#ubuntu-meeting 2005-04-28
<froud> time
<mdke> froud, another hour
<mdke> ;)
<mdke> its 11 UTC
<froud> nah
<mdke> yah
<mdke> Current UTC (or GMT/Zulu)-time used: Sunday, April 17, 2005 at 11:00:21
<jsgotangco> ok
<froud> who is the chair
<mdke> mary organised the meeting
<froud> yep, is Mary here
<mdke> not yet
<froud> ok
<froud> I am now logging
* mdke points at boglot :)
<Burgundavia> hey, take a look at this idea:
<Burgundavia> http://img107.echo.cx/my.php?image=help2ui6ja.png
<froud> Burgundavia: nice suggestion
<Burgundavia> by default, it woudl show common things
<Burgundavia> and when they searched, it would reorder itself
<Burgundavia> very simple ui
<jsgotangco> would beagle be part of breezy
<Burgundavia> jsgotangco, that is the plan
<Burgundavia> but this would be a standalone app
<Burgundavia> I just used beagle as a look example
<froud> Gnome only
<froud> is the backend desktop neutral
<Burgundavia> someone could right a qt frontend
<Burgundavia> it is daemon and frontend
* froud thinks we should take this back to channel until mary arrives
<Burgundavia> we might as well talk here
<froud> not sure everyone else not docteam is interested
<froud> and it would be better to capture it under our weblog etc
<Burgundavia> true
<jsgotangco> ok
<Burgundavia> am going to flood #ubuntu-doc with this talk
<mdke> ok hypatia will you lead?
<hypatia> yeah sure.
<hypatia> gimme 2 minutes
<jsgotangco> game
<hypatia> OK, doc team meeting as per https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/DocteamNextIRCMeeting
<hypatia> who's here?
<trickie> present
<mdke> me
<froud> !
<Burgundavia> yeppers
<jsgotangco> tadaaa
<mpt> me
<hypatia> yay.
<hypatia> So, agenda item #1.
<hypatia> Better communication between Documentation Team and Development Team
<Burgundavia> we got good feedback from mdz on this
<hypatia> As I recall, this came up after the late addition of new spatial behaviour to nautilus.
<trickie> Yes... i had a bit to say about that... but unfortunately haven't had a chance to do any of what i said  i would
<hypatia> ie way to late to document and translate the documentation.
<Burgundavia> he mentioned that the dev team is willing to create an artwork freeze
<jsgotangco> such freezes should be well planned though
<Burgundavia> so we have 2 issues here
<mdke> and incorporate our feedback into freezes in general
<Burgundavia> 1. artwork
<Burgundavia> 2. features
<froud> But is artwork a real problem?
<jsgotangco> no its not
<froud> feature are a problem
<mdke> why not a real problem?
<Burgundavia> artwork is a professional issue
<hypatia> froud: the concern was screenshots looking exactly like a default desktop.
<mdke> its a shame if our screenshots look unprofessional
<hypatia> I agree that features are more of a problem.
<Burgundavia> ie. our quickguide looks like crap because it does not look like hoary
<Burgundavia> but artwork is easily fixable
<froud> so we want to recapture all screen shots every release?
<mdke> i think so yes
<Burgundavia> froud, if the artwork changes, then yes
<trickie> but features that make what we say in the docs is wrong is worse than inconsistent artwork
<jsgotangco> we can always say that we're using a pre=release version
<hypatia> but I would also like the doc screenshots to mirror a default desktop perfectly if possible.
<mdke> trickie, agreed
<froud> that is lot sof overhead
<hypatia> which would mean no late artwork changes.
<mpt> "Objects in mirror may be newer than they appear."
<Burgundavia> so when do we want the artwork freeze to be?
<mdke> the screenshots shouldn't take too long to recapture, given a reasonable freeze
<froud> chaps in i18n are gonna scream
<Burgundavia> for the quickguide it shouldn't be too bad
<mdke> froud, i don't think so, they just do the words
<Burgundavia> other docs it becomes an issue
<jsgotangco> especially to what were planning on
<jsgotangco> the visual stuff
<froud> remember we have captures for each language
<Burgundavia> anyway, the point is, when do we want the artwork to freeze?
<mdke> froud, yeah but we will have to do them all
<froud> in each language
<mdke> afaics
<froud> perhaps we can capture without the window
<trickie> well if we are going to have consistent artwork across langauges the freeze will have to be before string freeze
<Burgundavia> trickie, can it not be at the same time>
<jsgotangco> do we have a definite time line at the moment for breezy
<jsgotangco> maybe we can refer to that
<trickie> Burgundavia, yeah you are... same thing
<mdke> jsgotangco, no they will define it at UDU
<mdke> hence this meeting
<Burgundavia> ok, when is our breezy string freeze?
<Burgundavia> breezy is october 2005, around the same time as warty
<mdke> Burgundavia, they are reworking their plans at UDU, that is why mdz wanted our feedback
<mdke> so that it could be put into the equation
<Burgundavia> how many weeks before release was our string freeze this time?
<froud> mdke: that is point 2
<mdke> froud, they are the same
<froud> we are still on point1
<froud> are they
<trickie> no
<froud> 1 is comms
<mdke> well if we're talking about time needed for freezing, this is point 2
<trickie> I think the first one was also about creating some relationships between the doc team and the developers
<hypatia> yeah.
<hypatia> point 1 is communication.
<hypatia> let's get that out of the way.
<mdke> lets focus on that then
<Burgundavia> have we decided on a date or at least a 'weeks before' timeframe?
<froud> we have established flow and coms with i18n processes
<mdke> Burgundavia, can we leave that until we come onto point 2?
<Burgundavia> sure
<froud> for devels we need interaction
<hypatia> so, re point 1, trickie has agreed to try and interface a bit with the devel team.
<froud> we need note of updates
<mdke> in terms of communication, we can't do much more than encourage them to let us know when major changes occur
<trickie> We were talking last week about having someone from doc team hangin out on the dev list trying to catch features that impact on docs
<hypatia> trickie: can you summarise your plans again?
<mdke> mdz mentioned at the Technical board meeting that he thought it was unfeasible to monitor the whole devel list just for issues which will be fairly rare
<froud> I agree with mdz
<hypatia> mdke: but if we have people reading devel out of interest anyway, then they can help fill us in as a bonus.
<Burgundavia> I currently am subscribed to ubuntu-devel and breezy-changes
<froud> we need a single point
<hypatia> I agree that it would be a huge load *just* for this task,.
<hypatia> froud: a single point of what?
<jsgotangco> mabye a weekly report perhaps?
<froud> we need an rss feed
<hypatia> an rss feed of what?
<Burgundavia> probably easier to just forward a summary of each issue to the doc list
<hypatia> froud: I'm sorry, I'm not following.
<mdke> Burgundavia, ++
<trickie> Burgundavia, +1
<Burgundavia> as it happens, like
<froud> devs need to comm in a way that we get automatically and without much overhead to them or us
<mdke> also mdz mentioned that he would bear in mind the fact that the docteam should be informed if a change obviously affects the docs
<hypatia> froud: but what exactly do they need to communicate?
<jsgotangco> a weekly summary wouldn't be that much to them imo
<hypatia> froud: is there any (semi-)automatic way to determine docs relevant changes.
<trickie> we also need to make a formal introduction to the dev teams identifying what our concerns were last release and maybe some examples
<froud> like decisions made, changes made
<hypatia> I mean, above the beezy-changes list.
<hypatia> breezy-changes
<froud> where is it
<mdke> jsgotangco, the thing about a formal weekly summary is that most stuff in the devel list is not relevant to our work, its only just occasionally
<Burgundavia> hypatia, not really
<froud> we need to feed off what is pertinentto us
<hypatia> froud: breezy changes is at http://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/breezy-changes
<hypatia> froud: but it is very high volume.
<froud> hypatia: I alrwady get a huge amount of mail
<Burgundavia> hypatia, froud breezy changes is the actual package change logs
<froud> 800 a day
<hypatia> Burgundavia: I know.
<hypatia> Burgundavia: I'm trying to get froud to explain where the "only stuff that is relevant to us" is going to come from.
<Burgundavia> I think we need a person to filter the devel list
<froud> we need to filter
<trickie> I think monitoring breezy-changes is more than one person could do reliably
<Burgundavia> and then we need a devel to tell us when changes are made
<mdke> Burgundavia, +1
<jsgotangco> +1
<hypatia> So do we want developers to be familiar with documentation of the packages they maintain?
<froud> so long as those persons are always there and consistant at doing it 
<trickie> or even ubuntu-specific documentation
<jsgotangco> have they even read our hoary docs
<hypatia> jsgotangco: I know some have in parts.
<froud> I see  2 levels
<mdke> it would be nice if they did
<froud> 1. Desktops
<froud> 2 apps
<hypatia> I don't think it's reasonable to expect them to read the entire set of docs.
<Treenaks> then we'd have to keep 2 changelogs
<Treenaks> which is annoying
<mpt> Another way to do it would be to have a QA effort for the docs
<mpt> Go through them and check that the instructions still work
<mdke> Treenaks, that would be too formalised i think
<Burgundavia> mpt, there is already going to be a dev qa, right after string freeze
<hypatia> right, a qa is a good idea.
<Treenaks> mpt: how about proofreading by people who know a thing about writing style?
<hypatia> and then we freeze for translation.
<mpt> Treenaks: I volunteer for that :-)
<Burgundavia> I think it might be easier, if right before string freeze, everybody tests the docs
<froud> I think we are underestimating the size ofthe problem and we are not looking to reduce the overhead
<Burgundavia> have a week set aside for that
<froud> instead we are increasing it
<hypatia> mpt: but one problem is convincing the dev team to stop making changes after the docs freeze.
<mpt> yes
<Burgundavia> hypatia, the feature freeze should cover most of this
<hypatia> froud: I don't understand whether you're suggesting anything or simply saying "all suggestions so far are too much work and will fail"
<hypatia> so, to recap.
<froud> hypatia: we are a small team withmuch to do
<froud> the more admin the kless gets written
<trickie> i also think the overhead being talked about is too much
<trickie> there wasn't that much that came out wrong 
<hypatia> froud: the latter then.
<hypatia> froud: do you think that present interaction with the doc team is adequate>
<mdke> all that is being suggested is that some of us monitor the devel list, and that the devels (as mdz has already undertaken) will contact us when there are major changes which may affect the documentation
<froud> I would like to find ways to automate as much possible
<mdke> i don't think that is too much overhead, IF some people already follow that list for fun/other reasons
<trickie> mdke, yeah i think monitoring is good also
<hypatia> froud: do you presently have any such ways to suggest?
<mdke> froud, you can't automate communication
<hypatia> right, recapping.
<trickie> introducing extra QA is not
<hypatia> Presently, suggestions are:
<froud> In part you can
<hypatia> 1. That we have monitoring of the development mailing list
<jsgotangco> we can do little bits of QA before committing instead of doing one whole QA session before freeze
<hypatia> 2. That the development team make an effort to inform us of documentation relevant changes.
<hypatia> 3. That the QA process be improved (somehow)
<froud> 1. +1
<Burgundavia> why don't we delay the qa process, and discuss on the list
<froud> 2. How
<Burgundavia> the rest is good
<mdke> 1,2, ++
<Burgundavia> froud, I think the best we can do is ask them to do their best
<froud> 2. supposes they will
<hypatia> Burgundavia: I think a changed QA procedure will take at least another thread to nut out, don't worry about that.
<froud> I suppose they will not in most cases
<hypatia> Alright...
<hypatia> Imagine for a moment the best of all possible worlds.
<Burgundavia> froud, we can review in a month or two and give feedback
<hypatia> What would "notification from the devel team of changes" look like?
<jsgotangco> 2. i only expect mdz at the moment but hopefully it will improve
<Burgundavia> hypatia,  a post to the list
<Burgundavia> saying what changed
<jsgotangco> an alert perhaps
<Burgundavia> mostly the thing we need notice of is UI changes
<daven> is there a list of all planned features/changes, that they could indicate a possible externals impact?
<hypatia> daven: I doubt it. A lot of user visible changes come from the new GNOME release, and their feature freeze is kinda the same time as Ubuntu's.
<Burgundavia> daven, more will come out of UDU
<froud> sorry this is to loose for me, I think devels should create bugzilla's for documentation changes
<Burgundavia> froud, ugh, too much overhead
<hypatia> that's a good idea froud.
<hypatia> Burgundavia: who for, them or you>
<froud> the devels use bug trackers heavily
<Burgundavia> hypatia, both
<Burgundavia> the devels hate bugzilla
<Burgundavia> that is why they are developing malone
<jsgotangco> they can just use the current bugzilla perhaps
<Burgundavia> why don't we jump on malone?
<froud> So then we must be part of their bug system
<hypatia> Burgundavia: well, in a "best of all possible worlds" discussion you can ignore the overhead for them for the moment.
<froud> I dont care which
<hypatia> Burgundavia: what's the overhead for you?
<Burgundavia> hypatia, I find bugzilla to be very clunky and hard to navigate and organize info
<Burgundavia> hypatia, and very very rigid
<mpt> Malone is hard to navigate too
<mdke> you want every developer to consider what change to a package impacts on documentation in whatever slight way, and document that?
<mpt> but I'm working on it
<mpt> :-)
<mdke> i think that is excessive
<jsgotangco> but they use it!
<Burgundavia> mpt, malone is being developed
<hypatia> Burgundavia: mpt is on the launchpad team...
<froud> Changes should have check boxes
<Burgundavia> hypatia, I know that
<Burgundavia> hypatia, sorry, that sounded rude
<mdke> it is our job to pick up on changes in programs and document them, all we need is a reasonable time before release that changes are not made, and LATE changes are communicated
<froud> if the doc checkbox is selected we get updates
<Burgundavia> anyway, the major changes we need are UI changes
<hypatia> Burgundavia: tis OK
<Burgundavia> froud, add doc-team CC?
<froud> yes
<froud> tight
<froud> not get lost
<froud> broadcast via our list
<froud> clear
<froud> trackable
<Burgundavia> I say we go for malone as our stuff is not that critical and malone is going to get better
<hypatia> OK, so from my 1, 2 and 3...
<froud> little overhead
<froud> inline to devel
<hypatia> "1. monitoring of devel list" seems to be pretty popular
<Burgundavia> mpt, malone "feels nicer" to use
<froud> integrated
<froud> 1. can do but not reliable
<trickie> 1. can do but same... not consistently
<froud> hypatia: I would like o see processes integrated and sustainable
<hypatia> "2. Devel team to inform documentation team of updates" is not so popular, may be too much overhead. There's also some dispute over whether using Bugzilla is good or not.
<mdke> guys I think this is getting carried away: developers have no duty to communicate to us changes made before freeze: this is our job to follow the devel os: its changes AFTER freeze which need to be communicated to us
<froud> +1
<trickie> 2. Malone sounds good, and if we could get something like the checkbox froud talked about that would be better
<Burgundavia> bugzilla doesn't really track new features
<hypatia> "3. That the QA process be improved" is considered a big job and is deferred to the mailing list.
<hypatia> mdke: OK, that seems fair.
<froud> +1
<hypatia> So 2a "Devel team to inform documentation team of updates after freeze"
<Burgundavia> 2. Devel team to notify of changes primarily to the UI of programs
<mdke> "made after freeze"
<jsgotangco> hmmm why is that it is their software creation in the first place
<Burgundavia> before freeze is nice too
<mdke> Burgundavia, it may be nice, but its our job to monitor that, not theirs IMO
<froud> at anytime
<Burgundavia> I don't think we should limit ourselves to after freeze
<froud> create a habit
<daven> mdke: but surely if we can make it easy for them to tick a box and say "hey i think there's a doc impact on this", there's no reason not to?
<froud> if suddenly you intro a new thing mid way they will not do it
<jsgotangco> id prefer notification anytime that impacts the whole docs
<hypatia> Well, how about we take that to mdz and ask which is feasible:
<mdke> daven, i'm not sure it is that simple, but then again I'm not a developer
<Burgundavia> daven,froud, I think you overestimate the usage of bugzilla by the devs
<hypatia> after freeze only, after freeze and before where possible, always.
<froud> Burgundavia: what do they use
<mdke> they use their heads
<Burgundavia> froud, most of the stuff comes down from gnome
<mdke> and UPSTREAM
<froud> Burgundavia: we need to be in their process and cycle
<hypatia> I think the devels use bugzilla for bugs.
<Burgundavia> froud, and the team is very small
<daven> mdke: from personal experience i think you're right - where i work devs ignore the "docs hit" box... but i think that's just tradition :-s
<mdke> all major system changes come from upstream
<Burgundavia> froud, there heads and #canonical I would guess
<hypatia> For features and planning they use the wiki/the mailing list/irc.
<Burgundavia> s/there/their
<mpt> The "Masters of the Universe" are currently using Malone, the rest using Bugzilla.
<hypatia> OK, so are we ready to wrap up point 1?
<Burgundavia> hypatia, yes
<froud> ok by me
<mdke> i think we should, this meeting was called for point #2 mainly, due to the urgency of doing it before UDU
<mdke> but we also need to deal with point #3 before UDU
<hypatia> Conclusions I drew were: better monitoring of devel is a good idea, better informing by devel would be nice but we still need to sort out mechanism and figure out to what extent devel can actually do this (mdz would be person to inform)
<hypatia> right.
<hypatia> OK, point 2.
<froud> +1
<jsgotangco> sounds good
<Burgundavia> worksforme
<hypatia> there's actually 2 subpoints, so let's deal with them in order.
<hypatia> point 2a.
<hypatia> a list of items that affect documentation
<Burgundavia> artwork, UI changes of other kinds
<froud> can be added to teamstuff in svn
<hypatia> any other ideas?
<froud> think we will have to think on this list
<hypatia> yeah.
<Burgundavia> ok
<hypatia> but let's do what we can with those suggestions.
<Burgundavia> what is 2b?
<mdke> 2b is the amount of time necessary for us to adapt to late changes in the things listed in 2a
<hypatia> Burgundavia: if one of these areas (artwork etc) changes, how long does updating the docs take?
<hypatia> so, let's start with artwork.
<Burgundavia> hypatia, if the artwork changed, like hoary, we would need new screenshots
<jsgotangco> taking screenshots on en and i18n
<froud> we can obviate the artwork problem
<jsgotangco> i18n is a concern
<froud> dont capture window frame
<mdke> screenshots without window frames
<Burgundavia> the major issue I see here is sabdfl
<froud> nah
<hypatia> Burgundavia: with the artwork, or with timing in general?
<jsgotangco> but he recognizes the problem
<Burgundavia> we have a natural conflict here
<Burgundavia> he wants to keep the artwork until the last sec, so as not to spoil the party, which is natural
<Burgundavia> but we need it to document it
<froud> Burgundavia: just dont capture artwork
<mdke> Burgundavia, not sure about that
<mdke> Burgundavia, there was a time limit set for artwork, but it was late
<Burgundavia> froud, huh?
<mdke> who thinks that screenshots without window frames is desirable? IMO it might be a shame to lose them.
<mdke> but it may have more powerful advantages
<froud> On screen captures dont capture the frame
<Burgundavia> ick
<hypatia> I assume artwork is an integral part of the "Applications" menu though?
<hypatia> ie the icons...
<Burgundavia> I think most people wouln't understand
<froud> we dont use icons
<Burgundavia> and anyway, the artwork changes are deeper than that
<froud> explain
<Burgundavia> selection boxes
<froud> my question is
<Burgundavia> anything that could be themed, was
<froud> can a user use the instruction to accomplish a task
<froud> that takes precedence
<mpt> Window titles can be important for that
<Burgundavia> I don;t see how truncated screenshots are going to help?
<mdke> i think at the technical meeting mdz was perfectly happy to put in place a system where the artwork is frozen beforehand
<froud> mpt: if important include
<mpt> ("Is this the right window, or not?")
<mpt> yeah
<mdke> we should at least put this forward at UDU, if sabfdl overrules it, then we can talk about solutions
<froud> if not dont
<Burgundavia> then we have inconsistent docs
<Burgundavia> and that looks even worse
<froud> mpt: intructions should be action reaction
<froud> do this
<froud> that is opened
<froud> no need for screencapt
<Burgundavia> much easier to explain with a screencap, but we digress
<Burgundavia> we are discussing artwork freeze dates
<hypatia> indeed we do digress.
<froud> Images need to be used sparingly
<jsgotangco> hmm in a stylish way, we'll have inconsistent screenshots
<trickie> If they are going to include an artwork freeze then we should not take SS till then, otherwise we have option
<hypatia> Let's proceed with the assumption for the moment that we won't have completely artwork free shots.
<trickie> no option
<Burgundavia> what was the freeze for hoary? the string freeze that is?
<mdke> hypatia, +
<hypatia> Let's assume we've already taken the screenshots.
<hypatia> And then there's a major change in one of the interfaces.
<mdke> we work on the basis that they have expressed a will to freeze the artwork earlier. The question is, how long will it take us
<froud> if time permits then update them after artwork release
<hypatia> How long does it take to fix up the shots?
<froud> otherwise tuff
<hypatia> That's the number that mdz has asked for.
<froud> over 12 books
<trickie> then we would need as much time as it takes to retake all the sreenshots * number of i18n shot
<mdke> it depends on l18n: if we delegate them, then IMO no more than 2-3 weeks
<froud> depends on the number of books and languages
<hypatia> He's asking "if we make late changes, how long do you guys need to catch up?"
<jsgotangco> hypatia depends on the docs but also consider i18n specific shots
<mdke> i think we can delegate l18n specific shots to the locoteams
<Burgundavia> I would ask for a month at least
<jsgotangco> mdke +1
<hypatia> jsgotangco: I know. mdz wants a conservative estimate, do you have any idea what it would be?
<mdke> but if we do them ourselves, it will take longer
<froud> loco teams can do it
<trickie> One seems logical... at least until our doc base grows alot larger
<jsgotangco> mdke true some i18n teams do subscribe to ubuntu-doc
<trickie> one month ...sorry
<mdke> I am happy to try and coordinate the locoteams to do this job
<froud> but asking them to do it again just for color is not on
<froud> which means that we can only release to loco teams after art freeze
<trickie> i agree... one month lets us retake our shots and then hand over at the string freeze for translation
<froud> which leave little time for translations
<mdke> froud, that's the whole point of this discussion
<froud> I know
<Burgundavia> screenshots and translations can take place simultaneously
<hypatia> right, so the answer for artwork seems to be about 1 month.
<mdke> froud, and its not a question of translation, its just a question of taking the captures
<froud> and why I am saying that the artwork is not the main issue
<Burgundavia> they are not mutually exclusvie
<hypatia> or rather, the answer for anything needing new shots is 1 month.
<mdke> froud, but we are talking about the artwork
<froud> no it is translation and screen capt
<froud> Ok hold with me
<hypatia> it is purely screen capture at the moment.
<mdke> froud, translation of the documents is a separate issue and is OT imo
<froud> we give a pot file
<hypatia> we'll get to the translation in a minute.
<froud> it may be way before art
<froud> thenlater we come back and ask for capts
<mdke> froud, yes
<Burgundavia> froud, how do we give a pot file before string freeze?
<hypatia> hang on.
<froud> the translators will be doing other things by then
<Burgundavia> froud, huh? what other things?
<froud> other documents
<froud> not ours
<mdke> here's what I see. our string freeze -> our document translations -> (later stage) artwork freeze -> screenshot capture for both en and other languages
<hypatia> OK, so then mdz's next question is "if we do something that requires a change to the writing in the docs (after the freeze), how long does it take to put the new info in?"
<Burgundavia> why is string freeze before artwork freeze?
<mdke> Burgundavia, because translating takes longer than snapping a few screenshots
<Burgundavia> strings are probably easier to translate
<Burgundavia> than taking screenshots
<Burgundavia> and can be done anywhere
<froud> yes they are
<mdke> translating is a lot more time consuming that screenshots
<Burgundavia> as where as screenshots require a default install of breezy
<froud> to take a capture the person has to find the exact same screen
<froud> to translate a string they type inline
<mdke> i've tried both so trust me
<mdke> anyway we are way OT
<froud> taking captures takes time
<hypatia> so, on topic now.
<hypatia> what's the answer to mdz's question?
<hypatia>  "if we do something that requires a change to the writing in the docs (after the freeze), how long does it take to put the new info in?"
<froud> there can be none at this time
<froud> mdz has asked those question too early
<jsgotangco> we havent even seen breezy
<mdke> its us that raised the question, not him
<mdke> i think a month is reasonable for both things
<trickie> agree... meaning if it is the last month it will cause some havoc possibly
<hypatia> OK.
<hypatia> Anything else for point 2?
<Burgundavia> nope
<jsgotangco> none at this moment for me
<hypatia> ok, point 3.
<hypatia> web portal.
<Burgundavia> http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/DocTeamWebPortal
<Burgundavia> everybody read it?
<trickie> at which point i have to bow out i am afraid
<mdke> the main question here IMO is that 
<trickie> sorry... see ya later
<jsgotangco> i havent sorry
<hypatia> trickie: good night.
<froud> later
<mdke> we need to ask sabdfl is he is willing to throw some devels at this question
<hypatia> jsgotangco: it's very short, can you have a look?
<mdke> hence it needs to be thrown into the melting point at UDU i think
<jsgotangco> just finished ok im game
<froud> well I have a Lnya working very well
<hypatia> so, jeff waugh told me that we could follow up through him and he can tell us the next step in pushing the proposal through to Canonical to see if development could be funded.
<mdke> hypatia, cool
<froud> hypatia: the only question her eis how much development is needed
<froud> and how long will it take
<jsgotangco> if the whole system is good enough for them, there needs version control then for all the stuff to be done in the portal
<Burgundavia> gah
<mdke> froud, did you say that you had a working solution?
<Burgundavia> anyway, anything I miss?
<mdke> Burgundavia, i'll PM
<froud> yeah
<hypatia> froud: do you have any sense of the numbers at all?
<Burgundavia> mdke, cheers
<froud> not yet
<froud> I tried Docbook Wiki and it was hopeless
<froud> I tried Lenya and I am 90% there
<mdke> can you describe how it works?
<mdke> does it satisfy the points on that page?
<froud> all we need is developers to extend the editors for structured authoring
<froud> hypatia: I have no clue how much that will cost
<mdke> given the problems we have on the wiki, we need a good way to enforce quality control
<froud> covered
<Burgundavia> mdke, rss watchlists
<froud> covered
<Burgundavia> mdke, the other issue is that there is going to be nothing but presentation docs in there
<mdke> Burgundavia, that takes a certain amount of effort for lots of minor changes
<hypatia> froud: it would probably take a couple of weeks to do a decent cost estimate unless someone who was already familiar with the code did it.
<mdke> what are presentation docs?
<Burgundavia> mdke, docs for the great unwashed
<Burgundavia> not dev chatter
<Burgundavia> and garbage like that
<mdke> Burgundavia, yes i see
<mdke> a doc appeared on the wiki the other day recommending users to delete files in /etc/init.d/
<mdke> such as gdm
<froud> Apache Lenya must also stand up against the security muster
<Burgundavia> and it is java
<froud> http://lenya.apache.org/index.html
<froud> tomcat
<froud> cocoon
<jsgotangco> version control in wiki is good but access control is questionable for it may limit entry of prospective members
<Burgundavia> anyway, mark didn't quote a price or a time frame, so lets throw this at him, and see what happens
<mdke> we need something fairly concrete to throw at him
<mdke> jsgotangco, agreed
<hypatia> probably go through jeff.
<Burgundavia> from extensive experience on WP, limit article creation to logged in people
<Burgundavia> and let the anons play with the other stuff
<froud> Burgundavia: I cant test if it will stand up to the pounding it will get
<hypatia> he can probably doa reasonable job of deciding when it's concrete enough.
<mdke> Burgundavia, problem is that logged in people regularly delete wiki pages
<froud> I would like a sandbox system running at docteam.ubuntu.com
<mdke> froud, +1
<jsgotangco> nice idea
<Burgundavia> mdke, limit that as well. The deleting thing is crap I have never seen at any other wiki
<froud> Then let mark look at it and decide
<mdke> Burgundavia, ok
<Burgundavia> mdke, deleting should be a priv held by very few
<froud> Dudes I must go to lnch with family. Cheers
<mdke> froud, bye
<Burgundavia> cya
<jsgotangco> cya
<daven> ttfn
<Burgundavia> anything else?
<Burgundavia> is 6am here and I need to sleep
<mdke> that's it, but we need to compose one mail to mdz and one to jdub
<Burgundavia> and one to the list about what we talked about
<jsgotangco> hypatia are you going to UDU as well?
<hypatia> jsgotangco: Monday only.
<jsgotangco> right a holiday
<hypatia> Burgundavia: I think that's about it.
<Burgundavia> ok
<Burgundavia> I need to crash
<Burgundavia> good meeting
<mdke> sweet dreams Burgundavia 
<jsgotangco> hypatia recap at least?
<hypatia> Burgundavia: and you and/or froud follow up the web portal with jeff waugh please?
<hypatia> jsgotangco: of the meeting.
<hypatia> OK
<hypatia> so.
<Burgundavia> hypatia, I will let froud, as I haven't played with it
<hypatia> point 1:
<hypatia> 1. Better communication between DocumentationTeam and Development Team
<mdke> hypatia, on the list?
<hypatia> mdke: I'll do it here now and on the list in the next 24 hours.
<Burgundavia> morning/night/day all
<mdke> cool
<hypatia> mdke: you don't have to stay for the recap here :)
<mdke> hypatia, i'll do the mail to mdz on point 2
<hypatia> mdke: thanks.
<mdke> hypatia, thank you
<hypatia> We decided:
<hypatia>  * having some of us monitoring the development list and keeping an eye out for relevant changes would be handy
<hypatia>  * having developers inform us of relevant updates would be good to. The mechanism is yet to be decided, and the question of whether they'd do this only post-freeze or not should be defered to mdz
<hypatia>  * an improved QA process /may/ be needed but deserves a lot more discussion
<hypatia> Point 2:
<hypatia> #
<hypatia> Integration of DocumentationTeam needs into release freeze dates. MattZimmerman has asked for: 1) a list of items that we should be aware of which affect documentation (artwork? translations? desktop behaviour?), and 2) a conservative estimate of the time it would take to adjust for a change in one of those areas
<hypatia>  * It was not clear whether i18n of screenshots or translation of text is more time consuming or difficult, and thus the order of string freeze and artwork freeze is unclear
<hypatia>  * The consensus for time needed to integrate post-freeze changes was something on the order of a month.
<hypatia> Point 3:
<hypatia> Discussion of DocTeamWebPortal
<hypatia> froud has liked Apache Lenya very much, and thinks that the addition of a structured editor would make it suitable for our needs
<hypatia> development time needed is entirely unclear
<hypatia> froud to follow up with canonical (???)
<mpt> ok, bedtime for me
<mpt> thanks hypatia
<jsgotangco> it would be nicer if froud can do that before the 25th when all of canonical is there
<hypatia> hmmm, can someone send me a log of the meeting?
<mdke> sure
<hypatia> I don't think I had xchat logging...
<hypatia> mdke: ta
<mdke> remind me of the addy
<mdke> /msg
<jsgotangco> we have boglot
<hypatia> mpt: you're welcome, good night.
<daven> http://irclog.workaround.org/
<mdke> boglot is backwards tho ;)
<hypatia> daven: thanks.
<mdke> we also have: http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/
<hypatia> ta
<hypatia> I'm off, see you all around :)
<hypatia> I'll post a summary to the list tomorrow.
<jsgotangco> ok i guess this was a good meeting
<jsgotangco> its only 9:30pm hehe
<jsgotangco> ok
<jsgotangco> thanks hypatia
<hypatia> 11:30pm here :P
#ubuntu-meeting 2005-04-30
<dholbach> hai
#ubuntu-meeting 2006-04-24
<Riddell> sabdfl: most of #kubuntu-de doesn't agree with the kubuntu.de situation
<Razor-X> (Done.)
<sabdfl> Riddell: by "the situation" you mean that the web page currently redirects to some other place?
<sabdfl> Razor-X: thank you, good point
<Riddell> sabdfl: I mean the statement that was on there before
<mitsuhiko> sabdfl: to a completly unknown webpage full of gnome users ^^
<mitsuhiko> (but the webpage is blue ^^)
<Riddell> I also spoke to someone who's name was on there but didn't know what the grivances were about
<SHAKAL> lol mitsuhiko
<sabdfl> is it specifically amu and \sh that are upset and have taken this action? or is it a wider issue?
<smurf> sabdfl: right now there's no place for that discussion to happen, other than an IRC channel and a few non-kubuntu specific forum sites
<Riddell> sabdfl: I think it's amu who's upset, and he's convinced other people
<sabdfl> what i saw previously was amu being very upset because we had not been fast enough in responding to sysadmin requests
<rockin_stan> sabdfl: i do not think it is a wider issue
<mitsuhiko> sabdfl: afair only amu. \sh joined him a few hours later
<mitsuhiko> the rest of the subscribers was the kubuntu.de forum team
<sabdfl> he had a reasonable grievance, but i think the response was out of proportion
<Riddell> sabdfl: sysadmin and I think he also e-mailed silbs about some business stuff
<Riddell> with no response
<sabdfl> i'm not aware of that
<smurf> sabdfl: +1
<Lure> sabdfl: +1
<sabdfl> i'll email both amu and \sh and offer an olive branch
<sabdfl> both have done huge amounts for (k)ubuntu
<sabdfl> so lets not lose sight of this
<mdke> a lot of it sounds like it's about money, getting reimbursed for the website and being paid for developing kubuntu. highvoltage's blog post was the wisest comment I've read on it
<sabdfl> yes, well said highvoltage
<smurf> sabdfl: one of amu's assertions is that some KDE developers will not go near Gnomeish sites (for user support, among other things)
<Riddell> mdke: no, I don't think that's the case at all
<smurf> I think what we need to find out is whether that problem is "real"
<highvoltage> mdke, sabdfl: thank you.
<mitsuhiko> smurf: +100
<mdke> Riddell, well, the sysadmin request problem disappeared and the other grievances remained, which seemed to me to be about money. But you will know more
<mako> sabdfl: i think an email from you would be the best way forward
<sabdfl> alright, the main thing i wanted to establish is if we have a broader dissatisfaction in the kubuntu german community, or if it is focused around amu and \sh. it sounds like a specific issue, and i will reach out to try and resolve it
<sabdfl> the domain issue is interesting
<sabdfl> we do generally ask folks to transfer ubuntu domains to us to avoid something like this
<Riddell> amu did complain about a domain squatter, which I've not heard anything else about
<sabdfl> they have effectively ripped the carpet out from under their own community
<mitsuhiko> sabdfl: those are many
<Riddell> I noticed that amu registed kubuntu.eu
<sabdfl> which is not wise
<smurf> sabdfl: amu did demand that we remove "kubuntu" from ubuntuuser.de's "official support forum for ..." list
<Seveas> smurf, I found those demands ridiculous, I don't get why they want kubuntu to be completely separate
<rockin_stan> oh yes, he did :/
<Riddell> smurf: that's a fair request, kubuntu.de was the official kubuntu support site until he closed it
<Riddell> Seveas: they don't
<sabdfl> we should guard against an "ubuntu vs kubuntu" issue, smurf, so lets just be firm in maintaining the position that ubuntu is about the whole project, including kubuntu
<smurf> Riddell: official as designated by whom?
<lucasvo> I thought kubuntu is property of Canonical? So he shouldn't be the one registering kubuntu.eu and demanding to remove it from ubuntuusers.de
<smurf> sabdfl: exactly
<Seveas> Riddell, their mails seemed to say so
<juliux> Seveas, hm because amu want to have a link to his onlineshop on the site? 
<sabdfl> ok, i'm traveling a lot in the next 10 days but will try and get to the bottom of this
<Riddell> smurf: kubuntu.org/support.php
<sabdfl> what would you guys see as a satisfactory resolution - the domain pointing back where it was? where is the content that was there?
<Riddell> link to kubuntu.de now removed
<Riddell> sabdfl: it's on amu's server
<Seveas> Riddell, why have they never applied to be an official locoteam?
<Riddell> sabdfl: it would be nice to have the site back up and with it pointing to ubuntuusers.de and vice versa
<mdke> +1
<Riddell> I'll be surprised if that can happen, a good amount of trust has been lost
<sabdfl> was kubuntu.de a community site with wiki and forums etc?
<sabdfl> or just content?
* highvoltage would be happy if the official kubuntu support site was hosted on a canonical server, with an ubuntu org owned domain name
<Riddell> sabdfl: forums and mailing list
<mitsuhiko> sabdfl: a forum since amu couldn't work together with ubuntuusers.de
<juliux> sabdfl, there are also mailinglists on kubuntu.de
<sabdfl> ok
<mindspin> most will move to kubuntuusers.de
<tonyyarusso> highvoltage: +1 on that.  I would help with the image of support from Greater Ubuntu / Canonical.
<juliux> sabdfl, and they have the control about #kubuntu-de
<Riddell> Seveas: they did, they went through me, that's the process for kubuntu
<Yann2> just to write how it's going in France: we'll have a kubuntu team, which will have rw on the site ubuntu-fr.org; they'll be in charge for kubuntu promotion on ubuntufr's website.
<Riddell> juliux: ultimately I'm the freenode contact for #kubuntu* namespace
<mdke> Riddell, that's not so good. locoteams should be encouraged to deal with kubuntu and ubuntu (and others) together, I feel, if at all possible.
<juliux> Riddell, ah ok
<smurf> Yann2: that would be our preferred solution too
<sabdfl> well, i'm sorry that this has happened, but it seems to be more growing pain than major crisis. let's see if an olive branch helps. their status as anything official "kubuntu"-ish does depend on the CC, so we should be able to work something out
<Riddell> mdke: I insist upon it
<Riddell> mdke: but amu is a special case since he started kubuntu, I let him do his own thing
<mdke> ah, right.
<sabdfl> ok folks, i'm out of time. elmo, mako, sorry to duck off but thank you for steering!
<mdke> Riddell, so, having a separate channel for "officialdom" is a bad idea in general, but an exception was made for -de?
<mako> sabdfl: i have no doubt that we could work something out on our end
<mako> alright
<ogra> sabdfl, enjoy the rest of your evening 
<Riddell> mdke: are you talking about IRC?
<mitsuhiko> cya sabdfl
<mako> lets see what else we can cover
<mdke> Riddell, no, LoCo teams in general
* olive give an olive branch to the blue sky
<mako> we should probably still plan to get together later this week to do member processing :)
<mako> more meetings
<mako> yay
<mitsuhiko> mako: as long it's not on friday :)
<Riddell> mdke: meeting is moving on, poke me on #ubuntu-devel if you want to discuss
<mdke> Riddell, sure
<mako> someone wants to know the official trademark usage guidelines
<mako> from canonical
<mako> those are actually online
<Yann2> that's me
<mako> http://www.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/TrademarkPolicy
<mako> now
<Yann2> You want to use the logo in a desktop background. Go right ahead! You can even share your work by listing it on our artwork page
<Yann2> :/
<mitsuhiko> yay. thats a problem
<mitsuhiko> since some people make derived work based on the ubuntu logo
<AndreaVeri> mako ,membership apprival postponed to?
<AndreaVeri> *approval
<smurf> ... and some of these derived works (try to) convey political messages we do NOT want to be associated with
<mako> there seems to be a specific question about using the ubuntu logo to promote particular political positions
<tonyyarusso> Maybe there needs to be something like the US obscenity law for that, "we know it when we see it", for what's not okay in desktop backgrounds, with some pointers but open-ended.
<mako> AndreaVeri: a later (undecided) date
<AndreaVeri> ok perfect
<mitsuhiko> this one: http://www.gnome-look.org/content/show.php?content=37620
<ogra> smurf, ah, come on it was just a very bery bad april fools joke ... the guy s a big ubuntu fan
<mitsuhiko> smurf: exactly
<eyequeue> mako, so am i here inappropriately?
<tonyyarusso> mako: Some political positions should be fine, but others are considered to be enough of a problem to be illegal in many counries, and that's a bit different.
<mako> eyequeue: not inappropriately
<carthik> Enforcing legit usage of the logos and trademarks (Ubuntu/Kubuntu etc) could avoid issues of "squatting" and uglification. But I guess it's not easy to enforce trademarks, like many patents.
<mako> eyequeue: we just ran out of time with the full voting board
<kjcole> Some problems also are a matter of taste/humor:  When does one take it as a true political statement (or whatever) or as a bit of fun -- however questionable?
<smurf> ogra: which doesn't prevent other people from taking it seriously and asking pointed questions about it
<ogra> smurf, true ... 
<mako> so here's the deal
<Yann2> ogra > are both april jokes?
<mdke> Yann2, you might want to write up some of the potential problems you envisage in a bit more detail, and present it to the CC when the ideas are nice and concrete.
<ogra> but with a bit of research they would have found that he has just a bad sense of umor
<mako> the trademark is designed primarily to keep people from getting confused
<mako> what we really really don't want
<mako> is for people to take their distribution
<mako> that is not ubuntu
<ogra> Yann2, nope, i havent seen the fridge one
<mako> and to call it ubuntu
<mako> and to confuse people into thinking that it's the one that we put together, with support, a coc, etc
<mitsuhiko> ogra: i found out that too. but that doesn't solve to problem as such
<Yann2> I meant this : http://www.gnome-look.org/content/show.php?content=37620
<smurf> ogra: people who are easily offended by that sort of thing are notoriously bad at researching :-/
<ogra> mako, but we want to encourage people like http://www.nubuntu.org/
<mako> the point is not to make a situation where canonical is the only person who can talk about ubuntu or use the image
<gnomefreak> im all for creativity but i think some of the images that were pointed to on the agenda wiki should have been kept off public display it makes ubuntu look bad to people that didnt know it was a "joke"
<ogra> smurf, true as well 
<mako> what we don't want is for someone to put up a website
<mako> maybe selling a service or support
<tonyyarusso> gnomefreak: Agreed.  And for many people, those things can never be a joke.
<mako> and confusing people into thinking that it is official ubuntu support
<mako> control over the name and logo is one way to do that
<mako> but we want to encourage the types of uses that spread the word, the logo, and the name
<xorAxAx> isnt this whole thing about a guy who realised that he cannot continue to move his idea further on without co-operating with the big entity?
<Yann2> ok, so we should accept these derivations?
<mako> when it's used in reference to the actual product
<mako> so, http://www.nubuntu.org/ needs to get permission from canonical
<mako> imho
<lucasvo> I think gnome-look.org should look that they only offer politically correct themes. 
<Riddell> gnomefreak: how would you keep them off public display?
<mitsuhiko> mako: +1
<mako> because it's violated basically every thing on the list of guildeines that i posted earlier
<mako> and that has been on the website for years now
<tonyyarusso> Logo derivations should also be expected to adhere to the CoC like everything else.
<Riddell> lucasvo: you can vote down items on gnome-look to stop them being displayed
<mako> that may still be fine
<mako> but they need permission
<smurf> lucasvo: define "politically correct". :-/
<ogra> mako, sure, but its one example hwre the logo isnt abused like in all the others pointed out
<mako> i understand
<ompaul> mako the issue that is now faced is the kubuntu name may be missued, this has implications on a larger scale, and frankly one that could be a serious issue, maybe trademark protection should be used to recover problematic domain useage and point it back to base, after a process that is designed and approved by cc or tech board or sabdfl or some some combination of all to protect the name of ubuntu  - done
<mako> ogra: "abuse" is subjective
<lucasvo> smurf: yeah, that's exactly why I used this term :)
<mako> we've got a set of trademark guidelines, and it's the only that most clearly violates those
<mako> from a trademark law perspective, it is the one that is most threatening to the existance of the mark
<mako> imho
<mako> ompaul: trademark law already does cover domain ussage
<ogra> mako, free user driven ubuntu derivative == non-abuse, selling support as ubantu.com with the same logo and font == abuse ;)
<mako> ompaul: as part of the universal domain name dispute resolution process
<smurf> mako: I guess what I'd like to see is a CC resolution that states that the Ubuntu community does not condone using (part of) their look+feel to convey any messages that are ad odds with the Ubuntu philosophy as stated on our home page
<gnomefreak> Riddell: you cant really but i think it should be known ubuntu doesnt support those things
<mako> ogra: umm.. 
<smurf> which we can point people to
<ogra> mako, but i fuly agree they should ask for permission indeed
<nalioth> smurf: +1
<ompaul> smurf, +1
<mdke> when someone has a doubt about the use of the mark, all they have to do is ask, right? We did this once with ubuntu-it, and it was resolved quickly
<mako> ogra: i would put it this way: if you're using hte logo in either of those ways, you need a license
<mako> ogra: we would be very very happy to give on to nubuntu probably
<ogra> thats waht i mean 
<mako> ogra: and unwilling to give one to ubantu
<ogra> yep
<mako> but they both need them
<mako> yes
<mako> there is an email address
<mako> i don't know who answers it now
<mako> but i used to
<mako> which is why i know a little bit about this
<mdke> we mailed jane, dunno who gets the trademark mail though
<mako> trademark@ubuntu.com
<mako> and @canonical.com
* highvoltage would guess that it's claire
<elmo> marilize is behind trademarks
<mako> so, in terms of backgrounds and situations where it's not being used to promote another product or could not likely to confuse anyone into thinking that there is endorsement
<elmo> and they've given permission to nubuntu AFAIK
<mako> of a political message etc, i'd say it's fine
<Yann2> i'm fine with the trademark issue, we already sent a lot of emails to trademark@ :) But what should we do if someone posts a wallpaper like http://www.gnome-look.org/content/show.php?content=37620 ? Delete it? 
<mako> elmo: cool
<mitsuhiko> ok. i've to go. today is school and it's late
<mitsuhiko> good night all
<mako> Yann2: my personal opinion is that it's probably not a trademark violtion and should probably just be left
<mdke> Yann2, that's not being used to promote another product and won't confuse people into thinking there is endorsement
<SHAKAL> bye mitsuhiko
<mako> but if people at canonical disagree with me, they matter more on this issue
<highvoltage> night mitsuhiko 
<lucasvo> Yann2: afaik, it doesn't conflicts the trademark usage policy. maybe it conflicts with the law, in that case it should be removed
<BlueT_> mitsuhiko: see ya :)
<mdke> you can't stop people using your trademark for artistic purposes without any commercial gain, it's just silly
<Yann2> -1 for me, I clearly dislike the fact of seeing ubuntu associated with politics, which could be misunderstood by people visiting the website publishing them.
<elmo> I tend to agree with mako, FWIW, tho I don't count as Canonical in terms of trademarks
<mako> Yann2: i think it's in a forum where it is clearly user-contributed artwork
<ogra> Yann2, its just users ... as long as we dont publish it on our website they are as free as the internet lets them
<mdke> absolutely
<mako> it's like those ubuntu-butts pictures
<Yann2> ok, then... agreed.
<mdke> mmm
<Yann2> let's move on :)
<mako> smile, or don't, and move on
<ogra> (thats why i found the ubuntu ev reaction a bit ... umm funny)
<mdke> ok, we're nearly done. elmo answered the ed/kubuntu members question
<mako> mention rear-ends and the conversation ends
<kjcole> mako, I was going to mention the bikini bottom logo... ;-)
<ogra> kjcole, there is a logo ?
<mako> alright
<Seveas> about sub-locoteams: brazil and us already have them for instance
<lucasvo> kjcole: link? :D
<mdke> "Sub" LoCoTeams: this is fairly clearly answered on the locoteam pages, i.e. collaboration is very encouraged, and more locoteams are encouraged too
<mako> jerome is correct in answering the last question
<mako> sub-locos are fine
<mako> they're great
<kjcole> ogra, there was a photo on the fridge a while back as I recall... 
<mako> collaborate where possible
<mako> try not to over-fragment so nobody gets anything done
<Yann2> fine :)
<ogra> kjcole, gah, missed that
<kjcole> ogra, lucasvo I just looked but couldn't find it.
<ompaul> .cn want to talk to someone aabout them they are population wise huge and cover more space than most
<mako> but go ahead, and encourage people to participate in more than one :)
<mako> ompaul: that's fine
<ogra> ompaul, we'll have to yount them first before we belive them ... :)
<ogra> *count
<mdke> I tend to think sub locoteams are generally done well if under the overall umbrella of the country they are found in. But that might not work, e.g. in the US :)
<kjcole> as a subloco team leader, +8 ;-)
<SHAKAL> I go to bed, the work call tomorrow good night. cya@ll
<juliux> gn8 SHAKAL 
<ompaul> ogra, you gona run outa fingers and toes fast :-)
<mako> i think that's it
<mako> unless there is any other business
<mako> alright
<mako> we'll meet back here soon
<mako> i gotta run
<mdke> night all, thanks
<Seveas> ciao
<mako> later all
<ompaul> cheers
<mako> elmo: lets actually coordinate this over email :)
<ogra> ompaul, yes, but i'm always told .cn has the biggest population in the world ... did *you* actually meet someone who counted that ? 
<elmo> mako: yeah
<eyequeue> um, i'm rather unclear what i should be doing next, input anyone?
<ompaul> ogra, almost the offical figures are 1.2 or something like that 
<ompaul> ogra, me I go for 1.6 or so
<ogra> hey, i'm not serious :)
<atie_> sorry for whom here for membership today. :(
<atie_> bye all
<ompaul> ogra, watch the ball bounce :-)
<ogra> :)
<lucasvo> bye all
<lucasvo> ogra: hope to see you at tomorrow
<ogra> night lucasvo 
<lucasvo> been a long time since I last was attending edubuntu meeting :)
<ogra> :)
<juliux> gn8 all
<kjcole> ogra, lucasvo http://www.flickr.com/photos/86444323@N00/81971182/
<BlueT_> it's really diffical to show up at every meeting
<highvoltage> goodnight, everyone.
<BlueT_> when you're living in a UTC+8 timezone
<kjcole> ta-ta all.
<eyequeue> anyone?
<BlueT_> eyequeue: here's one
<eyequeue> thanks, BlueT_
<BlueT_> eyequeue: no need. i just got sleepless for frequently ubuntu-meetings
<eyequeue> BlueT_, did you have a suggestion as to my next action (re: membership)?
<BlueT_> eyequeue: i've no idea. i'm here waiting for them kicking me off too. lol
<BlueT_> eyequeue: this is my first time too, body :)
<Seveas> eyequeue, just wait for mako to mail relevant mailinglists about the next meeting
<eyequeue> BlueT_, you have an extensive wiki page :)
<BlueT_> eyequeue: the only thing i know and trying to do is making ubuntu better and better :)
<eyequeue> Seveas, i'm not subbed to any lists, but certainly can if i need to ... which would that be?  btw, i tried to sub to yours last night but the confirmation bounced, i can email the bounce message to you if it helps??
<Seveas> eyequeue, no, the lists on my server are wonky
<Seveas> I'll have to fix them
<eyequeue> Seveas, nuts.okkernoot.net
<eyequeue> Seveas, as far as i can tell, i'm only missing the messages about falcon, correct?
<Seveas> and about repo issues
<eyequeue> ah, i only found falcon in the list archives
<Seveas> on second though - please mail me the bounce 
<Seveas> that part of the lists should still work
<eyequeue> Seveas@ubuntu?
<Seveas> dennis@ubuntu
<eyequeue> sent :)
<Seveas> hmm
<Seveas> try adding YES to the subject
<Seveas> shouldn't be neccessary though
<eyequeue> :) Your subscription request has been succesfully confirmed!
<Seveas> apparently the simpleconfirm option is broken in couriermlm
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 19 Apr 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 19 Apr 13:30 UTC: Xubuntu | 20 Apr 20:00 UTC: Dapper Development Status | 25 Apr 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 26 Apr 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 26 Apr 13:30 UTC: Xubuntu
<bluekuja> @shedule
<bluekuja> shedule@
<bluekuja> omg
<juliux> @schedule berlin
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Berlin: 19 Apr 14:00: Edubuntu | 19 Apr 15:30: Xubuntu | 20 Apr 22:00: Dapper Development Status | 25 Apr 22:00: Technical Board | 26 Apr 14:00: Edubuntu | 26 Apr 15:30: Xubuntu
<juliux> @schedule rom
<cbx33> @schedule GMT
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Etc/GMT: 19 Apr 12:00: Edubuntu | 19 Apr 13:30: Xubuntu | 20 Apr 20:00: Dapper Development Status | 25 Apr 20:00: Technical Board | 26 Apr 12:00: Edubuntu | 26 Apr 13:30: Xubuntu
<bimberi> @schedule canberra
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Australia/Canberra: 19 Apr 22:00: Edubuntu | 19 Apr 23:30: Xubuntu | 21 Apr 06:00: Dapper Development Status | 26 Apr 06:00: Technical Board | 26 Apr 22:00: Edubuntu | 26 Apr 23:30: Xubuntu
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: Edubuntu | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 19 Apr 13:30 UTC: Xubuntu | 20 Apr 20:00 UTC: Dapper Development Status | 25 Apr 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 26 Apr 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 26 Apr 13:30 UTC: Xubuntu
<ealden> @schedule manila
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Asia/Manila: Current meeting: Edubuntu | 19 Apr 21:30: Xubuntu | 21 Apr 04:00: Dapper Development Status | 26 Apr 04:00: Technical Board | 26 Apr 20:00: Edubuntu | 26 Apr 21:30: Xubuntu
<flint> Good Morning from the frozen north...
<kjcole> Thank goodness for Daylight Savings Time....  It's not quite as miserable starting an hour later. ;-)
<JaneW> hi all
<cbx33> Hi
<AndreaVeri> hi JaneW
<AndreaVeri> :)
<cbx33> Hi AndreaVeri 
<AndreaVeri> hello pete :)
<BugMaN> hi
<AndreaVeri> oi BugMaN
<BugMaN> andreaveri: :-) 
<AndreaVeri> jane its all ok?we can start?
<JaneW> ok as usual, standard format
<AndreaVeri> oliver?
<ogra> yep
<JaneW> I have made notes to discuss the following The Dev Status, Bug Status, Testing Status, Artwork, Web Site progress, Documentation, Cookbook, Edubuntu Memeber status and anything else required to be discussed.
<AndreaVeri> hello :)
<AndreaVeri> ok
<cbx33> Excellent
<JaneW> ogra is busy so let's not take much of his time today
<ogra> i'm a tad busy with beta CDs
<AndreaVeri> ok perfect
<JaneW> ogra can you give us a 5 min update?
<AndreaVeri> okie oliver np
<ogra> testing of the next build (in 2-3h) would be very appreciated btw 
<cbx33> I can test the tomorrow
<ogra> so tech update ....
<flint> ogra, I can try but time is now a problem for me..
<JaneW> ogra: time stamp?
<ogra> we're building beta ... still missing artwork and edubuntu-docs ...
<AndreaVeri> ok ill start testing
<JaneW> ogra: is that all that remains now?
<AndreaVeri> for me its ok today
<ogra> should be  20060419.1 for both
<cbx33> where can i get them from?
<ogra> some small bugs i didnt manage to fix before beta as well
<ogra> i.e. the dhcp.config will currently produce a question on upgrades that shouldnt happen
<AndreaVeri> ok
<JaneW> ogra: things have gone really well this cycle, well done
<ogra> it's a minor change mdz is notified about
<JaneW> ogra: we only had the hicoughs with arguing about what was in and what was out initially
<ogra> the gobby upstream author contacted me
<JaneW> ogra: oh?
<cbx33> hehe
<flint> ogra, interesting what has gobby got to say...
<ogra> JaneW, you remember we had to demote it to universe in london because it depended on howl
<JaneW> yes
<ogra> he offered me a fix
<ogra> *yesterday*
<JaneW> oic, too late thogh right?
<Klaidas> @schedule GMT+2
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Etc/GMT+2: Current meeting: Edubuntu | 19 Apr 11:30: Xubuntu | 20 Apr 18:00: Dapper Development Status | 25 Apr 18:00: Technical Board | 26 Apr 10:00: Edubuntu | 26 Apr 11:30: Xubuntu
<ogra> so with a lot of begging at mdz's desk i can probably get it back to main and on the CD
<JaneW> ogra: er what's the chance of that?
<ogra> it is approved for main
<JaneW> ogra: it;s WAY past too late
<JaneW> ogra: yes I guess
<ogra> so it *could* be a no brainer, depending on mdz
<JaneW> ogra: well try, there's no harm in trying
<flint> ogra, good luck.
<JaneW> unless he beat you up! ;)
<ogra> its not to late for something we had already in imho... but its up to him
<JaneW> ogra: sure, I agree put the case to him and let him make a call
<ogra> i have fixed the issue with dhcpd.conf autogeneration btw
<ogra> sadly no dapper material anymore
<flint> ogra, is gobby on the cd now?
<JaneW> ogra: how are the bugs looking, need triage help?
<ogra> flint, not since the london sprint
<JaneW> flint: no
<flint> damn
<ogra> JaneW, not specifically for edubuntu bugs, no 
<ogra> there are not many
<cbx33> good good
<JaneW> ogra: do you most need the community to test more than anything else?
<ogra> most edubuntu bugs are ubuntu bugs
<JaneW> and document!
<ogra> yep
<JaneW> ogra: yes
<cbx33> I can document and test
<ogra> while documenting is also on my desk, since nobody knows the ltsp code as good as me, but cbx33 already offered some help
<flint> ogra, elkner has a question about this.  i told him that any but on the ubuntu cd reports as an ubuntu bug.  is that ok?
<ogra> so i'll just review and flesh out what i get 
<flint> any bug...
<ogra> not really 
<JaneW> ogra: I do think we are going to need to rely on you for some of the technical documenting (I am happy to do english grammar editing for you, so don't waste time on that), but if there are ppl willing and able to help, that would be wonderful
<ogra> having a distinction by package on launchpad wouldnt make much sense that way
<cbx33> JaneW: 
<ogra> JaneW, yep
<cbx33> I'm open to all documenting if you need it
<flint> ogra, we will need to clarify then how a bug reports.  Keep in mind that in malone now there is no "ubuntu" bug category
<ogra> i'll have to write a documented example lts.conf that nobody else will be able to do, but to write manpages for things like ltsp-build-client you just need to check the help of the script and flesh it out a bit
<cbx33> Initial setup of ltsp is a must unless it's somewhere i dont know
<ogra> so many doc thingies can be done by others
<ogra> cbx33, that happens by the installer
<ogra> apart from the dhcpd.conf
<cbx33> well i was trying to use an existing dhcp server to point to the ltsp server
<ogra> the only doc you need post install is https://wiki.edubuntu.org/LTSPServerSetup
<ogra> yes, we need a big warning that you shouldnt run two dhcp servers in one network
<cbx33> found that the tftproot doesn't hold the pxelinux.0 file
<cbx33> it's in a sub dir
<ogra> i was pondering to put it on the CD cover,, but it seemed a bit to scary
<ogra> cbx33, which is fine
<cbx33> yeh, seeing as it'll be a small amount of people using it
<ogra> and which no user should touch anyway
<cbx33> ogra: that's ok, just checking
<JaneW> cbx33: many thanks for offering to help with this
<cbx33> I had to point it with my current dhcp server, after following the wiki links it said just use pxelinux.0 which of course didn;t work....but no biggie
<cbx33> JaneW: np
<ogra> our tftpserver uses the right values... as long as you user the ltsp-* scripts for maintenance, all should function flawless
<cbx33> that's great then
<ogra> only special cases need documentation ...
<cbx33> indeed
<ogra> like powerpc
<cbx33> I had that nfs problem too
<ogra> (which needs some extra dhcp options)
<cbx33> now I'm pretty confident that that's because i was trying to use an existing dhcp server
<ogra> yep
<ogra> thats one of the most common bugs we have
<cbx33> is it possible to put in some docs about that
<ogra> sure
<cbx33> a lot of people will already have a dhcp server, esp in education
<ogra> it should be in the edubuntu getting started doic and in the cookbook faq
<cbx33> yes I agree
<ogra> its fine if you have a two NIC setup
<ogra> you can part the networks easily 
<cbx33> could we doc that too>
<ogra> sure
<flint> ogra, ya i thought that a 2 nic setup was standard.
<JaneW> ogra: exactly which docs are outstanding?
<JaneW> we have 'about Edubuntu' already right?
<ogra> flint, nope, one NIC standalone is the standard i worked along
<ogra> JaneW, needs polish and some adjustment
<JaneW> ogra: is anyone looking at that?
<ogra> and no, we dont have it ready to ship yet
<ogra> me
<cbx33> i can take a look if you want
<JaneW> jsgotangco or burgundavia etc?
<ogra> its already very good, but needs some edubuntu specific adjustment
<JaneW> oic
<ogra> and new screenshots
<JaneW> where is it now?
<ogra> they are made under the ubuntu theme
<flint> ogra, interesting implications Olli
<JaneW> I wonder if highvoltage could help with that?
<ogra> JaneW, he wrote it
<ogra> he can help indeed, but simply doesnt know some things 
<JaneW> er that's not the start-up page though is it?
<JaneW> I am referring to the Edubuntu FF page
<cbx33> is that new to dapper?
<ogra> like you should never ever add MOUSE_PROTOCOL=IMPS/2 to lts.conf since its autodetected... but you *have* to do it in classic ltsp
<ogra> the ff page will be "about edubuntu" 
<ogra> i was planning to just have a link in there to the getting started doc
<cbx33> good plan
<JaneW> oic, ok
<JaneW> I thought it was 2 sep things
<ogra> it is
<ogra> but i want to link the detailed doc from the common default page ...
<ogra> so yu have it right in your face if you open ff for the first time
<kjcole> ogra, very sensible.
<cbx33> yeh good plan
<ogra> http://proto.edubuntu.org/gettingstarted
<ogra> btw
<ogra> ^^^ there it is currently 
<kjcole> ogra, slick! Very nice.
<ogra> also i missed a lot of accessibility features on the CD, i had to add them yesterday night, they eat most of the free space i worked out the last weeks
<flint> ogra, indeed!
<JaneW> awesome and wow the site is looking GOOD
<AndreaVeri> really nice page
<JaneW> *clap* *clap*
<ogra> so there goes my big hope for more languages 
<cbx33> wow excellent work
<JaneW> ogra: I see your LTSP diagram is getting used nicely too :))
<ogra> yes, highvoltage is very good in this
<AndreaVeri> for italian language its ok for me
<ogra> JaneW, yeah :)
<cbx33> not much adaptation for UK :p
<juliux> ogra, i will ask if somebody can translate it into german
<JaneW> ok so that addresses my agenda item of web page, and what's happening
<ogra> juliux, great !
<JaneW> It seems it is happening in stealth-mode
<ogra> he occasionally pops in to #edubuntu and asks for opinions 
<ogra> so its not completely in stealth mode ;)
<JaneW> ogra: I haven;t seen that for a while
<JaneW> anyway I think it's awesome
<ogra> its always there ;)
<ogra> yep
<JaneW> and I was pretty attached to the first one
<ogra> and fits the desktop theme very nicely
<JaneW> so it was not an easy expectation to match
<JaneW> it our desktop theme set now?
<ogra> nope
<JaneW> bringing us on to artwork
<ogra> i have nothing from silbs
<JaneW> :/
<JaneW> !
<ogra> she was rather busy discussing CD cover text with me
<cbx33> silentkeystroke.deviantart.com - any images that can be of use from there feel free to use
<ogra> but i know mdz wanted to ask her after the last dev meeting
<flint> ogra, are they actually gonna print cds for this dapper edubuntu run?
<ogra> cbx33, we are bound to the design agency for the default theme
<cbx33> np - just offering :p
<ogra> flint, yep
<ogra> cbx33, i'd love to just pick one and be done ...
<flint> That IS good news!
<cbx33> indeed
<ogra> but the default has to be from the same agency ubuntu and kubuntu come from
<JaneW> ogra: ok we'd better mail her
<JaneW> ogra: are the colours not even set?
<ogra> i would expect that mdz's mails triggered her 
<ogra> i dont want to apper pushy
<JaneW> ogra: cos I am fairly sure your window frames etc can stay
<cbx33> the firefox logo - sorry just a little thing - looks so close to gimp
<ogra> i havent heard back about the colors
<ogra> imho the colors are fine as is 
<ogra> as well as the rest of the theme
<JaneW> unless the wall paper is VASTLY different
<cbx33> indeed
<JaneW> and I hope not, else that messes with our web site colours too
<ogra> just the wallpaper is missing
<ogra> yes
<cbx33> can we not impose any type of request there?
<ogra> but she said *we never had a colorcode for edubuntu*
<JaneW> ogra: yes I am assuming the colours can stay, so it;s shouldn't be too much of a panic
<cbx33> like "Please don;t make us do more work"
<ogra> that really depends
<ogra> they wont work if she reallly comes up with a chalkboard design
<JaneW> ogra: well *we* did, maybe it wasn;t generally known or understood though
<ogra> yep
<ogra> thats what i tried to tell her
<ogra> i'm not sure she agrees
<JaneW> but atm u-brown, k-blue, e-ornage and red
<ogra> yep
<ogra> ubuntu is also orange now
<JaneW> right
<ogra> but rather tangerine ... we're darker 
<JaneW> we are organge tending to red
<cbx33> heheh
<JaneW> pumpkin orange
<ogra> s/tending/accentuating with/
<ogra> :)
<flint> ...and in english nothing rymes with us.
<flint> :^)
<ogra> (red is our cherry on the cake ;) )
<JaneW> heh
<AndreaVeri> ehhe
<cbx33> :p
<JaneW> flint: lozenge rhymes loosely
<flint> JaneW, are you still taking drugs? :^)
<AndreaVeri> hi Seveas
<JaneW> ok so we need to pin the artwork down
<JaneW> flint: no I am drug-free now! \o/
<flint> lol
<cbx33> hehehe
<JaneW> can't you tell I am all high and manic again?
<JaneW> the morbid depression is gone :)
<flint> JaneW, I just assumed all this talk about lozenges...
<flint> :^)
<JaneW> ok edubuntu members
<JaneW> ogra: you discussed that with elmo last night
<juliux> yeah
<cbx33> indeed he did
<AndreaVeri> yeah
<flint> JaneW, who has debs on green in the ubuntu galixy?
<AndreaVeri> the decisions for new members have to be taked by team admins
<cbx33> or a nice Blue
<AndreaVeri> *taken
<AndreaVeri> so oliver and jane
<ogra> i'd like to have a *real* council for that 
<AndreaVeri> oh
<ogra> with more than two members
<cbx33> it would be good
<AndreaVeri> nice
<ogra> at least three so one can miss a meeting without holing up everything
<cbx33> gives a rounder feel to it and also mimicks the upstream policy
<AndreaVeri> yeah perfect
<JaneW> flint: you can have it
<JaneW> flint: actually I think xubuntu is green...?
<flint> JaneW, thanks.
<ogra> even five if that makes sense later, but starting with an additional person would be good for the beginning
<ogra> JaneW, grey iirc
* cbx33 dibs blue:p
<AndreaVeri> oliver who will decide other 3 members?
<JaneW> ogra: yes let's get several memebers to avoid what happened last night
<cbx33> the roiginal team mebers ?
<JaneW> I think 2 more than required number is good
<ogra> yep
<ogra> thats a good question
<AndreaVeri> yes ^^
<ogra> i guess we should make it vial the mailing list
<ogra> proposals etc 
<ogra> then hold a vote in one of the next meetings
<AndreaVeri> edubuntu-devel
<cbx33> proposal, seconded, vote?
<cbx33> works well for our LUG meetings
<flint> oh I vote for this...
<ogra> who cant be here, can send his/her voting via mail
<AndreaVeri> oh ok
<AndreaVeri> nice idea
<ogra> i'll prepare a mail right after beta is out
<AndreaVeri> ok
<cbx33> perfect
<ogra> note that the council members need to be ubuntu members already 
<AndreaVeri> yeah ok
<cbx33> a good plan
<AndreaVeri> i have to go now
<flint> ogra, that could limit educators...
<cbx33> take care AndreaVeri 
<AndreaVeri> im really really late
<AndreaVeri> see you all later
<cbx33> it limits me :p
<flint> AndreaVeri, chaio 
<cbx33> but then I am a new comer :p
<flint> AndreaVeri, ciao... better...
<ogra> flint, we wont make *any* members without signed CoC, a valuable contribution and a LP account
<AndreaVeri> ciao cbx33 , JaneW,ogra,flint
<AndreaVeri> ;)
<cbx33> is that for just edubuntu membership?
<ogra> flint, the exactly same erequirements as for ubuntu membership apply
<ogra> cbx33, nope
* cbx33 ticks 2 of those boxes :p
<ogra> you are automatically a ubuntu member if we added you to the edubuntu team
<flint> CoC is the public key?
<cbx33> just need to get the valued contribution out of the way .......:D
<ogra> flint, CoC == code of conduct
<cbx33> CoC is the code of conduct signed with the GPG
<cbx33> but don't attempt the newer one 1.0.1
<kjcole> flint, yeah signing the Code of Conduct with GPG.
<cbx33> unles you are goign to do it without putting spaces in the text
<cbx33> 1.0.1 has a bug
<flint> cbx33, hence my reference to the public key thing... 
<ogra> just dont modify it ;)
<cbx33> heheh
<cbx33> Next topic?
<ogra> flint, a) you have a CoC linked on your LP page, b) you need to upload your valid gpg key to your LP account, c) you need to click the sign button on the CoC page of your LP account
<ogra> thats it 
<ogra> (unless it changed indeed :P )
<flint> ogra, Ollie, I am a bit of an anarchist...  but I will do this if you suggest it...
<cbx33> flint: underlying rule : be nice :p
<kjcole> flint, I thought you already had.  (Didn't I walk you through that?)
<ogra> if you want and @edubuntu.org mail address, you *need* to do that
<cbx33> you can be a nice anarchist
<kjcole> cbx33, well I guess that leaves flint out. ;-)
<cbx33> hehehe
<cbx33> ogra: how often can people apply for edubuntu membership?
<ogra> as often as they want
<flint> cbx33, FITS == Flint Induced Touretts Syndrome, ask anyone how you can get it...
<cbx33> flint: by touching you :p
<ogra> there is no limitation in ubuntu, why should we have one
<JaneW> but applications will only be considered once a month to start
<cbx33> ogra: i meant how often will you approve new members
<ogra> cbx33, talking to him is usually enough :P
<cbx33> aaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrgggggghhhhhh
<ogra> cbx33, we thought about once a month
<ogra> (the first meeting every month)
<cbx33> sounds good, by that time I should have made my valuable contribution
<cbx33> hehehe
<ogra> youre already doing
<flint> ogra, Oliver, somethimes just thinking about me will do it...
<ogra> the testreport was really awesome :)
<ogra> flint, heh
<flint> :^)
<cbx33> thank you ogra want one on ltsp as i have tested so far
<cbx33> I'll try and try out the flight 6 one tomorrow
<ogra> rather test the beta release :)
<ogra> flight 6 is old
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> where can i get a copy
<cbx33> link in the topic?
<ogra> flint, btw: https://shipit.edubuntu.org/ exists
<cbx33> ogra: is kwiki in the edubuntu release?
<flint> ogra, thanks 
<ogra> cbx33, http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/
<cbx33> thanx ogra 
<ogra> nope we dont have wiki software included by default
<kjcole> ogra, NICE!  We've got some LoCo events coming up, and it may be time to put in a shipit request soon.
<cbx33> ogra: good...it's broken
<ogra> we discussed it, but the moin vs mediawiki argument came up
<cbx33> i see
<ogra> so we leave them both optional in universe :)
<cbx33> I'm working on a fix, but it leads to a string of unsync'd dependencies
<leetcharmer> hihi all :D
<leetcharmer> how's the meeting goin'?
<cbx33> which I'm having to request UVF exceptions on
<cbx33> great leetcharmer 
<leetcharmer> cbx33, good :D what have did I miss so far?
<ogra> cbx33, if UFV exceptions fix blocker bugs,, they usually get approval
<cbx33> ogra: think there's a chance of getting sadms in edubuntu at somepoint
<cbx33> or a similar utility?
<JaneW> also thanks to mgalvin, we have https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuDapperBeta
<JaneW> but it needs to be fleshed out
<ogra> sadms ?
<ogra> did he add my feature list already ? 
<cbx33> the configuration utility for linux to auth against a MS AD
<ogra> hmm and the participate link is wrong ... didnt we have our own participate page ? 
<ogra> hmm, actually no
<ogra> the wiki has some rough statements on the frontpage
<ogra> but thats all
<ogra> we could need a proper "participate" page then
<cbx33> that'd be good
<leetcharmer> so -- is Edubuntu ready for the dapper beta release in 11 hrs?
<ogra> https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuWiki "how can i help" is a bit sparse
<cbx33> of course
<cbx33> ogra: is working hard
<ogra> leetcharmer, sure
<cbx33> for someone who could only spend 10 minutes :p
<cbx33> I think he's done amazing
<leetcharmer> cool :D
<ogra> actually rather my nerves work hard ... most of the time is waiting for LP 
<leetcharmer> LP?
<ogra> which is most annoying
<cbx33> heheh
<cbx33> I know the feeling
<cbx33> LaunchPad
<leetcharmer> gotcha
<ogra> 3h until a change is up ... 
<flint> don't we have to pay the Presley estate to use the "...left the building" thing?
<ogra> then another hour to get CDs ...
<ogra> then syncing ...
<ogra> (which is also almost 1h for all isos)
<leetcharmer> I hope Ubuntu final release gets better support for my laptop than Flight 5 did :D
<cbx33> i hope the battery applet is fixed in dapper
<leetcharmer> worked fine for me
<leetcharmer> what's the problem been?
<cbx33> it always says AC power
<cbx33> but that's offtopic now
<flint> ogra, you are building the final flight then right now.
<cbx33> what's next on the agenda?
<leetcharmer> final flight = beta, no?
<ogra> there will be more fligts
<flint> so we are at flight 7 in this build
<ogra> we still have some weeks ahead, people shall see the progress
<leetcharmer> ogra, you gonna make a flight 6 before the beta release?
<ogra> you mean that flight 6 from two weeks ago ? http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/releases/dapper/flight-6/
<bimberi> leetcharmer: flight6 is out - http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/releases/dapper/flight-6/ :)
<leetcharmer> I mean 7**
<bimberi> ah
<ogra> nope, beta == flight 7
<leetcharmer> gotcha :D
<leetcharmer> did we get new graphics yet? :D:D:D:D
<ogra> ther will be the release candidate and i guess at least another milestone release inbetween
<flint> ogra, I thought it was 7 and like it better than beta as a name... 7 being a lucky number...
<flint> :^)
<leetcharmer> :p no such thing as luck
<leetcharmer> ^_^
<ogra> nope, no new wallpaper yet 
<ogra> we're still waiting
<JaneW> ok so I'll try to chase the wallpaper with silbs and toxic
<ogra> and given that i wont change the CD if its not oversized in this build i currently wait for, it wont happen for beta
<JaneW> let get going with the doc translations
<JaneW> the site looks great
<ogra> yeah
<JaneW> and ogra will ask mdz about gobby
<JaneW> and get beta out
<ogra> :)
<leetcharmer> d'oh!
<ogra> after beta
<JaneW> everyone else test and report back please
<ogra> he's busy enough atm
<JaneW> ogra: ok
<bimberi> ogra: will the url (in 3 hours) be http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/releases/dapper/beta/dapper-install-i386.iso  ?
<cbx33> of course
<JaneW> let's leave ogar to get on with it
<ogra> bimberi, nope
<JaneW> thanks for the time ogra
* bimberi wants to set up a wget atjob
<ogra> that'll be the url if the beta release is actually out
<leetcharmer> will edubuntu dapper have a 'create thin client server' setting that sets up all connected machines on a network?
<bimberi> ogra: ah kk
<ogra> bimberi, if you already have an older iso around, rsync is the far better choice
<cbx33> ogra: where can we find the url
<ogra> (rsyncing between two dailies happens for me in ~10 min, while a wget download trakes 2h)
<ogra> cbx33, http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/
<flint> ogra, would you care to spew out a working rsync line?  this would help us get it right at our sites...
<bimberi> ogra: ah, gotcha - use the daily build :)
<cbx33> cheers ogra 
<flint> ogra, rsync and I get along but only a little, and I very much like that idea.
<ogra> the recent upcoming daily and daily-live ( 20060419.1) should be fine (if they are not oversized due to the added accessibility stuff)
<cbx33> ogra: which ltsp stuff do you need me to document?
<bimberi> ^^^^^
<ogra> cbx33, the scripts first place
<leetcharmer> hwat!
<leetcharmer> hawt**!!
<ogra> ltsp-build-client -upadte-sshkeys and -update-kernel
<leetcharmer> I like EdgyEft :D
<cbx33> np I'll get on with that, have they changed much from breezy to dapper?
<cbx33> seeing as I don;t have time to install edubuntu dapper at the moment, is ther eanywhere I could get a copy of the scripts from....so i can start docing on the way home?
<cbx33> ogra: do you use sgml for man pages?
<ogra> apt-get source ltsp 
<ogra> look in the server subdir
<flint> ogra, I may actually try to get a wiki going on this rsync thing... downloading the isos is a drag.
<cbx33> thanks ogra
<ogra> flint, i have a rsync script
<ogra> http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/rsyncer.sh
<flint> ogra, thanks, I could really use it.
<flint> ogra, damn, thanks.  This could be widely published and available...
<ogra> run it with --help to see the options ... it defaults to create an edubuntu directory in your current dir
<ogra> and to download live and install for all arches 
<ogra> you might want to restrict that :)
<cbx33> heheheh
<flint> ogra, my god the damn thing is 300 lines long and bulletproof you scare me Oliver!!!!
<cbx33> sorry ogra - one last question, where does one apply for edubuntu member status  - for future reference 
<flint> ogra, ok, only 138 lines, but it is still a thing of beauty.  needs a wiki page ma man...
<ogra> cbx33, https://launchpad.net/people/edubuntu-members
<cbx33> and the offer is still there if you guys want youthLUG to test anything out
<cbx33> thanx ogra 
<ogra> ok, we are over time, lets move to #edubuntu
<flint> ogra, really nice.
<freeflying> ogra: how to aplly for edubuntu membership 
<ogra> :)
<ogra> freeflying,  https://launchpad.net/people/edubuntu-members
<freeflying> ogra: seems need approved 
<ogra> freeflying, sure 
<ogra> its the same as ubuntumembers
<cbx33> of course freeflying 
<ogra> i.e. you have to go through the full newmember process for it 
<freeflying> come to the CC for it ?
* bimberi dares ogra to set it as an Open team :P
<ogra> freeflying, nope
<ogra> i'll mail edubuntu-devel about the proicess next week or on the weekend (after beta)
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: Xubuntu | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 20 Apr 20:00 UTC: Dapper Development Status | 25 Apr 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 26 Apr 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 26 Apr 13:30 UTC: Xubuntu
<janimo> hi, sorry I thought it was Tuesday
<nomed> eheh
<janimo> do we have an agenda?
<janimo> nomed, thanks for the poke :)
<nomed> janimo: not really
<janimo> hmm, let's improvise again then
<nomed> janimo: this are some notes
<nomed> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DanieleFavara/DapperXubuntuEspresso
<janimo> the main topic now is testing BETA candidate CDs
<janimo> nomed, hmm we have nautilus and metacity stuff on the CD??
<janimo> sneaky
<nomed> janimo: it should be fixed now
<janimo> oh on the liveCD, that;s fin
<nomed> it was python-gnome2-extras
<janimo> fixed? did COlin drop that?
<nomed> called by espresso gtk ui
<nomed> Kamion: told me yes
<janimo> ok, anyway since it is on the live it's not such a big problem
<nomed> as the function that imports gtkmozembed is commented ...
<janimo> with gconf we have to live in the install as sevaral packages use it
<janimo> aha I see
<janimo> cool
<janimo> then we'll have an even smalled liveCD :)
<janimo> the small fonts I did not see
<janimo> I wil be testing more today
<nomed> janimo: it's strange that
<nomed> if i use dpi 96 in firefox they are really small
<nomed> for me at least
<nomed> if i use system default
<nomed> they are bigger
<Kamion> nomed: not uploaded yet, but will be today
<nomed> even if xinitrc sets them to 96
<nomed> Kamion: yep 
<nomed> janimo: it's possible then xarchiver 0.4 will not be ready for dapper
<nomed> that means we have to add patches 
<janimo> nomed, I assumed so. I'll try to stabilize 0.3.1 . Oh well
<nomed> the devel already sent me the ones that are needed
<janimo> the thunar plugin is too nice to miss
<janimo> nomed, why can they not release 0.3.2 themselves
<nomed> janimo: i don't really know
<janimo> now they have svn there's no excuse for sending patches :)
<janimo> nomed, yes I know you don't know, sorry :)
<nomed> thay are considering 0.4 as next release
<nomed> just that
<nomed> :/
<janimo> I would have preferred they started learning gtk after dapper releases ;)
<janimo> nomed, the startpage problem is expected, we'll mention it in the release notes
<janimo> did you chose en_GB locale right?
<nomed> janimo: yes
<janimo> ok, we should gather the known problems on a wiki page and point to it from the announcement
<nomed> janimo: what's nice is that he told me xarchiver now is really faster ..
<janimo> so they know we are on them
<janimo> nomed, that's nice
<janimo> although I am not sure how often one deals with 60K files in one archive
<janimo> ;)
<nomed> eheheh
<janimo> if it's faster because they cleaned up and structured the code better great
<janimo> if it's faster because they started optimizing while still having unsolved bugs, less great . but it's their project :)
<nomed> ehehe .. i guess it's both of them
<nomed> better support for same archives .. but still issues on others
<janimo> if we cover tar.gz, bz2 ans zip I say that's good enough
<janimo> iso images support is not that necessary
<janimo> or arj for that matter
<nomed> janimo: these should be already supported 
<nomed> janimo: i do not think there is that much to say
<janimo> right
<janimo> we should just test the current ISOs a lot
<nomed> maybe just to define a deadline for that color scheme stuff ?
<janimo> which I'll do as soon as rsycn finishes
<janimo> nomed, yes that too
<janimo> although I hoped that afer trying beta we will see what users think of the current artwork
<janimo> but I still find it hard to choose between those proposals since it's not only the color theme that is different
<nomed> i'm not subscribed to #ubuntu-art .. it would be nice if someone (that is) could send a mail 
<janimo> I am not either :)
<janimo> but that may become more extravagant proposals when all we need now is converging on what we have
<janimo> I'll set a deadline for next monday then.
<janimo> and tell the list
<nomed> better yes :)
<nomed> that seems to be what we have :)
<nomed> janimo: if you decided to include OOo there is a known issue 
<janimo> nomed, which?
<janimo> it's on the install CD currently
<nomed> <Harti> i changed from "ooffice -calc %U" to "oocalc %U" and then its fine
<janimo> but I have yet to try it
<janimo> hmm, packages missing?
<nomed> i do not have OOo so i don't know ..
<nomed> janimo: well more a desktop files issue
<janimo> there are a few transitional packages that need to be added probably
<janimo> nomed, thanks I'll look into it
<nomed> Exec: entries
<janimo> aha
<janimo> I don't have an ooffice command
<janimo> I wonder what installs it in the menu
<janimo> actually I do
<janimo> misspelled it
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: Xubuntu | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 20 Apr 20:00 UTC: Dapper Development Status | 25 Apr 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 26 Apr 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 26 Apr 13:30 UTC: Xubuntu | 27 Apr 02:00 UTC: Dapper Development Status
<nomed> janimo: i do not see anywere "minimal system requirements" for xubuntu
<nomed> that's something users ask often ...
<janimo> nomed, we don;t know what they are :)
<janimo> I ran it (sluggishly) on 64M 600MHz
<janimo> obviously the memory is that matters more
<nomed> we should figure it out i guess :)
<janimo> right, hopefully by tomorrow, after the CDs are installed
<nomed> that's what (possible) new users usually ask on #xubuntu
<strapal> without libjpeg-progs, i can,t rotate my images in gqview - why isnt this package on the CD?
<janimo> strapal, a bug most likely
<janimo> strapal, I'll add it to the desktop, thanks. it's in main so it's ok
<strapal> aha, thx
<janimo> strapal: ok, should be in next xubuntu-desktop, but not likely for beta
<janimo> ok, anything else?
<lapo> hi
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 20 Apr 20:00 UTC: Dapper Development Status | 25 Apr 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 26 Apr 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 26 Apr 13:30 UTC: Xubuntu | 27 Apr 02:00 UTC: Dapper Development Status | 27 Apr 22:00 UTC: Kubuntu
#ubuntu-meeting 2006-04-25
<cbx33> @schedule
<Ubugtu> schedule Retrieve the date/time of scheduled meetings in a specific timezone
<cbx33> @schedule GMT
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Etc/GMT: 20 Apr 20:00: Dapper Development Status | 25 Apr 20:00: Technical Board | 26 Apr 12:00: Edubuntu | 26 Apr 13:30: Xubuntu | 27 Apr 02:00: Dapper Development Status | 27 Apr 22:00: Kubuntu
<watermelon> @schedule manila
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Asia/Manila: 21 Apr 04:00: Dapper Development Status | 26 Apr 04:00: Technical Board | 26 Apr 20:00: Edubuntu | 26 Apr 21:30: Xubuntu | 27 Apr 10:00: Dapper Development Status | 28 Apr 06:00: Kubuntu
<sivang> @schedule Israel
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Israel: 20 Apr 23:00: Dapper Development Status | 25 Apr 23:00: Technical Board | 26 Apr 15:00: Edubuntu | 26 Apr 16:30: Xubuntu | 27 Apr 05:00: Dapper Development Status | 28 Apr 01:00: Kubuntu
<freeflying> @schedule Shanghai
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Asia/Shanghai: 21 Apr 04:00: Dapper Development Status | 26 Apr 04:00: Technical Board | 26 Apr 20:00: Edubuntu | 26 Apr 21:30: Xubuntu | 27 Apr 10:00: Dapper Development Status | 28 Apr 06:00: Kubuntu
<leetcharmer> hihi all :D
<leetcharmer> umm, is Beta released now? :D
<Mithrandir> not yet
<Kamion> you'll get an announcement when it's released.
<leetcharmer> is today the day though?
<Kamion> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/DapperReleaseSchedule
<jsgotangco> please wait for the email
<leetcharmer> is there an e-mail list? :D
<jsgotangco> you can subscribe to https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-announce
<Kamion> ubuntu-announce
<Kamion> beta release announcement will go to -announce rather than -devel-announce, I expect
<leetcharmer> okies, thx :D
<Kamion> also, this is a channel for team meetings. Please use #ubuntu for questions.
<leetcharmer> okies :D
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:mdz] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 27 Apr 20:00 UTC: Development team meeting  | 25 Apr 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 26 Apr 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 26 Apr 13:30 UTC: Xubuntu | 27 Apr 02:00 UTC: Dapper Development Status | 27 Apr 22:00 UTC: Kubuntu
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 20 Apr 20:00 UTC: Dapper Development Status | 25 Apr 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 26 Apr 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 26 Apr 13:30 UTC: Xubuntu | 27 Apr 02:00 UTC: Dapper Development Status | 27 Apr 22:00 UTC: Kubuntu
<Klaidas> @schedule GMT+2
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Etc/GMT+2: 20 Apr 18:00: Dapper Development Status | 25 Apr 18:00: Technical Board | 26 Apr 10:00: Edubuntu | 26 Apr 11:30: Xubuntu | 27 Apr 00:00: Dapper Development Status | 27 Apr 20:00: Kubuntu
<rikai> @schedule GMT-5
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Etc/GMT-5: 21 Apr 01:00: Dapper Development Status | 26 Apr 01:00: Technical Board | 26 Apr 17:00: Edubuntu | 26 Apr 18:30: Xubuntu | 27 Apr 07:00: Dapper Development Status | 28 Apr 03:00: Kubuntu
<Seveas> Klaidas, rikai the GMT+/GMT- is misleading, please use a named timezone
<rikai> Seveas: alright, thanks.
<Klaidas> thanks
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: Dapper Development Status | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 25 Apr 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 26 Apr 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 26 Apr 13:30 UTC: Xubuntu | 27 Apr 02:00 UTC: Dapper Development Status | 27 Apr 22:00 UTC: Kubuntu
<v0xel> @schedule GMT+1
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Etc/GMT+1: Current meeting: Dapper Development Status | 25 Apr 19:00: Technical Board | 26 Apr 11:00: Edubuntu | 26 Apr 12:30: Xubuntu | 27 Apr 01:00: Dapper Development Status | 27 Apr 21:00: Kubuntu
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 25 Apr 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 26 Apr 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 26 Apr 13:30 UTC: Xubuntu | 27 Apr 02:00 UTC: Dapper Development Status | 27 Apr 22:00 UTC: Kubuntu
<lucasvo> @schedule GMT+2
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Etc/GMT+2: 25 Apr 18:00: Technical Board | 26 Apr 10:00: Edubuntu | 26 Apr 11:30: Xubuntu | 27 Apr 00:00: Dapper Development Status | 27 Apr 20:00: Kubuntu
<sivang> hmm , wasnt there an development status meeting?
<Riddell> it got cancelled
<sivang> how come?
<Riddell> everyone knows what everyone else has been doing.  beta testing
<Seveas> @reload webcal
<Seveas> no more GMT+X
<sivang> Riddell: I see
<sivang> Riddell: okay
#ubuntu-meeting 2006-04-26
<tonyyarusso> @schedule toronto
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Toronto: 25 Apr 16:00: Technical Board | 26 Apr 08:00: Edubuntu | 26 Apr 09:30: Xubuntu | 26 Apr 22:00: Dapper Development Status | 27 Apr 18:00: Kubuntu
<tonyyarusso> Anyone know what happened with rescheduling the second half of the CC meeting from Tuesday?
<pizux> looking for the login in gdm in xubuntu live cd beta 6 ?
<pizux> don't find it 
#ubuntu-meeting 2006-04-28
<Ju> Hi all !
<cyphase> why can't libdvdcss be put into restricted or multiverse?
<cyphase> like the gstreamer mp3 plugin
#ubuntu-meeting 2006-04-29
<Jwarrier> type /join #comeforagoodtime
<Kagou> exit
<Kagou> oups :D
#ubuntu-meeting 2006-04-30
<freeflying> @schedule Shanghai
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Asia/Shanghai: 26 Apr 04:00: Technical Board | 26 Apr 20:00: Edubuntu | 26 Apr 21:30: Xubuntu | 27 Apr 10:00: Dapper Development Status | 28 Apr 06:00: Kubuntu
<lucasvo> @schedule gmt+1
<lucasvo> @schedule GMT+2
<lucasvo> Ubugtu is dead?
<lucasvo> @schedule
<Ubugtu> schedule Retrieve the date/time of scheduled meetings in a specific timezone
<lucasvo> @schedule GMT+2
<lucasvo> @schedule UTC+2
<lucasvo> @schedule Berlin
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Berlin: 25 Apr 22:00: Technical Board | 26 Apr 14:00: Edubuntu | 26 Apr 15:30: Xubuntu | 27 Apr 04:00: Dapper Development Status | 28 Apr 00:00: Kubuntu
<ubuntu_lt> @schedule Vilnius
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Vilnius: 25 Apr 23:00: Technical Board | 26 Apr 15:00: Edubuntu | 26 Apr 16:30: Xubuntu | 27 Apr 05:00: Dapper Development Status | 28 Apr 01:00: Kubuntu
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 25 Apr 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 26 Apr 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 26 Apr 13:30 UTC: Xubuntu | 27 Apr 20:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 27 Apr 22:00 UTC: Kubuntu | 03 May 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu
<zul> meeting is half hour isnt it?
<mjg59> Yup
<simira> which?
<zul> TB
<simira> tech
<simira> when's the next cc?
<zul> next week i think
<Seveas> not yet set
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: Technical Board | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 26 Apr 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 26 Apr 13:30 UTC: Xubuntu | 27 Apr 20:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 27 Apr 22:00 UTC: Kubuntu | 03 May 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu
<ogra> hmm the agenda is emty again
<ogra> *empty
<janimo> candidates
<ogra> i dont see a valid main candidate
<dholbach> mdz, mjg59, Keybuk: gloubigoula (Gauvain) asked me to tell you that he'd be 30 minutes late
<ogra> and the universe candidates didnt change much either
<dholbach> wasabi?
<Keybuk> dholbach: given the agenda, he's likely to miss the meeting
<dholbach> I'm very sorry that it has to happen. He's a real asset for Universe.
<mdz> Keybuk: we have sfllaw as well
<Keybuk> mdz: we do, how?
<janimo> seconded, gloububoulga is very good
<janimo> very helpful in xubuntu land
<Keybuk> mdz: HE ISN'T ON MY LIST :p
<mdz> Keybuk: well, he can speak for himself, but I presume he'd like to be able to upload
<Keybuk> sfllaw: add yourself to the list <g>
<mdz> sfllaw: https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-core-dev
<sfllaw> So many lists to add myself to.
<ogra> membership ? 
<sfllaw> I didn't even know I was on the Core Development Team until five seconds ago.
<sfllaw> Ta da!
<ogra> (will that be sorted afterwards ?)
<mdz> sfllaw: you aren't yet
<sfllaw> Well there we go.
<mdz> sfllaw: the basic process for gaining upload privileges in Ubuntu is to apply for membership in the appropriate team and turn up at a meeting (like this one) to be considered
<Keybuk> random thought, why doesn't irc.ubuntu.com point to freenode?
<mdz> sfllaw: typically you bring along an existing member who has worked with you and can speak on your behalf
<ogra> mdz, couldnt we just make employees automatically members ? 
<ogra> (i think its worth a policy change)
<ogra> i mean signed contract yadda yadda ...
<mdz> ogra: that strikes me as inappropriate, and if I'm not mistaken, sabdfl has explicitly spoken against it
<Keybuk> Let's Get It Started!
<ogra> ok
<mdz> sfllaw: presumably jbailey would advocate you; is he available by any chance?
<sfllaw> I'm under the impression that he's "being a booth babe".
<sfllaw> But let me look.
<sfllaw> He doesn't seem to be online.
<sfllaw> I'm afraid that I can't say whether jbailey would absolutely vouch for me.
<sfllaw> But I'm presuming he would.
<mdz> I'll try his mobile
<dholbach> I can try to say some bits: I was in touch with sfllaw around 2 years ago, when I used wvstreams for a project - at that time I was impressed on how fast he reacted, analyzed the problem I had and got the fix either into Debian or fixed it directly upstream. That's what I can say about his Debian / packaging skills.
<dholbach> sfllaw: for how long have you been a Debian maintainer now?
<mdz> jbailey was just walking onto an airplane, he won't be able to make it
<ogra> dholbach, thats already 2 years ago ? woah
<Keybuk> mdz: if it crashes, we're blaming you
* ogra remembers dholbach's praises for wvstreams upstream bck then
<ogra> *back
<dholbach> Keybuk: don't make that kind of jokes shortly before release :)
<sivang> was ubuntu existing then? :)
* sivang lost track of time already.
<ogra> sivang, dholbach and i met in #ubuntu at that time
<ogra> so it existed, yes
<dholbach> or maybe it was even longer ago
<sivang> ogra: ah, so we already met each other probably 
<mdz> sfllaw: have you wandered off?
<sfllaw> mdz: Nope.
<sfllaw> dholbach: I've been looking...
<dholbach> ah... ok :-)
<mdz> sfllaw: it's probably best if we wait until the next meeting for this, when you have some time to prepare
<sfllaw> Fair enough.
<mdz> dholbach: heard from gloubigoula?
<sfllaw> dholbach: January 2000 was when I started.
<dholbach> mdz: yeah, as I said: he'll be 30m late, so ~20m he should be here
<mdz> is there any other business?
<dholbach> the only other applicant (that really meant it) was afaik wasabi
<ogra> lifeless isnt around by chance ? 
<mjg59> Daf is around if we want to do his motu?
<wasabi> I was an applicabt?
<wasabi> applicant? I was wondering why you were yelling at me.
<dholbach> wasabi: for ubuntu-dev?
<wasabi> Already in.
<dholbach> wasabi: I tried to highlight on all your nicks :-)
<dholbach> wasabi: Oh sorry, I must have missed that. I just rememberd you signed up with the team.
<wasabi> Yeah, I was "missed" in the LP migration somehow, and was too busy to notice.
<mdz> wasabi: who took care of that for you?
<wasabi> keybuk
<ogra> daf sounds like a good start ...
<mdz> ogra: daf isn't here
<mjg59> mdz: Shall I grab daf?
<mjg59> (He's physically here)
<mdz> this is possibly the most chaotic tech board meeting yet ;-)
<mdz> mjg59: his choice
<ogra> heh
<mjg59> 30 seconds
<mjg59> There we go
<wasabi> Hmm. I think I was in ubuntu-core-dev, too.
<wasabi> But I haven't had to work on my packages in main in a long while.
<ogra> hey daf
* daf waves
<dholbach> hello daf!
<Keybuk> wasabi: only found your ubuntu-dev meeting
<wasabi> k. No biggy.
<wasabi> I'm done with Java stuff anyways.
<mdz> wasabi,Keybuk: the archive keyring was authoritative at the time
<mdz> and that's what I worked from when migrating to LP
<mdz> daf: welcome
<mdz> daf: care to tell us a bit about your involvement with ubuntu and plans for future involvement?
* sivang hugs daf 
<daf> mostly been involved with Rosetta stuff
<daf> occasional patches
* mvo waves to daf
<daf> my impetus for upload privileges is to be able to upload stuff to Ubuntu at the same time as I upload to Debian
<mdz> daf: you're a Debian developer as well, yes?
<daf> aye
<mdz> daf: which packages do you maintain there?
<daf> er
<daf> http://qa.debian.org/developer.php?login=Dafydd+Harries&comaint=yes
<daf> various things
<daf> plus I've recently joined the GNOME team
<mdz> daf: have you done any Ubuntu uploads through an existing developer?
<daf> no, don't think so
<dholbach> daf: didn't I uploaded a patch and new gnome-gpg or something?
<dholbach> daf: or you worked on it and I synced it?
<daf> that was a sync
<dholbach> Ok.
<raphink> hi there
<raphink> hi Gloubi|AFK
<raphink> and hi Riddell :)
<Gloubi|AFK> hi
<dholbach> then we investigated a bit in the gossip package
<raphink> tb is @ 22UTC right ?
<mdz> raphink: it's at 20UTC as always, and it's in progress right now
<raphink> ouch sorry mdz :(
* raphink keeps quiet
<daf> dholbach: indeed
<mdz> dholbach: care to comment on your experience working with daf?
<dholbach> mdz: he was very easy to work with, we discussed some gossip bugs and had a look on a new gnome-gpg version and he was always easy to work with.
<dholbach> He answered quickly and things were done in no time. I was happy. :-)
<mdz> Keybuk: any questions?
<Keybuk> mdz: no questions
<mdz> ok
<mdz> votes
<mjg59> +1 on the basis that I can hit him in person if he does anything wrong
<ogra> heh
<Keybuk> +1 from me
<dholbach> hahaha
<mdz> +1 from me based on Debian experience and dholbach's advocacy
<mdz> daf: done and done
<mdz> daf: welcome
* dholbach congratulates daf!
<daf> thank you
<dholbach> Excellent news! :-)
<raphink> :)
<ogra> welcome daf
<mdz> Gloubiboulga: I believe you're next?
* Gloubiboulga is Gauvain Pocentek
<Riddell> daf: well done
<mjg59> Gloubiboulga: So, what do you want to do in Ubuntu?
<Gloubiboulga> I guess I'm the next one mdke 
<Gloubiboulga> mjg59, my work has been centered on Xubuntu for a month
* mdke passes it onto mdz
<janimo> s/work/great work/
<Gloubiboulga> I'd like to keep working on this, even if Xfce is in main now:)
<mdz> janimo: have you been uploading his packages?
<janimo> mdz, yes
<janimo> all his xfce work
<mdz> janimo: and reviewing them before upload, presumably. ;-)  what is your assessment of his work?
<janimo> mdz, very nice work.
<janimo> thorough
<mdz> Gloubiboulga: presumably you will continue to work through janimo for Xubuntu packages for now; is there any other area where you would like to work as a MOTU?
* raphink has reviewed Gloubiboulga's work on REVU since he began contributing and is also very happy with the quality of his work
<Gloubiboulga> mdz, not really a particular aera
<janimo> mdz, there are still some bits left in ubinverse for xubuntu
<janimo> he has some new uploads from xfce upstream in the queu
<janimo> e
<Gloubiboulga> I'm really interesting in helping new packagers
<Gloubiboulga> I've comment some packages on REVU, it's an important part of the MOTU work imo
<Gloubiboulga> *commented
<ogra> yes, thats true ... 
<raphink> yes, I have advocated comments on REVU for Gloubiboulga as he sent them to me
<ogra> Gloubiboulga is very helpful to people in -motu
<raphink> most of good interest
<raphink> Gloubiboulga: have you gotten in touch with laserjock to help with packaging guide?
<dholbach> Yeah, I personally liked how he steppd up in ubuntu-bugs as well, took care of patches for issues in universe-bugs, etc
<dholbach> I'm pleased with his work there
<mdz> ok
<Gloubiboulga> raphink, nop, I read his guide, discussed a few thing with him, that's it
<mdz> Keybuk,mjg59: any questions for Gloubiboulga?
<Keybuk> nope, no questions from me
<mjg59> Gloubiboulga: What are your aims for xfce?
<Gloubiboulga> mjg59, Xfce itself is fine, but Xubuntu can provide a much more usable desktop
<Gloubiboulga> It's easily installable, comes on an iso
<Gloubiboulga> everything is done to have a clean, stable distro using this desktop
<mdz> Gloubiboulga: is there anything in particular that you feel is missing which you would like to work on adding?
<janimo> Gloubiboulga has been in touch with xfce panel plugin writers, about them being in time for dapper
<Gloubiboulga> mdz, yes, some tools are missing, like keyboard, printer manament
<lucasvo> imho notebook support in xubuntu is poor
<Gloubiboulga> managment*
<Gloubiboulga> lucasvo, true
<janimo> lucasvo: true. the only thing there is susp/hib form logout menu
<lucasvo> janimo: exactly
<lucasvo> no battery status etc.
<janimo> lucasvo: there's a battrey plugin in main since yesterday
<mdz> Gloubiboulga: are there good solutions for keyboard and printer functionality which exist but are not in Xubuntu yet?
