#ubuntu-manual 2010-08-02
<humphreybc> heh, docbook made the "hate" wall at GUADEC. http://www.flickr.com/photos/qense/4849380478/in/photostream/
<thorwil> morning!
<humphreybc> hey Thorsten
<humphreybc> up early
<thorwil> heh, well it's 9 here
<nisshh> humphreybc: hey, got a minute?
<humphreybc> nisshh: yea
<nisshh> humphreybc: oh, wait nevermind, you already added a testimonial to my wiki page, oops :)
<humphreybc> heh
<humphreybc> i have to do a few of those
 * nisshh is not entirely awake yet :)
<nisshh> yea
<humphreybc> isn't it the evening?
 * nisshh slept during the day today, all nighter last night
<nisshh> its 3:37PM here
<humphreybc> right
<thorwil> if aquarius joins, does that mean that the moon is in the seventh house and jupiter aligns with mars?
<nisshh> thorwil: hehe
<nisshh> thorwil: i thought it meant we had to congregate and chant "the end is near!"
<thorwil> nah, time for harmony and understanding, sympathy and trust abounding
<nisshh> lol
<nisshh> thorwil: you sound like a pacifist :)
<vish> nisshh: right , he just 'sounds' like one ;p
<nisshh> vish: hehe
<humphreybc> ha
 * thorwil hands vish a flower for his hair, so he can go to san francisco
<nisshh> heh
<nisshh> aquarius: hey, quick question
<aquarius> nisshh, hey
<nisshh> aquarius: iv been thinking about using desktopcouch attachments in my pytask app, but i cant test to see if the attachments themselves get synced along with the databases, do they?
<aquarius> they do
<nisshh> ah cool
<nisshh> wasnt sure
<nisshh> aquarius: also, i assume that the attachments can be any sort of file?
<nisshh> text, image, etc?
<aquarius> yes
<nisshh> cool
<nisshh> aquarius: thanks dude, thats all i needed to know
<aquarius> if you're storing lots of stuff in attachments or large files you may want to think about storing those files in Ubuntu One file sync and just storing the paths in Dc
<nisshh> ah yea
<nisshh> aquarius: well, thats a per user thing, i was thinking of adding a neat little feature that allowed users to add attachments to tasks, but yea i guess large files qould be a problem
<nisshh> aquarius: ok, thanks, this has given me alot to think about and some code to write
<nisshh> :)
<aquarius> no problem :)
<vish> aquarius: lol! "one of Pavlov's dogs" :)
<aquarius> indeed. :)
<jenkins> evening all
<nisshh> jenkins: well, 4am in my case :)
<jenkins> nisshh: good luck tomorrow I will not be there unfortunatly
<thorwil> nisshh: membership board? what time (utc)?
<nisshh> jenkins: thanks, im not sure that ill get membership, but im hoping
<jenkins> well you can only find out :)
<nisshh> thorwil: 10am UTC on tuesday (today or tomorrow, depends on your timezone)
<nisshh> in #ubuntu-meeting
<nisshh> jenkins: yea
<nisshh> thorwil: hope to see you there if you can make it
<nisshh> thorwil: if not, no worries, there should be a few others coming :)
<thorwil> hmm, we'll see :=
<nisshh> hehe
<jenkins> daker: whats the status of the quickshot website?
<daker> 75%
<jenkins> cool thanks, we have www.quickshot.org now
<jenkins> an act of kindness from someone
<daker> Woow
<daker> flan, and you ?
<thorwil> good night!
<flan> o.o
<flan> No updates from me.
<daker> flan, what ?
<daker> :D oh cool
<flan> Still in a random state of no-Internet-at-home.
<flan> If this persists once I actually have my network set up again, I'll just write code offline and commit it from work.
<flan> It's been over a month since I last did anything. :(
<jenkins> nisshh: did you know pytask has been mentioned in a blog post? http://www.johnhamelink.com/2010/07/linux-apps-freelancers/ I think this was also linked to on omgubuntu
<nisshh> jenkins: yea, i saw that earlier today
<nisshh> pretty cool
<nisshh> that link was down most of today, but its back up now
<nisshh> finally
<jenkins> yea just spoken to the site owner his vps crashed because of it
<nisshh> hehe
<nisshh> jenkins: why is it that the criticism about Pytask is always about features im about to release in the next version?
<nisshh> seriously, why is that? :)
<jenkins> well it shows that you are devloping in the right direction
<nisshh> yea true
<nisshh> :)
<nisshh> jenkins: was funny last night
<nisshh> jenkins: me and rick were talking about the dev manual on irc
<jenkins> go on..
<jenkins> o right what did you discuss
<nisshh> and we were working on a chapter together
<nisshh> simplifying it
<jenkins> cool
<nisshh> and he said
<nisshh> "should we remove this word and this word?"
<nisshh> and at the EXACT same second i said "we should remove that word and that word"
<jenkins> lol
<nisshh> and we were talking about the same words
<nisshh> so
<nisshh> iv concluded that i have the gift of foresight :)
<jenkins> I think you may do :)
<nisshh> hehe
<nisshh> jenkins: also, im working hard to get as much done by maverick release as possible, have you any idea when you can get some content written?
<jenkins> I will try to do some later this week, whats the page with the chapters on? Also how are we liking this in with the sample program
<jenkins> *linking
<nisshh> jenkins: you can get the chapters that rick wrote at his website: www.rickspencer3.com
<nisshh> jenkins: i am still thinking about how we are going to link the sample app and the chapters, need to do it right the first time i think
<jenkins> I think that untill we get our heads around how to link it in then there is not much point writting as we will just end up adjusting so much.
<nisshh> well, yea
<nisshh> BUT
<jenkins> I am not sure that the app idea works in comparison to the level of these chapters
<nisshh> explain
<jenkins> well the app is relatively  simple on the scale of things but the existing chapters by rick are very detailed there needs to be a blance between the two
<nisshh> yea
<nisshh> iv been working on the python crash course chapter
<nisshh> the initial version by rick was complicated as hell
<nisshh> had words like nesting and main base class
<nisshh> among other more complex words
<nisshh> jenkins: so your saying we need to simplify the chapters more so they fit with the app better?
<nisshh> provide only the necessary information to create the app?
<jenkins> good that does need simplifying, I think with such a simple app we will not be teaching enough detail to people about the main fetures of glade. I think we may be scrap the app or make it more complex or make the manual even simpler
<jenkins> or other python stuff
<jenkins> I am just not sure we have the target audience right
<nisshh> go on...
<jenkins> the app is aimed at novices right
<nisshh> well, according to rick last night the first chapter (intro to python) is aimed at programmers migrating to python
<nisshh> which i was a bit confused about
<jenkins> but the chapters so far go into lots of detail expecting people to know stuff already. They either need more explination or it needs two manuals, intorduction and advanced
<nisshh> because i thought this was supposed to be ultra simple the the other manual
<jenkins> yea thats where I am confused.
<nisshh> yea
<nisshh> i think the target audience should primarily be new programmers
<nisshh> with a secondary being existing programmers who want to learn about glade/python/gtk
<nisshh> but probably not two manuals
<jenkins> well yes thats what has to be decided, but just to play devils advocate how much detail do you go into in the second part?
<nisshh> a fair bit
<nisshh> it has examples of things like for loops without first explaining what a for loop is
<nisshh> explains lambda
<nisshh> basic math
<jenkins> prehaps we could do an intorduction to python recomend some free online books for further reading, then go into the different programs avalible
<nisshh> jenkins: at the start of the chapter 2 books and the python docs are mentioned
<jenkins> cool fair enough
<nisshh> all free books
<nisshh> yea
<nisshh> i think the intro to python chapter should focus on examples and code that are required to create and code up the example app
<jenkins> so we are trying to write a book with two aims, encorage new devlopers and get people who are devloping else where to work on ubuntu?
<nisshh> but rick did say that i did not intend to just hand the reader the required code and be done with it
<nisshh> and i agree with that
<nisshh> yes, essentially
<nisshh> id say the main aim is to attract new developers though, thats what rick and jono always talk about
<nisshh> jenkins: i think we need to have a talk about this with rick
<jenkins> I agree that we should not give people the exact code, I am just thinking that there is so much to know when writing an ap I learn something new every time I work on quickshot.
<nisshh> yea
<nisshh> but we had that same problem with the other manual
<jenkins> I am not trying to be difficult just need a better understanding of the aim/direction
<jenkins> thats kinda my point
<nisshh> your not being difficult, your making my brain think more
<nisshh> :)
<jenkins> I think we need a definitive list of what topics should go in each chapter, ket me find my example
<nisshh> yea...
<nisshh> jenkins: i should go to bed soon, ill stay on for another 15 minutes, but then i need to go to sleep :)
<jenkins> cool it was somthing ila asked me to do for my chapters in the manual
<nisshh> yea
<jenkins> ilya*
<nisshh> its on the wiki isnt it? i did the same for mine
<jenkins> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-manual/Blueprints/DefaultApps
<nisshh> ah yes
<jenkins> I did not see yours it is on an old wiki page
<nisshh> mine is there somewher
<jenkins> we do have some stuff on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/10.10/DeveloperManual but it all refers to old chapters
<nisshh> yea
<jenkins> I will let you go to bed anyway
<nisshh> i havent cleaned that up yet
<jenkins> I will make sure i do the wuickly chapter and have a look at the existing stuff for galde
<nisshh> jenkins: yea, its nearly 6am here, so ill get about an horus sleep then i have to go to tafe anyway :)
<jenkins> night o/
<nisshh> ok thanks jenkins
<nisshh> ill talk to you later today/tomorrow :)
<jenkins> thank you
<nisshh> hehe
<nisshh> gnight :)
<jenkins> has anyone seen ben recently
<dutchie> not really
<jenkins> I have just sent him an e-mail
<jenkins> daker: i loved the statistics about the website how did you make them?
