#ubuntustudio-devel 2010-10-11
<paultag> Heyya persia 
<paultag> 'afternoon
<paultag> Now that the -M cycle is all set, reporting in for the -N cycle :)
<persia> paultag, Hey.  I expect ScottL will be giving us guidance on what to do in the next couple weeks.
<paultag> awesome
<persia> For now, best thing is probably to catch the bugs reported by early installers, and try to get those sorted so that we don't have to think about them later, once we're busy.
<paultag> persia, any routine tasks that should be done no matter what?
<paultag> Aye, sounds good
<persia> Two big sources of routine stuff are triaging/closing user-reported bugs and ensuring we're as closely in sync with the debian-multimedia crew as possible (being in sync means we don't need to upload twice: we can just sync bugfixes)
<paultag> roger, makes sense
<paultag> persia, I'm not MOTU. Should I just file requests for syncs and patches to Debian?
<paultag> I have a pretty good relationship upstream
<persia> Well, can't do much with Debian now: it's frozen for squeeze release.
<paultag> persia, sure is, but that does not rule out experimental uploads
<persia> If there are outstanding patches in Ubuntu or Debian that aren't yet upstream, getting those upstream would usefully streamline updates in the future.
<paultag> roger
<persia> Actually, often an experimental upload isn't even needed: just get a commit to the debian-multimedia VCS.
<persia> Then the next Debian upload becomes a sync into Ubuntu.
<paultag> righto
<persia> We're not in much of a hurry at the beginning of a cycle.
<paultag> aye, but I know how crazy it gets at the end of a cycle so I try and get stuff done early :)
<persia> http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/multidistrotools/ubuntustudio.html is a summary of current discrepancies between Ubuntu and Debian for our packages.
<paultag> Oh, killer
<persia> Looks like about 40 packages need investigation.
<persia> Err, 50.
 * persia gives up on trying to do math
<paultag> :)
<persia> Note that sometimes there is a requirement for a difference between Debian and Ubuntu.  Lots of times we want different Recommends: to avoid getting other things on the images, or we need to support something from other parts of Ubuntu that differs from Debian.
<paultag> persia, a lot of our ubuntuN uploads ( > sid ) do some good fixes -- do you know if it's common practice to send that to the BTS ?
<persia> I don't know if it's common.  I know it's encouraged.
<paultag> aye
<persia> *but*
<paultag> persia, I'll see if I can't push through sending the ones they'd want upstream
<persia> It's always worth attempting to replicate the issue in a Debian environment (or with upstream), and then sending the targeted patch (not the entire diff) to Debian and/or upstream.
<paultag> Cool. I have a few VMs ( stable / testing / unstable ) and a netbook with testing on it
<paultag> should not be too hard :)
<persia> Perfect!
<paultag> persia, I maintain flux in Debian, I am pretty cool with the process up there
<paultag> fluxbox *
<persia> heh, indeed you would be.
<paultag> :)
<paultag> Well I'll get on reviewing some of this stuff
<paultag> thanks persia :)
<persia> if you want to get serious about Ubuntu Studio stuff, you probably also want to get involved with Debian-Multimedia
<paultag> I'll send them an email :)
<paultag> There we are, #debian-multimedia on oftc. Nice :)
<paultag> and on the mailing list. Ready to rock.
<ScottL> paultag and persia, that is awesome!
<ScottL> paultag, i had also began to look at this: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/tag/ubuntustudio
<paultag> killer ScottL 
<paultag> ScottL, I'll see if I can chip away there too ( after I'm done jamming ;) )
<ScottL> this has all packages in REVU that ubuntu studio would be interested in, many of these have been not making much progress
<ScottL> paultag, :)
<ScottL> i was going to talk with quadrispro about getting them into debian first but he's on vacation (and i was slow about it as well)
<paultag> ScottL, hopefully I can foster some kind of relationship upstream
<persia> Some upstreams for the REVU stuff hang around in this channel
<scott-upstairs> persia, ubuntu studio website - https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntustudio-dev/ubuntustudio-resources/website
<persia> scott-upstairs, Nice find.  Are you good for getting it updated?
<scott-upstairs> Not tonight, I've used most of my free, available time for the evening, persia
<scott-upstairs> but perhaps tomorrow
<scott-upstairs> i'll try to snoop around in the package nonetheless tonight, just to understand where and what
<persia> That looks like a drupal theme and some scrap bits.  I think we need to change the content (which would involve logging into drupal, etc.)
<scott-upstairs> doh, then i sent an erroneous email to the -devel mailing list
<scott-upstairs> however, i also sent an email to eric and cory asking for direction, hopefully one of them responds relatively soon
<scott-upstairs> and of course i will need to mail the -devel list again to correct myself
<ScottL> a new and interested website mockup, under 'audio horizons' https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/TaskWebRevamp#Audio%20Horizons
<ScottL> has some promise i believe
<persia> I know I said I missed blue, but this subtly the wrong blue, and the color revamp seemed to align with the mission revamp, etc.
<persia> I do like the bit about making the -video and -graphics bits focused towards an -audio target.  I'm not convinced it's the right long-term solution, but it helps build a sense of coordination to the selection of stuff in the short term, and expansion should be easier once there is a well-working set of procedures for each bit (docs, testing, app selection, app maintainence, etc.)
<jussi> I think one of the things we need to keep is the dark theme, and thats why that doesnt work for me. The dark theme has always been an attraction for users, be they studio people or not, and I see no reason to change that. 
 * abogani waves
<abogani> Where could I upload some image file for let some users see it?
<jussi> abogani: imagebin.ca
<abogani> jussi: Thanks
<jussi> yw.
<jussi> btw, some new music from my friends band, if anyone is interested: http://www.myspace.com/theriffkinsband
<astraljava> ScottL: I really like the Audio Horizons mockup! Quite a refreshing change from all the dark themes.
<jussi> astraljava: so, what do you think of the riffkins?
<jussi> astraljava: and Hai!
<astraljava> jussi: Hello. :) I'll check them soon, no opinions yet. :)
<scott-work> is there any reason why this would not be a good candidate to run ubuntu studio  http://www.surpluscomputers.com/349849/rackable-systems-dual-xeon-2.8.html
<persia> scott-work, What do you intend to use it for?  That's not a quiet box, so if you don't have some noise isolation, you don't want it around microphones.
<scott-work> i thought it might be an interesting experiment to make a rackable ubuntu studio computer, i presume in the vein that daniel james has done things at one point or another
<scott-work> i realize that the hard drive is smallish and I would need a firewire audio interface most likely
<persia> I'd probably look at http://www.surpluscomputers.com/350052/rackable-systems-dual-xeon-3.0.html if purchasing from that provider.  The extra space will change the fan sound from a jet-engine to a mere roar.
<scott-work> and i might run out of firewire ports possible, if the mouse and keyboard need to be on firewire
<persia> And you might be able to do tricks with lower-power Xeons, baffling, etc.
<persia> Mouse and Keyboard never need to be on firewire: HID devices are notoriously bad at handling multipath network routing.
<scott-work> persia: sorry, meant usb, not firewire
<persia> You did see those were USB 1.1 ports, so completely unsuitable for anything other than HID, right?
<persia> That box can't handle USB audio, USB hard drives, etc.
<scott-work> i'm unsure what HID is exactly, but i think you are trying to tell me ... ah yes, you are ;)
<scott-work> i tend to avoid usb audio interfaces anyways
<scott-work> i would rather pay more for firewire (although that isn't necessarily as true anymore)
<scott-work> or i would prefer to use PCI card foremost (best latency, less driver headaches with the right card)
<persia> Human Interface Devices: keyboards, mice, tablets, BCIs, trackpads, trackballs, presentation controllers, joysticks, knobs, and other similar things not actually on my desk.
<persia> I suspect you could probably handle printers and scanners over 1.1 as well, as long as you mostly printed stuff that had a short postscript notation on a postscript printer, and scanned at low resolution (~300dpi) with some patience.
<scott-work> ah, learned a new acronym today
<scott-work> if this box is to be mine for studio work, i would not need printing or scanning capabilities, but i might end up giving it to someone else as well....i'll think about that some more i suppose
<persia> I read a recent discussion about USB Audio vs. Firewire.  Seems that newer USB is actually better than older (4- or 6- wire) firewire.
<scott-work> yes!  i was reading that, it's going to grossly effect my beliefs paradigm, LOL
<persia> Well, unless you're doing cool multi-device FW routing rather than just pushing everything into the computer.
<scott-work> can you give an example of "cool multi-device FW routing"?
<persia> Just take care: there's lots of older USB out there (like that server, or many audio interfaces (and *heaps* of MIDI interfaces).
<persia> Actually, that server can probably handle USB-MIDI just fine.
<persia> So, you have this synth and you have this computer and you have this Mackie FW mixer.
<persia> And you use the computer to send MIDI-over-FW to the synth, and also run local tone generators (perhaps a drum machine).
<persia> And you connect your guitar with DI and A/D to the mixer.
<persia> So the sounds from the external synth are sent over FW to the mixer, but never hit the computer.
<persia> Yamaha has a lot of cool software to make this work (but their linux client hasn't been updated since 2004, sadly, and doesn't build anymore).
<persia> FFADO has some (limited) support for routing, but doesn't have any discovery interface enabled.
<persia> Explaining rather than giving an example: USB is master/slave whereas Firewire is Peer-to-Peer.
<persia> If you have more than two Firewire devices on the bus, and they all have good software stacks, you can do Peer-Peer-Peer... so that no single device needs to carry all the bandwidth (and you can do looping topologies to optimise traffic if you have congestion)
<persia> Whereas with USB, some device needs to be at the centre of everything, and that device needs sufficient IO bandwidth to handle everything else simultaneously.
<persia> Anyway, been up too long.
<persia> Oh: small note for the avoidance of misinformation: the *reason* yamaha's linux client hasn't been updated since then is that Yamaha is still using that code on their linux-based workstations, whereas we have changed ABI to lose compatibility (at least, last I heard).  it's not about Yamaha not supporting linux, or not sharing code, or similar.
 * scott-work is reading backscroll now, been out in the shop at work
<scott-work> i understand more about FW routing now
<scott-work> persia: when you get up again, can we discuss the new proposed natty audio metapackages?  i have some concerns about installation logistics with an ubuntustudio-audio-base metapackage/task
<persia> Let's do that now: I might want to stop at some point, but I'd rather not having it hanging over me.
<persia> What are your concerns?
<scott-work> if we separate the -base from either -generating or -recording then we would need have two options for installation:
<scott-work> 1. -base is an option for the user to select and tasksel to install
<scott-work> 2. we use some logic in the installation process so that if either -generating or -recording is selected it automagickly installs -base as well
<scott-work> i think #1 includes an extra step that might cause problems for users (they forget to select it)
<scott-work> and i don't know how to do #2
<scott-work> my only suggested solution is to take all the packages included in -base and include them in both, -recording and -generating
<persia> For 2: I'd probably make -generating and -recording depend on base in STRUCTURE in the seeds, and not bother actually defining a -base task.
<scott-work> and i would expect that the installation process is smart enough to realise they are duplicative
<persia> Just have two overlapping tasks (-generating and -recording) from three seeds.
<persia> overlap is fine: apt is smart enough to do the right thing.
 * scott-work sent release declaration to distrowatch
<scott-work> all the other *buntu variants all seem to hit distrowatch at the same time, i wonder if we can get on that list so it happens automatically
<scott-work> persia: why do you say that two tasks are "overlapping" from three seeds?
<persia> So, each seed can declare that it ought be a task.
<persia> And in debian/rules in the metapackage source, one can declare which seeds become metapackages.
<persia> In the seed collection branch, there is a file named "STRUCTURE" which allows one to define dependencies between seeds.
<scott-work> i have STRUCTURE in front of me now
 * scott-work keeps a manilla folder with certain time-based pertinant documentation, ala the seeds
<persia> If there are two seeds, each of which happens to declare a task, and they contain the same package, apt will properly sort it out so that the package is only installed once if both tasks are installed (as will all the other package managers)
<scott-work> okay, so you are saying that "the same package" in this case might be the -base metapackage :)
<persia> If two seeds both declare the same dependency in STRUCTURE (e.g. both ubuntu/desktop and kubuntu/desktop have a dependency on platform/desktop-common), and both define tasks, those tasks can be said to overlap.
<scott-work> i was thinking in the lower paradigm of all the packages in -base might be listed in both of the other metapackages
<persia> At the task and metapackage layer, that's precisely how it would work.
<persia> For simplicity of maintenance, we'd want to rely on germinate to actually handle that, and use a common seed for the -base stuff, which had no associated task or metapackage.
<persia> And in STRUCTURE we'd have the seeds that we want to overlap depend on that.
<scott-work> right, like ubuntustudio-controls, i believe, which is pulled in from ubuntustudio-audio currently
<scott-work> but ubuntustudio-controls is NOT a task
<persia> Right, it's a package.
<persia> So that package would be listed in ubuntustudio/base and ubuntustudio/generating would depend on ubuntustudio/base in STRUCTURE
<persia> so germinate would track the dependency, and, if ubuntustudio/generating created a task, include ubuntustudio-controls in that task.
<scott-work> so, the STRUCTURE file would say something like:
<scott-work> audio-generating: desktop base
<persia> right.
<scott-work> audio-recording: desktop base
<scott-work> cool :)
<persia> But be careful with "desktop": we don't want to break things for users who want to install a task on another desktop (e.g. Ubuntu Desktop or Xubuntu Desktop)
<persia> They may not want some of our Desktop stuff.
<scott-work> i included "desktop" because it was already in the ubuntu studio STRUCTURE file
<persia> As an example, it's absolutely correct.  I just caution you about the specific one :)
<persia> Also, be careful with the nomenclature.  You might want something like:
<persia> generation: audio
<persia> recording: audio
<persia> Because "base" is the kind of thing that might be found in the platform seed collection.
<persia> Any other concerns?
<scott-work> not really, i feel like you have more of a handle and understanding that i, but at least i have a general direction if not all the technical specifics
<persia> Cool.  Continue to ask me questions about it as they arise :)
<scott-work> okay, thank you again
<persia> No, thank you for making this happen.  I'm more than happy to help, but I never have the time to do as much as I'd like.
 * persia often fails at even documenting how to do stuff so other folk can do them
<scott-work> i noticed that natty seeds are up: https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntustudio-dev/ubuntu-seeds/ubuntustudio.natty
<scott-work> i am presuming this means we can start making modifications to the code now :)
<rlameiro> scott-work: ping
<scott-work> hi rlameiro :)
<rlameiro> I am testing gnome shel right now
<rlameiro> using empathy....
<rlameiro> it is actually not so bad, however, i will need to test it with audio software
<scott-work> is gnome shell really gnome3 or is it something in between ?
<rlameiro> shell is something on top of gnome
<rlameiro> its a windows manager, plus toolbar replacement
<rlameiro> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1333955/CapturaEcra.png
<rlameiro> it is a little weird to find the way over here, it looks like some integration is missing
<scott-work> interesting, and a little strange :/  but i suppose all new things are like that
<scott-work> rlameiro: i see "seg out 11, etc"   i presume "out" is Octubre or October and that "seg" is Monday ?
<rlameiro> seg is a short for segunda-feira that means monday, yes
<rlameiro> I should remeber that the screnshot shows the menu/tolbar to select a file or a programm, after selecting it will maximaze and look almost like before
<scott-work> JFo: any movement on helping abogani get the -lowlatency kernel into the repositories for natty?
<paultag> hey, persia, do you play anything?
<paultag> I was just talking with a few others in -community, and I think I can find a few people who want to cover some music and CC it
<paultag> I'm pretty sure this is something ubuntu studio would be badass for
<paultag> esp. with the new site redesign etc
<ronj> TheMuso, ScottL_, I'd like to help with -lowlatency in Natty. Right now I'm in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RealTime under the table as {Packaging, Bug triage, Testing, Video Driver Testing} on Natty -lowlatency i386. Can I add myself to the official matrix with these roles?
<scott-work> ronj: absolutely!
<scott-work> i wish others would add themselves to the matrix as well :)
<scott-work> ohhh, paultag, that's a wicked good idea
 * scott-work is going home, you can get at ScottL is an hour
<ckontros> ScottL: Ng (Chris Jones) works for Canonical and should be able to give you access to the site.
<paultag> ScottL_, well real good then. I'll see if I can sketch out code that the future implementation can use. I think I've got most of it covered
<ckontros> He's also the main guy behind the Terminator terminal. #terminator
<ckontros> ScottL: As far as the release notes go, I cant remember where scochtastic (i think he handled the last ones) put them. You can and I believe should host them in the website branch on LP. Then, link to them through the site proper.
<ckontros> ScottL: Hit me up in PM if you need me.
 * holstein will audition for the ubuntustudio cover-band paultag :)
<paultag> holstein, killer! What do you play?
<holstein> well, i play bass professionally
<paultag> holstein, standing or E?
<holstein> but i can help with other stuff
<holstein> i dont have an electric bass
<paultag> Ah, awesome
<holstein> actually, i dont believe in them ;)
<paultag> Gee, thanks
<paultag> <-- E-Bass, Accordion and Keyboard / Piano 
<holstein> hehe
<paultag> I can struggle with other stuff OK, but not well enough
 * holstein is an accordian owner
<paultag> Nice! :)
<paultag> I think this is going to work out awesome
<holstein> you hear the one about the accordian player that left his accordian in his car overnight ?
<holstein> he came out, and someone had broken the window
<paultag> yeah, his window was broken in and found another one
<holstein> hehe
<paultag> heyo!
<paultag> I love that one :)
<holstein> :)
<paultag> holstein, oh you and me will get along famously
<holstein> paultag: we have tried having some multi-track session in #opensourcemusicians
<holstein> might i suggest
<holstein> you kinda pre-produce some
<paultag> "seed" it a bit?
<holstein> and give a lot of suggestion right off
<holstein> yeah
<paultag> Awesome idea
<paultag> I was thinking of a web interface, have a mixed down wav and a track "owner". You can pull the source audio file(s), throw your own in, and upload it. Then the "owner" takes it in or gives feedback
<paultag> kinda like how git works
<holstein> i mean, even assigning another producer to it even
<holstein> paultag: nice 
<holstein> sorry about all the even's
<paultag> oh not at all
<paultag> My hope is that there is as little "red tape" as can be allowed
 * holstein 's girlfriend was asking a question
<paultag> no worries :)
<paultag> just enough to stop people from defacing stuff
<holstein> ive got a mumble room too
<paultag> Oh?
<holstein> we were doing soem vitual producing
<paultag> Oh, cool idea
<holstein> bouncing ideas around
<holstein> not in real-time
<holstein> but not too much LAG
<paultag> yeah
<holstein> not enough to jam together
<paultag> I always wanted to do a jam that way
<paultag> yeah, for sure
<holstein> but enough to talk about it
 * holstein emailed about getting celt in jack-trip
<holstein> i think thats the way to go
<holstein> decent straming quality
<holstein> and record on both ends
<paultag> killer
<paultag> alright, I need to run off to work
<holstein> paultag: laterx
<paultag> holstein, let me know if you come up with some cool ideas :)
<paultag> holstein, thanks for the idea-football :)
<holstein> good-times
#ubuntustudio-devel 2010-10-12
<ScottL_> paultag, and holstein , i did something slightly like you were talking about perhaps
<ScottL_> it was for the RPM Challenge and then we did it outside of that
<ScottL_> http://blindchaos.rpmchallenge.com/
<ScottL_> any person who wanted to join could submit music and it was all mixed together at the end
<ScottL_> no one knew what the other was doing however, very interesting
<ScottL_> outside of the rpm challenge we did a round robin type of thing, a serial process
<ScottL_> one person recorded fifteen minutes and sent that to the next on the list,
<ScottL_> this person recorded fifteen minutes using the previous music to "guide" him
<ScottL_> this person only took his music and forwarded this, etc, etc
<ScottL_> http://soundcloud.com/jazzs3quence/the-room-is-full-of-stars-or-the-last-time-ill-have-to-be-ricky-blanco-for-anybody
<ScottL_> all good fun :)
<holstein> ScottL_: cool
<ScottL_> man, i don't think i've ever seen this much discussion on the -devel mailing list, on the wiki, and on the irc channel before :)
<ScottL_> it's pretty darn awesome!
<holstein> interest :)
<holstein> ScottL_: let me know if theres another one of those 
<holstein> thats public
<holstein> that sounds fun 
 * persia wonders if it anyone would be interested in writing a bzr-sex plugin, so that session-exchange diffs could be tracked in bzr in LP.
<persia> http://murraysaul.wordpress.com/2010/07/09/how-to-collaborate-on-line-part-i/ has some links
<ScottL_> one would most likely admit that the term "bzr-sex plugin" is slightly startling with it's loaded connotations ;)
<ScottL_> persia, earlier you mentioned that in the STRUCTURE file the -generating and -recording packages should depend on audio rather than base
<ScottL_> this seems a little confusing to me, wouldn't the -audio metapackage not be needed anymore
<ScottL_> and i had been meaning to ask you as well, do we just leave the -audio meta alone for now?
<ScottL_> i was going to suggest removing it, but it appears that you want it to be a dependency 
<ScottL_> .
<ScottL_> lastly, how soon can i start updating the seeds?
<ScottL_> .
<ScottL_> holstein, i've participated in the rpm challenge for the past two years, not only doing my own thing but blind chaos also
<ScottL_> you can certainly join it too, it will be in february
<persia> ScottL_, My suggestion was that common audio stuff belonged in an audio seed.  I agree that there's no reason to make a task or metapackage from that seed.  On the other hand, it's a lot easier to have a common seed for the common stuff than to try to manually maintain commonality between other seeds.
<persia> Seed changes can happen now, and will take effect as tasks within a day or so.  Changes to the metapackages require a rebuild.
<persia> Oh, and "sex" is a fairly old abbreviation from lau@ for Ardour Session Exchange
<ScottL_> lol, i knew about the session exchange acronym, but didn't make the correlation at first :P
<ScottL_> persia, sorry if i'm being dense, then we will have a metapackage for -base, -generating, and -recording
<ScottL_> in -generating and -recording we will define tasks
<ScottL_> -base will NOT define a task
<persia> Two things.  Firstly, I suggest not calling anything "base" in the ubuntustudio seed collection.  The name is too low-level, and likely to have a future conflict.
<persia> We're really talking about common audio apps between -generating and -recording.
<ScottL_> but you mentioned audio before, can we still use the -audio metapackage then?
<ScottL_> use -audio for common package?
<persia> Secondly, I can't see any reason to have a  metapackage or task for the common stuff.  The relationship between seeds and tasks and metapacakges is not one-to-one-to-one.
<persia> My suggestion was to have a common seed, named "audio", which generated no metapackage or task.
<ScottL_> oh, oh, oh, i'm confusing the seeds with metapackages
<persia> And to use STRUCTURE to ensure that the packages listed in this seed would be part of the metapackages and tasks associated with -generating and -recording.
<persia> Right.  One can turn a seed into a metapackage, but one doesn't need to do so.  Seed relationships are used to create lists of packages which then can be used for a metapackage.
<persia> One can also turn a seed into a task: the decision to do so is separate from the decision to create a metapackage, but roughly the same model applies for each of tasks or metapackages.
<paultag> ScottL_, hummm
<paultag> ScottL_, totally worth some thought, I think
<ScottL_> just to be explicit, are you suggesting that the audio seed (which historically has been used to create the metapackage ubuntustudio-audio) be used for the common audio apps
<ScottL_> but it will not create a metapackage anymore? persia
<persia> Oh, I forgot about the current use of that seed.
<persia> Yeah, we probably want to use something like "audio-common" so that we can provide a transition package for upgraders who have the "ubuntustudio-audio" metapackage installed.
<ScottL_> doh, i didn't think about upgrading, *shakes head* man, planning all this is involved
<persia> Yep.
<ScottL_> okay, all new seeds to be created, and we will want to remove ubuntustudio-audio task from cwatson's list 
<ScottL_> and i'm presuming we can just leave the -audio seed for now in the bzr code?
<persia> Um, maybe.
 * persia drafts a reference note
<persia> ScottL_, http://typewith.me/CpXbqtFUq6
<ScottL_> hey, that's cool persia, i'm watching you type :)
<persia> ScottL_, So, based on what I've started in the Natty section, do you see what I mean now?
<persia> holstein, Thoughts?
<persia> (and you're both encouraged to add more in the Natty section: I'm not sure i have a full grip on everything that belongs there)
 * holstein just catching up on what you have there
<holstein> ill have to digest that a bit
<persia> No worries.  The main thing is that I thought we'd do better at figuring out how to structure the tasks and metapackages with shared text than just IRC discussion :)
<holstein> yeah
<holstein> i like etherpad
<holstein> handy 
<ScottL_> sorry, wife got home and kids descended upon her (and therefore on me as well)
<ScottL_> looking at typewithme
<ScottL_> i noticed that "supported" is empty and you say that it must be last, is this a special file persia?
<ScottL_> i think i have a better understanding of the transition package also after reading that
<persia> It is a special file.  There's still gaps in the full impementation, but it ideally represents the set of stuff not otherwise seeded for which we declare support.
<persia> The current UIs are unable to represent support except for a crude approximation based on "main" and "universe".