<Gloubiboulga> mdz, Xfce only cannot satisfy a desktop user imo
<janimo> was in universe
<lucasvo> janimo: ah, ok
<janimo> Gloubiboulga actually works on the xkb plugin now, but for some reason not mentioningit
<Gloubiboulga> mdz, you can't easily set up different keuboard layouts for exemple
<Gloubiboulga> mdz, janimo just told it, I'm working on the xkb plugin to solve this
<Gloubiboulga> editing xorg.conf is not an easy for most users :)
<Gloubiboulga> esay thing even
<mdz> ok
<mdz> Keybuk,mjg59: votes?
<Keybuk> +1 from me, good to get more xfce work
<mdz> +1 for Gloubiboulga based on several MOTU recommendations and good work demonstrated with janimo
<mdz> did we lose mjg59?
<mdz> Gloubiboulga: at any rate you have a majority, congratulations and welcome
<janimo> Gloubiboulga: congrats :)
<dholbach> congratulations Gloubiboulga! welcome to the team!
<Gloubiboulga> thanks :)
<ogra> congrats Gloubiboulga 
<raphink> welcome Gloubiboulga :)
<raphink> a fait plaisir de t'avoir comme dev :)
<mdz> I believe that's the end of the agenda?
<Gloubiboulga> merci raphink ;)
<ogra> yep
<Gloubiboulga> janimo, dholbach, ogra thanks a lot :)
<dholbach> thanks everybody
<mdke> mdz, i have a quick question, if you have time. I've written it already so it should be fast.
<dholbach> Gloubiboulga: anytime - you deserved the praise
<mdz> mdke: shoot
<mdke> I've vaguely followed the meeting since I joined the channel, is it correct that ubuntu membership is no longer required for becoming a developer (some of the candidates considered are not members, and some of the core-dev team don't appear to be either)? If so, I think we should update the website: it gives a slightly misleading account of the community governance process. Or alternatively, the ubuntu-members LP group may be incomplete.
<ogra> mdke, its still required
<mdke> so the latter?
<mdz> mdke: they're somewhat disconnected at the moment; people generally go through the processes separately
<mjg59> Whoops, sorry about that
<mdz> indeed, they're handled by different groups
<mdke> mdz, does it matter which goes first?
<mjg59> But I agree
<mdz> mdke: for my part, I don't mind which goes first, but they should happen close together
<mdz> folks who are in ubuntu-dev but not members should go through the membership process
<mdke> ok, the website is definitely misleading then
<raphink> indeed
<mdz> what we wanted to avoid was folks having to wait 3 weeks or more, and attend adjacent meetings, to go through the process
<mdz> this is probably something to be discussed at CC next week
<mdke> ok fine
<mdz> logically, it would make sense for membership to be a prerequisite, but we've been somewhat flexible for practical reasons
<mdz> mdke: would you put it on the CC agenda?  I'll try to be there to discuss
<mdke> mdz, be happy to.
<mdke> it's two problems I suppose
<lifeless> Keybuk: am I too late?
<mdz> lifeless: well hello, we were just about to close up
<Keybuk> I think we can just squeeze him in
<lifeless> thank you
<mdz> lifeless: care to introduce yourself?
<lifeless> Hi, I'm lifeless
<sivang> he has a french dictionary named after him :)
<lifeless> I'm here hoping to get upload rights to universe as a MOTU
<ogra> yay
<ogra> lifeless, 
<lifeless> indeed, the Robert-Collins dictionary
<ogra> often missed here
<lifeless> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RobertCollins describes most of the Ubuntu focused things I get up to
<mdz> lifeless: you maintain a few packages in Debian as well, yes?
<mdz> ah, it's on your wiki page
<lifeless> yup, bicyclerepair, fl-cow, opensync, testresources
<mdz> lifeless: who sponsors the bzr uploads to ubuntu? jbailey?
<Mithrandir> lifeless: I don't think Ubuntu runs well on S/360s.  I don't know about S/390s, though..
<mdz> lifeless: do you do most of the packaging work for the uploads which go directly to ubuntu?
<lifeless> mdz: yes. bzr is currently packaged by jbailey himself
<mdz> lifeless: are you a Debian developer, or does someone sponsor your uploads there?
<lifeless> mdz: I'm a DD, though still a relatively new one
<sivang> lifeless: what about i5/OS ? ;-)
<mdz> (I asked because your Maintainer fields don't have a debian.org address)
<lifeless> I tend to get someone to eyeball my uploads if I'm working in a new area of packaging I'm not familiar with
<lifeless> mdz: ah.
<Keybuk> mdz: that's not so unusual?  When I was a DD, I never used my debian.org address
<mdz> Keybuk: not everyone does, but when they don't, it isn't immediately obvious whether they're a DD or not
<lifeless> this is true. I guess I think of myself as 'me' and as being a DD as one facet.
<mdz> and I'm far too lazy to go beyond apt-cache show to confirm ;-)
<lifeless> its the same with canonical work, I usually use my home address except in rare circumstances
<Keybuk> lifeless: so, what makes you want to join the MOTU?
<Keybuk> what about Ubuntu interests and excites you
<Keybuk> and what would you like to change and make better?
<lifeless> so
<lifeless> I want to join MOTU to be able to complete the loop when I'm helping out in #ubuntu-motu
<lifeless> for instance, azeem and I want to make the mobile syncing stuff in ubuntu really rock for dapper +1
<lifeless> which is why we are working on all the opensync, discussing issues with upstream
<lifeless> and so on.
<mdz> lifeless: what are the issues there? I'm interested
<lifeless> mdz: multisync is essentially abandoned upstream, and the 'new' codebase 'opensync' is very unstable
<mdz> I want to be able to sync contacts between my phone and evolution, in particular
<mdz> does opensync have that sort of use case as a target?
<lifeless> we've hit a number of issues in packaging - the test suite is location fragile
<lifeless> oh yes, thats exactly what opensync is about, multisync 0.8x may well do it already
<mdz> cool, maybe I'll find time to play with it one of these days
<Keybuk> would opensync also let me sync the evolution address book on my laptop with that on my desktop?
<lifeless> but the multisync 0.8 ui is (at best) crackful - the 0.9 ui based on opensync should be much much better once it all comes together
<mjg59> Keybuk: Yes
<lifeless> Keybuk: yes
<lifeless> Keybuk: syncml + evo on the desktop, evo + syncml on the laptop
<mjg59> Synchronisation is something we've really been missing out on
<mdz> any further questions?
<mdz> votes
<lifeless> answering what about ubuntu interests and excites me is rather hard - I find *everything* fascinating and interesting--- its just a matter of triaging down to the things I have time to actually look at
<mjg59> +1 based on past record and intention to work on important stuff
<mdz> +1 based on Debian history, sanity of existing packages, etc.
<Keybuk> +1
<Keybuk> even though he's at least partly responsible for Arch
<Keybuk> :)
<mdz> lifeless: congrats
<lifeless> I'm also 'at least partly responsible' for the solution!
<lifeless> mdz: thank you
<lifeless> thank you mjg59 and Keybuk too
<mdz> any other business before workrave strangles me?
<mdke> mdz, I've added the agenda item for the CC
<mdz> mdke: thanks
<ogra> yay lifeless 
<ogra> finally :)
<mdz> not hearing any other business, adjourned
<mdz> thanks all
<ogra> thanks mdz 
<raphink> congrats lifeless
<Tonio_> seems I'm a bit late this time ^^
<raphink> huhu
#ubuntu-meeting 2007-04-23
<Adri2000> @schedule paris
<ubotu> Schedule for Europe/Paris: 24 Apr 22:00: Technical Board | 25 Apr 22:00: Edubuntu | 26 Apr 22:00: MOTU | 26 Apr 23:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 01 May 17:00: Kernel Team | 01 May 20:00: Mozilla Team
<sid> @schedule New_York
<ubotu> Schedule for America/New_York: 24 Apr 16:00: Technical Board | 25 Apr 16:00: Edubuntu | 26 Apr 16:00: MOTU | 26 Apr 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 01 May 11:00: Kernel Team | 01 May 14:00: Mozilla Team
<NafiProjo> hello
<kkubasik> @next
<kkubasik> @schedule next
<kkubasik> @schedule New_York
<ubotu> Schedule for America/New_York: 24 Apr 16:00: Technical Board | 25 Apr 16:00: Edubuntu | 26 Apr 16:00: MOTU | 26 Apr 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 01 May 11:00: Kernel Team | 01 May 14:00: Mozilla Team
<jsgotangco> what the hell
<jsgotangco> @schedule Manila
<ubotu> Schedule for Asia/Manila: 25 Apr 04:00: Technical Board | 26 Apr 04:00: Edubuntu | 27 Apr 04:00: MOTU | 27 Apr 05:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 01 May 23:00: Kernel Team | 02 May 02:00: Mozilla Team
<ranf> @schedule
<ubotu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: 24 Apr 20:00: Technical Board | 25 Apr 20:00: Edubuntu | 26 Apr 20:00: MOTU | 26 Apr 21:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 01 May 15:00: Kernel Team | 01 May 18:00: Mozilla Team
#ubuntu-meeting 2007-04-29
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-meeting.log
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Current meeting: Local Teams | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 01 May 15:00 UTC: Kernel Team | 01 May 18:00 UTC: Mozilla Team | 02 May 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 02 May 20:00 UTC: Xubuntu Developers | 03 May 16:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team
<elkbuntu> Ok people
<elkbuntu> who do we have here for the LoCo Teams meeting?
<pochu> yo
* markvandenborre will be here, but might have to go during the meeting a few times
<elkbuntu> sure, no prob
<elkbuntu> who else?
<elkbuntu> i'll give it 5 before we start so people have a chance to turn up
* rafael_carreras will be here, but I have not much to say, I think
<elkbuntu> ok, show of hands for the LoCo Teams Meeting
<jono> yo
<pochu> me
<elkbuntu> hey jono, just baout to start
<pochu> hey jono
<jono> hey
<elkbuntu> Ok, so we're here to discuss what we want to be discussed about LoCos at the UDS next week
<elkbuntu> Based on the feedback we got through https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoReview i have registered 3 specs, which I hope will go to the summit. They're at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoTeamsUDSSevillaSpecs
<elkbuntu> take a moment to read those, and then feel free to ask/comment
<elkbuntu> ok, anyone?
<pochu> elkbuntu: what about name policy?
<elkbuntu> pochu, that comes under 'definition'
<pochu> yeah :)
<jono> dammit, I have to run, back soon
<amachu> hi
<Med-Wei|Sara> Hi.
<elkbuntu> for those just joining for the meeting:
<elkbuntu> <elkbuntu> Based on the feedback we got through https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoReview i have registered 3 specs, which I hope will go to the summit. They're at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoTeamsUDSSevillaSpecs
<elkbuntu> <elkbuntu> take a moment to read those, and then feel free to ask/comment
<markvandenborre> elkbuntu, like, comment here, or add something to the wiki pages? what would you prefer us to do?
<amachu> elkbuntu: i would like to add
<elkbuntu> markvandenborre, both
<elkbuntu> what is your comment?
<amachu> the co-ordination we have with Sri Lankan Tamils
<markvandenborre> resources: banners and stuff
<markvandenborre> is just one example
<amachu> also be added to the positive things happening around....
<Belutz> hi all i'm from Indonesian LoCo
<markvandenborre> hi
<amachu> I will add it now..
<elkbuntu> markvandenborre, while i feel that comes under: * Resource availability - What is and is not available to teams. This has changed recently and some are confused.
<elkbuntu> feel free to add it to the page
<markvandenborre> it falls under that item, of course
<markvandenborre> it's mostly about stuff that has to be sourced new and will be of no use except for to promote ubuntu
<elkbuntu> markvandenborre, i intentionally avoided strictly defining certain things in the specs, to avoid restricting discussion
<elkbuntu> ok, amachu. what about coordination?
<amachu> elkbuntu: its on translation efforts
<elkbuntu> amachu, explain further please
<amachu> elkbuntu: tamil is language spoken both in TamilNadu, India & SriLanka
<amachu> so we decided to share common things among us
<amachu> we approched the Tamil speaking members of SriLankan team
<elkbuntu> amachu, and what is the concern? there should be a translation team to cover the language, but the locos should still be seperate identities
<amachu> i think its not needed... if proper co-ordination can be achieved..
<markvandenborre> elkbuntu, you can't separate translation and language entirely
<amachu> LoCo teams can happen to be geography based
<markvandenborre> remember a discussion at UDS Mountain View?
<amachu> russell: can u share about your experience with Bengali Team
<markvandenborre> I was not very awake at the time
<markvandenborre> I think I can explain more clearly now
<elkbuntu> markvandenborre, not entirely, but the translation efforts, while a project of the loco, should not be confined to a loco
<markvandenborre> of course they don't have to
<markvandenborre> the situation for ubuntu-nl.org and ubuntu-be.org
<Ekushey> amachu, our target group are school going kids and university students
<elkbuntu> markvandenborre, that's what im trying to say here. the locos could easily form translation subteams within them, and the culmination of these subteams would form a language team
<amachu> Ekushey: ok..
<markvandenborre> elkbuntu, that's overstructuring things I'm afraid, and not a solution to everything
<Ekushey> amachu, the responce is very good... i get atleast 2 phone calls everyday from ppl who wants to use ubuntu or run into problems
<Med-Wei|Sara> amachu: Does translations have some slighty different between nations?
<markvandenborre> take Belgium and Holland
<amachu> elkbuntu: now, that has to be done in unison with upstream also
<markvandenborre> and the dutch language
<amachu> Med-Wei|Sara: Yes
<amachu> very little though
<elkbuntu> markvandenborre, there doesnt have to be structure, but if structure is needed for the sake of coordination, it should be use
<rafael_carreras> amachu: but significant
<amachu> Ekushey: i too have started getting calls
<markvandenborre> the use of nl in online services is important for reaching a certain critical mass amongst the speakers of the language
<markvandenborre> not only in translations
<elkbuntu> this is why we need to discuss definition
<markvandenborre> which is why ubuntu-be.org did not create a separate forum
<markvandenborre> ok, so that's something for Sevilla then, sorry
<markvandenborre> I just wanted to make sure that the distinction between
<markvandenborre> 1. translation
<markvandenborre> 2. online-only services
<markvandenborre> and 3. really location bound services
<markvandenborre> is made in these discussions
<elkbuntu> markvandenborre, that's why it's proposed for sevilla
<amachu> elkbuntu: on LoCo resources.. It would be nice to have the databases upgraded to latest versions
<amachu> elkbuntu: we do have problems that we could not upgade to latest version of mediawiki due the the server not supporting it
<elkbuntu> amachu, ok, note it on the review page please
<amachu> so, periodic upgration of server is the key point to be noted here
<amachu> elkbuntu: sure
<amachu> any comments on this
<elkbuntu> i'll comment that it's at the sysadmin discretion, and they already get plenty of ribbing for accidental downtime ;)
<amachu> elkbuntu: :-)
<amachu> On LoCo definition,
<amachu> We are indeed a Team representing a State of India
<elkbuntu> amachu, does india have a team to cover all of it?
<amachu> elkbuntu: yes.. we do have Ubuntu-in.. but 1 billion population to toooooooooo big for it to cover
<amachu> ;-)
<elkbuntu> amachu, i am aware, i was just making sure there was complete coverage
<amachu> I have recently noticed budding Andrapradesh Team
<amachu> another neighbouring state of us
<elkbuntu> amachu, do all these indian state teams cooperate like for instance the US state teams do?
<amachu> well, Yes
<amachu> with Ubuntu India team we do
<elkbuntu> cool
<amachu> elkbuntu: andra team is yet to grow and get approved
<amachu> i had recently established contact with them.. no not much of interaction..
<elkbuntu> there's no one firm rule that can be applied to all teams and circumstances, but there are cases where exceptions and additional structure is required. that is what we are hoping to decide, discuss etc at the summit
<lifeless> night all
<elkbuntu> amachu, you're trying, that's enough
<elkbuntu> night lifeless
<amachu> now.. LoCo Resources.. we can have some place in Ubuntu Site, we have can have our special appeals made
<amachu> like request for funding at a global level
<amachu> for LoCo specific projects
<Ekushey> elkbuntu, regarding the "state" teams, i've a question... shouldn't there be a rule on when "state" or divistional teams can be formed? maybe based on population and size of the country?
<elkbuntu> i dont know. that is what needs discussing. resources has afaik never been formally discussed, this is why it is top priority as far as i am concerned
<elkbuntu> Ekushey, indeed. one  of the things that will be discussed
<nixternal> good mornin'!
<elkbuntu> moin nixternal!
<amachu> while LoCo sites are their language specific and the number of hits is low to their site and more to Ubuntu site
<amachu> some link in Ubuntu site where LoCo appeals can be put forth
<amachu> and coming to LoCo Collaboration,
<amachu> we did identified a person as it has been stated in the page for education.. and it was in the mid of the academic year
<amachu> now its summer vacation for schools here, we need to trigger it up
<elkbuntu> yep
<amachu> also the Ubuntu LoCo derivative project
<Ekushey> elkbuntu, oh ok... USA and India are big counties, so they can have divisional teams. But if people from smaller countries start making divisional LoCo teams without consulting with the country team, then it will only lead to grouping.
<markvandenborre> amachu, derivative project is dead
<amachu> markvandenborre: but we need it
<amachu> :-(
<markvandenborre> we need information about creating localised iso's
<markvandenborre> better documentation of that would be a great resource to locoteams
<elkbuntu> Ekushey, indeed. at any point where there's multiple teams per locale, it's best to have a 'coop' group to make sure there's communication. they'd do things sort of like this meeting here, but on a local level
<Ekushey> u r right markvandenborre
<amachu> LoCo derivative project is the foremost resource that we expect..
<markvandenborre> which is why I added it to the "things that don't work" page
<amachu> and we would be much pleased to have one mentor atleast
<Ekushey> elkbuntu, got that, thanks
<amachu> for that
<markvandenborre> what I would like to find out is how to measure our relevance
<markvandenborre> as locoteams
<elkbuntu> ok. as a basic concept as you'd propose for a spec, how would you go about it?
<markvandenborre> towards Canonical, towards press, towards our team members
<markvandenborre> elkbuntu, maybe I can drop something on the wiki about it?
<elkbuntu> markvandenborre, please
<markvandenborre> on a separate spec page?
<markvandenborre> ok
<elkbuntu> mention it on the review page, and bulk it out on a spec page
<markvandenborre> ok
<amachu> elkbuntu: any commnets from you on Ubuntu Derivative Project
<amachu> we had gr8 expectations from that
<markvandenborre> there was no such project, only in name
<amachu> markvandenborre: yes..
<markvandenborre> the Canonical developers I have talked to have stated clearly that they have no interest in creating localised iso's themselves
<elkbuntu> amachu, given derivatives can be for any reason, i think that it probably goes beyond the scope of LoCos
<markvandenborre> but they are willing to help out people who have done their research with questions on how to create iso's
<markvandenborre> elkbuntu, I think amachu has a point here
<markvandenborre> when he stresses the importance of localised cd's
<amachu> elkbuntu: yes..
<elkbuntu> markvandenborre, i agree they are important, however if a project was to exist, it would be for far more than just localisation
<amachu> I feel its not beyond the scope.. but needs extra efforts to be put
<amachu> elkbuntu: exactly
<elkbuntu> and it is beyond my knowledge to comment on how, or by whom they should be done
<amachu> elkbuntu: we dream beyond localisation
<markvandenborre> elkbuntu, the main action point that could be taken is probably
<Med-Wei|Sara> how about apt-on-cd packages isofile?
<amachu> elkbuntu: but the first step alone is localisation
<markvandenborre> to make sure localisation documentation and utilities grow towards something unified and well maintained
<amachu> elkbuntu: like developing applications thats specific to our region
<markvandenborre> hm, that sounds fluffy, sorry
<amachu> elkbuntu: and adding it to that ditro.. and these applications need not have transaltions in all languages
<elkbuntu> amachu, there are already localised versions that have been made by teams already, maybe it is best talking to them?
<Ekushey> localised+customised version of ubuntu is very important... for example, majority of the computer users in bangladesh are using pentium II and III PCs with 128 MB of RAM... installing Ubuntu on these machines can be a scary experinece
<amachu> elkbuntu: yep.. mdke suggested to contact italian team
<amachu> elkbuntu: i will do that
<elkbuntu> amachu, then that is a good starting point
<amachu> elkbuntu: ok
<Ekushey> elkbuntu, i'm not clear abt the ubuntu trademark pocily abt the customised/localised versions
<markvandenborre> read it, it's really clear
<elkbuntu> Ekushey, that you need to talk to canonical about. IANAL
<amachu> i had added that to community council agenda, when i too felt its dying
<amachu> hope we make it there to put forth our points
<Ekushey> on the last CC meeting, there was some discussion abt it... but sadly i couldn't follow the entire conversion
<pleia2> Ekushey: have you read: http://www.ubuntu.com/aboutus/trademarkpolicy ?
<Ekushey> pleia2 yes i've read it
<pleia2> the same is true for loco teams
<amachu> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda/CommunityCouncilAgenda
<amachu> its happening on May 16
<Ekushey> pleia2, i still have some confusions, so i'll add it to the next meeting agenda
<amachu> markvandenborre: how about your comments on raising it there?
<amachu> markvandenborre: can we hope to bring life ?
<elkbuntu> Ekushey, trademarks@canonical.com can be asked any trademark questions you might have
<markvandenborre> amachu, what are you talking about?
<Med-Wei|Sara> The term free can be two definitions, freedom and gratis. There is a problem that Chinese doesn't have a word covering those. I got the problem when I translate some introdution documents.
<markvandenborre> about documentation for creating derivatives?
<amachu> markvandenborre: about raising the derivative issue to CC
<markvandenborre> amachu, I don't see why it should be raised at the CC
<markvandenborre> the job needs to be done
<Ekushey> elkbuntu, ok thanks
<amachu> markvandenborre: ok
<markvandenborre> centralising, creating and updating localisation documentation is what needs to be done imho
<markvandenborre> mostly, creating awareness about that
<amachu> markvandenborre: ok
<markvandenborre> you don't have to agree, but I don't see any other way
<amachu> and in a Longer perpective.. we need to have professionals to promote Ubuntu in LoCo regions
<amachu> since LoCo is more of voluntary nature
<amachu> and if Bug #1 need to fixed, we need to have
<amachu> thats taking it far tooooooo beyond I believe.. and in the scope of canonical :-)
<elkbuntu> Ok, unless anyone has anything else urgent...
<Ekushey> I'm sorry but i've go now... take care all. Bye bye amachu, elkbuntu, markvandenborre, pleia2 and others.
<markvandenborre> Ekushey, bye
* markvandenborre is going back to work too
<elkbuntu> I'm going to call the meeting closed then. Thanks all!
<amachu> elkbuntu: thank u
<amachu> Thank You every one
<amachu> :-)
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 01 May 15:00 UTC: Kernel Team | 01 May 18:00 UTC: Mozilla Team | 02 May 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 02 May 20:00 UTC: Xubuntu Developers | 03 May 16:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 08 May 20:00 UTC: Technical Board
#ubuntu-meeting 2008-04-22
<rodserling> I'm here for the Ubuntu Hug Meeting?
<boredandblogging> rodserling: hug days are usually in #ubuntu-bugs
<rodserling> Noted. Thanks kind sir.
<davmor2> hello everybody
 * liw waves
 * stgraber waves
 * ogasawara_ waves
<pedro_> hola :-)
 * davmor2 waves back at everyone :)
<davmor2> hello heno :)
<heno> hello everyone!
<ogasawara_> hi
<pedro_> hey hey
<sourcercito_> howdy
<stgraber> looks like we have everyone :)
<bdmurray> hey hey hey
<davmor2> now we have :)
<stgraber> uhm, I was wrong, now we do :)
<heno> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 18:05. The chair is heno.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<stgraber> hi bdmurray
<heno> just one topic today: 8.04
<heno> we have been testing kvm and wubi for some critical issues in #ubuntu-testing
<heno> It looks like we should have candidate images some time this evening
<heno> that will be a bit tight for full validation by Thursday but it should work
<heno> provided there are no more surprises
<liw> until the candidate images are out, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/ISO/FixValidation is a good todo list, right?
<heno> the kvm issue has not been pinned down completely, but the bug has been confirmed to live in kvm
<davmor2> heno: I'll not be able to download till tomorrow so I'll hit wubi and M-a first then start picking up the tests not being hit.
<heno> which is less bad than a kernel bug would be as we can SRU a kvm fix
<heno> liw: indeed
<stgraber> heno: with enough caffeine that shouldn't be a problem validating all of them by thursday :)
<stgraber> heno: should the priority of the kvm bug changed from critical to high then ?
<heno> I wonder if any items should be moved from the RC to the Final table?
<heno> stgraber: IMO yes
<heno> pedro_, ogasawara_, bdmurray: can you look at Testing/ISO/FixValidation to see if we should move some entries from RC to final?
<ogasawara_> heno: sure
<davmor2> heno: I recon we should be done by lunch time thursday latest
<heno> in fact should we just move all those that haven't been tested (most)?
<pedro_> heno: sure no problem
<liw> davmor2, lunch time in what time zone? :)
<davmor2> utc
<heno> I expect Steve aims to release Thursday morning PST
<pedro_> heno: yes, i've moved the gtk-sharp crash to final , but i think that the others ones can be moved too in order to have a real test on them, ill do it
<heno> or PDT, whatever it is now :)
<heno> how many of those have test cases?
<liw> heno, that's US west coast time?
<heno> liw: yes
<bdmurray> liw: yeah! US west coast!
<heno> team OR spirit :)
<pedro_> most of them have a good description so it should be easy to test them
<liw> so that's maybe around utc late afternoon or early evening, I guess
<heno> pedro_: ok, cool
<heno> does anyone have other topics, relating to 8.04 or otherwise?
<davmor2> liw: tends to be that the us is available for chat around 4-ish so hopefully 3-4 hours after we finish every test
<heno> ... seems not
<heno> ok, let's get get back to testing
<davmor2> :D
<heno> the Fix validation list is a good place to start
<heno> as is setting up VMs and such that will be useful in the testing crunch
<heno> syncing CDs also
<heno> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 18:20.
<heno> thanks all!
<stgraber> 20min, not bad :)
<stefan> hello together
* ubotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Marketing meeting Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 23 Apr 20:00 UTC: LoCo Council | 23 Apr 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 30 Apr 21:00 UTC: Server Team
#ubuntu-meeting 2008-04-23
<boredandblogging> hello
<L1pe> hi
<boredandblogging> meeting time?
<DPic> hello everyone and happy earth day
<DPic> yeah, meeting time :)
<L1pe> hi DPic
<DPic> hi L1pe
<DPic> So we have a blank agenda but i think we should still talk about a few things
<DPic> this is our last meeting before the hardy release
<L1pe> just arrived for the meeting I thought I wouldn't get on time
<DPic> we still haven't gotten any new flyers from LoCo's have we?
<boredandblogging> nope
<L1pe> DPic I' will be sendong ubuntu-ar's flyers for flisol to the loco contact list
<L1pe> tonight
<L1pe> *sending
<boredandblogging> L1pe: can you share that on the wiki?
<L1pe> yes, sure It's in spanish, I will put it in the ubuntu-ar page on the wiki and link it from Marketing. is it ok?
<DPic> that sounds good
<DPic> maybe we really can't depend on LoCo's to create fliers for us and we just need more marketing team members
<L1pe> k, I'm doing it right now
<L1pe> DPic: maybe we can designate someone to be the "flyers coordinator" or something like that
<DPic> what would their job be?
<L1pe> his role in the team will be to encourage and follow up the creation/update of the fliers and related marketing
<L1pe> I think we just need someone to focus on that as his main job in the team
<DPic> well i think the benefit of us making out own fliers and distribute them to LoCo's is that the flyer or poster or whatever is created with the intention of being used for one team
<boredandblogging> can't help much with that
<boredandblogging> I have no artistic ability at all
<DPic> well i'm not really artistic but i can create flyers as they're needed
<L1pe> boredandblogging: I don't think the main issue is the art, the ussual problem is the redaction and the grammar
<L1pe> (and the translation :) )
<RoAkSoAx> why dont you just get in contact with the people who creates flyers for their own LoCo's so that way you can work together in the creation of them, and then.. after being created... they can be modified to satisfy own LoCo's needs
<L1pe> RoAkSoAx: sure... but if someone takes the job as his main task, the task will be performed...
<DPic> RoAkSoAx: that sounds like a good idea. we could message the marketing team and loco contacts lists to recruit people
<RoAkSoAx> yes, that way... they would not only create flyers for the LoCo's.... but for all the Ubuntu Community to use...
<RoAkSoAx> *(for their own LoCo's)
<DPic> yeah, i'll send out an email for that
<L1pe> RoAkSoAx: yes, it would be great to ask them to make an english version to share
<boredandblogging> ask them for an editable version
<boredandblogging> not a flattened jpg
<boredandblogging> or something similar
<DPic> yeah
<L1pe> boredandblogging: sure. some free editable format
<DPic> well they'll be working with us so that won't be a problem
<DPic> at the last meeting we talked about electing a leader, do we want to put that on our schedule for our next meeting? i'm not sure if we really need a "leader." I'm currently listed as a contact for this team and anyone else is free to add themself
<boredandblogging> don't really have an opinion about it
<DPic> it doesn't seem to be very important
<DPic> does anyone think we should need an elected leader?
<L1pe> me neither. Can't we make a launchpad poll to ask the marketing team members if a leader should be elected or not?
<RoAkSoAx> i believe that it is always useful to have a leader! that way it can conduct the team into the right direction... manage things, and decide over important decitions to make...
<DPic> well we sort of make decisions as a team. the only thing a leader might be able to do is be a tiebreaker of sorts
<DPic> is there anything more we should do for the hardy release?
<boredandblogging> maybe see if locos need help advertising install fests
<DPic> and how would we help? creating materials or did you have more in mind?
<L1pe> this saturday in all Latin america is the biggest Free software event in the world. I feel we as the marketing team are doing nothing to help with it
<L1pe> (the locos are doing a big job, but we are not giving any marketing support to them asa far as I know)
<DPic> i didn't even know about it. what can we do ?
<L1pe> Good question, I don't know... any ideas?
<DPic> doesn't seem like we can do much in our current state
<L1pe> I will send the ubuntu-ar flyer to the loco contacts list when this meeting finishes
<L1pe> I't already in spanish an I think I can get it translated to portuguese
<DPic> alright great
<DPic> oh and the ubuntu in stores campaign
<DPic> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarketingTeam/Campaigns/UbuntuInStores
<DPic> should we continue trying to get people to contact stores?
<L1pe> hmmm did the campaign worked for someone?
<DPic> well no, major stores haven't started selling machines with ubuntu on them but the point is to let the stores know that we want them
<L1pe> and what are we doing for that purpose?
<DPic> well it's left up to people to contact those stores via mail, phone, or email
<L1pe> how we track down the people to see if anybody is responding to the campaign
<DPic> how can we?
<L1pe> because maybe never has called and we have to find out another way...
<DPic> yeah but how can we track who has contacted stores?
<L1pe> I don't know maybe a "call registry" wiki page
<DPic> i could add a section to the wiki page for that
<DPic> alright sounds good
<DPic> anything else before the meeting ends?
<L1pe> not here
<DPic> going once
<DPic> twice
<DPic> alright everyone thanks for coming
<DPic> meeting adjourned
<L1pe> :)
<L1pe> I have to leave, see you.
<L1pe> thanks for coming
* ubotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 23 Apr 20:00 UTC: LoCo Council | 23 Apr 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 30 Apr 21:00 UTC: Server Team
<dholbach> good morning
<Hobbsee> guten tag.
<boredandblogging> @now
<ubotu> Current time in Etc/UTC: April 23 2008, 18:37:52 - Next meeting: LoCo Council in 1 hour 22 minutes
<zul> @schedule montreal
<ubotu> Schedule for America/Montreal: 23 Apr 16:00: LoCo Council | 23 Apr 17:00: Server Team | 30 Apr 17:00: Server Team
<lucianodrosda> who}
<RoAkSoAx> @schedule lima
<ubotu> Schedule for America/Lima: 23 Apr 15:00: LoCo Council | 23 Apr 16:00: Server Team | 30 Apr 16:00: Server Team
<jono> @ now
<jono> @now
<stgraber> jono: 21:39 -!- ubotu [n=ubotu@ubuntu/bot/ubotu] has quit [Client Quit
<jono> thanks stgraber :)
<jono> @now London
<jono> ;)
 * jono chuckles
<RoAkSoAx> lol
* ubotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: LoCo Council Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 23 Apr 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 30 Apr 21:00 UTC: Server Team
<jono> @now
<ubotu> Current time in Etc/UTC: April 23 2008, 19:57:02 - Current meeting: LoCo Council
<RoAkSoAx> @schedule Lima
<ubotu> Schedule for America/Lima: Current meeting: LoCo Council 23 Apr 16:00: Server Team | 30 Apr 16:00: Server Team
<keffie_jayx> boredandblogging, almost ready?
<keffie_jayx> popey, ready?
<popey> oops
<popey> here
<popey> :)
<boredandblogging> ready
<JanC> I'm here too  ã
<jono> hey all
<popey> lo jono
<jono> which LoCo Council people are here?
<keffie_jayx> me
<popey> o/
 * boredandblogging raises his hand
<JanC> \o
<jono> no Nick Ali?
<popey> thats boredandblogging
<jono> oops
<boredandblogging> jono: thats me
<keffie_jayx> jono,  that'll be boredandblogging
<jono> sorry, being an idiot
<jono> so we have a full house?
<popey> BINGO!
<jono> great stuff :)
<JanC> does that mean we win?
<jono> I think so
<jono> everyone wins :)
<jono> you win a prize of buying me a beer :)
<jono> congrats!
<popey> you coming to De Hems tomorrow?
<JanC> jono: if you ever come to Belgium...  ;)
<jono> popey: I am in the US, so unlikely :)
<jono> JanC: count on it dude :)
<popey> I'll drink one for you
<jono> popey: do :)
<jono> alrighty
<jono> is anyone chairing this?
<jono> I can do it if you want, but don't mind if someone else does it
<keffie_jayx> we would hope you would for it being the first
<juliux> hoi
<juliux> puh just in time;9
<juliux> johnc4510, boredandblogging ?
<juliux> yep;)
<juliux> let's hope that is not the last time;)
<jono> sure, I can do it if you like
<keffie_jayx> jono,  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoCouncilAgenda
<jono> thanks :)
<juliux> +1 for jono
<jono> ok, first thing is privacy of the list
<jono> I recommend a closed list
<popey> a new closed list?
<popey> in addition to ubuntu-locoteams?
<jono> the CC has a closed list so discussions can occur in private where private discussions need to happen
<jono> yes, this will be a list for the council members
<popey> ok
<popey> I agree then
<boredandblogging> agreed
<juliux> agreed
<keffie_jayx> agreed
<juliux> perhaps we can open the archive somedaies
<JanC> I don't care much about the private aspect, but it's okay for me
<jono> juliux: I think taking a list that was private and  making it open is a suspect thing to do
<boredandblogging> juliux: probably not depending on what is discussed
<jono> ok, so we have agreement
<jono> good thing :)
<jono> I will put in an RT for the council list right now
<boredandblogging> jono: there is one already
<JanC> jono: I think some Debian lists do that (they open private lists after a certain time)
<juliux> ok then a closed list
<jono> boredandblogging: there is a loco council list?
<popey> uhm
<JanC> like security lists etc.
<keffie_jayx> jono,  one ticket in rt for it
<boredandblogging> jono: this is an rt request for it
<jono> oh thanks
<jono> :)
<boredandblogging> let me find it
<popey> if you have a private archive, there is no real way you can "open the archives" in the future
<popey> unless you get agreement from everyone who ever posted / quoted in it
<JanC> not with default mailman
<popey> no, I am not saying technically
<jono> ok, next up
<popey> politically and in some ways legally
<jono> the remit of the council
<JanC> popey: everybody would have to okay it, true
<boredandblogging> jono: https://rt.ubuntu.com/Ticket/Display.html?id=1764
<jono> thanks boredandblogging
<boredandblogging> we've dealt with the privacy issue on fridge-devel
<boredandblogging> its better to just create a new mailing list if you want it to be public after it was initially private
<popey> yes
<jono> so lets discuss the things the council should do:
<jono> approve members
<juliux> i thouht we shouldn't approve members
<nxvl> jono: should't it only approve LoCo teams?
<boredandblogging> think he meant LoCos
<keffie_jayx> the membership councils?
<jono> oops
<jono> sorry I meant approve teams
<juliux> loco council will be a super council;)
<jono> hehe
<jono> so everyone happy to approve locos?
<JanC> of course
<keffie_jayx> definetely
<jono> we will need to document the approval process for members
<boredandblogging> +1
<juliux> +1
<keffie_jayx> +1
<nxvl> jono: s/members/LoCos/
<jono> ok I recommend we do this:
<popey> +1
<jono>  * flesh out exactly how the approval process works - what kind of criteria is being approved
<jono>  * when a team is approved by the council they are official
<jono> sound ok?
<boredandblogging> what is the maximum bribe we can accept? :-P
<jono> haha
<juliux> sounds good for me
<jono> can I ask someone to document this?
<JanC> boredandblogging: one case of beer?  :P
<nxvl> nop
<keffie_jayx> good enough,
<jono> I would like to summarise the process and have some people take charge of documenting it in detail
<nxvl> wrong window
<jono> any volunteers?
<juliux> jono, is there allready a base?
<jono> juliux: not yet - this will be a new document
<boredandblogging> was there any documentation on the old process of approving?
<keffie_jayx> jono,  i could, provided that several people have a good look at it... I have duffy fingers
<jono> its largely what kind of things are considered in an approval
<popey> keffie_jayx: paste the url, we can subscribe to the wiki page and edit
<popey> It *is* a wiki :)
<jono> keffie_jayx: ok you happy to do it?
<JanC> right
<juliux> i will try to provide something in the next weeks, but i am busy with work
<keffie_jayx> jono yep, no problem
<jono> ok cool
<keffie_jayx> shall email the link once I get started
<juliux> keffie_jayx, yes please
<JanC> there have been some rules in the past
<jono> keffie_jayx: I will email you with a summary of the process, just write it up - I will let you know in the email
<juliux> we should als review that process with the locoteams
<jono> ok, next up is approving resources
<JanC> like "proof of sustained activity"
<jono> mainly mailing lists, but also hosting
<jono> are you all happy to do this?
<juliux> sure
<popey> yup
<popey> this would be a very good thing to offload to us
<juliux> its good if more people know about that
<popey> you / canonical sysadmins get a lot of shit about that
<jono> indeed
<boredandblogging> lol
<jono> I am looking forward to offloading it ;)
<juliux> and they can inform people about it if they are asking in the irc channel
<jono> popey: can I ask you to document this?
<boredandblogging> do we need to get the sysadmins to buy into this?
<popey> sure, drop me an email with whatever you have
<jono> popey: will do, thanks
<jono> boredandblogging: already spoke to them about it, they are cool
<JanC> how will this work ?
<boredandblogging> jono: cool
<juliux> does everybody of us gets an account for the rt?
<juliux> or is there one for the council?
<jono> juliux: I will get advice from them about this
<JanC> can we add mailing lists, or do we have to ask them?
<jono> they will liaise with you
<jono> JanC: you will approve the lists and they will create them
<juliux> ok
<juliux> and we will ping and ping and ping the sysadmins;)
<juliux> asking about the status;)
<jono> in terms of ensuring the technical implementation of resource approval happens, can I suggest the IS team liaise with one person, maybe popey as he is writing it up?
<boredandblogging> i have an account on rt, I can start doing that
<popey> ooh, handy
<JanC> great
<jono> boredandblogging: we need to get the process in place first, ensure everything is ticking over ok
<boredandblogging> right
<jono> ok, I will send a mail to IS and copy in popey
<jono> then we can kick that off
<jono> right, conflict resolution
<jono> we should expect conflict resolution to come to the LoCo council
<jono> I would like to recommend that the Council goes and modifies LoCo documentation to say how to add a conflict to the council agenda
<jono> does this sound fine?
<popey> conflict between who and who?
<JanC> +1
<popey> using what medium?
<juliux> popey, inside a locoteam
<popey> hmm
<boredandblogging> maybe email the mailing list too if there are some issues they would like to discuss?
<popey> irc and forums are covered
<JanC> and conflicts between LoCoTeams
<popey> what medium do you expect this conflict to present itself?
<juliux> popey, sometimes you need a independent person
<jono> I would recommend this:
<jono>  * there will be some loco teams that have conflict, they can add an agenda item to a loco council meeting to get the help of the council on the issue - that is the normal process
<jono>  * some conflict will be private, and teams should be able to mail the loco council mailing list so it can be discussed privately
<jono> sound reasonable?
<juliux> yes
<boredandblogging> +1
<JanC> fine for me
<popey> so long as they know about it
<jono> yep
<popey> I'd be surprised if we get any activity in that dept
<popey> but +1 anyway
<jono> ok, can I ask one of you to update the LoCo documentation to reflect this?
<keffie_jayx> popey,  it does happen
<juliux> popey, i know that it will happen one day
<keffie_jayx> resources get hijacked... like ubuntu-ve's IRC channel
<jono> juliux: you ok to do this?
<juliux> jono, yes
<popey> keffie_jayx: but that's my point - surely the irc council deal with that?
<keffie_jayx> yes
<jono> thanks
<jono> ok next up is reporting
<jono> I would like to ensure all loco council meetings are added to the monthly report
<juliux> popey, what are you doing if two teams are coming and saing they hijacekd the irc channel? the irc council don't knwo the is the "real" locoteam;)
<jono> can someone take charge of summarising meetings on the report?
<JanC> popey: the IRC council can't always decide who represents the LoCoTeam
<boredandblogging> i can do the reports
<jono> popey: believe me there is conflict - the swedish team fell out quite a bit and needed a mediator to help
<juliux> thxs boredandblogging
<jono> and its all fixed now
<popey> ok
<jono> thanks boredandblogging
<popey> clearly i live in a rose-tinted loco team :)
<popey> we _never_ have conflict
<popey> HAH!
<Daviey> HAHAHA
<jono> popey: us brits are perfect, remember?
<popey> shut it Daviey
<jono> :P
<popey> of course
<jono> ok, so meeting times
<jono> can I recommend monthly meetings?
<jono> as a minimum
<juliux> i think once a month should be the minimum
<jono> I recommend you start with monthly meetings and make them more regular if required
<jono> try a few meetings first
<boredandblogging> weren't we talking about twice a month?
<boredandblogging> similar to the CC schedule?
<jono> what do you all feel?
<juliux> i think we should start with twice a month
<juliux> and if that is too much we can skip one
<jono> CC? twice a month? have you been smoking crack boredandblogging? :P
<jono> ok, everyone happy with twice a month?
<JanC> I would say, let's see how many items are on the agenda, and how urgent they are?
<boredandblogging> jono: maybe not crack, but... :-P
<popey> I'd say once a month
<jono> JanC: I think there needs to be an enforced regularity really
<popey> twice seems like too much for us
<popey> especially as we all tend to hang out on irc
<jono> maybe do once a month, and if there is too much stuff call an additional meeting?
<keffie_jayx> +1 once a month
<popey> so can easily communicate with eachother
<juliux> i am also fine with once a month
<JanC> well, once a moth would be nice, with a possibility to have an additional meeting in between if needed?
<juliux> and extra meetings if necessary
<jono> sounds good
<jono> so once a month?
<juliux> +1
<JanC> +1
<keffie_jayx> enough time for changs to occur. I just hope we don't get full up with memberships
<keffie_jayx> +1
<popey> +1
<jono> ok cool
<popey> unlikely keffie_jayx
<popey> be nice if we did tho :)
<juliux> is like in the udds everything gets 100% of the votes;)
<jono> ok, so I think we have the core things decided now
<popey> time for beer?
<juliux> jono, one more issuse the irc council asked me about ubuntu-tr
<keffie_jayx> I would klike to ask about the loCo teams already on the CCagenda
<juliux> jono, have you any document or irc log that says the are allready approved?
<jono> can I suggest I send out a summary and you all follow through on the actions we discussed?
<jono> ubuntu-tr?
<keffie_jayx> I got the idea (from someone) that we would be aproving those
<juliux> jono, yes
<JanC> keffie_jayx: those should be moved to LCC agenda
<keffie_jayx> and teams informed of the new process
<jono> juliux: I don't know off hand if there is a log
<jono> it should have been approved by the CC though
<popey> there's the meeting logs surely?
<jono> this is a good point, can I suggest that meeting logs of approvals are kept somewhere
<juliux> jono, ok i will grep the cc logs
<popey> jono: looks like someone just moved it to the "approved" section on hte wiki
<jono> thanks juliux
<jono> popey: oh right
<juliux> jono, i think we should add a colom where it says when  a locoteam was approved
<jono> this is a great first mission for the LoCo council, can you look into it?
<popey> people have grepped and couldn't see
<jono> juliux: yes indeed
<jono> if they cannot be proved to be approved, then you should bring them to a meeting to discuss it I think
<popey> Your mission Jan, should you choose to accept it..
<juliux> jono, i will search on the logs, and where i find a date i will add it to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoTeamList
<jono> thanks
<jono> ok, so I think we are largely done - I will get onto the mail now
<jono> feel free to discuss things in my absence :)
<juliux> jono, thanks for your time
<keffie_jayx> jono,  thanks for your time
<boredandblogging> thanks jono
<jono> thanks all for contributing to the council - I think this is going to be extremely helpful :)
<keffie_jayx> juliux,  beat me to it Â¬Â¬
<juliux> jono, and lets drink a beer in prague;)
 * popey talks about jono in his absence
<JanC> popey: my mission = what exactly ?  ã
 * keffie_jayx is the onlyone not going to prague :(
<popey> so that bead
<popey> *beard
<juliux> keffie_jayx, next time;)
<popey> how we going to get jono drunk at uds to shave it off?
<jono> hehe
<jono> yes indeed :)
<juliux> keffie_jayx, it is my first uds in 3,5 years ubuntu;)
<popey> Jagermeister I reckon
<jono> popey: erm no :P
<popey> :)
<juliux> popey, jÃ¤germeister;)
<boredandblogging> swoon him with some metal music
<popey> ta
<keffie_jayx> jono,  was that really you in the treckie suit?
<JanC> lol
<popey> :)
 * keffie_jayx hides
<nxvl> are you going to check for new LoCo's applications today or after the documentation on the process is done?
<popey> well done guys
<popey> nice tight meeting
<popey> lets make them all like that :)
<keffie_jayx> next meeting then?
<jono> can I recommend you all book a meeting
<juliux> nxvl, hopefully at the next meeting;9
<popey> well, 1 month from now is UDS
<keffie_jayx> a week befor usd?
<nxvl> popey: < 1 month
<popey> so we could do it at UDS and have keffie_jayx on the phone
<keffie_jayx> :D
<boredandblogging> lol
<popey> use the voip system
<juliux> hehe
<juliux> that sounds funny
<popey> I'm serious :)
<Daviey> voip \o/
<keffie_jayx> that would make me feel soooooo included
<popey> we will all be in a room
<popey> cool
<juliux> i think we should try that
<juliux> invite all other locoteams to join us
<keffie_jayx> right then I am in for a VOIP meeting... just pick a time already
<popey> yeah, others can listen in
<nxvl> can i film the meeting? sounds so funny
<JanC> I don't think I can make it to UDS  ;)
<boredandblogging> videocast our meetings?
<juliux> JanC, :(
<popey> same time as this meeting, on the wednesday
<popey> of uds
<keffie_jayx> facebook our meetings...
<keffie_jayx> c'mon guys pick a tme already
<juliux> popey, 20:00 utc is in prage 22:00 that is a little bit late for a meeting
<popey> ah
<popey> yes
<juliux> popey, the cz's have realy good beer
<nxvl> keffie_jayx: or twitt them
<popey> also might be difficult getting access to the room
<boredandblogging> everyone will be too drunk by then :-P
<popey> 7pm prague time would be better
<popey> then we go out at 8pm :)
<popey> 7pm is after all the UDS stuff is finished
<popey> but not too late
 * keffie_jayx can't stress he wants to go to usd enough
<popey> :(
<popey> so, Wed 28th May, 19:00 local time prague?
<nxvl> so i can make a presential application for Peruvian LoCo team?
<juliux> or we make it one week lyter
<juliux> popey, 28th is no uds
<juliux> popey, uds is 21may
<popey> oh yeah
<keffie_jayx> if it's for me,  am in -4:30 but I would be fine with wahtever time
<JanC> 20h CEST / 18h UTC is okay for me
<popey> so, Wed 21th May, 19:00 local time prague?
<juliux> yes
<juliux> so 17:00UTC
<JanC> 19h CEST / 17h UTC too
<juliux> prague is utc +2
<keffie_jayx> hey guys a minute for this meeting?
<boredandblogging> sounds good
<popey> +1 ?
<boredandblogging> +1
<juliux> +1
<JanC> +1
<keffie_jayx> is it VOIP then?
<popey> should be
<popey> we need to ask elmo to keep a line open for us after uds finishes that evening
<boredandblogging> just in case, we'll reserve -meeting
<popey> or alternatively one of us can just run skype on a laptop or something :S
<popey> boredandblogging: can you put it in the fridge?
<JanC> I don't have VoIP  ;)
<popey> JanC: you dont need it
<nxvl> would you accept presential applications on this meeting?
<boredandblogging> yeah, I'll put it on the fridge
<nxvl> i will be on prague also
<nxvl> :D
<juliux> nxvl, depends on the kind of the presential application;9
<popey> JanC:  you can phone in, or listen to a shoutcast feed
<JanC> nxvl: you can prepare your application if you want to be approved then, yes
<nxvl> juliux: a normal aplication, but intead of being on IRC, to be sit front of you presenting my application
<juliux> nxvl, i am fine with that
<popey> heh, excellent
<popey> bring cake
<boredandblogging> so wed 21st may, 17:00 UTC?
<popey> yup
<juliux> yep
<nxvl> popey: s/cake/beers/
<viperhoot> +1
<JanC> popey: I'll see what I can do then
<popey> JanC: do you have no internet access then?
<keffie_jayx> I am in may 21 at 17 UTC
<keffie_jayx> who does the minute for this meeting? is it the same we do for monthly reports?
<JanC> popey: I should have internet access, but for VoIP a microphone is useful I suppose  ;)
<popey> JanC: you can use irc
<JanC> of course
<popey> :)
<popey> we can relay questions/comments from you
<popey> we did that at UDS last year for numerous topics
<popey> works well if _someone_ is responsible for looking at the irc channel :)
<boredandblogging> we should probably rearrange the agenda page to accept loco applications
<RoAkSoAx> so, where can i propose that the next year the UDS could be in Cusco Peru, so that you guys can go visti Macchu Picchu xD :P
<JanC> if it would be during a weekend, the chances of me being able to visit Prague would be a little higher
<popey> it is :)
<popey> FOSSCamp is the weekend before
<popey> I will be in Prague from 15th May
<juliux> i will come at 18th
<juliux> at the evening
<boredandblogging> think I get in on the 15ht
<keffie_jayx> I stay home
<keffie_jayx> :(
<popey> :(
* ubotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: LoCo Council Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 23 Apr 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 30 Apr 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 21 May 17:00 UTC: LoCo Council
<nxvl> keffie_jayx: we will send you photos
<popey> would have been nice to have a "full house"
<nxvl> keffie_jayx: don't worry
<juliux> we should switch to #ubuntu-locoteams
<keffie_jayx> popey,  next time ;)
<nxvl> popey: y will be there 15th also
<keffie_jayx> juliux,  fine by me
<juliux> to give the channel free for the server-team;)
<popey> @now
<juliux> there meeting starts in 10min
<falk_> a
<owh> o/
<nxvl> \o\ <o\ <o> /o> /o/
<zul> hello
<owh> nxvl: Is that morning exercises?
<nealmcb> owh: looks like a group of cheerleaders to me :-)
<sommer> hey all
<nxvl> owh: nop, mid day dancing
 * mathiaz waves
 * faulkes- looks around for some beer
<nxvl> faulkes-: bring one for everyone!
<Koon> o/
<faulkes-> one beer isn't going to serve all of you ;)
<faulkes-> no matter how much I walk on water ;)
* ubotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Server Team Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 30 Apr 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 21 May 17:00 UTC: LoCo Council
<zul> if you have a low tolerance for alcohol it will
<nxvl> faulkes-: heh, u r right
<mathiaz> alright - let's get started
<soren> Hello.
<nijaba> o/
<mathiaz> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 23:00. The chair is mathiaz.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<mathiaz> Welcome to the last meeting of the Ubuntu Server Team
<jdstrand>  \o
 * faulkes- raises an eyebrow
<mathiaz> for the Hardy Release cycle
<sommer> heheh
<jdstrand> oh
<jdstrand> *phew*
<nxvl> i'm going for a quick smoke and brb
<soren> dendrobates sends his apologies.
<soren> He's on a road trip.
<mathiaz> Unless you've dropped off the Ubuntu planet, you know that we're releasing hardy tomorrow
 * kirkland recommends UpIRC PalmOS application for IRC connectivity in the car ;-)
<nijaba> kirkland: this is an add free channel ;)
<mathiaz> so testing testing and testing are the magic words these days
 * owh recommends mIRGGI for an N95 :)
<mathiaz> Today's agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting
<mathiaz> Last meeting note (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/Server/20080416) lists no ACTION
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Review release-blocker/criticial bugs related to the Server Team.
<MootBot> New Topic:  Review release-blocker/criticial bugs related to the Server Team.
<mathiaz> Anyone knows about such a bug ?
<zul> I hope not
<nxvl> nop
 * nijaba shivers
<nxvl> i haven't find any
<mathiaz> we've been chasing some kvm bugs
<mathiaz> but it was solved for hardy
<soren> Yeah. They've been popping up like crazy for the last 5-6 days.
<nijaba> soren: that's because we all did the iso testing using it, I guess
<jdstrand> I don't know that kvm has ever seen such a workout
<mathiaz> soren: for my understanding, you've disable virtio-blk in hardy ?
<soren> nijaba: Oh, yeah. Sure.
<soren> mathiaz: That's right.
<soren> mathiaz: Well...
<soren> mathiaz: The kernel supports it, and kvm has the code, too, but virtinst (and hence virt-manager) doesn't enable it for hardy guests.
<soren> We still have virtio-net, which by far was the most important one.
<kirkland> mathiaz: worth noting that jdstrand uploaded a fix for the nss/ldap login hang bug that's been around for a long while
<mathiaz> soren: so if I use virsh and an xml file to define my guest, I still have access to virtio-blk ?
<nijaba> a brillant fix by kirkland!
<jdstrand> soren: you did remove a troublesome patch for virtio-blk that makes it really not very good for normal uses though
<jdstrand> soren: correct?
<soren> mathiaz: Right.
<soren> jdstrand: Right.
<soren> For rather extreme valus of "not very good" even.
<soren> :)
<jdstrand> heh
<nealmcb> I had an odd postgres install problem on an ubuntu-vm-builder vm last night - I should try it again.... https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/postgresql-common/+bug/193696
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 193696 in postgresql-common "Postgresql 8.3 not responding" [Low,Fix released]
<mathiaz> nealmcb: I've commented on that bug - it's probably related to ubuntu-vm-builder
<nxvl> soren: did you see the shotdown botton bug i reported?
<nxvl> shutdown*
<nealmcb> mathiaz: I saw that, but the postgres was installed via apt-get, not in the original build
<mathiaz> nealmcb: postgresql works correctly in a guest
<mathiaz> nxvl: bug number ?
<soren> nxvl: I've not seen it, but I'm almost sure I know what it is :)
 * nxvl searches
<soren> nxvl: ...and it's not a bug :)
 * nijaba bets for acpi
<jdstrand> the libnss-ldap bug was tough to triage, but once it was triaged things fell into place. kirkland did most of the fix and it is working great. thanks kirkland!
<kirkland> nxvl: soren: I reported one too, a kvm segfault, acpi related?
<nxvl> Bug #190886
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 190886 in virt-manager "virt-manager: pause/break key does not work" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/190886
<soren> kirkland: I haven't seen it. I'm not really caught up on launchpad mail.
<soren> nxvl: They're different issues.
<jdstrand> still, all these kvm issues aren't release critical
<soren> nxvl: Your problem is that you have nothing that's responding to the acpi events the shutdown button sends.
<soren> nxvl: solution: Install acpid in the guest.
 * nxvl tries
<kirkland> soren: yeah, i haven't noticed any ill effects, besides the segfault message on /var/log/messages
 * jdstrand likes to 'Destroy' things
<jdstrand> (in virt-manager that is)
<mathiaz> so it seems like we're on track for hardy release
<mathiaz> let's move on
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] ServerTeam report and the monthly report
<MootBot> New Topic:  ServerTeam report and the monthly report
<mathiaz> sommer: you've been told we should have shorter reports ?
<sommer> mathiaz: ya, that was the gist of things
<mathiaz> sommer: right - I agree with that
<nijaba> does this mean we work too hard?
<mathiaz> I'm still working out the whole status reporting thing
<sommer> nijaba: heh, I think it means we report too hard
<owh> nijaba: No, it means we talk too much.
<kirkland> nijaba: nah, just talk too much :-)
<mathiaz> nijaba: it means we should edit the monthly report a little bit more
<mathiaz> for now, I just take the meeting minutes and shove them in the monthly report with some light editing
<owh> Is there a specified format that we need to adhere to?
<mathiaz> So I'd like to know if the format of the Weekly meeting minutes is good ?
<mathiaz> Are the minutes too short, too long or verbose ?
<nxvl> mathiaz: i found them good
<faulkes-> I find them concise and to the point
<sommer> mathiaz: I think they are too long and verbose
<nxvl> mathiaz: they have all the information needed
<owh> The current format shows what people would need if they were not at the meeting. Isn't that the whole point?
<sommer> mathiaz: it was mentioned that we don't have to report on the "ideas" that people are working on
<mathiaz> sommer: they == the minutes sent each week or the content of the monthly report ?
<nxvl> so anyone can understand what has been talked if they weren't present
<sommer> mathiaz: sorry, the monthly report... I think the minutes are fine
<mathiaz> sommer: ok - I aggree with you that the monthly report is about what has been done
<owh> But reporting on ideas is where progress comes from - it sparks something with someone and magic happens.
<mathiaz> sommer: I've tried to edit out the section about what people are working on
<mathiaz> sommer: may it's just too verbose
<mathiaz> owh: right - but I think the monthly report is about the past
<nealmcb> mathiaz: I think the minutes are great.  the reports could just be a shorter list with references to the minutes
<sommer> mathiaz: I think that's what they were getting at
<owh> mathiaz: But the monthly report is visible to more people, so the ideas spread wider.
<mathiaz> ok - so I'll try to make the monthly report less verbose on focus on what has been achieved
<sommer> we could always link the team report to the more detailed server report
<mathiaz> owh: agreed - I'm not sure that the monthly report is the correct way to do it
<owh> That sounds like a good idea.
<mathiaz> owh: I'd like to have a way to advertise what we're working on now (ie - the present and the futur)
<mathiaz> owh: but the monthly report seems to be about the past
<owh> mathiaz: But if that is the only such forum, then there is no real alternative location.
<mathiaz> sommer: that means we'd have three documents to maintain
<nealmcb> mathiaz: I also would like to see ideas for the future out there, and don't want another report series....
<nealmcb> so put ideas for the future in the reports, but just in more summarized form?
<mathiaz> sommer: the weekly minutes, the monthly server report and the server section of the monthly report
<sommer> mathiaz: heh, and there's also the blog idea :)
<faulkes-> if I have a list of current in-progress projects, I am happy to update the forum sticky on a regular basis
<owh> Where there *specific* objections to the monthly report?
<mathiaz> sommer: right - that's why I've tossed the idea of a blog
<mathiaz> owh: too verbose I think
<sommer> owh: ^^^ yes
<nealmcb> I recall noticing that there are also some differences e.g. in formatting - lots of subheadings in our report and that is rare in others
<nealmcb> so the table of contents looks like it is all server, all the time :-)
<owh> Excellent :)
<mathiaz> nealmcb: true - I'll try to fix that
<sommer> nealmcb: it's pretty much a pay per view channel
<owh> nealmcb: That's how it should be right :)
<nealmcb> cool - we can even monetize it!!
<mathiaz> [ACTION] mathiaz to make the server section of the monthly report less verbose
<MootBot> ACTION received:  mathiaz to make the server section of the monthly report less verbose
<owh> I've just looked at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/ReportingPage/2008-04, that's a single screen. Is that too verbose?
<mathiaz> I'd add that I've asked for a session at UDS about this
<mathiaz> I've got a couple of other ideas on improving the server team community and how to attract new contributors
<mathiaz> we should get a session at UDS about this to discuss all of that
<mathiaz> If you have ideas, add them to the IdeaPool page
<nealmcb> mathiaz: a session on reporting for all teams, or just server?
<mathiaz> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/IdeaPool
<mathiaz> nealmcb: just server - and it wouldn't be just about reporting
<mathiaz> nealmcb: I'd also get the input from the community team
<mathiaz> UDS will be a good place to discuss that
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] VMware release times in the partner repository.
<MootBot> New Topic:  VMware release times in the partner repository.
<mathiaz> owh: ??
<owh> Yup
<owh> I deploy servers with clients and rely on vmware-server.
<owh> The challenge is that the release dates are not synchronised.
<owh> This means that I cannot deploy a current release if it's recent.
<owh> Are there things we can do as a server team to mitigate this?
<soren> Not really.
<owh> Other than migrate to a different solution :)
<soren> It's in the hands of the partner repository people and VMWare.
<owh> There seems to be a disconnect there.
<owh> That is, release === release.
<faulkes-> ok, is it possible to speak to them about it or is this a one off issue?
<owh> faulkes-: Well it has happened two releases running and it seems it will happen again with Hardy.
<owh> I understand that we don't control our partners.
<owh> But if they purchase the right to be one, that comes with responsibilities.
<faulkes-> owh: will you send me a description of the issue/problem and I will see who we can approach @ vmware to discuss it?
<owh> IMHO
 * faulkes- doesn't know but they do have offices just down the road from here
<nealmcb> how long was the delay in previous releases?
<nijaba> point is that vmware does not want to build the tools until we release. that will not change until they complete the floss version of their tool
<owh> faulkes-: There was an email to U-D-D IRC about it for hardy where a developer was discussing it with them,
<nijaba> we talk with them bi-weekly
<owh> nijaba: But isn't that why we freeze stuff?
<zul> faulkes-: burlington?
<owh> nealmcb: I recall one delay of at least a month or more.
<nijaba> owh: they don't care, that's there rule...
<nijaba> their, even
<owh> nealmcb: I think it may have been at least 2 months, but my memory is hazy.
<faulkes-> zul: yes
<owh> nijaba: Well, that shouldn't be how it works. If you are a partner then you have a commitment.
<nijaba> owh: it should not be that long this time (I hope)
<faulkes-> zul: well, oakville, just near the border, they are about 5 min away
<owh> So, what is the process to raise this kind of issue?
<owh> Other than faulkes- knocking on their door.
<ivoks> sounds like politics
<owh> Am I under the misunderstanding that deploying a server with a partner repository is not meant for mission critical deployment?
<nijaba> owh: what do you mean exactly?
<faulkes-> owh: I think you have made your point
<faulkes-> nijaba: that if they commit to a partnership there is an inherent obligation to meet certain timeframes/responsibilities
<nijaba> owh: show me one os that has certified partner tools the day of release and I'll start to understand
<owh> faulkes-: Yes.
<owh> nijaba: That's not my point.
<faulkes-> nijaba: point
<owh> nijaba: It should be that way. If we cannot work towards that, then why are we partnering at all?
<faulkes-> however, the question remains, if we want to solve the issue, is there a way we can easily do so?
 * owh hunts for the email thread.
<faulkes-> I'm happy to show up at there door with a case of beer to discuss it but thats a bit extreme
<nijaba> faulkes-: the only real solution is for vmware to complete their oss implementation of their tool so that WE can compile them when needed
<nijaba> faulkes-: and that's the plan we've been following for a while now
<faulkes-> ok
 * faulkes- nods
<nijaba> faulkes-: unfortunately they did not complte it in time for hardy as we would have hoped.
<owh> Hold on, I'm not talking about vmware-tools.
<jdstrand> I am not speaking authoritatively here, but I always just figured they were going to do all their regression testing, etc when they knew things weren't going to change-- which means release
<owh> I'm talking about vmware-server
<nijaba> owh: vmware server is another story, as they do not even support the thing
<owh> nijaba: So, if it's not supported, why is it in the partner repository at all?
<nealmcb> I hear there's this kvm/libvirt/ubuntu-vm-builder suite that is sweet and open-source and could use some polish :-)
<nijaba> owh: partner repo does not equates to vendor supported, but to vendor provided, I gues
<owh> nealmcb: As soon as I can run that on hardware that runs vmware, I'm in.
<mathiaz> it seems that owh  highlighted a misconception about the partner repository
<owh> nealmcb: And as you well know, I've been putting my oar in there :)
<nealmcb> I see value with folks providing stuff on ubuntu and figure it is up to them how and when they do so
<mathiaz> This may need to be clarified by Canonical
<owh> mathiaz: At least a non-shared understanding.
<nealmcb> owh: right on - just didn't want that to get lost in the conversation
<mathiaz> Let's move on
<owh> nealmcb: Ah, the soren-pay-tv-channel :)
 * faulkes- has to head out
<owh> Right, so what is the action for this?
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Other Business
<MootBot> New Topic:  Other Business
<owh> Who can talk to someone about the issue?
<mathiaz> owh: there isn't much we can do unfortunately
<owh> mathiaz: Well we identified several issues.
<mathiaz> owh: it's up to vmware to figure it out
<owh> mathiaz: But it's up to us to point issues out to the partner team and Canonical.
<mathiaz> owh: I think that nijaba heard your concern and knows about it - it may take more time that expected to come to an proper solution
<soren> owh: "soren-pay-tv-channel"?
<nijaba> mathiaz: I did, indeed...
<owh> mathiaz: nijaba: Thanks, all good.
<mathiaz> owh: right - nijaba knows about it now - I think we cannot do much more
<owh> soren: Just a weird reference to all ubuntu-server all the time, pay-tv and you being mr virtual :)
<soren> owh: ok :)
<mathiaz> As you may know, there will be an Ubuntu OpenWeek next week
<mathiaz> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek/
<mathiaz> I'll give an intro about the Server Team on Tuesday
<mathiaz> and soren will lead a session on virtualization
<mathiaz> there are a lot more sessions scheduled
<mathiaz> check the wiki page: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek/
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] #
<mathiaz> Agree on next meeting date and time.
<MootBot> New Topic:  #
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Agree on next meeting date and time.
<MootBot> New Topic:  Agree on next meeting date and time.
<mathiaz> Same place, same time, next week ?
<owh> Can I observe that the times associated with those sessions are heavily weighted to being while I'm asleep?
<nxvl> mathiaz: next week do we need to have a weekind, or it will be "vacations" until ibex repositories are up?
<mathiaz> owh: true - but there will be irc logs
<mathiaz> nxvl: repositories for intrepid may open next week
<owh> I'm just thinking, we've sort of gone global a while ago :)
<nxvl> woohooo, merge time
<mathiaz> nxvl: there is also UDS to prepare
 * nijaba won't be around next week
<nxvl> btw, is it a good idea to start merging now? or do i want until the repositories are up?
<mathiaz> nxvl: so if you wanna discuss something, it's also a good time to do some reasearch and get prepared
<nxvl> mathiaz: yep, i was forgeting that
<nxvl> :D
<owh> mathiaz: Is there going to be a way for the team to contribute to UDS even if they cannot physically attend?
<nxvl> mathiaz: you are right
<nxvl> next week, same time, same place
<owh> WFM
<ivoks> owh: yes, irc, and voip
<mathiaz> owh: yes - there are VOIP sessions
<mathiaz> owh: you can dial in
<mathiaz> owh: OTOH UDS is in Prague
<owh> Hmm, VoIP across satellite, yum.
<mathiaz> owh: so there may be some time zone issue for you ;)
<sommer> is there going to be icecast as well?
<mathiaz> sommer: icecast -> voip IIRC
<owh> mathiaz: Time I can fix, distance not so much.
<mathiaz> people will be able to hear the discussions in the rooms
<sommer> mathiaz: ah, gotcha
 * owh observes satellites in a geostationary orbit :)
<owh> Right, so meeting time then :)
<owh> Same bat channel works for me.
<mathiaz> Allright - so next week, same time same place
<nijaba> thanks mathiaz
<nealmcb> :-)
<mathiaz> thanks all for your participation
<kirkland> adios
<owh> mathiaz: Merci Beaucoup
<mathiaz> and we've done some great work for hardy
<sommer> thanks mathiaz, later on all
<jdstrand> thanks mathiaz!
<mathiaz> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 23:55.
<owh> mathiaz: At release I think we should take a moment to pat ourselves on the back.
<mathiaz> owh: that's what a release party is about
 * nealmcb begins to wonder if apt-cacher may have been part of his postgres problems
<owh> mathiaz: Yeah, but I'll be far away in Oz :|
<mathiaz> hanging out in #ubuntu-release-party tomorrow is also fun
<nealmcb> fun like in crazy :-/
<owh> mathiaz: Excellent suggestion.
 * owh heads over now to check out the pre-excitement :)
<spiekey_> may i ask a question?!... are you guys doing this just4fun or for some profit/company? :)
<nealmcb> spiekey_: it varies all over the board
<spiekey_> u must invest quite a lot of time i guess.
<owh> spiekey_: Well, personally I work for myself and in some way my clients benefit. I don't get paid to be here, but it pays towards my clients solutions.
<nealmcb> that varies too :-)
<owh> nealmcb: Yes :-)
<spiekey_> i am glad that this all works out :))
<nealmcb> I meant that the time committment varies...  but yeah :-)
<nealmcb> spiekey_: what is your interest?
<spiekey_> i personally think that OpenSource and especially Ubuntu/Linux is a great Server system and use it for my customers, too.
<spiekey_> unfortunatelly i have not much time to actually help with the development. I would love to get paid for that :)
<nealmcb> spiekey_: last I saw (a while ago), canonical was hiring.  and many folks work for other employers that benefit from ubuntu and pay folks to work on it
<spiekey_> i would rather develop a AllInOne Windows Replacement server based on ubuntu to have an alternative to the Windows Small Business Server :)
<nealmcb> spiekey_: have you used ebox?
<nealmcb> it doesn't do everything, but is a good step
<spiekey_> thanks, i will have a look at it
<spiekey_> gotta go. Good night :)
* ubotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 30 Apr 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 21 May 17:00 UTC: LoCo Council
#ubuntu-meeting 2008-04-24
<ragsagar> no one here?
<nixternal> I am :p
<RoAkSoAx> nixternal, do you have any new about the Membership Board?
<nixternal> just know that I am a "supposed" member of it...nothing more than that yet
<RoAkSoAx> i see :(
<nixternal> I am hearing after release
* ubotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 30 Apr 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 06 May 21:00 UTC: Community Council | 21 May 17:00 UTC: LoCo Council
<WaVeR> Morning
<Sid1> Hey, why isn't Ubuntu out yet?
<Sid1> 8.04**
<gnomefreak> Sid1: because there is alot of ISO's that are being made and uploaded
<Sid1> IMO, only 10 or so have to be made right?
<stgraber>  count
<stgraber> -------
<stgraber>     68
<stgraber> Sid1: ^
<gnomefreak> Sid1: its more than just making them and uploadning them they have to pass by the head release person (release manager) i belive is his title
<stgraber> and that's only for the one we are testing on iso.qa.ubuntu.com
<highvoltage> stgraber ftw
<Sid1> Stgraber = ?
<Sid1> Yeah
<Sid1> I'd lol if Ubuntu doesn't come out for another 3 days
<gnomefreak> Sid1: latest ive seen it in the last few years its been up to like 2 days late without advanced notice but most of time its right on the money
<highvoltage> Sid1: if there was a reason for delay, it would'vebeen announced yesterday already
<stgraber> Sid1: it'll be out today
<Sid1> It's nearly 6 PM, I have a speech to do, but damn, I want to get ubuntu over vista for now
<jsgotangco> its not easy pushing build servers ;-)
<stgraber> jsgotangco: well, images are ready so not build servers' fault :)
<Sid1> :p
<jsgotangco> get back to work! *whips*
<Sid1> Haha
<Sid1> You know how GPL says software should be free, and everyone goes on about how OSS is better for everyone?
<stgraber> jsgotangco: my work is done, everything has been tested
<jsgotangco> :D
<Sid1> How do the people making OSS have any monetary incentive to support themselves/their family if they do not sell the software?
<stgraber> Sid1: they seel the support
<stgraber> sell even
<Sid1> Ah
<Sid1> stgraber: Are you part of the ubuntu team or something?
<stgraber> Sid1: indeed
<Sid1> Oh, nice
<Sid1> I wonder if this new one will let me hibernate my laptop
<Rubin> were back
<kees> hola, a little late... besides myself and jdstrand anyone else here for the security team meeting?
<kees> I kind of goofed and didn't realize two weeks ago that today would be release day.  ;)
<mra> I'm here for it, sorry I've missed a few in between
<kees> mra: we might be out of luck -- I don't see many other people.  perhaps we should reschedule for in another 2 weeks?
<kees> jdstrand: what do you think?
<jdstrand> kees: considering its release, I'd say wait
<jdstrand> (not much to talk about)
<mra> I'd be available the 8th
<kees> jdstrand: wait == reschedule?
<jdstrand> kees: yes
<jdstrand> wait 2 weeks
<kees> mra: okay, sounds good.  let's bump it.  :)  I'll send out more notice then too.  :)
<mra> sounds good
<kees> *shortest meeting ever*
<jdstrand> \o/
<mra> those are the best kind
<kees> hehe
<kees> thanks
<jdstrand> thanks kees!
#ubuntu-meeting 2008-04-25
<Hobbsee> @schedule sydney
<ubotu> Schedule for Australia/Sydney: 01 May 07:00: Server Team | 07 May 07:00: Community Council | 22 May 03:00: LoCo Council
<emma> Hello Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> hi.
<persia> Um.  That ought read that there is a MOTU Meeting at 6am or so (20:00 UTC).
<Hobbsee> persia: what day?
<Hobbsee> persia: poke the fridge
<persia> Today
 * Hobbsee grumbles.
<Hobbsee> i'm so *not* getting up for that
<persia> heh.  At this point, It's not about "getting up" :)
<Hobbsee> oh yes it is :)
<Hobbsee> i'ts 1am here.
 * persia looks up at the dark sky, and has little sympathy
<Hobbsee> and i'm likely to get nasty phonecalls from work early in the morning, so....i should be vaguely awake for them
<highvoltage> Hobbsee: I can't imagine why anyone would ever want to be nasty to you
<Hobbsee> highvoltage: is that sarcasm?
<highvoltage> Hobbsee: nope.
<Hobbsee> highvoltage: oh
 * Hobbsee queries
<highvoltage> ah ok
<dudus> @schedule
<ubotu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: 30 Apr 21:00: Server Team | 06 May 21:00: Community Council | 21 May 17:00: LoCo Council
<zul> @schedule montreal
<ubotu> Schedule for America/Montreal: 30 Apr 17:00: Server Team | 06 May 17:00: Community Council | 21 May 13:00: LoCo Council
<geser> ubotu doesn't know about the MOTU meeting in 90 minutes
* ubotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 25 Apr 20:00 UTC: MOTU | 30 Apr 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 06 May 21:00 UTC: Community Council | 21 May 17:00 UTC: LoCo Council
<boredandblogging> geser:  its not on the Fridge calendar, doesn't look like anyone sent an email to fridge-devel about it. I just added it
* ubotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: MOTU Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 30 Apr 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 06 May 21:00 UTC: Community Council | 21 May 17:00 UTC: LoCo Council
<cody-somerville> MOTU meeting! :D
<sistpoty> 8 minutes left (unless my clock is wrong) :P
<RoAkSoAx> @now
<ubotu> Current time in Etc/UTC: April 25 2008, 19:53:20 - Current meeting: MOTU
<sistpoty> now it seems to be the right time :)
 * james_w cheers
<sistpoty> anyone volunteering to host the meeting?
<sistpoty> ok, if noone else steps in, I guess I'll do it
<sistpoty> [startmeeting]
<james_w> go for it
<sebner> sistpoty: thanks ;)
<james_w> sistpoty: with a # isn't it?
<sistpoty> ah, thanks
<sistpoty> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 22:03. The chair is sistpoty.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<sistpoty> [TOPIC] who does the minutes?
<MootBot> New Topic:  who does the minutes?
<sistpoty> so, any volunteers for minutes?
<james_w> I can do it if you like
<sistpoty> cool, thanks james_w
<sistpoty> [AGREED] james_w to do the minutes
<MootBot> AGREED received:  james_w to do the minutes
<sistpoty> [LINK] Agenda is: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Meetings
<MootBot> LINK received:  Agenda is: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Meetings
<sistpoty> persia: you have the first (and only) item, around?
<sistpoty> [TOPIC] Nomenclature for the Universe Hackers (Ubuntu Contributing Developers) team
<MootBot> New Topic:  Nomenclature for the Universe Hackers (Ubuntu Contributing Developers) team
 * sistpoty looks for a few mailing list links
<sebner> Question: If we find a good name today, we'll can start adding/approving members?
<geser> I hope so
<james_w> me too
<dudus> sorry, I'm new here, but universe hackers are not the same as the members of motu team?
<sebner> me too because I want to join ^^
<sistpoty> some candidates are here
<sebner> dudus: no
<sistpoty> [LINK] https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-motu/2008-April/003664.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-motu/2008-April/003664.html
<sebner> sistpoty: ^^ me
<sistpoty> sebner: I meant candidates for the name
<sebner> lol. sry
<dudus> sebner: whats de difference?
<sistpoty> ok, seems persia is not around... anyone who'd like to introduce the topic?
<james_w> dudus: it's a team without the full powers of MOTU, but people who have a recognised contribution
<sebner> james_w: I can't say it better :)
<geser> and it also grants  Ubuntu membership
<james_w> sistpoty: do we have enough people to make a decision now?
<sistpoty> james_w: sure, otherwise we'll drag the name thingy around for ages
<james_w> sistpoty: cool
<sistpoty> (and there is no quorum for motu-meetings)
<james_w> sistpoty: want to explain the issue while I pick out the names that had the most support from the thread?
<sistpoty> james_w: sounds like a good idea :)
<sistpoty> ok, for everyone who doesn't know yet, we'll need to find a good name for a team which is used to hand out ubuntu membership (and possibly other privileges) on behalf of MOTU
<sistpoty> anything I missed? *g*
<sebner> sistpoty: sounds good :)
<sistpoty> was anyone around during the last meeting? (I wasn't, so I cannot summarize the exact discussion from then)
 * geser neither
<james_w> sistpoty: there were a bunch of ideas proposed, but nothing decided
<sistpoty> thanks james_w
<james_w> there were objections to every suggestion, and as nothing had a unanimous agreement nothing was done.
<sebner> james_w: may want to post the most popular ones?
<geser> james_w: any good proposals?
<james_w> so, it seems we just need the majority verdict, 'cause we won't get unanimity.
<james_w> here's everything that was proposed, for completeness
<sistpoty> of course if anyone has good ideas right now, please shoot them out
<james_w> Acolyte of the Universe
<james_w> Supporter of the Universe
<james_w> âEnthusiast Memberâ
<james_w> âMember with Distinctionâ
<james_w> âLieutenant of the Universeâ
<james_w> âCommunity Fellowâ
<james_w> âDeveloper Fellowâ
<james_w> Cosmic Coders
<james_w> âEternianâ
<sebner> I have a new proposal
<james_w> âUbuntu Universe Astronautâ
<james_w> âUbuntu Contributing Developerâ
<sistpoty> sebner: just shoot ahead ;)
<james_w> âGluonsâ
<sebner> Motu Supporters
<sebner> ^^
<james_w> âUniverse
<james_w> hackers"
<james_w> Monkeys of the Universe!
<james_w> Universe Apprenticesâ
<sebner> sistpoty: seems to be difficult to make a decision within the next 45 minutes
<james_w> ubuntu-members-universe
<james_w> or
<james_w> botu (bachelors of the universe)
<sebner> lol
<james_w> Men-At-Arms"
<sebner> james_w: I think we have enough ^^
<james_w> yep, that's the lot
<sebner> how should we handle this now?
<sistpoty> I guess everyone around says what she/he likes best, and we'll do a vote on that then
<slangasek> so to be clear, this team is: people who are not (yet) MOTU but have contributed to universe and we want to recognize as being "ubuntu members"?
<james_w> the most popular were "Ubuntu Contributing Developerâ, "Universe hackers",  "Universe Apprenticesâ and "ubuntu-members-universe"
<sebner> MOTU Supporters :P
<james_w> slangasek: yep, they get ubuntu membership in recognition of their work on universe
<sistpoty> slangasek: yes
<geser> slangasek: yes
<dudus> motu supporters seem more descriptive for what I understand the team goal will be
<sebner> Yeah
 * sebner --->> winner xD
<james_w> so from the ones that have support, shall we vote on each? Just +1, 0, -1?
<sistpoty> well, ubuntu-members-universe would fit in the ubuntu-members scheme, but I also like motu supporters actually
<sistpoty> maybe we can thin out the list a little bit more?
<dudus> ubuntu-motu-supporters
<james_w> actually, supporters is the one that I like the least, as it sounds like they are just fans of it, rather than doing useful work.
<crimsun> first, I don't think it's necessary that "member" be in the team title, because that will be self-evident
<james_w> however, I would be fine with any of them.
<RoAkSoAx> +1 dudus
<crimsun> second, I think the idea that seems to be best communicated is the contribution.  To that end, I feel something containing "contributor" is less vague than something containing "member."
<crimsun> (or "supporter")
<james_w> anyone object to any outright?
 * sistpoty objects to hackers (and monkeys :P)
<slangasek> I object to "apprentice"
<crimsun> I think "Ubuntu universe contributors" meets quite a few criteria.
<james_w> crimsun: yes, the issue was that we currently have a universe-contributors team, but it doesn't mean we can't live with that or rename it.
<slangasek> which would imply an apprenticeship relationship that's not necessarily there
<james_w> slangasek: yep, that's the argument that was raised against that one
<sistpoty> ok, what do we have left in the list?
<crimsun> first, consider DDs, DMs, etc., who have contributed either through their Debian work or directly to Ubuntu.
<james_w> and people may be perfectly happy in this new group without becoming MOTU
<crimsun> second, consider people who are newly working on Ubuntu universe packages [which seems to be the target audience, no?]
<james_w> -supporters and -contributors seem to be the least disliked.
<sistpoty> "Ubuntu contributing developer" (or s.th. in that scheme), "ubuntu-members-universe", what else?
<slangasek> "masters of the universe" -> "bachelors of the universe"
<slangasek> >:)
<dudus> sistpoty: ubuntu-motu-supporters
<sistpoty> ok, then let's vote on these four
<sistpoty> [STARTVOTE] Ubuntu contributing developer (or s.th. from that scheme, e.g. in other order or w.o. ubuntu in it)
<sistpoty> #STARTVOTE Ubuntu contributing developer (or s.th. from that scheme, e.g. in other order or w.o. ubuntu in it)
<sistpoty> how do I start a vote?
<sistpoty> *g*
<sebner> sistpoty: [VOTE] Bla bla
<sistpoty> [VOTE] Ubuntu contributing developer (or s.th. from that scheme, e.g. in other order or w.o. ubuntu in it)
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Ubuntu contributing developer (or s.th. from that scheme, e.g. in other order or w.o. ubuntu in it).
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<geser> how many votes can one give?
<sistpoty> one for each name
<james_w> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from james_w. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<crimsun> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from crimsun. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<sistpoty> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from sistpoty. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<geser> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from geser. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<dudus> -1
<MootBot> -1 received from dudus. 4 for, 1 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<sistpoty> ... 3
<sistpoty> ... 2
<sistpoty> 1
<sebner> sistpoty: "meins"
<sistpoty> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 4 for, 1 against. 0 abstained. Total: 3
<geser> :)
<sistpoty> [VOTE] ubuntu-members-universe
<MootBot> Please vote on:  ubuntu-members-universe.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<sistpoty> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from sistpoty. 0 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 0
<crimsun> -1
<james_w> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from james_w. 0 for, 0 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 0
<dudus> +0
<MootBot> -1 received from crimsun. 0 for, 1 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now -1
<MootBot> Abstention received from dudus. 0 for, 1 against. 3 have abstained. Count is now -1
<geser> -1
<MootBot> -1 received from geser. 0 for, 2 against. 3 have abstained. Count is now -2
<james_w> sistpoty: it was your proposal :-)
<sistpoty> james_w: that's why I abstained :P
<sistpoty> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 0 for, 2 against. 3 abstained. Total: -2
<sistpoty> [VOTE] bachelors of the universe
<MootBot> Please vote on:  bachelors of the universe.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<james_w> -1
<MootBot> -1 received from james_w. 0 for, 1 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -1
<crimsun> -1
<MootBot> -1 received from crimsun. 0 for, 2 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -2
<sistpoty> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from sistpoty. 0 for, 2 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now -2
<geser> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from geser. 0 for, 2 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now -2
<dudus> -1
<MootBot> -1 received from dudus. 0 for, 3 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now -3
<james_w> sistpoty: no offence, it's funny, but I don't think it's a good choice.
<sistpoty> james_w: actually I don't like it too much myself *g*
<sistpoty> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 0 for, 3 against. 2 abstained. Total: -3
<sistpoty> what was the last one we wanted to vote about? supporters?
<james_w> yup
<dudus> ubuntu-motu-supporters or Ubuntu MOTU Supporters
<sistpoty> [VOTE] ubuntu-motu-supporters or Ubuntu MOTU Supporters
<MootBot> Please vote on:  ubuntu-motu-supporters or Ubuntu MOTU Supporters.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<dudus> +1
<sebner> or just MOTU Supporters?
<MootBot> +1 received from dudus. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<dudus> ftw
<sistpoty> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from sistpoty. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<geser> -1
<MootBot> -1 received from geser. 2 for, 1 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<james_w> -1
<MootBot> -1 received from james_w. 2 for, 2 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 0
<crimsun> -1
<MootBot> -1 received from crimsun. 2 for, 3 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -1
<RainCT> -1
<MootBot> -1 received from RainCT. 2 for, 4 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -2
<sistpoty> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 2 for, 4 against. 0 abstained. Total: -2
<sebner> sistpoty: is this the end or do you make a final vote with the 2 or 3 best?=
<james_w> sebner: you're not voting?
<sebner> james_w: no MOTU
<james_w> you have to be a MOTU to vote?
<sebner> james_w: yes ^^
<sebner> RainCT: damn you
<dudus> oops im not a motu
<sebner> RainCT: that was *my* name
<sebner> dudus: xD
<sistpoty> it also concerns non-motus, so imho you don't need to be a motu to vote
<RainCT> sebner: lol
<sebner> sistpoty: so we have to restart
<sebner> ^^
<RainCT> sebner: say that before, then I'd have voted -2 *g*
<sebner> for me ^^
<sistpoty> s/also/mainly/ (even)
<sebner> RainCT: arghhhhh xD
<james_w> sistpoty: I agree (and also, I'm not, so I don't want to have made a mistake :-)
<sistpoty> ok, we've got a total of +3 for the contributors and a total of -2 as second rank for the supporters
<sistpoty> so, if anyone thinks that we should revote between these two (I don't), please shout now ;)
<james_w> it seems pretty decisive.
<sistpoty> ok, then we'll only need to fiddle out the precise wording... I don't mind anything... ideas?
<RainCT> ehm.. sorry, could someone summarize what has been decided please?
<james_w> we need 3 names apparently. The lp team id, the lp team name, and the wiki name
<james_w> RainCT: we were discussing the name of the new team that will be used to grant membership to people who do good work in universe.
<sistpoty> RainCT: that we'll name the new team with s.th. from the scheme "ubuntu universe contributors" (maybe with/without ubuntu, or e.g. ubuntu contributing developers)
<geser> james_w: I'd propose to keep the names the same (as far as possible) to not confuse people
<crimsun> I would try to avoid "dev" in the string, since that namespace seems pretty busy already with -core-dev and the obsolete -dev
<sistpoty> geser: +1
<james_w> geser: yep, I don't see why the second two can't be the same, this is just what persia was saying last time.
<sistpoty> I'd try to not name it ubuntu-universe-contributors (at least the lp name), since that would mean some transition problems with the current team named like this
<james_w> sistpoty: yep
<james_w> ubuntu-contributing-developers?
<sistpoty> works for me
<james_w> ubuntu-contributors-universe :-)
<sistpoty> yeah, even better
<james_w> -devs? to keep it shorter?
<sistpoty> james_w: that would clash with what crimsun noted
<james_w> true
<geser> if we want to keep u-u-c (and not rename it to some else) I'd say the new name should have some difference from it
<crimsun> ubuntu-contributors-universe seems distinct "enough"
<geser> u-c-u as abbravation?
<sistpoty> geser: for what, lp name?
<geser> sistpoty: nothing special, more when we use it e.g. in IRC
<sistpoty> sure
 * LaserJock waves
<james_w> hi LaserJock
<crimsun> ('lo)
<geser> I see the risk that people mix up "ubuntu-universe-contributors" (open team) and "ubuntu-contributors-universe" (restricted team)
<james_w> so, any objections to ubuntu-contributors-universe?
<geser> Hi LaserJock
<crimsun> geser: agreed
<sistpoty> geser: imo we should rename u-u-c ASAP
<RainCT> geser: +1
<james_w> yeah, shall we discuss renaming u-u-c?
<LaserJock> ohhhh, this topic :-)
 * RainCT would rename u-u-c to revu-users, revu-cotnributors or something
<sistpoty> let's first try to find a name... *g*
<sebner> RainCT: but e.g I'm in this team and haven't used revu yet ..
<sistpoty> so, ubuntu-contributors-universe may be too close... what else?
<james_w> RainCT: the objection to that is that we may want to have an open team for some other purpose, and more than one open team seems counter-productive.
<RainCT> sebner: why are you there then? xD
<crimsun> "triagers"
<LaserJock> sistpoty: what are we deciding on?
<RainCT> ah
<sebner> RainCT: merging and syncing :P
<sistpoty> LaserJock: name for the monkey team ;)
<RainCT> sebner: but that doesn't require being in u-u-c, or?
<LaserJock> what about Hackers? what happened with that one?
<james_w> how about the -supporters name for the open team?
<sebner> RainCT: no but indicates that I'm working for ubuntu :P
<RainCT> heh
<sistpoty> LaserJock: it was objected on
<LaserJock> sistpoty: but is that the team we're working on or u-u-c ?
<crimsun> we're considering renaming the current u-u-c
<LaserJock> but what happened to dholbach's proposed Hackers team?
<LaserJock> has that been resolved?
<sistpoty> actually, I'm trying to reshift the topic back to this right now...
<sistpoty> please, let's first find a name for the hackers team... otherwise we might be discussing this the next 5 meetings again :P
<geser> LaserJock: not really, the proposal for now is "ubuntu-contributors-universe" which clashes with current u-u-c and we are trying to figure out what to do with u-u-c
<sistpoty> LaserJock: we've voted so far that it should have contributors in thte name
<sistpoty> -t
<sistpoty> so what other options with contributors do we have?
<james_w> sistpoty: old or new :-)
<LaserJock> well, my proposal was this, MOTU Apprentices and REVU Contributors for the two teams
<RainCT> prospective-ubuntu-developers? xDD
<sistpoty> james_w: new
 * RainCT hides
 * sistpoty grows gray hair
<crimsun> I'm fine with "dev" as long as what separates it from the current u-u-c is unambiguous
<james_w> ubuntu-contributing-devs?
<crimsun> sure
<LaserJock> I'm not fond of that
<LaserJock> ok, can I suggest that perhaps we define what the teams functions are?
<LaserJock> I think that would go a long ways towards getting a name
<sebner> MOTU Supporters :P
<james_w> LaserJock: we have that already I thought.
<crimsun> people who have a sustained contribution to Ubuntu universe, including triaging, merging, syncing, etc.
<LaserJock> james_w: the names suggestions I've seen don't seem to indicate that , IMO
<crimsun> They are granted Ubuntu membership, additionally.
<LaserJock> so they are people on their way to MOTUship, who have a significant and sustained contribution to Universe
<LaserJock> that's my working definition anyway
<crimsun> yes, AFAICS
<sistpoty> LaserJock: ok, what's your problem with ubuntu-contributing-devs and what is your suggestion instead (must have contribute in the name)
<james_w> yep, they don't have to go for MOTU, but that's the idea.
 * RainCT likes MOTU Supporters 
<LaserJock> sistpoty: I said MOTU Apprentices
<LaserJock> I think having "contribute" in the name of this team is a mistake, personally
<sistpoty> LaserJock: that doesn't have contribute in the name... of course we can restart with voting on everything from scratch if you prefer
<james_w> LaserJock: that was considered, but argued against.
<geser> slangasek noted that "apprentice" might imply a apprenticeship which isn't there
<LaserJock> it should
<sebner> RainCT: you voted with -1 for this name xD
<LaserJock> that would be the goal of the team
<LaserJock> apprenticeship towards MOTU
<RainCT> sebner: I didn't really know what we were voting *g*
<james_w> another objection was that it suggested they were aiming for MOTU when they might not be.
<LaserJock> they should be
<LaserJock> again, this is why I wanted a definition of what the team means
<crimsun> uh, let's not restrict their freedoms.
<LaserJock> why not?
<sebner> RainCT: freak xD
<geser> yes, but nobody is forcing them if they are happy to stay in that group
<LaserJock> I don't feel the need to create a team for *every* possible person
<crimsun> if people feel strongly to contribute only a certain amount and be recognised for it.
<sebner> folks. 7 minutes left. come to an end. please ;)
<LaserJock> if people are working towards becoming MOTU or a developer they have no place in the team, IMO
<LaserJock> *not working
<james_w> LaserJock: there have been many, many names proposed, and not one has had unanimous acceptance, so we need to come to a consensus.
<crimsun> is apprenticeship a prerequisite?
<LaserJock> I think that's what it should mean
<crimsun> I don't see why having a mentor is a prerequisite.
<LaserJock> MOTU is the mentor
<RainCT> what's about voting this in Launchpad?
<crimsun> doesn't that obviate needing "apprentice"?
<LaserJock> how so?
<crimsun> it's understood that MOTU is the mentor
<james_w> LaserJock: there may well be people who don't want to be MOTU, as there are extra responsibilities as well.
<geser> RainCT: do you really hope to get a better decision this way?
<LaserJock> james_w: and I don't think they should be in this team
<sistpoty> ok, this actually all doesn't bring us in any way forward to finding a name... should we shift topics first?
<james_w> LaserJock: not everyone feels the same way as you about that, and as I said, we need consensus.
<LaserJock> well, I do think nailing down what the purpose of this team is will go a long ways
<LaserJock> james_w: no, we don't need consensus
<LaserJock> :-)
<crimsun> consensus may be a bit overreaching.  At least a lot of people agreeing.
<james_w> heh
<LaserJock> everybody deciding the *wrong* thing doesn't do us any good
<james_w> sistpoty: do you have an alternative topic?
<LaserJock> we want consensus around a good decisions, right?
<james_w> LaserJock: yes
<LaserJock> k
<crimsun> LaserJock: given our representation, it's hardly fair.
<crimsun> there are far more MOTU here than non-MOTU.
<sistpoty> james_w: e.g. the meaning of the team or s.th.
<LaserJock> this is about MOTU
<crimsun> no, this is about people who may choose to pursue MOTU further.
<LaserJock> I would say this is about how MOTU wants to develop new MOTU
<james_w> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-motu/2008-April/003523.html
<LaserJock> this whole thing is about people getting MOTUship
<LaserJock> it was about requiring Ubuntu Membership for MOTUship
<james_w> at the last meeting there was broad agreement with this statement about what the team would be, although the specific criteria for joining were adjusted.
<LaserJock> so this team is supposed to be the MOTU equivalent of Ubuntu Membership, right?
<geser> but we shouldn't force people towards MOTU to let them keep the Ubuntu memmbership
<LaserJock> so I don't think it's a stretch to say it's about MOTU
<LaserJock> geser: they can go for Ubuntu Membership then
<LaserJock> no problems
 * sistpoty admits he totally failed in chairing the meeting
<LaserJock> we aren't preventing them from gaining Ubuntu Membership
<LaserJock> I really don't see the problem in limiting the scope of the team
<james_w> LaserJock: yes, but the MOTU council are the best ones to judge whether they have earned it, and this is the mechanism they will use.
<geser> LaserJock: who should grant it them? the regional boards?
<LaserJock> geser: the CC as always
<sebner> sistpoty: we should come to an end. time is up and next meeting will be the same ..
<james_w> LaserJock: how do you propose to enforce this requirement?
<crimsun> well, in retrospect, why not just choose what Emmet described in the e-mail?
<geser> LaserJock: the CC will stop granting membership and delegate this (afaik)
<LaserJock> geser: that's not true, as I understand it
<LaserJock> most will be delegated, but not all surely
<geser> oh, has it changed again? I might not be uptodate on it
<LaserJock> I don't know
<LaserJock> but it'd be ridiculous to do so
<LaserJock> james_w: which requirement?
<james_w> that people go on to become MOTU
<LaserJock> well, they don't *have* to
<LaserJock> but that'd be the point
<LaserJock> you don't have to enforce it
<james_w> so you wouldn't let someone in who said that they didn't intend to aim for MOTU, but you would if they lied about it?
<LaserJock> uh, yeah
<LaserJock> I guess so
<LaserJock> if they wanted to lie about it that's their problem
<LaserJock> I just don't know why you'd want to do that
<james_w> ok, how about someone who fully intends to go for MOTU, but then becomes more involved at work and doesn't have the time to contribute any more?
<LaserJock> fine
<LaserJock> I really don't care
<james_w> would you revoke their Ubuntu membership as they were no longer going for MOTU, or transfer them to another membership group perhaps?
<LaserJock> I just think the stated purpose of the team should be "on the way to MOTUship"
<LaserJock> no, I wouldn't
<LaserJock> if you don't want to be in a team anymore you leave
<LaserJock> eventually they would expire if they don't want to be a part of the team, etc.
<sistpoty> ok, now can we go back to the topic of finding a name please?
<james_w> sure, so we're a long way of track now
<james_w> sistpoty: yes please
<LaserJock> well, i don't think you can name a team you don't know the purpose of, but I won't stand in your way
<james_w> LaserJock: you say "don't know", but you seem to only have a problem with one small part, whether the focus is to get people to become MOTUs or not.
<LaserJock> well, there's more
<LaserJock> that's just the first one I hit on ;-)
<sistpoty> PLEASE. NAME. NOW. MEANING OF TEAM LATER!
<james_w> and I think the aim is to get people there, but I realise people may want to stop along the way.
<sistpoty> *me coughs from shouting*
<james_w> sistpoty: yes, sorry.
<sistpoty> ok, to what consensus of the name did we come so far
<james_w> are we going to stick with what we had?
<sistpoty> what did we have actually?
<sistpoty> s.th. with contributors in the name, imho the last proposal was univers-contributing-devs, right?
<sistpoty> +e somewhere
<LaserJock> are they developers?
<LaserJock> can they upload?
<LaserJock> what about just general people contributing?
<sistpoty> they contribute to the developers...
<LaserJock> those are my issues with that name
<LaserJock> but that says nothing to the "significant and sustained contribution to Universe"
<crimsun> they have and can continue to) contributed.
<sistpoty> LaserJock: then please make a better suggestion *with "contribute" in it*
<LaserJock> it's just anybody who's made a contribution
<LaserJock> and now "devs" means something more than upload rights
<LaserJock> which makes things a tad bit more muddled, IMO
<crimsun> LaserJock: no, I would say it's someone who has chosen to _come forward into Ubuntu_ and contribute to Ubuntu universe
<LaserJock> I wouldn't mind Universe Contributors
<crimsun> here I draw a distinction between DDs, DMs, etc., who have not chosen so
<LaserJock> the -devs is getting me
<sistpoty> so just "universe-contributors"? or is that too close to the current "ubuntu-universe-contributors"?
<sebner> sistpoty: too close. universe-supporters?
<LaserJock> sistpoty: I think that should change
<LaserJock> u-u-c should change
<sistpoty> sebner: you'r out :P
<LaserJock> because that's not what it means
<sebner> sistpoty: I see ^^
<LaserJock> it's a REVU permission team,  not people who contribute to Universe
<LaserJock> so ...
<crimsun> universe-contributing-heroes?  </tongue-in-cheek>
<LaserJock> not bad
<sistpoty> hm... might be not serious enough for some, but I won't object to any name right now actually ;)
<james_w> LaserJock: the objection to renaming it to revu-uploaders or similar is that we may want to re-use the team for something else later
<LaserJock> james_w: then have a different team
<geser> sistpoty: one more hour and you will be happy with ~ubuntu-hackers :)
<LaserJock> hah
<sebner> or motu-supporters xD
 * sistpoty is going bananas
<sistpoty> let's call it monkeys :)
<LaserJock> james_w: we need a team for REVU permission, plain and simple
<LaserJock> if we need something else we can create something else
<sistpoty> yes, the revu team is also a separate topic
<LaserJock> ok, so how about Universe Contributors then?
<LaserJock> can we vote on that?
<sistpoty> ok, let's do it
<sistpoty> [VOTE] Universe Contributors
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Universe Contributors.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<sistpoty> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from sistpoty. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<LaserJock> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from LaserJock. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<sebner> sistpoty: don't just vote +1 to come to an end ^^
<james_w> er, what are we voting for?
<LaserJock> james_w: Universe Contributors
<sebner> james_w: name
<geser> should this be the new name for ~ubuntu-hackers?
<sistpoty> team name "Universe contributors"
<sistpoty> geser: yes
<LaserJock> geser: yep
<james_w> we already had that didn't we?
<sebner> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from sebner. 2 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 2
<james_w> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from james_w. 3 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 3
<RainCT> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from RainCT. 4 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 4
<crimsun> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from crimsun. 5 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 5
<RainCT> but I think it clashes somewhat with ubuntu-universe-contributors
<geser> and how do we want to call the open team?