<daker> jenkins, it's google analytics
<daker> jenkins, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Analytics
<jenkins> they are very cool I like stats, we will have to sort that out for www.quickshot.org
<daker> sure
<jenkins> o man I just rembered what I was doing last in quickshot. I have to work out how to do that
<daker> \o/
<jenkins> no its not good I need to learn about  windows inheriting properties from a python file so that they all have the same menu bar. I have not done quickshot work in ages
<jenkins> we have apport support but I need to work out how to package that so that it goes to the right place.
 * jenkins starts a list
<jenkins> well this is interesting if i do sudo find / -name quickshot-crashdb.conf it returns etc/appot/crashdb.conf.d/quickshot-crashdb.conf if I navigate to the folder in nautilus i don't see the file doing ls in the folder shows the file is not there so is it there?
<dutchie> is it readable only by root or something?
<daker> jenkins, have you tried : ALT+F2 then gksu nautilus /etc/appot/crashdb.conf.d/   ?
<jenkins> daker: its there! I had not thought of that, now I have to work out why the package is doing that
<jenkins> thanks
<daker> good
<dutchie> i suspect it's a security thing to do with not showing $RANDOM_USER the contents of your core dump
<jenkins> hmm well I *think* every user has to be able to see the file, I need to work out why another file is not being packaged at all
#ubuntu-manual 2010-08-03
 * daker will have an oral examination for his thesis tomorrow :D
<dutchie> good luck
<daker> thanks
<daker> night all
<daker> o/
<thorwil> good morning!
<godbyk> Hey, thorwil!
<zkriesse> hey thorwil and godbyk
<godbyk> thorwil: I updated the German PDF. Could you glance through it and check to see that the Ã and umlauts appear as they should? http://builds.ubuntu-manual.org/builds/ubuntu-manual-de-screen.pdf
 * thorwil gets the file
<godbyk> If everything looks okay, I'll update the lulu.com edition and the PDFs on our website.
<godbyk> (Hopefully no one's been linking directly to the lulu.com url as I think it'll be invalid when I upload a new PDF.)
<thorwil> revision number 909? techno party!
 * godbyk queues up the music!
<thorwil> godbyk: page 9, "Linuxdistributionen", the "distributionen" part is italic?!
<thorwil> godbyk: on the same page there's a "(GUIS)". thanks to the small caps, one can't tell if that's a small s. it should be. easy way out would be to not use plural
<godbyk> thorwil: Even weird!  Only the 'distribution' bit is italicized.  The code looks like this: Linux\emph{distribution}en
<thorwil> awesome
<godbyk> Yeah.
<godbyk> Regarding the GUIs bug: It is a lowercase 's' because the German translation doesn't have a plural={...} bit for the GUI glossary entry.
<thorwil> page 9, 2 times "Ã¤hnlichkeiten" should be "Ãhnlichkeiten"
<godbyk> Looks like the original was Ã¤ instead of Ã.  (I wanted to make sure I didn't accidentally convert \"A to Ã¤ when I converted from LaTeX to Unicode.)
<thorwil> saw a Ubu-ntu hyphenation. that's ... unfortunate
<godbyk> I should add that to the German hyphenation list.
<godbyk> What kind of weird hyphenation rules do you Germans use that would allow LaTeX to think that 'ntu' could stand on its own line?
<godbyk> Weirdos!
<thorwil> lots of cases where we could use italics instead of quotation marks
<thorwil> godbyk: afaik we used to have rather complicated hyphenation rules, but now it's do it where ever you want and never change spelling before/after hyphen
<godbyk> Okay, this is ominous.. searching the German translations on Launchpad shows that it was originally Ãhnlichkeiten and not Ã¤hnlichkeiten.
<godbyk> I think po4a is munging things big time.
<thorwil> while getting rid of the special cases is great, hyphens cutting in syllables is weird to read
<godbyk> thorwil: You guys used to have cool rules about adding an extra k or g when splitting after a k or g and other fun things.  (Or something like that.)
<thorwil> yeah
<godbyk> Wait, you guys are allowed to split words at places other than between syllables?
<godbyk> That's crazy.
<godbyk> Okay, das ist nicht gut.
<thorwil> heh
<godbyk> There are other Ãs that are now Ã¤.
<thorwil> godbyk: well, there are cases where it's not obvious what the syllables are and proper hyphenation could depend on the base of a word. more flexibility there i great. no german with any feeling for the language would hyphenate such that the resulting parts are something you can't speak easily. so no Ubu-ntu!
<thorwil> godbyk: i guess same for Ã and Ã, then
<thorwil> too bad we have no properly rounded corners on the screenshots
<godbyk> thorwil: quite possibly.  I don't see any Ã in the .tex file at the moment. that doesn't bode well.
<thorwil> flan: ever looked into applying an alpha mask to the screenshots to take care of the rounded corners?
<thorwil> godbyk: is there no german editor supposed to be doing QA?
<godbyk> Well, there is a German translation editor.  That's who was emailing the list all the time asking if it was ready to be published yet.
<thorwil> the umlaut capitalization issue stands out, as our writers seem to do capitalization very well. after writing more english than german, i got rather insecure there. love the english simplicity
<godbyk> yeah, the capitalized nouns are a bit much.
<godbyk> reminds me of Victorian-era writing where you just capitalize the Important Words as you see fit.
<thorwil> the &szlig; is fine, saw no stray slashes so far
<godbyk> I just ran po4a and had it generate a new .tex file.  the umlauts, Ã, and capitalization have been preserved. so something else changed them.
 * godbyk is investigating.
<godbyk> that's good, at least.
<thorwil> godbyk: page 28, margin note:  "InKapitel 4: Hardware", missing space after "In"
<godbyk> Looking at the bzr logs, it appears that the German translation was screwed up when Daniel (the translation editor) added it to the repository.
<godbyk> So something that he did during his editing process appears to have mangled the accents and capitalization.
<thorwil> godbyk: page 29: "um in ein Verzeichnis mit Beispieldokumenten, -Tabellen und -Multimediadateien zu gelangen.". line wrap happens after "-" and before "Tabellen", but it absolutely must be "-Tabellen"
<godbyk> the InKapitel bug is in the original translation.  (Code is "In\chaplink{...}...")
<thorwil> godbyk: page 32, "Bearbeiten â£ Ausschneiden." breaks out of the box
<godbyk> that's something LaTeX did, it seems.  we can tell LaTeX to keep the -Tabellen together as one word, though (so it doesn't get wrapped post-hyphen).
<godbyk> wow. that one breaks out quite a bit!
<godbyk> well, crap.
<godbyk> there's a lot more wrong than the Ã.  :-(
<godbyk> I was hoping it'd be a quick find/replace, recompile, upload, done.
<thorwil> godbyk: page 33: "kÃ¶nÌnen", note n with dots, this ain't some scandinavian language! ;)
<godbyk> unfortunately, there's a LOT wrong with this thing.
<thorwil> godbyk: and i'm only skimming
<godbyk> thorwil: I know!
<godbyk> I don't speak German and from my skimming there's a bunch of things I'd want to fix!
<godbyk> Since I don't speak all the languages we're translating to, I have to rely on the translation editors to be perfectionists about spelling, grammar, typography, etc.
<godbyk> Unfortunately, I doubt that most people are as picky as we are.
<thorwil> godbyk: page 34: wrong quotation marks on âErscheinungsbildâ
<godbyk> (There's a bunch of things I want to fix in the original English edition for that matter. I just have to find time to do it.)
<thorwil> godbyk: page 37, qu.-marks again: âHilfstechnologie Einstellungenâ
<godbyk> whoops.. the quotes are my bad. :)
<godbyk> all the window captions/titles will have the ``English quotes''.
<thorwil> godbyk: page 48, what's with the strange parenthesis on e.g. â¨Verbindungsnameâ©?
<godbyk> Ah, the idea is that it's a placeholder/variable.
<thorwil> i stop now at about page 50. takes too long
<godbyk> I hear ya.
<godbyk> I guess I'm going to have to bounce this back to Daniel and have him fix the capitalization of the umlauts.
<godbyk> Something he did before uploading the .tex file converted all the unicode characters to latex-style commands (e.g., from Ã¤ to \"a).
<thorwil> ok
<godbyk> thorwil: Are there other major (and consistent) flaws that need to be fixed in the manual besides the capital umlauted letters?
<thorwil> godbyk: the quotation marks
<godbyk> okay.
<godbyk> I'm writing an email to Daniel to have him fix the umlauts. I'll fix the quotation marks myself.
<godbyk> I'll have him check that all the glossary entries have proper plurals, too.
<nisshh> godbyk: if yuor there, the membership meeting is in 50 minutes
<nisshh> thorwil: ^^^ if you can make it :)
<thorwil> nisshh: lunch time here, but i'll be around a bit later, likely
<nisshh> thorwil: cool
<humphreybc> nisshh: you're applying for membership?
<humphreybc> slash, you did
 * humphreybc just looked at the time
<nisshh> humphreybc: yea, but Vantrax is sick, and not many board members have turned up, so its looking like postponed
<thorwil> humphreybc: membership board meeting would have been now, but no quorum
<nisshh> :(
<humphreybc> ok
<dutchie> ooh, a humphreybc
<dutchie> haven't seen any of those for a while
<humphreybc> lol
<nisshh> humphreybc: yep, meeting postponed :(
<zkriesse> lol
<thorwil> http://whatthefuckismysocialmediastrategy.com/
<humphreybc> hahaha
<thorwil> great: "After 15 minutes of joking around about how OMG! guys are rich, befriended Steve Jobs and like Windows 8 (and GNOME-related trolling) we decided to continue..."