<persia> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SeedManagement has more discussion
<ScottL_> eh, that made me think about doctormo and his wizardpen package, maybe paultag can help if quadrispro is going to be away for a while ;)
<ScottL_> and i tried to poke JFo today about getting the -lowlatency kernel in the archives, this i'm really nervous about making sure it happens
<ScottL_> unfortunately, this would the be second time i've tried to contact JFo about support for abogani and the kernel for natty and not received a response, hopefully just coincidental and correlation :P
<persia> Let's concentrate on the seed collection first :)
<ScottL_> i don't want to press too much into the wizardpen package or the kernel support, but i do want to keep pushing it so it doesn't loose momentum, kinda like the website stuff
<persia> Sure :)
<ScottL_> which by the way, persia and jussi, i responded to the email about the latest website mockup and asked if he could use the proper blue and come up with a dark theme as well
<persia> Right.
 * ScottL_ is unsure if either of you follow all the mail on the list
<paultag> ScottL_, where do you need me?
<ScottL_> i'm not strictly sure we do ;) but doctormo has been working on a package for wizardpen support
<ScottL_> he's been in contact with quadrispro, but i am unsure to which extent
<paultag> Ahha
<ScottL_> we, ubuntu studio, would like to support doctormo's efforts and wizardpen driver
<paultag> Well doctormo and I are great friends
<ScottL_> but he needs it packaged
<paultag> we meet up in person regularly
<paultag> Ah, rad. I can help him out
<ScottL_> outstanding!
<paultag> I'll let him know I'm here to help :)
<ScottL_> capital
<ScottL_> i'm not sure he explicitly understand that the package needs to be, well, umm...packaged and accepted into the archives before it can be included on the ubuntu studio iso
<paultag> yeah, he has a hard time understanding procedure
<paultag> ScottL_, is it something we need for N cycle?
<ScottL_> lol, i've read some of his comments on the #ubuntu-community-team channel, he's quite disparaging sometimes :P
<paultag> yeah, he really
<paultag> he really is *
<paultag> He's torn into me ( I'm on the Ubuntu LoCo Council ) on more then one instance
<ScottL_> paultag, it would be nice to get it by natty, yes - if possible, not critical but is preferred though
<paultag> OK -- ScottL_, I'm just worried about Debian freeze -- might have to get it into the Ubuntu repos then move it upstream after they release squeeze
<ScottL_> i think it's good though that someone shake things up from time to time, but he seems to take it personally though
<paultag> +1 ScottL_. He hates authority
<ScottL_> i admire his passion though
<paultag> He really is an awesome guy
<ScottL> he's one of the people that i would like to meet at an UDS one day actually, i've read many of this thoughtful blogs and i have a feeling that i already know him :P
<paultag> ScottL, yeah, he has been to almost every UDS in the past
<paultag> ScottL, he will miss this one, I think ( not sure, though )
<persia> He'll be there.
<ScottL> i had thought that i might make this one, but, alas, i shall not
<paultag> ah, thanks persia :)
<ScottL> but i have high hopes for the next one
<paultag> persia, what are the steps for getting a new package into Ubuntu for the next cycle?
<paultag> persia, just because deb is in freeze
<persia> Get two members of ~ubuntu-dev to agree it ought be uploaded and one of them to upload it.
<paultag> ah that's not too bad
<paultag> cool, thanks persia 
<persia> Similar to procedure from Debian, except that packages in Debian only need one member of ~ubuntu-dev because we trust debian as we'd trust ourselves.
<paultag> Yup. Sounds right :)
<persia> It's usually fairly trivial: the only reason it's more complicated than "just upload it" is because we all make mistakes, so we try to do peer review.
<paultag> for sure, for sure
<paultag> good thing I have lots of MOTU friends :)
<persia> ScottL, So, Are there more questions about seeds/tasks/metapackages now?  Do you still need me to be paying close attention to etherpad and the channel?
<paultag> I should really try for MOTU at some point :/
 * persia takes silence as "no"
 * persia hasn't saved the etherpad: if the contents are interesting to someone for posterity, they may want to grab a local copy
<paultag> persia, hate to keep pinging you ( I feel like I'm going to wear you thin after a while ). How hard is it to get accepted as a MOTU? I was thinking of just getting my DM upstream and then applying for MOTU after, but I feel like I won't apply for DM for a solid year or so from now at the least
<persia> Becoming a MOTU can be trivially easy or fiendishly difficult, depending on your personality, communication skills, technical skills, preexisting work in Ubuntu, etc.
<paultag> heh, good answer :/
<persia> I can't speak for anyone else, but my basic criteria when reviewing folk are as follows: 1) I've seen them interacting closely with other MOTU on work on unseeded packages, and with a QA attitude, 2) They have a reasonable number of credited uploads, some of which required some significant technical work on their own (rather than just patch management)
<paultag> persia, does Debian credit count to Ubuntu credit?
<persia> 3) There appears to be a commitment to archive quality and similar MOTU goals, and 4) they are joining MOTU as a pointless hurdle to their continued work on Ubuntu rather than because that is a goal in it's own right.
<paultag> mmm. Thanks persia. I think I'll wait another year or so. I've been around for 3, no sense in rushing things.
<persia> It's not that formal.  Work in Debian can count towards some of my criteria, and I have no idea what criteria others use, or whether work in Debian counts.  Work solely in Debian is not typically sufficient on social grounds (although it may meet technical requirements)
<persia> If you want to work with the Studio team, I'd recommend against MOTU actually.
<paultag> mmhum
<paultag> persia, Oh?
<persia> Nothing done on Studio counts for MOTU in my book (not unseeded packages)
<persia> That said, there's no reason not to try to become an Ubuntu Studio developer, which grants upload to everything seeded in Studio (except core stuff or stuff inherited from Desktop)
<paultag> Humm, cool.
<persia> Again, I can't speak for anyone else, but my criteria for that are close to my MOTU criteria, except I'm looking at integration with and support from the Studio team rather than the MOTU team, and work on Studio packages rather than unseeded packages.
<paultag> sounds quite sane to me
<paultag> thanks persia :)
<persia> No problems.  We can always use more developers, and more uploaders, and anything I can do to make you more comfortable applying to be the right sort of developer hastens the process.
<persia> (as I suspect it would be disappointing to get turned down for MOTU because all your work was only on Studio.
<paultag> heh, I don't mind about that
<ScottL> persia, i do not think you need pay attention to the channel or etherpad currently, i think the path is pretty well defined although i expect some things to arise during the process
<paultag> I really don't want to be on the MOTU muchly persia, really just so I can keep my stuff in sync with Debian
<paultag> persia, sounds great. I'll just plug away on routine work, but run it through the channels. After I feel like my changes go through with minor to no issues, I'll apply :)
<persia> ScottL, Sure.  I'm always happy to answer questions: just wanted to make sure you didn't feel we were still in the middle of a discussion before pushing that stuff off my current active stack.
<persia> paultag, strive for s/minor to// :)
<paultag> :)
<paultag> I'll make sure they're clean ;)
<scott-work> someone should adjust the topic now that maverick is released and natty is in development
<scott-work> if someone would tell me how I would be happy to do it :)
 * persia investigates the access list
<persia> jussi, Could you sort stuff?  ubuntustudio-dev looks particilarly odd.
<persia> scott-work, At least this channel is +t (you can check with /mode), so you should be able to use "/topic" to confirm the topic and "/topic foo" to set the topic to "foo".
<scott-work> persia: what part of ubuntustudio-dev looks odd?
<persia> scott-work, The ChanServ access list
<scott-work> oh, nothing i know about then
<persia> It's about permissions for this channel.  Nothing you need to worry about short-term.
<jussi> [16:43:44] [ChanServ] Flags +votiA were set on persia in #ubuntustudio-devel.
 * persia blinks at -dev vs. -devel and slaps forehead
<persia> ScottL, Try changing the topic again.
<scott-work> persia: i hadn't actually tried yet, work is commanding most of my attention at the moment
<persia> OK.  Let's see if what I did worked, just to make sure you can change in the future.
* scott-work changed the topic of #ubuntustudio-devel to: [Ubuntu Studio Development Channel | Ubuntu Studio code: https://code.launchpad.net/ubuntustudio | Maverick Meerkat released, Natty Narwhal development under way. | This Channel is logged |]
* scott-work changed the topic of #ubuntustudio-devel to: Ubuntu Studio Development Channel | Ubuntu Studio code: https://code.launchpad.net/ubuntustudio | Maverick Meerkat released, Natty Narwhal development under way. | This Channel is logged |
 * scott-work didn't like the double brackets
<persia> Excellent.  Please complain if there are /topic fights, and it can be locked again
<jussi> scott-work: please group this nick with your main nick.
<jussi> /msg nickserv group 
<jussi> for help
<jussi> /msg nickserv help group 
<scott-work> jussi: i will do that
<jussi> scott-work: when you have Ill add you to the access list here
<scott-work> jussi: i believe i just did it
<scott-work> -NickServ- Nick scott-work is now registered to your account.
<jussi> [17:26:11] [ChanServ] Flags +votiA were set on ScottL_ in #ubuntustudio-devel.
<scott-work> jussi: was that suppossed to be ScottL_ ?  with the underscore?
<jussi> scott-work: your account name is ScottL_
<persia> You may be able to convince NickServ to change your account name, but that may require some fiddling.
<scott-work> oh, i dont' really care, just surprised but i think i know what i did
<scott-work> i think ScottL is ScottL and i registered scott-work as ScottL_
<persia> You might want to combine them at some point.
<scott-work> how complicated is that? and will this grossly affect what jussi did?
<persia> ChanServ ought cope.
<paultag> yeah, if you nick to ScottL and ident, then /ns group scottl_ it should work OK
<paultag> scott-work / scottl_ was registered 52 minutes ago, so you can always ungroup and regroup, but chanserv would drop the flags
<scott-work> thanks paultag, going to try something also
<scott-work> abogani: the realtime kernel wiki is filling up nicely, the matrix is getting quite full :)
<scott-work> for those interested, the october team report has been started https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/TeamReports
<scott-work> jussi or persia: do you have any experience with Ng?  I am trying to contact him about getting access to the ubuntustudio.org website (per cory) and am waiting a repsonse from him, should i expect to wait long perhaps?
<jussi> #canonical-sysadmin is your best bet, as well as email'
<scott-work> thanks jussi, i'll try those as well
<jussi> oh and scott-work, be patient ;)
<scott-work> jussi: right, i had already pinged Ng about it, I'll let it wait until the end of the day and then i'll send an email to rt@ubuntu.com then
<jussi> scott-work: send the email now, then they have it in the tracker. then ping them tomorrow.
<scott-work> jussi: roger that
<scott-work> paultag:  have you talked to doctormo about the wizardpen driver yet?
<scott-work> i'm curious to how he responds about getting the package into the archives
<paultag> scott-work, yeah, I did -- he's not pung me back
<paultag> scott-work, I'll give him another poke
<scott-work> LOL, you poked him all right
<paultag> heh
<paultag> scott-work, What do you think?
<scott-work> paultag: i don't know at this point, my brain is too fried from work and other studio priorities :/
<paultag> No worries, thanks scott-work 
<scott-work> maybe persia has a suggestion - doctormo says that his wizardpen driver doesn't work in maverick (only in lucid) because of the xorg update, he needs programmers and someone to test
<scott-work> i'd be happy to buy a tablet to test if someone volunteered to work on the code
<paultag> Ah
<paultag> scott-work, doc-mo says there might be a driver that translates wizardpen to wacom
<paultag> and that would be awesome ( and stable, I think )
<scott-work> oh, ah...yes, i was hoping we could use his package in the interim between when something gets stable and finally included in the kernel
<scott-work> but thank you, paultag, for looking into it though
<paultag> scott-work, of course
<paultag> I'm here to help, it would be shady for me to turn down such a clear-cut task with someone I already know :)
<scott-work> well, i'm left sad because it seems like we will not be able to make this happen :(
<scott-work> but it is what it is
<scott-work> paultag: i saw you were thinking about doing something for the FCS at the UDS about US
<scott-work> paultag: what sort of thing were you thinking about doing?
<paultag> scott-work, I saw on the website mockup that there was a music player for user generated content
<paultag> scott-work, if there is going to be a player, there better be a place to put that stuff ;)
<scott-work> yes :)
<paultag> scott-work, so I was thinking of mocking up something simple, then giving it over to the guys doing the ubuntun free culture stuff
<scott-work> when detrate` was working on a new website based on wordpress he felt extremely confident about putting that in
<paultag> and eventually if it goes well, just have a studio tag or something. Not too clue yet
<paultag> awesome :)
<scott-work> paultag: that sounds extremely cool :)
<paultag> scott-work, I was going to get it mocked up and demo-able
<paultag> scott-work, then present it for revisions etc, don't worry I am not a loose cannon :)
<scott-work> oh no, wasn't worried about that, was curious and enthusiastic about what i read :)
<paultag> scott-work, cool :)
<paultag> scott-work, I did something similar with documents a while ago. I think I might be able to kinda "merge" the two
<scott-work> paultag: here's a video i did with blender, just about four hours work, done with all ubuntu studio - http://vimeo.com/14034958
<paultag> kickass!
<paultag> playing now :)
<scott-work> wait till the other one of me shows up ;)
<paultag> Oh, I'm there :)
<scott-work> they're both first takes, just improvising, the whole purpose was to green screen and composite the other "me" into the video
<paultag> for sure
<paultag> scott-work, Oh, and something I was thinking about -- posting half made "sketches", and then letting people take them down and post them back with another track 
<scott-work> that's similar to what i had thought before
<paultag> Yeah, I think we were talking about this :)
<paultag> scott-work, cute kid :)
<scott-work> this is different, from a long time ago - my idea was more of a "riff bank" where you post something when you can't work it further and let other people see what they can do
<scott-work> thanks
<scott-work> maybe they post it back with some changes, maybe they finish a song with it
<scott-work> paultag: this could work with whole songs, maybe someone writes good riffs but doesn't do vocals or leads
<scott-work> someone could surf through songs, find one that strikes them, and then add vocals or lead to it
#ubuntustudio-devel 2010-10-13
<abogani> ScottL: Yes the matrix is really nice now.
<abogani> TheMuso: Are you around?
<scott-work> abogani: yes, the kernel matrix filling up is nice, HOWEVER, i am very, very startled that few people are signing up for -realtime kernel testing, support, triage, etc :(
<scott-work> especially for lucid
<scott-work> especially since we dropped support for the maverick -realtime kernel :?
<scott-work> oh, my bad, there is some support there in testing, i was looking at the -lowlatency, but it's still pretty sparce compared to the natty stuff though
<scott-work> abogani: i'm wondering if we shouldn't really should break the kernel testing into two teams, one for -lowlatency and the other for -realtime
<scott-work> abogani: we could hopefully focus the people with firewire audio interfaces into the -realtime kernel testing since they would be the ones to need it most likely
<abogani> scott-work: I don't have opinion about that. In any case if you think that could help please write an email to ml and hear replies.
<scott-work> abogani: let me think about it more, if i can develop what i believe to be a clear, definitive, and hopefully useful path then i'll mail the list
<falktx> hi there
<falktx> is the development for 11.04 already started?
<falktx> I see that 'natty' is now available for PPAs...
<astraljava> Looks like the archive is there.
<scott-work> persia: i believe we will need to update the update.cfg file from ubuntustudio-meta as well to include the new seed files: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntustudio-dev/ubuntustudio-meta/UbuntuStudio/annotate/head%3A/update.cfg
<scott-work> persia: and shouldn't we moderate the 'dist: gusty'  as well ?
<scott-work> abogani: i noticed that you changed the -rt kernels to -realtime, which implies that they will be based on the vanilla kernel source tree, i.e. not a ubuntu kernel
<scott-work> abogani: is this correct?  we will be providing a non-ubuntu -realtime kernel ?
<TheMuso> abogani: I am now, but only for a short while.
<scott-work> TheMuso: if we add seeds as previously discussed, i believe we will need to update the update.cfg file in the ubuntustudio-meta.  Is this correct?
<scott-work> i'm going hope but do not let that stop you from asnwering ;)   I'll catch the answer on my home account
<ScottL> errr that should have been "I'm going home"
#ubuntustudio-devel 2010-10-14
<persia> ScottL, Indeed.  We'll have to modify a few things in the metapackage source as we modify the seeds.
<persia> In the etherpad summary which I'm hoping you are using to flesh things out, the seeds: line in update.cfg is one of the entries.
<ScottL> persia, i did save the etherpad summary and i am using it to flesh things out, along with various conversations you and luke have had with me ;)
<TheMuso> ScottL: Yes thats right
<TheMuso> You will need to update the update.cfg file to switch to natty
<persia> OK.  Just wanted to make sure, because that had a couple sections that were directly tracking stuff in the metapackage source :)
<abogani> ScottL: Exactly: _vanilla_ based realtime kernel not _ubuntu_ based realtime kernel.
<abogani> TheMuso: Very simple question: Is there a way to don't specify distribution release (3rd field in debian/changelog) to let package be distribution agnostic? I would want avoid to copy packages over and over into our PPA only changing distribution version.
<TheMuso> abogani: For PPAs, I don't believe that is possible, you could ask in #launchpad to be sure.
<abogani> TheMuso: I'm already googled and I have also check Debian manuals but I don;t see nothing useful
<TheMuso> There has to be a distro release target for the upload.
<abogani> TheMuso: Ok. Thanks Luke.
<TheMuso> No problem.
<persia> If one hosts them somewhere else (e.g. people.ubuntu.com) and compiles them oneself, one can use non-release strings.
<persia> Mind you, keeping indices up-to-date and the like might be tricky.
<abogani> ScottL: Could you say me if my last in devel ml email is understandable, please?
<abogani> ScottL: Thanks in adance.
<jussi01_> abogani: are you going to uds?
<abogani> jussi01_: No.
<jussi01_> :(
<abogani> jussi01_: Why?
 * abogani isn't be able to sustain an English conversation.
<persia> You do fine in IRC.
<jussi> yes, I agree, you do just fine.
<abogani> Please guys for one time believe in me
 * abogani goes to drink coffe
<persia> I don't disbelieve you.  Speech and writing are different in *so* many ways, especially writing on the internet.
<persia> I'm just saying you seem close with the writing, so the speech oughtn't be too far away.
<abogani> ScottL: Could you say me if my last in devel ml email is understandable, please?
<TheMuso> abogani: I'd say he is in bed at this point.
<astraljava> yeah, it's 3:50 am where he's at... :D
<abogani> Ops :-)
<astraljava> abogani: But if you're talking about the advice on working with closed drivers, then I would say it's coherent. :)
<abogani> astraljava: Exactly. Thanks.
<quadrispro> hi guys! I'm back
<persia> hey.  Welcome back.
<quadrispro> persia, I have a lot of work to do
<persia> Always :)
<quadrispro> eh eh, work is never over
<astraljava> Hi there Alessio!
<quadrispro> hi astraljava 
<quadrispro> ScottL, http://packages.qa.debian.org/n/naspro-core.html
<quadrispro> ScottL, :) waiting for permafrost and naspro-bridges-bad now
<ScottL> hi quadrispro , i hope you had a good vacation and welcome back :)
<quadrispro> ScottL, I had great holidays, I really love London
<ScottL> :)
<ScottL> never been to the UK although I hope to go sometime
<quadrispro> ScottL, wah-plugins has been accepted in unstable -> http://packages.qa.debian.org/w/wah-plugins.html
<ScottL> awestome, quadrispro!
<ScottL> now if debain would just release then i would feel better about being able to get packages into ubuntu ;)
<ScottL> but seriously, quadrispro, paultag has been hanging around also and looking to package stuff as well, i pointed in at REVU (tag ubuntustudio)
<ScottL> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/tag/ubuntustudio
<ScottL> to see if we couldn't get some movement on those packages
<ScottL> i am presuming it would be quicker to get them into debian and then we can archive the package in REVU then
<persia> Not necessarily quicker: roughly the same process (two developers look at it)
<persia> But better long-term.
<persia> Actually, with the squeeze freeze, and ftp-masters being intentionally slow about NEW, might be faster to get stuff into Ubuntu, but harder to maintain it that way.
<quadrispro> yes, it is so
<quadrispro> however, I'll have a look ASAP, now I'm very busy with fixing bugs on my packages to let them enter squeeze
<persia> That's more important, really.  Getting squeeze released (and bugfixes in) helps our natty more than other things.
<ScottL> :)
<abogani> http://www.linuxjournal.com/content/linux-audio-update-fall-fashions?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+linuxjournalcom+%28Linux+Journal+-+The+Original+Magazine+of+the+Linux+Community%29&utm_content=Google+International
<persia> heh.  We get mentioned for our spring release under the headline "fall fashions" :)
<scott-work> abogani: i just read the backscroll (well, irc logs) and saw your question - i second astraljava's comment, your english is perfectly understandable (although some of the technicalities were beyond my understanding at this point)
 * scott-work is very ignorant about much of the close drivers
<abogani> scott-work: Thanks.
<scott-work> abogani: you are welcome :)  i'm glad to help anytime you need it
<scott-work> jussi01: pinged Ng today, no answer yet, but i left him the ticket link - https://rt.ubuntu.com/Ticket/Display.html?id=15226
<scott-work> jussi01: should i back off for a couple of days now ?
<persia> ScottL, Might be worth not just asking Ng, but rather asking open-ended questions on #canonical-sysadmin (there are a few of them, of which Ng is one).
<persia> But it's important not to ask too much/too often, or they'll just ignore you.
<ScottL> persia, i will wait another couple of days and then ask again on #canonical-sysadmin, but not focus on Ng this time
#ubuntustudio-devel 2010-10-15
<persia> I'd probably ask once a day or so, trying for staggered random time (something like every 29 hours or similar)
<persia> But no point asking on weekends.
<TheMuso> Natty is open.
<persia> Oh, indeed.  Nice.
<ScottL> persia, TheMuso, i hope to make changes to the seeds tomorrow during the day, unless you have an objection
<ScottL> i probably will not push them for a couple of days until i review my changes a few times
<TheMuso> ScottL: You have a few months to make your changes, so go right ahead.
<ScottL> TheMuso, well, my goal would be to have them completed (more or less) before the first alpha image
<TheMuso> Right.
<ScottL> just for my edification, even if i do not run ./update will the ISOs build if i push the changes to the seeds ?
<TheMuso> Yes, but depending on what changes you make, the builds may not update until you have updated the metapackage.
<ScottL> hmmm, i'm still working my mind around all of this so i'll have to think through that a little before i understand it
<TheMuso> Ok.
<TheMuso> What changes are you wanting to make?
 * ScottL was making dinner for the kids
<ScottL> TheMuso, i hope to add the new seeds, make the metapackages, make a transition package for ubuntustudio-audio
<TheMuso> Oh right./
<ScottL> i'm hoping to write down my methodology and have you and persia look over it, to make sure i'm not going to do something stupid
<ScottL> the goal was to start writing it down tonight and complete it tomorrow during the day
<TheMuso> Right.
<ScottL> i'll spend the better time of tomorrow evening working locally to change and create the seeds files
<TheMuso> If you are unsure about the bzr changes you are making, feel free to create another branch, and request a merge proposal.
<ScottL> last time you and i worked on the seeds, that is what we did i believe
<persia> And if it doesn't block you terribly long, I'd recommend sharing an update to the etherpad with the plan prior to fussing about the seed contents.
<persia> Trying to discuss seed structure and seed contents at the same time can be confusing.
<TheMuso> Yep.
<ScottL> persia, i will work whatever plan is best and most comforting as required :)
 * persia has no requirements, only suggestions :)
<ScottL> persia, i mentioned earlier that tonight and during the day i was planning on writing down the steps i plan to take (with headings) and having you and luke look over them
<persia> OK :)
<ScottL> part of that is to make sure i'm not doing something stupid, but also to help me frame the process
<ScottL> if i can write it down in an organized form it well help me place it all together cohesively in my mind
<ScottL> plus any correction i get from either of you should help as well ;)
<amanthethy> Hey, where can I grab an iso of 10.10? The Ubuntu Studio website only shows 10.04
<persia> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntustudio/releases/maverick/release/
<persia> We're having a transition in the website team, and the timing unfortunately hit us badly.
<amanthethy> sweeet. Is there any susbstantial changes from 10.04?
<amanthethy> are*
<poine> hello world - what is the lowlatency or realtime kernel to use ? it seems that 2.6.35-20-lowlatency is in the repo but the headers are 2.6.35-22 which prevents me from being able to use the nvidia driver
<persia> poine, I'm of the opinion that most folk don't need either.
<poine> i just want to do some audio recording with low latency. What do you suggest ?  I was using -rt kernel on lucid
<persia> I use the regular kernel.  Works for me.
<persia> You only need the -lowlatency or -realtime ones if you're really pushing your hardware.
<persia> You might need it, depends on what you're recording, how, and what hardware you have.
<poine> i just want to use superlooper on my macbookpro with the internal soundcard
<persia> You probably don't need it then.
<persia> If you start getting odd clicks and pops, or interruptions, etc. then maybe you might, but not likely for 2-channel all-on-board.
<poine> i get xruns with 6ms latency
<persia> (but #ubuntustudio is probably a better channel for this sort of discussion: not very development related)
<persia> Do you need 6ms?
<poine> (sorry, switching to that channel, my first time here, I had no idea )
<persia> No worries, or I'd have been firmer :)
<diwic> ScottL, ping
<persia> scott-work, ^^
<scott-work> diwic: hello, yes?
