface, and import it into the database code, but it seems to be a lot of work for something that will never be used.
<ddaa> actually, something that is _meant_ to be never used
<bradb> kiko: are you happy with that then? =None and a private marker?
<ddaa> If None is not a a valid value, it's simpler to just use that.
<kiko> sure
<ddaa> Trying to enforce contract in python tends to lead to much ugliness IME.
<SteveA> ddaa: i agree.
<SteveA> however, brad is adamant that he wants clients to provide the 'user' arg explicitly
<ddaa> I think None would make a pretty good value then.
<SteveA> so i think 1. that's just an implementation issue and 2. a note in the docs serves to note the requirement
<SteveA> so, it is None in the interface
<SteveA> and a marker, to detect whether it is explicitly provided, in the implementation
<SteveA> using **kw is another way to check it is explicitly provided, btw
<ddaa> And it's TypeError if the argument is not set to something of the right type or interface (or just not None).
<ddaa> yuck!
<SteveA> it is an error of some kind if the argument is not provided
<SteveA> the arg can be provided as None
* bradb commits the changes
<SteveA> bradb: what is the error you're trying to avoid people making?
<bradb> SteveA: not passing the user arg
<kiko> which causes us grief
<bradb> SteveA: if they don't pass the user arg, they almost surely will not get the correct, privacy-aware, search results back.
<SteveA> what will they get back if user is None? 
<SteveA> would a warning suffice?
<bradb> SteveA: the correct, privacy-aware search results. in this case, as an anon user.
<kiko> correct
<bradb> SteveA: warnings aren't strong enough for this, IMHO.
<SteveA> well...
<SteveA> let me think aloud for a moment
<SteveA> what if you made the default value None
<SteveA> and had a warning that is issued only if the value is None while the logged-in user is not anonymous
<SteveA> anyway -- another question
<SteveA> why can't you make 'user' positional ?
* ddaa think Python people do not use NullObject often enough
<bradb> SteveA: because it's too easy to get that wrong. for example, if it were positional, the existing bug that caused me to fix this bug in the first place would have remained uncovered by the tests.
<SteveA> bradb: sounds good, but i'm none the wiser
<SteveA> example?
<bradb> bugset.search(duplicateof=bug)
<bradb> er.
<SteveA> btw "uncovered by the tests" can mean two very different things
<bradb> icks that
<SteveA> call the API searchAsUser(user, other args)
<bradb> SteveA: there's a better reason why i rejecting making user positional
<bradb> not the thing about uncovering bugs in tests, etc.
<bradb> rather, the error message
<bradb> TypeError: foo() takes at least 1 non-keyword argument (0 given) communicates very little to the user of the API, in this case
<SteveA> please write the method's "def" here
<bradb> >>> def foo(bar, baz=None):
<bradb> ...   pass
<bradb> ...
<bradb> >>> foo(baz=1)
<bradb> Traceback (most recent call last):
<bradb> ...
<SteveA> um
<SteveA> the actual method we're talking about
<bradb> oh
<bradb> def search(self, duplicateof=None, orderBy=None, limit=None, user=_missing):
<SteveA> okay.  def searchAsUser(self, user, duplicateof=None, orderBy=None, limit=None)
<SteveA> that is much more pythonic than what you're trying to do
<SteveA> the name tells clients of the API that 'user' is important and required
<bradb> phew, that's going to break a lot of code :)
<SteveA> BRM
<bradb> brm?
<SteveA> bicycle repair man
<SteveA> lifeless and spiv swear by it
<bradb> ah, interesting
<bradb> if it works with emacs, i might be interested
<salgado> SteveA, I had a change in person-porlet-actions.pt. all I need to do now is add it to the relevant contextmenu (TeamContextMenu in this case)?
<SteveA> that depends what the change is
<SteveA> if the change is to do with context menu items, then you need to update that context menu
<SteveA> if, however, the change was to do with an app menu (bounties, specs, support, etc) then that app menu needs updating
<salgado> it has to do with the context menu (a 'Show Polls' link)
<SteveA> ok
<salgado> SteveA, there's a 'common_reassign' in PersonContextMenu(). I guess I can remove that, right?
<SteveA> depends
<salgado> depends on?
<SteveA> well, common_reassign comes from the CommonLinks mixin class
<SteveA> so, if you want to use the menu link at that point in the menu, then you need to leave it in.
<SteveA> if you do not want to use it, then take it out
<bradb> kiko: replied to your review of the front page patch
<salgado> this CommonMenuLinks is used only in browser/person.py? 
<salgado> SteveA, ^
<salgado> (I mean, it's not meant to be used by other modules, I guess)
<bradb> Who else has upgraded to Breezy for LP development?
<SteveA> i have, on my laptop
<SteveA> not on my desktop yet
<bradb> SteveA: Did dist-upgrade work ok?
<SteveA> bradb: fresh install
<bradb> ah
<Kinnison> bradb: Mine was a touch difficult
<Kinnison> bradb: but I'm doing it from the dogfood archive
<salgado> bradb, I'm not using for LP development, but the dist-upgrade went fine
* Kinnison is having to upgrade gina to cope with broken stuff
<salgado> the only problem was caused by filesystem corruption, that I guess was there before the upgrade
<bradb> When I dist-upgraded to warty, I couldn't boot anymore :/ turned out to be a yaboot conf problem (initrd line somehow got commented, IIRC)
<SteveA> salgado: yes, the CommonLinks is used only there at present, because that's the place where the links were in common.
<SteveA> this will need refactoring if we get links in common across modules
<SteveA> then, they'll move into webapp/__init__.py
<salgado> SteveA, then, right now, the common_reassign shouldn't be "common", as it should exist only in teams pages
<SteveA> okay, then you can move it into just the team's class, and change its name
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: [r=BjornT]  Malone URL changes. Yep. Also: contextualize the bug page, allowing for viewing a bug in a context where it's not yet filed (and One-Click (TM) reporting of the bug in that context), add a simple distro sourcepackage object and a bunch of other bugfixes. (patch-2457: brad.bollenbach@canonical.com)
<kiko> woo bradb woo
<mpt> "Yep."
<mpt> well done bradb
<bradb> thanks :)
<bradb> I've got a bunch more to land today, if the toolchain stays out of my way.
<kiko> you mean that was your last landing of today?
<bradb> kiko: I've got three other patches on the way to merge today. The toolchain will probably limit me to getting about two of them merged.
* kiko chuckles
<bradb> kudos to BjornT for taking on the task of reviewing that patch. :)
<bradb> SteveA: btw, that means all systems go for whatever menu stuff you're working on. making sure Malone menus work superbly is my next major goal (while doing various other things, like making sure our error messages, success messages, and other feedback messages 1. exist and 2. don't suck.)
<SteveA> cool
<SteveA> nice one brad
<SteveA> i'm merging the latest now, so i can land some of mpt's menus work
<SteveA> 1 conflict
<SteveA> but need to see whether tests pass
<SteveA> how bogus is that?
<SteveA> <<<<<<< TREE
<SteveA> def traverseSourcePackage(sourcepackage, request, name):
<SteveA>     if name == '+pots':
<SteveA>         potemplateset = getUtility(IPOTemplateSet)
<SteveA>         return potemplateset.getSubset(
<SteveA>                    distrorelease=sourcepackage.distrorelease,
<SteveA>                    sourcepackagename=sourcepackage.sourcepackagename)
<SteveA>     return None
<SteveA> =======
<SteveA> >>>>>>> MERGE-SOURCE
<SteveA> why is that a conflict?
<SteveA> it's clearly an addition
<kiko> lifeless once explained this to me, but I forgot
<kiko> ddaa might know
<ddaa> because diff3 sucks?
<ddaa> SteveA: lemme guess, it's an addition at the end of a file?
<SteveA> no
<bradb> SteveA: it's called traverse_sourcepackage, IIRC
<bradb> in traversers.py
<SteveA> lib/canonical/launchpad/browser/sourcepackage.py
<ddaa> SteveA: my guess would be that there is a deletion at this point between BASE and OTHER.
<ddaa> since base is not shown, you get this puzzling message
<SteveA> bradb: what did you do with the searchAsUser stuff?
<SteveA> i don't see that name in the source
<bradb> SteveA: just merged from rf into that branch. will resolve conflict and merge now.
<SteveA> cool
<SteveA> thought it was the one that just landed
<SteveA> you are truely a man of many branches
<bradb> SteveA: the point about the traversal function is that i moved it into the right place
<bradb> which appears to be what's causing the conflict
<SteveA> i see, so that's just dead code now?
<bradb> SteveA: did you change anything at all in that code? the function you show doesn't exixst here.
<bradb> nor does it *exist* here
<SteveA> the first part is identical with what you moved
<SteveA> so, i'll just delete it
<bradb> sounds good
<sladen> mpt: what did you do to #2112 an hour ago.  An email came through but it's impossible to tell from that what you did
<sladen> mpt: I'm suspecting that you unduplicated it
<mpt> That is correct, and it was only a few minutes ago
<mpt> gneuman, matsubara: Those bugs were about the same code, but they weren't duplicates
<kiko> sladen, it's a bug in malone -- I know about it but am unsure it's reported
<mpt> kiko: Then report it and get your interns to mark it as a duplicate if necessary ;-)
<kiko> mpt, they are next to you -- please ask them yourself.
<mpt> kiko, they subscribed to launchpad-bugs five minutes too late, so they don't have a copy of the notification
<mpt> hum, I suppose that doesn't matter though
<kiko> of course it doesn't
<kiko> there is this great feature called "forward"
<sladen> launchpad seems to be 'hung' for about the last 3 minutes.  The actualy server responds but no page comes back
<SteveA> probably some freak query on some page taking up all the resources
<SteveA> we have code waiting to be deployed that stops such things from happening
<sladen> *still hung*.  Do both the frontends live behind the same IP or can I force it onto the other one?  Hmm, now there's a 503 unavailable
<sladen> and back to being hung
<bradb> Keybuk: I'm wondering: should the Sender: header be malone@... (which, AFAIK, doesn't exist), or the bug's address?
<Keybuk> malone
<Keybuk> :D
<sladen> bradb: probably somewhere like 'malone' or 'malone-bounces' which goes to an intelligent piece of code that picks up bouncing email address and stops spamming them after a couple of fails
<Keybuk> exactly
<Keybuk> and set the envelope sender/return path (MAIL FROM:) to the same thing
<Hieronymus> When will Launchpad be back? Is there an ETA?
<bradb> kiko: for this Reply-To/From patch (which was meant to make the From: header ML friendly but replying to the message still Do The Right Thing), do you mind if we save the Sender: setting/bounce handling for another day?
<bradb> (well, From: header ML friendly, easy to reply directly to person who made the change, etc. but anyway, same question... :)
<kiko> bradb, is it difficult to add a sender line?
<salgado> Hieronymus, it's back, already
<bradb> kiko: No, but I don't know how that behaves with bounces.
* bradb muddles around the RFCs
<kiko> bradb, any worse than we currently do? 
<bradb> kiko: if it bounces to an address that itself would bounce then that would seem worse to me
<jblack> ddaa: ping
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: r=SteveA, mpt's mpt@canonical.com/launchpad--menus--0509 adding menus to source packages (patch-2458: mpt@canonical.com, steve.alexander@canonical.com)
<SteveA> yay
* SteveA goes home
<kiko> yay yay yay
<mpt> and distro releases!
<SteveA> mpt: mail me about any menus stuff for me to review tomorrow morning.
<sladen> bradb: surely you want email replies about the bug to go back to the bug!
<sladen> bradb: otherwise you have the same hassle with Bugzilla where you actually have to log into it
<bradb> sladen: Yeah, of course we want replies to go back to the bug, hence Reply-To: <bugaddress>
<mpt> SteveA: I won't have time for any more before tomorrow, probably
<sivang> hey all
<sivang> elmo: do you know if I can change my email alias, I changed it in launchapd but it doesn't reflect on the mail alias. (actually, it would be nice to know if this feature even exists)
<ddaa> jblack: I might be sort on time
<bradb> Keybuk: would you consider it acceptable to set Sender: to malone-bounces@ for now and set the Envelope From to malone-bounces@ when we've already written a bounce handler for that?
<ddaa> jblack: but here's the idea
<ddaa> jblack: our boys are complaining a lot about baz, I think the problem boils do to two things:
<Keybuk> bradb: sure
<bradb> ok
<ddaa> 1. not using available optimisations in particular hardlinked trees and fl_cow
<ddaa> 2. bad workflows that cause a lot of conflicts
<jblack> Yes
<elmo> sivang: yes you can, and it should work now
<ddaa> jblack: I was thinking of making a FewerBazConflicts BOF, were we could talk with the most serious cases (bradb? mpt?), figure out their requirements and come with alternative workflows to satify them.
<ddaa> jblack: the deliverable of the BOF wolud be documentation, so I though of you as the BOF main.
<sivang> elmo: ok, I'll test that again
<ddaa> jblack: I wanted to know how you felt about it before actually submitting the BOF to JaneW.
<sivang> elmo: every how often is the cronjob for this changes is run?
<jordi> sivang: I wonder if you feel like translating one of the xml gnme manuals using xml2po to see if it works. :)
<elmo> sivang: it's not fixed ATM, I'm still working on it
<jordi> there are some that are really short.
<jordi> sivang: no need to finish it even
<jblack> I think thats a good idea. put me as first, and lifeless as second.
<sivang> elmo: oh ok, let me know when you want me to test it
<elmo> sivang: now
<sivang> elmo: ok, sec.
<ddaa> jblack: okay, please remind me about it (I'm going to leave any minute now)
<jblack> ddaa: I'll try
<ddaa> so I might forget about it
<sivang> ddaa: planning a launchpad documetnation bof?
<ddaa> sivang: a very specific kind of documentation, but yes
<ddaa> general documentations things are jblack's
* ddaa leaves
<sivang> elmo: you rock :)
<sivang> jblack: I'm interested in both, where do I sign ? :)
<bradb> ddaa: The things about baz that slow me down the most are: 1. its speed, 2. its robotic feedback. Not sure that that fits with what you had in mind for discussion in a FewerBazConflicts BOF
<jblack> sivang: sivang: It'll be on the bof page
<bradb> s/feedback/feedback and failure modes/
<sivang> jblack: k
<sivang> jblack: on the same as the distro team's you mean?
<jblack> There will be some master list at the bof, and once we get it on it'll be listed there and in the schedule.
<Keybuk> ddaa: on the other hand, relying on the user chosing a different filesystem or using obscure LD_PRELOAD hacks to allow editing of hardlinked trees, etc. isn't exactly the right way to solve speed issues
<bradb> . o O (you said it dude)
<sivang> jordi: what do we need to test?
<sivang> jordi: habe you done changed to xml2po ?
<jordi> sivang: if it works at all for rtl langs
<sivang> jordi: IIRC you thought it was Yelp's fault, did you sort that out?
<jordi> I have no idea. That's what I'd like to find out. :)
<sivang> jordi: ok, let me know if there is a very small snippet I can test with, but I need to finish a patch before, will ping you when I'm ready
<jordi> sivang: geyes-applet is trivial
<jordi> should be done in 15 minutes.
<jordi> http://kvota.net/doc-l10n/by-modules.html
<sivang> jordi: through rosetta ?
<jordi> sivang: nope
<sivang> jordi: how ddo I fetch the xml for translation ?
<jordi> sivang: actually, have a look at desktop-feedback :)
<jordi> even more tiny
<jordi> but geyes is very easy
<jordi> you do the po file, and then convert to xml
<jordi> I can tell you how
<sivang> I need to get the source pkg right?
<sivang> jordi: can you email me instructions instead? If I don't manage to finish it tonight I will do it tommorow while at work
<jordi> sivang@ubuntu.com?
<sivang> jordi: you know it already :)
<sivang> jordi: ah sorry, sivan@ubuntu.com
<sivang> jordi: without the g
<jordi> k
<jordi> sivang: mailed
<kiko> there goes launchpad
<bradb> Keybuk: one more nitpick: would it be ok to set Sender: to our standard, LP-wide bounce address? (currently this is bounces@canonical.com in the config file i'm looking at, but presumably when we get serious about bounce handling, it'll be something more launchpadesque)
<Keybuk> yes
<bradb> ok
<Keybuk> sender can be anything launchpaddy, it basically says "this is what made this e-mail"
<kiko> bradb, does this affect bjorn't bounce-into-librarian code?
<bradb> kiko: no idea
<bradb> we're already setting Errors-To to that the same address in production, so it seems unlikely that this would cause any harm
* mpt wonders why we're talking about baz BoFs when we'll have switched to bzr by then ;-)
<kiko> okay
<bradb> Keybuk: right, so, I've added this:
<bradb>     >>> msg["Sender"] 
<bradb>     'bounces@canonical.com'
<bradb> kind of test all throughout bugnotifications.txt
<bradb> and a 2-liner in mailnotification to add the header
<bradb> Keybuk: tests pass, can i merge it now?
<Keybuk> cool
<Keybuk> go for it
<kiko> go for it bradb 
<kiko> make us proud
<bradb> heh
* bradb goes for it
<kiko> sometime soon we'll want to change the id to bugXXX@bugs instead of XXX@bugs
<kiko> stop getting caught in spamtraps
<kiko> though perhaps this From: is less hated
<bradb> maybe bug.42@...?
<sivang> jordi: ok, I got the mail. thanks
<sivang> jordi: can I use ubuntu source pkg instead of fetching from CVS?
<jordi> sivang: most probably, but you'll have to run automake, not autogen
<sivang> jordi: ok, then I'll try that , I will do it now for you :)
<sivang> jordi: hmm,  ironically enough, geysy doesn't have it's own pkg, it's part of gnome-panel's src pkg 
<sivang> jordi: is that ok ?
<jordi> gnome-panel? it's not gnome-applets?
<sivang> jordi: no, geys is in gnome-applets IIRC (minus late hour and full day of work)
<sivang> jordi: hrm. you were right 
<ddaa> bradb: speed: see hardlinked trees, fl_cow and my following reply to Keybuk's comment. robotic feedback: What do you mean? I see you often here complaining about having a ridiculous number of conflicts.
<sivang> jordi: I can't find the POT in the CVS website
<Keybuk> the ridiculous number of conflicts is when baz decides to use an ancient branch of Celso's as the common ancestor, rather than the revision just two back
<Keybuk> it does it from time to time
<Keybuk> it's a known bug
<bradb> ddaa: the conflict insanity was mostly specific to the URL changes branch, not a regular thing
<ddaa> Keybuk: we know how to solve the speed issues. lifeless has been working a lot towards fixing them in baz, cleaning the code to allow making the changes. But they will never be implemented there because the focus is now on bzr, which has the improvements built-in already.
<jordi> sivang: I gave you a link for the pot file before
<sivang> jordi: it opened whole lots of modules, not specific to geyes
<Keybuk> ddaa: indeed
<ddaa> Keybuk: so I'm focusing here on: 1. alleviating the pain in the meantime 2. diagnosing the workflow issues that will cause pain in the future as well
<jordi> sivang: you can pic the pot file for geyes there
<jordi> pick
* Keybuk recommends morphine
<sivang> jordi: found it. I need some caffeine. Too bad I don't drink coffe anymore
<jordi> I have never drank coffe :)
<bradb> ddaa: the robotic feedback is things that matter only a fraction as much to me as the speed issues. you get used to "botched invariant", "Comparing FROM and TO ...", "Applying 150 revisions .............................", the enormous amount of output from baz switch, etc. after a while. :)
<ddaa> bradb: speed issues: here, baz status on a launchpad tree takes 10s. Most merge and switch ops take less than a minute, it takes more time only when months old trees are involved.
<ddaa> bradb: how does that compare to you?
<bradb> i don't have exact numbers, except to say that it's a heck of a lot slower for me
<bradb> i don't use fl-cow though
<ddaa> using hardlinked trees gives you order of magnitude more speed on status/diff/commit. fl_cow makes that safe. Having a well hardlinked revlib makes merges much faster (brings the benefits of hardlinked trees into the revlib).
<bradb> i was kind of hoping to not have to
<bradb> and, well, it's not packaged for warty
<bradb> er, hoary even
<bradb> maybe it's in breezy though? i haven't upgraded yet.
<salgado> ddaa, about the months old trees; that matters only if not using --link? or it always matters?
<ddaa> bradb: I'm not using it personally, because i'm confortable enough to do it the unsafe way. But I have seen it deployed and it's quite simple not all that scary: the cow effect is restricted to specific directories.
<ddaa> bradb: ask lifeless for details, he's the debian maintainer for the thing.
<salgado> I'm using hardlinked trees without fl-cow and I'm not having any problems. fl-cow is only for safety?
<ddaa> salgado: it always matter, just because the delta grow so insanely huge. And not just patchlog, genuine source changes as well. But I think nobody should be using branch as out of date as what is used in importd production systems.
<ddaa> salgado: yes
<ddaa> fl-cow is just there to avoid corrupting your revlib when using a hardlinked tree and being careless.
<salgado> oh, wait a second. you were refering to months old trees or months old branches? my trees are ages old and I switch them everyday, but all my branches are fresh
<ddaa> I mean things like switching between launchpad head and the 1.22 production branch.
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: [r=kiko]  Fix a bug on the Malone front page where 'latest bugs' wasn't privacy aware, and thus causing inappropriate auth challenges when recent bugs included private bugs. (patch-2459: brad.bollenbach@canonical.com)
<salgado> so, if all my branches are fairly recent, this shouldn't be a problem for me?
<ddaa> salgado: the date at which your branch was created is hu...
<ddaa> irrelevent you will be assim.... gag
* bradb writes cherrypick mail
<ddaa> what matters is how far in time it is wrt to the other branches you merge/switch your tree with.
<salgado> ahhh, now I see
<kiko> good ole bradb 
<mpt> later all
<ddaa> SteveA: I'd like to get some team feedback about this FewerBazConflicts things. Maybe the issue is not where I think it is. I'd like to know who feel the have more conflicts than they should have. And those will be the raw matter for this BOF.
<ddaa> SteveA: so, I'd like if you could add something about that on tomorrow's meeting agenda. Should not take more than a couple of minutes.
<ddaa> * the raw material for
<sivang> jordi: I do make inside the geyes/docs dir, but it doesn't run
<sivang> make: *** No targets specified and no makefile found.  Stop.
<sivang> I ran automake instead of autogen as you said
<jordi> sivang: need to run automake and configure
<sivang> jordi: DOh, silly nme
<sivang> configure running
<sivang> jordi: done
* sivang trying to open the xml file in yelp
<sivang> weird. Something went wrong. I can't see my translations
<jordi> you see english?
<jordi> from the xml in the he/ dir?
<sivang> jordi: yes, although I can swear I transalted about 3 strings
<sivang> jordi: I think it ignored the he thingy altogether
<jordi> sivang: does the dxml have any hebrew at all?
<jordi> or is it just yelp?
<kiko> ddaa, why does baz consume so much memory?
<kiko> users are baz branching launchpad and blowing up at 500MB
<kiko> launchpad dead again
<ddaa> because it's buggy?
<kiko> and there's no way of working around this right?
<kiko> maybe adding a cachedrev?
* kiko looks at ddaa for hope
<sivang> kiko: can someone already branch launchapd ? :)
<ddaa> kiko: apparently this problem only occurs with branch and merge, so my guess would bet it has something to do with building full lists of ancestors in memory.
* ddaa punts to lifeless
<kiko> ddaa, how do I add a cachedrev manually?
<ddaa> kiko: I do not think that would help
<ddaa> but it would not hurt to try...
<kiko> I think it might
<kiko> lifeless added one for me once
<kiko> it helped
<sivang> jordi: the xml doesn't seem to have hebrew at all
<ddaa> kiko: baz cacherev REVISION
* Kinnison manages to branch launchpad quite easily
<kiko> rock
<ddaa> if you want to add a cacherev in anything but the default location, you need to specify an url in place of the archive name.
* Kinnison prods his local mirror
<kiko> okay
<sivang> jordi: I found the "problem" I was translating inside the POT file (need some sleep), putting it in the PO itself, displays hebrew nicely on yelp
<sivang> jordi: however, not alinged right. text is displayed correctly though
<sivang> jordi: does this help?
<kiko> ddaa, how long should this take?
<kiko> it's stuck running gpg
* Kinnison finds that caching a rev of launchpad takes a while
<ddaa> something roughly proportional to (size of the checkout)*(baz network suckiness)
<ddaa> IOW a loooong time
* Kinnison finds that the cacherev mostly takes the time of tar
<Kinnison> assuming it's already in the revlib
<kiko> I wonder why the last cacherev is 2322
<kiko> if we are in 2459
<ddaa> mh
<ddaa> that's a bug
<kiko> I see
<Kinnison> sounds like the autocacherev isn't working
<kiko> sounds like it 
<ddaa> it's strongly advised to make lifeless miserable about it until the baz used by pqm is fixed.
<kiko> that's why baz is eating up so much memory
<kiko> lifeless is all systems go on avoiding taking a pie in the face I think
<Kinnison> kiko: just add intermediate revs to your revlib
<kiko> I am happy
<ddaa> kiko: you are a manager, you are more qualified than I for harassing people
<kiko> if I take a pie in the face to make everybody more productive great
<kiko> what isn't great is that johan tested bzr yesterday and said that branching was slow
<kiko> I wonder what he means by slow
<Kinnison> kiko: was that on a system with local disc?
<ddaa> kiko: IAUI the bzr guys are cooking up a Twisted-based networking support that does not suck.
<kiko> Kinnison, indeed it was
<ddaa> weird
<Kinnison> kiko: coo
<kiko> he hasn't used baz yet though
<ddaa> I cannot see what could possibly take a long time in a bzr branch...
<kiko> everything's relative if you haven't used baz
<ddaa> ha... I guess it was doing ~ "cp -R"...
<ddaa> kiko: I heard there are things much worse
<ddaa> CVS for example
<kiko> it can't be slower though
<kiko> and launchpad dies
* ddaa gives kiko a larch
<kiko> was larch fast?
<ddaa> okay, see baz is faster than tla
<ddaa> now, consider something about 50x slower than tla
<kiko> my imagination isn't so good
<zyga> how much is baz faster than tla?
<ddaa> hard to measure, the speed up come for a good part from things like automatic cacherevs
<zyga> ah
<ddaa> but I'd say about 2x faster
<zyga> I'm a die-hard tla addict and never bothered to look seriously at baz
<ddaa> sometimes more, when e.g. the backbuilder kicks in.
<zyga> this gives me another reason to change habbits
<Kinnison> the backbuilder was cool
<zyga> does baz suck less than tla over nfs?
<ddaa> I think it sucks about the same.
<Kinnison> anything FS-heavy will suck over NFS
<ddaa> it still abuses the FS just as badly
#launchpad 2005-09-27
<zyga> heh, then I guess someone needs to write delayfs
<ddaa> sounds like a good idea actually
<zyga> delay underlying fs operations untill timeout ;-)
<Kinnison> baz is fook-fast in a ramdisc
<zyga> that was an intelligent joke I guess...
<ddaa> "benchmark how your code behaves with incrementally worse filesystem performance".
<Kinnison> huzzah, gina run on dogfood almost finished. only 13 failed binarypackage imports
<Kinnison> and some of those are due to sources which couldn't be imported rather than couldn't be found
<ddaa> Kinnison: I guess the failures include the kernel, OOo, Mozilla, and gcc?
<ddaa> like the bits that nobody uses anyway...
<zyga> heh
<zyga> fixing those packages is left as an exercise for the reader ;
<ddaa> Enough talk, I need to get more fixes in for the samba import.
<Kinnison> ddaa: zope3 (for zope3-lib)
<ddaa> SVN BUGS ARE FUTILE, YOU WILL BE IMPORTED!
<ddaa> (actually, I'm unfair, these are cscvs and pysvn bugs, not svn's fault)
<Kinnison> ddaa: gcc-2.95 (oddly)
<Kinnison> ddaa: some ruby crud, and a d-i manual
<ddaa> pretty good
<Kinnison> and a few whose SPs won't import due to version number h0rkage
* Kinnison needs to fix launchpad to accept the versions first
<ddaa> Kinnison: I propose the upstream theorem
* Kinnison looks blankly at ddaa
<ddaa> For any value of upstream, upstream does stupid things.
<Kinnison> Heh
<Kinnison> 20:49:08 WARNING Sourcepackage openoffice.org2 (1.9.125-1ubuntu2) (1.9.125+2.0beta2-1ubuntu2) not found for openoffice.org2 (1.9.125+2.0beta2-1ubuntu2)
<Kinnison> that's the annoying one
<Kinnison> I can see no reason why that failed
<ddaa> I knew it :)
<Kinnison> especially since earlier in that run it imported 1.9.125-1ubuntu2
* Kinnison thinks he's spotted a way to fix another six or so of these failures
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: [r=Keybuk]  fix #2361. make bugmail From: be the address of the person who made the change, Reply-To: be the bug address, and Sender: be the LP-wide bounce address. (patch-2460: brad.bollenbach@canonical.com)
* Kinnison realises he hasn't taken a workrave break all week
<Kinnison> bloody thing is suspended
* Kinnison rants
* ddaa kicks another local samba import after fixing two new bugs today, and heads for bed
* sivang hits bed
<sivang> good night all
<elmo> 1000     27048 24.1 27.3 1216676 1080420 ?     Ssl  Sep21 165:39      \_ python /srv/launchpad.net/production/launchpad/cronscripts/rosetta-poimport.py -q
<elmo> you guys know about that, right? :P
<spiv> elmo: That's exciting.
<spiv> Good thing hardware is so cheap ;)
<Kinnison> Woohoo, another six SPs imported okay
<Kinnison> only 7 left unimportable
<Kinnison> at least one of which truly is missing
<Kinnison> two...
<Kinnison> dunno wtf to do about one of 'em
<Kinnison> so two are missing
<Kinnison> one is bizarre
<Kinnison> and the other four are because of version numbers
* Kinnison bounces
<Kinnison> much better
<Kinnison> elmo: zope3 and qdvdauthor (both universe) both lack source
<elmo> qdvdauthor | 0.0.10-0.1 | breezy/multiverse | source
<elmo> qdvdauthor | 0.0.10-0.1 | breezy/universe | amd64, i386, powerpc
<elmo>      zope3 |   3.0.93-1 |        breezy | source, amd64, i386, ia64, powerpc, sparc
<elmo> no they don't?
<Kinnison> Why is the source in multiverse but the binaries in universe? (for qdvdauthor)?
<elmo> they shouldn't be; I've fixed that
<elmo> but source in one component, binaries in another is generally valid
<elmo> it's very common for source to be in main and binaries to be in universe, f.e.
<Kinnison> aye, but we weren't importing multiverse at all
<Kinnison> which was the snag there I guess
<Kinnison> launchpad@mawson:/srv/launchpad.ubuntu.com/dogfood/launchpad$ ls /srv/archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/universe/z/zope3/*
<Kinnison> /srv/archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/universe/z/zope3/zope3-doc_3.0.93-1_all.deb
<Kinnison> /srv/archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/universe/z/zope3/zope3-lib_3.0.91-1ubuntu1_amd64.deb
<Kinnison> /srv/archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/universe/z/zope3/zope3-lib_3.0.91-1ubuntu1_i386.deb
<Kinnison> /srv/archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/universe/z/zope3/zope3-lib_3.0.91-1ubuntu1_powerpc.deb
<elmo> Kinnison: pool/universe/
<elmo> Kinnison: try pool/main/
<Kinnison> aye, they're different versions
<Kinnison> that which was in main has been imported fine
<Kinnison> so 3.0.93-1 is fine
<Kinnison> 3.0.91-1ubuntu1 however (zope3-lib) is failing to import
<Kinnison> I'm guessing it's a dangling binary
<elmo> /srv/ftp.no-name-yet.com/ftp/pool/main/z/zope3/zope3_3.0.91-1ubuntu1.diff.gz
<elmo> /srv/ftp.no-name-yet.com/ftp/pool/main/z/zope3/zope3_3.0.91-1ubuntu1.dsc
<elmo> looks fine to me?
<Kinnison> bizarre
* Kinnison looks
<elmo> seriously - i know there are flaky parts of the katie, but the source reference counting is NOT one of them
<Kinnison> I believe you
* Kinnison glares at this
<Kinnison> oh one last one which is confusing me:
<Kinnison> 23:23:56 WARNING Sourcepackage debian-installer (20050317ubuntu15.0.200509200) not found for debian-installer-manual (20050317ubuntu15.0.200509200)
<elmo> heh
<elmo> blame lamont
<Kinnison> is that a bizarro bin-nmu or something?
<elmo> they're exploiting the lax bin-only NMU checks to do daily d-i builds
<elmo> yes, basically
<Kinnison> why is the Source: line wrong then?
<elmo> is it?  currently we don't have a bin-only NMU version but a real one in the archive
<Kinnison> dunno because this is an archive from 4am
<Kinnison> Package: debian-installer-manual
<Kinnison> Source: debian-installer
<Kinnison> Version: 20050317ubuntu15.0.200509200
<elmo> yeah, ok the source is wrong
<elmo> I guess it's an artifiact of how lamont's script works
<Kinnison> okay
<elmo> you may be able to get him and/or infinity to fix it
<Kinnison> right
<salgado> stub!
<stub> yo
<salgado> what patch number should I use for my basic-voting branch?
<stub> I havn't seen the patch yet, have I?
<salgado> stub: that patch to drop the unique constraint in Vote.token 
<stub> If that is the only change, I'll pre-approve it and give you patch number 25-29-0
<salgado> stub: this is the patch: https://chinstrap.ubuntu.com/~dsilvers/paste/fileSwV5Uo.html
<stub> salgado: That looks fine. Approved - 25-29-0
<salgado> cool. thank you
<sladen> can somebody kick launchpad.  It's still b0rken and hanging on page load
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: Simple and Condorcet polls (although the latter is disabled for now) for teams. r=BjornT (patch-2461: guilherme.salgado@canonical.com)
<zakame> hello all!
<zakame> is there a prob?  I'm getting a 502 when posting translations at rosetta
<stub> spiv: Librarian connections appear to be working differently than they used to. It used to keep about 10 connections open, and now it only opens connections when it needs them. 
<stub> Is this fallout from the transaction debugging, and does it mean the Librarian should no longer need bouncing after a database outage?
<spiv> stub: Yes and maybe. :)
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: [trivial]  Ensure specialized log handlers work for the root logger too and merge in production db patch (patch-2462: stuart.bishop@canonical.com)
<Burgundavia> should I be getting forbidden on this page? https://launchpad.net/malone
<SteveA> nope
<SteveA> it is because that page is trying to display a bug that is private to you
<SteveA> it's a bug
<SteveA> BjornT: around?
<Burgundavia> I get when I click on the bug tab on one of my bugs
<SteveA> we'll get it fixed shortly
<Burgundavia> cheers
<stub> Burgundavia: We already have a fix. It will be rolled out next Tuesday.
<SteveA> i don't think that's good enough.  i'm cooking up an instant fix.
<SteveA> stub: i have a minimal patch to production to fix the malone front page
<stub> SteveA: Branch, commit and email me and lifeless the branch
<SteveA> it's two lines in one .pt file.  can't i just log in and surgically change the file? ;-p
<stub> SteveA: Only if you want the fix nuked the next cherry pick
<SteveA> BORING
<SteveA> https://chinstrap.ubuntu.com/~dsilvers/paste/fileoOQjDF.html
<SteveA> there's the fix.  i'm making a branch...
<stub> You can do both if you want
<SteveA> Burgundavia: try malone now please.
<Burgundavia> works now
<Burgundavia> thanks for the quick fix
<SteveA> cool, thanks for reporting it.
<SteveA> stub: my archive is still mirroring, but i've mailed you and lifeless 
<stub> ok.
<SteveA> stub: do you know why when i run the launchpad tests, i get various lines of stuff on stderr?
<SteveA> is this the root logger sending these things out?
<SteveA> this happens when i run a subset of tests, like  python test.py canonical
<stub> I would need to see an example
<SteveA> 18:44:10 WARNING The plural form header has an unknown error. Using the default value...
<SteveA> 18:43:01 CRITICAL ***** Missed Dependency build needs manual intervention due MANUALDEPWAIT *****
<stub> Not necessarily the root logger - could be any logger
<SteveA> 18:40:49 ERROR   http://localhost:9000/cchangelog.html
<SteveA>  -> http://localhost:58000/36/36/tHq2ia1dvmO00LvrJ3M4seoSBnh.txt
<SteveA> it kinda hoses my dream of having a test suite with clean output ;-)
<stub> it would be quite possible to install a handler I think to catch tests that emit log messages and raise an exception.
<SteveA> okay, i'll ask for culprits in the meeting
<stub> That last one is interesting, as it indicates a subprocess is being run without redirecting stdout/stderr (and monitering it to ensure the output is what is expected)
<SteveA> i don't think the last one is for a subprocess
<SteveA> that's a just a page not found, a page test of a page that doesn't exist
<SteveA> i want to write some kind of test for the "shut down the socket if there are too many pending tasks" stuff
<SteveA> i found that in the example i sent you, for some reason, it isn't really running with multiple task threads
<stub> It is from a subprocess, as the only thing that installs the 'log exceptions to the librarian' is canonical.launchpad.scripts.logger
<stub> Unless there is something really screwy going on
<SteveA> i want to check we're running launchpad with the proper number of concurrent tasks, and also shutting down the socket and re-opening it as appropriate
<SteveA> a pagetest won't do, because this needs to be running outside of launchpad
<SteveA> so i thought of the following: have two pages on the debug layer; one that when rendered hangs until some global changes value, another that changes the value.  have these pages log progress to some file.
<SteveA> then, have the tester clear the file, run launchpad, get several of the "first page" pages with a second delay between gets, until the connection is refused.  check the connection is refused a few times.  then, get the second page.
<SteveA> aha.. here's where my logic fails
<SteveA> because of course the second page isn't accessible
<SteveA> so instead, have the first pages look at a file on the filesystem
<SteveA> have the file absent, and when it appears, have them continue
<stub> Can we just have a page that interrogates the Zope internals and reports? That might be good enough (although it doesn't prove that Z3 is working as it says it is, that should really be fixed by adding tests upstream)
<SteveA> well...
<SteveA> the problem is that we're testing the case when we want zope to not respond to queries
<SteveA> we could query the page on the production port, and test it on the debug port, i guess
<SteveA> i don't want to put a "wait indefinitely" page up on production, for obvious reasons
<SteveA> the ++etc++process stuff does something like this, i think
<stub> I don't see a problem if it is protected. Anyway, your test could install it by adding a view.
<stub> Unless you need to run a real Z3 instance
<SteveA> i need to run a real z3 instance
<SteveA> i could install these pages as overrides
<SteveA> so they'd exist only for the purposes of this test
<stub> Indeed, or even pages that are only loaded in the test environment
<SteveA> it wouldn't run in the test environment
<stub> The config machinery supports that right now
<SteveA> it would be a special "test the behaviour of the whole server" test environment
<SteveA> so, not a regular test environment
* stub is confusing himself
<stub> You should be able to test the 'don't accept more than n simultanous connections' code without running an entire Z3 instance, by just configuring and starting up a minimal HTTP server. I'm not sure why you need to worry about multiple threads when the only thing that needs its behavior tested is the HTTP server.
<stub> I'm worried that a test fixture that fires up an entire Z3 instance for poking at will make for flakey tests (the page tests are bad enough at that already)
<SteveA> not intending to run this test in the test suite
<SteveA> more for special diagnosis
<SteveA> as no application code will affect it
<SteveA> i'm concerned that we aren't really running multiple threads in production
<SteveA> i guess i could give it a one off manual test
<stub> I'm pretty certain we are running multiple threads because a bad rosetta page can lock up all four of them (and I can see what they are trying to do on emperor)
<SteveA> okay
<SteveA> does (FALSE OR TRUE) make any sense in sql ?
<lifeless> SteveA: most definately running multiple threads, we've seen them when debugging hangs
<SteveA> ok
<stub> SteveA: No - that only makes sense in Python
<SteveA> ok
<SteveA> is the "abort lengthy requests" code running on staging?
<stub> SteveA: The code might be there, but it isn't turned on.
<SteveA> can we turn it on for staging soon please
<stub> I'll refresh it
<SteveA> what timeout do you recommend?
<SteveA> hmm... got a major 500 from https://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/2491 just now
<SteveA> looks like an apache page
<SteveA> so maybe pound is down
<stub> SteveA: No - launchpad is accepting connections and not doing anything with them again. So pound is passing the requests through and never returning, so Apache gives up eventually
<SteveA> arse
<SteveA> can you cherrypick the "max requst length" stuff?
<stub> I think I should cherry pick that code into staging?
<stub> heh
<carlos> morning
<SteveA> let's bang on it in staging now, and get it to production asap
<SteveA> i was about to start work on getting the "socket shutdown" stuff into lp
<SteveA> i can aim it at production, if that'll help things
<SteveA> probably very little in this code, though
<mvo> hm, malone gives me a 502 proxy error when I try to update some bug info in malone. is that a known issue?
<ivoks> nice note guys :)
<ivoks>  Launchpad is offline at the moment for maintenance. It should be back, better than ever, soon.
<ivoks> is it only me or lp runs on speed of light now?
<stub> ivoks: Enjoy it while it lasts - it is having issues :-/
<stub> SteveA: Latest code is running on staging
<SteveA> stub: what's the timeout?
<stub> 2 seconds
<SteveA> ok
<SteveA> can you run a linkchecker over it and see which pages fail?
<ddaa> Hey SteveA, read the message I left for you in the backlog yesterday about FewerBazConflicts and today's agenda?
<SteveA> it can be on the agenda
<ddaa> Thanks.
<stub> SteveA: I've had linkchecker off for a while. It just can't cope with the number of URLs on launchpad at the moment and leaks RAM so it never completes
<SteveA> how about just running wget on it in mirror mode?
<Kinnison> Morning
<stub> SteveA: I could do that. No idea if it will ever finish.
<SteveA> doesn't matter, provided we get a log with pages that time out in it
<stub> Bah - I can't drive wget
<BjornT> SteveA: hi. i'm back now
<SteveA> BjornT: hi.  i was going to ask about the malone front page.  but i fixed it anyway.
<stub> https://chinstrap.ubuntu.com/~dsilvers/paste/filebhDT1c.html
<zyga> WaterSevenUb: morning
<BjornT> SteveA: ok, thanks
<WaterSevenUb> zyga, 'morning ;-) though..still sleeping
<SteveA> stub: that is lame.  try pointing it at +index
<stub> That gives me a 404 :-(
<stub> 127.0.0.1 - Anonymous [22/Sep/2005:10:44:30 +0100]  "HEAD /++vh++https:staging.ubuntu.com:443/++/+index HTTP/1.1" 404 214 "" "Wget/1.9.1"
* carlos leaves to the University
<carlos> will be back in about one or two hours
<stub> Oh - I think the issue is wget trying to create local files.
<stub> Despite me not wanting it too :-/
<SteveA> stub: i have a diff i want you to review.  it is small.
<SteveA> it is adding a facility for a "launchpad will be going down for maintenance in X minutes" message
<stub> wget -o spider.out -S -O /dev/null -r https://staging.ubuntu.com/ seems to do the trick, although the output isn't particularly parsable it should do
<SteveA> salgado can do a version of the template on the shipit layer to say "shipit" rather than launchpad
<SteveA> stub: mailed you a small diff
<stub> SteveA: You say 'root', but all the code looks for the file in the current working directory. What provides the guarantees that this will always be the launchpad root?
<SteveA> launchpad doesn't run if you don't run it from the root
<SteveA> it would be better to make this control file a config option, though
<SteveA> that way, you can have different control files for different processes on the same codebase
<stub> There is already config.root if you want to use it
<SteveA> having the filename explcicitly in the config would make it more discoverable
<SteveA> what do you want me to do?
<Kinnison> is it resultset.count() to get the COUNT(*) ?
<stub> SteveA: That all looks fine, although you should attempt to remove os.system from your brain and embrase subprocess.call instead.
<stub> SteveA: So merge it.
<stub> So do we have someone maintaining the production systems who actually keeps to a schedule now?
<SteveA> okay.  i'll set up the shipit version, and then merge it.
<SteveA> dunno, but even given 10 mins notice will be a great improvement
<SteveA> it will stop people from entering stuff into forms, and then have it fail
<spiv> Kinnison: Yes.
<Kinnison> spiv: cool
<Kinnison> spiv: I've put a gina branch on your list for review
<spiv> Ok, I'll take a look.
<Kinnison> spiv: and I'll have a small dominator fix for you to look at soon too
<spiv> Sure.
<stub> I've found a +translations page that locks staging solid :-/
<SteveA> wahey
<SteveA> so, it doesn't trigger the abort DB stuff?
<stub> Nope - I'll debug it a bit more to determine if it is a single query or lots of little ones
<SteveA> kinda rude that the abort db stuff isn't working
<ddaa> lifeless: yay! while working on the samba problems, I isolate the quake3 problem :)
<lifeless> ddaa: lol. nice
<ddaa> Here's the quake3 problem: PatchedFile.apply does noop when trying to apply a diff between binary files.
<ddaa> -> need to detect "binary files differ" kind of diffs and fallback to overwriting in those cases.
<SteveA> eeeew... the new slashdot CSS removes the underlining on links you hover over
<Kinnison> bizarre
<ddaa> lifeless: BTW, I have been bothering some #svn folks yesterday, and they say that the python subversion bindings in the next release will be MUCH improved.
* lifeless holds is breath.
<ddaa> I'm not sure how relevent that is to us, but I think that in the long term we should be moving the svn_oo stuff to something vaguely sane...
<ddaa> a big part of my work recently is working around bugs and limitations of pysvn
<lifeless> ddaa: indeed, thats why svn_oo exists, I tried to just use pysvn.. HAH
<ddaa> lifeless: you know that pysvn is _not_ the official bindings
<lifeless> ddaa: one of the two we use is
<lifeless> ddaa: I started with the official one, which didn't have a 'commit' that worked.
<ddaa> well, yes, but in the code I saw pysvn is very much predominant...
<ddaa> ha, no commit... that sounds annoying.
<lifeless> theres a reason for that.
<Kinnison> Anyone know why:
<Kinnison> ProgrammingError: ERROR:  deadlock detected
<Kinnison> DETAIL:  Process 29282 waits for ShareLock on transaction 12797011; blocked by process 2222.
<Kinnison> Process 2222 waits for ShareLock on transaction 12794766; blocked by process 29282.
<Kinnison> would happen in a single-threaded app?
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: [trivial]  Update database documentation and diagrams (patch-2463: stuart.bishop@canonical.com)
<lifeless> Kinnison: single threaded != single connection
<lifeless> Kinnison: i.e. librarian
<Kinnison> lifeless: right
<stub> Yay - not only does this page execute an SQL command that takes 164 seconds to execute, it does it (at least) twice.
<Kinnison> woo
<Kinnison> missing indexes? obvious brokenness? or just plain knackering SQL?
<SteveA> stub: and the system doesn't abort it?
<SteveA> Kinnison: the system should be aborting such queries
<stub> Nope. I'm not seeing it issue the 'stop long running queries' to the postgresql backend (although I have seen it when running locally).
<stub> I'll need to step through it with a debugger to see wtf the option isn't being triggered or executed.
<segfault> no way to connect to LP today?
<stub> But I'm looking into the dud query at the moment
<Kinnison> SteveA: I see. I hope that's only something the webapp turns on?
<SteveA> yes
<SteveA> only the webapp
<SteveA> we'll turn it on for xmlrpc too
<Kinnison> right
<SteveA> but not yet
<Kinnison> 'cos the publisher sometimes runs queries which can take up to 2 minutes to return
<Kinnison> although that may be assisted with judicious indexing
* Kinnison does a dogfood update, noone using it right now?
<stub> Kinnison: I thought you were the only person left using dogfood?
<Kinnison> I may be
<Kinnison> but it's always worth checking
<Kinnison> If I get a changeset with 'baz undo'
<Kinnison> sorry, with 'baz diff -o ,,blah'
<Kinnison> can I apply it (in reverse) to another tree with baz apply-changeset --reverse ,,blah ?
<SteveA> launchpad developers meeting in about half an hour.  /msg me agenda items
<SteveA> cprov: what
<SteveA> cprov: what's PBR?
<cprov> SteveA: PVR, sorry (Personal Video Recorder)
<SteveA> i see
<niemeyer> Good morning!
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: r=stub add 'launchpad (or shipit) is going down for maintenance' facility. (patch-2464: steve.alexander@canonical.com)
<lifeless> bombs away
<Kinnison> pardon?
<lifeless> sent off my 81K patch for bzr-twisted for thoughts and feedback
<spiv> lifeless: Whee!
<Kinnison> lifeless: is that a shiny twisted xmlrpc server for bzr?
<lifeless> Kinnison: hell no
<Kinnison> what is then?
<lifeless> Kinnison: its twistified bzr, which is 15 minutes to pull, not 93.
<SteveA> meeting in 3.5 or so
<Kinnison> lifeless: cool
<Kinnison> lifeless: is there a bzr development mailing list?
<lifeless> bazaar-ng@l.c.c
<Kinnison> righty
<SteveA> how much traffic?
<spiv> This much traffic: http://gmane.org/details.php?group=gmane.comp.version-control.bazaar-ng.general ;)
<spiv> (look!  pretty graphs!  ooh!)
<SteveA> mpt, salgado: i just landed a "shipit (or launchpad) is going down for maintenance" page
<SteveA> could do with UI love
<mpt_> SteveA: Such a page already exists
<SteveA> s/page/message on main template/
<mpt_> SteveA: launchpad/offline.html
<SteveA> this is a message about goin down soon
<Kinnison> meeting time
<mpt_> oh, goING
<mpt_> ok
<SteveA> MEETING TIME
<SteveA> who is here?
<salgado> me
<BjornT> me
* Kinnison is here
<spiv> me
<mpt_> I'm here, but I won't be for much longer
<SteveA> kiko-zzz: ?
<lifeless> I appear to be
<mpt_> I'll probably need to leave early
<jblack> me
<jamesh> me
<bradb> me
<SteveA> mpt_: /msg me 3 sentences, activity report status, any points to raise
<mpt_> yep
<SteveA> carlos: ?
<SteveA> jordi: ?
<SteveA> mpool? (lifeless...)
<lifeless> SteveA: I've pung
<SteveA> ta
<SteveA> cprov: ?
<SteveA> hi gustavo
<SteveA> salgado: what about gnueman and diogo?
<SteveA> hi kiko
<kiko> SteveA, they're still not aware of the 9am meeting I believe
<kiko> but should be around shortly
<niemeyer> Hello
<cprov> sorry, found another wireless network
<kiko> we'll set them up for next week
<kiko> hello hello
<niemeyer> I have some network issues here..
<SteveA> stub: ?
<mpt_> gneuman's just arrived
<mpt_> and there's diogo
<kiko> and so have diogo
<SteveA> hi matsubara 
<stub> yo
<kiko> heya stub 
<matsubara> hi steve
<SteveA> okay, let's go.  /msg me other items for the agenda, which so far is...
<mpool> oh
<mpool> not -meeting
<SteveA> == Agenda ==
<SteveA>  - roll call
<SteveA>  - agenda
<SteveA>  - activity reports
<SteveA>  - production and staging (stub)
<SteveA>  - ddaa's item (ddaa)
<SteveA>  - launchpad breezy archive (kinnison)
<SteveA>  - test suite spew (stevea)
<SteveA>  - three sentences
<SteveA> 
<SteveA> activity reports: who's in with the in crowd?
<mpool> me
* SteveA isn't.
* bradb is bangin'
<lifeless> IN
* Kinnison is IN da crowd
<BjornT> me
<spiv> I missed Friday, but otherwise I'm IN.
<stub> Except for monday, which is sitting in gtimelog waiting for me to extract it
<cprov> in
<ddaa> hey
* jamesh isn't
<jblack> in
* salgado is in
<ddaa> hu, I mean uptodate
<kiko> I am up to date
* kiko rocks
<mpt_> up to yesterday
<SteveA> jamesh: so, you and me need to improve
<SteveA> jamesh: can you send one for today?
<jamesh> okay
<kiko> just keep gtimelog open and keep scribbling in it
<SteveA>  - production and staging (stub)
<SteveA> ta
<kiko> it's easy
* SteveA has gtimelogs.  needs for format into emails
<SteveA> stub: status and updates to production and staging please
<stub> production and staging are locking up. I've tracked down the dud pages - there are some queries that look like they simply will not work for some of our more verbose translators.
<stub> Also the 'kill queries that take too long' code is not being activated on staging or production for some reason I havn't had a chance to look into yet.
<stub> So production has been locking up regularly.
<SteveA> also also... pound doesn't seem to be doing its balancing act
<kiko> yesterday evening was a crackup
<stub> Yes - which doesn't help either.
* carlos is here, sorry for the delay
<stub> I need elmo to look into that since I can't see the Pound logs.
* sivang is late but now on the meeting
<SteveA> hi sivang 
<sivang> hey SteveA  :)
<carlos> SteveA, I'm up to date with activity reports
<SteveA> so, what's the plan stub?
<SteveA> can the queries be optimized?
<stub> Otherwise, staging is back onto daily syncs and the whitespace migration script running right now (over a days runtime to go)
* kiko cheers for the end of whitespace
<carlos> kiko, finally!
* SteveA cheersfortheendofwhitespacetoo
<stub> SteveA: I don't think so. There are just too many rows involved for some people - creating special indexes and forcing postgresql to use them isn't helping. There are a few tricks to try, but I don't hold out hope.
<kiko> stub, do you have a list of problematic pages?
<stub> So we might need to remove some stuff from the dud pages as simply can't be done.
<kiko> also, jamesh' request time-outer may help
<SteveA> kiko: it isn't be activated in production / staging
<SteveA> kiko: for unknown reasons
<stub> kiko: I have 1 confirmed, and can guess a handful of others that will exhibit the same behavior.
<kiko> SteveA, isn't be?
<stub> But I' not going to mention them in a public channel since accessing them currently locks launchpad.
<kiko> stub, file the bugs and I'll look at them
<kiko> might just disable bits and pieces
<SteveA> kiko: the timeout stuff isn't being activated in production/staging
<kiko> stub, can you hold onto the production cutoff till tomorrow morning?
<jamesh> kiko: it needs publication changes to properly time out multiple queries
<SteveA> kiko: for unknown reasons
<SteveA> jamesh: i made the publication changes
<kiko> wb niemeyer 
<stub> sure - I can tag production whenever.
<SteveA> jamesh: works  on dev boxes
<jamesh> kiko: cool
<kiko> stub, I would like some shipit changes and carlos' code to land
<carlos> kiko, but I need first the review...
<niemeyer> Hi again.. hope to stay here for some time now.
* kiko elbows carlos 
<SteveA> okay... any other production / staging issues?
<stub> Isn't that enough?
<kiko> yeah
<lifeless> what issues would you like ?
<SteveA> i'll be doing the pound-failover-socket-shutdown stuff this afternoon
<SteveA> so it would be nice to make pound actually failover
<SteveA>  - ddaa's item (ddaa)
<SteveA> ddaa: speak!
<ddaa> I hear a lot of grumbling about baz. I am under the impression the biggest problems fall in two broad categories:
<ddaa> 1. way too slow: at this point you _need_ to use hardlinked trees to get any decent performance. You _should_ use fl-cow with hardlinked trees to avoid risking corrupting your revision library. Ask lifeless for details about fl-cow. Ask any bazaar guy for details about hardlinked trees.
<stub> SteveA: are you able to chace the 'why pound is no longer load balancing' stuff with elmo or Znarl today?
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--production--1.33: Cherry pick FixMaloneFrontPageHack into production 1.33 (patch-7: steve.alexander@canonical.com)
<SteveA> stub: sure willdo
<ddaa> 2. way too many conflicts: if you think you have chronically more conflicts than you should have, it's probably because you have a workflow problem. And the pain will persist regardless of the tool. We want to make a FewerBazConflicts BOF to diagnose the problems and propose fixes.
<Kinnison> ddaa: fl-cow no worky on breezy (currently)
<ddaa> But for that we need direct participation from the boys who have those problems. My perception might be wrong, so I want know who will attend this BOF to provide input before having it scheduled. Who will want to attend and provide input to a FewerBazConflicts BOF?
<ddaa> lifeless: fl-cow needs fixing on breezy apparently
<lifeless> ddaa: I plan to have a peek this weekend
<lifeless> its probably a libc issue
<ddaa> So, who think he has more conflicts than he should and will provide input to this BOF?
* kiko doesn't 
<SteveA> i have the correct number of conflicts
<mpool> ddaa: tree shape conflicts or text conflicts?
<SteveA> although i did have one odd conflict the other day
<SteveA> which on reflection wasn't so odd -- text moved from one file to another
<cprov> ddaa: I'm in, even fl-cow helps me, still in hoary and would be glad to expose the problems I have in the nasty "builddUI" branch
<ddaa> anyboby else thinks this BOF is worthwhile?
<ddaa> ... apparently no
<ddaa> My perception must have been incorrect.
<mpool> i'd be interested
<mpool> at least as far as things to avoid
* Kinnison thinks it's worthwhile but cannot find exact details of odd conflicts
* Kinnison has had them in the past
<ddaa> Kinnison: we cannot do it unless we have concrete input.
<Kinnison> ddaa: hence I was quiet
<SteveA> so, i propose...
<stub> I'm happy with conflict stuff. I get them when I expect. 
<Kinnison> ddaa: I'm interested but cannot provide concrete input yet
<SteveA> that we all take care to notice odd conflicts over the next couple of weeks
<cprov> ddaa: I'm sure they were my mistake somepoint, just want to figure out where ...
<SteveA> and bring such to the attention of ddaa
<SteveA> agreed, ddaa?
<ddaa> I'm mostly thinking about "1234 conflicts in this tree" cases.
<ddaa> merely odd conflicts can be caused by mere diff3 suckiness.
* SteveA wants to move it along...
<ddaa> move
<mpool> ok
<SteveA>  - new trainees (kiko)
<kiko> so we have two trainees starting this week
<kiko> they are matsubara and gneuman 
* stub waves
<kiko> you may have noticed bugspam generated by them these past days
<matsubara> hello all
<kiko> gneuman is being trained for a QA and fixer position
<carlos> hi
<kiko> matsubara for a full-time developer position
<cprov> matsubara: hi
<stub> fixer? official Canonical dealer or something?
<kiko> stub, precisely. we've got their local working environment set up, using an rsynced rocketfuel for now
* lifeless needs a fix
<kiko> lifeless, just file the bug :-P
<lifeless> kiko: ppfft
<sivang> LOL
<kiko> so help them out, and nudge them towards a greater understanding of our applications
<kiko> that is all from me
<SteveA> welcome matsubara and gneuman 
<SteveA>  - who is using breezy? (stevea)
<mpool> welcome
<SteveA> all using breezy, say "aye!"
* Kinnison has a hoary desktop and a breezy laptop
<mpool> nay
<spiv> aye!
<jamesh> aye
<sivang> aye!
<niemeyer> aye!
* SteveA says "aye" for his laptop, but not his desktop
<mpt> aye, but not at work
<jamesh> (upgraded my main machine today)
<ddaa> nope
* BjornT tried to install breezy but failed
* bradb doesn't say "aye"
<jblack> aye, on 10 systems, nay on 1
<lifeless> aye
<mpt> bradb: "noe"
* carlos wants to update but he's scared....
<SteveA> BjornT: is someone on the distro team helping you?
<gneuman> hwllo SteveA 
<mpool> i have it installed, but something broke and i gave up
<mpool> will try again
<kiko> stub, btw, you haven't disabled the https proxy yet
<SteveA> carlos: get support from the distro team
<stub> did too! (?)
<SteveA> mpool: distro team will help you
<carlos> SteveA, I'm scared with the launchpad development tools
<carlos> the distro itself is easy
<BjornT> SteveA: well, two bugs are filed about it. i haven't had time to look into it more, but i might try to get some help this weekend
<SteveA> BjornT: what are the bugs?
<jamesh> took a little time getting postgres-8.0 set up after upgrading, but I didn't run into any big issues
<SteveA> the distro team are very keen on us using breezy early
<SteveA> but the other side of that is that they can help us out to get it running
<carlos> ok
<SteveA> jamesh: we don't need postgres8 though, surely
<BjornT> SteveA: basically the same bug, neither grub nor lilo can be installed. they don't like my partition table
<stub> kiko: I updated one of the cronjobs,  but missed the important one ;)
<SteveA> BjornT: get me the number, and i'll hassle the distro team
<lifeless> SteveA: thats whats in breezy
<kiko> stub, you're terrible :)
<SteveA> everyone who hasn't upgraded to breezy, please do so soon
<kiko> SteveA, this weekend for the async diskless and me
<SteveA>  - launchpad breezy archive (kinnison)
<spiv> lifeless: I'm using postgres 7.4 from breezy just fine...
<Kinnison> Right
<BjornT> SteveA: #15743 and #7506
<Kinnison> as per my email to launchpad@ last night/this morning, I have managed to get breezy imported and re-published from launchpad well enough to upgrade my laptop to breezy
* Kinnison urges anyone who has not yet upgraded, and intends to soon, to use the dogfood archive instead of the main one and report any issues to me
<Kinnison> it's not signed, so you have to put up with apt whinging
<Kinnison> the deb line you'll need is on http://wiki.launchpad.ubuntu.com/BreezyDogfooding
<sivang> Kinnison: is it polling baz archive of all of the distro and repackas for use?
<Kinnison> sorry, https://wiki.launchpad.canonical.com/BreezyDogfooding
<Kinnison> This is currently a direct import of the main sources/binaries
<Kinnison> and it's only source+i386
<carlos> Kinnison, are those packages built with launchpad's tools?
<SteveA> sivang: this is breezy, but built using the brand new build infrastructure
<carlos> cool
<sivang> SteveA, Kinnison : wow :)
<SteveA> many many hours of work from Kinnison and cprov
<Kinnison> These binaries are not rebuilt
<Kinnison> There is another archive which contains binaries being rebuilt
<Kinnison> but we've not got that automated yet
<SteveA> ok
<Kinnison> the rebuilt archive is called foodix instead of ubuntu
<SteveA> this is important dogfooding stuff for launchpad and ubuntu
<Kinnison> and the distrorelease is called breezyfood
<SteveA> those who haven't upgraded to breezy, seriously consider using this to upgrade
<Kinnison> cprov will mail the list once breezyfood is rebuilding stuff
<SteveA> gotta move on, still two more items
<SteveA>  - announcement (mpool)
<kiko> (should I hold off upgrading until you guys are building, Kinnison, cprov?)
<cprov> yes, we still working on chroot for breezyfood
* kiko would prefer to use foodix
<sivang> Kinnison: would it be worhwhile if I tried that upgrade just for sake of testing launchpad build infra ?
<lifeless> Kinnison: random thought, have you done a diff against archive.ubuntu .. ?
<SteveA> mpool: ?
* SteveA encourages mpool to take advantage of the asynchronous nature of irc meetings
<Kinnison> sivang: If you would, that would be helpful
<cprov> kiko: I'll try the shadow today in one desktop 
<Kinnison> lifeless: there are a few small changes needed to the publisher before we can do that
<sivang> Kinnison: let's discuss the details afterwards.
<Kinnison> sivang: sure
<Kinnison> sivang: jabber me to chat
<SteveA> thanks sivang.
<sivang> Kinnison: cool
<kiko> rock
<lifeless> mpool: ping
<SteveA> as mpool seems to be afk, 
<SteveA>  - test suite spew (stevea)
<mpool> oh, i just wanted to announce that bzr's weave-based storage is now working
<mpool> no just typing
<mpool> i'm very pleased
<mpool> it took longer than i wanted
<mpool> software being what it is
<SteveA> that's great news
<mpool> but it considerably rocks: smaller, therefore should be faster on teh network, especially with robert's stuff
<mpool> quite fast
<lifeless> When this hits mainline, I'll be redoing the demo bzr launchpad on chinstrap
<niemeyer> Great work Martin
<mpool> and a good position for better annotate/merge and so on
<lifeless> which will make that time(<lifetime) to download ;0
<mpool> yep
<kiko> mpool, a branch of bzr itself appeared to take a long time to run
<mpool> yep 
<mpool> that's putting it politely :)
<kiko> will that improve now?
<lifeless> kiko: YES
<mpool> these two things will make it much better
<niemeyer> mpool: When do you plan to merge that with mainline?
<kiko> rock and roll
<lifeless> kiko: I'm guessing ~1 minute once both land.
<kiko> wow
<kiko> fun
<lifeless> kiko: but I may be overly optimistic.
<kiko> (lifeless, can you approve matsubara and gneuman's list requests, btw?)
<mpool> i plan to make a 0.0.9 bugfix, then merge from mailine into the weave branch, then declare that mainline
<lifeless> kiko: what requests ?
<spiv> lifeless: Don't forget to factor in Brazilian bandwidth in your calculations ;)
<kiko> lifeless, don't you read email?
<kiko> lifeless, subscriptions to arch-commits
<lifeless> kiko: sure I do
<mpool> in other words will start reconciling tomorrow
<kiko> spiv, very important remark
<mpool> spiv: it's pretty shitty for us too, since it's going all the way to the uk
<niemeyer> mpool: Very nice!
<mpool> anyhow
<mpool> dumb server support is definitely a popular feature
<mpool> but we have to do the work to make it tolerably fast
<mpool> that's all from me
<SteveA> cool
<SteveA>  - test suite spew (stevea)
<mpool> bring your pie-eating shoes, kiko :)
<SteveA> when i ran the tests recently, i got a lot of curous stuff on stderr
<SteveA> who added it?  what's it for?
<mpt> ok, time for me to go
<kiko> mpool, even when I lose, I win
<mpt> SteveA has my sentences
<SteveA> 18:40:17 ERROR   http://localhost:9000/codeofconduct/donkey/index.html
<SteveA>  -> http://localhost:58000/35/35/jbhAtOEr8s2wTQ7Uyceb8trZ4UH.txt
<SteveA> i don't have mpt's sentences
<lifeless> thats not my donkey
<SteveA> because he didn't authenticate with NickServ
<kiko> SteveA, don't worry, he'll be back on
<kiko> lifeless?
<SteveA> 18:41:44 WARNING PO file header entry has no content-type field
<SteveA> there's another example
<SteveA> 18:43:01 WARNING Disabling: No CHROOT found for pocket 'Release'
<spiv> SteveA: /msg nickserv set unfiltered on
<SteveA> and another
<carlos> SteveA, I saw them also, but I didn't add them ....
<carlos> (the ones related to Rosetta)
<SteveA> so, who's been doing stuff with logging recently?
<stub> me
<kiko> not me
<SteveA> i want the test runner not to spew stuff when tests run okay
<kiko> SteveA, even if there are warnings?
<SteveA> and to spew minimally when something goes wrong
<kiko> these are warnings that are pertinent, you know..
<SteveA> warnings are collected and categorized at the end of the test run
<lifeless> kiko:  if the warning matters the tesst should be grabbing it and testing for it
<SteveA> these are not all warnings that are pertinent
<lifeless> kiko: theres a log collector you can use to do that.
<kiko> lifeless, the point is that the test isn't
<SteveA> these are spew about things like 404 pages
<jamesh> possibly the tests in question should be using a dummy logger
<kiko> lifeless, so the test should be fixed
<SteveA> that are being explicitly tested for
<lifeless> kiko: and if it doesn't matter, it should be hidden.
<kiko> but unless we see the warnings they are hidden
<jamesh> if the intent is to test that a particular input generates a log message
<SteveA> the test running infrastructure collects in-process warnings and logs them
<SteveA> i don't want random spew
<kiko> jamesh, agreed. I agree that not all warnings are pertinent either.
<SteveA> so, who added this?
<kiko> but I think that hiding warnings is not a good idea
<lifeless> but you don't mind deliberate spew? Ignore me, I'm still thinking about that poor donkey.
<SteveA> NO SPEW!
<SteveA> right, let's talk about this later, and work out exactly why it is spewing
<jamesh> kiko: not hiding warnings -- collecting them and testing that the messages generated match what you expected
<SteveA> now, it's time for the tree sentences
<SteveA> um, three sentences
<kiko> oh-oh
<SteveA> please go ahead
<lifeless> DONE: asyncification of bzr, MUCH performance and ui love resulted.
<lifeless> TODO: gpg, face-pie avoidance
<lifeless> BLOCKED: de nada
<mpool> "i think that i will never see"
<ddaa> DONE: some love to python and samba imports
<ddaa> TODO: python and samba imports, importd-archivelocation, land london sprint, upgrade to breezy
<ddaa> BLOCKED: no
<salgado> DONE: Fixed a lot of small bugs, finally merged basic-voting--1, more work on ShipItNG
<salgado> TODO: Get shipit exports working, and some other things Marilize requested
<salgado> BLOCKED: No
<carlos> DONE: Holidays, languagepacks, poimports
<spiv> DONE: Reviews, Librarian and authserver updates, helped Robert with his bzr/twisted stuff.
<spiv> TODO: Reviews, AuthserverCaching, Supermirror SFTP work.
<spiv> BLOCKED: No.
<Kinnison> DONE: buildd work, publisher work, dominator work, gina work. Got laptop upgraded to breezy from dogfood re-published breezy archive *wooyay*
<Kinnison> TODO: support bin-nmu in gina, fix SP refcounting in dominator, get dogfood updating on cron, actually get down to working on uploader again, and sort out suspend again on laptop :-)
<niemeyer> DONE: 2 more days of London sprint, binary deltas for bzr weaves, executable bit tracking on bzr, more research.
<niemeyer> TODO: Continue work on bzr.
<niemeyer> BLOCKED: Nope
<jblack> DONE: advocacy work
<mpool> DONE: weave storage and conversion working!
<cprov> DONE: buildUI and build-scoring merge in RF
<cprov> TODO: missed UI pages, scoring according build-deps, foodix/breezyfood building
<cprov> BLOCKED: myself ;(
<jblack> FUTURE: advocacy work
<Kinnison> BLOCKED: Slowed in general by mawson's speed, hence long days recently. Otherwise able to plod along.
<kiko> DONE: set up trainees, work out shipit, random QA, lots of other things I won't remember
<jblack> BLOCKED: None
<bradb> DONE: Landed Malone URL changes. Landed bugmail headers Reply-To/From/Sender fix. Landed various other bugfixes.
<carlos> TODO: Final languagepacks checks and kill all errors from poimport script
<mpt> DONE: landed deactionizing, LaunchpadMenus work, gnome-screensaver design, bug fixes
<kiko> FUTURE: try out the spec tracker, more of this
<bradb> TODO: Make sure Malone menus are working superbly. Feedback/error/success message desuckification. Beg that Launchpad not lock up because that just sucks.
<BjornT> DONE: converted bug search listings to new format. started to spec out email interface for the ticket tracker. some work on pre-defined bug reports. reviews.
<bradb> BLOCKED: No.
<SteveA> DONE: menus, availability work, reviews
<SteveA> TODO: menus, availability work, reviews
<SteveA> BLOCKED: no
<BjornT> TODO: pre-defined bug reports. outgoing emails for the ticket tracker.  fix email wrapping bug.
<kiko> BLOCKED: no
<BjornT> BLOCKED: no
<carlos> BLOCKED: None
<mpool> TODO: merge mainline into it, take outstanding patches, cut over
<mpt> TODO: polish up LaunchpadMenus, finish support tracker cleanup, more bug fixes
<mpool> BLCOKED: no
<mpt> BLOCKED: no
<kiko> SteveA, sorry, fucked up FUTURE with TODO for some reason :-(
* kiko blames jblack 
<Kinnison> SteveA: I have to go now :-(
<SteveA> okay
* Kinnison waves
<jblack> Whoops
<SteveA> cheers
<jamesh> DONE: reviews, request timeout branch, upgrade to breezy
<jamesh> TODO: scheduler thing, calendar code, reviews
<jamesh> BLOCKED: no
<jblack> TODO: advocacy work
<Kinnison> thanks steve
<sivang> bye Kinnison 
<SteveA> no one is blocked then?
<SteveA> anyone lack reasonable TODO items?
<SteveA> (kiko and i can check through later)
<stub> DONE: BrowserNotificationMessages
<stub> TODO: Polish off BrowserNotificationMessages, with example page to give to mpt to tart up
<stub> BLOCKED: Production errors
<SteveA> stub: i'll talk with the admins about pound
<SteveA> okay, that's it.
<SteveA> MEETING ENDS
<SteveA> cheers folks
<SteveA> oh, same time next week...
<lifeless> k
* ..[topic/#launchpad:SteveA] : Discussion with Launchpad users and developers. || https://launchpad.net/ || Includes Rosetta and Malone. || Developers' meeting, Thursday 22 Sep, 12:00 UTC || Advocacy meeting, Thursday 29, 15:00 UTC
* mpt really leaves this time
<carlos> ok
<SteveA> um
* ..[topic/#launchpad:SteveA] : Discussion with Launchpad users and developers. || https://launchpad.net/ || Includes Rosetta and Malone. || Developers' meeting, Thursday 29 Sep, 12:00 UTC || Advocacy meeting, Thursday 29, 15:00 UTC
<ddaa> mpool: basically the things to avoid are departing too much from star-topology
<kiko> thanks SteveA 
<kiko> rock rock
<ddaa> lifeless: I need to talk to you about PatchedFile
<lifeless> ok
<lifeless> talk
<ddaa> lifeless: how important is it to use diff/patch?
<ddaa> that's the source of many problems
<lifeless> I don't care a rats
<lifeless> it just seemed the only sane way to get stuff out of svn
<ddaa> lifeless: so it's okay to do a svn cat instead and overwrite contents, all the time?
* carlos -> lunch
<lifeless> sure
<lifeless> I guess.
<ddaa> I think it would work. It just annoys me I put in some much plumbing on the assumption we avoided that.
<lifeless> ok, sounds good
<ddaa> lifeless: also, the #svn guy has been talking was quite critic on the not using the taylor approach.
* bradb & # bbl
<lifeless> mmm
<ddaa> I do think that would have saved a LOT of trouble with SVN.
<lifeless> 'tailor approach' ? sequential copy over a whole tree ?
<ddaa> basically, yes
<ddaa> and letting svn do the update voodoo
<lifeless> very hard to tell what is actually happening if you do that
* sivang needs to go for some time, be back later
<ddaa> bah... I'm too tired to argue about it again.
<ddaa> I really hate cscvs, should just focus on making it work somehow and be done with it :(
* ddaa -> lunch
<kiko> ddaa, AIUI cscvs will be around forever
<lifeless> If we want to do it different for every different system, I guess we can
<ddaa> "focus on making it work somehow, be done with it", rinse, repeat
<ddaa> I need fud.
<lifeless> its come a hell of a long way since we started, is -much- cleaner.
<lifeless> I think its just a hard problem to do well.
<lifeless> you do know that tailor's svn thing is bust right ?
<ddaa> One thing I do hate about it, is that every time I go to a foreign chan to ask questions, people thing I'm stupid and doing stupidly wrong things without realising it.
<ddaa> While the situation I'm in is entirely not my doing.
<kiko> lifeless, I think you're right that it's a hard problem to do well. very hard.
<ddaa> And that pisses the hell out of me.
<lifeless> ddaa: sure, I get that too. the svn guys are suggesting something that cannot work for rcs or cvs. How much hair would it add to do different repos fundamentally differently ?
<lifeless> so, they have their opinions, and where they add useful info, lets put that into our future plans list
<lifeless> but don't let them get you down - they ain't accomplished over 500 conversions
<ddaa> whatever, their stuff does not go to eat gigabytes of memory while converting gcc
<lifeless> it also gets it wrong
<ddaa> so you say
<lifeless> so gcc is a heavy user of aliases last I checked. and cvs2svn doesn't do them at all
<ddaa> and our infrastructure just does not support configs
<ddaa> it's just filters stuff out
<lifeless> which is a marked improvement imo. anyway, you sound plain frustrated.
<ddaa> not even mentioning the dozens production failures I do not even have the time to start looking at
<ddaa> I am.
<lifeless> I think that that is reasonable. You have a challenging role.
<ddaa> I really need lunch, I'm starting to feel really bad.
* ddaa is out
<lifeless> Please remember though, that the folk you are talking with, particularly cvs2svn guys are solving a different problem
<lifeless> enjoy lunch.
<lifeless> for when you get back, the problem they are solving is one shot, convert and dump. we're not, we're solving long term syncronisation. seriously different stuff.
<cprov> lifeless:   mako@deseo.yukidoke.org still in activity@list.ubuntu.com and delivery is failing, could you remove this address from the maillisting ? 
<Treenaks> brokenness is known, right?
<kiko> Treenaks, server down again?
<Treenaks> kiko: launchpad access has been flaky all day
<Treenaks> kiko: sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't
<Treenaks> kiko: + all the timeouts I had yesterday _if_ it works
<kiko> Treenaks, we've been having problems with database performance, unfortunately
<kiko> stub's looking into it
<Treenaks> kiko: hmm.. ok
<salgado> SteveA, around?
<Kinnison> kiko: fancy doing a quick review of two small publisher fixes?
<Kinnison> one is trivial really, the other is large because I moved a block of code as well as fixing it
<kiko> Kinnison, hmmm, I'm not a good pick today, but I'll do it if nobody else can
<Kinnison> kiko: okay, I'll try someone else first
<Kinnison> kiko: https://chinstrap.ubuntu.com/~dsilvers/paste/fileFX53yA.html is the larger one
<salgado> stub, ping
<stub> salgado: pong
<void_main_void> opa...
<salgado> stub, I just saw that steve cherrypicked one of /his/ branches into production. and I want to know what's our policy here; should I always branch from production and ask you to cherrypick my branch or this is only a fallback when it's impossible to cherrypick the fix from rocketfuel's --devel?
<stub> salgado: Normally stuff can be cherry picked directly from launchpad--devel--0. We only need to bother with branches of the production branch if the changes cannot be applied due to conflicts or similar.
<salgado> stub, this is what I thought. anyway, this merge that dilys will announce soon (hopefully) should be cherrypickable. should I ping you or are you going to sleep soon?
<stub> Try pinging me
<SteveA> salgado: ping
<salgado> SteveA, nm. already sorted with stub
<SteveA> ok
<kiko> stub?
<carlos> stub, spiv around?
<stub> eh?
<spiv> carlos: Hmm?
<carlos> spiv, stub are we mirroring librarian into staging?
<stub> staging librarian should be configured to pull stuff from the production librarian that it doesn't have locally
<carlos> stub, cool, thanks
<carlos> stub, and do I have access to staging librarian from mawson?
<carlos> stub, could I get it?
<stub> staging is world accessible
<stub> librarian.staging.ubuntu.com
<carlos> ok, thanks
<salgado> stub, here it comes
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: [trivial]  Highlight high priority orders and display the order id in the list of orders. (patch-2465: guilherme.salgado@canonical.com)
<stub> SteveA: I've got the statement timeout code running on staging (there was a zcml slug that was overriding the launchpad da with the standard psycopgda)
<kiko> rock stub 
<SteveA> stub: cool
<SteveA> i'm hooking up the "shutdown the socket" code
<stub> And on production now. So db statements taking longer than 4 seconds will die and the page will show a system error. Which will make the rest of the system stable.
<SteveA> salgado: suggest you write a braindump spec on different authentication redirects
<SteveA> stub: have you seen it happen on production? ;-)
<stub> Yes
<SteveA> what do you think is a good value for the max pending tasks?
<stub> https://launchpad.net/errors/showEntry.html?id=1127400721.970.643347247388
<stub> I'd got for 20 (5 per thread)
<SteveA> ok
* stub pulls a number out of his arse
<salgado> stub, have you seen my pseudo-request for a cherrypick review?
<kiko> SteveA, I think we need this ASAP for shipit, TBH
<salgado> s/review//
<stub> eh?
<SteveA> kiko: should be much improved already.
<salgado> stub, ok, you haven't. patch-2465 is the one I need cherrypicked. can you do that? :)
<stub> yup
<SteveA> we need to get pound sorted properly before my current work will have any effect anyway
<kiko> SteveA, I mean the redurect
<kiko> SteveA, the redirect :)
<SteveA> why can't salgado just do a shipit-specific registration template?
<salgado> SteveA, IIRC I decided for not doing so because the view we use for the +login page is not easily extandable, and I need to extend it
<salgado> so, that would mean a considerable amount of work
<SteveA> how do you mean "not easily extendable" ?
<SteveA> write me something explaining exactly what you need, and i'll help you do it
<SteveA> (not on irc though)
<salgado> not extendable at all. I'd need to do a lot of work on it
<SteveA> (so i can do it asyncronously)
<SteveA> write me your requirements
<SteveA> and i'll sort it ou
<SteveA> t
<salgado> okay, that sounds good
<carlos> stub, before you leave, could you tell me when is supposed to finish the whitespace fix script?
<Kinnison> SteveA: fancy casting your eye over https://chinstrap.ubuntu.com/~dsilvers/paste/fileFX53yA.html ?
<stub> carlos: 38.3778 done (1750000 of 4559926). eta 20:33:20.007313
<carlos> stub, so tomorrow noon it should be done.
<carlos> stub, I will need a staging db refresh after it finish
<carlos> stub, is it possible?
<stub> carlos: Sure.
<carlos> stub, cool thansk
<stub> salgado: I just fast tracked that cherry pick - its running in production now
<kiko> rock!
<carlos> jblack, kiko Jordi just called me
<kiko> and?
<carlos> he said that his network is down because they are moving to another office and he didn't know it would happen
<carlos> kiko, jblack he will mail us tonight to set another meeting next week
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: [trivial]  Make staging and production use Launchpad variant of psycopgda (patch-2466: stuart.bishop@canonical.com)
<SteveA> stub: how should i do logging in launchpad code?
<stub> In the webapp? Dunno. Hopefully Z3 is setup so you just grab a Python logger and log to it and the launchpad.conf configuration sorts out where it goes.
<Kinnison> can pqm be asked to merge two branches into RF at the same time?
<SteveA> no
<SteveA> you need to ask lifeless to arrange such a thing
<Kinnison> right
<SteveA> stub: argh
<SteveA> stub: ZServer is kinda wank.  Many of the adjustments just don't work.
<SteveA> they've never been used by anyone.
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--production--1.33: Cherry pick production config fix (patch-8: stuart.bishop@canonical.com)
<stub> SteveA: Maybe we should leave it until twisted support lands in the Z3 trunk. With the timeout stuff we should be fine.
<SteveA> nah, i've done it now
<SteveA> would like to try it on staging, or somewere
<SteveA> works for me, with random manual banging on it
<SteveA> logs a message to the app log when it shuts down or reopens the socket
<SteveA> there's a request in RT for looking at the pound config and getting the logs
<stub> heh.... rate of new users has gone up significantly since shipit rolled out. So far 60,000 Breezy CDs ordered in 7000 requests.
<\sh> shipit is open to order breezy cds?
<\sh> hmm...i should order some of them ;) to spread ubuntu again in our company
* SteveA mails stub a diff
* Kinnison screams at baz
* Kinnison kicks it hard
* Kinnison tries again
<bradb> heh
<Kinnison> aah, it's my own fault :-)
* Kinnison mirrors RF before trying to merge from it
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--production--1.33: Cherry pick patch-2465 into production 1.33 (patch-9: guilherme.salgado@canonical.com, rocketfuel@canonical.com)
<Kinnison> ddaa: I've sent you some conflict amusement stuff
* bradb & # lunch
<ddaa> okay, I'll try to look at it tomorrow
<zyga> this is probably a FAQ but what is this and why it doesn't work: https://launchpad.net/people/zkrynicki/+edithackergotchi
* SteveA decides to remove the "edit hackergotchi" menu item until mark gets back to explain it
<kiko> DO IT
<zyga> SteveA: what is hackergotchi anyway??
<zyga> it sounds like tamagotchi
<zyga> 'breed your own hacker'
<SteveA> see planet.ubuntu.com
<zyga> 'your hacker is houngr, throw some code at it'
<SteveA> those floating heads are "hackergotchi"
<zyga> ah :)
<zyga> cool
<zyga> hmm
<zyga> where can I send bugreports about planget ubuntu?
<SteveA> i don't know
<zyga> the links are totally b0rked and pretty much indistingushable from regular text ;P
<SteveA> hello latvians
<Kinnison> ciao dudes
* Kinnison heads off
<SteveA> Virtuall: do you ever go to vilnius?
<Virtuall> SteveA, no, should I?
<Virtuall> ;)
<SteveA> depends
<Virtuall> hello to you too
<Virtuall> do yo go to Riga?
<SteveA> haven't been yet
<SteveA> it's on my todo list
<Virtuall> :)
* Virtuall 's been to Klaipeda & Palanga
<SteveA> if you're interested in launchpad, and are in vilnius sometime, there are two launchpad developers here.
<SteveA> it would be good to get real-life feedback on your using launchpad
<Virtuall> is your lithuanian beer good
<Virtuall> ?
<Virtuall> :))
<SteveA> if it wasn't there would be some kind of national revolution
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: SP refcounting and publish-distro trivial fix. r=stevea (patch-2467: daniel.silverstone@canonical.com)
<salgado> carlos, have you seen https://launchpad.net/errors/showEntry.html?id=1127412456.020.90591756315 ?
<bradb> BjornT: is it expected that, in a doctest, if i call:
<bradb> login('foo')
<bradb> the launchbag.user will be foo
<bradb> and if, right after, i call:
<bradb> login('bar')
<bradb> the launchbag.user will be bar?
<BjornT> bradb: if 'foo' and 'bar' are valid email addresses, then yes
* bradb escapes from some kind of weird focus bug
<BjornT> (of course that is, launchbag.user will be the user with given login)
<bradb> BjornT: It appears to not work in that way. As an example, line 404, bugtask.txt:
<bradb> if I do:
<bradb>     >>> login('spiv@jabber.org')
<bradb>     >>> getUtility(ILaunchBag).user.id
<bradb>     >>> upstream_task.status = STATUS_ACCEPTED
<bradb> my test raises an error, saying NoneType has no attribute 'id'
<bradb> (this code will look different that what you'd have, because I just added that code locally.)
<bradb> this makes me think that it's possible that login() is broken, and bugtask.txt was accidentally passing anyway
<bradb> ACH
<bradb> it's also possible that i'm a retard
* bradb notices the "email" that I parsed out of the page was spiv's jabber account, not necessarily (and, in fact, unlikely) a valid email address
* bradb looks in the db
<BjornT> yeah, i was going to say that it doesn't handle errors well.
<bradb> but, i tried this in other parts of the file as well, and saw a similar error. it's not yet clear if this is a bug or not. i'll let you know more in a few mins.
<BjornT> bradb: feel free to put 'assert principal is not None, "Invalid login"' after 'principal = authutil.getPrincipalByLogin(email)' in the login function
<bradb> right, that's a pretty serious bug, IMHO
<bradb> i'll fix it here
<BjornT> cool
<salgado> what's up with all these "ProgrammingError: ERROR: canceling query due to user request ..." on production?
<bradb> salgado: sounds like it might be stub's query timeout thing maybe?
<salgado> oh, right. that's beeing triggered all the time
<salgado> even on some inserts
<salgado> this is bad, I guess
<SteveA> we can have a different timeout for POSTs if we need that
<SteveA> i think it is acceptable for POSTs to take longer than GETs
<kiko> 3 seconds sounds a bit too little, though
<SteveA> 3 seconds of processing seems okay for most GETs
<SteveA> note that it will take longer to be actually returned to the user
<SteveA> also...
<SteveA> we can change the code to have a "warn" level and a "kill" level
<kiko> we have queries that currently take 3 minutes
<SteveA> so, requests between 3 and 6 seconds get a warning
<SteveA> and requests 6 seconds and over get killed
<SteveA> we don't have queries that take 3 minutes
<SteveA> they get killed
<kiko> we used to up to this morning!
<kiko> SteveA, we're getting deadlocks running the test suite
<bradb> kiko: Are you interested in doing a drive-by review of the admin-awareness patch once I'm done make linting/bazzing?
<kiko> bradb, probably not today :-(
<kiko> SteveA, any clue as to where to start debugging?
<SteveA> find what tests are causing the problem
<bradb> ok. i can trivial it, i think. it's really simple. 2 lines of security checker changes and then some test adjustments.
<SteveA> maybe ones that run external processes?
<kiko> SteveA, it's funny. one process is waiting to write on a pipe, and the other end of the pipe is waitpid()ing 
<kiko> on the first process
<SteveA> o, right
<SteveA> thought you meant database deadlocks
<kiko> who does our test suite run baz?
<bradb> somebody once emailed the list about how to debug a hanging test suite. i wonder if they ever put that doc on the wiki, or if it just got swallowed up in the archive.
<kiko> this is fresh rocketfuel though
<kiko> it's something in the local setup
<SteveA> kiko: probably crappy reading on the out vs error streams vs input -- often code that invokes processes will makes assumptions about that.
<SteveA> the new subprocess should handle it better 
<SteveA> so, suspect code that uses the old APIs
<salgado> I think I found the problem
<SteveA> running the suite with -vv etc. will help show the hanging tests
<kiko> salgado?
<salgado> no, false alarm
<salgado> I was running with -vv and saw an error message
<kiko> it's running test_on_merge
<SteveA> kiko: try running a subset of tests, rather than test_on_merge
<kiko> SteveA, yeah, I'll start looking into this :-(
<salgado> I'm running with -vv and everything is passing up to now
<kiko> rock
<koke> carlos: if I deactivate a user from a team, and fill the comment field, does he receive the comment?
<koke> there's one who has just desubscribed from the list
<koke> unsubscribed :)
<carlos> koke, no idea
<carlos> salgado, ?
<salgado> koke, no, he'll not receive anything
<koke> hmm, but will the comment be visible or it will be just removed from the list of team members?
<salgado> but maybe it'd be a good idea to have it
<salgado> he'll be removed and the comment will be stored. right now we're not displaying this comment anywhere (apart from the deactivation page)
<carlos> salgado, so only admins will see it?
<salgado> carlos, yes
<carlos> ok
<kiko> salgado, and the tests?
<salgado> still running
<salgado> I ran them on another tree, using anthem's postgres and it already finished
<salgado> but using the local postgres is taking ages
<kiko> mmmkay
* Virtuall njj;t nbgf gbotn rhbdj
<salgado> SteveA, I braindumped a little in https://wiki.launchpad.canonical.com/ShipItLogin. please let me know if something is not clear or if there's anything missing
<SteveA> salgado: i've almost gone home -- can you mail me, and i'll look tomorrow morning
<salgado> SteveA, sure
<kiko> SteveA, bug queries are broken in production
<kiko> this is horrible
<kiko> they are getting killed prematurely
<bradb> argh
* kiko tries staging
<kiko> works on staging
<kiko> oh here's a fun one
<kiko> bradb, you can no longer query for a bug # on staging
<kiko> it doesn't redirect you anymore
<kiko> bradb, also, I can't seem to find bug 2331 by searching..
<bradb> BjornT: are you available for a quick code review? it's a patch to make Malone admin aware, and fix an upstream task related privacy bug (that I don't believe is currently exploitable.)
* bradb looks
<bradb> kiko: redirection seems to work fine here.
<kiko> oh
<kiko> bug 2331 doesn't exist in staging
<bradb> in the case of 2331, it appears to simple not exist. in that case, it doesn't redirect you anywhere. instead, it shows you a 404, like it would now.
<kiko> sorry.
<bradb> no worries
<kiko> it doesn't show you a 404 though
<kiko> it redisplays the list apparently
<bradb> i'm seeing 404's
<kiko> on staging?
<bradb> yeah
<kiko> wait, I'll give you a URL
<bradb> 2331 takes me to https://staging.ubuntu.com/malone/bugs/2331
<kiko> https://staging.ubuntu.com/products/launchpad/+bugs
<kiko> type in 2331
<kiko> do search
<kiko> see what I mean?
<salgado> kiko, tests completed when running with test.py -vv
<kiko> you must be talking about the malone homepage
<kiko> salgado, race conditions are fun
<kiko> I'm looking into the configurable database names.
<bradb> ah, i guess you're talking about a search from the bug listing
* bradb lags lags lags
<bradb> yes, that would be a bug; it should jump you to the correct place
* bradb needs a code reviewer
<kiko> yeah, regressed on staging
<kiko> bradb, where's the diff
<bradb> being bazzed right now
<kiko> then stop bazzing
<kiko> or rather
<kiko> stop bugging me :)
<bradb> kiko: no point doing the diff if nobody's going to volunteer to review it.
<kiko> why am the only one that cares about other people's problems?
<bradb> kiko: btw, the bug listing/bug # search though, though a bug, is not a regression
<bradb> s/though/thing/
<kiko> there aren't tests for it, which is pretty bad, but still, it works in production, but not on staging
<kiko> actually
<bradb> kiko: it behaves precisely the same on both :)
<kiko> yeah, whatever
<kiko> it's corner-case behaviour
<kiko> you could argue it's correct
<kiko> lifeless, autocacherev isn't working on chinstrap, and that kills us
<bradb> kiko: i can send you the malone admin awareness patch now, if you're ready for it
<kiko> yeah
<kiko> sure
<kiko> I have to fix the most horrible bug ever today
<kiko> gah
<bradb> sent
<bradb> kiko: the insanely-short timeout, you mean?
<kiko> no, hardcoded database names
<kiko> running local databases on diskless is slower than molasses
* bradb is about to depend on the behaviour of mesh-merge
<bradb> Seeing what state the error message derobotization branch is in now that the URL changes (off which I branched for it) have landed
<mpt> Good mooooooooooooooooooooooooooorn- ... afternoon, Launchpadders
<GoRoDeK> hi mpt :)
<sivang> good aftermorning mpt!
<sivang> :)
<mpt> What's new and improved?
<kiko> nothing
<mpt> really?
<mpt> Has PQM gone on strike?
* bradb applies 45 revisions
<bradb> kiko: how's the admin patch looking?
<kiko> nice
<kiko> almost there
* bradb now applies 58 revisions in reverse
<mpt> brrrrm!
<bradb> good thing i happened to have 1.2G of diskspace to throw away to get me to this point in the merge
<shawarma> Is searching b0rken or is it just me?
<shawarma> er.. in Malone, that is.
<shawarma> \sh: And you actually get a result from that URL and not just a "Sorry, a system error occurred"?
<\sh> yep
<\sh> https://launchpad.net/malone/distros/ubuntu?field.searchtext=vpnc&search=Search&advanced=&status=10&status=20&assignee=all
<\sh> shawarma: ah..no..it's the error message
<shawarma> \sh: heheh..
<\sh> just confused..switching between 3 projects ;)
<shawarma> It appears that searching only works when you're not logged in.
<shawarma> Weirdness.
<salgado> shawarma, \sh, launchpad is having some problems with long-running queries. this is not a problem in the search itself, it happens because we're imposing some heavily low limits on how long a database query can run
<\sh> salgado: k...so it's ok for now...and will be changed somehow in the future
<\sh> oh missing a ?
<salgado> yes, it'll definitely be fixed as soon as we identify what was causing the breakage we had without these limits
* bradb is unable to fork for diff :/
* bradb retries
<asmodai> kiko: oi, around?
<kiko> fala asmodai 
<asmodai> kiko: you interested in more jobs?
<kiko> always :)
<asmodai> Heh, I must've scared him.
<\sh> salgado: rock :) and we could need a good search for fixed/rejected reports as well, sorted by teams or LP members....;)
<bradb> ********************************************************
<bradb> *  27 conflicted items in this tree. Please            *
<bradb> * resolve each conflict with "baz resolved 'filename'" *
<bradb> ********************************************************
<bradb> i give up for today
<mpt> bradb: How does one customize the order of fields in an addform or editform?
<bradb> mpt: they appear in the order named in ZCML, IIRC
<bradb> i.e. in the "fields" attribute of that form's declaration
<mpt> ah, brilliant, thanks
<bradb> np
<asmodai> is hackergothi supposed to work if you logged in?
<kiko> I have no clue, asmodai -- we're disabling it till the author reappears from vacation :-(
<asmodai> oh ok
<asmodai> lol
<asmodai> I clicked and I was surprised about no access, that's all
<asmodai> mmm
<asmodai> on my user page
<asmodai> I click Add Specification
<asmodai> and get a 404
<kiko> asmodai, could you file a bug please?
<asmodai> will do
<asmodai> just verifying ;)
<asmodai> btw, site design improved a lot, I like it
<asmodai> ok
<asmodai> so I have the home page open
<asmodai> spot malone for tracking bugs
<asmodai> cool
<asmodai> come to the malone page
<asmodai> see file a bug on a package and read that's only for rpms, debs and so
<asmodai> but why does the upstream not have such a convenient quick link?
<asmodai> instead you have:
<asmodai> Locate Product and View Bugs - locate a product to view, search or file bugs
<bradb> kiko: reply sent!
<asmodai> which allows to file, but is a bit counter intuitive?
<asmodai> ah well, file that as well
<asmodai> 17
<kiko> asmodai, we're getting there -- bradb just landed one big requisite
<asmodai> Well, it's a huge improvement yea
<asmodai> :D
<asmodai> from a few months ago
<asmodai> kudos
<bradb> When I get to start working on searching again, the power will shift to the users.
<asmodai> heh
<bradb> That will happen in November, around time of UBZ
<asmodai> UBZ?
<bradb> UbuntuBelowZero, developer summit in Montreal
<asmodai> ah
<bradb> ********************************************************
<bradb> *  27 conflicted items in this tree. Please            *
<bradb> * resolve each conflict with "baz resolved 'filename'" *
<bradb> ********************************************************
<bradb> oops
<asmodai> mmm, yea, canuck country starts to get colder soon
<bradb> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBelowZero
* asmodai will be in Japan end of Oct/begin Nov
* bradb was in Japan in april
<asmodai> where?
<bradb> Tokyo
<asmodai> Ah nice
<asmodai> I will go to Narita, spend 1-3 days there with the gf
<asmodai> and then we move to Tochigi prefecture to her parents place
<bradb> sweet
<bradb> i love tokyo. i could totally live there.
<asmodai> yea :)
<asmodai> Even with the humidity?
<asmodai> err
<asmodai>  Sorry, a system error occurred
<asmodai> crap
<asmodai> after editing some translations
<bradb> *humidity*? i'd be too distracted by the earthquakes to worry about how much water's in the air.
<asmodai> errr
<asmodai> how about a taifuu?
<asmodai> nope, getting consistent system errors for editing this translation =\
* carlos -> bed
<carlos> see you tomorrow
<kiko> asmodai, likely because we're killing long-running queries. sucks, but performance is killing us there
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: [trivial]  Fixing bug 2004:  IRosettaApplication has a lot of duplicated methods and methods with a 'self' argument. Clean up interface. (patch-2468: christian.reis@canonical.com)
#launchpad 2005-09-28
<mpt> goodnight people
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: [r=kiko]  make malone admin aware, fix a privacy-related bug for upstream task editing and a nasty bug in login() that was not raising an error when an invalid email was passed (patch-2469: brad.bollenbach@canonical.com)
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: [trivial]  Minor variable name fixing for buildd infrastructure after test in DF, foodix/breezyfood is running. (patch-2470: celso.providelo@canonical.com)
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: Bring failed binary imports down from 472 to 6 by finding sources more aggressively. r=spiv (patch-2471: daniel.silverstone@canonical.com)
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: Facilitate navigation when changing orders. Fix https://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/2449. r=kiko (patch-2472: guilherme.salgado@canonical.com)
<sivang> Morning all!
<Treenaks> hey sivan
<sivang> hey Treenaks  ;)
<carlos> morning
<carlos> stub, hi, around?
<stub> yes
<carlos> stub, I was not able to reach staging's librarian from mawson
<carlos> I'm not sure If I'm doing anything wrong
<carlos> stub, I took the configuration from the staging configuration and put it inside the default one
<carlos> but I still get "connection refused" errors
<stub> carlos: the staging environment is rebuilding at the moment, including a fresh db sync from production
<stub> carlos: Because the whitespace migration script completed
<carlos> cool
<carlos> stub, well, I had that problem yesterday
<stub> Should be about another 1 hour 15 mins or so
<stub> carlos: I'll test from mawson once it is back up
<carlos> stub, ok, if you could tell me the config I should use, please...
<stub> download_url http://librarian.staging.launchpad.net/
<stub> download_host librarian.staging.launchpad.net
<stub> download_port 80
<stub> upload_host asuka.ubuntu.com
<stub> upload_port 58090
<stub> That should be enough
<carlos> ok, that's the problem, wrong port...
<stub> carlos: staging update had a problem - it will be dead for another 2.5 hours
<carlos> stub, ok
<carlos> thanks for the info
<stub> carlos: I think you missed a 'where' clause in that SQL you sent me
<carlos> right, sorry
<carlos> I copied& pasted the wrong line
<carlos> :-(
<carlos> WHERE code = 'fy'
<stub> carlos: done
<carlos> thank you
<ddaa> lifeless: if the needs ever become serious, I think I have come up with a good idea to considerably speed up cscvs svn support while keeping decent layering.
<lifeless> ddaa: cool
<ddaa> The basic idea is to have a cache that is loaded at the start of the import for each revision. The cache manages a full svn checkout, and sequencially updates the tree. The update can be optimised by finding the the longest common prefix of modified relpath() in the log. Then all propget, cat, listing, etc. operations can be done on the local checkout instead of asking the repository.
<Kinnison> Morning
<nkour> carlos, hello
<lifeless> ddaa: k
<nkour> carlos, I'm upstream can I update a po in rosetta? Can I remove a branch in rosetta? (after moving the po back to 'the package' branch)?
<carlos> nkour, gajim?
<nkour> carlos, yes I hate to be bugging but the problems are still there
<carlos> nkour, you need to talk with Jordi
<nkour> carlos, about what?
<nkour> dammit I do not understand how I do not have full control to even delete it from rosetta and readd it
<carlos> nkour, we are being confused with gajim. First the 0.8 branch was requested to be removed, now we should use it....
<carlos> nkour, so it's better if you talk directly with jordi, who started to handle your request
<carlos> so we don't confuse the request
<nkour> carlos, okay. the problem was that I was not aware svn was added, nor the guy that asked understands the innerings
<nkour> jordi, hello
<carlos> nkour, could you send an email explanining all the issues to rosetta@ubuntu.com?
<nkour> carlos, but tell me this. why can't I do whatever I want without bugging you?
<carlos> jordi will get it and me too 
<nkour> okay
<carlos> nkour, it depends on what do you want to do
<nkour> EVERYTHING :)
<nkour> that is related to my project
<carlos> nkour, please, describe current situation and how do you want it
<nkour> remove po, add po, add/delete branch etc etc
<nkour> I want to have 0.8 and JUST THAT, and upload whichever po I get outside of rosetta so I do not see people dup effort
<nkour> eg. I have italian po 100% now, outside of rosetta. I cannot do anything to avoid dup of effort
<carlos> nkour, you should be able to upload any .po file as the owner of the product/potemplate after the initial upload done by jordi
<carlos> nkour, if you are not able, it's a bug
<nkour> carlos, I do not see how to do that in https://launchpad.net/products/gajim/+translations
<carlos> please, send the email so we don't miss anything and we will tell you what is doable, what is not doable and if it's planned in the future
<carlos> nkour, https://launchpad.net/products/gajim/it/+upload
<nkour> carlos, hidden link? 404
<carlos> nkour, sorry https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/breezy/+sources/gajim/+pots/gajim/it/+upload/+login
<carlos> nkour, sorry https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/breezy/+sources/gajim/+pots/gajim/it/+upload
<carlos> nkour, it's not a hidden link
<carlos> you select the language and choose to upload a po file
<carlos> it's the procedure
<carlos> other option is to upload a tarball with the .pot file + .po files from: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/breezy/+sources/gajim/+pots/gajim/+upload
<nkour> carlos, ok I keep those links but via UI I do not see how to do it sorry
<nkour> I mean how to go to those links. how to select langauage
<nkour> all I get is that my preferred lang is Greek and that is all
<carlos> nkour, because as upstream, you are supposed to use the one I told you for the tarball with the .pot and .po files
<carlos> nkour, the other is for translators
<carlos> so you only see the language you translate into
<carlos> anyway
<nkour> carlos, ok
<nkour> carlos, should I still write a mail just to say that I want HEAD to be removed or you can just rm it ?
<carlos> you can reach it from https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/breezy/+sources/gajim/+pots/gajim
<carlos> nkour, send the email, please
<nkour> carlos, https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/breezy/+sources/gajim/+pots/gajim/+upload says:  Sorry, you don't have permission to access this page.
<nkour> You are logged in as Nikos Kouremenos
<nkour> don't you love that?
<carlos> lifeless, 11951 carlos    15   0 2125m 994m  968 D  0.3 65.8  17:43.15 baz
<carlos> nkour, that's a bug
<carlos> no, wait
<carlos> it's not a bug
<carlos> wrong owner...
<carlos> just a second...
<ddaa> it's a bug jim, but not as we know it
<nkour> ok fix me!!
<carlos> fuck
<nkour> at least the hidden way works
<carlos> nkour, I gave you the wrong link
<nkour> one by one the po
<carlos> wait
<carlos> let's start again...
<nkour> no wait
<nkour> I do not like 0.8 being controls by Rosetta Admins
<carlos> https://launchpad.net/products/gajim/+series/main/+pots/gajim/+upload
<carlos> nkour, the other is Ubuntu specific so it's normal you are not allowed to do anything there
<nkour> carlos, ok I wanna discuss that a bit
<carlos> phone
<carlos> just a second, please...
<nkour> k
<carlos> I'm back
<nkour> wow I found another bug?
<nkour> I uploaded italian to the hidden link (0.8 it/) but I get italian fully untraslated but it is not hte case
<nkour> but first things first:
<carlos> nkour, dude, the upload messages tells you that it takes some time to have the import done....
<nkour> ok it was listed though :^
<nkour> I'm upstream and you say that the correct way is to upload a tarball
<nkour> but I cannot
<carlos> why?
<nkour> so I have to have access to secret links to upload each po
<nkour> because in 0.8 I do not have access
<nkour> now, I do not undersatnd this philosophy:
<nkour> users use 0.8, not svn. we have new strings (but not frozen strings) in svn, so user if submits a new transl (outside of rosetta) it sends us directly to us
<nkour> now, without the hidden link, it's impossible for me to avoid: another italian starting from 0% in 0.8
<nkour> but that po is for 0.8 100%
<carlos> nkour, why do you say that you cannot upload a tarball?
<nkour> and I cannot say to tranls: "hey do svn, but you will have your strings removed (not frozen)" so all NEW translations are for 0.8 but rosetta is bossy
<nkour> carlos, because owen ir Rosetta Admins and not me
<nkour> so it's insane
<nkour> except if you guys want to be bugged everyday
<carlos> nkour, ok, one thing is Ubuntu, another thing is upstream
<nkour> I do not care about that
<nkour> listen:
<nkour> if I get Chinese outside of Rosetta, I will get it for 0.8
<nkour> for 0.8 strings
<nkour> so I consider it done. but rosetta does not know, so Liu Xian guy will start Chinese from scratch and will waste time
<carlos> not really
<nkour> he could have used to chinese another app
<nkour> how is that/
<nkour> ?
<carlos> if you upload that translations into upstream's link https://launchpad.net/products/gajim/+series/main/+pots/gajim
<carlos> nkour, he will see those translations as suggestions
<carlos> in the near future, we will implement a way to apply automatically those translations from upstream directly into Ubuntu's ones
<carlos> but atm, the translations will appear
<carlos> need to be manually selected, but will see them
<nkour> lost you
<nkour> if I update to devel (where I'm owner) what happens?
<nkour> do they also get magically to 0.8?
<carlos> not directly (yet)
<nkour> a so you like bugging :)
<carlos> but will appear in any other branch we have
<carlos> as suggestions
<nkour> ok wait
<nkour> I do not like bugging you again so let's solve this
<nkour> via the hidden link: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/breezy/+sources/gajim/+pots/gajim/it/+upload I can upload po to 0.8 right?
<carlos> no, because you are not member of the Ubuntu's Italian translation Team
<nkour> u said so, I did but 10 mins have passed and italina is still 0% https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/breezy/+sources/gajim/+pots/gajim
<carlos> you can only do that into: https://launchpad.net/products/gajim/+series/main/+pots/gajim/it/+upload
<nkour> carlos, well it did not fail !
<carlos> nkour, are you sure it was inside distros URL or products URL?
<nkour> distros
<nkour> moreover
<carlos> hmmm 
<nkour> so it got added 0%
<nkour> yab :)
<nkour> if I make translation open to anyone, can I update the PO in 0.8?
<nkour> if not, there you go. I have to bug you everyday
<carlos> nkour, ok, you found a bug....
<nkour> yes that is yab
<carlos> you should not be able to do the upload...
<nkour> I do not mind finding bugs, but I also want to do the job
<nkour> I want to upload po to 0.8 po
<nkour> pos*
<carlos> nkour, you can have CLOSED translations for 0.8
<nkour> ok I open them and I can
<carlos> and still have rights to do the uploads
<carlos> as maintainer
<nkour> well it did not work
<nkour> it's 0%
<nkour> please tell me what to do to have italian in 0.8 and then remove devel
<carlos> nkour, dude... again, the upload is not done so fast
<carlos> it's added to a queue of imports
<carlos> and is handled later
<nkour> carlos, ok the upload wants 20 minutes?
<nkour> ok
<carlos> nkour, we are uploading all OpenOffice translations so the queu is a bit busy
<carlos> usually it does not take more than 5 minutes
<nkour> that queue I hope says about moving basque back to 0.8
<carlos> with the current queue it will take some extra time
<nkour> ok
<nkour> is that import queue somewhere upblic?
<nkour> carlos, I wanna make sure it is the ast time I bug you
<carlos> did you release any gajim version from the 0.8 branch?
<nkour> yea
<carlos> nkour, no, we still need to implement the web view of that queue
<carlos> nkour, could you tell me the exact version and codename?
<carlos> please
<nkour> carlos, 0.8, 0.8.1, 0.8.2 (last is in ubu)
<nkour> carlos, I have to go soon
<SteveA> hi
<nkour> carlos, the problem to be solved:
<carlos> nkour, I'm near there
<carlos> nkour, the series is now 0.8
<nkour> remove devel
<carlos> so devel has been removed already
<carlos> look into it
<nkour> was the basque po moved to 0.8 from devel?
<carlos> Nafallo, https://launchpad.net/products/gajim/+series/0.8/+translations
<carlos> s/Nafallo/nkour/
<carlos> nkour, there are only one set of translations
<carlos> nkour, the ones in devel are now the 0.8 translations
<nkour> thanks
<nkour> I hope Italian gets filled
<carlos> nkour, you need to upload it yourself
<nkour> reupload?
<nkour> ok
<carlos> either uploading a tarball with hte .pot and .po files at https://launchpad.net/products/gajim/+series/0.8/+pots/gajim/+upload or using the URL it/+upload
<nkour> ok
<carlos> but use the /products/ url instead of the distros one
<carlos> nkour, anything else?
<nkour> carlos, the problem: LP points to distros url
<carlos> that's something you will need to talk with sabdfl (mark), by default we point to the latest Ubuntu release
<carlos> nkour, are you going to use Rosetta as upstream way to translate gajim?
<nkour> carlos, I cannot force everyone to use Rosetta
<nkour> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/breezy/+sources/gajim/+pots/gajim/+edit fix so HEAD --> the latest from the box below left in this page
<nkour> I cannot do that so I bug you
<carlos> nkour, I mean... are you going to get/upload translations for all languages?
<carlos> nkour, that's a /distros URL so it's normal you don't have rights there
<nkour> carlos, yes i know so just please update that
<nkour> carlos, I just upload to /releases/ the italian po
<nkour> which was outside rosetta
<nkour> as rosetta hugs POT without aksing (via ubu package) I'm forced (because I'm a good guy) to update pos there so I do not get dup of effort
<nkour> damn
* SteveA wonders if stub is still around
<Kinnison> anyone know what this is, and how to fix it? : https://dogfood.ubuntu.com/distros/foodix/breezyfood/i386/readahead
<Treenaks> I can't translate in rosetta anything atm, is t his known?
<SteveA> Kinnison: i can help
<SteveA> Kinnison: so, you have an expression in a template that goes  file/url/fileurl, line 19, col22 of binarypackage-portlet-details.pt
<zorglub> how often does the bazaar repository sync with upstream ?
<SteveA> and it is saying that 'file', a BinaryPackageFile object, cannot be traversed to the name "url"
<SteveA> that would ususally mean that there is no 'url' attribute or method, or that the attribute or method is a forbidden attribute.
<SteveA> Treenaks: what's up?
<Kinnison> SteveA: right, ta
<Treenaks> SteveA: When I click "save & continue" in rosetta, I get a System Error page
<Treenaks> SteveA: after a few seconds of waiting
<SteveA> okay.  what is the exact URL you see before you click "save and continue" ?
<Treenaks> SteveA: works on almost all rosetta URLs with translatable strings for me
<SteveA> please give me a specific url
<Treenaks> SteveA: I can't even get there now: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/breezy/+sources/ubuntu-docs/+pots/faqguide/nl/+translate
<Treenaks> (second time it works)
<SteveA> what's your usename on launchpad?
<Treenaks> SteveA: martijn@foodfight.org (/people/martijn)
<Treenaks> Save & Continue on https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/breezy/+sources/ubuntu-docs/+pots/faqguide/nl/+translate gives an error
<SteveA> okay
<SteveA> i can see what is happening
<SteveA> the problem is that the query is taking too long for the back-end database to process, so it is being aborted
<Treenaks> reasonable
<SteveA> it's an issue that some rosetta pages with certain translations are taking too long to be processed
<SteveA> and this can have a bad effect on the whole application
<Treenaks> I can't translate anything atm
<SteveA> i'll look into it and get back to you in 10 mins, okay?
<Treenaks> ok
<zorglub> ok, I registered VLC on launchpad and I have a few questions
<SteveA> vlc rocks
<zorglub> - I registered a product, and then, saw the concept of projects. I don't understand how I can attach the product to the project now
<zorglub> :)
<zorglub> - I added the SVN repository, and bazaar sync now says "testing", it has been like that for some time, is it normal / how long does it normally take ?
<SteveA> ddaa / jblack: a question for you here
<zorglub> - vlc has a translation in rosetta, from breezy, but it's not up-to-date. To add the upstream .po, I need to wait for bazaar mirror and then ask the rosetta list, right ?
<zorglub> and that's all :)
<SteveA> you can get jordi to help you upload the .po right away, i think
<ddaa> SteveA: ACK
<zorglub> SteveA: will it automatically sync with upstream .po when they are modified in SVN ?
<ddaa> zorglub: what the name of the thing?
<zorglub> product is vlc, project is videolan
<ddaa> going to production requires auditing and some manual operation
<ddaa> mh
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: [trivial]  Make poimport and poattach connect as correct database users (patch-2473: stuart.bishop@canonical.com)
<ddaa> zorglub: the product does not appear to belong to any project, do you want me to fix that?
<zorglub> yes, please
<ddaa> zorglub: done
<zorglub> thx
<ddaa> also, reviewed the project description
<ddaa> zorglub: I'm going to enter the release tarball details
<ddaa> (it's not _yet_ used, but will eventually provide much packaging goodness through HCT)
<zorglub> for 0.8.2 ?
<ddaa> mh...
<ddaa> nevermind...
<ddaa> I'm still finding that bit somewhat confusing, so just ignore what I said. You do not need it yet.
<zorglub> ok
<zorglub> I actually didn't really understand why releases are attached to a developent branch
<ddaa> Releases are attached to series.
<zorglub> hum, no, that's actually logical
<ddaa> Which are actually much more than branches.
<ddaa> I have a patch in the works here that actually exposes branches, and they may not be attached to any series.
<ddaa> also, a series may have no branch...
<ddaa> The UI is currently very confused about that though.
<ddaa> The fact that you can actually associate releases to series in a somewhat, but not quite, freeform manner does not help IMO.
<ddaa> zorglub: the test import is running, i'll keep you posted
<zorglub> ok thansk
<SteveA> Treenaks: can you try translating again now please?  see if the page works.
<ddaa> Mh, I reproduced a hang situation in the cscvs test suite here
<ddaa> darn CVS... apparently, sometimes it won't quit after a SIGTERM... will add a SIGKILL after 10 seconds
<Treenaks> SteveA: ok
<Treenaks> SteveA: "Sorry, a system error occurred"
<Treenaks> SteveA: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/breezy/+sources/ubuntu-docs/+pots/faqguide/nl/+translate
<stub> carlos: staging is all updated now
<carlos> stub, cool, thanks
* SteveA pings stub 
<stub> yo
<SteveA> do you see the priv message?
<SteveA> Treenaks: can you try once more please?
<Treenaks> SteveA: trying
<ddaa> Hey, I need a trivial review
<Treenaks> SteveA: Still a system error, took longer this time though
<ddaa> who has a couple of minutes to help me fight pqm hangs?
<Treenaks> SteveA: before the kill-long-queries-hack I sometimes had to reload 2 or 3 times (max timeout: Proxy 502 error) to get it right
<ddaa> david.allouche@canonical.com--2004/cscvs--quickfixes--0--patch-6
<Treenaks> SteveA: consistently
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/pybaz--devel--0: [trivial]  fix "from pybaz import *" (patch-41: ddaa@ddaa.net)
<SteveA> Treenaks: thanks for helping out.  can you try once again?
<Treenaks> SteveA: *click*
<Treenaks> SteveA: wow, instantly!
<SteveA> okay, we've worked out what the problem is.
<SteveA> it isn't fixed properly right now
<SteveA> but we can now work on a proper fix
<Treenaks> SteveA: I also reported this as #2465 btw
<SteveA> thanks
<SteveA> carlos: ping
<carlos> SteveA, pong
<carlos> kiko-zzz, new language pack with workarounds and .pot files being built...
<zorglub_> ddaa: it apparently failed :)
<niemeyer> Greetings!
<carlos> SteveA, stub I have a small problem
<carlos> SteveA, stub I'm not able to merge latest rocketfuel into hte branch where I have the karma fixes
<SteveA> why is that?
<carlos> bazaar takes all my laptop memory (1.5GB RAM + 1.5GB SWAP) and dies
<SteveA> well, we want to cherrypick it anyway
<SteveA> so what is your branch?
<SteveA> so, we want to get the diff against production, ideally
<SteveA> not against rocketfuel
<carlos> SteveA, the problem is that the diff shows changes unrelated that I think are already merged, but I'm not sure...
<carlos> ok
<SteveA> are the changes isolated?
<SteveA> can you list the files that need to be changed?
* carlos looks to the whole diff and checks...
<carlos> SteveA,  carlos.perello@canonical.com--2004/launchpad--devel--0 is the branch
* spacey wants to set his hackergotchi icon in launchpad ^_^
* SteveA switches to carlos' branch
<carlos> SteveA,  https://chinstrap.ubuntu.com/~dsilvers/paste/fileKkDk6S.html
<carlos> SteveA, those are all changes 
<SteveA> so, if i apply that to production, that's all that's needed?
<carlos> I think so, yes
<SteveA> okay.  i'll switch to the production branch, and make a cherrypick branch for this change
<SteveA> is the code involved in this tested?
<carlos> I need to add some tests to be sure that if works always but with that change the amount of imports will be reduced for sure
<carlos> s/imports/inserts/
<carlos> Not fully tested
<carlos> that's why it's not yet merged
<carlos> I wrote it before leaving for holidays
<carlos> I tested it
<carlos> and the code works, but I'm not 100% sure if it fix all cases
<SteveA> what kind of object is selection.activesubmission ?
<SteveA> a dbschema item?
<carlos> no
<carlos> a POSubmission object
<SteveA> so, i think it is safer to compare with .id == .id
<carlos> ok
<mpt> Goooooooooooooood morning
<SteveA> can selection.activesubmission or selection.publishedsubmission be None ?
<carlos> mpt, morning!
<carlos> SteveA, yes
<SteveA> one or both?
<carlos> both
<SteveA> +    if active == published:
<SteveA> +        # The translation came from a published file so we don't add karma.
<SteveA> +        return
<SteveA> 
<SteveA> so, they can both be None here
<carlos> oh, both at the same time?
<carlos> no
<SteveA> ok
<carlos> well, technically is possible, but I don't think our code should allow that
<carlos> lifeless, ddaa around?
<SteveA> stub: i'm preparing a cherrypick branch.  running the tests now.
<stub> SteveA: Tests get run when it is cherry picked so you can skip that if you want
<SteveA> i'd rather make sure i did it right
<ddaa> carlos: here
<carlos> ddaa, I'm not able to merge latest rocketfuel into my carlos.perello@canonical.com--2004/launchpad--devel--0 branch
<ddaa> ...
<carlos> baz merge dies after my memory is completely used
* ddaa rolls a cigarette
<carlos> and baz merge --star-merge gives me 28 conflicts with files I didn't touch
<carlos> I don't know if it's related with the fact that I remove my revision library yesterday
<carlos> because I ran out of disk space
<ddaa> I believe the OOM condition might be related to the lack of revlib
<ddaa> you can library-add rocketfuel, that should help
<carlos> library-add ?
<carlos> how?
<carlos> I have never done that before
<ddaa> baz library-add rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0
<ddaa> adds a revision to the revision library
<ddaa> when given a branch, adds the latest revision
<carlos> ok
<carlos> doing it atm...
<carlos> done
<ddaa> if you run out of disk space, it's better to use library-relink
<ddaa> and remove some old revisions you do not need
<carlos> I want to do that after moving to breezy
<ddaa> just keeping the latest revisions of each branch should give you good results now that baz has the backbuilder
<sivang> rehi all
<ddaa> carlos: -> #bazaar
<SteveA> ddaa: Hacking faq please!
<carlos> ddaa, ok
* ddaa obliges
<Kinnison> SteveA: You remember the 'url' thing we discussed earlier?
<SteveA> yes
<Kinnison> SteveA: well, BinaryPackageFile has a url property
<Kinnison> SteveA: and it's listed in IBinaryPackageFile
* Kinnison is confusticated
<SteveA> Kinnison: okay, you're right.
<SteveA> stub: cherrypick mirroring
<SteveA> Kinnison: bogus code in the database class
<cprov> SteveA: what's exactly wrong ?
<SteveA> stub: mirrored
<SteveA> emailed to you the branch id
<stub> Done
<carlos> stub, so are you going to reenable the poimport script?
<ddaa> https://wiki.launchpad.canonical.com/LaunchpadHackingFAQ#head-7ede78aa7deeb4b4c9e649ad7bf58422279436f6
<stub> carlos: already done
<carlos> stub, ok, so 30 minutes to be sure if the performance problem is still there or not....
<carlos> stub, can I do anything to help you?
<stub> me? I'm paying GTA3. I don't think you can help from there ;)
<carlos> ;-)
* carlos -> lunch
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--production--1.33: Cherry pick rosetta script karma fix (patch-10: steve.alexander@canonical.com)
<ddaa> ???
<ddaa> print >> open(difffile,'w'), diff.encode('utf8')
<ddaa> UnicodeDecodeError: 'ascii' codec can't decode byte 0xe7 in position 362: ordinal not in range(128)
<ddaa> anybody got a clue about what I'm doing wrong here???
<SteveA> well
<SteveA> do you expect to encode arbitrary 8 bit data as utf-8 ? 
<SteveA> maybe you want to decode it?
<ddaa> it's UnicodeDecodeError
<ddaa> pysvn gives me utf8 at some places
<ddaa> I just coded workaround for the problems that cause yesterday, including a test for exactly the condition that the encode('utf8') is meant to catch
<SteveA> okay
<ddaa> except I get this stupid error that makes no sense from roomba
<ddaa> I'm giving print a str (it's the output of encode, right?) and it still tells me UnicodeDecodeError...
<SteveA> aha
<SteveA> so, the problem is that 'diff' is a str not a unicode
<ddaa> it's a unicode
<ddaa> that's why I'm encoding it
<ddaa> to make it a str
<SteveA> are you sure it is a unicode?
<ddaa> and anyway the error would be UnicodeEncodeError if I was wronge
<SteveA> >>> 'foo\xe7'.encode('utf-8')
<SteveA> Traceback (most recent call last):
<SteveA>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
<SteveA> UnicodeDecodeError: 'ascii' codec can't decode byte 0xe7 in position 3: ordinal not in range(128)
<SteveA> >>> u'foo\xe7'.encode('utf-8')
<SteveA> 'foo\xc3\xa7'
<SteveA> >>>
<ddaa> holy... shit
<ddaa> PYSVN IS SO BROKEN IT'S NOT EVEN FUNNY
<ddaa> why... why???
<SteveA> how about a generous sprinkling of assert isinstance(diff, unicode) ?
<ddaa> yes, but why??? What the hell was the rapidsvn guy who wrote that shit was thinking???
<SteveA> btw
<SteveA> python is evil
<SteveA> in that it allows you to treat an 8 bit string as "yeah, probably ascii"
<ddaa> SteveA: elaborate?
<SteveA> this has caused SO many problems
<ddaa> Yeah, i guess it's a painted-in-a-corner compatibility issue now.
<SteveA> screw compatibility.  this issue has cost more
<ddaa> But I agree that allowing to treat unicode strings as "yeah maybe a byte stream" is WRONG, WRONG!!!
* SteveA notes that this is why he isn't BDFL of python
<ddaa> this whole notion of "ascii string" in python is wrong
<ddaa> a string is either a byte stream (str) or a character string (unicode). This ascii shit only serves to confuse matters.
<ddaa> SteveA: you got to understand that
<ddaa> in some case the diff command will fail _internally_ with UnicodeDecodeError trying to decode non-utf8 data into a unicode object.
<ddaa> so, assumed it just being stupid, and always returned a unicode...
<SteveA> it probably doesn't do an explicit conversion
<ddaa> but now I see it's not being merely stupid, it's being actively antagonising bordering on unusable
<SteveA> and so, if a string gets through "untouched" it will remain a string
<ddaa> I imagine... yes
<ddaa> it's concatenating some gettext data there, sometimes
<ddaa> or something like that
<ddaa> okay, that's the straw that breaks the camel back.
<mpt> How do I get the URL of the person logged in?
* ddaa goes out and nukes the use of svn diff.
* mpt guesses it involves canonical_url
<Kinnison> SteveA: formatters for zope
<Kinnison> SteveA: can you point me at a simple example of a text formatter
* Kinnison needs to write one
<salgado> mpt, canonical_url(getUtility(ILaunchBag.user))
<SteveA> Kinnison:  i do not know what "formatters for zope" means
<SteveA> salgado: brackets wrong
<Kinnison> SteveA: Well, I think we have something which linkifys bug messages for example
* Kinnison wants to write something for rendering a string as an 80 column fixed-pitch terminal
<SteveA> ah
<mpt> ... in TAL? :-)
<SteveA> so a fmt:xxx thing in a page tempalte?
<Kinnison> that's the monkey
<mpt> NameError: name 'canonical_url' is not defined
<SteveA> import it
<SteveA> from canonical.launchpad.webapp
<mpt> This is TAL
<kiko> then /fmt:url, mpt?
<SteveA> of what though?
<SteveA> we don't expose the user through tal, do we?
<mpt> lp:person/fmt:url?
<mpt> let's see
<salgado> is request/lp:person ?
<SteveA> ah, okay
<kiko> request/lp:person
<ddaa> Guys.
<SteveA> i need to tidy that up
<SteveA> want to get rid of 'lp:...'
<kiko> yes ddaa 
<ddaa> The next person I catch treating a patch or a source file as anything but a byte stream will suffer incredble pain.
<ddaa> kiko: nothing personal, I'm just being angry
<Keybuk> ddaa: how else could you treat them?
<ddaa> Keybuk: e.g. doing operations with it involving a unicode string
<ddaa> will cause python to turn it into a unicode, sometimes
<kiko> stub, we're getting a bunch of permission denied error in cronscripts
<kiko> cve
<kiko> distribution
<kiko> anything you might know about?
<asmodai> kiko: oi!
<carlos> stub, how's going?
<kiko> hey asmodai 
<asmodai> kiko: got an email that he will email you ;)
<carlos> kiko, hi
<asmodai> kiko: he seems impressed/enthousiastic
<SteveA> Kinnison: i think we already have something like that
<stub> No idea. Has anyone been bitching in here?
<kiko> asmodai, that's so great!
<kiko> stub, I get error mail :)
<Kinnison> SteveA: where would it be if we did?
<SteveA> Kinnison: fmt:nice_pre
<Kinnison> SteveA: where can I see the source for that?
<SteveA>  lib/canonical/launchpad/webapp/tales.py
<SteveA> line 837
<asmodai> kiko: he cc:'d me I see
<Kinnison> SteveA: aha, ta
<Keybuk> ddaa: the problem I tend to have is unicode strings leaking out of the database
<kiko> stub, any clue what changed permissions there?
<kiko> stub, I could email the errors if you like
<ddaa> Keybuk: I had this problem at a point with cscvs, I just agressively casted them all to str() early and was done with it.
<Kinnison> SteveA: so if I have: tal:content="job/logtail"
<ddaa> (actually, with importd)
<Kinnison> SteveA: do I want tal:content="fmt:nice_pre/job/logtail" ?
<SteveA> tal:content="structure job/logtail/fmt:nice_pre"
<kiko> the opposite, Kinnison 
<Keybuk> ddaa: yeah, I do that and I *still* get leaks :-/
<stub> kiko: Is it recent, or you talking about errors generated during staging rollouts or something?
<kiko> stub, hmmmm. it was tonight (for me) -- maybe..
<ddaa> Keybuk: debuggers really lack the ability to answer "where does that object come from" sort of questions.
<kiko> stub, I'll forward them
<ddaa> Could be an interesting thing to hack with PyPy
<Keybuk> yeah, it's one thing that the MS debugging has always done that I miss
<Keybuk> tracks the creation and use of variables
<stub> I get them. I havn't got any outstanding, so would have deleted them
<Keybuk> so you can inspect a variable and see all the lines of code where it was changed and to what
<SteveA> you could hook into variable binding in python
<ddaa> mh... I would not go that far. I would be happy enough with "where was this immutable created" and "where was this attribute last assigned".
<SteveA> and record rebindings quite easily
<SteveA> but that's not the same as tracking an object and what names it has had in what namespaces
<kiko> stub, forwarded, but they were staging-mail
<stub> kiko: Then ignore them - they were from staging upgrades. Stuff doesn't run well when the db is half setup.
<carlos> stub, please, could you confirm me that the karma issue is gone?
<stub> carlos: I can't confirm it. However, nobody is in here complaining about launchpad timeouts so it might be sorted.
<carlos> stub, cannot you see the amount of imports?
<carlos> s/importS/inserts/
<kiko> stub, how could we solve this in a better way?
<stub> Not really.
<stub> kiko: Solve what?
<kiko> spurious errors being send while upgrades run.
<kiko> (obviously)
<kiko> s/send/sent
<stub> kiko: there are several discussions going on here ;)
<carlos> ok
<stub> kiko: It just involves disabling all the cron jobs before upgrades, but I havn't been game to automate that.
<kiko> it's late!
<kiko> stub, do all cronjobs import or use some sort of central infrastructure?
<kiko> we could add a quit-if-locked thing
<stub> kiko: No. I really want to have a single cron job that runs every 60 seconds that spaws everything else as required - it will make setup much easier.
<carlos> ok, so. Do you need anything from me before I leave for the weekend?
<kiko> yeah, great idea that would be
<carlos> kiko, stub, SteveA ?
<stub> We could hook into steve's 'down for maintenance' file as a quick solution though. Just a matter of engineering.
<kiko> stub, can you mail me a dump of the crontab so I can see how many scripts they are?
<kiko> music has a right to children
* kiko elbows stub 
* stub punches kiko in the face
<kiko> get some sleep cranky melbourner
<kiko> and answer my questions
<kiko> stub, also, I want a suggestion on where I should start investigating centralizing database names.
<SteveA> what does "centralizingn database names" mean?
<SteveA> i can send you a crontab output
<kiko> you know about our quagmire -- wanting to use the same database instance for various users.
<kiko> I set up individual databases but on diskless it's so slow make check takes an hour and often just hangs
<SteveA> this is at async?
<kiko> yes
<kiko> so I did some investigation of where we hardcoded database names
<kiko> it's some 40-odd files
<SteveA> how about they get them from launchpad.conf?
<kiko> there are (AFAIK) some 5 database tables
<SteveA> so, launchpaddev=launchpad-dev etc.
<SteveA> in launchpad.conf
<kiko> SteveA, I'm fine with any solution that can forseeably work, yeah
<stub> For normal code, they should all pull the database name from the config file. I'd start with that. Tests will be more complex (since they need at least a template and a scratch db name). The database build scripts should pull the names from the same location 
<kiko> I meant database names.
<stub> I thought I sent you the crontab?
<kiko> no
<kiko> stub, okay, I'll start work on that -- any suggestions on how the Makefile should obtain the names, or should I factor that out?
<stub> python -c 'import config; print config.dbname' might be the quickest (and ugliest) approach. Extra points for rewriting the makefile into a Python script that doesn't suck.
<kiko> okay
<SteveA> is there an "ant" for python
<SteveA> maybe part of phillip eby's stuff
<stub> there is, but I don't see why we would bother.
<stub> (pyant I believe).
<kiko> SteveA, just fixed the fucking floating tabs
<kiko> I had it fixed yesterday but was conflicted to death
<SteveA> yay
<SteveA> what's the fix?
<SteveA> css magic
<kiko> unfucking plone.css stupidity
<kiko> by adding hacks to our css
<kiko> it does ul { line-height: 1.5em }
<kiko> so I had to do
<kiko> line-height: inherit; max-height: 1.4em; because of IE
<mpt> kiko: IE doesn't do max-height either, you'll need line-height: 1.4em instead
<asmodai> Makes you wonder if some people test on non-mozilla browsers in the first place
<Kinnison> is pqm wedged? PID 31103 seems the obvious candidate
<mpt> asmodai: There's no Windows here. Normally I'd test on Konqueror, but it's not installed here either
* mpt bugs kiko to install it
<salgado> mpt, you can just type 'scooby' in a terminal and you'll get windows. but please don't tell anybody we have windows here. :P
<bradb> mpt: Just so you know: I'm doing a Malone feedback-a-thon patch right now. The goal is pretty much to not be able to do something in Malone without Malone telling you what you did (and who got an email about it.)
<asmodai> mpt: You do test with Opera though? :)
<bradb> mpt: Or, of course, what you did /wrong/, if applicable
<mpt> asmodai: Opera's not even on the radar at the moment, but that might need to change if their new-found ad-free-ness makes them more popular on Free OSes
* asmodai goes to add more todo list items in trac as tickets
* mpt tried Opera for Mac on Wednesday, and it was horribly awful as usual
<asmodai> mmm
<bradb> limi loves Opera, last I checked
<asmodai> guess it is more of a blessing on Windows then ;)
<bradb> which means our CSS should work pretty well in Opera
<mpt> bradb: To see how untrue that is, try removing the plone.css line from main-template.pt, and Shift+reloading
<mpt> plone.css is currently (1) providing the portlet borders, and (2) ****ing up the tabs
<mpt> and that's about all.
<bradb> right, i see
<bradb> the tabs line up nicely too :)
* bradb wonders why we even have a plone.css then
<mpt> :-)
<asmodai> to point fingers? :)
<bradb> to piss users off slightly more, it would seem
<bradb> mpt: how much effort is it to get rid of plone.css?
<kiko> mpt, I'll try doing it today
<kiko> bradb, it's two lines of main-template, I almost did it yesterday
<kiko> because we haven't formed enough of a mutiny yet!
<mpt> That's right
<mpt> A spec with an array of ImportantPersonApproved in its Status: header
<bradb> kiko: two lines of main-template? I meant how much effort also so that it doesn't break the current look-and-feel.
<bradb> sounds like it's just a few classes to bring over, in any case
<kiko> bradb, about 10 minutes of my time
<bradb> awesome
<mpt> I'd like to do it more carefully than that, though
<mpt> because a lot of launchpad.css is overriding bits of plone.css
<kiko> Kinnison, you really need should start using variables to shorten and simplify your code
<kiko> it's very difficult to read
<mpt> so I'd like concatenate the files, then nuke the sections that cancel each other out
<kiko>             overrides.setdefault(distrorelease, {})
<kiko>             overrides[distrorelease] .setdefault(component, {})
<kiko>             overrides[distrorelease] [component] .setdefault('src', [] )
<kiko>             overrides[distrorelease] [component] ['src'] .append( (sourcepackagename,section) )
<kiko>             overrides.setdefault(distrorelease, {})
<kiko>             overrides[distrorelease] .setdefault(component, {})
<kiko>             overrides[distrorelease] [component] .setdefault('bin', [] )
<kiko>             overrides[distrorelease] [component] ['bin'] .append( (binarypackagename,priority,section) )
<kiko> and using setdefault() is just.. ugh
<kiko> somebody remind me why python even has setdefault?
<Kinnison> because it's useful
<Kinnison> and neat
<Kinnison> and tidy
<kiko>             filelist.setdefault(distrorelease, {})
<kiko>             filelist[distrorelease] .setdefault(component,{})
<kiko>             filelist[distrorelease] [component] .setdefault(architecturetag,[] )
<kiko>             filelist[distrorelease] [component] [architecturetag] .append(ondiskname)                   
<kiko> dude, this is anything but neat and tidy
<stub> Its neater than the alternative using if: then: or exception handling, and is quite a bit faster (despite all the spurious empty list and dictionary creations)
<SteveA> setdefault is good
<bradb> dumb question: where do I find the error log for staging, and for which I have the perms to view it?
<SteveA> and everyone should learn what it means
<SteveA> Kinnison: you should look at using a descriptive variable name for filelist[distrorelease]  and filelist[distrorelease] [component] 
<Kinnison> Okay, I'll put that on my gardening page
<Kinnison> done
<Kinnison> SteveA: I'm trying to learn how tal/tales/metal work
<bradb> guys, I've found what may be a critical bug (500 on the +assignedbugs screen). where do I find the error log (in a place that I have perms to view it) for staging so that I can fix this problem before it hits prod?
<Kinnison> SteveA: We seem to use @@blahfoo in our tales expressions
<Kinnison> SteveA: what does the @@ mean?
<SteveA> it means "force the lookup to be in the 'views' namespace, and not any other kind of traversal"
<SteveA> think of it as two eyes, if you like
<Kinnison> is that a launchpad specific thing, a zope thing, or a generic tales thing?
<bradb> stub: Where do I find the error log for staging (in a place that I have perms to view it?)
<stub> On /errors ?
<bradb> Already tried that. 403.
<stub> Thats odd
* stub wonders if SteveA got around to playing with the errors screen
<SteveA> i wrote up a spec
<SteveA> got other things to do first
<bradb> stub: In the meantime, how do I get access to the error log for staging?
<stub> bradb: chinstrap:~stub/staging_logs
<bradb> thanks, /me looks
<bradb> stub: what's the query timeout on staging? it seems like launchpad is commiting suicide on staging because of it.
<bradb> see also, committing
<stub> bradb: That it to stop pages locking up launchpad and making nothing work. If you hit the timeout, the page needs fixing.
<bradb> stub: These pages worked just fine in the past. They take a bit longer, but nothing that kills the entire system.
<bradb> stub: Can the timeout be set to something more practical, while still making sure Rosetta doesn't kill LP?
<stub> bradb: they arn't working any more then. If a page takes a couple of seconds to render, it is dangerous to the system.
<stub> bradb: On production it is set to 12 seconds, which is waaay too much.
<BjornT> bradb: i'd suggest to remove "Bugs reported on software you maintain", it's kind of useless anyway.
<kiko> stub, I think a better strategy may be to set to 30s and drop 5s a week
<bradb> stub: This doesn't make sense to me. The timeout is set so low that it's killing pages that worked perfectly fine in the past. At the very least, shouldn't we optimize these pages *before* slitting their throat?
<bradb> BjornT: so would i
<kiko> stub, and keep staging 5s under production
<kiko> that way people have time to fix pages
<bradb> BjornT: i would also suggest removing that "bugs with common interest" uselessness, but kiko wants to keep it
<kiko> the current situation is going to kill my QA effort
<kiko> we're getting bugs filed left and right on killed queries :-(
<mpt> bradb: that should be cached
<SteveA> kiko: do you think the error page should say "this was a query that ran too slow" ?
<kiko> bradb, hey, do what you have to do -- I don't think it's useless *at all*, but if it kills the page, disable it
<stub> kiko: 12 seconds is already rediculous.
<kiko> SteveA, anything that stops people filing bugs, we have some 15 already
<bradb> kiko: more accurately, i just don't think that it belongs under +assignedbugs
<SteveA> kiko: do you think it will help?
<SteveA> we could have one bug
<SteveA> and link the page to that bug
<kiko> stub, I don't disagree, but it's no use throwing out baby and bathwater
<stub> kiko: If people are still reporting bugs, I doubt the pages will render in 30 seconds either.
<SteveA> so people can add comments to it if they want
<SteveA> but keep it all in the one place
<kiko> SteveA, the issue is that the bugs on individual queries/locations are actually useful
<kiko> I think the error page should say "Query took too long"
<SteveA> ok
<SteveA> i'll make it so
<kiko> thanks a million
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: Fix a missed table rename from long ago which was breaking binarypackagefile.url. Celso is putting a test into his soyuzfiles test suite for this. in the meantime, r=stevea (patch-2474: daniel.silverstone@canonical.com)
<SteveA> i'm also going to make tracebacks appear in production for the admin team
<kiko> stub, I don't know, translations used to work, now..
<kiko> SteveA, rock!
<stub> kiko: They used to have fewer entries in the tables too. Now there are tables with over 15,000,000 rows in them and there is just stuff we cannot do interactively no matter how many indexes, how much hardware we throw at it and how much people jump up and down.
<bradb> So, what are we going to raise the timeouts too? I think it would be useful to do what kiko was saying. Set a pretty high limit at first, gradually dropping it every week, giving us time to examine linkchecker reports and time to do something about it.
<bradb> s/too/to/
<kiko> +1 to bradb's request
<kiko> SteveA, stub: can you consider what we're asking for? I can't have launchpad dying under me as I'm triaging or..
<stub> 12 seconds is already rediculously high, so I'm quite happy to reduce that to pretty high
<kiko> increase you mean? :)
<stub> pretty high < rediculously high.
<bradb> stub: "ridiculously high" would be high enough to let Rosetta keep killing LP
<stub> bradb: It might well be
<stub> bradb: The real nasty pages took over 6 minutes to render
<bradb> Yes, and we've never had that kind of problem in Malone. I'm just suggesting that we set it high enough to let Malone keep working (even if, in some cases, that seems retardedly slow from a DBA perspective) and let us improve it before we tighten the noose too much.
<stub> bradb: What pages does malone have that are hitting the 12 second limiton production?
<bradb> i dunno. i was talking about staging.
<bradb> people were reporting problems with bug searching suddenly erroring out on prod though, which, seen from the user perspective, is *really* bad when it can so easily be avoided.
<stub> bradb: not from a dba perspective, from a web developer and user perspecive. More than a few seconds, and people hit reload. All four threads lock up, queues start happening and launchpad is locked solid.
<stub> bradb: Was that before or after steve increased the timeout to 12 seconds?
<bradb> after
<bradb> er, sorry
<bradb> after the timeout was set, but i don't know when it was increased to 12s
<bradb> i believe it was yesterday that users were complaining about this
<stub> It was originally set to 4 seconds (about 24 hours ago), and steve increased it to 12 seconds over the next 12 hours or so
<bradb> stub: just to compare, what is it on staging?
<stub> I can set staging to whatever will help people debug their code the best. I'd assumed a lower limit would be good for that.
<bradb> damn, i just got an error on searching
<stub> 4 seconds, or possibly 2.
<bradb> on prod, searching ubuntu bugs
<stub> 2 seconds
<bradb> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+bugs, I searched for "firefox". i got an error.
<stub> just returned in < 2 seconds for me. So that page is going slow because other processes or threads are taking too long. Increasing the timeout could make it worse.
<bradb> Why not try it and see what happens?
<bradb> we can't get /much/ worse that sporadic errors that make this much --> <-- sense to a user :)
<stub> because it is already 1:30 am saturday morning and steve won't be around much longer either to reset it if it screws up
<stub> before, launchpad was totally unusable so it *can* get much, much worse. We cherry picked the updates and spent the time switching this on for a reason.
<bradb> stub: you say "launchpad", but we know what you really mean :)
<bradb> hint, it wasn't Malone
<stub> no, launchpad. The entire thing locks up. everything is affected.
<bradb> sure, but I'm pretty sure that's not due to Malone queries, even the slowest ones :)
<kiko> there's no such thing as "rosetta and not malone"
<kiko> you're all in the same boat together
<kiko> anyway
<kiko> stub, could it be that the vacuum analyzes running do some slowing down of production as well?
<bradb> kiko: the distinction is important in diagnosing the speed bottlenecks, i think
<kiko> I'm seeing them a lot in the cron output
<stub> kiko: that is another database being vacuumed.
<kiko> stub, and the instance copes fine with multiple vacuums in terms of performance?
<stub> it is fine.
<stub> queries are quick - there isn't a performance issue with the db.
<stub> just some pages are issuing hundreds to render a single page (such as some of the malone bug pages IIRC!), and some queries are blocking due to other processes locking resources for too long.
<bradb> SteveA: I've got two pages: A and B. A presents information about an object. From A, you click on the link to page B to change something about that object. When you submit, the change is made, and you're taken back to page A with a message like "The following fields were updated successfully: foo, bar, baz." Do we have a standard way of displaying feedback messages in this pattern, or should B post to A, and let A do the processing
* cprov lunch
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: remove time dependence from some database tests [r=spiv]  (patch-2475: james.henstridge@canonical.com)
* bradb & # lunch
<kiko>         for translator in self.context.translators:
<kiko>             return True
<kiko> somebody
<kiko> please
<kiko> TELL ME WHY?
<ddaa> *giggle*
<ddaa> the answer has to be:
<ddaa> BECAUSE!
<kiko> god
<ddaa> quick, annotate!
* kiko scratches head
<kiko> quick? :)
<ddaa> well, you know what I meant...
<kiko>         """We need to have this to tell us if there are any translators."""
<kiko> that's the docstring
<kiko> I love docstrings
<SteveA> obviously it should be 'yield True' ;-)
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: remove time dependence from some database tests [r=spiv]  (patch-2476)
<ddaa> btw
<ddaa> that sholud be followed by
<ddaa> else:
<ddaa>     return False
<jordi> kiko: hey man
<jordi> I'll need your help in a min.
<ddaa> seen that way, it almost makes sense in some perverse way
<sivang> hey jordi , what's up? 
<SteveA> ddaa: else: doesn't make sense for an break doesn't make sense
<SteveA> ddaa: else: doesn't make sense for an 'if' without a 'break'
<ddaa> I have to agree.
<ddaa> But I think it makes sense for a 'repeate' with a 'return'.
<kiko> SteveA, but nothing in that code made sense anyway :)
<ddaa> (hint: reread yourself)
<ddaa> SteveA: can I quote you on that?
<kiko> no
<kiko> he meant
<kiko> else: doesn't make sense for a 'for' without a 'break'
<kiko> you can quote me on that
<SteveA> indeed i did
<kiko> of course I'm eminently less quotable than anybody here
<kiko> but I mean well
<jordi> sivang: hey
<jordi> kiko: team ubuntu-l10n-tl to ubuntu-translators
<kiko> pyflakes doesn't understand decorators
<kiko> welcome to hell
<kiko> (PWEI)
<kiko> me looks
<SteveA> http://localhost:8086/products/firefox/+bug/6
<SteveA> tell me
<SteveA> where should menu items for that page go?
<SteveA> this is replacing bug-portlet-actions
<SteveA> so i guess in browser/bug.py
<SteveA> BjornT: opinion?
<jordi> kiko?
<jordi> SteveA: are you guys able to add plural forms?
<SteveA> i cannot
<SteveA> mail the launchpad list
<SteveA> i think stu can
<SteveA> he'll read it there, probably tomorrow
<jordi> k
<kiko> jordi, what do you mean by "add plural forms"
<jordi> https://launchpad.net/products/gnomebaker/+series/main/+pots/gnomebaker/tl/+translate
<kiko> what is tl, jordi?
<kiko> tagalog
<kiko> jordi, done
<jordi> oops, just sent an email, I'll reply so stu doeesn't do anything
<jordi> kiko: team stuff done too?
<jordi> ok
<jordi> does the plural forms thing take  effect immediatly?
<kiko> jordi, team stuff done
<kiko> jordi, how many plural forms?
<kiko> what expression?
<jordi> Plural-Forms is nplurals=2; plural=n>1;
<kiko> okay
<kiko> jordi, can you verify both requests are ok?
<jordi> ok for the teams, and rosetta doesn't barf anymore about pluiral forms
<jordi> so I guess it's ok
<SteveA> pleurisy ?
<kiko> bradb, ping?
<jordi> lp is slow lately
<kiko> yeah. no clue why
<jordi> damn :/
<niemeyer> Isn't it because there are lots of new users?
<kiko> ah, shipit?
<SteveA> yeah\
<SteveA> we could put shipit on its own app server, but i think most of the contention is with the database 
<SteveA> and its locking
<kiko> but shipit is only simple requests
<kiko> assignedbugs doesn't run /at all/ on staging
<kiko> SteveA: please up the time to at least 20s
<kiko> we need some time to fix these issues
* kiko cries
<jordi> our release ended today, more or less.
<jordi> we had a few very last minute hickups.
<jordi> like our drupal eating our "download" node.
<jordi> kiko: uh, to the gnomebaker template? I am interested in the global one. gnomebaker was just an example.
<jordi> anywy. They can translate gnomebaker until tomorrow.
<kiko> jordi, there is no global template -- I think stub needs to twiddle the language
<jordi> yes, it's something in the database
<jordi> is he the only one with db access for this kind of stuff?
<jordi> there shouldbe ui for you guys to do it.
<kiko> indeed
<jordi> hmm
<jordi> I can't find that simple menu editor for gnome in launchpad.
<jordi> isn't it part of ubuntu?
<jordi> if something is part of breezy, it should ahve a product already in rosetta, right?
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: [trivial]  Fix the damned floating tabs, and display status for bugwatches in the bugwatch-index (patch-2477: christian.reis@canonical.com)
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: [trivial]  small shuffle on arch-indep packages for gina (patch-2478: daniel.silverstone@canonical.com)
<bloodthirsty> hello
<bloodthirsty> is anybody here?
<kiko> NO
<kiko> Kinnison, could you make lint before committing code? it will help catch lots of little style issues before review, I think you'll appreciate it
<kiko> I'm fixing it up to warn less of non-issues
<Kinnison> kiko: okay, I'll try to remember that
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: [trivial]  delintify and add XXXs galore to archivepublishing bits (patch-2479: christian.reis@canonical.com)
<kiko> thanks
<kiko> I added some XXXs there for you
<Kinnison> Right
<kiko> Kinnison, and btw:
<kiko> builddmaster.py
<kiko> startBuild()
<kiko> not tested
<kiko> not used
<kiko>     def startBuild(self, builders, builder, queueItem, pocket):
<kiko>         """Find the list of files and give them to the builder."""
<kiko>         archrelease = queueitem.build.distroarchrelease
<kiko> typo in first line
<kiko> cprov, make note, I'll fix but XXX
<SteveA> hey gneuman 
<SteveA> arond?
<SteveA> um, around?
<gneuman> SteveA, 
<SteveA> hi
<gneuman> me
<SteveA> you
<gneuman> =] 
<SteveA> so, i think i found a bug on a page, but i'm in the middle of menus work
<SteveA> so, i don't want to track it down right now
<SteveA> can you look into it?
<gneuman> tell me about it
<gneuman> sure
<SteveA> okay, here's what i did
<SteveA> run launchpad with sample data, as normal
<SteveA> http://localhost:8086/distros/ubuntu/warty/+sources/mozilla-firefox/+bug/5
<SteveA> go there
<gneuman> am i suppsoe to be doing it while u talk?
<SteveA> there's a box on the bottom right
<SteveA> about "links to remote bug trackers"
<SteveA> click the +add link
<SteveA> get a 404
<gneuman> ok
<gneuman> hold on
<Kinnison> kiko: If you're going to touch the buildmaster I'd really rather you didn't
<Kinnison> kiko: I'm making notes about the buildmaster ready for a cleanup
<kiko> Kinnison, too late now :)
<Kinnison> okay, I'll try and not use line numbers :-)
<kiko> writing clean code the first time is a better approach to quality, anyway :)
<kiko> nice! much better
<gneuman> SteveA, 
<gneuman> i didnt get the 404
<gneuman> let me try a lilttel more
<gneuman> its actually adding bug watchers
<SteveA> okay
<SteveA> that's good, then
<gneuman> =] 
<SteveA> maybe it is just something on my branch
<kiko> SteveA, what's the URI that is a 404?
* Kinnison heads out for the night
<gneuman> kiko, http://localhost:8086/distros/ubuntu/warty/+sources/mozilla-firefox/+bug/5
<SteveA> http://localhost:8086/distros/ubuntu/warty/+sources/mozilla-firefox/+bug/5/watches/+new
<Kinnison> ciao all
<SteveA> bye
<kiko> gneuman, is that URI a 404?
<kiko> see ya kinni
<gneuman> http://localhost:8086/distros/ubuntu/warty/+sources/mozilla-firefox/+bug/5/+addwatch
<gneuman> works
<gneuman> maybe SteveA is using a diferene link
<gneuman> this is a addwatch
<gneuman> not watches new
<SteveA> strange
<SteveA> okay, i'll find out when i come to merge this into PQM
<SteveA> see the diff
<gneuman> ok
<SteveA> thanks gneuman 
<gneuman> no prob
<kiko> SteveA, have you merged in bradb's latest changes already?
<SteveA> think so
<SteveA> i did a merge just 1 hour ago
<kiko> weird as weird can be then
<kiko> maybe you baz smashed that change?
<SteveA> dunno
<SteveA> i'll see what the diff against RF gives when it is time to get a review
<kiko> SteveA, it's broken, gneuman has an old tree
<kiko> gneuman, you need to baz merge rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0
<kiko> then try again
<kiko> matsubara, same with you
<SteveA> okay
<gneuman> ok
<SteveA> so, this could be a regression
<BjornT> SteveA: did you click on the link in the action menu, or the bug watch portlet. the add link in the bug watch portlet seems to be broken in my tree, but not in the actions portlet
<mdke> erm
<mdke> silly question
<mdke> how do I mark a bug as fixed in malone?
<kiko> mdke, you mark the task as fixed
<kiko> so click on the link in the task table
<mdke> i see it
<mdke> thanks
<SteveA> BjornT: that's what i'm seeing
<kiko> me too
<mdke> kiko, what about if I am not the assignee? it can't be marked as fixed/notabug etc?
<mdke> kiko, e.g. #2270, i marked the task which was assigned to me as fixed, but the original task (wrongly assigned to rosetta) is not a bug and I can't mark it as such
* SteveA goes for a short workrave
<kiko> mdke, you can't fix that, but any launchpad developer can
<kiko> one moment
* BjornT checks the other portlets for incorrect links and creates branch to fix it
<mdke> kiko, can the bug reported fix that?
<kiko> mdke, what bug?
<mdke> sorry
<mdke> kiko, s/reported/reporter
<kiko> I'm not sure. BjornT or bradb?
<kiko> mdke, at any rate, I've fixed that bug, thanks for letting me know :)
<mdke> kiko, no problem, thanks. But I am genuinely interested in whether a bug reporter can reject their own bug, do you know the answer?
<mdke> oh sorry
<mdke> i missed your response
<kiko> I'm not entirely sure.
<kiko> mpt, why are you worried about performance of string replacement?
<gneuman> mpt isnt here
<kiko> hmmm, right. I just got mail from him though
<mdke> his away message is "classes"
<kiko> mdke, apparently you can, right?
<mdke> kiko, i haven't tried yet
<mdke> i wasn't the reporter of that bug
<kiko> ah
* bradb returns
<SteveA> gneuman: http://localhost:8086/malone/cve/  <-- needs a spelling check
<bradb> mdke: The bug reporter can't edit the bug status (at least, not solely by virtue of being the reporter of the bug.) This sucks.
<bradb> kiko: re: assignedbugs, yeah, i know :/
<mdke> bradb, yeah that sucks a bit
<mdke> is there a bug open on that?
<bradb> kiko: that's why i'm pleaded earlier for a semblance of a plan before lp commits suicide
<kiko> I know
<bradb> mdke: https://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/1156 seems similar
<bradb> SteveA: did you see my question earlier re: passing feedback messages between views/urls/pages?
<bradb> SteveA: btw, yes, in case somebody didn't already note it, the add watch link is incorrect in the watches portlet
<bradb> kiko: is that what you fixed? (the add watch link in the watches portlet?)
<kiko> bradb, nope, bjorn was looking at it, but..
<bradb> i'll fix it here
<kiko> bradb, you can leave the easier things for gneuman and matsubara you know :)
<kiko> salgado-lunch?
<bradb> it was a one second fix to commit as part of the feedback-a-thon branch :P
<bradb> all i need to figure out now is a way to pass messages between views that doesn't suck
<SteveA> bradb: look at the spec.  if the spec doesn't meet your needs, add a question at the end.
<bradb> which spec?
<bradb> right, i see it
* bradb reads
<mpt> kiko: Only worried about the effect of doing fancy processing for ~10 menu items and ~1 page title per page
<kiko> mpt, does it involve linear regression or calculation of pi to the Nth root?
<SteveA> mpt: i've done almost all the menus up to and including m..
<mpt> SteveA, you speed demon
<SteveA> i have some questions though
* mpt is still mired in support tracker
<bradb> SteveA: Any idea what the status of the BNM implementation is?
<SteveA> is it tracked in launchpad?
<SteveA> if not, it should be
<bradb> SteveA: ah yes, it is. https://launchpad.net/products/launchpad/+spec/browser-notification-messages makes me want to die.
<bradb> but, good on stub for putting it in there. using the spec tracker will help us improve its UI.
* bradb files some spec UI bugs
<nkour> jordi, ping
<gneuman> SteveA, going to see that
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: [trivial]  increase staging page timeout to 8 seconds (patch-2480: stuart.bishop@canonical.com)
<kiko> wooo stub
<nkour> jordi,  I updated italina and it is 100% the file, but rosetta now 10 hours still says 0% https://launchpad.net/products/gajim/+series/0.8/+pots/gajim
<SteveA> gneuman, matsubara: hiya!  i have found some code that needs fixing.  up for it?
<nkour> kiko, ?
<nkour> kiko, can u fix it
<gneuman> sure we are
<SteveA> okay, great
<SteveA> so, the first thing is, on a person's own page, there are facilities to add an 'emblem' and a 'hackergotchi'
<SteveA> these facilities aren't tested or documented, but i was looking at the pages as part of the menus work i'm doing, and it seems pretty clear that a person is meant to be able to add their own hackergotchi.
<SteveA> unfortunately, the permissions prevent this at present
<bradb> kiko: assignedbugs works now! :)
<gneuman> so we have to change permitions?
<SteveA> please look into this, make it so that people can add their own hackergotchi, and prove it with a pagetest
<GnuKemist> excuse me...  I can validate that too...  tried it and was stuck with permission msg
<gneuman> ok, kiko will guide us
<SteveA> mpt: do you think the root +login page should, on successful login, go to that person's own page?
<SteveA> GnuKemist: thanks
<bradb> SteveA: is there not meant to be a workflow to adding a hackergotchi, to prevent pr0n spamming and such?
<GnuKemist> SteveA, np =)
<bradb> SteveA: i.e. a workflow that requires some review team to approve hackergotchis (sp?)
<pablof> how create new project in launcpad ? i'm not find out a link
<SteveA> bradb: dunno
<SteveA> bradb: the entire feature isn't documented
<SteveA> bradb: https://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/2501/  <-- add your concern here
<mpt> SteveA: No, but I do think the front page should be a bit more current-person-specific
<SteveA> well, it doesn't even go back to the front page at present
<SteveA> that can be fixed
<mpt> I think that bug was reported
<SteveA> gneuman, matsubara: also, check carefully the spelling on those pages.  i noticed at least one typo.
<GnuKemist> SteveA, one thing I noticed... after you log in, should you have a Profile link somewhere?
<SteveA> you can click on your own name at the top right.
<SteveA> is that what you mean?
<GnuKemist> yup... but I thought that "profile" would be more clear
<GnuKemist> and a link to browse the people list
<SteveA> mpt: can we have a title on that link?
<GnuKemist> I could only do it by clicking on the people link above... but don't think it to be intuitive for the regular user
<GnuKemist> just my oppinion off course
<SteveA> https://launchpad.net/  <--- there's a link to "people and teams", second box down, LHS
<GnuKemist> saw it
<GnuKemist> sorry
<SteveA> is that what you had in mind ?
<GnuKemist> yes...  it wasn't on my field of vision
<GnuKemist> ;)
<GnuKemist> I was looking for it up abopve
<GnuKemist> above
<bradb> SteveA, mpt: Is there anything I can be doing right now to help the Malone menus implementation along? I'm not really clear what state menus are in, and how much work I'll have to do for Malone menus to be considered implemented.
<GnuKemist> upper right hand corner
<SteveA> bradb: i've converted all malone actions portlets to menus on a branch
<bradb> SteveA: cool. when do you expect to land that?
<SteveA> very soon
<bradb> great, thanks
<mpt> SteveA: As a way of saying "hey, this is your profile page", I think adding the person icon to the left of the existing name link would work
<SteveA> cool
* mpt sighs at the ninja-star person icon
<SteveA> the ninja-star person sighs back, and looks doe-eyed at mpt
<mpt> ooh, requited!
<SteveA> bradb: ping
<bradb> SteveA: pong
<SteveA> i just mailed you a diff
<SteveA> there's some stuff in there that is marked XXX
<SteveA> about a method of a view class that should be made into a method on IBug
<SteveA> to avoid duplicated or poorly factored code
<SteveA> it is about getting the subscription for a person
<SteveA> so, it should be something like IBug.subscriptionForPerson(person)
<SteveA> if you would make such a method, and refactor existing RF code to use it, that would speed up the landing of the rest of it
<bradb> that sounds like an unneeded method
<bradb> IBug already has isSubscribed. i can't see what the use case is for getting the actual subscription row.
<SteveA> various views need it
<SteveA> so, there's code in a couple of places that loops over subscriptions looking for one that matches
<SteveA> read the diff
<SteveA> in my branch, i factored the code out into a function at the module level of a view module
<SteveA> but it needs to become a method on IBug 
<bradb> yup, I read the diff. looking only at the code, it's still not clear to me why that method is needed for anything.
<SteveA> it is needed in both a menu, and a view
* bradb looks to see how it's used, once he unbreaks his branch, destroyed whilst an undo ran out of disk space
<bradb> SteveA: what magic can you do with that method that you don't do with IBug.isSubscribed?
<bradb> s/don't/can't/
<SteveA>     @property
<SteveA>     def subscription(self):
<SteveA>         """Return the current user's IBugSubscription.
<SteveA>         If the user is not subscribed to this bug, return None.
<SteveA>         XXX: refactor into method on IBug.
<SteveA>         """
<SteveA>         user = getUtility(ILaunchBag).user
<SteveA>         if user is None:
<SteveA>             return None
<SteveA>         for subscription in self.context.subscriptions:
<SteveA>             if subscription.person.id == user.id:
<SteveA>                 return subscription
<SteveA>         return None
<SteveA> 
<SteveA> first of all, that should be a method on IBug
<SteveA> it is not good having that code in the view.
<bradb> i think that method can probably be completely removed
<bradb> unless we have a use case for why you need to get the IBugSubscription of a person
<SteveA> ?
<SteveA> it is used by a template
<bradb> it's crystal clear to me that there is view code using that, but not why that view code is needed at all, given that there's IBug.isSubscribed.
<SteveA> and in a menu, i need to know whether someone is subscribed or not
<bradb> IBug.isSubscribed.
<SteveA> okay
<SteveA> so it is only ever used in tal:condition
<SteveA> so, i'll refactor these to use IBug.isSubscribed onthe branch.
<SteveA> ta
<bradb> np
* SteveA goes home
<sivang> bye SteveA 
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: [trivial]  Lint fixes all over the tree. Improve lint script to reduce clutter, and paved the way for a lintmerge. (patch-2481: christian.reis@canonical.com)
<kiko> YES!
* bradb & # out
#launchpad 2005-09-29
<kiko> gneuman, bug assigned to you
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: [trivial]  fix broken link in add watches portlet (patch-2482: brad.bollenbach@canonical.com)
<mpt> g'night, padders
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: [trivial]  Implement make lintmerge. (patch-2483: christian.reis@canonical.com)
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: [trivial]  Fixing download_url for Dogfood configuration (patch-2484: celso.providelo@canonical.com)
<lifeless> win 16
<zyga> hmmm
<zyga> what has happened to the karma counter?
<zyga> did everything jus re-set?
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: [trivial]  Check Soyuz usage of Librarian API (SourcePackageFile and BinaryFiles), test added and small fixes for builddUI after dogfood usage. (patch-2485: celso.providelo@canonical.com)
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: [trivial]  db permissions and fixes (patch-2486: stuart.bishop@canonical.com)
<zyga> where can one complain about wiki css
<nkour> jordi, hi are you here?
<jordi> yes, but I need to leave very soon
<nkour> jordi, wait
<nkour> jordi, one day has passed and italian po 100% is still 0% https://launchpad.net/products/gajim/+series/0.8/+pots/gajim/
<nkour> I uploaded the po so I know it's 100%
<nkour> but rosetta says 0%
<nkour> I wrote to the ML but apparently noone aproved my messg and/or noone replied
<nkour> I uploaed via https://launchpad.net/products/gajim/+series/0.8/+pots/gajim/it/+upload
<jordi> strange, that should have worked.