<flan> thorwil, yeah. I've actually written a provision into the server's logic (for when I actually have time to start comitting again) that will allow a number of "cleanup scripts" to be executed to transform an image while it's being screened for approval. Drawing borders and masking the corners are part of one such script that'll be included by default.
<thorwil> flan: excellent
<flan> I hope to have homish Internet by next week.
<flan> Early next week.
<flan> Life without Internet makes me sad.
<thorwil> flan: don't worry, life with internet can be quite sad, too
#ubuntu-manual 2010-08-04
<thorwil> there goes the noo
<nisshh> thorwil: huh?
<thorwil> nisshh: * vishnoo is now known as vish
<nisshh> ah, lol
<vish> ;p
<nisshh> thought you had gone insane and was rambling :)
<vish> thorwil, something just messed up my xchat config and got logged in weirdly!
<thorwil> maybe it's a bit like the power rangers and noo will fight for justice on his own for a bit now!!
<nisshh> heh
<hannie> Another question about manual e1 and e2
<hannie> We translated 70 % in e1 and 53 % in e2
<hannie> Should we stop translating the 30 % of e1 and continue with e2?
<jenkins> hello nisshh I have made a start on the quickly chapter, with some help from didrocks blog. He said i could use it as a base (I asked), it was so well written I am adjusting it to fit our use. I am writing any missing bits as well.
<jenkins> Are we using the same latex commands as the ubuntu manual?
<jenkins> I have not just coppied and pasted his blog :P
<nisshh> jenkins: hey
<nisshh> wasnt looking at IRC for a minute there
<jenkins> no worries
<nisshh> jenkins: yea, just use the same stuff as in the ubuntu-manual
<jenkins> cool, some of didrocks blog covered what we want very well and I did not see the point in me rewriting it
<nisshh> jenkins: but, i was talking to godbyk the other day, and he told me not to use the /code command for code, he said to use the /terminal command instead
<jenkins> cool, glad you told me I was about to look that one up
<nisshh> jenkins: thats cool, as long as it fits with the sample app and the other chapters
<nisshh> jenkins: yea, according to rick i have foresight
<nisshh> :)
<jenkins> yea we still need to work out the whole sample app thing, quickly create ubuntu-aplication <name of sample app> is all that needs to be covered for this chapter
<nisshh> yea
<nisshh> jenkins: there is some stuff about releasing the sample app using quickly, its one of the last chapters
<jenkins> yep I was am going to leave quickly package and release for that capter
<jenkins> *chapter
<nisshh> cool
<nisshh> jenkins: iv finished tafe for the week, so ill be busy tommorrow doing some stuff around the house, but on fri, sat, sun, are you available so we can hopefully catch up with rick sometime and talk about what we are going to do?
<nisshh> with the sample app i mean
<jenkins> I think I will be around sometime then
<nisshh> he is currently at some conference somewhere, but he should be back this week
<nisshh> i hope...
<jenkins> right sounds like a plan
<nisshh> ok good
<nisshh> getting all my shit sorted tonight, so i know what im doing this week :)
<jenkins> I should go and tidy my room
<nisshh> jenkins: ok
<jenkins> bye o/
<jenkins> from #ubuntu "(22:21:25) elitexray: Oh I just wanted to tell them great job on Ubuntu's manual -- it's a very good read" I said I would pass it on
<askhl_> Hi.  The default ubuntu-manual offered for translation is the lucid-e2 one.  Has this recently changed?  I'm asking because for some reason we have more translated strings (*and* more suggestions) for lucid-e1.
<askhl_> Also, even the maverick edition has more translations and suggestions.  Surely something has gone wrong, no?
<godbyk> askhl_: The default translation should still be lucid-e1, afaik.  If that's changed recently, it's probably in error.  (Or I'm just out of the loop.)
<godbyk> Launchpad will notice the same strings in lucid-e1, e2, and maverick, and copy the translations from other branches and projects.
<godbyk> But most of those strings will be changing a bit from one edition to the next.
<godbyk> The e2 translation template hasn't been uploaded yet (again, as far as I know), so those strings will be old and out-dated.
<dutchie> i keep getting worrying emails that the e2 pot is getting uploaded
<jenkins> I changed the default to lucid-e1 about 9 days ago who changed it back to lucid-e2?
<dutchie> not me
<jenkins> ben changed it to lucid-e2 in the first place but we can't update it as po4 is being anoying so i put it back to lucid-e1. and we are still working on editon 2
<jenkins> its not frozen
 * jenkins sets it back
<jenkins> I have just had a chat to wgrant in #launchpad, I think it might be an idea to make up an ubuntu-manual-admins groups and make them the owner of the project, currently we have 448 members who can change https://translations.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/+settings , as long as we set the branches to ubuntu-manual owned everyone in the ubuntu-manual-team will be able to contribute still but not able to change setti
<jenkins> they can also change other setting pages
<dutchie> jenkins: sounds good to me
<dutchie> do you have enough rights to do that all yourself?
<jenkins> I can indeed should i run it past ben first?
<dutchie> probably
<godbyk> meh.. I vote for doing it. :)
<dutchie> not that he's around or anything
<godbyk> Especially since those notice emails don't give us enough info to know who made the change or why.
<jenkins> he has not responeded to my last e-mail, is he away?
 * godbyk votes for doing it before humpreybc comes back! ;-)
<godbyk> He was on last night.
<jenkins> yea i just checked the info on his nick
<jenkins> I think I will tell him first as I don't want it to be changed back
<jenkins> I think I will change the ppa to be owend by the new team if we do it, that way less people can upload to it.
<jenkins> godbyk: did you get any where with why my indexes had Japanese letters?
<godbyk> jenkins: good idea.
<godbyk> jenkins: no, I haven't.
<jenkins> it will break the latex ppa but that has that bug in it at the moment so I am not too worried.
<godbyk> but they're going to be releasing TeX Live 2010 in the next month or so.  Just a heads-up.
<jenkins> I am thinking ubuntu-manual-maintainers for the team. I better look at packaging that, it will be fun uploading it all to launchpad at home
<godbyk> no doubt.
<jenkins> it will take days :/
<godbyk> just pop into campus and upload from there.
<godbyk> that's what I always do.
<jenkins> I can't I will not be there for nearly a year :( as I am no placement
<jenkins> *on
<jenkins> e-mail sent
<godbyk> so you have a full year of nothing but ubuntu manual project to keep you busy?  nice!  ;-)
<jenkins> I wish that was the case I now have loads of scout stuff, and living at home has its distractions :( . I still have a ton of quickshot stuff to do
<jenkins> I am commuting 90mins a day
<jenkins> I will be doing my best to help though
<askhl_> godbyk, thank you for the answer, and sorry for running away so suddenly
<askhl_> also, will you do a new build of the manual soon? :)
<godbyk> askhl_: oh, sure.  I'll download the translations a bit later this evening and upload new PDFs.
<godbyk> jenkins: scout stuff?
<jenkins> yea, I am a scout leader here http://www.scouts.org.uk/ my home group needs alot of help /work to keep it going
<godbyk> ah, cool.
<askhl_> godbyk, great, thanks
<askhl_> Say, if you don't mind the endless questions, how many languages has the manual been released in?  Only Greek doesn't have a checkmark next to it on the builds page, while a few others are at 100%.  Some of them also have warnings etc.
<godbyk> Only Greek and German have been released.
<jenkins> german and english thats all so far
<godbyk> I haven't heard from the other translation editors yet.  I assume they're still editing/proofreading, but I don't know.
<askhl_> Okay, but they could expect you to release the manuals.  That's how things normally are with programs
<godbyk> askhl_: Yeah. I'm going to email the list later this week or this weekend to ask for status reports from the translation editors.
<askhl_> All right.  Is it the launchpad mailing list?  I'd better join
<askhl_> The thing is, since I haven't joined, it can't be assumed that they have either :)
<godbyk> Yeah, the mailing list hosted on Launchpad.
<godbyk> It's certainly possible that they haven't.
#ubuntu-manual 2010-08-05
<godbyk> jenkins: I responded to Phil's email. I'm not sure if I addressed his concerns or not, though.  I kind of started rambling.  And then stopped myself before going off on translations and how they're painful.
<jenkins> yea, I did also wonder how we would deal with the different writing styles, it had slipped my mind ages ago an I forgot about it
<godbyk> I don't think there's a really good answer.
<godbyk> But I think that sharing our docs still has a lot of benefit.
<godbyk> It'd certainly help us keep things in sync more easily than how we're doing it now.
<jenkins> I think your explanation is great! we all branch from the pool, we all help to maintain it and base our work on it
 * jenkins hopes he read it right
<godbyk> yeah, pretty much.
<godbyk> we have a common pool that we can pull from and contribute back to.
<godbyk> and the system will keep track of diffs and pedigree and the like.
<godbyk> so if one of us updates a doc because, say, the software has changed, then the docs derived from that one can be notified of the change so someone can update them accordingly.
<jenkins> I like it :D
<godbyk> and translations.. oh, man, there are so many things I think we should do to improve translations!
<jenkins> yea they are not the best
<godbyk> But before I go off on that topic too much, I'd prefer to sit down with some of our translators and get their opinions and ideas (since they're the ones who have to deal with it).
<jenkins> yep I agree, there is so much we would like to do we need like 20 of each of us
<godbyk> yeah.
<godbyk> working full-time. :)
<ChrisWoollard>                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 
<ChrisWoollard>                                                                                                                                               godbyk
<ChrisWoollard> hmm. that's werid
<ChrisWoollard> ping godbyk
<godbyk> Hey, ChrisWoollard.
<godbyk> What's up?