<diwic> scott-work, aha, I just sent an email to you instead :-)
<diwic> scott-work, I was curious about your thoughts about my blueprint
<scott-work> diwic: i am actually about to leave work to go home, in about 30 minutes i will be on IRC again as ScottL
<diwic> scott-work, ok :-) No problem, I'll be around for another hour or so.
 * scott-work is will be hosting an Open Week class pretty soon https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek
<scott-work> but if nothing else i will respond to your email :)
<scott-work> bye
<ScottL> #ubuntu-classroom-chat
<ScottL> #ubuntu-classroom-backstage
<falktx> hi ScottL
<ScottL> hi falktx 
<falktx> has anything being decided about Natty PPAs?
<ScottL> i guess you mean if we have one and what would be included in it?
<ScottL> to be honest, not yet
<ScottL> i'm hoping to update the seeds this weekend first, and it's taking up most of my focus currently
<falktx> when is alpha1 coming out?
<ScottL> !schedule
<ubottu> Ubuntu releases a new version every 6 months. Each version is supported for 18 months to 5 years. More info at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Releases & http://wiki.ubuntu.com/TimeBasedReleases
<ScottL> eh, hold on
<persia> diwic, Are you still about?  What did you want to ask ScottL about?
<ScottL> falktx, alpha is dec 2nd  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NattyReleaseSchedule
<falktx> ScottL: so we still have time
<falktx> hehe
<ScottL> persia, we spoke briefly before i left work, he emailed me and i told him i'd email him back
<persia> Ah, OK.
<persia> I thought it might have been something about JACK/FFADO, and didn't want it lost :)
<ScottL> falktx, keep in mind, the ppa cannot be used in any way to build an official ubuntu studio ISO
<ScottL> so we can always add the ppa at any point
<falktx> ScottL: what about a welcome screen?
<diwic> persia, it does, although I'll let ScottL prepare for his talk now :-)
<falktx> ScottL: also I now have a non-free repo for apps like renoise, pianoteq, and vst plugins
<ScottL> persia, i have looked at the blueprint previously, although briefly, and wanted to look again with more depth, i probably will need either your assistance or luke's later though
<persia> ok
<persia> I'm in favour, for what it's worth, although there's lots of detail to be added.
<ScottL> i need to reread it again because i really cannot remember the thrust of it currently, i'm getting sick, updating the seeds in running rampant through my head, and now i've got an open week class in 22 minutes :?
<ScottL> er.. :/
<ScottL> i'm really not expecting too many people in the class (which is okay, because my preparations are terrible)
<persia> Don't worry: if you don't have enough content, folks will ask questions.
<falktx> AutoStatic agrees on an official UbuntuStudio PPA - http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=9977038&postcount=435
<persia> Why?  Why not just upload to the regular repositories?
<falktx> if it's official, more ppl will use it
<persia> If it's the regular repository, even more people will use it.
<falktx> some ppl dont like my PPA cause it's not official (maybe they dont trust me...)
<falktx> but, perhaps if it's maintained by a team...
<persia> Sure, but I don't see what that means there should be a studio PPA, when there's an entire archive.
<falktx> yep
<persia> So it makes sense to you not to have an official PPA, and instead just update the archive?
<falktx> it makes sense to me using PPAs
<persia> Why PPA vs. the archive?
<falktx> i mean, 'official' is a strong worg
<persia> Sure, but the archives are already official, and mirrored in almost every country.
<paultag> persia, mind if I PM you for a quick second?
<persia> paultag, No.
<paultag> cheers
<falktx> i know ubuntu wont change its policy for updating the archive after it has been frozen
<persia> falktx, Sure, but we can update everything for the next release.
<persia> How much of what you want to update in maverick now was ready a month ago?
<persia> Also, we can do backports for anything we like, as long as we can get 2 testers.
<persia> So we *can* update the archive (for users who enable backports)
<falktx> i dont want to wait 6 months for an update...
<falktx> oh, that is different
<falktx> didnt knew that
<persia> !backports
<ubottu> If new updated Ubuntu packages are built for an application, then they may go into Ubuntu Backports. See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuBackports - See also !packaging
<persia> The only requirement is that we get them into the future release before we backport them.
<persia> But that's not usually that hard.
<falktx> persia: basically if, for example, we wanted to port dssi-1.1.0 to maverick and 2 guys say it's working, then it will be backported?
<falktx> (my internet is going slow...)
<falktx> hm... i should get into the debian multimedia asap
<persia> We'd have to get it uploaded in natty first, and then it would have to compile on maverick, but yeah.
<persia> Oh yeah.  That's the best: push to debian-multimedia, sync to release+1, backport.
<falktx> anyway, a ppa would help to get updates faster
<falktx> so like this: ppa -> debian-multimedia -> natty -> (backports)
<persia> Why?
<persia> ppa -> debian-multimedia requires changing the source (debian/control)
<persia> Easier just debian-multimedia -> natty -> backports
<persia> But nothing wrong with ppa -> d-m -> natty -> backports if you find it easier.
<persia> Err, changing debian/changelog (sorry)
<falktx_> damn just went offline..
<falktx_> who's here is a motu or debian packager?
<falktx_> i know quadispro is from debian multimedia
<persia> quadrispro is also able to upload to Ubuntu, as am I, and a couple other folks.
<persia> For that matter, if you upload to Ubuntu regularly for all of natty, and demonstrate good practices and bugfixes, I'm sure you could get upload permission, at least to Studio packages.
<falktx_> that's very cool
<falktx_> i started packaging for Revu some time ago, but the process is very slow
<persia> Yeah, you came at our worst time, I think.
<falktx_> hehe
<persia> We were between leaders and running out of developers.
<persia> Things are much better now: it's still not really fast, but it's better.
<falktx_> but I guess debian would be better than REVU, right?
<persia> And if you are up for getting involved in debian-multimedia, it's that much faster, because you can get reviews there, and then get stuff sync'd.
<falktx_> ok
<falktx_> is there a debian-multimedia IRC?
 * falktx_ searchs...
<persia> For two reasons: the social reason is that more folk use Debian and distributions based on Debian than use Ubuntu and distributions based on Ubuntu.
<persia> #debian-multimedia @ OFTC
<falktx> nope
<falktx> ah, different server
<persia> And the technical reason being that more developers who know about multimedia stuff are involved in debian-multimedia, so you get better comments and reviews.
<falktx> cool
<falktx> persia: one thing I will do is a new unstable PPA for natty
<falktx> ardour30, blender25, etc
<persia> Sure, I'd expect that.
<persia> We mostly only want stable stuff on the debian-multimedia -> natty -> backports route.
<falktx> yep
<astraljava> Good session, ScottL! :)
<ScottL> thanks astraljava :)
<astraljava> Looked to me that you were well prepared.
<ScottL> heh, not really, just a few bullet points on paper five minutes before the class, and the rest in my head :P
<astraljava> You've got a decent head on your shoulders. :D
<ScottL> thanks :)
<ScottL> some of the pauses were because i was thinking about how i wanted t approach a topic
<astraljava> Didn't seem to break the flow, to me at least.
<ScottL> that's good :)
<ScottL> and i'm thankful to charlie-tca as well for asking questions
<astraljava> That was nice.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2010-10-16
<ScottL> persia, TheMuso: here's what i have for the seeds update (and a little more) - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/Sandbox#Seeds%20Update
<ScottL> i think that audio-common needs to be a package so that if users apt-get install either ubuntustudio-generation or ubuntustudio-recording 
<ScottL> then audio-common will pull in as a dependency
<ScottL> one thing that i'm unsure about is if audio-common can be a metapackage without being a task
<ScottL> i am assuming that it can
<persia> Why?  Why not just have ubuntustudio-generation and ubuntustudio-recording pull in all the packages in ubuntustudio-audio-common?
<persia> It can.
<ScottL> because i'm ignorant and still working my way through all of this :P
<persia> s/ignorant/still learning/ :)
<ScottL> okay, where would you set it to pull all the packages, in the control file?
<persia> You wouldn't.
<persia> Do you still have that etherpad text handy?  Could you toss it up somewhere?  Let's go through it.
<ScottL> well, yes, persia, i generally do not use the term ignorant in a derogatory manner
<ScottL> yes, but i am extremely pressed for time, wife, kids and i are going out to the lake for picnic and fishing and whatever else is available :)
<persia> Ah, OK.  I've sadly heard it used that way too much in the past.  My apologies.
<persia> Have fun then.  Let's look at it another time.
<ScottL> no apologies needed
<ScottL> here is a new etherpad with your notes: http://typewith.me/vUpaZVtuLq
<ScottL> please feel free to make updates, leave notes here in IRC...i'll review it when i get back
<ScottL> oh, and feel free to review and make any changes to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/Sandbox#Seeds%20Update
<persia> No, it's the discussion that would be useful.  Have a good day in the park.  I'll probably be around again starting somewhere between 22:00 and 0:00 UTC, and we can look at it after that.
<persia> (as I expect you'll be out having fun at least that long)
<ScottL> okay
<ScottL> i can say that typing it up has helped my understanding, at least compartmentalizing many of the parts
<persia> I bet.  It looks like you're 90% of the way towards having a good feeling about what you want to do.
<ScottL> i also still need to reconcile the new packaging list with the workflows to make sure all applications are accounted for
<ScottL> i know i added a "home dvd" authoring workflow that i haven't added to the packaging list
<ScottL> which segues into, how do you feel about adding qdvdauthor ?
<ScottL> i guess since we have qjackctl it shouldn't be added any additional libraries, no?
<ScottL> i;m heading out now :)
<holstein> ScottL: i know we talked about this before
<holstein> but if the mailing list is a gauge
<holstein> i think we might be actually ready for some IRC team meetings
<holstein> that folks might actually show up for
<paultag> I'll be here :)
<holstein> :)
#ubuntustudio-devel 2010-10-17
<medvind> hi. I've noticed there is no realtime kernel in the repositories for Maverick. is this because the realtime capabilities have been integrated into the generic kernel?
<ScottL> persia, sorry for the delay, are you available to continue the seeds discussion?
<ScottL> also, for those interested, new website mock-ups, including the correct blue for persia and a dark theme for jussi ;)
<ScottL> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/TaskWebRevamp#Audio%20Horizons%20v2
<ScottL> scroll down a bit for the dark theme
<persia> And now I know why I woke up to early today :)
<persia> s/to/so/
<ScottL> for our discussion? or the website? or something else?
<persia> For our discussion, I think.
<ScottL> that sounds good to me
<ScottL> are you ready to talk about the seeds now?
<persia> Sure.
<persia> So, I just checked, and http://typewith.me/vUpaZVtuLq is still full of content
<ScottL> i'm sorry, were you expecting me to moderate the contents?
<persia> No, but etherpad times out after a while sometimes, and needs to be repopulated, if nobody is looking at it.
<persia> I believe that document to embed three significant things:
<persia> 1) An outline of how seeds, tasks, and metapackages are defined and interrelate
<persia> 2) documentation of the structure of the seeds, tasks, and metapackages for maverick
<persia> 3) a template to use to define the structure for natty
<ScottL> and one thing you took exception to was my assertion that audio-common needed to be a metapackage
<ScottL> my concern was a user who used a vanilla ubuntu install might apt-get install ubuntustudio-generation
<persia> Sure.
<persia> So, look at maverick.  Look at "desktop-common"
<persia> Notice that it's not either a task or a metapackage.
<persia> Also notice that the contents are part of ubuntustudio-desktop task and metapackage, without being explictly in that seed.
<ScottL> sorry, getting kids settled again
<persia> no worries
<ScottL> okay, i see that desktop-common is not a metapackage or task
<ScottL> i see desktop: desktop common in the STRUCTURE file
<ScottL> but do i need to worry how a user would get desktop-common if they were were installing ubuntustudio-desktop
<persia> s/worry/understand/
<ScottL> yes, i would like to understand :)
<ScottL> i almost *always* want to understand
<persia> So, because STRUCTURE declares that desktop depends on desktop-common, every task or metapackage generated from the desktop seed will include everything from the desktop-common seed.
<ScottL> hmmm, is this analogous to Depends: in /debian/control ?
<persia> No.
<persia> It's more like file inclusion in a number of programming languages.
<ScottL> i reread your statement again, it will include everything with it
<persia> So that the content of the desktop-common seed is added to the content of the desktop seed for purposes of generating tasks and metapackages.
<ScottL> not that it depends on it so it will need to be installed as well
<ScottL> it will already be there
<ScottL>  
<persia> Right.
<ScottL> SO, when a vanilla ubuntu user wants to install ubuntustudio-desktop
<ScottL> it will also be installing ubuntustudio-desktop-common because -desktop-common will be included in -desktop
<persia> Rather, it will also be installing the contents of the ubuntustudio/desktop-common seed, but essentially, yeah.
<ScottL> okay, so audio-common does NOT need to be a metapackage or task, right
<persia> That's my opinion.
<ScottL> it shall be done
<ScottL> any other critiques of the plan?
<persia> I hadn't prepared a critique: I more imagined we'd go over what was in etherpad, and flesh out the natty bits to match what you seek to accomplish.
<persia> I can prepare a critique if you'd prefer.
<ScottL> i think i had more or less had things in the link i posted earlier pretty well fleshed out addressing the etherpad contents
<ScottL> my only concern at the time was the audio-common issue which we addressed
<ScottL> but of course, just because i'm not concerned with it doesn't mean i'm not doing something wrong ;)
<persia> OK.  I guess my main concern with https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/Sandbox#Seeds%20Update is that I wasn't sure there was a clear picture of the end-state.
<ScottL> i'm not sure what you mean by "end-state"
<persia> What it looks like after all the modifications.
<persia> Might just be different ways of thinking about things.  I tend to think about how it is and how it should be, rather than how it is and how it should be changed.
<persia> But nothing leaps out at me about your modification procedure, and if you've no other questions about the contents of the etherpad, we might be good.
<ScottL> sorry, once again, the kids are acting up
<ScottL> this weekend started beautifully and very enjoyably with our picnic by the lake and denigrated shortly after our return :(
<ScottL> to summarize the modification or the end-state:
<ScottL> 1. the video and graphics remain structurally unchanged, just fewer packages in the seeds
<ScottL> 2. audio will be dropped, but a transitional package will be included in the /debain/control file that Depends: ubuntustudio-generation ubuntustudio-recording
<ScottL> 3. generation and recording seeds will be new
<ScottL> 4. STRUCTURAL file will eliminate audio but add generation: audio-common and recording: audio-common
<ScottL> that at least is the thrust as i am able to focus and remember it at this time
<persia> That's a clear summary of the modifications, and matches what you've put in the sandbox.
<persia> Doesn't really summarise the result, but that's fine: I think we think differently about these sorts of things, and I'm not going to make you think the way I think just because I think that way.
<ScottL> oh, i think the end-state is that the user will select between the generation and recording tasks for audio packages during installation
<ScottL> each of those will include audio-common
<ScottL> video and graphic remain virtually identical for installation purposes
<persia> Oh, sure.  It's the entirety of the end state that isn't documented.  Really, don't worry about it.
<persia> When you get through the procedure, let me know, and I'll look at the results :)
<ScottL> good deal
#ubuntustudio-devel 2011-10-10
<falktx> scott-work: ping
<scott-work> hi falktx 
<falktx> scott-work: hey, US is coming up shortly
<falktx> sorry I didn't had the time to do more
<falktx> we're all busy this cycle...
<falktx> scott-work: I'll keep my promise and try to make a LiveDVD
<scott-work> falktx: i'll be testing the latest QA image tonight, i'll see what state it's in then ;)
<scott-work> everybody has been busy this cycle
<scott-work> *shrug* unfortunate, but that is that state of being
<falktx> I'm kinda sad for US...
<scott-work> falktx: why?
<falktx> because this is not a solid release
<scott-work> i think next release will be madness!  (in a good way)
<falktx> yeah!
<scott-work> falktx: but unsolid releases happen for a variety of reasons
<scott-work> intrepid comes to mind
<scott-work> but i'm starting to shrug off some of my work constraints and will finish developing a plan for P-release
<falktx> 12.04 development should start ASAP
<falktx> I'll try my best to get the cadence tools working, and pushed to debian
<falktx> maybe also festige, it can be useful...
<falktx> I wish I knew more about the Ubuntu internals
<scott-work> knome: i have some time this afternoon if you want to continue our previous discussion
<charlie-tca> testing this week for final release. Images are on the iso tracker at http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/
<scott-work> ugh...another build again
#ubuntustudio-devel 2011-10-11
<jussi> scott-work_: ping
<scott-work_> jussi: pong
#ubuntustudio-devel 2011-10-12
<charlie-tca> scott-work: running ubuntustudio 64 tests
<charlie-tca> Waiting for desktop images again, so I seem to have time
<scott-work> charlie-tca: i wanted to tell you thank you for all you are doing and have done recently for ubuntu studio
<scott-work> the ubuntu studio team really hasn't been functioning for the past several months
<charlie-tca> You are welcome. It's minor, when I can help, I try to.
<charlie-tca> I know that issues trying to get the team working, sometimes it can be difficult when we are all volunteers.
<scott-work> however, i think i feel a change in the wind, says i
<scott-work> charlie-tca: i'm going to UDS and i really am going to try to make a case to mark/jono/whoever about getting a dev at least part time to help
<charlie-tca> Good luck. 
<charlie-tca> Let's at least see if we can meet in person there. I will be there
<scott-work> cool!  i need to start making a list of the people i want to see
<charlie-tca> yup, it gets to be a bit of a pile up, real quick.
<falktx> wow
<falktx> my lightdm theme never made it into the repos??
<scott-work> i'm guessing we don't need to retest the ubuntu studio alternate images
<scott-work> this is based on the latest email about rebuilding (yet again) desktop images
<charlie-tca> right
<charlie-tca> I finished the studio 64bit image, and am now working on the 386 to finish those tests
<scott-work> thank you again charlie-tca 
<charlie-tca> no problem
#ubuntustudio-devel 2011-10-13
<scott-work> persia: TheMuso jussi : i am going to UDS this year, i hope to see you there
 * scott-work is adding you to a list of people i want to make sure i meet
<jussi> scott-work: sorry, wont be there :(
<falktx> btw, where is the UDS hosted?
<falktx> united states?
<jussi> falktx: In Florida this time
<scott-work> falktx: i think it alternates, one in the us, the next in europe
<jussi> scott-work: nah, the next will also be in the states afaik (accordign to some rumours)
<scott-work> oh, interesting
<scott-work> i wonder if it will be dallas again, that's three hours from me
<falktx> too far away for me
<falktx> scott-work: jussi: does ubuntu sponsors the travellers?
<jussi> falktx: many of them
<jussi> Ive been sponsored 4 times...
<falktx> really?
<falktx> wow, I would love that
<jussi> falktx: really really
<scott-work> i'm still curious who nominated me for sponsorship
<falktx> but I don't think I'm that important to ubuntu...
<jussi> falktx: I suggest you contribute lots, and explain what you have done and want to do on the sponsor ship form
<jussi> scott-work: you get auto nominated because you are leader of an official derivative iirc
<scott-work> oh, that's kinda disappointing then, i wanted to think someone secretly nominated me ;)
<jussi> hehe
<falktx> found the page
<falktx> http://uds.ubuntu.com/participate/sponsorship/
<jussi> ;)
<falktx> "We are not currently accepting sponsorship applications for uds-p in Orlando, FL, USA. Please check back again later!"
<falktx> :(
<jussi> falktx: yeah, sponsorship for this one is all done and set
<jussi> toull have to wait for the next one. 
<falktx> I'll try my best to get into LAC this year though
<falktx> err, 2012 I mean
<knome> anybody know the email for scott?
<knome> or, maybe i should just wait him to get back to irc.
<scott-work> eh, webchat.freenode.net dropped me
<knome> hey scott-work 
<scott-work> for what it is worth, here is the link for ubuntu studio 11.10 download:  http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntustudio/releases/oneiric/release/
<scott-work> hi knome  :)
<scott-work> how are you doing?
<knome> fine, but a bit busy with work :)
<knome> did you see the new tab-style?
<scott-work> aye, i understand about work :9
<scott-work> :(
<knome> should get a bit better soon
<scott-work> i remember it, but would appreciate a link again if you have i handy
<knome> just a sec
<scott-work> oh, i'm starting to see the light at the end of this tunnel
<scott-work> of course it could just be a train ;)
<knome> http://temp.knome.fi/ubuntustudio/www/
<knome> hehe
<scott-work> hey, that looks really good :)
<knome> good to herar
<knome> hear
<knome> is that something you were after when you said something about preserving space?
<scott-work> yes it is, much better than before :)
<knome> good
<knome> it's also much better extend-wise
<knome> it's easy to add new tabs
<knome> and all the tabs can have unique bg img/color as you can see in the example
<knome> (and that's quite easy too)
<scott-work> i noticed that
<knome> http://temp.knome.fi/ubuntustudio/www/inc/img/featured-studio.png
<knome> that's the fullsize
<knome> a part of the image gets hidden if the window isn't wde enough
<knome> as you can see, i left some space for artwork in the tab-space too
<knome> so you can integrate eg. application screenshots in the bg images
<knome> (or, we can just print them to fg too if you like them to link somewhere)
<knome> was there something else specific you wanted to have a chat about? :)
<knome> or just generally the progress
<scott-work> did you make that image?  that's pretty good looking
<knome> i did
<knome> thanks
<knome> i can create something like that for all the tab while we are a bit closer to publishing stuff :)
<knome> sorry for the missing letters, typing on eeepc is not always so easy ;)
<knome> (trying to learn that once again)
<scott-work> lols
<knome> meh
 * knome forces a terminal-irc icon to be pushed in the next xubuntu release
<knome> okay, i'm going to bed
<knome> i'll try to be available for some FOSS stuff at 9am-noon UTC tomorrow, if you happen to be online then :)
<knome> see you later!
<scott-work> knome: yes, i should be here then
<scott-work> good night
* dtchen changed the topic of #ubuntustudio-devel to: Ubuntu Studio Development Channel | Ubuntu Studio code: https://code.launchpad.net/ubuntustudio | Oneiric Ocelot released! | This Channel is logged | Meetings first Sunday of each month
<scott-work> thank  you dtchen :)
<falktx> question
<falktx> is a US live-dvd ISO much important?
<falktx> "UbuntuStudio - KXStudio Remix" - that is
#ubuntustudio-devel 2011-10-14
<abogani> It sounds cool
 * falktx is creating a live-dvd US image
<falktx> hey there
<falktx> i see the new downloads, cool
<falktx> US image works!
<falktx> live-dvd!!
<knome> :)
<abogani> falktx: Great!
<holstein> fr-z: sure
<holstein> welcome
<fr-z> hi :)
<holstein> also, helping in the IRC channel/forums
<fr-z> sure i will give my best :) 
<fr-z> do you use xchat?
<holstein> im using irssi running in screen
<holstein> xchat is nice
<fr-z> i am trying to setup this so it performs the commands to identify and join channels auto. It seams to be on a file
<holstein> prolly, i have just done it from the GUI like http://xchat.org/faq/#q23
<holstein> irssi autojoins from a file i made
<fr-z> any reason why you use urssi instead of xchat?
<holstein> sure
<holstein> it runs in the console
<holstein> i can run it in screen on my server, and connect back in with ssh
<holstein> i just leave it running and connect back in from where ever i want
<fr-z> ahh like a bnc
<holstein> bnc?
<scott-work> hi fr-z and holstein  :)
<scott-work> holstein: can we talk a bit at your leisure about 12.04 and what we want?
<TheMuso> scott-work: Great to hear you are going to UDS, looking forward to meeting you.
<scott-work> thank you TheMuso , i am looking forward as well :)
<scott-work> although i feel that i have some substantial work ahead of me for the next release given the arguable failure or deficencies of 11.10 :(
<fr-z> sorry holstein went for a lunch break ^^ a bnc is a kind of an irc bot/server that you have running on a server. Then when you login you make it to your server and not to the global server. That way you are online 24/7 and you connect to the bot anytime you want
<holstein> interesting... yeah, its something like that then
<holstein> i have a bot running on this server too in screen
<fr-z> true
<fr-z> thats cool
<fr-z> here you have a list of bounces. that way we can use any irc client
<fr-z> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BNC_%28software%29
<fr-z> lol
<fr-z> one of them its yours ^
<fr-z> :)
<fr-z> hi scott-work i was afk
<sd_ubuntu___> Hi!
<fr-z> Hi m8
<sd_ubuntu___> :-)
<sd_ubuntu___> Could I help u in your work?
<sd_ubuntu___> Hi! I'm new at ubuntu community and I'd like to give my contribute. Holstein (now I seem its not here) invited me for give an help here. Is there some work that I could start now with you?
<fr-z> have you made your registration already on the links i sent you earlier?
<sd_ubuntu___> yes, in development
<fr-z> nice
<fr-z> i think that after you confirm your mail youl start to recieve things
<sd_ubuntu___> ah, ok.... thank u! :-)
<sd_ubuntu___> so, i wait
<sd_ubuntu___> now i have to go
<sd_ubuntu___> see u soon!!
<scott-work> bah, webchat.freenode.net dropped me again
<fr-z> ^^
<fr-z> any team manager online?
