#ubuntu-translators 2011-10-25
<TLE> dpm: hey
<TLE> dpm: I send you an email in stead
<dpm> hi TLE, sorry, wrapping up everything to fly out to Orlando tomorrow, I'll reply at the e-mail
<TLE> dpm, no worries
<TLE> short summary, I finished the schedule and proposed a few things for discussion on the UDS
<dpm> thanks TLE. Actually, do you want to add the discussion points to the roundtable's whiteboard there? -> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/community-p-translations-roundtable
<TLE> dpm: yes, if that is where you think it fits best. Just let me know when you have had time to look it over, and remember that if I should put it in the blueprint you should give me access to edit the blueprint as I don't have that per default
<dpm> TLE, you can put any discussion points on the whiteboard (everyone can write on the whiteboard). Regarding the language packs spec, it might deserve a separate session. Let me think about it in the next couple of days
<TLE> dpm: ahh yes, noted. Just let me know.
<Jessica_Lily> dpm Hey.. got any news on na'vi? :) (sorry i haven't been able to catch you recently)
<dpm> hi Jessica_Lily, no, I haven't been able to have a chat with pitti, the maintainer of the locales package. I'll try to do it next week when we're both at the same place at the Ubuntu Developer Summit
<Jessica_Lily> ahh okay :)
<Jessica_Lily> cool beans ^.^ thanks xx
<dpm> Jessica_Lily, no worries :). Again, to set expectations: the answer might well be "no, we cannot support na'vi unless upstream supports it too" (I prefer saying it beforehand than saying "yes, we'll do it" and then find out we can't)
<Jessica_Lily> dpm yeh i understandâ¦ if that happens I'm just going to write a script to yank all the translation phrases and a little site and a script na'vi folk can run on ubuntu installs to pull it in :P
<Jessica_Lily> its a hack ish but meh o well
<sagaci> um is this the na'vi you're talking about http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Na'vi_language
<Jessica_Lily> yep
<sagaci> so essentially it'd be another language to translate
<kelemengabor> dpm: hi, do you have a minute to talk about this langpack update?
<kelemengabor> I'm afraid this won't go on the intended way
<dpm> kelemengabor, I do now. Actually, I need to update you guys on this
<dpm> oh, why is that?
<kelemengabor> mdke wrote that he will upload a new package to -proposed
<kelemengabor> so that the export can pick up the new xml files
<kelemengabor> but, isn't the export scheduled to start on mondays?
<dpm> oh, bummer, yes, but:
<dpm> - Next week it's UDS, so people won't be that available as usual
<dpm> - Pitti is on holiday this Friday
<dpm> - He wanted to have the langpack wrapped up before he goes
<dpm> - So I requested a full export so that it's ready tomorrow and he can package the full langpack
<sagaci> new base pack, goodo
<kelemengabor> I see
<kelemengabor> then no need to hurry with ubuntu-docs
<kelemengabor> btw, wasn't our main goal to coordinate better with the docs team, so that the few full langpacks can contain translation updates? :P
<Jessica_Lily> sagaci correctâ¦ sorry for the late reply, I as afk
<sagaci> is it a language that real people use
<sagaci> sorry, I haven't seen Avatar
<Jessica_Lily> urrm well real people use it :P
<Jessica_Lily> blog in it, chat in it, etc..
<Jessica_Lily> sagaci i can provide some examples of it being used if you like
<sagaci> but I mean could you translate an operating system with it
<Jessica_Lily> sagaci: Na'vi only forum http://forum.learnnavi.org/ninavi-niaw/?PHPSESSID=eihbl0b9iv1b9ngcddv12isbe6 .. blog http://masempul.org/blog/ â¦ etc..