<LaserJock> ok, that's the second thing here
<LaserJock> we're cookin' now
<sistpoty> 3
<sistpoty> 2
<sistpoty> 1
<sistpoty> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 5 for, 0 against. 1 abstained. Total: 5
<james_w> we do need the lp id for this team though.
<sistpoty> wohoo, we finally found a name for the first team.. what do we want to discuss next?
<LaserJock> ok, the how about REVU Contributors for the old u-u-c?
<LaserJock> james_w: universe-contributors
<LaserJock> ?
<sebner> sistpoty: the new name for the old contributors team?
<crimsun> ~universe-contributors seems fine
<james_w> cool
<sistpoty> either name of the uploader team for revu (currently known as ubuntu-universe-contributors) or about the meaning of the team now known as universe-contributors?
<crimsun> after all, we do have ~motu
<LaserJock> I think we need to rename u-u-c now to avoid confusion
<LaserJock> sistpoty: right?
<sistpoty> [TOPIC] team name (and discussion) for current ubuntu-universe-contributors
<MootBot> New Topic:  team name (and discussion) for current ubuntu-universe-contributors
<sebner> contribution-beginners
<LaserJock> I would go with REVU Contributors or REVU Uploaders
<sistpoty> LaserJock: yes, we should do... now let's discuss that
<james_w> I think sebner -supporters would be good here.
<sistpoty> imo revu uploaders is fine for me as well... however there was a discussion to have that team also for other privileges in the future
<sebner> james_w: hmm for me supporters value more than contributors ...
<sistpoty> imo, since there is no current idea, for what this team can/will be used in the future, we should go with revu-uploaders and reconsider, *once* there is a concrete idea
<LaserJock> I think it's really a mistake to base the name of a present team with present purpose based on something we may or may not do in the future
<geser> sistpoty: is the plan to split the revu upload team and the open team or keep it one team?
<LaserJock> sistpoty: agreed
<sistpoty> geser: currently there is no real plan at all, just ideas what could theoretically be done in the future
<sebner> sistpoty: I have an idea ;) ^^
<james_w> I think there would be value in having one open team you join to get you all privileges you can have without clearing some barrier, and have an open team that people can join just because they like MOTU and would like to join in
<james_w> just like sebner did with the current u-u-c apparently.
<LaserJock> james_w: what would be the purpose of such a "fanboy" team?
<RainCT> james_w: and what would those privilegies be?
<james_w> LaserJock: some people just like it, and it reflects that there is a low barrier to entry, the first step really is open.
<persia> LaserJock: even without privileges, someone who puts up a couple packages and joins the team may then be be able to say they are part of something
<james_w> RainCT: I don't know I'm afraid.
<sebner> persia: heya. save us :)
<james_w> hi persia
<LaserJock> I think it's a big mistake, personally
<geser> Hi persia
<sistpoty> well, I dislike the idea of having a fanboy team actually. I guess you mainly get team collectors for that team then
<LaserJock> we don't need fanboy teams
<james_w> shall we just move this one to a vote?
<LaserJock> Universe Contributors should be a fairly low barrier
<sistpoty> hey persia, seems like we found at least a name for the hackers team *g+
<persia> LaserJock: The team that CC granted (voted above as Universe Contributors) must have the same level of commitment as any other Ubuntu Member.
<geser> sistpoty: we could start again now that persia is here *g*
<LaserJock> persia: sure, which is a low barrier
<sistpoty> heh
 * persia was abstaining previously anyway: I'm convinced it's bikeshedding to a certain degree.
<LaserJock> almost completely
<LaserJock> ;-)
<sistpoty> james_w: on what do we want to vote?
<LaserJock> but if we're gonna make up teams for the heck of it they oughta have good names ;-)
<sistpoty> heh
<james_w> whether to rename to team to something revu specific, or something general.
<sistpoty> ok, sounds like a good idea
<james_w> would one vote work? Negative means general, positive revu-specific?
<sistpoty> please vote with +1 to rename the current ubuntu-universe-contributors to something general, and -1 for s.th. revu-specific
<james_w> or that one :-)
<sistpoty> heh
<LaserJock> is the vote set up?
<sistpoty> [VOTE] rename the current ubuntu-universe-contributors to something general
<MootBot> Please vote on:  rename the current ubuntu-universe-contributors to something general.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<persia> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-motu/2008-April/003593.html are the agreed criteria.  Those shan't change.
<LaserJock> -1
<MootBot> -1 received from LaserJock. 0 for, 1 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -1
<james_w> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from james_w. 1 for, 1 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 0
<RainCT> -1
<MootBot> -1 received from RainCT. 1 for, 2 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -1
<sistpoty> [LINK] https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-motu/2008-April/003593.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-motu/2008-April/003593.html
<sistpoty> -1
<MootBot> -1 received from sistpoty. 1 for, 3 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -2
<persia> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from persia. 2 for, 3 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -1
<sistpoty> 3
<sistpoty> 2
<sistpoty> 1
<sistpoty> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 2 for, 3 against. 0 abstained. Total: -1
<LaserJock> the stated purpose of the team, btw is "This team holds all members, which may upload to revu"
<persia> LaserJock: That's just text.
<LaserJock> so, IMO, we're just fixing a misnaming in the first place ;-)
<sistpoty> ok, so we'll rename ubuntu-universe-contributors to a team to s.th. revu specific
<LaserJock> no, it's not
<LaserJock> it's the text that all the people in that team *agreed* to
<LaserJock> we can't just go around repurposing teams like that
<sistpoty> which we don't do now, even though the result was by a small minority
<persia> I'm happy with an entitlements team for REVU, but still think there ought be some open team to which interested new developers are encouraged to join, even without specific entitlements.
<LaserJock> IMO at least, which may not be worth a whole lot I realize
* ubotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 30 Apr 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 06 May 21:00 UTC: Community Council | 21 May 17:00 UTC: LoCo Council
<LaserJock> persia: what would be the point?
<persia> LaserJock: People can be part of the team?
<LaserJock> but they aren't
<sistpoty> ok, do we want to vote about having such a team as well?
<LaserJock> they're a part of the team "on paper" but it's basically meaningless
<sistpoty> OTOH I believe noone will hinder anyone from founding such a team
<LaserJock> I would push to have such a team removed if it wasn't approved by MOTU
<persia> Why not?  If someone new comes and gets their hands dirty, aren't they part of the team?  I think this happens before they have reached the criteria for membership in the new restricted group.
<LaserJock> but I might be just a tad cranky today
<LaserJock> I got through cleaning up a few such "open" teams
<LaserJock> they are worthless
<LaserJock> and I wish we could make them go away
 * persia wants membership to expire after a while, unless people are active
<LaserJock> why do you have to have an LP team to contribute
<LaserJock> this is ridiculous. teams are they for functions
<crimsun> LaserJock: you don't have to.
<geser> Hi norsetto
<norsetto> hi geser
<persia> You don't.  But having an LP team can give a shiny LP emblem, which is nice for people not already on many teams.
<crimsun> I plan to allow all my Ubuntu memberships to expire and continue to contribute.
<sebner> heya norsetto
<norsetto> heya sebner
 * sistpoty crosses thumbs that we don't have to restart the whole meeting now *g*
<sistpoty> hi norsetto
<norsetto> sistpoty: greetings master
<LaserJock> persia: but is that anything we really need
<LaserJock> are we going to lose *valuable* contributors because we don't have a MOTU fanboy team?
<persia> LaserJock: It's not something you or I need now.  It was something I liked when I was new, and I suspect other new people would like.
<crimsun> I thought you said it was about membership.
<crimsun> ^ LaserJock
<LaserJock> crimsun: please, clarify
<james_w> is there anything else to decide in this meeting? persia do you want to propose a new open team?
<crimsun> are we still discussing ~universe-contributors?
<LaserJock> oh, we don't have the name of the REVU team though
<LaserJock> crimsun: no
<sistpoty> crimsun: no, the old ubuntu-universe-contributors
<sistpoty> LaserJock: good point. how about revu-uploaders?
<LaserJock> sistpoty: I'm good with that
<LaserJock> my only concern was confusion with REVU Hackers type teams
<sistpoty> anyone objects to revu-uploaders... sebner? :P
<persia> james_w: Given the time, I'm just as happy doing that at another meeting, if there's a point.  On the other hand, as long as discussion is active, I don't see the point of stopping.
<crimsun> I'm fine with revu-uploaders.
<LaserJock> i.e. revu-uploaders shouldn't mean those who upload REVU code ;-)
<sebner> sistpoty: I don't mind ^^. But this is tooo revu specific
<james_w> persia: sure, it's just I'm the one writing up the minutes :-)
<persia> james_w: Ah :)
<crimsun> seriously, most of this discussion is just syntactic sugar.  Or salt.  Or hotpants or something.
<LaserJock> crimsun: but syntax means stuff
<sistpoty> ok, I guess we can agree on revu-uploaders, or does anyone prefer a vote?
<sistpoty> [AGREED] new team name for ubuntu-universe-contributors is revu-uploaders
<MootBot> AGREED received:  new team name for ubuntu-universe-contributors is revu-uploaders
<persia> sebner: Could you expand on that?  As one of the non-MOTU about, your opinions about U-U-C identity are likely most current.
<sebner> persia: too late
<sebner> ^^
<LaserJock> no
<sebner> sistpoty: damn you
<LaserJock> sebner: we can create a new team for you
<sistpoty> sebner: but we already voted, that it *should be revu-specific*
<LaserJock> I don't see the point
<persia> sebner: I think it's still useful information to share, even if we agree on the team name that has upload permission to REVU
<LaserJock> but we can do it :-)
<LaserJock> sebner:  u-u-c -> revu-uploaders should have happened long ago, but we can certainly discuss a new u-u-c like team
<sebner> persia: well. I know the old universe-contributors and the new name shows that was for REVU using. but I haven't used it yet but I'm happy to be in this team to show my ubuntu work. Doesn't matter now since I will jump to the new team
<sebner> LaserJock: 2 are enough ^^
<persia> sebner: OK.  To rephrase, can you explain why such a new open team is important to you?
<sebner> persia: I really like the idea. You start your ubuntu contributions with this beginner team and if you are more experienced you can join the advanced team with the nice goodies. last step before becomming a motu.
<sebner> hio ScottK
<geser> ScottK: we have just decided to rename the old u-u-c to revu-uploaders and are discussing right now if a new open team is needed
<persia> LaserJock: Does that make sense to you? (and try to remember when you were new)
<ScottK> Did we pick a team for people who are members via MC?
<persia> ScottK: "Universe Contributors"
<ScottK> Sounds reasonable.  Thanks.
<LaserJock> persia: it does but I see Universe Contributors as that team
<LaserJock> I'm not sure what a "0-barrier" team gets us
<sebner> persia: but as I said. I don't like the revu thing for the beginner team :)
<persia> LaserJock: It'll take 3-6 months to become a member of that team.  That's not quite so new anymore, in my opinion.
<geser> ScottK: if we don't vote a third time on the name :)
<sebner> persia: +1
<ScottK> ;-)
<sebner> geser: oh no xD
<LaserJock> persia: why does it take 3-6 months
<LaserJock> it should take 2
<sistpoty> persia: hm... 3-6 month, how long then to become a motu then?
<sebner> LaserJock: depends on how much do you contribute :P
<sebner> maybe 2-4
<persia> LaserJock: 3-6 has been the current standard for members from the CC.  I'm not opposed to 2.
<sebner> sounds better
<ScottK> Personally I don't see a need for any "Ooh I got another shiny team badge on my LP page" teams.
<persia> sistpoty: Depends on level of activity, mostly.  I'd say 3-24 would be a good range.
<sistpoty> persia: imho that would be a drastic step backwards, as then we'd be having a second kind of nm process (but maybe slower even?)
<persia> sistpoty: How do you mean?  With timeframes, I'm only meaning to express current defaults.
<persia> I add "24 months", as that was the time I took (about).
<sistpoty> persia: oh, you took that long? didn't know that
<sistpoty> ok, so do we want to agree or disagree or vote on anything yet?
<persia> sistpoty: Yep.  Not everyone has the time to get enough done quickly.  I might have gotten in about 3 months earlier, but didn't really have enough time at that point to do enough to deserve MOTUship.
<sistpoty> ah
 * RainCT goes to bed. good night all
<sebner> I heard geser needed 2 months :P
<sebner> gn8 RainCT
<sistpoty> ok, I guess since the discussion is actually shifting towards motu, and RainCT is going to bed, let's move on to the fixed agenda points, shall we?
<sebner> +1
<sistpoty> towards the motu channel even
<geser> sebner: 2 months for membership (via CC) and 2 months for MOTUship = around 4 months
<sebner> geser: may be record :)
<sistpoty> [TOPIC] next meeting
<MootBot> New Topic:  next meeting
<sistpoty> ok, meeting time's are fixed, right? so when's the next meeting?
<sistpoty> that'd be 2 weeks from now, and 24/3 hours later
<sebner> Are we finished and the agenda is empty now?
<sistpoty> sebner: yes
<james_w> sebner: there was only one item on the agenda
<sebner> great
<sebner> When can I join this team xD
<geser> sebner: which team? :)
<sebner> geser: xD xD xD
<sistpoty> so next meeting is 9th may, 8UTC, right?
<sebner> geser: contributors ;)
<geser> sistpoty: 4UTC
<sebner> uhh. bad time for me :\
<sistpoty> geser: right, I miscalculated *g*
<sistpoty> anyone volunteering to send out meeting announcemenets?
<sistpoty> -e
<sistpoty> anyone?
<sebner> sistpoty: /me
<sistpoty> [AGREED] sebner to send out meeting announcements
<MootBot> AGREED received:  sebner to send out meeting announcements
<sistpoty> thanks sebner:
<sebner> np
<sistpoty> anything else that should be discussed?
<sebner> sistpoty: and now you have to tell me when I can join xD
<sistpoty> :P
<sistpoty> 3
<sistpoty> 2
<sistpoty> 1
<sistpoty> [ENDMEETING]
<sistpoty> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 23:54.
<james_w> thanks sistpoty
<sistpoty> phew :)
<james_w> thanks everyone else
<sistpoty> thanks everyone for coming
<sebner> sistpoty: hey
<sebner> sistpoty: this was a serious question ;)
<sistpoty> sebner: which team do you refer to actually, and with the new or the old name?
<james_w> sebner: you can apply now.
<geser> can the MC use the old ~hackers team or still some discussion needed?
<sebner> sistpoty: of course our new team with the shiny goodies ;)
<sebner> james_w: so fast? MC ready to approve people?
<geser> the new name for it is "ubuntu contributors"?
<james_w> sebner: I didn't say that, but there is one application already.
<sistpoty> sebner: you can apply right now, not too sure when you can join though ;)
<sebner> james_w: that'S the motu team ;)
<geser> sebner: there is already one open application for that team
<sebner> Ok
<sebner> I'll update my wiki page and wait until it's renamed :D
<sebner> Thanks everybody
<sistpoty> geser: imo it's just renaming that team?
<geser> that's the question. I'm a little bit lost about the current status.
<persia> geser: From what I can tell, the new name is "Ubuntu Contributors", and it may be used.
<geser> good
 * persia thinks that "Ubuntu Contributors" obscures non-development contributions, but doesn't want to restart the discussion
<sebner> yeah
<sebner> meeting restart
<sebner> persia: isn't it universe contributors?
<sistpoty> sebner: feel free to restart the meeting... (I'm free now from chairing .... *gg*)
<sebner> hrhr
<geser> I guess that team is currently best known as ~ubuntu-hackers :)
<sebner> ^^
<sistpoty> fun is, that I'm still trying to debootstrap an i386 hardy chroot (started *before* the meeting)
<sebner> archives open again on 1st may right?
<sistpoty> sebner: are they?
<geser> sistpoty: slow mirror or slow cpu? debootstrap shouldn't usually take that long
<slangasek> hrm? where does that date come from?
<slangasek> they open again when the toolchain is in order
<persia> sebner: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ContributeToUbuntu
<sistpoty> geser: seems it uses a.u.c (instead of a mirror)
<sebner> sistpoty: Intrepid Release Shedule. Last edited by martin pitt
<james_w> sebner: there's a load of candidates SRUs for Hardy in the mean time.
<sebner> persia: ??
<sebner> james_w: nono. school for me. My last challenge =)
<sebner> maybe next weekend
<sebner> and tomorrow is hardy  reinstall party for me xD
<geser> reinstall?
<sebner> geser: I'm using it on this laptop since 5 months and ~20 days ^^
<sebner> time to reinstall
<sebner> some things are b0rken
<sebner> want to change partition stuff ....
<sebner> gn8 folks :)
<sistpoty> gn8 sebner
#ubuntu-meeting 2008-04-26
<macho99> irc.whiffle.org
#ubuntu-meeting 2009-04-20
<bodhi_zazen> back :)
<Snova> Good timing.
<LaRoza> bodhi_zazen: I heard you were elected to the Council?
<LaRoza> Congratulations
<bodhi_zazen> Thank you LaRoza :)
<jacob> one minute eh?
<LaRoza> bapoumba too. You too were always very patient, much more so than I.
<LaRoza> (You two)
<bapoumba> Hello LaRoza
<Snova> Oh, hi bapoumba. :)
<bapoumba> Hey Snova
<bodhi_zazen> lol
<LaRoza> Hello bapoumba. Congratulations to you also. I only learned of it when I went to the wiki last week
<forumsmatthew> FC roll call. Who's here?
<bapoumba> Thanks LaRoza
<bapoumba> .o/
<Technoviking> here on the IRC Satillite of Love
<forumsmatthew> let's wait a couple of more minutes to see if KiwiNZ and ubuntu-geek can make it.
<Suomalainen> Suomalainen here
<Technoviking> here is the agaenda
<Technoviking> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ForumCouncilAgenda
<bodhi_zazen> hey forumsmatthew :)
<bapoumba> Hello bodhi_zazen btw :D
<Rocket2DMn> i made it in time :)
<Technoviking> While we wait for our other member, I want to welcome our new FC members  bapoumba and bodhi_zazen
<bodhi_zazen> :p everyone
<bapoumba> Thanks Technoviking :)
<Technoviking> also, any of our new staff here that want to say hi
<ibuclaw> o/
<forestpixie> hi
<bodhi_zazen> and thank you Technoviking :)
<forumsmatthew> let's wait just a couple more minutes...
<forumsmatthew> yay!
<bodhi_zazen> schedule got full :)
<bodhi_zazen> hey ubuntugeek :)
<ubuntugeek> Hello, sorry I am late got pulled into a server problem :)
<forumsmatthew> okay, I don't think Kiwi is coming, so shall we get started?
<jdong> sure.
<bapoumba> hello u-g :)
<ubuntugeek> Yes, lets start
<forumsmatthew> TV already posted it, but here's the agenda link again
<forumsmatthew> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ForumCouncilAgenda
<Technoviking> LaRoza
<Technoviking> Lifting of ban previously imposed on the LaRoza account, or permission to make a new account
<LaRoza> Present
<forumsmatthew> let's hear it
<LaRoza> After my banning, I had not planned on trying to get it lifted
<LaRoza> But now, after some time (and a lot of changes in RL), I would like to be able to use the forum again
<LaRoza> At the time of my banning, I had forsaken my original purpose of using the forum (tech support). I had only used the PT section and the Cafe
<LaRoza> After looking at the forum for a support issue (someone talked to me on IRC and sent a link), I noticed a few changes (closing of Other OS talk for one) and I was wanting to go back to giving the tech support I used to give on the forum
<LaRoza> I do it still in RL for others (two new recent Ubuntu users) although I don't use Ubuntu anymore, it is the one I recommend to others
<ubuntugeek> The incident that lead to the ban broke just about every rule we have in place.
<LaRoza> Yes, I realise that now
<LaRoza> At the time, I didn't actually.
<LaRoza> (Which is why I didn't contest it, because I didn't understand)
<LaRoza> But I understand now
<LaRoza> It was very rude of me
<LaRoza> Although it was not my intention, one shouldn't tolerate someone so oblivious to other's feelings
<LaRoza> (Hence, the ban).
<forumsmatthew> You didn't realize that taking personal information off of a hard drive in a computer donated to you by a staff member and then using it to access that person's account (illegally) and then brag about it on IRC was somehow against the rules? (Not to mention basic courtesy?)
<jdong> "rude" wouldn't be my choice of terminology either...
<LaRoza> I didn't see it as that. I never intended to access the drive and it was an accident that led to it booting the HD, and another accident which led to being logged in
<LaRoza> I also wiped the drive right after and didn't even try to get any information off of it
<bodhi_zazen> may I suggest we not re-hash the indecent ? we all know what happened >:)
<LaRoza> (I didn't look at bookmarks or use the browser for anything else. It did however open with the UF logged in)
<forumsmatthew> where does the posting from someone else's account and bragging about it on irc fit into your claim of innocence?
<LaRoza> I didn't say I was innocent
<ubuntugeek> -1 from me, I believe in giving people chances, but I think the incident broke any trust I have.
<LaRoza> I said I wasn't malicious
<bapoumba> -1 here too
<forumsmatthew> we never thought you were malicious, just that you demonstrated terrible judgment and betrayed the trust placed in you
<LaRoza> Yes, I agree
<forumsmatthew> this after many discussions with you where we bent over backwards to try to help you, guide you, teach you, etc
<ubuntugeek> OK, I think we heard would the rest of the FC vote :)
<forumsmatthew> -1 from me
<LaRoza> guide and teach me?
<Technoviking> -1 here,
<bodhi_zazen> -1 from me also, although I would also say I am happy to see you have moved on LaRoza and wish you luck in your new ventures :)
<forumsmatthew> best wishes in real life
<LaRoza> Oh, one more thing
<LaRoza> You may have heard rumours about an account I use. That is false. Others made that up and they won't believe me when I say I don't use the forum...
<forumsmatthew> okay
<jdong> -1 from me based on the given statements...
<LaRoza> WOuld there have been anything I could have said to get +1?
<bapoumba> As of today ?
<forumsmatthew> unlikely, but there is always a chance. We listened
<ubuntugeek> Nothing from my perspective as of today, sorry.
<LaRoza> Er, I didn't know time was a factor, but I guess so
<bodhi_zazen> may I suggest we move on ? we have a full agenda ::)
<jdong> I don't exactly have a dictionary of criteria for that. Just what was said didn't move me. Not today.
<ubuntugeek> Lets move on
<forumsmatthew> Kiwi isn't here, so let's skip the next one
<forumsmatthew> is linuxisevolution here?
<bodhi_zazen> kk
<forumsmatthew> alright, next item then
<forumsmatthew> Eliminating post/bean count entirely, except in the database, or maybe only on profile pages and not on every post's info bar.
<forumsmatthew> we've talked about this a lot, but not done it
<forumsmatthew> what does everyone think?
<bodhi_zazen> +1, or at least hiding it
<Rocket2DMn> o/
<jdong> how will titles be handled?
<ubuntugeek> Last I remember there was a option to hide/show it.. Is that not working?
<bapoumba> +1, may be keep in profile (I'm undecided about that)
<jacob> ubuntugeek: nope
<Rocket2DMn> Why not re-enable the user's ability to hide it?
<bodhi_zazen> ubuntugeek: no , that option broke :(
<ubuntugeek> I'd rather fix that then remove it to be honest
<forumsmatthew> there is an option, but we had talked about removing the count entirely from public view by default
<forumsmatthew> okay
<Technoviking> -1 Prefer to keep the post count up, useless we could get the Thanks plugin working
<forumsmatthew> the titles shouldn't be affected at all
<jdong> originally my only motivation for having a postcount is for people to gauge the reputation of a person giving a response...
<jdong> and I don't see anything that would replace that.
<paultag> o/
<jdong> join date doesn't quite do the same thing and as Technoviking said, thanks is gone
<ubuntugeek> I think that post count is pretty irrelevant to ones knowledge, but I also think removing it will cause more drama then we want to deal with :) So giving the option seems the best way.
<forumsmatthew> I'm fine with that (actually don't have much of an opinion either way, but got tired of revisiting it) :)
<bapoumba> it would be nice to at least be able to hide again
<ubuntugeek> OK, I'll fix that
<bodhi_zazen> thanks :)
<paultag> Perhaps having a Karma system, where posts can be rated up and down would work. This open the option of people marking down for disagreeing, but karma would be a good way to watching users's reputations
<Technoviking> ubuntugeek: are we willing to try the Thank plugin again  with the new hardware, or will that be too much of a stain on the DB
<bapoumba> it broke with mast big software upgrade
<jdong> I'm +1 for users voluntarily being able to hide their own postcount.
<jdong> paultag: looking at digg/slashdot/etc IMO +1/-1 systems don't do what they're intended on doing
<forumsmatthew> jdong, +1 on hiding ability
<ubuntugeek> Technoviking: There is NO WAY I will put that plugin back on the forums.
<Technoviking> +1 on optional hiding
<ubuntugeek> +1 for optional hiding, I'll fix it this week.
<bapoumba> paultag, karma lead people to abuse it
<bapoumba> even the thanks were abused
<jacob> paultag: karma systems are used more for "I agree with this" rather than "this post was helpful" like it should be
<bodhi_zazen> +1 for hiding (assuming it is possible)
<forumsmatthew> we used to have karma enabled (a very long time ago). It didn't go well
<ubuntugeek> The thanks plugin was poorly written, it works well for small forums. However, a forum of our size and the way the plugin works causes to much strain on the database.
<bapoumba> +1 for hiding too
<forumsmatthew> okay, I think we have consensus. am I right?
<bodhi_zazen> Ah, that makes sense ubuntugeek
<ubuntugeek> yes, lets move on
<forumsmatthew> jacob, you here?
<jacob> forumsmatthew: yep
<jacob> tutorials & tips: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1119286
<jacob> or http://ubuntu.pastebin.com/f171557d2 for non-staff
<jacob> tl;dr: Tutorials & Tips should have a subforum visible only to staff and the OP for work-in-progress tutorials.
<jacob> This would greatly reduce confusion between on-the-line tutorials and communication with the OP.
<jacob> dmizer had another idea to the tutorials & tips problem at the end of that thread, linked from the first post
<bapoumba> I agree that something needs to be done to the T&T approval process
<forumsmatthew> if I understand the proposal correctly, and there is no guarantee of that, then the change would not actually fix the date issue on the tutorial posts, would it?
<bodhi_zazen> T&T is a huge topic :)
<jacob> it's quite a beefy post about it, but I don't think T&T is really as simple as it is right now
<jacob> forumsmatthew: it would not fix that (if you mean the bumping issue)
<forumsmatthew> precisely
<jacob> I still don't know how to work around that
<jacob> staff could give posts a bump once approved, I suppose
<jacob> which would work well with any system in place
<bodhi_zazen> I was going to suggest we encourage people to use the wiki and / or try to get a dedicated team on T&T
<bodhi_zazen> I think our user base is more sophisticated and tutorials are more complex now
<jacob> bodhi_zazen: yeah, but it's a lot more difficult to get people to post on the wiki if you know what I mean
<bodhi_zazen> It seems to me we almost need to have 2 staff review submissions
<bapoumba> and it needs to be "headed" by Staff too
<forumsmatthew> the wiki is a great idea. I'm not sure we would be successful at convincing people to post on it (there was a concerted effort directed at that some years ago that didn't go well). It might be good to develop a T&T team
<ubuntugeek> forumsmatthew: +1
<jacob> forumsmatthew: that's dmizer's idea, which definitely makes sense
<jdong> I'd really like T&T to be a wiki based feature....
<jdong> with some discussion mechanism linking back to the forums.
<bapoumba> I'm sure there is a need for a T&T team
<jdong> the forums are great for discussions. The wiki is great for maintainable guildes.
<jdong> guides*
<jacob> jdong: it would be nice, but getting people to actually do it is a different story
<bapoumba> couls also bring the T of the week back on tracks
<ubuntugeek> Sorry all I have to step out for another meeting. See you all!
<bodhi_zazen> We could team -> transition to wiki ?
<jacob> bye ubuntugeek
<forumsmatthew> bye, u-g
<bapoumba> bye ubuntugeek :)
<bapoumba> too late..
<jacob> bodhi_zazen: definitely possible, though it would take quite a large amount of work
<sdennie> jdong: Having written a number of tutorials, I really prefer to have them on the forums.  The interactive nature of it helps a lot in refining the tutorial.
<bodhi_zazen> I think people are willing to wiki if they are taught how to wiki , thus there is some effort with that too
<ibuclaw> sdennie++
<forumsmatthew> bodhi_zazen, that was done internally once with a project we called the UDSF (ask compiledkernel). If we get volunteers to train people to use the official wiki, it might work
<jacob> the wiki doesn't allow us to moderate tutorials for that matter, but that might not be relevant since they would be on a different site
<bodhi_zazen> I am not sure about eliminating T&T, rather promoting wiki as well
<forumsmatthew> I like having the content on the forums, though
<forumsmatthew> if produced by forums people, they generally feel more comfortable here
<forumsmatthew> moving them to the official wiki would connect us to the greater community, though, and certainly be appreciated (hopefully...)
<jdong> sdennie: well I hope that the interactive part can be captured in a discussion thread
<jdong> sdennie: I think this is one of those cases that needs a hybrid approach.
<jacob> bodhi_zazen: +1, I would definitely like to se an effort to copy/move some to the wiki, though IMO they should stay in T&T
<bodhi_zazen> I am not sure about moving posts to wiki
<bapoumba> forums people usually like and prefer writing on forums :)
<bodhi_zazen> but wiki has a number of advantages and we should use those as well
<bapoumba> or they would already wiki their production
<ShadowChild> bapoumba, +1
<sdennie> jdong: Possibly.  A wikipedia style approach with the content and discussion would work but, it doesn't really address that a lot of the tutorials are very technical in nature and questions, rather than discussion arise.
<bodhi_zazen> I like t&t on the forums though, and I do not see eliminating that section
<Technoviking> I like keeping T&T but prompted publishing items there to the wiki
<Rocket2DMn> The advantage of having posts on the forums is that they can easily fade away when they are no longer applicable - its obvious how old they are
<ibuclaw> jdong, I think people just feel an overall "more relaxed" about posting tutorials on the forums in general... As opposed to when using wiki, there is an uncomfortable formalness around everything you do.
<forumsmatthew> this is what I am hearing: the current system isn't ideal and we want to do something to help it. We don't really think that the main idea would be helpful, but getting a team together to make it more efficient might. Possibly using some sort of collaboration with the wiki team would be good, too.
<jacob> ibuclaw: agreed
<Rocket2DMn> I love the wiki, but stuff tends to get abandoned there when not maintained
<forumsmatthew> Rocket2DMn, yep
<bodhi_zazen> +1 forumsmatthew :)
<bapoumba> forumsmatthew, we used to have K.Mandla take care of most of it :)
<bapoumba> and it worked well
<bapoumba> because they spent a lot of time for T&T
<bodhi_zazen> I think we should make a collaborative effort
<jdong> Rocket2DMn: the asme thing happens with forum howto's
<forumsmatthew> my opinion: I would rather look for someone willing to head up sorting through T&T regularly and who will develop a team to work alongside them
<jacob> forumsmatthew: +1 - though should we do anything about the moderation in T&T right now if we're to be encouraging posting on the wiki?
<jdong> Rocket2DMn: the wiki IMO makes it easier to maintain but that doesn't mean people will do it
<Rocket2DMn> yes jdong , but like i said, you can easily see their age just by looking at the date
<jdong> forming a team around it is probably a better idea.
<jdong> Rocket2DMn: the wiki is similarly marked at the bottom of each page
<Rocket2DMn> jdong, only for the latest update to the page, which doesnt really mean anything
<forumsmatthew> I don't want to change the moderation for now. Let's see if a leader emerges and a team develops and revisit the issue once that is in place
<bodhi_zazen> I think it has grown to be too large for just one person, let along the depth of technical knowledge in some of them :)
<bapoumba> bodhi_zazen, +1
<bodhi_zazen> And that is really the problem
<bapoumba> we need several persons to take care of it
<jacob> right
<bapoumba> I am guilty as can be..
<bodhi_zazen> we need a team and process to review T&T with regularity
<sdennie> I like the team idea too
<bapoumba> (I only move out support questions..)
<jacob> same
 * jdong agrees with the team idea
<forumsmatthew> proposal: one FC member steps up now and takes responsibility for leading the search for a team leader, helping them understand what we are thinking, and we go from there
<bodhi_zazen> How about setting a goal, weekly thread on T&T in the que and we can see how the team develops ?
<Rocket2DMn> You could do a T&T Hug Day, like they do for bugs :)
<jacob> forumsmatthew: sounds good, anything to clean it up from what it is now :)
<jacob> Rocket2DMn: heh, that could actually work
<ibuclaw> Rocket2DMn, haha
<bapoumba> but the current T&T, before approval, are hidden
<bapoumba> so it needs to be a staff team?
<forumsmatthew> jacob, not yet, let's start slowly and see where each change takes us. We know what we have to deal with as things are. Let's only introduce unknowns slowly as we move on
<bapoumba> or do we revisit the status of T&T section ?
<forumsmatthew> we could make it a non-staff team that gets mod abilities in just that forum
<jacob> forumsmatthew: right - that's fine, I would just like to see it get cleaned up eventually
<forumsmatthew> me to
<bapoumba> yeah, +1
<forumsmatthew> do we have a consensus?
<bapoumba> I think so
<bodhi_zazen> no, just some good ideas :)
<bapoumba> eheh :)
<forumsmatthew> shall we start by finding a leader? and if so, who will be responsible to head that search and report to the FC so we can move ahead?
<bodhi_zazen> I think start by asking for volunters from the staff, of people willing to dedicate so much time / week on T&T ?
<bodhi_zazen> 1-2 hours ?
<bodhi_zazen> that will generate a team -> go from there
<jacob> I might be able to get something going
<Rocket2DMn> lol, Staff Focus Group
<jacob> Rocket2DMn: :P
<Rocket2DMn> those not on the BT didnt understand :(
<Snova> Ha.
<jacob> Rocket2DMn: who isn't on BT these days? ;)
<forumsmatthew> sounds good to me. use the staff forum, jacob, to start the discussion with others who aren't here, and we will let you head up the development
<forumsmatthew> all in favor?
<forumsmatthew> +1
<bapoumba> some people resist the BT ;)
<bodhi_zazen> +1
<Technoviking> +1
<bapoumba> +1
<sdennie> I've neglected my duties in T&T but, would be willing to spend some more time there.  ibuclaw would also be another good person.
<Rocket2DMn> give all the work to jacob +1 :)
<jacob> sounds good ;)
<forumsmatthew> jdong?
<bapoumba> I think dmizer should be interested too
<jacob> bapoumba: definitely
<jdong> ack sorry
<jdong> +1
<bodhi_zazen> cal also ;P
<forumsmatthew> great! let's move on to our last item--congrats, jacob!
<forumsmatthew> suomalainen, are you here?
<bapoumba> congrats jacob :)
<jacob> heh, thanks
<Suomalainen> yes I'm here.
<forumsmatthew> what's going on?
<bodhi_zazen> and what do you expect from the forums ?
<forumsmatthew> how can we help you?
<Suomalainen> I created a thread called "Skype Video Screen not functioning properly." which got some good responses. but then i started to receive responses saying I said things that I never said and I made note of that to the posters.
<Suomalainen> Also, I'd like to say thank you for asking me to come here today  to speak.
<forumsmatthew> did you report the posts? (You can do so to alert staff to problems by pressing the button that looks like this http://ubuntuforums.org/images/buttons/report.gif )
<bodhi_zazen> Suomalainen: when that happens, rather then argue with people, just report the post
<Technoviking> Suomalainen: I read though both the Skype post and xo.org post. While some of forums members who responded to your post could have been more tactful
<forumsmatthew> I do see where staff stepped in at post 20 and asked everyone to calm down, not to make personal attacks or debate those attacks, and to keep a professional attitude.
<forumsmatthew> is there something else you would have liked for someone to have done?
<Technoviking> I think you blew their comments our of proportion.
<bodhi_zazen> Suomalainen: I would also like to point out you are asking about 3rd party applications / hardware
<Suomalainen> I did use the button to report post.
<forumsmatthew> great! that would explain why a forum staff member stepped in to calm the situation
<Suomalainen> Also, when I'm told my country doesn't use english as PRIMARY language,,,  well........
<forumsmatthew> that is an excellent first step
<bodhi_zazen> and when those 3rd party apps / hardware do not work as you expect, you appear to rant @ the ubuntu community ;)
<jdong> Suomalainen: you don't have to respond to such inappropriate insulting statements towards you. Ignore them, report them, etc and we will deal with it
<jdong> Suomalainen: engaging the trolls always makes things escalate
<forumsmatthew> that was before the staff member stepped in the first time
<bodhi_zazen> not that that is a wrong attitude, it just causes "flame wars" so to speak
<Suomalainen> The post for help from mod wasn't made at that time.
<forumsmatthew> he posted after the remark that you were unhappy about. Then, you posted a long response that wasn't pleasant, so he stepped in again
<forumsmatthew> I'm reading the thread now
<Suomalainen> I like Ubuntu very much and I advocate to others Ubuntu. I was told that I back slapped the Ubuntu community and this is entirely untre.
<Suomalainen> untre=untrue.
<forumsmatthew> you took great offense to a comment that should not have been made, but your reaction is excessive. Someone came to your defense to calm the situation. It was being dealt with.
<forumsmatthew> question, Suomalainen: do you have a second user account on the forums named lentomies?
<bapoumba> Suomalainen, may I ask you if you have other accounts on UF ?
<bapoumba> Lol !
<Suomalainen> When you read my post others came to offer me help. Genuine help. I used this help and said thank you and reported my results. But then the make believe came into play and things were said about me and what I said that just should not have been stated.
<Suomalainen> Yes I have another account the user is Lentomies.
<forumsmatthew> and, as I stated, a staff member had intervened
<Suomalainen> When you research that accout it is rarely used.
<forumsmatthew> it is forbidden by the code of conduct for members to have more than one account. which do you want to keep?
<bodhi_zazen> Well, I have also reviewed the posts and I must say I found some of your posts to be informatory as well Suomalainen :)
<bapoumba> you know we do not allow users have several accounts, do you ?
<bodhi_zazen> I see several people offering you advice as well
<forumsmatthew> "inflammatory" is what I think bapoumba meant
<Suomalainen> With Your permission I would like to keep my Suomalainen account if acceptable.
<forumsmatthew> that would be fine. I'll disable the other account
<forumsmatthew> back to the real issue: a staff member intervened. What more did you want to happen?
<jdong> Suomalainen: In addition, you mentioned that you've attempted to reach us but attempts have "only fallen on deaf ears" in your words. I'm a bit concerned about that -- how did you try to reach us?
<Suomalainen> And then I made another thread called "Are you an XORG.CONF file Expert???" and these guys follow me to here too and recall issues that happenen in this original post.
<bodhi_zazen> I think things will go well with you Suomalainen if you try not to over react to the bad behavior of others, ie do not make a bad situation worse, and report bad behavior, ie allow the staff to handle bad behavior
<forumsmatthew> you haven't answered my question
<forumsmatthew> I'll discuss the second thread after you answer the question about the first
<Suomalainen> I tried to reach nmoderators as this situation was occuring using the "report" button but nobody contacted me or came to my aid. Please go into my account and see.
<bapoumba> we have your reports, no problem
<forumsmatthew> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1121621
<bodhi_zazen> I have to get to another meeting :)
<forumsmatthew> bye, bodhi_zazen
<bapoumba> cheers bodhi :)
<bapoumba> most of the reports were discussed in the staff report area
<Suomalainen> forumsmattew. I apologise. Could you please repeat the question?
<forumsmatthew> I see lots of polite and helpful responses. Then, in post 8 you rudely imply that no one helping you is adequate. A staff member posted to this effect in post 10
<bapoumba> and other reports were regarding your own posts, do you realize that ?
<forumsmatthew> and gives you more good advice
<bodhi_zazen> I will add that I think you are over reacting Suomalainen on the xorg thread
<forumsmatthew> instead of discussing the issue, you disappear as you did in the first thread
<bodhi_zazen> I do not see any bad behavior by others on that thread, only attempts to help you and some good advice
<bapoumba> no follow up, no indication the offered solutions worked or not
<forumsmatthew> your reports were seen, but you were the one who was determined to be impatient and less than polite
<forumsmatthew> what did you want us to do to help you?
<forumsmatthew> that is the same as the previously unanswered question on the first thread
<forumsmatthew> how do you perceive that we failed you?
<Suomalainen> YOu lost me. Please back up and tell me where we are....
<forumsmatthew> what should have been done that was not done?
<forumsmatthew> In either case, what were you expecting to happen that did not happen?
<forumsmatthew> what reasonable thing could/should staff have done to help you that was not done?
<forumsmatthew> I'm rephrasing repeatedly for clarity to make sure you know what I am asking.
<forumsmatthew> We are listening. We listened earlier. What help did you want or expect that was not forthcoming?
<Suomalainen> In my original post. Iasked for help and got some good ideas. I reported those results and thanked the poster. But when my words are taken out of contexts or I'm told that I said something that wasn't said and then country is brought into the fold, well......
<forumsmatthew> that was dealt with when the staff member posted in the thread in post 20
<forumsmatthew> what MORE did you want him/us to do?
<jdong> you've told us that several times, but that doesn't answer forumsmatthew's question.
<jdong> what specifically did you expect the staff to have done, and what was done instead?
<forumsmatthew> you are acting hurt. I'm sorry you feel hurt. But your anger is misdirected. We came to your aid.
<forumsmatthew> unless there is something new to add, I'm not sure there is anything else we need to do/discuss here.
<Suomalainen> How could I go on with that post when it went the direction it did. I left it because nobody would want to read it. I tried asking to have line items deleted but I never heard from anyone.
<bapoumba> you were expecting we edit the posts, am I correct ?
<forumsmatthew> the posts were dealt with. They didn't require deletion. The thread was still active and help was ready for you. You left
<Suomalainen> and then my other posts were taken over by same persons and they state to world things not true.
<forumsmatthew> no, that is not accurate. you may believe it, but I don't see what you are describing at all.
<forumsmatthew> I see helpful people giving advice and you freaking out
<jdong> I see a person stating that he was frustrated he attempted to provide detailed help and got a reply asking for an "expert" to respond.
<Suomalainen> I ask specific question xorg.conf file and then told things that don't even have to do with my question.
<Suomalainen> And if advice is offered I'm not even told what running such commnds means.
<jdong> I didn't see you ask about that?
<bapoumba> I went back to reading threads, and you had goods advices given to you
<Suomalainen> I would not use advice coming from  a person that say's I mada a statement that never was said. I would not use advice that is coming from person thinking his language is better than mind. How do you trust?????
<forumsmatthew> I reread the threads, people were giving on-topic, applicable advice to you
<forumsmatthew> I'm going to say this as gently as a text-only medium will allow: I think you have trust issues, I think you are easily offended, and I think those are the cause of the problem.
<forumsmatthew> Sorry, I don't see anything that the staff did wrong here.
<Suomalainen> making thinkd up is not a way of doing business or using advice.... You need to be fearful under such circumstances.
<forumsmatthew> I disagree with the premise, so the conclusion is one I cannot accept
<Technoviking> Suomalainen: This is community support, people volenteer there time to help other users on the forums out of a love for Ubuntu.
<bapoumba> I would say that you started what is a small issue
<Suomalainen> These guys were making things up. It's in black and white. You don't see this?
<bapoumba> all was good up to one post of yours
<Technoviking> it is not perfect solution, but it work very well in most cases.
<Suomalainen> Are you kidding me?
<sdennie> Suomalainen: As a general rule, I think it's ok to distrust advice you don't understand.  If you don't understand it, ask for an explanation of it.  If one isn't given, you can try to figure out the advice or continue to distrust it.
<Suomalainen> Things were being said that I never said... This is were the problems started to come from. Then the attack on country.... Not to warm spirit.....
<Technoviking> Suomalainen: If you are not getting support that works for you in the Ubuntu Forums, or can try the irc support channel #ubuntu and launchpad answer
<jdong> After reading through your post history and the responses you solicited, along with the reported post queues, I agree with matthew.
<Technoviking> https://answers.launchpad.net/
<forumsmatthew> good suggestion
<Technoviking> Different channel resources work better for different people.
<forumsmatthew> I vote we move end the meeting with a statement of resolution. All who feel the matter resolved give a +1
<forumsmatthew> +1
<Technoviking> Suomalainen: You may want to check out you local Ubuntu Loco team, maybe someone local could help you better
<Technoviking> +1
<Suomalainen> So Your telling me that I can't use Ubuntu forum because these guys will be allowed to invade my posts. Threaten me.. and nothing I can do about it?????
<bapoumba> +1
<bapoumba> noone threatened you Suomalainen
<forumsmatthew> you aren't banned. alternatives were suggested that you may feel more comfortable using since you don't feel comfortable with the help in the forums
<jdong> who is threatening you?
<Suomalainen> oh really. Did you read the post the second thread?????
<jdong> yes. I did.
<bapoumba> yes
<jdong> you openly ignored someone's advice and asked for an "expert" instead
<jdong> frankly you were the one displaying a disrespectful attitude.
<Technoviking> Suomalainen: You can use the forums, but you need understand that the forums are open to discussion
<Suomalainen> That was different topic.
<forumsmatthew> we are going in circles. back to the vote. We have three +1s
<bapoumba> Suomalainen, I will quote one of the persons you are thinking were not correct with you: I don't get you - people try to help and you jump all over them.
<jdong> You also aggressively chose to undermine the documented community processes for dealing with these conflicts
<ubuntugeek> +1
<jdong> and I am still fairly dissatisfied with that.
<jdong> +1.
<forumsmatthew> okay. thanks everyone for your time
<forumsmatthew> it is appreciated
<forumsmatthew> I'll clean up the wiki agenda page now
<forumsmatthew> bye, all!
<bapoumba> bye :)
<ShadowChild> Bye.
<ubuntugeek> See ya you all..
<winrid> Hello
<winrid> Is the meeting over?
<ScottK> Yes
<winrid> Damn
<winrid> Did they discuss me?
<ScottK> Dunno.  Check irclogs.ubuntu.com.
<winrid> Sorry I was late but I was busy and didn't pay attention to the time...
<Snova> Are you linuxisevolution?
<winrid> Yes
<Snova> No.
<winrid> ?
<Snova> http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2009/04/20/%23ubuntu-meeting.html
<Snova> You weren't here, so...
<bittin^`> Are there an Ubuntu Events / Meeting Mailinglist?
<winrid> Snova: did they have a discussion about me or was I not even mentioned?
<Snova> winrid: They asked if you were here; you weren't, they moved on. Should be in the logs.
<bittin^`> 21:20	forumsmatthew	is linuxisevolution here?
<bittin^`> 21:20	bodhi_zazen	kk
<bittin^`> 21:21	forumsmatthew	alright, next item then
<winrid> I see...
<winrid> When is next meeting?
<Snova> They aren't set.
<winrid> ahh
<Snova> When there is one, this page will be updated: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ForumCouncilAgenda
<winrid> How often do they happen?
<Snova> I suggest you subscribe to it.
<Snova> No idea.
<winrid> I can't subscribe I am banned from forums. That's why I am here.
<Snova> If you subscribe to that page, you'll be notified when it is changed, so you'll get an email eventually for their next meeting.
<Snova> wiki page, not forum thread.
<bittin^`> then you must done something?
<winrid> oh
<winrid> My mistake
<bittin^`> or does Ubuntu Forums ban ppl by no reason :o
<Snova> Just need a wiki user... which I believe is tied into Launchpad login, not sure.
<winrid> bitten^: They ban people for reasons, yes, but for odd reasons sometimes
<bittin^`> ;o
<Snova> bittin^`: Oh sure, they pick random user ID's out of a roulette wheel when they're bored. :)
<bittin^`> i never been active on the international Ubuntu Forums
<bittin^`> only the swedish ones
<winrid> What happened was I posted an insulting image by accident, my mother told me to go to bed, and I couldn't fix it until morning. By then I was already banned.
<winrid> Snova & Bitten^: No, only me :)
<Snova> Something like that would probably be reversed, but I can't say. Just subscribe to the page, I guess.
<winrid> Thanks
<winrid> I was working on my novel and time just flies...
<winrid> I have the page bookmarked
<Snova> Yes, but then you have to check it. :P More reliable to subscribe to it; you just get a few emails now and then.
<Snova> Also, if you forget to check it, even for a few days... I only got the meeting notice one or two days ago.
<bittin^`> its always fun to been in Linux meetings :)
<bittin^`> are there an Mailing List for all Ubuntu Events or should i add the Google Calender(?)
<winrid> K i subscribe
<winrid> Oh, I was already subscribed
<winrid> Does everyone here use Ubuntu? I find that hard to believe for some reason..
<Snova> Given the fact that there are 134 people in here, I doubt it. Also, this is an official meeting channel, so hush. :P
<winrid> Oh, right..
<bittin^`> i actully more use Kubuntu
<bittin^`> nowdays
<Snova> Same thing, different DE.
<winrid> I think the admins are long gone though.. :(
<bittin^`> Snova: true tough
<Snova> Oh, they cleared out fast. :)
<winrid> Snova: I know
<bittin^`> tough i use many distros
<bittin^`> on diffrent computers :p
<winrid> Me too
<winrid> Windows is on my calculator
<winrid> lol well I call it my foot stool/ calculator
<bittin^`> i use Kubuntu at my grand parents place
<winrid> Must be Grand.
<bittin^`> used alot off Ubuntu some years when i was new to Linux tough
<winrid> A lot of people do.
<bittin^`> for 1-2years tough its not my first distro
<winrid> I actually think Pclinuxos Is better with the gui configurations and stuff... But Ubuntu is getting there.
<bittin^`> my first was OpenSuse
<winrid> My first was Ubuntu 6.10 that I bought from Ebay while looking for winxp
<bittin^`> u bought Ubuntu :o
<winrid> Yes
<winrid> I didn't know what it was at the time, I just knew it was better than Windows ME.
<bittin^`> :)
<bittin^`> but windows me sux :(
<winrid> You suck windows :-/
<winrid> ?
<bittin^`> huh(?)
<winrid> You said "windows me sux"
<bittin^`> windows ME*
<bittin^`> lol
<winrid> oh lol
<bittin^`> ah
<nhandler> winrid and bittin^`: Could you please move this discussion to a different channel? This channel is meant for meetings, and many people log this channel
<winrid> Sorry
<bittin^`> yes #ubuntu-offtopic sounds like a good channel
<winrid> Not many people are on here. I go, sorry.
<winrid> Meet you there bittin
<bittin^`> sorry
<bodhi_zazen> Thanks Snova and bittin^` ;)
<bodhi_zazen> if you see winrid again , yes he can subscribe to the wiki, lol
<Snova> Apparently he already was...
#ubuntu-meeting 2009-04-21
<yann2> hello :) is the community council scheduled for today taking place?
<dholbach> yann2: yes, in 2h
<dholbach> yann2: do you have an agenda item?
<yann2> ok :) there is supposed to be a 3-months review for companies subscribing to the planet, it's been nearly 4 months now for us - do you think I can add that to the agenda for reviewing?
<dholbach> yann2: sure
<yann2> I added it to the agenda
<dholbach> yann2: super
<dholbach> hello everybody
<davmor2> dholbach: hello
<dholbach> hi elmo
<dholbach> sabdfl is on his way afaik
<elmo> is Yann here?
<elmo> I believe his item is the only thing on the agenda
<dholbach> yann2 was around earlier
<yann2> I am :)
<dholbach> hola sabdfl, como estas? :-)
<sabdfl> atlichna
<dholbach> we have an agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda and one agenda item
<dholbach> yann2: "3-months review of Oxford Archaeology's blog on Planet Ubuntu" - your stage :)
<yann2> there is supposed to be a three month review for companie's blogs aggregated on the planet, so it's been nearly 4 months :)
<sabdfl> yann2: i saw you added that today, right?
<yann2> feed is http://blogs.thehumanjourney.net/oaubuntu/
<yann2> sabdfl > yeah, a bit late, just wanted to check for the next meeting, and it happened to be today
<sabdfl> thank you!
<yann2> can report to next meeting if needed
<sabdfl> any comments from community folks that you think should be considered in the review?
<dholbach> yeah, that's what interested me too - how was the feedback you got?
<yann2> dholbach > depends on the post - usually positive
<yann2> to quite negative on some subjects
<yann2> (but mostly on technical issues)
<yann2> some people seem not to like ubuntu's approach to kvm :)
<dholbach> yann2: what were the reasons for the negative feedback?
<yann2> mmh, http://blogs.thehumanjourney.net/oaubuntu/entry/kvm_84_in_hardy_how for example
<dholbach> ok, so not necessarily bad feedback on the blog or the particular blog posts themselves?
<yann2> not really, I think we're doing quite fine so far :P but it's up to you te decide
<sabdfl> that looks reasonable
<sabdfl> people often have different views technically, but there's nothing here that raises concerns about the blog on planet
<sabdfl> cc?
<sabdfl> ok, i'll vote +1
<dholbach> I personally don't have any issues with the blog at all, I think the frequency of posts is alright, the ones I read were well-written
<dholbach> +1 from me too
<sabdfl> i don't think this needs quorum, it's just a review
<sabdfl> yann2: so thank you for being a good pioneer :-)
<sabdfl> is that a wrap?
<elmo> +1 from me too
<yann2> yay :) thx
<sabdfl> thanks elmo - yet another fan of kvm :-)
<yann2> am online most of the time anyway, you know who to ping if one of my colleagues goes across the line :P
<sabdfl> any other business?
<sabdfl> let's give it a minute
<sabdfl> yann2: in the interim, how is kvm in jaunty looking?
<yann2> sabdfl > more interested in the bacport for hardy to be fair
<sabdfl> ok
<sabdfl> i think that's a wrap, thank you all
<yann2> should be the same version as far as I understood :)
 * dholbach will update the team report
<dholbach> thanks yann2, thanks everybody else
<sommer> :-)
<ttx> o/
<ttx> Who is around for the server team meeting ?
<zul_> hello
 * sommer <-- this guy
<nijaba> o/
<nealmcb> \o
<soren> o/
<ttx> Your regular host is travelling today so I'll do the usual bad mathiaz ersatz
<ttx> OK, let's start
<ttx> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 10:02. The chair is ttx.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<ttx> Welcome to the always amazing Ubuntu Server team meeting.
<ttx> Today's agenda is available at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting
 * ttx reloads to doublecheck nothing specific was just added
<ttx> [TOPIC] Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<MootBot> New Topic:  Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<ttx> Only unofficial ACTIOn item was the bug 360689 review by ivoks
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 360689 in amavisd-new "Default Ubuntu configuration is backscatter source in Jaunty" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/360689
<ttx> Which is now in Fix Released state
<dendrobates> ivoks doen't seem to be here, so ...
<ttx> Anything else from last meeting someone wants to bring up ?
<kirkland> o/
<ttx> kirkland: yes ?
<kirkland> ttx: sorry, late "i'm here"
<ttx> Ah :)
<ttx> Then, let's proceed to today's hot topic
<ttx> [TOPIC] Jaunty release
<MootBot> New Topic:  Jaunty release
<ttx> So we are now very very close to Jaunty release date, I hope there is no hidden issue someone wants to bring up ?
<ttx> ISO testing is in full swing, please help if you can, especially if you own real hardware (as KVM-based testing is quite well covered already)
<ttx> The "Virtualization host" test on ubuntu Server amd64 is not covered yet
<kirkland> ttx: i was trying to free up some hardware to do that
<kirkland> ttx: but my spare box is running hardy + kvm-84, and i don't really want to reimage that at this point
<dendrobates> ttx: we also need to test the minimal install.
<kirkland> ttx: so i echo your call
<dendrobates> ttx: you select it using F4
<kirkland> dendrobates: i can do that in a VM
<ttx> dendrobates: I did the two "virtual machine install" ones
<ttx> dendrobates: aka "jeOS on KVM"
<kirkland> ttx: i was also going to do the virtual-host one, using nested kvm
<dendrobates> ttx: did the instructions get updated?
<ttx> dendrobates: 2009-02-25 23:10:25 by mathiaz
<ttx> not exactly sure that answers your question though
<ttx> dendrobates: does 20090421.1 shape up to be the final respin, from where you stand ?
<dendrobates> ttx: I'll check, and fix if necessary
<dendrobates> ttx: yes, I've done a couple dozen installs the last two days with no errors
<ttx> Okay. Anything else on the Jaunty release front ?
<ttx> then...
<ttx> [TOPIC] Ideas for Karmic
<MootBot> New Topic:  Ideas for Karmic
<ttx> i'll echo last week call for ideas, feel free to fill https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/IdeaPool with your thoughts
<ttx> If that's something more complex or advanced than an idea, you can also submit a blueprint and subscribe the ubuntu-server team to it.
<aruetten> I got this URL http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/server/ for ï»¿ Ideas for Karmic
<ttx> aruetten: right, that's another source we look at.
<aruetten> ok
<ttx> moving on to...
<ttx> [TOPIC] Open Discussion
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open Discussion
<ttx> anything/anyone ?
<ttx> Who goes to an Ubuntu Release party and where ?
<sommer> I think there's a local one in my area, but I don't think I'll be able to make it :(
<ttx> kirkland: anything shaping up in Austin ?
<dinda> sommer: you can throw your own party ya know  :)
<zul_> ill be going to one
<dinda> ttx:  Kirkland's throwing one in austin. . .
<dinda> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JauntyReleaseParties#USA
<ttx> zul_: a not so local one, from what I heard.
<sommer> dinda: heh, very true
<zul_> ttx: true with lots of fish
<kirkland> that's true!\
<kirkland> we actually have a bar called The Jackalope in Austin on 6th Street
<ttx> kirkland: ah ! I was worried you weren't taking my bait :)
<kirkland> ttx: http://blog.dustinkirkland.com/2009/04/jaunty-release-party-austin-texas.html
<ttx> the place to be !
<dinda> kirkland: that is awesome
<kirkland> it's a pretty cheesey bar, but the name is too good to pass up :-)
 * dinda wonders if there is a karmic bar in austin. . . 
<ttx> Other server team members shall be attending the Aalborg, Denmark one on Friday.
<ttx> s/shall/might/
<itnet7> dinda: did hela ever get a hold of you?
<kirkland> dinda: there is Aussies Sports bar, with koalas on the wall ;-)  it's a beach volleyball place
<dinda> ChrisCrisafulli: nope
<kirkland> dinda: and there is a bar called "Karma" ... http://www.karma-austin.com/
<ttx> anything else before we close the meeting ?
<ttx> [TOPIC] Agree on next meeting date and time
<MootBot> New Topic:  Agree on next meeting date and time
<ttx> Same place, same time, next week?
<ttx> Hopefully we'll have a 9.04 by then.
<sommer> works for me
<ttx> Allrighty
<ttx> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:31.
 * manjo waves at amitk 
<amitk> hey manjo
 * cking is here
 * lieb here
 * sconklin1 here
 * smb_tp 2
 * rtg waves
 * bradf is here
 * apw looks lost
<manjo> bradf, you are the moderator for today ?
<bradf> yes, I forgot
<bradf> just a sec while I recover
<apw> remember to 'pound' startmeeting
<bradf> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 12:03. The chair is bradf.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<bradf> meeign notes ate at: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
 * apw sends bradf some extra letters
<bradf> I forgot, I believe this meeting was supposed to be canceled
<ogasawara> heh, that's what I thought
<bradf> it's next week that was I am supposed to do
<bradf> anyone have any issues they want to discuss right now
<bradf> ?
<apw> oh yeah, erm, this meeting is officially cancelled
<awe> ;)
<smb_tp> lets vote on it :)
<manjo> ok with me
<rtg> yeah, why can''t we have more beer at these meetings?
<lieb> second
<smb_tp> +1
<awe> +1
<cking> +1
<bradf> +1
 * apw seconds rtg's idea
<rtg> +1
<rtg> I'm outta here
<bradf> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 12:05.
<lieb> bye
<bradf> bye
<cking> wow that was quick
<ogasawara> best meeting evar
<apw> bradf, i'll fix the meeting page
<amitk> lol
<cking> snigger
 * apw thinks up some evil questions for ogasawara 
<ogra> bradf, you should shut down the bot ;)
<ogra> oh, you did already, sorry i'm blind
<thewrath> hey beuno
<thewrath> hey all
<duanedesign> hello
<thewrath> wats up
<duanedesign> waitin on the meeting
<thewrath> me too
<andrew_46> me three
<Ash_R_> hi all
<Ash_R_> meeting in 5 mins right?
<Rocket2DMn> Yes.  Please keep non-meeting chatter in our team channel please
<thewrath> Ash_R_:  i beleive so
<TuxPurple> hi :)
<jamesrfla> almost forgot we are having it in here
<Nano_ext3> omgomgomgomgomg meeting!
#ubuntu-meeting 2009-04-22
<cprofitt> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 18:00. The chair is cprofitt.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<cprofitt> Welcome to the UFBT meeting - the agenda is here - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/Meetings
<cprofitt> we will wait a few minutes to see if our team leader bodhi makes it
<Nano_ext3> What is the main topic tonight, the link has a meeting for past meetings, or where on the page is the minutes for the meeting
<cprofitt> Nano there is an agenda on that page.
<Nano_ext3> Nevermind I see it, so bodhi might be absent?
<cprofitt> I will announce the topics as we go using MootBot
<Nano_ext3> ok
<cprofitt> ok... let me hit the first topic and we can hope that Bodhi makes it in late...
<cprofitt> TOPIC Reminder : We are an "official" Ubuntu channel - CoC moment
<cprofitt> [TOPIC] Reminder : We are an "official" Ubuntu channel - CoC moment
<MootBot> New Topic:  Reminder : We are an "official" Ubuntu channel - CoC moment
<cprofitt> Bodhi and the council discussed the CoC (Code of Conduct) and wanted to remind you that the CoC does apply to #ubuntuforums-beginners
<cprofitt> are there any questions or concerns about this?
<Rocket2DMn> Don't think so cprofitt , it's pretty straightforward
<thewrath> i am not sure if i am out of line if i am i do apologize. would it help if everyone signed the CoC. I am not sure if everyone has since I am new.. Do you know what i mean
<cprofitt> ok... moving on
<cprofitt> [TOPIC] BT Job Posting Board
<MootBot> New Topic:  BT Job Posting Board
<paultag> Yo
<paultag> this was Josh + my idea
<cprofitt> paultag or joshua
<paultag> cprofitt: I'll take it
 * cprofitt nods
<paultag> So, in the spirit of integrating us more with the community at large, I propose a "job" board, where we are able to post tasks for members to complete, if they wish. This would give people an easy way to pick up and get involved with the community.
<Nano_ext3> Good idea , seconded
<paultag> This might contain a task of perhaps sorting 5 bugs, or document package X
 * cprofitt nods
<Nano_ext3> should be organized so people dont work over each other
<Rocket2DMn> o/
<paultag> small things, but a way to get us focused on beyond the forums.
<paultag> yo Rocket2DMn
<sdennie> I like the basis of the idea
<Rocket2DMn> You mentioned having a board, but I have noticed in the past that using the wiki doesn't tend to work very well for large numbers of people.  Perhaps you would like to file bug reports against our team and members can assign them to themselves?  Use LP Bugs as a workflow system sorta
<paultag> Rocket2DMn: I agree. the -dev team can write one no problem.
<sdennie> Rocket2DMn: Hold on
<paultag> Rocket2DMn: or LP, LP is great too
<Nano_ext3> some sort of tickiting system that assigns to BT members
<Joeb454> +1, it sounds like a good idea to me (sorry, suffering with lag right now)
<sdennie> I'm not sure if I'm understanding this correctly then
<paultag> sdennie: yo
<duanedesign> the ok loco has a projects and ideas page. we put ideas on there and if someone wasnts to work on the project they move it up to the active table and put there name next to it. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/OklahomaTeam/foo/testProjectsIdeas
<digitalvectorz> o/
<paultag> duanedesign: Wikis are a bit problematic with large groups
<paultag> hold on digitalvectorz
<paultag> sdennie: anything?
<sdennie> I thought the idea was, "Here is how to get involved in the team".  And then ways to get involved like paultag suggested.
<cprofitt> O/
<paultag> cprofitt: yo
<paultag> digitalvectorz: then you
<cprofitt> let digitalvectorz go first
<Rocket2DMn> I think we are talking about separate issues sdennie , i don't think paultag 's system is geared toward new members
<paultag> digitalvectorz: poke
<paultag> Rocket2DMn: +1
<digitalvectorz> paultag: what about integrating the bt in with firefly, in having them document packages and starting to get ff up a lil more?
<paultag> digitalvectorz: Firefly is a bit small for this. We can write something new that will scale a bit better. Or LP. Either will be OK
<paultag> cprofitt: hit it
<cprofitt> my question was answered
<cprofitt> we can move along
<Rocket2DMn> I would -1 using the dev team's project, we are already integrated in LP and shouldn't have too many systems around
<sdennie> I'll o/
<cprofitt> +1 Rocket2DMn
<jgoguen> +1
<paultag> Rocket2DMn: that is a valid concern, but it would be ok to have a place that we have 100% of jobs for us
<paultag> Rocket2DMn: but yes. Two logins would be an issue. Long term perhaps OpenID, but that is for later.
<paultag> sdennie: yo
<sdennie> paultag: I like your idea but, I think it should be aimed at new members
<paultag> sdennie: how so
<cprofitt> ok... so can we all agree the idea of a job board is good... and the specifics needs to be worked out?
<paultag> hold on cprofitt, sdennie has an issue
<sdennie> So, I think it should be a comprehensive "How/WhereTo" get involved.
<cprofitt> +1 sdennie
<paultag> sdennie: True, but having tickets that we need to fill would be great for new and old members
<paultag> sdennie: so we can have a ticket to document package X, or package package Y, and uplaod to Revu
<cprofitt> I think we can build a system that does both... the beginners get involved slowly and more advanced folks take on 'higher skill' jobs
<paultag> cprofitt: Right.
<sdennie> That's not unreasonable
<paultag> Any other issues?
<cprofitt> paultag, will this be something your group works on the details of?
<paultag> cprofitt: I'll take lead on this, sure.
<paultag> cprofitt: I'll document it up, and solidify it.
<cprofitt> paultag, when will your FG be meeting so interested folks can particpate?
<paultag> cprofitt: TBA. I will coordinate with you to get involved.
<paultag> cprofitt: this will be a team wide deal, not just one FG
<cprofitt> sounds good...
<Rocket2DMn> Cool, let's make sure it gets on the gcal and perhaps an email goes out
<digitalvectorz> +1
<paultag> Rocket2DMn: I'll follow up
<cprofitt> +1 Rocket2DMn
<cprofitt> is rob here?
<Rocket2DMn> Sounds like a plan guys.  Shall we move on with our agenda then?
<paultag> +1
<Rocket2DMn> i dont think Robb is with us any more, but his issue is still valid I suppose
<jamesrfla> cprofitt: no and not on MSN. We should move that to next meeting
<cprofitt> [TOPIC] All BT members should be subscribed to the team mailing list - see the team Launchpad page
<MootBot> New Topic:  All BT members should be subscribed to the team mailing list - see the team Launchpad page
<jamesrfla> Rocket2DMn: he is stilll part of the team
<cprofitt> we can go back to his issue if he comes in late
<Rocket2DMn> Ok, that is just a reminder that all BT members should be on our mailing list, on LP
<Rocket2DMn> I think only 3 members currently arent on the list - overdrank, saj0577, and Bodsda
<zu22> hi! sorry i had to help my sister with groceries
<Rocket2DMn> We will work to get them subscribed.  That is all
<zu22> got here as fast as i could
<sdennie> I think that's right
<Rocket2DMn> zu22, please keep idle chat in the team channel.  Thank you.
<cprofitt> [TOPIC] Reminder : Membership process revision 2
<MootBot> New Topic:  Reminder : Membership process revision 2
<Rocket2DMn> Ok guys, so the BT Council has had some lengthy discussions and laid out some more solid guidelines for new members.
<Rocket2DMn> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/FocusGroups/Padawan
<sdennie> cprofitt: I approve of the new process but will miss asking bewildering questions about swallows.
<Rocket2DMn> Basically, new users post in the thread, hand out in IRC, and create a wiki page to start
 * cprofitt notes sdennie's comment
<Rocket2DMn> We felt that to help new members get involved, they should join a Focus Group (forum activity counts for this)
<paultag> Rocket2DMn: +1
<Joeb454> sdennie: don't worry, as soon as they're on irc I ask that
<Rocket2DMn> Finally, new members should sign the Ubuntu Code of Conduct, as we will be enforcing this in the BT channel more than we used to
<thewrath> Rocket2DMn: I will naturally guess that creating tutorials, etc will be considered as the edu FG?
<cprofitt> yes, thewrath
<Rocket2DMn> And of course, Padawans should have a Master :)  We will be working on that part of the process a bit more with Masters
<zu22> Rocket2DMn: +1
<Rocket2DMn> thewrath, certainly could be!
<cprofitt> any questions guys?
<sdennie> thewrath: It can also be considered part of the Forums focus group
<Rocket2DMn> or even Wiki FG if that is where you are putting your tutorials
<sdennie> Yes
<thewrath> so it depends on how you are releasing a tutorial?
<sdennie> Yes
<Rocket2DMn> yeah, it's up to you though
<thewrath> okay noted
<Rocket2DMn> Any other discussion on this topic?
<cprofitt> [TOPIC] Reminder : We are using LP to list members. If you are not listed -> devoice :)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Reminder : We are using LP to list members. If you are not listed -> devoice :)
<Rocket2DMn> We have been using LP to track members for some time, but we are now making it the official tracking system since LP works well for this (membership expires, etc)
<zu22> paultag: hello
<Nano_ext3> I like how well LP works, so that always seemed nice
<cprofitt> that goes along with the earlier mention that you need to be on the LP
<Rocket2DMn> Any BT members who are not on the team should contact bodhi or nhandler
<Rocket2DMn> They can get you setup
<pleia2> o/
<Rocket2DMn> go plars
<Rocket2DMn> pleia2, *
<pleia2> in order to be a part of a focus group like education you have to be a member of the team (to be on the mailing list) which makes you a member of the main team too
<pleia2> but not all of us are actually members of the main team officially
<Rocket2DMn> I believe that is correct, I don't see a problem with that
<Vantrax> there is some leeway in that I think
<Rocket2DMn> The forums are our main focus, but we are not exclusive
<thewrath> pleia2: are you referring to padawans with being officially being apart of the main team?
<cprofitt> yes, there is some leeway pleia2
<cprofitt> no, pleia2 is referring to being part of the EDU focus group, but not part of the UFBT
<Vantrax> which she is
<sdennie> pleia2: In the past, well known members of the community have been made members simply by asking
<cprofitt> It was a topic that came up in our meeting with Canonical
<Rocket2DMn> that should grant indirect membership, does it not?
<paultag> o/
<cprofitt> It might Rocket2DMn but I do not think pleia2 wants all of our email... just the EDU FG mail
<cprofitt> go paultag
<sdennie> pleia2: So, if your concern is that you'd have to go through some sort of process to gain access to things, I wouldn't worry about it.
<paultag> does this mean we have two membership levels, indirect by being part of a FG, and a main team member? if so I think we need to revise something...
<cprofitt> paultag, no... I do not think that is the issue.
<pleia2> sdennie: I'm just wondering about, for instance, padawans who want to join edu focus group (not me specifically)
<Rocket2DMn> Well, Padawans are looking to join the main team, so should be on the main mailing list.  Is it as cprofitt said?  You don't want to get the rest of our mail?
<cprofitt> which is a logical concern if the EDU FG is successful with Moodle
<Nano_ext3> I would be more than willing to use my website as a channel for the edu goup for some key posts
<Rocket2DMn> Ok, well we are working on getting rid of the BT's extra mailing lists for FGs, but some FGs work directly with other Ubuntu teams that have their own mailin glist.
<paultag> Nano_ext3: we can talk later, but we avoid this
<cprofitt> It is definitely a subject we need to explore
<Nano_ext3> ok
<pleia2> Rocket2DMn: I don't mind getting the mail :) I was just talking about how using LP to keep track of things might get tricky because of this
 * cprofitt nods
<Vantrax> I should note there will be a different team created (outside UFBT) for people who are involved in the community training project that BT is starting
<Rocket2DMn> ok pleia2 , 2 things then:
<Rocket2DMn> on the topic of mail, perhaps Education/Learning needs its own mailing list separate from the BT Edu FG which members of that FG would also subscribe to (like Wiki FG does with the doc-team list)
<cprofitt> pleia2, I think we can discuss that in our council meeting - it is a valid concern... I believe the EDU FG is sep. on LP from UFBT
<Rocket2DMn> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntuforums-beginners/+members does not show you as a member pleia2 , so i think we're safe
<cprofitt> I think we need to discuss this more Rocket2DMn - but not now...
<Rocket2DMn> Ok, no problem, we can move on
<cprofitt> we will have a large number of people working with the EDU team if things go well
<cprofitt> ok...
<cprofitt> [TOPIC] Candidate for deletion, unmaintained, duplicate: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Beginners/Guide. Vote to approve.
<MootBot> New Topic:  Candidate for deletion, unmaintained, duplicate: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Beginners/Guide. Vote to approve.
<cprofitt> go ahead and let me know when to call the vote Rocket2DMn
<Rocket2DMn> Ok, that page on the communiy docs is old, I just wanted to get rid of it unless anybody has objections.  It is duplicating other stuff on the community docs and isnt maintained
<jamesrfla> O/
<Rocket2DMn> btw, that /Beginners area is our old wiki area before we moved to the team wiki
<Rocket2DMn> go jamesrfla
<jamesrfla> I think it is a great guid it just has too many links leading to different pages. Maybe using that to explain
<Rocket2DMn> That is what it is for jamesrfla , we need to avoid duplicating effort
<Rocket2DMn> It is really just a portal pages to real information
<jamesrfla> but sometimes that is good having something written in another way
<jamesrfla> somebody might read the guide and not be able to understand it. Maybe the 2nd guide they can understand. See what I am trying to say?
<Rocket2DMn> well any actual help material should be placed on the proper wiki page that is being linked to
<cprofitt> ok ... shall we vote?
<sdennie> What does it duplicate?  If it's better, and maintained, I'll +1 the removal of it.
<Rocket2DMn> I understand your point, but that page is not where "alternative explanations" should be
<Rocket2DMn> sdennie, https://help.ubuntu.com/community
<sdennie> Better
<sdennie> +1
<cprofitt> [VOTE] Delete https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Beginners/Guide
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Delete https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Beginners/Guide.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<PartyBoi2> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from PartyBoi2. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<cprofitt> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from cprofitt. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<Rocket2DMn> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from Rocket2DMn. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<sdennie> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from sdennie. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<ds305> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from ds305. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 5
<jamesrfla> 0
<zu22> +1
<Joeb454> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from zu22. 6 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 6
<MootBot> +1 received from Joeb454. 7 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 7
<duanedesign> 0
<jgoguen> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from jgoguen. 8 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 8
<paultag> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from paultag. 9 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 9
<jamesrfla> 0
<Rocket2DMn> gotta use a + jamesrfla
<jamesrfla> +0
<Vantrax> +!
<MootBot> Abstention received from jamesrfla. 9 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 9
<Vantrax> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from Vantrax. 10 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 10
<duanedesign> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from duanedesign. 10 for, 0 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 10
<cprofitt> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 10 for, 0 against. 2 abstained. Total: 10
<cprofitt> [AGREED] Delete https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Beginners/Guide
<MootBot> AGREED received:  Delete https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Beginners/Guide
<cprofitt> [ACTION] Delete https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Beginners/Guide
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Delete https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Beginners/Guide
<Rocket2DMn> Action accepted, I'll take care of it later
<cprofitt> [TOPIC] Discussion: I found a great intro linux guide based on Ubuntu prepared by Linux Format magazine which they offer as a free download.
<MootBot> New Topic:  Discussion: I found a great intro linux guide based on Ubuntu prepared by Linux Format magazine which they offer as a free download.
<cprofitt> zu22,
<cprofitt> you're up
<zu22> o/
<sdennie> Link to the guide?
<zu22> greetings gents let me fetch the link
<zu22> http://www.tuxradar.com/linuxstarterpack
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://www.tuxradar.com/linuxstarterpack
<zu22> any questions on the 1st item?
<Rocket2DMn> o/
<jamesrfla> go ahead Rocket2DMn
<Rocket2DMn> Is there something in particular you wanted to discuss about it?  I think thta if you believe it is a good guide, then you should keep it in your personal repository of links and use it on the forums when appropriate
<paultag> +1 Rocket2DMn
<zu22> ok
<zu22> i really wish to now only discuss item 3
<sdennie> I agree.  I don't doubt that it's a good guide but, I'm not sure what the topic is about.
<zu22> i think we should vote on updating the FG process for newbies
<zu22> to make it smoother
<paultag> o/
<jamesrfla> go ahead paultag
 * zu22 yields the floor to his colleague paultag
<paultag> zu22: I think the issue is that it is largely undocumented, from the start of the team it was just a group of guys hacking around with the same stuff
<Rocket2DMn> o/
<paultag> Now that the team is bigger, we need to think that we can't all be there talking
<paultag> and saying, oh yeah. I will start doing work with you on XYZ
<cprofitt> zu22, we are working on making it smoother... as we said in the previous discussion about Padawan and Masters
<paultag> esp now that we have more the one chan for a FG
<Rocket2DMn> I think it should be the Master's job to help get their Padawan involved in a FG that they are interested in.
<paultag> I mean, a FG has a chan
<paultag> +1 Rocket2DMn
<zu22> paultag: ok i want to volunteer to helo work on the new FG process
<Nano_ext3> new channels are going to be implemented?
<zu22> s/helo/help
<paultag> Nano_ext3: they already are.
<jamesrfla> Rocket2DMn: We do have a guide for masters right?
<paultag> Nano_ext3: if a FG is not relevant to the main team, the get put into another chan to keep the main chan on topic
<zu22> o/
<paultag> Nano_ext3: i.e. Development. our on topic, is Off topic for the main chan
<cprofitt> We do not yet have a guide for masters... but we are working on it.
<cprofitt> go zu22
<zu22> when i joined some FG channels there was no clear info in the /TOPIC
<duanedesign> making involvment in a FG mandatory for new members will help w zu22 concern
<zu22> so i thought adding some guide for each irc channel would help
<paultag> duanedesign: +1
<zu22> maybe IRC FG can do this
<cprofitt> +1 zu22
<paultag> zu22: I think perhaps a Wiki might be better suited?
<zu22> paultag: hmm
<sdennie> I'm not sure if there could be a guide for masters.  Every candidate has their own needs, every master has their own ways.  And sometimes the master/padawan thing is just a formality.
<zu22> not sure what do others think?
<cprofitt> I think each of our channels should have a topic set... even if it only directs people to the wiki page
<paultag> sdennie: +1
<jgoguen> cprofitt: +1
<paultag> Rocket2DMn: can we have some Wiki FG help with getting this set up?
<zu22> cprofitt: +1
<jamesrfla> sdennie: true but maybe something that needs to be requierd for all masters
<thewrath>  o/
<Rocket2DMn> I'd be happy to help anybody learn to use the wiki, but I think whoever is in charge should make the changes themselves
<cprofitt> I think we are good on that topic... and we can work with the IRC FG to assist other FG teams ensure they know how to manage their channels
<paultag> cprofitt: I don't think that is a big issue
<paultag> cprofitt: most FG leads are IRC vets
<cprofitt> ok thewrath
<Vantrax> jamesrfla, there was a set of guidelines being drawn up by council i think
<Rocket2DMn> The idea was presented in a council meeting to have a sort of generic checklist to follow that can be stored on a Padawan's personal wiki page
<zu22> Rocket2DMn: +1
<Rocket2DMn> its wouldnt be the end-all, but its a start
<sdennie> jamesrfla: No, I don't think so.  My padawans have been ibuclaw, ds305 and the like.  The guide for welcoming them here consists of, "Don't worry.  Just be yourself".
<cprofitt> ok... lets move along
<zu22> o/
<cprofitt> zu22,
<zu22> Specifically when I joined Security FG irc channel i had to ask members how to proceed.
<paultag> zu22: security is very small
<cprofitt> I understand zu22
<zu22> So i think each FG irc channel having some help blurb in topic would be nice.
<cprofitt> we will work on making that better
<zu22> paultag: ah
<zu22> ok
<cprofitt> I think a blurb and link to wiki would be good...
<cprofitt> but we will discuss it further
<cprofitt> [TOPIC] FG Leader Nominations - Elections
<MootBot> New Topic:  FG Leader Nominations - Elections
<jamesrfla> cprofitt: nothing else on agenda and no new members.....
<cprofitt> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/Meetings
<cprofitt> see the meeting page for nominations
<cprofitt> Elections take place every 6 months. Please add your name with a link to your wiki page. On your page, have a short agenda of your proposed plans for the team to fulfill in the following 6 months. Proposed agendas should be no more than 100 words. Current leads are listed and assumed to want to be considered for re-election, but still must have a proposed agenda.
<cprofitt> no date has been set for the elections yet, but we wanted to make you aware of this.
<cprofitt> Rocket2DMn, or nhandler anything to add?
<Rocket2DMn> I think we want to do this at the next meeting
<Rocket2DMn> You can see my wiki page for an example agenda
<jamesrfla> oh sorry cprofitt didn't nottice the FG but might be a good idea for next meeting
<cprofitt> k
<cprofitt> ok... we have one nomination for new member this month
<cprofitt> [TOPIC] New Member Vote -- swoody
<MootBot> New Topic:  New Member Vote -- swoody
<sdennie> +1
<Vantrax> +1
<cprofitt> Vantrax, would you like to say anything?
<paultag> +1
<ds305> +1
<jamesrfla> swoody: your UF profile and maybe wiki link please
<cprofitt> we have not started the vote yet
<sdennie> Haha
<Vantrax> Swoody can cut it, and hes going to be working on developing courses with the EDU team soon
<sdennie> Sorry
<paultag> d'oh!
<Joeb454> is swoody here?
<zu22> o/
<jamesrfla> yes Joeb454
<cprofitt> he is in the channel
<cprofitt> zu22,
<Vantrax> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/swoody
<Joeb454> ok cool :)
<zu22> i found the channel he was after: #ubuntu-hardened
<zu22> (Security FG)
<jamesrfla> thanks Vantrax
<cprofitt> zu22, please stay on topic
<swoody> https://wiki.ubuntu.org/swoody
<cprofitt> ok...
<cprofitt> vote time
<cprofitt> [VOTE] Approve Swoody
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Approve Swoody.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<PartyBoi2> +1
<cprofitt> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from PartyBoi2. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<MootBot> +1 received from cprofitt. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<swoody> https://launchpad.net/~swoody
<Vantrax> +1
<sdennie> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from Vantrax. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<Rocket2DMn> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from sdennie. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<jamesrfla> +1
<ds305> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from Rocket2DMn. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 5
<MootBot> +1 received from jamesrfla. 6 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 6
<paultag> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from ds305. 7 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 7
<duanedesign> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from paultag. 8 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 8
<MootBot> +1 received from duanedesign. 9 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 9
<zu22> -
<zu22> 0
<cprofitt> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 9 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 9
<swoody> +1 ;)
<cprofitt> [AGREED] Swoody for member
<MootBot> AGREED received:  Swoody for member
<Vantrax> grats swoody
<Nano_ext3> congrats
<Joeb454> wow that was quick
<Rocket2DMn> Congrats, welcome to the team
<Joeb454> I didn't even get to vote
<zu22> welcome swoddy
<cprofitt> [ACTION] give swoody voice in main channel
<MootBot> ACTION received:  give swoody voice in main channel
<paultag> 'grats swoody
<Vantrax> aww shucks, my padawan is all grown up
<Joeb454> I would've +1'd anyway, so congrats swoody
 * Joeb454 gives swoody voice
<cprofitt> ok... that bring us to the conclusion of our meeting...
<swoody> ty everybody :D
<cprofitt> please check the meeting page for information about our next meeting and thanks for attending
<cprofitt> [ENDMEETING]
<zu22> ok
<cprofitt> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 18:52.
<Joeb454> swoody: come back ;)
<swoody> lol, one sec...
<Kangarooo> !meeting
<ubottu> Team meetings are held in #ubuntu-meeting - See Â« /msg ubottu logs Â» for transcripts.
<Kangarooo> !next
<ubottu> Sorry, I don't know anything about next
<nhandler> Kangarooo: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar
<davmor2> Hello
<jtholmes> davmor2, did you see my msg about 8.10 upgrading via alt cd
<davmor2> jtholmes: yes
<jtholmes> ok not a show stopper though
<jtholmes> davmor2, should a test case be written for that
<davmor2> probably but not till after uds
<ara> are we having the meeting today?
<jtholmes> right that is what i was thinking, i will put it on my list of to do
<davmor2> ara: youread my mind.  I asked heno but haven't had a response.  No one said there wouldn't be one
<bdmurray> There is not much on the agenda does anybody have anything?
<davmor2> We finished testing nice one everybody
<ara> are you partying this weekend?
<charlie-tca> Testing went very well, I thought
<davmor2> I'm partying Tomorrow
<bdmurray> It seemed like we had lots of new help ISO testing this time
<davmor2> bdmurray: yes which was cool also meant double ups on a lot of the testcases which was nice
<davmor2> by the way bdmurray you could drop the severity of your bug now I think as it got fixed by slangasek :)
<bdmurray> davmor2: the wubi metalink one?
<davmor2> bdmurray: yes
<davmor2> mind you I don't think it matters one way or the other now :)
<davmor2> I meant to tell you yesterday after it got fixed :)
<bdmurray> davmor2: house keeping is always good ;-)
<davmor2> bdmurray: I got a question about apport-collect does it work on ubiquity?
<bdmurray> davmor2: it depends, probably not since most systems don't have it installed
<davmor2> ah right
<cr3> does apport-collect now support passing "linux" instead of "linux-image-`uname -r`"?
<bdmurray> cr3: I don't think so ogasawara might know more
<ogasawara> cr3: I think you still need the linux-image-`uname -r`
<cr3> wishlist for karmic then
<bdmurray> Yeah, I think there is a bug about that already
<bdmurray> cr3: you had something on the agenda regarding a wiki page did we talk about that at all?
<davmor2> bdmurray: I think there needs to be more promotion on apport.  :)
<cr3> bdmurray: oh right, thanks for bringing that up
<bdmurray> davmor2: any ideas for how to promote it more? mdz and I have both blogged about it.
<bdmurray> davmor2: maybe get it mentioned in some podcast?
<cr3> bdmurray: ogasawara and I thought it might be worthwhile to rename the quick key page from Troubleshooting to Debugging in order to be consistent with the other very useful Debugging related wiki pages, what do you guys think?
<cr3> ie Hotkeys/Troubleshooting to Debugging/Hotkeys
<bdmurray> I'm hesitant to rename things as existing comments in bug reports may point to the old page.  Perhaps we can make a redirect page from Debugging/HotKeys to it?
<cr3> bdmurray: good point, I'm glad I asked
<davmor2> bdmurray: ubuntu open week talk?  Uds video? Podcast ?  Get bug triagers to recommend it more etc etc etc
<bdmurray> davmor2: there is an open week talk on reporting bugs I'll mention it to the instructor for that
<mdz> bdmurray: speaking of which, has the percentage continued to rise?
<bdmurray> mdz: it was about 26% last time I checked
<mdz> bdmurray: I was just working on a script to do some statistical analysis of bugs using the launchpad API; I should have a report for the last 30 days once it finishes running (30 minutes?)
<davmor2> bdmurray: tell them not to forget apport-collect too
 * popey wakes up at the mention of podcasts
<cr3> bdmurray: done, I've created Debugging/Hotkeys which redirects to Hotkeys/Troubleshooting. that way, people searching the ubuntu wiki for "debug key" will find what they're looking for
<charlie-tca> Will apport be turned on by default in jaunty?
<davmor2> popey: tech talk about apport
<bdmurray> popey: Have you ever mentioned ubuntu-bug and or apport-collect in a podcast?
<bdmurray> charlie-tca: its turned off by default for crash reports, however you can still use it to manually report bugs
<charlie-tca> okay, thanks
<popey> bdmurray: no, we should
<bdmurray> popey: that'd be great if you did
<popey> email podcast@ubuntu-uk.org with anything you think we should cover
<popey> we are recording on monday, so are looking for stuff to talk about, this would be ideal
<bdmurray> popey: okay, I'll send an e-mail thanks!
<popey> np
<popey> thank you :)
<cr3> popey: maybe we should make it a point to have a debugging podcast around beta release for karmic
<davmor2> bdmurray: remember to add links to wiki page so it can be added to show notes :)
<bdmurray> davmor2: got it thanks
<cr3> I should extend vixie cron to have special tags for ubuntu: @ubuntu-beta echo "do more testing than every" | mailx $EMAIL
<davmor2> cr3: :)
<bdmurray> Anything else to discuss?
<bdmurray> cr3: I've added the Debugging category to that page too since it was missing
<cr3> bdmurray: thanks!
<bdmurray> okay, thanks then everyone!
<davmor2> ta bye then
#ubuntu-meeting 2009-04-23
<persia> Who's here for the Java Team meeting?
<ttx> o/
<persia> OK.  First up, congrats everyone on the work during the Jaunty cycle.
<ttx> \o/
<persia> Next up: agenda at: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JavaTeam/Meeting
<persia> Nothing special
<persia> Roadmap:
<persia> robilad isn't here.  slytherin isn't here.
<persia> I failed to kill Sun Java 5 :(
<persia> I'll try again next cycle.
<ttx> it can run but it cannot hide.
<persia> ttx, Any updates on Contents?  Based on your blog post, I wonder if that's complete.
<ttx> yes, it's complete. I will plug it in a packaging training session sometime in May, but otherwise it's done
<persia> OK.  We'll leave it on the roadmap until then.
<persia> Attracting new Java packagers?
<ttx> I will (try to) to a packaging session sometime in May, hopefully it will demystify the whole thing
<ttx> s/to a/do a/
<persia> Makes sense.
<persia> ludovicc is not here
<persia> OK.  Anyone have anything else to add?
<persia> OK.
<persia> I'll be adding "Specs" to the agenda for next week.  If anyone is planning to put together a Java-related spec, please bring it to the meeting.
<persia> See you next Thursday
<ttx> yes, good point
<ttx> unfortunately I won't be here next week
<ttx> I already have a blueprint about eucalyptus-javadeps refactoring:
<ttx> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/server-karmic-euca-javadeps-refactoring
<ttx> that's my only java-related spec atm
<persia> Well, we'll probably want to postpone that until the first meeting in May then.
<persia> Maybe some other people will raise some as well.
<ttx> your call. Just plug mine in the discussion if I am not around :)
<persia> OK :)
<dholbach> hello everybody
<dholbach> geser, nixternal, soren, jpds, nhandler, persia: who of you is around?
<dholbach> ember, statik, bdrung, imbrandon: are you guys around?
<statik> hi dholbach
 * ember waves
<bdrung> dholbach: yes :)
<imbrandon> heya dholbach
 * persia is about
<imbrandon> sorry bandwidth is a bit low, seeding some release torrents :)
<imbrandon> so i may lag a tiny bit
<dholbach> hehe :)
<persia> I'll also admit to not expecting to make this meeting, and not having reviewed people as in-depth as I'd like.
<dholbach> geser, soren, nixternal?
 * dholbach thinks that nhandler is probably not going to be around and jpds en route to a release party
<imbrandon> nixternal: should be around unless he is already drinking :)
<ScottK> That doesn't preclude him being around.
<imbrandon> but its only noon in our timezone so i doubt he is *yet*
<imbrandon> lol ScottK :)
 * soren is here.
 * geser is here
<dholbach> ah awesome!
<imbrandon> on a side note i get my new ( freelance ) office today
<persia> OK.  That's four of us.
<dholbach> perfect
<dholbach> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 12:04. The chair is dholbach.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<dholbach> [TOPIC] Pedro Fragoso
<MootBot> New Topic:  Pedro Fragoso
<dholbach> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PedroFragoso
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PedroFragoso
<dholbach> ember: how are you doing?
<ember> good !
<ember> bit nervous :p
<nixternal> yo yo
<dholbach> ember: don't worry :)
<dholbach> ember: so how's life in Ubuntu Desktop land? how did the last GNOME releases go into Ubuntu? anything problematic?
<ember> the life is ubuntu desktop is awesome
<ember> this 2.26.x looks quite stable
<geser> wait till dholbach gets out his bbq sauce :)
<dholbach> geser: errr, huh? :-)
<ember> and Desktop Team is already doing some SRU's to polish missing bugs
<geser> re "don't worry" (was a little bit late)
<ember> lol
<dholbach> ember: oh nice... you guys are unstoppable :)
<dholbach> ember: is there any specific applications on the desktop that you like best to look after?
<dholbach> ember: also in terms of bug reports?
<pace_t_zulu> there are still some gnome-panel issues in 2.26 when changing screen resolution
<ember> dholbach: as you notice i'm usually taking care of brasero sound-juicer gnome-themes gtk2-engines
<ember> and know hamster-applet
<ember> *now
<dholbach> pace_t_zulu: best to speak to the folks in #ubuntu-desktop about that :)
<ember> and tomboy!
<persia> ember, Many of the testimonials on your wiki page talk about rushing.  How do you plan to address that perception?
<pace_t_zulu> will do... i have written my own workaround for it for the time being
<pace_t_zulu> but i'd like to land a fix for Karmic
<ember> persia: i had that problem in the beginning
<dholbach> pace_t_zulu: we're in a meeting right now, which is why I suggested it :-)
<ember> and the rush resulted in some missing test builds and etc
<ember> noawadays i focus on some packages or on packages the desktop needs help
<ember> and improved my testing and interaction with the desktop team
<pace_t_zulu> dholbach: apologies, I saw someone ask about ubuntu desktop... i thought i'd bring up a user experience issue
<dholbach> ember: and for those packages, how is your contact with the upstream people?
<dholbach> pace_t_zulu: no worries :)
<persia> ember: Right.  It's just that it's mentioned by several people in your application, so while I suspect you've improved massively, what do you plan to do to ensure these issues stay gone when there is nobody reviewing your work?
<ember> dholbach: is pretty good actually
<ember> brasero upstream have one portuguese so its easy for me
<ember> hamster-applet are really nice guys too
<ember> persia: i've improved a lot actually, in jaunty the only FTFBS i had was a missing bzr add of a patch to fix FTBFS
<ember> i'm using a lot of vm, chroots, a testing lap, piuparts etc
<persia> ember.  I'm confident of your improvement: I'm just wondering about your strategy for testing prior to upload (in some detail).
<ember> persia: right now before requesting for sponsoring i'm using pbuilder on my main desktop, dpkg-build on a clean install, piuparts
<ember> a installation on a clean install on a old lap
<nixternal> ember: I had that same problem when I first got started, the "rushing", and let me just say, you aren't the only one that has had it, I am witnessing a lot of people now doing it as well..it is tough to overcome, however your last statement about using the vm, chroots, *a testing laptop*, and piuparts is exactly the remedy...i prefer real hardware over vm, but vm works just as well
<dholbach> geser, soren: do you have any questions for ember?
<persia> ember, Indeed.  That does sound like a comprehensive testing regimen :)
<ember> persia: its a MUST!
<geser> no questions
<geser> from me
<dholbach> persia, nixternal: anything more from you?
<persia> ember, Also, we typically ask applicants to specify something the don't like about Ubuntu: in part this is to identify things that need fixing, and in part this is to provide some idea of where someone is motivated to tackle a larger issue.
<ember> nixternal: yeah i sure prefer hardware over vm
<nixternal> ember: with that said, there are also times where you might feel a bit rushed..what I do when that happens to me, is ask for some help...I was rushed with the last kubuntu-docs package, luckily for me it turned out good kind of :)
<persia> As it's not in your app, would you mind sharing now?
<nixternal> persia: good catch, I would like to know as well
<ember> persia: the only thing i think it's need fixing
<ember> it's about claiming updates on the desktop-team
<ember> i think huats or didrocks already mention that
<persia> Could you explain the problem, and how you think it could be addressed?
<ember> well when i first started to update package we used a wiki page
<ember> but when new contributors started to appear that become quite problematic
<nixternal> i think i know exactly what he is talking about...it is both good and bad
<nixternal> yup
<ember> so we started claiming on the irc channel
<ember> which sometimes and to new contributors isn't working
<ember> norsetto tried to fix the problem creating a webpage to address this
<nixternal> ember: how did the webpage work out?
<ember> http://norsetto.890m.com/desktop_packages.php
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://norsetto.890m.com/desktop_packages.php
<nixternal> it seemed to have worked for the Kubuntu crowd in Jaunty this go round, but I don't think Kubuntu has that large of a problem when compared to Ubuntu Desktop
<ember> nixternal: it's didn't work
<nixternal> ya, that problem is a tough one to fix
<ember> we kinda need a system to people claim updates
<ember> and also check the previous upload or people who usually uploads
<ember> and also if the package is in sync with Debian
<nixternal> right, like if Merge-O-Matic was a bit more interractive, that might help?
<ember> nixternal: that would help too
<persia> ember, OK.  How do you think the problem should be solved, and what do you plan to do to assist with that solution?
<ember> i think huats and didrocks along with seb are going to discuss this in UDS
<nixternal> I know there were packages that I needed to fix, but somebody grabbed them and updated before I could touch them upstream or in Debian....so I totally understand the problem
<ember> persia: i think we can improve the webpage in that direction
<ember> and i plan to assist in every way i can, i'm going to use it too.
<dholbach> no questions from me... soren, nixternal, persia?
<ember> nixternal: we usually have some package we really don't touch, only sync
<nixternal> right, I am good dholbach
<soren> No, I'm happy :)
<persia> ember, One last question: you say you plan to help with the sponsoring queue: what makes a good submission?
<nixternal> the problem that ember stated, might be something for the greater development community to discuss, as I have witnessed it now for a while with no simple fix unfortunately
<persia> nixternal, Agreed.  If there's not a UDS discussion, it's probably worth taking to ubuntu-devel@ (and if there is, leveraging that discussion widely)
<ember> persia: i plan to started working on sponsoring, mainly on updates/or patchs that fix a bug
<ScottK> I did sponsor one upload from ember and it was good (hamster-applet, I think).
<ember> and share the knowledge
<nixternal> heh, already updates on release day :)
<ember> ScottK: yes you uploaded hamster-applet with code from upstream to use notifications
<persia> ember, I understand that: I'm just wondering if you can describe what makes a patch in good shape to be sponsored?
<imbrandon> nixternal: always :)
<ember> persia: the version correct, the diff well formed, the changelog good
<ember> if have patches to have it documented if is from upstream or someplace else
<ember> if it builds & installs & runs
<persia> Anything else?
<ember> it quite depends, if it something we want to send it to Debian we should tell
<persia> OK.  How about in terms of the specific code changes?
<ember> persia: that depends to, if it's something we contributor can maintain
<ember> and if its good send it to upstream too.
<ember> *s/we/the
<ember> but there are some cases we should first try upstream to see if its get accepted
<ember> in case of a large code change
<persia> OK.  The part I'm not seeing you say is "The patch fixes an issue in a way that is sensible, and doesn't cause a regression in basic testing".
<ember> persia: yes that too
 * persia is done with questions
<dholbach> ok
<ember> there are some cases in the Desktop we tend to try it first in upstream then applying the patch on Ubuntu
<nixternal> \o/
<nixternal> ;p
<dholbach> [VOTE] Shall Pedro Fragoso become a MOTU?
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Shall Pedro Fragoso become a MOTU?.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<nixternal> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from nixternal. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<dholbach> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from dholbach. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<geser> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from geser. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<soren> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from soren. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<persia> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from persia. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 5
<dholbach> #endvote
<dholbach> [endvote]
<MootBot> Final result is 5 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 5
<nixternal> congrats and welcome ember!!!
<imbrandon> gratz ember
<dholbach> congratulations ember!
<ember> thanks folks!
 * soren hugs ember
 * ember hugs dholbach!
 * nixternal hugs everyone
 * ember hugs everyone.
<dholbach> who's going to do the honours later on?
 * dholbach hugs ember back
<nixternal> not me, I can't connect to LP :P
<geser> ember: congrats and looks like you survived it in one piece :)
<dholbach> ok... let's decide that later on
<dholbach> [TOPIC] Elliot Murphy
<MootBot> New Topic:  Elliot Murphy
<persia> The honours are likely going to have to wait until tomorrow, given the traffic in #launchpad.
<dholbach> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ElliotMurphy/UniverseContributorApplication
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ElliotMurphy/UniverseContributorApplication
<nixternal> we need to make the membership stuff more stressful, make um sweat a bit, maybe shead a tear? ;p
<dholbach> statik: how are you doing?
<statik> hello hello
<imbrandon> geser: much easier than when i did my initial MOTU infront of sabdfl and the TB :)
<nixternal> imbrandon: ditto
<statik> dholbach: doing great, relaxing in the sun and wishing launchpad was working better at the moment :)
<dholbach> statik: hehe... I guess you're not the only one :)
<dholbach> statik: do you have any immediate plans for the karmic release?
<statik> dholbach: i sure do. i want to get couchdb updated, and i'm currently working on packaging a bunch of libraries that are needed before I can package windmill, the automated website testing tool
<statik> dholbach: also working on ubuntu one, which should be actually available in beta at UDS
<dholbach> statik: nice - I'm sure there's going to be a lot of interest :)
<statik> dholbach: i also have a special interest in looking after google protocol buffers and general interest in erlang packages
<statik> although the only erlang packages i'm currently using are rabbitmq and couchdb, so those are the main erlang related ones i'm watching
<dholbach> statik: you've been working a bit on packaging stuff now, what was your Ubuntu development and packaging experience like?
<statik> dholbach: it's a bit like programming in a pile of shell scripts and various tools with random incoherent syntax
<dholbach> statik: so it was rather unpleasant? :)
<statik> dholbach: the people and community are great, but it's a bit of shock to the system compared to programming in python or C
<dholbach> ok, I see what you mean now
<statik> dholbach: i'm watching vcs-package efforts with great interest
<dholbach> geser, soren, persia, nixternal: do you have any questions already?
<statik> dholbach: and the bzr branches for packages should help quite a lot
<dholbach> statik: yes, I think so too
<soren> dholbach: Not really, no.
<nixternal> ya, nothing here really
<geser> statik: any reason why you have so few sponsored uploads?