<nkour> I'm not italian, but it hsould work (carlos told me) as it's more handy that to upload a tarball with POT and po
<jordi> can I try to do it myself?
<nkour> jordi, of course
<jordi> nkour: where do I get the file?
<nkour> jordi, http://trac.gajim.org/file/trunk/po/it/LC_MESSAGES/gajim.po?rev=3716&format=raw
<nkour> [15:03:32]  ua: it upload very slowly 
<nkour> [15:04:02]  ua: when i upload the last i received a messege of the upload it's correct 19 hours ago
<nkour> [15:04:19]  nkour: wow!
<nkour> ua is the basque transl (also in rosetta)
<nkour> but for me it's more than a day
<jordi> basque is eu
<nkour> jordi, I know he had to wait 19 hours. and now he has it 100% but he has to wait very long
<jordi> let's see
<nkour> IT I waited for a day
<nkour> k
<jordi> I'll get dressed and so on while we wait
<jordi> that's strange.
<jordi> I don't know why it doesn't show up.
<jordi> I'll mail the list.
<nkour> jordi, thanks
<kiko-zzz> ahoy matsubara 
<matsubara> oba!
<kiko> hey BjornT 
<kiko> jamesh?
<BjornT> hi kiko 
<kiko> how's lithuania this time of the year?
<kiko> SteveA tells me you've got a mountain bike
<kiko> I was telling bradb to get one for me to rent in Montreal
<BjornT> not too bad actually, but it's starting to get worse...
<kiko> have you and SteveA gone riding?
<BjornT> no. when i went to canada i didn't exercise that much, and i just started recently to ride again, so i'm quite out of shape :)
<kiko> what bike do you have?
<BjornT> the frame is from an old mongoose, suspension fork marzocchi mx comp eta, derailleurs and such shimano XT
<BjornT> do you think there will be some opportunity to ride in montreal?
<kiko> nice bike
<kiko> yeah!
<kiko> either the 6am bike call or the weekends
<BjornT> cool. i'll talk to bradb about getting me a bike as well, it'd be nice to ride some there
<kiko> definitely
<kiko> I'm taking my helmet and pedals and shoes
<kiko> or maybe I could just buy another helmet there, extra helmets are never a bad idea
<BjornT> yeah, i'll probably look into buying some stuff while i'm there, finding good bike parts in lithuania is hard :(
<eruin> what does  	 xxx-deprecated-do-not-use-1 in rosetta mean really?
<kiko> eruin, that we imported templates that shouldn't be translated because they're not going to be used
<eruin> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/breezy/+lang/nb  -- take gaim as an example
<kiko> the import process gets some imports wrong
<eruin> oh
<kiko> it decides that it's a new template instead of an existing one
<eruin> then how are we supposed to get the particular app translated?
<kiko> we need to fix bugs faster, eruin 
<eruin> in launchpad?
<kiko> yeah :-(
<eruin> hehe
<kiko> let me load that page AAR
<kiko> eruin, order by package name
<kiko> you'll notice that there are N glib entries, but only one of the templates is /not/ called xx-deprecated*
<eruin> ah
<kiko> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/breezy/+sources/glib2.0/+pots/glib20/nb/+translate
<kiko> that's the one you should translate
<kiko> I apologize for the error, of course
<kiko> it's just that importing these templates is non-trivial
<eruin> yeah, I've been wondering how you manage it in the first place
<kiko> the importer gets itself mixed up and thinks it found a new template for glib2.0, where in fact it's just a new version of the existing template
<kiko> there's an importer process that pulls the template and translations from newly uploaded packages
<kiko> it needs to be smart enough to locate existing templates
<kiko> some packages have interesting directory organization and we don't cope with it very well
<kiko> I believe this is the case with glib2.0
<eruin> pah, what's launchpad/rosetta coded in?
<kiko> eruin, python and zope3
<kiko> a pretty cool piece of infrastructure if you ask me
<eruin> I guess I should step up and teach myself python properly
<eruin> it's just not that easily combined with a bachelor in arts ;-)
<kiko> well, python is one of those languages that I believe anyone should learn, no matter what profession
<kiko> the future is going to be all about programming-by-end-users I think
<eruin> yeah, I've started diving into it, but my "programming" experience is limited to php
<eruin> so it's an adjustment proper :p
<kiko> dive into python!
<eruin> that's a nice fun guide indeed
<ddaa> Duh... looking at one's people +assignedbugs page is _slow_
<ddaa> bradb: is that worked on?
<ddaa> (slow as in several tens of seconds, slow as in "I think I'm going to do something else while this page loads")
<kiko> ddaa, yes, it's a known issue being worked upon
<ddaa> oh... also
<ddaa> the "fix request for" columns contains important links (to change the bug status) _these_ should be underlined
<ddaa> I'm sure that's all known, but I take some revenge for all the baz pestering here :)
<kiko> ddaa, heh
<eruin> "stat failed"
<eruin> could anyone tell me what that really means?
<kiko> couldn't find a file, usually
<eruin> I'm translating synaptic and it has some very obscure strings like that
<kiko> it's referring to the stat() system call
<kiko> synaptic is crack
<eruin> hehe
<eruin> we should spank it's authors
<kiko> I'd file upstream bugs to get the damned messages fixed
<eruin> I'll make a list, actually
<ddaa> That particular error message probably violates half a dozen UI design rules :)
<eruin> yeah
<kiko> The  stat()  function  shall obtain information about the named file and write it to the area pointed to by the buf argument. The path argument points to a
<kiko>        pathname naming a file.  Read, write, or execute permission of the named file is not required. An implementation that provides additional or alternate file
<kiko>        access  control mechanisms may, under implementation-defined conditions, cause stat() to fail. In particular, the system may deny the existence of the file
<kiko>        specified by path.
<kiko> craaaack
<ddaa> IOW, may mean anything from "file does not exist" to "hard drive dead", through "you do not have permission to check whether this file exists" and "this software is buggy" :)
<eruin> should be handled more gracefully than spitting that at the user
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: [trivial]  fix broken link in bug link porlet. (patch-2487: bjorn.tillenius@canonical.com)
<ddaa> I think you can safely replace it by something like "an internal error ocurred but the programmer did not make me intelligent enough to know what to do about it or to tell you how to fix it".
<ddaa> :->
<kiko> I support ddaa's comments as usual, for the record
<eruin> what's the "Global translation wiki"?
<kiko> heh
<kiko> more craaaaack
<eruin> where do I find it and how can I spank people with silly entries in it?
<kiko> the global translation wiki isn't really a wiki
<kiko> I'd buy you ice cream if you filed a bug on the name being stupid and confusing
<eruin> then how is it seperated from "Published elsewhere" ?
<ddaa> kiko: please don't tell me it's not really global and not really about tranlation...
<kiko> okay
<kiko> ddaa, what does global mean?
<kiko> I wouldn't say it's global either
<kiko> eruin, I'll explain
<eruin> yay
<kiko> if you're not an official translator for a language
<kiko> your suggestions don't become official when you enter them
<kiko> instead they are stored but flagged as unofficial
<kiko> this repository of unofficial translations is the GTW [sic, or what?] 
<kiko> ask for the published elsewhere
<kiko> s/ask/as/
<kiko> we translate in rosetta both upstream products and distribution packages
<kiko> so if you add a translation to a product
<kiko> it isn't automatically used in the distribution
<eruin> so, me being in the rosetta norwegian nb team makes me what?
<kiko> but it's displayed there for you to be able to copy it in
<eruin> a semi-official translator? ;P
<kiko> eruin, you're in the ubuntu translators team for norwegian I suspect
<eruin> correct
<kiko> which makes you 100% bona fide official
<eruin> yay
<ddaa> kiko: I think, as a action link, it would be better as "Contribute to translation", within a sentence it would be better as "repository of unofficial translations".
<kiko> ddaa, TOTALLY
<eruin> I can't even find my way back to the team page on rosetta
<kiko> now convince the sab
<eruin> but I know I'm listed ;p
<kiko> eruin, you need to go back to the distribution's page (use the breadcrumbs)
<kiko> more craack
<eruin> hehe
<eruin> well, I dont blame you
<kiko> someday I will be able to fix this
<eruin> say I have suggestions for launchpad
<kiko> meanwhile I support end-users on saturdays :)
<kiko> eruin, file bugs
<eruin> like adding a way to register your nick in the profile
<eruin> okies
<ddaa> kiko: I'm really not in contact with Rosetta in any way. And I think I'd rather keep my credit of "disagree with the boss" for the branch work (that should get into landing shape before UBZ if all goes well).
<kiko> ddaa, you know those credits are precious!
<ddaa> kiko: btw, feel like a quick review?
<eruin> uck, non-us is a touch nut to translate
<eruin> tough*
<kiko> ddaa, your reviews is usually complicated -- what's it about?
<ddaa> simple process handling thing, almost trivial
<ddaa> Should help pqm hangs.
<kiko> I can try, pastebin it
<ddaa> kiko: I take your previous comment as a compliment :)
<ddaa> kiko: where's the pastebin?
<eruin> more string loveliness: "Failed to reopen fd" ;-)
<ddaa> *laugh*
<ddaa> let's lock mvo and mpt in a room at UBZ
<kiko> heh 
<ddaa> and not them out before one of them passes out or synaptic has useful error handling
<kiko> ddaa, it was a compliment. it's kinnison's, hmmm
<kiko> why even mark these strings for translation, sigh
<ddaa> kiko++
<eruin> translating them takes the mess to a whole new level
<ddaa> tranlating this stuff is nuts, people who could make sense of them are likely to understand it better in english than in any other language.
<eruin> I might as well input "jghskj bla bla bal lalalal fd la-la-land" ;)
<ddaa> I'd rather say "Error blarg yargl yoyo"
<eruin> ah, yes, that's better
<kiko> eruin, I urge you to file bugs on synaptic
<kiko> should I use caps to urge you harder?
<ddaa> kiko: https://chinstrap.ubuntu.com/~dsilvers/paste/fileIvXay1.html
<eruin> my list of lunatic strings is growing kiko
<eruin> atleast I finally understand why nobody has bothered translating synaptic 
<kiko> eruin, you'll have a great bug to file
<eruin> aye
* kiko points eruin to https://launchpad.net/products/synaptic/+bugs
<kiko> in particular to https://launchpad.net/products/synaptic/+filebug :-P
<eruin> suddenly I'm more tempted to figure out why my ipod nano doesn't want to mount and related issues
<eruin> but I'll go through with this 
<eruin> then I'll hop into ubuntu-devel and write up a short "translating isn't fun anymore"
<ddaa> Laziness, impatience, hubris
<ddaa> if you had those, by this time you have given up, or decided to fork synaptic :)
<kiko> eruin, yeah, tell them that their strings are making you want to revoke your life certificate
<eruin> hmm,
<eruin> that's a fittingname for the bug
* ddaa makes tippitap sounds on the table while looking intently at kiko
<eruin> or maybe I should follow the trend from synaptic and make the entire bug completely incomprehensible
<eruin> just to make a point
<ddaa> "Sypnatci msgs not language"
<eruin> I'm not particulary a fan of exposing things like "mount", "stat" in any gui
<ddaa> eruin: it's not about being fan, it's bad UI design to blow such stuff in the face of the user.
<eruin> maybe I should use some kind of terminology from the matrix
<kiko> eruin, you're in the 5 percentile that actually understands how applications should work
<eruin> about synaptic requiring a global rm -rf
<ddaa> (it just happens to be much, much easier)
<eruin> the gui should be designed first
<kiko> +                if self._process.poll() is not None:
<kiko> +                    break
<kiko> ddaa, can you explain this part to me?
<ddaa> how much detail do you require?
<kiko> tell me about poll()
<kiko> semantics
<ddaa> roughly, _process is a knotted.process.Popen, that reproduces part of the APi of subprocess.Popen
<ddaa> subprocess.Popen.poll(), polls the process for termination and returns process.returncode.
<kiko> ah
<kiko> so it returns non-None when the process terminates?
<ddaa> Yup.
<kiko> and it's non-blocking?
<ddaa> Yup.
<ddaa> Not timeout feature though.
<ddaa> thus the ugly loop.
<ddaa> maybe that would deserve a comment...
<eruin> "mounting" should be something more like "Readying x for use"
<ddaa> OTOH, you have wait(), which is blocking, and has no timeout either...
<eruin> or actually, not exposed at all.
<kiko> won't using wait() cause hangs in certain situations?
* eruin shuts up and fills his text file
<ddaa> eruin: I think you should stick closely to the error message. Because it depends on what the rest of the message is.
<eruin> the message "mounting CD" shouldn't be there at all
<ddaa> If it's "Preparing Ubuntu Breezy Badge CD for use", then' it's okay. If it's "Preparing /media/cdrom for use" I think it's just obscure to everybody.
<eruin> preparing CD for use
<eruin> in a gnome gui, /media/cdrom shouldn't be exposed if that isn't explicitly required - and it shouldn't be
<ddaa> eruin: what I mean is that the program might be passing that through a format string.
<ddaa> and that is outside of your control as a translator.
<eruin> yeah, I see your point
<ddaa> One of this "a good UI is not an afterthough" things.
<ddaa> kiko.poll()
<kiko> <kiko> won't using wait() cause hangs in certain situations?
<kiko> ddaa.wakeup()
<ddaa> oh sorry
<ddaa> Well, this patch only uses wait() after SIGKILL
<kiko> right
<ddaa> because apparently CVS is to crackful to reliably quit after SIGTERM...
<kiko> you could get a hard-to-kill zombie, right?
<ddaa> hu...
<sivang> hey all
<ddaa> kiko: what do you have in mind?
<sivang> anybody knows what that wonderful page (https://wiki.launchpad.canonical.com/LaunchpadArchitectureOverview) no longer available?
<sivang> (IIRC it was a very nice overview for the highly interested)
<ddaa> I do not see what more I could do after closing the pipe to the server, sending it a SIGTERM, waiting for a while, and sending it a SIGKILL...
<ddaa> AIUI it's a kernel bug if wait() hands after SIGKILL
<ddaa> * hangs
<kiko> ddaa, well, there are known situations (an NFS disconnect for instance) in which SIGKILL doesn't kill the process in predictable time
<kiko> anyway
<kiko> r=kiko 
<ddaa> kiko: if elmo starts using NFS on the import machines, I'll happily rewrite importd in Haskell :)
<ddaa> after calling the medics
<kiko> heh
<ddaa> actually, it's "on chinstrap" that it matters (pqm system)
<kiko> yeah
<ddaa> kiko: no change required?
<kiko> ddaa, no -- you already have a wait() there anyway; this just makes it more robust
<ddaa> btw, not waiting (or polling until it returns non-None) is what causes zombies.
<kiko> parent dies and doesn't reap its children
<ddaa> tbh, I find process handling to be deep magic
<ddaa> Thanks.
<kiko> sure, enjoy
<eruin> posted a short message about synaptic on ubuntu-devel
<eruin> hope someone can contribute something as I don't feel my mail accurately described all the issues
<kiko> eruin, did you file a bug?
<kiko> if you'd like to, CC: me
<eruin> haven't filed a bug yet
<eruin> waiting for some replies to the mailing list first
<eruin> I'm having trouble wording myself properly atm
<kiko> eruin, just file the bug saying "a number of synaptic's error messages are unhelpful" and pasting in examples in the comment
<kiko> say you're coming from a translator's angle but it's plain broken even in english
<kiko> that's what I'd do
<eruin> https://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/2549
<eruin> crap, I missed the part about "I'll leave that for my upcoming bug report" in the copy/paste ;-)
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/cscvs--devel--1.0: [r=kiko]  sigkill cvs server after 30s if sigterm was not enough (patch-111: david.allouche@canonical.com)
<eruin> kiko, cc'd
<kiko> eruin, thanks. for the record, you don't need to be so emotional when filing a bug -- the author would probably just say "yeah, it sucks, sorry" if you had voiced it more neutrally -- he may be a bit put off now
<kiko> I'll talk to mvo
<kiko> (IRC is a medium that takes better to jesting than bug reports)
<eruin> hmm, too late to edit it I presume
<kiko> yeah, but don't worry
<kiko> I'll talk to mvo when he shows up
<kiko> he's such a nice guy btw
<eruin> tell him no offense ;-)
<eruin> I really wish I could search in translation templates
<kiko> for a specific string?
<kiko> we're going to support that
<eruin> specific strings yeah
<kiko> yeah, upcoming feature
<eruin> I really want to get all apps ready, things like "Mark all upgrades" in synaptic, but not mess with strings mentioned in the bug ;-)
<ddaa> Mh, I had user feedback about "Mark all upgrades" being crack since it's a global operation that is not restricted by the current listing.
<jordi> I suspect something is wrong with the rosetta import queue
<jordi> nothing that I upload gets updated in the website.
<eruin> worse, I get a system error every time I try to submit a page full of translated strings
<kiko> jordi, it's disabled :)
<eruin> I suspect it has something to do with either the amount of text or the amount of strings marked for review
<jordi> kiko: DISABLED?!
<jordi> kiko: man, I've got Nkour coming in every 2 hours to tell me about it!
<jordi> kiko: any reason, eta for restart?
<kiko> jordi, can you email SteveA CC: launchpad so he fixes it ASAP?
<kiko> I'm with him on the phone
<jordi> k
<jordi> is he steve@?
<kiko> yeah
<jordi> kiko: done
<sabdfl> what's news in the lunchpad?
<eros> o.o
<ddaa> sabdfl: samba import passed autotest and is currently running on hoover
<jordi> sabdfl: I have a question for you in the mailing list
<jordi> sabdfl: how did your vacation go?
<ddaa> python import from a cvsball still running on roomba since monday. At 22873/32448 revs, bottlenecked on baz commit slowness.
<ddaa> also, quake3 now has a baz branch :)
<jordi> ddaa: who's taken over? quakeforge?
<ddaa> mh? icculus.org maintains a portable quake3 branch based on id software released code.
<jordi> hmm icculus.org
<ddaa> it still depends on the commercial CD for game data
<ddaa> it's just a portable game engine
<ddaa> they are not even trying to further the development. Just make the thing work.
<jordi> yeah, yeah.
<jordi> I was involved in the QuakeForge fork of quake1
<jordi> They did extend the stuff quite a bit, keeping it compatible
<jordi> they revamped the source to make it all a collection of quake plugins
<jordi> it was neat.
<sabdfl> ddaa: rockin' result on samba - well done
<sabdfl> is python up and running too?
<sabdfl> ah, i see from scrollback
<sabdfl> jordi: holiday was awesome, still technically away but my fingers were itchin
<sabdfl> Kinnison: so how did the week go, in the end?
<jordi> sabdfl: in rosetta-users, someone asks about translating freeware, as in beer
<jordi> I told the guy you'd comment on that.
<sabdfl> jordi: np, if it has potemplates and pofiles
<jordi> sabdfl: are you going to reply, or should I?
<sabdfl> jordi: go for it
<jordi> k
<mdke> hiya all
<mdke> how do I edit the wiki page of a team?
<mdke> actually the wiki page thing is going a bit wierd now
<mdke> i can't edit my own either
* mdke files a bug
<sabdf1> mdke: assign to me, please
<mdke> k
<mdke> i can't assign to him
<mdke> stupid malone
<mdke> is sabdfl the guy to cc on LP->wiki bugs then? I have another one
#launchpad 2005-09-30
<jdub> when creating a new project -> is the description ever shown without the summary?
<jdub> i don't want to repeat stuff in the description, because it looks silly on the overview page
<jdub> but there is so much info to fill in
<zyga> hello
<MrLaminar> hey everyone
<MrLaminar> i want to start translating gaim-1.4.0 in hoary to greek. can anyone tell me how to import the .po file from the mostly-complete hoary release?
<MrLaminar> oops... i meant to say i want to translate the breezy release
<mdke> MrLaminar, translation is done in the rosetta online system, you can go to http://launchpad.net/rosetta and start translating the package you wish to translate!
<MrLaminar> thanks, i know
<MrLaminar> my question is the following:
<MrLaminar> gaim in hoary has been partly translated to modern greek. in rosetta there was no template for gaim-1.4.0 in breezy
<mdke> right
<MrLaminar> so, i exported the po file from the hoary release and uploaded it to the breezy release, so that the existing string translations will be overtaken
<MrLaminar> is that right, or did i just mess up the template? :-/
<mdke> you can't have messed it up i don't think
<mdke> but the greek template appears to be empty
<MrLaminar> for the breezy release, it's empty
<mdke> yes
<MrLaminar> however, some strings were translated in the previous release
<mdke> MrLaminar, they will appear as suggestions in the breezy template i think
<MrLaminar> ahhh ok! thanks!
<mdke> or they should...
<MrLaminar> another question: how are these .po's rolled back to the original projects?
<MrLaminar> and how are contributors credited? i can't code much, but i can contribute by translating
<mdke> i don't think that they are, you have to do it manually
<mdke> but i'm not sure
<MrLaminar> what about the contributor credits?
<mdke> no idea
<mdke> many templates have a translator-credits voice
<mdke> this isn't handled properly by rosetta yet
<mdke> but eventually it will be
<MrLaminar> ok
<MrLaminar> thx
<zyga> mdke: maybe you know this: let's say a domain 'foo' has a msgid of 'bar', that msgid has three suggestions 'le bar' 'du bar' and 'la bar'
<zyga> mdke: let's say I upload a po file that translates 'bar' as 'le bar'
<zyga> mdke: which becomes the effective translation?
<eruin> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/breezy/+sources/gdm/+pots/gdm/nb/+translate
<eruin> can anyone view that?
<eruin> I get alot of errors like that with the nb locale ;/
<mdke> zyga, don't know sorry
<zorglub> what does that mean when bazaar import says "test failed" ?
<rejden> hello, have one questions ;) done translations are here https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/breezy/+lang/ and if you enter any language you see all the translated documents and who translated them, but the person who did it isn't listable (like his email adress and such) i was wandering if there is any list of "clickable" people for current language
<Keybuk> in Python, if I have a hex number, how do I make that an int?
<zyga> Keybuk: you have a string right?
<zyga> Keybuk: how about int("0xFF", 16)
<Keybuk> ahhh, of course
<Keybuk> forgot about the second argument
#launchpad 2005-10-01
<_jason> hi I signed up for launchpad to get cd's from shipit but I'm not really sure what launchpad is... anyone wan't to give me a short description?
<lifeless> jamesh: ping
<newpers> are there any launchpad developers in here from the phoenix area?
<lifeless> I don't think so
<lifeless> you want to meet up with one ?
<newpers> kind of
<lifeless> ...
<newpers> i need a zope3 developer
<stub> Your closes Launchpad Z3 developer would be in Montreal, followed by Sao Paolo
<stub> lifeless: Can you please mirror rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--production--1.34 across
<lifeless> stub: they are not that few ;0
<stub> Launchpad Z3 developer, not Z3 developer
<lifeless> done
<lifeless> stub: he just wants z3 ;0
<newpers> yeah, but i'd at least know i was getting a guy with experience if he was launchpad z3
<newpers> :)
<bob2> I somewhat doubt an LP developer would have time to take on a second job
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/dists--devel--0: [trivial]  production-1.34 config (patch-117: stuart.bishop@canonical.com)
<newpers> true
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--production--1.34: Cherry pick steve.alexander@canonical.com/launchpad--CherrypickNoKarmaForRosettaImports--0--patch-1 into production 1.34 (patch-1: steve.alexander@canonical.com)
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--production--1.34: Merge production 1.34 up to patch-2480 (patch-2: james.henstridge@canonical.com, rocketfuel@canonical.com, christian.reis@canonical.com ...)
<lifeless> jamesh: ping
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--production--1.34: Cherry pick patch-2486 into production 1.34 (patch-3: stuart.bishop@canonical.com, rocketfuel@canonical.com)
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--production--1.34: Cherry pick patch-2487 into production 1.34 (patch-4: bjorn.tillenius@canonical.com, rocketfuel@canonical.com)
<sivang> hey all
<SteveA> good morning
<SteveA> spiv: ping?
<SteveA> stub: morning
<SteveA> jamesh: hi.  any progress on the warning spew from subprocesses?
<stub> Morning
<SteveA> stub: what's the news on request timeouts?
<stub> No news (is good news)
<SteveA> so, the timeout is currently waaaaay to high compared to where we want it to ideally be
<SteveA> the rosetta cron scripts are fit to run, and should be running
<SteveA> but kiko called me at the weekend to check if they're actually enabled in the crontab
<SteveA> i have a mail waiting from jordi about that
<stub> They are enabled (I responded to that email)
<SteveA> you're doing some remedial work on the statistician, right?
<SteveA> okay, great
<stub> statistician changes are with pqm
<SteveA> nice
<SteveA> so, that will be back with the next roll-out
<stub> Yes - I'll be cherry picking it as soon as I get a patch number
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: [r=spiv]  Make update-stats.py play nicer with the other kids (patch-2488: stuart.bishop@canonical.com)
<stub> There we go
<SteveA> BjornT, jamesh or spiv: i've got a menus review that needs someone's help.  i want it to hit PQM soon, so that i don't have to deal with huge amounts of conflicts.
<SteveA> stub: read your reply to jordi.  does the bug still need fixing?
<stub> Yes. The gajim import won't run until it is fixed. It is currently spamming us every 10 minutes.
<stub> Carlos or kiko won't have had a chance to look at it yet
<BjornT> SteveA: i can do it, send me the diff
<SteveA> thanks BjornT 
<SteveA> stub: i'll look at it.  it looks trivial.
<stub> SteveA: Do you happen to know what this unhelpful exception means? https://chinstrap.ubuntu.com/~dsilvers/paste/fileaiazws.html
<BjornT> stub: i think i had a similar error before, the reason was that iface was security proxied.
<SteveA> so, is 'isOrExtends' missing from the security on an interface?
<stub> There is no security on the interface
<BjornT> do interfaces even have security declarations?
<stub> This is just me trying to register an adapter:
<stub>     <adapter
<stub>         for="canonical.launchpad.webapp.LaunchpadBrowserRequest"
<stub>         provides="canonical.launchpad.webapp.interfaces.INotificationResponse"
<stub>         factory="canonical.launchpad.webapp.adaptRequestToResponse"
<stub>         />
<SteveA> sure there's a security declaration for interfaces
<SteveA> stub: the factory
<SteveA> what is it?
<stub> hmm... working now. might have just failed to save an editor window or something
<stub> nope.... but I've worked out the issue
<SteveA> yeah, isOrExtends is allowed for interfaces
<stub> LaunchpadBrowserRequest did not implement any interfaces.
<stub> If I create a marker interface, and make LaunchpadBrowserRequest implement it, it works just fine.
<stub> z3 bug
<SteveA> stub: it looks like there's something claiming to be an interface implements declaration on a class, but it isn't really one
<SteveA> stub: can you file a malone bug on me about this, so i can look into it?
<stub> Possibly because LaunchpadBrowserRequest is a subclass of (BrowserRequest, NotificationRequest)
<stub> I'll stick some XXX's in indicating how to trigger the bug in this branch, and file a bug.
<SteveA> ta
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--production--1.34: Cherry pick patch-2482 into production 1.34 (patch-5: brad.bollenbach@canonical.com, rocketfuel@canonical.com)
* SteveA prepares a fresh diff for bjorn
<SteveA> BjornT: mailed you a diff
<BjornT> cool
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--production--1.34: Cherry pick patch-2488 into production 1.34 (patch-6: stuart.bishop@canonical.com, rocketfuel@canonical.com)
<stub> Bah. Our page tests don't support sessions :-(
* stub needs to manually extract and send the cookies
<SteveA> yeah
<SteveA> what do you want to test with sessions?
<stub> SteveA: browser notifications, where the messages are stored server side in the session
<stub> Got it working
<BjornT> SteveA: review sent
<SteveA> thanks
<SteveA> reply sent
* Kinnison catches up with enough to say good morning
<SteveA> hello daniel
<Kinnison> hi steve
<carlos> morning
<sabdfl> your favourite silver.supporter is BACK
<SteveA> good morning
<SteveA> although, today you're mark@wbs-146-137-182.telkomadsl.co.z
<SteveA> a
<sabdfl> SteveA: hmm.. no bling no longer. ah well, was fun while it lasted
<sivang> hey sabdfl !
* BjornT -> lunch
<sivang> Hey Kinnison 
<sabdfl> hiya sivang
<sabdfl> Kinnison: so, how was TheTestWeek?
<Kinnison> sabdfl: Well, my laptop is running breezy as installed from http://dogfood.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/
<sabdfl> nice
<sabdfl> well done!
<Kinnison> sabdfl: We have uncovered some issues with depfailure in the builder. cprov is working on 'em
<sabdfl> ok, cool
<Kinnison> sabdfl: and I got gina down from a large number of failed imports to nearly zero
<sabdfl> that's to be expected
<sabdfl> well done again
<Kinnison> I know how to get that to almost exactly zero in fact
* Kinnison just has to get rid of the version checking in the DB and add a protective wrapper in the dominator
<sivang> Kinnison: whee cool, so the amazing new infrastrucutre for pkg building through launchpad work :)
<Kinnison> yep
<Kinnison> https://dogfood.ubuntu.com/+builds/dogfood
<sivang> ouch, EFORBIDDEN
<Kinnison> oh yeah, you need an SSL cert for that
<Kinnison> sorry
<Kinnison> http://users.pepperfish.net/dsilvers/foody.png
<bob2> pimp
<Kinnison> pardon?
<sivang> Kinnison: so every spect of building a source/derivation repo is controlled from thoise consoles? impressive
<Kinnison> Well, it will be :-)
* sivang is astonished
<Kinnison> sabdfl: https://chinstrap.ubuntu.com/~dsilvers/paste/fileAA19tL.html
<Kinnison> sabdfl: those are the current gina failures
* Kinnison has a plan for each of the three failure modes
<Kinnison> just gotta implement
* Kinnison writes a script as that's the third time in a week he forgot --no-cacherev when branching launchpad
<SteveA> does that make branching less heavyweight?
<Kinnison> well it stops the base-0 being cached
<Kinnison> which saves a 17 meg push across my adsl
<Kinnison> and since baz is supposedly caching every 50 revs on rocketfuel I figure it's fairly safe
<Kinnison> also it makes the branch operation itself finish in about a twentieth the time
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: r=BjornT, more actions portlets converted to menus, introduction of LaunchpadView. (patch-2489: steve.alexander@canonical.com)
<SteveA> carlos: did you see the mail from stu about why the rosetta back-end scripts aren't running right now?
<SteveA> there's a bug in them that stops them running, so probably a test missing there?
<carlos> no, I didn't 
<carlos> it sounds like that
* carlos goes for it...
<carlos> SteveA, oh
<carlos> it's not that the scripts are not running 
<carlos> it's just that some real data is breaking our parser
<carlos> SteveA, we have some of them. Kiko filed bugs about that, not sure if that concrete problem is filed. Anyway, fixing those bugs is my current tasks
<SteveA> from the error stu showed, the code should be using .startswith() rather than [0] 
<carlos> SteveA, that parser should be killed, anyway I will fix it that way. thanks
<carlos> When I say 'killing it' I don't say forget it, just that it sucks.
* Kinnison keeps getting check failures due to baz
<Kinnison> is this a known thing?
<SteveA> Kinnison: what kind of errors?
<Kinnison> SteveA: argv: 'archive-mirror', '/home/dsilvers/dev-canonical/launchpad/launchpad-gina-remove-version/,,temp-archive1', '/home/dsilvers/dev-canonical/launchpad/launchpad-gina-remove-version/,,temp-archive2', 'foo-bar--HEAD--0--patch-1'
<Kinnison> * error report
<Kinnison> could not connect to archive '/home/dsilvers/dev-canonical/launchpad/launchpad-gina-remove-version'
<Kinnison> that sort
<SteveA> no, i have never seen such an error
<SteveA> ddaa: ?
<Kinnison> Anyone mind if I stop dogfood to upgrade it?
<Kinnison> I'll take that as "no" and go ahead
<ddaa> Kinnison: bug in COTM breaking pybaz
<ddaa> use baz 1.4.2
<Kinnison> Oh
<ddaa> Yes it sucks.
<Kinnison> Yes, it does
<Kinnison> fix it
<Kinnison> damnit
<Kinnison> :-)
* ddaa thinks he's the one person to have found the most bugs in arch and baz
<ddaa> I grew tired of isolating and filing bugs for baz regressions, but apparently lifeless won't fix them before making a x.0 unless I do.
<Kinnison> I guess we're concentrating hard on bzr
<ddaa> I guess so. This sort of things staying unfxed (and baz 1.5.0 not seeming any closer to a release than it was several weeks ago) is probably an unpleasant side effect of the pie-in-the-face bzr sprint.
* SteveA --> lunch
<ddaa> But that's little pain I'm willing to endure if that means we'll be using bzr for rocketfuel in one month.
<Kinnison> Aye
<Kinnison> apparently weave is pretty much done now
<ddaa> The fundamentals are done, my uninformed guesstimate is there's ~ one week of work to get support propagated thorough the code base.
<Kinnison> right
* carlos -> lunch
<carlos> ddaa, thanks for helping with my branch, I will try your instructions after lunch and will try to do the things better.
<ddaa> carlos: it assumes you have not made further commits since you reported the problem
<carlos> ddaa, no commits done, don't worry
<ddaa> hey spiv
<ddaa> how would you feel about some cscvs reviews today? ;)
<Kinnison> Do we automatically run the doctests in canonical.launchpad.validators ?
<Kinnison> if so, how can I ask the test suite to run just those?
<BjornT> Kinnison: python test.py canonical.launchpad.validators
<Kinnison> BjornT: ta
<Kinnison> okay that tells me that the doctest isn't run
* Kinnison updates it anyway
<BjornT> it should be run, i think. which doctest is it?
<Kinnison> the one for valid_debian_version in launchpad/validators/version.py
<BjornT> it is being run for me
<Kinnison> with that commandline you said?
<BjornT> yeah
<Kinnison> 'cos I just added a must-fail test I.E. I changed a True to 'Cheese' and it didn't fail
<Kinnison> in version.pyu
<Kinnison> s/u$//
* Kinnison lunches, brb
<BjornT> sure you didn't forget to save the file? :) i also change a True to False, and it failed
<mpt> maybe cheese is true
<Kinnison> maybe it is
* Kinnison tries again
<Kinnison> nope, it's as though it's not running the docstring at all
* Kinnison prods gently at his mind
<Kinnison> clearly I'm too hungry to work
<Kinnison> TTOTD: When changing tests, run the test runner ON THE SAME COMPUTER
<Kinnison> sorry bjorn
* Kinnison lunches for real this time
<Kinnison> bbl
<kiko> yay for mondays
<mpt> BjornT: Am I right in thinking that product-bugs.pt isn't used any more?
<kiko> mpt, wasn't that replaced by bugs-for-context?
<mpt> it looks like it, yes
<mpt> same for distribution-bugs.pt
<mpt> and distrorelease-bugs.pt
<BjornT> mpt: yes you're right
<mpt> but distrosourcepackage-bugs.pt is still used
<mpt> cower before the power of baz rm!
<BjornT> yeah, sourcepackage-bugs.pt is also used
<kiko> these are new pages
<mpt> and packages-bugs.pt
<BjornT> kiko: do you want to take a look at the branch lifeless reviewed for me?
<kiko> BjornT, hmmm how big is it?
<BjornT> 750 lines
<kiko> sure
<BjornT> kiko: thanks. and if you feel like reviewing some more, a have a patch for fixing email wrapping problems up for review, only 400 lines (mostly doctests).
<kiko> sure
<kiko> I can do both, this morning
<BjornT> cool, that'd be great
<mpt> SteveA: ping
<kiko> ddaa, do you know if it's safe to nuke anything under ~/.arch-cache/ ?
<ddaa> kiko: it's entirely safe
<ddaa> though it might hurt your performance, it caches the ancestry information that it takes so long to retrieve when doing some merges.
<kiko> ddaa, will it be regenerated automatically? 
<ddaa> yup
<kiko> ours are like 800mb
<ddaa> just go ahead and remove if you want. It will hurt nowhere as much as removing the revlib.
<kiko> okay, cool
<kiko> ddaa, and revlib directories with names starting with ,,?
<ddaa> that's entirely safe and desirable to delete _unless_ there's a baz running on the system (in which case that might be a perfectly legitimate and useful temporary directory)
<ddaa> Typically those are left around when operations like get, merge or switch are interrupted.
<kiko> yeah
<SteveA> mpt: hi
<BjornT> SteveA: when you converted the action portlets to menus, you removed "Report a Bug" from distribution and distrorelease bug listings
<SteveA> BjornT: I guess that means there's no test that someone can report a bug using a menu ;-)
<SteveA> i've been putting the old portlets and new menus on the same page, to check the look/work the same 
<SteveA> but, i guess i made a mistake there
<BjornT> yeah, it'd be nice with a test framework that allowed you to say "click the Report a Bug link" ;) (or maybe we should start checking that some page contains the url that is being page tested)
<SteveA> i'll be looking at zope3.1 shortly
<SteveA> got a few launchpad infrastructure things to finish first
<SteveA> and zope3.1 has that kind of thing available.
<BjornT> yeah i know, haven't tested it yet, though, but it seems to be quite nice.
<mpt> SteveA: I just worked out how to get the context+application menus to appear (a) in the right place and (b) only once in non-three-column layouts
<SteveA> mpt: so, the way i was going to do this is by using a slot for other RHS boxes for 2-col layouts.
<SteveA> what's your way?
<stub> SteveA: stuart.bishop@canonical.com/launchpad--zope31--0 , sqlos--zope31--0 and zope--test--3.1  was where I got to with looking at zope3.1
<SteveA> cool
<stub> (that zope branch is rc2 I believe)
<mpt> SteveA: <metal:nomenu fill-slot="column_two"></metal:nomenu>
<mpt> and <tal:menu replace="structure CONTEXTS/@@+menubox" />
<SteveA> ok
<mpt> so I can now register DistributionBugsMenu...
<SteveA> you can register it anyway
<mpt> (which I'd created, but not registered because it was in the wrong place)
<SteveA> we mustn't let UI polish get in the way of these things
<SteveA> do you have any unmirrored changes on your menus branch?
<mpt> ... and hey presto, BjornT, the distribution bugs page has "Report a Bug" again :-)
<bradb> jordi: hi. can you please reject the "upstream ubuntu" tasks on bug #2382 and #2384?
<bradb> "Ubuntu is a desktop Linux that you can give your girlfriend to install." -- ??
<bradb> Is every distribution meant to have a corresponding upstream product then?
<ddaa> ripping off of viril attributes
<mpt> My girlfriend keeps whining to me about problems with Ubuntu
<mpt> Yesterday she was complaining that there's no simple way of upgrading from 5.04 to 5.10 without using a CD
<Nafallo> mpt: mine did to, so I fixed them for her :-).
<ddaa> mpt: your girlfriend is too geeky, no girfriend in his own right would try to upgrade her OS :)
<ddaa> * in her own right
<mpt> ddaa: Yeah, she's going to stick to Gentoo for the time being
<Nafallo> baah, just teach her sed :-P. I did ;-).
<bradb> My gf got pretty annoyed the other night at trying to do her homework on my Powerbook keyboard AND OOo AND in English. This had bad consequences for me.
<bradb> (If you know what I mean.)
<ddaa> "Not tonight honey, I have tendinitis"?
<bradb> heh
<sivang> ddaa: lol
<bradb> stub: The BNM stuff looks cool. Any ETA on when we might be able to start using it?
<stub> bradb: As soon as it gets through review. mpt might want to redo my css that that is trivial and doesn't block people using the API
<bradb> cool. looking forward to it.
<SteveA> mpt: other than the main template change, is there any other menus work from you i need to merge?
<kiko> brb, rebooting
<mpt> SteveA: I've just made a bunch of tweaks to to distribution, product, and source package menus
<mpt> and fixed some strangeness in the Rosetta legend
<mpt> https://staging.ubuntu.com/distros/ubuntu/hoary/+sources/pmount/+translations
<mpt> "Summary of what the branch does Newly translated in Rosetta"
<mpt> SteveA: Why did you use "THIS FILE IS DEAD." rather than baz rm?
<SteveA> two reasons
<SteveA> 1. to better catch conflicts
<SteveA> 2. so that all the files can be removed at once in a separate sweep
<SteveA> mpt: i don't want our work to conflict.  i shall do the rest of the actions menus now.
<mpt> SteveA: My next problem is, how to get menus appearing for (for example) people-index and not person-index
<SteveA> mpt: write a description in the wiki page so i can see what you see, and understand why
<mpt> is that just a matter of saying they're for IFooSet rather than IFoo?
<SteveA> probably yes
<SteveA> but stop
<SteveA> i have already done these, on my branch
<mpt> In the past three hours?
<SteveA> YES
<mpt> ok :-)
<SteveA> i have been saying this
<SteveA> we need to co-ordinate
<SteveA> i'll do the rest of the actions menus, right now
<mpt> ok, shall I work backwards from z then?
<mpt> ok
<SteveA> no, i'll do the rest
<SteveA> i want you to check i haven't made any more mistakes
<SteveA> PQM merged a bunch of them this morning
<SteveA> (that is, menus, not mistakes, hopefully)
<jordi> bradb: hmm, can I really do that?
<SteveA> and let me know about any odd problems you find that need solving.
<SteveA> like, things aren't displaying properly, or whatever
<SteveA> mpt: is there stuff i should merge into my branch?
<mpt> SteveA: My distribution menus changes are committing now
<mpt> +product+sourcepackage
<SteveA> ok
<mpt> and deletion of no-longer-used templates (that do not include actions portlets)
<SteveA> ok
<SteveA> that's good
<SteveA> hmm, i should be able to make the test suite detect unused templates
<Kinnison> SteveA: it's easy if you mandate that the FS the tests are run on is not mounted -o noatime
<Kinnison> or does zope load them all anyway?
<SteveA> well
<bradb> jordi: yes, you should be able to (did you try?)
<SteveA> there are templates that are on the FS but aren't referenced in page templates or zcml
<SteveA> that's a category of template that would be found like that
<SteveA> then, there's pages that aren't actually used as part of the test suite
<SteveA> that's another set of pages
<kiko> carlos, ping?
<Kinnison> right
<jordi> bradb: yes, but I don't find an obvious link
<bradb> jordi: yeah, we know :/
<bradb> jordi: you have to click on the (completely non-obvious) "upstream ubuntu" link in the task listing on the bug page
<SteveA> Kinnison: and the pages that aren't tested are actually worse than the "decoys"
<SteveA> because those are a liability
<bradb> jordi: eventually, i'll hopefully be able to put back my "Edit Assignee/Status Details" link into the actions portlet
<SteveA> mpt: have you looked at the maintenance message UI ?
<jordi> bradb: ok, so inside here, what do I do?
<bradb> jordi: are you logged in?
<mpt> SteveA: mirror finished
<SteveA> thanks
<jordi> bradb: if you can also give me more info about why the change is necessary, etc, better for the next time
<jordi> bradb: yup
<bradb> jordi: ok, does it look like an edit form?
<mpt> SteveA: I'm not sure what you mean by "maintenance message UI", so, probably not
<mpt> SteveA: do you mean offline.html?
<jordi> yes
<bradb> jordi: ok, so, just change the "Status" value in the dropdown to "Rejected", and save changes
<jordi> and I see a few links that take me to the same page I'm seeing now: "Edit Task Status" and "also reported in:"
<SteveA> pagetests/standalone/xx-maintenance-message.txt
<jordi> oh
<SteveA> mpt: see that pagetest
<jordi> I thought I had to get rid of the "upstream ubuntu property" or something.
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: [trivial]  Fix for bug 2527: Trac ticket URL wrong. May contain traces of nuts. Contains gluten. No lint. (patch-2490: christian.reis@canonical.com)
<jordi> bradb: any comment for rejection?
<bradb> jordi: comment unnecessary, probably
<bradb> jordi: the reason for rejecting it is that people should never be filing bugs against the ubuntu upstream product, only against the ubuntu distribution
<jordi> nod
<jordi> done for both
<bradb> thanks
<mpt> Why is there an Ubuntu upstream product?
<bradb> dunno, but I sincerely hope it's unnecessary
<bradb> nobody answered my question from earlier though: is it necessary for every distro to have a product registered for it?
<bradb> more specifically, would anybody object to the Ubuntu upstream product being removed? silence, consent, etc.
<bradb> kiko: would you object to us removing the Ubuntu upstream product?
<sabdfl> mpt: that's an aberration
<sabdfl> bradb: i had thought to rename it to something else, just never got around to it
<sabdfl> there should not be an ubuntu upstream project
<sabdfl> product, that is
<bradb> ok
<sivang> who entered the text describing the UBZ on the sprint tracker?
<mpt> oy
<kiko> me? I'm not opposed to anything that involves "removing"
<mpt> kiko: First we need to move the bugs, no?
<stub> I've just set active=false on the ubuntu product
<cprov> SteveA: ping 
<SteveA> cprov: hello
<SteveA> cprov: i've just added canonical urls for various CoC things.
<SteveA> (with tests)
<mpt> gneuman/matsubara: I just tried to request bug 1 to be fixed in the Ubuntu distribution (no source package specified), and got a system error
<cprov> SteveA:  do you have time for a quick review in buildd stuff (100 lines, most comments) ?
<bradb> stub: I didn't that too, but it doesn't help much.
<SteveA> cprov: i'm reviewing some stuff for Kinnison right now
<cprov> SteveA:  thank you I'have a look later today, if it's not too late for you 
<SteveA> i can review your stuff too, i guess
<cprov> SteveA: you rock ! https://chinstrap.ubuntu.com/~dsilvers/paste/fileMj2wOa.html
<bradb> s/didn't that/did that/
<cprov> SteveA: I'm going to lunch now, back in 45 min 
<SteveA> k
<mpt> bah, I can't move any of the Ubuntu product bugs
<bradb> mpt: indeed. reassignment across upstream/distribution is just begging for screwups. this is an unusual situation, i think.
<kiko> mpt, bradb, maybe stub can do it though magic? :-)
<stub> maybe tomorrow
<mpt> I don't mean reassignment, I mean rejecting the old request and making a new one
<bradb> mpt: ah.
<mpt> bradb, you still can't reassign even from one product to another, can you?
<bradb> kiko: i'm wondering, should we make upstream tasks wiki-mode as well?
<bradb> mpt: no, that's a bug that has some workflow issues along with it.
<kiko> bradb, I don't see why not -- have we gotten any bug defacement?
<SteveA> Kinnison: review in the mail
<bradb> kiko: not that I've seen or heard reported
<kiko> right
<mpt> bradb: I already commented in the bug to say that no, it didn't have some workflow issues along with it
<mpt> unless there's something I'm missing
<mpt> it's just an extra field in the form
<kiko> I tend to agree with mpt
<ddaa> kiko: feel up to a quick review (or to point me to somebody who has the time for that)?
<bradb> under the new URL scheme, the workflow issues may no longer really be present
<bradb> mpt: what bug are you talking about? https://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/2030 is the only one i find when searching Malone bugs for "reassign"
* SteveA workraves to let baz do its stuff
<bradb> mpt: I don't think a simple field in the form will work for various reasons: 1. it doesn't really clearly communicate "hey, edit this field to reassign the product to a different place". an LP developer might think that would be obvious, but it seems to be less obvious to users. 2. at least previously, we had no notion of a "null bug task", which would mean that changing that product field jumps you into an entirely different conte
<mpt> entirely different conte... ?
<kiko> bradb, to be honest, I think we should worry about that if it becomes a problem
<bradb> kiko: it did. when we used to allow reassignment, people asked how to reassign the bug to a different upstream.
<bradb> mpt: yeah, if you reported a bug on /products/foo, the URL was /products/foo/+bugs/1/+edit. if you change the product field to "bar", you have to redirect to /products/bar/+bugs/1/+edit, because /products/foo/+bugs/1/+edit would no longer work.
<mpt> bradb: Even if it's not perfectly obvious, 3 clicks + 2 page loads is vastly better than 5 clicks + 4 page loads.
<bradb> at least, that was the context in which #2030 was reported. like i say, under the new scheme, we have the notion of a null bugtask, and can better deal with that problem
<mpt> I don't see what the problem with redirection is
<mpt> but then, I don't know what a null bugtask is either :-)
<bradb> we can always try it again and see what happens again. i'm not too bothered either way, tbh.
<bradb> so, wiki-mode and allow the product field to be changed?
<mpt> bradb: oh, by "null bugtask" do you mean you go through the Back menu to get to the task that no longer exists at that context, and get the message "Bug X is not recorded as needing a fix in Y"?
<bradb> mpt: yeah. null bugtask, e.g. being able to present a page for a task, even if that task doesn't exist yet.
<bradb> s/e.g./i.e./
<ddaa> SteveA: when you are back, are you willing to review a quasi-trivial patch? https://chinstrap.ubuntu.com/~dsilvers/paste/filemaD45h.html
<ddaa> (removal of inspect dependency from Launchpad test suite)
<mpt> bradb: You are returning a 404 header on such a page, right?
<SteveA> for the case outlined here, i think redirection is more appropriate
<SteveA> ddaa: i'll look when i'm next waiting for baz to process.  should be within the next 30 mins.  is that okay?
<mpt> oh, sure, when you move a task, you should end up in the next context
<ddaa> SteveA: that's okay
* ddaa goes for a snack
<mpt> but if you (for example) use the Back button, you get the null task with the 404 header
<bradb> mpt: 404 at what URL?
<mpt> bradb: E.g. /distros/redhat/+bugs/1
<mpt> because it's an Ubuntu bug, not a Red Hat one
<bradb> it's +bug, but why would it be a 404?
<mpt> because that task doesn't exist in that context
<bradb> it's a valid page to display. that's the page with the "This bug has not yet been reported in Redhat, etc."
<SteveA> i think such a page should set the status to 404
<mpt> Sure it's a valid page to display, but it's still representing something that doesn't exist yet
<SteveA> you don't want that page in your browser "locations" history
<SteveA> we must work with HTTP
<SteveA> not against it
<SteveA> it needn't be a NotFound error to set the response status to 404
<mpt> There are a whole bunch of cases where we should be doing special-case 404s, null bugtasks are just one of them
* bradb reads that part of the HTTP spec before saying much more
<SteveA> not really necessary
<mpt> e.g. https://launchpad.net/products/fqwhgads should show me a list of products with names similar to fqwhgads, and also give me the chance to register the fqwhgads product
<SteveA> although, no harm in reading it
<SteveA> mpt: fqwhgads?  isn't that the bad guy from Shrek ?
<mpt> bradb: https://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/1073
<mpt> SteveA: No, fqwhgads is a mythical character from the Strong Bad E-mails
<mpt> the Shrek guy was F*ck-wad
<mpt> though I think it was spelled differently
<mpt> because he was modelled after some Disney executive who the Shrek creator detested
<mpt> bradb: https://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/1073
<mpt> SteveA: Just mirrored fixes to the distrorelease menus: you can now report a bug on a distrorelease, and also see its spec roadmap
<mpt> (among other things)
<SteveA> okay, i'll merge it into my work next time i commit
<bradb> mpt: yeah, i see that :)
<SteveA> bradb: want to try this?  http://gintas.pov.lt/darcs/z3reload/README.txt
<mpt> bradb: Sorry for pasting twice, I got an itchy trigger finger
<bradb> SteveA: yeah, i saw that package before. wondered if it was worth the effort though.
<bradb> it seems like it requires a fairly careful understanding of the nature of Python reloads, and of the structure of one's view classes. so much so, that my brain is happier to say "mm, just restart zope already."
<SteveA> bradb: i think one member of the lp team should do a bit of reconnaisance and see if it helps for launchpad
<SteveA> we could set it up for just view classes, for example
<SteveA> maybe spiv can take a look...
<bradb> i can take a look and see if it helps, day-to-day
<SteveA> bradb: actually, reading it, i think i'd need to do some work on it to make it work with launchpad
<SteveA> it makes various assumptions that aren't really true
<bradb> ah, ok
<SteveA> like, it uses the DatabaseOpenedEvent to tell that zcml has been loaded
<bradb> right
<SteveA> which isn't how it works in launchpad, and just a coincidence about how it works in zope3 most of the time
<SteveA> still, i reckon i can use parts of it
<salgado> kiko, why do you marked 2553 as a dupe of 2369?
<kiko> salgado, because it's a dupe, I saw the traceback
<salgado> kiko, but that's not about a traceback. the user is complaining he can't see a link to where he can edit the team's wikiname. and in fact, there isn't one for teams
<kiko> I think I mixed something up
<mdke> heh
<kiko> sorry
<mdke> np at all
<mdke> i don't get this wikiname business
<kiko> it was 2551, of course
<mdke> what determines whether a user has one?
<mdke> why does my user not have one for example
<kiko> every user gets one for the ubuntu wiki
<kiko> except for users where salgado's code broke :-)
<mdke> ok so why the system error?
<mdke> ah
<mdke> and which users are they?
<kiko> some 20 users IIRC, right salgado 
<mdke> grr
<salgado> I guess something like that
<mdke> why does LP use this "wikiname" concept, instead of just a wiki page?
<j^> hi, did someone into using ajax(like http://www.google.com/webhp?complete=1&hl=en) for the source package name on this site: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+filebug
<j^> +look
<kiko> mdke, because of how moin integrates with launchpad, we need it
<mdke> kiko, how does it work?
<kiko> every launchpad account allows for log in to different services, mdke -- shipit, the ubuntu wiki, etc.
<mdke> you mean for authentication?
<kiko> right
<mdke> yeah ok
<kiko> the issue is that because LP accounts are email addresses, we need a way to give a user a wikiname so moin works
<kiko> that's roughly the issue
<j^> if i want to file a bug for a known source package, can i put the package name in the url?
<mdke> but wikinames were introduced into LP way after it was being used to authenticate the moin wiki, right?
<kiko> I'm not privvy to the protons of it, but that's the idea.
<kiko> mdke, it used to be a bit different, but they have always existed
<mdke> ah okay i see
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: Allow non-policy-compliant version numbers into the db and make sure our validators and dominator cope. r=stevea (patch-2491: daniel.silverstone@canonical.com)
<mdke> moin uses the wikiname to login of course
<kiko> j^, you can just file on the distribution and set the package name there
<mdke> i thought you'd hacked all the way around that ;)
<kiko> mdke, our hacked moin is a bit different
<kiko> yeah, we did
<kiko> it still needs the wikiname to function properly IIRC
<j^> kiko no i want to but a link to it on another page
<j^> <file bug> which should go to a form that does not ask for the package again
<mdke> kiko, ok, thanks for taking the time to explain that!
<bob2> j^: https://launchpad.net/products/bazaar/+filebug
<kiko> mdke, think nothing of it, enjoy
<j^> bob2 that way distribution is not set to ubuntu
<kiko> j^, bob2: that's upstream. he's talking about a source package
<bob2> ah
<kiko> j^, I think I understand your use case now. bradb, BjornT: there's no way to create a link to report a bug on a specific SP, is there? craaack
<bradb> SteveA, mpt: does that mean that all the names hanging off a null bugtask (+addwatch, +addurl, +addattachment, etc.) should also return 404?
<kiko> null bugtask?
<kiko> aieee
<kiko> does anyone know how to slack in gtimelog?
<SteveA> bradb: is there a use-case for the null bugtask other than when you change the product etc. ?
<SteveA> kiko: ** i slacked
<bradb> kiko: to report a bug on a sourcepackage, you just use the "Report a Bug" link from the sourcepackage's bug listing. the URL changes haven't been rolled out yet though.
<bradb> SteveA: yeah, there are tons of use cases for it. any time you want to view a bug report that hasn't yet been reported in your context.
<SteveA> bradb: we must seek an opinion from lifeless
<bradb> SteveA: so, when might you want to do this? 1. when you're searching to see if your bug has already been reported. 2. when you click on a bug that is a dup of this bug, and for whatever reason, it hasn't yet been reported in your context, etc.
<kiko> bradb, j^: if you can wait till tomorrow, you will have a stable one -- can you?
<j^> how would i list all ubuntu bugs for a given package?
<kiko> j^, /distros/ubuntu/hoary/+sources/firefox/+bugs
<bradb> j^: gotta wait until my monster URL changes patch gets rolled out
<bradb> yeah, that can be used too, but it's less than ideal
<j^> so https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/hoary/+sources/firefox/+filebug is also the url to file a bug
<bradb> yup. when the URL changes land, you can chop out the "hoary" part of that URL
<j^> ok
<j^> bradb will the version with "hoary" still work?
<bradb> yeah
<SteveA> mpt: can you look at shipit-portlet-actions.pt ?  it has special styling
<kiko-fud> SteveA, mpt: warning -- that is complete crack, and it's all because of ubuntu's CSS which also applies there
<kiko-fud> I would advise just to leave it untouched
<SteveA> can i rename it then?
<SteveA> as it isn't really an "actions portlet" in launchpad
<kiko-fud> sure
<SteveA> can you suggest a new name?
<kiko-fud> shipit-portlet-options? :-)
* kiko-fud really fud now or DOA
<bradb> hey, who snuck that "Edit Status" link back into the actions portlet, and why didn't you sneak in "Edit Assignee/Status Details" instead! :)
<bradb> SteveA: are you interested in drive-by'ing a small patch to return 404s for the view/edit status page of null bugtasks (instead of 500's, like it will currently)?
<bradb> i have the diff ready
<bradb> it's like 40 lines
<bradb> or BjornT?
<BjornT> bradb: sure, send it to me
<bradb> BjornT: sent
<ddaa> BjornT: I just used SteveA, I got another small patch (~10 lines) to get through quickly. Feeling up to it?
<BjornT> ddaa: sure
<ddaa> will tell you nopaste url once I have it :)
<ddaa> BjornT: https://chinstrap.ubuntu.com/~dsilvers/paste/fileyvlyjz.html
<BjornT> cool, i'll look at it soon
<ddaa> BjornT: please do not mention the pep8 violations in surrounding code, I have a really HUGE patch in the pipe for importd, so I want to keep incidental disruption to a minimum.
<BjornT> ok
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: [trivial]  Adding bug titles to dupe links (patch-2492: christian.reis@canonical.com)
<BjornT> bradb: reply sent
<SteveA> carlos: sent you a script
<carlos> SteveA, thank you
<carlos> I will resend it to pitti
<SteveA> i cced him
<carlos> ok, thanks!
<SteveA> try it, and let me know how it can be improved
<SteveA> or just hack it yourself
<SteveA> i didn't include the option to filter out additions
<SteveA> nor ignoring metadata
<BjornT> ddaa: r=bjornt
<spacey> is it possible to set the hackergotchi on your homepage?
<ddaa> spacey: naaaaaaah, this link does nothing yet and should have been removed already :)
<SteveA> spacey: it's being fixed
<SteveA> spacey: you'll be able to soon
<carlos> SteveA, ok
<spacey> SteveA, cool :)
<spacey> ofcourse i want to utilize every cool feature of launchpad ;)
<SteveA> carlos: i should have left some comments in the code or something
<carlos> SteveA, it does not look like a too complex script, don't worry
<SteveA> ok
<SteveA> i was surprised how quick it was
<SteveA> when grep took ages on the same file
<SteveA> carlos: some of the problem seems to be related to encodings
<SteveA>  msgid "Edit"
<SteveA> -msgstr "Dzelt"
<SteveA> +msgstr "Dzelt"
<SteveA> 
<SteveA> like that
<carlos> that's a fix
<carlos> the main problem is with removals more than changes
<SteveA> well, it is easy to exclude these from output of the script
<SteveA> 53322 lines
<SteveA> if you take out "changes" and "additions" leaving just "removals"
<carlos> ok
<SteveA> fewer still if you remove metadata too
<cprov> SteveA: do you have time for a quick meeting about test-suit supporting binary content, with me and matsubara ?
<jordi> carlos: any progress on the gajim thing?
<kiko> jordi, I checked in a fix for it, it can be cherry-picked if carlos/stub wants 
<jordi> nod
<jordi> my vote for that
<jordi> :)
<carlos> jordi, anyway, If you review the file you would fix anything that is unusual
<carlos> jordi, that's the faster way to fix it
<carlos> jordi, kiko thinks it's near the obsolete entries
<kiko> jordi, look for lines containing "#~" and nothing else
<carlos> jordi, if you could send me that file that would be helpful to improve our tests
<jordi> I'm searching for it.
<carlos> kiko, did you added a test?
<jordi> #~ msgid "_About"
<jordi> #~
<jordi> #~ msgstr "_About"
<jordi> that's it
<jordi> :q
<jordi> carlos: want a full file, or is that enough?
<kiko> <jordi> #~
<kiko> that's foobs
<kiko> I fixed it in our codebase, anyway
<kiko> but it's foobs
<jordi> yeah.
<jordi> apparently gettext doesn't care at all though
<carlos> jordi, welcome to real data world...
<jordi> heh
<bradb> mpt: was it you that readded the "Edit Status" link or kiko? :)
<kiko> not me!
<kiko> bradb, https://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/1443 is yours and fixed.
<mpt> bradb: Yes, I'd be tempted to say that +addwatch, +addurl and co. for a null bugtask should be returning NotFound even -- adding stuff to a fix request that doesn't exist makes no sense
<bradb> kiko: In-Reply-To ain't me. I only did Reply-To. BjornT perhaps this is yours to close?
<kiko> ah
<kiko> I missed the In-Reply
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: [r=carlos]  Fixing problem with gajim pofile import by working around lines that contain only #~, minor reformatting (patch-2493: christian.reis@canonical.com)
<bradb> mpt: hm, that doesn't feel right
<BjornT> bradb, kiko: thanks, closed.
<bradb> mpt: wouldn't it be more surprising if all those pages 404'd than if they Just Worked? afterall, they're all bug specific, not depedant on context.
<mpt> oh, true
<bradb> mpt: from the user perspective, even though this might be covering edge cases more than anything, it seems to me that having all the bug pages continue to work as normal would be more practical than having them suddenly 404.
<mpt> hmmmm
<mpt> possibly they should 404 *and* Just Work
<bradb> mpt: that was a question SteveA wanted to pose to lifeless 
<bradb> (i.e. specifically about what status code should be returned)
<mpt> bradb: I don't remember altering "Edit Status" at all, but menus stuff has been going from SteveA -> rocketfuel and from me -> SteveA -> rocketfuel, so it might have been a bad merge somewhere
<bradb> mpt: is that link meant to remain? given that sabdfl strongly disliked the "Edit Assignee/Status Details", i have to wonder. :) (even though i agree that it's an insult to the user not to have an "Edit Assignee/Status Details" link, but...)
<bradb> it matters to the extent that i'm thinking about what the link should do/look like when viewing a null bugtask.
<mpt> bradb: If Google finds a mailing list message (or a bug report) that points to +addwatch or whatever for a context to which the URL doesn't belong, something at that URL should say "don't index me"
<mpt> to which the bug doesn't belong, I mean
<jbailey> Hey, I notice that LP has https://launchpad.net/tickets now.  Should I be using that for Canonical Employees now?
<jbailey> err.
<mpt> bradb: Personally, I think all the "Edit *" links currently in Launchpad are crack, but we're some way off from fixing that
<jbailey> Canonical customers.
<bradb> mpt: yeah, i agree.
<bradb> it'd be nicer if they were in a place that people expect them to be, like near the thing they want to edit
<mpt> jbailey: You do tech support for Canonical?
<jbailey> mpt: Half-time, theoretically. =)
<bradb> mpt: i'm curious though, should an "Edit Status" link be disabled for a null bugtask?
<jbailey> Right now I've got all the support@ emails going into an RT system.
<jbailey> mpt: If you're interested in purchasing a support contract...
<bradb> mpt: and, if so, how do you disable it nicely?
<mpt> jbailey: You might find that it's somewhat (or much) less featureful than RT, but I guess it's probably intended that you be using it eventually
<mpt> try it out and see :-)
<carlos> kiko, I have a diff for you
<carlos> kiko, waiting for bazaar to give you a branch
<jbailey> mpt: Well, the basic things I'd need for it to be usable right now are that support requests from these users should be 1) Private. 2) Assigned to me automatically.
<jbailey> Aside from that, it's on par with how I use RT at the moment.
<kiko> ddaa, ping?
<kiko> carlos, rock
<kiko> this is a weird one
<mpt> jbailey: report those as bugs :-)
<jbailey> mpt: a'ight. =)
<jbailey> mpt: Against what product? =)
<mpt> launchpad
<mpt> There is malone, there is rosetta, and then there is ... launchpad
<kiko> there's also launchpad-cal I just discovered
<jbailey> 'kay, I wasn't sure if there would be one for 'tickets'
* jbailey tries to figure out where to file this anyway. =)
<bradb> I think I'll remove Edit Status for now
<carlos> kiko-afk, added to the pending review page
<carlos> kiko-afk, I will leave now to have dinner
<carlos> kiko-afk, will answer your questions when I'm back. The karma related changes is already reviewed by Steve and cherrypicked into production (lacks a small change that I will do before the final merge)
<carlos> see you later
* carlos -> dinner
<kiko-afk> rocks, thanks carlos 
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: [trivial]  Add karma column name to people listing, fixing issue stub pointed out. Redo the way the batching header is displayed, strangle me if wrong (patch-2494: christian.reis@canonical.com)
<mpt> ok, traceback time
<mpt> I just tried to open https://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/2106 and got a system error
<mpt> then I reloaded and it opened fine
<bradb> BjornT: I replied to your reply. In summary: I removed the "Edit Status" link entirely (because the sab hates it) and added INullBugTask. Can I merge the patch?
<mpt> bradb: so how do you edit a fix request now?
<bradb> mpt: it's very tricky.
<bradb> mpt: you have to know that clicking on "ubuntu mozilla-firefox" takes you to the edit assignee/status details screen
<bradb> in reality, a lot of people don't (nor should be expected to) know that
<mpt> Oh, I haven't seen this new URL scheme yet
<mpt> before, clicking on "ubuntu mozilla-firefox" would take you to a non-editable page
<mpt> now it takes you to an editable page?
<bradb> it takes you to edit if you have the perms to edit, otherwise the view page
* mpt waits for refuel
<bradb> but i'm going to make upstream tasks wiki-mode today
<mpt> oh, good
<mpt> like Bugzilla pre-2000?
<bradb> heh
* bradb pings BjornT
<jbailey> mpt: Okay, I have to ask.  Where do I find 'launchpad' for filing a bug?  It seems to be neither a product nor a distribution?
<mpt> jbailey: It's a product
<mpt> https://launchpad.net/products/launchpad
<mpt> How did you not find it?
<jbailey> mpt: I don't see it under https://launchpad.net/malone/products
<bradb> i was going to add a "Place in Which You've Recently Reported a Bug" section to the front page
<jbailey> When I go to Malone and click on "Locate Product and View Bugs"
<bradb> Places, that is
<bradb> the malone front page is just too much
<mpt> jbailey: Not meaning to be rude, but if you couldn't find it that's probably a bug
<salgado> SteveA, ping?
* mpt worded the question poorly
<jbailey> mpt: Oh, I don't take that as rude.
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: [r=stevea]  remove uses of pybaz OrderedTestLoader (patch-2495: david.allouche@canonical.com)
<mpt> launchpad is listed under https://launchpad.net/products/+all
<jbailey> mpt: If could even be a bug on me.  And you're welcome to file it as such. =)
<bradb> jbailey: no, it's our fault
<BjornT> bradb: yeah, you can merge.
<bradb> BjornT: thanks
<Kinnison> Is there a time_in_the_past formatter?
<jbailey> The link you gave me worked, should I file a bug as well saying that Launchpad doesn't show up in that product list?
<Kinnison> I.E. I have a field which is a datetime and I want it rendered as "forty minutes ago" or the like
<bradb> Kinnison: use fmt:approximateduration
<bradb> Kinnison: for an example of how i used it with IBugTask, check out BugTask.age
<Kinnison> page template?
<bradb> i've also suggested a fmt:age formatter, but nobody's wanted it enough yet to implement it
<jbailey> Oh, hmm..
<jbailey> It says "Most Recently Registered"
<jbailey> So it does look like the bug should be assigned to me: "RTFWebPage, Jeff"
<bradb> Kinnison: bugtask-macros-listview.pt:23:        tal:content="string:(${task/age/fmt:approximateduration} old)"
<Kinnison> righty, coolio
<Kinnison> thanks
<bradb> np
<bradb> Kinnison: btw, you seem like the right guy to ask about sourcepackagey things. do you know if we have an FTI to search all sp's by name? e.g. i want to search for "firefox" and get "ubuntu mozilla-firefox", "debian mozilla-firefox", etc.
<jbailey> mpt: Do you want my tickets wishlists to be filed individually, or in one big  page?
<Kinnison> bradb: We don't currently have FTIs on sourcepackagerelease or sourcepackagename
<Kinnison> If you want 'em, feel free to add 'em
<Kinnison> you just add entries to fti.py
<bradb> Kinnison: any idea how far off we are from being able to provide some search terms, and get a list of distro SPs back that make sense?
<Kinnison> you know how?
<Kinnison> We have binary package FTI, I know that much
<mpt> jbailey: One bug per bug report please
<bradb> hm, FTI'ing ISPR would get us about 40% of the way there
<Kinnison> Feel free to do it
<Kinnison> Nothing I use (currently) would be affected if you did
<Kinnison> Other than slowing inserts of SPRs slightly (imperceptibly)
<bradb> hm, not really what i'm looking for though :/ (40% == not enough to Actually Work, i don't think, because we would have to post-process the result list to transform it into a list of distro sp's, as best i can tell.)
<Kinnison> How do you mean?
<Kinnison> you might want to check how soyuz's sourcepackage search works
<bradb> last time i checked, it didn't
<bradb> it never returned any results, even for things that i thought existed, but i'm trying it again now
<bradb> Kinnison: basically, in an ideal world, when the user visits the malone front page, it would be nice to give them a box in which they can type some keywords to find the thing on which they want to report a bug. each row in the results returned would be either 1. an upstream or 2. a distro sourcepackage
<Kinnison> what is a "distro sourcepackage"
<bradb> Kinnison: an object that has at least two pieces of information: a distribution (e.g. an IDistribution) and a sourcepackagename (e.g. an ISourcePackageName)
<Kinnison> Right
<Kinnison> You've got one interesting option
<Kinnison> Add FTI on sourcepackagename
<Kinnison> create a view which joins distribution to sourcepackagename through distrorelease, sourcepackagepublishing and sourcepackagerelease
<Kinnison> include the FTI on the view
<Kinnison> use that view for getting what you want
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: [trivial]  builder page missed bits (patch-2496: celso.providelo@canonical.com)
<bradb> hm, that might work
<Kinnison> Soyuz is the heaviest user of views
<Kinnison> and it seriously improves performance
<bradb> mpt: What do you think about that? e.g. a Malone front page that has at least two ways of searching: 1. for bugs (including jumping directly to a bug report by id) and 2. searching for a thing on which to view or report bugs? (e.g. a text search box where you just type "firefox", click "Search", and it returns results like "Mozilla-Firefox (upstream)", "debian mozilla-firefox", "ubuntu mozilla-firefox", etc. then you click on one a
<bradb> the front page could also list things on which you've recently reported bugs (say, in the last month), which would be a list of upstreams and/or distro sps
<Kinnison> is there an easy way to run a specific pagetest?
<kiko> hey ddaa?
<Kinnison> lib/canonical/launchpad/pagetests/standalone/xx-builder-index.txt
<Kinnison> in particular
<kiko> Kinnison, yes. python test.py -f . pagetext
<kiko> so
<kiko> python test.py -f . xx-builder-index
<Kinnison> rocktastic
<Kinnison> thanks dude
<kiko> enjoy
* Kinnison is trying his hand (slowly) at bits of UI
* Kinnison is learning ZPT/TAL/TALES/METAL etc
<mpt> bradb: You seem to be describing MaloneFrontPages
<mpt> From /malone, the search form should both return products/packages/etc containing your terms, and bug reports containing your terms
<bradb> mpt: not really describing MFP, at least not by looking at the prototype screen, which says "Search all bug reports"
* mpt realizes he's been waiting an hour for baz merge
* Kinnison ponders some food before continuing with this UI tweak
<bradb> mpt: also, i don't see anything in the prototype screens for MFP that try to help the user tumble into the right place with the "Places in Which You've Recently Reported a Bug" type thing
<bradb> tumble, stumble, whatever
<bradb> bumble, etc
<Kinnison> kiko: btw, have you been watching https://dogfood.ubuntu.com/+builds/dogfood-builder-1 ?
<mpt> grumble
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: [r=BjornT]  make +{view,edit}status pages return 404 for null bugtasks. (patch-2497: brad.bollenbach@canonical.com)
<Kinnison> Anyone available for a v. quick review?
<Kinnison> kiko: ?
* Kinnison is just merging the change onto dogfood for added testing
<kiko> not me, sorry, need to run out for a bit
<Kinnison> okay
<Kinnison> thanks anyway
<ddaa> kiko: I'm back, but I'm going off for the night soon.
<kiko> ddaa, was going to ask you if you know what happened to the ProductSeries.needsSyncReview method?
<kiko> i.e.
<kiko> see bug 750
<ddaa> hu...
<ddaa> kiko-afk: I do not know what +syncreview is, I can guess it would have had something to do with reviewing nicole data, and would therefore be obsolete, but that's only a guess. 
<ddaa> since AIUI nicole was deemed unsufficiently reliable
<ddaa> kiko-afk: I think celso (he worked on nicole I think) would know
<kiko-afk> okay, thanks ddaa 
* Kinnison can smell garlic bread
<Kinnison> mmmm
<bradb> 16:55 < tseng> bradb: clicking "Ubuntu Tomboy" to edit the status of the big is still silly
<Nafallo> s/big/big\ bug/
<Nafallo> :-)
<mpt> bradb: Wake me up when I'm allowed to touch the bug page :-)
<bradb> heh
* Kinnison prods review team
<Kinnison> anyone awake
<Kinnison> ?
* Kinnison has another not-quite trivial
<bradb> BjornT: around? i have another simple patch that i'm hoping to get reviewed. wiki-mode upstream tasks.
<bradb> or salgado?
<Kinnison> BjornT, salgado: Any chance of an eye-over a not-quite-trivial UI fix?
<Kinnison> It's really simple
<salgado> Kinnison, sure. it's more than two weeks since my last code review. give it to me!
<Kinnison> salgado: https://chinstrap.ubuntu.com/~dsilvers/paste/fileLKANCa.html
<salgado> Kinnison, out of curiosity, why is there a lot of "zsh: exit 1     baz file-diff lib/canonical/launchpad/database/builder.py" inside the diff?
<Kinnison> because if I gave you the diff, it'd contain the base-0 changelog
<Kinnison> which sux
<Kinnison> so I did a bunch of file-diff commands
<Kinnison> and they exit non-zero when there are changes
<Kinnison> so zsh tells me they exited non-zero
* Kinnison goes to grab his pizza, brb
<salgado> I see
<bradb> salgado: Any chance of you taking a quick look at my small patch after Kinnison's?
<salgado> bradb, how many lines?
<bradb> salgado: 6 files changed, 22 insertions(+), 462 deletions(-)
<Kinnison> heyheyhey sabdude
<Kinnison> woah, go go gadget deletion
<bradb> salgado: it's simple: making upstream tasks "wiki-mode", so that any logged-in user can edit them. this means removing a bunch of code that was handling a more complex permission scheme.
<bradb> ("them", i.e. the public ones, of course)
<salgado> bradb, okay. send me the diff
* salgado goes grab an apple to eat while reading bradb's diff. there shouldn't be a lot to comment on code that's being removed, I hope
<bradb> salgado: sent!
<bradb> salgado: the biggest blob of removed code was a removed file, which is a test that no longer makes sense, because it was testing "team awareness" of editing an upstream bugtask. this is no longer applicable given that, if you're logged in, you can edit an upstream task.
<bradb> Kinnison: home-made pizza?
<Kinnison> bradb: well, oven-bake
<Kinnison> Kinni|Lazy today
<bradb> ah
* Kinnison cooked himself a curry for lunch though
<Kinnison> with loadsa shrooms
<moyogo> hi
<bradb> mmm, curry. england taught me curry.
<moyogo> what are number of plural forms and pluralform expression?
<sabdfl> night guys
<moyogo> night sabdfl 
<salgado> bradb, is there a spec for this 'making upstream tasks "wiki-mode"' somewhere?
<bradb> salgado: nope
<bradb> there's a BugTaskManagement spec that i could update though
<sabdfl> bradb: could you put bug/bugtask permissions on the agenda for ubz please?
<salgado> I guess this was discussed before?
<bradb> sabdfl: sure
<sabdfl> kiko-afk: any progress on registering LP specs in LP?
<bradb> salgado: yes. making it wiki-mode now for two reasons: 1. users keep getting annoyed that they can't edit tasks when they need to, 2. we haven't seen or heard of any vandalism distro-side (where it's already wiki-mode).
<sabdfl> mpt: nice bold-on-facet tabs
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: [r=bjornt]  perform an update for svn trees before syncing (patch-2498: david.allouche@canonical.com, robert.collins@canonical.com)
<sabdfl> bradb: good job, i see you've registered a bunch of malone specs
<bradb> yes, all the 1.0 specs (that i know of) are in there :)
<sabdfl> cool. is there a milestone?
<sabdfl> also, you can add a spec to the UBZ agenda now
<sabdfl> on the spec page, bottom of the actions portlet, "Add to Meeting Agenda"
<sabdfl> i've put BjornT's email-for-ticket-system spec in there
<sabdfl> when you register a spec, if it's for UBZ, add it to that agenda too
<sabdfl> so jamesh can start playing with his Schedul-O-Matic
<bradb> sabdfl: eh, right, re: the milestone, i was wondering if there was a way to target a bunch of specs at once to a milestone? if not, i'm more inclined to write that UI than spend the time driving the UI the distance required to do that "by hand" for all of them
* bradb looks
<sabdfl> bradb: please just do it the boring way for the moment
<sabdfl> multiple-selector-interfaces are not well defined in LP, i don't want any more added
<bradb> ok
<sabdfl> but i don't mind if you put a placeholder spec in the system for that :-)
<sabdfl> and assign it to UBZ
<sabdfl> with me as approver, mpt as drafter, and yourself as assignee if you want it
<bradb> right, i'll add that
<Kinnison> ciao all
<carlos> kiko-afk, hi, around?
<carlos> kiko-afk, I'm back from dinner and will be go to sleep really soon
<carlos> kiko-afk, will you have the review any time soon or should I wait until tomorrow?
<kiko> carlos, I can do it tonight, but it might be too late for you, right?
<carlos> kiko, yeah
#launchpad 2005-10-02
<kiko> so tomorrow morning
<carlos> I will wake up early tomorrow
<carlos> so that should work too
<carlos> kiko, thank you very much!
<carlos> good night!
<Seveas> does malone offer other output formats beside html?
<Seveas> or is such a feature planned?
<kiko> Seveas, mail?
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: Fix up duration of build job in progress, correct trivial bug in builder-index page template. r=salgado (patch-2499: daniel.silverstone@canonical.com)
<Seveas> no, xml :)
<Seveas> something like bugzillas xml would help
<Seveas> I'm porting the supybot bug reporting plugin to malone, but currently the plan is to have a massive regex to filter out the info
<Seveas> is such a thing available/planned/not considered yet/may be considered?
<bradb> somewhere between planned and not considered, i think :)
<Seveas> ok :)
<bradb> we'll do XML and RSS feeds like everybody else, i'm sure. not a priority atm though.
<Seveas> then i'll hope the output format of malone does not change too heavily too often 
<Seveas> thanks for the info bradb 
<ajmitch> bradb: xml-rpc interface will be for all functionality of malone, correct?
<bradb> Seveas: the emails might still change pretty significantly. well, so might the web UI.
<Seveas> k, then I/#ubuntu-desktop will have to live with the fact that the plugin will break once in a while :)
<bradb> ajmitch: too early to say, but my guess would be probably, more or less
<bradb> Seveas: yeah, sorry, it's possible that it could hurt. after ubuntu main has been on it for 6 months or a year, things will become more predictable. right now, there's just a whole lot of guessing about how people might use the UI, so it's hard to say what will be adjusted still.
<Seveas> bradb, that's ok, it was no complaint. It's great to see launchpad getting shape, now if only the hackergotchis would work :)
<bradb> Seveas: perms problem, you mean?
<Seveas> yeah
<Seveas> I can edit it for a team I created, but not my own
<Seveas> There are some other issues I collected, I'll file them in malone (if not there yet) tomoorow-ish
<bradb> Seveas: if you're interested in the hackergotchi problem, you might want to subscribe to bug #2501
<kiko> bradb, what are null bugtasks, again?
<kiko> bradb, matsubara has a fix, the test has just been a bit involved to run
<bradb> kiko: a bugtask for which no actual bugtask exists (so that you can, e.g., view a bug in a context in which it's not yet been reported.)
<kiko> bradb, a bug without a bugtask in the context being currently viewed. ah, ok.
<bradb> i.e. it's a null object implementation of IBugTask
<bradb> right
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: [r=salgado]  make upstream tasks be wiki-mode (patch-2500: brad.bollenbach@canonical.com)
<kiko> salgado, https://launchpad.net/errors/showEntry.html?id=1127776181.690.431611962761
* salgado quickly clicks on the link
<kiko> this was a person who followed a link from email
<salgado> this was a person who found the +login page on shipit
<kiko> no
<kiko> look at the referrer
<salgado> kiko, he found the +login page and then tried to register on there
<kiko> how did he get there from the referer?
<bradb> later dudes
<salgado> kiko, if you reach the +login page and try to register there, the email sent to you will have a link to https://shipit.ubuntu.com/token/<whatever>, because the application_url on that page is https://shipit.ubuntu.com
<salgado> (I mean, if you reach the +login page on https://shipit.ubuntu.com/)
<salgado> if you follow the link to launchpad.net/+login and register there, everything will be fine
<kiko> salgado, how did the guy find the +login link? it should be pretty easy, we're getting dozens of these in production.
<salgado> I have no idea, but this is why we overwrote all that error pages for shipit
<salgado> to make sure people won't get a link to the +login page if something goes wrong or they don't have permission
<kiko> there must be a straightforward way..
<kiko> salgado, just fyi -- even googlebot is finding it.
<salgado> dammit
<kiko> actually, false.
<salgado> we need to talk to SteveA and find a way to disable it in shipit
<kiko> <canonical.launchpad.systemhomes.ShipItApplication object at 0x2a9f142650>, name: u','
<kiko> NotFound: Object: <canonical.launchpad.systemhomes.ShipItApplication object at 0x2a9f142650>, name: u'robots.txt'
<kiko> interesting, eh? a single comma.
<salgado> heh
<kiko> salgado, here's an interesting one.
<kiko> salgado, if you are logged in but don't log out, logging in again doesn't fail.
<kiko> (even if you enter an invalid name and pass)
<salgado> kiko, how do I get the login page if I'm already logged in?
<kiko> salgado, use the back button?
<salgado> kiko, well, I guess that's because the form-processing code identifies you're already logged in and do not process the form
<kiko> ah, right, perhaps.
<kiko> does anyone know when staging last refreshed?
<salgado> no idea
<kiko> a staging that is a week old is pretty useless
<kiko> dammit
<kiko> jamesh, ping?
<lifeless> jbailey: ping
<jbailey> lifeless: pong
<lifeless> BAH
<lifeless> jamesh: ping
<lifeless> jbailey: unping
<lifeless> :/
<jbailey> lifeless: unpong
<lifeless> lol
<ajmitch> jbailey: you need to change your name, I think
<jbailey> ajmitch: True.  I hear "Andrew" is a good one.
<jbailey> Wouldn't that just make #chug confusing?
<ajmitch> not at all
<jbailey> Oh good.
<jbailey> I'm glad you've settled that. =)
<jamesh> kiko/lifeless: yeah?
* Kinnison updates dogfood
<kiko> jamesh, could you commit my patch attached to bug https://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/2540 -- ?
<jamesh> kiko: sure.
<kiko> thanks!
<jamesh> kiko: once we can dump hoary, we can use the system gettext
<jamesh> which should make these sort of problems a non-issue
<kiko> hmmm
<Kinnison> night all
* Kinnison beds
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: Make sure slave passes /dev/null as stdin to the subprocess. Rev launchpad-buildd to v7. r=spiv (patch-2501: daniel.silverstone@canonical.com)
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--production--1.34: Cherry pick patch-2493 into production 1.34 (patch-7: rocketfuel@canonical.com, christian.reis@canonical.com)
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: [trivial]  Improve script exception output and fix noisy log test (patch-2502: stuart.bishop@canonical.com)
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--production--1.34: Cherry pick patch-2502 into production 1.34 (patch-8: stuart.bishop@canonical.com, rocketfuel@canonical.com)
<jdub> jamesh: ping
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: [trivial]  Add indexes to the ShipIt tables (patch-2503: stuart.bishop@canonical.com)
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/pygettextpo--devel--0: [trivial]  disable csharp bindings in included gettext-tools package.  Fixes bug 2540 (patch-7: james.henstridge@canonical.com)
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--production--1.34: Cherry pick patch-2503 into production 1.34 (patch-9: stuart.bishop@canonical.com, rocketfuel@canonical.com)
* stub starts the weekly upgrade
<sabdfl> drumroll...
<stub> spiv: Can you poke the librarian to see if it survived the database outage?
<spiv> stub: Ok.
<spiv> stub: Seems ok.
<stub> Cool ;)
<stub> sabdfl: Have you seen the new bounty? https://launchpad.net/bounties/chquite
<ajmitch> getting a system error now trying to view assigned bugs
<ajmitch> url is https://launchpad.net/people/motu/+assignedbugs
<stub> ajmitch: ta. I can fix that
<ajmitch> thanks
<stub> ajmitch: fixed
<ajmitch> quick work :)
<Seveas> Hey, the 'tabs are a few pixels off' bug got fixed last night :)
<Seveas> nice
<ajmitch> other ui oddities seem to have been introduced :)
<ajmitch> malone uses a different from address for bug emails now? (submitters address)
<moyogo> hey where do i go to translate launchpad itself?
<sivang> moyogo: I think this is not yet available, but discussions are going to take place on that - stay tuned, this should come up sometime close. (anybody correct me if I'm wrong)
<moyogo> sivang: there's version 7 in multiverse but it's broken
<moyogo> sivang: i guess i'll have to use evince...
<sivang> moyogo: huh? version of launchpad ?
<jamesh> I don't think we've looked at setting up the i18n for Launchpad yet
<jamesh> some parts of the code have strings marked, and other parts don't
<sivang> jamesh: ah, so there's i18n data in multiverse for launchapd ?
<jamesh> sivang: not to my knowledge.
<sivang> jamesh: k, that's what I thought
<Treenaks> I'm getting mail ("Your mail to Launchpad-bugs awaits moderation") when filing bugs in malone
<ajmitch> Treenaks: yes, seems the from address for malone bugs has changed :)
<bob2> hah
<Treenaks> ajmitch: it also breaks people with SPF on their From: domains
<Treenaks> +for
<bob2> Treenaks: SPF doesn't have anything to do with From:
<Treenaks> bob2: MAIL FROM: then
<bob2> presumably LP uses it's own envelop-sender
<Treenaks> bob2: it changed, yes
<Treenaks> bob2: new behaviour breaks RFC 2821 section 3.10
<bob2> that is messed up
<Treenaks> bob2: already filed a bug
<stub> BjornT: ping
<BjornT> hi stub 
<stub> You broke the bugs mailing list ;)
<BjornT> nope, bradb did :)
<stub> Or should I say, the changes to bugmail (set reply-to: rather than munging from:) breaks mailman - I've had to open the list.
<stub> But I think this is mailman's problem rather than Malones
<stub> (because I now have no way of saying 'let through emails from malone but hold everything else)
<stub> I might send a use case to Barry
<carlos> morning
<BjornT> stub: can't mailman look at reply-to instead? or some other header?
<stub> BjornT: Nope ;) It would be a simple change through. But currently, it can't.
<stub> Or at least I can't find it
<carlos> SteveA, I need a fast review to cherrypick into production before Stub leaves today. It's related to language packs
<zyga> morning
<zyga> hello carlos :)
<carlos> zyga, morning
<jamesh> stub: in the mailman admin interface, go to "privacy options -> spam filters"
<stub> jamesh: I can't see how to use that though
<jamesh> stub: you should be able to configure mailman to accept messages that match an arbitrary header using header_filter_rules
<stub> jamesh: I need to say 'let through anything with this', but the spam filters say 'block anything with this'
<SteveA> morning
<SteveA> carlos: go for it
<stub> jamesh: oh! I see
<jamesh> stub: really? on the gnome installation, it has a box where you can enter a regexp, and a set of radio buttons (defer, hold, reject, discard, accept)
<carlos> SteveA, carlos.perello@canonical.com--2004/launchpad--devel--0
<stub> Yes - I didn't notice the radio buttons
<stub> jamesh: They are regexps?
<jamesh> stub: the text beside the textarea says "Spam Filter Regexp:"
<SteveA> carlos: was that the bug about missing translations?  that sometimes the date isn't updated?
<carlos> SteveA, right, translators update pofile outside Rosetta
<BjornT> stub: how do i create a new dbuser for process-mail.py to use?
<carlos> and the revision date is not updated
<carlos> so Rosetta ignores that 
<stub> BjornT: Add the relevant section to security.cfg, then somewhere in schema.xml to make it configurable
<SteveA> so rosetta ignores the new translations because rosetta depends (currently) on the revision date in the po file
<carlos> SteveA, right
<carlos> SteveA, I just relaxed it a bit and if the revision date is the same we have in our database we accept it 
<SteveA> i see
<SteveA> what happens if the revision date is a lot in the future?
<SteveA> does that stop new translations from occuring?
<carlos> we changed our db schema a couple of months ago so reimporting a pofile with the same data will not produce that we lose data 
<carlos> SteveA, yes
<BjornT> stub: ok, thanks
<SteveA> carlos: is that fixed in this patch i'm reviewing?
<carlos> SteveA, yeah, that's the point behind that patch
<SteveA> ok
<SteveA> baz is still working on it
<carlos> SteveA, it has also the karma change you cherrypicked last week
<SteveA> ok, great
<carlos> but it's missing the update you did
<carlos> I'm getting the production branch to apply that change too
<SteveA> i sure hope bzr comes along soon... baz is getting unbearably slow
<stub> BjornT: I'll turn off that deprecation warning on production
<BjornT> stub: cool. i'll fix it anyway since i already started
* carlos -> breakfast
<jamesh> SteveA: I think I've got the test suite warning issues sorted -- they weren't due to out-of-process tests
<SteveA> jamesh: really?  what was it?
<SteveA> is there a tree i can look at?
<jamesh> SteveA: haven't mirrored the changes yet
<SteveA> ok
<jamesh> SteveA: the logging module contains internal state (the configuration of the loggers), and some of the tests were reconfiguring the logger
<SteveA> ah
<jamesh> so running individual tests wouldn't cause the bug, but running them in sequence would
<jamesh> s/bug/output/
<SteveA> we could do with a way of registering subsystems to have their state checked and/or cleared between tests.
<SteveA> there is something like this for zope3 tests, but i think it is rather messy
<ddaa> Grrrr!
<SteveA> this could be done with a root-level event subscriber, very simply
<ddaa> lifeless: svn import is crap
<ddaa> samba (on hoover) and videolan-vlc (on roomba) repeatedly fail with out of memory :(
<ddaa> lifeless: need your help about how to diagnose fix the leak
<ddaa> Short of  a better idea, I'll try implementing some form of batched fetching (based on svn co) in the hope that it would reduce the problem, but without any proof beforehand that it would.
<jamesh> SteveA: for doctests, I wonder if it would be better to configure the logging subsystem to send messages to stdout
<jamesh> so that people would need to account for the messages in their tests
<SteveA> jamesh: yes, i think that would be good.
<stub> jamesh: I fixed some test noise from the librarianformatter tests - log messages were bubbling up to the root logger.
<jamesh> stub: I found the doctests in scripts/logger.py were one of the culprits -- they left the root logger configured with the LibrarianFormatter handler attached
<stub> jamesh: yes. I've landed a fix that just set 'propagate=False' on the custom logger
<stub> so that might conflict with your work
<jamesh> stub: nope.  I didn't find any problems with those tests (I did check if they were one of the culprits
<stub> jamesh: erm... yer. the doctests in scripts/logger.py are the ones I mean. The propagate=False fix means you don't have to mess with the root logger.
<stub> (at least the noise I fixed didn't)
<jamesh> stub: the tests in the docstrings for logger_options() and logger() were the ones that were messing with the root logger.
<jamesh> stub: my other fix was to configure the root logger again in FunctionalTestSetup.setUp()
<stub> ok
<stub> You configure it to raise an exception if used ;) ?
<stub> Probably too much code to fix if you did that...
<jamesh> no
<jamesh> it was already being configured to put all the log messages in a StringIO instance
<stub> oh... never knew that ;)
<jamesh> hmm
<jamesh> if you don't call close() on a logging handler, it never gets freed until you call logging.shutdown()
<SteveA> carlos: you have new mail (in fact, two new mails, seeing as i forgot to attach the review the first time)
* sivang wonders if there is already or is planned a todo list tracker for lanchapd. if not would be keen on suggesting that as a BOF
<sivang> *launchpad
<sabdfl> carlos: so, do we not bring Universe packages into Rosetta?
<SteveA> sivang: the spec tracker is a bit like that.
* sivang looks
<carlos> SteveA, ok, thanks
<SteveA> carlos: what's the answer to what mark asked above?
<ddaa> SteveA: maybe you can help, do you have any general strategy to help tracking memory leaks in python, that are likely to originate from an extension module?
<SteveA> ddaa: like, C code?
<ddaa> C++ actually, but yeah
<SteveA> here's what i do
<SteveA> 1. get a debug build of python
<SteveA> that's more than just symbols, it has extra code in to track memory usage / garbage / etc.
<SteveA> 2. build your extension against that python
<SteveA> 3. run the test suite using the options to run it in a loop, and output object counts after each cycle
<SteveA> 4. narrow down the set of tests you need to run in a cycle while still seeing certain objects increase in number
<SteveA> 5. write your own test to make it even more minimal
<SteveA> 6. scrutinize this minimal code path to check for problems in the extension code along that path
* ddaa points out that the extension code is essentially libsvn...
<ddaa> that sounds very cumbersome
<SteveA> 7. give up and ask jamesh to look at, because he's proved himself very good and finding such problems   ;-)
<SteveA> ddaa: it's fiddly, but it uses divide-and-conquor to get the job done
<Kinnison> hihi
<BjornT> is there a way to connect with a specific dbuser in a doctest?
<ddaa> so, I guess the first step is running the test suite in a loop and checking that memory usage grows, right?
<SteveA> ddaa: yes, or a subset of the test suite
<ddaa> yeah, of course
<Kinnison> spiv: Twisted does longest-prefix-first matching when resolving a request for a server which has an object attached to /foo/ and one attached to /, yes?
<SteveA> there are specific options to help with this in the zope test runner
<SteveA> look at launchpad's test.py perhaps
<ddaa> SteveA: well, cscvs is not zope stuff :)
<ddaa> but I think I get the idea
<spiv> Kinnison: you mean twisted.web?  No.
<spiv> It does it pretty much the same way as Zope: path segment by path segment.
<ddaa> SteveA: is there a python functionality to monitor memory usage process-wise (i.e. the leak might be in C++ structures that the gc is not aware of)?
<spiv> At least, with the default Resources it does.  You could implement all sorts of crazy stuff if you really wanted ;)
<Kinnison> spiv: so it does shortest-first?
<SteveA> ddaa: i don't know.  ask jamesh.
<spiv> Kinnison: The question doesn't really make sense.
<Kinnison> okay, allow me to give you context
<stub> BjornT: setup = LaunchpadTestSetup(); setup.dbuser = 'foo'; setup.setUp(); .......; setup.tearDown()
<ddaa> jamesh: is there a python functionality to monitor memory usage process-wise?
<Kinnison> the buildd slave has an XMLRPC interface on /
<SteveA> Kinnison: it treats it as a hierarchy, not as an opaque string
<Kinnison> I want to add a simple HTTP interface to the filecache on /filecache/
<spiv> Kinnison: For a path /a/b/c, it'll do root.getChild('a'), then do .getChild('b') on the result of that, and so on.
<stub> BjornT: That should also work with other subclasses, like LaunchpadZopelessTestSetup. LaunchpadFunctionalTestSetup will be problematic though.
<spiv> And whereever that stops, it calls render.
<stub> BjornT: Although if this is for process-email.py, you might want to use the subprocess module to invoke the actual script so that is tested too (see the test_update_stats.py for example)
<spiv> Kinnison: The short answer is: root.putChild('filecache', static.File('blah/blah/filecache'))
<Kinnison> root?
* Kinnison is not a very twisted person
<spiv> Kinnison: Whatever resource you're passing to server.Site
* Kinnison looks at buildd-slave.tac
<BjornT> stub: setup = LaunchpadTestSetup(); setup.dbuser = 'foo'; still makes the test pass
<spiv> Kinnison: Hmm, XML-RPC is a bit funny, because some clients will hit "http://foo/RPC2" when you tell them the server is at "http://foo/RPC2".
<spiv> Kinnison: Let me do a quick patch for you.
<stub> BjornT: Does your test do initZopeless itself? If so, you need to change that to initZopeless(dbuser=foo)
<BjornT> stub: using subprocess isn't an option here, since I need to look at the email notifications (i guess i could use subprocess for some tests, and call the function directly for some)
<BjornT> stub: it did use the normal setup. i change it to do what you suggested, but it seems like the dbuser is ignored
<stub> BjornT: How does your test get a connection? Or is it using LaunchpadZopelessTestSetup?
<Kinnison> spiv: what will your patch do?
<spiv> Kinnison: https://chinstrap.ubuntu.com/~dsilvers/paste/fileLVyrWj.html
<spiv> Er, I should have said, 'hit "http://foo/RPC2" when you tell them the server is at "http://foo/"'
<Kinnison> right
<Kinnison> static.File()
<Kinnison> that's a static file *root* yes?
<spiv> Kinnison: Right.
<Kinnison> coolio
<Kinnison> thanks dude
<spiv> (Or a single file.  It's happy either way)
<BjornT> stub: it's currently using LaunchpadTestSetup, since it needs to look at the email notifications. is there any way of using LaunchpadZopelessTestSetup and have the sent email end up in test_emails?
<Kinnison> spiv: was it you who told me to use SafeConfigParser instead of ConfigParser?
<BjornT> stub: (the test also needs to use the same security policy as the web app)
<spiv> Kinnison: Possibly.  I told someone to use it :)
<Kinnison> probably me :-)
* Kinnison will change buildd-slave.tac to use SafeConfigParser while he's in there
<stub> BjornT: Hmm... that is working by accident I think. If you need to use the Z3 email stuff, that would require using LaunchpadFunctionalTestSetup to load the component architecture. And there is no way to change the user connected as in that case.
<jamesh> ddaa: nothing really accurate (there was a google summer of code project to product a memory profiler, but I don't know the status)
<stub> (working by accident because the CA is never actually torn down, which causes problems :-( )
<spiv> jamesh, ddaa: You can apparently make valgrind work with Python.
<ddaa> jamesh: I just mean something to answer simple question like "How much VM does this python eat?"
<jamesh> ddaa: one trick you can use is the fact that instances of heap allocated classes (i.e. ones not defined in C extension modules) hold a reference to their class
<jamesh> ddaa: poke around in /proc/$pid/status?
<BjornT> stub: don't all system documentation tests use LaunchpadTestSetup by default?
<stub> BjornT: I don't think we have any suitable fixtures for what you need at the moment. 
<spiv> ddaa: In theory the resource module can do stuff like htat.
<ddaa> jamesh: I think that would do the trick. I'm interesting in monitoring all process memory usage including what the GC does not know about
<spiv> ddaa: I haven't usedit, though.
<stub> BjornT: They use LaunchpadTestSetup and FunctionalDocFileSuite combined, which pretty much duplicates LaunchpadFunctionalTestSetup.
<jamesh> ddaa: it'll be quite inaccurate though -- address space isn't returned to the system except for large allocations, so you'll be looking at the high water mark
<ddaa> jamesh: I just want to confirm that "running that code causes a memory leak, somehow, somewhere"
<jamesh> ddaa: okay.  it might be enough for that kind of thing.
<ddaa> THEN I can start talking gc and figure out what kind of leak that is
<spiv> ddaa: If you do want to interrogate the gc, http://twistedmatrix.com/users/spiv/countrefs.py may help.
<ddaa> spiv: thanks
<Kinnison> spiv: does static.File() provide content-length headers properly?
<spiv> Kinnison: Yes.
<ddaa> mh, no twisted crack in that, good
<Kinnison> spiv: cool, ta
<spiv> ddaa: Hah :)
<BjornT> stub: hmm, i'll look into if i change change my test, otherwise i'll wait with changing the dbuser of process-mail until you implement such a text fixture ;)
* stub reads scrollback to work out when he volunteered
<carlos> SteveA, the answer to mark's question is: Rosetta is importing universe translations but we don't have language packs for universe so the translations will not reach the archive unless the developer in charge of that package adds it by hand
<SteveA> are the MOTU aware of this?
<ajmitch> not that I'm aware of
<ajmitch> at least we didn't expect to have langpacks for universe
<Kinnison> what module has the routine for joining bits of urls together?
<SteveA> i mean, are the MOTU aware of how they can get translations out of rosetta for use in the packages?
<ajmitch> SteveA: unless it's written up somewhere, I doubt that we are
<carlos> SteveA, I think so, but not 100% sure
<carlos> we had some mails changed with pitti and sabdfl some weeks ago about this
<carlos> but nothing more
<Kinnison> aha, urlparse.urljoin, nm
<Kinnison> spiv: Given I have two file handles (well, one file, one urllib) what is the accepted way of pumping the contents of slave_file into out_file ?
<SteveA> ajmitch, carlos, jordi: i think you guys need to talk about using rosetta for Universe sometime
<carlos> ajmitch, We cannot use current language packs or they will grow a lot
<ajmitch> something to talk about at UBZ
<carlos> ajmitch, jordi I'm a bit busy atm....
<Kinnison> stevea: Given I have two file handles (well, one file, one urllib) what is the accepted way of pumping the contents of slave_file into out_file ?
* Kinnison asks steve too :-)
<carlos> ajmitch, if it can wait, then yes, better at UBZ
<ajmitch> carlos: of course, the universe translations need to be separate
<ajmitch> depends if we want to try & get them into breezy
<carlos> ajmitch, in the mean time, the only solution I see is to get all translations from Rosetta and add them as a patch to the package
<ajmitch> which will be a lot of work if there's many translations, I think
<ajmitch> we can try for some key universe apps
<ajmitch> is there a quick guide for getting the translations out for a package?
<ajmitch> s/out/out of rosetta/
<carlos> ajmitch, every sourcepackage has an export/download link that let's you get a tarball with all translations
<ajmitch> sounds easy enough for us then
<ajmitch> if the source packages are imported for universe & translated
<carlos> right
<Kinnison> spiv, SteveA: never mind, I've stolen the loop from the librarian uploader
<ajmitch> ddaa: how often are source imports processed for a product?
<ddaa> ajmitch: syncs are done every day, initial imports are done whenever I come around to it.
<ddaa> if a syncing branch appears out of date, I'm the right person to complain to. There are many failed syncs but I just do not have the resources to fix them.
<ddaa> If you want an import done in reliable way, ask me. I'll tell you if I hit a roadblock.
<ddaa> (or when it's done)
<ajmitch> ddaa: right, gnuenterprise is sitting on testing - initial import failed a couple of weeks ago & svn url has changed since then
<ddaa> I'll have a look right now.
<ajmitch> hm, svn might still be a little broken upstream
<ddaa> pleonasm
<ddaa> what do you mean, actually?
<ajmitch> gnu enterprise server shifted recently, I can't recall if anon svn is working correctly yet
<ajmitch> I'll ask you about it when I know it is :)
<ddaa> ajmitch: product description: I'm a bit puzzled
<ddaa> you say that it's a meta-project, but you say there is a RCS to import
<ddaa> that's contradictory
<ddaa> GNOME, Mozilla are meta-projects, they do not have  a single RCS to import, they have several products instead
<ajmitch> ok, the project has tools & a number of subprojects in the same svn
<ddaa> such meta-projects are "projects" in launchpad parlance, specific projects that actually release something are products
<Kinnison> elmo, lifeless: Any chance one of you can tickle pqm ?
<ddaa> gnue/trunk ?
* ddaa is confused
<ddaa> ajmitch: you mean that for release management, security fixes etc, gnue is a single product?
<ajmitch> there are a number of packages that get released with different versions
<ajmitch> so I'd say not then
<ddaa> so, how does the gnue/trunk relate to those packages?
<ajmitch> each of them are in a directory under there
<ddaa> ajmitch: are you a bit familiar with arch/bazaar?
<ajmitch> a bit
<ajmitch> I've mainly been using bzr
<ddaa> same difference
* ddaa rolls a cig
<ddaa> ajmitch: I hope I'm not annoying you by appearing nitpicky
<ajmitch> not at all
* ajmitch is picky enough with others :)
<ddaa> bah, their SVN instruction page is broken...
<ajmitch> everything was recently shifted in the last week
<ddaa> You can browse the subversion tree online.  -> 404 with a python traceback
<ddaa> ajmitch: I have the impression that either:
<ajmitch> this was the first new product I did, to learn how it goes
<ddaa> 1. the actually trees to import are gnue/trunk/<something>
<ddaa> or 2. the gnue release process is a bit broken
<ajmitch> importing separate trees & having separate products for each tool is better
<ddaa> I mean, either the svn repo hosts several essentially distinct projects, that are packaged independently, and should be imported separatedly, or it does not.
<ajmitch> they are separately released & packaged
<ddaa> a problem could be for example if the build system relies on stuff at the root, or whatever
* ajmitch is the debian packager for them
<ddaa> or if commits are frequently made that spans several projects
<ddaa> I'm just trying to grasp what is the model there, to find the best representation for it in launchpad.
<ddaa> okay... so let's make them different products
<ajmitch> gnue-common does have a script to setup wrapper scripts for all the tools, for running from an svn checkout
<ajmitch> that would be the only small complication
<ddaa> what are you using to build deb packages?
<ddaa> the full checkout or partial checkouts?
<ajmitch> using released tarballs at the moment
<ajmitch> they use distutils, so releases can be made separately
<ddaa> are the release tarballs are made essentially of partial checkouts?
<ddaa> The issue here is figuring out the right granularity for malone, rosetta, hct, etc. which all talk in term of source packages.
<ddaa> ajmitch: so, one project and multiple products?
<ajmitch> by using just the directory for the tool
<ajmitch> yes, I'd think so
<ddaa> ajmitch: BTW where is the SVN now, it looks like the web page is out date, so I cannot find it.
<ajmitch> http://svn.gnuenterprise.org/gnue/trunk is current
<ddaa> yeah, totally partial checkouts :)
* ddaa grumbles at "creative" uses of svn
<ajmitch> svn allows for plenty of creativity
<ddaa> ajmitch: I'll make you a gnuenterprise project, from the current product details, and assign the existing product to this project, then we can tweak the product to be a real product. You'll need my help to change its name to whatever you want it to be (e.g. gnue-appserver)
<ajmitch> alright, thanks
<eruin> how do I report this? https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/breezy/+sources/gdm/+pots/gdm/nb/+translate
<eruin> "this page and locale in particular constantly spits out system errors" ? :)
<SteveA> jamesh: ping?
<ddaa> ajmitch: here it is, https://launchpad.net/projects/gnuenterprise/
<ddaa> ajmitch: start replacing the details for https://launchpad.net/products/gnuenterprise and I'll take on after that
* ddaa goes for lunch
<segfault> is there any problem with LP?
<SteveA> working for me
<carlos> stub, hi, I have a patchset to cherrypick into production
<SteveA> are you seeing a problem?
<segfault> can you try to access the main url? https://launchpad.net
<carlos> stub, which branch is being used?
<segfault> System error here.
<eruin> I get system error on main
<segfault> not only me, then
<stub> carlos: launchpad--production--1.34. Just land it in launchpad--devel--0 and I'll pick it from there
<segfault> even this url doesn't work https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/breezy
<carlos> stub, ok
<zyga_> why did karma got re-set recently?
<zyga_> carlos: anyone?
<carlos> zyga_, because a bug I introduced, we added too much karma in some situations
<carlos> and we were not able to remove only the bad one
<carlos> so we choose to reset it now that it's fixed
<zyga_> carlos: awww
<zyga_> carlos: I lost all my translation karma and I'm a karma whore ;)
<carlos> zyga_, you know how to fix that.... do more translations!
<carlos> :-P
<carlos> zyga_, anyway, all people had that "problem"
<carlos> so you didn't lose any place in the karma ranking ;-)
<ajmitch> carlos: they did? I don't think I lost karma :)
<zyga_> carlos: yeah, I'll prepend space to everything, upload, remove the space, upload,..., *PROFIT*
<carlos> ajmitch, only Rosetta's karma was removed
<carlos> zyga_, you are sooo evil sometimes....
<carlos> :-)
<ajmitch> carlos: oh that's alright then :)
<zyga_> carlos: I should be a manager
<carlos> zyga_, :-P
<carlos> stub, merge request sent
<carlos> stub, it includes to the patch that you cherry picked on Friday for the karma fix, so perhaps you will get a conflict
<stub> carlos: it will conflict then. 
<carlos> stub, after that code is on production, we need to execute an UPDATE on production DB, will send you by email with the final patchset
<carlos> stub, it's exactly the same patch so the conflict should be easy to solve
<stub> ok. 
<segfault> can anyone please restart LP?
<segfault> :P
<SteveA> segfault: why?
<segfault> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/breezy
<segfault> gives a system error.
<SteveA> carlos: https://launchpad.net/errors/showEntry.html?id=1127820881.540.0383009149773
<SteveA> segfault: that is strange.  it doesn't do so for me.
<SteveA> can you try again please?
<carlos> SteveA, ?
<segfault> i tried, same error
<SteveA> carlos: /distros/ubuntu/breezy/+lang/fr
<spiv> SteveA: Hmm, I'm getting a system error from the front page!
<SteveA> is giving SQLObjectMoreThanOneResultError: 2 rows retrieved by selectOneBy  errors
<SteveA> spiv: hmm, same error
<spiv> From Expression: <PathExpr standard:'view/ubuntu_languages'> in root-portlet-rosetta.pt
<spiv> , due to the same error...
<segfault> shouldn't it be nice to see the error dump?
<carlos> SteveA, yeah, but I don't understand why...
<spiv> SteveA: Really quick hack would be to relax selectOneBy, I guess :/
* carlos looks at the code
<SteveA> spiv: having selectOneBy give the SQL query in the error would help
<spiv> SteveA: Hmm.
<SteveA>  Module canonical.launchpad.database.distrorelease, line 230, in getDistroReleaseLanguage
<SteveA> languageID=language.id)
<SteveA> anyway
<SteveA> that's the thing
<SteveA> i guess we have duplicate language ids
<SteveA> or that query is wrong
<carlos> ok
<carlos> we are missing a constraint there
<SteveA> so, i expect people who see errors are those who have certain language settings in their browsers
<SteveA> that's why i can't see the error
<SteveA> segfault: thanks for reporting the problem.
<SteveA> spiv: see the same thing on staging?
<segfault> no problem
<spiv> SteveA: Hmm, no, I don't.
<spiv> Very odd.
<ddaa> ajmitch: I'd like to make your imports, really... but I need your product description stuff before :)
<SteveA> spiv: do you have read access to the production DB?
<lifeless> he does
<lifeless> via auth server
<spiv> At least some bits of it.
<ajmitch> ddaa: sorry, been talking with gnue upstream :)
<spiv> And via the librarian.
<carlos> stub, do you have a minute and we solve that missing constraint?
<lifeless> more can be enabled if needed
<spiv> I don't know if that gives me read access to all tables?
<lifeless> check security.conf
* ddaa makes desperate gestures at lifeless
<ajmitch> ddaa: discussing whether they could use malone as their bug tracker
<ddaa> we'd certainly love that
<stub> carlos: sure
<ddaa> ajmitch: but your description suggest they're hardcore GNU, so the fact that Malone code is not released might be a problem.
<carlos> ok
<ajmitch> ddaa: gnu project, malone not free software.. so obstacles there
<ddaa> ajmitch: what I said :)
<ajmitch> you just typed faster :)
<ddaa> Much as I respect him, we surely do not want RMS to be out to get us because some GNU maintainers are depending on Launchpad.
<lifeless> ddaa: ?
<ajmitch> lifeless: if a gnu project decided to use malone for its bug tracker
<ddaa> lifeless: svn import code is leaky, preventing import of samba on hoover. Out of memory. Same condition for vlc on roomba.
<ddaa> lifeless: any clue?
<lifeless> ddaa: is it an error in our code, or are we dosing the svn server ?
<ddaa> local OOM
<lifeless> ouch
<lifeless> what rev # ?
<ddaa> variable
<ddaa> at least on hoover
<lifeless> well, pick a lower number, and use spivs object refcounting magic to print the refcounts
<lifeless> iz possibly apache portable runtime leakage too, might want to valgrind a very small import
<ddaa> on samba/hoover it's around 8-10k revisions, signal 6 or OSError
<ddaa> (in os.fork)
<spiv> ddaa: SIGABRT?  That's exciting :)
<ddaa> videolan fails with OSError in os.fork at about 2-3k revisions
<ddaa> spiv: I suspect it's OOM killer kiking in when other syncs run and want some memory
<ddaa> lifeless: what does the apache portable runtime have to do with that?
<ddaa> lifeless: I've been trying to loop the svn_oo test suite to see if I can reproduce the leak there, but on the second run I get plenty of failures with
<ddaa> ClientError: Unable to open an ra_local session to URL
<ddaa> Unable to open repository 'file:///home/david/home/devel/canonical/cscvs/,,onefilereporo/modulefile1
<ddaa> I suspect your cached repo magic is brittle...
<carlos> segfault, could you try it now?
<segfault> carlos: niiice. works. thanks!
<carlos> segfault, stub fixed it, so say thanks to him
<carlos> stub, thanks
<spiv> SteveA: want to review andrew.bennetts@canonical.com/sqlobject--selectOne-better-exception-message--0?  Try it with e.g. PYTHONPATH=lib python -c "from canonical.database.harness import *; EmailAddress.selectOneBy(personID=22)"
<SteveA> spiv: about to go for lunch.  can you mail me a request to review, and i'll do it when i get back?
<spiv> SteveA: Sure.
<carlos> pqm is stalled
<carlos> lifeless, ^^^
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--production--1.34: Turn off initZopeless warnings (patch-10: stuart.bishop@canonical.com)
<salgado> stub, around?
<stub> yes
<ddaa> OMG, svn_oo is such a fat pig! VmSize after svn_oo test suite iterations: 0: 130808 kB 1:  225244 kB 2: 319668 kB
<salgado> stub, can we make everything under /shipit to not raise RequestExpired()?
<ddaa> it's not a leak, it's a torrent!
<SteveA> salgado: not really.  talk to me about it when i come back from lunch please.
<salgado> SteveA, sure
<stub> salgado: What isn't working?
<SteveA> stub: go to sleep ;-p
<stub> I can login to shipit and view my order
<salgado> stub, some (all) queries to display pending/approved orders
<salgado> yes, for the users themselves it's not a problem. the problem is for Marilize
<stub> salgado: Can you confirm it is happening in the last few hours? I added a load of indexes to the shipit tables as part of the rollout
<salgado> well, I just tried it
<stub> salgado: Otherwise we need to fix the screens so I know what the queries it is trying to do are
<stub> erm... I mean I will need urls and such so I can determine what the queries are.
<stub> Or just some tracebacks if they are included
<salgado> stub, ShippingRequestSet.searchCustomRequests() and ShippingRequestSet.searchStandardRequests()
<stub> I'm more interested in the sql
<salgado> stub, there you'll see the sql
<salgado> stub, the traceback I got in /errors doesn't have the SQL that caused the problem
<stub> The query in ShippingRequestSet.searchCustomRequests needs to be rewritten as a group by 
<stub> as does the searchStandardRequests
<salgado> hmmm. I have the feeling I don't know how to do that
<stub> I'm trying to workout what ShippingRequestSet.sarchStandardRequests is actually trying to do? 
<salgado> stub, we have some standard options of orders for people to choose. that method will query all orders whose number of CDs match the number of CDs of the standard options
<Kinnison> If anyone here fancies an easy review (and with tests this time -- wahey) take on my buildd-slave patch I just added to the general queue on PendingReviews
<stub> That doesn't explain the options (status, omit_cancelled, standard_type)
<stub> ok
<salgado> you can filter the list using these options
<stub> And why do you want to return all custom requests, or all standard requests? Those lists are going to be huuuuge
<stub> I guess you need a list of all pending (or at least the first few)
<salgado> that's what she does --she queries all pending requests, most of the time
<salgado> sometimes she queries the approved ones, to make changes
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: [trivial]  Even spiv can get it wrong. rev launchpad-buildd to v8, ensure we pass .fileno() not the file object. (patch-2504: daniel.silverstone@canonical.com)
<salgado> anyway, today I was going to add more filter options so she can get useful results
<stub> ok. I think she will need them ;)
<salgado> yes, she will. there's a bug open on that
<stub> salgado: Are you batching the results?
<salgado> stub, not yet
<stub> salgado: I think that is the problem then. The queries arn't actually that slow (I need to do some more complete tests though). But rendering a list of 2000 shipments in tal will take ages.
<salgado> for sure that's part of the problem, but I don't think that's the main cause
<salgado> stub, can you query all orders with only 5 x86 CDs on production?
<stub> Can you give me the SQL?
<segfault> when will the blue and purple strings be merged to the packages?
<salgado> stub, nevermind. there must be thousands of orders with only 5 x86 CDs
<salgado> stub, I tried searching for another standard option and got 670 results. works just fine
<stub> 4166 if my query is correct
<salgado> it probably is
<salgado> that was a bad example I choose
* Kinnison adds a custom shipit request
<Kinnison> *g*
<stub> salgado: ok. I now think the searchStandardRequests SQL is fine. I can add some indexes to help.
<salgado> stub, and the searchCustomRequests is fine too? 
<salgado> I'm adding the batching already
<stub> one at a time ;)
<mpt> stub: How do I convert the current.sql password field from a sampledata account into an actual password? Alternatively, is there a list somewhere of sampledata accounts and passwords? (the only ones I know are foo.bar and carlos)
<stub> mpt: You can't reverse them. Ask here and maybe someone remembers.
<mpt> heh
<stub> mpt: If there is a page test that uses them, the Authorization: line can be reversed
<mpt> ok, so how do I do that?
<carlos> mpt, I think all accounts have the password 'test'
<mpt> Authorization: Basic amVmZi53YXVnaEB1YnVudHVsaW51eC5jb206dGVzdA==
<carlos> at least daf, carlos, foo.bar and non-priv are using that one
<stub> salgado: if shipit starts supporting more distroreleases or flavours, we will need to redo these indexes
<stub> mpt: 'amVmZi53YXVnaEB1YnVudHVsaW51eC5jb206dGVzdA=='.decode('base64')
<Kamion> I'd like to report some Rosetta bugs, but https://launchpad.net/products/rosetta gives a system error
<salgado> stub, no problem, I guess. we'll need to redo a lot of things to support that
<Kamion> known?
<mpt> carlos: jdub doesn't
<carlos> mpt, just change it to test and fix any test that fails or look at those test to know the right password....
<SteveA> there's a list of accounts and passwords in the sampledata
<mpt> carlos: Yes, I already asked how to get the password from the Authorization field
<carlos> Kamion, it works here...
<mpt> jdub's causing 4 test failures and I don't know why
<SteveA> i think (although i haven't checked) that it is possible to use plaintext names and passwords
<SteveA> and if not, i have a branch waiting to be merged for that
<Kamion> oh, works fine now
<Kamion> how strange, it definitely failed earlier - oh well :)
<carlos> Kamion, from what I see seems like you got a timeout
<carlos>  RequestExpired: The current request has expired  
<Kamion> I'm using an HTTP proxy over a VPN, I guess it could be misbehaviour there
<mpt> stub: thankyou
<mpt> huh, that does return "test", but trying that login doesn't work on localhost
<stub> salgado: Even without the indexes, the queries are running fast. I can speed them up, but I don't think they are a significant part of the rendering time.
<BjornT> SteveA: in our version of zope you can't use plaintext names and passwords, but you can in 3.1
<SteveA> BjornT: thanks
<salgado> stub, if the queries are running fast, then let's see if the batching solves the problem
<SteveA> BjornT: http://localhost:8086/distros/ubuntu/hoary/+sources/evolution/+bugs
<kiko-zzz> salgado, we need batching there -- definitely
<kiko-zzz> and searching
<SteveA> that page looks very empty
<kiko> hey ho
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: [trivial]  Fix kiko's easy-to-miss misspelling (patch-2505: daniel.silverstone@canonical.com)
<stub> salgado: So... should a shipment request change from being a custom request to a standard request if someone goes and changes the standard request definitions?
<kiko> Kinnison, what did I do now? :)
<stub> salgado: If not, we should be storing a 'standard' boolean in shippingrequest table, that would also make these queries trivial
<kiko> <stub> salgado: So... should a shipment request change from being a custom request to a standard request if someone goes and changes the standard request definitions?
<kiko> stub, the answer is probably yes
<BjornT> SteveA: yeah, thanks. i'll fix it
<kiko> silbs and marilize are looking at the orders to decide which options should be standard
<carlos> kiko, hi, SteveA did the review this morning, so don't worry about that
<SteveA> cprov: how's that sample data patch going?
<kiko> carlos, rock
<kiko> thanks SteveA you saved my life
<cprov> SteveA: testing locally, 10 mi
<SteveA> thanks cprov 
<cprov> SteveA: the addition of a sampledata key brakes some tests, repairing them
<SteveA> ok
<SteveA> probably a good thing to add the sample data
<SteveA> as it means more realistic code-paths are being tried
<stub> salgado: Anyway - I've sped up those queries by 33%. We can do more, but I wouldn't worry for now (test queries are running in around 0.25 seconds)
<salgado> stub, that's great. I think we won't have more problems as soon as we have batching
<stub> salgado: ohh.... you shouldn't select a list of ids, and then do ShippingRequest.select('id in (%s)' % ids)
<stub> . That is unnecessary and could give you problems.
<salgado> stub, how can I do that, then?
<salgado> using a temporary table?
<stub> salgado: You should be able to do it using select and clauseTables
<SteveA> cprov: sourcepackagerelease-index.pt.  what url can i go to in order to see it?
<stub> salgado: Although you might need to resort to using a view, as SQLObject will give you trouble otherwise
<cprov> SteveA: distribution/distrorelease/+sources/sourcename/releaseversion .. I think
<cprov> SteveA: it must be published in that distrorelease
<SteveA> a specific URL in the sample data
<cprov> SteveA: are you working in canonical_url for srcrelease ?
<SteveA> no, although if there isn't on, i'll need to make one
<SteveA> i want to see that page template rendered
<SteveA> so i can adjust its menus
<salgado> stub, I guess the view is the best thing to do. I'll probably do this today, as part of the work I'll do to improve the searches
<SteveA> adn see the results
<stub> salgado: https://chinstrap.ubuntu.com/~dsilvers/paste/file2hWTGJ.html
<SteveA> Kinnison: how big is vegastrike-data ?
<stub> vegastrike still fit on a CD last time I saw it...
<cprov> SteveA: difficult to do, many moving parts involved, I wonder if we can do it properly in the sampledata and not mess up with publising history, but I think we have some 'wrong' stuff for hoary (mozilla or pmount) in the sampledata 
<SteveA> cprov: we should be able to see all the page templates at URLs on localhost, based on the default contents of the sample data.  otherwise, it makes any problems really hard to debug, and it means we probably don't have page tests for these things.
<SteveA> cprov: can you let me know when you have the signed coc sampledata mirrored, and i'll merge directly from your branch.  also, send it to pqm.  i just want it earlier.
<cprov> SteveA: yes, I know 
<cprov> SteveA: sure, test still wrong, more some minutes
<SteveA> thanks
* bradb gets the first complaints coming in about Reply-To checking and mailman.
<Kinnison> SteveA: between 150 and 250 megs, I forget exactly
<SteveA> i'm suprised that didn't easily fit across xmlrpc
<SteveA> it's not ideal, but should't have caused a barf
<Kinnison> it comes across, gets decoded, gets stringIOed, OOMs
<Kinnison> kiko: When you "cleaned up" you changed a 'binarypackagerelease' to a 'binarypackage' by mistake
<Kinnison> kiko: It's the kind of mistake I make too, it was just a debugging statement but I fixed it
<cprov> SteveA: celso.providelo@canonical.com/launchpad--soyuyUI--0--patch-15
<cprov> SteveA: should not product any conflicts, but I'm merging from RF now
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: Reject onlly the pofiles that have dates older than last import and accept the ones that are equal or newer. Also, we give karma only to translations done inside Rosetta. r=SteveA (patch-2506: carlos.perello@canonical.com)
<SteveA> thank you cprov 
<cprov> SteveA: nop
<SteveA> cprov: will you look into that published release thing too?
<kiko> Kinnison, sorry -- and being a debug statement, tough to test, too :-(
<Kinnison> kiko: aye, s'okay, I spotted it while doing a publishing run and fix0red it
<kiko> Kinnison, perhaps using smaller functions the undefined name would come up in pyflakes
<cprov> SteveA: you should be able to see sourcepackagerelease-index in sampledata, I think
<Kinnison> kiko: perhaps.
<stub> carlos: That the patch that needs cherry picking?
<SteveA> cprov: what URL ?
<cprov> SteveA: http://localhost:8086/distros/ubuntu/hoary/+sources/pmount for sourcepackage only, you are right, we can't see sourcepackagerelease yet
<SteveA> okay.  i want to be able to get a URL where i can see that template, based on the sample data
<carlos> stub, yeah, I just sent you an email
<carlos> stub, if you could apply that before leaving...
<SteveA> carlos: https://launchpad.net/errors/showEntry.html?id=1127830161.350.075378138752
<SteveA> jamesh: 
<SteveA> https://launchpad.net/errors/showEntry.html?id=1127830025.820.952379835119
<carlos> SteveA, it expired already
<SteveA> carlos: works for me
<carlos> Exception traceback
<carlos> The specified log entry was not found. It may have expired.
<SteveA> https://chinstrap.ubuntu.com/~dsilvers/paste/fileXnH5ac.html
<SteveA> look there carlos 
<cprov> SteveA: today, I won't have time to do it, but woul be nice it you can submit a bug for it (it will be postponed probably until "basic test coverage for soyuz" task)
<kiko> SteveA, carlos: I believe that bug is reported
<kiko> search for rosetta bugs containing newlines or unix
<SteveA> kiko: any idea about this one? https://chinstrap.ubuntu.com/~dsilvers/paste/fileXsuZBb.html
<carlos> kiko, yeah, you already reported it
<kiko> SteveA, looking
<ddaa> gah
<ddaa> apparently, the svn_oo memory leak is scared away by valgrind...
<ddaa> SteveA: is it acceptable to run production services under valgrind to fix a memory leak?
<kiko> matsubara, bug 1419 is a dupe of another already reported rosetta bug
<SteveA> if elmo is happy with valgrind installed on a server, it gets the job done, and it doesn't piss on anyone's shoes, sure
<kiko> matsubara, https://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/908
<cprov> SteveA: thanks for # 2603
<SteveA> np
* ddaa looks at SteveA with a scared face
* SteveA looks at ddaa's shoes
<ddaa> right... what did I expect from the guy who fixes bugs by running "python -O" :)
<SteveA> i fully expect at least one of the three conditions to be false
<ddaa> it would get the job done, given 100x the hardware and a lot of time
<SteveA> cprov: which user now has a signed Co
<SteveA> cprov: which user now has a signed CoC?
<cprov> SteveA: name16
<SteveA> ddaa: if you had 100x the hardware, the memory leak wouldn't matter
<SteveA> thanks cprov 
<carlos> SteveA, stub https://launchpad.net/errors/showEntry.html?id=1127831112.880.702582916245
<carlos> we still get timeouts...
<cprov> SteveA: is it enough ?
<SteveA> cprov: hmm
<SteveA> i still can't see a way to get a page that uses signedcodeofconduct-portlet-actions.pt
<SteveA> maybe it isn't used
<cprov> SteveA: could be, mpt have modified some things after i land it
<SteveA> actually,
<SteveA> i see a page where name16 has signed a CoC
<SteveA> and a checkbox to deactivate it
<SteveA> but no page to actually get to the CoC itself
<cprov> SteveA: /codeofconduct/console/
<SteveA> what goes in the "from:" box?
<SteveA> aha -- i have the page i need.  thanks.
<SteveA> that "From:" and the search form is confusing
<SteveA> maybe get mpt's opinion on it, and file a bug on how to improve it?
<cprov> SteveA: again, AFAIK he already spend some time on it, but ok, it still needing his love, bug him, if there is something I must he will let me know  
<SteveA> ok
<SteveA> the thing is, i found the "From:" form item confusing
<SteveA> i tried to enter dates in there
<SteveA> then tried to leave it blank, expecting to get a batch of all the results
<SteveA> then tried name16
<cprov> SteveA: a form help message would solve the issue, I see you point 
<mpt> What kind of data is supposed to go in there?
<mpt> cprov?
<mpt> I can fix it right now, I'm in [trivial]  mode
<cprov> mpt: oh, sorry afk ... displayname or name, let me verify 
<cprov> mpt: uses person fti
<mpt> fti?
<cprov> mpt: the postgres word indexing, i.e, name, displayname, etc whatever they configure the indexing engine
<mpt> So "Enter all or part of a person's name."
<kiko> SteveA, that bug is also reported
<SteveA> kiko: and assigned to jamesh?
<kiko> hmmm
<cprov> mpt: yes, name16, foo, bar, Foo, Bar, etc work
<kiko> let me find out
<kiko> SteveA, I discovered there's a launchpad-cal product?
<cprov> mpt: ahhh, '%' is everything
<mpt> cprov: and "" is also everything, I hope
<SteveA> "" is nothing :-(
<mpt> that's bad
<cprov> mpt: no, as SteveA said "" is nothing 
<cprov> mpt: do you want me to change it ?
<mpt> yes, I think it would be better if it worked like a filter
<mpt> so if you don't enter anything, you get everything
<cprov> mpt: ok, will do it now as trivial 
<mpt> cprov: Does the search include e-mail addresses as well?
<cprov> mpt: I'm not sure if the Person.fti includes person email, maybe salgado knows ?
<salgado> cprov, no, it doesn't
<salgado> cprov, mpt, AFAICT we don't have any cross-table fti
<Kinnison> SteveA: When you asked about vegastrike-data earlier, was that because you'd decided to take on my branch for review?
<cprov> salgado: yes, exactly ... thank you 
<SteveA> Kinnison: no
<Kinnison> SteveA: *sob*
<Kinnison> SteveA: Celso has a patch which I want in RF. It's a stop-gap measure until the uploader is in place. it's more than a few lines, but it'll be thrown away when the uploader is done. Can he merge it [trivial]  or rs=dsilvers ?
<SteveA> Kinnison: what modules does it touch?
<Kinnison> just buildd master slave scanner IIRC
<kiko> SteveA, jamesh: what do we do about the launchpad-cal product?
<kiko> SteveA, https://launchpad.net/products/launchpad/+bug/2166
<SteveA> kiko: we should have two products: launchpad and rosetta
<SteveA> well, and shipit
<kiko> there's many malone bugs
<kiko> I think it deserves its own product
<SteveA> Kinnison: if the only files it touches are in that subsystem, then that's fine.
<Kinnison> SteveA: which, [trivial]  or rs=dsilvers ?
<kiko> SteveA, I'm going to assign that bug to neuman, it's an easy fix
<SteveA> kiko: do we want end users to distingush between whether they're in malone code or in launchpad code?
<SteveA> kiko: make sure it gets a test ;-)
<SteveA> Kinnison: rs=stevea
<kiko> SteveA, the test is quite trivial -- just add to xx-notfound-traversals
<Kinnison> SteveA: thanks
<kiko> SteveA, I think bug reporters know if the bug occurred while tracking a bug, doing a translation, or using any other part launchpad
<kiko> SteveA, until we get moving around products however it's going to be painful
<kiko> gneuman, you have bug 2166 too
<kiko> thanks bradb you're a star
<cprov> SteveA: could you verify the review you did yesterday for me, I've improved the tests and added some librarian setup code for use when running the test alone
<SteveA> anyone available to review some code?
<SteveA> cprov: okay.  what do i need to look at?
<cprov> SteveA: https://chinstrap.ubuntu.com/~dsilvers/paste/fileOXR1j8.html
<SteveA> cprov: they look okay.  i can't really concentrate on them well, as i wrote too much code today already :-/  using 'assert' in doctests seems odd to me.
<cprov> SteveA: assert is only used for things I can't be sure, like buildduration, datebuilt (timestamps) and buildlog (librarian alias)
<SteveA> i don't know what you mean by "used for things I can't be sure"
<cprov> SteveA: buildduration and datebuilt are timestamps, usually "NOW" how to check it ? i could use type, but it still being inside an assert 
<cprov> SteveA: is it ok then ?
<cprov> salgado: have time for a 50 lines review to unblock mpt ?
<SteveA> it looks okay to me, but i didn't look at it very deeply.  i think it is okay to merge, but you might want to ask salgado for a second look at it.
<cprov> SteveA: fair enough, let's see if he has time ... thank you
<mpt> cprov: I'm not blocked, I'll just merge assuming that you also merge soon :-)
<mpt> "Leave blank for a complete list."
<cprov> mpt: ok, it was just a excuse to unblock myself ;) 4 trees with pending stuff, brain is screaming ...
<cprov> salgado: ping?
<salgado> cprov, where's the diff?
<cprov> salgado: https://chinstrap.ubuntu.com/~dsilvers/paste/filenv7z3Z.html
<kiko> gneuman, when you send me code, please cite the bug number it fixes -- matsubara, thanks for including the bug #
<kiko> matsubara, I decided that bug 1419 is not a dupe of 908, but only derived from it
<kiko> I'll undupe
<kiko> matsubara, when was the last time you merged from rocketfuel?
<kiko> I think those links are disabled
<matsubara> i merged friday
<matsubara> but the links wasn't disabled yet, cause steve was waiting for a revision
<ddaa> OMG... python-subversion memory management is... inexistent...
<kiko> matsubara, ah
<matsubara> anyway, i re-enable it because it's working now and the page is self-explaining (steve was complaining about that) as you can see in the bug comments
<kiko> matsubara, I think the latest code in RF has them disabled in browser code.
<kiko> bradb, SteveA: I got a bad conflict when star-merging -- can someone send me the current version of browser/bugtask.py?
<bradb> kiko: the quickest would probably be to get $rocketfuel, because I'd have to do that too, to ensure I have the most recent
<bradb> and gets don't normally take long
<SteveA> quicketst -- get on chinstrap
<mpt> go go pqm
<SteveA> ssh it across
<kiko> fucking baz
<mpt> bradb: https://launchpad.net/products/malone/+bug/2608
<bradb> yeah, looks like somebody broke that
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: [r=BjornT]  support tracker cleanup; [trivial]  fix bug 1389 (patch-2507: mpt@canonical.com)
<kiko> mpt, I just noticed the same 
<mpt> ha
<mpt> I was just about to report a bug about a Malone notification having a malformed Reply-To header, then I realized the notification containing the malformed Reply-To header was notifying me that Bjorn had just reported the bug about the malformed Reply-To header
<kiko> heh
<kiko> cprov, ping?
<cprov> kiko: pong
<kiko> can I assign matsubara to bug 2609?
<SteveA> mpt: you changed lib/canonical/launchpad/templates/ticket-portlet-actions.pt
<SteveA> mpt: what did you change?
<cprov> kiko: sure
<kiko> thanks
<mpt> SteveA: from memory, it was just s/ticket/request/g
<SteveA> okay, i have a diff of it
<SteveA> i have totally converted that into menus
<mpt> was I right? :-)
<SteveA> you did more than that
<SteveA> but i can change the menu
<mpt> ok, sorry about that
<mpt> that branch was started before the actions portlet nuking
<kiko>  EmailAddressAlreadyTaken: The email address azam.r@rediffmail.com is already registered.  
<kiko> salgado?
<bradb> darn, system error assiging specs to milestones
<ddaa> memory managemen by svn: freeing memory? hu? what for?
* ddaa cringes
<bradb> How do I access the error logs for production? https://launchpad.net/errors gives me a 403.
<mpt> kiko: See, I'm not the only one!!
<mpt> bradb: Install the Launchpad client cert. in your browser
<kiko> bradb, doh. 
<ddaa> maybe if I just fork cscvs for each revision that would make it possible to keep the leak in control...
* ddaa kicks svn
* ddaa stabs svn
* ddaa goes to piss off some people on #svn
<bradb> Hey, cool, Safari in Tiger has "private browsing". Worry-free pr0n surfing.
<SteveA> argh -- seeing &#8217; in page template source makes them much harder to read and understand
<SteveA> worse than other things because they interrupt a word
<salgado> kiko, ?
<kiko> salgado?
<kiko> have you seen that error before?
<mpt> SteveA: Actually, I can fix that by specifying an encoding in main-template.pt
<mpt> since we're serving XHTML-as-HTML
<SteveA> does that mean that the files would no longer be ascii
<SteveA> ?
<salgado> kiko, I don't remember seeing it before
<bradb> Can someone privmsg me the client cert password?
<mpt> SteveA: correct
<kiko> me neither
<SteveA> my point is, would it mean that ordinary programmers would not be able to type a consistent "'" ?
<SteveA> no, don't do that
<SteveA> i think apostrophes should be the "'" character in launchpad
<bradb> kiko: Thanks
<kiko> SteveA, why not use something like DPoT to convert?
<mpt> SteveA: No, it wouldn't mean that
<SteveA> kiko: this stuff is coded directly into templates
<SteveA> it makes them hard to read
<kiko> SteveA, that I don't like very much either
<mpt> So does all this <a href="..."> and <code> and <div> goop
<kiko> SteveA, btw, is there a cookbook on working around "Constraint not satisfied"?
<SteveA> they don't occur in the middle of a word, mpt
<SteveA> i don't object to "nice quotes" around a word
<SteveA> but, to interrupt a word in the middle is awful
<SteveA> kiko: how do you get that?
<bradb> Hm, where are we at with fixing the problem with error logs, and getting a random error log when you visit launchpad.net/errors?
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--production--1.34: [trivial]  production cherry picks (patch-11: carlos.perello@canonical.com, stuart.bishop@canonical.com, rocketfuel@canonical.com)
<kiko> SteveA, matsubara gets it when uploading a larger hackergotchi than allowed.
<SteveA> so, working as it was designed?
<kiko> SteveA, yes, apart from the horrible error message
<SteveA> aha
<kiko> IIRC stub explained how to avoid that
<SteveA> i'd have to research it.  i don't have the answer in front of me.  maybe BjornT knows.
<kiko> stub knows
<BjornT> kiko: you should raise a LaunchpadValidationError in the validator
<kiko> aha
<kiko> salgado, matsubara: is that easy to do for you?
<mpt> SteveA: When did you last land menus work?
<SteveA> bjorn is reviewing the next lot now
<SteveA> this basically finishes the conversion
<mpt> Sorry, I meant, when did you *last* land menus work, as in, did you get my fix for the Rosetta status legend
<mpt> someone's just reported a bug on it
<SteveA> i have no idea what "Rosetta status legend" means
<SteveA> best thing to do is
<SteveA> 1. log into chinstrap
<SteveA> 2. baz get rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0
<mpt> SteveA: The stuff you merged from me yesterday included a change to rosetta-status-legend.pt
<SteveA> 3. look in the resulting tree to see if it is there
<salgado> kiko, yes, that is. I'll guide matsubara to fix that
<SteveA> i haven't had pqm merge things since yesterday
<mpt> ok
<kiko> thanks salgado -- you rock as usual
<mpt> thanks
<SteveA> everything that was on your Menus branch today will be merged later today or early tomorrow
<SteveA> mpt: i've just added a custom error page for requests timing out
<SteveA> you'll probably want to improve the text on it
<mpt> okie dokie
<SteveA> but the idea is to let people know that it is a different kind of error, and may well be transient, and also to let the developers know more quickly the nature of the problem.
<SteveA> ddaa: ping
<ddaa> ding dong
<SteveA> apr_initialize() ; stuff ; apr_terminate()
<ddaa> makes no difference
<SteveA> try that
<SteveA> okay
<ddaa> that's why I ommited it, it's not part of the minimal snippet :)
<SteveA> cprov: the console stuff for signed cocs -- is it accessible by admins only?
<cprov> SteveA: yes 
<SteveA> thanks
<kiko-fud> bradb, please don't assign bugs to mark.
<bradb> who should it be assigned to?
<kiko> anyone but him
<kiko> I'll fix it
<kiko> don't worry
<kiko> just use that for future reference
<bradb> ok
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: [trivial]  Unpublishing a missing file should be a noop. (also fix silly typo in debug message in death row processor) (patch-2508: daniel.silverstone@canonical.com)
<Kinnison> ciao dudes
<mpt> tchau
<zyga> hello
<zyga> https://launchpad.net/products/launchpad/+bug/2612
<zyga> how to add requests for enchancement?
<kiko> zyga, use malone, it's practically the same.
<zyga> hmm, isn't this the same thing *exactly*?
<kiko> that's a good question
<kiko> mark has the idea that enhancement/feature requests are different than bugs
<kiko> it may be that he's changed his mind now that he has a spec tracker
<bradb> aw damn
<bradb> monster pqm queue of death, and now i see that i'm going to conflict with BjornT's patch
<bradb> so, who wants to bounce pqm? :)
<kiko> pas moi
<bradb> ciboire
<mpt> bradb: Did you realize how many things would have broken if you *hadn't* set up a redirect for /malone/bugs/x? :-)
<bradb> there was no question about the redirect
<bradb> it would have been just plain rude any other way
<mpt> Should the URLs included in e-mail notifications change now?
<mpt> (and if so, to what?)
<bradb> i'm not so sure
<bradb> maybe to just /bugs/42 ;)
<mpt> or bugs.launchpad.net/42
<bradb> that would be a lot harder
<bradb> because it would imply that bugs.launchpad.net works
<kiko> right
<mpt> true
<bradb> unfortunately, the bugmail address already gives that illusion :/
<kiko> true
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: [trivial]  change a .remove to .pop to fix strange pool bug (patch-2509: daniel.silverstone@canonical.com)
<mpt> well, move the "bug" from after the @ to the start of the address, and drop the "s." ;-)
<bradb> dilys: are you serious?
<kiko> Kinnison, with fixes?
<BjornT> bradb: hmm, maybe your patch is better, i simply disabled the huge lists. did you make them batched, though? otherwise the new page probably will take too long to render.
* bradb wonders how that merge landed
<bradb> BjornT: no batching. batching hurts.
<bradb> BjornT: i broke it into two reports though
<bradb> because a "bugs on my software" thing is important to keep
<kiko> BjornT, yeah, bradb's patch is nicer..
<bradb> mpt: possibly. or i was thinking bug.42@... might be a slightly cleaner (looking) way to do it.
<bradb> of course, *ideally*, i would love it if bugs.launchpad.net actually *did* work :)
<BjornT> bradb, kiko: the number of bugs directly assigned to a user is fairly small, though. which means that the new page will cause a system error, just like +assignedbugs did. is that really what we want?
<bradb> BjornT: i think so. currently, the "Assigned Bugs" report shows more than just assigned bugs, which seems confusing. we can tune the reports further, if needed.
<mpt> hooray for that
<kiko> BjornT, I see your point -- he moved everything out of there, is that it?
<BjornT> bradb: i agree that +assignedbugs should show only bugs assigned to the user. the question is, do we want to add a page which probably will cause a system error?
<bradb> BjornT: no, but we want to have a page to view bugs on software you maintain. if it still causes a system error, we'll optimize it.
<BjornT> kiko: yeah, he move the part that took long to render
<BjornT> bradb: then i suggest, temporarily disable it, optimize it, enable it. how does that sound?
<bradb> BjornT: why not see if it works first? :)
<bradb> i suspect one of the nastier culprits on that page was the "bugs with shared interest" bit
<bradb> e.g. i can render the +assignedbugs report when i'm not logged in, but when i login, that "bugs with shared interest" query gets run, and whoops, timeout error
<zyga> bradb: what is pqm?
<BjornT> bradb: from my testing with sample data, viewing /people/bjornt/+assignedbugs shouldn't show that part. maybe i'm wrong, though.
<bradb> BjornT: the query gets run if you're logged in
<mpt> zyga: Patch Queue Manager
<BjornT> bradb: searching for bugs also takes longer while you're logged in, so it could be the query for private bugs that slow things down.
<mpt> zyga: It takes all the changes we're making to the Launchpad code, applies them in order, and for each one tells us if the change was applied successfully
<BjornT> bradb: ouch, it shouldn't... but did you remove that part, or is that on the new page as well?
<bradb> BjornT: it should. that's the way the tal:condition is setup. that bit is completely gone on my branch.
<bradb> (the code behind the scenes is still there if we want to display that info somewhere else, but it doesn't seem to make sense on an "assigned bugs" report, nor on a "bugs on software i maintain" report.)
<BjornT> bradb: when i said "shouldn't" i didn't mean according to the tal:condition, but according to common sense :)
<BjornT> bradb: in fact, it isn't being run, only the view method is called which returns early
<bradb> the method always gets called when you're logged in, as best i can tell. i can see though that it short-circuits when current user == the person of the page being rendered
<BjornT> bradb: so what do you think. should we go for your patch and see how it goes, or go with mine and fix it properly later?
<zyga> mpt: hmm so you send a changeset to this PQM and it applies them in submission orted?
<zyga> order
<mpt> yes
<zyga> seems random :D
<mpt> well, usually we don't conflict with each other, so it's not a problem
<zyga> how big is the launchpad tree?
<mpt> 30,000 lines, iirc
<zyga> nice
<bradb> BjornT: i'd kind of prefer to leave it in there, because then at least we can test it, e.g. on staging. i can probably fix it proper before the next prod rollout.
<zyga> the largest project I've worked on has 48K lines
<bradb> zyga: did the users like it?
<BjornT> bradb: this patch should get cherry picked into production, it's not good to have pages that produce system errors
<zyga> bradb: its a very advanced linguistic search engine, all C
<zyga> the GUI's are not counted into this
<zyga> bradb: the users love it, they don't have a choice ;=)
<zyga> but anyway it was really nice, all the similar stuff was either close sourced or really insignificant
<zyga> or both
<mpt> boom, firefox go bye bye
<Hieronymus> The search function in Malone isn't working for me
<bradb> BjornT: *shrug*. not sure what to tell you. both of our patches make the same change (it sounds like) to +assignedbugs. neither of our patches will guarantee that the system error goes away. mine keeps a +packagebugs page there too, so that we might at least start to see a pattern emerging of where the problem is. (don't forget that the privacy query gets run on both our +assignedbugs patches anyway.)
<mpt> DIE PLONE.CSS DIE
<bradb> kill it
<bradb> baz rm plone.css; baz commit -s "buhbye"
<kiko> bradb, it's your day to do a drive-by review
<BjornT> bradb: well +assignedbugs will contain a small number of bugs, so it shouldn't be a problem. how about if i leave my patch in pqm and get it cherry picked into production. you resolve the conflicts and resubmit your patch, which we can test on staging?
<kiko> are you ready?
<bradb> BjornT: yeah, that seems ok to me
<bradb> kiko: sure
<BjornT> bradb: cool
<kiko> bradb, it's for fixing that bug about the assignee widget javascript -- remind me of the number again?
<bradb> kiko: cool. #2107.
<BjornT> kiko: how's it going with my reviews?
<kiko> BjornT, I'm going to start after fixing this, you should see how much more pull office people have for reviews :-P
<bradb> BjornT: thanks for filing the bug reports about the bug reports. btw, the report seems to have some attachment pollution in it. e.g. https://launchpad.net/products/malone/+bug/2614
<bradb> maybe that's a known problem
<kiko> bradb, sending diff off
<bradb> cool
<BjornT> bradb: yeah, i should remove that one, it's quite trivial.
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: [trivial]  fix temporary buildd result collector to accomplish with publisher, its a worarround before landing uploader properly. (patch-2510: celso.providelo@canonical.com)
<kiko> bradb, received it?
<bradb> kiko: yeah, just looking now
<kiko> thanks
<bradb> kiko: can you make it select that specific radio button in onKeyPress radio event? (e.g. the one with id assign_to)
<kiko> hmmmm
<kiko> using getElementById()?
<kiko> perhaps
<kiko> bradb, sent another patch to fix a traversal issue I just found
<bradb> also, shouldn't it be on the onFocus event? e.g. onFocus="javascript: getElementById('assign_to').checked = true"
<kiko> I don't think so
<bradb> hm, actually, neither of those events seems to focus the correct radio button if you use "(Choose...)" to pick the assignee
<kiko> I think I can work around that
<kiko> BjornT, how do I place an explicit semicolon in a tal:attributes string declaration?
<BjornT> kiko: a quick google search told me to double the semicolon (;;)
<kiko> sorry :-(
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: [r=stevea]  Release DEPWAIT and CHROOTWAIT jobs in slavescanner, only block BUILDERFAIL ones (patch-2511: celso.providelo@canonical.com)
<bradb> zope 3 is usually not very googlable
<kiko> that's why I didn't try
<BjornT> true. TAL isn't specific to zope 3, though, so it's easier to find information about that.
<bradb> one other thing (sorry, was on phone there for a bit), but it looks like you removed a space above ISinglePopupView that leaves only one space between it and the previous class's method declaration. normally it's 2 blank lines between class definitions
<bradb> same with top-level function defs
<kiko> perhaps I did
<kiko> but that file is all busted anyway
<kiko> fixed
<salgado> kiko, let's review https://chinstrap.warthogs.hbd.com/~jamesh/pending-reviews/guilherme.salgado@canonical.com/launchpad--shipitng--1/filtered-diff together?
<kiko> yes
<kiko> let me finish my patch for bradb
* bradb looks at the traversal patch
<bradb> BjornT: hm, is it possible for the "name" passed to a traverser function to ever be None? that doesn't make sense to me.
<kiko> bradb, did you see the URL I provided in the summary?
<bradb> yes
<BjornT> bradb: i don't think so. why do you ask?
<kiko> that system error outs
<bradb> BjornT: just curious, because kiko was putting checks against None in this traversal patch
<kiko> because if you don't, it blows up.
<bradb> kiko: name isn't None in that case. name is +bug
<BjornT> kiko: which URL? if it blows up, there should be a test causes None to be passed as the name.
<bradb> and then we try to consume the next path step inside the traverser to get the right bugtask to show
<kiko> bradb, really?
<bradb> yeah
<kiko> that's not what the traceback tells me.
<bradb> that's what _consume_next_step is all about
<kiko> I think you're confused.
* lamont ponders what python function will take a uid number, and turn that into a name
<kiko> bradb, https://launchpad.net/products/launchpad/+bug
<kiko>     *  if nextstep.isdigit():
<kiko> AttributeError: 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'isdigit'
<bradb> right, nextstep, not name :)
<kiko> oh, sorry.
<kiko> that was just me being extra-cautious :)
<bradb> kiko: also, the _traverse_plus_bug function you created has three args, but your callsites are only passing two
<bradb> not sure what "self" is all about
<kiko> I nuked that, I was on crack
<bradb> can you send me a new version of that patch? this code is b0rked dude. :P
<kiko> no
<kiko> all I did was remove the self method
<bradb> then it's still broken
<kiko> really?
<bradb> it's referring to "request" in that function, when request isn't defined
<kiko> yes, bradb, with the obvious fixes
<kiko> anything else?
<kiko> I feel like invoking the BRUCE on you
<bradb> you mean you renamed "nextstep" to "request"?
<kiko> yes, bradb, the obvious fixes (the patch hadn't been run)
<bradb> kiko: you can remove the "name is not None" bit of that if statement, in case you hadn't already
<kiko> sure
<kiko> the name will never be none, right?
<bradb> according to BjornT and I, it wouldn't make sense. you can blame us later if we turn out to be wrong.
<kiko> sure
<bradb> other than that, i'd add a check_not_found test for each +bug traversal in xx-notfound-traversals.txt
<kiko> will do
<kiko> thanks
<bradb> np
<bradb> p.s. PQM IS WAITING FOR YOU
<kiko> bradb, fixed the other issue with the JS patch
<bradb> sweet. so, it'll work with Choose...?
<kiko> yep.
<kiko> bradb, is PQM hung then?
<salgado> no, it's not
<bradb> kiko: no, i guess not. just taking astonishingly long.
<bradb> there are three hour old requests still in the queue
<salgado> the queue's been full all day
<asmodai> kiko: you happy? :)
<kiko> asmodai, you rock!
<asmodai> kiko: hahaha
<asmodai> kiko: you're welcome, hope it works out to something nice for you guys. ^^
<kiko> me too!
<asmodai> Michael is a cool guy to deal with, passionate about things, which you might've guessed from his email
<asmodai> No idea on the pure business side of things though, he at least seems to be very concrete.
<kiko> yeah, seems very sane
<kiko> I need to talk to gabriel here to see who we can allocate to this
<asmodai> *nods*
<asmodai> Done much on BSD yet?
<kiko> we have two projects on openbsd
<asmodai> Oh nice.
<asmodai> If there's any issues I can help out with, just bellow. 
<kiko> thanks, you rock
<asmodai> de nada
* asmodai is waiting for the day this code clean up is done so he can refactor. =\
<asmodai> kiko: And if stuff goes as it should you will wind up doing Ubuntu related coding too for them I guess ;)
<kiko> hopefully!
<asmodai> It's in your hands ;)
* BjornT -> bed
<kiko> bradb, damn, I can't find out if the onkeypress() method is standard or not.
<bradb> hm, it's mentioned here: http://www.w3.org/TR/WD-html40-970917/interact/forms.html#edef-INPUT but the wording isn't written in a way that clearly says to me "this is standard"
<bradb> seems like a definite maybe
<kiko> bradb, AFAICS that refers to the event, which does exist and is standard
<sabdfl> mpt: ! you karma monster!
<mpt> What have I done?
<sabdfl> dude, you're like in the top 5 on LP!
<sabdfl> pretty awesome
<mpt> oh, right :-)
<mpt> from all my bug reporting, I guess
<mpt> and the occasional fix doesn't hurt, either
<janimo> ping lifeless
<kiko> I should get into translating
<kiko> it gives you lots of karma
<kiko> bug work just doesn't pay off
<janimo> ping jblack
<mpt> yeah, I have 938 and jordi has, like, 9857
* mpt pouts
<janimo> are any of the bazaar importer people here?
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: Add batch navigation to the list of shipit orders. r=kiko (patch-2512: guilherme.salgado@canonical.com)
<salgado> hey kiko, what about that code review?
<kiko> salgado, almost there
<kiko> janimo, hmm ddaa or jblack are the guys
<salgado> kiko, are you reviewing it already?
<kiko> salgado, no, finishing my patch
<janimo> kiko, thanks is there a launchpad m-l?
<kiko> janimo, you can file bugs on launchpad, and I can make sure they are fixed
<janimo> ok thanks, I was about to ask about importing from external svn to baz but will get jblack tomorrow
<kiko> sure thing
<jordi> so much jealousy
<jordi> good night folks
<kiko> gnight
<sabdfl> spiv: ping
<sabdfl> night kiko
<sabdfl> jordi: dude. #1
<sabdfl> taste it
#launchpad 2006-09-25
<mpt> Goooooooooooood morning Launchpadders!
<Nafallo> morning mpt :-)
<Nafallo> mpt: I was kinda hoping you might answer "Single-User Mode" on Ubuntu Desktop with your favorite term to use for the specific question in there ;-).
<Nafallo> ubuntu-desktop@l.u.c that is :-)
<mpt> Nafallo, ok
<Nafallo> :-)
<mpt> ah, and I was just up to that message too
<Nafallo> :-)
<mpt> Perhaps "Recovery Mode"
<mpt> but I don't really know enough about what it does to be able to give a useful reply
<Nafallo> well, I can explain that :-)
<Nafallo> it drops you to a shell as root :-)
<Ubugtu> New bug: #62228 in rosetta "What happens to translations should be clearer" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/62228
<Nafallo> no network up, not even discs mounted :-)
<Nafallo> just a shell to mock around and fix what's wrong
<mpt> well, that's no fun, is it
<mpt> Even Windows "Safe Mode" has a GUI
<mpt> hmmm
<Nafallo> yea, but Windows mounts your faulty disc if needed to :-P
<Nafallo> so it's a feature for us :-)
<Nafallo> (that's why "Safe Mode" is not an option for it btw ;-))
<Nafallo> Safe Mode should probably do what it does on the livecd, start X with vesa-drivers :-)
<Nafallo> but we don't have that
<mpt> What's wrong with mounting a faulty disk?
* Fujitsu watches mpt's FS explode.
<Nafallo> well, if it's faulty you might want to make it work again before mounting it :-)
<Nafallo> fsck etc...
<Nafallo> Fujitsu: hehe, the harddrive should know ;-)
<ajmitch> is there some way to view history for a product series? I was sure that https://launchpad.net/products/f-spot/0.1 used to point to a different cvs branch :)
<jamesh> I got spammed via the gobby bug tracker ...
<jamesh> http://darcs.0x539.de/trac/obby/cgi-bin/trac.cgi/ticket/105
<ajmitch> impressive, spam bots know trac now?
<jamesh> ajmitch: they were opening and closing the bug -- I wouldn't be surprised if it was a human
<jamesh> some of the comments seem to have been removed
<epsilom> is there launchpad in spanish?
<mpt> hi jamesh 
<jamesh> hi mpt
<mpt> epsilom, Launchpad's interface is currently available only in English
<mpt> though you can use it to translate other software into Spanish
<epsilom> thanks
<mpt> jamesh, you suggested I use .split('\n') and .startswith/endswith(' '), instead of a bunch of .startswith('\n ') or... statements, to detect leading/trailing lines
<epsilom> this channel is for launchpad for kubuntu and ubuntu?
<mpt> jamesh, but when I try that I get "AttributeError: 'POMsgID' object has no attribute 'split'"
<mpt> I don't understand why the "in" operator works but "split" does not
<mpt> epsilom, this channel is for Launchpad in general. If you have a question specifically about Ubuntu or Kubuntu, try #ubuntu or #kubuntu respectively.
<jamesh> mpt: split() is a method of string objects.  "for x in foo:" just requires that "foo" implement the iterator protocol
<mpt> ok
<epsilom> ok
<mpt> jamesh, does https://devpad.canonical.com/~andrew/paste/fileuajrAM.html look reasonable to you?
<mpt> I worked out the problem was that it needed to be msgid.msgid.split(), not msgid.split()
<jamesh> mpt: maybe using splitlines would be appropriate here
<jamesh> >>> 'a\nb\r\nc\rd'.splitlines()
<jamesh> ['a', 'b', 'c', 'd'] 
<mpt> neat, thanks jamesh 
<fabbione> hey guys is the DB or LP down?
<fabbione> i can't save info on bugs
<fabbione> keep getting Timeout Error
<fabbione> OOPS-268A232
<Ubugtu> https://devpad.canonical.com/~jamesh/oops.cgi/268A232
<crimsun> yeah, I just got OOPS-268C224 and OOPS-268D244
<Ubugtu> https://devpad.canonical.com/~jamesh/oops.cgi/268C224
<Ubugtu> https://devpad.canonical.com/~jamesh/oops.cgi/268D244
<stu1> fabbione: Give it another 10 mins - there is some maintenance work going on that look like it is affecting you.
<fabbione> ok
<fabbione> i find it embarassing since i was pointing a kernel guru to it to help us on something :/
<stu1> Sorry. This should really be done in downtime it looks like. I'm trying to avoid large downtime windows :-(
<fabbione> stu1: ok, but did you announce it on IRC the usual way?
<fabbione> that would have been enough
<stu1> No - I was hoping it wouldn't be noticeable.
<stu1> It was going fine until... erm... 20 mins ago I suspect.
<stu1> fabbione: Should be back to normal now.
<fabbione> thanks
<jamesh> what were you updating?
<fabbione> a bug
<fabbione> oh nevermind
<fabbione> i guess that was for stu1?
<jamesh> (was directed at stub)
<stub> jamesh: Rebuilding indexes - generally pretty fast except for the full text indexes. Unfortunately, I suspect they are the most bloated :-(
<SteveA> morning
<carlos> morning
<jamesh> SteveA: I put my branch that reworks some of the url handling up as work-in-progress
<Ubugtu> New bug: #62213 in ubiquity "Installer crashed - Ubuntu dapper live CD" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/62213
<Ubugtu> New bug: #62221 in ubiquity "installation ubuntu crashed" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/62221
<jamesh> SteveA: it implements the "generic URI" processing as defined in the RFC.
<jamesh> I did up a simple "UriField" type that uses it, which makes it pretty easy to validate the URIs entered into various fields
<SteveA> sounds good
<SteveA> we should have a naming convention for acronyms like this
<SteveA> hsould it be URIField or UriField?
<SteveA> should the class be URL or URI or Url or Uri?
<lifeless> I prefer acronyms in caps
<lifeless> even though it is inconstent with the general guidelines
<jamesh> I usually go for inital cap only -- it avoids all sorts of naming conflicts
<jamesh> "URI" could be the name of a constant
<SteveA> UoRoIo
<jamesh> as for URI vs. URL, these days URL's are defined as the subset of URI's that can be used to locate/access a resource
<SteveA> I think it is useful to have a URL class
<jamesh> XML namespace names are examples of URIs: they are just used as identifiers rather than to look up a resource
<SteveA> it can make code clearer if you're saying that the code is dealing with a URL
<SteveA> and it is what many web app programmers will look for
<SteveA> so, maybe class URL(URI)
<SteveA> I think I prefer all-caps for readability.  What I mean is, I never see "Url" written anywhere.  It looks like someone's name.  Particularly "Uri", which is someone's name.
<SteveA> So, if I'm scanning code for "URI", I'll miss "Uri"
<SteveA> and when I read "Uri", I don't think "oh, universal resource identifier"
<SteveA> in the same way I do when I read URI
<jamesh> fair enough.
<SteveA> You make a good point about the "clash with the constant"
<SteveA> I don't think it will happen all that often, though
<jamesh> I included a find_uris_in_text() helper function in the module too, which will iterate through the URIs in a block of text
<jamesh> should be useful for cleaning up IBugWatchSet.fromText()
<jamesh> and similar.
<jamesh> ignoring from the naming issues for a second, the UriField() lets you specify which schemes are acceptable, and to disallow userinfo, query and fragment parts
<jamesh> disabling userinfo is a good idea for product home pages, to prevent e.g. http://www.ubuntu.com@$IPADDRESS/...
<jamesh> and we can disallow query and fragment parts for Bazaar branch URLs
<SteveA> jamesh: I just read through the URI/URL diff.  I like it.  What do you think about doing an OO version of urljoin?
<jamesh> SteveA: there are resolve() and append() methods for that
<SteveA> ok
<jamesh> e.g. Uri('http://www.gnome.org/start/2.16/').resolve('/about') == Uri('http://www.gnome.org/about')
<SteveA> so, I can use resolve to get a new Uri instance.
<jamesh> append() acts like our urlappend() helper function
<sivang> morning
<SteveA> and resolve ('..') to cut a path segment from the end
<jamesh> yep
<SteveA> if I want to have all my URLs ending in slashes, is there a way to do that?
<jamesh> there is a replace() method too, which can be used to replace particular components
<SteveA> well, I mean, all the URLs I'm processing in some block
<jamesh> with the current methods, you'd need to do something like this:
<jamesh> if not uri.path.endswith('/'): uri = uri.replace(path=uri.path + '/')
<SteveA> I think I'd find methods .slashAtEnd() and .noSlashAtEnd() useful
<SteveA> they'd return a new URI
<SteveA> or maybe the same one, if the URI matches
<SteveA> are URIs notionally immutable?
<jamesh> yeah
<SteveA> ok, great
<jamesh> uri.replace() returns self if called with no arguments, for instance
<jamesh> I'm thinking of removing the normalisation from the constructor though.
<jamesh> The Java URI class has it separate, and it might be useful to not normalise sometimes
* sivang has not had internet access for a week and lost a screen session, if someone msg'd me, re-mg please.
* SteveA tries to think of a use-case for that
<jamesh> http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.4.2/docs/api/java/net/URI.html <- the Java class docs
<SteveA> one use I have for the menus/facets system is to have a URL without the host section
<SteveA> the host section will be taken either from the current request's host
<SteveA> or from the configuration for that particular menu item
<SteveA> depending on the nature of the menu item
<SteveA> I suppose that's easy enough
<jamesh> so they are relative URIs?
<SteveA> we may want to make the Launchpad Request object know its 'launchpad style' URL
<SteveA> so we can use that easily in code
<SteveA> they are sometimes relative URLs, sometimes absolute
<SteveA> sometimes they are relative URLs, but not the usual kind of relative URL
<SteveA> so, for a usual kind of relative URL, you append to the URL, then canonicalize it
<SteveA> so URL + "../foo"
<SteveA> we have another kind, where we might take a url and change its host
<SteveA> or change its host, and the thing at the end
<jamesh> well "/foo" is also a relative URI (that replaces the path component entirely)
<SteveA> for example, https://launchpad.net/foo/bar/baz -> https://features.launchpad.net/foo/bar
<SteveA> or, for a more simple case
<SteveA> for example, https://launchpad.net/foo/bar/baz -> https://features.launchpad.net/foo/bar/baz
<SteveA> another use for the URL stuff is to make the URLs defined in our config files always URL instances.