<scott-work> fr-z: yes, i'm here
<fr-z> hi scott how are you. i already subscribed to the devel list. but how can i see on what you need help? I can help designing and concept usability Interfaces (if you need ofc).
<scott-work> fr-z: let me find a link
<fr-z> thank you
<scott-work> this is what i had started but i hadn't done much on it
<scott-work> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/ContributeToDevelopment
<scott-work> to be honest, we are at the end of the cycle and there's not much to do currently for most upcoming items
<scott-work> however....
<scott-work> i expect development to pretty feverish and rapid during the next cycle and we will require a lot of testing
<scott-work> so we will certainly need testing assistence when it all starts
<scott-work> fr-z: i will also say that we probably need to update an application (ubuntustudio-controls) which could certainly use a new UI
<scott-work> however, that project still needs to have in depth discussion about the purpose and design of the application needs to be going forward since many things have changed systemically
<scott-work> in some cases, some functionality has been precluded by systemic changes in jack
<scott-work> fr-z: any questions or comments?
<fr-z> i will reply in a sec i am reading the page also
<fr-z> i was also instaling ubuntustudio-controls to check how was the UI of it
<fr-z> i can see that you also need help on the theme and maybe on the site layout?
<scott-work> fr-z: i can give you some particulars about the theme
<fr-z> that would be nice. 
<scott-work> fr-z: knome is working currently on the new website layout although i cannot speak to whether he would want or need assistance
<fr-z> ok
<scott-work> sorry, i'm at work so the pauses are when i need to address soemthing
<fr-z> np i am still at the agency aswell
<scott-work> fr-z: are you familiar with the xubuntu theme?  i think it is based on the thunderbird theme?
<scott-work> https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/_1QSDkzYY2vc/TbqXvD4wEDI/AAAAAAAAENU/dv_zS0XwUCM/xubuntu-11.04_2.png
<fr-z> i am a zero coder. I work on layouts and interfaces. I basicly develope the visual concept and usability skeleton of interfaces 
<scott-work> this is fairly representative
<scott-work> fr-z: okay, can i use vague terms to describe an effect then?
<fr-z> sure
<scott-work> my philosophy is that a pretty or fancy desktop is a distraction from doing pretty and fancy work ;)
<scott-work> i think the desktop should not draw attention but be completely functional
<scott-work> transparent but accessible, perhaps
<fr-z> thats why usability exists, its to serve those needs :)
<scott-work> i like the xubuntu 11.04 theme because it has an understated simplicity that allows you to function
<scott-work> there are some thing i would change, but i'll mention those later
<scott-work> if the target audience is to be users new to ubuntu/linux then we should maintain the expect desktop paradigm
<scott-work> i.e. no unity or gnome3
<scott-work> xfce is a light weight and still developed alternative to gnome-panel that maintains the familiar desktop paradigm
<scott-work> i would prefer neutral colors but perhpas this is the wrong adjective
<scott-work> by neutral i mean that it doesn't attract attention
<scott-work> so i would prefer grey (or gray as americans spell it), dark grey, or black for colors
<fr-z> unity and gnome 3 are an insult to usability. I have a graphic station runing it and i will format if soon. On a well organized UI you work fast. On those you take too much time to swap between apps and the workflow is very bad
<scott-work> i would like the window dressing to be uncluttered with fifteen jabillion window options...three buttons should suffice
<scott-work> fr-z: agreed!  especially for audio work where you will have at least five active windows and perhaps as much as twenty with synth work!
<scott-work> the desktop wallpaper should be fairly homogenous and not cluttered
<fr-z> fully agree
<scott-work> a simple logo design that is unobtrusive would be acceptable if tacitly placed in a corner perhaps
<fr-z> who has a long work day on a station will need to feel the UI ans a structure that supports the apps
<fr-z> i think the paradigm should be maintained. Not only for those that work on audio or graphics but, as you mentioned, on new users. Ppl i installed ubuntu where very happy and working on it. Now with unity they are on panic and cant work. Some are getting back to windos
<fr-z> thats why unity is a fail
<fr-z> not even talking about the left bar.
<fr-z> when you work, you need an harmony, and a strong bar pushing the view to one side of the UI, like on unity, is not good for a designer
<fr-z> the workflow is needed, the simplicity
<scott-work> i would posit that those who work with keystrokes instead of mouse can function very well with gnome3 or unity still, but that is not the majority of users though
<scott-work> especially new ones to linux
<fr-z> true
<scott-work> i used unity for several months on my laptop, same with gnome3
<scott-work> i didn't like it very much although i found gnome3 slightly more usable with the "hot corner" and more than four workspaces
<scott-work> but as far as specifics for a theme, i can't offer much more than what i have already mentioned
<scott-work> although i can offer a link to the most recent theme that i liked:  http://ubuntu-art.org/content/show.php/Ambiance+dark?content=132875
<fr-z> thats about the same i use :)
<scott-work> not theme related but i think we might also want to reconsider our menu to ensure it is simplified
<fr-z> how can i help? i make a sketch "screenshot" and send to you ?
<scott-work> i think that could be extremely helpful :)
<fr-z> nice
<fr-z> how can i do it?
<scott-work> send the "screenshot" to me?  my email is scottalavender@gmail.com
<scott-work> someone did suggest we use an existing theme to minimize our efforts but i haven't found a theme that is quite there
<fr-z> i will work on it and will send it to you as soon as i can
<fr-z> i will go to have dinner now i will get back later thank you for the help :)
<scott-work> greybird was the theme used for xubuntu 11.04, i'm not sure what is being used for 11.10 but i will find out tongith when i install it ;)
<scott-work> okay, thank you fr-z 
<fr-z> ;)
<sd_ubuntu_> Hi!
<sd_ubuntu_> it takes much time before to start?
<sd_ubuntu_> (sorry for my english :-) )
<fr-z> hi
#ubuntustudio-devel 2011-10-15
<holstein> you are kidding
<holstein> the -lowlatency kernel didnt make it in 11.10?
<naka> i'm no expert, but from what i understand a lot of the low latency functionality has been included in the generic kernel now
<naka> hence no need for -lowlatency
<holstein> naka: sure, but we still need it as of last release
<holstein> for several test cases
<holstein> firewire not being the only case
<holstein> still, we havent had one since maverick
<holstein> lucid has the RT kernel from karmic carried over into the repos
<holstein> naka: if you can test non-firewire, i'll test firewire
<holstein> with mainline kernels for 12.04
<holstein> still, we should be able to put software in the repos that we need
<naka> ah i see
<naka> unfortunately i'm still waiting for my internet to get hooked up here so i'm a few days away from really being able to download and test anything :(
<naka> but i hope to be able to help out once i'm online
<holstein> naka: :)
<holstein> cool
<holstein> we were really doing pretty well there for a bit before natty
<holstein> testing-wise
<naka> reading that y'all were switching to xfce piqued my interest in ubuntu-studio, since i've been thinking of doing the same thing myself lately
<naka> and i saw the oneiric release notes which almost read like a cry for help :>
<holstein> yeah, i think thats where im heading
<holstein> xubuntu is quite nice
<holstein> naka: lol
<naka> i might install xubuntu at least this afternoon. i'm using a 3g connection, so i can't download a lot of stuff without it costing a fortune, but my isp mirrors a few distros which are free to dl
<naka> xubuntu is included, ustudio aint :(
<naka> haven't used xfce in four or five years. back when i tried it the panel used to crash from time to time
<naka> i understand it has really matured now though. even torvalds made the switch
<craigs63> hi kubotu !
<kubotu> 'evening, craigs63
<sd_ubuntu_> Hi!
<knome> naka, back when i used gnome, it's panel used to crash daily too :)
<knome> *its
<naka> heh
<sd_ubuntu_> Hi! :-)
<holstein> sd_ubuntu_: o/
<sd_ubuntu_> holstein: hi! I'm still waiting to start..... how are u?
<holstein> sd_ubuntu_: dont wait, just have at it :)
<holstein> im good
<sd_ubuntu_> holstein: A guy told me that he received what to do after doing the registration in the list.... and I did it the other day, but I didnt receive the confirmation 
<holstein> sd_ubuntu_: ?
<holstein> well, i assure you, you wont get anything
<holstein> its me, and scott
<holstein> astraljava is here alot
<holstein> falktx is here
<holstein> sd_ubuntu_: if you want something easy, join the #ubuntu-news channel and you can write summaries
<holstein> we need help with that every weekend
<holstein> here, its like this
<holstein> sd_ubuntu_: here's what you do
<holstein> whatever it takes
<holstein> we are in a bad way right now
<holstein> this team
<holstein> what i plan on doing it asking around about how to get scott or falk motu access
<sd_ubuntu_> (i have to go ...)
<holstein> sd_ubuntu_: next time :)
<holstein> just so you know, dont expect much from that list in the way of direction
<fr-z> hi
<knome> hey fr-z 
<knome> fr-z, i see you asked about the new US website
<fr-z> US?
<knome> fr-z, at least right now it's hard to cooperate, but i'll let you all know if i need any help :)
<knome> us=ubuntu studio
<fr-z> ahh lol sorry :)
<fr-z> nice if you need count on me please ^^
<knome> sure, thanks
<knome> the next step is to migrate to a wordpress theme really
<knome> and make the JS "feature" tabs work
<fr-z> well coding its not my thing ;)
<knome> the new "feature" area can be seen at http://temp.knome.fi/ubuntustudio/www/
<fr-z> the only thing i can code is an html saying helo lol
<knome> more than nothing, isn't it :)
<knome> http://myhaiku.org/ for the general looks
<knome> so those two are going to be integrated into one wordpress theme :)
<knome> i don't know much about the content
<knome> that's something somebody else has to work on :)
<fr-z> ^^
<fr-z> its quite interesting
<fr-z> i would change some short details
<fr-z> simple things
<knome> about the content, or the lookS?
<fr-z> the looks
<knome> feel free to comment :)
<fr-z> i would remove the "ubuntu studio" on the left, the audio-video-graphics words at the banner top, the logo at the left side of the word audio
<fr-z> then
<fr-z> with the free space
<fr-z> you could zoom the banner to full screen that area
<knome> oh
<knome> see this page: http://temp.knome.fi/ubuntustudio/www/
<fr-z> it would breath more
<knome> that's what the header is about to look like
<knome> the rest of the page will be taken from myhaiku.org :)
<knome> eg. the article listing
<fr-z> this one is much better
<knome> that's exactly doing what you said - giving more space to breathe and cutting repetition
<fr-z> true
<fr-z> its more serious and professional
<fr-z> so http://temp.knome.fi/ubuntustudio/www/ will be the main visual structure?
<knome> yes
<knome> that's created using myhaiku.org, the previous draft, as a base
<knome> incorporating similar elements and somewhat the overall looks :)
<fr-z> no doubt its much better
<knome> thanks
<knome> oh - if you have any other ideas than just screenshots for the right-hand side of the "feature" area (there's some 250px width of empty space), shoot
<knome> i mean, the main slide probably should have a logo or something really generic
<knome> but the audio/video/graphics slides can be much more interesting than just screenshots
<knome> if we only have ideas for that
<knome> (any color/image is ok really)
<fr-z> if you want i can make a sketch with the idea but i have something in mind
<knome> sketch is great, just an idea is fine too
<fr-z> i woul remove the audio video etc, honestly they dont fit the global concept. And then you could solve the right side space. you could put, vertically icons
<fr-z> one  for audio, another for video and so on
<sd_ubuntu_> holstein: I was with my brother and grandmother and then I lost the connection..... thank you for your messages (that I losted unfortunately). However I've understood that I should join ubuntu news channel to start simply
<fr-z> let me see if i see and example
<fr-z> hi sd
<fr-z> i dont know if holstein isnt away
<knome> i suppose we're not going to change the vertical/horizontal aligment any more, but ideas for the background are welcome (btw, the free space is intentional ;))
<fr-z> if you have any other ideas than just screenshots for the right-hand side of the "feature" area (there's some 250px width of empty space), shoot
<knome> yeah, i mean something like photos of mixer buttons etc.
<knome> :)
<fr-z> you mean that was something for the right side but of the background?
<fr-z> ahh
<fr-z> got it :)
<knome> that's what the free space is for
<knome> some graphical element
<fr-z> for graphics i would bet on a 3d model, half rendered and another half in lines
<fr-z> i bet m8s on blender group wouldnt mind to give a hand. They have loads of models
<fr-z> and maybe they could help getting a lens for the video aswell
<knome> yeah
<fr-z> cya later :)
<holstein> hey knome 
<holstein> who has access to the artwork?
<holstein> i want to go ahead and take the old wallpaper and put it in our XFCE, first thin
<holstein> g
<holstein> and just choose some darker theme, and have that to fall back on
<holstein> anyways... upgrade from 11.04 worked
<knome> hey holstein 
<holstein> knome: o/
<holstein> are you the website guy?
<holstein> we gotta get that up ASAP
<knome> yup, yeah.
<knome> i know.
<holstein> how do we make that happen?
<holstein> AFAIK, you are done right?
<knome> the next step is to convert the drafts to a wordpress theme (i understood that was okay for scott)
<knome> after that, we need the canonical IS to set up a staging site for that, so you can insert the content
<holstein> yeah, that sounds envolved
<holstein> the wordpress thing
<knome> and shortly after that, you say "GO!!" and they'll publish it
<holstein> can we just say go on what you got?
<knome> no, because there's nothing completely ready yet
<holstein> OK
<holstein> what can i do ?
<knome> i have created this: http://temp.knome.fi/ubuntustudio/www/
<holstein> i can put up a wordpress instance if needed
<knome> based on this: http://myhaiku.org/
<knome> no need - i can do that myself too :)
<holstein> knome: lets try and talk more regularly, and make this happen ASAP
<holstein> like, 2 weeks, lets be submitting something to canonnical
<holstein> is that possible?
<knome> if you want to make things ready for the next stage, you can contact the canonical IS (just add a ticket in RT i understand) so they'll have a staging site ready for us
<knome> depends much on my commercial work
<holstein> im at the point with the site where we need to do something even if its wrong
<knome> i'm hoping to have more time soonish
<holstein> knome: if you want to set up the wordpress, i can mess with it
<holstein> and talk someone else into helping
<holstein> a wordpress guy
<holstein> i know 2 wordpress guys actually that would help
<knome> how well do they know theming?
<holstein> one of them is quite good at it
<holstein> and the other is learning
<holstein> he's more on the backend
<knome> okay
<knome> we don't need much of the backend now
<holstein> with those 2 guys, i should be able to really make some headway
<knome> i'll try to get something together tomorrow
<holstein> knome: thanks
<knome> like put that all into a wordpress theme draft
<knome> after that it's easier for others to chime in
<holstein> well, i say we just do it
<knome> we need some JS too, for the feature area
<holstein> you get the say so
<holstein> you and scottL
<holstein> no more 'is this OK, and whatever"
<knome> mm-hmm
<holstein> it'll be the week after 12.04 releases and well be saying the same thing
<holstein> if someone dont like it, they can come here and file tickets or whatever
<knome> heh, hopefully not
<holstein> they are more than welcome
<holstein> knome: the the JS something that can be added later?
<holstein> i can ask the theme guy
<holstein> he's more of a coder
<holstein> OH... i know a JS guy too actually that owes me some time :)
<knome> umph, no, i think it should be in right away
<holstein> we'll see
<holstein> all i can do is ask
<knome> i'll see if i have enough time for that tomorrow (or this night) too
<knome> i can do JS myself too :)
<holstein> knome: you are a gentleman and a scholar
<knome> :)
<knome> yeah, and lately quite busy ;)
<holstein> if i can do some of the light-weight stuff with the help i rustle up
<holstein> you can sweep in and JS
<holstein> swoop?
<holstein> whatever...
<knome> heh
<knome> in what timezone are you in?
<holstein> eastern... new york
<knome> right
<holstein> im in asheville NC
<knome> how much - is that?
<holstein> 5?
<knome> okay
<knome> i'm +3
<knome> but that's okay
<knome> i sometimes beat the people in US staying up longer
<holstein> yeah, you can message me here or email me or whatever
<knome> mmh.
<knome> i think i'm going to work on the site tonight
<knome> seems like the only way to go
<knome> i'll just wait that my wife falls asleep first :P
<holstein> hehe
<knome> brb
#ubuntustudio-devel 2011-10-16
<knome> holstein, you still online?
<knome> hey falktx!
<falktx> hey
<knome> http://temp.knome.fi/ubuntustudio/wordpress/
<knome> the tabs are working with JS now
<knome> and the content is dynamically created from a custom WP post type too ;)
<falktx> cool
<knome> yeah. i just hacked that together
<knome> holstein, ^
<knome> and yeah, that's only on the front page too
<falktx> I got the live-dvd ready
<falktx> but still need to upload the rest
<falktx> only 15% is up
<falktx> brb
<knome> :)
<knome> okay, some fancy effects there too!
<knome> VERY fancy effects too!!
 * holstein looking knome 
<knome> holstein, hey!
<knome> see http://temp.knome.fi/ubuntustudio/wordpress/
<holstein> knome: yeah, thats is bangin
<holstein> looks great
<knome> the best thing
<knome> it's WORDPRESS
<knome> :)
<knome> and you can edit the tabs as pages
<holstein> sweet
<holstein> lets put it up :)
<knome> and you can change the bg images too ;)
<knome> (by the admin...)
<knome> we need approval of IS
<knome> that means
<knome> they will set up a staging site
<knome> we push the code to a bzr branch
<knome> they go through it
<holstein> well, im exited
<holstein> excited*
<knome> and approve it (taking it doesn't contain any security issues - which it doesn't)
<holstein> knome: those transitions are nice
<holstein> the fades into one another
<knome> then we're on the staging site, and can upload any content, and when we are ready, they push it to production
<knome> mm-hmm :)
<knome> it's jQuery
<holstein> looks just awesome
<knome> the IS haven't been answering our request in a few weeks
<holstein> IS?
<knome> canonical internet services
<holstein> interesting
<holstein> maybe they are changing some stuff around
<knome> (i suppose the ubuntu studio site is on canonical servers, right?)
<holstein> for now
<knome> no, that's just normal that they are slow replying :(
<holstein> we talked about moving
<knome> moving to where?
<holstein> but, i think we just ended up at the free service
<holstein> knome: just elsewhere
<knome> heh, yeah
<holstein> private hosting
<knome> free service is nice
<holstein> well, i think thats where we are right now
<knome> yeah, i suppose it is so
<holstein> and we are not supposed to raise funds
<holstein> so, its going to come out of someones pocket, and that aint right
<holstein> when the free service'll be fine
<holstein> knome: thanks for doing that
<knome> yup.
<holstein> it looks great
<knome> no problem
<holstein> knome: can i share that around a bit?
<holstein> not too public
<knome> do you want me to contact (or make somebody contact) the IS, or will you do that?
<knome> sure, spread aroung
<knome> *around
<holstein> knome: i say the more the merrier on the contact
<holstein> do you know what to say?
<holstein> and who to contact?
<holstein> is it an email?
<knome> suppose it's just rt@ubuntu.com
<holstein> knome: if you want to send one, and CC me on it
<knome> but i can ask the same person that handles the xubuntu site to ask about this too
<holstein> mikeh789 at the gmail
<knome> oki
<knome> do you know scott's mail?
<holstein> then, i can follow up with something not too far afterward
<knome> my mail is pasi@shimmerproject.org, if you ever have anything
<holstein> knome: thanks
<holstein> the other thing is that kernel
<knome> what kernel? :)
<holstein> the lowlatency kernel that needs to be in the repos
<holstein> i think scott is maintaining it now
<holstein> not sure...
<holstein> ill have to aks
<knome> aha
<holstein> ask*
<knome> i know nothing about that
<holstein> but we need that in the repos
<holstein> we havent had a proper kernel since 10.04
<holstein> and that was the old one from 9.10
<knome> :(
<holstein> the new generic kernels are RT friendly
<holstein> but, we still need the lowlatency one for a few more releases
<holstein> i would like to have it in the LTS
<knome> yeah..
<holstein> then, we can not have it anymore i say
<knome> if the kernel is ready in the sense that it just needs to be uploaded to the repositories, i see no reason why it couldn't make it, if you just pressure people
<holstein> yeah, im going to confirm that that is the only step missing
<holstein> then, im going to start the pressure
<holstein> get that thing in now
<knome> yeah
<knome> not always easy when you are from the small derivative
<knome> not too easy for xubuntu stuff either
<holstein> xubuntu is looking *so* awesome these days
<knome> heh, thanks
<holstein> what a great team
<knome> we hope to keep that trend up
<holstein> i think you will
<holstein> you guys seem to have momentum
<holstein> and the product shows that too
<knome> mmh. not that we couldn't do with a few more hands
<holstein> well, hopefully we cross pollinate a bit more than we have
<holstein> this team is just so small right now
<knome> mm-hmm
<knome> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2011-October/007996.html
<knome> you probably should /whois me too, if you still haven't :)
<holstein> oh, i saw that mail
<holstein> i didnt realize that was you
<holstein> thats great :)
<knome> heh, yeah
<knome> if i get elected, i'm definitely going to strive for more cooperation with ubuntu studio, since we're sharing the same DE now
<holstein> well, i personally hope that we can get working with you guys more, and just have our theme-ing and audio stuff
<holstein> most of the UI work should be able to be done together
<holstein> UI and backend other than studio specifics
<knome> yeah
<holstein> i know some folks on the xubuntu team were testing out ISO's and that was great
<holstein> scott and i both got a little crazy with personal stuff here toward the end of the release
<knome> i'm hoping to be able to grow the xubuntu dev team by one or two developers
<knome> that would already be huge by our standards
<holstein> yeah, thats what i heard
<holstein> i was surprised
<holstein> you guys have such a polished product, i assumed some dev's were right there
<knome> well, we have ONE
<holstein> that helps
<holstein> we need one :/
<knome> yeah, but even he is mostly on packaging-only mode
<holstein> we'll get one
<knome> yeah, and if we can get a few more, i'm sure you'll benefit of them too
<holstein> yeah, exciting times
<knome> btw, do you know if there is need to fetch and show some tweets on the studio website, like myhaiku.org suggests?
<holstein> knome: maybe
<holstein> i wouldnt mind
<knome> what would those tweets be?
<knome> (you could show some aggregated blogs too - i have a simple plugin for that ready)
<holstein> knome: probably complaints ;)
<holstein> 'i cant install'
<holstein> 'another fine mess' 
<knome> lol
<holstein> 'what are you guys doing'
<holstein> :p
<knome> yeah, but which twitter accounts to aggregate - or did you mean something like aggregating all twitter messages with ubuntu studio mentioned?
<knome> (or some tag)
<knome> hmmpf. i think i need to sleep. it's 6am.
<knome> feel free to send me email or ping me at irc if there is something
<knome> bbl
<knome> (and good night)
<holstein> knome: thanks again
<holstein> i'll run that by scott and the others as i see them
<holstein> im not sure about it
<knome> hey fr-z 
<knome> fr-z, made some progress re: the website yesterday, we're now sporting a wordpress draft site: http://temp.knome.fi/ubuntustudio/wordpress/
<fr-z> heyy knome morning :)
<fr-z> nice is quite cool
<knome> it works with and without JS too
<fr-z> what do you think about this:
<fr-z> at the right side of the logo you have the symbol
<fr-z> how about to remove his blue backriund circle and put the symbol on the blue the background has
<fr-z> sorry for my english sometimes its not the best ^^
<knome> we can have the symbol in the blue are too, but the actual logo is the text and the symbol, as it is shown in the top of the page, so that won't be ripped off ;)
<fr-z> if you dont understand pleaseso i try to explain myself better
<knome> but yeah, i think it's not a bad idea to have the logo picmark in the featured area too
<fr-z> what i am trying to say is that the logo is nice as it is
<fr-z> i was just wondering if it could improve if the right symble could invert the color
<knome> yeah, i understand - that's definitely not final yet
<fr-z> ahh ok
<knome> it just something that i put together to demostrate the featured tabs area
<fr-z> kk
<fr-z> sorry was afk
<fr-z> the js slider are you going to keep it on each sector?
<fr-z> inside i mean
<knome> no, just the frontpage, if that's what you meant
<fr-z> yes
<fr-z> brb
<fr-z> hi
#ubuntustudio-devel 2012-10-08
<smartboyhw> OK since ubuntustudio-default-settings got in I think not really much work to go on now except testing:D
<scott-work> good morning everyone :)
<scott-work> it looks like changes are happening at work, and i expect more free time by the end of this month
<scott-work> is anyone interested in brainstorming for next cycle and getting blueprints lined out?
<scott-work> ..
<scott-work> by the way, len-dt and ailo (and micahg too), you guys rocked some good stuff this cycle
<scott-work> without your involvement, we would have been basically dead
<falktx> scott-work: hey there
<falktx> scott-work: I look forward to get my Cadence tools into debian soon
<falktx> so I kinda ask, can that be considered on the next meeting or something?
<falktx> only for next cycle, of course
<ailo-w> falktx: I'm willing to look through your stuff. We should use your apps and see how they could be useful
<falktx> ailo-w: thanks, I'm working hard to finalize them now
<ailo-w> falktx: Are you happy with their current state? Just add your ppa and install them?
<falktx> I still need to write their documentation so everyone knows what they do
<FloatingGoat> what apps?