<persia> statik, For application to the Contributing Developers group, the primary criteria are significant and sustained contributions within the development team.  As you mention in your application, there are only a small number of uploads for which launchpad has given you credit.  Could you talk about some of the other work you've done within the Ubuntu development community that would qualify as significant?
<persia> (I'm guessing there are contributions as branches for which someone else had Changed-By or other similar cases)
<statik> persia: no, i've got very few uploads so far
<statik> persia: i did 3 new python packages last week, those are in revu now
<dholbach> nixternal: ^ django-openid-auth - nudge nudge
<statik> persia: a main reason of having so few so far is my spending all my time working on unreleased software at canonical
<statik> persia: so, i'm doing quite a lot to get more software released by canonical. I also gave a lot of coaching to the guys working on the rabbitmq-server package for jaunty
<persia> statik, I can certainly understand that, but I'm not sure it's measurably different from engagement anywhere else.
<statik> persia: so, this doesn't change the fact that i have few uploads.
<persia> So there isn't a huge set of work you've done that LP just isn't crediting you for?
<statik> persia: lets say no
<dholbach> geser, persia: do you have any more questions?
 * persia is done.
<geser> no questions left
<dholbach> [VOTE] Shall Elliot Murphy become Contributing Developer?
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Shall Elliot Murphy become Contributing Developer?.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<nixternal> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from nixternal. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<dholbach> +0 - I'm sort of undecided, the work I've seen is fantastic and very encouraging, I just feel that you'd benefit from a bit more time in the team
<MootBot> Abstention received from dholbach. 1 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 1
<persia> I'm -1 for now.  I think the work to date is great, but would like to see either more work, or more documented involvement with the developer team supporting others.
<statik> sure
<persia> Err.  Mootbot syntax
<dholbach> statik: I hope you're not disappointed or discouraged now
<persia> -1
<MootBot> -1 received from persia. 1 for, 1 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 0
<soren> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from soren. 1 for, 1 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 0
<geser> -1
<MootBot> -1 received from geser. 1 for, 2 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now -1
<statik> dholbach: not at all
<dholbach> [endvote]
<MootBot> Final result is 1 for, 2 against. 2 abstained. Total: -1
 * dholbach hugs statik
<persia> nhandler, Great to see you.
<statik> thanks everyone :)
<dholbach> thanks a bunch for attending and for all the great work you've done!
<soren> statik: I'm with persia, I think. I think the work you've done is great, but there's still a bit to be done before I think it qualifies as sustained contribution.
<nhandler> persia: I got home early today ;)
<dholbach> [TOPIC] Benjamin Drung
<persia> statik, I'm certain you're on the right path, and after a bit of work with the folks in #ubuntu-motu learning some of the stuff you say you want to learn, you'll be back and successful.
<MootBot> New Topic:  Benjamin Drung
 * imbrandon needs to head out semi soon
<dholbach> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BenjaminDrung/UniverseContributorApplication
<geser> statik: more sponsored uploads, more feedback (should be easy with more uploads) and you will pass the next time
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BenjaminDrung/UniverseContributorApplication
<dholbach> hey bdrung - how are you doing?
<bdrung> dholbach: good
<persia> So, imbrandon has to head out soon, and was scheduled for the last meeting.  Would it be possible to switch order?
<persia> bdrung, Would that work for you?
<bdrung> persia: yes
<dholbach> ok
<imbrandon> great , thanks bdrung
<persia> bdrung, Thanks for your flexibility.
<dholbach> [TOPIC] Brandon Holtsclaw
<MootBot> New Topic:  Brandon Holtsclaw
<dholbach> [LINK] https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/motu-council/2009-April/002087.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/motu-council/2009-April/002087.html
<persia> imbrandon, So, you've been away a while: what have you done to catch up on the changes?
<nixternal> -400
<persia> nixternal, vote early, vote often only works in Chicago.
<imbrandon> now i havent updated my wiki since Dapper, but most of you should be familiar with me and i'll be happy to field the q's :)
<nixternal> persia: hold on, let me go drudge up some dead people to help vote!
<imbrandon> persia: mostly kept up on the mailing list ( u-d-d and u-d-a )
<nixternal> imbrandon: who are you? I am unfamiliar with you?
<imbrandon> ALOT of reading on new policys / changes
<persia> imbrandon, So, what do you think changed the most?
<imbrandon> and just general "catching up"
<imbrandon> persia: more fomality
<imbrandon> ( not a bad thing )
<imbrandon> but alot more struct than what i was accustomed to but not against :)
<dholbach> imbrandon: when, roughly, was the time you got too busy with other stuff?
<imbrandon> basicly alot of the best practices got codified
<imbrandon> dholbach: about the begning og gutsy
<imbrandon> of*
<dholbach> imbrandon: do you have any plans for your MOTU membership already?
<imbrandon> i'm esp intrested in the mono(apache and cli) packages ( some in main , but thats later )
<soren> Sorry guys, I have to run :/
<imbrandon> and naturally universe SRU and SWAT stuff
<nhandler> imbrandon: What have you been doing to try and catch up on what you have missed?
<dholbach> soren: we have nhandler for you now, so we should be all set - take care!
<imbrandon> ( i loved doing those updates )
<dholbach> nixternal, geser, nhandler: any questions from you?
<nhandler> dholbach: ^^^
<nhandler> I am curious as to what imbrandon found most useful in catching up on everything he missed
<imbrandon> ahh missed your nhandler, umm its kinda what dholbach asked, mostly catching up the last month or so on the mailing lists and looking over the policy changes
<nhandler> i.e. wiki pages, old mailing lists messages, talking with other developers on IRC, etc
<geser> imbrandon: so you're trying to become MOTU again for now or do you have plans to become core-dev again too?
<nhandler> Ok, I missed the mailing list part imbrandon
<imbrandon> yes, i've kept my sub to all mailing lists and tried to stay acive on them
<imbrandon> atleaste reading wise
<nhandler> :)
<nixternal> imbrandon: planning on working on Kubuntu stuff again, or have you gone over to the dark side?
<imbrandon> hahahaha well i've been on the darkside since KDE 3.5 was expunged, but i still have it on my spare laptop and plan on working on it ( notifications and such to unify gnome/kde ) but actual use i'll likely stick with gnome for atleaste this cycle
<nixternal> ScottK: ^^ enemy!
<imbrandon> :)
 * dholbach has no more questions. :-)
<ScottK> nixternal: Nope.  He lives in KC, so not my enemy.
<nixternal> hrmm
<imbrandon> ScottK: good bbq :)
<nixternal> no more q's from me
<nhandler> I'm good
<nixternal> KC != good bbq
<nixternal> ;p
<ScottK> nixternal: That's one theory.
<dholbach> persia, geser: anything more from you?
<geser> no
<ScottK> It's too cold in Chicago for that to be a good place to form an opinion.
<persia> imbrandon, When you left, it was somewhat precipitously, and there were some concerns that some of the stuff you had been doing was dropped without appropriate cover.  Do you feel this was incorrect, or if you feel it was correct, do you have plans to ensure it is not repeated?
<nhandler> ScottK: We are getting 80 degree temperatures tomorrow
 * nixternal is going bike riding in it too
<imbrandon> persia: definaly incorrect, and since i've learned to live by the "bus rule" ( more to come .... )
<imbrandon> the "bus rule" is make sure you are not the only one that knows some bit of info or has access, so if you are hit by a bus ( or in my case a divorce ) its not "as bad"
<dholbach> haha... I didn't know it as the "bus rule"
<nixternal> either did I
<imbrandon> :P
 * nixternal has to remember that
<persia> Well, that's excellent news on two counts (incorrect, and "bus rule"), and unfortunate on the third: I hope all is well for you now.
<dholbach> persia: everything from you?
<persia> Yes.
<imbrandon> persia: thanks :)
<dholbach> [VOTE] Shall Brandon Holtsclaw re-join the MOTU team?
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Shall Brandon Holtsclaw re-join the MOTU team?.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<persia> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from persia. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<nixternal> +1
<dholbach> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from nixternal. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<MootBot> +1 received from dholbach. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<geser> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from geser. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<nhandler> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from nhandler. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 5
<dholbach> [endvote]
<MootBot> Final result is 5 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 5
<nixternal> -1
<nixternal> ;p
<dholbach> welcome back imbrandon!
<dholbach> nixternal: that was to be expected :)
<nixternal> bah, I guess welcome back
 * dholbach hugs imbrandon
 * nixternal hugs everyone
<dholbach> [TOPIC] Benjamin Drung
<MootBot> New Topic:  Benjamin Drung
<imbrandon> great , thanks fella's ( and ladies if any are looking )
<dholbach> bdrung: still awake? :)
<imbrandon> ok must run, seee everyone soon
<persia> Have a good day imbrandon
<nixternal> if they are looking, it isn't at you, now movealong, nothing more to see ;p
<bdrung> dholbach: as you can see
<dholbach> :-)
<dholbach> bdrung: what kind of packages do you like looking after? do you have any concrete plans for karmic already?
<bdrung> dholbach: xmms2 and it clients (today was version 0.6 released)
<bdrung> dholbach: getting gnome-colors and shiki-colors into karmic
<nhandler> bdrung: Any plans on joining the mozilla team?
<dholbach> bdrung: your wiki page says something about eclipse... there's little you're afraid of, right? :)
<dholbach> bdrung: more seriously, do you have some experience with java and java packages already?
 * nixternal found someone who has already pacakged eclipse 3.4.2 for Debian btw
<bdrung> dholbach: i have experience with java programming, but not with ant.
<nixternal> Ant FTW!
<nixternal> bdrung: Ant is so easy and fun
 * nixternal closes his mouth before he in the world of Java hell
<ScottK> nixternal: Please sponsor it when Karmic opens.
<bdrung> dholbach: eclipse is very big and ugly and i need more time to dive into ant and the package.
<nixternal> ScottK: ant?
<dholbach> bdrung: yeah, I can imagine
<ScottK> Eclipse
<nixternal> ahh, I will help sponsor sure
<nhandler> bdrung: Care to answer my qeustion about the mozilla team? I saw in your wiki that you had worked on a few extensions with asac
<bdrung> nhandler: i have no plans th join mozilla team. i care for pwdhash and currently i touched adblock-plus.
<nixternal> I think for Ant, I have the last upload as well as the upstream patch to fix Ant...my first contrib to the Apache product, which for some reason I am extremely proud of
<nhandler> bdrung: So the extensions were more of a one time thing?
<bdrung> nhandler: i also want to package htmlvalidator.
<bdrung> nhandler: yes, it think so. but if i have time to i might touch more firefox extensions
<nhandler> bdrung: What route are you going to go to get htmlvalidator into the Ubuntu repositories?
<nixternal> firefox extensions? as in firefox addons?
<nhandler> Are you going to go through REVU? Or are you going to go through Debian and request a sync?
<bdrung> nhandler: through debian.
<nhandler> Yes nixternal
<nixternal> i never understood the reasoning to packaging addons when they are so easy to obtain already
<nhandler> bdrung: Very nice. Any reason that you did not get pwdhash uploaded in Debian?
<persia> nixternal, trust.
<persia> (as in I trust the ubuntu-mozillateam to audit plugins for safety during packaging, but don't necessarily trust some random site online)
<nhandler> nixternal: It also makes it easy to create meta packages that install many addons
<bdrung> nhandler: yes: mozilla-devscripts is not available in debian.
<nixternal> ya, I am still not sold, but that isn't up to me :)
<nhandler> bdrung: Very good reason ;)
<nixternal> anywho, bdrung nice sustained package contribs there
 * dholbach is all set with questions.
<dholbach> oh no... I have one more question
<persia> bdrung, You cite as the major thing you don't like in Ubuntu: "there are too many bugs".  How do you think this should be addressed?
<dholbach> bdrung: will we see a origami video of you on youtube? :-)
<nixternal> closing them all and telling everyone to start over! :p
<persia> Oh, and you can determine who sponsored something by checking the GPG key on the -changes list (or it should be listed with the new -changes message format)
<nixternal> dholbach: we better see that video now that you brought it up
<bdrung> persia: by helping fixing the bugs. :)
<persia> bdrung, So you feel that the reason for the bugs is more about lack of hands than about how the bugs are managed?
<bdrung> persia: partly.
<persia> bdrung, And partly?
<bdrung> persia: but i have no idea how to better manage the bug handling.
<dholbach> I guess he meant "partly the one and partly the other" :-)
<persia> heh.  That's a fair answer :)
<nhandler> bdrung: Did you have any problems or difficulties while learning the patching/packaging basics or while interacting with the team?
<bdrung> nhandler: nothing i can imagine of. at the beginning there were much to learn.
<dholbach> geser, nixternal, nhandler, persia: any more questions?
<bdrung> nhandler: but i could ask dholbach in real life.
<geser> no
<nixternal> I am good
<persia> I'm done
<nhandler> bdrung: So you have been active in the berlin loco?
<dholbach> bdrung: advantage of packaging/bug jams! :)
<bdrung> nhandler: yes.
<dholbach> nhandler: YES :)
<dholbach> [VOTE] Shall Benjamin Drung become Contributing Developer?
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Shall Benjamin Drung become Contributing Developer?.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<geser> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from geser. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<nhandler> +1
<nixternal> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from nhandler. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<MootBot> +1 received from nixternal. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<dholbach> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from dholbach. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<persia> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from persia. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 5
<dholbach> [endvote]
<MootBot> Final result is 5 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 5
<dholbach> CONGRATULATIONS!
 * dholbach hugs bdrung
<dholbach> :-)
<nixternal> congrats and welcome!
<bdrung> thanks.
 * nixternal hugs everyone
<dholbach> ok... so who takes care of doing the honours? I have to dash for dinner now
<nhandler> I will dholbach
<dholbach> but don't mind doing it when I get up ... in 11h or something, maybe LP works then :)
<dholbach> nhandler: ok... if you didn't get around to it, I'll do it :)
<dholbach> [TOPIC] Any other business.
<MootBot> New Topic:  Any other business.
<persia> nhandler, Good luck getting LP to do the right thing (but at least the "is to become a foo" emails can go)
<dholbach> thanks nhandler
<persia> I'm amused at using MootBot voting.  We seem to either be unanimous, or decide against.
<dholbach> Going once.
<nixternal> going twice
<dholbach> ... twice ...
<nixternal> sold to the monkey named dholbach!
<dholbach> Ok... adjourned!
<dholbach> hahaha
<nixternal> oops
<dholbach> thanks everybody!
<nixternal> no, thank you!
<dholbach> take care my friends - and see you tomorrow again, enjoy the celebrations!
<persia> nixternal, Didn't you read the email: "monkey" is considered a pejorative term.
<dholbach> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 13:29.
<nixternal> hrmm, so I should be more PC, is that what you are saying?
<dholbach> take care guys
<dholbach> DINNER!
<nixternal> mmm food
<persia> nixternal, Well, after the fuss over trying to call everyone "Ubuntu Code Monkeys", I thought you'd use other words.
<nixternal> hahahahaha, I liked that term though
<ScottK> IIRC the primary objection to UCM was it was considered unprofessional, not the it was pejorative.
<persia> Oh.  I thought it was both.
<ScottK> Could be.
<nixternal> and Masters Of The Universe is professional? :p
<ScottK> Picked before my time.
<cody-somerville> MOTU is going away anyhow, isn't it?
<nixternal> don't know yet...we were told no at UDS, that there would still be MOTU, but it would just be it a bit differently
<ScottK> There are some TBDs in the archive reorg spec that leave me uncertain on this.
<persia> I was fairly sure that the term "MOTU" was going to be left around for historical purposes only.
<persia> I could be mistaken, but I don't expect it to retain value to join in the future, nor do I expect it to be used to describe any sets of developers.
<nixternal> right, everyone was just going to be "Ubuntu Developer"
<persia> Well, I expect there to be other subgroups within that that have different rights, but yes.
<nixternal> the fact that people took the term "Code Monkey" and made it derogatory is a bit upsetting...I remember when it was a fun term that everyone used...then again, I might be showing my age ;p
<persia> The important thing is that nobody will be defined in a negative fashion, as MOTU is currently defined as "those developers that have permission to upload anything not part of the 'main' or 'restricted' components".
<StevenK> Puff, puff, I am late?
 * ogra moos
<GrueMaster> Yea, you missed it.
<lool> NCommander: ping
<lool> NCommander: ping
<lool> NCommander: ping
<lool> NCommander: ping
<lool> :-P
<ogra> heh
<NCommander> #startmeeting
 * ogra spilled wine over his kbd now
<MootBot> Meeting started at 16:02. The chair is NCommander.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
 * NCommander coughs
<NCommander> [topic] Action Item Review
<StevenK> ogra: Haha
<MootBot> New Topic:  Action Item Review
<NCommander> ogra, you shouldn't install Windows programs around your kids
<NCommander> [topic] NCommander to investigate 338148
<MootBot> New Topic:  NCommander to investigate 338148
<NCommander> no progress, c/o
<ogra> kids ? you mean cats ... no kids here
<persia> NCommander, No worries: it's a valid SRU target.
<NCommander> oh, I misread kbd for kids
<NCommander> ... and I pulled up the wrong meetings action items
<StevenK> Hah
<NCommander> oops
<NCommander> [topic] lool to chase VFP for cairo
<MootBot> New Topic:  lool to chase VFP for cairo
<lool> Wasn't this handled last week?
<lool> anyway, I sent my repo to Debian; need to actually upload it
<lool> it was too late for jaunty especially that intrusive
<lool> and the gtk+2.0 breakage was good reason not to upload cairo too
<NCommander> lool, last week you said you were going to try and get it in, hence why I left it there.
<lool> Ok
<lool> Well I mildly tried
 * NCommander strikes it
<NCommander> [topic]  lool to spec ec2-package-builder for jaunty+1 (co)
<MootBot> New Topic:   lool to spec ec2-package-builder for jaunty+1 (co)
 * ogra joins lool in tiredness
<lool> Good progress on this
<lool> I installed eucalyptus and sub-ed to amazon services; that made me understand a bunch of things
 * NCommander is extremely dead
<lool> I also compiled implementations ideas and researched various info such as which arch to use in the vms
 * NCommander would love to help work on this ...
<lool> Talked with server team folks as well; altogether good progress
<persia> You really ought add the spec to the KarmicSpecifications page :)
<lool> Now need to write a high level spec and I think it will be come an UDS spec
<lool> persia: Definitely
<lool> Actually I didn't take the time before the meeting, but I'd like to post my draft specs ideas for anybody to grab
<NCommander> lool, we're going to have a Draft Specification talk at the end
<NCommander> after the roadmap review
<lool> NCommander: perfect, thanks
<NCommander> [topic] NCommander to coordinate with lool and re-purpose hardening-wrapper to pass -Os on lpia builds (co)
<MootBot> New Topic:  NCommander to coordinate with lool and re-purpose hardening-wrapper to pass -Os on lpia builds (co)
<NCommander> Implemented. Its in the karmic chroots.
<lool> BTW [link]uBTW
<lool> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2009/20090423
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2009/20090423
<lool> NCommander: Well done
<NCommander> If anyone sees any funny breakage, point me at it
 * ogra feels skipped but doesnt really mind :P
<NCommander> I know a few packages are going to explode into little bitty bomb pieces
<NCommander> ogra, your at the end :-P (I haven't saved the page with the corrected action items)
<NCommander> [topic] GrueMaster to test newer version of Hildon Desktop to see if it resolves cat kills MID bug (co)
<MootBot> New Topic:  GrueMaster to test newer version of Hildon Desktop to see if it resolves cat kills MID bug (co)
<ogra> save it !
<GrueMaster> Now that release has happened, I can refocus on this.
<persia> Um, we ought chase RC bugs pre-release :)
<ogra> thanks :)
<NCommander> persia, that requires time :-/
<StevenK> post ?
<NCommander> GrueMaster, if you find a fix, we can probably SRU it if it isn't too bad.
<GrueMaster> That was my thinking.
<NCommander> or at the very least shove it in jaunty-backports
<NCommander> If its absolute crack.
<NCommander> [topic] ogra to test usplash at 800x600
<MootBot> New Topic:  ogra to test usplash at 800x600
<ogra> doesnt wokr
<GrueMaster> btw:  Thought I'd mention that maemo is poritng to QT backend.
<ogra> *work
<NCommander> ew :-/
<ogra> i registered https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/splashes-on-armel to chase that properly in karmic
<NCommander> ogra, additional bulletpoint
<NCommander> usplash karmic DOES work on powerpc
<NCommander> Which means it works with framebuffers
<ogra> sure jaunty surely also works on ppc
<NCommander> ogra, it works great :-)
<NCommander> er
<NCommander> usplash jaunty
<ogra> yes, with comon graphics HW
<lool> We need to find out why it's borken on babbage then
<NCommander> man, my brain has gone to mush
<lool> or move to plymouth
<lool> but > UDS
<ogra> lool, we will, its a karic spec now :)
<NCommander> lool, do we have a /dev/fb0 device in the initramfs?
<NCommander> That could be the problem.
<lool> NCommander: Could be
<NCommander> anyway
 * ogra wants his m back *whine*
<NCommander> [topic] ogra to trim selection-of-arm-images to a smaller scope (co)
<lool> CONFIG_FB=y
<MootBot> New Topic:  ogra to trim selection-of-arm-images to a smaller scope (co)
<lool> CONFIG_FB_MXC=y
<NCommander> lool, you usually need a driver to go with it
<ogra> i'm not sure that makes sense now that we build on cdimage
<NCommander> lool, hrm ... *shrug*
<ogra> nor the next topic
<NCommander> We have a lot of iMX51 images
<NCommander> Anyone want one for Xubuntu and Kubuntu (both work amazingly)
<ogra> right, all built on cdoimage
<NCommander> so also scratch the kernel one?
<ogra> the spec was about merging kernels manually with images
<lool> I'm not too happy that all armel images are imx51 images ATM; I would love some common image format and some "start installer" images
<lool> But that's also > UDS now
<ogra> and i dont think we'll need it anymore in karmic
<NCommander> lool, maybe draft a spec
<NCommander> [topic] ogra to rebuild gnome-keyring-daemon to troubleshoot 328167
<MootBot> New Topic:  ogra to rebuild gnome-keyring-daemon to troubleshoot 328167
<ogra> we can build images for all supported SoCs on cdimage
<persia> Yes.  Draft a spec :)
<ogra> no progress here ... was to busy with image testing and spec writing
<ogra> and i dont think it needs to be tracked on the meeting page anymore
<NCommander> ok
<ogra> i'll do that at some point as debugging task with upstream
<NCommander> [topic] Roadmap Review
<MootBot> New Topic:  Roadmap Review
<NCommander> [topic] offline-installer (ogra)
<MootBot> New Topic:  offline-installer (ogra)
<ogra> isnt that obsolete ?
<NCommander> ogasawara, the roadmap review?
<ogra> (roadmap review)
<persia> The entire roadmap is currently obsolete.
<ogra> yes
<persia> We just released.
<NCommander> ...
<NCommander> Uh ... ok
<ogra> lets move on to new specs
<NCommander> Works for me
<persia> We need to build a new roadmap.
<NCommander> FOr specs, I'm going to go around one by one to keep some sanity
<NCommander> any objections?
<persia> (that's where specs come in: please submit more)
<persia> Yes.
<NCommander> [topic] New Specification Discussion
<MootBot> New Topic:  New Specification Discussion
<NCommander> actually
<lool> bug #358762 was resolved
<persia> Let's just go through the list on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/KarmicSpecifications
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 358762 in initramfs-tools "update-initramfs trigger should run flash-kernel" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/358762
<ogra> was it on the roadmap ?
<lool> Yes
<ogra> we should probably still gop through the bugs
<NCommander> [topic] Information Specifications
<MootBot> New Topic:  Information Specifications
<NCommander> ogra, I'll swing back around
<persia> If anyone hasn't put something there yet, they're late (well, excepting the extension I just sent, but they didn't know that at tha start of the meeting)
<NCommander> [topic] mobile-qa-arm
<MootBot> New Topic:  mobile-qa-arm
<StevenK> Information*al*
<ogra> who is Al ?
 * NCommander sighs
<plars> I put in three informational ones for testplan/testcase development per a conversation with davidm
<NCommander> Ok, so we want those
<NCommander> [topic] Feature Specifications
<MootBot> New Topic:  Feature Specifications
<NCommander> [topic] arm-softboot-loader
<MootBot> New Topic:  arm-softboot-loader
<NCommander> We wanted it for jaunty, didn't get implemented. Probably something we still want for karmic
<NCommander> Any objections?
<ogra> needs a lot more research prior UDS this time
<NCommander> ogra, indeed
<ogra> there are tons of impleentations out there that havent been taken into account ...
<ogra> +m
<lool> Do we really want to go over each candidate spec now?  we're going to add sessions and review the full list before UDS anyway
<NCommander> ogra, well debian-arm guys are rolling their own
<ogra> right, and they need approval
<NCommander> lool, I'm open to suggestions on how to do this.
<ogra> currently they are just suggestiuons
<persia> I don't think we have to go over them all.
<persia> Anyway, we're about 40 specs short.
<NCommander> Indeed :-/
<lool> NCommander: I think we can bring up concerns we have here if anybody has any, but we don't need to go through all of them all together
<persia> So, instead of going over them, we should all go write some more specs.
<GrueMaster> We have a quota?
 * ogra added 7
<plars> do we have a list of specs we know about, that just need to be written in case others might be able to help?
 * NCommander has a few, but only one is even Mobile related
<NCommander> :-/
<lool> GrueMaster: Oh you weren't told about the quota
<StevenK> I'm at 5 or so
<persia> GrueMaster, We have 50-60 time/room slots at UDS.  We may not fill them all, but if we can fill them, we can use them.  Otherwise, someone else gets the slots.
<GrueMaster> ok
<lool> plars: We have some topics which we know need to be covered
<persia> plars, It's the "Ideas" section on the KarmicSpecifications page.
<ogra> we have one new person starting onday in the tea btw
<ogra> +mm
<lool> Yup
 * NCommander just got a specification idea
<plars> persia: you mean the topics for discussion? I don't have an ideas section there
<NCommander> I think we need a mobile-community-involvement to try and generate ideas of a better way of getting the community involved.
<lool> plars: I have a bunch of specs ideas
<persia> plars, Right.  Sorry.  I'm not in an ideal timezone for this meeting time.
<lool> http://paste.ubuntu.com/156765/
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://paste.ubuntu.com/156765/
<lool> there's some crach too
<persia> who volunteers to copy lool's crack into the wiki page?
<StevenK> OH! Translations!
 * NCommander loves Loic's ideas
<NCommander> Oh darn
<lool> StevenK: the UNR folks mentionned they want a session on it
<NCommander> I just realized something we haven't done yet
<StevenK> lool: *I* want a session on it
<StevenK> lool: "fitting UNR apps in 600 and 480 screens
<StevenK> lool: that already exists
<plars> uh
<plars> 480 or 576?
<NCommander> Neither GrueMaster or plars are members of ubuntu-mobile; I think we should vote to add them.
<StevenK> I don't mention size in the spec
<plars> I thought I got added a while back actually
<ogra> StevenK, add a11y to that too :)
<ogra> StevenK, i know TheMuso is intrested in it on UNR
 * GrueMaster feels left out
<StevenK> ogra: Good point
<persia> NCommander, Needs application and agenda item.  Maybe next week.
 * NCommander adds it to action items
<persia> Not action items.  Agenda items.
<NCommander> Oh
<NCommander> persia, do we have a formal process for membership?
<persia> Yes.
<ogra> yes
<lool> StevenK: 576 is actually the screen size of the dell mini9
<plars> lool: mini 10
<NCommander> link?
<plars> mini 9 is 600
<lool> I always thought people were saying 576 because they were taking 600 minus panel size
 * NCommander is not finding it on google
<persia> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam
<ogra> lool, me too, until i learned its actually the glass size
<lool> plars: ah right sorry
<lool> ogra: yeah
<ogra> edavid convinced me in berlin :)
<lool> StevenK: might make sense to target 576 and perhaps 480
<ogra> *david
<lool> there's a project in GNOME to support netbook perhaps down to 480 currently
<lool> It will likely start with an usability study
<ogra> oh really ?
<persia> I think 480 is a good target.  I have 2 laptops that are 480 vertical.
<lool> ogra: Yeah, on mobile-devel-list
<ogra> i'm on that or arent i ?
<lool> http://live.gnome.org/UsabilityProject/UsabilityTests/Netbooks
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://live.gnome.org/UsabilityProject/UsabilityTests/Netbooks
 * ogra checks
<lool> (I proposed the first 4/5 bullet points   :-P)
<ogra> oh, not -devel ... just -obile
<ogra> hmm, no, actually devel
 * ogra sees lool's posts 
<lool> Ok anything else WRT specs?
<lool> apart of we really need to complete their filing
<lool> NCommander: moving on to induction votes?
<ogra> well
<NCommander> I thought we had to do it next meeting
 * NCommander is all for doing it this meeting htough
<persia> We do.
<lool> Ok I'm fine with that
<lool> I'm not around next meeting :)
<ogra> i wonder why we started to only have one sigle session on each spec with last UDS
<NCommander> persia, why do we have to wait until next meeting? (stupid question ...)
<persia> It's too early for me to remember clearly.
<lool> NCommander: the first rule in ubuntu mobile club...
<ogra> we used to have at least the possibility to have more than one slot
<persia> Something about preparing things.
<persia> ogra, We still have the possibility of more than one slot.
<StevenK> We still do, it just isn't by default
<ogra> with the last UDS that turnbed impossible because we had one spec for each booked slot
<persia> It's just that most specs don't need it, so one has to ask special.
<GrueMaster> Aren't I already a member?  I've been working with ubuntu-mobile since 2007.
<ogra> persia, not if we file the other 40 specs you request
<ogra> since we'll fill all our slots
<ogra> i'd really like to propose to keep at least 10 spare slots
<lool> GrueMaster: You're not apparently
<ogra> so we can have two or more sessions for specs that need it
<lool> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mobile/+members
<persia> ogra, If we get 60 proposals, it's likely that some won't get accepted.
<NCommander> GrueMaster, membership means your in ~ubuntu-mobile, so you get write access to our Bazaar branches and so on.
<lool> [link] https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mobile/+members
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mobile/+members
<NCommander> Its why I realized we need to get your membership processed.
<ogra> persia, its still a sacrily huge amount
<persia> ogra, Don't worry about it.  Let the ideas flow.  We can trim as needed.
<ogra> persia, i dont expect the team to be able to finish 40 specs
<ogra> (if we drop 30 of 70 or so)
<persia> I don't want to not document a good idea just because you don't think someone can finish it.
<ogra> no, thats fine
<persia> At UDS we can determine what can get done, and what can't.
<persia> Post UDS, we can trim the roadmap to what we can do in Karmic, and what needs to be deferred.
<ogra> but i'd like us to be more careful with the selection and the amount of slots this time
<persia> Pre-UDS we should merge everything, and do research.
<ogra> if a topic is worth three sessions, we should have them
<lool> Agreed
<ogra> we restricted us to one per spec last UDS
<persia> That's fine.  That's why I want the specs *now*, so there's time to review them.
<ogra> and that was stressfull
<lool> The previous UDS was filled with sessions, but in the end we didn't implement that many specs
<ogra> and didnt really result in good ones
<ogra> right
<ogra> cut down quantity for quality
<persia> Well part of that was because most of the specs were not even properly started when we got to UDS.
<persia> This way we have a month to do the research, and can have more productive sessions.
<ogra> i worked my ass off in advance for the touchscreen spec ...
<ogra> its not true that such specs werent prepared well
<ogra> its just a matter of time constraint
<persia> ogra, Some of them.  Not that one.
<ogra> we did have to do a lot of unspecced work sadly
<ogra> but we should try to make our planning take such stuff into account for next round
<persia> RIght, which is why I want *all* the specs now.
<persia> Then we can pick and choose.
<ogra> right, but if we have a similar workload next release we should limit to max two specs per person
<ogra> and pick the right ones
<ogra> and work them out very deeply
<persia> Sure.  No issues.
<persia> Let's trim, but let's get the list together first.
<ogra> sure
<persia> Stick in anything you think would be good.  We get as many specs as possible from as many people as possible, and following a guideline like 2 per person means we can get lots more done.
<lool> Any other topic for today?
<ogra> doesnt look like
<lool> Ok; let's idle here for some 20 minutes
<ogra> for doing what ?
<lool> Idling
<NCommander> [topic] Open Discussion
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open Discussion
<ogra> hooray ...
<NCommander> Should we just do membership now? Or should I #endmeeting
<NCommander> ...
<NCommander> ah, well
<NCommander> meeting going once
<NCommander> meeting going twice
<NCommander> meeting going three times
<NCommander> Thank you all for attending, and thank you all for your hard work in jaunty
<NCommander> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 16:45.
<ogra> how far do you count ?
<lool>  _,  _   _   _|           o  _, |)  _|_
<ogra> ah
<lool> | / \_/ \_/ |     /|/|  | / | |/\  |
<lool> Argh ruined
<NCommander> lool, O_o;
<lool> it's ruined
<ogra> sorry
<lool>  _,  _   _   _|           o  _, |)  _|_
<lool> | / \_/ \_/ |     /|/|  | / | |/\  |
<lool> \/|/\_/ \_/ \/|_/    | |_/|/\/|/|  |/|_/
<lool>  (|                          (|
<ogra> hm
<plars> fail
<ogra> didnt work anyway
<NCommander> Interesting abstract art
<lool>                                         
<lool>  _,  _   _   _|           o  _, |)  _|_
<lool> / | / \_/ \_/ |     /|/|  | / | |/\  |
<lool> \/|/\_/ \_/ \/|_/    | |_/|/\/|/|  |/|_/
<lool>  (|                          (|
<lool> ah
<lool> there it goes, stupid /
<NCommander> I still have no idea what "it"'s supposed to be
<ogra> night lool
<StevenK> NCommander: "good night" in ASCII cursive art
<NCommander> Oh, its a bed!
<ogra> NCommander, steop away from your monitor
<NCommander> Oh
<ogra> a meter at least
 * NCommander doesn't have a meter behind him
<NCommander> !
<StevenK> Punch through the wall?
<NCommander> wow
<NCommander> Thats cool
<lool> NCommander: http://people.ubuntu.com/~lool/n.png
 * ogra says that too ... and goes afk 
#ubuntu-meeting 2009-04-24
<gnomefreak> i think jockey is broke on jaunty :( it wontactivate the drivers
<gnomefreak> damn wrong channel
#ubuntu-meeting 2009-04-26
<dvz-> for anyone interested, UF-BT dev group is having a meeting/discussion to regarding a "Job Posting" project to provide another way to get other people involved that may not know how.  Join us in ##beginners-dev if you have ideas or thoughts or just want to sit in.
#ubuntu-meeting 2010-04-26
<LinkinX64_> hello!
<BlackZ> showard, huats ping
<showard> hey i'm here
<BlackZ> RoAkSoAx is absent
<BlackZ> wait again a while
<BlackZ> otherwise, if he will be again absent, we will start
<huats> I am here too
<huats> but not really available
<huats> well a bit :)
<BlackZ> OK, can we start?
<showard> Yes, you can start the mootbot thing if you'd like
<huats> sure
<BlackZ> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 10:07. The chair is BlackZ.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<BlackZ> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Mentoring/Reception/Meeting
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Mentoring/Reception/Meeting
<BlackZ> [TOPIC] Review ACTION points from previous sessions.
<MootBot> New Topic:  Review ACTION points from previous sessions.
<showard> I think our only action points were to type up the notes fromlast time
<huats> showard, Ithink so
<showard> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Mentoring/Reception/Meeting/Minutes
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Mentoring/Reception/Meeting/Minutes
<BlackZ> OK
<BlackZ> so, do you want to start, showard ?
<showard> If the notes are ok, we canmove to thenext topic
<showard> Ok, at the end of the previous meeting, we were discussing about possible having a system where mentors pick their mentees
<showard> this way the number and quality of mentees would be visible. However, hauts pointed out that it was not allowed in the past
<showard> to avoid creating "pockets" of knowledge where mentors and mentees would possible communicate outside of public channels and not in english
<BlackZ> showard: yes
<huats> I am strongly against the idea of letting the mentee choose the mentor
<huats> :)
<showard> Ok, I'll defer to hauts experience on that one! I can see benefits in both, but don't feel strongly eitherway
<BlackZ> agree with huats, for clear reasons
<showard> Ok, so mentee selection will go through reception
<showard> [AGREED]  mentee selection will go through reception, self selection not allowed
<showard> eh, i think only the chair could do that
<BlackZ> +1 from me
<showard> Continuing on. hauts: how do you recruit mentors?
<huats> showard, sorry
<huats> I am a bit away
<showard> (np, you told us you were busy before - whenever you get to it, we can talk about something else)
<huats> 1 way to recruit
<huats> to ask
<huats> :)
<huats> on many channels
<huats> mainly ubuntu-devel
<huats> but I also think it might be wise to contact every new developer (after they have been granted) to explain them the process
<huats> showard, BlackZ any other idea ?
<showard> That pretty much is the standard way of doing things. Hopefully it'll get some buzz on it's own (if it's successful).
<BlackZ> huats: yes, it can be a way to recruit
<showard> We also can point people to the mentee bugs, even if someone isn't interested in becoming a mentor, it might be easy to just look through the applicants - maybe someone would do it even if they weren't interested at first
<showard> because they see someone they sponsored or someone interested in a similar area
<BlackZ> showard: yes, that's a way too
<BlackZ> other idea?
<showard> Hopefully that will be sustainable. How about "packaging training" people? We could introduce that as a way for new MOTUs and devels to take some higher level responsibility in the ubuntu project
<BlackZ> showard: yes, agree with it
<huats> YES
<huats> it is something I'd like to raise
<showard> This way we aren't always leaning on the same people every month. New MOTUs and devels tend to have a good amount of "energy"and not a lot of responsibility, usually
<huats> since I've talked about it with dholbach
<huats> we should contact https://edge.launchpad.net/~packaging-training-coordinators
<dholbach> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Packaging/Training
<huats> :)
<huats> thanks daniel
<dholbach> if you want to join the coordinators or give a session, any kind of help is appreciated
<showard> we were thinking of leveraging those packaging training sessions and also trying to increase the number of people giving sessions. That would be the first place we'd point mentees to
<huats> There is also the Ubuntu Beginners Development Focus group who have contacted me
<huats> if would be good to act with them
<BlackZ> huats: yes, it would
<showard> Yes, I think we shouldn't reinvent the wheel but to give support to and improve infrastructure that already exists
<BlackZ> showard: indeed ^
<showard> Ok, I think we have a structure for what we see the mentoring program to be like within the designated development team structure. I think we should write up a proposal of what we've discussed
<BlackZ> sure showard
<BlackZ> what's the next item?
<showard> I think we're done with the "continued from last meeting"
<BlackZ> OK, then we can go ahead
<showard> we're up to discussion of implementation, namely that we should go ahead an write up that proposal
<showard> once we all agree on it, we can get feedback from potential mentors, the development teams, packaging training people, beginner's focus group, and eventually the DMB
<showard> I think we should split up the writing of the proposal - blackz, hauts, would you have time this week?
<huats> showard, honnestly I wont
<BlackZ> showard: sure - in the evening, except wednesday
<huats> I have 2 very very busy weeks
<BlackZ> s/evening/morning
<huats> I would be able to read them/react
<showard> Sure, np hauts.  BlackZ: we can do iton ourown,don't need to schedule
<huats> but not to write that formally sorry
<huats> showard, it is huats btw not hauts :)
<showard> (my spacebar is weak today, sorry!)
<BlackZ> OK showard
<showard> The outline being: (1) motivation and general overview, (2) process for mentees, (3) process for mentors, (4) relationships with other teams
<showard> What do you think? (I kind of just made that up, might not be optimal)
<BlackZ> showard: it's a good idea, eventually we can add any other
<showard> Sure, would you want to start (1) and (2), I'll take (3) and (4)? Since i've been doing most of the writing, I think it is best if we can see the "general overview" without filtering it through my head again (make sure we all are on the same page)
<BlackZ> showard: yes, I will, also, we can discuss of them on the next meeting
<showard> good plan, we can write it up this week and next week's agenda could be to approve it, internally, and make the plan on how to approach people to get feedback
<showard> I think we've covered the agenda for the day
<showard> the action items: make a wiki page for the proposal, showard and blackz will start filling it in, other team members review it throughout the week so we can approve it next monday
<showard> any other things to cover?
<BlackZ> sorry, crashed
<showard> no problem. If there isn't any new news or topics, I think blackz can bring the hammerdown
<showard> (as in closing the meeting with a gavel)
<showard> ok, I think we can #endmeeting
<BlackZ> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:53.
<BlackZ> thanks all
<showard> great! ok, we'll coordinate on email. BlackZ, could you start the wiki page in our /MOTU/Mentoring/Reception/[newpage]space? I'll do the minutes again unless someone else wants to
<BlackZ> showard: I will
<kees> jdstrand, mdeslaur: meetin' time?
<jjohansen> \o
<kees> heya jjohansen
<mdeslaur> kees: I'm back
<kees> mdeslaur: cool.  robbiew, you joining us too?
<robbiew> kees: only in spirit...;)
<kees> hehe
 * robbiew is reminded to work on the job posting
<robbiew> bah!
<jdstrand> o/
<jdstrand> kees, mdeslaur: here now
<kees> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 12:12. The chair is kees.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<kees> [TOPIC] stand-up report
<MootBot> New Topic:  stand-up report
<kees> I'll be checking in with the kernel team on the next security update
<kees> and then grinding out blueprints, which I'd like to cover later in this meeting.
<kees> we also need to review the job req, it needs to be fine-tuned.
<kees> (also later)
<kees> that's it from me, really.  mdeslaur is up.
<mdeslaur> okie
<mdeslaur> I released ffmpeg regression fixes this morning
<mdeslaur> am currently working on texlive-bin
<mdeslaur> and will do dvipng
<mdeslaur> looked at the postgresql updates that weren't build for -security and needs to sort that out with someone called "kees"
<mdeslaur> and will go down list
 * kees noticed that in back-scroll.  which CVE was it?
<mdeslaur> that's it
<mdeslaur> kees: CVE-2010-0442
<ubottu> The bitsubstr function in backend/utils/adt/varbit.c in PostgreSQL 8.0.23, 8.1.11, and 8.3.8 allows remote authenticated users to cause a denial of service (daemon crash) or have unspecified other impact via vectors involving a negative integer in the third argument, as demonstrated by a SELECT statement that contains a call to the substring function for a bit string, related to an "overflow." (http://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvename.cgi?name=CVE-20
<jdstrand> that is fairly vague
<kees> that really doesn't ring a bell; or if that IS the issue, it wasn't well understood at the time.  :(
<mdeslaur> it's for sure an authenticated user server DoS
<kees> yeah
<mdeslaur> and may be an integer underflow also
<mdeslaur> although it's unclear how exploitable it is
<kees> it should go to security; a simple rebuild should be fine.
<mdeslaur> so either we rebuild all the postgresql packages for -security, or we don't consider it important enough and can wait until the next batch of postgresql updates
<kees> looks like 2010-0733 needs to be published too?
<mdeslaur> 2010-0733 was actually fixed by the _previous_ postgresql release
<kees> and there are some for -8.3 too
<kees> oh
<mdeslaur> which did go to security
<jdstrand> sounds somewhere between a low and a medium
<jdstrand> I vote fix it
<kees> hrm, so the state of CVEs for postgresql-* needs to be rechecked.
<kees> yeah.
<mdeslaur> kees: I just did them all
<mdeslaur> kees: update your tree
<kees> oh, /me refreshes
<kees> since it's already tested, it should be a quick publication.
<mdeslaur> kees: so you don't recall your discussion with pitti?
<kees> mdeslaur: I remember it vaguely.  something about it must not have been well-understood at the time.  as it stands now, it should go to -security
<mdeslaur> ok, sounds good. any volunteers? (or did I just volunteer? :) )
<jdstrand> I can do it
<kees> and with that, it's jdstrand's turn...
<jdstrand> I want to check the qrt tests on lucid anyway-- and it'll give my a chance to look at it
<jdstrand> s/my/me/
<mdeslaur> ok, cool jdstrand
<mdeslaur> thanks
<jdstrand> oh sure-- this is a pretty easy one-- lot's of testing already done :)
<jdstrand> so, this week I plan to do the postgresql update
<jdstrand> :P
<kees> hehe
<mdeslaur> lol
<jdstrand> along with that, there is a pending netpbm-free update I need to publish, and also I'm working on koffice (embedded xpdf 2.0 vulns in the kword importer)
<jdstrand> I am finishing up install audits today
<jdstrand> that's it for me
<kees> cool, great
<kees> [topic] blueprints for UDS
<MootBot> New Topic:  blueprints for UDS
<kees> so, we need to get our blueprints finished by the end of the week
<kees> we should at least renew the stuff that can deferred, and then add anything else fun we want to do.
<kees> robbiew: do you have any new projects you want us to have as blueprints?
<kees> jjohansen: can you convert your mental AppArmor TODO list into a blueprint?
<mdeslaur> kees: do we have a scratch area somewhere to post ideas that we can do through and clean up?
<robbiew> kees: no way
<robbiew> lol
<jjohansen> urgh, I can try
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: we can do that outside of this meeting
<jjohansen> it actually largely already exists in the wiki as a list of work items
<jdstrand> I too, would like to do that
<mdeslaur> jjohansen: the security team is not going to accept your "get into mainline" blueprint :)
<kees> jjohansen: which wiki page?
<kees> mdeslaur: we don't yet have a scratch area.  let's create that, then double-check it tomorrow?
<mdeslaur> kees: sounds good
<jjohansen> https://apparmor.wiki.kernel.org/index.php/DevelopmentRoadmap
<jjohansen> https://apparmor.wiki.kernel.org/index.php/WorkItems
<kees> notes on blueprints are here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UDS-M  names must be "security-m-foo"
<kees> I figure we can create the blueprints that we know will exist, and the rest of our ideas we can put in the brain-dump wiki
 * jdstrand thinks there may be a name collision or two
<kees> where 'foo' is replaced!  :P
<jdstrand> oh!
<jdstrand> :P
<kees> :)
<mdeslaur> kees: I'd like to discuss all my ideas before we commit to creating them
<kees> how about here for brain-dump: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UDS/M
<jdstrand> wfm
<kees> mdeslaur: sure, that's fine.  I have at least one (fscaps for dpkg) that I know can be a full blueprint
<mdeslaur> kees: does that page not exist yet?
<jdstrand> we should move https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UDS to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UDS/L btw
<kees> mdeslaur: right, I was proposing a location for it.  wanted it public, since we've traditionally done it in the canonical wiki, which isn't optimal.
<kees> jdstrand: yes
<kees> okay, so, anything else on blueprints we can take out-of-meeting.
<mdeslaur> ok
<kees> [topic] open job req
<MootBot> New Topic:  open job req
<kees> I sent a rough-draft, based on the prior posting.  at least one thing needed to be added: familiarity with web programming, or something to that effect.
<kees> any other additions/changes?
<jdstrand> let me reread it real quick
<mdeslaur> web programming and web security issues
<kees> right, yes.
<mdeslaur> ie: web code auditing
<jdstrand> kees, mdeslaur: I think the "Analyze, fix, and test vulnerabilities in Ubuntu packages" should be adjusted for this
<mdeslaur> kees, jdstrand: we should probably add python programming
<jdstrand> perhaps "requires good skills in web programming languages such as php and python, as well as good skills in C and thorough test planning)
<kees> mdeslaur: yeah, it only lightly hints at it in the "testing with python-unit" bit
<kees> jdstrand: yeah
<mdeslaur> jdstrand: how about: "requires good skills in web programming languages such as php, as well as good skills in C, python, and thorough test planning
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: seems good
<mdeslaur> "enjoys working on webkit"
<jdstrand> hehe
 * jdstrand wonders if java should be a part of all that
<kees> okay, how about we play pastebin-tag with revisions today out-of-meeting and get a final version to robbie by EOD today?
<jdstrand> sure
<mdeslaur> ok
<kees> jdstrand: while tempting, I don't think we have enough evidence to suggest we need to specifically call it out yet.
<kees> [topic] other stuff!
<MootBot> New Topic:  other stuff!
<kees> anyone have anything else for the security team?
<jdstrand> maybe, though a *lot* of java was pulled in for euca and the java server stack...
<jdstrand> though I would hate to have someone who only really knew java
<kees> jdstrand: yeah.  I'm suspicious as well, but I don't want to make the position unhirable.  :)
<jdstrand> heh
<mdeslaur> the jre gets a lot of security issues, but java applications aren't that bad
<kees> that's my gut too.  I only remember 1 in recent history (the hash test truncation thingy)
<mdeslaur> well, tomcat has a lot, but it's a web server
<kees> right
<mdeslaur> ok, I'm done
<mdeslaur> anyone else?
<mdeslaur> going once...
<mdeslaur> twice...
<kees> sold!
<kees> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 12:41.
<mdeslaur> sold to the lady with the blue hat!
<kees> hehehe
<jdstrand> o/
#ubuntu-meeting 2010-04-27
<kaushal> hi
<kaushal> I am kaushal would like to become a member of Ubuntu
<kaushal> I have achieved migrating windows users to ubuntu users in my organization
<kaushal> I work for webaroo
<kaushal> what are the rules which i need to follow ?
<persia> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership
<kaushal> persia: Thanks
<BasicXP> hello! it this the channel the ubuntu regional board will hold it's meeting today?
<persia> BasicXP: yes, but not for about 6 and a half hours.
<nhandler> persia: Why isn't it on the Fridge?
<persia> nhandler: Dunno.  It used to be there.
<ajmitch> no doubt there'll need to be some appointments to that membership board soonish
<persia> Indeed.  The period of nominations is ending soon, and the nominees will be forwarded to the CC.  The precise timing of the end of the nomination period depends on my TODO list, but it's likely to be within the next ~8 hours.
<ajmitch> ah, I thought it had closed last week
<persia> It probably officially closed last week, but I haven't forwarded them yet :)
 * persia will soonish.
<ajmitch> right :)
<ajmitch> I hope you have enough nominations for a stable team
 * persia too
<persia> Hrm.  Seems we didn't get as many as we'd have liked :(  Anyway, nominations really closed now.
 * ajmitch didn't really want to step forward for that
<persia> Not many did, unfortunately.
 * persia peers about
<persia> lifeless: amachu: elky: TheMuso: freeflying: hey!  We're on!
<elky> oh, so we are.
<elky> our vict^Wapplicant isn't here though, that I can see anyway.
<elky> been offline for 6hrs now according to nickserv.
<persia> Right.  I remember the departure message, and left a hint (a bit too late) about the time, in case logs were checked.
<persia> Ah, will be half an hour late, according to the wiki.
<persia> Maybe we'll have quorum then :)
<BasicXP> Hello! Excuse me for being late
<BasicXP> Is the meeting going now?
<persia> We were waiting for you :)
 * persia goes off to hunt missing board members
<persia> freeflying: Hey.  You about?
<BasicXP> Thank you, persia!
<persia> Several folks seem to be offline, unfortunately.
<persia> amachu!
<persia> Hey!
<amachu> persia: Hi
<amachu> persia: hope, there wasn't a candiate for membership..
<persia> There is, but BasicXP was also a bit late, so we're all good.
<elky> lifeless is in the process of trading countries, so I think we can excuse him. we only need to find one more though
<persia> We have four.
<elky> we do?
<persia> TheMuso has joined.
<elky> ah. so he did.
<BasicXP> School made it impossible to attend the meeting from the beginning :(
<amachu> BasicXP ok!
<persia> BasicXP: No worries.  We weren't all here.
<elky> that's ok. pretend the lateness never happened. Introduce yourself :)
<persia> BasicXP: So, why don't you introduce yourself
<BasicXP> My name is Roman
<BasicXP> I was contributing to Launchpad since 2008
<BasicXP> Translating different projects
<BasicXP> Later, I was accepted into Russian LoCo and began my work there
<BasicXP> Doing most of the work in summer
<BasicXP> That's in short the "biography" of myself.
<BasicXP> Is there abything I should tell more about?
<BasicXP> * anything
<persia> BasicXP: What sort of work have you been doing in the LoCo?
<BasicXP> Mostly translation of the operating system, tried to organize the Moscow LoCo. Also partly responsible for bug tracking and Wikipedia editing.
<amachu> BasicXP: Wikipedia editing?
<BasicXP> Yeah, that includes grammar correction and translation.
<persia> http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ubuntu_Linux ?
<BasicXP> I'm meaning both wiki.ubuntu.com and help.ubuntu.ru (Russian WiKi)
<BasicXP> Mostly the second one
<elky> Ah, wiki not wikipedia.
<BasicXP> And I did make a change or two to the Wikipedia's page
<BasicXP> Oh sorry. "Wikipedia" - my fault
<elky> That's ok, we figured it out.
<persia> BasicXP: Did you bring anyone to cheer for you today?
<BasicXP> Not now, but if you give me a minute or two I'll try to reach one of my colleagues
<persia> Sure :)
<BasicXP> Waiting for his answer...
<BasicXP> While waiting, may I ask you a question?
<persia> Sure.
<BasicXP> How active should I be to be an Ubuntu Member? I mean what activities should I've been doing before to qualify?
<elky> You can be active anywhere directly within the ubuntu community. We like to see several months of activity, not just a few weeks. The idea is "significant and sustained"
<persia> What you do doesn't matter.  That said, you should have been active within the Ubuntu community in a visible way, that your peers see as significant, and have been doing this in a sustained manner.  There's no firm timeframe, but most successful applicants have at least two months, and often six months or more of active contributions to demonstrate this.
<BasicXP> Okay. Is the activity I had enough to qualify?
<persia> BasicXP: That's what we're looking at :)
<amachu_> there should have been continous activity (properly tracked to make things easier for us) any where, for Ubuntu
<amachu_> got off for a while due to power shut down..
<BasicXP> Well just the point, that I had most activity in summer, makes me concerned.
<persia> BasicXP: So one thing that's confusing me is that you seem to be fairly active in translations, but LP is only telling me about the last couple week's work (and you joined the translations team nearly a year ago, so I presume there's more).  Any idea where I can find it?
<BasicXP> Most of the work was done from april 2008. I was told that history gets cleared each amount of time  and karma gets lower
<BasicXP> Because i remembered to have a screenshot where i had it around 3000 or so
<persia> Oh lovely.  That makes it very easy for us.
 * persia takes a note to file a bug
<persia> BasicXP: So, the work on help.ubuntu.ru looks like a fair bit, your translations history was annoyingly scrubbed.  Your answers/bugs history is of mixed value (not so much successful triage or questions considered answered).
<amachu> BasicXP: Is there a place where we could find a link on your contributions to Russian Ubuntu Wiki..
<elky> BasicXP, is it possible to see that screenshot?
<BasicXP> I'm afraid I deleted that one a long time ago :(
<persia> Speaking personally, I'd like to see some testimonials on your wiki page from other folks to confirm you've done lots, and they consider you an important part of Ubuntu.
<amachu> BasicXP: I am looking forward to know, how many help pages you would have written etc.,
<BasicXP> amachu: I'm mostly translating pages, not writing them
 * persia definitely sees evidence of activity in team meetings
<amachu> BasicXP: fine.. how many of them have you done roughly etc.,
<BasicXP> umm... i didn't do much translation on wiki maybe about just 5, i did most work in launchpad
<amachu> BasicXP: the rosetta translations are your main contributions. am I right?
<BasicXP> yes
<amachu> BasicXP: has anyone turned out now to support you?
<BasicXP> Yes, here is Agafonov1. He may probably support me.
<Agafonov1> Hi!
<Agafonov1> I'm from Russian LoCo
<amachu> TheMuso: listening?
<TheMuso> amachu: yes
<amachu> TheMuso: ok..
<TheMuso> Hrm we are almost out of time.
<amachu> Agafonov1: are you continuing?
<Agafonov1> BasicXP: helped us mostly during meetings to shape our internal tasks and processes, he help to work with translation bugs a lot accepting them via email from our testing community.
<Agafonov1> As far as I know he made some transltations in rosetta
<Agafonov1> currently we are talking about further activity
<amachu> Agafonov1: how continuos were they & would you cheer BasicXP for a membership?
<Agafonov1> because he wants to help more
<amachu> persia: TheMuso: elky: Shall we take up voting?
<persia> Sure.
<TheMuso> Sure.
<elky> yep
<Agafonov1> err, i'm too slow on writing :(
<Agafonov1> yes
<elky> Agafonov1, you have more to say?
<Agafonov1> go on, thanks
 * persia is pointed at https://translations.launchpad.net/~basicxp/+activity by the helpful folks in #launchpad
<Agafonov1> mmm, you may continue I meant :)
<elky> persia, ok wow. thanks
<elky> persia, and why on earth do they hide that?
<persia> Saves DB query time, I suspect.
<elky> persia, i can understand not for default view, but... a link is too much to ask?
<persia> It's behind the "See all" link at https://translations.launchpad.net/people/+me
<elky> ah
<persia> We just didn't see the link because it's on the lower right.
<elky> Oh, So it is.
<TheMuso> Ok so shall we vote?
<elky> Ok, ready to vote now?
 * persia is still ready
<elky> +1 from me
<persia> +1 from me: good work with Loco, long history of translations
<amachu> +1 from me too.. Plea update the wiki page to make understanding easier..
<amachu> Agafonov1: you can also add you testimonials there..
<TheMuso> +1 from me.
<Agafonov1> amachu: ok
<elky> unanimous!
<persia> BasicXP: Congratulations!
<amachu> great! Welcome BasicXP !
<BasicXP> Thank you very much!
<Agafonov1> Thanks!
<BasicXP> I really appreciate this.
<elky> We appreciate your help.
<BasicXP> Your welcome!
<persia> Sorry it took so long: please do update your wiki page to make it easier for folks to understand what you do.
<BasicXP> okay
<amachu> persia: though this is not in Agenda, I wasn't following closely the thread by Daniel Holbach on our extension..
<amachu> saw you reply to that on nominations, what were they?
<persia> We only had four, we need more.
<amachu> four in the sense? I need to look at archives to understand that really...
<elky> amachu, are you going to run?
<amachu> elky: nope.. but I wish the resposibility of Secretary to be taken up by some one else..
<amachu> elky: but.. since I didn't follow that thread closely, I wanted to ask..
<BasicXP> May I leave now or there is something I should say/do first?
<elky> BasicXP, you're free to go.
<amachu> BasicXP: you can.. nothing pending from your end, that to keep up your good work...
<BasicXP> Thank you very much once more! I'll keep improving. Good bye!
<elky> But do make sure your wiki is improved before sunday when the next UWN will go out. Otherwise people won't know what you got approved for ;)
<BasicXP> Okay sure, elky. Is there any place I can look up the IRC log?
<elky> !logs
<ubottu> Official channel logs can be found at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ - For LoCo channels, http://logs.ubuntu-eu.org/freenode/
<elky> the first link ^^
<BasicXP> Thank you!
 * BasicXP is editing his Wiki page now.
<amachu> persia: elky: TheMuso: Are we discussing something else, or shall we take it up in the list?
<persia> Do we have anything else to discuss?
<BasicXP> Just how should I edit the wiki page?
<persia> Anyone who wants to remain on the board ought nominate themselves, or convince someone else to nominate them.
<TheMuso> Afaik the discussion was about nominations. I don't intend to run for board membership again either.
<elky> I'm willing to run, I just kept forgetting to nominate myself
<amachu> elky: me too..
<BasicXP> Should I add another block like "Ubuntu Membership" or add information to the existing ones?
<amachu> but I want some one else to take up the Secretary role :-)
<amachu> TheMuso: Oh!
<elky> BasicXP, look at other people's profile wikis on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/RegionalBoards/AsiaOceania and fix your own up to be more like theirs.
<BasicXP> Thanks elky!
<elky> amachu, we'll sort out the secretary thing later.
<amachu> elky: sure
<amachu> if there isn't any thing else, we shall quit
<TheMuso> nothing from me
<amachu> ok.. thank you every one for participating..
<elky> amachu, you're nominated now :P
<amachu> bye bye..
<amachu> elky: and you nominated?
<elky> amachu, i figured that's how you could thank me :)
<persia> heh :)
 * persia cancels a mail mid-composition
<amachu> elky: thank you sooooooooooo much! ;-)
<elky> Heh
<amachu> bye all!
<BasicXP> And one more question, may I?
<elky> BasicXP, sure.
<BasicXP> Is there an amount of time when I should renew my membership?
<amachu> two years
<elky> BasicXP, you'll get a reminder from launchpad when it happens
<BasicXP> Okay, so it will be around april 2012, right?
<elky> yes
<BasicXP> Okay got it. Thank you!
<BasicXP> Will this be OK except for the testimonials: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BasicXP ?
<BasicXP> elky: Is this OK: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BasicXP ?
<persia> BasicXP: Extra points for finding a way to link to your wiki work, but yes.
<elky> BasicXP,  you could list the main applications you've translated, some links to wiki pages you translated. The problem is when people have to go find all this info. Be more verbose with your descriptions :)
<persia> You may also want to link to your work in Answers.
<BasicXP> Okay, let's see...
<BasicXP> I put all the general kinks I knew, no exact ones on wikipedia
<BasicXP> * wiki
<BasicXP> * links *
<persia> Thanks.
<BasicXP> Well I'm going now. Good bye!
<NCommander> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 07:01. The chair is NCommander.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<freeflying> persia: sorry, just back
<persia> NCommander: It's 12:00 UTC.  Didn't you mean to start at 13:00?
<elky> freeflying, that's ok, we managed
<persia> freeflying: Too late now :)
 * asac waves
<freeflying> elky: persia thx :)
<NCommander> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2010/20100427
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2010/20100427
<NCommander> who's here?
<asac> me!
 * persia points at https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-mobile/2010-April/002726.html extra hard to justify the answer "nobody"
<persia> Y'all are starting too early.
<asac> ogra: plars: dyfet: GrueMaster: JamieBen1ett: ping
<JamieBen1ett> o/
<dyfet> pong
<asac> great ;)
<persia> So hang out quietly for an hour, and there will be a meeting.
<JamieBen1ett> heh
<asac> persia: ?
<asac> ok
<NCommander> wait, I'm an hour off?
<asac> sorry for the mix up ;)
<persia> asac: It's 12:00 UTC.  https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-mobile/2010-April/002726.html says 13:00 UTC.
<asac> NCommander: yeah. we both are
<asac> NCommander: so #endmeeting and lets meet again ;)
 * NCommander blinks
<NCommander> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 07:05.
<persia> RIght then.
<plars> hi
<plars> yeah, not time yet :)
<NCommander> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 08:00. The chair is NCommander.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<NCommander> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2010/20100427
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2010/20100427
 * GrueMaster snorts
 * JamieBennett is here
 * NCommander beats people alive
<dyfet> is alive
<NCommander> [topic] dyfet to check update-manager sanity checks for ARM upgrades.
<MootBot> New Topic:  dyfet to check update-manager sanity checks for ARM upgrades.
<NCommander> er
<NCommander> [topic] Action Item Reviews
<MootBot> New Topic:  Action Item Reviews
<NCommander> [topic] dyfet to check update-manager sanity checks for ARM upgrades.
<MootBot> New Topic:  dyfet to check update-manager sanity checks for ARM upgrades.
<ogra> roll call first ?
<plars> here
<NCommander> ok, whos' here?
<ogra> would be nice to ping everyone :)
<asac> now i am here ;)
<dyfet> Well, I was able to do a full upgrade from karmic to lucid on arm, no surprises happened
<NCommander> everyone: ping
 * NCommander runs
<ogra> asac, again eh ? :)
<asac> heh
<asac> yeah
<ogra> *giggle*
 * cooloney waves to everyone
<persia> dyfet: Using update-manager?
<asac> dyfet: that wasnt the idea i think
<NCommander> GrueMaster: JamieBennett, ericm|ubuntu ping?
<dyfet> yes
<ericm|ubuntu> yep
 * GrueMaster already snorted
<asac> dyfet: the idea was afaik to see if the checks for armv5/v6 are in place
<JamieBennett> NCommander: I've already said I'm here ^ ;)
<dyfet> that I did not see...
<persia> asac: Oh, so one would fail-to-upgrade if it wasn't ARMv7a?
<ogra> dyfet, you should *not* be able to do an upgrade in case you have non v7 HW
<asac> persia: yes. thats the idea. refuse to upgrade rather than fail imo
<persia> dyfet: Do you have non v7 hardware on which you can test this?
<dyfet> no
<asac> persia: code sanity check was the idea
<ogra> indeed your upgrade succeeds if you do it on v7 HW
<dyfet> but I can test in an old qemu...
<asac> dyfet: ^^
<ogra> the point was to do it on something karmic ran on but lucid wont run on
<asac> at least as a start ... real live confirm: even better
<ogra> i.e. the older doves
<asac> yes, thats right. but first step was to idenficy if those checks exist in code and if they are theoretically right :)
<ogra> and i'm very sure we dont have the check in place the question was what do we need to change in u-m
<ogra> so instead of an upgrade you should justz have looked at the code
<asac> so i guess we can still SRU this ...even if its a bit late ;)
<dyfet> ogra: ah ;)
<ogra> asac, no idea, ask mvo
<asac> NCommander: carry forward
<ogra> i'm sure he'll love us
<ogra> :)
<NCommander> [topic] GrueMaster to determine what bugs that are good candidates to be fixed for lucid release
<MootBot> New Topic:  GrueMaster to determine what bugs that are good candidates to be fixed for lucid release
<ogra> GrueMaster, thanks for the list !
<GrueMaster> Email sent.  Some bugs fixed.
<asac> NCommander: give dyfet the action to do verify that code has checks and that they are proper
<ogra> the heavy ones aere fixed
<asac> etc
<mvo> ogra, asac: sru is no problem, but you will need to help with the verification, I don't have anything like a arm
<asac> mvo: right.
<NCommander> [actopnm] dyfet to verify ARMv7 upgrade checks
<NCommander> wow
<NCommander> [action] dyfet to verify ARMv7 upgrade checks
<MootBot> ACTION received:  dyfet to verify ARMv7 upgrade checks
<asac> thx
 * NCommander is really running blahhhhhhhhhhh
<asac> ok more actions ? ;)
<NCommander> [topic] NCommander, GrueMaster, plars, ogra to test firefox on new images
<MootBot> New Topic:  NCommander, GrueMaster, plars, ogra to test firefox on new images
<GrueMaster> tested ok.
<plars> do we have the new one?
<JamieBennett> scroll bar issues all resolved now?
<GrueMaster> Well, asac's ppa release.
<plars> GrueMaster: it fixed the scroll bar issue?
<GrueMaster> yes
<asac> it did ... at least from me ;)
<plars> great
<asac> for me
<asac> please verify anyway on real image
<asac> if its still in there we need to go back to zero ;)
<GrueMaster> Did it get pushed into main?
<asac> [ACTION] NCommander, plars, ogra to test firefox on new images
<asac> GrueMaster: yes.
<asac> GrueMaster: should be all in normal archive
 * ogra grumbles
<GrueMaster> Then it will get tested as part of the release testing.
<asac> heh
<asac> ok
<asac> arent you doing release testing already?
<ogra> oh, i can test that right now ... one sec
<asac> thought we shoud start testing before we cant fix anything anymore ;)
<GrueMaster> I just woke up.
<asac> heh
<NCommander> [topic] NCommander to give debdiff to {ogra|asac} for fixing libgphoto FTBFS
<MootBot> New Topic:  NCommander to give debdiff to {ogra|asac} for fixing libgphoto FTBFS
 * persia suspects we already can't fix anything anymore, based on traffic in -testing
<NCommander> [ACTION] NCommander, plars, ogra to test firefox on new image
<NCommander> done
<MootBot> ACTION received:  NCommander, plars, ogra to test firefox on new image
<asac> NCommander: that action was done iirc?
<asac> gphoto?
<NCommander> asac: gphoto should be out of FTBFS and fixed
<ogra> uploaded and fixed
<NCommander> [topic] NCommander to work with plars, GrueMaster and ericm on dove suspend/resume
<asac> yep
<MootBot> New Topic:  NCommander to work with plars, GrueMaster and ericm on dove suspend/resume
<NCommander> Dove suspend/resume works on X0 as far as I know
<plars> seems to be fixed in the latest release... I had one hiccup with it, but putting my uboot to current levels seemed to clear it up
<ogra> asac, i see no scrollbars on yahoo.de
<GrueMaster> Tested suspend/resume on dove both manually and with a script that repeats.  Both worked ok.  Only issue (known) is suspending with an SD card inserted fails.
<ogra> seems fine
<NCommander> [topic] asac/ogra to fix -omap driver to check for /dev/fb0 too if /dev/fb isnt avail
<MootBot> New Topic:  asac/ogra to fix -omap driver to check for /dev/fb0 too if /dev/fb isnt avail
<GrueMaster> The SD card issue is not arch specific.
<ogra> NCommander, fixed
<NCommander> [topic] persia and NCommander to remove evolution from ubuntu-netbook images
<MootBot> New Topic:  persia and NCommander to remove evolution from ubuntu-netbook images
<ericm|ubuntu> GrueMaster, and also we don't have any appropriate fix in upstream so far
<GrueMaster> ericm|ubuntu: correct.
<asac> failed
<persia> I figured out how to do that, but the release team pointed out that if this had been a release-critical bug, it would have been fixed long ago, and didn't accept the change.
<JamieBennett> :(
<ogra> yeah, was to late
<ogra> and SRU doesnt work here
<GrueMaster> Part of the problem is we didn't have the webmail client until RC.
<persia> ogra: And thanks to you for helping the defence before the release team.
<asac> GrueMaster: right.
<ogra> heh, didnt help much though
<asac> problem was that stevenk did this reseeding etc. as a side job
<asac> so it slipped through
<ogra> yeah, lets blame him !
<asac> of course
<GrueMaster> works for me.  :P
<ogra> :)
<asac> i am surely not to blame :-P
 * persia really thinks folks should just do their own seed changes rather than poking other folks to do them.
<asac> persia: he had the meta seed responsibility this cycle
<NCommander> persia: considering that its a pain to change the seeds then get something to merge them, sometimes its a LOT easier to get someone else to do it
<ogra> persia, pfft, seeeds we can fix them after RC
<asac> besides from that he didnt have any stuff ;) ...
<persia> Yes, my point is that assigning someone responsibility like that is an invitation to process failure.
<persia> NCommander: pain is relative.
<asac> i dont buy this ... i think it was just an oversight
<ogra> well, its over now ... lets stop whining
<asac> he was clearly aware that it was a replacement
<asac> yep
<GrueMaster> persia: He was the designated seedling for mobile since I started.
<asac> so all fine ... lets start moving
<asac> also changing seeds requires meta upload etc.
<asac> he was the best to do that
<asac> as he did all the meta/seed changes etc ;)
<asac> anyway. i take the blame ... just so its official
<NCommander> [topic] asac and JamieBennett to take email client category discussion offline and report back
<MootBot> New Topic:  asac and JamieBennett to take email client category discussion offline and report back
<asac> NCommander: scratch that
<asac> no need to discuss further ;)
<JamieBennett> nothing happened here but I think its personal preference
<NCommander> [topic] Current Items
<MootBot> New Topic:  Current Items
<NCommander> [link] http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/canonical-mobile.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/canonical-mobile.html
<ogra> geez !
<ogra> we'Re deep red
<ogra> (does anyone care at that point of release though)
<persia> Yes.
 * ogra suspects we'll flush it anyway this week
<persia> The todo stuff is mostly documentation, and needs doing badly
<NCommander> ogra: we should always care
<plars> our line did much better than last cycle
<ogra> definately
<ogra> cheers to asac for great leadership !
<GrueMaster> We're good at doing documentation badly.  :P
<persia> GrueMaster: :p
<asac> good
<asac> ogra: there are a few itesm open
<asac> (thanks ogra)
<ogra> :)
<asac> we definitly got a lot done
<asac> could have been more green ;)
<ogra> foundations-lucid-dropping-sun-java6 ... why is that on *our* list at all ?
<asac> but well. some specs were just off so its ok
<asac> ogra: persia owns it ;)? (thats out of my head)
<ogra> heh
<ogra> so its all persias fault that we'Re red !
<NCommander> [topic] Kernel Status (cooloney, ericm)
<JamieBennett> asac has a work item on that
<MootBot> New Topic:  Kernel Status (cooloney, ericm)
<JamieBennett> ogra: [asac] make plugin-finder aware of sun-java-plugin: TODO
<asac> JamieBennett: i have? /me checks
<ogra> JamieBennett, aha
<asac> JamieBennett: ah yeah. thats on my list for this week
<asac> e.g. plugin finder DB run ;)
<cooloney> status of fsl-imx51 kernel:
<cooloney> For the regulator issue bug ##567157, i cherry picked 4 patches from Freescale public git tree and added one more fixing patch.
<persia> asac: You have the plugin task: did you sort that?
<cooloney> The testing kernel works fine, patches were sent out for furthur review now.
<asac> persia: read above (e.g. plugin finder DB run ;))
<cooloney> For FEC driver ifdown issue bug #559065, i reworked on the patch which is v5 now. need more testing, please help me since my babbage board broke.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 559065 in linux-fsl-imx51 "ifconfig eth0 down will cause system hang after fec.c driver update" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/559065
<cooloney> still don't have chance to work on suspend/resume regression and usb issue,
<GrueMaster> cooloney: Please update the bug when you make a new test release.  It's the easiest way for us to communicate, since we are on different timezones.
<cooloney> cause my board dead
<cooloney> GrueMaster: yeah, i updated already, i think.
<NCommander> [topic] QA Status (GrueMaster, plars)
<MootBot> New Topic:  QA Status (GrueMaster, plars)
<ericm|ubuntu> for dove, no more update except that I guess suspend/resume and hibernation/resume are all OK now
<plars> we have new isos on the tracker, but they are respinning it seems
<plars> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/build/ubuntuarm/all
<ogra> omap needs SRU love for OTG and friends
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/build/ubuntuarm/all
<ogra> 1.5-2h ETA for new images
<plars> also, looks like we got some good last minute fixes in for some of the netbook-launcher-efl bugs
<ogra> yeah
<plars> so things like windows not having focus when they come up (very annoying) work now
<ogra> omap netbook looks really fine ... i just finished one install here
<plars> thanks to asac and whoever else made that happen
<ogra> respinning doesnt mean we cant test btw
<plars> ogra: right
<ogra> the respin is for a plymouth bug thats a corner cases afaik
<ogra> *case
<asac> plars: mterry did the cherry pick fix
<persia> Indeed, but we need to *also* test post-respin images.
<asac> i investigated too, but then he had a fix :)
<ogra> yeah
<plars> ogra: in fact, omap needs to be tested even though it's not on the tracker... too late to bother adding it now, and at the time, images were in too much churn to think about adding it
<ogra> plars, i'm caring, dont worry
<plars> ogra: as will I
<persia> Note though: "no arch-specific problems that turn up there are going to result in new uploads..." from a release manager, so you'd have to find something fairly critical to get *another* respin.
<asac> actually it seems that efl doesnt do any timestamping at all on windows, so enlightment desktop must be a bloody mess focus wise ;)
<ogra> indeed, if anyone has spare cycles for omap, feel free :)
<persia> asac: Works nice with focus-follows-mouse :)
<ogra> persia, bug 390677 could be one
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 390677 in hundredpapercuts "Hidden line during install wizard" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/390677
<asac> persia: yeah. now that you say it, I see why its like that :)
<persia> ogra: Dunno: that's an *old* bug.
<ogra> persia, just showed up on pittis and my installs
<persia> Hrm.  And probably more so at 1024x600, but it's *not* arch-specific, which makes it more likely to land.
<ogra> persia, omap has 1280x720 and i see it too
<ogra> i thik its a translation isse since i dont see it in english installs
<ogra> (and the font has the same size and there are no extra lines in _de)
<NCommander> anything else on this topic
<persia> My point was about arch-specific stuff.  Non-arch-specific critical stuff is obviously open for consideration (depending on tester time, etc.)
<asac> anyone take the action to talk to ubiquity falks?
<asac> folks?
 * ogra just commented on the bug
<asac> to see what is planned to make this more suitable for small screens?
<ogra> and i guess cjwatson and ev are getting bugmail for it
<persia> Indeed.
<asac> actually i thought we had such an effort in the past ... might just need a mental refresh
<ogra> i really dont think its a small screen issue
<ogra> there are not more lines in the german translated screen i dont see how it could move offscreen
<asac> hmm. not sure
<asac> do you have a screen with german?
<ogra> no, pitti has added one to the bug
<ogra> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/45702650/ubiquity-hide-encryptedhome.png
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://launchpadlibrarian.net/45702650/ubiquity-hide-encryptedhome.png
<ogra> the last line is missing there
<asac> ogra: sure that the free text fields are not just one line in english?
<asac> like "... machen."
<ogra> hmm, i dont have the linewraps in omap
<asac> maybe that breaks line in gereman?
<ogra> yeah it des in his screenshot
<ogra> it doesnt in the only-ubiquity mode omap uses though
<ogra> the window appears to be bigger
<asac> ogra: but oyu still have a cut of line there?
<persia> It is, kinda, because of a lack of decoration
<ogra> asac, yep
<ogra> there is decoration
<ogra> but no desktop around it
<ogra> i.e. no panels etc
<asac> ok
<ogra> NCommander, move
<asac> lets wait on input from the installer gurus
<asac> definitly not armel only ;)
<NCommander> [topic] ARM Application status (JamieBennett, dyfet)
<MootBot> New Topic:  ARM Application status (JamieBennett, dyfet)
<JamieBennett> Nothing much to report there
<ogra> 130 FTBFS
<ogra> in universe
<ogra> there seem to have been a mass give-back on the 18th
<ogra> but didnt clean up much apparently
<persia> Almost nothing, given the previous mass-giveback on the 14th (lamont and I failed to communicate)
<ogra> heh
<ogra> main is clean though
<persia> We cleared a few misc things later, but only a few, and a good chunk of that was all-arch FTBFS stuff.
<asac> ok so plenty of stuff for maverick to fix in universe ;)
<asac> hopefully we can tap the community better now that we have omap images
<ogra> yeah
<ogra> ++
<persia> Oh, yeah.  Some stuff isn't even Thumb2-safe yet.
<asac> in univeres? yes.
<persia> Right.
<asac> gauche is an easy fix if it wasnt such a retarted pain to change the build system
<ogra> we should convince canonical to send out 50 beagles to the community :)
<asac> they had the great idea to remove all makefile.am files
<asac> from source
<asac> not all ... but most :(
<asac> not sure what folks are thinking sometimes
<NCommander> asac: WTF ....
<NCommander> ow
<asac> i had seen that a few year ago elsewhere
<persia> haskell is really the only universe code-generator that got ported.  fpc *should* be ported, except for some confusion between those who have done the port and those who can upload the results.
<asac> really hoped it was a one timer :(
<ogra> just moan at upstream and be done ?
<ogra> let them fix it :)
<asac> the build system? or fpc?
<asac> yes. so we should be better communicating
<ogra> the build system
<asac> we could also file upstream bugs for the porting issues and point them to our website and instructiouns how to use qemu etc.
<persia> asac: fpc is done: just waits for someone to upload the known working binaries.
<asac> ok
<asac> for thumb2 in unvierse i mean
<plars> we've certainly come a long way from the 800+ftbfs that used to exist
<plars> http://people.canonical.com/~plars/dashboard.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~plars/dashboard.html
<persia> I believe haskell and fpc to be Thumb2 safe.  I'm unsure about stuff like eiffel, gdc, parrot, etc.
<plars> has a small graph that is neat
<ogra> heh, i thought it was a distortion first :)
<JamieBennett> heh
<asac> do we have a ftbfs graph somewhere?
<NCommander> [topic] ARM Porting/FTBFS status (NCommander, dyfet)
<MootBot> New Topic:  ARM Porting/FTBFS status (NCommander, dyfet)
<persia> plars: How do you calculate uninstallable packages?  I can find *heaps* of them.
<asac> maybe the ubuntuwire folks genearte something like that?
<persia> plars: Seems to be 373 in armel for me today.
<plars> persia: could be it's looking in the wrong place
<ogra> asac, http://people.canonical.com/~plars/dashboard.html has it behind "build failures"
<plars> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/testing-ports/lucid_probs.html lists nothing for armel
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/testing-ports/lucid_probs.html lists nothing for armel
<persia> plars: That only checks main
<asac> ogra: thats not a whole cycle graph i would love ;)
<ogra> asac, indeed
<asac> of course guess its not available ... so we dont have it ;)
<ogra> right, we dont
<asac> just wondered if ubuntuwire gnerates something like that already
<persia> Nope.
<asac> kk
<persia> Could though, if someone has code ...
<plars> persia: if you have a better location to pull that information from, I can replace it
<asac> too late for get the lucid picture ;)
<persia> Yep.
<ogra> we could draw one :)
<asac> yeah. so overall we are in pretty good shape imo
<asac> well done everyone
<ogra> NCommander, move ?
<persia> plars: You'd have to run the generator against the whole archive.  I tend to count with `apt-cache unmet -i | grep ^Package | wc -l`
<NCommander> [topic] ARM Porting/FTBFS status (NCommander, dyfet)
<MootBot> New Topic:  ARM Porting/FTBFS status (NCommander, dyfet)
<asac> NCommander: you repeat youreself ;)
 * NCommander is lagging increadibly badly
<ogra> *twiddle* *twiddle*
<asac> NCommander: move forward ;)
 * NCommander beats asac
<asac> hehe
<ogra> *twiddle* *twiddle*
<NCommander> [topic] Any Other Business
<MootBot> New Topic:  Any Other Business
<ogra> you skipped one :P
 * ogra cleans the coffee from his kdb
<ogra> *kbd
<persia> So, the images are being respun, and we should have fresh ones soon.  They are expected to work for all three flavours for imx51 and dove, but there's other issues with USB and omap.
<ogra> image staus is fine overall
<ogra> persia, ??
<ogra> whats the issue ?
<ogra> USB works fine here
<NCommander> asac told me to move forward
<ogra> NCommander, you skipped image status
<NCommander> [topic] ARM Image Status (ogra, persia)
<MootBot> New Topic:  ARM Image Status (ogra, persia)
<ogra> you should move one step at a time ... else you'll stumble
<persia> ogra: Ah.  I thought you said there was a USB-related SRU for omap.  Could be a data collection mistake on my part.
<ogra> persia, we dont have OTG drivers
<persia> Ah, that's it.
<ogra> because nobody has the HW to actually test OTG
<GrueMaster> Nobody?
<persia> What?  What HW does one need?
<ogra> so amit pulled them out before release
<GrueMaster> No one asked me.
<ogra> persia, something you need to solder one pin on the ground for
<persia> Oh, HW issues.
<ogra> GrueMaster, you claimed you wouldnt test omap because its your own board and not from the company
<ogra> so i didnt hesitate to ask
<persia> s/n't//
<GrueMaster> ogra: I NEVER said any such thing.
<NCommander> ogra: no, he said it was his board to keep, not that he was against testing
<asac> ok i have to run to a call ... my comments on AOB: i wanted to say kudos to all for this great cycle ... was fun for me and hope for others too. And I think we did a great job in various areas (also not technical areas)
<ogra> persia, its a special OTG cable
<GrueMaster> ogra: I have OTG cables.
<persia> Oh, I have heaps of those.  Anyone want several at UDS?
<asac> if you have comments on my part this cycle feel free to shoot me an email. i am happy to get constructive critique after all
<asac> ;)
<ogra> persia, yes, one for me please
 * NCommander will take one
<persia> ogra: Sure.
<NCommander> [topic] AOB
<asac> also please look at launchpad.net/ubuntu-arm and subscribe to sessions you are interested in
<MootBot> New Topic:  AOB
<ogra> anyway, we dont have drivers now
 * ogra has an AOB topic
 * persia will bring 5 and y'all can fight over them then
<asac> might be that you end up with owning a spec as we lack assignees somewhat
<ogra> someone has created  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM/LucidReleaseNotes
<ogra> what do we do with it ?
<NCommander> persia: cable deathfight?
<asac> ogra: lets take an action to flesh out final release notes
<asac> me and you and plars maybe
<NCommander> [action] asac and ogra to flesh out release nots
<MootBot> ACTION received:  asac and ogra to flesh out release nots
<persia> ogra: Add arch-specific notes, and reference the main release notes.  Stuff that comes to mind is: weboffice/webmail, efl, funny installer issues, etc.
<ogra> asac, oki
<plars> yeah, certainly some stuff around omap install that needs to go on there
<persia> Oh, and someone should mention *not* to use Kubuntu Netbook with < 512MB RAM or > 1G RAM and expect it not to have horrid performance on first boot.
 * asac out
<GrueMaster> Also of note that fspot crashes.
<asac> (mono in general)
<NCommander> persia: > 1 GiB?
<persia> NCommander: starts nepomuk with > 1GB
<NCommander> persia: ow
<NCommander> ow
<NCommander> oWwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww
<persia> Which pounds I/O, which kills slower processes with USB storage.
<persia> s/processes/processors/
<NCommander> aanything else?
<NCommander> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 09:04.
<NCommander> That's all folks
 * abogani hope to have an Beagle (omap) board under his finger sooner or later...
<ogra> abogani, cool !
 * persia looks forward to linux-ti-omap-rt
<ogra> heh
<abogani> ogra: Indeed I never worked with "big" Cortex-A8 but only with little Cortex-M3 :-(
<ogra> well, its all ARM after all :)
<ogra> and the beagle has a supported installation now
<stgraber> ogra: btw, I should have two beagle boards on my desk by the time I get back to Canada ;)
<ogra> neat
<ogra> stgraber, time to get LTSP rolling on the beagle :)
<abogani> ogra: That sounds really interesting but...
<stgraber> ogra: hehe :)
<abogani> ogra: AFAIK Beagle don't have a NIC...
<ogra> abogani, yet :)
<abogani> ogra: Or I have missed something? ;-)
<ogra> no, you are right
<persia> Has USB, and there exist USB NICs.
<ogra> but you can get LTSP kernel and initrd into the NAND with an easy script
<persia> Anyway, offtopic.  Y'all should go to #ubuntu-arm
<abogani> Sorry.
 * persia peers about.
<persia> cody-somerville: You ready?
<cody-somerville> Aye
<soren> o/
 * ara waves
 * stgraber waves
 * JamieBen1ett waves too
 * Sylvestre idem
 * lfaraone semi-waves. 
 * rodrigo_ waves too
<stgraber> seems like we have a lot on the agenda today
 * smoser says hello
 * persia encourages the chair to start the meeting in the hopes we can finish in an hour
<cody-somerville> Oh
<cody-somerville> Right, I forgot I agreed to that.
<cody-somerville> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 10:04. The chair is cody-somerville.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<cody-somerville> [TOPIC] Review of previous action items
<MootBot> New Topic:  Review of previous action items
<cody-somerville> persia, Have you contacted Angel?
<cody-somerville> persia, Did you make documentation on application notice clearer?
<persia> I've sent some IRC messages without response, and still have no response from my email.  I'd like to drop this as an action, although I'll hope to catch him another time.
<cody-somerville> persia, ACK
<persia> I tried: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperMembershipBoard/ApplicationProcess
<persia> This mostly involved minor rewording, and adding a separate bullet point to indicate the two things that needed doing.
<cody-somerville> [AGREED] Dropping action for Persia to contact Angel, he will hope to catch him another time time though.
<MootBot> AGREED received:  Dropping action for Persia to contact Angel, he will hope to catch him another time time though.
<cody-somerville> persia, Do you have intentions to work on it further or shall we close out this action item as well?
<persia> I'll work on it further if people think it's still unclear.  Without feedback, I'll leave it alone.
<cody-somerville> [AGREED] Persia will work on DMB Application Process page further if people think it's still unclear. Without feedback, he'll leave it alone.
<MootBot> AGREED received:  Persia will work on DMB Application Process page further if people think it's still unclear. Without feedback, he'll leave it alone.
<cody-somerville> Geser isn't here but since Sylvestre is on the agenda it appears he completed his action item.
<cody-somerville> [TOPIC] Administrative Matters
<MootBot> New Topic:  Administrative Matters
<cody-somerville> 1. Accept responsibility for UbuntuDevelopers/TeamDelegation
<cody-somerville> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopers/TeamDelegation
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopers/TeamDelegation
<persia> So, the TB hasn't published minutes yet, but from http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2010/04/20/%23ubuntu-meeting.html#t15:26 I believe they have ageed to delegate to us.
<persia> Anyone opposed to that, or shall I update https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopers/TeamDelegation ?
<stgraber> I'm fine with that
<cody-somerville> No objections here
<persia> soren: ?
<persia> cjwatson: ?
<persia> nixternal: ?
<soren> No, please go ahead.
 * persia edits
<cjwatson> fine
 * geser waves
<cjwatson> (sorry, I'm only about half here)
<cody-somerville> [ACTION] Persia to update UbuntuDevelopers/TeamDelegation to reflect DMB's responsibilities in process
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Persia to update UbuntuDevelopers/TeamDelegation to reflect DMB's responsibilities in process
<persia> Done.
<cody-somerville> 2. Finalise application for Leann Ogasawara
<persia> So, we've two choices here: 1) create the kernel-uploaders team, and add ogasawara to it, or grant PPU like we said we would a month ago.
<persia> cjwatson: Unfortunately, I believe both the choice and implementation are up to you, due to the LP bug
<cody-somerville> Wasn't it agreed via ML we should create a kernel-uploaders team?
<persia> I requested such a team, but as long as we're stuck with the current implementation, I figure it makes sense to simply workflow for the person who is implementing it.
<stgraber> persia: and having that team managed by the DMB correct ? (so simply using it as a way to simplify assigin the same PPU to a group of people)
<persia> stgraber: That was indeed my request.
<cjwatson> I thought I'd adjusted ogasawara's permissions already.
<geser> just of interest: how many person have PPU upload permissions for the kernel?
<cjwatson> the current workflow doesn't particularly cause me any problems, so if that's the only concern then I suggest status quo
<cjwatson> geser: three or four
<persia> cjwatson: She doesn't appear to be in ~ubuntu-dev which is likely the source of my confusion.
<cjwatson> oh, I suppose I should fix that
<cjwatson> she should have voting rights
<persia> geser: The set of PPU folk *should* match https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-dev/+members
<cjwatson> so I guess a new team would reduce human error here
<cjwatson> I'll create the team.  action me
<cjwatson> anyway, we did already grant PPU in the other ways that count.
<cody-somerville> [ACTION cjwatson to create kernel-uploaders team owned by the DMB that will provide upload permissions to kernel packages.
<soren> persia: He asked specifically for the kernel uploaders.
<cody-somerville> [ACTION] cjwatson to create kernel-uploaders team owned by the DMB that will provide upload permissions to kernel packages.
<MootBot> ACTION received:  cjwatson to create kernel-uploaders team owned by the DMB that will provide upload permissions to kernel packages.
<cody-somerville> 3. Schedule of next meeting (held at UDS?)
<persia> Oh, kenel is apw, smb, ogasawara
<soren> rtg is core-dev?
<persia> Do we want to hold a meeting on the 11th?
<persia> soren: As far as I can tell, yes.
<cody-somerville> Sure.
<soren> persia: Apparantly so.
<soren> persia: I just thought he was in the same boat.
<cjwatson> (I'll call the team ubuntu-kernel-uploaders, not kernel-uploaders, I think.  I'll check with the kernel team since many of them are in the office here)
<persia> cjwatson: That seems sensible.
 * soren seconds that
<soren> Oh, s/seconds/thirds/
 * soren was slow
<persia> soren: You might ask if he wants/needs core-dev: perhaps membership in this team is sufficient.
<soren> I'm not particularly interested in singling him out. If we'll be doing something like that I think we should do it more wholesale.
<persia> soren: Ask all the core-dev?  Let's wait until we have teams for all the currently defined packagesets first :)
<persia> Anyway, moving on...
<soren> persia: I didn't suggest doing it now. Actually, I intended to do quite the opposite :)
<cody-somerville> soren, back to the schedule of the next meeting... do folks want to hold the next one at UDS?
<cody-somerville> oops
<cody-somerville> stupid auto complete
<geser> even if rtg wants to stay core-dev, he should be added to the ubuntu-kernel-uploaders team
<cjwatson> yes, I shall do that
 * persia is OK with having the meeting during UDS, but wanted to make sure folks were aware and confirmed.
<cjwatson> fine by me
<soren> Who will not be at UDS?
<cody-somerville> Is everyone on the board going to UDS?
<persia> +1 for rtg *also* being in ubuntu-kernel-uploaders
 * geser isn't at UDS
<soren> geser: Are you coming?
<soren> Ok.
<soren> nixternal: ?
<soren> He's not listed on Launchpad as attending.
<soren> (nixternal that is)
<persia> Any meeting would have to be on IRC regardless of attendance, due to candidates anyway.
<soren> persia: Oh, true.
 * stgraber will be there
<cody-somerville> Should we schedule a session?
<persia> Just to block the time?  Couldn't hurt.
<geser> won't the DMB meeting time collision with any session?
<cody-somerville> geser, not if we schedule it
<stgraber> I guess the main point is to make sure we don't have another session at the same time, so having some kind of DMB session there would make sense
<soren> cjwatson: Do you have scheduling powers?
<persia> and marking ourselves "participation essential"
<cjwatson> soren: yes
<cjwatson> I think so anyway.  I'm supposed to be scheduling the foundations track
<soren> Heh, ok :)
<cody-somerville> cjwatson, will accept an action to schedule it?
<cody-somerville> *will you
<soren> cjwatson: In that case, it would seem most obvious to have you..
<soren> right, what cody-somerville said.
<cjwatson> yes
<cody-somerville> [ACTION] cjwatson to schedule session at UDS for DMB meeting
<MootBot> ACTION received:  cjwatson to schedule session at UDS for DMB meeting
<cody-somerville> [TOPIC] PerPackageUploader  Applications
<MootBot> New Topic:  PerPackageUploader  Applications
<cody-somerville> 1. Alessio Igor Bogani
<abogani> Hi
<cody-somerville> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlessioIgorBogani/linux-rtPPUApplication
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlessioIgorBogani/linux-rtPPUApplication
<cody-somerville> abogani, Please introduce yourself, explain what you're requesting, and why
<abogani> Sorry for my very (bad) English and for my slowness in typing.
<geser> http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2010/04/11/%23ubuntu-motu.html#t17:31 points to a short discussion between me and abogani about this application
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2010/04/11/%23ubuntu-motu.html#t17:31 points to a short discussion between me and abogani about this application
<abogani> I'm always in trouble for difficult to find an uploader. For instance TheMuso sometimes is simply too busy, some other MOTU-ers don't have (or don't want) take care of linux realtime kernel. So although I have already a couple of SRU (in the past) I never have a change to do an upgrade to linux-rt package after the release. :-(
<abogani> SRU with kernel I meant.
<abogani> So kernel realtime quality si very low.
<abogani> *is
<abogani> Recently seems that my usual uploader don't want upload my work (on linux-rt) anymore without say me the reason. So I have also requeste to him sponsor for my application and he answer to my request with  "I would, but I haven't seen any of your recent work, so I don't feel I am in a position to comment."
<abogani> So without an uploader I'm still doing my work in my PPA (https://launchpad.net/~abogani/+archive/ppa).
<abogani> And I'm still triage bugs.
<persia> abogani: Your application differs from most we receive in that it has no endorsements.  Could you share some of your experiences in seeking endorsements?
<abogani> persia: i have requested it to -motu, -devel and -kernel. But not one seems trust to me.
<cody-somerville> abogani, It sounds like you're in a tough situation due to folks not having time or interest to review your changes to a package that most developers probably don't even feel comfortable touching themselves.
<cody-somerville> abogani, What sort of changes do you make?
<abogani> cody-somerville: Keep in line with Upstream.
<soren> geser: Would you agree that if TheMuso's words actually were "I would, but I haven't seen any of your recent work, so I don't feel I am in a position to comment." rather than (as abogani said in that IRC log) that TheMuso specifically didn't trust his packaging skills, that's a different story?
 * soren gets the impression the language barrier got in the way of that previous discussion.
<geser> soren: I didn't talk with TheMuso about it (didn't think of it)
<soren> geser: I probably woulnd't have either.
<geser> I saw that abogani's application didn't have any endorsements and wanted to try to find possible candidates
<abogani> I would want let you notice that I take care of this package for *7* Ubuntu release. What you can see into that package is made only be me. So you can touch my work with your hands. I only want don't see linux-rt package die (in more than threes years seems that I'm the only one Ubuntu developer interested in this field).
 * soren certainly remembers a long time dedication from abogani's side
<soren> abogani: I'm curious... How big is the delta between the rt kernel and the regular kernel these days?
<persia> I'll say that I worked with abogani on this package in either gutsy or hardy (I forget which) to support that.  I've not seen his work since prior to the application review, so am not in a strong position to comment on the application directly.
<geser> abogani: do you how much your PPA is used?
<abogani> soren: 100-300Kb
<lfaraone> abogani: I think he means how many people use it.
<soren> abogani: Are they converging at all?
<soren> lfaraone: No, no, I did mean in terms of patch size.
<abogani> geser: I don't have idea. No way to measure but I fix three bugs at least
<abogani> soren: Sorry I don't understand.
<geser> abogani: do users contact you about bugs/problems/suggestions/etc.?
<abogani> geser: I suggest users to try kernel into my PPA to know if these fix bugs (# 540960 , #523319  and Bug #499033 )
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 499033 in linux-rt "BUG: scheduling while atomic" [Low,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/499033
<abogani> geser: No they only request me a kernel that always works! ;-)
<cody-somerville> It looks like Luke makes the most uploads to the -rt kernel. abogani Do you work closely with TheMuso?
<soren> abogani: Is the delta size expected to be smaller in the future? Are the patches being put into the regular kernel or are the blocked by something?
<abogani> cody-somerville: Since Intrepid.
<cody-somerville> abogani, but he doesn't feel comfortable endorsing you?
<abogani> soren: Upstream (Ingo and Gleixner) hope to merge completely soon
<soren> abogani: That's great news!
<abogani> cody-somerville: I don't know. He refuse to let me know the reason.
<cody-somerville> Very well. I'm ready to vote.
<cody-somerville> soren, persia, geser, cjwatson, nixternal: ?
 * persia is fine to vote
 * stgraber too
 * geser has no questions anymore
<abogani> soren: Recently They have merges spleeping spinlocks.
<abogani> *merged
<soren> abogani: Oh, wow.
<abogani> For who those are interested a simple review of kernels in Ubuntu: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuStudio/RealTimeKernel
<abogani> made by Scott Lavander and with few fixes by me.
<cody-somerville> [VOTE] Alessio Igor Bogani's application for upload rights for linux-rt and rt-tests packages.
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Alessio Igor Bogani's application for upload rights for linux-rt and rt-tests packages..
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<cody-somerville> -1 due to missing endorsement from primary uploader of packages TheMuso.
<MootBot> -1 received from cody-somerville. 0 for, 1 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -1
<persia> +1 : I'm not particularly happy about a lack of endorsements, and would like to see closer integration with the other kernels in various ways, but I don't think anyone else is going to maintain this package based on history.
<MootBot> +1 received from persia. 1 for, 1 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 0
<stgraber> +0 due to a lack of endorsement
<MootBot> Abstention received from stgraber. 1 for, 1 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 0
<cjwatson> +0 - sounds to me like the lack of endorsements is because nobody else is properly keeping up here, but I'm uncomfortable with the lack of endorsement.  Perhaps somebody else can follow up with TheMuso and chase this
<MootBot> Abstention received from cjwatson. 1 for, 1 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 0
<geser> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from geser. 1 for, 1 against. 3 have abstained. Count is now 0
<cody-somerville> abogani, I'm happy to change my -1 to a +1 if you can get an endorsement from TheMuso.
 * geser too
 * stgraber too
<soren> +1  abogani has a long history of working in this area, he's clearly motivated to maintain it, and the lack of endorsements seems like a unfortunate combination of misunderstanding and the fact that when you only work on one package, you can be a bit stuck this way.
<MootBot> +1 received from soren. 2 for, 1 against. 3 have abstained. Count is now 1
<cody-somerville> abogani, I'm sympathetic to the fact that not many people are interested in this package and thus interested in sponsoring you.
<cody-somerville> #endvote
<cody-somerville> #ENDVOTE
 * imbrandon offers to sponsor uploads for abogani too
<cjwatson> I think the DMB should take action to chase this up with potential endorsers and find out what's going on.
<soren> I agree.
<cody-somerville> #concludevote
<cjwatson> and do it that way rather than simply pushing it through
<cody-somerville> #stopvotekthxbi
<persia> end
<cjwatson> try [ENDVOTE]
<cody-somerville> #end
<cody-somerville> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 2 for, 1 against. 3 abstained. Total: 1
<abogani> cody-somerville: I suspect that people discover that they are interested in it only whan package disappeared.
<Sylvestre> As a Scilab developer and getting some regular feedbacks about RT applications and kernel, there are not enough packager in this field
<cjwatson> will somebody volunteer to take this action?
 * persia will chat with TheMuso
<soren> I need to head to dinner soon. Can I record votes for later somehow?
<soren> By "soon" I mean "three minutes ago" :-/
<persia> soren: /query the chair if you're certain about some of the results.
 * nixternal is here now
 * stgraber has to leave soon too (as in 5-10 min)
<cody-somerville> [ACTION] Soren to follow up with TheMuso re: abogani's application
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Soren to follow up with TheMuso re: abogani's application
<cody-somerville> 2. Ara Pulido
<cody-somerville> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AraPulido/PerPackageUploadApplication
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AraPulido/PerPackageUploadApplication
<soren> Wait, what?
<stgraber> cody-somerville: wasn't that persia's action ?
<soren> 16:01  * persia will chat with TheMuso
<persia> soren: I'll pretend to be you :)
<cody-somerville> [ACTION] Persia to follow up with TheMuso re: abogani's application
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Persia to follow up with TheMuso re: abogani's application
<soren> persia: Rock :)
<cody-somerville> ara, ping
<ara> cody-somerville, hey
<ara> I was waiting for the discussions on action ownership to end
<ara> do I introduce myself?