<SteveA> that way, we'll get rid of some of the assumptions that certain code makes about whether the URLs should be given with or without trailing slashes
<danilos> jordi: hey, now, apart from KDE article response, we need to do a Gnome response article as well ;)
<carlos> jordi: dude, isn't it yet done?...
<ddaa> SteveA: lifeless: jamesh: spiv: meeting in 40 mins
<SteveA> thanks ddaa 
<ddaa> mpool does not appear online though...
<SteveA> I'll be away for 30 mins
<jordi> carlos: it is
<jordi> carlos: I have no access to my home box now though, wireless is down again apparently
<jordi> danilos: I saw that. :)
<carlos> ok, send it for review when you are back at home
<carlos> jordi: pretty please... :-D
<jordi> danilos: still, it's the same guy we answered in rosett-ausers already
<jordi> carlos: once my sight is back in place, yeah :)
<danilos> jordi: yeah, I know, but the biggest complainer is Benoit
<jordi> I mean, many of their concerns are real problems, but we've answered them already.
<jordi> danilos: essential docs will need a section on this
<danilos> jordi: definitely, much work to do on that front
<carlos> in fact 
<jordi> the "upstream diff" filter would really help.
<carlos> the problem with the credit removals is more related with our teams
<carlos> due a bug in our side (single line for the credit list)
<jordi> yeah
<carlos> I have already fixed in my TranslationReview branch
<carlos> all entries are textareas
<carlos> now
<carlos> the 'funny' thing is that they assume that we change that credit entry by default... and it's just one team who did it (or a couple of them)
<carlos> anyway.... we need to fix this kind of issue once per all...
<Kream> anyone happen to know how I can translate ubiquity-frontend-kde and -gtk?
<danilos> carlos: and we need to document all this! and point people complaining there!
<carlos> Kream: you should translate debian-installer
<carlos> Kream: it includes ubiquity's strings
<Kream> thanks, carlos :)
<carlos> Kream: you are welcome
<danilos> and it's especially strange for me since people on gnome-i18n are waiting for GTP spokespersons to say what they have, and now I have to discuss things from both POVs
<carlos> danilos: menthos already answered (in a good way)
<danilos> carlos: yeah, but I probably have more info on both views on the problem ;)
<carlos> danilos: I think you should not answer that thread unless someone asks you directly
<carlos> because you are in a bad situation ;-)
<carlos> oh, well, if you think you can give an answer
<danilos> carlos: yeah, probably, but I feel like I am not doing my thing as GTP if I don't, so it really, really sucks :(
<carlos> that doesn't breaks your GTP position or Rosetta one, that's fine for me (I mean with any other email that follows yours)
<carlos> danilos: then go ahead, what I mean is that don't feel that you need to answer that thread if you really don't want to, jordi and I could handle it
<carlos> if you feel confident answering it, go ahead
<carlos> well, confident is not the right term... perhaps ... if you feel 'happy' 
<carlos> anyway, jordi, would be possible to have your KDE answer ready this afternoon in a wiki page and as a general answer so we can point GNOME's thread to it?
<jordi> yes
<jordi> I mean, it's a matter of pasting it once I have access to it
<carlos> danilos: Should I leave it in your hands then?
<danilos> carlos: sure, I am fine with that
<carlos> ok, thanks
<SteveA> _thumper_: if you're interested, there's a bzr-launchpad-coordination meeting in progress on #launchpad-meeting
<_thumper_> SteveA, cheers
<lifeless> review emeting in 40 minutes
<lifeless> spiv: and you have a late! branch
<spiv> lifeless: I know :(
<spiv> lifeless: It's half-done, it will be done tonight.
<spiv> (although not quite in time for the meeting...)
<Mithrandir> any launchpad admins about?  I need to freeze edgy.
<lifeless> yes
<lifeless> tell me where to go
<Mithrandir> probably somewhere around launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/edgy
<Mithrandir> but it's not exposed in the UI if you can't freeze it, AFAIK, so I don't know.
<Mithrandir> that is, I can't change the status, since it seems to require LP admin powers.
<lifeless> what does 'freeze' translate to ? disable all buildds ?
<lifeless> release status -> pre-release-freeze ?
<Mithrandir> sounds correct, yes.
<Mithrandir> it doesn't disable the buildds, no.  It makes all uploads to main have to go through by-hand approval
<lifeless> ok, I have no idea if its just a toggle switch. Blame be on your head :)
<lifeless> done
<Mithrandir> seems frozen now, thanks.
<lifeless> meeting in 8 minutes
<lifeless> ^ reviewer^
<lifeless> meeting in 3
<lifeless> reviewer meeting time
<lifeless> == Agenda ==
<lifeless>  * Roll call
<lifeless>  * Queue status.
<lifeless> == Roll call ==
<lifeless> I am here
<BjornT> here
<spiv> here
<jamesh> here
<lifeless> == Queue status ==
<lifeless> 5 open reviews, all but one are under 2 days - excellent condition. spiv has one at 10 days - whats up there?
<spiv> lifeless: I suck.
<spiv> I'm doing it right now.
<lifeless> was the cause something we can try to prevent ?
<spiv> I don't think so.  I forgot to check my review daily, but I've got the relevant tab open in my browser now, and that should be enough to remind me each morning.
<lifeless> ok
<lifeless> Any other business ?
<lifeless> 5
<lifeless> 4
<lifeless> 3
<lifeless> 2
<lifeless> 1
<lifeless> thanks for coming, see you on the 2nd
<SteveA> I was here
<SteveA> in spirit, anyway
<lifeless> SteveA: heh, its already been minuted ;)
<lifeless> gnight all :)
<spiv> lifeless: g'night
<spiv> lifeless: I have some smart HTTP client stuff working, btw.
* spiv -> break
<cprov> good morning, guys
<carlos> cprov: morning dude!
<carlos> cprov: did you talk with Ian this weekend?
<cprov> carlos: yes, I did 
<carlos> cprov: ok, then you are aware of the broken links at https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/dpkg , right?
<cprov> carlos: yes, bug #60440
<carlos> ok
<cprov> carlos: but thanks for remember me. Did you have time to think about how to fix i-f-p ?
<carlos> Well, I have already another script that calls that code
<carlos> to do the incremental copy
<carlos> so I guess is just a matter of fixing tests and update some comments there
<carlos> so we can stop using i-f-p
<cprov> carlos: great ! I'll work on the soyuz part today. Do you have any ETA for landing it in RF ?
<carlos> cprov: how urgent is that?
<carlos> I guess it's a matter of having it done before Edgy + 1 opening
<carlos> but I don't remember when are we supposed to do it
<cprov> carlos: distro-team will be blocked on it for edgy+1
<carlos> anyway, it should be quite fast
<carlos> I will try to handle it this week
<cprov> carlos: I don't remeber dates too, but yes, it should be soon (few weeks ?)
<carlos> it shouldn't conflict with your work as it will mean one code line removal from soyuz code
<cprov> carlos: great dude ! thank you 
<carlos> np
<SteveA> jamesh: ping, around still?
<jamesh> SteveA: yeah
<SteveA> jamesh: couple of things
<SteveA> first, ddaa will mail you about asking you to help update some of our code to work with bzr 0.11
<SteveA> do you have space on your todo list for this?
<jamesh> okay
<jamesh> I've got a few other things, but should be able to fit that in
<SteveA> second, I want to find out what our svn bindings need to do.  would you take a look and see how much of an API to subversion we need, so we can evaluate what we should do about fixing bindings or whatever?
<jamesh> will need to start on the scheduler changes Mark mentioned in London some time soon
<SteveA> the second thing isn't an urgent thing at all
<jamesh> okay
<SteveA> but will be helpful for planning maintenance of supermirror stuff
* danilos -> lunch
<SteveA> _thumper_: for this meeting in London, will you commute into Earls Court from your home?
<_thumper_> SteveA: yes
<SteveA> ok, great
* ddaa has just booked tickets for london
<SteveA> ddaa: please confirm with clan your arrival and departure dates, for accommodation
<ddaa> SteveA: sent
* ddaa -> lunch
<SteveA> ta
<xerxas> hi 
<xerxas> there a launchpad admin here ? 
<xerxas> can I remove a branch ? 
<xerxas> i uploaded 2 times the same branch 
<xerxas> for the same package 
<xerxas> https://launchpad.net/people/telepathy/+branch/pymsn/ubuntu and https://launchpad.net/people/telepathy/+branch/telepathy-butterfly/ubuntu or pretty much the same stuff 
<xerxas> they are both telepathy-btterfly , instead of one being pymsn
<elmo> salgado: ping
<salgado> elmo, pong
<elmo> salgado: the mirror checker appears to be on some bad crack - it's claiming france telecom is a week behind.  I can't figure out why (the mirror checker thinks so), but it's definitely not
<elmo> salgado: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+mirror/oleane-ubuntu-packages  <- that specifically
<salgado> elmo, it looks like some files (i.e. http://ftp.oleane.net/ubuntu/pool/main/m/mozilla-thunderbird/mozilla-thunderbird-typeaheadfind_1.5.0.7-0ubuntu0.6.06_powerpc.deb) were not mirrored when the prober ran, and the last published package on one of the pockets that files were missing seems to be from one week ago, causing the status of one or more pockets to be one week behind, thus making us use it as the status for the mirror itself
<salgado> this problem should be alleviated once we start running the prober multiple times a day
<elmo> salgado: hmm
<elmo> salgado: could you have the mirror prober log file include the date + time it ran?
<salgado> elmo, sure, that should be trivial. can you file a bug so I don't forget it?
<elmo> salgado: and the fundamental problem doesn't seem to be that we're not running the prober multiple times a day, but that the granularity of the check for dapper is way off?
<elmo> in that I think it really means "missing files from today" rather than "out of date by a week"?
<elmo> anyway, I'll file some bugs
<salgado> elmo, well, if the only file I found there is from one week ago, all I can tell for sure is that it was updated one week ago
<elmo> salgado: yeah, but that's clearly not true in this case, _edgy_ is up-to-date
<elmo> doing this kind of check on dapper doesn't make much sense to me
<elmo> not to this level of fascism
<salgado> elmo, so, let's assume last edgy published package is from 6 hours ago, and that file is already mirrored, causing edgy to have a status of up to date. should the status for dapper be 6 hours behind or up to date, even though the last published package in dapper hasn't been mirrored yet?
<elmo> salgado: sorry, phone bbiab
* carlos -> lunch
<carlos> later!
<lucasvo> hasn't there been a "Bounties" section in launchpad?
<doko_>  carlos: when do you expect the openoffice.org 2.0.4~rc2-1ubuntu6 translations be imported in rosetta?
<carlos> doko_: well, the system is still importing its .po files
<carlos> doko_: the help ones take near 20 minutes to complete...
<carlos> doko_: seems like there are around 850 entries pending to be imported
<carlos> so let's say that I don't think it will be ready today...
<jamesh> ddaa: I added some notes to bug 39015: I think we can implement it with current Bazaar without putting excessive load on the webapp
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 39015 in launchpad-bazaar "redirect from branch/.bzr" [Wishlist,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/39015
<bradb> matsubara: Re: the "bounty" tag suggestion, fwiw, if you have to ask "it'll come back someday, won't it?" in the tag description, we don't need the tag, IMHO. :P
<matsubara> bradb: well, the point is, if it'll come back, it's better to group those bugs, if it won't then it doesn't matter and I can reject the bugs.
<SteveA> it will come back, in a somewhat different form.  I think it's good to retain the information that it is a bounty-system related bug.
<SteveA> but I think we shouldn't have a keyword that may be confused with "there is a bounty offered to fix this bug"
<SteveA> which is what most people would expect "bounty" to mean
<bradb> yeah, perhaps
<matsubara> good point SteveA. bounty-system sounds like a good tag.
<SteveA> matsubara: will kiko be around today?
<matsubara> SteveA: I think so. Want me to call him?
<SteveA> I just tried, but thanks
<stub> bradb: Are you using staging for testing that branch still?
<bradb> stub: yeah
<stub> ok
<kiko-zzz> yawn
<jordi> carlos, danilo[bbl] : ping
<carlos> jordi: pong
<jordi> apparently, my pupils are back into normal operation
<carlos> jordi: you had that bug again?
<jordi> carlos: nope, I had blurry vision all day because I had my pupils dilated
<jordi> I had my retina checked out at the hospital
<carlos> jordi: drugs?
<carlos> :-P
* carlos hides
<jordi> I've been werairng sunglasses inside the buildings all day :)
<jordi> carlos: heh
<jordi> I wish ;=
<jordi> :)
<jordi> https://launchpad.canonical.com/RosettaKdeCollaboration
<jordi> vision still gets tired when I look at the monitor for a few minutes
<jordi> too bright, I guess
<carlos> jordi: give them more time..
<jordi> I wanted to post this at least
<carlos> yeah
<jordi> besides, an addict like me may fall in the trap and have more drugs, and we'd be at the beginning again
<carlos> :-P
<elmo> ok, SERIOUSLY
<elmo> in malone: click on "add a comment", start writing a comment, realise you want to change the status, click the affects / +editstatus link, make changes, click "save changes".  notice how your carefully typed comment has been EATEN
<elmo> is that a known bug?
<flacoste> elmo: it is
<elmo> ok
<flacoste> elmo: bug #57607
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 57607 in mdadm "Root on raid fails to boot" [Untriaged,Fix released]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/57607
<flacoste> elmo: oops, wrong number, it's bug #57715
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 57715 in malone "Lost comments on bug #57607" [Untriaged,Needs info]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/57715
* flacoste is going offline for lunch
<kiko-fud> salgado, I fixed the conflict and repushed fwiw
<Ubugtu> New bug: #62335 in soyuz "should be able to reset builds in chroot "problem" state" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/62335
<Ubugtu> New bug: #62344 in launchpad "Code to create Person entries should be moved outside of MessageSet.fromEmail()" [Low,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/62344
<mpt> Gooooooooooooooooooood morning Launchpadders!
<kiko> hey mpt 
<kiko> I was looking at your fix for bug 46 or so
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 46 in rosetta ""special symbols" when people copy-paste text from original to translation" [High,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/46
<kiko> mpt, are the quotes around the icons actually useful?
<Ubugtu> New bug: #62357 in malone "Display more info in attachment links" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/62357
<Ubugtu> New bug: #62358 in rosetta "Identify packages that need review on Rosetta" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/62358
<mpt> kiko, it makes the page slightly more understandable if you have images turned off
<kiko> mpt, why don't you put the quotes in the alt text though?
<mpt> hmm
<kiko> I mean, if it's only for non-image rendering..
<mpt> that might work
<mpt> ok, I'll do that
<kiko> mpt, cool!
<kiko> mpt, btw, what happens when somebody cut-n-pastes that image?
<mpt> In Gecko or KHTML/Webkit, they get the alt= text
<mpt> In other browsers, they get nothing
<mpt> So the alt text for the newline character is ""
<mpt> and the space character is actually a background image for a real space character.
<kiko> mpt, does that work well?
<mpt> yes
<mpt> It works in Gecko, KHTML/Webkit, Trident, Presto
<kiko> cool then.
#launchpad 2006-09-26
<Ubugtu> New bug: #62375 in launchpad "_dynarch_top.DynarchMenu has no properties" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/62375
<kiko> mpt, if you like, I can do that removal for you..
<jamesh> so, I have a branch now where I'd be able to do "bzr branch https://launchpad/products/bzr" and it would do the right thing
<jamesh> without putting too much stress on the app server
<kiko> jamesh, that is so cool!
<kiko> I have.. errr.. a branch which is half-broken which intends to refactor translations :-(
<jamesh> it is possible that implementing the "lp:" URI scheme could be done in a similar fashion
<jamesh> rather than relying on special redirection handling in bzr
<kiko> well..
<kiko> yeah, ISWYM. lp: would still need handling in bzr of course
<kiko> but it could be dead simple and launchpad would do the redirecting necessary
<kiko> quite cool actually
<jamesh> kiko: I know, but the lp: transport could just serve up branch branch references, which would work even with bzr-0.8
<jamesh> as a plugin
<jamesh> the solution I worked out is to use a branch reference, similar to what you get from "bzr checkout --lightweight"
<kiko> yeah, I saw your email. pretty ingenious if I may say so
<kiko> anyway, time to hit the z-factory
<Ubugtu> New bug: #62387 in soyuz "Modify the HTML code in Soyuz paget to be friendly for pagetest-helpers" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/62387
<ryanakca> IntegrityError
<ryanakca> A server error occurred.
<ryanakca> When accessing https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/kdeutils/+bug/58049/+upstreamtask in mozilla firefox
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 58049 in kdeutils "Kgpg crashes when I sign/verify clipboard" [Untriaged,Confirmed]  
<jamesh> what data did you enter into the form?
<ryanakca> jamesh: kdebase    and    http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=129267
<Ubugtu> KDE bug 129267 in general "Kgpg editor crashes when decrypting" [Crash,New]  
<jamesh> did you get an OOPS number?
<ryanakca> nope
<ryanakca> just the two lines above...
<mpt> ryanakca, did you enter the whole bugs.kde.org URL, or just the bug number?
<ryanakca> whole URL
* ryanakca wonders if he's being ignorant
<mpt> ryanakca, at the moment you need to enter just the bug number
<jamesh> so you entered "kdebase" into the product field, clicked "link to a remote bug", chose "KDE bug tracker" from the list box and typed "129267 into the remote bug box?
<mpt> We should accept the whole URL, but we don't yet
<ryanakca> kk, fixed, thanks
<jamesh> we should definitely have something better than "integrity error" if you enter a URL there ...
<ryanakca> yes... :)
<ryanakca> it's confusing... maybe a "We're sorry, but we do not accept URL's at the moment, please..." page
<Ubugtu> New bug: #62393 in malone "Should be able to add a bug watch by entering the URL" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/62393
<ryanakca> yippeee
<ryanakca> lol, thanks mpt *heads off to bed*
<jamesh> lifeless: do you see any problems with the implementation of this branch? https://devpad.canonical.com/~jamesh/pending-reviews/jamesh/launchpad/bug-39015/full-diff
<jamesh> lifeless: it makes Launchpad URLs that could represent a branch usable with bzr
<lifeless> I shall read on the train home - is that ok ?
<jamesh> sure.
<jamesh> It seems to work well here.  I am mainly wondering if it is the kind of thing Bazaar developers wouldn't want us doing
<lifeless> oh I see
<lifeless> yeah, please do an HTTP Redirect, not a simulated format.
<jamesh> will that still result in bzr hitting the webapp for every request?
<lifeless> no
<lifeless> maybe today, but its on the TODO to fix redirect handling
<jamesh> what do you think of using it as a temporary solution?  Switching over to redirecting .../.bzr would involve changing browser/branchref.py
<mpt> danilos, ping
<mpt> danilos, unping
<mpt> jamesh, ping
<jamesh> mpt: pong
<lifeless> jamesh: we're discussing it now in rl
<jamesh> lifeless: thanks
<mpt> jamesh, I've done a very foolish thing and tried once more to change something in some Python code
<mpt> but I think whatever I'm doing wrong must be fairly simple
<mpt> one moment, I'll pastebin the diff
<mpt> jamesh, https://devpad.canonical.com/~andrew/paste/file4ae6ux.html
<mpt> (this is to fix bug 56570 in the way requested by sabdfl)
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 56570 in rosetta ""You are not an official translator" should be informational, not warning" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/56570
<mpt> I get "AssertionError: Can't index with type <type 'str'>. (Must be unicode.)"
<jamesh> mpt: one small stylistic note: rather than doing "if CONDITION: return True else: return False", just do "return CONDITION"
<mpt> heh, that's what I had first :-)
<mpt> I made it more explicit in case the shorthand was the problem
<jamesh> mpt: are you sure it shouldn't be "not: view/user_is_official_translator" ?
<mpt> That, also, I had originally
<mpt> That gives a TraveralError instead of an AssertionError
<mpt> TraversalError, rather
<mpt> It seems like it should be view/, I agree
<jamesh> you've added a method in browser/pomsgset.py, but are using that method in pofile-translate.pt
<jamesh> are you sure the view class you modified is the one being used by the page template?
<jamesh> when you do "foo/bar" in a TAL expression, it will try looking up bar as foo.bar and foo['bar']  in Python code
<jamesh> IPOFile implements __getitem__(), which is where the assertion error would be coming from
<mpt> class="canonical.launchpad.browser.POFileTranslateView"
<jamesh> pofile['user_is_official_translator'] 
<mpt> so this should be in pofile.py
<jamesh> probably.
<mpt> in class POFileTranslateView(), no less
<jamesh> yep
<mpt> Is there any rule for the order in which to put functions in a class?
<mpt>  /guideline
<jamesh> no general rule.  It is good to group related methods together though, and have __init__ at the top
<spiv> mpt: consistent with existing ordering, which might be roughly grouped by logical function, or alphabetical.  Or random :/
<mpt> Here the @properties seem to be grouped
<jamesh> then follow the existing style
<mpt> ok, now in POFileTranslateView(), but still a TraveralError
<lifeless> jamesh: what url is recorded as the parent when you branch using this.
<jamesh> lifeless: the bazaar.launchpad.net one
<mpt> ahhhhh-haaaa
<mpt> lifeless, PQM claims that the time is 05:23 UTC, when it's actually 04:23
<jamesh> mpt: it is using daylight savings UTC
<mpt> I thought UTC was immune to that sort of nonsense
<jamesh> it is
<jamesh> it is probably displaying local time and mislabeling it as UTC
<mpt> ok, spiv, want to volunteer for a five-minute review? (perhaps I've pestered jamesh too much today)
<stub> lifeless: https://devpad.canonical.com/~andrew/paste/filem2ViBA.html
<lifeless> stub: huh
<lifeless> stub: did you do an uncommit or something ?
<stub> Nope
<stub> Just what you see there
<stub> Well... rsynced a copy of rocketfuel-built in there first to prime the tree
<lifeless> hmm
<lifeless> poolie: can you chat with stub about how to track the cause of this down ?
<poolie> stub: can you give me some context?
<poolie> oh, that paste link before?
<stub> I need to rollout new launchpad code, using the trunk as of last Thursday as a basis. I managed to create the branch, but I cannot pull --overwrite it into a tree built from HEAD
<stub> poolie: yes
<stub> poolie: The process worked fine last rollout, about three weeks ago
<stub> Maybe a bit more - I think devs were using bzr 0.9 at that point so it might be a 1.0 issue?
<mpt> jamesh, do you have time for a 5-minute review?
<poolie> stub: and what do you mean you rsync'd in there?
<stub> We have a tree built containing a branch of launchpad HEAD, along with all the other necessary branches such as zope, sqlobject etc.
<stub> I  rsynced that in place
<poolie> what does bzr st in that directory do?
<poolie> can you do 'bzr log --show-ids |less' in the destination and tell me if that revision id is present?
<stub> bzr st gives no output
<stub> pqm@balleny:~/production/launchpad$ bzr log --show-ids
<stub> bzr: ERROR: Branch KnitRepository(u'/home/pqm/production/launchpad/.bzr/') has no revision pqm@pqm.ubuntu.com-20060926041927-ad64e43333dd568a
<stub> I'm going to rsync in a fresh copy of the tree
<jamesh> mpt: okay
<mpt> jamesh, https://devpad.canonical.com/~andrew/paste/filefkpSTE.html
<stub> poolie, lifeless: Don't worry. A fresh sync of the tree has fixed things. I must have synced it when the tree was being rebuilt, or we temporarily had a screwed tree.
<poolie> ok
<jamesh> stub: any reason not to use sftp when going between data centre machines?
<stub> jamesh: Because I need a built tree, not a branch
<jamesh> okay
<stub> config_manager might work on balleny now, but rsync is generally fine.
<stub> jamesh: Do you recall where the OOPS id matching code lives that is used to hyperlink them?
<jamesh> stub: lib/canonical/launchpad/webapp/tales.py
<jamesh> in the fmt:text-to-html code
<stub> Got it
<jamesh> mpt: the branch looks fine.  Do you think there is any need to highlight the message at all (e.g. an info icon?)
<stub> Bah. There is no word break escape in posix regular expressions :-(
<stub> Oh... there it is. \m
<jamesh> \b matches the boundary
<jamesh> between alphanumeric and non-alphanumeric
<mpt> jamesh, not really, I'm trying to confine use of the info icon to cases where something interesting has just happened
<jamesh> mpt: fair enough.  The branch looks fine to merge.
<mpt> thanks jamesh 
<mpt> lifeless, PQM has fallen over
<stub> jamesh: I get a test failure with your cherry pick request. How urgent is that fix?
<SteveA> morning
<stub> yo
<jamesh> stub: we've been having some performance problems with the branch puller, so wanted to get some idea of what branches the time was being spent on
<stub> Failure in test_bzrsync
<jamesh> stub: currently it doesn't do any logging (other than sending status info back to the authserver)
<jamesh> I didn't touch test_bzrsync in that revision ...
<jamesh> ah.  kiko found a bug in that test that showed up after some sqlobject changes he made
<stub> https://devpad.canonical.com/~andrew/paste/file0N3olS.html
<SteveA> and he didn't revert the changes?
<stub> Hmm...
<SteveA> does that mean we can't check in via pqm to RF/launchpad/devel now?
<jamesh> SteveA: if stub is using head sqlobject with old launchpad, I guess he'd run into the problem.
<SteveA> I see, so launchpad head + sqlobject head works
<stub> I'll revert SQLObject a revision
<jamesh> stub: I'll see if kiko's fix is self contained ...
<jamesh> stub: looks like r4091 has the fix for that test failure
<jamesh> and nothing else
<stub> pqm back on line - production branch tests all passing
<SteveA> yay
<stub> Launchpad will be going down in 15 minutes for a regular code update. Estimated down time is one hour. This is longer than usual to perform some extra database maintenance.
<carlos> morning
<SteveA> hi carlos
<stub> jamesh: product-release-finder.py should be enabled in production?
<jamesh> stub: not yet
<stub> k
<jamesh> there are a few more small things to fix
<yvesd> hello, when will launchpad be back again ?
<danilos> yvesd: 8:55 <stub> Launchpad will be going down in 15 minutes for a regular code update. Estimated down time is one hour. This is longer than usual to perform some extra database maintenance.
<stub> Couple more mins
<yvesd> thank you danilos :)
<danilos> np ;)
<stub> Launchpad is back up
<yvesd> cool, works :)
<stub> soyuz is still down - I'll wait a tick until malcc shows up and he can confirm it should still be running with the old code.
<SteveA> jamesh: I just deleted the email with your review of kiko's recent selectAlso changes
<SteveA> but I have a comment about it
<jamesh> oh?
<SteveA> how about a standard helper function called uniq_list
<SteveA> that encapsulates getting a list of stuff in the same order as an input sequence
<SteveA> but omitting duplicates
<SteveA> it's the kind of thing I'd hope to find in python's itertools, actually
<SteveA> but there is no such thing
<SteveA> it could as easily be an iterator
<jamesh> sounds useful
<SteveA> but I don't think we need it as an iterator
<jamesh> it probably isn't in itertools because it effectively requires you to build up a set of previously seen data
<_thumper_> could be a simple generator with stored set state
<SteveA> yes
<SteveA> you'd want ideally to be able to supply a function
<SteveA> that gets a suitable memo of an object
<jamesh> I think all the existing itertools helpers' memory usage isn't dependent on the number of items in the iterator
<SteveA> for our sqlobjects, it would be its id, or in somecases (class, id)
<jamesh> effectively the same as the "key" argument to sort/sorted
<SteveA> jamesh: itertools.cycle depends on the number of items in the iterator
<SteveA> as it needs to store them
<SteveA> yes, same as the key
<jamesh> so it does.
<SteveA> _thumper_: yes, could be a simple generator, as in http://docs.python.org/lib/itertools-functions.html examples
<_thumper_> it does depend on your complexity and storage constraints though
<_thumper_> I really should be working :(
<sivang> morning
<matthewrevell> morning!
<sivang> matthewrevell: hi
<SteveA> spiv: nice https://devpad.canonical.com/~andrew/paste/fileywRJCw.html
<SteveA> I had no idea it was so much the same as svn
<KeithWeissha> how do i close my launchpad account
<stub> malcc: Should I update dreschers code, or restart soyuz using the existing code?
<Ubugtu> New bug: #62423 in launchpad "The 'appoint driver' form is broken for projects" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/62423
<jamesh> BjornT: ping?
<BjornT> jamesh: pong
<jamesh> BjornT: I was looking at moving the $productseries/+source form over to the form machinary
<jamesh> BjornT: one of the things that the form does is enable or disable some input boxes based on the value of a radio button
<ddaa> jamesh: that cleanup would be great
<jamesh> formlib doesn't seem to like it when no data is passed back for a form value (which happens when the widget has been disabled)
<ddaa> this page scares me
<jamesh> do you know of a way to handle that?
<ddaa> jamesh: did the mail about "Landing bzr-0.11 on rocketfuel" catch your attention?
<Ubugtu> New bug: #62425 in launchpad-support-tracker "Users should be able to change source package" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/62425
<jamesh> ddaa: yeah
<BjornT> jamesh: i'm not sure why that check is in getWidgetsData at all. i see three different option; 1) talk to upstream about removing the check 2) write our own getWidgetsData 3) filter out all widgets that don't have any input before calling getWidgetsData
<BjornT> the third is probaby simplest for now
<fabbione> stub: ping?
<fabbione> did launchpad eat all the uploads that have been done during the downtime?
<BjornT> jamesh: when filtering out widgets that don't have input, you'd have to add errors for those widgets that are required, though.
<jamesh> BjornT: good point.
* BjornT -> lunch
<SteveA> fabbione: that would be a question for malcc 
<SteveA> or cprov-ZzZ 
<SteveA> ddaa: we should talk over those bugs you mentioned in the meeting yesterday
<Kamion> Did the LP update and database maintenance from today go normally?
<stub> fabbione: pong
<Kamion> Because drescher is acting very weirdly, and it's not clear that the deployment was completed
<fabbione> stub: what Kamion says
<fabbione> SteveA: ok thanks.. Kamion found everything :)
<ddaa> SteveA: sure
<stub> Kamion: drescher has not yet been updated - I'm waiting on malcc to determine if the code needs to be updated, and if so if the main branch is good.
<Kamion> stub: well, package removals aren't working due to a permission error on BinaryPackagePublishing
<Kamion> so either it needs to be updated, or it's just broken
<stub> Could be either
<ddaa> SteveA:  bug 50569 has been taken by jamesh, as it's the one that's blocking PRF
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 50569 in launchpad-bazaar "the product series page does not allow entering source or ftp details for projects without SVN or VCS" [High,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/50569
<SteveA> okay
<ddaa> SteveA: bug 46240 is caused by the source-package input on the +source page not understanding that empty string means "ignore that"
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 46240 in launchpad-bazaar "posting $series/+source yields a confusing warning" [High,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/46240
<ddaa> should probably be fixed by just removing that input from this form, I see no reason for it being there
<ddaa> there is already a separate form to associate a sourcepackage to a productseries
<SteveA> right
<SteveA> so it is old, from the original VCS imports days
<ddaa> SteveA: bug 2649 is about the cvsbranch input, that's confusing most users, and which is redundant anyway since we do not support anything but MAIN
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 2649 in launchpad-bazaar "CVS branch details should not be editable or displayed." [High,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/2649
<SteveA> ok, I agree with that.  we shouldn't encourage expectations we can't fulfil
<SteveA> who will fix 46240?
<ddaa> it's not even that, most users do not even understand what a cvs branch is
<SteveA> who will fix 2649?
<jamesh> ddaa: currently the +source form essentially gets locked once a vcs-import is started.  Can you think of any reason why we'd want to lock releaseroot/releasefileglob in that case?
<ddaa> jamesh: absolutely no reason
<ddaa> jamesh: except that this page was virtually written by a million monkeys
<jamesh> then I'll definitely move it over to the main edit form
<ddaa> SteveA: those bugs are not assigned yet, taken in isolation they are not hard to fix.
<SteveA> can they be fixed in isolation?
<ddaa> sure, they are meaningful incremental improvements
<SteveA> what would you think about doing one today, and one tomorrow?
<SteveA> I can review for you immediately
<ddaa> can do that
<SteveA> ok
<SteveA> next bug... bug 48813
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 48813 in launchpad-bazaar "Efficiently mirroring sftp hosted branches with minimal latency" [High,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/48813
<ddaa> SteveA: this specific bug refers to a number of improvements to the supermirror
* SteveA reads
<ddaa> things like: defining Branch.pull_now, sftp server and importd setting Branch.pull_now, branch scanner being able to receive messages for immediate mirroring, handling branches that are being created
<SteveA> is this causing a problem right now?
<ddaa> there are sporadic reports of sftp branches not being mirrored, or being mirrored too slow
<ddaa> it's more of a placeholder to mean "we need to fix sftp mirroring"
<SteveA> ok, later
<SteveA> maybe we should do this at the same time as installing the smartserver?
<SteveA> would that make sense?
<ddaa> it's quite essential IMO, but not easy
<ddaa> Mh...
<SteveA> sure it is essential.  but is it urgent?
<ddaa> I think it is.
<SteveA> tell me the steps required to fix it
* ddaa reads the bug to refresh memory
<ddaa> mh, I think that bug was not well chosen to convey what I think is urgent
<malcc> stub: Sorry. Yes, update drescher's code
<SteveA> ddaa: ok.  what do you think is urgent?
<stub> malcc: ok
<ddaa> SteveA: When people think "this sftp branch is not being mirrored", give them the ability to understand the problem. Also give us the ability to see which sftp branches have problems.
<ddaa> The same applies to importd, but it's less important.
<ddaa> One issue here is that some issues cause the branch puller to crash and burn.
<ddaa> And not report the error.
<ddaa> One way to fix it would be to spawn a subprocess and capture its input, so when it crashes and burn, we always have something to display.
<SteveA> what do we do now?
<ddaa> We should also display the last mirror attempt date, the last successful mirror date, the next scheduled mirror time.
<SteveA> I'm confused by what you mean by "sftp branch being mirrored"
<SteveA> I don't see how that could fail
<ddaa> SteveA: I mean branch puller copying the data from the sftp area to the http-published aread.
<SteveA> how could that fail?
<ddaa> SteveA: bad branch data, internal service failures
<Ubugtu> New bug: #62428 in soyuz "can't remove packages any more" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/62428
<SteveA> so, if I have a branch, I can mangle my branch, sftp it up, and then get a problem at this stage
<ddaa> SteveA: that's the least likely scenario, but it's valid
<SteveA> what is more likely?
<malcc> fabbione: A bunch of uploads this morning are waiting to be processed once the deployment is finished, they haven't been lost
<ddaa> SteveA: bad branch data of some sort. But one issue is that sometimes we see that a branch is not being mirrored, and we have no idea why.
<ddaa> bzrlib in some cases will produce data that it cannot pull. I had it once with importd.
<SteveA> the point of my example was
<SteveA> that I upload bad branch data
<SteveA> not that I maliciously break the data
<ddaa> SteveA: ha, okay. Then yes. That's an important case.
<SteveA> so, when you said "that's the least likely scenario" then
<stub> Kamion: Code has been updated, so things might work now
<SteveA> did you mean "my breaking my data on purpose" is
<ddaa> yes
<SteveA> or did you mean "my uploading bad data" is?
<ddaa> "breaking data on purpose and putting it manually on the sftp server"
<SteveA> ok
<SteveA> so, is there any circumstance where someone uploads bad data, and the mirroring fails, and we have an idea why?
<ddaa> SteveA: nope
<SteveA> ok, so when you said "But one issue is that sometimes we see that a branch is not being mirrored, and we have no idea why.
<Kamion> stub: yes, it's fine now - thanks
<SteveA> "
<SteveA> you mean that actually whenever a branch is not being mirrored, we have no idea why
<ddaa> SteveA: sometimes we have an error report
<SteveA> does the mirroring process produce any kind of a log?
<SteveA> why only sometime?
<SteveA> that seems strange to me, to sometimes get an error report, and sometimes not
<ddaa> because the "bzr pull" operation is done in-process in the branch-puller, and lifeless insisted that on any unknown error we just bail out
<SteveA> just bail out?
<ddaa> so when an unknown error happens, we do not put the error in the database
<SteveA> or bail out, but log something first
<SteveA> do errors normally end up in the database
<SteveA> ?
<ddaa> There are different logging here: the one that gets sent to launchpad-error-reports, and the one that gets put in the db for users to see.
<SteveA> so, when you say "we have no idea why" you mean "we need to look through launchpad-error-reports to find out why" ?
<ddaa> "just bail out" means "let the error bubble up, do not write anything to the db"
<ddaa> SteveA: ideally, we would find the data here. But the last time j-a-meinel reported a branch was not being mirrored nothing was even in launchpad-error-reports.
<ddaa> When I say "no idea why" I mean exactly that.
<SteveA> ok
<SteveA> so we have a number of problems here
<SteveA> 1. sometimes we have a failure in the system, but no record of that failure
<SteveA> we should fix that very soon
<SteveA> otherwise, we have no way of measuring our progress or our service level
<SteveA> 2. we have a system that takes user input (in the form of branch data), and can fail while dealing with that user input, without giving any indication to the user that their input was faulty
<jamesh> ddaa: stub cherry picked the branch puller logging patch
<SteveA> our systems should not do that.  if we have user input, and we can't deal with that user input, then we need to tell the user about it
<SteveA> because only the user can fix that
<SteveA> now, this can sometimes be a fault in our system that causes the user data to fail to be handled
<SteveA> but even then, it is a production cycle before we can fix it
<SteveA> so, relative to the system in production, it is still the user that needs to deal with it
<SteveA> maybe by filing a bug or support request
<SteveA> ddaa: what do we have to do to fix these two problems?
<ddaa> 1. no: I do not think we even have a good definition of the service level we aim at
<SteveA> ddaa: I'm not talking about aiming at a particular service level
<SteveA> I'm saying that with the system as it is, we can't even say "we achieve XXX level of service"
<SteveA> because we're losing error reports
<SteveA> so we just can't know
<SteveA> that's what I want fixed
<ddaa> I think I understand, but I'm not sure how to formulate that.
<SteveA> think of the OOPS system in launchpad
<SteveA> if there's a problem loading a page in the webapp, there is an OOPS report generated on the filesystem
<SteveA> and we have a reliable system for getting these onto a central location
<SteveA> and being analyzed daily
<SteveA> there are very few classes of error that will cause no OOPS to be generated
<ddaa> ddaa.nicotin ++
<SteveA> and these classes of error occur very rarely
<SteveA> how it works is the "render a page in response to a request" code has a big try: except: around it
<SteveA> and if there is an exception, an OOPS report is generated
<SteveA> now, can we do something equivalent, maybe not so fancy, for the imports/ mirroring?
<SteveA> thinnk about it over your cigarette break
<ddaa> I think we can do it by spawning a subprocess for each branch
<SteveA> ping me after your cigarette break
<SteveA> I need to get a drink of something, because I ate too much chili for lunch
<ddaa> I had an argument with lifeless about the "big exception catchall", and letting the branch puller go on in almost any case, but he strongly opposed that.
<ddaa> SteveA: okay, ping me when the fire is off
* ddaa thinking aloud
<spiv> ddaa: letting it go on in the same run is orthogonal to the logging/error reporting.
<ddaa> I think another ingredient is tracking mirror attempts dates and status, so we can see what was the effective interval between mirror attempts for a branch, and the interval between successful mirrors. In addition to the current "time since last attempt, time since last success" data that we already have but do not display.
<ddaa> spiv: I think it's parallel at the intersection point. Using a subprocess allows us to be confident in the good status of the control process when the pull failed, with any failure.
<ddaa> Not that I am convinced that we should worry about that, but lifeless apparently thought we should.
<SteveA> I want to know the simplest change that gives us reliable error reporting
<SteveA> all this other stuff may well be good
<SteveA> but the urgent thing is reliable error reporting
<SteveA> I don't think subprocesses helps there as such
<spiv> It sounds like you're not certain what lifeless's requirement/desire there was.  It might be good to have the precise purpose clarified.
<SteveA> I think what we need is something as simple as a try:: except: log raise
<ddaa> SteveA: I think a catchall try/except will do it
<SteveA> and make the "log" step really really simple
<SteveA> don't rely on a databaes connection even, if possible
<ddaa> add in display of last mirror attempt and last successful mirror (with more details to make the display nice, but you get the idea)
<SteveA> it has worked well to write out files in a standard directory structure
<SteveA> so, you might use the OOPS format
<ddaa> mh
<SteveA> that can then be rsynced across to devpad
<spiv> Right, just write to a file with a reasonably unique name in a particular location, OOPS-style.
<SteveA> you can even reuse the oops coeds
<SteveA> um, codes
<SteveA> I'm going to get that in my spam soon
<SteveA> if you use oops codes, then we can rsync them together with the other oopses
<SteveA> and use analysis and reading scripts
<SteveA> jamesh: maybe you can give ddaa some pointers on this?
<SteveA> the reason to keep the "log" step simple is that we can still log problems when the database or databaes connection has problems
<ddaa> That's no something to display errors to the user, right?
<SteveA> right
<SteveA> that's a different issue
<spiv> Right.
<SteveA> I want to get problem 1
<SteveA> reliable error reporting
<SteveA> sorted out before looking at other things
<ddaa> I think there's even a bug about that somewhere
<jamesh> https://launchpad.canonical.com/ErrorReportManagementForScripts has a very simple example of generating OOPS reports in a script
<ddaa> https://launchpad.net/products/launchpad-bazaar/+bug/44205
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 44205 in launchpad-bazaar "supermirror branch puller logging" [Medium,Unconfirmed]  
<jamesh> although you should change the prefix in the config file, so as not to conflict with what the app servers are using
<SteveA> use a longer previx
<SteveA> prefix
<SteveA> as it isn't user-visible
<SteveA> we don't need to have a short OOPS code
<jamesh> could just append PULLER to the end of the prefix from the config file
<SteveA> that would really be a question for what stub wants to do about it
<SteveA> another advantage of integrating with oops reports is that you can start to use the launchpad QA team to help triage import problems
<SteveA> oh, hi matsubara !
<ddaa> I think I get it.
<matsubara> hello SteveA 
<elmo> random "are these known/reported bugs?" questions:
<elmo> (1) lp.net/people/foobar just gives an oops page - would it be reasonable to return "no such users" and a search dialog instead?
<SteveA> elmo: it gives a NotFound page
<SteveA> which subtly contains an OOPS code
<elmo> (2) lp.net/people/ search for 'nick moffit' doesn't find 'nick moffitt' - clearly it should?
<SteveA> there is a bug open on offering a search
<elmo> ok
<SteveA> and we know exactly how to do it
<ddaa> https://launchpad.net/products/launchpad/+bug/1500
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 1500 in launchpad "The product not found page should issue a query and allow creation" [Wishlist,Unconfirmed]  
<ddaa> not exactly the same, but close
<SteveA> it's just a matter of someone having time for it
<ddaa> ha, that one: https://launchpad.net/products/launchpad/+bug/1500
<ddaa> oops
<ddaa> https://launchpad.net/products/launchpad/+bug/3942
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 3942 in launchpad "Present search results instead of NotFound pages" [Wishlist,Unconfirmed]  
<elmo> SteveA: that's fine, I wasn't chasing for it to be done, just asking if it was a known bug
<spiv> elmo: Btw, I've updated the authserver performance bug (bug 61885) -- I think we'll need to do something by the end of the week.
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 61885 in launchpad "authserver performance problems" [High,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/61885
<SteveA> about the searching for near names, that's kind of like stemming I suppose
* ddaa forcibly subscribes elmo to that bug ;)
<SteveA> stub: any comment?
<elmo> SteveA: (unfortunately asking here is much more productive than searching across all possible bugs/products)
<SteveA> stub: any comment on searching for "nick moffit" fails to find "nick moffitt" ?
<SteveA> elmo: google only works in that case because many pages have that typo in it
<stub> SteveA: I just use tsearch2 - I don't write tsearch2
<SteveA> searching google for "james trou" doesn't find any "james troup" pages
<spiv> elmo: searching for bugs at https://launchpad.net/projects/launchpad-project/+bugs will find bugs in any of the various launchpad products.
<stub> Steve's example could be done using phonetics (soundex or similar) matching, but I think that would do more harm than good even if we had time to implement it.
<stub> We should dump all those sub-launchpad-products - it breaks our model and we don't need them now we have tags. Meeting agenda item?
<SteveA> interestingly, google does find nick's launchpad page for "nick moffit lauchpad"
<stub> soyuz, rosetta etc.
<jamesh> ddaa: you should still get a 404 if you enter an invalid person name.  Having a relevant search box on the 404 page is a good idea though.
<SteveA> despite "moffit" not appearing on that page anywhere
<stub> Google must have a better stemmer than us.
<SteveA> I'd always thought they'd eschewed stemmers
<stub> (assuming we are using a stemmer?)
<ddaa> it looks like they do
<ddaa> eschew stemmers
<ddaa> they use the whole web has a giant collaborative stemmer :)
<SteveA> stemming double trailing letters to the single equivalent looks like a decent plan
<SteveA> elmo: congratulations, looks like you found an element of google's stemming algorithm
<jamesh> any double letters would be good, actually
<spiv> When dealing with names in searches, one idea is to weight earlier letters more than later ones in matching, because people tend to type the first e.g. 4 letters more accurately than e.g. the last 4.
<ddaa> SteveA: so, you'd like to work on oopsing the branch puller this week, right?
<ddaa> SteveA: can you clarify what additional info you need about the hct mess?
<ddaa> Since we have spiv and jamesh handy it would be a good time to talk it out.
<spiv> (an idea I saw at http://www.nist.gov/dads/HTML/jaroWinkler.html, which a previous employer of mine implemented)
<elmo> help
<mjg59> Dear Launchpad,
<elmo> team soyuz are spamming build logs at me
<elmo> and I can't leave the team?
<mjg59> Please stop sending me emails every time you build something
<ddaa> spiv: jamesh: in a nutshell, the issue is that we cannot remove pybaz because hct depends on pybaz, and some things depends on hct helpers. Notably the productreleasefinder (several hct.util helpers and hct.scaffold).
<mjg59> kthxbi
<mjg59> elmo: Ah, you too?
<mjg59> I'm not even /on/ Team Soyuz, am I?
<Spads> We're mostly getting failure messages
<SteveA> ddaa: the further information is this
<elmo> mjg59: everyone involved in launchpad-buildd-admins
<elmo> mjg59: and the tech board is owner, which is how you get dragged in, I'd imagine
<mjg59> Ah
<jamesh> ddaa: I've stripped a lot of the unnecessary hct stuff from product-release-finder
<SteveA> you told me about some specific modules of hct that are used
<SteveA> and I looked at those and saw that they are either spuriously used
<SteveA> or easy to separate from the rest of the hct code
<SteveA> but you were not specific about some other use of hct code
<SteveA> so I'm asking you to be absolutely specific about what modules from hct the code depends on
<ddaa> spiv: jamesh: IMO one issue is that we can either 1. duplicate the needed code out of hct 2. move the useful helpers in some separate module for hct to depend on 3. stub out hct to remove all the pybaz-dependent code. None of them is very satisfactory since hct has vocation to being fixed and released to the public. Since it will be released, it needs to be essentially self-contained.
<SteveA> then we can make a plan for making it not depend on that code
<jamesh> ddaa: it still uses the hct "Scaffold" test class for one fixture and a few of the path manipulation utils
<SteveA> ddaa: hct in its current form is mothballed
<SteveA> ddaa: also, I do not want us to depend on hct in launchpad, as it is unmaintained
<SteveA> so, we shall take the parts we need into launchpad code
<SteveA> if a maintained hct appears in the future, we can look at removing duplication then
<SteveA> to attempt to remove duplication between launchpad and a non-maintained tool is premature optimisation
<SteveA> a non-maintained, non-used tool
<ddaa> SteveA: so you suggest extracting the hct bits we really need out into launchpad, and keep them in a single place so we can easily clean out duplication later?
<SteveA> that would be a good first step
<SteveA> and we may find that we have better places for them than a single place
<SteveA> I'm saying, don't care about whether the code is ever going back into hct
<ddaa> jamesh: how essential is the use of Scaffold?
<SteveA> it is your code now
* ddaa cringes
<SteveA> as it is used only for this import stuff
<SteveA> so make the best of it
<SteveA> take only what you need
<ddaa> Okay, I get it. Slice it down as the dead carcass that it is.
<jamesh> ddaa: the one remaining fixture uses the wrapped() method on it (which provides a way to track method calls)
* carlos -> lunch
<ddaa> jamesh: there must be half a dozen implementation of this thing in different places...
<SteveA> not least in python 2.5, if it does what I imagine it to :-)
<SteveA> well, there's partial function support
<jamesh> ddaa: previously all the tests used Scaffold -- that was the only one that was non-trivial to switch to unittest.TestCase
<jamesh> ddaa: Scaffold has useful features like hiding tracebacks when you run tests under the zope test runner
<SteveA> I'm going to be away for a while.  I have an interview to do.
<ddaa> SteveA: it instruments an object so test cases can check that the right method calls are done without having to maintain whole collections of fake objects.
<SteveA> sounds like it can be used independently
<SteveA> like it has nothing to do with the domain of hct
<ddaa> hct has tons of cool little helpers like that, that's the issue
<SteveA> we need only those that are being used right now
<SteveA> the rest, we can look at later and see if they'll be useful for launchpad development
<SteveA> but really, the focus of the current task is to remove some deep but unnecessary dependencies
<SteveA> and by doing so, to make the launchpad subsystem that you maintain simpler
<SteveA> and so allow you to do more interesting things than maintain a complicated system
* SteveA -> away
* ddaa -> lunch
<elmo> spiv: replied to the authserver bug - sorry, got distracted
<Ubugtu> New bug: #62447 in soyuz "New deathrow code spams harmless exceptions when deleting symlinks" [High,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/62447
<Ubugtu> New bug: #62452 in launchpad "ipw3945 not working (Edgy 2.6.17-9-generic #2 SMP)" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/62452
<kiko> mooorning.
<sfllaw> Hey...  Was there a change in the search form for Malone?
<jamesh> sfllaw: there was a new code rollout today, so maybe.
<sfllaw> Yeah, it broke a whole bunch of links to Malone searches.
<jamesh> could you file a bug about it?
<sfllaw> What was the version of Malone that was just pushed out?
<sfllaw> So I can write it in the description?
<jamesh> "the 2006-09-26 rollout"
<sfllaw> Merci.
<Ubugtu> New bug: #62466 in malone ""Untriaged" to "Undecided" rename broke search form URLs" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/62466
<ddaa> kiko: any clue what is the purpose of canonical.doap.fileimporter?
<ddaa> to me, it looks like unused code
<kiko> ddaa, you're probably right. there's a lot of dead code like that.
<ddaa> it depends on hct, and we are currently trying to get rid of hct because it has a deep dependency on pybaz
<ddaa> kiko: do you think it should be just deleted, or moved to not-used?
<kiko> ddaa, I think you should give it a grace period after announcing its demise on the launchpad list CC: mark, and then nuke it off the planet if nobody answers.
<ddaa> my middle name is "rm", I do not give grace periods!
<LarstiQ> what, a release manager wihtout grace periods!oneelevencos(0)
<ddaa> I'm not a release manager, I'm a fearsome pirate^Wcoder.
<jamesh> ddaa: so I've got the +source form mostly working as a LaunchpadEditFormView-based form.  I was wondering if it'd be worth trying to merge the +sourceadmin form in
<ddaa> I am not sure. +sourceadmin is intended to have significantly different permission restrictions.
<jamesh> it is really just a few extra action buttons, isn't it?
<ddaa> For one thing, it should be unsable only by admin or vcs-imports. Then it should allow changing import details when the import has been put in production.
<jamesh> (which we wouldn't display to people who lacked the permissions)
<ddaa> Then, there are the extra checkboxes, yes.
<jamesh> the main +source form becomes unusable once an import has gone into production ...
<jamesh> (you can display it, but not submit it currently)
<ddaa> that's on purpose, though the rationale was based on Arch constraints
<ddaa> I guess we could relax that now, but there is little sense in doing it before the user has feedback on the status of an import.
<jamesh> I set the form's permission to launchpad.EditSource in my branch, btw
<jamesh> so it is only usable by people who could actually submit it
<ddaa> mh
<ddaa> I guess it's going to stay broken for a little while...
<ddaa> it may as well be broken and simple
<ddaa> unlike now, it's broken and complicated
<jamesh> if we relax the launchpad.EditSource permission, more people will be able to load it.
<ddaa> I mean, maybe we should allow users to change import details when the import has gone in production.
<ddaa> though I'm not sure
<ddaa> I find that a lot of people are just plain confused by what this does until somebody comes to explain to them. So they do pretty much random things.
* mpt perks up his ears
<mpt> SteveA, ping
<ddaa> mpt: I'm talking about series/+source, and how the whole vcs-import thing confuses everybody
<ddaa> for good reason
<ddaa> jamesh: so, yes for merging +sourceadmin with source, as long as you preserve the functionality and restrictions.
<mpt> Yay for merging pages, in general
<ddaa> mpt: +sourceadmin is only for my own use anyway
<ddaa> jamesh: if you do that, remember to update /bazaar/+series
<mpt> ddaa, what's the general use case? "Bob is interested in using Launchpad to host branches of his software"?
<ddaa> so it links to the right stuff
<jamesh> ddaa: I think the best way to represent the +sourceadmin checkboxes is as action buttons with the form framework.  That shouldn't affect the workflow much (one less click, if anything)
<ddaa> mpt: there are several use cases with different levels of cluefulness, not one general one
<ddaa> jamesh: in any case, those extra thingies are for admin and vcs-imports only, so do whatevery you think is best, it's not going to confuse users.
<jamesh> mpt: I'm looking at removing the first one and last two entry boxes from e.g. https://launchpad.net/products/launchpad/main/+source
<ddaa> mpt: one use case is "I heard I need to put my software in launchpad to be packaged by ubuntu, so I go through all the forms I find and put what I guess is right."
<jamesh> mpt: (the first box is already covered by the +ubuntupkg and +addpackage forms, and the last would be moved to +edit)
<Keybuk> ngh.  is Launchpad going to e-mail me every time a build fails?
<ddaa> mpt: another use case is "I'm interested in using bzr, and I want to do a one-off conversion", though the conversion can be one-off multipe times (e.g. people are rearraging cvs repos in the process)
<malcc> Keybuk: Hopefully not. We switched off the current spam until we can review the approach and/or some team memberships
<ddaa> jamesh: I have a branch that removes the first box
<jamesh> ddaa: I removed it in my branch because it was too much work to preserve ...
<ddaa> jamesh: Steve asked me to fix the two other +source bugs.
<Keybuk> malcc: heh, who did it send the mails to?  I assumed buildd-admins?
<malcc> Keybuk: Yup
<Keybuk> ah, which includes the tech board
<jamesh> malcc: perhaps a team email address should be set for buildd-admins (a mailing list)
<ddaa> jamesh: in that case, just look at my branch, there's a trick about a test case that was missing in manage-ubuntu-pkging.
<jamesh> malcc: that'd short circuit sending individual emails to each team member (plus transitive members)
<ddaa> jamesh: it's in SteveA's review queue
<kiko> jamesh, malcc: that sounds like the right idea.
<malcc> jamesh: We could do that, but we had a solution using a mailing list anyway; if we're not going to use LP to manage who gets these, we could just roll back to that solution
<kiko> malcc, I suggest you let me talk a bit about this with mdz once he's awake, and then I'll email you both
<malcc> kiko: Sure
<ddaa> mpt: another use case is "I am using bzr with that, and I want to register my branch. I go to +source because I was not able to find out about registering branches"
* ddaa workraves
<jamesh> we still need to reword the message on the productseries index page for when there is no series branch.
<mpt> These need testing
<ddaa> jamesh: I found out it's also on some package page
<ddaa> jamesh: I think maybe we could just remove that message. Now, it is mostly gibberish about HCT.
<ddaa> jamesh: I also think that the user_branch input should be in the same form as the vcs details, since they address the same use case: "I want to specify where the code for this product can be found".
<jamesh> ddaa: good idea.
<ddaa> that would probably help people that ask about "launchpad does not seem to support bzr"
<jamesh> ddaa: https://devpad.canonical.com/~jamesh/pending-reviews/jamesh/launchpad/bug-50569/full-diff <- that's what I've got so far
<jamesh> haven't looked at refactoring +sourceadmin in yet.
<doko_> carlos: was the ooo-build.pot from OOo imported?
<ddaa> jamesh: why make rcstype not-null?
<carlos> doko_: hmm, no, I didn't see that there was a new .pot file
<carlos> doko_: should I import it or block it?
<doko_> carlos: import it
<carlos> ok
<Ubugtu> New bug: #62338 in rosetta "Bad translation of translator-credits" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/62338
<jamesh> ddaa: it makes things a lot easier to code having a real enum value for "no RCS details given" rather than using NULL (which is like "unknown")
* bradb & # iRootCanal
<doko_> carlos: it's in the tarball: ./source/ooo-build/po/ooo-build.pot
<ddaa> jamesh: the other fix Steve asked me to do was bug 2649
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 2649 in launchpad-bazaar "CVS branch details should not be editable or displayed." [High,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/2649
<ddaa> that is, remove ProductSeries.cvsbranch from the web ui, and set it to 'MAIN' when setting up a cvs import.
<ddaa> So we could still set up non-MAIN imports by direct DB poking should we really need to.
<jamesh> ddaa: okay.
<ddaa> jamesh: maybe clarify "Launchpad automatically scans this directory regularly to import now releases"
<ddaa> Also, I think the old releasfileglob docstring was more helpful to form users
<jamesh> ddaa: I'll be merging the two fields together in this branch
<ddaa> ok, in any case, giving some example would help people understand what sort of pattern is expected there.
<jamesh> yep.
<ddaa> okay, I did not see anything in your branch that made me jump
<jamesh> ddaa: last thing: is there any reason to keep the last three items in the RevisionControlSystems dbschema around?
<ddaa> jamesh: also, you probably want to be aware of https://launchpad.net/products/launchpad-bazaar/+bug/42928 and related bugs
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 42928 in launchpad-bazaar "vcs-imports needs tests" [Medium,Confirmed]  
<ddaa> since it covers various problems with +source
<ddaa> in particular, it should be possible to clear the vcs import details (that is the full set of db fields, including the timestamps, syncinterval etc.) in some circumstances
<SteveA> mpt: hi
<ddaa> jamesh: absolutely no reason to keep RevisionControlSystems.{ARCH,PACKAGE,BITKEEPER}. Though there might be some hidden deps on the PACKAGE import in some places, like importd.
<ddaa> I gather that PACKAGE was meant for Sourcerer
<ddaa> so it's part of mothballed lot
<jamesh> don't see it used immediately, and the docstring for that value says not to use it :)
<LarstiQ> SteveA: I feeld bad only pinging you about the rosetta copyright thing, can I do anything more?
<ddaa> jamesh: please remove
<ddaa> jamesh: I think I'll phrase it somewhat differently
<carlos> doko_: yeah, I know, don't worry, it's just that the first time a new .pot file arrives I need to approve it manually
<carlos> next time it will be imported automatically
<carlos> it's done now
<ddaa> If you see anything related to productseries-source that your do not know being used, it is almost certainly cruft, delete it.
<carlos> now, the system should import its .po files
<SteveA> LarstiQ: not at this time
<doko_> carlos: thanks
<SteveA> mpt: I'm going to find some food.  back later.
<ddaa> jamesh: at that point, I think you are familiar with all the moving parts here
<LarstiQ> ok
<carlos> doko_: I will do the export then once that's imported
* ddaa needs to do some housekeeping
<mpt> SteveA, ok
<sabdfl> cprov: why is LP build system sending me mail these days?
<cprov> sabdfl: because you are related with launchpad-buildd-admin team (via tech-board I suspect)
<cprov> sabdfl: latelly we change build-failure-notification system to send email to member of the buildd-admin celebrity instead of a hardcoded mbox.
<cprov> sabdfl: the notification is off now and we are working to propose a short-term solution. Sorry about the spams
<doko_> carlos: I don't have permission to set the description for the file
<carlos> yeah, it's a bug in our side...
<carlos> doko_: in the mean time, give me it and I will add it 
<doko_> carlos: "OpenOffice desktop files"
<doko_> or menu, or whatever
<carlos> ok
<carlos> doko_: done
<sabdfl> cprov: ok, thanks
<keescook> matsubara: 61590> should I join the lp mailing list?  I didn't read the thread (it's private)
<matsubara> keescook: you're welcome to read it. 
<SteveA> mpt: hi.  I'm back, but I now need to cook the food.
<keescook> matsubara: okay, thanks.
<kiko> hey carlos 
<kiko> my refactoring is going very well
<carlos> kiko: hey
<kiko> I have one last step to do 
<carlos> cool
<carlos> I also saw that you are fixing the suggestions performance problem
<kiko> well
<carlos> are you doing that in different branches?
<kiko> TRYING. :)
<carlos> say yes, please....
<carlos> :-P
<kiko> what do you mean?
<carlos> that the refactoring is not blocked on that bug fix...
<kiko> what bug fix?
<kiko> oh
<kiko> no, I'll land the refactoring first
<kiko> but one really depends on the other
<mpt> SteveA, I'm awake again
<carlos> kiko: https://launchpad.net/products/rosetta/+bug/30602
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 30602 in rosetta "Timeout errors in +translate" [Critical,Confirmed]  
<carlos> kiko: yeah, I know
<carlos> but I would prefer to get the refactoring merged so I can continue TranslationReview while you fix it (I was planning to take that task too but if you want it, it's all yours)
<carlos> kiko: will you need my help fixing tests?
<SteveA> mpt: hello
<mpt> hi
<mpt> voice call?
<SteveA> mpt: ah, you didn't mention my name
<SteveA> so I had no idea you'd replied.
<SteveA> voice call, fine
<slytherin> What is the expected behaviour in the case: The owner of the l10n team to which a bug is assigned is not able to set importance of the team.
* carlos -> out
<slytherin> bradb: Can you help me with my query? I was directed here by seb128
<Ubugtu> New bug: #62495 in malone "Milestone bug list doesn't sort properly" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/62495
<ddaa> Need quick review for a cscvs fix: https://devpad.canonical.com/~andrew/paste/fileiuink0.html
<ddaa> actually, ignore that
<ddaa> it does not appear to work :(
* bradb returns
<bradb> hm, slytherin seems nowhere to be found. but i guess our tooltip about editing perms isn't helping much.
<mdz> cprov: I got a batch of build failure notifications today; what's new there?
<cprov> mdz: we modified soyuz to send email to members of launchpad-buildd-admin team (you are there via tech-board)
<mdz> cprov: does it email the uploader as well?
<cprov> mdz: no, because we hold a flag in config, it's prepared to
<cprov> mdz: not sure if you already talked with kiko about it, as soon as you sort the membership of the buildd team or decide to have a new team for notification we can start the notifications again.
<mdz> cprov: I haven't been able to talk with him much today
<cprov> mdz: if you remove tech-board, only soyuz & sysadmins will be emailed (fair enough, IMHO)
<mdz> cprov: I expect what we will want to do is create a mailing list and make it the contact address for l-b-a
<elmo> cprov: no it's not
<elmo> cprov: if you have the build logs spamming us, I will disable the MTA on drescher
<elmo> I already told you several times that it's not acceptable
<cprov> mdz: contact email for l-b-a is a good idea !
<cprov> mdz: only a single email will be sent, we can deal with ML subscription later
<cprov> elmo: fine, we will find a better solution, dispatcher still off.
<cprov> elmo: are you happy with mdz's suggestion ?
<elmo> cprov: I'm entirely unconcerned how you do things as long as we (canonical-sysadmins) don't receive build notifications
<cprov> elmo: ok, thanks 
<WebMaven> SteveA: AYT?
<Ubugtu> New bug: #62523 in launchpad "cannot edit the release date in a release" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/62523
<WebMaven> SteveA: ping
#launchpad 2006-09-27
<BenC> Hey lp'ers
<BenC> I notice that on https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+milestone/ubuntu-6.10-beta if you hit Status, it doesn't exactly sort like you would expect
<lifeless> hmm, I think theres a bug already
<lifeless> but perhaps not
<BenC> I'm guessing that it's sorting on some other target for the bug besides the one aimed at the milestone
<BenC> actually, no, it isn't
<BenC> just isn't right :)
<lifeless> can you file a bug please
<lifeless> be sure to copy the sorted output from bug 54690 through 59883 in
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 54690 in foo2zjs "[Edgy]  Please sync new upstream version" [Medium,Fix released]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/54690
<BenC> sure thing
<lifeless> as that shows the problem really vividly
<lifeless> (fix released, confirmed, fix released)
<BenC> bug 62526 filed
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 62526 in launchpad "Status sorting on milestone listing is wrong" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/62526
<BenC> thanks guys
<Ubugtu> New bug: #62526 in launchpad "Status sorting on milestone listing is wrong" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/62526
<WebMaven> SteveA: ping
<Ubugtu> New bug: #62532 in launchpad "release pages does not show changelog" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/62532
<WebMaven> SteveA: ping
<mdz> any launchpad developers awake?
<jamesh> yes
<mdz> jamesh:  do you know if anything big is going on with Rosetta right now?
<mdz> I'm having trouble with bug 46559
<jamesh> mdz: I don't think anything special has changed
<mdz> jamesh: do you have access to look at any of that sort of thing?
<mdz> if they are doing a big import, I don't even know where that would run
<mdz> this is a huge blocker for ubuntu
<jamesh> I think you'll have to wait for stub (who should be up soon)
<mdz> jamesh: I'll be in and out; would you pounce on him for me?
<jamesh> okay
<mdz> have him call or SMS me and I'll explain
<jamesh> by the look of that bug, the affected soyuz code would need to be changed to be able to retry the failing transaction
<jamesh> (which a lot of the scripts aren't set up to do)
<mdz> I've tried it 4 times in a row and it has failed consistently
<mdz> a couple of hours ago, it ran successfully
<mdz> jamesh: do you know if there has been a production update recently?
<jamesh> there was one yesterday
<mdz> about what time?
* jamesh checks logs
<jamesh> mdz: looks like it would have finished around 9:00 UTC
<Ubugtu> New bug: #62545 in soyuz "View all builds for a just published SourcePackage crashes" [Medium,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/62545
<mdz> so ~17 hours ago
<mdz> that doesn't seem consistent
<jamesh> ah: <stub> soyuz is still down - I'll wait a tick until malcc shows up and he can confirm it should still be running with the old code.
<jamesh> there may be another update time for the soyuz code
<mdz> the first failure was around 0038 UTC
<lifeless> we dont update soyuz as part of the regular update
<lifeless> because its fragile
<mdz> malcc won't be up for several hours
<spiv> The soyuz code was updated.
<lifeless> hmm, I'm going low-blood-sugar, let me grab some food, back in 10 (sorry, I realise this is urgent, but mistakes here would be bad)
<mdz> looks like that question was resolved several hours later
<mdz> with soyuz being updated as spiv said
<mdz> this problem is only a couple of hours old
<spiv> Right.  stub talked to malcc ~15 hours ago, and updated soyuz, and Kamion reported that the problem he observed was now fixed.
<mdz> I think I just got lucky, the most recent publisher run seems to be succeeding after 7 failures in a row
<jamesh> that isn't too surprising given the type of error
<lifeless> back
<lifeless> looking
<lifeless> mdz: poimport is running
<lifeless> mdz: please try now
<mdz> lifeless: I got lucky and one succeeded; we don't have any more uploads in the queue
<lifeless> mdz: what time did it succeed ?
<mdz> lifeless: shortly before I said it for the first time in this channel
<mdz> which was 1929 local, 0229 UTC
<lifeless> thanks
<mdz> while you were away
<lifeless> well, I have killed poimport anyhow, you should have no further trouble
<mdz> lifeless: thank you
<mdz> lifeless: is that something which runs automatically?  any idea why things are going badly today in particular?
<mdz> lifeless: I sent a message to launchpad@ about the situation; if you could follow up with your findings and actions I'd appreciate it
<mdz> meanwhile I'm going to drive the cd image builds
<mdz> I've re-enabled the hourly run of the publisher and will let it fall where it may
<lifeless> mdz: yes, it runs from cron
<lifeless> no idea about what made it unhappy today, the rosetta devs may have more insight.
<lifeless> I've already replied to your launchpad@ email, if anything new crops up I shall follow up
<mdz> thanks
<jamesh> we should really look at how we want scripts to handle retries on aborted transactions
<jamesh> so that problems like this could be avoided
<mpt_> Goooooooooooooooood afternoon Launchpadders!
<stub> lifeless: Did you get any more feedback from the distro team? I'm wondering if the poimport cron job needs to be disabled or run less often, or if it is only the occasional run that causes blockage.
<lifeless> 12:53 < mdz> lifeless: thank you
<lifeless> 12:53 < mdz> lifeless: is that something which runs automatically?  any idea why things are going badly today in particular?
<lifeless> 12:54 < mdz> lifeless: I sent a message to launchpad@ about the situation; if you could follow up with your findings and actions I'd appreciate it
<lifeless> 12:54 < mdz> meanwhile I'm going to drive the cd image builds
<lifeless> 12:55 < mdz> I've re-enabled the hourly run of the publisher and will let it fall where it may
<lifeless> stub: no more feedback no.
<mdz> stub: I don't think I can provide any feedback which would help with that decision
<mdz> stub: someone needs to find out why that job was causing a problem, when it apparently doesn't usually
<mdz> perhaps it was running for an extended period of time
<mdz> whatever it was doing differently, it needs to not do that
<stub> serialization exceptions are expected when running in serializable transaction isolation level. We either need to handle them, or lower the transaction isolation.
<stub> Some runs will be more likely to trigger them (probably big rosetta imports), but they can still happen any time until we fix the problem.
<stub> The fix is trivial (and documented in that bug report), but will need to be tested before landing on production.
<mdz> stub: that bug report was marked wishlist until a couple of hours ago :-/
<stub> I'll leave the cronjob enabled if things are happy now - there is already a new poimport process running - but we can disable it if necessary to keep the release moving (maybe run it once or twice a day manually)
<mdz> stub: who do I call to get it stopped and disabled if needed?
<stub> mdz: Yeah - I hadn't heard of it causing much besides minor annoyance before and soyuz didn't have a particularly robust test process setup
<stub> mdz: Me, lifeless, admins, stevea (I think)
<mdz> thanks
<stub> poimport process running as launchpad on gangotri, and spawned from launchpad's crontab
<stub> Process can be killed without harm - it will recover
<mpt> stu1, ping
<stu1> mpt: pong
<jamesh> the enumvalue:foo TALES expression would be useful if it worked with security wrapped values ...
<mpt> stub, do you know why the web stats claim that there has been zero traffic on blueprint.launchpad.net?
<stub> Because we moved to features.launchpad.net?
<mpt> oh.
<lifeless> rotfl
<mpt> That's not a blueprint, that's a feature!
<mpt> thanks stub 
<stub> You want to rt a request to get the stats for features.launchpad.net put up and blueprint.launchpad.net removed?
<mpt> yeah
<sivang> morning
<SteveA> good morning
<carlos> morning
<SteveA> stub: hi
<slytherin> Can anyone tell me how can I apply for a mailing list for a l10n team.
<mpt> BjornT, ping
<BjornT> mpt: pong
<mpt> BjornT, I saw you said "I'm working on this" in the enter-URLs-as-bug-watches bug
<mpt> Is there an existing spec for that?
<mpt> or is it too small to need a spec?
<BjornT> mpt: well, i'm planning to do it steps. the first one will be to simply allow an url in the remote bug field, but still keeping the ability to choose a bug tracker manually.
<BjornT> mpt: there is a spec at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BugForwardingWorkflow, though, with some mock-ups at http://www.async.com.br/~kiko/mockups/bug-forwarding-workflow.html
<SteveA> mpt: hello.  I will try calling usman now.
<BjornT> mpt: there has also been some discussion about this on the mailing list.
<Burgundavia> BjornT: those mockups look really busy to me
<Burgundavia> BjornT: I also dislike the term "indicate"
<mpt> BjornT, could those mockups be put on the wiki? Last week I went through a bunch of specs that linked to mockups on cprov.gwyddion.com, a host that no longer exists. I'm not saying that async.com.br is going to stop existing, but it would be nice to keep all parts of the spec in one place
<BjornT> Burgundavia: yeah, they are quite busy. it could be worth redesigning them, to make the field where you enter the bug url more prominent.
<SteveA> mpt: he's in a meeting, but I left a message and he'll call me back when he's available.
<mpt> ok
<BjornT> Burgundavia: i also don't like the them "indicate", but it's so hard to come up with a good term. this has been discussed before, but no suitable term was found.
<jamesh> Burgundavia: it is better than the "request fix in" language
<jamesh> but isn't perfect
<BjornT> mpt: iirc, we tried to put the mockups on the wiki at first, but there were some problems with linking to images or something, so we did it like this instead.
<mpt> wellllll, those ones don't really need images :-)
<SteveA> mpt: do you have sometime to talk about the structural object presentation code?
<mpt> SteveA, sure
<carlos> danilo_: hey dude
<danilo_> carlos: hi
<carlos> danilo_: is your network link working well today?
<danilos> carlos: not really, and I racoon (VPN) packages are broken for my "backup" provider, so I am back at my parents house :(
<danilos> s/I racoon/ipsec and racoon/
<danilos> i.e. bug 44246
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 44246 in ipsec-tools "racoon-0.6.5-4ubuntu1 fails to configure" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/44246
<carlos> :-(
<carlos> well, at least you can work
<danilos> yeah
<carlos> did you see my request for help?
<danilos> not yet, where? email?
<carlos> danilos: yeah, email
<carlos> I'm stalled with some tests
<carlos> it fail and I don't find why
<danilos> I've been setting up ADSL on my new computer, so I still started a bit late
<carlos> don't worry
<danilos> so, what do you need help with?
<danilos> (until all of my email gets downloaded, which goes a bit slower at 256kbps)
<carlos> danilos: sftp://devpad.canonical.com/home/warthogs/archives/carlos/launchpad/bug-44214/
<carlos> that branch
<carlos> and test translationimportqueue.txt
<danilos> sure, I'm checking it out right now
<danilos> I got so used to 1-2mbps connection, that all this is now terribly slow ;)
<carlos> :-P
<Ubugtu> New bug: #62584 in soyuz "Deathrow executioner doesn't guarantee stay of execution time" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/62584
<jordi> 123
<carlos> jordi: 456
<carlos> :-)
<danilos> btw, I should probably filter translation imports into another account on the server directly, since I am only at 1200/1600 messages now
<carlos> danilos: well, I think we should disable those emails if there are no errors with the imports
<danilos> carlos: yeah, most likely, is there a bug about it, or should I report it?
<carlos> report it, please
<Ubugtu> New bug: #62595 in launchpad "Timeout to low for ISO images?" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/62595
<Ubugtu> New bug: #62598 in rosetta "Successful imports should not send email to rosetta@launchpad.net" [Wishlist,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/62598
<carlos> bug #62598 a.k.a. stop spamming admins!!
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 62598 in rosetta "Successful imports should not send email to rosetta@launchpad.net" [Wishlist,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/62598
<carlos> :-P
<danilos[brb] > ;)
<jamesh> ddaa: I've done a bit more work untangling the $series/+source form.  I'd appreciate if you could take a quick look over the action button implementations for the sourceadmin functionality.
<ddaa> URL?
<jamesh> https://devpad.canonical.com/~jamesh/pending-reviews/jamesh/launchpad/bug-50569/full-diff
<ddaa> bah, okay, I'll figure out the branch from that
<jamesh> the changes in lib/canonical/launchpad/browser/productseries.py are the interesting ones as far as this goes
<jamesh> I got rid of IProductSeriesSourceSet and IProductSeriesSource while doing this too ...
<ddaa> I was hardly making sense at all of that code before, so I am mostly interested in the UI result
<ddaa> jamesh: there's a bug open on merging those classes, you can take it
<jamesh> yep
<jamesh> the ProductSeriesView class is down to 170 lines after pulling the +source/+sourceadmin stuff out
<jamesh> ddaa: the "FTP details" bit will be moved from the +source form soon, so pretend it isn't there when looking at the changes.
<ddaa> jamesh: maybe remove the "# DEPRECATED" in browser.bazaar, it's just confusing and has not enough information to be useful. 
<jamesh> both, or just for /bazaar/series ?
<ddaa> I was thinking of /bazaar/series
<ddaa> I dunno which other one you're thinking of
<jamesh> done.
<jamesh> ddaa: in that class, there are two occurences of "# DEPRECATED"
<ddaa> hu?
<ddaa> products?
<ddaa> WTF is that for
<jamesh> ddaa: I can traverse like this: https://launchpad.net/bazaar/products/launchpad
<ddaa> ???
<ddaa> there's a problem with cruft in launchpad
<jamesh> it changes the layer, so I suppose it might have been intended that "/bazaar/products/foo would display the same as "/products/foo/+branches" does
<jamesh> but it can probably go completely
* jamesh kills
<jamesh> of course, 'series' could probably just be a view on /bazaaar
<jamesh> rather than using IProductSeriesSet as a context
<ddaa> that page is also quite crufty
<ddaa> for example the "Ready" checkbox is no longer useful
<ddaa> it appears to ignore disabled products
<ddaa> I mean, not ignore
<ddaa> it has the old crazy js hack from plone that prevent keyboard navigation of the table
<jamesh> I updated/simplified that template a little, btw
<ddaa> but since it's only for admin use, it's not a biggie
<jamesh> so you can navigate with the keyboard
<ddaa> jamesh: FYI, I think the ProductSeries.syncCertified is buggy: it checks for a non-null timestamp instead of looking for the value of the importstatus
<ddaa> well... which makes senses in the context it is used in allowCertify...
<ddaa> I also sometimes need to put an import into production without going through autotest first, like the python import
<ddaa> to short out the double import
<ddaa> In the current design, an import should allowCertify if it's DONTSYNC, TESTING, TESTFAILED or AUTOTESTED
<ddaa> eventually, I want to redesign importstatus, but it's not yet clear how.
<ddaa> that would probably take the value of import_branch into account
<cprov> carlos: ping
<carlos> cprov: pong
<carlos> did you see the bug report and the mail thread about buildd vs Rosetta?
<cprov> carlos: hi dude, yep, process-accepted isn't using READ_COMMITED yet
<cprov> carlos: I'll request stub quick review and get it done
<carlos> cprov: Oh, I thought you tried it and failed...
<carlos> cprov: ok, thanks
<stub> There was a bug where the setting was not taking effect which might have blocked the fix - I don't remember. 
<jamesh> ddaa: thanks.  We probably want to disallow these options if the rcstype isn't one of CVS or SVN too, right?
<ddaa> Well...
<ddaa> Actually, there should be a constraint, (rcstype = 0) = (importstatus is NULL)
<ddaa> if the rcstype is any of the deprecated type, the behaviour is undefined :)
<jamesh> in the state my branch is in, it'll set rcstype = BAZAAR if that checkbox gets checked
<jamesh> s/checkbox/radio button/
<ddaa> hu?
<ddaa> which checkbox?
<jamesh> the "Bazaar" radio button
<ddaa> please do not use that
<ddaa> it would get in the way of separating ExternalBranch from ProductSeries
<jamesh> okay.  I'll look at refactoring how I do that part of the code.
<elmo> cprov/malcc: drescher:
* ddaa got Ewa to turn off eMule, and got his BW back
<elmo>  /dev/cciss/c0d0p1     533G  481G   26G  95% /
<malcc> elmo: Argh
<malcc> elmo: Did we ever resolve for you whether or not that bunch of stuff could be deleted?
<elmo> malcc: we did it and it was
<stub> cprov: r=stub on the transaction isolation fix
<cprov> stub: thank you !
<stub> Done a test run anywhere, or is the test suite enough now?
* carlos -> lunch
<ddaa> jamesh: in your branch, http://launchpad.dev/products/firefox/1.0 is broken
<ddaa> as in oops
<jamesh> gar.  I was probably a bit over-eager in cleaning things up
<ddaa> the hct-status stuff is used in a lot of places
<ddaa> jamesh: I think the Bazaar branch thing should be independent from the CVS/SVN stuff
<ddaa> as it is actually in the underlying database
<ddaa> It's initial value should be something like:
<ddaa> empty if user_branch and import_branch are both null
<ddaa> user_branch if user_branch is set
<ddaa> import_branch if user_branch is null and import_branch is set
<ddaa> setting it to a value != from import_branch sets user_branch
<ddaa> setting it to a value == import_branch clears user_branch
<jamesh> The alternative would be to just point people at +edit
<jamesh> might be easier than the alternatives
<ddaa> I cannot speak about implementation, but I think what I described would be quite intuitive to use
<ddaa> but I'm very strongly biased...
<jamesh> ddaa: ignoring the "bazaar branch" option on the form for now, it is possible to submit the form with no details entered.  The action buttons will need to handle that situation
<ddaa> mh... I am not sure, are you asking a question?
<jamesh> yeah: how should the buttons act if rcstype == NONE?
<ddaa> it should be allowed in some circumstances
<ddaa> allowed to Edit (owner) if importstatus < PROCESSING (not in production)
<ddaa> allowed to Admin (vcs-import and admin) in all cases
<ddaa> Then, it should clear import_branch, import_status, datelastsynced, syncinterval, rcstype, cvsroot, cvsmodule, cvsbranch, cvstarfileurl, svnrepository, dateautotested, dateprocessapproved, datesyncapproved, datestarted, datefinished
<jamesh> what I mean is that if the form has "No RCS details" selected, we don't want you to be able to put the import into production
<ddaa> the bkrepository and targetarch* fields will be deleted when the current remove-gnuarch lands
<ddaa> jamesh: successfully posting that form should remove all the vcs-import information
<ddaa> so, yes, you do not want to put that into production
<ddaa> actually, you should not even be allowed because of db constraints
<ddaa> in ForeignBranch terms, that would be the action equivalent to deleting a ForeignBranch
<ddaa> jamesh: I am not sure I am answering your question
<jamesh> ddaa: I think you have explained it okay.
<ddaa> note that the importstatus-based access restriction can lead to some interesting race conditions
<ddaa> for example, an Edit loads the form and clears the details, an Admin posts the form to approve the import for production, and the Edit posts the form.
<ddaa> The second post should fail. It's probably a unlikely enough race that it's okay to oops.
<jamesh> ddaa: they should get an unauthorised exception, right?
<jamesh> since they no longer have launchpad.EditSource permission when they post
<ddaa> jamesh: right
* ddaa -> break
<salgado> stub, BjornT, around?
<stub> salgado: yes
<BjornT> salgado: i'm around, but i'm about to leave for a while
<salgado> BjornT, stub, I'd like to discuss quickly if we should or not make Person.creation_rationale a NOT NULL and set a rationale for accounts created through the web UI
<salgado> this is what I had in mind initially, and I actually implemented it
<stub> What prompted the change?
<salgado> but then at some point I thought that the rationale would only make sense for automatically created accounts
<salgado> that is, we don't actually need a rationale for accounts created by their owners
<stub> NULL generally means 'this hasn't been set', so it is a bit ambiguous given that the field can be NULL or rationale.UNKNOWN
<BjornT> salgado: i think that it should be NOT NULL. that makes you think about what the rationale should be when creating new persons automatically. it's much easier to pass None, than to pass an incorrect rationale to createPerson()
<stub> If we have a status for accounts created by their owners, then we actually know that this account was created by their owner.
<salgado> on the other hand, having the rationale NOT NULL would make things simpler, and we could have a special rationale (something like rationale.OWNER_CREATED) for accounts created through the web
<stub> Rather than some screwup
<salgado> yeah, this is what I had initially
<sabdfl> we should try to ensure that new people all have a rationale, even if that's "registered when ordering shipit CD's".
<sabdfl> we often have people say "launchpad has an account for me and i don't know why"
<sabdfl> when often they created those themselves!
<stub> We can even use it to store more information. For example, OWNER_CREATED_LAUNCHPAD and OWNER_CREATED_SHIPIT etc. But that might be overkill.
<sabdfl> this is especially true if we create the account when parsing the real world (mailing lists, po files, bug reports etc)
<salgado> sabdfl, that, specifically, we can't tell. because from shipit we simply direct people to launchpad and ask them to create an account
<sabdfl> salgado: trivial to fix and necessary to do so
<jamesh> salgado: we know a URL to send people back to after they register their account though, right?
<stub> salgado: There is a URL referencing shipit that is used to send the user back after sighup.
<salgado> yeah, we could use the redirection url
<sabdfl> salgado: in the case of direct person creation we absolutely must ask the person doing the creation to leave some comment on why they created the record. ideally we also get permission to email the newly-registered person, quoting that reason AND the registrant's name
<malcc> elmo: The space all goes into our endless archive of everything ever uploaded, which grew around 40GB in August. We need an infinite disk, or a plan for when to archive/delete these. I've raised https://launchpad.net/products/soyuz/+bug/62612 as a home for discussion on what to do.
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 62612 in soyuz "Need a drescher disk space strategy" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  
<salgado> sabdfl, that is what I had in mind
<stub> salgado: Based on this discussion, I think the column should become NOT NULL and a value stored for all users.
* ddaa is back
<salgado> stub, agreed. I'm already changing it. :)
<salgado> stub, btw, should the UPDATE statements be moved to a separate sql script and moved to the pending/ directory?
<ddaa> jamesh: clearing vcs import details appeared to work with your branch, but then setting them back again causes an oops
<stub> UPDATES are fine in the database patches provided they don't modify the sample data, and are required if you are setting the column to NOT NULL.
<salgado> I see
<ddaa> jamesh: actually, just posting the form w/o change causes an oops: http://launchpad.dev/products/a52dec/failedbranch/+source
<ddaa> as Foo Bar
<ddaa> jamesh: test coverage for +source/+sourceadmin is seriously lacking, so do not assume that not breaking tests means it's good.
<salgado> stub, how about teams; what rationale do you think we should use for them?
<stub> Hmm... I guess the field makes no sense for teams, so the column should be NULLable but with a check constraint CHECK (creation_reason IS NULL = teamowner IS NULL). Sound reasonable?
<salgado> yeah, I think so
<ddaa> stub: hey, can you give some love to the db patch in sftp://devpad.canonical.com/home/warthogs/archives/david/launchpad/remove-gnuarch? It's in the DBA review queue and has r=SteveA already
<Ubugtu> New bug: #62612 in soyuz "Need a drescher disk space strategy" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/62612
<sabdfl> stub: is it a text field, or a combination reason int not null, comment text nullable?
<stub> sabdfl: combination int and comment text
<sabdfl> cool
<salgado> stub, shouldn't it be CHECK (creation_rationale IS NULL = teamowner IS NOT NULL)?
<stub> salgado: yes
<salgado> stub, https://devpad.canonical.com/~andrew/paste/file0TTwYT.html ; I'm adding the comments now, btw
<stub> salgado: Will those updates mess with your sample data, or will it just reset the values?
<salgado> stub, no, the branch includes a patch to the sampledata too
<stub> salgado: See if make sampledata still works after building a fresh database with your patch and the updated sample data. 
<salgado> stub, the current sampledata doesn't have the rationale for validated accounts, but I'll add them and it should pass, I think
<SteveA> ddaa: ping
<stub> If the patch screws the sampledata rebuilding, then we need to move the UPDATES to a post rollout data migration script and delay adding the CHECK constraint until a future rollout.
<ddaa> SteveA: I'm about to go out to the photographer
<ddaa> back in < 1h
<salgado> stub, hmmm. I don't see what you mean. isn't it enough to just update the sampledata to not break the new constraint?
<stub> salgado: There is a catch-22 situation in how the sample data is rebuilt. I can't quite recall the details unfortunately :-(
<bradb> stub: If I \e'd a query, then quit postgres, how can I get the whole query back? \e'ing again brings up an empty editor, and line-by-line copy-and-pasting the readline history is against my religion.
<stub> bradb: Dunno if you can.
<bradb> hrm. blasphemy it is.
<stub> ddaa: Huh. I missed that earlier because it is flagged merge-approved
<salgado> stub, updated sampledata works fine with this patch: https://devpad.canonical.com/~andrew/paste/file6i8b5C.html
<salgado> (same as the previous one, but added a name to the constraint)
<stub> salgado: So rebuilding the sample data again works, and the diff between current.sql and newsampledata.sql does not show anything alarming? If so, r=stub
<stub> salgado: patch-67-21-0.sql
<salgado> stub, actually, I didn't try rebuilding the sampledata... I changed it manually. I'll see if I can rebuild it
<salgado> yeah, it rebuilt just fine
<salgado> thanks stub
<kiko-zzz> hello hello
<malcc> Morning kiko. Any thoughts on https://launchpad.net/products/soyuz/+bug/62612 ?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 62612 in soyuz "Need a drescher disk space strategy" [Critical,Confirmed]  
<kiko> let's see.
<kiko> malcc, I think that's something the distro team is best equipped to give consel on, but why don't we just throw away anything that's more than a month old?
<malcc> kiko: Doesn't sound unreasonable
<kiko> malcc, historically, have uploads from before that period been useful?
<malcc> kiko: Sometimes useful, but not usually vital. A couple of times when builds have gone missing or other odd data artifacts have turned up, it's been useful to check what was originally uploaded
<kiko> malcc, even for builds that are more than a month old?
<malcc> kiko: I can think of one time I looked at something at least that old, but it wasn't vital that it was still there.
<malcc> kiko: We could go for three months, we've got space for that and at least it's finite
<kiko> malcc, fine by me as well. how much would that save today?
<malcc> kiko: Probably around 100 gigs, don't know exactly
<kiko> wow
<kiko> malcc, should we chat a bit now about effects of the rollout?
<malcc> kiko: Sure
<kiko> malcc, privmsg or ##soyuz1.0?
<malcc> kiko: How about ##soyuz1.0?
<jgi> hi everyone
<kiko> y not
<kiko> yo jgi 
<jgi> I'm trying to upload a new template for the WengoPhone project, but I don't see anything in the import queue
<jgi> Could you please tell me where I should check if I've done something wrong?
<kiko> jgi, sounds odd. matsubara can you give him a hand?
<carlos> kiko: I can take care of that, don't worry
<carlos> jgi: hi
<kiko> cool
<jgi> carlos, hi
<carlos> jgi: where did you upload it?
<jgi> kiko, thanks!
<jgi> carlos, here: https://launchpad.net/products/wengophone/trunk/+pots/qtwengophone/+upload
<carlos> jgi: that's the right place
<carlos> let me check...
<carlos> jgi: hmmm, I guess it's not this file: http://librarian.launchpad.net/4519061/qtwengophone_en.po (I think our system changed the filename, so don't pay attention to it)
<carlos> jgi: I don't see any other entry that failed or was imported recently for wengophone
<carlos> jgi: if that's the file you uploaded.... it looks broken
<carlos> it contains translations and the file format seems like is not completely correct...
<jgi> carlos, hmmm...
<jgi> carlos, the file I uploaded does not contain any translation
<carlos> jgi: this one contains just one string as translation and a lot of "              " for the other strings:
<carlos> #: 
<carlos>             AIMSettings
<carlos>         #2
<carlos> msgid ""
<carlos> ""
<carlos> "                Password:"
<carlos> "            "
<carlos> msgstr ""
<carlos> "                Pasvorto:"
<carlos> "            "
<carlos> it's the second message
<carlos> our system says that that file was imported by wengo launchpad bot
<jgi> ok, it must have been imported a while ago
<carlos> and the date when it was generated was on 2006-09-27 12:05+0200
<carlos> that's today
<jgi> ok, indeed, this file may well be wrong
<jgi> but the last one I uploaded is probably fine, and it's different
<jgi> for example
<jgi> here's the entry for Password:
<jgi> #: AIMSettings#2 GoogleTalkSettings#2 JabberSettings#2 LoginWindow#5
<jgi> #: MSNSettings#2 SimpleIMAccountManager#1 SubscribeWengo1#9 SubscribeWengo2#4
<jgi> #: YahooSettings#1
<jgi> msgid "Password:"
<jgi> msgstr ""
<carlos> that looks better
<carlos> let me check again...
<WebMaven> SteveA: ping
<carlos> jgi: could you tell me what do you have in the header of that file for 'POT-Creation-Date' ?
<jgi> carlos, 2006-09-27 14:06
<carlos> jgi: I don't see any trace of that file in our system
<carlos> neither as failed, imported or waiting for being approved
<carlos> did you see the confirmation message?
<jgi> yes, this is what I found in the import queue
<jgi> yep, I got the confirmation message
<carlos> could you try again?
<jgi> sure
<jgi> done
<carlos> thanks
<carlos> jgi: I see it now
<carlos> https://launchpad.net/rosetta/imports/+index?target=products&status=NEEDS_REVIEW&type=pot
<carlos> hmm
<carlos> I don't know what happened the first time...
<carlos> jgi: did you tried it more than once?
<jgi> carlos, yes
<jgi> weird
<jgi> anyway
<jgi> thank  you very much, I'll drop you a line if the problem reappear
<carlos> kiko, SteveA: Is there anyway to debug a file upload based on our system logs?
<carlos> jgi: thanks
<carlos> kiko, SteveA: either apache or zope ones
<kiko> carlos, no, though it depends on what you mean by debug.
<carlos> kiko: well, know whether a file upload was actually done
<carlos> without errors
<kiko> carlos, hmmm, not entirely sure. I guess the apache log would log a 200 versus a 500 maybe?
<carlos> no idea
<Ubugtu> New bug: #62632 in launchpad "Jabber account should be obsfucated like email addresses" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/62632
<ddaa> Is someone here willing to have a pre-impl chat with me about some interesting bit of cscvs (yes, there are some).
<ddaa> ?
<stub> bradb: Do you think Ian's problem is common? I was wondering if we need a data migration script that unsubscribes anyone from a bug they are explicitly subscribed to if they are implicitly subscribe to it.
<bradb> stub: His filter seems somewhat specific.
<stub> (not that this will help Ian, so I'll check and run that migration tomorrow when my brain is working)
<bradb> stub: We could consider doing that explicit -> implicit migration though...
<stub> something to sleep on. Might do some possible harm as well as possible good.
* stub buggers off
<matsubara> cprov-lunch, malcc: time for a quick review (40 lines) that fixes OOPS-269C298?
<Ubugtu> https://devpad.canonical.com/~jamesh/oops.cgi/269C298
<malcc> matsubara: Yes
<matsubara> malcc: https://sodium.ubuntu.com/~andrew/paste/fileKK72c1.html
<malcc> matsubara: Yes, looks fine to me
<matsubara> malcc: sending to pqm. thanks!
<jordi> danilos: hey man
<jordi> danilos: ping?
<Ubugtu> New bug: #62634 in launchpad "Tags returned by find_tags_by_class have unexpected .string value when tag contains another tag" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/62634
<Ubugtu> New bug: #62635 in rosetta "Feature request: Template categorization" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/62635
<kiko-afk> carlos, almost finished the refactoring!
<kiko-afk> wooo!
<carlos> that's good news!!!
<carlos> do you need help with test fixes?
<kiko-afk> carlos, I may. I still need to get form posting to work again
<kiko-afk> my work dropped about 300 lines in total!
<carlos> cool
<kiko-afk> carlos, do you know if there are any alt language suggestions for evolution?
<carlos> as long as we don't miss any feature :-P
<kiko-afk> in sampledata?
<kiko-afk> or is there a url where I can test alt language?
<carlos> kiko-afk: any language with translations is enough
<kiko-afk> I'm currently testing using
<kiko-afk> http://localhost:8089/products/evolution/trunk/+pots/evolution-2.2/es/+translate?start=0&alt=ab
<kiko-afk> but because form posting is broken I can't add any :-(
<carlos> kiko-afk: that template doesn't have any other translation
<trappist> I've just noticed a doc on an xmlrpc interface for filing bugs.  are there plans for similar interfaces for finding, updating, modifying etc. existing bugs?  or does such a thing already exist?
<kiko-afk> carlos, do any template have?
<kiko-afk> trappist, there are plans but no implementation yet.
<carlos> kiko-afk: http://launchpad.dev/distros/ubuntu/hoary/+source/pmount/+pots/pmount/
<carlos> kiko-afk: chose any language there and use as alt= any other language code from that list
<kiko-afk> woo, awesome
<kiko-afk> thanks
<kiko-afk> carlos, can I replace:
<kiko-afk> Croatian (Alternate Language):   	 	
<kiko-afk> with just
<kiko-afk> Croatian:
<kiko-afk> ?
<kiko-afk> the parenthesized text doesn't really add much
<kiko-afk> even if the user is confused as to why it's there
<kiko-afk> the text doesn't really tell him
<carlos> Well, Mark choose that label. It adds from where it comes
<carlos> but I see your point
<kiko-afk> from where it comes is great
<carlos> anyway, we need to improve those labels
<kiko-afk> yeah.
<kiko-afk> I'm all for keeping Croatian
<carlos> to note 'Comes from upstream' and things like that
<kiko-afk> sure
<kiko-afk> but that could be added to the string or as a note
<cprov> matsubara: ping
<kiko-afk> not the bold title
<kiko-afk> okay, I'll do it, complain later :)
<carlos> ;-)
<matsubara> cprov: pong
<cprov> matsubara: a similar fix is in my `buildd-ui`, see https://devpad.canonical.com/~jamesh/pending-reviews/cprov/launchpad/buildd-ui/full-diff
<cprov> matsubara: can you merge them, the use of ID for the <div> is very interesting because you can use pagetest-helpers, which makes the tests more robust, IMO.
<cprov> matsubara: what do you think ?
<matsubara> cprov: indeed, but I already sent to pqm with r=malcc
<carlos> danilos: hi, around?
<cprov> matsubara: no problem, I will wait and merge into mine.
<cprov> matsubara: please, request the cherrypick 
<kiko-afk> right please do so
<matsubara> cprov: ok.
<cprov> matsubara: thanks 
<jordi> danilos: ping?
<matsubara> cprov: btw, I don't think you need to import the pagetest helper functions. they're available in the pagetest namespace.
<cprov> matsubara: yes, just figured it out (exactly this minute), thank you ;)
<carlos> kiko-fud: I need to leave now, please, mail me if I should do anything with your branch or if you merge it so I can resume TranslationReview
<danilos> jordi: pong
<kiko-afk> BjornT, are you around?
<BjornT> hi kiko-afk 
<kiko-afk> BjornT, quick question. you know setupWidgets(), right? are the form elements' names always prefixed by "field."? is there a way around that?
<BjornT> kiko-afk: i don't think there is any easy way around it. it's possible to changed 'field.' to something else, but if you pass in an empty prefix, you'll get the field names prefixed with '.' (e.g. '.fieldname')
<kiko-afk> BjornT, okay, never mind then. I'll adapt the client code.
<danilos> anyway, going out now
<zeeeee> hi all, how do i get the code for a project, eg https://launchpad.net/products/newt/? can i see the src using my web browser, or do i need bazaar? (what command(s) should i use on baz to check out the files?)
<matsubara> zeeeee: $ bzr branch http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~vcs-imports/newt/main should work
<zeeeee> thanks matsubara 
<Ubugtu> New bug: #62663 in malone "Subscribed bug does not show on subscribed bugs list" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/62663
* bradb & # out for a bit, bbl
<kiko-afk> whew
<kiko-afk> I think form posting now works.
<salgado> BjornT, still around?
<BjornT> salgado: yeah
<salgado> BjornT, about the issue with urls_and_rationales and registered_origins, I was thinking about a simple test to check that all values of the latter are keys of the former, but I'm not sure where to place it
<salgado> BjornT, would a test like that be okay and, if so, do you have any suggestion on where to place it?
<Mez> hey - I've had a think. Wouldnt it be possible for rosetta to sync *.pot/*.po files from KDE's SVN ...
<Mez> solving a major "political" issue between the 2 projects ?
<BjornT> salgado: it was such a test i was looking for, so yes, it'd be ok. if you can't find a suitable place to put it, maybe put it in the view class' docstring?
<salgado> BjornT, yeah, I thought about the view docstring too. guess it's okay for now
<seb128> Mez: the political issue being that changes don't go back upstream?
<kiko-afk> WOO! IT WORKS!
<Mez> seb128, that and when it's changed in KDE it doesnt change in ubuntu
<kiko-afk> man
<kiko-afk> this SO COOL
<seb128> Mez: an import from the SVN will not change that
<Mez> seb128, but it could be sorted so it adds the stuff back to SVN - surely ?
<seb128> if upstream accept to have rosetta commiting to the SVN
<seb128> dunno about KDE but GNOME translator would not like that for sure
<Mez> lol
<seb128> they have some proof-reading, etc
<Mez> well I'll have words ;)
<seb128> rosetta quality is usually lower
<Mez> seb128, probably ;) but it could even just email out the translations to mailing lists or something something would be nice
<Mez> rather than nothing
<seb128> right
<lifeless> SteveA: who is richard wilbur ?
<seb128> I've already discussed about that with carlos too
<Mez> and what was said ?
<Mez> if you dont mind me being nosy
<seb128> Mez: it has nothing to do with sync from SVN though
<seb128> it was said they are working on it
<Mez> fair enough... but a sync from svn would be nice aswell ;)
<seb128> they just have lot to do and not many people
<seb128> sync from svn is nice
<Mez> you already have it ?
<seb128> it just doesn't fix the diff with upstream issue, nor the quality issue
<seb128> no
<seb128> "would be nice" rather
<Mez> ;)
<Mez> seb128, true but it's a step in the right direction - surely?
<Mez> anyways - I tg to work :(
<ddaa> hi lifeless
<ddaa> I'm redesigning svn_oo.ChangesIterator, and I'd like your input to be sure I'm not being over complicated
<ddaa> lifeless: can we have a preimpl chat on that?
<lifeless> ddaa: yes, tonight
<ddaa> okay, that is my tomorrow morning then
<lifeless> you have skype ?
<lifeless> (asterisk is still unspeakable quality for me)
<ddaa> yes
<lifeless> I'm rbtcollins
<ddaa> though I'd prefer a text chat for that, since it's a seriously hairy matter
<lifeless> we can do both
* ddaa sets up the voip hardware
<Docta> hey
<Docta> i have a problem
<Docta> can anyone tell me how i would install a program on ubuntu
<matthewrevell> Docta: Hello - you're most likely to get a good answer in #ubuntu
<matthewrevell> Docta: This channel is for launchpad.net
<Docta> oh ok
<Docta> what OS do you use
<ddaa> lifeless: okay, I asked for your authorization
<LarstiQ> ddaa: lifeless just went to aikido
<ddaa> hrm
* ddaa goes back to flesh out his svn changeset evalution design from heel
<ddaa> s/heel/hell/
<ddaa> LarstiQ: changeset processing is probably the most tricky problem I had to tackle
<LarstiQ> I feel I'm missing context here?
<ddaa> I'm just talking generally, I'm rewriting the bit of cscvs that interprets svn log entries to apply changes to a bzr tree
<ddaa> and doing it right becomes quite hairy very quickly
<ddaa> I have some consolation knowing that TreeTransform is one of the most voodoo parts of bzr
<ddaa> and that generating changesets from cvs is MAJOR voodoo
<ddaa> so it seems that anything that deals with creating or applying changeset just has to be complicated
<LarstiQ> but patch and diff are so simple! *curses at hunks failing to apply*
<ddaa> hum hum
<ddaa> there was some discussion on bzr some time ago about diff implementation, and it looked far from simple
<ddaa> not talking of patch, which AFAIK is just utterly non-correct, but has the right heuristics that make it work most of the time
<ddaa> and there is indeed something out there that applies patch whenever possible, it's called "darcs" and very little people really understand what it actually does...
<LarstiQ> so I understand you're having fun?
<ddaa> some sort if highly geeky fun
<ddaa> the sort that sends you to a padded room when you abuse it
<mpt> Gooooooooooooooooood morning Launchpadders!
* flacoste -> aikido
#launchpad 2006-09-28
<mpt> "I will be good for fixing bugs."
<matsubara> mpt: launchpad should be open source?
<mpt> matsubara, what? :-)
<matsubara> mpt: the bug where you read that.
<mpt> No, I read that in bug 44
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 44 in rosetta "Translations should be searchable" [High,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/44
<mpt> An amusing typo, that's all
<matsubara> oh I'm confusing the bugs. I guess I've been reading too many reports lately.
<mpt> heh
<Ubugtu> New bug: #62696 in soyuz "Task headers in Packages files do not match seeds exactly" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/62696
<kiko-afk> mpt, ping?
<mpt> kiko-afk, pong
<kiko-afk> mpt, you know helpers.msgid_html?
<kiko-afk> I think you changed that when fixing the rosetta issue bug 46?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 46 in rosetta ""special symbols" when people copy-paste text from original to translation" [High,Fix committed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/46
<kiko-afk> mpt?
<mpt> kiko-afk, yes
<Ubugtu> New bug: #62702 in launchpad "Launchpad needs a privacy policy" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/62702
<yarddog> can someone help me with merging two accounts with one email address not accessable any longer?
<yarddog> i have tried the email list as i was referred to, i have tried the launchpad support site, and now here
<yarddog> anyone?
<yarddog> "you can contact SteveA or kiko on #launchpad at irc.freenode.net and they will be able to merge your accounts."
<yarddog> ive been trying to remedy this for a week
<yarddog> sorry if i seem agitated but i think a week is long enough for this
<kiko-afk> mpt, so that code appears to be on crack
<kiko-afk> mpt, expand_rosetta_tabs is only used there -- why are you redoing the replacement with a different replacement?!
<kiko-afk> mpt, can you email me about this so I can sort it out in the morning?
<kiko-afk> thanks.
<mpt> expand_rosetta_tabs??
<mpt> Did I even touch that code?
<kiko-afk> mpt, no, but you should have.
<mpt> heh
<kiko-afk> the code you change does something like
<kiko-afk> replace("a", "b")
<kiko-afk> replace("b", TranslationConstant.X)
<kiko-afk> which is, well.. :)
<mpt> ok, I'll mail you a reminder
<kiko-afk> thanks, I'm so tired and just noticed this
<kiko-afk>  16 files changed, 1357 insertions(+), 1484 deletions(-)
<kiko-afk> whew
<kiko-afk> this was actually not as bad as I thought it would be.
<kiko-afk> of course, the tests probably don't pass :-)
<mpt> kiko-afk, are you helping yarddog?
<kiko-afk> oh
<kiko-afk> no!
<kiko-afk> yarddog, hey?
<kiko-afk> yarddog, which are your accounts?
<kiko-afk> yarddog, I didn't see a ticket filed by you, and nowhere did you say which two accounts needed to be merged, which is why I couldn't help you before.
<yarddog> i filed a ticket just now
<kiko-afk> yarddog, what's the ticket number
<yarddog> 1911
<kiko-afk> just like razor
<yarddog> it seems that 'yarddog' is under the gmail address and 'yarddog2' is under the current account
<kiko-afk> yarddog, one sec.
<yarddog> ok
<yarddog> thank you kiko-afk 
<kiko-afk> most welcome
<kiko-zzz> time to catch those zs now
<mpt> spiv, ping
<skaller> hi, I'm trying to figure out how to link Launchpad bugtracker to upstream sourceforge bugtracker for my product
<skaller> any hints how to do that? do i need to create a team or something?
<spiv> mpt: pong
<jamesh> skaller: at the moment, you'll need to create a bugtracker object for your sf project's bug tracker
<skaller> ok .. how does that relate to the existing package?
<jamesh> skaller: go to https://launchpad.net/malone/bugtrackers/+newbugtracker and use a URL like http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=$GROUPID&atid=$ATID
<jamesh> you can then link bugs to that tracker
<jamesh> We should clean this up, since spiv found a way of getting SF bugs without knowing the groupid/atid
<skaller> hey, the ability to do this kind of linkage at all is very superior!
<jamesh> I'm just saying that our current handling of SF bug links sucks :)
<skaller> sure, but i'm saying don't feel to bad about it :)
<skaller> you ever tried to get support from microsoft?
<jamesh> can't say I've tried directly.
<skaller> hmm .. now I can't figure out how to get the groupid/atid from sf :)
<jamesh> skaller: pull up the bug you want to link to and look at the URL
<skaller> there's no bug .. but I found the tracker id now thanks
<skaller> http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=28597&atid=394143
<skaller> I get that URL, does that see right?
<jamesh> yep
<jamesh> skaller: SF has this great system where they identify each bug by three numbers.  You generally need to get all three numbers right to look at a bug
<skaller> oops now I'm confused, which field does that URL go to
<jamesh> "Base URL"
<skaller> so for a name I might say "Felix upstream"?
<skaller> Felix is the package name
<skaller> ah .. 'felix-upstream"
<jamesh> or "felix-bugs"
<skaller> not to be confused with ubuntu and debian package management tho ..
<jamesh> It is just used to differentiate it from other registered external bug trackers
<skaller> yeah, ok, its submitted
<skaller> now I need to link it to the package?
<jamesh> at the moment you can't link from a bug tracker to a product.  You should be able to in the next rollout (about a fortnight from now)
<skaller> ok more confusion: felix is an existing package in ubuntu
<jamesh> ah.
<jamesh> have you registered it as a product in Launchpad?
<skaller> no not yet
<skaller> I thought I'd ask for advise before making a mess
<jamesh> https://launchpad.net/products/+new <- you can do that here.
<skaller> (so i could share the blame after making the mess :)
<jamesh> after that, it is possible to provide a link between the Ubuntu package and the upstream product
<skaller> ok one sec .. doing the 'description' thing :)
<jamesh> take your time.
<mpt> spiv, I need a couple of months' of raw traffic logs from launchpad.net. Do you know how I can get them?
<mpt> (sorry for the slow response-to-pong)
<skaller> kak .. name/display name/title/summary/description .. all asking for the same information in more and more detail
<jamesh> mpt: rt
<jamesh> skaller: the "name" is a short lower-case no-spaces name used in the URLs.  "display name" can have spaces, "title" is used in page titles, etc
<jamesh> summary and description aren't that different ...
<mpt> jamesh, argh. I made an rt request yesterday, but Steve said I should contact you or spiv instead
<jamesh> mpt: I think only the admins have access to the apache logs, but I might be mistaken
<skaller> ok made a product
<jamesh> skaller: okay.  Launchpad has the concept of "product series", which represent separate lines of development
<jamesh> by default, your product has a single series called "trunk"
<skaller> yup
<jamesh> if you make your releases off the tip of CVS or subversion, then you should link the trunk series to the Ubuntu package
<skaller> corresponding to svn trunk?
<jamesh> pretty much
<skaller> ouch ..
<jamesh> on the product series page (e.g. https://launchpad.net/products/felix/trunk), there is a "Link to Ubuntu Package" link, which takes you to a form where you can make the association
<skaller> the Debian packaging goes in another place though
<skaller> it's maintained by a separate Debian group
<skaller> is that relevant?
<jamesh> currently we don't import information about individual debian packages into launchpad, so it isn't.
<skaller> ok .. so is the package name 'felix' or does it need a version number ?
<jamesh> if the source package name is "felix", then that's all you need.
<skaller> ok .. thanks .. now i need the svn name .. 
<jamesh> you looking at the "edit source" form now?
<skaller> Upstream source import
<skaller> ?
<jamesh> yeah
<skaller> sf says:  svn co https://svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/felix felix
<jamesh> you only need to fill in this form if you want us to import your code into a Bazaar branch
<skaller> ack, what's a Bazaar?
<jamesh> http://www.bazaar-vcs.org
<mpt> jamesh, on a completely separate subject, my development machine will soon run out of disk space. Which of these make sense to do? (1) Delete the directories for old branches in my repository. (2) Delete everything except the .bzr/ directory in those branches. (2) Delete the sourcecode/ directory from those branches branches that had entire copies of it.
<mpt> (er, make that last (2) -> (3) :-)
<jamesh> mpt: you shouldn't need to keep working trees around for your old branches
<jamesh> keep your old branches (which should each take about .3MB), but you don't need to keep old working trees
<mpt> So what exactly do you mean by "keep your old branches"?
<mpt> Just the .bzr/ subdirectory?
<jamesh> mpt: can you describe your development setup?  I want to make sure I don't tell you to do something destructive
<mpt> In ~/hacking/lp/ I have a single subdirectory for each branch
<jamesh> e.g. are you using lightweight checkouts from a local repo? are you using independent branches? etc
<mpt> ~/hacking/lp/2005-12-layout, ~/hacking/lp/2006-06-menus, and so on
<mpt> I am not using lightweight checkouts
<mpt> but I am using a local repository
<jamesh> okay.  where is your repository?
<mpt> ~/hacking/lp/.bzr/repository/
<jamesh> so if you run "bzr info" in ~/hacking/lp/2005-12-layout", it lists ~/hacking/lp as the repository?
<mpt> no
<mpt> probably because that wasn't one of the branches I was working on when we switched to repositories
<mpt> so I didn't switch that one.
<mpt> "Format <RepositoryFormat6> ... is deprecated"
<jamesh> okay.  For one of your newer branches, can you verify that it is using the repository?
<mpt> Yes, my trivial/ branch is using it
<skaller> when you're read jamesh yell?
<mpt> oh
<mpt> A newly-created branch isn't using it
<mpt> that's bad
<mpt> 2006-09-bug-46/: "branch root: file:///home/mpt/hacking/lp/2006-09-bug-46/"
<jamesh> this might be why you are running out of disk space :)
<mpt> 29.8 GB of Launchpad code
<mpt> So, first, stop the bleeding
<mpt> What is the proper way for me to be creating a new branch, possibly offline, given a ~/hacking/lp/rocketfuel copy of rocketfuel?
<jamesh> on my system I've got about ~270MB for my repository, some amount for my rocketfuel-built tree and ~ 150MB for each working tree
<jamesh> what do you currently do when you want to start a new branch?
<mpt> cp -a
* mpt cowers
<skaller> lol
<jamesh> mpt: okay.  If you copy an independent branch with "cp -a", you'll end up with an independent branch
<skaller> managing shared development efforts is more work that hacking the code :)
<jamesh> mpt: the workflow I recommend is here: https://launchpad.canonical.com/WorkingWithSharedRepositories
<jamesh> mpt: i.e. keep your branches separate from your working trees.
<skaller> The Launchpad development wiki is not available to the public. 
<mpt> jamesh, are you constantly cd-ing between ~/src/lp/whatever to make run and to run tests, and ~/repo/canonical/whatever to do commits and pushes?
<jamesh> mpt: running "bzr commit" or "bzr push" in the checkout performs those operations on the branch
<jamesh> mpt: I usually only change dir to my repository dir when creating a new branch
<mpt> ok
<jamesh> mpt: the benefit of this setup is that provided there are no uncommitted changes, I can blow away the checkout
<mpt> ok, so sanity-check this for me
<mpt> mkdir ~/hacking/lp-repo && mv ~/hacking/lp/.bzr ~/hacking/lp/
<mpt> urg, I'll try that again
<mpt> mkdir ~/hacking/lp-repo && mv ~/hacking/lp/.bzr ~/hacking/lp-repo/
<mpt> Moving my repository to a separate directory, leaving all the existing branches in place
<jamesh> if you have any branches actually using that repo, you'll have problems.
<mpt> darn.
<mpt> Should I make a new repository then?
<jamesh> creating a new repo would be best
<jamesh> copying the old repo would be second best
<mpt> Which one will mean I'm not stuck permanently with 29.8 GB of branches? :-)
<jamesh> if you are mainly interested in freeing up disk space rather than changing your work flow, try this:
<mpt> Changing my workflow is fine
<jamesh> (1) create the repo with "bzr init-repo ~/hacking/lp-repo"
<jamesh> (2) for a branch you don't care about, do "cd ~/hacking/lp-repo; bzr branch ~/hacking/lp/$BRANCHNAME"
<jamesh> (3) remove ~/hacking/lp/$BRANCHNAME
<spiv> mpt: Yeah, I don't have any direct access to the launchpad.net traffic logs that I know of...
<spiv> mpt: (sorry for the lag, was in transit to poolie's)
<jamesh> now before doing this, make sure the branch you are copying is "Meta directory format 1"
<skaller> hey jamesh, thanks for help .. think it's all set up now
<jamesh> if you branch a really old branch, it won't make use of the repository
<mpt> ok, I want to change my workflow too
<jamesh> skaller: cool.
<mpt> because currently I'm having to do sketchy stuff with ln -s ../rocketfuel/sourcecode ./sourcecode
<skaller> off to do some actual programming .. :)
<mpt> (so as not to have a copy of sourcecode/ in every new branch)
<jamesh> mpt: once you've created the branch in your repo, you can set up your working trees using the steps listed in the "Creating Working Trees" section on that wiki page
<mpt> ok, thanks jamesh
<jamesh> mpt: I've got a script I use to help set up the sourcecode/ trees in my lightweight checkout too
<jamesh> it does lightweight checkouts of my rocketfuel-built tree
<Ubugtu> New bug: #62717 in blueprint "Anybody can target specs at milestones" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/62717
<SteveA> morning
<SteveA> lifeless: isn't he some contemporary philosopher with new-age leanings?
<lifeless> SteveA: no idea ;)
<SteveA> why did you ask?
<SteveA> actually, that's Ken Wilbur
<lifeless> I think I was confused about which list is which
<jamesh> lifeless: fyi: I've put branches to get cscvs and launchpad tests passing with bzr-0.11 for review
<lifeless> jamesh: thanks. Can you bring them to ddaa's attention ?
<jamesh> lifeless: just replied to his launchpad list post where he asked me to look at it.  I'll ping him when he gets up.
<SteveA> jamesh: what's the "null revision" ?
<jamesh> SteveA: revision 0
<lifeless> mmaybe
<SteveA> the cscvs changes look fine to me, although I don't really know the bzr api so I can't be a good reviewer
<lifeless> revision 0 is not always == NULL_REVISION
<SteveA> how is it special?
<lifeless> NULL_REVISION is the implicit origin of the revision graph
<lifeless> it is misnamed
<lifeless> and will be renamed in bzr at some point to be EMPTY_REVISION
<jamesh> SteveA: the cscvs code was trying to decide whether the working tree contained changes, which it defined as (a) having any changes or (b) having pending merges
<SteveA> not GRAPH_ORIGIN ?
<lifeless> SteveA: unlikely
<SteveA> I mean, EMPTY_REVISION seems about as opaque to me as NULL_REVISION
<lifeless> SteveA: theres a bunch of other context 
<lifeless> SteveA: which you dont have right now, in that context EMPTY is likely better
<SteveA> lifeless: do you know how to make irssi not go fucky when scott leaves a channel?
<jamesh> SteveA: normally a working tree has the last revision of the branch as its first parent revision, and any pending merges are second, third, etc parents
<stub> lifeless: it looks like a bzr merge has hung under pqm. Want to have a look, or should I just kill it?
<lifeless> jamesh: tree.changes_from(tree.basis_tree()).has_changes
<lifeless> stub: I'll look
* stub was waiting to run Launchpad tests
<jamesh> lifeless: the cscvs code is doing both that and checks for pending merges
<Keybuk> SteveA: use a better IRC client that understands utf-8?
<lifeless> Keybuk: irssi understands utf8
<SteveA> Keybuk: yes.  apparently irssi does, but there's an interesting combination of term settings and irssi settings.
<lifeless> stub: make sure you are using a utf8 terminal
<SteveA> so right now, some lithuanian characters I can type, others I can read, and still others I can neither read nor write.
<lifeless> erm, stub, stevea
<jamesh> lifeless: do the parent_ids/pending_merges check is not necessary?
<jamesh> s/do/so/
<lifeless> stub: you are good to go
<lifeless> stub: I've killed the job, the rest will proceed as normal
<lifeless> jamesh: one sec
<jamesh> lifeless: would a more correct has_changes() implementation be to check if the parent_ids list differed from just the basis tree revision ID?
<lifeless> jamesh: yes, delta should be fixed
<lifeless> jamesh: right now you do need to check parent_ids
<lifeless> pending_merges is a deprecated interface: just left.get_parent_ids() != right.get_parent_ids() or tree.changes_from(tree.basis_tree()).has_changes() is enough
<jamesh> what are left and right in the above?
<jamesh> if one is the working tree and the other the basis tree, won't they always have different parent IDs?
<lifeless> blech. 
<lifeless> tree.changes_from(tree.basis_tree()).has_changes() or len(tree.get_parent_ids()) > 1
<jamesh> okay.  That'
<jamesh> s what I have now.
<sivang> morning
<jamesh> but it was failing for an empty tree that had a ghost parent tree added
<jamesh> since it was picking an empty tree as basis and len(tree.get_parent_ids()) == 1
<lifeless> ah right. do we have cscvs tests that need ghosts ?
<lifeless> seems strange that we'd need that
<lifeless> baz-import should be the only thing needing such tests offhand
<lifeless> (and point of fact: hwne the left most parent is a ghost then changes *have* occured.
<lifeless> so its correct to show it as changed
<jamesh> lifeless: I doubt it occurs in real use, but a test exercised that case
<jamesh> lifeless: I changed the test to do a commit to the branch first
<lifeless> sounds like the test is/was faulty though
<jamesh> the other way to handle the parent check would be (1) call get_parent_ids(), (2) remove the basis tree's revision ID from the list and (3) check if the list is non-empty
<SteveA> morning malcolm
<malcc> Morning
<SteveA> goedemorgen carlos
<carlos> it sounds like German but I guess it's Lithuanian, isn't it?
<carlos> SteveA: good morning for you too ;-)
<SteveA> no.  it is Dutch.
<SteveA> Lithuanian would be Labas rytas
<sivang> so rytas is morning ?
<carlos> I see
<SteveA> it is
<SteveA> it also means "the east"
<sivang> ah :-)
<sivang> so Labas rytas is something like "hi morning" or so? (recalling Labas is like 'hi')
<raphink> Labadiena :)
<SteveA> "labas" is an old word for "good"
<SteveA> it exists in modern lithuanian just as certain greetings, and in the word for "very"
<SteveA> the modern word for "good" is derived from russian
<sivang> ah, how does it fit in then in "Labas SteveA" ? it just becomes the 'hi' greeting?
<raphink> xorosho?
<raphink> shalom sivang btw :)
<sivang> raphink: hey raphink ;)
<raphink> ma shlomkha ?
<sivang> heh
<sivang> raphink: all is good , and you ?
<raphink> tov :)
<raphink> I'm at work ;)
<raphink> anyone knows why the NEW queue is stuck?
* sivang wonders where raphink managed still to learn some more hebrew
<sivang> raphink: did you meet Shahar recently? he's still in france
<raphink> oh really?
<raphink> didn't see him in the last 2 months
<sivang> raphink: I guess his mostly in Paris these days
<raphink> ah ok
<raphink> and I'm not
<carlos> danilos: hi
<danilos> carlos: hi
<carlos> danilos: did you have a chance to look at my branch?
<danilos> carlos: still having connection problems :(
<carlos> danilos: :-(
<Ubugtu> New bug: #61528 in rosetta "kdebluetooth ignores translations from Rosetta" [Undecided,Fix released]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/61528
<danilos> jordi: ping
<danilos> mpt: ping
<malcc> Our bug number 1 is linked on reddit and climbing the front page, we may want to watch out for any load issues
<shawarma> How do I create a new remote bugtracker? 
<jordi> danilos: hey
<jordi> danilos: I've been on a all morning long meeting
<jamesh> shawarma: https://launchpad.net/malone/bugtrackers/+newbugtracker
<danilos> jordi: ok, so lets leave the KDE stuff for after the LP meeting
<jordi> danilos: ok.
<carlos> danilos: and GNOME
<danilos> carlos: that's right ;)
<shawarma> jamesh: Thanks.
<shawarma> jamesh: Is the "contact details" field supposed to be machine parsable somehow? If yes, what is the format?
<jamesh> shawarma: it is free text
<shawarma> jamesh: Ok, thanks.
<carlos> wow
<carlos> carlos@aragorn:~/Desktop/ooo-edgy-2006-09-28$ du -hs .
<carlos> 916M    
<carlos> that's a full export of OO.org translations for Edgy
<jamesh> carlos: it'd be a bit smaller if you trimmed infrequently used languages
<jamesh> such as languages other than english
<carlos> jamesh: or Spanish ;-)
<stub> Meeting in 29 mins
* carlos -> break
<LeeJunFan> us.archive.ubuntu.com is broken, apache not answering connections apparently, haven't tried ftp - but the host seems up.
<Znarl> LeeJunFan : OK, I'll fix that.
<LeeJunFan> Znarl: thanks.
<ddaa> mpt: dude, give me a bit more than 8 hours forewarning to set up a meeting
<ddaa> especially when those 8 hours fall in my sleep hours :(
<jamesh> hi ddaa
<ddaa> mpt: ping
<stub> Meeting time
<matsubara> me
<kiko-zzz> me
<danilos> me
<stub> me
<salgado> me
<malcc> me
<jordi> me
<spiv> me
<jamesh> me
<BjornT> me
<carlos> me
<spiv> lifeless sends his apologies.
<bradb> me
<ddaa> me
<SteveA> me
<niemeyer> me
<SteveA> mpt will be 5-10 mins late.  sends apologies
<cprov> me
<flacoste> me
<danilos> is my connection lagging, or is the meeting not happening?
<kiko> carlos, only 7 tests fail!
<stub> danilos: I think SteveA is preparing
<ddaa> danilos: your connection is lagging, but since it's lagging you won't see that before you see that the meeting has started already
<stub> Who is up to date with their activity reports?
<malcc> me
<danilos> stub: ah, ok
<ddaa> up to date
<danilos> behind
<malcc> up to date
<bradb> up to date
<spiv> up to date
<BjornT> up to date
<jamesh> behind
<flacoste> up to dat
<salgado> behind
<stub> Looks like I missed two days, so I need to interrogate my log
<matsubara> i'm behind
<carlos> behind
<SteveA> behind
<kiko> I'm behind, but if I was up to date all it would say would be "REFACTORING ROSETTA VIEWS TO DEATH"
<stub> == Agenda ==   * Roll call  * Agenda  * Next meeting  * Activity reports  * Actions from last meeting  * Oops report (Matsubara)  * Bug report report (mpt)  * Production and staging (Stuart)  * Launchpad 1.0 status reports  * Sysadmin requests ----  * (other items) ----  * Keep, Bag, Change  * Three sentences  
<stub> == Actions from last meeting ==   * SteveA to put up a wiki page for the launchpad project to note disaster scenarios on, and mail the list about it  * SteveA to write up what needs doing to implement `__eq__`, `__ne__`, and `__hash__` for database objects
<cprov> up to date
<stub> SteveA: hows it going?
<SteveA> same as last week :-(
<SteveA> I'll do them after this meeting.
<kiko> you said that last week :)
<jordi> I'm one week behind
<danilos> stub: did you reorder agenda items, or did you miss the next meeting one accidentally?
<stub> carlos, jamesh, SteveA, kiko: at least two weeks running late!
<danilos> or, my connection blurped
<danilos> stub: me too :(
<stub> danilos: No - I suck
<SteveA> kiko: I did not.  I said keep them on the agenda for the next meeting. :-)
<stub> Next meeting - same time, same channel?
<kiko> stub, I'll be back in the groove this week. I've managed to fix the issues that I thought I would never do!
<SteveA> I will be on a vacation day next week
<SteveA> although I may be here for the 45 minutes for the meeting
<stub> SteveA: Please appoint a replacement chair
<stub> SteveA: And send a status for those action items before you go on leave
<SteveA> steve ballmer threw the last one across the room
<SteveA> ok
<stub> So same time, same channel next week
<mpt> Hi guys, sorry I'm late, I'm up to date with activity reports, but I haven't prepared the bug report report
* stub hands the mike to salgado for the OOPS report
<salgado> eh?
<SteveA> that's a negative bug report report report
<matsubara> me you mean
* salgado hands it to matsubara 
<stub> erm... matsubara
<matsubara> anyway
<matsubara> Today's oops report is about bugs 58220, 61153, 62466, 28697, 46591
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 58220 in launchpad "When an error occurs processing a request another oops is recorded because there's no interaction set up." [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/58220
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 62466 in malone ""Untriaged" to "Undecided" rename broke search form URLs" [Undecided,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/62466
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 28697 in malone "Bug lists should show current search filter" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/28697
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 46591 in launchpad "Serving everything under SSL causes slowdown" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/46591
<matsubara> Basically when bug 58220 is triggered, the user ends up with a message like: "IntegrityError; A server error occurred." instead of the nice OOPS page saying that something went wrong. Any volunteers?
<matsubara> Stuart can you take care of bug https://launchpad.net/products/launchpad/+bug/61153?
<matsubara> bradb, could you prioritize bug 28697?
<matsubara> stub: ^
<bradb> matsubara: sure
<stub> matsubara: ok
<kiko> bradb, mmmm. maybe resurrect your patch and hand it off for updating and landing?
<matsubara> Bug 62466. Any suggestions how to improve this kind of situation. Maybe fixing bug 1331 would improve it. Or perhaps display one of those BrowserNotification messages saying that the given search parameter was deprecated and offer a alias for some time after the change. Is this feasible?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 62466 in malone ""Untriaged" to "Undecided" rename broke search form URLs" [Undecided,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/62466
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 1331 in malone "Allow recording and use of canned searches" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/1331
<stub> matsubara: Please feel free to prioritize it as appropriate ;)
<kiko> matsubara, I think we just need to be more careful when changing search form parameters.
<bradb> matsubara: how did bug 28697 make the oops report?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 28697 in malone "Bug lists should show current search filter" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/28697
<kiko> matsubara, raisining UFD is okay
<matsubara> stub: I felt scared when you said that could be something evil happening, so I believe you understand the implications of that bug better than me :)
<stub> matsubara: Something evil we are happily defending against, so no need to be scared.
<stub> (just an average day on the 'Net)
<bradb> kiko: yeah, could see how much conflict the search filter patch is in right now
<matsubara> bradb: it's not really an oops but it's more like: let's keep users happy and don't confuse them
<SteveA> so
<SteveA> we could extend the concept of UFD
<stub> UFD?
<bradb> matsubara: i think it belongs on mpt's report, not on an oops report, fwiw.
<matsubara> stub: Unexprected Form Data
<SteveA> to allow you to raise UFD(old='untriaged', new='undecided')
<matsubara> Unexpected even
<danilos> uncertainity, fear, doubt ;)
<SteveA> and have the UFD error page present a reasonable notice about that
* stub expectorates some data
<matsubara> bradb: there will be no mpt report today. :)
<bradb> i know!
<mpt> there might just be
<stub> Ok - mpt's bug report!
<mpt> okie dokie
<matsubara> wait
<SteveA> you could even have a number of renamings / deprecations in the UFD, and have it look in the request to see which are important
<stub> doh!
<mpt> matsubara still has the floor
<matsubara> Bug 46591, how difficult is to use SSL only on authentication? Bug 60803 might be related to it.
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 46591 in launchpad "Serving everything under SSL causes slowdown" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/46591
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 60803 in launchpad "Launchpad has been slowing down recently." [Undecided,Needs info]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/60803
<stub> matsubara: That is a post 1.0 feature
<SteveA> the only thing we could do to speed it up is
<matsubara> and no answer yet for the volunteer call to fix bug 58220
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 58220 in launchpad "When an error occurs processing a request another oops is recorded because there's no interaction set up." [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/58220
<SteveA> to use different host names for some content.  we do that already, though, for the librarian.
<kiko> SteveA, but.. if it's non-SSL it still gives broken padlock.
<SteveA> still SSL
<kiko> matsubara, what do you need to know to fix that bug?
<kiko> SteveA, how would that help?
<SteveA> splitting it among different hosts allows the browser to get more in parallel
<SteveA> there are rules in the browser about not getting much in parallel from the same host name
<kiko> hmmm. 
<SteveA> so, for example, we could serve CSS + JS from a different host name
<SteveA> and that would likely speed things up
<jamesh> although in theory HTTP pipelining should give enough speed
<jamesh> (but it isn't usually turned on in browsers)
<BjornT> matsubara: if no one else volunteers, i guess i could take a look at that bug. i don't think i'll have time to do it this week, though.
<SteveA> we can easily experiement with moving fixed resources to a different hostname
<SteveA> just have resources.launchpad.net, and a config file entry for where resources are served from 
<SteveA> and make sure we're using appropriate links in the main template
<SteveA> or something like that
<matsubara> BjornT: thanks. I might try to fix it if you lend me a hand.
<SteveA> and, seeing as zope's publisher needn't be involved in serving up resources
<SteveA> we could even add aggressive apache cacheing to them
<BjornT> matsubara: sure
<SteveA> reducing the latency for serving them up
<SteveA> so, my point is, there are things we can do that are much simpler than allowing http
<kiko> SteveA, I suspect much much less effective though. would need to measure.
<SteveA> that would likely make the average page load much more quickly
<SteveA> kiko: these measures would speed up http also
<SteveA> but I agree with the need of measuring things somehow
<stub> I personally wouldn't bother until we can spec and implement moving most of out pages to HTTP
<SteveA> I would bother moving resources to a different host.
<kiko> I concur with stub, unfortunately
<SteveA> it is simple, and I think likely an easy win
<kiko> because the experiments I've done.. well, whatever.
<SteveA> have you experimented with using a different host for resources?
<mpt> There is still waste CSS I can remove.
<mpt> Maybe 10 KB of it.
<mpt> or 5 KB.
<mpt> though that might not be a good priority right now.
<kiko> SteveA, not on launchpad, but on other web projects
<SteveA> 5-10kb is small compared to the JS spoo
<kiko> mpt, the connection setup latency is probably worse than the 5kb :-(
<stub> I also don't know if Bug 46591 and Bug 60803 are actually related, or if Bug 60803 is actually a client issue or not.
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 46591 in launchpad "Serving everything under SSL causes slowdown" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/46591
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 60803 in launchpad "Launchpad has been slowing down recently." [Undecided,Needs info]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/60803
* SteveA thinks of a quick experiment on staging -- hack main template to load resources from features.staging
<stub> Unfortunately, we don't have response time metrics. Something for cricket to graph I think
<SteveA> stub: this is down to how browsers are implemented.  there is more to it than looking at a raw ssl+http stream
<kiko> I should point out something odd
<jamesh> that we're half way through the meeting?
<stub> SteveA: But that would not explain a recent slowdown, as that hasn't really changed. I don't think the CSS or number of images has grown.
<kiko> that is /local/ page loads (over http) appear to not be caching resources
<kiko> I'm not sure why though.
<kiko> I'll need to investigate
<SteveA> we're not sending caching headers for them
<SteveA> so I'm not surprised
<flacoste> SteveA: i think funkload can be use for whole pages (html+dependencies) benchmarks
<matsubara> stub: I'm done, btw. perhaps this discussion should be done another time since it's post 1.0 goal.
<matsubara> thanks everyone. specially for all the comments on the slowdown thing.
<stub> ok. We can continue discussing this after if we want to attempt a short term fix.
<SteveA> matsubara: I'll arrange a quick experiment on staging to see if the ssl + many hsots thing will help.
<stub> mpt's bug report is next
<mpt> We are down to only(?) ten Critical open bugs. They are:
<mpt>  * Bug #1558 (Export request form should check for uniqueness of entry), Critical, Confirmed, matsubara
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 1558 in rosetta "Export request form should check for uniqueness of entry" [Critical,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/1558
<mpt> matsubara, will you get that done this week?
<kiko> isn't that fix RELEASED?
<mpt>  * Bug 2497 (/people/*/+translations times out for prolific translators), Critical, In Progress, kiko
<mpt>  * Bug 30602 (Timeout errors in +translate), Critical, Confirmed, kiko
<mpt> kiko, how's 2497 going?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 2497 in rosetta "/people/*/+translations times out for prolific translators" [Critical,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/2497
<matsubara> mpt: it's actually already fixed
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 30602 in rosetta "Timeout errors in +translate" [Critical,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/30602
<mpt> matsubara, cool
<matsubara> mpt: I just need to land a test that kiko will review today. :)
<kiko> mpt, it's being reviewed. I'll finish it beginning of next week.
<mpt> excellent news
<jordi> cool!
<mpt>  * Bug 44214 (We need to add code to prevent POFiles being in the same path), Critical, In Progress, carlos
<mpt>  * Bug 46559 (private), carlos
<mpt>  * Bug 46982 (Rosetta does not accept correct KDE plural forms when there are more than 2), Critical, Confirmed, carlos
<mpt> carlos, do you need to pass one of those to danilos?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 44214 in rosetta "We need to add code to prevent POFiles being in the same path" [Critical,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/44214
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 46982 in rosetta "Rosetta does not accept correct KDE plural forms when there are more than 2" [Critical,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/46982
<danilos> mpt: I might end up  doing 46982 anyway
<danilos> mpt: but i t's blocked on translationimport stuff I am doing
<mpt> danilos, ok, should I assign it to you?
<kiko> danilos, carlos, mpt: pleeease don't conflict with my megapatch or I will die
<carlos> mpt: 44214 is blocked on some test failing and I don't find why
<danilos> mpt: so, nobody can do it before this is finished
<mpt>  * Bug 48860 ("Also notified" makes difficult to unsubscribe), Critical, In Progress, bradb
<mpt> bradb, it's hanging around like a bad smell, what's the news?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 48860 in malone ""Also notified" makes difficult to unsubscribe" [Critical,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/48860
<bradb> mpt: in review
<danilos> kiko: hum, hum, don't die before you submit it ;)
<mpt> kiko, please at least put it up for review before you expire
<mpt> bradb, great!
<kiko> mpt, I did yesterday.
<mpt> good good
<mpt>  * Bug 48948 (dapper indices files still being regenerated but shouldn't be), Critical, Confirmed, malcc
<mpt>  * Bug 62612 (Need a drescher disk space strategy), Critical, Confirmed, malcc
<mpt> malcc, should cprov get one of those?
<carlos> mpt: danilo will take a look today and I will give it a second try also today 
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 48948 in soyuz "dapper indices files still being regenerated but shouldn't be" [Critical,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/48948
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 62612 in soyuz "Need a drescher disk space strategy" [Critical,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/62612
<danilos> mpt: you can reassign it to me, but anyway, carlos and I will have to deal with it, and it's not getting done in the next week (as I said, blocked on ff stuff)
<carlos> kiko: don't worry, my bugs are not related to those views
<malcc> mpt: No, that allocation is ok
<mpt> ok.
<malcc> mpt: we have a way forward now on 48948, a tweak to dsync implementation
<mpt> And finally
<mpt>  * Bug 54241 (We need a script or tool that prunes OOPS logs from sodium), Critical, In Progress, stub
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 54241 in launchpad "We need a script or tool that prunes OOPS logs from sodium" [Critical,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/54241
<mpt> stub, will that be fixed this week?
<malcc> mpt: And the disk space one is at a discussion stage
<carlos> danilos: I prefer that you work on OO and leave the KDE plural forms to me
<kiko> malcc, and I have given an opinion there too! :)
<stub> mpt: Done except for some tests. Given a favorable review, should land mid next week.
<danilos> carlos: yeah, I am fine with it, but who is assigned on the bug is not really important in the next week or so
<danilos> :)
<carlos> danilos: once I finish TranslationReviews I will have time, and it should be fast once kiko finishes his work
<mpt> I also suspect that bug 30264 and bug 31609 should be Fix Released, not Fix Committed. malcc/cprov, can you check those?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 30264 in soyuz "P-A-S support needs proper binary-only excludes" [Critical,Fix committed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/30264
<carlos> danilos: right
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 31609 in soyuz "buildd maintainers need to be informed of build failures" [Critical,Fix committed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/31609
<danilos> carlos: great, thanks
<mpt> Otherwise, that's all.
<mpt> thanks stub.
<mpt> And, thanks stub.
<cprov> mpt: that's right, will update their state
<stub>  * Production and staging (Stuart)
<stub> Production was updated on Tuesday, with two soyuz cherry picks added since then.
<cprov> mpt: thanks 
<stub> I think that the current soyuz branch to be used should be documented on the LaunchpadProductionStatus wiki page - there was a delay in switching soyuz back on because I had neglected to determine this the previous day when people were online.
<stub> Staging is still running BradB's branch for testing. As it has been a week, and AFAIK not updated at all, I suspect that the testing has not been a priority.
<stub> We should try to keep the window when staging is not running HEAD to a minimum, and the alternative (setting up other Launchpad instances) is not nice either as it doesn't happen instantly.
<stub> demo.launchpad.net has grown features.demo.launchpad.net for testing by the Zope community. If this keeps up, we may want to make demo.launchpadd.net a permanent feature (originally we expected to only need it for a month or three). Thanks jamesh for maintaining this.
<stub> Admins have done their half of setting up edge.launchpad.net. It might be running next week depending on if any DB patches get landed before then. For anyone unclear, once a DB patch has been landed
<stub> erm... didn't finish obviously ;)
<stub> once a DB patch has landed, we cannot update edge.launchpad.net any more
<SteveA> +1 on documenting the soyuz branch on LaunchpadProductionStatus
<stub> because the code will expect a more recent database patch level than exists on the production database
<stub> So the tricky part about edge.launchpad.net will be coordinating landing of branches containing database patches to minimize the periods when edge.launchpad.net cannot be updated.
<stub> (done)
<kiko> stub, SteveA: it would be nice if we invent some special processette to deal with db patches.
<kiko> with patches that include db changes I meant.
<salgado> stub, what about changes in lp/dbschema.py? don't they affect edge.launchpad.net too?
<ddaa> sounds tricky since DB patches can be the sort of thing one want landed ASAP because they are often enablers for other developments
<stub> cprov, malcc: Can one of you add a section to that page and keep it up to date when patches are made to production soyuz? I expect this will need to continue due to edgy release, so we should cope.
<stub> ddaa: Indeed.
<salgado> I mean, changes in lp/dbschema.py that don't require a DB patch or update script
<malcc> stub: Yes, will do
<cprov> stub: sure.
<ddaa> stub: I heard the postgres could handle multiple schema with versioning, is that crazy, or could that help deal with that problem?
<stub> salgado: Changes to dbschema.py that would break things will also need a database patch to perform the data migration.
<salgado> I guess not... if they don't require not even an update script, these changes shouldn't be a problem
<stub> salgado: Although production code might break if values are added to the database that the production code doesn't expect.
<flacoste> salgado: they will, a new enum value unknown to the code in production will break validation and display
<stub> salgado: So we need to be aware of the two production branches being run. Perhaps edge.launchpad.net will turn out to be a bad idea and we need to drop it, but I think it is worth giving a go.
<SteveA> flacoste: true, but, they will break production only where edge.launchpad.net was used to set those values
<SteveA> and production can be unbroken by using edge too
<SteveA> so I don't see that as a big problem
<stub> ddaa: re: multiple schemas, I'm not sure what you mean but I don't think that there are features of PostgreSQL that will make this less fragile (only more so).
<ddaa> stub: okay, I was referring to some over-beer discussion I had in the past, nothing very specific
<SteveA> over-beered perhaps
* ddaa show off his blissful ignorance of db matters
<stub> Any other queries or comments?
<kiko> SteveA, I didn't understand what you meant.
<kiko> it's possible that production can't be unbroken by edge, fwiw
<kiko> so I think dbschema updates should also block update.
<kiko> they are fairly rare though.
<SteveA> I'm unconcerned
<SteveA> because they will break one thing in production
<kiko> and we will get oopses
<SteveA> not a whole feature in production
<kiko> and I will be unhappy
<SteveA> and we can deal with that
<flacoste> SteveA: imagine adding a new importance
<stub> It is an issue, but I suspect it will not happen in practice.
<SteveA> I agree with stub
<flacoste> SteveA: it could break most bugs display
<kiko> I would rather not update if dbschema items were added.
<salgado> how often do we simply add new items to dbschema values?
<stub> So I don't think we need to worry about it unless it bites us (at which point we can escape by updating production to HEAD in the worst case)
<kiko> I think it's a small thing for the safety it gives
<stub> And reviewers provide a safety net if people don't think and arbitrarily change dbschema.py values
<SteveA> you *could* load dbschema.py into the database as a source of constraint checking
<stub> Anyway... we are running behind, and edge.launchpad.net doesn't exist yet.
<SteveA> that would prevent edge changing stuff that will not work in production
<stub>  * Launchpad 1.0 status reports
<bradb> Malone 1.0
<bradb> ==========
<bradb> series-and-distrorelease-mgmt: Lives on staging these days; testers welcome. Blocked on decision about ConjoinedBugTasks. Open issue about having different release management permission "modes" for first rollout.
<bradb> keeping-bugs-concise: No news.
<bradb> guided-filebug-form: No news. bradb will be working on it again over the next week.
<bradb> malone-essential-docs: No news.
<bradb> simple-bug-keywords: No news.
<bradb> Other: BjornT to clarify some spec statuses with kiko (i.e. if they can be considered "implemented", etc.)
<ddaa> importd-bzr-native: DB schema cleanup through review, currently discussing how to sever indirect pybaz dependencies through hct, so we could wipe pybaz out of the dists tree.
<ddaa> supermirror-smart-server: basic bzr functionality appears merged, launchpad integration up next, spiv reports it looks on track.
<ddaa> bzr-roundrtrip-svn (postponed): waiting for mpool feedback on bzr ML discussion.
<salgado> Question Tracker 1.0
<cprov> = Soyuz-1.0 Report =
<cprov>  * PPA: blocked on ArchiveRework (still).
<cprov>  * Archive Rework: Moving, but slowly; this week has mostly been
<cprov>    checking things after the deployment and little issues, malcc
<cprov>  * Code quality: usual improvements motivated by code review.
<cprov>  * SoyuzTestSystem: DONE ! redesigned parts are in production, ready
<salgado> ---------------------------------
<salgado> - SupportTrackerWorklow: API is completed. Karma integration is completed. UI is completed. Notifications integration is nearly completed.  Incoming email integration and expiration cronscript are pending. Should be up for review next week.
<salgado> - SupportTrackerViews: Waiting completion of SupportTrackerWorkflow.
<salgado> - SupportTrackerHelp: Waiting completion of SupportTrackerWorkflow.
<cprov>    to edgy release.
<salgado> - LocalizedSupportRequests: Started
<cprov>  * NoMoreAptFtpArchive: nascentupload modified to populate new SPRs
<salgado> Random Things 1.0
<cprov>    properly and prototype script to populate old records
<salgado> -------------------------------
<cprov>  * General Fixing: slow progress
<salgado> - PersonCreationRationale is reviewed and should be in rocketfuel today.
<cprov>    * Fix released: 60440, 59291, 59280, 30264, 31609 (and several
<salgado> - DirectPersonRegistration has a tricky issue blocking its implementation, so it needs discussion.
<cprov>      other, lost the track)
<cprov>    * Fix committed: 31392
<cprov>    * In Review : 62545, 62447, 58835 and 58888
<danilos> Rosetta 1.0 weekly report:
<danilos> - opening edgy for translation: DONE
<danilos> - firefox import/export: slow progress, TranslationImport spec'ed, needs preimplementation call
<danilos> - oo import/export: blocked on firefox (TranslationImport stuff)
<danilos> - translation review: blocked on kiko's restructuring work
<danilos> - essential docs: no progress this week
<danilos> - search: not started, pre-draft stage
<danilos> - checks not to upload wrong language PO file using "too many changes" check: not started
<danilos> - ui fixes: mpt on those
<danilos> - outstanding issues: none
<stub> I've forgotten the date 1.0 is supposed to be done :-(
<danilos> early november, probably best to have everything ready by end of october, no?
<kiko> everything in RF in two weeks time
<kiko> apply for exceptions
<carlos> kiko: two weeks???
<stub> Any comments on the 1.0 reports?
<malcc> I've never quite understood exactly what the 1.0 means in this context
<danilos> kiko, now that's aggressive timing
<ddaa> it was october 8th last I heard of it...
* kiko shrugs
<stub> carlos: Sounds like an exception application is needed
<kiko> we're actually giving extra time
<carlos> stub: well, it depends on how blocking things go....
<kiko> but if you think you will be late you should apply for an exception this week
<stub> Sysadmin requests!
<mpt> RT #16869, which I submitted yesterday, about getting access to traffic logs for launchpad.net
<kiko> and not in two weeks time.
<jordi> danilos: whenever you are ready to discuss essential docs, just ping/mail
<stub> 5
<stub> 4
<danilos> ok, carlos, some work for us then
<stub> 3
<stub> 2
<stub> 1
<danilos> jordi: sure, will do
<SteveA> mpt: that doesn't need an RT ticket!
<carlos> kiko: TranslationReviews should be in time if you finish the restructuring right now!!! :-D
<mpt> SteveA, I talked to spiv and jamesh, and they said it does.
<stub> SteveA: He means features.launchpad.net
<carlos> danilos: yep
<stub> (?)
<jamesh> SteveA: I don't think we've got access to the apache logs
<kiko> carlos, as I said, it's up for review.
<SteveA> we have access to the apache logs
<kiko> only 7 tests failed though!
<jamesh> where?
<stub> gangotri
<mpt> stub, no, that's a separate RT ticket I didn't mention because I don't need it :-)
<carlos> kiko: I saw test failing, but not that it's up to review
<stub> ok - ignore me
<carlos> kiko: I think that I will merge your branch then so I can resume my work
<stub>  * Keep, Bag, Change
<kiko> jamesh, btw, could you review that branch? it has some abstractions you may have a good eye for
<stub> 5
<stub> 4
<SteveA> jamesh: gangotri:/var/log/apache2
<stub> 3
<stub> 2
<bradb> Bag: meetings that go over 45 mins!
<stub> 2.5
<stub> 2.75
<stub> 1
<jamesh> kiko: the rosetta-view-refactoring one?
<carlos> hmmm
<stub>  * Three sentences
<malcc> DONE: Soyuz deployment caught up, and still working! Some ArchiveRework.
<malcc> TODO: Final tidying after Soyuz deployment, more ArchiveRework.
<malcc> BLOCKED: No
<ddaa> DONE: some remove-gnuarch work, started rewriting svn_oo.ChangesIterator (for python import)
<ddaa> TODO: importd rollout, progress on pybaz eradication, implement new ChangesIterator
<ddaa> BLOCKED: preimpl call on ChangesIterator (I might just do w/o one)
<danilos> stub: that's some nice countdown ;)
<jamesh> SteveA: I don't have access to that (mpt probably doesn't either
<carlos> stub: shouldn't it be 2.25? ;-)
<bradb> DONE: Duplicate bug handling changes up for review. Some refactoring in release management, to use LaunchpadFormView.
<bradb> TODO: Land dupe handling changes. Reach a decision on ConjoinedBugTasks.
<bradb> BLOCKED: Reach a decision on ConjoinedBugTasks. (kiko/mark)
<kiko> jamesh, yes.
<jordi> DONE: kde vs. rosetta discussion, email
<salgado> DONE: Implemented the foundations of localized-support-requests, got person-creation-rationale through review, code review and other random things.
<salgado> TODO: More localized-support-requests work, some mirror-management work, code review and other random things.
<salgado> BLOCKED: No
<matsubara> DONE: found the cause of the +export bug, wrote test for it. fetched the fix from upstream and nagged kiko to apply it to our SQLObject tree. Oops report analysi, triage, committed some trivialities. TODO: finish fix for #62423, 33663 and the project +review page to not crash, and more of the same.
<matsubara> BLOCKED: no
<BjornT> DONE: code reviews. upstream forwarding workflow, allowing URLs to be entered, removed the need for an extra click to add a bug watch.
<cprov> DONE: soyuz rollout, soyuz bug fixes, NoMoreAptFtpArchive good progress
<flacoste> DONE: implemented support tracker workflow ui, updated notifications for workflow changes
<cprov> TODO: bugs blocking edgy+1, test new version of A-F in mawson
<cprov> BLOCKED: no
<danilos> DONE: TranslationImport drafting, bug 2181, partial bug 2718, plural forms for several languages
<danilos> TODO: implement TranslationImport, TranslationExport, bug fixing, rosetta search
<danilos> BLOCKED: no
<flacoste> TODO: finish support tracker workflow and get it through review
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 2181 in rosetta "Rosetta automated e-mail should come from @launchpad.net" [Medium,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/2181
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 2718 in rosetta "/products/gnomebaker/+translations has a legend but no chart" [Medium,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/2718
<BjornT> TODO: code reviews. attach files via email. make it easier to register bug trackers.
<flacoste> BLOCKED: no
<carlos> DONE: TranslationReview, Translation view restructuring, bug ,, #58504 and #46559, launchpad.net/rosetta/ navigation menu fixes, dapper translations hole recovery, fixed [|k|ed] ubuntu-docs templates for Edgy, OO.org translation exports for Edgy
<mpt> DONE: bug fixes, specs
<mpt> TODO: page designs(!), talk with ddaa, StructuralObjectPresentation
<mpt> BLOCKED: not really, but lag with Usman is a concern
<carlos> TODO: TranslationReview, finish #44214, reupload Dapper templates polluted by backports uploads
<carlos> BLOCKED: On Kiko finishing translation views restructuring
<BjornT> BLOCKED: no
<kiko> DONE: refactor translation views. NOTHING else.
<jordi> TODO: discuss KDE with danilo & send; some queue
<jamesh> DONE: code reviews, bug export, "bzr branch https://launchpad.net/product/foo" hack, bzr-0.11 compatibility, untangling $series/+source form
<jordi> BLOCKED: no
<jamesh> TODO: code reviews, finish off untangling +source form, get product-release-finder ready for production, get url utils branch ready for review
<jamesh> BLOCKED: no
<stub> DONE: OOPS cleaner
<stub> TODO: edge.launchpad.net
<stub> BLOCKED: Nope
<kiko> TODO: Launchpad report. deal with reviews and land my 4 pending branches. 
<spiv> DONE: bzr smart server, reviews, authserver performance diagnosis
<spiv> TODO: reviews, bzr smart server, smart server/supermirror integration
<spiv> BLOCKED: no
<SteveA> DONE: management, ui work
<SteveA> TODO: management, ui work
<SteveA> BLOCKED: no
<kiko> BLOCKED: review on that branch, but I put it up yesterday 
<stub> Ooh... blocked on conflicts between existing product names (malone, rosetta, bazaar) and pillar-name shortened urls.
<SteveA> kiko: please prepare your three sentences in a text editor, then paste them into channel all at once
<stub> Any blockages there that need to be discussed in the meeting?
<mpt> stub, I was waiting for that to happen
<stub> 8
<stub> 7
<stub> 6
<stub> 5
<stub> 4
<stub> 3
<SteveA> kiko is blocking brad
<jamesh> stub: name them +malone, +rosetta and +bazaar?
<SteveA> and also the rosetta team
<kiko> stub, let's move to +malone +rosetta +bazaar
<mpt> kiko, or bugs.launchpad.net etc
<SteveA> kiko: make sure they know the plan for unblocking them
<carlos> steveA: well, more than kiko, the reviewer for kiko's branch
<bradb> My blockage is simmering on low heat. Not much else to say during this meeting.
<kiko> SteveA, I don't know what to do about CJBT.
<SteveA> kiko: that's a call then.
<kiko> with god?
<stub> ok. Meeting over. blockage discussion can continue ;)
<bradb> heh
<ddaa> mpt: ping!
<SteveA> jamesh: I see that you and mpt don't have access to gangotri.  But that still doesn't make it an RT request.
<stub> SteveA: Any objections to me changing urls to +malone etc. rather than waiting on bugs.launchpad.net to arrive?
<mpt> ddaa, pong
<SteveA> stub: can't we just use the blacklist instead?
<ddaa> mpt: let's set up a time for the call now
<kiko> SteveA, and rename our products?!
<malcc> Can someone explain what launchpad 1.0 is, or point me to the docs, so I can work out whether or not Soyuz needs to apply for an exception?
<carlos> SteveA, kiko: When will we know who should attend Ubuntu conference next November?
<stub> SteveA: Only if we want to rename bazaar to something new
<ddaa> mpt: it looks like the bazaar meeting will be on tuesday next week, so what about monday 0900 UTC?
<SteveA> mpt: which RT issues have you filed about getting logs?  And, considering that stub or I can get you the logs, which RT issues do you still need?
<kiko> malcc, soyuz has falled off 1.0.
<stub> (we can just drop the malone and similar products, which I was going to have as a meeting agenda item but forgot to add it)
<danilos> off to lunch now; BjornT, will you be available tommorow morning for preimplemenation call? re https://launchpad.canonical.com/ITranslationImporter (but I still haven't updated this with latest spec, will do that after I get hold of my other computer)
<carlos> malcc: https://features.launchpad.net/products/soyuz/1.0/+specs
<kiko> stub, well, is there an ETA for bugs.launchpad.net?
<malcc> kiko: Ok, cool
<danilos> stub, anyone: please update the channel topic for the next meeting ;)
<SteveA> stub: so, these are for the application homepages?  +code, +bugs, +translations, +features
<stub> malcc: There are a number of features and bugs flagged 1.0. This is the stuff needed to declare Launchpad 1.0.
<kiko> fallen off, malcc, sorry. I'm kinda bonkey right now
<matsubara> SteveA: at devpad:/srv/launchpad.net-logs/production/gangotri/ there's a launchpad-access1.log. Isn't that what they want?
* ..[topic/#launchpad:stub] : Developer meeting: Thu 5 Oct, 1200UTC (wiki:MeetingAgenda) | launchpad-users@lists.canonical.com (wiki:MailingLists) | Channel logs: http://tinyurl.com/72w39
<SteveA> matsubara: no
<stub> SteveA: Yes
<kiko> matsubara, that's not apache, it's simulated apache generated by the appserver.
<jamesh> SteveA: okay.  I didn't know that we had access to the data, so suggested asking the admins.
<dani[lunch] o> stub: thanks ;)
<malcc> Ok, yes, well it sounds like everyone already knows this then, but let's just say for the record that the soyuz 1.0 specs won't be in place in two weeks. Maybe two months, with a following wind and some luck
<kiko> matsubara, it lacks for instance real client IP addresses.
<BjornT> dani[lunch] o: sure, i should be able to do a call tomorrow
<SteveA> stub: then, please rename them to +code, +bugs, +translations, +features, unless these names conflict with existing names.
<stub> SteveA: Current /bazaar would be moved to /+bazaar. /bazaar would become the bazaar product home page. 
<SteveA> move it to +code, I'd say
<kiko> SteveA, +code or +branches?
<SteveA>  +code
<kiko> I think it was +code
<mpt> SteveA, I submitted one about webstats.launchpad.net not showing features.launchpad.net (which is now low priority, I don't need it), and #16869 on getting the raw logs
<stub> SteveA: ok.
<kiko> okay
<cprov> malcc: so, we can discuss it with managers if necessary 
<dani[lunch] o> BjornT: ok, thanks, I'll ping you when I put the spec up on the wiki so you can take a look before the call if you wish
<SteveA> mpt: ok.  please cancel 16869
<mpt> ok
* mpt throws up his hands in whateverness
<cprov> malcc: AFAICS, just PPA won't be reached, isn't it ?
<SteveA> mpt: what period of time of logs for launchpad.net and features.launchpad.net do you want?
<kiko> cprov, there was not much else for soyuz 1.0..
<malcc> cprov: Yes, that seems likely
<BjornT> dani[lunch] o: cool. i definetely want to read through the spec before the call.
<kiko> jamesh, was that a yes? :)
<SteveA> mpt: the log files appear to be rotated weekly
<mpt> SteveA, you suggested two months
<jordi> dani[lunch] o: I expect to be around at 5?
<jamesh> kiko: about the branch?  Okay.
<cprov> kiko: we bring cron.daily back to reasonable cycles, b-f-n  and ArchiveRework ... they are important.
<sabdfl> cprov: ping
<kiko> jamesh, I'm very happy to hear that
<sabdfl> cprov: how do i see the NEW or UNAPPROVED queue?
<cprov> sabdfl: pong
<kiko> cprov, you're right, I guess
* carlos -> lunch
<cprov> sabdfl: you need admin or archive-admin permission
<sabdfl> as a launchpad-admin, do I have that?
<SteveA> mpt: let's start with less
<sabdfl> +code, folks, and code.launchpad.net
<cprov> sabdfl: the right term is upload_admin, sorry. I think you are lp-admin, let me check 
<sabdfl> cprov: i see no links from the distro home page
<cprov> sabdfl: distros/ubuntu/edgy has a +queue (View Uploads)
<sabdfl> got it, thanks!
<cprov> sabdfl: https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-archive is the upload_admin celebrity
<cprov> sabdfl: np
<SteveA> mpt: chinstrap:/home/stevea/logs/
<kiko> cprov, sabdfl: I'd like us to move all the role-related fields to a single /distros/ubuntu/+roles page
<kiko> which had text that made absolutely clear what the roles were used for
<kiko> are you +1/-1 on this idea?
<mpt> thanks SteveA 
<cprov> kiko: +1, I guess ... to make roles clearer is nice, not sure if we can organize this properly inthe current enviromment.
<kiko> the current mess of multiple pages is reported to be "very distressing"
<salgado> spiv, around?
<cprov> kiko: yes, it is. Very unclear to find out "who is who" within the distro context or "why i can or can't do something"  
<ddaa> jamesh: just remembered
<ddaa> jamesh: I merged my fix for $series/+source yesterday
<ddaa> jamesh: so you should probably merge with rocketfuel to resolve the conflicts
<salgado> do we have any service that could create launchpad accounts using the authserver?
<kiko> salgado, I'm not very sure. what uses authserver apart from the wiki? forums?
<salgado> AFAIK, only the wiki
<flacoste> kiko, salgado: ping
<kiko-afk> flacoste, yessss?
<flacoste> i would like to apply for an exception for the 1.0 deadline
<flacoste> kiko-afk: ^^^
<kiko-afk> flacoste, denied. next question?
<kiko-afk> more seriously, write an email with the request
<flacoste> kiko-afk: ok
<flacoste> salgado: ping
<salgado> flacoste, pong
<flacoste> salgado: how is it going with the localization of support requests?
<flacoste> salgado: i'm afraid we might conflict on that one
* ddaa gears into importd rollout
<flacoste> salgado: since my support-tracker-workflow patch touches almost everything in the support tracker subsystem
<flacoste> salgado: only things i don't touch is the ticket creation, so we might escapce conflict
<salgado> flacoste, I've done only the basic foundations for it. that is, added the necessary columns and turned rosetta/prefs into a generic page where you choose your language preferences
<salgado> flacoste, when do you expect to finish working on your support-tracker-workflow branch?
<flacoste> salgado: I expect to put it up for review monday or tuesday at the latest
<flacoste> salgado: can you push your branch daily on devpad? I could take a look at it and forewarn you of any conflicts
<flacoste> salgado: mine is available as .../flacoste/launchpad/tt-workflow
<salgado> flacoste, okay, so I'll try to check your changes periodically, and use them to plan my work
<salgado> mine is also there, as localized-support-requests, and I push it at least once a day
<flacoste> salgado: cool!
<salgado> flacoste, thanks for the heads up. :)
<flacoste> salgado: i'll take a look at it right now
<flacoste> salgado: np!
<flacoste> salgado: we'll conflict on sampledata for sure, but that's not a big problem
<salgado> flacoste, yeah, I can revert these sampledata changes without problem and then delay any other changes until you've landed your branch
<flacoste> salgado: my branch is huge (now 6050 lines and it will grow), so i expect the review process to be a little long
<salgado> wow. 6k lines
<flacoste> salgado: you might get there first :-)
<flacoste> salgado: mostly documentation and tests though, but still
<salgado> indeed, still pretty big
<flacoste> salgado: apart from the sampledata, up to now, we don't really have significant conflicts
<salgado> cool
<flacoste> salgado: we might have some related to the indendation changes you did to some ticket attributes, but that's also trivial
<salgado> I'll try merging your branch into mine every once in a while to see how things go
<flacoste> salgado: ok
<flacoste> salgado: if you planned to add the language attribute to the ticket edit view, you better do it after merging my branch, i refactored that one
<flacoste> salgado: problem with my branch is that support-tracker-emailinterface.txt fails (that's where i am at now)
<flacoste> salgado: but that should be fixed by tomorrow night
<kiko-afk> carlos, btw, I got rid of some dead code in the pofileview that I can only imagine existed to restrict display of translations with errors.
<kiko-afk> carlos, I have a separate patch which implements that correctly but I need tests for it
<salgado> flacoste, hmmm. okay.  I'll delay the changes on the edit view, then.
<Spads> http://www.launchpad.com/people/nick-zork  <-- known?
<carlos> kiko-afk: ok, if You want that I take a look to that patch...
<Spads> oh eh
<Spads> sorry, someone sent me a bogus URL
<jamesh> ddaa: yeah.  I fixed those conflicts
<kiko-afk> carlos, do you think that feature is worth it?
<kiko-afk> carlos, it's pretty simple to implement -- the patch is tiny
<jamesh> ddaa: I also finished off the bzr-0.11 compatibility fixes
<ddaa> jamesh: I'll wait for your work to land before stepping on your toes further
<kiko-afk> it depends on my patch though
<kiko-afk> carlos, it could be post-1.0 though if you prefer
<carlos> kiko-afk: well, I don't know exactly which part of the code you talk about, I'm just offering me to check it, nothing else ;-)
<carlos> sure
<ddaa> jamesh: I received the email, I plan to have a look after I have done the importd rollout and import herding
<kiko-afk> carlos, for now let's leave it, I can come back to it later.
<jamesh> ddaa: the changes weren't too big, which is good.
<carlos> kiko-afk: ok
<ddaa> *nod* I did not expect them to be big, but I would have had to get familiar with the supermirror code, and learn how to do proper bzrlib testing (ScratchBranch and friends).
<ddaa> since bzrlib is supposed to be mostly stable now
<jamesh> ScratchBranch doesn't exist in bzrlib
<jamesh> there was an unused ScratchDir import in the supermirrorsftp acceptance tests which was causing problems too
<ddaa> okay, that was sort of an easy fix then :)
<malcc> Is there any launchpad news on who's needed at UDS yet?