<falktx> ailo-w: I'll create a new PPA just for them in the mean time
<ailo-w> falktx: Good idea. I can help with docs
<falktx> the page I use to write the app-docs is here:
<falktx> http://kxstudio.sourceforge.net/KXStudio:Applications
<falktx> (skip FeSTige and Klaudia)
<scott-work> falktx: that would be awesome (getting cadence into debian)!
<scott-work> congratulations :)
<falktx> thanks, still lots of work to do though :)
<scott-work> the calf plugins apparently have a new website (and some new plugins): http://calf.sourceforge.net/index.html
<falktx> yes, those are awesome!
 * FloatingGoat is going to try festige
<ailo-w> falktx: I'll make sure to install them and use them for a little while. I'd suggest anyone else to do that too, so we know how they are useful. 
<falktx> ailo-w: I already have them in kxstudio (as calf-plugins-git package), I assure you they are great
<falktx> I need to update to latest git though, there has been lots of fixes recently
<ailo-w> scott-work: I'd give len-dt most of the credit for this cycle, all though, I've been doing preparative work on a few important things, such as Ubuntu Studio developer docs. Things are kind of hectic, so things move painfully slowly for me right now on US development, but I will keep working on whatever I've started.
<FloatingGoat> falktx: hey can i use festige with qtractor?
<falktx> festige is an app, not a plugin
<falktx> dssi-vst is there for the job, check the plugins page
<FloatingGoat> it wont load or something
<falktx> hM?
<FloatingGoat> it doesnt seem to load
<FloatingGoat> im going to try and work around it
<falktx> note that I don't support festige anymore
<falktx> everything is going towards the cadence tools
<falktx> there is 'Carla' in there which will replace festige soon
<FloatingGoat> what is cadence?
<FloatingGoat>  I was looking at it and it looks cool
<smartboyhw> hi scott-work 
<smartboyhw> and ailo-w
<smartboyhw> Wow er scott-work and ailo you have been praising len-dt ?
 * smartboyhw joins the crowd
<scott-work> hi smartboyhw 
<smartboyhw> Hey falktx saw you talking about cadence into debian:D
<smartboyhw> scott-work, blueprints....Where are they?:D
<smartboyhw> I saw it from today's logs
<scott-work> i mention it because i wanted to start brainstorming ideas for the blueprints
<smartboyhw> scott-work, first idea: To add a "Work hard on Developer Docs" item for ailo :D
<scott-work> i expect that some tasks from Q will carry over to R, but i would also expect some new tasks
<scott-work> the current blueprint framework should also be reconsidered...the names and parsing of the blueprints were my construct and might not be the most applicable
<smartboyhw> :D
<scott-work> however, if they work and no one wants to change, delete, or add a particular blueprint topic to better handle particular tasks, then we should definitely explore that
<smartboyhw> scott-work, so really nothing to do much for Q now eh?:D
 * smartboyhw hopes he can do all that testing in 14th-18th Oct....Will be quite busy ah!
<scott-work> there are incidentals we can always work on, e.g. website, documentation
<scott-work> and always bug fixes that should be looked at
<scott-work> i am actually setting up two computers on a KVM switch in the game room to help out with testing again
 * scott-work lost his "testing area" from the spare bedroom
<smartboyhw> scott-work, :D
<smartboyhw> YEAH YEAH YEAH
<len-dt> scott-work, my testing is kind of slow these days due to a video problem with my machine. 
<smartboyhw> welcome len-dt look at your praises from ailo, scott-work and me!:D
<len-dt> There has been an offer of getting the latest gimp paint studio into repos if we are going to include it.The offer came a bit late this cycle, but might be worth considering for R
 * len-dt thanks people for the support, but thinks it is mostly just menu reworking.
<smartboyhw> len-dt, I think the new one must be in for R Alpha 1!
<smartboyhw> len-dt, come on you worked most hard
 * smartboyhw anyway thanks ailo and len-dt and scott-work for making a wonderful OS.
<len-dt> scott-work, another item to add to R BP is getting icons set up for any of our own *.desktop or *.directory files
<scott-work> len-dt: if gimp paint studio was in the repo i would defintely like to include it in the graphics seeds
<scott-work> i also wish synfig was back in the repos or some other 2d graphics animation application
 * scott-work wonders if pencil ever get into the repos
<scott-work> apparently it has :)
<scott-work> i think i will look into using this for a few upcoming projects then
<falktx> warning: gimpshop is a scam and virus source
<falktx> just in case...
<scott-work> oho, just realized that synfig was back in ubuntu starting in quantal :D
<len-dt> scott-work, the person to talk to for gimp paint studio is shnatsel
<len-dt> He already has it in his own PPA
<scott-work> i remember shnatsel talking about it and telling me about some of the features (although i can't remember anything specific :P )
<len-dt> scott-work, it is an addon to gimp it adds tools to gimp, not another app.
<len-dt> Makes gimp able to do painting kinds of things as well as touch up etc.
<scott-work> i remember the feeling that it was a set of tools that bridges gimp to photoshop functionality basically
<len-dt> I'm not enough of an artist (paint/visual wise) to make good use of it. I like something that can draw shapes.
<scott-work> i found this just now, which is pretty damn impressive: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1nKnvp2sJww
<len-dt> (lines, squares, circles)
<scott-work> another interesting video:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rmcvR2yeGbQ
<scott-work> i wish there would be a blender "paint studio" :P
<scott-work> well for video
<scott-work> lower thirds, et al can be made with the node editor but it would be nice have scripts already together for such common things like mainstream video editors
<scott-work> the hope is lightworks currently for many people to provide this stuff
<len-dt> Nice video... have to start out with an artist though. I couldn't do that :)
<scott-work> woah, webchat did some weird stuff and then wouldn't let me log on
<len-dt> scott-work, two more things to add to 13.04 BP are controls (Which is in progress) and mode change (Len needs to rewrite this in python)
<len-dt> they actually go together.
<scott-work> len-dt: i'm going to review the logs and then post a these items to the mailing list for record and to ask others to contribute ideas
#ubuntustudio-devel 2012-10-09
<smartboyhw> hi scott-work 
<ailo-w> /quit
<smartboyhw> ailo-w, you fail
<ailo-w> Very weird
<ailo-w> Ah, space key
<smartboyhw> ailo-w, I think you bold it
<ailo-w> Need to go. Have a nice day
<smartboyhw> ailo-w, bye
#ubuntustudio-devel 2012-10-10
<ailo-w> I'm not home right now, but a reminder for me, or anyone else interested..
<ailo-w> Have a look at if changing login without password can be set using gui control
<ailo-w> Seems like it may only be set during install
<smartboyhw> hi scott-work ailo
<smartboyhw> OK so I am going to move the post-installation testcase to the main ISO QA Tracker area now. Any objections?
<smartboyhw> Actually I moved it already just now:P
<smartboyhw> BTW the Ubuntu Open Week session for Ubuntu Studio will be on 1700UTC 24th October. len-dt ailo scott-work note that down:D
<smartboyhw> Anyway link:
<smartboyhw> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek/
#ubuntustudio-devel 2012-10-12
<ailo-w> Very weird. Suddenly I'm unable to o
<ailo-w> .. connect to freenode with my irssi client
<astraljava> ailo-w: What does it say?
<smartboyhw> Oh?
<smartboyhw> OMG I now need to send out the 12.10 RC-Final testing call:D
<smartboyhw> Oh so len-dt you are awake!
<len-dt> Ja
<smartboyhw> OK so the work for today: Change my status in blueprints, send the release team email and sent out the call for testing 12.10 Final holy 
<len-dt> I was able to set my last BP item to DONE, but it doesn't show in the burndown chart yet
<smartboyhw> len-dt, it updates every hour
 * len-dt has to get lunches ready for his kids
<smartboyhw> Anyway!
<smartboyhw> There are 4 days left in the current cycle. That means that in order to complete all the work 149.00 workitems must be completed per day.
<smartboyhw> Jesusw
<astraljava> smartboyhw: Err... the release team expects the mail on Thursday, by 2100 UTC. :)
<smartboyhw> astraljava, well not only me but a lot of people sent it in one hour before ( even balloons)
<astraljava> I know hardly any team does send it at that time, but still, that's what it says on the page.
<smartboyhw> astraljava, I am busy yesterday revising my Chinese History test how can I send it?
<smartboyhw> .......!
<astraljava> I'm not blaming you, just reminding what it says. :)
<smartboyhw> astraljava, :)
<smartboyhw> scott-work, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QuantalQuetzal/ReleaseNotes/UbuntuStudio#System_Requirements still the same as 12.04?
<scott-work> smartboyhw: i would say that it most likely will be the same. are you aware of any other conversation from vanilla ubuntu regarding elevated requirements from last cycle?
<smartboyhw> scott-work, I am searching
<smartboyhw> scott-work, they need 768MB for vanilla
<smartboyhw> so 768MB for us?
<smartboyhw> ?
<scott-work> smartboyhw: The minimum memory requirement for Ubuntu Studio 12.04.1 is 512 MB of memory. It is highly recommended that you have 2GB or more memory though so that the system will perform much better. More information about other recommended hardware on the new Ubuntu Studio website when it is released.
<scott-work> per: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PrecisePangolin/ReleaseNotes/UbuntuStudio#System_Requirements
<smartboyhw> scott-work, so?
<scott-work> i would suggest 768MB as minimum but include the language about 2G as recommended
<smartboyhw> scott-work, ok
<smartboyhw> scott-work, changed already:D
<smartboyhw> Wait a minute am I stupid or........Why is it still ubuntustudio-default-settings	0.37 in the manifest?
<smartboyhw> Clearly micahg didn't get to work:D
<ailo> That was weird. Had to add the ip for chat.freenode.net to /etc/hosts in order to be able to connect from here
<len-dt> Hmmm, 2 ISO builds today. The ISO got smaller.
<micahg> anything missing?
<len-dt> Just downloading now.
<len-dt> micahg, looks like it is all there. The size diff is not that much
<len-dt> just enough for the download page to switch from 2.2G to 2.1, but the file size is 2233085952 so still real close to 2.2G
<len-dt> The slide show is smoother than it has been too. (could be the different computer's video)
<len-dt> Gah! someone started a rebuild part way through me testing.
<len-dt> Ubiquity fails on install. Bug #1066173
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1066173 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "whole disk install puts grub in wrong place" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1066173
#ubuntustudio-devel 2012-10-13
<len-1210> seems ok for the most part.
<len-1210> ailo, we don't have a volume control in the systray any more/still.
<len-1210> and the ability to make the window buttons expand to take up space seems to be gone... but the separator after can instead.
<len-1210> the sub menu item for you can help is only directed at the -devel mailing list page and that page is not great for explaining anything.
<len-1210> we should be pointing to a better web page for this I think.
<len-1210> anyway, I passed the live ISO and the post install, but not the install.  It made it so my normal boot no longer worked :P  see bug above.
<len-dt> bug #1066214
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1066214 in Ubuntu QA Website "The "volume applet" does not exist in the systray " [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1066214
<len-1210> for recording or other sound work where there is no special mixer for the sound card, I think QASmixer is better than the xfce alsa mixer.
<len-1210> It is more configurable, can be shrunk farther while still being useful and nicer to look at.
<ailo> len-dt: The volume applet is back, just that you need to reinstall some package
<ailo> len-dt: I forget which one. If you make a fresh install, it will appear
<ailo> len-dt: Or, you mean on the live image?
<ailo> We really need to fix that, if it is so
<ailo> I'm on my way out, but will have a look this evening
<astraljava> ailo: indicator-sound-gtk2, if my memory serves correctly.
<smartboyhw> ?
<smartboyhw> Ah the sound problem
<smartboyhw> To everyone: 100% in http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-quantal/group/topic-quantal-flavor-ubuntustudio.html yeah
<smartboyhw> First team to reach that:D
 * smartboyhw finds out that only len-dt marked most of his workitems DONE good job
<len-dt> smartboyhw, I didn't put my name to any that were not at least inprogress. Just a different way of doing things.
<len-dt> ailo, no volume applet either live or after install
<smartboyhw> ailo, true
<smartboyhw> len-dt, we fail ailo just got a timeout
<len-dt> Not a problem
<len-dt> ailo, no volume applet either live or after install
<astraljava> len-dt: indicator-sound-gtk2 missing from the seeds?
<len-dt> It was taken out when it was stopping the the ISO build I think.
<astraljava> Yeah. It got pulled out from the repos, but it's back there now.
<len-dt> I'll add it back and call the bug fix commited I guess. Works ok in xubuntu?
<len-dt> Will it still point to pavucontrol?
<astraljava> I don't think it ever did, that was achieved via -settings.
<len-dt> I guess I should be able to test it easy enough, just install and see what happens.
<len-dt> The upgrade task takes "forever"
<len-dt> The upgrade does not include the publishing meta. It does include the volume applet...
<len-dt> I am not sure this is or not a bug. The upgrade process, does not use the seeds after all.
<len-dt> It is quite reasonable that the publishing meta had not been installed in the first place at the users choice.
<len-dt> The upgrade method still does not seem to be something that should be recommended.
<len-dt> The photgraphy meta does not seem to have been installed either. This is more confusing, because the apps in the old photography section are there, but the new additions are not. So the photography meta is half there.
<len-dt> bug #1066401
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1066401 in update-manager (Ubuntu) "distribution upgrade to 12.10 omits two metas" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1066401
<len-dt> astraljava, I have been unable to test the volume applet so far... when I upgrade it is already there so I need to do another 12.10 fresh install.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2012-10-14
<Len-nb> astraljava, re: volume applet.  Fix committed, there were three apps commented out.
<micahg> Len-nb: I assume you need a meta upload now?
<len-dt> I would guess, though I don't know if there will be a respin before release.
<len-dt> It must be later than I thought micahg , I didn't realize you were around
<micahg> yeah, I'm back :)
<micahg> len-dt: ok, meta on its way as soon as the test build finishes
<len-dt> micahg, where would we put settings that guide an upgrade from version to version
<len-dt> Great
<len-dt>  micahg thank you
<micahg> len-dt: did you tell skaet that you want a respin once that's in?
<len-dt> No. I will... #ubuntu-release?
<micahg> yeah
<ailo> len-dt: Nice work. 
<ailo> And everyone else too :)
<Len-nb> The respin got delayed... just starting now.
<ailo> len-dt: I have the volume applet, but there's no empty space between menu -> systray
<ailo> The separator between "Window Buttons" and "Systray" is not expanded
<ailo> I don't know where the file is which handles that. Trying to find it
<ailo> Found it
<ailo> len-dt: Would be great if you could confirm the problem with the panel layout. 
<ailo> I updated the source for ubuntustudio-default-settings to have that separator be expanded by default
<ailo> micahg: I've updated ubuntustudio-default-setting with one tiny commit. Any chance to have it uploaded? I haven't bumbped the debian version though. What was the recommended method?
<astraljava> Len-nb: len-dt: The -publishing doesn't come on upgrades, if none of the currently installed packages recommend it. Seeds don't apply on upgrades.
<len-dt> astraljava, I am less worried about publishing as it is obvious its missing. photography is half  there. What I was saying was That upgrade should not be considered as the proper way to move from 12.04 to 12.10
<astraljava> len-dt: I think it's a matter of whether it is a supported process or not. Now it obviously isn't, so it shouldn't be advertised as one in the release notes.
<len-dt> astraljava, a policy question then :) you may not know... should the upgrade be considered "passed" if the system is runnable after an upgrade? or should I leave it failed?
<astraljava> len-dt: Hmm... are there proper test cases for upgrade? I'd say it has to pass all the relevant tests, just like a new install, in order to be considered successful.
<len-dt> Ja there is a test case for upgrade. I marked it failed.
<len-dt> I thought maybe there might be a normal script in meta or settings packge that only get run in the upgrade case we could use to fix this
<astraljava> len-dt: There's only the tests in various pre- and post- scripts for upgrade)
<len-dt> Just like there is a preinstall an install and a postinst
<len-dt> That may work. Is it version specific?
<astraljava> No, but the scripts may vary depending on version, of course.
 * len-dt is thinking ahead to LTS->LTS
<astraljava> Yeah. You can of course script in version checks.
<len-dt> astraljava, it may be simpler to just add the two new metas to desktop till after the next LTS
<astraljava> Well... more packages might not necessarily be easier to support. :) More things to remember, more things to upload...
<len-dt> astraljava, I'm just thinking in terms of making the LTS upgradelook the same as the live ISO.
<len-dt> (or at least closer)
<astraljava> Vanilla may use something that's coded into do-release-upgrade. I'm not sure about those, though.
<smartboyhw> len-dt, so you want to abolish the whole upgrade testcase?
<len-1210> LMMS pulls in the windows fonts with the do you accept screen. How would live ISO/install deal with this?
<len-1210> ailo, ^^
<len-1210> And does that mean wine is in there too?
 * len-1210 finds yes it does... VST support.
<len-1210> this would make LMMS hard to include in our ISO as we have found before
<smartboyhw> len-1210, er...You want to abolish the whole upgrade testcase am I correct?
<len-1210> I don't know, I think it is broken in a way that will not be fixed for q
<len-1210> We can leave it as failed
<len-1210> (and won't be fixed)
<len-1210> However, I would like more input than mine
<smartboyhw> Anyways... len-1210 even JoseeAntonioR had to fire off an email to see who is doing the Open Week session...Are you in? ailo also?
<len-1210> I think I mentioned it on thelist. So I expect comments there
<len-1210> Open Week... at that time I will be walking hard and fast... probably in the rain, with both hands full.
<smartboyhw> len-1210, eh......... so?
 * smartboyhw should expect ailo then:D
<smartboyhw> Anyway I am going to sleep scott-work/ScottL ailo stochastic len-1210 holstein just reply the email back to JoseeAntonioR if you want to do the session, got to sleep bye!
<len-1210> bye
 * holstein checking the scheule to see
<ailo> len-dt: We need to do whatever we are doing with jackd
<len-dt> LMMS also doesn't end up in the menu :P  ailo not sure what you mena about jack
 * len-dt is on his way out the door...
<ailo> len-dt: Normally you answer y/n to realtime when installing jackd. The iso install does that automatically
<ailo> There is one difference though
<ailo> I guess something about licensing?
<ailo> len-dt: Did you try the latest ISO? Did you also have a non-expanded separator on the top panel?
<len-dt> Latest ISO still has non-expanded sep.
<len-dt> ailo, when upgrading jack the config should not change.
<len-dt> ailo, in my opinion... the ubuntu version of jackd should look at the kernel and if it is lowlat. put in yes and no otherwise. It really shouldn't need a people to answer that question. The only reason to not have jack RT is if the kernel can't give it.
<ailo> len-dt: You need the realtime option also with -generic, to get any kind of good performance
<ailo> len-dt: The package is designed with Debian in mind
<ailo> Users belong to audio group by default on Debian, so all you require in order to get realtime privilege is the file that the jackd package adds to /etc/security/limits.d/audio.conf
<len-dt> ailo, wine fonts being a license really should have the user read and ok. Hitting yes for them is probably not legal.
<ailo> len-dt: Question is if we are allowed to distribute or not. If yes, all we need to do is add info on the download page
<ailo> len-dt: The reason why users are asked about putting the audio.conf file is because some say it poses a security issue
<len-dt> The font installer is separate and could be run after ISO install 
<len-dt> ailo, I didn't know that
<ailo> len-dt: There are different opinions as to which way would be the best way to achieve realtime privilege
<ailo> Some would rather have rtkit handle it
<ailo> But, since we just get the solution directly from Debian, we get what we get
<len-dt> Ya, when if they change so do we.
<ailo> len-dt: About ubuntustudio-default-settings. Procedure for updating the changelog? There was a command to do that based on commits, I believe..
<ailo> I would like to solve that first, and then try to get anyone to upload it
<len-dt> I have been putting the comments in changelog and then pasting to commit.
<len-dt> I happen to use joe to edit so the text is normally still on the screen anyway.
<ailo> Ok. I think there was a command to create the changelog automatically based on commits
<ailo> Too tired to investigate right now
<ailo> Maybe micahg will turn up tomorrow, and we can wrap it up quickly
<len-dt> Yes I have heard there is... I would think it was some BZR command but it seems to me it is a deb* command.
<ailo> dch is the debian script that you usually use for updating Debian package changelogs
<len-dt> ailo,  it looks like the MSfonts package is optional.
<ailo> In this case, I believe it was a bzr / debian tool
<ailo> len-dt: Ah, right. Then we just do a "no" for the ISO install. And if we could add a thing at first login, which tells you there are unfinished tasks, that would be the best I think
<len-dt> See the comment in the mailing list too. from Eric
<len-dt> ailo, we could "blacklist" the fonts
 * falktx jumps in
<falktx> LMMS doesnt have any piece of non-free code in it
<falktx> Wine is the one responsible for pulling the ms fonts
<falktx> any app that relies on wine will pull those
<len-dt> It is just the ms fonts, but they are recommends
<len-dt> We had issues with wine before breaking the amd64 ISO build.
<falktx> lmms on 64bit doesn't use wine afaik
<falktx> somehow it's not possible to build wine64 stuff on launchpad
<len-dt> So it has a different feature set?
<falktx> yes
<falktx> only the 32bit has the vst support
<len-dt> Sounds nice for support :P
<falktx> I want to find out why wine-64bit fails to install on the launchpad builds, I need it for my tools
<falktx> it's very weird, something related to multiarch, but complicated
<len-dt> If it is included on the LIVE ISO it would have to be without the licenced fonts.
<ailo> I find wine 32bit/64bit a bit confusing. I think most things I run on wine are 32bit, but then some 32bit stuff don't seem to work
<ailo> Should be possible to run 32bit vst on amd64 wine?
<falktx> yes
<falktx> it works just fine
<len-dt> That would make sense
<falktx> building wine64 binaries on launchpad is the issue
<falktx> this is why the 64bit build of lmms doesn't have vst
<micahg> ailo: bumping changelog after a released version is dch -i -DUNRELEASED
#ubuntustudio-devel 2013-10-07
<holstein> zequence: ping
<zequence> holstein: pong
<smartboyhw> OvenWerks, bug 1236111
<ubottu> bug 1236111 in Ubuntu Studio "Help icon in 12.04.3 launcher menu opens 404 page" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1236111
<smartboyhw> Found where the bug occurred, but where should we point to?
<smartboyhw> zequence, ^
 * smartboyhw checks the Quantal version
<smartboyhw> Anyone disagree with replacing xfhelp4.desktop to exo-open --launch WebBrowser https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuStudio ?
<smartboyhw> (Other ideas are welcome)
<zequence> smartboyhw: That would be fine
<zequence> I'm off back to the dentist soon. Something is not right. The pain meds aren't helping much.
<smartboyhw> zequence, OK for the first sentence, :( for the second...
<smartboyhw> Erm, just realized it's simply a duplicate of Bug 1041882 (the old old bug)
<ubottu> bug 1041882 in ubuntustudio-default-settings (Ubuntu) "Ubuntu Studio 12.04.1 does not have help" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1041882
<xequence> smartboyhw, I saw that the meta went through. Nice job
<smartboyhw> xequence, not the -menu
<smartboyhw> Riddell says the email is not enough, it still needs a ACK directly from -doc and -translators
<smartboyhw> xequence, the SRU is now waiting for sponsorship:)
<xequence> Ok. Well, we can always fix that afterwards, so no problem
<xequence> I'm just sitting, awaiting my appointment. Luckily it won't cost me nothing. Fixing teeth is not all that cheap. 
<smartboyhw> xequence, why does it not cost you anything? :O
<xequence> It's included in the procedure. If I get problems, they just fix it. 
<xequence> I already paid for it. 
<smartboyhw> xequence, huh, in HK that does not necessarily happen
<smartboyhw> (Not saying that it wouldn't)
<xequence> We used to have free dental care. I miss the old days of socialism. 
<xequence> We still have free medical care of course. That, and free education. 
<smartboyhw> xequence, free medical care does not exist in Hong Kong.
<smartboyhw> "Free education" does.
<smartboyhw> If somebody pushes for free medical care in HK, it would just submerge into the same situation as it is in USA now.
<xequence> It's one of the corner stones in s free society of you ask me. 
<smartboyhw> xequence, "free" society in Hong Kong? It's utopia...
<xequence> Why. It's not elsewhere
<smartboyhw> xequence, I don't think so
<smartboyhw> Actually, "free" education in HK always has arguments over how many years
<smartboyhw> Originally it's 9, now it's 12 and people are planning for 15 (i.e. kindergarden + primary + secondary_
<xequence> Should be free all the way to the University
<smartboyhw> xequence, aw..
<smartboyhw> xequence, is Swedish politics very complicated...
<smartboyhw> >
<smartboyhw> ?
<xequence> Not really. They are all so alike, it's boring almost. Except for the emerging Nazi parties that you see everywhere in Europe. But, those are marginal. 
<smartboyhw> xequence, you're fortunate
<smartboyhw> In HK, it's just arguments everywhere
<xequence> Much of what exists today is Thanks to a dominant socialistic rule in the past, and a much stronger economy. At least I don't think it would be as easy to make some of those changes today. 
<xequence> .. for the same reason
<xequence> Also, countries were more isolated. Today it's a global mess. 
<xequence> smartboyhw, you've really done a lot of good work lately. I'm really happy that you are apart of our team. I think you are becoming a valuable contributor to the Ubuntu community as a whole. 