<geser> yes please
<ara> I am Ara Pulido, part of the Ubuntu QA team
<ara> I am the main developer of Mago (http://mago.ubuntu.com) a automated desktop testing framework, who is built on top of LDTP (ldtp.freedesktop.org)
<ara> I have been working very closely with Debian maintainer of LDTP and also upstream and, lately, most of the LDTP uploads were done by me (thanks to kind sponsors).
<ara> Also, I uploaded mago for the first time to Ubuntu
<ara> As per ubuntu-qa-tools, there were a set of scripts developed by the QA team, and I thought it was worth it to package them and upload them to Ubuntu. I based my work on ubuntu-dev-tools package.
<ara> Thus, I am applying for upload rights for those three packages
<cody-somerville> You have some great endorsements.
<persia> ara: In your application you say that we've done poorly in building a strong testing community: how do you think this is best addressed?
<ara> persia, well, not poorly, we've been doing better than other communities, but there is a lot of room for improvements
<ara> we need to build culture around testing
<persia> OK.  Less well than with bugsquad then :)  Still, same question.  How?
<ara> I think a key thing is that developers need to understand how important testers are for them and their work
<ara> I would love to see a developer from the different teams rotating to attend the QA meeting on IRC, i.e.
<ara> that would build a bridge between testers and devs
<cody-somerville> ara, You only have 11 uploads. How often do you need yo upload these packages? Any more than others? Are you the primary maintainer or just a casual contributor?
<ara> cody-somerville, ldtp has a very active upstream release process
<stgraber> cody-somerville: I'm affraid I have to leave now, please record a +1 for ara. Great endorsements + I have been working with her on some QA tools (including the ISO tracker) and have been reviewing some of her code for that with it being usually perfect.
<ara> cody-somerville, you will see much more uploads  on that package
<stgraber> see you all at UDS for the next meeting
<ara> stgraber, thanks!
<ara> cody-somerville, but I would like to upload more often mago and ubuntu-qa-tools in the next cycles
<ara> cody-somerville, I could say that I am the main maintainer for those three packages
<cody-somerville> 11 uploads doesn't seem correct. according to ldtp changelog, you have quite a lot of uploads
<cody-somerville> Anyhow, I'm ready to vote.
<ara> cody-somerville, yes, when using distributed development, I often see the sponsor as the uploader in Launchpad
<ara> cody-somerville, I don't know why...
<cody-somerville> cjwatson, persia, geser: Ready to vote?
 * nixternal is has no questions
<persia> ara: How closely do you end up working with kartik?
<cody-somerville> nixternal, ah, I forgot you showed up
<nixternal> you better never ever forget again :p
<geser> cody-somerville: ready
<ara> persia, at the beginning we were working pretty close, and he put me as co-maintainer of the debian package. He has been feeling a bit left out lately, though, but I already told him that we will be working again closely
 * persia is ready
<ara> persia, see here his complaint and my reply:
<ara> http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/ldtp-dev/2010-April/000999.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/ldtp-dev/2010-April/000999.html
<cody-somerville> [VOTE] Ara Pulido for upload rights for packages ldtp, mago and ubuntu-qa-tools.
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Ara Pulido for upload rights for packages ldtp, mago and ubuntu-qa-tools..
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<nixternal> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from nixternal. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<cody-somerville> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from cody-somerville. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<geser> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from geser. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<cody-somerville> +1 from Soren and stgraber
<persia> +1 Nice history of work on the packages.
<MootBot> +1 received from persia. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<cody-somerville> cjwatson, ^
<cjwatson> oh, sorry
<cjwatson> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from cjwatson. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 5
<cody-somerville> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 5 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 5
<nixternal> congrats and welcome ara \o/
<ara> thanks!
<rodrigo_> congrats ara!
 * persia believes there's another meeting at 16:30, but may be mistaken
<cody-somerville> [ACTION] cjwatson, on behalf of DMB, to grant Ara Pulido upload rights for packages ldtp, mago and ubuntu-qa-tools.
<MootBot> ACTION received:  cjwatson, on behalf of DMB, to grant Ara Pulido upload rights for packages ldtp, mago and ubuntu-qa-tools.
<geser> persia: isn't it 17:30?
<persia> Could me.  Like I said, I might be mistaken.
<persia> s/me/be/
 * nixternal has to let the dog out...bbi5
<cody-somerville> I see the Desktop Team Meeting in 6 minutes.
<geser> persia: 16:30 has the desktop team a meeting but not here and the next meeting here is at 17:00
<persia> OK.  Let's move on then.
<cody-somerville> 3. Rodrigo Moya
<cody-somerville> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RodrigoMoya/PerPackageUploadApplication
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RodrigoMoya/PerPackageUploadApplication
<rodrigo_> I am part of the online services team at canonical, working on desktop integration of Ubuntu One
<rodrigo_> I am upstream of the packages I ask permissions for, except for Tomboy, which I don't maintain, but I've been working closely with upstream for the tomboy notes synchronization protocol used by Ubuntu One and snowy (free notes sync service)
<rodrigo_> so I'm asking for upload rights for couchdb-glib, evolution-couchdb, libubuntuone, rhythmbox-ubuntuone-music-store, tomboy, ubuntuone-client
<geser> how much packaging is done upstream (you) and how much by your sponsor for those packages?
<rodrigo_> except for libubuntuone and rhythmbox-ubuntuone-music-store, which was entirely done this cycle by kenvandine, I (and the team I work for) do all the packaging
<rodrigo_> and for libubuntuone and rhythmbox-ubuntuone-music-store, we dind't do the packaging this cycle because we were very busy
<rodrigo_> so kenvandine did help us
<rodrigo_> but I plan to do the packaging from now on myself
<nixternal> back
<cody-somerville> rodrigo_, It appears you've never had any changes sponsored for rhythmbox-ubuntuone-music-store, libubuntuone, or ubuntuone.
<persia> rodrigo_: Grepping changelogs, I don't see any uploads or credited contributions from you for several of the referenced packages.  Are you part of upstream on some of them?
<rodrigo_> cody-somerville, as I said, we didn't do any packaging for rhythmbox-ubuntuone-music-store, libubuntuone this cycle
 * lfaraone has to go. Can I be processed by email, or should I move to the next agenda?
<rodrigo_> as for ubuntuone-client, it's done by a member of my team usually
<rodrigo_> but I'm taking the maintainership for next cycle
<rodrigo_> persia, I am upstream on all of them, except for tomboy
<cody-somerville> rodrigo_, Who usually sponsors your couchdb-glib uploads?
<rodrigo_> cody-somerville, kenvandine
<geser> lfaraone: we will mail you once we now what we do with the applications which we don't manage to process today
<rodrigo_> cody-somerville, part of the reason for applying is removing lots of workload from kenvasndine
<lfaraone> geser: thanks.
<cody-somerville> rodrigo_, Tomboy?
<rodrigo_> he's been doing the packages when we didn't have time, as I said for this cycle
<rodrigo_> cody-somerville, dholbach and pitti, iirc
<cody-somerville> Okay, I'm ready to vote. (We'll be voting on each package individually).
<rodrigo_> for tomboy, I didn't have to send any patch/change in the last cycle, because all development was done upstream
<rodrigo_> and because the protocol is now stable, but we plan to add some new things to the protocol
<rodrigo_> so the package would need changes during maverick devel process
<cody-somerville> rodrigo_, Its nice that you contribute upstream but for package upload rights I'm more interested in seeing a demonstrated proficiency and understanding of Debian packaging, particular in relationship to the packages being applied for.
<rodrigo_> cody-somerville, yeah, right, was just explaining why there are no recent tomboy uploads from me
 * cody-somerville nods.
<cody-somerville> rodrigo_, Are there any packages you feel more intimately familiar with? (debian packaging wise that is)
<rodrigo_> cody-somerville, couchdb-glib and evolution-couchdb, I've done all the packaging for them, just had kenvandine sponsoring my uploads
 * cody-somerville nods.
<nixternal> those 2 packages have rodrigo_'s name all over, even from the 'initial packaging' a year ago
 * cody-somerville nods.
<rodrigo_> yes :)
<cody-somerville> cjwatson, geser, nixternal, persia: Ready to vote?
<nixternal> 3 May 2009
<cjwatson> I'm afraid my attention is being mostly stolen, but sure
 * persia has no further questions
<nixternal> none here
 * persia is also rapidly losing cognitive capacity, and will likely have issues processing soonish
<cody-somerville> [VOTE] Rodrigo Moya for upload rights for packages couchdb-glib and evolution-couchdb
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Rodrigo Moya for upload rights for packages couchdb-glib and evolution-couchdb.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<nixternal> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from nixternal. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<persia> +1: clear history of maintenance
<cjwatson> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from cjwatson. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<geser> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from geser. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<cody-somerville> +1 clear history of maintainership
<MootBot> +1 received from cody-somerville. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<cody-somerville> +1 from Soren
<geser> persia: try again without :
<cody-somerville> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 4 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 4
<persia> +1
<cody-somerville> [VOTE] Rodrigo Moya for upload rights for packages libubuntuone, rhythmbox-ubuntuone-music-store, and ubuntuone-client
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Rodrigo Moya for upload rights for packages libubuntuone, rhythmbox-ubuntuone-music-store, and ubuntuone-client.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<cody-somerville> -1 No sponsored uploads for requested packages.
<MootBot> -1 received from cody-somerville. 0 for, 1 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -1
<nixternal> +1 - I am taking Ken's testimony to heart "...and since he is upstream for the packages, he understands the issues better than I do."
<MootBot> +1 received from nixternal. 1 for, 1 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 0
<geser> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from geser. 2 for, 1 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<persia> +0 : no sponsored uploads, but lots of upstream activity, and acceptable as Ubuntu Developer otherwise
<MootBot> Abstention received from persia. 2 for, 1 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 1
<nixternal> plus he is Canonical, so if he messes up, it is more fun to watch :D
<nixternal> just kidding!!!
<rodrigo_> :)
<cjwatson> +1 - my understanding of general sabdfl guidance on these matters is that upstream developers should be welcomed provided that they have a general understanding of Ubuntu processes
<nixternal> kind of :D
<MootBot> +1 received from cjwatson. 3 for, 1 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 2
<nixternal> we need soren and stgraber right? to the mailing list to complete or are they still around?
<persia> cody-somerville: Did either give you a vote in /query?
<cody-somerville> +1 from Soren
<persia> Then it goes to mail, pending stgraber.
<cody-somerville> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 3 for, 1 against. 1 abstained. Total: 2
<cody-somerville> [VOTE] Rodrigo Moya for upload rights for packages tomboy
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Rodrigo Moya for upload rights for packages tomboy.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<cody-somerville> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from cody-somerville. 0 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 0
<persia> +1 : participatory in packaging, patches submitted upstream, otherwise Developer Material
<MootBot> +1 received from persia. 1 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 1
<geser> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from geser. 1 for, 0 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 1
<cjwatson> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from cjwatson. 2 for, 0 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 2
<cody-somerville> nixternal, ^^
<nixternal> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from nixternal. 3 for, 0 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 3
<nixternal> damn, you did back to back votes, caught me off guard
<cody-somerville> +1 from Soren too?
<cody-somerville> I think we should defer both this and last vote to have stgraber and soren vote explicitly on the separate votes via ML.
<cody-somerville> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 3 for, 0 against. 2 abstained. Total: 3
<cody-somerville> rodrigo_, Congratulations. You've been granted PPUs to couchdb-glib and evolution-couchdb
<rodrigo_> so, will I get the final results in my mail, or should I follow some mailing list?
 * rodrigo_ opens the champagne!
<nixternal> to early here for champaigne, though maco would tell you otherwise
<persia> rodrigo_: You'll get notified of the final results, but you're an Ubuntu Developer and can upload those two packages.
<rodrigo_> thanks
<rodrigo_> persia, ok, cool
<maco> nixternal: pffft is noon where you live! its past tequila time for you!
<cody-somerville> rodrigo_, PPU permissions for libubuntuone, rhythmbox-ubuntuone-music-store, ubuntuone-client, and Tomboy are pending further votes. You'll be notified via email of the results.
<geser> cody-somerville: what do we do about the remaining agenda as we are running out of time (if I read the schedule correctly)?
<nixternal> jeesh, 6 more applications to process
<cody-somerville> I'd like to propose we defer the remaining PPU permission applications, MOTU applications, and UCD application until the next meeting
<nixternal> all this in 2 weeks...starting to look good on the dev front...more people getting excited to join
 * persia thinks that's 3 hours at current rate, and won't be completed within this meeting.
<nixternal> though that imbrandon character is back yet again
<cjwatson> I believe I'm fully caught up on the implementation of current approvals
<cody-somerville> But think we should process Brandon Holtsclaw before concluding
<ara> rodrigo_, congrats!
<nixternal> i think you are too, thanks for that!
<rodrigo_> thanks ara :-)
<Sylvestre> :/
<imbrandon> :)
<Sylvestre> cody-somerville, when is going to be the next meeting ?
<neversfelde> mhh, everything else postponed to next meeting?
<persia> Sylvestre: 11th May
 * neversfelde took holiday to attend this meeting :(
<Sylvestre> I might not be available :S
<cody-somerville> (If this is a problem for any applicants, please speak - note, you're more likely to get approved when we're not fatigued from voting:P)
<smoser> 2 weeks will be UDS.
<Sylvestre> If it is possible, I would like to do it now but I understand if you are borred
<cjwatson> I'm OK with staying a bit longer, but not three hours
<cjwatson> chair's decision IMO
<imbrandon> i think mine should be easy either way, now or via email, i just dident hit the "renew" button in time ;)
<smoser> (thats simplay informational)
<geser> isn't the kernel team meeting soon here?
<persia> Should be, yeah.
 * cody-somerville nods.
<cody-somerville> [AGREED] Deferring remaining applications with exception of imbrandon's
<MootBot> AGREED received:  Deferring remaining applications with exception of imbrandon's
<cody-somerville> [TOPIC] Ubuntu Core Developer Applications
<MootBot> New Topic:  Ubuntu Core Developer Applications
<cjwatson> the kernel team cancelled their IRC meeting this week
<persia> I don't trust myself to provide informed consideration anymore.  I'll follow-up in email if anything is needed.
<cody-somerville> 1. Renewal for Brandon Holtsclaw
<nixternal> -40000000000000000
<cjwatson> neversfelde: if it's serious hardship to make it to meetings, we can if necessary handle it by mail, though in general we prefer not to
<imbrandon> Hi I'm brandon, i'm pretty sure most/all of you know me, I did not hit the Launchpad core-dev renewal button in time and my membership had expired, i'd like to renew ;)
<nixternal> thing is, i think deferring it to the next meeting is ok, as there is absolutely nothing to do right now with your upload rights :)
<neversfelde> cjwatson: I would be sad, if would have wasted a day of holiday for nothing :)
<cjwatson> cody-somerville: (I think we ought to process neversfelde's application if possible, since he's gone to special lengths)
<cjwatson> I'm fine with imbrandon's renewal, pro forma
<nixternal> he is special alright
<nixternal> yeah, same with imbrandon
<cody-somerville> [VOTE]  Renewal of core-dev status for Brandon Holtsclaw
<MootBot> Please vote on:   Renewal of core-dev status for Brandon Holtsclaw.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<cody-somerville> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from cody-somerville. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<geser> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from geser. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<nixternal> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from nixternal. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<cjwatson> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from cjwatson. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<cody-somerville> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 4 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 4
<nixternal> james bond fell asleep at the keyboard
<cody-somerville> [AGREED] Brandon Holtsclaw to be re-granted core developer status
<MootBot> AGREED received:  Brandon Holtsclaw to be re-granted core developer status
<imbrandon> ty for takin the time to make sure i got in today :)
<imbrandon> GL neversfelde
<nixternal> we should have made you wait
<imbrandon> :)
<nixternal> cutting in line! you can't do that in chicago, here you would get a whoopin'!
<neversfelde> imbrandon: thanks
<imbrandon> hey hey technicly i was first in line on the agenda from last week ;) shhhh
<cody-somerville> I unfortunately can not spare any more of my work day.
<cody-somerville> neversfelde, Ubuntu is frozen. You can't upload anyhow. Are you sure you can't wait?
<neversfelde> cody-somerville: I am not sure I can make it to the next meetings, as I have to work all summer
<neversfelde> but if it is preferred, I can come back the next meeting I can convince someone to let me go home :)
<cody-somerville> neversfelde, Will you have time to upload this summer? ;)
<neversfelde> cody-somerville: well, there are weekends :)
<cjwatson> meetings are at fixed times; last I checked, uploads weren't ;-)
<neversfelde> hehe
 * cody-somerville was being facetious.
<cjwatson> might be an interesting feature in LP though ...
<imbrandon> heh
<neversfelde> so probably I introduce myself and I am open to any questions here and per mail?
<cody-somerville> holy crap
<cody-somerville> you have a lot of uploads
<cody-somerville> Are they mostly rebuilds or what?
<nixternal> lol
<neversfelde> cody-somerville: hehe, I hope not
<cody-somerville> Oops, misread the number
<cody-somerville> I thought it said 680
<cody-somerville> *690
<nixternal> neversfelde: why motu? why not just go the kubuntu-dev route?
<cjwatson> can you comment on why you're applying for MOTU rather than for Kubuntu?
<cjwatson> heh, snap
<nixternal> i knew he is a kubuntu mastah
<geser> LP oopsed for me trying to loads neversfelde +related-software page :(
<neversfelde> nixternal, cjwatson: as I understand the process it is MOTU first and Kubuntu dev is more than that, but I might be wrong
<neversfelde> also this is my goal for a long time now
<nixternal> minitube, the only package without a "K" in it, but it is a KDE app :)
<cjwatson> though I notice that the endorsements are specifically for MOTU
<nixternal> neversfelde: yeah, you are wrong :)
<cjwatson> kubuntu-dev certainly involves more core packages than MOTU does
<cjwatson> so it depends on your interests
<cody-somerville> neversfelde, I'm happy to process your application via e-mail if you can't make further e-mails.
<cody-somerville> [TOPIC] Select a chair for the next meeting
<MootBot> New Topic:  Select a chair for the next meeting
<nixternal> neversfelde: yeah, go Kubuntu Dev dude
<neversfelde> so I would love to fix packages with no K in it, too. If this did not happen yet, I am sure it will in future
<cody-somerville> err... further meetings
<cjwatson> one reason to go MOTU rather than kubuntu-dev is if you have experience and interest in packages not in the Kubuntu seeded set
<cody-somerville> soren, who wants to be chair for the next meeting?
<cody-somerville> ugh
<cody-somerville> stupid auto-complete
<cjwatson> most of your uploads seem to be in kubuntu-dev's scope, though
<neversfelde> also I would like to help with reviewing packages on REVU, I think there is help needed
<neversfelde> ok, I could do this without beeing a MOTU, but I would feel better
<cjwatson> (and kubuntu-dev certainly doesn't preclude a motu application; doing both is entirely legit if you have relevant experience for both)
<geser> neversfelde: if you are kubuntu-dev you can review kubuntu packages on REVU :)
<cody-somerville> neversfelde, I recommend you pursuing kubuntu-dev. For MOTU applicants, we tend to look to see if they have experience as a generalist.
<neversfelde> ok
<cody-somerville> nixternal, Want to chair next week?
<nixternal> i was chair last week
<cody-somerville> oh right
<cody-somerville> geser, ?
<nixternal> but...if i have to do it again i am down
<nixternal> i have no problem chairing...it is easy
<nixternal> just gotta make sure i wake up for it :)
<nixternal> remember, I am unemployed right now, so i don't have to be up early :D
<geser> nixternal: we won't start without you :)
<nixternal> rofl
<nixternal> ok, i will chair the next meeting then
<cody-somerville> Has geser ever chaired yet?
<lfaraone> It will probably be difficult for me to make the next meeting, as I had to request special arrangements with my teachers to even make this one. I'll submit for email processing, I guess.
<geser> yes, I've chaired already once (might be around 3 meetings ago)
<maco> lfaraone: psst link to your wiki page? i forgot to write on it
<cjwatson> linked off DeveloperMembershipBoard/Agenda
<lfaraone> maco: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LukeFaraone/MOTUApp , thanks.
<cody-somerville> [ACTION] Geser or Nixternal to be next chair - depends who hits #startmeeting first :P
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Geser or Nixternal to be next chair - depends who hits #startmeeting first :P
<cody-somerville> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 12:18.
<imbrandon> longests -meeting in ubuntu history , lol j/k
<imbrandon> thanks all
<geser> imbrandon: old CC meetings were also around this long (if not even longer)
<imbrandon> geser: oh yea i rember, was more of a joke ;P
<WebGuest4> !logs
<ubottu> Official channel logs can be found at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ - For LoCo channels, http://logs.ubuntu-eu.org/freenode/
<maco> geser: thank goodness for membership boards?
#ubuntu-meeting 2010-04-28
<zul> gday
<nealmcb> sommer, ttx: howdy!
<sommer> yo :-)
<ttx> dude
<hggdh> ~o~
 * nealmcb english has so many different greetings :)
<smoser> \0
<Daviey> o/
<mathiaz> ~~O~~
<jjohansen> \o
<kirkland> o/
<jiboumans> morning folks
<jiboumans> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 09:01. The chair is jiboumans.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<jiboumans> [TOPIC] Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<MootBot> New Topic:  Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<jiboumans> mathiaz to fix the "server fixed bugs" broken script
<mathiaz> jiboumans: not done
<jiboumans> mathiaz: when can we expect it to be tackled?
<mathiaz> jiboumans: this week - now that release is out of the door
<jiboumans> mathiaz: ack
<jiboumans> ttx to confirm with jib lucid SRU resource allocation
<ttx> jiboumans: I mentioned it to you
<mathiaz> jiboumans: I should have some more time to look around these lower important todos
<ttx> jiboumans: not sure that confirms it yet
<jiboumans> ttx: i believe we have a UDS session on this, no?
<ttx> jiboumans: yes
<jiboumans> mathiaz: it happens, improvement point for next time :)
<ttx> "Lucid SRU process review"
<jiboumans> ttx: excellent, consider it done then
<jiboumans> now, this meeting will focus on the releaes and UDS instead of the usual topics, so bear with us please
<jiboumans> [TOPIC] Release status (ttx)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Release status (ttx)
<jiboumans> how's the war room looking ttx?
<ttx> yay
<ttx> DefCon 3 so far
<ttx> No respin expected
<mathiaz> ttx: what does that mean?
<mathiaz> ttx: level 3?
<ttx> nobody running in circles
<nealmcb> :)
<jiboumans> mathiaz: you're woefully underprepared for an invasion of your borders sir
<zul> drinking yet?
<ttx> DefCon 2 would be "pilots scramble to their aircrafs
<mathiaz> jiboumans: totally - where I live there isn'
<ttx> and DefCon 1 would be permission to engage
<mathiaz> jiboumans: totally - where I live there isn't any point in getting prepare for an invasion
<zul> release lucid....drunk fix later..
<ttx> the absinthe bottle is still full
 * hggdh meanwhile drinks a marvelous Brazilan coffee
<jiboumans> ttx: any known issues come up that will be release noted or SRU'd early?
 * zul hands mathiaz a book about the war of 1812
<Daviey> I understand it's tradition for the server boss to buy drinks at UDS for the entire ~ubuntu-server team.. so it's not all bad, eh jiboumans ?
<ttx> yes
<jiboumans> Daviey: i must have not gotten that memo
<ttx> I updated https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting
<mathiaz> jiboumans: you'll get - don't worry
<ttx> ah
<ttx> I mean https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/ReleaseStatus
<jiboumans> ttx++ excellent
<ttx> We have 4 things ion the release note list
<ttx> 4 early targets for SRU
<ttx> If you see anything missing, please shout
<ttx> (now)
<hggdh> ttx, may I propose bug 567592 also?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 567592 in plymouth "rm: cannot remove `/var/lib/urandom/random-seed': Read-only file system" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/567592
<jiboumans> for the logs:
<jiboumans> 423252 (breaks NSS using LDAP+SSL on upgrades from Hardy)
<jiboumans> 571057 (breaks OpenLDAP configs on upgrades from Lucid dev milestones)
<jiboumans> 570805 (regression in Ubuntu Server installation times on ext4)
<jiboumans> 557429 (potential breakage in a scenario with degraded RAID arrays being assembled)
<zul> ttx: i know at least one other php one
<ttx> hggdh: for release noting ?
<mathiaz> bug 423252 <- that won't be SRUable in the short time
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 423252 in sudo "NSS using LDAP+SSL breaks setuid applications like su and sudo" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/423252
<hggdh> ttx: for SRU-ing
<mathiaz> as there isn't a confirmed fix
<hggdh> early
<jiboumans> hang on, those were the release note bugs
<ttx> mathiaz: right that's why it's on the "under investigation" list
<jiboumans> these are the SRUable bugs:
<jiboumans> eucalyptus: 567371,565101 (kirkland)
<jiboumans> tomcat6: 563642 (ttx)
<jiboumans> php5: 541439 (zul)
<jiboumans> vmbuilder: 536942,386463,493020,497258,517067,535397,536940,539727,540446,524020 (soren)
<zul> heh soren has some work to do
<ttx> yes, volcano smoke prevented him to fix those in time
<kirkland> jiboumans: i'm prepping a eucalyptus upload right now that addresses 566793, 567371, 565101
<ttx> hggdh: ok, I'll look into it
<ttx> kirkland: i'll add the missing bugreference, thanks for the pointer
<jiboumans> [ACTION] hggdh, zul to get their release note/early SRU bugs known to ttx
<MootBot> ACTION received:  hggdh, zul to get their release note/early SRU bugs known to ttx
<jiboumans> ttx: any other news from the war room?
<zul> ttx: what about the crypt lvm bug?
<ttx> zul: the repeated prompt ?
<zul> yeah shouldnt that be in the release notes as well?
<ttx> zul: I don't think so
<Daviey> Is soren going to be able to manage the *long* list of early SRU's?
<ttx> it sucks but it's hardly blocking anything
<zul> ttx: ack
<ttx> Daviey: patches welcome, as usual
<ttx> nothing else from the war room
<jiboumans> [TOPIC] UEC release status (kirkland)
<MootBot> New Topic:  UEC release status (kirkland)
<jiboumans> thanks ttx
<kirkland> jiboumans: check
<kirkland> jiboumans: no release critical issues
<ttx> just remember to mark DONE or POSTPONED the remaining work items for 10.04
<ttx> by tomorrow eod :)
<jiboumans> [ACTION] ALL to mark DONE or POSTPONED the remaining work items for 10.04 by Thu 29 April EOD
<MootBot> ACTION received:  ALL to mark DONE or POSTPONED the remaining work items for 10.04 by Thu 29 April EOD
<jiboumans> kirkland: the upload you're doing will be a zero day SRU then?
<kirkland> jiboumans: i have uploaded now
<kirkland> jiboumans: it will be in lucid-proposed as soon as the ubuntu-sru team accepts it
<kirkland> jiboumans: normally, it's supposed to bake in -proposed for ~1 week
<jiboumans> kirkland: right, but too late for any ISOs of course
<jiboumans> understood
<kirkland> jiboumans: yes, these won't be on the 10.04 iso (but will be on 10.04.1)
<jiboumans> kirkland: does it address all the open bugs we'd hope to have fixed real soon around release, or do we have any open ones left?
<kirkland> jiboumans: we could ask for a rush processing of the 1 week bake, since we've been testing it for nearly a week already now
<ttx> jiboumans: those are mostly bugs you encounter running over a period of time (not installer issues) so updating is ok
<kirkland> jiboumans: these are mostly scalability one
<kirkland> jiboumans: i suspect as soon as people actually start deploying 10.04 UEC, we'll get some new, hard ones
<jiboumans> kirkland: i'm sure
<kirkland> jiboumans: i think ttx had a few more he wanted looked at
<ttx> yes, the securitygroup thing I haven't had time to reproduce
<kirkland> jiboumans: and smoser still has some upstarty/plymouth-ish issues, ISTR
<jiboumans> kirkland: for ec2, surely. we'll cover that next
<ttx> yes our images are still pretty brittle when run over UEC
<jiboumans> then let's cover that next
<jiboumans> [TOPIC] EC2 release status (smoser)
<smoser> not brittle
<MootBot> New Topic:  EC2 release status (smoser)
<jiboumans> thanks kirkland, tt
<jiboumans> *ttx
<smoser> in most cases things are fine. under high heavy load on UEC the metadata service doesn't come up for minutes.
<smoser> the images don't wait long enough
<smoser> so yes, maybe brittle
<jiboumans> ttx: i trust that is noted somewhere?
<ttx> I meant the "can't be contacted by ssh" thing
<ttx> jiboumans: it's difficult to releasenote it since we have trouble to understand when it hits
<smoser> hold on. getting bugs.
<ttx> "UEC image may fail to boot on UEC" isn't a good releasenote text
<smoser> bug 565018
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 565018 in cloud-init "instance is not reachable via ssh" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/565018
<smoser> bug 566792
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 566792 in eucalyptus "UEC guests sometimes fail on consuming user data (metadata service isn't ready)" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/566792
<ttx> the second one is under load, right
<smoser> i hope to address 566792 sometime very soon after release, or at least part of it.
<ttx> but the first one can be hit on a single try, if you're unlucky
<smoser> the first bug (instance not reachable via ssh), i have no good explanations under what conditions it fails
<smoser> it seems timing related.
<hggdh> 566792 seems to happen more when CLC, Walrus, and CC are on differetn machines
<smoser> Hmm..
<smoser> i guess there should be a third bug. i will open one.
<smoser> the 'meta data service comes up slowly' portion of bug 566792 is easily workaroundable in image
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 566792 in eucalyptus "UEC guests sometimes fail on consuming user data (metadata service isn't ready)" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/566792
<smoser> but your boots will just take 3 minutes
<jiboumans> beats not booting at all
<smoser> the "meta data service returned empty data an http status 200" is not so easily workaroundable.
<smoser> that is much harder to reproduce.
<smoser> opening bug now.
<jiboumans> smoser: any issues with the images themselves?
<smoser> well, no. :)
<smoser> not after they're booted
<jiboumans> smoser++ excellent
<hggdh> er
<ttx> jiboumans: they run relatively fine on EC2
<hggdh> there is bug 567592, hitting plymouth, and may be germane here
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 567592 in plymouth "rm: cannot remove `/var/lib/urandom/random-seed': Read-only file system" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/567592
<jiboumans> ttx: when you say 'relatively' i expect you can tell me when they don't?
<smoser> very good on ec2.
<ttx> We could have a generic "UEC image may fail to boot on UEC" release note pointing to the bugs still in progress
<ttx> jiboumans: I meant "comparatively"
<smoser> hggdh, how often do you see that bug ?
<hggdh> smoser: every boot I have the console log I see it. I think this may play a role
<smoser> "have the console log" ?
<hggdh> not the cannot remove, but the ral cause -- plymouth barfs when trying to write to a pts
<nealmcb>  
<hggdh> smoser: the failed instances
 * nealmcb oops
<smoser> i dont think thats true.
<smoser> you're saying every time you can't reach an instance it has that in it.
<smoser> ?
<hggdh> I am saying every UEC image boot has it -- plymouth dies with a SIGSEGV
<hggdh> and this may cause problems for mountall, and cascade
<smoser> correct.
<smoser> but not every instance fails in that bug (read only filesystem)
<hggdh> indeed, no. But the read-only is (as Collin found) a *possible* consequence, not the cause
<smoser> ok.
<smoser> i wasn't read-up-to-date on that
<hggdh> this is why I would really like to have a new UEC image with Collin's fixes, to test it again
<ttx> hggdh: we have a fix for that already ?
<hggdh> cjwatson just proposed fixes for it, this morning
<ttx> right, we expect to roll Lucid UEC images regularly, so we could have an updated image with the fix quite fast if that fixes it
<ttx> there are a few other boot-related fixes in the queue
<jiboumans> ok, thanks for that
<jiboumans> moving on
<jiboumans> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
<jiboumans> my question: release status? :)
<hggdh> jiboumans: seems as ready as possible, with the given exceptions (bugs) above
<zul> jiboumans: not paniacing
<jiboumans> hggdh: that's great news
 * jiboumans attaches the head back to his chicken
<smoser> bug 571271 opened for "simple timeout issue"
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 571271 in cloud-init "uec images should wait longer for metadata service" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/571271
<hggdh> another point
<hggdh> I am adding a blueprint (joint QA/Server) for UEC testing. Even with mathiaz scripts (and bless him!), it is extremely costly in time to run the test
<hggdh> even more with the dpkg/fsync currently in place :-(
<jiboumans> hggdh: engineering or machine time?
<hggdh> both of them
<hggdh> a re-setup usually takes some two hours, and each stress about another 2 hours
<jiboumans> that's costly indeed
<jiboumans> let's take some time at UDS to see how we can improve that timewise. if it takes extra hardware, we can probably arrange that too
<hggdh> thank you. I will add the blueprint in a few
<jiboumans> [ACTION] hggdh to outline testing bottlenecks for UEC testing UDS sessions
<MootBot> ACTION received:  hggdh to outline testing bottlenecks for UEC testing UDS sessions
<jiboumans> hggdh: any ohter updates from the QA team?
<hggdh> no, life is good now ;-)
<jiboumans> any questions for hggdh?
<jiboumans> i'll take that as a no
<jiboumans> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (jjohansen)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (jjohansen)
<jiboumans> hggdh: thank you
<jjohansen> hi
<jiboumans> hi there
<jiboumans> my question is unchanged: release status? :)
<jjohansen> heh, well unfortunately not really changed since last week
<jjohansen> the kernel has been frozen and only a couple critical changes have been applied
<jjohansen> everything is being queued for SRU
<jiboumans> any of those changes or SRU affecting server issues?
<jjohansen> no
<jiboumans> jjohansen: ok, thanks
<jiboumans> i had one specific question about the ext4 performance degrade we saw in benchmarks
<jjohansen> okay
<jiboumans> this is a public one of those:   http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=ubuntu_lts_perf&num=2
<jiboumans> it's a few weeks old though; have we managed to do anything with/about that ?
<jjohansen> hrmm, I actually haven't seen anything about that pass by but give me a sec to check with csurbi
<jjohansen> if I recall correctly this particular test wasn't really hitting the disk but I wasn't the one looking into it
<jjohansen> jiboumans: I will have to get back to you on specifics as csurbi isn't around atm
<jiboumans> jjohansen: no problem. could you coordinate with ttx to see if we should release note anything?
<jjohansen> will do
<jiboumans> thank you
<jiboumans> any other questions or updates for the kernel?
<jjohansen> one other little thing, it looks like trying to go pv-ops for EC2 will be a target for M
<zul> cool...good luck! ;)
<jiboumans> jjohansen: nice to hear
<jiboumans> alright, moving on
<jiboumans> [TOPIC] Weekly SRU review: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/KnowledgeBase#SRU%20weekly%20review (mathiaz)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly SRU review: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/KnowledgeBase#SRU%20weekly%20review (mathiaz)
<jiboumans> i expect very little, but best to check :)
<mathiaz> no bugs nominated for any release
<mathiaz> anything worth SRU in the last week?
<mathiaz> and next week I'll add lucid to the list
<mathiaz> so expect a longer SRU review as we go through the lucid nominations
<zul> nope
<mathiaz> it may require more than one meeting though
 * jiboumans renames this the SRU meeting
<jiboumans> mathiaz: understood and thanks
<jiboumans> [TOPIC] Final call for blueprints for UDS Maverick
<MootBot> New Topic:  Final call for blueprints for UDS Maverick
<jiboumans> Starting monday, we'll do the planning for the sessions of UDS maverick
<jiboumans> if you'd like to have a guaranteed session slot, please make sure your blueprint is created by this Friday end of business
<jiboumans> Please also take a look here for currently proposed sessions at UDS: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/MaverickIdeaPool
<jiboumans> if you have any ideas, no matter how experimental, feel free to add those to the above wiki page as well
<jiboumans> [TOPIC] Open Discussion
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open Discussion
<jiboumans> please, go ahead :)
<jiboumans> alright, moving on
<jiboumans> [TOPIC] New meeting time for the Maverick cycle
<MootBot> New Topic:  New meeting time for the Maverick cycle
 * hggdh really pays attention now
<jiboumans> *drum roll*
<ttx> let's all act surprised !
<RoAkSoAx> lol
<jiboumans> Given that release days/freezes are on Thursday, we'd like to move the meeting to Tuesday 6 pm UTC
<hggdh> YES!
<jiboumans> this aligns better with west coast attendance (hi jjohansen)
<hggdh> (sorry, ttx)
<ttx> 1800 UTC, you mean
<jiboumans> and is one of the few slots left on the Tuesday meeting schedule
<jjohansen> yes it does
<jjohansen> :)
<jiboumans> ttx: if it makes you feel better
<jiboumans> all those opposed say 'nay'
<ttx> that makes me feel more accurate :P
<jiboumans> no objections, the new meeting time stands
<jiboumans> \o/
 * hggdh agrees with ttx
<Daviey> (if it's changed, the date on the ubuntu fridge cal needs updating)
<hggdh> oh, no early mornings...
<jiboumans> [TOPIC] Announce next meeting date and time
<MootBot> New Topic:  Announce next meeting date and time
<jiboumans> kirkland, ttx and myself will be at a company meeting next week, and UDS is the week after
<mathiaz> I can run the meeting next Tuesday
<jiboumans> is there mileage in a meeting next week, or shall we postpone till after UDS?
<jiboumans> mathiaz: thanks for the offer. worth it for you to go through SRUs etc?
<ttx> hggdh: oh, meetings after dinner
<mathiaz> jiboumans: yes
<jiboumans> ok, then
<soren> jiboumans: Will you? Even with the new meeting time?
<mathiaz> even if it lasts just 10 minutes
<jiboumans> soren: i will always. not sure what i will, but i will
<jiboumans> mathiaz: excellent
<jiboumans> next meeting time is Tuesday May 4th at 1800 UTC
<soren> jiboumans: Be at the company meeting at the time of the meeting.
<jiboumans> soren: technically, i'll be in a plane over the atlantic
<soren> Maybe my intel is wrong :)
<ttx> soren: your intel is wrong
<jiboumans> thanks for highlighting that crucial distinction :)
<jiboumans> alright all, thanks for attending
<jiboumans> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 09:55.
<nealmcb> sounds like mileage in that meeting to me :)
<Daviey> jiboumans: New meeting time is long term?
<mathiaz> Daviey: yes :)
<Daviey> okay, thanks
 * Daviey prods the firdge people
<Daviey> fridge*
<jiboumans> Daviey: thank you
<mvo> hi, meeting? or no meeting?
<oubiwann> mvo: no meeting
<mvo> ok
<mvo> thnaks
 * ara waves
 * bdmurray waves back
 * bladernr \0o/
<pedro_> hola!
 * marjo waves
<ameetp> o/
 * fader_ waves.
<marjo> #startmeeting QA Team
<MootBot> Meeting started at 12:01. The chair is marjo.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<marjo> [TOPIC] Agenda
<MootBot> New Topic:  Agenda
<marjo> # SRU testing -- sbeattie (Steve Beattie)
<marjo> # Bug Day status -- pvillavi
<marjo> # UDS QA Track - ara
<marjo> [TOPIC] SRU testing -- sbeattie
<MootBot> New Topic:  SRU testing -- sbeattie
<sbeattie> SRU Activity report for the past week (since 2010-04-21):
<sbeattie> * lucid: 1 new package in -proposed (librsvg)
<sbeattie> * karmic: 2 new packages in -proposed (eclipse, sun-java6)
<sbeattie>       and 2 packages pushed to -updates (packagekit, vsftpd)
<sbeattie> * jaunty: 1 new package in -proposed (sun-java6)
<sbeattie> * intrepid: no SRU activity
<sbeattie> * hardy: 1 new package in -proposed (sun-java6)
<sbeattie> * dapper: no SRU activity
<sbeattie> There wasn't a lot of testing activity this past week
<sbeattie> Thanks to unggnu, Uri for testing SRUs.
<marjo> sbeattie: should pick up next week?
<sbeattie> marjo: heh, yes, will definitely pick up next week.
<ara> sbeattie, yes, with the classic after release quick SRUs
<marjo> sbeattie: anything else?
<sbeattie> marjo: nope that's it from me
<marjo> [TOPIC] Bug Day status -- pvillavi
<MootBot> New Topic:  Bug Day status -- pvillavi
<pedro_> On Thursday 22 we had a bug day based on Evince: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugDay/20100422
<pedro_> ~30 bugs were triaged, Thanks a lot to our hug days heroes: charlie-tca, kamusin, sbarjola and yofel
<pedro_> As for Tomorrow, our target will be the New and Confirmed bugs without a package:
<pedro_> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugDay/20100429
<pedro_> There's a *lot* of bugs to be triaged so if you have some time and want to learn a bit more about bug triage join us. We always recommend this task as one of the easiest for starting to doing bug Triage
<ara> is #ubuntu-bugs the best place to go to participate?
<pedro_> if you want to start helping your lovely Ubuntu project, this is a perfect time
<pedro_> ara, yes #ubuntu-bugs is the right place
<ara> pedro_, ok, thanks
<pedro_> that's all from here marjo
<marjo> pedro_ thx!
<pedro_> my pleasure
<marjo> [TOPIC] UDS QA Track - ara
<MootBot> New Topic:  UDS QA Track - ara
<ara> hello!
<ara> just a quick reminder that I am waiting for blueprints to schedule in the qatrack
<ara> this is the list of sessions that I have scheduled so far
<ara>  * Checkbox Improvements - https://blueprints.launchpad.net/checkbox/+spec/qa-m-checkbox
<ara>  * Improving ISO testing of Ubuntu and its derivatives - https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/qa-community-m-improve-iso-testing
<ara>  * BugSquad Roadmap - https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/qa-m-bugsquad-roadmap
<ara>  * Structured Testing Programs - https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/qa-m-community-structured-testing
<ara>  * Improving Communication - https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/qa-m-improving-communication
<ara>  * Improving Community Laptop Testing - https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/qa-m-laptop-testing
<ara>  * Promoting LoCo Testing Teams - https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/qa-m-loco-testing
<ara>  * Running Mago tests on a daily basis -  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/qa-m-mago-daily
<ara> if your session is not there, please, let me know
<sbeattie> ara: yeah, sorry, I still need to create the apport-udeb blueprint.
<ara> sbeattie, no worries :)
<ara> also, you can start subscribing to those blueprints, if you want to participate in the discussion
<marjo> ara: thx for doing those
<sbeattie> ara: also, I talked with the security team, and a roundtable about desktop testing state of the art and how to collobarate, and they thought it was a good idea, so I'll create a discussion blueprint for that.
<ara> sbeattie, great!
 * ara really wants to participate in that one
<marjo> ara: that would be a good time to get an update on sikuli
<sbeattie> heh, I think you're an essential attendee for that.
<ara> marjo, indeed
<ara> that's all from me
<marjo> ara: thx
<marjo> [TOPIC] QA Team Workitems Status
<MootBot> New Topic:  QA Team Workitems Status
<marjo> http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/canonical-platform-qa.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/canonical-platform-qa.html
<marjo> as you all can see, the QA team has been very productive during Lucid
<marjo> lots of work items done & not many postponed
<marjo> thx to everyone who contributed
<marjo> we need to keep up the momentum going into next release
<marjo> thx
<marjo> [TOPIC] Final testing status
<MootBot> New Topic:  Final testing status
<ara> There are some remaining test cases for amd64
<ara> most of them are marked as Started
<marjo> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/build/all/all
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/build/all/all
<cr3> ara: I'm burning those images as we speak
<ara> cr3, nice :) thanks!
<bladernr> ara:  I'm right in the middle of one, myself
<fader_> Same here
<marjo> ara: i tried to recruit everyone to cover all the remaining test cases including optional ones
<cyphermox> yup
 * sbeattie is working on getting iscsi set up.
<fader_> slangasek just asked if anyone can cover the xubuntu amd64 netboot test, as it's the only one left without anyone starting on it
<marjo> the only challenge would be http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/result/4133/497
<ara> sbeattie, did you read my notes on that?
<ara> sbeattie, the set up with kvm, I mean
<sbeattie> ara: yes, I'm using that as a guide, thanks!
<ara> sbeattie, great
<marjo> ara: thx for writing up your notes on that
<marjo> and posting it
<hggdh> marjo: I think I can mark the UEC separate install as done -- I did it on the UEC stress tests
<marjo> hggdh: ok, go for it
<marjo> fader: thx
<hggdh> marjo: I am wrong -- this is the separate network topo, the one the rig cannot test right now
<hggdh> sorry
<marjo> hggdh: oh well
<hggdh> only ttx and kirkland can test it, to my knowledge
<marjo> hggdh: ack
<ttx> only me, since it requires 2 reasonably-fasy NIC on one of the laptops -- and I don't have my rig with me
<ttx> s/fasy/fast/
<hggdh> marjo: something to discuss on the blueprint I proposed for the server/QA
<marjo> hggdh: definite +1
<hggdh> for the record: https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/server-maverick-uec-testing
<marjo> folks: thx for pitching in; i think we're going to hit very high test coverage
<hggdh> ttx: please ask jib to approve it
<marjo> folks: any other topics for today? if not, i propose we all go back to testing
<ttx> hggdh: it's on our list, it will be approved
<marjo> ttx: thx
<hggdh> cool
<marjo> going once
<marjo> going twice
<marjo> meeting adjourned
<marjo> go lucid!
<marjo> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 12:25.
<marjo> thx everyone!
<ara> cheers
<pedro_> thanks
<ghostcube> bportal.de
<ghostcube> damn xchat
<ghostcube> sorry guys
 * stgraber waves
<highvoltage> hello all
<alkisg> Hi people
<isforinsects> hi there
<highvoltage> anyone willing to take notes? I usually do but I have a huge headace (I asume caused by internet withdrawal)
<stgraber> I'll do it
<stgraber> highvoltage: is your latency back to something reasonable ?
<highvoltage> stgraber: irssi says lag: 1.44, so it seems good enough for the meeting at least
<Lns> hi!
<stgraber> ok ;)
<stgraber> so I guess that meeting should probably be quite focused on the release tomorrow and UDS
<highvoltage> I just want to say that it's an extreme relief that the release is tomorrow and that the iso ended up being in great shape
<alkisg> Many thanks to all of you who worked hard for this release
<stgraber> we need http://www.edubuntu.org/news/10.04-release to contain our release announcement, we also need to check and update the Ubuntu release notes and technical overview to make sure we didn't miss anything there
<bencrisford> hullo everyone
<stgraber> ISO images are fine, tested with nothing major that'd require them to be regenerated, so I'm pretty confident that those will be the final ones
<highvoltage> stgraber: according to http://www.seacom.mu/news/news_details.asp?iID=132 my connection should be coming back up in about 3 hours
<bencrisford> highvoltage:  :D
<highvoltage> so late tonight and tomorrow morning I should be able to jump in at least
<highvoltage> stgraber: yay!
<stgraber> highvoltage: yeah ! will be great to have you back online completely ;)
<bencrisford> are we drafting the announcment in a gobby doc?  that way could eliminate errors/things getting missed out
<stgraber> we should do that yes
<highvoltage> stgraber: there's two things that I keep remembering that we left out
<stgraber> we can probably base it on the 9.10 one and add the changes that are already described in Ubuntu's release notes, though in more details
<highvoltage> stgraber: I always remember it when I'm driving and when I'm in the shower :)
<highvoltage> we haven't mentioned fat clients yet, that is new in lucid right?
<highvoltage> or did we have that in karmic already?
<highvoltage> iirc LTSP 5.2 only came in lucid
<stgraber> proper fat client support is lucid indeed, though not enabled by default in either ubuntu or edubuntu
<stgraber> but probably worth mentionning at the same place as ltsp live
<highvoltage> I think we mentioned improvements in ltsp in previous releases, but yes I guess since we don't provide it in a default install then perhaps it is indeed not worth mentioning there
 * alkisg has been working with fat clients for the past months, had no problems whatsoever
<alkisg> It's as much there in the default install as localapps... it's an optional thing of course, but it's there
<highvoltage> alkisg: that's really good to hear :)
<stgraber> highvoltage: mentioning it is probably fine, though it'd probably be better to add it as some kind of note rather than having it announced as a whole new feature
<stgraber> highvoltage: either that or we can mention ltsp 5.2 in the list of softwares included and mention it there
<highvoltage> *nod*
<stgraber> so, for that release announcement, should we start a new gobby document just after the meeting containing the content of the 9.10 announcement and work from that ?
<bencrisford> sounds good
<highvoltage> +1
 * stgraber created edubuntu-lucid-announcement for that
<stgraber> so, next is topics for UDS, unless we have something else to discuss for tomorrow's release ?
<stgraber> highvoltage: what was the name of the gobby document for maverick ?
<stgraber> highvoltage: the one I found appears to be empty
<highvoltage> stgraber: I'm unsure... checking...
<highvoltage> stgraber: ah right, I emptied it :)
<highvoltage> I moved it to the wiki page so I removed the contents so that someone wouldn't continue editing it there
<stgraber> ah yes, because it's on the wiki ;)
<stgraber> so that's fine
<stgraber> maybe you should post the URL in the gobby ?
<stgraber> that'd make things less confusing ;)
<highvoltage> https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Edubuntu/Specifications/Brainstorming/Maverick
<highvoltage> ok will do
<highvoltage> or at least, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/Specifications/Brainstorming/Maverick
<stgraber> I created edubuntu-uds-maverick in case we want somewhere to write a list of the specs we want as well as a short description (so we can then copy/psate to LP)
<bencrisford> stgraber: think I fixed a typo in your typing, if I was wrong, please correct me!
<bencrisford> i didn't know whether to fix it or not :
<stgraber> sure, feel free to correct my typos ;)
<bencrisford> I really feel that we should schedule the sessions ASAP
<bencrisford> and decide on times during this meeting
<stgraber> (and my english as well if the grammar sounds weird ;))
<bencrisford> because that way we can make it so as many remote participants as possible can participate
<stgraber> well, we can't decide times, that's the tricky part
<bencrisford> really..?  there is alot free on the schedule, do you get assigned times rather than choosing?
<stgraber> we have to put them on LP and poke some team leads to put them on the schedule, then they'll be assigned time slots depending on how plans to attend them physically
<stgraber> so to avoid conflicts with other sessions
<bencrisford> oh, ok :/
<stgraber> so if I put myself as "participation essential" on two sessions as the same time, the script (or human) will likely move on of the two to another slot
 * bencrisford prays to the god of UDS that he can make some of the sessions (remotely, but still)
<stgraber> the final schedule is usually the one displayed at 9am in the lobby ;)
<highvoltage> heh :)
<bencrisford> :o
<bencrisford> :(
<stgraber> (and it may change slightly at lunch time)
<bencrisford> lol
<mhall119> oy, missed another one
<highvoltage> stgraber: do we need a session for the remote-installer?
<bencrisford> its *possible* i can do some during the day (via my nokia and other PCs with frenode chat), but im pretty much only around in the evening
<highvoltage> stgraber: hah! I was *just* about to start typing that
 * bencrisford thinks his little red "t" in the doc looks quite cute
<highvoltage> stgraber: I realise LDAP/Kerberos would fall under the server track/team, but should we add it to our list so long or do it directly from the server team side?
<stgraber> highvoltage: not sure, it's probably not worth a 1 hour session, might merge that into the last one ?
<stgraber> or with the first one ?
<highvoltage> stgraber: ok we can add it to installer-improvements
<highvoltage> stgraber: these are more for sessions rather than specifications right?
<stgraber> ldap/kerberos should be already on the server team's todo list I guess
<stgraber> well, the idea is that for each we'll register a spec and get that scheduled (as all sessions need a spec)
<highvoltage> ok, right
<stgraber> so ideally, each point should last more than 30min or be merged in another
<stgraber> (I know I tend to be attending a lot of session at UDS, so it's always better if we can avoid spending half of the session looking at our mails)
<highvoltage> ok. it seems like we more or less know what we want to do, I can't see anything that would really cause lots of disagreement or be difficult to implement
<highvoltage> it's kind of difficult for me to imagine how uds will happen especially since I still don't know whether I'll be able to make it there :/
<highvoltage> we can probably discuss a bunch of stuff outside of 'official' sessions on #edubuntu
<highvoltage> at least you are there so you could ask the installer/artwork/etc teams if we need quick and good feedback
<stgraber> yeah, I uess that what we really need to have scheduled is session where we need people from outside of the existing edubuntu community.
<stgraber> smaller edubuntu-specific details can be discussed off-uds
<stgraber> (as long as it's on some kind of roadmap ;))
<highvoltage> yep, so I guess we should at least have a session for installer plans
<highvoltage> I'm not sure how much work adding those screenshots and descriptions would be, but it's glade files at least
<highvoltage> would still be nice to get some expert advice though
<stgraber> yep, UDS should be good for that
<bencrisford> do the streams in the meeting rooms get recorded?  or are they just live?  or are they even doing that this time around?
<highvoltage> bencrisford: audio is live and video recorded for later
<bencrisford> video?  in every session?
<highvoltage> bencrisford: yep, there has been before. not sure if they'll do it for this one
<bencrisford> highvoltage: I hope so, that would make things so much easier
<stgraber> last time it was only for a few sessions
<stgraber> these are marked as videotaped on the schedule
<bencrisford> I think I remember there being some at karmic
<bencrisford> but it was mainly like the plenarys and stuff
<highvoltage> bencrisford: I was at the karmic one and that one was very well videod
<bencrisford> highvoltage: really?  I don't remember that :/
<bencrisford> I remember I was free all week
<bencrisford> so I was live streaming and IRCing
<highvoltage> bencrisford: the video wasn't live
<bencrisford> highvoltage: but I don't remember seeing it after
<highvoltage> it came quite a bit after (like, months).
<highvoltage> I think having that much video was just too much
<bencrisford> http://video.ubuntu.com/uds/karmic/
<bencrisford> is that it?
<bencrisford> there is quite alot there :/
<bencrisford> how'd I miss that
<highvoltage> seems like that's just the plenaries though
<highvoltage> aaaanyway...
<highvoltage> something left for this meeting?
<bencrisford> highvoltage: yes!
<bencrisford> I nearly forgot
<bencrisford> I was gonna bring up what to do about the teams blueprint and RichEd
<bencrisford> do we try and contact him?  he has a mobile number on his wiki page apparently, and mdke suggested we could maybe send him an SMS, I said I would bring it up here
<highvoltage> bencrisford: didn't mdke re-assign it to you?
<bencrisford> yes, but mdke suggested contacting him to inform him of the change and inviting him back if he wants in
<highvoltage> bencrisford: I've tried to contact him for even months before he left canonical and couldn't get in touch with him
<bencrisford> we both agreed however that that isnt that important
<bencrisford> ok
<bencrisford> well I dont see what else we can do, and it isnt exactly imperative
<highvoltage> you're free to try to sms him if you want, but I'm 100% sure it would be a waste of time
<bencrisford> ok, I don't think its that important
<bencrisford> but it would be decent of us to let him know whats happening with the blueprint he created
<bencrisford> I guess he wouldnt expect us to put this much effort into it though
<bencrisford> so its more than reasonable to give up I guess
<highvoltage> bencrisford: I don't think you have to give up, if you want to work on it, please do so
<bencrisford> highvoltage: work on contacting him?
<highvoltage> bencrisford: richard hasn't been part of the project or cantactable in a very long time
<bencrisford> ok, I understand that
<highvoltage> bencrisford: we don't have any responsibility or commitment to find him first before moving on with anything
<bencrisford> highvoltage: I think he does have a right to know, but we shouldnt go out of our way to inform him
<bencrisford> if its just sending an email, I am more than happy to, but in this scenario, I think its best not to waste time that could be spent on our project, contacting someone who doesn't seem to care
<highvoltage> bencrisford: if it will make you feel better, send an email/sms to all his known contact details
<bencrisford> highvoltage: it wont make me feel better :), it was just suggested and it seemed a good idea, but like I say, in this scenario it probably isnt
<bencrisford> I honestly don't feel as strongly about it as it might seem, i'm just following up what I started
<highvoltage> bencrisford: I know why mdke suggested it, and I don't think mdke knows richard or had much interactions with him
<bencrisford> I do understand that, and mdke understood too once I explained
<bencrisford> but I thought I should bring it up here to make sure I have done the right thing by not contacting him
<highvoltage> yes, you did
<highvoltage> I can't make that any cleare
<highvoltage> I can't make that any clearer
<highvoltage> you
<highvoltage> (sorry, on netbook keyboard, can't type as fast as I'd like :) )
<bencrisford> regarding the actual blueprint, I would suggest having an IRC "session" post-UDS to work on it
<bencrisford> you guys can discuss community at UDS
<highvoltage> sounds good
<bencrisford> and then I am happy to start working on it with whoever else is
<bencrisford> we just need to seperate the teams into say, 3 groups?
<bencrisford> 1) No/little attention needed, 2) Necessary team (needs attention), 3) Unnecessary team (needs deletion)
<highvoltage> let's take it to #edubuntu since we're over our meeting time anyway :)
<bencrisford> woops, so we are
<highvoltage> (yep that sounds good)
<bencrisford> dont forget to gong!
<highvoltage> bencrisford: your turn!
<bencrisford> highvoltage: my turn to what?
<highvoltage> to hit the gong
 * highvoltage hands bencrisford the big sticky thing
<bencrisford> :O
 * bencrisford is honoured
<bencrisford> *GONGGGGG*
 * bencrisford puts all his strength into an almighty swing
<highvoltage> nice one
<bencrisford> :D
#ubuntu-meeting 2010-05-02
<rtfmda> Hello'
<rtfmda> Is anyone here.
<rtfmda> I am looking for help.
<rtfmda> Does anyone know how to get apt to use a download accelerator like axel?
<ScottK> rtfmda: Help is in #ubuntu
#ubuntu-meeting 2011-04-25
<Ming_Lei> Hi All
<bjf> o/
<bjf> o\
<bjf> \o
<bjf> \o/
<bjf> -_o_-
<ara> *\o/*
<skaet> hi all,  I don't have an agenda made up for this week.
<skaet> pressures of the natty release have taken priority for me.
<skaet> is there a concensus to do a roundtable,  or should we reschedule to later in the week?
<bjf> are we going to have more time or less, latter in the week ? :-P
<skaet> I also didn't get around to surveying who would be around on Easter Monday,  so not sure about quorum.
<skaet> bjf,  good point.
<ara> skaet, a quick round table should be fine
<skaet> who's here and has content for a round table style meeting?
<skaet> heh,  ok
<skaet> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 10:07. The chair is skaet.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<sconklin> o/
<skaet> ara, what's the update like from hardware certification side?
<ara> o/
<ara> We are planning to test the Maverick kernel currently on proposed. Our only concern is that the testing phase is the same week as the post-release week, were we need to run our full certification for 11.04.
<ara> we were thinking about testing this week, hoping that all the patches are going to be verified
<ara> sconklin, how likely do you think is that going to be?
<sconklin> one sec, let me check my status
<ara> if there are any patches reverted and kernel re-uploaded, we could try to do a best effort of 30 systems
<bjf> ara, the cycle doesn't officially start until the 29th according to the schedule, so next week is bug verification
<sconklin> I believe that this maverick wasn't intended for release, and was only for internal testing. The bugs should have been processed and they weren't. The more testing we get the better, but it will likely be replaced by a new kernel during the next cycle
<ara> OK, thanks for the update
<sconklin> and if there are testing resources available before the next cycle, I have another agenda item that may need them
<skaet> ara, done?
<ara> ..
<ara> sorry :)
<skaet> :)
<skaet> sconklin,  how do things look from your perspective?
<sconklin> I have two items that need attention.
<sconklin> The first is that we've had a kernel in -proposed for dapper for over a month, and it hasn't received any updates to the tracking bug even indicating that it will boot.
<sconklin> Therefore, Pitti will (rightfully) not publish it
<sconklin> Pete said last week he'd see about getting some QA resources to test it, but I have not heard anything.
<sconklin> We are going to block the next cycle for dapper unless this is resolved
<sconklin> Second item:
<sconklin> We still only have one archive admin who deals with kernel packages. We've had kernels in our PPA needing copying to -proposed since last week, but Martin has been on holidays and there's no trained replacement for him
<sconklin> ..
<skaet> Thanks sconklin.
<skaet> just talking to pgraner about it now
<skaet> he's jumping in to comment directly
<pgraner> sconklin, we will have the cert team do testing to free qa up for the release, I'll get that moving today
<sconklin> pgraner: cool, thanks
<pgraner> sconklin, I'll be talking to victor tomorrow AM so just hang tight
<skaet> only thing to keep in mind is that dapper will EOL on June 1,  and we probably need those CVEs out by then.
<pgraner> skaet, ack
<sconklin> skaet: yes, that's why we need to get the last one out, so we can get the next one out. At this pace, the next one will be the last one, and we're probably already going to be forced to respin the one we have any only get one more out
<skaet> sconklin,  so clint is not available to backfill pitti yet?
<sconklin> He's available but has not been trained
<sconklin> s/any/and/
<skaet> sconklin,  noted,  and will follow up with pitti directly about an ETA.
 * bjf doesn't understand what the point of being "available" but unable to perform task gets us
<sconklin> 'available' just means I could reach him today
<skaet> sconklin, bjf - problem is that there needed to be something in the queue for pitti to show him on,  and right now we're intersecting release crunch where pitti's on critical path for several things there as well.
<sconklin> and on holidays
<bjf> skaet, there have been plenty of opportunities for training
<skaet> bjf, sconklin.   Will follow up and see if it can become a priority for them both this Friday.
<skaet> (after release ;) )
<bjf> skaet, stable can't take a backseat to development forever
<skaet> bjf,  I know,  its a balancing act though.
<skaet> any one else have any points to bring up?
<ara> o/
<skaet> go ara
<ara> Sorry, but I am still a bit confused by the maverick kernel
<ara> shouldn't we have had another cycle before that? (I am trying to find the email Steve sent after the resync meeting we had, but still I haven't found it)
<sconklin> another cycle before what? Sorry not getting your context.
<skaet> ara,  the nattyreleaseinterlock, only has one this month.   Due to anticipated development release activity.
<skaet> is that what you're asking about?
<ara> skaet, OK, no worries, I will review my emails
<skaet> coolio.
<skaet> lets follow up by email thread then
<skaet> any one else?
<skaet> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:32.
<skaet> Thanks ara, scoklin, bjf
<ara> thanks skaet :)
<skaet> appreciate the issues being raised, even if the answers aren't good right now.
<jdstrand> o/
<jjohansen> \o
 * sbeattie WAVES
 * sbeattie unsets caps-lock thanks to a reset input layer :-/
<jdstrand> heh
<kees> \o
<jdstrand> cool, let's get started
<jdstrand> #startmeeting
<jdstrand> The meeting agenda can be found at:
<jdstrand> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 12:14. The chair is jdstrand.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Review of any previous action items
<MootBot> New Topic:  Review of any previous action items
<jdstrand> [ACTION] kees to setup formalized sign-up page in wiki for qrt testing
<MootBot> ACTION received:  kees to setup formalized sign-up page in wiki for qrt testing
<jdstrand> I saw kees did this, and we are all working on it
<jdstrand> thanks kees
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly stand-up report
<kees> np!
<jdstrand> I'll go first
<jdstrand> I am on triage this week
<jdstrand> I am doing iso testing today and whenever else I need to
<jdstrand> I've started collecting blueprint ideas for oneiric
<jdstrand> I'll have more on that later in the week
<jdstrand> and will start a coordination page for peoples ideas
<jdstrand> I do have a pending update that I hope to get to
<jdstrand> that's it from me
<jdstrand> mdeslaur is out today, but I know he has several updates in the works
<jdstrand> micahg is on holiday the beginning of this week
<jdstrand> but he has mozilla and chromium updates coming, patch piloting and the continued webkit work
<jdstrand> kees: you're up
<kees> cool. I'm on community this week
<kees> I'm also continuing to make my way through the qrt list. most of the short/easy stuff has been done now, so it's slowing down a bit. :)
<kees> I've been working steadily on AppArmor-for-Debian, and I think it's almost ready for upload now.
<kees> I've also been making my way though the open CVEs in main.
<kees> that's a very long list, but I've made progress. I'm going to write (finally) the changelog parser so this can be somewhat automated.
<kees> it's literally been on the TODO list since we switched to using the current cve tracker. ;)
<jdstrand> kees: re qrt> I'm not sure everything on there needs to be done. ideally, it would be, but mostly making sure that stuff where we have security features (eg, apparmor profiles, kernel stuff, etc) is working is the priority
<jdstrand> kees: what do you think?
<kees> jdstrand: yeah. to that end, it might make sense to go through and actually mark everything we think is "required", or not
<sbeattie> jdstrand: dunno, I found an elinks issue that apparently regressed somewhere between hardy and karmic.
<jdstrand> sbeattie: true..
<sbeattie> though admittedly elinks is in universe now.
<kees> I'd personally like to run them all, but there's only so much we can get done
<jdstrand> kees: yeah, that is what I was thinking
 * sbeattie hoes to push more on automation for qrt.
<jdstrand> next cycle, all the non-interactive ones we should get qa to run
<kees> anyway, that's it from me.
<sbeattie> s/hoes/hopes/
<kees> jdstrand: yeah
<jdstrand> it sounds like that will be a reality once some upcoming changes are done
<jdstrand> kees: re apparmor in debian> awesome! :)
<jdstrand> kees: re open CVEs in main> what did you have in mind? is this for the devel release?
<kees> jdstrand: see the $UCT/TODO file. I put an outline of the logic I want to employ. I suspect it would not be strictly automatic, but rather an interactive helper.
<kees> i.e. "make the following change, based on this changelog?" [Y/n}
<kees> it would apply to more than just devel, and could be used for universe too
<jdstrand> kees: that sounds pretty cool
<jdstrand> kees: I wonder about the trimmed changelogs in natty now... but that doesn't have to be discussed here
<jdstrand> well, I guess it is getting the debian changelog, so it wouldn't matter anyway
<jdstrand> anyhoo, cool stuff
<jdstrand> sbeattie: you're up
<sbeattie> Okay, I'm in the happy place this week, after being on community last week.
<sbeattie> I'm still working on the php update; I have a maverick package built locally that I've tested, and am now back-and-forward porting patches to other releases.
<sbeattie> I also did and will continue to do more qrt testing.
<sbeattie> I'll probably pick up some iso testing as well.
<sbeattie> I think that's it for me.
<jdstrand> cool
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
<MootBot> New Topic:  Miscellaneous and Questions
<jdstrand> If haven't already booked travel for oneiric rally, please do so
<jdstrand> beyond that, I don't have anything else
<jdstrand> does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
<jdstrand> alrighty then
<jdstrand> thanks everyone!
<jdstrand> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 12:35.
<sbeattie> jdstrand: thanks!
<jdstrand> sure!
<psusi> is it time for the developer board meeting?
<Laney> Laney: bdrung_ cody-somerville stgraber maco geser: It Is Time.
 * stgraber waves
<Laney> â¢
 * cody-somerville is on a work call. Sorry.
 * geser waves
<cyphermox> o/
<barry> o/
<Laney> what's a quorum? 3? 4?
<stgraber> 4 IIRC
 * Laney rattles some cages
<geser> roundup(7/2)=4
<stgraber> maco was around not too long ago. bdrung_ said he'd be a bit late
<Laney> :(
<maco> hello
<Laney> yay!
<maco> don't know how long til my manager steals me away for a status meeting
<Laney> let's hurry then
<Laney> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 14:05. The chair is Laney.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<Laney> [topic] Review of previous action items
<MootBot> New Topic:  Review of previous action items
<geser> maco: did Slyvestre mail only you the reply to the questions on devel-permissions or are they stuck in the moderation queue?
<Laney> Laney to update delegated teams to allow members to renew their memberships themselves â I did this, may have missed some because there's no LP way to enuberate them all
<Laney> I made devel-permissions unmoderated
<maco> geser: i havent gotten any emails
<Laney> so I'll call that action done
<Laney> [topic] Administrative Matters
<MootBot> New Topic:  Administrative Matters
<Laney> Review progress of probationary period of Marco Rodrigues
<Laney> cody-somerville: any progress?
<Laney> never mind, let's move on :-)
<geser> maco: your 3 replies to that one mail from him confused me as I assumed there were part of a discussion
<Laney> [topic] MOTU application for Sylvestre Ledru
<MootBot> New Topic:  MOTU application for Sylvestre Ledru
<maco> geser: no, i just didn't think all the way through before hitting send :)
<Laney> I assume Sylvestre isn't here
<Laney> and there's an ongoing discussion on the mailing list, so I propose we just carry that on there
<maco> Marcin Juszkiewicz is the first on the list that's not already been told we're processing him by email
<Laney> yep
<cyphermox> If I may just remind people to vote for my application ;)
<cyphermox> (the email thread, I mean, of course)
<maco> cyphermox: there was a reminder email yesterday and i ping'd for it today ;-)
<cyphermox> maco, thx
<cyphermox> fwiw, Marcin has my support
<Laney> right, let's just say: please ask RAOF questions and vote for cyphermox as a matter of urgency. :-)
<maco> hrw seems to be missing today
<Laney> unless you are happy to move to a vote on RAOF, which I would be fine with.
<maco> (hrw = marcin)
<Laney> jelmer: are you here for your PPU application?
<jelmer> Laney: hi!
<Laney> excellent!
<Laney> [topic] Per-Package Uploader application for Jelmer Vernooij
<MootBot> New Topic:  Per-Package Uploader application for Jelmer Vernooij
<Laney> jelmer is applying for upload access to bzr, bzr-svn, bzr-git, bzr-grep, bzr-hg, bzr-gtk, qbzr, bzr-cvsimport, bzr-dbus, bzr-email, bzr-explorer, bzr-fastimport, bzr-loom, bzr-pqm, bzr-rewrite, bzr-search, bzr-stats, bzr-upload, bzr-xmloutput, bzrtools, trac-bzr, wikkid, dulwich, subvertpy, meliae, tevent, talloc, ldb, samba4, heimdal, openchange, samba
<Laney> jelmer: have you thought of going for a bzr package set? Are there likely to be any others interested in uploading a similar list of packages in the future?
<jelmer> Laney: I think a bzr package set might be a good idea. Poolie also has PPU rights for just bzr-related packages, and there are others in the bzr world (maxb?) who might be interested in becoming a PPU in the future too.
<Laney> I certainly think that the bzr world would be a good candidate for a package set, and would encourage you to ask for that soon :-)
<Laney> As I'm always interested in Debian coordination: how well is pkg-bazaar working? Do you mainly do work in Debian first and then sync? Is there much delta?
<jelmer> Laney: yeah, at the moment that's how things work mostly. I (and more recently, Andrew S-B) usually upload to Debian and the we request a sync.
<jelmer> There is occasionally some delta around releases in Debian and Ubuntu, which makes the process trickier.
<Laney> do you have any non-ubuntu people involved?
<jelmer> Max Bowser does quite a bit of packaging too. He does use Ubuntu but he's not a Ubuntu or Debian developer; there are some other uploaders who only care about Debian but they've been busy with real-life recently.
<Laney> :-)
<Laney> maco: geser: stgraber: any questions?
<stgraber> nope, I'm ready to vote.
<geser> no
 * stgraber is always happy to find more people with samba knowledge, that's usually useful to have around :)
<Laney> alright, bzr packages first
<Laney> [vote] grant jelmer PPU access to bzr, bzr-svn, bzr-git, bzr-grep, bzr-hg, bzr-gtk, qbzr, bzr-cvsimport, bzr-dbus, bzr-email, bzr-explorer, bzr-fastimport, bzr-loom, bzr-pqm, bzr-rewrite, bzr-search, bzr-stats, bzr-upload, bzr-xmloutput, bzrtools, trac-bzr, wikkid, dulwich, subvertpy, meliae
<MootBot> Please vote on:  grant jelmer PPU access to bzr, bzr-svn, bzr-git, bzr-grep, bzr-hg, bzr-gtk, qbzr, bzr-cvsimport, bzr-dbus, bzr-email, bzr-explorer, bzr-fastimport, bzr-loom, bzr-pqm, bzr-rewrite, bzr-search, bzr-stats, bzr-upload, bzr-xmloutput, bzrtools, trac-bzr, wikkid, dulwich, subvertpy, meliae.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<geser> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from geser. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<Laney> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from Laney. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<stgraber> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from stgraber. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<stgraber> maco, bdrung_, cody-somerville: ?
<Laney> Might have to collect the remaining votes by email.
<stgraber> well, there's not much point in continuing the meeting if we don't have quorum, so I'd just wait a few more minutes for maco to come back, cody-somerville to finish his call or bdrung_ to show up.
<cody-somerville> I'm almost off my call
<Laney> yep.
<maco> im back
<maco> sorry, my manager pulled me aside, and i'm +1 for jelmer
<stgraber> maco: can you +1 the right way so the bot understands it ? :)
<maco> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from maco. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<stgraber> thanks ;)
<maco> ah i wasnt sure the bot was still listening, sorry
<Laney> excellent
<Laney> [endvote]
<MootBot> Final result is 4 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 4
<Laney> & the samba ones:
<Laney> [vote] Grant jelmer PPU access to tdb tevent talloc ldb, samba4, heimdal, openchange, samba
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Grant jelmer PPU access to tdb tevent talloc ldb, samba4, heimdal, openchange, samba.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<Laney> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from Laney. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<geser> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from geser. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<stgraber> +1 [upstream + maintainer in Debian]
<MootBot> +1 received from stgraber. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<maco> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from maco. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<Laney> [endvote]
<MootBot> Final result is 4 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 4
<Laney> congratulations jelmer!
<jelmer> thanks everyone :)
<Laney> moving on...
<Laney> [topic] Extension of the Zope packageset
<MootBot> New Topic:  Extension of the Zope packageset
<Laney> geser: do you want to take this? You were involved in the discussions IIRC
 * cody-somerville is here.
<geser> Laney: can do
<Laney> looks like we need to vote on the 5 new packages?
<geser> Laney: yes
<geser> Gediminas Paulauskas asked in the past about a zope packageset which got approved
<Laney> [link] https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/devel-permissions/2011-March/000168.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/devel-permissions/2011-March/000168.html
<geser> but as the packages weren't yet in the archive it could get added in LP to the packageset
<geser> Gediminas asked now to add those packages as they are now in the archive
<geser> I've compared the list he mentioned with the one which got already approved
<geser> and 5 packages were new, so we need to formally vote about it before they can get added to the packageset
<Laney> it's clear to me that these new packages are sufficiently similar to the ones already in the set that they ought be a part of it
<maco> agreed
<Laney> I know that for the cli-mono set we've an agreement with the TB that new packages need not have formal approval (as they are usually so similar), do you think such an arrangement could work here?
<cody-somerville> What exactly would the agreement be?
<Laney> roughly â ping devel-permissions/d-m-b about additions, if no objections after 1 week (or some time period), packages get added
<cody-somerville> But what are the criteria for the packages?
<geser> Laney: depends on what was approved by the TB
<cody-somerville> ie. is it any package that begins with 'zope' or that is zope related or ...?
<Laney> well they have to fall within the scope of the set
<Laney> we could address on an ad-hoc basis if ever an unclear package comes up
<geser> e.g. the mozilla set has a "description" of what packages belong to that set so it easy to add packages to it as long as they match on what was approved
<geser> the zope package set was based on a package list
<Laney> right, cli-mono is different as it's basically a mirror of some Debian team's packages
<Laney> let's leave that then
<cody-somerville> It appears there a zope section in the archive.
<Laney> Perhaps that could be used to determine the set then, depending on what criteria are used to put packages there
<geser> btw I'm fine to make the zope package set more "wildcard" (zope\..* | z3c\..*) if it eases the maintainance in the future
<Laney> let's discuss it another time if there's interest/adding new packages starts to take more of our time
<Laney> for now...
<Laney> [vote] add z3c.ptcompat zope.applicationcontrol zope.fixers zope.login zope.pluggableauth to zope package set
<MootBot> Please vote on:  add z3c.ptcompat zope.applicationcontrol zope.fixers zope.login zope.pluggableauth to zope package set.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<cody-somerville> ugh, it appears https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperMembershipBoard/TeamReports isn't being updated.
<maco> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from maco. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<cody-somerville> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from cody-somerville. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<Laney> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from Laney. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<stgraber> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from stgraber. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<geser> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from geser. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 5
<Laney> [endvote]
<MootBot> Final result is 5 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 5
<stgraber> that was easy :)
<maco> cody-somerville: "ugh it appears"?
<Laney> nobody is taking the time to do it :-)
<Laney> i'll try and do it with the minutes
<Laney> doesn't look like jcrigby is here
<maco> jcrigby is next. he's in #ubuntu, so i just pinged
<Laney> 25/04 20:47:16 -!-  idle     : 0 days 16 hours 53 mins 8 secs [signon: Wed Apr 20 04:27:07 2011]
<Laney> if he turns up we can process him next
<maco> ah i didnt check idle time
<Laney> mterry: are you here?
<mterry> yes
<mterry> Laney, ^
<Laney> excellent
<Laney> we are making progress
<Laney> [topic] Core Developer application for Michael Terry
<MootBot> New Topic:  Core Developer application for Michael Terry
<Laney> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/mterry/CoreDev
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/mterry/CoreDev
<Laney> back in 2 minutes â someone else please lead questioning
 * mterry takes silence as consent
<maco> mterry: do you think a "Patch Postal Service" is something the patch review team could help with, and have you had any involvement with the patch review team?
<mterry> maco, I'm a patch pilot (just did some today).  That's one of the primary prompts to finally applying for core-dev.  Too many patches I had to pass on
<cody-somerville> mterry, Do you have permissions to upload to the Ubuntu Desktop package set?
<mterry> maco, I think the new DEX effort is basically what I wanted by a "Postal Service"
<mterry> maco, there's a session at UDS about it that I plan to attend
<mterry> cody-somerville, yes
<mterry> cody-somerville, I do most of my Canonical work via the ubuntu-desktop set
<mterry> But I still hit things that I'd like to have core-dev for (including the above mentioned patch review reasons) so I thought it would be useful
<geser> mterry: do you see this slow patch forwarding mostly in the ubuntu-desktop team or in whole Ubuntu?
<cody-somerville> mterry, Being a core developer is more than just upload permissions, its a position of leadership. Can you give us an example where you've demonstrated strong leadership within the Ubuntu community?
<mterry> geser, whole Ubuntu.  One thing I love doing is getting packages down to syncable state during the start of a cycle, the merge window
<mterry> So I will often see a package with a bunch of tiny useful changes that should have been sent to Debian a while ago
<mterry> No one's fault really -- people are busy or Debian is in freeze and they pile up
<mterry> cody-somerville, leadership...  Probably not something non-technical?  I'm more of a work-quietly-get-things-done person.
<cody-somerville> mterry, How familiar would you say you are with the Ubuntu release and development policies and practices? Familiar enough to mentor a new contributor on them / walk them through the process?
<mterry> cody-somerville, yes, I believe so
<mterry> cody-somerville, I do sometimes when talking to people in my Loco, but I don't explicitly mentor people formally
<cody-somerville> mterry, Are you a MOTU?
<mterry> cody-somerville, yeah
<mterry> cody-somerville, for a little over a year now maybe?
<Laney> (you can answer Cody's question first) One thing I keep coming up against as someone who maintains certain Desktop team packages in Debian is that I have a very hard time getting the Desktop team to proactively work with us. For example (banshee and tomboy) we try to upload to Debian and then sync/merge to Ubuntu. We also try to store the Ubuntu packaging in Alioth's git too. The problem is that Ubuntu patches are often so urgent ...
<Laney> ... that they cannot wait, or are simply not discussed with us at all. I don't know how to improve this. Do you have any ideas?
<Laney> :-)
<mterry> Laney, I think I know what you mean, that Ubuntu's GNOME packaging is often just a complete fork from Debian because we often update as soon as upstream does and don't wait for Debian
<Laney> more than that
<cody-somerville> mterry, I notice you only have endorsements from co-workers. Are there any community members you work with regularly?
<Laney> I have sometimes explicitly asked for patches to be forwarded or indicated that I'm willing to do the work in Debian first and then sync/merge only to later come back and find that the upload has been done regardless.
<mterry> cody-somerville, not really, no.  Most of my Ubuntu work is sponsoring patches from random people, Desktop work with coworkers, or maintaining my own packages (like deja-dup)
<Laney> anyway that's just a general problem I have, not something I expect you to solve
<mterry> Laney, my first reaction is that regular efforts at sending back patches we have to Debian would help, but it sounds like you want tighter integration, that you're saying some outreach efforts are ignored?
<cody-somerville> mterry, Are there not any community contributors involved with desktop? If not, what can be done to improve that?
<Laney> right
<mterry> Laney, I know this next cycle with 3.0, the Desktop team is planning an explicit patch-forward review
<Laney> I'm saying that sometimes you have Debian maintainers who actively want to help Ubuntu and are willing to 'go the extra mile', and that they are being rebuffed.
<Laney> it's partly because the work is so high tempo and otherwise fixes would get dropped I imagine
<mterry> cody-somerville, I'm know there are community members, but the constant keeping-up-with-GNOME may be a bit much for them, especially since there are so many on the Canonical side that do it anyway
<mterry> cody-somerville, but the GNOME 3.0 PPA has had lots of interested community help
<mterry> cody-somerville, partly because Canonical people were so busy, so it had to be done by community or not at all
<cody-somerville> mterry, Can you provide an example of a really technically difficult problem or bug that you solved and are proud of?
<mterry> cody-somerville, so there's definitely people willing to help.  It's just a matter of finding opportunities
<mterry> cody-somerville, I'm super happy with my involvement this cycle with helping on indicators
<cody-somerville> mterry, Whose responsibility do you think it is to find and facilitate those opportunities?
<mterry> cody-somerville, I fixed so many crashers from bad memory use or signal connection through chasing code and staring at ref/unref pairs
<mterry> so if your panel isn't crashing in natty, I'm going to take the credit  :)
<cody-somerville> mterry, Why was there so many crashers and bad memory use? ;)
<mterry> cody-somerville, :) It was many examples of a common gobject mistake that I kept having to find and chase down
<mterry> cody-somerville, hopefully the DX team won't make those mistakes again now
<mterry> after having to review so many of my branches
<mterry> cody-somerville, I think the Canonical people would be a good respoinsibility source for finding low-hanging-fruit for community members
<mterry> Not necessarily the only people to do so
<mterry> But they know what they arem
<mterry> aren't working on, so can flag such items as 'would be nice for someone to pick this up'
<cody-somerville> mterry, How can community contributors get deeply involved? Is that even possible in the desktop team?
<mterry> cody-somerville, it's certainly possible.  We don't do anything secretly.  It's just that, for example, 2.31.3 is released.  seb128 has to assign the work, and he's not going to make a community person do it, so...
<mterry> I think it's about identifying non-time-sensitive work
<mterry> Or people stepping up and saying they're willing to be on the hook for time-sensitive stuff, but that's not a fun thing for a community person
<mterry> Am I being clear?
 * cody-somerville nods.
<mterry> We haven't prioritized identifying stuff, but seb128 always has work for people, and people do know to ask him for it
<mterry> He's sort of the spider at the top of the desktop web, and he does a good job of liasing with community people
<mterry> But it's ad-hoc, not a formal "help community people know where opportunities are" effort
<mterry> Which may be useful, sure
<cody-somerville> I have to run to another meeting. I'm going to abstain from voting on mterry's application as I used to work directly with him at Canonical before he moved to the desktop team. Sad to see he doesn't have more community involvement but I feel very lucky we have him to fix all the memory leaks in DX team's code <grins>.
<Laney> right, let's vote
<Laney> [vote] Michael Terry to join core-dev
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Michael Terry to join core-dev.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<Laney> maco: geser bdrung_ Laney stgraber
<geser> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from geser. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<cody-somerville> +0 - COI
<MootBot> Abstention received from cody-somerville. 1 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 1
<stgraber> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from stgraber. 2 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 2
<maco> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from maco. 3 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 3
<Laney> +1 // Good work, nice to see patch piloting too. I hope to see some of the 'community' issues taken further :-)
<MootBot> +1 received from Laney. 4 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 4
<Laney> [endvote]
<MootBot> Final result is 4 for, 0 against. 1 abstained. Total: 4
<Laney> congratulations!
<mterry> \o/
<cody-somerville> mterry, Congratulations! :)
<Laney> shall we carry on to psusi, or do people have to shoot?
<maco> Laney: cody-somerville said he had to leave for another meeting
<Laney> we still have quorum with the others though
<stgraber> I can still continue for a while (at least 15 minutes)
<cody-somerville> FYI, I think we should try and limit the time of meetings to an hour (roughly). Otherwise people will complain when we decide not to go beyond an hour.
<cody-somerville> e.g. "You went for two hours the other week... why not this time??"
<Laney> yeah sure, I'm treating this as special because of our large backlog
<Laney> but I don't mind ending now either
<maco> got through quite a bit
 * psusi points out that there is quite a backlog from previous failed meetings ;)
<maco> psusi: 3 of the people on the list are being processed by email
<maco> so what remains are the 2 people who weren't here today, you, and barry
 * barry waves
<barry> just a quick note that 2 weeks from now will be uds
<Laney> we've asked for a room there
<Laney> RL grilling? ;-)
<barry> if you run out of time today, do you want to process my application by email?
<maco> oh right. i can add "commencement" to the list of answers for "why aren't you going to UDS?"
<barry> maco: bummer!
 * psusi didn't know this could be done via email
<barry> well, commencement == good :)
<Laney> :-)
<Laney> we should be able to meet at UDS next time (I think most of us will be there)
 * Laney bangs a gong
<Laney> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 15:22.
<mterry> Thanks all!
<maco> shall i remove the finished people from the agenda page and update the numberings?
 * bdrung_ arrives.
<Laney> yes please
<Laney> maco: you could mark the emailers with an E or something
<bdrung_> seems that i am too late.
<Laney> maco: if you want to action the permissions then that's cool too (and send out the annouces, et cetera)
<Laney> otherwise I'll do it tomorrow probably
<psusi> so did I hear that my application can be processed via email?  what do I need to do for that?
 * barry has same question
<geser> I'm already working on the package addition to the zope package set but have to wait to get the zope package set owned by DMB again (or ask a TB member to do it)
<Laney> psusi: barry: We prefer not to, as it means that applications can drag on and eat up a lot of everyone's time. The only reason we invited the top three is because we repeatedly failed to meet and accrued a huge backlog.
<barry> Laney: cool, no worries.  i'll be at uds so i'm happy to meet IRL and sit on the hot seat :)
<psusi> ok.... I guess I can wait yet another two weeks... though if someone has a moment to look at my application and let me know if there is anything more I can do to prepare for next time, I would appreciate it
<Laney> psusi: Having a few positive endorsements is the main thing you can ensure
<psusi> yea, I'll have to keep poking people about that...
<maco> Laney: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperMembershipBoard/Agenda look right?
<Laney> maco: looks much more healthy
<stgraber> Laney: might be worth e-mailing everyone on UDS' DMB meeting agenda to tell them we'll have a room (once we're sure we have a room ;)) and can meet in person if they are around
<Laney> will do
<Laney> I need to ping Marianna again
<Laney> ...and book my flights (/me runs)
<geser> do you have quorum with DMB members at UDS or need also some on IRC?
<stgraber> Laney: also, it'd be nice if the meeting could appear on summit.ubuntu.com with everyone attending it marked as participation essential so the scheduling thingy doesn't put us in another meeting at the same time
<Laney> stgraber: yeah, after it gets scheduled I'll try and sort it
<Laney> geser: I think we have Laney stgraber cody-somerville bdrung_, so quorum, but that doesn't mean that you aren't wanted as well :-)
 * Laney runs off to dinner
<nhandler> topyli: /ninfo mootbot
<nhandler> (ignore that)
#ubuntu-meeting 2011-04-26
 * smb wonders whether there is a server-team meeting today...
 * RoAkSoAx too
<smb> Just looked in the scrollback and it was announced for Tue Apr-25 which is sort of impossible to archive...
<smb> well at least not this year... :-P
<smoser> kirkland turn to run
<smoser> i did not archive
<smoser> :-(
<jamespage> o/
<RoAkSoAx> \o/
<smb> \o
<kirkland> hey
<kirkland> having trouble with my IRC client
<kirkland> i think i have it sorted now
<kirkland> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 11:09. The chair is kirkland.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<kirkland> [topic] Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<MootBot> New Topic:  Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<kirkland> I don't see any here
<kirkland> [topic] Natty Development
<MootBot> New Topic:  Natty Development
<kirkland> Daviey / robbiew: ^
<robbiew> If there's any "Natty Development"
<robbiew> we have a problem ;)
<kirkland> :-)
<kirkland> robbiew: cool;  so shift focus from Natty Development to Natty SRUs + Oneiric Blueprints?
<robbiew> yeah
<kirkland> robbiew: okay, I'll change that heading to Oneiric Development after the meeting
<kirkland> [topic] Ubuntu Server Team Events
<MootBot> New Topic:  Ubuntu Server Team Events
<kirkland> zul is at OpenStack Summit this week, I think
<kirkland> we'll all be in Budapest for UDS in less than 2 weeks
<jamespage> \o/
<kirkland> anything else worth mentioning?
<jamespage> I'm at puppetcamp in amsterdam later this week
<kirkland> jamespage: oh, great
<kirkland> jamespage: will very much like to hear your trip report from that
<jamespage> kirkland: ack
<kirkland> jamespage: I believe lynxman will be talking to the Puppet folks about Orchestra there
<kirkland> [topic] Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
<kirkland> hggdh: ^ ?
<hggdh> only that Euca is working :-)
<hggdh> so far
<RoAkSoAx> \o/
<kirkland> \o/
 * kirkland high fives hggdh 
 * hggdh high-fives kirkland back
<kirkland> [topic] Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb)
<kirkland> smb: ^
<smb> After completing the walk through ec2-next for lucid I sort of crashed. Unfortunately so does hardy xen in bug 705562.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 705562 in linux (Ubuntu Hardy) "ami-6836dc01 8.04 32 bit AMI kernel lock bug" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/705562
<smb> Despite the initial pointing towards some interrupt patches, it rather looks like some corruption in the page struct
<smb> I hope to have some debug magic, but need the reporters to recreate it as it needs some workload/data setup
<smb> Not much more due to Easter
<smb> ..
<kirkland> smb: okay, thanks
<kirkland> [topic] Weekly Updates & Questions for the Documentation Team (sommer)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the Documentation Team (sommer)
<RoAkSoAx> I have a kernel related bug that I believe should be taken care off:  bug #756894 which has apparently been unnoticed... :(
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 756894 in linux (Ubuntu) "mount.ocfs2: join errors when node with kernel >= 2.6.37 joins with nodes with kernels < 2.6.37" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/756894
<kirkland> sommer is not here
<kirkland> [topic] Weekly Updates & Questions from the Ubuntu Community
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions from the Ubuntu Community
<kirkland> kim0 is not here
<kirkland> [topic] Open Discussion
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open Discussion
<kirkland> anyone?  anything?
<RoAkSoAx> I have a kernel related bug that I believe should be taken care off:  bug #756894 which has apparently been unnoticed... :(
<RoAkSoAx> smb: ^^
<smb> RoAkSoAx, will take a look
<RoAkSoAx> smb: thanks :)
<smb> bug 756894
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 756894 in linux (Ubuntu) "mount.ocfs2: join errors when node with kernel >= 2.6.37 joins with nodes with kernels < 2.6.37" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/756894
<kirkland> RoAkSoAx: fwiw, poke JFo when you need to get a kernel bug noticed ;-)
<JFo> :)
<RoAkSoAx> kirkland: will do ;)
<kirkland> [topic] Announce next meeting date and time
<MootBot> New Topic:  Announce next meeting date and time
<kirkland> May 3rd, same time, same place
<kirkland> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 11:23.
<bjf> ##
<bjf> ## Kernel team meeting in 5 minutes
<bjf> ##
<kamal> o/
<ppisati> o/
<sconklin> \o
<JFo> \o/
<bjf> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 12:00. The chair is bjf.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<cking> o\
<bjf> ##
<bjf> ## This is the Ubuntu Kernel Team weekly status meeting.
<bjf> ##
<bjf> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<bjf> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Natty
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Natty
<bjf> # Meeting Etiquette
<bjf> #
<bjf> # NOTE: '..' indicates that you are finished with your input.
<bjf> #       'o/' indicates you have something you'd like to add (wait until you are recognized)
<bjf> #
<bjf> Also note, this is the last irc meeting of this development cycle.
<bjf> [TOPIC] Release Metrics (JFo)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Release Metrics (JFo)
<JFo> Release Meeting Bugs (15 bugs, 6 Blueprints)
<JFo> ==== Release Milestoned Bugs (21 across all packages (down 31)) ====
<JFo>  * 1 linux kernel bugs (down 1)
<JFo>  * 0 linux-ti-omap4 bugs (no change)
<JFo>  * 0 linux-meta-ti-omap4 bug (no change)
<JFo> ==== Release Targeted Bugs (272 across all packages (up 36)) ====
<JFo>  * 38 linux kernel bugs (up 4)
<JFo>  * 16 linux-ti-omap4 bugs (up 14)
<JFo>  * 0 linux-meta-ti-omap4 bug (no change)
<JFo> ==== Milestoned Features ====
<JFo>  * 6 blueprints (Including HWE Blueprints)
<JFo> ==== Maverick Updates Bugs ====
<JFo>  * 5 Linux Bugs (no change)
<JFo> ==== Lucid Updates Bugs ====
<JFo>  * 16 Linux Bugs (up 1)
<JFo> ==== Bugs with Patches Attached:87 (down 5) ====
<JFo>  * [[https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bugs?field.has_patch=on | Bugs with Patches]]
<JFo>  * [[http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ogasawara/csv-stats/bugs-with-patches/linux/ | Breakdown by status]]
<JFo> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprints: Natty Bug Handling (JFo)
<bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/hardware-kernel-n-bug-handling
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: Natty Bug Handling (JFo)
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/hardware-kernel-n-bug-handling
<JFo> All items completed or postponed
<JFo> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Status: General Natty (apw / ogasawara)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Status: General Natty (apw / ogasawara)
<apw> The kernel remains frozen for the Natty release.  We now have 2.6.38.4 pending for SRU.  We do have some desirable fixes pending and we likely would like an early SRU if possible.
<apw> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Status: Stable Kernel Team (sconklin / bjf)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Status: Stable Kernel Team (sconklin / bjf)
<sconklin> ||
<sconklin> || We are not currently in a normal SRU kernel cycle due to allocation of testing resources to Natty.
<sconklin> || There are new kernels for Hardy, Lucid, and Maverick which need verification.
<sconklin> ||
<sconklin> || The Dapper kernel which is in -proposed will not be released. Instead, the stable kernel team will
<sconklin> || prepare one final Dapper kernel by the end of this week.
<sconklin> ||
<sconklin> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Security & bugfix kernels - Maverick/Lucid/Karmic/Hardy/Dapper (sconklin / bjf)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Security & bugfix kernels - Maverick/Lucid/Karmic/Hardy/Dapper (sconklin / bjf)
<sconklin> || Package                                    || Upd/Sec              || Proposed             ||  TiP || Verified ||
<sconklin> ||                                            ||                      ||                      ||      ||          ||
<sconklin> || dapper   linux-source-2.6.15               || 2.6.15-57.94         || 2.6.15-57.95         ||    0 ||        0 ||
<sconklin> ||                                            ||                      ||                      ||      ||          ||
<sconklin> || hardy    linux                             || 2.6.24-29.88         || 2.6.24-29.89         ||    0 ||        0 ||
<sconklin> ||                                            ||                      ||                      ||      ||          ||
<sconklin> || karmic   linux-ec2                         || 2.6.31-308.28        || 2.6.31-308.29        ||    1 ||        1 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux                             || 2.6.31-23.74         || 2.6.31-23.75         ||    1 ||        1 ||
<sconklin> ||                                            ||                      ||                      ||      ||          ||
<sconklin> || lucid    linux-ec2                         || 2.6.32-314.27        || 2.6.32-316.30        ||    8 ||        6 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-ports-meta                  || 2.6.32.31.23         || 2.6.32.32.24         ||    0 ||        0 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-meta-lts-backport-maverick  || 2.6.35.25.36         || 2.6.35.28.37         ||    0 ||        0 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-lts-backport-maverick       || 2.6.35-25.44~lucid1  || 2.6.35-28.50~lucid1  ||   13 ||       13 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-backports-modules-2.6.32    || 2.6.32-31.31         || 2.6.32-32.32         ||    0 ||        0 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux                             || 2.6.32-31.61         || 2.6.32-32.62         ||    4 ||        2 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-meta                        || 2.6.32.31.37         || 2.6.32.32.38         ||    1 ||        0 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-meta-ec2                    || 2.6.32.314.15        || 2.6.32.316.17        ||    0 ||        0 ||
<sconklin> ||                                            ||                      ||                      ||      ||          ||
<sconklin> || maverick linux-ports-meta                  || 2.6.35.28.21         || 2.6.35.29.22         ||    0 ||        0 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-backports-modules-2.6.35    || 2.6.35-28.20         || 2.6.35-29.21         ||    0 ||        0 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-meta                        || 2.6.35.28.36         || 2.6.35.29.37         ||    0 ||        0 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-firmware                    || 1.38.6               || 1.38.7               ||    1 ||        0 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux                             || 2.6.35-28.50         || 2.6.35-29.51         ||   11 ||        5 ||
<sconklin> ||                                            ||                      ||                      ||      ||          ||
<sconklin> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Incoming Bugs: Regressions (JFo)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Incoming Bugs: Regressions (JFo)
<JFo> Incoming Bugs
<JFo>  934 Natty Bugs (up 17)
<JFo>  1129 Maverick Bugs (down 136)
<JFo>  1022 Lucid Bugs (down 53)
<JFo> Current regression stats (broken down by release):
<JFo> ==== regression-update ====
<JFo>   * 41 maverick bugs (down 6)
<JFo>   * 74 lucid bugs (down 3)
<JFo>   * 4 karmic bugs (no change)
<JFo>   * 0 hardy bugs (no change)
<JFo> ==== regression-release ====
<JFo>   * 484 natty bugs (up 2)
<JFo>   * 242 maverick bugs (down 8)
<JFo>   * 218 lucid bugs (down 6)
<JFo>   * 38 karmic bugs (no change)
<JFo>   * 2 hardy bugs (no change)
<JFo> ==== regression-proposed ====
<JFo>   * 0 natty bugs (down 34)
<JFo>   * 2 maverick bugs (up 1)
<JFo>   * 0 lucid bugs (no change)
<JFo>   * 0 karmic bugs (no change)
<JFo> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Incoming Bugs: Bug day report (JFo)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Incoming Bugs: Bug day report (JFo)
<JFo> I don't have another planned bug day until after UDS unless someone feels like there should be one.
<JFo> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Triage Status (JFo)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Triage Status (JFo)
<JFo> nothing to report
<JFo> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Open Discussion or Questions: Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open Discussion or Questions: Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
<bjf> thanks everyone
<bjf> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 12:05.
<JFo> thanks bjf :)
<ppisati> thanks
<kamal> thanks bjf ... looong meeting today!  ;-)
<czajkowski> wow that beats the technical board meeting the other day in shortness
<kamal> the kernel team: efficiency is our number one goal!
<czajkowski> I'll hold you to that if I find a bug!
#ubuntu-meeting 2011-04-27
<highvoltage> Good afternoon everyone
<stgraber> hello
<highvoltage> anyone here for Edubuntu meeting?
<alkisg> Hello
 * stgraber waves
<stgraber> hey alkisg
<highvoltage> I didn't plan anything for the meeting in terms of agenda but I guess everyone knows tomorrow is release day
<alkisg> Ready for release? :)
<alkisg> So it's just a celebration meeting :D
<highvoltage> pretty much. stgraber drew up the release announcement / notes from the previous ones and updated the data
<highvoltage> and I'll go ahead and update screenshots / docs on the website (doesn't need anything to heavy)
<highvoltage> everything's been tested and is ready though
<highvoltage> just found one ugly bug yesterday where you basically need double the disk space to install than you did before
<alkisg> Ah. Well it shouldn't be a big problem, most people leave more than 20G for edubuntu anyways
<highvoltage> the disk space doesn't actually get used, but ubiquity requires you to have 14.1GB of disk available instead of the usual 7
<highvoltage> yeah. I ran into it when I tested on my VM that had just 10GB of disk space
<highvoltage> but I think for most real life scenarios it won't be much of a problem
 * highvoltage can't think of anything in particular that's still outstanding for release
<stgraber> alkisg: http://www.edubuntu.org/news/11.04-release and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NattyNarwhal/ReleaseNotes (none of them are ready yet)
 * alkisg reads...
<highvoltage> we'll be filing some bugs and start pushing them into the roadmap wiki page so that we can start througing together some specs for UDS
<highvoltage> I'll post some periodic updates on that on #edubuntu if anyone's interested in joining
<highvoltage> we have quite a bunch of things to fix and improve for oneiric already
<alkisg> http://www.edubuntu.org/news/11.04-release => cachy
<highvoltage> cachy?
 * alkisg meant that it focuses to the point, and attracts the reader to try out edubuntu
<stgraber> ah, missing a t I guess, "catchy" ?
<highvoltage> ah
<alkisg> Ah I missed a "t" there, catchy
<alkisg> Sorry :)
 * highvoltage has nothing else :)
<highvoltage> back to #edubuntu then?
<stgraber> yep
#ubuntu-meeting 2011-04-28
<ogra> fnop
<NCommander> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 09:59. The chair is NCommander.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<ogra> do we have persia ?
<janimo> hello
<ogra> hmm, doesnt seem like
<NCommander> [topic] Specs
<ogra> did anyone get a linklist with blueprint links ?
<MootBot> New Topic:  Specs
 * davidm says hello, 11.04 is out
<NCommander> yay 11.04
<ogra> davidm, oh, thats good news *g*
<davidm> Indeed, too bad I was sleeping when it happened
 * ogra doesnt have any idea what blueprints persia set up
<ogra> which makes it a bit hard to discuss specs :)
<davidm> there are a lot of blueprints and many may have to be renamed, currently there is no ARM track!!
<ogra> and we wont get one ?
<davidm> I'm asking for one, otherwise everything arm will shift to "other"
 * ogra makes a note to tickle jcastro until he cries once a day at UDS if we dont get one
<davidm> goto: https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/~davidm
<davidm> all the current specs are at the bottom labeled  -o- something
<jcastro> davidm: I've been in calls all morning, jono recommends putting them in existing tracks
<jcastro> so like, foundations, etc.