<kiko-afk> malcc, not yet, but I'm hoping nobody
<kiko-afk> 1.0 is too short for love
<ddaa> jamesh: since I have trouble getting hang of lifeless, maybe you would like to do preimpl about that cscvs change I designed yesterday
<jamesh> ddaa: okay
<ddaa> I plan to rewrite the svn_oo.ChangesIterator not to be utterly stupid, but it turns out to be quite complicated to do correctly
<malcc> kiko-afk: Cool, thanks
<ddaa> so, nevermind if you are tired and sleepy, I do not think it will work out
<malcc> kiko-afk: Let us know when it's final obviously
<jamesh> ddaa: should we try the company voip?
<ddaa> jamesh: it works for me, what you feel most comfortable with
<jamesh> ddaa: okay.  Should I call you?
<ddaa> give me a couple of mins
<ddaa> jamesh: I'm online
<ddaa> jamesh: my skype id is david.allouche
<jamesh> ddaa: didn't seem to connect.  I'll try again
<kiko-afk> carlos, ping?
<carlos> kiko-afk: pong
<kiko-afk> carlos, can you help me with a question I have?
<carlos> sure
<carlos> tell me
<kiko-afk> can you look with me at browser/pomsgset.py?
<carlos> your version or rocketfuel one?
<kiko-afk> carlos, the code which is currently in our tree, not my branch?
<carlos> ok, rocketfuel
<carlos> I have it open
<carlos> kiko-afk: tell me
<kiko-afk> carlos, so the code there does uniquing of the suggestions, correct?
<kiko-afk> carlos, and it does it based on: posubmission.potranslation.translation
<kiko-afk> carlos, is my understanding correct?
<carlos> yeah, it should, but I found some bugs on that....
<kiko-afk> carlos, oh?
<carlos> I didn't debugged it yet, but I have seen our production system showing duplicates
<kiko-afk> hmmm.
<kiko-afk> carlos, so my code is much more simplistic, but I think it's wrong.
<carlos> but yeah, what you described is what is supposed to be the right thing to do
<kiko-afk>         active = set([self.translations[index] ] )
<kiko-afk>         wiki = set(self.context.getWikiSubmissions(index))
<kiko-afk>         current = set(self.context.getCurrentSubmissions(index))
<kiko-afk>         suggested = set(self.context.getSuggestedSubmissions(index))
<kiko-afk>         wiki = wiki - current - suggested - active
<carlos> kiko-afk: I guess there aren't enough test for this
<kiko-afk>         wiki = self._buildSubmissions("Suggested elsewhere", wiki)
<carlos> so don't relay on them
<kiko-afk> carlos, this is my code.
<kiko-afk> it doesn't even look in potranslation.translation
<kiko-afk> at all
<kiko-afk> it's wrong, right?
<kiko-afk> it just uniques the POSubmissions
<kiko-afk> which I thought was correct but now I realize
<carlos> no, it's not enough
<kiko-afk> that two posubmissions can have the same potranslation.translation
<kiko-afk> right?
<carlos> yeah, but for different POMsgSet
<kiko-afk> and getWikiSubmissions would return both, correct?
<carlos> right
<kiko-afk> thanks. I'll fix my code.
<kiko-afk> I SUCK
<kiko-afk> argh
<carlos> kiko-afk: well, context.getWikiSubmissions should remove the ones that currently are set as active
<kiko-afk> ok.
<carlos> kiko-afk: please, could you add a couple of tests for this duplicate removal feature ?
<carlos> wow 5 files with conflicts....
* carlos fixes them
<SteveA> kiko-afk-longarms: I just mailed you about that interview.
<kiko-afk> yeah.
<carlos> kiko-afk: so you fall in class inheritance.... ;-)
<carlos_> kiko-afk: "kiko, 2006-0-27"
<salgado> carlos_, ping
<carlos_> kiko-afk: nice month ;-)
<carlos> salgado: pong
<salgado> carlos, why is the language named 'English' not visible?
<salgado> I mean, why does it have visible = false on production
<carlos> salgado: because translations for 'en' makes no sense, that's the original language anyway
<carlos> salgado: do you need it outside Rosetta context?
<kiko-afk> carlos, faster than the speed of dark
<salgado> carlos, yes
<carlos> salgado:  in Rosetta, people should use en_AU, en_GB, en_US but never 'en'
<carlos> salgado: how are you going to use it?
<salgado> carlos, we're going to allow people to make support requests in multiple languages
<carlos> we use the .visible flag to show it in our UI when no translation for 'en' exists, if there is any translation already, because someone used a hand made URL, or an admin approved it, we show it in our UI
<carlos> salgado: aren't you using Englis (en) as the base language for all support requests?
<carlos> I mean, by default
<salgado> carlos, and I thought I could use Person.languages to track the preferred languages of support contacts and users, to, by default, show only requests on their preferred languages
<carlos> I see
<carlos> in which case, you need 'en' enabled
<carlos> hmm
<carlos> what about 'es_ES' vs 'es_MX' vs 'es'?
<carlos> do you want to allow any of them?
<carlos> or just 'es'?
* bradb & # lunch
<salgado> just es and just en, I guess
<carlos> ok
<carlos> we could improve the system so you can reuse it
<salgado> how can we do that?
<carlos> I guess is not a big deal 'hardcoding' 'en' in Rosetta code to filter it by default, as it's a special case of the way application translation works
<carlos> I mean, the corner case here is Rosetta
<carlos> and it's just one language, so makes no sense to have two flags and two preferences for Rosetta and other parts of launchpad
<salgado> yeah, but I'm afraid we'll need two separate preferences anyway
<carlos> salgado: but that would mean too that rosetta/prefs should be moved to a more general preference to note that it's not just Rosetta which uses it
<carlos> salgado: why?
<carlos> salgado: I think Mark (I'm not completely sure whether Mark did the proposal) proposed sometime ago to have 'Reading preferences' and 'translation preferences'
<carlos> if that's what you are thinking on
<salgado> carlos, because I don't think it makes sense to allow people to make support requests in, let's say, 'en_CA'
<salgado> I think what we have now is too fine grained for localized-support-requests
<carlos> well, that's your special case....
<carlos> I mean, it's just English the special case here
<carlos> either for you or for us
<carlos> salgado: pt_BR is a valid locale
<carlos> or zh_CH, zh_TW instead of just zh
<carlos> the only problematic languages for you that I can remember right now are the en_* ones
<carlos> the others are exactly what you want/need
<flacoste> carlos: well, fr_CA vs fr_FR, fr_BE is too fine grained and I guess the same is true of es_*
<salgado> exactly, that's what I was thinking
<carlos> flacoste: sure, but for support requests and for Rosetta, those have visible = False
<carlos> so those aren't an issue here
<flacoste> carlos: ok, iiuc, the only problem is that en.visible = False?
<salgado> ahh, then I guess everything should be fine
<carlos> one thing we try a lot when we add new languages is to prevent the activation of those languages and adding another field specific for user support will double the work to manage it
<carlos> flacoste: that en.visible = False and en_XX = True
<flacoste> right
<carlos> my proposal is to set en.visible = True and fix Rosetta to handle that special case and handle en_XX as a special case in support requests
<carlos> just to do the right thing
<carlos> if we want something fast and easy, support request could handle too 'en' as an special case
<salgado> yeah, sounds like a plan
<carlos> salgado: I don't think we could do the Rosetta part in next two weeks, but after 1.0 (in two weeks) we could take a look on that
<salgado> carlos, I'll summarize this and send it to launchpad@, just in case somebody wants to join the discussion
<salgado> carlos, ok. I'll have to either workaround that or do it myself then, because this branch is targeted at 1.0
<carlos> salgado: btw, I think that in this situation, the language preferences form should be moved under people/id/+prefered-languages or something like that
<salgado> carlos, it's already there. :)
<kiko-afk> carlos, what should take precedence: Used Elsewhere, or Suggestions?
<salgado> (I mean, in this branch that I'm working on)
<kiko-afk> carlos, i.e. if there is the same string in both, which should we present?
<carlos> salgado: we are a bit behind with the schedule for 1.0 if we see that have enough time to do it I will tell you it
<carlos> salgado: ok
<salgado> carlos, cool. thanks a lot
<carlos> kiko-afk: Suggestions
<carlos> kiko-afk: Used Elsewhere is for entries in other templates
<kiko-afk> okay.
<carlos> kiko-afk: hmmm, in fact....
<kiko-afk> carlos, can you take a look at: http://localhost/distros/ubuntu/hoary/+source/evolution/+pots/evolution-2.2/es/14/+translate
<kiko-afk> and tell me 
<kiko-afk> does that suggestion not duplicate what the active_text is?!
<carlos> Used Elsewhere are for strings that are actually selected/approved in other places...
<kiko-afk> errr, the used elsewhere I mean.
<carlos> kiko-afk: forget what I told you in the first place, in the spirit of getting as much reused as possible, give preference to 'Used elsewhere' over Suggestions, and give more priority to Suggestions than Wiki ones
<carlos> kiko-afk: I get a not found
<carlos> sorry...
<carlos> I need to turn on my local server... :-P
<carlos> kiko-afk: yeah, that's the confirmation of the bug I told you about 
<ddaa> jamesh: looked at your bzr-0.11 branches
<ddaa> jamesh: it looks like the cscvs one is incompatible with bzr 0.9, and that it is a watershed patch like the launcphad one.
<ddaa> But you already know that, I figure.
<ddaa> It all looks good as far as I am concerned.
<Tonio_> I was wondering if http://tonio.homelinux.org/tmp/capture13.png was a bug
<Tonio_> sounds strange that launchpad doesn't find any untranslated strings as 84% only is translated so far...
<ddaa> it might just be that the statistics are lying
<ddaa> IIRC, they are expensive to generate, and are done in batch
<ddaa> there might be a way to display a marker to make it clear when the stats are out of date though
<ddaa> carlos: danilos: is that possible, and if yes, is there already a bug open about this?
<carlos> let me check
<carlos> Tonio_: check for the ones that 'Needs review'
<carlos> ddaa: thanks for the ping
<Tonio_> carlos: yes I've seen this, but should it appear as 100% translated with review needed ?
<Tonio_> carlos: that's a bit confusing in my opinion
<carlos> yeah, I guess, it's a side effect of a missing feature that splits 'fuzzy' from Needs review
<carlos> we are abusing of 'Needs review' feature right now until fuzzy support is in place
<Tonio_> carlos: okay thanks for this info :) I'll just have to wait then.
<carlos> Tonio_: danilo and I want to fix it as soon as we finish some high priorities in Rosetta
<Tonio_> carlos: great ;)
<carlos> we hope to have it fixed before the end of the year, but it depends on how other tasks go (like search)
<carlos> salgado: btw, about language selection
<carlos> salgado: Rosetta uses other sources of information if the user didn't select any language in the language form
<carlos> salgado: like the browser preferences or the geoip info
<carlos> I think you could be interested on those too to offer answers in other languages
<kiko-afk> matsubara, I liked your analysis. building communities by christian reis.
<salgado> carlos, yeah, I'm going to use that too. :)
<carlos> feel free to suggest a better API that fits you and Rosetta
<SteveA> go kiko-afk 
<SteveA> ddaa: ping
<kiko-afk> carlos, for the record, "Suggestions" are translations that are fuzzy, right?
<kiko-afk> carlos, and "wiki" are "non-editor translations"
<kiko-afk> is that correct?
<carlos> kiko-afk: no
<carlos> Suggestions are 'non-editor translations' done in self.context
<kiko-afk> ah.
<kiko-afk> okay.
<carlos> wiki are the same but comming from other contexts
<kiko-afk> okay gotcha.
<carlos> well, non editor translations + upstream ones (if different from the current translation)
<carlos> kiko-afk: I want to note the ones that come from upstream vs the ones that are just suggestions from non-editors
<carlos> but that will be another branch
<carlos> kiko-afk: our system is not able to know whether a POSubmission is fuzzy or not, we store the information inside the POMsgSet object, and that sucks, but that's also another bug/fix
<carlos> kiko-afk: https://features.launchpad.net/products/rosetta/+spec/rosetta-fuzzy-merge
<kiko-afk> carlos, gotcha.
<kiko-fud> carlos, I fixed the bug. the code is not beautiful but...
<carlos> kiko-fud: well, we will improve that later ;-)
<kiko-fud> carlos, https://devpad.canonical.com/~andrew/paste/fileskvfVy.html
<carlos> kiko-fud: - Non-editor translations to this context (non_editor) <- non_editor + upstream when different from current string
* flacoste-lunch has also an appointment with the midwife, so should be back in 2-2.5h
<kiko-fud> carlos, no, upstream is elsewhere. no?
<kiko-fud> oh, upstream is special? 
<kiko-fud> flacoste-lunch, midwife? you in trouble?!
<carlos> upstream translation that we got for this context
<flacoste-lunch> kiko-fud: that's one way of seeing it ;-)
<kiko-fud> carlos, I'm out for lunch, but can you /privmsg me an explanation?
<carlos> sure
<carlos> kiko-fud: I don't see it as ugly as you said... perhaps a small comment to prune_dict method would make it more clear, but nothing more...
<jordi> danilo's not here?
<bradb> jordi: connectivity problems, according to his mail
<jordi> oh
* carlos -> supermarket
<carlos> see you later!
<jordi> carlos: laters
<bradb> kiko-fud: remember this? https://devpad.canonical.com/~bradb/search_filter.png
<kiko-fud> bradb, ah!
<kiko-fud> bradb, would need to be smaller, more discrete
<kiko-fud> discreet I mean
<bradb> to each his own. anyway, i updated the bug report with the branch i put the patch in.
<sabdfl> and possible below the current results
<sabdfl> seems silly to push the results further down the page
<sabdfl> alternatively, use space to the left of results
<sabdfl> kiko, stevea, ping
<kiko-fud> sabdfl, yes?
<kiko> bradb, cool.
<bradb> sabdfl: i think the filter would be invisible under the results, and somewhat invisible in the sidebar
<bradb> it pushes the results a bit down the page, but tells the user exactly what they're being shown, so it's an ok tradeoff, IMHO
<kiko> not sure if we are optimizing for visibility here..
<kiko> anyway, we  can work it out from the patch
<bradb> indeed. wasn't planning on discussing it more, tbh.
<sabdfl> cool
<sabdfl> kiko: we have an interesting candidate, who has another offer on the table, think you can squeeze in a call today?
<kiko> sabdfl, I have this massive report to write up, and I'm in the middle of it
<kiko> sabdfl, what timezone is it?
<bradb> BjornT: ready for that call in a few mins? i'm just pondering an email from spiv beforehand, for discussion.
<sabdfl> kiko: he's in the US, East Coast
<BjornT> bradb: sure. i'll be ready in 5 minutes.
<bradb> BjornT: ok
<kiko> sabdfl, and it needs to be today or it can be tomorrow?
<kiko> sabdfl, if possible I'd prefer the latter, once I've shipped this report to everybody who cares
<sabdfl> kiko: can be a quick interview, this evening preferred if possible, otherwise i'll run with steve's view
<sabdfl> we're not going to make an offer, but i want to give him a reasonable indication of interest
<sabdfl> i mean not make an offer TODAY
<kiko> gotcha
<kiko> okay
<BjornT> bradb: i'm online on skype now. call me when you are ready.
* bradb calls
<Kuhrscher> carlos: I just mailed you the requested tarball
<Yannig> Hello everybody :)
<Yannig> If someone has an idea about https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/gnome-keyring-manager/+bug/62832 :D
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 62832 in gnome-keyring-manager "Difference between "show all" and "show untranslated"" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  
<carlos> Kuhrscher: cool, thanks
<carlos> I guess I should upload it for Dapper and Edgy, right?
<carlos> Yannig: let me see...
<Kuhrscher> Would be nice :)
<Kuhrscher> It's a svn snapshot of the translations of extragear-pim for all languages
<Kuhrscher> It also contains some files for other apps of this module
<carlos> ok
<Kuhrscher> I hope this is not a problem
<Kuhrscher> carlos: if you need something similar, feel free to contact me
<carlos> I will need to split them by domains, but don't worry, it's easy
<carlos> Kuhrscher: ok, thanks
<Kuhrscher> carlos: Great
<Kuhrscher> Ok, bye
<carlos> Kuhrscher: bye
<Ubugtu> New bug: #62832 in rosetta "Difference between "show all" and "show untranslated"" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/62832
<Yannig> Thanks, I saw it :)
<carlos> Yannig: I see 96 messages in both
<Yannig> After translating 3 strings, I can see 93 now
<Yannig> Strange enough :$
<carlos> :-?
<carlos> ok, I'm able to reproduce the error
<carlos> Yannig: thanks for the report
<Yannig> You're welcome :)
* carlos -> out
<carlos> see you later!
<SteveA> salgado: ping
<salgado> SteveA, pong
<ddaa> Okay, importd rollout appears complete
<ddaa> needed a couple of band-aid fixes though
<ddaa> and than uncovered an interesting dependency
<ddaa> our buildbot actually depends on launchpad!
<ddaa> I heard someone say "that's broken dude!"
<kiko> that's broken
<kiko> what does it depend on?
* carlos -> bed
<j-a-meinel> ddaa: howdy
<ddaa> j-a-meinel: I am not sure that the wiki is very relevant
<j-a-meinel> So the lines: We already have an sftp server for the supermirror based on the Twisted Conch server, so we will extend that to run the smart server
<j-a-meinel> is directly contradicted by the next paragraph
<ddaa> j-a-meinel: nobody cares about that spec now
<j-a-meinel> so what do you want me to review?
<j-a-meinel> just the summary?
<ddaa> the whiteboard on the spec page on launchpad
<j-a-meinel> ahh, okay.
<j-a-meinel> sounds a little like you are mixing bzr-0.11 with stuff that will be in bzr-0.12 (the bzr+http stuff). but the status otherwise looks fine.
<ddaa> okay, that's worth clarifying
<ddaa> j-a-meinel: you just said that bzr+http was slated for inclusion in bzr-0.12, didn't you?
<j-a-meinel> There is no bzr+http in 0.11, so it would have to be 0.12
<j-a-meinel> There is a 'bzr://' which is a raw-socket protocol.
<ddaa> okay, then I guess it's more "expected to be included in 0.12"
<j-a-meinel> But it doesn't have any authentication
<ddaa> sure, sure
<j-a-meinel> And has not been vetted to make sure it is safe for anonymous.
<j-a-meinel> (It *does* default to readonly mode)
<ddaa> as lifeless is deeply involved in it, I'm quite confident there will be no glaring security hole
<j-a-meinel> sure. nothing glaring. but security can be pretty subtle.
<ddaa> "dude, don't use squid, lifeless dunno how to make a secure http server" :)
<lifeless> ddaa: morning
<ddaa> lifeless: morning
<lifeless> ddaa: you want that skype call ?
<ddaa> could be useful, I need to braindump a thing to a spec first
<lifeless> sounds messy
<ddaa> lifeless: in the meantime, can you have a look at https://devpad.canonical.com/~andrew/paste/file1NHVKc.html first
<ddaa> the braindumpspeccing should give you enough time to digest that chunk
<ddaa> then we'll talk about it
<lifeless> ddaa: theres no scope
<ddaa> oh
<lifeless> which makes it hard for me to say 'maybe it should do X'
<lifeless> or
<lifeless> 'doing X would be out of scope'
<ddaa> Scope is "process SVN logs so Adds combined with other operations in sub-paths are handled correctly, enable support for renaming and resurrection", bonus points are "remove uncessary remote directory listing operations, optimise data retrieval".
<ddaa> currently, things like "A foo/bar (copied from blah), D foo/bar/baz" cause cscvs to crash
<ddaa> that's bloking the python import
<ddaa> and at least a dozen other svn imports
<ddaa> renaming and resurrection will not be implemented at first, but that design should make that reasonably easy
<ddaa> lifeless: to put it shortly, the scope is "make cscvs support for svn suck less"
<lifeless> ddaa: some thoughts
<lifeless> there appears to be to me too much magic
<ddaa> mhmh, I see no magic here, explain
<lifeless> when x is a ub expression of y it wont be evaluated -> the evaluator has to special case it
<ddaa> ha right, you are reading the initial brain dump
* LarstiQ welcomes jelmer back
<lifeless> y can be simulataneously co-located with z, and when so has the special path ... more magic
<ddaa> look for the class draft at the end, all the magic actually happens in the construction of the expression tree
<ddaa> so evaluation is very straightforward
<jelmer> yeah, connection here is kinda flaky
<ddaa> lifeless: construction of the tree is the pathChanged method
<ddaa> I agree the magic path bit is annoying, but it's necessary otherwise several classes need to explicitely make provisions for Modify changes.
<ddaa> lifeless: I'm up on skype
#launchpad 2006-09-29
<sabdfl> night all
<Ubugtu> New bug: #62886 in rosetta "percent+space considered format string" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/62886
* Nafallo > bed, gnight
<mpt_> Gooooooooooooooooood afternoon Launchpadders!
<sistpoty> hi folks, can anybody help me with a bzr/lp problem?
<jamesh> if you ask your question, they might :)
<sistpoty> i just tried to commit to revu2, but bzr push sftp://sistpoty@bazaar.launchpad.net/~revu-hackers/revu/revu2-trunk/ says it's not a branch (pull/checkout either)
<sistpoty> however sftp://sistpoty@bazaar.launchpad.net/~revu-hackers/revu/revu2-trunk/trunk works
<sistpoty> and then there is this error msg at https://launchpad.net/people/revu-hackers/+branch/revu/revu2-trunk
<jamesh> please don't push branches into subdirs like that.  They won't ever get mirrored
<sistpoty> sorry, for not being more precise, I'm still not really used to bzr :/
<jamesh> sistpoty: it sounds like you probably interrupted an upload the first time
<sistpoty> jamesh: eeks... sorry, how can I fix this?
<jamesh> sistpoty: here is what you can do: log in with a standard sftp client, and remove the files in the branch dir (/~revu-hackers/revu/revu2-trunk)
<jamesh> (you were the one to create this branch, right?)
<sistpoty> jamesh: siretart did, but I'll try if I can delete that stuff
<jamesh> "lftp" might be easier to use here than "sftp" because it can do recursive deletes
<sistpoty> jamesh: ok, thanks
<jamesh> Now, we want to create an empty branch in that directory.
<jamesh> The easiest way to do this would be to create an empty branch locally and upload it
<sistpoty> jamesh: still deleting... give me sec plz ;)
<sistpoty> jamesh: ok
<jamesh> so do "bzr init somedir" to create an empty branch in somedir/
<jamesh> then copy the files from somedir/.bzr to sftp://.../~revu-hackers/revu/revu2-trunk/.bzr
<jamesh> you can skip the .bzr/checkout directory though -- it is not needed in the remote branch
<jamesh> (I think lftp will let you do a recursive put, so it is probably best to use it again)
<sistpoty> ok, seems like it can't do recursive puts :/
<jamesh> sistpoty: sounds like you want "mirror -R $LOCAL $REMOTE"
<jamesh> looking at the docs
<sistpoty> oh, I just do it by hand :)
<jamesh> anyway, the outcome of this will be that you'll have a bzr branch at the remote location that you can push to
<sistpoty> jamesh: ok, thanks very much for your help, I hope I'll get it right now :)
<jamesh> sistpoty: you can check that it worked by running "bzr info sftp://sistpoty@bazaar.launchpad.net/~revu-hackers/revu/revu2-trunk"
<jamesh> that should tell you that it is a branch, and that it has zero revisions
<jamesh> then try pushing to the location
<sistpoty> jamesh: ok, will try that
<sistpoty> yay, yafc can do sftp :)
<jamesh> sistpoty: okay.  Now that the directory contains a valid bzr branch, it will get published correctly.
<sistpoty> jamesh: ok... then I can just push to that location?
<jamesh> yep
<Fujitsu> LP should mirror branches to HTTP every 30 minutes, right?
<jamesh> Fujitsu: yeah.
<sistpoty> hm... I'm still doing s.th. wrong: bzr: ERROR: No such file: u'/~revu-hackers/revu/revu2-trunk/.bzr/repository/knits/72/'
<jamesh> It should be able to create those directories
<jamesh> does /~revu-hackers/revu/revu2-trunk/.bzr/repository/knits exist?
<sistpoty> jamesh: no... 
<jamesh> sistpoty: maybe you didn't copy all the files from the local branch
<sistpoty> grml... yafc skipped empty directories :(
<ajmitch> sistpoty: hm, it was either siretart or possibly myself who broke the initial push
<ajmitch> I know I had problems with it at one point due to the conversion from svn
<sistpoty> ajmitch: ah, k
<jamesh> lifeless: would it be possible to get the bzr-0.11-support branches committed to rocketfuel today?
<jamesh> lifeless: it'll need a simultaneous update to bzr, cscvs and launchpad
<sistpoty> yeeehaa! seems to have worked :)
<sistpoty> jamesh: thanks again very much for handholding :)
<jamesh> sistpoty: okay.  It should be published via http in ~ 25-30 minutes
<jamesh> sistpoty: looks like it is all up and published now: https://launchpad.net/people/revu-hackers/+branch/revu/revu2-trunk
<sistpoty> jamesh: just saw it :)
<ajmitch> thanks for that :)
<sistpoty> yay, big thanks again
<Fujitsu> Is there any sane, machine-parsable way to get information (name, group memberships, email addresses) about a user?
<Fujitsu> I know there's +rdf to get GPG keys, but is there anything else?
<mpt> Not as far as I know, Fujitsu 
<mpt> I suggest either reporting a bug, or mailing launchpad-users@, describing what you want to use the data for
<mpt> and what sort of format would suit you
<Fujitsu> Also, is there a way to translate an email address to a username other than using the search form at /people?
<sistpoty> gn8 everyone
<lifeless> jamesh: probably. I'll see what I can do
<jamesh> so Lenovo will send me a non-exploding battery in 5 weeks
<lifeless> lol
<jamesh> I'm pretty sure it isn't a coincidence that we get a long weekend for the grand finals
<realist> Not everyone has a long weekend...
<jamesh> nsw and wa do, at least
<jamesh> labour day and queen's birthday respectively
<jml> tas has to wait til October :\
<SteveA> morning
<stub> Morning
<SteveA> jamesh: what a coincidence that the Queen was born on Labour day
<SteveA> considering that birth involves the process known as "labour"
<Fujitsu> Er, the queen was born on April 21...
<SteveA> if the queen's birthday can be celebrated on a day that isn't her birthday, then her labour can be celebrated on a different day too ;-)
<carlos> morning
<SteveA> hi carlos
<shawarma> I'm mighty confused.. https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/network-manager/+bug/62862   <- It says it's a bug in network-manager, Keybuk writes something about upstart, but the activity log says the reporter reported it on gparted..
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 62862 in network-manager "Atheros w-lan card doesn`t work on edgy live!" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  
<Ng> shawarma: that's a dupe of another bug...
<shawarma> How does that explain anything?
<Ng> bug 60938
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 60938 in linux-restricted-modules-2.6.17 "ath_hal missing from modules.dep" [High,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/60938
<Ng> it's a bug in the livecd, it doesn't have a complete depmod output
<shawarma> I don't really care much about the actual bug. I'm just totally puzzled by the info available on LP about it.
<Ng> confusion, one would assume :)
<Keybuk> shawarma: someone assigned it to upstart
<shawarma> Ng: The activity log says it was reported on gparted, Keybuk adds a comment about startup, but the bug now seems to be attached to network-manager. 
<shawarma> Keybuk: Doesn't that usually show up in the activity log?
<Keybuk> shawarma: yeah, the event is the 21;22 one
<Keybuk> he changed it *from* gparted to upstart, but for some reason the Old value and New value columns are blank
<Keybuk> err, sorry
<Keybuk> I mean he changed it from upstart to gparted
<Keybuk> no, maybe I don't
<shawarma> LOL!
<Keybuk> ** Affects: upstart (Ubuntu)
<Keybuk>      Importance: Undecided
<Keybuk>          Status: Unconfirmed
<Keybuk> ** Changed in: gparted (Ubuntu)
<Keybuk> Sourcepackagename: gparted => upstart
<Keybuk> that's the LP e-mail I got
<Ng> shawarma: hmm, well I have no idea about that, but thanks anyway for mentioning it since it's a bug I care about :)
<shawarma> Keybuk: Perhaps there's a delay in the activity log to allow for comments to be added or something?
<Keybuk> shawarma: LP bug, more likely <g>
<shawarma> Keybuk: Probably. I'll file a bug.
<BjornT> shawarma, Keybuk: yeah, that's a known bug. (bug 41063)
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 41063 in malone "Mail notification of bug creation includes things that haven't happened yet" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/41063
<BjornT> i think there's also a bug open on package re-assignments not showing up in the activity log
<realist> Time travel?
<shawarma> BjornT: There's several of them, it appears.
<shawarma> BjornT: Oh, my mistake.
<jamesh> sabdfl: sounds like your laptop might have a potentially exploding battery
<sabdfl> apparently. i like to live on the edgy, y'see
<jamesh> they're sending me a replacement in 5 weeks
<sabdfl> was it easy to organise?
<jamesh> just rang the number on the website, went through a voice menu (just two prompts) and gave them the machine and battery details 
<realist> dell, or apple?
<danilos> lenovo
<danilos> ;)
<jamesh> yeah.  It's a Thinkpad X60s
<realist> Looking at getting a Toshiba Libretto U100 myself.
<carlos> I wonder how's possible that Sony fuck all batteries from other companies and their own laptops don't have the same problem....
* realist wonders why you use such 'colourful' language.
<carlos> is s/fuck/include bombs in/ better? ;-)
<realist> Much better :-)
<realist> Speaking of laptops, the new intel macbooks are cute
<SteveA> I'm upset with apple and their choice of DVD drives.  The matsushitas they come with have region coding built into the hardware.
<SteveA> I think I'll be buying an external DVD for my mac mini
<carlos> SteveA: I though all drivers include it
<carlos> letting you to change it 4-5 times
<SteveA> yes
<SteveA> I a few DVDs from three different regions
<SteveA> oh, and they don't play DVDs encoded for two regions at once at all :-/
<SteveA> which is common in e. europe
<jamesh> SteveA: you can't get a hacked firmware?
<SteveA> no
<SteveA> doesn't exist
<SteveA> and is unlikely to
<SteveA> because matsushita have put the region coding stuff on a different chip, apparently
<jamesh> there are some hacked firmwares that move the location of the region change counter from flash to ram
<jamesh> so each time you put the machine to sleep or turn it off, the counter resets
<SteveA> so it isn't updatable unless you arm yourself with a fine nose soldering iron
<realist> SteveA: I may have to test the macbook on our desk at work.
<realist> s/our/my/
* carlos -> bank
<carlos> will be back in 30 minutes
<SteveA> spiv: ping
<tfheen> is it a known (and filed) bug that sorting on https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+milestone/ubuntu-6.10 seems to be.. odd?  Clicking "status" seems to sort by importance, assignee sorts by bug name, importance by bug nr, while report sorts by bug nr?
* carlos -> lunch
* SteveA --> lunch
<BjornT> tfheen: yeah, i saw a bug filed about that not long ago.
<BjornT> tfheen: bug 62495
<tfheen> BjornT: any idea about the bug # and ETA?  It's quite painful when I need to look at the list of unfixed bugs for a milestone
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 62495 in malone "Milestone bug list doesn't sort properly" [Undecided,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/62495
<tfheen> oh, thanks
<BjornT> tfheen: i'll take a look at it today to see how hard it is to fix.
<tfheen> excellent, thanks.
<tfheen> I'll add a comment to the bug too
<jamesh> tfheen: just click on the column header two to the right of the column you want to sort on
<tfheen> jamesh: not enough columns.
<tfheen> I want to sort by status
<jamesh> tfheen: okay.  In the meen time, try using https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+bugs?advanced=1 and select the milestone you want to limit the search to
<jamesh> e.g. https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+bugs?field.searchtext=&orderby=status&field.status%3Alist=Unconfirmed&field.status%3Alist=Needs+Info&field.status%3Alist=Rejected&field.status%3Alist=Confirmed&field.status%3Alist=In+Progress&field.status%3Alist=Fix+Committed&field.status%3Alist=Fix+Released&assignee_option=any&field.assignee=&field.owner=&field.milestone%3Alist=146&field.component-empty-marker=1&field.status_upstream=&field.sta
<jamesh> tus_upstream-empty-marker=1&field.omit_dupes.used=&field.omit_dupes=on&field.has_patch.used=&field.tag=&field.has_no_package.used=&search=Search
<tfheen> jamesh: yeah, I guess that's a workaround.
<Ubugtu> New bug: #62965 in launchpad-bazaar "https://launchpad.net/bazaar/+all-branches should be batched" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/62965
<salgado> spiv, around?
<carlos> danilos: around?
<danilos> carlos: yes
<carlos> could we have a fast meeting about 1.0 goals?
<shawarma> win 1
<shawarma> doh...
<danilos> carlos: sure
<flacoste> salgado: ping
<salgado> flacoste, pong
<flacoste> salgado: just another conflict warning for your localized-support-request implementation: i refactored the notification mechanism for tickets
<flacoste> salgado: hopefully, it will make it easier to implement what you need
<salgado> flacoste, cool.   unfortunately, it's looking like that spec will need to be discussed a bit before I can move on. and I guess independently of the outcome of the discussion, I'll have quite some work to do on things not directly related to the support tracker
<salgado> the good thing is that we're less likely to conflict
<flacoste> salgado: ok, fine
<pecisk> anyone here could say me where I should talk/disscuss about translation template files in Launchpad?
<flacoste> salgado: do should we apply for an exception for that spec? i did yesterday for support-tracker-views, i think i might miss the oct 12th deadline by a bit
<Ubugtu> New bug: #62976 in soyuz "duplicate package/version allowed in unapproved queue" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/62976
<salgado> flacoste, yeah, I'm considering that. I'll just wait until monday to see how the discussion goes
<salgado> I mean, I think an exception will be necessary; I just want to be sure
<BjornT> pecisk: you should talk to jordi, carlos or danilos
<pecisk> carlos: I wanted to know how pot files get created? Simply in Edgy when I merge nautilus.pot file from it with GNOME 2.16 release nautilus.po, I get lot of string wrong in GUI in the end 
<pecisk> BjornT: thanks for info
<carlos> pecisk: the .pot files are generated when a .deb package is built
<carlos> usually, using intltool-update -P
<carlos> could you show me an example of the problem you get?
<pecisk> Yeah
<pecisk> carlos: it is rather simply. Nautilus provides "Computer" for GNOME panel menu and desktop, but in my language instead of that I get translation of "Countertop"
<pecisk> it happens when I merge pot file with GNOME 2.16 release po from my language
<pecisk> when I compile "clean" po file from GNOME and put it into /usr/share/locale-langpack/lv/LC_MESSAGES, everything is ok
<pecisk> I am tempted to upload GNOME po file instead of merging with pot file from Launchpad, but I am not sure it won't cause any other problems
<danilos> pecisk: someone must have submitted wrong translation using Rosetta, can you give a pointer to language and string in question?
<carlos> pecisk: but, did you check that the .po file from Ubuntu has the right translation?
<pecisk> carlos, I did, it has
<carlos> then, I don't see the error...
<carlos> how do you merge the .po file with the .pot file?
<pecisk> carlos: and it doesn't even matter, because I merged GNOME po from official sources with pot file from Ubuntu. Before that, in official po file everything was in right place. After merge, final po has several places where Computer was replaced with Countrertop
<carlos> I'm a bit lose
<carlos> could you show me the commands you used?
<pecisk> msgmerge nautilus.gnome-2.16.lv.po nautilus.pot -o nautilus-final.po
<danilos> pecisk: do they also have the "#, fuzzy" comments next to them?
<pecisk> danilos: no, that was why they appeared in GUI
<carlos> pecisk: if the lv.po file has the right translation for the "Computer" string
<pecisk> it has
<carlos> pecisk: and the .pot file has a msgid with "Computer"
<carlos> the output of the merge should have the right translation too
<carlos> otherwise, msgmerge is not working as it should
<carlos> pecisk: could you confirm this?
<pecisk> lv.po has "Computer" right, and pot has "Computer" too, but in the end there is different term
<pecisk> however, in comments, there is slight differences to references to C files
<danilos> pecisk: hum, I just retried this and everything worked fine for me
<carlos> pecisk: the new .po file should have the references in the .pot file
<danilos> pecisk: I took http://l10n-status.gnome.org/gnome-2.16/PO/nautilus.HEAD.lv.po as the lv.po file
<carlos> so that's normal
<pecisk> hmmmmm
<carlos> about the translation being different... that smells like a but in msgmerge
<carlos> but that's weird....
<danilos> pecisk: "Computer" in merged file is translated as "Dators"
<danilos> pecisk: so, what version of msgmerge do you have?
<pecisk> danilos: maybe then I merge wrong?
<danilos> pecisk: no, I used exactly the same command
<pecisk> pecisk@pecisk-desktop:~$ msgmerge -V
<pecisk> msgmerge (GNU gettext-tools) 0.14.6
<danilos> (apart from filenames)
<danilos> that shouldn't be a problem, though I have 0.14.5
* ddaa starts reading amout OneZeroPageLayout
<ddaa> "Most pages in Launchpad should have fourteen sections" duh?
<carlos> pecisk: anyway, if you want, you can upload the .po file into Rosetta and Rosetta will handle the merge
<pecisk> danilos: I will check again all my steps
<pecisk> carlos: ooh, that's what I wanted to hear
<danilos> pecisk: yeah, but I've never seen something like that happen
<carlos> pecisk: we do the merge with the template with every import
<carlos> automatically
* pecisk sights
<carlos> pecisk: anyway, you should report that problem with msgmerge
<pecisk> everything is fine, very sorry for bothering you guys
<carlos> are you using a package version of it or your own version?
<pecisk> found what was cause
<pecisk> corrupt po file
<carlos> I see
<pecisk> damn, never trust third parties :)
<danilos> well, parties are for fun :)
<pecisk> and doin crazy things
<pecisk> I know
<pecisk> thanks anyway for help
<pecisk> have a nice weekend :)
<carlos> pecisk: same for you!
<rraphink> hi
<rraphink> is there an easy way to request an import from Debian?
<kiko> rraphink, I think the process is file a bug
<kiko> rraphink, ask on #ubuntu-devel
<rraphink> ok
<rraphink> I thought taht was the way
<rraphink> but then file a bug on which package? :s
<kiko> I'm not sure -- ask there
<salgado> rraphink, I think you file the bug on the package you want to sync and assign a special team to the bug
<salgado> rraphink, yeah, assign the https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-archive team to the bug
<rraphink> salgado: the package doesn't exist in Ubuntu yet
<rraphink> oh yes that's what I did last time
<rraphink> just filed a bug in ubuntu without assigning a package
<rraphink> and added ubuntu-archive
<kiko> right
<rraphink> thanks
<rraphink> :)
<salgado> np. :)
<sfllaw> Does anyone here manage cricket?
<salgado> sfllaw, stub
<sfllaw> salgado: Thanks.
<Ubugtu> New bug: #63000 in malone "Need a way to protect milestone and importance differently from the rest of IBugTask" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/63000
<ddaa> I'm thinking that launchpad bug numbers are bound to become unwieldly
<ddaa> if adoption takes off, they can get into the 7 digits realm
<ddaa> 5 digits is already annoying enough (hard to remember, high potential for typos)
<carlos> ddaa: copy & paste is the key! :-D
<ddaa> it's a workaround
<ddaa> if we wanted people to copy-paste, we'd be using a uuid or something like that
<mdke> matthewrevell: around?
<matthewrevell> mdke: hello, yes
<carlos> mdke: hi
<mdke> carlos: hiya. all well?
<carlos> mdke: yeah, we imported all documentation from *ubuntu-docs
<mdke> from the packages in the archive right?
<carlos> mdke: Could you include .po files for those packages inside the source packages?
<carlos> mdke: right
<carlos> that way our users will know the amount of strings that you already include in the repository
<carlos> mdke: In fact, I don't understand how's that you don't do the .po -> .xml conversion on build time (I think you don't do that, I didn't look at the source)
<mdke> heh, danilo can tell you that
<mdke> the xml needs a lot of manual correction after conversion
<mdke> including the po's is no problem, sure
<mdke> I'll write it down so I don't forget - I just got back from vacation and will be fairly busy catching up
<danilos> mdke: well, we can extend ubuntu mode to do any correction we want
<danilos> mdke: though, for that part, talk with danilo, the free software guy (he is usually around on weekends ;))
<mdke> haha. Ok
<mdke> the error corrections are generally quite random typos though, or people translating tags
<carlos> ;-)
<carlos> ok
<danilos> ah, that... right :)
<danilos> we can add xml-format checking to rosetta even if msgfmt doesn't have that, anyway
<carlos> mdke: well, I think including the .po files would be enough, the build part is just a suggestion to reduce the amount of work needed
<danilos> though, bruno haible was interested in adding that to msgfmt, it just needs someone working on it ;)
* mdke nods at everybody
<danilos> bruno haible == gettext maintainer :)
<carlos> I would prefer msgfmt fix
<carlos> danilos: if you think you can do that, ask steve/kiko to see if we can do it as part of our tasks
<mdke> ok, I'm off, my mailing list backlog is so scary I need to turn off the computer
<danilos> carlos: sure, so fixing this on rosetta level might involve writing some gettext C code, and I am completely fine with that myself :)
<danilos> mdke: welcome back :)
<mdke> thanks, catch you soon
<Ubugtu> New bug: #63009 in launchpad "Update oops-tools to not show google cached site as referred from local sites." [Low,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/63009
<danilos> carlos: right, but this is really not a priority right now
<carlos> hmm, well, it wouldn't be msgfmt, but a xml-format or something like that
<carlos> otherwise Rosetta will not be able to use it
<carlos> right
<carlos> not a high priority
<salgado> malcc, just mailed you a review of deathrow-fix
<malcc> salgado: Thanks
<salgado> carlos, I should have CCed you on my las email (subject: LocalizedSupportRequests) to launchpad but I forgot. it'd be nice if you could have a look and see if the plan I'm proposing there looks sane
<malcc> salgado: I'll do all that. The reason for the 35 vs. 0 is, when I filed the bug I assumed no underlying API was doing anything with a size when a symlink was deleted; when I did the implementation I found that it was just a broken chain of return values, and once it was complete the symlinks returned accurate sizes. Of course their real size isn't zero, I was just planning to approximate :)
<carlos> salgado: I saw it
<carlos> salgado: and at first sight, I think it's ok
<salgado> malcc, ah, I see. you have r=salgado with these changes then. :)
<malcc> salgado: Thanks :)
<salgado> carlos, cool. thank you!
<jordi> danilos: wow man
<jordi> danilos: it's been difficult to meet you with the non-stop meetings I've been having and your connection woes
<jordi> danilos: will you be around on Sunday? :P
<danilos> jordi: actually, I will :)
<jordi> danilos: that's good
<danilos> jordi: and Sunday is as good for this as any other day :)
<jordi> I nheed to go to Sitges to finish the flat emptying, but could be around on Sun
<jordi> soon that house will be no more :(
<danilos> oh, you still haven't sold it? or just haven't turned the keys over yet?
<jordi> no, we're still giving away furniture and stuff
<danilos> yeah, it's a really nice and huge place :(
<danilos> and the beach in Sitges is crazy! ;)
<jordi> it's mostly empty now. what remains is stuff nobody wants.
<jordi> *totally*
<jordi> wait, you mean the one near the church?
<jordi> not the GAY NUDE BEACH?
<jordi> :P
<jordi> wow, I think I never posted the post-guadec blog entry.
<jordi> That had pics of the ay zone
<jordi> totally great for the planets
<danilos> heh
<jordi> of course I also have a pic or two of the other beach
<danilos> yeah, I didn't either... and I should upload my photos, I have a bunch of photos of you modelling, for example ;)
<danilos> "almost" nude ;)
<danilos> (i.e. just made for planets)
<jordi> lol
<jordi> ok
<jordi> I should get prepared to leave
<danilos> ok, enjoy some of the last moments in sitges, where you felt at home :P
* jordi beats up danilos 
<jordi> I'm going to mail you a  pic of me in the GAY, NUDE BEACH
<jordi> apologies to #launchpad about this conversation :)
<danilos> hah, I'll be waiting ;)
<danilos> jordi: though, no need to apologize, launchpadders are not discriminative :P
<danilos> anyway, stopping now :)
<SteveA> kiko: pingo
<salgado> SteveA, he just left to have lunch
<SteveA> thanks salgado.  I got a quick word in with kiko :-)
<rraphink> 49959
<salgado> ah, right. sometimes I forget to check the timestamps of messages. :/
<matthewrevell> SteveA: ping
<SteveA> hi matthewrevell 
* carlos -> out
<carlos> later
<carlos> kiko: around?
<kiko> carlos, yes?
<Ubugtu> New bug: #63022 in soyuz "New icons needed for soyuz +queue page." [Low,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/63022
<kiko> hey BjornT?
<BjornT> hi kiko 
<kiko> BjornT, interested in looking at a patch for externalbugtracker.Bugzilla that makes it work for /any/ version of bugzilla?
<BjornT> kiko: sure
<kiko> bad news: no tests. good news: works. :)
<kiko> https://sodium.ubuntu.com/~andrew/paste/fileO6CtL5.html
<kiko> it supports issuezilla as well
<BjornT> kiko: does issuezilla really expect bug ids to be separated with ':', and not ',' like bugzilla? (when requesting the xml list)
<kiko> BjornT, yes. 
<matsubara> bzr is funny.
<matsubara> $ bzr push --overwrite
<matsubara> -2 revision(s) pushed.
<kiko> matsubara, yeah, I think it's known. did you bzr uncommit perchance?
<matsubara> kiko: no, the branch I was pushing into was 2 rev ahead. that's why I overwrote it.
<kiko> ah
<BjornT> kiko: well, the code looks mostly good, but you should catch the exceptions you added somewhere. they shouldn't fall through to the unexpected-exception handler.
<kiko> BjornT, oh. 
<BjornT> kiko: and i think some basic tests are required for merge approval as well :)
<kiko> BjornT, yeah. one question is: how to test the form?
<BjornT> kiko: i guess you'd have to either extend or add a new TestBugzilla, to accept different form variables/page names depending on which version it is. it's not that nice, but it's hard to test it properly.
<kiko> okay
<kiko> BjornT, it's so easy to manually test this if you can assume internet, btw.
<BjornT> yeah, i know. i don't think we want add such tests to the pqm test suite, though :) although, it wouldn't hurt having some test scripts that you could run manually from time to time.
<kiko> yeah.
<ddaa> evil spiv requested a svn import of twisteh
<ddaa> twisted
* carlos -> out
<carlos> enjoy your weekend!!!
<kiko> salgado, matsubara: I may have time for your reviews today
<salgado> kiko, that'd be great!
<kiko> matsubara, salgado: URLs?
<matsubara> kiko: https://sodium.ubuntu.com/~andrew/paste/filePMAijq.html mainly a pagetest conversion and a way to reproduce bug 1558 (which is now gone with your SQLObject patch)
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 1558 in rosetta "Export request form should check for uniqueness of entry" [Critical,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/1558
<salgado> kiko, https://sodium.ubuntu.com/~andrew/paste/filed51aL6.html ; it will also show up on pending-reviews quickly
<kiko> salgado, 'lib/canonical/testing/layers.py' ?
<salgado> kiko, yeah, unused import
<kiko> drop it! :)
<salgado> there was a bug there, an undefined name, which I fixed but somebody fixed that and merged before I did
<salgado> luckily, bzr is smart enough to not conflict
<kiko> I see.
<kiko> +          <a tal:attributes="href mirror/http_base_url"
<kiko> won't that crash if the mirror doesn't have one?
<salgado> depends
<salgado> actually, it won't crash, for sure
<kiko> salgado, can you summarize in points what this patch does?
<salgado> kiko, Fix [WWW]  bug 60235, enable probing of ftp-only mirrors and remove lots of unused code.
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 60235 in launchpad "Disabling mirrors when they fail a single probe is not fair" [High,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/60235
<kiko> salgado, distributionmirror-prober crack gone? I thought you were saying that was useful?
<salgado> eh?
<salgado> what crack?
<kiko> > === removed file 'lib/canonical/launchpad/pagetests/standalone/xx-distributionmirror-proberlogs.txt'
<kiko> salgado, did you send me an inverted patch?
<salgado> I guess so
<salgado> kiko, https://devpad.canonical.com/~andrew/paste/filesdA1RE.html
<salgado> sorry for that
<kiko> salgado, mmmmmm
<kiko> THAT'S why nothing was making sense
<salgado> then you should have guessed... or do you think I'd write code that doesn't make any sense?
<Ubugtu> New bug: #63052 in launchpad "fmt:shorten should ellide at word boundaries" [Low,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/63052
<kiko> salgado, I hate to say I know there have been cases
<ddaa> code always make sense
<ddaa> it's all a matter of perspective
<kiko> it's all a matter of CRACK
<ddaa> crack is a matter of perspective, and sometimes perspective might be a matter of crack indeed...
<kiko> salgado, wtf is david talking about?
<salgado> crack?
<ddaa> Don't worry, I've been doing import herding and debugging for 2.5 hours
<ddaa> svn crack
<ddaa> cvs crack
<ddaa> user input crack
<kiko> stop scaring us
<ddaa> just found a particularly clever CVS repo that breaks cscvs in a way that is entirely new to me
<kiko> ddaa, if only fixing cscvs was as easy as fixing externalsystem.Bugzilla
<kiko> I fixed /all/ failing cases we have at the moment in about 20 minutes
<ddaa> don't worry, yesterday I came up with a design that should fix most of our svn failures when I implement it
<ddaa> and SteveA supports my focusing in it next week
<ddaa> it was all a matter of getting the right perspective :)
<salgado> hmmm. gotta run. friday night classes. :-(
#launchpad 2006-09-30
<amicrawle> need help please
<Ubugtu> New bug: #63106 in launchpad "https://launchpad.net/products/+new ignores "Programming Language"" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/63106
<Yannig> Hello everybody :)
<kiko> ahoy
<Ubugtu> New bug: #63170 in rosetta "Language name error (Occitan)" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/63170
<Ubugtu> New bug: #63182 in Ubuntu "fglrxinfo returns mesa drivers in edgy" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/63182
<Ubugtu> New bug: #63236 in rosetta "Change the +export page message to a BrowserNotification message." [Low,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/63236
<zwnj> hi there
<zwnj> when is the deadline of translations for Edgy?
<WaterSevenUb> zwnj, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdgyReleaseSchedule
<zwnj> WaterSevenUb: oh, thanks :)
<zwnj> kiko-zzz: ping
<brauliobh> Algum do Brasil ?
<guillaumh> hello
<guillaumh> on Rosetta, is it possible to make a search among all strings that exist in all the ubuntu packages ?
<guillaumh> it's because i have seen some untranslated strings in edgy, and i would like to translate them, like "Email file" in the context menu of konqueror
<jordi> guillaumh, not yet
<jordi> oh
<radix> I seem to be having problems pushing to a branch on launchpad that used an older version of the bzr format. I'm trying to push an upgraded branch. Are problems expected here?
<radix> the http interface on launchpad is also having problems reading the currently-published branch, apparently
<radix> https://launchpad.net/people/subol-hackers/+branch/subol/shared.dev
#launchpad 2006-10-01
<zwnj> i want to get the list of edgy packages (non-gnome and non-kde) for translation (better to be sorted in order of importance).  is there any available around?
<zwnj> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/edgy/+lang/XY do have all gnome, kde, xfce, etc packages
<lucasvo> does launchpad have rss feeds for newly reported bugs/specs?
<lucasvo> or any other api?
<braverock> I'm trying to debug an import failure of a project on Launchpad
<braverock> can someone help me?
<braverock> https://launchpad.net/products/xrms/trunk
<braverock> "Test Failed" doesn't give any feedback on what needs to change to fix it
<braverock> I'm trying to debug an import failure of a project on Launchpad
<braverock> https://launchpad.net/products/xrms/trunk
<braverock> "Test Failed" doesn't give any feedback on what needs to change to fix it
<SteveA> braverock: ddaa is the guy to talk to.  He isn't here right now.  You could also write to the launchpad-users mailing list about this
<braverock> I put in a support request on Launchpad too
<braverock> should I assign it to dda's launchpad user?
<braverock> ddaa?
<braverock> https://launchpad.net/products/bzr-register/+ticket/1936
<braverock> and SteveA, thanks for the info.
<SteveA> braverock: I assigned ddaa to it.
<SteveA> I expect he'll look at it tommorrow.
<braverock> thank you
<jordi> danilo_: oi?
<danilo[out] > jordi: wrong one :P
<danilo_> danilos: no, I am the right one!
<danilos> ok, schizophrenia tends to get nasty, let me turn xchat off on the other machine to keep that bastard quite ;)
<danilos> s/quite/quiet/
<jordi> oh my
<jordi> danilos: should we have a look at this stuff now?
<jordi> before the week expires :)
<danilos> jordi: sure
<jordi> danilos: ok, you know where it is?
<danilos> jordi: not really
<danilos> jordi: please point me to it
<behdad> hey
<behdad> anyone to merge my accounts?
#launchpad 2007-09-24
<elmo> sorry,wasdavplease try again now
<elmo> meh
<elmo> DaveMorris: please try again now
<DaveMorris> worked then thanks
<poolie> i'm getting "sorry, there was a problem connecting to the launchpad severs" on staging...
<poolie> and again
<poolie> i really hope this bulk expiration will be undone...
<ubotu> New bug: #144329 in launchpad "launchpad says to mail feedback@ to change official bug tracker, but I can do it myself..." [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/144329
<jamesh> yep
<jamesh> it is the kind of thing that should not have been done on a weekend
<poolie> particularly because we have sometimes been using needsinfo for 'needs discussion/decision', not 'give the user an ultimatum'
<poolie> what kind of message does it send when someone has spent probably 30 minutes giving a good description and it just gets rejected
<poolie> </rant>
<LaserJock> it's fairly easy to re-status them
<jamesh> LaserJock: it is fairly easy to restatus one of them, yes
<poolie> manually?
<LaserJock> yes
<poolie> yeah, if i didn't want to do anything else today...
<LaserJock> well, I've used it as a chance to clean up all the old junk bugs I had laying around
<poolie> about 70 were closed
<poolie> for us
<LaserJock> I had 138 total
<poolie> very likely some of them should have been closed, but 
<LaserJock> but most of those were from Launchpad itself
<poolie> closing valid bugs is worse than leaving dead bugs open, much worse
<jamesh> a reminder without a status change wouldn't have been too bad
<poolie> that would be quite nice
<ajmitch> a lot of the problem was projects using statuses to mean different things
<poolie> although maybe with some kind of ramp up for bugs already in that state, rather than sending them all in one flood
<ScottK> LaserJock: I have yet to look at a closure that was correct that couldn't have also been done automatically based on the status of a bug that is was duped to.
<ScottK> poolie: I agree.
<jamesh> ScottK: the fact that duplicates were hit was a bug
<poolie> jamesh, do you know if this will be reverted?
<ScottK> ajmitch: I would say that's not the problem.  That's another reason why this change is a bad idea.
<ScottK> jamesh: OK.  Well that moves it up to totally useless in my experience.
<ScottK> Gah.
* ScottK will be back later.
<jamesh> poolie: according to Curtis's mail to launchpad-users, they are planning on reverting the changes to a bunch of the bugs
<poolie> k
<jamesh> poolie: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/launchpad-users/2007-September/002282.html
<poolie> thanks
<poolie> actually i think that's not enough, but i'll reply on the list
<ubotu> New bug: #144332 in launchpad-bazaar "there are two launchpad code faqs" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/144332
<ScottK> jamesh: That looks like a small step in the right direction, but doesn't commit to revert the entire mess.
* Fujitsu just loves the one-size-fits-all approach.
* pkern just loved the one-ring-to-rule-them-all approach. <3
<pkern> It's a pity that one can't see where packages uploaded to ppa disappear.
<LaserJock> I personally think the Janitor idea is not a bad one
<LaserJock> I think if they clean up the rules it should be pretty ok
<LaserJock> but I do think they need to give been documentation on how to use the statuses properly
<jamesh> I agree that this wasn't handled as well as it should have been.
<jamesh> people get very attached to their bug reports (for good reason)
<ScottK> jamesh: I seriously resent having to sort through over 100 bugmails looking for ones that shouldn't be closed.  As a volunteer Ubuntu developer, it was a serious imposition on my time for working on Ubuntu.
<ScottK> BTW, none of which were one's I wrote.
<LaserJock> ScottK: please, try to give them some time to rework it
<LaserJock> obviously it didn't quite go as planned
<ScottK> LaserJock: That's what's supposed to happen BEFORE release.
<kiko> ScottK, well, things don't always go exactly as planned.
<ScottK> Fundamentally the concept is flawed IMO anyway.
<LaserJock> ScottK: right, but that is not your decision
<LaserJock> it's not mine either
<kiko> I think that's hard to establish without experience; I think most people are having knee-jerk reactions
<ScottK> LaserJock: That's true.
<LaserJock> we can help the LP guys get it the best we can
<kiko> if it turns out to be a bad idea, we of course will give up on it.
<kiko> despite common belief, I do care deeply if people are unhappy with something in Launchpad
<kiko> but there are steps to getting a feature right and sometimes the first one is a bit awkward
<ScottK> Well I'm about to give up on being an Ubuntu developer (except for a few packages key to my business needs) and the (from my perspective) steady deterioration in LP is one of the three main reasons.
<kiko> I resent your broad statement, ScottK, but it's sunday and I'm going to bed.
<ScottK> Others will have different opinions (which is why I said from my perspective).  But that's mine.
<LaserJock> ScottK: I honestly don't want to see you go and appreciate your dedicated work on Universe, but if you feel like you time is better spent elsewhere then maybe that's the right thing to do
<ScottK> LaserJock: It's not that I feel it would be better spent elsewhere, it's that doing this work is getting more frustrating, so the reward is less.
<ScottK> I've gotten to the point of wondering why I'm doing something for "fun" that is so stressing.
<LaserJock> sure
<ScottK> I made some specific committments for Gutsy and so I won't go anywhere before the release.  Maybe I'll change my mind before then.
<ubotu> New bug: #144353 in launchpad-bazaar "Tests for recordActivity in branch puller" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/144353
* Starting logfile irclogs/launchpad.log
<ubotu> New bug: #144358 in launchpad "No notification of team ownership change" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/144358
<carlos> morning
<dholbach> heya - can somebody take a look at  http://daniel.holba.ch/temp/bzr.crash ?
<dholbach> is there something wrong with LP?
<mwh> dholbach: well
<mwh> usually you would pull from http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-doc/gnome-user-docs/ubuntu-gutsy
<dholbach> mwh: true - thanks :)
<mwh> though i think you can pull from http://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-doc/gnome-user-docs/ubuntu-gutsy too
<mwh> (it redirects to the former)
<mwh> if you can, and can't pull from edge, that sounds like a bug
<mwh> (probably in some apache config somewhere)
<mrevell> Morning all
<DaveMorris> elmo You fixed the uploading problem yesterday with ppa, however now I'm not getting any accepted/rejected mails nor is it appearing in my upload section.  I uploaded last night and again a couple of hours ago.  Is this related to the upgrade that took place?
<DaveMorris> sorry if I missed a reply, gaim seg faulted on me
<gnomefreak> im guessing the LP janitor is fixed?
<pkern> Same problem here as DaveMorris, I uploaded multiple times to ppa around midnight UTC, and there were no mails at all, nor entries on LP about the package.
* DaveMorris checks to see if a bug has been filed about it yet
<DaveMorris> bug #144392, I'm not sure what package it should be reported against, however I tagged it the same as the other bug I found with the uploader which was Bug #139420
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 144392 in ubuntu "PPA uploads don't appear in LP nor have accepted/reject emails sent" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/144392
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 139420 in soyuz "PPA upload versions are not being verified" [High,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/139420 - Assigned to Celso Providelo (cprov)
<elmo> DaveMorris: it should be fixed now, the next cron.daily should start processing PPA again
<elmo> DaveMorris: but for future reference, please file such PPA bugs against the 'soyuz' project, rather than 'ubuntu'
<DaveMorris> thanks elmo, I always struggle to find projects/packages to file bugs against
<pkern> cron.`daily'... o_O
<pkern> elmo: Are the uploaded packages lost, i.e. do we need to re-upload?
<elmo> pkern: it's not really daily, the naming is just hysterical
<elmo> pkern: no packages should be lost, the cron job to process them just wasn't able to run, it'll pick them up now
<pkern> `at least' once a day? ;)
<pkern> Ok, thanks.
<elmo> no, 'daily' is either every hour or every half hour, I forget which for PPA
<elmo> (it's called cron.daily because that's what the script was called in dak)
<ubotu> New bug: #144392 in soyuz "cron.daily dies after poppy restart because of permission problems with queue dot-lock file" [Critical,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/144392
<pkern> Ah ok, thanks. Even there it's run (at least?) twice daily now, so I get the point.
<pwnguin> did i anger the ppa gods?
<pwnguin> none of my uploads are hitting =/
<DaveMorris> are they uploading?
<pwnguin> yes
<DaveMorris> then it's caused by bug #144392
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 144392 in soyuz "cron.daily dies after poppy restart because of permission problems with queue dot-lock file" [Critical,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/144392
<pwnguin> heh
<pwnguin> ok
<pwnguin> i noticed it earlier than this, but figured it'd take a few hours and hit or something =/
<pwnguin> i hate reporting bugs that wind up being user error =(
<DaveMorris> yeah I noticed last night, but confirmed with someone else earlier that I wasn't the only person affected
<pwnguin> well
<pwnguin> not much i can do then
<pkern> Are person (autocreated due to package upload) -> team conversions possible?
<jamesh> pkern: not through the web UI
<jamesh> pkern: file a ticket at https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad
<pkern> Ok, did so.
<pkern> (I asked about a week ago.)
<sabdfl> elmo: can we rename cron.daily, please?
<sabdfl> cron.processuploads or somesuch?
<pwnguin> i noticed ppas remove old versions finally -- am I missing the way to unpublish something?
<pwnguin> i dont think anyone's interested in debhelper, but they might care about thinkfinger
<pwnguin> er
<pwnguin> hello-debhelper
<gnomefreak> pwnguin: ppa removes it if its superseeded but there still isnt a way for the person to do it
<gnomefreak> afaik
<pwnguin> ok
<pwnguin> heh, maybe i should try getting it into ubuntu proper
<gnomefreak> once im done with these uploads ill look but i dont think it was added yet
<gnomefreak> it doesnt look like any of mozillateam packages were removed
<gnomefreak> i need to get my own running now that i got the teams running
<ubotu> New bug: #144399 in rosetta "Translations copy uses temp tables across transactions" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/144399
<elmo> sabdfl: err, I can file a bug about it, sure
<sabdfl> elmo: would you object to calling it something else, is really what i meant
<ubotu> New bug: #144400 in soyuz "pleas rename cron.daily to something less confusing" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/144400
<elmo> sabdfl: no, I don't object at all.  I suspect it'll take a year or two for the distro folks to stop referring to it as cron.daily though, old habits etc.
<pwnguin> if it's a daily, that makes sense. but somehow i gather processuploads runs more often than that
<Fujitsu> It has always been cron.daily :( It can't change now!
<Daviey> Doesn't cron.daily default to running ~6:00am?
<elmo> Daviey: this is launchpad's cron.daily, it doesn't run daily, it's a misnamed script
<Daviey> ah.. /me hides again
<gnomefreak> anyone else notice tags are no longer shown?
<gnomefreak> on Lp bugs
<gnomefreak> example bug without tags showing bug 130629
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 130629 in firefox ""dropdown option selected with mouse is not the actual selection made". Using arrow keys works fine." [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/130629 - Assigned to Mozilla Bugs (mozilla-bugs)
<sabdfl> gnomefreak: i see the tags there, at least on bugs.edge.lp.net
<gnomefreak> sabdfl: i dont see them using edge, were they moved from bottom of orig. post?
<gnomefreak> oh damn im blind
<gnomefreak> sorry they were moved
<ubotu> New bug: #144428 in rosetta "language pack export scripts needs to connect as a specific database user" [High,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/144428
<Hobbsee> what was in the weekend downtime?  do we have a list of changes?
* Hobbsee hopes that some of the glaring bugs for 1.1.9 have been fixed.
<Hobbsee> (in particular, the one about security bugs for packages only being shown to the security team, and the original reporter - not the team contacts AND/OR ~ubuntu-dev.
<elmo> Hobbsee: the downtime over the weekend wasn't about making changes to launchpad itself
<Hobbsee> elmo: damn.
<sabdfl> howdy Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> hi sabdfl, how's it going?
<sabdfl> zuuupa, thanks :-)
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Um, that's the point of security bugs.
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: i'm sure we used to be able to see them?
<Fujitsu> No...
<Fujitsu> Not until pitti or keescook subscribed us, or unprivatised them.
* Hobbsee sigh.
<Hobbsee> how useful.
<elmo> Hobbsee: there has to be a way to have private bugs, for embargoed issues
<Hobbsee> elmo: even private, non-security are visible to MOTU and core devs...
<Fujitsu> That being the entire point of securityness.
<Hobbsee> elmo: oh, you mean private-private, as in, canonical partner private?
<Fujitsu> Or embargoed security flaws...
<elmo> Hobbsee: no, I mean private-private, as in Ubuntu security team private
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: We can only see private bugs if we're subscribed.
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: is the subscription via manual subscription, or by bug contact?
<Fujitsu> Manual.
* Hobbsee has memories of triaging multiple private, non-security bugs.
<Fujitsu> No implicit subscriptions in private bugs.
<Hobbsee> elmo: hm.
<Fujitsu> I don't think it's actually documented anywhere, but that's normal with LP.
<Hobbsee> no, documentation is for the weak.
<Hobbsee> 4 people.  wow.
<Fujitsu> ?
<Hobbsee> on the security team.
<Fujitsu> I'm surprised it's that many.
<Fujitsu> They do have embargoes to keep.
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: well, they're all employees, so...it wouldnt surprise me.
<ubotu> New bug: #144435 in launchpad "cannot import gpg v2/v3 RSA key" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/144435
<mwh> hmm
<mwh> usually that means there's a keyserver somewhere that needs kicking
<ubotu> New bug: #144444 in malone "No obvious route to an Ubuntu source package from the project it corresponds with" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/144444
<elmo> mwh: no
<mwh> oh, ok
<elmo> mwh: v2/v3 RSA keys aren't supported by the gnupg package in ubuntu main for patent reasons
<mwh> fun
<hexmode> lp gurus: where do I look to link my hosted project to the lp bugtracker?
<hexmode> https://edge.launchpad.net/ihris-suite/ -- my project
<hexmode> (if this is in the docs somewhere, just give me a url)
<mwh> hexmode: i'm not sure what you're asking for
<mwh> hexmode: you don't just mean https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ihris-suite/ do you?
<hexmode> well, it says we don't use lp for our bug tracker when you try to submit a bug
<hexmode> or so I'm told
<hexmode> checking
<kiko> hexmode, visit your project's +edit page, and select the appropriate option. ask me if you can't find it.
<hexmode> k
<hexmode> kiko: I see a list of bugtrackers.  lp isn't one of them.  i have to have a seperate bugtracker that lp links to?
<kiko> hexmode, no, you select the option "< > In Launchpad". :)
<kiko> hexmode, what page are you on.
<kiko> ?
<hexmode> https://edge.launchpad.net/ihris-suite/+edit
<hexmode> I don't see "<> in launchpad"
<ddaa> kiko: I'd bet it's correct... the dropdown attracts the attention much more than the radio buttons just above
* hexmode double checks
<hexmode> ah
<ddaa> Me think this could use some javascript...
<hexmode> no, no button to click
<hexmode> lemme try non-beta version
<kiko> hexmode, (( Change ))
<kiko> what button are you looking for?
<ddaa> "( ) In Launchpad ( ) Somewhere else", then when the second radio is selected, it shows the dropdown and "[ ]  None of the above"
<hexmode> kiko: I have no clue what I'm looking for.  I don't see anything that says "in launchpad".  All I see is a dropdown for "Bug Tracker" with "(no value)" currently selected
<ddaa> kiko: ihris-suite is a project group
<kiko> ah.
* kiko grimaces
<ddaa> Right the forms are inconsistent for project and project group :(
<hexmode> gotcha
<kiko> hexmode, you need to do it for the individual products. that you need to do it is a bug, but at least you can work around it this way until we fix it.
<hexmode> excellent
<hexmode> I see now. tyvm
<kiko> sorry bout that!
<hexmode> np.  I'm just now figuring out lp
<kiko> me too 8)
<iwj> I (well, a script of mine) just sent mail to new@bugs.launchpad.net but it seems to have vanished.
<iwj> Sent nearly 15 mins ago now.
<iwj> Is there anyone here who might be able to help me with my lost email ?
<ddaa> you feeling okay Ian?
<ddaa> BTW, why do you not have a fancy ubuntu cloak?
<iwj> ddaa: Yes, I'm fine, thanks.
<ddaa> what kind of help do you require?
<iwj> 16:09 <iwj> I (well, a script of mine) just sent mail to new@bugs.launchpad.net but it seems to have vanished.
<iwj> 16:10 <iwj> Sent nearly 15 mins ago now.
<iwj> So err, 1h10 ago now.
<iwj> Sorry for sounding tetchy.  I just wondered if I was speaking to an empty room :-).
<ddaa> BjornT: any clue?
<iwj> It may well be my fault somehow.
<kiko> iwj, I don't /see/ anything in the error logs
<pochu> iwj: did you signed it?
<iwj> gpg: Good signature from "Ian Jackson (autopkgtest bug submitter - do not use) <iwj@ubuntu.com>"
<iwj> Sent at 14:55 Z today.
<pochu> (that happened to me once, and the issue was I hadn't signed it).
<iwj> Well, yes, I did have some problem earlier with mails getting corrupted making the signature check fail, but that was fixed last week.
<iwj> From: Ian Jackson <ian+ubuntu-autopkgtest@chiark.greenend.org.uk>
<iwj> To: new@bugs.launchpad.net
<iwj> Subject: autopkgtest gutsy ltsp-client-core amd64: erroneous package!
<iwj> My system doesn't make up its own message-id but I can probably get the sysadmins to produce MTA log entries if necessary.
<ubotu> New bug: #144485 in launchpad "FTI update trigger should not be invoked when modifying a non-indexed column" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/144485
<elmo> iwj: oh, this is our fault, hang on
<iwj> elmo: Oh, really ?
<elmo> iwj: yeah, sorry, I was doing some emergency maintenance of the buildd network on friday night and it broke outgoing mail
<kiko_> account add msn kiko_async@hotmail.com n8t1ve
<kiko_> gar.
<iwj> elmo: Blimey.  Strange, though, since I got a mail I sent to myself from cadmium.
<iwj> Err, I thought.
<iwj> But I can't find it now.
<iwj> Well, err, let me know when it's fixed and whether I should resend.
<elmo> iwj: I'm fixing it now, the mail was queued, should no need to resend
<iwj> elmo: OK, thanks.
<iwj> Yay, bug flood.
<jjesse> good afternoon, when i access my page through edge.launchpad.net/~jjesse in ie7 all i get no information below my name 
<jjesse> works fine under firefox under windows
<jjesse> same for all bugs.edge.launchpad.net/~jjesse, code.edge.launchpad.net/~jjesse ,etc
<kiko-fud> jjesse, please file a bug with a screenshot!
<jjesse> kiko-fud: will do
<jjesse> was just curious, i'm probablly the only ie user for launchpad
<jjesse> ok reported as bug #144514
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 144514 in launchpad "Problems with current beta version of launchpad" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/144514
<jjesse> changed the title of the bug, sorry bout that
<ubotu> New bug: #144514 in launchpad "Problems with current beta version of launchpad and IE7" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/144514
<filip89> hi i need your help with bug
<ddaa> what kind of help do you need?
<filip89> ddaa
<filip89> i have no sound on my laptop
<ddaa> You should probably ask on #ubuntu then
<filip89> wait
<filip89> i try solve my problem with ubuntu forum
<filip89> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-source-2.6.20/+bug/120302 here is bu
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 120302 in linux-source-2.6.20 "Feisty Sound not working at all on a toshiba a200 satellite has intel HDA" [Medium,Fix committed]   - Assigned to Ubuntu Audio Team (ubuntu-audio)
<filip89> bug
<ddaa> Right that's an ubuntu bug.
<filip89> and i have 2.6.22 kernel
<ddaa> you should ask on #ubuntu about it.
<filip89> also i have realtek id 268
<ddaa> #launchpad is about issues with launchpad itself
<filip89> i would ask if I should also report it as a bug
<ddaa> if you have a problem with your network card, you should probably use the answer tracker, or file a bug
<kiko> filip89, answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu
<ddaa> kiko: thanks
<filip89> i`m new here, so I don`t now, what to do
<filip89> thx
<kiko> filip89, no worries. ask a question -- they are normally answered quite swiftly.
<filip89> ok, so I should ask at answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu?
<kiko> filip89, yes, exactly.
<filip89> ok, i will try it
<ScottK> kiko: I'm sorry I upset you last night.  My perspective may well be a small enough minority that it can be safely ignored.  If you care to discuss it, I'm willing to do so.
<kiko> ScottK, thanks for saying that. I really was taken aback by your statement!
<ScottK> Looking at all the things that LP does, I probably only see 10% of it and I know everyone is working hard trying to do the right thing.
<kiko> ScottK, we really, honestly, truthfully want to produce the best tool possibly. sometimes we mess it up royally. but the intention is there
<ScottK> I accept the intention, but have personally been dissappointed with the result.
<kiko> ScottK, in this instance, or always?
<kiko> in this instance, I'd be disappointed too
<ScottK> Particularly in this instance, but since what I think was called the upgrade to the beta U/I.
<kiko> ScottK, ah, you don't like the 1.0 UI?
<ScottK> No.
<ScottK> I find it more complex and confusing than the earlier one.
<kiko> ScottK, you preferred the old one, or you hate both equally?
<ScottK> It is definitely prettier, but less useable.
<ScottK> I preferred the old one.
<kiko> interesting.
<kiko> the old one had horribly inconsistent navigation; but I guess you might not have noticed it
<ubotu> New bug: #144540 in launchpad "Change subjects of team membership change notifications sent to admins to be shorter while still containing all necessary details" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/144540
<kiko> is there anything specific and simple that could be done to make it less unusable?
<ScottK> Make it work on my Treo would be a simple request, but probably hard to implement.
<ScottK> The old one worked.
<ScottK> I can read bugs now, but not change status.
<ScottK> There are a couple of key things that would help, I think:
<ScottK> Let me pull up a specific example.
<ScottK> I'm currently looking at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-source-2.6.22/+bug/127772
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 127772 in linux-source-2.6.22 "CPU fan no longer runs after upgrade to Gutsy" [Medium,Triaged]   - Assigned to Ubuntu Kernel ACPI Team (ubuntu-kernel-acpi)
<ScottK> When I look at the line below "Affects  	Status  	Importance  	Assigned to"
<ScottK> To change Status or Importance, I click on the listed staus or importance.  
<kiko> man
<kiko> if you are complaining about the product link..
<ScottK> To change Affects or Assigned to, I click on Affects or Assigned to.
<ScottK> That's been that way for some time, but I still get it wrong routinely.
<kiko> it was changed in 1.1.9
* ScottK tries
<kiko> I hate that change; we should revert it
<ScottK> For U/I consistency, all those links should take you to the menu that lets you change them.
<kiko> yeah, they really should.
<ScottK> I filed a bug about that a while ago.  I'm looking for it.
<ScottK> kiko: It's Bug #137448
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 137448 in launchpad "New UI is confusing and counter inuitive for changing affected package" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/137448
<ubotu> New bug: #144542 in launchpad "no obvious way to get from a source package to its translations" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/144542
<ScottK> Another thing I'll just mention (I'm pretty certain you aren't going to change it) is I was asked (I think it was you, but it may have been someone else) to give the new fonts a few weeks.  I still don't particularly like them.
<ScottK> The new package page is still driving me batty.  I'd like the old one back as I'm almost always going to it and it's now one link deeper.
<ScottK> The old package information at the top with the changelog information below (if it were complete/correct) would be better than either the old or new pages.
<kiko> ScottK, what was the "old package information"?
<kiko> the history?
<ScottK> kiko: Yes.  What's now behind "Show publishing history"
<kiko> ScottK, you must realize that most other users rejoiced at this change?
<kiko> that's a hard one.
<ScottK> I've heard that and I can't imagine why.
<ScottK> kiko: Is there an example of a package where the upstream information is filled out?
<ScottK> Perhaps since I haven't hit one of those, I don't see the utility of it.
<kiko> ScottK, having the complete package information would be nice -- that page in part is trying to drive people to complete it.
<ScottK> kiko: In Universe we deal with thousands of packages.  This just isn't feasible.
<kiko> I guess part of it is nobody knows why packaging information is good. :)
<ScottK> This ties in, I guess, to my troubles with the new way of linking to upstream bugs.
<ScottK> If I have to register a package to do it, I'm just not going to do it.  It's too much trouble.
<kiko> ScottK, that isn't "the new way" -- it has always been required.
<ScottK> OK.
<kiko> ScottK, we are working on making the registration one-shot, pulling information externally
<kiko> and it'll also be part of the same add-a-watch workflow
<kiko> so it should be a lot easier
<kiko> I guess you're not one to be excited by the prospect of a good tool. :)
<ScottK> Maybe I've just been lucky before, but I could have sworn I could just put a link to the bug in before.
<ScottK> kiko: I like good tools.  I do not like it if the tool demands to much of me for little return.
<ScottK> That's why I asked for a package that has the upstream information so I could see what it's supposed to look like/be useful for.
<kiko> ScottK, one sec.
<kiko> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/firefox
* ScottK looks.
<kiko> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-terminal\
<kiko> etc
<ScottK> OK.
<kiko> there are a few that have complete information
<kiko> in fact, a lot more than there used to be.
<kiko> with packaging information we know:
<kiko> - what product the ubuntu task is downstream to
<kiko> - what bugtracker the product uses
<ScottK> What is the value of text saying "Mozilla Firefox Series: 2.0"?  I'm not getting it.
<kiko> we've got work in this cycle to allow tracking upstreams which don't use real bugtrackers -- email addresses and mailing lists
<kiko> bbias
<LaserJock> danilos: around?
<LaserJock> anybody familiar with translations/Rosetta around?
<poolie> hi
<poolie> is staging permanently offline? it's been saying 'please try again' for >24h
#launchpad 2007-09-25
<ubotu> New bug: #144610 in launchpad "don't say "please try again" if the site is permanently down" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/144610
<kiko> poolie, there's a problem with staging updates we're trying to work on.
<kiko> err, trying to fix.
<poolie> kiko, cool
<poolie> kiko, can we talk about this bug janitor thing?
<kiko> poolie, not tonight, but I'm going to do a post on news.launchpad.net first thing tomorrow
<kiko> it describes bug statuses in some detail
<poolie> are you going to reverse the changes to bazaar bugs?
<kiko> poolie, as curtis has written to launchpad-users, yes
<poolie> i don't see him saying that
<poolie> he has a post to launchpad internal about doing it
<poolie> but nothing public
<poolie> or at least he said it in a very obscure way
<kiko> https://answers.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/13885
<kiko> sorry, I'm really busy right now (working on exactly that)
<poolie> ok
<poolie> thanks
<poolie> i forwarded that
<Balaams_Miracle> It is quite possible i am missing or misinterpreting something, but in translations.launchpad.net (TLP), i see a new column called "need review". When i click a package that TLP claims has entries that need review, there is nothing to review. Is this a bug? Or is it flawed logic on my part?
<Balaams_Miracle> Oh, it might be useful to know that i am a member of the Dutch translation team, and that i am logged in.
<ubotu> New bug: #144620 in soyuz "Some displayed sourcepackagerelease changes files don't have attribution" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/144620
<Fujitsu> Balaams_Miracle: I've seen a few similar cases, but I'm not sure of a bug number.
<Balaams_Miracle> Well, if you say it is a bug, i will assume that i didn't misinterpret the purpose of that column :-)
<Fujitsu> I had a look a few days ago, and as far as I can tell it is a bug.
<Fujitsu> But I only look at the translations stuff every few months, so I'm not sure.
<Balaams_Miracle> If you (or anyone else) want to take a look at it now, here's the Dutch translation page: https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/gutsy/+lang/nl
<poolie> it would be nice if launchpad turned email attachments into bug attachments
<Fujitsu> poolie: Bug #30225
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 30225 in malone "Attach files via email" [High,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/30225 - Assigned to Bjrn Tillenius (bjornt)
<poolie> thansk
<poolie> hello jml
<jml> poolie: hi
<ubotu> New bug: #144636 in launchpad "cancel button in bug subscribe confirmation page is a freak" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/144636
<ubotu> New bug: #144650 in rosetta "TranslationImportQueueEntry.dateimported should be renamed to date_uploaded" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/144650
<mpt> Gooooooooooooooooooooood afternoon Launchpadders!
<Fujitsu> Hi mpt.
<mpt> Boy, I just go away for a week and a half, and look what happens ;-)
* Fujitsu observes the crumbled Launchpad world.
<ubotu> New bug: #144656 in rosetta "Suggestion code causing PG log spam" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/144656
<ubotu> New bug: #144664 in launchpad "Help tab provides no help on Feedback page" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/144664
<lifeless> thumper: how do you feel about running the reviewer meeting again?
<spiv> lifeless: thumper is on leave
<lifeless> oh
<lifeless> I'm seeking a victim
<lifeless> thank you for volunteering?
<spiv> Heh, sure.
<spiv> I haven't done one for a while.
<lifeless> danke
<spiv> BjornT, jamesh, jml_: review team meeting in 14 minutes.
<jml_> thanks.
<spiv> MEETING TIME
<spiv> .au review team meeting agenda:
<spiv>  * Roll call
<spiv>  * Next meeting
<spiv>  * Queue status
<spiv>  * Watch out for global state changes
<spiv>  * Mentoring update
<spiv> = Roll call =
<spiv> Who's here?
<jtv> me
<spiv> I know I am ;)
<spiv> jtv: oh hi, I forgot to ping you earlier.  Thanks for remembering :)
<lifeless> hi
<jamesh> hi
<lifeless> I is mostly here
<jtv> spiv: should I remind you to ping me next time?
<spiv> jtv: a list of expected attendees for on the ReviewerMeetingAgenda might be a good idea...
<jml_> me
<lifeless> myself
<lifeless> where is Irene
<spiv> I guess BjornT isn't up yet?
<spiv> And thumper is on leave.
<lifeless> isn't he going to be at the Malone sprint ?
<spiv> = Next meeting =
<spiv> lifeless: ah, could be.  No apologies are listed though...
<spiv> Same time next week?
<jml> yes.
<spiv> Ok.
<spiv> = Queue status =
<spiv> Not so good.  There's a lot of unallocated reviews, including overdue reviews.
<jml> yeah
<jml> is that because of some deliberate week 4 thing?
<spiv> I count 10 unallocated reviews, 3 of which are already late.
<jml> or is it just an oversight?
<spiv> lifeless, jamesh: you're listed as allocators.  Any idea what's happened?
<lifeless> I suck, but bzr sucks less
<mpt> bzr: ERROR: unknown command "sucks"
<spiv> mpt: must be plugin ;)
<spiv> jamesh, lifeless: will one of you do allocations after the meeting?
* lifeless runs screaming
<spiv> lifeless: :)
<spiv> jamesh: looks like you're "it"
<jamesh> okay
<spiv> jamesh: thanks
<spiv> = Watch out for global state changes =
<spiv> I'm not sure who added this item, but I assume it's related to that troublesome socket.setdefaulttimeout in a test.
<spiv> There's a new CodeReviewChecklist page too.
<jml> I like that
<spiv> Which mentions this issue.
<jamesh> I wonder if pylint or pyflakes can speak doctest?
<jamesh> it seems like the kind of thing those tools are designed to look for, but I wouldn't be surprised if they don't look at our doctests
<spiv> jamesh: they don't understand doctest, sadly.
<spiv> In theory it's probably not too hard to improve them.
<spiv> That might be a worthwhile project.
<spiv> Anyway, consider yourselves reminded to watch out for careless changes to global state when reviewing.
<spiv> = Mentoring update =
<spiv> Any news from mentors or mentees?
<spiv> (is "mentees" even a word?)
<spiv> (apparently it is)
<jml> (how embarrassing for English)
<jml> none from me.
<spiv> I don't think there was actually much reviewing done last week, because of the phase of the release cycle we were in.
<jml> also because of allocation.
<spiv> Ouch.
<lifeless> well
<lifeless> there are three allocators
<lifeless> we must all suck equally
<spiv> lifeless: sure, there's only two of you here to pick on though :)
<lifeless> gnar gnar gnar
<jml> I wasn't meaning to be narky -- sorry.
<spiv> Actually, someone should ping salgado about the lack of allocations too.
<spiv> I volunteer myself to do that.
<spiv> = Other business/ =
<spiv> ?
<spiv> Anything else we should talk about?
<spiv> 5
<spiv> 4
<lifeless> thanks spiv
<spiv> 3
<spiv> 2
<lifeless> don't forget to minute on the web and mail
<spiv> 1
<spiv> 0.5
<spiv> 0.25...
<spiv> 0
<jml> spiv: thanks.
<spiv> Thanks everyone.
<spiv> (meeting ends!)
<pwnguin> what meeting was that?
<spiv> pwnguin: launchpad code review team meeting.
<pwnguin> ah
<spiv> pwnguin: well, for the people on timezones close to .au
<carlos> morning
<ubotu> New bug: #144675 in blueprint "Can't register dependencies while registering a blueprint" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/144675
<ubotu> New bug: #144681 in blueprint "After registering a blueprint, can't begin registering another one in one click" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/144681
<poolie> does the general public always have access to edge?
<poolie> i thought sometimes it was in a closed beta?
<jamesh> poolie: edge has always been open to the public
<jamesh> poolie: beta.launchpad.net is what we have used for closed betas
<poolie> ok,
<poolie> i had some idea that they were the same, or that edge went away during closed betas?
<jamesh> don't know
<mpt> For a few days before rollouts, beta testers are redirected to edge
<Fujitsu> mpt: It's now permanent.
<mpt> Fujitsu, ah, so it is, (I hope) that's why I keep getting timeouts
<TomaszD> carlos, could you check the template for f-spot? I have a serious hunch that it's not up-to-date
<carlos> sure
<carlos> TomaszD: there is nothing pending to be imported for it. and latest update was ....
<carlos> TomaszD: ok, for some reason the .pot file is not being updated
<carlos> latest update was 2007-03-04
<TomaszD> carlos, I knew something was wrong!
<TomaszD> :] 
<carlos> so I guess there is something wrong when the build tries to generate the .pot file
<carlos> either it fails or it's not even tried
<TomaszD> because many many strings are missing and I'm sure that it's fully translated into Polish, as I've translated it
<TomaszD> carlos, can you do something about it or is this a matter requiring the involvement of f-spot maintainer, etc?
<carlos> no, I cannot do anything, you need to f-spot maintainer
<carlos> s/to/the/
<TomaszD> carlos, alright, thanks
<carlos> TomaszD: you can point him to http://launchpadlibrarian.net/9301218/buildlog_ubuntu-gutsy-i386.f-spot_0.4.0-0ubuntu2_FULLYBUILT.txt.gz and look for xgettext
<carlos> there is an error that prevents the build to generate the .pot file
<TomaszD> alright, that's what I needed
<TomaszD> I'm looking for the name of the maintainer but I can't find it anywhere
<TomaszD> I'll just report a bug
<carlos> TomaszD: thanks
<TomaszD> ha, found him, Andrew Mitchell apparently
<TomaszD> ajmitch, are you the f-spot maintainer?
<TomaszD> ajmitch, because if you are, look here please https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/f-spot/+bug/144707
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 144707 in f-spot "[gutsy]  f-spot build doesn't generate the .pot file" [Undecided,Confirmed]  
<iwj> Would there be any chance of having bug 144719 (which I have just discovered) fixed very soon ?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 144719 in soyuz "Packages files not included in md5sums.gz" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/144719
<iwj> It has broken my local mirror which makes many things I do routinely very impractical.
<oojah> Hmm, seven years bad luck.
<ubotu> New bug: #144719 in soyuz "Packages files not included in md5sums.gz" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/144719
<TomaszD> carlos, the bug got fixed :]  I'm no going to stop bothering you though :]  is the gtk+ core package using rosetta? I can't find it :( I made some changes upstream quite a long time ago and I can't find the changes in Ubuntu
<TomaszD> *not
<carlos> TomaszD: gtk+ 1 ?
<carlos> or 2?
<TomaszD> 2
<TomaszD> carlos, 2. There's like a hundred or more packages with gtk in the name
<TomaszD> I can't find gtk+ 2 core
<TomaszD> I'm basically looking for this http://l10n.gnome.org/module/gtk+
<carlos> TomaszD: https://translations.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/gutsy/+source/gtk+2.0/
<TomaszD> ah
<TomaszD> seems like everything is fine, last update 17th September, but the last langpack update had taken place on the 14th, so I have to wait a bit
<TomaszD> carlos, does it really have to take seven days for a po import to rosetta? I'm waiting for one import since 18th. Maybe an infrastructure upgrade should be in order :]  btw the langpack upgrade is long overdue, last one was on 14th September, so 9 days ago
<TomaszD> It was supposed happen twice a week
<carlos> we are working on improve the import performance, it shouldn't be so slow
<carlos> about the lang pack update
<carlos> we are in a migration process and had a small problem that broke the export
<carlos> planned for yesterda/today
<TomaszD> I see
<carlos> after beta release we should be back to normality
<TomaszD> great! :] 
<ubotu> New bug: #144744 in launchpad-bazaar "get a better design for loggerhead" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/144744
<mgallagh> I'm having issue with uploading to a PPA
<mgallagh> I follow the steps in the quick start guide exactly, but nothing ever shows up in launchpad
<pkern> Could an LP admin please deal with QA 13637?
<pkern> (QA as in Q&A)
<pkern> (i.e. conversion of utnubu-maintainers to a team.)
<Kamping_Kaiser> does LP have a way to look for debdiffs i've attached to bugs?
<kiko> pkern, it depends on a bug being fixed, unfortunately
<kiko> Kamping_Kaiser, not currently. so you attach debdiffs to bugs?
<kiko> what are they debdiffs of?
<pkern> kiko: Ok.
<Kamping_Kaiser> kiko, i have done... fix for the bug, whatever it was. dont remember the bug, only that i attached to it
<Kamping_Kaiser> hm... i think i do remember actually *checks*
<Kamping_Kaiser> found it... couldnt remember it until i talked about it *heh*
<Kamping_Kaiser> would still be nice to look on attachments *shrug*
<kiko> Kamping_Kaiser, do you mean search through attachments?
<kiko> Kamping_Kaiser, you can search for patches. when you uploaded your debdiff you could have marked it was a patch
<Kamping_Kaiser> kiko, search for bugs which you've attached something to
<kiko> and then search for it in the advanced search.
<Kamping_Kaiser> ok, cheers
<cosmodad> hi all -- isn't it possible to use Launchpad in order to file a bug to upstream?
<cosmodad> I cannot figure a way to do it but thought it was feasible
<lamont> given an extant bug @bugs.debian.org, is there any way to trivially create a dup in LP, or do I have to create a fresh bug and use also-affects?
<kiko> lamont, the former. BjornT's working on a patch for 1.1.10 that lets you do exactly that
<Fujitsu> kiko: This `patch' being the continuous BTS bug importing?
<kiko> Fujitsu, well, push-button debbug syncing
<Fujitsu> The continuous stuff has been deferred again?
<kiko> Fujitsu, no, it's just that it depends on that happening first.
<iwj> I'm afraid I have another missing mail.  Perhaps someone would be able to find out what LP did with it ?
<iwj> Sep 25 14:35:47 fiordland postfix/local[5858] : 48B8BB682F3: to=<launchpad@mail.canonical.com>, orig_to=<new@bugs.launchpad.net>, relay=local, delay=0, status=sent (delivered to maildir)
<iwj> apparently.
<iwj> BjornT: ^  (last time, someone suggested you might know ...)
<BjornT> iwj: i can't find anything in the error logs. make sure that the From address is registered in LP, we silently drop the e-mail if the address isn't registered.
<iwj> BjornT: This is the same setup that has been sending lots of email.
<iwj> (which works, obviously)
<iwj> And yes the From: address and the signing key are registered.
<iwj> Surely it must be possible to find out what has happened to a particular mail ?
<BjornT> iwj: it is, but it's not always easy, and i don't have direct access to find out. i can look into it, though, what's the message id?
<iwj> elmo: ^ can you get the Message-ID: header from your logs ?
<elmo>  id=20070925130514.784755075@cadmium.buildd
<iwj> My system doesn't generate its own Message-ID - it lets the MTA do that - so I don't have it my my records.
<iwj> elmo: Thanks.
<iwj> BjornT: ^
<iwj> BjornT: Feel free to redirect me to someone else.
<iwj> It may well be my fault somehow.  These mails are a bit fiddly to get right it seems.
<iwj> I wasn't expecting things to be this fragile so it doesn't keep all of the records that would be useful for email debugging.
<iwj> Tue Sep 25 14:46:51 BST 2007: considering ( target=source) starting selected "subversion" adt-run 12 uploading email "new@bugs.launchpad.net" signing email-recorded done 0.
<iwj> seems to have gone missing too.
<iwj> And I have an actual copy of that mail, which looks good and whose signature verifies.
<iwj> cd subversion/svnversion && /bin/bash /root/adt-downtmp/dsc0-build/subversion-1.4.4dfsg1/BUILD/libtool --tag=CC --silent --mode=link gcc  -version-info 1 -g -O2  -pipe -Wall -g -O2 -pthread  -O2  -o svnversion  main.o ../../subversion/libsvn_subr/libsvn_subr-1.la ../../subversion/libsvn_wc/libsvn_wc-1.lFrom: Ian Jackson <ian+ubuntu-autopkgtest@chiark.greenend.org.uk>
<iwj> To: new@bugs.launchpad.net
<iwj> What ?
<iwj> Excuse me, mispaste.
<iwj> From: Ian Jackson <ian+ubuntu-autopkgtest@chiark.greenend.org.uk>
<iwj> To: new@bugs.launchpad.net
<ubotu> New bug: #144794 in launchpad "Exception in PPA email response" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/144794
<hexmode> is lauchpad mirroring behind?
<hexmode> I added a branch last night and it still hasn't updated
<hexmode> https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~hexmode/+junk/power-saver
<iwj> BjornT: Were you able to find it ?
<BjornT> iwj: no, i haven't found someone with access yet. it'll probably have to wait until tomorrow.
<iwj> Errr.
<iwj> Who should I be talking to ?
<kiko> ddaa, ping
<kiko> ddaa, see hexmode's question above, I'm wondering if it has to do with the rollout.
<ddaa> pong
<ddaa> nothing to do with the rollout
<ddaa> I'll check to see if the script is hung again
<BjornT> iwj: i got hold of kiko now. we don't have any record of that mail in the db, which means that LP never got it.
<BjornT> iwj: the first thing that happens when LP gets an e-mail is that we log that we got it. even if something goes wrong when processing the mail, we still have a record of getting it. i don't know what could have happened with that e-mail.
<kiko> BjornT, did we log we got that email?
<ddaa> right, the script appears hung again
<ddaa> siginting now
<iwj> elmo: ^
<BjornT> iwj, kiko: oh wait, we just upload the message to the librarian, we don't insert anything in the db. let me take another look...
<BjornT> kiko: could get a list of all LibraryFileAlias created around 14:35:47 (not sure whether BST or UTC), with a content type of message/rfc822, and which aren't referenced by a Message?
<kiko> BjornT, there is no datecreated on LFA.
* kiko tries to understand why
<iwj> Would it help if I supplied more details ?
<iwj> The most recent email I have a copy of the body text, although no Message-ID (see logfile entry ^ up there).  And for the other email I asked elmo to look at, we have the Message-ID but unfortunately not a copy of the body - just some timestamps.
<kiko> BjornT, can it be libraryfilecontent.datecreated?
<kiko> BjornT, if you give me some SQL I can run it -- I can't do too much guessing as I am already spread too thin right now.
<iwj> I'm surprised you don't have some easier way to answer this question ...  MTAs keep logs specificially for tracing lost messages.
<kiko> BjornT, have we looked at the MTA logs on lpnet itself?
<iwj> BTW, 14:35:47 is BST.
<iwj> kiko: That log entry came from elmo and is on the relevant machine I think.
<iwj> The one on fiordland, I mean.  It claims delivery to a maildir, which I assume is where LP itself picks it up.  If it were deliverying to another MTA I would hope it would use SMTP.
<ubotu> New bug: #144823 in launchpad "libraryfilealias lacks a datecreated column" [High,Triaged]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/144823
<kiko> BjornT?
<oly_mk2> hi could some one please point me in the direction of the unregister branch option, if its available 
<kiko> oly_mk2, on +edit there is a delete button.
<BjornT> kiko: sorry, was in another discussion. yes, LibraryFileContent.datecreated should do. i can give you a sql query, just a minute.
<oly_mk2> i can not see +edit 
<oly_mk2> https://code.launchpad.net/~oly/ looking there currently 
<oly_mk2> want to remove the 15 weeks old one, because its part of a team now rather than mine 
<kiko> oly_mk2, and did you try https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~oly/usm/development/+delete ?
<oly_mk2> oh i see you meant add +edit to the address 
<oly_mk2> okay will do :)
<oly_mk2> okay that worked a treat, thxs kiko 
<kiko> oly_mk2, most welcome.
<iwj> Is it likely to be this difficult every time a mail vanishes in LP ?
<oly_mk2> the +edit was useful to know as well, been wanting to rename the other branch 
<kiko> oly_mk2, so all that is accessible from the individual branch's page
<kiko> iwj, be patient
<kiko> BjornT, 1 minute is up :)
<iwj> kiko: Sure, sorry.  I don't mean I'm in a hurry.  It just seems like I'm putting you to an enormous amount of trouble.  Sorry !
<kiko> iwj, no, I want us to find out what's wrong, this is not a common occurrence
<iwj> kiko: OK.  It's happened to more than one mail from my same test robot this afternoon, so perhaps something changed recently ?
<iwj> It was working yesterday.
<kiko> normally rejected email goes to a list, which I read daily, and what isn't rejected is processed, and what fails blows up and becomes an OOPS or error in the mail processing script. normally. :)
<kiko> not that I can find easily
<BjornT> kiko: try running this (it might be really slow, though): https://pastebin.canonical.com/349/plain/
<kiko> BjornT, I thought you were going to use LFC.datecreated. okay.
<ubotu> New bug: #144740 in postgresql (universe) "Able to trigger backend segmentation faults via tsearch2 (dup-of: 141637)" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/144740
<BjornT> kiko: well, i'm interested to see if we are getting a lot of unhandled e-mail. if it's too much, let's limit it using datecreated.
<kiko> BjornT, so nothing else in the librarian is stored with message/rfc822?
<kiko> running
<BjornT> kiko: i don't think so. but i'll prepare a query limiting on datecreated as well.
<kiko> BjornT, well, wait until I get you a result. ;)
<BjornT> kiko: i just remembered that that query probably will include more e-mails than i'd hoped for :)
<kiko> right now it's giving me none!
<BjornT> kiko: that's odd. does it give you any rows if select only by mimetype?
<kiko> well, it's hung on the query. :)
<kiko> BjornT, yep, it does.
<BjornT> kiko: so, did the original query give you 0 rows, or did it just hung?
<kiko> it hung
<kiko> but message.raw is usually null
<kiko> BjornT, https://pastebin.canonical.com/350/
<dneary> heyho
<dneary> kiko: Hi there
<dneary> kiko: Ran a new pb in a semi last weekend - 1:36
<kiko> hey dneary -- hey, that's a pretty good time!
<dneary> Thanks :)
<dneary> Hoping to get under 1:30 this season
<dneary> I went through 10k in 44 minutes - so I started too fast
<oojah> And then finished too slow... :)
<kiko> BjornT: https://pastebin.canonical.com/351/
<dneary> kiko: I uploaded a .pot and a bunch of .po files for the wengophone today
<dneary> For a branch we'll be releasing next month
<dneary> Any idea when they might get imported?
<kiko> dneary, we can get them done by tomorrow I think. danilos: ^^^
<danilos> kiko, dneary: we make turns in processing the import queue on monday, wednesday and friday
<danilos> dneary: is it a problem to have that imported tomorrow?
<BjornT> kiko: ok, a bit too many. let's limit it on datecreated
<dneary> danilos: No problem - I just would like to announce that translations are open
<dneary> Even though we're not yet at a definitive string freeze for another 2 weeks
<dneary> There are about 100 changed strings which are changed in trivial ways (things like "Find out more about Wengo's services" changed to "Find out more about %PROVIDER%'s services"
<danilos> dneary: ok, I marked the template as approved, everything else should start flowing in in a few hours at most (when auto-approval script picks them up)
<dneary> great - thanks
<iwj> 5448  mlockall(MCL_CURRENT|MCL_FUTURE)  = 0
<iwj> ECHAN
<BjornT> kiko-fud: https://pastebin.canonical.com/352/
<kiko-fud> https://pastebin.canonical.com/354/
<ubotu> New bug: #144848 in rosetta "Speed up online translation copying pouring callbacks" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/144848
<BjornT> iwj: i've found the e-mail you sent now, but i don't know know yet what went wrong. i don't have time to look closer at it now, but i'll do it either later tonight or tomorrow
<iwj> BjornT: Thanks.
<iwj> BjornT: If you could give me a link to it or a copy of it or something, then I could check to see that it looks the same as my copy.
<iwj> Or sane, anyway (if it's the one that I don't have a copy of).
<BjornT> iwj: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/9502263/9Q6MzsiK3KPCFt1IJXtHiRL48nP.txt
<iwj> gpg: Good signature from "Ian Jackson (autopkgtest bug submitter - do not use) <iwj@ubuntu.com>"
<iwj> The rest of it looks good to me too.
<iwj> BjornT: Anyway, thanks, and let me know what you conclude.
<bersace_> hi
<bersace_> strange, my package took 7 minutes to buil don amd64
<bersace_> and it's still building for i386 for 11 minutes
<bersace_> https://edge.launchpad.net/~bersace/+archive/+build/398351
<bersace_> i guess it should take about the same time
<bersace_> last build for i386 took 7 minutes
<bersace_> :/
<bersace> 13 minutes !
<bersace> i'm wondering if my package isn't doing some nasty things on samarium
<bersace> damn, 16 minutes :/
<cprov> bersace: don't worry, slave-scanner is blocked by a queue-builder run.
<bersace> cprov: what does that mean ?
<bersace> ah
<bersace> done !
<bersace> ouf !
<bersace> :)
<cprov> bersace: that you job might be ready, but won't be collected because the machine was doing something else
<bersace> well, ok
<lbm> hmm, seems to be a problem when trying to merge accounts
<lbm> OOPS-633B1197
<ubotu> https://devpad.canonical.com/~jamesh/oops.cgi/633B1197
<andrea-bs> hello everyone
<sabdfl> hey all
<Hobbsee> hi sabdfl 
<sabdfl> Hobbsee! how are you?
<Hobbsee> sabdfl: tired!
<Hobbsee> ;)
* Hobbsee is victorious, though.
<Hobbsee> sabdfl: it seems that most people dont undersatnd the distinction between milestones and nominate for release, btw.
<ScottK> Hello sabdfl
<sabdfl> hey ScottK
<sabdfl> ScottK: https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/apache2
<sabdfl> i'll tidy up the layout too
* ScottK looks
<ScottK> sabdfl: That's definitely an improvement.  How about having links to the version specific pages too.
<ScottK> It's just text now.
<ScottK> Same as you have already in the version history for each release.
<ScottK> Saves the need to scroll down and hunt for the one you want.
<sabdfl> sure
<ScottK> Great.
<ScottK> sabdfl: Component is another item from the old page that would be very useful for me to see there (since component varies over time).
<sabdfl> too much information for that page, i think
<ScottK> sabdfl: OK.  Well I was looking at the publishing history page for stuff I am often missing and that's the main thing I still don't see.
<ScottK> This is definitely a great improvement though.
<sabdfl> you're welcome ;-)
<ScottK> sabdfl: Thank you.
<gnomefreak> under ubuntu version they are not even some are off to side.
<gnomefreak> ScottK: were you the one that asked me to take pics from book store yesterday?
<ScottK> gnomefreak: I think that's what he meant by he'd tidy up the layout.
<ScottK> No.
<gnomefreak> ah ok
<gnomefreak> maybe it was bdmurry than
<gnomefreak> ubuntu books galore at the book stores in area
<gnomefreak>  :)
<Laibsch> How can I *remove* a remote bugwatch if it was attached erroneously?
<kiko> Laibsch, visit the bug watch's page (use the little pencil) and press delete.
<Laibsch> kiko: Thanks for the hint
<Laibsch> I can change the bug number but I cannot delete it
<kiko> Laibsch, what's the URL?
<Laibsch> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/45747/+watch/35501
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 45747 in linux-source-2.6.15 "CPU scaling no longer supported on Via C3 Ezra" [Medium,Confirmed]  
<Laibsch> kiko: I was faster ;-)
<Laibsch> Is that the URL you meant?
<kiko> Laibsch, the button is missing because the watch is linked to an active task
<kiko> yes, perfectly!
<Laibsch> Maybe I lack the power?
<Laibsch> active task?
<kiko> linux-source-2.6.15 (Ubuntu)
<Laibsch> IOW, the kernel bug can only be deleted when 45747 has been closed?
<kiko> well
<lucius-antonius> i need some help with manually importing POT files into Rosetta. can someone here help me?
<sistpoty> are you still planning to undo the janitor bug closage by restoring the old bug status *and removing any janitor comments*?
<ScottK> sistpoty: I haven't seen anything saying they were going to undo them all, only the ones they didn't mean to get.
<sistpoty> ScottK: give me a second, I'll dig the mail
<ScottK> K
<sistpoty> (or read it properly *g*)
* sistpoty still looks
<sistpoty> ScottK: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/launchpad-users/2007-September/002309.html (first paragraph=
* ScottK loks
<ScottK> looks even
<ScottK> sistpoty: I hadn't seen that one.
* ScottK wishes they'd drop the entire idea.
<sistpoty> ScottK: it's not about the idea in general, but rather about how to revert, at least the first paragraph, that's why I'm asking here (and my mail from work account is still in moderation)
<flacoste> sistpoty: plan is to revert the status and remove the comments for all bugs that weren't modified afterwards
<sistpoty> flacoste: imo it would be much better to just add a new comment stating that the bug state was reverted. (but I guess I've written that in my mail already)
<flacoste> sistpoty: you replied to the launchpad-users thread?
<sistpoty> flacoste: if I were to see that some bad things in a web page just vanish I'd be very anxient against this page
<sistpoty> flacoste: yes
<sistpoty> flacoste: stefan.potyra@informatik.uni-erlangen.de (vs. sistpoty@ubuntu.com, my home addy with wich I'm subscribed)
<LaserJock> obviously I live in the wrong TZ, the Rosetta people always seem gone when I need them :-)
<sistpoty> hey LaserJock
<flacoste> sistpoty: i don't see your email in the thread...
<sistpoty> flacoste: strange... you checked the moderation q?
<LaserJock> hi sistpoty 
<flacoste> sistpoty: i don't have access to the moderation queue, it might be there
<LaserJock> I don't think I got an email about it from you
<sistpoty> flacoste: most probably, as stated above ;)
<LaserJock> I'm guessing it's in the queue
<flacoste> sistpoty: was Curtis Hovey CC on the email?
<flacoste> sistpoty: his the one working on that, so if you CC him, at least, he'll have received your comments
<sistpoty> flacoste: yes, but the contents were basically the same as I told here (I was at work, though I keep myself short *g*)
<LaserJock> hehe
<sistpoty> flacoste: I'm only curious, since the following mails from him didn't state if he received my mail
<flacoste> sistpoty: i'll poke him about that
<sistpoty> flacoste: thanks a lot!
<sistpoty> LaserJock: btw. may I query you?
<LaserJock> sure
<ajmitch> hello LaserJock 
<LaserJock> darn
<LaserJock> I hoped to get out before you showed up
<Adri2000> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/update-manager/+bug/67348 the last comment looks like spam...
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 67348 in update-manager "A unresolvable problem occurred while calculating the upgrade. (dup-of: 58424)" [Undecided,New]  
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 58424 in update-manager "Can't calculate the upgrade with unofficial mesa/compiz packages " [Low,Fix released]   - Assigned to Michael Vogt (mvo)
<sabdfl> Adri2000: i've mailed him to see how that happened
<sabdfl> odd
<sabdfl> we don't require GPG sigs on normal mail comments
<pwnguin> orly
<pwnguin> gmail doesn't support gpg natively, so that's handy. i wager you'd like that fixed however
<pwnguin> while speaking with vint cerf, he suggested that he'd rather see elliptic curve signatures than gpg's approach
<ScottK> ECC has patent issues though.
<pwnguin> no kidding
<pwnguin> fortunately, he's only an advisor and evangelist, not a designer / developer ^_^
#launchpad 2007-09-26
<blueyed> Hi. The status of the CVS import for https://launchpad.net/b2evolution/trunk is "Processing" since 2007-07-20 now.
<blueyed> Can somebody take a look at it, please?
<mpt> Goooooooooood afternoon Launchpadders!
<indraveni> hi all
<indraveni> is launchpad available for free download ?
<indraveni> I want to know whether there is a way to install launchpad in our premises and have all the database here , instead of registering our product in launchpad site
<ScottK> indraveni: It's not Free Software.
<stdin> yet (hopefully)
<ScottK> It either is or isn't.  Once it is, it is, until then, it's not.
<Odd_Bloke> ScottK: I don't think anyone was saying otherwise...
<Hobbsee> ScottK's just bitter
<stub> launchpad is designed to collaborate between projects, not used in isolation. If you don't want a central database there are probably better options available.
<ScottK> Odd_Bloke: OK.  I just think the promises are completely irrelevant.  I respect the intent.
<ScottK> Hobbsee: For LP, I'm not bitter.  I'm resentful.
<ubotu> New bug: #141028 in rosetta "Translations should have "same as original" option" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/141028
<indraveni> stub, what are the other options that are available ?
<ubotu> New bug: #145078 in launchpad "None of the footer links work" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/145078
* mpt hugs ScottK 
<ScottK> Hello mpt.
<ScottK> I do appreciate that my feedback is listened to and makes a difference.
<ScottK> The resentful part is the amount of time I end up having to put into it.
* ScottK is off to bed, so good night and thanks.
<carlos> morning
<Hobbsee> hi carlos 
<Hobbsee> carlos: you're the translations guy, right?
<carlos> Hobbsee: hi
<carlos> one of them, yes
<Hobbsee> carlos: we've got some problems with kubuntu docs with rosetta
<Hobbsee> any chance you could poke them as required?
<carlos> yeah, I saw the mails, but didn't have time to handle that, although I was planning to do it today...
* carlos misses the report that mdke usually gives me with each release...
<Hobbsee> there are still 7 templates they havent uploaded yet for translations, i'm told.
<Hobbsee> carlos: cool, OK.  obviously, we'd like them done, as they're kubuntu release notes...
<Hobbsee> so it's rather time critical
<carlos> yeah, don't worry, this week I'm trying to cleanup the queue
<Hobbsee> carlos: cool, thanks
<carlos> although having a list of renamed templates would be useful, do you know it?
<Hobbsee> carlos: i dont, sorry.  the guy has gone to bed now
<carlos> ok
<Hobbsee> carlos: apparently one is the kubuntu index.
<Hobbsee> but i dont have info apart from that
<carlos> there are 6 templates pending to be imported, three are already auto approved
<carlos> another one is there from previous versions so is not a big problem, and there are two others that seem to be renames...
<carlos> ok, I think is easy enough
<carlos> Hobbsee: thanks for remind me it
<Hobbsee> carlos: no problem, thanks for fixing :)
<carlos> np
<mrevell> mornin gall
<Hobbsee> mrevell!
<mrevell> hey Hobbsee :)
<dneary> Hi all
<mrevell> hi dneary
<dneary> Is there an official way to send announcements of translations opening to launchpad translators?
<dneary> Or is that considered spam of the worst kind?
<dneary> mrevell: Didn't you leave the LUGRadio crowd?
<mrevell> dneary: I certainly did
<mrevell> dneary: Didn't have time to do everything :)
<dneary> I guess only Jono does...
<mrevell> dneary: yeah :)
<dneary> What with his warping space-time
<mrevell> dneary: Your translations announcement: do you want to send a mail to everyone in a translations team?
<dneary> Yup
<ubotu> New bug: #145111 in launchpad "Obsolete CVS details much more prominent than real bzr trunk" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/145111
<ubotu> New bug: #145113 in launchpad "Nowhere to register where to obtain releases" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/145113
<mrevell> dneary: There isn't a way to do that directly, at the moment. Obviously you could go through each person's profile and lift the email address from those where it's not hidden.
<mrevell> dneary: Let me just double-check there isn't another way, though.
<carlos> dneary: no, we don't have yet a way to send notifications to the whole team
<darian> hi
<darian> i need a admin
<darian> i want to delete my project because lunchpad is not the right thing for our problem
<darian> please query me
<darian> the project is called "adviki"
<mrevell> dneary: Yes, sorry, to confirm, there isn't an easy way right now.
<mrevell> darian: Hi - please file a request at https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+addquestion and one of our admins will help you.
<darian>  https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+addquestion thx 
<mrevell> darian: Could I ask why you feel Launchpad isn't right for you? Perhaps there's some way I can help.
<darian> i have a wiki
<darian> and we search a tool for manage the admins and the todos for the wiki
<darian> but lunchpad is for "real" softwork with versions and so on
<darian> is not bad but absolutly false for our problems
<darian> ok?
<darian> ?
<dneary> OK - thanks Matthew
<dneary> (back, was away)
<dneary> I'm trying to change the "current development focus" to a series I just created in Launchpad - and I can't figure out where that gets done.
<dneary> Perhaps I don't have sufficient permissions?
<dneary> Do I need to be a driver to do that?
<iwj> BjornT: Did you manage to figure out what was happening to my mails ?
<BjornT> iwj: sorry, not yet, i'm a bit busy this week with a sprint, but it's on my todo
<sabdfl> dneary: which project?
<dneary> sabdfl: wengophone
<dneary> was away for lunch
<TomaszD> carlos, what is the hack that allows me to view more than 10 strings on one page in rosetta?
<TomaszD> I know it was something with modyfing the url 
<ubotu> New bug: #145190 in malone "Upstream source import: CVS & SVN text fields disabled" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/145190
<noideayet> Help!
<carlos> TomaszD: add batch=XXX to the list of arguments
<carlos> where XXX is the number of messages you want
<noideayet> I need to conosolidate 2 accounts, but I do not remember the email I used for one of them!
<carlos> TomaszD: say that, if you put a high number there, you will get many timeout errors
<noideayet> *merge 
<carlos> noideayet: do you remember the launchpad id of both accounts ?
<TomaszD> carlos, so for example I have https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/gutsy/+source/gnome-system-tools/+pots/gnome-system-tools/pl/+translate?start=90
<noideayet> carlos, id, no. One is ~niy and one is ~ffm
<TomaszD> how do I add it? just &batch=100 ?
<carlos> TomaszD: yes
<noideayet> carlos, I want ~ffm to be the primary.
<TomaszD> ok
<carlos> yeah, that's the id
<noideayet> And I do not remember the email i used with ~ffm
<carlos> noideayet: I guess that means that you are not able to login into that account, right?
<noideayet> carlos, yes.
<carlos> noideayet: you will need an admin then
<noideayet> Where can I find one, carlos ?
<ubotu> New bug: #145192 in launchpad-bazaar "cvs and subversion fields disabled in series/+source form" [High,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/145192
<carlos> stub: could you help noideayet ?
<carlos> noideayet: https://launchpad.net/~admins/+members
<carlos> noideayet: another option and more reliable is to file a ticket on https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad
<noideayet> carlos, thanks.
<carlos> np
<stub> noideayet: Its a @gmail.com email address.
<stub> Doesn't the password recovery get the relevant details to you?
<noideayet> stub, no , it only gives me the info for ~niy. I think I uses the same email for both.
<noideayet> I could auth with one of my keys...
<stub> Hmm... insists on email address. I wonder if that is deliberate or if it accepts Launchpad nick?
<carlos> noideayet: I don't think launchpad allows you that
<noideayet> but I have one of my keys on file.
<noideayet> I can sign a message with it to prove I Am the owner of the key.
<noideayet> I have both keys in my keychain.
<stub> I've sent a password forgotten reminder to the ~niy account
<noideayet> I know the password for ~niy
<stub> There is only a deactivated GPG key for ~niy
<stub> If you know the password for ~niy, you can log in and see your email address.
<stub> Log in as 'niy' rather than using an email address should work fine.
<noideayet> I need to log in as ffm. 
<stub> Ok. I've sent a password forgotten email to that one.
<stub> Otherwise if you can sign some text with that GPG key and pastebin it somewhere that should be fine.
<noideayet> stub, can you tell me which email the password was sent to?
<stub> Or I could just tell you the email address since it is actually public (despite the private flag being set on it), because it is exposed in your GPG key
<stub> http://keyserver.ubuntu.com:11371/pks/lookup?search=0x757408F6&op=index
<noideayet> got it.
<noideayet> Finished the merge
<noideayet> stub, thanks!
<ubotu> New bug: #145206 in launchpad "Long team membership lists make it hard to find pending members" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/145206
<jjesse> is it just me or is launchpad running slow today?
<sabdfl> dneary: did you figure out how do do it, or do you want me to take a look?
<dneary> sabdfl: Didn't get any answers
<dneary> So the questions still stands
<dneary> I just haven't been able to find the menu entry, and I think that the last time it was done (for the 2.1 branch), it was alkylyn that did it
<ddaa> jjesse: there seems to be some sort of problem with the data center
<jjesse> ddaa: oh ok, just wondered if my connection was having problems or something
<Balaams_Miracle> Ah, so i'm not the only one. That rules out my ISP messing things up
<ddaa> As far as I can tell, ubuntu.com, canonical.com and launchpad.net just fell off the net. Our sysadmins are investigating. You might want to check #canonical-sysadmin for updates (please be quiet, they are busy fixing the network).
<sidnei> hey there, is launchpad down?
<sidnei> im getting timeouts here :(
<ddaa> there is a network problem
<ddaa> sysadmins are investigating
<sidnei> ok, thank you!
* ..[topic/#launchpad:ddaa] : https://launchpad.net connectivity is having issues, sysadmins are investigating | Next developer meeting: Thu 27 Sep 2007, 1400UTC | List: launchpad-users@lists.canonical.com | Support: https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad | Help: https://help.launchpad.net | Channel logs: http://tinyurl.com/72w39
<mrevell> ddaa: Ah, we're back I believe
<ddaa> looks like
<ddaa> mrevell: feel free to update the topic, but I'd rather wait until we have confirmation that the problem is solved.
<mrevell> ddaa: Yeah, absolutely right to wait
<Pici> Do we know what the problem was?
<ddaa> I'm sure mrevell will write an enlightening message once we know :)
<mrevell> i shall :)
<mrevell> to launchpad-users
* mwh is not sure "was" is appropriate yet
<iwj> It's still broken for me.
<ddaa> looks down again
<sidnei> i second that
<barry> yes, it's very slow for me too
<iwj> I just got ECONNTIMEDOUT.
<mwh> barry: is there a review meeting in 23 minutes?
<mwh> i would check the wiki, but...
<barry> mwh: hopefully ;)
<mwh> right
<barry> actually, yes.  i managed to get a page with the agenda so unless everyone's off fighting fires, we should still have it
<jjesse> agreed
<jjesse> doh wrong channel
* carlos -> lunch
<sabdfl> (14:33:59) sabdfl: dneary: you want 2.2 as the development focus?
<sabdfl> (14:35:03) sabdfl: the page you want is https://edge.launchpad.net/wengophone/+edit
<dneary> sabdfl: Yes, please
<flacoste> barry: meeting time?
* ..[topic/#launchpad:ddaa] : https://launchpad.net | Next developer meeting: Thu 27 Sep 2007, 1400UTC | List: launchpad-users@lists.canonical.com | Support: https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad | Help: https://help.launchpad.net | Channel logs: http://tinyurl.com/72w39
<barry> hello everyone and welcome to this week's launchpad reviewer team meeting.  for the next 45 minutes or less we'll be talking about the launchpad code review process
<barry> Agenda
<barry>     * Roll call
<barry>     * Next meeting
<barry>     * Action items
<barry>     * Queue status
<barry>     * Mentoring update
<barry> so, let's get started...
<barry>     * Roll call
<mwh> here
<barry> who's here today?
<statik> me
<sinzui> me
<salgado> me
<bac> me
<flacoste> me
<flacoste> BjornT is sprinting
<barry> cool.
<barry> intellectronic1, intellectronica: ping
<flacoste> intellectronica is also sprinting i think
<barry> flacoste: cool, thanks
<barry>     * Next meeting
<barry> same time and place?  does anyone know they will not be here?
<barry> 5
<barry> 4
<barry> 3
<barry> 2
<intellectronic1> me
<barry> 1
<intellectronic1> (sprinting, but sine i didn't apologized in advance i'll try to pay attention)
<barry> intellectronic1: cool thanks.
<barry>     * Action items
<barry> so we had a few people volunteer to do things last week and i just wanted to review them.  first, let me apologies for not sending last week's meeting minutes.  they were sitting on a machine in a state of semi-upgradedness ;)
<barry> i've updated the wiki and will email the minutes for last week and this week later today
<barry> anyway,..
<barry> Actions from the last meeting:
<barry>     * flacoste to add a reviewer's checklist page
<flacoste> done
<barry> flacoste: thanks!  can you remind folks of the url?
<flacoste> i sent an email to the review list to request feedback<
<statik> that has been useful for me already
<flacoste> https://launchpad.canonical.com/CodeReviewChecklist
<mwh> yes, i thought it was nice
<intellectronic1> i promised to get the review_tools into mainline, but haven't finished that yet. sorry! will get that done asap
<barry> me too. great job flacoste.  has anybody /not/ read that page yet?
<barry> cool.
<sinzui> Me
<bac> me
<salgado> me
* sinzui stares at feet to avoid glances
<kiko> ahoy there
<barry> definitely take a look when you get a chance.  it's really helpful
<barry> intellectronic1: that was the next action item.  it's a great week0 task :)
<barry>     * barry to add a page for mentors and recruits
<barry> https://launchpad.canonical.com/MentorProcess
<barry> feel free to read it and comment or update it.  discuss on launchpad-reviews if there are questions/comments
<barry>     * sinzui to help make lint.sh better by updating pylint.
<sinzui> Not done. I'll have bug 141317 in review  by Monday
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 141317 in launchpad "Add pylint as a make target" [Low,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/141317 - Assigned to Curtis Hovey (sinzui-is)
<mwh> barry: can you (or did you?) send a mail to launchpad-reviews inviting comments?
<barry> sinzui: rock on
<barry> mwh: i might have forgotten :(
<barry> mwh: i'll do that after this meeting
<mwh> barry: thanks
<barry> mwh: thanks for poking me about it :)
<barry>     * barry will try to find someone to work on [WWW]  bug 113626 to extend pending-reviews to run make lint for us.
<barry>     * barry will coordinate for reviewer's sprint at all-hands
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 113626 in launchpad "pending-reviews should run and display the output of make lint" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/113626
<barry> no progress on that.  i suck.
<bac> sinzui: do we need to add pylint to launchpad-developer-dependencies package?
<sinzui> bac: That's one option. I was thinking of adding it to our source because gutsy will still be several revs behind the current release.
<bac> sinzui: right.
<barry>     * Queue status
<barry> i'm able to get to PendingReviews now :)  salgado, i think you did a bunch of assignments yesterday, right?  the general queue looks pretty good.
<ubotu> New bug: #145223 in launchpad "Reset Password page unusable on IE7" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/145223
<salgado> barry, yep, I did yesterday afternoon. will do more today
<barry> salgado: awesome, thanks.  good to see the earlybirds getting their .10 branches posted :)
<mwh> i should point out that my ubuntu machine is out of action (dead hd)
<mwh> should get it back tomorrow, but i can't really review anything until friday, i expect
<barry> mwh: thanks for the update
<barry> we currently have 7 branches in needs-review over sla
<barry> jamesh has a pretty old one of tim's but it's in conflict
<barry> as is intellectronic1's branch that sinzui has
<barry> anything else to say about the queue?
<sinzui> intellectronic1's branch is a victim of enums. It's not too bad
<barry> sinzui: excellent. those are easy to resolve
<intellectronic1> sinzui: whoops, sorry, will resolve later today after we finish sprinting
<barry> it'll be nice when we finish that conversion and can stop worrying about conflicts there
<kiko> barry, there should be few open tasks on that bug, right?
<barry> kiko: which bug?
<kiko> the enums bug.
<sinzui> I thought everyone would 'sprint' to get those converted.
<barry> i don't know who still has conversions to do
<statik> I've got a conversion in my review queue for translations
<intellectronic1> malone still has a few. i started on them, and will finish before the end of the week
<sinzui> slow conversions make extra work because of the afore mentioned conflicts
<barry> kiko: maybe bring this up at tomorrow's meeting?
<barry> kiko: wasn't there a deadline of .10 to finish the conversions?
<kiko> barry, yes, I'm sure it'll happen
<barry> cool
<barry> anything else on the queue?
<bac> that'll be a good week 0 fix it friday task
<barry> 5
<barry> 4
<barry> 3
<barry> 2
<barry> 1
<barry>     * Mentoring update
<barry> does anybody have comments, questions, problems, blockers, kudos, enlightenment, fears, uncertainty, or doubt?
<sinzui> None from me
<flacoste> no
<barry> are any recruits blocking on mentor reviews?
<barry> 5
<barry> 4
<barry> 3
<barry> 2
<barry> 1
<barry> okay, that's it from me.  anything not on the agenda or shall we end early? :)
<barry> silence == assent
<barry> MEETING ENDS
<barry> thanks everyone!
<salgado> thanks barry 
<kiko> thanks
<intellectronic1> thanks barry
<bac> assent == death?
<bac> thanks barry
<mwh> thanks barry 
<flacoste> thanks
<ScottK> I noticed that pylint came up during your meeting.  If someone would ask for an upstream version freeze exception for pylint, it'd probably be approved for Gutsy.
* barry goes to write and send the minutes now :)
<kiko> ScottK, I asked one for pyflakes a bit back -- I spoke to ajmitch about it
<ScottK> Right.  There's an outstanding bug asking for pylint, but it doesn't have the needed info for a UVFe.  It seems reasonable to me to do it, but I'd like to have all the info.
<ScottK> Seems to me it'd be better for you all to get it into Gutsy rather than maintain your own version separately.
<kiko> ScottK, do you have the bug handy?
<ScottK> No.
* ScottK looks
<sinzui> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pylint/+bug/141013
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 141013 in pylint "Gutsy should use a new pylint package" [Wishlist,Confirmed]  
<kiko> thanks
<ScottK> That one.
<ScottK> IIRC ajmitch mentioned there were two other packages that would need to be updated too.
<ScottK> I don't recall which.
<sinzui> that's right. most of the pylint improvements are in their underlying packages.
<ScottK> In any case, it takes someone taking the time to make sure it all builds and works correctly.  You'll have to to that work anyway if you maintain it separately.
<ScottK> It'd be nice to get it into Gutsy so everyone benifits ....
<kiko> good point.
<ScottK> As a motu-uvf person, I'm inclined to approve it if it all works out, just need someone to do the legwork first....
<sinzui> ScottK: and that means Gutsy amd64 and i386 testing?
<kiko> ScottK, I might ask ajmitch again, he has helped me reliably before :)
<ubotu> New bug: #145240 in launchpad-cscvs "Cannot import whole repository" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/145240
<Odd_Bloke> Does anyone know of a good way to get an IRC notification when a LP branch is committed to?
<dneary> It appears I don't have permissions. Will have to hassle someone else.
<mwh> Odd_Bloke: get your bot a launchpad account, subscribe it to the branch
<mwh> (then it will get email)
<Odd_Bloke> mwh: OK, thanks. :)
<ScottK> sinzui: For Python apps testing on any one arch should be sufficient.
<sinzui> ScottK: That was not my experience running an AMD64 for Feisty, with Python 2.4 and Python 2.5
<sinzui> ScottK: That was a bad 3 weeks ;/
<ScottK> sinzui: Unless the application in question has C extensions or addresses memory directly, I'd expect it to be OK, but for those cases, yes.
<ScottK> I don't think any of that applies to pylint and friends.
<pochu> BjornT: matsubara: what do you think about bug 137997?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 137997 in malone "+filebug-advanced should have Importance, Status and Assigne fields" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/137997
<matsubara> pochu: in the past I'd like to have such feature but nowadays I don't use the advanced form anymore. the duplicate finder feature is just too good to not use it.
<matsubara> pochu: but I think there's another bug requesting something similar
<pochu> Oh, is there?
<pochu> But I do use it, and probably some people does too. And more will do if that bug is fixed ;)
<matsubara> pochu: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/malone/+bug/89146
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 89146 in malone "Combine simple and "complicated" bug-reporting forms (using Ajax)" [Undecided,Confirmed]  
<matsubara> pochu: and there's some discussion about adding tags while filing a new bug in bug 54359
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 54359 in malone "We should be able to add tags while reporting bugs." [Low,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/54359
<pochu> matsubara: thanks. commented on 54359
<matsubara> thank you pochu 
<pochu> matsubara: I'd like to see those two bugs fixed :-)
<matsubara> pochu: I don't care anymore for 54359. You can use the simple form like: +filebug?field.tag=foo and the tag foo will be added. It'd be nice to have 89146 fixed, though
<pochu> matsubara: I'm not sure I understand it well... Does it say when you fill a field, then another is showed?
<ubotu> New bug: #98396 in launchpad "testbrowser resolves relative URLs incorrectly" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/98396
<matsubara> pochu: the way I see it, it'd work like when you file an issue in a code.google.com hosted project. If you're the owner or is related to the project in some way you'd have all the fields (importance, assignee, etc) but collapsed by default.
<pochu> matsubara: and if you open them, do they open all at a time, or one by one?
<pochu> I think all of them should be opened at one time.
* pochu doesn't feel like opening all of them ;)
<matsubara> scratch "collapsed by default". if you're not related to the project, you'd not have the fields available and if you're the form would show all the advanced fields.
<pochu> Nice. Go for it then! :)
<jamesie> Hi, I wanted to report a bug last week but my registration didn't complete. I got a confirmation today but it looks like I now have 2 launchpad accounts one orphan wiki/JamesCooley the new one with wiki/JamesCooley2. Is this hard to fix or are there two of us?
<matsubara> jamesie: what's you Launchpad id?
<RainCT> hi
<RainCT> I can't push (bzr) to launchpad because of some lock error (http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/38692/), any idea how to fix it?
<jamesie> I think i used james@cooley.ie to register?
<mwh> RainCT: bzr break-lock sftp://whatever/whatever
<matsubara> jamesie: you can merge both your accounts. Log in with the account you want to keep and request a merge in: https://launchpad.net/people/+requestmerge
<RainCT> mwh: thanks! :)
<pochu> matsubara: do you have an stimated ETA for that bug? (combine bug reporting forms)
<pochu> s/stimated/estimated/
<matsubara> pochu: sorry, nope. BjornT would know.
<pochu> BjornT: same question ^ :-)
<pochu> matsubara: thanks for the info!
<matsubara> pochu: yw
<jamesie> matsubara: Thanks, I'll give that a shot.
<jamesie> Sln
#launchpad 2007-09-27
<Daviey> Hey...
<Daviey> "Poll" - how should the date & time be added?
* popey pokes kiko 
<popey> any lp admins about, we need a poll deleting 
<Daviey> kiko: ping
<poolie__> can anyone tell me: who is allowed to add download files for a project?
<kiko> Daviey, pong
<kiko> poolie__, only project owners, I believe.
<Daviey> kiko: Can you remove a poll from a team?
<kiko> Daviey, you'll need to ask for support, above, because that needs DBA intervention.
<poolie> kiko, i think this person (bialix) is a member of the ~bzr
<poolie> group
<kiko> poolie, and he can't see the link, or..?
<Daviey> kiko: raise a Q @ https://answers.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad ?
<poolie> kiko, he gets https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/145416
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 145416 in launchpad "Who's allowed to add download files?" [Undecided,New]  
<kiko> Daviey, yes, exactly.
<kiko> poolie, that sounds like a question, not a bug?
<poolie> i can change it to an assertion
<poolie> doen
<Daviey> kiko: done, thanks
<poolie> kiko, the bug is "it's not clear who's allowed to download files"
<poolie> but i guess i should also file a question
<kiko> Daviey, thanks.
<kiko> poolie, ah, one thing.
<kiko> poolie, it is actually possible that the registrant of the series or release is the one allowed.
<poolie> ok
<poolie> that might explain it
<poolie> i'm not sure that's the best behaviour though
<poolie> i'd like to let port maintainers upload their work directly
<poolie> is fix-it-friday still running?
<mpt> Goooooooooooooooooooood afternoon Launchpadders!
<ubotu> New bug: #145416 in launchpad "It is not clear who is allowed to add download files" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/145416
<kiko> poolie, it sounds like an ugly bug in fact
<kiko> but I am pulling a branch to find out.
<poolie> kiko, it's not super urgent
<poolie> just surprising
<poolie> i can upload for him
<poolie> hello mpt!
<kiko> hey mpt 
<poolie> i'm trying to add a comment on https://answers.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/14071
<poolie> and it just stalls - no timeout error
<kiko> poolie, can you leave it to timeout?
<kiko> I have seen this happen before 
<kiko> but it was a backend crash
<poolie> sorry, i closed the window
<poolie> it was stalled for more than 2 minutes
<ubotu> New bug: #145420 in launchpad "Final batches of 1~2 items are annoying" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/145420
<ubotu> New bug: #145423 in launchpad "fmt:link shouldn't link to the same page" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/145423
<ubotu> New bug: #145428 in soyuz "Source package page looks like a discussion" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/145428
<poolie> thanks kiko!
<kiko> you're welcome poolie 
<pwnguin> should i be concerned if uploading a .dsc is taking forever?
<poolie> how do i make a team?
<gnomefreak> same way you made your personal account iirc
<poolie> gnomefreak, i have it, it's  in the dropdown menu from the top bar
<poolie> gnomefreak, i made my account through the login/register window
<poolie> which is much more easily reached
<poolie> anyhow it's bug 102361
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 102361 in launchpad "It's not obvious how to register a team" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/102361
<gnomefreak> i see, we did lose the teams/people page or atleast there is no link for it 
<gnomefreak> goes to read bug
<gnomefreak> problem is the way to get dropdown from home is to click on home than it just reloads launchpad.net so you cant click on the menu items (atleast here)
<poolie> gnomefreak, if i hover the mouse over it for a couple of seconds then the menu pops down and i can click things
<poolie> but it's a bit tricky
<spiv> It is very hard to find https://help.launchpad.net/UsingMaloneEmail on help.launchpad.net
<lifeless> spiv: easy via google
<ubotu> New bug: #145472 in launchpad "Acer Aspire 5050 - Sound doesn't work" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/145472
<pwnguin> hey uh, do ppas actually have source repos?
<pwnguin> http://ppa.launchpad.net/jldugger/ubuntu/dists/gutsy/restricted/source/
<pwnguin> hah, wrong repo
<mpt> I will give a chocolate fish to the person who figures out why so many people ask Ubuntu-related questions at http://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad instead of http://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu
<Hobbsee> mpt: because launchpad is the ubuntu bugtracker.
<Hobbsee> mpt: that's what's on all the information
<Hobbsee> mpt: ie, so the bugtracker must be called "launchpad" - they dont get projects.
<Hobbsee> "oh, i have to ask my question on launchpad.  this says launchpad.  this must be right"
<stdin> same reason they report Ubuntu bugs as Launchpad bugs, like bug #145472
<mpt> Hobbsee, that's just the thing. We worked hard to eliminate old links to <http://launchpad.net/malone>, and now people *don't* report Ubuntu bugs against the Launchpad project(s) any more.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 145472 in launchpad "Acer Aspire 5050 - Sound doesn't work" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/145472
<mpt> but they *do* ask Ubuntu questions, and that's what baffles me.
<mpt> Where by "don't" I mean "hardly ever" :-P
<Hobbsee> mpt: the documentation probably points them without the ubuntu on the end?
<Hobbsee> and probably because LP is still difficult to use, if you've not seen it before
<mpt> What documentation? Something in Ubuntu Help? Something on the wiki? Something in Launchpad itself?
<mpt> Sure, I know Launchpad is difficult to use. I mean, specifically.
<Hobbsee> i'd guess ubuntu help & wiki
<mpt> There is some misleading link, or misleading field, somewhere
<Hobbsee> mpt: we're still getting people going "oh, i cant find package X in launcphad - it says it doesnt use this to track it's bugs.  this cant be right.  help, i'm lost!"
<Hobbsee> probably
<pwnguin> as hard to use as launchpad may or may not be
<mpt> Yes, (I'm almost certain) I know why *that* problem exists -- it's because we have something that looks like a search field that searches only projects, not packages
<pwnguin> its better than the alternatives =/
<mpt> But that's a separate problem.
* Hobbsee looks around
<Hobbsee> pwnguin: that's true.  although i like kde's bugzilla in some ways
<pwnguin> ultimately i think its a branding issue
<Hobbsee> ubuntu.com is pointing to the right page
<Hobbsee> might be from the forums
<pwnguin> if people start using say bugs.ubuntu.com instead of "launchpad"
<pwnguin> in ubuntu
<mpt> Hmm, our refer[r] er logs might contain the answer
<Hobbsee> mpt: uh, yeah.
<Hobbsee> mpt: i thougth you'd have checked that, before asking :)
<Hobbsee> pwnguin: on the release notes and such, it's "The ubuntu bugtracker"
<pwnguin> how the heck DO they do that?
<pwnguin> it takes some effort to report against LP itself =/
<Hobbsee> pwnguin: never underestimate the power of clueless people.
<Hobbsee> AHEM.  did i say that?
<Hobbsee> i must have been working too much
<pwnguin> mpt: considered asking him when you close the bug?
<mpt> This is not about bugs
<mpt> The equivalent problem for bugs is now (almost completely) solved
<mpt> This is about questions.
<mpt> urgh, I can't open source package pages any more
<mpt> Ah, it's an edge-only problem
<ubotu> New bug: #145493 in soyuz "Source package page oopses on edge" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/145493
<Hobbsee> mpt: oh yay, you saw my bug :)
<mpt> hmm?
<Hobbsee> mpt: the versions/maintainer/etc panel on launchpad
<mpt> oh, in bug pages
<mpt> yes
<mpt> It's awkward, because we're also trying to make the bug pages less context-specific
<mpt> (so that the same bug doesn't end up in Google umpteen times)
<mpt> And that box was the one big context-specific thing.
<mpt> The one big thing about the bug page (apart from the headings) that was different from context to context.
<Daviey> Hey, are you LP admins around with DB acess?
<Daviey> schwuk: Do you have DB access to LP?
<schwuk> Daviey: Not directly.
<Daviey> poop... i need a Poll removed :(
<mwh> file a Question, i think
<Daviey> mwh: done :)
<mwh> k
<TomaszD> carlos, 9 days for rosetta .po import. Will it make it before the final langpack is created? :P
<carlos> I hope it :-(
<carlos> we are planning a workaround to get this complete as soon as possible
<TomaszD> oh man, I wish I just used the batch option and translated this in rosetta instead of uploading the po file
<TomaszD> carlos, still no langpack this week :(
<carlos> well, it's planned to be done today or tomorrow
<carlos> with beta release, the archive was closed
<TomaszD> yeah
<Ng> what is implied by marking a LP project as inactive? does it disappear?
<hexmode> https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~hexmode/+junk/i2ce-debian ... Doesn't seem to be mirroring
<hexmode> the problem was fixed
<ubotu> New bug: #145624 in malone "Malone footer text partly non-clickable" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/145624
<ubotu> New bug: #145626 in malone "Malone milestone lists shows last bug twice" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/145626
<statik> me
<statik> hey there stub, what's the weather like this time of year?
* sinzui rushes off for coffee
<bigjools-afk> me
<cprov> me
<salgado> SteveA is not going to be around today, right?
<statik> right
<salgado> is mpt going to chair the meeting, then?
<bac> isn't kiko our leader today?
<salgado> maybe. I don't remember
<gmb> That's the idea, yes.
<mpt> kiko?
<flacoste> me
<salgado> we're calling him. he's not working from the office today
* jtv imitates the whistle of a bicycle geekette in heat
<SteveA> salgado: I'm not around today
<statik> sweet fancy moses I just saw a ghost
<SteveA> mpt: would you chair today's meeting please?
<mpt> ok
<mpt> MEETING TIME
<mpt> For the next I-don't-know-how-many minutes, we'll be discussing Launchpad development.
<gmb> allenap just said "me" out loud.
<mpt> Who is here today?
<statik> me
<sinzui> me
<allenap> me
<flacoste> me
<bigjools> me
<gmb> me
<jtv> me
<intellectronica> me
<bac> me
<jsk> me
<adeuring> me
<ddaa> me
<BjornT> me
<barry> me
<salgado> me
<stub> me
<jsk> gmb: lol
<cprov> me
<jamesh> me
<matsubara> me
<mrevell> meme
<mrevell> er, me
<mpt> We're spreading memes
<danilos> me
<ddaa> mwh seems to be late, he went out to collect his fixed laptop
<mpt> ok
<mpt> team leads, please check the presence of your colleagues
<mpt> == Agenda ==
<jtv> Trying to get to carlos...
<mpt>  * Next meeting
<mpt>  * Actions from last meeting
<mpt>  * Oops report (Matsubara)
<mpt>  * Critical Bugs (Rinchen)
<mpt>  * Bug tags
<mpt>  * Operations report (mthaddon)
<mpt>  * DBA report (stub)
<mpt>  * Sysadmin requests (Rinchen)
<schwuk> a belated me
<mpt>  * A top user-affecting issue (mrevell)
<mpt>  * Poll: who has read the "critical situations" policy - SteveA
* schwuk was distracted
<mpt>  * Importance for bugs related to missing/failing tests - flacoste
<EdwinGrubbs> me
<mpt>  * Blockers
<matsubara> mpt: I think the poll is from the last week meeting
<mpt> At this point I should apologize for not having published the notes from the last two weeks' meetings yet
<mwh> here now
<mpt> so the agenda is probably out of date
<mpt> If you have any subtractions or additions to make, please /msg me
<Hobbsee> mpt: poll was done last week, iirc.
<mpt> ok.
<mpt> == Apologies ==
<SteveA> me
<Hobbsee> "yes, i read it, and it was interesting, thrilling even." or something
<jtv> gripping, I believe
<SteveA> as in "I apologise for not being here today"
<Hobbsee> ah, gripping.  that's it.
<intellectronica> still is thrilling. i read it daily
* SteveA disappears again
<mpt> It appears that most of the apologies are out of date
<mpt> ah, and mwh is here now
<mpt> so, all the apologies are from previous weeks
<mpt> ok, moving on
<mpt> == Actions from last meeting ==
<flacoste> Rinchen and thumper are on vacation this week
<mpt>  * matsubara to get feedback from team leads about any security concerns in giving them access to the shared staging mailbox (unfinished from last week)
<mpt> That smells old. Is it?
<flacoste> that's also old stuff
<mpt> ok
<jtv> we've done that *twice*
<mpt> no others
<statik> that is so 2007
<matsubara> it's old mpt
<mpt> == Oops report ==
<mpt> (matsubara)
<matsubara> Today's oops report is about bugs 132270
<ubotu> Bug 132270 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/132270 is private
<matsubara> jamesh, news about #132270? It's been happening for quite some time now.
<lamont> dear launchpad: I want to have https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/postfix/+latest go to the right place
<danilos> mpt: that's old, we've had an OOPS report last week
<mpt> danilos, nice try
* lamont should file a bug, I guess.
<iwj> BjornT: Any news on my vanishing emails ?
<matsubara> jamesh: ?
<jamesh> matsubara: I haven't done a fix for that.  Has it been happening in production?
<cprov> lamont: yes, please.
<matsubara> jamesh: yes
<jamesh> (sorry, was waiting for the bug page to load)
<BjornT> iwj: no, not yet
<iwj> BjornT: Hmm.  There doesn't seem to be much point me turning the package tester back on until the emails are going to have some effect ...
<matsubara> jamesh: it's been triggered 6 times since last week.
<jamesh> matsubara: I'll have a look into it -- I think we've can handle that case with a failed assertion response rather than an OOPS
<jamesh> (I wonder if that bug needs to be private still?)
<matsubara> jamesh: it's private because it deals with the SSO stuff. up to you to make it public
<carlos> me
<BjornT> iwj: oh, i didn't realize it was blocking you. i'll take a look at it later today/tonight
<carlos> sorry, I was distracted...
<mpt> ok, is that all for the oops report?
<matsubara> jamesh: thanks for handling that.
<iwj> BjornT: Thanks.
<matsubara> mpt: I'm done with oops report. I'll follow on with Critical bugs
<mpt> == Critical bugs (matsubara filling in for Rinchen) ==
<matsubara> We have 3 not in progress critical bugs 129942, 141614, 141652.
<ubotu> Bug 129942 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/129942 is private
<matsubara> mpt, what's the status of #129942 (btw, that bug doesn't seem critical by DefinitionofCriticalPolicy)
<matsubara> #141614 is another one for you mpt.
<matsubara> sinzui can you check #141652? It looks like a janitor issue.
<matsubara> cprov, have an ETA for bug 144392?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 144392 in soyuz "cron.daily dies after poppy restart because of permission problems with queue dot-lock file" [Critical,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/144392 - Assigned to Celso Providelo (cprov)
<cprov> matsubara: it's pending review, isn't it ?
<ubotu> New bug: #145640 in launchpad "Got an oops looking for openoffice.org2" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/145640
<lamont> OOPS-635EA140  
<lamont> hrm... is that supposed to happen?
<mpt> matsubara, 129942 is critical because Mark needs it. I'll do it tomorrow.
<mpt> 141614 I don't know how to fix, except that reverting 2007-09-privates probably would do it
<matsubara> cprov: thank you
<mpt> so I'll get Brilliant onto it if I can get in touch with them in the next day, otherwise I will revert
<sinzui> salgado: it is a duplicate of bug 141597
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 141597 in malone "bug janitor expires bug reports that should remain open." [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/141597 - Assigned to Curtis Hovey (sinzui-is)
<salgado> sinzui, s/salgado/matsubara/?
<sinzui> my applogies
<matsubara> hello ddaa 
<matsubara> sinzui: please mark it as a dupe then
<ddaa> matsubara: ?
<matsubara> ddaa: just joking. it seems that sinzui can tell me and salgado apart
<matsubara> ddaa: like you :-)
<matsubara> thanks mpt.
<matsubara> I'm done.
<mpt> ok, thanks matsubara 
<mpt> == Bug tags ==
<ddaa> I can tell you apart IRL, it's just that I be confused by the nicknames somehow.
<mpt> There are four proposed tags: oops-tools, librarian, foaf, and another one
<mpt> Are these all from this week?
<cprov> matsubara: sorry, I was distracted with a soyuz issue ... uhm, yes that fix is pending-review from kiko, I will poke him later.
<mpt> Or have they already been discussed?
<mrevell> mpt: I believe they're new this week.
<flacoste> they are current
<matsubara> cprov: that's all right. if it's in the queue everything is fine. thanks
<mpt> ok
<mpt>  * oops-tools, proposed by matsubara
<flacoste> +1
<mpt> Bugs related to the scripts used to generate oops reports, oops.cgi and the processes related to oops in general
<mpt> There are 7 examples that have the tag already
<mpt> Actually, since neither SteveA, nor kiko, nor Rinchen are here, we're not really in a position to decide on any of these
<flacoste> then defer
<mpt> right
<mpt> Tags deferred to next week.
<mpt> == Operations report (mthaddon) ==
<mpt> ... Isn't here.
<flacoste> tom is also on vacation this week
<mpt> stub, do you have anything to say about operations?
<stub> staging is screwed atm due to unusable backups.
<stub> friday rollouts suck
<stub> erm...
<salgado> stub, do we have an ETA for staging to be updated again?
<stub> Hopefully tomorrow
<mpt> ok, thanks stub
<mpt> and now for an encore
<mpt> == DBA report (stub) ==
<stub> If it doesn't come back tomorrow, then it is blocked on other issues being sorted.
<stub> My email is only trickling in at the moment I think due to blockage at one of my providers.
<stub> The postgresql crasher we had has been reported upstream and a fix apparently landed to upstream CVS. We need to get this fix onto our production systems as the current work around only makes it less likely to strike us.
<stub> We still have the 'syntax error' issue with the full text indexes to track down and deal with.
<stub> staging is dead due to unusable backups, again tsearch2 seems to be the trigger and it is possibly related to the syntax error problem.
<stub> The corruption I discovered on the bug table has been repaired.
<stub> Load is now becoming a problem, particularly noticible with the Rosetta imports and exports, so sorting out our replication is my priority now when not firefighting. Hopefully the fires will die out enough for this to happen before things fall over.
<stub> Waiting on a go ahead to unexpire the expired bugs using sinzui's script.
<ubotu> New bug: #145642 in launchpad "please add +latest support to source URL" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/145642
<sinzui> Kiko wanted to review a sample of the changes. I waiting for a two-thumbs-up-thunderbirds-are-go-but-I-will-accept-a-simple-go from kiko.
<stub> sounds like all
<mpt> marvellous
<carlos> stub: we are working on performance improvements to reduce the load caused by import/export scripts
<mpt> == Sysadmin requests (mrevell filling in for Rinchen) ==
<matsubara> I thought that would be me
<carlos> and the phase2 db changes that we are starting this cycle should also reduce that problem a bit (just to make sure you don't need to do work that maybe we fix improving our model/code)
<mrevell> matsubara: Please go ahead, following our earlier conversation.
<matsubara> anyway, if anyone has any pending RT please speak
<matsubara> I'll pass them on to joey.
<mpt> 28993, fixing brilliant.launchpad.net
<mpt> It's kinda urgent now
<matsubara> if it needs to be solved this week, I'll try to contact elmo or kiko
<matsubara> noted mpt 
<matsubara> I'll follow up on that with kiko after the meeting.
<mpt> thanks
<matsubara> anyone else?
<matsubara> 5
<matsubara> 4
<matsubara> 3
<matsubara> 2
<matsubara> 1
<matsubara> ok, back to you mpt 
<mpt> thanks
<stub> carlos: We still need replication to be scalable - the imports and exports will never be free.
<mpt> == A top user-affecting issue (mrevell) ==
<mrevell> With the release of Launchpad 1.1.9, I came to realise that we need a more robust way to pre-announce changes that we plan to introduce to the way Launchpad works.
<mrevell> I'm working on a new process for announcing coming changes and, in particular, highlighting any major changes. 
<carlos> stub: ok
<mrevell> Today, I've posted to the launchpad-users list with my ideas for the process (subject "Announcing Coming Changes in Launchpad").
<Hobbsee> mrevell: like the mess of auto-closing bugs?
<mrevell> Please reply if you have a suggestion or question regarding the way I/we announce coming changes in Launchpad.
<mpt> Hobbsee, exactly.
<ubotu> New bug: #145647 in launchpad "OOPS-635EC98 on https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/util-linux" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/145647
<danilos> Hobbsee: you are making sinzui hurt
<mrevell> Hobbsee: Well, that's certainly a feature that would get special attention under the new process
<stub> carlos: And your changes if they improve throughput might increase load, making replication more of an issue
<mrevell> Sorry, I shouldn't say I've posted with my ideas for the process, I've posted to start discussiokn
<sinzui> danilos: Hobbsee: my self-esteem is so low right now I'm living on sarcasm.
<Hobbsee> mrevell: although sometimes, even though we knew about the auto-bug closing, we didnt know that it would do it for bugs that had been commented on in the last 60 days too.
<mrevell> anyway, looking forward to hearing what people have to say
* Hobbsee gives sinzui a virtual hug
<mrevell> Hobbsee: I see, right. Well, there are definitely lessons to be learned and we will learn them :)
<mpt> Hobbsee, to be fair, nobody knew that. That was a bug.
<Hobbsee> mpt: ah right
<mrevell> mpt thanks, back to you boss.
<mpt> Wait, I'm your boss now? You're confusing me
<Hobbsee> oh, and related to that....please do *NOT* release on a friday!!!!  Especially when we're not in hte middle of a ubuntu freeze!!!
<carlos> stub: maybe :-)
<mpt> == Importance for bugs related to missing/failing tests - flacoste ==
<jsk> Hobbsee: +1
<mrevell> mpt: boss of the meeting
<flacoste> While triaging bugs I found many bugs for "missing/disabled" tests.
<flacoste> Most of these bugs didn't have a priority set or it was Low/Medium.
<flacoste> This doesn't seem right to me and I'd like us to define a policy for such
<flacoste> bugs.
<flacoste> I'll take it to the list for further discussion.
<sinzui> Hobbsee: yes, we voilated warsaws laws, and paid the pentality
<Hobbsee> please do not introduce the possibility of screwing over ubuntu work, unless you are willing to stick around on teh weekend and fix any breakage.
<flacoste> back to our host, mpt
<Hobbsee> or phear the Long Pointy Stick of DOOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  :P
<mpt> thanks flacoste 
<Hobbsee> sinzui: yes...
<mpt> Which, I think, leaves us only with
<mpt> == Blockers ==
<mpt> Team leads, please report
<flacoste> Foundations Team: not blocked
<mrevell> RELEASES TEAM: mpt blocked on RT request 28993 regarding replacing brilliant.launchpad.net. Matsubara to chase IS.
<barry> sinzui: warsaw's 2nd law to be precise :)
<jtv> Translations Team: not blocked
<bigjools> Soyuz Team: not blocked
<adeuring> HWDB Team: not blocked
<BjornT> Bugs: kiko to give sinzui the go-ahead to revert the expiring of bugs
<ddaa> Code Team: not blocked
<statik> collaborative commerce: not blocked
<mpt> That everyone?
<flacoste> missing the swat team
<mpt> looks like it
<mpt> ah yes
<mpt> Special Ops team, come in please
<flacoste> SteveA is not here
<mpt> jamesh?
<flacoste> jamesh, stub?
<stub> Not blocked
<jamesh> not blocked either
<stub> SC: not blocked
<mpt> ok, excellent
<mpt> And that brings another Launchpad development meeting to a close
<mpt> MEETING ENDS
<flacoste> thanks mpt!
<mpt> thank you everyone
<barry> thanks mpt
<mwh> thanks mpt
<mrevell> thanks mpt
<jsk> mpt: cheers ;)
<statik> thanks mpt
<gmb> thanks mpt
<gmb> Someone get him some flowers or something...
<mrevell> :)
<stub> Anyone send me anything urgent since I haven't seen your emails?
<Hobbsee> sinzui: you're the auto-closing bug man, i take it?
<sinzui> Hobbsee: I am cause of the conflagration.
<Hobbsee> sinzui: i wasnt going to particularly roast you over it, dont worry
<Hobbsee> sinzui: i've had a thought, though.  we often get users who will give us the required information, yet wont reset the status of the bug.  when the auto-closing was put in, i'd expected it to become more like the answers section - a button for "i've provided the required info" which resets the status, and another for "i'm adding a comment which isnt the info which is being asked for".
<Hobbsee> (in proper LPesque)
<Hobbsee> sinzui: were there plans to implement that?
<sinzui> Hobbsee: that has been discussed in more than one bug
<Hobbsee> sinzui: right.  i havent looked it up.
<Hobbsee> what was the outcome?
<sinzui> Hobbsee: I believe the general issue with is is that bug status are meant to be a forward path to Fix Released, Wont Fix, or Invalid. Bug statuses should not go backwards.
<sinzui> Hobbsee: So the button is really a worflow operation. 
<Hobbsee> sinzui: which requires that a developer, or someone else, actually gets to the bug to mark it as confirmed, by the required time.
<Hobbsee> sinzui: my problem basically is bugs that we ask for info on, they respond, but we dont get back to in time - and they die.
<Hobbsee> sinzui: really, i'd like to split the bugs into "they've given us the required info - set it back to the previous until i set it something else", or "they havent provided info.  kill it."
<sinzui> Hobbsee: It is clear that many, (I'd guess 20%) of users believe that Incomplete can mean 'I'm blocked, I need more information'. That is a separate, and I think valid issue.
<Hobbsee> what's incomplete supposed to mean then?
<Hobbsee> "this is missing information"
<Hobbsee> "i dont have enough info to solve your problem.  i need x,y, and z"
<sinzui> Hobbsee: The path is New -> (Incomplete) -> Confirmed. Incomplete is an extra step to get it to confirmed.
<Hobbsee> sinzui: indeed, but the problme is, the reporters arent marking them as confirmed when they get the info.
<sinzui> Incomplete meas that their is not enough information to identify the report as a bug
<lamont> Hobbsee: the reporter shouldn't be marking it confirmed
<Hobbsee> sinzui: they put the info, and dont change the status (and the fact that the LP UI is horrid (sorry, mpt) for those who havent seen it before, to attempt to change statuses doesnt help with that)
<Hobbsee> lamont: then it relies on a triager, or a dev to get back to it within 60 days - and that's dangerous.
<lamont> or should they?
<lamont> could they move it back to 'New'?
<Hobbsee> lamont: because a whole subset of the packages with large bugs in main dont really have paid devs to deal with them, and so they move very slowly.
<Hobbsee> lamont: i'm thinking they should move back to new, or whatever they were before.
<lamont> I like that answer
<Hobbsee> lamont: this is talking about hte real world - not the ideal case.
* lamont has always read "confirmed" as "someone officially labeled 'competent' agrees that this is a bug."
<Hobbsee> i think sinzui is dealing with the ideal case here - that someone will always look at the bugs quickly, when more info has been provided.
<sinzui> Hobbsee: That does happen, I found a few examples in my review. But comment activity will alleviate much of that. I think we should start this feature at 60 days without comments...send a warning. 30 days later expire it
<Hobbsee> sinzui: the other problem is that people tend to ignore needsinfo bugs, as they still need info.
<Hobbsee> although i think this may have been helped with the new 1.1.9, with the new statuses
<Hobbsee> in the search
<sinzui> Hobbsee: that is why the warning will be helpful. bug 141604
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 141604 in malone "Expiration janitor should put an expiration notice on bug page" [High,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/141604 - Assigned to Curtis Hovey (sinzui-is)
<charliecb> hi
<Hobbsee> sinzui: perhaps.  so we effectively get 90 days to respond, instead of 60.
<charliecb> i have a question: when i create a new project on launchpad and upload some sourcecode, which license has this code? i didn't find an option to choose for the registered project on launchpad...
<sinzui> Hobbsee: yep. Just sending a follow up message asking if the user is still having the problem will add 60 more days before another warning.
<Hobbsee> sinzui: works fine, assuming someone gets to it.
<Hobbsee> sinzui: seeing sa in some of the source packages i've seen, we've got bugs from *breezy* there....
<asac> hmm ... https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/firefox <- broken ... while https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/thunderbird works
<asac> any maintenance work going on? but why would that be for firefox?
<gmb> asac: It's not a maintenance thing. It looks like a bug.
<asac> :( ... let me see if it still works if i disable beta
<Ubulette> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/firefox works
<Ubulette> so it's edge
<gmb> Oh, joy.
<asac> maybe its because firefox has too many bugs :-D
<gmb> I'll file a bug report for this. Thanks for the heads-up asac, Ubulette.
<asac> gmb: thanks for taking over ... its essential for me to work on my main package ;)
<asac> for now i can do 2 hour batches then ;)
<radix> when you start getting an error page, you know it's time to rest your eyes and wrists ;-)
<gmb> asac: Filed as bug 145679.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 145679 in launchpad "OOPS when viewing Ubuntu Firefox Source Package on Edge" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/145679
<gmb> asac: If you come across any more instances of this, please feel free to add a comment to the bug.
<pochu> asac: it isn't blocked in the NEW queue, is it?
<matsubara> gmb, asac: I'm duping all of them against bug 145493. Please, use that one as the master bug
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 145493 in soyuz "Source package page oopses on edge" [Critical,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/145493
<gmb> Thanks matsubara.
<ubotu> New bug: #145679 in launchpad "OOPS when viewing Ubuntu Firefox Source Package on Edge (dup-of: 145493)" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/145679
<asac> gmb: ok ... let me subscribe
<matsubara> asac, gmb: I believe Mark fixed it in r4934
<asac> any eta for roll-out?
<matsubara> asac: the issue seems to affect only edge. next rollout will be tomorrow morning (~5utc)
<asac> great
<matsubara> workaround is to use launchpad.net
<asac> today 2 hours are enough for ffox work
<norsetto> cprov: you may know. what should I do to get my ubuntu.com address working?
<cprov> norsetto: I don't know what's the current procedure to do so, maybe talk to elmo.
<norsetto> elmo: James? Do you know?
<elmo> norsetto: what's your LP ID?
<norsetto> elmo: norsetto
<norsetto> * cough * 
<norsetto> anyone has a fisherman?
<elmo> norsetto: should be fixed now
<norsetto> elmo: much obliged
<ubotu> New bug: #145719 in soyuz "please strip signature from ppa changes announce mail to prevent uploads to real archive" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/145719
<jnthnjng> I'm curious -- can I satisfy dependencies in my PPA builds from the backports repositories?  or is it only possible to satisfy dependencies from main, universe and multiverse?
<kiko> jnthnjng, currently, only from main, universe and multiverse
<jnthnjng> kiko: thanks.  Is there any plan to allow backports in the future, or not?
<kiko> jnthnjng, there's a plan to allow depending on other archives, yes.
<jnthnjng> ok, cool.  Thanks.
<pwnguin> do build depends often make it into -backports?
<jnthnjng> pwnguin: good point.  I was thinking about backporting git-buildpackage which has a dependency on a git from feisty backports, but it's not a build-dep now that I think about it.
<pwnguin> i think you CAN build dep on other packages in your ppa
<kiko> right -- only in your own PPA.
<jnthnjng> yeah
<ubotu> New bug: #145746 in launchpad "Upgrade to zope 3.3.1" [High,Triaged]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/145746
<statik> EdwinGrubbs: hi
<EdwinGrubbs> statik: hey
<statik> EdwinGrubbs: oh sorry, wrong channel/server
<Arkard> Hi to everyone
<Arkard> is someone here?
<glatzor> hello how often are the ppa's upload queues refreshed?
<Arkard> Dunno, daily suppose
<glatzor> I uploaded a source package some hours ago and haven't yet recieved a failure or success note
<Arkard> i there any admin here, i need to ask him something
<kiko> glatzor, that's very unusual. 
<kiko> Arkard, I'm an admin!
<Arkard> Hi, how are you?
<Arkard> is just that i need some information
<kiko> I'm suffering from DNS timeouts. apart from that I'm okay.
<kiko> sure, ask away.
<Arkard> i want to be an Ambassador of Kubuntu in Nicaragua
<Arkard> how can i do that?
<kiko> Arkard, I'm curious: why do you think #launchpad is the right place to ask about that?
<Arkard> because i jsut registered in launchpad as part of the Ubuntu Ambassadors team
<glatzor> Arkard: you have to set up a l10n team for Nicaraua and the community council will make it an official team
<Arkard> what is a |10n?
<Arkard> can you help me glatzor?
<Arkard> Sorry my bad English im not perfect T_T
<pwnguin> Arkard: l10n is "localization"
<kiko> Arkard, launchpad just hosts the team for kubuntu. we don't have anything to do with kubuntu's structure itself :)
<pwnguin> Arkard: it's translating strings and related work for a regional group of people
<Arkard> i see
<glatzor> Arkard: sorry, I meant loco team
<kiko> Riddell, where should Arkard ask about that?
<Arkard> yeah, all help is welcome :D
<glatzor> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoTeamHowto
<Arkard> let me see glatzor :D
<glatzor> kiko: could you check where my uploads ended? I uploaded a displayconfig-gtk 0.3 package into my ppa (glatzor) and the one of the displayconfig-gtk team
<Arkard> i really wish to be the oficial representant of Kubuntu in Nicaragua :D
<kiko> glatzor, not really. did your source package at least show up?
<glatzor> ppa.launchpad.net/glatzor does not even exist
<Arkard> glatzor, there is an Ubuntu team in Nicaragua, is there a problem?
<glatzor> Arkard: if you are not involved in yet, I would say yes :)
<Arkard> why?
<pwnguin> Arkard: there's already a team you can join...
<Arkard> but they are Ubuntu, and i want to cover exactly Kubuntu, will be that a Problem?
<pwnguin> you know, i havent thought about it, but id wager the LoCo teams cover both ubuntu and kubuntu interested people
<pwnguin> anyways, the most important thing to take from this is that launchpad is seperate from Ubuntu. there are more appropriate places to ask ubuntu related questions
<glatzor> kiko: who could help me with the ppa issue?
<kiko> glatzor, uhh, have you activated your PPA?
<glatzor> kiko: for sure
<glatzor> [my-ppa] 
<glatzor> fqdn = ppa.launchpad.net
<glatzor> method = ftp
<glatzor> incoming = ~glatzor/ubuntu/
<glatzor> login = anonymous
<glatzor> allow_unsigned_uploads = 0
<glatzor> this is my dput configuration
<kiko> that is strange.
<kiko> cprov-afk, any clue?
<kiko> glatzor, it's very likely that you are uploading a package with a broken .dsc or .changes file.
<kiko> and in broken I mean "non-conforming"
<kiko> glatzor, is your GPG key uploaded to launchpad? is it the same GPG key you used to sign your upload?