<smartboyhw> xequence, thank you:)
<smartboyhw> Now closing some bugs in ubuntustudio-default-settings that were EOL (bug triaging time)
<smartboyhw> xequence, OvenWerks what happened to https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntustudio-default-settings/+bug/984970 in the end?
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 984970 in ubuntustudio-default-settings (Ubuntu) "Audacity and Inkscape are in the video production menu" [Undecided,New]
<xequence> That's not a bug
<smartboyhw> xequence, closing it then...
<smartboyhw> What about Bug 980059 + Bug 980060
<ubottu> bug 980059 in ubuntustudio-default-settings (Ubuntu Quantal) "ubuntustudio-logo.png should be generated from source at build time" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/980059
<ubottu> bug 980060 in ubuntustudio-default-settings (Ubuntu Quantal) "Duplication of ubuntustudio-logo.png and ubuntustudio-logo-menu.png is unnecessary" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/980060
<xequence> I need to look through those at home
<smartboyhw> xequence, sure, whenever you see fit
<smartboyhw> OK, this bug marking job is tiring:P
<smartboyhw> xequential, xequence OvenWerks though, do make sure you apply for ubuntustudio upload access someday:)
<smartboyhw> I miss ScottK;(
<smartboyhw> And ScottL
<smartboyhw> ScottK for his SRU powers
<smartboyhw> (even for a few days)
<smartboyhw> And ScottL for his leading position for Studio
<smartboyhw> All Scotts sound nice;)
<smartboyhw> xequential, just realized it's actually a full cycle since you've been project lead, congratulations!
<zequence> smartboyhw: Thanks
<zequence> It's been a really slow cycle for me, as a developer, but I've been around to answer questions and what not, so that's good
<smartboyhw> zequence, BTW, we seriously have to discuss about participation in vUDS
<smartboyhw> (First thing: I can't appear in video, as you well know)
<xequential> Yeah, this time we will have a session
<smartboyhw> xequential, OK, do we want one with blueprints, or just one without?
<smartboyhw> (i.e. a general discussion)
<xequential> I've been planning that all along.  Mostly for attracting developers
<xequential> More for the sake of PR.
<xequential> But we also need to have a few meetings
<smartboyhw> xequential, for meetings I prefer 15:00 UTC, where most people would be here:P
<xequential> That should work on weekends at least
<smartboyhw> Hello cub 
<cub> hi there smartboyhw, how's things?
<smartboyhw> cub, good
<cub> smartboyhw, how can I proceed with my stubborn accessibility task for Orca? It need to have speech-dispatcher to be able to do voice during the installation process. We added gnoem-orca and brltty before FF. But how do I add speech-dispatcher at this point?
<cub> I suppose I'll make a bug whiuch then can be fixeD?
<smartboyhw> cub, mmm, you're quite late.... It's 3 days before FinalFreeze
<cub> yeah it is what it is
<cub> if we manage, great. If not, we'll wait for 14.04. :)
<smartboyhw> cub, what you need to do: 1. Make gnome-orca in gnome-orca source package's debian/control Suggests: speech-dispatcher. 2. File an FFe. 3. Ask for a sponsor to upload it.
<smartboyhw> Or wait, you mean during the installation process?
<smartboyhw> Eh, that's more difficult
<cub> yes
<smartboyhw> cub, you probably have to touch the seeds (and I'm not sure if you have to touch ubuntustudio-default-settings)
<cub> it was very easy to add gnome-orca and brltty earlier?
<cub> just too bad gnome-orca didn't list the speech-dispatcher as a dependency as I thought it was
<smartboyhw> cub, you need an ACK from zequence and/or OvenWerks first to add speech-dispatcher into the seeds. (
<cub> ok, and then?
<smartboyhw> (Then we might have to properly request a FFe to update ubuntustudio-meta) <- cub, you want speech-dispatcher in the system after installation as well?
<smartboyhw> ACK from the two big devs -> update seeds -> (FFe to update ubuntustudio-meta)
<cub> well yeah, if you are a person who need speech during installation I assume you would need it after the installation is done as well. :D
<smartboyhw> cub, ok, we need to update seeds and ask for a FFe then
<smartboyhw> Update seeds are easier
<smartboyhw> Just do what you did last time
<cub> is it possible to get a FFe through this close?
<smartboyhw> cub, it depends.
<cub> What I mean is, should we bother?
<smartboyhw> cub, that's why I need an ACK from zequence + OvenWerks 
<cub> I'll catch them later on today.
<smartboyhw> cub, maybe do the change, and propose a merge proposal first?
<cub> yeah
<smartboyhw> We can accept/reject it if they like;)
<cub> but I need my home computer for the luanchpad
<smartboyhw> cub, huh!?
<smartboyhw> Why?
<cub> I don't have a proper set up on my work computer
<smartboyhw> uh ok
<smartboyhw> cub, have you requested a FFe before?
<cub> nope
<smartboyhw> (I mean, generally(
<smartboyhw> cub, you need some experience on that part
<smartboyhw> SRU + FFe is something Ubuntu devs learn to file;)
<cub> that's why I'm asking you about the process
<cub> however, I have to go. Work is piling up :/
<smartboyhw> cub, sure
<cub> I'll be back later on 
<smartboyhw> xequential, ^
<zequence> holstein: hey man
<holstein> zequence: yo
<zequence> holstein: you pinged me yesterday. What's up?
<holstein> zequence: my shell account is dropping me :/
<smartboyhw> Hello holstein :)
<holstein> lots of reboots
<holstein> zequence: i was just going to ask about that bug question in the main channel
<holstein> i think smartboyhw is on it..
<zequence> Ah, yeag
<holstein> the "help button" opening firefox and going 404
<smartboyhw> zequence, what do you think of the discussion between me and cub?
<zequence> He managed that, yes
<smartboyhw> holstein, waiting for some kind person to sponsor the upload (and a SRU team member to ACK it afterwards, of course)
<holstein> smartboyhw: you're a star :)
<holstein> smartboyhw: maybe i can take some time and hang with you and catch up on how you deal with those issues
<zequence> smartboyhw: I won't bother about it for 13.10, myself. So, I'll leave that to him, if he really wants to try getting it in
<holstein> i had done the bug squad sponsorship, but i got too busy
<smartboyhw> holstein, well, it's just because I've got half day off-school and no homework and boringness before FinalFreeze:P
<smartboyhw> zequence, it's not a problem on 13.10
<zequence> 13.10 is not unimportant, but it's so close to 14.04, which will overshadow it
<smartboyhw> It's just a problem on 12.04
<smartboyhw> (in case we are talking of the 404 problem)
<smartboyhw> zequence, or are you talking about the speech-dispatcher?
 * smartboyhw gets confused between two bugs:P
<zequence> I also want to put special focus on 14.04 as far as maintenance goes. We need to start doing backports and updating software, making 14.04 an up tp date release all the way up until 16.04
<smartboyhw> *Two packages...
<holstein> i like the shorter normal releases
<zequence> That way we can put less focus on the interim releases
 * smartboyhw agrees with holstein 
<holstein> not that many things were backported to the normal releases, but that shorter term should make things easier
<smartboyhw> zequence, good time to have our first few MREs:P
<zequence> backporting means we need to do testing. So we don't backport something that introduces some weird problem
<zequence> so, we really need to get on board the whole testing thing for this cycle. make it into a system, and find more contributors
<smartboyhw> The more contributors thing is what we REALLY need... We are basically the second or third least-tested flavour...
<zequence> I'm going to put as much work as I can into making 14.04 a great release, one which will overshadow all others. And, after that, I will be less active developing Ubuntu Studio. I'll continue as a project lead until we either get a bigger team and can have elections, or until the time is right for someone else to take over, who I choose.
<smartboyhw> zequence, hah? That's not exactly great news.....
<zequence> The goal is to make 14.04 so good, we don't really need any more releases until 16.04.
<smartboyhw> (For the less active part)
<zequence> I need to work on other things in the future
<zequence> I have some plans for Debian. But, also, my own stuff. Music, mostly.
<smartboyhw> Hopefully we do get more contributors, if not Len and cub and me will go overloaded-.-
<zequence> No, I think you'll be fine no matter how things goes
<zequence> If 14.04 is great, we hardly need to do anything until 16.04. Each middle release needs minor amounts of maintenance.
<smartboyhw> I think one thing we need to emphasize when asking for contributors is that "It does not require actual coding knowledge!"
<smartboyhw> Actual = C++ and that sort of stuff
<smartboyhw> Yeah, after 14.04 LTS we won't be sure if there will be normal releases...
<zequence> Right. We don't even know what will happen after that
<smartboyhw> Probably they will smash normal releases
<zequence> Well, right now I'm happy if I can be pain free for a little while. Got some stronger pain meds, and they don't work either when it gets bad
<smartboyhw> zequence, smash pain:)
<cub> Hi OvenWerks or zequence active?
<zequence> cub: I'd not worry about that stuff for 13.10
<zequence> It would be nice, but it's so late.
<zequence> And 14.04 is soon here
<cub> yeah, I got caught up in work and family so couldn't put as much time into it earlier
<cub> alas, orca will work for users with braille support. I just can't test it myself.
<cub> I'll dig in to the workflows instead and the upcoming RC tests.
<zequence> cub: I think it's really nice you've put some time into that
<zequence> cub: It may be we are the only multimedia capable OS who are able to do that well
<zequence> cub: Maybe there's not much left to do for 14.04, to get that optimized?
<cub> it might be even better for 14.04 as orca works best under Gnome
<cub> dinner's ready..bbl :D
#ubuntustudio-devel 2013-10-08
<smartboyhw> zequence_, xequential OvenWerks : ubuntustudio-menu is now in -proposed (should migrate to -release soon)
<smartboyhw> Hello cub 
<cub> Hi smartboyhw 
<cub> I don't know if you read the logs from yesterday? But we settle with accessibility on braille support for 13.10 and continue with speech for 14.04
<cub> at least some accessiblity improvement. though I can't really test it myself.
<smartboyhw> cub, saw it 
<cub> And to ttoine when he pops in. Spreadshirt will send me yet another mug. So we'll see if the printing is better when it arrives.
<smartboyhw> OvenWerks, now somebody who's reviewing the SRU says that we shouldn't have used exo-open at all
<smartboyhw> We should make it Type=Link and URL=[you know, the help page]
<smartboyhw> The SRU is accepted with the above changes
<smartboyhw> Er, uploaded (not yet accepted)
<smartboyhw> Stupid me
<madeinkobaia> Hi all.
<OvenWerks> smartboyhw: (if you read the backlogs) Type=Link is fine for that patch and version of our menu. However, Type =Link does not work for KDE or Lxde as I recall. I had to change them all to xdg-open calls to make things work across DEs.
<OvenWerks> It seems each DE picks and chooses which parts of the "standard" they will follow. XFCE is one of the better ones.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2013-10-09
<cub> zequence_, are you around?
<zequence_> cub: Yp
<zequence_> yrp*
<zequence_> I'm on pain meds. That might be my problem right now
<cub> I was curious about the kernel question in the forums: linux-lowlatency is not optimal for servers. So, I would recommend to try using linux-generic instead.
<cub> Why would the generic make any noticeable difference?
<zequence_> linux-lowlatency has less throughput
<zequence_> I've heard the number 10%
<zequence_> It's good for single user desktop systems
<cub> so generic would handle more stuff at the same time?
<zequence_> yes
<cub> aha
<cub> I thought they were similar
<zequence_> That's the cost of preemtion
<zequence_> preemption
<cub> ok
<cub> How's the tooth healing going?
<zequence_> Not sure yet. Might be better today
<zequence_> Second day on penicillin
<zequence_> No, third
<zequence_> But it's been 48h+
<cub> I saw you talked about the upcoming UDS
<cub> any news?
<cub> I'm confused if it will be a phsycial event as well as online?
#ubuntustudio-devel 2013-10-10
<smartboyhw> OvenWerks, zequence: Is there ANY sort of code not landed in the archive?
<zequence> smartboyhw: I think you'd be the best one to tell, since you've been the one getting some packages uploaded recently
<smartboyhw> zequence, mine's passed (except the SRU is still in queue, but it's not urgent)
#ubuntustudio-devel 2013-10-13
<smartboyhw> Drafting the testing announcement now. Sorry for the delay, I'm squashed under homework and club stuff
<smartboyhw> And I probably can't do any testing for the coming week.
<smartboyhw> Ew, Planet Ubuntu truncates my post-.-
<smartboyhw> (The testing call)
<smartboyhw> OvenWerks, can you switch on your 12.04.3 computer, and test the SRU uploaded to -proposed  for https://launchpad.net/bugs/1236111?
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1236111 in ubuntustudio-default-settings (Ubuntu) "Help icon in 12.04.3 launcher menu opens 404 page" [Medium,Triaged]
<OvenWerks> smartboyhw: booting.
<smartboyhw> OvenWerks, OK, going to sleep now though, after you tested the fix please change the tag of the bug as "verification-needed" to "verification-done"
<OvenWerks> smartboyhw, zequence: simplescan is not up to graphics creation use
<smartboyhw> (Sigh, need to go back school tmr on a public holiday)
<OvenWerks> I was unable to use it to scan a colour document even
<OvenWerks> I had to install xsane
<OvenWerks> smartboyhw: :P
<OvenWerks> I have been busy with "life" the past bit myself
<OvenWerks> brithdays and my Wife's grad.
<smartboyhw> Well, basically these two weeks (past and this) is the busiest, club matters-.-
<smartboyhw> len-dt, so, how's the result?
<len-dt> still updating.
<smartboyhw> len-dt, oh
<len-dt> Well over 100 updates to do.
<smartboyhw> len-dt, heh heh heh heh heh heh
<len-dt> I only have one monitor between this computer and my wife's so I don't run this that often anymore.
<len-dt> The monitor is on the list :)
<smartboyhw> Good
<len-dt> My netbook must have a bad internal connection, because reinstalling the BIOS did not help. I will have to take it apart sometime... but it still runs
<len-dt> smartboyhw I don't know if you will see this or not... The help icon in 12.04.03 now points at the US web page (good) however the tool tip says xfce help :)    :P
<OvenWerks> smartboyhw: bug #1236111 verification done. The menu item now opens a web page. As noted, the tool tip is not correct..
<ubottu> bug 1236111 in ubuntustudio-default-settings (Ubuntu) "Help icon in 12.04.3 launcher menu opens 404 page" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1236111
#ubuntustudio-devel 2014-10-11
<holstein> zequence: you mean, we'll backport that kernel to 14.04?
<zequence> holstein: No, kernels are SRU'd by the Canonical kernel, each time a new release is out.
<zequence> -lowlatency is maintained by them as of trusty. It's merged with the -generic code, so it will automatically be SRU'd too
<holstein> so.. the kernel gets backported? then?
<zequence> holstein: No, it's a Stable Release Update
<zequence> It ends up in the updates pocket. Not backports
<holstein> so, that kernel? with the changes, by *some* means.. gets into 14.04?
<zequence> Yes, once Utopic is out
<zequence> If you check in /etc/apt/sources.list, trusty-updates - that's where it ends up
<holstein> i had to bail on ubuntu on my production machine
<zequence> Yeah?
<holstein> i'll have to setup a testing scenario on another box..
<holstein> or, a partition
<zequence> What was your problem with Ubuntu?
<holstein> just little things.. 
<holstein> avlinux is a better fit for my studio right now
<holstein> easier to get what i need
<holstein> no real "problem" with ubuntu", necessarily
<zequence> Give me an example
<holstein> a few mixbus plugins that i paid for wont draw
<holstein> the kernel in AV is more stable with my gear
<holstein> its not up to ubuntu to stay behind and make my hardware work great.. i get that
<holstein> but, AV is more of an appliance.. and when i got all in on mixbus, i wanted the "Best" environment for it.. so i took a long weekend and did a bunch of tests.. and landed with av on the production rig
<holstein> though, it does feel like a bit of a step back, and i miss some things from the ubuntu repos, its the easiest way to address all the little issues i was having
<holstein> mostly growing pains with the mixbus plugins.. "Our plugins use the "OpenGL" drawing functions, and this problem indicates a bug in a particular OpenGL driver function that only the XT plugins use."
<zequence> ok
<holstein> i tried working in a few places.. but at the end of the day, i just need to do some work there..
<holstein> i was hoping harrison would get more into it
<zequence> What kind of kernel problems where you having?
<holstein> and, since mixbus is proprietary, there seems to be little interest in our particular community for support
<holstein> zequence: no "problems".. i just get *much* better stable performance with an older RT kernel.. 
<holstein> i feel ubuntu is on a better path though, for the future.. 
<zequence> You mean lower latency?
<holstein> zequence: i can achieve lower latency, sure.. but, i can also get better performance at the same latency setting
<holstein> like, re-drawing mixbus's mixer.. in ubuntu would take about 12+ seconds.. maybe more to see the entire output.. at the same settings in AV, its less than a second
<holstein> its *all* changing.. and gl drivers, open and proprietary.. its all related.. and a mess
<zequence> ok, so it seems a lot of it had to do with Mixbus specifically then.
<holstein> im not promised support for linux from nvidia, so i get what i get there.. and, do i need nvidia? i want dual head, and that was the easiest way for me to add it
<zequence> I'm sure there are other things too. Stuff that we aren't providing in simple steps, like a2jmidid
<holstein> zequence: sure.. but, should it take 12+ seconds to draw?
<holstein> zequence: its not open and not in our repos.. so it would be up do Ben..
<holstein> he says, it would be more up to ubuntu.. and im actually sure ardour3 is dealing with a lot of this, and will trickle into the next version of mixbux
<holstein> but.. for me, right now.. with my current hardware/software, AV was a better and easier fit
<holstein> i dont think its doing anything particularly new or ground breaking, though
<holstein> zequence: you havent had a chance to fire up 14.10 and your firewire device?
<zequence> Nope. But, I don't think it's supported yet anyhow
<holstein> i havent either.. but, i may try and do that from a live environment on the main machine
<zequence> It wasn't on a list I saw
<holstein> zequence: oh.. 
<holstein> i mean, i dont really care or want/need that.. but it would make it handy for folks to use the firewire device in audacity, for example
<holstein> if you have a firewire device, you use JACK. and it has such a high barrier of entry.. and if you have the wrong firewire chipset, it'll just never start ;)
<holstein> its challenging
<zequence> Yeah
#ubuntustudio-devel 2015-10-05
<gQuigs> is xfce4-mixer still needed in studio?  it's not included in xubuntu anymore...
<gQuigs> (it's the only thing keeping gstreamer0.10 on the dvd apparently)
<zequence> gQuigs: Is there a problem with including gstreamer?
<gQuigs> zequence: it's using the old gstreamer0.10 instead of the modern gstreamer1.x (1.6)
<gQuigs> zequence: I've been working to remove it from a lot of the default DVDs, but I didn't think ubuntu-studio could get there for this release, turns out someone else fixes dvdstyler, so it's the only package left
<zequence> gQuigs: Let me have a look tomorrow. If we don't use it for something important, then of course we can drop it
<zequence> And, thanks for letting us know.
<gQuigs> zequence: sure thing, I'll prepare a merge request too 
<gQuigs> and uploaded - https://code.launchpad.net/~bryanquigley/ubuntu-seeds/ubuntustudio.wily/+merge/273417,  I understand it's late in the cycle for this...
<Troubadour> Hi there was a call for iso testing Ubuntu Studio 15:10, so I am trying (first time). I just installed Ubuntu studio Wily (daily build yesterday) in a Virtualbox. The recommended 8G storage was too small, 10G did it. What is the best way to report. (I get lost in the QA tracker website)
<Troubadour> (also said in #ubuntu+1)
<holstein> Troubadour: you can use the qa tracker. and do the tests that we need for release
<holstein> !bug
<ubottu> If you find a bug in Ubuntu or any of its derivatives, please file a bug using the command Â« ubuntu-bug <package> Â» - See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ReportingBugs for other ways to report bugs.
<holstein> also ^
<holstein> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/ISO
<Troubadour> I am not sure it is a bug.
<holstein> oh.. im not saying, or suggesting it is either. im just saying, thats a place where one can report issues..
<Troubadour> I do not remember where it was recommended to use 8G of storage.
<holstein> anyways.. virtualbox is "suggesting" that space
<holstein> you can just use a larger amount of space, or, if you find that a wiki guide is suggesting 8, and you think it should or needs to be 10, you can update that
<Troubadour> Yes that sounds less pedantic :-)
<Troubadour> Tx holstein, willdo!
<holstein> Troubadour: cheers, and thanks for your time testing!
<zequence> Ubuntu Studio requires a bit more than 8GB. Virtualbox is not aware of that, and when you create a new virtual driver for Virtual Box, you just need to make it larger than default
<zequence> I usually make it 20GB, just in case - if I continue to do testing and need to install a bunch of stuff
<Troubadour> That is what I did, and though it took a lot of time, it did install and run. I will try again with 12G, see if it is faster.
<zequence> Troubadour: Since the Beta is already released, there's no point in reporting the results at http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com, however if you do find bugs, it would help if you reported them.
<zequence> Troubadour: You are welcome to join testing the final release in a couple of weeks.
<zequence> It's great that you take the time to learn how to do it now. Though quite simple, if everything goes smoothly, there's still a lot to take in if you are very new to it.
<Troubadour> There are a lot of very old pieces in the examples. 
<zequence> Final Release is Thursday, October 22nd
<Troubadour> Good luck!
<zequence> Testing the final release can be done the whole week before hand. There will most likely be rebuilds during that time, so it won't be the same ISO until the very end, but still, it's good to make sure the Ubuntu Studio specific stuff is good.
<Troubadour> Where will the new builds be announced?
<zequence> Troubadour: The irc channel for release related stuff is #ubuntu-release, but don't think it's announced in any formal way. I usually just check the build version in http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com
<holstein> i'll ask in that channel, patiently, as well
<holstein> so i can try and see if a new build is out, or coming out
<holstein> i have tested the build, as the newer one is coming out..
<Troubadour> Ah (I had thoughtmaybe  #ubuntu+1)
<holstein> a wasted effort.. if you test one, and a new one is coming out, the new one is the one that needs to be tested..
<zequence> There's also #ubuntu-quality
<Troubadour> Sure, I thought yesterdays was the latest.
<zequence> We don't really test the daily
<Troubadour> Ah
<zequence> There's at least one new build every day, until a freeze
<Troubadour> Good to know
<zequence> Check for releases and freezes here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WilyWerewolf/ReleaseSchedule
<Troubadour> Yes! 
<zequence> Final Freeze is 15th October, which means no changes allowed, unless you are fixing something critical. And, if something was fixed that somehow affects our ISO, our ISO will be rebuilt
<holstein> no *changes*.. but, iso's can be rebuilt as much as necessary..
<zequence> The ISO is only rebuilt if something changed
<Troubadour> That sounds cryptic
<holstein> the iso can be rebuilt, so, i say, as a step to not waste time, as i have in the past, just ask..
<zequence> Actually, that's not how I do it.
<Troubadour> Please enlighten this iso testing noob.
<zequence> Troubadour: When the freeze happens, I will announce testing on the mail list. If you're up to it, just join us then.
<zequence> I'll be on IRC, as well as other team members. Also, you may ask anything on the mail list as well.
<Troubadour> I will, (If I can find the time)
<holstein> *i* have have the iso change, as is stated above, that it can, *after* freeze.. that is all
<holstein> it can change, is all.. and it wont hurt to just make sure you are testing the latest..
<zequence> The most critical testing time is the actual release day. But, it's good to do some testing a few days before hand
<zequence> holstein: If you want to catch a Ubuntu Studio specific bug, you can test the ISO anytime. However, the ISO that is to be released needs to be tested just for the sake of being able to mark it ready for release
<Troubadour> The formal aspect, right.
<Troubadour> ?
<zequence> One could say, those are two different kinds of tests. The first is for actually testing the release, the other to just make sure it boots and installs so you know it's at all functional for release
<holstein> zequence: im actualy not asking.. but, thanks
<zequence> holstein: I just wanted to make sure you also were aware of this, so that if someone asks for help you dont confuse them
<zequence> No offence
<Troubadour> It would be good to have some yardsticks ^w metrics like: you should be able to record out of the box plus card drivers.
<holstein> zequence: i linked the bug tracker, for normal bugs.. thats what you are talking about? correct?
<holstein> anyone, anytimme, can download any iso, and test the pacakges and file a bug..
<zequence> Troubadour: What you are talking about is what we call test cases. We don't have a lot of them yet. If you would like to get involved, you are most welcome to help us writing some.
<holstein> but, the iso's qa testing happens at milestones. and, all im saying is, as a person who has tested one, and a new one came out.. just check and be sure its the latest..
<holstein> or, that none are being built..
<holstein> it would be rough, to take the afternoon, as i did, and test, and have that time wasted..
<holstein> zequence: but, if i may PM you?
<zequence> Troubadour: A test case is what you see here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/Testing/ISOTesting#Performing_a_test
<Troubadour> So, the release testing can teach me the ways toreport. I would really love to see a distro, that as goog as works right out of the iso.
<zequence> holstein: Sure
<Troubadour> zequence: is there a list of Ubuntu Studio specific testcases?
<zequence> Troubadour: Hang on.
<Troubadour> NP
<zequence> Troubadour: The test cases are in a source repository. Have you worked with those at all before?