<jenkins> night all
<godbyk> askhl_: I think new builds of the manual are online now.  http://builds.ubuntu-manual.org/
<askhl_> godbyk, thank you
<godbyk> np
<humphreybc> hey so daker what's happening with the quickshot website and the new ubuntu manual website?
<daker> hi humphreybc
<daker> so i have just finished
<daker> http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1582176372&v=wall&story_fbid=120633797984533&ref=mf
<daker> i'll start working on them
<humphreybc> ahh
<humphreybc> cool :)
<dutchie> humphreybc: did you hear from jenkins about the reshuffle on LP?
<humphreybc> yep, sure did, told him to go ahead and do it
<daker> hey @all
<daker> what edition should be translated ?
<daker> e1 or e2 ?
<nisshh> daker: e1, until e2 is in writing freeze i think
<daker> when e2 freezes we have to retranslated everything ?
<nisshh> daker: im not sure, you should ask godbyk/humphreybc about that
<nisshh> but i assume so yea
<daker> nisshh, oki
<nisshh> daker: cool
<jenkins> dutchie: / godbyk /godbyk-sagan Ubuntu Manual Admins or Ubuntu Manual Maintainers ?
<jenkins> for the new group
<dutchie> admins gets my vote
<jenkins> yea I decided maintainers looked as if only we wrote it. admins it is
<jenkins> brb
<c7p> hello all
<zkriesse> Hello c7p
<jenkins> dutchie: / godbyk-sagan / godbyk https://edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-manual-admins
<jenkins> does it all look ok?
<dutchie> don't think it should be a public team
<dutchie> oh, it isn't
<dutchie> dunno why it says "Public team" at the top then
<jenkins> only admins can add people we are all admin in the team
<jenkins> I am not sure why it says public, otherwise people will not know which team to join if they can't see the link at the top of the page
<jenkins> now it looks better, I will go ahead an change it lets hope I don't break anything
<jenkins> right it is changed, lets wait and see if there are any complaints
<jenkins>  / breackages
<nisshh> jenkins: hey, you there?
<jenkins> yep
<nisshh> ok
<nisshh> was just reading my mail and saw the admin groupd for the manual
<nisshh> whats that about?
<nisshh> jenkins: ^^^^
<jenkins> its to stop settings pages like https://translations.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/+settings being changed by random people, we have had problems with it being changed and we don't know who did it
<nisshh> ah
<jenkins> all the branches still work and everything else is done by the normal team
<jenkins> brb
<nisshh> ok
<nisshh> i get it now, thanks jenkins :)
<jenkins> i was chatting on #launchpad to wgrant and that was the suggestion.
<jenkins> cool :)
<nisshh> yea
<jenkins> all the people in it are the admins for the manual team
<nisshh> yea
<jenkins> hopefully there are not any breakages with the changes
<nisshh> jenkins: lets hope so, but its unlikely given the fact that we are adding to the existing team, not subtracting
<nisshh> jenkins: plus, the fact that wgrant suggested leads me to believe that its been done before :)
<jenkins> well he did not directly suggest it he said something like you should not have a team that big owning a project
<godbyk> jenkins: I think the admins team page looks okay.
<godbyk> jenkins: Did you switch over the bzr commit access and translation stuff (permissions)?
<jenkins> godbyk: commit access still for the normal team ubuntu-manual
<jenkins> translation permissons and other settings are now only changed by the 7 people in the team. thats how it should work
<jenkins> godbyk: is there anything else that needs checking to see if it is correct?
<godbyk> I think those are the main two.
<godbyk> we haven't had any real problems with people committing stuff (that I recall).  primarily, I just don't like the translation stuff being changed randomly.
<jenkins> thanks godbyk, hopefully this will solve the problem
<jenkins> * help to
<nisshh> jenkins: btw, can you push your work on the dev manual to lp? id like to have a read, just to see what you have come up with
<jenkins> yea sure I have not done much but it is a start
<nisshh> cool
<nisshh> ill be doing a crapload of work on the dev manual today as well
<nisshh> jenkins: you know where the trunk branch is on lp right?
<jenkins> yea I am jsut pushing I had to make it to check for errors :)
<jenkins> pushed
<nisshh> ok cool
<jenkins> I just need to cover the 4 commads that were listed to go into that chapter
<nisshh> right
<nisshh> jenkins: did you forget to do bzr add?
<jenkins> yep :(
<nisshh> because your chapter isnt there :)
<nisshh> hehe
<nisshh> i ALWAYS forget to
<jenkins> pushed again
<nisshh> ok
<nisshh> godbyk: you there?
<godbyk> nisshh: yep. what's up?
<nisshh> godbyk: ah, you are there, cool, ok, i just was looking for how to format links in the dev manual, i cant find anything in the style guide about it
<nisshh> figured there must be some command for it
<godbyk> nisshh: what kind of links?  like URLs?  if so, try \url{http://blah.com/blah/blah.html}.
#ubuntu-manual 2010-08-06
<godbyk> brb
<nisshh> godbyk: ok, yea i meant URL's
<nisshh> ill try that command
<nisshh> godbyk: the \url command is fine, thanks :)
<godbyk> back
<godbyk> nisshh: great!
<nisshh> godbyk: i just had a thought the other day, it got me thinking, are the screenshots in the manual compressed? or just optimized? because i saw an image compressing app for linux the other day, so i just thought id ask
<nisshh> godbyk: and why the hell is that megan fox picture that ben put in the branch still there?
<nisshh> :)
<godbyk> nisshh: I'm not sure what sort of compression is being done with the screenshots.  jenkinks and the quickshot team would be the ones to ask.
<nisshh> yea
<godbyk> And Megan Fox is always welcome to hang around. ;-)
<nisshh> hehe
<nisshh> godbyk: i think Ben has a crush on her :)
<godbyk> Hopefully she's not still in the manual. :)
<nisshh> hahaha
<nisshh> godbyk: we could release a Megan Fox Edition of the manual :)
<nisshh> just for Ben!
<godbyk> heh
<godbyk> we'd have to charge him extra, of course.
<nisshh> hehe
<nisshh> godbyk: on a more serious note, consider this me reminding you about updating the style guide :)
<godbyk> nisshh: duly noted! :)
<godbyk> I'm going to try to work on some manual stuff this weekend.
<nisshh> ok
<ChrisWoollard> ping godbyk
<dutchie> https://bugs.launchpad.net/rosetta/+bug/613821
<manualbot> Launchpad bug 613821 in rosetta "Approver violates unique constraint" [High,In progress]
<dutchie> !botsnack
<manualbot> Yum! Err, I mean, APT!
<dutchie> good manualbot
<dutchie> (http://twitter.com/launchpadstatus/status/20458449810)
<ChrisWoollard> never mind godbyk, I e-mailed you instead.
<dpm> hi dutchie, godbyk, is any of you admin of the ubuntu-manual project in LP? (or is there any admin around?)
<nisshh> dpm: im here, whats up?
<dpm> hi nisshh, thanks. I've just replied to a thread on ubuntu-manual translations, and I was proposing a change in the import settings. I thought an admin could apply the setting changes straight away -> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-translators/2010-August/003793.html
<nisshh> dpm: ok, gimme a sec to have a look
<dutchie> dpm: done
<dutchie> thanks
 * nisshh shakes his fist at dutchie!
<nisshh> your too efficient dutchie!
<dutchie> that's not something said to me often
<nisshh> hehe
<nisshh> dpm: is that all you needed?
<dpm> dutchie, nisshh, thanks :) Yeah, that was all (also for lucid-e2, if you haven't already done it)
<nisshh> yep
<dutchie> done for e2 as well
<dpm> brilliant
<dpm> it's basically a workaround for the bug whereby translators were getting their translations demoted to suggestions. Although I call it a workaround because the bug is still open, the settings you've got now are actually the optimal for the project (I'm assuming that most, if not all translations contributions to u-m are done through Launchpad rather than the maintainers manually commiting PO files)
<dutchie> we had a few doing that, which i think is why the settings were changed
<dpm> nisshh, dutchie, also regarding translation, I've noticed that you are not using automatic exports. If you go to https://translations.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/lucid-e1/+translations-settings and choose a branch where to export translations to, the work of translators will be automatically committed daily to that bzr branch of your choice. It will save you lots of manual work in requesting export and commiting translations.
<nisshh> dpm: yea, i think godbyk does it manually, i dont know why though, maybe he doesnt know about doing it automatically or something
<nisshh> dpm: ill mention it to him next time i see him
<dpm> nisshh, yeah, that'd be great. As maintainer, it will save him a lot of time and manual work, and for translators (if the same dev branch is used for auto commits) it will mean that they know that their work gets into the code predictably
<nisshh> dpm: yea, good point
<daker> dpm, i think it's good we were searching for a way to do automatic export
<nisshh> dpm: i believe he will be working on the manual this weekend if you want to have a chat with him
<dpm> nisshh, on which time zone is he? I'm not sure when I'll be around at the weekend
<dpm> otherwise I can just e-mail him
<nisshh> dpm: i dont know, but i was talking to him at about midnight UTC thismorning so i think he is US
<dpm> ok, thanks :)
<flan> I'll officially have home-Internets on the 21st.
<flan> For anyone interested.
<daker> \o/
<flan> \o/
<flan> But at least I'll actually move tomorrow.
<flan> So I can, at the very least, write code offline.
<flan> And make a dent in my game backlog.
<daker> cool
<wastrel> for anyone interested in what?
<thorwil> good evening!
<jenkins> dutchie: / godbyk any breakages that you know off because of the change to the owning group last night?
<ChrisWoollard> Sorry for asking...... but what changed?
<jenkins> We changed the group that own's the manual project to reduce the settings pages being randomly changed. We find stuff being changed ramdomly. every one else can still work on the project and everyone should still join the normal team
<jenkins> ChrisWoollard: ^
<ChrisWoollard> thanks
<ChrisWoollard> That is fine with me. I don't understand most of those settings anyway.
