#ubuntustudio-devel 2010-03-15
 * abogani waves
<abogani> Could anyone pinpoint me to meeting logs, please?
<abogani> ScottL, jussi01: ^
<persia> abogani: They are at least embedded in http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2010/03/14/#ubuntustudio-devel.html
<ScottL> abogani, persia, the meeting didn't happen as it was just me, rlamerio and quadrispro
<ScottL> i am hoping to reschedule to include the two of you and stochastic (well, at least two of the three of you)
<persia> That's a meeting, just one with low attendance :)
<persia> Hard, since we're on three different corners of the world :)
<persia> (and two of us have very odd hours)
<ScottL> re: low attendance - i reall considered having the meeting to have them involved but there would have been very few answers to most of the questions asked
<ScottL> i was going to wait a few days and see if I can get stochastic on line and ask him about his schedule, although I can also email him today as well, before trying to reschedule
<jussi01> persia: you are incredibly weird, we all know that :D but yeah, scheduling meetings is hard.
<persia> True.  Having a meeting without input from artistic and technical leaders gets interesting :)
<ScottL> but barring his involvement, i see the two of you on IRC right now ;)
<ScottL> oh, and jussi01 ...
<ScottL> I would be extremely happy to reschedule the meeting a few days hence at this time if more people could be involved (hint: abogani, persia, jussi01 )
<persia> It's 4:30am for stochastic.
<persia> And I'm a little surprised to see you about at this hour as well, given your normal apparent schedule :)
<jussi01> ScottL: euro daytime/evening is pretty good for me
<ScottL> persia, actually, it's 6:42 in the morning, i'm late for work by my own driven, type-a personality
<ScottL> i should have been at work 15 minutes ago and it takes me thirty to get there without dropping off any kids
<ScottL> luckily, this week is spring break and the kids are off and my wife is on vacation to stay home with them so I will go in slightly early (not very early, mind you) every day
<ScottL> but back to the point, if stochastic is not going to attend then I propose somewhere around this time because of the people that are available
<persia> Aha!  now I understand your hours better.  You typically start at a time that looks like UTC-4 (-3 now, I suppose), but seem to be up late enough to have maybe been in UTC-8(-7 now, I suppose).  Knowing it's UTC-5(-4 due to silly government regulation) puts all the pieces together.
<persia> How much earlier gets really bad for you?  If we pull it forward an hour (about 10:30 UTC), we might catch stochastic at the tail-end of his day.
<ScottL> for the meeting I would try to move a mountain at this point (not having a plan greatly distresses my chi)
<ScottL> of course, I would rather come to the mountain, than vice versa
<ScottL> 10:30UTC I could do
<persia> Check how late stochastic is up then.  I have a fairly strong opinion that something like 11:00 UTC would happen to work just because of all our individually odd sleeping habits.
<ScottL> I am going to leave for work now, I'll log on again in thirty minutes
<persia> Have a good trip :)
<abogani> IMHO meetings should be scheduled to meet with needs of "core" part of team...
<persia> abogani: Who is "core"?
<abogani> persia: This is the point: no one know. Who is the lead? Who is the core part of the team? I think, but it is only my opinion, that *before* we should know who are "essential" for the project and after we can do the right schedule for meeting (decide the best time for accommodate this part of the Team).  
<abogani> I know it seems very rough but we should live with priorities after all.
<persia> abogani: I agree with you.
 * abogani received an other kick in the ass just now.
<persia> That said, I think ScottL is responsible for initating most of the traffic in this channel currently, so I believe he is best suited to identify the current core team.
<abogani> persia: And I suspect that stochastic seems to fit well the role of lead, right?
<persia> I believe stochastic is currently filling the role of artistic lead.
<abogani> persia: Don't be already assigned to Corry?
<persia> I thought he stepped back whilst he sorted out other parts of his life.
 * abogani go to give vent to rage for an other failed job interview.
<ScottL_> abogani, persia, jussi01: if we were to have a meeting at 10:30 UTC (abouve two hours before right now) do you have a preferred day?  this week? next week?
<persia> My preferred day is Tuesdays.
<jussi01> ScottL: gulp. I dont know, its work time, so I can be there but participation is hampered by $ work
<persia> But I have another meeting at 10:00 UTC every two weeks.
<abogani> ScottL_: That is my _personal_ opinion: We should reduce the number of discussions points (splitting in two pieces) and so do the meeting as soon as possible.
<persia> ScottL_: Anyway : what issues were pending a meeting?
<abogani> persia: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/Meetings/2010Mar14
<persia> Right.
<persia> So, JACK into main is mostly stalled by FeatureFreeze at this point.  The big bits are done.
<persia> libffado went with it.
<persia> REVU is all next cycle.
<persia> forms change got done
<persia> Worth a fresh check of http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/multidistrotools/ubuntustudio.html
<persia> stochastic should build a rocking website
<persia> plymouth theme to be uploaded once FFe granted.
<persia> Need a tech lead.
<persia> Need a project lead.
<persia> Need a release manage.
<persia> Oh, and we have kernel issues.
<persia> Personally, I agree with abogani.
<persia> Until we confirm our artistic lead and get a tech lead & project lead, meetings aren't so useful.
<persia> And without a release manager, we're releasing kinda by accident, which isn't sustainable.
<persia> Project lead is most important: the main requirements being 1) passion for Ubuntu Studio, 2) Strong communications skills, and 3) ability to gain Cory's respect.
<ScottL_> I have to admit I LOL'ed at number three (but it's true, that's why I laughed)
<persia> For tech lead, I think the requirements are 1) active Ubuntu developer, 2) time for Ubuntu Studio
<persia> For artistic lead, I'm not qualified to suggest requirements.
<persia> For release manager, requirements are 1) can attend relevant meetings and track IRC regularly, 2) can respond to requests reguarly, 3) can represent Ubuntu Studio-specific issues to the rest of the release team in a coherent manner
<ScottL_> persia: what type of requests need to be responded to (number two above)
<persia> Two kinds: 1) requests from developers / users about whether things need / should have freeze exceptions, 2) requests from other members of the release team or from the foundations team for changes needed to keep the release on-track.
<ScottL_> persia: to answer your questions above about pending issues
<ScottL_> I was hoping to discuss Luke's departure and how to distribute the work load
<persia> Distribution isn't going to work.
<persia> We *need* a tech lead.
<persia> neither crimsun or I is suitable for time reasons.
<ScottL_> is that something that quadrispro can help with (I don't know his technical abilities other than he has something like 58,000 karma points in Launchpad)
<persia> fabrice_sp and quadrispro aren't around enough (one hopes "yet").
<persia> Certainly, assuming that he wishes to do so, and steps up to do it.
<persia> I'm not fond of giving people grand titles because they say they want to do something, but rather because they have been doing something.
<ScottL_> hm.  another point was hoping to get input from stochastic regarding website, but since he hasn't scheduled a meeting yet (which was presumably the first step)  for input then I'm guessing nothing is done yet (hopefully I'm wrong)
<persia> So if he starts pushing fixes for the bugs, and starts chasing image conditions, and otherwise acts as tech lead, Im sure he'd be confirmed.
<persia> But I'd hope that any tech lead would be confirmed by the project lead, and also some of the senior developers.
<jussi01> often project lead and release manager are one and same.
<persia> Indeed.
<ScottL_> I was looking at updating the applications list for lucid -> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuStudio/Applications
<ScottL_> and realized that about one quarter of the listed applications have udpates....yay!
<ScottL_> i'll make sure the are also noted on the working release notes page
<ScottL_> i was surprised (and somewhat shocked) that so many applications had new verision
<persia> All praise the debian-multimedia team, without whose work we would be unable to produce what we do.
<ScottL_> amen!
<rlameiro> persia: YEAH!
<ScottL_> persia:  I was looking http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/multidistrotools/ubuntustudio.html#outdatedinB
<ScottL_> since there are apparently no Ubuntu changes we should be able to sync BUT we are in FF so,
<ScottL_> should I file a sync request knowing that it will be delayed but probably irritate some people or make a reminder for myself to file them later?
<ScottL> persia, are you around?
#ubuntustudio-devel 2010-03-16
<persia> ScottL: I'll take a quick look: I suspect we can get audacity, fontforge, gtick, and qsynth updated if there's anything useful.  rakarrack would need testing and strong rationale.
<persia> The same logic would apply to outdatedandlocalinB
<ScottL> I'd be happy to make whatever necessary bugs are required
<ScottL> since we have trouble getting any testing done, then I'll make a reminder to reevaluate rakarrack after lucid is released
<ScottL> oh, and persia, if you don't have time to look at audacity, etc I'll be happy to do that as well to see what's improved
<ScottL> as for a 'outdated and local changes', the majority didn't seem to be huge changes (at least judging from version numbers) and I thought since they would require changes they would be more difficult to get FF exception approval
<persia> It's the case where there's a change to the debian revision, but not the upstream version that tends to interest me most.
<persia> The upload happened for a reason, and it usually closes a bug.
<persia> (or several bugs)
<persia> So it's a matter of checking if the bugs that got closed are interesting
<persia> For example, if I look at audacious-plugins
<persia> The Debian changes are listed at http://changelog.debian.net/audacious-plugins
<persia> This looks fairly serious, but audacious-plugins doesn't appear at http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs/ (launchpad records) or http://udd.debian.org/cgi-bin/ubuntu_ftbfs.cgi (rebuild test), so it's actually not important.
<persia> cdrdao appears to be an ubuntu -> debian merge, so no worries.
<persia> Conversely, audacity fixes a track export bug.
<ScottL> hmmm, didn't think of that (closing bugs)   that makes a whole lot of sense and is extremely useful
<persia> Yeah.  The development viewpoint tends to be very different than the marketing viewpoint.  If something small changes in something that doesn't usually get updated, it's often critical.
<persia> If something big changes in something that gets updated regularly, it's often uninteresting because there's an even chance it introduces as many issues as it resolves.
<persia> But when promoting stuff, the small rare changes are uninteresting, and the big flashy features are exciting and can garner several paragraphs.
<ScottL> persia, do you ever sleep?  most time I see you active online
<persia> I sleep.  I'm just not diurnal, and I travel not infrequently, so it may create the wrong impression based on various assumptions.
<persia> Note that it look me > 7 hours to get back to you earlier, which is the sort of thing that may be an indicator of when I'm away.
<persia> s/look/took/
<persia> (being away isn't always sleep, but sleep is always being away)
 * abogani waves
<ScottL> hi abogani, i got delayed a bit in testing kernels this weekend but I will try to start tonight
<ScottL> my wife got sick this weekend, luckily I haven't so far and I'm really hoping I don't ;)
 * ScottL is going to work will log on again when I get there
<abogani> ScottL: Don't worry about kernels! Take care of your wife instead! :-)
<ScottL_> abogani: she puked all day saturday, slept most of Sunday and is right as rain yesterday...I just hope I dont' get it ;)
 * abogani don't know what means "right as rain"...
<abogani> ScottL: ^
<persia> abogani: "In good health"
<abogani> persia: Ah Thanks!
<abogani> ScottL: So I'm happy for your wife! :-)
 * abogani wondering if there are news about Studio lead (tech and in general)..
<ScottL_> I have some thoughts about team positions along with community involvement but I'd like to develop them a little more before presenting them
<ScottL_> perhaps by the end of this weekend I'll something a little more cohesive and tangible
<persia> I'm extremely opinionated about that sort of thing.  I'd love to critique something once you have it ready.
<ScottL_> Capital!  Feedback, especially critical feedback, would be most appreciated.
<persia> I can certainly provide that :)
#ubuntustudio-devel 2010-03-17
<ScottL> abogani, I was running the -rt cyclictest last night, do I need to run it when I'm doing other things (i.e. recording, surfing the web, anything?)
<ScottL> or just let the test be the load?
<ScottL> should I do it several times?  once? thrice? more?
<ScottL> I also did about fifteen minutes of recording hydrogen and guitar to test the -generic kernel
<ScottL> was very surprise that I cold maintian 2.37ms or 2.9ms (don't remember) pretty darn consistanly with -generic kernel
<ScottL> Hydrogen dropped the JACK connection once, but I couldn't determine if that was the fault of JACK, the kernel or hydrogen (since hydrogen is the new versionj)
<ScottL> I will spend a few more days with the -generic kernel before I move on to a different kernel just to be thorough
<ScottL> abogani, also, do you want this information documented?  if so, how?  is email okay?  should I make a wiki page for posterity?
<ScottL> I think tonight I'll route some of my previously recorded audio through JAMin and see what increased CPU cycles do it as well
<ScottL> persia, we were speaking of leads earlier, which lead should check for Ubuntu Studio releated bugs in launchpad?
<ScottL> which lead should be considering the Ubuntu Studio vs Debian version number web page
<persia> Everyone should be checking bugs.  That's not a lead thing.
<ScottL> lastly, which lead should be keeping up with new upstream releases?
<persia> I would expect both a project lead and a tech lead to nag folks if not enough people are helping with that.
<persia> New upstreams, etc. is probably more of a tech thing, but other folks may also have opinions.  I don't believe we need to track that so closely, but should rather focus on having a well-integrated experience, even if it means we don7t have the latest of something.
<ScottL> thank you for the answers persia
 * ScottL forgot to set alarm and is now leaving a little late for work :(
<ScottL_> abogani: did you read my previous messages?
<abogani> ScottL_: There isn't a way to record "performance". Real-time change a bit with hardware, software and with type of use you do of your computer.
<abogani> ScottL_: So the only one thing that a person can do is test it for himself.
<abogani> ScottL_: You can compare -generic, -lowlatency or the kernel that you whant but results are valid only for you and for your systems (computers).
<abogani> ScottL_: Please use what fill your needs but follow this rule: -generic, -preempt, -lowlatency, -rt, -realtime
<abogani> ScottL: If -generic is enough for you stick on it! In this case you are lucky no need to fight with the beast (beast == kernel linux) :-)
<abogani> ScottL_: The developers use some type of hardware to obtain comparable results ( for instance parallel port attachable devices or IO external cards)
<abogani> ScottL_: Some UStudio developers try to evaluate kernel counting how many x-runs occurs. But again this isn't universal valid test case.
<abogani> ScottL_: Sorry if my answer let your disappointed.
<ScottL_> persia: you mentioned earlier that I probably should download the source code via apt-get when using bzr, your comment was that it would possibly prevent many common errors or something similar
<ScottL_> can you elaborate which types of errors this might prevent?  Also, it seems that I should 'bzr branch' first, then download the source code; is this correct?
<crimsun> I'd go even further [than what abogani said] and mention that xruns are not a particularly useful metric at all
<ScottL> crimsum, it is possible to perform any test then that can be quantized and compared between users though?
<crimsun> ScottL: sure, latency as measured by the driver -> jackd
<ScottL> okay, then given a standardized setting in jack (i.e. realtime, frames/period, etc) we could build useful data again -generic, -lowlatency and -rt, no?
<crimsun> ScottL: per-hardware and configuration, yes
<crimsun> ScottL: abogani's point stands that you can't measure based on raw numbers alone
<crimsun> ScottL: but xruns themselves just don't offer anything even when given across hardware and config
<ScottL> yes, i agree.  I was hoping we could develop a codified test (or standard) to give people for two reasons:
<ScottL> 1. this way the data is useful and comparable and hopefuly correlations are found
<ScottL> 2. I think (and feel very strongly) that most people would be more involved if they were told exactly what to do, the casual user will invest little time to research how to do something for someone else even if it is ultimatly to their own benefit
#ubuntustudio-devel 2010-03-18
<rlameiro> ScottL: are you there?
<rlameiro> http://realtimeconfigquickscan.googlecode.com/hg/realTimeConfigQuickScan.pl
<rlameiro> a script on the arch linux
<rlameiro> http://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Pro_Audio
<rlameiro> will test the computer setup for the audio pro settings
<ScottL> rlameiro, that's great information, i'll dig into it more tomorrow
<rlameiro> ScottL: It could be added to some kind of gui test program to the user
<rlameiro> to help to settup the system
<rlameiro> something atached to the ubuntustudio controls maybe
<ScottL> abogani, I did not explain my intentions completely regarding the kernel testing
<ScottL> I thought that given standardized jack settings the lowest stable latency achieved could be recorded
<ScottL> along with hardware specifications
<ScottL> additionally I was wondering if cyclictest data would be useful as well
<ScottL> if this is the case then I would be happy to create documentation that explain to users how to run the test and document the results
<ScottL> hopefully lowest latency and hardware information coupled with cyclictest data would allow for correlations to be discovered
<abogani> ScottL: It is really hard find correlations when 1) hardware is different 2) workload isn't perfectly reproducible 3) how and for what people use computers change from person to person so what workload we should take as "reference"? ScottL: I find your intentions very laudable _but_ I prefer that you use your time/energy/mental power for other things because I'm not sure that these (record spec and cyclictest results) c
<abogani> ould be useful in same way.
<abogani> Anyone could list to me packages (related to kernel) that require attention for UbuntuStudio? rtkit? irqbalance? rtirq-init?
<ScottL> troy_s, I got my Visual Literacy and Design Basics Index books today, i'm looking forward to starting reading them tonight
<troy_s> ScottL: Wow.
<troy_s> ScottL: I think you will enjoy the Visual Literacy book.
<troy_s> ScottL: The Krause is a good read too - he really has some of the core stuff pushed into his work. The simple elaboration of "Who is it for and what does it need to do"
<troy_s> ScottL: If you enjoy them, there is a long line of good reading there.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2010-03-19
<rlameiro> downloading alpha 3 now
<rlameiro> going to test it on my new 500gb 7200 rpm disk
<persia> ScottL: The main reason to download the source with e.g. `apt-get --download-only source ${PACKAGE}` is to make sure you have the correct original tarball artifact.  The order between this and bzr branch matters not at all.  Some work has been done to use pristine-tar to make this no longer required : I'm not sure of the current status of that work.
 * abogani waves
#ubuntustudio-devel 2011-03-14
<raony> hey guys, when a visual installer for the studio will finally happen ?
<holstein> raony: we were talking about maybe for 12.04 :)
<raony> I will keep that in mind, if there is anyway I can help with that, just want to make the transition to studio less painful with that installer.
<raony> but for us i believe it's pretty easy
<holstein> raony: im sure there is
<holstein> we were talking about either the live CD
<holstein> like the normal buntu
<holstein> OR
<holstein> the graphical verion of what we already have
<raony> what about a live dvd, is that possible?
<raony> using all the 1.6 gb
<holstein> raony: sure
<holstein> possible
<holstein> not too hard either
<holstein> raony: you know when you are installing from an ubuntustudio disc now?
<holstein> the tasks?
<raony> from the live dvd i believe people could use a usb to install
<holstein> you put a checkmark in?
<raony> the you mean ?
<raony> when you choose for video suite, audio suite, image suite ?
<holstein> ^ yeah
<holstein> we would lose that
<holstein> going with a live DVD
<holstein> and i think thats OK
<holstein> but we need to make sure
<holstein> we dont want to waffle
<holstein> its all or nothing :)
<holstein> i think its a good move
<holstein> BUT, we should think about it from every angle and make sure
<raony> and if we include that at the installer, just make a few more steps at the installer ?
<holstein> raony: i dont think we can
<raony> ok
<holstein> raony: after the install though
<holstein> do-able work arounds for sure
<holstein> and that would give us the USB install
<holstein> *easier usb install
<holstein> and a similar look and feel to the normal buntu
<holstein> and a chance for folks to check their gear with JACK
<holstein> BUT, the task selection is nice
<raony> true
<holstein> it wasnt working though
<holstein> so, i dont know...
 * abogani waves all
<scott-work> holstein: i guess there are few items to look at since i'm back
<scott-work> like the libffado business for one
<scott-work> i suppose i also need to contact dick micinnis about the art lead/director position
<scott-work> ailo: thanks for testing those backports, i'll add my comments to them this week and ping ScottK later in the week
<scott-work> incidentally, i've been in contact with some people at the libre graphics magazine: http://libregraphicsmag.com/
<holstein> scott-work: yeah, i'll go over that with you whenever
<holstein> i have a few folk to follow up with
<holstein> and i think we have time
<holstein> and a few options
<holstein> we can apparently step back to an older verion
<scott-work> originally i wanted to get their input on a good work flow/tool chain for graphics applications
<holstein> for 11.04
<holstein> if needed*
<scott-work> holstein: it's good to have a fallback plan certainly
<scott-work> interestingly, the LGgraphics people offered to place an ad in their magazine for a call to action to get peoples input for graphics
<scott-work> it's too late for their current edition but we could do that for the next edition
<scott-work> i wanted to get the editor's input since they use libre graphics applications in a professional setting
<scott-work> one of the editors (ginger) used to use ubuntu studio but recently switched to a fedora respin and are working with them
<scott-work> not trying to "win" her back, but i would really like to hear from her (and the rest) how we could improve
<holstein> scott-work: we should talk about that
<ailo> Perhaps the people involved in creating the art for UbuntuStudio will also have an idea of what would be good to use on the graphic side.
<ailo> scott-upstairs, Yeah, I started testing some packages. Some of them I've never tried, so I need to see how to use them :P
<ailo> scott-work, I mean. (this auto-complete feature on x-chat is completing the first possibility alphabetically, without asking)
<scott-work> ailo: i should really get rid of my "scott-upstairs" xchat session seeing that i'm not even on that computer currently ;)
<scott-work> that computer has been on for almost two weeks and I really haven't used it much while sick/away on work
<macinnisrr> Hi!
<holstein> macinnisrr: hey :)
<holstein> scott-work was talking about art earlier
<macinnisrr> are scott-work, scott-upstairs, and ScottL all the same person?
<holstein> macinnisrr: yup
<macinnisrr> lol.
<scott-work> macinnisrr: sorry about the names, i usually leave ScottL on all the time on my laptop downstairs
<scott-work> macinnisrr: i use scott-work and scott-upstairs as needed.  as you can see i'm guilty of leaving the -upstairs one on when it should be closed
<scott-work> macinnisrr: would you still like to be the art lead ?
<macinnisrr> scott-work: no need to apologize :) I understand that. I've got 6 PCs in my house, so I often do the same. And yeah, I'd love to be any part of the project (but especially the art lead)!
<ailo> macinnisrr, What are your ideas about art for UbuntuStudio?
 * ailo has been thinking a little about that, though not being an "art" person.
<macinnisrr> ailo: I currently maintain/run/develop Dream Studio (dream.dickmacinnis.com), which started as an iso of all the stuff I install in my home/studio. Anyway, I've been creating a consistent look for GTK/QT/Ardour/Cinelerra as a part of that, which is similar to Ubuntu (for documentation's) sake, but dark with blue accents (like UbuntuStudio). check screenshots here: https://picasaweb.google.com/macinnisrr/DreamStudio?
<macinnisrr> authkey=Gv1sRgCIGlgo6bm8jSBA&feat=directlink
<macinnisrr> BTW: those are screenshots from the lucid version of Dream Studio, the new themes are more in line with Ambiance and Radiance (since they've toned down the orange).
<ailo> macinnisrr, I've been thinking along those lines myself for Ubuntustudio. I was working on a pimp of the Ambiance theme, but using blue. I tried morphing the humanity folder icons too. 
<ailo> My thought was to keep it as easy as possible, as close to Ubuntu as possible, but still do something nice for the theme.
<ailo> I guess that just resonates with how I see the logic of UbuntuStudio, being a part of Ubuntu's repo, it's a possible tweak
<macinnisrr> ailo: exactly! I think we're on exactly the same page here. The current ubuntstudio theme doesn't match ubuntu, which alienates new users who may be reading the ubuntu manual (mainly because window controls are different), and the blue folder icons and navigation buttons don't match the blue of the logo.
<scott-work> sorry, work is very, very busy today
<scott-work> macinnisrr: i think you are the guy for the art lead position, congratulations :)
<scott-work> macinnisrr: and i also wanted to mention that i took a look at your site, watched some videos and i like the stuff you do, very creative
<macinnisrr> scott-work: well thanks very much! Both for the position and the nice compliment. What's my first assignment, themes for oneiric? Do you have a wallpaper for natty yet?
<scott-work> macinnisrr: i'm not sure we have much time left for natty to be honest and it may be better to wait for natty+1
<scott-work> macinnisrr: unless you are a super creative type with lots of time perhaps and can get some art work done really, really soon
<scott-work> sorry i'm being a bit short, work is super crazy since i've been sick and travel on business and today is my first day day back in almost two weeks :P
<scott-work> macinnisrr: as for the first assignment, we probably should discuss what direction you would like to suggest going forward
<scott-work> it seems that ailo_ has some interest in this as well, probably holstein also
<scott-work> they might have suggestions or even offer to help
<scott-work> abogani: i'll start working on the -lowlatency kernel again early this week
<macinnisrr> scott-work: good enough. I don't know if you know, but there are a ton of really good wallpapers on ubuntu-gallery.com that I was planning on picking from for Dream Studio. My new themes are done, though, and on launchpad, so they should be easy to pull in to UbuntuStudio (I'm using the hydroxygen icon theme, which already has an ubuntustudio icon for the distributor logo as an option). The new themes are purposely 
<macinnisrr> in line with ubuntustudio's colors, so this is all ready to go now. I'll upload some screenshots in a second, once I've tweaked the theme. And don't worry about being short, I'm just happy you're here to speak with. I came onto irc today specifically to talk to you, so it's great that I was able to catch you.
<macinnisrr> scott-work: here's a link to some screenshots of the new themes/icons
<macinnisrr> https://picasaweb.google.com/macinnisrr/UbuntuStudioScreenshots?feat=directlink
<macinnisrr> ailo_: you can download the theme from my ppa, and let me know what you think (and don't be afraid to offer suggestions) https://launchpad.net/~dreamstudio/+archive/dreamstudio-stable
<ailo_> macinnisrr, Thanks. Congrats on your assignment, and let's make the next, or next+next release a really great one.
<macinnisrr> ailo_: absolutely. I always thought UbuntuStudio was a fantastic distribution that just needed the tiniest bit of extra polish.
 * macinnisrr is checking out the latest submissions to http://www.ubuntu-gallery.com
<ailo_> macinnisrr, My idea is simplicity. Not only on the art bit but overall. Things that don't require too much work. So, it's more a matter of putting things into a system, something that maybe doesn't need to be developed as much as mantained.
<ailo_> However, things change, and Ubuntu art will change, and everything else will change, so perhaps that is not always a very smart objective
<ailo_> the objective being, putting things into a maintainable system
<macinnisrr> ailo_: I totally agree. I've done the art for 3 versions of Dream Studio now (including natty), and everytime it was just a matter of supplanting the coloring on the stock ubuntu themes (and adding a dark theme, which was the most work, but still no more than a couple hours overall). Basically, I think UbuntuStudio aims to be a solution for artists, which means they need something that "just works"TM (which ubuntu i
<macinnisrr> s already working on, but that UbuntuStudio needs to address vis-a-vis pulse-jack integration, sane defaults for cinelerra, etc., but also needs good documentation, which is why I want to stay as close to stock ubuntu as possible in the UI, as Ubuntu has tons of documentation and community support), that looks good (which has been my main focus), and that is as functional as commercial alternatives (which the people
<macinnisrr>  working upstream are doing fantastically at. If Ardour3 and gimp 2.8 are released in time, if unity and unity-2d can get the kinks worked out, and if we can create a professional looking UI for Cinelerra, all in time for the next LTS release, we'll be starting to move beyond being "as good as" the windows/apple/adobe/digidesign solutions, and into the realm of being more functional, more customisable, and more affo
<macinnisrr> rdable than all the alternatives)
<ailo_> macinnisrr, I think the pulse-jack part is up for debate, though things like that should be easily accesible through a common interface. Perhaps something that can be inserted into ubuntustudio-controls.
<macinnisrr> ailo_: actually, that's a great idea! Who maintains ubuntustudio-controls?
<ailo_> macinnisrr, Right now it is me, in a way. I've been working on a new version, however my version is not in anyway something to build on other than experience-wise. paultag is helping out with that, and he could probably put some guts into that if he found a time and place for it.
<macinnisrr> aio_: on KXStudio, jack is started before a session, so it's a single-user approach, but, I've written a simple script for Dream Studio that connects pulse to jack after it's started. It currently only works with qjackctl (as it's inserted as the startup command in qjackctl's options), but it wouldn't be hard to put in an option in ubuntustudio-controls for pulse-jack integration, that would move jackdmp (or jackd),
<macinnisrr>  and replace it with a script that would do the pulse shutdown, jack startup, and pulse-jack connection.
<ailo_> I've made a -controls application suitable for Natty, to let the user get realtime privilege. And install restricted extras. My idea was to grow that into a indicator app, that also checks the system during starupt
<ailo_> startup*
<ailo_> I think adding Jack as Desktop audio could perhaps be a little problematic. I would love it, if it worked really well and there were no crashes
<ailo_> I think for jack to work as a Desktop audio system you would need some kind of comprehensive system to control it, partly automatically.
<macinnisrr> ailo_: good idea. I've also been toying with the idea of making an option in ubuntustudio-controls (which IMHO should be renamed Realtime controls, as it's more intuitive and less distribution specific) that would give you a GUI to control PCI latency, as many audio people could use it, and most audio people are not hackers ;)
<ailo_> macinnisrr, Yes, the problem is really getting things to work on all levels. Jack will work fine with audio apps intended for jack, but perhaps not as well with browsers and flash-player. qjackctl is already a way to get into "professional mode" when it comes to audio. PA is not meant for low-latency, neither are probably most things Desktop related.
<ailo_> That is really my main concern, as a user and as a member of this team, that the basic functionality works as well as possible, without hassle
<macinnisrr> ailo_: I wouldn't advocate making JACK the the desktop system, as some people want UbuntuStudio for Graphics only, or video only. I've just seen that many people (including myself) would like to be able to route pulseaudio through JACK when it's being used. As an example case (real world), I'm mixing a song, but I want to reference music from rhythmbox while I'm working on the master. In the current setup, I have to
<macinnisrr>  either use a jack enabled application (which gstreamer is not), of which there are none as easy to use (not to mention not installed by default) as rhythmbox/banshee, or shut down jack (which is incredibly tedious).
<macinnisrr> ailo_: all I'm suggesting (and I've succesfully enacted in Dream Studio), is that if and when JACK is turned on, pulseaudio automatically shuts down to allow JACK to access what is usually the sole audio card, and once JACK has started, pulseaudio resumes and uses JACK sources and sinks for all of its work. Seamless.
<ailo_> macinnisrr, Right now, in Ubuntu Natty, jackd makes PA sleep
<ailo_> In Lucid, I think qjactl did that
<ailo_> In Maverick, I think nothing was affecting PA
<ailo_> If I was using a browser with flash-player, while starting jack in Maveric, it wouldn't work
<ailo_> Not the case in Natty
<ailo_> However, I have no idea how this works, or who makes it work
<ailo_> And, I wouldn't mind putting these options into US-controls
<ailo_> It would be great if US-controls became the "one" place to do all these configurations.
<macinnisrr> ailo_: I actually haven't tried it in natty (as I'd used the aforementioned workaround since Lucid), so it may be fixed now, but I think that at least for ubuntustudio, that what I've mentioned should be the default behavior, but should also be an option in ubuntustudio controls for people who don't want pulse on at all while JACK is running (as I do in a live setup).
<macinnisrr> ailo_: agreed.
<ailo_> I imagine an indicator app, that has a menu with everything you need to change or set settings
<macinnisrr> ailo_: that would be great (especially with the move to unity)
<scott-work> wow, apparently freenode shut down for a while
<holstein> yeah, you got split
<holstein> 15:01 -!- Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: scott-work
<scott-work> oh...the status page said they were also shutting it down for a few minutes
<scott-work> i tried to relog for several minutes when i got back to my desk but it wouldn't connect for a while
<holstein> yeah
<holstein> i lost thelonius for a long time last nite
#ubuntustudio-devel 2011-03-15
<rlameiro> ping ScottL 
<scott-work> TheMuso: did you get an email by chance about this:  https://code.launchpad.net/~mterry/ubuntu-seeds/ubuntustudio.natty-gnome-system-tools/+merge/53420
<scott-work> TheMuso: i would be interested in your opinion if we should accept the merge
<macinnisrr> scott-work: did you get a chance to look over those screenshots/try out the new themes/icons? Also, what is the process now for changing the default wallpaper/theme/iconset?
<scott-work> eh, mac left already
 * scott-work has been in meetings most of the day
<ailo> scott-work, Seems like macinnisrr has done some work with grub appearance as well
<ailo> scott-work, Just looking at his launchpad page
<ailo> Also, I was thinking, should it be announced on the mail list, about his position. And he could also announce his material so everyone can test it
<scott-work> ailo: i agree, i had meant to do some of that during lunch but got pulled into other things :(
<scott-work> i should have time tomorrow during lunch
<TheMuso> scott-work: Just starting on my mail this morning, so will keep an eye out.
<TheMuso> ScottL: Right, that merge proposal comes down to whether you guys want the new date/time indicator.
<TheMuso> As it is, you don't ship any of the indicator infrastructure at all, except for indicator-messages, which doesn't get used anyway.
<TheMuso> SO I think taking mterry's merge proposal is worthwhile at this point.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2011-03-16
<ailo> I've been thinking about whether it would be a good idea to recommend or not recommend certain audio devices. And prepare some sort of support on how to get those working.
<ailo> Seems like it's still one of the main common problems for new users to get into Linux. Just getting sound out is a hazzle.