<kiko> glatzor, and are you sure? :)
<glatzor> kiko: ok, I am a fool. The gnupg key was outdated :/
<glatzor> thanks
<kiko> glatzor, the reason you don't get email is that we have no way of knowing what your email address is from the missing key :)
<Kmos> OOPS-635EC168
<Kmos> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pbuilder
<Kmos> i'm getting an OOPS here
<kiko> Kmos, it's a bug.
<kiko> I'll report it 
<Kmos> kiko: ok, thx
<matsubara> it's already reported and fix committed
<matsubara> Kmos, kiko: bug 145493
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 145493 in soyuz "Source package page oopses on edge" [Critical,Fix committed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/145493 - Assigned to Mark Shuttleworth (sabdfl)
<kiko> ah
<Kmos> :-)
<Kmos> matsubara: thx
<matsubara> Kmos: np
<kiko> Kmos, doh.
<Kmos> kiko: ?
<cprov-afk> glatzor: is this your key "Signing key 1005044E895638A095B2B0047AE8E8AC934C22D5 not registered in launchpad." ?
<kiko> it was already reported!
<Kmos> kiko :)
<glatzor> cprov-afk: yes
<kiko> cprov-afk, could we perchance look the key up in the keyserver and if there is an email address, email the failure to that person?
<cprov-afk> kiko: in this case, it's not even in the keyserver. 
<cprov-afk> kiko: but we could.
<kiko> cprov-afk, is there anything in his upload that could suggest to us he owned it? maintainer, changed-by, etc?
<cprov-afk> kiko: don't know, nascentupload gives up very early when it can't verify the key using insecure policy
<kiko> yeah I know
<kiko> but it's annoying that we don't give /any/ feedback.
<kiko> cprov-afk, hmmm. could we get /poppy/ to look the key up and fail?
<kiko> i.e. the user's upload would fail if the key wasn't in LP.
<kiko> that way he'd get notified immediately.
<cprov-afk> kiko: FTP doesn't seem to be a good transport to implement it, don't you think ?
<glatzor> kiko: how long does an average build take before it gets performed?
<cprov-afk> kiko: I have to go now, I will call you tonight to chat more about this idea.
<cprov-afk> glatzor: not more than 20 minutes.
<kiko> cprov-out, can we not give failure to upload somehow in FTP?
<elmo> kiko: you can, but I'm not sure it's a good idea
<elmo> kiko: it's a massive change in API for rejections
<kiko> elmo, the problem is that we have no other way of giving the user feedback in the case of an invalid or unregistered key, AFAICS.
<elmo> kiko: and I'd bet large sums of money there'll be tools (dput, dupload, or higher level) not expecting it that'll break
<elmo> kiko: hmm
<kiko> elmo, do you have any ideas on how we could solve this? it's tricky
<kiko> the user signs a package and uploads it. I don't think there's anything in .changes or the .dsc which necessarily identifies him 
<elmo> maybe you're right - I don't see a good alternative in this one specific case
<kiko> (for instance, a sponsored upload)
<elmo> kiko: well the reason we don't mail them is because we can't trust an unsigned upload, so it's anti-abuse mechanism
<kiko> so the only thing we have going for us here is the key
<elmo> (at least that's why I did it that way in DAK)
<kiko> elmo, who could we mail even if we ignored the abuse angle? is it guaranteed that he'd be identified in one of the files?
<elmo> not reliably no, especially not for PPA
<pwnguin> the uploader?
<kiko> right.
<elmo> you could use the primary uid of the key, but that's problematic in other ways
<pwnguin> not with login=anonymous
<kiko> elmo, and in some cases the key doesn't even exist in a public keyserver
<kiko> elmo, and then the user comes in to #launchpad and says "waaah". at which point we have to look at the server logs. :)
<elmo> kiko: heh, right, so that makes it pretty useless
<kiko> elmo, crazy idea: maybe we could make part of the upload logs public?
<elmo> kiko: yeah, ok, so ignore me, unfortunately you're right, it's really the only way to deal with it
<elmo> kiko: that'll break as soon as we try to do security-in-soyuz
<elmo> or commercial PPAs or whatever.  well it'll either break or you'll need a second queue, and that's vulnerable to people getting the wrong queue and more overhead etc.
<kiko> elmo, well, just a log of failures, i.e. "Upload at 2009-02-01 12:11:22.011 UTC failed: public key XXX not found"
<elmo> kiko: oh, yeah, that'd be fine
<elmo> kiko: TBH, I think you'd be best off doing both
<kiko> I'm thinking how we'd do that, though
<elmo> then if users are using tools which are too fire and forget and don't expose the ftp error to them, they can still find out if they ask without the need for an admin
<kiko> elmo, well, how do we advertise the existence of said log? :)
<kiko> we'd still get support overhead I think
<elmo> PPA FAQ and other similar docs?
<kiko> yeah.
<kiko> yeah, I guess you're right.
<kiko> I'll file a pair of bugs. thanks for the discussion, elmo.
<ubotu> New bug: #145849 in soyuz "Uploads with unrecognized keys should be publically logged" [Medium,Triaged]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/145849
#launchpad 2007-09-28
<ubotu> New bug: #145853 in soyuz "Visibly reject FTP uploads done with unrecognized keys" [Low,Triaged]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/145853
<cprov> kiko, elmo: do you really think that the users will be able to track their own failures ? i doubt it.
<cprov> we can add the source IP  and the changesfile name (maybe content) if it helps.
<kiko> cprov, key-id, source IP and changesfile name would be okay
<cprov> kiko: or we can forward the log output to a mailing list (!) instead of keep it in the local mbox only
<kiko> cprov, hmmm, filtered, that would not be a bad idea. 
<kiko> cprov, do you know how the partner archive work is going?
<cprov> kiko: yes, this morning opera got uploaded and built
<cprov> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/gutsy/+source/opera
<kiko> cprov, wow! that's very awesome.
<kiko> cprov, I hear that we will need to make changes to the buildds?
<cprov> kiko: julian has a branch for you with last-minute fixes ...
<cprov> kiko: to the chroots, to be precise
<kiko> cprov, I haven't seen it -- does it need cherry-picking?
<cprov> kiko: but we haven't decided what exactly we will do.
<cprov> kiko: yes, let me check the wip queue
<ubotu> New bug: #145861 in malone ""Latest Bugs touched" should not list just created bugs" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/145861
<cprov> kiko: it's not there, but it contains fixes in the ogre-model code and the NoMoreAF indexes perms, IIRC
<kiko> yeah, I had assumed that
<cprov> kiko: apart from the chroot problem, we have to run gina from a.c.c to production
<cprov> kiko: shall I call you ?
<kiko> cprov, gina? not before gutsy, right?
<kiko> cprov, well, my phone is dead and I have no charger!
<cprov> kiko: where are you ?
<kiko> in bsb
<cprov> kiko: uhm ... well, not I believe fabio's plan is to get gutsy stuff from a.c.c into production via gina
<Daviey> Hey, are any LP dev's about who have access to the DB?
<cprov> kiko: but I might be mistaken :(
<kiko> cprov, AFAIK fabbione is going to upload straight to launchpad -- any reason why he wouldn't?
<kiko> cprov, anyway, you can do a dogfood gina run, I guess?
<cprov> kiko: no, a.c.c has no gutsy yet
<kiko> cprov, ah, then it's cool.
<kiko> Daviey, Tom's on leave, so I'm waiting for him to be back in office
<cprov> kiko: yes, gina on dogfood worked correctly, AFAIK
<Daviey> kiko: well won't matter after Sunday.. just a nuisance :(
<kiko> cprov, oh, beautiful to hear
<Daviey> Canonical employee's should not be allowed leave.. *fact*
<cprov> kiko: so, the only problem we have is the chroot 
<kiko> Daviey, I tried to tell him that
<Daviey> :)
<cprov> kiko: the feisty-release chroot is not able to install the new version of pkgbinarymangler (that supports partner componenent correctly) uploaded to feisty-updates 
<kiko> cprov, hmm, that's terrible
<kiko> but why?
<cprov> kiko: that's the inconsistency cause by the assumption that 'release' pockets will be opened in partner.
<cprov> archive 
<cprov> kiko: we keep partner consistent with the rest of soyuz and upload/import packages into post-release pocket of old distroseries.
<cprov> kiko: but I don
<cprov> 't think I have any chance in this battle :(
<kiko> I think we already lost that one
* cprov nods
<cprov> ok, let's deal with the side-effect
<cprov> release chroots have to be modified to allow installation of packages coming from post-release pockets (the extra deb lines are passed by the buildmaster when the job is dispatched)
<kiko> cprov, for /all/ archives, not just for partner? 
<kiko> that's evil
<cprov> kiko: a horrible hack that work is to simply override -release chroots with the respective -updates ... nobody will notice since after release the -release chroot is not used anymore
<ajmitch> cprov: did you mean for realplay to end up on feisty-changes? :)
<kiko> ajmitch, can I see that email?
<ajmitch> sure, where shall I bounce it to?
<cprov> ajmitch: no, it was a test from dogfood ... 
<cprov> ajmitch: it was a *mistake* on our side.
<ajmitch> cprov: that's what I hoped, rather than a bug
<cprov> kiko: chroot as shared between archives, they are categorized only by (arch, series, pocket) atm.
<cprov> ajmitch: I'm really sorry for that, it might have caused a huge confusion for the readers.
<cprov> kiko: errm, sorry,  s\as\are in my previous comment.
<ajmitch> I don't think too many people will worry a lot
<kiko> cprov, well, the pocket is different, right?
<cprov> kiko: no, component
<kiko> doh.
<kiko> right.
<kiko> do we need per-archive chroots, now?
<cprov> kiko: it sounds like the best solution
<cprov> it should fallback to the primary archive chroot on lookup failures ...
<cprov> would it be too nasty ?
<kiko> that sounds kinda evil
<ubotu> New bug: #145867 in malone "Oops for apt source package page" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/145867
<ubotu> New bug: #145868 in malone "bug indexing/searching unable to deal with 'cron.daily'" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/145868
<cprov> yeah, I noticed :(
<kiko> both dupes, gar.
<kiko> cprov, mpt: where are our approved bug tags listed?
<cprov> kiko: https://help.launchpad.net/TaggingLaunchpadBugs
<cprov> help  ?!? it took ages to find :(
<kiko> thanks
<cprov> kiko: before I forget, 10s socket timeouts on buildmaster gives us 1 failure per day
<cprov> kiko: each time a different builder ... there is no other explanation than network hiccups.
<kiko> cprov, okay, that's cool, though -- can we try 20s now?
<cprov> kiko: I will keep watching.
<kiko> I think we're close to seeing zero failures per day
<cprov> kiko: really ?
<cprov> kiko: okay, aiming for zero failures
<cprov> kiko: done, 20s
<cprov> kiko: I have to go, I will connect on IRC tomorrow morning as soon as get in the hotel. Call if you need.
<cprov> g'night all.
<jkakar> How do I create a team for my project in Launchpad?  There doesn't seem to be an obvious 'Create Team' action anywhere.
<stdin> jkakar: https://launchpad.net/people/+newteam   got that link from https://launchpad.net/people
<kiko> yeah.
<kiko> jkakar, where could we put that link, though?
<jkakar> kiko: I expected to find it on the launchpad.net/<project> page actions, visible only if I'm the owner of the Team I guess.
<jkakar> stdin: Thanks!
<kiko> jkakar, but teams are orthogonal to projects!
<jkakar> kiko: Well.  Yeah, I can see how that's true, but it also seems that often teams represent the people working on a project.
<jkakar> kiko: At least, the few teams I'm a part of work like that.  In fact, 'Create project team' would be nice on the project page.  It would create a team and set it as the maintainer for the project in one go.
<jkakar> I guess you can already do that from the 'Change maintainer' page, though.
<ubotu> New bug: #145894 in launchpad-bazaar ""Fault 8002" when pushing a branch to an unregistered project" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/145894
<kiko> jkakar, tricky, isn't it?
<mpt> Gooooooooooooooooooooood afternoon Launchpadders!
<lifeless> where!
<mpt> "Anyone Has a Fisherman" would be a great name for a band
<fabbione> kiko: ping?
<poolie> hi
<poolie> i'm again getting a page loading for many minutes, without an oops timeout
<poolie> this time it is https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/bzr/+bug/128456/nominations/1474/+editstatus
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 128456 in bzr "bzr+https is not a supported protocol" [Low,Triaged]  
* #launchpad  [freenode-info]  why register and identify? your IRC nick is how people know you. http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#nicksetup
<ubotu> New bug: #146193 in launchpad "wish: wikitext for homepage" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/146193
<ubotu> New bug: #146237 in launchpad "Not accepting additional spaces in string" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/146237
<iwj> BjornT: Thanks for your investigations about those lost mails.
<stub> kiko: It is not totally doom and gloom - if we had a catastrophic failure of the db on jubany right now we could recover - it would involve surgery on the database dumps and some consulting fees but the information is still there. But I still think the backups are a top priority.
<boggle> how can I see the diff between a revision in a branch and it's parent branch in LP?
<mwh> boggle: give me an example?
<boggle> mwh: for merge proposal, see https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~canonical-training/ubuntu-desktop-course/ubuntu-desktop-course-beta
<mwh> ah well
<mwh> i think the answer here is "wait a couple of releases"
<kiko> mwh, no, it's more like "pull the parent branch, merge your code into it and diff." :-/
<boggle> he he
<mwh> kiko: that hardly satisfies the "in LP" part
<mwh> but yes, for now that's what you need to do
<kiko> its parent branch is in LP! :)
<mwh> well
<mwh> when the code review thing is all done and dusted, this will be very slick and all lp based
<mwh> (though somehow i doubt we'll be able to duplicate meld in a web browser...)
<slytherin> Is it possible to request removal of a package form ppa?
<kiko> slytherin, not at the moment, but it will be for the next release. you can upload a new version and the old one gets automatically superseded and removed, though.
<slytherin> kiko: that is my problem, I choose wrong version for the old package I created. And now after I have created package by merging with debian package, old one supersedes new one. :-(
<slytherin> kiko: Anyway, I have hosted the package somewhere else for the moment.
<kiko> slytherin, maybe you could use an epoch. warning: I don't know what I am talkiing about.
<kiko> could he use an epoch?
<Hobbsee> kiko: yes, he could use an epoch
<kiko> thanks Hobbsee 
<Hobbsee> kiko: it's still somewhat evil, though
<Hobbsee> kiko: as in, makes it harder to merge each time, as debian's will always appear lower
<kiko> right, it will require some manual effort.
<Hobbsee> slytherin: what you could do is your-version+really-debian-version-etc
<Hobbsee> slytherin: which only makes you do it until upstream releases a new version, so that debian then supercedes your botched version.
<slytherin> Hobbsee: Ok. Thanks for the info. Anyway, I just wanted the latets package to be available somewhere for discussion among developers and google page creator came to rescue. :-D
* carlos -> lunch
* slytherin -> snacks
<Hobbsee> slytherin: ah, cool
<ubotu> New bug: #146289 in kde-i18n "Translations for non main packages are discarded" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/146289
<ubotu> New bug: #146302 in launchpad "Clean up ProductSeries naming properties" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/146302
<ubotu> New bug: #146334 in launchpad "Firefox decompresses tarballs from launchpad (dup-of: 102652)" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/146334
<AlexLatchford> Howdy guys, I am currently leaving for a few months. I wish to not be notified through email about bugs and code I am involved in, is there a way to do this without changing my default email address or not?
<intellectronica> AlexLatchford: i think your best bet is to filter the email
<bdmurray> Is there a +text for blueprints?
<kiko> bdmurray, nope, but you can ask for one
<bdmurray> kiko: okay, I recall using the "api" tag but what product should that bug be filed about?
<kiko> bdmurray, blueprint :)
<bdmurray> kiko: I was hoping for a cool code name like malone or . . .
<gnomefreak> does LP handle the shipit site?
<ubotu> New bug: #146384 in soyuz "germinate for hppa" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/146384
<kiko> gnomefreak, yes, it does.
<gnomefreak> kiko: ShipIt is currently closed while we prepare for the Ubuntu 7.04 (Feisty Fawn) release. We'll be back in a few days.  should read 7.10 gutsy gibbon maybe?
<kiko> gnomefreak, yeah, it's a bug, but I think salgado has it nailed :)
<gnomefreak> kiko: ok ty :)
<salgado> gnomefreak, kiko, yeah, it's fixed already. we only need a cherry pick
<gnomefreak> salgado: ty just figured it was a typo not so much a bug
<kiko> salgado, I approved, right?
<salgado> kiko, you did, but we'll have to wait for tom
<ubotu> New bug: #146382 in postgresql-8.2 "A tsvector can make database dumps unrestorable" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/146382
<ubotu> New bug: #146389 in blueprint "api for blueprint tracker" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/146389
<kiko> bright
<ubotu> New bug: #146441 in malone "Cancel a build queue in ppa" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/146441
<ubotu> New bug: #146444 in malone "remove file from PPA" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/146444
<stdin> is there something up with the PPA build system?: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/9553072/buildlog_ubuntu-gutsy-i386.kde-style-qtcurve_0.54.0-0%7Eppa1_CHROOTWAIT.txt.gz
<Daviey> Any LP admins around?
<Daviey> *urgent*
<Daviey> -- well semi
<MadMan2k> Hi, Ive got some questions regading PPA
<MadMan2k> are there some kind of stats available, so I can see which of my packages are popular?
<MadMan2k> and is there a way to create my own sections?
<MadMan2k> I want to backport xserver1.4 and seperate it from the less dangerous stuff
<Daviey> jamesh_: are you about?
<Daviey> or BjornT 
<bastian> hello
<jkakar_> Is there a way to specify the e-mail address that receives PPA-related notifications?  It's currently set to our team address which has our mailing list address as it's e-mail address.
<bastian> I have found a problem with eog but I'm not sure wether to call it a bug
<Daviey> bastian: raise it anyway and let others decide :)
<bastian> If I open an image with eog, which is in a folder together with a very big image, eog will fill up my ram, that ubuntu will freeze if I don't react quickly enough
<Daviey> how can that not be a bug?
<bastian> hmm, might be a feature that other images are loaded
<Daviey> "ubuntu will freeze" ... sounds like a bug
<soren> Anything that might cause your machine to freeze is a bug.
<soren> Badly implemented or not well thought out features can very easily constitute a bug.
<bastian> It "freezes", because my ram gets filled up
<soren> Just because it's easy to figure out why  it
<soren> 's breaking doesn't make it any less of a bug :)
<bastian> Is there a tutorial, how to report bugs correctly in launchpad?
<soren> No. Launchpad helps you a bit, though.
<Daviey> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ReportingBugs
<bastian> thx
<soren> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/eog/+filebug
<soren> Daviey: wow, I had no idea there was such a document. Go figure :)
<Daviey> soren: ftw -> http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&safe=off&q=launchpad+report+a+bug+wiki&btnG=Search&meta=
<Daviey> thumper: ping
<Daviey> jamesh_: ping
#launchpad 2007-09-29
<bigon> hi
<bigon> are buildd admin aware that ppa buildd failed because of Could not connect to archive.ubuntu.com:80 (91.189.89.8). - connect (113 No route to host) [IP: 91.189.89.8 80] 
<bigon> ?
<Daviey> elmo: are you a LP admin?
<reacocard> is PPA out of beta yet?
<mtaylor> one of my bzr branches on launchpad seems to be a bit borked - is there anybody around who can help? 
<Stickscoder> /quiy
<gnomefreak> is loggerhead private or was it packaged for ubuntu repos?
<ajmitch> there's a link to the source, no?
<gnomefreak> ajmitch: yep but is there a reason why it wasnt packaged for gutsy?
<ajmitch> because noone did it?
<gnomefreak> is it planned to be released to repos ever?
<ajmitch> maybe if someone chooses to package it, just like any piece of software
<gnomefreak> since it was branched i assumed that he would have packaged it
<ajmitch> who's 'he'?
<gnomefreak> that should be easy enough
<gnomefreak> tom haden or Michael hudson
<ajmitch> easy if you've done packaging
<gnomefreak> hadden
<gnomefreak> yeah i have
<ajmitch> then do it! :)
<gnomefreak> just wondered if there was a reason thats all
<gnomefreak> ajmitch: i might for hardy since gutsy is closed for most part
<ajmitch> because there's no formal release recently?
<ajmitch> at least not that I've seen
<gnomefreak> The current version is 1.1.1-0.13 (meaning 1.1.1, requiring bazaar 0.13), released on 24 Jan 2006 at revision 109.
<gnomefreak> could be a good reason
<ajmitch> most people don't care about packaging something if the code is still under development 
<gnomefreak> jan 20 2007 was latest in the news section atleast
<pwnguin> https://edge.launchpad.net/+builds/yellow/+history
<pwnguin> does failed to build different than depwait?
<pwnguin> yarg. IS ftb handled differently than depwait =/
<pwnguin> seems like all the debhelper packages are failing to install debhelper
<minghua> Hello, is there any words about mass build failures on all buildds of different arches?
<mpt> Gooooooooooooooooooooood afternoon Launchpadders!
<mpt> kiko, that's an excellent idea of Caroline Ford's
<mpt> to have translations of "If you want an Ubuntu CD, ...", in popular languages, on the mailing list page
<thumper> Daviey: pong but afk
<thumper> Daviey: leave a priv msg if you want an answer tonight
<Daviey> thumper: woo
<TomaszD> there's been some updates to displayconfig-gtk lately with some translation template updates, but these changes haven't been imported to Rosetta. I just want to make sure if there is in a pending template import for Rosetta. Can anyone check that please?
<TomaszD> I know it's Saturday, I'm gonna go partying just like you peeps, but seriously, I need to know :] 
<mpt> TomaszD, the answer is somewhere in <https://translations.edge.launchpad.net/+imports>
<mpt> Unfortunately that list is 101569 items long and not searchable
<mpt> carlos, danilos, and jtv are the people who can help you more
<TomaszD> mpt, thanks for the link, I just noticed I can't search through this, the filters are helpful but not much
<mpt> Yeah, I was just thinking that -- target is Gutsy, filetype is .pot, but even then ...
<mpt> 1   50  of 289 results
<mpt> hmm, that's only six pages
<TomaszD> I did and I manually searched (ctrl+f -> display) for it in needs review and approved
<TomaszD> but it's not there
<mpt> This problem is reported as bug 119602
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 119602 in rosetta "Poor feedback after project enters translation import queue" [High,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/119602 - Assigned to Carlos Perell Marn (carlos)
<TomaszD> I probably won't find pitti during the weekend so
<TomaszD> ah, subscribed to that bug
<danilos> TomaszD, mpt: if it's about Ubuntu package, it's also up on https://translations.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/gutsy/+source/displayconfig-gtk/+imports
<TomaszD> danilos, that's the first place I checked. Hmm, I've opened a bug about this omission.
<danilos> TomaszD: it says there that it was imported 17h ago
<TomaszD> danilos, what was imported? No .pot files there 
<TomaszD> ahh, this thing
<TomaszD> so theoretically this was a no-change upload, which contradicts the changelog
<TomaszD> will see
<danilos> TomaszD: was whatever was needed added to POTFILES.in and similar (if using intltool)
<ubotu> New bug: #146659 in restricted-manager "[Gutsy]  restricted manager isn't translated into Spanish, there's NOT a .mo file" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/146659
<TomaszD> danilos, the changelog says    * Extract translatable strings from xfailsafedialog
<danilos> TomaszD: and, a new package needs to be uploaded (that's when we pick new templates up)
<TomaszD> so I assumed that the template needed an updated
<TomaszD> *needed an update
<danilos> TomaszD: the package seems not to have been built yet (that's when we get the POTs)
<mpt> danilos, thanks, I didn't know such pages existed
<danilos> TomaszD: look at https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/gutsy/+source/displayconfig-gtk/0.3.1 where it says "Builds of: gutsy i386 - Needs building"
<TomaszD> danilos, so the gutsy-changes list is not a good indicator then :]  thanks for letting me know
<danilos> TomaszD: to be honest, I don't actually know for sure: soyuz gives us a callback, and that's when we do the upload, and I've never played with that bits of code :)
<TomaszD> :] 
<danilos> mpt: it's a recent addition (1.1.8 I believe), it's accessible through "See import queue" links on translation pages
<TomaszD> I guess you learn something new everyday, sometimes lp is still a mystery to me, but I'm getting the hang of its infrastructure slowly
<Hobbsee> who broke bugs-auto-closing-changleogs?
<Hobbsee> oh, hmm, it's sometimes working.
<ubotu> New bug: #146712 in rosetta "Filter options: accelerators (hotkeys)" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/146712
<ubotu> New bug: #146731 in gnome-screensaver "[Gutsy]  Translation problems with the unlock screen" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/146731
<Kopfgeldjaeger> is a launchpad beta testers admin here?
<Hobbsee> mrevell is not.
<Kopfgeldjaeger> hum? what do you mean? 
<Kopfgeldjaeger> aah... mrevell=admin, and mrevel is not here ;)
<Hobbsee> yes
<gnomefreak> if amd64 failed to build on PPA due to what looks like a soyaz/chroot issue do i still need to bump version and push again?
<Hobbsee> er, ask cprov
<gnomefreak> ty
<gnomefreak> once he comes around if he does since its weekend
<bigon> gnomefreak: there is a retry build link on the build log page
<gnomefreak> ah ty
<Hobbsee> gnomefreak: socket timeout, by any chance?
* Hobbsee wonders why we have so many live cd buildds - perhaps they werent changed back after the tribe release.
<gnomefreak> no failed to pull in depends for cdbs and debhelper and friends
<Hobbsee> gnomefreak: which package?
<Hobbsee> smplayer?  clipper?
<gnomefreak> https://edge.launchpad.net/~mozillateam/+archive/+build/400343
<gnomefreak> xulrunner 1.9
<Hobbsee> oh, they both hate life
<Hobbsee> gnomefreak: how did you know it ftbfs, out of interest?
<gnomefreak> go to PPA and look at failed builds :)
<Hobbsee> gnomefreak: where, though?
<Hobbsee> oh, i see.
<gnomefreak> Hobbsee: when i upload i check (or someone else does)
<Hobbsee> er, wait.
<gnomefreak> https://edge.launchpad.net/~mozillateam/+archive/+builds?build_text=&build_state=building
<Hobbsee> oh, it's there, right.
<gnomefreak> change current to failed to build :)
<Hobbsee> gnomefreak: that may fail again
<gnomefreak> dont say that :(
<gnomefreak> Hobbsee: its nothing with control file since that wasnt changed from mt3-mt4
<Hobbsee> gnomefreak: that i386 version probably wont build till monday
<gnomefreak> i had issues with grabbing depends (different errors same issue) easly fixedd though
<Hobbsee> ie, until infinity or elmo or someone fixes it.
<gnomefreak> is i386 down?
<gnomefreak> ah
<Hobbsee> gnomefreak: try to requeue it, but i dont think it'll take any extra builds
<gnomefreak> cant remove it
<Hobbsee> gnomefreak: https://edge.launchpad.net/+builds/samarium
<gnomefreak> they havent given us that right yet
<Hobbsee> NOT OK : Builder presenting continuously 'socket timeout' when downloading gutsy chroot. (AUTO)
<Hobbsee> yeah
<gnomefreak> oh crap
<Hobbsee> amd64 should work OK.
<Hobbsee> gnomefreak: this thing failed around ~15 hours ago?
<gnomefreak> yes
<gnomefreak> give or take
<Hobbsee> good.
<gnomefreak> but it never started i386
<gnomefreak> only 64
<Hobbsee> gnomefreak: because i386 had already decided it hated life before it got to your package.
<Hobbsee> whereas amd64 kept bailing, so stopped building for a while, then built some things sucessfully
<gnomefreak> thank god ::)
<Hobbsee> hehe :)
<Hobbsee> gnomefreak: you're lucky you arent using sejong or something.
<gnomefreak> why it broken too?
<Hobbsee> no, it appears to be workign at the moment.  it tends to hate life, and infinity, a lot more than the other buildds do, for some reason.
<Hobbsee> clearly you havent heard him cursing about it :P
<Hobbsee> https://edge.launchpad.net/+builds for reference
<gnomefreak> nope not yet
<funman> hi
<funman> i can't add my ssh key & gpg key to my profile
<funman> because they are already been added to an old profile i don't use anymore
<funman> the associated email address doesn't exist anymore
<funman> i had asked a while ago for a profile deletion, and did not care about it until recently, when i needed to use launchpad again
<funman> i would like to have the old profile deleted
<funman> the old profile is https://launchpad.net/~wavael , maybe you want me to sign something using the associated gpg key to prove it's me
<pochu> funman: why not merging it with your new account?
<pochu> https://launchpad.net/people/+requestmerge
<ubotu> New bug: #146855 in rosetta "Delete entries in Fail status after a month in the queue" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/146855
<funman> i didn't know about that, i'll look
<funman> You must have access to the e-mail address registered under the duplicated account.
<funman> the e-mail address doesn't exist anymore
<funman> should I use the http form request, or is it faster to ask for it here ?
<pochu> funman: I'd ask via lp. Since it's Saturday and lp admins may be away...
<pochu> answers.launchpad.net/launchpad <- write your request there :)
<mpt> funman, if you don't have access to the e-mail address any more, the https://launchpad.net/people/+requestmerge form won't help
<mpt> Use the address pochu gavew
<mpt> gave
<mpt> Though, that gives me an idea
<funman> Note: If you no longer have access to the duplicated account's email address, you may place a support request or contact the Launchpad users mailing list; Launchpad administrators will tend to your request.
<funman> i meant that one, 'support request'
<mpt> yes, use that one
<mpt> ... If the account you want has your GPG key
<funman> 'you want' mean the old one ?
<mpt> We should make it possible for you to claim that account by signing something with that GPG key
<funman> ok
<mpt> or something like that
<pochu> That makes sense
<mpt> That's not possible now, but it should be :-)
<funman> https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/14227 < that should do the trick
<ubotu> New bug: #146861 in launchpad "Allow claiming an account by signing/decrypting with the same OpenPGP key" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/146861
<RainCT> hi
<RainCT> just for the case you don't know, the staging server isn't working ([...]  Sorry, there was a problem connecting to the Launchpad server. [...] )
<gnomefreak> antone know when the buildds will be fixed (assuming monday since it is weekend)
<Daviey> Hey, any LP admins about?
<mtaylor> I need to get a borked bzr tree fixed on launchpad - should I just bug you guys in here, or do I need to file a support request on launchpad? 
<bebers> http://tubeimage.com/viewer.php?file=cpr097wo8xau0587v6z6.jpg
#launchpad 2007-09-30
<egx0r> Just pushed a new branch to a launchpad project. It can see it in the code section, but whenever I try to "Browse code", i get a 404 'files' not found. 
<egx0r> Is it a latency thing, or do I need to have a directory in my branch called 'files' or.. ?
<stgraber> egx0r: it's probably lag (you don't have to create a files dir), if it's not you'll have to ask again on Monday as it's weekend and most people (especially admin) aren't around
<egx0r> stgraber: Okay, thanks.
<HellKing> hi ppl!
<HellKing> Sorry to disturb,
<HellKing> But I'm a n00b and need some help with launchpad
<HellKing> can anyone tell me where to ask for it??
<mdke> has something changed in bugmail? the filtering I had in place seems to have broken
<mdke> oh, it's "edge" appearing in the url at the bottom of the emails, grrr
<Hobbsee> mdke: oh, you're filtering off that?  interesting.
<mdke> Hobbsee: yup
<Hobbsee> mdke: are you splitting LP bugmail from everything else, or splitting components of bugmail?
* Hobbsee is curious as to why you'd do it that way
<mdke> Hobbsee: I don't know a better way
<Hobbsee> mdke: https://help.launchpad.net/UsingMaloneEmail - i'd use the X-launchpad-headers, myself.
<Hobbsee> that's how i split my launchpad mail up into sections
<mdke> Hobbsee: afaik gmail can't filter on those headers
<mdke> maybe I'm wrong though, and there is a manual way of doing it
* mdke checks the page
<Hobbsee> mdke: oh.  i dont use gmail.
<Hobbsee> mdke: other suggestions would be to filter on stuff from bounces@c.c, or the reply-to of *@bugs.lp.net
* Hobbsee has serverside sieve filtering, which helps.
<pwnguin> so does gmail
<pwnguin> just not as nifty as procmail =/
<mdke> I think it's possible to give gmail individual headers, I just don't think it's documented properly
<pwnguin> theres lots of undocumented stuff
<pwnguin> label:unread
<Hobbsee> it amazes me how much spam gmail lets thru now
<pwnguin> i get maybe one a day, tops
<mdke> yes, I have noticed a lot of spam getting through lately, it's a pain
<pwnguin> for a while, russian spam was a problem
<pwnguin> then i posted on a japanese game writer's blog and got some more unreadable spam
* Hobbsee moved elsewhere, then got her gmail to autoforward - but i can still see what i get thru
<mdke> anyway, back to ploughing through the bugmail
<ubotu> New bug: #147147 in launchpad "ppa i386 building is currently down" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/147147
<elmargol> is samarium down?
<ubotu> New bug: #147178 in rosetta "Brasero's translation template shows template for GQView" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/147178
<ubotu> New bug: #147186 in rosetta "Download all translations for a source package" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/147186
<tristanb> Hi all
<tristanb> I uploaded a .pot file for my project last week, and it's in the import queue with status "needs review". Does this mean I have to do something, and if so what?
<elmargol> ppa is strange today. 64bit compilation is fast. 32bit takes forever
<elmargol> 4 hours pending
<bigon> elmargol: the i386 builder is currently down AFAIK
<elmargol> ok thx
<Kmos> elmo: can you check what happen with i386 ppa server?
<gnomefreak> since i386 buildd is down will it pull things it hasnt built or do we need to reupload them?
<Hobbsee> gnomefreak: they should do a mass give back, you shouldnt have to touch it.
<gnomefreak> thats what i was hoping for ty :)
<mayeco> https://answers.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/13338
<johnc4510> can someone give me some info on this meeting: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/node/1141   I am working on the next UWNewsletter and i need to know where the meeting is. Is it here in this channel?
<pochu> johnc4510: yes it is.
<johnc4510> pochu: ty
<johnc4510> :)
<pochu> thanks to you for the UWN :-)
<johnc4510> HEE HEE  anytime
<pochu> Is it OK to upload a backport to PPA with X.Y-1~feisty1, or should it be -1~ppa1, or any other thing?
<Kopfgeldjaeger> doko_: could you check my launchpad-beta-testers group participation? if you have time. my name is Nicolai Spohrer
<Kopfgeldjaeger> kiko / SteveA: are you online? :)
<pochu> Kopfgeldjaeger: doko isn't a lp admin, afaik.
<gnomefreak> pochu: if its just for PPA it doesnt matter much
<gnomefreak> i hope he is
<gnomefreak> hes been fixing LP
<pochu> gnomefreak: then I'll use ~feisty1, since that allows me to use ~edgy1 later :)
<Kopfgeldjaeger> pochu: not launchpad admin, but launchpad-beta-testers group admin, as far i can see
<pochu> Oh, is he?
<pochu> Kopfgeldjaeger: probably you wanna ask mrevell tomorrow... He takes care of that AFAIK
<gnomefreak> pochu: for the mozilla-team i use ~mt for personal (havent started yet) will be ~ppa i think
<Kopfgeldjaeger> hehe, yeah, im looking out for him since yesterday *g
<pochu> Kopfgeldjaeger: remember it's weekend ;)
<Kopfgeldjaeger> pochu: yes, i know :)
* pochu has finally used '-1~ppa+feisty1'
<pochu> I know it looks weird, but anyway...
<a7p_> hi everyone
<mpt_> Goooooooooooooooooooood morning Launchpadders!
<funman> :)
<pochu> mpt: morning? :p
<thumper> morning mppt
<thumper> mpt
<mpt> hi thumper
<thumper> early morning stutter
<mpt> or daylight saving stutter
* a7p_ wants to check out the current version of Azureus - but bzr co https://launchpad.net/azureus does not work
<pochu> a7p_: that's the project url, not a bzr repo :)
<thumper> a7p_: the project owner needs to set things up for that to work
<thumper> and unfortunately it is not well documented yet
<thumper> or even easily discovourable
<thumper> something that we plan to change soon
<a7p_> ah ... okay, and I was asking myself if I was too stupid ...
<pochu> mpt: any change you can take a look at bug 113965? :)
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 113965 in launchpad "Team mugshots page is untidy" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/113965
<a7p_> ... no branches for azureus ... :(
<a7p_> do bzr-repos exist for every ubuntu-package?
<pochu> a7p_: azureus seems to be developed at http://azureus.cvs.sourceforge.net/azureus/ ...
<pochu> a7p_: nope
<pochu> a7p_: also, lp.net/azureus isn't the ubuntu package. it is lp.net/ubuntu/+source/azureus
<mpt> pochu, I've already had a look at it, I even commented on it
<mpt> Oh, you're Emilio Pozuelo Monfort
<mpt> well
<mpt> Any LP developer can do it, but it's low priority compared with the "X doesn't work" sort of bugs
<pochu> That's reasonably.
<pochu> Does anybody know whether the i386 PPA builder is still down? I think I read it wasn't working...
<pochu> And also if the packages which were uploaded while it was down will be automatically built on it, or if we will need to reupload.
<ubotu> New bug: #147394 in blueprint "Can't sort blueprint listing" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/147394
<ubotu> New bug: #147404 in blueprint "Can't search blueprints by registrant" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/147404
<ubotu> New bug: #147407 in launchpad "Junk sounds too harsh" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/147407
<ubotu> New bug: #147428 in launchpad "Extremely recent times like "0 seconds ago" and "2 seconds ago" are silly" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/147428
<ubotu> New bug: #147438 in launchpad "Links in portlets get white background on mouseover" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/147438
#launchpad 2008-09-22
<Hobbsee> michelecs: yes, -U.
<Hobbsee> well, that'll only add -1 (or whatever)
<michelecs> Hobbsee: actually I tried, but what I got is a package named something-0.5ubuntu1ppa1ubuntu1
<Hobbsee> strange.
<Hobbsee> damn.  builldd.py appears to be broken again.
<michelecs> Hobbsee: do you mean build.py has a role in my problem?
<Hobbsee> michelecs: no
<michelecs> ah, ok
 * Hobbsee just tried to rescore builds, and noticed that it doesn't work.
<cjwatson> michelecs: certainly with current devscripts, 'dch -iU' won't ever append ubuntu1 to the end
<michelecs> cjwatson: mmm .... never tried the U option... it's not on the man page
<cjwatson> michelecs: but, if dch gets it wrong, just edit debian/changelog by hand (and rename the directory if necessary)
<cjwatson> man page> bug 179969
<michelecs> cjwatson: I'm already editing by hand, but you know, using just script would be much cooler
<cjwatson> sure
<cjwatson> use -U
<michelecs> Yes! It works! Thanks cjwatson... Why this option is not on the debchange man page?
<cjwatson> it's a bug, see above
<cjwatson> it's mentioned in dch --help at least
<michelecs> Thanks cjwatson, this will really help me to sleep better
<ajmorris> hello, i was just wondering about the status of launchpad mailing lists, for ubuntu related teams. Originally i got denied for my request of an ubuntu related team, however, i have heard that ubuntu related teams can now get launchpad mailing lists?
<RAOF> Why do people trawl launchpad sticking random tags on bugs?  Grr.
<RAOF> This random gripe brought to you by gnome-do bugs we know how to fix, and don't need "cpu" and "memory" tags attached to.
<Hobbsee> RAOF: they want karma.
<wgrant> Stupid power companies.
<RAOF> Does it nourish them, as the blood of innocents?
<wgrant> They tell us they're going to turn off the power, but don't.
<RAOF> And then turn it off at an inopportune time?
<wgrant> Probably.
<wgrant> But we had to have devices switched off just in case.
<highvoltage> hey launchpadders
 * wgrant is shocked.
<highvoltage> heh :)
<highvoltage> have you ever considered developing launchpad widgets that can be used in other websites and content management systems?
<highvoltage> I've created a brainstorm idea for it, so if you have any reasons for/or against it, please comment and vote.
<intellectronica> highvoltage: you can develop such widgets using the API
 * wgrant wouldn't really want to have $FOREIGN_WEBAPP to have a Launchpad cookie for him.
<intellectronica> highvoltage: also, if you want to make suggestions for LP development, the best thing to do is register a spec or file a bug on launchpad itself
<wgrant> It'll be particularly nasty when we can modify primary archives through the web UI.
<mwhudson> wgrant: i wouldn't grant "allow modification of all data" to a random website, to be sure :)
<highvoltage> intellectronica: ok
<highvoltage> wel, it would be nice for a few things, I think
<highvoltage> like, you could perhaps have a widget that lists the last bugs you worked on on your blog
<intellectronica> highvoltage: you already have feeds which you can try and use for doing something like that
<highvoltage> or show some alerts of things that someone might want to be aware of. so the widgets would be more informational than functional
<intellectronica> i think some users already do
<highvoltage> intellectronica: those use RSS atm though? or are there widget-kind like things that can be used?
<intellectronica> highvoltage: atom, no widgets
<highvoltage> ah
<Sp4rKy> hi
<Sp4rKy> https://launchpad.net/~harshitagrawalpress <=== this guy uses lp for spam purpose (https://bugs.launchpad.net/elbuntu/+bug/273067)
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 273067 in elbuntu "How to find a legal online movies site" [Undecided,New]
<wgrant> Sp4rKy: You could ask a question at https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad
<Sp4rKy> wgrant: yep, i just see that and did it
<MagicFab> Hi there
<MagicFab> how can I become an " Answers"  contact for a given team/project ?
<wgrant> MagicFab: https://answers.launchpad.net/someproject/+answer-contact
<MagicFab> wgrant, tx - wasn' t finding any direct links, I guees it' s not enable for this particular project (ubuntu-hp)
<wgrant> MagicFab: Not on http://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu-hp?
<wgrant> Apart from that project not existing...
<MagicFab> Actually it' s https://answers.edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-hp
<wgrant> That's a person/team, not a project.
<wgrant> Persons don't have questions asked against them.
<MagicFab> correct, I though answers was available to both
<wgrant> I don't think that makes sense.
<MagicFab> wgrant, oh I think it does :)
<wgrant> MagicFab: What is your use case?
<MagicFab> "how do I XXX with YYY model of HP ?"
<MagicFab> (as a team)
<wgrant> Hmmmmmm.
<MagicFab> Or maybe it' s the team that should be answer contact for an HP project
<wgrant> I think that would make sense.
<MagicFab> It' weird cause I can be an answer contact for other teams AND projects, just not this one.
<wgrant> MagicFab: Teams don't have answer contacts.
<rsc-> is there a way for me to automatically make build packages from the latest revision of my project's trunk?
<rsc-> is there a way for me to automatically make build packages from the latest revision of my project's trunk?
<glade88> barry: ping
<rockstar> rsc-, Do you keep the debian/ folder in your project's trunk?
<rockstar> rsc-, there is a bzr plugin for building packages called bzr-builddeb (https://edge.launchpad.net/bzr-builddeb)
<barry> glade88: otp. what's up?
<glade88> barry: I had a general question.. and since it was regarding launchpad, i'm telling you :)
<glade88> while adding branding images to a launcpad team, we need 3 images..
<glade88> one 192x192, one 64x64 and one 14x14
<glade88> whats the use of 64x64.. its showed up nowhere in the new launchpad.. (which used to come up in the older one beside the heading of the team page)
<glade88> sorry.. bad english :/
<rsc-> rockstar, what about being able to have the latest source package (from trunk) for download on my Launchpad project's homepage?
<rockstar> rsc-, there are the PPAs.  A few of my projects do something similar.
<rsc-> :( sigh, okay.
<jcastro> barry: ok, the only other group with a previously-declined list that I wanted to approve was ~64-bit
<rsc-> how can i delete a release?
<rsc-> i made a few typos on the version numbers.
<rsc-> https://launchpad.net/dusttheme/trunk/0.1.20090922
<barry> glade88: that's a good question, i don't remember.  i know it was used at one point though
<barry> jcastro: i just purged the list for ~64-bit.  they should be able to re-request it now
<glade88> right.. and it isnt used anymore since now there's this tab like thing at the top which has the 14x14 icon. so shouldn't the entry for the 64x64 icon be removed?
<barry> jcastro: while i have you here have you looked at +mailinglists recently?  i don't know what to do with those 5 lists
<barry> glade88: seems reasonable to me.  can you open a bug report on that?
<glade88> ya, sure
<jcastro> barry: the ones that are sitting there are because I've sent them a mail asking for clarification and have not gotten a response yet.
<jcastro> barry: usually I give it a bit, then I decline, then they send an angry mail, repeat.
<barry> jcastro: sounds perfect :)
<barry> glade88: thanks
<glade88> :)
<barry> jcastro: i know yastwitt's been there for a long time.  maybe we should decline it?
<jcastro> yeah I got no response and have no clue what it is
<barry> me neither.  okay, i'm going to decline it
<jcastro> delhi should have a lists.ubuntu.com list real soon now.
<jcastro> tagalog is waiting for response, and that colombia one is new, so I will mail them
<barry> jcastro: thanks
<glade88> barry: should I subscribe you to the bug?
<barry> glade88: sure
<glade88> okay . thx
<tgm4883_laptop> Is there some reason that project bugs won't expire, even though the project is setup to have them expire?
<tgm4883_laptop> for instance, !bug 151612
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 151612 in mythbuntu "Remote not supported" [Wishlist,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/151612
<LaserJock> Rinchen: ping?
<Rinchen> LaserJock!
<Rinchen> this must be the ping for the products
<LaserJock> yep
<LaserJock> Rinchen: so I just wanted to make sure we're all clear
<Rinchen> ok, I have the question pulled up.  Just need those urls inside the question
<Rinchen> as long as the ownership items are ok, I can make the change
<LaserJock> Rinchen: how does ownership get affected?
<LaserJock> Rinchen: will be just blow away the existing matplotlib project?
<Rinchen> LaserJock, I haven't looked at who the owner is today.  If it's registry, for example, then I can make the changes
<Rinchen> LaserJock, if it's not, I have to contact the owner for approval first
<LaserJock> Rinchen: it's not registry
<Rinchen> LaserJock, ok, thanks for the links.  I now need to contact those two folks
<glade88> hello.. does an administrator of a team has lesser privileges than its owner?
<LaserJock> Rinchen: alright, thanks for doing that. It should make future work by Ubuntu much better if we have the right project set up :-)
<LaserJock> glade88: I believe so yes
<LaserJock> glade88: an owner can change the owner of the team, for instance :-)
<dsargeant> hello,  can I request than an unused launchpad account that I assume was autocreated be deleted so that I can steal the user name (dsargeant)?  I tried to contact the user via the given email, but it bounced.
<glade88> LaserJock: except for ownership change privileges, an admin can do everything the owner can?
<glade88> like setting up the launchpad mail list as the team's email address?
<LaserJock> glade88: I think so yes
<glade88> oh.. so we have a bug heh :D
<LaserJock> glade88: I just looked at a team I'm admin-but-not-owner of and it looks like I can set branding, email address, etc.
<glade88> i'll post the bug report.. please see if you can reproduce it
<LaserJock> glade88: how do you mean?
<LaserJock> I'd think it'd be a bug otherwise personally
<glade88> ya it will be..
<glade88> LaserJock: if one is the admin but not owner of a team and he accesses https://edge.launchpad.net/~teamname/+mailinglist , he is not allowed in. But the owner is
<LaserJock> glade88:  that sort of make sense
<glade88> how come?
<LaserJock> well, that's a rather major change
<LaserJock> not one that gets easily reverted
<glade88> so thats the second thing an admin cannot do
<glade88> it does
<glade88> it can be reverted by an admin
<glade88> but set up by the owner
<glade88> thats strange
<LaserJock> not to me
<LaserJock> i.e. the owner has to set up a list, how a list is used once created is up to admins
<glade88> a min
<LaserJock> but I agree that it's king of on the line between owner and admin territory
<glade88> LaserJock: so this is normal behavior?
<LaserJock> glade88: what do you mean by "normal"? happens to everybody or is the intended behavior?
<glade88> oh btw, admins can apply for a mail list
<glade88> since when a team doesnt have one
<glade88> an admin can request for one
<glade88> but its only this specific page that doesnt open
<glade88> intended behavior
<LaserJock> I don't know about intended behavior as I'm  not a Launchpad developer
<glade88> okay. I'll set up a bug report. If it's normal, it could be marked invalid. Thanks :)
<Rinchen> dsargeant, sure. file an question on it and then ping me
<Rinchen> dsargeant, I'll verify the bound and move it away
<exarkun> How do I add announcements or downloads to a project?
<radix> exarkun: you need a series, and then you need to add a release to that series
<radix> then when you have those, if you visit the download page as a project admin (or something), you will see a link to upload a new file
<exarkun> Hm.  Ok, thanks.
<pro-rsoft> what does "deployment" as blueprint status mean?
<mars> pro-rsoft, for the projects that use it, it usually means that the feature is complete, and it is being rolled out to production/staging/whatever
<pro-rsoft> does it mean its already committed or its being integrated?
<mars> pro-rsoft, that depends on the project.
<pro-rsoft> okay
<pro-rsoft> thanks
<LaserJock> Rinchen: ping re: matplotlib
<Rinchen> go LaserJock
<LaserJock> Rinchen: John D Hunter responeded
<LaserJock> but there's confusion
<Rinchen> LaserJock, ok, keep the conversation going in the question ...
<Rinchen> LaserJock, state any confusion, etc...
<Rinchen> that way we have a log of it all
<LaserJock> well
<Rinchen> even if it's my confusion
<Rinchen> :-)
<LaserJock> the problem is how can LP handle the situation
<LaserJock> I was trying to not drop the "info" of python2.4-matplotlib, but I think we should use the matplotlib project
<LaserJock> perhaps we can just manually move info over
<Rinchen> LaserJock, is it a motu or ubuntu convention question or a  question of which project to use for ubuntu?
<LaserJock> the later sort of
<LaserJock> IMO, the python2.4-matplotlib project was created in error (general complaint with LP project registering there)
<LaserJock> but it's actually been used
<LaserJock> when in reality we *should* be using the "matplotlib" project, and it should be owned by John Hunter, IMO
<Rinchen> I see
<LaserJock> so I'd like to transfer the bugs and bzr code import from python2.4-matplotlib to matplotlib so that we don't lose it
<Rinchen> so, there's an issue with that
<LaserJock> the easiest way I saw to do it was to rename python2.4-matplotlib to matplotlib, the only question being, I guess, is who's the owner
<Rinchen> John may not accept it which puts the ubuntu package at risk
<LaserJock> ???
<LaserJock> it doesn't matter!
<LaserJock> we don't create separate projects for packaging
<LaserJock> that'd be retarded
<Rinchen> oh, so you mean file a bug against John's project as if it were upstream?
<Rinchen> the issue then is how to pass the bugs to his upstream bugtracker
<LaserJock> that's what it's for!
 * LaserJock calms down a bit
<LaserJock> I'm just in a bit of a hurry, sorry
<LaserJock> the projects are used to file bugs against upstreams
<LaserJock> currently the bugs are being filed against the wrong project, IMO
<LaserJock> and the vcs-import is hosted in the wrong project
<LaserJock> it should all go to matplotlib
<LaserJock> this is why I'm not very happy with Launchpad's "let's create a project for everything" push
<LaserJock> and doubly unhappy that packagers are supposed to create projects just to track bugs
<Rinchen> LaserJock, right. Ok, so the next move is for hector to agree and then I can get those moved over
 * Rinchen found a bug on the project screen.
<exarkun> Are download stats for files hosted on launchpad available anywhere?
<nand> Rinchen: hey! any news from the openid drupal plugin testing?
<Rinchen> nand, nothing more since the email you send to Stu
<nand> :s
<rgreening> hey, just wondering if I could get someone to help me merge rgreening with roderick.greening on launchpad. They are both me, but rgreening was an accident and created with wrong email (rgreening@gmail.com is not me - roderick.greening@gmail.com is me).
<Rinchen> rgreening, yes, if you could please create a question for that, that would be great
<Rinchen> rgreening, if it's not done by tomorrow, ping me
<rgreening> Rinchen: where do you want me to do this?
<rgreening> via LP?
<Rinchen> rgreening, yes please.
<Rinchen> assuming you can login of course
<rgreening> yes, via roderick-greening
<Rinchen> rgreening, https://answers.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad/+addquestion
<rgreening> Rinchen: #45990
<rgreening> ty
<Rinchen> thank rgreening.  I'm a little busy at the moment. If I don't get to it later today, our on call person tomorrow should
<Rinchen> or mthaddon or spm might if they free up
<rgreening> kk
<Rinchen> man, that mthaddon is fast.
<rgreening> lol
<rsc-> I started my launchpad project (maintained by a team) with a branch in ~myusername. now my teammates can't commit to the branch. how can i fix this?
<intellectronica> rsc-: why don't you just push the branch as the team?
<rsc-> how?
<rsc-> would I be right to just do a "bzr push lp:~dusttheme-dev/dusttheme/trunk" (dusttheme-dev as the team name) and under the web interface, do a "link to branch" to change it to that path?
<LarstiQ> rsc-: certainly yes to the bzr push lp:<team>/<project>/<branch>
<LarstiQ> rsc-: I don't know what 'link to branch' is about, so I'll refrain from commenting on that
<rsc-> woudl you guys recommend using Bazaar VCS for personal (one-person) projects?
<mwhudson> rsc-: definitely
<rsc-> mwhudson, if i do that (just working locally), how should i make branches?
<mwhudson> um, the usual ways?
<mwhudson> bzr push, bzr branch
<rsc-> how?
<rsc-> sorry im new to this :)
<mwhudson> bzr init to start
<rsc-> bzr init / bzr add / bzr commit
<rsc-> lets say i've done those, and made some changes, and i'm ready to "branch" out to another branch (for testing)
<mwhudson> rsc-: http://doc.bazaar-vcs.org/bzr.dev/en/mini-tutorial/index.html
<mwhudson> rsc-: bzr push ../testing will create a new branch
<rsc-> omg wow cool
<rsc-> sorry, i come from SVN, so I'm still used to the whole "big repo in the sky" thinking :P
<rsc-> can i "switch" branches?
<rsc-> if that makes sense...
<mwhudson> well, i know one sense in which you can :)
<rsc-> how?
<rsc-> aside from the obvious "cd ../testing" of course
<mwhudson> well, it requires a bit more set up
<mwhudson> bzr divides up the concepts of "working tree", "branch" and "repository"
<mwhudson> working tree == the files you edit, like svn
<mwhudson> branch = 'ordered sequence of revisions'
<mwhudson> repository = 'where data is stored'
<mwhudson> so what you can do is have a repo at project-repo
<rsc-> yeah, I can see how those terms can differ between svn/git/bzr/etc...
<mwhudson> branches at say project-repo/trunk
<mwhudson> project-repo/testing
<mwhudson> then a 'lightweight checkout' in say working
<mwhudson> then in the checkout you can say
<rsc-> i see
<mwhudson> bzr switch testing
<rsc-> basically bzr doesn't have much of a "repository" (that houses many branches/tags) in the SVN sense
<rsc-> because each branch is independent
<rsc-> would I be correct about that?
<exarkun> rsc-: a repository is an optimization
<rsc-> optimization?
<rsc-> btw, whats the difference between a checkout and a pull?
<exarkun> http://bazaar-vcs.org/CheckoutTutorial :)
<rsc-> okay
<rsc-> hmm
<rsc-> so if i make a branch of an LP project (bzr branch lp:xxxxx), and i make local commits (say, 10), then I do a push... will that make 10 commits to the branch on LP? or just 1?
<exarkun> 10
<rsc-> why is that/
<rsc-> what if i just want to do one commit?
<exarkun> because push is just a way to put the data somewhere else
<exarkun> it's not really right to say you make "10 commits" or "1 commit"
<exarkun> you already did the commits, they're over
<exarkun> you're adding 10 revisions
<exarkun> if you'd rather add 1 revision, then you probably want to merge instead
<rsc-> oops, revisions.
<rsc-> so does that mean when I do a "bzr merge lp:xxx", and my copy is more up-to-date, the lp:xxx branch will be the one to be udpated?
<exarkun> no, since 'bzr merge x' merges 'x' into the wc at your cwd
<rsc-> okay
<rsc-> so if I made 10 new revisions on my local branch, how can I update the remote branch with just one consolidated revision?
<exarkun> not sure what the best thing to do is.  you could branch the remote again, merge the first branch into the second, then commit the merge and push it back to remote
<exarkun> there might be a way to do the same thing in fewer steps.
<rsc-> i see
<rsc-> hmm.
<rsc-> whats the difference between "bzr update" and "bzr merge"?
<exarkun> tons
<rsc-> dont they do the same basic thing -- update your copy with the changes from the remote?
<beuno> merge can bring in changes from any branch
<beuno> update just updates your branch from it's parent
<rsc-> okay
<rsc-> but if I do a bzr merge [parent]
<rsc-> would that be functionally equivalent?
<beuno> nope
<beuno> that would make all merged revisions part of 1 in the mainline
<beuno> update makes your branch look exactly like the remote
<rsc-> oh.
<rsc-> discarding your changes.
<rsc-> your commited and uncommited changes
<rsc-> ...correct?
<beuno> I'm pretty sure you can't update a modified branch
<rsc-> erm, ok
<exarkun> it doesn't discard your commited changes, though.
<exarkun> it might result in a conflict that you have to resolve.
<beuno> if you update a branch, it's probably because it's a checkout
<rsc-> okay
<beuno> si, whatever you committed, it's parent laready has it
<beuno> (my typing is horrible today)
<beuno> the other use for update is to update the working tree, but that's a different workflow we really don't want to get into now  :)
<rsc-> so if i branch out from a remote branch (bzr branch lp:xxx), "bzr update" will not contact the remote branch..?
<beuno> nope
<rsc-> because it's a branch and not a checkout?
<beuno> you have to do: bzr pull
<beuno> yeap
<beuno> it's SVN-like
<beuno> (checkouts)
<rsc-> okay.
<rsc-> oh no, pull vs. checkout -- thats somethign else ive gotta read on
<beuno> rsc-, http://doc.bazaar-vcs.org/latest/en/mini-tutorial/index.html
<beuno> http://doc.bazaar-vcs.org/latest/
<beuno> has tons of valueable information
<rsc-> the mini guide doesn't mention anything about pulling or checking out
<rsc-> but ill check the main docs
<rsc-> can i make a diff patch from the changes of HEAD against HEAD-1?
<rsc-> (not sure about the terminology here but i hope htat puts the idea across)
<beuno> yeap
<beuno> bzr diff -r -2
<rsc-> cool
<LarstiQ> beuno: that would be against working tree, no?
<LarstiQ> rsc-: in case that matters, bzr diff -r -2..-1 or bzr diff -c -1
<LarstiQ> rsc-: or if you wanted it the other way around, -r -1..-2
<rsc-> hmm
<beuno> LarstiQ, it is. I'm assuming he has one
#launchpad 2008-09-23
<tgm4883_laptop> Is there some reason that project bugs won't expire, even though the project is setup to have them expire?  Like bug 151612
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 151612 in mythbuntu "Remote not supported" [Wishlist,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/151612
<IntuitiveNipple> Is there a problem with PPA package downloads with apt?
<beuno> IntuitiveNipple, there shouldn't be. What's the problem
<IntuitiveNipple> not sure, but had a couple of reports today of apt-get failing to fetch packages from my PPA, and I've just tried a --reinstall of one I have and it reported "Reinstallation of r5u870-dkms is not possible, it cannot be downloaded" - I can see and grab the packages manually though
<IntuitiveNipple> My PPA is "https://launchpad.net/~intuitivenipple/+archive"
<beuno> IntuitiveNipple, I've used PPAs a few times today, and haven't had any problems. Could be your ISP acting u[?
<beuno> *up
<IntuitiveNipple> not my downloads - other people reporting it from various parts of the world.
<beuno> oh, I see
<beuno> hm
<beuno> spm, is there anything in the logs about that ^ ?
<IntuitiveNipple> Originally I put it down to non-techie user error, but I'm talking to someone on IRC now who has followed my directions and it is failing for them
<beuno> IntuitiveNipple, is the problem with newly uploaded packages?
<IntuitiveNipple> I don't think so - r5u870-dkms has been there since mid-August
<IntuitiveNipple> let me go back to the user... It has just worked for me now
<beuno> IntuitiveNipple, sure, and we'll see if there's anything odd in the logs
<beuno> thanks
<IntuitiveNipple> thanks
<IntuitiveNipple> beuno: Here's a forum post that says the repository failed for another package in my PPA (unfortunately no details of what happened though): http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=5832299&postcount=2
<beuno> IntuitiveNipple, that doesn't look like a PPA problem, but a problem with the package
<IntuitiveNipple> hmmm
<IntuitiveNipple> not the installer bit - I know about that! - the comment at the very start "the repository didn't seem to work"
<beuno> IntuitiveNipple, ok. We'll see if the admins find anything odd
<IntuitiveNipple> thanks.
<IntuitiveNipple> This user is going to retry it in a few moments when a download has finished
<beuno> IntuitiveNipple, ok, be sure to get his IP number to see if we can track it down
<IntuitiveNipple> He's in Iraq - service personnel
<IntuitiveNipple> It seems to have been transient - he's got it too now
<beuno> ok
<beuno> if there's something major going on, we'll see it in the log analysis at the end of the day
<IntuitiveNipple> okay :)
<Peng_> Augh!
<Peng_> LP stopped mirroring my new bzr+http branch. :(
<Peng_> Revision not present in KnitVersionedFiles object.
<spiv> jml: ^
<Peng_> The message has already reverted to "will not mirror" even though it's making HTTP requests right now.
<Peng_> Ooh, done!
<Peng_> With bug 260219, is the fix deployed now?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 260219 in launchpad-bazaar "bzr+http branches will be completely remirrored every time the puller runs" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/260219
<mwhudson> Peng: no
<Peng_> mwhudson: But it should still successfully mirror, right?
<Peng_> mwhudson: When will it be?
<mwhudson> Peng_: good question
<Peng_> Which question is good, and are there any good answers? :(
<sits> Are there any launchpad admins about?
<sits> If so could they unsubscribe (or deactivate or investigate the following account):
<sits> https://launchpad.net/~teresadd1-0
<sits> (User is repeatedly saying they don't want emails)
<spm> sits: interesting problem - chasing
<persia> sits: That user is getting the mail from being a member of the Ubuntu Audio team.  It's probably better just to change group membership than to disable the user.
 * persia escalates to the relevant team admin, rather than needing an LP admin
<sits> persia: I know
<sits> persia: or rather - I can see that the user is part of the team
<sits> but I think the user REALLY wants out
<sits> I don't think emailing instructions how would be wise at this point
<persia> sits: Right.  It's having the team admin deactivate the user from the team, rather than having an LP admin deactive the user from LP.
<sits> I'm curious how the user was added to that group myself
<persia> It's an open team: just a click away.
<sits> oh sorry
<persia> sits: No issue.  I just belong to the school of the smaller hammer, carefully applied :)
<sits> persia: I can unsubscribe other people from open teams... what a novel concept
<sits> hmm no I can't
<persia> sits: Well, team admins can do it.  You can't, but you can raise awareness of an issue, and the team admins may take action.
<RAOF> sits: For what it's worth, I emailed instructions a couple of days ago when she appeared on a bug I was watching.
<persia> RAOF: Instructions to remove herself from the team?
<spm> What's also worth considering - the same user was commenting positively on bugs about a month ago
<sits> ok in that case I would definitely just unsubscribe the user
<RAOF> persia: Indeed.
<sits> it will save ugliness
<persia> Odd.  I wonder if the person behind the email address changed for some reason.
<RAOF> And an explaination of where the emails are coming from, too.
<sits> kid singed up with family email address?
<spm> persia: that's my thinking - looks like a vaguely generic address
<spm> sits: could be - but from the address used I'd be inclined to think not
<persia> It does look like a generic ISP address.
<persia> spm: No?  I don't see how the address might influence that: isn't the sort of address one gets when having a line connected?
<sits> ok thanks for your help. Hopefully the user will be unsubscribed and things will settle back down
<persia> the user is being deactivated from the team now.
<frk2> hi guys
<frk2> i got a problem with merging proposed merges
<jml> frk2: what's up?
<frk2> well i got a developer with his branch
<frk2> and when he proposes merging to trunk and i do mark as merged- nothing happens
<jml> frk2: as in, all that happens is the web page now says 'merged'?
<Odd_Bloke> frk2: I don't think Launchpad does the merging for you (yet).
<Odd_Bloke> thumper's working on that, I think.
<frk2> oh really?
<jml> right.
<jml> the current features are there for tracking
<frk2> well that explains everything
<Odd_Bloke> frk2: :D
<persia> Is the converse also being implemented: that if someone performs a manual merge (using bzr merge), LP will update the branch as merged?
<jml> yeah
<jml> probably that before the other :)
<persia> Cool.  I always lose track of the status of my branches, and have to schedule branch admin time.
<Odd_Bloke> jml: Do you know that that is not done?
<jml> Odd_Bloke: I bet one of those words is wrong.
<Odd_Bloke> s/that that/that the converse/
<jml> persia: yeah. we're talking about phasing out manual branch status management actually.
<jml> persia: although we haven't made firm decisions.
<Odd_Bloke> jml: What sort of timescale would that be on?
<jml> Odd_Bloke: I know that the converse is not done.
<frk2> jml, so i manually merge and then push to launchpad, thats the idea - correct? sorry im new to DVCSs :) subversion convert here :P
<jml> frk2: that's right.
<persia> jml: Well, I do like some of it.  It's nice to indicate whether something is a idea that one is playing with, something that is likely to be proposed for regular merges as the features come together, or an idea that no longer has value.
<jml> frk2: or you could use a tool like pqm.
<frk2> hmm whats pqm?
<jml> frk2: I'll let Odd_Bloke field that one :P
<persia> I especially like being able to mark branches "Experimental" when they are known to break stuff, to discourage merging.
<spm> jml: you wimp! :-P
<jml> persia: experimental is probably the one with the greatest value, imo
<Odd_Bloke> So, PQM is a robot that does merging for you.
<Odd_Bloke> Patch Queue Manager, BTW.
<jml> persia: 'abandoned' is generally fairly well represented by just 'not touched in a while'.
<persia> jml: Abandoned has a lot of value too, I think.  New/Development is tricky to determine, and Merged ought be done based on tree comparisons.
<Odd_Bloke> It can also do nice stuff like: 'merge', 'run tests', 'if tests successful, push to public location'.
<jml> persia: well 'new' should not be a status at all.
<jml> persia: we already have a hojillion ways of telling how recent a thing is :)
<Odd_Bloke> jml: I dunno, a lot of my PQM branches from over the summer haven't been touched in a while but are just waiting to be merged.
<jml> Odd_Bloke: :(
<frk2> so pqm submits to a pqm service?
<persia> jml: See, I disagree.  While it's a slightly different case, I've a package in Ubuntu that I last uploaded on 10th May 2007.  I haven't touched it since, because it works, and there's only one bug (related to the ogre model, and not easily soluable).  Just beacuse I've not touched it in 16 months doesn't mean I won't touch it tomorrow if someone files a bug.
<persia> Err.  I disagree about "Abandoned".  I agree about "New".
<jml> persia: ahh, that's an interesting case.
<jml> persia: out of curiosity, is the branch bound to a series?
<frk2> jml, i'll just merge manually :)
<persia> Also, sometimes I'll abandon something after only a couple days, because I've talked with others, and the path I was taking was entirely wrong.
<jml> frk2: probably easiest :)
<Odd_Bloke> frk2: You submit a branch to PQM.  It then merges that branch into your trunk and runs whatever integration tests you want (if any).  If these are successful, it pushes it to a public location.
<frk2> yeah, and i can test the code too
<persia> jml: I doubt it.  I'm a reluctant VCS user at best, so just occasionally push updates to others branches when they want to receive patches that way.
<Odd_Bloke> frk2: Having first set up a PQM instance somewhere.
<Odd_Bloke> jml: Does Launchpad allow there to be more than one branch which merges could be Merged into?
<jml> Odd_Bloke: yes.
<jml> Odd_Bloke: technically, any branch can be merged into any other branch.
<Odd_Bloke> jml: Sure, but you wouldn't want 'Merged' to be based on that.
<jml> Odd_Bloke: oh right.
<Odd_Bloke> Sorry, should have quoted first time 'round too.
<jml> Odd_Bloke: I'd probably say 'Merged' should mean 'merged into dev focus (aka trunk)' or 'merged into a series branch'
<jml> Odd_Bloke: alternatively, if it's been merged into all the branches for which it has merge proposals.
<jml> Odd_Bloke: not sure which of those approaches I like best.
<Odd_Bloke> jml: How would that fit the model of a project (like the kernel or, maybe, Django) where you have 'foo-dev-1', 'foo-dev-2' and 'foo-dev-3' which should be merged into 'foo-integration' which will eventually be merged into the dev focus?
<jml> persia: so, my theory wrt your "18 months untouched" branch had been that branches like that are generally already marked as special in some way
<frk2> thanks guys!!!! back to work!
<jml> Odd_Bloke: you can still mark them manually
<persia> jml: Yeah, that's not actually in VCS, but it would be considered trunk.
<jml> persia: right.
<Odd_Bloke> jml: Sorry, I'm still talking in terms of 'Merged' auto-detection.
<jml> Odd_Bloke: I don't think Launchpad should try guessing what the status should be in that case.
<Odd_Bloke> (in the context of the speculative mention of removing manual management)
<jml> Odd_Bloke: ahh
<persia> jml: So you assert that "Abandoned" is covered by time-since-last-push and not being trunk?  What about the case where one abandons quickly, as one has started down the wrong path?
<jml> persia: do you think there's much benefit in marking such a branch as Abandoned?
<jml> persia: to yourself or others?
<jml> Odd_Bloke: so, I think that "Merged" as a status is actually too ambiguous for precisely that reason
<Odd_Bloke> Yeah.
<jml> Odd_Bloke: it immediately raises the question "merged where?"
<persia> jml: Certainly, especially as more activity becomes seen as branches.  It removes it from my list of active branches, which helps me to sort out what I'm actually working on.  It also tells others that it's not worth looking there if they want to experiment with other's work-in-progress (not merging to trunk).
<Odd_Bloke> Yeah, perhaps a 'Done' status with something more to clarify how would work.
<frk2> jml, can i 'un-merge'
<frk2> or thats revert?
<Odd_Bloke> Which could be "Merged to x" or "Abandoned".
<jml> frk2: depends if you've committed already
<frk2> i have
<jml> frk2: if you haven't, 'bzr revert'. if you have, 'bzr uncommit'
<frk2> cool
<frk2> works :)
<frk2> bazaar kicks ass
<jml> frk2: and then possibly 'bzr revert' -- depending on what you want to do.
<jml> frk2: that it does :)
<jml> persia: why not just delete it?
<persia> jml: to avoid rewriting history?
 * persia doesn't generally like the concept of "delete".
<jml> persia: fair enough.
<jml> persia: this is interesting.
<persia> jml: I'm not suggesting to remove "delete", as it's useful when one accidentally pushes one's private data, but I don't think it ought be the default workflow.
<jml> *nod*
<persia> Also, just because I decide some idea isn't worth pursuing doesn't mean someone else won't want to do it.  Assuming some later interface that allows for easy searching of all branches (perhaps just hints to google codesearch), having abandoned branches show (clearly labeled as such) may even be a god thing towards reduced duplication of effort.
<jml> perhaps.
 * jml thinks
<jml> there definitely should be a way to say explicitly that a branch is uninteresting.
<jml> and if Launchpad also detects that a branch is uninteresting (no one has touched it, not trunk, not a release branch etc) then care needs to be taken to make sure it plays nice with explicit status stuff.
<jml> I sometimes wonder if experimental could be just as conveniently expressed with well-chosen names.
<persia> I don't think so, because something could stop being experimental, but you'd want to have a static branch name.
<jml> persia: well, no one should have been using it before then, right?
<jml> persia: it's experimental after all;)
<persia> jml: Except the other people with whom I'm collaborating to make it not so experimental.
<jml> persia: surely there's no better way to celebrate a successful experiment than a round of jovial renaming and cake?
<persia> Also, since one can subscribe to a branch, it becomes interesting to see status changes: consider a project leader who wants to know when various features might be ready to review for trunk.
<spiv> If there's active collaboration, then it's safe to say it's an "interesting" branch for the purposes of browsing branches via LP's UI.
<persia> Sure, but just being interesting doesn't mean that it's suitable for consideration by those using trunk.
<jml> persia: merge proposals cover that case, I think.
<spiv> Why would someone think it is?
<persia> jml: Only if you assume a push-only model.  What about several teams working on stuff who want to occasionally pull from each other to avoid collisions, yet none are ready for trunk?
<spiv> I'd tell the teams to keep separate branches for "ready" and "not ready" work.
<persia> Or just someone who's working on something, and wants to pull some (possibly incomplete) feature from someone else to avoid duplication of work, and won't be pushing to trunk until the feature on which they depend has gone?
<spiv> Which they probably will tend to do anyway (it's easier to work from a stable base).
<jml> persia: I think I've missed a link of your thoughts
<persia> OK.  I'll try again.  Imagine the following model:
<persia> There is some trunk.  There are *lots* of developers.  Some developers are working on things that are known to break trunk.
<persia> These are the three cases where "Experimental" vs. "Development" are useful:
<spiv> I think my basic assumption is that people *don't* merge unfamiliar branches without first finding out some things about them.
<persia> 1) A project leader wants to know when a given feature is ready for discussion, and can subscribe to the branch for that feature.
<persia> 2) One developer wants to work on something that depends on an experimental feature another developer is working on: their work shouldn't be considered for trunk until the feature on which they depend is no longer experimental
<persia> 3) A developer is working on something with a bound branch.  As they get closer to the goal, they want to be able to mark it as ready for others to test (but perhaps not ready for merge), without needing to branch it again.
<jml> persia: ok
<jml> persia: why don't merge proposals meet the cases described in 1 and 2?
<jml> (btw this is a very helpful discussion for me, thank you)
<persia> spiv: I question that assumption.  For Ubuntu maintenance, people often pull changes from other distros (Debian, Fedora, SuSE, Gentoo), and test them locally.  While there is often communication directly with upstream, or with Debian, it is considerably more rare for Fedora, SuSE, Gentoo, etc.  In these cases, it's mostly pulling a solution, testing it, and maybe applying it.
<persia> I don't see any reason why a sufficiently large group of developers on a sufficiently large project wouldn't do the same thing.
<spiv> persia: right, but in those cases you know something about the source.
<persia> It's generally more efficient to look for an existing solution than to create a new one, and once a team gets large enough (>Dunbar's number), and distributed enough, communications lag can cause issues.
<jml> I would hope that branch whiteboards would get used more often in those circumstances
<jml> although that's nearly orthogonal to explicit statuses.
<spiv> persia: it's "ah, debian has packaged a newer version" or "I want to synchronise my packaging to be up to date with what's happened in debian testing", or there's some other explicit reason *why* the merge was done.
<persia> spiv: Right.  Let's assume you trust me to do cool stuff.  Wouldn't it be handy if you could see which of my branches I thought were pretty good, which were not for general use, and which were not useful when you wanted to pick a patch from me?
<jml> I asked my question first guys :)
<persia> spiv: No.  Ignore Debian.  Consider Fedora, SuSE, Gentoo.  It's about getting patches to add features or fix bugs.
<persia> jml: I suppose I could use a whiteboard, but that takes longer than clicking a button, and doesn't summarise well in a long list.
<spiv> Right, so it's "get bug fixes made by Gentoo", then.  It still strikes me as a different case to finding a branch I know *nothing* about and just merging it.
<jml> <jml> persia: why don't merge proposals meet the cases described in 1 and 2?
<persia> spiv: That's not what I'm saying: I'm talking about merging from a branch where you don't have non-VCS communication with the branch author.  You might know the code, but given the volume of branches for a given author, you may want to only pick the good ones.
<spiv> persia: so finding out "pretty good" vs. "not for general use" vs. "not useful" doesn't seem like something a single "Experimental" status can communicate :)
<jml> persia, spiv: all of this is making me think that bzr's launchpad plugin needs to grow more features.
<persia> jml: for 1, because just because something is ready for testing doesn't mean it's ready for merge, especially for a project on which lots of other projects depend (e.g. gcc).  For 2) it's a pull merge.  The second developer needs to know when the first developer thinks it won't break stuff in order to guide timeline planning.
<persia> spiv: I want three statuses: "Experimental", "Development", "Abandoned".
<spiv> persia: ideally the fact that Fred's changes in branch X have been accepted into Gentoo would tell you that branch X is good, rather than hoping that Fred is keeping his statuses up to date.
<persia> I think "New" and "Merged" should be automatic, but don't want to lose the existing manual feature.
<spiv> Especially if you aren't in direct contact with Fred to check that they are.
<spiv> jml: I agree that more features for that plugin would be very good.  I'd love to do all my LP branch management from a command line.
<persia> spiv: Not really.  We might have a different model for that infrastructure than Gentoo, and Fred's patch could completely break it for Ubuntu.  The point is that I'll want to look at the set of patches from a likely OK source (e.g. Gentoo), even though I'm not in communication.  I don't expect that Gentoo will send merge requests.
<spiv> persia: If we can't find a better way than explicit statuses, then I agree they would be ok.  But I think we should be trying to find ways to make this stuff totally automatic and effort-free.
<persia> Let's assume for this that Gentoo is also using LP for VCS hosting.  I'll be looking at the Gentoo dev team branches.  It would be nice to see which ones are "Experimental" or "Abandoned" to reduce the search and review time.
<spiv> Right, but if Fred's patch for Gentoo breaks Ubuntu, Fred isn't going to know that or tag his branch with that info.
<spiv> So at some point you need to inspect the changes.  So the question is how much of that inspection effort can be automated.
<persia> spiv: I understand the desire for automation, but I think it's better not to dispose of useful features just because it's easier.  If you default to "Development", only people who use it would ever have to know it's there.
<persia> spiv: Yes, but if Fred's patch is expected to break Gentoo, it's not likely worth me reviewing it for Ubuntu.
<persia> (Yes, it might be a good patch for Ubuntu, but it's more likely to not be)
<spiv> Right.
<spiv> So that is an interesting use case.
<jml> persia: we should totally default to Development.
 * jml always thinks of that as 'vanilla'
<persia> jml: Absolutely.  That means that people who don't have a need for "Experimental" or "Abandoned" won't use them.
<spiv> I'd think that merge proposals would model that ok though -- if Fred's branch isn't proposed for merging into Gentoo, it probably isn't ready yet.
<spiv> i.e. if you're looking for interesting new work being done by Gentoo, start by browsing their merge proposals.
<spiv> jml: +1 for defaulting to Development :)
<persia> spiv: So rather than going to https://code.launchpad.net/foo-plugins to see the patches, you'd suggest I check each similar project, review which branches might be merge candidates, and build a list for review that way?  How is this easier?
<spiv> Well, more broadly speaking, view all branches proposed for merging into anything.
<persia> OK.  How do I sort the branches for e.g. Fedora (likely fairly safe) vs. the branches for e.g Arch (likely have some issue or they would have been requested for merge into Ubuntu)?
<spiv> Ideally LP should have a single page per project to show you that, if that would be useful.
<spiv> And I'd imagine that page would give you the usual nice table, with the clickable column headings that sort the table however you like.
 * jml hugs bzr-removable
<persia> I guess.  I have a single page per project that shows me a reasonably good overview now.  If there's a better page, I could see giving up the current page, but I don't want to give up the current page because a better page might be possible.
<spiv> If "is proposed for merging somewhere" signifies someting important, I don't see why that attribute couldn't be highlighted on the front page.
<spiv> In much the same way as "Status" is now.
<persia> spiv: I agree.  I think it needs significant review.  I'd prefer to either have parallel pages, or show both pieces of information for a while to see which works better.
<spiv> Except rather than "Status" being a simple list you manually fill out from a drop-down, it's an automatically derived thing that Launchpad shows based on what's actually happening to the branch.
<jml> ok. now I really really want to do some plugin hacking.
<persia> spiv: Just as a thought exercise, let's go through indication markers for each of the statuses with merge requests.
 * persia will have to leave in 10 minutes
<persia> spiv: How do we represent a developer indicating that the branch is useless, and should be ignored (Aboandoned)?
<spiv> That's basically my wish: that with all the information Launchpad has about a branch (changes in it, it getting merged into other branches, proposals to merge it, bugs linked to it, people viewing it, people downloading it, etc), that I shouldn't have to then manually tell Launchpad what its status is, except maybe in exceptional circumstances.
<persia> Oh, I agree with that.  I'm only talking about exceptional circumstances :)
<spiv> I'd be ok with an explicit Abandoned state, but I also wouldn't expect it to be used very often.
<persia> Right.  That matches my thoughts.
<persia> How do we represent the case that a branch may break things, and shouldn't be used as a basis for others work?
<spiv> Well, I really don't think there's much need to guard against that.
<jml> persia: perhaps I'm cynical, but isn't that the default case?
<spiv> Most breakages are really obvious.  "bzr merge; make" --> BOOM, compile error... "oh, ok, I guess that branch is busted".
<spiv> And again, I think merging from branches speculatively is pretty unusual.
<persia> jml: Well, when I'm working on something to target trunk soon, there's no need.  If I'm reimplmenting something in e.g. a different programming language, there's no expectation of merge *anytime* soon.
<spiv> Perhaps important enough that we need to think about how to make it smoother, but still unusual.
<spiv> I have enough trouble keeping up with branches I have reason to be interested in :)
<persia> spiv: I disagree.  I see it a lot in some teams: where team members track each others' branches, and grab interesting bits.  Mostly for teams that don't have commit to trunk, and want to collaborate on a merge proposal.
<spiv> Right, but that's not the same: that's watching a team's work.
<spiv> You have other information to help you out there; you're probably lurking on a relevant mailing list, for instance.
<persia> Heh.  Some of these folk need to be prodded to read ML traffic :)  This is the new immediate age: mail takes too long.
<spiv> It's not "hey there's a branch I've never seen and know nothing about, let's see if it makes my system explode."  I just don't understand how that would ever be productive :)
<spiv> "Hey there's a branch that touches feature X that I care about"... sure, I can see why you'd try that out.
<spiv> But not totally arbitrary, where the only thing you know about a branch is it's URL.
<persia> Oh.  I do it all the time with patches to fix bugs in Ubuntu.  If there's a bug that I want to fix, and I don't have a solution, I'll google for every bugtracker, patch, blog entry, etc. I can find, and try one or more patches to see if they work.
<persia> I can read the code, so I understand when it's roughly right, but I don't necessarily know the source.
<persia> s/source/source of the patch/
<jml> persia: so, if you came across one of these patches and saw the word "Experimental" on it, would that change your behaviour?
<persia> If I assume that LP imports or hosts all interesting branches everywhere, that becomes simpler, but status tagging is helpful.
<persia> jml: Yep.  I don't pull from Fedora development or Debian Experimental unless I have some assurance that it's the right solution.  My common initial trolling points are Fedora released and Debian unstable.
<jml> interesting.
<spiv> So, if the branch didn't come from the official upstream branch, it might not be good enough quality for inclusion even if it appears to fix the relevant bug.
<spiv> Or from some other blessed source.
<persia> spiv: Rather, it's about optimising my patch review path.  I start with things known to be more stable, and then look for things that might be less stable.
<spiv> So you're saying there are sources that are sometimes blessed and sometimes not, and you need them to be explicitly marked to know which is which?
<spiv> Ok.
<persia> If someone specifically indicates that something is known unstable (e.g. Debian Experimental), it's not likely a good place to start.
<spiv> So, how I'd imagine this would go, is rather than scanning all branches first,
<spiv> I'd scan the *release* branches of Debian, Fedora, etc first, to see if they have a fix.
 * jml has to go.
<spiv> And only if that search fails to find something would I look further afield.
<persia> Well, rather that I'd like to have some indication if someone things their branch isn't ready.  I'm not that hung up on "official" sources.
<jml> g'night gentlemen.
 * persia has to go too.  Let's continue another time.
<spiv> jml: g'night
<spiv> persia: so I think searching for a fix can be done better :)
<spiv> persia: let's continue another time :)
<spiv> persia: thanks for the patient discussion!
 * wgrant wonders if CVE stuff is ever going to be touched again, or if he'll end up working on it when LP does eventually become Free.
<jcastro> barry: one more team list to unmangle: ~ubuntuforums-unanswered
<barry> jcastro: done
<jcastro> thanks!
<elmo> ubuntuwhatnow?
<Hobbsee> elmo: long form of ubuntucrack.
<wgrant> That sounds about right.
<andrea-bs> mrevell: I think that this FAQ should be updated: https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+faq/39
 * mrevell looks
<mrevell> andrea-bs: Absolutely. I agree. I'll update that in the next few minutes. Thanks.
<NCommander> beuno_, hola
<RainCT> Hi. Where is the option to change a project name gone? :P
<beuno_> RainCT, there should be a yellow edit button next to the title
<RainCT> beuno: there's the "Edit details" but it only allows to change the "Display Name" and the "Title"
<RainCT> ie, not the name used in the URL
<RainCT> (or could it never be changed?)
<beuno> RainCT, you can't edit the name used in the URL
<beuno> you have to poke kiko-afk or Rinchen about it
<beuno> or, file question requesting it
<RainCT> ah, then I may have dreamed that there was an option for it :P
<RainCT> OK, thanks :)
<beuno> np  :)
<Rinchen> ouch
<Rinchen> someone poke?
<RainCT> Rinchen: Don't worry :). I wanted to change a provisional project name to another provisional name, but if that has to be done manually I'll wait until I have a real name for it :P
<Rinchen> RainCT, yes it's manual at the moment. But an easy manual
<RainCT> Anyway, don't worry about it for now :).
 * RainCT goes to bed, good night
<tuxxy__> im having trouble with my mailing lsit if anyones around?
<beuno> tuxxy__, sure, what seems to be the problem?
<tuxxy__> hi beuno, well it seems I cannot send out mail to my own mailing list, yet team members can send to it successfully, I have tried from two different e-mail providers also and every time no one receives the mails, not even me heh
<tuxxy__> I receive e-mails sent to the list by anyone else but I cannot send them
<tuxxy__> https://lists.launchpad.net/64-bit/
<tuxxy__> as you can see it is working for them but not the owner
#launchpad 2008-09-24
<beuno> tuxxy__, are you using hte email addresses registered in Launchpad?
<beuno> barry, are you around?
<tuxxy__> yes im using the correct ones, I receive all information just cannot send out information
<tuxxy__> all the other mailing lists are fine, just the one I own heh
<Rinchen> tuxxy__, what's your team name again?
<Rinchen> ~64-bit ?
<tuxxy__> https://lists.launchpad.net/64-bit/
<tuxxy__> my mail list is 64-bit@lists.launchpad.net
<Rinchen> k
<Rinchen> looking at your settings now
<Rinchen> ok tuxxy__, as far as I can see, your team settings and personal settings appear correct.
<Rinchen> I've asked someone to look at the mailing list machine just in case something is awry
<Rinchen> our mailing list expert has left for the day so I may need you to file a question with the issue
<Rinchen> note that you won't receive copies of the email you send, but it should show up in the log
<Rinchen> (because you're on gmail)
<tuxxy__> ok no problem, the mailing list originally got rejected but then activated once the bug 237210 got fixed
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 237210 in launchpad-foundations "should be a way to delete/disconnect a mailing list" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/237210
<tuxxy__> its been active for a few days now and my e-mails dont show up in log even if i send it from an e-mail account not associated with launchpad
<tuxxy__> I must have sent 15 now heh
<Rinchen> ok
<Rinchen> I just sent a test email
<Rinchen> and it arrived
<tuxxy__> yep it worked
<tuxxy__> yes, everyones does, except mine for some reason
<Rinchen> it just goes into a blackhole?  no bounce msg?
<tuxxy__> nothing
<tuxxy__> like it has been successful but then my members dont receive it and also its doesnt appear in logs
<Rinchen> k
<Rinchen> That sort of suggests to me that it is held for moderation
<Rinchen> and mthaddon just found an issue that, on the surface, appears to be related
<tuxxy__> no, its not moderated
<tuxxy__> and if i do click the moderate link no msgs appear
<Rinchen> and they won't
<tuxxy__> who is moderating it then heh
<Rinchen> as I understand it, we intercept inbound msgs and if we see they need to be moderated, they get put in the queue.
<Rinchen> it appears the process which check those and puts them in the queue might not be working
<tuxxy__> hmm well its been 2 or 3 days now, also why are mine not getting through but others mails are which are sent more recently
<Rinchen> tuxxy__, we made a change recently to the internals to something we thought was no longer being used.  The error that was found suggests we missed something.
<Rinchen> Let me queue this up for our mailing list guru to check in the morning.
<tuxxy__> ok no problem, you want me to make a report or anything
<Rinchen> tuxxy__, could please email the list again from  your google account?
<tuxxy__> ok
<Rinchen> and yes, tuxxy__ can you please file a bug report on it.  Please include the team name and what you've explained above
<Rinchen> I'll make sure it get's over to our mailing list guru in the morning
<Rinchen> inlcude that you talked to me in the bug report please
<Rinchen> and that I verified proper setup in LP
<Rinchen> and was able to send a test post
<tuxxy__> ok no problem, is this correct address https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/+filebug
<tuxxy__> I sent the e-mail also
<Rinchen> tuxxy__,  	 https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+filebug
<Rinchen> that will get you to filing against Launchpad itself
<Rinchen> thanks
<tuxxy__> Rinchen: https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/273790
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 273790 in launchpad "Mailing list errors, owner unable to send out information to team, can only receive inbound messages" [Undecided,New]
<Rinchen> tuxxy__, cheers for that.
<tuxxy__> no problem
<tuxxy__> =)
<tgm4883_laptop> Is there some reason that project bugs won't expire, even though the project is setup to have them expire?  Like bug 151612
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 151612 in mythbuntu "Remote not supported" [Wishlist,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/151612
<mkanat> How the eff do I add an additional affected branch to a bug?
<wgrant> mkanat: A project series?
<mkanat> Sure.
<wgrant> mkanat: "Nominate for release", under the status table.
<mkanat> Okay. And then what?
<mkanat> I'm the owner...
<wgrant> Select the series, and you're done.
<mkanat> It just says "Nominated for Bugzilla-3.0 by Max Kanat-Alexander"
<wgrant> Ah, you apparently don't have privileges...
<mkanat> I'm the project owner.
<wgrant> Is there a driver assigned?
<mkanat> There is now.
 * mkanat notes to self, "Don't make my bug-tracker work this way."
<wgrant> Can you point me to the project and bug so I can actually see how things are?
<wgrant> And how should it work, in your opinion?
<mkanat> wgrant: Well, that would be a little bit of helping the competition, wouldn't it? :-D No, I'd be happy to.
<mkanat> Just give me a second while I'm doing what I was doing.
<wgrant> The only relevant bugs I can see on your list seem to already have tasks against 3.0.
<mkanat> wgrant: I just did it.
<mkanat> wgrant: That is, I appointed my team the Driver.
<mkanat> wgrant: The main problem that I have with Launchpad is that things take a lot of explicit setup in order to get them to start working.
<mkanat> wgrant: For example, the Driver should be the project owner, if not set.
<wgrant> For example?
<wgrant> I would have thought that the owner should have that privilege, right. That sounds like a bug.
<mkanat> wgrant: Okay.
<wgrant> It doesn't make sense how it is now.
<mkanat> wgrant: When I was originally setting up the project, also, I felt a bit overwhelmed by all the things that I had to set up.
<mkanat> Yeah.
<wgrant> (I am not a Launchpad developer, I just file lots of bugs and complain a bit)
<mkanat> wgrant: I kind of just want a single page that says "what's the name of your project, list your branches, do you want to report bugs here?"
<mkanat> wgrant: Fair 'nuf. :-)
<mkanat> Launchpad has a bit of a problem that some of my apps have sometimes--that it exposes the UI based on how its backend objects are structured.
<wgrant> Hmm, it is a bit strange that the project creation form doesn't ask for which bits of Launchpad will be used
<mkanat> wgrant: Well, also that I first had to create a series and then assign a branch to it, and there's SO MUCH navigation on every page.
<mkanat> I'm sure it's handy for somebody who's very experienced with the system, but not so much for me.
<mkanat> It's not like a normal form, where there's just labels and values.
<beuno> mkanat, we're working on making that easier
<mkanat> Those I understand, there can be a lot of that on a page (even though ideally there shouldn't be).
<mkanat> beuno: Cool, cool. I figured you were. :-)
<beuno> a lot will happen a few months from now
<mkanat> If I had the same resources to throw at Bugzilla that you guys have to throw at Launchpad, it would be beautiful and amazing. :-)
<wgrant> beuno: So Launchpad developers have been saying for years...
<mkanat> Of course, Bugzilla also does a lot less. :-)
<mkanat> wgrant: Well, that's the nature of s/w development. :-)
<wgrant> It is.
<beuno> wgrant, well, I'm new here. So it's a new promise  :)
<wgrant> Woah.
<wgrant> This is an ugly page:
<wgrant> https://bugs.staging.launchpad.net/blahblahblah/+filebug
<wgrant> Three lovely big yellow alers.
<wgrant> *alerts
<beuno> it is icky
<mkanat> I'm less concerned about the aesthetics than the confusion for new users.
<beuno> mkanat, that's my focus, improving usability
<mkanat> beuno: Cool. :-)
<beuno> aesthetics is secondary
<beuno> focused on making worflows optimal
<mkanat> Great. :-)
<beuno> planning tons of user testing
<mkanat> One thing that's confusing to me is that Launchpad considers "Fix Committed" to be an open bug.
<beuno> yeah, because it hasn't been released
<wgrant> It is, to users.
<mkanat> Yeah, but not to me. :-)
<mkanat> And "List Open Bugs" is the only convenient bug browsing link that's on any page.
<wgrant> The search UI really needs a makeover.
<beuno> it does
<beuno> it's also one of the hardest things to do properly
<mkanat> You're telling me. :-)
<wgrant> beuno: I know.
<beuno> wgrant, so, we're picking our battles  :)
<wgrant> mkanat: Hm, I was able to target to a release fine without being the driver.
<wgrant> beuno: But that is perhaps the oldest battle in all of Launchpad.
<mkanat> wgrant: Yeah, so can another member of my team.
<mkanat> wgrant: Just I couldn't.
<wgrant> It hasn't been touched in years.
<wgrant> The pages in bug #272343 come close to being as ignored, and CVE pages similarly.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 272343 in launchpad-foundations "All six (yes, 6) views relating to upstream linking are broken/different/inconsistent/strange/outdated/unmaintained/[etc.]" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/272343
<wgrant> But there aren't many of that grade around Launchpad.
<beuno> wgrant, as I said, we have many battles to fight. Others seem to be more of a priority
<wgrant> This is a problem with proprietary software. If the maintainers don't feel that distributions or security or searching are important, they stagnate for years and torture us.
<wgrant> And there's not a thing we can do about it.
<beuno> wgrant, torture seems a bit extreme
<beuno> and, there are a lot of users to make happy
<beuno> so it's expectable for open or closed software
<beuno> to have unhappy users
<beuno> we still want to do our best with limited resources
<wgrant> Yes, but if it's open then $IGNORED_MINORITY can fix their pet issues.
<beuno> not always, no
<beuno> you have to understand the code
<beuno> understand the development procress
<wgrant> It's a lot easier to do that when it's possible.
<beuno> convonce others it's important
<beuno> etc etc etc
<beuno> yes
<beuno> Launchpad will be open next year
<beuno> we'll see how that changes things
<wgrant> Indeed.
<wgrant> But how open is open?
<NCommander> The question is will canonical accept code from non-employees
<beuno> yes they will
<wgrant> That is the big one, yes.
<NCommander> Or are we going to have a GCC/NetHack style catheridal development model
<beuno> no, code will be welcome
<wgrant> Is it open as in "oh look, here's our code, so we're not evil any more. run along now", or "come along and contribute"?
<wgrant> Aha.
<beuno> why would we throw away useful contributions?
<wgrant> Because I don't think anybody imagines that Launchpad would be opened for the sake of being open.
<NCommander> Or else it would already be opened
<tgm4883_laptop> something tells me that Canonical != Microsoft
<tgm4883_laptop> just a hunch though
<NCommander> tgm4883_laptop, Microsoft in its early days was very hacker friendly
 * tgm4883_laptop notes NCommander's idea of Canonical becoming more like MS.  Makes note to squash him.
 * NCommander is a firefighter, and thus not bothered by squashing
<NCommander> or splatting, fire, guts, gore
<NCommander> vomit (as long as its on my partner),
<NCommander> :-)
<tgm4883_laptop> silence infidel!
<mkanat> Opening the code just opens up the possibility for people to contribute.
<NCommander> I said *early* Microsoft
<mkanat> It doesn't mean that they'll make good contributions, or contribute at all, but it does make it possible to do so.
<NCommander> i.e., back when they shipped a UNIX
<NCommander> I'm more interested in running my own Launchpad for its archive tools for Nexenta.
<mkanat> I think the only place one's own Launchpad would make sense would be internally in organizations.
<mkanat> If it's open source stuff, might as well use the central one.
<NCommander> What about something like Debian, I don't think they'd want their development hosted by Canonical, but I could see them dumping dak for Soyuz
<beuno> don't underestimate the value of someone else hosting it, and taking care of all the infrastructure for you
<beuno> and, being able to cross-link to ther projects
<mkanat> Yeah, the hosting is helpful.
<NCommander> Some projects don't trust being hosted by a central authority. Or else every project would be on sourceforge, or FSF Savannah
<mkanat> NCommander: No, because those suck. :-)
<NCommander> ....
<wgrant> Yeah, SF is awful.
 * NCommander was a FSF Savannah admin
<NCommander> :-P
<NCommander> I agree at the moment Launchpad slaughters any SF based solution
<mkanat> NCommander: Yeah, but I'm talking about the UI, not the administration. :-)
 * NCommander is not going there
<NCommander> I'm too tempted
<mkanat> That's fine. :-)
<NCommander> Well, for better or worse, at least Savannah's UI remains constant(ish)
<NCommander> Something VA Linux should learn
 * NCommander notes the current SF interface can cause eyes to bleed
<mkanat> Hahahaha.
<mwhudson> it will be interesting to see what happens when launchpad gets open sourced, to say the least
<wgrant> mwhudson: Very much so.
<NCommander> I'd be willing to work to seperate Soyuz and publisher
<NCommander> so its possible to keep control and the fun stuff on launchpad.net
<NCommander> But projects like Nexenta or Baltix can handle the build infrastructure
<mwhudson> wgrant: I expect a certain amount of "aiee! my eyes!"
<NCommander> wgrant has immunity to eyes burning
<mwhudson> especially from people with interests like NCommander :-p
<wgrant> mwhudson: Can't be worse than some of the code I've had to work with.
<mwhudson> no, it's not so bad
<NCommander> Its an intrinsic from x86 real mode ASM programming
 * NCommander REALLY needs to stop playing nethack
<mwhudson> soyuz is a beast anyway you look at it though :)
<mkanat> Heh. :-)
<NCommander> mwhudson, I've committed code to dak
<NCommander> It can't be THAT bad
<wgrant> mwhudson: Considering what it does, it has to be.
<mwhudson> wgrant: right
<mkanat> I'd like to remind you all that I've been refactoring Bugzilla for years. And it can't be worse than Bugzilla 2.14. :-)
<mwhudson> NCommander: ah, you come pre-scarred then? :)
<NCommander> Bugzilla is proof for me that Perl is a write-only language
<mkanat> NCommander: You haven't seen it lately, though, I'm sure. :-)
<NCommander> mkanat, you can refactor crap, but its still crap
<NCommander> (although its object oriented crap)
<mkanat> NCommander: I've actually had quite a few people say to me, "The architecture is really nice now!"
<NCommander> Maybe its nicer now
<mkanat> Yeah, that'd be an understatement.
<NCommander> However, perl by definition has write only tendencies
<NCommander> Every language has the ability to create write only code
<NCommander> (with the possible exception of python)
<NCommander> perl and C have high chances of becoming write only
<NCommander> brainfrack is write only ;-)
<mkanat> Hahahaha, for sure.
<mkanat> And no, you can create write-only code in Python.
<NCommander> Well, if you hack Python to give it COME FROM
<mkanat> Just pick really bad names for all your variables.
 * NCommander notes he's touched COBOL
<mkanat> NCommander: Heh. :-)
<NCommander> You know, its not hard to know why my pain tolerances are so screwed
<NCommander> ALthough even my hack-o-meter explodes from time to time
<NCommander> gcl
<NCommander> source tarball is 15MB
<NCommander> The diff is 70MB
<NCommander> (uncompressed)
<NCommander> yeah
<NCommander> That is your eyes burning
<wgrant> I touched that once... ow.
<ajmitch> most of us have more sense than that
<NCommander> ajmitch, your talking to people who write real mode code.
<NCommander> Sense was undefined years ago
<ajmitch> so?
<NCommander> :-)
<NCommander> hey emgent
 * NCommander plays nethack
<emgent> heya :)
<NCommander> what's up emet
<NCommander> er emgent
<NCommander> emgent, still interested in WMubuntu?
<emgent> yep, but we have some problem in wmaker now
<emgent> we are waiting new infra
<NCommander> emgent, well, we can spin the meta-package with a PPA
<NCommander> Then its a matter of creating CDs
<emgent> sure we can
<emgent> but i think that first we should propose ubuntu-minimal ehehe
<NCommander> Use server as a base
<NCommander> And disable the server packages
<emgent> uhm yep, good idea for start
<emgent> anyway when i have time i will take a look, this isnt a good period now
<NCommander> heh
<NCommander> cya emgent
<emgent> i have some other priority-stuff to write for ubuntu
<emgent> hehe :)
<emgent> 5.12 am arghhhhh i should sleep
<emgent> see you later NCommander and thanks ;-)
<NCommander> cya emet
 * persia peers about to see if anyone feels like discussing workflows for branch merging, and automation of branch status values
 * NCommander shoots a hand up
 * mwhudson points persia at thumper 
 * NCommander gets a finger in an light socket and is electrocuted
 * NCommander dies
 * NCommander wants his possessions identified ;-)
<persia> mwhudson: OK.  jml and spiv were deeply engaged about 18 hours back: were those not the right people?
<mwhudson> persia: they're good too
<mwhudson> persia: but thumper is actually working on this stuff right now
<beuno> persia, we're working on that right now
<NCommander> persia, what would you like to see changed about the current workflow?
<beuno> what mwhudson said
<beuno> persia, we've got *very* good results up to now, and the process should be very simplified soon
<beuno> we've been doing workflow changes
<beuno> and UI changes
<persia> Actually, it's not so much about what to change, and how to change the automated detection of branch status, and looking at workflows for branch merging or patch hunting to ensure the end-state is desireable.
<beuno> persia, one of the changes we have will mark branches as merged automatically
<beuno> if they already where
<beuno> auto-merge-detection
<persia> beuno: Right.  It was mentioned that the process to manually set branch status would be lost once that landed, and I wanted to discuss only losing some of it.
 * persia prepares a pastebin with a summary of desired state for those not involved in the discussion ~18 hours back)
<beuno> persia, it won't loose any manual status changes
<beuno> just wil set it merged automatically
<beuno> it does the work for you
<beuno> but doesn't make automatic mandatory
<persia> beuno: Right, but we *should* lose some: when a branch is merged, it should go from "Development" to "Merged", and back to "Development" and the next unmerged push.
<beuno> persia, sure, that's for branches, not merge proposals
<beuno> and yes, that's exactly the idea
<beuno> (we've been working on merge proposals specifically these days)
<beuno> other parts of code will come after that, one of them being branch listings/statuses
<persia> Right.  It was suggested that as a result of that, it would be possible to automate all branch statuses.  I believe that it's not possible to automate "experimental" or "abandoned" as these represent the input of human opinion
<beuno> persia, do you think those statuses are useful?
<persia> beuno: Yes.
<beuno> persia, you would be able to set something as inactive
<beuno> which is basically abandoned
<beuno> but experimental would go
<persia> What does "inactive" mean?  Also, why change established nomenclature?
<beuno> active/inactive seem like better terms, don't they?
<persia> Anyway, http://paste.ubuntu.com/49919/ represents the set of statuses I'd like.
<persia> No.
<wgrant> Inactive sounds to me like it should be determined by time since last commit.
<lifeless> activity is observed
<beuno> that's a very tricky thing to get right
<persia> "Abandoned" carries the explicit implication that the developer no longer believes that the path pursued in the branch is useful.
<lifeless> persia: you can observe that something is abandoned too
<persia> wgrant: That's not very helpful.  What if I've a stable branch that hasn't gotten any updates in over a year because there are no bugs, and it is feature complete?
<persia> lifeless: How>
<persia> s/>/?/
<thumper> persia: branches are marked as stable by associating with a series
<persia> OK.  s/Trunk/Stable/ in my paste then :)
<lifeless> persia: no activity[no bug links, commits, merges-from, merges-to, commits-to, whiteboard, etc], not a release branch.
<beuno> persia, and showing merged branches is a bit pointless, so they should become inactive
<lifeless> beuno: I don't think they should become inactive
<lifeless> beuno: I think they should not be shown, but thats different
<persia> lifeless: And what if I want to abandon something after two days of work?  How can I distinguish this from someone who only codes on weekends?
<wgrant> persia: Right, so that state shouldn't mean "abandoned".
<beuno> lifeless, sure, I mean not shown. With the status "merged"
<persia> lifeless: Also, whiteboard doesn't show in the branch list, so is useless for branch discrimination purposes.
<wgrant> persia: Activity is surely objectively measured.
<wgrant> Abandonedness cannot me.
<wgrant> *be
<persia> wgrant: Precisely.  Which is why I want a manual flag for that.
<lifeless> persia: You challenged an assertion, I think I've shown it. Now you want to talk about whether it makes sense to 'only observe' but I didn't claim that that was sensible.
<persia> lifeless: fair :)
<lifeless> with this, as with most things, I think a tasteful melange of inference and explicit information gives the best results
<beuno> persia, your statuses make sense to me. I'll add that to the wiki so it's part of the discussion
<persia> beuno: Thanks.
<lifeless> specifically, I want to be able to correct lp when it infers it wrongly
<persia> Now, about "Experimental".
<lifeless> I'd like it to infer abandoned branches
<persia> Sometimes people work on stuff that *should not be merged* and *should not be considered for cherrypicking* because it is far too invasive.
<lifeless> and to notice when things are merged
<persia> I'd like to have this be another thing people can set on branches, so those who are looking to cherrypick stuff know not to go there.
<persia> lifeless: I'm fullly behind noticing when things merge, and when they diverge again.
<beuno> persia, in general, you should know better than go around merging into random branches. no matter what people say about them
<persia> inference of abandonment is harder.
<lifeless> persia: I think lp is in a good position (see the list of things I made above) to do a decent job
<persia> beuno: See, I disagree fundamentally with the style of development that your claim asserts.
<persia> If I know a body of code, and I'm bored, there's no good reason for me not to go peering around in other people's branches for cherrypicks.
<persia> Letting them flag things as "Experimental" tells me I probably don't want to look there.
<lifeless> I like having a 'bleeding' flag
<lifeless> I am not sure that in my head its in the same dimension as activity
<persia> Well, I mostly like "Experimental" because I'm conservative regarding nomenclature changes, but yes.
<persia> I'm not sure either of "Experimental" or "Abandoned" are about activity, but more about branch owner's opinion about the branch.
<persia> In the first case, it's stuff that is *very* new and probably kills kittens, and in the second case it represents a blind alley (and I'd rather see stuff abandoned than deleted, just to help build a better map of which alleys are blind)
<lifeless> persia: so in terms of choosing what branches are interesting to show
<lifeless> persia: a lack of discernable activity is a good default filter;
<persia> lifeless: Is it?  That assumes someone who pushes a branch has some attachment to the project to which the branch is associated.
<lifeless> persia: No it doesn't
<persia> Let's say someone branches locally to make something work better for them, but they aren't feeling particularly socially responsible.  Because someone pokes them on IRC, they push their branch to LP, and then let it rot.  How does this make the branch uninteresting without inspection?
<lifeless> persia: after 6 months with no comments, merges-to-, merges-from- (fuck it, read the list above)
<beuno> persia, I have a hard time believe people will use the experimental flag reasonably, or, at all. But it's going to be widely discussed before taking a decision, so I'm sure we'll go with the overall best change
<lifeless> persia: its not going to be easy to merge, to work with, and clearly the contents *have not been interesting to anyone so far*
<persia> beuno: We have an Experimental flag now.  It doesn't get used much, but I don't see how it's better to take it away.
<persia> lifeless: OK.  I can see that argument.  And given that it has rotted over time, it becomes increasingly hard to use for anything.
<beuno> persia, the only benefit I can see is that it simplifies things a bit. Less choices makes it easier for you to choose. But I'm not strongly set on this, especially if others feel strongly about keeping it
<lifeless> beuno: I'd rather tags than an experimental bit
<persia> beuno: Well, the only things I think are sensible choices are "Experimental" and "Abandoned".  We ought be able to infer all the rest of the available statuses from the branches directly.
<persia> lifeless: The main reason I like having it as a flag is so there is a standard text to show in the default listings.
<lifeless> persia: that implies a standard reasoning behind its use
<beuno> lifeless, persia, wouldn't a description of the branch be enough?  "this branch is experimental. It *will* kill your baby"
<persia> lifeless: Indeed it does.
<lifeless> persia: and I *don't* believe for a second that we all share that in this currently-limited group, let alone thousands of devs
<persia> beuno: I don't see either the description or the whiteboard in a standard branch listing.
<beuno> persia, right. And it won't be. But if you're interested in something, go to it's page, read about what youre going to do
<persia> lifeless: In the same manner as bug use of various bug statuses, if we can achieve some loose consensus and document it, we can create a common reasoning behind their use.
<lifeless> persia: anyhow, you could always have a stock text for the tag experimental
<beuno> plenty of people will have experimental branches as "new", which will make the status a bit pointless and random IMHO
<lifeless> persia: to date, bug statuses have failed to do that
<persia> lifeless: Well, given that we *still* don't have any way to differentiate interface based on tags in Malone, I'm not tempted by that.
<beuno> writing descriptions to what the rational behind that branch is makes more sense to me
<wgrant> Tags are useless as status indicators; you can't see them unless you dig deep into each bug, which is slow and painful.
<lifeless> fooding
<persia> beuno: But "New" will go away as it becomes time-based.
<lifeless> wgrant: don't conflate things :)
<wgrant> lifeless: What was I conflating?
<beuno> persia, well, "development"
<persia> beuno: Also, if I'm bored, and want to look at likely branches from which to cherrypick, I want a smaller set, not to have to check the bug page for *each* page.
<persia> beuno: Well, I'm anticipating that it's not hard to tell people in a given project to use "Experimental" for the kills kittens stuff.
<persia> Especially so if that matches the documentation presented by LP in the case where someone tries to edit the branch status.
<beuno> persia, I fully understand your use case. The thing is, our experience is that no one really uses it properly, and tends to confuse users
<beuno> hence the inclination to kill it
<persia> beuno: I use it properly.  I'm not confused.  I don't want my feature to go away :)
<beuno> but it's not a terrible thing to leave it around if there are enough use cases for it
<wgrant> Why are my users looking at the branch listing?
<beuno> persia, well, if you say it like that, it's hard to take it away from you...  ;)
<beuno> also, for your use case, *everybody* has to use it properly
<beuno> but, well, we'll see what comes out of it
<persia> beuno: Well, yes, but the documentation on LP seems to encourage proper use.  Generally everything that isn't "New" today is the result of someone trying to do it properly.
<beuno> I see your point for keeping it
<beuno> and I don't think removing it will solve much
<persia> If the standard workflow (New -> Development -> Merge Proposed -> Merged -> Stable) is automated, that's a big win.
<persia> I just fear that automation of most of it will cause that which cannot be automated to be dropped.
<beuno> so, at least from my perspective, I'm inclined to leave it
<persia> Cool!  Only about 7 billion people left to convert :)
<beuno> sure, change is scary. We should make it as less scary as possible
<persia> Note that I'm not overly fussed about implementation, as long as it's visible from the standard branch lists.  If it's easier to do it as tags (but can still be shown), that's fine too.
<beuno> persia, well, good news is, the more people you convince, the easier it should be. It's exponential!
<beuno> I really don't want more tags on LP just yet
<beuno> not until we use them properly on the UI
<persia> That's what I thought.  Mind you, this would be a good thing to migrate along with other stuff once that it addressed.
<beuno> tags and comments are getting a lot of love soon
<persia> Cool.  Not my personal highest priority, but something that's certainly suboptimal currently in a couple ways.
<wgrant> intellectronica: Do I have to steal some admin cookies, or will you mark bug #273886 as critical and get it cherrypicked voluntarily?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 273886 in malone "names with HTML special characters are displayed incorrectly in Subscribers list" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/273886
 * wgrant considers setting his display name to something that will automatically comment everybody's cookies onto the bug.
<intellectronica> wgrant: i am working on that bug right now. i can't myself decide on priority but i'm pretty sure that it will be marked critical and and get cherry picked into all production servers as soon as i'm done.
<wgrant> intellectronica: This is good news.
<popey> can an lp admin do something about At the Linux Plumbers Conference Thursday, Arjan van de Ven, Linux developer at Intel and author of PowerTOP, and Auke Kok, another Linux developer at Intel's Open Source Technology Center, demonstrated a Linux system booting in five seconds. The hardware was an Asus EEE PC, which has solid-state storage, and the two developers beat the five second mark with two software loads: one modified Fedora and one modified Mob
<popey> oops
<popey> sorry :)
<popey> https://answers.edge.launchpad.net/~kamion <- spammer in launchpad
<popey> https://answers.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nautilus/+question/2047 example
<Daviey> top find popey
<popey> :)
<laga> haha. colin watson? ;)
<Daviey> laga: he's a known spammer
<laga> yeah, but some answers seem legit?
<Daviey> laga: it is his account by the looks of it.. i reckon cjwatson is a closet spam king
<laga> oh, viagra spam. how original.
<cjwatson> it's arriving by the mail interface, not by authenticated posts
<Chiku> !rc
<ubottu> Gutsy - ï»¿Ubuntu 7.10 (Gutsy Gibbon) was the seventh release of Ubuntu. Upgrading to Gutsy:  https://help.ubuntu.com/community/GutsyUpgrades - Downloading: http://releases.ubuntu.com/7.10 - Features: http://www.ubuntu.com/getubuntu/releasenotes/710tour
<cjwatson> I've had a very large volume of bounces recently which indicate somebody is forging my from address on a large scale
<cjwatson> (not unusual in the modern Internet of course)
<popey> :(
<Daviey> :(
<popey> joe-job
<laga> you seem to have a very good explanation for everything, mister watson.
<cjwatson> exactly
<cjwatson> sod off :)
<laga> now tell me, how much are they paying you?
<laga> ;)
<cjwatson> I'd certainly appreciate an LP admin killing the spammish entries
<Daviey> The real issue is, can cjwatson get us a discount on little blue pills?
<cjwatson> FWIW that particular run ("Your internet access is going to get suspended") was so large that I had to filter my mail upstream to discard the bounces; I was getting so many of them that I couldn't download them over ADSL faster than they were arriving
<cjwatson> I got in excess of 10000 bounces in four hours or so
<popey> i had that happen to me some years ago, i also got quite a lot of hate mail as a result :(
<cjwatson> if I got any, I didn't see it - the only way I could catch enough of the bounces was to filter on the entire message content, so anything with that string in it I'll just never see
 * Daviey *assumed* the mail interface required PGP signing.. can't belive that isn't required!
<cjwatson> it's required for anything that changes state, like bug control (the " affects"-type syntax)
<cjwatson> not for ordinary contributions
<Daviey> on the plus side, it must have added lots of karma points :)
<popey> hehe
<cjwatson> doubt it made a huge dent, I have quite a bit karma from actual work ;-)
<cjwatson> +of
<Adri2000> spam: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lintian/+bug/36505/comments/11
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 36505 in lintian "Ubuntu Lintian shouldn't do the nmu checks" [Wishlist,Fix released]
<kiko> Adri2000, thanks.
<jwendell> hi, folks. From what place LP gets my picture to show inside google maps (when someone clicks on me)?
<mtaylor> jwendell: from your profile
<jwendell> mtaylor, am I supposed to insert another picture aside apart from the main one (192x192)?
<jwendell> because it's not working to me
<intellectronica> jwendell: i think there's a bug associated with it. you used to be able to upload a smaller version of your picture but you can't anymore
<intellectronica> salgado might know more about this
<salgado> jwendell, bug 262739
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 262739 in launchpad-foundations "Not possible to change a person's logo anymore" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/262739
<jwendell> ah ok, thanks
<intellectronica> wgrant: https://bugs.staging.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/wxmaxima/+bug/43150
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 43150 in wxmaxima "[SRU] maxima frontends fail to connect" [Medium,Fix released]
<liw> I deleted a package (system-cleaner) from my PPA an hour ago, so that I can upload a new .orig.tar.gz; I still can't, LP claims the package still exists in the archive, what's up?
<bigjools> liw: you can't rely on deletion requests to be able to re-upload the same source version with different contents
<bigjools> https://help.launchpad.net/Packaging/PPA#Deleting packages
<liw> bigjools, that has worked before
<liw> oh well, I'll not use the PPA for this, then
<liw> thanks
<bigjools> liw: maybe, this is a hole that's been plugged because....
<bigjools> ok
<bigjools> bye then
<thekorn> intellectronica et al.: searchTasks is  just awesome!
<intellectronica> thekorn: thanks. please feel free to bug me about it any time. it's already quite powerful, but i'm sure we can improve it even more
<thekorn> intellectronica, one thing I just found out is: the result does not behave like other collections, for example it has no `total_size` attribute
<intellectronica> thekorn: really?! i wouldn't have expected it to behave any differently. let me check
<thekorn> maybe I'm using it wrong, http://paste.ubuntu.com/50210/
<intellectronica> thekorn: that's interesting. would you mind filing a bug and subscribing me? i don't really understand why that is happening
<intellectronica> maybe leonardr would have an idea
<thekorn> sure
<leonardr> intellectronica, thekorn, searchtasks probably returns an object that the web service doesn't recognize as a collection, so it's just passed through
<thekorn> ah, ok
<thekorn> intellectronica, bad news: bug 270792 is not fixed for me, still get a 503 error an staging when trying to get a list of messages of bug 1 from staging :(
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 270792 in malone "HTTP Error 503: Service Unavailable when retrieving big collection of messages" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/270792
<ubottu> Error: Could not parse data returned by Launchpad: The read operation timed out (https://launchpad.net/bugs/1/+text)
<intellectronica> thekorn: :(
<thekorn> OOPS-998S71 if it helps
<ubottu> https://devpad.canonical.com/~jamesh/oops.cgi/998S71
<thekorn> leonardr, is this "result of searchTasks behaves not like a collection" a bug in launchpadlib or in launchpad itself
<leonardr> thekorn: almost certainly launchpad
<thekorn> ok, thanks
<leonardr> thekorn, can you paste me the launchpadlib code you wrote that got that error?
<thekorn> leonardr, I filed https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/malone/+bug/274074 with the code
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 274074 in malone "result of searchTasks does not behave like other collections" [Undecided,New]
<intellectronica> leonardr: see the bug i've just subscribed you to
<leonardr> thekorn, it looks like a launchpadlib problem after all
<leonardr> thekorn: you can workaround with int(bugs._wadl_resource.representation['total_size'])
<thekorn> leonardr, ah ok, thanks
<paolettopn> HI, goodnight at all,
<paolettopn> There is an LP admin can solve our problem ?
<paolettopn> ..
<laga> what problem do you have?
<paolettopn> ok
<paolettopn> look at https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/46106
<paolettopn> is so easy...
<laga> ah. i'm sure an launchpad admin will look at it
<paolettopn> Now we don't have a 'Source Code' Tag in our page
<paolettopn> yes...
<paolettopn> We are waiting for it...
<paolettopn> ok , thanks again...
<paolettopn> see you later..
<thekorn> intellectronica, are you around? one more searchTasks question, how can I search for all bugs against a package in a distribution? is package == component?
<Flimm> Why won't launchpad recognise my user when I commit?
<ahasenack> did some timeout change in launchpad recently? I can't list the bugs from a particular milestone anymore, I always get a timeout error
<Flimm> Found the answer: bzr whoami "Name <email@host.com>" solved it.
<intellectronica> thekorn: you should be able to just call searchTasks on the package. does that not work for you?
<thekorn> intellectronica, sorry, maybe I do not understand the datastructure, but how is a package presented in the API?
<thekorn> is it a project?
<thekorn> I don't see something like distibution["ubuntu"].package["vino"]
<mars> ahasenack, which page are you getting timeouts on?
<intellectronica> thekorn: ah, that's a good question. i always think of how you refer to these things using URLs (which is just like how you'd refer to them using the web interface). i'm not sure how you can get to it using the object model. let me find out
<thekorn> super, thanks
<ahasenack> mars: https://launchpad.net/landscape/+milestone/later
<lordz20> hello room
<mars> hi lordz20
<lordz20> Hi mars
<lordz20> hows your day
<mars> ahasenack, works for me?
<mars> lordz20, fine thanks
<ahasenack> mars: you probably can't see the bugs
<ahasenack> (Error ID: OOPS-998B3492)  is what I get
<ubottu> https://devpad.canonical.com/~jamesh/oops.cgi/998B3492
<mars> ahasenack, ah, hmm
<intellectronica> thekorn: the answer is that you can't get it like this, because distribution-source-packages aren't exported yet. i'll find out what's the plan - it shouldn't be difficult to get this out
<intellectronica> thekorn: until then, your only way to do that is by using the URL of the package
<thekorn> intellectronica, ok, can you give me an example of such an url?
<intellectronica> thekorn: https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/firefox
<thekorn> intellectronica, wow, really? I always thought the urls for the api have to look like    api.edge.launchpad.net/beta/...
<intellectronica> thekorn: yes, they do. sorry, i thought the only interesting bit is the stuff after the domain
<thekorn> intellectronica, ok, thanks, got it now ;) one other question: is it ok to tag new bugs related to the api in malone with "api" or should I leave them untaged
<intellectronica> thekorn: feel free to tag them with "api"
<thekorn> ok, thanks alot, and again: good work
<intellectronica> thekorn: cheers. and thanks for all the help testing this stuff!
#launchpad 2008-09-25
<Verterok> intellectronica: the searchTasks feature in launchpadlib looks gooood :), nice job!
<intellectronica> thanks, Verterok!
<wgrant> intellectronica: Good to see that issue was fixed so quickly. Thanks.
 * intellectronica wonders if the compliments always start that late
<intellectronica> i obviously go to sleep too early most nights :D
<wgrant> Heh.
<intellectronica> wgrant: thanks for the help testing it, b.t.w
<wgrant> intellectronica: Um, sure.
<intellectronica> and now ...
 * intellectronica --> zzz
<wgrant> Night.
<Peng_> jml: Ping?
<jml> Peng_: howdy
<Peng_> jml: Hi. :D
<jml> ('Peng: pong' would have been simply too much fun.)
<Peng_> :)
<Peng_> Hm
<Peng_> jml: So...I have a knit branch, lp:~mnordhoff/pytz/pytz-2008f. LP was finally able to mirror it over bzr+http, and then... it complains about a missing revision. Any idea?
<Peng_> "bzr check" reports a ghost and "1 revisions missing parents in ancestry", but the revision in question is present.
<jml> Peng_: well, the idea that's bouncing around in my head like a pinball is that it's a bzr bug.
<jml> Peng_: also, I've seen other cases where that error shows up when it shouldn't.
<Peng_> Huh.
<Peng_> Hmm, when did "AssertionError: <bzrlib.bzrdir.BzrDirMeta1 object at 0x95c4a0c> is not a RemoteBzrDir" happen? That's on one of my older branches that hasn't been mirrored in ages.
<Peng_> Oh, 2008-08-01.
<jml> yay logs :)
<jml> Peng_: can you request another mirror?
<Peng_> Yeah, I am.
<Peng_> Wait, another mirror of which branch?
<jml> the one with the AssertionError.
<Peng_> OK. Yeah, I am then.
<Peng_> It's going now.
<Peng_> Ooh, done.
<Peng_> It's complaining about the missing revision now too. (It's lp:~mnordhoff/pytz/pytz-2008e, the parent of the other branch.)
<Peng_> Hey, it was able to mirror one of my pack branches from another project. At least something works. :P
<Peng_> LP has no problem mirroring a pack copy of the branch that has the revision error.
<tgm4883_laptop> Is there something special I need to do to get the launchpad janitor to auto expire bugs in my project?
<beuno> tgm4883_laptop, you have to specify it in your project's details
<beuno> so, go to your projects overview page
<beuno> and click on "Change details"
<wgrant> Is that under bugs.lp.net yet?
<beuno> nope
 * wgrant imagines "X bugs can expire (!)"
<wgrant> With the (!) being the edit icon.
<beuno> sure, unless you really don't want them to
<beuno> you keep on seeing that anyway
<wgrant> Hm?
<beuno> if you don't want bugs to expire
<beuno> you would see that message all the time
<wgrant> You do already, don't you?
<beuno> do you?
 * beuno looks
<beuno> you do!
<Peng_> Heh, "This branch may be out of date, as Launchpad has not been able to access between 2008-06-30  and 2008-07-04."
<beuno> edit icon would be nice then  :)
<wgrant> beuno: Good, so I wasn't going crazy.
<beuno> wgrant, no, I am
<tgm4883_laptop> beuno, it is
<wgrant> Heh.
<tgm4883_laptop> beuno, that is set, yet some bugs are way old
<wgrant> tgm4883_laptop: Which is a bug that you think should have been expired?
<tgm4883_laptop> sec
<tgm4883_laptop> bug 151612
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 151612 in mythbuntu "Remote not supported" [Wishlist,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/151612
<tgm4883_laptop> for instance, that one
<tgm4883_laptop> we had one that was 262 days old that was marked for expiration, but someone marked it invalid
<Ursinha> hey danilo[home]__, you there?
<tgm4883_laptop> lp also lists 32 bugs that can expire
<wgrant> beuno: Hmm, I guess that wouldn't actually work.
<wgrant> It's not shown when there are no expirable bugs.
<wgrant> Which happens both when there are no incomplete bugs untouched for 60 days, or if expiry is turned on.
<wgrant> But it seems that expiry doesn't work too well.
<beuno> BjornT, ping?  ^
<Peng_> How many branches are mirrored at once?
<thumper> Peng_: up to 10
 * thumper thinks
<thumper> maybe 4
<thumper> can't remember
<mwhudson> 4
<jml> you know what would be good?
<jml> metrics.
<jml> lots of metrics.
<Peng_> I just got it t ouse 8.72 Mbit of bandwidth. :)
<Peng_> to use*
<Peng_> Is it supposed to be able to mirror rich-root-pack branches?
<mwhudson> yes
<Peng_> Well it can't.
<Peng_> "KnitPackRepository('lp-mirrored:///~mnordhoff/bzr-svn/new-style-classes/.bzr/repository') is not compatible with ..."
<krokosjablik> Hello, I cannot change the project name myself, is it right? I have asked for this in Launchpad answers just now, is it the right place for such requests? Thanks.
<wgrant> krokosjablik: That's the right place.
<krokosjablik> wgrant: Many thanks!
<jjesse> good morning, i'm sure you all know about it already, but logging into launchpad this morning w/ konqueror on intrepid i get a message about the google map api key being rejected?
<mars> salgado, ^
<jjesse> salgado: i get the error message on both edge and launchpad
<salgado> jjesse, bug 271613
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 271613 in launchpad-foundations "Google Maps API Key Error" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/271613
<jjesse> ah ok, i wanted to make sure someone hadn't already reported it before i filed something
<pro-rsoft> Hey, when I click Propose as goal it immediately gets marked as "Accepted for x.x.x" instead of "Proposed". How to mark something as Proposed but not Accepted?
<pro-rsoft> or isnt that possible?
<Hobbsee> pro-rsoft: it's not possible, as far as I know - but should you be able to set those anyway?
<pro-rsoft> should I register an account that is not admin and propose it there? is that the only way?
<Hobbsee> i'd sya so
<pro-rsoft> hmm.
<jmota> ï»¿ï»¿ ï»¿can anyone tell me why the icons in the top pannel(date, end session, sound...) sometimes get out of the place when i iniciate ubuntu?
<andrea-bs> Hello! https://launchpad.net/launchpad says "See https://edge.launchpad.net/launchpad-project for details..."
<andrea-bs> the problem is that the url includes "edge"
<tgm4883_laptop> andrea-bs, that would be for launchpad beta testers
<andrea-bs> tgm4883_laptop: I don't think so: I see non-edge links on https://launchpad.net/launchpad-project
<tgm4883_laptop> andrea-bs, go to https://launchpad.net/ and turn off redirection
<andrea-bs> tgm4883_laptop: the "edge" still be there
<tgm4883_laptop> andrea-bs, if you turn off redirection, then go to https://launchpad.net/launchpad-project it should be fine
<tgm4883_laptop> that will only last for 2 hours though, but this is just to prove that it's fine anyway
<tgm4883_laptop> you could also log out and go to https://launchpad.net/launchpad-project
<andrea-bs> tgm4883_laptop: sorry, I mean: the link in the page https://launchpad.net/launchpad include the "edge"; this is OK for betatesters, but not for other people
<andrea-bs> -See https://edge.launchpad.net/launchpad-project for details on the other components that make up the project.
<andrea-bs> +See https://launchpad.net/launchpad-project for details on the other components that make up the project.
<rockstar> andrea-bs, why is not good for other people?
<tgm4883_laptop> andrea-bs, the edge site only shows up for betatesters
<tgm4883_laptop> regular users don't get the redirection
<andrea-bs> rockstar: for example if they go to edge.lp.net/launchpad-project and click on "report a bug" they need to login an another time
<rockstar> I mean, I see what you're saying, but it's not a huge issue.
<andrea-bs> rockstar: sure
<tgm4883_laptop> i'm not sure I understand
<tgm4883_laptop> non beta testers never see the edge link
<andrea-bs> it's just a small typo in the url: launchpad.net should be "standard", not "edge.lp.net"
<tgm4883_laptop> it is
<tgm4883_laptop> unless you are a beta tester
<tgm4883_laptop> which I thought was what you were trying to say
<andrea-bs> I'm talking about the project summary of lp.net/launchpad
<rockstar> andrea-bs, are you on the beta testers team?
<andrea-bs> rockstar: yes, I am
<tgm4883_laptop> and you are worried that non beta testers will see the edge link?
<rockstar> That's why then.  It would show the link differently if you weren't.
<andrea-bs> tgm4883_laptop: no, of course
<tgm4883_laptop> then......i'm confused
<andrea-bs> rockstar: but if I log out I still see "edge" in the summary
<andrea-bs> the link has been set in https://launchpad.net/launchpad/+edit
<tgm4883_laptop> ah I get it now
<andrea-bs> that's why it includes edge for everyone
<rockstar> andrea-bs, ah, I see the link you're talking about.
<tgm4883_laptop> so edit it and remove the edge part
<mpt> hm
<mpt> I've forgotten what "focus of development" means
<mpt> Anyone know?
<tgm4883_laptop> mpt, that would be where all of the development is focused?
<mpt> Yes, what does that mean?
<tgm4883_laptop> it's were most of the projects development is taking place
<tgm4883_laptop> ie, trunk
<tgm4883_laptop> or for ubuntu, it's intrepid
<mpt> It can't just mean trunk, because projects have a "trunk" series by default
<mpt> and yet it's still possible to change "development focus" to a different series
<mpt> salgado, do you know?
<tgm4883_laptop> I assume thats because you don't have to call it trunk
<tgm4883_laptop> you could call it intrepid
<tgm4883_laptop> and when you release intrepid, you could then change it to jackalope
<salgado> mpt, isn't that just a way to define what lp:project-name will point to?
<salgado> or does lp:project-name always point to trunk?
<mpt> salgado, does that mean it's useful only if you use Launchpad for code hosting?
<salgado> mpt, not sure.  I have no idea what I'm talking about here.  rockstar should know, for sure
<mpt> hm, looks like it's also used in Bugs somehow
<rockstar> mpt, the trunk is usually considered "focus of development"
<mpt> rockstar, in what cases would it not be?
<rockstar> Basically, it indicates where all the development is going on, so you know where to branch from to get the most up-to-date code.
<rockstar> mpt, in cases where the development is shifted to another branch with a LARGE feature that requires many developer's focus.
<mpt> rockstar, so does changing the development focus change what bzr branch lp:project-name does?
<tgm4883_laptop> i'd also think that trunk wasn't the development of focus leading up to a major release, where all development would be happening on that release
<rockstar> Yes.
<rockstar> Branching from lp:foo will pull the current development focus for foo
<mpt> ok
<mpt> rockstar, can you tell how it affects Bugs, or should I ask a Bugs person?
<rockstar> mpt, best to ask bugs.  I didn't even know it affected them.
<mpt> ok, thanks rockstar
<mpt> gmb, can you unpuzzle me? :-)
<gmb> wsfg?
<mpt> gmb, a project's development focus affects how bugs work in some way but I can't tell what it is
<gmb> Oh, okay.
 * gmb looks.
<mpt> (I'm in the middle of reporting a bug that this should be explained better)
<gmb> mpt: Good luck with that. It's horribly arcane in a lot of ways and is hell to describe, even in a code review.
<gmb> mpt: Basically, though, if the project has a development focus then the bug task which is filed against that development focus is the master bug task for that bug.
<gmb> (So you'll see things like "Tracked in foo-bar 0.2" in the slave bug tasks)
<rockstar> gmb, wtf?
<rockstar> I didn't understand very much of that.
<gmb> rockstar: Heh; I work with it and I don't get it every time.
<gmb> Erm, let me think about this.
<rockstar> gmb, :)
<gmb> rockstar: So, say you file a bug against the fronobulator project.
<gmb> Someone then targets that bug to a release (not the current development focus).
<gmb> Then someone else *also* targets it to the development focus release (well, series is the correct nomenclature here).
<gmb> There are then two bug tasks.
<gmb> One for fronobulator not-dev-focus
<gmb> and one for fronobulator dev-focus.
<rockstar> Okay, so the conjoined master is what results.
<gmb> Correct.
<rockstar> Ah, okay, that makes more sense.
<mpt> So the line for "Fronobulator" will say "Tracked in <whatever the development focus is>"
<gmb> mpt: Right.
<mpt> gmb, what does it say before someone targets it to the development focus?
<mpt> "Tracked in <old release>"? Or something else?
<gmb> mpt: Let me check...
<gmb> mpt: You just see two bug tasks. One for <Project>, one for <Series/Release>
<gmb> mpt: https://bugs.staging.launchpad.net/bugzilla-launchpad/+bug/274186
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 274186 in consolekit "console-kit-daemon crashed with SIGSEGV in fclose@@GLIBC_2.2.5() (dup-of: 263245)" [Undecided,New]
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 263245 in consolekit "console-kit-daemon crashed with SIGSEGV in fclose()" [Medium,Confirmed]
<gmb> Hush, ubuntoid, you don't know what you're on about.
<gmb> Oh, it's ubuntoid's dumber brother, ubottu
<mpt> gmb, ok, thank you for your investigations
<gmb> np
<mpt> and explanations
<cr3> when I enqueued a branch for merging, will it be done automatically?
<cr3> it's been enqueued for 2 hours, I'm wondering if I still need to merge manually and then LP will automatically detect the merge
<rockstar> cr3, no, it wan't merge automatically.
<cr3> rockstar: cheers dude, I would've waited a long time :)
<rockstar> If you want to merge automatically, you'll need to set up a PQM instance.
<rockstar> We'd like to make it so that enqueing it will allow an external PQM instance to see that queue and merge automatically, but we haven't gotten that far.
<pmatulis> what is the difference between 'subscribers' and 'also notified' ?
<siretart> the latter are implicit subscribers
<BjornT> pmatulis: what siretart said. 'also notified' are people like assignee and people subscribed to the whole project/package. 'subscribers' are people that has explicitly subscribed to the specific bug
<pmatulis> BjornT: thank you
#launchpad 2008-09-26
<NCommander> hey wgrant
<Accidus> Where can I find more help on the luachpadlib module, except for the API html page?
<thekorn> Accidus: https://help.launchpad.net/API/launchpadlib and the branch also contains a docs/ directory
<thekorn> with some usefull documentation
<Accidus> Thank you very much, but I've already looked there. I guess I'm on my own then?
<thekorn> Accidus: I'm not sure, but what about asking your questions here, or https://answers.edge.launchpad.net/launchpadlib or on the launchpad-users mailinglist?
<thekorn> I think the api devs are always happy to hear where they can improve the documentation ;)
<Accidus> thekorn: To tell you the truth, it's because I'm new to launchpadlib, so I figured messing the forums/mailing lists with newbie questions wouldn't be appropriate
<thekorn> Accidus: launchpadlib is brand new, so every user is new to it, just ask your questions
<Accidus> Ah, that's something I didn't know...
<persia> I seem to have locked a branch in LP (my branch, noone else should be using it).  How can I unlock it?
<Verterok> persia: try with: bzr break-lock <your-branch>
<persia> Verterok: Thank you.  That worked.
<Verterok> persia: great, glad to help :)
<salutis> ï»¿hello all, I have big problem - recently I moved my packages from my own server to ubuntu's PPA at launchpad. and now I can't build my packages anymore. I placed my log at 'http://www.salutis.sk/ppa-log.txt'. can anyone please help me? thanks!
<cprov> salutis: can you point me to your ppa ?
<salutis> cprov: http://ppa.launchpad.net/salutis/ubuntu
<salutis> cprov: there are 3 source packages - all with the same build failure :(
<salutis> cprov: right now, geser at #motu adviced me - the build target is always run as non-root on the buildds, just remove the dh_testroot from the build target and it should get farther. I will try
<cprov> salutis: yes, I'm there too
<cprov> salutis: btw, you have a permanent URL for you failed build -> https://edge.launchpad.net/~salutis/+archive/+build/722220
<persia> How long should I wait after a push before the branch is available on LP?
<Verterok> persia: the branch is available immediately, but it take some time until it's showed in the we interface (I don't know the precise mechanism, but I think it's scanned)
<Verterok> s/we interface/web interface/ :p
<persia> OK.  I usually find it's just a couple minutes, but I've been waiting 7, which seems long.
<Peng_> FWIW, it might also take a few minutes for the branch to be available over http://bazaar.launchpad.net/. bzr+ssh or sftp will be instantaneous.
<Peng_> (Right? Cough.)
<cprov> Peng_: yes, http branch mapping takes some minutes (IIRC)
<Peng_> :)
<kiko> cprov, peng_: I think it's something like 3 minutes
<cprov> kiko: thanks.
<jdrake> When making a blueprint, I notice there is a way to set a milestone, but I am not sure how to actually setup milestones. Any ideas?
<kiko> jdrake, sure thing. what project are we talking about?
<jdrake> My project 'starz'
<jdrake> I have the series 'demo1' and 'trunk', the latter obviously being there already. I am not sure I would really want trunk there, being that I am doing all current development in demo1
<kiko> jdrake, why didn't you just rename trunk to demo1?
<jdrake> even with demo1 already there?
<kiko> well, now it's a bit too late (though I can fix that for you)
<jdrake> Is it possible to delete a series?
<nedko> why launchpad refuses to show my location on the map?
<kiko> jdrake, I can delete it for you. should I delete trunk?
<maco> i need a bit of help. i pushed a branch to bazaar on launchpad a bit over a week ago, and launchpad still reports that it's empty.  i've tried to push from my computer again, but it says there's nothing new to commit.  what do i do?
<salgado> nedko, have you set your location at https://launchpad.net/people/+me/+editlocation
<kiko> maco, oh, URL?
<jdrake> kiko, I think that would be best, thank you.
<maco> kiko: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~maco.m/update-manager/update_button
<nedko> salgado: yes, i see the correct location there, and my timezone is fine too, in fact once there was only timezone and it looks launchpad used that. I dont see the map on my page and i dont see my location in team maps
<kiko> cprov, check out maco's failure
<kiko> cprov, something stuck in the scanner I think
<cprov> kiko: sure
<salgado> nedko, what's your LP username?
<nedko> salgado: i think i missed how to use google maps, i need to click to set it o.0
<nedko> salgado: it is "nedko"
<kiko> nedko, click and then update
<cprov> maco: can you try a `push --overwrite` ?
<nedko> salgado, kiko: thanks, now it is fine
<cprov> maco: is it working ?
<maco> cprov: no new revisions to push
<maco> cprov: it also says Format <RepositoryFormatKnit1> for lp-140342092:///~maco.m/update-manager/update_button/.bzr is deprecated - please use 'bzr upgrade' to get better performance
<cprov> maco: that's bad, then the last resource is `bzr ci --unchanged -m "go, bzr, go" && bzr push`
<cprov> maco: this is unrelated, but if you upgrade there will be something to push, for sure.
<maco> cprov: i tried that last night when i got that error. no change.
<cprov> maco: when, introduce a new revision then. Let me check if the bzr guys can help
<cprov> maco: and let's open a bug about it.
<maco> cprov: it could have been the timing
<maco> cprov: i first tried it last thursday a few hours after the lp update
<cprov> maco: yes, maybe.
<maco> cprov: and i remember there was some emergency patching happening throughout the next day... i had one branch push fine about an hour before, and then this one didn't
<rockstar> maco, what if bzr push --force
<rockstar> Er, bzr push --overwrite
<maco> rockstar: didn't try that, but after adding a new reivion like cprov suggested, it pushed
<maco> rockstar: oh, did try --overwrite. no good.
<rockstar> But a new revision pushed?
<maco> rockstar: yes
<rockstar> Launchpad still doesn't see your push though.  :(
<maco> rockstar: or at least, bzr didn't yell at me
<rockstar> You should see the Source Code link as soon as it pushes.
<maco> rockstar: i'm told it can take up to 5 minutes for the lp web interface to show it
<maco> oh its been 5 minutes...
<rockstar> maco, well, the revisions, yes, the Source Code link, no.
<rockstar> I did that myself, so I know that code relatively well.
<maco> :-/
<kiko> rockstar, it seems that there's a problem with that specific branch mirrorring
<kiko> maco, does it use something unusual such as stacking or looms?
<maco> kiko: um, you say that and i think plates and making fabric...
<rockstar> kiko, I'm pulling it currently, meaning it's coming from the mirror.
<rockstar> maco, I guess that means no to looms.  :)
<maco> rockstar: i just did bzr branch, made some changes, bzr ci, and then bzr push
<rockstar> maco, it branched for you?
<kiko> heh
<maco> rockstar: yes
<rockstar> Mine appears to be hung.  I see no hpss traffic if I sniff my connection.
<maco> er, i dont mean just now
<maco> i mean when i did this last thursday
<rockstar> Oh, so branching from this branch right now isn't working for you?
<rockstar> Oh, there it goes!  hpss traffic now!
<maco> havent tried that
<rockstar> I just branched it.  Maybe it just needs to be rescanned after the interruption.
<maco> i meant "just" as in "only"
<maco> rescanned?
<rockstar> So the branch is intact, but Launchpad needs to look at it again.
<rockstar> kiko, I think you're right.  Something happened in the mirroring process.  I bet we see an oops from this.
<kiko> rockstar, yeah, I think there's something unusual about his branch
<kiko> rockstar, does bzr info tell you anything interesting?
<rockstar> kiko, her
<rockstar> bzr info yields nothing unusual.  The branch is indeed intact. This concerns me a bit.
<maco> rockstar: so um, do you guys need any other info from me?
<rockstar> maco, no, I think I need to do some sleuthing.
<rockstar> maco, by the way, if you find yourself in a creole country, and someone calls you maco, you should be offended.  :)
<maco> rockstar: is that where it means "nebby"?
<maco> wait i think that's pittsburghese.... um nosey
<maco> someone in #linuxchix said it means that somewhere...i thought it was one of the aussies, but maybe not
<rockstar> maco, well, that's what it means in French.  In Creole, the closest English word I know would be "Peeping Tom"
<maco> O_o
<rockstar> So, maybe nosy pervert?
<maco> wow ok...
<rockstar> I learned it by talking to someone's girlfriend, and they thought I was flirting with her.
<maco> why'd they think that?
<rockstar> maco, *shrug* mwen pas sais.
<maco> rockstar: je ne parle pas francais :P
<maco> but i can type that Ã§
<rockstar> I actually speak Creole.  It's like one way French.
<maco> like moroccans can understand middle eastern arabic, but middle easterners can't understand moroccan arabic?
<RainCT> Hi
<RainCT> I've just got 3 [Accepted] emails (with like 5-10 minutes between each) for a single PPA upload..
<cprov> RainCT: uhm let me check.
<cprov> RainCT: which source ?
<RainCT> cprov: bsod
<cprov> RainCT: that's weird, because it doesn't look like more than one was sent to Recipients: "Siegfried Gevatter \(RainCT\)" <siggi.gevatter@gmail.com>
<cprov> RainCT: do they have the same content ? different msg-ids ?
<RainCT> cprov: Ah wait, it's just two. "[PPA rainct] Accepted: bsod ... (source)" and "[PPA rainct] [ubuntu/hardy] bsod ... (Accepted)"
<cprov> RainCT: err, PPA stamp on primary archive upload-announcements ?
<RainCT> cprov: sorry?
<cprov> RainCT: forward the email(s) to me, please (cprov@canonical.com)
<cprov> RainCT: the '[ubuntu/hardy]' is weird.
<RainCT> cprov: done
<cprov> RainCT: thanks
<cprov> RainCT: strange, I've just uploaded a new version of your source to my PPA and received one single email (with [ubuntu/hardy] in the subject)
<cprov> oh, you have two emails ...
<cprov> siggi.gevatter@gmail.com (preferred) & rainct@ubuntu.com (used in the changesfile), that might be related.
<RainCT> yea, but both mails were send to the first address
<maco> RainCT: what's your @ubuntu.com email address map to?
<cprov> maco: it was sent from lp to his @gmail address.
<RainCT> maco: siggi.gevatter@gmail.com
<maco> so then they should both end up at that gmail address, shouldn't they?
<cprov> maco: and they did. RainCT ?
<maco> so what's wrong then?
<cprov> maco: there shouldn't be 2 emails.
<cprov> maco: only one is expected. The one with subject starting with '[PPA rainct] [ubuntu/hardy] ...'
<cprov> RainCT: err, if we have ever checked the date (!)
<cprov> and the version ... [PPA rainct] Accepted: bsod 0.1-0ubuntu1~ppa1 (source)
<cprov> RainCT: that email is from 2008/6/18 :)
<RainCT> cprov: LOL sorry
<cprov> RainCT: np, better than having a real bug.
<RainCT> seems like GMail was mad and it put the mail three times into the inbox or something -.-  sorry
<RainCT> heh yea that's true
#launchpad 2008-09-27
<glade88> hello.. what all teams are allowed to have a 16x16 team icon instead of a 14x14 one?
 * wgrant wasn't aware that they could.
<glade88> wgrant: the ubuntuforums.org staff, ubuntumembers, ubuntu-marketting, bash etc have 16x16 icons
<glade88> translation teams have their country's flag which is also not a 14x14 image
<wgrant> It's possible that that happened before the imposition of the restriction,
<LarstiQ> which begs the question, what's the rationale behind the restriction?
<glade88> perhaps..
<glade88> wgrant: earlier I had in mind that brainstorm moderators team should be allowed a 16x16 icon when UF staff like teams have..
<wgrant> LarstiQ: It doesn't beg the question.
<LarstiQ> wgrant: as in, English?
 * LarstiQ uses it as begets
<wgrant> http://begthequestion.info/
<LarstiQ> hmkay
<LarstiQ> so, English dicussions aside, why?
<glade88> IMO.. 14x14 is a bit too small..while 16x16 was just okay.
<wgrant> So it fits into places it's meant to, I suspect.
<wgrant> It's much nicer having a uniform subscriber list.
<glade88> wgrant: its shown up only on user pages
<glade88> and with different sized icons, its not uniform now
<wgrant> I believe it's also shown in bug subscription lists.
<wgrant> See https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/hardy/+source/newsbeuter/+bug/275019
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 275019 in newsbeuter "[CVE-2008-3907] Arbitrary code execution by crafted item URLs" [High,In progress]
<LarstiQ> wgrant: do you actually use beg the question for its logical meaning?
<wgrant> LarstiQ: I do not.
<LarstiQ> wgrant: ok. Neither have I ever seen anyone use it that way.
<wgrant> Doesn't mean using it the other way is right.
<LarstiQ> mja
<LarstiQ> wgrant: I just use drogredenering or circular reasoning.
<Hobbsee> oh, nyah.  darn launchpad.
<Hobbsee> pleaes don't delete my form data.
<persia> You mean when you submit something with a typo?
<Hobbsee> no - putting in a summary, then hitting advanced, when filing a bug.
<Hobbsee> wipes the summary
<persia> Oh, I haven't looked at non-advanced bug filing since feisty, except once when the name changed from "complicated" to "advanced".
<nhandler> I just noticed the "Does this bug affect you?" button on launchpad edge. Is there any documentation about what happens when someone says that they are affected by a bug? Does it just confirm the bug? Does it increment a counter of how many people are affected by the bug? Are you able to say that you are affected by a bug you report? When you report a bug, are you automatically marked as being affected by it?
<qense> I think you just get subscribed
<nhandler> qense: I really hope that it does more than that. Subscribers are not the same as people affected by a bug.
<qense> yeah
<wgrant> It adds an entry to BugAffectsUser, so it could easily display a count.
<wgrant> It's not just subscription.
<wgrant> It might not be subscription at all.
<nhandler> Is there any documentation about this new feature?
<wgrant> NAFAIK.
<wgrant> But IANALPD
<wgrant> But going by usual Launchpad standards, particularly as this is such a new feature...
<qense> well, than I was wrong
<qense> Is the counter already displayed?
 * wgrant pokes around.
<wgrant> qense: Doesn't look like it.
<wgrant> If it is displayed, it's a bug, because I can't see it.
<nhandler> So let me get this straight. Saying the bug affects you increments some counter, but the counter is not available to anyone? This sounds like a pointless feature to me
<wgrant> nhandler: I suspect that the feature isn't complete yet.
 * wgrant digs up the bugs.
<wgrant> intellectronica would know, but isn't around...
<wgrant> It would be nice if these plans were public...
<wgrant> ISTR several bugs on this topic, and only seeing one marked as fixed. So I presume it's not yet complete.
 * Hobbsee wonders why it was rolled out, if it was incomplete.
<wgrant> Hobbsee: Why not?
<wgrant> More for the regulars to complain about. All the better.
<Hobbsee> wgrant: seems unprofessional?
<wgrant> Watching if things break, rather than rolling it out all at once...
<wgrant> Hobbsee: It's a pre-release. 'tis fine.
<Hobbsee> wgrant: oh, i thought this rolled out to production.
<wgrant> No, 1.2.10 isn't due for a while yet.
<persia> I thought all committed gode automatically went to edge if it didn't break anything.
<qense> can you already browse the variable using the API?
<wgrant> persia: Such things would often be kept in another branch until completion.
<Slash_Network> hello all
<Slash_Network> can sombody help me ?
<wgrant> !ask
<ubottu> Please don't ask to ask a question, ask the question (all on ONE line, so others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely answer. :-)
<Slash_Network> It's about comfirming my key to sign the code of conduct. I don't know what I put in the "signed text"
<elcuco> hi all, i am tryign to register a new project in launchpad, however my code is only available from svn (no bazar). what are my options?
<Dominic> elcuco: you don't have to have any code on lp if you don't want to.  You can also import the code from an external svn server and it'll update a branch in lp's bzr repo if you like.
<Dominic> elcuco: you can go through the registration process, then once you're registered, click on the 'Code' tab and it'll give you the options
<elcuco> Dominic: yes, i am there, and i see now the svn configuration. i am still trying to understand if i will have write commit to my svn repo
 * elcuco is trying to open a translation project for kde
<Dominic> I think it's purely a read-only import of svn into an lp hosted bzr repo, so you'd just use your existing commit access back to the main svn repo and it'd show up later in lp's bzr
<Dominic> but I guess you could then branch the bzr version if you liked on lp
<elcuco> the deal is that i don't want users to deal with anything *but* the gui
<Dominic> I'm not sure you even need to have the code visible in lp to use translations, but I haven't used it
<elcuco> lp has it's own translations, but they are tied up to ubuntu. i don't want that, i want the branches to be tied up with kde's upstream 'code'
<elcuco> lp seems interesting for translating, and this is what i am trying to use
<Dominic> indeed, but I don't think you even need to configure the code bit to make use of the translation section.  Might be worth playing on staging.launchpad.net and you can try it out without harming anything
<Dominic> but even still, if you set up a code import from svn, nobody's going to be able to commit back anyway unless they had valid credentials
<elcuco> so this means i am still translating in void, without option to commit back "upstream". correct?
<Dominic> I don't know, I haven't used the translations section from a dev perspective to know how it works, sorry.
<oojah> elcuco: The launchpad translations aren't necessarily tied to ubuntu.
<oojah> Some of my personal projects use lp for translations but aren't even on any distros.
<oojah> elcuco: The important bit is that the people developing the code decide to use launchpad for the translations.
<elcuco> oojah: is it possible to commit from LP to upstream? (only translations)
<oojah> If they don't incorporate the translations done on launchpad into the repo, then it's a bit of a waste of time.
<oojah> elcuco: Not as far as I know, but I'm only a lp user.
<oojah> Once translations are ready, they can then be downloaded as a tar ball.
<oojah> Well, at any point.
<oojah> They don't have to be "complete" :)
<elcuco> but my translations are a moving target, i need a constant "merge"
<epsy> hi, i've noticed a small issue with team maps: most of the time bubbles just doesnt fit the map frame..and it looks..weird
<epsy> you can't have both the whole bubble and the pin tofether
<Accidus> Anyone here has some experience with launchpadlib?
<beuno> Accidus, a little bit. What seems to be the problem?
<Accidus> Hmm... Well, it's probably due to my misunderstanding of the concept, but I'm having problems with iterators.
<beuno> Accidus, want to pastebin the code/output somewhere?
<Accidus> For the argument's sake, take proj = launchpad.projects['launchpadlib']
<beuno> I also happen to know Verterok is around, and he's played with it more than I have
<Accidus> It's rather short. Do you still prefer a pastebin?
<Accidus> (most of the code is authenticating, which is standard code)
<beuno> sure, pastebins are IRC-friendly
<Accidus> Okay. Just a sec.
<Verterok> Accidus: shoot, I'll try to answer :)
<Accidus> Just a sec then. I'll make a pastebin :).
<Accidus> Okay
<Accidus> http://pastebin.com/m4e84477b
<Accidus> It seems that the iterator entry misses some key attributes.
<Accidus> For example, the entry_links one
<Accidus> Or the self_link one
<Accidus> But, well, I could be dead wrong, because this is just an iterator entry, not a normal entry (like 'project' or 'person')
<Verterok> Accidus: let me check
<Verterok> Accidus: I think that: proj.releases should be enough :)
<Verterok> that 'll return the collection of releases
<Accidus> Hmm... Interesting.
<Accidus> proj.releases doesn't appear in the doc
<Accidus> While releases_collection_link does
<beuno> Accidus, sounds like a bug!  ;)
<beuno> (in the docs)
<Verterok> Accidus: run yout py, with: 'python -i' and play with the dir() funtion in the interactive interpreter
<Accidus> Ah, probably
<Accidus> Verterok: I'm using the dir() excessively :0)
<Accidus> That doc file is hard to use :)
<Verterok> ;)
 * beuno was hinting at Accidus to file a bug so the docs can be updated
<Verterok> Accidus: I almost never look the docs, just the code :)
<Accidus> Don't worry. I'm filing a bug.
<Accidus> Although I'm not sure how to report it.
<Accidus> "In the docs appears the "releases_collection_link" attribute, but if you try to use it you get b0rked objects, while the "releases" attribute works fine?
<beuno> yeap, let the dev figure the rest out  :)
<Accidus> Sounds good. I'll probably add more flesh to the report though. I'd hate to receive such a report myself.
<beuno> well, the more flesh it has, the more chances it'll get fixed. So feel encouraged to add as much as you can
<Accidus> Hooray! It works!
<Accidus> Now to wrap it up into a single script :)
<Verterok> Accidus: great!
<Accidus> Verterok: How do you figure out an operation's arguments if not from the api doc?
<Verterok> mmm...a good question...don't know the answer
<Accidus> Okay. Thanks :)
<Verterok> Accidus:  I assume looking the code that write the http request ;)
<Accidus> Hehe. Welllllllll... Not really. I think that looking at the API doc first
<Accidus> is a better action.
<Accidus> If it's not there/not updated, then doing some guesswork
<Accidus> And if push comes to shove, asking in the answers page for launchpadlib.
<Accidus> Only if you're in a real hurry I'd guess looking at the request a recommended action :))
<Verterok> Accidus: sure, y'r right
<Verterok> Accidus: it's just that I  like to know the internals :)
 * Verterok must leave now, seeya later
 * Accidus knows the feeling.
<Accidus> See you later! And thanks for all the help
#launchpad 2008-09-28
<IntuitiveNipple> I have a strange PPA build FTBFS issue. Uploaded a version of audacity with libsoundtouch enabled. to enable that to work, I also built a new soundtouch package from upstream 1.3.1 (to satisfy the audacity depends). soundtouch built successfully. audacity builds successfully for lpia and amd64 but fails for i386. In a local pbuilder the i386 succeeds.
<IntuitiveNipple> The failure is with a  #include of one of the soundtouch include headers in /usr/include/soundtouch - but all three arch's have it installed
<geser> URL of the build log?
<IntuitiveNipple> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/18012508/buildlog_ubuntu-hardy-i386.audacity_1.3.4-1.1ubuntu2~ppa1h_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<IntuitiveNipple> and the amd64 for comparison:
<IntuitiveNipple> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/18012525/buildlog_ubuntu-hardy-lpia.audacity_1.3.4-1.1ubuntu2~ppa1h_FULLYBUILT.txt.gz
<IntuitiveNipple> soory, lpia!
<IntuitiveNipple> I checked the log to be sure the soundtouch 1.3.1 dev package was installed, and that the audacity configure script detects the system libraries as it should
<geser> IntuitiveNipple: compare also the contents of libsoundtouch1-dev on amd64 and i386
<IntuitiveNipple> geser: of the .debs you mean?
<geser> IntuitiveNipple: yes, the amd64 one has usr/include/soundtouch/st_assert.h, the i386 hasn't that file (I didn't check lpia yet)
<IntuitiveNipple> geser: really!? I checked them locally and they were okay, which would explain why it builds locally. How the heck did it manage to miss that I wonder?
<geser> IntuitiveNipple: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/18010432/buildlog_ubuntu-hardy-i386.soundtouch_1.3.1-0ubuntu1~ppa1h_FULLYBUILT.txt.gz and see the package contents at the end of the log
<IntuitiveNipple> geser: yeah I noticed that... now to work out *how* that happened!
<IntuitiveNipple> somehow a patch must have failed, just i386
<IntuitiveNipple> well this has me truly flummoxed!
<pro-rsoft|idle> Hi, where to request for a certain Series to be deleted, if it was accidentally created?
<spm> pro-rsoft|idle: open a question against the launchpad project, specifying the project/series you wish removed.
<pro-rsoft|idle> okay
<RainCT> Hi
<RainCT> Does/Will launchpadlib allow to download PO files from rosetta?
<salutis> Hello guys! I am still unable to build packages in PPA. There is an error (new one) in the log file. Please, can anyone help? Thanks! Log is located here - http://launchpadlibrarian.net/17982008/buildlog_ubuntu-intrepid-i386.thinkingrock_2.0.1-0ubuntu5_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<geser> salutis: don't use the build target (which is run as non-root) to install files, a better place is the binary target
<salutis> geser: aha
<salutis> geser: I will try!
<geser> salutis: can you point me to your PPA? so I can look at the package
<salutis> geser: deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/salutis/ubuntu hardy main
<salutis> deb-src http://ppa.launchpad.net/salutis/ubuntu hardy main
<geser> salutis: after checking your debian/rules, it would be a good idea if you looked again at the packaging guide (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Complete) escpecially the section about debian/rules (and the example there)
<geser> it might save you several upload iterations before it finally builds
<salutis> geser: you're right. because there's no compilation I changed 'build' to 'binary'
<salutis> geser: I will try and check
<geser> salutis: if you don't have a build, you can have a empty build target, but everything which needs "root" like installing files, changing ownership, etc. needs to be run from the binary target
<salutis> geser: thank you for your help! it saved me lot of time. I am trying to fix my packages right now
<salutis> I got error by e-mail from no_reply@lanuchpad.net: 'Rejected:  Unhandled exception processing upload: 'ascii' codec can't encode character u'\u010d' in position 75: ordinal not in range(128)' :(
<LarstiQ> does it also give a traceback?
<salutis> ï»¿LarstiQ: no, I received only e-mail
<salutis> LarstiQ: I don't know about trackback
<Ursinha> salutis, what were you trying to upload?
<salutis> Ursinha: salutis-connect (1.2.5)
<Ursinha> oh, your package
<Ursinha> let me see if there is an already reported bug
<salutis> Ursinha: yes
<salutis> Ursinha: FYI - the package is lintian checked, without errors or warnings
<Ursinha> salutis, i guess the error you got is unrelated to package problems
<LarstiQ> u'\u010d' is Ä
<LarstiQ> salutis: which I guess may be in your name?
<LarstiQ> salutis: do you have the .dsc file available somewhere?
<salutis> LarstiQ: here - http://www.salutis.sk/salutis-connect_1.2.5.dsc
<LarstiQ> salutis: okay, no problem there.
<LarstiQ> salutis: could there be any other place in the package that uses a Ä, the changelog maybe?
<LarstiQ> salutis: I see your user page features it
<LarstiQ> salutis: did the reject email mention anything else?
<salutis> LarstiQ: grep -R 'Ä' * gives me only 'salutis-connect.sh:  _AUTHOR_NAME_="Rudolf AdamkoviÄ - Salutis"'. so, it's only in main script
<LarstiQ> salutis: then I think it's a launchpad bug
<salutis> LarstiQ: in the e-mail, there are is only 1 line with mentioned error and then some generic information like 'format', 'date', 'source', 'binary', 'architecture' etc...
<Ursinha> LarstiQ, it is indeed
<salutis> :(
<LarstiQ> Ursinha: without the code or such, I suspect it's trying to use salutis' display name somewhere and not taking into account some unicode issues?
<Ursinha> LarstiQ, launchpad has known issues with some unicode chars
<Ursinha> LarstiQ, all on queue to be fixed
<LarstiQ> Ursinha: cool
<Ursinha> at least all we know :)
<salutis> so, I can remove 'Ä' from my profile name and it should work? I want upload packages ASAP :-/
<LarstiQ> :)
<LarstiQ> salutis: that would be my recommended try at a workaround, yes
<Ursinha> salutis, you can try that
<salutis> perfect guys, I am very happy from your help! and sorry for my buggy english :)
<LarstiQ> salutis: thinkingrock looks interesting, just this week I've been reading David Allen's book, so I'll surely check it out
<Ursinha> salutis, no problem :) you can come here every time you need
<Ursinha> salutis, can you just tell me if changing the char on the script will be enough to workaround it?
<salutis> Ursinha: yes, of course. wait a second
<Ursinha> salutis, thanks >:)
<Ursinha> oops
<Ursinha> s/>//
<salutis> Ursinha: it's working, package is accepted
<Ursinha> salutis, thanks for checking it for me
<Ursinha> and for reporting it
<salutis> thanks guys!
<LarstiQ> salutis: pleased to help :)
<Ursinha> salutis, no worries :)
<Ursinha> salutis, one more thing if possible :) can you send me one PM or email with the error mail you've received?
<salutis> Ursinha: yes, of course. I will
<Ursinha> salutis, thanks! if you prefer email, you can send it to ursinha@canonical.com
<salutis> Ursinha: It's in PM here at ICQ. it is O.K.?
<Ursinha> it's ok, i'm receiving it
<Ursinha> ICQ? how come?
<salutis> Ursinha: no, no - I mean IRC, of course :)
<Ursinha> oh :D
<Ursinha> salutis, may i attach that info to the bug i'm filing?
<salutis> Ursinha: of course
<Ursinha> salutis, thanks
<salutis> guys, how long it take to delete packages from PPA? I deleted my packages 5 mins ago and I still can't upload new ones (Rejected: File <...> already exists in PPA for Rudolf Adamkovic, but uploaded version has different contents)
<IntuitiveNipple> This morning I had a package build on PPA for gutsy, hardy, and intrepid (i386, amd64, lpia). The hardy i386 package somehow missed out installed *one* (development header) file into the -dev package. The i386 builds for gutsy and intrepid included the file, as did local pbuilder hardy i386 test builds. I've just bumped the changelog version and re-uploaded the package and now the file is included. Because I can't explain the issue based o
<IntuitiveNipple> n the packaging itself I'm wondering if it *might* be some kind of random glitch on the buildds. I thought it might be a good idea to at least put the issue on the radar in case similar things happen again for others.
<IntuitiveNipple> The package in my PPA is soundtouch (1.3.1-0ubuntu1~ppa1h) hardy - note, it successfully built but another package that Build-Depends on it FTBFS the i386 hardy version only
<IntuitiveNipple> (the file is "usr/include/soundtouch/st_assert.h" and it is created by debian/patches/00_assert.patch)
<salutis> ï»¿how long it takes to delete packages from PPA? I deleted my packages aprox. 1 hour ago and I still can't upload new ones (Rejected: File <...> already exists in PPA for Rudolf Adamkovic, but uploaded version has different contents). please help!