<ChrisWoollard> I assume that won't affect the ability to commit
<jenkins> nope
<jenkins> everyone can contribute as before
<ChrisWoollard> That's good. I am a firm believer in only giving permissions that people actually require to do a task.
<jenkins> :)
<jenkins> aiming to reduce the likley hood of breakages
<ChrisWoollard> I know first hand about those :(
<jenkins> ye
<jenkins> a they are a pain
<godbyk> jenkins: I haven't heard anyone complain about anything yet.
<jenkins> yey \o/ godbyk , sounds good so far
<dutchie> jenkins: haven't noticed anything
<godbyk> I missed dpm this morning, but I think the reason we had disabled the import of template files was because if anyone can commit, anyone can update the template file and invalidate the existing translations.
<jenkins> we need to check because anyone can commit still
<godbyk> well, if anyone can commit, that means anyone can change that po/ubuntu-manual.pot file.
<godbyk> and if the translations are automatically importing that .pot file, then that changes what the translators are to be translating.
<godbyk> RE: automatic exports: the launchpad guys said that automatic exports + automatic imports has a tendency to break a lot.
<godbyk> so I've found it's just easier to manually export to the branch (when I regenerate the PDFs).
<ChrisWoollard> You could change who can commit. If you look at the logs there are only a few people that do anyway.
<godbyk> in short: all of this translation stuff seems crazy to me. I don't have a good handle on it. I don't know why it fails when it fails.
<godbyk> So I'd tend to disable as much automatic stuff as possible. :)
<jenkins> what godbyk just said
<ChrisWoollard> godbyk: Are you able to edit the coverpage of e2 and add some 2nd edition text
<godbyk> ChrisWoollard: Yeah, thorwil's got some mockups someplace, I think.
<thorwil> mockups? the e2 cover templates are ready! ;)
<ChrisWoollard> lovely
<godbyk> thorwil: I knew I'd seen some at some point, but couldn't remember their status.
<wastrel> yo i was reading that pdf you guys made it's good stuff
<godbyk> Hey, wastrel. Thanks!
<wastrel> i only read the firat chapter so far.
<ChrisWoollard> godbyk: I sent you a mail to your gmail about some other stuff i was thinking about / toying with. What do you think?
<godbyk> ChrisWoollard: I glanced at it.  I think I can set some of that stuff withing LaTeX. I'll have to look into it a bit.
<godbyk> I'm curious as to which characters it didn't map to Unicode.
<godbyk> I'm not sure how to set the alt text for images, either.
<godbyk> Technically the alt text should differ from the caption text (as the alt text is to describe the appearance of the image itself).
<ChrisWoollard> i think one of them was th 0 from eth0
<godbyk> So if I can figure out how to add the alt text, we'd have to have someone write the text.
<ChrisWoollard> not a problem
<ChrisWoollard> I have no problem writeing the text for 30 / 40 images.
<ChrisWoollard> writing
<ChrisWoollard> if you have a copy of main.pdf you should be able to click on the links and it will show you exactly where the unicode issues are
<godbyk> ChrisWoollard: okay, it looks like all the unicode complaints are for characters in LaTeX's math mode.
<godbyk> so $0$, $\times$, $\langle$, and $\rangle$.
<godbyk> which generate character similar to 0, x, <, and >
<ChrisWoollard> Okay.
<dutchie> like Ã?
<godbyk> dutchie: yeah, that's $\times$
 * dutchie likes his compose key
<godbyk> $\langle$ is â¨ and $\rangle$ is â©.
<godbyk> (not sure if those will carry across irc or not.
<dutchie> hooray for unicode
 * dutchie â¥ unicode
<ChrisWoollard> i just got funnt square boxes
<ChrisWoollard> funny
<wastrel> if i don't see it on my keyboard i don't trust it
<godbyk> ChrisWoollard: you need a nicer font. :)
<ChrisWoollard> Sorry. I am on my windows box at the moment. so i don't have many
<wastrel> i just put a bunch of apple docs on my kindle.  the ubuntu manual compares very favorably fyi
<ChrisWoollard> So  guess those characters should be changed?
<godbyk> well, they're the proper characters.  we'll just have to see if we can tell acrobat what they mean.
<ChrisWoollard> I also guess the checked may not be perfect
<ChrisWoollard> and as it is adobe it probably isn't ;)
<godbyk> well, since those characters are generated in latex's math mode, it may be that all math stuff is ignored when it comes to telling pdf about unicode characters or somesuch.
<jenkins> !ping
<manualbot> pong
#ubuntu-manual 2010-08-07
<jenkins> hmm quickshot needs a much better debian rules file
 * jenkins adds it to the list
<dutchie> isn't quickshot a quickly app?
<jenkins> yea but the rules file is BAD
<dutchie> what's wrong with it?
<jenkins> the one for quickshot does not have any of the build clean , build and install stuff . I have never needed to look at it untill now
<jenkins> http://paste.ubuntu.com/474619/ is quickshots one
<dutchie> it is up on LP
<dutchie> does it not work in some way? because that would probably be a CDBS bug...
<jenkins> it does work but I need to get it to add the apport stuff correctly
<jenkins> be back later dinner time
<dutchie> ah
<daker> anyone using the LoCo Directory API ?
 * jenkins has had some nice food
<dutchie> phew
<dutchie> that was quite an email to write
<daker> dutchie, interested ? http://webapps.ubuntu.com/employment/canonical_LPSWD/
<dutchie> not really the right time for me to apply for a job now
<dutchie> and I don't have "extensive experience" of anything really :(
<daker> \o/
 * daker really need to take a look at Zope
<thorwil> dutchie: well written
<dutchie> thorwil: thank you
<dutchie> i think we needed that
 * daker need to check his emails
<dutchie> thorwil: i like your thinking about the sound menu, too
<thorwil> heh, ty
<thorwil> unfortunately no reactions on the ayatana list
 * dutchie goes to write up his agenda on the wiki
<daker> the LP guys should rethink about the homepage
<thorwil> the project should not try again to bring out a 2nd edition
<jenkins> dutchie: I am glad you wrote the e-mail I have not read it all yet. I wrote one to ben about the same topic and had no reply
<thorwil> jenkins: i guess his inbox is rather full, these days :}
<jenkins> this is how I am finding it at the moment "I'm starting to come up to a pretty busy set of
<jenkins> holidays with dubious internet access, "
<jenkins> dutchie: yea, I can't write this release as I am way to busy but I am happy to help people out etc and do my usual latex where i can
<dutchie> yeah, good point thorwil
<dutchie> if anyone sees humphreybc anywhere, give him a good poke
<jenkins> will do
<jenkins> I think we need to get lucid -e2 and merge the updates to it with mavrick and get some people to make the changes for lucid
<vish> dutchie: nice!
<jenkins> we are way behind on the planned schedule. I think what has not helped is the core team has found that they have suddenly got other things to do. I start my placement/job a week on monday and so will have even less time
<jenkins> hey vish
<daker> dutchie, 1500 UTC ? in GMT pls
<vish> dutchie: "spending more time writing controversial blog posts" :D
<dutchie> daker: UTC == GMT
<vish> jenkins: heya
<jenkins> vish lol i saw that bit and laughed
<jenkins> vish what do you think of "Quickshot is a program designed for capturing a large number of screenshots in different languages. It is principally designed for use with the Ubuntu Manual Project, but should be able to be tweaked for different projects and uses." as the quickshot package description
<jenkins> thats our current one
<dutchie> i think popey summed it up quite well: http://twitter.com/popey/status/20564111964
<jenkins> lol at popey
<daker> dutchie, you forgot a item
<vish> dutchie: i like topyli's reply , he really called out hbc' bluff
<dutchie> daker: oh?
<daker> Website
<vish> dutchie: see hbc' own site for toplyi's reply
<dutchie> daker: feel free to add to the agenda on http://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-manual/Meetings
<dutchie> wtf even is a "neck beard" anyway?
<jenkins> pass
<dutchie> some kiwi-ism
<daker> oki
<thorwil> jenkins: get the "designed for" out. it "is" ;)
<vish> jenkins: let me pastebin a description
<jenkins> thanks vish, I am right in thinking you are working on this stuff in ubuntu right? I know there is a massive drive to make them less techy
<dutchie> wasn't it vish's idea initially?
<vish> yup
<jenkins> cool, I could not be 100% sure I read the e-mails a while ago
<vish> jenkins: quickshot takes screenshot of specified applications or just about anything in general?
<jenkins> applications or desktop depending on what is chossen by the project who wants them taken. There is no way for the user to set it
<jenkins> the next release will support any project who wants to use it
<daker> dutchie, agenda updated
<dutchie> daker: thanks
<vish> jenkins: cool , but now how will user use it from next release? as a user all one would need to do is just download it and run it and it takes shots in that language?
<jenkins> vish: yep thats all the user needs to do
<vish> jenkins: you said any project can use it right , who sets this up?
<jenkins> the project leaders set up the requirements on the server.
<vish> jenkins:  just a bit confused since this is not exactly similar to other applications
<dutchie> how hardcoded is the server?
<vish> jenkins: if someone else is setting it up , where do they download it from?
<jenkins> dutchie: not sure flan is doing all that
<daker> see y
<vish> they as in everyone other than project leader ;)
<jenkins> vish: err our website. we have not got that far as this will be the first time the server will be released. quickshot gui will be in a ppa
<vish> jenkins: so this is basically now gonna be an app directed at project leaders , so that they can set it up and re-distribute it?
<jenkins> nope, the app allows the user to take the screenshots. all the set up will be done online in the server set up
<thorwil> good night!
<jenkins> make sense?