<ailo> Sadly, I won't have a lot of time to put into it right now. There
<ailo> I see that you've started something along those lines, ScottL https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuStudio/GettingStarted
<ailo> We should really make the "Get Started" part of the documentation a priority.
<ailo> I started working on Documentation. Maybe we could integrate a "sound check" application into UbuntuStudio-controls?
<ailo> Here's an example of an UbuntuStudio-controls indicator app http://imagebin.org/143313
<abogani> cool
<holstein> abogani: mmmm... pretty :)
<holstein> abogani: sorry
<holstein> ailo: ^^
<ScottL> ailo, the indicator looks really cool, awesome even
#ubuntustudio-devel 2011-03-17
<ailo> paultag, Hey.
<ailo> I was just looking into Python libraries. python-pam and python-gksu. Stuff that I should have used over the shell scripts I used for the -controls
<ailo> Anyway, seems like you've been very busy lately.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2011-03-18
<T0rCh__> hello all, I`m back from studio natty to say that the things are a lot better, after a few updates the system looks much more stable ... I`m planning to test the lowlatency kernel.
<T0rCh_raony> ok, I`m back, now using the the lowlatency kernel. The sound looks good still need to learn to test the performance of the system.
<T0rCh_raony> I`m testing the system with jack and sooperlooper
<ailo_> T0rCh_raony, There are nos pecific tests to do, that we share. But, just using jack and the programs you like to use will of course tell something. There are some results posted at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RealTime
<T0rCh_raony> ok, I will try to use ardour, I want to learn how to use all this programs for sound, video and image. thanks all
<ailo_> T0rCh_raony, My conclusion so far is that -lowlatency is working very well, as good as -rt did with Karmic. There is something causing xruns for me using Ubuntu Natty, and jack with 64 frames/period. Probably a network card driver. Other than that, the results are very good.
<ailo_> T0rCh_raony, What audio device are you using?
<T0rCh_raony> I running in a inspiron 1525 with a 00:1b.0 Audio device: Intel Corporation 82801H (ICH8 Family) HD Audio Controller (rev 02)
<T0rCh_raony> I`m planning to buy M-Audio and use the system for live performance.
<ailo_> T0rCh_raony, Laptop, right? Yeah, I use M-Audio Pci cards. Thinking about getting a usb device later for mobile use. M-Audio Fast Track Pro, most porbably.
<T0rCh_raony> exactly this one
<ailo_> I like that card because it has phantom power and requires no extra power. However, I've heard the preamps are not the best, which would be the only downside
<T0rCh_raony> ailo, can you tell me how to test the development of the studio controls from git clone git://gitorious.org/ubuntustudio-controls/ubuntustudio-controls.git  ?
<T0rCh_raony> I just have to put the files at the specific folder and run from the menu ?
<ailo_> T0rCh_raony, You can use all the python files in any folder you like, but if you don't want to edit the code by hand, it will be looking for the shell scripts in /usr/lib/ubuntustudio-controls/
<ailo_> And the two resource files: ubuntustudio-controls.glade, audio.conf. Those should be in /usr/share/ubuntustudio-controls/
<ailo_> T0rCh_raony, After the files I mentioned are in their right folders, just go into the git folder and do ./ubuntustudio-controls
<ailo_> T0rCh_raony, You'll need to install zenity, if it is not already installed
<ailo_> T0rCh_raony, So, 3 shell scripts and 2 resource files need to be put into specific folders.
<T0rCh_raony> ls
<T0rCh_raony> haha sorry
<T0rCh_raony> /bin/sh: /usr/lib/ubuntustudio-controls/gksudo-privilege.sh: not found
<T0rCh_raony> Check if user needs to reboot
<T0rCh_raony> Ok, now close app
<T0rCh_raony> don't think it worked I will try to reboot
<T0rCh_raony> looks very nice the job!!!!
<ailo_> T0rCh_raony, If the gksudo-privilege.sh was not found, you'll need to add it into that folder, though
<ailo_> Otherwise no changes were mase
<ailo_> made*
<ailo_> T0rCh_raony,  All three shell scripts need to go there, did you add them?
<ailo_> T0rCh__, Did you catch my messages?
<ailo_> T0rCh__, Did you put the shell scripts into /usr/lib/ubuntustudio-controls/
<T0rCh__> not yet, I will do this now
<ailo_> Those I would want to replace with Python code. I recently noticed there was a library called python-pam that should take care of that
<ailo_> The super-user privilege, that is
<T0rCh__> works like a charm !
<T0rCh__> I will send some screens
<T0rCh__> https://picasaweb.google.com/raonyguimaraes/StudioNatty1104KernelLowlatencyTestingNewUbuntustudioControls?feat=directlink
<T0rCh__> thanks for the help, I will try to learn more about this code now.
<ailo> T0rCh__, Yes, looks like it's working :P. Perhaps it would be easier to start with a simple GTK python barebone app first? This one has some freaky code, that I don't want to use later anyway.
<T0rCh__> ok
<ailo> T0rCh__, I'm making one based on this app, so only the basic things are left concerning Python, GTK and the glade file.
<ailo> T0rCh__, You should install Glade 3, so you can inspect the glade file too.
<T0rCh__> ok I will try
<ailo> T0rCh__, Ok, here's just enough to start the app, quit it by closing it, and 4 buttons will print text on to the console. http://paste.ubuntu.com/581923/
<ailo> T0rCh__, Should be enough to get a feeling for the GTK part of it
<ailo> T0rCh__, Just realized, the "Apply" button is not active by default. This was done with glade3, so it's not in the code, initially. Anyway, all of the things done with glade3 can be done using code too.
<ailo> or, glade, as it is called
<ailo> T0rCh__, And I guess it goes without saying that the code I just sent you should be used in the same folder with ubuntustudio-controls.glade
<ailo> T0rCh__, So, the code I sent you was enough for me to learn how to make this app. As I said before, I would like to start working on something different for the next version of ubuntustudio-controls. One that could involve more than one app, and a indicator-app as well.
<T0rCh__> I agree, the code looks really very simple. I will spend sometime learning about pygtk and glade to see if I can develop something to help, may be the indicator-app
<ailo> T0rCh__, If you like, you could check out the indicator stuff. I have only started by finding an example app from Ubuntu.  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopExperienceTeam/ApplicationIndicators There is a Python example at the bottom somewhere
<ailo> T0rCh__, From http://www.pygtk.org/ you can learn more about how to build gtk from scratch, which I guess you need to do with the indicator menu a bit.
<ailo> T0rCh__, If you like we can start a common repository and make up some plans on what to work on. I have some ideas, but I haven't put it on paper yet
<ailo> T0rCh__, On gitorious we can create a team, so everyone belonging to that can edit a wiki and push code into the repo. I have an account on github too, but haven't found out so much about how that works yet.
<T0rCh__> for me it's fine :) I use both as well
<T0rCh__> I'm creating a project on gitorious
<T0rCh__> that's you ?
<T0rCh__> http://gitorious.org/~ailo
<T0rCh__> done
<T0rCh__> git clone git://gitorious.org/studiocontrols-indicator-app/studiocontrols-indicator-app.git studiocontrols-indicator-app
<ailo> T0rCh__, Yep. I'm ailo
<ailo> T0rCh__, I added you as a administrator to a new team called ubuntustudio-controls
<T0rCh__> thank you I will check
<ailo> T0rCh__, I added my app to this project.  Here is the wiki page. I think you should be able to edit as well http://gitorious.org/ubuntustudio-controls/pages/Home
<T0rCh__> ok, so from this branch you want to create the new ubuntustudio-contorls based on this same theme, using the same .glade file ?
<T0rCh__> cool stuff http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3_kQdMNN6Y PyGtk base class library for fast app development
<ailo> T0rCh__, Still learning about projects and teams on gitorious. I also started a project called ubuntustudio-controls. We can have different repos for different parts of the project. 
<ailo> T0rCh__, I will probably remove my original repo, and start on new code from scratch.
<T0rCh__> ok. hope i can help somehow :)
<ailo> T0rCh__, paultag talked about making a plugin-able app. That is my thought too. The indicator app can hold other apps
<ailo> T0rCh__, The main app should be setting system preferences, like enabling realtime
<ailo> T0rCh__, But if someone has an idea, for instance we could have a multimedia specific package manager. Then we just add that as a new part of the project, and a new repo.
<ailo> T0rCh__, Don't know how realtime will work in the future. Could be no settings are needed at all.
<ailo> T0rCh__, It's not all that straight forward using gitorious is what I think now :P. Anyway, I will try to get something set up there in the coming day.
<ailo> Now I can't reach my project even. I borked it.
<ailo> T0rCh__, Ok. I added the project ubuntustudio-controls to the group ubuntustudio-controls. I removed my original repo and added a new one: system-preferences. If you like, you could create the indicator repo within the ubuntustudio project.
<ailo> Seems like that would make most sense
<ailo> T0rCh__, Just to clarify, http://gitorious.org/ubuntustudio-controls is the project now owned by the team, so create the repos inside this project. 
 * ckontros waves
<rlameiro> evening everyone
<rlameiro> ScottL: Ping?
<T0rCh_raony> hey
#ubuntustudio-devel 2011-03-19
<ScottL> rlameiro, pong
<rlameiro> hey ScottL finally
<rlameiro> i was Talking wih Ricardo LaFuente
<rlameiro> He said you talked with him
<rlameiro> that is awesome
<rlameiro> I frquent the same "hackerspace" 
<ScottL> hmmm, i's Ricard laFuente "raony" ?
<ScottL> errr, is
<rlameiro> no
<rlameiro> he is from the libre graphics magazine
<ScottL> rlameiro, yes, yes
<rlameiro> his IRC nickname is luluganeta
<ScottL> i started talking with ginger coons and it started to include the libre graphics magazine dev mailing list too (and therefore laFuente by default)
<rlameiro> I think its an awesome idea
<ScottL> i hope so :)
<rlameiro> Maybe we could distribute the libregraphica mag with ubuntu studio or something also
<rlameiro> they do an awesome job
<ScottL> i've just been really busy lately with work and personal stuff and haven't dove into it like i would like to/should
<ScottL> ginger offered a full page ad for us as well
<rlameiro> i get you
<ScottL> we would just need to develop an ad
<rlameiro> i am not beeing very helpfull either lately
<rlameiro> ScottL: how was your RPM chalange?
<rlameiro> did you finished it?
<ScottL> rlameiro, ah, i basically got busy and ran out of time...i actually didn't do any work in the last week or more
<rlameiro> well, family first
<ScottL> some of the stuff was new and pretty good, but a good percentage just didn't get the attention it should
<ScottL> BUT, i wrote another three or four songs that didn't even get onto it because i didn't feel i had
<ScottL> a decent enough recording or had the song thoroughly fleshed out 
<ScottL> i'm hoping after march i can get back working on music and ubuntu studio 
<rlameiro> well, you can work on them when you have more time
<ScottL> rlameiro, did ricardo seem excited about working with ubuntu studio?  what did he tell you?
<rlameiro> He was very excited
<ScottL> rlameiro, yeah...but i think i'll approach the rpm different next year
<rlameiro> even more when he found out that I did try to help US
<ScottL> i'll use it as a songwriting woodshed and then record the songs properly afterwards
<ScottL> heh, that's cool :)
<rlameiro> I asked him what did he tought about redesigning the theme
<rlameiro> and workflows for design
<rlameiro> they surelly know more graphics software than me
<rlameiro> I got the impression that he could help out on the theme
<ScottL> i originally started the emails by asking ginger if she could give some insight on graphic work flows and tool chains
<rlameiro> and is very happy for a distribution to talk to designers :D Well nailed ScottL  :D
<ScottL> haha, that's good :)
<ScottL> and it looks like it might expand into a few other things
<rlameiro> i will speak with him more next week
<rlameiro> they are moving from the space they have
<ScottL> i'll defintely spend some time this weekend working on an announcement for dick mcinnis as art lead and also to respond back to the libre graphics people
<rlameiro> they have a lot of old pc parts and i will try to recycle some stuff
<rlameiro> We had an idea to make a meeting of pd there
<ScottL> eh, gotta go, i'll talk to you later rlameiro , good seeing you again
<rlameiro> and maybe on the future making one about linux and arts
<rlameiro> ScottL: bye :D cya 
<raboof> i think it makes sense that this is needed. it sucks that this seems so hard and ill-documented though.
<raboof> ugh, wrong channel
#ubuntustudio-devel 2012-03-12
<micahg> ScottL: len-nb: nevermind, didn't scroll up far enough
<len-nb> np
<micahg> ScottL: you already pull in the Qt stack with hydrogen, so digikam shouldn't add much more
<micahg> TheMuso: are you comfortable with the lowlatency kernel being a default?
<ScottL> micahg, len-nb : i would be most comfortable waiting for TheMuso 's answer about the -lowlatency support before moving forward
<len-nb> np, I have no opinion either way. No ISO to test so I am playing with a replacement for the bottom panel. It has work flows listed clicking on a workflow replaces the list of workflows with the apps for that workflow.
<ScottL> len-nb, interesting, that sounds very, very similar to what i had considered asking one of the developers to do
<ScottL> i was hoping it could use a couple configuration text files for each work flow, similar to how the old menu worked
<ScottL> len-nb, do you have the menu updated also in your -default-settings package in your branch?
<ScottL> did you remove the any unneeded menu files?
<len-nb> ScottL I had fixed the settings file adding and removing files as needed.
<len-nb> https://code.launchpad.net/~len-ovenwerks/+junk/ubuntustudio-default-settings
<len-nb> However, it does not have your changes of logo files in it.
<len-nb> my workflow app would just use one config file. Each app can either be the name of a desktop file or exec file and label and icon... either one of the last two could be missing.
<ScottL> len-nb, i'm working the menu now, i just wanted to make sure which files were required and that you didn't leave any "legacy" .menu or .directory files :)
<ScottL> i noticed there were various .directory files in the /UbuntuStudio directory along with the /debian, /usr, /etc directories
<ScottL> i wanted to confirm these were the new ones, which i can see they are from going through the changes
<len-nb> ScottL, all the .directory files are used. I kept the two from before and added what I needed.
<len-nb> ScottL I've added a few icons to /usr/share/pixmaps as well I do have a better one for hexter than the one in the package. do you want me to send it?
<ScottL> len-nb, mmmmm, probably not
<ScottL> oh, i need to file a sync request as well for mudita24 now that alessio has uploaded the latest version in debian
<len-nb> ok, I made that one up, but I found the right one when I loaded US 10.04. I have it saved on the desktop downstairs.
<micahg> ScottL: it's already in precise
<ScottL> micahg, the latest version?  quadrispro said he just did it yesterday (or very early today)
<micahg> yep :)
<micahg> uploaded ~2 hrs ago
<ScottL> super cool!  one less thing to do :-D
<ScottL> micahg, i really would like to wait to update the meta's until we hear from luke, even if it is delayed a few days
<micahg> ScottL: sure, no problem
<ScottL> i would also like to use that time to adjust a few things that are not in the right place and add a few more smaller items to support the work flows
<ScottL> nothing structural, mind you
<TheMuso> micahg, ScottL, its not really up to me, I am just helping with kernel maintenance. I have run the kernel for a while without issue, so if you want it as default, I don't really have a problem with that.
<micahg> TheMuso: ScottL: I would say it should only be default if there's a commitment to upload almost in step with any kernel security uploads (which will require coordination with the Ubuntu security team), if someone is committed to preparing these source packages, I don't have any objection, otherwise, you're opening users up to possible security issues
<ailo> ScottL: I'm perfectly willing to maintain the kernel myself. It seems like a simple deal from what I understand, since the diff is only a few config options (which I wouldn't expect to change during the course of LTS), and even if preparing the kernel is a bit more than just adding those configs, it doesn't seem like there's that much to learn in order to maintain it.
<ailo> I would commit not only to maintain it, but to understand each step in doing so
<ailo> Would need to be updated on the procedure. 
<ailo> TheMuso: And coordinating with Ubuntu is not something I know a lot about either, so..
<ailo> I would at least like to give it a try, but I would need some help getting started
<ailo> I could start by doing maintenance paralell to the real effort, and if it works out, I would willingly take it over
<shnatsel> what the hell is going on
<shnatsel> sorry
<shnatsel> wrong channel]
<knome> >__<
<ScottL> micahg, the blueprint has items for me working with jjhonansen and someone else to set up the git repo, UKT setting up lowlatency as a derivative or something to make this easier, and then working out the methodology for doing security
 * ScottL is finding the link to the bluepring
<ScottL> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-p-lowlatency
<ScottL> micahg, but cxan you still give me at least 18 hours to make the other changes to seeds before updating the meta?
<scott-work> can someone help me suss out the icons a bit?  i don't really like the way the cursor looks when it hovers over a link
<scott-work> i thought i was doing this like xubuntu so i'm slightly confused, anyone have some time to help with this?
<micahg> ScottL:  sure
<scott-work> oh micahg, i also wanted to solicit your help with a postinst file for implementing sane default settings for jack
<scott-work> i know what the file should be, i know where it shoudl go, i just need to develop the code in the postinst file to make sure it's not overwritting something already created by the user
<scott-work> micahg:  if you can point me in at least a general direction on both of these issues that would be awesome :)
<scott-work> micahg: i'm surprised you are awake currently, i thought it was very, very early morning for you
<scott-work> so, holstein, as i said ;)...
<scott-work> i tested the new menu last night/this morning
<scott-work> i'll tweak it a bit then push to bzr tonight
<scott-work> len was a big help (HUGE help) on this
<scott-work> also len has changes for the panel
<scott-work> i'll do that next which shouldn't take long
<holstein> len: :)
<scott-work> i'm trying to work with cjwatson on the preseed/ubiquity/no -rt privileges issue
<scott-work> and i want to get some help with the ubiquity installer background/text color issue as well
<scott-work> bug #923810
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 923810 in casper (Ubuntu) "preseeding passwd/user-default-groups is ineffective" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/923810
<scott-work> bug #952462
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 952462 in Ubuntu Studio "Ubuntustudio 12.04 installer has unreadable text" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/952462
<scott-work> hopefully, micahg can help me with the cursor issue and also getting the jack default settings resolves as well
<scott-work> i have a list of other things i *shoudl* be doing as well, but those are the things on top of my head right now
<scott-work> oh, and i figure we will postpone the ubquitiy plugin until next cycle
<scott-work> too little time and probably too much testing/fixing/texting cycles required for this cycle
<scott-work> plus this doesn't preclude me from getting other things done then
<scott-work> i have dick mackinnis's licensing now for his images so i'll move to include those now
<scott-work> he is trying to work up another image that i've been talking to him about, so that might happen as well
<scott-work> plymouth theme will probably remain unchanged and the lightdm greeter will continue to look like it is currently (i.e. not that great)
<scott-work> but the lightdm greeter theme that happens in precise+1 i would like to backport to precise to help further refine 12.04
<scott-work> i really want 12.04 to be THE definitive release that people talk about for years
<scott-work> oh, i'm tweaking the seeds as well
<scott-work> some of it is adding some packages that weren't put in yet (thanks astraljava for adding audacity) that better support the work flows
<scott-work> but also some of it is just OCD organizing for next cycle when we further define more tasks/work flows
<scott-work> this might include something like a "video-home" and "video-pro" tasks/work flows
<holstein> whats the ubiquity plugin aain?
<holstein> again?
<scott-work> it's the part of the installer that allows the user to select which tasks they want to install, the gui version of tasksel, basically
<scott-work> right now all the tasks (or seeds) are being installed
<holstein> scott-work: i dont think that bad though
<scott-work> it's not
<holstein> i mean, we could just give an pre-determined environment
<holstein> i think thats *quite* an improvement
<scott-work> but if we really get the tasks refined and with a lot of options then it might be though
<holstein> the best thing about it is that it will work
<holstein> i dont know how many times choosing something from that list in the debian installer would cause the installer to fail
<scott-work> but that wasn't the installers fault, i believe, it was the meta file and dependencies
<scott-work> holstein: but if we go with a pre-defined environment, it would be nice to give users a solution to install other tasks later on
<holstein> sure, but i hope that wont be an issue now
<holstein> i hope the install "just works"
<holstein> and looks/feels like the other ones
<scott-work> one that's easier that "open synaptic -> serach for "ubuntustudio-*" -> install soemthign you like"
<scott-work> it would be nice if it was coupled with the work flows
<holstein> scott-work: yeah, or the software-center... we have that?
<scott-work> i have it on my short list to include in the seeds
<holstein> not that i care... i could go either way about it
<holstein> not that i care... i could go either way about having the software center**
<scott-work> i should have be there already, i had intended it to be there along with synaptic
<scott-work> s/i/it
<micahg> scott-work: re awake, 9AM meetings do that :)
<micahg> scott-work: the lightdm theme could be backported in -backports, but that wouldn't be allowed on any point release images
<micahg> scott-work: as for the postinst, I'll have to find a good guide for that
<scott-work> micahg: good point about backports, in this case i would persue an SRU then to make sure it gets into the point releases
<micahg> scott-work: you can't SRU new packages except in rare circumstances
<scott-work> oh :(
<scott-work> so, i'm thinking i shoudl make a dummy package called ubuntustudio-ubiquity-greeter for precise then :P
<scott-work> j/k
<scott-work> falktx:  can you talk a bit about helping studio get a few things done for 12.04?
<falktx> hey
<falktx> scott-work: I'm a bit busy, but I can help on small things I know how to do
<scott-work> falktx: there were two issues:  rolling some user themes into an existing package and maybe getting a prettier lightdm greeter theme
<scott-work> falktx:  i would be happy with whatever help you can provide
<scott-work> but don't feel bad about saying that these are too involved or you have too little time :)
<falktx> I think I can check #1 at least
<falktx> scott-work: what is the bzr repo link?
<scott-work> falktx: can i email you?  i will need to include information from other emails
<falktx> scott-work: yes, sure
<micahg> scott-work: I still need to show you how to look at the security history of your packages (sorry for not doing this yesterday)
<scott-work> micahg: it's okay, my yesterday afternoon was pretty non-ubuntu-work-on-computer until later in the evening because of the kids
<scott-work> they like the minecrafts and i've run out of computers that can run them :P
<scott-work> i've decided that i need a dedicated, persistant, non-powerful computer downstairs (maybe in my bedroom) for development
<scott-work> this works well since i like to keep another computer for testing the current development release and i tend to build with ppa
<scott-work> the kids tend to overun my upstairs room (indeed, it is my oldest son's room who lives with his mother) and if they aren't using the computers they tend to distract me otherwsie
<len_> scott-work, are you adding a DVD authoring app? As I have personally found out, lots of people don't know how to transfer a video by net.
<scott-work> len_: yes, i did some research and found a single one to be head and shoulders above others, i need to look back at it
<scott-work> my research was months ago though
<scott-work> len_: i expect to be updating the seeds (hopefully) one last time (for a bit)
<len_> OK, needs to be in repo too.
<len_> scott-work, one other comment (aside from we have had no power all morning) it is ok to include more apps than less with the more organized menu.
<scott-work> i agree
<len_> Disk space is less of a problem than in the past... Getting stuff out of the way while looking for the app needed has been more of a problem
<len_> Anyway downloading todays iso... 16% different from the last one.
<scott-work> cjwatson is updating the -rt privileges issue as well today, but it probably will not be seen until tomorrow or so
<len_> scott-work NP, I do lots of downloads anyway. The live image is very representative of what is there. I do have issues if I try to run too many apps at once because of memory ;-)
<len-nb> scott-work, Lots of new photography apps. Nice. Also a problem, it seems a lot of them do not include the category photography in their desktop file and so end up in the graphics menu.
<len-nb> It looks like the "in-elegant" manual method of assigning apps to where they belong will be needed. 
<len-nb> mudit24 needs to excluded from multimedia and included in audio production mixers.
<scott-work> len-nb: ack
<scott-work> which is short for acknowledged, btw :)
<len-nb> scott-work I would suggest envy24 could be exclued from everywhere
<scott-work> should i just 'brute force' exlcude all photography items in graphics?
<len-nb> Ja... I got that. scott-work I will send you a few pictures by email to show where things ended up.
<scott-work> that would help, aye
<len-nb> Brute force is the only way... too late to file lots of bugs...
<scott-work> what i meant by brute force was should i just do all of them or was it few enough to be more surgical about what to remove?
<len-nb> scott-work I would just do what is needed. The ones that are not photography category should be bugged as well... same with mixers BTW.
<len-nb> In my opinion a desktop file without proper category tags is a bug.
<scott-work> len-nb: would you like to help me fix these bugs?
<len-nb> Is it the right thing to do? bug a lot of developers? If I was going to do that, I would want to be able to upload a fix and I don't have the time right now for all of them.
<len-nb> scott-work, email sent to your gmail acc.
<scott-work> len-nb: depends on the package, but we might either do the bug report in ubuntu or preferrably in debian
<scott-work> but i gotta go, so i'll catch you when i'm at home
<len-nb> np
<astraljava> You can create a debdiff and attach it in a bug report against the package in debian.
<len-nb> astraljava, in the case of the above, it would be a replacement desktop file that includes the right sub-category.
<len-nb> There are some other considerations, none of them are really "wrong".
<len-nb> The spec has a set of "mandatory" categories that reflect the standard linux menu. But then there are a bunch of optional sub-categories.
<len-nb> The word optional means the SW writer can use them or not as they choose.
<len-nb> This effectively means it is questionable if they are really a bug.
<astraljava> len-nb: A bug can be filed even though there's nothing "really" wrong with the file. It's just a way of making a change, and tracking it.
<astraljava> len-nb: And the whole file doesn't need to be replaced, if there are only changes in one category, or (an) additional row(s).
<astraljava> len-nb: Hence I suggested the debdiff.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2012-03-13
<ScottL> micahg, i'm about thirty minutes from having the seeds updated (hopefully finally)
<ScottL> micahg, seeds updated
<abogani> TheMuso: I'm going to drop Tim's changes to -lowlatency because those prevent git rebase.
<ailo> abogani: Are you going to do the rebase?
<abogani> No. I'm try to fix problems introduced by UKT.
<abogani> For example git's rebasing and merging don't work.
<ailo> abogani: So it's a problem with git?
<ailo> Also, will UKT upload -lowlatency tags into the main kernel git tree, or does the -lowlatency source need to be separate?
<abogani> ailo: The second one.
<abogani> The lowlatency kernel in official repo is 18.17. The kernel in my git tree is 16.25. Is this some sort of black magic?
<abogani> It seems to me that kernel is maintained by someone else.
<abogani> that make me very happy ;)
<ailo> abogani: Sorry for my stupid question before. I'm looking into this just out of my own curiousity, and downloaded the Ubuntu kernel source. I see it has tags for all versions, but not flavors. Anyway, I'll just read on to get a better picture.
<ailo> abogani: I'm still wondering about the maintenance of the kernel however. Not sure how it all sums up. I take it that the new source for -lowlatency will be similar to the git source you have been maintaining? And, I assume one person, or group of people maintain that source, while someone else pulls from it and uploads to the repo?
#ubuntustudio-devel 2012-03-14
<len-nb> ScottL and others, Todays iso (mar13) won't install. Install hangs... see email list for more info. g'night
<micahg> ScottL: replacing the headers isn't sufficient to replace the kernel
 * micahg should pay more attention to commits
<astraljava> micahg: When you have time, please point me to the correct address on finding more out of this us-meta handling. I'm especially puzzled by bug #954468, I cannot find the postinst script anywhere.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 954468 in ubuntustudio-meta (Ubuntu) "package ubuntustudio-audio (not installed) failed to install/upgrade: subprocess new pre-installation script returned error exit status 1" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/954468
<knome> hoi astraljava :)
<knome> how are you?
<astraljava> o/
<astraljava> So-so.
<astraljava> You?
<knome> how did the interviews go?
<astraljava> It was fine, but you never know about these things, so I'm still looking.
<knome> mmh, okayish too, wondering if i should apply for a job too :P
<astraljava> Business been slow recently?
<knome> yeah. a few weeks has been really slow. i'm working on stuff again though
<knome> and it's more about mental health than money issues :P
<knome> i, and especially wife, think(s) that i need to get out of the house more :P
<astraljava> Alright, well, good luck with that. It's a little easier for you, though. There are tons of web dev jobs out there, ones I cannot apply for.
<astraljava> Ahh... ok.
<astraljava> I can understand that.
<knome> well i'm not applying for those. i want to do web dev on my own :)
<astraljava> knome: Have a look at #952462, some of your guys could probably help us with that.
<astraljava> Erhm... bug #952462.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 952462 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Ubuntustudio 12.04 installer has unreadable text" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/952462
<knome> astraljava, yeah. poke ochosi
<astraljava> Colin mentions Xfce's session handling in one of the bug comments.
<astraljava> Ok, thanks.
<knome> afaik that's simply a theming issue
<knome> but hey, how do i know... i didn't fix it :)
<scott-work> micahg: ack'd
 * scott-work feels kinda stupid about that one
<scott-work> hi knome 
<knome> hey scott-work :)
<scott-work> how are you this....early afternoon?
<astraljava> Heheh, you're getting better at this. :)
<knome> okayish, as i were a few mins ago when astraljava asked ;)
<astraljava> Hmm... supermario has commented on it, with a probable fix. I might look into this later today.
<knome> mmh
<astraljava> maybe_ubiquity. Who comes up with these package names?! :D
<knome> super mario scored 4 goals yesterday
<knome> champions league, bayern vs. basel
<astraljava> I watched the other game.
<astraljava> Well, drowsed through rather than watched.
<knome> b/b vas really entertaining
<scott-work> i probably should look at the repeating bug reports for etiher ubuntustudio-menu or ubuntustudio-audio packages
<scott-work> but so many other things to do currently to get 12.04 ready :/
<astraljava> Could have been, I just knew I wasn't gonna survive it anyhow, so felt it woulda been wrong to even try and watch it.
<astraljava> scott-work: I'll try and work on the bugs, cause it's about the only thing I can do at the moment.
<astraljava> scott-work: You can concentrate on the more important issues.
<scott-work> i think i'd like to summarize all the effort we went through this cycle at some point, make a post about it
<scott-work> there was a lot of effort this cycle, probably more so than the last three combined
<knome> speaking of effort, where are we with the website?
<astraljava> scott-work: Is the ubiquity tasks selection available in the installer nowadays?
<astraljava> scott-work: I see pitti commenting on my bug, but I haven't had time to check the image so far.
<knome> also, scott-work, did you do some changes to the slideshow branch under ubuntustudio team? i need to push those to the main branch
<scott-work> astraljava: no, i really haven't pushed it at this point and was resigned to this happening next cycle
<scott-work> knome: i have made any appreciable progress on the website
<astraljava> scott-work: Ok, I'm fine with that. It really didn't get that much love this cycle, sorry about that.
<scott-work> knome: i want to finish the menu/panels tonight, then hopefully by weekend i will have changes for the slideshow, i'm about 1/2 way there now but would like to review what i did...
<scott-work> i know that my text for the audio slide was waaaay too specific, especially as i moved into video and graphics
<astraljava> Wonder why a lot of the bugs show installation media as Xubuntu 12.04 LTS "Precise Pangolin" - Alpha i386 (20120303), when installing ubuntustudio-audio.
<scott-work> astraljava: i was wondering about that as well
<scott-work> knome:  when would the cut off be for getting the slide stuff done
 * scott-work wishes he was secretely wealthy and didn't have to actually work to support himself and could dedicated to more enjoyable persuits...like music, art, and ubuntu studio ;)
<knome> scott-work, i suppose language pack deadlines, but if you can make it happen by beta2, that would be good
<knome> scott-work, should check all this with dylan mccall if you want a specific date
<astraljava> scott-work: I'm pretty sure you're not alone with that wish.
<astraljava> Damnit, I have no idea how to debug these ubuntustudio-meta related bugs. Where can I find the source file for editing depends/recommends, for instance? I'm pretty sure we'd need to add python-changesettings to depends so that us-audio's rtprio.py won't fail because of missing module for import changesettings.
 * astraljava goes outside while it's still nice and sunny
 * knome goes eating before the headache starts
<scott-work> sometimes it is frustrating though, i might leave work late, get the kids home, cook dinner, get daughter to do homework, clean up kitchen/house, and then....
<scott-work> a) just get really fooking tired
<scott-work> b) have to deal with one of the kids either acting bad or just needing attention
<scott-work> c) or realize it's already time for bed
<scott-work> i have all these things piling up that i want to get done and i feel the pressure quite acutely, but sometimes there just isn't enough time
<scott-work> astraljava: hmmmm, for precise we removed rtprio.py because it appeared to be trying to solve the same problem that was addressed by jack with the debconf question about -rt privileges
<scott-work> and actually doing it wrong now ;)
<scott-work> i.e. it was creating the old configure file, i'll find it
<scott-work> if set, it should be located in /etc/security/limits.d/audio.conf now instead of /etc/security/limits.conf 
<scott-work> that was a quote from somewhere (actually my quote)
<scott-work> but it looked like rtprio.py was settings the limits.conf file and jack/debcon was using audio.conf (which i presume to be the "correct" way since it is a new implementation)
<scott-work> at some point i had wanted to see if any new plugin packages were added since last cycle
<scott-work> i wonder if there is an easy way to see which packages have been added recently
<scott-work> sorry, i realize i was whinging earlier
<knome> scott-work, np :P
<scott-work> well, i just i have an admission to make as well...