<salutis> sorry, there was a network error. if there was any answers to my question, please post it again. thanks!
<fta> is it possible to add a new bug tracker for a project when it's not in the registered tracker list?
<beuno> fta, I think you have to request for it to get added
<fta> beuno, how? a bug?
<beuno> you can file a question in https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad
<fta> ok, thanks
<Stavros> hello
<Stavros> how can i create a new release to add files to? launchpad is so confusing :(
<beuno> Stavros, you have to create a release from a series
<beuno> (it is confusing, we're working on it)
<beuno> so, go to a series (or create a new one)
<beuno> and you can create a release from it
<Stavros> ah, "register a release"? thanks
<beuno> that's it!
<beuno> np
<Stavros> how long until the non-confusing version arrives? :/
<beuno> I wish I knew. But it's on the top of the list, so it can't be too long
<Stavros> ah, great
<Stavros> i hate how i try to find something and keep going round and round in cycles
<beuno> yeah, we all do
<beuno> we're working on making the UI much easier to use
<Stavros> that's great, because now the functions are all over the place
<Stavros> for example, i wanted to add a new download, there should be an "add file" in the downloads page
<beuno> so you will see many improvements land
<Stavros> where i can select from the series or add a new one
<Stavros> i hope so, because i love the service
<Stavros> it's really useful (when i can use it) :P
<beuno> Stavros, when you find something confusing, please, file a bug for it, or add a comment to an existing one
<beuno> it helps a lot to know what we should be focusing on
<Stavros> ah, great, i'll do that now
<beuno> anyway, I'm off to do sunday stuff
<Stavros> oh, it's sunday
<Stavros> okay, thanks again
#launchpad 2009-09-21
<MontelEdwards> what/where would I file a bug about the karmic live CD?
<maxb> MontelEdwards: Ideally on whichever Ubuntu package the bug relates to. People on #ubuntu-bugs might be a good bet for figuring that out if you don't know. As a last resort you could file a bug on Ubuntu in general
<MontelEdwards> maxb, I already talked to a developer. Thanks anyways
<RenatoSilva> If you're the owner of a project and you are working on a feature branch, there isn't a better URL than lp:~user/project/feature?
<RenatoSilva> I mean, for trunk you just use lp:project, but for other branches you need a full URL, that's boring :(
<RenatoSilva> I'm thinking of cerating a temporary series called 'feature'
<spiv> RenatoSilva: The *full* URL is bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/~user/project/feature :P
<RenatoSilva> spiv: ok I want the shorter :)
<lifeless> RenatoSilva: you can create a temporary series, if you think the feature is going to be around a long time
<lifeless> RenatoSilva: consider though, that *two* people may be working on  the same feature
<RenatoSilva> so?
<RenatoSilva> I'm thinking of the series workaround just for avoiding long urls :)
<lifeless> RenatoSilva: how often are you typing the url in?
<thumper> RenatoSilva: I don't type my urls in most of the time
<thumper> RenatoSilva: you can set up a default push location for your branches
<thumper> RenatoSilva: I create a new local branch and go "bzr push"
<thumper> RenatoSilva: and bzr knows it is "lp:~thumper/launchpad/<new branch name>"
<RenatoSilva> lifeless: yes, I don't keep the branches locally :)
<RenatoSilva> that's the point guys ^
<thumper> RenatoSilva: what do you mean " I don't keep the branches locally" ?
 * thumper goes for dinner - satay chicken :)
<spiv> RenatoSilva: I'm curious to know what you're doing; for me creating series all the time would be much much inconvenience than very occasionally typing in a lp: branch URL.
<JesseW> What does the "Upstream version" column mean in launchpad, e.g. on
<JesseW>          https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/apt ?
<wgrant> JesseW: The series on the upstream project that is packaged.
<spiv> FWIW, that page looks rather different on edge.
<wgrant> Right. The new one uses the same concept, but without the words.
<spiv> Yeah.
<JesseW> What's a "series" -- the apt example says "APT main series" -- this doesn't match up to anything I'm familiar with in debian (which certainly may be my ignorance)
<RenatoSilva> thumper: when I want to work on any lp branch, I bzr branch, change, commit, push and remove local dir
<RenatoSilva> spiv:  ^
<wgrant> JesseW: That's a badly configured example.
<wgrant> JesseW: It doesn't make sense.
<wgrant> JesseW: Normally it would be something like 'APT 1.x series'
<wgrant> APT 2.x series
<wgrant> etc.
<JesseW> also what is the connection between that and "apt/main" which appears when I look at the details of the link: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/hardy/+source/apt/+edit-packaging ?
<wgrant> apt/main == APT main series
<wgrant> It is https://launchpad.net/apt/main
<JesseW> *ahhh* -- thanks, that was my question.
<lifeless> a series is a focus point for  development; its a 'well known branch'
<JesseW> checking above url.
<wgrant> They're linked in the new version of the page
<lifeless> 'sid' is a series (for Debian as a whole)
<spiv> RenatoSilva: Do you ever re-use branches, or are you creating new branches each time?
<RenatoSilva> spiv: no man, I just don't like to keep them locally
<wgrant> So you have this branch for this particular thing, and you remove the local copy when you finish for the day?
<JesseW> so, why doesn't it show up in the list I get when I click on "Choose..." on +edit-packaging ?
<RenatoSilva> wgrant: yes
<wgrant> JesseW: I have no idea. That doesn't make sense.
<wgrant> RenatoSilva: Why?
<JesseW> hm, I suppose I should file a bug -- in launchpad, or?
<RenatoSilva> wgrant: I don't like to keep them locally
<wgrant> JesseW: https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad-registry/+filebug
<wgrant> RenatoSilva: So you would prefer to enter the URL a few times a day rather than keep a branch on your disk?
<RenatoSilva> yes
<RenatoSilva> and that's why I want a short url :)
<spiv> RenatoSilva: echo 'export short_url=lp:...' >> .bashrc,  then use "bzr branch $short_url" :P
<JesseW> wgrant: filed: https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad-registry/+bug/433809 thanks for the pointer.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 433809 in launchpad-registry "search fails if it contains a slash" [Undecided,New]
<JesseW> hm just testing: lp:12345 lp#6267
<wgrant> Bug #12345
<poolie> hm, interesting new edge homepage
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 12345 in isdnutils "isdn does not work, fritz avm (pnp?)" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/12345
<wgrant> poolie: Yes... Ubuntu has been knocked off the front.
<wgrant> And I don't think it's possible to get to the Code front page.
<JesseW> so is there a way in launchpad to say: this package's upstream package's homepage (or bug-reporting URL) is X?
<JesseW> and how does this description of a "package series" relate to that?
<poolie> wgrant: it's a bit like "the most interesting thing about lp is our blog"
<poolie> or "we can't think of something better to put on the homepage yet"
<poolie> the second may be true :)
<poolie> JesseW: yes, register a project, and then set its homepage and bug tracker
<wgrant> poolie: That's true. It takes up a bit of space.
<poolie> i'm not sure how you link the project and packgae though
<poolie> and i don't think they are related
<wgrant> JesseW: So, packages and projects are very separate entities in Launchpad. You link a package to a project with the form you linked to earlier.
<JesseW> to a specific "series" within a project, right?
<wgrant> JesseW: Right.
<wgrant> It's a bit strange, but it works fairly well.
<JesseW> and then the project entry in launchpad can link to the actual upstream project, if there is one?
<wgrant> JesseW: That's right.
<JesseW> the APT project lp entry doesn't seem to have such links -- how would I go about adding them?
<JesseW> it doesn't even specify the license: https://launchpad.net/apt
<wgrant> JesseW: It looks like only mvo can edit that.
<JesseW> mvo?
<wgrant> JesseW: Michael Vogt.
<wgrant> (listed as the maintainer on that page, so he has privileges over the project)
<JesseW> figured it out a sec after I pressed enter... ;-)
<RenatoSilva> spiv: haha ok
<RenatoSilva> spiv: bettern than creating a series :)
<RenatoSilva> thank you guys, gtg
<JesseW> sigh; and I presume he has a lot of actual work to do rather than fill in such info.  is there any thing I could do to help with getting it filled in?
<poolie> JesseW: he'll probably do it soon (when he comes on) to help you
<poolie> it's quicker than working around it
<poolie> what's your end goal here?
<JesseW> following loose strings...
<JesseW> ...I noticed we had both debian-policy and ubuntu-policy packages, so I looked them up on lp; looking at the lp page for debian-policy, I noticed it had nothing in the upstream version column, so though I might be able to help with that...
<JesseW> ...tried to figure out what it meant, or find docs to explain it, or how to say: "the upstream of this is the debian package with the same name"; failed; searched The Upstream Report to find a debian based package which did have a upstream link; came across the apt package; tracing the link back noticed that the lp entry for the apt project (which is different from the lp entry for apt-project, oddly) lacked mention of the li
<JesseW> cense it was under.  That's about it.  Like I said, following loose strings.
<JesseW> so, looking at a bug, how do I link to the upstream bug again?
<wgrant> JesseW: 'Also affects project'
<JesseW> ah, found it.  it's Also affects project
<RenatoSilva> how to send files to download section?
<wgrant> RenatoSilva: Add a release in one of your project's series, and add a file in there.
<RenatoSilva> it requires a milestone
<wgrant> Well, a release is a released milestone.
<RenatoSilva> there's no milestone for my releases
<RenatoSilva> I just release it
<RenatoSilva> so I just create a copy , ok
<RenatoSilva> how about release candidates?
<wgrant> Those are also releases.
<RenatoSilva> I create milestones for them?
<wgrant> Yes.
<RenatoSilva> let me explain my case
<RenatoSilva> I have sort of RC 1, 2, 3, R4, R5
<RenatoSilva> where 1-5 are yyyy.mm.dd
<RenatoSilva> I jsut want to put the packages into launchpad
<RenatoSilva> they are currently at another place
<wgrant> A release is a special case of a milestone.
<RenatoSilva> so I create milestones for them all, and releases fro r4 and r5?
<wgrant> So you must have a milestone for each release that needs files.
<wgrant> Why not a release for RC[123]?
<wgrant> A release doesn't have to be stable.
<RenatoSilva> because they were candidates....
<wgrant> But do they release files?
<RenatoSilva> or milestones
<RenatoSilva> they were beta
<RenatoSilva> beta versions
<wgrant> eg. bzr has 2.0rc1, 2.0rc2 releases, and a 2.0 milestone (because it's not out yet)
<RenatoSilva> but these beta versions were candidate for releasing at that each moment
<RenatoSilva> so a milestone is just a way of saying "hey our trunk looks nice"
<soren> An alpha release is still a release.
<RenatoSilva> can't recall what's alpha, worse or better than beta?
<wgrant> Worse.
<soren> RenatoSilva: It's worse, but it doesn't matter. That's the point.
<soren> Any release is a realsae.
<soren> Alphas, betas, release candidates, final.. whatever. They're all releases.
<RenatoSilva> so milestones are not release, they're just a way of saying that the trunk is mature??? that 's it?
<soren> You *release* something. You take what you have, and put it out there. That's what a release is.
<wgrant> RenatoSilva: A milestone can purely a time-based target for development tasks.
<RenatoSilva> so what are milestones exactly
<wgrant> s/can/can be/
<RenatoSilva>  can't get it
<soren> Milestones are... well. milestones. :) It's a point along your development cycle.
<RenatoSilva> milestones don't generate packages for downloading?
<wgrant> Right. They have no real meaning in themselves.
<soren> s/cycle/timeline/ I suppose.
<wgrant> They are just a point in time.
<wgrant> RenatoSilva: Not magically, no.
<soren> RenatoSilva: A milestone does not imply a release, no.
<spiv> An arbitrary point that you assign an arbitrary label to, so you can do things like refer to it in bugs, and create download files for :)
<RenatoSilva> but I have seen downloads like Eclipse-Galileo-M5
<wgrant> RenatoSilva: It's up to the project's managers as to what they want to do.
<wgrant> If they want to have releases named 'Milestone 5', that's up to them.
<wgrant> But you can do whatever you want with milestones.
<spm> .. or karmic koala
<soren> RenatoSilva: A milestone /can/ involve a release. It does not /have/ to.
<RenatoSilva> I thought milestones as worse than RC and better (or equal) than beta
<wgrant> A milestone isn't necessarily a release.
<wgrant> Some projects call their intermediate development snapshots 'Milestone N'. Ubuntu calls them 'Alpha N'. It's just a name.
<soren> RenatoSilva: Figuring out if something is a milestone or a release or whatever has NOTHING to do with the quality.
<soren> RenatoSilva: It's about its function.
<soren> RenatoSilva: A milestone is a point in time. You can target bugs and features for milestones, for instance.
<RenatoSilva> ok
<soren> RenatoSilva: A release is whenever you take what you got and release it. Even if it's alpha, beta, milestone, wibble, wobble, release candidate, final, bugfix, foo, bar, or whatever type of release it is.
<RenatoSilva> but if is release or not does have to do with quality
<soren> NO!
<soren> It still a release.
<RenatoSilva> release stuff must be good , that's why we have e.g. feature freezes!!
<soren> Even if it sucks, you've still released it.
<wgrant> release != release
<wgrant> RenatoSilva: You seem to be talking about a *stable* release. eg. 1.0
<soren> alpha releases are still releases.
<wgrant> Right.
<soren> That's why they have "release" in their name :)
<RenatoSilva> by releasing you assume it's better quality than before :) even if not true :)
<RenatoSilva> wgrant: stable releas eyes
<wgrant> No. That's a stable release.
<soren> Not necessaritly.
<wgrant> Not a release in general.
<RenatoSilva> but usualy release just means stable release
<wgrant> Not in this case.
<spiv> RenatoSilva: not necessarily; sometimes people release known buggy software just for the sake of getting new features tested, or whatever.
<RenatoSilva> unstable releases you call beta or milestone
<wgrant> A Launchpad release could be a stable release. But it could also be an alpha release, a beta release, a release-of-the-day...
<soren> RenatoSilva: The name. does. not. matter.
<RenatoSilva> ok
<soren> RenatoSilva: Again: The quality of the release does not determine whether it's a release or not.
<spiv> RenatoSilva: some projects do nightly releases, where there's no claim regarding quality (maybe it won't even build!), just that it's current.
<RenatoSilva> what's the diff between code release tarball and installer file? is the former source code, or is the latter .exe installers?
<soren> RenatoSilva: Yes, pretty much.
<RenatoSilva> I just mean that --usually-- people use release as short for stable releases, and beta/milestones/candidates for unstable, maybe not in lauchpad ok
<RenatoSilva> soren: how about if I have a zip as install?
<RenatoSilva> soren: what to use?
<soren> What's in the zip
<soren> ?
<soren> Source code?
<RenatoSilva> soren: not an automated installer, but not exactly "the" source code (even if actually there's no bin package -- it's python)
<soren> Don't know.
<RenatoSilva> it is both source code and "bin" package in one
<spiv> RenatoSilva: You're asking about the "file type" Launchpad asks you for?  Just choose whatever will best match your users' expectations.
<RenatoSilva> I'm asking what to fill in
<RenatoSilva> code release tarball or installer file
<RenatoSilva> it's unclear their meanings
<spiv> Well, if you wanted to download this file, which would you expect it to be called?
<spiv> If you're unsure, you may as well just flip a coin :)
<RenatoSilva> I don't know
<RenatoSilva> that's why I ask
<RenatoSilva> ahahhshs
<spiv> Because your users will be unsure too, so it won't make much difference which you choose ;)
 * RenatoSilva doesn't have pidgin's /flip atm :D
<soren> It's kind of hard to give you a good answer when you can't properly explain what that zip file contains.
<RenatoSilva> the bin package
<RenatoSilva> but OH it's not bin, it's python!
<RenatoSilva> so bin == source code
<RenatoSilva> please help me here
<RenatoSilva> https://launchpad.net/moin-solenoid/trunk/2009.8.12
<RenatoSilva> may I change Solenoid Theme 2009.8.12 to just Solenoid Theme
<RenatoSilva> and add all versions there
<RenatoSilva> *currently I have jsut one)
<RenatoSilva> I don't want to create 4 milestones + 4 versions, each one with one single file
<RenatoSilva> may I call the milestones all '2009'?
<RenatoSilva> hum... https://launchpad.net/moin-solenoid/trunk
<RenatoSilva> done
<spm> ** having minor codebrowse issues atm, chasing.... **
<RenatoSilva> thanks everybody
<RenatoSilva> when you fill milestone on bug report, is the bug happening on that milestone or is it planned to be solved at it?
<wgrant> RenatoSilva: The latter.
<RenatoSilva> wgrant: so I always have to deactivate released milestones?
<wgrant> You don't, but it would make sense. Releasing a milestone normally deactivates by default, IIRC.
<RenatoSilva> wgrant: e.g. latest release is 2009.8.18, it already happened
<RenatoSilva> wgrant: I don't have any future milestones in mind, as we say here I "let the life take me anywhere" :)
<RenatoSilva> wgrant: so I must deactivate it...ok thanks!
<RenatoSilva> a series is like CVS branches right?
<lifeless> wgrant: depends on the project actually ;)
<RenatoSilva> the idea it to support old version jsut like in CVS maintenance branches right?
<lifeless> wgrant: scratch that
<lifeless> [I misread]
<RenatoSilva> *is to
<RenatoSilva> the idea is to support old released versions just like in CVS maintenance branches right?
<wgrant> That's one use.
<RenatoSilva> v1, then v2, then oh some peopl still use v1, so we create a v1 maintenance branch for supporting those people
<wgrant> Right.
<RenatoSilva> what other use could series have?
<wgrant> So I have my 1.x branch. It would probably have 1.0a1, 1.0a2, 1.0b1, 1.0rc1, 1.0, 1.1, 1.2 releases.
<wgrant> s/branch/series
<wgrant> That series has my 1.x branch associated.
<RenatoSilva> so series separate major versions?
<wgrant> I don't know.
<wgrant> Whatever the project owner decides.
<wgrant> Some series of releases.
<RenatoSilva> well it seems that it's just maintenance
<wgrant> In most cases, yes.
<RenatoSilva> so I have trunk
<RenatoSilva> I just have to create anotehr series if
<RenatoSilva> someone using old versions convince me of that, right?
<wgrant> You don't ever *have* to. But it is probably a good idea.
<RenatoSilva> maybe I have
<RenatoSilva> becasue how will I deliver the fix for the old version user?
<wgrant> Why do you need a series to do that?
<RenatoSilva> humm, I could just add a new release + download file for that milestone, right?
<wgrant> Right.
<wgrant> But it is a good idea to keep seperate release series, particularly if your project is large.
<RenatoSilva> a bit condfusing
<RenatoSilva> it seems that trunk here is not exactly the same idea of head in cvs
<lifeless> so don't do it
<lifeless> trunk != HEAD
<lifeless> trunk == MAIN
<wgrant> I wouldn't draw analogies to CVS.
<lifeless> trunk.revno == HEAD
<wgrant> CVS is not the best thought out of the world's inventions.
<RenatoSilva> so why does the default description of trunk is this:
<RenatoSilva> The "trunk" series represents the primary line of development rather than a stable release branch. This is sometimes also called MAIN or HEAD.
<RenatoSilva> it is describing maintenance branches
<lifeless> because CVS users are often confused about what CVS does
<spiv> RenatoSilva: because what people call things is not always accurate ;)
<lifeless> and say 'HEAD' when they mean 'MAIN'
<RenatoSilva> yeah, head can mean last rev or main branch
<RenatoSilva> in this case main branch
<lifeless> actually, HEAD never means a branch, except when its misused :)
<lifeless> which is the point ;)
<RenatoSilva> it seems to me that the choice is create maintenance branches as 1) series or 2) personal branches
<RenatoSilva> lifeless: maybe I ask in #cvs later :)
<lifeless> RenatoSilva: you can create series for them
<wgrant> They are different concepts.
<wgrant> A series can be linked to a branch.
<lifeless> if you want folk to find them, I would create a series.
<RenatoSilva> can, not should?
 * wgrant dines.
<lifeless> RenatoSilva: its your project; who are we to say what you should do?
<RenatoSilva> so on a date-based versioning like mine, how would I call the series, by month or year or season or what :) ?
<RenatoSilva> lifeless: ok so I want a coffee with milk please :)
<lifeless> how would you like to call it?
<RenatoSilva> 2009.8.18 is the latest version
<lifeless> will you do maintenance releases ?
<lifeless> so will there be a 2008.8.18.1 ?
<RenatoSilva> likely not, but it's possible
<lifeless> and is 2009.8.18 released from trunk?
<RenatoSilva> lifeless: if someone had a problem, I'd ask him to update to the latest version, and apply the fix on it
<RenatoSilva> I've just created the project from a personal single branch, trunk is just --the-- branch, so yes, 2009.8.18 was released from trunk
<RenatoSilva> lifeless: I just think that new versions are better than old ones, it's not a big project you know
<RenatoSilva> lifeless: so if new versions are desirable, I like to make users migrate to new versions rather than maintaining it...
<lifeless> so why would you want maintenance series ?
<lifeless> if you're not planning on doing maintenance releases...
<RenatoSilva> it's because of my versioning, it's plain, not hierarchical
<RenatoSilva> you can imagine big diffs between 3.4 and 4.6, but not between dates
<RenatoSilva> not --necessarily---
<lifeless> so?
<RenatoSilva> imagine I'm using normal versioning 1.2.3, where .3 is maintenance, so I'd create trunk, 1.0, 1.1 and 1.2 series right?
<RenatoSilva> then in series 1.0 I'd have all 1.0.x milestones
<RenatoSilva> and in 1.1 all 1.1.x ms and so forth right
<RenatoSilva> but how about this:
<RenatoSilva> you put all milestones and releases under trunk series anyway
<RenatoSilva> and just add a milestone + release for each new version you want to deliver (new features from latest version, fixes for old versions)
<RenatoSilva> so my point is, if you can put it all in one place (series), what is the specific technical reason/advantage of cerating other separate series?
<RenatoSilva> other than having a nice view of major versions
<NET||abuse> huh?? tried pulling down launchpad rocketfuel-setup ,, bzr says needs version 1.16, i only have 1.13, but i'm on intrepid.. is this normal?
<Peng_> NET||abuse: Bazaar has a quick release schedule, and Ubuntu doesn't package new major releases.
<NET||abuse> dang, so i need to add the specific up to date ppa repo?
<Peng_> NET||abuse: You can do that. It's no big deal. http://bazaar-vcs.org/Download
<NET||abuse> is it safe enough to dot hat considering several other projects i'm working on have been on 1.13, and i need to keep supporting.
<wgrant> NET||abuse: there's a bit of a bug in rocketfuel-setup at the moment. If it ends up erroring, poke me and I'll tell you how to work around it.
<Peng_> NET||abuse: Bazaar's good about backwards compatibility.
<wgrant> It's excellent about it, in fact. It's perfectly safe to upgrade.
<wgrant> It won't silently make your other projects incompatible with older versions.
<NET||abuse> ahh, well that's good.
<NET||abuse> :)
<NET||abuse> just getting that key installed now.
<NET||abuse> ..., hmm, taking it's time getting key.
<RenatoSilva> thanks everybody
<NET||abuse> ahh, keyserver down?
<NET||abuse> anyone else able to get the ppa key? http://keyserver.ubuntu.com:11371/pks/lookup?search=0xECE2800BACF028B31EE3657CD702BF6B8C6C1EFD&op=index
<NET||abuse> just timing out for me.
<wgrant> NET||abuse: Indeed. Let's poke a sysadmin.
<NET||abuse> cool
<NET||abuse> can i watch? like waking bears in winter.. :P
<NET||abuse> you prod them and their mass arrises in a blur of hair and rage...
<NET||abuse> at least that's what the sysadmin in my last job was like.
<NET||abuse> in fairness he was a great guy.
<NET||abuse> anyway.. blah blah... keyserver work dang it.
<wgrant> NET||abuse: For now use http://pool.sks-keyservers.net:11371/pks/lookup?search=0xECE2800BACF028B31EE3657CD702BF6B8C6C1EFD&op=index instead.
<wgrant> Yay for keyserver networks.
<NET||abuse> hmm, ok
<NET||abuse> that's taking it's time too,, ahhh there it goes.
<NET||abuse> hmm, had to remove bzr-rebase{a} bzr-svn{a} python-subvertpy{u
<wgrant> NET||abuse: There are new versions of those around in PPAs, if you need them. The versions in the Ubuntu archive use the API of the older bzr version, so won't work with the new bzr.
<NET||abuse> hmmm bzr: Depends: python (< 2.6) but 2.6.2-0ubuntu1 is installed
<NET||abuse> yeh, i can't get bzr to update beyond 1.13.1
<wgrant> NET||abuse: There's no python2.6 in Intrepid...
<NET||abuse> .... in interpid? hmm, where's my python coming ffrom then???
<NET||abuse> wait,, i'm on jaunty, not intrepid.
<NET||abuse> haha.
<NET||abuse> sorry
<NET||abuse> still.
<wgrant> NET||abuse: What was the line you added to your sources.list?
<wgrant> I suspect if you replace 'intrepid' with 'jaunty' there, it will work.
<NET||abuse> deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/bzr/ppa/ubuntu intrepid main
<NET||abuse> yes, it would..
<NET||abuse> :P
<NET||abuse> i'm tired.. long weekend.. barcamp took it out of me.
<NET||abuse> brain sore,, alchimahol hurt it.
<wgrant> Heh.
<NET||abuse> hmm,,,, now    bzr-svn: Depends: bzr (< 1.18~) but 1.18-1~bazaar1~jaunty1 is installed.
<NET||abuse> i'm using bzr-svn for one project i work on from time to time.
<wgrant> There's a PPA for that.
 * wgrant finds.
<NET||abuse> haha,
<NET||abuse> yikes
<NET||abuse> too many ppa's
<wgrant> NET||abuse: In fact, there's a new version of bzr-svn in the ~bzr PPA. What happens if you try that?
<wgrant> (a simple 'apt-get install bzr-svn' should do it)
<NET||abuse> i've been trying that,, no joy.
<wgrant> Hmmmmmmm.
<NET||abuse> one sec,, i was using aptitude , not apt-get
<NET||abuse> and can't try right now,, launchpad is downloading.
<wgrant> NET||abuse: No, that's fine.
<wgrant> NET||abuse: Looks like that version of bzr-svn is still too out of date. Argh.
<NET||abuse> tumm teeee tummm. gonna take some time yh :)
<NET||abuse> oh, bzr-svn is out of lockstep with latest bzr.
<wgrant> Oh yes. It's a fairly big tree.
<wgrant> It'll have to download a couple of hundred megabytes.
<NET||abuse> yikes..
<wgrant> And then lots of dependencies after that.
<wgrant> (although it will probably crash before it finishes grabbing the deps; that's easy to fix, fortunately)
<NET||abuse> anyway to mirror that, i'm setting up on my local machine to play, then i'm gonna installl on a vm test development platform for configuration testing.. then again on live development machine,, i'd say the test dev platform is gonna require 3 or more runthroughs to check out fully.
<NET||abuse> arrg?? libapache2-mod-php5 is to be removed?
<wgrant> What are you planning to do with LP?
<wgrant> Not sure about that one. I don't have PHP installed.
<NET||abuse> working on using it as a code repository in work, and tempt some of the development teams into trying it out.
<NET||abuse> they're svn centric
<wgrant> You can't easily do that. See the fourth paragraph of https://dev.launchpad.net/LaunchpadLicense
<NET||abuse> so gonna coax them in to bzr and launchpad, set them up with heavy checkout's centralized branch workflow to start, in a shared repository so they can branch locally for local feature developments
<NET||abuse> wgrant, just change the logo's?
<wgrant> NET||abuse: All of the images.
<NET||abuse> well, i'll have to try if i look to deploy for actual dev team use.
<NET||abuse> i'm usually pretty good at filtering through images on sites. i just need to strip out the image files from the launchpad source and re-create them
<NET||abuse> i have a good deal of experience doing things like that with turbo gears or django sites.
<NET||abuse> that's a bit of a pain in the butt.. can't use launchpad in that way by default..
<NET||abuse> would be nice to submit an image and icons set that "knock yourself out" licence as an option for launchpad.
<wgrant> Part of the point of Launchpad is that there's only one. Much of its value is in the cross-project collaboration possibilities.
<wgrant> So running your own is really not a good idea.
<NET||abuse> how so?
<NET||abuse> it's a nice interface to a project management, pqm and code repository backend, how is that ever not useful in some way?
<wgrant> It's never not useful. It's just a lot better for everybody if people use launchpad.net.
<NET||abuse> and you can't always push your code up to 3rd party hosted repositories.. there's times when you just have to be a bit private with your work until you get the right releases.
<wgrant> Launchpad has private branches.
<NET||abuse> sure, but company policy often doesn't allow for relying on externally hosted systems.
<NET||abuse> it's not a question of the integrity of the code being compromised, so much as the business case being exposed, the terms of agreements on code that is included, etc etc..
<maxb> Likewise. I'd love to get people at work using Launchpad Code, but no one will ever go for putting company code in the hands of a third party
<maxb> I do wonder how long it'll be before someone starts creating a do-as-you-like image set to overlay on the Launchpad sourcecode.
<james_w> how can you tell whether a task is series targeted in the API?
<james_w> (bug task)
<maxb> james_w: I saw something like that on https://help.launchpad.net/API/launchpadlib/code_snippets
<james_w> urgh
<james_w> thanks, but I don't think that will work
<james_w> or at least not in a way I would be happy with
<Phurl> hi guys
<Phurl> we have a bunch of old strings from the albanian sq open office
<Phurl> this is a resource we have been fighting for a long time
<Phurl> and now we need to merge them into the latest version
<Phurl> can you help us with that?
<Phurl> https://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/openoffice.org/+question/83410
<Phurl> https://answers.launchpad.net/openoffice/+question/83017
<maxb> Phurl: Today's launchpad help contact is US-based, you might have to wait a bit for him to wake up :-)
<Phurl> nice
<Phurl> no problem.
<Phurl> i have been waiting since july for this source, now we have the source. I can wait for another month to get it imported properlty
<thekorn> james_w, maybe checking all bug_task urls for something like: re.search("\/ubuntu\/([^\/]+\/\+source)", task_url)
<james_w> thekorn: yeah, something like that would be a little more palatable
<james_w> the issue is more a logic flow one I think from looking at it a bit more
<james_w> we want the non-series targeted task usually, but if there is a task targeted to the current development series we have to use that as you can't modify the status of the non-targeted task
<james_w> which is all a bit tricky to work out as you loop over bug.bug_tasks
<james_w> I was using related_tasks for that
<james_w> which works
<james_w> but also is non-empty when there is a Debian task
<james_w> so it isn't the final answe
<thekorn> hmm, yeah, I see
<wgrant> james_w: ISTM that you want to expose the conjoined master on bug_task.
<james_w> wgrant: that would be great
<mariuz> hello , how do i a change a duplicate ?
<mariuz> #386087 is marked as duplicate for bug #60823 but is my mistake it should be #260823
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 60823 in xorg "Please provide xlibs compatibility package" [Wishlist,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/60823
<wgrant> mariuz: Which browser are you using?
<mariuz> arora browser - webkit based
<wgrant> mariuz: That's what I guessed. The link is mysteriously missing in WebKit at the moment.
<mariuz> i use bugs.edge.launchpad.net
<mariuz> ok thanks
<wgrant> mariuz: Add '/+duplicate' to the end of the bug URL.
<Laney> Is there a way to point bugs for our ubuntu-dev-tools project at the Ubuntu package?
<Laney> fiddling the remote bug tracker info somehow
<intellectronica> Laney: the short answer: no, there's no way to do that
<Laney> it's a bit weird that you can't file a bug against the project directly, but you *can* add an upstream task
<intellectronica> why is it weird?
<Laney> it makes the upstream bug page look like it's in use
<intellectronica> yeah, i agree that we don't make the distinction clear enough
<geser> Laney: hmm, interesting. I wonder how bug 255099 got filed in the first place as I added the package task later
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 255099 in ubuntu-dev-tools "requestsync: Doesn't wait for gpg command to exit" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/255099
<Laney> it would be cool if you could register remote bug trackers and then bugs.lp/project acts as a window into the specified remote tracker
<Laney> geser: did we once have it enabled?
<geser> I don't know, I never looked (or changed) at the project settings
<Laney> seems not to be a problem nowadays anyway
<Laney> anyway I guess my idea requires push support, but it should be possible currently for remotes in other parts of LP
<flacoste> mrevell-lunch, henninge: why do we have unpublished blogs post on the edge home page?
<flacoste> henninge: and why aren't all the featured projects displayed?
<henninge> flacoste: the latter is fixed in this branch that I was going to as r-c for anyway ;-)
<henninge> https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~henninge/launchpad/bug-433824/+merge/12152
<henninge> flacoste: the rist is common practice AFAIK because the blog posts are (still) hard coded into the template.
<henninge> s/rist/first/
<mrevell> flacoste: Hmm, normally the "what's new" would update on edge before the related blog posts were ready as the blog posts would go live at the time of the release. I guess they're more prominent in this case. I'm hoping next time round the blog posts on the home page will be  a live feed from the blog itself.
<flacoste> mrevell: ok
<flacoste> henninge: talk to bac for your r-c :-)
<henninge> flacoste: ah, right ;-)
<flacoste> i only deal with r-c this week if bac is unavailable :-)
<henninge> np
<bigon> is it expected that https://edge.launchpad.net/~telepathy/+archive/ppa/+sourcepub/748039/+listing-archive-extra get no css and stuff like that?
<bac> henninge: please add me as a reviewer with 'release-critical' as the type and i'll look at it shortly
<henninge> bac: thanks
<noodles775> bigon: it's a macro that is normally only used to fill a segment of a page when you expand one of the packages at: https://edge.launchpad.net/~telepathy/+archive/ppa/+packages
<noodles775> bigon: If the javascript code didn't load in time for the expander to work (ie. you were super fast with your mouse ;) ), it will link to that page.
<noodles775> bigon: Pls let us know if you actually have a link to that page somewhere on LP - that would not be expected.
<bigon> no no it was on a expender
<bigon> but that kind of page is interesting to follow the build of a pkg
<NET||abuse> in the install i get bzr: ERROR: Connection closed: Unexpected end of message. Please check connectivity and permissions, and report a bug if problems persist.
<NET||abuse> looks like it's when it's trying to connect to bazaar.launchpad.net after the rocketfuel install in mostly done.
<NET||abuse> it's had just added bazaar.launchpad.net to the rsa list of known hosts.
<NET||abuse> is this a known issue?
<NET||abuse> rocketfuel-get seems to do something.
<NET||abuse> updating, or fetching revisions: Inserting stream
<maxb> NET||abuse: My first thought would be local connectivity problems. Eliminate that first by trying some basic bzr commands
<happyaron> is keyserver.ubuntu.com down?
<happyaron> oh, it works now, but so slow ...
<flacoste> danilos: are you still sitting on a blueprint branch?
<flacoste> danilos: specification-superseding still has your name attached to it, but it didn't land?
<doctormo> Is there any way to manage SSH keys through the launchpadlib API?
<geser> kfogel: just curious, do you know how long it will take till the API doc on edge gets the changes to generate the toc? it would be really helpful to have it there
<kfogel> geser: next release I think (I was just looking at that last night and almost filed a bug about it, then I realized that the live launchpadlib is probably only updated with Launchpad itself.  Fortunately the rollout is very soon now!)
* EdwinGrubbs changed the topic of #launchpad to: Launchpad is now open sourced: https://dev.launchpad.net/ | Help contact: EdwinGrubbs | Join https://launchpad.net/~launchpad-users | Channel logs: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | #launchpad-dev is the developer channel
<flacoste> barry: don't forget to sign up for speciations-index on https://dev.launchpad.net/VersionThreeDotO/BlueprintsConversion
<barry> flacoste: done
<Phurl> Your question #83410 on openoffice.org in ubuntu changed:
<Phurl> https://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/openoffice.org/+question/83410
<Phurl>    Status: Open => Answered
<Phurl> Vihar proposed the following answer:
<Phurl> I'm bad so I'll tell You this: helping Albanians is helping the evil.
<Phurl> WTF?!
<garyvdm> Hi - https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/jaunty/+source/merkaartor/+filebug?no-redirect  redirects me anyway....
<garyvdm> How can I log a bug ... :-(
<Phurl> hi all
<Phurl> can someone tell me how do deal with this ?
<maxb> garyvdm: Where did you get that URL from? The problem is the "jaunty" - you file bugs on a package in a distro, not a package in a series
<maxb> But of course, it would be better that LP did something more sensible than kick you to the ubuntu wiki page
<garyvdm> maxb - I typed it my self... I want to suggest a sru
<maxb> garyvdm: Well, don't make up invalid URLs then :-)
<garyvdm> maxb: let me try with outh the jaunty...
<Phurl> https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/434100
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 434100 in launchpad "Vihar is being offensive" [Undecided,New]
<garyvdm> maxb: actually - I did not type it, I clicked on the report bug button on https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/jaunty/+source/merkaartor/ ...
<maxb> Phurl: You might like restate your questions from earlier and ping the help contact who is now listed in the channel topic
<Phurl> ok
<Phurl> thanks
<Phurl> EdwinGrubbs can you please help us import some language strings into launchpad?
<Phurl> <Phurl> https://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/openoffice.org/+question/83410
<Phurl> <Phurl> https://answers.launchpad.net/openoffice/+question/83017
<Phurl> thanks
<EdwinGrubbs> Phurl: let me find you someone who knows more about translations than I do
<Phurl> thanks
<Phurl> it is an old translation
<EdwinGrubbs> danilos, henninge: can you answer Phurl's question?
<Phurl> but maybe we can reuse some of its strings
<Phurl> or at least import it
<maxb> garyvdm: Fair enough - it's a small bug in Launchpad that it doesn't preserve the ?no-redirect as it redirects from the ubuntu/jaunty to the ubuntu URL, I guess
<Phurl> i think that alot of it can be resused
<garyvdm> maxb: Should i log a bug?
<maxb> Yes please
<EdwinGrubbs> jtv: Can you answer Phurl's question above?
<Phurl> jtv, https://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/openoffice.org/+question/83410 https://answers.launchpad.net/openoffice/+question/83017
<jtv> EdwinGrubbs: UTC+7.
<Phurl> hi jtv
<Phurl> when you are awake....
<jtv> Phurl: I guess I am...  First thing to do is to report a troll.
<Phurl> yes you mean the bulgarian?
<Phurl> or me :)
<jtv> Phurl: I'll leave that to you.  :)  Hang on, I'm going to talk to some people.
<jtv> EdwinGrubbs, Phurl: I'm not sure but I think these questions are for the OpenOffice.org package maintainers.
<Phurl> yes
<Phurl> they might be
<Phurl> but i was wondering if launchpad could do anything smart and easy with those strings
<Phurl> cause we started the translation in launchpad
<Phurl> and it would be nice to be able to just import those strings
<Phurl> we are looking into the ooo route
<Phurl> but it will be alot of work
<Phurl> is there no magic import function? ;)
<jtv> Phurl: I think I'm missing something...  why won't a normal import work?
<Phurl> well this is the code from ooo v2
<Phurl> and i want to find a way to match those strings / ids onto the new version
<Phurl> 3.10
<Phurl> jtatum,
<Phurl> jtv
<atrus> launchpad.net has been returning errors for me ALOT for the past several week or so. known issues?
<Phurl> jtv, i guess i am going to try and do this myself
<jtv> Phurl: it may be because of my connection problem, but I still don't know what the problem is...  can't you just upload the tarball?
<Phurl> a tarball?
<Phurl> jtv, i have a bunch of po files
<Phurl> i checked them in
<jtv> Phurl: it's limited for distro packages, but we do have upload facilities.
<Phurl> ok
<jtv> Oh, for distro packages it needs to be done per template, can't be done for the whole package at once.  :(
<Phurl> ok
<jtv> So have a look at the Launchpad Translations Tools.  Hang on, I'm digging them up.
<Phurl> ok
<jtv> Phurl: try this: https://launchpad.net/lp-translations-tools
<Phurl> ok
<Phurl> i will
<Amaranth> Did anyone else lose the button to edit public/private status of bugs on edge? I am trying to do bug triage so have my stock replies userscript loaded but it shouldn't effect that area
<Amaranth> To try without it I have to restart the browser (chrome) and this many launchpad tabs would take a long time to reload so I was hoping someone could confirm/deny they are seeing this
<james_w> I have it
<Amaranth> Alright, dang scripts :P
<Amaranth> james_w: what URL does it go to? so I can just do it manually for now
<Amaranth> +private or something?
<james_w> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kpackagekit/+bug/433187/+secrecy
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 433187 in kpackagekit "kpackagekit notice "gdb" update as untrusted package " [Undecided,Incomplete]
<james_w> I think
<james_w> it actually links to ++form++ due to js
<Amaranth> hrm
<Phurl> jtv, I got the autotranslate going
<Phurl> for 3.10
<jtv> Phurl: autotranslate?
<Phurl> yes
<Phurl> poedit
<Phurl> i merged the cat
<Phurl> then imported it into poedit
<Phurl> and now i am autotranslating the 3.10 with the 2.0 strings
<jtv> Oh, you mean you're importing 2.0 translations into 3.10 translations?
<jtv> Is that on the OpenOffice.org ubuntu package, or on a separate project?
<Phurl> i got it
<Phurl> jtv, i have now 30 000 strings translated for 3.10
<Phurl> just pushing the version now
<jtv> Phurl: wow, I never get over the size of that thing
<Phurl> god
<Phurl> https://code.launchpad.net/~kosova/shqipoffice/Handover
<Phurl> just pushed, will be active in a second
<Peng_> Are there any known issues with mirroring + stacking + format changes?
<RenatoSilva> Guys how to sync two pos where one is the master po? I mean, I don't want a two-way sync. It seems that gettext does not allow to do this.
<MTecknology> Does edwin grubbs come on irc?
<MTecknology> if so, what's his nick?
<MTecknology> EdwinGrubbs: nevermind - I found you
<MTecknology> EdwinGrubbs: You think I'm an Ubuntu developer?
<EdwinGrubbs> MTecknology: Well, I saw that you had an ubuntu.com email address. Sorry for the assumption.
<MTecknology> EdwinGrubbs: I enjoyed seeing that
<MTecknology> I've been working toward that goal actually
<MTecknology> I was the right person to assign it to ; just had to say hi :p
<EdwinGrubbs> ok, cool
<awilkins> ELFCLASS64 ; is LP 64-bit server only?
<awilkins> I'm getting ImportError: /home/adrian/launchpad/lp-branches/devel/lib/_lsprof.so: wrong ELF class: ELFCLASS64
<Daviey> hmm.. is bzr/lp poorly?
<Daviey> bzr: ERROR: xmlrpc protocol error connecting to https://xmlrpc.edge.launchpad.net/bazaar/: 503 Service Unavailable
<Daviey> (after bzr push)
<maxb> awilkins: Hi. You might want to hop over to #launchpad-dev for help with LP development
<Daviey> Are any LP admins around to check that error ^^?
<maxb> But no, it's not 64-bit only. I'm rather puzzled how you managed to end up with any 64bit binaries if you are not using a 64bit machine!!
<Daviey> hmm
<Daviey> Is LP planned to be down?
<awilkins> maxb:
<awilkins> maxb: Ta
<maxb> Daviey: It seems alive to me
<Daviey> maxb: Hmm, seemed to be temp fail.. odd
<Daviey> tried it on two seperated networks :/
<JBLime> Question regarding permissions for translators working on Limewire projects... Without statring our own group (we are currently using the main LP translators group), can we regulate the permissions of the users, i.e. if they have the ability to overwrite the existing translations instead of only making a suggestion?
<JBLime> I hope that's clear - I just took over the project and am learning my way around the interface. Thank you!
<Amaranth> btw, the URL bit I was looking for before was +secrecy
<Amaranth> it doesn't seem to show up in epiphany even though I have no user scripts there
<Amaranth> (really late)
<wgrant> Amaranth: Right, that icon is missing in WebKit-based browsers.
<Amaranth> That's all I have :P
<Amaranth> Well, I do have that broken one that doesn't work with keyboard shortcuts too
<Amaranth> The little yellow icon shows up then goes away :/
<bac> Amaranth: as wgrant said that's a known issue for webkit browsers.  it's so annoying that it teases you then disappears
#launchpad 2009-09-22
<davidstrauss> abentley: ping
<davidstrauss> lifeless: ping
<lifeless> hi
<lifeless> 'sup?
<davidstrauss> lifeless: I need a bit of help with this issue: https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/83372
<davidstrauss> lifeless: Not sure who to escalate this stuff to
<davidstrauss> lifeless: He seems to have a misplaced sense of entitlement about solely administering and neglecting drupal-projects
<lifeless> spm: are you here today ?
<lifeless> also EdwinGrubbs hi
<spm> lifeless: yup
<lifeless> davidstrauss: you're drupal upstream aren't you ?
<davidstrauss> lifeless: yes
<davidstrauss> lifeless: In almost every possible definition
<lifeless> spm: we have an upstream ( davidstrauss ) wanting to garden the project group lp:drupal-projects, but getting pushback for some unclear reason
<lifeless> MTecknology: hi
<lifeless> MTecknology: are you around?
<spm> davidstrauss: heyo
<davidstrauss> spm: hi :-)
<davidstrauss> spm: Not sure why I'm getting all this pushback: https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/83372
<lifeless> I'd be inclined to add a group and put david and MTecknology both in it
<spm> lifeless: great minds; that was my exact thinking.
<lifeless> if the concern is that MTecknology won't be able to do things he finds important to do
<davidstrauss> lifeless: MTecknology already created such a group
<davidstrauss> lifeless: MTecknology has done exactly nothing with drupal-projects since its creation
<davidstrauss> lifeless: At the same time, I didn't request for him to be removed as an admin, either
<lifeless> davidstrauss: there are two things - getting you access, dropping MTecknology's access. the former is (I think) uncontentious
<lifeless> the latter, well thats a totally different argument.
<davidstrauss> lifeless: I'm not really sure why there's pushback
<davidstrauss> lifeless: It totally caught me off-guard
<lifeless> I think you should have admin access, for sure - you're active, you're upstream, you're interested.
<davidstrauss> lifeless: I'm happy keeping MTecknology as an admin as long as he doesn't try to undo stuff I do out of vengeance.
<spm> hey Ursinha!
<lifeless> davidstrauss: for future reference, the Help contact in the channel topic is a good point of call
<Ursinha> :)
<Ursinha> hey spm :)
<davidstrauss> lifeless: ah, thank you
<lifeless> edwin assigned it to MTecknology in good faith, but in case of confusion (like here), coming to IRC and grabbing $current_value will work
<davidstrauss> lifeless: :-)
<lifeless> they can also grab the current losa if it needs access escalation etcc
<RenatoSilva> why can't we add multiple releases to the same milestone? ok it does not amke sense right?
<RenatoSilva> each release was a milestone
<RenatoSilva> not all milestones are released
<RenatoSilva> is the above ^ the reason for having separate ms and rel?
<spm> davidstrauss: https://edge.launchpad.net/~drupal-projects/+members
<spm> you're now a co-admin of that group which in turn masters the project group
<davidstrauss> spm: thanks
<RenatoSilva> why isn't  release  a --status-- of a milestone rather than a child?
<RenatoSilva> sorry if I'm misunderstooding anything
<spm> I've not (yet) dnoe an exhaustive check of the perms thru the tree as it were, but if that doesn't cut the mustard, just ping me back. I'll be around for the next.. oh 8-9 hours :-)
<wgrant> RenatoSilva: It is basically a status.
<RenatoSilva> wgrant: hummm....
<RenatoSilva> wgrant: "cerate release" sounds weird then
<RenatoSilva> wgrant: those labels in series page: create ms, create rel, could be create ms, release ms
<wgrant> RenatoSilva: It is, for all intents and purposes, a status. Do not worry about which particular verb is used.
<RenatoSilva> wgrant: how about the suggestion
<wgrant> I do not know.
<RenatoSilva> well, I think it's clearer, then suggestion was given :)
<RenatoSilva> * the
<wgrant> Possibly. File a bug?
 * RenatoSilva suffers of typo syndrom
<RenatoSilva> wgrant: maybe I'll file a bug, thanks
<RenatoSilva> thanks guys
<davidstrauss> EdwinGrubbs: How can I get additional bug trackers listed?
<lifeless> davidstrauss: I think you need to file a question :)
<davidstrauss> lifeless: I will. :-)
<wgrant> You don't need to.
<wgrant> You can create them yourself.
 * wgrant hunts.
<wgrant> You can do it directly at https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/bugs/bugtrackers/+newbugtracker, but they're normally created automatically when somebody adds a bugwatch.
<wgrant> davidstrauss: ^^
<davidstrauss> wgrant: What if the type isn't supported?
<wgrant> davidstrauss: Then you tell LP that bugs are tracked somewhere else, and hope that bug #392339 gets fixed.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 392339 in malone "Launchpad couldn't support drupal bug tracker" [Low,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/392339
<davidstrauss_> I've looked all over the web, and I haven't found an answer to this historical question: what is the relationship of the name "Malone" to Launchpad? I remember it being far more commonly mentioned in LP's earliest days.
<wgrant> Malone is the old name for Launchpad Bugs.
<wgrant> It should be gone now, except for the name of the Launchpad Bugs project.
<davidstrauss_> ah, ok
<davidstrauss_> "Malone" did always sound kind of frumpy ;-)
<lifeless> 'bugsy malone'
<davidstrauss_> lifeless: Thank you. This finally makes sense.
<lifeless> davidstrauss_: :)
<MTecknology> lifeless: you around?
<wscc> test
<spm> wscc: successful test :-)
<wscc> spm: thx
<wscc> spm: i am using a highly experimental irc client
<lifeless> MTecknology: hi
<MTecknology> lifeless: can I talk in private?
<lifeless> sure, though if its about drupal-projects you probably want to be talking with spm
<MTecknology> spm: can i?
<spm> MTecknology: sure
* EdwinGrubbs changed the topic of #launchpad to: Launchpad is now open sourced: https://dev.launchpad.net/ | Help contact: - | Join https://launchpad.net/~launchpad-users | Channel logs: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | #launchpad-dev is the developer channel
<davidstrauss_> spm and MTecknology: Why is this discussion happening off the record?
<lifeless> davidstrauss: I don't know, but I'd give spm & MTecknology a chance to talk before stressing.
<davidstrauss> lifeless: Well, forgive me for being a little miffed that MTecknology has taken it upon himself to demote me again.
<lifeless> davidstrauss: oh, you got removed from the team?
<davidstrauss> lifeless: He dropped me as an admin of the team
<lifeless> davidstrauss: ok; I forgive you for being a little miffed :). Seriously though, give spm a chance
<davidstrauss> lifeless: I'm sure he was worried I'd be as petty as he's proven and demote him.
<MTecknology> lifeless: he's in the team - not admin
<MTecknology> spm and I are just going to chat - I had a call
<davidstrauss> MTecknology: No, admin. I need the ability add additional members.
<davidstrauss> MTecknology: You are not the Drupal project.
<davidstrauss> MTecknology: Nor am I, but at least I'm willing to share access.
<lifeless> davidstrauss: MTecknology: give spm a chance to talk with MTecknology; that may be surprisingly useful.
<lifeless> after that, sure, argue away ;)
<RenatoSilva> I have a .po file and I want to use Launchpad translations, but I need a .pot file. Is it just about s/msgstr ".*"/msgstr "" and rename .po to .pot?
<lifeless> no
<lifeless> well, I guess you could. How did you end up with a .po and not pot?
<lifeless> you should have xgettext or similar in your build system
<wscc> i tried to get pot with a PO once but my dealer only takes cash
<RenatoSilva> lifeless: I don't scan my code. They are just 10 messages, so I generated the po directly. Actually I didn't even noted or cared that .pot files exist (well, there's a background history that doesn't matter now)
<lifeless> you need a po per language
<RenatoSilva> lifeless: what matters is that the po is loaded and used
<RenatoSilva> lifeless: and that there's only one translation
<lifeless> RenatoSilva: clearly you want to change that now
<RenatoSilva> so I need that .pot now, and I wonder how to generate it, may I paste my po here to know how the pot would look like?
<RenatoSilva> I just want to generate that .pot
<RenatoSilva> I'm reading the wiki, I'm on the import from branch part
<lifeless> xgettext
<RenatoSilva> I'll have to reboot
<lifeless> its not X11
<lifeless> you should read about it
<RenatoSilva> mingw's getext package ends up with .lzma and I can't open it even with 7z
<RenatoSilva> I'm on windows
<RenatoSilva> anyway, may I choose a path like /translations/domain.pot?
<RenatoSilva> or i18n/domain.pot
<RenatoSilva> the wiki is unclear about that
<lifeless> domain should be the name of your project
<RenatoSilva> for internal reasons the po file has its own namoing scheme: it is named pt-br_solenoid.Theme.po
<RenatoSilva> pt-br_xxx --> a pseudo language
<RenatoSilva> real language + suffix
<RenatoSilva> and the domain is theme
<RenatoSilva> anyway it is lang.domain.po
<RenatoSilva> will lp recognize lang_xx.domain as a valid domain?
<lifeless> if you want this app to be able to be installed on unix systems, you'll need a name which won't collide in /usr/share/gettext/ or whever they go
<RenatoSilva> I don't want
<RenatoSilva> I don't need
<lifeless> if you don't care about that,call it whatever you want
<RenatoSilva> so lp will recognize domain as pt-br_solenoid.Theme, and template name will be pt-br-solenoid.Theme?
<lifeless> I don't know
 * RenatoSilva reading https://help.launchpad.net/Translations/ImportingFromBazaarBranches
<RenatoSilva> unclear docs btw :( a bit confusing imho
<RenatoSilva> Is this a .pot? http://pastie.org/625509, I just modified the .po here: http://pastie.org/625508
<RenatoSilva> when someone translates using lp, how do the translations get into the code???
<RenatoSilva> hwo to know if your pot imports from branch failed?
<thumper> jtv: ^^^
<jtv> RenatoSilva: take a look at your import queue
<jtv> thumper: thanks for the heads up
<RenatoSilva> jtv: it should show there immediately?
<jtv> RenatoSilva: successfully imported entries get cleaned up after a few days, but failed ones hang around for much longer so you get the chance to see them.
<jtv> RenatoSilva: when you commit, depending on how busy the system is, the files you edited should start showing up in a few minutes as entries on the queue.
<RenatoSilva> jtv: import queue: There are no entries that match this filtering.  :(
<jtv> Then the files never made it into the queue.  :(
<RenatoSilva> any known max delay for showing  there?
<jtv> RenatoSilva: do you have a URL for me, so I can see if I can spot any reasons why it might fail?
<RenatoSilva> branch URL?
<RenatoSilva> https://code.launchpad.net/~renatosilva/moin-solenoid/trunk
<jtv> preferably a URL for the release series
<RenatoSilva> yes I mean series
<jtv> But this page should link to there
<RenatoSilva> https://code.launchpad.net/moin-solenoid/trunk
<RenatoSilva> hum something is showing now...
<RenatoSilva> hum the pot was imported, it was you? thanks!
<RenatoSilva> now only pt-BR.po is missing
<RenatoSilva> what is 'needs review' for a po file? I need to approve the translation, or lp folks?
<RenatoSilva> when it's approved (by lp?) the translations will automatically fill in the pt_BR fileds in translation page?
<wgrant> RenatoSilva: A Launchpad Translations developer needs to review it.
<RenatoSilva> wgrant: can't I get into that group and review myself?
<wgrant> RenatoSilva: No.
<RenatoSilva> wgrant: hum it's just about a manual check right? how long does it take usually?
<wgrant> Presumably however long it takes the relevant people to notice.
<RenatoSilva> wow! tranlsation suggestions are just amazing!
<jtv> RenatoSilva: nice to hear you think so.  :-)
<jtv> My connection's lousy today for some reason, but am looking into your imports.
<RenatoSilva> ah ok thanks!
<spm> davidstrauss: MTecknology: David, Michael and myself have agreed that we'll reinstate your admin access to the drupal project group; to share management of same.
<spm> davidstrauss: MTecknology: We've agreed that we'll see how this goes for a week and adjust accordingly from there based on needs.
<davidstrauss> spm: OK, thanks
<MTecknology> daub: I'd like us to discuss any changes we make to this and work as an actual group in this respect.
<MTecknology> davidstrauss: *
<davidstrauss> MTecknology: sure
<davidstrauss> MTecknology: I don't have any immediate changes. I took care of most of them earlier today.
<davidstrauss> MTecknology: I'm happy to discuss revising any of the text.
<MTecknology> davidstrauss: I removed the images and merged the text we both came up with.
<davidstrauss> MTecknology: Why did you remove the images?
<MTecknology> Because I don't want any room for licensing issues to affect the projects it holds. I'm more concerned about the implications if could have with d.o/lp.
<davidstrauss> MTecknology: The logo is GPL-licensed
<MTecknology> not the whole thing
<MTecknology> only the small icon - and the license has change a few times which makes me uneasy about using it
<davidstrauss> MTecknology: What do you mean "only the small icon"?
<davidstrauss> MTecknology: The vector graphics for the Druplicon (the blue logo) are GPL'd as long as I can remember
<davidstrauss> MTecknology: http://drupal.org/node/9068
<MTecknology> This is not gpl - http://drupal.org/sites/all/themes/bluebeach/logos/drupal.org.png
<davidstrauss> MTecknology: Correct, but I never used that.
<davidstrauss> MTecknology: The Drupal.org theme is not freely licensed, but the Druplicon itself is.
<davidstrauss> MTecknology: Though one *might* argue that even that graphic is GPL on the basis of derivative work
<davidstrauss> MTecknology: I don't understand your objection
 * tonyyarusso would suggest that if you're unsure of something's licensing, you could ask the license holder
<MTecknology> Who is not online
<davidstrauss> MTecknology: You use the Druplicon in the logo for this super-project: MTecknology:
<MTecknology> hm?
<tonyyarusso> MTecknology: E-mail exists too.
<davidstrauss> MTecknology: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu-drupal
<tonyyarusso> although either way, this probably belongs in #ubuntu-drupal instead
<MTecknology> tonyyarusso: not really actually
<tonyyarusso> how so?
<MTecknology> davidstrauss: Can you just let me talk to dries?
<davidstrauss> MTecknology: Dries is not the holder of the logo
<davidstrauss> MTecknology: http://drupal.org/druplicon
<tonyyarusso> davidstrauss: do you know who the holder of that theme is?
<davidstrauss> tonyyarusso: The Drupal.org Infrastructure Team, which includes me
<davidstrauss> tonyyarusso: It's jointly held. No one creator.
<tonyyarusso> gotcha
<MTecknology> bbiab
<davidstrauss> I don't understand why the Drupal.org theme is a concern here.
 * tonyyarusso doesn't know the issue at hand really yet - maybe can glean from scrollback
<davidstrauss> All I asked was why MTecknology removed the logos from drupal-projects. He said it was licensing issues. I pointed out that the Druplicon (the logo I posted) is GPL. And then he pointed to the theme on drupal.org.
<micahg> ok guys, this discussion has been going on long enough in this channel
<micahg> Please move this to a more appropriate channel
<davidstrauss> micahg: what do you suggest?
<micahg> idk
<micahg> is this about #ubuntu-drupal?
<davidstrauss> no
<micahg> or maybe a PM
<micahg> or create a throwaway channel on freenode
<MTecknology> davidstrauss: Just do w/e the heck you feel like. I just don't give a crap anymore. I just wish you would understand the purpose of a project group before demanding control over it.
<MTecknology> I'm on to more important things.
<quentusrex> anyone able to help me figure out what this means:
<quentusrex> dpkg-deb: conffile `/opt/freeswitch/conf/vars.xml' does not appear in package
<quentusrex> dh_builddeb: command returned error code 512
<quentusrex> make: *** [binary-arch] Error 1
<quentusrex> actually:
<quentusrex> dh_builddeb
<quentusrex> 	dpkg-deb --build debian/freeswitch ..
<quentusrex> dpkg-deb: building package `freeswitch' in `../freeswitch_1.0.4+repack4-0ubuntu14925.3_amd64.deb'.
<quentusrex> dpkg-deb: conffile `/opt/freeswitch/conf/vars.xml' does not appear in package
<quentusrex> dh_builddeb: command returned error code 512
<davidstrauss> spm: PM?
<MTecknology> !pastebin
<ubottu> pastebin is a service to post multiple-lined texts so you don't flood the channel. Ubuntu pastebin is at  http://paste.ubuntu.com | To post !screenshots use http://tinyurl.com/imagebin | !pastebinit to paste directly from  command line | Make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the channel topic
<quentusrex> it's trying to execute dh_builddeb
<quentusrex> oops, ok
<quentusrex> I'll pastebin.
<MTecknology> quentusrex: You may want to try #ubuntu-motu - they're very helpful and knowledgable about building packages for lp.
<RenatoSilva> spm: it was you who approved the po? thanks whoever!
<RenatoSilva> now a question about translation
<RenatoSilva> I can translate using launchpad or the source code, right? what's the workflow?
<RenatoSilva> the way I understand it, I can commit translations to trunk, once a day lp seeks for changes in po and pot files and import them into translation page
<RenatoSilva> once a day?
<RenatoSilva> well, I think once a day is the export right?
<RenatoSilva> so the changes from both trunk and translation ui are exported to a specified branch, say ~user/project/translations
<RenatoSilva> so what I have to do to feed trunk with translations from lp ui is merging ~user/project/translations into ~user/project/trunk??? that's the right workflow?
<davidstrauss> RenatoSilva: Sounds right to me
<wgrant> RenatoSilva: That's right.
<RenatoSilva> davidstrauss: \o/ thanks :)
<RenatoSilva> wgrant:  ^^^
<RenatoSilva> I could also regularly download po/pot files from lp ui and commit them manually and directly to trunk (without having a translations branch as target)
<wgrant> You could. But why would you do that?
<RenatoSilva> for avoiding merges
<jtv> RenatoSilva: ah, I haven't been watching for a while but I guess your template went in.  There's a cron job that approves automatically where it can.
<wgrant> It's surely a lot easier to merge than to download everything manually.
<RenatoSilva> and have a single commit "new translations" rather than one for each day and with automatic commit comment
<jtv> RenatoSilva: you are right that the exports are once a day, but the imports are triggered whenever you push changes to the branch.
<spiv> RenatoSilva: why avoid merges?
<RenatoSilva> jtv: hi! thanks you, both pot and po were approved! \o/
<jtv> RenatoSilva: if they came in from the branch, the approval is a bit easier because in that case the code has more information.
<RenatoSilva> jtv: hum so gettext is ran to scan source code and validate pot and po files? o.O
<jtv> RenatoSilva: no and yes.
<RenatoSilva> spiv: for having a single commit "new translations" rather than one for each day and with automatic commit comment
<jtv> We do not run xgettext to extract templates from your source; you still have to do that.
<jtv> But we do run what we get through gettext to validate it.
<RenatoSilva> so no source code is scanned? I'm not very familiar with gettext
<RenatoSilva> I know xgettext generates the pot right
<RenatoSilva> wgrant: ok if I have many languages/templates it would be far esaier to merge instead of manually downloading it....
<RenatoSilva> are blueprints for feature request and bug reports for problems?
<RenatoSilva> or are blueprints for big festures only?
<spiv> RenatoSilva: for feature development that needs a heavyweight workflow, more than for big features, really.  I think most projects don't need all the fancy tracking that blueprints provide.
<spiv> RenatoSilva: blueprints have features like dependencies on other blueprints, and fields to track an approval workflow for each blueprint, stuff like that.
<RenatoSilva> they're more than big features? hum maybe they're specs?
<spiv> It's really designed for big projects with many related feature proposals and plans for doing some in particular milestones etc.
<spiv> Yeah, "blueprint" basically means "spec".
<RenatoSilva> ok so bugs like 433862 are just fine there in the bugs area, even if they're feature requests...
<RenatoSilva> * bug 433862
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 433862 in moin-solenoid/trunk "Theme preferences by user" [Wishlist,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/433862
<RenatoSilva> ok thanks :)
<spiv> RenatoSilva: well, whatever works for you is fine!
<RenatoSilva> spiv: whatever? so if I wish to separate features --> blueprints and problems --> bugs , then that's fine too??
<spiv> If the bug tracker works perfectly for tracking your feature requests, then why would you use anything else? :)
<spiv> The ideal tools and workflows are always somewhat project specific.
<RenatoSilva> ok
<RenatoSilva> thanks everybody!
<spm> davidstrauss: sure
<tuukkah> morning! anyone here able to unlock my launchpad account?
<beuno> tuukkah, unlock?
<tuukkah> beuno, i reset my password, and now when i try to log in, launchpad tells me my account is locked
<tuukkah> actually, the exact message is: "Your login was unsuccessful - This account cannot be used."
<beuno> mthaddon, around?
<spm> beuno: 'sup? or you after tom specificly?
<tuukkah> what about now, anyone able to help me with "Your login was unsuccessful - This account cannot be used"?
<tuukkah> or is there a support email address or something?
<beuno> tuukkah, maybe spm can help you
<beuno> not sure if he's still around
<beuno> and LOSA around?
<mthaddon> beuno: hi
<beuno> mthaddon, hi. tuukkah needs some help
<maxb> 09:21 < tuukkah> morning! anyone here able to unlock my launchpad account?
<maxb> 09:22 < beuno> tuukkah, unlock?
<maxb> 09:22 < tuukkah> beuno, i reset my password, and now when i try to log in, launchpad tells me my account is locked
<maxb> 09:23 < tuukkah> actually, the exact message is: "Your login was unsuccessful - This account cannot be used."
<mthaddon> tuukkah: what's the account?
<tuukkah> mthaddon, Tuukka.Hastrup@iki.fi
<mthaddon> tuukkah: ok, let me take a look and I'll let you know once I have some more info
<tuukkah> beuno, maxb, mthaddon, thanks!
<suji2> hi
<suji2> how to add a package in PPA?
<noodles775> suji2: have you seen https://help.launchpad.net/Packaging/PPA/Uploading ? If not, it's a good place to start.
<suji2> noodles775: okey. just now i saw that.
<noodles775> suji2: or do you just want to install a package from a ppa?
<noodles775> Ah, great.
<suji2> noodles775: i want to upload.
<suji2> noodles775: when i open this file ~/.dput.cf nothing is inside. me only add those things which is described in this page https://help.launchpad.net/Packaging/PPA/Uploading ?
<mthaddon> tuukkah: the account seems to be in a strange status, but can you try claiming it at https://launchpad.net/~tuukka-hastrup/+claim
<james_w> noodles775: should that page now document the ppa: magic for uploading?
<tuukkah> mthaddon, ok, let me see
<noodles775> james_w: yes, good point.
<lifeless> oh that reminds my
<lifeless> why is it ppa:user
<lifeless> not ppa:~user
<james_w> I think it was Jaunty that was the first release with that?
<james_w> ask Cody
<lifeless> cody-somerville: ^
<akheron> incoming                = ~%(ppa)s/ubuntu
<akheron> lifeless: that's why :)
<lifeless> akheron: that explains nothing to me
<akheron> in /etc/dput.cf the ~ is appended "automatically"
<akheron> err, prepended
<lifeless> akheron: thats a mechanism not a reason
<akheron> yes
<akheron> maybe the reason is that there's always the tilde, so why the user should write it
<noodles775> suji2: so, if you're using Ubuntu Jaunty, you won't even need that .dput.cf info, as you can just do: dput ppa:<yourusername> yourfile.changes. Otherwise, yes, follow those instructions as they are.
<suji2> noodles775: okey. i'm using Ubuntu Jaunty only.
<lifeless> akheron: did you write this, or are you guessing?
<lifeless> akheron: because ifyou're guessing, I've guessed too.But I want to know ;)
<lifeless> because I think its wrong - it means that the urls differ by more than protocol from launchpad, which is annoying and error prone.
<lifeless> and if launchpad starts doing official project ppa's
<lifeless> then dput will be broken
<wgrant> lifeless: It's already broken for multi-distro PPAs.
<wgrant> So it will need changing eventually anyway.
<james_w> plus, you're assuming something about how official PPAs will be implemented
<lifeless> indeed
<lifeless> assumptions are great
<james_w> I agree that it would be better to match the URL scheme, but still...
<lifeless> :)
<james_w> if we need to fix it we should do it sooner rather than later
<wgrant> OTOH, user/ppa is the way that Launchpad refers to PPAs.
<lifeless> wgrant: where?
<wgrant> eg. in emails, buildd statuses, probably a few other things.
<james_w> ppa.launchpad.net URLs?
<lifeless> ah
<james_w> so there is already a collision there
<lifeless> meep
<lifeless> ah well
<lifeless> it can wait then
<james_w> and the ppa: support in software sources will have the same issue there
<wgrant> I imagined that official project PPAs would just be implemented as a link between a normal Person-owned PPA and a project.
<james_w> that's the way I've heard it talked about
<james_w> nicely takes care of upload permissions without dangling more permission structure on projects at least
<james_w> would be nice to be able to dput ppa:project though
<james_w> save remembering the team name
<lifeless> exactly
<james_w> we could do that with project-ppa: or something as a last resort
<tuukkah> mthaddon, i claimed the account and everything seems to be right now - thanks! would it make sense to file a bug about that message and ask for a support email addr to be included in it?
<akheron> lifeless: just guessing
<mthaddon> tuukkah: yeah, that'd be great, thx
<`dax`> Hi mates
<`dax`> can I have informations?
<`dax`> I was searching about the creation of a project
<cody-somerville> lifeless, karmic
<cody-somerville> lifeless, and akheron is correct
<lifeless> cody-somerville: so before karmic it was ~user?
<cody-somerville> or wait
* kfogel changed the topic of #launchpad to: Launchpad is now open sourced: https://dev.launchpad.net/ | Help contact: kfogel | Join https://launchpad.net/~launchpad-users | Channel logs: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | #launchpad-dev is the developer channel
<cody-somerville> I suppose I added the feature actually in jaunty
<cody-somerville> lifeless, no, it was never ~user
<lifeless> ok
<lifeless> thanks
<v0lksman> mornin...so I'm trying to setup my own PPA....I think I followed all the instructions correctly and dput my .changes file to the ppa.  Everything looked good in the log.  But nothing appears on the PPA page itself...does this take time?
<akheron> cody-somerville, lifeless: I have jaunty and the ppa target is in /etc/dput.cf
<bigjools> v0lksman: make sure you signed the upload with a key that you associated with your account
<akheron> v0lksman: did you get a confirmation email?
<v0lksman> nadda
<v0lksman> but I also didn't sign the package
<akheron> you have to sign it
<v0lksman> that may be the problem...thanks
<bigjools> like I said ...
<akheron> https://help.launchpad.net/Packaging/PPA says that "Note: You can only activate a PPA if you have signed the Ubuntu code of conduct."
<akheron> is this true?
<akheron> iirc, I only signed it after setting up a PPA
<sandy|lurk> Hi, there appears to be some ancient automatic import from Tomboy SVN (we moved to git six months ago) to Launchpad here: https://code.launchpad.net/~vcs-imports/tomboy/head
<sandy|lurk> I'm not sure if I should file a bug or what
<sandy|lurk>  but what I'd like is to either get rid of it (it's misleading) or have it pull from git master
<sandy|lurk> should I just post it at https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad-bazaar ?
<sandy|lurk> thanks in advance :-)
<v0lksman> how do I confirm my package was signed on build?
<kfogel> v0lksman: I don't know, but bigjools might know.
<v0lksman> and do I need to run dinstall or something?  I keep getting a message saying not running dinstall after I run dput
<bigjools> v0lksman: use gpg --verify *.changes
<rowinggolfer_> v0lksman: for some reason I always have to force the signing of my packages
<v0lksman> with debuild -k?
<rowinggolfer_> kinda.
<rowinggolfer_> I use dpkg-buildpackage
<rowinggolfer_> dpkg-buildpackage -S -kF230408E to be precise
<rowinggolfer_> if I omit the -k... it doesn't sign.
<rowinggolfer_> is debuild == dpkg-buildpackage??
<rowinggolfer_> and v0lksman I always get the "not running dinstall" message.
<rowinggolfer_> it seems to be irrelevant.
<rowinggolfer_> my PPA is working :)
<v0lksman> arg...wtf...I ran 'debuild -i -us -uc -k4DCA1C14' then verify the changes file and 'gpg: no valid OpenPGP data found.'
<rowinggolfer_> lol.
<rowinggolfer_> -us -uc means don't sign
<v0lksman> ug
<v0lksman> shoulda read more on that... :)
<rowinggolfer_> use -S if you want a source package (which I think you do)
<v0lksman> cool!!! thanks guys!  my PPA is alive!
<geser> rowinggolfer_: check if your name on the changelog entry matches one of your uids on your key (including any comments used)
<rowinggolfer_> geser will do.
<rowinggolfer_> I have too many keys.
<geser> you can also specify the keyid to use in .devscripts
<geser> but I don't know if debuild will pick it up as I don't sign the source package during build but only when I'm ready for upload (with debsign)
<rowinggolfer_> geser: that's interesting.
<picklesworth> Hi everybody! I, err, marked a bug as a duplicate and it really isn't one. Is there a nice way to undo that?
<geser> yes, leave the field where you put in the other bug number in empty
<newproggie> hello everybody
<rowinggolfer_> hello.
<newproggie> I'm trying to sign some ppa keys for a couple of days now, but it seems that keyserver.ubuntu.com is down?
<rowinggolfer_> newproggie: I've had trouble getting a key also.
<newproggie> rowinggolfer: Can I substitute keyserver somehow with another server?
<rowinggolfer_> this command hangs for me - apt-key adv --keyserver keyserver.ubuntu.com --recv-keys A1F196A8
<newproggie> rowinggolfer_: right, same here
<rowinggolfer_> newproggie: dunno, I am reading man apt-key now.
<rowinggolfer_> hmmm. conflict there.
<rowinggolfer_> --recv-key
<rowinggolfer_> not --recv-keys
<newproggie> I can ping it, but it times out everytime I try to sign some ppa keys
<rowinggolfer_> that's not the issue though.
<rowinggolfer_> i got
<rowinggolfer_> gpg: requesting key A1F196A8 from hkp server keyserver.ubuntu.com
<rowinggolfer_> gpg: no writable keyring found: eof
<rowinggolfer_> gpg: error reading `[stream]': general error
<rowinggolfer_> gpg: Total number processed: 0
<rowinggolfer_> newproggie: the server must be having issues.
<newproggie> guess so
<rowinggolfer_> but, as you say, it's been the case for a couple of days now.
<rowinggolfer_> popey. who to contact re keyserver.ubuntu.com??
<newproggie> right, and it's starting to annoy me :-/
<rowinggolfer_> newproggie: popey will fix it.
<newproggie> rowinggolfer_: really? cool
<rowinggolfer_> with his elvis powers
<newproggie> :-)
<newproggie> afk for a moment
<kfogel> sinzui: if I suspect a bug has no need to be private (bug #216155, in this case, which public bug #432906 was marked as a dup of), is there anything I can do?
<ubottu> Bug 216155 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/216155 is private
<ubottu> Bug 432906 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/432906 is private
<kfogel> what?  both private?  I can see the latter but not the former...
<sinzui> kfogel: I cannot see the first one to say if it should be private
<kfogel> sinzui: bug #432906 says "this bug is public" but ubottu is saying private.  This is independent of my original question.
<ubottu> Bug 432906 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/432906 is private
<kfogel> ubottu bug?
<ubottu> Sorry, I don't know anything about bug?
<kfogel> heh
<Amaranth> kfogel: bug 216155 made public
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 216155 in glipper "glipper crashed with ImportError in <module>()" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/216155
<sinzui> kfogel: Both these bugs belong to the Ubuntu project. I think they need to decide if which bug needs to change
<kfogel> Amaranth: thank you
<sinzui> kfogel: I think the issue may stem of personal data that may be in the attachments
<kfogel> sinzui: sure, makes sense.  I'm more wondering about the general way we handle public bugs marked as dups of private bugs.  Writing it up now.
<sinzui> There is no sanity checking between them
<sinzui> obviously
<sinzui> the reason is that one bug may contain personal information, but the other does not
<james_w> just because we have the same bug doesn't mean you should be able to read the possibly private attachments to my bug
<james_w> yeah, it's confusing and irritating for those that file the duplicates
<kfogel> james_w, sinzui: I'm filing a bug about at least making the UI less confusing, for those who can see the public bug but not the private one.
<james_w> that would be great
<jblount> Anyone have the link to the Karma page for a team?
<jblount> I always lose this page, but it's good for bragging rights.
<soren> Teams have karma?
<jblount> soren: No, but there is a page that lists the users on a team with their karma next to their nick / name.
<MFen> i'm back. still working on the api calls that poll my binary builds in my ppa
<MFen> i have something that i think works, but i have no real way to test it
<MFen> i'd like to be able to upload packages to staging
<ilowe> doctormo: could I pick your brains about some packages in your PPA?
<chris|> wasn't there once a demo service for launchpad where I could testdrive the whole thing?
<beuno> chris|, yes
<beuno> staging.launchpad.net
<chris|> thanks :)
<chris|> staging stuff gets deleted regularly, right?
<jamalta> i'm digging the new home page
<beuno> chris|, every day
<chris|> perfect, thanks beuno
<idnar> man, the new edit buttons are taking a bit of getting used to
<idnar> probably for the best though
<Ursinha> idnar, you bet :) I can't live without them now, serious used to it :)
<Ursinha> *seriously
<kfogel> Ursinha: I'm going to randomly ask you a vcsimports question :-).  I see various imports with sources like, e.g., svn://svn.helenos.org/HelenOS/  -- no "trunk" on the end.  Should we approve those, or is it necessary to name trunk?
<kfogel> Ursinha: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/+code-imports/+new implies that trunk should be named explicitly.
<kfogel> jml: wondering if you know the answer to the question I'm asking Ursinha above.
<Ursinha> kfogel, hm, I understand that if the folder has a trunk inside it's ok, or if doesn't have all files in the root
<Ursinha> I always follow the wiki instructions when doing the reviews
<kfogel> Ursinha: IOW, Launchpad will DTRT.
 * Ursinha looks for the link
<kfogel> Ursinha: oh, I'm reading the wiki already.
<kfogel> https://wiki.canonical.com/Launchpad/PolicyandProcess/ReviewingCodeImports
<Ursinha> kfogel, this one :)
<kfogel> Ursinha: ah, wiki says just hack the URL.  funny.
<Ursinha> :)
<RenatoSilva> Is it possible to use Launchpad for translating MoinMoin? The po files are hosted at e.g. http://master18.moinmo.in/MoinI18n/pt-br
<ronny> RenatoSilva: i think there is some work needed for import/export with the launchpad translation system, i sugest to talk to ThomasWaldmann in #moin-dev as well
<RenatoSilva> ronny: I'm asking in #moin too. I have a few ideas, I just wanted to know if someone here was used to that kind of thing and had ready steps to give me
<ronny> RenatoSilva: wwhile osme projects im involved in use it to manage translations, im not familiar with the process
<RenatoSilva> ronny: Translation in Moin works this way: the .po files are hosted in the wiki itself, so people edit it to translate things. Every now and then Thomas runs some tool to read those pages and update hg repository
<ronny> i see
<RenatoSilva> ronny: my idea is write a small script to get those po files from wiki and push to a source branch in launchpad
<bdmurray> The privacy icon on edge in bug listings seems wrong to me
<RenatoSilva> ronny: so lp will detect new stuff and update translation ui
<ronny> RenatoSilva: well, communicate that with thomas, i need to get my train
<RenatoSilva> ok, the explanation is for everybody anyway :)
<RenatoSilva> ronny: ^
<RenatoSilva> ronny: so lp will detect new stuff and update translation ui
<RenatoSilva> ^
<ronny> RenatoSilva: well, it affects the translation process of moinmoin, so you need to talk to its developers
<RenatoSilva> then I start tranlsation using lp instead of the wiki, then when I'm done I run that script again but now only with the latest .pot file, then lp imports it into translation ui, then I export to .po and edit moin wiki and replace the whole content
<RenatoSilva> ronny: I'm waiting for an answer there
<RenatoSilva> ronny: the only problem is get access to moin .pot file  and whether they care about ordering (gettext fault that mess up wiki diffs completely)
<RenatoSilva> If you log in, you can edit translation, and each string has suggestions from other projects :)
<RenatoSilva> I'm planning to put both pt-br 18 and 19 there, as 19 fixes many translations, and edit 18 po there in lp, and see suggestions from 19 :)
<RenatoSilva> when I update a .pot in launchpad, the corresponding .po's are updated automatically, right?
<RenatoSilva> missing strings are removed from the pos and new ones are added, right?
<RenatoSilva> I'm sorry I was disconnected? Did you said something while I was out?
<RenatoSilva> when translations template (pot) get updated by lp, all related po files are recreated based on it, right?
<realbadapple> can someone tell me if 'keyserver.ubuntu.com' is under going changes because it keeps timeing out trying to --send-keys my pgp key
<mwhudson> i noticed that a bunch yesterday
<jpds> It's just overloaded.
<realbadapple> whats the preferred wait time before trying again?
<stani> if i have a bug instance, how can i get the bug number?
<stani> with the launchpad api
<stani> ah nevermind
<realbadapple> I just want to check is this command correct 'gpg --keyserver keyserver.ubuntu.com --send-keys ID' because I have been getting keyserver errors for about an hour now
<realbadapple> never mind it is there
<realbadapple> I searched for it and it is there but I still got the errors while sending the keys, who do I report this to?
<wgrant> realbadapple: The general issues with the keyserver are known.
<realbadapple> ok I did not know that thanks wgrant
#launchpad 2009-09-23
<james_w> yay, email on source package branch merge proposals at last
<james_w> thanks team
<thumper> james_w: np
<thumper> james_w: what's the state of package branches on LP?
<thumper> james_w: are they all up there now?
<james_w> and I should be able to reply to them soon as well :-)
<james_w> getting there
<thumper> james_w: how much to go?
<thumper> james_w: you are aware of our space issues?
<james_w> we're past the "churn through" stage, on to the "fix errors" stage
<thumper> which means what?
<james_w> maybe 10%
<thumper> I'm unclear
 * thumper nods
<james_w> well, it requires to look at why bzr failed to import the history of a particular package, work out what triggered the problem, get the fix included, roll that out, and re-import
<thumper> ok
<james_w> so it's manual work, rather than just time waiting for a script to run
<thumper> right
<thumper> 10% seems like a lot of manual work
<james_w> well, it's a case where 5% will be 1 bug, 2.5% another etc.
<thumper> ah ok
<james_w> I hadn't looked at the disk usage graph in a while
<james_w> you could say it fit quite nicely
<james_w> as long as no-one creates any more branches we will be fine :-)
<james_w> anyway, good night
<djsiegel> Hello, how can I get my project renamed?
<spm> djsiegel: add a question against the l pproject itself; ping me back with the number of same ; I'll verify you're you, and make it happen.
<djsiegel> spm: awesome, one moment!
<djsiegel> spm:  https://answers.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/83571
<spm> djsiegel: one of my projects is named awffull. there are worse names than phaste. :-)
<djsiegel> it's not the worst name ever, but it does sort of make you feel out of breath when you merely read it silently
<spm> djsiegel: done. https://edge.launchpad.net/haste
<djsiegel> wow, thank you so much!
<djsiegel> spm: if you need a pastebin tool, try haste :) I have no build infrastructure yet, though
<djsiegel> $ <some command> | haste | xargs gnome-open
<djsiegel> or
<spm> hahahaha. love it! will do :-)
<djsiegel> $ haste --provider pastebin2 my_file.c
<djsiegel> just sends the text and prints the url of the resulting paste
<bjsnider> which debuild options would i use if i do not want to upload the same source tarball over and over again?
<wgrant> bjsnider: -sa
<bjsnider> ok, so i leave out the -S
<wgrant> bjsnider: No, that too.
<mwhudson> it's the default if the version before the - hasn't changed, isn't it?
<wgrant> -S says build source only. -sa says don't include the orig tarball.
<bjsnider> -S -sa would upload the tarball again even if i have not changed it
<wgrant> Wait, yes. I had it the wrong way around.
<wgrant> -sa forces the tarball to be included.
<bjsnider> ok, so just -S
<bjsnider> got it
<wgrant> -sd will force the tarball to be excluded, but you shouldn't need that.
<lifeless> wgrant: uhm -sa forces upload
<lifeless> bjsnider: if you're seeing the tarball uploaded, you're probably doing native builds or something similar
<bjsnider> if the only change i want to make is the distro in the changelog, i don't need to keep uploading
<wgrant> lifeless: Yes, I corrected myself. I never have to use it, so I forgot which way around it was.
<wgrant> bjsnider: You need to also change the version.
<wgrant> You can't upload the same version to multiple series.
<bjsnider> well, i'll name the distro in the package name definitely
<JanC> hey, if any launchpad admin is around, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gdm/+bug/393854 says that an existing GNOME bug doesn't exist
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 393854 in gdm "Update PAM policy to allow password-less logins set up via users-admin" [Wishlist,Confirmed]
<JanC> not sure if that will be fixed automaticly or needs manual kicking  ;)
<lifeless> spm: ^
<spm> yeah was looking. JanC. not being familiar with the remote bug side; what am I looking for that show's it's broken?
<JanC> spm: if you fold open the gnome bug line at the top it says "GNOME Bug Tracker bug #414862 appears not to exist. Check that the bug number is correct."
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 414862 in acroread "acroread 9: you do not have permission to write to this file" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/414862
<JanC> eh, shut up ubottu :P
<spm> ahh right
<JanC> if you follow the link, you can see it exists
 * spm checks checkwatches...
<purserj> hi all, I'm trying to setup the launchpad code on ubuntu jaunty and I've hit an error when running make schema. Specifically I've got errors coming out the wazoo when trying to build _ctypes
<micahg> purserj: try #launchpad-dev
<purserj> rightio
<MFen> api question
<MFen> getPublishedBinaries and getPublishedSources return a 500 server error when i specify version="something"
<MFen> is that a bug?
<MFen> ppa.getPublishedSources(version='0.8.5~ppa5') -> 500
<MFen> (launchpadlib)
<MFen> i'm having a hell of a time trying to poll to see when my package will be accepted
<lifeless> uhm
<lifeless> you should get an OOPS ID in that 500
<mwhudson> it's a bug in something i guess
<MFen> ok, lemme see. maybe the exception has that id?
<mwhudson> i think it does
 * mwhudson hasn't used the api much
<MFen> (Pdb) p e.response
<MFen> {'status': '500', 'x-lazr-oopsid': 'OOPS-1362EC266', 'via': '1.1 wildcard.edge.launchpad.net', 'x-powered-by': 'Zope (www.zope.org), Python (www.python.org)', 'content-length': '14', 'server': 'zope.server.http (HTTP)', 'connection': 'close', 'date': 'Wed, 23 Sep 2009 04:10:19 GMT', 'content-type': 'text/plain'}
<ubottu> https://lp-oops.canonical.com/oops.py/?oopsid=1362EC266
<MFen> apparently i can't click on that? :)
<mwhudson> not usefully, no
<lifeless> once it syncs we can inspect it for you
<MFen> how long does it take to sync?
<mwhudson> up to 10 minutes
<MFen> k
<lifeless> AssertionError: 'version' can be only used when name is set
<lifeless> MFen: please file a bug - that should be a clean API error not an oops.
<MFen> ok. the proper invocation would be, what, version=set(['0.8.5~ppa5'])? or does "set" mean something else in this context
<wgrant> No, no, it means you need to set the name.
<wgrant> So you need to search for both a name and a version.
<wgrant> Not just a version.
<MFen> oh, i mentally added a word there
<MFen> yeah, that makes sense. didn't occur to me because i only have one package
<MFen> file that bug against..?
<wgrant> soyuz
<MFen> ty
<lifeless> ref the oops number
<lifeless> it will make it clear to folk reading it
<MFen> oh ok
<MFen> https://bugs.launchpad.net/soyuz/+bug/435023
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 435023 in soyuz "Missing name to getPublishedBinaries or Sources should be an error, not oops" [Undecided,New]
<Ursinha> ouch, I can't edit the bug description
<Ursinha> wonder if it's just me
<lifeless> Ursinha: its just you
<Ursinha> lifeless, I click in the exclamation mark, add the text and when click the green check for it to record the changes, the field box gets red and I see in tiny red letters: Entity-body was not a well-formed JSON document.
<Ursinha> lifeless, are you able to record the changes?
<lifeless> Ursinha: I did
<lifeless> Ursinha: I've had that red error a few times
<Ursinha> crap
<lifeless> I'll file a bug the next time  Isee it
<lifeless> try repeating your action if it happens (may need to refresh)
<suji> how to download and install a package from the existing ppa?
<Ursinha> I did it like a dozen times
<Ursinha> now with another browser and same shit
<Ursinha> suji, you should add the ppa to your sources.list and install it via apt-get or aptitude
<lifeless> Ursinha: ctrl-R ?
<Ursinha> lifeless, nothing
<lifeless> hmm
<lifeless> you're on https yes?
<lifeless> can't be a proxy then...
<Ursinha> lifeless, it was working this afternoon
<Ursinha> I did nothing different
<lifeless> Ursinha: sure
<lifeless> Ursinha: when its happened to me its been a 30 second thing
<lifeless> just ctrl-refresh, works, keep goin
<lifeless> g
<MFen> argh
<MFen> how do you tell if a collection is populated, in launchpadlib?
<MFen> i just want to know if there's at least one item
<Ursinha> MFen, len(list(collection)) maybe works
<wgrant> But that's potentially very, very expensive.
<MFen> well, i was hoping i wouldn't have to do that
<Ursinha> yes, indeed
<Ursinha> I don't know if there's a count or something that could tell that right away
<wgrant> I don't think there is.
<MFen> sources[0] returns an IndexError when empty.  so i could catch the exception..
<wgrant> Maybe try to get collection[0]?
<Ursinha> yes, and catch the index error
<MFen> ugh?
<Ursinha> that what I do
<wgrant> There's nothing really wrong with that.
<MFen> poor form. it would be nice if the api made len() work. it doesn't have to be expensive if you do it on the server
<wgrant> It could be.
<wgrant> COUNT often isn't cheap.
<mzz> sounds like you want it to support bool(), not necessarily len()
<MFen> yeah, i really want bool in this case, but len comes in handy too
<MFen> i always wondered why COUNT isn't O(1) for real tables
<MFen> surely it occurred to someone to just keep a counter..
<mzz> it isn't?
 * mzz feels ignorant
<MFen> well, i suppose i haven't actually checked
<mzz> I figured COUNT would only be slow if it involves a WHERE
<mzz> or something else making it differ from just the number of rows in the table
<wgrant> Transactions.
<MFen> ok. making actual progress
<wgrant> MVCC can make COUNT require a sequential scan, I believe.
<MFen> i am now able to tell when the ppa has accepted my package, through the api. it's heinous, but it works
<MFen> now i need to figure out what it takes to poll the binaries
<mzz> this sounds like it's for something I might like
<MFen> i'm automating steps 4-5 here http://wiki.goonmill.org/HowtoReleaseHypy
<MFen> it's for release automation. i shouldn't have to hang around and wait for my packages to build, so i'm writing something that uses the api to poll for built packages. when they're done, it'll copy them, too
<MFen> what i want to answer at this juncture is: "are all the binaries that are going to be built, already built?"
<MFen> the hard part of that question is i don't know how to find out how many binaries are going to be built
<lifeless> MFen: its turing complete
<MFen> afaict the api does not actually use the "pending" status. i can only see packages that actually were built
<mzz> you'd have to peek at the debian/control file, and I have no idea if launchpad does that before actually building
<lifeless> MFen: if you have an oracle, use it. Otherwise you have to wait.
<MFen> lifeless: i'm going for an approximation i.e. "within the next day or so" :)
<lifeless> MFen: no, I mean the number and names of the built packages
<lifeless> MFen: its turing complete.
<wgrant> MFen: The API does use the pending status.
<wgrant> MFen: What is missing?
<MFen> wgrant: well, i have yet to see getPublishedBinaries return any pending packages in the list
<MFen> unless it means something unexpected
<wgrant> MFen: That's because they will only be Pending for a few seconds.
<wgrant> MFen: Unlike sources, binaries only get publishing records just before they're actually published.
<MFen> well, that would explain it. so how do i know how many builders it has spawned? i just want to know that, and then wait for all of them to finish
<wgrant> MFen: You have to look at build statuses for the rest.
<wgrant> MFen: Have a look at getBuildRecords, I guess.
<lifeless> MFen: one per arch, except arch all
<lifeless> or any; where any is one per build arch for the distro ~~ ppa-build-arches, and all is one arch only
<lifeless> MFen: what are you trying to achieve?
<lifeless> MFen: nothing in the hypy list seems to need estimates
<MFen> just like i said, trying to automate my release.  rather than sit on the web page and wait for all the building to complete so i can copy packages, i want my computer to do the waiting
<MFen> estimates?
<lifeless> 15:10 < MFen> what i want to answer at this juncture is: "are all the binaries that are going to be built, already built?"
<lifeless> thats an estimation question, isn't it?
<MFen> no?  a certain number of builders are spawned each time. (it's probably always 3, but i'm not sure). i want to wait for all those arches to finish building
<wgrant> It's easy enough to check.
<MFen> it's an exact number, i just don't know what it is :)
<lifeless> ah!
<lifeless> arches != binaries
<wgrant> Locate all builds for the source.
<lifeless> very different thing
<lifeless> https://edge.launchpad.net/~subunit/+archive/snapshots/+packages
<lifeless> start with that page in the lp
<lifeless> source
<wgrant> Hmm.
<lifeless> should give you enough inspiration
<wgrant> Is the necessary stuff exposed in the API...
 * wgrant checks.
<MFen> i haven't looked at getBuildRecords yet
<wgrant> MFen: Ah, easy. You don't need to.
<wgrant> MFen: Use archive.getBuildSummariesForSourceIds
<MFen> aha!
<MFen> yes. i shall try that.
<wgrant> MFen: That will give you a nice overview of the status of all the builds. It will even tell you when the build is finished, but the binaries aren't published yet.
<wgrant> If the binaries are unpublished, it will give a status of FULLYBUILT_PENDING, rather than the normal FULLYBUILT.
<wgrant> That's what the page lifeless pointed at uses.
<MFen> ok cuz i still have no idea what i'm supposed to be looking at on that page
<wgrant> MFen: The far-right column in the table is the information that you require.
<MFen> oh, yeah. that's no different from what i see on my own ppa page though
<wgrant> Right.
<wgrant> But that shows what you need, so you could check the code.
<MFen> oh right. the code. i forgot you guys released the code
<MFen> remembering that would have made this easier
<MFen> not one hit on google code for that api
<wgrant> That's unsurprising.
<wgrant> It exists mainly for the use of the PPA listing page.
<MFen> i dunno. google code doesn't seem very useful
<MFen> you'd think it would index anything open source that had a web repo
<MFen> puzzling
<MFen> source_ids is a single int?
<wgrant> MFen: A list of ints, I believe.
<wgrant> MFen: Not designed nor ideally suited to launchpadlib use, but it can be done.
<MFen> i'll have to parse it off of self_link
<wgrant> MFen: You need to get the ID of the source_package_publishing_hisory.
<wgrant> I think so, yes.
<wgrant> :(
<MFen> Version 0.8.5~ppa9 packages not yet accepted by the PPA.  Waiting 20s... [\n] Package was accepted. [\n] BUILDING: amd64 build of python-hypy 0.8.5~ppa9 in ubuntu karmic RELEASE [\n] BUILDING: i386 build of python-hypy 0.8.5~ppa9 in ubuntu karmic RELEASE [\n] BUILDING: lpia build of python-hypy 0.8.5~ppa9 in ubuntu karmic RELEASE [\n] 0/3 packages finished.  Waiting 60s...
<wgrant> MFen: Looking good.
<lifeless> \o/ load
<lifeless> we need notfications :P
<wgrant> lifeless: PPA pages do exactly the same thing every 60 seconds if there are any builds that are not finished and published.
<MFen> i'm going to have to make my timeout a lot longer. i've got 28 minutes waiting in the queue now :)
<lifeless> wgrant: same applies there :)
<wgrant> MFen: Bonus points for reading the estimated start time and delaying until around then.
<wgrant> (sadly that's not possible yet, but it would be a simple patch)
<MFen> ok. thanks a million for your help, everyone
<MFen> i'm going to go to bed now. i'll pick this up again tomorrow
<wgrant> Night.
<jml> hello
<noodles775> hi :)
<lifeless> hi jml
<Amaranth> yay the little i came back for public/private on webkit
<Amaranth> oh, that's a pencil, never noticed
<sivang> anybody remembers david alouch's irc nick ?
<wgrant> sivang: ddaa
<sivang> wgrant: thank you!
 * maxb blinks
<maxb> So I accidentally superseded a package in my PPA with one with a *lower* version number
<wgrant> You hadn't previously deleted it?
<maxb> no
<maxb> um
<wgrant> But...
<maxb> oh yes I had, but I got confused
<noodles775> *phew*
<wgrant> Confusion is easy.
<maxb> I'd deleted it, but I'd also copied it to *another* PPA
<wgrant> Ah.
<maxb> and I'd got confused which one I was looking at
<thekorn> hi, is editing of bug descriptions known to be not working, I always get
<thekorn> "Entity-body was not a well-formed JSON document"
<thekorn> btw, it is hardly readable on my netbook in such a small font ;)
<spm> JanC: ref that gnome bug you noted earlier? is now better understood; a solution will be either part of the rollout in ~ 13ish hours (2200 utc) or manually fixed later today. gmb is the person to talk with for the thrilling details. :-)
<jblount> I love it when I click a button I dont' click every day and get nice ajaxy fun stuff in LP.
<jml> heh
<Turms_> why https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/433259 doesn't show up in my launchpade page: https://bugs.launchpad.net/~sentiniate
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 433259 in grub-installer "karmic - /etc/grub.d/ contains both 30-otheros and 30_os-prober " [Medium,Fix released]
<Turms_> and, my impression is that the fix has furtherly messed up things, i'll have to take photos of grub window and add them to my bugreport
<mpt> gnaarrrrr
<wgrant> Uhoh.
<mpt> I can't get to the Ubuntu Bugs page from an Ubuntu bug report
<mpt> e.g. https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntulooks/+bug/16045
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 16045 in ubuntulooks "Show Desktop button (and some others) shouldn't have rounded borders" [Wishlist,Confirmed]
<wgrant> True.
<mpt> What am I missing?
<wgrant> Was there ever a way to do that?
<mpt> Yes, in 2.x you could click on "Ubuntu" in the hierarchy
<wgrant> Oh, right.
<james_w> "#
<james_w> # Launchpad now open source! â 21 Jul 2009
<james_w> Translate a phrase once, have it show up in all your releases. "
<james_w> that seems a bit wonky
<james_w> (from the front page)
<maxb> What's up with the PPA builders? Did the ongoing ubuntu archive rebuild get reprioritized above normal PPA builds?
<intellectronica> mpt: yes you can, using the so-called bread crumbs
<bigjools> maxb: it looks like nothing's getting dispatched at all
<bigjools> gar
<mpt> intellectronica, none of them go to the Ubuntu Bugs page. Close, though. :-) One goes to the Ubuntu page, and another goes to the ubuntulooks Bugs page.
<intellectronica> mpt: ah, interesting. so i guess packages should have another level in their breadcrumbs
<wgrant> Or the breadcrumbs need dropdowns like they had in 1.0.
<maxb> Oh yes, the build farm does seem to have melted completely :-/
<bigjools> I am trying to get an admin to poke it
<wgrant> 6 hours ago.. wow.
<intellectronica> i was not a big fan of those dropdowns, i like having all the text in front of me
<mpt> intellectronica, I guess this was a bit inevitable when trying to collapse two aspects of navigation (hierarchy + facets) into one. I don't see where "Bugs in Ubuntu" would sensibly go into that hierarchy. Either you came from the ubuntulooks page, or you came from the Ubuntu Bugs page, not both.
<mpt> (the ubuntulooks Bugs page, I mean)
<mpt> You can't actually get to from the Ubuntu Bugs page to the ubuntulooks Bugs page. That's not a problem in itself, but it would be weird for the breadcrumbs to suggest you can.
<intellectronica> mpt: i see what you mean. yes, that's quite tricky. but i think a rule of the facet breadcrumb always showing after the context will work
<intellectronica> well, not context, i mean target. in this case the bug is the context
<mpt> intellectronica, so what would that mean in this case? "Ubuntu âubuntulooksâ package Bugs in ubuntulooks Bug #16045" then ...
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 16045 in ubuntulooks "Show Desktop button (and some others) shouldn't have rounded borders" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/16045
 * mpt wonders why the guillemots didn't copy
<bigjools> maxb: it's getting un-boogered now
<maxb> \o/
<maxb> thanks
<bigjools> and the bug that causes it will be squished tonight in the rollout
<maxb> even better :-)
<intellectronica> mpt: yes, that's what i meant
<mpt> intellectronica, I was waiting for you to fill in the blank :-) What would go after that?
<maxb> bigjools: Whilst you have an admin around, could you get them to kick zeca too?
<bigjools> maxb: zeca?  you mean the keyserver
<maxb> ye
<mpt> (Oh, I see, they're list items with custom bullets, not real guillemots. That'll be a bit awkward for people using screen readers or text browsers.)
<maxb> s
<bigjools> zeca is a test thing :)
<bigjools> they are aware of it, I don't know what's up with it
<intellectronica> mpt: the bug is the last component
<mpt> intellectronica, yes, so where would "Bugs in Ubuntu" go in that list?
<intellectronica> mpt: it would go immediately after ubuntu
<mpt> intellectronica, so "Ubuntu > Bugs in Ubuntu > ubuntulooks package > Bugs in ubuntulooks > Bug 16045"?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 16045 in ubuntulooks "Show Desktop button (and some others) shouldn't have rounded borders" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/16045
<wgrant> maxb: Apparently keyserver.u.c is just overloaded.
<intellectronica> mpt: yup
<maxb> eek
<wgrant> Yes. Use pook.sks-keyservers.net instead, I suppose.
<intellectronica> it's not that clean, but i think it's still better than the matrix for hierarchy and facets, which can be quite confusing
<wgrant> s/pook/pool/
<mpt> intellectronica, I think the main reason it was confusing was the "You're using edge" bar splitting it in two. I really don't think a hierarchy alone can sensibly do the job, but I hope you succeed anyway. :-)
<KIAaze> hi, I am unable to check out this bzr branch on launchpad: bzr branch lp:webcontentcontrol
<KIAaze> I get the following error
<KIAaze> bzr: ERROR: Target directory "webcontentcontrol" already exists.
<KIAaze> bzr: ERROR: Unrecognised container format: '<html>'
<KIAaze> (other error just from previous attempt)
<KIAaze> Bazaar version 1.13.1
<salgado> KIAaze, it means there's a directory named webcontentcontrol in your CWD.  you need to either remove it or use a different name for the branch (e.g. bzr branch lp:webcontentcontrol webcontrol)
<KIAaze> no, that was just a copy/paste error. The real error was the html thing.
<KIAaze> but I managed to check out the branch after using my launchpad login, so it went over SSL
<geser> cprov: is the fix for bug 408528 already in use? because http://launchpadlibrarian.net/32262296/upload_1255703_log.txt (Unhandled exception processing upload: duplicate key value violates unique constraint "person__account__key")
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 408528 in soyuz "Packages build but fail to upload due to email address issue" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/408528
<cprov> geser: it should be, let me check
<wgrant> Oh dear.
<wgrant> That's not a good looking error...
<geser> I've seen this already in the copy archive but now in the main archive too
<wgrant> Hmm.
<wgrant> Does that mean there is an account with a person and an email address, but the email address is not linked to the person?
<lamothe> Hi all, I have an issue that I hope that you can help with.  I would like to delete https://launchpad.net/me-tv/+milestone/beta but every time I try to, I get an oops.
<cprov> geser: can you safely retry that build ?
<geser> what you mean with "safely retry"?
<cprov> geser: if retrying that build is still possible and wouldn't cause any problem to your archive.
<geser> cprov: ah, sure
<geser> cprov: I'll let you know when the retry is done by the buildd
<cprov> geser: what's the build url ?
<geser> cprov: https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/php-kolab-filter/0.1.5-2/+build/1255703
<cprov> geser: rescored.
<geser> :)
<cprov> geser: same error, the workaround doesn't cover this case, I will investigate.
<ahasenack> hey guys, I get an OOPS when I click on the logout button
<ahasenack> everytime
<ahasenack> just wondering if someone would like to take a quick look
<ahasenack> I'm at this url: https://bugs.launchpad.net/landscape/+bug/+logout
<ahasenack> OOPS-1362G2187 is the last oops
<ubottu> https://lp-oops.canonical.com/oops.py/?oopsid=1362G2187
<ahasenack> and I'll get another one if I click on "logout" again
<ahasenack> looks like the 404 page from LP
<ahasenack> I was logged in as someone who could browse landscape buugs
<ahasenack> then in another tab I logged out and logged in as someone who couldn't
<ahasenack> then went back to the first one and clicked logout
<ahasenack> I think that was what I did
<ahasenack> ok, I'll close it and move on as I need to do some work too :)
<eagles0513875> hey guys do the gpg keyservers fall under this jurisdiction? or is this the wrong channel
<cumulus007> Why is the translation system in Launchpad so hard to use? It's not well-integrated into the search system, for instance, I can't filter out translate templates. It's just hard to find the translation template you need and I really think it should get an overall refresh
<beuno> cumulus007, it has had a refresh on edge
<beuno> have you tried edge?
<cumulus007> not yet, I'll have a look then :)
<cumulus007> ah it's a lot cleaner and faster
<beuno> cumulus007, it will be rolled out to production in a few hours
<cumulus007> yes I read about that
<cumulus007> beuno: there is just one feature I would really like to see.. It would be great if I could list Ubuntu-specific software and documentation only
<cumulus007> beuno: is something like that in development or discussed?
<beuno> cumulus007, I don't know, but danilos, jtv or henninge may
<danilos> cumulus007: you mean something like https://translations.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/?
<danilos> cumulus007: when you into a particular language, you'll see only ubuntu-specific software and documentation
<cumulus007> No, because KDE software, GNOME software and lots of other software
<cumulus007> ..is also listed.
<binetou> hihi  it's my first time here
<binetou> is there some one ? Y'a-t-il quelqu'un ??
<Ursinha> binetou, there is always someone :)
<binetou> sorry !!
<Ursinha> binetou, nothing to be sorry about
<jamalta> Ursinha: jeez, you scared him off!
<Ursinha> hahaha what the...
<jamalta> :P
<Ursinha> jamalta, :P I wonder what I said
<jamalta> Ursinha: i have no clue.. i do wonder what the second part of his message was
<MFen> wgrant, others: thanks again for your help. i got it working
<MFen> http://hypy-source.goonmill.org/file/6454ce4fc3e5/build-tools/lptool
<idnar> hmm, does Launchpad not generate diffs for merge proposals for private branches?
<MFen> currently lgpl licensed (but i'm not picky about that), if anyone wants to build something more general on top of it
<Ursinha> ahasenack, hey, are you still getting those 404s?
<idnar> oh nevermind, I guess it just took longer than I expected
<jml> idnar, it takes longer than I'd like
<MFen> anyone here in sydney?
<MFen> or parts nearby?
<MFen> i was going to comment that that strikes me as a beautiful apocalypse.  then i saw this picture: http://inapcache.boston.com/universal/site_graphics/blogs/bigpicture/ausdust_09_23/d18_20458747.jpg
<MFen> THE END IS NIGH
<jml> MFen, I left Sydney on Sunday
<jml> MFen, it's almost 2am there, so there won't be many folk around :)
<MFen> ah right
<jml> awesome photo though
<MFen> more here.. http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2009/09/dust_storm_in_australia.html
<jml> MFen, the headline is a little odd
<MFen> well, it's a boston-based news source
<jml> MFen, I was going to say that since the country is largely desert, "Dust storm in Australia" is a bit like "Snow in Canada"
<MFen> haha good point
<MFen> is that actually true though?  we have lots of desert in CA, but not that many dust storms
<MFen> CA, not .ca btw
<jml> MFen, I don't know. I've never had a good reason to visit the desert. :)
<jml> MFen, dust storms in Sydney are extremely rare
<jml> that's newsworthy
<MFen> well, it's pretty. gonna be hell to clean up
<ahasenack> Ursinha: no, I moved away from that state (url and login I was using)
* kfogel changed the topic of #launchpad to: https://help.launchpad.net has help for Launchpad.net | Help contact: - | Join https://launchpad.net/~launchpad-users | This channel is logged: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | Launchpad is open source: see channel #launchpad-dev
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<james_w> I'm forging web app requests, and I'm getting some 500 responses with 'Application error.  Unauthenticated user POSTing to page that requires authentication.'
<james_w> they are deterministic, but I have no trouble doing it with my browser
<james_w> which would point to a python-launchpadbugs issue, but I find the fact that it is 500 responses odd
<asabil> hi all
<asabil> are there any .deb packages to install launchpad on a server ?
<beuno> asabil, no
<beuno> none planned
<tonyyarusso> sad
<asabil> oh, any reason for that ?
<asabil> I think that launchpad is just awesome, and if some packages were available it would just get more people to use it within organizations
<beuno> yes, our open sourcing is to give the community the power to add value to Launchpad
<beuno> not enable other instances to come up
<beuno> so we won't be spending any time towards that direction
<asabil> I understand that
 * tonyyarusso really needs to make a list to keep track of all the people who work for Canonical now
<asabil> but I think that contributions will come from people working within other companies
<asabil> and who deploy instances of launchpad internally
<asabil> in the same way that they contribute to bugzilla and other internal tools
<beuno> right, but it's an indirect benefit
<james_w> it's free software now, you have the freedom to package it
<asabil> james_w: true, but I would probably spend days trying to get it packages, instead of spending days writing patches for it to improve it
<asabil> I think it would make a lot of sense to have launchpad in the launchpad ppa
<beuno> asabil, and why do you want Launchpad developers to invest those days for you?  they can write patches in the time as well...
<asabil> but anyways, that was just a query in case it was available, I will try to come up with something
<asabil> beuno: because my packaging attempts were failure :)
<asabil> but thanks for the great software that launchpad is
<asabil> I will hopefully get an instance deployed where I work
<beuno> asabil, in general, we're happy that people are using it, but we made a concious decision to not invest resources in deployment
<asabil> beuno: I understand that :)
<c_korn> hello I just got a mail "On 2009-09-22 13:03z (1 days 6 hours 7 minutes ago), you uploaded a file
<c_korn> with translation templates for quilt in Ubuntu Karmic package "quilt" to
<c_korn> Launchpad."
<c_korn> but I never uploaded anything
<geser> c_korn: sponsored upload to main perhaps?
<c_korn> hm, no idea. I may have translated a few string in quilt recently
<geser> c_korn: you don't need to touch any translation files to get this email
<c_korn> geser: I did an update to quilt recently. so this is why I got the mail ?
<c_korn> my new version got released in karmic
<geser> yes
<c_korn> geser: ok. is there anything I am supposed to do now ? (here is the full mail text: http://pastebin.com/d56510c19 )
<geser> c_korn: don't know as in the few cases I got the email, the import worked and I ignored the mail :)
<c_korn> geser: how can I check if the import worked ?
<geser> c_korn: you probably need to grab someone familiar with the translation (rosetta) stuff
<c_korn> geser: ok, thank you.
* Chex changed the topic of #launchpad to: Read https://help.launchpad.net for help | Help contact: - | Join https://launchpad.net/~launchpad-users | This channel is logged: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | Launchpad will be down/in read-only from 22:00 UTC until 23:00 UTC for a code update | Launchpad is open source: see channel #launchpad-dev
<flacoste> bac: what is the distinction between project reviewed and project approved
<flacoste> bac: when reviewing project
<flacoste> bac: and shall I check both or only one of them?
<bac> if it is an open source project and you approve of it, check both
<flacoste> bac: sorry, i just missed the big blob of text at the top of the page :-)
<flacoste> doh
<bac> flacoste: yeah, read that
<flacoste> what, that big blob of text?
<flacoste> no way, don't make me think ;-)
<bac> flacoste: critical thing to remember:  if it is 'other/open source' and you check 'reviewed' but not 'approved' it will show up as proprietary
<bac> if it is a good FOSS project, just check 'reviewed' so other CHR people won't see it again
<flacoste> bac: ok, and is that bad?
<bac> no, it is just a little surprising to some
<flacoste> ok, but that's fine?
<bac> yes, if appropriate
<flacoste> bac: I don't know yet for 5 days? what should I do, ./request-info.py?
<bac> flacoste: no, that's sort of deprecated b/c it requires us to follow-up.  use the 'disable' script and if they want the project we'll hear back from them.
<flacoste> ok
<irvingpop> Launchpad gurus, need help with something
<irvingpop> Can launchpad build distribution-specific kernel modules?
<irvingpop> For example, a kernel module for Jaunty
<wgrant> irvingpop: If you give it a package that does that, yes.
<wgrant> irvingpop: Perhaps find an example in Ubuntu and use that as an example?
<irvingpop> Thanks.  I'm looking for an example now.   I just uploaded a package to my PPA which tries to build a kernel module,  but it fails at the kernel module compile bit
<wgrant> For kernel modules, you probably want to look at DKMS.
<wgrant> Otherwise you'll run into problems when certain security updates appear in Ubuntu.
<wgrant> A good example might be virtualbox-ose-source
<irvingpop> DKMS looks really cool.  Unfortunately I'm not the developer of the software,  just trying to package it in order to make life easier for Ubuntu users
<irvingpop> In short, I have no idea where to start regarding changing the kernel module :)
<Meths> What is the definition of "very very soon" in the popups on launchpad?
<wgrant> An example I've looked at (kvm) doesn't seem to have needed much patching for DKMS.
<jpds> Meths: 7 minutes time?
<wgrant> 30 seconds, actually.
<wgrant> I think somebody configured it badly..
<irvingpop> hmm
<Meths> hmmm, what's wrong with issuing a time or is there an announcement page with maintenance/downtime times on?
<irvingpop> wgrant:  I'll look at it.   virtualbox seems to use module-assistant,  could that be related?
<wgrant> Meths: 2200UTC is the time.
<wgrant> irvingpop: module-assistant is a useful helper, but it's much more manual on the user's part.
<irvingpop> ok gotcha
<Meths> wgrant: Thanks, I gathered that from the 7mins/30secs responses.  My point is do I have to ask in here every time I see the message or is there somewhere else I can see it?
<wgrant> Meths: The blog, the launchpad-announce mailing list, the channel topic.
<Meths> wgrant: Excellent, thanks.
<RenatoSilva> bzr: ERROR: Invalid http response for http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~renatosilva/moin-solenoid/userprefs/.bzr/branch-format: Unable to handle http code 503: Service Unavailable
<jpds> RenatoSilva: /topic
<RenatoSilva> is it my connection? happening here since yesterday
<RenatoSilva> jpds: read-only from 22:00 UTC until 23:00 UTC ?
<spm> RenatoSilva: codebrowse is a bit flaky lately, but atm all code* services are down per the rollout.
<spm> that's only the UI side, unf.
<RenatoSilva> and it was down yesterday too, right?
<wgrant> No.
<spm> no, just flaky
<RenatoSilva> it happened yesterday (or some hours ago depending on your location)
<RenatoSilva> ok I'll just wait, thanks
<quentusrex> fun fun with read-only launchpad.
<RenatoSilva> is branch.conf pushed to lp too?
<RenatoSilva> I'm worried about some bzr-email confs I don't want to share
<RenatoSilva> well, I mean .bzr/barnch/branch.conf
<Ursinha> hey jpds :)
<jpds> Ursinha: Hi!
<RenatoSilva> do you know what Ursinha means :)
<thumper> RenatoSilva: that is a #bzr question
<RenatoSilva> thumper: ok
<thumper> RenatoSilva: I don't know if the branch.conf is pushed
<thumper> RenatoSilva: if bzr pushes it, we get it, if it doesn't we don't
<beuno> it is not
<thumper> beuno: thanks
<beuno> hi thumper
<RenatoSilva> beuno: thanks
<RenatoSilva> thumper: ^
<RenatoSilva> [19:28] <zsquareplusc> you can have a branch specific config in the .bzr folder i guess that one is pushed
<lifeless> nope
<RenatoSilva> hum, [19:28] <fullermd> No, it's not. hahaah
<RenatoSilva> is this lp freeze for updating to edge?
<RenatoSilva> well, edge is where beta versions are tested right
<Ursinha> RenatoSilva, that's what topic says :)
<beuno> RenatoSilva, for updating production
<RenatoSilva> Ursinha: not necessarily update to the edge code
<RenatoSilva> Ursinha: I suppose
<Ursinha> RenatoSilva, yes, not necessarily, but also yes, it's frozen for update
<RenatoSilva> beuno: for updating production with the version in edge?
<RenatoSilva> Ursinha: ^
<wgrant> Slightly further than that, but yes.
<Ursinha> what wgrant said
<RenatoSilva> ok
<^robertj> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~kripkenstein/intensityengine/0.9/download/head%3A/scripting_docs.html-20090917093625-jd7m05hzq8cpuvd3-1/scripting_docs.html <- not loading, says to ask in here
<wgrant> ^robertj: LP is being upgraded 2200-2300 UTC, so most of it is read-only and the bzr stuff is down entirely.
<^robertj> nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
 * ^robertj goes to grab document from his other box :(
<jkakar> Hrm, I can't seem to post a bug comment.
<beuno> jkakar, read only launchpad
<beuno> rolling out, etc
#launchpad 2009-09-24
<thumper> how long are we read only for?
<jkakar> Am gettng an error: The following errors were encountered: (, 'newMessage', 'launchpad.Edit')
<jkakar> beuno: Oh, d'oh.
<beuno> that is not a great error message
<spm> thumper: hopefully not much longer, but...
<jkakar> beuno: No. :)
<quentusrex> so, it's been an hour
<quentusrex> is there a status report?
<quentusrex> for the launchpad junkies? we need our fix...
 * beuno looks at spm 
<slangasek> :)
<spm> still going.. some minor hiccups have slowed earlier bits down; still going on bits we weren't expecting to be slow :-/
<quentusrex> cool
<quentusrex> is there a 'build log' for the upgrade? :-D
<spm> quentusrex: ha!
<quentusrex> :)
<spm> Quick update: still making forward progress. should be bringing bits back up RSN.
<quentusrex> lol :)
<slangasek> spm: thanks for the info
* Chex changed the topic of #launchpad to: Read https://help.launchpad.net for help | Help contact: - | Join https://launchpad.net/~launchpad-users | This channel is logged: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | Launchpad will be down/in read-only from 22:00 UTC until 24:00 UTC for a code update | Launchpad is open source: see channel #launchpad-dev
<wgrant> Uhoh.
<Ursinha> hmm
<quentusrex> yeah...
<quentusrex> added an extra hour to the downtime...
<micahg> hmmm: http://blog.launchpad.net/releases/launchpad-3-0-is-here-new-ui-and-more
<micahg> why is the next release 3.1.10? shouldn't it be 3.0.10?
<DBO> so upon reading the topic I know I shouldn't ask... but, everyone knows launchpad is refusing code commits right?
<slangasek> because it's in read-only mode, yes
<quentusrex> it seems to be taking the dputs from me
<quentusrex> and at really good bandwidth.
<quentusrex> although they haven't been accepted yet.
<maxb> It seems to be plain offline to me
<DBO> yeah just makin sure
<maxb> The one thing I think LP could do better about its downtime is to be more truthful about read-only vs. down
<DBO> meh, free is free
<DBO> what ya gonna do
<quentusrex> :)
<slangasek> maxb: looks accurate to me, what exactly is down?
<maxb> For me, it has just come back up in read-only mode just now
<slangasek> ah
<slangasek> I'm at a point where everything I'm waiting to do involves writing, so I guess I wouldn't have noticed :)
<DBO> same
<quentusrex> but some of the css is missing
<spm> maxb: seriously - if you're finding issues with R/O mode - can you log a bug report 9obviously once we're *out* of R/O mode... ;-) ) - cause it really should be in same.
<wgrant> quentusrex: Sure it's not just the 3.0 UI that just appeared for me?
<micahg> wgrant: is bzr 2.0 necessary for using code in LP?
<wgrant> micahg: Of course not. That would be a bit nasty.
<wgrant> Hmmm.
<wgrant>  /mysql's description sucks, and it is today's featured project.
<wgrant> And that blog post on the front page is still has broken.
<wgrant> s/has //
<micahg> wgrant: the blog post says that you'll be convering existing branches to bzr 2a
<wgrant> micahg: Ah, that's just imported branches (those converted from CVS, SVN or Git).
<wgrant> And anything since bzr 1.16 can read 2a.
<wgrant> (and I'm not in the 'you')
<micahg> sorry
<micahg> meant LP
<micahg> ok
<micahg> and it said it'll be converting older stuff too
<wgrant> "Weâre also starting to upgrade existing *imported* branches to the new format." [emphasis mine]
<micahg> ah
<bac> slangasek: i just saw you on the webcast.  you're famous
<slangasek> bac: mwuh?
<slangasek> I mean, sure I'm famous, but what webcast is this? :-)
<bac> slangasek: are you not at the keynote just now?
<slangasek> yes
<slangasek> sitting at the back
<bac> yep, that was you.
<slangasek> oh goody
<quentusrex> how do I force dput to upload the orig file?
<quentusrex> it isn't uploading it currently....
<lifeless> you don't
<quentusrex> lifeless: I need to...
<lifeless> you tell debuild to include it in the build
<lifeless> with -sa
<lifeless> but you shouldn't generally need to do that. Why do you think you need to?
<quentusrex> lifeless: it's already been build and created, but dput isn't uploading it...
<quentusrex> and it's getting rejected because launchpad can't find it.
<quentusrex> I'm uploading a package to a new ppa....
<lifeless> is the package in Ubuntu?
<quentusrex> no
<lifeless> do you have more than one changelog entry?
<wgrant> quentusrex: What does dput say when you try to upload? That it's already been uploaded?
<quentusrex> yes
<quentusrex> wgrant: dput doesn't say anything about it... just uploads the diff
<lifeless> quentusrex: then you need to supply -v
<lifeless> quentusrex: because you're actually uploading many versions
<lifeless> or -sa as I said earlier, but -sa should only be needed in exceptional circumstances
<wgrant> /win/win 3
<wgrant> Argh. Lag.
<zsquareplusc> and where is the page to change the images/branding of a project hidden in the new design?
<wgrant> zsquareplusc: It's hidden down the bottom of 'Change details'.
<wgrant> zsquareplusc: It'll hopefully be a bit more obvious once the CSS is fixed.
<zsquareplusc> ahh. i was on that page but did not realize the extra links at the bottom
* Chex changed the topic of #launchpad to: Read https://help.launchpad.net for help | Help contact: - | Join https://launchpad.net/~launchpad-users | This channel is logged: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | Launchpad is open source: see channel #launchpad-dev
<RenatoSilva> hello new launchpad \o/
<cyberix> \o/
<cyberix> I was going to sleep, but I was too excited
<RenatoSilva> haha
<Ursinha> RenatoSilva, see how beautiful it is now :D
<cyberix> I like it a lto
<cyberix> a lot
<cyberix> but the multiple (i) links on my personal page kinda confuse me
<cyberix> https://launchpad.net/~toni-ruottu
<cyberix> Specially when I start clicking on them
<wgrant> It is a bit confusing, especially as some of them are shown when they contain nothing.
<RenatoSilva> yes!
<RenatoSilva> things are a bit spred
<cyberix> Also I'm not sure, if it is a good idea to have "Participation" box on a user profile look like a "Get Involved" box
<cyberix> Using similar visual for two different things may turn out to confuse users
<thumper> mtaylor: hi
<mtaylor> hey thumper
<thumper> mtaylor: do you still have anything to do with sun or mysql?
<thumper> mtaylor: oh, my LCA talk on using LP for code reviews got accepted
<mtaylor> thumper: yes and no ... working at Sun on the Drizzle project, which is sort of a cousin of mysql, but I'm not a part of the MySQL Organization there anymore
<mtaylor> thumper: awesome
<mtaylor> thumper: my LCA talk on pandora-build got accepted, so I guess I'll see you there!
<thumper> mtaylor: ah, ok
<thumper> mtaylor: cool
<thumper> mtaylor: I added you as a stakeholder representitive
<mtaylor> thumper: did you do the new "Resubmit proposal" link? if so, thanks!
<mtaylor> thumper: sweet
<thumper> mtaylor: on https://dev.launchpad.net/VersionFourDotO/Code
<thumper> mtaylor: abentley fixed the resubmit
<mtaylor> abentley: thanks
<thumper> mtaylor: more fixes in that area coming
<thumper> mtaylor: it was kinda hard to decide on project stakeholders, but I know you use the code review stuff a lot
<thumper> mtaylor: so I added you
<mtaylor> thumper: oh yeah - gosh, like, everyday
<thumper> mtaylor: do you understand the 3 wishes concepts?
<thumper> mtaylor: you have three wishes at any time
<thumper> mtaylor: if we fix one, you get another
<mtaylor> thumper: sweet
<thumper> mtaylor: tell us your 3 top priority things to do with LP Code
<thumper> mtaylor: we add this into our priority mixing bowl and see what comes out
<thumper> mtaylor: you could add Jay as a reprentitve too, but between you you only get three wishes (not three each :)
<mtaylor> thumper: that's fair - it's likely that our wishes are about the same
<thumper> :)
<mtaylor> thumper: I'll chat with him though and see if we can hash out a good top three list there
<thumper> I thought they might be
<thumper> kk
<Meths> Hmmm, anyone else getting dodgy CSS layouts with v3?
<thumper> Meths: I did originally, I think that was fixed, try Ctrl-F5 to refresh
<Meths> Nope, every screen is too wide with a horizontal scroll bar (FF 3.5.3 - 1440 wide screen!)
<micahg> Meths: at 1300px Bugs no longer has a scrollbar
<micahg> it does seem a little weird that they'd require > 1024x768
<micahg> especially with the proliferation of netbooks
<Meths> Well right now I'm looking at the code homepage for a project and the header and footer areas look fine but the table of branches is off the screen with each column far wider than the text they contain.
<wgrant> Links?
<wgrant> And which browser?
<wgrant> Branch listings scale fine for me.
<Meths> FF3.5.3 on XP.  Any project code page e.g. https://code.launchpad.net/launchpad
<wgrant> I get a horizontal scrollbar on there when I drop my window below about 700px wide.
<RenatoSilva> my target branch of translation system is overwritting the '#, python-format' lines! how to fix this?
<Meths> It looks like the main section is setting its width to the width of the screen but then gets shifted by the left margin.
<Meths> wgrant: are you on a similar browser?
<wgrant> Meths: Firefox 3.5.3 on Ubuntu.
<Meths> one sec...
<wgrant> Chromium does the same.
<Meths> My Ubuntu Firefox looks fine.
<RenatoSilva> guys can't lose those #, python format lines :(
<wgrant> RenatoSilva: What do you mean?
<RenatoSilva> wgrant: sorry! I've just checked, it seems that they are not lost, but I wonder why did lp commited to the output trunk when I had no changes in translations, from both ui and source branch :(
<wgrant> RenatoSilva: 'cause it does that. I think that might have been fixed in 3.0, though.
<RenatoSilva> does lp export translations once a day even if there's nop change to commit?
<wgrant> It did, yes.
<RenatoSilva> but now is fixed, ok
<wgrant> I think so, but I'm not sure.
<RenatoSilva> well, I think that's annoying to have, say, 30 commits for no change at all (considering that your translation keeps 1 month unchanged)
<RenatoSilva> don't get how no one have noted this :)
<wgrant> They did.
<RenatoSilva> btw, I hate how .pos are not kept in order by gettext.. I simply can't compare the new po with the old one!
<RenatoSilva> and I don't know any diff tool that does a semantic diff
<RenatoSilva> hopefully the file is not big, it seems that the messages were just reordered (bah!) and a few new comments/metadata appeared
<RenatoSilva> hum in fact they weren't reordered, but \r\n was replaced by \n! Is there any option in translation system for avoiding this?
<lifeless> RenatoSilva: .po files aren't useful to compare though; .pot files are, and msmerge marks things needed review.
<RenatoSilva> lifeless: how about po files of the same language
<RenatoSilva> lifeless: also, order of pot files aren't kept by gettext either
<lifeless> xgettext should be pretty deterministic
<RenatoSilva> afaik I mean, if it keeps order in pot, why not keep in pos also
<RenatoSilva> is there any way to ignore spaces / tabs /line-break style on bzr diff?
<RenatoSilva> sorry wrong channel
<RenatoSilva> Are there good reasons for keeping merged branches in launchpad?
<RenatoSilva> I'm having a feeling of deleting the branch right after merging it into trunk :)
<wgrant> The merge proposals, bugs and blueprint links associated with them.
<RenatoSilva> there isn't a way to automatically redirect these items to the target branch where it ended up into?
<wgrant> A merge proposal is a link between two branches, so that doesn't make sense.
<wgrant> Why delete them?
<RenatoSilva> why keep them? :)
<RenatoSilva> btw, the one I want to delete has a related bug
<RenatoSilva> it will disappear from the bug, but I don't see any problem with this atm
<RenatoSilva> btw, when you set status of a bug as 'fix committed', is it reffering to the linked branch that is fixing it, or to the trunk?
<wgrant> It's meant to mean trunk.
<wgrant> But projects use it different.
<RenatoSilva> wgrant: ok I'll change the status then, because it is solved on the linked branch but wasn't actually merged into trunk yet
<spiv> RenatoSilva: well, would you want to delete a bug report once a bug is fixed?
<RenatoSilva> I think I would :)
<spiv> !
<spiv> Ok, if you really dislike keeping history that much, why are you using revision control at all? ;)
<RenatoSilva> if commit comment can summarize the bug well :)
<spiv> Commit comments aren't very good for e.g. generating statistics about bugs closed over time.
 * RenatoSilva needs to visit the analyst
<RenatoSilva> spiv: ok the branches work as documentation of the bug, real code telling you how it was fixed at that moment ok
<RenatoSilva> spiv: it's just a feeling that branch's mission is done and it must die now :D
<spiv> It'll be hidden by default when merged, just like fixed bugs are hidden by default.
<wgrant> There is the disk space problem, but that should be pretty small with stacked branches, particularly if some robot goes over merged branches and removes duplicated revisions.
<RenatoSilva> spiv: not automatically though, I have to change status iirc
<spiv> wgrant: right, that's Launchpad's problem, not the user's :)
<wgrant> RenatoSilva: No, it will be automatically marked Merged and hidden when it is merged into the development focus.
<spiv> RenatoSilva: no
<spiv> RenatoSilva: (but deletion wouldn't be automatic either)
<RenatoSilva> but how will lp know it was merged? I mean, I bzr branch trunk, cd trunk and bzr merge ..\branched_previously, and bzr push $trunk
<RenatoSilva> to get it checked as merged automatically I have to directly merge with lp url right
<wgrant> LP will notice that the branch's tip is in trunk's ancestry.
<wgrant> Why would you have to do that?
<RenatoSilva> because I didn't know LP notices that
<RenatoSilva> smarty LP :)
 * RenatoSilva 's feature branch has only one commit. He's wondering whether repeat the message on merging or user 'merge from lp...feature-branch'
<RenatoSilva> * or use
<RenatoSilva> there's another problem with keeping the branches
<RenatoSilva> you can't use the same name anymore !
<RenatoSilva> for example I had 2 encoding-fixes a time ago, fixing 2 or more different  bugs
<RenatoSilva> the oldest bug is now pointing to a branch that actually has nothing to do with it
<RenatoSilva> unless when you overwrite/delete a branch the link disappears from all items
<wgrant> It doesn't. But I normally have the bug number in my branch names anyway.
<RenatoSilva> well it's worth to be reported as a bug itself though :)
<RenatoSilva> so, the new branch will automatically have the old bug listed on it (as it is a two-way linking)
<wgrant> It's not a new branch.
<RenatoSilva> how if I have merged encoding-fixes and I have another bug completyely different, but it is also related to encodings?
<wgrant> I don't know.
<RenatoSilva> If I don't change the name, I have to delete old encofing-fixes
<wgrant> I haven't run into such a situation ey.
<wgrant> s/ey/yet/
<RenatoSilva> me neither, but it seems worth attention
<RenatoSilva> we have poteltially considerable ammount of bugs pointing to branches that actually have nothing to do with them
<RenatoSilva> and I wonder about my example too, I'd like to find it and know how they are now
<spiv> RenatoSilva: you could rename the old branch to encoding-fixes-old or encoding-fixes-Sep-09 if you really want.
<RenatoSilva> yeah that's a solution
<RenatoSilva> or using sequencies like encoding-fixes-2, 3 etc
<spiv> Right.
<RenatoSilva> or have bug ids encoding-fixes_bug12345
<spiv> Right, as wgrant suggested.
<RenatoSilva> I think a clearer solution is more suitable imho, although I can't think of one atm. However wgrant's suggestion it pretty fine. I misread it, thought it was on description
<wgrant> I use bug-12345 to avoid horrible underscores, but something like that.
<RenatoSilva> ok thank you guys
<RenatoSilva> is it non-recommended to link a bug directly with trunk, for example too simple fixes that you commit directly to trunk...
<wgrant> I don't think anyone knows.
<RenatoSilva> the problem is to know which revision fixed it
<wgrant> It seems a bit ugly to have them all listed, but you should have that information in there.
<RenatoSilva> I'm thinking of linking it with trunk, and comment on the bug something like 'fixed in trunk by rev 123'
<wgrant> Do you know about 'bzr commit --fixes'?
<RenatoSilva> reading help now
<wgrant> bzr commit --fixes lp:12345 -m "Blah blah blah."
<RenatoSilva> nice
<RenatoSilva> very nice :)
<RenatoSilva> so if I'm on the bug page and I want to know which revision on the linked trunk has fixed it I have just to do a search on the history, nice
<wgrant> It should really link you to it.
<wgrant> But it doesn't yet.
<RenatoSilva> how would lp do that? seek for bug id in the history? that would be very slow I think
<wgrant> It already links between bugs and branches.
<spiv> Launchpad already indexes various info from branch history.
<wgrant> It just needs to throw in an optional revision too.
<wgrant> It would be pretty easy, I think.
<RenatoSilva> wgrant: ah ok
<RenatoSilva> wgrant: and --fixes could activate LP plugin which would fill in that field in bug report :)
<wgrant> Yeah, linking in the revision would be really easy to do.
<wgrant> Any Code guys know why it isn't already done?
<spiv> wgrant: lack of tuits, probably...
<wgrant> Oh, that's a bzr revision, not an LP Revision. Damn.
<spiv> Oh, I see what you're asking.  Yeah.
<RenatoSilva> LP revision?
<suji> hi
<suji> i upload a package to ppa, it was uploaded successfully, where it is available?
<tonyyarusso> suji: Usually they take a few hours to build.
<suji> tonyyarusso: i upload yesterday.
<tonyyarusso> ah
<tonyyarusso> suji: what's your LP ID?
<suji> LP ID means username?
<tonyyarusso> yeah
<tonyyarusso> suji: and did you upload to your personal PPA, or a project one?
<suji> tonyyarusso: my personal ppa.
<tonyyarusso> suji: are you sure it uploaded successfully?
<suji> ya
<wgrant> Unless you catch things at a bad time, packages will normally start building within 5 minutes.
<suji> tonyyarusso: Again i give the dput command, i got this message. This package is available at ppa.launchpad.net
<wgrant> suji: Did you get an email from Launchpad about the package?
<wgrant> suji: "Already uploaded to ppa.launchpad.net."?
<suji> wgrant: i didn't get any email.
<wgrant> suji: That almost always means you didn't sign the package properly.
<wgrant> suji: Are you ~suji on Launchpad?
<suji> wgrant: how to search ppa.launchpad.net for my package?
<wgrant> suji: It's not there.
<suji> wgrant: ~suji87-msc
<tonyyarusso> suji: it would be at https://edge.launchpad.net/~suji/+ppa-packages if it was
<tonyyarusso> ...
<tonyyarusso> or that
<wgrant> OK.
<wgrant> So, you have an OpenPGP key. That's half of it.
<wgrant> Did you sign the package with that key?
<suji> wgrant: yes
<wgrant> suji: Run 'gpg < WHATEVER_source.changes', obvious replacing WHATEVER with the proper name.
<wgrant> What's the second last line of that?
<suji> wgrant: WHATEVER means the package name ?
<wgrant> suji: PACKAGENAME_VERSION_source.changes. There will be a file named like that.
<suji> wgrant: ya i gave that command
<suji> wgrant: can i send the output in pastebin?
<wgrant> suji: A good idea.
<suji> wgrant: http://pastebin.com/m248ba4b2
<suji> wgrant: i think, i made some mistake it seems
<wgrant> #
<wgrant> gpg: Signature made Wed 23 Sep 2009 09:36:24 AM IST using DSA key ID 4556E442
<wgrant> OpenPGP keys: 187EEF40
<wgrant> That's not the same key.
<wgrant> Do you still have 187EEF40?
<RenatoSilva> thank you guys
<suji> wgrant: yes just now i saw that.
<suji> Can upload the package again i sign the package with proper key?
<wgrant> Yes.
<wgrant> You'll need to use 'dput -f', though.
<suji> wgrant: oh!  okey
<suji> wgrant: i will do that, Thank you:)
<wgrant> suji: np
<wgrant> LP really should give you better feedback in the case where the upload isn't properly signed, but there's no safe way to do it just yet.
<mwhudson> sftp upload woo
<lifeless> ?
<wgrant> Killing poppy.
<wgrant> And replacing it with an intelligent SFTP server that immediately processes uploads.
<wgrant> And gives useful feedback in-band.
<wgrant> So is less user-hostile.
<lifeless> done, or planned?
<wgrant> Planned.
<wgrant> Vaguely.
<mwhudson> a bonus would be not falling over all the time too i guess
<wgrant> That too.
<spiv> wgrant: well, if you want an intelligent SFTP server to crib from there's always codehosting...
<wgrant> spiv: That was my plan if I ever got around to it.
<RenatoSilva> is there a way to extract changelog from the code to fill in the release changelog automatically?
<spiv> RenatoSilva: "bzr log --gnu-changelog ..."
<spiv> (And plugins can add new log formats)
<RenatoSilva> spiv: no, I mean, when you release a milestone in LP, you can put a release notes and/or changelog
<RenatoSilva> spiv: but inside the code I already have a README.TXT
<spiv> Oh, right.  Not sure, sorry.
<suji> wgrant: hi, i upload the package but also i got rejected mail with the reason of PPA uploads must be signed by an Ubuntu Code of Conduct signer. what to do?
<RenatoSilva> spiv: so I'd copy & paste, but I want to know if it can be automated
<wgrant> suji: Sign the Ubuntu Code of Conduct.
<spiv> RenatoSilva: I don't know of a builtin feature to do that, but it would be nice to have one.
<wgrant> suji: Let me find the instructions.
<RenatoSilva> spiv: in main LP page of old version I saw something about it
<wgrant> suji: Try https://launchpad.net/codeofconduct
<RenatoSilva> spiv: automatic import of release notes or so, just like translation system does with po files
<spiv> RenatoSilva: I suppose it might not be too hard to write something using the LP API to automate it, too...
<suji> wgrant: In that page it shows you already signed.
<spiv> RenatoSilva: yeah, quite possibly.  As I say, I don't really know either way.
<RenatoSilva> spiv: can't find a link now
<wgrant> suji: It doesn't look like it to me. Who are you logged in as?
<wgrant> I wonder if you have multiple accounts.
<RenatoSilva> spiv: you could put something like start, content and finish regex, then LP would scan README-like files to show it it dyamically
<suji> wgrant: i logged in as using my id.
<wgrant> suji: What is the URL linked to by your name in the top right of the page?
<suji> wgrant: https://launchpad.net/~suji87-msc this is my URL
<wgrant> suji: That page advises me that you haven't signed the Code of Conduct.
<suji> wgrant: can i send a screenshot to you?
<wgrant> suji: Sure.
<suji> wgrant: your mail id?
<wgrant> suji: https://launchpad.net/~wgrant
<wgrant> My email address should be there.
<suji> wgrant: i send the mail to your ubuntu mail id.
<wgrant> suji: Oh, that just means you've added a key. You need to follow steps 2 and 3.
<suji> wgrant: ok, i do that.
<wgrant> suji: Then upload again, and all should be good.
<suji> wgrant: ok
<suji> wgrant: i upload my package, and got accepted mail from launchpad. Thank you:)
<wgrant> suji: Excellent!
<wgrant> suji: Now let's hope it builds.
<wgrant> Failed :(
<suji> wgrant: ya i got another mail with this subject [Build #1259205] amd64 build of iok 1.3.6-0ubuntu1 in ubuntu karmic RELEASE (suji87-msc PPA)
<suji> wgrant: i send that mail to you. What is the mistake in that?
<wgrant> suji: i can see the log online.
<wgrant> checking for intltool >= 0.35.0... ./configure: line 5852: intltool-update: command not found
<wgrant> That's the error.
<wgrant> You need to add intltool to your Build-Depends line.
<suji> wgrant: ok
<suji> wgrant: in control file?
<wgrant> suji: Yes.
<suji> wgrant: just i add intltool or should add with the version?
<wgrant> suji: Just intltool.
<suji> wgrant: k i added
<suji> wgrant: again i build the package and send to ppa, i'm right?
<wgrant> suji: Yes. But you must increase the version number.
<suji> wgrant: Is the command dch -i to increase the version?
<wgrant> suji: Yes.
<wgrant> suji: But make sure that the version it produces makes sense.
<suji> wgrant: after i give command the version is changed in the changlog file as iok (1.3.6-0ubuntu2), is this ok?
<suji> wgrant: now how to i upload this, using dput or dput -f  ?
<wgrant> suji: dput -f will work, but the -f is unnecessary.
<suji> wgrant: what should i give now?
<wgrant> suji: Just dput.
<suji> wgrant: ok, is the version number is ok?
<wgrant> suji: Not really, but it's too late for that now. Normally you would have you first version as something like -0ubuntu1~ppa1
<suji> wgrant: oh! now it make any problem?
<wgrant> suji: It's just a bit confusing.
<suji> wgrant: what?
<wgrant> suji: It won't cause any problems, but it makes it look like it's a real Ubuntu package.
<suji> wgrant: oh! hm...
<suji> wgrant: i got accepted mail.
<Amaranth> hmm, edge having problems right now or does it just hate me? getting timeouts when trying to edit bug status
<suji> wgrant: Again i got faild to build mail
<suji> wgrant: Now what to do?
<wgrant> suji: Look at the log and find the error.
<eday> Hi! It seems that there is a merge request email stuck in a loop somewhere. I've gotten about 30 of them in the past few minutes (Drizzle project, status changed from review->merged)
<eday> Here's a sample: http://pastebin.com/m2f895bba  (email addresses partially removed)
<lifeless> thumper: ^ aware of this?
<spm> eday: are they all the *exact* same? ie line 9 - the messageid?
<eday> spm: msg ID's differ between each
<spm> cool. that helps a bit.
<eday> spm: they also appear to be almost exactly 3 minutes apart
<spm> eday: blech. that sounds familiar....
<spm> eday: we seem to be identifing the problem... solving/cause underway.
<eday> spm: cool! heading off now, hopefully my mbox isn't full tomorrow :)
<spm> heh
* allenap changed the topic of #launchpad to: Read https://help.launchpad.net for help | Help contact: allenap | Join https://launchpad.net/~launchpad-users | This channel is logged: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | Launchpad is open source: see channel #launchpad-dev
<spm> eday: should be fixed. you may have got some more emails; but hopefully! no more than 1 or 2 from now.
<aquarius> If I create a new project on launchpad, it says "You haven't yet told Launchpad where your source code is for $PROJECT trunk series", and then invites me to import the code from svn, or nominate a bzr branch, or push the branch directly to Launchpad
<aquarius> what if I've just got some code in a folder on my hard drive? How do I make that code a bzr checkout? I suspect quite a few people will be in that position -- haven't got the code in any SCM, want to push to launchpad -- and the page doesn't help you understand how :(
<aquarius> having an empty trunk bzr branch created so you can "bzr branch" it and then import your code into it would be very useful
<aquarius> since I am now stuck :)
<jml> aquarius, except that works rather poorly for projects that already have bazaar branches.
<aquarius> jml, it does say fairly clearly what to do if you already have a bzr branch
<aquarius> it just doesn't cover the situation where you *don't* have a bzr branch or a git branch or an svn branch
<aquarius> i.e., LP basically assumes that you were already using source control before you came to launchpad!
<jml> aquarius, I mean, if we create an empty branch unconditionally, then when you push up your already-existing bzr branch, bzr gets all precious about pushing over an existing branch
<aquarius> oh, right, gotcha
<aquarius> and I think there will be quite a few people in the situation I'm in where they've been building something themselves and then think "I would like to create a project on launchpad for this so other people can buy in"
<jml> aquarius, I very much agree with the diagnosis though.
<aquarius> so perhaps an extra instruction?
<jml> aquarius, yeah, I think that would be a good thing.
<aquarius> in the interim, if you could tell *me* how to do it, I'll do it, and then I'll file a bug with proposed wording changes for that page ;)
<jml> aquarius, in the directory with your code,
<jml> 'bzr init'
<jml> 'bzr add'
<jml> 'bzr commit -m "Initial import"'
<jml> 'bzr push lp:~aquarius/your-project/trunk'
<aquarius> aha, I do need bzr-init, that's what I thought :)
<aquarius> bug 435737 filed :)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 435737 in launchpad "Give instructions for creating the first bzr trunk for new projects" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/435737
<aquarius> could actually make that change myself, I suppose, since it's just textual, but I'd have to get over the hurdle of "having an LP checkout", which I have not done yet :)
<aquarius> OK, now pushed to lp:~sil/$PROJECT/trunk -- do I now need to link that branch to the trunk series of the project?
<tuukkah> anyone else not getting a submit button for adding a comment today? i'm not getting one on karmic's firefox anymore
<tuukkah> nevermind, i suppose it was a network error as it went away with shift+reload, and the button is set visible by an external js file
<mpt> Oh, awesome, I can change a bug's status and then change its assignee before the status change has even finished registering, and it all works
<wgrant> Just don't quickly close the bug page... I've lost changes a few times that way.
<suji> wgrant: hi, after made some changes in my package again i upload that, i received accepted mail only
<suji> wgrant: i didn't get the build mail yet...
<wgrant> suji: The last upload failed to build
<wgrant> https://launchpad.net/~suji87-msc/+archive/ppa/+packages
<suji> wgrant: but i didn't get any mail with the build log, then how to resolve the problem.
<wgrant> suji: You would have been emailed about it. Sure it didn't end up in your spam folder?
<wgrant> suji: Even if you didn't get it, you can get the build logs from the above URL.
<suji> wgrant: i found the mistake in it and correct it. Without upload the package how to find the mistake if any?
<wgrant> suji: See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto
<suji> wgrant: when i run pbuilder i got this, http://pastebin.com/m6c269637
<wgrant> suji: At this point you're probably better off asking for packaging help in #ubuntu-motu.
<popey> uhm
<popey> wasnt launchpad upgraded last night? to 3.0?
<popey> "Launchpad 2.2.7 (r8513)  beta site "
<mrevell> thanks popey
<mrevell> popey: I'll make sure that gets fixed for our second roll-out tomorrow.
<popey> np mrevell
<popey> that was on edge btw
<mrevell> popey: yeah, version number only shows on edge AFAIK
<popey> gotcha
<popey>  Launchpad 2.2.7 (r8513)
<popey> on the main site :)
<popey> (in the source)
<allenap> danilos: Have you seen this - https://answers.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/82307 - question? The last comment has a link to a translations page which contains a link that 404s (and refers to a deleted branch).
<danilos> allenap: answered
<allenap> danilos: Thanks!
<allenap> danilos: Was that a bug? If a branch is deleted, should translations related to it be deactivated too?
<danilos> allenap: not really, you can have translations without branches
<allenap> danilos: Okay, thanks.
<allenap> sinzui: Do you have 5 minutes to answer a question? https://answers.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/83148. I'm getting confused between series, milestones and releases, especially the latter two.
<sinzui> allenap: I'll answer it ow
<sinzui> now
<allenap> sinzui: Thanks.
<pro-rsoft> https://help.launchpad.net/PPATermsofUse << Does this also apply when I create an "installer" package which grabs the precompiled library from the publisher's website upon installing?
<pro-rsoft> or does it only apply to the deb package itself
<allenap> bigjools or another soyuz dude: Can you see if you can help the person in https://answers.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/83327? I would try, but I don't know what much of it means :/
<noodles775> allenap: sure.
<allenap> noodles775: Thanks!
<james_w> "
<james_w> You are not a member of this team.
<james_w> You are an indirect member of this team: "
<james_w> seems rather contradictory
<kiko-phone> heh
<allenap> henninge: Hi there, can I assign https://answers.edge.launchpad.net/rosetta/+question/83585 to you please?
<henninge> allenap: best to assign to rosetta-administrators, that will notify all of us and someone will pick it up.
<allenap> henninge: Okay, thanks.
<__lucio__> Good morning, http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mysql/mysql-server/mysql-4.1/changes -> Sorry, there was a problem connecting to the Launchpad server. If the problem persists, let us know in the #launchpad. It persists.
<smoser> anyone else see this text-wrapping issue that i'm seeing ? its quite annoying.  bug 435905
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 435905 in launchpad "text comments are wrapped poorly, making them hard to read confusing" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/435905
<allenap> abentley: Could you have a look at https://answers.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/83707 please? Looks like a bug.
<abentley> allenap: I don't think it's related to code.
<allenap> abentley: Sorry, I fail.
<abentley> allenap: no worries.
<allenap> sinzui: I have, I think, a question about a registry problem. Do you mind taking a look? https://answers.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/83707
<allenap> smoser: I'm going to comment on that bug.
<geser> mpt: you mentioned in bug 390233 that paragraphs have a width of 60 ems. Did it change? as I found it set to 45ems while looking at bug 435905
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 390233 in malone "Text on bugs details page doesn't use full width" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/390233
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 435905 in launchpad "text comments are wrapped poorly, making them hard to read confusing" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/435905
<mpt> geser, I don't know, sorry
<mpt> geser, that would explain why paragraphs look a little *too* narrow now though :-)
<mpt> geser, you could use Firebug to find out
<geser> mpt: who could know it?
<mpt> geser, beuno would
<beuno> geser, mpt, yes, it's an issue with the inline editing widget
<beuno> deryck, is it on your plate to fix?
<deryck> beuno, what bug?
<beuno> deryck, the multi-line editor being a bit small, and absolute sized
<deryck> beuno, yes.  one of those that was targeted this release, but didn't make it.  definitely will for 3.1.10, early in the cycle.
<beuno> super
<deryck> probably work on description bugs on the flight to London actually ;)
<beuno> a lot of Launchpad's code has been developed in the air
<geser> is that good or bad?
<jblount> deryck: statik told me a story once of sabdfl coming off a plane flight with a branch ready for review.
<beuno> deryck, it's "cool"
<deryck> :)
<geser> beuno: you sure you commented on the right bug? does the comment really belongs to bug 390233 and not bug 435905?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 390233 in malone "Text on bugs details page doesn't use full width" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/390233
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 435905 in launchpad "text comments are wrapped poorly, making them hard to read confusing" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/435905
<beuno> geser, maybe
<sinzui> allenap: that is not a bug. we cannot really delete a series, we can only give it to some other project.
<allenap> sinzui: Do you know what he was doing then?
<allenap> sinzui: I mean, it seems that he thought he was deleting it.
<sinzui> Deleting a series deletes the subordinate objects and move the series to another project (obsolete-junk). The user has gone obsolete junk, then tried todelete that.
<sinzui> allenap: there is an open bug we did not get to during the UI update to explain  what will happen.
<allenap> sinzui: Okay, cool. Thanks for explaining :)
<Fly-Man-> Morning
<Fly-Man-> Is there someone availabel to check a vcs import ?
<Fly-Man-> https://code.launchpad.net/~vcs-imports/fusionforge/trunk
<mrevell> Fly-Man-: allenap can help you with that
<Fly-Man-> mrevell: thanks :)
<allenap> Fly-Man-: I'll have a look in a bit. I'm just in a meeting for a few minutes more :)
<Fly-Man-> morning allenap, could you check if the import can be done
<Fly-Man-> thanks :)
<bac> mrevell: hi
<mrevell> hi bac
<bac> mrevell: where is your MP?  we need to get it reviewed and into PQM
<mrevell> bac: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~bac/launchpad/lp-blog/+merge/12351
<mrevell> bac: it's in the queue
<bac> in the review queue?
<lantash1> can somebody please approve the items in this import queue: https://translations.edge.launchpad.net/lottanzb/0.5/+imports
<lantash1> the automatic bazaar import didn't find the second template in help/po.
<allenap> Fly-Man-: Sorry, I'm on another call right now. abentley, could you help Fly-Man- out please?
<Fly-Man-> allenap: That's okay, i'll wait until someone approves it :)
<dreamcat4> hi
<dreamcat4> Does launchpad understand any markup language like TEXTILE or MARKDOWN ?
<beuno> not for now, no
<dreamcat4> okay
<dreamcat4> just wanted to make my project home page a little more readable
<allenap> Fly-Man-: For svn imports, we only support importing trunk. I'll change the branch URL to svn://scm.fusionforge.org/svnroot/fusionforge/trunk. That okay?
<plars> is there a way for a team to automatically be subscribed to bugs for a certain package?  Not just subscribed to the bugmail, but subscribed in such a way so that the bug shows up in the bugs category for that team?
<allenap> Fly-Man-: I'll assume yes then :) If there's any problem, ping me or ask a question at https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad-code/+addquestion
<atrus> this may not be precisely on-topic.... but is there a way to ensure that when I submit a bug via apport, I get subscribed to it? Ideally, tied to my launchpad account? it seems to be entirely anonymous currently...
<allenap> abentley: Unping; I was able to sort it out.
<allenap> atrus: Do you have a bug number?
<plars> atrus: you should automatically be subscribed to any bug you open, even with apport
<allenap> atrus: What plars said.
<atrus> plars: how does it know what my launchpad username/password is?
<atrus> or even my email address for that matter
<allenap> plars: They could be marked as bug supervisor. That might work.
<plars> atrus: when you open the bug with apport, it brings up a web browser and asks you to login if you are not already
<atrus> plars: hmm. that didn't seem to happen when I submitted a bug.
<plars> allenap: that probably isn't the best idea here, it's just a team that wants to be notified and have them all available on a list for triage purposes
<plars> atrus: bug #?
<allenap> rockstar: If a project with branches is renamed, will old branch urls all break?
<atrus> plars: i don't know, since I never got any feedback about the bug :)
<atrus> plars: is there a straightforward way to submit a 'testing' bug?
<plars> atrus: then the bug was probably never opened
<plars> atrus: could you possibly just not have noticed the web browser come up so that you could complete the submission?
<allenap> plars: If you subscribe a team to package bug mail, would https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/~team-name/+subscribedbugs work?
<plars> allenap: apparently not, hence the question :)
<atrus> plars: it's possible. if i recieved an email as a result of apport, would there be anything distinctive about the email that would suggest it was filed automatically?
<plars> allenap: I don't see any bugs listed under that for the team
<allenap> plars: Ah :)
<rockstar> allenap, well, if you try to push to that old url, yes.
<allenap> rockstar: Will pulls break too?
<plars> atrus: it's not quite "fire and forget" to open a bug, even with apport.  It still asks you to login, fill in some optional info, confirm that it's not one of a  few already opened bugs that show up as similar, etc
<allenap> rockstar: Or can they be redirected?
<rockstar> allenap, yeah, they probably break as well.
<atrus> plars: hm. okay, attempting to file a bug against apport behaved that way. maybe firefox crashed or something. (shrug). thanks!
<allenap> atrus: Assuming your user name is atrus, Launchpad will show you every bug you've filed at https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/~atrus/+reportedbugs
<allenap> rockstar: Thanks.
<allenap> plars: I'm afraid I don't know how to solve your problem, but it's likely that someone on the team does. Can you ask a question at https://answers.launchpad.net/malone/+addquestion and we'll try and figure it out?
<plars> allenap: sure, thanks, just thought I'd try here first
<allenap> plars: Cool. I would have tried to get you an answer here, but I have to go very soon.
<plars> allenap: I mean, it's not *terrible* the way it is, I can at least get a +packagebugs on it and it will give me a breakdown of the open, critical, unassigned, in progress bugs for all the packages the team is subscribed to
<plars> allenap: I was just hoping for a regular list of bugs that I could sort and whatnot though
<allenap> plars: Please mention that in any question you file.
<davidstrauss> Is there a way to force the file collector thing to run?
<beuno> davidstrauss, file collector thing?
<davidstrauss> beuno: The tool that looks for your project files on another server.
<davidstrauss> beuno: And downloads/posts them.
<beuno> davidstrauss, ah, right. "product release finder"
<beuno> no, it runs on a cron AFAIK
<beuno> but sinzui knows about it
<davidstrauss> sinzui: ping
<beuno> davidstrauss, what is it you need to acomplish?
<sinzui> hi davidstrauss
<davidstrauss> beuno: It hadn't been finding the files. I just made directories listings available for that server, and I want to see if that fixes it.
<davidstrauss> beuno: And I don't know what schedule it runs on.
<beuno> sinzui does
<davidstrauss> sinzui: Hi. I'm trying to troubleshoot the product release finder for lp:pressflow.
<sinzui> davidstrauss: series 6.x?
<davidstrauss> sinzui: and 5.x
<sinzui> davidstrauss: The 6 pattern looks good. When did you set it?
<davidstrauss> sinzui: A long time ago, but I only made directory listings available today.
<davidstrauss> sinzui: Does it require a directory listing to do the pattern matches?
<sinzui> it does a director listing from the path before the last /, so it uses http://files.pressflow.org/
<sinzui> davidstrauss: It then reads each file and matches it to pressflow-6.*.*.tar.gz where '*' is an number of characters.
<davidstrauss> sinzui: OK. It would be helpful to document that somewhere.
<davidstrauss> sinzui: How often does the cron run for this?
<abentley> allenap: Sorry, was lunching.
<sinzui> davidstrauss: We are adding inline documentation in October (this next release) It will be in the form where you set this. It will be on the wiki, and we will link to the form and wiki from the upload form too since that may be more conveninet.
<sinzui> davidstrauss: The PRF runs every 24 hours.
<davidstrauss> sinzui: That's all I need to know. Thanks!
<\u03b5> hm..
<\u03b5> https://code.launchpad.net/~armagetronad-dev/armagetronad/trunk-armagetronad-work
<\u03b5> I'm not sure the new layout fits
<\u03b5> also, I would like to see Registrant under the page's title, it would be more visible
<soc1> hi
<soc1> looks like launchpad has changed its design abit?!
<soc1> btw, how can i change my email address?
<Fly-Man-> allenap: Yes, that's the right url
<Fly-Man-> allenap: Thank you for changing it
 * Fly-Man- was eating outdoors and returned now
<Fly-Man-> abentley, allenap: Again the SVN import on a project failed
<Fly-Man-> What keeps causing this ?
<abentley> Fly-Man-: Which import is failing?
<Fly-Man-> abentley: this one
<Fly-Man-> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~launchpad-pqm/launchpad/devel
<Fly-Man-> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/32378894/fusionforge-trunk-log.txt
<Fly-Man-> As always, the same error that I have seen many times on other Launchpad project I managed
<abentley> Fly-Man-: It looks like the remote server terminated the connection.
<Fly-Man-> after 1 hour ?
<Fly-Man-> I am not surprised
<Fly-Man-> pysvn._pysvn_2_4.ClientError: Connection closed unexpectedly
<Fly-Man-> Client is Launchpad
<abentley> Fly-Man-: Indeed, the client is launchpad.  What makes you say 1 hour?
<Fly-Man-> abentley: As it finished 2 mins on this one
<Fly-Man-> but I have one that takes 1 hour
<Fly-Man-> then fails
<Fly-Man-> https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~vcs-imports/opensim/svn-trunk
<Fly-Man-> And I already made a Bug report about it
<Fly-Man-> and that one was duplicated into a larger bug that svn had
<abentley> Fly-Man-: That is a different problem.  In that case, Launchpad gave up due to inactivity.
<Fly-Man-> Ahh
<Fly-Man-> okay, thought they looked the same ...
<abentley> Fly-Man-: In your first case, the remote server closed the connection, apparently when Launchpad queried the status of a symlink.
<Fly-Man-> abentley: In other words, the server is the culprit in that 1st case
<abentley> Fly-Man-: Right.
<Fly-Man-> abentley: Fuzzy logic :p
<Fly-Man-> but it's strange
<Fly-Man-> abentley: Any word on Git imports going dead ?
<abentley> Fly-Man-: Sorry, I don't know about that issue.
<Fly-Man-> Okay
<Fly-Man-> Thanks :)
<abentley> Fly-Man-: Looks like it got further on the next attempt: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/32384363/fusionforge-trunk-log.txt
<abentley> Fly-Man-: This suggests the server not reliable.
<Fly-Man-> Haha
<Fly-Man-> I will tell them ;)
<Fly-Man-> but I won't think they will offer you beer or cookies then ;)
<DKcross> hello friends, i have one question.. well... really is a dude.
<juliux> hi have created a ppa named test but the url says the name is ppa see https://launchpad.net/~jbloch/+archive/ppa what did i wrong?
<mzz> juliux: that's what normally happens
<juliux> mzz: ok
<mzz> juliux: at least that's what I gathered from https://help.launchpad.net/Packaging/PPA/Uploading
<mzz> "Don't confuse the PPA name with the display name you have configured for your PPA in Launchpad, for most users creating their first PPA the PPA name will be literally just the string ppa. "
<juliux> mzz: thxs
<DKcross> fetova,
<DKcross> :D
<DKcross> well, if you want, u can help me
<DKcross> u know what is my question
<DKcross> :)
<fetova> DKcross, say your question on detail
<fetova> you need a LP admin ;)
<DKcross> ok fetova  you are rigth !
<DKcross> I'm new ubuntu member, and i'm reading about e-mail aiias "@ubuntu.com"
<DKcross> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuEmail
<dk_> fetova:  I'm here :\
<dk_> now i don't have  serve X
<Amaranth> is there a way to get all of the bugs for an ubuntu package via launchpadlib?
<ripps> I can't seem to connect to keyserver.ubuntu.com
<bdmurray> Amaranth: yes, there is
* allenap changed the topic of #launchpad to: Read https://help.launchpad.net for help | Help contact: - | Join https://launchpad.net/~launchpad-users | This channel is logged: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | Launchpad is open source: see channel #launchpad-dev
<Amaranth> I've been looking through docs and ubuntu-dev-tools and can't seem to find an example of this
<bdmurray> Amaranth: it'd be something like the following
<bdmurray> target_package = ubuntu.getSourcePackage(name='%s' % package)
<bdmurray> tasks = target_package.searchTasks(status=['New','Incomplete','Confirmed'],order_by='-datecreated')
<Amaranth> d'oh, totally missed getSourcePackage when I did dir(ubuntu)
<ScottK> ripps: I can't either.  Keys can also be gotten from keys.gnupg.net
<ripps> ScottK: thanks, that worked :)
<DKcross> hello, well.... I'm new ubuntu member, and i have one question...my launchpad profile is https://launchpad.net/~dkcross , but i was reading about the e-mail @ubuntu.com i see that the e-mail is  LPnick@ubuntu.com, but i want other name... is posible?
<av`> DKcross, nope :)
<ScottK> DKcross: Change your LP account name.
<av`> DKcross, change your LP nick is the only way
<av`> DKcross, if not the script will import lpnick@u.c
<DKcross> ok then no problem
#launchpad 2009-09-25
<poolie> launchpad now shows the merge proposal diffs inline in gmail, well done! :)
<poolie> thumper: are you changing all those bugs by hand? or by a script?
<thumper> poolie: which bugs :)
<thumper> changing
<thumper> I read chasing
<thumper> that was by hand
<thumper> I've been meaning to write a script for a while
<thumper> but I can never be arsed
<poolie> :/ we should just have Fixed
<mwhudson> fix verified!
<spiv> More Fixerated!
<spiv> Hmm, I guess the pattern is "Fix Verbed"
<spiv> Fix Verbed II: Fixed Harder With A Vengance.
<days_of_ruin> Unable to obtain lock lp-46119120:///~freshapplepy/rssn/main/.bzr/branch/lock
<days_of_ruin> held by codehost@crowberry on host crowberry [process #21552]
<days_of_ruin> locked 23 hours, 3 minutes ago
<days_of_ruin> Will continue to try until 03:33:45, unless you press Ctrl-C
<days_of_ruin> If you're sure that it's not being modified, use bzr break-lock lp-46119120:///~freshapplepy/rssn/main/.bzr/branch/lock
<days_of_ruin> bzr: ERROR: Could not acquire lock "(remote lock)"
<days_of_ruin> ;_;
<mwhudson> days_of_ruin: the suggested url is wrong (known bug)
<mwhudson> days_of_ruin: try 'bzr break-lock lp:~freshapplepy/rssn/main'
<thumper> mwhudson: not being updated by translations is it?
<thumper> just a thing to think about now
<thumper> that we commit to user branches internally
<mwhudson> thumper: true
<wgrant> For 24 hours?
<thumper> well, no
<mwhudson> yeah, not for 24 hours i hope
<thumper> that'd indicate some screwage
<wgrant> Doesn't it normally give a more informative username?
<sladen> I can't see Launchpad for all the yellow circles
<thumper> wgrant: no
<thumper> wgrant: I don't think so
<thumper> ...