<vish> jenkins: sorta, now the user would have to select the project they want and those settings are used?
<jenkins> yes , should have said that the user does choose they project they want and the settings are all called automaticlally
<dutchie> a similar sort of setup to jono's lernid app
<vish> jenkins: righto , now i dont see why the app is targeted at users , since a user would not be able to control anything... but it seems to be more something a project manager should be looking for
<vish> so that raises the bar for a description ..
<vish> jenkins: once the manager sets it up , he just has send it out to his members with steps to use it
<vish> jenkins: am i right?
<jenkins> well the user still has to click a menu to display it if thats what is required of the screenshot. the user may have to set up a new user account if the project requires it.
<jenkins> your right
<jenkins> but the instructions should be, install quickshot and choose our project
<jenkins> then follow it
<jenkins> it = quickshot
 * jenkins wonders if vish is writing and essay :P
<vish> lol!
<vish> jenkins: cool , this is an advanced tool tbh. and not something which a novice user should/will look for.  if the description is on the website it needs to be more about its features and directed towards project managers.. hence my confusion why you want to keep it simple
<jenkins> o right i see, i was just wanting to check if the description was ok. We would like people to go "I have a spare few minutes I will do some ubuntu stuff, I know I will do some screenshots with quickshot"
<vish> ah , so that is your target audience!
<jenkins> I am not very good at explaining things :?
 * jenkins shouts at quickshot in the hope it will work
<jenkins> thanks vish :)
 * jenkins mentally fell asleep
<vish> hehe!
<vish> jenkins: http://paste.ubuntu.com/474654/  how does this sound?
<vish> err , should have been "multi-lingual"
<dutchie> hi there nisshh
<nisshh> dutchie: hey
<nisshh> keep hitting ctrl+d in the terminal
<dutchie> hehe
<dutchie> i do that
<nisshh> annoys the crap out of me
<nisshh> yea
<dutchie> i go to press ctrl-w to delete the last word, catch the shift key, and ctrl-shift-w closes the terminal window
<nisshh> hehe
<nisshh> dutchie: have you ever tried a tiling window manager?
<dutchie> yes
<nisshh> oh
<godbyk> I keep hitting Ctrl+L when I think my browser has focus and it ends up clearing my xchat or terminal windows because they still have focus.
<nisshh> which ones?
<godbyk> Where's my focus-follows-gaze option?
<nisshh> lol
<dutchie> awesome
<jenkins> thanks vish thats great !
<dutchie> er
<dutchie> another one
<nisshh> yea
<vish> jenkins: np..
<nisshh> awesome is not bad
<dutchie> i find that terminator is close enough to a tiling wm without being insan
<dutchie> e
<godbyk> Ooh, Ctrl+W bites me all the time. I use it in vim to delete a word.  It doesn't do that when I'm composing an email with gmail.
<nisshh> iv tried awesome wmii ratpoison xmonad dwm, and a few more
<dutchie> i do that in web forms too :)
<dutchie> xmonad!
<dutchie> that's the other one
<nisshh> heh
<nisshh> currently using wmii
<jenkins> so vish one down how many to go?
<nisshh> wmii <- best one
<nisshh> vish: what are you doing?
<vish> jenkins: lol! there are so many bugs , would like more help there ;)
<vish> nisshh: cleaning up app description :)
<nisshh> vish: ah
<jenkins> vish: well I will add it to the list of things to help with, but I am quite busy atm
 * nisshh is currently reading a very very long extensive ubuntu rant
<dutchie> oh no, not *that* one
<vish> nisshh: stop now and dont wast your time ;)
<dutchie> anyone who mentions it is getting kicked ;)
<nisshh> which one?
<jenkins> lol mentions what?
<dutchie> *that* blog post
<jenkins> which one dutchie :P
<vish> nisshh: dont read the rant! there can be only one!
<nisshh> whcih frigging one?
<nisshh> :)
<vish> *he who shall not be named!*
<vish> </potter reference>
<nisshh> yea
<nisshh> i know the one you mean
<nisshh> bens one
<nisshh> on omg
<nisshh> i was reading that one
<nisshh> vish: no, i was kidding, i was reading this one -> http://izanbardprince.wordpress.com/2010/08/05/is-ubuntu-becoming-more-of-a-pain-to-set-up-than-windows/
<nisshh> and yes
<nisshh> i agree with it
<vish> oooh! yay rants!
<nisshh> its one of the most sensible rants iv ever seen
<jenkins> popey must have seen the word rant and left to take his eyes out
<godbyk> lol
<dutchie> "Deleting useful programs to make way for more Mono" # wow
<nisshh> hehe
<dutchie> f-spot isn't even in the install any more...
<nisshh> dutchie: its a bit dated, since fspot is being removed
<nisshh> one thing i agree with is the fact that Ubuntu is trying to be linux but at the same time, trying to be windows
<nisshh> ITS FRIGGING STUPID!
<jenkins> godbyk: / dutchie what was with that translation import this morning?
<dutchie> i don't even know any more
<nisshh> jenkins: the settings got changed
<dutchie> actually, i never knew
<jenkins> nisshh: what settings?
<nisshh> jenkins: dutchie it was you who changed them silly :)
<nisshh> jenkins: the translations settings
<dutchie> shouldn't have caused an import thoug
<dutchie> h
<nisshh> dpm came in here a while ago/last night and requested they be changed
<nisshh> so dutchie did it
<jenkins> what was changed out of interest?
<nisshh> dutchie: i thought thats what it did
 * nisshh shrugs
<dutchie> jenkins: disabling the auto-import
<nisshh> something about having to do translations manually
<godbyk> yeah, you enabled auto-import, so it, well, automatically imported the template.
<jenkins> i thought auto-import  was disabled? and thats how we wanted it
<godbyk> that's why it was disabled in the first place. :)
<nisshh> wtf....
<dutchie> i changed the auto import from pot+po to just pot
<jenkins> ok so that means ...
<jenkins> I have no clue what the pot does apart from when it is used for a plant :)
<dutchie> pot is the template for translation
<godbyk> the pot file is what provides the list of strings that need to be translated.
<jenkins> rigth and assumably the minimum needed to translate in launchpad?
<godbyk> my stance on all this translation stuff is that I prefer to have all the automatic stuff disabled because it does things that frighten and confuse me.  I only want the translations to be affected when someone makes a conscious decision to do so.
<godbyk> yeah, so launchpad reads the pot file and uses that to present the list of strings to the translators.
<godbyk> if you change the pot file, then the strings for the translators change, too.
<jenkins> I agree with godbyk that way we know when and why it happens. also anyone can change the pot file
<godbyk> yeah, since anyone can commit to the bzr repository, anyone can change the pot file at any time.
<jenkins> dutchie: which page do you change all this? for reference
<godbyk> someone could be evil and change all the strings in the pot file and force a LOT of extra work on the translators.
<jenkins> exactly
<dutchie> jenkins: https://translations.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/lucid-e1/+translations-settings
<jenkins> but who has the authority to do the import our sleves?
<jenkins> thanks dutchie as that is lucid-e1 can it not be set to none?
<dutchie> suppose so
<godbyk> I would set e1, e2, maverick, all of 'em to 'none' for now.
<dutchie> yeah
 * jenkins does his first quickshot commit in a month
<jenkins> I have just been so busy
<jenkins> right I have to go an pick up my sister, talk tomorrow o/
<jenkins> night all
#ubuntu-manual 2010-08-08
<brandonj> anybody around?
<dutchie> brandonj: for a bit, why?
<nisshh> im here as well
<nisshh> but only for a little whil;e
<nisshh> while*
<brandonj> just thinking that the meeting scheduled for monday is right in the middle of the work day in many places.  it probably won't be a problem for me, but it might be for others
<nisshh> brandonj: thats what i said in my reply
<nisshh> brandonj: but its not for me, thats 9pm at night
<brandonj> yes, I just saw that
<nisshh> yep
<nisshh> he is right though
<nisshh> we need a meeting REALLY SOON
<brandonj> yeah
<brandonj> I agree
<nisshh> i think alot of us have been REALLY busy lately though
<nisshh> not unmotivated
<dutchie> nisshh: did you read the ML
<dutchie> oh, sorry
<dutchie> i had the scrollback covered by supertuxkart
<brandonj> hahaha
<dutchie> brandonj: well, so far, no-one's responded with any problems
<nisshh> hehe
<dutchie> and, to be honest, as long as the core 5-6 can make it, i'm not so bothered about the others
<nisshh> dutchie: well, im sure the "others" will appreciate that :)
<nisshh> to be honest
<dutchie> times are tough
<nisshh> i miss benjamins frequent motivational speeches
<dutchie> 2 months to do lucid-e2 and maverick
<dutchie> yeah, me too nisshh
<nisshh> dutchie: yea, about that, i think we should shove e2 aside and go straight to e2
<nisshh> oops
<nisshh> i mean
<dutchie> nisshh: i agree
<nisshh> straight to maverick
<dutchie> but that's to be discussed in the meeting
<nisshh> dutchie: yea, because by the time we finish e2, then it needs translating, etc
<nisshh> editing
<dutchie> yep
<nisshh> dutchie: yea
 * dutchie does a little research
<dutchie> one moment
<nisshh> ok
<brandonj> for my part that seems like the most sensible thing
<dutchie> last ML post longer than a sentence from hbc: https://lists.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/msg01949.html on thursday 10th of june
<nisshh> wow, that was AGES ago
 * dutchie is currently grepping IRC logs
<nisshh> dutchie: damn, you just made me feel really motivated, now i have to go do something :)
<dutchie> nisshh: erm, yay
<nisshh> heh
<dutchie> wasn't quite my intention
<nisshh> dutchie: i easily get motivated, its a curse :)
<nisshh> dutchie: nah, i HAVE been doing work, all night infact
<dutchie> i've been working hard on my solitaire solver
<dutchie> utterly useless, but quite interesting
<nisshh> heh
<nisshh> dutchie: are you one of those "dammit this game is too hard *starts writing code to skip to the "you won" screen*"
<dutchie> no, it's for statistical analsis
<dutchie> <-- mathematician
<nisshh> hahaha
<nisshh> oh, ok, you were serious
<nisshh> :)
<nisshh> i though that was a joke born from a joke
<dutchie> i'm even going to write a very serious blog post when it's done
<nisshh> oh ok
 * nisshh trys to look sheepish
<nisshh> thishumphreybc: whats with your nick?