<scott-work> (queue suspensful music)
<scott-work> *dum dum dummmmmm*
<scott-work> i've been kinda working on another, but similar and aligned, project
<scott-work> although it hasn't really taken much time at this point
<scott-work> what i'm working on is a drupal website that will focus on showing people how to create media or content with libre tools
<scott-work> it's kinda a crappy website (really!) at the moment
<scott-work> and i've only just recorded my first video for it which i set ffmpeg to convert to image sequence last night
<scott-work> but i want it to be not *just* a blog, i want video to be a big (at least equal to text) part of it
<scott-work> but i should note that i really haven't spent much time on it at all at this point, and i wouldn't say that it is causing any appreciable delays in studio development
<scott-work> this really scratches a creative itch that i've had for a while
<scott-work> and i'm not going to stress or be concerned over how well produced everything is in the beginning
<scott-work> i'll keep refining various aspects over time
<scott-work> but the main thing is that i just want to *start*
<knome> you really want to use drupal?
<scott-work> i have to admit that i do not have any preference at this point, knome.  my exposure to both wordpress and drupal are extremely limited
<scott-work> however, my vps offers a turnkey drupal installation, that was the deciding factor
<knome> hmph. installing wordpress is easy even if you had to do it yourself
<scott-work> it's kinda nice, i go to their panel, select another installation (perhaps wiki or trac) and 1.3936853 minutes later you have a working install on the net
<scott-work> http://fossmusicproject.org/ is where it is at currently
<scott-work> the real catalyst for this was seeing a this drupal theme somewhere and i said to myself, "self, that wouldn't be bad for that thing you want to do" and so i spent part of a saturday evening doing it
<knome> heh
<scott-work> the video that is already there is just a proof-of-concept video that i did in about 4 hours (including setting up video and green screen) with blender
<scott-work> it is also a proof-of-concept that i could show videos on drupal :P
<astraljava> scott-work: That's alarming, then, as it is still there in the ubuntustudio-meta package.
<astraljava> scott-work: re: rtprio.py
<astraljava> At least one bug is because of this.
<scott-work> astraljava: i thought i worked with micahg to get it removed :(  i cannot recall the specifics of what we did at this moment, but i do remember feeling like we had "fixed" it
<scott-work> hmmmmm.....maybe we removed it from being called during configuration but not removed from the seeds
<astraljava> scott-work: I just apt-get source'd ubuntustudio-audio, and there it was still.
<astraljava> scott-work: A-ha, ok, so then maybe the bug is fixed already.
<ttoine> hi scott-work 
<scott-work> hello ttoine!  :-D
<astraljava> scott-work: If you can point me to where this was resolved, I could mark the bug as fix released.
<astraljava> Hi Antoine! LTNS!
<scott-work> hmmm, astraljava , i can do that,but it would be later today during my lunch as i would need to research a few things, but i think it was in the default-settings package perhaps
<ttoine> just see your invitation to come on the channel
<ttoine> it's been a while since I came here last time
<astraljava> scott-work: It's fine, it's just a little learning experience as well, so no rush.
<astraljava> It's certainly been a while since I last saw that nick. :) Probably in some logs I was combing through recently. :)
<scott-work> i think ttoine had a differing of opinion with cory about things, at least that is what i have gathered from mailing list archives
<scott-work> but i'm glad he's back....oops, he's gone again :P
<scott-work> astraljava: well, now i'm concerned that we didn't really "fix" this problem
<astraljava> scott-work: Yeah, that was why he left way back then.
<astraljava> The Original Three has all vanished now. (10 points for getting the reference there)
<astraljava> scott-work: I'm talking about the bug #942136 re: rtprio.py
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 942136 in ubuntustudio-meta (Ubuntu) "package ubuntustudio-audio 0.90 failed to install/upgrade: subprocess new pre-installation script returned error exit status 1" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/942136
<astraljava> scott-work: I will try to verify this soon, but my test machines are all in poor conditions at the moment.
<astraljava> condition*
<ttoine> re
<scott-work> hi again ttoine 
<ttoine> xchat don't support the launcher of unity... so come back with xchat-gnome
<ttoine> scott-work, are you going to release a new version of Ubuntu Studio ?
<scott-work> ttoine: yes, we are working on 12.04 currently
<ttoine> great
<ttoine> I made several trials for audio recording. the current lowlatency is not good enough, but the realtime from abogani is great. without support of restricted drivers unfortunately
<ttoine> I already started to rewrite the UbuntuStudioPreparation page on the community wiki
<astraljava> ttoine: What do you think about using Xubuntu as the base for US now?
<ttoine> I don't know. I always though that the DE has to be the choice of the user
<ttoine> For myself, I use Unity and find it cool for a day to day use. But it seems that compiz asks for too much power and may be bad for realtime applications, meaning audio, of course
<ttoine> but as a lot of Linux users for multimedia production do it on old hardware, it is a good choice
<ttoine> on the french forum linuxmao.org, many howtos are based on Xfce
<ttoine> scott-work, astraljava, for this release, what were the main focuses ??
<astraljava> ttoine: Probably the switching to use a live-dvd has been the biggest difference.
<astraljava> ttoine: Other things have been smaller tweakings, to provide more pleasing and stable release as compared to 11.10.
<astraljava> ttoine: You can see the attempted goals in the blueprints @ https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/topic-precise-flavor-ubuntu-studio
<ttoine> I am going to read that.
<ttoine> Great to see that a live dvd is "on the road"... I always was for that
<astraljava> ttoine: Progress has been tracked in at least some of them.
<ttoine> someone is working on the website ?
<scott-work> ttoine: yes, stochastic and i are basically ignoring the website currently, much to knome 's consternation
<astraljava> ttoine: scott-work and knome have been working on it, some others maybe as well.
<astraljava> Haha.
<scott-work> but work has been done and will continue to be as other things get done
<scott-work> ttoine: i am developing a "long plan" for ubuntu studio
<scott-work> this and the next cycle are basically what i am terming "foundations"
<ttoine> ok. It seems a bit broken in Chrome. If you need help, don't hesitate. I will have more time from now, I am jobless and will try to start a business
<scott-work> we are getting the distro truly functional for a baseline of people
<scott-work> this cycle has been donig more internal stuff with the OS
<ttoine> scott-work, it it possible to have a look on this "long plan" ?
<scott-work> some of that will continue into the next cycle, but i would like a majority of the next cycle to focus on documentation and developing a proper testing procedure
<scott-work> absolutely, ttoine 
<scott-work> given the limited amount of progress that can be accomplished by a small group in a single cycle, i think it is imperative
<ttoine> so for documentation I will do my best to help. Look at the UbuntuStudioPreparation, I started to write about all multimedia, not only audio.
<scott-work> i would like to start exploring how we can further improve the user experience in starting a new project (audio, video, graphic) or opening an existing one
<ttoine> scott-work, I agree. A long plan is the best.
<scott-work> ttoine: also, i want video (film work, not just home movies) with post production and compositing to be a big part
<scott-work> i have also been trying to solicit information about how we can better support graphic artists
<scott-work> things like using git to host and develop a print magazine (ala libre graphics magazine)
<scott-work> these will be rolled into work flows developered for certain tasks and then made into seeds which the user can choose to install (or not!) during installation via gui
<scott-work> in some cases, i.e. better project management for new/existing projects, we will explore many options, e.g. gladish, creating scripts, or possible even pushing innovation to nedko or paul perhaps
<scott-work> i think a pretty expansive PR campaign once some of these aspects are more developed would greatly benefit ubuntu studio, ubuntu, and linux in general
<scott-work> this might be in a year
<scott-work> and we would just need to comment about what is possibel with ubuntu studio in whatever forums or groups we know about
<scott-work> i ran across a DSLR film making website, that's perfect!
<scott-work> even an animae remix webstie
<scott-work> i listen to several podcasts that i want to send information, including the twit network
<scott-work> but we need ubuntu studio to work well for certain use cases and have developed the user documentation to support them
<scott-work> and lastely, in my opinion, we need a video presence to really accomplish proper PR in an effective sense
<ttoine> I always though that we must focus on some use case, the ones we can manage as a small team
<scott-work> aye
<ttoine> and use the website to manage a community
<scott-work> i agree
<scott-work> i also want to foster discussions later this cycle/early next cycle about where our documentation should be
<ttoine> It was not possible with the previous leader, that was the main purpose of my retirement of ubuntu studio
<scott-work> the documetnation could either continue to be on help.ubuntu.com or could go on the new website, there are pros and cons for both
<ttoine> I think that if we are using Drupal of something like that for the main website, the main documentation should be on the website
<ttoine> but if we do some documentation on the website, it as to be limited on our main focus use cases, and it has to be illustrated
<ttoine> not only command line, like on the help wiki
<scott-work> ttoine:  i hope people find that i am open to contributions by others, i have to be as i am neither a robust developers, not have excessive time
<ttoine> as a lot of people. We all have to work to pay the bill and meal for the family, scott
<scott-work> i tend to not blindly trust the work of others, i am responsible for ubuntu studio.  however, once trust is built then i do tend to not worry
<scott-work> and i think it is not disingenuous to state that a majority of the develoment/improvements are done by me, which is not an optimal situation
<scott-work> so i do welcome people who can effectively help :)
<scott-work> i also admit that the plans and blueprints for precise were create by me without much input from others, however for the Q cycle i would like to greatly increase the input from others
<ttoine> you don't need to justify
<ttoine> you have done a lot and it's great
<ttoine> As you may know, I don't know a lot about application development and packaging. but i can do a lot about testing, writing docs in english and french
<ttoine> working on the website too, although I am very good on Wordpress, not on Drupal
<astraljava> But our website seems to be WP, not Drupal. Unless I've misunderstood something.
<ttoine> astraljava, I won't be so sure. I looked at the source code, and the theme is not where it should be if it would be a wordpress theme
<astraljava> view-source:https://staging.ubuntustudio.org/ -- <meta name="generator" content="WordPress 3.3.1" />
<astraljava> But, IANAWD.
<ttoine> the staging.ubuntustudio.org uses WP. not the ubuntustudio.org
<ttoine> astraljava, the staging.ubuntustudio.org is the work for the next website ?
<astraljava> Hmm... hasn't gone live, yet, then?
<ttoine> astraljava, some one is working on a WP theme ?
<astraljava> ttoine: Don't ask me, I don't work on the web stuff at all. Try knome or scott-work.
<ttoine> ok
<ttoine> scott-work, what is the staging.ubuntustudio.org ? Is some one working on a WP theme ?
<scott-work> astraljava: ttoine :  the existing website is in drupal, the new website (for which knome was vastly instrumental) is in word press
<scott-work> and as astraljava pointed out the new site is in staging :)
<astraljava> scott-work: When's it going live, then? At release time?
<ttoine> do knome need help ?
<scott-work> astraljava: i suppose after we get most of the content in there :/  which will probably be close to release time i predict
<astraljava> scott-work: ACK.
<scott-work> ttoine: my understanding is that knome is more or less just waiting for me (and stochastic ) to fill in the content, i do have a vision but not time currently to do this
<astraljava> scott-work: Note, I wasn't criticising anything, just didn't know the status of it. :)
<ttoine> scott-work,  but at the moment there is no theme... so the problem is not only content...
<scott-work> astraljava: heheh, i didn't take it any other way, my friend :)
<scott-work> ttoine: there is a theme, i know that knome was working with RT about fixing some issue with the staging area, but i can see the theme using firefox :/
 * scott-work is away in a meeting
<ttoine> scott-work, ok. So maybe I will have a chat with knome as he come on the channel.
<ttoine> I may help him to fix the theme
<astraljava> Hmm... got a new temp job for the rest of the week, so I'll work on the bugs over the weekend.
<knome> ttoine, https://staging.ubuntustudio.org/
<astraljava> knome: How many times do I need to tell you, pay attention! We've established that much already. :D
<knome> heh
<knome> astraljava, but ttoine said there's no theme, so he must've been looking at http://
<astraljava> Ok, but I did paste sources from the secured protocol. Alright, you win this time. *snarl*
<knome> ;))
<knome> the source for non-secure would say the same
<knome> ;]
<astraljava> As that one not-to-be-named company recently made the decision on switching from joomla to WP, and now it's going to be the platform-of-choice for US, it seems to be where it's at nowadays. So do you have a site or e-book or whathaveyou to recommend on it?
<astraljava> I will have to gain considerably more knowledge regarding it.
<knome> astraljava, the WP codex is good... :P
<astraljava> ...which is?
<knome> http://codex.wordpress.org/
<astraljava> Ok, thanks!
<knome> basically it's the online docs
<astraljava> Figured as much. Alright, something to read during the weekend. Thanks a lot! I'll head off to bed now, going to wake up and watch the Ducks' games before work.
<knome> oki, good night
<astraljava> Thanks, same to you (in about those 11 hours when you go to sleep). Was nice to see Tom Hanks being a Kings fan. :) Ok, off now for realsies.
<knome> hahah :D
<scott-work> happy pie day, btw
<scott-work> errr, 'pi' day
 * knome 'd like some pie
<ailo> scott-work: Might as well call it pie day
<ailo> A lot of people baking pie today
<len_> ailo, the two are related after all...
<ailo> len_: Yep
<ailo> I baked bread myself
<ailo> Square shaped
<ailo> Well, viewed from the top
<len_> I only do that saturday... mine are odd shaped, each one different.
<len_> I'm going to see if todays iso is any better than yesterdays.
<ScottL> len_, i would be curious about that too, micahg never mentioned that the kernel issue was fixed
 * ScottL is looking at the seeds
 * ScottL didn't mean to imply that it is micah's responsibility as it is not, it is mine
<ScottL> seeds look the same, i'm guessing today's images are not going to work either
#ubuntustudio-devel 2012-03-15
<ScottL> len_, if you answered in the last thirty minutes or so, my daughter closed xchat :/
<ScottL> astraljava, the ubiquity installer background/text bug, i think i have an answer for that
<ScottL> this is per xubuntu:
<ScottL> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/ubuntu-seeds/xubuntu.precise/view/head:/live has the 'xubuntu-live-settings' package in the seed
<ScottL> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/precise/xubuntu-default-settings/precise/files has /casper/48xubuntu_maybe_ubiquity
<ScottL> i believe we get both of these installed then we should fix this
<ScottL> micahg, TheMuso:  do either of you know how i can make the -lowlatency kernel be installed on the image properly?  should i ask in #ubuntu-devel?
<ScottL> i remember changing the seeds with persia to transition from the -rt kernel to the -generic, but that might have been that the -rt was just shipped but not installed
<ScottL> which makes sense, given perspective
<TheMuso> ScottL: It was different with the alternate CD, let me look at the seeds for studio now.
<ScottL> thank you!  very, very much :)
<len-live> install (mar 14) failed same way as yesterday filed bug #955617 
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 955617 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "ubiquity hangs (no activity forever) at configuring target system" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/955617
<TheMuso> ScottL: Ok this is not something thag that needs changing in the seeds, not for a live DVD at any rate. The livecd-rootfs package needs updating to use the lowlatency kernel for studio.
<ScottL> TheMuso, should i ping cjwatson tomorrow morning?
<TheMuso> ScottL: I don't have time to do that right now, as I am in the middle of something, but if I get around to it, and someone hasn't done it already, I will make the needed change.
<ScottL> TheMuso, thank you, i'll ping cjwatson in the morning if you haven't told me it's fixed, which is about 11 hours hence
<len-nb> ScottL, scott-upstairs, my main reason for trying todays iso was to file the bug report. I am not sure if the ubiquity problem is ours... I am not sure how to tell for that matter.
<len-nb> Comment on the webpage at staging. The download page mentions burning a DVD several times. There are getting to be more and more machines that have no dvd burner/reader. Making some mention of installing from a usb stick might be a good idea.
<len-nb> This ^^^ is talking about the download page. Says "Users must burn the ISO images to DVD". might add "or write to a USB memory stick"
<scott-upstairs> len-nb, the ubiquity background/text issue appears to be a quantified problem, we just need to add some files to seeds and default-settings package
<scott-upstairs> len-nb, i am presuming the uninstallable aspect is because of the kernel snafu (i.e. me changing the seeds for lowlatency headers), luke says he is looking at this when he has time, although i will poke cjwatson tomorrow morning if nothing is resolved by then
<len-nb> scott-upstairs, ok... I haven't had a background issue though. I can see all the text. I have been able to since you fixed the default session.
<scott-upstairs> len-nb, good comments about the burn dvd comments, at the time we only had alternate which was a bit buggy with usb sticks
<scott-upstairs> len-nb, i found that if you choose to install directly from the first menu then you see the ubiquity background/text problems
<scott-upstairs> if you let the live dvd boot and then choose to install the problem doesn't manifest
<len-nb> Ah, ok.
<len-nb> scott-upstairs it looks like all the apps are there for this cycle now?
<scott-upstairs> i think so, but i'm having second thoughts about digikam, it alone pulls in 375MB of dependencies, including quite a bit of qt libraries that even qjackctl or whatever else we have don't
<scott-upstairs> now if i can just remember where the default-settings package actually sets the menu (by filename) :P
<len-nb>  Can anything else do the job? I think that would be best for someone who uses linux for photo work to answer.
<len-nb> the menu file is /etc/xdg/xdg-ubuntustudio/menus/application.menu I think.
<scott-upstairs> oh, i know where the file is, i'm just wondering where it is set
<scott-upstairs> i think it's under xconf and elsewehere there, i just am not looking right now ;)
<scott-upstairs> i will though after i move a few things and rename the file
<len-nb> scott-upstairs, xfce looks there first because that is where our session stuff is.
<len-nb> Are you thinking of the panel stuff? The menu is just one file. or do you mean the old one?
<scott-upstairs> hmmm, you may be right then, but i really thought i remembered the menu being set somewhere
<scott-upstairs> len-nb, does your cursor look like a hand when it hovers over a link?
<len-nb> I don't remember, sorry. I rebooted already, there is only so much I can do  with a live iso
<len-nb> scott-upstairs, I'll look next time.
<scott-upstairs> len-nb, if so, it isn't like xubuntu's cursor and i'm not sure why at this point but i want to fix it
<astraljava> ScottL: Yeah, I got that much from a later comment in the bug, as well as on #xubuntu-devel. I'll be working on that during the weekend.
<astraljava> scott-upstairs: ^^
<scott-upstairs> astraljava, working on which one?
 * scott-upstairs really, really appreciates the help :-D
<astraljava> The maybe_ubiquity / live-settings thing.
<scott-upstairs> outstanding!
<scott-upstairs> thank you very much :D
<astraljava> scott-upstairs: Did you find any info from the bowels of your memory re: rtprio.py?
<scott-upstairs> astraljava, sorry, i completely forgot about it, TBH
<scott-upstairs> astraljava, i'll dig around later tonight after i make changes for the menu
<astraljava> scott-upstairs: No worries, I'll do a test install and see whether it's still used or not.
<len-nb> scott-upstairs, it would be possible (probably not a great idea) to have a different session for different work flows. with different menus...
<astraljava> scott-upstairs: Well, installing ubuntustudio-audio in a precise schroot tries to create an audio.conf file, so I'm assuming that means no more using rtprio.py, but it fails with calling postinst with an unknown argument `install', and like I mentioned earlier already, I can't even find the postinst script anywhere.
<astraljava> scott-upstairs: And I see why, now, cause in the -meta's debian/ directory, ubuntustudio-audio.install file, usage of rtprio.py is commented out, so at least one bug can be squished now.
<astraljava> micahg: Don't know if you missed it earlier, but I'd love some pointers to how the -meta source package is created, and subsequently on how the various binary packages are rolled from that.
<astraljava> TheMuso: You probably have lots of knowledge on that, too.
<scott-upstairs> astraljava, yes, yes, yes.  that reminds me!  i couldn't find it except searching through launchpad and found what you described, and micahg commented it out but didn't remove it
<scott-upstairs> astraljava, i'm glad to have that resolved (well, at least remembered)
<micahg> astraljava: ScottL: it might need a preinst or prerm to remove the file beforehand, I was wondering about that
<astraljava> micahg: Right, but I don't know where to create one. So far, I'm seriously puzzled on where such files should be created. Like I said, I'd like some pointers to where the -meta source packages and corresponding binary packages creation is being explained.
<micahg> well, that stuff never should've been in the meta in the first place, but the default settings package
<astraljava> Ok. But still, why is postinst called with unknown argument `install' when installing ubuntustudio-audio?
<micahg> astraljava: idk, that usually points to bad "punctuation" in the file
<astraljava> micahg: I can start moving the audio.conf creation into -default-settings package during this coming weekend.
<astraljava> micahg: But which file?
<micahg> there is no postinst anymore
<astraljava> micahg: Like I've repeatedly mentioned, I have no idea what file to correct, as I don't know where postinst lies at. There's none in -meta, and I don't even know how it gets created.
<micahg> which version is this?
<astraljava> 0.97
<micahg> buggers
<micahg> astraljava: where's the bug BTW?
<astraljava> micahg: There are several, hang on I'll list at least a few of them.
<astraljava> bug 954468, bug 946819, bug 946312
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 954468 in ubuntustudio-meta (Ubuntu) "package ubuntustudio-audio (not installed) failed to install/upgrade: subprocess new pre-installation script returned error exit status 1" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/954468
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 946819 in ubuntustudio-meta (Ubuntu) "package ubuntustudio-audio (not installed) failed to install/upgrade: subprocess new pre-installation script returned error exit status 1" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/946819
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 946312 in ubuntustudio-meta (Ubuntu) "package ubuntustudio-audio (not installed) failed to install/upgrade: le sous-processus nouveau script pre-installation a retournÃ© une erreur de sortie d'Ã©tat 1" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/946312
<astraljava> The last one is a little misleading, but was revealed by looking into the dpkg log file attached.
<astraljava> Also bug 933722, which is filed against 0.96, but fails with the same problem.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 933722 in ubuntustudio-meta (Ubuntu) "ubuntustudio-audio fails to install" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/933722
 * micahg might have broke something accidentally
 * micahg isn't sure, maybe TheMuso has some idea
<astraljava> Alright, well I could help too, if you could just briefly introduce me to the underlying fundamentals on -meta creation. I know that the seeds play a big part in it, but as to [pre|post][rm|inst]'s, I have no clue.
<micahg> astraljava: well, those are the same as any other package, they're not meta specific
<astraljava> micahg: I understand, they would be binary package specific. But how is the source package created?
<micahg> astraljava: same as any other source, but it's maintained as a source in the archive as opposed to bzr
<astraljava> micahg: Yes, and how do I tweak that, when I don't have access to the files in the archive?
<micahg> the only thing that's special is the germinate part, otherwise, it's a normal package
<micahg> astraljava: if you have internet access, you can apt-get source :)
<astraljava> micahg: Yes, but how/where do I upload a changed file?
<micahg> astraljava: just add a debdiff to a bug and subscribe sponsors like anything else
<astraljava> micahg: Ok, thanks! NOW did I get the procedure on fixing those bugs. :)
<astraljava> micahg: It's just sometimes confusing, what with the UDD and all that.
<micahg> I need to update the meta as well for ScottL's changes, but I'd prefer not to upload until the live image is switched to the lowlatency kernel
 * micahg doesn't UDD if there's another option :)
<astraljava> micahg: Haha. :) Ok. Well, I'll look into -meta if I see no fixes on it before the weekend.
 * CFHowlett Jack Bauer mode: DAMMIT
<CFHowlett> I was all set to stay with 10.04 until EOL.  Now I see openshot/vlc/audacity and GIMP are coming up with serious upgrades...
<micahg> CFHowlett: meh, it's only 1 year difference :)
<micahg> gimp only went from 2.6.8 to 2.6.12
<CFHowlett> micahg   I might stay put until 12.04.1 
<micahg> CFHowlett: always a wise idea
<micahg> CFHowlett: BTW, audacity might be a good candidate for backports
<micahg> if you wait 4 weeks, you can go strailght from precise -> lucid
<CFHowlett> micahg   great minds ... Yeah, I just ran update and it's not there.  I would definitely support backporting it.  
<micahg> CFHowlett: we'd just need install and run tests
<CFHowlett> micahg   related question: y u no have openshot!?
<CFHowlett> Seriously, I know openshot in its present form was released AFTER 10.04.  However, I find it much more intuitive and useful than pitivi or kino.
<CFHowlett> course, maybe that's just me...
<micahg> CFHowlett: it's seeded, just need to be uploaded
<CFHowlett> :)
<CFHowlett> good to know.
<micahg> umm, audacity 2.0 can't be backported as it need ffmpeg 0.6
<micahg> * backporteed to lucid
<CFHowlett> scheize!
<ScottL> micahg, astraljava :  we do not need the audio.conf file!
<ScottL> that was an older methodology for setting rtprio and memlock and nice settings
<ScottL> wait, wait....i just woke up, let me find the web page with this on there
<ScottL> i think the audio.conf file is necessary and is the new way, but jack creates it via debconf when jack is installed
<ScottL> (that is the part cjwatson was trying to fix in the preseeding)
<ScottL> (and BTW, jack copies the audio.conf.disabled file to the computer and debconf renames the file if answers correctly)
<ScottL> what we don't want is...
<ScottL> rtpito, memlock, and nice used to be set in /etc/security/limits.conf 
<ScottL> which is what i believe rtprio.py is still trying to do
<ScottL> and if jack creates the /etc/security/limits.d/audio.conf then the system could be confused or unstable
<ScottL> especially if contradicting settings are used (i.e. 'rtprio 99' is set in limits.conf and 'rtprio 95' is set in audio.conf)
<ScottL> in my opinion (for what it is worth) i would completely remove rtprio.py and any associated install files, not just comment them out, to avoid any potential for creating an unstable system in the future
<ScottL> 'of course, feel free to comment the reasoning for removing rtpio.py :)
<ScottL>  
<ScottL> a general observation....
<ScottL> i believe that people who are serious (not necessarily even professionals) about recording music stay with an LTS release due to it's stability
<ScottL> it appears that CHWowlett would affirm this believe :)
<ScottL> ciao quadrispro , good morning :)
<quadrispro> ehy ScottL, will you go to the next UDS?
* ScottL changed the topic of #ubuntustudio-devel to: Ubuntu Studio Development Channel | Ubuntu Studio code: https://code.launchpad.net/ubuntust?gs first Sunday of each month
<ScottL> quadrispro, i believe i will be going, and you?
<ScottL> wow, not sure how i changed the topic and not really sure how to change it back to the full text :/
<quadrispro> yes, me too
<quadrispro> I'm very active as upstream of laditools
<quadrispro> great changes will come soon :)
<scott-work> janne, you might also look at this bug for the -rt privileges issue with audio.conf:  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntustudio/+bug/571688
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 571688 in Ubuntu Studio "ubuntustudio-audio, ubuntustudio-controls and jackd installation scripts redundancies in 10.04" [Medium,In progress]
<scott-work> micahg: too ^^^
<scott-work> doh, that should have been janne -> astraljava ^^^
<scott-work> micahg: TheMuso :  cjwatson states in the bug report that "ubiquity shouldn't hang", would it be a good idea to revert to the -generic kernel for now (which also allows us to keep testing other fixes) until ...
<scott-work> a) get ubiquity or livecd-rootfs package patched for lowlatency, or
<micahg> scott-work: you haven't switched kernels yet, just the headers
<scott-work> b) can determine that the lowlatency kernel issue isn't causing ubiquity is hanging
<micahg> idk if ubiquity even uses the headers or not
<scott-work> micahg: i suppose i should have said, "revert the headers to -generic"
 * scott-work does realize that updating the meta's is not trivial
<micahg> scott-work: I never uploaded the new meta, so it's just the seeds ;)
<scott-work> micahg: oh, good!  hehe, i don't usually say that about updating meta
<scott-work> i'm just worried about getting a proper and functioning release
<scott-work> if we don't get the lowlatency kernel as default for 12.04 i'm okay with that, as long as we fix other issues and have a strong, stable, functional release :)
<scott-work> i would *like* to have the lowlatency kernel as well, but i don't feel comfortable about risking a (potential) LTS release for it however
 * scott-work still needs to email the TB about LTS applications....so many things to do and follow up 
<micahg> scott-work: oh, I'm sorry, I was supposed to help you with a risk analysis of your packages
<micahg> scott-work: basically, you want to get this branch lp:~ubuntu-security/ubuntu-cve-tracker/master/ and look and see if your packages historically have had lots of CVEs, the ones in universe, your team would be expected to provide diffs to the security team for
<micahg> scott-work: graphical interface is here, idk if it has historical info though: http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/
<scott-work_> if we have a chance to either use linux-latency or linux-lowlatency-pae, which should we use?
<scott-work_> i know that the pae kernel shoudl allow 32 bit users to recognize more memory, but will there be undesirable consequences of this?
<scott-work> going with linux-lowlatency
<scott-work> most new computer are 64 bit and i don't think we can adequate support everyone using an older computer
<micahg> scott-work: I think you might want the pae kernel for i386 as studio is targetted to beefier machines
<scott-work> micahg: is there a downside to choosing pae?
<micahg> the non-pae kernel on i386 means machines with >4GB RAM won't be able to address it
<scott-work> right, but is there a sacrifice to using the pae?
<micahg> the downside to pae is older machines and older laptops netbooks won't be able to boot off the image
<scott-work> i wonder if we would start seeing bug reports of these machines not booting then :P
<scott-work> i'm still leaning towards just keeping linux-lowlatency , to be honest
<micahg> scott-work: upgrades would work, it's just the live DVD won't
<micahg> it depends on who your audience is
<scott-work> i believe our current kernel is not pae enabled, so in this regard we wouldn't be "changing"
<micahg> people with more RAM just have an extra step to install the PAE kernel
<scott-work> BUT, we will be giving them more performance
<scott-work> hmmm
<micahg> well, the default in 12.04 for i386 is the PAE kernel
<scott-work> oh, hmmm
<micahg> but you have the choice here
<scott-work> okay, i'll tell cjwatson then
<micahg> Xubuntu decided at the last meeting to take the non-pae kernel if it's easy enough and won't break the images
<micahg> but xubuntu is targetting lower end systems
<micahg> or rather it's one of their targets
<micahg> I'm guessing Lubuntu will also try for non-PAE, but again, their target audience is lower end systems
<scott-work> okay, going with pae then
<micahg> and worse case is you get a Xubuntu or Lubuntu ISO, install, then install the ubuntustudio-desktop package and switch kernels for the 0.01% of users who mimght care
<astraljava> scott-work: Ok, I'll look at that bug as well.
<scott-work> astraljava: which bug is that?  (sorry, to many conversations going on)
<astraljava> scott-work: The one you linked to.
<knome> anybody familiar with iptables?
<scott-work> astraljava: oh yes, i remember now
<astraljava> knome: Just a little bit, why? What do you want to achieve?
<knome> block a subdomain
<knome> dd-wrt failed with that
<astraljava> Hmm... not sure, next!
<knome> the solution can be network-wide or computer-specific, i don't care.
<astraljava> I can look into it, if you want.
<knome> nah
<scott-work> astraljava:  don't forget about the ubiquity background/text bug too, if you can.  i would really like to get that one resolved before B2 if possible
<knome> it's not critical
<micahg> scott-work: do you do a lot of bug triage?
<knome> why, oh why people think that subfolder == subdomain
<knome> >__<
<astraljava> scott-work: Yeah, I have that on the TODO for the upcoming weekend, or possibly tomorrow, if I don't have to work.
<astraljava> knome: Because most of them can't tell their right thumb from their left index finger?
<knome> yeah. it just makes googling for help soooo much harder.
<scott-work> micahg: not too much, usually only when it is pretty critical
<scott-work> bug reports is not something we are currently active within, unfortunately
<micahg> scott-work: that's also a requirement for LTS status :)
<micahg> watching bug reports
<micahg> otherwise you won't know what to fix ;)
<scott-work> micahg: i have wanted to do that (watching bug reports more actively) and i think once two things happen we will be in a better position...
<scott-work> 1. get through 12.04 development
<scott-work> 2. fix the ubuntustudio-audio bug with rtprio.py causing installs not to update
<micahg> scott-work: I don't mean you personally, but as a project they need to be watched
<scott-work> :-D
<astraljava> scott-work: rtprio.py doesn't seem to stop installs anymore, it's the "postinst called with unknown argument `install'".
<astraljava> micahg: See? Someone watches for the bugs. :)
<scott-work> micahg: right, i knew what you meant :)
<scott-work> astraljava: agreed
<scott-work> bloody hell, cjwatson is pretty awesome
<astraljava> scott-work: This comes as news to you? *blink* *blink*
<knome> there are many people in the community who are awesome.
<scott-work> when i met colin at last UDS i was struck by how gentle he is, but he has this incredible ability to get stuff done, "arcane stuff" as he has called it, that greatly affects ubuntu studio on a fundamental level
<scott-work> i kept notes on people as i met them, just little two or three work lines, just to help me remember the numerous people i met, i think i wrote "gentle red force majure" for him :P
<knome> i think it really helps a derivative if its people know the correct people in the community
<knome> lol
<scott-work> oh, absolutely!  knowing the right people has been probably the major stumbling block of getting the lowlatency kernel 
<knome> i had good luck when i was at uds, i got to know a few really cool guys
<knome> like mvo
<knome> and in london, like stgraber
<knome> it really helps if you know personally, or at least have met
<knome> "hey, do you know how to..." get MUCH more friendly
<len_> scott-work, re the background bug with ubiquity when not live. I think the fix is to use the same themes in the xfce session as in the ubuntustudio session.
<len_> This may be as simple as copying /etc/xdg/xdg-ubuntustudio/xfce4/ to /etc/xdg/xfce4
<len_> Or even making it a link.