<zequence> Ubuntu uses bazaar for most of their source. You may have heard of git, and subversion before?
<Troubadour> and ndvr bedore (1980)
<Troubadour> before
<Troubadour> That was a mainframe CM package
<Troubadour> Do you have a link?
<zequence> Troubadour: We had some help in setting these up, but we haven't had anyone with the time or drive to do anything with these.
<zequence> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/Testing/Testcases
<Troubadour> I will have a loook.
<Troubadour> Tx
<zequence> Each bug probably has this link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/ContributingTestcases/Manual
<zequence> I can't actually help you much with that, since I have not done it myself yet
<zequence> The way to do it is general for all Ubuntu, so, maybe ask in #ubuntu-quality for help
<zequence> Or, here, if it concerns bzr, or whatever
<Troubadour> I am really looking for audio specific testing.
<zequence> Troubadour: There are no test cases written yet, but if you like, you could help us with that.
<Troubadour> But any bugs I find along the way, I am happy to report. That is the only way to get some quality.
<zequence> Well, you can do testing without test cases too
<zequence> Also, then you want to test the daily.
<Troubadour> It is a nice target. I will start with learning to deal with bugs in general.
<zequence> But, no reason to report it at http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com
<Troubadour> Yes that is clear.
<zequence> Just, when you find a bug, you do: ubuntu-bug <package>
<Troubadour> Hm, I have done that a few time, but also a few were rejected (firrst remove all proprietary packages - unfortunately without mentioning which is the offensive one)
<zequence> Bug reporting can be hard :)
<Troubadour> I also did a kernel bisection, finding a USB bug.
<zequence> Cool
<Troubadour> I felt a little proud :-)
<zequence> Troubadour: Do you have a launchpad account?
<Troubadour> Yes
<Troubadour> Thank you very much, I have to leave in a few minutes.
<zequence> Troubadour: Add yourself as a member to the lp team ubuntustudio-bugs, if you want to receive multimedia specific bugs
<zequence> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntustudio-bugs
<zequence> If you report a bug for any multimedia package, it will probably be sent to members
<Troubadour> Tx again this was a very worthwhile chat.
<Troubadour> I will
<zequence> Also, if you ever find something critical it may be a good idea to tell us directly too
<zequence> We don't fix a lot of them, but at least if we really have to
<Troubadour> WonÂ´t hesitate :-)
<zequence> Great! And thank you!
<Troubadour> Â¨You have successfully joined Ubuntu Studio Bugs.Â¨ 
<OvenWerks> zequence: xfce4-mixer is not needed. I am not sure if we ship qasmixer, but it is much nicer and includes more stuff. We do include alsamixer for sure :)
<DalekSec> No, that uses a gstreamer0.10 backend, if anything xfce4-pulseaudio-plugin would be of interest.
<OvenWerks> DalekSec: we do use that, but for many things an alsa mixer is a must. Pulse does not nice things that are ok for desktop but not for audio production.
<OvenWerks> qasmixer does not list gstreamer as a dep.
<DalekSec> xfce4-mixer*
<OvenWerks> DalekSec: DalekSec we don't need xfce4-mixer.
<OvenWerks> xfce4-mixer does not make working with high i/o count cards easy. Or cards that have lots of settings. QASmixer is better, though still not as good as dedicated controllers like mudita24.
<OvenWerks> DalekSec: I was responding to an earlier query by 07:14 < gQuigs> is xfce4-mixer still needed in studio?
<DalekSec> Mm.  I was commenting that xfce4-mixer is basically deprecated overall.
<OvenWerks> DalekSec: Yes, and I guess it isstanding in the way of a newer gstreamer
<OvenWerks> DalekSec: gQuigs wants us to remove it from Studio. I am happy to see that happen.
<DalekSec> Good move, IMO.  Not sure you've seen it, but https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=785846
<ubottu> Debian bug 785846 in src:xfce4-mixer "xfce4-mixer: Please update to GStreamer 1.x" [Serious,Open]
<OvenWerks> zequence: ^^^
<OvenWerks> zequence: if we do not include qasmixer, adding it to seeds would be part of the bug fix.
<DalekSec> (FWIW, you're the only Ubuntu Xfce flavor shipping it, Myth and Xubuntu don't.)
<OvenWerks> :)
<OvenWerks> zequence: qasmixer is already in ubuntustudio-audio.
<OvenWerks> zequence: xfce4-mixer is a recomends in ubuntustudio-desktop
#ubuntustudio-devel 2015-10-06
<zequence> Just because xfce4-mixer is only shipped by us, and has a dependency to something ancient doesn't mean it's buggy and doesn't work
<zequence> The question is, do we need it?
<zequence> If yes, then we keep it until next LTS, otherwise we drop it
<zequence> I don't want to replace it at this point
<zequence> ..with something else, that is
<sakrecoer> i couldn't find the xfce4-mixer in the menu. but terminal launched it.seems to be working, but i had never seen it before
<zequence> Do we have a alsa GUI mixer of some kind
<zequence> ?
<sakrecoer> my bad, it xfce4-mixer seem to be in the mixer menu labeled "audio mixer"
<sakrecoer> not sure wich one the alsa GUI mixer would be... there are quite a few to chose from.
<sakrecoer> QASmixer seem to be the alsa GUI one... i personaly only use ffado, but i rarly touch it once its set..
<zequence> Hmm, I don't have Ubuntu Studio installed here. Will have to install it anyway
<zequence> We have QASmixer?
<sakrecoer> well... in 14.04, yes we have QASmixer
<zequence> Ok, in that case it should be enough just to drop xfce4-mixer
<zequence> I will install and double check today
<zequence> Hmm, my virtualbox on Debian Stretch does not want to boot the Ubuntu Studio installation ISO. Getting the Beta
<zequence> ..instead
<zequence> Checksum was ok. I'm thinking the problem is Debian (testing)
<zequence> But, if the Beta boots, it might be something else
<zequence> Stretch is at fault
<OvenWerks> zequence: has libavcodec-extra-56 been replaced with something else?
#ubuntustudio-devel 2015-10-07
<zequence> OvenWerks: Don't know. I haven
<zequence> ..been able to check that today. Will tomorrow
#ubuntustudio-devel 2015-10-11
<erick> hi
<erick> I have some questions about wily werewolf
<erick> Do you think we would get google drive integration within file manager?
<erick> xfce is based on gnome, but they use different file managers nautilus vs thunar.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2016-10-10
<sakrecoer> ISO looking good so far :)
<sakrecoer> i guess the graphics menu could be tidy up.. but not sure its possible since we havn't got any uploader..
<sakrecoer> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntustudio-menu/+bug/1616823/comments/6
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1616823 in ubuntustudio-menu (Ubuntu) "Graphics category needs to be overseen" [Undecided,In progress]
<sakrecoer> everything passed for me.... couldn't even break calibre nor ebook viweer \o/... will keep an eye on eventual rebuilds anyway.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2016-10-11
<sakrecoer> it looks like the new site wont come up in time for release. we can stilÃÂ¶ cross fingers but, yea. its a bit sad, but we can use it at our advantage: proÃlonge the noise after release and use it to engage the comunity.
<cfhowlett> no worries.  2017 is 10 years of US so we can launch the new site AND celebrate!
<sakrecoer> :)
<sakrecoer> we shouÃÂ¶d realy make a lot of noise all the way to 17.04
<cfhowlett> agreed!  
<cfhowlett> in fact: a new wallpaper contest, NO photography, digital art only, themed to the workflows
<sakrecoer> excellent idea cfhowlett !!
<sakrecoer> maybe some kindof sound contest too? not sure what thevthematic would be, or what function it could have?... maybe for the videovifnet for tutorials.. or just the ubuntu studio biethday anthem? :)
<sakrecoer> *videovignett
<cfhowlett> oh HELL yes!  although I am rather partial to reusing the US sound themes myself ...
<sakrecoer> well then, perhaps the birthday tjing could be something? maybe try gather something for a compilation of somekind?
<cfhowlett> indeed.  I was awaiting the release to begin organizing any such effort though
<sakrecoer> sounds wise cfhowlett :)
<eylul> I would still suggest that the new site comes as soon as possible, early in next cycle
<eylul> lets not lose steam on it this time, earlier we have it out, the more time we have to focus on to do other things, and start thinking about regular content for example
<eylul> :)
<eylul> yes I am looking at you cfhowlett (if you are still interested in documentation) and JTLively and chimois too. :D
<cfhowlett> indeed yes!
<eylul> :)
<JtLively> I am still interested but my workload doesn't leave much room for writing as of now. The easiest way I can contribute for now is videos for using specific apps.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2016-10-12
<krytarik> sakrecoer: Heh, notice the forth and back between RFP and ITP on Debian #774005. :P
<ubottu> Debian bug 774005 in wnpp "RFP: photoflow -- fully non-destructive photo retouching program" [Wishlist,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/774005
<sakrecoer> krytarik: ah nice!
<sakrecoer> this is odd: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gfxboot-theme-ubuntu/+bug/1550186
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1550186 in gfxboot-theme-ubuntu (Ubuntu) "First entry of boot-menu "Try UbuntuStudio without installing" do not get translated into the chosen language" [High,Fix released]
<sakrecoer> says fix released but latest iso is still having it... at least i386.. haven't got to amd64 yet..
<sakrecoer> chamois, JtLively, you testing the live session? :) it would be very kind of you
<sakrecoer> like, just a smoke-test, boot from a USB and open your fav software... to get some hardware variation :)
<sakrecoer> a full install is also welcome of course :D
<krytarik> sakrecoer: That now depends on the provided translations - most are missing still: https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/yakkety/+source/gfxboot-theme-ubuntu/+pots/bootloader
<sakrecoer> oh... thank you!
<sakrecoer> ^ krytarik.
<krytarik> Sure.
<sakrecoer> and also, it hits me, now maybe Ross knows where the graphics for that boot prompt is located? :D
<sakrecoer> it would be nice to revamp them graphics for bday party :D
<sakrecoer> maybe something for you chamois ? :)
<sakrecoer> make some nice ubuntu studio splash-art for first contact boot screen of the ISO?
<sakrecoer> krytarik found it \o/ finaly!!! http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-cdimage/debian-cd/ubuntu/view/head:/data/yakkety/ubuntustudio.pcx
<sakrecoer> chamois: ^ fancy redoing that? :)
<sakrecoer> ( chamois: you might have to click "download" to view it)
<chamois> sakrecoer ok!
<sakrecoer> \o/ <3
<krytarik> sakrecoer: Ftm, I didn't have to "find" it - but I was surprised how old-style it is.. :P
<sakrecoer> krytarik: well to me you did, i asked about it, but i guess i forgot to ask you :)
<eylul> are we getting a respin?
<sakrecoer> eylul: yes :)
<sakrecoer> in 27 minutes https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-cdimage/+livefs/ubuntu/yakkety/ubuntustudio
<eylul> oh ok
<sakrecoer> well... estimated... i guess then there is upload, tracker burp and what not :D
<eylul> hahah
<eylul> well
<eylul> if the release happens tomorrow on time I'll be glad
<eylul> respin 24 hours to release is not a good sign
 * eylul patiently waits
<eylul> jokes aside I have a VM, and possibly 2 hours or so before I head to sleep. what do you want me to test?
<sakrecoer> eylul: just don't mug yourself :) test what you can; health goes first and sleep is important. but yeah... 
 * sakrecoer touches wood by putting hand to head
<eylul> aww
<chamois> sakrecoer do I have to keep the original logo? I mean: Can I use the 3d model?
<eylul> ok re the bug nicowe ran into btw, I can launch the program from command line after setting a profile in displayCal
<eylul> so I guess the problem is that.. *totally hazards a guess* there is no default color profile?
<sakrecoer> eylul: sounds absolutely logic indeed :D
<sakrecoer> but well... i'll file the bug with my output from terminal so we remember :)
<eylul> I don't have the latest iso yet, but if you can sakrecoer I can add my workaround comment
<sakrecoer> awesome!
<eylul> (Ok plot twist. it is not setting the profile that fixes things, it is having displaycal running) 
<eylul> (gives up and just adds to the bug)
<sakrecoer> right, this is the proper channel for it: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/dispcalgui/+bug/1632859
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1632859 in dispcalgui (Ubuntu) "Profile Loader does not start from the menu" [Undecided,Confirmed]
 * eylul copy pastes for record
<eylul> (12:33:24 AM) eylul: 1) launch displaycal-apply-profiles from terminal. fails
<eylul> (12:34:00 AM) eylul: 2) start displaycal from menu (displaycalgui I think?). while displaycal is on, the terminal command works without error
<eylul> (12:34:09 AM) eylul: 3) close the program error is back
<sakrecoer> [23:35:24] < sakrecoer> 1.) fails
<sakrecoer> [23:35:52] < sakrecoer> 2.) displaycalgui starts but while it is on, the  terminal command does nothing, not even an error  message as in 1.)
<sakrecoer> [23:36:21] < sakrecoer> 3.) still broken, but error message is back..
<sakrecoer> but the thing is this...
<sakrecoer> the software is made to measure your screen...
<sakrecoer> it might be so that you need to create a profile for it first...
<eylul> well I did select a profile from displaycal
<eylul> I think
<sakrecoer> ok..
<eylul> didn't change anything for me
<eylul> I am running an older version of iso, until the new one respins through
<eylul> ergo, asking for double checking
<sakrecoer> i cna't find any profiles..
<sakrecoer> i have "Auto (None)" or "None"
<sakrecoer> if i open the filebrowser, all i find in the discal folder is log files.
<sakrecoer> the "check online button" finds nothing
<eylul> menu -> graphics -> DisplayCal on top. there is a settings bit. there are some presets there. do they come up with color profiles?
<sakrecoer> and the "+" button wants me to plug a calorimeter
<eylul> (and color profiles are there)
<eylul> (if you look at the folder next to the settings, that folder contains a bunch of ICC profiles)
<eylul> that part is calibration
 * eylul is about 50% guessworking this
<sakrecoer> yeah, i see the menu you mention... picked a different entry in it...
<eylul> *nods*
<sakrecoer> but same as before: displaycal-apply-profiles in cli does nothing, but doesn't print any error message, so maybe robot is happy..
<eylul> that's what I thought but the other option is
<sakrecoer> hehe
<eylul> when displaycal is running maybe it does something 
<sakrecoer> i mean, something looks less broken, but i don't really get it..
<eylul> if it is not running it runs a separate command that requires dispwin (which btw runs fine on its own)
<sakrecoer> if only someone of us had one of those devices...
<eylul> (not quite sure what it does except demonstrating colors btw, which might be for a colorimeter)
 * eylul is completely out of her depth in this one
<eylul> that would be nice
<sakrecoer> yes... i'm sure that is what it does. the point with this software is to calibrate your screen and create aprofile for it.
<sakrecoer> so, in many ways, testing it without a calorimeter is a bit like testing swizz cheese without a knife.
<eylul> I suppose you COULD print something out
<eylul> then test it that way
<eylul> btw the 64bit iso has just built
<eylul> (sakrecoer, kryten, chimois, whoever else is still up and about and waiting for it)
<eylul> 32bit is ongoing
<sakrecoer> ye... both are now \o/ so begins the upload and tracker-burping 
<eylul> heh
<sakrecoer> finaly!
<sakrecoer> puh... zsyncing..
<eylul> kryten: did we remove krita back out from the distro?
#ubuntustudio-devel 2016-10-13
<chamois> sakrecoer Is it ok? http://pasteall.org/pic/index.php?id=107586
<Rosco2> Hi All. Anyone able to give the 32 bit ISO a spin?
<Rosco2> I have just tired twice in a VM, and it freezes at the Welcome screen
<Rosco2> s/tired/tried - but maybe the first is also true
<Rosco2> Release notes drafted:
<Rosco2> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/YakketyYak/ReleaseNotes/UbuntuStudio
<Rosco2> Just checking bug list & package versions
<Rosco2> Feel free to check for mistakes
<sakrecoer> hi Rosco2 i'll soon be home from work in 2 hours.. i'll try then.
<sakrecoer> yeah not so soon..
<sakrecoer> haha
<sakrecoer> trying to understand what happened with calligra in the end...? is it in? is it out? 
<sakrecoer> from -release this morning:
<sakrecoer> 08:37:15] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted  openfoam [amd64] (yakkety-proposed)  [4.0+dfsg1-3ubuntu1]
<sakrecoer> erhm.. wrong line hehe
<sakrecoer> doing this from my phone with my head full of work stuff still..
<Rosco2> krita was removed by infinity yesterday - not sure why
<Rosco2> calibre still seems to be in the seeds (publishing)
<Rosco2> But no krita
<sakrecoer> Rosco2: irclogs.ubuntu.com/2016/10/10/%23ubuntu-release.html
<sakrecoer> krytarik sent me that, it ecplains the thing 
<sakrecoer> search for calligra in the page and you night understand better than i do..
<sakrecoer> *might...
<sakrecoer> but... calligra is the old krita.. no? the one before 3.0? 
<sakrecoer> anyways, i really need to clear ny head a little before i throw myself in i think... i'll be back when i'm home but feel free to feed my backlog :)
<Rosco2> Haven't checked the log yet.
<Rosco2> But it appears that krita is dropped from the callibre source package in Debian
<Rosco2> It will be it's own source package
<Rosco2> https://packages.qa.debian.org/c/calligra/news/20160916T220058Z.html
<Rosco2> Launchpad is a pain these days trying to review changelogs
<Rosco2> just read irc log - Your bug is not quite right
<Rosco2> Best not to reopen a bug closed by an upload unless it was the wrong fix
<Rosco2> better to open a new bug
<Rosco2> Whoops - I was looking at wrong irc log & at this bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntustudio-menu/+bug/1616823/
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1616823 in ubuntustudio-menu (Ubuntu) "Graphics category needs to be overseen" [Undecided,In progress]
<Rosco2> OK I am confused calibre/calligra :-)
<Rosco2> OK - I have it. calligra has been removed from Yakkety because it was failing to build
<Rosco2> A new version is being worked on by KDE team but it won't make it for release
<Rosco2> They might get it in post-release
<Rosco2> I will update the release notes
<Rosco2> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntustudio-meta/+bug/1633129
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1633129 in ubuntustudio-meta (Ubuntu) "Add krita back to Graphics" [Undecided,New]
<Rosco2> Release notes updated with krita situation and version numbers bumped
<Rosco2> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/YakketyYak/ReleaseNotes/UbuntuStudio
<Rosco2> I would mark the amd64 image ready - but would prefer confirmation from another tester
<Rosco2> The 32 bit fails in VM on my laptop too (Virtual Box on Debian Jessie)
<Rosco2> I will go see if there is any food and hope magically that someone else can confirm ISOs working
<Rosco2> :-)
<nicowe> hello
<eylul> it could have been the new one
<eylul> sakrecoer: I am not entirely sure why you told them to not add it to the respin but oh well
<eylul> :)
<eylul> I can give a second confirm that the iso for 64bit works (at least on a VM install)
<sakrecoer> Rosco2: i386 installs prima here :)
<sakrecoer> writing from it..
<Rosco2> Excellent news
<Rosco2> eylul, A quick confirmation spin would be great
<eylul> oh no I mean it does work
<eylul> :)
<eylul> I tried it last night but forgot to put it in because.. got distracted with krita ;)
<sakrecoer> i haven't read all the backlog yet... about to have dinner, mama sakrecoer last night before travel back
<Rosco2> Ok - understand
 * eylul is adding the record now
<sakrecoer> but i will after dinner (and after having marked the test as passed
<eylul> do you guys need another VM install attempt with i386?
<Rosco2> It wouldn't hurt
<eylul> ok
<sakrecoer> yeah, i installed on disk...
<sakrecoer> (just saying... no pÃÂ¥articular reason..)
<Rosco2> sakrecoer, no need to test after dinner. I think there is enough evidence to mark them read after eylul does a quick confirm
<Rosco2> read > ready
<sakrecoer> \o/
<sakrecoer> I'll be back later, but for now: THANK YOU GUYS!!!!!
<sakrecoer> You are the bestest nicest!!
<sakrecoer> also: hi nicowe :)
<sakrecoer> and wb chamois: haven't had the time to look at your picture yet *shamepillowÃ* but i will after dinner: pinky promise!
<sakrecoer> ryl! o/
<eylul> bye sakrecoer!
<chamois> sakrecoer ok, enjoy your meal!
<eylul> rosco did you run into any issues on live CD that has ladi-tray and ladi player not working?
<Rosco2> eylul, that is new to me
<eylul> yeah
<eylul> I can't get the ladi player to run, if you still have the install can you double check?
<eylul> (and if you are not busy)
 * eylul runs into same problem with the install. (qjackctl runs fine)
<Rosco2> It was working when I had it uploaded in Debian :-)
<Rosco2> I will check. We may need to report a bug and work on it after release
<Rosco2> eulul, did it work on amd64?
<eylul> the problem I ran into was in amd64
<eylul> :D
<eylul> I am downloading the 32bit now. 
 * eylul was fiddling with that while waiting
<Rosco2> Clear
<eylul> ok it might be a bug with kvm then
<Rosco2> Just firing up a live session on laptop hardware now
 * eylul is trying to figure out why VMM doesn't give an option to have 32bit architecture
<eylul> rosco did you set the 32 bit as ready?
<eylul> nvm
<Rosco2> NOt yet - I was just waiting to see how you got on
<Rosco2> But I will if you are not getting anywhere with the VM
<Rosco2> eylul, no success here with ladi either
<eylul> ok. (looks like they did hit the release with yakkety, which was why I couldn't submit bug report. 32bit live cd is fine. installing now)
<Rosco2> icon in the tray reflects jack status, but none of the menu options do anything
<eylul> yeah exactly
<eylul> I can run gladish from menu
<eylul> I can't start ladi from menu
<eylul> ladi player
<eylul> its not like a giant problem considering there is alternatives all around but..
<eylul> something to look into probably post release so that we can either fix or remove them
<eylul> :/
<eylul> will file the bugs
<Rosco2> Excellent - thanks for your help.
<Rosco2> Will mark the release ready and sit down for a strong drink :-)
<Rosco2> Whoops - can't mark it ready. Like you say - Yakkety is already released anyway
<Rosco2> \o/
<eylul> hehehe
 * eylul is still testing the install just in case ;D 
 * eylul and also looking into the ladi bug
<eylul> and belated \o/
<eylul> Rosco2: if you are still around, could you confirm these two? :) https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/laditools/+bug/1633170
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1633170 in laditools (Ubuntu) "ladi player fails to launch" [Undecided,New]
<eylul> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/laditools/+bug/1633173
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1633173 in laditools (Ubuntu) "ladi-tray menu items to start player and session editor and settings do not work" [Undecided,New]
<eylul> (and belatedly the 32bit install is fine :D) 
<krytarik> Rosco2: Btw, since you are here, please fix up your recent change to -default-settings, so we don't get another LP #1617846.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1617846 in ubuntustudio-default-settings (Ubuntu) "desktop files for gnome color manager have not been removed" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1617846
<eylul> http://pad.ubuntu.com/4FDYvUeq1Q brainstorming pad for test cases, to avoid future problems similar to the way we had with krita. (I hope it is ok to use the ubuntupad for this) kryten
<Rosco2> Thanks krytarik: I don't know what happened there. The diff looks fine fine from 0.62 to 0.63. The diff from 0.61 to 0.62 shows the desktop files being removed.
<Rosco2> But the desktop files are still there in both tarballs (0.62 & 0.63)
<Rosco2> Will take a look
<Rosco2> eylul, Thanks for your help. Will followup on the laditools bug
<eylul> Rosco2 thank you as well!!! 
<Rosco2> Have you seen http://packages.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/361/builds/117793/testcases
<Rosco2> They have only been there for this release
<Rosco2> But noone really used them
<Rosco2> They could do with checking & updating
<Rosco2> Anyway - off to bed
<eylul> oh wow
<eylul> gnight rosco2!
<krytarik> eylul: There - dumped the seeds in there. :P
#ubuntustudio-devel 2016-10-14
<sakrecoer> hi
<sakrecoer> didn't make it back yesterday, solly..
<sakrecoer> chamois proposition is a bit far off typographicaly.
<sakrecoer> what do you guys think?
<sakrecoer> the glow is kindof neat, though, not sure abour it tbh. and we do have Woodmark already.
<sakrecoer> sorry to read about ladi.... makes me want to go back homr and test lol...
<sakrecoer> i'll look at the testcases at lunch.. if they look good i figure we should share the link all over www
<sakrecoer> will type a post for release on website tonight... maybe krytarik can check my spellung before i post it? 
 * sakrecoer crosses fingers.
<sakrecoer> off to digg out rent money from the office. happy friday y'all! 
<krytarik> sakrecoer: Sure can do - already updated the download page at least, ftm.
<studio-devel716> Has anyone noticed that Rosegarden cannot import audio files?
<studio-devel716> Seems related to https://sourceforge.net/p/rosegarden/bugs/1494/
<studio-devel716> Under 16.04.1 LTS Rosegarden also appears not to be linked against libsndfile...
<studio-devel716> More info here: https://sourceforge.net/p/rosegarden/bugs/1503/
<chamois> sakrecoer Is the boot logo fine?
<sakrecoer> hi chamois!
<sakrecoer> no... its not, its half way there, i susp3ct you can do better. my first question is:
<sakrecoer> can you read it?