<Jessica_Lily> and yes you could
<Jessica_Lily> i mean there aren't words for everything but you could construct them by describing them or na'vifying the english word or whatever
<dpm> kelemengabor, yes, but my understanding was that any critical bugs with ubuntu-docs (such as langpack-o-matic not supporting mallard) had been addressed, and we needed to wrap up the update before pitti's holidays
<Jessica_Lily> so okay like for example "hard drive" could be sÃ¤omum zerok 'u (information remember thing)
<Jessica_Lily> I'm sure there would be better constructions for hard drive thats just an example
<Jessica_Lily> they have things like "computer" which is eltu lefngap
<Jessica_Lily> sagaci clear things up? :P
<sagaci> yeah, that's fine, just hadn't heard of it before
<Jessica_Lily> its fine :) i just thought i'd give you some examples ^.^
<Jessica_Lily> sagaci any other questions about the language or translating it let me know :)
<kelemengabor> dpm: sure, I remember seeing that bug, just tought we could do a proper update too
<kelemengabor> TLE: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/10/25/%23ubuntu-translators.html#t14:47
<dpm> we'll pick it up on the next scheduled update. No reason why it can't be a full one if we can coordinate an upload with the docs team
<kelemengabor> sure, I'd love to see that :)
<kelemengabor> I'm almost done with my translation :D
<sagaci> is there an available schedule of when full base packs are created
<kelemengabor> TLE: so, it looks like we need to change the schedule
<kelemengabor> sagaci: we have this: https://dev.launchpad.net/Translations/LanguagePackSchedule on when the individual exports happen during a week, and this: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Translations/OneiricLanguagePackReleaseSchedule on when during the cycle the updates happen
<kelemengabor> including the dates of full updates
<sagaci> so is there also a census date when translation will focus on the precise packages, - i know it's later in the cycle but is there a rough idea
<dpm> TLE, kelemengabor, we'll need to change the schedule on https://dev.launchpad.net/Translations/LanguagePackSchedule to accomodate the precise language packs after UDS, so while the Oneiric langpack update schedule looks fine, the actual days of the week might need to be tweaked to cater for that
<TLE> kelemengabor, dpm: I'm not quite sure I understand what the problem is
<kelemengabor> TLE: the langpacks scheduled for this week
<kelemengabor> are already exported
<kelemengabor> so the ubuntu-docs update, even if uploaded today, won't make it into
<kelemengabor> therefore, we need to make the next scheduled update another full update, so that this time it can contain the docs update
<TLE> ok, well then why don't schedule another full export for next week, if the only thing someone has to do is to copy the lang packs to proposed, that _should_ be possible, even during UDS
<dpm> let me talk with pitti
<dpm> kelemengabor, as a reminder, what does the -proposed ubuntu-docs upload solve?
<dpm> TLE, it should be possible, but remember, it's not about how little time it takes to do the task, it's about how many other tasks you've got going on in parallel :)
<TLE> dpm: I know
<kelemengabor> dpm: translation updates, and maybe artnays Ubuntu Desktop Guide problem
<kelemengabor> so nothing extra urgent, I'd say
<mdke> kelemengabor: seems to have been some great communication breakdown here
<mdke> kelemengabor: so despite all the emails, they have gone ahead with the language pack export early?
<kelemengabor> mdke: yes :(
<mdke> ok, I will send a whinge by email
<mdke> in any case please let me know when the next ubuntu-docs translation export should be
<kelemengabor> because it takes quite a few days for the whole process to take place
<mdke> if we have more time, I will hold off exporting the translations, so that translators can carry on their work
<kelemengabor> well, that would be great :)
<kelemengabor> we have however not decided what to do now
<kelemengabor> TLE wanted to make it happen next week, so that you would do your part now, and the export and build would happen early next week,
<kelemengabor> but dpm said this is unrealistic because of UDS busyness
<kelemengabor> and we should wait for the next scheduled date, which is 4 weeks from now
<mdke> gah
<mdke> ok, let me know what is decided
<mdke> I will in any event not do anything before the weekend now
<mdke> because it seems either way we can wait until then
<kelemengabor> but, this export had to happen, because the toolchain didn't supported mallard properly
<kelemengabor> sure, I will
<kelemengabor> I'd place my bet on the next scheduled date, which means you would have to do your upload 3 weeks from now - but I'll make sure you get notified by e-mail in time
<kelemengabor> and sorry for all the headaches :)
<mdke> not your fault!
<mdke> that's a bit of a pain because I wanted to do an ubuntu-docs upload anyway for other reasons, but it can probably wait
#ubuntu-translators 2011-10-26
<sagaci> i've come across a few select packages which are sharing translations, ie. mailman <-> ubuntu oneiric and smart package manager <-> ubuntu oneiric, I'm guessing it doesn't matter which one I translate since they'll both benefit...?
#ubuntu-translators 2011-10-27
<kelemengabor> New langpacks in oneiric-proposed \o/
<TLE> kelemengabor: nice, I'll ask for confirmation from pitti that they are all there and send out emails to the list
<kelemengabor> TLE: okay
<TLE> kelemengabor: hey
<kelemengabor> TLE: pong
<TLE> Was there something about some translations that was not included in the release at all, that should now be distributed via the lang packs?
<kelemengabor> hm, IIRC deja-dup help was one such
<kelemengabor> but others don't come into my mind
<TLE> ok
<kelemengabor> btw, that one is fixed now
<TLE> yes, that is what I wanted to say in the call for testing email ;)
<kelemengabor> TLE: somehow, I'm unhappy with the update schedule. I mean one full update on week 2, and one on week 34? Nothing in between?