<thishumphreybc> i'm on my netbook :)
<thishumphreybc> I saw that email for re-igniting the project / staging a coup
<nisshh> thishumphreybc: ah, good was hoping you would before monday
 * nisshh was the one planning the takeover
<thishumphreybc> I can't come to the meeting though, it's at 3am my time
<nisshh> *evil laugh*
<thishumphreybc> lol
<nisshh> thishumphreybc: how can it be?
<nisshh> thishumphreybc: oh
<thishumphreybc> it's at 3pm UTC time right?
<thishumphreybc> 1500 ?
 * nisshh just figured it out with a calc
<nisshh> duh
<nisshh> yea
<nisshh> thishumphreybc: well, since you cant come to the meeting, what do you think we should do about e2 not finished and maverick coming up?
<thishumphreybc> well, I think e2 isn't that bad, we fixed a few hundred bugs
<thishumphreybc> and unfortunately we can't do much about maverick yet because there's not much to write about
<thishumphreybc> hardly anything has changed
<nisshh> alot of UI has changed
<thishumphreybc> most of it has been under the surface
<nisshh> sound menu
<thishumphreybc> well a couple of indicator applets
<nisshh> memenu
<thishumphreybc> and then a new theme eventually
<nisshh> software centre
<thishumphreybc> sure so we can just edit those sections
<nisshh> yea
<thishumphreybc> that will maybe take a week
<nisshh> but what about removing the last 4 chapters
<nisshh> true
<thishumphreybc> oh yeah, forgot about htat
<thishumphreybc> a meeting would be good
<nisshh> read: necessary
<thishumphreybc> maybe we should invite some of my haters along too
<nisshh> your haters?
<brandonj> haters gonna hate
<thishumphreybc> yup!
<thishumphreybc> i have many of them
<thishumphreybc> they're cool
<nisshh> who are these haters?
<nisshh> thishumphreybc: the big decision we need to make is whether we release e2 then maverick as planned, or we skip e2 and modify it for maverick instead
<daker> thishumphreybc, \o/
<wastrel> what's e2
<thishumphreybc> nisshh: http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2010/08/dude-youre-35-year-old-with-neck-beard.html
<brandonj> lucid edition 2
<nisshh> wastrel: edition 2 :)
<thishumphreybc> I think we can stick with the plan quite comfortably
<nisshh> thishumphreybc: saw that thismorning
<daker> IMHO we should skip e2
<nisshh> :)
<thishumphreybc> anyway, I know i've been a bit absent
<thishumphreybc> my own fault
<nisshh> yea
<nisshh> we have all been busy
<thishumphreybc> I don't think the team is at stake though
<thishumphreybc> we're still doing fine
<nisshh> yea
<thishumphreybc> better than the docs team at least :P
<nisshh> i agree
 * nisshh hopes no one from the docs team reads the logs :)
<daker> \o/
<brandonj> I think you'll be safe. nisshh
<nisshh> brandonj: im more worried about thishumphreybc :)
<wastrel> i think i read that same article 10 years ago
<brandonj> he's used to haters by now though
<brandonj> =P
<nisshh> brandonj: yea
<thishumphreybc> I have developed a thick skin
<nisshh> heh
<thishumphreybc> partly due to the cold New Zealand winters
 * nisshh watched the new tekken movie thismorning
<zkriesse> So meeting in nine hours?
<zkriesse> 15:00 UTC right?
<zkriesse> Well in a day
<thorwil> good morning!
<popey> lo
<trijntje> Hi all, is anyone present who knows about the problems with the translations of the manual on LP?
<thorwil> dutchie, godbyk: would it make sense to write a report of the shortcomings of LP translations, as a kind of master bug report? or do you think the LP team is aware of those issues?
<dutchie> thorwil: not sure if a bug report would be the right place
<thorwil> dutchie: didn't mean a ticket. but the report should have a similar mindset in being all about getting it fixed
<dutchie> yeah, might be handy
<thorwil> should be a mail to the LP list (there is a general one?), doubled as blog post
<thorwil> dutchie: i can't write the report, as i havn't dealed with that piece of infrastructure at all. but i could bring it to the planet
<dutchie> wiki page? etherpad document?
<thorwil> etherpad
<thorwil> one aspect would be a list of problems, ideally with proposed solutions
<thorwil> another aspect, however, is whether LP does what it should and our problems come from using the wrong tool
<thorwil> it has to be made clear if improving LP is a valid option, if there is a better (ready) alternative, or if we absolutely need a custom solution
<dutchie> thorwil: i think we can/should stick with LP
<dutchie> though i think we should persist with these new settings and see if anything breaks
<thorwil> dutchie: i have not much of a base for an own opinion there, i just see that there is lots of friction, apparently
<dutchie> hopefully the new settings will help
<nisshh> hehe
<nisshh> a whole bunch of my LoCo friends are offended at benjamins blog post on OMG!, lol
<jenkins> there is a thunder bug in my lcd display :/
<ChrisWoollard> Hello all
<c7p> hello all
<jenkins> hey c7p
<c7p> so the meeting is tomorrow, right ?
<jenkins> yep
<c7p> will godbyk make it at that time ?
<jenkins> i *think* its about 7am for him
<c7p> that's fine
<c7p> If the meeting is scheduled for tomorrow, I think there should be a meeting notification/reminder or something on the ML
<jenkins> feel free to send one :)
<c7p> ok :)
<c7p> jenkins: how do you get the link of a ML's mail ?
<jenkins> go to the lauchpad team and look through the archives launchpad.net/~ubuntu-manual
<jenkins> click view archive down the bottom left direction
<c7p> jenkins: ty
<jenkins> np
<godbyk> 1500 UTC is 1000 for me, so I should be able to attend (assuming no one at work calls a more important meeting).
<jenkins> anyone got a good suggestion for thunder bugs inside lcd screens?
<godbyk> thunder bugs?
<jenkins> yea small black bugs
<godbyk> isn't it just a dead pixel?
<jenkins> no they are moving
<jenkins> there is three of them
<godbyk> interesting. never heard of 'em.
<jenkins> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thrips thrip is their proper name aparently
<godbyk> dare I ask how they managed to get into your lcd screen?
<c7p> mail's subject : "Very important meeting on Monday 9th of August" , is it ok ?
<jenkins> yep
<jenkins> godbyk: they flew/walked in i guess
<jenkins> they get in the pictures in the house in the summer its very anoying
 * c7p brb
<godbyk> jenkins: how strange. I figured the lcd screens were sealed.
<jenkins>  godbyk not well enough apparently
<infosoft> jenkins: Maybe it's new Compiz effect? :D
<jenkins> infosoft: i could file a bug about it :P
<infosoft> Wobbly windows + thunder bugs :)
<infosoft> There was one effect in E17 with bugs eating the desktop :D
<jenkins> lol
<infosoft> But they were only making black holes on the desktop. The effect should be improved so that they would eat icons and etc. :)
<jenkins> I am hoping mine will go away tonight and not spend their time eating icons
<infosoft> These aren't software bugs, these are computer bugs! LOL :D
<jenkins> right I am off to bed as I have to get into the right sleeping pattern ready for placement.
<jenkins> lol infosoft
<jenkins> night all
<c7p> night jenkins
<infosoft> You should write bug report to computer manufacturer :D
<ChrisWoollard> evening all. How's life.
<wastrel> :[
#ubuntu-manual 2011-08-01
<benonsoftware> Is rick around here?
#ubuntu-manual 2011-08-03
<benonsoftware> Can there be any times for the August meeting? http://doodle.com/zi4krnkz2gg8uw6m
#ubuntu-manual 2011-08-07
<Vrusha> Hi all ! glad to join the Ubuntu team for this meeting
<Vrusha> Hope to contribute to the Ubuntu manual as an Author/Editor
<thorwil> Vrusha: hi, i think you are 1 hour (and a few minutes) early ;)
<Vrusha> yeah
<Vrusha> I know:) , its kinda late here in India
<Vrusha> are you from the team of authors on Ubuntu
<thorwil> Vrusha: no, i'm responsible for the design of the title page
<Vrusha> thats great! what are ur tools ?
<thorwil> inkscape
<c7p> hello all :)
<rickfosb> Hi All:  I'm on the road with the laptop;  Hope I do not loose access;
<rickfosb> Hi hannie
<Hannie> hi rickfosb, can you read my text? I'm having problems with Ubuntu
<c7p>  hey rickfosb, i've just read your mail
<rickfosb> telling the truth; I've not been on my home machine yet so its in my inbox waiting on me this evening;  I'll let you know if i have problems
<Hannie> hi C7p
<c7p> hey Hannie :)
<rickfosb> thanks c7p;  Wife is driving,  I'm tring to type... :)
<Hannie> I had a crash today, so I am a bit handicapped. Only a small part of Ubuntu is working at the moment
<rickfosb> C7p: saw your email re the new outline for the desktop chapter;  I like it a lot;
<c7p> rickfosb: hehe, i guess the whole situation is kinda weird :P. i hope you won't have any probs
<c7p> thx
<c7p> hey godbyk are you there ?