<scott-work> len_:  i've been told that we need to create a package like the xubuntu-default-settings package, add it to the dvd-live seeds, and also add the /casper/48_maybe_ubiquity file
<scott-work> astraljava: is going to work on that today or tomorrow (i think that's what he said)
<len_> scott-work re pae kernel. my machine is petty old and has shown no issues with pae
<scott-work> len_: that's good to hear and reassures me with the decision :)
<len_> The only older machine I have (98 laptop) doesn't support enough memory for much audio work anyway. (p366)
<knome> scott-work, it's probably around 5 year old machines which can suffer if there is no non-pae kernel
<len_> I think there is a minimum machine that will support audio work with the software we ship. 
<len_> mine is at least 8 yrs old.
<knome> some older machines do support pae, but not all
<knome> the problem is not (only) age-specific 
<len_> I would guess that is true. However, by the time the DE is loaded and then jack and ardour and maybe hydrogen, other things than CPU like memory might be an issue anyway.
<len_> I am already seeing issues with my tiny 1G ram...
<ailo> jack is not working great for me
<ailo> Unable to stop it from qjackctl
<ailo> Also, getting xruns easily with -lowlatency
<ailo> I suspect it has something to do with dbus, but who knows
<ailo> jackd1 is easier, but still getting xruns :/
<len_> ailo, i had that with my ensoniq card, but ok with the envy24...but that was with PA-jack thrown in the mix.
<len_> my machines are 32bit
<ailo> This is definately not a problem with the card, since I've never had problems before
<ailo> -lowlatency for earlier releases were awesome
<ailo> Might be a problem elsewhere
<len_> Its still pretty much black box like to me... I have a rough understanding of what happens in there, but not much more.
<ailo> It's difficult to know without being able to analyze the problem
<ailo> In this case experience will at least tell something
<len_> yup, been there.
<ailo> I know that there has been some work under the hood for PA and alsa stuff, but who knows if it is related
<ailo> Beyond the jack bridge thing
<ailo> All I know is that currently, low latency audio is not working
<ailo> 6 months ago, jackd + -lowlatency were awesome
<len_> So far mostly I have been doing install testing, the last audio test was 2 or 3 weeks ago now
<ailo> In retrospect, it would have been good if I had put some time into testing. Been occupied with other things
<len_> We don't heat the space where my audio computer is and I have kids to watch too, so I have mostly been testing on my netbook.
<len_> The focus has been on the switch to xfce
<len_> So mostly look and feel.
<ailo> I'm reporting a bug about qjackctl not being able to stop jackd2 (it happens often, but not everytime)
<ailo> jackd1 is no problem
<ailo> Here's the bug report, if anyone would like to test and confirm https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/qjackctl/+bug/956438
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 956438 in qjackctl (Ubuntu) "qjackctl unable to stop jackd2" [Undecided,New]
<ailo> Now I would love to find out why xruns are rampant
<ailo> Somehow qjackctl starts jackdbus and not jackd, but if you start jackd from the terminal, it's just jackd
<astraljava> scott-work: Please, pay attention (now why do I have to keep telling that to everyone?!), tomorrow or over the weekend! :)
<ailo> That's all for today for me. Another day tomorrow
<scott-work> for what it is worth (and especially since micah hasn't update the meta files), i think i will remove digikam from the seeds after looking at the dependencies, including the surprising number of unrelated KDE applications http://paste.ubuntu.com/885578/
<astraljava> That's install recommends by default for ya.
<knome> ScottL, you will need an UIFe for the slideshow changes.
<ScottL> knome, okay, thank you
#ubuntustudio-devel 2012-03-16
<TheMuso> ScottL: If you feel switching back to generic is safer for now, re ubiquity etc, fine by me.
<len-nb> ScottL, don't know if you will see this tonight... just looking at: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/Roadmap
<len-nb> mudita24 desktop file is now there can be called done, lightdm configured... is there more to do? It is no longer broken the bug #922424
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 922424 in ubuntustudio-meta (Ubuntu) "lightdm won't start I have console(s) only" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/922424
<len-nb> is taken care of so this could be called done as well.
<len-nb> ScottL, I have also thought about your comment about loading a number of files to configure my workflow application. It would allow easy adding of workflow when a new workflow is added, that would be what you meant... I'll do that but keep the same format so that one file could have more than one workflow if needed.
<ScottL> hi len-nb , i'm about to go to bed, i just about have the menu where i like it, should have pictures tomorrow, just fighting a few tweaks
<ScottL> len-nb, yes, i need to clean up the roadmap wiki, maybe this weekend
<ScottL> i'm actually taking tomorrow (or is it today now :0 ) off from work
<ScottL> i'll be spending part of the time with the family for spring break, but i should get some time tomorrow to work on stuff along with the weekend
<ScottL> so, i think my next steps are complete the menu and push to bzr, work through your panel stuff (which shouldn't take near as long), and get the slideshow updated
<micahg> ScottL: BTW, you'll want to update the headers for lowlatency to the pae ones if they're not already
<ScottL> i really, really, really, really, really, really, really want to get all that and a few more things done this weekend
<ScottL> micahg, oy vey, i had forgotten about that!
<len-nb> ScottL, fun stuff. 
<ScottL> thank you very much, i'll do that now
<micahg> just for i386 though
<ScottL> aye, i386 only, good point, i'm tired and probably wouldn't have thought of that :P
<ScottL> i've already dropped kino, which brought in phonon, kde-runtime, konqueror, dolphin, and a bunch of other crap
<ScottL> errr, digikam
<ScottL> not kino
<ScottL> crasy stuff
<ScottL> micahg, so, i see 'linux-headers-lowlatency-pae:i386' as a package in precise, i need the full name including the ':i386' part, no?
<micahg> no
<ScottL> okay, just 'linux-headers-lowlatency-pae' then
<ScottL> maybe i should be more clear because i might be misleading you, uno momento, por favor
<ScottL> these two lines are currently there:
<ScottL> * (linux-headers-lowlatency) [i386]
<ScottL>  * (linux-headers-lowlatency) [amd64]
<ScottL> i plan to replace the first line with...
<ScottL> * (linux-headers-lowlatency-pae) [i386]
<ScottL> not...
<ScottL> * (linux-headers-lowlatency-pae:i386) [i386]
<micahg> right
<ScottL> righty-o
<ScottL> doing it now then and going to bed, i've been up for almost 19 hours today
<ScottL> micahg, when the meta files are finally updated, you can use bug #956250 for the lowlatency headers in the changelog
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 956250 in livecd-rootfs (Ubuntu) "default to lowlatency kernel for ubuntustudio builds" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/956250
<ScottL> okay, goings to bed now, for reals
<jussi> good morning all, anyone about?
<jussi> ScottL: sure you arent here anymore? 
<astraljava> jussi: I am now.
<ailo> I tried installing only ubuntu-minimal just to see if there would be any difference in performance. None really, even though the desktop did interfere with jack
<ailo> I'd like to pick the whole system apart somehow to find out what it is. Perhaps try an older kernel
<ailo> Trying out alessios realtime kernel too see how it performs as well
<ailo> Massive difference in performance :(. I say :(, because I really thought -lowlatency was enough. Still wondering how the changes can be so big. -generic was never fully up to par, but for me -lowlatency has been very reliable all up until now
<astraljava> ailo: The kernel would my primary suspect for sure, as it experiences most changes of the involved software atm.
<ailo> astraljava: It would seem that different kernels perform extremely well with -lowlatency configs, while others are crap
<ailo> I mean, some perform extremely well..
<ailo> I'm going to try building a 3.0 kernel to see if that makes any difference
<ailo> With -lowlatency configs
<astraljava> ailo: I don't know kernels that much, but I do understand how crucial their performance (and configuration overall) is to this sort of work flow.
<ailo> astraljava: My experience is that most of the time, everything everything else does not seem to influence performance at all
<astraljava> ailo: Well, jackd obviously has a huge influence to it.
<ailo> But, I haven't really brought things down to a really basic and minimal level
<ailo> astraljava: jackd1 and jackd2 are quite different too in some ways, and I don't expect either to have a negative influence on performance after an update. Would be very unlikely
<ailo> While I'm doing this, I'm waiting to hear from the library. Going to have to study through all of high school math these next couple of months and do tests in order to be able to get into the university, which has been long overdue for me
<astraljava> ailo: Sounds good, I wish I'd have time to carry my studies forward.
<ailo> When the timing is right.. :)
<jussi> astraljava: ScottL: I wanted to point this out: http://www.openoctave.org/oomidi_2011
<ScottL> jussi, they have done some great stuff, i've been keeping up with that loosely for over a year since i read an dave phillips article in linux journal about alex stone (a non linux guy) making his transition to linux on a mac
<ScottL> alex stone is a classical composer and had certain requirements for number of instruments and sizes of samples/instruments in his libraries
<astraljava> jussi: Noticed it on linkedin. Looks promising. Wish I'd have 10k, I could get the similar workstation than what'shername.
<ScottL> he was using reaper and there was a great (and long) article of alex's transition into linux and the struggles (and victories) with certain obstacles
<ScottL> i think about a year go he started with open octave with another bloke and they have done some amazing work
<jussi> we should get it out of the kxstudio ppa and into the repos though...
<ScottL> i've been curious how much coding alex does.  or if he's the "user" working with a "dev" to flesh it out
<ScottL> jussi, that would be a major coup, indeed
 * jussi assigns... eerrr, who are our packagers now?
<astraljava> jussi: You have to let go of such a mindset. Anyone can package for [ubuntu|debian].
<astraljava> jussi: Well okay, maybe not you... *smirk*
<jussi> astraljava: I still have ops here, I can SMITE you :P
<astraljava> jussi: But yeah, I could talk to quadrispro, he could mentor me if I'd take on that task.
<astraljava> jussi: But you wouldn't, would you?! *blink* *blink*
<jussi> hehe
<jussi> mind, I have had packages accepted into the archive before ;)
<astraljava> Fair enough.
<ScottL> jussi, can you help set the topic back proper?  somehow i did that while talking to someone the other day
<jussi> ScottL: paste what you want the topic to be
* ScottL changed the topic of #ubuntustudio-devel to: this is the wrong topic
* ScottL changed the topic of #ubuntustudio-devel to: Ubuntu Studio Development Channel | Ubuntu Studio code: https://code.launchpad.net/ubuntust?gs first Sunday of each month
<ScottL> oh, that's probably how i did it then
<ScottL> i'll fix the text later, i'd like to make a few changes to the menu settings that i realized how to fix this morning while i was half asleep laying in bed
<astraljava> knome: Yet another interview a week from now. Spare me a couch seat the night between 22nd and 23rd? What shift is your wife on then? Are you even in town? :)
 * astraljava wonders if knome already got a day job, he hasn't responded in 1h 26min, which is near-alarming considering he should be up by now. :D
<ailo> Just trying out a -generic 3.0 version. Works pretty well
<ailo> I'm having big doubts about the current kernels. 
<ailo> ScottL: Is it too late to change to an older kernel?
<ailo> I think it might be the best approach
<holstein> ailo: the *-lolatency one?
<ailo> I would assume -lowlatency performs better than -generic, but even an older -generic is better than what we have now
<ailo> The ones we have now are not really usable
<holstein> in what way?
<holstein> RT? or other?
<ailo> holstein: Have you tried the lates kernels?
<ailo> xruns
<holstein> i have used a few 3.x + ones
<holstein> not with audio
<holstein> and i have only fired up the live CD pre lowlatency kernel and tested with my FW device
<ailo> It's a clear difference. 3.2 is not very usable for low latency audio (unless it's a realtime kernel)
<ailo> At least for me
<holstein> ailo: you tried with FW and your internal devices?
<ailo> Only two so far, but just switching to an older kernel, on Precise, makes a huge difference
<holstein> interesting
<ailo> Presently running -generic, jackd -p 64, while compiling a kernel. No xruns
<holstein> TBH... ive been just fine with *-generic
<holstein> i think its more about transitioning folks for me
<holstein> and trying to get a nice "middle of the road" kernel
<holstein> folks dont try it.. they just see that we dont have an RT kernel and move on
<ailo> I've been testing the difference between -generic and -lowlatency, and the results have clearly shown that -generic was not able to run stable at low latencies
<holstein> i would have done hte same
<ailo> So, I wouldn't say -generic is fine
<ailo> At the moment I'm running a mainline kernel, not an Ubuntu one
<holstein> well... im not using it on my production rig, thats for sure
<holstein> but for "normal" use...
<holstein> whatever that is
<ailo> I switched to -p 32. Still no xruns
<ailo> Never had this good results from a -generic kernel before
<holstein> yeah... thats where i hope we are heading
<ailo> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel/MainlineBuilds?action=show&redirect=KernelMainlineBuilds
<holstein> by the time 16.04 releases, folks will *actually* believe it maybe ;)
<ailo> holstein: Well, it's not heading that way, since 3.2 is totally unusable
<holstein> i think thats temporary though
<ailo> There's no garantee that a kernel will become good for audio
<holstein> i mean... what the hell do i know... but i think its just a glitch
<ailo> That's not their major preference, when they make it
<holstein> i dont think the 2 are mutually exclusive though
<ailo> -p 16 now..
<holstein> sweet!
<ailo> It's like a freaking -realtime
<ailo> Actually better than the -realtime 3.2
<holstein> yup
<ailo> Well, not really. Doesn't hold water when I start audio apps, but usually I would get xruns even without opening any apps
<holstein> depends on the apps too, for me
<holstein> some of them are "friendlier"
<ailo> Ardour is the best performing in my experience
<holstein> ardour occasionally kicks one up when starting, but yeah
<holstein> usually the best for me too
<ailo> I had a lot of xruns at -p 64, so not usable
<ailo> I'm compiling a -lowlatency 3.0 now, so let's hope that one performs better. It did very much so in the past
<holstein> i havent ever compiled a kernel
<holstein> its one of those things i think i should do
<ailo> Not that hard really. If you just recompile a kernel, it's super easy
<holstein> im not even sure how to start
<holstein> ive read about it a lot
<holstein> i need a .deb ;)
<holstein> sudo dpki -i whatever.deb
<holstein> thats about where i am
<holstein> anyways... im always trying to learn things
<ailo> holstein: https://wiki.edubuntu.org/Kernel/BuildYourOwnKernel
<ailo> The interesting part is where you change the config
<holstein> yeah... that looks easy enough
<ailo> There are a lot of tutorials on the web, so if you want to do something specific, chances are there's a tutorial for that
<holstein> i have a nice book to that has an overview and some screenies
<holstein> "how linux works'
<holstein> im interested in "streamlining" a kernel
<holstein> for certain hardware
<holstein> maybe making tweaks for certain hardware or whatever if needed
<ailo> That would be cool, yes
<ailo> For one individual, you might need almost nothing of what the kernel offers
<holstein> i have found that with some older hardware, the ubuntu kernels dont support it well
<holstein> in some cases at least
<ailo> But I think most of it isn't reducing performance though, so it's more about understanding what does, I'm thinking
<holstein> and i know its something i can "fix"
<ailo> You mean drivers?
<holstein> since its all open and i can build whatever (in theory)
<holstein> ailo: i think...
<ailo> Like drivers for wifi and such?
<holstein> that too.. but even just things that have been taken out
<holstein> some old graphics hardware
<ailo> Sometimes I guess because of legal issues
<holstein> yup.. or just too old
<ailo> Right. 3.0 -lowlatency built. Now to test it..
<ailo> Nope. Not better. 
<ailo> The only hardware change for me is my graphic card. I should try changing that, and also retry with an older Ubuntu to see the differences
<ailo> holstein: If you get the chance, please do some quick testing to see how well jack plays on your hardware
<holstein> ailo: will do
<ailo> hmm, not sure if the -lowlatency is configured properly
<ailo> I just copied the config that came with the latest kernel
<knome> astraljava, hahah, we have guests
<knome> astraljava, let me check that dat
<knome> *day
<knome> or *date
<knome> astraljava, evening + morning, so not the best. but i'll ask her. :)
<ailo> ScottL: TheMuso holstein: I believe the config for -lowlatency is actually the config for -generic
<ailo> cat /boot/config-3.2.0-18-lowlatency | grep PREEMPT
<ailo> # CONFIG_PREEMPT_RCU is not set
<ailo> CONFIG_PREEMPT_NOTIFIERS=y
<ailo> # CONFIG_PREEMPT_NONE is not set
<ailo> CONFIG_PREEMPT_VOLUNTARY=y
<ailo> # CONFIG_PREEMPT is not set
<ailo> holstein: No reason to do any tests yet, then
<holstein> yeah... 
<ailo> I'm going to recompile it and add the -lowlatency stuff to it, and see what that does to it
<ailo> Later tonight. Will be back with results..
<ailo> Sometimes the obvious is a little too obvious
<astraljava> knome: No worries, I'll try some other friends. Thanks, though!
<ailo> TheMuso: Who are so far involved in maintaing the -lowlatency?
<ailo> Besides abogani and yourself
<astraljava> ailo: I think I volunteered at some point when Scott asked.
<ailo> astraljava: I'm just wondering who else might be changing the source so far
<astraljava> ailo: Let me check from the repository logs.
<ailo> I have volunteered to take over maintenance from abogani, but I will need to learn a few things first. It'll take me a few weeks
<ailo> astraljava: Which repo? The git repo?
<ailo> Ah, the package log?
<astraljava> ailo: The branch in LP where the package is rolled from.
<astraljava> So far only Alessio and Luke have committed to it.
<ailo> astraljava: LP?
<astraljava> Launchpad.
<astraljava> https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/precise/linux-lowlatency/precise
<astraljava> Erm... that's one of those Importer branches.
<ailo> It's the right package
<ailo> I have a lot to learn about the whole package procedure when it comes to Ubuntu
<ailo> Or, the right source :)
<astraljava> Yeah but it's not the one where maintainers push.
<ailo> I believe after Luke changed it, the lowlatency config was no longer used in the build
<astraljava> I'm a little bit behind when it comes to UDD, too.
<ailo> astraljava: I believe the maintainers push to the git repo for the specific kernel
<ailo> Still need to understand how they turn the source into a package
<astraljava> ailo: No I meant the lowlatency maintainers for Studio, not just the kernel maintainers.
<ailo> astraljava: Same thing
<ailo> There's a repo for lowlatency too
<astraljava> ailo: Outside of LP? Oh, nice.
<astraljava> I don't understand why, though. Isn't it supposed to be just a configuration issue mainly?
<ailo> astraljava: http://kernel.ubuntu.com/git
<astraljava> ailo: Yea, but that's for UKT only, isn't it?
<ailo> astraljava: Only the /ubuntu kernels
<ailo> abogani has been keeping his -lowlatency there the whole time
<ailo> Don't know what the policy is, but there are a few custom kernels there
<ailo> Ah, Luke has made his own -lowlatency repo there
<astraljava> Right, good to know. (I'm afraid I was supposed to know that, due to said volunteering, but I suppose I was for back-up purposes anyway)
<ailo> Crossing my fingers that the actual -lowlatency will perform as expected :P. Still building..
<ailo> astraljava: Yeah, I don't really see why -lowlatency needs to be in its own repo either tbh
<ailo> I guess cause UTK is not going to maintain it
<astraljava> That's the reason, yeah.
<knome> astraljava, okay. if anything else fails though... :)
<astraljava> knome: In the case of emergency, I'll crash in at my brother's. :)
<ailo> ScottL: astraljava TheMuso holstein: -lowlatency rocks. Let's fix the config for it, and we have a killer kernel for audio
<ailo> I'm just doing some testing, and I can instantly see that it's about as good as -realtime
<astraljava> Sweet!
<ailo> Seems like qjackctl is totally tied into jackdbus? I don't understand. I thought I started jackd1 with it yesterday
<ailo> I'm not able to start jackd1 with qjackctl. It tries to start jackdbus
<ailo> I'm on regular Ubuntu btw
<astraljava> I can't really comment on that so far, my knowledge as a user of these apps is too limited.
<astraljava> I can look into it tomorrow, though.
<falktx__> ailo: disable dbus integration in it's settings
<ailo> falktx__: .config/rncbc.org/QjackCtl.conf?
<falktx__> no, the GUI
<falktx__> it's an option in the last tab
<ailo> Ah, I see it now
<ailo> New to me
<astraljava> ailo: On that k.u.c/git page I see no other lowlatency repos except Alessio's and Luke's, so I'm still not sure where it's actually maintained, or how.
<astraljava> Perhaps commits are cherry-picked from those by the importer.
<ailo> astraljava: abogani had his own repo for the launchpad kernels, and then I assume Luke started his own in order to make the source buildable for the main repo (something about symbolic links)
<ailo> The abogani tree is probably not updated anymore
<astraljava> Ok. So probably Luke cherry-picks from others' repos if need be, then uploads. That would work.
<ailo> astraljava: I think Luke based his on aboganis (not sure), while it might be better to either have a very light type of repo (like a patch for the standard ubuntu kernel), or an exact copy. At least that's what I'm thinking
<astraljava> ailo: Yes, well I'm not sure how it works, but probably it would include most of Ubuntu's patches, except where it'd interfere with lowlatency configuration, and then just the different configuration. That's _my_ thinking, I'm waiting to be proven wrong.
<knome> astraljava, whatever goes. planning to have any free time?
<astraljava> knome: I can, if there's something interesting. There would be a cool gig to go to, but I most likely don't have the cash.
<knome> astraljava, what gig?
<astraljava> Pain of Salvation on Saturday evening.
<knome> ouch.
<knome> that's not going to be cheap, not at all
<astraljava> It's not that much, 22 â¬, but in my situation, I don't think I can shelve that much.
<knome> hmm, that's less than i thought. i was thinking 30â¬+ ...
<astraljava> They're not that popular.
<knome> mmh. but they're not finnish :)
<astraljava> Sure ain't.
<knome> yeah, that brings some extra to the ticket prices
<astraljava> Depends. I'm pretty sure Stam1na costs a lot more than most of the swedes I'm listening to.
<knome> probably, i don't know much about the metal scene
<astraljava> It's not the most expensive genre, how could it be. :)
<knome> yeah. probably not. no grand pianos to fly around.
<knome> btw, lol, do you agree with wife's brother on this metal aphorism: if it has synth, it's melodic
<astraljava> Sort of. Usually it means that. It does not rule out melodic metal without synths, though.
<astraljava> And please do note that melodic metal does not equate not-grunting-vocals. :)
<knome> yeah, i know, but i don't completely agree with the aphorism either...
<astraljava> Why, do you have contradicting examples?
<knome> i can't name any, but i know there is
<astraljava> Like I said, it usually means that, but it's not fool-proof either.
<astraljava> But then I haven't heard most of the metal bands in the world, and certainly don't even listen to that many of what's left on a regular basis either.
<knome> :)
<ailo> astraljava: I guess the trick is to know if and which patches would interfer. So far it seems to me it's mostly about the kernel version itself + the lowlatency config
<len_> Hmm, no 32 bit build today.
<ailo> holstein: -p32 -r48000 for an hour or so. Playing rakarrack. No xruns. 
#ubuntustudio-devel 2012-03-17
<shnatsel> creepy, creepy old apps that minimize to nonexistant tray
<astraljava> gah
<len-nb> Hey! how come we don't have a 32 bit iso any more?
<len-nb> Two days in a row.
<ScottL> len-nb, good question, i checked listadmin and approved the message stuck in their from the build daemon (huh, i thought i fixed that too) but didn't see anything for 32 bit
<ScottL> if we don't see anything tomorrow i'll poke cjwatson again about this
<ScottL> it might be because of the linux-lowlatency-pae transition (either taking time for things to settle down or for things to actually get done and pushed)
<ScottL> len-nb, i'm done with the menu, i'll post pictures in a bit
<ScottL> well, in an hour or so
<ScottL> i'm starting the tweak the ubiquity slide library in a few hours
<ScottL> and i think i just fixed the cursor theme as well
<ScottL> i still need to read the backscroll about alio's testing and the conversations about the kernel
<astraljava> brb, trying to switch from irssi to weechat.
<ScottL> astraljava, are you going to be able get the live-settings package this weekend?
<ScottL> i'm guessing to push to -default-settings in fifteen minutes
<ScottL> (yay!  i believe i have the menu adjusted)
<len-nb> ScottL, sounds great. I actually got my workflow application to do something... It can actually find the icons that go with the desktop files now.
<len-nb> With regard to the 32 bit iso, I am somewhat surprised it vanished. In the past if one iso didn't work the old version still stuck around.
<len-nb> So there might be a new 32bit iso and an older 64 bit iso. It is almost like the package thinks the 32bit package is no longer defined.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2012-03-18
<ScottL> len-nb, there are some striking differences now, the 32bit is using the linux-lowlatency-pae package where the 64bit is only using linux-lowlatency
<ScottL> however, it seems that both images might still be having trouble getting the lowlatency into the build :/
<scott-upstairs> len-nb, and anyone else who is interested, here is the menu that i have :)
<scott-upstairs> keep in mind, this is structured more to support work flows and *creating* things
<scott-upstairs> http://imagebin.org/203992
<scott-upstairs> http://imagebin.org/203993
<scott-upstairs> http://imagebin.org/203994
<scott-upstairs> http://imagebin.org/203995
<scott-upstairs> http://imagebin.org/203996
<scott-upstairs> http://imagebin.org/203997
<scott-upstairs> mainly i adjusted the top level structure a bit from what len-nb did
<scott-upstairs> the other biggest thing (as far as user interfacing) is rename the 'multimedia' menu to 'media playback'
<scott-upstairs> since the other '* production' menus are used for creating, i though it would be confusing wiht 'multimedia' as another menu
<scott-upstairs> i also riffed off what xubuntu did for the first four entries, just choose the most common things non-music/art/video/photo related
<scott-upstairs> open for comments and suggestions, of course
<scott-upstairs> knome, next thing tonight is to (almost) finish the slideshow
<scott-upstairs> i say "almost" because i doubt i will actually complete it tonight, just have a feeling i'll finish it on the morrow
<scott-upstairs> but i might surprise myself and whack it out tonight.  i certainly would like to, anyways
<len-nb> scott-upstairs, mudita24 in multimedia playback? is it in mixers too?
<len-nb> ScottL  ^^^^
<len-nb> ScottL, also hugin seems to think it is for stiching "photos" together... I would have moved them to photographic.
<len-nb> Other than that it looks good to me.
<len-nb> Oh, and (at least here it still) happy St.  Patrick's Day. 
<astraljava> len-nb: Back atcha. Wish I was in Boston to celebrate it. :)
<ScottL> eh, thanks len-nb 
<ScottL> i was fighting certain things and felt i had missed a few items for sure :P
<len-nb> And no stout in the house :-(
<ScottL> astraljava, you haven't started the live-settings yet have you?
 * ScottL is worried about crossing branches while working on it (even though he knows bzr can handle conflicts)
<astraljava> ScottL: Not yet. Tomorrow. I've had a lot of other things to get done, and then I jumped ships and started to use weechat instead of irssi. Problem was, I wanted it for 256 colors in terminal, and the version on the server was outdated, so first I tried to compile it there (without sudo privileges).
<astraljava> After a while I realized I could just compile it on my laptop, and just scp the binaries. :)
<astraljava> Lost a couple of hours in that. :D
<astraljava> ScottL: Don't worry about it. Merging is easy. :)
<ScottL> alright knome , i got three pages done tonight, including adding some css and a new background
<ScottL> three more to go, i will definitely have this tomorrow
<CFHowlett> silly question, but it's been driving me mad.  I've got to ask...Will it be possible to install ubuntustudio by adding the packages to a plain vanilla installation of xubuntu?
<micahg> CFHowlett: you should be able to install ubuntustudio-desktop on top of any of the flavors
<CFHowlett> micahg   thanks.
<knome> ScottL, :)
<ailo> ScottL: Just a reminder. -lowlatency rocks so make sure to make it default
<ailo> Currently it has the wrong config file, so -lowlatency is actually -generic, but that will soon change
<ailo> Fan, t.o.m. tÃ¤cket Ã¤r Ã¥t skogen idag
<ailo> Oops. Wrong channel
<ScottL> ailo, we are currently working towards using lowlatency as default
<ScottL> micahg, did you happen to see my pm?
<ScottL> eh, you are probably asleep still
<astraljava> ScottL: When you're up, please link to the live-settings you have going on, I'm about to start hacking soon, and I thought I would see what you got there already.
<ScottL> astraljava, i haven't worked on the live-settings, just the default-settings package
<ScottL> but i've pushed my changes already to -default-settings
<ScottL> what i believe we need to do is three things:
<ScottL> 1. add /casper/whatever_ubiquity_filename
<ScottL> 2. add entry in control file for -live-settings binary
<ScottL> 3. add -live-settings to the seeds
<ScottL> i don't remember where #3 should be, but i can find it if necessary (i might even have something printed out)
<astraljava> ScottL: Oh! I thought you were about to work on it, when you voiced your worries about merging, yesterday. Nevermind, then. 
<ScottL> hehe, no i was worried about -default-settings package in general because i was doing work on it as well, but just for the menu
<ScottL> i'm almost done with the slideshow though :)
<ScottL> i feel really good about that, it's looking pretty good
<ScottL> (although i am biased since i did the update ;) )
<astraljava> Always good to be proud of one's own work. :)
<ScottL> i'm down to 2.8319 slides to go
<ScottL> i had to stop this morning to clean house for company (who is about to leave now)
<micahg> ScottL: yeah, sorry, will respond in a bit
<ScottL> micahg, no rush, i'm feeling better about stuff, i got the -default-settings for the menu, the cursor theme fixed, and are almost through the slideshow update
<ScottL> just waiting for company to leave to continue on it
#ubuntustudio-devel 2013-03-11
<micahg> zequence: if there isn't a studio bzr branch, a debdiff in a bug is fine, if you prefer the bzr workflow, you can propose a merge against the lp:ubuntu/foo branch if there isn't a *-Vcs field in debian/control for Ubuntu
<Len-nb> micahg, so after a merge propose, it is automatic? (i mean the correct people are notified) or do I need to do something else?
<micahg> once a merge is proposed to lp:ubuntu/foo, it gets into the sponsorship queue
<Len-nb> good.
<Len-nb> micahg, the fact that you are chatting here, does that mean you are aware we have three packages that need release? (ubuntustudio-default-settings, ubuntustudio-look and ubuntustudio-lightdm-theme)
<micahg> Len-nb: so, those I didn't know about, I'd be happy to sponsor them
<micahg> Len-nb: any particular order?
 * micahg guesses it won't matter
<Len-nb> look first
<Len-nb> if they are all before the next iso roll no matter
<Len-nb> (or inbetween rolls)
 * micahg pulls the branches
<micahg> zequence: so, if you're changing the default background, you probably want to bump the depends on -look
<zequence> micahg: Ok, what does that involve?
<micahg> zequence: editing debian/control in the appropriate packages
<zequence> micahg: The wallpaper was added to -look
<micahg> right, you anything using it needs to depend on the appropriate version of -look
<zequence> Oh, you mean -settings, etc?
<micahg> and -lightdm-theme
<micahg> yeah
<zequence> Ok, didn't realize those were so version specific
<micahg> you want to make sure that you have the wallpaper available if you're using it
<Len-nb> They aren't now but could be.
<Len-nb> I have lightdm open.
<micahg> Len-nb: zequence changed the defaults, so the dependency needs to be updates appropriately
<Len-nb> how do I write the version?
<Len-nb> It would depend on the new -look version
<Len-nb> is that just .45 or 0.45?
<micahg> zequence: the new wallpaper is in -look or -wallpapers?
<micahg> 0.45~ to watch for backports
<zequence> micahg: -look
<zequence> I pushed new commit to -default-settings
<micahg> zequence: is that to make sure that it's available even without -wallpapers
<Len-nb>  so ubuntustudio-look (>= 0.45) ?
<zequence> Len-nb: Yeo
<zequence> yep*
<micahg>  ubuntustudio-look (>= 0.45~)
<Len-nb> I have removed the dep for wallpapers as this only uses the one
<zequence> micahg: -wallpapers is from gnome period. -look puts the wallpapers into the XFCE dir
<zequence> i.e. /usr/share/xfce4/backdrops/
<zequence> I'll have a look at reorganizing our packages once this release is out
<zequence> It's a bit messy
<micahg> ok, lightdm-theme had a dep on -wallpapers, I guess that's maybe what len-1304 was talking about
<Len-nb> lightdm is pushed/commited
<Len-nb> micahg, I think we have just gotten away with the old deps because we seeded both
<micahg> Len-nb: I think you got the wrong version of -look as the dependency :)
<micahg> the new wallpaper is in 0.45, so we want 0.45~ :)
<Len-nb> Ya, I had left it at the wallpapers version. Fixed now.
<Len-nb> micahg, ^^
 * Len-nb was up too late fiddling with the studio slideshow
<micahg> zequence: also, your changelog says add, but your commit for -look says replaced (which seems more appropriate)
<micahg> or rather replaced with
<micahg> zequence: ah, I see what happened, you added them as jpg, and then switch them to .png, the changelog is fine
<zequence> I added two wallpapers as jpg first, then replaced them with .png
<zequence> Yep
<micahg> sorry, didn't scroll down the buffer far enough :)
<micahg> did you intend for the spaces in the name for the wallpaper? "<_name>Ubuntu Studio Default </_name>"
<zequence> I saw a bunch of jpg's and thought maybe it was important for the wallpaper to be jpg, but then noticed not all of them were. Exporting to jpg is a minor trade off
<micahg> nah, png is better
<micahg> svg would rock actually, no pun intended (well, maybe just a pebble)
<Len-nb> makes sense.... gotta get some more artists involved...