<TLE> kelemengabor: that was what we discussed, but since it is the first time we do it, it is of course entirely possible that it is not optimal
<kelemengabor> TLE: I'd like to see one more full update, for example the third one, so that slower teams can reach&release full docs translations before focus is completely switched to Precise
<kelemengabor> I'll complain on the ML, so that dpm sees it too :)
<TLE> please in the coordination list, I don't want to take focus away from the fact that we have a schedule and thet people are supposed to start testing
<TLE> in any case, it probably wont be the third update, since IIRC that coincides with some ubuntu engineering event, where most developers will be busy
<TLE> but maybe we could split 5 up into 4 and 6 or something
<kelemengabor> TLE: okay, I won't distract people :)
<TLE> kelemengabor: well it is just so easy to turn focus on a ML
<kelemengabor> btw, what if the third one is colliding with an event? we are writing the schedule: delay it by a week! :)
<TLE> kelemengabor: well, it was only a problem for a full update, they didn't think it was a problem for a delta pack, therefore I saw no reason to deviate from the 2, 6, 12, 22 schedule, but off course of we want a full one there we will move it
<TLE> but I would like a but discussion of it first, so that we are relatively sure, writing calendars in wiki tables and moving objects around in my google calendars are not among my favorite accupations
<TLE> ;)
<TLE> afk coffee
<kelemengabor> artnay: mdke: my mind will soon blow up: http://people.ubuntu.com/~kelemeng/pix/udg.png
<kelemengabor> we will never get rid of bug #814822 :(
<ubot4> Launchpad bug 814822 in yelp-tools (Ubuntu) (and 2 other projects) ""Ubuntu Desktop Guide" message is not translated (affects: 2) (heat: 12)" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/814822
<kelemengabor> erm, this gets stranger every day: the string is not present in the pot file in bzr, but it is present in the po files
<paultag> So, how much paperwork will I have to file for a new locale and translation rights?
<paultag> or at the very least, fork all the translations to a local branch
<paultag> either en_MA.utf-8 or en_US.utf-8@BOS
<mdke> kelemengabor: sorry, this one has me completely stumped. Is the problem caused by the image? If so maybe we should remove the image
<kelemengabor> mdke: no, not the image
<kelemengabor> I have no idea why is it happening
<kelemengabor> the upstream branch is okay
<kelemengabor> the ubuntu one is not
<mdke> usually the only solution when something like this happens is to ask shaunm
<mdke> he is the only person who understands enough
<kelemengabor> and yet, the po files contain the string
<mdke> or do you think this is a Launchpad issue?
<kelemengabor> mdke: the strange thing is that when I do a make pot on the ubuntu branch, it extracts the string correctly
<mdke> I'm wondering if the pot file which gets exported when I take translations from Launchpad is different to the one which is produced by "make pot" - is that possible?
<kelemengabor> mdke: I'd be surprised, but nothing is impossible
<kelemengabor> do you commit that too?
<mdke> yes, probably it overwrites the pot in the branch
<mdke> this is the string, right? http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-doc/ubuntu-docs/oneiric/revision/50
<mdke> (see the change to index.page on that diff)
<kelemengabor> yes
<mdke> how many languages have you tested it in?
<kelemengabor> well, I have installed a few
<kelemengabor> in the latest langpack, sl has it translated, and the others (hu, fi, es, de) present but not translated in the page file
<kelemengabor> and in lauchpad, it is present in all languages, at least now
<kelemengabor> so the only mystery is, why is it not present in the pot?
<mdke> look at this from hu.po
<mdke> http://paste.ubuntu.com/721126/
<mdke> it seems not to be translated?
<mdke> in sl, if I open sl/index.page in yelp, it works
<mdke> so maybe sl is ok
<kelemengabor> it is
<mdke> ok, so why is the problem not as simple as "the string isn't translated in other languages"
<kelemengabor> so in theory, now the po files are good
<kelemengabor> hm, wait
<mdke> in fi, the story seems to be the same as hu - the string isn't translated in the po file
<kelemengabor> the imported pot file is generated by launchpad, not the one stored in bzr, which is old
<kelemengabor> then now everything is right, I'll close that bug
<kelemengabor> sorry for the noise
<mdke> hang on
<mdke> what are you saying is old?