<sakrecoer> my second question is a leadinf question: glow is nice, can glow be subtile?
<sakrecoer> by 'can you read it' i question the readability. we do have a woodmark established, so you can be lazy on it, or you can use it to soeak loud.
<krytarik> Woorrrdmark!
<sakrecoer> by 'can the glow be subtile' i acknowlege the beauty of gloow, but wonder about its efficiency
<sakrecoer> yes, word is bond prefarbly not decipherable :)http://youtu.be/7kDf_hqdEFI 
<sakrecoer> chamois: what i see is another proof of creativity, i think ubuntustudio needs a compromise between that (creativity) and esperanto (universal symbolic)
<sakrecoer> symboÃÂ¶ic is only televant if everyone knows the symbol
<sakrecoer> yeah..*symbolic and  *relevant 
<chamois> sakrecoer you're right I'll work on it. How many time do I have?
<sakrecoer> chamois: thank you for considering that! tbh, none of us gave you any hints about what and how. Nor did we tell you what techincal limitations might exist. I would say, the earilier the best. We need a definit version 3 moths before final realase of next cycle, so that is january. :)
<sakrecoer> feel free to present options as many times as you want until then :) 
<sakrecoer> PCX is a werid format https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PCX but it seems it might be possible to have PNG too... krytarik, can you help chamois and me regarding the techincal requirements for the boot image?
<krytarik> Well, it definitely has to be PCX anyway - although then I'd provide a PNG version alongside too.  And examples of how other flavors are doing it are here: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-cdimage/debian-cd/ubuntu/files/head:/data/yakkety/
<sakrecoer> chamois: never the less, in terms of actual graphics, we something that respects the actual Ubuntu Studio CoF (Circle Of Friends) and Woodmark
<sakrecoer> we *need
<chamois> Goodnight everybody!
<chamois> Ok I'll consider that. I'll send a new version as soon as I get new ideas
#ubuntustudio-devel 2016-10-15
<petergk> hello there
<petergk> I think it's quiet important if you work with music
<petergk> So I would like to ask/propose to put in fmit (free music instrument tuner) into to the music related apps, it's gpl-ed and full production proof
<petergk> I use it on a daily basis to tune instruments  (professionally) so I think it's a smart idea to put it on, not so big and very useful, objectively
<petergk> I hope somebody will like the idea
<petergk> the application is usually in repo
<petergk> thanks, I will be around
#ubuntustudio-devel 2018-10-08
<figillini> Hello All :)
#ubuntustudio-devel 2018-10-09
<tedge> The PikoPixel pixel-art editor has a new release, version 1.0 BETA9d, with fixes for several UI issues on Xfce.
<tedge> The new version is now in the Cosmic repository and in the Ubuntu Studio 18.10 daily build iso (as of yesterday).
<tedge> If you're testing an Ubuntu Studio 18.10 install from before yesterday, please do a software update/upgrade or download a current iso to get the updated PP version.
<tedge> Ubuntu Studio logo pixel-art, made with PikoPixel: https://twitter.com/PikoPixel/status/1049113724102090759
#ubuntustudio-devel 2018-10-10
<OvenWerks> hmm, "You can use libgtk3-nocss to make Gnome 3 apps use the window manager
<OvenWerks> theme under xfce (on Debian, at least: sudo apt install gtk3-nocsd).
<OvenWerks> It's also supposedly possible to add 'export GTK_CSD=0' to ~/.xsessionrc
<OvenWerks> to achieve the same result, though I haven't actually tried that.
<OvenWerks> That might be something to look into so that our theme or the user chosen theme is uniform on all applications.
<DalekSec> It uses a LD_PRELOAD library, so not a good idea to seed it.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2018-10-11
<OvenWerks> DalekSec: it doesn't seem to "just work" either
<DalekSec> Nor would it.
 * OvenWerks wishes gnome (or whoever) who just follow standards
<DalekSec> OvenWerks: They intend to make that the new standard.
<OvenWerks> it sucks
<OvenWerks> or at least it has a long way to go
<OvenWerks> DalekSec: even aside from the LD_PRELOAD it requires adding a file to the user's directory... ie adding something to /etc/skel/ so we would get bashed for that too.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2018-10-13
<tedge> Who's writing the US 18.10 release notes & blog post?
<tedge> I'd be happy to write the blurbs for PikoPixel, and I can also help with the blurbs on other topics.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2019-10-07
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: FYI: http://paste.ubuntu.com/p/Dhc3hHbFZc/
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Excellent. Let's hope Debian picks it up. Not sure who the packager is there.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2019-10-08
<sakrecoer> a pitty when that happens. Ralf can be extremly helpful, but only when in the right mood. :(
<Eickmeyer> sakrecoer: He's rearely in the right mood, and he's had plenty of second chances.
<Eickmeyer> At a certain point, I have to decide what's best for the community. He even tried gatekeeping me when I came onboard, so the last thing we need is for that to happen to anybody else.
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Are you and wonko collaborating on Controls? If so, I want him in this channel. He's been extremely helpful.
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: I had a firewire device come in the mail today... just need to get pcie card to plug it into. (and cable)
#ubuntustudio-devel 2019-10-09
<Eickmeyer> Oh, those are cheap. 
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: ^
<OvenWerks> Not too bad anyway. most have a via chipset, I want the TI if I can get it.
<OvenWerks> catia looks like it will soon be separate from cadence
<OvenWerks> It would be nice to have a stand alone patch bay. starting Carla up just for patch bay it a bit much.
<wonko> Eh, it doesn't bother me too much
<wonko> but I wouldn't argue against it either
<OvenWerks> wonko:  you missed the first line :)
<OvenWerks> 19:07 < OvenWerks> catia looks like it will soon be separate from cadence
<wonko> I don't think I've ever used catia?
<wonko> I don't remember, it's been more than a week
<wonko> :-D
<wonko> yeah, I used Claudia and Cadence
<wonko> Claudia is basically just Catia + session
<OvenWerks> old unmaintained session
<wonko> hey, I had no idea what I was doing. :)
<OvenWerks> I don't think anyone wanys to revive ladish
<Eickmeyer> Ladish can rot in a dark place. It's very buggy. 
<OvenWerks> Try write only memory...
<wonko> OvenWerks: Quick question. Is there a reason you didn't use something like configparser for the config file?
<OvenWerks> wonko cause I have never heard of it?
<OvenWerks>  :)
<wonko> Can I switch to that instead? :)
<OvenWerks> config and reconfig should get merged and probably configstart should deal with only some params changed
<wonko> I'm trying to clean up that nightmare known as the config stuff in this code.
<OvenWerks> so long as no breakage happens
<OvenWerks> is it an easy incude?
<OvenWerks> (ie make sure /debian/control has the right include
<wonko> yeah, I've been trying to just re-use your code but it's getting kinda gunky to do so. I'm going to see if I can do it cleaner with configparser
<wonko> it's python standard library
<wonko> I will have to support legacy though
<wonko> but I'll get it writing out to your new location (and reading it back in if it exists) using configparser
<wonko> is launchpad borked?
<wonko> wonko@deepthought:~/Documents/projects/ubuntustudio-controls (master)*$ git pull
<wonko> fatal: unable to access 'https://git.launchpad.net/ubuntustudio-controls/': The requested URL returned error: 503
<wonko> OvenWerks: Is there a reason the SysInfo class exists to your knowledge? It's bad for in python to make a class of what are standalone static methods.
<wonko> s/bad for/bad form/
 * OvenWerks is not on his dev computer right now and so is not sure.
<wonko> doesn't need to be answered right away. I'm going to close my eyes and try to not look at all the wrongness and focus on config for now. :-D
<OvenWerks> wonko: one thing to remember is that this started out as python 2 and some things maybe the way they are for that reason... or because I found python 2 docs to refer to.
<wonko> I'll try to be nice. :)
<Eickmeyer> wonko: Can you link me to your launchpad profile so I can add you to the ubuntustudio-dev group? 
<Eickmeyer> I consider you an official part of the team now.
<Eickmeyer> It'll allow you to push commits.
<OvenWerks> wonko: almost everything above the class ubuntustudiocontrols predates my messing around with it.
<OvenWerks> So class SysInfo is from an olde version that only installed /etc/security/limits.d/audio.conf (Ithink it is) and made sure th euser was in the audio group. I have never written anything similar since.
<wonko> Ok, I'll make those just standalone static methods then
<OvenWerks> no problem.
<wonko> Eickmeyer: https://launchpad.net/~bhechinger
<wonko> and thanks. I appreciate the trust. :)
<OvenWerks> wonko: autojack is mine as a rewrite from the bash script I used before on my family's computers
<OvenWerks> I will wait till you have made changes before I continue
<wonko> I haven't looked at that one yet. I'll let you know how it is when I get to it. :)
<OvenWerks> autojack is where the good stuff happens. controls just sets up the config file and signals to autojack to use the new config.
<Eickmeyer> wonko: Welcome to the team. :)
<wonko> Eickmeyer: Thanks!
<Eickmeyer> I figured since you and OvenWerks are working so hard and collaborating on Controls, that we just make it official.
<wonko> I certainly appreciate it.
<wonko> XDEV is a pain. :)
<wonko> OvenWerks: https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/jKscvsdjK5/
<wonko> The new save file format
<wonko> Looks suspciously like the old format. :)
<wonko> Eickmeyer: What's the trick to authenticating to do a git push?
<wonko> oh, wait
<wonko> you can't push via https?
<OvenWerks> Whats the default for? Just automaticly generated?
<wonko> configparser supports multiple sections
<wonko> it needs at least one, which is default
<wonko> in this case because I didn't think it needed a different name
<wonko> later on we can break the config file up logically if we see fit
<wonko> branch configparser pushed up with the changes to controle
<wonko> controls
<wonko> need to do autojack next
<wonko> Are there plans to deprecate the old config file at some point? That would be nice. We could axe a bunch of ugly code. :)
<OvenWerks> so you mean the old location?
<wonko> yeah
<OvenWerks> not before the 18.04 LTS has died.
<wonko> https://git.launchpad.net/ubuntustudio-controls/tree/usr/bin/ubuntustudio-controls?h=configparser#n199
<wonko> that big if/elif block is replaced by: self.config.read(c_file)
<wonko> much easier on the eyes. :)
<OvenWerks> I would expect that.
<wonko> when's EOS for 18.04?
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: ^^??
<Eickmeyer> EOL for 18.04 is April 2021 for flavors, 2023 for regular Ubuntu support.
<OvenWerks> in autojack it needs to be different. We need to fist save the old config parameters then read in the new ones and check what has changed.
<Eickmeyer> Easy way to check: !18.04
<Eickmeyer> !bionic
<ubottu> Ubuntu 18.04 LTS (Bionic Beaver) is the 28th release of Ubuntu and the current LTS release. Download at https://www.ubuntu.com/download - Release Notes: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BionicBeaver/ReleaseNotes
<Eickmeyer> Hmmm.... I know there's a command for this.
<Eickmeyer> !18.04
<Eickmeyer>  Â¯\_(ã)_/Â¯
<OvenWerks> wonko: there are some things where a config change does not have to restart jack
<wonko> OvenWerks: Yeah, I noticed that. I'll make sure to maintain that.
<wonko> what does autojack do? watch the config file for changes?
<wonko> I can just read the code too. :)
<OvenWerks> no it has a callback from dbus... well 5 or 6 of them
<OvenWerks> so even if there is no config file change it can restart the world or things like that. the dbus set up is right at the bottom at startup.
<wonko> So autojack doesn't write the config file ever, riight?
<OvenWerks> never
<OvenWerks> it only reads
<wonko> can it be safely assumed controls has run first to make sure the new config file exists?
<wonko> or is that an unsafe assumption?
<OvenWerks> no
<wonko> bleh, ok
<OvenWerks> if a person upgrades, it will have run first
<wonko> I'll put the config migration code in there as well then
<OvenWerks> or even first run.. because it autostarts at session start
<wonko> ok, April 2021 can't come fast enough. :)
<wonko> anyway, time for me to toodle off for the day. I'll pick this back up tomorrow morning.
<wonko> I should have all the changes ready for you then
<OvenWerks> So it has to A) have defaults, B) read old stuff,
<wonko> yeah, i'll definitely do that
<OvenWerks> and C) convert the old to new
<OvenWerks> wonko the first time controls runs, if it finds and old audojack it kills it.
<wonko> ok, so both need to read old and convert (or create new if it doesn't exist)
<OvenWerks> wonko: controls pings autojack and if it doesn't get an answer that includes the right version, it sends a quit message and starts a new one
<OvenWerks> autojack just reads but converts to new variables
<wonko> How atomic is the autojack/controls interaction? Meaning, whichever one runs first will definitely have had time to write the new config file if needed before the other tries to read?
<OvenWerks> both jsut read old formats if they exist
<wonko> right, but only if the new file doesn't exist yet
<OvenWerks> yes.
<OvenWerks> controls removes the old one before writing... should make sure it is just before writing or just after I guess
<wonko> so my concern is the situation where the new file doesn't exist yet and needs to be converted from old. Will whichever program that starts up first definitely have written the new version before the other one starts up and reads?
<OvenWerks> autojack run at session start
<wonko> I just worry about those two colliding
<OvenWerks> so it always runs first
<wonko> anyway, being paged for dinner, talk later
<OvenWerks> ok
<wonko> I had a thought while eating. Wouldn't it make more sense to have the config file conversion as part of the deb package post script instead of relying on the apps to handle it?
<OvenWerks> It is generally frowned on to mess with files within the user's directory.
<OvenWerks> (during an install or removal
<OvenWerks> wonko: to me saving a few lines of code is not such a big deal.
<OvenWerks> A few if statements can solve a lot stuff
<wonko> Oh right, user dirs
<wonko> Duh, that wouldn't work anyway
#ubuntustudio-devel 2019-10-10
<wonko> Hmm, I've broken something but I don't know what. Boo.
<wonko> I mean, I really don't understand how I've broken it
<wonko> oh, I might need to actually update autojack first
<wonko> I'll do that then I guess
<OvenWerks> Are you still working in a branch? or is it in main now.
<wonko> branch
<OvenWerks> (master)
<wonko> I won't merge it into master until it's tested and even then i'll do a merge request and get it reviewed
<OvenWerks> did it stop working on the last commit?
<wonko> You know, that's a good question. It may not be my fault at all. :)
<wonko> I didn't think to test master before my changes
<wonko> let me do that now
<OvenWerks> well my thought is you have three commits... did you test each one?
<wonko> Oh, it does seem to be working
<wonko> it just takes an awfully long time for the DSP load to start showing Running and an actual percentage
<OvenWerks> you seem to have reformatted everything to 4 spaces rather than 2
<OvenWerks> please fix that
<wonko> That's in direct violation of PEP8. :-D
<OvenWerks> I don't care
<wonko> that is a valid answer.
<wonko> let me see if I can convince PyCharm to do 2 instead of 4
<OvenWerks> At this point I can't tell what has changed and what hasn't
<OvenWerks> It would be ok to make one commit that only reformats and nothing else and then make other changes, but as it is, it's impossible to read the diff file.
<OvenWerks> It looks like everything has changed
<OvenWerks>  and actual code changed are lost.
<wonko> ah, yes, good poing
<wonko> point
<wonko> put it to 2 for now
<OvenWerks> However, even that said I set things to two spaces because it is easier for  my use
<wonko> although I wonder how many other changes are purely formatting changes that pycharm did on my behalf.
<wonko> I'm ok with 2 if that's what you want to do, PEP8 be dammed (although I do my best to try and follow it if I can)
<wonko> but if you are willing to switch to 4 I can do a quick formatting commit to master so we can compare reasonably
<OvenWerks> WHat is PEP8? where did it come from?
<wonko> PEP8 is the style guide for python written by the python folks
<OvenWerks> to be honest I like tabs better
<wonko> I'm with you on that one, but everyone seems to be against us for some reason
<OvenWerks> but people don't like to use one char instead of two or four
<wonko> and allow them to set indent to whatever suits them instead of forcing indent on people
<wonko> I hate non-tab indents
<wonko> but it's just one of those battles I've given up fighting
<OvenWerks> the C/C++ world has no problem with it. It means each person can set their editor to whatever tab size they like
<wonko> Coming from C is probably why we share that view. :)
<wonko> If you'd like we can swtich to tabs and give the middle finger to the python community. :)
<wonko> but, the entire reason for using python is for others to be able to read it, so we should probably try to stick to their formatting as much as possible (within reason of course)
<OvenWerks> the people who review for release don't like tabs either... otherwise it would be tabs already.
<OvenWerks> I can change indent to 4 I guess. But it may not help much unless you recommit.
<OvenWerks> It could get messy... maybe rebase will be ok.
<OvenWerks> OK, master is now four spaces... ahh but you have changed everything to 2...
<wonko> :-D
<OvenWerks> it would be best now if you do a git rebase master
<OvenWerks> (you may have to pull master first)
<OvenWerks> other wise yu would have to compress your commits into one
<OvenWerks> and if things are not working right that could be a problem.
<OvenWerks> the reason there is a delay when you start may be that autojack is not running (or the wrong version) when you first tried it and there is an extra delay while it sends a quitesignal out and restarts autojack
<OvenWerks> The second time you restart jack should happen much faster
<OvenWerks> wonko: so if you are in your branch, you have to git stash, git branch master, git pull, git branch <your branch>, git rebase master.
<OvenWerks> then git push your branch may with --hard
<OvenWerks> That is the only way I can think of to be able to read your code
<OvenWerks> Unless you are going to compress everything into one commit... then I can back peddle my commit on master.
<OvenWerks> wonko: which way are we doing things? I can also pull your branch and do that here if it would be better
<OvenWerks> BTW, the edit I am using (Geany) has a nice setting for indents called "Detect from content" your's may have similar
<wonko> I'll fix my branch in a little bit. Hang tight.
<OvenWerks> cool
<wonko> Ugh, rebase/merge is not going well. :)
<OvenWerks>  :)
<OvenWerks> have you ever used git gui?
<OvenWerks> It gives you good feedback about what the diff is from the last commit. and points out things like unitended changes, trialing white space etc.
<OvenWerks> trailing even...
<wonko> I haven't but I might need to. Wait, you switched to 4 spaces, right? Maybe I should switch back to 4 first which would probably help out.
<Eickmeyer> I use git cola. I find it more intuitive than git gui.
<OvenWerks> ok
 * wonko sets indent at 3 just to be a dick
<wonko> ok, git diff looks WAY better with indent set back to 4 because it's no longer clashing with the indent in master
<wonko> I started quite the shitstorm, did't I? :-D
<OvenWerks> it is just a part of colaboration...
<wonko> Ok, so rebase still doesn't go well
<wonko> it says there's a conflict with a HUGE chunk of code
<wonko> and both versions are not at all my code, so I'm not even sure the best way to proceed now.
<OvenWerks> yikes?
<OvenWerks> which file(s)
<wonko> controls
<wonko> the only one I've worked on so far
<wonko> I've pushed the configparser branch
<wonko> so that's up to date now if you care to poke at it
<OvenWerks> trying a rebase here
<OvenWerks> Mostly more reformatting stuff... like splitting long lines
<OvenWerks> What I don't get is there is a huge part that doesn't seem to have any changes that show a diff
<OvenWerks> Your editor doesn't like call (whatever)... it has changed them to call(whatever)
<OvenWerks>  :P
<OvenWerks> So it is not just space numbers, but an overall set of changes. I am mostly oking them.
<OvenWerks> wonko: ok first problem is that controls chokes on the old config file.
<wonko> yeah, make sure it's actually what you want
<wonko> because I don't think it's merging correctly
<wonko> in the part where it reads in the legacy config it should be sticking those into the configparser but post rebase it looks like it's reverted to sticking those into the class variables
<OvenWerks> I have taken back the last two commits (two spaces and then four spaces) and am working with that.
<wonko> probably a wise idea
<wonko> let me paste some examples so you know what I'm talking about. Otherwise you'll rebase out all my work. :)
<wonko> What it should be: https://gist.github.com/bhechinger/6450c488299db163a6d90aa26d3af970
<wonko> What it shouldn't be: https://gist.github.com/bhechinger/a12f567e42fe289e39273f05f8db00c0
<OvenWerks> Ya it looks right
<OvenWerks> wonko: I found out why it didn't work :)
<wonko> Woo! What was it?
<OvenWerks> wonko: you assumed that if the config file is in the new spot it is new format and if it is in the old spot it should be old format but because I had moved the file already mione has an old format in the new spot and fails.
<OvenWerks> wonko: so that is ok. no one else should be in that place. let me try a move instead.
<wonko> yeah, that was my thinking. It's ok to assume new format for new file because that technically doesn't exist anywhere yet. :)
<OvenWerks> except in my system... ok that works.
<wonko> You're special. :)
<OvenWerks> There is one little thing I want to fix the a2j check box should default to on. and doesn't so I need to find out why. I thought I had fixed it, but I think not.
<wonko> yeah, I noticed I needed to keep checking that when I would blow away config files and start over
<OvenWerks> wonko: do you want me to push the whole thing back to your branch or onto master?
<wonko> If you're ok with it going to master that's fine
<wonko> just keep in mind autojack currently doesn't do new config file
<wonko> got sidetracked with this other stuff. :)
<OvenWerks> That is my thinking too, so maybe your branch now that we are fully rebased to master.
<wonko> ok, sounds good
<wonko> I'll pull it tomorrow morning and knock out autojack changes
<wonko> then that should be done
<wonko> then I can start work on what I originally wanted to work on. :)
<OvenWerks>  Your editor will probably "fix" a few things I put back before I realized why it was doing what it was doing... things like spliting lines so they fit in the editor window and adding blanklines before the calls
<wonko> yeah, it's trying to conform to PEP8 as much as it can.
<OvenWerks> you may need to reclone or pull -hard or force or whtever
<wonko> ok, i'll keep that in mind
<OvenWerks> Everything looks mostly ok... I would draw you attention to line 526 in controls... zdev should self.def_config['XDEV'] but should look like a list ( ["first", "second", "etc."] )
<OvenWerks> even if it has nothing (default) or only one item
<OvenWerks> So maybe pull controls and autojack into your editor and let it "fix" things (they fix cats you know) and recommit, then work.
<OvenWerks> It appears your editor will fix things every time should I make any "mistakes". So those commits should be listed as "NO-OP: reformating"
<OvenWerks> So anyone looking knows there are no opperational changes
<OvenWerks> Ah, I figgured it out. self.zdev doesn't exist if there is no config file to begin with.
<OvenWerks> I will have a few fixes shortly. wonko.
<wonko> Ok, cool
<OvenWerks> So I will have to do some more testing on the xdev-zdev thing. and you will run into the same problem with pulse-in:"name1 name2"
<wonko> Yeah, it kinda makes me want to use a config file format that supports proper data formats like json
<OvenWerks> taking a config string and making it a list
<OvenWerks> json ew
<wonko> yeah, I don't love that solution
<wonko> either thing there actually. :)
<OvenWerks> The simple thing to do is to have an internal variable that is a list and to read into that
<wonko> that's what I did with zdev
<OvenWerks> converting back and forth from lists to strings is not hard
<wonko> zdev gets built from XDEV and on save gets converted back to a string
<OvenWerks> so pulse_in and out will be the same... and ZDEV will go through a similar transition... well probably different to get the same thing
<wonko> pulse_in/out will be a bit more work, but yeah
<OvenWerks> zdev needs to have the actual hw:device but zdev names will be the variable list that goes with it so people can change their USB name from "Device,0,0-in" to "USB_Mic"
<OvenWerks> (yes I do have an actual USB audio dongle that calls itself "Device"
<OvenWerks> wonko: I think once you get the configparser working in autojack, we should do a merge to master. then you can work on the pulse names thing.
<wonko> sounds like a plan
<OvenWerks> before we merge to maser please run dch in the root directory and add a line.
<wonko> you'll have to translate that to english for me, please. :)
<OvenWerks> dch = debian changelog edit
<OvenWerks> hopefully editor on your system points to some reasonable editor like nano.
<wonko> nano is not a reasonable editor. :)
<OvenWerks> The reason I need you to do that is that it puts your name in there
<OvenWerks> would you like ed instead?
<wonko> vi
<OvenWerks> vi is fine if you like it. anyway you just need to add a one line thing to say switched to configparser
<OvenWerks> normally dch adds your name and a * after the * put your "switched to configparser"
<OvenWerks> I would not worry about all the format changes as they are no op
<wonko> ok
<OvenWerks> I can do the merge or you can depending on how you feel.
<wonko> as long as you've tested it before I merge I'll be happy to do it
<OvenWerks> so far it is working
<wonko> I still need to do autojack. :)
<OvenWerks> ya I know.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2019-10-11
<wonko> OvenWerks: I got totally sidetracked today. I'll try to get to autojack Monday.
<OvenWerks> no worries
<wonko> Free labor. You get what you pay for. :-)
<Eickmeyer> FYI, I know this doesn't affect us, but Final Freeze is upon us. RCs should be out within the next couple days.
<Eickmeyer> I'm a little irked my FFe didn't go through (it wasn't even addressed), but whatever.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2019-10-12
<OvenWerks> wonko: auto jack does not work (yet) with the new style autojackrc created by configparser because configparser writes lower case. This doesn't seem to be a problem for configparser reading uppper case. But until autojack is fixed, autojack doesn't work.