<micahg> zequence: BTW, in the future, it's good to keep the changelog commit with the change if possible (not a problem either way though as long as it gets in)
<micahg> zequence: we also need to update debian/copyright with the new files and their copyrights
<zequence> micahg: You mean, sync bzr commits with debian changelog?
<zequence> micahg: Isn't there a command to auto-fill debian/changelog with bzr commits?
<Len-nb> zequence,  copyrights file in look
<micahg> zequence: you added the wallpaper in r152 and then the changelog in r153, those could go together (and you can use debcommit or bzr commit to use the changelog as the commit message)
<Len-nb> you need to put your copyright in there
<micahg> zequence: it's the other way around
<micahg> zequence: the git workflow is sometimes the other way around where they populate from the Vcs
<zequence> micahg: Ah, ok. That's what I was after. i think it would be best to use debcommit as much as possible
<micahg> that's what I try to do, it uses whatever's changed in debian/changelog as the commit message
<micahg> if you need to modify, debcommit -e
<zequence> micahg: Ok. I pushed the changed copyright to -looks
<micahg> zequence: and you understand your graphics are under the CC-SA 2.5?
<zequence> micahg: Yes, and that works for me
<zequence> Don't know what it means in detail, but don't really care at this point
<micahg> ok
<zequence> Had to change the license details on the wiki page too
<micahg> I don't know the specifics of the license
<zequence> Seems to work for this usage, so that's fine with me
<micahg> ok
<zequence> ..and suddenly, Ardour3 is out
<Len-nb> Yup
<Len-nb> Pay for use, or free minus usability.
<Len-nb> Does mixbus support ardour?
<Len-nb> (money wise?)
<Len-nb> zequence, the desktop file for hexter shows up first in the debian package.
<Len-nb> Do they have something like bzr? Or can I use bzr on the source to create one?
<Len-nb> zequence, debian has me confused... they have a document about menus... XDG is not mentioned... desktop files are not mentioned.... icons are expected to be in pixmaps, as xpms... all fvwm oriented.
<Len-nb> This is debian policy? http://www.debian.org/devel/ shows only the one menu item.
<micahg> Len-nb: http://wiki.debian.org/MimeTypesSupport ?
<len-1304> micahg, I was just wondering if there was a way it was supposed to be included in the package. I guess with most apps the SW designer does it whatever way they want. In the case of hexter it is not in the original src, so it resides in the debian directory.
<len-1304> Both desktop file and icon are there, but the icon is not installed.
<micahg> len-1304: just install it in the install file or debian/rules
<micahg> .install
<len-1304> The icon is bad, so I want to make another.
<len-1304> Then I will send them both fixes.
<micahg> ok
<smartboyhw> len-1304, dholbach uploaded  the lmms fix to -proposed
 * smartboyhw really thanks dholbach
<smartboyhw> zequence, so did we get the artwork in?
<zequence> smartboyhw: not yet, but the packages should all be ready for upload now
<zequence> micahg: Was everything ok now for upload?
<smartboyhw> zequence, OK:)
<smartboyhw> Jesus armhf was really slow
<ttoine> hi
<ttoine> hopefully, I will have some time this to write the interview with S Letz
<ttoine> I saw that there is something to review... do I need to do something ?
<zequence> ttoine: It's a merge request by Len yesterday. It seems the -dev team has been requested to review, but I can handle it
<zequence> ttoine: Let me ask you, do you do any development? Why is it that you are a member of -dev?
<zequence> My logic is that we will only be members of teams that specifically touch what you are working on. The -dev team I am making a more strict developer team
<zequence> So, basically only package maintenance
<ttoine> zequence, i don't do development
<ttoine> that's why I am surprised
<ttoine> zequence, I tried Ubuntu Phone this week-end
<ttoine> it is not really ready to use. More like a beautiful demo for traide fair ;-)
<zequence> That's the picture I've gotten watching the videos. I do wonder though, can you access a terminal, or something, or is it just a very static experience?
<ttoine> it is not so static
<ttoine> you can phone and browse the web
<ttoine> but there is no way to bulk import contacts
<zequence> Yes, but can you make any changes?
<ttoine> most of what you can see in the demo is just demo
<zequence> ttoine: So, do you mind if I remove you from the -dev team? That way you wont be notified of those things, and if you aren't going to work on packaging, you won't need the privilege anyway
<ttoine> zequence, no problem at all
<zequence> ok, thanks
<smartboyhw> len-1304, the fix was now in raring-release and the bug was denoted "Fix Released"
<len-1304> smartboyhw, good
<ttoine> zequence, len-1304 astraljava http://community.ardour.org/node/6908
<ttoine> ardour 3 is released
<smartboyhw> ttoine, \o/
<smartboyhw> Is it too late for an FFe?
<ttoine> ffe ??
<smartboyhw> ttoine, Feature Freeze Exception
<ttoine> smartboyhw, you have to pey to get a package version
<smartboyhw> ttoine, !?
 * smartboyhw doesn't understand
<ttoine> sorry
<ttoine> ardour ask downloaders to pay, at least 1$
<ttoine> or sources are available for free
<ttoine> so maybe we should package it for our users
<ttoine> I think I will ask too if harrison mixbus licence owner should pay too
<smartboyhw> ttoine, sources of course:P
<smartboyhw> I think we need to get it through Debian first
<zequence> Debian Multimedia have already prepared for ardour3
<zequence> But, I personally don't think we need to hurry with that
<zequence> If someone wants to.
<zequence> Ubuntu Gnome became an official flavor now
<ttoine> zequence, wtf ?? a derivative with gnome as default desktop ? but wich version of gnome ?
<zequence> ttoine: AFAIK, there's only one Gnome
<zequence> namely, gnome3
<zequence> Already 12.10, you could install the meta ubuntu-gnome-desktop, which was packaged by the same guys
<zequence> I guess they've come up to whatever standard and organization needed in order to be accepted as an official flavor
<ttoine> zequence, yes
<micahg> zequence: yeah, everything was fine, I'll be uploading in a bit
<zequence> len-1304: did you do something with the desktop screenshot?
<zequence> I don't like how it looks
<zequence> I thought my orginal screenshot was ok
<zequence> or, wait
<zequence> Is that the old one. Need to bzr this
<zequence> Ah, yes. Looks much better once I update :)
<Len-nb> zequence, Ya I used the one you sent :)
<Lumpy> ello ello all
<Lumpy> how are you all tonight
<Len-nb> Lumpy, Hello, ok, sore legs today.
<Lumpy> heavy load at the postal office eh?
 * Lumpy says hello Len-nb like sienfeld said hello newman :P
<Len-nb> Time change, lots of magazines
<Lumpy> time changes never phase me much
<Lumpy> my sleep is too irregular to even notice
 * Len-nb is kind of disconnected from the TV world
<Lumpy> me too actually
<Lumpy> just a few shows that rerun late night
<Lumpy> and big bang theory
<Len-nb> It is pretty good that I knew you were talking about TV :)
<Lumpy> but i am a weekly watcher of walking dead
<Lumpy> doing some news tonight
<Len-nb> No cable, no rabbit ears
<Lumpy> got jack set at 92.9 msec latency
<Lumpy> lets see ho that goes
<Lumpy> i still have rabbit ears
<Len-nb> Saying the news or watching?
<Lumpy> we do a monday night tech net news show
<Lumpy> pretty much off the top of our heads
<Lumpy> you are welcome to join us via teamspeak
<Len-nb> I would run out in less than 5 min.
<Lumpy> well that is part of the fun of it
<Lumpy> we mostly discuss it
<Lumpy> so it is more opinion than news
<Lumpy> some big updates for studio soon though aren't there?
<Len-nb> I thiink beta 1 is today
<Lumpy> maybbe you or someone from here would like to enlighten us on that one
<Lumpy> just a suggestion
<Lumpy> no pressure
<Lumpy> brian usually has more news for any given night anyhow
<Len-nb> Ubuntu has been a bit topsy turvy the last few weeks. Some big changes seem to be coming
<Lumpy> also i have a question for you
<Len-nb> We were not sure there was going to be a 13.04
<Lumpy> i did manage to crash out the machine last broadcast
<Lumpy> but there is nothing in the synergy log of any value
<Lumpy> i am wondering if i am crashing out the desktop, or keyboard and mouse
<Lumpy> where would i look for a log or how would i log it?
<Len-nb> /var/log/
<Len-nb> There are a bunch of files
<Lumpy> but wouldn't there be a specific log file to look in?
<Len-nb> messages used to have just about everything
<Lumpy> kk
<Len-nb> but less now. syslog too
<Lumpy> i will start there... i am going to try and replicate it evertime i can
<Lumpy> till i fix it
<Lumpy> problem is it only happens every 6 weeks or so
<Len-nb> mouse/display stuff might show up in Xorg.0.log
<Lumpy> but i see no errors in the synergy logs
<Lumpy> so, for now, I am ruling that out and looking elsewhere
<Lumpy> though i have noticed that synergy hogs resources from time to time
<Lumpy> and my solution is to kill the gui via task manager
#ubuntustudio-devel 2013-03-12
<Lumpy> then the cpu drops back down and synergys just keeps going
<Lumpy> 2 days 16 hours since i last killed the gui
<Len-nb> odd
<Lumpy> ya know
<Lumpy> i attract odd problems
<Lumpy> my xwife is a classic example
<Len-nb> Our ISO is building right now.
<Lumpy> nice, what is the version number going to be?
<Len-nb> 13.04
<Len-nb> This may be our beta, but I don't see releases where I should.
<Len-nb> There are 3 packages that need release and a merge that is still waiting.
 * Len-nb is updating his local copy of the studio ISO
<Lumpy> we just mentioned it on the stream
<Lumpy> and now we are on our weekly walking dead review
<Len-nb> Walking dead? sounds like big city life...
<Len-nb> I remember when I was working in Vancouver watching the "walking dead" make their way to work every morning by the thousands
<Len-nb> Lumpy, I have been using ssh -Y to play with my desktop from my netbook.
<Len-nb> It is slow using wireless (b style... 1 to 11 M) but works. The 100m wired net is better, though I don't think I have ever gotten even half that.
<Lumpy> i have been thinking of other options as well
<Len-nb> What I do is run xfce4-panel as soon as I login
<Len-nb> I have one login set up with just the main menu in the panel
<Len-nb> look here to see how it works: http://www.ovenwerks.net/UStudiodocs/menu.html
<Len-nb> The left menu is for the desktop and the right menu is the local box
<Len-nb> It would not give you the multi monitors you use right now though
<Lumpy> i would be rather lost with out my five monitors
<Len-nb> Email me a map of how you do that sometime
<Lumpy> with the new synergy, it is basically intuative
<Lumpy> you just name the pc and drag and drop it on the grid
<Lumpy> but i will
<Len-nb> I sort of have the idea how it works, but not how you use it for your workflow
<Lumpy> my workflow, minus ts, is basically one machine
<len-1304> So how do you use 5 monitors then?
<len-1304> (on how many machines? 3?)
<len-1304> What do you put on each monitor? Are they in a line?
<Lumpy> i use thee machines
<len-1304> I guessed right
<Lumpy> two on two machines and one on the third
<len-1304> How many keyboards/rodents?
<Lumpy> 1 keyboard, 1 trackball
<Lumpy> two screens for chat
<Lumpy> two for idjc
<Lumpy> and one for anything else i want to use
<len-1304> Two for chat I can see, two for idjc? Hot standby?
<Lumpy> i use screen for the actual deck and such
<Lumpy> and another for the folders that I drag all the music in with
<Lumpy> you going to be up after 10 PM EST?
<len-1304> Ah, that makes sense
<len-1304> Not daylight yet?
<len-1304> We just switched to pdt on the weekend
<Lumpy> we made the switch.. current time here is 21:12
<Lumpy> well 14
<len-1304> I'm 1812
<Lumpy> well if you are going to be up
<Lumpy> we can do a desktop share
<len-1304> I should be
<Lumpy> I will get you the info shortly after we get off the air
<len-1304> May not work out tonight as I am about to start doing test installs
<len-1304> Just loaded studio on a USB stick, xubuntu is next
<Lumpy> no worries, there are always other names
<len-1304> Hmm, xubuntu is now to big for a CD
<Lumpy> i will look over your page after the show
<Lumpy> do you have other stuff on your site as well?
<len-1304> Not much right now
<len-1304> A lot of my ideas for Studio are there but are not on the menu.
<len-1304> I had more but lost it all to a bad backup. Put the new OS in and couldn't get my backup to work :P
<Lumpy> been there done that over that
<Lumpy> lost my entire music drive once... Thank God for photorec and easytag
 * len-1304 wanders off to eat.
<Lumpy> i will bbiaf
<Lumpy> let me know if you are about len
<frewsxcv> astraljava, what's that irc channel for linux audio musicians/producers? 
<micahg> zequence: Len-nb: all 3 packages uploaded, sorry for the delay, if  you want a new ISO with the new packages for beta 1, you'll need to request it in -release, you'll need to give the packages ~2hrs or so to migrate
<micahg> just check to make sure they're all in the release pocket before asking for the respin
<micahg> (or ask if one's planned)
<astraljava> frewsxcv: You're probably thinking of #opensourcemusicians
<zequence> Len-nb: I've set the beta ISO to rebuild
<smartboyhw> zequence, testing the ISO now (downloading from testdrive)
<smartboyhw> Did we update the plymouth theme too? (Since I saw plymouth-theme-ubuntustudio updated)
<smartboyhw> Len-nb, ^
<smartboyhw> zequence, so what did we *change* in Studio 13.04?
 * smartboyhw needs to send out the Ubuntu Studio 13.04 Beta 1 testing annuoncement.
<smartboyhw> And why is it rebuilding?:P
<smartboyhw> The artworks or?
<zequence> smartboyhw: We need to update the build with a few uploads we just had done
<zequence> let me look at some of the changes
<smartboyhw> zequence, thanks:)
<zequence> smartboyhw: I might be missing some stuff, but this should probably do http://paste.ubuntu.com/5607326/
<smartboyhw> zequence, how about artwork?
<smartboyhw> Or that sort of thing?
<zequence> The only difference is a new wallpaper, but that more or less goes without saying
<smartboyhw> zequence, ...
<zequence> Well, we should probably add that ubiquity has been updated too
<smartboyhw> zequence, which one was the default? rock-theme or rock-theme-grey?
<smartboyhw> Just asking
<zequence> rock.png
<zequence> The blue one
<smartboyhw> zequence, and any special things we need to test?
<smartboyhw> Christ it's beautiful
<zequence> smartboyhw: Give me a bit of time. I'll write up a testing procedure
<smartboyhw> zequence, we need a test procedure? Wow (/me wonders why we have so many procedures:P Releases and now this)
<zequence> What we need to test is basically: core audio functionality (same for graphics basically - but I might leave this out), and the new additions
<zequence> For us the desktop is less crucial. The multimedia testing is the most important
<zequence> If there is a grave bug with core multimedia functionality, we should work very hard to get that fixed
<smartboyhw> DAMN I lost the whole email
<zequence> For regular users, I'd say just core multimedia functionality is enough
<smartboyhw> I want to do a Ctrl+C and it replaces all text with 'c'
 * smartboyhw really hates it
<zequence> Can't you use Ctrl+z to recover?
<smartboyhw> zequence, no
<smartboyhw> It's GMail BTW
<smartboyhw> zequence, is http://paste.kde.org/694088/ OK?
<zequence> smartboyhw: Looks good
<zequence> smartboyhw: Feel free to be the spokesperson on testing if you want, so put your name first, if you like
<smartboyhw> zequence, no need:P
<astraljava> Ahhh.... cool, will download beta tonight and give it a go.
<smartboyhw> astraljava, yeah!
 * smartboyhw is happy astraljava is coming back to QA (sort of):P
<astraljava> No time for other than testing, but that's something, aye? :)
<zequence> i see we already have a Ubuntu Studio specific test http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/261/builds/39548/testcases/1455/results
<zequence> Had forgotten about that
<zequence> Might need an update though
<smartboyhw> zequence, yes
<zequence> I think I wrote those instructions
 * zequence feels embarrased over how badly structured it is
<smartboyhw> zequence, yep:P And I uploaded it to the ISO QA Tracker
<smartboyhw> I basically have access to every single testcaes
<smartboyhw> s/testcaes/testcase/
<kubotu> smartboyhw meant: "I basically have access to every single testcase"
<zequence> smartboyhw: Let's update that test. No later than tomorrow
<smartboyhw> zequence, you want to update it?
<smartboyhw> zequence, :)
<zequence> I'll ping you when I have something
<smartboyhw> zequence, OK:P
<smartboyhw> zequence, make sure it fits the formats
<zequence> smartboyhw: Which are the formats?
<smartboyhw> zequence, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/ContributingTestcases/ManualStyleGuide
<smartboyhw> you can run a script to check:)
<zequence> smartboyhw: ok, I will have a look
<smartboyhw> zequence, :)
<zequence> http://www.lwks.com/email/news_rsn_mar12.html
<zequence> Lightworks demp
<zequence> demo*
<smartboyhw> Why doesn't the ISO load the live session!?
<smartboyhw> Ah it does now:P
<Len-nb> zequence, the slideshow has been merged
<zequence> Len-nb: Yep. Saw a notice
<Len-nb> I don't know when it will be released though. Xubuntu has some changes to make too
<zequence> ok
<Len-nb> And edubuntu
<zequence> I was just in #ubuntu-release requesting a rebuild of our beta1 ISO
<zequence> building now
<Len-nb> Have our settings/look/etc been released?
<zequence> I upgraded a ubuntustudio install earlier today, and it seemed ok
<zequence> Yes, this morning
<zequence> Well, morning for me
<Len-nb> cool
<zequence> Yesterday midnight for you
<Len-nb> Ah
<Len-nb> I tested xubuntu 32bit last night
<zequence> Big difference?
<Len-nb> I can do ours tonight
<Len-nb> I have been running xubuntu 13.04 on my netbook for a few weeks now... the settings manager is the biggest thing.
<zequence> Len-nb: btw, no pulseaudio oddities for you?
 * Len-nb is not sure their settings manager is right either
<Len-nb> PA has been fine.
<zequence> I mostly use Gnome, and I've had some weird problems with the volume applet causing PA to do fast repeats for a while
<Len-nb> The big problem I have with xubuntu is I have to open alsamixer to get any sound
<zequence> It doesn't happen right away though. After maybe 15 min of use. 
<Len-nb> It works fine for most internal sound setups, but not with an ice1712..
<zequence> Len-nb: For your onboard, or m-audio?
<Len-nb> the maudio
<zequence> Well, it's the way it is. PA is not supposed to raise the HW levels
<Len-nb> I don't have speakers hooked up to the internal.
<Len-nb> Ya, I didn't call it a bug
<zequence> It would be nice if the PA mixer would include all the stuff that alsa reveals
<Len-nb> No, I don't think so
<zequence> Really no reason not to, I think
<Len-nb> For most people it would be too much
<zequence> Most people don't use multichannel audio devices
<Len-nb> Right and for them things just work
<zequence> They do however get everything that alsa shows
<Len-nb> Installing gedit on xubuntu requires a reboot
<zequence> Since, onboard devices adhere to certain standards that multichannel devices don't
<Len-nb> Ya they do now.
<zequence> Or, I should say pro audio devices
<Len-nb> Many people do not consider my delta as pro
<zequence> It wouldn't hurt to have a aux section with levels that didn't fit the standards
<Len-nb> I don't know what the answer is.
<zequence> Pro, semi/pro, what's the difference, other than quality and price?
<Len-nb> We have extra mixers for that
<zequence> It's not a consumer card anywayu
<zequence> Yes, we do
<Len-nb> true
<zequence> But, as you just said, you aren't able to control your device from PA
<zequence> And, that is pretty confusing
<Len-nb> personally, I can't tell the difference
<Len-nb> It is better than having PA change my levels after I have them set.
<Len-nb> On my netbook, I set my input with mic boost off and use atten at 0. as soon as something opens a pa port, pa changes it to mic boost on and atten reduced
<Len-nb> mic boost is noisy....
<Len-nb> With the d66, whatever I set on the inputs stays that way.
<Len-nb> For pro work that is much better.
<Len-nb> PA can control device levels even if jack is using that port with my internal device
<zequence> I suspect that is because on those devices, the software level and the hardware level are one and the same
<Len-nb> No, it is because the boost is big 10db jumps
<Len-nb> rather than getting the big jumps at the top, pa starts with atten 30db down
<zequence> When you change the volume for you onboard device using PA, there is only one level to be changed. HW and SW are one and the same. When you change the master level for m-audio, it's just a SW level.
<Len-nb> atten goes up 1 or 2 db at atime till almost -20db then goes back to -30db with +10 boost
<Len-nb> It looks like one level, but it controls both
<Len-nb> watching alsamixer shows two levels moving. sometimes big jumps. after the HW is to max then SW cuts in... so that makes three levels one pa control plays with
<zequence> When you use PA with m-audio, nothing moves in the alsamixer
<Len-nb> Yes that is correct
<Len-nb> I was talking about the internal device... which is why I am glad pa doesn't mess with it
<zequence> On my onboard however, there is actually per output controls. And PA only controls the master
<Len-nb> even if it does take more steps to get sound the first time
<zequence> And if the master shows in alsamixer, I suspect that is also a HW level. Not just a SW one
<Len-nb> Mine does funny things because the two outputs are speaker and headphone.
<zequence> My headphones level isn't changing. Neither is PCM. Only one called Master
<Len-nb> plugging and unplugging the PH shows the pa master vol jumping between the two levels
<zequence> My PA mixer just crashed, when I tried selecting another input
 * Len-nb has to go pick up son
<zequence> That's device specific
<zequence> Len-nb: When I plug in headphones on a laptop, a "Speaker" level is muted
<zequence> What also happens is that PA remembers which level you had on headphones
<zequence> And will change to that
<zequence> When you unplug, the level changes back to what it was before
<zequence> My mic input is slightly amplified too
<Len-nb> iso roll is finished
<zequence> Len-nb: Besides the slideshow not being updated, and if all is bug free, do you have any more changes you would like to do at all?
<zequence> I'm hoping we can be done soon for this release, and start planning for the next one already
<zequence> I have some big plans for next release. Want to really make things happen this time around
<zequence> We still need to do testing of course
<zequence> My vbox aint working
<ubuntu-studio> Apparently my onboard stereo outs are nr.5 and 6 out of 8
<ubuntu-studio> So, when I start jack, the PA sink connects with the wrong channels
<ubuntu-studio> Too bad
<holstein> thats rather hardware specific though
<holstein> and you can re-route it easily
<ubuntu-studio> It is
<ubuntu-studio> But, its still too bad
<holstein> yeah?
<ubuntu-studio> Theres no way to make PA connect with your jack stereo out automatically. all though, in my case, this will be the case with all jack apps
<holstein> well, with *your* jack stereo automatically
<ubuntu-studio> Did I say anything else
<holstein> so far, its worked out of the box on my hardware, though i disable it
<holstein> yeah, you said "your"
<ubuntu-studio> Anyone with this device
<holstein> and mine is fine :)
<holstein> wonder who we would have to bug to get that working properly..
 * micahg says not it
<holstein> micahg: lol ..i was thinking it could be *way* upstream
<ubuntu-studio> holstein, btw, its zequence
<ubuntu-studio> Im trying out the live DVD
<holstein> i was assuming it was you
<holstein> was it like that in 12.04? or do you remember?
<ubuntu-studio> I dont usually use the onboard device. The interface is all done in ALSA
<ubuntu-studio> So, probably its been that way from the start
<ubuntu-studio> But, wait
<ubuntu-studio> Ah, yeah. Its just jack that doesnt care about that sort of thing
<ubuntu-studio> It just lists all the outputs
<ubuntu-studio> In order
<ubuntu-studio> autoconnection in jack is a little messy IMO
<ubuntu-studio> Havent used sessions much though. Perhaps they can terminate unwanted auto connections
<ubuntu-studio> When using the qjackctl patchbay, you still get autoconnects - whatever connections you add
<ubuntu-studio> plus, not -
<ubuntu-studio> Ive got an American keyboard
<ubuntu-studio> I'm a little amazed. No xruns at 32 frames/period, as long as I don't don't touch any windows
<ubuntu-studio> noveau is otherwise not good at low latencies
<ubuntu-studio> I'm getting the weird PA fast repeats on here too. Been that way since PA 3.0
<ubuntu-studio> But, other than that, things look pretty ok to me
<ubuntu-studio> Text in Krita is white, against white background (at least this opening window)
#ubuntustudio-devel 2013-03-13
<Lumpy> darn forgot again
<Lumpy> i /was/ away
<Lumpy> and now i actually am
<len-live> zequence, FYI, the way xubuntu has done the settings manager ends up with stuff that really should be in the system menu in the settings manager.
<len-live> The categories tags in the settings/system apps are not well done.
<len-live> I think I will make a list of what we have and what xubuntu has so you can see what I mean.
<Lump|AFK> hey len
<len-live> Hello
<Lump|AFK> for what it is worth, i have gotten very used to the current menu
<Lump|AFK> and despite what i said earlier
<len-live> Spent the evening last night doing xubuntu installs and tests.
<Lump|AFK> i am rather liking the redundancy on certain items
<Lump|AFK> i figured such
<len-live> Ya, it is pretty good.
<Lump|AFK> i spent last night sleeping after the show
<Lump|AFK> and today i had the eye exam from hell
<Lump|AFK> and walked home from china town with a 100 pound load
<len-live> What I see is that it is confusing having a settings manager with some settings and then a settings menu with some others.
<len-live> Walking with weight is not fun.
<Lump|AFK> i agree with you on that...
<Lump|AFK> but consider the mint menus
<len-live> Xubuntu has all settings in the settings manager
<len-live> But in doing so have ended up with some non-settings stuff in there too.
<Lump|AFK> i am not toatally familar with it but they do redundancy similar to how studio does so with audio
<Lump|AFK> and as far as walking with weight goes
<Lump|AFK> i certainly felt my partially fused lumbar Vs
<Lump|AFK> but felt pretty good considering i was told i would not be able to ever walk again without a limp
<len-live> We are generally limited to about 40 pounds, but most of the weight is carried on the hips.
<Lumpy> i shall chat a while
<Lumpy> i had 50 pounds, the rice, on my head
<Lumpy> the walk was only about 2 miles
<Lumpy> then i got on a bus
<len-live> I walk a bit farther than that... 12 to 15 miles I think.
<Lumpy> oh i walked more than 2
<Lumpy> that was just the load part
<len-live> Makes sense.
<Lumpy> nonetheless, walking is part of how you and i look as good as we do at our age.. ;)
<Lumpy> and on menu issues
<Lumpy> i am rethinking my earlier statements
<Lumpy> users will figure it out
<Lumpy> i think redundancy might be better in the long run
<Lumpy> users like those who use linux
<len-live> They might figure it out faster if they find it faster because it is in the first place they look :)
<Lumpy> kk
<Lumpy> but
<Lumpy> us linux users are already rather accepting about figuriing it out
<Lumpy> just saying
<len-live> The main reason we started doing menu mods at all is because when using one kind of program... the one menu gets really ful quick.
<Lumpy> and putting it in several places might actually let one reduce clicks
<Lumpy> for what it is worth
<len-live> So the multi media menu would have more items than fit in the screen on the menu.
<len-live> This also makes it hard to find apps.
<Lumpy> agreed
<Lumpy> maybe create a new main menu option
<Lumpy> just a thought off the top of my head but
<Lumpy> something like "streaming", "production", etc
<Lumpy> i used to set up folders on the desktop for such
<len-live> I think I would make it a part of  internet or audio.
<Lumpy> with studio I now just look in "audio production"
<len-live> Anyway, my son has food ready... time to eat. Back after...
<Lumpy> the one nag is that idjc ends up in internet
<Lumpy> i will likely be outie len
<Lumpy> we will pick this up later
<Lumpy> and again, let me know if you guys want a stream channel
<len-live> Install time
<Lump|AFK> have fun
<len-live> Lump|AFK, it is also possible to create custom menus
<len-live> Like have a second menu next to the application menu for just your workflow.
<Lump|AFK> oh, that i must learn
<Lump|AFK> kinda like how i have been doing the cli stuff to launch a stream eh?
<len-live> I am thinking it may make sense to make a few pre made ones that the user can install
<Lump|AFK> i luv what you showed me regarding meterbridge
<Lump|AFK> part of my regular start up now
<len-live> You could have it auto connect too
<Lump|AFK> i agree that it makes much sense
<len-live> I don't know how easy it would be.
<Lump|AFK> in my case, i would not use auto connect
<Lump|AFK> since i launch it and then fill the queue
<len-live> I should talk to bluesabre, he is working on a menu editor.
<Lump|AFK> i set idjc for a timed launch after i am loaded
<len-live> Your meters could probably be audo connected.
<Lump|AFK> your cli command does that well enough but i do see the point
<Lump|AFK> imho, a great idea
<len-live> You should be able to have your control room start up all there. and "wired"
<Lump|AFK> right now, all i need do is add one connection
<Lump|AFK> that is because i am not jiggy with the launching jack rack
<Lump|AFK> but you are, imho, on a great idea
<Lump|AFK> single button launch would rawk
<len-live> In studio talk that would be a session. what we use a session manager for.
<len-live> There are 3 of them these days.
<Lump|AFK> i was looking into jack session stuff last night actually
<len-live> Studio ships two
<Lump|AFK> i think ther might be a way to do it in that
<len-live> LADI is the other
<Lump|AFK> but i am not the guru you all are
<len-live> NSM is also around
<len-live> Actually I have yet to start using sessions either.
<Lump|AFK> well now we have something to collaberate on
<Lump|AFK> but, for now, i have a rather ill child and need to tend to him
<Lump|AFK> so forgive me as i actually get with my nick
<Lump|AFK> i shall ttyl
<len-live> Bye
<Lump|AFK> have a great night/day and thanks for both the understanding and all the recent help
<len-live> glad it helped.
<Lump|AFK> i think the kid is hacking out his spleen atm
<len-live> feed them more bacteria... Works for me.
<Lump|AFK> I got the chicken soup on the burner
<Lump|AFK> and that reminds me
<len-live> Thats good too.
<Lump|AFK> we need to talk bread again soon
<len-live> Not here :)
<Lump|AFK> you know where i hang and my email
<len-live> yup
<Lump|AFK> bread lovers should unite :P
<Lump|AFK> although i should warn you i am also a big rice fan
<len-live> wild? Black?
<Lump|AFK> white, black, brown, yellow
<Lump|AFK> you name it i have it
<Lump|AFK> beans as well
<Lump|AFK> if it can be stored, i have it
<len-1304> zequence, Re. lightdm BG, The COF in the centre is covered by the login dialog
<zequence> len-1304: That's perfectly ok
<zequence> I'd even prefer there not being one at all in the login
<zequence> ..dialog
<zequence> However, the ratio is not the same in the login dialog
<zequence> While you load, you see a squeezed COF
<zequence> maybe not on all screen rations
<zequence> I'm creating a suit of scripts for testing and support. QA testing, performance testing and user support.
<zequence> suite*
<smartboyhw> zequence, how are you working on the new testcase?
<zequence> smartboyhw: There are only two things that are pointless for this cycle: 
<zequence> Applications
<zequence> Click the "Ubuntu Studio Information" item menu in the menu. Does all the links included in there work? (e.g. Ubuntu Studio IRC, Ubuntu Studio Forums, etc.)
<smartboyhw> zequence, and?
<zequence> And the last item 4. If you are connected to the Internet, Open Firefox and load ubuntustudio.org Confirm that the page loads
<zequence> If you could remove those two, that would be enough I think
<smartboyhw> zequence, well just bzr pull lp:ubuntu-manual-tests and change and propose a merge. I will help the import:P
<zequence> I'm going to prepare QA testing scripts
<smartboyhw> We have bzr branches for that
<smartboyhw> zequence, yeah!
<zequence> But, not for this cycle
<zequence> I'm working on it right now
<smartboyhw> zequence, :P
<smartboyhw> OK
<zequence> Well, I might be interested in removing some other stuff too, when I look at this
<zequence> Do we need a usb stick test?
<smartboyhw> zequence, and write some stuff?
<zequence> Or, Software Center test?
<smartboyhw> zequence, well if you think it's necessary then please. I wouldn't go for the Software Center one though
<smartboyhw> It is for application cadence week testing.
<zequence> I'm going to make it just a jack audio test. That should be enough
<smartboyhw> zequence, you want to see if the images load the wallpapers too?
<zequence> smartboyhw: Seems to work. I had a go yesterday
<zequence> That won't be hardware specific, or anything
<zequence> The audio check is something that might be very different on different machines, so it would actually be useful for us to do testing not only this late, but every month at least
<zequence> smartboyhw: Anyway to smoketest the test sheets?
<smartboyhw> zequence, no. I will test the Kubuntu  ones first:P
<smartboyhw> And TestDrive doesn't enable drives > 8 GB, and Virtualbox has crappy kernel support
<zequence> smartboyhw: I made a merge request
<smartboyhw> zequence, OK. I should receive the e-mail soon
<smartboyhw> zequence, send me just the new test file please
<zequence> smartboyhw: what do you mean? I've updated the original. There's no new file
<smartboyhw> zequence, then the updated flie
<smartboyhw> s/flie/file/
<kubotu> smartboyhw meant: "zequence, then the updated file"
<smartboyhw> Since I think I spotted an error already:P
<zequence> smartboyhw: The file is in the bzr branch. Don't you have access to a computer?