<kelemengabor> https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/oneiric/+source/ubuntu-docs/+imports - this one is imported, and all good
<kelemengabor> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/oneiric/ubuntu-docs/oneiric/files/head:/ubuntu-help/
<kelemengabor> the one here is old
<mdke> but that one isn't relevant, what matters is the one in the ubuntu-docs bzr branch
<kelemengabor> and because it is for 11.10.4, not 11.10.5, which is the latest update
<kelemengabor> yep, this confused me
<mdke> ok, we're getting there
<mdke> so what seems to have happened is that an old version of the pot file was broken
<kelemengabor> it is just me, confusing things
<mdke> and now it's ok, but loads of languages don't have it translated?
<kelemengabor> yes
<kelemengabor> and yes
<mdke> we should tell the translators
<mdke> maybe the change came through late for some reason
<mdke> the problem is that the next documentation langpack update is like 9 months away on the basis of the current timetable :(
<kelemengabor> I have already complained on the UTC list about the timetable
<mdke> tell me something. Is making the langpack a "full" update very work intensive?
<kelemengabor> I think it is reasonable to have one more update, but I got no answer yet
<mdke> why aren't they all "full"
<kelemengabor> work intensive: I can't really tell, as far as I know
<kelemengabor> dpm has to tick a box here: https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/oneiric/+language-packs (because he has permission)
<kelemengabor> and then tell pitti to manually fetch the export and run the package generator woodoo
<kelemengabor> delta langpacks are fully automatic in this regard
<mdke> I see. Well, let me know what the outcome is
<kelemengabor> and the reason for their existence is IIRC that they mean smaller load on the infrastructure in terms of export/build/bandwidth
<mdke> I agree with you that some more "full" updates would be warranted unless there is a downside which we don't appreciate
<mdke> ah
<kelemengabor> or so has told ArneGoetje a few UDS back
<kelemengabor> one more question comes into my mind
<kelemengabor> so, we have now the upstream ubuntu-docs project to translate, and the ubuntu package. which one is the real deal, that gets packaged?
<mdke> (I've marked that bug as fixed btw)
<kelemengabor> I'm not sure that I understand the whole workflow here :(
<mdke> the upstream project
<mdke> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-translators/2011-May/004756.html
<kelemengabor> oops, I think I missed this one
<mdke> :)
<kelemengabor> thanks!
<mdke> I was quite reluctant to make the move because of confusion like this, but I saw many other projects had also done it, and it provided some advantages for us
<mdke> feel free to document it everywhere you can!
<mdke> ok, thanks for the help, I'm going to get to bed
<kelemengabor> I'll do! good night!
<mdke> good night
#ubuntu-translators 2011-10-28
<artnay> I don't think bug #814822 is that simple as "wasn't translated". the following string ( <media type="image" mime="image/png" width="16" height="16" src="figures/ubuntu-logo.png">Help</media> Ubuntu Desktop Guide) appeared first time like 10 days ago so it was a post-release update to translation template and hence there wasn't time to translate it before NonLangPackFreeze.
<ubot4> Launchpad bug 814822 in yelp-tools (Ubuntu) (and 2 other projects) ""Ubuntu Desktop Guide" message is not translated (affects: 2) (heat: 12)" [Low,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/814822
<mdke> artnay:
<mdke> 23:13:34 < mdke> we should tell the translators
<mdke> 23:13:48 < mdke> maybe the change came through late for some reason
<artnay> mdke: but has there been an update to yelp/ubuntu-help/some package after the 18th of Oct in -proposed? I haven't seen one (might have missed it, though...)
<mdke> artnay: the translations of ubuntu-help are provided by the langpacks
<mdke> the latest langpacks contain new translations
<mdke> artnay: why do you ask?
<artnay> mdke: because https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NonLanguagePackTranslationDeadline lists ubuntu docs as NonLanguagePackTranslationDeadline
<mdke> artnay: I don't really follow the reasoning
<artnay> mdke: and the Slovenian translation was done on the 18th of Oct and I haven't received affected translation updates since then although I use the main server and I have -proposed enabled
<artnay> therefore it's a bit mystery to me how Slovenian translation has that string translated if there hasn't been updates that should fix the problem
<mdke> ah, I follow you now
<artnay> but as I said, there could have been updates which I just haven't noticed
<mdke> ok, the answer is that there have been updates in the last couple of days
<mdke> with the langpacks
<mdke> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-translators/2011-October/005061.html
<artnay> mdke: ok, that's fine. so after the next langpack update that problem should be fixed, right? (assuming that string is now translated on LP)
<mdke> artnay: after the next FULL langpack update - because only full langpacks include documentation
<mdke> artnay: at the moment as per the schedule that is not until June 2012, but myself and Gabor were saying that there should be one sooner
<mdke> that's certainly my opinion anyway
<artnay> mdke: that would be great. well, at least we now have 75 % translated when it comes to oneiric docs. let's just hope there won't be much changes to precise docs...