<janimo> I checked the list of BP yesterday, none of arm only linaro specs
<ogra> fun
<jcastro> (sorry to barge in, we can sort it post meeting if you'd like)
<ogra> i didnt get email notification for any of the ones i'm assigned to
<davidm> I did  not get any email either, I think it's borked
<ogra> jcastro, thats sad
<davidm> jcastro, yes lets sort it post meeting, 5thanks
<ogra> well, that was our meeting ... we wanted to discuss specs, if we need to rename them its possibly best to discuss it now
<davidm> Also we need to review any open natty spec's and either close them or move them forward
<NCommander> so maybe we should go around one by one and discuss the specs we have or?
<ogra> NCommander, well, we did that already in the call, i think the renaming would be important now
<ogra> we know who does what (well, persia knows since he assembled a list)
<davidm> ogra, the name is not important really it's either arm or other that is it
<ogra> davidm, well ... i guess we have to live with that
<davidm> if other it will be hard for folks to find but that is the only real impact
<davidm> ogra, yea, I'm less then happy but I don't make the rules
 * ogra would love to rant now about being ignored as arm dev by other devs all the time and now not even having our own track ... but i'm used to be treated as second class citizen nowadays 
<ogra> but i wont do that rant now :P
<davidm> if we have to rename my plan is 	arm-o-boot-speed -> 	other-o-arm-boot-speed
<ogra> that sounds good
<ogra> so people can at least match arm
<NCommander> guess that works
<davidm> Yep it's the only way that folks that care about arm will find them if we don't have a track
<NCommander> Lack of ARM track though is extremely annoying
<ogra> NCommander, ++
<davidm> OK moving on
<GrueMaster> Sorry I'm late.  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/OmapNetbook is up.  Please check it for correctness, it was mostly a cut/paste from Maverick.
<ogra> nothing to move to :)
<ogra> specs was our topic today
<davidm> well lest talk about specs that we have
<ogra> GrueMaster, download link is wrong
<davidm> first is arm-o-preinstall-pool ogra that is yours
<GrueMaster> ogra: That's where I found the images.
<ogra> yeah, its about putting the contents of the ship seed and langpacks into /var/cache/apt/archives om the images
<ogra> GrueMaster, http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases/11.04/
<ogra> davidm, i think that one is pretty straightforward
<ogra> GrueMaster, dont say natty there
<davidm> likely, do you have any guestimate on how much time it will take
<ogra> a few days including testing
<ogra> not more than one to techincally implement it
<ogra> testing the langpacks actually get installed etc will be time consuming here
<davidm> OK what I'd like is if all specs have a guestimate of time in them, could be wrong but it would be very helpful to know some rough idea
<ogra> changing livecd-rootfs to fill the pool should be quick and easy
<ogra> davidm, i know though (since we discussed it before) that NCommander had concerns doing it that way
<ogra> so we should definitely discuss other ways to implement it at UDS
<ogra> which might take more time
<ogra> putting a time guestimate up for the specs before we discussed the final implementation feels a bit premature
<davidm> that is OK lets try to get some very rough guestimates this week and next and the refine at UDS
<ogra> hmm, k
<ogra> oops
<ogra> well, lets get this meeting moving then
<ogra> NCommander, 	arm-o-seed-spices is yours
<davidm> yep thanks
<ogra> any time guesstimate ?
<NCommander> Would estimate about a month if we stil want to implement it
<NCommander> Needs some minor tweaks to LP and cdimage
<ogra> that is: generic rootfs and overlay for /lib/modules and boot stuff, right ?
<davidm> NCommander, if we still?
<davidm> what are your thoughts?
<ogra> davidcalle, it was discussed for natty already but never implemented
<NCommander> ogra: It was more finer grain control for seeding things onto a per image basis
<ogra> err, sorry DavidLevin
<ogra> GAH !!!!
<ogra> NCommander, well, i think the initial idea GrueMaster had was what he called hwpacks (not to mix up with linaro hwpacks though) to have overlays for images on the download server
<ogra> which wuld put all hw specific bits in as an overlay over a generic rootfs
<ogra> i think thats different from seeds
<GrueMaster> Yes, the idea was to have some kind of compressed file with modified MLO & u-boot + any other bits specific to a platform.
<ogra> anyway, 1 month is your ETA for it ?
<GrueMaster> And a tool that would extract and update an image with these bits.
<GrueMaster> Yes, sounds good.
<ogra> k, lets move on
<ogra> arm-o-faster-preinstall-filesystem
<ogra> janimo, !
<ogra> you will speed up our lives
<ogra> how long will that take you ?
<janimo> the SD alighn should be a week with testing
<ogra> yeah, agreed, but thats not all of it, is it ?
<janimo> the generic boot speed improvements depending on what the scope is
<janimo> I did not research ionto the jasper part of the spec
<ogra> oh, right, the arm-o-faster-preinstall-filesystem one was GrueMaster
<ogra> i didnt match the line
<GrueMaster> I plan on taking a natty image and converting the rootfs to various different filesystems to run benchmarks.
<ogra> janimo, i think we can leave out jasper here ... and focus on bootspeed of the installed system
<ogra> GrueMaster, just take into account resizeability
<ogra> with your selection of filesystems
<ogra> GrueMaster, any rough ETA ?
<GrueMaster> Of course.  My idea is to continue to use the existing format and have jasper convert after resize.
<janimo> so there is one spec for SD speed and the generic iterative boot improvements (which are general ubunut-foundation work)
<GrueMaster> 1 month?
<ogra> GrueMaster, k
<ogra> GrueMaster, dont forget that convertion has its own danger ... it would be intresting to have user interaction though if you add a conversion anyway, so he can select what to conver to ;)
<ogra> janimo, yeah, any time estimate for them ?
<GrueMaster> My thought was to convert to an optimal fs.
<GrueMaster> If you want user interaction, that is a whole nother ball game.
<ogra> GrueMaster, and why not use that optimal one from the beginning ?
<janimo> so SD align 1 week, ongoing boot speed at most a month - depending on how much we want to squeeze
<GrueMaster> Because resize tools may not exist.
<ogra> user interaction is trivial now that we have plymouth support in jasper
<janimo> do a general bootchart/perf evaluation and pick low hanging fruits if there are
<GrueMaster> For example, btrfs doesn't support resize, but there is a conversion tool.
<rsalveti> we can even squeeze the boot time from u-boot if needed
<ogra> can we all simply add the time estimates to the whiteboards for now ?
<ogra> rsalveti, we should definitely cut down the autoboot timeout :)
<rsalveti> yeah, 10 sec for omap 3
<janimo> I'd think we should wait with all timing optimizations after the SD changes land, so we make sure we don't optimize something that won't be there with a better layout
<janimo> this includes boot speed and firrefox startup speed
<ogra> so add the right dependencies to your specs then
<ogra> you can make one spec depend on another
<janimo> right
<davidm> ogra, good point
<ogra> hmpf, i got 	arm-o-firefox-startup ?
 * ogra cries
<janimo> ogra, I am happy to take that
<janimo> I did not know it exists
 * NCommander raises hands
<NCommander> I'M FREE, FREE FROM EVIL!
<ogra> well my ETA would have been 6 years and counting for that one :)
<janimo> heh
<NCommander> janimo: I warn, the FF codebase will twist and distort your mind
<janimo> I know upstream ff does a lot of work on startupperformance
<ogra> anyone who would like it, i'm happy to give it away
<janimo> but it is still slow (2-3 seconds on beefey desktop computers)
<janimo> much of it due to sick extensions
<janimo> NCommander, I am pretty sure when I get to the bottom of the uglies C++ file in FF I'll see a "NCommander wuz here" comment
<ogra> on my ac100 its currently at 30sec or so
<ogra> vs 10 in maverick
<ogra> it got a lot worse in natty for me
<ogra> so who takes it? janimo or NCommander
 * NCommander still thinks we should ship Chromium but YMMV
<janimo> me
 * NCommander runs away
<ogra> k
 * ogra moves it over
<janimo> I also think we should ship chromium FWIW
<ogra> not sure about the security team implications here :)
<ogra> we had that discussion at several UDSes already
<jdstrand> whoa!
<jdstrand> no way, not without a lot of discussion
<jdstrand> upstream introduces regressions and then doesn't fix them for weeks
<jdstrand> plus there is no advance warning on security issues, even though we have tried
<ogra> heh
<jdstrand> we are completely at the mercy of upstream
<ogra> everyone is lurking today :)
 * NCommander wonders if jdstrand has 'security' has a highlight
<jdstrand> I think there may be a bp on it. micahg is the one to talk to if interested
 * jdstrand will never tell
<jdstrand> :)
<ogra> TBH on natty chromium on the ac100 isnt much faster than FF
<ogra> they are both slow like wet sponges
<GrueMaster> ogra: We really can't use an unsupported system as a benchmark.
<ogra> i didnt test on panda but wouldnt expect much difference
<ogra> GrueMaster, come on
<NCommander> We should ship lynx
<jdstrand> +1
<ogra> we used to ship w3m
<NCommander> -1
<ogra> why would lynx be better ? :P
<NCommander> Its not emacs
 * janimo writes up Add GLES2 backend to Lynx BP and assigns to NCommander 
<ogra> ++
<ogra> i also want GLES animations in u-boot !
 * jdstrand hands w3m-el to NCommander 
<ogra> add that to him too ... he said he has no evil yet :)
<NCommander> how the heck are you supposed to accelerate a CLI application?!
<jdstrand> plus, w3m-img is funky
 * jdstrand stops being distracting now
<GrueMaster> On my panda, ff comes up in 15 seconds first time, 5 seconds second time.
<GrueMaster> Base image.
<ogra> k, my MMC in the ac100 is probably a tad slower
<janimo> GrueMaster,the logical solution is to skip the first start everytime
<ogra> haha
<ogra> well, lets move on ... there are more specs
<ogra> arm-o-netinstall
<ogra> thats mine
<ogra> a week or less
<ogra> arm-o-partman-chs ... NCommander
<ogra> (that should really not have partman in the name)
<NCommander> Need to research what it will take to get partman to write a partition table OMAP will like
<NCommander> er, parted
<ogra> well, the question is, do we want to use it at all
<NCommander> (parted appartantly grew CHS paritioning when no one was looking, but damned if I can find documentation)
<NCommander> ogra: to be discussed?
<ogra> you could add such stuff to the new flash-kernel-installer architecture as a hook
<ogra> or some such
<ogra> yeah, that will need a lot of discussion
<NCommander> ogra: uh, that won't work.
<ogra> and wont be easy to implement
<NCommander> Lets discuss at UDS
<ogra> a typical NCommander spec then ;)
 * NCommander shouts family-unfriendly words
<ogra> mind wrapping and hard to do ... :)
<ogra> NCommander, make sure to invite cjwatson or ev to the session
<NCommander> ogra: is TI going to be at UDS?
<ogra> NCommander, any eta ? 4 months ?
<ogra> not clear yet
<ogra> probably not
<NCommander> I'd like to know specifically what there bootrom needs
<NCommander> ugh
<ogra> the TI guys from the linaro landing team will  probably be around though
<ogra> they should be able to help
<cjwatson> NCommander: partman/alignment=cylinder, probably
<ogra> and i thinnk rsalveti knows some internals about the rom code too
<cjwatson> (and if you aren't using partman, why not ...)
<NCommander> cjwatson: you've been implementing useful features again :-P
<ogra> cjwatson, rom code fo omap expects a certain CHS setup
<rsalveti> yup, and the trm can help here, usually they put the restrictions there
<ogra> right, but lets discuss that at UDS :)
<rsalveti> sure :-)
<ogra> 	arm-o-port-lightspark
<ogra> janimo, !!!
<ogra> flash for everyone !!
 * NCommander suspects ligthspark has some sorta JIT in it
<janimo> well, would be nice to have a foss flahs p[layer on arm
<micahg> does gnash not work on arm?
<janimo> lightspark is promising if still not too mature(ponly suport youtube)
 * micahg knows it FTBFS last time around
<ogra> micahg, works fine ... exactly one time for me
<janimo> micah yes it fdoes
<ogra> and then never again until next boot
<janimo> but most flash content is moving AIUI towards actionscript3 /Adobe Virtual MAchine 2 which gnash does not implement
<ogra> we could indeed just add an auto-reboot to its code ;)
<ogra> and just release note it *g*
<NCommander> ogra: so we'd turn it into Microsoft WIndows?
<janimo> lightspark needs some more testing and optimizations for arm
<janimo> maybe 3 weeks
<ogra> NCommander, win has such a cool feature ?
 * NCommander thinks emulating Microsoft's design decisions w.r.t. to error handling (auto-rebooting) is a bad idea
 * ogra was surely not serious :)
<ogra> anyway, moving
<janimo> crash-only software is not that bad if it boots up fast enough :)
<ogra> which gets us to the next spec :)
<ogra> arm-o-preinstall-sd-optimisation
<ogra> i think we covered that above
<ogra> 	arm-o-uboot-tftp
<ogra> another famous janimo spec
<janimo> NCommander, the JIT is LLVM based (and quite experimental) so should not be an issue, as that is the point of using LLVM
<janimo> only the SD one, uboot is not my cup of coffee :)
<janimo> that's rsalveti right?
<ogra> well, its assigned to you atm
<janimo> hmm, weird
<ogra> tsk
<ogra> no, you are right
<ogra> i cant read today or the CSS on LP tricks me
<ogra> i always catch the wrong line
<GrueMaster> Maybe your laptop.
<ogra> rsalveti, so tftp in uboot :)
<janimo> uboot == testing booting == testing hw == cables all over the desk == chaos
<ogra> GrueMaster, i'm working on a 24" screen atm
<rsalveti> lol
<rsalveti> should be easy to work with, if the patches are really in a good shape and working :-)
<ogra> and if not ?
<ogra> take the worst case for the time estimate
<rsalveti> then we clearly need some work, probably around 1 month
<ogra> k, put that in the whiteboard
<ogra> NCommander, !
<rsalveti> sure
<ogra> 	foundations-o-image-build-docume...
<ogra> long title :)
<ogra> LP chopped it
<ogra> NCommander, i think thats just "take notes while helping ScottK to implement mx5 images"
<ogra> so we have a wikipage for later community images
<ScottK> I thought it was me watching.
<NCommander> I was actually looking at documenting the stack
<ogra> ScottK, well, you being the customer, we help and document :)
<NCommander> A large problem of ANYONE trying to do anything with our infrastructure is there is a big "?" when you go look for documentation
<ogra> NCommander, seems a bit over the top, but your spec, as you like :)
<ogra> NCommander, ETA ?
<NCommander> Two weeks, plus however long it takes my test vict^W^W ScottK to run through it
<ogra> hehe
<ogra> make it 4 weeks then, to be on the safe side
<NCommander> k
<ogra> we will have finalized times after UDS anyway
<ogra> i doubt they will stick
<ogra> kernel-o-flash-kernel-postinst ... thats me
<ogra> and largely implementing the postinst logic of grub into our kernel images for flash-kernel ... i will pester cjwatson and apw for that at UDS
<ogra> two weeks i'd say
<ogra> i think thats all specs ...
<ogra> NCommander, take over the meeting again (and sorry for hoggin it )
<ogra> (you have 1min for AOB and closing ;) )
<NCommander> [topic] AOB
<MootBot> New Topic:  AOB
<ogra> nothing here
<janimo> are these all the specs?
<NCommander> janimo: feel free to donate more
<ogra> janimo, yeah
<janimo> do we get more (possibly from others?)
<ogra> we will
<NCommander> ANyway
<janimo> ok
<NCommander> if nothing else
<NCommander> closing in 3
<janimo> 2
<NCommander> 2
<ogra> 1
<NCommander> \1.5
<janimo> 2
<NCommander> 3
<ogra> 0.5
<NCommander> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 11:00.
<ogra> 1.725
<ogra> bah
<janimo> cheers
<ogra> thanks all ... enjoy the post release relaxation !
 * ScottK wonders what that is (just did two toolchain uploads ...)
<gaara> i cant blv i waited soo long for 11.04 and finally ended up with having a ridiculous unsolved backlight issue! cant see anything in it! safer being with 10.10
<Ahmuck> sorry, wrong channel
#ubuntu-meeting 2012-04-23
<mdeslaur> \o
 * jjohansen \o
<tyhicks> Hello
 * sbeattie o/
<micahg> o.
<micahg> o/
<mdeslaur> \o
<jdstrand> hi!
<jdstrand> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Apr 23 18:06:33 2012 UTC.  The chair is jdstrand. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<jdstrand> The meeting agenda can be found at:
<jdstrand> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Announcements
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Announcements
<jdstrand> Friendly reminder, we are releasing this week, so be sure to do your ISO testing :)
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly stand-up report
<jdstrand> I'll go first
<jdstrand> I'm on community this week
<jdstrand> I'm also patch piloting (not sure how that is supposed to work this week...)
<jdstrand> I need to do final install audits
<jdstrand> iso testing
<jdstrand> finish up the last bits on work items
<jdstrand> and get back to some updates
<jdstrand> that's it from me
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: you're up
<mdeslaur> I'm in the happy place
<mdeslaur> I'm working on jetty updates
<mdeslaur> and will release mysql from -proposed most likely
<mdeslaur> and will pick something else
<mdeslaur> and will test isos
<mdeslaur> that's it for me
<mdeslaur> sbeattie: you're up
<sbeattie> I'm also in the happy place
<sbeattie> I'm working on fixes for an apparmor SRU
<sbeattie> I need to finish up one work item
<sbeattie> and test isos and get back to updates
<sbeattie> I think that's it for me.
<sbeattie> micahg: you're up
<micahg> It's mozilla release week, Thunderbird 11 should go out to -updates for lucid/natty tonight, with Thunderbird 12 (barring nasty CVEs) going out late Thursday, Firefox updates going out as well, then back to webkit
<micahg> that's it for me
<mdeslaur> micahg: what do you mean tb11 and tb12?
<micahg> mdeslaur: Thunderbird 11 is in -proposed, I'll run the final tests today and push to -updates, then 12 is the security update for that (releasing tomorrow), that we'll push out at the end of the week
<micahg> this is for the stable release migration
<mdeslaur> you're going to push two updates in the same week?
<mdeslaur> why don't you just push 12 directly instead of making everyone upgrade twice?
<micahg> yes, unfortunately
<micahg> well, I'd like some bake time in -updates in case we missed anything with the 3.1 -> 11 update
<micahg> that hopefully prevents a regression in the security pocket
<mdeslaur> I'm not quite sure how that helps any, besides piss off users getting a GUI change twice in the same week
<micahg> mdeslaur: second update isn't a GUI change
<mdeslaur> ok
<tyhicks> I'm handling triage this week
<tyhicks> I'm currently working on an eCryptfs bug that leaves zero length files in the lower filesystem when ecryptfs_create() fails
<kirkland> tyhicks: \o/
<tyhicks> I think it is the underlying cause behind the recent uptick in users getting zero length file warnings in their logs
 * kirkland hugs tyhicks 
<tyhicks> I also have 2 small eCryptfs work items left
<jdstrand> tyhicks: are you getting close to a fix on that one?
<tyhicks> jdstrand: Yeah - I just realized the underlying cause late Friday and I should have a fix ready by EOD today
<tyhicks> and I'll take another update this week
<tyhicks> I think that it is
<tyhicks> jjohansen: You're up
<jjohansen> I have Bug #987371 that is causing problem for lxc in the cloud to look into more. I think we may already have a fix but it hasn't been verified.
<jjohansen> I still have a couple of other apparmor bugs to finish up testing and get fixes committed for Bug #955892 in particular may be causing problems when used with eCryptfs
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 987371 in lxc (Ubuntu) "unconfined containers are not starting" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/987371
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 955892 in apparmor (Ubuntu) "Failed name lookup - disconnected path error for long path names" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/955892
<jjohansen> I have a whole lot of UDS prep to do and will be refreshing the dbus prototype against current, so that testing and further development can continue
<jjohansen> I still have 2 work items to finish off, and I will try to finish them
<jjohansen> up this week.
<jjohansen> oh and I suppose there is some iso testing to do too
<jjohansen> I think that is it from /me jdstrand back to you
<jdstrand> thanks
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Highlighted packages
<jdstrand> The Ubuntu Security team will highlight some community-supported packages that might be good candidates for updating and or triaging. If you would like to help Ubuntu and not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so.
<jdstrand> See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details and if you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-security. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved.
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/dstat.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/phpgroupware.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/barnowl.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/roundup.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/libpar-packer-perl.html
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Miscellaneous and Questions
<jdstrand> another friendly reminder that we should be adding items to the wiki for UDS preparation so we can get this all prepared next week (possibly late this week)
<jdstrand> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
<jdstrand> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Apr 23 18:28:38 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-04-23-18.06.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-04-23-18.06.html
<jdstrand> mdeslaur, sbeattie, micahg, tyhicks, jjohansen: thanks!
<jjohansen> thanks jdstrand
<tyhicks> thanks jdstrand!
<micahg> thanks jdstrand
<sbeattie> jdstrand: thanks!
<jdstrand> np :)
<mdeslaur> thanks jdstrand!
<diwic> hi!
 * barry waves
<tumbleweed> !dmb-ping
<ubottu> bdrung, cody-somerville, Laney, micahg, barry, tumbleweed, stgraber: DMB ping
<ScottK> barry: Meeting's canceled.  Go fix bugs.
<bdrung> o/
<Laney> hello
<ScottK> Oh.  Nevermind.  Different meeting.
<tumbleweed> heh
<barry> ScottK: what are these "bugs" of which you speak?
<micahg> o/
 * Laney co-opts ScottK onto the DMB
<bdrung> isn't ubuntu bug free?
<tumbleweed> it must be, we're releasing
<cody-somerville> lol
<diwic> hmm, of all animals of Ubuntu releases, none of them have been actual bugs...maybe not a coincidence?
<Laney> who's chair?
<tumbleweed> cody-somerville
<tumbleweed> who's backup chair?
<cody-somerville> me?
<Laney> #makingfalafel
<tumbleweed> IIRC Laney
<tumbleweed> cody-somerville: you missed one last cycle, so we rescheduled you
<cody-somerville> alright
<cody-somerville> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Apr 23 19:06:17 2012 UTC.  The chair is cody-somerville. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<Laney> hah, sucker :P
<tumbleweed> :)
<cody-somerville> #topic PerPackageUploader Application: David Henningsson
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: PerPackageUploader Application: David Henningsson
<cody-somerville> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Diwic/PulseAudioUploaderApplication
<cody-somerville> diwic, Hello. Could you please introduce yourself and your application?
<diwic> hi!
<diwic> Well, I've been co-maintaining PulseAudio for a while now. I work with PulseAudio and ALSA daily at my job at Canonical.
<diwic> I should maybe point out that my main interest is really in the debian/patches directoro
<diwic> directory
<diwic> which does not mean the other stuff is uninteresting
<diwic> but a lot of what I do is to try to actually fix bugs and then get them into Ubuntu
<diwic> and into upstream
<diwic> also keeping track of bugfixes that come in upstream and apply them to Ubuntu as well.
<diwic> As for the packaging itself, I had a meeting at last desktop summit with the debian maintainer
<diwic> bringing PulseAudio closer to Debian would be a long term goal for me
<diwic> perhaps even being able to merge/sync it one day.
<diwic> I guess that suits as an introduction :-) Any questions, feel free to ask
<cody-somerville> diwic, How familiar do you feel you are with debian packaging in general and again how familiar do you feel you are with the packaging of pulseaudio, alsa, etc? Do you ever find gaps in your skill set when working on audio related packages? If so, how do you go about working around that?
<bdrung> diwic: an epoch bump in ubuntu does not help to get to a syncable version
<Laney> ah, the package is in Git. Perhaps you could talk to Sweetshark about his experience with co-maintaining Libreoffice :-).
<diwic> cody-somerville, well, I guess the reason why I'm not applying for motu or core-dev right away is that I'm not totally familiar with *everything* but rather the PulseAudio package
<barry> diwic: do you have a plan for getting debian and ubuntu versions back in sync?
<diwic> cody-somerville, and to some degree the alsa packages as well perhaps.
<diwic> bdrung, not exactly :-) but perhaps one could be creative in finding ways to collaborate.
<Laney> diwic: why just PA and not the alsa stack too?
<Laney> oh, perhaps you just answered that
<Laney> are they more complicated packages?
<diwic> barry, at this point? Well, sjoerd who maintains it in Debian would like us to sync it some day. In any way we can collaborate about issues and packaging, we can spread knowledge across and reduce workload, leading to more efficient package and better quality essentially. But I haven't looked in detail to it, yet
<barry> diwic: do you have any sense for the major bottlenecks for a sync?
<Laney> also, are you the only person concentrating on the audio stack currently? I understand crimsun has reduced his involvement.
<diwic> barry, and I can't give you a definite promise that it will happen any time soon. But the upstream relations are good.
<barry> diwic: great!
<diwic> Laney, I was actually considering alsa-* as well, as you see Daniel's endorsement, he seems to trust me with that as well. It's mostly a matter of experience. I've been more into the PulseAudio package.
<diwic> Laney, TheMuso does a lot of the packaging for the ALSA and PulseAudio packages also.
<diwic> Laney, he's the one who has sponsored most of my work lately.
<cody-somerville> diwic, What would you consider more important: breadth of support for devices and features + or adverseness to risk? How do the weights of these two concerns change over the course of a Ubuntu release cycle for you?
<Laney> ah.
<diwic> cody-somerville, that's always a balance, of course. And it's spread over the cycle so bigger features goes in early. One can say that maybe things go in different categories here:
<cfalco> hello everyone!
<diwic> cody-somerville, if it's something that I'm drop dead sure that it won't affect anything else - or at least almost anything else - e g we can match something against a specific device ID (or subsystem ID), it can even go in as an SRU.
 * ogra_ cheers for diwic 
<diwic> cody-somerville, that's consistent with what the kernel people do.
 * tumbleweed has just been reading some bugs, and everything seems to have been sponsored without any back-and-forth. Nice.
<diwic> cody-somerville, but if it touches generic code, it's another matter. No features after Feature Freeze :-)
<diwic> cody-somerville, and no uploads in Alpha/Beta/Final Freeze, unless its terribly important (and double-checked with relevant people, such as the release team)
<diwic> cody-somerville, does that answer your question?
<cody-somerville> Aye.
<cody-somerville> diwic, Are you familiar with the SRU and freeze exception processes? Have you ever driven a request through them before?
 * ogra_ remembers multiple SRUs i worked on with diwic 
 * tumbleweed sees a few: http://ubuntu-dev.alioth.debian.org/cgi-bin/ubuntu-sponsorships.cgi?render=html&sponsor=&sponsor_search=name&sponsoree=David+Henningsson&sponsoree_search=name
<diwic> cody-somerville, I've been writing SRUs. Freeze exceptions, not so much. I think TheMuso's been sorting out the paperwork there
<diwic> cody-somerville, but the best is of course if you've fixed enough bugs so you don't have to make either of them :-)
<tumbleweed> diwic: are you subscribed to ubuntu-devel-announce?
<bdrung> as i said: ubuntu is bug free. ;)
<diwic> tumbleweed, yes.
<ogra_> bdrung, shhh
<tumbleweed> out of interest, why did you wait a year to apply?
<cody-somerville> diwic, Do you feel integrated in the Ubuntu development community? Do you participate on MLs, devel channels on IRC, etc?
<ogra_> (dont tell anyone)
<diwic> tumbleweed, to gain sufficient experience.
 * tumbleweed appreciates that
<diwic> cody-somerville, yes. I'm on #ubuntu-devel and #ubuntu-kernel daily.
<Laney> +1 on crossing the chasm ;-)
<micahg> diwic: do you feel your sponsors gave you sufficient feedback to improve your skills
<diwic> cody-somerville, and I find all these kinds of things interesting, how we drive things forward, and it's also a constant learning experience
<cody-somerville> #vote PerPackageUploader Application: David Henningsson - PulseAudio
<meetingology> Please vote on: PerPackageUploader Application: David Henningsson - PulseAudio
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<diwic> micahg, hmm, it was a while since that was necessary, but in general yes. I remember bdrung helping me out with audacity when I was starting out here. crimsun has also been very helpful.
<tumbleweed> +1 [ keep up the good work ]
<meetingology> +1 [ keep up the good work ] received from tumbleweed
<cody-somerville> +1 - Strong plus one based on interview here today, endorsements on application, and evidence of great work.
<meetingology> +1 - Strong plus one based on interview here today, endorsements on application, and evidence of great work. received from cody-somerville
<bdrung> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from bdrung
<Laney> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from Laney
<barry> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from barry
<Laney> please come back and apply for alsa :-)
 * ogra_ would plus 1 if i could :) 
<diwic> Laney, noted :-)
 * bdrung remembers the collaboration on audacity.
<micahg> +1 - good endorsements, good packaging work, would have liked more feedback in bugs, but I guessas diwic said it's been a while since his uploads have required it
<meetingology> +1 - good endorsements, good packaging work, would have liked more feedback in bugs, but I guessas diwic said it's been a while since his uploads have required it received from micahg
<cody-somerville> is that all of us?
<Laney> i believe so
<micahg> yes
<cody-somerville> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: PerPackageUploader Application: David Henningsson - PulseAudio
<meetingology> Votes for:6 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<cody-somerville> diwic, Congratulations. Your application has been approved.
 * ogra_ hugs diwic 
<diwic> thanks everyone for your work as well!
<vanhoof> diwic: congrats!
<ogra_> well deserved
<diwic> ogra_, vanhoof thanks for the moral support :-)
<ogra_> :)
<cody-somerville> #topic PerPackageUploader Application: Cesare Falco
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: PerPackageUploader Application: Cesare Falco
<cody-somerville> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/c.falco/DeveloperApplication
<bdrung> diwic: i recommend to get commit right to the debian repositories to get started with collaboration with debian.
<cfalco> here I am! Hello everyone!
<diwic> bdrung, noted, thanks
<cody-somerville> cfalco, Hello Cesare Falco. Please introduce yourself and your application.
<cfalco> I've been the official maintainer for a couple of package for many years
<cfalco> mame and btpd
<cfalco> I'll be honest and I'll say I can't be on IRC so much  and I prefer the lists
<cfalco> that's because I my free time is unfortunately not much
<cfalco> I'm applying for upload rights for my packages only for that reason
<cfalco> I'd like to help others, but _at present_ I can't do more
<cfalco> and I feel I need some more experience too ;)
<tumbleweed> cfalco: are you involved with the Debian side of these packages at all?
<cfalco> yes, for mame only
 * micahg notices btpd isn't in Debian
<cfalco> btpd is not in debian AFAIK
<Laney> did you know that Vcs-* for mess points to mame?
<cfalco> no...
<cfalco> I know the debian games team has packaged mess too
<micahg> cfalco: I've noticed that btpd hasn't seen an update since maverick, is the package still useful?
<cfalco> which I'll help to bring into ubuntu too
<cfalco> micahg, hard to say... it didn't get updates for a long time now
<cfalco> still I use it and it works good for me
<cfalco> I see that recently a bug has been opened against 11.10
<cfalco> but I'm not  been able to reproduce it by far
<cody-somerville> cfalco, Have you been able to sync mame from Debian into Ubuntu yet?
<cfalco> plan is to sync it for 12.10
<cfalco> package is now fully merged and working in ubuntu (on my box)
<Laney> So you are now working with the games team?
<cfalco> yes
<micahg> cfalco: have you considered adding btpd to Debian?
<cfalco> _Debian_ games team
<Laney> What did you mean by "I know the debian games team has packages mess too" then?
<cfalco> micahg, yes I did
<Laney> That made it sound to me like your package is something else.
<cody-somerville> cfalco, I also note that it looks like you're an uploader for the package in Debian but you uploaded 0.144-0ubuntu1 to Ubuntu and then Debian did their own packaging of the new upstream a few months later. Whats the reason for that?
<cfalco> Laney, mame and mess are different packages; I had never the chance to package it for ubuntu, the debian team arrived first ;)
<cfalco> codi-somerville, we've been working on different ways until 0.144, we've joined forces starting with 0.145
<cfalco> 0.145 is still different because we had to take some time to merge our debian/ tree
<cody-somerville> mame and mess both show you merging Ubuntu packaging into the Debian packaging in version 0.142-2 which was uploaded 12 May 2011. What sort of collaboration have you had with them since then?
<cfalco> Laney, mess is a derivative from  mame, for a long time it has been distributed in an incremental form to be applied to the mame source tree, which puzzled me a lot
<micahg> cfalco: if one moves files between packages, what are the required changes for debian/control?
<Laney> It was the /too/ that confused me
<Laney> but I get it now.
<Laney> after answering micahg, can you quickly outline our major freezes and how they affect the uploads you'll make?
<cfalco> cody-somerville, I know they started their package from an old version of mine, then they got in touch and we started to work together to make things good both for debian and ubuntu
<cfalco> micahg, sorry I didn't get it... what are you referring to please?
<micahg> cfalco: if files move from mame-common to mame, what changes do you need to make in debian/control
<cfalco> micahg, just change the dependencies I guess? :blush:
<bdrung> that's not enough
<micahg> cfalco: dpkg will warn if you're trying to overwrite files in another package unless you tell it something about the package relationship
<micahg> s/warn/error out/
<cfalco> Laney, freezes come when a new "stable" mame release occur; you can note on mame site that several "u"(nstable) releases are issued between them; these are not suitable for inclusion in the repos because they are often alpha and seldom break something
<Laney> I was referring to Ubuntu freezes
<Laney> i.e. can you just upload a new mame release whenever it happens to come or do you need to take something else into consideration?
<cfalco> Laney, do you mean if I'm aware of the release cycle?
<tumbleweed> yes, he does :)
<Laney> pretty much
<micahg> cfalco: any further thoughts on my question after the comment I made?
<cfalco> Laney, yes I do, I also had to ask for an exception for btpd to fix a bug if I recall correctly
<micahg> cfalco: go ahead and answer Laney first
<cfalco> micahg, well on debian/control I can't think on anything more at present, I surely had to change other files in debian/ to allow the files to reach the correct packages
<micahg> cfalco: right, but there's something about the package relationships that are defined in debian/control that you'd have to add or modify
<cfalco> Laney, I'll have to read some more about the debian import process
<Laney> well, why did you have to ask for an exception for btpd?
<cfalco> Laney, I added the logrotate file if I can recall correctly
<cfalco> micahg, do you mean that I have to manage the package renaming (conflicts/replaces/provides)?
<cfalco> (apologies for mistakes, you may have guessed english is not my mother tongue)
<micahg> cfalco: yes, can you elaborate
<Laney> I'll put it more directly: do you know what Feature Freeze is?
<cfalco> micahg, I had to rename former sdlmame to mame when they merged sources upstream, so I know how to do this... but to be honest, I can't state this by heart, sorry :(
<cfalco> Laney, FF is the day by wich you have to upload the upgraded/new packages. After FF you can't but for very important reason
<cfalco> I'm also aware that a similar deadline exists named Debian Import Freeze or something similar, which I'll have to  consider from now on
<tumbleweed> DIF shouldn't get in the way of any work. It's just the point where autosyncs stop
<bdrung> cfalco: what changes with the debian import freeze?
<Laney> correct, although "very important" is a bit strong - any upload which only fixes bugs is acceptable
<tumbleweed> and other things are acceptable too, with justification
<barry> cfalco: are you aware of anybody else in ubuntu who is helping to maintain mame?  if so, how have you worked with them?
<cody-somerville> cfalco, If you're uncertain about something, how would you go about finding out the answer / getting help?
<cfalco> micahg, I'll try saying that if I move files from mame-common to mame -> mame will have to provide mame-common and to conflict with it to force removal of the deprecated package, and also provide it to allow smooth transition to the new package
<micahg> cfalco: ok, what if only some files move
<cfalco> bdrung, I'll have to match DIF starting with 12.10, I still haven't synced it at present
<cody-somerville> We're now running out of time. Does the board wish to vote now or ask cfalco to return to continue interview at later meeting?
<cfalco> Laney, aknowledged :)
<bdrung> cfalco: what needs to be done to get a package synced after DIF, but before the feature freeze?
<micahg> +1 on continue later
<Laney> yes please let's defer
 * bdrung agrees.
<barry> +1 for deferring
<tumbleweed> yeah, I'm with that
<Laney> I feel like this is harder due to you not being a native speaker of English
<micahg> next time, we should try to limit it to one active question at a time to ease this I think
<cfalco> Laney, yes I agree... it's difficult for me :(
<Laney> yeah
<cody-somerville> cfalco, Are you open to coming to the next (or later) DMB meeting to continue interview?
<cfalco> cody-somerville, of course :)
<barry> cfalco: thanks for sticking with it!
<cody-somerville> cfalco, Great. Please update the date next to your entry in the agenda with the date of the next meeting you'll be able to attend.
<cfalco> thanks to all for you patience and your work! :)
<cody-somerville> cfalco, Thank you!
<micahg> cfalco: thank you for your patience and work as well
<cody-somerville> #topic AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<cfalco> cody-somerville, ok
<tumbleweed> UDS
<cody-somerville> Quick Note. The next DMB meeting will take place during UDS.
<tumbleweed> we're going to schedule a meeting. Any prefences on day/time?
<bdrung> which time slot and which timezone?
<cody-somerville> tumbleweed, any time during Eastern work day works for me.
<bdrung> tumbleweed: which time zone?
<barry> timezone will be utc-7
 * tumbleweed doesn't know the process for scheduling meetings, I tried to get micahg to do the paperwork :)
<cody-somerville> :)
<micahg> yeah, I can do that
<cody-somerville> #action tumbleweed to ensure micahg gets things sorted for UDS meeting
<meetingology> ACTION: tumbleweed to ensure micahg gets things sorted for UDS meeting
<barry> i think we just need to file a blueprint and make all of us essential participants
<tumbleweed> heh
<cody-somerville> anything else?
<tumbleweed> do we also want a UDS session?
<Laney> well
<Laney> for those you might not get conf call equipment in the room AFAIK
<diwic> maybe you can schedule it as a "private meeting"
<Laney> I believe we can ask Marianna to sort that out
<barry> tumbleweed: i think we should take the opportunity to discuss things we might be able to do to make the process better for ourselves and applications
<micahg> once I know who will be there, I can arrange it
<cody-somerville> barry, tumbleweed: I'm open to that provided we have something prepared and ready to discuss
<bdrung> due to the timezone, i would prefer a meeting before 14 o'clock local time
<barry> bdrung: i believe that works out to 9am us/pacific time
<micahg> well, the earliest meeting used to be ~12:00 UTC, you're suggesting 11:00 UTC
<micahg> barry: no, 14:00 local for him is 05:00 US/Pacific
<bdrung> 14:00 local for uds (-> 23:00 local for me)
<barry> ah
<cody-somerville> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Apr 23 20:26:33 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-04-23-19.06.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-04-23-19.06.html
<barry> cody-somerville: thanks!
<cody-somerville> \0_
#ubuntu-meeting 2012-04-24
<utlemming> o/
<arosales> Hello
<arosales> hopefully folks have gotten some rest from ODS
<jamespage> o/
<zul> oh right there is a meeting today
<zul> who is suppose to be running it
<SpamapS> I should
<SpamapS> I skipped so many
<SpamapS> though smoser is on the list
<arosales> Ursinha: chair'ed last week
<SpamapS> smoser: 30 seconds to object...
<arosales> and smoser before her
<SpamapS> ahh
<SpamapS> nobody is updating the agenda
<arosales> utlemming: is up on the list, but I am sure he would let SpamapS host
<utlemming> SpamapS: I was supposed to chair, but if you want to, I won't object
<SpamapS> indeed, the header says 2012-04-10
<SpamapS> #startmeeting Ubuntu Server Team
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Apr 24 16:03:31 2012 UTC.  The chair is SpamapS. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu Server Team Meeting | Current topic:
<SpamapS> and so we begin :)
<arosales> SpamapS: sorry, I should be better about updating the wiki
<SpamapS> arosales: its the chair's responsibility, not yours
<hallyn> and documented on the knowledgebase very well
<arosales> ah, ok
 * arosales doesn't feel as bad :-)
<SpamapS> #topic Action points from last meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu Server Team Meeting | Current topic:  Action points from last meeting
<hallyn> but maybe we're not informing ppl of that
<SpamapS> SpamapS invite aquette to next server team meeting to discuss servercloud-p-cloud-power-management
<SpamapS> hallyn: indeed
<SpamapS> too late for that, its officially "off the list"
<SpamapS> jamespage to raise bugs for FTBFS for server related packages from latest rebuild test.
<jamespage> SpamapS, no longer required
<SpamapS> brilliant
<jamespage> thats really old
<smoser> o/
<SpamapS> #topic Precise Development
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu Server Team Meeting | Current topic:  Precise Development
<SpamapS> Aren't we like, done?
<jamespage> i'd hope so :-)
<SpamapS> done or not, we're moving on :)
<SpamapS> anybody have something to bring up re the release that happens in 2 days?
<jamespage> do lots of testing
<arosales> 7 bugs on http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ubuntu-server/release-bugs.html
<hallyn> bottoms up?
<arosales> release notes these ?
<SpamapS> or SRU them
<SpamapS> we'll go over them for that purpose alone
<SpamapS> bug 928990
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 928990 in cloud-init (Ubuntu Quantal) "fsck / dirty filesystem on instance is death" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/928990
<arosales> any of these we should make users aware of as we release?
<smoser> jamespage, marked that one as wont-fix i think.
<smoser> and moved to that new Q
<SpamapS> says Triaged now
<smoser> well, its triaged for Q. wont-fix for precise
<SpamapS> ah the report is picking up the wrong status
<jamespage> smoser: I did start reviewing them this morning
<SpamapS> who maintains that report?
<utlemming> its marked for Quantal
<SpamapS> bug 930916
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 930916 in amavisd-new (Ubuntu) "amavis start-stop script fails to stop amavisd" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/930916
<jamespage> anything that won't be fixed for precise and won't be SRU's should be pushed to Quantal IMHO
<SpamapS> Ugh thats me, I kept deferring. I'll see if I can get a near-0-day SRU for that
<SpamapS> bug 974613
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 974613 in Glance "Glance database issues after upgrade : 1054, "Unknown column 'images.protected' in 'field list'"" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/974613
<jamespage> adam_g, is that one fixed with the change you made to the way glance upgrades?
<adam_g> jamespage: yes
<adam_g> jamespage: ill mark accordingly with a note
<SpamapS> woot
<SpamapS> bug 974584
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 974584 in sysvinit (Ubuntu) "Semaphores cannot be created in lxc container" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/974584
<hallyn> fixed in precise
<hallyn> open for quantal
<SpamapS> errr
<SpamapS> no
<SpamapS> there is nothing fixed in precise that will not also be fixed in quantal
<SpamapS> hallyn: can you look at the sysvinit status and see if thats valid?
<hallyn> fine.  fixed for lxc.  open for initscripts in quantal
<SpamapS> hallyn: ah, so it was worked around in precise
<SpamapS> bug 880339
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 880339 in mysql-5.5 (Ubuntu Precise) "AppArmor profile needs update" [Medium,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/880339
<hallyn> yes
<SpamapS> still no feedback from the user... but I'm pretty sure we can just close that, all testing I've done shows a working system on upgrade from 11.10 -> 12.04 w/ mysql installed
<SpamapS> bug 907197
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 907197 in nova (Ubuntu) "ip address can't be injected into the instance when using lxc " [Medium,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/907197
<jamespage> ditto - still waiting for feedback from original reporter
<SpamapS> bug 901881
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 901881 in glance (Ubuntu) "nova and glance should depend on python-keystone" [Low,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/901881
<zul> quantal
<zul> or sru
<SpamapS> zul: does it need a release note?
<zul> i dont think so
<SpamapS> zul: how about, quantal *and* sru ?
<SpamapS> http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-precise/ubuntu-server.html
<arosales> So possible known issues to document in the release notes would just be  bug 928990?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 928990 in cloud-init (Ubuntu Quantal) "fsck / dirty filesystem on instance is death" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/928990
<SpamapS> pretty steady push of getting things done everybody
<zul> SpamapS: that would be good idea
<utlemming> aroslaes: I don't think it needs to be documented. The issue is really about needing a rescue console. The behavior here is no different than a phyiscal server.
<smoser> arosales, we can document that, thats fine. but it is present sense 10.04
<SpamapS> Please take a moment today to go through the blueprints you own and make sure all the work items are POSTPONED or DONE ..
<SpamapS> helpful btw, http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-precise/u/launchpad-username.html
<arosales> smoser: utlemming: I'll confirm with you guys before suggesting any additions to the release notes, and what the wording should be if it does need to be documented
<smoser> k
<arosales> roaksoax:  are items hwere going to be postponed: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-p-orchestra
<SpamapS> Anything else?
<SpamapS> arosales: at this point, *everything* is POSTPONED
<arosales> SpamapS: ah, gotcha
 * roaksoax looks
<SpamapS> there is no more doing, only postponing :)
 * arosales just seconds folks to udpate their blueprints
<hallyn> don't we have 2 mor days?
<SpamapS> hallyn: not really
<hallyn> surprised
<SpamapS> universe freezes today
<SpamapS> 1600 UTC
<SpamapS> ok moving on
<hallyn> (n/a)
<ScottK> freezes/froze
<SpamapS> true
<SpamapS> :)
<SpamapS> #topic Ubuntu Server Team Events
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu Server Team Meeting | Current topic:  Ubuntu Server Team Events
<arosales> Sounds like ODS went well
<arosales> m_3 @ railsconf (http://railsconf2012.com/) 23 -25 April
<SpamapS> UDS in 2 weeks!
<SpamapS> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu Server Team Meeting | Current topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
<SpamapS> hggdh: how's 12.04 looking?
<hggdh> nothing from me, fully immersed on 12.04 testing
<hggdh> seems good so far :-)
<SpamapS> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu Server Team Meeting | Current topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb)
<SpamapS> smb: anything to report?
<smb> Already that time... hm not really, lots of testing around but nothing specific
<smb> ..
<SpamapS> smb: thx
<SpamapS> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions regarding Ubuntu ARM Server (rbasak)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu Server Team Meeting | Current topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions regarding Ubuntu ARM Server (rbasak)
<rbasak> Nothing to report. Any questions for me?
<rbasak> I'll take that as a no.
<SpamapS> sorry
<SpamapS> #topic Open Discussion
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu Server Team Meeting | Current topic:  Open Discussion
<rbasak> Bug 974218 may break upgrades from lucid to precise for users with bonded interfaces, causing the server to fail to bring interfaces up on boot due to a race condition. This is difficult or impossible to reproduce, but based on the reports I think it might be worth release noting. Any thoughts on this?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 974218 in ifenslave-2.6 (Ubuntu) "Ifenslave-2.6 problem in ubuntu 12;04 precise" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/974218
<arosales> seems like a good candidate for release notes --> known issues
<SpamapS> another thing, UDS blueprints
<rbasak> The trouble is that I'm not sure how much of an issue it is. But it does seem to be a valid problem, and the impact is severe for those affected.
<rbasak> (easy workaround though)
<SpamapS> Make sure if you have a blueprint that everybody can come ready to discuss. Do not shy away from starting a discussion *now* on ubuntu-devel or ubuntu-server.
<jamespage> arosales, rbasak: I think its worth a mentio
<jamespage> n
<SpamapS> agreed
<rbasak> OK I'll flesh out the bug and send something to arosales then?
<SpamapS> #action rbasak add bug 974218 to precise release notes
<meetingology> ACTION: rbasak add bug 974218 to precise release notes
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 974218 in ifenslave-2.6 (Ubuntu) "Ifenslave-2.6 problem in ubuntu 12;04 precise" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/974218
<arosales> rbasak: yes, please send to me and I'll work with the release team to document
<rbasak> OK
<arosales> Any other release notes items?
<zul> that we are awesome
<arosales> zul: that has already been there since alpha 1
<jamespage> arosales, where can we see the current release notes?  its hard to remember what already went in
<zul> oh good....no other words are needed then
<arosales> here is the landing page for most things related to the release
<arosales> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PrecisePangolin/
<arosales> release notes --> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PrecisePangolin/ReleaseNotes
<arosales> I have a few changes I need to make
<arosales> but if any one has any data to add please feel free
<arosales> Ubuntu Server is specifically @ https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PrecisePangolin/ReleaseNotes/UbuntuServer
<arosales> ..
<jamespage> does someone have something for the squid -> squid3 config transition stuff as its not automated...
<arosales> adam_g: I think you were doing some work their
<adam_g> jamespage: what do you mean?
<adam_g> oh, release notes..
<SpamapS> Ok, if thats all then?
<SpamapS> #topic Announce next meeting date and time
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu Server Team Meeting | Current topic:  Announce next meeting date and time
<SpamapS> Next meeting will be next Tuesday, May 1, at 1600 UTC, right here in #ubuntu-meeting
<SpamapS> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Apr 24 16:38:59 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-04-24-16.03.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-04-24-16.03.html
<arosales> thanks for chari'ing SpamapS
<arosales> chair'ing, that is
<jsalisbury> #startmeeting
<jsalisbury> ##
<jsalisbury> ## This is the Ubuntu Kernel Team weekly status meeting.
<jsalisbury> ##
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Apr 24 17:00:03 2012 UTC.  The chair is jsalisbury. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Precise
<jsalisbury> # Meeting Etiquette
<jsalisbury> #
<jsalisbury> # NOTE: '..' indicates that you are finished with your input.
<jsalisbury> #       'o/' indicates you have something to add (please wait until you are recognized)
<jsalisbury> Roll Call for Ubuntu Kernel Weekly Status Meeting
<ppisati> o/
<cking> o/
<herton> o/
<henrix> o/
<ogasawara> o/
<smb> O/
<sforshee> o/
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] ARM Status (ppisati)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: ARM Status (ppisati)
<ppisati> nothing new to report this week
<ppisati> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
<jsalisbury> Release metrics and incoming bug data can be reviewed at the following link:
<jsalisbury> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/kt-meeting.txt
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
<jsalisbury> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Precise Development Kernel (ogasawara)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Precise Development Kernel (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> The Precise kernel is currently frozen and we are gearing up for release
<ogasawara> this Thurs Apr 24.  Release candidate images are already available.  We
<ogasawara> have prepared a day-0 kernel upload that contains a few bug fixes which
<ogasawara> we would like to have immediately available to users.  We will upload the
<ogasawara> day-0 kernel to precise-proposed today and it will be pocket copied to
<ogasawara> precise-updates.  I then intend to hand the maintenance repsonibilities
<ogasawara> of the Precise kernel over to the Stable Maintenance Kernel Team on
<ogasawara> Friday.
<ogasawara> Important upcoming dates:
<ogasawara>  * Thurs Apr 26 - Final Release (2 days! \o/)
<ogasawara> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: CVE's (apw)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: CVE's (apw)
<apw> Currently we have 76 CVEs on our radar, with 5 new CVEs added this week.
<apw> See the CVE matrix for the current list:
<apw>  
<apw> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/cve/pkg/ALL-linux.html
<apw>  
<apw> Overall the backlog has increased slightly slightly this week:
<apw>  
<apw> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/status/cve-metrics.txt
<apw> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/cve/pkg/CVE-linux.txt
<apw>  
<apw> This week sees the vestages of maverick dropping from the tracker.
<apw>  
<apw> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Oneiric/Natty/Maverick/Lucid/Hardy (bjf/herton)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Oneiric/Natty/Maverick/Lucid/Hardy (bjf/herton)
<bjf>     
<bjf> Here is the status for the main kernels, until today (Apr. 24):
<bjf>  
<bjf>  * Hardy    - 2.6.24-31.101 - Nothing last cycle
<bjf>  * Lucid    - 2.6.32-41.88  - In updates
<bjf>  * Natty    - 2.6.38-14.58  - In updates
<bjf>  * Oneiric  - 3.0.0-19.32   - Regression testing
<bjf>  
<bjf> Current opened tracking bugs details:
<bjf>  * http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/kernel-sru-workflow.html
<bjf>  
<bjf> For SRUs, SRU report is a good source of information:
<bjf>  * http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/sru-report.html
<bjf>  
<bjf> Future stable cadence cycles:
<bjf>  * https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PrecisePangolin/ReleaseInterlock
<bjf>     
<bjf>         
<bjf> Due to this being releas week and people get testy when we upload
<bjf> a barrage of SRU kernels, we are starting the next cadence cycle
<bjf> next week. This also works out conveniently making UDS week a
<bjf> bug verification week.
<bjf>     
<bjf> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
<jsalisbury> Thanks everyone
<jsalisbury> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Apr 24 17:03:56 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-04-24-17.00.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-04-24-17.00.html
#ubuntu-meeting 2012-04-25
<balloons> hey hye
<balloons> everyone ready?
<balloons> #startmeeting ubuntu qa community
<meetingology> Meeting started Wed Apr 25 14:02:09 2012 UTC.  The chair is balloons. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu qa community Meeting | Current topic:
<balloons> can i get a roll call on this fine spring (or fall) day?
<astraljava> o/
 * astraljava is on a very bad connection
<balloons> ahh
<astraljava> balloons: Is it okay if I just present our issues now, and then get on my way?
<balloons> astraljava, yes, no problem
<balloons> :-)
<astraljava> Thanks!
<astraljava> Studio is fine, images -> final.
<astraljava> Xubuntu is fine except Wubi, which is a problem. I noticed that jibel has tested it on Alpha-2.
<astraljava> But otherwise we might not have support for it.
<astraljava> So we have to discuss about it later tonight.
<astraljava> That's about it.
<astraljava> ..
<balloons> astraljava, yes someone was asking about getting xubuntu wubi testing..
<balloons> but they asked so late yesterday
<astraljava> It was me. :)
<balloons> lol -- I see to remember a different username
<balloons> cool
<astraljava> balloons: Can you ask jibel if he has time for it? Otherwise I'm afraid we cannot guarantee it's quality.
<astraljava> But that's it. Any questions?
<balloons> astraljava, I can try and get a wubi tester on it.. i don't think we'll find an issue with it tho tbh
<balloons> wubi has been suprisingly good since the couple fixes last week
<astraljava> Okay, so I'll refer to that when skaet asks.
<balloons> yes, you should :-) but we'll shoot for a result anyway
<astraljava> It'd be good.
<balloons> well, since we're sticking with short and sweet, jibel just announced we had a record-breaking iso testing period
<astraljava> Heheh. :) Cool.
<balloons> as of now, we stand at 108 contributors, and 1187 results!
<astraljava> w0w!
<astraljava> Right, I'm off. Thanks Nick! Talk to you later tonight.
<balloons> kk :-) cheers mate
<balloons> anyone else about?
<kanliot> sorry i was late
<kanliot> i can report that there's nothing causing a problem in lubuntu
<balloons> thinking thru the flavors quickly.. kubuntu is looking good, edubuntu also looking good, ubuntu studio is good.. xubuntu needs wubi testing
<balloons> and kanliot reports lubuntu is good :-)
<balloons> awesome!
<ScottK> balloons: Still need i386 wubi on Kubuntu.
<Riddell> actually kubuntu has a problem in the dist upgrade notificaiton
<balloons> ScottK, I got that for you this morning..
<Riddell> I'll need testers for the fix there
<Riddell> when it's ready
<balloons> Riddell, can you link?
<ScottK> balloons: He's got to write the code first.
<Riddell> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/kubuntu-devel/2012-April/006024.html
<balloons> Well, I mean the i386 is going on right now as we speak.. let's see
<ScottK> Excellent.
<ScottK> We could also use help with amd64+mac images.
<ScottK> The guy that was testing them over the weekend seems to have vanished.
<balloons> On kubuntu?
<ScottK> Yes
<balloons> let me check the list
<ScottK> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/214/builds/15941/testcases
<ScottK> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/214/builds/16004/testcases
<balloons> hmm..
<balloons> who was testing them ScottK ?
<ScottK> shadeslayer.
<ScottK> He seems to have got lost in the wilds of India the last few days though.
<balloons> lol
<balloons> well, I'll try a 2 for 1 deal.. are th eamd+64 isos going to be rebuilt when you make the dist-upgrade fix?
<balloons> basically, I can put folks on alert to test as soon as the change drops.. I don't want to make them test twice if we know a respin is coming :-)
<kanliot> balloons is that dist-upgrade notification issue .... what is the bug #  (should i test for lubuntu?)
<balloons> kanliot, sounds like it's just for kde.. Looks like a muon bug
<kanliot> ty
<balloons> np
<balloons> ok, so in summary, release is looking good for tomorrow. Xubuntu would like wubi testing, kubuntu waiting on wubi results, and would like amd64+mac help..
<balloons> Anyone else? Any status updates or questions/concerns?
<Riddell> balloons: kubuntu will need oneiric testing
<Riddell> for upgrade notifications
<balloons> ok, Riddell I'll stay in #ubuntu-release.. do let me know when the changes are live
<balloons> I think that's all then folks.. Crunch time! Let's have a good release. And don't forget to celebrate!
<balloons> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Apr 25 14:30:25 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-04-25-14.02.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-04-25-14.02.html
<highvoltage> hi, anyone around for an Edubuntu meeting?
 * stgraber waves
<highvoltage> stgraber: the testing for the new amd64 image is under way
<highvoltage> stgraber: I should be able to post the results with the test cases you mentioned in 30-40 minutes
<mgariepy> i'm here;)
 * jussi is vaguely observing
<stgraber> cool, I just started running an Edubuntu amd64 test here too
<stgraber> so we should have enough coverage for me to sign off that build and be back to ready-to-release
<stgraber> I did some shuffling around of services on my server for the release and I'm mirroring edubuntu + kubuntu, I'll also be seeding the Edubuntu images from another box to ensure we don't get into the same bandwidth issues as last year
<stgraber> and weblive is currently busy rebuilding, hoping to have it all working nicely at some point tonight
<highvoltage> I'll seed a little from home and work too, I guess having another few mbps of seeding would help for the first few hours
<highvoltage> I'd like to start discussing ideas for 12.10 as well as soon as 12.04 is out. I'll post some things I've been thinking about to the mailing list
<highvoltage> (perhaps that will motivate others to do so too :) )
<highvoltage> stgraber: hmm, I seem hit by the bug where when I choose eth0 in ltsp-live, it jumps back to eth1
<stgraber> highvoltage: make sure not to seed for more than 40GB from home or we'll hit the monthly quota...
<highvoltage> stgraber: oh right, I guess I won't do that then :)
<stgraber> running a Chinese Edubuntu OEM install with LTSP, should have the results in 30 min
<highvoltage> my french session is completely messed up... I'll retry on physical hardware...
<stgraber> highvoltage: ok :)
<stgraber> highvoltage: the chinese live session looks good here
<stgraber> testing LTSP live quickly
<stgraber> can't reproduce your drop-down bug
<highvoltage> well, I guess we'll just continue testing for now, anything else for edubuntu meeting or shall we go back to #edubuntu?
<highvoltage> ok then, adjourned! :)
<MrChrisDruif> gilir; meeting?
<gilir> yes yes :)
<gilir> #startmeeting Lubuntu Team Meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Wed Apr 25 20:01:52 2012 UTC.  The chair is gilir. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Lubuntu Team Meeting Meeting | Current topic:
<gilir> hi :)
<kanliot> sup
<Yorvyk> o/
<gilir> Agenda is still at the same place : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/IRC%20Meetings/Agenda
<MrChrisDruif> \o
<gilir> and this week, special focus on the last stuff to do before the release
<cariboo907> join #U+1
<gilir> no action from the last meeting
<gilir> let's move to the first topic
<gilir> #topic kanliot - Weekly report - Update from QA meeting and team
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Lubuntu Team Meeting Meeting | Current topic:  kanliot - Weekly report - Update from QA meeting and team
<kanliot> hi
<kanliot> we still should be testing
<kanliot> also balloons asked for more testers for amd64 mac
<kanliot> and also wubi testers
<kanliot> end of report
<kanliot> to clarify: we still shoudl be testing means they are still releaseing ISOs
<gilir> thanks kanliot, if the tests are specific to lubuntu or more generic ?
<kanliot> i donno
<MrChrisDruif> I think balloons requested for Ubuntu amd64 and wubi
<MrChrisDruif> But wubi wasn't well tested for Lubuntu as well
<kanliot> thanks chrisw
<gilir> MrChrisDruif, as far as I know, it was tested at least once
<MrChrisDruif> gilir; true, Lance did
<gilir> well, it's better than nothing :)
<MrChrisDruif> Indeed
<gilir> ok, philiw also told me ISOs was good to go
<gilir> unless we discover a big problem in the last tests, it should be ok now
<gilir> kanliot, let me know if there is an emerengy tonight
<kanliot> not going to disagree with you but they are still producing more ISOs
<kanliot> k will do
<gilir> ok, thanks kanliot, moving to next topic
<gilir> #topic kanliot - Weekly report - Update from Comms team
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Lubuntu Team Meeting Meeting | Current topic:  kanliot - Weekly report - Update from Comms team
<kanliot> nothing to report
<kanliot> we resolved some code of curious origin that ended up on the website
<kanliot> that was all on the mailing list
<kanliot> end of report
<gilir> ok thanks kanliot
<gilir> #topic gilir - Weekly report - Update from Devs teams
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Lubuntu Team Meeting Meeting | Current topic:  gilir - Weekly report - Update from Devs teams
<gilir> still preparing the work items for 12.10
<gilir> it should be more active next week, after the release :)
<MrChrisDruif> It does?>
<gilir> any questions ?
<gilir> MrChrisDruif, I don't like to prepare stuff for the next release, when the previous one is still not out :)
<MrChrisDruif> True
<MrChrisDruif> ...for devs ;-)
<gilir> :)
<gilir> no more question, so moving to the next topic
<gilir> #topic MrChrisDruif - Weekly report - Update from Docs team
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Lubuntu Team Meeting Meeting | Current topic:  MrChrisDruif - Weekly report - Update from Docs team
<MrChrisDruif> Wiki should be ready for release. Only need to comment out the 12.04 specific stuff to "release"
<gilir> great ! :)
<gilir> are people from the wiki will be available tomorrow to update the links ?
<kanliot> what time will that be?
<MrChrisDruif> I'm "available" till about noon
<gilir> kanliot, it depends on the availability of the ISOs
<kanliot> k
<MrChrisDruif> And remember "everyone" can edit the wiki pages, it is almost only uncommenting lines
<MrChrisDruif> Not release specific: I also want to add a big warning block above the header on [WIKI] for beginner to let them know more prominently that that is the team area and redirect them to [HELP]
<MrChrisDruif> Any objections?
<MrChrisDruif> According to the comms team it's not clear how to come to help.ubuntu.com/community/Lubuntu/HelpDocumentation so that is the reasoning behind it
<Yorvyk> Don't understand why this is needed
<gilir> MrChrisDruif, is the link to Documentation & Help is not enough ?
<MrChrisDruif> According to the people who know how beginners think, it's not
<MrChrisDruif> It's all readable in the wiki-docs mailing archive
<MrChrisDruif> kanliot; you want to add to this?
<kanliot> no need to
<kanliot> good
<MrChrisDruif> Nothing else to report.
<gilir> MrChrisDruif, could you send me the list of pages to update at release time ?
<MrChrisDruif> #action MrChrisDruif Send gilir list with pages to update for release
<meetingology> ACTION: MrChrisDruif Send gilir list with pages to update for release
<gilir> I'll try to be available tomorrow to do the annoucement and to edit of the pages
<MrChrisDruif> Sure ^_^
<gilir> thanks :)
<balloons> hey guys :-)
<gilir> but don't wait next week to do it ;)
<MrChrisDruif> No? ^_^
<kanliot> :)
<MrChrisDruif> I'll have a spot to send it Sunday, alright with you gilir ?
<MrChrisDruif> ;-)
<gilir> don't play with my actual zen attitude ;)
<gilir> any questions for the documentation ?
<gilir> ok thanks MrChrisDruif :)
<MrChrisDruif> Well the usual about known bugs and which should be on the release notes? Are there workarounds that should be on FAQ?
<gilir> it's next topic ;)
<MrChrisDruif> I know
<gilir> #topic Yorvyk - Decide which problems (if any) should be in Known Issues section of Release Notes
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Lubuntu Team Meeting Meeting | Current topic:  Yorvyk - Decide which problems (if any) should be in Known Issues section of Release Notes
<gilir> I already added the bug about gnome-mplayer and lxkeymap
<gilir> Yorvyk, do you have other bugs in mind ?
<Yorvyk> Where are the release notes?  I can't find them now
<gilir> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PrecisePangolin/ReleaseNotes/Lubuntu
<gilir> anyone have comments about them ?
<Yorvyk> Isn't the 64 bit aptitude problem resolved
<MrChrisDruif> Ah, I started editing them...then my connection timed-out again. I'll do it again later tonight
<gilir> Yorvyk, I think the common release notes section is not updated yet
<tumbleweed> Yorvyk: AFAIK it's better, but my no means perfect
<Yorvyk> OK
<Yorvyk> That was the only one that I'd seen any change on
<Yorvyk> Everything else looks OK
<gilir> MrChrisDruif, what do you want to add ?
<MrChrisDruif> Just rewording some stuff, nothing to add
<gilir> ok
<gilir> if nobody have comments, we can remove the "TBA" items and keep it like this
<gilir> except for corrections of style / typo / bad english ... :)
<gilir> #topic Any Other Business
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Lubuntu Team Meeting Meeting | Current topic:  Any Other Business
<gilir> anything to add ?
<Yorvyk> Lets hope everything goes smoothly tomorrow :)
<gilir> ok, thanks, let's get some sleep before tomorrow :)
<gilir> Yorvyk, yes :)
<gilir> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Apr 25 20:41:47 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-04-25-20.01.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-04-25-20.01.html
<MrChrisDruif> Thanks gilir ^_^
<Yorvyk> Are we continuing these meetings or having time of over UDS
<gilir> Yorvyk, I'll prefer to stop them untill UDS
<gilir> Yorvyk, maybe you can ask on the mailing list ?
<Yorvyk> OK
<gilir> thanks :)
<Yorvyk> OK bye all!
<s-fox> 9 minutes until the forum council meeting
<s-fox> ping coffeecat cariboo907 Iowan oldos2er
<Iowan> o/
<coffeecat> o/
<oldos2er> yo
<s-fox> jacob moergaes
<moergaes> yo-yo
<s-fox> :)
<jacob> oi
<cariboo907> I'm here, had to go refill my coffee cup
<s-fox> i am giving bodhi a few minutes, if he doesn't show in the next few minutes i am going to start the meeting without him
<Iowan> I think I have login messed up again, but this jaunty machine is due upgrade anyway...
<jacob> jaunty? is that not EOL?
<s-fox> And bodhi_zazen makes 6 FC members :)
<bodhi_zazen> meeting start yet ?
<Iowan> that's why it's due upgrade
<s-fox> No, i was giving you a minute
<s-fox> lol
<s-fox> cariboo907 are you back from coffee?
<cariboo907> yup
<s-fox> Okay, show time
<s-fox> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Wed Apr 25 23:02:08 2012 UTC.  The chair is s-fox. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<bodhi_zazen> OK, anyone want to drive ?
<Iowan> I
<s-fox> [TOPIC] FC meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: FC meeting
<bodhi_zazen> [link]https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ForumCouncilAgenda
<bodhi_zazen> I would like to make a few opening comments if I may ,promise they will be short =)
<s-fox> Okay bodhi_zazen, go
<bodhi_zazen> First, thank you all for coming
<bodhi_zazen> we are trying to get input from across the community
<bodhi_zazen> during the month, please use FH&F , #ubuntuforums, etc to discuss issues with staff / FC
<bodhi_zazen> these meeting are (hopefully) for decisions, with minimal discussion, discussion should have already taken place
<bodhi_zazen>  /end
<s-fox> Well said and very good point made.
<s-fox> Okay, first item on the agenda...
<s-fox> [TOPIC] Archiving forums
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Archiving forums
 * bodhi_zazen hides
<bodhi_zazen> I think we forgot to discuss this topic
<s-fox> I know ;)
<jacob> are this and the second topic the same?
<bodhi_zazen> We should make a proposal to the community, set some guidelines
<bodhi_zazen> no jacob
<s-fox> But the idea to archive out of date information is solid.
<s-fox> I agree on getting input from the wider community, just like we did for the tutorials
<bodhi_zazen> I suggest we make a concerted effort to discuss the topic over the next month
<s-fox> That sounds reasonable to me.
<s-fox> [VOTE] Make concerted effort to discuss archiving out of date information with wider community
<meetingology> Please vote on: Make concerted effort to discuss archiving out of date information with wider community
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<bodhi_zazen> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from bodhi_zazen
<cariboo907> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from cariboo907
<s-fox> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from s-fox
<coffeecat> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from coffeecat
<Iowan> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from Iowan
<jacob> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from jacob
<s-fox> [ENDVOTE]
<meetingology> Voting ended on: Make concerted effort to discuss archiving out of date information with wider community
<meetingology> Votes for:6 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<s-fox> Bad jacob
<s-fox> ;)
<jacob> :D
<s-fox> Okay, next item
<s-fox> [TOPIC] Close tutorial and tips and move to wiki
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Close tutorial and tips and move to wiki
<bodhi_zazen> IMO closing T& T has gone fantastic
<s-fox> This appears to have started and the ball is rolling
<bodhi_zazen> I think there have been some (appropriate) concerns
<bodhi_zazen> but ...
<bodhi_zazen> we have connected people from forums to wiki and have interest from askubuntu
<s-fox> What are the main concerns ?
<bodhi_zazen> pixie has done outstanding work
<bodhi_zazen> people do not like change ;)
<s-fox> forestpiskie has been amazing
<bodhi_zazen> we need to encourage these efforts, and more important
<bodhi_zazen> engage the community to use and contribute to the wiki
<jacob> I think the only real concern was the migration of tutorials, which seems to be going along smoothly
<s-fox> I seem to recall some sort of script helping with the markup
<bodhi_zazen> There was the concern if we closed the T&T, no one would contribute to wiki, and we would loose a valuable community asset
<bodhi_zazen> but, honestly, group effort on documentation is easier and it did not take long for the advantages to become obvious
<bodhi_zazen> I encourage all staff to encourage wiki as much as possible
<jacob> I think the problem was the wiki was not very well advertised on the forums. if a link for T&T is made to the forums somehow, i think it'll be less of an issue.
<s-fox> By the looks of things it has evolved, and T&T section has been used for supporting specific wiki pages
<jacob> s/forums/wiki/
<bodhi_zazen> If people complain the page is out of date -> help encourage the community to maintain
<bodhi_zazen> +1 Jac
<bodhi_zazen> that is the plan s-fox , wiki is for documentation , T&T is to discuss documentation
<cariboo907> there is an editor for editing wiki pages in the repositories called editmoin
<bodhi_zazen> should we add foo or bar to rootsudo ?
<s-fox> Okay, I am not really sure anything to vote on here. But well done to all and lets continue to ease the transtition
<bodhi_zazen> discussion -> change
<bodhi_zazen> no vote needed, just an update
<bodhi_zazen> and ask staff to promote the effort
<s-fox> [ACTION] Staff to promote wiki effort
<meetingology> ACTION: Staff to promote wiki effort
<s-fox> :)
<bodhi_zazen> If we get 10 people to edit 1 wiki page / month -> wiki will improve
<bodhi_zazen> Needs to be a sustained effort, not a burn out fast effort
<s-fox> Yes agreed
<s-fox> Lets move on
<s-fox> [TOPIC] Add new staff
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Add new staff
<bodhi_zazen> OK, I'll say it
<bodhi_zazen> I think we should add 2-4 staff
<bodhi_zazen> I would like to try some sort of volunteer -> short list -> vote
<s-fox> I think we are coping, but we could do we a few more staffers. With a focus on asia / oz timezones
<bodhi_zazen> coping, yes, but too closed, IMO
<cariboo907> even western north america, as at times I'm the only there
<s-fox> Anyone got any comments ?
<bodhi_zazen> we need to engage the community, not just "cope"
<Iowan> How much is need, versus rewarding active participants?
<oldos2er> bodhi_zazen: can you explain "too closed"?
<cariboo907> I really don't like the idea of volunteers
<bodhi_zazen> The staff is viewed as too closed, a select group selected by favoritism or cronyism
<oldos2er> bodhi_zazen: thank you
<bodhi_zazen> people come and go, staff fall inactive, we need to train the next group
<jacob> i'm not sure about volunteers either, but it might be worth a try. an experiment.
<coffeecat> Volunteering was discussed in SCC. There were several objections.
<bodhi_zazen> Post criteria -> ask UFM to volunteer or nominate other UFM -> review candiates -> UFM vote
<bodhi_zazen> I think the major objection was that volunteers would not be reviewed
<s-fox> OMG - The entire forum council is here
<jacob> was the criteria of requiring an active ubuntu membership to be one of them?
<s-fox> Hey overdrank
<cariboo907> I could see UFM's nominate members for staff positions
<s-fox> oh wait, no ai
<overdrank> Hello all
<bodhi_zazen> nomination works for me
<bodhi_zazen> We need to "test the waters"
<cariboo907> +1 to that
<bodhi_zazen> If we want to continue with the current staff selection, that is fine
<s-fox> Okay, well we are only looking to add a couple new staff so it is a  good test to iron out the process
<bodhi_zazen> We need to be able to say , we tried .... and had ... problem ;)
<bodhi_zazen> Or , perhaps it will be better
<jacob> it's worth a shot if nothing else
<s-fox> [VOTE] Get UFM to nominate other UFM for staff poitions
<meetingology> Please vote on: Get UFM to nominate other UFM for staff poitions
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<s-fox> positions
<cariboo907> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from cariboo907
<bodhi_zazen> and perhaps encourage UFM -> join u+1 or wiki team
<s-fox>  positions
<bodhi_zazen> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from bodhi_zazen
<s-fox> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from s-fox
<Iowan> +1
<overdrank> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from Iowan
<meetingology> +1 received from overdrank
<s-fox> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from s-fox
<s-fox> Gah
<coffeecat> CLarification please.
<bodhi_zazen> I am suggesting we need to encourage the Ubuntu forums community to participate and contribute beyond the forums
<s-fox> Silly tablet scroll issue  >.<
<bodhi_zazen> Forums is the entry, identify the good, the bad, and the ugly -> get them involved =)
<bodhi_zazen> go coffeecat
<coffeecat> I haven't voted yet. "UFM to nominate OTHER UFM"??
<bodhi_zazen> Ubuntu Forums Members
<cariboo907> Ubuntu forum members UFM
<s-fox> coffeecat for staff positions
<coffeecat> No - I know what UFM are . OTHER??
<bodhi_zazen> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Forums/Membership
<cariboo907> UFM nominate from the list of UFMs
<Iowan> forum members nominate other forum members
<s-fox> for staff positions
<coffeecat> Yes - OTHER - not themselves?
<s-fox> for staff positions
<bodhi_zazen> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-forum-members
<s-fox> no, not themselves
<coffeecat> s-fox, thanks
<bodhi_zazen> non ufm == ubuntu community
<bodhi_zazen> ubuntu forums community
<s-fox> coffeecat what is your vote ?
<coffeecat> That's not what I was asking. s.fox has clarified.
<Iowan> (abstain is allowed)
<coffeecat> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from coffeecat
<s-fox> [ENDVOTE]
<meetingology> Voting ended on: Get UFM to nominate other UFM for staff poitions
<meetingology> Votes for:6 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<bodhi_zazen> obstain = 0
<bodhi_zazen> +1/0/-1
<s-fox> Okay, next item....
<s-fox> [TOPIC] Forums upgrade
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Forums upgrade
<s-fox> I have an update on this
<Iowan> yea!
<jacob> :)
<cariboo907> SSO is supposed to be fixed today
<jacob> good to hear!
<s-fox> castro informs me that the drives have been sourced but the SSO (which was fixed) is now broken again
<s-fox> He was going to get back to me with an eta on the fix
<s-fox> I know this is bad news, but it is still an update.
<s-fox> [ACTION] Poke jcastro for news on the ETA on fix
<meetingology> ACTION: Poke jcastro for news on the ETA on fix
<s-fox> :)
<s-fox> Any comments before moving on?
<s-fox> I guess now
<s-fox> not
<s-fox> Next topic
<s-fox> [TOPIC] Community building
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Community building
<bodhi_zazen> community building is going very well, but will never going to be on autopilot
<bodhi_zazen> As staff, you are leaders
<bodhi_zazen> I encourage you to get involved, there are tons of projects
<bodhi_zazen> you do not have to to them, just know they are there
<bodhi_zazen> Example - xubuntu could have used some help this release ...
<bodhi_zazen> U+1
<bodhi_zazen> wiki efforts
<bodhi_zazen> join #ubuntuforums and #ubuntu-community-team
<bodhi_zazen> If you like forums, that is fine
<bodhi_zazen> be active in FH&F
<cariboo907> I don't know if this comes under community building, but kansasnoob has been diagnosed with dementia
<bodhi_zazen> be [s]active[/s] friendly in cafÃ© and community games
<bodhi_zazen> If you are too busy to get active, fine, the would fall under need more staff ;)
 * jacob shuffles about
<bodhi_zazen> Just be aware , we are reaching critical mass where we really can integrate with, and contribute to the Ubuntu community
<s-fox> Starting  this month I am going to be writing a monthly news update kind of thing for the wider community to view on planet ubuntu
<jacob> but agreed, and I know I sound hypocritical, but being active on staff is what helps keep a community going
<bodhi_zazen> http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars/fridge/
<bodhi_zazen> You do not need a google account to view the fridge calander
<s-fox> bodhi_zazen ?
<s-fox> Oh I see, never mind
<bodhi_zazen> fridge calendar = major community discussions / meetings
 * s-fox nods
<bodhi_zazen> Otherwise, see my update to the staff in scc
<bodhi_zazen> Staff only : http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1953124
<s-fox> Oh, incase you missed it I added links to the forum irc channel in the quicklinks bar in the site menu
<bodhi_zazen> I know, IRC is new, even frightening at first, but, after a while you will be in 10 channels
<overdrank> lol
<bodhi_zazen> http://wordofgreen.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/I-love-when-a-plan-comes-together.gif
<Iowan> (I struggle with 2)
<jacob> and idle in 9 ;)
<cariboo907> I can manage 5 :)
<bodhi_zazen> Don't worry, everyone is like that
<bodhi_zazen> if you need help ask
<s-fox> Really? :)
<bodhi_zazen> If you irc via issri in screen 24/7 - seek a therapist
<oldos2er> lol
<bodhi_zazen> irssi , lol
<Iowan> (via IRS?)
<s-fox> No
<jacob> bodhi_zazen: hah. i don't need a therapist, i use weechat.
<s-fox> :)
<Iowan> (IRC)
<s-fox> I would like to move on....
<oldos2er> bodhi_zazen: i resemble that remark  :)
 * bodhi_zazen pleads the 5th
<s-fox> [TOPIC] Team  Reports
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Team  Reports
<s-fox> Hello ubottu
<s-fox> uRock
 * bodhi_zazen hides 10 fedora channels, gentoo, and linux-libre channels, not to mention #ubuntu-montana and a few -team, oh and lxc ...
<uRock> hello s-fox
<bodhi_zazen> Team reports are greatly appreciated by the community, and the look nice
<bodhi_zazen> Only thing is, make sure they get on the community monthly report
<Iowan> What did I mess up last month? ;)
<s-fox> Well done to everyone for getting them back on track
<s-fox> Few minor issues with the ones that had been done
<bodhi_zazen> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TeamReports/April2012
<s-fox> 1 - Missing items that were discussed in the meetings
<bodhi_zazen> We should be on the community team report automatically
<bodhi_zazen> We are right under the Community Council
<s-fox> 2 - Naming convention is very important, other pages link to CURRENT MONTH
<s-fox> ^ bodhi_zazen
<Iowan> :( Thought I verified that it was there...
<bodhi_zazen> It's OK Iowan , this is why I am trying to get FC members up to speed =)
<bodhi_zazen> Needs to be there by end of month
<Iowan> my tranny keeps slipping...
<s-fox> Iowan Don't be sad, something had to be said or nothing is learned =)
<bodhi_zazen> I never can recall the syntax, so, add comments to the templates on what to do
<bodhi_zazen> Comments start with two ##
<bodhi_zazen> Who is willing to try the monthly report this month ?
<bodhi_zazen> Heck, two of you could learn together
<s-fox> bodhi_zazen i am going to do division of labour at the end
 * cariboo907 will
<bodhi_zazen> OK, sorry s-fox
<s-fox> np
<bodhi_zazen> next topic ?
<s-fox> yep
<bodhi_zazen> Leave the agenda in place, agenda items = bullet points for team report
<s-fox> [TOPIC] Firefox / Ubiquity forum links
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Firefox / Ubiquity forum links
<s-fox> I have an update on ubiquity side of things
<bodhi_zazen> This one is short, if you want them fixed, file a bug report on LP with code
<bodhi_zazen> we missed 12.04, but if we submit decent code it will be considered for 12.10
<bodhi_zazen> then accept the decision of the community who reviews the request
<bodhi_zazen> No more WWIII
<bodhi_zazen> =)
<s-fox> From what I gather the slide was rewritten and askubuntu was removed. That wasn't what we were after.  I have written a html slide and sent code to bodsda. i need to poke him again
<bodhi_zazen> \o/
<bodhi_zazen> You have about 3 months s-fox
<s-fox> philinux was pushing the firefox bookmarks, and has posted a revised bookmark file
<s-fox> I recall he was having issues getting the maintainers to look at the revised file, which is a bit sad.
<bodhi_zazen> Aye, but after the 12.04 deadline, otherwise bookmarks looked good
<uRock> Having UF in the bookmarks would be great
<bodhi_zazen> Probably need to submit for 12.10
<bodhi_zazen> we were late, and to be honest, they have better things to do with the impending release of 12.04
<bodhi_zazen> target 12.10 release
<s-fox> Okay, that is me done on updates.  Perhaps we should ask philinux for an update
<bodhi_zazen> PM ?
<s-fox> Yep :)
<bodhi_zazen> Any other comments ?
<cariboo907> isn't he still off  fishing in Scotland?
<s-fox> Oh yes, that is right
<s-fox> [ACTION] PM philinux for firefox update
<meetingology> ACTION: PM philinux for firefox update
<s-fox> [TOPIC] Staff selection process
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Staff selection process
<bodhi_zazen> We discussed staff selection, entire staff feels candidates need to be reviewed, and when we have a short list of UFM -> UFM vote , honestly current staff is the largest single voting block, so it is not the compete loss of control we might fear
<s-fox> I think we covered this earlier with adding new staff
<bodhi_zazen> I have no further comment
<s-fox> Next topic?
<bodhi_zazen> It has been extensively discussed b4 now
<bodhi_zazen> action on this one s-fox
<bodhi_zazen> vote ?
<s-fox> We already voted on it
<bodhi_zazen> OK with me , any objections ?
<s-fox> [TOPIC] Forums team
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Forums team
<bodhi_zazen> This one is not my topic (surprise)
<s-fox> lol
<bodhi_zazen> Anyone want to summarize this ?
<bodhi_zazen> I think we should kill off the teams and use #ubuntuforums
<jacob> I think we should nuke the entire collection of forums teams, honestly. Even if it means re-making some that are desired to keep.
<bodhi_zazen> If enough people want to start some project, have them make a proposal
<jacob> aye
<jacob> other than that, my thoughts are in the thread
<Iowan> probably the cleanest way
<s-fox> Spring cleaning on old teams
<jacob> i don't believe any of the six have seen any activity
<s-fox> Anyone got anything to add before the vote?
<jacob> also the forums attached to some of those
<bodhi_zazen> Only one is "active", and I use the term loosly
<Iowan> which one BT?
<jacob> T&T has a T&TT forum that is dead
<bodhi_zazen> yea
<s-fox> The BT bodhi_zazend ?
<jacob> http://ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=348 & subforum it seems
<bodhi_zazen> zmg, it's alive
<s-fox> Okay, vote time
<bodhi_zazen> I asked duanedesign to lead the BT
<s-fox> [VOTE] Remove old unused forum teams
<meetingology> Please vote on: Remove old unused forum teams
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<bodhi_zazen> It is sort of detached from forums at the moment
<bodhi_zazen> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from bodhi_zazen
<s-fox> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from s-fox
<overdrank> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from overdrank
<coffeecat> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from coffeecat
<cariboo907> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from cariboo907
<Iowan> +1 (all teams?)
<meetingology> +1 (all teams?) received from Iowan
<s-fox> lol
<jacob> hah.
<s-fox> just the unused ones Iowan
<bodhi_zazen> same thing s-fox
<s-fox> hah
<overdrank> doh
<s-fox> [ENDVOTE]
<meetingology> Voting ended on: Remove old unused forum teams
<meetingology> Votes for:6 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<bodhi_zazen> \o/
<Iowan> Do we need to post a "warning" that they are going?
<s-fox> I think it would be polite to email the team leader if we close the subforums
<overdrank> \~/
<jacob> Iowan: i doubt anyone would notice without one for quite some time. :P
<bodhi_zazen> No one reads the [s]warnings[/s] stickies Iowan
<uRock> \m/
<s-fox> Direct email bodhi_zazen
<jacob> s-fox: there's only one subforum that I can see
<overdrank> My apologies but I have to excuse myself
<bodhi_zazen> I'm sorry , that email has been disconnected ...
<jacob> well scraatch that
<s-fox> See you overdrank
<bodhi_zazen> thanks overd
<s-fox> thanks for coming
<s-fox> bodhi_zazen we should at least try
<bodhi_zazen> next topic, coming up on the 60 minute mark
<s-fox> bounce or not
<bodhi_zazen> OK s-fox
<s-fox> [TOPIC] Fix a meeting time
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Fix a meeting time
<s-fox> I think the only issue with this time is AI :/
<bodhi_zazen> This time seems to work, 3rd Wed of the month ?
#ubuntu-meeting 2012-04-26
<cariboo907> works for me :)
<s-fox> Works for me
<Iowan> Good here...
<uRock> +1
<Iowan> Time= now +/- 3 hours
<s-fox> Again, my worry is for AI
<coffeecat> Agreed - this will always be bad for AI
<jacob> Why not cycle times every meeting? you'll get a different selection of FC every time
<bodhi_zazen> because, no time that is good for AI works for anyone else
<jacob> that's... tricky.
<s-fox> I think we should discuss this further, perhaps vote later
<bodhi_zazen> so when we look at avability, say there are 4,5,or 6 members available as time foo and bar and another_time
<bodhi_zazen> It is always AI missing
<bodhi_zazen> and when you look at AI times, only 1 or 2 members at most are available
<bodhi_zazen> so , no matter what, we are going to need to learn to communicate outside of FC meetings
<s-fox> It is difficult
<s-fox> +1 to communication
<s-fox> Okay, next topic
<s-fox> [TOPIC] New UFM
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: New UFM
<s-fox> Only one this month, and he is already an ubuntu member....
<s-fox> which i still don't understand the point but anyway
<bodhi_zazen> Is there anyone who does not know cprofitt ?
<Iowan> I'm confused - do I also need to re-apply via forums?
<bodhi_zazen> Iowan: because we have 2 categories
<jacob> Iowan: I think he just want to have a more formal forum membership.
<bodhi_zazen> Ubuntu members -> they all get the little user benefits
<bodhi_zazen> and Ubuntu Forums Members
<bodhi_zazen> Only Ubuntu members active on the forums (UFM) are eligible for staff and to vote
<s-fox> Does this mean I need to reapply?
<bodhi_zazen> so, if they go or have gone through an alternate membership board, they need to apply for UFM
<s-fox> I did not get my membership for forums activites
<bodhi_zazen> I would say so s-fox
<Iowan> ditto
<cariboo907> Does cprofitt just want to become a UFM so that he is eligible to become a staff member
<bodhi_zazen> That is the best way to identify UM active on the fourms
<bodhi_zazen> no cariboo907 , he wants to  vote for staff
<bodhi_zazen> I do not think it is the general policy of Ubuntu Team, nor do I think we want, all UM to vote for ubuntu forums elections
<s-fox> Okay, that I understand
<bodhi_zazen> As an ubuntu member, if you are not active on IRC, you do not get asked to vote for ubuntu irc board
<bodhi_zazen> etc
<bodhi_zazen> I anticipate a small # of these applications
<s-fox> [VOTE] cprofitt for UFM
<meetingology> Please vote on: cprofitt for UFM
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<bodhi_zazen> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from bodhi_zazen
<cariboo907> +0
<meetingology> +0 received from cariboo907
<coffeecat> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from coffeecat
<s-fox> +11
<meetingology> +11 received from s-fox
<Iowan> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from Iowan
<s-fox> Nice vote by me ;)
<Iowan> (vote -10 to balance?)
<s-fox> [ENDVOTE]
<meetingology> Voting ended on: cprofitt for UFM
<meetingology> Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:1
<meetingology> Motion carried
<s-fox> mhall119 ping ?
<pleia2> good to see another CC member getting more involved with forums (we miss technoviking!)
<bodhi_zazen> 'lo pleia2
<pleia2> sorry, don't mean to interrupt meeting :)
<bodhi_zazen> no bother, glad to have you
<s-fox> mhall119 added an item to the agenda wanting to add a programming related forum to the main page rather than under the programming section.  i am not sure on the reasoning and generally think it is unorganised if we do that
<mhall119> s-fox: here
<s-fox> Hey mhall119 :)
<mhall119> mostly
<bodhi_zazen> I say, add the forum, we can remove it if it is unused
<s-fox> [TOPIC] Add top level suport forum for ubuntu app developers
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Add top level suport forum for ubuntu app developers
<s-fox> mhall119 can you explain your idea please?
<mhall119> so one of our big goals in the 12.10 cycle is to build a community of independent application developers
<mhall119> and one thing that almost every other developer.*.* website offers app devs is a forum
<bodhi_zazen> mhall119: can this be a subsection of the ubuntu+1 forums ?
<duanedesign> o/
<mhall119> not just for technical/programming support either
<mhall119> bodhi_zazen: no, it'll be a permanent fixture
<bodhi_zazen> duanedesign: if it on topic, speak, otherwise wait for open floor
<mhall119> so questions and support will range from programming to packaging, pricing, promotion, collaboration, etc
<bodhi_zazen> Where would you propose we add it ?
<bodhi_zazen> http://ubuntuforums.org/index.php
<bodhi_zazen> http://ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=310
<mhall119> bodhi_zazen: I was hoping to get it in the "Main Support Categories" area
<mhall119> as top-level as possible
<mhall119> we'll link to it from developer.ubuntu.com/community
<bodhi_zazen> I have someone who wants to learn to package the linux-libre kernel into a ppa (they make .deb now, but want to learn better)
<mhall119> as one of the official places for app developers to get support and meet other app developers
<bodhi_zazen> would they use the forums for that sort of activity ?
<bodhi_zazen> learning to package ?
<jacob> I think it sounds like a reasonable idea; it could attract a healthy developer community, and is no worse than any of the partner forums under main support ;)
<mhall119> bodhi_zazen: no, that's ubuntu development, not app development
<mhall119> we're targeting people who make, say, Angry Birds, and wants to make a native Ubuntu version
<bodhi_zazen> but programming side ?
<mhall119> they don't care about kernels or debian packaging with lint --pedantic or all that
<s-fox> mhall119 we get people building applications in that section
<bodhi_zazen> what about packaging ?
<mhall119> bodhi_zazen: programming will be part of it, but not all of it
<bodhi_zazen> packaging is a frequent FAQ
<s-fox> +1 bodhi_zazen
<mhall119> it'll also be pricing, promotion, etc
<jacob> makes sense to me, considering the "app" model ubuntu is moving towards. consolidating things might be useful.
<jacob> (as much as i despise the word "app")
<s-fox> Iowan cariboo907 coffeecat thoughts?
<Iowan> Thinking...
<mhall119> I don't really want to send them all over the forums, I'd rather give them one place specifically for them
<cariboo907> I think it's a good idea
<bodhi_zazen> +1 mhall119
<jacob> echo that
<mhall119> just like they expect from other developer portals
<Iowan> Probably worth a try - as mentioned about partner subforums
<Effenberg0x0> o/
<bodhi_zazen> If it is on topic Effenberg0x0 speak up
<s-fox> Effenberg0x0 go :)
<Effenberg0x0> Apps need testers. I see a good opportunity for integration there
<mhall119> oh, for added clarification, this will be mainly targetting people who will be submitting apps through MyApps and the ARB, not to Universe
<jacob> this almost seems to merit an additional section, even. but a single forum would be good to start with.
<bodhi_zazen> My 2c are to make this work as best we can
<coffeecat> I like Effenberg0x0's point.
<Effenberg0x0> QA won't test 3rd parts. Ubuntu+1/U+1 Team can help. Good opportunity for knowledge exchange.
<bodhi_zazen> mhall119: can you or someone help develop the description you envision ?
<bodhi_zazen> http://ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=326
<mhall119> bodhi_zazen: sure, dpm and I can do that
<bodhi_zazen> "The perfect place to post for your Ubuntu support if you are new to Linux."
<bodhi_zazen> We can put it under main for visibility
<s-fox> Okay, lets vote.
<Iowan> Horse before cart: Loco forum mods?
<bodhi_zazen> as it evolved , see if it belongs there or if it should be moved to a development section
<bodhi_zazen> mhall119: yes, any help with moderating this section ?
<mhall119> bodhi_zazen: I'd be happy to, dpm will too I'm sure, and we can get he ARB to help too
<bodhi_zazen> These sorts of discussions can get , err, interesting
<s-fox> [VOTE] App developers forum to be created and placed under main suport categories
<meetingology> Please vote on: App developers forum to be created and placed under main suport categories
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<bodhi_zazen> someone to help set the tone would be great
<cariboo907> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from cariboo907
<bodhi_zazen> staff can help
<bodhi_zazen> +1
<coffeecat> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from bodhi_zazen
<meetingology> +1 received from coffeecat
<Iowan> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from Iowan
<bodhi_zazen> with spam and stuff
<mhall119> bodhi_zazen: there's enough stake holders, I'm sure we can find a good group of mods
<s-fox> +0
<meetingology> +0 received from s-fox
<jacob> implicit plus-one ;)
<bodhi_zazen> I think that would be best
<s-fox> [ENDVOTE]
<meetingology> Voting ended on: App developers forum to be created and placed under main suport categories
<meetingology> Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:1
<meetingology> Motion carried
<mhall119> you guys rock! thanks so much for addressing this so quickly
<s-fox> Okay, mhall119 if you could email  / irc the fc with the description we will do the rest :)
<coffeecat> Before we move on. Something for mhall119  and all to think about...
<mhall119> s-fox: what email?
<s-fox> mhall119 the fc mailing list
<bodhi_zazen> mhall119: for future reference : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ForumCouncil
<mhall119> thanks
<bodhi_zazen> ubuntu-forums-council@lists.ubuntu.com
<coffeecat> mhall119, mentioned "pricing and promotion" With app developers who are new members. Have to give them guidelines so they are not mistaken for spammers.
<s-fox> +1 on spam issue
<Iowan> Pricing always raises a red flag...
<mhall119> coffeecat: yeah, I didn't mean "promote your app on the forums", I meant "ask other app devs what they did for promotion, what work and what didn't, etc"
<bodhi_zazen> As do links to products off ubuntu web pages from members with < 10-15 posts
<coffeecat> mhall119, sure. But some might get it wrong! :)
<s-fox> We should make an announcement to the forum population, otherwise  we are going to get buried in reports
<bodhi_zazen> Part of setting up the forums
<Iowan> sticky in neew forum
<mhall119> s-fox: we will also likely announce it on the developer portal blog
<bodhi_zazen> develop description, post guidelines as a sticky
<s-fox> mhall119 a lot of the forum users are not devs =)
<mhall119> s-fox: right, I was just mentioning it
<bodhi_zazen> Yea, we chased the dev out with pitchforks and torches =)
<s-fox> [ACTION] Sticky in new section outlining post criteria
<meetingology> ACTION: Sticky in new section outlining post criteria
<s-fox> [ACTION] Post in Cafe about new section
<meetingology> ACTION: Post in Cafe about new section
<bodhi_zazen> any other comments ?
<s-fox> [ACTION] Post in PT about new section
<meetingology> ACTION: Post in PT about new section
<s-fox> Nothing from me
<s-fox> Anyone else?
<Iowan> nothing from here
<coffeecat> Nothing more here
<s-fox> [TOPIC] U+1 moving
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: U+1 moving
<mhall119> thanks again, I'll get with dpm tomorrow to write up that description and some guidelines from our side, then you guys can add whatever guidelines you think will be needed
<s-fox> moergaes added this  item
<moergaes> Yes
<s-fox> moergaes you have the floor =)
<moergaes> Thanks.
<moergaes> We have talked somewhat about this in the staff forum
<moergaes> but I would like to hear if we have an agreement / decision.
<moergaes> Ubuntu+1 is different from all other fora
<moergaes> as the purpose is not support, but software development
<moergaes> (particularly testing and bug reporting).
<moergaes> Therefore support request should not go there IMHO.
<moergaes> My suggestion:
<cariboo907> I think the point is moot, as Precise comes out tomorrow, and there will be a new QQ subforum,
<moergaes> This is meant for U+1 in general
<moergaes> not only this cycle.
<s-fox> cariboo907 please wait until moergaes is done. :)
<moergaes> I suggest that all threads in U+1 should serve a purpose regarding software development
<cariboo907> OK :(
<moergaes> else they should be moved (or stay) somewhere else
<moergaes> mostly Absolute Beginner Talk.
<quackers> o/
<moergaes> Comments?
<Iowan> where should U+1 support go?
<Effenberg0x0> o/
<jacob> agreed. but when do we decide to stop moving threads *in* and start moving them *out* into general areas? 2 weeks before release? beta 2?
<s-fox> go Effenberg0x0
<bodhi_zazen> o/
<Effenberg0x0> Mark created Development release USERS (not testers) when he did this: http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/938, which was foralized here: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-p-plusonemaint-priorities
<Effenberg0x0> Therefore, users exist, users need support. And we benefit from converting support requests into new testers.
<uRock> Maybe have two sub-sections, one for devs and another for support?
<jacob> i like that idea uRock
<bodhi_zazen> +1 uRock
<jacob> U+1 forum always seemed a bit cluttered
<bodhi_zazen> u+1 have grown
<cariboo907> We have very few developers in that section, they mainly answer support questions
<bodhi_zazen> quackers: go
<jacob> also, I also think that U+1 support/development should be moved up a little bit. it's quite hidden, and many threads moved there are made by those who didn't see it
<quackers> where should testers of the current development release ask for support, if not in U + 1
<quackers> ?
<bodhi_zazen> could move it under general ...
<quackers> isn't that thinning an already limited supply of help?
<bodhi_zazen> Let me try to answer that quackers , if I may ...
<s-fox> we'd be flooded with reports if they do not have their own section
<bodhi_zazen> There are no absolutes, people (including staff) need to use judgement
<Effenberg0x0> This release (QQ) is about quality. We need more common users testing the Development Release. I ask you to consider that cautiously in any change we do to the current structure.
<bodhi_zazen> Lets say a user needs support on u+1 ...
<bodhi_zazen> Is is a question that is very general - how do I install software ?
<bodhi_zazen> If it is general enough , leave it in ABT or GH or wherever
<quackers> not usually
<bodhi_zazen> Or is it specific to U+1
<bodhi_zazen> In that case, it needs to be moved
<jacob> doesn't that really echo current policy? :)
<quackers> often specific imo
<bodhi_zazen> This last release cycle was NOT typical
<bodhi_zazen> it was MUCH MUCH more stable
<bodhi_zazen> wait until X fails on u+1
<cariboo907> We usually make some suggestions, and help the new user along, as long as the question is concerneing the development release
<bodhi_zazen> so u+1 specific support / development -> u+1
<bodhi_zazen> there will always be judgement involved
<cariboo907> that's my thought
<quackers> for me, yes
<bodhi_zazen> Does the support question pertain to development , development specific problems ?
<quackers> itconcentrates users
<s-fox> Okay, I see a few people in agreement on an idea. Time to vote
<bodhi_zazen> Or is it general enough to remain in ABT ?
<bodhi_zazen> If in doubt -> move to u+1
<coffeecat> One problem is the "naive" user who has no intention of testing, install an alpha or beta without knowing what they are and needs help. It dilutes the U+1 forum.
<bodhi_zazen> until a stable beta ?
<moergaes> coffeecat: Exactly
<bodhi_zazen> +1 coffeecat
<moergaes> that was my point.
<bodhi_zazen> But again, this release cycle was more stable then average
<s-fox> [VOTE]  u+1 specific then move, if question is generic then leave in General / ABT
<meetingology> Please vote on: u+1 specific then move, if question is generic then leave in General / ABT
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<bodhi_zazen> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from bodhi_zazen
<cariboo907> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from cariboo907
<coffeecat> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from coffeecat
<s-fox> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from s-fox
<s-fox> Iowan ?
<Iowan> +0
<meetingology> +0 received from Iowan
<s-fox> [ENDVOTE]
<meetingology> Voting ended on: u+1 specific then move, if question is generic then leave in General / ABT
<meetingology> Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:1
<meetingology> Motion carried
<s-fox> Great =)
<bodhi_zazen> Open floor ?
<Effenberg0x0> o/ May I? (Two quick remarks, no need to discuss it in-depth now, just a proposal for you to consider)
<moergaes> Thanks!
<s-fox> Last item
<bodhi_zazen> o/
<s-fox> bodhi_zazen after the division of labour you will have the floor
<cariboo907> WHo is going to move the Precise sub-forum to the archove
<Effenberg0x0> Oops
<bodhi_zazen> naw, give it to Effenberg0x0 first
<cariboo907> archive
<s-fox> bodhi_zazen okay
<cariboo907> +1
<s-fox> [TOPIC] Division of labour
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Division of labour
<bodhi_zazen> you all see my tl;dr every day
<s-fox> Who wants the team report this month?
<Iowan> (pass)
 * cariboo907 will
<s-fox> [ACTION] Team report -> s-fox & cariboo907
<meetingology> ACTION: Team report -> s-fox & cariboo907
<bodhi_zazen> cariboo907: volunteered earlier
<s-fox> who wants the admin thread ?
<Iowan> I'll help!
<bodhi_zazen> o/
<s-fox> [ACTION] Admin thread -> Iowan
<meetingology> ACTION: Admin thread -> Iowan
<bodhi_zazen> doh -
<s-fox> Who wants to swat trolls on the mailing list?