<smartboyhw> zequence, Reviewed as "Needs fixing" (Just a typo)
<zequence> Just fix it, and merge it
<smartboyhw> zequence, well alright then
<smartboyhw> zequence, BTW you clearly forgotten to do `bzr launchpad-login zequence`. Just seeing it from the merge. No problems, but:)
<zequence> I didn't forget, but perhaps it didn't work
<zequence> It doesn't give you any errors
<smartboyhw> zequence, doesn't
<zequence> I'm not at home now, so I probably don't have the right key
<zequence> Well, that's that then. Let's hope there is little more to do before release, except testing. I really want to focus on what happens next
<smartboyhw> zequence, done
<zequence> Ah, daaamn. I forgot to add one detail
<zequence> smartboyhw: You should be getting another merge request soon
<smartboyhw> zequence, OK:P
<smartboyhw> zequence, got it
<smartboyhw> zequence, done
<smartboyhw> zequence, do we want Ardour3 in? It's packaged at debian
 * smartboyhw is finally actually testing the images
<smartboyhw> zequence, hmm the wallpaper isn't selected by default in the live image
 * smartboyhw thinks it might be him not zsycing the image though
<Mish> ok people a noob question : if you start a new thread in the mailing list you are supposed to receive it as well right?
<smartboyhw> Mish, no
<smartboyhw> lol
<Mish> smartboyhw, thanks XD
<ttoine> http://www.redsharknews.com/technology/item/512-lightworks-for-linux-first-ever-official-full-length-demo
<zequence> Mish: Yes, you're supposed to receive it, if you're subscribed to the list
<Mish> so what did smartboy mean then?
<zequence> Mish: There's also mail client configurations on how mail is displayed
<zequence> Maybe he was mistaken
<Mish> hmm.....ACtually I did post a new thread regarding the wallpaper, but haven't received it myself yet
<Mish> So I was wondering if others couldn't see it as well
<zequence> Mish: There's no new mail about wallpapers what I can see
<zequence> Mish: Are you subscribed?
<Mish> yes I am
<zequence> Mish: Wait
<zequence> I missed it before. I see it now
<Mish> the subject should be "Wallpaper design"
<zequence> Mish: Cool looking stuff
<Mish> you got it?
<zequence> Yes
<Mish> cool, I wonder why I didn't get it though
<zequence> gmail may do things differently, and there's also the client configurations 
<Mish> yeah, possible
<zequence> The mail list will send you mail, no matter who sent to the mail lsit
<Mish> I'll check if there's some gmail specific setting doing it
<Mish> THanks for the help zequence, bb all
<len-1304> zequence, have you seen this? http://burnstation.net/indexnew.html and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wWJP8VTXSEQ&list=PL32C0B416E333C155
<len-1304> I don't know that this fits with a workflow, but it reminds me of one of the things Scott said about including something that allows publishing audio/video/art/books to internet.
<len-1304> I don't think we have really covered that part of things... or if there is even SW that might work.
<zequence> len-1304: looks interesting
<len-1304> It would be great to include in our Docs suggestions of web sites that are good places for independent artists to sell or showcase their product.
<zequence> len-1304: Have you had a chance to try the live DVD yet?
<len-1304> Running on the install now. The live version seemed to be fine too.
<len-1304> 32 bit of coarse.
<len-1304> No problems with jack, pulse of both together
<zequence> Yeah, they work pretty flawlessly now
<zequence> All though, I find that pulse is behaving differently now
<zequence> I do however have a weird bug on one of my machines, that I haven't been able to reproduce on any other yet
<zequence> I'm suspecting it has something to do with my onboard card
<len-1304> I have run over a hour's worth of audio through with no problems
<zequence> the stuttering audio, when changing pulse volume, which I told you about before
<len-1304> I haven't been watching that close but it seems to me there was something like that in the pulse mailing list.
<len-1304> I haven't been reading all the messages, just the topic for the most part.
<zequence> Ok. I probably missed it
<zequence> I have trouble keeping up with my mail lately. Need to put together some better filtering. I need to move to MUTT, cause I don't want to do it all at my email service provider
<len-1304> It could be either that the card has big jumps from one level to the next or something like that.
<zequence> The input is not showing on one of the mixers, and when I try changing it, the mixer crashes
<zequence> The volume stutters, as it gets stuck in a loop
<zequence> I run pulseaudio in verbose, and it was complaining it couldn't get hold of a device
<zequence> I wasn't running jack or anything
<len-1304> Ah, I have had that when bridging pa-jack at too low of a latency.
<zequence> Or, the audio stutters, i mean, when I try changing the volume
<len-1304> Like it is reading the saem buffer moe than once
<zequence> Yeah
<zequence> About 500ms or so long
<zequence> Maybe a bit less
<len-1304> Sometimes that is the app feeding pulse too. One of the phone apps did that to me.
<zequence> This never happened before PA 3
<len-1304> So one thing fixed and another broken.
<len-1304> The only thing I am aware that is broken right now is catfish
<len-1304> The fix is just waiting up load and should be there for beta2
<len-1304> I have tested the fix and it seems to work really well, it seems faster than the search that nautilus used to have too.
<len-1304> zequence, here is a missing workflow... http://dvswitch.alioth.debian.org/wiki/
<len-1304> Live video switching
<zequence> len-1304: Anything live is probably good to add
<len-1304> next release
<zequence> Yeah'
<zequence> taking a nap. It's after midnight after all
<len-1304> more than a nap then GN
<zequence> len-1304: I'm getting really frustrated with my lack of knowledge in some areas, and to get your head around a lot of it, I find that the only way to go is Debian. http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/
<zequence> http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/maint-guide/index.en.html
<zequence> This one is good too http://debian-handbook.info/
<zequence> There's no other way to get around it. Just gotta start reading through that stuff
<zequence> GN
#ubuntustudio-devel 2013-03-14
<len-1304> zequence, I notice we are back to terminal and filemanager are not preselected. On first use the user gets a select app dialog.
<Lump|AFK> is the new iso available yet?
<Lump|AFK> also, len, i looked over all the error logs i could think of and i am not seeing anything that is of comprehendable use to me
<len-1304> Which new ISO? There is 13.04 beta 1 and soon we will be back to daily releases.
<Lump|AFK> the one you guys were working on Monday night, which i think would be the beta
<Lump|AFK> bbiaf, then i can actually be less than hereish
<len-1304> Lump|AFK, we were thinking audio took a lot fo resources.... I am looking at the README for dvswitch, a live video switcher.
<len-1304> Takes two video sources and an audio source and creates an output stream (video/audio)
<len-1304> The suggested setup has more than one computer. Basically one computer for each input video stream and one for the output.
<len-1304> I think the source computers are because firewire and USB cables are quite short and network cables can be long.
<len-1304> I shall have to try it out. A couple of webcams should work.
<Lumpy> still got a ton of emails to sift through but i am actually here now
<Lumpy> what is this video program again
<len-1304> dvswitch
<Lumpy> becuase if you have something that is resource light
<Lumpy> that is what i am looking for
<len-1304> http://dvswitch.alioth.debian.org/wiki/
<Lumpy> webcam studio for linux is okay
<Lumpy> but it is clunky and not really being developed anymore
<Lumpy> that and i can't run it on the power pc
<len-1304> This is made for nice cameras :)
<Lumpy> i don't have very nice cameras, just cheesy web cams
<Lumpy> only on which is high def
<len-1304> but it will work with whatever video stream so long as they are all the same
<Lumpy> as in all the same resolution?
<Lumpy> or exact same cameras?
<len-1304> and frame rate
<len-1304> they can be different cameras
<len-1304> But both ntsc and both same res
<len-1304> (or both pal)
<Lumpy> looking over the link right now
<len-1304> They show and output link to stream via icecast
<len-1304> It is in the ubuntu repos. I downloaded and looked through the README
<len-1304> There are actually 3 packages to download.
<len-1304> The switch, the source (not code but video source) and sink.
<Lumpy> i am looking at the example videos
<len-1304> They are separated because you may only use one of the packages on any one computer.
<Lumpy> this does look to have nice potential
<Lumpy> matching frame rate, etc is not really big deal
<Lumpy> actually a good idea in most cases
<len-1304> It could be a good way to do live video for a concert for example.
<Lumpy> i am watching the choir example at youtube... it is a nice way to do a live concert
<len-1304> Not needed for making a video really, The whole thing could have been done in post production, but it would be great for providing foyer video or overflow video.
<len-1304> Also good for side screens and such.
<Lumpy> well looks like i have something else on my todo list now
<len-1304> :)
<Lumpy> next thing is to remember where the heck i put my cameras
<len-1304> I have a few netbooks with built in web cams. They could work as sources
<Lumpy> as do i
<Lumpy> between my two cams, my lappy and my fiance's machine we could do a four camera show
<len-1304> Need more people. That would require at least4 more people assuming one camera is static.
<Lumpy> not really i am talking in the studio
<Lumpy> all four could be static in that case
<Lumpy> it is not like i do back flips while on the air
<len-1304> I guess all could be static, three pointed close up on one person and one viewing all three. then you just neew a switcher/producer.
<Lumpy> i gave that up when i stopped playing in rock bands
<Lumpy> or i can multitask
<Lumpy> which i can do poorly enough to make it into comedy :P
<len-1304> :)
<len-1304> http://dvswitch.alioth.debian.org/wiki/conference/ shows what I mean by needing people.
<len-1304> Having worked in a TV studio, I have a reasonable idea what all the positions they mention do.... in fact I could add a few.
 * len-1304 is off to play with the family
<Lumpy> i will look that link over as well
<Lumpy> i am burried with ework atm
<Lumpy> thanks for making my list longer
<smartboyhw> Hello
 * smartboyhw zsyncs the image now:P
<smartboyhw> len-1304, or Len-nb please also do the Post-installation test:)
<smartboyhw> And can somebody run the upgrade tests? Might not have time to do so today
<smartboyhw> zequence, any time?
<smartboyhw> Jesus our release procedure hasn't been used at all
 * smartboyhw tries to implement it:P
<smartboyhw> First of all: Make release notes
<smartboyhw> Second: Complete all tests
<smartboyhw> !testers
<smartboyhw> ..............
<smartboyhw> Next time we really need to make use of ubottu
<smartboyhw> And next time we need a template for Release Notes
<zequence> smartboyhw: I will be doing all of the tests during this week for both archs, np
<smartboyhw> zequence, eh Beta 1 is today:P
<smartboyhw> zequence, I am starting to think of removing the upgrade tests once-and-for-all
<zequence> smartboyhw: Do that. We haven't put any effort on it, and only if we think it should work should we test it
<smartboyhw> zequence, +1
<zequence> Better we recommend people to do a fresh install
<zequence> I might have misunderstood about the beta1. I thought we do testing after it's released, but you're saying we need to test it before release
<smartboyhw> zequence, of course we do testing BEFORE betas:p
<smartboyhw> That's what ISO testing means
<smartboyhw> To probably test the images before releaes
<zequence> Ok, I can do the amd64 tests today
<zequence> Too bad I didn't bring my usb stick
<smartboyhw> zequence, well do the i386
<smartboyhw> I did the amd64 already
<smartboyhw> zequence, but do you mean the upgrade ones or?
<zequence> smartboyhw: So, you filled out the wrong arch?
<zequence> It says i386 (2/2)
<smartboyhw> Actually what we are missing now is a post-installation one
<smartboyhw> zequence, I think that's not me
<smartboyhw> zequence, that's len-1304 LOL
<smartboyhw> ROFL
<zequence> Ah, I hadn't refreshed
<zequence> Ok, so post-installation for i386. 
<zequence> I'll be ready in one hour or so
<smartboyhw> zequence, good:)
<smartboyhw> zequence, is https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RaringRingtail/Beta1/UbuntuStudio good enough?
<zequence> smartboyhw: The rock wallpaper is not default yet
<smartboyhw> zequence, eh isn't it!?
<zequence> It's only changed for the beta so far, and we can replace it
<smartboyhw> zequence, then we can say "Temporaily default wallpaper for Beta 1":P
<smartboyhw> zequence, is it OK? I think we need to get the release annoucement on ubuntustudio.org a.s.a.p so we can provide the link to the Ubuntu Release team
<smartboyhw> s/it/the release notes/
<kubotu> smartboyhw meant: "zequence, is the release notes OK? I think we need to get the release annoucement on ubuntustudio.org a.s.a.p so we can provide the link to the Ubuntu Release team"
<smartboyhw> NO I mean my suggested edit
<smartboyhw> Damn
<smartboyhw> Sort of a checklist in real time: http://etherpad.ubuntu.com/2bq42lItlT
<zequence> smartboyhw: Looks good to me
<smartboyhw> zequence, OK:)
<smartboyhw> zequence, it's high time we ask for marking the images ready
<smartboyhw> Now let's get the things kicked out (the annoucements + channel topics)
<smartboyhw> The release notes are in http://ubuntustudio.org/2013/03/ubuntu-studio-13-04-beta-1-release-notes/ now
<smartboyhw> zequence, please make a proper annoucement:)
<zequence> smartboyhw: When will the beta links appear, do you thinkg?
<zequence> think?
<zequence> ..for the ISOs
<zequence> We don't have http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntustudio/releases/13.04 yet
<zequence> len-1304: The only change before user interface freeze I want to do is add maybe on or two wallpapers that have been submitted, and possibly change the default, if that is what people want
<zequence> smartboyhw: I can't make any announcements before we have the betas ready. I guess they are building?
<Len-nb> I thought I did them all for 32bit
<Len-nb> Sorry if I missed filling one.
<Len-nb> Or is there another roll?
<zequence> len-1304: There was just the post install bit, testing jack a bit
<zequence> The ISO is marked ready now
<smartboyhw> zequence, you need to wait till the Ubuntu Release team publishs it
<zequence> So, we only really have two areas of workitems in the blueprints left to be done. I didn't want to touch scotts blueprints, I'd rather he changed them himself. And there's no particular hurry.
<zequence> The last workitem in the audio workflow is not really release based.
<zequence> I should just move it
<smartboyhw> zequence, :)
<zequence> Actually, it already was in two places. We have a blueprint for SRUs
<zequence> Ok, so just the artwork left then, which is how it should be
<smartboyhw> zequence, :)
<len-1304> zequence, I have to click the submit button.
<len-1304> exit
<smartboyhw> len-1304, !?
<smartboyhw> ....
<smartboyhw> ttoine, hello
 * len-1304 want focus follows mind
<smartboyhw> ttoine, we are to release 13.04 Beta 1 soon:)
 * smartboyhw really hates doing last-minute testing:P
<smartboyhw> Kubuntu + UbuntuKylin....
<zequence> Leaving the "office", bb in a couple of hours (might stop by somewhere to buy a switch)
<smartboyhw> zequence, bye bye
<zequence> smartboyhw: I see you made an announcement
<zequence> And yet, there is no beta
<smartboyhw> zequence, stgraber needs a link so....
<zequence> smartboyhw: No need to publish it
<zequence> Anyway, I can edit the post
<smartboyhw> ok
<zequence> There's no point in announcing something that isn't yet decided or release, such as the wallpaper
<smartboyhw> ok
<zequence> smartboyhw: What I did now is I made it private
<zequence> But, making it a draft is probably better
<zequence> It has a link even if it's only a draft
<zequence> When it's private, only people who have editing rights will see it
<smartboyhw> ok
<zequence> smartboyhw: Good work on the release notes and so forth. I could add you to facebook as a content creater, to let you announce the release on all sites, but I don't have control of our G+ page
<zequence> Maybe I can do it this time, and once I've talked to Scott, we could add you so you can make the final announcments (final beta, etc)
<zequence> smartboyhw: I think it would be a good idea that you always let someone review what you have written before you post though
<zequence> Just to have a second pair of eyes look through the text
<zequence> I'm going to put together a selection of the wallpapers that have been submitted so far
<zequence> I was hoping Scott would appear and comment on this
<zequence> Because of the lack of time, I think it'll be hard to put together any kind of community vote
<tbo_> Hi
<zequence> tbo_: Hello
<tbo_> I just tried to download the 13.04 Beta 1 image of UbuntuStudio but the link says only 404 not found :-(   (at http://ubuntustudio.org/2013/03/ubuntu-studio-13-04-beta-1-testing-is-now-on/)
<zequence> ..and the idea of the community participating in art selection maybe is not the best idea anyway.
<zequence> tbo_: It's not built yet
<zequence> tbo_: I made that page private. Are you still seeing it?
<zequence> hmm, seems so
<tbo_> ah, ok... there was another link at the bottom of the page, that works
<zequence> tbo_: The other link is not the official Beta 1, but the testing version for beta 1
<zequence> It's almost the same
<tbo_> I'll give it a try :-)
<zequence> Ok, so I put up the wallpapers. I'll give it a couple of days. If Scott doesn't show up before Monday or so, I think we should just go ahead and decide for ourselves
<Len-nb> zequence, redoing hexter categories in desktop file.
<Len-nb> removed audiovideo :P
<zequence> Len-nb: We should push that upstream to Debian
<Len-nb> Has audio, but there is no generator category in the opendesktop pages.
<Len-nb> Ya I am making a diff
<zequence> IMO generator is not a valid category
<Len-nb> I am guessing I will add MIDI,
<zequence> It's a software instrument, virtual synthesizer
<Len-nb> They have an X-sequencer, but that is not standard
<Len-nb> There is no standard category for that
<zequence> Maybe there should be
<zequence> Software instrument is a known conept
<zequence> concept
<Len-nb> sorry they have X-Synthesis.
<Len-nb> I agree.
<zequence> If I would guess, whoever made the categories for freedesktop wasn't that deeply involved in audio
<Len-nb> I would think audio,MIDI,Instrument would be make sense
<Len-nb> There are updates... we should make ourselves involved I guess.
<zequence> All of them apply. midi in, audio out
<zequence> Yes, I think so
<Len-nb> Well I have audio and midi.
<zequence> We should put our effort on the details that we are experts at
<zequence> midi can be misinformative though
<Len-nb> Maybe a midi filter shold not have audio
<zequence> Since it's not processing midi. Just controlled by it
<zequence> audio seems like a very broad term, and could fit anything that was related to music production
<Len-nb> I'm mostly thinking of being able to deal with it menu wise without modifying the menu on a per-app basis
<zequence> It would be best if the menu used variables over custom entries, yes
<Len-nb> synthisis is nice.
<zequence> I think of these as tags
<zequence> The problem with a menu, like the one in XFCE, and all the older desktops is that if you have too many tags, applications will flood the menu
<zequence> This is not a problem in a dash
<zequence> ..where you could use tags to properly describe any application, using as many tags as you want
<Len-nb> XFCE menu can not flood with careful defining of subs.
 * Len-nb has to pick son up.
<zequence> It will if you start adding 4-5 tags to each desktop file
<zequence> audio is a broad tag, and should probably be used on all audio related apps. For Hexter, Software Instrument would be my second choice
<zequence> synthesis is true, but it's subordered to the concept of it being an instrument
<zequence> In fact, "generation" should be renamed either "Software Instruments", or just "instruments"
<zequence> Some instruments use synthesis, others samples
<zequence> Len-nb: Ok, so if we add those categories/tags that absolutely work for each application, I'd agree on that being a good way to start
<zequence> If we find that there should me more categories, like Software Instrument (which might be difficult to get in, cause it doesn't say it's audio related, btw), then we add those to a list, and work on getting them accepted to freedesktop
<zequence> Len-nb: For the additional categories, there's "Related Categories", and that's what makes it possible to use names that don't immediately make everyone aware of what main category it belongs to http://standards.freedesktop.org/menu-spec/latest/apas02.html
<zequence> So, I would really go for Software Instrument as the main additional category for Hexter
<Len-nb> That where I was looking.
<Len-nb> I think the idea is that you use at least one main category and then add to it to farther define it.
<zequence> Yeah
<Len-nb> That way a menu that only knows the main categories still works
<zequence> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/FreedesktopCategories
<zequence> If we can put together a list of possible categories, we can then argue which one are good to use, how they should be named, etc
<Len-nb> I thought about plugin, but a plugin is never standalone
<Len-nb> if it is it should be called by its function
<zequence> Some applications are both
<zequence> Software instruments often are both standalone, and can act as plugins, so both categories apply to those
<Len-nb> Yes, but as a desktop menu item it should be called by its function not as a plugin.
<zequence> True
<Len-nb> You can't start a plugin, it is only used inside of another app
<Len-nb> That is why the original hexter source does not have a desktop file
<zequence> Some categories are really good, like sequencer, but some applications I'd rather have grouped under a category named DAW, or digital audio workstation
<zequence> qtractor has sequencer ability, but it's not a mere sequencer
<zequence> So, for qtractor, or Ardour3 (which now could also be tagged with sequencer) I'd rather list them as DAWs
<zequence> In any way, these are categories that already exist, and are well established, so it makes sense adding them
<zequence> Len-nb: There's a difference between plugin and effect too
<zequence> A plugin could be either an effect, or an instrument
<Len-nb> Yes.
<Len-nb> ardour uses recorder
<Len-nb> If they are consistent, it is at least usable
<zequence> recorder is fine to me, but not the first word you'd use to describe it though
<Len-nb> No but the standard list has it
<zequence> It's more like a correct term, which defines one of its features
<zequence> I'd use it for anything that has that capacity, but maybe not add a menu item for it
<Len-nb> Back when a2 was started it wasn't a sequencer
<Len-nb> Is in a3
<zequence> That's why I said Ardour3
<Len-nb> What I mean is I don't know if they have changed the category
<zequence> I would say, added a category to existing ones
<zequence> Or you mean in the desktop file?
<zequence> I haven't looked at them yet
<Len-nb> Yes.
<zequence> I don't really care what they are now. They are probably all wrong anyway :P
<Len-nb> I haven't looked yet.
<zequence> I don't think anyone has put that much focus on this, at least not on a all encompassive level
<zequence> Really perfect for us to do that, from where we are sitting
<len-1304> Perhpas we should talk with some of the other audio distros.
<len-1304> I'm thinking arch and the RH one at least
<zequence> We could also just have a discussion on LAU
<len-1304> LAD?
<zequence> Or, whatever
<len-1304> I should subscribe
<zequence> for the big categories, I don't think there needs to be that much confusion
<len-1304> Aeolus: Categories=AudioVideo;Audio;
<zequence> Len-nb: btw, I think we could add the virtual keyboard to Midi Utilities
<len-1304> OK
<zequence> I'm going to relax for a bit. Getting late already. Going to study Debian maintenance all weekend
<len-1304> PHASEX: Categories=AudioVideo;Audio;X-MIDI;X-Synthesis;X-JACK;X-Digital_Processing;
<len-1304> theres a mouthful
<zequence> I forget, what are the X categories? Auxiliary, custom?
<zequence> They aren't freedesktop ones anyway
<len-1304> I don't know. they are not mentioned in freeedesktop.
<zequence> Digital processing is another good category, but also more technical. Not the kind you'd call a menu
<len-1304> Qsynth: Categories=Audio;AudioVideo;Midi;X-Alsa;X-Jack;Qt;
<len-1304> way too much info, I don't think these people think about what the desktop file will be used for.
<zequence> Qt is an actual category
<zequence> What do you mean by way too much info?
<len-1304> Ya, a good menu maker might not display it if qt libs are not there.
<len-1304> alsa and jack don't really help.
<zequence> Not for making a menu
<len-1304> synth would be nicer.
<zequence> But, remember, these are not just for our menu
<zequence> They are for anything desktop search related
<len-1304> I am trying to think of a menu situation where it would help.
<zequence> And, really, a dash is much more powerful, when it comes to this. Since you can have 10 tags on each desktop file, and that only makes it easier for you to find things
<zequence> I'd encourage you to not only think about our menu, but at what freedesktop is used for universally
<len-1304> Provided the user and the dev happen to have thought of the same term.
<zequence> Or, else, there's no point in pushing anything upstream
<zequence> Too many tags will never be a problem
<len-1304> Well an audio only app should not have AudioVideo
<zequence> The audiovideo category is for when you don't keep those two apart
<len-1304> There are some apps (I can't think of any) that are video only, but not many.
<zequence> Probably not very useful in modern menus
<len-1304> Any menu can look for audio or video.
<zequence> It's not really saying this application does both. It's saying this application is either one of those
<len-1304> Ok, but then why both audio and audiovideo?
<zequence> i don't know, but it says this "Desktop entry must include AudioVideo as well"
<zequence> For both audio and video
<zequence> http://standards.freedesktop.org/menu-spec/latest/apa.html
<zequence> I think some menus did not have those separate
<zequence> I don't really know/remember
<len-1304> probably dates back to the original gnome/kde menu
<zequence> Len-nb: Have to say, the menu is starting to feel very mature now
<zequence> Also with the new icons and everything
<len-1304> Ya, but it is, as you say, too customized
<zequence> Len-nb: I added this page, which you can find in the tab-menu under the header part of each page https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/Workflows
<zequence> Workflows, that is
<zequence> And in it, I put the freedesktop categories
<len-1304> how about pluginContainer.
<zequence> I think plugins is still a valid category, even if it would never be used in a menu
<zequence> plugincontainer is not a word you would use
<zequence> It's not something people are using right now
<len-1304> I am thinking jackrack etc
<zequence> plugin host
<zequence> That's the correct term
<len-1304> Ok
<len-1304> It would be nice to be able to differentiate between SW meant for creation and SW for content playback
<len-1304> I was thinking proaudio before that, but that doesn't make sense
<zequence> I think "media player" might be a correct word for apps like VLC, totem, etc
<len-1304> Ya.
<len-1304> There is one called just "player"
<len-1304> With things like ardour and qtracktor the category Development could be useful.
<zequence> development?
<len-1304> It could break some simple menu setups though
<len-1304> creating music is development.
<zequence> I only couple that with software development
<zequence> I've never heard anyone say that, tbh
<len-1304> It _would_ be confusing
<zequence> I think common terms are the best. Technical terms are best used as auxiliary categories for finer searches (even if not used in menus). 
<zequence> Sometimes they are one and the same
<zequence> When I say technical, I mean like "digital processing" compared to "plugin"
<zequence> or "effect", I mean
<len-1304> nothing here to help with hexter though.
<zequence> not pluging
<zequence> Len-nb: Add the ones that apply for now. Then, let's complete the list of things we'd like to push upstream. 
<zequence> If we get a change upstream, we add those categories to desktop files
<zequence> As for the menu, it all depends on what is practical. Makes no sense to have one menu per app, so that fine categorization is not needed. I'd like a DAW category, but that may also not be needed
<zequence> Actually, it might make sense to have a "jack tools" or "jack control" category/menu
<len-1304> I don't want to see DAWs in a sub menu really.
<zequence> But, that might not work as a standard
<zequence> DAW is definitely a category that would be useful in desktop files, while maybe not in the menu
<len-1304> It would be good to get Mixer in all the Mixers.
<len-1304> I will just fix the icon in hexter for now. I will leave the categories alone.
<len-1304> There are sure a lot of game subcategories.
<zequence> Right now, two items that seem misplaced IMO are virtual keyboard, and meterbridge. Also Jamin, which is more of an effect
<len-1304> kb can move
<zequence> The rest in that section are DAWs, sequencers, that kind of apps
<zequence> And we have a nice jack control section also
<zequence> I'd rename "Sound Generators" to "Instruments"
<zequence> Or "Software Instruments", which is more correct
<len-1304> meter bridge... I don't know where unless we make a jack utils submenu.
<len-1304> I agree.
<len-1304> Are we trying to do this before 13.04? or after?
<zequence> No, from now on the only thing we change for 13.04 is artwork
<len-1304> So we should not really touch settings till after release.
<len-1304> so we can change only artwork.
<zequence> If we find bugs, it might be a lot of work to get them fixed, and having this amount of time before final release is actually a pretty good thing for us
<zequence> No, we should not touch the seeds
<zequence> One could make a new branch though
<zequence> I'm working a bit on my PA problems, which I still don't know what they are about. Could be alsa drivers, who knows. This audio device i've never seen anywhere else
<len-1304> the menu is in settings. It is just one file though. I can play with it where ever. I need to do the same with the settings manager.
<zequence> We should do upgrade testing
<zequence> I might be a little bias, but I feel pretty comfortable with the wallpaper I did
<zequence> Feels very natural
<len-1304> It doesn't get in the way.
<zequence> It's a bit darker than I originally planned
<zequence> It's good that it's discrete
<zequence> I really like the one with Chinese patterns, but I don't feel ok with having it as default
<len-1304> but I am not really visual. We need an art department :)
<zequence> Yeah
<zequence> Ok, I better wander off here. Will be studying Debian all weekend. Looking forward to it. Talk to you later
<len-1304> In someways, a workflow database would be nice too.
<len-1304> K bye now.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2013-03-15
<smartboyhw> Hello
<smartboyhw> !ops
<ubottu> Help! Channel emergency! (ONLY use this trigger in emergencies) - elky, Madpilot, tritium, Nalioth, tonyyarusso, PriceChild, Amaranth, jrib, Myrtti, mneptok, Pici,  jpds,  gnomefreak, bazhang,  Flannel, ikonia, maco, h00k, IdleOne, bkerensa, nhandler, Jordan_U, DJones or k1l!
<smartboyhw> Uh oh
<smartboyhw> I thought it was only supposed to cal the ops in this channel ONLY
<smartboyhw> I wanted to update the topic
<smartboyhw> holstein, ping
<Lump|AFK> oopsie
<smartboyhw> Lump|AFK, ?
<Lump|AFK> heya
<Lump|AFK> i guess it wasn't a big disaster eh smartboyhw 
<smartboyhw> Oh
<Lump|AFK> don't sweat it i would guess
<Lump|AFK> and for what it is worth and if it makes you feel better, I banned all of aol.com by mistake once
<Lump|AFK> heh
<Lump|AFK> have a great day all, i am now with my nick
<smartboyhw> zequence, any time for doing some upgrade testing?
 * smartboyhw does not
<zequence> smartboyhw: I will do some before the final beta
<smartboyhw> zequence, :)
<smartboyhw> zequence, you can't just give credit to me in the annoucement anyway, credit EVERYBODY :P
<zequence> smartboyhw: It was you who wrote the initial announcement, so just wanted to mention that.
<smartboyhw> zequence, next time mention everybody:)
<smartboyhw> zequence, I do hope Scott turns up today
<zequence> smartboyhw: I think next time you do the announcement, and no need to give anyone credit
<smartboyhw> zequence, ...................
 * smartboyhw is surprised
<smartboyhw> zequence, anyway we have a problem: The people involved mainly in Ubuntu Studio now aren't exactly the channel ops
<zequence> You are doing good work on handling our releases, so it would only be logical for you to do the announcements too
<smartboyhw> zequence, BTW for Beta 2 I wouldn't make the annoucement (1st April) since I'm in Hangzhou in China. I will be back on Tuesday though
<smartboyhw> So you wouldn't miss me for release:P
<smartboyhw> EASTER HOLIDAYS!
<zequence> ok
<smartboyhw> Tuesday = 2nd April
<smartboyhw> Final beta is 4th April
<smartboyhw> astraljava, are you available?
<zequence> Hangzhou, isn't that the city close to Shanghai where there's a manmade lake?
<smartboyhw> zequence, yep. Xihu
<zequence> I spent a few days there in 2002
<smartboyhw> West lake
<smartboyhw> zequence, XD
<smartboyhw> Good
<zequence> Nice city
<smartboyhw> zequence, also it seems the posts in Ubuntu Studio doesn't get to Planet Ubuntu...
<zequence> I don't want them to
<smartboyhw> zequence, why?
<smartboyhw> Other flavours do that (for annoucements)
<Lump|AFK> I am going to see how the 64 bit build works on my eee 1000
<smartboyhw> Lump|AFK, +1
<Lump|AFK> if you guys want to tell me where to get the beta i will go with that iso
<smartboyhw> Lump|AFK, http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntustudio/releases/13.04/beta-1.
<zequence> smartboyhw: Planet Ubuntu is more for blogs, and stuff. I find it to be a very internal source of info - mostly Ubuntu folk read it
<zequence> So, making announcements there is sort of pointless IMO
<smartboyhw> zequence, well OK then:)
<zequence> Unless it's something special
<Lump|AFK> i will DL it and try it when i get back from the BMV
<smartboyhw> zequence, so how to deal with the IRC ops problem?
<Lump|AFK> for now I /must/ get in symc with my nick
<Lump|AFK> i will be on the air tonight and likely back in here crying about destroying a netbook
<smartboyhw> LOL
<Lump|AFK> if any of you want on my show stream tonight to talk studio let me know and have teamspeak3 installed
<Lump|AFK> ttyl
<smartboyhw> Lump|AFK, what show stream!?
<Lump|AFK> i am the owner and unboss of indienation.fm an online indie music station
<Lump|AFK> we also do tech net news
<Lump|AFK> the tech director and i are both ubuntu addicts
<smartboyhw> Lump|AFK, :)
<Lump|AFK> although recently i have begun to like mint for my older machines
<Lump|AFK> i am dling the iso to my network drive as i type
<Lump|AFK> i use studio, jackrack, meterbridge and idjc for my live stream wf
<Lump|AFK> i hijack the icecast server and it relays
<Lump|AFK> i am on from 8 PM to 2 AM EST on Fridays
<astraljava> smartboyhw: For what? Quite sporadically, if you meant now.
<smartboyhw> astraljava, for updating the topic to include the beta 1 links
<astraljava> Ahh... yes, sure.