<rickfosb> I'll be home in about two hours and will work on hannie's text and formalize you outlint into the spreadsheet if we all agree
<Hannie> c7p, sorry I didn't stick to my part of the chapter. You can just keep your text, hand it in, improve it, whatever you like
<rickfosb> I'll figure it out;  *rickfosb is 120 kph 70 mph... thank goodness for data cards
<c7p> Hannie: no worries, since these 3 paragraphs are more relevant to your section, we can either modify it or use it
<c7p> them*
<Hannie> c7p, I'll send you my text as soon as I can reach Ubuntu again
<c7p> Hannie: ok
<rickfosb> I have a copy in my inbox; (assuming it hasn't changed) hannie
<rickfosb> I can forward to c7p, or can do an edit and push?
<Hannie> rickfosb, did I send you my text for the Desktop chapter? I do not think I did
<c7p> rickfosb: whatever you want :)
<c7p> i guess we should start the meeting soon, it's past 19:00 UTC already
<Hannie> godbyk is not present yet
<rickfosb> maybe my mistake;  I know i got a text submission from on of the team.   I thought was you...  :0
<Hannie> rickfosb, I wished I had sent it to you. At the moment I cannot get at my documents, mailbox etc.
<rickfosb> hannie; you are correct;  i got a text file from one ot the other members...
<Hannie> Luckily I had synchronized with Ubuntu One, but even Ubuntu One is out of reach.
<Hannie> Tomorrow I hope to have successfully restored my system
<c7p> i think we have to proceed, maybe Kevin will come on the way
<rickfosb> c7p: can you start the meeting?
<Hannie> fine with me
<rickfosb> or, we can keep this real informal
<c7p> @ all, let's see how many are you here for the meeting ? raise your hands !
<manualbot> c7p: Error: "all," is not a valid command.
<Hannie> present
<rickfosb> present
<c7p> anyone else ?
<Hannie> If we are just the three of us, perhaps we can discuss coordination of Desktop chapter?
<c7p> sure Hannie
<rickfosb> agreed
<Hannie> I have a few questions:
<Hannie> latex code: will this be checked by someone?
<c7p> hm
<c7p> the latex code if isn't correct syntacticly raises errors during manual compilation (latex => pdf)
<c7p> so yes they are checked
<rickfosb> c7p: based on your outline, and hannie's emails,  I could start getting the screenshots toghether while you guys work on the text if that would help
<Hannie> for instance: what should launcher and dash be preceded by?
<rickfosb> yes on latex: we'll see that during the build and final edits
<Hannie> \application{Dash}?
<c7p> Hannie: i use the \menu for launcher and  \application for dash, i think we should advice kevin for this
<Hannie> I try to follow kevin's style-guide, but not everything is clear to me
<Hannie> c7p, you are right. Kevin knows the answers to this
<c7p> rickfosb: do you want as to send you the screenshots together with our sections ?
<c7p> us*
<rickfosb> I'm ok with that, yes;
<rickfosb> I can then include them in the test build and push
<c7p> cool
<c7p> rickfosb: have you any feedback from the other co-authors ?
<Hannie> rickfosb, since I do not have the English version of Natty, could I ask you to check a few things for me
<Hannie> not now, but by email
<rickfosb> hannie, c7p:  as soon as i get home,  I'll update the spreadsheet with the outline per c7p.  you can send me txt based on that outline and i'll compile.   I'll also work with the other writeres to clean this up.
<c7p> ok
<rickfosb> c7p: yes, I'm getting emails directly from some of the team,  Kartik, and the others
<Hannie> I hope to finish my part in a few days, provided I get Ubuntu working again soon
<rickfosb> I hate it when that happens to me... aside from the 'clean start'  i lose some of my 'stuff'.... thanks for ubuntu one thought
<Hannie> yes, I need a shoulder to cry on
<c7p> xD
<Hannie> rickfosb, I will send you my text asap. Should restoring take too long, I will let you know
<rickfosb> :)
<rickfosb> hannie:  great!  thanks...
<rickfosb> anything else?  *worried that i'll drop
<c7p> you ca also use google docs ;), just update and share the doc with Rick
<Hannie> I think this is it
<c7p> me too
<Hannie> c7p, I cannot get on the internet
<c7p> i guess meeting is postponed for the next weekend
<c7p> Hannie: oh :/
<rickfosb> Yes I use google docs... share with me once you get back and I'll drag it down to my project folder
<Hannie> yes, see you soon. I am going to fight with my computer. Hope I win ;)
<rickfosb> yep;  I'll will send another group email;  We'll call it a working session
<rickfosb> you will!
<c7p> :)
<Hannie> bye, bye
<c7p> for sure
<rickfosb> bye
<c7p> bye :)
#ubuntu-manual 2012-08-01
<godbyk> k
#ubuntu-manual 2012-08-05
<moez> is that a bug on LP? i have this problem only in this this page (no "First â¢ Previous â¢ Next â¢ Last" links on top and no "save & continue" button on bottom) : https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/precise/+pots/ubuntu-manual/fr/+translate?show=untranslated&direction=backwards&memo=1360&start=1350
<moez> bootini, do you have the same problem?
<bootini> moez, No sorry I just studying St IGnucius and here to talk about how to be able to 'comment' on the ubuntu getting started Manual, without looking like the n00b I am.  :)
<moez> :)
<bootini> what continent are you on , timezone etc ??
<bootini> what continent are you on , timezone etc ??
<moez_> my zone is  +1
<bootini> ok, so your french ! I'm Manx .
<moez_> welcome
<bootini> man, this is slow at moment.
<bootini> Are you Admin . ??
<moez_> no
<bootini> cool
<bootini> I'm into Trisquel too.
<bootini> but mostly like doing PDF's.
<bootini> I'm setting up a trisquel website in the Manx language.
<bootini> it very hot here today :(
<bootini> ok ok so I'll see you around, then ?
<moez_> where are from?  (<bootini>: it very hot here today :( )
 * bootini slides moez_  a cold beer from moe's Tavern. ;)
<bootini> iom
<bootini> .im
<bootini> isle of man
<bootini> ellan vannin
<bootini> rom (wasn't made in a dayy ;)
<bootini> maybe it's just 'cos I don't have the window open , and I've three computers on the go.
<bootini> see you later ... ;)
<moez_> :)
<bootini> u smoke ??
<moez_> no
#ubuntu-manual 2013-07-29
<rreed> join #ubuntu-beginners
#ubuntu-manual 2013-08-01
<CarstenG> Hi all.
<CarstenG> hannie: are you there?
<hannie> CarstenG, now I am ;)
<CarstenG> Hi
<hannie> Good evening
<CarstenG> Evening?
<hannie> almost
<CarstenG> Where are you :-)
<hannie> 17:46
<CarstenG> In Germany  is afternoon :-)
<CarstenG> yes
<CarstenG> :-)
<hannie> ok, here in France too
<CarstenG> What does your Dutch translation of the Saucy manual do?
<hannie> I haven't worked on Saucy - nl yet
<hannie> Do you want to know how many fuzzies it has?
<hannie> I should merge it with raring first
<CarstenG> Ã¤hm
<CarstenG> I mean Raring :-)
<CarstenG> Saucy is not yet free for translation â¦
<hannie> Ah, raring is finished, but we are not going to publish it because we have no screenshots and it is rather late
<CarstenG> oh
<CarstenG> It is never to late ;-)
<hannie> As I said before, we will only publish the LTS version
<CarstenG> ah, ok
<CarstenG> WE have also finished the German version of Raring
<hannie> I am currently trying to get the 12.04 version in USC. It is a hell of a job
<CarstenG> An Kevin want to publish it soon...
<hannie> Good, it is still usable for about 3 months
<CarstenG> Oh yes, to get PDFs to USC is bad.
<CarstenG> Kevin showed me some weeks ago the pending packages for USC and there was no progress
<CarstenG> He gave up :-(
<CarstenG> And I can understand him.
<hannie> I have packaged the pdf file and am trying to get the attention of some motu guys to review it
<hannie> I am afraid the packaging people are understaffed
<hannie> See https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/software-center/+bug/1207273
<manualbot> Launchpad bug 1207273 in software-center "add ubuntu manual nl to software center" [Undecided,New]
<CarstenG> I hope someone will help you here.
<hannie> Me too. I did get good help on the motu mailing list and #ubuntu-motu and #launchpad
<CarstenG> If I remember correctly, Kevin told me, that the Ubuntu guys want to change the package process so that external stuff like our manual comes faster to USC...
<CarstenG> We will see, when this happens.
<hannie> Well, they have plans.......Since january 2013!!
<hannie> Meanwhile, I find information scattered all over the place. Can't see the wood from the trees :)
<hannie> And I get plenty of error messages in the terminal because it is hard to figure out what happens behind the schene
<hannie> *scene
<CarstenG> Just an idea: Could you write a summary of this process to the list, so that the other translation teams can make it too?
<hannie> You mean the packaging? I have 20 pages of instructions and terminal output :(
<CarstenG> oh
<CarstenG> Sound really complicated.
<hannie> one example:
<hannie> dpkg-source: error: add ump_logo.png in debian/source/include-binaries if you want to store the modified binary in the debian tarball
<hannie> dpkg-source: error: cannot represent change to ubuntu-handleiding_1.0/ubuntu-handleiding12.04.pdf: binary file contents changed
<hannie> This means I have to go through the process all over again :(
<hannie> The problem is that the documentation is outdated and contains errors
<CarstenG> mmmh, really annoying
<hannie> So I keep on trying. Some tests were successful, others failed
<hannie> And I also want to spend some time on the saucy version of our manual (as an author)
<hannie> I am going to take a break now (temperature outside = 34 degrees)
<hannie> see you soon
<rreed> join #ubuntu-beginners