<bodhi_zazen> o/
<bodhi_zazen> and spam
 * coffeecat is game for some troll swatting.
<s-fox> [ACTION] Mailing list -> bodhi_zazen
<coffeecat> And spam!!!!
<meetingology> ACTION: Mailing list -> bodhi_zazen
<bodhi_zazen> unless you have a better task for me oh great one (s-fox)
<s-fox> [ACTION] s-fox to mail coffeecat some spam
<meetingology> ACTION: s-fox to mail coffeecat some spam
<coffeecat> lol
<s-fox> I think that is it
<s-fox> Effenberg0x0 has the floor
<Iowan> Ban reversal candidates?
<bodhi_zazen> blog.bodhizazen.net | coffeecat@ubuntu.com
<bodhi_zazen> There are none Iowan
<Effenberg0x0> May I?
<s-fox> yes
<bodhi_zazen> No ban reversal candidates added themselves to the agenda, none showed up
<Effenberg0x0> Thanks, I have two items for you to consider. We can discuss both in the future as we're short on time now.
<Effenberg0x0> #1 (The small one): This cycle is about quality. We need more common users testing the Dev. Release. If possible, I'd like Ubuntu+1 to move up a little in the forum sections. It's a little hidden, and that is not compatible to current Ubuntu strategy.
<s-fox> don't worry, we're only 55 mins over our allocation of an hour
<bodhi_zazen> Effenberg0x0: np, in the future = add them to agenda ;)
<Effenberg0x0> Ok bodhi_zazen
<Effenberg0x0> And #2
<jacob> +1 Effenberg0x0
<bodhi_zazen> +1 to moving it to main =)
<uRock> another +1
<coffeecat> +1 from me
<cariboo907> +1 from me too
<s-fox> [VOTE] Move u+1 so it is more visible
<meetingology> Please vote on: Move u+1 so it is more visible
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<bodhi_zazen> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from bodhi_zazen
<cariboo907> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from cariboo907
<Iowan> +0
<coffeecat> +1
<meetingology> +0 received from Iowan
<meetingology> +1 received from coffeecat
<s-fox> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from s-fox
<uRock> (plus one)
<Effenberg0x0> wow, great, huge support! Thanks guys! Let me paste text for the next request.
<s-fox> [ENDVOTE]
<meetingology> Voting ended on: Move u+1 so it is more visible
<meetingology> Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:1
<meetingology> Motion carried
<Effenberg0x0> #2 (The big one): UF â U+1Team partnership. The U+1 Team is independent from QA and any other structure, reporting only to CC. But it is strongly related to UF (and UF's Ubuntu+1 sub-forum). Initially, most of our members came from UF, including some UF staff and Ubuntu members via Forums. We even have 2 UF Council members in our team. I personally see UF as the most successful endeavor of Ubuntu in on-line communities.
<Effenberg0x0> We need to work together. U+1 team was designed to work via partnerships, with defined term lengths, goals, tasks, limited scope, metrics. In this sense, I'd like to propose such a partnership between U+1 and UF.
<Effenberg0x0> UF can benefit from having some of it's staff involved in learning in testing, QA and technical work â a glimpse of a broader Ubuntu universe. UF can also recruit staff and candidates to Members from U+1 (likely technical and committed to Ubuntu).
<Effenberg0x0> U+1 Team can benefit from having more Ubuntu-commited members in testing (and possibly DOC and other activities) and strong recruitment to testing via Forums. Forums are also (IMO) an amazing thermometer of Ubuntu software quality.
<Effenberg0x0> We can work to draft a scope for such partnership together and define a term-length of one development cycle as a trial. I can have a draft for your appreciation in a week or so.
<Effenberg0x0> whew
<s-fox> +1 on reviewing a draft
<s-fox> The idea really needs some discussion
<bodhi_zazen> discussion would be great, plan sounds solid
<bodhi_zazen> continue to build on success
<Effenberg0x0> I think it's a win-win. For UF and U+1 Team. We just need to set details.
<bodhi_zazen> o/
<s-fox> Effenberg0x0 could you prepare the draft and  get it to a the FC?
<Effenberg0x0> s-fox, sure. Gie a couple days and I'll send it to FC mail, ok?
<bodhi_zazen> Effenberg0x0: and add an item to FC agenda
<Effenberg0x0> bodhi_zazen, Ok, will do
<uRock> Gotta go. It's been nice... 8)
<bodhi_zazen> Unresolved items -> carry over
<s-fox> [ACTION] Effenberg0x0 to send fc draft and post on agenda
<meetingology> ACTION: Effenberg0x0 to send fc draft and post on agenda
<s-fox> bodhi_zazen floor is yours
<bodhi_zazen> Just a few short comments on #ubuntuforums
<bodhi_zazen> The channel is intended to be a voice for the community and a place for staff to interact
<bodhi_zazen> It seems to be working well
<bodhi_zazen> feel free to participate, including steering the occasional discussion of items on the FC agenda
<bodhi_zazen> encourage discussion of community issues
<bodhi_zazen> as staff, you are the facilitators
<bodhi_zazen> We simply get more done, and have more community support for change if we have the discussion with the community
<bodhi_zazen>  /end
<cariboo907> o/
<s-fox> cariboo907 go
<bodhi_zazen> go cariboo907
<cariboo907> Who is going to move the Precise sub-forum to the archive, and create a new one for QQ
<bodhi_zazen> are you volunteering cariboo907 ?
<cariboo907> I guess I am, it will just be a bit later this time around,
<Effenberg0x0> Is archiving it really needed? Considering many bugs and workarounds are persistent?
<bodhi_zazen> OK, if you need help, let us know
<bodhi_zazen> not archiving, closing (I assume)
<s-fox> [ACTION]  cariboo907 to handle precise and create QQ Subforum
<meetingology> ACTION: cariboo907 to handle precise and create QQ Subforum
<s-fox> Okay, anything else?
<Iowan> New member message?
<s-fox> Oh yes, can i do it this month?
<bodhi_zazen> \o/
<Iowan> +1
<cariboo907> +1
<s-fox> [ACTION] New member message -> s-fox
<meetingology> ACTION: New member message -> s-fox
<coffeecat> s-fox, I;m so glad! :)
<s-fox> Anything else? not like we're running late or anything
<s-fox> ;)
<Iowan> done here...
<cariboo907> that's it for me, I'm getting hungry :)
<s-fox> i have work in 4 hours and yet to sleep
<bodhi_zazen> getting long in the tooth
<Iowan> eeewww
<jacob> it's a comfortable 9pm here :3
<moergaes> Thanks for now. Good night, everybody.
<mhall119> east coast!
<cariboo907> it's only 18:00 here
<cariboo907> on the Pacific coast
<s-fox> okay
<coffeecat> 2 in the morning here. :(
<jacob> good meeting all, night
<s-fox> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Apr 26 01:04:41 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-04-25-23.02.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-04-25-23.02.html
<Effenberg0x0> Thank you guys
<jacob> <-- jacob pretends to leave the channel but never really does
<mhall119> g'night s-fox
<s-fox> Can someone grab that link please ?
<s-fox> my tablet is giving me issues
<jacob> short link: http://j.mp/IEXiqp
<jacob> can post to SCC if wanted
<Iowan> (post it)
<jacob> done
<s-fox> Thanks jacob
<jacob> np
<s-fox> I am going, thanks for coming everyone
<jacob> bye s-fox
<oldos2er> thaanks, s-fox
<wildmanne39> Is the floor open to questions?
<bodhi_zazen> yes wildmanne39 , but FC members are drooping like flies -> move to #ubuntuforums
<wildmanne39> I did thanks bodhi_zazen
#ubuntu-meeting 2012-04-27
<highvoltage> what the heck!?
<greg-g> highvoltage: ??
#ubuntu-meeting 2012-04-29
 * Pici looks at clock
 * AlanBell sees clock
<AlanBell> #startmeeting IRC team
<meetingology> Meeting started Sun Apr 29 18:01:06 2012 UTC.  The chair is AlanBell. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | IRC team Meeting | Current topic:
<AlanBell> hi all and welcome to the meeting o/
<AlanBell> who is here?
<Pici> aloha
<Pici> hm.
<Myrtti> hello
<Pici> I guess we'll wait a few more minutes...
<AlanBell> well this is awfully quiet
<Pici> Well, it is a beautiful day out, at least here.
<AlanBell> raining here
<JanC> and in many countries this is probably a "long weekend"
<AlanBell> we have a drought apparently, complete with hosepipe ban. It has barely stopped raining for a month.
<Pici> 16C/61F and sunny here.
<Myrtti> ground water takes some time to refill from rain
<ikonia> the UK is drowning, so the UK guys should be here
 * AlanBell is building an ark
<ikonia> wise
<AlanBell> not going to forget the dinosaurs this time
<Myrtti> AlanBell: ah, so you're taking your chickens with, good plan.
<AlanBell> friendly little dinosaurs
<Myrtti> kluck kluck kluck
<AlanBell> here is the agenda https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/IrcCouncil/MeetingAgenda
<AlanBell> think we might put it off for a few days, any pressing items to discuss right now?
<Pici> There were a few things that jussi wanted to discuss, but even hes not here.
<Pici> Do we have a time-frame for a UDS meeting? or for the intra-council meeting?
<AlanBell> not yet
<AlanBell> I will find out
<AlanBell> I think we should reschedule this meeting for some time this week
<Pici> I think thats a good idea.
<Myrtti> btw the quatzal repositories are open already
<AlanBell> any preferred day?
<Myrtti> on related note in the past the -r-p was open for a bit longer than just few days because different locos have parties on the following weekend(s), but I do agree that this time closing it was a good idea
<AlanBell> think I have a drinks evening of some sort on Tuesday
<Pici> AlanBell: Anything *should* work fine for me.
<jussi> Im now here
<jussi> :/
<AlanBell> hi jussi
<jussi> hi
 * AlanBell wonders about rescheduling for tomorrow
<jussi> probably hard for me as Im travelling tomorrow
<jussi> wednes day could be good
<AlanBell> how about Wednesday from 19:00 to 20:00 UTC which slots between jono's home videocast and the lubuntu team meeting on the fridge calendar?
<Unit193> Awesome, I didn't miss anything.
<AlanBell> ok, that is in the calendar now
<Pici> Sounds good to me.
<Unit193> http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?iso=20120502T1900
<AlanBell> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Sun Apr 29 18:38:50 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-04-29-18.01.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-04-29-18.01.html
<AlanBell> oh well, see you on wednesday folks
<AlanBell> ah bother, I see I sent the email reminder to the IRC council not the IRC discussion list /o\
<bkerensa> =o
#ubuntu-meeting 2013-04-22
<jdstrand> hi!
<tyhicks> hello
<jdstrand> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Apr 22 16:34:03 2013 UTC.  The chair is jdstrand. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<jdstrand> The meeting agenda can be found at:
<jdstrand> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Announcements
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Announcements
<chrisccoulson> yo
<jdstrand> next week we'll be at a sprint and I believe the current meeting time is in conflict with a meeting at the sprint, so we'll skip
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly stand-up report
<jdstrand> I'll go first
<jdstrand> install audits went well last week, nothing surprising or particularly important
<jdstrand> I'm on triage this week
<jdstrand> I've got openjdk-7 updates for this week
<jdstrand> also monthly planning (april review, may planning)
<jdstrand> and sprint preparation. if there's time, I'll take something off the list
<jdstrand> sbeattie: you're up
<sbeattie> I'm focused on workitems again this week, on the security-1304-appisolation-example blueprint
<sbeattie> I'll specifically be working on the prototype launcher bits
<sbeattie> as well as prepping for the sprint
<sbeattie> and that's pretty much it for me
<sbeattie> tyhicks: you're up
<tyhicks> I'm continuing work on the dbus regression tests from last week
<tyhicks> then I'll move to ' initial work to query confinement labeling of sender' and 'dbus daemon, pass labeling info on messages so security context can be queried by recipient'
<tyhicks> I'll have some sprint prep, too
<tyhicks> that's it for me
<tyhicks> jjohansen: you're up
<jjohansen> I'll be running around in panic, err that is prepping for the sprint too
<jjohansen> I have some bugs to finish chasing down, and then I'll be back to working on signals and other bits of ipc
<jdstrand> jjohansen: what are those bugs in?
<jjohansen> jdstrand: good question, I chased one down to my kernel, one to the library and I think one is in dbus, I need to verify that and if so I'll pull tyhicks in
<jdstrand> heh, ok
<jjohansen> jdstrand: oh! I should have said dev bugs :)
<jjohansen> thats it from me sarnold your up
<sarnold> I'm working on the mysql update today, hoping to finish testing on it late today (those tests are immensely long, sheesh)
<sarnold> probably publishing tomorrow
<sarnold> when I'm done with that, I'll look at bouncy castle, and if there's any time left, I may give a follow-up audit to one of the packages I NAKd for the forums; the company was kind enough to send me another version for review after fixing my previous complaints. (woo)
<sarnold> I'm also on community :)
<sarnold> that's it for me, chrisccoulson, your turn
<chrisccoulson> hi :)
<chrisccoulson> so, i spent a bit of time investigating one of the regressions that appeared in firefox 20. got a good handle on that now, but not sure there's much more we can do with it for now
<jdstrand> chrisccoulson: what is the regression?
<chrisccoulson> jdstrand, https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=858782
<ubottu> Mozilla bug 858782 in Extension Compatibility "crash in uGlobalMenuDocListener::DoHandleMutations with GlobalMenu on Ubuntu" [Critical,New]
<chrisccoulson> i'm a bit concerned that if i fix the crash in our addon code, i'll just push the problem elsewhere
<chrisccoulson> (see the last comment)
<jdstrand> huh, interesting
<chrisccoulson> yeah, i wonder if this has the potential to cause other problems
<jdstrand> I guess we'll see what upstream says?
<chrisccoulson> yeah, i'm waiting for them to comment now
<chrisccoulson> also, did some more work with chromium testing. trying to figure out if there's a way to make the installed test suite smaller (each test binary effectively links in a copy of the browser)
<chrisccoulson> we also resolved some confusion regarding qtscript/webkit/v8/JSC :)
<chrisccoulson> and i'm currently trying to figure out why >100 firefox tests started failing over the weekend :(
<chrisccoulson> actually, make that nearly 200 ;) (191 to be exact)
<chrisccoulson> i think that's me done
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Highlighted packages
<jdstrand> The Ubuntu Security team will highlight some community-supported packages that might be good candidates for updating and or triaging. If you would like to help Ubuntu and not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so.
<jdstrand> See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details and if you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-security. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved.
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/mongodb.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/proftpd-dfsg.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/mc.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/cowbell.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/falconpl.html
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Miscellaneous and Questions
<jdstrand> I have one, jjohansen, sbeattie and tyhicks> can you comment on http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-raring/canonical-security-ubuntu-13.04-month-6.html? I need to prepare the monthly work items status for tomorrow. are we on track to be done by friday/tuesday?
<jjohansen> for /me friday - no, tuesday maybe
<jdstrand> jjohansen, sbeattie, tyhicks> and it you haven't already, can you update your work items
<sbeattie> jdstrand: sure
<tyhicks> jdstrand: 'dbus - update aa-logparser, including test' is not likely for Friday, but Tuesday is still a possibility
<tyhicks> I think everything else is still on track for me
<jdstrand> I'm not liking how I need to give a status update a week early... I will have to discuss that and/or modify our planning
<jdstrand> sbeattie: are you on track to be done friday/tuesday?
<sbeattie> jdstrand: yeah
<jdstrand> ok cool
<jdstrand> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
<jdstrand> sbeattie, tyhicks, jjohansen, sarnold, chrisccoulson: thanks!
<jdstrand> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Apr 22 17:05:25 2013 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-04-22-16.34.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-04-22-16.34.html
<tyhicks> thanks
<sbeattie> jdstrand: thanks!
<sarnold> thanks jdstrand :)
<jjohansen> thanks jdstrand
<bdrung> !dmb-ping
<ubottu> bdrung, ScottK, Laney, micahg, barry, tumbleweed, stgraber: DMB ping
<bdrung> meeting in half an hour
<ScottK> Yep.
<bdrung> !dmb-ping
<ubottu> bdrung, ScottK, Laney, micahg, barry, tumbleweed, stgraber: DMB ping
<bdrung> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Apr 22 19:00:55 2013 UTC.  The chair is bdrung. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<bdrung> #topic Review of previous action items
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Review of previous action items
<ScottK> \o
<tumbleweed> hi
<bdrung> stgraber, barry, and laney said via mail that they (probably) won't attend the meeting
<ScottK> But we have their votes on the applications.
<ScottK> Short version of the action items is no change, nothing done.
<bdrung> i will do  the summary of sweetshark's recent sponsorship as  soon as possible.
<bdrung> we can discuss the review separation of PPU from membership at the end of the meeting if time permits
<bdrung> #topic PerPackageUploader Application: Sebastian Heinlein
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: PerPackageUploader Application: Sebastian Heinlein
<ScottK> I'm ready to vote.
<bdrung> glatzor doesn't seem to be online
 * micahg-work has questions
 * tumbleweed would be interested in chatting with the applicant, but I'm fairly sure I know how I'd vote
<bdrung> let skip him for now
<bdrung> #topic PerPackageUploader Application: Gunnar Hjalmarsson
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: PerPackageUploader Application: Gunnar Hjalmarsson
<GunnarHj> Good evening, DMB!
<bdrung> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GunnarHj/PerPackageUploaderApplication
<bdrung> GunnarHj: hi. can you introduce yourself?
<GunnarHj> I started with Ubuntu in 2010, and instantly noticed that I wasn't able to (easily) set languages and regional formats to my liking. Noticed bug 553162, and started to work on it. Seems like I got stuck with this problem area. ;-)
<ubottu> bug 553162 in gdm (Ubuntu) "Set $LANGUAGE if the user picks a different locale in gdm, so that language-selector and gdm stop disagreeing" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/553162
<GunnarHj> I'm an i18n bug fixer, and you may want to consider me an i18n watchdog, since I tend to jump at bugs in many different packages as soon I smell a problem with respect to language and locale handling etc.
<ScottK> I'm ready to vote.
<GunnarHj> language-selector and accountsservice are the packages I most often come back to, and I know quite well by now what they do.
<GunnarHj> I have a question: If you would accept my application, would it make me an ubuntu-dev member, or would that be a separate application? (It would be nice to be able to post to the ubuntu-devel list without moderation.)
<tumbleweed> you'd be an ubuntu-dev member (as things stand right now)
<GunnarHj> tumbleweed: Great, thanks.
<micahg-work> well, I think we'd fix the moderation if we change the base dev group, but we can discuss that later
<GunnarHj> I'm already an ubuntu-member and bug control member.
<micahg-work> GunnarHj, have you collaborated with Debian at all WRT any of the i18n stuff and specifically accountservice since that's what you're seeking upload rights for
<micahg-work> *accountsservice
<GunnarHj> With Debian, yes absolutely, but not with respect to accountsservice since my interest there is Ubuntu specific stuff only.
<GunnarHj> Not sold to Debian, at least not yet. :)
<micahg-work> GunnarHj, the changes you're making only affect Ubuntu, not Debian?
<GunnarHj> micahg-work: Yes.
<micahg-work> and I guess those get pushed straight upstream then?
<GunnarHj> micahg-work: Yes, but they are patches that Debian does not apply (at least that's my understanding).
<bdrung> GunnarHj: are there any intentions to get the patches upstream? the latest package version contains 15 patches.
<GunnarHj> bdrung: The most obvious one I tried to get upstream yet another level, but nothing has happened so far. GNOME seems not very interested in ideas from other distros...
<micahg-work> GunnarHj, FTR, alessio is usually fine with Ubuntu specific patches being forwarded to Debian (might make the maintenance burden easier)
<bdrung> GunnarHj: did you get no response or was the patch rejected?
<GunnarHj> bdrung: Neither. Response, then silence.
<GunnarHj> micahg-work: I'll take your tip and try to do something about Debian.
<micahg-work> GunnarHj, he might even be up for a co-maintainer
<bdrung> sometimes you need to poke upstream more than once and sometimes improving the patch is required to get it accepted.
<GunnarHj> micahg-work: Ok.
<micahg-work> GunnarHj, maybe desrt can help you get the patches upstream (I see him in the commit log)
<bdrung> getting patches as upstream as possible reduces the maintenance burden.
<micahg-work> GunnarHj, are you familiar with the various freezes and exception processes?
<GunnarHj> Please note that the Ubuntu patches in accountsservice presuppose a different approach to part of language locale handling in general. It's a little complicated...
<GunnarHj> micahg-work: Yes. Know them quite well by now.
<micahg-work> GunnarHj, sure, we just like to encourage applicants to collaborate with upstreams where possible to reduce the maintenance burden over time
<micahg-work> GunnarHj, are you subscribed to ubuntu-devel-announce?
<GunnarHj> micahg-work: I fully understand and agree on the goal to reduce the maintenance burden.
<GunnarHj> I'm subscribed to -announce.
<bdrung> GunnarHj: you stated that you dislike the amount of bugs. I agree with you there. Do you have any other idea than throwing more man power at fixing bugs?
<bdrung> there are initiatives like DEP-8 and automated testing that seem to aim in the right direction.
<GunnarHj> bdrung: Well, that would be to test more carefully before uploading, I suppose. ;-)
<micahg-work> FTR, I think most of the bugs are really upstream bugs, there are too many, but no software is perfect
<micahg-work> unfortunately, I think bug control membership has been about the same since I joined about 4 years ago, that certainly doesn't help
<GunnarHj> Agree that the automated testing initiative sounds good.
<GunnarHj> Haven't involved myself in it yet, though.
<bdrung> at least bugs lead to people joining the developer teams. take GunnarHj or me as example. ;)
<GunnarHj> Indeed. :)
<bdrung> let's vote
<bdrung> #vote Should Gunnar Hjalmarsson get upload rights for language-selector and accountsservice?
<meetingology> Please vote on: Should Gunnar Hjalmarsson get upload rights for language-selector and accountsservice?
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<micahg-work> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from micahg-work
<tumbleweed> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from tumbleweed
<bdrung> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from bdrung
<ScottK> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from ScottK
<ScottK> +3 from mail too.
<bdrung> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: Should Gunnar Hjalmarsson get upload rights for language-selector and accountsservice?
<meetingology> Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<bdrung> GunnarHj: congrats.
<ScottK> Can we go over glaztor's application now like we would for an email vote?
<GunnarHj> Thanks guys! Won't misuse my new access rights. :)
<ScottK> (there's no actual requirement the person be present)
<micahg-work> no, since I have questions for the applicant
<bdrung> #topic PerPackageUploader Application: Sebastian Heinlein
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: PerPackageUploader Application: Sebastian Heinlein
<micahg-work> well, I shouldn't say no, but I have questions for the applicant :)
<ScottK> micahg-work: He's already +4, so why block the application?
<bdrung> ScottK: we used to have the application on the meeting to ask questions
<ScottK> Nothing says you can't ask questions anyway.
<ScottK> Yes and so we'll defer it two week, he'll get at least +4 next time and take up an application slot that maybe someone else would use.
<bdrung> but what does asking question bring if you don't get an answer?
<micahg-work> ScottK, depending on the answers, people can change their minds...
<micahg-work> and the vote needs +4 total, not just 4 +1s...
<ScottK> Then we need to document that a meeting is required and votes can't be done over email.
<ScottK> Right, but is anyone considering -1?
<ScottK> I could image a +0, but really.
<bdrung> micahg-work: can we move the application to email?
<micahg-work> email votes are at the discretion of the DMB
<micahg-work> bdrung, I suppose, should I send my questions by E-Mail?
<ScottK> If we can do it on email, why can't we do it right now?
<bdrung> ScottK: a meeting is normally required, but we can do it over email for special cases.
<micahg-work> bdrung, is there a pressing need that it can't wait 2 weeks?  we usually do e-mail when it's difficult for an applicant to attend a meeting
<ScottK> There's never a pressing need and things keep getting kicked down the road.
<ScottK> Look at the impressive DMB progress on open actions in the last two weeks.
 * bdrung promises improving on processing action items.
<bdrung> I like to talk to glatzor on IRC before voting to hear his answers to micahg's question and to ask him questions.
<ScottK> OK.  Looks like a victory for process over substance, but that's what some people think is important.
<bdrung> there are no applications for the next meeting and therefore I see no pressing need for moving the application to email.
<ScottK> Will someone take the action to email glatzor and tell him we decided to wait two weeks.
<bdrung> I propose to ask glatzor if he is fine with attending the next meeting or if he want to be asked via email to avoid the waiting time.
<ScottK> Sounds good.  Will you do it?
<bdrung> okay, i will to it as part of the chair's duties.
<bdrung> #topic Any other business
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Any other business
<micahg-work> meeting time change for 14:00?
<ScottK> What about PPU/membership?
<ScottK> I thought that was on the agenda?
<ScottK> micahg-work: Who asked for it to be changed?
<micahg-work> I did
<bdrung> let's discuss the time change before PPU/membership.
<ScottK> Oh.
<micahg-work> we took a poll, 15:00 UTC Mon seemed to be fine
<micahg-work> unanimous in fact
<ScottK> It's fine for me.
<micahg-work> 13:00 was also on the poll, but I forgot I had a previous commitment
<micahg-work> so, barring any objections, can we announce the new time for the early meeting?
<bdrung> IIRC there was a question about using UTC or DST.
<micahg-work> ah, right
<micahg-work> I'm not sure we settled that one, 15:00 UTC in the winter would be problematic right now
<bdrung> did we come to a conclusion there?
<micahg-work> I'd prefer 16:00 london time if I had a choice
<micahg-work> that should work for me year round...
<micahg-work> but that moves the winter meeting 2 hours ahead of where it was
<bdrung> so 16:00 and 21:00 London time? when do they switch the time?
<micahg-work> hrm, that's the other problem I guess, US switches earlier/later than London
<bdrung> We switch at the last Sunday in March/October in Germany IIRC.
<micahg-work> it's easier for me to remember UTC...but it's only 4 weeks out of the year that it's off
<micahg-work> same in London as Germany
<ScottK> I'd suggest we either decide based on poll results or go back to the list since we're short three people.
<ScottK> Personally, I'm flexible.
<bdrung> let's sum it up
<micahg-work> 15:00 UTC works for now, need to decide if we're switching to GMT or keeping UTC
<bdrung> The proposal is to move to 15:00 / 20:00 UTC in the Summer (from the last Sunday in March till October) and to 14:00 / 19:00 UTC in Winter (from the last Sunday in October til March)
<micahg-work> I'd prefer 16:00/21:00 for the winter
 * bdrung is confused with time zones.
<micahg-work> BTW, the 19:00 meeting is fine for me ATM, unless there's a desire to keep 5 hours between meetings
<bdrung> The proposal is to move to 15:00 / 19:00 UTC in the Summer (from the last Sunday in March till October) and to 16:00 / 20:00 UTC in Winter (from the last Sunday in October til March)
<bdrung> micahg-work: i calculated the times wrongly. i didn't want to the the late meeting.
<micahg-work> seems fine
<micahg-work> should we do a list vote?
<bdrung> yes
<micahg-work> bdrung, I can take an action item to call for the vote
<micahg-work> I can also take an action item to poke about PPU/membership decoupling
<micahg-work> unless ScottK wants the seocnd one
<bdrung> #action micahg to call for votes for the new meeting times
<meetingology> ACTION: micahg to call for votes for the new meeting times
<ScottK> Don't we have a proposal we can vote on for the PPU thing?
<bdrung> should we move the next meeting from 14:00 UTC to 15:00 UTC?
<micahg-work> ScottK, ISTR there being some disagreement on a few points still
<micahg-work> bdrung, I would prefer to move the meeting, yes (especially since the poll results were unanimous)
<ScottK> micahg-work: Give me a link to your last proposal and I'll take the action.
<bdrung> (before getting a consensus on changing the schedule?)
<micahg-work> ScottK, ok, I'll have to do that when I get home, there should be a thread on the DMB list
<ScottK> OK
<bdrung> #action bdrung to change the meeting time for the next meeting from 14:00 UTC to 15:00 UTC
<meetingology> ACTION: bdrung to change the meeting time for the next meeting from 14:00 UTC to 15:00 UTC
<micahg-work> bdrung, yes, I think the UTC/GMT question is separate
<micahg-work> I didn't see any conflicts on the fridge when I checked either
<bdrung> #topic Decoupling PPU rights from Ubuntu membership
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Decoupling PPU rights from Ubuntu membership
<bdrung> micahg-work sent a mail with the subject "Proposal to decouple PPU from Membership" to d-m-b@
<micahg-work> bdrung, we've done that already, "micahg to give ScottK link to proposal and ScottK to move it forward"
<ScottK> I found it.
<ScottK> Having the subject line helps.
<bdrung> we need to vote on it and then?
<ScottK> I'll write a mail to the list.
<ScottK> micahg-work wanted to argue the color of the bike shed some more.
<ScottK> Let me review and mail the list and we'll have a mail vote.
<ScottK> Something that important I think everyone should vote on anyway.
<micahg-work> it needs a nice floral pattern!
<bdrung> #action ScottK to call for votes on the decoupling PPU rights from Ubuntu membership proposal
<meetingology> ACTION: ScottK to call for votes on the decoupling PPU rights from Ubuntu membership proposal
<bdrung> next chair will be Laney
<bdrung> thanks for attending.
<bdrung> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Apr 22 20:22:57 2013 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-04-22-19.00.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-04-22-19.00.html
#ubuntu-meeting 2013-04-23
<jamespage> o/
<yolanda> hi, chairing today for first time, i'll do my best
<smoser> o/
<yolanda> #startmeeting ubuntu-server-team
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Apr 23 16:00:15 2013 UTC.  The chair is yolanda. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:
<yolanda> #topic Review ACTION points from previous meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:  Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<yolanda> (carried forward) arosales to follow up with Norvald regarding SRU
<jamespage> hmm arosales is not around yet
<smoser> copy over.
<jamespage> yolanda, park that one for the time being
<yolanda> ok
<yolanda> zul to send notes from review of complexity of packaging perconia for Ubuntu to the ubuntu-server list
<zul> oops need to be done
<jamespage> zul, I think that would make a good session for next vUDS
<jamespage> specifically to talk about packaging etc....
<zul> jamespage:  *sigh* ok :)
<arosales> hello
<yolanda> hi
<jamespage> zul, maybe you could grab upstream and get them to come along as well
<zul> jamespage:  sure
 * arosales apologizes in advance of not updating the minutes
 * arosales fail
<yolanda> (carried forward) arosales to follow up with Norvald regarding SRU
<jamespage> arosales, did that happen?
<arosales> yolanda, still a todo on my part
<arosales> yolanda, no need to continue tracking it here though
<yolanda> ok
<arosales> I got a task out
<yolanda> next one then
<yolanda> (carried forward) smoser to reach out to juju-core and discuss what integration with ubuntu image meta data can be done for Raring.
<smoser> done.
<yolanda> ok
<yolanda> #topic Raring Development
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:  Raring Development
<yolanda> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RaringRingtail/ReleaseSchedule
<yolanda> #subtopic Release Bugs
<jamespage> yolanda, want me to pickup this section?
<yolanda> thx
<jamespage> OK - so http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-r-tracking-bug-tasks.html#server
<jamespage> only four bugs outstanding - none of those will make release
<jamespage> so deferred until next release
<jamespage> #subtopic Blueprints
<jamespage> #link http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-raring/group/topic-raring-servercloud-overview.html
<jamespage> so I would guess none of the outstanding work items will get done before thursday
<jamespage> POSTPONE as required.
<jamespage> all-in-all great cycle folks - loads of stuff delivered; slight less change in Debian helped us out a bit there!
<jamespage> yolanda, back to you!
<yolanda> #topic Ubuntu Server Team Events
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:  Ubuntu Server Team Events
<yolanda> so last week ODS, and Cloud summit in 2 weeks
<Daviey> All recovering from last week openstack summit :)
<jamespage> anyone got any events in the next few weeks?
<Daviey> There are some release parties this week. :)
 * jamespage is still somewhere over the atlantic
<yolanda> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (plars)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (plars)
<arosales> m_3, is at http://www.railsconf.com/ this weekend
<plars> hi
<plars> I talked to roaksoax
<plars> who said he would take a look at the maas tests I believe
<plars> But any help anyone can provide with testing ISOs on server stuff this week would be great
<plars> respin in progress right now
<plars> That's all I have for now, and my primary focus for the moment
<jamespage> plars, sure - it would be great if the whole team could sniff the ISO
<yolanda> ok, next one
<yolanda> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb)
<jamespage> I know it has less relevance now but its still important!
<smb> Hi, nothing again. Bits and pieces and preparing mentally for next week. :)
<smb> Unfortunately server-team won't be there
<smb> Are there things to bring up?
<jamespage> smb, if it comes up a plan around dkms updates for precise backported kernels would be nice :-)
<smb> jamespage, You got a Icare list?
<Daviey> smb: We'd like to better understand how the kernel team, and QA team are going to identify regressions with all dkms packages
<Daviey> (not just server, IMO)
<jamespage> agreed - its not just server - although we have some specific we handle such as openvswitch and iscsitarget
<smb> Right now there is a few "known" which is mostly the binary gfx drivers
<jamespage> I know the xen blktap driver stuff bust as well
<yolanda> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions regarding Ubuntu ARM Server (rbasak)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions regarding Ubuntu ARM Server (rbasak)
<yolanda> rbasak doesn't seem to be here
<Daviey> He gave his apologies
<Daviey> (sorry for not mentioning it sooner)
<yolanda> ok, i'll skip it then
<yolanda> #topic Open Discussion
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:  Open Discussion
<yolanda> anything to say?
<arosales> Ubuntu Server rocked at ODS, nice work to all
<jamespage> it was fun!
<yolanda> nice experience
<Daviey> It was great to see Openstack deployed via Ubuntu in HA - via juju
<Daviey> & Landscape seemed to come out rather popular aswell.
<jamespage> I'm working on the docs on deploying openstack in HA mode with juju - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/OpenStackHA
<yolanda> i had some comments from a RedHat designer, he likes our Juju interface
<Daviey> super
<yolanda> hi, more topics?
<jamespage> not from me!
<Daviey> Do we need a full meeting next week?  Or would the time be better spent on blueprint drafting & sync/merges?
<Daviey> (Call for topics - will be sent tomorrow BTW)
<Daviey> .. the week after is also a non-starter.. So May 14th?
<Daviey> Agreed?
<hallyn> sounds good
<smoser> i like it
<yolanda> ok
<jamespage> +!
<arosales> thanks for chairing yolanda
<jamespage> +1
<jamespage> rather
<yolanda> thx
<yolanda> #topic Announce next meeting date and time
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:  Announce next meeting date and time
<yolanda> May 14th 16:00 UTC
<yolanda> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Apr 23 16:26:59 2013 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-04-23-16.00.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-04-23-16.00.html
<jamespage> thanks yolanda!
<Daviey> yolanda: you did great.. lets make it a regular thing.. :)
<yolanda> so first time chairing, next time i'll try to do better
<yolanda> it was funny!
<arosales> yolanda, well done this time around :-)
<jsalisbury> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Apr 23 17:00:14 2013 UTC.  The chair is jsalisbury. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<jsalisbury> ##
<jsalisbury> ## This is the Ubuntu Kernel Team weekly status meeting.
<jsalisbury> ##
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/raring
<jsalisbury> # Meeting Etiquette
<jsalisbury> #
<jsalisbury> # NOTE: '..' indicates that you are finished with your input.
<jsalisbury> #       'o/' indicates you have something to add (please wait until you are recognized)
<jsalisbury> Roll Call for Ubuntu Kernel Weekly Status Meeting
<ppisati> o/
<henrix> o/
<sforshee> o/
<smb> o/
<cking> o/
<apw> o/
<kamal> o/
<sconklin> o/
<bjf> o/
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] ARM Status (ppisati)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: ARM Status (ppisati)
<ppisati> R/master: fixed lp1169956 ("highbank: reboot doesn't work reliably"), working
<arges> o/
<ppisati> on lp1171582("[highbank] hvc0 getty causes random hangs") now.
<ppisati> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
<jsalisbury> Release metrics and incoming bug data can be reviewed at the following link:
<jsalisbury> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/kt-meeting.txt
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Milestone Targeted Work Items (ogasawara)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Milestone Targeted Work Items (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> dammit, 2 secs
<ogasawara> [LINK] https://launchpad.net/~canonical-kernel-distro-team/+upcomingwork
<ogasawara> [LINK] http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-raring/canonical-kernel-distro-team.html
<ogasawara> || apw       || foundations-r-secure-boot                   || 1 work item  ||
<ogasawara> ||           || foundations-r-aarch64                       || 1 work item  ||
<ogasawara> ||           || foundations-r-upstart-user-session-enhancements || 1 work item ||
<ogasawara> || ogasawara || hardware-r-kernel-config-review             || 1 work item ||
<ogasawara> ||           || mobile-power-management                     || 1 work item  ||
<ogasawara> || sforshee  || foundations-1303-phablet-kernel-maintenance || 1 work item  ||
<ogasawara> The above summarizes the remaining work items for the 13.04 cycle.  None
<ogasawara> are critical for the 13.04 release and some of the mobile/phablet
<ogasawara> related items will roll forward to 13.10.
<ogasawara> ..
 * shadeslayer listens in
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Raring Development Kernel (ogasawara)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Raring Development Kernel (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> We are 2 days from 13.04's release.  All kernel patches submitted must
<ogasawara> adhere to our SRU policy.  Only critical bug fixes necessary for the
<ogasawara> 13.04 release will warrant an upload at this time.  There are currently
<ogasawara> no plans for a 0-day SRU kernel either.
<ogasawara>     
<ogasawara> Important upcoming dates:
<ogasawara>  * Thurs Apr 25 - Ubuntu 13.04 Final (2 days)
<ogasawara> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: CVE's (sconklin)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: CVE's (sconklin)
<sconklin> == 2013-04-23 (weekly) ==
<sconklin> Currently we have 81 CVEs on our radar, with 18 CVEs added this week.
<sconklin> See the CVE matrix for the current list:
<sconklin> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/cve/pkg/ALL-linux.html
<sconklin> Overall the backlog has decreased slightly this week:
<sconklin> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/status/cve-metrics.txt
<sconklin> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/cve/pkg/CVE-linux.txt
<sconklin> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Quantal/Precise/Oneiric/Lucid/Hardy (bjf/henrix/sconklin)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Quantal/Precise/Oneiric/Lucid/Hardy (bjf/henrix/sconklin)
<sconklin> *   Lucid - In Verification; (14 commits)
<sconklin> * Precise - In Verification; 2 upstream releases; (170 commits)
<sconklin> * Quantal - In Verification; 2 upstream releases; (225 commits)
<sconklin> Precise and Quantal had multiple regressions during verification.
<sconklin> One regression has been isolated to an i915 patch which has been reverted
<sconklin> The other is almost completely bisected.
<sconklin> When complete, Precise and Quantal will be respun.
<sconklin> Current opened tracking bugs details:
<sconklin> * http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/kernel-sru-workflow.html
<sconklin> For SRUs, SRU report is a good source of information:
<sconklin> * http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/sru-report.html
<sconklin> Future stable cadence cycles:
<sconklin> * https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RaringRingtail/ReleaseInterlock
<sconklin> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
<shadeslayer> o/
<jsalisbury> shadeslayer, go
<shadeslayer> could someone expand on what's going on the arm side ?
<shadeslayer> device enablement and all
<ppisati> a lot :)
<apw> shadeslayer, i think that is rather open ended, did you have something specific in mind ?
<jsalisbury> shadeslayer, ?
<ogasawara> maybe shadeslayer can follow up in #ubuntu-kernel
<ogasawara> ..
<shadeslayer> bah
<shadeslayer> stupid internet
<shadeslayer> I'll follow up in #ubuntu-kernel :)
<shadeslayer> and one other question
<jsalisbury> shadeslayer, go ahead
<shadeslayer> mlankhorst gave me this patch http://cgit.freedesktop.org/~mlankhorst/linux/commit/?id=ae7b687c2a57ec50a9d3dde7b0a80a262fdc8c8 to get VGA switcheroo to work on the Macbook Pro
<shadeslayer> the late 2011 model
<shadeslayer> without it, if you try and switch from the ATI graphics chip to the intel one, the screen will turn off and not turn back on again until you reboot
<shadeslayer> any chances of that being patched ? because that's the only missing link to get vgaswitcheroo to work on ubuntu
<apw> shadeslayer, as people have waited till after freeze to raise it it will need to go via the SRU process
<shadeslayer> drat, should have raised it earlier then :)
<jsalisbury> Any other open discussions or questions?
<ogasawara> shadeslayer: if you can, file a bug with the request and we'll get it out our todo list
<shadeslayer> sure can do
<shadeslayer> thanks for clearing that :)
<shadeslayer> ogasawara: should I just file it against linux
<shadeslayer> or some specific package?
<apw> shadeslayer, indeed
<ogasawara> shadeslayer: yes please
<shadeslayer> alright
<apw> (linux is a specific package, the kernel package)
<ogasawara> jsalisbury: I think we can end it
<jsalisbury> Thanks everyone
<jsalisbury> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Apr 23 17:13:41 2013 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-04-23-17.00.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-04-23-17.00.html
<sconklin> thanks
<kamal> jsalisbury: thanks
#ubuntu-meeting 2013-04-26
<costales> quit
#ubuntu-meeting 2013-04-27
<NeolNeol> anyone can help?
<NeolNeol> anyone can help? how to play .trp files?
#ubuntu-meeting 2013-04-28
<cariboo907> ping Merk42
<Merk42> pong
<Merk42> ?
<cariboo907> we are meeting in #ubuntuforums
<Merk42> oh it said here, still not used to IRC..
<bellasbells> Merk42, come to #ubuntuforums
<bellasbells> its there
<bellasbells> not here
<bellasbells> lol
<s-fox> +1 bellasbells
#ubuntu-meeting 2014-04-21
<qengho> Should there be a Developer Membership Board meeting here now?
<stgraber> yep
<stgraber> !dmb-ping
<ubottu> bdrung, ScottK, Laney, micahg, xnox, bdmurray, stgraber: DMB ping
<bdmurray> here
<ScottK> \o
<stgraber> we need one more
<ScottK> Laney said he thought he'd not make it.
<stgraber> xnox is supposed to chair
<ScottK> qengho: I think the answer is no.  Not today for lack of enough members available.
<Laney> Here now if you guys are
<Laney> & want to do it & etc
<Laney> !dmb-ping
<ubottu> bdrung, ScottK, Laney, micahg, xnox, bdmurray, stgraber: DMB ping
<Laney> ah, qengho has gone anyways
<stgraber> I'm around
<Laney> but he's still online
<Laney> Although I said I'd not vote on qengho
<Laney> Could collect the remaining one(s) on email
<stgraber> is he the last minute deferal from the other board? if so, yeah, didn't have time to look at his application anyway
<Laney> Yeah
<Laney> Alright, maybe reply to the list and say so
<Laney> Don't see bkerensa either, but maybe he was here on time
<stgraber> if he was, he didn't say so
<stgraber> I guess we better just postpone the whole thing, blaming it on easter
<Laney> Yeah sorry about that
<Laney> was travelling back from me hols
<stgraber> well, you're far from the only no show and at least you sent a warning to the list, the others didn't
 * Laney nods
<Laney> we (me included) have been a bit bad at attending latlye, especially for the late meeting
<Laney> oh well
<Laney> see you tomorrow
#ubuntu-meeting 2014-04-22
<xnox> apologies for missing this meeting. sad we didn't get quorum due to easter.
<jose> xnox: oh, don't worry, that was 8h ago
<arosales> Hello
<smoser> o/
<gaughen> o/
<smb> o/
<rharper> \o
<gnuoy> o/
<arosales> Looks like I am chairing today, smoser thanks for the reminder
<arosales> #startmeeting ubuntu-server-team
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Apr 22 16:01:59 2014 UTC.  The chair is arosales. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:
<arosales> #topic Review ACTION points from previous meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<coreycb> o/
<arosales> #info https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting
<matsubara> o/
<arosales> #info no previous action items
<lutostag> o/
<arosales> #topic Trusty Development
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Trusty Development
<arosales> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TrustyTahr/ReleaseSchedule
<zul> uh...done? :)
<arosales> actually we are done as zul says :-)
<rharper> =)
<arosales> good release for everyone :-)
<arosales> not sure if we have gotten a name for "U" cycle yet
<arosales> moving on to next topic then
<arosales> #subtopic Release Bugs
<arosales> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-t-tracking-bug-tasks.html#ubuntu-server
<arosales> critical https://bugs.launchpad.net/juju-core/+bug/1304135
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1304135 in juju-core (Ubuntu Trusty) "panic: runtime error: index out of range" [Critical,Triaged]
<arosales> looks like it should be in 1.18.1 of juju-core
<arosales> jamespag`: do we need to sru that?
<coreycb> arosales, he's on vacation unless he's lurking
<arosales> any other server folks available to help with SRUs?
<arosales> rsync also looks fixed https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/rsync/+bug/1307230
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1307230 in rsync (Ubuntu Trusty) "3.1.0 daemon infinite loop when no matched user in secrets" [High,Triaged]
<arosales> but still has a task for Trusty
<smoser> i can help with sru, and so can other ubuntu devs.
<arosales> gaughen, smoser: anyone from server on the SRU team this cycle?
<arosales> smoser: thanks just calling out the ones under the rls server tracking page.
<arosales> samba bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/samba4/+bug/1308657
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1308657 in samba4 (Ubuntu Trusty) "Ubuntu 13.10 to 14.04: failed to upgrade libsmbclient:amd64 with libsmbclient:i386 installed." [High,Triaged]
<arosales> looks like it is assisgned to Michael Vogt
<arosales> maas: https://bugs.launchpad.net/maas/+bug/1310844
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1310844 in maas (Ubuntu Trusty) "find_ip_via_arp() results in unpredictable, and in some cases, incorrect IP addresses" [High,Triaged]
<arosales> still needs triaged but kirkland's got a branch out for review.
<arosales> any maas folks or again ubuntu devs available for a review ?
<arosales> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/maas/+bug/1310846 looks related
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1310846 in maas (Ubuntu Trusty) "amt template gives up way too easily" [High,Triaged]
<arosales> smoser:  gaughen ^
<lutostag> I guess that might fall into my lap
<arosales> thanks lutostag
<arosales> and it looks like jamespag` has https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ceph/+bug/1278466 in progress
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1278466 in ceph (Ubuntu Trusty) "[FFe] ceph firefly stable release" [High,In progress]
<matsubara> arosales, that maas bug has been mp'ed and reviewed by gmb here: https://code.launchpad.net/~kirkland/maas/1310844/+merge/216647
<arosales> so that covers the high/critical bugs under server on the rls tracking page
<smoser> lutostag, well, first to maas upstream, then back to ubuntu.
<matsubara> well, still missing tests but gmb is on it, fwiw
<arosales> ah good to know matsubara, thanks for the info.
<arosales> any other bugs to discuss?
<arosales> #subtopic Blueprints
<arosales> all blueprints are done right :-)
<arosales> lets see
<arosales> #link http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-t/group/topic-t-servercloud-overview.html
<arosales> 84% done
<arosales> gaughen, smoser should these be deferred, or are folks going to continue working on them until 14.04.1?
<gaughen> arosales, there are a couple that need updating. smoser for one
<gaughen> arosales, the ceph tasks are still relevant.
<arosales> gaughen are you going to be making new blueprints for the u-cycle though
<gaughen> arosales, yes, we've already started and by we I mean jamespag`
<arosales> I suspect a lot are still valid, but just wanted to see how server is going to track them
<arosales> gaughen: so is the plan to defer all t-cycle blueprints as new u-cycle ones are made?
<gaughen> arosales, we've started making new ones. as the new ones appear we're moving stuff
<smoser> well, we probably should deferfor process sake.
<smoser> they can still be worked on, but htere is no poitn in tracking them under T release.
<arosales> smoser: ack and thanks
<gaughen> arosales, but like I said the ceph stuff is still open because as soon as they land firefly we'll sru the update in
<gaughen> smoser, true
<arosales> #action: team defer t-cycle blueprints. Put relevent tasks into new u-cycle blueprints (note http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-t/group/topic-t-servercloud-overview.html is 84% done)
<meetingology> ACTION: : team defer t-cycle blueprints. Put relevent tasks into new u-cycle blueprints (note http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-t/group/topic-t-servercloud-overview.html is 84% done)
<arosales> #topic Server & Cloud Bugs (caribou)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Server & Cloud Bugs (caribou)
<arosales> caribou any other bugs to cover?
<arosales> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (psivaa)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (psivaa)
<arosales> psivaa: any udpats from QA team
 * arosales suspects folks are resting from release, last week
<arosales> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee)
<smb> I have been working on a hot fix for Precise drbd8 today (as always the real test won't happen before production). Can someone have a peek review at the debdiff in https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/drbd8/+bug/1185756. Two positive testings but maybe we want to wait for the testing of the guy from comment #61 (if that happens) before rushing it out.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1185756 in drbd8 (Ubuntu Precise) "drbd8-utils not compatible with linux-lts-raring kernel in 12.04" [High,Fix released]
<smb> Apart from that, nothing else if there are no questions.
<arosales> smoser: ^
<arosales> smb: also gcc-go wise in trusty these two bugs have been consistantly causing seg faults in juju
<arosales> #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gccgo-go/+bug/1275620
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1275620 in gccgo-go (Ubuntu) "gccgo-go segfaults, something related to alternatives" [High,Fix committed]
<arosales> #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gccgo-4.9/+bug/1304754
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1304754 in gccgo-4.9 (Ubuntu) "gccgo on ppc64el using split stacks when not supported" [Medium,Confirmed]
<arosales> seem to be related
<smoser> smb, i'll look
<arosales> #action smoser to review debdiff in https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/drbd8/+bug/1185756
<meetingology> ACTION: smoser to review debdiff in https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/drbd8/+bug/1185756
<arosales> #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/drbd8/+bug/1185756
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1185756 in drbd8 (Ubuntu Precise) "drbd8-utils not compatible with linux-lts-raring kernel in 12.04" [High,Fix released]
<arosales> smb, if any kernel folks could take a look at those seg faults that would be much appreciated
<smb> arosales, I will have a look at the go bugs.
<arosales> smb: thanks
<arosales> #topic Ubuntu Server Team Events
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Ubuntu Server Team Events
<smb> arosales, I have a feeling there were dicussions related at least the the second one
<arosales> smb: ya the power community is looking into it, but no fixes yet.
<arosales> Any upcoming server team events?
<arosales> #topic Open Discussion
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Open Discussion
<arosales> Any other topics?
<psivaa> arosales: sorry missed your ping. nothing from us this week too
<arosales> psivaa: ack
<arosales> #topic Announce next meeting date and time
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Announce next meeting date and time
<arosales> NEXT MEETING: Tuesday 2014-04-29 at 1600 UTC
<rbasak> Thanks arosales!
<arosales> thanks for participating folks
<arosales> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Apr 22 16:24:58 2014 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2014/ubuntu-meeting.2014-04-22-16.01.moin.txt
<gaughen> thanks arosales!!!!
#ubuntu-meeting 2014-04-24
 * slangasek waves
<jodh> o/
<mvo> o/
 * infinity hides in the corner.
 * slangasek turns the searchlight towards infinity 
<slangasek> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Apr 24 15:02:15 2014 UTC.  The chair is slangasek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<slangasek> [TOPIC] lightning round
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: lightning round
<slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e barry doko stgraber jodh bdmurray slangasek cjwatson xnox caribou infinity mvo)
<slangasek> barry mvo slangasek stgraber xnox jodh bdmurray doko cjwatson infinity caribou
<barry> \o/
<barry> catching up from pycon, keysigning
<barry> touch: updating, fixing, building, testing gallery-app py3 port.  LP: #1310794.  LP: #1222910
<barry> general: reported LP: #1310663 and downgraded to fix.  proposed apt-clone MP to clean up cruft.  LP: #1309447 review.  LP: #1290847 work ongoing.
<barry> done
<ubottu> Error: Could not gather data from Launchpad for bug #1310794 (https://launchpad.net/bugs/1310794). The error has been logged
<barry> mumble seems down too :/
<mvo> Prepared 78 lines report from timelog and decided to be less boring with this one:
<mvo> Bugfixing for trusty/trusty-proposed: apt, aptdaemon, apt-clone, gdebi, apt-ddtp, python-apt, software-center, software-properties, ubuntu-release-upgrader, update-manager
<mvo> apt: work on apt-get intsall foo.dsc, bash completion, ftparchive-srcpkgcache, apt-get update progress estimates
<mvo> Misc:
<mvo>  - lp-changelogs-crawler fix hang, add socket timeout to avoid future hangs
<mvo>  - sprint, HR
<ubottu> Error: Could not gather data from Launchpad for bug #1222910 (https://launchpad.net/bugs/1222910). The error has been logged
<mvo> EOF
<ubottu> Error: Could not gather data from Launchpad for bug #1310663 (https://launchpad.net/bugs/1310663). The error has been logged
<ubottu> Error: Could not gather data from Launchpad for bug #1309447 (https://launchpad.net/bugs/1309447). The error has been logged
<ubottu> Error: Could not gather data from Launchpad for bug #1290847 (https://launchpad.net/bugs/1290847). The error has been logged
<slangasek> no bot, not like that!
<xnox> slangasek: lp DoS
<mvo> barry: when LP is up again I have a look at the apt-clone
<slangasek> sigh
<barry> mvo: cool, should be simple
<slangasek> xnox: do we know why we're getting these DoSes?
<xnox> slangasek: ... i wonder if the botnet is ubuntu =)
<infinity> slangasek: I assume Dmitry annoyed someone a little too much.
<xnox> slangasek: there is #is-outage in progress / incident
 * slangasek wonders why that's a separate channel
<slangasek>  * release week
<slangasek>  * short week due to vacation
<slangasek>  * working on filling the Java role
<slangasek>  * working on some reports for a customer
<slangasek> (done)
<barry> it's definitely not utopic
<xnox> slangasek: about Java role, elmo has a few requests if/when that possition is filled. Mostly around packaging java software we use in production - jenkins, elasticsearch, cassandra.
<stgraber> Waited all week for Mark to announce the new name...
<stgraber> More seriously:
<stgraber>  - 14.04 release
<stgraber>  - LXC upstream work: fixed a bunch of Jenkins problems, bug reports, debugged
<stgraber>    some crazy issue on machines with a crazy amount of network namespaces and
<stgraber>    routes (kernel network stack falling appart when you have around 500 netns
<stgraber>    with over 200 routes each).
<stgraber>  - cgmanager/systemd: looked into a couple of bugs
<slangasek> xnox: that's, er, out of scope for the role
<stgraber>  - U preparation: setup system-image, cleaned up some stuff there too, setup
<stgraber>    the QA tracker, setup extras.ubuntu.com
<stgraber>  - Some SRU reviews
<stgraber>  
<stgraber> I'm off tomorrow and Monday.
<stgraber> (DONE)
<doko> xnox, this is not about packaging software in Java
<xnox> slangasek: i know, that's what i said as well... but using 3rd-party binary .debs is also not ideal.
<doko> - PyCon
<doko> - two Easter holidays
<doko> - prepare binutils and GCC for utopic
<doko> (done)
<xnox> do* Release week -> released
<xnox> * Unicorn opening -> did couple minor opening tasks
<xnox> * Worked on pushing deltas to debian where appropriate
<xnox> * Working on better upstart/service/update-rc.d integration
<xnox>   ( e.g. such that launching init.d scripts work & we can revert php5
<xnox>   job change)
<xnox> * Working with nvme-linux & efibootmgr to add support for generating
<xnox>   nvme efi boot entries.
<xnox> * worked on python3-launchpadlib:
<xnox>   - merge proposal in progress to fix +access-token in launchpad
<xnox>   - merge proposal against requests-oauthlib to support redirects
<xnox> å»
<slangasek> xnox: not disagreeing, but there's no reason to think that someone maintaining the JVM is also going to be packaging complicated .jar stacks
<jodh> * foundations-1305-upstart-work-items:
<jodh>   - cgroup support: Back working on this. Current plan is to couple the
<jodh>     cgmanager code (but not the async elements) from the cgroup branch
<barry> xnox: \o/  if you're hunting for reviews, let me know
<jodh>     and the async branch which I've been working on for the past couple
<jodh>     of days since this provides a much better design.
<jodh> * misc:
<jodh>   - short week due to Easter and also out Tuesday.
<jodh> â
<xnox> doko: are we going to switch to 4.9 in utopic, or is that out-of-scope?
<doko> xnox, around the 4.9.1 release
<cjwatson> doko: is there anything else needed in the utopic archive right now for toolchain, or is it good from your point of view (once the autopkgtest issues are fixed)?
<cjwatson> doko: I didn't see a GCC upload to utopic yet
<doko> cjwatson, I don't have any more issues, maybe the dpkg merge, so that fortran packages are built with optimization
<cjwatson> dpkg was merged
<cjwatson> oh, still in unapproved
<doko> didn't subscribe to utopic-hcanges quick enough
<infinity> Yeah.  It's merged, but waiting. :)
<cjwatson> yeah, I'll poke that one
<infinity> It was the second thing uploaded.
<infinity> Also, must have vim, so I stop getting angry red in my changelogs.
<doko> will upload gcc-4.9 and gcc-4.8
<xnox> infinity: i thought vim was done.
<infinity> xnox: Same story.  I did the merge, sitting in the queue. :)
<cjwatson> xnox: also in unapproved
<slangasek> cjwatson: your turn (people going out of order, people on holiday... madness)
<xnox> ah, ok.
<cjwatson> Spent most of the week working on livefs-in-LP.  I have most of the master side done now; just need to write build behaviour tests and add webservice-flavoured methods for retrieving build files.  "bzr damage" => 2175 LoC
<cjwatson> Opening utopic, at last; initial archive publication, seeds, setting up various reports.
<cjwatson> ..
<cjwatson> (accepted dpkg and vim)
<infinity> * released trusty
<infinity> * long weekend
<infinity> * opening utopic
<infinity> * misc
<infinity> â­
<caribou> * More work on sosreport. Now part of the upstream team
<caribou> * Re-submitted SRU on bug 1293291 to enable BTMP on openssh
<ubottu> Error: Launchpad bug 1293291 could not be found
<caribou> * New makedumpfile upstream version to be packaged
<caribou> will need help from some nice DD as my current DM mentor is nowhere to be seen
<caribou> (done)
<infinity> caribou: I've offered to sponsor you in the past. :)
<caribou> infinity: yeah, I wanted to stay nice to my current sponsor but this will now change
<caribou> infinity: I'll ping you
<xnox> caribou: ditto, i can also sponsor things into debian and/or for you to become DM, DD.
<caribou> xnox has also offered to help with my DM submission
<caribou> xnox: I got my gpg key sorted out now. I was waiting for the release to get out of the way to ping you
<xnox> caribou: sounds good. I'll PM you to see what we need to do next.
<slangasek> anything else re: current status?
<slangasek> [TOPIC] trusty SRUs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: trusty SRUs
<slangasek> as expected, there are still some bugs around in the LTS we've just released
<infinity> Lies.
<barry> features
<slangasek> we haven't spent much meeting time on bug tracking this cycle, we should probably do a bit more
<slangasek> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-t-tracking-bug-tasks.html#foundations-bugs
<slangasek> those are the bugs that are targeted to trusty; could you all help take some time today to clean up that list?  Claiming the ones that are SRUs you think you should be driving, letting me know about ones you think we should drop from the list
<slangasek> and if there are some on there that are assigned to you that you think you aren't going to get to, please let me know that as well
<slangasek> ok?
 * mvo nods
<barry> yeppers
 * infinity is reminded to review the bash in the queue.
<slangasek> I guess you mean for utopic, not for trusty?
<infinity> No, for trusty.
<slangasek> it shouldn't be in the queue
<infinity> Oh, did someone let that in while I slept?
<slangasek> they did indeed, Rip
<infinity> Shiny.
<slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<slangasek> anything else?
<slangasek> formulating a game plan for taking control of the botnet and upgrading it to Ubuntu?
<slangasek> (I assume it's running XP right now)
<cjwatson> has anyone worked out how to get from the airport in Malta to the hotel yet?
<cjwatson> seeing as I'm going to be trying to do it after midnight :-/
<infinity> cjwatson: After midnight, I'd assume taxi.
<doko> slangasek, speaking of elmo's list ... is this is list public?
<cjwatson> (or possibly finding a comfy park bench near the airport and doing it in the morning ...)
<cjwatson> infinity: it's like an hour away AIUI?
<infinity> cjwatson: Eek.  Yeah, I've not looked at any of that yet.  Maybe I should get to caring at some point.
<slangasek> doko: "elmo's list"?  that's the version of craiglist where your transactions are randomly accompanied by bursts of laughter?
<xnox> doko: not sure. but it's combination of "jamespage stopped doing jenkins packaging unwinding" and we run "cassandra, ellasticsearch, jenkins" a lot.
<cjwatson> (but I haven't actually looked properly)
<doko> when you walk, you'll arrive in the morning
<cjwatson> doko: thanks
<slangasek> cjwatson: oh, man - no, haven't looked at this at all
<doko> ;p
<slangasek> doko: do you mean the list of non-Ubuntu .debs IS is running?  I certainly haven't seen a list
<doko> xnox, slangasek: well, I would expect puppet on this list too
<slangasek> doko: you expect IS is not using the puppet in the archive...?
<xnox> doko: i'm only aware of the "elmo's java list", no idea about complete "elmo's list"
<mvo> cjwatson: meh, I arrive at 21:45 so no public transport for me as well I guess
<doko> slangasek, I would like to know what else besides of puppet IS is using
<slangasek> doko: IS is using lots of stuff, but that was a list of things IS is using that aren't from the archive
<slangasek> cjwatson: maps.google.com tells me it's only 13m by car
<cjwatson> ah ok, better than I'd heard
<cjwatson> fine, I'm sure that can be managed somehow then
<doko> slangasek, well I mean the list of things we only have in main because IS needs these
<slangasek> maps.google.com also shows me lots of opaque toponyms
<slangasek> doko: those should be annotated in the seed
<slangasek> cjwatson: it also looks like it would be hard to be more than 30m from the airport, FWIW :)
<infinity> slangasek: Maybe the hotel is on an oil rig?
<slangasek> well, evidently there is a second islandthat could introduce ferry delays
<slangasek> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Apr 24 15:36:27 2014 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2014/ubuntu-meeting.2014-04-24-15.02.moin.txt
<xnox> cjwatson: www.travelrepublic.co.uk prices one way private taxi transfer at 12 GBP at 23:30 thus i guess you'd be able to get taxi easily as well.
<slangasek> thanks, all
<xnox> cjwatson: or pre-book online.
<cjwatson> ta
<mvo> thanks
<jodh> thanks
<caribou> thanks, bye
<barry> thanks!
<Guest22880> hi
<Guest22880> what are you guys working on
#ubuntu-meeting 2015-04-20
<mdeslaur> \o
<tyhicks> hello
<jjohansen> o/
<tyhicks> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Apr 20 16:33:15 2015 UTC.  The chair is tyhicks. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<chrisccoulson> hi
<tyhicks> The meeting agenda can be found at:
<tyhicks> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly stand-up report
<tyhicks> jdstrand: you're up
<jdstrand> ]sorry
<jdstrand> this week is again, snappy focused
<jdstrand> I plan on working on finalizing the seccomp glue layer today and test the applied policies, updating ubuntu-core-security as necessary
<jdstrand> I also need a piece for updating the already generated policies when ubuntu-core-security-seccomp is updated (like we do with apparmor-easyprof-ubuntu)
<jdstrand> I made a change to snappy for updating dbus bus policy last week and need to make a change to snappy build to make it fail if the package.yaml is malformed when bus-name is specified
<jdstrand> (not apparmor related)
<jdstrand> then review tools
<tyhicks> whew
<tyhicks> lots of stuff :)
<jdstrand> yeah
<jdstrand> that's it from me
<tyhicks> mdeslaur: you're up
<mdeslaur> I just published some php5 updates
<mdeslaur> and am currently working on new mysql versions
<mdeslaur> after that, I'll be going down the list, there's stuff piling up
<mdeslaur> that's pretty much it...oh, I am on bug triage this week
<mdeslaur> that's it for me, sbeattie, tag, you're it.
<sbeattie> I'm on cve triage this week
<sbeattie> I'm finishing up openjdk testing, though I've hit a small snag where the icedtea plugin isn't working in my test environment on trusty/i386 (but other i386 and trusty/amd64 worked fine), so I need to dig in a bit to what's going on there
<sbeattie> I also need to finish releasing apaprmor 2.9.2 and merge the python bits into my in progress trusty sru.
<sbeattie> and also continue the gcc-pie work
<sbeattie> that's my week. tyhicks?
<tyhicks> I'm in the happy place this week
<tyhicks> I'm going to review the snappy launcher code
<tyhicks> I'll also review some snippets at the request of IS
<tyhicks> still need to revisit the Vivid systemd/sbuild/schroot bugs (LP: #1427264) (LP: #1438942)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1427264 in click (Ubuntu) "using ecryptfs, creating frameworks fail to bind mount issues" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1427264
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1438942 in schroot (Ubuntu) "Host's /dev/shm is mounted over when entering 14.10 and older sbuild schroots" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1438942
<tyhicks> and still need to restart work on AppArmor kernel keyring mediation for user data encryption
<tyhicks> that's it for me
<tyhicks> jjohansen: you're up
<jjohansen> I'm working on the apparmor upstream cleanup again this week. I'll kick in any help on 2.9.2 and 2.10 that sbeattie needs
<jjohansen> and I have some kernel sru prep for the current release cycle
<tyhicks> nice
<tyhicks> sounds like you'll get some time to focus on the upstreaming effort this week
<jjohansen> yes
<jjohansen> I think that is it for me sarnold you are up
<sarnold> I'm on community this week
<sarnold> I'm going to be continuing my travels through openstack country, my travelogues will be for sale in the gift shop..
<sarnold> I'll also try to do some minor apparmor patch reviews as interest allows
<sarnold> that's it for me, chrisccoulson?
<tyhicks> sarnold: last week you mentioned the conntrack mir
 * tyhicks checks on the status
<chrisccoulson> This week, I've probably got a firefox update. I also need to get oxide 1.6 out
<tyhicks> (LP: #1381450)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1381450 in conntrack (Ubuntu) "[MIR] conntrack, libnetfilter-queue, libnetfilter-cttimeout, libnetfilter-cthelper" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1381450
<chrisccoulson> I'll be spending some time to work through code reviews
<sarnold> tyhicks: yeah, I didn't get to it, and I suspect it's too late for this cycle at this point; if you think it isn't, I'd be happy to pick it up asap..
<chrisccoulson> other than that, I'm working through the list of bugs as usual
<chrisccoulson> That's me done
<tyhicks> sarnold: ok, we'll discuss it a little more afterwards
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Highlighted packages
<tyhicks> The Ubuntu Security team will highlight some community-supported packages that might be good candidates for updating and or triaging. If you would like to help Ubuntu and not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so.
<tyhicks> See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details and if you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-security. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved.
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/libxml-security-java.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/mediawiki-extensions.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/maven-indexer.html
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Miscellaneous and Questions
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/unace.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/not-yet-commons-ssl.html
<tyhicks> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
<tyhicks> jdstrand, mdeslaur, sbeattie, jjohansen, sarnold, ChrisCoulson: Thanks!
<tyhicks> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Apr 20 16:58:50 2015 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2015/ubuntu-meeting.2015-04-20-16.33.moin.txt
<mdeslaur> thanks tyhicks!
<sarnold> thanks tyhicks !
<jjohansen> thanks tyhicks
<sbeattie> tyhicks: thanks!
#ubuntu-meeting 2015-04-21
<smoser> o/
<smoser> hello and welcome
<smoser> #startmeeting ubuntu-server-team
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Apr 21 16:00:45 2015 UTC.  The chair is smoser. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:
<beisner> o/
<smoser> #topic Review ACTION points from previous meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<smoser> action items.
<smoser> jamespage, provide feedback on bugs 1425288 and 1425128
<ubottu> bug 1425128 in linux (Ubuntu Trusty) "bcache causes task hang with 3.13 kernel" [Medium,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1425128
<ubottu> bug 1425288 in linux (Ubuntu) "kernel NULL pointer dereference during bcache cache_set_flush call" [High,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1425288
 * jamespage sighs
<jamespage> i've not gone back to those problems again
<jamespage> I wonder whether rharper has hit similar issues?
<smoser> #action jamespage provide feedback on bugs 1425288 and 1425128
<meetingology> ACTION: jamespage provide feedback on bugs 1425288 and 1425128
<smoser> shall bother rharper off line
<smoser> #topic Vivid Development
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Vivid Development
<smoser> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/VividVervet/ReleaseSchedule
<smoser> well, we've almost made it.
<smoser> just ~ 48 hours till another release.
<smoser> unless you have found some dead kittens around your Vivid systems, you're probably looking toward the Woeful Wombat or SRU
<smoser> #subtopic Release Bugs
<smoser> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-v-tracking-bug-tasks.html#ubuntu-server
<smoser> the cloud-init ones are both definitely triaged.
<smoser> cloud-utils shoudl be marked fixed i think. i'll look at that.
<smoser> anyone have comments on ohter bus there ?
<smoser> #subtopic Blueprints
<smoser> #link http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-v/group/topic-v-server.html
<smoser> #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/topic-v-server
<smoser> anyone have anything they want to raise here ?
<smoser> given the current status of vivid, anything not DONE will need to be carried over
<smoser> please do take some time to do that for your items
<smoser> #topic Server & Cloud Bugs (caribou)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Server & Cloud Bugs (caribou)
<smoser> hm.. caribou is on the loose.
<smoser> anyone have anything here ?
<smoser> seeing none, moving on.
<smoser> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (matsubara)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (matsubara)
<smoser> wow. no matsubara either.
<smoser> does anyone have anything *here* ?
 * smoser feels lonely
<smoser> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee, arges)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee, arges)
<smb> Not from me but arges got something...
<smoser> smb is always ready.
<arges> Hi
<arges> So I'd like to add --enable-debug when building the qemu package
<arges> so I can use gdb with it
<arges> bug 1444057
<ubottu> bug 1444057 in qemu (Ubuntu) "gdb remote target of a guest VM fails to continue" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1444057
<arges> If you guys have time (which i'm assuming you dont this week) can you test drive the PPA on that bug to see if perf is worse with that flag added?
<hallyn_> arges: i'm wondering whether it's not a bug in qemu, bc i'm pretty sure that in precise this all worked
<hallyn_> without needing --debug
<hallyn_> i'll look into it some more next week
<arges> hallyn_: yea I'd try just hacking the configure file to not build with -O2 and see what happens
<arges> mabye its a latent gdb bug
<hallyn_> but in the meantime yes, ^ tests would be appreciated so we have the data
<hallyn_> arges: yeah my step one will be reproduce in precise to maek sur ei'm not simply wrong :)(
<arges> ok thanks
<arges> yup
<arges> ..
<smoser> shall we move on?
<arges> smoser: yup
 * smoser thanks our kernel experts
<smoser> #topic Ubuntu Server Team Events
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Ubuntu Server Team Events
<smoser> we should probably consider this meeting cancelled for next week, as most of the Canonical team members will not be present
<smoser> as there is a sprint at the time.
<smoser> anything else ?
<smoser> #topic Open Discussion
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Open Discussion
<smoser> anything here?
<smoser> alright. well, we'll see you 2 weeks from now.
<smoser> thanks everyone.
<smoser> #topic Announce next meeting date, time and chair
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Announce next meeting date, time and chair
<smoser> It looks like it will be a Cinco De Mayo themed celebration
<smoser>  Tuesday 2015-05-05 at 1600 UTC - #ubuntu-meeting
<smoser> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Apr 21 16:16:28 2015 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2015/ubuntu-meeting.2015-04-21-16.00.moin.txt
<jsalisbury> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Apr 21 17:00:04 2015 UTC.  The chair is jsalisbury. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<jsalisbury> ##
<jsalisbury> ## This is the Ubuntu Kernel Team weekly status meeting.
<jsalisbury> ##
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Vivid
<jsalisbury> # Meeting Etiquette
<jsalisbury> #
<jsalisbury> # NOTE: '..' indicates that you are finished with your input.
<jsalisbury> #       'o/' indicates you have something to add (please wait until you are recognized)
<jsalisbury> Roll Call for Ubuntu Kernel Weekly Status Meeting
<cking> o/
<sforshee> o/
<henrix> o/
<chiluk> o/
<ogasawara> o/
<ppisati> o/
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
<jsalisbury> Release metrics and incoming bug data can be reviewed at the following link:
<jsalisbury> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/kt-meeting.txt
<jsalisbury> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Vivid Development Kernel (ogasawara)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Vivid Development Kernel (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> Our Vivid kernel remains based on the upstream v3.19.3 stable kernel.
<ogasawara> We do not intend any additional uploads before release this Thurs.  We
<ogasawara> have started to queue the v3.19.4 and v3.19.5 stable patches for our
<ogasawara> first Vivid kernel SRU.
<ogasawara> -----
<ogasawara> Important upcoming dates:
<ogasawara> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/VividVervet/ReleaseSchedule
<ogasawara> Thurs Apr 23 - 15.04 Release (2 days away!)
<ogasawara> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: CVE's
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: CVE's
<jsalisbury> The current CVE status can be reviewed at the following link:
<jsalisbury> http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/cve/pkg/ALL-linux.html
<jsalisbury> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Utopic/Trusty/Precise/Lucid (bjf/henrix/kamal/arges)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Utopic/Trusty/Precise/Lucid (bjf/henrix/kamal/arges)
<bjf> Status for the main kernels, until today:
<bjf>   *   Lucid - None (no update)
<bjf>   * Precise - Testing & Verification
<bjf>   *  Trusty - Testing & Verification
<bjf>   *  Utopic - Testing & Verification
<bjf>  
<bjf> Current opened tracking bugs details:
<bjf>   * http://kernel.ubuntu.com/sru/kernel-sru-workflow.html
<bjf> For SRUs, SRU report is a good source of information:
<bjf>   * http://kernel.ubuntu.com/sru/sru-report.html
<bjf>  
<bjf>  
<bjf> Schedule:
<bjf>  
<bjf> Current cycle: 10-Apr through 02-May
<bjf> ====================================================================
<bjf>          10-Apr   Last day for kernel commits for this cycle
<bjf> 12-Apr - 18-Apr   Kernel prep week.
<bjf> 19-Apr - 02-May   Bug verification; Regression testing; Release
<bjf> ** NOTE: Support for Lucid ends on April 30.
<bjf>  
<bjf> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
<jsalisbury> Thanks everyone
<jsalisbury> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Apr 21 17:04:09 2015 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2015/ubuntu-meeting.2015-04-21-17.00.moin.txt
#ubuntu-meeting 2016-04-25
<tyhicks> hello
<mdeslaur> \o
<tyhicks> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Apr 25 16:38:42 2016 UTC.  The chair is tyhicks. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<tyhicks> The meeting agenda can be found at:
<tyhicks> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly stand-up report
<tyhicks> mdeslaur: you're up
<mdeslaur> I'm on triage this week
<mdeslaur> I just released mysql updates
<mdeslaur> and will be going down the list
<mdeslaur> I may be also fixing bug 1574670 since people still seem to be using that
<ubottu> bug 1574670 in update-manager (Ubuntu Yakkety) "ubuntu-support-status returns inaccurate information" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1574670
<mdeslaur> and that's pretty much it, sbeattie, you're up
<tyhicks> that'd be nice
<sbeattie> that's broken again? argh.
<sbeattie> I'm in the happy place this week.
<sbeattie> I have openjdk updates to work on, openjdk-8 are built and need testing, I think tdaitx might have openjdk-7 to the point where he'll hand off to me. not sure where openjdk-6 is at
<sbeattie> I need to poke infinity about copying the libc6 updates I have ready to the -proposed pockets, as I'd like for them to go through that process before publishing to -security
<tyhicks> sbeattie: is that so you can get some extra testing?
<sbeattie> tyhicks: yes, I'd like to confirm that the buildds won't break before publishing.
<sbeattie> seems ... kinda important.
<tyhicks> agreed :)
<sbeattie> I need to coalesce some of the stuff I've written about pie into a wiki page for packagers.
<sbeattie> as well as sort out some of the failures being seen, and get some of my fixes sponsored.
<sbeattie> that will probably consume my week.
<sbeattie> tyhicks: you're up.
<tyhicks> I'm on community this week
<mdeslaur> sbeattie: it's been broken since after 10.04
<mdeslaur> sbeattie: at least, the source data is inaccurate
<sbeattie> mdeslaur: well, it doesn't backtrace anymore like it did in 14.04 for a while.
<mdeslaur> right, yeah
<tyhicks> I have 16.10 work planning to do
<tyhicks> I'll be helping sbeattie with the PIE by default build failure uploads (mostly sponsoring but may need to help out more as he's juggling two big updates)
<tyhicks> I have a number of code reviews to do (not MIRs)
<tyhicks> and I need to come up to speed more on some snappy related things like interfaces
<tyhicks> sarnold: you're up
<sarnold> I'm on bug triage this week
<sarnold> and I'd like to review john's apparmor patches that he posted last week
<sarnold> It might also be nice to engage in some serious yak shaving
<sarnold> that's it for me, chrisccoulson?
<chrisccoulson> I've got Firefox and Oxide updates to get out this week
<chrisccoulson> In addition to that, I need to spend some time on bug 1326697
<ubottu> bug 1326697 in Oxide "GN (Generate Ninja) is coming" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1326697
<chrisccoulson> Other than that, I'll be working on bugs that are targetted for the 1.16 release (I need to make that list this week)
<chrisccoulson> That's me done
<tyhicks> thanks!
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Highlighted packages
<tyhicks> The Ubuntu Security team will highlight some community-supported packages that might be good candidates for updating and or triaging. If you would like to help Ubuntu and not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so.
<tyhicks> See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details and if you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-security. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved.
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/python-requests-kerberos.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/w3af.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/node-marked.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/percona-xtrabackup.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/libxml-security-java.html
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Miscellaneous and Questions
<tyhicks> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
<doko> pie ... are any toolchain updates needed?
<doko> we fixed ocaml and ghc, anything else?
<tyhicks> sbeattie: do you know of anything?
<doko> sbeattie, could you give me a list of packages with static libs, which need no-change rebuilds?
<sbeattie> doko: yeah, I can do that.
<sbeattie> toolchain wise: bintuils, glibc will want rebuilds for sure.
<doko> ohh, didn't do glibc yet
<sbeattie> the 'check' package is another one that trips quite a few packages.
<sbeattie> well a few.
<sbeattie> I think the other toolchain issue I hit was go, but that should be addressed with the patch mwhudson sent upstream and has already been incorporated.
<tyhicks> mdeslaur, sbeattie, sarnold, ChrisCoulson, doko: Thanks!
<tyhicks> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Apr 25 17:00:55 2016 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2016/ubuntu-meeting.2016-04-25-16.38.moin.txt
<tyhicks> oops
<mdeslaur> thanks tyhicks
<tyhicks> didn't mean to cut things off
<sbeattie> tyhicks: heh, thanks. that's okay, the rest doesn't really need to be part of the meeting.
 * tyhicks nods
<sarnold> thanks tyhicks!
<BenC> o/
<rbasak> o/
<flexiondotorg> o/
<micahg> o/
<rbasak> How many is quorum? 4?
<flexiondotorg> cyphermox, You joining?
<sil2100> o/
<sil2100> (sorry for being late)
<cyphermox> ugh, sorry, I won't be able to stick around for the meeting
<rbasak> I count 4.5.
<infinity> #startmeeting DMB meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Apr 25 19:09:34 2016 UTC.  The chair is infinity. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | DMB meeting | Current topic:
<infinity> #topic Review actions from last meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | DMB meeting | Current topic: Review actions from last meeting
<infinity> cyphermox to make membership changes
<infinity> Iz done?
<cyphermox> yes, iz done.
<infinity> bdmurray to summarize meeting / send announcements
<infinity> That appears to have not been done since Sept 2015. :P
<infinity> Perhaps time to revisit team reports.
<infinity> DMB members who didn't consent to fill in feedback to Noskcaj
<infinity> ^-- Did people do this?
<BenC> I donât know what that is
<BenC> It was on the agenda last week, too.
<infinity> I missed the last meeting which is, I assume, where this action came up?
<BenC> Last meeting
<infinity> Oh.
<infinity> Well, does someone know what it means?  If not, we should strike it instead of carrying it.
<BenC> I think itâs left over from September.
<sil2100> I guess this was some leftover from the previous meetings? Like the old old?
<infinity> cyphermox: Any ideas?
<micahg> yeah, at this point it's a new DMB and he should reapply if he has people willing to endorse his application
<infinity> Check.
<infinity> I'll strike the action.
<BenC> So let it be written...
<cyphermox> infinity: indeed
<infinity> Moving on.
<infinity> flexiondotorg: You here?
<flexiondotorg> Present.
<infinity> #topic Martin Wimpress MATE PPU upload application
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | DMB meeting | Current topic: Martin Wimpress MATE PPU upload application
<infinity> flexiondotorg: Tell us all about MATE, yourself, your life histoy, and you'd cat's medical records.
<flexiondotorg> OK
<infinity> While slackers like me go read the application.
<flexiondotorg> MATE is the continuation of GNOME2.
<flexiondotorg> But updated to support modern technologies suchs as gsettings, systemd and GTK3+
<BenC> How many other people are involved in the project?
<flexiondotorg> I'm a MATE core team member and have been for several years now.
<flexiondotorg> I also am chief executive minion for MATE Desktop team.
<flexiondotorg> For MATE, about 6 regular core contriutors.
<BenC> Do you mentor contributors outside of the core?
<flexiondotorg> And about 20 somewhat regualr commiters.
<flexiondotorg> I do.
<infinity> flexiondotorg: So, at a quick glance, even without any nitpicking interview bits, I'd say PPU for the 7 packages you listed is probably a no-brainer, *but* I'd also argue you made the packageset way too small.
<flexiondotorg> I've mentored via GSoC
<infinity> flexiondotorg: What's your argument for not including the entire mate desktop environment in this?
 * BenC wondered that as well
<flexiondotorg> infinity, Orginally the package set included all of MATE.
<flexiondotorg> I was asked to reduce it.
<micahg> is this a packageset application or PPU?
<flexiondotorg> I maintain mATE in Debian.
<infinity> flexiondotorg: ORLY?  Who asked you to reduce it?
<flexiondotorg> So all of MATE is synced from Debian directly to Ubuntu without changes.
<infinity> I mean, I assume the DMB, but I clearly missed that meeting. :P
<flexiondotorg> infinity, I forget who asked.
<BenC> Is there an existing package set that 1 or more of the other core contributors has access to?
<flexiondotorg> But look at the wiki history, you'll see I removed loads.
<infinity> flexiondotorg: Yes, and that works well for you in the devel cycle, but you just signed up for a 3 year LTS, and you can't sync from Debian for that.
<flexiondotorg> Yes.
<flexiondotorg> When the freeze happens I make fixes in Debian and then requestsync those to Ubuntu.
<flexiondotorg> And that slow us up somewhat.
<infinity> Anyhow, I think we can break this into two topics so we don't get bogged down in more confusion and delays for you.
<sil2100> flexiondotorg: as per our IRC PM discussion, it's best to ask for more - if it's too much we would propose a smaller set then
<infinity> Does anyone have questions for Martin WRT the current package set request and his competencies?
<flexiondotorg> So if I was able to process those MATE syncrequests during freeze it would be a great help and also unburden the desktop, sponsors and release teams who I've leaned on quite a bit over the last 18 months.
<infinity> We'll attack the issue of the size of the set in a second.
<flexiondotorg> Should I propose the MATE Desktop package set now?
<infinity> Right, I don't see anyone stumbling over themselves to ask things.  So I'm doing this in two bits.
<BenC> Iâm good on competency and relevance of his application
<infinity> flexiondotorg: Sec. :P
<sil2100> Fine from my side, I already had opportunities to see flexiondotorg's work
<infinity> #startvote Create a MATE packgeset (based on the current set in the wiki) and give Martin Wimpress upload rights for it
<rbasak> I think flexiondotorg having driven the milestones speaks for itself wrt. his knowledge of the release cycle.
<BenC> +1
<infinity> #vote Create a MATE packgeset (based on the current set in the wiki) and give Martin Wimpress upload rights for it
<meetingology> Please vote on: Create a MATE packgeset (based on the current set in the wiki) and give Martin Wimpress upload rights for it
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
<rbasak> And with him maintaining in Debian, general upload access is a no-brainer. Together with his Ubuntu contributions.
<infinity> Better.
<infinity> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from infinity
<sil2100> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from sil2100
<BenC> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from BenC
<rbasak> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from rbasak
<infinity> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: Create a MATE packgeset (based on the current set in the wiki) and give Martin Wimpress upload rights for it
<meetingology> Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<micahg> +1
<infinity> micahg: We had quorum, you're too late. ;)
<infinity> Okay.  So, second knock-off item.
<infinity> #vote We believe the MATE packageset is probably too limited, vote to assign an action to Martin to propose a larger scope for review out-of-band or at the next meeting
<meetingology> Please vote on: We believe the MATE packageset is probably too limited, vote to assign an action to Martin to propose a larger scope for review out-of-band or at the next meeting
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
<infinity> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from infinity
<BenC> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from BenC
<sil2100> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from sil2100
<rbasak> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from rbasak
<sil2100> (would give that to him already personally)
<rbasak> But presumably we can start with his list?
<infinity> rbasak: Right, hence why I did it in two votes.  We'll set him up ASAP with the current list, then expand it based on his proposed additions.
<infinity> Delaying the former for the latter seems pointless.
<rbasak> Yeah that's what I was asking. I didn't think we'd just voted for that :)
<micahg> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from micahg
<infinity> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: We believe the MATE packageset is probably too limited, vote to assign an action to Martin to propose a larger scope for review out-of-band or at the next meeting
<meetingology> Votes for:5 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<rbasak> But I think it's safe to assume that everyone's fine with it.
<rbasak> (or understood that already if it's just me)
<infinity> flexiondotorg: Alright, you have an action to bring us a better/expanded list.  But we'll hook you up with the tiny list after the meeting's done.
<flexiondotorg> Thanks everyone, that's brilliant :-)
<infinity> Oh, and I'll take an executive action to make this retroactive to xenial, so you're not stuck mainintaining an LTS you can't upload to. :P
<BenC> flexiondotorg: Congrats
<flexiondotorg> infinity, That's even more perfect.
<rbasak> flexiondotorg: what took you so long? :-)
<sil2100> ;)
<flexiondotorg> rbasak, The DMB was on hiatus ;-)
<infinity> #action infinity to update xenial and yakkety for ubuntu-mate packageset and flexiondotorg's upload privs to same
<meetingology> ACTION: infinity to update xenial and yakkety for ubuntu-mate packageset and flexiondotorg's upload privs to same
<infinity> #action flexiondotorg to bring us an expanded MATE packageset proposal
<meetingology> ACTION: flexiondotorg to bring us an expanded MATE packageset proposal
<flexiondotorg> Thanks everyone.
<sil2100> yw, congratulations!
<infinity> Okay, and due to both the lack of psusi in the meeting and the lack of endorsements on his application, we'll defer him to another time.
<infinity> #topic AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | DMB meeting | Current topic: AOB
<infinity> Next chair is BenC.
<infinity> With a backup of sil2100
<sil2100> Uh oh!
<sil2100> Ok
<infinity> I'd like to propose that someone actually fix the (&(*!%%! fridge calendar to (a) accurately represent the meeting times and (b) invite everyone with their preferred calendar email address (adam.conrad@canonical.com for me, please)
<infinity> Anyone want to take that action?
<sil2100> I could take care of that - never did anything to the fridge before
<infinity> I might actually show up to meetings if my phone yells at me.
<sil2100> Besides opening up for food and drinks
<infinity> sil2100: It's not too hard to sort out.  Go nuts.
<infinity> The key is knowing the meeting times.
<infinity> Which I clearly don't.
<sil2100> Ok, add an action item so I don't forget
<infinity> #action sil2100 to fix the Fridge calendar to list DMB meetings at the right times and invite the current members
<meetingology> ACTION: sil2100 to fix the Fridge calendar to list DMB meetings at the right times and invite the current members
<sil2100> Thanks o/
<infinity> sil2100: For Canonical employees, invite first.last@canonical (unless someone requests otherwise), since those are our work calendars.  You might have to ask the non-canonical people for their preferred annoyance address for gcal invites.
<micahg> do we want to take a poll for meeting times for the new board
<infinity> We're 4 NA and 2 EU, and no APAC?
<infinity> Shouldn't be hard to just find one time that works for all 6.
<infinity> Unless we want to keep alternating to make it easier on applicants.
<rbasak> I'm happy with the current timing. Evening for me isn't great but presumably that'd be a bit harsh.
<micahg> I think that alternation is for applicants, yes
<rbasak> So alternating works for me.
<infinity> Kay.  I'm not picky, so long as I have reminders. ;)
<BenC> benmcollins13@gmail.com for my cal
<rbasak> first.last@ubuntu.com for me please.
<infinity> rbasak: ubuntu.com, really?  Not canonical.com?  Do you run two calendars?
<infinity> (weirdo)
<rbasak> Oh, good point. I have no idea where calendar invites actually go when sent by email.
<rbasak> @canonical.com is my gcal.
<meetingology> rbasak: Error: "canonical.com" is not a valid command.
<infinity> Right, canonical.com then. :P
<rbasak> But I'm not sure sent-by-email invites work anyway.
<infinity> rbasak: Right, the Fridge is more magic than sent-by-email.
<rbasak> Ah, OK. Thanks.
<infinity> micahg: Preferred email for gcal invites, for sil2100 to sort?  The rest of us can just use @canonical.
<infinity> And I'd like to close the meeting.
<infinity> Which I'll do if no one has AOAOB.
<infinity> Going once.
<infinity> Twice.
<infinity> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Apr 25 19:38:50 2016 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2016/ubuntu-meeting.2016-04-25-19.09.moin.txt
<sil2100> o/
<sil2100> Thanks everyone
<rbasak> Thanks for chairing infinity
<flexiondotorg> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MartinWimpress/DeveloperApplicationPPU
<flexiondotorg> Updated, please can you add me to the next DMB agenda?
<infinity> flexiondotorg: We can probably review out of band, it shouldn't need quorum.
<infinity> flexiondotorg: But let's revist between now and then and if no one manages to do it OOB, we'll put it on the agenda.
<flexiondotorg> infinity, OK
#ubuntu-meeting 2016-04-26
<jose> infinity: if they don't have access, they could nicely request the news team and I'm sure they'd be happy to move it almost immediately
<teward> o/
<jgrimm> o/
<jgrimm> i believe smoser is up for running meeting, rbasak out today
<smoser> o/
<smoser> hey everyone
<teward> o/
<matsubara> o/
<smb> o/
<cpaelzer> o/
<smoser> #startmeeting ubuntu-server-team
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Apr 26 16:03:48 2016 UTC.  The chair is smoser. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:
<smoser> seriously smoser get with it. 3 minutes late
<smoser> ok.
<smoser> #topic Review ACTION points from previous meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<smoser> we have none listed from april 17 meeting.
<smoser> thats good.
<smoser> #topic Xenial Development
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Xenial Development
<smoser> #topic Yakkety Development
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Yakkety Development
<jgrimm> there we go. :)
<smoser> now is the time to be the envy of all your friends
<smoser> $ lsb_release -sc
<smoser> yakkety
<jgrimm> do-release-upgrade -d doesn't get it for you yet tho?
<smoser> sed 's,xenial,yakkety,' -i /etc/apt/sources.list
<smoser> the archive just opened
<smoser> so now is time to get stuff in that didn't get into xenial
<jgrimm> ah. cool, tx
<smoser> 2 days ago i wasn't able to make a schroot because debootstrap didnt work yet.
<jgrimm> well, and just to start merge/syncs in general.  rather than the mad rush we had for x
<smoser> dont know if that is sorted now or not.
<smoser> yes, please merge, add features. have fun.
<smoser> #subtopic Release Bugs
<jgrimm> for awareness https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/systemd/+bug/1567744
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1567744 in systemd (Ubuntu) "USB NICs get too long name for ifupdown aliases" [Medium,Triaged]
<smoser> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-x-tracking-bug-tasks.html#ubuntu-server
 * smoser confirms the cloud-init bug
<smoser> anyone feel like grabbing one of those ?
<smoser> ok. well, please do take a gander at that.
<smoser> we want to be on top of xenial bugs and get those fixed.
<smoser> #topic Server & Cloud Bugs (caribou)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Server & Cloud Bugs (caribou)
<cpaelzer> and a reminder to jgrimms mentioning of Y - archive Y open means now you have to make a Y upload as well for your SRUs to allow them to migrate from proposed
<caribou> nothing specific to report
<caribou> smoser: ^
<smoser> k.
<smoser> sorr.
<smoser> movingon
<smoser> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team
<smoser> anyone have questions here?
<smoser> ok. lets move on
<smoser> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee, arges)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee, arges)
<smb> Nothing (new) to see here. We can move along...
<smoser> #topic Upcoming Call For Papers
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Upcoming Call For Papers
<jgrimm> LinuxCon NA closes today
<smoser> anyone have anythign
<smoser> cool.
<smoser> #topic Ubuntu Server Team Events
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Ubuntu Server Team Events
<smoser> openstack summit is going on right now
<smoser> anything else coming up ?
<jgrimm> not that i'm able to scrounge up quickly at least
<smoser> #topic Open Discussion
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Open Discussion
<jgrimm> i propose skipping next week, as many of us will be sprinting
<smoser> if you did somethign in the past 2 years and it landed into xenial
<smoser> now is a good time to blog about that
<jgrimm> smoser, or write up some documentation on cloud-init networking even
<smoser> and tell people how you can use ubuntu xenial and why it is super whiz bangdiggity
<smoser> well that'd be good too
<smoser> jgrimm, oh. were you offering to write said doc ?
<smoser> :)
<jgrimm> :)
<smoser> #topic Announce next meeting date, time and chair
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Announce next meeting date, time and chair
<smoser> lets go ahead and say 2 weeks from today
<cpaelzer> not next week with so many travelling?
<cpaelzer> ack
<smoser> same time same place.
<jgrimm> yes, unless there is objection and someone volunteering??
<jgrimm> going once, twice, ...
<jgrimm> and make it so, smoser
<smoser> Tue May 10 16:00 UTC 2016
<smoser> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Apr 26 16:21:31 2016 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2016/ubuntu-meeting.2016-04-26-16.03.moin.txt
<jgrimm> thanks smoser
<avellis> hello
#ubuntu-meeting 2016-04-28
 * slangasek waves
 * infinity grunts
<slangasek> close enough
 * barry coughs
 * pitti clears his throat
<slangasek> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Apr 28 15:01:56 2016 UTC.  The chair is slangasek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Lightning round
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Lightning round
<slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e barry doko bdmurray slangasek caribou infinity sil2100 robru cyphermox pitti tdaitx xnox chiluk)
<slangasek> sil2100 xnox chiluk slangasek doko cyphermox pitti robru infinity caribou bdmurray tdaitx barry
<slangasek> no sil2100 at the moment, so xnox ?
<slangasek> hah, no, xnox is off today
<slangasek> chiluk:
<chiluk> Sorry I worked on no "user" issues this week resulted in valid public launchpad case work this week.
<chiluk> -done-
<chiluk> it was a depressing week
<slangasek> chiluk: do we need to send you more users that file valid bugs?
<pitti> I think we have two left
<cyphermox> slangasek: I think chiluk is looking for stuff to do, he could do the debian-installer merge?
<pitti> (per minute or so)
<chiluk> lol..
<slangasek> heh
<cyphermox> :)
<doko> flash-kernel is another good one
<slangasek>  * release week, congrats on 16.04!
<slangasek>  * tried to SRU a pre-dependency into sysv-rc for xenial to remove some conffile prompting, got LP: #1573240 for my trouble
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1573240 in sysvinit (Ubuntu) "package initscripts 2.88dsf-59.2ubuntu2.1 failed to install/upgrade: pre-dependency problem - not installing initscripts" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1573240
<slangasek>  * triaged some incoming reports of upgrade failures against shim-signed, so far none of them appear to be (fixable) bugs in the SecureBoot stack
<cyphermox> doko: flash-kernel is next on my list.
<slangasek>  * merges for yakkety
<slangasek>   * taking a few minutes every day to try to absorb the name 'yakkety'
<slangasek>  * sprint prep
<slangasek> I'm TIL on flash-kernel, how is it on any of your lists? :)
<slangasek> (done)
<cyphermox> slangasek: if you want to do it I won't complain :)
<doko> - archive opening
<doko> - icu, libpng, boost transitions
<doko> - more transitions, ftbfs fixes, merges, ...
<doko> - GCC 6.1 rc2 and GCC 6.1 release
<doko> - openjdk-8 updates
<doko> (done)
<cyphermox> - console-setup merge
<cyphermox> - trivial watchdog service fix (bug LP: #1559468)
<cyphermox> - fix ltrace on ppc64el (bug LP: #1398143)
<cyphermox> - debugging NM wifi issues
<cyphermox> - fixing klibc ipconfig DHCPREQUEST calls (bug LP: #1327412)
<cyphermox> - all the SRUs for Secure Boot
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1559468 in watchdog (Ubuntu Wily) "Missing single-quote in watchdog.service prevents service from working correctly" [Low,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1559468
<cyphermox> - porting mokutil and efivar to precise & trusty
<cyphermox> (done)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1398143 in ltrace (Ubuntu Trusty) "Ltrace is broken on ppc64el" [Low,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1398143
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1327412 in klibc (Debian) "Delay during PXE Boot, IP-Config gives up" [Unknown,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1327412
<pitti> autopkgtest:
<pitti>  - Add option to set more appropriate parallel= build option in LXC (#1569750)
<pitti>  - Add workaround for broken PTMU in Canonical's network (#1572026)
<pitti>  - Make "git clone" more robust against temporary network glitches (#1571979)
<pitti>  - Automate setup of armf LXD test controller and slaves in Scalingstack; now running, but failing an awful lot due to kernel bug (#1531768)
<slangasek> oh, forgot to list that I've also been working to clean up the 'unsubscribed' package list on http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/m-r-package-team-mapping.html#unsubscribed by finding people to blame for these
<pitti>  - create watchdog for auto-hard-rebooting arm64 instances, as a bandaid for the above
<pitti>  - various bug fixes in adt-run
<pitti>  - Merge debci with upstream git
<pitti>  - Set up configs, cloud images, and LXC containers for yakkety, some more intense maintenance during the yakkety opening flood
<pitti> FTBFS fixes: dict-moby-thesaurus, grep, libvigraimpex, mako, python-configglue, ros-robot-model, ubuntu-drivers-common
<pitti> apport: Fix invalid key name generation in hookutils (#1566975)
<pitti> apt: fix bad pre-depends handling, breaks upgrades a lot (#1560797)
<pitti> casper: Suppress auto-activation of swap partitons in live session (#1552539)
<pitti> ubiquity: Fix ubiquity-dm startup failure (#1570901)
<pitti> juju-core: Investigate test failure with mwhudson, propose fixes (#1571082)
<pitti> Debug installer swap space creation failure, come up with bandaid in casper (#1552539)
<pitti> lxc: Debug autopkgtest failure and recommend simple fix (#1572188)
<pitti> lxd: Investigate/fix looping startup failure (#1569698)
<pitti> systemd: Fix enabling of linked units (#1563590), fix lightdm flakiness in boot-smoke test (#1571673), fix wrong device naming with ibmveth (#1561096), fix USB network device names with randomized MACs (#1574483)
<pitti> Investigate ssh installation failure in QA desktop tests, fixed in UTAH now (#1554266)
<pitti> Review proposed openssl FIPS change, landed right before Xenial release (#1553309)
<pitti> merges: systemd, init-system-helpers, debhelper, gnome-color-manager
<pitti> Set up apport retracers and ddebs for yakkety
<pitti> tons of bug triage from incoming bug flood after xenial release
<pitti> ~ end ~
<infinity> robru?
<pitti> I'd say timeout and infinity goes on?
<slangasek> oh yes, robru is out, sorry
<infinity>  - Released xenial
<infinity>  - Opened yakkety
<infinity>  - Lots of work related to opening yakkety (LP, chroots, snakefruit, etc)
<infinity>  - Start on yakkety merges
<infinity>  - Upgrade buildds to xenial final (s390x) and trusty+lts-xenial (ppc/arm64)
<infinity>  - Fix some FTBFS fallout from the -fPIE switch
<infinity>  - Upgrade-related SRU work for trusty->xenial
<infinity> (done)
<slangasek> caribou:
<caribou> shortr week (one day off) :
<caribou> Bugfix :
<caribou> - multipath coredumps
<caribou> - Hash mismatch issues with debian archives when using mirror:
<caribou> - network kdump bugfix
<caribou> (done)
<chiluk> pitti: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PtTC3pGBjs4
<infinity> pitti: Did you ever figure out how you accidentally deleted ddebs and get switched over to the new key?
<tdaitx> bdmurray: is out as well... he sent his status to the ML
<tdaitx> = Security update for OpenJDK 7
<tdaitx> * Compared my broken hotspot patch to IcedTea's working one to understand what I missed
<tdaitx> * Packaged IcedTea 2.6.6, updating OpenJDK 7 to 7u101-2.6.6; had to disable arm32 jit as hotspot security update broke it
<tdaitx> * Backported OpenJDK 7u101 from Wily to Trusty and Precise; provided the packages to the security team
<tdaitx> * Investigated arm32 jit to understand why it broke and - hopefully - how to fix it; the hotspot security update introduced a new bytecode into the Bytecode enum, but the arm32 jit uses hardcoded bytecode values and addresses all over the place
<tdaitx> = TCK
<tdaitx> * Back to testing on Xenial; testing scripts on a clean environment (newly deployed lxc agents and hosts)
<tdaitx>    - Kerberos setup was broken, fixed so it works on both Xenial and Trusty
<tdaitx>    - Pulseaudio was not starting up; fixed that; unable to load/change modules; fixed
<tdaitx>    - investigating why a bunch tests are now failing
<tdaitx> * Once more going through TCK docs to ensure that both scripts and environment are in compliance with the requirements
<tdaitx> * Tidying up JIT/configuration template
<pitti> infinity: yes I did, and that's fixed now
<tdaitx> = Other
<tdaitx> * Tried my hand again at backporting OpenJDK 9 HiDPI fix to OpenJDK 8, still not clear how to backport some changesets (LP: #1497816); kind of a personal issue to me as I have a HiDPI display
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1497816 in openjdk-7 (Ubuntu) "No support for HDPI/retina displays in Java 7/8" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1497816
<tdaitx> * Upgraded to Xenial; planning move to ZFS
<tdaitx> * Getting used to loud noises after neighbors decided to renovate the whole apartment
<tdaitx> * Went through a few bugs
<infinity> pitti: \o/
<barry> tdaitx: done?