<astraljava> Do you want something to get rid off from the current one?
<smartboyhw> astraljava, no. Just add "Ubuntu Studio 13.04 Beta 1 Released http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntustudio/releases/13.04/beta-1"
<astraljava> Ok.
<smartboyhw> astraljava, only in this channel:)
* astraljava changed the topic of #ubuntustudio-devel to: Ubuntu Studio Development Channel | https://code.launchpad.net/ubuntustudio | Ubuntu Studio 12.04.02 LTS is released: ISO- http://goo.gl/FEAxP Notes-http://goo.gl/29QaS | Ubuntu Studio 12.10 is released http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntustudio/releases/12.10/release/ | Ubuntu Studio 13.04 Beta 1 Released http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntustudio/releases/13.04/beta-1
<astraljava> Right, I doubt I have privileges much elsewhere.
<smartboyhw> YEAH
<astraljava> I ran out of time for testing it before, but downloaded the image and will install in Parallels over the weekend.
<smartboyhw> astraljava, :)
<astraljava> Good job guys! Glad to see the train chugging along nicely. :)
<smartboyhw> astraljava, :)
<smartboyhw> I do hope that Scott wasn't so busy these days
<smartboyhw> He couldn't even get on IRC
<astraljava> Yeah, "real" life's a b*... pain.
<smartboyhw> yeah
<zequence> This isn't real life? i might need to pinch myself
<astraljava> I have a gazillion things to do, but never get even started.
<smartboyhw> astraljava, so how are you these days?
<smartboyhw> zequence, LOL
<astraljava> zequence: Yeah, I cringe whenever I type it. But it's an opinion shared by the majority, so...
<zequence> I guess we could add a PlanetUbuntu category for our site postings
<smartboyhw> zequence, OK I will do that:)
<zequence> What I would do is whenever we post something that isn't obvious to the Ubuntu community, like new feature additions, interviews with people using Ubuntu Studio, that kind of thing, then we add the PlanetUbuntu category
<smartboyhw> zequence, OK.
<smartboyhw> So I should set it up now first I think
<zequence> Final release deserves a post I think
<smartboyhw> zequence, +1
 * smartboyhw has added the category
<astraljava> smartboyhw: Good, but very busy. And how might you be?
<smartboyhw> zequence, done:)
<smartboyhw> astraljava, good
<smartboyhw> zequence, most of our blueprints are targetted at beta 2
<smartboyhw> we are absolutely in good progress (except the artworks and half of the work items are actually POSTPONED:P)
<zequence> We're basically done for this cycle
<zequence> I'm waiting until Monday before touching the last blueprints
<zequence> If Scott doesn't appear until then, I edit those too
<zequence> Or, the last one
<smartboyhw> OK
<smartboyhw> zequence, so probably mark the blueprints as DONE or whatsoever?
<zequence> I don't know yet. I'll wait until Monday to look through them
<smartboyhw> zequence, well if all of them are POSTPONED or DONE we should
<zequence> As I said, I'll wait until Monday, and then I'll look through them
<zequence> There's no hurry
<smartboyhw> zequence, OK
<smartboyhw> So what we are basically doing now is get the artwork in and do testing:P
<smartboyhw> and that's 13.04!!!
<zequence> I find that it's a good idea to keep doing this in the future. To be fully done by Beta 1, and if we find bugs, we have a long time to fix them before final release
<zequence> I'm having a PA bug, for instance
<astraljava> zequence: Reported?
<zequence> astraljava: I'm still working on finding the cause
<zequence> I'll put some time on it this weekend
 * smartboyhw +1s
 * smartboyhw -1s the bug
<zequence> might be a good idea to do some upgrade testing too, soonish
<astraljava> zequence: Ok, I'll see if I hit it after installation, let's talk if we're online at the same time.
 * astraljava is travelling now
<zequence> astraljava: Happy travelling
<smartboyhw> astraljava, happy trip!
<holstein> smartboyhw: pong
<smartboyhw> holstein, nothing now :P
<holstein> :)
<smartboyhw> zequence, should we add some "Release" content to our wiki?
<smartboyhw> I mean actually DOING releases
 * micahg seems to keep missing smartboyhw....
<len-1304> zequence, there is a new pa-jack bridge package out today.
<len-1304> Whoever removed, studio from the upgrade test... Thank you.
<len-1304> oops, except its back in the dailies.
<len-1304> There is also new x and video drivers. Krita is new again too.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2013-03-16
<smartboyhw> micahg, PING
<smartboyhw> Are you missing me?:P
<holstein> Len-nb: ping
<Len-nb> holstein, pong
<Len-nb> You've prolly gone asleep :)
<holstein> Len-nb: sorry.. it was a support question in #ubuntu that i thought you would know about.. all it well :)
<Len-nb> No prob
<Len-nb> zequence, if I make a patch and that includes changing two files and adding a binary.... should I expect the binary entire contents to end up in the diff?
<Len-nb> zequence, holstein, (anyone else?) what is the "normal" way to use JAMin?
<Len-nb> Is it normally called as a standalone app or a plugin (from inside ardour for example)
<Len-nb> I'm thinking I agree with you, zequence, that it could be in effects.
 * Len-nb is making a list of changes for post 13.05
 * Len-nb is not sure if the next release would be 13.10 or 14.04
<Len-nb> Lumpy,  for your workflow, where in the menu should the apps you use be.
<Len-nb> I am thinking idjc should be in both network and audio production as it can be used standalone with  audio out for dj work.
<Len-nb> I do not think it makes sense to make a submenu just for streaming.
<Len-nb> though it is easy to create a custom menu in the panel if you want.
<zequence> Len-nb: Can't answer your question about the binary. Did you work it out?
<zequence> Len-nb: "Effect" is technically not used for things like compression and eq, which are considered to be dynamic processing, while things like flanger, chorus and reverb are technically correctly labelled as effects. That said, most people just call everything effects, which does any kind of audio processing
<zequence> Jamin is a collection of processing tools
<zequence> Thus, I'd categorize it under Effects
#ubuntustudio-devel 2013-03-17
<zequence> I'm going to start a Ubuntu Studio ppa where we have fixed packages that yet haven't been SRUd
<micahg> zequence: can I ask what you're trying to accomplish with the PPA?
<zequence> micahg: Give users the possibility to use packages that have been fixed but yet not been SRUd
<micahg> zequence: yes, but why are they not being SRUd (I'm wondering if there's some breakdown somewhere we can fix)
<zequence> micahg: The SRU process takes a bit of time
<zequence> months as it seems
<micahg> zequence: should take about 2 weeks if everything is ready from upload to get to -updates, 8-10 days if the SRU queue isn't backed up
<zequence> bug #956438
<ubottu> bug 956438 in jackd2 (Ubuntu Quantal) "qjackctl unable to stop jackd2" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/956438
<micahg> if you'd like people to test the fixes without -proposed, that's fine, but I'd like to see more stuff pushed through SRU if it's needed (I was thinking of joining the -sru team at some point, but stopped having time)
<zequence> I haven't prepared packages for 12.10 and 12.04 though
<micahg> there's nothing there indicating it's ready for SRU aside from the bug tasks
<micahg> right :)
<micahg> something like that can go into the sponsorship queue and you can ping a patch pilot in -devel if it
<zequence> But no one has informed me of anything not being right
<micahg> s not addressed in a timely fashion
<micahg> bug tasks means someone that wants to fix it, can, and they then submit it through the sponsorship process
<micahg> so, nothing wrong per se, just that you shouldn't be shocked that nothing has been done with it
<zequence> I pinged someone in -bugs
<zequence> That got the process started
<micahg> well, that'll get you bug tasks, not much more
<zequence> I was following the instructions written on the wiki page
<micahg> the SRU pagE?
<zequence> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
<micahg> you're at step 5.2 :)
<zequence> Well, I wasn't clear on the the details of the process
<zequence> I'll have a go tomorrow
<micahg> ok, I'm here to help if I can
<zequence> micahg: thanks
<holstein> Len-nb: i use jamin on the way out of ardour.. as an insert
<holstein> Len-nb: sometimes, i use it sandalone on the way out of other things
<Len-nb> holstein, where would it make the most sense to have it in the menu?
<Len-nb> Would it be hard to find in an effects sub menu?
<holstein> Len-nb: i think that would be fine
<holstein> i always add a flag anyways. so it doesnt auto connect to outputs
<Len-nb> Should we do that to more of the standalone stuff?
<Len-nb> We can request changes to the desktop files upstream holstein 
<Len-nb> I would thnk it doesn't make sense for JAMin to auto connect anyway.
<holstein> depends
<Len-nb> It doesn't make sense to auto connect for one use out of four
<zequence> Len-nb: I think applications should all have a setting for disabling auto connect. For one thing, not everyone wants apps to connect to 1-2
<zequence> and there are ways to make custom auto connects
<zequence> Probably people want auto connect by default, but have the ability to disable it
<zequence> ..for a lot of apps, not all
<Len-nb> I agree
<Len-nb> I use inputs 9-10 ... auto connecting to 1-2 is not very useful
<Len-nb> zequence, from what I have heard from jack devs, auto connect is considered "rude" (not their words, but my paraphrase)
<Len-nb> zequence, is there any way of renaming jack ports? not just in qjackctl, but so that all apps see the new names.
<Len-nb> zequence, re backdrops: While we have asked for backdrop submissions, we have not given any guidance.
<Len-nb> I would suggest a paragraph or two that gives the backdrop artist an idea of what we are looking for.
<zequence> Len-nb: This time around, I don't think we can get much further on the artwork. And I will make a point about this tomorrow
<Len-nb> The idea of getting out of the way and not distracting while looking good.
<Len-nb> I would suggest just including anything properly licensed to look
<zequence> For the next release, we need to have rules for this. Because of the shot time period, I felt putting up a unorganized wallpaper submission thing would be a bad idea on anything else than our -devel mail lsit
<zequence> short*
<Len-nb> Ya.
<Len-nb> I have started working on a list for 13.04+1
<Len-nb> I will post it later today... or should I wait?
<zequence> Let's wait until this release is out
<Len-nb> I think our stuff for 13.04 is done though
<Len-nb> Soome of it is just defining work flows.
<Len-nb> Some is ongoing.
<zequence> I would still rather wait at least for a while, and then start a periof of organized planning, which we also announce
<Len-nb> good. I will work on it in private then.
<Len-nb> The binary I was referring to yesterday was an image.
<Len-nb> the diff seems to have subtracted one image line by line and then added the other the same way.
<Len-nb> Maybe that is how it works.
<zequence> The diff is only text, AFAIK, so probably not helpful when binaries are involved
<zequence> Better to create a bzr branch
<Len-nb> Do they use those in debian?
<zequence> No, probably mostly git
<zequence> In which case, you could create a tar ball, but better ask the Debian guys
<Len-nb> Neither the debian or the ubuntu package have a bzr branch
<Len-nb> This is for hexter, it looks like they have just taken the original src and added a debian directory
<zequence> That's usually how it works
<zequence> debian/rules has instructions for some things, including how to build it
<zequence> the debian dir really has all of the package info in it
<Len-nb> How do I know who to talk to? There is a list , does Alessio Treglia sound right? 
<zequence> pkg-multimedia is a good list
<zequence> There's also a irc channel, but it's not on freenode
<zequence> OFTC
<Len-nb> I made a patch but don't know how to submit.
<zequence> channel #debian-multimedia
<Len-nb> I try those things
<zequence> Len-nb: usually when you get the source to a package, using "apt-get source", you can see where the git tree for the package is
<zequence> In the case of hexter git://anonscm.debian.org/pkg-multimedia/hexter.git
<zequence> Becoming a debian multimedia member gives you upload rights
<zequence> Not the same as getting Debian upload rights
<zequence> Or, I should say, you get the right to push code
<zequence> I think the one most important thing to learn, in order to be really helpful, is probably learning about Debian packagin, the policy and the tools
<zequence> Len-nb: Another source for info is http://packages.debian.org/source/sid/hexter
<zequence> You can find the adress to the git tree at the bottom
<zequence> Well, learning git might be a good idea too :)
<Len-nb> Ya it would.. there are some apps that use it for backup and versioning.
<Len-nb> NAMA, some people use it for ardour too
<Len-nb> I did already DL the debian hexter src packages.
<Len-nb> That is what i was using to diff against
<zequence> git is very useful to make diffs too
<zequence> But, not sure if you can make a usable binary diff. Should be possible. I just don't know how
<zequence> anyways, better ask the MM team
#ubuntustudio-devel 2014-03-11
<ttoine> hello
#ubuntustudio-devel 2014-03-12
<TheDrums> Even though it's a bit Xubuntu focused, would UbuntuStudio benefit from seeding xubuntu-docs?
<zequence> TheDrums: I suppose so. 
<zequence> There are a couple of things I'd like to change in our seeds yet
<TheDrums> Well, it'd be optional, since it does have that header, but still might be handy.  Not sure the typical user though.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2014-03-13
<OvenWerk1> zequence: The set of apps for audio looks good (at a glance) The idea of the PD set/meta is reasonable too. I could see that being used alone in some applications. Photography has an appliaction added as well BTW.
<knome> what's the status with the LTS proposal for studio?
<OvenWerk1> zequence: I see someone is advocating adding the RT kernel again. I am not sure if that is good or not. The pro is that lots of people want it and feel they need it. The con is that it varies much more widely from the vanilla.
<OvenWerk1> I think the latest is three years
<OvenWerk1> For LTS. I have not been too active this cycle.
<OvenWerk1> knome ^^^
<knome> ah, right.
<OvenWerk1> zequence: the other con for the RT kernel is that people expect it to be a silver bullet to give them low latency operation. This is not true and in fact newer MB seem to have more trouble
<OvenWerk1> zequence: I should qualify that... I think the tweeks in new MB are different from older ones and I also think the kernel could do more for low latency operation. For example, the kernel detects hyperthreading at boot and if it is turned on or not, but provides no method of turning it off or defeating it. Yet defeating HT will make the difference from being able to do 5ms latency to sub ms latency. Reserving irqs for HW is another area the kernel
<OvenWerk1> The kernel will assign irqs for HW that the BIOS has not already assigned and does do a better job than BIOS in many cases. It would be nice if it could reassign ones that are badly done.
<OvenWerk1> Modern MB generally have a minimum of 48 irq channels and many have 96 and yet there still seems to be a clump of HW using irq 16  :P  Does windows need this? Does DOS?
<OvenWerk1> I guess if I had a kernel wish list  :)  it would include a config file (instead or as well as command line) and an irq table.
<OvenWerk1> messing around with a command line at boot or in grub is more painful than it needs to be.
<zequence> OvenWerk1: I'm fine with adding linux-rt as a possibility for the hard core audio people, if someone is willing to package one
<zequence> The kernel doesn't need to be packaged for Ubuntu Studio, but we can decide to make use of it
<OvenWerk1> zequence: I agree we should not maintain it.
<zequence> Well, it's up to whoever wants to. I might do it later on, but not now
<OvenWerk1> It should be trivial to change grub to put RT first instead of lowlatency
<zequence> OvenWerk1: I think that GRUB code is not there anymore
<zequence> You remember, the UEFI bug?
<OvenWerk1> That is different
<zequence> Well, I haven't checked. Still, I think it would be good if you could check out a generic solution
<OvenWerk1> They are two different things
<zequence> Ah, right
<zequence> It was about changing the name of the OS
<OvenWerk1> Yes
<zequence> I think there was some effort done to make that possible
<zequence> possibly pushed upstream already
<OvenWerk1> When I have time/energy I will look at changing it back. I will have to see if my wifes BIOS will make testing possible for me.
<zequence> Alright
<OvenWerk1> In the mean time, having the lowlatency/RT label takes a lot of confusion out of things
#ubuntustudio-devel 2014-03-15
<len1404> Just testing the beta...
<len1404> Boots just fine. Every thing seems to work live
<len1404> Installer is working so far. Slides are getting old :)
<len1404> I presume a new background is coming soon.
<len1404> Jack works, pulse works even better than before. I don't get as good latency at least live (though that should make no difference).
<len1404> My latency degradation is probably because of the new video card though, rather than the new kernel/whatever else.
<zequence> len1404: I would recommend trying the cyclic test which is apart of rt-tests package to see about latency
<zequence> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/CyclicTest
<zequence> No need to build it. Just install the package rt-tests
<len1404> I will do that on the install.
<zequence> linux-lowlatency is without threadirqs by default in that release
<zequence> because of a serious bug, which is fixed now
<zequence> If you update the system, you should get a kernel that has it enabled again (if it's out yet, but I think so)
<len1404> We still have X?
<zequence> Shouldn't affect latency much, but who knows
<zequence> Sure
<zequence> mir is a bit late in the making still, I believe. And X is not going anywhere soon
<len1404> /usr/bin/X -core :0 -seat seat0 -auth 
<len1404> Ya we have x
<zequence> len1404: If you like, test our ubuntustudio-live plugin.
<len1404> I up graded my very old video card to a much newer one. I have not really done any audio work since. So I will boot one of the other partitions later and see if latency has been affected there too.
<len1404> Did I have to do that before I started installing?
<zequence> len1404: before installing onto disk, or wherever, install the ubuntustudio-live package from ppa:ubuntustudio-dev/devel. Then, do the install using ubiquity
<len1404> Right I thought so.
<zequence> you might also want to install ubuntustudio-meta, as it is not updated yet, but that might be impossible because of memory usage
<len1404> I will do the normal install first (seeing as it is halfway through) and then a second install
<zequence> len1404: Oh, you'll also want to remove ubuntustudio-live-settings
<zequence> as ubuntustudio-live replaces that
<len1404> It should be ok without because the seeds will have installed everything... 
<len1404> Or I should say the install should not use a lto of memory
<len1404> *lot
<len1404> Because everything is already installed but for the  meta package itself
<zequence> len1404: btw, I've forgotten to check the status of our menu for a while
<zequence> len1404: There was a problem with too large icons
<len1404> Looks correct
<len1404> The only problem I see is a lot of missing icons
<zequence> could be the same problem
<len1404> That may be a change in xfce it may no longer be looking at the pixmaps dir
<zequence> that may be correct, yes
<zequence> or, it would display them in original size
<zequence> xubuntu devs I hear make their own png images for the apps they use
<len1404> The same icons seem to show up fine when displayed by a right click on empty screen
<len1404> And they are the right size too
<len1404> My install has mostly finished, it is just downloading any changed packages
<len1404> (or non-open)
<len1404> I don't have two monitors here... I should grab the big old ugly one I guess.
<len1404> I can't tell if we have the new xfce display setup.
<len1404> Ack I have practice...see you later
#ubuntustudio-devel 2014-03-16
<OvenWerk1> zenity seems to think it should only show two lines in a list any more.
<OvenWerk1> It used to show as many as would fit in the box size.
<cub> zequence, are you planning to do the changes to the ubiquity-slideshow or if anyone else, like madeinkobaia, is planning to fix it?
<cub> I got take a shot at it otherwise.
<cub> s/got/could
<cub> hmm or can I..?
<elfy> cub: I'd guess so ... I managed with ours :)
<cub> first glance it seems it's a joint package for all distros?
<elfy> nah 
<elfy> you just go to /ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu/slideshows/ubuntustudio/
<elfy> and do your changes in there - that's just for studio
<cub> cool
 * elfy finds it strange to be explaining this stuff - and knome would be laughing :)
<elfy> I hate bzr and fiddling with things like this ... 
<cub> hehe
<cub> I'm just learning so every step takes a long time for me
<elfy> cub: tell me about it - you should have seen me 6 months when I was doing all the testcase stuff - I went bald pulling it all out :D
<cub> haha nice, that's what I'm planning to do after the LTS release
<elfy> I've got your stuff on my list too - so I will help
<elfy> I did try to make a start but got bogged down in other things 
<cub> great, hopefully it will be easier then
<elfy> yep - and I should be able to help with  getting your testsuites set up
<cub> right, I should have some projects to open in the applications shown.
<cub> elfy, I read in an instruction for the ubiquity that screenshots should be 215px x 130px, but the ones used in Ubuntu Studio are 450 wide and different heights
<cub> do you know if there's still a rule on sizes?
<elfy> I'd not know I'm afraid 
<cub> the xubuntu slides have different sizes of images as well, so I'm going with what we used before
<elfy> pretty sure ours are not that size - one is 400x290
<elfy> another 430x290
<elfy> bbl
<zequence> cub: you're welcome to do it. But, if it's not done by tomorrow, I'll probably do it myself
<zequence> cub: I think how it's done is pretty self explanatory as far as making the changes. Once you're done, you need to make a merge request, and preferably a bug report to go with it
<knome> zequence: feel free to set me as the reviewer for the slideshow merges, and i'll get it done
<zequence> exit
#ubuntustudio-devel 2016-03-14
<luisbg> knome: I need to know what the issue is before I contact the maintainer (steve dodier)
<luisbg> I don't have much time to follow Ubuntu Studio anymore so I really don't know what is the issue with xfce4-volumed
<sakrecoer> zequence & kryten : i can't stress enough how much i appreciate you learning me this, but can we discuss it here? I don't think what you are writing to me is contradictious in anyway, but i struggle handling both inputs at the same time.
<sakrecoer> i renamed the branch for MR to ubuntustudio.xenial.set
<sakrecoer> as far as i understand what you wrote, zequence, this is so that it would be easier the merge them localy, is that right?
<sakrecoer> effectively avoiding confusion between my branch (ubuntustudio.xenial.set) and the offical (ubuntustudio.xenial)
<sakrecoer> in order to follow the first part of your step-instructions, i think i will rather give it the first name i pushed it with.
<sakrecoer> your= zequence 
<zequence> sakrecoer: Yes, exactly
<zequence> The names are just for the actual folders on your computer. Nothing to do with the names in launchpad.
<zequence> Makes sense to use he original name for the official branch, and modified names for any non-official branches, such as user owned branches.
<knome> zequence, you still have my artwork (logo update) MR pending.
<zequence> knome: Yes, I haven't got to reviewing that myself. Since from what I understand the dimensions have changed, I felt it requires some processing. Didn't want to do a quick decision there.
<zequence> Again, would be good to have an art lead taking that role. I will get to that fairly soon I think, though
<knome> dimensions?
<knome> it's an svg
<knome> :P
<knome> if you want, i can do an overlay of the old/new style if you like, but it's really essentially the same logo
<knome> it's just redone in the technical sense that it's now cleaner in terms of symmetricity etc.
<zequence> knome: Maybe I misunderstood, but my impression was that the lines were somewhat thicker?
<knome> not in any significant way
<knome> i can do the overlay for you
<knome> let me see if i have the old logo lying around ...
<knome> zequence, http://temp.knome.fi/ubuntustudio/us-logo-update.png
<knome> zequence, green is new, red is old
<knome> so as you can see, it's *slightly* wider, but most importantly, the form is completely symmetric now and all angles are snapped to the closest 45Â°
<knome> obviously if you think the line wight is a problem, the new logo source allows changing that very easily
<zequence> knome: Thanks for that. It's pretty obvious how malformed the old one is. But, the effect of straightening that out does change the feeling of the full thing. And, that's ok if that is what one wants, but to get the original feeling one might need to adjust a few things.
<knome> zequence, the MP i posted has the source file
<knome> zequence, that is technically 6 inkscape paths, so you can easily change their stroke width and angles if you want to exactly match the old logo, but fix the irregularities in the symmetry
<zequence> knome: Yes. I might want to experiment with that just a bit. Since, the current MP is more of a replacement than a fix, in a way. And that makes it somewhat a bigger issue. I promise to take a closer look within a week or so.
<knome> well, i'm not in a hurry with it
<knome> i thought you wanted to get the new logo in use for 16.04
<knome> especially since UIF has gone already
<zequence> Yeah, we're late, as so often before. But, there's still plenty of time to get those details fixed. 
<zequence> Currently, I'm mostly focused on -controls. That's my main bit for the final beta, and whatever fixes we still might need
<zequence> Then comes artwork, and then I'll be done :)
<zequence> Well, the home page too, of course
<knome> sure
<knome> it's your (plural) ship, not mine
<zequence> Luckily, most of our changes will be specific to our flavor
<sakrecoer> to sound like a broken record: i think knome s logo is perfection incarnated. :)
<sakrecoer> but i guess its just an opinion, althought, if i may specify, it's an educated: after all i do have master degree in design, :p
<knome> well, i don't, so go figure ;)
<zequence> Since it is a change, and not only a small fix, it touches on tradition, so that is my main concern
<knome> i would consider it a facelift, not really a "change"
<zequence> I'm currently updating the meta, by the way
<knome> but again, that's ultimately your decision
<zequence> Since the dimensions are changed, it is a change
 * knome shrugs
<knome> you have the source file, have fun with it
<sakrecoer> i understand, zequence :)
<zequence> sakrecoer: Aside from renaming stuff in debian/control and a file named update.cfg in the ubuntustudio-meta, I'm also taking the opportunity to remove a couple of transitional packages that we don't need anymore: ubuntustudio-generation and ubuntustudio-recording
<sakrecoer> but personaly, i wish the person who introduced the pataoÃ¯dal version we have now would have had the same respect for the logo that you have, zequence 
<zequence> I should have removed them after trusty, already
<sakrecoer> *patatoÃ¯dal.. =shaped like a potato :D
<sakrecoer> ok, nice, i was hopeing i'd get to do it to learn, but i don't complain. :)
<sakrecoer> ah sorry i missread you
<sakrecoer> goodgood 
<zequence> sakrecoer: Only the uploader works on the meta usually, but in cases where you need a sponsor who is not a studio dev, you might want to do some changes yourself
<zequence> Well, in this case, when I'm doing something else than just updating the dependencies
<zequence> In this case I'm reorganizing some files manually, which is not the normal case
<zequence> I mean, in this case, you would want to make the changes yourself, and then give the source to a sponsor
<zequence> But, the other 19 times you just let the sponsor update the meta, since that mostly involves running a script supplied with the meta source
<zequence> Hope I'm being somewhat clear
<zequence> To return to the case with the logo, changing dimensions is a pretty big deal, at least if it is visible to the naked eye. And, that just takes some consideration, cause then you're messing with something pretty fundamental to the distro.
<zequence> I don't want to make a decision there that is not well grounded
<sakrecoer> yes, well, as usual its easier to understand by seeing. :) 19/20 when i feel you are unclear, it is in fact my understanding that is cluttered..
<sakrecoer> re:logo. sure. but the way i see it, its not changed in proportions.
<sakrecoer> but nevermind my opinion. at least, if you still see your reflexions about it fit in schedule :)
<zequence> My first impression was that it was clearly different. That's enough for me to not just let things pass without at least momentarily thinking about what else one could do
<zequence> Putting kryten's proposed changes to the update.cfg file, includeing the changed urls for seeds (bzr+ssh, instead of http)
<sakrecoer> well, from pataoÃ¯dal to perfect is quite big change tho, we approach it from to different angles. but i respect what you invoke and i will not bother you with my opinion on it again :)
<zequence> I'll also upload -default-settings today
<sakrecoer> except maybe this: i think the distorted version was distorted on purpose to make it work at very small size.
<sakrecoer> but its just me guessing .
<zequence> sakrecoer: So, you think the new version does not work as well on small sizes?
<sakrecoer> i think it does, thats why its perfect
<zequence> ok
<sakrecoer> my attempt at correcting the logo did *not* work in supersmall
<sakrecoer> anyways, i respect you attention to detail. and i'm sure it will be perfect what ever the outcome of your final decision/edit
<zequence> It's not that I'm against change in itself. I'd rather not even take a stand on that, and just go with what we already have. This sort of cleans something up, but also complicates it a little
<zequence> I wouldn't have minded a total new look, but perhaps in the future?
<knome> complicates?
<zequence> For reasons already explained, yes
<knome> okay... :)
<zequence> sakrecoer: Your change in -default-settings is already built, but may not be available in the repos yet, if you do an upgrade
<zequence> You got your first point on the -default-settings project page https://launchpad.net/ubuntustudio-default-settings
<sakrecoer> \o/
<zequence> sakrecoer: Actually, we have now created a new package by renaming ubuntustudio-font-meta, which means archive admins need to decide whether to accept that
<zequence> We don't actually control that
<zequence> ubuntustudio-font-meta will still be around, but as a transitional package. It can be removed during next cycle
<zequence> Transitional packages should only be removed after a LTS has been released, since they need to work between LTS to LTS upgrades
<zequence> So, let's see what the archive admins think of this
 * sakrecoer crosdingfingers touching wooden head
<zequence> It's not so trivial usually, but since it's just a meta package..
<zequence> After reading up on the procedure, it seems I do not need to do anything further about the added package.
<zequence> But, I did have to create bugs for removing the binary packages ubuntustudio-recording and ubuntustudio-generation
<zequence> Bug 1557217
<ubottu> bug 1557217 in ubuntustudio-meta (Ubuntu) "remove obsolete transitional package ubuntustudio-generation from xenial" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1557217
<zequence> Bug 1557219
<ubottu> bug 1557219 in ubuntustudio-meta (Ubuntu) "remove obsolete transitional package ubuntustudio-recording from xenial" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1557219
<zequence> Aside from the bug reports, I had to subscribe the lp team ubuntu-archive to those bugs, so they are aware of them
<zequence> That, and other useful information about the archive can be found here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/PackageArchive
#ubuntustudio-devel 2016-03-15
<zequence> sakrecoer: Mostly adding this so you are aware of what else is happening, though I wouldn't focus too much on anything concerning uploads for a good while longer. It's just added complexity. For now, for you, I'd just focus on sources - what is in them, and how to adminster them.
<sakrecoer> cool thanks!
<sakrecoer> seems i managed to mess up that merge... http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntustudio-dev/ubuntu-seeds/ubuntustudio.xenial/revision/1475/font-meta
<sakrecoer> 2 lines of fonts-noto-hinted, and no line for fonts-noto-mono
<sakrecoer> kryten catched the error :)
<sakrecoer> seems the meta will have to be redone https://launchpadlibrarian.net/248143022/ubuntustudio-meta_0.148_0.149.diff.gz
<sakrecoer> very sorry about it.
<sakrecoer> zequence: if i look into it now, i will probably mess it up even more, i shall sleep on my new knowledge and come back tomorrow fit, clear and happy!
<zequence> sakrecoer: I missed that as well, but I did notice desktop seed has both, which it probably doesn't need to have. 
<cfhowlett> Ubuntu Designs Wanted:  http://mhall119.com/2016/03/help-make-gnome-software-beautiful/
<kryten> zequence: "...but I did notice desktop seed has both, which it probably doesn't need to have." - well, you did say that you wanted to include -mono as well, and you weren't specific to 'fonts', so I just went with it - also, it's small. :)
<kryten> !info fonts-noto-mono
<ubottu> Package fonts-noto-mono does not exist in wily
<kryten> DalekSec: You you fix that please? â
<kryten> !info fonts-noto-mono xenial
<ubottu> fonts-noto-mono (source: fonts-noto): "No Tofu" monospaced font family with large Unicode coverage. In component universe, is optional. Version 20160116-1 (xenial), package size 71 kB, installed size 143 kB
<kryten> * Can you
<DalekSec> Can't configure ubottu, nope.
<kryten> Ah, right.
<kryten> Hmm, who else then?
<DalekSec> Pici.
<kryten> (Requested in -irc - not that I have any authority here, but since it's supposed to be the default anyway...)
<sakrecoer> so, is a new commit the way to go to correct my error?
<sakrecoer> or is the best thing to roll back? i've neveer done it: rollback, so unless it would take much more time i figure it would be a good excersise..?
<sakrecoer> i'll be back arround 3pm UTC
<zequence> sakrecoer: It is possible to remove commits, but you only do that locally. Once it is up in the clouds, what you do is simply make a new commit
<zequence> To remove the latest commit, you can do 'bzr uncommit'
<zequence> It's useful to do, when working with the source at times
<zequence> Also, to revert to the latest commit 'bzr revert'
<zequence> And, always keep an eye on the status with 'bzr status' and go through your changes with 'bzr diff -r<n>' before pushing.
<zequence> But, as said, in this case, you just make a new change in the normal way
<zequence> sakrecoer: Seems the metas got throught, so that part is over with
<kryten> zequence: Sorry for my part in the duplication of -hinted in 'fonts', rather than adding -mono to it, as well - seem to have missed it on diff'ing the diffs. :|
<zequence> kryten: Not a big deal. And, I'm known to make mistakes like that all the time myself.
<kryten> :)
<kryten> That is to say, I just said something to that extent to sakrecoer as well :P - [13:31:43] <kryten>     And ftm, crap like overlooking that happens to me rather regularly too - no one is perfect, we can only try to - from my experience with that I only try to avoid it as much as possible, but like you just witnessed, still happens occasionally.
<zequence> The final responsibility is always with the uploader, though. The uploader needs to know what is being uploaded, all though not always exactly why - trusting the packager.
<zequence> You see small errors like this even within the kernel team now and again
<kryten> !info fonts-noto-mono
<ubottu> fonts-noto-mono (source: fonts-noto): "No Tofu" monospaced font family with large Unicode coverage. In component universe, is optional. Version 20160116-1 (xenial), package size 71 kB, installed size 143 kB
<kryten> Yay.
<kryten> zequence, sakrecoer: Ftm, I'd volunteer taking on an official role in administering the Studio IRC channels.
<zequence> kryten: Fine with me
<zequence> Let's see..