 * thumper can't remember
<wgrant> I know it used to.
<wgrant> But maybe that was back in the good old days before bzr+ssh.
<wgrant> held by wgrant@bazaar.launchpad.net on host crowberry [process #1080]
<wgrant> I wonder if that *was* translations.
<wgrant> THat branch does have translation updates enabled.
<wgrant> So there is some screwage! Yay.
<mwhudson> codehost@ could well be translations actually
<wgrant> That is the email address that it uses in commits.
<wgrant> So... oh dear.
<mwhudson> the translation user?
<wgrant> Translation commits are by "held by wgrant@bazaar.launchpad.net on host crowberry [process #1080]
<wgrant> Er/
<wgrant> Not that.
<wgrant> Launchpad Code Hosting <codehost@crowberry>
<days_of_ruin> mwhudson, That worked thanks.
<johnf> Architecture: all packages build on i386 builders for PPA, right?
<johnf> Can anyone think of a reason not to build the on i386 instead. Considering it's queue always seems to be shorter https://launchpad.net/builders
<lifeless> I think you mean 'not on' or something
<lifeless> but yes, all->i386
<lifeless> there is a Grand Plan
<lifeless> in the meantime, tough luck said the kitty
<ScottK> lifeless: Would it perhaps make sense to drop the lpia PPA builders and recycle them for i386/amd64 in the meantime.  It'd give more throughput and I think it's reasonably official that no one cares about lpia anymore.
<johnf> hmm lp:bzr.dev doesn't have a 2.0.0 tag
<lifeless> ScottK: no comment on lpia [I have no info]
<lifeless> johnf: lp:~bzr-pqm/bzr/2.0.0
<lifeless> johnf: it hasn't been merged back to 2.0, and thence to bzr.dev yet
<ScottK> lifeless: Ubuntu dropped the atmo specific gcc patches for lpian in Karmic, so it's just a clone of i386.
<ScottK> atmo/atom
<RenatoSilva> error when deleting milestones (several times along the day): (Error ID: OOPS-1364C714)
<ubottu> https://lp-oops.canonical.com/oops.py/?oopsid=1364C714
<wgrant> johnf: The i386 PPA build queue is longer just because arch-indep packages build there.
<wgrant> Most of the current i386 queue is the archive rebuild, which is well behind any PPA builds.
<johnf> wgrant: then maybe all should be allocated to the Arch which currently has the shortest Q or similar
<lifeless> johnf: its not a policy thing atm, AFAIK, rather its code.
<RenatoSilva> guys can't delete milestones
<wgrant> johnf: The intention is to eventually pool all of the x86 (i386/amd64/lpia) buildds, but the queue algorithm is hard.
<lifeless> wgrant: perfect. Good. ENEMIES4EVA
<wgrant> lifeless: Huh?
<johnf> wgrant: sounds good
<wgrant> johnf: How far is your i386 build behind the rest?
<wgrant> It shouldn't be too bad, although there are lots of buildds missing today.
<johnf> wgrant: they've manage to finish while I've been whinging :) This morning was a bit worse though. Took about an hour. I suppose I'm just used to thing usually building straight away
<wgrant> Hmmm.
<wgrant> Does lawrencium show up on /builders for other people?
<wgrant> It's disabled, but /builders still shows it building for me.
<wgrant> Ah, that's better.
<asabil> hi all
<asabil> when trying to setup launchpad, I end up with the following error:
<asabil> ImportError: No module named _pythonpath
<spm> asabil: best bet is to try #launchpad-dev
<asabil> ok will do that later, gtg now to work :)
<asabil> thanks spm
<asabil> ttyl
<resolve> hi folks. i have 'people can ask questions in launchpad answers' turned off, but I was still able to post a question. is that only because I'm an admin?
<resolve> I wish unused features/pages like answers could be removed from the top menu :-(
<james_w> OOPS-1364ED613
<ubottu> https://lp-oops.canonical.com/oops.py/?oopsid=1364ED613
<james_w> what are the other pages like +activereviews?
<james_w> that only shows reviews I can do, not ones that I have bumped to needs-fixing and the like
<james_w> I'm getting timeouts going to the listing page that would have the links at the top
<james_w> ah, if I go to my +activereviews then I see them
<hanska> hello people
<hanska> is there any way to control a project's bugs by email?
<hanska> (like DBTS does, that is, with control@bugs.debian.org)
<LarstiQ> hanska: yes
<LarstiQ> hanska: https://help.launchpad.net/Bugs/EmailInterface
<hanska> LarstiQ: great! Is that a new thing? :)
<LarstiQ> hanska: no, been active for years now
<hanska> uh, I totally missed that, really.
<hanska> I'm going to write a git post-receive hook then (hoping that github allows them)
<hanska> LarstiQ: maybe I missed this too.. LP still doesn't have git, right?
<wgrant> I probably first used it four years ago. It has been there a while.
<LarstiQ> hanska: it can do imports using bzr-git
 * LarstiQ hasn't been paying attention to the development on that front
<LarstiQ> hanska: do note you'll need to gpg sign the email
<hanska> LarstiQ: uhm. That would be difficult, but I'll try to hack something.
<hanska> Thank you!
<asabil> hi all
<asabil> is there any documentation about how to deploy lp for production ?
<Fly-Man-> asabil: try #launchpad-dev
<asabil> ok thanks
<rowinggolfer_> greetings.
<rowinggolfer_> my project uses launchpad for bugs.
<rowinggolfer_> and I would like to make it as easy as possible for end-users to file bugs.
<rowinggolfer_> presumably I can do this with the launchpad api?
<rowinggolfer_> or perhaps I simply call apport?
<rowinggolfer_> this is useful (another of mrevell's wonderful howto's)
<rowinggolfer_> https://help.launchpad.net/Bugs/PluginAPISpec#report_bug():%20File%20a%20new%20bug
<rowinggolfer_> grr... url fail.
<mrevell> rowinggolfer_: Why, thank you but the credit for that page must go to gmb :)
<wgrant> rowinggolfer_: I don't think that does what you want.
<mrevell> gmb: who can probably answer your question better than me, too
<wgrant> rowinggolfer_: That's for Launchpad to create bugs on remote bug trackers.
<rowinggolfer_> mrevell - sorry, you are down as the last editee. my bad
<rowinggolfer_> wgrant - any suggestions?
<rowinggolfer_> are there any projects out there already doing this?
<wgrant> rowinggolfer_: https://help.launchpad.net/API
<wgrant> What exactly do you want to do?
<rowinggolfer_> my users are totally non-savvy.
<rowinggolfer_> wgrant - ok... suppose my app runs into a non-critical exception...
<rowinggolfer_> something like a database schema update failing.
<wgrant> It's difficult, because Launchpad bug filing requires that the user has an account.
<rowinggolfer_> I would like to compile the information I need, and offer the user the opportunity to file it.
<rowinggolfer_> wgrant - ah.. ok.
<rowinggolfer_> could I register a user for the application itself?
<wgrant> You could, but that sounds more than slightly crazy.
<rowinggolfer_> why?
<rowinggolfer_> and perhaps I am :(
<wgrant> Because then users cannot receive notifications about updates to the bug, they cannot provide more information, they can do bad things with the account...
<rowinggolfer_> ok.
<rowinggolfer_> bug the bug report could include contact details for them.
<rowinggolfer_> and TBH - I may have to encrypt the information sent occasionally.
<rowinggolfer_> I was thinking about public/private key crypto there.
<rowinggolfer_> but, I am just at the planning stage TBH.
<rowinggolfer_> but I am "community building"... I want these bugs published.
<rowinggolfer_> otherwise my co-developers have nothing to do :(
<Lukas> hi there. could anybody help with translations feature in launchpad? I'm stuck
<beuno> maybe dpm_ is around?
<dpm> Lukas: please, just ask your question :-)
<dpm> and then we can try to give you a hand
<Lukas> I'm trying to force launchpad to load my POT file which I pushed into repository but no success
<dpm> Lukas: which project is it?
<Lukas> i anebled it in "Automatic synchronization" but it still says "This project is currently not using any synchronization with bazaar branches."
<Lukas> https://translations.launchpad.net/timesheets/1.x
<dpm> danilos: jtv was telling me this morning that due to the auto-approver problem imports had been disabled, do you think the problem he is having ^ is caused by that?
<dpm> Lukas: independently of the problem there might be with imports, I would recommend you changing the name of the generated template to something more descriptive than messages.pot. I'm guessing that you are using 'messages' as the translation domain as well, which is the default domain gettext looks for when loading translations (http://www.gnu.org/s/libc/manual/html_node/Locating-gettext-catalog.html)
<dpm> Lukas: I'd recommend using 'timesheets' as the translation domain in the application and timesheets.pot as the template name
<Lukas> dpm: ok, will change it
<Lukas> dpm: one more thing? What exactly does this message say and can it be the cause of my problem? "This series does not have an official Bazaar branch. Set it now!"
<dpm> Lukas: let me have a look...
<froud> Hi, when I do bzr push to launchpad I get bzr: ERROR: Transport operation not possible: http does not support mkdir()". What am I missing?
<dpm> Lukas: you probably have to link your branch to the 1.x series. I believe you can just go to https://launchpad.net/timesheets/1.x/+linkbranch and enter your bzr branch there
<james_w> froud: what command are you using to push?
<dpm> Lukas: also remember that you can also have translations automatically committed to a bzr branch of your choice (see 'Export translations to branch' in https://translations.edge.launchpad.net/timesheets/1.x/+translations-settings)
<dpm> Lukas: this -> http://blog.launchpad.net/translations/screencast-exporting-translations-to-a-bazaar-branch and this -> http://blog.launchpad.net/translations/screencast-importing-translation-templates-from-a-bazaar-branch might also be useful
<froud> james_w: bzr push lp:
<james_w> froud: what does "bzr lp-login" say?
<froud> james_w: bzr push lp:~development-prepaidmeters/utiliflex/trunk
<froud> james_w: okay fixed have to configure bazaar with launchpad id
<lxp> hi
<mvo> hello! is there a way to rename a project from http://launchad.net/foo to http://launchpad.net/bar ?
<beuno> mvo, you need to file a question, and an admin will do it
<lxp> i have forgotten my launchpad password
<mvo> beuno: cool, many thanks
<lxp> but the passwort recovery asisstent always says "Your account details have not been found. Please check your subscription email address and try again."
<mvo> beuno: a question against launchpad -general? or a specific component of it?
<lxp> launchpad general
<mvo> thanks again
<lxp> if i try to reregister i get "The email address lxp@platinumworld.biz is already registered"
<Lukas> dpm: i changed the domain to "timesheets" Now I should place the timesheets.pot to /timesheets folder? (/timesheets/timesheets.pot)
<dpm> Lukas: it doesn't actually matter what the name of the folder containing the template is (in GNOME and GNU projects it is customary to use po/templatename.pot) timesheets/timesheets.pot is fine
<Lukas> dpm: now, everything should be commited and set up correctly. what if no record appears in the queue in upcoming 15 miutes?
<Lukas> do you have an idea whether the functionality works or not at the moment?
<Lukas> dpm: do you have an idea whether the functionality works or not at the moment?
<dpm> danilos, henninge or Ursinha: are imports active again? ^
<henninge> I thought they were ...
<dpm> Lukas: then wait for some minutes and if nothing has happened just ping us again (henninge: how long do roughly bzr pot imports take to appear in the queue after commit?)
<danilos> dpm: jtv said he was going to re-enable them, but only later today after we rollout a fix
<Lukas> dpm: i asked my college to assign a series to a branch and now the settings states "Translations are imported with every update from branch lp:timesheets. "   Hope that this will solve the problem. Thanks for your tips.
<danilos> dpm: oh, imports should be running for everything but ubuntu, if I understood the situation correctly
<dpm> danilos: ah, then it might not have been a problem at all in that particular project. He's committed a new template and I guess he should just wait a bit for it to appear in the imports queue
<henninge> dpm, Lukas: commit-to-queue time should be no longer than 30 to 60 minutes.
<dpm> thanks henninge
<dpm> Lukas: the template has just appeared in the imports queue -> https://translations.edge.launchpad.net/timesheets/1.x/+imports , but the path is not timesheets/timesheets.pot as you mentioned, but messages/fr/LC_MESSAGES/timesheets.pot. Could you fix that? Or is there anything in your project or your build system that needs the path to be like that?
<Lukas> dpm: yes it's there, finally. This path is required by PHP implementation of gettext. At least it works when the .mo file is under this path and I wanted to keep the .pot file with .po, .mo files. Is it a problem?
<dpm> Lukas: it is not a problem in Launchpad (the template has just been imported), but only a recommendation for good practice :-). The template really doesn't belong to the fr/LC_MESSAGES folder, since it is not a French translation. And I think you won't be able to keep the POT file with the MO files, since for other languages they will be installed in xx/LC_MESSAGES/timesheets.mo
<Lukas> yeah, you
<Lukas> dpm: yeah you're right, it should be /messages/timesheets.pot instead of /messages/fr/LC_MESSAGES/timesheets.pot
<Lukas> dpm: if I move it and commit it again and import it again what should I do with the old template having been already imported?
<dpm> I'm afraid I'll have to ask someone else :) henninge, what's the best thing to do in these cases? ^^ (bzr commit of template to a wrong path, import - now would like to change the path and re-import)
<Lukas> dpm: i should perhaps set status to Deleted and import the new one..
<dpm> Lukas: let's wait a few minutes if Henning can give us an answer ^
<henninge> dpm, Lukas: just do "bzr mv" and push the file. If the template name stays the same, the path is updated in Launchpad.
<Lukas> henninge: cool, thanks
<henninge> Lukas: yeah, if it's "brz mv messages/fr/LC_MESSAGES/timesheets.pot messages/timesheets.pot" the template name is unchanged and it will pick up on the new path.
<Lukas> thanks all, have a good day/night :-) bye
<zul> how do you disable the redirection for edge testing?
<beuno> zul, it lets you do so on the bottom of the page
<zul> thanks
<pro-rsoft> I've just uploaded a package using dput, but it doesnt appear on my ppa page.
<pro-rsoft> what could be the problem?
<bigjools> pro-rsoft: did you sign the upload with a key in your Launchpad account?
<pro-rsoft> uhm, the key might not be in my lp account
<pro-rsoft> will it appear when I do add it?
<bigjools> Launchpad doesn't email if it doesn't know the key, to save the spam
<bigjools> pro-rsoft: you need to add the gpg key and re-upload
<bigjools> dput -f, as dput will think you already uploaded it
<pro-rsoft> kay, thanks
<froud> When I try bzr lp-login I always get No Launchpad user ID configured. despite having done bzr lp-login my-id
<froud> But when I run bzr lp-login my-id it returns
<froud> bzr: ERROR: https://launchpad.net/%7ESean/%2Bsshkeys is permanently redirected to https://launchpad.net/~sean/+sshkeys
<pro-rsoft> bigjools, okay, I added my gpg key and reuploaded the package, but it still doesnt appear on my ppa page
<froud> I uploaded the public key to lp
<bigjools> pro-rsoft: how long ago did you upload?  it can take a few minutes to appear
<pro-rsoft> just yet
<pro-rsoft> or do I need to sign the CoC too?
<bigjools> you'll get a rejection email if there's any problem, and your gpg key is good
<pro-rsoft> okay
<pro-rsoft> Ah, I got a reject mail indeed. thanks
<bigjools> great, CoC?
<pro-rsoft> naw, an error in my changelog file
<pro-rsoft> How do I create a package for multiple distros?
<pro-rsoft> should I create multiple changelog files, one for jaunty, karmic, etc?
<pro-rsoft> is there support for building on ARM?
<bigjools> pro-rsoft: for multi series, you can either upload different versions for each, or upload for the oldest series and once it's build you can "copy" it (promote it) to the new series
<bigjools> no ARM support, it's i386, amd64 and lpia
<pro-rsoft> ah, okay. thanks
<pro-rsoft> looks like my package got accepted now
<pro-rsoft> say, if I wanted to have a package in the official ubuntu repos, and it got accepted, how would that work? would I add it to my ppa, and would it then be promoted or so?
<bigjools> you would need to get a MOTU to sponsor you, PPAs don't help much in that regard.
<pro-rsoft> oh, ok.
<froud> anyone around who can give commercial customer support for launchpad
<beuno> froud, maybe bac is still around
<beuno> froud, are you an existing customer?
<bac> here i am
<bac> what's up froud?
<froud> bac: yes
<froud> been so since +7 hrs and cannot get baz setup
<froud> maybe I'm having a bland day
<froud> s/bland/blond
<bac> froud: what is the project name in LP?
<froud> Utiliflex
 * froud is asking bac for DCC
<RenatoSilva> https://launchpad.net/moin-solenoid/+milestone/rc-2009.6.3/+delete
<RenatoSilva> Error ^: (Error ID: OOPS-1364A2948)
<ubottu> https://lp-oops.canonical.com/oops.py/?oopsid=1364A2948
<RenatoSilva> Currently I don't maintain any old versions of my project, because new versions don't behave that much different. I apply bug fixes to new versions, and the recommendation is to update to the latest version.
<RenatoSilva> So the question is: should I leave old versions available for download?
<RenatoSilva> I want to remove old versions, so what do I do? a) remove download file b) remove release from milestone 3) remove milestone??
<pro-rsoft> What does this lintian error mean?
<pro-rsoft> E: squish source: version-substvar-for-external-package libsquish-dev -> squish
<pro-rsoft> oops, my bad. please hit me with the largest object you can find.
 * beuno goes find a desk
<kfogel> james_w: got a sec to chat about launchpadlib packaging?
<james_w> I do
<kfogel> james_w: You probably saw my thread from a while back about the madness of trying to use bleeding-edge launchpadlib :-).  I guess I want to start with a very open-ended question: what's our state of the onion right now?  How far behind is latest-released launchpadlib from trunk-launchpadlib, and how hard is it to run trunk if someone wants to?
<james_w> kfogel: I believe it is "not very far"
<james_w> I may be wrong though
<kfogel> james_w: not very far behind?
<james_w> I think the trunk switched as so I'm not subscribed any more
<james_w> yeah
<hax404> where can i change my E-Mailadress in my launchpad-account?
<james_w> let me dig up your thread
<kfogel> james_w: bac was telling me today that login stuff had been moved into launchpadlib, but that version hasn't been released (or at least not packaged) yet.
<james_w> login stuff?
<bac> hax404:  go to https://launchpad.net/people/+me
<bac> hax404: click on the yellow 'edit' icon next to the 'Email' heading
<kfogel> james_w: I should confess I'm not a big launchpadlib expert -- I'm not keeping up with latest (partly because I can't :-) ).
<kfogel> james_w: bac might know more, and he's right here.  bac?
<james_w> that's ok, I'm going straight to the source
<bac> james_w: a new method called 'login_with' was added to the Launchpad class.  it makes it easier to manage credentials
<james_w> oh, that was a couple of months ago wasn't it?
<bac> james_w:  a lot of the scripts we want to distribute use this method
<bac> james_w: yes, it has been a pretty long time
<james_w> we're missing the last 4 revisions of lp:launchpadlib in karmic
<james_w> that's PROD_SERVICE_ROOT or whatever it is called
<james_w> contents on the API documentation
<james_w> "move samples -> contrib and add pertinent scripts from lp-dev-utils to that directory"
<james_w> "Add contrib/lp-bug-ifier.py"
<james_w> so only one little bit of API missing it seems
<james_w> kfogel: do you have a subject for your thread?
<james_w> I can't seem to find it
<bac> james_w: r37 are the good bits
<james_w> yeah, that's in karmic
<bac> james_w: excellent
<kfogel> james_w: one sec
<james_w> I'm asking as I think the problem you had is now fixed, which should make things easier
<bac> Solving the launchpadlib packaging mess.
<bac> 8/14/09 on the internal list
<kfogel> james_w: "Solving the launchpadlib packaging mess."
<kfogel> oh
<kfogel> bac was there ahead ofme
<james_w> ah
<james_w> I'm not on that list
<james_w> I think we discussed it on IRC though
<bac> kfogel: i'm going afk for an hour.  let me know if you need me to follow up on this
<kfogel> bac: thanks.
<kfogel> james_w: I'll give you a URL, one sec
<kfogel> james_w: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/private/canonical-launchpad/2009-August/thread.html
<kfogel> james_w: frankly it could have been a public thread, I don't know why I didn't post out here.
<james_w> no dice
<kfogel> james_w: no password?
<james_w> correct
<james_w> https://pastebin.canonical.com/20826/
<james_w> grep to the rescue
<kfogel> heh
<james_w> http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2009/08/05/%23launchpad.html
<kfogel> let's just get you the thread, that's what's really needed here
<kfogel> one sec
<james_w> so yes, that immediate error is no more
<james_w> so you should at least be able to install from source now
<kfogel> james_w: if one can install latest source now, that is a HUGE win.
<james_w> so, I share your misgivings about installing from source (unsurprisingly)
<kfogel> james_w: I'll try it.  And I'm on a debian box at the moment, as it happens (usually am on Ubuntu), so this will be a good test.
<james_w> but the recent fixes should at least make it possible
<kfogel> james_w: Oh, I have no objection to installing from source for myself.  I just don't think it's a reasonable mass distribution strategy :-).
<james_w> if it doesn't then I consider it a python tool issue
<james_w> but if the packaging gets in the way somehow I can look at fixing it
<james_w> as for packaging in Ubuntu
<james_w> I will update to new releases each cycle
<james_w> we can SRU critical fixes in to old releases
<kfogel> james_w: Are we good for Karmic?
<james_w> and we could look at backports if you want a supported option for "new version on old release"
<james_w> yeah, karmic is good, we have the latest released version
<james_w> if you think we should have a newer version then you haven't indicated that by actually, you know, releasing it
<james_w> though someone asked me about cherry picking in the stable service_root change to make it easier to run scripts against production
<james_w> which I may pursue after beta
<james_w> we could also set up a "launchpadlib" PPA for distribution to interested Ubuntu users
<CarlFK> is there a way to search lp ppa's ? like i am looking for ffmpeg
<beuno> CarlFK, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+ppas
<james_w> and a automated tip PPA to make it easier to run trunk
<james_w> but for the issue of wanting to use new features that some people don't have, it's not a new issue
<CarlFK> beuno: yay.  thanks.
<james_w> so, suck it up, and don't use new features unless you have to
<james_w> does that make sense?
<bigjools> CarlFK: also visit https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ffmpeg and click the green expander at the bottom of the page
<CarlFK> beuno: woah... very nice.
<bigjools> beuno: talking of which, can you see the problem with the 2-column dl on that page?
<beuno> bigjools, that make seems to need to use a different template?
<beuno> to use up the whole page?
<CarlFK> fantastic:  4:0.5+svn20090924-0ubuntu0~ppa2   (22 hours ago)
<bigjools> beuno: I don't understand you
<bigjools> beuno: I am talking about the package information section
<bigjools> if the <dd> at the top left has a slightly larger than normal icon it seems to push the <dd> below it down
<beuno> bigjools, ah
<beuno> I see
<beuno> it needs to format this differently
<bigjools> I've seen it on a few pages, not just the DSP
<beuno> yeah
<beuno> sinzui just enlightened me
<bigjools> oh good job getting rid of the disgusting grey background on the sidebar BTW
<beuno> :)
<beuno> it was all thanks to jml's wierd color settings that I saw it
<bigjools> ah jml is weird for sure
<fabrice_sp> Hi. With the new interface, how is it possible to see the log of changes made in a bug report?
<maxb> urgh
<maxb> fabrice_sp is right - where's the link to /+activity gone?!
<pro-rsoft> my package build had a build error, so I tried to dput a fixed version of the source package. But it keeps getting rejected. What should I do?
<maxb> What is the rejection reason?
<pro-rsoft> already existed
<pro-rsoft> "file X already exists in Y, but uploaded version has different contents"
<RenatoSilva> when I create a bug based on a question, will the reporter be who asks or me?
<maxb> pro-rsoft: It is not possible to reupload different contents for the *same* version. You must increase the version.
<maxb> I have filed bug 436818 on fabrice_sp's observation
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 436818 in malone "Bug Activity Log no longer linked in 3.0 UI" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/436818
<pro-rsoft> maxb, ok, thanks
<quentusrex> keyserver.ubuntu.com down???
<resolve> hi folks. I have a problem - http://pastebin.com/m48f97c4a
<resolve> is crowberry supposed to hang on to the lock for that long?
<resolve> and why can't I break it?
<resolve> to answer my second question, replacing the text with 'lp:projname' seems to break the lock
<jbuncher> Anyone here?  Launchpad seems broken, I can't report a bug.  Clicking on "report a bug" takes me to https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ReportingBugs  Is anyone else experiencing this?
<ScottK> jbuncher: If it's an Ubuntu bug you are trying to report, that's on purpose.  The page tells you the preferred way to report bugs.
<jbuncher> ScottK:  that's fairly maddening, but ok.  Plenty of bugs/wishlist items don't have apps that are running, and using ubuntu-bug seems like overkill.
<jbuncher> ScottK:  What would be your recommended action for filing a but/wishlist agaist a package that no longer exists in karmic?  (libstdc++5 to be specific, plenty of proprietary binaries still depend on it, so it'd be nice if it was at least available in universe so that it wouldn't prevent upgrades to karmic)
<jbuncher> Ok, I'm attempting to file it using "ubuntu-bug libstdc++6", but it won't load firefox and is crashing with some kind of window error.
<ScottK> jbuncher: I've no idea.  I'm not a proponent of this change, just an observer.  I'd ask in #ubuntu-bugs.
<czajkowski> any idea who i can ask about the uds spoonsorship page submitted but getting message waiting for login.launchpad.net transgering from summit.ubuntu.com
<czajkowski> i think it's submitted
<czajkowski> but not sure
<czajkowski> *transfering
<ScottK> czajkowski: PM jacastro and ask him to check.
<czajkowski> ScottK: thanks
<ScottK> Generally it's OK, but he can make sure (known bug)
<ScottK> You're welcome.
<jbuncher> ScottK:  Thanks for the info.
<ScottK> jbuncher: You're welcome.
<czajkowski> ScottK: that's a special bug
<kfogel> beuno: I'm trying to update the description for bug #436888, but after I hit the green checkmark to submit my edits, it spins forever and I get a pink rectangle around the text field, with this message in tiny font at the bottom:
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 436888 in launchpad "Linking a branch to a bug report doesn't show the new link until you refresh the branch page." [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/436888
<kfogel> Linking a branch to a bug report doesn't show the new link until you refresh the branch page.
<kfogel> CancelOk
<kfogel>    1. Launchpad itself
<kfogel>    2. Bugs
<kfogel>    3. Bug #436888
<kfogel> Affects 	Status 	Importance 	Assigned to 	Milestone
<kfogel>   	
<kfogel> Launchpad itself Edit
<kfogel> 	
<kfogel> New
<kfogel> 	
<kfogel> Undecided
<kfogel> 	
<kfogel> Unassigned Edit
<kfogel> 	
<kfogel> Affecting: 	Launchpad itself
<kfogel> Filed here by: 	Karl Fogel
<kfogel> When: 	15 minutes ago
<kfogel> Project
<kfogel> (Chooseâ¦)
<kfogel> Status 	Importance 	Milestone
<kfogel> 	
<kfogel> 	
<kfogel> Assigned to
<kfogel> 	Nobody
<kfogel> 	Me
<kfogel> 	
<kfogel> (Chooseâ¦)
<kfogel> Comment on this change (optional)
<kfogel> Also affects project Also affects distribution Target to release
<kfogel> This bug affects me too Edit This bug affects me too Edit
<kfogel>  
<kfogel> Bug Description
<kfogel> I was on this branch page:
<kfogel>   https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~kfogel/launchpadlib/426323-apidoc-html-title-attrs
<kfogel> and clicked "Link to a bug report" to link it to bug #426323. After I entered the bug number and hit Return, I was left at the branch page, and the link now said "Link to another bug report" -- however, the actual link to the bug, which should have been right above that, was not present! Only after I reloaded the branch page did that link show up (the one with the bug icon next to it and the summary of the bug as the link text).
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 426323 in launchpad "put title attributes on section/div elements in API documentation" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/426323
<kfogel> I don't know if it's important that this was the first time this branch had been linked to any bug report. I'll test by linking that same branch to *this* bug after I submit, and linking a fresh branch to this bug. More in a moment.
<kfogel>  CancelOk
<kfogel> Entity-body was not a well-formed JSON document.
<kfogel> aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh
<kfogel> beuno: let me try that again:
<kfogel> beuno: I'm trying to update the description for bug #436888, but after I hit the green checkmark to submit my edits, it spins forever and I get a pink rectangle around the text field, with this message in tiny font at the bottom:
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 436888 in launchpad "Linking a branch to a bug report doesn't show the new link until you refresh the branch page." [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/436888
<kfogel> "Entity-body was not a well-formed JSON document."
<ScottK> kfogel: Known issue
<ScottK> kfogel: Add /+edit to the url to get the non-ajax edit form.
<kfogel> ScottK: the unable-to-edit-a-bug-description is a known issue?
<ScottK> Yep.
<kfogel> ScottK: thanks
<ScottK> Apparently that's not a critical feature for a release.
<kfogel> ScottK: sheesh.  I went to link a branch to a bug, and ran across *three* bugs in that process of doing that, one of which (the edit description bug) was already known.  The other two are now filed.
<ScottK> Don't get me started.
<solrize> suddenly filebug-advanced doesn't work any more, it always goes to the kiddie interface now.  what happened???
<gmb> solrize: We removed +filebug-advanced; you can now do anythign you could do thorough that page on the main page, provided you have the right permissions.
<solrize> huh?  how?  thanks
<gmb> solrize: There's an "Extra options" section of the page that drops down, just about the submit button (on the second page). In there you can set importance, status, assignee and tags, depending on the permissions you ahve. You can also add an attachment.
<solrize> i'm trying to figure out how to get to that screen without going through the search step
<gmb> solrize: You have to go through the search step.
<gmb> solrize: (We're working on making the search results load asynchronously, which will reduce your load times and stop timeouts from being as much of an issue.
<solrize> gmb, the search step is a useless pain in the neck, i'm one of the maintainers of this program, i get email notifications of every bug, lots of times i file bugs against features that i implemented 5 minutes ago and i KNOW there will be no useful search hits
<solrize> can the bypass url please be put back pleeeease?
<gmb> solrize: No.
<gmb> solrize: But
<gmb> You can just put a meaningless term in the search box on the first step
<gmb> And then correct it.
<gmb> On the second step.
<solrize> gaaah.
<solrize> is there a bug filing API so i can bypass the web interface completely?
<gmb> solrize: Yes. https://help.launchpad.net/API
<solrize> thanks
<uni4dfx> why does launchpad redirect me to the wiki when i try to report a bug?
<ScottK> uni4dfx: Because of the reasons explained on the wiki page.
<uni4dfx> i have an account, i just don't wanna use the ubuntu-bug thing
<uni4dfx> fine, i won't report any more bugs
#launchpad 2009-09-26
<ScottK> uni4dfx: The policy was set by Ubuntu, so #ubuntu-bugs is the place to discuss it.
<uni4dfx> sorry to annoy you here :)
<plars> there is no activity log link in the bug reports now? was this a conscious decision?
<wgrant> plars: Bug #436818
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 436818 in malone "Bug Activity Log no longer linked in 3.0 UI" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/436818
<plars> wgrant: ah, thanks
<bjsnider> having difficulty dputting to ppa, getting errno 111
<wgrant> bjsnider: Indeed, the FTP server is dead.
<bjsnider> wow, really?
<bjsnider> dead?
<wgrant> It crashes sometimes.
<bjsnider> that would interfere with the ftp upload, without doubt
<mdz> I don't seem to be able to mark private bugs as public anymore
<mdz> the "(!)" icon is visible while the page is loading, but then disappears
<wgrant> mdz: Use !WebKit for now.
<wgrant> bjsnider: Fixed now.
<mdz> wgrant, LP bug or WebKit bug?
<wgrant> mdz: LP.
<wgrant> mdz: bug #397457
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 397457 in malone "Bug privacy edit icon is not visible in WebKit browsers" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/397457
<cyberix> I cannot figure out how to report bugs in 3.0
<wgrant> cyberix: You're looking at https://bugs.launchpad.net/, aren't you?
<cyberix> Well, I have been bouncing around all over the site
<wgrant> cyberix: https://launchpad.net/PROJECT wasn't one of the places you ended up?
<cyberix> I go to https://launchpad.net/ubuntu
<cyberix> I click on "Report a bug"
<cyberix> I end up at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ReportingBugs
<wgrant> Did you read that page?
<cyberix> I scimmed it trough
<wgrant> (this is an Ubuntu-specific thing, nothing to do with LP 3.0)
<RenatoSilva> translations export are said to be daily, but they're not being. Not even after pushing changes to the po and pot files
<cyberix> It seems I need to make some software crash so I get to reporting a bug
<wgrant> cyberix: That page thoroughly describes all methods of filing an Ubuntu bug, in order of preference.
<wgrant> cyberix: Only one method on that page requires it....
<RenatoSilva> also fyi milestone deletion is not working
<cyberix> I was going to file a [needs-packaging] bug
<cyberix> I cannot see which category that would fit in
<wgrant> cyberix: Yes, that is a problem. See the "Filing bugs at Launchpad.net" section.
<wgrant> Again, this is an Ubuntu policy decision, and not anything to do with the LP 3.0 UI changes.
<cyberix> So I have to link the bug to some existing package
<cyberix> interesting
<wgrant> No.
<wgrant> Ah, it doesn't say how to avoid it. Omit the '+source/PACKAGENAME/'
<cyberix> wgrant: I fixed that
<cyberix> wgrant: Thanks for patience
<wgrant> cyberix: np
<MTecknology> spm: You around?
<wgrant> spm: Hopefully not at lunch time on Saturday.
<wgrant> Er.
<MTecknology> wgrant: maybe you?
<wgrant> MTecknology: ^^
<MTecknology> wgrant: can I forward you an interesting email?
<MTecknology> entirely LP related
<wgrant> MTecknology: If you so desire, and it is not enticing me to increase the size of my body parts.
<MTecknology> wgrant: it's along that line though
<MTecknology> it might just be somebody infected w/ a virus trying to reply to every email addy - which is why I think it might be good for you to be aware of
<wgrant> MTecknology: You mean it's spam? https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+addquestion if the user hasn't been killed yet.
<wgrant> I don't see what me being aware does.
<MTecknology> wgrant: I know the user is fine - I just wanted to say something about it - just noticed the part about an update to a deactivated project
<Peng_> One of my mirrored branches is in a slightly odd state: 1.) It failed to mirror last time -- network issue or somesuch. 2.) It says "Updating branch...", "processing changes" and all. It seems broken branches do that now. 3.) The given repository format is out-of-date. It changed recently. https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~mnordhoff/loggerhead/pretty-url
<Peng_> Is there anything bug-worthy about that?
<wgrant> Peng_: 2) is known.
<wgrant> I think 3) should fix itself when the mirror happens, but I'm not entirely sure.
<Peng_> wgrant: <3
<Peng_> The thing is, the repo format changed before the last mirror. But it was 1.9 -> 2a, so it was affected by that bug that was recently fixed.
<Peng_> So it might take a while for the format change to sink in. Shrug.
<Peng_> Pizza! Bye. :P
<ScottK> wgrant: You wouldn't happen to know if there's anyone around that could look into why suddenly I can't accept packages anymore via the LP UI (suddenly like in the last 10 minute)?
<KIAaze> hi, I'm getting the following error when trying to upload with dput: Connection failed, aborting. Check your network [Errno 111] Connection refused. Any ideas?
<ScottK> OK, Got one.  Maybe kdebase-workspace is just too big.
<KIAaze> ?
<ScottK> KIAaze: Different conversation, not related to you.
<KIAaze> to be able to upload to my PPA, I just need a GPG key registered at launchpad, no?
<alkisg1> Older builds are deleted from launchpad, right? E.g. a ppa now has "package 1.5", and 3 months before it had "package 1.3", could I somehow get the binaries for package 1.3?
<Peng_> Am I a terrible person if I use OpenSSH's "ControlMaster" to leave a connection open to LP all the time?
<alkisg> I can copy packages from the Ubuntu primary archive to my PPA from here: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+archive/primary/+copy-packages?field.series_filter=karmic&field.name_filter=PACKAGE_YOU_WANT
<alkisg> Can I also copy packages from jaunty-proposed or jaunty-backports?
<pro-rsoft> my rules file's "install" should install into something like $(CURDIR)/debian/tmp/usr/include/ right?
<pro-rsoft> cause I've just uploaded a source package but I notice that none of the built files get packaged
<pro-rsoft> is it possible to cancel a build?
<KIAaze> just wanted to say I solved my upload problem: the .dput.cf file was incorrect. Luckily, I had an old backup somewhere.
<KIAaze> it now looks liks this: [launchpad-login]
<KIAaze> fqdn = ppa.launchpad.net
<KIAaze> method = ftp
<KIAaze> incoming = ~launchpad-login/ubuntu
<KIAaze> login = anonymous
<KIAaze> allow_unsigned_uploads = 0
<wgrant> pro-rsoft: No, its not possible to cancel a build.
<pro-rsoft> ok, thanks
<KIAaze> it seems launchpad has changed a lot recently. Is it now impossible to download packages from a PPA directly?
<KIAaze> ah ok
<KIAaze> view package details
<dreamcat4> Hello. I want to add my project's mailinglist automatically for any bug notifications
<dreamcat4> but would like to make sure they don't see my user account's emails about other things
<dreamcat4> ?
<wgrant> dreamcat4: Why do you want the emails to go to the mailing list? I find it's generally a better idea to let people subscribe themselves.
<dreamcat4> because it's where we discuss our bugs
<wgrant> Don't you discuss your bugs on the bug?
<dreamcat4> we just want others to see a new bug come in (who aren't on launchpad but subscribe to highload-php-en mailinglist)
<dreamcat4> otherwise they generally wouldn't see it
<wgrant> Ah, so this isn't a Launchpad mailing list?
<dreamcat4> we aren't 100% launchpad
<dreamcat4> it's a google group + nginx forum
<wgrant> I see.
<dreamcat4> (and is well established)
<wgrant> Is the mailing list the contact address for a team?
<dreamcat4> (so i can't go around just asking everyone to get a launchpad account)
<dreamcat4> i dont know but ill go & check right now
<dreamcat4> its not yet been set by the team owner
<dreamcat4> https://launchpad.net/~php-fpm
<wgrant> If it was, an admin of the team could just subscribe the team to all bug notifications.
<dreamcat4> that's great. thank you
<wgrant> (at https://launchpad.net/php-fpm/+subscribe)
<dreamcat4> have now emailed the group admin with these instructions, thank you
<dreamcat4> bye
<pro-rsoft> how to force dput to upload my orig.tar.gz? it doesn't, and lp complains about that
<av`> pro-rsoft, which error do you get?
<av`> I don't see the point in 'forcing' to dput a orig. file
<av`> pro-rsoft, if you did things properly you should see it in your .changes file,
<pro-rsoft> Rejected:
<pro-rsoft> Unable to find artoolkit_2.72.1+20070927.orig.tar.gz in upload or distribution.
<pro-rsoft> Files specified in DSC are broken or missing, skipping package unpack verification.
<av`> pro-rsoft, wrong debuild
<pro-rsoft> hm, what should I do to fix it then?
<av`> #ubuntu-motu is your channel now :)
<wgrant> pro-rsoft: Give the '-sa' option to debuild.
<ScottK> av`: Not particularly, unless he's trying to upload to the Ubuntu archive.
<av`> ScottK, debuild flags are not the right things to discuss on #launchpad, I guess
<ScottK> av`: PPA packaging isn't the right thing to discuss on #ubuntu-motu.
<av`> ScottK, debuild is not strictly related to PPA, it's a general packaging tool
<av`> ScottK, I can use debuild also outside PPA
<ScottK> Right, but #ubuntu-motu isn't the channel for everyone in the work that feels like using Debian packaging tools.
<av`> don't know which channel would be fine for such issues then
<ScottK> It's a problem that the Launchpad team doesn't support their users then.
<av`> yep
<av`> pro-rsoft, start doing your work on a clean tree and follow wgrant's suggestion
<pro-rsoft> wgrant, thanks!
<pro-rsoft> this works
<cyberix> I read about PPA-pages being split to a user page, and a developer page
<cyberix> How do I find both of these?
<picklesworth> So, is it just me or does anyone else get pointed to this help page upon clicking the "Report a bug" button from Ubuntu's Launchpad page? https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ReportingBugs
<ScottK> picklesworth: It's on purpose.
<picklesworth> Ah... I guess reading the help page will help
<pwnguin> https://answers.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+question/83874
<pwnguin> how did that get marked solved?
<ulysses__> hello
<ulysses__> I want to report a bug in Ubuntu, but the https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+filebug redirects me to the Ubuntu Wiki (https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ReportingBugs)
<ulysses__> is this a bug, or this is a feature?
<LarstiQ> ulysses__: feature
<ulysses__> ...
<ulysses__> thanks
<LarstiQ> ulysses__: Ubuntu has a bug reporting procedure they want followed
<ulysses__> so then I should live with them, however it is very strange
<LarstiQ> why is that strange?
<ulysses__> before launchpad 3.0 released, I opened the https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+filebug page, choosed the right package from the search form, and then wrote the reprt
 * LarstiQ doesn't know ubuntu enough to say what changed
<ulysses__> not an Ubuntu bug, it's in the kubuntu-docs package, some small mistake only:)
 * ulysses__ translates kubuntu-docs to hungarian
<napsy> Hello. I've imported my project from github. Later I cloned the branch from launchpad using bzr but now I can't push. I get a "readonly transport" eror. Is this fixable without re-cloning the branch?
<LarstiQ> napsy: yes
<napsy> how?
<LarstiQ> napsy: you're likely trying to push to http://, instead of bzr+ssh:// or sftp://
<napsy> Using saved push location: bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/~vcs-imports/gsfm/trunk/
<napsy> this is what bzr push prints out
<napsy> I did set up my launchpad username and imported my ssh public key
<LarstiQ> ah
<LarstiQ> ~vcs-imports is not writable to your user
<napsy> hum so what can I do now?
<LarstiQ> napsy: you can push to lp:~napsy/gsfm/trunk instead
<napsy> cool it works
<napsy> But I got this "Created new stacked branch referring to /~vcs-imports/gsfm/trunk"
<napsy> what does it mean?
<LarstiQ> napsy: do you intend to switch development from github to launchpad? Or should vcs-imports continue pulling across?
<napsy> I intend to switch to launchpad
<LarstiQ> napsy: that means it hasn't uploaded _all_ revisions to ~napsy/gsfm/trunk, but instead it knows to look in ~vcs-imports/gsfm/trunk for revisions it doesn't have itself
<LarstiQ> napsy: sorta like hardlinking
<napsy> ok
<napsy> how do I now unlink my branch from vcs-imports?
<LarstiQ> good question
 * LarstiQ needs to find a webbrowser
<LarstiQ> napsy: there is a --no-stack on bzr push I think for creating branches
<napsy> hm ok hm
<napsy> I have now two branches, one is trunk and the other is luka-napotnik/gsfm/trunk with my latest code
<napsy> can I delete the trunk branch and rename the other one?
<LarstiQ> napsy: yup
<napsy> hum apperently I can't delete trunk
<LarstiQ> you should be able to afaik
<LarstiQ> but you can at least rename it?
<napsy> Yes I can rename the branch. But I want only one official lp:gsfm/trunk branc not "personal" branch
<LarstiQ> right
<LarstiQ> the official trunk is managed by setting the series focus
<LarstiQ> you can select a different branch for it there
<napsy> if I /part
<\u03b5> is there a place to give feedback on lp's new look?
<ScottK> \u03b5: https://launchpad.net/launchpad/+filebug
<\u03b5> ah, hm
<Tack> Is keyserver.ubuntu.com dead for anyone else, or is it just me?
<ulysses__> http://downforeveryoneorjustme.com/keyserver.ubuntu.com
<Tack> Is downforeveryoneorjustme.com down for everyone else, or is it just me?
<Tack> Kidding, great site.
<Tack> Anyone here in a position to fix? :)
<ScottK> Tack: You can use subkeys.pgp.net.  Ubuntu keys are mirrored there.
<Tack> ScottK: Ah perfect, thanks.
<SiDi> hi there
<SiDi> i cant seem to be able to report a bug in an ubuntu package in the new launchpad
<SiDi> it keeps redirecting me to the wiki
<ulysses__> a moment
<ulysses__> it was changed, so you should open this link: http://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/PACKAGENAME/+filebug?no-redirect
<ulysses__> replace PACKAGENAME with the name of the package, what you want to report
<SiDi> ulysses__: thanks
<SiDi> thats quite a weird practice, though
<ulysses__> yeah, I find it also strange:P
<cyberix> It will probably help with the amount of incomming bugs
<cyberix> That might drop to zero :-D
<ulysses__> :D
<Amaranth> SiDi: The idea is to use ubuntu-bug to file bug reports
<ulysses__> and the Kubuntu users?:P
<ScottK> ulysses__: The same.
<SiDi> Amaranth: i dont wanna have to use ubuntu-bug or whatever to report a bug in a package for which i propose a patch :)
<Amaranth> SiDi: That is one place it falls over
<SiDi> and assuming users will report bugs FROM ubuntu is in my opinion quite wrong
<Amaranth> SiDi: We use bugs too much for other workflow
<Amaranth> SiDi: Your situation would be better served by a merge request for a packaging branch, for example
<SiDi> well, packaging errors / mistakes are for instance definately bugs in packages
<SiDi> Amaranth: this also means setup a branch, which requires an open port 22 on my network, + proposing a merge for a project using its own git repo...
<SiDi> that sounds overoveroverkill to me, all i need to do is to send the patch to the package maintainers and to make sure its tracked somewhere on the web
<Amaranth> Yeah, no one actually uses the merge request tool in ubuntu
<Amaranth> When I tried my branches got forgotten until I filed bugs, linked them to the branch, and assigned them to the people I wanted to review them
<SiDi> i never managed to successfully merge a branch via lp
<SiDi> its just simpler to manually merge and then commit....
<SiDi> and honnestly, there still are valid use cases for attaching patches
<Amaranth> SiDi: Just for curiosity sake, what package are you trying to fix?
<SiDi> Amaranth: xfce4-power-manager today
<SiDi> i wrote a patch to allow it to use our custom notification-battery icons for its notification bubbles
<SiDi> but i sometimes have to file bugs against packages for xfce4-volumed and exaile too
<SiDi> that change will really not be practical
<Fly-Man-> Morning
<Fly-Man-> How long does a langiage translation request usually take ?
<Fly-Man-> a one time import from a BZR tree
<Fly-Man-> laanguage*
<Fly-Man-> language*
 * Fly-Man- blames the drink he's having
<mwhudson> i'm not sure, probably ~a day?
<Fly-Man-> Is there also a admin here that can delete a branch ?
<Fly-Man-> https://code.launchpad.net/~vcs-imports/fusionforge/trunk
<Fly-Man-> I managed to get a working transaction from bzr now ...
<mwhudson> Fly-Man-: yeah, i can delete that
<Fly-Man-> mwhudson: Thank you :)
<mwhudson> Fly-Man-: it's gone
<Fly-Man-> :)
<Fly-Man-> Now that other one is a mirrored one
<Fly-Man-> would I need to make a new branch for the export of the translations ?
<Fly-Man-> Hmm
<Fly-Man-> that's fast :D
<Fly-Man-> It already found all the files in the branches
<ripps> Is there going to be dedicated ppa launchpad bug reports? I maintain alot of packages in my gmpc-trunk team and I'd like to make easier to pass bugs to upstream
#launchpad 2009-09-27
<mwhudson> Fly-Man-: yeah, you'll need a hosted branch for the translation export to work
<Fly-Man-> okay, then I set it to the translations branch I made
<Fly-Man-> that's hosted by Launchpad
<Fly-Man-> that would work, right ?
<mwhudson> ripps: you mean a way of reporting a bug on "the package of X in ~Y's ppa" ?
<mwhudson> Fly-Man-: this branch? https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~flyman/fusionforge/translations
<mwhudson> Fly-Man-: yeah, should work
<mwhudson> (i guess the push is still running?)
<ripps> mwhudson: yeah, something like that
<ripps> brb
<mwhudson> ripps: i think it's in the "it would be nice but noone has quite figured out precisely what it means yet"
<mwhudson> category
<blueyed> I have locking problems, and "bzr break-lock lp-46123344:///~blueyed/b2evolution/dev/.bzr/branch/lock" (as suggested) says "Unsupported protocol"
<mwhudson> blueyed: yeah, the message is wrong :/
<mwhudson> blueyed: say bzr break-lock <url you push to>
<mwhudson> (bzr break-lock :push will work if you don't usually type a url for push)
<blueyed> I've used the "saved push location", and it worked. Thanks!
<mwhudson> np
<mwhudson> there's a bug on this, i think it might finally get fixed some time before the heat death of the universe...
<Fly-Man-> mwhudson: Any idea when the import queue is being processed
<Fly-Man-> or when the export on translation will be ?
<wgrant> Exports are done once a day.
<wgrant> I think bzr imports should be done fairly quickly, though.
<wgrant> Fly-Man-: ^^
<Fly-Man-> wgrant: translation file imports ?
<Fly-Man-> as I still see them in the iport queue
<wgrant> Ah, once they're in the queue it could take a while. I'm not sure how long, but I would expect only a few hours unless they're in the 'Needs Review' status.
<Fly-Man-> they're in the Needs Review
<wgrant> Fly-Man-: In that case they need manual approval from a Launchpad Translations developer, which is unlikely to happen before Monday.
<wgrant> (fortunately they only need manual approval once)
<Fly-Man-> https://translations.edge.launchpad.net/fusionforge/trunk/+imports
<Fly-Man-> I had it pull from the bzr trunk that was pulled
<jderose> hello, is there anyway to delete a pending build if you no longer need it?  i deleting it from my ppa, but it still shows up in my needs building builds.
<wgrant> jderose: No. It will proceed through the queue as normal, but I believe once it gets to the end it will basically be cancelled because the source has been deleted.
<jderose> wgrant: okay, thanks
<tzicatl> Hi every body. I want to make some debs and make the public using launchpad's PPA system. But It seems powerpc is not supported.
<tzicatl> Can I build them by myself and them upload them to PPA?
<ScottK> tzicatl: No.
<tzicatl> ScottL: OK.. thanks!!
<wgrant> tzicatl: There is a good reason that you can't upload them yourself: if I don't trust you but want to install the packages from your PPA, I just have to verify the diff in your source package. I know that the binaries are built from that, so if I trust the source I can trust the binaries.
<wgrant> If you were allowed to upload binaries yourself, you could upload binaries with malicious code that wasn't in the sources, and the path of trust would be broken.
<bjsnider> what's the process as far as creating a private ppa?
<wgrant> bjsnider: You'd be better off asking during the working week.
<bjsnider> so i'd have to specifically request it, and it's not something i can set up myself?
<wgrant> That's right.
<bjsnider> i see
<bjsnider> what are the rules for naming ppas now? i can't seem to get it right
<wgrant> What do you mean?
<bjsnider> i tried to create a new ppa, and it rejected the name
<bjsnider> all lowercase letters
<bjsnider> more than 2 characters
<bjsnider> but there must be something else
<wgrant> How did it reject it?
<bjsnider> it just said there was an error in the name
<wgrant> You don't have an old disabled PPA by the same name?
<bjsnider> no
<wgrant> And it's not 'ubuntu'?
<bjsnider> no
<wgrant> Is it complaining about the name, or the display name?
<bjsnider> ppa name "testing ppa" is rejected as invalid
<bjsnider> not the displayname. that's fine
<wgrant> I see a space there.
<wgrant> => not all lowercase letters
<wgrant> It's used in URLs, so may not have a space.
<bjsnider> Names must be at least two characters long and start with a letter or number. All letters must be lower-case.
<bjsnider> those are the only rules
<wgrant> It could have a hyphen, however.
<bjsnider> it doesn't say anything about spaces
<wgrant> Apparently not.
<wgrant> "The characters +, - and . are also allowed after the first character."
<wgrant> Which suggests that spaces are not.
<bjsnider> suggests
<tzicatl> wgrant: Not trusting binary packages seems a good reason why disallow uploading binary packages to PPA ..
<RenatoSilva> is ti my impression or new LP interface has introduced some bugs ?
<RenatoSilva> for example, can't delet milestones, can't propose new reviews in merge proposals, and diffs in these proposals are not being updated as LP 3.0 blog entry stands about
<wgrant> RenatoSilva: Can't propose new reviews?
<wgrant> And I have seen diffs updated, although some of them are failing.
<wgrant> Milestone deletion also works fine for me. Have you filed a bug mentioning an OOPS ID?
<RenatoSilva> wgrant: sorry, actually if I use the option on the right, resubmit review or so, then it works, but if you use the option on the left, right below current reviewer and status, then it won't work and that's what I mean
<RenatoSilva> wgrant: I've reported the oops id here a few time, with no answer :(
<wgrant> RenatoSilva: IRC is not a bug tracker.
<lifeless> RenatoSilva: we gather all the oops automatically, and try to figure out why
<lifeless> they can have many causes. If you have an oops on something you want to do, and discussing it here doesn't get a response from a developer, please file a bug.
<lamalex> Can anyone explain to me how automatic translation exports work? Will it literally make a commit to my branch? When does it do this?
<wgrant> lamalex: It will literally commit to your branch.
<wgrant> I think it does it daily, if files have changed.
<lamalex> wgrant: pretty cool
<happyaron> how to mirror a git branch into a launchpad bzr branch?
<wgrant> happyaron: https://code.launchpad.net/+code-imports/+new
<happyaron> thx
<wgrant> lifeless: Sorry. Bug #437535 is not a bug, but sorta my fault.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 437535 in launchpad "bug mail no longer lists project/package" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/437535
<wgrant> lifeless: Can you pastebin or attach the email with headers so I can see which bug yours is a duplicate of?
<lifeless> enjoy
<lifeless> not sure why you say its not a bug :P
<wgrant> lifeless: There's a per-person flag.
<lifeless> 'include_useful_data' ?
<wgrant> verbose_bug_notifications, actually.
<wgrant> That's interesting.
<wgrant> It's not fallout from my change.
<lifeless> what does that mean? It sounds like something I'd want off
<wgrant> It just includes the status information in the footer.
<lifeless> not the summary & description?
<wgrant> Description too, sorry.
<wgrant> Summary is always present, I believe.
<lifeless> right, which is terrible
<lifeless> sumamry is the mail subject
<wgrant> So, I think if you check your bug mail, those directed at you should never have had the status information.
<lifeless> so I think the relevant project should always be included, except for exceptional bugs it should be nore more than 2 or 3 lines
<wgrant> Those going to ~bzr probably would have, but won't have since 3.0.
<wgrant> You can turn it back on if you wish.
<lifeless> I want the project, not the sometimes pages long description
 * lifeless shoves his user hat on firmly
<wgrant> File a bug!
<lifeless> I did!
<lifeless> we're discussing it ;)
<wgrant> Either turn that into the new one, or file a new one.
<wgrant> Heh.
<lifeless> I think you'll find that it is the new one
<lifeless> I only talk about the affected project/package in my bug report
<wgrant> lifeless: You say it was there, and now is not. That's not the bug you speak of here.
<lifeless> wgrant: I'm confused
<wgrant> lifeless: You say in the bug that the information is no longer present. Now you say you want a set of information that was never present.
<lifeless> wgrant: it used to say, amongst other things, the project the task was on
<wgrant> right. But you don't want the other things, do you?
<lifeless> no, but I don't see how thats relevant to my rather specific bug
<lifeless> wearing a users hat here, remember
<wgrant> Your bug just says you want the old stuff back.
<wgrant> When you actually want just a subset.
<lifeless> well
<lifeless> you're upcasting my description
<lifeless> I describe project/package and request that back.
<wgrant> (to get it all back, hit the checkbox at the bottom of https://launchpad.net/people/+me/+edit)
<wgrant> True.
<wgrant> True true.
<lifeless> I don't request other stuff
 * wgrant mutates the description, if Launchpad will today so permit.
<lifeless> it sounds like 'you can get it back but you will get more back' is something that should be recorded.
<lifeless> and I can then say 'ah, but I love not getting the descriptions as they are noise except in the first mail of a bug thread'
<lifeless> wgrant: another useful datum: I don't particular care in the non-first mail of a bug thread.
<lifeless> wgrant: its the *first mail* where lp doesn't tell me which project the bug is for that this is particularly headache making
<wgrant> lifeless: I think it's always useful to have, but maybe only if one is dealing with lots of bugs.
<lifeless> I don't have an opinion about whether 'always on' or 'optional' is appropriate here. *I'd*'d put it always on if coding it myself
<mdke> am I right that Launchpad has stopped sending notification emails for commits on branches to the individual that makes the commit?
<wgrant> mdke: I don't believe so. That would make me very unhappy.
<mdke> yeah, me too
<wgrant> mdke: Not Gmail being stupid?
<mdke> just a problem with email delivery then
<mdke> I don't think it could be gmail stupidity, because all the emails are from noreply@
<wgrant> Oh, true.
<wgrant> I don't quite know how Gmail behaves, as I haven't used it for many years.
<mdke> I'll file a question
<wgrant> You're getting other commits from that branch?
<wgrant> Similar sorts of commits?
<mdke> not necessarily
<mdke> the last 9 commits have all been by me, and I'm missing those only
<wgrant> Ah.
<mdke> I had a previous one by me from a few days ago
<mdke> what's the right project to file a question on?
<wgrant> Let's see what sort of questions launchpad-code has...
<wgrant> I'd go with launchpad-code, I think.
<mdke> yep, looks ok to me, thanks
<Kmos> hi
<Kmos> there is any reason to bzr push get stuck and doesn't finish?
<Kmos> kmos@kmos:~/packages/apport-debian$ bzr push lp:~gothicx/apport/credentials_broken -v
<Kmos> [##################- ] Fetching revisions:Inserting stream:Walking content 2095/2249
<Kmos> in karmic.. it worked fine two weeks ago
<Kmos> kmos      1882  0.0  0.2   5700  2516 pts/1    S    10:38   0:00 ssh -oForwardX11=no -oForwardAgent=no -oClearAllForwardings=yes -oProtocol=2 -oNoHostAuthenticationForLocalhost=yes -l gothicx bazaar.launchpad.net bzr serve --inet --directory=/ --allow-writes
<Kmos> i see this
<lifeless> Kmos: its probably doing a just-in-time update
<lifeless> which means 'show' not 'stuck'
<lifeless> compare bzr info nostmart+:push -v
<lifeless> with bzr info -v
<lifeless> s/show/slow and update/upgrade
<Kmos> http://paste.debian.net/47617/
<spiv> I'm surprised "nostmart" even worked.  lifeless meant "nosmart".
<Kmos> the nosmart command doesn't show anything
<Kmos> wait, it's showiing
<Kmos> http://paste.debian.net/47618/
<wgrant> Yep, it's converting.
<wgrant> (the remote branch appears to be format 2a, the local format rich-root-pack)
<wgrant> Kmos: Any idea why your local branch is rich-root-pack?
<Kmos> wgrant: no.. i didn't execute any command
<Kmos> only bzr commit
<Kmos> so, if I do the push, it will convert it after some time?
<Kmos> i've done bzr upgrade and pushed, and it works now
<Kmos> thank you
<geser> it might be OT but does somebody know where to file bugs about irclogs.ubuntu.com?
<wgrant> geser: I'd poke in #canonical-sysadmin
<jpds> geser: rt@ubuntu.com
<Meths> Can everyone else see code.launchpad.net?
<mdke> Meths: I can
<Meths> okay, thanks
<vadi2> I'm having trouble finding the option to copy a package from another ppa into mine since lp 3.0. Didn't find anything in the help files either. Can anyone assist?
<vadi2> nm, finally found it :-/
<Phurl> Hi there, did i kill the server http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~kosova/+junk/openstreetmapkosova/revision/65
<Phurl> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~kosova/+junk/openstreetmapkosova/revision/64
<Phurl> and others are broken
<Phurl> ok it is ok now
<Scurz> hey
<Scurz> Can you make private a launchpa mailing list ?
<idnar> hrm
<idnar> if a merge proposal review is requested from a team I'm a member of, it doesn't show up on my ~user/+activereviews page
<idnar> is there another page I can look at, or something?
<mwhudson> idnar: that's a deliberate decision apparently, and i think it was a bad one
<idnar> I can understand why you might not want it, but it would be nice to have the choice
<idnar> "If you simply want to approve the proposal, using merge approved will also implicitly add an equivalent review approve unless you specify a review command separately. "
<idnar> oh whoops
<idnar> I forgot to GPG sign
<idnar> that always catches me :/
<idnar> it might be nice if Launchpad threw back an error instead of adding a useless comment to the merge proposal
<joaopinto> hello
<joaopinto> trying to update a bug description I get "Entity-body was not a well-formed JSON document.", is this a known bug ?
<penguin42> I'd like to suggest that the new reportingbugs page has something to make it easier for people to report doesn't-boot/doesn't install type bugs - I can see ubuntu-bug and friends is right for a booting system; but if it's DoA having to piece together URLs for a new user where it just doesn't install on his machine is too hard
<joaopinto> argh, found it https://bugs.launchpad.net/malone/+bug/423924
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 423924 in malone "Entity-body was not a well-formed JSON document when updating bug description" [High,Triaged]
* mwhudson changed the topic of #launchpad to: Read https://help.launchpad.net for help | Help contact: mwhudson | Join https://launchpad.net/~launchpad-users | This channel is logged: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | Launchpad is open source: see channel #launchpad-dev
<mac9416> Hello, somehow my Launchpad OpenID knows what my address is and is trying to send it to landscape.canonical.com :-/ How can I edit the info included with my OpenID?
<lifeless> log into launchpad
<lifeless> click on your name on the top right
<mac9416> lifeless, yessir, and all my usual info is there to edit, but certainly not my address.
<mac9416> Let me describe to you what I see at the login page....
<mac9416> "These details will be sent to Canonical:"
<mac9416> "* mac9416"
<mac9416> "* mac9416"
<mac9416> "* <email address>"
<mac9416> "<street address>"
<mac9416> "* <city>"
<mac9416> And the rest of the address. :-/
<lifeless> I have no idea how/where launchpad would be storing that
<mac9416> I never gave it that info either!
<mac9416> And it's got my phone number.
<mac9416> Nothing short of creepy.
<penguin42> mac9416: Have you given it to any other ubuntu.com sites?
<wgrant> It knows that because of ShipIt.
<mac9416> Ah I see.
<mac9416> ShipIt would know that.
<ia> hello. I'm worrying a bit, that package, which has been successfully uploaded ~3 hours ago, still in pending state - is this normal?
<mac9416> Any way I can remove it?
<wgrant> It will only send it to approved sites, which are probably only Landscape and ShipIt.
<wgrant> ia: No. Link?
<ia> wgrant: https://edge.launchpad.net/~iaz/+archive/gtk/+packages
<mac9416> wgrant, I frankly don't want it hanging onto any of my personal info unless I tell it that it's a permanent part of my openID.
<wgrant> ia: Oh, the *builds* are pending. That's not normal, but not unheard of. It just means the build farm is a little busy.
<wgrant> ia: If you look at the build pages, it seems that they should start soon.
<wgrant> mac9416: Maybe file a bug.
<mac9416> wgrant, so is there no way I can remove that/request it be removed?
<RenatoSilva> wgrant: Hi. I don't know why but milestone deletion worked for me now :)
<mac9416> wgrant, OK I'll do that.
<mac9416> Thanks.
<wgrant> mac9416: I don't know.
<wgrant> RenatoSilva: Odd. Was it a timeout before?
<RenatoSilva> any problem with translation auto export? I have changes imported, but they were not committed to the target branch
<wgrant> RenatoSilva: For how long have they been there?
<RenatoSilva> wgrant: several timeouts if it was
<RenatoSilva> wgrant: a few days
<wgrant> RenatoSilva: But were they timeout OOPSes, or normal OOPSes?
<lifeless> mac9416: file a question on https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad
<lifeless> mac9416: asking for it to be removed
<lifeless> mac9416: and separately we'll need a bug to write a UI to edit it directly.
<mac9416> lifeless, OK, thanks much. :-)
<ia> wgrant: hm, i'm asking about this, because before that i've looked at https://edge.launchpad.net/builders and looks like that there is a couple of available machines. However, thanks for clarifying.
<RenatoSilva> wgrant: can't recall now, do you have logs in this channel? search for RenatoSilva.*oops-id or so...
<ubottu> https://lp-oops.canonical.com/oops.py/?oopsid=id
<RenatoSilva> wgrant: let me show the translation....
<RenatoSilva> https://translations.launchpad.net/moin-solenoid/trunk/+pots/moin-solenoid/pt_BR/+translate ---> 14 translations but target branch is still outdated: https://code.launchpad.net/~renatosilva/moin-solenoid/translations
<RenatoSilva> wgrant: ^
<RenatoSilva> is it possible to require ownsership of an abandoned project?
<mwhudson> i think there's some problem with translations export to branch currently
<wgrant> RenatoSilva: Not sure about the translations issue, and all the people who do know had better be asleep.
<RenatoSilva> ok thanks anyway
<RenatoSilva> I'll wait
<RenatoSilva> what about ownership, I want to use LP to translate Moin, but I suspect the owner of moinmoin project doesn't use LP anymore and the project is abandoned
#launchpad 2010-09-27
<jbowtie> Are there any plans to provide anything like the graphs we can get out of Hudson? I'm thinking test coverage graphs specifically at the moment.
<thumper> jbowtie: nothing that I know of right now
<fta> bigjools, hi, another of my sftp upload disappeared into thin air (pushed to ppa.l.n)
<ochosi> is it in any way planned to have ppa user stats? (meaning: how many people are using a ppa)
<bigjools> yes, see bug 139855
<ubot5`> Launchpad bug 139855 in Soyuz "Display stats about PPA usage (affected: 29, heat: 205)" [Low,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/139855
<ochosi> thanks for the info bigjools
<ochosi> hi, ff doesn't let me post comments on launchpad, it throws me an error message (http://pastebin.com/wYC2g9p5). filing a bug and anything else works (ff 3.6.10 on xubuntu maverick). how can i debug this?
<ochosi> btw, network.http.sendRefererHeader in ff:about:config is "1"
<ochosi> ah right, sry people, forget this. seems putting it to "2" resolves the issue...
<fta> bigjools, (bis) hi, another of my sftp upload disappeared into thin air (pushed to ppa.l.n)
<fta> if you care to have a look
<bigjools> fta: what time and what package name please
<fta> bigjools, https://edge.launchpad.net/~chromium-daily/+archive/ppa/+packages  chromium, 535, hardy (where other dists have 536)
<bigjools> fta: what time did you upload?
<fta> 4:18am today (paris time)
<bigjools> 0218 UTC then
<fta> yep
<bigjools> fta: all your sessions close in about 300 milliseconds
<bigjools> I don't think you uploaded anything
<bigjools> I see everyone else staying connected for a few seconds at a time
<fta> i sure did, it's the same code for all dists, in a loop. only maverick has the tarball, all older dists only have the diff and small files
<fta> i didn't change the code of my bot in months, the only change is my dput config for ftp -> sftp
<fta> i have the trace if you want, but it's not showing anything unexpected
<fta> http://paste.ubuntu.com/501471/  (it's the last one)
<fta> bigjools, ^^
<bigjools> fta: dude, your session is crashing
<bigjools> see line 30 for example
<fta> nope, it's harmless, someone told me here that's it's a known issue, but it's uploaded properly, and it builds anyway
<fta> well, at least it works 99% of the time, just one or two missing uploads per week while i upload two dozens pkgs per day
<fta> bigjools, ^^  Sep 08 21:02:52 <jelmer>        fta: afaik that's a known bug in python-paramiko
<bigjools> fta: there's nothing else I can do, your session is closed at the client side very quickly
<fta> so if it's that unreliable, bye bye sftp
<bigjools> everyone else's uploads work
<bigjools> so there's a bug in your setup
<bigjools> it's not unreliable
<fta> i probably upload more than most, hence i see a bug that other missed
<fta> anyway, i'm tired of this, back to ftp :(
<bigjools> fta: ok I may have been a bit quick to dismiss your upload, I can see it getting processed successfully - I guess you must have a fast connection
<fta> indeed
<bigjools> so it was *only* the 535 version on hardy?
 * bigjools hunts for it
<bigjools> fta ^
<fta> yep, everything else worked fine (at least in that ppa)
<bigjools> fta: did you upload a 536 for hardy?
<fta> yes
<bigjools> ok
<fta> it's in the pastebin
<bigjools> ah right, sorry
<fta> i usually notice it on my dashboard: http://people.ubuntu.com/~fta/ppa-dashboard/chromium-daily.html or when users complain to me directly
<bigjools> fta: so, I've no idea why it's not getting processed.  I can see the session opening on the sftp server, and I can see all the other changes files getting subsequently processed, just not the hardy one.  I wonder if it's a coincidence that it's the last one uploaded.
<bigjools> can you try re-ordering them for your next run?
<bigjools> and we'll see if it's consistently hardy or consistently the last one uploaded
<fta> bigjools, it's not always the last one from the batch, last time, it was the 3rd out of 7
<fta> and it was jaunty
<bigjools> fta: ok interesting
<bigjools> fta: thanks for letting me know
<bigjools> fta: does it always happen or just sometimes?
<fta> and it never happened with ftp. started with sftp, or with the last lp upgrade, which happened almost the same date
<fta> |15:16] <fta> well, at least it works 99% of the time, just one or two missing uploads per week while i upload two dozens pkgs per day
<bigjools> ok thanks
<bigjools> fta: I filed bug 648917 if you want to subscribe.
<ubot5`> Launchpad bug 648917 in Soyuz "SFTP uploads randomly disappearing (affected: 1, heat: 6)" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/648917
<fta> sure, thanks
<nprasath002> hi, when i try to push a code to launchpad i get the following error!!!
<nprasath002>  bzr: ERROR: Target directory lp:~n-prasath-002/remotepress/main already exists, but does not have a .bzr directory. Supply --use-existing-dir to push there anyway.
<nprasath002> what i do now?
<bilalakhtar> nprasath002: Use the --use-existing-dir switch
<sjamaan> Hi, is something the matter with staging?
<sjamaan> I keep getting timeouts when visiting project pages
<deryck> sjamaan, hi.  I can access staging pages fine.  It has a lower timeout than other lp hosts, and sometimes needs a reload or two to prime caches.
<sjamaan> yeah, it's working now
<sjamaan> weird, I tried several reloads
<sjamaan> But now it's working
<sjamaan> How do I create polls, btw?
<sjamaan> I think I saw that on some project
<sjamaan> LOL, a search turned up this one: https://launchpad.net/~launchpad/+poll/launchpad-sucks
<sjamaan> ah, it's on the team page, not the project page
<sjamaan> "A poll cannot open less than 12 hours after it's created."
<sjamaan> WTH?
<daws> is there a channel for the ti launchpad?
<gnomefreak> seems Lp is taking forever to load
<nprasath002> what is a series and what is a branch??
<plitter> Hello, I have a Sony Vaio vpcf12s1e and the mouse is not recognized properly, my mic is also not working, could someone help me make a bug?
<plitter> oops, sorry for spamming, my laptop froze, I was wondering if someone could help me make a bug at launchpad for my mic and touchpad
<plitter> magic word please?
<maxb> plitter: Hi, #launchpad is mostly for help using the Launchpad website. For assistance with Ubuntu bug reports, please see #ubuntu-bugs
<plitter> maxb: thanks for clarifying, will go there now. (Almost feels like calling support and getting tossed around:P)
<charlie-tca> Hmm, Error adding a comment to a bug report:
<charlie-tca> The following errors were encountered: Object:,name:u'267'
<charlie-tca> There is an OK button, but there does not appear to be a way to add my comment to the bug
<deryck> charlie-tca, hi.  What bug number?
<charlie-tca> bug 441835
<ubot5`> Launchpad bug 441835 in udisks (Ubuntu Lucid) "Clicking on floppy gives "no device media found" (affected: 56, heat: 307)" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/441835
<deryck> charlie-tca, was this on edge.lp.net or lp.net?
<charlie-tca> lp
<charlie-tca> Wasn't on edge this time
<deryck> charlie-tca, can you try posting at edge url and see if that works:  https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/441835
<ubot5`> Launchpad bug 441835 in udisks (Ubuntu Lucid) "Clicking on floppy gives "no device media found" (affected: 56, heat: 307)" [High,Triaged]
<charlie-tca> sure
<deryck> this smells like a bug I just fixed.
<charlie-tca> ouch
<charlie-tca> sorry
<deryck> actually if edge works it's a good thing :-)
<charlie-tca> trying it
<charlie-tca> edge worked
<charlie-tca> Thank you
<deryck> excellent.  Glad it worked and is fixed now.
<charlie-tca> anything I can do to help with lp itself now/
<charlie-tca> ?
<deryck> charlie-tca, what do you mean?  To get the fix out to lpnet?
<charlie-tca> I mean any other information I can give to help you with it?
 * charlie-tca can not do the fixing, normally
<deryck> charlie-tca, ah, ok.  I think we're good on that fix.  Thanks for the offer, though!
<charlie-tca> Thank you for the help
<lvh> Hey.
<mwhudson> lvh: hello
<lvh> Has anyone considered having more plans for commercial Launchpad projects? Perhaps limiting the amount of contributors, or somesuch.
<lvh> (I'm picking a project management thing, preferably hosted, for my startup. I'm hovering between Github and Launchpad, and it's mostly a few dumb things Github does that make me favor LP -- the thing is, I'm a Bazaar junkie, and I'd be willing to do lots of things to keep my favorite VCS. I'm just thinking that other people might not pick you guys because they don't like Bzr as much as I do.)
<lvh> I mean, it's not that you're expensive as much as it's the competition being really, really cheap.
<lvh> Especially Bitbucket.
<lvh> (Granted, you deliver a lot more service, too.)
<lvh> I realise the comparison is a bit skewed, but still: LP's $250 a year for a project of any size, whereas Bitbucket would cost about a quarter and give me *five* repos.
<beuno> lvh, I agree that LP needs to work better at its commercial story
<beuno> I think the focus of the team right now is to make it work very well for Ubuntu and upstreams
<beuno> rather than making it a super attractive commercial product
<beuno> bac would know more, but he's in Vietnam somewhere right now
<lvh> beuno: yeah, it's definitely doing that now
<bac> no, here i am!
<beuno> oh look!
<lvh> beuno: but if you look at merge requests, they're already miles ahead of what github and bitbucket have
<beuno> it's a bac!
 * bac not gone yet
<beuno> lvh, yes, we worked hard on merge proposals  :)
<lvh> mostly because the underlying vcs makes this weird distinction between branches in the local repo and branches somewhere else
<lvh> beuno: and it shows, and I want this for my startup
<lvh> beuno: but github's getting there
<beuno> lvh, I think the current unbeatable story for LP is for products delivering software in Ubuntu
<beuno> with the PPAs and such
<lvh> basically I'm convinced a lot of stuff is better -- I'm just not sure it's good enough for me to convince other people it's $200 a year better for 4 person dev shops
 * beuno nods
<lvh> beuno: preaching to the choir
 * beuno hands lvh's suggestion to bac and goes back to running against his deadlines
<bac> beuno: FTR, mrevell is now the go-to-guy on commercial stuffs, though i'm always glad to help
<beuno> ah!
<bac> lvh: i understand your position or how our pricing model is not favorable for you but for other projects it works out well.
<lvh> bac: forget about me, I'm sold
<lvh> bac: I'm just having a hard time convincing other people that aren't and won't be customers
<bac> lvh: yes, i know the battle well!  :)
<lvh> bac: and yes, I'm not sure if it makes sense for a hypothetical commercial project the size of mysql, launchpad, landscape... to be as expensive to host as yet another iphone fart app
<AnAnt> Hello, what's wrong with launchpad bug reporting ?!
<mwhudson> AnAnt: what do yo umean?
<AnAnt> for the last two days I try to report a bug against maverick's kernel in launchpad, yet after I write the bug report I get an oops
<AnAnt> now, I am getting something difference
<AnAnt> now, I am getting something different
<AnAnt> I run: ubuntu-bug linux, so after I get asked the apport questions, apport *decides* that my bug has already been reported as bug #<whatever>
<mwhudson> ah
<mwhudson> the oops (timeouts?) are known, though i guess that doesn't help you
<mwhudson> apport isn't maintained by the same people as launchpad, some #ubuntu channel would be better for that...
<AnAnt> mwhudson: ok, thanks
<chx> is it possible to merge directly from launchpad? if the diff does not show conflicts, it should just work . it'd be so great.
<mwhudson> chx: rockstar is working on stuff related to that right now
 * chx grins widely
<chx> is there anything i can help with?
<chx> testing?
<rockstar> chx, mwhudson, I'm *kinda* working on that right now.
<rockstar> chx, doing the merging inside launchpad is possible, but we like to encourage people to have tests and stuff that get run right before a commit, so we keep everything working as best as possible.
<rockstar> I'm sure at some point, we'll have the one-click merge, but not just yet.
<chx> rockstar: oooo it's already possible? tell me more.
<rockstar> chx, er, I shouldn't say "possible" in that "users can use it right now" but just "developers could make the feature in the future" - Right now, most everyone uses Tarmac to land stuff for them.
<chx> so i install https://launchpad.net/tarmac and the approved merges just happen?
<rockstar> chx, yeah.  See the README, but basically, yeah, approved merges with a commit message just happen.
<chx> rockstar: ok, i have grabbed tarmac, ran python setup.py install
<chx> rockstar: i can't find anything like tarmac-authenticate
<rockstar> chx, `tarmac authenticate`
 * rockstar should update the docs...
<chx> bah
<chx> rockstar: i know ths is a stupid question but how do i set to a merge request to approved?
<rockstar> chx, in the merge request, there's a status up at the top.  If you have write permissions to the target branch, you can set it to approved.
<chx> rockstar: Status: Needs Review,there is a yellow exclamation mark, clicking it does not do anything
<chx> I most certainly have write permission....
<rockstar> chx, what browser are you using?
<chx> rockstar: Chrome
<chx> should i try firefox?
<rockstar> chx, try refreshing the page?  You should at least get taken to an form view, even if the javascript is broken.
<chx> Works with FF
<chx> Chrome hates it
<chx> rockstar: watching Chrome devtools shows me it loads the overlay in the DOM but it does not display in the browser.
<rockstar> chx, that's odd.  It works fine here.
<chx> rockstar: i am on 7.0.517.5-r59018
<chx> rockstar: we have seen funny things with Chrome, there is an extension that works with Chrome 7 but not with Chrome 6.
<chx> rockstar: so it might be that i am too bleeding edge.
<chx> rockstar: going on,  tarmac help merge says Usage:   bzr merge [BRANCH_URL] <= that should be tarmac, no?
<chx> rockstar: and tarmac merge -v lp:~examiner-dev/examiner/trunk does not display anything. i have authenticaed.
<rockstar> chx, #tarmac is probably a better venue for your questions.
<chx> oh you have a separate channelf or that?
<Kmos> hi
<Kmos> why bzr commit --fixes lp:529041 -m "Show message when a package isn't in Debian testing" lp:~gothicx/ubuntu-dev-tools/pull_source_not_in_testing
<Kmos> doesnt work?
<maxb> Kmos: It makes no sense to supply a branch location to "bzr commit"
<Kmos> maxb: hmm.. it still says lockdir without it
<Kmos> i can't remember how to use it.. i used this some months ago
<Kmos> damn
<maxb> Please explain in more detail what the problem is
<Kmos> i've trying to commit a change locally, so I can push it after to my personal branch, because I don't have permission to push it directly
<maxb> Erm, that's not making sense
<maxb> Write access is write access, no matter whether you're committing directly or pushing
<Kmos> I'm trying to do..
<Kmos> 1. bzr branch lp:ubuntu-dev-tools
<Kmos> 2. modify file
<Kmos> 3. commit changes
<Kmos> 4. push to my personal branch, so it can be reviewed
<maxb> First 'bzr commit', THEN 'bzr push lp:......'
<Kmos> I'm doing the bzr commit, and it shows me error..
<Kmos> bzr: ERROR: Cannot lock LockDir(lp-77407824:///%2Bbranch/ubuntu-dev-tools/.bzr/branchlock): Transport operation not possible: readonly transport
<Kmos> I've done this before =) something musd be wrong
<Kmos> s/musd/must
<maxb> Apparently you're trying to commit back to lp:ubuntu-dev-tools
<maxb> Please run 'bzr info' in your local branch, and paste the first line of the output into the channel
<Kmos>   checkout of branch: bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/%2Bbranch/ubuntu-dev-tools/
<maxb> Right, so you ran 'bzr checkout', not 'bzr branch'
<Kmos> hmm
<maxb> If you want to be where you would have been had you initially run 'bzr branch', you need to now run 'bzr unbind'
<Kmos> that's why not working :(
<Kmos> now it works
<Kmos> thank you so much
<Kmos> =)
<bialix> hey, what is Opinion status for a bug means?
<jbowtie> bialix: Depends slightly on the project, but mostly its to flag bugs that are actually debates rather than something immediately actionable.
<bialix> ok
<jbowtie> It doesn't close the bug but takes it off the developer's to-do list.
<bialix> so people can continue to argue about it?
<jbowtie> Yes. ;;)
<jbowtie> Before, the only option was to close the bug, which some people interpreted as trying to shut down the debate.
<jbowtie> While bug trackers aren't the best place to have a discussion (mailing lists are better) for larger projects or noteworthy bugs sometimes it happens anyway.
<jbowtie> At some points the developers just want to get back to work, so now they can makr the bug as "Opinion" (and split out anything actionable that still remains in the bug)
<jbowtie> There's a blog post about it: http://blog.launchpad.net/bug-tracking/new-bugs-status-opinion
<bialix> oh, thank you!
#launchpad 2010-09-28
<maxb> Any CHR / registry-admin around? Please retarget https://edge.launchpad.net/arduino dev focus from old-svn to trunk branch.
<thumper> maxb: I'll look
<poolie> spiv, jtv gave me a good long review of my flags-gui lp branch so i think i'll follow up on that first
<nprasath002> hi how to create a series in launchpad??
<lifeless> nprasath002: from the front page of your project - launchpad.net/PROJECTNAME
<nigelb> spm: You are the awesome :)
<spm> :-) 'tis a great story that one
<lifeless> what did I miss?
<spm> http://www.pbm.com/~lindahl/mel.html Story of Mel
<lifeless> oh, the real programmer ?
<lifeless> its a classic
<mwhudson> i also like the magic and more magic one
<mwhudson> http://catb.org/jargon/html/magic-story.html
<lifeless> yeah
<lifeless> I have a copy of the new hackers dictionary around here somewhere.
<nigelb> all you geeks :p
<mwhudson> well
<mwhudson> yes
<nigelb> :-)
<spm> *** FYI codehost is about to go down shortly for a Cherry Pick ***
<spm> and all done
<sander^work> Seems like someone deleted a file in yours ppa repository: http://pastebin.com/e8RRyxUW getting: W: Failed to fetch http://ppa.launchpad.net/kernel-ppa/ppa/ubuntu/dists/karmic/main/binary-amd64/Packages.gz  403  Forbidden
<sander^work> Are anyone able to fix it?.. or know who can fix it?
<bigjools> sander^work: not sure why you're getting a 403, I get a 404 here.  And that's because that PPA has no karmic packages.
<bigjools> only lucid
<bigjools> https://edge.launchpad.net/~kernel-ppa/+archive/ppa/+packages
<sander^work> bigjools, sorry.. was testing on wrong machine.
<sander^work> W: Failed to fetch http://ppa.launchpad.net/kernel-ppa/ppa/ubuntu/dists/lucid/main/binary-amd64/Packages.gz  403  Forbidden <-- Getting that on lucid
<bigjools> sander^work: works here, I expect you have a proxy that doesn't allow you to download that
<wgrant> Works fine here too.
<sander^work> Oh, ok.
<sander^work> Maybe.
<sander^work> bigjools, works when I removed the proxy.
* jtv changed the topic of #launchpad to: http://launchpad.net/ : all systems operational | Read https://help.launchpad.net/ for help | Help contact: - |  Join https://launchpad.net/~launchpad-users | This channel is logged: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | Launchpad is open source: https://dev.launchpad.net/
<geser> does somebody know if launchpad-buildd 66 is already in use? as it contains the bug fix for bug 604981
<ubot5`> Launchpad bug 604981 in Launchpad Auto Build System "The buildd doesn't support [linux-any] in build dependencies (affected: 1, heat: 7)" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/604981
<noodles775> geser: Given that r66 was in July, I'd certainly hope so (lamont? ^^). Is the bug still happening?
<wgrant> geser: The buildds are running 70, IIRC. Does it appear to not be fixed?
<lamont> that's been live for ages
<geser> wgrant: I didn't see any, but linux-any isn't that common yet and as that bug was still "Fix Committed" I wasn't sure
<geser> lamont: thanks, I'll set the bug to "Fix Released" then
<qwebirc59293> Quick question about recipes: If I don't select the daily build checkbox, will it only build on new revisions, or will I need to manually run the recipe each time?
<wgrant> qwebirc59293: Daily builds build daily only if there are new revisions.
<wgrant> If you don't check that, you will have to manually request each build.
<qwebirc59293> ok thx
<james_w> https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~bchesneau/+recipe/couchapp-daily is marked as "build daily", but has no information about younger than 9 days, is it in fact trying to build daily, or are the jobs not being created at all?
<wgrant> james_w: There have been no commits in 9 days.
<wgrant> james_w: A build will be triggered on tip change, but at most once a day.
<james_w> ah
<james_w> of course
<james_w> "build daily if changed"
<shtylman_> what is the best way to turn off (or filter emails) for bugs that I subscribed to myself versus being auto subscribed becaused I am a member of a team?
<shtylman_> is there such a feature in lp?
<mgedmin> there are a bunch of X-Launchpad-... email headers you could probably filter on
<shtylman_> mgedmin: thanks
<mgedmin> https://help.launchpad.net/Bugs/Subscriptions#headers
<mgedmin> so /^X-Launchpad-Message-Rationale: Subscriber @/ would catch all emails you get because you're auto-subscribed as a member of any team
<barry> sinzui: ping
<sinzui> hi barry
<barry> sinzui: hi!  first, pleasantries: how have you been? :)
<sinzui> I think I may be fine
<barry> :)  will i see you at uds?
<sinzui> yes
<barry> awesome.  so... my question is about merge proposal emails.  know much about them?  they don't play nicely with mailing lists
<sinzui> I do not know much about them
<barry> sinzui: okay cool.  who's the best personal to chat about them with?  or maybe i should just file a bug and see who responds :)
<sinzui> barry, I think rockstar and abentley are awake and have hacked on them
<barry> sinzui: cool, thanks.  hi rockstar, abentley
<abentley> barry: they're not really meant to play well with mailing lists.
<barry> abentley: the problem is that when i reply to an mp, it gets sent to the driver with a forged To address.  i.e. To is the owner of the branch (i think), and the driver sees that person's email in the To.  it doesn't play well with mailing lists 'cause you get an 'implicit destination' which you can't fix, but it's also misleading for the copy sent to you directly.
 * barry goes to file a bug
<abentley> barry: it will take me a while to swap in the To address handling, but it's based on who is subscribed to the branch, minus anyone whose email address is private.
<abentley> barry: I believe there's no difference between what we're doing and BCCing someone.
<barry> abentley: of course, there's the To field and the RCPT TO envelop recipient.  obviously the latter is correct 'cause i'm getting the emails both directly and through the list (with approval glitch).  but i'm guessing that every recipient is getting the same copy of the message, when they should probably get a personalized To header
<barry> abentley: right, and that's a problem ;)
<abentley> barry: We were going for mailing-list-like behaviour.  Mailing lists don't personalize the To header.
<barry> abentley: well, they can (mailman has "full personalization" for that), but also, the To will be the mailing list so that generally goes through without a hitch.  of course if i sent a message to you and bcc'd the mailing list, you'd have the same problem with almost every mlist around
<barry> abentley: if the To field was the mp+12345@code.launchpad.net, that would also solve the problem, because i could set up a regexp to allow that through
<abentley> barry: Really?  Mailing lists insert themselves into the To header?  I thought that was just an artifact of the way the messages were sent to the mailing list.
<barry> abentley: they are, but that's what makes it work :)
<barry> (which is why To: abently; Bcc: mylist@example.com would probably fail)
<abentley> barry: what does "you get an 'implicit destination' which you can't fix" mean?
<barry> abentley: mailman has a default filter which says, the mailing list address must be in the recipients list.  i.e. it must be in To or CC.  it has a facility for allowing aliases (i.e. allowing To: yourlist@example.com through for mylist@example.com), but it can't be bcc'd because spammers do that all the time.  when the To is the branch owner, mp emails will always have a different To header that i can't write a regexp for
<barry> or alias
<barry> because that would essentially be everyone in the world
<barry> abentley: brb, but i'm going to file a bug on this and we can discuss further there
<abentley> barry: I will have to double-check how we generate the "To" field, but we can probably work around this by subscribing your mailing list directly.
<barry> abentley: cool
<abentley> barry: The "To" address logic is at lib/lp/code/mail/branchmergeproposal.py:110
<abentley> barry: It only shows those who have been requested to review.
<abentley> barry: And it ignores teams, and those with hidden email addresses.
<barry> abentley: thanks, i'll take a look
<barry> abentley: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/649927
<ubot5`> Launchpad bug 649927 in Launchpad itself "merge proposal emails Bcc'd to forged To address (affected: 1, heat: 6)" [Undecided,New]
<abentley> barry: merge proposal emails are NOT sent with a To: header set to the owner of the branch
<barry> abentley: that was just a guess based on observation ;)
<abentley> barry: But I've told you how they work, so you shouldn't need to guess.
<abentley> barry: I don't understand this suggesting that we include the merge proposal to address.  We do include the merge proposal to address.
<abentley> barry: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/502176/
<vila> to whoever implemented displaying bugs on the mp page when the submission used --fixes lp:nnn, I'd like to say: thanks you, well done !
<jdaly_> hello! I seem to have a problem where my user in launchpad is not registering karma for revisions its been going on for a bit now. I had the problem once before and it was fixed on your end. Any ideas? My user is skinny.moey
<maxb> jdaly_: Are revisions you have pushed shown as hyperlinks to your launchpad profile?
<jdaly_> maxb: I assume your asking if I can see the revisions if I look in my profile, then yes I can. My last revisions at https://code.launchpad.net/~skinny.moey/drizzle/transaction_log_644529 1796,1797 and 1798 do not show up in my karma for example. There are many older versions as well in other branchs.
<maxb> jdaly_: However, "Joseph Daly <jdaly@rx7>" is showing as plain text. If Launchpad was able to link it to your Launchpad identity, it would be a hyperlink
<maxb> For revisions to be associated with your Launchpad identity, they *must* be committed with a valid email address, and that email address must be associated with your Launchpad account.
<jdaly_> maxb: ah, I vaguely remembering doing something with bzr to register a email, this was a host I setup about a month ago I must not have done that.
<maxb> jdaly_: bzr whoami "Joseph Daly <xxx@yyy.zzz>"
<jdaly_> maxb: I see now. thanks much for your help!!
<smako5> hi everyone
<smako5> is anyone form California ?
<smako5> go to www.smakoenterprises.com for break room supplies
<beuno> look at that, I didn't even know I had op access here
<ari-tczew>  Bug watch updates for Debian Bug tracker are disabled.
<ari-tczew> huh?
<deryck> ari-tczew, we require a local copy of the debian bugs, and we're out of disk space.  Drives are ordered.
<james_w> why has launchpad deleted the .orig.tar.gz that is references from one of my PPAs?
<james_w> that's not very nice
<nhandler> Hmm...I changed the ppa a daily build recipe was pushing to, but new builds still go to the old PPA https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~classbot-dev/+recipe/classbot-devel-daily
<harpreet> Hi everyone
<harpreet> I have a small question.
<blindvt> hi
<harpreet> we create ubuntu pacakge of our product and upload it to ppa , earlier there were only 2 packages one for lucid and other for karmic, and they both had clear distinct names
<blindvt> i seem to be unable to find guidance on how to use launchpad for managing the translations of a projects (i.e. register a project and enable rosetta for it)
<harpreet> but now we will also be creating pacakge for maverick but we are thinking to have similar name fro lucid and maveric (ex. product-test-version-lucid and product-test-version-maverick), but in this names we are getting the orig.tar,gz with same names. so my question here is will it effect us in any way?
#launchpad 2010-09-29
<nhandler> So, any ideas about my weird recipe issue?
<wgrant> james_w: How do you know it has? The +files link 404s?
<james_w> wgrant: yeah
<wgrant> nhandler: When did you make the change?
<nhandler> wgrant: Within the past 24 hours. However, there have been several builds using the recipe since the chance was made, all used the old ppa
<wgrant> james_w: Known Soyuz bug. The file probably isn't actually gone. Which file, which PPA?
<james_w> wgrant: ok, it's not important then
<james_w> wgrant: I got it from the history of the primary archive, and if it's a known bug it doesn't need any more investigation
<wgrant> james_w: It may be the known bug.
<james_w> I think I deleted the packages now, let me check
<james_w> yeah, deleted them, sorry
<wgrant> OK.
<wgrant> Bug #522800
<ubot5`> Launchpad bug 522800 in Soyuz "Broken link in PPA package details page (404) (affected: 6, heat: 28)" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/522800
<wgrant> The diagnosis in the comments is wrong -- the description is correct.
<ochosi> hi everyone, was trying to upload to my ppa (via dput) five times now and the transfer always stalled one kb before completion, what could be causing this?
<bigjools> ochosi: it's a known bug, we don't really know why.  Can you try using sftp instead?
<ochosi> aha, same url as with dput?
<ochosi> bigjools: i edited dput.cf and set sftp as method. same result.
<bigjools> ochosi: I've never seen it happen with sftp, can you paste your session?
<ochosi> bigjools: http://pastebin.com/Ur0T1K5w
<maxb> The sftp mode of dput does not support progress indicators, thus, you must be using ftp
<ochosi> hm, ok, let me check dput.cf again whether i made a mistake there
<maxb> ochosi: http://paste.ubuntu.com/502574/
<ochosi> thanks maxb, sftp works now
<ochosi> ok, i got an AttributeError but the upload has been successful this time
<bigjools> yes, that's harmless
<ochosi> ok, thanks for your help bigjools and maxb
<bigjools> np
<ochosi> the launchpad ppa-uploading page tells me i need to upload .dsc,.changes etc. when using sftp, but dput complains when i try to upload anything other than source.changes
<mgedmin> dput takes the .changes files and figures out which dsc/etc. it needs to upload
<wgrant> So just give it the .changes -- it will upload the rest automatically.
<ochosi> right, somehow i was surprised that my ppa didn't show a build-queue for the package (as it used to until last week, when i uploaded a package with ftp), so i thought i missed something
<wgrant> ochosi: That can take up to five minutes to appear.
<ochosi> wgrant: is it possible that lp slightly changed its layout in that respect?
<wgrant> ochosi: That hasn't changed significantly for around a year.
<ochosi> wgrant: hm, ok. well thanks anyway, it seems it worked out ok
<ochosi> (i just thought i remembered some line saying "1 package waiting to build" and that doesn't appear anymore)
<wgrant> ochosi: Hm, that should still be there.
<wgrant> Unless the build has started already.
<ochosi> yeah, strange, it wasn't. although it showed that i recently uploaded a package
<wgrant> ochosi: Which is your PPA?
<ochosi> wgrant: https://launchpad.net/~shimmerproject/+archive/ppa
<wgrant> ochosi: The build finished three minutes after the upload was processed. So you may have missed the message.
<ochosi> wgrant: it's not impossible (but i thought i monitored it closely)
<ochosi> wgrant: i'll check again when i upload packages next time
<wgrant> ochosi: One thing that has changed: as of a few hours ago builds are being dispatched much more quickly.
<wgrant> So it's going to be a lot easier to miss that message.
<ochosi> ah right, that might be it
<ochosi> i realised that this build went through very quickly
<wgrant> Previously it could have even taken 15 minutes to dispatch.
<wgrant> Now it should be seconds.
<ochosi> cool, what changed?
<ochosi> (btw copying packages still seems to take as long as before)
<wgrant> What takes a long time?
<wgrant> Waiting for them to be published?
<ochosi> copying packages from lucid to maverick
<ochosi> yeah, actually i guess it's publishing
<ochosi> not copying that takes a while
<wgrant> That only happens every five minutes at the moment.
<ochosi> right, 5min is actually not that long
<wgrant> It's the same for copied and uploaded packages.
<ochosi> maybe i should stop refreshing that page every min :)
<m2j> Hi, is there a reason why launchpad delivers UTF-8 encoded HTML files without encoding information in the XML header?
<jml> m2j: probably not?
<LinuxJedi> grr... vpns can be a pita sometimes
<m2j> jml: Someone reported wired characters, but he disapperaed before I could ask for the browser. I think he uses Windows. If I can expect that it is a Launchpad bug I will report it.
<jml> m2j: best to go ahead & report it.
<m2j> jml: OK. I will do so.
<jml> m2j: thanks. :)
 * mgedmin ponders the meaning of XML headers in HTML files
<m2j> mgedmin: In the HTML file there is a XML doctype information. But neigther there nore in the HTML header there is a encoding information.
<mgedmin> you mean <!doctype>?  that's not XML and it doesn't contain encoding information in any case
<mgedmin> an <?xml version="1.0"?> implies UTF-8, unless a different encoding is explicitly specified
<mgedmin> <meta charset="UTF-8"> would be nice to have, though
<mgedmin> (well, probably the old <meta http-equiv=... spelling of it)
<m2j> mgedmin: OK. So I should make a bug report to ask for a <meta charset="UTF-8"> entry?
 * mgedmin <-- not a launchpad developer
<mgedmin> if I were, I suppose I'd be most interested in a bug saying: "if I do these steps: ..., I get weird characters instead of the correct ones shown here"
<m2j> mgedmin: So I can't do anything cause the porblem occured on someone others computer and I don't know the details.
<popey> is login.launchpad.net broken?
<popey> Lost something?
<popey> There's no page with this address in the Launchpad Login Service. Check that you entered the address correctly and try again.
<popey> (Error ID: 1733carambolalaunchpad21)
<popey> when trying to logon to loco.ubuntu.com
<thekorn> hi,
<thekorn> it seems like the OpenID service is down/broken/whatever
<thekorn> I get Error ID: 1733carambolalaunchpad108)  when I try to login to identi.ca
<thekorn> with   https://launchpad.net/~thekorn    as OPenID url
<noodles775> thekorn, wgrant: apparently it's fixed now? (so I've been told by the ISD guys).
<wgrant> noodles775: Indeed, thanks.
<wgrant> popey: It should be fixed now.
 * popey tries
<popey> wgrant: confirmed
<popey> thanks
<mars> bigjools, ping, I have a newbie question about getting distro packages into a PPA
<bigjools> mars: yep?
<mars> bigjools, ok, so I read the PPA docs, but I still don't see how (or if) I can get this into my PPA: https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/lucid/+source/psycopg2/2.0.13-2ubuntu2
<mars> bigjools, I thought "I can just copy the package", but does that not work for getting distro packages into a PPA?
<bigjools> mars: copying from distro to a PPA is easy with the API, not easy with the UI
<mars> bigjools, is there a recipe for doing so, and if it is not written down somewhere, where would we write it down for others to see?
<bigjools> mars: use the IArchive.syncSource() API call
<mars> I have the dread feeling that I am trying to fix the lawnmower by sticking my hand in it...
<mg_> Can anyone help me with a question about legal jurisdiction for Launchpad? Both Sourceforge and Google block access from certain countries due to American political restrictions and I would like to avoid this problem. I currently have a project on Sourceforge that I would like to move elsewhere due to this and am looking for assurances that I won't run into the same problem on Launchpad.
<noodles775> bac: ^^ Is that something you looked at once before?
<mg_> I asked that question here a couple of weekends ago, but I was told to try asking it during a weekday when it was more likely someone would be here who could answer it.
<noodles775> mg_: as far as I know, Launchpad is not under American political restrictions as it's not hosted in the states, but best to wait for someone who knows more.
<mg_> Sourceforge sprang the change on their users without warning, which was a bit of a shock.
<bac> mg_: yours is a question for mrevell
<mg_> Mathew Revel? How should I contact him? Via e-mail?
<mrevell> Hi mg_
<mg_> I had a question about legal juristdiction, I'll copy paste it here again
<mg_> Can anyone help me with a question about legal jurisdiction for Launchpad? Both Sourceforge and Google block access from certain countries due to American political restrictions and I would like to avoid this problem. I currently have a project on Sourceforge that I would like to move elsewhere due to this and am looking for assurances that I won't run into the same problem on Launchpad.
<mrevell> mg_: Launchpad is hosted in the UK, it's okay I saw your question
<mrevell> mg_: Can you give me your email address please? (PM is fine) I'll get a better answer for you.
<mg_> I don't have a lauchpad account, how would I PM you?
<mrevell> mg_: I meant in IRC ... /msg mrevell Here's my email address
<mrevell> or similar
<mg_> Sorry, I don't use IRC much, so I didn't know that. However, no e-mail address showed up in your PM.
<mrevell> mg_:  My email address is matthew.revell@canonical.com
<mg_> Thanks, I will send you that right away.
<mrevell> mg_ Thanks :)
<mg_> Thanks, your PM just showed up now (it was delayed for some reason).
<mtaylor> if there's any losas around, I've got a user who's trying to reset his password and aparently it's not working
<mars> bigjools, I added a working recipe for what you described earlier to copy the old package forward to Maverick: https://help.launchpad.net/API/Examples
<bigjools> mars: you probably want to have include_binaries=True
<bigjools> but looks good, thanks.  If people are going to backport to PPAs I'd rather they copied than re-upload I guess.
<mars> fixed
<mars> bigjools, btw, I like the PPA build icons.  Nice use of animation
<bigjools> yeah we've had those a while now!
<mars> Well, I have never used PPAs before :p
<bigjools> oh really?  how did you find the experience?
<mars> well, I found the "Create your PPA" page a bit confusing.  It says "Read the ToC", and "Sign the Ubuntu Code of Conduct", but
<mars> but the link to Terms of Service was at the top of the page, not by the checkbox that says "Yes, I read the document you are asking for"
<bigjools> mars: would you mind filing bugs?
<mars> bigjools, certainly
<bigjools> cheers
<mars> bigjools, besides that it was straight-forward
<bigjools> cool
<bcurtiswx_> whats the limit to direct contacts through launchpad?
<bcurtiswx_> 1 per 2 hours?
<maco> i thought 3 per day...
<bcurtiswx_> i sent 1 today... and it said i can't try again for another 2 hours
<ari-tczew> where can I request a bug in paste.ubuntu.com? it's affected by spam-bots.
<tgm4883> affected by spam bots?
<ari-tczew> tgm4883: http://paste.ubuntu.com/502764/
<tgm4883> yea but, I mean do you just browse the pastebin or something?
<ari-tczew> tgm4883: I watched with curiosity on random pastebins and I noticed spam.
<tgm4883> but.... why?
<tgm4883> you just like to look at random logs?
<ari-tczew> tgm4883: as I said: with curiosity. do you have any sensible questions?
<tgm4883> I guess you probably want to report a bug to https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-website
<tgm4883> ari-tczew, so you want them to delete the spam then?
<ari-tczew> tgm4883: OMFG... Cleaning spam is not a way. this website needs to be fixed. e.g. there should be a token for prevent.
<tgm4883> ari-tczew, chill out dude. Just asking. not entirely sure how you are going to prevent all the spam in the world
<tgm4883> especially on a pastebin. How do you expect to prohibit spammers from putting up spam on it and yet still allow anonymous users to post things?
<ari-tczew> tgm4883: I mean prevent spam @paste.ubuntu.com. where do you see "in the world"? and about my upset: you are asking for obvious things.
<tgm4883> ari-tczew, no, I don't think you understand pastebin
<tgm4883>  How do you expect to prohibit spammers from putting up spam on paste.ubuntu.com and yet still allow anonymous users to post things?
<tgm4883> also, what is obvious to one person, isn't obvious to all
<tgm4883> otherwise there would be no bugs (aside from lazy developers)
<ari-tczew> tgm4883: the first thing on my mind was token
<maxb> A token?
<maxb> This sounds like you would break pastebinit
<tgm4883> ari-tczew, again, I don't think you understand the premise behind pastebins
<tgm4883> maxb, I think it would break anything that uses the API
<tgm4883> ari-tczew, I don't want it to seem like I'm dismissing your idea, I do want to fix bugs. Either I don't understand your thoughts on how to fix the issue, or you don't understand how pastebins work
<tgm4883> If it's me just being dense, please explain
<tgm4883> brb in 5 for lunch
 * micahg thinks this is OT
<ari-tczew> tgm4883: lol, paste.ubuntu.com wanted me to login through openid, so where is the anonymous?
<micahg> ari-tczew: that's only for download
<ari-tczew> micahg: nope. now my full name is exist when I want to paste something
<ari-tczew> your anonymous sucks
<micahg> ari-tczew: only if you've logged in in the past
<ari-tczew> micahg: ok, so where is the log-out option?
<ari-tczew> clear cookies?
<micahg> ari-tczew: yeah, delete the cookie (that's probably worth filing a bug on :))
<ari-tczew> buehehehe
<ari-tczew> funny
 * micahg still thinks this is OT :)
<ari-tczew> I don't care about. I asked where can I talk about this case. I didn't get an answer.
<micahg> ari-tczew: ah, #ubuntu-website :)
<ari-tczew> thanks micahg
<tgm4883> yea this is OT. ari-tczew you can do it anonymous, I just did. In either case, I posted the link long ago for you to file the bug against
<snoflake> what does it mean to mark a blueprint as superseded?
<tgm4883> snoflake, I've always used it as "Some other blueprint/bug fix/something else has essentially added the functionality that this blueprint was meant to accomplish, thus this blueprint isn't needed anymore"
<snoflake> tgm4883: thanks
<blindvt> sinzui, see my comment on bug 540195 (in your inbox)
<ubot5`> Launchpad bug 540195 in Launchpad Registry "ssh keys are not linked if the key doesn't have a comment (affected: 1, heat: 1)" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/540195
<blindvt> sinzui, i don't know where i could patch that in myself but you get the idea.. Please holler if i can help to rectify this somehow. TIA
<blindvt> sinzui, oh, and i hereby assign this trivial snippet to you, if this would be of concern to somebody ;)
<blindvt> s/assign/assign copyright for this/
<sinzui> blindvt, The issue is why do we require a comment. I am not sure if we can drop it, or permit it to be empty
<blindvt> sinzui, someone (you?) said that we need it as a link-text.
<sinzui> not me but that make it clear it is needed by Launchpad. But since it is not required by ssh, we might consider a way to generate the comment
<blindvt> another thing: my "Translation import queue for open-phd-guiding" still lists my two files as "needs review" after 24 hours. Whom should i poke to get that reviewed? :)
<blindvt> sinzui, the comment is in fact needed as link-name. I've entered "Bernhard" as comment and that resulted in this html-code: http://paste.debian.net/92424/
<sinzui> blindvt, a rosetta admin like jtv, danilo or henninge can help qith the queue
<blindvt> sinzui, so a default of kind or "id" is fine. I'd pick the hardcoded string "id" just to avoid using user-provided input but i don't know how the surrounding code looks like.
<blindvt> sinzui, see?
<sinzui> I think we could make the SSHKeySet.new() method  fallback to Person.name if the comment is not needed.
<sinzui> I do not think the comment needs to be unique, so using name (which is launchpad id) will work fine
<maxb> LP certainly is quite happy letting me add multiple keys with the same comment
<sinzui> excellent
<maxb> The comment is really only useful to the owner of the key to easily pick which one to delete
<blindvt> maxb, and for the UI to provide a clickable link. '<a href="+sshkeys">id</a>' works but an empty comment like '<a href="+sshkeys"></a>' would be a bit counter-intuitive
<blindvt> maxb, i only have one key there, but if all keys just point to +sshkeys then any comment would do
<maxb> yes, it's not a very obvious UI
<blindvt> maxb, to summarize: default comment to "id" and everybody is happy (and raise more elaborate error-messages for import errors like in the snippet i pasted to this issue)
#launchpad 2010-09-30
<sladen> I occasionally hear of reports of a script for expiring bugs that uses the LP API
<sladen> does anyone have a pointer for this---I spent about an hour hunting last night, without success
<TiK> hi
<TiK> how might I report a big I have found?
<TiK> er bug
<sladen> TiK: http://launchpad.net/launchpad/+filebug
<wgrant> TiK: What have you found a bug in?
<TiK> rythmbox in 10.10
<TiK> it's broken w/ ipod
<TiK> I had to run 19.04 in a VM to update
<wgrant> TiK: Try the "Report a Problem..." item in Rhythmbox's Help menu
<TiK> to late
<wgrant> Hm?
<TiK> ill do both
<TiK> I filed a bug already
<TiK> brb
<sladen> TiK: what's the link to the bug number?
<wgrant> It was bug #651652
<ubot5`> Launchpad bug 651652 in Launchpad itself "IPOD SUPPERT (rythmbox) 10.10 (affected: 1, heat: 6)" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/651652
<TiK> back
<TiK> yeah
<wgrant> It's far better for it to be refiled than retargeted, as we will get apport information that way.
<TiK> I know
<TiK> I said I would do both
<TiK> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/rhythmbox/+bug/651659
<ubot5`> Launchpad bug 651659 in rhythmbox (Ubuntu) "ipod will not update correctly in 10.10 using rythmbox (affected: 1, heat: 6)" [Undecided,New]
<TiK> i love launchpad
<TiK> this is a big issue imo
<TiK> gonna update my ipod in .04 bb
<TiK> hah "seppert" quick typing isn't good
<MTecknology> Any chance someone is around to make a PPA private?
<kklimonda> MTecknology: isn't it unavailable for "free" accounts?
<persia> kklimonda, Typically, but who says a given account is "free" :)
<kklimonda> persia: hmm, indeed - but I've assumed that there is a nice gui for making a ppa private and you get a "how to make a ppa private" email along with the paid LP license or whatever it is :)
<persia> I think making a PPA private requires a LOSA to access the nice GUI.
<kklimonda> btw
<kklimonda> why there is still rt.ubuntu.com?
<kklimonda> it feels like some secret organization inside Canonical ;)
<persia> kklimonda, rt.ubuntu.com isn't secret.  It's the way we request stuff from #canonical-sysadmin for infrastructure managed by Canonical.
<kklimonda> persia: any reason it couldn't be done with LP?
<persia> RT is a bit more feature-full for that sort of things (workqueues, etc.), but also just legacy: rt.ubuntu.com predates LP.
<MTecknology> kklimonda: ya.. you first go through and purchase the ticket; then once you apply it to a project there's 1yr that it's active;  you need a losa to make the change
<MTecknology> which seem to be vacant..
<MTecknology> wgrant: perhaps you're still around?
<persia> Well, it's Thursday.
<wgrant> MTecknology: Still? It has just gone 1pm.
<wgrant> spm: ^^
<wgrant> But he may be lunching.
<MTecknology> wgrant: alrighty, thanks :)
<persia> "losa" ought be sufficient ping anyway
<nhandler> 36
<MTecknology> 37
<MTecknology> :P
 * persia wishes irssi had better OOB signaling semantics
<wgrant> Yes :(
<spm> kklimonda: speaking 1. very much personally and 2. as someone who uses both RT and LP for task tracking, LP is no where near as efficient for *task* tracking/management as RT. LP is focused around bugs. it may not seem like it, but use both a lot and the difference is painfully obvious.
<spm> MTecknology: which project?
<MTecknology> spm: https://edge.launchpad.net/~kalliki/+archive/testing
<spm> MTecknology: is done, have at it!
<lifeless> spm: could it be that LP is slow?
<MTecknology> spm: thanks :)
<spm> lifeless: in what respect? it's seems normal to me atm?
<wgrant> RT's more flexible priorities are handy for task tracking.
<lifeless> spm: har har har
<spm> dashboards are win
<spm> lifeless: heh, actually I wasn't joking - thought that was a serious "OMG LP IS SLOW ATM" comment. :-)
<lifeless> spm: it is, but no slower than yesterday.
<spm> ah
<spm> rephrase. *flexible* dashboards that I can adjust to a view that suits *me*, are win. we have several that we use across the entire ISO team, but I spend most of my life looknig at just 2; noe for me, and one for all losas. saved search queries are another plus
<lifeless> ctrl-D ?
<swoody> how do I purge a mailing list before I delete a team? I deactivated it, but am still unable to see an option to purge it :/
<wgrant> spm: Does that require an admin?
<swoody> ah, found it, both team and project deletion need admin powa! :)
<LinuxJedi> hi guys, any idea why the triage details are suddenly showing up in the project row as well as the targeted release row in this: https://bugs.launchpad.net/drizzle/+bug/647360
<ubot5`> Launchpad bug 647360 in Drizzle elliott "drizzzledump mysql migration needs documenting (affected: 1, heat: 6)" [High,Fix released]
 * LinuxJedi is pretty sure this wasn't happening yesterday
<LinuxJedi> it appears to be happening for all our bugs
<LinuxJedi> which is causing duplicates in the milestone view
<tumbleweed> We allow usernames with +s in them? This guy has just opened some bugs, but I can't see his profile https://edge.launchpad.net/~guy+launchpad-net
<tumbleweed> i.e. bug 651992
<ubot5`> Launchpad bug 651992 in Ibid "failed dependency in setup.py (affected: 1, heat: 6)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/651992
<wgrant> tumbleweed: That account has been renamed.
<wgrant> But +s are normally fine.
<wgrant> (ghalse is the new name)
<wgrant> You must have looked at the link at just the wrong time.
<tumbleweed> wgrant: ok, I suspected as much
<paissad_> hello guys,
<paissad_> i have an account in launchpad and some packages into my dedicated repo there
<paissad_> but i would like to know if i'm obliged to upgrade to Maverick before creating a package for Maverick ?
<paissad_> thanks in advance
<shadeslayer> paissad_: nope
<shadeslayer> but you should have a maverick pbuilder to test build those pacjages
<shadeslayer> *packages
<shadeslayer> just replace lucid with maverick in the first line of the changelog
<paulmck> Hello!  Any hints on what I need to do to be able to update https://blueprints.launchpad.net/linux-linaro/+spec/linaro-tr-kernel-memory-regions?  I am logged in as https://blueprints.launchpad.net/~paulmck, and am supposed to have the relevant permissions.
<jml> paulmck: looking...
<paulmck> jml: Never mind -- pilot error.  I am used to the "Change details" link, and just now learned of the little icon near "Whiteboard".  Apologies for my confusion!!!
<jml> paulmck: np :)
<Linden940> I need a hand real fast if anyone could help
<Linden940> I am the team leader for team-dallas and I am trying to set up a project page for that team but I dont know how to link them
<Linden940> how would I do that?
<xrg_> admins here? Could you take a look at lp:~openerp-dev/openobject-addons/trunk-dev-addons3 , please?
<mars> xrg_, what is the problem?
<xrg_> mars: thanks. This repo is slow. The format is reported as "unnamed" .. One check and perhaps upgrade to 2a would do.
<mars> rockstar or abentley, perhaps you have some input? ^
<abentley> mars: use nosmart+lp in the URL.  Or look at the web page.
<mars> xrg_, ^ does that help?
<xrg_> abentley: the issue is that in our testing server, the "trunk-dev-addons3" is the only branch that takes too much time to fetch.
<xrg_> abentley: so wanted to perform any regular maintenance (you might think suitable)
<abentley> xrg_: There's no maintenance that we do.
<xrg_> stupid question: what is format 7 and what is 2a ?
<rockstar> xrg_, you could try `bzr upgrade lp:~openerp-dev/openobject-addons/trunk-dev-addons3`
<rockstar> xrg_, format 7 and 2a are the branch and repository formats.
<xrg_> rockstar: it is fairly large, will it perform well remotely?
<xrg_> rockstar: I tried 'bzr check' for a start, but cancelled agter 5hrs and 1.3GB
<rockstar> xrg_, if it's in format 7 and 2a, it doesn't need an upgrade.
<xrg_> rockstar: agreed. I'm trying a "pack" now.
<xrg_> brb
<xrg_> rockstar: is it possible, please, that you can try a "pack" locally? Isn't the remote one abusing bandwidth?
<xrg_> (still running my pack command, may abort if you say so )
<askhl> Hi.  When I try to copy a lucid PPA package to maverick in the same PPA while keeping the binaries, it says 'binaries conflicting with the existing ones'.  Isn't this a bit strange, and what should I do?
<maxb> xrg_: I was curious, and copied your branch locally. It packed down to just 12MB for me
<maxb> askhl: That is indeed odd. Smells potentially like a bug. What is the PPA and the sourcepackage name and version you are copying?
#launchpad 2010-10-01
<askhl> maxb, https://launchpad.net/~campos-dev/+archive/campos -- the source package is gpaw.  It may also be that I'm making some mistake
<maxb> askhl: So, you are trying to copy gpaw from lucid to maverick in that PPA, with "Copy existing binaries" and it is erroring? That's very wrong
<askhl> That is what I am trying
<maxb> I think that is definitely worth filing a bug against Launchpad about
<maxb> ooi, is there any interesting detail in the error message?
<askhl> Very strange indeed.  I just copied the other two packages' lucid versions into maverick without any errors
<askhl> Only 'The following source cannot be copied:', then 'gpaw 0.7.6974-1~ppa1 in lucid (binaries conflicting with the existing ones)'
<maxb> Hmm
<askhl> If I'm filing a bug report, what should that be reported against?  'Launchpad itself'?  That has only one bug report, which seems a bit suspicious
<askhl> Ah, I guess it's soyuz
<maxb> askhl: "Launchpad itself" gets used as a clearing house for incoming bugs, which usually then get reassigned to an appropriate subproject. But you can file it directly on soyuz too.
<askhl> maxb, I'll just do it in soyuz then
<askhl> Okay, bug report filed.  Thank you maxb
<askhl> (bug 652556)
<ubot5`> Launchpad bug 652556 in Soyuz "cannot copy PPA package to new series, due to non-existing "conflicting binaries" (affected: 1, heat: 6)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/652556
<maxb> I was trying to reproduce it, but am being thwarted by the publisher taking aaaaages
<askhl> I can imagine things are a bit slow these days what with the upcoming ubuntu release
<wgrant> askhl, maxb: It's because it was copied to karmic, which created an lpia build (because lpia was removed in lucid).
 * wgrant finds the bug.
<wgrant> askhl, maxb: Probably bug #527551. Try copying from Karmic instead.
<ubot5`> Launchpad bug 527551 in Soyuz "Intra-archive copying of a source with a failed build may leave that source uncopyable (affected: 1, heat: 0)" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/527551
<askhl> wgrant, thank you, that worked
<askhl> and I see you already updated the bug report
<kklimonda> wgrant: would that be possible to create an alias submit@b.l.n -> new@b.l.n ?
<wgrant> kklimonda: Not really my area. Bugs people ^^?
<persia> I'm getting repeated timeouts pressing the delete button from  https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-universe-sponsors/+delete : is this timing or LP being too slow for the cutoffs?
<wgrant> persia: Probably the vast number of bug subscriptions making it too slow.
<wgrant> lifeless has a branch which allows customisable timeouts, which could work around that.
<persia> "There are currently no open bugs."
<persia> But I suppose it has to deal with the old ones too :(
<wgrant> Right.
<persia> Is it worth leaving like this for performance targeting, or should a job be run against the API to move all of those to the new group that replaces this one?
<lifeless> persia: please file a bug
<lifeless> an API would timeout too
<persia> lifeless, We have jobs that batch-move subscriptions that get used for transitons anyway.
<persia> (and they don't timeout by doing the parcelling into acceptable-sized chunks outside LP)
<persia> lifeless, https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/652800
<ubot5`> Launchpad bug 652800 in Launchpad itself "Poor message for team content for old empty teams (affected: 1, heat: 6)" [Undecided,New]
<persia> No, that's not it.
 * persia tries to find the right LP bug
<persia> https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/652802
<ubot5`> Launchpad bug 652802 in Launchpad itself "Unable to delete the ~ubuntu-universe-sponsors team (affected: 1, heat: 6)" [Undecided,New]
 * persia apologises for unfortunate results of autocompletion
<lifeless> stub: is there likely to be high db load just now ?
<lifeless> 15002.0 1 SQL-launchpad-main-master UPDATE bugnotificationrecipientarchive SET person=6213 WHERE person=754157
<stub> lifeless: nothing unusual on the master
<lifeless> persia: got any other OOPS #'s ?
<maxb> losa or ~bazaar-experts member: I would like to donate ownership of https://code.launchpad.net/~vcs-imports/parrot/trunk-bzr-svn to ~parrot-dev as part of https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad-code/+question/127341, could you do the honours?
<mthaddon> maxb: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~parrot-dev/parrot/trunk-bzr-svn
<maxb> thanks :-)
<nigelb> any losa's around?
<nigelb> potential spammer, https://edge.launchpad.net/~andreas-voelklein
<nigelb> bug 638755
<ubot5`> Launchpad bug 638755 in xemacs21 (Ubuntu) ""apt-get install emacs tuareg-mode" pulls in xemacs21 (affected: 2, heat: 94)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/638755
<nigelb> At the end of the bug, there is a list of a few more of his exploits
<nigelb> questions opened: https://answers.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/127561
<mthaddon> nigelb: you want to contact the CHR, not a losa, about that - https://help.launchpad.net/HelpRotation
<nigelb> mthaddon: ahh, ok
<nigelb> mthaddon: *gasp*, times are in different time zones!
<nigelb> matsubara: ping ^^
<matsubara> hi nigelb
* matsubara changed the topic of #launchpad to: http://launchpad.net/ : all systems operational | Read https://help.launchpad.net/ for help | Help contact: matsubara |  Join https://launchpad.net/~launchpad-users | This channel is logged: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | Launchpad is open source: https://dev.launchpad.net/
<matsubara> thanks for reminding I'm the CHR for today :-)
<nigelb> heh
<nigelb> matsubara: can you take a look at https://answers.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/127561 ?
<nigelb> Also, that chr list could use some love to standardize tz ^-^
<matsubara> nigelb, all the times are in UTC ther and have a link to the people location, so not sure what you mean
<matsubara> nigelb, also it looks like Bhavani Shankar tried to educate the user about all the spam
<matsubara> nigelb, don't you want to wait a little bit more until Andreas has a chance to reply and then we can proceed on blocking the account if (s)he persists?
<nigelb> matsubara: sure, its your call :)
<nigelb> oh, right.  I should have "clicked" the time.  My bad.
<nigelb> Also, Bhavi got in touch with me since he wasn't sure what to do.
<matsubara> Nicke_, I think what Bhavi did was the right thing. First try to talk the person, then if the misbehaviour continues we can ban.
<matsubara> nigelb, ^
<nigelb> matsubara: ok, great :)
<nigelb> (sorry, bad connection)
<jonasfa> when i follow "Report a bug" on the Ubuntu project, i'm redirected to a Wiki page about reporting bugs :S
<deryck> jonasfa, is this by design at the request of the Ubuntu QA team.
<deryck> there's a lot of great info on that wiki page about how to file good bugs against Ubuntu, though. :)
<jonasfa> deryck: ty. i should have read that page :)
<deryck> indeed, it's helpful :-)
<jonasfa> when i run `ubuntu-bug` and choose "other problem", it sais i should specify a package :(
<jonasfa> but i don't know the package of the app i want to fill a bug
<jonasfa> actually, i think the package isn't even installed on my pc
<jonasfa> what should i do to fill a bug to a software wich i don't know it's package?
<deryck> jonasfa, what is it you want to file a bug about?
<jonasfa> deryck: found the package name.. ubiquity
<deryck> excellent
<cody-somerville> ugh. my hotel wifi is so bad I can't load a single page of Launchpad. :(
<nessita> good morning/afternoon! question: is there any way of listing the downloads for a given series? I need to list downloads for https://launchpad.net/ubuntu-sso-client/stable-1-0 so uscan will catch the latest package for that serie. Right now, uscan catches the latest release for trunk series
<matsubara> sinzui, can you help nessita ^?
<sinzui> nessita, no. The +downloads page is listed by series so they will be together
<sinzui> nessita, do you want users to download older versions? Do you maintain several forks of the code for backporting?
<nessita> sinzui: yes, we mantain trunk and several stables (one so far, the project is new). So, for maverick, I want to package only the stable-1-0 series releases, since trunk will be natty code
<sinzui> okay
<sinzui> Do you think https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-sso-client/stable-1-0/+downloads is what you want?
<sinzui> nessita, ^ and then I must ask, why do you want people to download tarballs? As I user, I think I want a package from an archive. As an engineer I want the code. I think external packagers are the only users who want to download a tarball
<nessita> sinzui: that url is what I want, yes. And regarding your question, as a user, I do want packages as well, but in order to build packages we need tarballs
<nessita> sinzui: and as a packager, I do want to download a tarball, ideally using helping tools like uscan
<sinzui> nessita, you do? why don't you provide package via a PPA?
<nessita> sinzui: I do provide package via PPA, but in order to build the package I need to download the tarball
<sinzui> nessita, if the series is linked to an ubuntu package, their connection could be obvious. We could show the latest release on the package page for each Ubuntu series
<sinzui> nessita, do you know about recipes?
<nessita> sinzui: not sure what that means :-)
<nessita> sinzui: nopes
<sinzui> If I were a packager for Ubuntu, I want to subscribe to the Distro source package or the series version. Those pages would send me an email when the linked series has a new release. The pages would also show me the new release.
<sinzui> nessita, a recipe is an way to build a package from code. you could have a recipe for the code that builds packages for each version
<sinzui> automatically
<sinzui> you drink coffee and take all the glory
<sinzui> nessita, https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-sso-client/stable-1-0 does not appear to be linked to an Ubuntu package
<sinzui> nessita, https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-sso-client/+packages shows me a maverick version, but I think you want to get all the version you maintain linked. Certainly lucid since it is LTS
<nessita> sinzui: hum, I didn't know about that...
<sinzui> nessita, this is the page I think a package would want to subscribe to. It could show the latest release and email you when a new release is made. but a recipe will do the work for you. (recipes will be in general release in a few weeks) https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/maverick/+source/ubuntu-sso-client
<sinzui> This page too might be the place for a subscription: https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-sso-client
<nessita> sinzui: thanks for al this info. I will investigate an read about it
<nessita> s/al/all
<SEJeff_work> My trivial patch to add launchpad support to openid-selector was committed: http://code.google.com/p/openid-selector/issues/detail?id=16
<SEJeff_work> sites like bitbucket.org use openid-selector
<nessita> sinzui: hello again. I re-read what you've said about linking my stable-1-0 series with a package and I'm not sure what you meant. I'm trying to bind stable-1-0 with the maverick package and I'm getting "The ubuntu-sso-client package in Maverick is already linked to another series."
<nessita> sinzui: that means that I should remove the linking between trunk and the maverick package? may the removal break something at release level?
<AbhiJit> hello
<AbhiJit> does the karma goes decreasing over time perioud is no contribution done?
<jml> yes.
<guest_> Hi. I have some questions about adding an SSH-key to launchpad. The username@host at the end of the public key, is that just metadata? Can I remove it or change it to something else?
<AbhiJit_> jml, ok
<mgedmin> guest_, it's a comment field
<matsubara> guest_, I believe you can.
<mgedmin> typically it contains username@hostname
<mgedmin> you must have something there or launchpad will reject your key
<guest_> mgedmin: I see. Also, if I add a key, I assume I can remove it later if I for instance get a new key or something and don't want to keep track of the old one?
<mgedmin> I also assume so
 * mgedmin <-- not a launchpad developer
<guest_> ok. Thanks everyone.
<rhpot1991> I merged my accounts in the wrong direction can anyone help me with this?
<sinzui> nessita, yes, you want to remove the link to trunk and instead link the package to the series that produces the version in Maverick. The goal is for Maverick to know when there are new versions of upstream, and for Maverick to know where to send patches to upstream
<nessita> sinzui: ok, thanks!
<henry_> hello
<rhpot1991> any LP admins: https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/127601
* You're now known as ubuntulog
<rhpot1991> sinzui: saw you responded to my question, if its quicker we can chat in here instead of comments in the question
<sinzui> hopefully
<rhpot1991> sinzui: I added some more info on there
<rhpot1991> I'd be happy if we can just get the good account back and I don't care what happens to the other
<sinzui> I cannot do a reenable. it requires db surgery
<sinzui> your email address moved to the other profile didn't it
<sinzui> rhpot1991, okay I think I see
<sinzui> you need to keep using the other link the the email to complete merging
<sinzui> rhpot1991, it may time out many times, but you are making progress
<rhpot1991> sinzui: ok, I'll keep trying
<sinzui> It took me 3 tries this morning to merge a team, and i know one user had to do it 25 times
<rhpot1991> can we salvage thigns once that is done?
<sinzui> When merge is done all your data will be moved. Then we can fix the name (which takes but a minute)
<rhpot1991> ok
<rhpot1991> good I'll keep trying and ping you when its good
<sinzui> I will be away for 30 minutes.
<rhpot1991> sinzui: merged now
<rhpot1991> whenever you get a chance, no rush here
<sinzui> rhpot1991, does this look better: https://edge.launchpad.net/~rhpot1991
<rhpot1991> sinzui: ppa and karma seem to be missing, other than that it looks good
<sinzui> rhpot1991, karma is not transferred :(. your first message implies you had a PPA. I
<sinzui> do not think merge support that since it implicitly has to delete the PPA
<rhpot1991> sinzui: no loss, I can re-push that
<rhpot1991> nothing can be done about karma?
<sinzui> Nothing I know of sorry.
<rhpot1991> thats too bad, I'd settle for a random bump or something (I know I broke 1000), but if you can't do anything then I'll live with it
<james_w> is publication not working?
<james_w> I have a binary package in a PPA that has been pending for two hours
<james_w> and what do you know? now that I ask it is published
<rhpot1991> sinzui: thanks for the help
<sinzui> My apologies for the broken service. We do intend to fix it in the next few months
<rhpot1991> sinzui: oddly it knows my karma history, just not the total: https://launchpad.net/~rhpot1991/+karma
<sinzui> rhpot1991, oh, then I think we need to wait for karma cache to be recalculated. That is about 12 hours from now
<rhpot1991> sinzui: oh that would be good, I'll just poke at it later
<rhpot1991> thanks again for the help
<tormod> I think I have seen my mugshot on my LP page, but not now, why is that?
#launchpad 2010-10-02
<mtaylor> hey ho - launchpad is rejecting packages from my ppa with the error: Unable to find source package drizzle/2010.09.1802-1.3~lucid01 in lucid
<wgrant> mtaylor: Is that in a build's upload log?
<mtaylor> wgrant: I got that in an email just now
<wgrant> mtaylor: From a build? or a source upload?
<mtaylor> I'm going to say a build ... hrm.
<wgrant> If it was a build, can you link me to it?
<mtaylor> wgrant: look like perhaps 2010.09.1802-1.3~lucid01 was doing something and 2010.09.1802-1.4~lucid01 got uploaded...
<mtaylor> lemme find a link
<wgrant> mtaylor: That would do it, yes.
<mtaylor> ok. the message was just a little disturbing
<LinuxJedi> timeouts whilst filing bugs :( "(Error ID: OOPS-1736F673)"
<ubot5> https://lp-oops.canonical.com/oops.py/?oopsid=1736F673
<bilalakhtar> I am also dacing similar problems
<bilalakhtar> *facing
<bilalakhtar> (Error ID: OOPS-1736ED371)
<ubot5> https://lp-oops.canonical.com/oops.py/?oopsid=1736ED371
<wgrant> bilalakhtar, LinuxJedi: Filing bugs with apport?
<wgrant> Against which package? linux?
<bilalakhtar> wgrant: I get this when I go to the ubuntu +bugs url
<bilalakhtar> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs
<bilalakhtar> wgrant: 6^
<bilalakhtar> *^^
<LinuxJedi> wgrant: no, launchpad website against the drizzle project.  Just started working again now though
<bilalakhtar> wgrant: Can you access the OOPS thing?
<bilalakhtar> wgrant: Working now for me as well!
<wgrant> bilalakhtar: No, unfortunately.
<wgrant> It does still seem a bit sluggish.
<bilalakhtar> wgrant: I think only members of ~launchpad can access
<LinuxJedi> would be nice if I didn't have to file bugs, with this beta release of drizzle people are find client side bugs faster than I can fix them ;)
<wgrant> bilalakhtar: It's somewhat wider than that.
<wgrant> Possibly anyone in ~canonical.
<sladen> spam on Launchpad, can somebody delete/block:  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/udev/+bug/653473/comments/2
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 653473 in udev (Ubuntu) "Sony vaio Laptops acpi-supports (brightness control doesnt work true) (dup-of: 627890)" [Undecided,New]
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 627890 in udev (Ubuntu) "My Laptop special buttons doesnt work (affected: 1, heat: 12)" [Undecided,Incomplete]
<nigelb> sladen: might help opening a question since its the weekend and there is no chr :)
 * sladen ponders and tries to work out how to format that as a question
<sladen> https://answers.launchpad.net/malone/+question/127676
<nigelb> sladen: heh, you ended up quoting me for the question :)
<seiflotfy> guys i need ur help
<seiflotfy> i accedentaly set the wrong person as a miantainer of a project
<seiflotfy> and now i cant change it back
<seiflotfy> i just created the launchpad project http://launchpad.net/trophylicious
 * sladen suspects the answer will be "file a +question"...
<nigelb> seiflotfy: being a weekend, I don't think there are folks around.  You'd bnefit from asking a question :)
<nigelb> sladen: heh
 * nigelb highlights that he doesn't work on LP at all, but just likes to help :)
<mtaylor> I'm getting errors in a PPA about it being full - but when I try to go delete superseeded packages, they don't show up as eligible for deletion
<LinuxJedi> mtaylor: :(
<mtaylor> LinuxJedi: :) ... I have filed a question
<LinuxJedi> cool :)
<shadeslayer> mtaylor: maybe wait for a few mins for lp to actually delete the packages?
<mtaylor> shadeslayer: it never gave me the option to mark them for deletion
<shadeslayer> oic ..
<rajee> hai
<rajee> im unable to add PPA to my system
<rajee> receiving error as 'Error: can't find signing_key_fingerprint'
<rajee> need help
<mtaylor> is there any way to submit new bugs via email with launchpad?
<geser> mtaylor: yes, see the LP page about the email interface
<geser> mtaylor: https://help.launchpad.net/Bugs/EmailInterface
<mtaylor> geser: heh. perhaps I should look at docs more often than just bugging folks in here :) thanks!
<paissad_> guys, would like to upload my package to https://launchpad.net/~paissad/+archive/pms-linux
<paissad_> i did ' dput ppa:paissad/ppa *.changes'
<paissad_> here is the logfile after dput -> http://pastebin.com/Q3jwVMjK
<paissad_> but i receive a mail noticing a failure
<paissad> Rejected:
<paissad> Launchpad failed to process the upload path '~paissad/ppa/ubuntu':
<paissad> Could not find a PPA named 'ppa' for 'paissad'.
<kklimonda> paissad: it should be dput ppa:paissad/pms-linux *.changes
<paissad_> ok, thanks
<paissad> [PPA paissad-pms-linux] [ubuntu/lucid] pms-linux	1.20.409+svn411-0ubuntu1 (Accepted)
<paissad> thanks !
<paissad> must i do the upload for maverick too ? ...
<paissad> i think about changing the debian/changelog file & replace lucid by maverick & the re-run dput ...
#launchpad 2010-10-03
<jonrafkind> is it possible to delete source packages uploaded to launchpad in my ppa?
<jonrafkind> i uploaded a package that failed, so i rebuilt the package and tried to reupload it but I got a rejection message because I cant upload the same file twice
<wgrant> jonrafkind: You can delete them, but it won't let you upload the same version again. That wouldn't make sense.
<wgrant> jonrafkind: You need to increment the version.
<jonrafkind> so i need to update all the version numbers in control/changelog as well?
<wgrant> jonrafkind: It should only be in the changelog.
<wgrant> If you have the version elsewhere, you probably have another problem.
<jonrafkind> oh ok, what is this: Standards-Version:
<jonrafkind> i wasnt sure what it was, i just copied it into my file
<wgrant> That specifies the version of Debian Policy with which your package complies. It's not your package's version.
<jonrafkind> ok, can I safely delete it?
<wgrant> jonrafkind: No.
<jonrafkind> what should I set it to?
<wgrant> jonrafkind: You should set it properly, though.
<wgrant> Normally the latest version of Debian Policy, if your package complies with it.
<jonrafkind> which is..?
<jonrafkind> i dont think I use 'debian policy', i dont even know what that is
<jonrafkind> oh sorry you said 'complies' not 'compiles', haha
<wgrant> http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ -- the latest version is 3.9.1.0.
<jonrafkind> so if I leave out this field (Standards-Version) will I get a rejection email from launchpad?
<wgrant> jonrafkind: No, but you should always have it.
<jonrafkind> i dont want to lie and say i comply with something when I have no idea if I comply with it
<wgrant> Your package should comply with some version of policy.
<jonrafkind> im making a package for my ppa
<jonrafkind> i dont really care at this point if i comply with some debian policy
<wgrant> If you don't comply then you are likely to break people's systems.
<wgrant> It's not that hard to check compliance.
<jonrafkind> i dont comply because of copyright issues
<jonrafkind> (probably)
<wgrant> What do you mean?
<jonrafkind> i have a game, i have copyrighted art in it
<jonrafkind> that i dont have the copyrights to
<wgrant> The PPA Terms of Service forbid you from uploading that.
<wgrant> It's not distributable.
<jonrafkind> alright fine, ill just upload the source then
<wgrant> It's not an "alright fine" sort of thing. It's a "that's not legal and could get people in lots of trouble" thing.
<jonrafkind> fine alright
<mrooney1> hello! I was just wondering for PPAs if there is a way to say that not all members of a team can upload, for example only administrators?
<exarkun> Why can't I branch from launchpad faster than about 80kB/sec?
<ub3rst4r> hi does anyone if there is a way to find out the overall total of downloads for ur project?
<micahg> ub3rst4r: bug 431011
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 431011 in Launchpad Foundations "offer per-project statistics (affected: 4, heat: 7)" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/431011
<ub3rst4r> shouldnt that be a blueprint?
<ub3rst4r> any idea when this is getting implemented?
<micahg> ub3rst4r: when it's ready to be worked on it might be added to one
<lifeless> we don't really use blueprints
<lifeless> even if we did, we wouldn't do/not do something just because it was/wasn't a blueprint.
<wgrant> mrooney1: At the moment you can add uploaders in addition to the owner, but you can't remove the owning team's privileges.
<ub3rst4r> kthx
<lifeless> wgrant: theres another 50 or so revs coming across to prod on monday,
<lifeless> wgrant: up through 11609
<wgrant> lifeless: We're 10 days behind on QA?
<lifeless> yes
<wgrant> (I have a regression fix branch that will probably need CPing soon)
<lifeless> 11610 isn't qa'd.
<wgrant> Ah.
<lifeless> -> airport.
<mrooney1> wgrant: ah okay, thanks. I have an open users team for my app and thought that team was a good place for a PPA, until someone pointed out that anyone can upload then and it isn't very secure
<mrooney1> is there a good way to move a PPA? I guess if I delete it apt will complain and hopefully the people using it will visit the team page and see a notice I could put up
<wgrant> mrooney1: You can't move it, no.
<wgrant> Anyone using that PPA probably can't trust their system any more, though.
<mrooney1> well, I can see that no one has uploaded anything but me
<wgrant> Ah, good.
<mrooney1> it was just someone pointing it out
<mrooney1> I wonder if it would be worth a warning in LP though, I had not at all put it together than an open team + PPA = anyone can upload, until it was pointed out
<wgrant> I think there's a bug for that.
<mrooney1> ah ok
<paissad> i uploaded a package for lucid, i copied the binaries (from my launchpad account) from Lucid to Maverick ... but i just would like to know if it's still necessary to copy binaries for Karmic or even Jaunty ?
<paissad> i think that most people upgraded their version of release .. no ?
<wgrant> paissad: Nothing is "necessary" -- do what you want. If you have users on Jaunty or Karmic, copy to them too.
<wgrant> But most people should be running Lucid or later, so I wouldn't bother.
<paissad> in any case, they just can pick from Lucid or Maverick, that would work too
<shadeslayer> hi, my bug watch is failing to sync bug statuses and comments, OOPS-1731CCW9145 and OOPS-1734CCW440
<ubot5> https://lp-oops.canonical.com/oops.py/?oopsid=1731CCW9145
<ubot5> https://lp-oops.canonical.com/oops.py/?oopsid=1734CCW440
<shadeslayer> wrt bug 647332
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 647332 in rekonq (Ubuntu) "[maverick] Rekonq crashes without network connection. (affected: 2, heat: 441)" [Low,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/647332
<serfus> is launchpad itself translatable?
<james_w> serfus: no, it's not
<serfus> james_w, hum, that's a shame... thanks anyway :)
#launchpad 2011-09-26
<chrissbx> Hi. I've recently imported a git repo to launchpad, using the official import functionality. I choose the Git master branch and called it trunk locally.
<chrissbx> Now I've got a second branch in the Git repo, and would like to import that, too. But somehow I just can't find that import functionality in the web UI anymore.
<wgrant> chrissbx: Launchpad only gained support for importing non-master git branches a couple of weeks ago, and the UI isn't exactly obvious yet. If you go to the Code index for your project, you should see an 'Import a branch' link on the right.
<wgrant> chrissbx: Until we have a special UI for this, you can import a non-master branch by adding ',branch=somebranchname' to the end of the git URL.
<chrissbx> Hm, I can't find that "import a branch" link anywhere. This is the project that's already being imported. On code.launchpad.net/~me/myproject/trunk it shows me stats on the import.
<wgrant> chrissbx: code.launchpad.net/myproject
<wgrant> code.launchpad.net/~me/myproject/trunk is the page for that particular branch, not the project as a whole.
<chrissbx> Hm, problem is that I'm having a fork; https://launchpad.net/redshift is showing all the forks, but isn't "my page" afaict, anyway there's no "import" link.
<wgrant> chrissbx: Click the "Code" tab at the top.
<chrissbx> Ah, there.
<wgrant> chrissbx: Imports from GitHub work better over git:// than https://. I've changed the URL, and it has now imported successfully.
<chrissbx> Ah, thanks.
* deryck changed the topic of #launchpad to: https://launchpad.net/ | Help contact: deryck | Launchpad is an open source project: https://dev.launchpad.net/ | This channel is logged: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | User Guide: https://help.launchpad.net/ | Support: https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad
<wzssyqa> when dput to ppa Changes file must be signed with a valid GPG signature: Verification failed 3 times: ['General error', 'General error', 'General error'] : Permission denied.
<wzssyqa> why?
<bigjools> wzssyqa: known problem, it will be ok, there's a bug at the server end
<wzssyqa> bigjools: many thanks
<bigjools> wzssyqa: are you uploading to ppa.launchpad.net?
<wzssyqa> bigjools: yes
<bigjools> ok thanks
<geser> bigjools: is there a bug for this I can point people at?
<bigjools> yes, one sec
<bigjools> bug 798957
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 798957 in Launchpad itself "Uploads are seemingly (but not actually) rejected" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/798957
* abentley changed the topic of #launchpad to: https://launchpad.net/ | Help contact: abentley | Launchpad is an open source project: https://dev.launchpad.net/ | This channel is logged: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | User Guide: https://help.launchpad.net/ | Support: https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad
<abentley> deryck[lunch]: I relieve you.
<ahasenack> timeis somebody working on that bug? It also broke all our automated pppa uploads
<ahasenack> s/^time//
<bigjools> ahasenack: it can't have broken anything, it doesn't affect the upload
<ahasenack> bigjools: I was told our jenkins upload caught the error and stopped
<ahasenack> bigjools: the job is "red", so dput exits with non-zero
<ahasenack> easy enough to workaround for a while, of course (|| /bin/true)
<bigjools> ahasenack: ignore "general error"  I think
<Darxus> https://code.launchpad.net/~vcs-imports/spamassassin/trunk "The import has been suspended because it failed 5 or more times in succession." - the error is "ValueError: too many values to unpack", from http://launchpadlibrarian.net/81067671/vcs-imports-spamassassin-trunk.log
<Darxus> Looks like a launchpad bug?
<Darxus> This failed for 5 days before I was notified, is there a way I can get notified if automated imports have failed for something more like 24 hours?
<Darxus> Can I be emailed every time an import for lp:spamassassin fails?
<deryck> thanks, abentley
<abentley> deryck: Could you please run https://pastebin.canonical.com/53397/ on staging?
<deryck> abentley, sure.
<deryck> abentley, https://pastebin.canonical.com/53399/
<abentley> deryck: Could you run this variation please? https://pastebin.canonical.com/53401/
<deryck> abentley, https://pastebin.canonical.com/53402/
<abentley> deryck: That is the number of branches in loom format that need an upgrade.  AFAICT, loom doesn't natively support upgrades.
<dobey> sinzui: ping
<sinzui> hi dobey
<dobey> sinzui: hey. bit of a technical question about having a "distribution" added in launchpad; what would the consequences be of having say "Microsoft Windows" being a "distribution" in launchpad be?
<sinzui> dobey, lots of screwups along the lines of gentoo and redhat because LP only knows Debian package names
<benji> that and the universe would explode from an irony overload
<dobey> sinzui: is there any better way to have an OS in LP that isn't debian? so we can separate "windows" bugs from all our ubuntu/ppa/upstream bugs?
<sinzui> dobey, no, we do not support it. The gentoo and redhat registered distros are pretty crippled
<niemeyer> Hey folks
<niemeyer> Can someone confirm that this regexp is correct for LP usernames:
<niemeyer> "[a-z0-9][a-zA-Z0-9+.-]+"
<Darxus> niemeyer: If that's a perl regex you need to escape the .
<dobey> sinzui: crippled is fine. i just want to assign windows bugs to windows in a somewhat sane way. tags do not seem the sane way to me
<sinzui> dobey, setting aside that Lp does not know how to handle this. Consider the case of the gimp master branch that clearly supports linux and windows. Lp will honour that branch as a source package branch for a "windows-distro" but it could never be built. the a bug in the code can obviously be in windows and linux
<dobey> would be really great if a bug had a list of platforms it affected, like bugzilla does
<dobey> to make distinction between platform and distribution
<sinzui> dobey, No it would not
<sinzui> we allowed users to report bugs in any distro, that lead to user thinking they were actually reporting bugs to users who could fix them
<sinzui> We do not permit users to report bug against distros that do not officially use Lp
<dobey> i do not mean as a distro
<sinzui> right, as a record of affected somethings
<dobey> i mean "this is affects only 'linux amd64'" for example
<dobey> hrmm
<tumbleweed> are tags not sufficient for that?
<sinzui> dobey, Lp will require the package to be official as well as the distribution officially uses Lp to track bugs
<niemeyer> Darxus: No, that wasn't the question..
<niemeyer> Darxus: The question was whether this matches the implementation of Launchpad
<niemeyer> Darxus: The regex is actually correct for perl/python/etc
<dobey> tumbleweed: tags suck as a way for doing that; at least in the case of windows.
<niemeyer> Darxus: dot doesn't have to be escaped within a char set
<Darxus> Huh.
<dobey> sinzui: i suppose we could create an "Ubuntu One Windows" distribution, and just use it for our stuff?
<sinzui> dobey, That will work if you set it to use Lp bugs and you set the official package branches
<sinzui> dobey, distro's use an API script to set the branch of the official package
<dobey> sinzui: ok, thanks.
* abentley changed the topic of #launchpad to: https://launchpad.net/ | Help contact: - | Launchpad is an open source project: https://dev.launchpad.net/ | This channel is logged: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | User Guide: https://help.launchpad.net/ | Support: https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad
<Sweetshark> so why does launch pad not let me make 807759 an duplicate of 745836? and why does it not tell me what it doesnt like about it?
<wgrant> Sweetshark: Bug #745836 doesn't exist, or is private.
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 745836 in ecryptfs-utils (Ubuntu Oneiric) "encrypted swap corrupts application stack/heap [was: soffice.bin SIGSEGV cppu::throwException()]" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/745836
<wgrant> Ah.
<wgrant> Or I can't type.
<wgrant> Sweetshark: 807759 has duplicates, some of which you possibly can't see, so you can't change their duplicate marking.
<Sweetshark> wgrant: ok -- they are dupes of 745836.
<Sweetshark> Just trust me ;D
<wgrant> I think I have access to all of them...
<wgrant> Let me try.
#launchpad 2011-09-27
<Laibsch> I've heard rumours that work on git-support in launchpad is on-going and official support imminent.  Is there some truth to this?
<poolie> hi Laibsch, we're looking at adding git format support, beyond just imports
<poolie> i wouldn't call it iminent
<poolie> i'm interested to hear how people would use it
<Laibsch> are you involved in that work?  what kind of time frame would you expect, a month (I guess not), a year, a decade?
<poolie> not a month and not a decade :)
<Laibsch> OK, I will come banging down your door in a year
<Laibsch> and you better have something to show ;-)
<poolie> uh, that may not work so well
<poolie> anyhow, do you use Launchpad now?
<poolie> or, you'd like to use it but you need git support?
<Laibsch> I am involved in bug triage, Debian packaging, backporting patches to LTS and a little bit of upstream work.  I can see huge benefits for myself in the integration of git into that mix.
<Laibsch> I have been using LP for years
<poolie> how specifically would you use it?
<poolie> you have git branches elsewhere you'd like to host on lp instead?
<Laibsch> I don't absolutely need git, but I certainly loathe bzr or svn.  Having git work across the complete "value chain" would streamline my work.
<Laibsch> I have almost all my packages for Debian on git.debian.org
<Laibsch> currently, git is used only for the packaging, upstream is imported via git-import-orig
<Laibsch> but I can see myself working on both upstream and the packaging in git branches of the same repo
<poolie> why 'loath bzr'?
<Laibsch> maybe I don't have enough exposure
<Laibsch> it just slows me down tremendously
<poolie> as far as actual speed, or workflow?
<Laibsch> I cannot authoritatively tell you if bzr is lacking something technically that is supported in git
<Laibsch> but the thing is simple
<Laibsch> when the main project I was involved with was using monotone, I was good in monotone
<Laibsch> everybody and their uncle is using git these days (except LP/Canonical :-p)
<Laibsch> why should I as a user be fluent in more than one VCS?
<Laibsch> especially if git is working so well?
<poolie> so it slows you down because it's not the same as what you're used to using elsewhere?
<poolie> ok
<poolie> so that we can understand how the features  ought to work together it's useful to understand the actual stories where people would use this
<poolie> so
<poolie> for instance
<poolie> would just supporting git clients on new branches be enough?
<poolie> or are there particular branches already on lp (for upstreams, or for packaging?) that you'd like to access from git
<Laibsch> you mean read-only?
<poolie> i'm just asking for some example stories of how you'd use it
<Laibsch> well, one thing I really like in LP but that I don't use at all because it's in bzr is the ability of everybody to create a branch and propose it for merging in the project or Ubuntu
<Laibsch> how would I use it?  to reduce the fractured  data base (not database) between upstream-Debian-Ubuntu and bug tracking/user contributions/backpush of patches
<Laibsch> that kind of thing
<Laibsch> what LP does, really ;-)
<Laibsch> s/fractured/fragmented/
<Laibsch> kind of like SAP in the business world "enter once, use everywhere" ;-)
<Laibsch> let's say upstream was available in an LP git repo and made a patch for a bug in oneiric, I could then very easily take the commit and do "git checkout lucid;git cherry-pick $blah;git dch;git-pbuildpackage" and have a new lucid package quickly.  I can then push back my local lucid branch with $blah for release to lucid-proposed
<poolie> right
<poolie> so the main problem with package merge proposals at the moment for you is that you have to use a different client tool to create them and it's not worth it?
<Laibsch> yes
<Laibsch> do you know any upstream project that uses bzr?
<Laibsch> I'm sure there are some
<Laibsch> but none that I'm regularly involved with :-p
<poolie> what is the breakdown across projects that you work on?
<Laibsch> technically, cherry-pick and rebase and these things work great in git.  I can't comment how well bzr does these things.
<poolie> well, dude, i'm trying to improve the tools for ubuntu developers for you so perhaps you can not stick your tongue out at me
<Laibsch> My apologies, it's not meant offensively, more like a "hehehe"
<poolie> rebase works pretty well (in the rewrite plugin) but it is not used so commonly
<Laibsch> I'm sorry if the sign was misunderstood
<poolie> np
<Laibsch> I understand you're being very helpful
<poolie> anyhow, it seems like the thing here is that you don't want git support just for selected project
<poolie> like on sf or google code
<poolie> but to be able to use it to interact with all ubuntu branches
<poolie> so behind that feature name of 'git support'
<Laibsch> "ubuntu branches" = ubuntu releases?
<Laibsch> or LP modules?
<poolie> there are a bunch of possibilities and we're just trying to understand them
<Laibsch> yes, very good
<poolie> for instance lp:ubuntu/oneiric/grub2 is a bzr branch of the ubuntu source for grub2
<poolie> off which you could make new branches and file merge proposals
<Laibsch> yes
<poolie> ok
<poolie> we have this pattern in lp specs of saying "As a ... I want to ... so that I can ..."
<Laibsch> When the data is there I will also often use "git log" and "git diff" to analyze where changes/bugs/possible solutions are coming from historically
<poolie> (for instance in dev.launchpad.net/LEP/)
<Laibsch> you are talking about "use cases2?
<poolie> can you suggest any more of those around this?
<poolie> yes, it's a formula for use cases
<Laibsch> you're asking me to write up LEP/GitSupportInLP?
<Laibsch> I can add to one if there is a draft
<poolie> haha
<poolie> well
<Laibsch> https://dev.launchpad.net/Wishes/Git is what I found
<poolie> i was asking for some content to put onto it
<Laibsch> Ok
<poolie> i am trying to get something more specific than the people quoted on that page
<Laibsch> But the page isn't there, yet, right?
<poolie> we could easily, with the best intentions, implement something that counts as 'git support' but does not work well
<Laibsch> yes, git support could be many different things
<Laibsch> LP could reasonably claim to support git even today
<poolie> indeed
<poolie> so i'm trying to work out how to draw out more information
<poolie> we need 6-10 good use cases, not lots of upvotes on the main headline
<Laibsch> how about this
<Laibsch> you put up a page, I'll write a few things up
<Laibsch> and improve and fine-tune my thoughts a bit over time
<Laibsch> I don't think I can sit down and have it all ready at once
<Laibsch> FWIW, Wishes/Git does not seem to be editable even after I log in
<poolie> ok i'll do that
<Laibsch> cool
<Laibsch> thank you for your time
<Laibsch> you got my LP nick?
<poolie> yes
<poolie> can anyone create a p3a or does it need special permission?
<StevenK> It needs special permission
<mrevell> hey huwshimi
<huwshimi> mrevell: Hey
<ApOgEE> hi
<czajkowski> mrevell: aloha did https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/816105 die a pain of death ?
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 816105 in Launchpad itself "UI for subscribing to a bug is confusing" [High,Triaged]
<mrevell> czajkowski, No, it just kinda went into a coma for a while. It's back on my list of things to do :) Thanks for the prompt.
<czajkowski> mrevell: no worries I'm here to prod and poke you know me :)
<mrevell> Heh, cheers :)
<czajkowski> next up gmb hello my dear , any sweet love of god https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/789171 you want to make all our lives easier eh :D
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 789171 in Launchpad itself "sending mail to LP - copy to sender also" [Low,Triaged]
<czajkowski> mrevell: hey I can log one annoying bug a cycle for you guys to get confused over as much as I am it'll be worth it
<mrevell> heh, we don't have a lack of bug reports, that's for sure. I'm always happy to hear which ones are particularly painful, though.
<czajkowski> those 2 :D
<czajkowski> do you know how often I've to contact loco team members with no public email address *mutters*
* adeuring changed the topic of #launchpad to:  https://launchpad.net/ | Help contact: adeuring | Launchpad is an open source project: https://dev.launchpad.net/ | This channel is logged: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | User Guide: https://help.launchpad.net/ | Support: https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad
<rbasak> Got an interesting problem with the watch file in lp:~ubuntu-server-dev/nova/diablo. It specifies http://launchpad.net/nova/+download, but that page is paginated so it now needs http://launchpad.net/nova/+download?start=10.
<rbasak> I worked around it for now by changing the watch file manually.
<rbasak> Is there a standard answer for this? Something like http://launchpad.net/nova/+download?show=all perhaps?
* deryck changed the topic of #launchpad to:  https://launchpad.net/ | Help contact: deryck | Launchpad is an open source project: https://dev.launchpad.net/ | This channel is logged: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | User Guide: https://help.launchpad.net/ | Support: https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad
<deryck> Hi, adeuring.  I'll take IRC now.
<adeuring> morning, deryck, thanks!
<Laney> is rosetta known to be more strict than msgfmt?
<Laney> I got an email about an error importing http://launchpadlibrarian.net/81154657/es.po - it seems like it has weird line endings on the header lines
<Laney> but msgfmt -c doesn't complain about them
<deryck> danilos or jtv -- can one of you help answer Laney?
<jtv> I'm here.  Laney: hang on, I'll look.
<Laney> Line 10: Invalid content: u', 2011.'
<jtv> There can be small differences between what Launchpad's importer says and what msgfmt -c says, yes; we basically implemented our own.
<jtv> (Also, different gettext versions etc. can also cause different views).
<Laney> I think it's actually complaining about line 9
<Laney> vim shows me a ^M there
<jtv> Ah yes.  In gedit it comes up as a clear mistake.
<Laney> but that's in a comment; should it break your parser?
<jtv> ^M is arguably a newline.  :)
<jtv> If it's a newline, then the extra ", 2011" is not in a comment.
<Laney> aha, that's how you're getting it
<jtv> Yup.  And it also explains the confusing line number: disagreement about where the lines end.
<jtv> In this case it's clearly a mistake at any rate: 2011 is in there twice.
<Laney> yes, it's a problem for sure, i just think that it shouldn't be a parse error
<jtv> It's a relatively hard problem: sometimes these are from editing on different platforms (a Mac user might argue that their newlines should be accepted as newlines, for instance, even if it's not strictly according to GNU standards) and sometimes IIRC they're \r carriage returns that haven't been escaped.
<smoser> I keep hitting OOPS-2096DQ61
<ubot5> https://lp-oops.canonical.com/oops.py/?oopsid=2096DQ61
<rbasak> <rbasak> Got an interesting problem with the watch file in lp:~ubuntu-server-dev/nova/diablo. It specifies http://launchpad.net/nova/+download, but that page is paginated so it now needs http://launchpad.net/nova/+download?start=10.
<rbasak> <rbasak> I worked around it for now by changing the watch file manually.
<rbasak> <rbasak> Is there a standard answer for this? Something like http://launchpad.net/nova/+download?show=all perhaps?
<deryck> smoser, you're experiencing bug 816617
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 816617 in Launchpad itself "UnknownRecipientError raised sending mail notification to bug subscriber" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/816617
<deryck> rbasak, I don't believe we have a way to do that for batches.  adeuring, do you know?  Can we force a BatchNavigator view to show all results via a url somehow?
<rbasak> deryck, adeuring: for doing debian/watch files, it just needs to be a list of hyperlinks or something like that. Like an Apache directory listing.
<adeuring> rbasak, deryck: We have somewhere a hard limit for the batch size, and some views override always changes of the batch size.
<deryck> right.  but nothing to just say "show me all results" and by pass the batch.
<adeuring> rbasak, deryck: on this page, https://launchpad.net/nova/+download?batch=50 would work tough
<adeuring> ...though
<rbasak> yeah, until it goes >50 :-)
<adeuring> but we woudl again have more than one page, should the number of links become larger than 300 or so
<hsn> is there wiki available for projects?
<hsn> or something what can be used for presenting online documentation
<smoser> deryck, so i am just simply unable to make a change to bug  845788 because of bug 816617?
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 845788 in glance (Ubuntu) "update_image in glance.client doesn't add content-length so the swift backend can't chunk" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/845788
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 816617 in Launchpad itself "UnknownRecipientError raised sending mail notification to bug subscriber" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/816617
<smoser> is there a work around ?
<deryck> hmmm, I don't knowâ¦. let me see.
<deryck> smoser, what change are you trying to make?
<smoser> mark ubuntu task as 'Triaged' or 'In progress' and 'High' and assign to me. target to ubuntu 11.10
<smoser> and then i also need to tag it with server-o-nrs
<deryck> smoser, are you trying everything at once, via the hidden form?  or trying each thing individually with the ajax widgets?
<smoser> i guess all at once
<deryck> smoser, trying using the individual widgets, i.e. clicking the edit icon next to "new" in the bug task table.
<smoser> deryck, seems to have worked.
<smoser> thank you.
<smoser> deryck, is oops OOPS-2096D81 same as other ?
<ubot5> https://lp-oops.canonical.com/oops.py/?oopsid=2096D81
<smoser> i was doing the same on a different bug
<deryck> smoser, I'll have to wait for the OOPS to sync before I can see for sure.
<deryck> smoser, yes, that is the same error as before.
<smoser> thanks deryck
<nemo> So, we use the oh-so-horrible Websense at work, and it loves randomly blocking .deb packages
* abentley changed the topic of #launchpad to:  https://launchpad.net/ | Help contact: abentley | Launchpad is an open source project: https://dev.launchpad.net/ | This channel is logged: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | User Guide: https://help.launchpad.net/ | Support: https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad
<abentley> deryck: I relieve you.
<deryck> abentley, I feel relieved.  :)  thanks!
<nemo> aaanyway. it'd be nice if launchpad.net supported https or ftp for PPAs.  looks like launchpad.net does have https, but trying to point a ppa at it yields a 404
<tumbleweed> you can upload to PPAs by ftp. In fact, don't think I've ever used sftp for uploading
<nemo> it's more wanting to have ftp:// in /etc/apt/sources.list.d :)
<nemo> for some reason stupid websense does not block ftp
<nemo> https would be even better of course
<nemo> tumbleweed: you wouldn't believe the nonsense I had to go through to get *1* ubuntu main mirror whitelisted  picked mirror.anl.gov 'cause it had gov in the name and sounds all official-like
<nemo> that is no good unfortunately for the partner archive or the ppas
<nemo> I still have to proxy those by hand
<tumbleweed> ah, yeah I also live behind a horrible firewall at university
<nemo> tumbleweed: the idiotic thing is how random the blockage is
<nemo> it appears they recognise .deb as a zip, unpack it, and trigger some stupid windows virus pattern matching on like 1 in 5 files
<tumbleweed> there is https for comercial ppas, but not regular ones. I assume because of the load...
<CasW> Is this the right place for launchpadlib questions?
<tumbleweed> yes, but I'm about to run off
<CasW> Good, I want to register a blueprint, or actually, I want to make an IRC bot able to register blueprints; is this possible?
<CasW> I'm sorry, I have to go and have dinner.
<flacoste> CasW: unfortunately, the method to create blueprint isn't exported over the API yet
<flacoste> CasW: so it's not possible at the moment, it's relatively easy to add though
<CasW> I'm not really back, just for a moment, but that's a pity...
<CasW> But you said it's relatively easy?
<CasW> Now, I'm really back.
<CasW> flacoste: You said there was an easy way to register blueprints with code?
<CasW> In a program?
<chrisccoulson> would someone mind killing all of the builds in here? https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mozilla-daily/+archive/firefox-aurora/+packages
<chrisccoulson> i uploaded those by accident, and they're all going to fail anyway
<chrisccoulson> but they're all going to fail near the end of the build ;)
<chrisccoulson> actually, never mind, the builds are all failing really early on, thankfully
<dobey> CasW: he was saying it shouldn't be too hard for the necessary bits to be added to the server code, to allow you to do that
<CasW> Oh, I was thinking about maybe cURL, that kind of stuff
<dobey> though having an irc bot register blueprints doesn't seem like a great idea
<CasW> Why not?
<CasW> Safety, you think?
<dobey> spam
<CasW> Yeah, so "safety", well, off course, I'm going to make it safe
<dobey> you want to do it to register blueprints for your own project, or for UDS, or for any project?
<CasW> My own project, OpenTeacher
<CasW> We're lazy and we don't want to browse to launchpad ourselves ;)
<CasW> But I'm going to play the piano, now, I'll be back in about half an hour
<CasW> I'm back
<flacoste> CasW: i meant it would be relatively easy to expose the ability to register a blueprint over the api, so that you can do it using a launchpadlib script
<flacoste> there is no way to create blueprint besides the web ui  otherwise
<CasW> Alright, well, thanks anyway!
* abentley changed the topic of #launchpad to:  https://launchpad.net/ | Help contact: - | Launchpad is an open source project: https://dev.launchpad.net/ | This channel is logged: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | User Guide: https://help.launchpad.net/ | Support: https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad
<mdeslaur> So...if I have a milestone called "0.1", launchpad won't let me create a milestone called "0.10"
<mdeslaur> any way around this? I'm not ready for 1.0 yet :)
<kiko> really?
<kiko> it's not doing a simple string compare?!
<mdeslaur> kiko: http://imgpaste.com/SVX3.png
<mwhudson> someone filed a bug about that the other day
<mwhudson> https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/859222
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 581748 in Launchpad itself "duplicate for #859222 10.10 milestone name corrupted in JS: 10.1" [Low,Triaged]
<mwhudson> mdeslaur: there is a workaround
<sladen> how do I get a PPA to use dependencies currently in Universe?  I've tried the  Section: universe/...