<tdaitx> (done)
<tdaitx> sorry =)
<barry> shaving the yak
<barry> dirtbike 0.3-2; python-pip 8.1.1-2 (debian bug #821014 and debian bug #814292); debian bug #821223 (virtualenv _markerlib); debian bug #821442 (schroot broken);
<ubottu> Debian bug 821014 in src:python-pip "Recent versions of setuptools no longer has or needs _markerlib" [Normal,Fixed] http://bugs.debian.org/821014
<ubottu> Debian bug 814292 in python-pip "Missing python-setuptools dependency" [Normal,Fixed] http://bugs.debian.org/814292
<barry> various other archivy things for 16.04
<ubottu> Debian bug 821223 in virtualenv "Unable to create a virtualenv: invalid requirement: '_markerlib'" [Grave,Fixed] http://bugs.debian.org/821223
<ubottu> Debian bug 821442 in src:linux "overlay fs: chmod fails (Operation not permitted) on chowned files" [Important,Fixed] http://bugs.debian.org/821442
<barry> lots of playing (read: bug reports :) around w/juju 2 and charms; si-server charm
<barry> pycon 2016 language summit planning
<barry> LP: #1572416 verification-done
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1572416 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu Xenial) "do-release-upgrade crashes in Greek locale" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1572416
<barry> syncpackage bzr-fastimport back into ubuntu
<barry> debian bug #822750 (unreproducible)
<ubottu> Debian bug 822750 in python3-pip "python3-pip: Missing deps on packaging, distlib, ..." [Normal,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/822750
<barry> --done--
<slangasek> ok, any questions?
<slangasek> sounds like there aren't :)
<slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<slangasek> anything else today?
<slangasek> anyone have topics for UOS that they need help getting scheduled?
<pitti> I filed https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-y-replace-upstart today
<slangasek> or topics for next week's sprint that they need help getting scheduled? :)
<pitti> apparently the first-ever blueprint for that uos
<slangasek> hah
<slangasek> pitti: you've invited appropriately desktoppy people to the session?
<pitti> slangasek: seb128 and xnox so far, I think I'll grab Laney too
<slangasek> sounds good
<slangasek> maybe invite willcooke also?
<pitti> sure, I'll mark him as non-essential
<pitti> (done)
<pitti> but that's just boring tech debt, nothing new an exciting really
<infinity> That's pretty exciting, IMO.
<infinity> Given that upstart is actively bitrotting.
 * infinity glares at the build failures.
<pitti> another topic that I have on the shelf somewhere is to enable DNSSEC early in the cycle and get some experience with it
<pitti> (we'd disable it for the release as there's still some known-broken issues)
<slangasek> DNSSEC by default?
<pitti> infinity: yeah, that's my main concern
<slangasek> yes, we also have to get the phone off of upstart at some point
<pitti> yes; there was some heavy work in resolvd recently to do that, and get along with the common quirks of routers, etc.
<slangasek> doesn't seem like that's happening as part of the phone move to 16.04
<barry> doko: we probably *won't* do a 3.6 transition this cycle i'm thinking
<slangasek> (could be done with updates to their packages in the overlay ppa, but I don't think it's going to fit in scope)
<pitti> this wouldn't be a released feature for now, and I don't know much about it, but if there's interest we can discuss this
<cyphermox> pitti: DNSSEC> should be doable to play with it some more, we already have dnsmasq on the desktop...
<doko> barry, looks a bit early
<barry> doko: let's leave it for zesty zebra
<slangasek> pitti: interesting.  DNSSEC by default is a big change, so I'd hope to see a lot of eyeballs on this
<slangasek> zippy zebra
<slangasek> next cycle is going to be focused on benchmarks
<slangasek> ;)
<pitti> ooh, bootspeed again? :)
<infinity> Ahh, bootspeed, the most useless benchmark ever.
<slangasek> bootspeed matters for client UX
<infinity> "My computer was up for 3 weeks, but thank god you saved me 5 seconds on reboot with the last kernel upgrade."
<slangasek> and though we haven't paid attention to it on the desktop, it has mattered on the phone
<infinity> slangasek: Oh, I understand all sorts of reasons why it's "important", but I still have opinions. ;)
<cyphermox> what about reviewing what logs, how verbosely, etc. ?
<slangasek> it's a "benchmark" in the same sense that mouse cursor responsiveness is a "benchmark"
<pitti> also, booting containers, VMs etc. is actually quite common
<slangasek> cyphermox: are you suggesting a UOS session?
<cyphermox> slangasek: that too
<cyphermox> also, crap, I think I just volunteered :)
<doko> speed matters? lets turn off pie again
<infinity> Pie also matters.  Because I'm hungry.
<pitti> no, pie is good!
<pitti> turn off the broccoli instead
<doko> no pie is good?
<pitti> and commas matter too, FWIW :)
<slangasek> right then ;)
<slangasek> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Apr 28 15:30:54 2016 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2016/ubuntu-meeting.2016-04-28-15.01.moin.txt
<slangasek> thanks, all!
<pitti> thanks everyone, see you next week!
<caribou> slangasek: thanks!
<tdaitx> thanks all!
<barry> thanks!
#ubuntu-meeting 2017-04-24
<tyhicks> hello
<tyhicks> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Apr 24 16:31:12 2017 UTC.  The chair is tyhicks. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<tyhicks> The meeting agenda can be found at:
<tyhicks> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly stand-up report
<tyhicks> jdstrand: you're up
<mdeslaur> \o
<tyhicks> mdeslaur: go ahead (we'll circle back)
<mdeslaur> I'm on triage this week
<mdeslaur> I'm currently testing samba and qemu updates for zesty
<mdeslaur> after that, I'll be doing mysql updates since we're running late on them
<mdeslaur> after that, I have nss and ca-certificates updates planned
<mdeslaur> that's probably my next couple of weeks
<mdeslaur> sbeattie: you're up
<sbeattie> I'm in the happy place this week
<sbeattie> I'm working on libxslt updates
<sbeattie> I will have some kernel USNs to write
<sbeattie> I expect to get handed some openjdk packages to test and publish this week
<sbeattie> There's some apparmor things I want to look at, and some qrt things to fix as well.
<sbeattie> That's probably my week
<sbeattie> tyhicks: over to you.
<tyhicks> I'm in the happy place this week
<tyhicks> I am coordinating an embargoed issue
<tyhicks> I still need to sponsor mozjs38 security update from my community duties last week
<tyhicks> I have sprint prep
<tyhicks> and I'd like to pick up my seccomp work again
<tyhicks> short week - off on Friday
<tyhicks> jjohansen: go ahead
<jjohansen> I am continuing my work on upstreaming apparmor, I need to finish chasing down a bug in the securityfs interface work and get that posted, and push out a kernel for testing the fix for bug 1669611, which means I can repush the fix for bug 1660846
<ubottu> bug 1669611 in linux (Ubuntu Zesty) "Regression in 4.4.0-65-generic causes very frequent system crashes" [Critical,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1669611
<ubottu> bug 1660846 in linux (Ubuntu Yakkety) "apparmor leaking securityfs pin count" [Undecided,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1660846
<jdstrand> tyhicks: (sorry I got distracted by an irc ocnversation)
<jjohansen> I also have queued up several other fixes that I should SRU this week 1679704, 1678048
<jjohansen> and a couple others I don't have bugs for yet
<jjohansen> then I can poke at more of the checkpatch cleanups I need for the next upstream push
<jjohansen> I think that is it for me, sarnold you are up
<sarnold> I'm on community this week; still plugging away at shadow and then the MIRs..
<sarnold> that's it for me, chrisccoulson?
<chrisccoulson> I've got thunderbird and chromium updates to do this week
<chrisccoulson> Also, on my non-oxide backlog of tasks, I've got an item to re-automate the uploading of firefox debug symbols to mozilla's symbol server, which I plan to do this week
<chrisccoulson> And I've got some firefox build failures to fix too
<chrisccoulson> I think that's me done
<ratliff> I'm on bug triage
<ratliff> I will be working predominantly on sprint prep and some analysis work that falls out of that work.
<ratliff> jdstrand: you're up
<jdstrand> last week was dominated by PR reviews, store reviews and responding to snappy forum topics. One notable topic I offered to start in an effort to get attention on the topic was https://forum.snapcraft.io/t/snappy-and-users-and-groups/331
<jdstrand> I did manage to resurrect the various outstanding seccomp arg filtering branches (as planned) but still have some work to do there. I did discuss wayland interfaces a bit and coordinated with the desktop team on that work, but didn't get much farther on my bits. I submitted some PRs for various policy fixes
<jdstrand> I did not work on pam/stacking docs (no time)
<jdstrand> this week I plan to:
<jdstrand> - continue various ongoing and new snappy PR reviews (notably, bash completion, dbus session services, snap-update-ns and migrate Xauthority, but more as needed)
<jdstrand> - various policy fixes
<jdstrand> - keep plugging away at seccomp arg filtering (specifically fix the mknod branch and pick up the uid/gid branch)
<jdstrand> - wayland/gnome/plasma interfaces as have time
<jdstrand> - pam/stacking docs if have time
<jdstrand> that's it from me
<ratliff> back to you, tyhicks
<tyhicks> thanks
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Highlighted packages
<tyhicks> The Ubuntu Security team will highlight some community-supported packages that might be good candidates for updating and or triaging. If you would like to help Ubuntu and not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so.
<tyhicks> See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details and if you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-security. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved.
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/xrdp.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/efl.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/tqdm.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/mariadb-10.1.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/tcptrack.html
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Miscellaneous and Questions
<tyhicks> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
<tyhicks> I have one topic
<tyhicks> mdeslaur, sbeattie, sarnold: we need to do https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/ReleaseCycle#Devel_Opens
<tyhicks> mdeslaur, sbeattie, sarnold: any takers?
<sarnold> sure, I'll grab it
<tyhicks> thanks sarnold :)
<mdeslaur> IT'S A TRAP!
<mdeslaur> ;)
<sarnold> :D
<sarnold> there's that one 'update the pretend spreadsheet in vim' step that always baffles me
<mdeslaur> yes, that was pretty much the trap I was referring to :)
<tyhicks> heh
<tyhicks> jdstrand, mdeslaur, sbeattie, jjohansen, sarnold, ChrisCoulson, ratliff: Thanks!
<sarnold> I seem to recall thinking that it'd be easier to figure it out and then write down a macro for vim :)
<tyhicks> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Apr 24 16:50:42 2017 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2017/ubuntu-meeting.2017-04-24-16.31.moin.txt
<sarnold> thanks tyhicks :)
<jdstrand> tyhicks: thanks! :)
<ratliff> thank you, tyhicks!
<jjohansen> thanks tyhicks
<mdeslaur> thanks tyhicks
<mdeslaur> sarnold: if you decide to fix it by writing a vim macro instead of actually fixing it not to use the insane fake spreadsheet, I'll slap you :P
<sarnold> mdeslaur: so... a python program to drive vim then?
 * sarnold runs
<mdeslaur> sarnold: don't make me figure out a way to get you banned from starbucks
<sbeattie> hehe
<sil2100> o/
<micahg> o/
<sil2100> No applicants for today I see, I assume it'll be a rather fast meeting
<bdmurray> o/
<rbasak> o/
<sil2100> I guess we have quorum, although I don't see any voting happening today
<bdmurray> I saw cyphermox in the other room
<sil2100> Anyone up for chairing? Or should I do it?
<cyphermox> up to you
<sil2100> #startmeeting DMB
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Apr 24 19:08:26 2017 UTC.  The chair is sil2100. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | DMB Meeting | Current topic:
<sil2100> #topic Review of previous action items
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | DMB Meeting | Current topic: Review of previous action items
<sil2100> Ok, seeing the list, I suppose almost all are certainly done, let me only address those that are 'in doubt' on the Agenda
<sil2100> rbasak to add slashd to the new SRU-UPLOADERS team (carried-over, pending TB action)  <- this is done, right?
<sil2100> I saw an e-mail mentioning that
<rbasak> I believe it's done.
<rbasak> I'd like to know from slashd if it actually works. I'm not sure he's tried yet.
<sil2100> Ok, let's try to get in touch with him about that then
<rbasak> My action for Aron is still outstanding. He clarified what he needs for me. I now need to look again.
<slashd> rbasak, sil2100, I haven't tried yet, was really busy, but will give it a try soon
<sil2100> rbasak to sort Aron's request <- I saw some movement here but I suppose it's in progress
<sil2100> rbasak: thanks!
<sil2100> slashd: ok, give us a sign once you have a moment
<slashd> sil2100, sure tks
<sil2100> All the other action items seem to be done
<sil2100> Moving on... no candidates, so:
<sil2100> #topic Outstanding mailing list requests to assign
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | DMB Meeting | Current topic: Outstanding mailing list requests to assign
<sil2100> I didn't see any, but just wanted to make sure
<sil2100> Were there any requests that needed our attention besides Aron's?
<rbasak> I don't see anything
<sil2100> Then moving on ;)
<sil2100> #topic AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | DMB Meeting | Current topic: AOB
<sil2100> This seems to be a quick meeting, anything to discuss?
<sil2100> I'll make sure to update the agenda right after the meeting
<sil2100> So that it's in a clean state
<sil2100> Ok, I assume no business here either
<sil2100> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Apr 24 19:15:32 2017 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2017/ubuntu-meeting.2017-04-24-19.08.moin.txt
<sil2100> Thanks everyone!
 * sil2100 goes AFK now
#ubuntu-meeting 2017-04-25
<powersj> o/
<dpb1> hola
<slashd> o/
<ahasenack> o/
<rharper> o/
<rbasak> o/
<rharper> dpb1: don't forget to raise your hand before you speak =P
<cpaelzer> o/
<powersj> ok this looks good, away we go!
<powersj> #startmeeting ubuntu-server-team
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Apr 25 16:01:19 2017 UTC.  The chair is powersj. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:
<powersj> #topic Review ACTION points from previous meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<powersj> rbasak, powersj, cpaelzer to draft mysql triage response page like nginx has (carried over)
<powersj> Continue to carry over?
<cpaelzer> carry further
<powersj> #action rbasak, powersj, cpaelzer to draft mysql triage response page like nginx has (carried over)
<meetingology> ACTION: rbasak, powersj, cpaelzer to draft mysql triage response page like nginx has (carried over)
<cpaelzer> I actually wanted to write yesterday, but the page is in lockdown
<powersj> smoser to write a release notes entry on cloud-init (ds-identify)
<cpaelzer> several relogings didn't fix it
<nacc> o/ sorry
<powersj> #info smoser completed release note entry for cloud-init
<powersj> nacc to write a release notes entry on ipv6 netboot
<nacc> powersj: carry forward :/
<powersj> ok :)
<powersj> #action nacc to write a release notes entry on ipv6 netboot
<meetingology> ACTION: nacc to write a release notes entry on ipv6 netboot
<powersj> nacc to write a server guide entry on ipv6 netboot
<dpb1> o/
<rbasak> cpaelzer: perhaps follow up with IS if it remains stuck?
<nacc> powersj: same
<powersj> #action nacc to write a server guide entry on ipv6 netboot
<meetingology> ACTION: nacc to write a server guide entry on ipv6 netboot
<powersj> rharper to write a server guide entry on v2 yaml support in cloud-init
<cpaelzer> rbasak: is wiki handled via IS - yes if it is still stuck next time I come there I'll do so
<rharper> powersj: carry
<powersj> #action rharper to write a server guide entry on v2 yaml support in cloud-init
<meetingology> ACTION: rharper to write a server guide entry on v2 yaml support in cloud-init
<powersj> rharper to write a release notes entry on v2 yaml support in cloud-init
<powersj> same?
<rharper> same
<powersj> #action rharper to write a release notes entry on v2 yaml support in cloud-init
<meetingology> ACTION: rharper to write a release notes entry on v2 yaml support in cloud-init
<powersj> #action powersj to update copy and paste commands for IRC meeting to say artful
<meetingology> ACTION: powersj to update copy and paste commands for IRC meeting to say artful
<powersj> I'm taking that one ^
<rharper> when I fix up my network-doc branch and it lands in cloud-init, I can point to the ReadTheDocs entry
<powersj> anything else?
<rbasak> cpaelzer: yes - managed by IS
<powersj> #topic Zesty Development
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Zesty Development
<powersj> One last time... anything for zesty?
<rharper> powersj: there was a request to update the paste commands for SRU members, I did that last week
<powersj> rharper: thx
<powersj> closing out zesty in 3...2.... 1...
<powersj> #topic Artful Development
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Artful Development
<powersj> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArtfulAardvark/ReleaseSchedule
<nacc> importer should be running for the merges -- i think i'm going to do a server all run later today (it will take a day or two, i expect)
<powersj> #info nacc: importer running for merges, will take day or two
<cpaelzer> we should identify any merges that we intentionally want to do late to pick the next versiosn
<dpb1> how long does it take end to end?
<cpaelzer> I'm currently in touch with HW manufacturers to clairfy on qmeu/libvirt
<nacc> dpb1: how long does the importer take?
<dpb1> yes
<cpaelzer> but if others have similar constraints we can make them clear on our "merge schedule"
<nacc> dpb1: not predictable -- i think smoser ran it last in this way?
<smoser> man
<nacc> dpb1: i would guess several days to import the entire history for 850 or so packages
<nacc> although we've imported 300+ already
<dpb1> ok, if we don't know its fine, just curious.
<nacc> so maybe less now
<dpb1> k
<nacc> dpb1: speed hasn't been a priority :)
<dpb1> :)
<ahasenack> was it run for zesty in the same way?
<nacc> ahasenack: no
<nacc> ahasenack: for zesty it was done by hand when someone asked for a srckpkg to be imported
<nacc> by myself, rbasak or smoser
<dpb1> brave new world!
<nacc> yeah
<rbasak> I noticed one bit that's slow that I have code to speed up, FWIW.
<rbasak> Just not had a need to address it yet.
<nacc> rbasak: excellent, yeah, i was going to file a bug to do some profiling etc
<nacc> similar to what smoser had done before and looking at the @lru_cache stuff
<dpb1> nacc: I suspect the second run of it would be faster?
<nacc> dpb1: once we run the 'full import' of the archive (or our subset), subsequent runs will only pick up what is new
<dpb1> k
<powersj> do we need an action for cpaelzer to figure timeline of merges? any other merge work needing action items?
<nacc> and that is what the cron job does basically
<nacc> powersj: i don't think we need an explicit action
<powersj> ok :)
<nacc> powersj: but we probably do need to coordinate, etc.
<nacc> dpb1: we used to to do that via the blueprint
<nacc> and you can see the list of merges from z in that bp
<powersj> #subtopic blueprints
<nacc> so we might want to, at first, at least copy all those smae srcpkgs, unassigned to aa
<powersj> #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-aa-server-core
<cpaelzer> powersj: no action needed atm, but I'd say we need to coordinate the release in general
<powersj> #info cpaelzer nacc rbasak need to coordinate merges via blueprint
<cpaelzer> I'm not set on blueprint, gdoc, ... (millions of options) but some sort of who-does-what-when is needed
<nacc> powersj: thanks
<cpaelzer> thanks powersj
<dpb1> nacc: thoughts on using a board like trello instead of a blueprint?  we can still create a blueprint and link to it.
<smoser> dpb1 likes trello
<dpb1> s/nacc//
<cpaelzer> I actually thought just that dpb1 when I saw the curtin board
<cpaelzer> dpb1: you said those are public-read but write onyl to us right?
<dpb1> it can be public, we can assign owners, invite other people
<dpb1> yes
<nacc> as long as it's public, i don't particularly care
<cpaelzer> I used that for DPDK, I think it would be nice for many things except bug linking
<cpaelzer> or is that improved now?
<nacc> the blueprint sort of sucks
 * dpb1 volunteers for action to create a skeleton
<rbasak> Is there anything specific that trello will solve for us over blueprints?
<nacc> as it doesn't gate itself
<smoser> I do think we need to be careful on this. Ubuntu development takes place on Ubuntu.
<rbasak> I understand how much better trello could be - just wondering how it applies to our specific case.
<nacc> so we can both edit at the same time and things get lost
<nacc> smoser: +1
<dpb1> rbasak: saving my eyes is first on the list.
 * nacc would also be fine with a text file :)
<cpaelzer> turning away from LP is a bad thing more from the mood it represents than technically
<dpb1> rbasak: but it's not a hard line for me.
<smoser> and moving Ubuntu server development (or portions there-of) off launchpad makes that inconsistent with other Ubuntu developement.
<smoser> we're part of a larger thing here and consistency matters.
<rbasak> If we did blueprints properly, the status page would give us useful reporting.
<dpb1> are blueprints rotted or is it just ours?
<cpaelzer> rbasak: maybe we should do one properly, what did we miss last time to do so?
<dpb1> do any other groups use them?
 * cpaelzer <- no blueprint expert at all
<rbasak> cpaelzer: I think there are some pieces to set on the blueprint and then it appears properly on status.qa.ubuntu.com or wherever it was.
<cpaelzer> could we group items for months planned or any other timeline association?
<rharper> cpaelzer: ack;
<cpaelzer> so we see early when things slip?
<rbasak> blueprints can do milestones, yes.
<rbasak> And I believe status reports on that.
<rharper> dpb1: we've certainly used blueprints for server;  but it's mostly been a  task tracker (todo, inprogress, done) and less of a planner w.r.t when we expect it to complete (17.05, 17.06, etc)
<rharper> I think it's mostly matter of JFDI
<cpaelzer> which translates to who volunteers
<ahasenack> it's not a very rich content, you can't add comments to a task for example
<dpb1> you would use a bug for that
<ahasenack> saying where you are, what problems you encountered, how they were solved, ping someone else, etc
<dpb1> I'm guessing
<rharper> yes
<rharper> it's very typical to create a bug with the feature
<cpaelzer> ahasenack: actually every item usually carries a bug which can have details
<powersj> Can I propose that as rbasak nacc cpaelzer plan merges, they look into using blueprint more effectively?
<ahasenack> cpaelzer: ok
<rbasak> Sure
<cpaelzer> powersj: fair deal
<powersj> #info rbasak nacc cpaelzer will look into using blueprints more effectively
<nacc> yeah, and let's (probably) target 18.04 cycle for dtrt
<dpb1> OK, let's try it
<nacc> from the get-got that is
<powersj> #subtopic Release Bugs
<powersj> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-z-tracking-bug-tasks.html#ubuntu-server
<powersj> I don't see a -a version of that page yet
<ahasenack> how does a bug get into that list?
<nacc> powersj: i wonder if whoever owns reqorts needs to update their code :)
<powersj> do we know who does?
<nacc> no idea
<powersj> #action powersj to find out who owns bug tracking site, get artful link
<meetingology> ACTION: powersj to find out who owns bug tracking site, get artful link
<powersj> any comments on z bugs before moving on?
<nacc> ahasenack: i believe it might be automatic?
<ahasenack> I mean, via a tag? zesty task?
<dpb1> nacc: based on what
<dpb1> right
<powersj> tag of release
<nacc> ahasenack: as in, packages in the list of 'ubuntu-server' (which is a file) and then tag to that release
<nacc> *task to that release
<ahasenack> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ebtables/+bug/1645324 is in the list
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1645324 in ebtables (Ubuntu Trusty) "ebtables: Lock file handling has races" [Medium,In progress]
<powersj> oh it is task?
<ahasenack> has tags "patch" and "sts-sru-needed"
<ahasenack> ah, task
<nacc> powersj: the one i randomly looked at had no tags
<powersj> nacc: ok thx
<nacc> i would need to grep my irc logs to find where the package list
<powersj> nacc: that's just the package-team-mapping right?
<nacc> powersj: that'd be my guess, yes
<powersj> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/package-team-mapping.json
<dpb1> rharpers json?
<nacc> powersj: thanks, that's what i was looking for
<ahasenack> so these are essentially sru candidates
<ahasenack> at least they were nominated
<nacc> ahasenack: or active development candidates
<nacc> ahasenack: now they are SRU, yes ;0
<nacc> :)
<powersj> which brings us to....
<powersj> #topic Server & Cloud Bugs & SRU/Pending Uploads (slashd)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Server & Cloud Bugs & SRU/Pending Uploads (slashd)
<powersj> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-x-tracking-bug-tasks.html#ubuntu-server
<powersj> welcome slashd
<slashd> thanks powersj
<cpaelzer> powersj: thanks for driving this to not stall - we are all talkative today
<slashd> LP: #1356211 - (sosreport) cannot collect rotated syslog.1
<slashd>   - Series to SRU : trusty
<slashd>   - Owners : Louis Bouchard
<slashd> LP: #1366103 - (sosreport) sosreport doesn't collect all data from /etc/apparmor.d/
<slashd>   - Series to SRU : trusty
<powersj> :)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1356211 in sosreport (Ubuntu Trusty) "cannot collect rotated syslog.1" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1356211
<slashd>   - Owners : Louis Bouchard
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1366103 in sosreport (Ubuntu Trusty) "sosreport doesn't collect all data from /etc/apparmor.d/" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1366103
<slashd> LP: #1447695 - (sosreport) sosreport 3.2 does not collect systemd information
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1447695 in sosreport (Ubuntu Trusty) "sosreport 3.2 does not collect systemd information" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1447695
<slashd>   - Series to SRU : trusty
<slashd>   - Owners : Louis Bouchard
<slashd> LP: #1566508 - (sssd) autofs races with sssd on startup
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1566508 in sssd (Ubuntu Trusty) "autofs races with sssd on startup" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1566508
<slashd>   - Series to SRU : yakkety xenial trusty
<slashd>   - Verification : verification-failed-xenial verification-failed-yakkety verification-needed
<slashd>   - Owners : Victor Tapia
<slashd> LP: #1590799 - (nfs-utils) nfs-kernel-server does not start because of dependency failure
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1590799 in nfs-utils (Ubuntu Yakkety) "nfs-kernel-server does not start because of dependency failure" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1590799
<slashd>   - Series to SRU : yakkety
<slashd>   - Verification : verification-done-xenial verification-needed
<slashd>   - Owners : Rafael David Tinoco
<slashd> LP: #1602057 - (nova) [SRU] (libvirt) KeyError updating resources for some node, guest.uuid is not in BDM list
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1602057 in nova (Ubuntu Xenial) "[SRU] (libvirt) KeyError updating resources for some node, guest.uuid is not in BDM list" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1602057
<slashd>   - Series to SRU : xenial
<slashd>   - Owners : Edward Hope-Morley
<slashd> LP: #1605243 - (sosreport) iscsi initiator related configs and logs are not recorded
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1605243 in sosreport (Ubuntu Zesty) "iscsi initiator related configs and logs are not recorded" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1605243
<slashd>   - Series to SRU : yakkety xenial trusty zesty
<slashd>   - Owners : Louis Bouchard
<slashd> LP: #1614052 - (sosreport) SOSREPORT need to collect OPAL msglog
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1614052 in sosreport (Ubuntu Zesty) "SOSREPORT need to collect OPAL msglog" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1614052
<slashd>   - Series to SRU : yakkety xenial trusty zesty
<slashd>   - Owners : Louis Bouchard
<slashd> LP: #1636322 - (ceph) [SRU] upstart: ceph-all service starts before networks up
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1636322 in ceph (Ubuntu Trusty) "[SRU] upstart: ceph-all service starts before networks up" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1636322
<slashd>   - Series to SRU : xenial trusty
<slashd>   - Verification : verification-kilo-needed verification-liberty-needed
<slashd>   - Owners : James Page None
<cpaelzer> soon the server will ban you :-)
<slashd> LP: #1645324 - (ebtables) ebtables: Lock file handling has races
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1645324 in ebtables (Ubuntu Trusty) "ebtables: Lock file handling has races" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1645324
<slashd>   - Series to SRU : trusty zesty
<slashd>   - Owners : Dragan S.
<slashd> LP: #1648242 - (neutron) [SRU] Failure to retry update_ha_routers_states
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1648242 in neutron (Ubuntu Xenial) "[SRU] Failure to retry update_ha_routers_states" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1648242
<slashd>   - Series to SRU : xenial
<slashd>   - Owners : Edward Hope-Morley
<slashd> LP: #1654600 - (unattended-upgrades) unattended-upgrade-shutdown hangs when /var is a separate filesystem
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1654600 in unattended-upgrades (Ubuntu Zesty) "unattended-upgrade-shutdown hangs when /var is a separate filesystem" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1654600
<slashd>   - Series to SRU : xenial yakkety zesty
<slashd>   - Verification : verification-failed
<slashd>   - Owners : Louis Bouchard
<slashd> LP: #1657489 - (qemu) qemu-xen: free all the pirqs for msi/msix when driver unload
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1657489 in qemu (Ubuntu Trusty) "qemu-xen: free all the pirqs for msi/msix when driver unload" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1657489
<slashd>   - Series to SRU : trusty
<slashd>   - Owners : None
<slashd> LP: #1666827 - (horizon) Backport fixes for Rename Network return 403 Error
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1666827 in horizon (Ubuntu Xenial) "Backport fixes for Rename Network return 403 Error" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1666827
<slashd>   - Series to SRU : xenial
<slashd>   - Owners : None
<slashd> #info SRU pending for : sssd, nfs-utils, qemu, ebtables, unattended-upgrades, sosreport
<rbasak> I appreciate the report - but honestly, I'm not reading that flood. I wonder if anyone is? I suggest sticking to just the list of packages. That single last line would do. Anyone who wants more info knows where to look.
<cpaelzer> I read it
<ahasenack> here, let me paste it for you again
<dpb1> there are a lot of sosreports...
<slashd> sorry guys, will do a pastebin next week ;)
 * dpb1 slaps ahasenack
<powersj> slashd: thx :)
<cpaelzer> but I was good wit hthe short list and people polling on details where needed
<powersj> #info SRU pending for: sssd, nfs-utils, qemu, ebtables, unattended-upgrades, sosreport
<powersj> questions for slashd?
<ahasenack> sssd? hm
<cpaelzer> #info further SRU pending openssh (X, Y), sssd (T), qemu (Xx2), libvirt (X,Y,Z)
<cpaelzer> I have my own set of shi$ :-)
<powersj> ok moving on, thanks slashd
<powersj> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (powersj)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (powersj)
<powersj> #link https://jenkins.ubuntu.com/server/
<powersj> and of course I'm not prepared
<powersj> This week I'm looking into some additional CI/pkg build for cloud-init and curtin. And getting the automated ISO tests running again for previous releases.
<rbasak> What have you done with the real powersj? :-P
<powersj> haha
<powersj> Last week was the ericson qemu/hugepages QA, some SRU verification attempts on openssh and tomcat7/8, and I build my own local MAAS setup
<powersj> Oh and I broke curtin vmtest badly
<powersj> and won't do that again, I have learned my lesson
<powersj> #info powersj to get automated ISO tests running again
<dpb1> QA Team all about breaking things.
<dpb1> amazing
<cpaelzer> and on testing fyi - others might just as the virt tests run into cases that there are no lxd/cloud images for artful yet
<rharper> powersj: lol
<powersj> #info won't break curtin vmtest again
<rharper> haha
<cpaelzer> uh powersj; we will quote that the next time
<rharper> I wouldn't have recorded that
<powersj> please do :)
<powersj> anything else for the qa noob
<powersj> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee)
<smb> Noting to report but will listen to questions/requests if there are any (smb not that much more prepared).
<cpaelzer> smoser: did anybody else delete the wrong kernels because of special ordering ber LANG ?
<cpaelzer> smb: any complaints about 4.10 getting removed unintended to the kernel team?
<dpb1> apt-get autoremove deleted wrong kernels?
<cpaelzer> na, purge-kernels did
<cpaelzer> purge-old-kernels
<dpb1> what is purge-old-kernels
<smb> cpaelzer, not that we encourage people to use that :)
<cpaelzer> hehe, you are safe anyway smb
<rbasak> Is that the one inside byobu packaging?
<cpaelzer> languages that do thousand separator on "." are good :-)
<cpaelzer> yes rbasak
<dpb1> rbasak: o.O
<rbasak> If autoremove works just as well, should we deprecate and remove that?
<smoser> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/byobu/+bug/1685338
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1685338 in byobu (Ubuntu) "purge-old-kernels sorts kernels incorrectly" [High,Triaged]
<dpb1> smb: apt-get autoremove is what you all want, right?
<cpaelzer> smoser: you are a user of that, please speak for or against the tool in contrast to autoremove
<smoser> rbasak, i think the are probably right that we shoudl deprecate or just remove.
<cpaelzer> I only happen to know it from a few bugs
<smb> rbasak, I remember some people were afraid of autoremove because it might remover other stuff (though it never did remove anything for me which I still needed)
<smoser> i have used since before autoremove dtrt
 * dpb1 votes to remove this script from byobu
<smoser> one reason to keep it would be that it specifically removes old kernels
<dpb1> how do I rogers rule of meeting etiquite do that?
<smoser> where as autoremove autoremoves whatever
<ahasenack> did kikland create it, or did he just added something already existing to byobu?
<smoser> possibly autoremove takes a filter.. i dont know.
<rbasak> AIUI, he wrote it, and stuck it in with byobu for lack of somewhere else to put it.
<rbasak> Let me file a bug at least
<powersj> rbasak: for removal?
<smoser> https://askubuntu.com/questions/2793/how-do-i-remove-old-kernel-versions-to-clean-up-the-boot-menu
<smoser> rbasak, kirkland got something gfrom kees, there was a ubuntu-devel discussion on this i think
<rharper> http://blog.dustinkirkland.com/2016/06/purge-old-kernels.html
<dpb1> oh my goodness.
<dpb1> ok
<rharper> "You'll already have the purge-old-kernels command in Ubuntu 16.04 LTS (and later), as part of the byobu package. "
<smoser> The definitive answer is: sudo purge-old-kernels
<smoser> so there you have it
<nacc> in the case where a user does "someting" and autoremove starts to not dtrt
<nacc> purge-old-kernels works
<nacc> *but* the real goal is to figure out what "something" was and why autoremove stops dtrt
<nacc> (imo)
<nacc> and fix it
<rharper> honestly though, if it's the definitive answer, then it should be a stand-alone package and seeded
<rbasak> bug 1686138
<ubottu> bug 1686138 in byobu (Ubuntu) "purge-old-kernels is superseded by "apt autoremove"" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1686138
<dpb1> no
<nacc> oftentimes, i've found, it's pinning from an old release
<rbasak> rharper: agreed.
<dpb1> I think we need a follow up
<smb> sudo apt-mark auto `apt-mark showmanual '^linux-(headers|image|image-extra|cloud-tools|tools)-[0-9]'`
<rharper> dpb1: ack
<smb> ^ I think that should fix autormeove
<rharper> smb: that's user friendly
<smoser> rharper, also if it is the definitive answer, it should not remove the wrong kernels
<rharper> smoser: ack
<smoser> even if you do not speak german
<cpaelzer> hehe
<nacc> smb: correct, my imporession as well
<nacc> smb: the problem is joe user who intentionally pinned an old kernel and then un-marking it is wrong
<powersj> anything else on removing old kernels?
<dpb1> I'll contact dustin
<dpb1> you can action me
<powersj> #action dpb1 to talk to kirkland re: old kernels
<meetingology> ACTION: dpb1 to talk to kirkland re: old kernels
<powersj> anything else for smb
<powersj> #topic Upcoming Call For Papers
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Upcoming Call For Papers
<powersj> #link https://lwn.net/Calendar/Monthly/cfp/
<powersj> I don't see anything
<powersj> #topic Ubuntu Server Team Events
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Ubuntu Server Team Events
<powersj> any events?
<powersj> tomorrow... tomorrow...
<dpb1> does coffee and wine count?
<powersj> #info Bug squashing day 3 tomorrow!
<powersj> #link https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-server/2017-April/007524.html
<powersj> #topic Open Discussion
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Open Discussion
<powersj> Free for all... anything else before closing
<powersj> nada...
<powersj> #topic Announce next meeting date, time and chair
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Announce next meeting date, time and chair
<powersj> same time, same place, with cpaelzer at the helm
<powersj> cheers
<powersj> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Apr 25 16:44:40 2017 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2017/ubuntu-meeting.2017-04-25-16.01.moin.txt
<ahasenack> thanks powersj
<rharper> thanks powersj
<rbasak> Thanks powersj!
#ubuntu-meeting 2017-04-27
<infinity> o/
<sil2100> o/
<cyphermox> o/
<rbalint> o/
<cyphermox> yay meeting!
<tdaitx> hmm, steve is away?
 * xnox wonders if i can reboot back into applying windows updates
<cyphermox> let's have the meeting anyway?
<rbalint> i would love to talk about reviewing the current Ubuntu delta for packages
<infinity> cyphermox: Is that you volunterring to run it?
<cyphermox> yeah
<cyphermox> #startmeeting foundations
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Apr 27 15:13:25 2017 UTC.  The chair is cyphermox. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | foundations Meeting | Current topic:
<bdmurray> hooray for cyphermox
<cyphermox> echo $(shuf -e barry doko bdmurray slangasek caribou infinity sil2100 robru cyphermox tdaitx xnox chiluk mwhudson rbalint)
<cyphermox> robru caribou sil2100 bdmurray rbalint tdaitx infinity chiluk barry slangasek doko mwhudson xnox cyphermox
<cyphermox> maybe this list is out of date.
<sil2100> Yeah
<bdmurray> :-(
<cyphermox> :(
<tdaitx> damn =(
<cyphermox> sil2100: you go
<sil2100> Need to find my list
<caribou> yeah, just dropped by to say hi :)
<sil2100> caribou: hey ;)
<sil2100> - Bileto:
<sil2100>   * Forced clearing the lru_cache for Bileto to enable artful
<sil2100>   * Looked into missing GPG key errors, filled RT, helped resolve with webops
<sil2100> - ubuntu-image:
<sil2100>   * Helping out in debugging broken github PR test result reporting, filled RT
<sil2100>   * Filled RT for upload rights for snap
<sil2100>   * Prepared existing branches for merging
<sil2100>   * Started work on the hook mechanism - planning and experimental phase
<sil2100> - Kernel SRUs
<cyphermox> hey caribou!
<sil2100> - Regular SRU reviews
<sil2100> - Cleanup on uvp-monitor test packages, reading up on xenstore - first builds
<sil2100> - DMB meeting
<sil2100> - walinuxagent published to -proposed, waiting for SRU validation
<sil2100> (done)
<bdmurray> Wrote up test case for LP: #1676547
<bdmurray> Foundations infrastructure meeting
<bdmurray> Discussed an approach to get Package info on ubuntu core
<bdmurray> Started work on having Package written client side
<bdmurray> Modified snapport to have apport.cli command not apport.apport-cli
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1676547 in network-manager (Ubuntu) "No network connectivity after upgrade from 16.04 to 16.10" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1676547
<bdmurray> Updated StableReleaseUpdates wiki page re: dev release being closed
<bdmurray> added artful to errors, daisy code
<bdmurray> added artful to lp-retracer-config, updated osageorange
<bdmurray> updated u-r-u for artful, uploaded it
<bdmurray> updated meta-release-development for artful, updated server
<bdmurray> reported / investigated u-r-u bug LP: #1686117
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1686117 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu) "upgrade from Zesty to Artful fails if done in text mode" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1686117
<bdmurray> added artful to the official bug tags
<bdmurray> resolved issue with daisy not cleaning up core files (LP: #1686135)
<bdmurray> submitted RT regarding updating daisy in staging w/ core file fix
<bdmurray> tested update of daisy in staging, submitted RT for production
<bdmurray> foundations bug triage
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1686135 in Daisy "retracer.py doesn't clean up core files when choosing not to retrace some crashes" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1686135
<bdmurray> irc discussion re LP: #1681231 and LP: #1676547 (using -security for upgrades)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1681231 in cracklib2 (Ubuntu Zesty) "package cracklib-runtime 2.9.2-3 failed to install/upgrade: dependency problems - leaving triggers unprocessed" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1681231
<bdmurray> investigation into LP: #1682934 re local python3 and upgrade failure
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1682934 in python3-defaults (Ubuntu) "python3 in /usr/local/bin can cause python3 packages to fail to install" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1682934
<bdmurray> â done
<rbalint> * Finished my core-dev application
<rbalint> * Prepared unminimize script, under review:
<rbalint>   https://code.launchpad.net/~rbalint/livecd-rootfs/minimize-unminimize/+merge/323157
<rbalint> * Started checking each package with delta in main and noticed that Ubuntu history
<rbalint>   is not available anymore in bzr: LP: #1686100
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1686100 in Ubuntu Packaging Guide " bzr branch ubuntu:hello stopped working" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1686100
<rbalint> * Packaging guide also lists gone lintian result server: LP: #1686096
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1686096 in Ubuntu Packaging Guide " http://lintian.ubuntuwire.org is down" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1686096
<rbalint> * grab-merge with also geting Debian's packaging repo/source with dgit works nicely for packages not in usd-importer yet
<rbalint> * Sent Ubuntu deltas to Debian:
<rbalint>   main-menu #861237
<rbalint>   libdebian-installer #861241
<rbalint>   cdrom-detect #861300
<rbalint> * Proposed fix for MoM to let people find the comment box to fill
<rbalint>   LP: #1686640
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1686640 in Merge-o-Matic "Please make the comment textbox visible" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1686640
<rbalint> * I would like to go through the page and provide Debian bug numbers for the forwarded delta or an explanation for not forwarding all of it
<rbalint> eof
<tdaitx> Short week: holiday on Friday
<tdaitx> = JCK
<tdaitx>   * Waiting on 8u131
<tdaitx> = OpenJDK
<tdaitx>   * No more test regressions
<tdaitx>   * Preparing package for the security team
<tdaitx>   * Backporting patches to OpenJDK 7
<tdaitx> = Other
<tdaitx>   * National strike on Friday, I will be working
<tdaitx>   * Yet another holiday on Monday, I might decide to swap it
<tdaitx> (done)
<infinity>  * Archive opening for Artful:
<infinity>    - toolchain mangling
<infinity>    - dpkg/debhelper merges
<infinity>    - open archive
<infinity>    - update cdimage, debian-cd, snakefruit, etc for artful
<infinity>    - update d-i
<infinity>    - enable image builds
<infinity>  * snakefruit and nusakan upgrades to xenial
<infinity>  * investigate LP: #1682934
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1682934 in python3-defaults (Ubuntu) "python3 in /usr/local/bin can cause python3 packages to fail to install" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1682934
<infinity>  * Misc SRU/AA bits
<infinity>  * On vacation all next week \o/
<infinity> (done)
<gaughen> o/
<sil2100> \o
<tdaitx> o/
<xnox> is it me?
<tdaitx> yeah
<cyphermox> doko isn't here?
<gaughen> only you know if it is you, xnox
<cyphermox> oh yeah
<xnox> cloud images for onmetal fun
<xnox> apt timers bug fun
<xnox> wsl fun
<xnox> upstart removal fun
<xnox> open-vm-tools sru fun
<xnox> systemd artful & sru fun
<xnox> ...
<tdaitx> oh, fun status, yay!
<cyphermox> MIR:
<cyphermox>  - review gjs and mozjs38 (both for GNOME Shell)
<cyphermox> netplan:
<cyphermox>  - merging and testing rharper's MTU work
<cyphermox> grub2:
<cyphermox>  - reworking fbx64.efi's installation process / location
<cyphermox>  - handle upgrade / moving fbx64.efi
<cyphermox>  - install to /EFI/BOOT too (reworking a patch from Debian)
<cyphermox>  - ship BOOTX64.CSV (fallback instructions) to rebuild BootOrder.
<cyphermox> d-i:
<cyphermox>  - starting d-i merges: installation-report, tzsetup.
<cyphermox>  - coordinating merges with rbalint.
<cyphermox> shim / fwupdate:
<cyphermox>  - some discussion about signtool.exe being broken (would break new shim signatures from MS)
<cyphermox>  - coordinating fwupdate updates to Yakkety and Xenial.
<cyphermox> (done)
<cyphermox> that's it for the lightning rounds subtopic I forgot to start.
<cyphermox> #subtopic AOB
<cyphermox> err
<cyphermox> any AOB anyway?
<rbalint> sorry, what is AOB?
<cyphermox> [TOPIC] AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | foundations Meeting | Current topic: AOB
<cyphermox> any other business?
<cyphermox> other random stuff we need to talk about
<rbalint> oh, I would like to ask how we should coordinate visiting all the packages with delta
<rbalint> i would happily go through each of them
<cyphermox> what do you mean by how to coordinate?
<rbalint> should I ping the last uploader before i check each package?
<bdmurray> rbalint: There's an easy u-r-u bug if you want to have a look.
<rbalint> bdmurray: ok, i'll check that too, but looking forward
<cyphermox> my understanding was that one should ping the last uploader listed on merges.u.c and make sure before claiming a merge
<nacc> [lurking, not on foundations, but what cyphermox said was what i was told as well]
<cyphermox> partly because some may *look* easy, but aren't, and missing some bit in a merge because it looks like it's not needed can break things.
<rbalint> ok, then probably i'll ping owners of a block of 20 packages then i'll process them next day as i get green light
<rbalint> if that's ok
<bdmurray> Can I stop reviewing Precise SRUs?
<xnox> no
<xnox> lol =)
<cyphermox> rbalint: I think I can already give you green light for any d-i package I was the last to touch; but don't hesitate to ask questions if something isn't obvious
<cyphermox> anything else?
<rbalint> cyphermox: thanks
<bdmurray> cyphermox: Is that X to Y upgrade verified?
<cyphermox> bdmurray: yes.
<cyphermox> I'll go update the bug
<cyphermox> that's all for the meeting I guess
<cyphermox> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Apr 27 15:31:19 2017 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2017/ubuntu-meeting.2017-04-27-15.13.moin.txt
<sil2100> o/
<sil2100> Thanks cyphermox !
<infinity> rbalint: Some of these deltas forwarded to Debian don't make much sense.
<rbalint> infinity: which one?
<infinity> rbalint: Well, cdrom-detect is the first one I looked at, and you're forwarding deltas that change Debian to Ubuntu. :P
<cyphermox> infinity: I looked too, but it's confusing, it's a patch of a patch.
<rbalint> infinity: it is applied conditionally
<nacc> rbalint: also, i assume you'd check any notes at https://merges.ubuntu.com/main.html or otherwise
<infinity> rbalint: It... Is?
<rbalint> nacc: sure
<cyphermox> +ifeq (yes,$(shell dpkg-vendor --derives-from Ubuntu && echo yes))
<cyphermox> +	patch -p1 < $(CURDIR)/debian/patches/ubuntu-installer.patch
<cyphermox> +endif
<infinity> Oh, gross.
<cyphermox> there is that
<cyphermox> I wonder if it's not better to just keep delta for that.
<infinity> rbalint: I'd really rather keep deltas than introduce patch systems for native packages. :P
<infinity> rbalint: And deltas like this are ones we need to touch regularly anyway, there's no value in pushing them back to Debian.
<rbalint> cyphermox: i think accepting syncs is way easier than merging
<cyphermox> rbalint: it's not "really" going to be easier for the regular "new release is named XYZ" process
<infinity> Right, for a new release, I'm not going to push to Debian and sync.
<infinity> That's a delay I can't be bothered with.
<cyphermox> you still need to touch the package, so that you're adding a step
<infinity> So we'll get a delta every 6 months on that hunk.
<infinity> rbalint: So, perhaps this answers your other question, yes you should ask the "owner" of the delta before forwarding it. :P
<rbalint> infinity: ok
<infinity> rbalint: In some cases, it really is less hassle to maintain a small delta than to shift to maintaining a dpkg-vendor delta in Debian via bug reports.
<infinity> rbalint: In other cases, we intentionally carry a delta to gate flow into Ubuntu (dpkg and debhelper come to mind here, I could reduce both to 0, and I won't)
<cyphermox> infinity: not really maintaining via bug reports though
<infinity> cyphermox: For d-i, sure, I can commit.  That's not true of everything.
<cyphermox> I think we (you, me, maybe rbalit too)
<cyphermox> yeah, for d-i
<infinity> cyphermox: I can upload everything because DD, but Debian doesn't have the same weak maintainership policy and people aren't generally happy with you uploading their stuff. :P
<cyphermox> definitely not true for everything, but it's not as much as issue for non d-i.
<cyphermox> no, I know that
<cyphermox> I meant specifically for d-i where we can already commit to the tree; and it's more likely to get such branding issues
<cyphermox> I don't expect to see much branding or "totally not applicable to debian" changes in say, miniupnpc, to pick something randomly.
<rbalint> infinity: not pushing changing Ubuntu codenames makes sense
<rbalint> infinity: i think if Debian's maintainter accepts the vendor-based changes they can be offered
<cyphermox> rbalint: it's also about using a custom patch system on a native package... which *is* quite yucky
<rbalint> rbalint: i gladly merged raspbian changes
<infinity> Very.
<infinity> I think adding a patch system to d-i packages is a non-starter for me.
<cyphermox> perhaps for branding (not release names), it could be argued that proper application of db_subst in the templates could do a better job.
<rbalint> infinity: ok
<rbalint> .in file processing would be a no-go, too?
<infinity> It's a lot of added complexity to a package you're not maintaining. :P
<infinity> rbalint: I understand that you find it's less hassle for you to sync instead of merge, but if no one's asking you to do either of those things...
<rbalint> ok, won't push for pushing
#ubuntu-meeting 2017-04-30
<cjwatson> cyphermox: any such argument (about db_subst for branding) would be demonstrably wrong: that can't handle the subtleties of localisation (my stock example is "a Debian image" vs. "an Ubuntu image", but obviously there are many others)
#ubuntu-meeting 2018-04-23
<ratliff> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Apr 23 16:32:34 2018 UTC.  The chair is ratliff. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<ratliff> The meeting agenda can be found at:
<ratliff> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<ratliff> [TOPIC] Announcements
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Announcements
<mdeslaur> \o
<ratliff> 18.04 gets released this week!
<leosilva> oww, nice!
<ratliff> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly stand-up report
<ratliff> jdstrand: you are up!
<ratliff> we'll circle back around to jdstrand later, mdeslaur do you want to go ahead?
<mdeslaur> sure!
<mdeslaur> I'm in the happy place this week
<mdeslaur> I'm going to publish some mysql updates soon once I'm done with testing
<mdeslaur> I also have an embargoed issue
<mdeslaur> and I'll go down the list after that
<mdeslaur> that's it from me, sbeattie?
<sbeattie> I'm on community this week
<sbeattie> I need to check over the release notes and security features wiki pages for 18.04 things.
<sbeattie> I have the usual kernel cve triage things to do
<sbeattie> Still working on the precise gcc retpoline backport :/
 * jdstrand is here
<sbeattie> I'm also helping jjohansen track down why the apparmor parser userspace tests are failing in some environments.
<sbeattie> and have some misc review work to do there.
<sbeattie> Tht's probably the major highlights for my week.
<sbeattie> jdstrand: you want to go next, and then hand of to jjohansen?
<jdstrand> sure
<jdstrand> This week I plan to work on:
<jdstrand> - focusing on snap usns
<jdstrand> - critical priority snapd PR reviews (none atm)
<jdstrand> - sprint prep
<jdstrand> - will investigate resquashfs wrt electron-builder as have time
<jdstrand> that's it from me. jjohansen, you're up
<jjohansen> I have several new 2.13 bugs to start chasing down, and now an issue with expr-simplify as well
<jjohansen> Mount changes from David Howells to review
<jjohansen> do some revisions for policy hashing and policy versioning patching so I can get those up as wip: merge requests
<jjohansen> proper upstreamable fix for 1750594 to replace the single case fix being used as a short term work around
<jjohansen> finish up further rlimit fixes for bugs discovered while working on 1679704
<jjohansen> continue work on my LSM stacking review for Casey
<jjohansen> work on prompting prototype
<jjohansen> thats it for me sarnold you are up
<sarnold> I'm on CVE duty this week
<sarnold> I'll probably hold off on starting that to try to finish up xe-guest-utilities .. the bits I haven't seen yet are all in go, so I'm hoping they're cleaner than the shell stuff I've seen so far..
<sarnold> I'll keep on rolling down the MIR list and reading apparmor patches as needed
<sarnold> that's it for me, chrisccoulson?
<chrisccoulson> I'm expecting chromium updates this week
<chrisccoulson> I've got work arounds for the 2 rust issues I'm looking at, although one of those is just "fingers in ears, there are no test failures, lalalala"
<chrisccoulson> I don't know whether to spend any more time this week on that, it feels a bit pointless
<chrisccoulson> I've still got to work on backports to all the other releases, so there could be new issues there anyway
<chrisccoulson> I need to try to find time for the python3.5 backport too
<chrisccoulson> And I also need to get the thunderbird-next packaging in shape too, for the next major release (which is soon). We ship a thunderbird extension by default, which has historically been low maintenance. But the context behind https://mail.mozilla.org/pipermail/tb-planning/2018-April/005977.html means it will stop being low maintenance now :(
<chrisccoulson> Given that's my extension, and the low probability of finding anyone else to hand it off to, 3 guesses who will end up with that ;)
<chrisccoulson> Another fun week. I think that's me done
<ratliff> I'm on bug triage this week.
<ratliff> I will be at the product roadmap sprint next week, so the weekly meeting for next week has been cancelled and I have some more sprint prep work to do.
<ratliff> I am working an embargoed issue and have internal work to do.
<ratliff> leosilva: you are up
<leosilva> I'm in the happy place this week :)
<leosilva> I have a ghostscript update to work. I want to revisit ruby cves/triage too and I'll keep the hunting
<leosilva> that is me done.
<leosilva> ratliff: it's back to you
<ratliff> thanks!
<ratliff> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Highlighted packages
<ratliff> The Ubuntu Security team suggests that contributors look into merging Debian security updates in community-supported packages. If you would like to help Ubuntu but are not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so.
<ratliff> See http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/d2u/ for available merges and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details on preparing Ubuntu security updates. If you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-hardened. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved.
<ratliff> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Miscellaneous and Questions
<ratliff> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
<ratliff> jdstrand, mdeslaur, sbeattie, jjohansen, sarnold, chrisccoulson, leosilva: Thanks!
<sarnold> thanks ratliff!
<ratliff> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Apr 23 16:53:09 2018 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2018/ubuntu-meeting.2018-04-23-16.32.moin.txt
<jjohansen> thanks ratliff
<leosilva> tks ratliff !
<mdeslaur> thanks ratliff!
<sbeattie> ratliff: thanks!
#ubuntu-meeting 2018-04-29
<specialtr4> TESTING TESTING
<tsimonq2> Maybe it works here.
<tsimonq2> !ops
<ubottu> Help! Seveas, Hobbsee, LjL, ompaulafk, Keybuk, mdz, sabdfl, janimo, ogra, mdke, dholbach, or jono
<specialtr4> STOP IT
<specialtr4> I have work to do
<specialtr4> and the ops dont want to be bothered
<specialtr4> not on their Sunday
<specialtr4> TESTING TESTING
<specialtr4> I was hired by Ubuntu to do this job
<specialtr4> I am a contractor
<wxl> ubuntu is not a company
<specialtr4> well, whoever they are, they hired me
<specialtr4> to do this
<wxl> you don't know who hired you?
<specialtr4> I know Ubuntu did
<wxl> but they're not a company, so i doubt it
<specialtr4> I never said they were a company
<specialtr4> but you all must leave
<specialtr4> Ubuntu channels are closed right now for maintenance
<wxl> i'm quite sure that no one involved at canonical or the ubuntu community asked you to get people to leave
<specialtr4> Well, they are okay with me doing it if necessary to do my duties, which it is
<wxl> there are irc ops, both within ubuntu and across the freenode network that could deal with such a need
<wxl> so you're welcome to sit here and spin your wheels, but i'm pretty sure that's about all it's going to accomplish. i'm certainly not leaving.
<specialtr4> I don't know. All I know is that I was asked to do this
<specialtr4> Well, you can stay, but you cannot talk here right now
<specialtr4> Only maintenance people are allowed to talk here right now
<wxl> you have no authority to suggest that
<specialtr4> Yes I do. I am maintenance
<wxl> then tell me the name of the person that hired you
<specialtr4> I dont have to tell you crap
<wxl> then i don't have to leave or stop talking
<specialtr4> you do have to stop talking
<specialtr4> The presiding parties told me to come
<wxl> then you should be able to identify them
<wxl> it would be trivial to verify your claim
<specialtr4> The office just sent me an email to do this for them
<wxl> unless you're just making stuff up, which is a lot more likely
<wxl> who specificaly
<specialtr4> Think what you want
<specialtr4> I dont know who uses the email
<wxl> you can't read email headers?
<specialtr4> It is Ubuntu's email
<specialtr4> The email they have registered with me
<wxl> no, the from header
<specialtr4> Openstack
<specialtr4> That is who it was
<specialtr4> I dont need instructions from you
<wxl> openstack is a piece of software, not a person
<specialtr4> I have a job to do
<wxl> well, then i don't need to leave
<wxl> or stop talking
<specialtr4> You need to let me do the job I am hired to do
<wxl> ugh
<wxl> https
#ubuntu-meeting 2019-04-23
<cyphermox> doko: cpaelzer: didrocks: jdstrand: MIR team meeting?
<cyphermox> or do I need to adjust my calendar
<jamespage> cyphermox: nope I think its now ;)
<cpaelzer> hi
<cpaelzer> it is now for sure
<cpaelzer> cyphermox: sorry for uwsgi being so ugly
<cyphermox> you didn't write it
<cyphermox> I already knew it was a mess, I tried to snap it before.
<cyphermox> anyone want to chair so I can go grab coffee downstairs?
<cpaelzer> I can chair, doesn't always have to be you
<cpaelzer> let me just fetch the wiki content to do so ...
<cpaelzer> #startmeeting Weekly Main Inclusion Requests status
<meetingology> cpaelzer: Error: Can't start another meeting, one is in progress.
<cpaelzer> uh
<cpaelzer> some other meeting is still in progress
<cpaelzer> reading backlog here ...
<cpaelzer> can'
<cpaelzer> can't see any, is it fair to endmeeting this unconditionally
<cpaelzer> I hope we are allowed to do so
<cpaelzer> #endmeeting
<cpaelzer> #startmeeting Weekly Main Inclusion Requests status
<meetingology> cpaelzer: Error: Can't start another meeting, one is in progress.
<cpaelzer> nope reliably tells me "Error: Can't start another meeting, one is in progres" anyone having more status in this channel?
<cpaelzer> OTOH worst case we can also continue less formally
<cpaelzer> #commands
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<cyphermox> heh, no matter
<cyphermox> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Apr 23 13:24:22 2019 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2019/ubuntu-meeting.2019-04-11-15.03.moin.txt
<cpaelzer> oh here is the power
<cpaelzer> ah it was your team meeting :-)
<cyphermox> don't need to be all formal though
<cyphermox> well, I think you can always #endmeeting anyway
<cpaelzer> no I was rejected
<cpaelzer> only ops and former chairs can end it
<cpaelzer> anyway let me host todays meeting
<cpaelzer> a but copy and paste won't hurt me
<cyphermox> ah?
<cpaelzer> #startmeeting Weekly Main Inclusion Requests status
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Apr 23 13:25:47 2019 UTC.  The chair is cpaelzer. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Main Inclusion Requests status Meeting | Current topic:
<cpaelzer> #topic Review of previous action items
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Main Inclusion Requests status Meeting | Current topic: Review of previous action items
<cpaelzer> actions from last time were
<cpaelzer> a) cyphermox to look for uwsgi (he did)
<cpaelzer> b) all to focus on the 19.04 release (which we all did I guess)
<cpaelzer> c) discussions on twitter-bootstrap (for mailman3) to siwtch to a newer version (handled on the bug and upstream)
<cpaelzer> no old actions left that I'd know of
<cpaelzer> anyone else old actions to discuss?
<cpaelzer> I consider that as "no"
<cpaelzer> #topic New MIRs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Main Inclusion Requests status Meeting | Current topic: New MIRs
<cpaelzer> #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/?field.searchtext=&orderby=-date_last_updated&field.status%3Alist=NEW&assignee_option=none&field.assignee=&field.subscriber=ubuntu-mir
<cpaelzer> which comes down to only https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/masakari-monitors/+bug/1815991
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1815991 in masakari-monitors (Ubuntu) "[MIR] masakari and masakari-monitors" [Undecided,New]
<cpaelzer> this was deferred to 19.10 already
<cpaelzer> still it needs to be assigned
<cpaelzer> any volunteers?
<cpaelzer> jamespage: you said you want more "field testing" of this
<cpaelzer> jamespage: do yu want this reviewed as is - or at a later version later in the 19.10 cycle?
<cpaelzer> coreycb: ^^ ?
<jamespage> cpaelzer: yes - I expect the first POC deployments in the next month or so
<jamespage> cpaelzer: we can defer review until after that for 19.10
<cpaelzer> jamespage: ok, I'll mark incomplete and assign it to you
<cpaelzer> jamespage: then it is off our list until you set it back
<cpaelzer> ok?
<jamespage> so yes there will be a new version for 19.10 but right now it will broadly be == 19.04 codebase
<jamespage> cpaelzer: fine with me
<coreycb> cpaelzer: works for me as well
<cpaelzer> bug updated
<cpaelzer> #topic Incomplete bugs / questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Main Inclusion Requests status Meeting | Current topic: Incomplete bugs / questions
<cpaelzer> #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/?field.searchtext=&orderby=-date_last_updated&field.status%3Alist=INCOMPLETE_WITH_RESPONSE&field.status%3Alist=INCOMPLETE_WITHOUT_RESPONSE&field.subscriber=ubuntu-mir
<cpaelzer> usbguard has gone back to the drawing table last week
<cpaelzer> too many open issue, but nothing open/toto for the MIR Team
<cpaelzer> anything else that happened or that has open questions right now?
 * cpaelzer hears crickets
<cpaelzer> 3
<cpaelzer> 2
<cpaelzer> 1
<cpaelzer> #topic Any other business?
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Main Inclusion Requests status Meeting | Current topic: Any other business?
<cpaelzer> say "no" if you have none
<cpaelzer> => no
<cpaelzer> cyphermox: didrocks: doko: jamespage: ^^
<jamespage> no
<didrocks> (nothing for me, just read, but nothing to share ;))
<cyphermox> no
<cpaelzer> ok, doko wasn't around today
<cpaelzer> that is it then
<cpaelzer> cu next week with new topics after Eoan opens up more
<cpaelzer> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Apr 23 13:39:49 2019 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2019/ubuntu-meeting.2019-04-23-13.25.moin.txt
<jdstrand> cyphermox: sorry, I had a meeting conflict
#ubuntu-meeting 2019-04-25
<sil2100> o/
<cyphermox> o/
<infinity> \o
<juliank> o/
<tribaal> o/
<sil2100> tribaal: \o/
<tribaal> hi all :)
<tdaitx> tribaal: \o/
<cyphermox> shhh. intruder alert
 * tribaal is just here to say hi :)
<juliank> exterminate! exterminate!
<juliank|dalek> exterminate! exterminate!
<tribaal> hehe
<sil2100> #startmeeting Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team
<tribaal> congrats on releasing Disco everyone!
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Apr 25 15:05:14 2019 UTC.  The chair is sil2100. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic:
<sil2100> #topic Lightning rounds
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: Lightning rounds
<sil2100> echo $(shuf -e vorlon bdmurray xnox tdaitx doko sil2100 rbalint infinity cyphermox mwhudson juliank waveform)
<sil2100> xnox mwhudson waveform vorlon cyphermox infinity doko bdmurray juliank rbalint tdaitx sil2100
<xnox> * Disco got released yeah
<xnox> * Easter in Berlin Fri-Mon
<xnox> * fixing CI jobs for eoan opening
<xnox> * proposed to unbreak ubiquity_ap (autopilot) jobs, they were never
<xnox>   updated to use git sources, when ubiquity moved off bzr
<xnox> * switched link_in_boot to 1 by default in all arches, meaning
<xnox>   /boot/vmlinu[xz] is the default kernel location now everywhere. To
<xnox>   check cloud-images & upgrades, where kernel-img.conf is not present.
<xnox> * debugging lack of UUID in casper on subiquity images
<xnox> * switched to drop boot=casper in all live images by default
<xnox> * digging into history of (broken) empty user passwords
<xnox> * working on the initrd spec for UC20, lots of ugly everywhere
<xnox> * decouple boost transitions from icu ABI transitions
<xnox> * merged openssl for eoan
<xnox> * looking into oustanding openssl bionic sru changes
<xnox> done
<waveform> * Short week (easter Monday)
<waveform> * Documented pi classic image build process
<waveform> * Developing pi2 gadget to merge the pi2 and pi3 classic image builds
<waveform> * Responding to pi spec reviews
<waveform> * Working on wiringpi package
<waveform> (done)
<cyphermox> off last friday, monday
<cyphermox> shim review: Gooroom
<cyphermox> debugging grub2 HTTP boot (appears to be a firmware issue)
<cyphermox> netplan regression fix: default renderer handling (netplan PR#85)
<cyphermox> netplan work on bringing up interfaces without IP (d96a6a0f)
<cyphermox> various netplan PR reviews
<cyphermox> partner work
<cyphermox> reviewing UEFI spec change proposal
<cyphermox> review/reorganize trello cards for netplan specs
<cyphermox> (done)
<tribaal> oh, "eoan" is not an xnox troll this time :)
<cyphermox> nope
<infinity>  * Released disco
<infinity>  * Opened eoan
<infinity>  * Easter Monday and two Swap Days
<infinity>  * Backported Brian's ESM distro-info stuff to precise-esm
<infinity>  * Some merges
<infinity> (done)
<doko> - last Thu vacation, Fri and Mon bank holidays
<doko> - OpenJDK 11, 12, 13 updates
<doko> - patch for PR c++/90050, LP: #1824721
<doko> - GCC 7 and GCC 8 updates
<doko> - starting isl transition
<doko> (done)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1824721 in gcc-8 (Ubuntu) "g++-8 in disco is broken with libstdc++6 from gcc9 and libstdc++fs" [Undecided,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1824721
<bdmurray> uploaded proper fix for issue with whoopsie-upload-all LP: #1824152
<bdmurray> updated apport rectracer config for disco-proposed, eoan
<bdmurray> updated the bzr branch on porter-i386 with the above changes
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1824152 in apport (Ubuntu Disco) "/usr/share/apport/whoopsie-upload-all:AttributeError:process_report:add_gdb_info:gdb_command:write:read:readinto:read:/usr/share/apport/whoopsie-upload-all@166:collect_info:process_report" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1824152
<tdaitx> bdmurray:
<bdmurray> fixed ubuntu-release-upgrader LP: #1825563, updated meta-release accordingly
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1825563 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu) "automatically removed packages includes postgresql-10 which can result in cluster dropping" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1825563
<bdmurray> answered a question I'd had 6 months ago about the postgresql blacklist
<bdmurray> performed upload / SRU of tzdata 2019a
<bdmurray> overrode plymouth SRU regressions b/c its fix was important
<bdmurray> tested 12.04 upgrades to 14.04 w/ ESM (LP: #1824862)
<bdmurray> investigation into u-r-u bug LP: #1824430
<bdmurray> ubuntu-release-upgrader bug triage
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1824862 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu) "Test Precise ESM to Trusty ESM" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1824862
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1824430 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu Disco) "disco dist-upgrader tarball has a broken symlink in it" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1824430
<bdmurray> juliank:
<juliank> (short week due to good friday and easter monday)
<juliank> * merged dput 1.0.3 and applied fixes for sftp method (LP: #1762572) (LP: #1814791)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1762572 in dput (Ubuntu) "sftp method no longer uses temporary file name during upload" [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1762572
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1814791 in dput (Ubuntu) "dput's sftp method is very slow" [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1814791
<juliank> * uploaded python-apt with new eoan template
<juliank> * software-properties 0.98.0: Port to PackageKit (LP: #1673258), wrap-and-sort, and Debian delta reduction
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1673258 in software-properties (Ubuntu) "Remove aptdaemon and drop or port its reverse-dependencies" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1673258
<juliank> * merged gnutls28
<juliank> * merged gpgme1.0
<juliank> * merged libgcrypt20; followup from that:
<juliank>   - adjusted whoopsie-preferences and rng-tools to b-d on libgcrypt20-dev instead of libgcrypt11-dev
<juliank>   - synced srecord (mostly to follow the libgcrypt20-dev change); followup with some additional Conflicts/Replaces
<juliank>   - requested removal of libgnome-keyring, libgnomeui, and linsmith cruft (LP: #1825972) to follow Debian testing
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1825972 in linsmith (Ubuntu) "Remove libgnome-keyring, libgnomeui, linsmith from eoan" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1825972
<juliank> * synced dash
<juliank> * merged lvm2
<juliank> * fixing images shipping apt cache cruft (LP: #1826377, WIP)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1826377 in livecd-rootfs (Ubuntu) "images shipping /var/cache/apt/*.bin" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1826377
<juliank> * more update-notifier ESM fixes and testing
<juliank> (done)
<juliank> rbalint:
<rbalint> (short week due to holidays)
<rbalint> * fixed breaking keyboards and leaking keys in several ways
<rbalint>   - LP: #520546 (kbd patch review pending at upstream)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 520546 in kbd (Ubuntu Eoan) "Alt+KEY incorrectly behaves like Ctrl+Alt+KEY, and/or unwanted VT switch from Alt+Left/Right" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/520546
<rbalint>   - LP: #1803993 (patch review pending at systemd upstream)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1803993 in systemd (Ubuntu) "Password appears on the VT1 screen" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1803993
<rbalint> * updated gce-compute-image-packages
<rbalint> * unattended-upgrades fixes and sru preparations
<rbalint> (done)
<tdaitx> Short week: out on Thursday (swap) and Friday (holiday)
<tdaitx> * openjdk-11 security update
<tdaitx>   - packaged for bionic, cosmic, and disco
<tdaitx>   - verified tests and failures
<tdaitx>   - uploaded packages to the security team
<tdaitx>   - planned to base next releases on upstream's pristine tarball
<tdaitx> * openjdk-8 security update
<tdaitx>   - packaged for xenial, bionic, and cosmic
<tdaitx>   - verified tests
<tdaitx>   - checking test failures for regressions (ongoing)
<tdaitx> * openjdk-7 security update
<tdaitx>   - applying upstream fixes into icedtea and fixing conflicts (ongoing)
<tdaitx> * Initial check on LP: #1825037; failing in some thread lock, haven't pin pointed the cause yet, need moar debugging.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1825037 in scilab (Ubuntu) "scilab-cli and scilab-adv-cli does not start on bionic, cosmic, disco and eoan" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1825037
<tdaitx> (done)
<tdaitx> sil2100: go!
<sil2100> - Last week: release sprint \o/
<sil2100> - This week: Monday national holiday (thus a very short week)
<sil2100> - SRU reviews and releases (many)
<sil2100> - Kernel SRU releases and reviews (new cycle started, new kernels)
<sil2100> - ubuntu-image:
<sil2100>   * Add support for snap prepare-image --snap, deprecate --extra-snaps
<sil2100>   * Fix test issues in disco causing the package to FTBFS with newest pyparted
<sil2100>   * Discussions regarding future plans of ubuntu-image classic support
<sil2100> - ubuntu-core:
<sil2100>   * Refreshed gadget snaps for supported platforms
<sil2100>   * Created image candidates, sent to CE for testing
<sil2100> - Stuff
<sil2100> (done)
<sil2100> Ok, so I don't think we have to look at release incoming bugs since we're at the start of the cycle
<doko> tdaitx: I'd like to see openjdk-8 restored in disco. should that go to -proposed, and then -updates?
<doko> sil2100: ^^^
<tdaitx> doko: no, let's have it on -security
<doko> ok, the restore needs to go to the security pocket. will address this with the security team
<doko> we need that to bootstrap kotlin
<sbeattie> let's have it go through proposed first, though.
<bdmurray> sil2100: actually I have one question
<bdmurray> s/question/bug/
<sil2100> #topic Team proposed-migration report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: Team proposed-migration report
<bdmurray> juliank: Did you get anywhere with the triggers looping bug?
<juliank> no
<bdmurray> juliank: is there a card for it?
<juliank> I don't know, I don't have the bug handy, but I don't remember creating one
<bdmurray> bug 1825211
<ubottu> bug 1825211 in dpkg (Ubuntu) "package menu 2.1.47ubuntu3 failed to install/upgrade: triggers looping, abandoned" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1825211
<bdmurray> gaughen: I'm going to card that okay?
<infinity> juliank: If someone could manage to work up a reduced testcase, that would be hugely helpful.  Maybe I could dig into it with Guillem.
<gaughen> yes, please bdmurray
<gaughen> thank you!
<sil2100> #topic AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: AOB
<juliank> infinity: fwiw, I did ping guillem about it; it's interesenting because it loops in --configure-pending
<sil2100> (since we're talking AOB anyway!)
<infinity> juliank: Yeah.  It's also suddenly far more critical now that our kernels rely on triggers, and it's so much easier for users to shoot themselves in the foot.
<bdmurray> I'm out tomorrow
<sil2100> Any other topics?
<juliank> let's talk movies
<tribaal> Have you considered calling the release "Eoan McGregor" ? :)
<infinity> Who let this guy in here?
<juliank> Eoan McGregor could be a good movie idea
<gaughen> tribaal, I like it
<sil2100> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Apr 25 15:28:24 2019 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2019/ubuntu-meeting.2019-04-25-15.05.moin.txt
<infinity> *mic drop*
<sil2100> Thanks everyone o/
#ubuntu-meeting 2020-04-20
<ddstreet> o/
<Eickmeyer> o/
<teward> o/
<oSoMoN> o/
<teward> ... hope we have enough for quorum lol
 * Eickmeyer throws stale pizza at tsimonq2
<tsimonq2> o/
<teward> so there's currently only... three DMB members here.
<teward> and it's sil2100's turn to chair heh
<rafaeldtinoco> o/
<ddstreet> quorum! \o/
<Eickmeyer> ^ Achievement unlocked
<rafaeldtinoco> sorry nature call
<teward> give it another couple minutes and if sil2100 isn't awake I'll make an attempt at chairing
<teward> ... guess I'm chairing.
<teward> #startmeeting DMB Meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Apr 20 19:08:31 2020 UTC.  The chair is teward. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | DMB Meeting | Current topic:
<teward> Welcome to the DMB meeting today, April 20th, 19:00-ish UTC.
<teward> #topic Review of previous action items
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | DMB Meeting | Current topic: Review of previous action items
<teward> we have quite a few.
<teward> - tsimonq2 to better document what we expect applicants to know (carried over)
<teward> tsimonq2: has there been any change on this, or will this continue to be carried over?
<tsimonq2> Carry over.
<teward> #action tsimonq2 to better document what we expect applicants to know (carried over)
<meetingology> ACTION: tsimonq2 to better document what we expect applicants to know (carried over)
<teward> - teward follow up with Erich Eickmeyer (flavor lead) RE: a 'core' team for them with upload rights
<teward> We've established a new ubuntu-studio-uploaders group which will be the uploaders group for the UbuntuStudio packageset instead of individual uploaders assigned the packageset.  The group is made but access rights haven't been granted yet, pending the tooling being documented by rafaeldtinoco
<teward> so that's going to stay as a separate follow-up item.
<rafaeldtinoco> k
<teward> #action teward to follow up with TB / packageset tooling on ubuntu-studio-uploaders being added to ubuntustudio packageset for upload rights
<meetingology> ACTION: teward to follow up with TB / packageset tooling on ubuntu-studio-uploaders being added to ubuntustudio packageset for upload rights
<teward> - teward follow up on packageset owning team for ubuntu-mate
<teward> Carrying this over, I didn't get to this yet
<teward> #action teward follow up on packageset owning team for ubuntu-mate (carried over)
<meetingology> ACTION: teward follow up on packageset owning team for ubuntu-mate (carried over)
<teward>  - ddstreet set expiry time on identified flavor teams
<ddstreet> yep, this is done, with 2 caveats
<teward> great news!
<ddstreet> 1) i adjusted the expiry time for the teams, but didn't adjust the expiry dates for existing members
<ddstreet> i wanted to check if there were any objections here to adjusting the existing member expiry dates; if not, i'll do that as well
<ddstreet> (i assume nobody will object, just wanted to check)
<rafaeldtinoco> +1 from me
<tsimonq2> +1
<teward> +1 from me
<ddstreet> ack, ok i can take action to do that
<ddstreet> and 2) i didn't update the expiry time for the new teams for studio or mate
<teward> #action ddstreet to adjust existing member expiration dates from packageset owning teams
<meetingology> ACTION: ddstreet to adjust existing member expiration dates from packageset owning teams
<teward> ddstreet: that's another thing you should probably go and do, even though studio is brand new.
<teward> though i'm not sure mate has an owning packageset team yet
<teward> again i haven't dug deep on that i ran out of cycles this past week
<ddstreet> ack, i can take that action as well - tho as you said, mate will have to wait
<teward> yep i'll add an action for studio for you, let me keep digging on MATE
<ddstreet> ack, thnx
<teward> #action ddstreet to apply team expiration times for studio packageset owning team
<meetingology> ACTION: ddstreet to apply team expiration times for studio packageset owning team
<teward> alrighty, next item
<teward> - rafaeldtinoco to handle request "Expired MOTU membership" (carried over)
<ddstreet> did you miss one?
<ddstreet> lubuntu pkgset?
<rafaeldtinoco> I did for dfiloni
<teward> ddstreet: will get that next
<ddstreet> ack sorry :)
<teward> rafaeldtinoco: awesome :)
<teward> and because I missed one
<teward> - teward to handle request "Adding lubuntu-update-notifier to the Lubuntu package set" (carried over)
<teward> waiting on the packageset documentation, but I think this was or will be handled by rafaeldtinoco with their pending set of reviews for handling the packageset changes this time round - think they were looking at this earlier today?
<rafaeldtinoco> yep, tb discussed today
<teward> cool then i'll keep that item in place until we get to that discussion during AOB
<teward> #action teward to handle request "Adding lubuntu-update-notifier to the Lubuntu package set" (carried over)
<meetingology> ACTION: teward to handle request "Adding lubuntu-update-notifier to the Lubuntu package set" (carried over)
<teward> - ddstreet to handle request "Please add new printing-related packages to my upload rights into main" (carried over)
<ddstreet> yep, this is done, and bug opened with TB, and email sent to TB
<teward> great!  thank you for taking that one ddstreet!
<teward> - ddstreet to write up a proposal for upload access expiry following some period of disuse (carried over)
<ddstreet> carry over plz
<teward> #action ddstreet to write up a proposal for upload access expiry following some period of disuse (carried over)
<meetingology> ACTION: ddstreet to write up a proposal for upload access expiry following some period of disuse (carried over)
<teward> - teward discuss edbuntu conversion to ppu with aklisg
<teward> this discussion went well, alkisg indicated that of the packageset other than the two items we recently PPU approved they need tux{math,paint,type},x11vnc ppu'd for them as well which they have from the edubuntu packageset
<teward> so i'll review and handle getting those PPU rights assigned, and then we can move forward on future dissolution of the edubuntu packageset.
<rafaeldtinoco> lgtm
<teward> #action teward to handle PPU rights of tux{math,paint,type},x11vnc for alkisg ahead of edubuntu packageset removal in the future.
<meetingology> ACTION: teward to handle PPU rights of tux{math,paint,type},x11vnc for alkisg ahead of edubuntu packageset removal in the future.
<teward> going out of order again...
<teward> - teward request to add jsunit to the mozilla packageset (olivier.tilloy)
<teward> this was done
<teward> - rafaeldtinoco look at flavor packageset tooling re: update of ubuntukylin packageset, run tooling to update packageset
<teward> and now we're onto the tooling heh
<rafaeldtinoco> ok.. so on this..
<rafaeldtinoco> I have ran the original tooling we have
<rafaeldtinoco> https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/6VsHCd6cnC/
<rafaeldtinoco> this would be the changes currently
<rafaeldtinoco> im thinking in going for it AND documenting the tooling
<rafaeldtinoco> in this next cycle
<rafaeldtinoco> (as this one was 20.04 last week and busy)
<rafaeldtinoco> this need was born from ubuntukylin need to add ukui packages
<rafaeldtinoco> i checked by hand and there was qt5-ukui-platformtheme missing
<rafaeldtinoco> with the tool.. there are others needed as well
<rafaeldtinoco> and it would update all other package sets with needed delta
<ddstreet> so are you going to run the script before 20.04 release, or wait until after 20.04 release and then run the script?
<rafaeldtinoco> open to discussion
<rafaeldtinoco> maybe its too late for 20.04 ?
<ddstreet> after 20.04 seems safer to me
<teward> seb128: you requested that the packageset information be updated, is this something that needs done immediately or can we wait until after release?  I'm hesitant to apply major deltas during this release cycle/week
<teward> (your email literally from today)
<rafaeldtinoco> +1 on doing it later together with documentation
<rafaeldtinoco> i thought there were too many changes
<teward> doing this post 20.04 with full documentation on the tooling and its working is the safer option and right now I'm all for the safer option while the new DMB members (myself included) get familiar fully with the tooling
<seb128> teward, after release is fine I guess
<rafaeldtinoco> +1
<ddstreet> +1
<teward> +1 on after 20.04 release.
<rafaeldtinoco> so you can document as a todo for me
<rafaeldtinoco> documenting and discussing the delta
<teward> #action rafaeldtinoco to complete documentation on existing packageset tooling, and discuss the current (large) delta in the packagesets that need adjusted
<meetingology> ACTION: rafaeldtinoco to complete documentation on existing packageset tooling, and discuss the current (large) delta in the packagesets that need adjusted
<rafaeldtinoco> tku
<teward> yep.  Next order of business...
<seb128> teward, just a side comment, but shouldn't those updates be done on regular basis?
<rafaeldtinoco> seb128: i have this question too
<teward> seb128: i don't disagree with you.  I believe they should during a cycle
<rafaeldtinoco> we have some requests for packageset changes
<rafaeldtinoco> (single packages)
<teward> the tricky part I think is the DMB prior to the latest DMB election has had other duties and or other issues which prevented it getting updated.
<rafaeldtinoco> should I drive those ?
<seb128> sorry I didn't mean to derail the agenda, that was a side comment
<teward> rafaeldtinoco: you can do that, if you wish, as part of the process of documenting the things.  I'll update that in the agenda post-meeting when I update the agenda
<teward> seb128: no problem, it's a good time for it.  we'll bring it up as well and set a task for it to be regularly updated.
<seb128> thx
<rafaeldtinoco> k
<teward> moving on...
<teward> #topic Package Set / Per Package Uploader Applications
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | DMB Meeting | Current topic: Package Set / Per Package Uploader Applications
<teward> We have two of these to review today.
<seb128> :-)
<teward> # info Olivier Tilloy for the mozilla package set (Monday 2020-04-20 19:00 UTC)
<oSoMoN> \o
<teward> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/OlivierTilloy/MozillaPackageSetApplication
<teward> oSoMoN: welcome!  Want to introduce yourself while we review your application?
<teward> (and come up with any questions of course)
<oSoMoN> sure
<oSoMoN> I'm Olivier, I'm on the desktop team and most of my times these days goes into maintaining packaging for browsers and related software
<oSoMoN> I took over the maintenance of firefox and thunderbird from Chris Coulson about 1.5 years ago
<oSoMoN> I have upload rights for those due to my belonging to ~ubuntu-desktop, but IÂ lack upload rights for enigmail and jsunit
<oSoMoN> which are closely related to thunderbird
<oSoMoN> and often need updating together with thunderbird
<rafaeldtinoco> oSoMoN: from your wiki page I see another request (as an aside I would like to request/suggest that jsunit be added to the mozilla packageset, it's currently not in it)
<teward> rafaeldtinoco: that was handled by me the past week or two, via edit-acl
<teward> so jsunit is in the set now.
<rafaeldtinoco> teward: good! tks
<oSoMoN> teward, thanks for that!
<teward> that was filed separately in the devel-permissions mailing list items ahead of this application in the last meeting
<rafaeldtinoco> yep! i see it now
<rafaeldtinoco> thanks!
<teward> thanks for introducing yourself, oSoMoN!
<rafaeldtinoco> +1, tku
<teward> does anyone have any questions for oSoMoN on their application?
<seb128> ,n
<rafaeldtinoco> o/
<seb128> no question, I just want to say that Olivier is awesome :-)
<ddstreet> no q from me
<rafaeldtinoco> I have just one.
<teward> seb128: thank you for sharing your opinion and support for Olivier :)
<teward> rafaeldtinoco: go ahead :)
<rafaeldtinoco> oSoMoN: you mention bug triage as a pain in your application, mostly because it takes more time than you would like it to do. i confess sometimes this happens to me as well. what actions are you taking to triage bug in a better way ? have you come to any conclusions to make it more productive ?
<oSoMoN> I'm trying different strategies, these days IÂ just read bug reports as they come in, but refrain from properly triaging them everyday, instead IÂ let them pile up for a few days and then do them in one pass
<oSoMoN> this lets me focus on other tasks with less context switching
<oSoMoN> seems to work well
<rafaeldtinoco> sounds reasonable for a packageset.. tku!
<rafaeldtinoco> teward: no more questions from me.
<oSoMoN> of course if a bug looks/sounds urgent IÂ just interrupt what I'm doing to triage/investigate
<rafaeldtinoco> oSoMoN: yep, its always tricky to balance.. pilling up a small set of packages is good indeed..
<teward> thanks rafaeldtinoco :)
<teward> any other questions for Olivier?  (I have none myself)
<rafaeldtinoco> just a request for him to keep converting from bzr to git =)
<oSoMoN> yes, will do :)
<teward> tsimonq2: any questions from you?
<teward> or are we ready to vote?
<tsimonq2> No questions.
<teward> #voters teward ddstreet tsimonq2 rafaeldtinoco
<meetingology> Current voters: ddstreet rafaeldtinoco teward tsimonq2
<rafaeldtinoco> +1
<teward> #votesrequired 4
<meetingology> votes now need 4 to be passed
<ddstreet> +1
<teward> #vote Olivier Tilloy for the mozilla package set
<meetingology> Please vote on: Olivier Tilloy for the mozilla package set
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
<teward> NOW you can vote heh
<teward> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from teward
<rafaeldtinoco> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from rafaeldtinoco
<ddstreet> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from ddstreet
<tsimonq2> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from tsimonq2
<teward> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: Olivier Tilloy for the mozilla package set
<meetingology> Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<rafaeldtinoco> congrats =)
<oSoMoN> thanks!
<teward> Application successful, congratulations oSoMoN!
<teward> I'll handle this in a bit
<ddstreet> congrats!
<teward> #action teward to apply permissions changes for oSoMoN to mozilla packageset
<meetingology> ACTION: teward to apply permissions changes for oSoMoN to mozilla packageset
<teward> Next application for consideration today:
<teward> #info Erich Eickmeyer for the Ubuntu Studio packageset (Monday 2020-04-20 19:00 UTC)
<teward> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Eickmeyer/PPUApplication2
<teward> Eickmeyer: welcome!  Please introduce yourself :)
<Eickmeyer> Good evening everyone!
<Eickmeyer> I'm Erich Eickmeyer, I'm the current leader of Ubuntu Studio. I've been with the project for two years now, and in that time I have introduced several packages and package updates to the Ubuntu archive.
<Eickmeyer> I have upload rights on a handful of packages, but for other packages that are not part of that which may need updating I've been packaging and passing-off to teward for the upload.
<Eickmeyer> Getting rights to the Ubuntu Studio packageset would offload some work from teward, who is definitely busy with other items, and would have him on the team to sponsor new packages as opposed to simply updating them.
<Eickmeyer> Currently, Rosco2 has exclusive packageset rights, but for the continued life and stability of the project, we would like to have two uploaders, myself and Rosco2.
<Eickmeyer> I have become proficient at packaging, but am bound to make one or two mistakes for which teward will gladly slap me upside the head.
<teward> (that's not too far from the truth, metaphorically speaking heh)
<teward> Thanks for introducing yourself, Eickmeyer!
<Eickmeyer> :)
<teward> any questions for Erich from DMB members?  (I already drill everything I ask questions on into Erich's head on a regular basis heh)
<Eickmeyer> ^ Facts
<rafaeldtinoco> yep
<rafaeldtinoco> dpf-plugins (1.3-0ubuntu1) eoan; urgency=medium
<rafaeldtinoco> this was a merge with upstream, is that correct ?
<rafaeldtinoco> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/dpf-plugins/1.3-0ubuntu1
<rafaeldtinoco> to make it easier Eickmeyer ^
<Eickmeyer> rafaeldtinoco: at the time, dpf-plugins wasn't in Debian, so no. It was a repackage of what was in the KXStudio repos (which are very, very dirty packages that need cleanup to go into Debian or Ubuntu).
<Eickmeyer> rafaeldtinoco: The git repo for the packaging is here: https://git.launchpad.net/dpf-plugins/tree/
<rafaeldtinoco> I see
<Eickmeyer> Now that I think about it, I may have actually done that one from scratch.
<Eickmeyer> Time gets blurry.
<rafaeldtinoco> yep, changelog shows it from the beginning being an ubuntu only
<rafaeldtinoco> but im glad you pointed the git
<rafaeldtinoco> made it easier
<Eickmeyer> Yep, I keep the changelog from other projects.
<rafaeldtinoco> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/hydrogen/1.0.0~beta2-0ubuntu1
<rafaeldtinoco> this one was just added
<rafaeldtinoco> ok
<Eickmeyer> That one was originally from Debian, but they weren't moving quick enough to get the Qt5 moved out, so it had to be manually done. RikMills did beta1, teward did beta2.
<Eickmeyer> Did = sponsored
<rafaeldtinoco> teward: im good, no more questions
<rafaeldtinoco> Eickmeyer: thank you
<Eickmeyer> np
<teward> Eickmeyer: you also mention in your application a set of packages 'in lieu of the Studio packageset' - are these packages that should be included in the packageset, and if so do you intend to request these being added to the packageset?
<teward> (if the answer is yes, then I'm considering them to be added to the packageset once we get the tooling fully fledged out and we can amend the packageset accordingly)
<Eickmeyer> They are packages that, if they are not in the packageset, they should be in the packageset. I believe I sent you a list of packages I knew weren't in the packageset that should be included.
<teward> I believe you did, but I'm not sure if you emailed devel-permissions with the request as well.  If you can, please send that list to devel-permissions and ask that it be added to the packageset (as you are the Studio lead currently).
<teward> I have no more questions, any questions from ddstreet or tsimonq2?
<Eickmeyer> I can, but you said you were doing that. :D
<ddstreet> no q from me
<tsimonq2> No questions.
<teward> Eickmeyer: do it anyways :P
<Eickmeyer> :P Fine. :D
<teward> #vote Erich Eickmeyer for the Ubuntu Studio packageset
<meetingology> Please vote on: Erich Eickmeyer for the Ubuntu Studio packageset
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
<teward> #voters teward ddstreet tsimonq2 rafaeldtinoco
<meetingology> Current voters: ddstreet rafaeldtinoco teward tsimonq2
<ddstreet> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from ddstreet
<teward> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from teward
<tsimonq2> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from tsimonq2
<rafaeldtinoco> +1 (i think Eickmeyer is a good candidate for Motu and would like to see him doing fixes and merges for universe, even if those have to be sponsored now, i think its time to start =o).
<meetingology> +1 (i think Eickmeyer is a good candidate for Motu and would like to see him doing fixes and merges for universe, even if those have to be sponsored now, i think its time to start =o). received from rafaeldtinoco
<teward> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: Erich Eickmeyer for the Ubuntu Studio packageset
<meetingology> Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<rafaeldtinoco> considering you want to be motu ^
<ddstreet> congrats!
<Eickmeyer> Thanks! \o/
<teward> Congratulations, Erich!  I agree with rafaeldtinoco it'd be nice to see you expanding your package work as well but congratulations on the interim on your successful application!
<RikMills> congrats
<rafaeldtinoco> definitely! congrats!!!
<rafaeldtinoco> and thanks for your work
<RikMills> yes, motu next Eickmeyer
<RikMills> :P
<Eickmeyer> Thanks, RikMills
<teward> who on the DMB wants to handle this one or do you want me to simply do it since I know the group in question that Erich needs added to?
<rafaeldtinoco> go for it, you already sponsored a bunch of stuff for him
<rafaeldtinoco> its like making the honors
<teward> heh, true.
<teward> #action teward to handle Erich Eickmeyer permissions changes tor access to Ubuntu Studio packageset
<meetingology> ACTION: teward to handle Erich Eickmeyer permissions changes tor access to Ubuntu Studio packageset
<teward> We have no other applicants to process today.
<teward> #topic Outstanding mailing list requests to assign
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | DMB Meeting | Current topic: Outstanding mailing list requests to assign
<Eickmeyer> So, jus to clairfy, do you all think I'd be ready for MOTU now if I applied?
<Eickmeyer> Sorry for the sidebar.
<teward> Eickmeyer: I'd still like to sponsor some more things if you go outside the Studio packageset, but I think you're a good candidate for MOTU (I still want some more examples and checking but as you know from working with me I'm very thorough with checking things)
<Eickmeyer> Ok, that sounds good. Thanks for the clarification. :)
<rafaeldtinoco> id like to see universe packages being fixed/merged by you
<teward> ^ this as well
<rafaeldtinoco> Eickmeyer: going through universe bugs (specially those with patches already pointed out)
<rafaeldtinoco> and doing the code work, packaging, test, etc
<rafaeldtinoco> will give you good background
<rafaeldtinoco> teward: sorry did not want to interrupt you
<teward> alls good we can continue now
<teward> - ubuntu-core-dev membership (Serge Hallyn)
<teward> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/devel-permissions/2020-April/001482.html
<teward> I'm for reinstating Serge's core dev, if nobody else has any objection.
<teward> so barring any objection, who would like to handle this one?
<rafaeldtinoco> teward: i can
<rafaeldtinoco> if all others are +1 (should we vote, I think we already talked about this recently)
<teward> i think we did as well but we'll vote just for sanity's sake
<teward> #vote Reinstate Serge Hallyn's core dev which expired
<meetingology> Please vote on: Reinstate Serge Hallyn's core dev which expired
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
<teward> #voters teward ddstreet tsimonq2 rafaeldtinoco
<meetingology> Current voters: ddstreet rafaeldtinoco teward tsimonq2
<teward> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from teward
<rafaeldtinoco> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from rafaeldtinoco
<ddstreet> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from ddstreet
<teward> tsimonq2: need your vote.
<tsimonq2> Sorry
<tsimonq2> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from tsimonq2
<teward> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: Reinstate Serge Hallyn's core dev which expired
<meetingology> Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<teward> #action rafaeldtinoco to reinstate Serge Hallyn's ubuntu-core-dev rights.
<meetingology> ACTION: rafaeldtinoco to reinstate Serge Hallyn's ubuntu-core-dev rights.
<teward> I didn't go over in depth the existing mailing list items, were there any ones that needed urgent addressing that I may have missed?  (I wasn't expecting to chair today heh)
<rafaeldtinoco> i *think* there is some other packagetset change needs
<rafaeldtinoco> but i can review those
<rafaeldtinoco> together with the tooling
<teward> awesome.
<teward> #topic Any Other Business
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | DMB Meeting | Current topic: Any Other Business
<teward> Anything else that needs brought up?  Sorry the meeting's a bit longer today than normal :)
<teward> 10...
<teward> 9...
<teward> 8...
<teward> 7...
<teward> 6...
<teward> 5...
<teward> 4...
<teward> 3...
<teward> 2...
<teward> 1...
<teward> 0.
<rafaeldtinoco> =)
<teward> #topic Select a chair for the next meeting (following alphabetical order of first names)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | DMB Meeting | Current topic: Select a chair for the next meeting (following alphabetical order of first names)
<rafaeldtinoco> I'm the chair (based on he list)
<rafaeldtinoco> he/the
<teward> sil2100 was supposed to chair today, then rafaeldtinoco after.  I'll bump sil and myself to the end of the list as I chaired today.  I was slated to chair the next meeting after sil today but I will be late to next DMB meeting
<teward> so rafaeldtinoco is the chair next meeting
<rafaeldtinoco> looks good
<teward> #info rafaeldtinoco to chair DMB meeting on 2020-05-04 15:00UTC
<teward> Thanks to everyone who was present for the meeting!  This concludes today's DMB meeting.
<teward> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Apr 20 20:16:43 2020 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2020/ubuntu-meeting.2020-04-20-19.08.moin.txt
<ddstreet> thanks for chairing teward! o/
<teward> yep!  hope I did a good job
<rafaeldtinoco> teward: thanks a lot !
<rafaeldtinoco> you sure did!
<teward> (those meetingology commands are... bleh)
<oSoMoN> thanks everyone!
<rafaeldtinoco> oSoMoN: o/ congrats
<sil2100> Sorry guys, it's all so busy because of the release
#ubuntu-meeting 2020-04-21
<cpaelzer> hiho jamespage didrocks doko ddstreet joeubuntu sarnold
<ddstreet> o/
<cpaelzer> I guess in release week there isn't much going on and this can be fast
<joeubuntu> good morning cpaelzer ddstreet !
<cpaelzer> but lets check it out
<cpaelzer> also I haven't had lunch yet so I want to be fast :-)
<doko> hi
<doko> should we skip?
<sarnold> good morning cpaelzer, ddstreet, joeubuntu, doko :)
<cpaelzer> lets do it but be quick, I don't expect much to come up
<cpaelzer> #startmeeting Weekly Main Inclusion Requests status
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Apr 21 13:00:41 2020 UTC.  The chair is cpaelzer. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Main Inclusion Requests status Meeting | Current topic:
<cpaelzer> #topic Review of previous action items
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Main Inclusion Requests status Meeting | Current topic: Review of previous action items
<cpaelzer> none open AFAIK
<cpaelzer> #topic current component mismatches
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Main Inclusion Requests status Meeting | Current topic: current component mismatches
<cpaelzer> #link https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/component-mismatches-proposed.svg
<cpaelzer> #link https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/component-mismatches.svg
<cpaelzer> only known cases
<cpaelzer> the mass seed which isn't urgent part of 20.04
<cpaelzer> and the apport dependency which is the ordering of the deps
<cpaelzer> no action needed on those, any disagreement?
<sarnold> fine by me
<cpaelzer> ok lets go on - anyone feel free to speak up if we go too fast
<cpaelzer> #topic New MIRs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Main Inclusion Requests status Meeting | Current topic: New MIRs
<cpaelzer> #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/?field.searchtext=&orderby=-date_last_updated&field.status%3Alist=NEW&assignee_option=none&field.assignee=&field.subscriber=ubuntu-mir
<cpaelzer> one real candidate
<cpaelzer> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-raspi/+bug/1871835
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1871835 in linux-raspi (Ubuntu) "[MIR] linux-raspi" [Undecided,New]
<cpaelzer> and actually I don't think this even needs a review
<cpaelzer> this is a kernel source like the many kernel sources built by the kernel team
<cpaelzer> just another flavor of it
<cpaelzer> doko: how did we add e.g. -azure and -gce abck in the day
<cpaelzer> does this really need a review - or can we promote it right away?
<cpaelzer> joeubuntu: sarnold: and from your POV - adding those would be a no-op right?
<cpaelzer> you track kernels anyway I guess
<joeubuntu> I don't see a problem, sarnold your thoughts ?
<sarnold> cpaelzer: yeah, I'm not sure how the zoo of kernels works out
<cpaelzer> doko: how was this handled in the past
<cpaelzer> I'd prefere to just do it the same way
<cpaelzer> which most likely means no new MIR process needed on this
<sarnold> cpaelzer: the one funny thing with pi is that it seems to have binary blobs that may be less maintainable than more 'normal' machine kernels
<cpaelzer> lets go through the rest of the agenda (all no-ops today I think) - we can wait for dokos answer in the last segment
<cpaelzer> #topic Incomplete bugs / questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Main Inclusion Requests status Meeting | Current topic: Incomplete bugs / questions
<cpaelzer> #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/?field.searchtext=&orderby=-date_last_updated&field.status%3Alist=INCOMPLETE_WITH_RESPONSE&field.status%3Alist=INCOMPLETE_WITHOUT_RESPONSE&field.subscriber=ubuntu-mir
<sarnold> cpaelzer: but that seems more like a business decision, "is this platform important enough to pay the costs", and hope that our partners will be able to supply us with fixes in five, ten years
<cpaelzer> nothing new in the incomplete
<cpaelzer> so we can go for
<cpaelzer> #topic Any other business?
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Main Inclusion Requests status Meeting | Current topic: Any other business?
<cpaelzer> and here I'd ait for doko to chime in how this was handled in the past
<cpaelzer> sarnold: I agree - this is a support statement more than anything else
<sarnold> can we move this meeting ~two hours later? that'd help me quite a lot :) it's 0600 for me, and while joeubuntu has been kind enough to take my place, that's been inconvenient all around
<doko> cpaelzer: no MIR required in the past, same as for the versioned source packages
<cpaelzer> thank doko, can I assign it to you for promotion on thaose terms then?
<cpaelzer> sarnold: 2h later I have other meeting conflicts, but 1h or 1.5h are fine
<cpaelzer> sarnold: would you mind starting something like a doodle poll for new times?
<doko> sure
<sarnold> cpaelzer: good idea, thanks :)
<didrocks> a pool sounds good to me. Most of the time, this meeting conflicts with some others for me (but 2 hours isnât doable, so letâs see for a poll)
<cpaelzer> ok, then we are don for today
<cpaelzer> thanks everyone
<cpaelzer> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Apr 21 13:13:43 2020 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2020/ubuntu-meeting.2020-04-21-13.00.moin.txt
<doko> that would move it into other meetings for me.
<didrocks> thx
<sarnold> thanks cpaelzer, all :)