<zequence> We have a irc ops team. Since I so rarely do anything aside from write on IRC, I have little clue as to what powers it has
<zequence> Ah, there are two pending approvals for jimmy and set as well
<zequence> Must have missed that
<zequence> Ah, but it's not our team :(
<flocculant> zequence: the powers makes the one not using the powers buy cake for the rest :)
<zequence> We don't own it
<zequence> flocculant: I can eat cake, sure :)
<flocculant> :)
<zequence> kryten: Seems they decide who is on the team https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-irc-council
<kryten> zequence: Yes, it's the IRCC that governs those - would have to apply there, by joining that team.
<zequence> kryten: I think this is the team that should be ops on our channels https://launchpad.net/~irc-ubuntustudio-ops
<kryten> Yes.
<zequence> kryten: Anything I can help with for you to join that team?
<kryten> I'm on that page right now, that is. :P
<kryten> Nope, I'll just have to click the 'Join' button for now.
<zequence> Ok
<zequence> Just reading up on the application process
<zequence> Think I skipped that when I became a member, but I don't really remember
<kryten> Clicked.
<kryten> Looks pretty painless to me otherwise.
 * sakrecoer votes kryten for irc admin
<sakrecoer> i'll commit a fix as soon as i get home. 
<sakrecoer> had a crap day, couldn't make this afternoon.. but now the day is over...
<sakrecoer> :)
<DalekSec> zequence: You can add him to the ACL of here and -ot though.  I can't see if you have any templates for the channels, all I know is #ubuntustudio doesn't.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2016-03-16
<sakrecoer> http://paste.ubuntu.com/15398537/ 
<sakrecoer> just to make sure i'm not doing it wrong this time..
<sakrecoer> i removed -mono from desktop as zequence and kryten discussed eariler today (15th mar 2016)
<kryten> We did?
<sakrecoer> yes 09:22
<sakrecoer> in reply to zequence at 02:15
<sakrecoer> or did i missunderstand, kryten ?
<kryten> That's basically to opposing statements, with a reference to an earlier one, with no follow-up - so it's not exactly that clear to me right now whether to include -mono there as well or not. :P
<sakrecoer> ok, how is the margin until the metas.. ehm "go through" again since the delicous ross commit?
<kryten> So we should probably clear that up properly before pushing any changes anywhere.
<sakrecoer> sure, of course!
<kryten> Also, we still have to patch up livecd-rootfs regarding the 'font-meta' â 'fonts' change anyway.
<kryten> (For reference: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/livecd-rootfs/trunk/view/head:/live-build/auto/config#L350 )
<zequence> sakrecoer: After adding the new font, I was told that Xubuntu only added -hinted. In our case, we also like to add extra fonts to our -fonts meta, so that is why the -mono font could be added there
<zequence> We could even add the full thing to -fonts, if it makes sense for graphics people
<zequence> That is the discussion we had a couple of weeks ago about the fonts.
<kryten> zequence: But since -mono is really that small, and people might want to use it instead of the default mono font in other apps too, like the terminal and Mousepad...?
<zequence> kryten: My policy has been not to make that kind of changes to desktop. Just stay synced with Xubuntu
<zequence> If we change one little detail here or there - no big deal though
<zequence> I guess mostly it is the configuration of the XFCE specific stuff that I don't want to start messing with.
<zequence> Think I've said this in the past. If someone is willing to put a lot of time and energy on the desktop, we could have our own custom setup - but that will require more than just a change here or there.
<zequence> Someone needs to be responsible for bug fixes and that sort of thing as well
<zequence> ..and there needs to be a well formed plan, first of all
<zequence> don't think the -mono font is going to hurt anyone
<zequence> I'm not as concerned about the font as I am about the size. We should be able to make a desktop for everyone, not just people with good eye sight
<zequence> I could take this up with Xubuntu. But, I need to do some testing first.
<kryten> Ftm, apart from at least leaving the user the option to easily choose the monospace font in line of the general one, I personally can't see the readability issues that made some in the Xubuntu team to decide against it as the default font for the mentioned apps - I've been using it without any issues on my old CRT even.
<zequence> I would have to agree that a mono font is probably not in everyones interest
<kryten> Umm, those are monospace font apps.
<kryten> So they're using a monospace font anyway - just another one.
<zequence> Ah, those two, right
<zequence> No mono on those two?
<zequence> I haven't checked myself, tbh
<kryten> They're using DejaVu Sans Mono currently.
<zequence> ok
<kryten> So, I'm not arguing to set that as default for those as well, just to make it available by default.
<zequence> kryten: Maybe you and sakrecoer can have a look at this stuff. For me, I don't really care about the specifics, as long as the people making the changes have good reason to do so
<zequence> And, as reference, there is a difference between what any individual would like as compared to what the studio users need and require
<sakrecoer> i think its a very nice detail, to have terminal match the rest of the desktop. and since it is small and doesn't seem to be to much pain to achieve, i'd very much like to have it there
<zequence> I'll leave it up to you then
<sakrecoer> kryten: looking at http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/livecd-rootfs/trunk/view/head:/live-build/auto/config#L350 and feeling a mix of "bring it on!:)" and "wuuut" :D
<kryten> Well, it's a tiny change anyway, only how best to approach it, and get the people responsible to change sometime soon it too. :P
<kryten> * it sometime soon...
<kryten> We could start by prodding it to any of the still relevant members of the CD Image team ( https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-cdimage/+members )in -release, before potentially going for an MP.
<kryten> Either way, that's what makes the image builds fail currently.
<kryten> (Of course, that'd be better any of you two.)
<sakrecoer> prodding? producing? is the font making the image fail?
<kryten> The fonts seed rename, yes.  And by that I basically mean ask people - and infinity would be my first choice there.
<sakrecoer>  ok, prodding =  To jab or poke, as with a pointed object.
<sakrecoer> hahaha.... i don't what is in my coffee today, but....? infinity?
<kryten> LOL - I don't know either.  IRC nick of Adam Conrad.
<zequence> infinity is the lead release manager for Ubuntu, working for Canonical
<zequence> sakrecoer: Are you in #ubuntu-release, #ubuntu-devel?
<zequence> If not, you should be
<sakrecoer> ok :)
<zequence> I think we should fix the problem ourselves if we can
<zequence> I haven't looked closely on the build failure, but if it is because of problems in our metas or seeds, we can fix that pretty easily ourselves
<sakrecoer> ok, thats good. with a little help from our good kryten, i should be able to resolve this. so you can focus on those rocks you have rolling zequence 
<kryten> zequence: Well, we could only fix it ourselves by renaming the fonts seed back. :P
<zequence> kryten: Why is that?
<kryten> Did you have a look at the link I posted earlier?
<kryten> Still says "font-meta".
<kryten> So,...
<zequence> Ah, right
<zequence> Let me ask someone at -release about that, then
<zequence> But, the ubuntustudio-font-meta should still work though, shouldn't it?
<zequence> Anyway, I'll be back later
<kryten> The package yes, the task not.
<zequence> I knew that changing names would mean a lot of work. Didn't realize this though.
<zequence> In many situations, you just want to go with the original name, no matter how pedantic you are :)
<kryten> Well, it's still trivial enough though.
<kryten> It's just a bit more effort if it involves other people/teams too, of course.
<zequence> kryten: You want to continue helping out with studio development? I could add you to the dev team, if you want
<kryten> Yes, I'd very much love that. :)
<zequence> kryten: Ok. You seem to know your way around the sources. Just don't make changes unless: 1) it's a clear bug fix 2) it's in a feature definition 3) me or sakrecoer are informed (I should write this down somewhere as a guide line for developers)
<zequence> sakrecoer: cjwatson fixed the live build config for us
<kryten> Yes, of course - I'm not that crazy. :D
<zequence> sakrecoer: cjwatson is an extremely helpful guy who has had a bit too much to do, and for that reason I try not to bother him
<kryten> zequence: Awesome, that was quick indeed. \o/
<zequence> I think cjwatson wrote ubiquity, originally. He's a maintainer of GRUB and stuff like that.
<zequence> Also works for Canonical
<sakrecoer> double yay \:D/ 
<sakrecoer> welcome to team kryten!! 
<kryten> Thanks. :)
<sakrecoer> and great the cjwatson input!
<zequence> infinity is also very, very helpful. But, I generally don't ask people directly these days. I put out a question on a channel, and wait
<sakrecoer> just let me get clear on what is what: cjwatson, fixed the things needed to be fixed due to that name-change?.... (.. )?
<zequence> yes, he changed the configs in the file that kryten posted before http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/livecd-rootfs/trunk/view/head:/live-build/auto/config#L350
<sakrecoer> i understand zequence . respect for other people priorities is something i'd be peaky on too...
<zequence> kryten: This is your LP page, right? https://launchpad.net/~krytarik
<kryten> Yep.
<zequence> kryten: you're in. I sent a short welcome to the team post on the mail list as well, to inform others
<kryten> Thanks - yes, ok. :3
<kryten> :D
<zequence> kryten: Have you tried making your own image builds?
<kryten> Wow, nope. :D
<zequence> I was trying to replicate the Ubuntu method a couple of years ago. Would be good to have in place when experimenting with ubiquity plugins and additional DE support
<kryten> Not really feasible with an ancient machine like mine either. :P
<zequence> Don't think you need so much power. But, a server is nice to have.
<sakrecoer> i often recieve doubles of bug repports. and i just got this ML brought to my attention by kryten: https://lists.launchpad.net/ubuntustudio-dev/
<zequence> sakrecoer: Yes, it was created at some point. If you set up a mail list filter, you should get those in a different mail box
<kryten> That is to say, any team member that's subscribed to that ML not only gets the LP notifications sent to it individually, due to being in the team, but also via the ML - and there doesn't seem to be anything else sent to it than those LP notifications.  And since we have the usual ubuntu-studio-devel ML anyway, I think it'd make sense to just close that one.
<zequence> True
<OvenWerk1> kryten: I think the reason the ML was set up was to allert us to a bug in one of the packages we include that was created by someone outside of our team so we did not miss it.
<zequence> We now have ubuntustudio-bugs team for bug notifications
<zequence> I deactivated it
<kryten> \o/ - thanks.
<sakrecoer> :) great! i already had a filter, but it wouldn't remove doubles...
<sakrecoer> *have even
<zequence> Might be a good idea to make the -dev team subscribed to our packages in launchpad
<zequence> Was going to have a look at that, but LP is not responding suddenly
<zequence> About the bug 427500
<ubottu> bug 427500 in ubuntustudio-meta (Ubuntu) "package should depend on 'pd' rather than 'puredata'" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/427500
<zequence> Don't think there is a pd package
<zequence> I'd mark it invalid, but LP seems to have choked
<zequence> They really wanted to keep our ML
<kryten> lol
<zequence> bb later this evening
#ubuntustudio-devel 2016-03-17
<OvenWerk1> re: yoshimi and zynaddsubfx. It looks like we should be switching to zynaddsubfx as it is seeing much more active development.
<OvenWerk1> from http://yoshimi.sourceforge.net/ "The two projects are now in wonderfully active, but different, development." That is yoshimi can no longer be considered a replacement for zynadsubfx. It may be worth adding to our meta. Things zyn provides that yosh does not seem to include the ability to use as a plugin (LV2/dssi).
<OvenWerk1> zynaddsubfx in our repo for X is one version behind... and there seems to be a new release due out within the next few weeks. The new GUI for ver3.0 looks really nice but version 3 will not be out soon enough for 16.* it seems.
<OvenWerk1> specimen may be the next application to die of bitrot... last release in 2007. The fork/replacement petri-foo has not been updated since 2012 though the github site does show some movement last year. I am wondering if samplv1 might be a better replacement. Anyone with some love for sampling/sampleplaying can compare? Are there things one can do that the other(s) can't?
#ubuntustudio-devel 2016-03-18
<sakrecoer> i still get the blueman crash at start up on my dev install...
<sakrecoer> am i missing something?
<kryten> sakrecoer: Not if you think it's not fixed yet, nope :P - LP bug 1533206.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1533206 in blueman (Ubuntu) "Blueman-applet crash on login: DBusException in call_blocking(): org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.TimedOut: Failed to activate service 'org.bluez': timed out" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1533206
<zequence> Just told this is offtopic channel. Going to abandon any work on -controls for this release. Maybe do a backport later.
<zequence> Have rewritten the application from scratch, but only added a new feature. It is not ready though, which is why I haven't put it up yet
<zequence> s/is/on
<OvenWerk1> understood.
<OvenWerk1> zequence: -controls as it sits is still quite useful.
<OvenWerk1> I look forward to the changes.
<OvenWerk1> sakrecoer: the blueman crash... I think is just blueman exiting due to not finding HW. So the problem is that the system picks it up as a crash.
<OvenWerk1> I will try setting up my Wiimote later. If that still works then the system is workable.
<sakrecoer> if you are arround krytarik maybe we can continue where we left of on that lightDM thing? :)
<sakrecoer> later thsi evening that is...
<sakrecoer> anyways, i have to run now! o/~
<kryten> I'll be around, yes - that'd be nice.
<sakrecoer> got a mail from madeinkobaia. in french. very nice, gave a very different tone somehow.
<sakrecoer> zequence, he said that he was willing to do some efforts to work in a more teamoriented way. if i got it right, what is keeping him from it is language barrier
<sakrecoer> keeping him from it = keeping him from being more engaged in the team.
<sakrecoer> he also said that until may he hasn't got the time-space to do anything, unfortunately..
<sakrecoer> zequence: too bad for the controls. i guess i can relate with the feeling of being uninspired... Whish i could ring on your dorbell with some tacos and beers and help you do it... or bring a cheerleader robot team with pompoms to do some motivation dance under your window
<sakrecoer> been wanting to say it would be an awesome legacy as you step down, but i'm affraid it would just pressure you instead..
<sakrecoer> so, i organised a robot cheerleading team instead:
<sakrecoer> â|ï¾Îµï¾|â â|ï¾Ð·ï¾|â â|ï¾Îµï¾|â â|ï¾Ð·ï¾|â â|ï¾Îµï¾|â â|ï¾Ð·ï¾|â
<sakrecoer> it isn't techincaly under your window, but hey, it is IN your irssi window :p
<knome> sakrecoer, can you confirm me something?
<knome> sakrecoer, when you log in to the ubuntustudio.org web admin, do you have administrator access?
<sakrecoer> let me check
<sakrecoer> ehm... atm all i see on ubuntustudio.org is a white page with an orange ubuntu header
<knome> i notice that too
<knome> but can you just log in?
<sakrecoer> i'm in, but how do i tell what type of account i have?
<knome> sakrecoer, can you see the menu "appearance -> menus" ?
<sakrecoer> yes
<knome> ok, great
<knome> then you can likely see "appearance -> themes" too
<sakrecoer> yes
<knome> sakrecoer, you should be able to switch to the correct ubuntu studio theme from that page
<sakrecoer> knome: buntu Loco Light Theme ?
<sakrecoer> Ubuntu Loco Light Theme, even
<knome> no
<knome> should be very prominently ubuntu studio
<knome> if it isn't available... sigh
<sakrecoer> no such theme i am affraid...
<knome> if you want, you can add me to the team that has the admin rights on ubuntustudio.org and i can try to debug it directly with the IS
<sakrecoer> sure, i have never done that before tho, knome.
<knome> ok, so the membership is linked to a certain LP team
<knome> do you know what that is or should i help you figure out?
<sakrecoer> i reckon it is this one: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntustudio-website
<sakrecoer> but i don't know for sure..
<knome> sakrecoer, you can make sure @ settings -> openid teams
<knome> you want the line with role administrator and the ubuntustudio team
<sakrecoer> yeah that would be the team
<knome> great
<sakrecoer> your lp is ~knome ?
<knome> yes
<sakrecoer> strange, i can add you, but i'm not a member of that team...
<sakrecoer> oh, maybe it doesn't list me if i look from my own account or something adding you now anyways
<sakrecoer> knome: done!
<knome> thanks
<knome> sakrecoer, you're a member of the core team, which is admin, so you have indirect membership as an admin
<sakrecoer> ok, i added you, knome but i don't see you listed either...
<sakrecoer> oh, now i do :)
<zequence> knome: Our old theme has been replaced
<zequence> Don't think that was the idea, right?
<knome> zequence, not at all; i'm debugging it as we speak with the IS
<knome> zequence, if they even replaced it with the new theme, not the outdated one
<zequence> knome: Well, we still need to have our old theme there, until we have prepared for the new one, which we haven't yet
<knome> zequence, yes, i'm working on that
<zequence> Yeah, saw that, sorry
<knome> zequence, i just just saying this is the worst situation ;)
<zequence> Has to happen to somebody :)
<zequence> Back to normal
<knome> ok, should be good now
<knome> yep
<zequence> sakrecoer: Ok, so madeinkobaia won't be around for any work for a while, then
<sakrecoer> zequence: yup, and he is willing to teamwork, but it seems he doesn't really feel capable due to language...
<knome> phew. it was close - weekend soon and nobody from the IS around..
<zequence> I'm sure he'll warm up to it :)
<zequence> knome: :D
<knome> we can begin talking finnish with zequence to make him feel more comfortable with french 
<zequence> Babel all over again
<zequence> knome: Weird that they can't add another source
<zequence> Where are the theme configs saved, anyway? We need to prepare it on a staging site before we publish it anyway
<zequence> We should make those settings first, have them in a repo, and upload from that
<knome> zequence, they are saved in the database
<zequence> knome: Ah. In a specific table, right?
<knome> zequence, yep, _options iirc
<zequence> We could just set up a front page saying "we're doing maintenance right now, come back later"
<knome> well, 
<knome> considering if/as you can coordinate a specific time when you want to set the theme up to make sure the IS and you are both available, sure
<zequence> Else, do both theming and database migration at once
<knome> if both themes were available, you could see the new theme in the customization/live preview
<knome> and make sure everything is right there
<knome> and once you are ready, kick in the new theme
<knome> but if you can only ever have one of the two themes available, that's not possible..
<knome> well unless you switch to, say, twenty sixteen in between
<knome> but that seems silly
<zequence> Ok. I haven't actually tried making changes to a theme before switching to it
<knome> that's a relatively recent addition
<knome> but yeah, you can handle it from the GUI now
<zequence> knome: Thanks for setting this up, btw.
<knome> np
<knome> if you don't mind, i'll stay in the web team until you got the migration done to make sure there isn't anything fishy going on
<zequence> knome: You are welcome to stay there as long as you want on my account.
<knome> :)
<knome> i try to remove some hats anyway..
<zequence> Try cutting of one or two ears first
<zequence> off*
<knome> i'm out of all appendages and limbs by that analogy already
#ubuntustudio-devel 2016-03-19
<OvenWerk1> with reguard to kernels. The low latency kernel finally responds to autoremove  \o/
<OvenWerk1> But it has to be manually done
<OvenWerk1> there seems to be no GUI method of doing this. Is there a GUI method of cleaning up kernels in any of the other flavours?
<kryten> OvenWerk1: Not that I know of, no.
<OvenWerk1> kryten: That is too bad, some systems have a small /boot/ partition (UFI I think) that could over fill.
<kryten> Yep, that's regularly an issue these days.
<flocculant> install with lvm and/or encrypted (never sure which) and get a 256Mb /boot partition - doesn't take much filling
<OvenWerk1> maybe a conflicts with version < one version back?
<kryten> Eww.
<OvenWerk1> :)
<OvenWerk1> qjackctl is still broken even the new one from testing.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2016-03-20
<sakrecoer> https://code.launchpad.net/ubuntustudio-default-settings says there is still an active review. now that it has been merged and approved, not sure it should be "active"...? nor how to change its status..
<sakrecoer> \o/ found it  :)
#ubuntustudio-devel 2017-03-14
<acheronuk> bug #1672672
<ubottu> bug 1672672 in krita (Ubuntu) "[FFe] Krita 3.1.2.1 for zesty" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1672672
<acheronuk> I would like to get that into zesty, so if anyone interested would like to comment/test then please do add to the FFe bug :)
#ubuntustudio-devel 2019-03-11
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Just backported calf and lmms as well.
<astraljava> OvenWerks: Didn't follow the whole convo, but didn't see it mentioned over a quick glance. Bionic isn't an LTS from Studio POV, only community support is still ongoing.
<Eickmeyer> astraljava: We're doing a quasi-LTS. The ISO isn't getting LTS updates, but we created a backports PPA and are supporting it until the 20.04 release.
<OvenWerks> astraljava: While it is true 18.04 Studio is not an LTS, most of the flavours 18.04 are LTS and with -installer, any flavour can become *studio. So it is worthwhile keeping backports alive for 18.04 for that reason.
 * OvenWerks has trouble remembering all these names and finds numbers easier to deal with
<astraljava> Oh okay, thanks guys! I guess I should keep my mouth shut when I am so out of the loop, still. :D
<astraljava> And I concur, the names just don't stick with me.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2019-03-14
 * Eickmeyer makes a mental note to add a metapackage for the wine bridges to Carla and said metapackage to -installer.
<Eickmeyer> The calm before the testing storm...
<Eickmeyer> BTW, everyone, images are building again! \o/
<Eickmeyer> Still waiting on an admin to release Carla from the new queue.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2019-03-15
 * OvenWerks should download one :)
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: /etc/xdg/xdg-ubuntustudio/xfce4/xfconf/xfce-perchannel-xml/ has xfce4-keyboard-shortcuts.xml
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Okay, heading out to get my son to school. Willl check when I get back, but, tbh, I've never had a problem.
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: I think that device 1 or device 0 used to be the same as @DEFAULT_SINK@ but at some point that changed.
<OvenWerks> anyway I will keep writing here... you can read when you get back ;)
<OvenWerks> Actually I won't be able to do much as I have an appointment right away.
<OvenWerks> The general thing is that the shortcut should run: pactl set-sink-volume @DEFAULT_SINK@ -1
<OvenWerks> and pactl 
<OvenWerks> and: pactl set-sink-volume @DEFAULT_SINK@ +1
<OvenWerks> if you use settings->keyboard->application shortcuts  to set it, then you should find the line to add to the above file in /etc in ~/.config/xfce4/xfconf/xfce-perchannel-xml/
<OvenWerks> gotta go.
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: When you get back, it appears that we don't have anything in the keyboard shortcuts that's not different from the default keyboard shortcuts in xfce, and my settings in ~/.config/... don't show any different, so we already have the shortcuts set properly.
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: By the way, if that Chris guy refuses to take our support advice, I might eject him from the room because 1) what's the point of being in a support room if you're not going to take it, and 2) we don't want him spreading bad advice.
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: he can apt remove ubuntustudio-controls...
<Eickmeyer> He did.
<Eickmeyer> But, I'd rather he fix the problem or find the bug than take such a drastic view. He didn't understand that -controls doesn't display the exact state of the audio configuration. He was assuming that since the box was checked that Jack was still running..
<Eickmeyer> Without checking anything else, such as qjackctl which would show if it was still running.
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: it was obvious to me that he has no understanding of low latency audio.
<Eickmeyer> And that's one reason why I'm worried he'll give bad advice.
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: anyway, as part of the next my next work on -controls I will remove the checkbox for start jack at session start. and replace it with a jack is running LED or indicator.
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: That's a great idea. No rush on that, but I think 19.10 would be a good target.
<OvenWerks> He said he has "low latency" hw... and so doewsn't need jack ??!
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Yeah. smh
<OvenWerks> Not only that, he has a USB device, so not that low latency.
<Eickmeyer> Not without Jack.
<Eickmeyer> Maybe ASIO or CoreAudio works with it better, but that applies to anything compared to Pulse.
<OvenWerks> even with jack, USB is minimum 1ms one way just to run and twice that for no xruns if everything is set right
<Eickmeyer> Right. Low latency, not no latency.
<OvenWerks> windows is worse, CoreAudio better out of the box
<OvenWerks> Windows hides things... they just have a latecny slider... if you get clicks try higher latency settings.
<Eickmeyer> Are you talking about ASIO4All or just in general?
<OvenWerks> The mac hardware is (well used to be) better because they are much more careful about not tying all the USB ports together inside
<Eickmeyer> Yeah, with Macs that went bye-bye as soon as they went to one single USB-C connector for everything. :P
<OvenWerks> just windows in general... the set of tweaks for windows to get good low latency opperation are not easy user settings... definately not and out of the box deal.
<OvenWerks> it went bye bye when Jobs did.
<Eickmeyer> Yes. When Jobs went, that was it for Apple imho.
<OvenWerks> I could not find any lines in the kb shortcuts with a pactl line. I think we need to add one for vol controls.
<OvenWerks> anyway I won't be able to look at it till the next time my wife goes to work at the earliest. (so not today)
<Eickmeyer> No hurry.
<OvenWerks> So two things for sure in -controls periods and jack indicator.
<OvenWerks> Actually three, -controls startup should remove PA config added by Cadence and remove the Cadence autostart file.
<OvenWerks> Then it would not matter if Cadence is also installed. (may have to stop the autostarted Cadence as well)
<Eickmeyer> Yep.
<Eickmeyer> I have to fix some stuff in Carla as well, in terms of packaging. It's still hanging-out in the new queue.
<Eickmeyer> Removing this page after 16.04 EOL: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuStudioPreparation
#ubuntustudio-devel 2019-03-17
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: the last -controls commit is a no op
<OvenWerks> but it reminds me where to next
<OvenWerks> I have sort of given up on the drawing tablet part of things for now.
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: I see, but you should probably bump the version number.
<OvenWerks> I think auto builds will be bad if we do that
<Eickmeyer> RE: tablet, makes sense. eylul- might be re-joining in the summer, and if she does, then that might help with the tablet part.
<OvenWerks> IE if I bump the version, then auto builds will be ahead of next release and next release will not get chosen over autobuild
<Eickmeyer> True, but the auto builds aren't working right now due to the compat/debhelper versions.
<OvenWerks>  :)
<OvenWerks> Anyway, I need to get my boys up
<Eickmeyer> But, yes, for now we need to keep the autobuilds frozen anyhow.
<Eickmeyer> Sounds good. I'm taking care of an ailing wife. Flu got her for the first time in idk how long.
<OvenWerks> I think for 19.04 I will go Studio on top of kubuntu. While not obvious, I think it will make drawing tablet work easier.
<OvenWerks> kubuntu comes with a tablet set utility and so I would be able to run them side by side and see what a GUI should look like.
<Eickmeyer> I have just about every single DE installed simultaneously, but that's because I'm experimental like that, and my computer seems to like Gnome the best, in terms of wake-from-sleep. But, that's because I'm on a laptop.
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: In my case, my computer will have to deal withever works best for me... that has the best work flow. For me, using Gnome makes me do the most work to get done what I want. Even after setting things up the best I can. xfce and plasma seem to work best for me. Plasma may end up better than xfce after I use it a bit.
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: I guess I'm just versatile. I'm no longer a distrohopper, but definitely a DE hopper. Have them all installed simultaneously with my ~/.profile file configured to do whatever changes necessary to switch between DE's.
<OvenWerks> Anyway, I am a bit "off" today. We had dinner with some friends Friday and he started choking on blood as we go to the parking lot. He had stopped breathing by the time we got to the hospital but was revived. I found out today that he died yesterday morning... so I am a bit grumpy.
<OvenWerks> (sad, grieving, whatever)
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: So, so sorry to hear that. Let me know if you need anything. We're in our own little freeze at the moment, so take your time, don't worry about Ubuntu Studio.
<OvenWerks> I prolly won't do much for this release (I think everything is pretty good so far) but I may work on future stuff to keep my mind busy.
<Eickmeyer> I honestly think we're good for this release. I'm just battling getting Carla out of the NEW queue. FalkTX coordinated with me and released 2.0 today. I have the patches ready to go, I just need Carla in disco-proposed.
<studiobot> <Duke> Congratulations Erich and Ross on getting upload priviledes!  I know it's a little delayed.  Keep up the fantastic work you are doing.
<studiobot> <Eickmeyer> @Duke [Congratulations Erich and Ross on getting upload priviledes!  I know it's a litt â¦], Thanks, Duke! Ross isn't normally in IRC (or even Telegram, for that matter), but I'll pass it along. :)
#ubuntustudio-devel 2020-03-09
 * Eickmeyer[m] uploaded an image: Well, this matches the website... (300KB) < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/MMzjlGjwvjywjUoxUvMudiFc >
<studiobot> <azbulutlu> ok looking at this zoomed in there are some problems with it
<studiobot> <azbulutlu> you see the circles that is happening, on the gradient, that is why I am going with textures. :) but I think I have some ideas....
<studiobot> <azbulutlu> I like the general concept through (sorry, you I typed that first but apparently the messages from my phone never got through :)) )
<studiobot> <azbulutlu> (Photo, 1280x720) https://i.imgur.com/cHgBPmK.jpg here is near completed version of mine btw
<studiobot> <azbulutlu> there are edges that are lighter than it should be otherwise it is completed
<studiobot> <azbulutlu> btw this is there the "smoky" is. more painterly less smoky :)
<studiobot> <azbulutlu> (Photo, 1280x720) https://i.imgur.com/tspB6dv.jpg
<studiobot> <azbulutlu> about yours a few fixes I will suggest is removing the gradient at the background. making the logo a tiny bit thicker. and maybe putting a hint of the lighter shapes on left side of the screen as well, (they can be thinner but it will help balancing the image) You can also play with the color tones of the shapes a bit like this:
<studiobot> <azbulutlu> (Photo, 1280x720) https://i.imgur.com/15MTrFC.jpg
<studiobot> <azbulutlu> and that moment you don't realize you were posting to the dev and edit your posts. sorry for the chaos. :)
<studiobot> <Eickmeyer> @azbulutlu I think I like yours more than mine and would rather use that.
<studiobot> <azbulutlu> let me know how to get you guys the files, I can put it on my personal github if it will work or let me know where. in terms of your idea I think there definitely is a good idea in there, if you have the chance send me the SVG file, i can play around with it and see where it goes. :))
<studiobot> <azbulutlu> https://github.com/azbulutlu/ubuntustudio-wallpaper-20.04
<studiobot> <Eickmeyer> I got the files, and they're ready to go for the next upload.
<Eickmeyer> teward: Do you have any idea why a launchpad builder would get stuck at this same spot? https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntustudio-look/0.72/+build/18819561
<Eickmeyer> Nvm, it's just pkgstripfiles is being super slow.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2020-03-10
<studiobot> <azbulutlu> @Eickmeyer just redid and exported the wallpaper. there was a quite bad artifact that was only visible scale that was somehow avoiding the screenshots. lesson learned about not going overzealous with simplify on inkscape. :)
<studiobot> <azbulutlu> @Eickmeyer there was a quite serious visual artifact on the wallpaper, so that is now fixed. new version is up at github.
<studiobot> <teward001> Eickmeyer you pinged?
<teward> oh you found it out
<teward> yeah pkgstripfiles can sometimes be slow
<studiobot> <Eickmeyer> @azbulutlu I'll go ahead and download it.
<studiobot> <azbulutlu> :)
<xequence> So, Tascam-122.
<xequence> Seems like there are firmware with alsa extra packages, but perhaps the kernel is not configured correctly
<xequence> This is hardware from 2003 and beyond. mk2 might not work at all.
<xequence> There is*
<xequence> Turns out it was correctly configured.
<xequence> But, M-Audio old devices may be neglected. I haven
<xequence> haven't looked further into it, but couldn't start mine on a new install of 20.04
<Eickmeyer> Now There's a name we haven't seen in forever! ^
<OvenWerks> Ya, I would have liked to get just a bit more info... (and said "hi")
<OvenWerks> If he is talking about FW IFs it is known. if by m-audio he means delta* mine still works fine
<studiobot> <azbulutlu> it might be worth putting an information on social media asking folks to test just in case?
<Eickmeyer[m]> Well, the problem is that alsa is part of the kernel, and that the support for older FW interfaces is pretty much in bitrot mode at this point since nobody is making new FW IFs.
<Eickmeyer[m]> Really nothing we can do about that.
<Eickmeyer[m]> Even if people tested.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2020-03-11
<Eickmeyer[m]> Honestly, though, if he comes back, I'd love to throw the current kernel config his way and see if he has any ideas.
<Eickmeyer[m]> OvenWerks^
<OvenWerks> The thing is, I don't know for sure that is FW he is talking about.
<OvenWerks> The tascam 122 when I look it up, is a casette deck with no digital anything I can see
#ubuntustudio-devel 2020-03-13
<Eickmeyer> Team: I found a source of our burnout that has occurred in the past: attempting to provide both development/maintenance support and technical support simultaneously. It's my belief that those of us developing items should abstain from technical/user support as much as possible to prevent burnout.
<Eickmeyer> I'm putting-out a blog post now explaining that the community needs to step-up.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2020-03-15
<Eickmeyer[m]> OvenWerks: We've got something: bug 1867539
<ubottu> bug 1867539 in ubuntustudio-controls "pulseaudio bridge cause mass Xruns, even there is no output/input" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1867539
<Eickmeyer[m]> I assigned it to you. Could you respond to it perhaps? It might even be invalid.
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer[m]: I think he just needs to hit the apply button after removing the bridge...
<Eickmeyer[m]> Most likely. I figured it's probably invalid (not a bug but a support request)
<OvenWerks> It may be worth while adding a generic on/off button as well so the settings can remain intact. But that would be a new feature for next cycle :)
<Eickmeyer[m]> Right. I just closed the bug report as invalid since you nor I have a problem there. I figured since they mentioned Cadence that they may have had Cadence previously installed which might be messing with stuff too, and we don't support Cadence.
<OvenWerks> Cadence does not "uninstall" :P
<Eickmeyer[m]> Exxxactly.