<artnay> without any kind of fuzzy translations feature on LP, docs translating is painful when it comes to long sentences.
<mdke> artnay: I know. There isn't anything that I can do about it myself, but I do sympathise
<mdke> artnay: I would imagine that precise shouldn't be too different from oneiric in terms of features; at least in theory
#ubuntu-translators 2011-10-29
<mdke> is it a problem if you upload a po file to Launchpad for a template where that po file has a lot of common strings with the target template, but also a lot of strings that are not in common?
<trijntje> mdke: I dont think so, I believe it will just discard all non-matching translations
<trijntje> however, its probably better if you do this yourself, using msgmerg. If you do that you also get the 'fuzzy' translations, which can safe a lot of work if there have been only minor changes in the original text
<mdke> trijntje: understood. I have tried it both ways to see how many fuzzy there are
<LA2> I want to improve the looks of runic fonts, á á¡á¢á£á¤á¥á¦á§á¨. Do you know where I should turn for font development for new scripts?
#ubuntu-translators 2012-10-23
<dpm> trijntje, I saw you signed up for an Ubuntu Open Week session to talk about translation teams. Good work!
<trijntje> dpm: thanks! Together with hannie, I hope it goes well ;)
<dpm> I'm sure it will :)
<dpm> I'll be following the session, let me know if there's anything I can help with
<trijntje> dpm: thanks, I will if something comes up
#ubuntu-translators 2012-10-25
<kelemengabor> hi dpm, got a minute?
<dpm> hi kelemengabor, sure
<kelemengabor> I'm looking at the UDS schedule - there is nothing on i18n/l10n, or is it just me?
<dpm> kelemengabor, there isn't anything on it, no, as this time round I'm leading the app dev track. However, if there are people interested in translations sessions I'll organize a roundtable
<dpm> I should probably do it anyway, as we need to discuss who'll take care of the i18n infrastructure for language packs, now that pitti has moved from the desktop team to QA
<kelemengabor> that would be a good start... I'm still going to go there to talk about i18n :)
<kelemengabor> do we, for example, have langpack update schedule? Someone asked yesterday and I could not cound any.
<kelemengabor> this could be a topic for a "sustainable translations" session
<dpm> kelemengabor, no we don't have a schedule yet - I put up a skeleton page for 12.10 the other day, but it's just a copy of 12.04 for now: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Translations/ReleaseSchedule
<dpm> kelemengabor, will you be there in person?
<kelemengabor> yes!
<dpm> ah, awesome!
<dpm> you got sponsored?
<kelemengabor> do you know about other localizers going?
<kelemengabor> yes
 * dpm didn't look at the sponsored attendees list this time round
<dpm> I don't know of any, I wasn't involved in sponsoring this time around
<dpm> let me just send an e-mail to the translators list
<kelemengabor> thanks
<kelemengabor> I saw Sergio Zanchetta in the CC list of the sponsorship mails, but not others
<dpm> trijntje, good work with the translations session :)
#ubuntu-translators 2012-10-26
<kelemengabor> hey dpm
<kelemengabor> check this out: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/community-r-sustainable-translations
<kelemengabor> opinions? :)
<dpm> kelemengabor, approved! :-)
<dpm> I really need to go now, but I'll be back after the break and read the scrollback if there is anything else
<trijntje> dpm: thanks, it was eerie quiet in the classrom though ;)
<dpm> trijntje, yeah, you never know with IRC sessions. Sometimes there are more questions, sometimes there aren't, but good job nevertheless, I hope you enjoyed it
<trijntje> it was nice to give a talk, hopefully some people will read the logs as well
#ubuntu-translators 2012-10-27
<Tranzistors> Hi all, I noticed that some packages, that are translated in launchpad are not translated in Ubuntu 12.10. Am I missing something?
<kelemengabor> hi Tranzistors. This is probably a bug you see, but without exact package names, I could only guess. you might want to file a bug report under https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-translations/
<Tranzistors> kelemengabor, thanks for info
<Tranzistors> I didn't know against which module to report
<Tranzistors> Filed the report https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-translations/+bug/1072200
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1072200 in Ubuntu Translations "Missing translations for packages, that are translated in Launchpad" [Undecided,New]
#ubuntu-translators 2012-10-28
<kelemengabor> dpm: hi, how are you, arrived okay? :)