<mdeslaur> mwhudson: ah! cool, thanks for the bug and the workaround
<mwhudson> sladen: i think its a clicky clickly option for the ppa
<micahg> huh? I thought the default was to use everything
<mwhudson> yeah, me too actually
<mwhudson> the other option "Use the same components used for each source in the Ubuntu primary archive." does not leave me understanding what it will do :)
<sladen> ah ha.  /+edit-dependencies  ta
<micahg> mwhudson: well, that will build like it's in the archive with the same components, (main = main, universe = main + universe)
<mwhudson> ah ok
<sladen> "Default primary dependencies restored."  possibly when/if the default was changed; those already set weren't updated
<wgrant> sladen: The default wasn't changed.
<wgrant> sladen: Building against multiverse has been the default since late 2007, well before those options existed at all.
#launchpad 2011-09-28
<ScottSanbar> Please see the following forum post to see if you can help me:  http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=11292304#post11292304
<maxb> Making people work to see if they can help you tends to result in them not helping - a far more effective way to ask for help is to give a one-line summary of your issue directly on IRC
* adeuring changed the topic of #launchpad to:  https://launchpad.net/ | Help contact: adeuring | Launchpad is an open source project: https://dev.launchpad.net/ | This channel is logged: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | User Guide: https://help.launchpad.net/ | Support: https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad
<deryck> oh, adeuring, I should have been irc up to now and missed it due to calls.  sorry. :(
<adeuring> deryck: no problem :)
<deryck> it's been quiet at least.
<deryck> abentley, is due up in 5.  I can do some time later after him to make up for it. :)
* abentley changed the topic of #launchpad to:  https://launchpad.net/ | Help contact: abentley | Launchpad is an open source project: https://dev.launchpad.net/ | This channel is logged: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | User Guide: https://help.launchpad.net/ | Support: https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad
<abentley> adeuring: I relieve you.
<adeuring> abentley: thanks
<hyper_ch> where in launchpad can you start filing a new bug?
<hyper_ch> also, when logged into my account, it doesn't show all bugs I've commented on either
<charlie-tca> hyper_ch: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ReportingBugs#Filing_bugs_at_Launchpad.net explains it nicely
<hyper_ch> charlie-tca: been there, clicked on the link, nothing worked
<hyper_ch> charlie-tca: but then, tell me where on the launchpad site I can start filing a new bug
<hyper_ch> charlie-tca: it shouldn't be hard to find, right?
<charlie-tca> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+filebug/?no-redirect doesn't open to "Report a bug" for you?
<hyper_ch> charlie-tca: it does now but the link from the ubuntu wiki before didn't
<charlie-tca> Oh, okay
<hyper_ch> charlie-tca: can you tell me, fromt he launchpad main site or your account page, how do you find a link to that one?
<charlie-tca> sometimes it gets ornery
<charlie-tca> I linked it from the first url I gave you
<charlie-tca> I don't believe there is a link anywhere else.
<hyper_ch> [19:30] <charlie-tca> I don't believe there is a link anywhere else.  -->  isn't that a bit stupid? why should I first go into the ubuntu wiki to find the url for filing a bug on launchpad?
<charlie-tca> hyper_ch: the other page I use is https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/ , which has "Report a Bug" at the top right
<charlie-tca> Mostly we send you to the wiki because it makes us ask a lot less questions and requests for logs and such to complete the report
<hyper_ch> ubuntu one has
<hyper_ch> but bugs.launchpad.net hasn't
<hyper_ch> and the other question still remains: why isn't it showing all bugs I have commented on despite having selected that option?
<charlie-tca> When you file the bug, if it doesn't have everything needed, it takes much longer to get all the information before anyone can start working on it.
<charlie-tca> hyper_ch: I can't answer the second question. I don't know why it isn't all the bugs for you.
<hyper_ch> ok
<hyper_ch> so, bug report filed
<hyper_ch> also, why is the "your account" page where you can hcange password different then viewed at in the source code of the browser?
<hyper_ch> and why do I get all the time "
<hyper_ch> Your page was stale.
<hyper_ch> Apologies, the page you came from was a little old. Perhaps you navigated here from a browser window other than the one you used to login. If so, try using the other browser window. Or, try your action again, starting from our home page.
<deryck> abentley, I can watch IRC the last of my day.
* deryck changed the topic of #launchpad to:  https://launchpad.net/ | Help contact: deryck | Launchpad is an open source project: https://dev.launchpad.net/ | This channel is logged: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | User Guide: https://help.launchpad.net/ | Support: https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad
<gustonegro> hi there.  it seems like every time I try to use the launchpad website, I can never find what I need.  I love the idea of the service and would like to improve it.  are you guys willing to hear some constructive criticism?
<lifeless> gustonegro: totally!
<lifeless> gustonegro: there is a mailing list - thats the best place to give feedback - https://launchpad.net/~launchpad-users
<gustonegro> okay, will try to formulate something
#launchpad 2011-09-29
<hrw> hi
<hrw> where can I grab system image used by LP for builds? My package builds in pbuilder but failed on lp
<wgrant> hrw: A URL like https://api.launchpad.net/devel/ubuntu/oneiric/i386/chroot_url
<hrw> wgrant: thank you
<alkisg> Is it normal for launchpad to push translation updates to my branch, when there hasn't been any change from the last update?
<alkisg> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~epoptes-devs/epoptes/trunk/revision/4
<dpm> hi launchpaddders, could someone give me a hand? I'm trying to set up code branch for a project, so that a team has got commit access to the branch. There is an existing branch from one of the members of that team I'd like to use as the project branch. I've created the team and the empty project branch in LP, giving the team ownership. What's the way to push a new branch to the project? I cannot even check out the current empty branch. The project is https
<dpm> ://launchpad.net/ubuntudeveloperportal and 'bzr bzr branch lp:ubuntudeveloperportal' returns bzr saying that it is not a branch
<dpm> (obviously dropping the second bzr in 'bzr bzr' above)
<sagaci> dpm, works for me
<sagaci> bzr branch lp:ubuntudeveloperportal
<dpm> sagaci, now it does, I've just sorted it out :)
<sagaci> sometimes takes a few moments
<dpm> I had created it a few minutes before I asked the question
<dpm> Now I deleted the branch from LP, pushed the branch to the team's branch and then chose the team's branch to be the main project's branch
<dpm> and that worked out well
<deryck> It seems I'm still listed as help contact from late yesterday.
<deryck> but true again now :)
<TeTeT> hi, are there any examples on how to use launchpadlib for blueprints?
<TeTeT> james_w: Daviey pointed me towards you for the above question ^
<tumbleweed> TeTeT: IIRC the api doesn't cover blueprints
<Daviey> TeTeT / tumbleweed: There is, it's just not clear to me how to use it - https://code.launchpad.net/~james-w/launchpad/expose-blueprints/+merge/30026
<tumbleweed> Daviey: well, you can see the documentation here https://launchpad.net/+apidoc/devel.html#specification
<Daviey> TeTeT: https://code.launchpad.net/~nigelbabu/summit/stop-screen-scrape/+merge/63490 ?
<tumbleweed> the API coverage isn't complete, though
<nigelb> The API covers it, probably not exposed over launchpadlib
<Daviey> okay, i'll rephrase - it's not clear to me how to use it as part of launchpadlib
<tumbleweed> Daviey: what do you want to do with a blueprint? spec = lp.distributions['ubuntu'].getSpecification(name='foundations-o-python-versions') retrieves a blueprint for me
<bigjools> ok
<TeTeT> tumbleweed: I'd like to get a list of sub-blueprints and their status and assignees
<Daviey> tumbleweed: Really, getting the relationship between blueprints :)
<tumbleweed> Daviey: they have a dependencies property. I don't think you can go the other direction, though
<Daviey> that might be enough..
<joey> mrevell: ping!
<mrevell> Hey joey!
<joey> Hey mrevell!
<joey> mrevell: 1) congrats on the updated role!
<mrevell> thanks joey :)
<joey> mrevell: 2) do you remember the script we used to translate bug numbers into a headline for the weekly LP report? Is that still public?  I have something like this that I want to expand:
<joey> Bugs fixed
<joey> ===============================
<joey>  * #825327, #819723, #850099, #845793
<joey> s/still public/public
<mrevell> joey, Hmm, good question. I'll have  a look around. Let me see if I can find it in my back-ups or my email.
<joey> mrevell: thanks. come to think of it, I think we used it for the release announcements
<mrevell> We did
<joey> mrevell: iirc it was just a one liner that used the api to look up successive numbers and spit out the desc text
<joey> I suppose I could recreate something.
 * joey wonders if it's in the api lib doc...
<joey> I wonder if matsubara-lunch still has it. I think he was assembling a page of clients at one point
<mrevell> Hey, that's a good point. He may well have it.
<mrevell> joey, I've looked through my archive and my email; it seems I didn't keep it. Sorry.
<joey> mrevell: oh well, thanks for looking.
<joey> mrevell: shouldn't be that hard I guess for me to write something up
<mrevell> Worth waiting to see if matsubara-lunch still has it.
<joey> mrevell: yeah I know we used part of that for something for OEM but that bit of code I think is non-public
<joey> mrevell: as I recall, there is no secret sauce in it...was just something that was never though useful enough to pub
<mrevell> Yeah, it was pretty innocuous.
<matsubara-lunch> joey, mrevell http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~lazr-developers/launchpadlib/trunk/view/head:/contrib/lp-bug-ifier.py
<joey> bingo!
<mrevell> matsubara to the rescue again :)
<joey> amen to that brother
<joey> man's got a mind like a steel trap
<mrevell> Yeah!
<akoskm> hi! I made a "little" misstake in my recipe's naming pattern and built a package based on that pattern. Can I permanently delete the wrongly named package?
<deryck> abentley, I'll pitch to you now for IRC.
* deryck changed the topic of #launchpad to:  https://launchpad.net/ | Help contact: abentley | Launchpad is an open source project: https://dev.launchpad.net/ | This channel is logged: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | User Guide: https://help.launchpad.net/ | Support: https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad
<abentley> deryck: sure.
<deryck> Thanks
<akoskm> hi! is there any way to delete an existing package from my PPA?
<akoskm> I used a not so wise naming pattern for my recipe, and now that package name is "blocking" others, never packages (I placed a git commit-id before {revno} :/).
<dobey> akoskm: on the page for your archive, there should be a "Delete packages" link
<dobey> akoskm: you might have to be in the "package details" view to see it
<akoskm> dobey: lol, indeed it is there, thanks!
<davidstrauss> abentley, Hi. I'm still getting notifications for review by a team I'm no longer on. Is there a way to fix this?
<davidstrauss> abentley, The team is ~economist-magic
<abentley> davidstrauss: what's the reason given for sending you the email, in the footer?
<davidstrauss> abentley, I have an email from a few minutes ago saying, "Your team Economist Online Developers is requested to review the proposed merge..."
<davidstrauss> abentley, But going to the team page shows, "You are not a member of this team."
<davidstrauss> abentley, I used to be on the team and an owner of it.
<abentley> davidstrauss: Owning the team might mean you're considered a member of it.
<davidstrauss> abentley, I'm no longer the owner
<davidstrauss> abentley, Also, LP split the two (owner != member anymore) in a recent release, anyway.
<davidstrauss> abentley, I'm not even sure where it's getting the david@fourkitchens email anymore. I removed that from my account.
<abentley> davidstrauss: how recently were you a member?
<davidstrauss> abentley, months ago
<abentley> davidstrauss: how new are the merge requests themselves?
<davidstrauss> abentley, Brand new ones from today
<davidstrauss> abentley, Or at least brand new comments
<abentley> davidstrauss: can you give me an example mail with full headers, please?
<davidstrauss> abentley, Oh, nvm. I think this is going through a forwarder managed on their side. :-)
<abentley> davidstrauss: that would explain a few things :-)
<davidstrauss> abentley, Sorry for the trouble
<abentley> davidstrauss: np
<doko> spam at https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/528887
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 528887 in netbook-launcher-efl (Ubuntu Lucid) "maximus does not give default focus to newly started apps in combination with efl launcher" [Medium,Fix released]
<sconklin> It doesn't really matter to me much, but it appears that lpia builds in PPAs for Karmic are possibly stalled and backing up. I thought maybe someone might still care about lpia :-)
<mwhudson> doko: hidden
* abentley changed the topic of #launchpad to:  https://launchpad.net/ | Help contact: - | Launchpad is an open source project: https://dev.launchpad.net/ | This channel is logged: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | User Guide: https://help.launchpad.net/ | Support: https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad
#launchpad 2011-09-30
* adeuring changed the topic of #launchpad to: https://launchpad.net/ | Help contact: adeuring | Launchpad is an open source project: https://dev.launchpad.net/ | This channel is logged: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | User Guide: https://help.launchpad.net/ | Support: https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad
<janimo> wgrant, there's no way to cancel a running build from LP right?
<wgrant> janimo: Pretty much correct.
<wgrant> Not in any clean way that doesn't make lamont cry and leave the builder dead.
<lamont> janimo: last I remember the way it worked from lp was that as soon as the build finished naturally, the builder was marked dead
<lamont> this doesn't so much cancel the build (though lp ignores the results), as the builder
<janimo> lamont, but no way to programatically cancel a running build, like there is a retry for a failed one.
<lamont> correct
<lamont> the program there is "poke a GSA"
* deryck changed the topic of #launchpad to: https://launchpad.net/ | Help contact: deryck | Launchpad is an open source project: https://dev.launchpad.net/ | This channel is logged: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | User Guide: https://help.launchpad.net/ | Support: https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad
<idnar> deryck: my commercial project seems to have vanished off Launchpad; how do I find out what's going on?
<deryck> idnar, hmmm, good question.  maybe mrevell or bac can help you?
<mrevell> Hey idnar, what's the project name?
<idnar> mrevell: fusionapp
 * mrevell looks
<bac> idnar: your subscription expired.  you should've gotten email a while back
<bac> idnar: we can reactivate the project for you, but you'll need to purchase another 1 year subscription
<idnar> that's fine; can't find any email regarding the matter, though, so that must have gotten lost somewhere
<bac> idnar: mrevell seems to have taken care of it.  sorry for the inconvenience.
<kamal> hi deryck or other launchpadders...  This one bug page *always* yields a "Timeout error" for me:  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libx11/+bug/507062
<kamal> this has been the case for many weeks.   other launchpad bug pages work fine (generally).    what's up with that one?
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 507062 in libx11 (Ubuntu Lucid) "synaptic assert failure: synaptic: ../../src/xcb_io.c:385: _XAllocID: Assertion `ret != inval_id' failed." [High,Triaged]
* abentley changed the topic of #launchpad to: https://launchpad.net/ | Help contact: abentley | Launchpad is an open source project: https://dev.launchpad.net/ | This channel is logged: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | User Guide: https://help.launchpad.net/ | Support: https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad
<abentley> deryck: I relieve you.
<deryck> abentley, thanks!
<lfaraone> Would it be sensible to have Google Chrome include Launchpad.net on the certificate pinning list?
<deryck> abentley, I've done an hour on interrupt duties.  I'll also spend some time clearing out the project review queue before I EOD.
<deryck> but I'm doing now and will catch that right at the end of the day ;)
<deryck> s/doing/coding/
<abentley> deryck: cool.
<Sweetshark> https://launchpad.net/df-libreoffice/+packages <= how do i get _rid_ of these wrong "links to ubuntu package"? I have searched all over the place and must be blind ...
<Sweetshark> (i.e. libreoffice-3-4 series is of course oneiric, and -3-3 is natty)
<yofel> jelmer: am I doing something wrong in particular? https://code.launchpad.net/~neon/kdelibs/4.7
<dobey> Sweetshark: you mean how they're all linked to trunk?
<dobey> Sweetshark: ah lovely, looks like libreoffice is hitting the weird permissions bug in lp
<soren> What would happen if a build on amd64 resulted in an Arch: all file?
<soren> wgrant: ^
* abentley changed the topic of #launchpad to: https://launchpad.net/ | Help contact: - | Launchpad is an open source project: https://dev.launchpad.net/ | This channel is logged: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | User Guide: https://help.launchpad.net/ | Support: https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad
<slangasek> Sorry, there was a problem connecting to the Launchpad server.  Try reloading this page in a minute or two. If the problem persists, let us know in the #launchpad IRC channel on Freenode.
<slangasek> awoooga
<broder> yeah, getting the same thing
<broder> was just about to ask about it :)
<broder> and we're back
<wgrant> soren: It'll upload, but if any other build also builds that file then only the first one will upload.
#launchpad 2011-10-01
<jelmer> yofel: the / needs to be urlencoded, although that doesn't appear to be working either on Launchpad (it seems to work locally)
<yofel> thanks for taking a look anyway
<wgrant> Sweetshark: I've fixed those links.
<wgrant> Sweetshark: (any reason to go with series names like "libreoffice-3-3" rather than just "3.3"? Projects generally use the latter)
<wgrant> Sweetshark: Also, why df-libreoffice rather than libreoffice? Do you want a rename and/or redirect?
<soren> wgrant: Well, dpkg-genchanges excludes the arch: all packages, so they won't get uploaded anyway :(
<soren> wgrant: Since they never make it into the binary .changes file.
<wgrant> soren: Ah, that's not entirely helpful.
<chrysn> hi, i'm just registering my software with launchpad, and have difficulties setting up proper series.
<chrysn> i'm maintaining everything in git, and have a "master" and a "release" branch there, which i'd like to have tracked in different series.
<chrysn> i've tried creating a new launchpad branch to track the git branch so the launchpad series can track the launchpad branch, but i couldn't set up another launchpad branch:
<chrysn> "register a branch" doesn't allow git tracking, and just before, i tried something else (still looking where it wsa) which told me that i already tracked that git repo (which is true, but i wanted to go for another git branch
<chrysn> "import a branch", that was it -- but it seems i can only use master
<chrysn> does this mean i have to publish the release git branch in another git repo as "master"?
<dobey> chrysn: http://blog.launchpad.net/code/git-branch-imports-now-in-public-beta
<chrysn> thanks, dobey -- that at least explicitly states the problem. (for the moment, i'll just have it track the published tarballs, should be identical anyway)
<chrysn> concerning the import queue of translations: what hints can i give launchpad so it assignes .po files automatically to the respective template? the ones in the initial import all needed manual intervention, and i'd like to keep that down to a minimum
<chrysn> (in my source tree, the .pot is in data/po/messages.pot, and the .po files are in data/po/$LANG.po)
<wgrant> chrysn: Actually, that page is no longer correct.
<wgrant> chrysn: As of a couple of weeks ago, you can import non-master branches.
<wgrant> chrysn: There's no obvious UI for it yet, but you can still do it: add ',branch=somenonmasterbranch' to the end of the import URL.
<idnar> http://blog.launchpad.net/general/gmail-dkim is only applicable for gmail.com, not google apps domains, right?
<idnar> I assume those would need to be whitelisted individually, which is somewhat unfortunate :/
#launchpad 2011-10-02
<lifeless> idnar: you can setup dkim for app domains
<idnar> lifeless: yeah, but I mean, it still has to be specifically whitelisted by Launchpad, right?
<lifeless> idnar: or you can validate your app domain address as a separate 'send from' in gmail, and then it will be covered by the gmail dkim (because we trust gmails checking that you can receive mail at that address)
<idnar> I have DKIM enabled for my apps domain, but it's just a one-user personal domain
<lifeless> idnar: so there are two different things
<lifeless> A) we support dkim.
<lifeless> B) for some dkim sites we support a From: which is not from that site, if the site has still signed it.
<idnar> oh, I see
<wgrant> lifeless: But only signatures by gmail.com are trusted at the moment.
<idnar> ah, I'm not going crazy then :)
<lifeless> now, I'm not sure if for A we accept any site or just some, but the intent is to support any, or easily support many. For B yes, we do intend to have careful whitelisting proceedures (we need to validate that they only sign From addresses outside their site on a sensible basis)
<lifeless> idnar: so if you want to be covered by A, its our *intent* to scale that quite a lot. For B, having your domain enabled for it is much less so :)
<idnar> my mail is From: mithrandi@mithrandi.net and signed with d=mithrandi.net, so I think A) should cover it
<lifeless> right
<lifeless> poolie, who is not on, has been pushing this
<idnar> (but currently it still won't work)
<lifeless> I suggest filing a bug, and we can dig into whats up
<lifeless> as wgrant says it may just be policy (so this is a good time for us to review how that works)
<lifeless> the blog post that refers to 'by request' is talking about B specifically.
<idnar> there's already https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/146327
<idnar> which references #643224
<lifeless> righto
<lifeless> idnar: so, short term: file a merge proposal adding your domain :)
<lifeless> idnar: long term, I'll nag poolie :)
<idnar> I don't know where mail/incoming.py is :P
<lifeless> lp-branches/working$ find . -name 'incoming.py'
<lifeless> ./lib/lp/services/mail/incoming.py
<Noldorin> i registered a project group on LP some time ago... it no longer exists. can anyone help me please?
<wgrant> Noldorin: What was it called?
<Noldorin> wgrant, sorry, i made a mistake and got the name wrong. someone had taken my desired name previously
<Noldorin> out of curiosity, can we now create project groups ourselves?
<wgrant> You can't, no.
<Noldorin> via the website interface
<Noldorin> wgrant, oh :( any reason for that?
<wgrant> They're somewhat deprecated.
<wgrant> Noldorin: The project that previously occupied your desired name is gone?
<Noldorin> wgrant, afraid not
<Noldorin> wgrant, oh, deprecated in favour of what?
<wgrant> Ah
<wgrant> That's a very good question.
<wgrant> No replacement has been devised.
<Noldorin> i see.
<wgrant> So project groups continue to exist while being hated by all.
<Noldorin> may i ask why they were deprecated in that case?
<Noldorin> evidently considered a design flaw of some sort...
<Noldorin> structure flaw, rather
<wgrant> They're not as useful as they could be. The suspicion is that being able to nest projects would improve things.
<wgrant> Gives you multiple levels, allows you to file bugs on the group.
<wgrant> Both things that have been desired.
<wgrant> But it's not clear how this would best be implemented.
<lifeless> the key thing is that project groups encode policy but most folk want to encode affiliation
<lifeless> we will make new groups on request when folk have had this explained and have made an informed choice
<wgrant> You say that encode policy, but I don't really think the current implementation knows what it intends to encode.
<wgrant> s/that/they/
<Noldorin> wgrant, ah, so eventually you may just expand the project framework to have a new type of projects that are simply composed of other projects?
<Noldorin> and can thus be nested indefinitely
<Noldorin> and have all the benefits
<Noldorin> of normal projects
<wgrant> That's one possibility.
<lifeless> wgrant: not as a clear statement of intent no, but the design intent,a nd early implementation, and the beahviour of milestones and other things yes, they do
<Noldorin> wgrant, i guess a major decision like that would go quite a way up to the top though
<Noldorin> and probably won't be made short term
<lifeless> we definitely want to eliminate project groups. whether they are replaced with one thing or many, and what that/they is/are is unknown yet
<lifeless> for now, we only make them on request ;0
<Noldorin> wgrant, i'm glad to know Canonical and the LP team is at least being forward-thinking. :-) slow perhaps...but then there are lots ofthings on thetask list
<lifeless> Noldorin: now, all that said, what one did you want made, and whats it for ? :)
<Noldorin> lifeless, oh, i had one from some time ago :-)
<Noldorin> lifeless, thought i'd named it something, but sometime took my name so i had a more obscure name which i couldn't find heh
<Noldorin> i can never seem to find the "list of all proejcts user X is involved in" on LP
<Noldorin> involved in/maintains
<lifeless> its not in your 'related software' portlet on launchpad.net/~/
<lifeless> ?
<Noldorin> lifeless, hmm?
<Noldorin> lifeless, yeah. i never see that heh. could do with being on the main page insead/as well as "Latest memberships" really
<Noldorin> hmm
<Noldorin> not to midn
<Noldorin> g'night golks
<Noldorin> folks, even :-P
<Noldorin> ^ it is late!
<Laibsch> what is the latest status of "nominate for release" in launchpad?  Is there actually a workflow behing this now?  Back in the days it used to be mostly ignored.
<Laibsch> I'm interested in doing SRU work and wonder how I could easily see bugs that are fixed in #ubuntu+1 but affect an LTS.
<michaelh1> Hi there.  Style question: I'm going to start a branch of crosstool-ng.  Should I set up a crosstool-ng project in Launchpad, set up a code import, then make my own project and branch off that?  If not, what should own the code import?
<lifeless> michaelh1: are you starting a branch of, or a fork of ?
<lifeless> michaelh1: if the former, you need just one project - crosstool-ng. If the latter, then having two projects makes sense.
<michaelh1> A work area.  Most everything will go upstream, but we need somewhere for non-upstreamable stuff, tags, release noise, etc.  And somewhere to release from...
<lifeless> I don't really know what work area implies ;)
<lifeless> you say you are doing releases of the tool ?
<lifeless> non-upstream releases ?
<michaelh1> We'll use crosstool-ng to make binary builds of gcc-linaro.  I want others to be able to reproduce these, so I need to release the exact crosstool-ng and configuration that was used to make the binary
<michaelh1> Think of crosstool-ng as a build script.
<lifeless> its a grey area
<lifeless> I think I'd start with a non-trunk *series* in the crosstool-ng project
<lifeless> e.g. a series called trunk has the vcs import
<lifeless> and a series called linaro has your releases of crosstool-ng
<michaelh1> OK.  So launchpad.net/crosstool-ng doesn't exist yet.  I'll create it and set up the import into a series called 'trunk' and use that to seed the linaro series.
<michaelh1> I feel a bit funny creating an import-only project for something I don't own...
<lifeless> there is a setting when you register the project
<lifeless> use it ;)
<lifeless> ("I do not want to maintain this project")
<michaelh1> ...and I should just ask the guy/inform him :)
<Phantomas> Hello everyone! If I delete a PPA from a team, will it be possible to rename the team?
<chrysn> wgrant: thanks, that really works :-). any reason this is not yet documented in https://help.launchpad.net/VcsImports?
<wgrant> chrysn: It's brand new and we hope to have a better UI for it soon.
<wgrant> Then we'll announce/document it.
<chrysn> anyway, cool feature, works for me. (although i didn't do much bzr-side testing, just viewing in launchpad -- probably the typical behavior of people who use git and then do some stuff in lp.)
<wgrant> Great!
<chrysn> just waiting for my first recipe based on it to finish (local testing failed because of something fixed on the build servers; i've merged/built it often enough to be optimistic about it building)
#launchpad 2012-09-24
* czajkowski changed the topic of #launchpad to: Reduced Builder capacity at present | Help contact: czajkowski | Launchpad is an open source project: https://dev.launchpad.net/ | This channel is logged: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | User Guide: https://help.launchpad.net/ | Support: https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad
* czajkowski changed the topic of #launchpad to: Reduced Builder capacity at present | Help contact:- | Launchpad is an open source project: https://dev.launchpad.net/ | This channel is logged: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | User Guide: https://help.launchpad.net/ | Support: https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad
<ard> meeh
<ard> the launchpad registration process is not nice :-(
<james_w> is anyone else seeing diffs failing to load, e.g. on https://bazaar.launchpad.net/+branch/launchpad/revision/16015 ?
<james_w> just tried with three branches
<lifeless> james_w: X-Oops-Id:OOPS-0625726f0e60d9ad5e7084aa6dad9bd0
<ubot5> https://oops.canonical.com/?oopsid=0625726f0e60d9ad5e7084aa6dad9bd0
<lifeless> james_w: ctrl-shift-K ftw
<james_w> aha
<james_w> looks like url routing is busted then
<lifeless> PermissionDenied: Permission denied: "Cannot create '+filediff'. Only Bazaar branches are allowed."
<lifeless> Module lp.codehosting.vfs.transport, line 305, in get_bytes
<lifeless>     return extract_result(self._async_transport.get_bytes(relpath))
<lifeless>   Module lp.services.twistedsupport, line 102, in extract_result
<lifeless>     failures[0].raiseException()
<lifeless>   Module twisted.python.failure, line 370, in raiseException
<lifeless>     raise self.type, self.value, self.tb
<lifeless> PermissionDenied: Permission denied: "Cannot create '+filediff'. Only Bazaar branches are allowed."
<lifeless> fun
<lifeless> james_w: care to file a bug ?
<lifeless> I'm sure purple will love this one
<james_w> lifeless, loggerhead I guess?
<lifeless> two tasks
<lifeless> loggerhead & LP
<lifeless> if its a loggerhead bug, needs fix there, release, deploy.
<lifeless> the deploy step being LP today
<james_w> https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/1055751
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1055751 in Launchpad itself "Permission denied: "Cannot create '+filediff' trying to get diff for a file" [Critical,Confirmed]
<lifeless> sinzui: ^ can we toss StevenK_ or wgrant_ at that today?
<lifeless> james_w: did you try non +branch urls ?
<james_w> no
<lifeless> james_w: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~launchpad-pqm/launchpad/devel/revision/16016?start_revid=16016 works
<james_w> yep
<sinzui> lifeless, I will bring it up in out meeting in 2 hours. I think we can get the fix released in a few days
<lifeless> sinzui: thanks
<jfcaron> I have my code versioned with bazaar and pushed to launchpad.  If I am using a remote machine (no admin access) which only has older VCS like CVS/SVN, can I use them to pull from my launchpad repo?
<jfcaron> Or do I need to like, wget the file directly?
#launchpad 2012-09-25
<jbicha> what happened to bug 1054776?
<ubot5> Error: Launchpad bug 1054776 could not be found
<wgrant> Sigh, looks like some random marked it public
<wgrant> Er, private
<wgrant> Let me get it recovered
<jbicha> thanks
<wgrant> jbicha: That bug's alive again.
<wgrant> Thanks for pointing that out
<jbicha> bkerensa pointed it to me, I didn't understand it but now I do
<wgrant> I see reddit's already calling it a Canonical conspiracy to delete the bug :)
<wgrant> But yeah, some random user marked it private :(
<wgrant> Ah, thanks for commenting there
<lifeless> its public again
<lifeless> wow 1070 heat
<wgrant> Lots of affectsmetoos
<StevenK> wgrant: Why would they do that? :-(
<xnox> there was yet to be a feature freeze without a controversy. all is as per schedule.
<wgrant> Heh
<wgrant> Indeed
<tsimpson> it looks like the user who made it private also went an unsubscribed a bunch of people
<wgrant> Making it private unsubscribes people who aren't able to see it any more
<wgrant> It also displays a big warning that this is going to happen...
<wgrant> But apparently the user clicked through it
<tsimpson> ah, I see
<thomi> Hi, Using the launchpad MR email interface, I occaisonally get a mail bounce containing "Signature couldn't be verified: (7, 8, u'Bad signature')" - but I'm using the same mail client with the same key set up...
<smoser> hey, wonder if any launchpad admin can help me.
<smoser> i'm trying to copy binaries from https://launchpad.net/%7Ecanonical-arm-dev/+archive/ppa/+copy-packages to https://launchpad.net/~maas-maintainers/+archive/maas-ephemeral-images
<bigjools> smoser: timeouts?
<smoser> i copied the source once, then realized I didn't want source (as I need the armhf builds), and deleted it from the target
<smoser> (i do get timeouts, but i'm not sure its related)
<smoser> now I keep getting:
<smoser> The following source cannot be copied:
<smoser>     mountall 2.41~ppa415 in quantal (same version already uploaded and waiting in ACCEPTED queue)
<smoser> i think i could have hosed something by deleting the source copy very soon after i did it.
<bigjools> yes, yes you did :(
<bigjools> wgrant: geez, I thought this bug was fixed ages ago?
<smoser> bigjools, can it be fixed?
<smoser> bigjools, are you able to help that?
<smoser> or know a workaround?
<wgrant> I'm just heading out for lunch, can look afterwards
<wgrant> But normally that'll resolve itself after 10-15 minutes
<wgrant> When it's published
<smoser> well, its been ~ 30 at least
<wgrant> Unless you've crashed the publisher
<smoser> i did just give it a while to see if it would owrk itsweay out
<smoser> way out
<bigjools> smoser: there's a crack team of maintenance people available I hope, but if all else fails I can look, if I can remember how to :)
<smoser> well, if wgrant can resolve it before i wake up in ~ 8 hours, that'd be soon enough for me.
<bigjools> ok
<wgrant> Hm
<wgrant> This was a delayed copy
<wgrant> They never end well :)
<bigjools>  /o\
<bigjools> it's time to remove that crappy code and use the new world order
<wgrant> You know you're in trouble when you see an announcement from process-accepted...
<wgrant> bigjools: Yeah, cjwatson is close :)
<bigjools> heh
<bigjools> is this holding up the ppa publishing pipeline?
<wgrant> No
<wgrant> No exceptions that I can see
<wgrant> So I'm really confused as to why it's stuck in ACCEPTED
<wgrant> Really need to leave now, though
<wgrant> Will be back in an hourish
<smoser> thanks wgrant
<bigjools> wgrant in leaving keyboard SHOCKER
<wgrant> Shhh
<wgrant> Oh right
<wgrant> I remember a bug here
<lifeless> wgrant: a BUG?!?!?!?!?1
<wgrant> When it says "waiting in ACCEPTED queue", it might actually mean "in any queue at all, including DONE"
<wgrant> IIRC
<wgrant> You can't delayed-copy twice to the same place, probably
<wgrant> Anyway, => lunch
<wgrant> So yeah
<wgrant>             upload_conflict = getUtility(IPackageUploadSet).findSourceUpload(
<wgrant>                 name=source.sourcepackagerelease.name,
<wgrant>                 version=source.sourcepackagerelease.version,
<wgrant>                 archive=self.archive, distribution=series.distribution)
<wgrant> When it says ACCEPTED, it means "any queue at all"
<wgrant> smoser: There's not much you can do directly. But if you copy it with binaries to another public PPA (any one will do) and wait a few minutes for everything to be made public, you should be able to copy into ppa:maas-maintainers/maas-ephemeral-images.
<smoser> wgrant, ok. woke up this morning, tried it. it still failed, so i just now copied binaries to personal ppa (https://launchpad.net/~smoser/+archive/ppa/+packages) and i will walk away for a bit and hope magic happens
<pfarrell> hi
<pfarrell> is it possible to sort bugs in a list by when they were reported?
<pfarrell> that would be really useful
<pfarrell> I'm looking at https://bugs.launchpad.net/dolfin and would like to "Order by" date, but there is no date
<wgrant> pfarrell: Sort by Number.
<czajkowski> pfarrell: no not by order by date, we have age and sort number
<pfarrell> ohh!
<pfarrell> of course
<pfarrell> my apologies, how obvious
<pfarrell> thanks
<czajkowski> pfarrell: no worries
<geser> pfarrell: click on the wheel, enable "age" and then sort by age
<wgrant> Also Age should work, yeah, though it's not shown by default
<pfarrell> oh, I didn't even know the wheel was clickable
<pfarrell> I thought it was just there to look pretty
<czajkowski> would love if that wheel was bigger or a differen colour people dont seem to notice it
<czajkowski> surpirsed mpt_ hasnt logged a bug about it
<czajkowski> *surprised
<pfarrell> yeah, I was scanning for "date" and didn't find it so I thought I would complain
<pfarrell> when someone is in a rush they're unlikely to process "ah, bug ids are issued such that if idX > idY then X is newer than Y, so if I sort by number I will sort by date"
<pfarrell> maybe you could label it "Number/date" ?
<TLoT> there's WAY too many timeouts... OOPS-b1ad43885c5f4c1049a04f967e4df3fb
<ubot5> https://oops.canonical.com/?oopsid=b1ad43885c5f4c1049a04f967e4df3fb
<TLoT> that one was on the ubuntu project page, kind of a critical page.
<hannie> May I ask who is responsible for the msgmerge command used in LP?
<czajkowski> hannie: what do you mean responsible?
<hannie> who can change it to msgmerge --previous
<hannie> I want to transfer the so called fuzzies from one version to a newer one with this command
<czajkowski> so you want help with the command itself
<hannie> Lokalize does this automatically, but we prefer to translate online
<hannie> czajkowski, no, I want it changed in Launchpad
<hannie> We keep on copying and pasting long strings to newer versions because all the fuzzies are thrown away in LP
<czajkowski> what do you mean fuzzies?
<hannie> a fuzzy is the translation of a msgid that has undergone a slight change (ie a comma)
<czajkowski> sinzui: any idea where best to direct hannie to? filing a bug or a question on LP ?
 * sinzui looks
<hannie> czajkowski, I have tried the ubuntu-translators mailing list, but to no avail
<hannie> It is a huge problem for translators of documentation like ubuntu-docs and ubuntu-manual
<czajkowski> hannie: did they reply ?
<sinzui> hannie, https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/540757
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 540757 in Launchpad itself "Drop fuzzy etc." [Low,Triaged]
<hannie> well, sort of. The answer was that there is not enough manpower
<czajkowski> hannie: well that's the same answer you'll get here
<sinzui> No one is working on translations
<sinzui> Looks like the last developers wanted to remove the feature entirely.
<hannie> it is the making of .pot files into .po files that needs changing
<hannie> LP is used very often for online translations
<hannie> we translators are not happy at all with this copying and pasting for every new version of Ubuntu that is released
<sinzui> okay, so this issue is closer to this bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/429222
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 429222 in Launchpad itself ""Translations/YourProject/PartialPOExport" help guide - suggest using the --no-fuzzy-matching option for merges" [Low,Triaged]
<hannie> I'll have a look
<sinzui> I think you want to report a new bug that you want --previous
<sinzui> hannie, There is more than a year of critical work for the maintenance squad, and there is more than a year of high work after that. The best chance of fixing this issue is for someone with translations and programming experience to submit a patch
<sinzui> s/patch/tested branch/
<hannie> I am willing to do some testing, but then I need someone from LP to change the command for me
<hannie> I do not see any sense in reporting another bug, because I do not think that will help
<hannie> sinzui, I am aware of the loads of work that need to be done and I do appreciate it
<sinzui> hannie, Lp cannot accept a change without a unit test. the person who makes the change also needs to know how to write the unit test to verify it works. I can make changes for you only if you can explain (probably in an email or bug) how I know It works and I did not break something else in Lp
<hannie> sinzui, fair enough. I will do some tests first and then contact you again
<sinzui> okay. I am sinzui in Lp and irc
<hannie> ty for your time
<czajkowski> OOPS-11dcf20bdf63f999b9451a5acd611f02
<ubot5> https://oops.canonical.com/?oopsid=11dcf20bdf63f999b9451a5acd611f02
<jfcaron> Is there a convenient way to get a fixed URL that always points to the latest version of a file on launchpad, e.g. for downloading with wget?
<jfcaron> It seems my latest version urls always have a timestamp in them, or the actual revision number, so I can't reliably make a script that wgets the latest version.
<bjf> i'm trying to look at https://launchpad.net/bugs/1052530 and i can't see it. i've asked 5 other people with more privs than i including the security team and none of them can see it as well
<ubot5> Error: ubuntu bug 1052530 not found
<bjf> can anyone tell be what is up with that bug?
<czajkowski> bjf: I cant see it either we can't see private bugs either
<czajkowski> bjf: you might find someone in #ubuntu-bug
<czajkowski> are you sure also that is the correct bug bumber
<bjf> czajkowski: the bug # is correct
<czajkowski> then someone from the bug squad will be able to help
<bjf> czajkowski: and i've tried someone from the bug squad
<bjf> czajkowski: i've tried a several people from bug squad
<czajkowski> sinzui: thoughts?
<sinzui> I cannot see it. bjf, how do you know about this bug? A dupe?
<bjf> sinzui: http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/1-day-new.html  it will show up in a search
<bjf> sinzui: 4th from the top
<sinzui> ah, if ubuntu-bugs cannot see it, then this is evil apport using Lp as a crash database. bjf, No human can see the bug. There is nothing you or any human can do
<bjf> sinzui: i've never encountered this before, that seems quite odd
<bjf> sinzui: that doesn't look like an apport title
<sinzui> bjf, it is the most common reason a bug cannot be accessed.
<sinzui> bjf, if it is not apport, then the bug was targeted to a project where other people have access
<sinzui> bjf, this might be case were a user decided to make the bug private without giving anyone access to it...in which can the bug will never be fixed because Ubuntu does not share that data with any people
<bjf> sinzui: and there is _no one_ that can look at the bug to see if that is truly the case and it's not an issue with LP ?
<sinzui> No, We allow projects to choose who gets access to confidential data. Ubuntu chooses that No human gets access.
<sinzui> They can change the rule at any time
<sinzui> They wont until they dismantle apport or at least stop it from using Lp as a crash database.
<sinzui> bjf, user are warned that they are going to shoot themselves in the foot. This is the text of the confirmation panel shown to users who make Ubuntu bugs private http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/1227025/
<bjf> sinzui, ok, i guess that bug is dead to me
<sinzui> bjf, You can ask a webops on #launchpad-ops if he can see why it is private
<MattJ100> Does anyone know which machines architecture-independent packages are built on in PPAs?
<MattJ100> I have dependency problems, and I'm not sure if it's an issue with my source package, or because amd64 has built but i386 hasn't
<slank> bjf: webops here reading backscroll, but can you paraphrase your question?
<bjf> sinzui, i can't get to https://launchpad.net/bugs/1052530
<ubot5> Error: ubuntu bug 1052530 not found
<bjf> slank ^
<bjf> slank, and i'd like to know why
<slank> bjf: looking
<sinzui> slank, if no one but the reporter is subscribed, and the bug is on Ubuntu, you should subscribe someone, maybe ubuntu-bugs so that someone can see the issue
<slank> sinzui: ubuntu-bugs is now subscribed
<sinzui> thanks slank
<sinzui> bjf, sorry, you need to ask ubuntu-bugs agains
<bjf> sinzui, slank, thanks, i'm in ubuntu-bugs
<bjf> sinzui, if i look at the activity log for that bug, would i see if the user made it private?
<bjf> sinzui: sorry, yes he did
<sinzui> bjf, was the bug reported via email? I guess the bug would have been created private in that case
<bjf> sinzui, no, looks like he marked it private on his own for some reason
<bjf> sinzui, i'm assuming user error and adding a comment
<sinzui> understood
<smoser> ugh
<smoser> The following source cannot be copied:
<smoser>     open-iscsi 2.0.871-0ubuntu9.1~ppa2 in precise (a different source with the same version is published in the destination archive)
<smoser> i disagree with that. the destination archive (https://launchpad.net/~maas-maintainers/+archive/maas-ephemeral-images) does not have any such package
<smoser> anyone have a suggestion there?
<patdk-wk> heh :)
<patdk-wk> smoser, your going have to ping their names to get attention
<smoser> well, i dont know who to ping.
<smoser> this is frustrating.
<patdk-wk> odd
<patdk-wk> was in the topic last week
<patdk-wk> sinzui
<patdk-wk> can't remember the other one, started with j
<czajkowski> smoser: I'm usually on between 9-6
<czajkowski> after that it's maintenance team so sinzui jcsackett wallyworld wgrant and StevenK
<smoser> anyone above able to help me?
<smoser> i've tried the trick wgrant suggested yesterday , of copying it to a different archive (that succeeded)
<smoser> but it still complains copyint it to where i want it to go
<sinzui> smoser, I think you need to make a change to increment the package version so that it is clear yours is different from the one that is installed on user machines.
<smoser> sinzui, ? its complaining about an archive copy.
<sinzui> smoser, 2.0.871-1ubuntu9.1~ppa2  or 2.0.871-0ubuntu9.2~ppa2
<patdk-wk> a copy isn't a change
<sinzui> smoser, It is complaining that you might be doing a man-in-the-middle attack by provide a package with a known version, but the contents are different
<smoser> i can do that. just sucks. as it takes an hour to get a build out.
<sinzui> a copy is not a change. If that version (from anywhere) was ever uploaded and accepted, then no person can reuse it with different content. this is probably a naming collision
<sinzui> Yes I sucks. I have had to make a bogus increment to a package this year just to be certain someone does not think it is the other package uploaded some where else
<patdk-wk> that is understandable, but if it's a clone/copy, it's the same bogus package in both locations :)
<mfisch> anyone know if there's a way to see the --fixes info in branch history for trunk after the branch was merged to trunk/
<mfisch> ?
<mfisch> for example, I fix a bug in my private branch, merge it to trunk, do we lose the --fixes info in the merge?
<danilos> mfisch, nope, but you may need to pass in -n0 to bzr log
<mfisch> -n0 helps, but bzr log doesn't seem to show --fixes info, maybe it won't in general
<bac> benji: oh, he's talking about the charm search
<MattJ100> To answer my own question from earlier, the architecture-independent package was built from the i386 build
<DNS> hm amd64 are chroot error with precise only? https://launchpad.net/~dns/+archive/gnu/+build/3853503/+files/buildlog_ubuntu-precise-amd64.denemo_0.9.6%2B20120925%7Egit.dbafd55-1%7Eprecise1_CHROOTWAIT.txt.gz like https://launchpad.net/~dns/+archive/gnu/+build/3854567/+files/buildlog_ubuntu-precise-amd64.texmacs_1%3A1.0.7.16%7E20120925%7Esvn5743%7Eprecise1_CHROOTWAIT.txt.gz any1 have a clue why?
<DNS> other builds are good, only precise and amd64
<DNS> *only precise with amd64 not
<geser> DNS: your libp11-kit0 (from your test ppa) breaks the update of this package (the preinst script of it)
<DNS> thx geser
<maxb> !ids username=lbso2jakdaw
<ubot5> maxb: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<maxb> ugh, incorrect network
<TheLordOfTime> lol
<agrif> anyone know where I can go to get help signing up for an account?
<ebergen> anything more specific?
<agrif> I've tried to sign up for a launchpad account 3 times now (on different days) and I never get the confirmation email.
<agrif> I've also tried this: https://forms.canonical.com/lp-login-support/ but the page it eventually redirects me to doesn't do anything. It just sits there.
<agrif> :(
<czajkowski> wgrant: ^^^
<wgrant> agrif: We don't actually run the login stuff. Can you try asking in #canonical-isd?
<agrif> ok, thanks. I'll try there.
#launchpad 2012-09-26
<C0FFEE> hi
<C0FFEE> How to stop using account? Please tell me the web page.
<C0FFEE> I want to resigne launchpad.
<czajkowski> C0FFEE: what is your launchpad id ?
<tsimpson> C0FFEE: https://launchpad.net/people/+me/+deactivate-account
<czajkowski> https://launchpad.net/~coffee/+deactivate-account
<czajkowski> if its your user name
<czajkowski> tsimpson: morning
<tsimpson> morning :)
<C0FFEE> thx all
<thumper> czajkowski: you can just use ~ instead of ~name
<czajkowski> thumper: so I just learnt
<thumper> czajkowski: asuming you are logged in
<czajkowski> :s
* czajkowski changed the topic of #launchpad to: Reduced Builder capacity at present | Help contact: czajkowski | Launchpad is an open source project: https://dev.launchpad.net/ | This channel is logged: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | User Guide: https://help.launchpad.net/ | Support: https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad
<ricotz> czajkowski, hello
<czajkowski> ricotz: hi
<ricotz> (don't worry, no libreoffice this time)
<ricotz> czajkowski, is possible to get rid of this rouge reference -- https://launchpad.net/~elementary-os/+archive/daily/+recipebuild/107056
<czajkowski> ah ok I'll sit back down again so
<czajkowski> ricotz: what's wrong with it?
<ricotz> czajkowski, it was never built and since the recipe itself is gone this build just sits in the queue
<wgrant> Ah, October 2011
<wgrant> That was a bad time for a few recipes...
<czajkowski> wgrant: not  good month no ?
<wgrant> I've cancelled it, so it's hopefully gone now
<czajkowski> bah wgrant and his magic voodoo
<czajkowski> cheers
<ricotz> another one i am wondering about it the "1 pending build" here -- https://launchpad.net/~xorg-edgers/+archive/ppa/+packages
<ricotz> wgrant, thanks
<czajkowski> ricotz: are you spring cleaning
<ricotz> czajkowski, this one bugs for me for a while ;)
<ricotz> but i dont a efficient way to find the reference for it
<ricotz> (from my side)
<ricotz> regarding x-edgers, there is no visible pending build
<ricotz> might be some superseeded dep-wait
<czajkowski> ricotz: I suspect wgrant will need to do that not me
<wgrant> ricotz: Well, you can find it by looking at https://launchpad.net/~xorg-edgers/+archive/ppa/+builds?build_text=&build_state=pending and https://launchpad.net/~xorg-edgers/+archive/ppa/+builds?build_text=&build_state=building
<wgrant> Except for the minor issue that it's not actually there
<wgrant> So something's a little wrong
<wgrant> Possibly another rogue recipe build
<ricotz> wgrant, hehe, i know how to filter them in the launchpad gui ;)
<ricotz> xedgers doesnt contain recipe builds
<wgrant> Hm, true
<ricotz> wgrant, i hope you can remove this pending-build-reference too
<Laney> can I make "Status changed to 'Confirmed' because the bug affects multiple users." stop happening for a particular bug?
<czajkowski> Laney: no
<Laney> :(
<czajkowski> there is logic to this as I found out from lifeless
<Laney> convince me
<wgrant> ricotz: Ah, there's a build stuck Uploading
<Laney> I want to keep this bug at New because that's how we look at freeze exceptions
<wgrant> There are 27 such builds, all from last December.
<lifeless> Laney: we have no facility for such an exception
<wgrant> Laney: Ubuntu QA requested it. It's only enabled for Ubuntu, and there's no way to disable it for a single bug
<Laney> Do you think it woudl be reasonable to ask for it to only act once on a given bug?
<lifeless> Laney: and using new to track freeze exceptions is inconsistent with the general use of status
<Laney> perhaps :)
<lifeless> Laney: once per bugtask perhaps
<lifeless> Laney: but really, why not use tags, its what they were added for
<wgrant> ricotz: https://launchpad.net/~xorg-edgers/+archive/ppa/+build/2095413
<wgrant> ricotz: There are 26 other builds like it, all from a few days in December.
<wgrant> ricotz: I'll see what I can do about cleaning them up tomorrow
<ricotz> wgrant, thank you for looking into it!
<danilos> czajkowski, hi, just to double check, are there any (beta or non-beta) private features for blueprints?
<czajkowski> danilos: http://blog.launchpad.net/general/privacy-for-blueprints-enabled-for-beta-testers
<danilos> czajkowski, thanks, I suppose I should ask deryck for specifics then
<czajkowski> danilos: indeed or anyone else on his team
<danilos> czajkowski, ack, thanks
<danilos> czajkowski, beta testers team is ~launchpad-beta-testers?
<dobey> hi czajkowski
<czajkowski> danilos: yes
<czajkowski> dobey: you never say hi, what do you need....
<dobey> czajkowski: do you know the proper person to bug to get armel/armhf builds enabled for some PPAs?
<czajkowski> dobey: I do, it's in the channel over there-->  -ops
<czajkowski> see I was right :p
<dobey> thanks
<czajkowski> :)np
* czajkowski changed the topic of #launchpad to: Reduced Builder capacity at present | Help contact:- | Launchpad is an open source project: https://dev.launchpad.net/ | This channel is logged: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | User Guide: https://help.launchpad.net/ | Support: https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad
<garr> hi people
<garr> i've problem with launchpad
<garr> i sync my bazaar repo with github repo
<garr> and it worked 3 days ago
<garr> now it fails to sync
<garr> http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=XJG0eiq1
<garr> this is the log
<garr> https://github.com/Garrappachc/Vatsinator
<garr> this is the repo i'm trying to sync with
<garr> what does the error mean and how do i fix it?
<garr> anybody?
<dobey> garr: looks like you added some submodules to the git repo
<dobey> garr: bzr doesn't have support for submodules
<garr> nope, i didn't
<mhall> Hello, my launchpad SSO is busted and I can't login to comment on an ubuntu bug. Is there anybody who can help me figure out what happened?
<garr> all i added was 2 tags
<mhall> Also, it's impossible to make a help request onto https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad if your account doesn't get past SSO :-D
<garr> dobey: any possibility to fix it soon?
<garr> it blocks my daily builds
<dobey> garr: i don't know. i can't fix it. the error means bzr is seeing a submodule for that branch for some reason
<garr> i don't have any submodules...
<garr> thats weird
<garr> it worked for 2-3 weeks
<garr> and then stopped
<dobey> https://github.com/Garrappachc/Vatsinator/commit/7c979e293fbcecce58580605f1d64aa58ccd6436
<dobey> i think that is what broke it
<mhall> Any takers on my SSO issue?
<dobey> mhall: I think you need to ask in #canonical-isd maybe
<mhall> OK
<garr> dobey: okay, but i merged the debian branch a few days ago
 * mhall crosses fingers
<garr> i dont have any submodules right now
<dobey> garr: the debian dir was merged on the same day the imports stopped working
<garr> how can i fixed that?
<dobey> i don't know what "Subproject commit" means on github exactly, but i suspect that commit is the issue
<garr> i don't remember it either
<garr> i just merged the debian branch
<garr> so there is no way i can sync my repo on launchpad?
<dobey> "However, if a object of type âcommitâ is listed (with the mode 160000) that represents a submodule."
<dobey> you can make the debian dir not be a submodule any more
<dobey> http://longair.net/blog/2010/06/02/git-submodules-explained/
<garr> dobey: it didn't help
<garr> i don't have .gitmodules nor lines in config
<garr> i removed the debian directory
<garr> didn't help
<dobey> can you not uncommit and remove the history of that commit?
<garr> hmm
<garr> will try
<garr> never been doing it before
<garr> dobey: that was a little bit difficult, but worked as a charm ;)
<garr> thanks
#launchpad 2012-09-27
<a-l-e--> hi
<a-l-e--> i could create a ppa and upload it to my launchpad account
<a-l-e--> now, i want to update the package...
<a-l-e--> i've updated the source code from the git repository...
<a-l-e--> exported it to a zip file...
<a-l-e--> created a new folder next to the one where i've put the "older" source code when creating a ppa, with a new name matching the current timestamp:
<a-l-e--> scribus-git-indic-1.5.0git.indic201209271000
<a-l-e--> copied the debian/ directory from the old scribus-git-indic* directory to the new one...
<a-l-e--> added a log entry...
<a-l-e--> ... is everything correct until now?
<geser> wgrant: where should the "all"-part of "Architecture: all armel" get build? on i386, right? see also https://launchpadlibrarian.net/117435196/buildlog_ubuntu-quantal-i386.fso-frameworkd_0.9.5.9%2Bgit20110512-4_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<wgrant> geser: Bug #690428
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 690428 in launchpad-buildd "FTBFS due to arch check failing to match Architecture: "all" at sbuild time" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/690428
<geser> this also leads to the somewhat weird situation where fso-frameworkd-gta0{1,2} get build on armel and published but fso-frameworkd doesn't get build at all the currently published version is from the previous upload/build (uploaded/build in karmic)
<wgrant> I'm not sure if modern non-LP sbuild supports that situation these days, but two years ago it didn't.
<ttx> Hey guys, looks like I built a milestone page that is just too big for Launchpad (too many bugs and blueprints targeted), it always timeouts
<ttx> https://launchpad.net/nova/folsom/2012.2
<ttx> flacoste: any idea how we can work around that ?
<flacoste> ttx: we can increase the timeout on the page, or you could reduce the number of bugs and blueprints linked ;-)
<ebergen> fix bugs :)
<ttx> ebergen: well, they are all FixReleased ;)
<ttx> flacoste: if increasing the timeout is an option, that would be great
<ttx> we like to show off with lists of bugs and blueprints completed
<ebergen> it didn't time out for me
<ebergen> that is an impressive list
<ttx> ebergen: quick let me try so that I benefit from your cache
<flacoste> jcsackett: can you take care of increasing the timeout on the milestone page please? as it's timing out for openstack and their folsom release
<ttx> ebergen: still fail for me
<ebergen> let me try when I'm logged in
<ebergen> without being logged in it takes 8 seconds
<ebergen> now it times out
<ttx> jcsackett: for reference: https://launchpad.net/nova/folsom/2012.2
<ebergen> interesting
<ebergen> while logged in it times out after about 7 seconds
<ebergen> now dead :(
<jcsackett> flacoste: sure. right now timeout is set 6000, try 9000 you think?
<flacoste> jcsackett: yes, we probably don't want to increase it too much
<flacoste> jcsackett: thanks!
<jcsackett> flacoste: yw. i'm listing you as the approval in the request. that cool?
<ebergen> I also approve :)
<flacoste> jcsackett: of course!
<jcsackett> ebergen, ttx, flacoste: request is in. will ping you when it's live.
<ttx> jcsackett: thx!
<smallfoot-> what does FFe mean?
<ttx> smallfoot-: FeatureFreeze exception
<smallfoot-> ok thx
<dobey> is there any way to acces /+apidoc/ directly from a subdomain?
<jcsackett> ebergen, ttx: timeout increased. give it a try.
<ebergen> nope :(
<ebergen> still takes 3 or 4 tries
<jcsackett> flacoste: ^
<dobey> or can someone fix the +apidoc css to have body { font-size: 12px; } like the rest of launchpad.net seems to have?
<ebergen> then it does load it only takes a few seconds
<jcsackett> ebergen: right; previous hits are just warming it up.
<jcsackett> ebergen: guess i'll see about incrementing it further.
<flacoste> jcsackett: might be worth a look at actually fixing the underlying bug
<flacoste> jcsackett: but we could increase the time to 15 in the mean time
<jcsackett> flacoste: yeah, we have a bug for it and sinzui and i were talking about fixes.
<jcsackett> flacoste: i think we'll probably be motivated to move on that now.
<jcsackett> ttx, ebergen: we've temporarily set the timeout at 15; for me, it's still timing out. i'm going to begin work on the underlying issues.
<ebergen> I don't think that is the right timeout because it times out in about 7 seconds for me
 * jcsackett looks
<ttx> jcsackett: yeah, same here, timeouts after 7 sec
<ttx> maybe a released milestone has a different reference frmo an unreleased one
<ttx> jcsackett: lifeless pointed to https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/736010
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 736010 in Launchpad itself "Milestone:+index timeouts" [Critical,Triaged]
<jcsackett> ttx: yes, that's the bug i'm looking at. it's part of purple's critical list.
<lifeless> jcsackett: flacoste: I don't think the timeout will work :)
<lifeless> its bad O python code
<lifeless> and when python goes bad, it goes way bad :)
<jcsackett> lifeless: oh goodie.
<ttx> sorry for pushing that page over the limit :)
<lifeless> jcsackett: see the time breakdown in the oops - 400ms sql, 6 seconds python
<jcsackett> for what it's worth, i was indeed looking at the wrong timeout; ProjectMilestone vs Milestone
<ttx> jcsackett: so increasing the timeout should still help, I guess
<ttx> even if the bug should be fixed in any case
<jcsackett> ttx: oh yes, the bug is going to be fixed. i don't like leaving a timeout limit as a solution.
<lifeless> jcsackett: so for this
<lifeless> jcsackett:  have a look a tthe sql statement log
<lifeless> jcsackett: there are no long sql statements, but you can still infer interesting things
<jcsackett> ttx, ebergen: try now. ebergen was correct, i was misreading the timeout rules.
<jcsackett> it now loads for me.
<ttx> jcsackett: works now, awesome
<ttx> Thanks for the quick fix!
<lifeless> OOPS-cd08a4707c43e68373197833bb4d271c
<ubot5> https://oops.canonical.com/?oopsid=cd08a4707c43e68373197833bb4d271c
<ebergen> now it works
<cmars232> ajax not working on launchpad... how come?
<lifeless> cmars232: more details needed
<cmars232> lifeless: sorry.. when i click on the yellow edit links, they usually open an ajaxy popup. today they have mostly been loading a different edit page. for example, if i want to change the status of a bug
<cmars232> lifeless: it's not consistent though, i've gotten the popups a few times, but not very often
<lifeless> give me an example of a page that isn't working for you please
<cmars232> lifeless: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ztrustee/+bug/1033527
<ubot5> Error: ubuntu bug 1033527 not found
<cmars232> lifeless: private project
<lifeless> ah
<lifeless> I won't be able to test there then I suspect
<cmars232> let me see if a public one does it
<cmars232> lifeless: public project doesn't have this problem
<cmars232> lifeless: at least, not the one i own
<lifeless> ok, so its likely something specific to private projects
<lifeless> cmars232: please file a bug
<lifeless> cmars232: bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+filebug
<cmars232> lifeless: done, https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/1057752
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1057752 in Launchpad itself "AJAX not working for private projects" [Undecided,New]
<lifeless> thanks
<beuno> seems that in the case of merge proposals
<beuno> you can't set pre-req branches due to this
<beuno> http://ubuntuone.com/2UTX2yREfhc58B7Xs3Zb0i
<cody-somerville> It seems it isn't all AJAX that is broken - just modal dialogues aren't working.
<cody-somerville> or at least certain ones
<cody-somerville> newer ones don't seem to be affected
<lifeless> I'm going to guess that sinzui will be siccing wallyworld__ on it, but its only a guess.
<sinzui> I think privacy banner is the cause
<sinzui> I just dupe two bugs against the one I reported/experienced
<wallyworld__> lifeless: why my fault? i found an issue yesterday with our js (not me) and put up a branch for review to fix it
<lifeless> wallyworld__: I didn't say or suggest it was your fault.
<lifeless> wallyworld__: you seem to get a lot of the js work in your squad, I was making an educated guess about who would be likely to be scheduled onto this issue.
<wallyworld__> i should have included a :-)
<wallyworld__> np, sorry
<wallyworld__> i miss interpreted what siccing meant
<lifeless> no worries
<lifeless> sorry for the confusion
<wallyworld__> np, i only just woke up, so my brain is still fuzzy
<wallyworld__> although some might argue it never changes
 * wallyworld__ goes to buy a dictionary
<sinzui> wallyworld__ I think rich_h's changes to the privacy banner are the cause
<wallyworld__> sinzui: yes, my branch fixed those
<wallyworld__> landing now
 * sinzui awards wallyworld__ 5 gold stars âââââ
#launchpad 2012-09-28
<mark06> quite frank question, is Launchpad/Canonical/Ubuntu deteriorating?
<spm> http://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/loaded-question :-)
<mark06> you mean the answer would not be frank as well from official representatives?
<spm> mark06: are you honestly trying to play bingo with that list of fallacies and cross them all off?
<mark06> ah from the example is like I want that?
<mark06> no, I just thought that was for me
<mark06> honestly I would feel quite sad if things are not going so well
<mark06> I just received an email today about deactivation of hg import (well explained), and I remember I feel Ubuntu hasn't been so great since some time, but maybe it's just a feeling
<wgrant> Hg imports are being discontinued because bzr-hg isn't up to the standard of the other imports
<wgrant> There's a total of 43 hg imports that work, and hundreds that don't
<mark06> I also saw some project saying it was moving to github...
<mark06> I understand the reasons, I feel fine... I honestly hope things get better, Launchpad even without wikis is far superior than github imho
<mark06> and ubuntu made linux more popular, and bzr is nice
<mark06> I also saw an outdated why bzr over hg page, all this together made me wonder this... I sincerely can't get this dvcs flamewar...
<mark06> the hg folks said on a response page that Linus mentioned hg as the only alternative worth attention other than his git... so funny this Linuseligion
<mark06> ah sorry this is not my blog :(
<pef_> Hi! I'm trying to merge an (apparently autogenerated?) launchpad account into my main one
<pef_> because I want to use the register the email address as mine
<pef_> so I go through the merge process
<pef_> but when I click on the link in the email, I get an Oops ...
<wgrant> pef_: What's the OOPS ID?
<pef_> I tried it twice, here's one of them:  OOPS-e2f5d3b6769c012de049daf4a60c0941
<ubot5> https://oops.canonical.com/?oopsid=e2f5d3b6769c012de049daf4a60c0941
<pef_> thanks!
<wgrant> Let's see...
<pef_> but I never registered a patrick-farrell-imperial account (as far as I can remember)
<pef_> I have no idea how it came about, to be honest
<wgrant> https://launchpad.net/~patrick-farrell-imperial says it was used as the uploader or maintainer of an Ubuntu package, but with the name "The ICOM team"
<wgrant> Looks like that package was synced from Debian
<pef_> err
<pef_> I do make packages for our group
<pef_> but I'm pretty sure none of them ever got into Debian
<pef_> I would have noticed
<wgrant> Ah, maybe someone uploaded it to a PPA and that page is lying
<wgrant> Anyway, you've run into a bug. If you ask a question at https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+addquestion an admin can sort the merge out for you manually.
<pef_> you couldn't just add patrick.farrell@imperial.ac.uk to the email addresses for pefarrell, could you?
<pef_> that's my actual goal (so that I can send an email to a list)
<wgrant> No, but if you ask the question I can have that account merged in a few minutes.
<wgrant> Bug #1057947
<pef_> ok
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1057947 in Launchpad itself "LocationError: (None, 'name') when merging an account with a NEW email address" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1057947
<pef_> https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/209799
<pef_> thanks for launchpad, by the way, we love it
<wgrant> pef_: The merge is queued, should be finished in a couple of minutes.
<pef_> great, thanks
<wgrant> pef_: That's done. You'll now need to confirm the email address at https://launchpad.net/~/+editemails, and that should be that.
<pef_> great, all done
<wgrant> Indeed, looks good
* czajkowski changed the topic of #launchpad to: Reduced Builder capacity at present | Help contact: czajkowski | Launchpad is an open source project: https://dev.launchpad.net/ | This channel is logged: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | User Guide: https://help.launchpad.net/ | Support: https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad
<geser> wgrant: have you an idea what this logs tries to tell me? https://launchpadlibrarian.net/117613235/upload_4158616_log.txt
<wgrant> geser: Looks like a connectivity glitch when talking the librarian :/
<wgrant> A retry will work
<geser> ah, ok. I guess it's not worth doing a retry as it's from the archive rebuild
<lifeless> mgz: btw wherever you found the bot source code that handles oops links
<wgrant> It needs the OOPS- prefix?
<lifeless> mgz: it currently chews off the OOPS- prefix in generating the URL, it shouldn't.
<lifeless> mgz: there is backwards compat code to permit that, but I'd like to eventually ditch that.
<tsimpson> lifeless: what should the format be, exactly?
<lifeless> tsimpson: https://oops.canonical.com/oops/?oopsid=OOPS-ddb3a4e6e473461ac93b92604efcb918 is the canonical url for the oops =OOPS-ddb3a4e6e473461ac93b92604efcb918
<ubot5> https://oops.canonical.com/?oopsid=ddb3a4e6e473461ac93b92604efcb918
<lifeless> bah, miscopied the =
<lifeless> tsimpson: https://oops.canonical.com/oops/?oopsid=OOPS-ddb3a4e6e473461ac93b92604efcb918 is the canonical url for the oops OOPS-ddb3a4e6e473461ac93b92604efcb918
<lifeless> the OOPS regex lp uses is OOPS-.*\>
<tsimpson> so I just need to keep the OOPS- part, ok
<maxb> Wouldn't that regex match the string "OOPS-foo bar baz quux" ?
<ubot5> https://oops.canonical.com/?oopsid=foo
<lifeless> maxb: no, because \> matches end of word, in non-greedy
<lifeless> tsimpson: yes, I think so
<maxb> \> can change the greediness of the preceding * ?
<lifeless> maxb: no you can set greediness globally
<lifeless> maxb: I was being sloppy those
<lifeless> maxb: *though* - that isn't the exact regex we use
<lifeless> maxb: the exact one is phrase in terms of 0-9a-zA-Z kindof things
<tsimpson> testing OOPS-ddb3a4e6e473461ac93b92604efcb918 testing
<ubot5> https://oops.canonical.com/?oopsid=ddb3a4e6e473461ac93b92604efcb918
<tsimpson> oh, forgot to reload
<tsimpson> testing OOPS-ddb3a4e6e473461ac93b92604efcb918 testing
<ubot5> https://oops.canonical.com/?oopsid=OOPS-ddb3a4e6e473461ac93b92604efcb918
<tsimpson> there we go
<lifeless> tsimpson: thanks!
<tsimpson> you're welcome :)
<mgz> lifeless: oops.*/oops/?oopsid=OOPS=* is the canonical form? that seems oopsy
<lifeless> OOPS- not OOPS=
<mgz> sorry, right.
<mgz> so, I'm not sure it's clear you'll be looking at an oops when you visit that link ;)
<lifeless> well, its the right URL
<lifeless> its the one oops-tools itself emits in its reports
<lifeless> mgz: what makes it unclear ?
<mgz> lifeless, it's too clear :D
<lifeless> mgz: ah ok
<ItaloPessoa> hi
<ItaloPessoa> somebody could help me? when I try upload a pack to a ppa i go this message Uploading linkorganizer_1.0.3.dsc: 125 Data connection already open, starting transfer
* czajkowski changed the topic of #launchpad to: Reduced Builder capacity at present | Help contact:| Launchpad is an open source project: https://dev.launchpad.net/ | This channel is logged: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | User Guide: https://help.launchpad.net/ | Support: https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad
<czajkowski> c
<Darxus> How do I find out if the packaging for wayland / weston are in bzr on launchpad anywhere?
<dobey> Darxus: are they in the ubuntu archive?
<Darxus> dobey: Yes.
<Darxus> bzr: ERROR: bzrlib.errors.BzrCommandError: deb-version not fully expanded: {debversion}+{git-commit}. Valid substitutions are: ['{time}', '{date}', '{revno:packaging}', '{revno}', '{svn-revno:packaging}', '{svn-revno}', '{git-commit:packaging}', '{git-commit}', '{latest-tag:packaging}', '{latest-tag}', '{debversion:packaging}', '{debversion}', '{debupstream-base:packaging}', '{debupstream-base}', '{debupstream:packaging}', '{debupstream}', ...
<Darxus> ... '{revdate:packaging}', '{revdate}', '{revtime:packaging}', '{revtime}']
<Darxus> From https://launchpadlibrarian.net/117683014/buildlog.txt.gz
<Darxus> It says both "debversion" and "git-commit" are valid... why did that fail?
<yofel> can someone make sense of this FTBFS? https://launchpad.net/~scribus/+archive/ppa/+recipebuild/315603
<yofel> all I see as error is "Abort"
<Darxus> This works:
<Darxus> # bzr-builder format 0.3 deb-version {debversion}+{revno}
<Darxus> This fails:
<Darxus> # bzr-builder format 0.3 deb-version {debversion}+{git-commit}
<Darxus> :(
<Darxus> "You have exceeded today's quota for ubuntu quantal."
<Darxus> Wonderful.
<Darxus> Any ideas why {git-commit} is failing for me?  Base branch is https://code.launchpad.net/~ted/wayland/master "This branch is an import of the HEAD branch of the Git repository at git://anongit.freedesktop.org/wayland/wayland."  So, it is imported via git....
<Darxus> Recipe is https://code.launchpad.net/~darxus/+recipe/wayland-daily
<dobey> Darxus: i would avoid git-commit; it's basically completely useless as part of a version as it's not a constantly incrementing number. you could get a later git commit which sorts lower than an older one, for version comparison
<dobey> Darxus: for daily builds, i typically use {debupstream}+r{revno}-{revno:packaging} as the deb-version
<Darxus> dobey: I plan to keep the date in there, but I'd like to be able to look up what commit a build came from to see if, for example, it's before or after a fix for some problem.
<dobey> yofel: scroll up. there's an issue with the libtiff dependencies; looks like it wants both libtiff4-dev and libtiff5-dev, which conflict
<dobey> Darxus: which is exactly why i use +r{revno}; git using only hashes for everything makes this much harder to do of course
<yofel> dobey: meh, good catch, sorry for the noise and thanks!
<Darxus> dobey: I don't see what you have against those hashes, they can be used to look up commits in the git logs.
<dobey> Darxus: i don't have anything against them; but they are just hashes. they don't translate well to other things, like displaying to a user
<Darxus> Right, but if what you want is to find out where that build falls in the git commit log, they're what you want.
<dobey> right, but putting them in the package's version identifier isn't really a good way to do that
<dobey> for the reasons i already stated
<Darxus> I agree including other things before it is important, but why not tack it on to the end?
<dobey> why not just use the bzr revno, look at that revision in bzr, and it tells you the git commit id. it gives you the exact same information, and presents a more readable version to users
<Darxus> dobey: Because it saves a step.  But good point.
<dobey> Darxus: it doesn't really matter, you're not looking at subcommits from a merge or anything, you're only looking at specific toplevel revisions in the main branch. you can look at the change in bzr to see what's wrong and just fix it in the git repo if you can, if necessary. which is what i do with rhythmbox for example
#launchpad 2012-09-29
<ScottK> wgrant: \o/ - Is it possible we've seen the last of queue page timeouts?
<wgrant> ScottK: Hopefully. It's all cjwatson's good work, not mine, but I think all the accept timeouts should be fixed.
<ScottK> Yes, but you've battled with it enough over the years.
<wgrant> Indeed.
<a-l-e> i'm trying to create a PPA of scribus with indic support...
<a-l-e> i've taken the PPA for 1.5 and changed to match the new name (scribus-git-indic)
<a-l-e> now, i have to add the dependency to libicu...
<a-l-e> i've tried but i think i've failed...
<a-l-e> this is the error log
<a-l-e> absolute
<a-l-e> mm...
<a-l-e--> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/117684839/buildlog_ubuntu-precise-i386.scribus-git-indic_1.5.0svn.indic201209281900_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<a-l-e> which suggests that libicu is not find...
<a-l-e--> this is the control file as i have changed...
<a-l-e--> http://pastebin.com/6zr4KN5u
<tsimpson> a-l-e: you should run make with VERBOSE=1 to see what it's actually doing
<a-l-e> and how can i set the verbose option?
<tsimpson> make VERBOSE=1
<a-l-e> mmm...
<a-l-e> the error happens when i upload the sources to launchpad
<tsimpson> yes, but it's not showing the command (and more importantly the arguments) it's running, so it's hard to diagnose
<a-l-e> so: how can i change the options for make on launchpad?
<tsimpson> in your debian/rules
<a-l-e> ah :-)
<a-l-e> should i just add
<a-l-e> VERBOSE=1
<a-l-e> after
<a-l-e> DEBUG_FLAG=1
<a-l-e> ?
<tsimpson> maybe, try it and see ;)
<tsimpson> not sure if you have to export variables from debian/rules for make to get them
<tsimpson> #ubuntu-packaging can probably help you out
<a-l-e> ok
<a-l-e> but, basically, the question is how to correctly add a dependency to libicu...
<tsimpson> no, you don't know the question until you know why it failed
<a-l-e> or simply how can i find another package that depends on libicu and check  how it's included there
<tsimpson> which is why you want a verbose make, so you can see what it's trying, an failing, to do
<a-l-e> it's failing because it does not find libicu...
<tsimpson> you don't know that
<tsimpson> all you know is that, "upon linking there are undefined symbols"
<a-l-e> it's in the buildlog...
<tsimpson> you don't yet know if it's even trying to link to icu
<a-l-e--> /build/buildd/scribus-git-indic-1.5.0svn.indic201209281900/scribus/fonts/schbfunctions.cpp:94: undefined reference to `u_getIntPropertyValue_48'
<tsimpson> where's the linker command?
<tsimpson> where does it say what it's trying to link to?
<tsimpson> where does it say where it's searching for libraries?
<a-l-e> it's in the CMakeFiles
<tsimpson> you can't see the command it's actually trying to run, so you can't see why it's failing
<a-l-e> well, it's failing because it can't find libicu.
<tsimpson> prove it
<a-l-e> and i agree with you that i don't know why it's not finding it.
<tsimpson> show me where it's trying to link
<tsimpson> I see no "-licu"
<a-l-e> because libicu is defining `u_getIntPropertyValue_48
<tsimpson> you don't have enough information to to even say it's attempting to link to icu
<tsimpson> that's why you need the verbose mode
<a-l-e> no problem with trying the verbose mode...
<tsimpson> then you can actually see what's failing, and what the real question is
<a-l-e> but if somebody could tell me how to correctly add a dependency, i already could check that
<tsimpson> you do have build dependency on libicu-dev, that's already done
<a-l-e> ok
<a-l-e> finally, also the local build failed again at the same place...
<a-l-e> so i can test it locally
<tsimpson> then just run "make VERBOSE=1" locally and you can get more information
<a-l-e> (it works on my debian system, so i have to suppose that generally speaking the code works)
<a-l-e--> http://pastebin.com/AAijZdfE
<a-l-e> this is the result of make -VERBOSE
<a-l-e> i retry a fresh compile on debian...
<a-l-e> ok, i have to leave for a couple of hours...
<a-l-e> i will retry it later in the afternoon
<pkt__> something strange is going on with my ppa
<pkt__> germinate can't download Packages.bz2
<pkt__> while from the browser it works fine
<pkt__> could it be a user-agent-based block or something? (germinate uses urllib2)
<pkt__> scratch that report, it was probably something local here
<RobinJ> the stupid thing refuses my public key, which works fine for a different bzr branch....
<RobinJ> Permission denied (publickey).
<RobinJ> bzr: ERROR: Connection closed: Unexpected end of message. Please check connectivity and permissions, and report a bug if problems persist.
<RobinJ> are there some known server problems, or is this once again a bug
<RobinJ> ?
<lifeless> RobinJ1995: authentication happens before any branch info is examined, so if you key works for one LP branch it will work for them all.
<lifeless> RobinJ1995: yu may have the username in url on the working branch, or something like that
<lifeless> RobinJ1995: or it may be coincidence that it works for one and not the other, I see a report of intermittent issues, which I'll escalate
<lifeless> RobinJ1995: you could try again
#launchpad 2012-09-30
<mlankhorst> can I get a rebuild on https://launchpad.net/~mlankhorst/+archive/ppa/+build/3865568 ? xorg-server seems to have a chance of timing out on that command, didn't isolate yet why
<geser> don't you have a retry link on that page?
<mlankhorst> oh derp
<mlankhorst> forgot to log in
<mlankhorst> thanks
<a-l-e> mmm
<a-l-e> Unhandled exception processing upload: ale@ubuntu-dev is not a valid email address
<a-l-e> any idea where it gets that email address?
<a-l-e> ... so that i can fix it?
<a-l-e> ok, understood!
<a-l-e> i guess i can restart my upload :-(
<Darxus> "Unable to find sensors-applet_3.0.0.orig.tar.gz in upload or distribution."
<Darxus> Why isn't dput uploading the orig.tar.gz?
<geser> probably because you didn't tell it when build the source package (and the heuristic got it wrong)
<geser> debuild -S -sa (or dpkg-buildpackage -S -sa)
<Darxus> Thanks.
<Darxus> Yay, it uploaded it, thank you very much.
<kalxas> hi all, I am having trouble packaging a python module
<kalxas> can someone take a look at my rules file?
<kalxas> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~gcpp-kalxas/+junk/owslib/files
<kalxas> I have setup a bzr repository and I am using bzr dailydeb to build locally
<kalxas> the problem is that I am not sure setup.py is called automatically
<kalxas> since I don't see anything packaged in the final deb
<kalxas> and I am wondering what is wrong
<luisdaniel> hi
<hellfire> hey?
<hellfire> I wanted to take over maintiaining emerald for the time being, Any idea where to start on launchpad
<czajkowski> hellfire: you'll need to file a question on lP with all of the details https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+addquestion
<hellfire> oh?
#launchpad 2013-09-23
<tlonim> hi, is there a way to mass update bug statuses' I see https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/41702 but is there a script (based on lp api or so)
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 41702 in Launchpad itself "Allow mass changing of bugs' statuses" [Low,Triaged]
<saiarcot895> In my debian/control file, if I specify the condition << 2.12.0, then will 2.12.0~ get matched?
<smartboyhw> 2.12.0~ << 2.12.0
<smartboyhw> So yes
<geser> saiarcot895: dpkg --compare-versions 2.12.0~ \<\< 2.12.0 && echo yes || echo no
<saiarcot895> Thank you smartboyhw and geser
<CarlFK>  http://paste.ubuntu.com/6144043/   (good) at the bottom is   http://paste.ubuntu.com/6144043/plain/  which redirects to a funky launchpad login?
<CarlFK> not sure where/who I should be telling this to
<CarlFK> wget http://paste.ubuntu.com/6144043/plain/ ... HTTP request sent, awaiting response... 302 Found; Location: http://paste.ubuntu.com/openid/login?next=/6144043/plain/ [following]
<cjwatson> CarlFK: Yes, .../plain/ requires LP auth.
<cjwatson> CarlFK: My understanding is that before that was implemented there was a non-trivial amount of (IIRC) malware being distributed via paste.ubuntu.com
<CarlFK> oh neat...
<cjwatson> CarlFK: If you're logged in it's fine.
<CarlFK> cjwatson: https://launchpad.net/~carlfk  shows me logged in, but the paste.../plain is still redirecting me
<CarlFK> then I get the warning "Although this page is encrypted, the information you have entered is to be sent over an unencrypted connection and could easily be read by a third party."
<cjwatson> It may want you to log into each site
<cjwatson> (can't help further on this, sorry)
<CarlFK> is this the right #channel?
<cjwatson> Yes, but the primary developers are on .au time
<cjwatson> So patience is indicated
<CarlFK> k - thanks for your help
<ali1234> i'm having trouble with openid logins. it asks me what information to provide to the website but then when i click "yes" it doesn't redirect me back to the site i came in from. it just sends me to a blank page. is this a known issue or something on my end?
<ali1234> deleted my cookies and it works now
<ricotz> hi, chindi06 might be broken
<ricotz> might have been some hickup, looks like it works
<cjwatson> ricotz: What was the symptom?
<ricotz> cjwatson, it failed with a recognized chroot-problem
<cjwatson> ricotz: I don't see it in history, so I assume you gave it back
<cjwatson> ricotz: Some chroot problems are just unlucky timing with respect to archive changes, though; they don't all indicate broken builders
<ricotz> cjwatson, yeah, i retried the build
<ricotz> cjwatson, i see, that make sense
<ricotz> thanks and sorry for the noise ;)
<cjwatson> np
<bjf> is qastaging.launchpad.net down ?
<cjwatson> Probably; staging's weekend DB upgrade was taken out by a DC power outage and had to be restarted.
<bjf> cjwatson, ack, thanks
<bjf> cjwatson, who should i mention that to?
<cjwatson> bjf: Nobody, it's known
<bjf> cjwatson, ok
<cjwatson> (I'm just going by IRC scrollback in internal #launchpad-ops about 21 hours ago)
<bjf> cjwatson, thanks
#launchpad 2013-09-24
<excalibr> Say you have only *.debian.tar.gz, how do you generate those .dsc and .changes without running commands to build package?
<StevenK> .dsc is generated from an unpacked tree, you'll need an orig and the debian.tar.gz unpacked properly into it. debuild -S will then generate a .changes.
<zyga> hey, can launcpad PPAs host any code, including propretary stuff?
<saiarcot895> For proprietary code, you need a private PPA
<saiarcot895> *proprietary packages
<zyga> ok
<zyga> thanks
<zyga> how do I report violations?
<saiarcot895> Proprietary code, however, might be hosted on Launchpad, since you could set the visibility to private (although I'm not sure on this)
<saiarcot895> as for violations, I guess someone else here could help, or you could post a question on Launchpad
<zyga> I just posted this question: https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/236264
<saiarcot895> Scratch what I said earlier; see https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/230751
<zyga> ah
<zyga> thanks
<saiarcot895> I have a package that should provide a -dbg package. I'm using the dh auto commands and have override_dh_strip to tell it to place the debug symbols in the specified package. however, dh_strip isn't being called at runtime. Is this a bug?
<dobey> saiarcot895: #ubuntu-packaging, but you don't need to provide your own -dbg packages in ubuntu. dbgsym packages are automatically built already, and installable via the ddebs archive
<saiarcot895> I should have mentioned, this is for a PPA
<dobey> you can request to have dbgsym support enabled on your PPA then by asking a question at https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad
<saiarcot895> oh, nice
<cjwatson> or we could try to fix the problem, since it's weird nevertheless - do you have a build log?
<saiarcot895> will do
<saiarcot895> Build log: https://launchpadlibrarian.net/151337512/buildlog_ubuntu-saucy-amd64.flightgear_2.12.0-0ubuntu1~ppa1~saucy3_UPLOADING.txt.gz
<saiarcot895> rules file: http://paste.ubuntu.com/6150314/
<saiarcot895> I noticed that the simgear package (in the same PPA) got debug symbols, and the only difference was the debian/compat level, which was 8 in simgear and 9 here
<cjwatson> saiarcot895: your rules file is badly formatted
<cjwatson> saiarcot895: command lines such as the one starting dh_strip *MUST* begin with a tab character
<saiarcot895> cjwatson: I just noticed that
<cjwatson> not four spaces masquerading as a tab in your editor or anything else, a literal ASCII tab
<tlonim> is there a maintenance going on? I am getting client timeout (of 300s) with a fresh bzr branch
<cjwatson> tlonim: No maintenance I'm aware of
<tlonim> cjwatson: I am getting https://gist.github.com/cbd155d6d90c09f74be7 .. any way around it
<cjwatson> tlonim: it at least starts branching fine for me - I have a fairly slow connection so I'm not going to wait for the whole thing to finish, but I get a progress indicator
<cjwatson> maybe a local network difficulty?
<tlonim> checking
<mapreri> can someone tell me why this build is waiting? https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/dump/0.4b44-4/+build/5039990 the sync was made 2 days ago...
<cjwatson> mapreri: arm64 is still being bootstrapped
<cjwatson> mapreri: You shouldn't expect anything on arm64 to build for a while
<cjwatson> mapreri: But I somehow doubt you were actually looking for arm64 ...
<cjwatson> mapreri: Ah, your own sync; well, you'll just have to wait, it doesn't block anything for you unless you're one of the handful of people caring specifically about arm64 at the moment
<cjwatson> mapreri: Don't worry, it's not a problem with your package
<mapreri> cjwatson: ah, ok. I'm only wondering why it's waiting. It's the first time I see an arm64 build, I'm curios if the build ends fine :)
<cjwatson> mapreri: We're waiting for a new kernel for our buildds so that it stops randomly segfaulting in the middle of compiler builds
<cjwatson> ... don't hold your breath *too* much
<mapreri> cjwatson: don't worry, I used to "keep calm and keep packaging" :D
<karlicoss> Hi guys. Could you tell me, what does "3:" in the version number mean there? https://launchpadlibrarian.net/127144064/mc_4.8.7-0~eugenesan~raring1_source.changes
<cjwatson> karlicoss: epoch, see http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-controlfields.html#s-f-Version
<karlicoss> cjwatson: thanks!
<mattw> I've uploaded a source package that requires ia32-libs to a ppa and tried to build for 64-bit precise. The build can't begin due to an uninstallable ia32-libs-multiarch which I've encountered on my own machine and fixed without issue before (usually a broken package), but I don't know what to do in this situation.
#launchpad 2013-09-25
<mattyw> I'm getting this error when trying to merge using tarmac, anyone able to decipher what it means? I happens during merging  An error occurred trying to merge lp:omnibus: Server sent an unexpected error: ('error', 'GhostRevisionsHaveNoRevno', 'Could not determine revno for {tarmac-20130920124448-xy09s3vt07s0czag} because its ancestry shows a ghost at {tarmac-20130920124448-xy09s3vt07s0czag}')
<jpds> mattyw: That's a bzr error: http://wiki.bazaar.canonical.com/GhostRevision
<mattyw> jpds, thanks for the link, we've been happily merging for months, just suddenly started
<pierrevr> Hi, I haven't been on launchpad for a while, and after trying to connect I clicked on the lost password option. I have tried all 3 of my e-mails (as well as the one on which I still receive e-mails from Launchpad) and each of them results in "This email address is however not associated with any Launchpad Login Service..."
<pierrevr> I might have used another one, but that doesn't exist anymore.
<pierrevr> Any suggestions?
<pierrevr> Help on this would be greatly appreciated! :)
<pierrevr> Thank you.
<wgrant> pierrevr: You'll see a support link at the bottom of the login form. Can you file a ticket there, mentioning possible email addresses?
<wgrant> pierrevr: I see an account that's possibly yours with the OpenID identifier 'mfJCFcP'.
<pierrevr> wgrant: I'm not sure what that identifier means. I will, however, fill out the support form right away.
<wgrant> pierrevr: It may be useful to the SSO support staff.
<pierrevr> Okay! Thanks
 * czajkowski glares at wgrant 
<smoser> hm..
<smoser> help maybe ?
<smoser> (looking for my question)
<smoser> i'm using ubuntu-archive-tools. and trying to read a changes file from a private ppa.
<smoser> opener = lpl_common.opener_with_cookie(cookies)
<smoser> opener.open(myurl)
<smoser> that is returning 404
<smoser> but 'myurl' is fine when loaded in browser
<smoser> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-cloud-archive-private/+archive/cloud-tools-proposed/+files/cloud-utils_0.27-0ubuntu~ctools0_source.changes
<smoser> oh. odd. no its not.
<smoser> it was.
<smoser> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-cloud-archive-private/+archive/cloud-tools-proposed/+files/cloud-utils_0.27-0ubuntu4%7Ectools0_source.changes
<smoser> it sure seems like its auth related. as 'wget myurl' is returning 404 also.
<smoser> ok. good. i just had a bad cookie.
<davmor2> czajkowski: why you glare at wgrant like dat you know it's all your fault :P
#launchpad 2013-09-26
<Terry_Guo> Hi there, I want to enable my ppa for armhf, but the build will take 10+ hours. can I do this? Thanks.
<czajkowski> davmor2: it's never my fault any more :)
<czajkowski> Terry_Guo: no it needs to be under 4 hrs
<psusi> so.. apport removes the original core dump once it retraces it... how can I pry it out of launchpadlib?  the stack trace just isn't enough, I need to poke around the core a bit
<dobey> i don't think you can
<psusi> is there someone here with god powers who can? ;)
<cjwatson> pretty sure it's actually DELETEd from the db
<cjwatson> IIRC you need to get apport not to retrace that next time, and wait for another report.  ask pitti/bdmurray
<dobey> yeah, afaik, deleted attachments are gone for good
<psusi> you sure?  it feels like it works the way private bugs do... no subscription, no access
<psusi> the bug link redirects you to some restricted url with a magic cookie
<cjwatson> if you have a link I can take a look
<cjwatson> (to the bug)
<psusi> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1231288/+attachment/3841761/+files/CoreDump.gz
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1205815 in gparted (Ubuntu) "duplicate for #1231288 g_main_dispatch: assertion failed: (current->dispatching_sources == &current_source_link)" [Medium,Confirmed]
<cjwatson> I see no redirect
<cjwatson> That's just a plain "no such object"
<psusi> also one of the dups had its core dump removed and no full stack trace done and was marked as a dup... but based on the limited stacktracetop, it isn't a dup
<psusi> right... you don't get the redirect because the file has been removed from the report...
<cjwatson> for that you will have to ask apport people
<psusi> click on the stacktracetop and you get a redirect
<cjwatson> it's not part of Launchpad
<cjwatson> psusi: there's no stacktracetop in bug 1205815 ...
<ubot5> bug 1205815 in gparted (Ubuntu) "g_main_dispatch: assertion failed: (current->dispatching_sources == &current_source_link)" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1205815
<psusi> err, ThreadStacktrace
<cjwatson> apart from the plain-text mention in the description
<cjwatson> ditto
<cjwatson> I bet if you reload in a different tab you'll find it's not there
<psusi> ohh, the redirect seems to be different now that I made the report public... it had restricted in the hostname or something before
<psusi> and a cookie as a & parameter
<cjwatson> private objects tend to be in the restricted librarian, yes.  but in this case, it's inaccessible because it's been deleted (by apport-retrace), not because of any privacy setting.
<psusi> is there somewhere the apport people hang out?
<cjwatson> (at least I believe so.)
<cjwatson> psusi: #ubuntu-devel - I already suggested talking to pitti
<cjwatson> can't find the deletion code in the retracer right now.  hopefully I'm not misremembering.
<cjwatson> (in a meeting)
<cjwatson> oh yes, found it
<cjwatson>                 if a.title == 'CoreDump.gz':
<cjwatson>                     try:
<cjwatson>                         a.removeFromBug()
<cjwatson> which deletes the LFC reference immediately
<psusi> right... removes the reference from the bug report... but it is still burried somewhere in the librarian right?  just no reference to it any more
<cjwatson> it is I suppose possible that it hasn't been GCed yet, but since it's private you can only get at it through the webapp, and the webapp isn't going to let anyone have it since it isn't referenced from anywhere with any sharing enabled ...
 * psusi misses the old netware salvage utility... find those unlinked files and recover those babies
<cjwatson> wgrant might know if there's a way, but my suspicion is that you're out of luck
<cjwatson> but, removed at 07:39, and librarian-gc runs at 10:15
<cjwatson> I suspect it's already eaten your lunch
<kirkland> is there any way to post something at the top of my projects' Answer pages that says "Please stop asking questions here and go to AskUbuntu!" ?
<smartboyhw> kirkland, wow, what happened?
<smartboyhw> (/me thinks you can only make it in the description of your project, BTW0
<kirkland> Hmm, okay, looks like I can disable answers... I really just want to leave a symlink to the other location
<dpm> hi all, would anyone know what this error coming from a package on the core apps PPA could be? It seems the amd64 and i386 builds succeeded, but the armhf one had a chroot problem? -> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/6159236/
<dobey> dpm: try to rebuild the failed arm build. looks like it was a problem setting up the chroot
<dpm> thanks dobey, will give that a go
<cjwatson> dpm: IS has fixed the failure and I'm mass-retrying everything affected now.
<dpm> thanks cjwatson
<harlowja> a qq for any launchpad experts if anyone is around
<harlowja> is there a way to have a blueprint in launchpad span multiple projects?
<lifeless> harlowja: no
<harlowja> durn
#launchpad 2013-09-27
<Corey>   Uploading salt_0.17.0-1lucid.dsc: [Errno 110] Connection timed out
<Corey> Why do I wrestle and struggle with dput every time I have to shove something into a PPA, I wonder? :-)
<mgriffin> Is there by chance a way to see a list of PPAs which exist for a given series? https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+ppas
<mgriffin> eg http://dl.fedoraproject.org/pub/epel/6/x86_64/repoview/
<mgriffin> (epel is somewhat like ppa but for centos)
<mgriffin> say i was looking for rsandbox https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+ppas?name_filter=rsandbox and want to know which series is supported by the ppa
#launchpad 2013-09-28
<Waka_Flocka> how can i change my launchpad ID?
<wgrant> Waka_Flocka: https://launchpad.net/~/+edit
<Waka_Flocka> ok
<Waka_Flocka> thanks wgrant
<AlbertJB> hello, one question, how can I change my account password? I'm logged in but no option to change the passw
<AlbertJB> maybe it's because I'm no longer an active member?
<tsimpson> AlbertJB: https://launchpad.net/launchpad/+faq/51
<tsimpson> (you need to go to https://login.launchpad.net/ )
<AlbertJB> yes thanks but it's no that easy
<AlbertJB> ok I had to reset the passw via Forget your passw and email
<AlbertJB> thanks
<Caesar_> Hello i need some quick help
<Caesar_> i think i might have been hacked
<Caesar_> allready formated but he came back
<cjwatson> Formatted?  Are you sure this involves Launchpad?
<Caesar_> i don't know.. this is what i found online for help
<Caesar_> might you direct me to where i can go?
<cjwatson> I'm not sure.  While I sympathise, unless it involves launchpad.net, I don't think we can help you
<Caesar_> it don't from the start no,
<cjwatson> If it does involve launchpad.net, we'd need a bit more information
<Caesar_> where could i turn?
<cjwatson> I honestly don't know, I'm afraid
#launchpad 2013-09-29
<pi-rho> bazaar.launchpad.net is throwing code 503
<wgrant> pi-rho: It's working fine for me. What's the URL that's not working?
<pi-rho> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/saucy/libewf/saucy/files
<pi-rho> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~pi-rho/+junk/libbfio-debian/files
<pi-rho> and its back!
<wgrant> Is it still broken?
<pi-rho> :) sorry wgrant ... I was hoping to report an issue early, not nag
<pi-rho> all of the repos I was trying to get to apear to be working fine now
<wgrant> Hm
<wgrant> It's around logrotate time, so maybe something went wrong there, but autorecovered.
<wgrant> Thanks for letting us know.
<wgrant> Will investigate.
<pi-rho> np. Thank you for all the hard work
<odraencode> Hey, I accidentally created a project instead of a PPA
<odraencode> Is there a way to delete it?
<wgrant> odraencode: An admin can do that for you if you request it at https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+addquestion
<odraencode> wgrant: thanks
<milki> does git-send-email work with launchpad email?
<wgrant> milki: I'm not quite sure what you mean.
<wgrant> What Launchpad email?
<milki> if i respond to en email thread from email notifications on a bug
<milki> i want to attach git commit patches faster than just through the web interface
<milki> since that only allows individual emails
<milki> er, individual attachments
<wgrant> Emailing an attachment should generally work.
<milki> hm
<milki> maybe i need to format-patch --attach
<milki> i cant tell if my emails made it to launchpad
<milki> -.-
 * milki tries again
 * milki waits another 15 minutes
<wgrant> 15 minutes?
<wgrant> Emails are processed roughly every 2 minutes
<milki> o, then if i dont see anything, then ill just give up
<wgrant> You don't see them at all?
<milki> the first batch didnt result in any changes to the bug
<milki> im trying a with the patches as attechments
<milki> it could be just outgoing mail isnt setup properly on the server
<wgrant> It seems more likely that your outgoing mail isn't working.
<milki> o, no, i got my test email
<milki> so thats not a problem
<wgrant> What's the sender domain?
<milki> o
<milki> that might be an issue if im grey/blacklisted
<milki> aha
<wgrant> You shouldn't be.
<milki> its from my own vps
<milki> cibo.ircmylife.com
<milki> i dont have incoming setup
<milki> so it probably fails that check
<wgrant> What is the address it's sending from?
<milki> mFrom: milki <milki@rescomp.berkeley.edu>
<milki> o
<milki> it doesnt match
<wgrant> Is that address associated with your Launchpad account?
<milki> yes
<wgrant> I don't see any emails from that address.
<milki> ya, its probably dropped due to mailserver checks
<milki> hmm
<milki> i need to find another server then to try this on
<wgrant> You don't have a smarthost that you can use?
 * milki doesnt know enough about email to understand what that means
<milki> ive never successfully setup a complete mailserver >.>
<wgrant> A smarthost is an intermediate relay.
<milki> this is what send-mail says: https://dpaste.de/stsk
<milki> i dont have a smarthost setup
<milki> but i probably have one avaialble that i dont know how to use
<milki> ya, i probably dont have a setup for git send-mail to work properly
 * milki gives up
<milki> wgrant: https://bugs.launchpad.net/dulwich/+bug/1232619
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1232619 in Dulwich "Support for graftpoints" [Undecided,New]
<milki> half of them made it
<milki> o.O
<milki> tries the mailing list too
<milki> wgrant: https://lists.launchpad.net/dulwich-users/msg00776.html
<milki> worked immediately but some patches are missing
<wgrant> milki: Were they sent from a host with reasonable mail deliverability?
<milki> i think these were from the batch send from an internal server at $work
<milki> so the host itself doesnt get deliverable mail, but it can send
<odraencode> What... what is a PPA like?
#launchpad 2014-09-22
<__marco> Hi! The launchpad's building system is really useful
<__marco> Thanks for that
<ulrichard_> The original tarball of a package changed, and even after deleting the package from my ppa, my new upload is rejected, stating the orig.tar.gz already exists and is different.
<wgrant> ulrichard_: You need to change the version.
<wgrant> ulrichard_: (how did the orig tarball change? by definition that's impossible.)
<ulrichard_> The upstream author removed some hidden files that slipped in on his mac.
<wgrant> Without changing the version? :/
<wgrant> That's unfortunate.
<ulrichard_> yes
<wgrant> So, I'd rename the tarball to something like somepkg_1.0+repack1.orig.tar.gz, and add +repack1 to the upstream version in the changelog.
<ulrichard_> ok, I'll try that. Thanks for the idea
<ulrichard_> wgrant: yes, that worked
#launchpad 2014-09-23
<robbe> hello
<robbe> are ppa for ubuntu only?
<ScottK> Yes
<robbe> thx
<robbe> i see
<robbe> bye
 * mpt is delighted to discover that <https://code.launchpad.net/~/+activereviews> exists
<titansmc> Hi all, I am here to ask some questions about uploading packages to my ppa. What I am trying to do is a backport of an application that comes with ubuntu 14.04 to 12.04. So I've tried with different procedures but not sure which I should follow, no one has worked. What I am doing it is
<titansmc> root@samaruc:~# backportpackage -k D9ADF82B -s trusty -d precise -u ppa:ic3/standard-ws-precise-ppa vlc
<titansmc> But when it gets uploaded to the ppa it complains about a library which is not on 12.04, and has happened with other packages is that when I try to compile this lib, it is missing another one, so I end up on having a huge tree which is impossible to sustain
<titansmc> what would the best procedure be?
<cjwatson> you have to figure out where to break the chain, and that's a judgement call; if the library in question is essential to the functionality of the thing you're trying to backport, then backport it too, otherwise find your scalpel and excise it
<cjwatson> I don't see why opus should be difficult to backport; it has only a handful of build-dependencies, all of which are available in precise
<cjwatson> I would suggest just backporting it in the same way
<cjwatson> then you can retry the vlc builds, assuming that works
<cjwatson> (actually they should auto-retry)
<titansmc> alright, so that's what I am gonna do, I am going to try it
<titansmc> but I think the problem will come with packages like libreoffice with a lot of dependences unmet.... even though  I see people that has backported it
<cjwatson> titansmc: well, if somebody else has already backported something, you should probably just copy their backported packages rather than wasting time duplicating work
<cjwatson> sure, the more complex a package's dependency chain is, the harder it may well be to backport
<titansmc> mm, good point,
<cjwatson> that's a consequence of code reuse
<cjwatson> you can even copy the built binaries from somebody else's PPA along with the sources, if that's appropriate
<titansmc> first I was trying to put all the effort on learning how this works and try to build my own packages, but I will probable end up coping those backported packages
<cjwatson> titansmc: in any case, I have confirmed locally that the latest version of opus builds without modifications on precise, so backporting that should be sufficient for vlc
<titansmc> oh, that's good, I appreciate it
<titansmc> thank you
<titansmc> would you mind to send me some link to get started with building packages for PPA and this stuff? I am not able to find so much information on the net
<cjwatson> titansmc: https://help.launchpad.net/Packaging/PPA
<titansmc> thanks
<titansmc> cjwatson: however I am done for today, thanks a lot
<cjwatson> titansmc: np
#launchpad 2014-09-24
<stokachu> whats the format for the code import to clone a specific git branch?
<cjwatson> stokachu: see https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/1000852
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1000852 in Launchpad itself "Importing a non-master git branch is unobvious" [Low,Triaged]
<stokachu> cjwatson, ah awesome, thank you just what i needed
<mwhudson> how frequently does the ppa publisher run?
<mwhudson> */5 ?
<wgrant> mwhudson: Every 5-10 minutes, depending on how long it takes.
<mwhudson> wgrant: ta
#launchpad 2014-09-25
<Aaron> hi
<Aaron> can anyone help me?
<wgrant> Aaron: What do you need help with?
<Aaron> yeah wgrant
<Aaron> for example my launchpad user name is TimiDo, i want it to be Aaron is there any way i can ask for the account my self?
<Aaron> and link it to this one?
<wgrant> Have you contacted the Launchpad user that currently holds that name?
<Aaron> yes
<Aaron> and no answers
<Aaron> i been trying to reach him for years,
<wgrant> How long ago?
<Aaron> and he's not an active member
<Aaron> a few months, more than 4 months
<Aaron> that user is useless
<Aaron> he does not even collaborate
<wgrant> Ask at https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+addquestion and someone should be able to sort it out for you.
<Aaron> i just did
<Aaron> that
<Aaron> Question #254987
#launchpad 2014-09-26
<StevenK> wgrant: Huh, can you not see previous members of restricted teams now?
<wgrant> StevenK: Only team admins can see former members. That changed around 2010.
<shijing> @wgrant In launchpad, some bugs Comment contains advertising information, Can you help me to handle it?
<shijing> eg. bug 1307351 #4 comment.
<ubot5> bug 1307351 in Ubuntu Kylin "fcitxè¾å¥æ³-éç½®åæ­¥--åæ­¥ä¸ä¼  &ä¸è½½æç¤ºä¿¡æ¯ä¸åå" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1307351
<wgrant> shijing: Hm, this isn't normal spam, since the comments quote emails that we sent to the user. So their email account is compromised or they are sending it themselves. I'll suspend their account and remove the comments.
<shijing> wgrant: thanks wgrant.  He didn't reply to a message before it.  so I think suspend their account and remove the comments is right.
<wgrant> shijing: They're all gone. Thanks for letting us know.
<rajreddy> Hi folks, does anyone know if it's possible to keep multiple versions of packages for the same series on launchpad PPAs?
<rajreddy> I searched and found https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/171452
<rajreddy> which says it's not possible, but wanted to see what others in the same situations are doing..
<mapreri> afaik, no
<rajreddy> @mapreri thanks
<dobey> rajreddy: you can have multiple PPAs, if you want stable/beta/daily versions of packages all shipped, for example
<dobey> rajreddy: you cannot upload multiple versions of the same package to the same PPA, though
<dobey> (for the same series)
<rajreddy> @dobey thanks..
#launchpad 2014-09-27
<txgg06> hello
<txgg06> I have a quick question on acceptable uses of launchpad
#launchpad 2015-09-21
<wulfgarpro> why do i get permission denied when i've updated my ssh pub key?
<wulfgarpro> im running bzr branch ubuntu:xscreensaver
<wulfgarpro> and i get: Permission denied (publickey).
<wulfgarpro> i've verified my public key and it's fine
<wgrant> wulfgarpro: What's your Launchpad username?
<wulfgarpro> wulfgar-pro
<wgrant> Ah, your key is corrupt.
<wgrant> https://launchpad.net/~wulfgar-pro/+sshkeys
<wgrant> It's full of spaces.
<wgrant> Those shouldn't be there.
<wulfgarpro> ah shit
<wgrant> The only spaces should be after "ssh-rsa" and before "james@wulfgar-lt"
<wgrant> As it is now, everything from "8cF9" is considered to be part of the key description.
<wulfgarpro> clip to the rescue
<wgrant> :)
<wulfgarpro> thanks wgrant
<wgrant> np
<quazimodo> is it just me or is it nearly impossible to undrestand how to quickly go from making .deb's to making ppa 'things' that i cat apt-get install
<cjwatson> Making debs involves making a source package.  If you can do that then sticking it in a PPA is a matter of https://help.launchpad.net/Packaging/PPA/Uploading
<cjwatson> (If you're not making debs by way of a source package, you're doing it wrong!)
<rbasak> "https://code.launchpad.net/~OWNER/DISTRIBUTION/+source/SOURCE/+git/REPOSITORY This identifies a repository for a source package in a distribution.
<rbasak> "
<rbasak> Can I use this today for packaging work?
<rbasak> I understand I'll need to upload normally, but I'd like somewhere to put some shared docker.io packaging work that I'm handling in git.
<rbasak> The root commit is imported from the archive manually (so doesn't represent true history)
<rbasak> So lp:~ubuntu-server/ubuntu/+source/docker.io/+git/packaging perhaps?
<cjwatson> Yes, you can use it today
<rbasak> Sounds good, thanks.
<cjwatson> The main piece of package repositories that doesn't work yet is that there's no way to designate a default repository (i.e. lp:ubuntu/+source/SOURCE)
<cjwatson> We're holding off on that until we have something that can reasonably work for all packages, which will probably be dgit ior similar
<rbasak> OK
<cjwatson> *or similar
<wulfgarpro> im new to lp, how do bugs get "closed"
<wulfgarpro> ?
<wgrant> wulfgarpro: Usually by setting the status to "Fix Released", "Invalid" or "Won't Fix"
<wulfgarpro> im new to lp, how do bugs get "closed"
<wgrant> wulfgarpro: Usually by setting the status to "Fix Released", "Invalid" or "Won't Fix"
<lifeless> groundhog!
#launchpad 2015-09-22
<wulfgarpro> wgrant: i've set it to "Invalid" but it's still open in a sense
<cjwatson> Invalid isn't open.
<cjwatson> In what sense are you perceiving it as open?
<wulfgarpro> cjwatson: well I can see it in the list of bugs marked as invalid
<cjwatson> Yes, not open doesn't mean deleted.
<cjwatson> That's expected.
<wulfgarpro> cjwatson: so that's closed
<wulfgarpro> cjwatson: ok
<wulfgarpro> how do I filter the bugs I can see by project?
<cjwatson> https://bugs.launchpad.net/PROJECT/+bugs
<cjwatson> for appropriate values of PROJECT
<wulfgarpro> cjwatson: great, thanks
<wulfgarpro> is it possible to delete comments you make?
<wgrant> wulfgarpro: You'll see a Hide link, which makes the comment invisible to everyone except you and admins.
<wulfgarpro> wgrant: thanks :)
<karni> Is there a way for me to request another import of translations with launchpad? I used the one-time import, but now I've added more translated .po files, and would like to re-do it. (After I commited it, I also changed import pocliy to import both pot and po files, hoping lp would pick it up)
<balloons> Does anyone understand what this message means "This team cannot be converted to Public since it is referenced by an usertouseremail." I'm trying to convert a private team to public, but running into this error
<cjwatson> I think that means you should file a bug
<cjwatson> We don't allow changing visibility in cases where there's a reference somewhere else that would risk leaking private team membership information
<cjwatson> But the fact that somebody has once used the "contact this team's admins" facility surely doesn't do that
<balloons> cjwatson, mmm. So I'm a bit stuck then
<balloons> I can definitely file the bug. Sounds like if I want a public team now though, I'll need to create a new one? What I'm really after is a public ppa from the current team
<balloons> which, since the team is private, doesn't seem to be possible
<cjwatson> Is it today-urgent?  We could fix such a bug reasonably quickly
<cjwatson> As in a couple of days
<balloons> yea, I kind of need to keep moving on this. Hmm
<cjwatson> If you need a public team absolutely right now then you're stuck unless you create a new one
<balloons> https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/1498497
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1498497 in Launchpad itself "This team cannot be converted to Public since it is referenced by an usertouseremail" [Undecided,New]
<balloons> I'll make / use a public team in the interim. thanks for the help
<cjwatson> balloons: What team name was this, BTW?  (in /msg if you want)  This is an interestingly obscure corner case
<cjwatson> balloons: I can't find a way to reproduce this in the test suite without making the team in question be a member of another team, which independently blocks visibility changes (even if the membership has been deactivated)
<cjwatson> But maybe I'm missing something ...
<balloons> hopefully the specific team will help. But I have gone ahead and used another public team, so I don't need to make this work anymore
<balloons> it is a weird bug, as I don't suspect there's anything really private about the team as-is. It was private for benign reasons
<cjwatson> balloons: all right, hopefully https://code.launchpad.net/~cjwatson/launchpad/visibility-usertouseremail/+merge/271997 will pass muster
<balloons> cjwatson, awesome, thanks ;-)
#launchpad 2015-09-23
<Laney> Does the suite override by upload target work for the main archive or only PPAs?
<cjwatson> Both
<cjwatson>     Current paths are:
<cjwatson>       /<distro>[/suite] - any primary archive
<cjwatson>       /~<person>/<distro>/<ppa>[/suite] - any PPA
<Laney> Hm
<rbasak> Can I have some hand-holding in getting a PPA enabled for all architectures please?
<rbasak> kickinz1 is doing some work on Docker, and it includes backporting dependencies and different behaviour on different architectures, so we'd like to use a PPA that has all archs - so devirt I presume.
<rbasak> I can't remember exactly all the restrictions I think are necessary for a team to be able to have a PPA that can do that.
<rbasak> Is https://launchpad.net/~canonical-server suitable?
<rbasak> It's Canonical-only, a Restricted Team, and has direct memberships only.
<rbasak> We want armhf, ppc64el and arm64.
<cjwatson> rbasak: It must have only Canonical uploaders; that team sounds fine.  File a request on https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad for it
<cjwatson> (powerpc as well?)
<rbasak> cjwatson: thanks. I'll get the PPA created first (I'm not an admin) and then I'll request it.
<rbasak> I guess powerpc as well would be helpful too
#launchpad 2015-09-24
<rbasak> wgrant: thank you!
<wgrant> rbasak: np
<Odd_Bloke> cjwatson: If it will make a difference (I'm not sure if all the builders are going to come back all at once and build everything in the queue anyway), please could you bump the priority on https://launchpad.net/~daniel-thewatkins/+livefs/ubuntu/wily/cpc/+build/38783 for me?
<cjwatson> Odd_Bloke: Shouldn't be needed, they're all coming back now
<cjwatson> This architecture is really good at making lots of stuff fail at once; OTOH it's also pretty good at bringing everything back at once
<Odd_Bloke> If you're going to do something, do it with style.
<cjwatson> Odd_Bloke: building for you now
<Odd_Bloke> Thanks!
<cjwatson> Odd_Bloke: Ooh, that appears to have worked.
<trash> hi, is there a way to make a mailinglist public? by default only team members can subscribe.
<cjwatson> + dd if=binary/boot/filesystem.ext4 of=/dev/mapper/loop0p1
<cjwatson> 1894400+0 records in
<cjwatson> 1894400+0 records out
<cjwatson> 969932800 bytes (970 MB) copied, 16.145 s, 60.1 MB/s
<Odd_Bloke> cjwatson: It does, yeah.
<Odd_Bloke> "disk size: 261M" from 'qemu-img info' is also a good sign.
<cjwatson> trash: The only way to do that is to make a team that anyone can join and have that team own the mailing list.
<Odd_Bloke> I'll have a poke at the actual output after lunch, but this is definitely looking good.
<cjwatson> (as far as I know)
<trash> cjwatson: okay, thanks. Then I'll need to use another solution.
<Odd_Bloke> cjwatson: That image output looks fine! \o/
<cjwatson> Odd_Bloke: Hooray!  Anything else blocking you?
<Odd_Bloke> Nope, just need to keep on chugging through the different output bits we do.
<cjwatson> Excellent.  You can race the ppc64el scalingstack redeploy ...
<wgrant> Ooh, fancy.
<nickoe> Hello.
<nickoe> What is the url for the sandbox version of lanuchad?
<nickoe> *launchpad
<teward> I think it's staging.launchpad.net but don't quote me on that
<cjwatson> There are a few
<cjwatson> staging is one, qastaging.launchpad.net is also relevant
<cjwatson> For most purposes you can use either
<cjwatson> They differ in things like exactly what revision of code they're running and when their DB is updated
<teward>  right
<teward> cjwatson: testing API-based calls to make sure my script(s) work the way they need to is still OK to point at qastaging or staging, especially if I want to double check, right?  (I did this for the mass-closing of Karmic bugs that were on my radars, in a plugin, but want to confirm still xD)
<cjwatson> teward: yes, that's absolutely fine, that's one of the things they're for
#launchpad 2015-09-25
<benji> I assume people other than myself received a message about PyPI's phasing out of external packages and LP-owned packages that are affected.
<cjwatson> benji: I had a few.  Do you have the full list of packages you received messages about?
<benji> cjwatson: sure, one sec
<benji> cjwatson: lazr.restful wadllib launchpadlib lazr.restfulclient lazr.batchnavigator
<cjwatson> right, I had   lazr.lifecycle lazr.batchnavigator lazr.restful launchpadlib
<cjwatson> wgrant: should have got lazr.restfulclient and wadllib as well
<wgrant> cjwatson: Yep, got all of those, haven't dealt with them yet though.
#launchpad 2015-09-26
<CarlFK> I want to package https://github.com/makestuff/flcli  and put it on my PPA.   it builds some libs.  it's Makefile ...  need to do "make deps" and there is no install section.
<CarlFK> what dh-helper thingy should I start with ?
<CarlFK> hmm.. make does seem to make it after all...
<cjwatson> Just use ordinary debhelper (dh(1) for preference), and if dh_auto_build doesn't do it by itself then write an override_dh_auto_build rule in debian/rules.
<cjwatson> Or dh_auto_install / override_dh_auto_install respectively.
<cjwatson> "make deps" is pretty retro anyway.
<CarlFK> cjwatson: thanks.
<cousin_luigi> Greetings.
<cousin_luigi> Pardon my ignorance, but where do I find the source for a PPA package? I mean, whatever specfiles are called in deb land.
<dobey> in the PPA it came from
<CarlFK> cousin_luigi: yeah, that.   what ppa/package ?
<cousin_luigi> CarlFK: I'm in there, but I can't locate it. ppa:vovoid/vsxu
<CarlFK> cousin_luigi: are you looking to apt-get it or find it like https://launchpad.net/~vovoid/+archive/ubuntu/vsxu-release/+files/vsxu_0.5.1-0%7E201412151352%7Eubuntu14.10.1.tar.xz
<CarlFK> https://launchpad.net/~vovoid/+archive/ubuntu/vsxu-release/+packages  (and expand the one you want )
<cousin_luigi> CarlFK: Oh, I had missed the debian folder
<cousin_luigi> CarlFK: Which file does contain the build dependencies?
<CarlFK> cousin_luigi: control
<CarlFK>   5 Build-Depends: debhelper (>= 9), python, dh-exec
<cousin_luigi> oh right, thanks
<cousin_luigi> I'm really tired tonight:)
<CarlFK> meh, no need to anything.  I don't know most of this stuff and I am awake
<CarlFK> you got lucky and asked some of the few things I can help with
<cousin_luigi> CarlFK: Well, I had looked inside debian/control and missed it. If I'm not tired then I'm dumb:)
<cousin_luigi> But alas it didn't help. It must be something else I'm missing. Thanks everyone.
<cousin_luigi> bbl
<TJ-> Is there a bug attachment maximum size? Having errors uploading 407KB tar.gz to bug #1500110
<ubot5> bug 1500110 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "15.10: mount point /tmp/tmp.${RANDOM}/var does not exist" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1500110
<TJ-> Resolved; file was accepted after a few more attempts
#launchpad 2015-09-27
<sidi> Just got Unable to negotiate with 91.189.95.84: no matching key exchange method found. Their offer: diffie-hellman-group1-sha1 when trying to push to my LP repo (just updated my SSH client). Are there any plans to move on to more secure cyphers?
<cjwatson> sidi: Yes, I've been working on it on and off, but it's requiring development work in Twisted
<cjwatson> Since we use a rather custom SSH server, so it's not just a matter of upgrading OpenSSH or whatever
<sidi> cjwatson, fair enough :-)
#launchpad 2016-09-26
<kittykitty> uhh, launchpad is down?
<cjwatson> kittykitty: Network issue, I think
<kittykitty> thought they fixed it 2 days ago cjwatson ?
<cjwatson> kittykitty: Different one :P
<kittykitty> god, again?!
<cjwatson> kittykitty: I don't know any details, sysadmins are looking into it
<kittykitty> cool cool , thanks cjwatson
<acheronuk> ok, so not just me then... phew
* cjwatson changed the topic of #launchpad to: Network issues, being investigated | Launchpad is an open source project: https://dev.launchpad.net/ | This channel is logged: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | User Guide: https://help.launchpad.net/ | Support: https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad
* wgrant changed the topic of #launchpad to: Launchpad temporarily unavailable due to a network failure | Launchpad is an open source project: https://dev.launchpad.net/ | This channel is logged: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | User Guide: https://help.launchpad.net/ | Support: https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad
<wgrant> cjwatson: Oh, sorry.
<shagan> still down :/
<shagan> is there a mirror we could reach out?
<shagan> trying to download : https://launchpad.net/gcc-arm-embedded/5.0/5-2016-q2-update/+download/gcc-arm-none-eabi-5_4-2016q2-20160622-mac.tar.bz2
<cjwatson> shagan: I'm not aware of any mirrors of product release files.
<cjwatson> shagan: Hopefully it won't be long.
<shagan> @cjwatson hopefully not :/
<amar__> Hello
<axino> shagan cjwatson : it should be back
<amar__> Launchpad is down?
<cjwatson> amar__: Just back now.
<shagan> it started, thanks guys!
* cjwatson changed the topic of #launchpad to: Launchpad is an open source project: https://dev.launchpad.net/ | This channel is logged: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | User Guide: https://help.launchpad.net/ | Support: https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad
<amar__> ah great thanks
<lawdpad> \o/
<fhf> it up again
<dholbach> hiya
<dholbach> do I need to be of a special team to register a sprint for Ubuntu? I can register a general sprint on https://launchpad.net/sprints/+new (no option to choose the LP project) - but will that make it show up on https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+sprints?
<cjwatson> dholbach: Sprints aren't themselves directly related to specification targets such as distributions.  You get a sprint to show up on /ubuntu/+sprints by accepting Ubuntu-targeted specifications as topics for the sprint.
<dholbach> ah ok
<dholbach> thanks cjwatson
<acheronuk> LP down again?
<axino> acheronuk: yes, please bear with us
<acheronuk> np
<axino> acheronuk: it will be back soon
 * acheronuk takes coffee break then :)
<oparoz> Launchpad is still down
<foobar_> Hi. It seems launchpad still down for me. Any news? According to twitter status it's up
<oparoz> Same here
<wgrant> The dodgy hardware has just dropped out again.
<wgrant> It was back for a couple of hours, and will be back again shortly.
<oparoz> Thanks! And good luck :)
* wgrant changed the topic of #launchpad to: Launchpad temporarily unavailable due to network failure | Launchpad is an open source project: https://dev.launchpad.net/ | This channel is logged: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | User Guide: https://help.launchpad.net/ | Support: https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad
<kashyap> Hi folks; any ETA on when LaunchPad will be back up?
<axino> kashyap: not yet unfortunately
<kashyap> axino: Whoops.  Okay, so today I can defer my Openstack upstream bug triage, then... :-)
 * cjwatson updates twitter status again belatedly
<wgrant> cjwatson: Too late
<LocutusOfBorg> hi launchpad, why you 503 since this morning?
<cjwatson> wgrant: Oh, blah, tweetdeck confused me again
<cjwatson> LocutusOfBorg: see /topic
<andykimpe> hello please rapid solve Uh oh!  Something has gone wrong. We're sorry! If we are in the middle of an update, Launchpad will be back in a couple of minutes. Otherwise, we are working to fix the unexpected problems. Check @launchpadstatus on Twitter for updates.  If the problem persists, let us know in the #launchpad IRC channel on freenode.  Technically, the load balancer took too long to connect to an application server.  Reloa
<cjwatson> andykimpe: see /topic, sysadmins are working on it
<monsta> hi all. is packages.ubuntu.com on the same server as LP?
<cjwatson> monsta: No, but it's behind some of the same network infrastructure.
* LocutusOfBorg changed the topic of #launchpad to: Launchpad temporarily unavailable due to network failure | Launchpad is an open source project: https://dev.launchpad.net/ | This channel is logged: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | User Guide: https://help.launchpad.net/ | Support: https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad
<LocutusOfBorg> !topic
<ubot5> Please read the channel topic whenever you enter, as it contains important information. To view it at any time after joining, simply type /topic
<LocutusOfBorg> thanks
<monsta> cjwatson: ah ok, thanks, that explains why it's also unreachable
<cjwatson> monsta: Right, it's a network switch problem not a problem with Launchpad per se.
<monsta> ok I see
<platzhirsch> Any known problems with the packages? https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/trusty/amd64/libssl-dev
<LocutusOfBorg> platzhirsch, launchpad is down
<platzhirsch> LocutusOfBorg: would that affect thepackages as well?
<platzhirsch> the repositories
<platzhirsch> because I can't install thepackage
<cjwatson> platzhirsch: Not the Ubuntu archive, but PPA hosting is affected
<wgrant> platzhirsch: What's the error?
<wgrant> cjwatson: It's actually not :)
<wgrant> PPAs are in GS2
<cjwatson> Oh, good point, but "add-apt-repository" will be :)
<wgrant> Ah yes
<cjwatson> Anyway, yes, state the error.
<platzhirsch> wgrant: cannot find package
<andykimpe> I crazy about your topic  It is almost 17 hours and since no way this morning to connect  I'm asking is that his works  a server that is for fonctioner 24h / 24, 7 days 7
<cjwatson> platzhirsch: No, copy and paste the error message, along with saying exactly what command you ran.
<andykimpe> Server is made to run 24h / 24, 7 days 7
<wgrant> andykimpe: There was a 30 minute outage two hours ago, and 25 minutes just now, due to hardware failures. I don't know what you mean when you say 17 hours.
<acheronuk> andykimpe: to be fair, it has been up *most* of today
<lamont> should I expect that I'm getting "Uh oh!" pages from lp right now?  (https://launchpad.net included)?
<cjwatson> andykimpe: The network switch situation isn't good, but (a) it's outside the control of the Launchpad developers, we're waiting on sysadmins to fix the switch whose hardware is failing, (b) Launchpad has certainly not been down for 17 hours.
<cjwatson> lamont: Yes, see topic.
<lamont> doh
<platzhirsch> Sorry, here http://pastebin.com/n810YqMz cjwatson wgrant
<cjwatson> platzhirsch: OK, that's entirely client-side and nothing to do with Launchpad.  Try "sudo apt-get update" to start with, then "apt-cache policy libssl-dev"
<platzhirsch> cjwatson: ah thanks, I'll try the cache policy
<cjwatson> "sudo apt-get update" may fix it depending on what's wrong, but if not then "apt-cache policy libssl-dev" will tell us more.
<andykimpe> I not hardly this page since 0:00 a.m and is 4:32 p.m. (GMT +1)
<cjwatson> andykimpe: "this page"?
<cjwatson> andykimpe: Launchpad has definitely been up for most of that time.  Perhaps you're conflating multiple problems.
<platzhirsch> cjwatson: working now. I had apt-get update in before but apparently.. I don't know. Works now
<cjwatson> platzhirsch: OK, great
<platzhirsch> Thanks a lot, silly mistake :)
<barry> ah, looks like launchpad is having hiccups
<martin1> launchpad being down right now is really amazingly bad timing!
<martin1> never mind :-(
<martin1> hope you can get it back up and running soon
<smcginnis> Sorry if it's been asked already lately, but anyone have status on what's going on and any ETA? I can try to spread the news in the OpenStack community.
<martin1> i uninstalled PHP7 and went to install Ondrej's PHP5 but of course launchpad no worky, can't add the PPA... now I have a temporarily dead website :-)
<mapreri> is patches.ubuntu.com in the same DC of launchpad?  (that one is down tooâ¦)
<mg983> there's an outage, right?
<martin1> mg983: yeah
<axino> there is a network outage yes
<mg983> an eta?
<axino> no ETA right now
<mordof> martin1: can you grab it from source somewhere else in the meantime?
<wgrant> martin1: You can actually use PPAs, you just can't use add-apt-repository.
<mg983> darn ok
<wgrant> (add-apt-repository uses the webapp, which is dependent on servers sitting on the dead switch. but ppa.launchpad.net itself is fine.)
<wgrant> So if you add the PPA to your sources.list manually, all should be good.
<mordof> oooh
<mordof> that's good to know
<martin1> wgrant: oh, thanks
<martin1> wgrant: how would I add e.g. ppa:ondrej/php ?
<martin1> the URL is https://launchpad.net/~ondrej/+archive/php which is obviously also down
<dobey> you have to wait for LP to be back up again
<wgrant> martin1: 'deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/ondrej/php/ubuntu SERIES main'
<wgrant> dobey: no
<martin1> wgrant: isn't that then going to poll ppa.launchpad.net ? or is that a separate server that's not down?
<cjwatson> Getting the key to add a PPA by hand is tricky, though.
<cjwatson> martin1: ppa.launchpad.net is up
<martin1> cjwatson: thanks
<wgrant> martin1: ppa.launchpad.net is in the other datacentre, so it's fine
<martin1> aah thanks
<martin1> much appreciated
<mordof> wgrant: was that an intentional decision to separate the two?
<wgrant> It's just the switch with critical single-point-of-failure master database infrastructure that's failed.
<cjwatson> (I don't think the key is currently available anywhere other than the database/webapp)
<wgrant> cjwatson: Indeed...
<wgrant> mordof: Not exactly.
<dimitern`> any idea how long a downtime are we looking at?
<cjwatson> dimitern`: We haven't been given an ETA by sysadmins yet, I'm afraid.
<dimitern`> cjwatson: right, ok - thanks
<Rumbles> yey my ppa works again now :D
<mg983> mine too Rumbles
<mordof> wgrant: alright. i'm learning about building systems that could have considerations like that, so was thinking it'd be interesting to get insight into that if it were intentional
<mordof> if it was*...?
<mordof> had been?
<mordof> lol
<cjwatson> "if it were" is right here, since it's a counterfactual :)
<mordof> ok
<mordof> thanks :)
<cjwatson> (or "if it had been", I guess.)
<mordof> maybe the two are interchangeable here? they both feel correct. not sure
<cjwatson> Different tense.
<wgrant> mordof: In an ideal world we'd have one of everything in each of our London DCs. But there are a couple of things that aren't: one of them is ppa.launchpad.net, because it's very large and not currently practical to replicate live; and another is the master DB infrastructure, because there has to be a single master at any one time.
<mordof> cjwatson: english is hard sometimes
<mordof> wgrant: that makes sense :) thanks
<cjwatson> We do have some tentative plans for de-single-point-of-failure-ing ppa.launchpad.net; in doing that we would probably want to think about attempting to preserve the useful property of independence from master DB problems that we've seen here (though doing so fully may be hard, since the entire reason it's independent is that it has a multi-terabyte copy of lots of stuff locally ...)
<wgrant> cjwatson: That's already solved by the multiple pgbouncer solution which is planned.
<seme> with ppa down will I be able to do things like add apt repositories on my system?
<wgrant> Since they can reasonably run off a slave.
<cjwatson> wgrant: That's better robustness of the core rather than independence of PPA, but yes
<cjwatson> seme: Once added they'll work, but add-apt-repository won't work at the moment.
<cjwatson> (Well, "add-apt-repository ppa:..." that is.)
<mordof> wgrant: is pgbouncer a solution for handling many read-nodes, with a way of distributing writes to all of them?
<seme> damn
<seme> thanks
<wgrant> mordof: Well that's a funny story actually
<cjwatson> https://pgbouncer.github.io/
<cjwatson> https://wiki.postgresql.org/wiki/PgBouncer is perhaps slightly more readable ...
<dobey> mostly what i'm missing right now is IRC :)
<mordof> yeah, their main page doesn't explain things that well, lol
<mapreri> is patches.u.c in the same place?  or, why is it down too?
<cjwatson> mapreri: It's behind the same failed switch.
<mapreri> oh, now it replied, damn.
<mordof> wgrant: i'd be interested in hearing about it if you've got the time/interest :)
<mapreri> cjwatson: i suspected it.  though now patches.u.c replied, but lp doesn't :|  I suppose that's enough for now for me :)
<dobey> oh well, hopefully it'll be back when i return from lunch
<dimitern`> paste.u.c is back at least
<cjwatson> mapreri: Earlier some packets were getting through but not all; it may be, er, patchy.
<mapreri> ic
<dimitern`> and LP's back! \o/
<dimitern`> (most of it - some imgs still not appearing though)
<cjwatson> Probably not reliably.
<andrew90> hi guys!
<andrew90> what happened?
<mordof> oh, it seems pgsql has been adding replication into their own stuff.. we'd been using pg 9.1 up until recently, so i hadn't noticed
<andrew90> trying to download a jar from launchpad, it seems offline?
<dimitern`> down again :/
<smcginnis> andrew90: Network outage is being worked on.
<smcginnis> No ETA at the moment.
<andrew90> ok, thank you smcginnis
<andrew90> are there any other mirror available? I'm trying to get https://launchpad.net/sikuli/sikulix/1.1.0/+download/sikulixsetup-1.1.0.jar
<cjwatson> andrew90: I'm not aware of any other mirrors for project release files like that in general, no, although of course individual projects might happen to host them elsewhere as well.
<andrew90> Thank you again then :)
<andrew90> bye!
<madjedj> Hi all, is some know how long Launchpad will be unavailable ?
<mordof> no ETA provided as of yet
<jfjeronimo> Hola! Tengo problemas con el repositorio pi-rho, Â¿alguien sabe si lo solucionarÃ¡n pronto? Gracias!
<axino> jfjeronimo: hi, launchad is unreachable because a network outage
<rashar> Is ppa/arand down?
<madjedj> mordof: ok thank's and good bye. :(
<jfjeronimo> hi axino, thank you!
<brookshank> ETA on it coming back?
<axino> no ETA yet
<brookshank> damn
<BlackMage> what kind of network outage?
<wgrant> BlackMage: The switch with the master database server on it failed.
<BlackMage> wgrant: a joke?
<wgrant> BlackMage: No.
<mordof> wgrant: did it take any other hardware with it? or it just died itself?
<jfjeronimo> Ready! Thanks!
<axino> OK
<axino> Launchpad should be back
<cjwatson> axino: Likely to stay up now?
<axino> cjwatson: likely, yes.
<mordof> hurray for launchpad!
<mordof> good job to all involved for identifying and solving the problem :)
<mordof> thanks for keeping things running ^_^
* cjwatson changed the topic of #launchpad to: Launchpad is an open source project: https://dev.launchpad.net/ | This channel is logged: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | User Guide: https://help.launchpad.net/ | Support: https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad
<JeanLuc_> Okay this is the 3rd channel I was sent to, so please don't just respond with "ask in $SOME_OTHER_CHANNEL". I want to build my vala/gtk-application on launchpad as part of a ppa. But I am facing a strange issue: First a vapi-file is being created during the build, then right after the build fails complaining it can't find the exact same file.
<JeanLuc_> error: /Â«BUILDDIRÂ»/feedreader-2.0.0~r1264+pkg25~ubuntu16.10.1//Â«BUILDDIRÂ»/feedreader-2.0.0~r1264+pkg25~ubuntu16.10.1/obj-x86_64-linux-gnu/FeedReaderCommon.vapi not found
<JeanLuc_> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/286704177/buildlog_ubuntu-yakkety-amd64.feedreader_2.0.0~r1264+pkg25~ubuntu16.10.1_BUILDING.txt.gz
<nacc> JeanLuc_: to repeat what i said in #ubuntu:
<nacc> 2.0.0~r1264+pkg25~ubuntu16.10.1//Â«BUILDDIRÂ»/feedreader-2.0.0~r1264+pkg25~ubuntu16.10.1/obj-x86_64-linux-gnu/FeedReaderCommon.vapi
<dobey> well, this is the wrong channel, as this doesn't have anything to do with launchpad itself. it seems there is a problem with the build rules, and the vapi file is either not being created, or created in a different location than the latter rules expect it
<nacc> error: /Â«BUILDDIRÂ»/feedreader-2.0.0~r1264+pkg25~ubuntu16.10.1//Â«BUILDDIRÂ»/feedreader-2.0.0~r1264+pkg25~ubuntu16.10.1/obj-x86_64-linux-gnu/FeedReaderCommon.vapi not found
<sarnold> wow there's a lot of warnings in that thing, it's hard to even spot an error among all the warnings...
<sarnold> sure enough that last "/usr/bin/valac -C -b ..." command refers to that filename with the funky doubled-BUILDDIR, near the end
<dobey> indeed
<dobey> fix your cmake :)
<sarnold> whether that means there's a missing filename or missing file or needless reference to a variable, I can't guess, I don't know Cmake nearly well enough
<dobey> the CMakeLists.txt is definitely wrong somewhere
#launchpad 2016-09-27
<jamesh> wgrant: could I trouble you for a project rename?  I'd like https://launchpad.net/storage-provider-owncloud renamed to storage-provider-webdav
<wgrant> jamesh: Do you want a redirect?
<jamesh> wgrant: that's probably not necessary.  So far I'm the only one who has worked on it, and we haven't published any releases
<wgrant> jamesh: Sounds good. Rename done, if you hadn't noticed.
<jamesh> wgrant: thank you
<wgrant> np
<twb> Dumb question: is malone something I can deploy in-house at an airgapped R&D company, like RT or Roundup?  Or is is like debbugs - theoretically possible, but not worth the hassle?
<om26er> Hi!
#launchpad 2016-09-28
<caraka> Question: Is it possible to dput one set of signed source packages and have lp build across the 4 current releases?
<ovidiu-florin> hello world
<ovidiu-florin> I'm trying to register the KDevelop project in LP so we can have a project for Kubuntu from where to serve KDevelop packages before they go in the Kubuntu archive or backports
<ovidiu-florin> but I'm getting an error that says that the project is registered
<ovidiu-florin> but when I go to http://launchpad.net/kdevelop I get a 404
<ovidiu-florin> why is that?
<cjwatson> because it was previously registered and now inactive
<ovidiu-florin> I found this: https://launchpad.net/~kdevelop
<ovidiu-florin> is it related?
<cjwatson> no
<cjwatson> ovidiu-florin: I've renamed the old inactive project out of the way; you should be able to register it now
<ovidiu-florin> thank you
<ovidiu-florin> It's created https://launchpad.net/kdevelop
<KNRO_> I'm getting an odd import error here: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/287070586/mutlaqja-kstars-bleeding-master.log
<KNRO_> but my git repo does not contain any submodules
<KNRO_> so what's going on?
<cjwatson> It must have them in the history somewhere
<KNRO_> cjwatson: how to find this out? the import was working fine up until a week or two ago
<cjwatson> KNRO_: 7cd2ae86cc875247528cf4e1235147f0864e101e adds a submodule at kstars/kstarslite/kirigami and is in your history
<KNRO_> cjwatson: thanks, is there a way to remove this?
<cjwatson> not without rewriting your history :(
<cjwatson> we should have native git-to-git imports this year though, which won't have that limitation
<KNRO_> well, I can't wait till then, I have folks relying on the PPA
<cjwatson> as a stopgap you could build source packages manually, though I know that's not great
<cjwatson> might be tolerable for a month or two
<KNRO_> cjwatson: but the submodule was removed, why is this still a problem?
<cjwatson> KNRO_: because the entire point of an import is to represent each revision in the history
<cjwatson> KNRO_: if it can't represent a revision then it's going to fail, regardless of whether the changes introduced by that revision were later reverted
 * KNRO_ is screwed
<cjwatson> sorry, I don't have a better alternative to offer at the moment although I wish I did
<KNRO_> cjwatson: you said there was a way by rewriting the history? is this plausible? I never heard of it until now
<cjwatson> git filter-branch or similar, but it's very intrusive - it'd cause problems for anyone with a git checkout
<cjwatson> manual source uploads to the PPA for the time being are probably a more viable workaround
<KNRO_> cjwatson: looks like I'll go that path until git import is fixed by launchpad
<KNRO_> ETA a month of two? :D
<KNRO_> well it also looks like I'll go back to snapcraft again
<cjwatson> KNRO_: the other thing you could do is manually push the git repository to git.launchpad.net every so often and create a recipe from that instead
<mg983> Is there an outage currently?
<mg983> Fetched 3,022 kB in 3s (972 kB/s)
<mg983> W: Size of file /var/lib/apt/lists/security.ubuntu.com_ubuntu_dists_trusty-security_restricted_binary-amd64_Packages.gz is not what the server reported 20228 20231
<cjwatson> #launchpad doesn't operate security.ubuntu.com frontends
<cjwatson> try #canonical-sysadmin, though see if it's reproducible first
<mg983> sorry!!
<caraka> Speaking of manual source uploads to a PPA (from a few hours ago), is it possible to dput a single set of sources and have it build across multiple releases?
<caraka> Or is it just the one release mentioned in the changelog, requiring a unique source for each release?
<dobey> if you are doing manual uploads, you need to create different .dsc for each release, yes
<cjwatson> caraka: yeah, the answer to your question as stated is no it's not possible, but if the binaries built for the oldest release will do then you can upload to the oldest, wait for it to build, copy forward to all the newer ones
<cjwatson> caraka: you could also use recipes to automate multiple uploads if that makes sense in your case
<caraka> YOu've piqued my interest cjwatson. How would one use a recipe to automate multiple uploads? Is there an example of that somewhere that I can go poke around and get my head into?
<cjwatson> caraka: https://help.launchpad.net/Packaging/SourceBuilds is the top of our documentation on this
<cjwatson> depending on the exact situation it may not suit you, but could be worth looking at
<caraka> That is what I had before. Now that the devs use gpgsigs, the imports from github fail.
<caraka> I tried setting up a git repo on lp, but I couldn't figure out how to make it work with github as the upstream.
<dobey> you have to clone/push manually at the moment i think, to get a mirror on lp
<caraka> yes - that's what I couldn't make work, using the instructiuons here. I think there are some asusmptions in the instructions on how things should work that are not apparent to a noob. That's why I've resorted to multiple dputs
<caraka> I just couldn't figure out how to manage it with git.
<caraka> after a whole Satruday messing with it, I knew that it should be easier than it was and that the ignorance was on my end.  :P
<caraka> Do you know of any lp projects that are managed this way, so I can go look at how they are set up at lp versus github? That way I might be able to figure out how they manage and name branches,etc.
<cjwatson> I don't know if anyone is doing a manual clone/push thing at the moment
 * cjwatson eyes his git-import-model branch, 600-odd lines in
 * caraka stumbles on a git mirroring article he wish he had found last Saturday
<caraka> If I figure out an elegant/straightforward way to explain this I'll document it and share it. I know you are not asking the impossible for us to mirror into git at the moment.
#launchpad 2016-09-29
<check_> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?orderby=datecreated&start=0  sort-order -->> Server error, please contact an administrator. OOPS ID:OOPS-4dc20cec3262c6a32be4b4fc9b99242f
<ubot5> https://oops.canonical.com/?oopsid=OOPS-4dc20cec3262c6a32be4b4fc9b99242f
<check_> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?orderby=datecreated&start=0 sort-order -->> Server error, please contact an administrator. OOPS ID:OOPS-e9969ce2b0e63d51cb24515bd91b5853
<ubot5> https://oops.canonical.com/?oopsid=OOPS-e9969ce2b0e63d51cb24515bd91b5853
<wgrant> check_: That's https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/1475221. As a workaround, you can log in.
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1475221 in Launchpad itself "Private teams invisible to anonymous users even when they interact with public objects" [High,Triaged]
<check_> i'm not logged in, error on change asc/decnd
<check_> ok thank-you
<sarnold> is there a way to discover who has visibility on a specific bug?
<sarnold> I'm curious if a bug that I reported can actually be -seen- by anybody or not -- the "other bug subscribers" list is entirely blank, which I find suspicious
<sarnold> 1628348 is one of the bugs in question
<wgrant> sarnold: That's a difficult question. It's not possible to query that directly, because it can reveal information that is private (eg. members of private teams).
<wgrant> But it's more awkward than it could be.
<sarnold> oh that is difficult. I hadn't thought about that.
<sarnold> zero-or-non-zero would be nice though
<wgrant> It is a rather unfortunate problem.
<wgrant> But it's generally assumed that projects are configured sensibly such that at least someone can see each information type.
<wgrant> The only deliberate exception to that is Private in Ubuntu.
<sarnold> or maybe "six actual human accounts can see this bug, and three of them have been active in the last year"? :)
<wgrant> sarnold: But if the "Other bug subscribers" list is blank, nobody will have been notified about it, at least.
<wgrant> So it's not hugely relevant whether anyone can actually *see* it, since they won't have been told about it.
<sarnold> hah
<wgrant> sarnold: Which project, and Private or Private Security?
<sarnold> wgrant: oslo.privsep, private security
<wgrant> I can use superpowers to check the configuration.
<wgrant> sarnold: Only the project's registrant can see it, and since he's not in ~oslo-drivers (the new owner), I'm not sure he's involved any more.
<wgrant> sarnold: Might be worth poking the new owner to fix https://launchpad.net/oslo.privsep/+sharing
<wgrant> I suppose the OpenStack security team should have Private Seurity access...
<sarnold> that was my assumption when I filed the bug
<sarnold> but they're usually pretty quick; I'm not accustomed to an entire day's delay without any response at all, so it seemed worth investigating further
<sarnold> thanks wgrant, very helpful
<wgrant> sarnold: We know this is pretty awful if the project is misconfigured, but due to it all being about privacy (and remember that we have all sorts of hybrid projects with both public and private stuff, and even the set of teams that are involved in the private stuff can be sensitive) it's very difficult to safely make the information available to people not involved in the project.
<wgrant> Luckily most projects are correctly configured.
<tsimonq2> do PPAs support Debian releases, and if not, why?
<Laney> It's possible to do test livefs builds under my personal namespace using packages out of a PPA, isn't it?
<Laney> (If so, how?)
<cjwatson> Laney: you probably want to start with https://launchpad.net/~/+new-livefs and make it look like the existing one
<cjwatson> Laney: then do what ubuntu-cdimage/lib/cdimage/livefs.py does when EXTRA_PPAS is passed
<Laney> cjwatson: Alright, so I'm constructing the same API call as livefs.py does
<Laney> I'll try it in a bit, thanks for the pointer
<alkisg> Hi, I've been trying to copy oracle-java8-installer from lp:~webupd8team to lp:~ts.sch.gr, and I keep getting this error:
<alkisg> Launchpad encountered an internal error during the following operation: copying a package.  It was logged with id OOPS-5b119d68b21cb1c413bd083df2023d4a.  Sorry for the inconvenience.
<ubot5> https://oops.canonical.com/?oopsid=OOPS-5b119d68b21cb1c413bd083df2023d4a
<alkisg> Any ways around it? It's been that way for months now...
<cjwatson> alkisg: That's https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/1475358, in which the belief about the current state is that a simple retry should work
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1475358 in Launchpad itself "Racing package copies crash when trying to create duplicate PackageDiffs" [Critical,Triaged]
<cjwatson> alkisg: You might also try only copying a single series at a time, if you're copying more than one
<alkisg> cjwatson: thank you, I had 3 failed attempts while letting weeks go by each time, but I'll retry a few times now
<cjwatson> It certainly isn't necessary to wait weeks; it's a race within a transaction boundary
<alkisg> OK, I'll try that one as well (I'm copying multiple series)
<alkisg> (it just wasn't very important at the time, but now sites refuse to load because of old java version, so I'll try it more :))
<alkisg> Thank you very much\
<cjwatson> It's possible that there remains some corrupted DB state, but I'm reasonably sure we cleared it all out after deploying the most recent partial fix
<cjwatson> And as William said there's a database constraint now that should prevent that
<cjwatson> So actually it shouldn't be possible that there remains some corrupted DB state :)
 * alkisg has two packages pending to be published there, and hopes he just needs to wait more...
<alkisg> https://launchpad.net/~ts.sch.gr/+archive/ubuntu/ppa/+packages?field.name_filter=java&field.status_filter=published&field.series_filter=
<alkisg> Yup, waiting did it; copying the 3rd series now... :)
<clivejo> can launchpad automatically pull the packaging from LP git and the source code from a download server and build packages from it?
<dobey> no
<dobey> well, sort of for snaps i guess, but for debs no
<clivejo> can the source git be automatically imported then?
<clivejo> I have the project https://launchpad.net/kdevelop and the source git is git://anongit.kde.org/kdevelop.git
<dobey> yes, you can import to bzr automatically
<clivejo> could that be auto imported and then a recipe be created to build it with our packaging here - https://code.launchpad.net/~kubuntu-packagers/kubuntu-packaging/+git/kdevelop
<dobey> if that won't work, then no, automated imports for git->git are not ready yet
<dobey> yes
<clivejo> can it build a few packages
<dobey> well, you'd have to push the packaging to bzr instead of git, to do recipes for bzr with separate source and packaging branches, i think
<clivejo> oh
<dobey> no you can't build multiple source packages from a single source with a recipe
<clivejo> not a fan of bzr
<clivejo> humm
<clivejo> doesnt look like it will work
<clivejo> can LP be configured to copy certain packages?
<dobey> you can manually sync a mirror in git if you prefer
<clivejo> ie copy the required packages from our CI https://launchpad.net/~kubuntu-ci/+archive/ubuntu/unstable/ to the project team PPA?
<dobey> you can't copy binary packages from somewhere else into LP, no
<dobey> if it's an archive in launchpad, yes you can copy from one PPA to another
<clivejo> but not automatically?
<clivejo> I know I can copy them manually
<dobey> you can't configure it automatically in LP, but you could write a script to do it using the API
<clivejo> is there an ETA for when working with git will be available?
<dobey> you can work with git now. you just can't do git->git automatic imports
<dobey> you can clone a repo, add the launchpad remote, and push to launchpad, and it works, though
<cjwatson> clivejo: don't have an ETA yet, but I've started preliminary work on git->git imports, design and some initial preparatory refactoring
<cjwatson> clivejo: not promising I'll be working on it continuously as yet, that depends on other priorities
<cjwatson> the initial refactoring is moderately complex in itself, lots of built-in assumptions that code imports will only ever be to bzr
<tsimonq2> hmm'
<tsimonq2> I can't do anything with launchpadlib atm
<tsimonq2> I'm getting thrown this:
<tsimonq2> httplib2.SSLHandshakeError: [SSL: CERTIFICATE_VERIFY_FAILED] certificate verify failed (_ssl.c:590)
<tsimonq2> any ideas?
#launchpad 2016-09-30
<acheronuk> If I wished to change the name of my launchpad ID, I assume changing it would not break any permissions/memberships/subscriptions or website logins that use login.launchpad.net to authenticate?
<acheronuk> I know I would need to remove any ppas before changing
#launchpad 2016-10-01
<merito> Hello, every boby
<merito> I have a launchpad reverse proxy, but how to use it? Can anyone help me?
<tsimonq2> timeouts are FUN /o/
<tsimonq2> */o\
<tsimonq2> everything on this page needs to be deleted: https://launchpad.net/~kubuntu-ppa/+archive/ubuntu/backports/+delete-packages?field.name_filter=&field.series_filter=wily&field.status_filter=&batch=75&direction=backwards&start=150
<tsimonq2> they're all Wily packages and Wily is EOL
<tsimonq2> unfortunately, I'm getting timeouts every single time I try :(
<acheronuk> tsimonq2: same here
<acheronuk> tsimonq2: there is a klearppa script in kubuntu-dev-tools, but I'm slightly scared to run that against just one release and trust it does what it says and leaves the rest in place
<tsimonq2> +1 acheronuk
<cjwatson> tsimonq2: try deleting fewer at a time.
<tsimonq2> cjwatson: ok, let's see then
<teward> are unsigned source packages accepted for PPA uploads?
<teward> asking out of curiosity only
<teward> IIRC they're not
<cjwatson> teward: no, they aren't (and won't be)
<teward> yep, just needed to refresh my memory :)
<teward> thanks, cjwatson
#launchpad 2017-09-25
<didrocks> hey cjwatson, wgrant
<didrocks> small question, I'm trying to update ubuntu-meta, and after two trials, I get:
<didrocks> W: Retrying failed download of http://ports.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-ports/dists/artful/main/binary-armhf/Packages.gz
<didrocks> W: http://ports.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-ports/dists/artful/main/binary-armhf/Packages.gz was corrupt
<didrocks> I: Retrieving Packages
<didrocks> E: Couldn't download dists/artful/main/binary-armhf/Packages
<didrocks> anything I sohuld worry about on armhf port?
<didrocks> (works now)
<Laney> :D
<cjwatson> didrocks: I think that's probably something like germinate not doing by-hash downloads
<nacc> cjwatson: so i'm updating our snap to use pypi and the python plugin for git-ubuntu. But that results in using oauth from pypi, which is known-broken (python3 syntax issue). In your estimation, is the 'right' fix to carry a local part (and correspondign source) for oauth with the ubuntu patch applied and just build that first?
#launchpad 2017-09-26
<cjwatson> nacc: ah yeah, the oauth thing.  it's awkward, and we probably have to convert to oauthlib or something, but that's probably the best answer for the time being
<ricotz> cjwatson, hi :), could you increase this ppa's size a bit, so that I can upload another build -- https://launchpad.net/~mozillateam/+archive/ubuntu/thunderbird-next/+packages
<cjwatson> thunderbird you are porky
<cjwatson> ricotz: done
<ricotz> cjwatson, it basically goes together with firefox -- thanks!
<cjwatson> though I think possibly a reaper job just ran, since it's down to 9.7GiB used now
<ricotz> cjwatson, yeah, I was wondering about that too
<cjwatson> process-death-row runs every six hours, so I imagine it was that
<nacc> cjwatson: yep, np -- I might see if I can push that up to snappy and see if they can carry it as a shared part
<savannah> join
<s\lver> Hi there, we're having trouble contacting ppa.launchpad.net from one of our locations but not from others. Is is possible to see if we have been blocked?
#launchpad 2017-09-28
<acheronuk> has LP git gone down?
<acheronuk> 503 Service Unavailable
<acheronuk> No server is available to handle this request.
<wgrant> Yep, working on it
<acheronuk> ok. thank you :)
#launchpad 2017-09-29
<elacheche> Hey folks! Just a quick question.. Is there a way to automate the login to LP when it's used by other apps (sso) like wikis and so? I'd like to automate some work, but I will need to login 1st
<stub> elacheche: I think login.ubuntu.com supports oauth for that, but I don't know where it is documented.
<stub> elacheche: Launchpad too IIRC, using the Launchpad python client or oauth
<stub> https://help.launchpad.net/API/ThirdPartyIntegration
<elacheche> Thx stub !! :D
<nacc> cjwatson: i think there's a coding error in lauchpadlib/credentials.py, in the except case at line 643, browser_obj is not set to None and is used on line 656. I'm getting a backtrace in my snap (not sure why, as it was auth'd before, but regardless)
<cjwatson> nacc: wasn't that one of the things I fixed in 1.10.5?
<nacc> cjwatson: oh pypi only has 4 (same with artful)
<nacc> bah nm
<nacc> pypi has 1.10.5
<nacc> my fault!
<nacc> but artful may need an update eventually
<cjwatson> nacc: Debian is up to date, so a sync might be worthwhile
<nacc> cjwatson: ack
<cjwatson> lemme sync that
<cjwatson> modulo approval
<nacc> cjwatson: thanks
<nacc> cjwatson: sorry i didn't notice it earlier :)
<nacc> cjwatson: ok, different issue popped up, which I could have sworn we resolved earlier, but I can't find it in my logs: http://paste.ubuntu.com/25640297/\
<nacc> cjwatson: lauchpadlib is encoding it before passing it down (i believe), but keyrings.alt (for file-backed keys) assumes it's not encoded
<nacc> cjwatson: found the bug, sorry -- LP: #1685962
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1685962 in launchpadlib "keyring file-backend reports backtrace with oauth" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1685962
<cjwatson> nacc: yeah, as before we need to test that
<nacc> cjwatson: yep
#launchpad 2017-09-30
<tsimonq2> Any reason why the arm builder queue has half the builders disabled?
<acheronuk> one 'arm' tied behind their back?
 * acheronuk runs
<tsimonq2> hehehehe
#launchpad 2017-10-01
<Son_Goku> launchpad looks dead atm? :(
<Son_Goku> I see nothing mentioned on @launchpadstatus
<blahdeblah> Son_Goku: We've got some network issues at the moment; working on it.
<Son_Goku> okay, cool
<luk3yx> What is going on with launchpad?
<luk3yx> Oh
<brekmister> 'ello mates
<blahdeblah> www.ubuntu.com has been under DDOS, and launchpad got hit as a side effect.
<tsimonq2> Ah ok
<blahdeblah> Things seem to be settling now
<brekmister> @blahdeblah I figured
<tsimonq2> Cool cool, thanks blahdeblah et al for getting it figured out :)
<brekmister> Just curious, is there a known responsible party or no?
<luk3yx> Who would want to DDoS a FOSS project?
<brekmister> @luk3yx Who knows? Some people are probably bored.
<luk3yx> Probably.
<brekmister> launchpad is now down for a system patch I believe.
<luk3yx> Okay
<brekmister> But the twitter updates haven't said anything so, I am awfully curious as to what they are doing
<luk3yx> Thanks.
<brekmister> 'ello mates
<brekmister> To those who just joined, it seems that Canoncial was under a DDoS attack. Launchpad got hit as well. IDK what they are doing right now to fix it.
<Guest59447> gotcha, thanks for the update
<Bashing-om> brekmister: That ^ answers my query :)
<wgrant> We're working on it, should be back soon.
<brekmister> Well at least there are the mirrors
<luk3yx> Mirrors?
<brekmister> @luk3yx for the official ubuntu repos
<luk3yx> Oh, okay
<brekmister> such as mirrors.gigenet.net
<brekmister> but, it wont have any ppa's soooooooo :P
<mkurzeja> launchpad down ?
<brekmister> To those who just joined, it seems that Canoncial was under a DDoS attack. Launchpad got hit as well. They are working on it.
<mkurzeja> "Something has gone wrong. We're sorry!
<mkurzeja> "
* wgrant changed the topic of #launchpad to: Launchpad temporarily offline due to DoS attack | Launchpad is an open source project: https://dev.launchpad.net/ | This channel is logged: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | User Guide: https://help.launchpad.net/ | Support: https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad
<mkurzeja> ah, ok
<tsimonq2> wgrant: thanks
<mkurzeja> >.>
<brekmister> wgrant: More likely DDoS?
<Peng> brekmister: Yes, but DoS is 25% shorter. :P
<brekmister> Peng: Can't argue with that :P
<mkurzeja> ok, launchpad up (for now)
<brekmister> I confirm.
<brekmister> Now I can finally install dolphin 5.0 XD
<wgrant> It's on the way back.
<mkurzeja> xD
<mkurzeja> have a nice day
<cjwatson> I've reset the stalled builders now too.
<cjwatson> (and belatedly replied to people on @launchpadstatus ...)
* wgrant changed the topic of #launchpad to: Launchpad is an open source project: https://dev.launchpad.net/ | This channel is logged: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | User Guide: https://help.launchpad.net/ | Support: https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad
#launchpad 2018-09-25
<teward> i mistakenly uploaded to a PPA before enabling other arches beyond amd64 and i386, is there a way to trigger the other arch builds without uploading a replacement version of the package?
<cjwatson> teward: copy the package over the top of itself
<cjwatson> (including existing binaries in the copy)
<teward> cjwatson: thanks, i'll let you know if that doesn't work for any reason (I thought this would trigger it, but wasn't sure...)
<teward> cjwatson: that worked, thanks.
<cjwatson> np
<ijohnson> Does anybody know if it's possible to setup a snap on LP to have a test suite run against the snap after it's built? It doesn't appear so, but I'm not an expert so I thought I'd check
<nacc> ijohnson: iirc, there are some feature request out for that, i can't recall if it exists already or not. You might want to ask in #snappy too
<ijohnson> Okay, I'll ask there too after a while. Thanks
<joelkraehemann> hi all
<joelkraehemann> Uh oh!
<joelkraehemann> Something has gone wrong. We're sorry!
<joelkraehemann> ^^ I get this as during configuring a snap
<joelkraehemann> https://code.launchpad.net/~jkraehemann/+snap/gsequencer
#launchpad 2018-09-26
<ginggs> launchpad doesn't seem to be picking up new versions from debian, e.g. https://launchpad.net/debian/+source/lazarus hasn't picked up the 1.8.4+dfsg-3 upload from about 17 hours ago
<wgrant> ginggs: That should fix itself within a few hours. There were some configuration changes on the internal mirror overnight that caused some trouble.
<ginggs> wgrant: thanks!
<joelkraehemann> hi all
<joelkraehemann> https://code.launchpad.net/~jkraehemann/+recipe/gsequencer-daily
<joelkraehemann> ^^ launchpad doesn't use clean bazar tree to do the build
<joelkraehemann> this is why it fails
<joelkraehemann> ^^ obviously I didn't push, sorry
#launchpad 2018-09-27
<Sven_vB> Hi! known bug? HTTP 500 + "Unexpected error in translatePath." https://git.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/
<Sven_vB> I wish I'd have kept yesterday's cloneâ¦
<Sven_vB> cool, seems to work again. thanks!
<smoser> $ git clone -v ssh://git.launchpad.net/usd-importer xxusd
<smoser> Cloning into 'xxusd'...
<smoser> remote: Counting objects: 141
<smoser> ...
<smoser> *really* slow. i thought it had hung several times
<hloeung> there's some ongoing rebalancing work, I think it's related
<smoser> ok. more just a report. not a big problem for me
<smoser> thanks
#launchpad 2018-09-28
<Helenah> How come ppa.launchpad.net is done?
<Helenah> *down
<Helenah> Can I have an alternate address please?
<Helenah> This is frequent...
<teward> Helenah: how do you know it's "down"?
<Helenah> I don't really
<Helenah> Either way
<Helenah> I need an alternate address
<nacc> Helenah: what do you mean by 'alternate address'?
<Helenah> nacc: Well... there is some fluky node
<Helenah> around here, out of my control
<Helenah> So I'd like an alternative address to the PPA server
<teward> LP timeouts on launchpad.net/ubuntu - OOPS-85c744bff89cd439dc48678479027349
<ubot5> https://oops.canonical.com/?oopsid=OOPS-85c744bff89cd439dc48678479027349
<teward> Helenah: I don't think there's an alternative address for it
<teward> since there's only one IP address assigned to it, I don't think there's alternate servers/addressees
<teward> but that's an LP Admin question
<teward> Helenah: and by 'fluky node' what do you mean?
<teward> if you mean some point between you and the PPA servers an alternate address won't help
<Helenah> teward: There are several fluky nodes that belong to my ISP
<Helenah> and it's a nightmare when trying to administrate things
<teward> Helenah: then there's nothing you can do
<teward> alt address or not
<teward> and you're out of luck
<teward> if the "fluky nodes" are out of your control an alternate address won't solve the problem
<Helenah> So what do I need to be doing?
<Helenah> Cause... I'm considering a switch over to Debian
<teward> yelling at your ISP is what you should be doing
<Helenah> That fixes nothing
<teward> since the ISP's bad nodes in the network chain are at fault
<teward> Helenah: neither does switching to Debian - same fluky nodes problem
<Helenah> Like... I learned in this life that you can yell and scream all you want but your voice wont get heard.
<Helenah> Debians repos work though
<Helenah> like always
<teward> so do Ubuntu - PPAs aren't official repos :p
<teward> and there's no PPAs for Debian if you need custom packages
<Helenah> Agreed
<Helenah> I have issues with Ubuntu repos too though sometimes
<Helenah> and when I traceroute, things get stuck on ISP nodes
<teward> again, ISP problem.  Up to you whether you use Ubuntu or not, but ther'es nothing *we* can do to help you
<teward> Helenah: have you tried looking for a local repo mirror
<teward> one that might be more 'accessible' by your ISP?
<Helenah> I could do
<teward> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+archivemirrors might be prudent
<teward> a whole list of them
<teward> some are not up to date though
<nacc> Helenah: teward's point is that if you tried to route to the ppa in debian, it's the same issue.
<nacc> Helenah: that's the only thing to diagnose, so 1) fix the ISP, 2) switch ISP, 3) don't use PPAs.
#launchpad 2018-09-29
<__marco> Hello. I am uploading source packages to launchpad and sometime the packages are not built. The package are correctly uploaded: "Successfully uploaded packages." but the build is not launched
<__marco> From launchpad I cannot see any related information
<__marco> I uploaded the same package for three distributions: trusty, xenial and bionic and only the bionic upload succeed
<__marco> https://launchpad.net/~marco-giusti/+archive/ubuntu/qemu/+packages
<__marco> The first attempt was to create a source package for the tree distributions, listing all of them in the changelog. The build was never ran.
<__marco> In the second attempt I uploaded the package for bionic only and it worked.
<__marco> In the third and fourth attempts I uploaded the package for trusty and xenial, using the same procedure and the builds has not be lunched
<__marco> I just notice this message: "Package includes an .orig.tar.gz file although the debian revision suggests
<__marco> that it might not be required. Multiple uploads of the .orig.tar.gz may be
<__marco> rejected by the upload queue management software.
<__marco> "
<__marco> and actually the orig.tar.gz package is the same for the three distributions
<__marco> Sorry for the noise, every time I received an email, but I didn't notice
<wgrant> Yeah, dput doesn't provide much opportunity for feedback, so email it is
<wgrant> You'll always get an email unless you didn't sign the .changes properly
<__marco> How much time does it takes to remove a package? I uploaded one this morning at 9:30 UTC+2, removed short after but it is still there.
<__marco> The is an incompatibility with the source package and I am blocked
<acheronuk> what is the message in the email?
<__marco> File vde-netemu_20180929.orig.tar.gz already exists in virtualbricks, but uploaded version has different contents
<acheronuk> right. well you can never upload the same source file name with different contents in the same PPA. the PPA remembers the file hash for ever and will not permit it
<acheronuk> so you will have to increase/change the orig.tar name in some way
<__marco> acheronuk: I removed that package but the files are still there. And, by the way, the content is the same but it hashes differently. Different compression levels in different machines?
<__marco> I will increase the version
<acheronuk> it remembers even if you delete it ;)
<__marco> diabolic
<__marco> acheronuk: I abuse of your kindness. How would you upload the *same* package for different distributions?
<acheronuk> sensible if you think about it. it protects the consistency/integrity of any archive so you don't get altered source packages without any sign they have changed
<__marco> first I tried to use different distributions in the changelog. Didn't work
<__marco> I remember once upon a time I used to upload the orig for one distribution but not for others
<acheronuk> __marco: change the distribution in the changelog, then build and sign the new source package
<__marco> I forget how I did it and it was a personal repository, not launchpad
<__marco> acheronuk: but then I have to change the version too. The error is because I try to upload the same version for different distributions
<__marco> Did you try this:https://help.launchpad.net/Packaging/PPA/Uploading#Using_packages_from_other_distributions?
<acheronuk> yes, append a ~ version for different ubuntu series
<acheronuk> e.g. https://launchpad.net/~rikmills/+archive/ubuntu/latte-dock/+packages
<__marco> acheronuk: I see. Thank you
